# APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump.



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

From another thread:


_Quote, originally posted by *AutotechRD* »_Production pumps will be ready to ship by the end of August. Call us for pricing info... *They will be under half the price of the competition*, and about 1/10th. the cost of the Bosch Motorsports pump!


Discuss. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

My questions (pardon my ignorance, I really know very little):
*APR*
1. Will your software work with other companies pumps? _probably not a straight forward answer_
2. Will your pumps work with another companies software? _also probably not a straight forward answer_
*Autotech*
1. What sort of gains are you expecting?
2. What software upgrades (companies) will support your pump?
3. Why/how is it half the price of APR's setup?
*General*
1.Why are they so expensive? Walbro setups for the 1.8t are DIRT CHEAP. Please school me.
2. How is fuel consumption affected? I would imagine it would drop significantly when getting on the throttle hard, however during normal city/highway driving, can one expect to see similar MPG's to a stock setup?
3. Currently are there any other known setups in production?
4. Lastly, everything is DSG friendly, right?








*Thoughts*
I pretty much want this to be a pissing match. I want to hear each company piss out exactly why their product is better and what not. I'm a fan of what ever company supports it's work by saying what makes it the best, supports customers by answering their questions, and lastly puts in the leg work to prove that it really has been developed to be reliable.









_Modified by Arin at 9:35 PM 7-17-2007_


_Modified by Arin at 9:37 PM 7-17-2007_


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Subscribed...


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## 20th-Hole (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
1.Why are they so expensive? Walbro setups for the 1.8t are DIRT CHEAP. Please school me.


Part of the reason is you have to start with a factory pump which is ~$300. Also the modified components appear to be precision parts.


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## Davespeed (May 4, 2004)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (20th-Hole)*

We will see how long this thread lasts....

Pushes pocporn button on microwave...








Ding


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## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Davespeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Davespeed* »_We will see how long this thread lasts....

Pushes pocporn button on microwave...








Ding









Keith is asleep now.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Davespeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Davespeed* »_We will see how long this thread lasts....

Pushes pocporn button on microwave...








Ding









It's a totally valid thread and hopefully will inform many people. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Davespeed (May 4, 2004)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
It's a totally valid thread and hopefully will inform many people. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Agreed, but it is a little early when the public has not even used them other than testing.


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*

Link to autotech one?? Its not on their site? Pricing?? Max hp support?


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

bit ealry for this thread, since noone actually has the apr pump and there are no realease notes on the autotech.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*

I will wait for Autotech to post more information but we have been running one of their pumps on our manual A3 for a while now. Several thousand miles on the pump with no issues and they have many thousand on their test vehicles also. We wrote some special test software to see what kind of fuel was available and the results were amazing. 110bar requested and met 10:1 AF held at 25psi boost spikes in the low rpm range with ZERO fueling issues.
I will let Autotech explain why they are able to do theirs for so much cheaper. 
Fact is it works and works well.
Our test car is no longer on the stock turbo so hopefully we can get some other cars on the pump in the near future and get some more information and testing with our software.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I will wait for Autotech to post more information but we have been running one of their pumps on our manual A3 for a while now. Several thousand miles on the pump with no issues and they have many thousand on their test vehicles also. We wrote some special test software to see what kind of fuel was available and the results were amazing. 110bar requested and met 10:1 AF held at 25psi boost spikes in the low rpm range with ZERO fueling issues.
I will let Autotech explain why they are able to do theirs for so much cheaper. 
Fact is it works and works well.
Our test car is no longer on the stock turbo so hopefully we can get some other cars on the pump in the near future and get some more information and testing with our software.

Only 110bar request? The fuel rail is capable of holding 130bar before the pressure release valve opens. In fact, quite a few SIIB owners are seeing close to that 130bar limit (myself seeing 128.3bar) on the stock fuel pump.
I would certainly like to see their pump be pushed to more strenuous limits. What do the injector on-times look like with the increased boost, richer tuning and 110bar request?
Dave


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_From another thread:
Discuss. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

My questions (pardon my ignorance, I really know very little):
*APR*
1. Will your software work with other companies pumps? _probably not a straight forward answer_
*There is ems changes required to run a larger bore pump to ensure proper drivability. If other's pumps are the same stroke and bore, then yes.*
2. Will your pumps work with another companies software? _also probably not a straight forward answer_
*There is ems changes required to run a larger bore pump to ensure proper drivability. If other's software are calibrated to the same specs required for our fuel pump, then yes.*
*Autotech*
1. What sort of gains are you expecting?
2. What software upgrades (companies) will support your pump?
3. Why/how is it half the price of APR's setup?
*General*
1.Why are they so expensive? Walbro setups for the 1.8t are DIRT CHEAP. Please school me.
*The tolerances associated with the manufacturing process and the quality control processes we have instituted reflect a significant expense. Starting with a $300 oem peice doesn't help either.*
2. How is fuel consumption affected? I would imagine it would drop significantly when getting on the throttle hard, however during normal city/highway driving, can one expect to see similar MPG's to a stock setup?
*AFR and Brake Specific Fuel Consumption and calibration affect mpg more than the size of a pump. Adding our pump will not detract from mpg performance at all.*
3. Currently are there any other known setups in production?
4. Lastly, everything is DSG friendly, right?








*Yup!*
*Thoughts*
I pretty much want this to be a pissing match. I want to hear each company piss out exactly why their product is better and what not. I'm a fan of what ever company supports it's work by saying what makes it the best, supports customers by answering their questions, and lastly puts in the leg work to prove that it really has been developed to be reliable.









_Modified by Arin at 9:35 PM 7-17-2007_

_Modified by Arin at 9:37 PM 7-17-2007_


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (AutotechRD)*

Sorry for "Calling out" competitors... I was more or less interested in seeing eachothers products. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks for the info!


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## mikes96GTI (Jan 22, 2003)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*

very nice, subscribed


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## bigred35 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (mikes96GTI)*

Yeah for Autotech! At least there is another solution to the problem now. 
Also, a solution that will *not* burn a hole in my wallet quicker than a $20 in my pocket at a Vegas strip club!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (bigred35)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigred35* »_
Also, a solution that will *not* burn a hole in my wallet quicker than a $20 in my pocket at a Vegas strip club!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









If you know the girls, that $20 will last a little longer.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Sincity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sincity* »_
If you know the girls, that $20 will last a little longer.


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## bigred35 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (prodigymb)*

Checkers at Crazy Horse! She could rub the ink off that $20 with her @ss faster than you could remember what pocket you put it in!
Can't wait for SEMA 2007!!!!


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## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

Price aside, I'll be going with the company whose pump put out 420bhp on a street-friendly, track-hungry SEMA GTI...
With this level of technology, you get what you pay for...this company's results speak loud and clear! -mcs


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I'll be going with whatever pump solves fuel cuts at the cheapest price IF i happen to encounter them with my APR Stage 2 setup.


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## bigred35 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

I would rather buy the cheaper model and put my money somewhere else. Just cause they built a SEMA car, that doesn't mean it's worth more money.


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (bigred35)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigred35* »_I would rather buy the cheaper model and put my money somewhere else. Just cause they built a SEMA car, that doesn't mean it's worth more money.

we do assemble the pumps which is a very delicate process in a clean room and test each one on a specialized test bench.
From APR, you get a new pump assembled by professionals and tested to verify operation! Pump failure due to improper assembly may result in severe engine damage if fuel is able to leak into the engine oil which is a possibility from an improper assembly.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Excellent info and input so far guys! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Pump failure due to improper assembly may result in severe engine damage if fuel is able to leak into the engine oil which is a possibility from an improper assembly.









Come on out and say it: the car will burn!


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Sincity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sincity* »_
Come on out and say it: the car will burn!









It wont burn, the engine will blow up causing Total Destruction of the World!! Not just the City, The World Sincity! The World!


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_
It wont burn, the engine will blow up causing Total Destruction of the World!! Not just the City, The World Sincity! The World!

















wanna know why my previous cars engine is apart and equipped with new shiny pistons? one of my forged pistons melted due to lean fuel issue in one of the cylinders due o an injector failure and the same thing happened again when fuel problem was caused by a faulty Walbro 255lph fuel pump this time. i'll dig up pictures of the engine afterwards, block cracked.


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## goin2fast (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
we do assemble the pumps which is a very delicate process in a clean room 

What is the classification of this "clean room". http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by goin2fast at 6:16 PM 7-18-2007_


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

I know, I know...it was a joke.


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## Sp00nman (Apr 16, 2005)

*Re: (sasha18T)*

subscribed!


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## AutotechRD (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*

iThread strikes again... for those of you that didn't get the chance to read my post answering Arin's questions, I am available via IM for answers. Apperantly I made a comercial post so my answers were deleted from this thread.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (AutotechRD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutotechRD* »_iThread strikes again... for those of you that didn't get the chance to read my post answering Arin's questions, I am available via IM for answers. Apperantly I made a comercial post so my answers were deleted from this thread.









You should just become an advertiser like all the other companies who PAY to post on this forum.
Dave


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## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (AutotechRD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutotechRD* »_ Apperantly I made a comercial post so my answers were deleted from this thread.









Can you change the wording so it is a Technical Post instead? We all know who you are and which product you represent. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Autotech doesn't sponsor the Forum so they may bring out lower cost products.










_Modified by Sincity at 10:36 AM 7-19-2007_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Sincity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sincity* »_
Can you change the wording so it is a Technical Post instead? We all know who you are and which product you represent. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Autotech doesn't sponsor the Forum so they may bring out lower cost products.









Autotech used to sponsor the forums . . . not sure why they stopped.
Dave


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Autotech used to sponsor the forums . . . not sure why they stopped.
Dave

They continue to sponsor but, for some reason AutotechRD's account was not enabled as a advertiser. That is currently being remedied.


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## AutotechRD (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (iThread)*

iThread is correct, it was my fault! I was unaware that I needed to have a certain avatar. Thanks for lookin' out.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Apparently I spoke too soon...edited.


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## Faerus (May 7, 2006)

I still don't see Autotech's response.


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Faerus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Faerus* »_I still don't see Autotech's response.


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected]) » « » 8:05 PM 7-19-2007 

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] » 

See what happens when I go out of town! The marketing material gets all out of whack! 7 microns is not a tolerance, it is something else. Either way it shouldn't be on any marketing material. Please ignore. I am not going to give away our actual tolerances as those are proprietary but I will say that they are far tighter than any tolerances being quoted by anyone on these forums. (The tolerances vary based on what part and dimension you are looking at but the tight tolerances are really, really tight!) Naturally these tolerance are well within the capabilities of our manufacturing partner but it still isn't cheap! The less critical parts are made in house on our Mazak lathe.
As for cost, there are reasons. First of all, if we just wanted to release a handful of parts we could have done this last year. The design had already been tested for thousands of miles at that point and was proven. The issue with this product is ensuring that every single pump installed is 100% because a single bad part can spell disaster. QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY! Anyone here who is familiar with quality control especially when dealing with highly critical, incredibly precise parts understands this problem.
Let me briefly explain what will happen if a high pressure pump fails. These are not "scare tactics". This is an honest explanation of the damage that can occur if one of these pumps go bad! There are several scenarios and none are particularly pretty. In the best scenario, the fuel pump will simply seize on the down stroke. This will simply cause the engine to stall. The fuel pump can be removed and replaced. Another scenario would be the fuel pump seizing on the up stroke. This is a lot worse. This will cause a mechanical failure of the either the pump body, retaining bolts or it will break the intake camshaft in half (remember, the high pressure pump is directly driven off of the intake camshaft.) We have never tested this failure so I can't tell you which one will break first but in any case one of them will. Either of these scenarios can happen if the plunger to barrel clearance is not perfect or if there is some other geometric fault in the assembly. This is not something that can be verified by eye or by feel. We prevent these two situations by certifying ever single plunger/barrel assembly and by testing every single pump that leaves our facility. If there is a problem, we will catch it! Every single pump endures a testing cycle that includes being run at engine redline and full system pressure.
Another potential high pressure pump failure is leakage of fuel into the engine. This is a potentially catastrophic failure. Since the pump is cam driven, one side of the fuel pump has direct access to the engine's oiling system. If fuel leaks past the fuel pump into the engine, the fuel can dilute the engine oil. The driver may have no clue that this is occuring until it is too late. It does not take a tremendous amount of fuel to dilute the engine oil to the point that the oil loses its lubrication properties. When this occurs you can loses bearings, camshafts, lifters, turbochargers- basically time for a new engine. How can this occur? Very simply. A slight error during assembly and the seal is damaged. A faulty seal can also do this. Even just torquing the retaining nut to the wrong torque can distort the bore of the pump just enough to cause a failure. A tiny amount of extra clearance on the plunger/barrel and the seal won't be able to hold back the pressure (remember, one side of the piston can see up to almost 2000 psi.) There is only one way to verify that this won't happen. Test the pumps before they are put on cars!
It has been stated that the fuel pump parts are so easy to replace, so why not let the end user do it? Why don't hard drive manufacturers sell replacement platters for do it yourself installation? Heck, there is only like four screws holding a hard drive together? The answer is simple- it is way, way to easy to screw it up and the implications are potentially disastrous. And even if you didn't screw it up you don't know for absolute sure that the pump is good until you put it on the car and test it. We found this concept absolutely entirely unacceptable. Believe me, if we thought it was acceptable we would have done it- it would have eliminated a great deal of work in testing and certifying the pumps and we could definitely have sold the pumps for less (and probably many more of them)!
Our high pressure fuel pump tester takes care of the problem of verifying the pumps. This was a large engineering undertaking! I won't bore you with too many of the details (we will write an article on the tester soon) but all of the mechanicals and electronics are custom. It is an impressive machine. This was by far the most difficult portion of this project.
Anyways, every pump is tested and we have enacted numerous quality measures to ensure that we will have a 100% success rate with these pumps so that you guys won't have any problems. Every pump begins with a brand new OEM pump. This affects the cost of course. In the future we hope to have a rebuild program where people can send in their original pumps and we perform the modifications. This will help cost. We will also work to get the cost down in other areas as we ramp the production quantities up.
I hope I haven't scared anyone away from a high pressure pump upgrade. I am 100% confident in our product. It really is a great upgrade and it paves the way for many more exciting performance upgrades in the future!


Here's one from us!


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## bigred35 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Here's one from us!

And the point?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (bigred35)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigred35* »_
And the point? 

kinda that brett's reply seems to have been over looked a little was all!


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## bigred35 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Oh. That's true.


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## alf_ftw (Jan 2, 2007)

he asked for autotechs response.


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## MarylandGuy (Dec 16, 2003)

*Re: (alf_ftw)*

I would like to see Autotech's original response (which was deleted) too!
Paul


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (MarylandGuy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MarylandGuy* »_I would like to see Autotech's original response (which was deleted) too!
Paul

I'm pretty sure Autotech started this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3345573 in response to the post delete!


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## MarylandGuy (Dec 16, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Thanks Keith! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Paul


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## dubbkidd (Mar 10, 2006)

i have a fpr laying around at home that i have no use for because i need the sensor on the top of it to replace the one on my car because it had cracked due to the engine cover cracking it..if i were to ship thhe fpr to either apr or autotech would i beable to get it modified at a cheaper price than to buy it outright?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (dubbkidd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubbkidd* »_i have a fpr laying around at home that i have no use for because i need the sensor on the top of it to replace the one on my car because it had cracked due to the engine cover cracking it..if i were to ship thhe fpr to either apr or autotech would i beable to get it modified at a cheaper price than to buy it outright?

fpr as in fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump?
Is it in brand new condition?


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## dubbkidd (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

fuel pressure regulator...the one u show in ur ad..and its brand new just without the top sensor piece which is on my car...


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (dubbkidd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubbkidd* »_fuel pressure regulator...the one u show in ur ad..and its brand new just without the top sensor piece which is on my car...

You would be referring to the fuel pump in regards to what Keith is asking.
There is a fuel pressure regulator for the low pressure system in the fuel filter, and a fuel metering valve that controls flow in and out of the high pressure pump which controls the pressure.


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## dubbkidd (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

ok then..lol is the part# of the piece you are modifying 06F 127 025F causse thats what i have..


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Is the Autotech Fuel pump available ye?? Or VF!? Will VF sell the pump seperate?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (sasha18T)*

Autotech was shooting for the end of the month. But only they could say for sure at this point.


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

pls view http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2005-01-0099
the entire engine mounted fueling system on tfsi (& others) is a selectively tuned "cavity" (do not view as isolated components) designed to reduce/control fuel delivery pulsation over entire engine rpm range.
keeping in mind that 2.0 tfsi is designed ground up as ulev II compliant, increases in hitachi fuel pump displacement and remapping for increased duty cycle & engine rpm operating range, there is distinct possibility of increased unwanted fuel delivery pulsation ... mapping values will not resolve ... fuel rail may req config/internal volume revision.
there is significant reason why hitachi will not supply revised displacement pumps ... size of order is not issue.
you may have to trade increased low / mid output (w/aftermarket pump) for fixed rpm limit for daily drives...
also minimum fuel octane may not be acceptable as me9 interacts within fueling map/fueling duty cycle and can actually cause increased fuel pulsation due to inadequate fuel octane.
initial pump release remaps should be somewhat conservative, with revised files after weather changes in three/four months... when ambient charge air mass will begin to increase.
something to consider...


_Modified by kwokTTQ at 6:46 AM 8-5-2007_


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (kwokTTQ)*

Dude... You have to understand that I'm from the 5.0 Mustang era from the late 80's & early 90's. I'm used to a 255lph fuel pump cost me $100.00 or so... Not used to this $1099.00 fuel pump stuff.


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (rippie74)*

back from the dead much??


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_Dude... You have to understand that I'm from the 5.0 Mustang era from the late 80's & early 90's. I'm used to a 255lph fuel pump cost me $100.00 or so... Not used to this $1099.00 fuel pump stuff.









Whoa, way to bring this back! 
I too wondered about price in the beginning.. Basically, it's an apples and oranges comparison. The 2.0tFSI has 2 fuel pumps.... your normal $100 dollar pump and your $billion dollar expensive new thing that costs a lot pump. There is no comparing the two.


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## .:R:. (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*

I'll sum it up for you retarts
1.Same exact pump
2.One costs more then the other
Lets end it here


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (.:R:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:R:.* »_I'll sum it up for you retarts
1.Same exact pump
2.One costs more then the other
Lets end it here









*Completely incorrect.*


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
*Completely incorrect.* 

....well he did sum it up for retards.
FRBR


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (prodigymb)*

I do have one question regarding this...
How come the APR pump is still so much $$$ if you buy the whole assembly from them? The reason I ask, is when this thread was first started, I have no doubt that the price of a OEM FP was approx $300. Now, it looks as if the MSRP is $240, or $175 from 1stvwparts.com. Wouldn't buying a brand new pump for $175 and sending it to APR (for rebuild) be the exact same set-up as their $1100 HPFP? Seems to me that you could get this whole NEW assembly for $900? I know this is not a significant decrease, just curious that's all.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (rbradleymedmd)*

....you found a loop hole dude...sick.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (LEWXCORE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LEWXCORE* »_....you found a loop hole dude...sick.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_I do have one question regarding this...
How come the APR pump is still so much $$$ if you buy the whole assembly from them? The reason I ask, is when this thread was first started, I have no doubt that the price of a OEM FP was approx $300. Now, it looks as if the MSRP is $240, or $175 from 1stvwparts.com. Wouldn't buying a brand new pump for $175 and sending it to APR (for rebuild) be the exact same set-up as their $1100 HPFP? Seems to me that you could get this whole NEW assembly for $900? I know this is not a significant decrease, just curious that's all.

Did you factor in shipping costs? At least for me being without a car is extremely inconvenient, so if someone like me were to do the shipping thing, they'd have to pay for overnight which is expensive as it is.


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (NoRegrets78)*

^^^^^ He's talking about buying a new pump and mailing it in... which would be cheaper than buying a new pump from APR... Still get what you pay for??


_Modified by shortydub at 7:04 AM 2-12-2008_


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (shortydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shortydub* »_^^^^^ He's talking about buying a new pump and mailing it in...

Yeah...no downtime at all for your car. You are buying a second pump that is brand new. Plus, once you got your brand new pump with the APR internals added, you can seel your old pump for some cash back. This should easily cover the cost of shipping if not reduce the $900 price tag to roughly $800. Basically, you save $300 plus no downtime and the pump you receive is brand spanking new with upgraded internals (same as APR). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Fuel Pump VS. Autotech Fuel Pump. (rbradleymedmd)*

If you can get one cheaper and do the rebuild program, I don't see why anyone wouldn't do it. 
I bought mine when they had a sale, and then sold my existing pump for a rebuild... Total cost for a brand new one was only slightly more expensive than the rebuild program, cept I had no downtime.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Either way I would need the new pump. I put all my cars back to factory configurations before selling, this way I can sell my upgrades and make some money back.


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## MKV John (Aug 9, 2007)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

Grr, i OWN an Autotech pump ... because i called them up when they were RDing it and i got my hands on one, but it's still not in my car yet because im waiting for Revo to release the file...
But i do have a friend, matt, who has the autotech pump installed in his 07' gti (dsg) and he loves it ... but he's getting to test out revo's fuel pump file.... chris, im jealous! haha

IMO, its all the same ish... APR just does the rebuild carefully, but i have a shop that i trust to do the install for me.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (MKV John)*

The materials are absolutely not the same in quality and design.


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## MKV John (Aug 9, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*

yeah i know that. but can u say which material is better? probably not.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (MKV John)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKV John* »_yeah i know that. but can u say which material is better? probably not.

Actually, yes. Reading over several patent files by hitachi for their fuel pumps I noted many of the materials and surface hardening techniques they used. Quote coincidentally APR derived the same importance in these techniques and has also mentioned it in part of the creation of their pumps.
*** login required to see the patent information (login is free).


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## MKV John (Aug 9, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*

<--- pwned. haha
i'm too lazy to read all of that but either way im sticking with Autotech because i trust them.


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
Actually, yes. Reading over several patent files by hitachi for their fuel pumps I noted many of the materials and surface hardening techniques they used. Quote coincidentally APR derived the same importance in these techniques and has also mentioned it in part of the creation of their pumps.
*** login required to see the patent information (login is free).

Are you saying AT didn't do any of this? This statement is one sided IMO. It is very obvious that APR knows all the marketing mumbo jumbo.


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## GTIBOIL (Jan 24, 2007)

say i was to get the autotech fuel pump, would an apr dealer install it if i was to get their tbe?


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_[...]AT didn't do any of this [...]. It is very obvious that APR knows all[...].

Agree ;-)


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
Good propaganda makes up for poor products

I agree.


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## 1.8tjettaman (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

I'm not taking sides here but was wondering if anyone else had seen this on the autotech site. And why Autotech put this online with their pump? I copied from their PDF file
_IMPORTANT WARNING
AND PREVENTIVE NOTICE
Thank you for purchasing Autotech’s high volume output fuel pump kit for 2.0T VW and
Audi engine applications, our part #10.127.100k.
This kit is designed to provide up to 50% greater fuel volume than the standard factory
fuel pump. In order to drive this additional fuel volume under the basic laws of physics it
will take up to 50% proportionally more pressure to drive the pump.
The pump is driven by a lobe on the factory intake camshaft which in turn drives the fuel
pump piston through a follower. The pressure exerted on the cam lobe can be up to 50%
greater than the standard application. Both VW and Audi have issued factory “Technical
Service Bulletins” regarding abnormal camshaft wear and failure with the standard stock
factory installed fuel pump. Both companies have issued corrective actions which
include replacing the factory stock camshaft with a new camshaft that has improved
surface hardened fuel pump lobes. The part number for this new camshaft is
06F.109.101B and is available at any VW or Audi dealer.
Before proceeding with the installation of Autotech’s high volume fuel pump kit, it is
imperative that the installer check for wear on the existing camshaft and follower. If
worn, the camshaft must replaced. If not worn, it will be necessary to identify which
camshaft you have in your engine by looking at the part number etched in the cam
between the lobes for the number 2 and number 3 cylinders. The old style (less hardened
cam) is marked with part #06F.109.101A. Those customers who have the old style cam
should strongly consider changing to the new cam part #06F.109.101B.
Regardless of which camshaft you are using, Autotech cannot guarantee that your
camshaft’s fuel pump lobe will not experience increased wear leading to a catastrophic
failure. All customers who choose to use Autotech’s high volume fuel pump must accept
the additional risk of camshaft failure. It is incumbent upon the customer to check for
wear of the camshaft and follower on a regular basis and replace those parts as necessary
as a preventive measure against future failure. To be able to enjoy the benefits of this
part it is necessary for the customer to accept responsibility for wear and tear on other
related parts as mentioned above on their vehicle.
Antotech, therefore will not accept any warranty or merchantability claims for camshaft
and/or follower failures or any damage as a result of those failures for this product. The
customer agrees to accept all risk when using this product._


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (1.8tjettaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8tjettaman* »_I'm not taking sides here but was wondering if anyone else had seen this on the autotech site. And why Autotech put this online with their pump? I copied from their PDF file

It's not as big a deal as you'd think. In fact, after a failure of an APR FSI pump on another car APR had said they were going to make a similar disclaimer.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: (1.8tjettaman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Are you saying AT didn't do any of this? This statement is one sided IMO. It is very obvious that APR knows all the marketing mumbo jumbo.
I'm sure he wasn't saying any of that because the AT pump shows obvious signs of surface hardening. The black coloring on parts of the AT pieces shows those pieces were hardened and not machined afterwards. The shine on other pieces doesn't mean they weren't hardened just that they were likely machined afterwards. Depending on what alloys were used some parts may not even require hardening, but that's an issue for the designers of the parts and for somebody to jump to any conclusions just because one company says they did something would just be silly.

_Quote, originally posted by *1.8tjettaman* »_I'm not taking sides here but was wondering if anyone else had seen this on the autotech site. And why Autotech put this online with their pump? I copied from their PDF file............

They're just watching their ass due to the fact that VW sent out some cars with improperly hardened camshafts. The same would apply to any aftermarket cam driven fuel pump.


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## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2008)

*Re: (blackvento36)*

I have a question to both APR and autotech. I used to work for an Audi dealer and I am sure as many people here know as well as you both. There were some issues with the hardening on the lobe that the fuel pump rides on. What would happen is the metal would start to wear down and eventually wear a hole in the bucket that rides on the camshaft and damage the pump. Both the camshaft and the pumps would need to be replaced in the extreme cases. In the less extreme just the camshaft and the bucket that rides on it would need to be replaced. 
I haven't looked too much into the exact way your increasing fuel pressure. I am assuming that there is going to be a bit stiffer spring pressure inside of the pump? If so wouldn't that be putting more wear on a part that might only be able to handle so much? As with anything aftermarket you are running the risk of breaking stuff. I was just wondering if anything like that was taken into account?
The reason I ask is because currently I am trying to decide which to recommend to my customers and it is something that came to my mind.


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Spring loads are very low compared the the load from pumping the fuel at 120 bar. 
All aftermarket high flow pumps use a larger diameter pump which increased the area that the pressure acts and and therefore increases the pumping loads.


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