# Question on cooled seats



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

Well as weather warms up, a fe new items pop up in understanding the Phaeton's 'choices'. For instance, I thought we were only supposed to receive direct air for ventalation if we specified it. But I guess when it's how enough in the car, the center vents open up. Not a big deal, I just thought the other avenues would be used.
So that brings me to the cooling seats. My wife and I have had ours set at -3 for the past two days with temps above 75 F. I do recall Pan posting something about the -3 setting being used to ultra heat in cold weather. Well we've been on some 15 - 20 minute trips with this setting and we really don't feel any difference. Anyone have words of wisdom on this? Of perhapse I have a issue that I need to get serviced.
TIA


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (whealy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whealy* »_Well as weather warms up, a fe new items pop up in understanding the Phaeton's 'choices'. For instance, I thought we were only supposed to receive direct air for ventalation if we specified it. But I guess when it's how enough in the car, the center vents open up. Not a big deal, I just thought the other avenues would be used.
So that brings me to the cooling seats. My wife and I have had ours set at -3 for the past two days with temps above 75 F. I do recall Pan posting something about the -3 setting being used to ultra heat in cold weather. Well we've been on some 15 - 20 minute trips with this setting and we really don't feel any difference. Anyone have words of wisdom on this? Of perhapse I have a issue that I need to get serviced.
TIA

My understanding on the Vents is that they open as you stated when extra cooling is need to maintain the temperature specified on your auto setting. The vents will also open when you have direct sun light on them.
For example when I drive to Palm Springs from OC the my temp is set at 70 degrees and the vents stay closed until the amount of heat overwhelms the indirect cooling system at which time the vents will open. This can be over-ridden.
I have had the the vents on one side of the dash open while the others stay closed if the sun is beating down on that side of the car.
Regarding the seats, I believe the way the cooling works is to pull the moisture away from the seat and not blow the air up into the seat. Therefore you will not notice any cool air but you should arrive in comfort without many wrinkles or sweating in your clothes.


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (rmg2)*

Rick...I don't know...It seems if you crank the seats up to +3 they will *iron *your pants!!!







In -3 they really are cold


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguild* »_Rick...I don't know...It seems if you crank the seats up to +3 they will *iron *your pants!!!







In -3 they really are cold

Oh, I see. Another benefit of owning a Phaeton.








No longer need to take your pants to the dry cleaners. Just fold them and lay them on the seats, set some books on top of the pants and crank up the heating element,















Aha, another Phaeton first! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Not that I'm advocating it, but try the air cooled seats in a skirt and nylons!







(Rick, just ask your lovely wife)
BTW, don't forget to turn off the air cooled seat when not in use. The first time someone left the right hand side one on in my car, it drove me crazy. Where was that NOISE coming from??


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 8:46 PM 5-8-2005_


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_Not that I'm advocating it, but try the air cooled seats in a skirt and nylons!







(Rick, just ask your lovely wife)
BTW, don't forget to turn off the air cooled seat when not in use. The first time someone left the right hand side one on in my car, it drove me crazy. Where was that NOISE coming from??

_Modified by PhaetonChix at 8:46 PM 5-8-2005_

That's why she likes to where slacks unless we're on a date.















Where's that Barry White CD. Honey!!


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: (rmg2)*

OK!!! More than we need to know here...








I am surprised that the really dramatic effectiveness of these settings seem unknown...


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (rmg2)*

hello, is this certain about pulling moisture away rather than cool air coming out? I noticed this today- they really didn't seem to do much and was wondering whether they were operating correctly?








Thanks
Ed.


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (viscount)*

I don't know about moisture absorbtion, etc. I do know that, here in Central California, when you back it down to -3 the seats get cool, and when you go to 3+ they get hot...
If yours do not function as stated they should be looked at... 


_Modified by vwguild at 9:34 AM 5-9-2005_


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (viscount)*

All I can say is that that was the way it was explained to me by Phaeton Customer care.
It wicks away the moisture rather than pushes it up through the seat.
Given the story we were told about how the Phaeton got the vent covers this would make sense.
Mr. Hunt relayed a story to us at the GTG and told us that Dr. Bernd Pischetsrieder did not like air blowing on him while they were on a bus in Phoneix traveling from the airport to the rental car agency and decided then that the Phaeton would have indirect cooling and heating.
It seems plausible then that the seat cooling would work the same way.
Maybe Michael can ask VW while in Dresden.


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## coucou (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (vwguild)*

You fellows and girls are too funny. Where you you buy Phaeton tested nylon stockings in the metropolitan DC area, prey tell? My wife is cracking up!


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguild* »_I don't know about moisture absorbtion, etc. I do know that, here in Central California, when you back it down to -3 they seats get cool, and when you go to 3+ they get hot...
If yours do not function as stated they should be looked at... 

If I remember my military days as a refrigeration/ac technician I believe the absence of heat results in cooling.
Where are the engineers on this forum when you need one.


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (coucou)*

The cooled seats should definitely "blow" cool air through the preforatiuons in the seat. I felt it myself last summer.
Try holding your hand close to the seat when it is on -3 and you should feel a little air seeping out.


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: (Corradodrvrfnd)*

thanks all. i did feel the cool air, but more in the seat bottom, than the backrest (even when i wasn't leaning against it!)...it was barely discernable @ -3, which mademe wonder whether -1 would be felt at all... i guess next time i need to have the car seen to, i'll have it checked out anyway.
Ed.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (whealy)*

Hi Everybody:
Great thread! I also noticed that the vent covers across the front panel of the car started to open and close in my Phaeton, around the last week of April or so. This was the first time that I have ever seen these vents open up by themselves - I was quite surprised, and kept double-checking to make sure I had the HVAC system set in 'auto' mode.
My guess is that the Phaeton looks at the outside air temperature (OAT), and the intensity of solar radiation from the two sunlight sensors, and then sums these values. If the sum of these three inputs is high enough to suggest that indirect airflow alone won't be sufficient to keep the front seat occupants comfortable, the mid-level vents then open. I tested this theory by covering up the sunlight sensor with a piece of paper, and whenever I did this, the vents would close within about a minute.
There are two sunlight sensors in the same enclosure, separated by quite a high 'wall' in between them. This design allows the Phaeton to figure out which side of the car the sun is coming from, and this explains the occasional asymmetric operation of the front panel vent covers. If the front passenger is exposed to sunlight, and the driver is in the shade, then only the passenger side 'decor panels' (that's the official VW description of the vent doors) will open.
I'm not 100% sure how the seat airflow goes, if it is a vacuum (the seat inhales air) or a pressure supply. I have taken the driver seat apart once on my car, just to see how it works, and I have some good photos of the ducting and the fan. But, I don't have these handy with me. I am posting from a hotel computer (with a Portuguese keyboard, too - if you see any funny punctuation, now you know the reason).
I do recall reading in one of the VW self study programs (SSP) that when the seat control wheel is in the minus position, the Phaeton will consider the OAT and the prevailing cabin air temperature, and if it is appropriate, the seat warming elements will come on. This was a surprise to me - I always thought that the plus positions were for radiant heat from the elements only, and the minus position was for airflow only. But, not so. If the Phaeton thinks it makes sense to give you radiant heat along with airflow, then you will get both. I don't know exactly what the criteria is for this decision, my guess is that the OAT would have to be pretty low before radiant heat came on when a minus number was selected.
The only radiant heat I am getting these days is from the handgrips on my motorcycle. I returned to Europe yesterday (was away at work for a week), and will be riding around France, Spain, Portugal, and Germany for the balance of the month. I have a little bit of work to do in May - but not much.
Regards to all,
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

The air from the seats is being blown up out of the seats. I can feel it for sure. I do know that on my prior Benzes, the air was pulled into the seat and I got very little effect of cooled seats because of that. But on the Phaeton, the positive upward airflow coming from within the seat gives a quicker cooling effect than the other way around. Michael, it may be that the air coming out of the seats is always the same temperature as the air coming out of the vents. In that case, is the duct work connected into the seat fan system? That would make sense and would be a great idea if it isn't being done that way.
Also, my cooling and heating do not shut off even though no one is sitting in the seat. It stays on indefinitely until the switch is pushed back to "0". The occupant sensor idea needs to be implemented in order to offset the fact that we can't always remember to shut off the switches after departing from the car. I mentioned this in the "improvements to the 2006 model" thread.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_...it may be that the air coming out of the seats is always the same temperature as the air coming out of the vents. In that case, is the duct work connected into the seat fan system? 

There is no ducting that supplies conditioned air into the seats. There is a fan in the back of the seat - about midway up - that circulates ambient cabin air through the seat. So, your theory is pretty much correct - the temperature of the air coming out of the seat perforations will be the same as prevailing ambient cabin air temperature.
Michael


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## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
There is no ducting that supplies conditioned air into the seats. There is a fan in the back of the seat - about midway up - that circulates ambient cabin air through the seat. So, your theory is pretty much correct - the temperature of the air coming out of the seat perforations will be the same as prevailing ambient cabin air temperature.
Michael

That makes sense. I noticed a fan running when I had the seats on cool and the stereo turned down which matches your comments and I think PC said the same thing up above. I tried to turn the air way down yesterday to see if it would make a difference. But ultimatly, I got "cold feet" and turned it back up!


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## trekguy (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (whealy)*

Very informative thread. I too was wondering if the air comming from the seats was cooled or not, and how that would operate if the climate system was in the "ECON" mode.
A friend of mine has a Lincoln Aviator, and its cooling seat function seems more effective than mine. Could it be those darned anthricate-colored seats again? The dark color sure seems to hold the heat in.


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## dt1963 (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (trekguy)*

I have a Navigator w/ cooled seats. The dealer tells me there's an mechanism within the seat that actually generates cold which is then circulated via a fan or fans. It's distinctly different from what I believe my Phaeton and S-class do, in that those vehicles simply "blow air around" in the seats. The Lincoln system is brilliant, imho.
Just my two cents...


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## versatec95 (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
There is no ducting that supplies conditioned air into the seats. There is a fan in the back of the seat - about midway up - that circulates ambient cabin air through the seat. So, your theory is pretty much correct - the temperature of the air coming out of the seat perforations will be the same as prevailing ambient cabin air temperature.
Michael

Need I ask, but are you sure? The US sales literature said (or implied) that the seat cooler is integrated with the HVAC system somehow..


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (versatec95)*

My PHAETON *Source Book* indicates that "air conditioning is provided by ventilators integrated in the seats. The ventilators feed temperate air through the fine perforations in the leather."


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## versatec95 (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (vwguild)*

I do know that my butt gets pretty cold at setting -3. I find it hard to believe this is accomplished with ambient air intake alone.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (versatec95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *versatec95* »_Need I ask, but are you sure? The US sales literature said (or implied) that the seat cooler is integrated with the HVAC system somehow.

Hi James:
It's *always *a good idea to ask if you are uncertain about information provided. Never be shy to do that. I based my comment above (that the seats have no direct supply of conditioned air provided to them) on my experience removing the driver seat from my Phaeton when I installed the start button. I did not see any provision for supplying conditioned air to the seat - for example, an air supply hose.
I also had a chance to help troubleshoot a problem with the seatback massage function in the Phaeton demonstrator at my dealership, and in the process of doing this, I had the seat taken apart and could observe the air supply system in the seat. Here are some photos that might help everyone comprehend how it all works:
*Back of Driver Seat, with panel removed*








*Illustration showing seat airflow pattern*







>
*Seat Removal during Start Button Install*
_No air supply hose was present. More pictures are here:_ Retrofitting Keyless Start


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## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Hi James:
It's *always *a good idea to ask if you are uncertain about information provided. Never be shy to do that. I based my comment above (that the seats have no direct supply of conditioned air provided to them) on my experience removing the driver seat from my Phaeton when I installed the start button. I did not see any provision for supplying conditioned air to the seat - for example, an air supply hose.
I also had a chance to help troubleshoot a problem with the seatback massage function in the Phaeton demonstrator at my dealership, and in the process of doing this, I had the seat taken apart and could observe the air supply system in the seat. Here are some photos that might help everyone comprehend how it all works:




Well Duh!!! Having done the kyeless start mod I should have recalled that there isn't any coolant supply line to the seat. Just electrical. But I wonder if freezing out the back seats would assist with feeding the front seats.










_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
I also had a chance to help troubleshoot a problem with the seatback massage function in the Phaeton demonstrator at my dealership, and in the process of doing this, I had the seat taken apart and could observe the air supply system in the seat.


Michale,
Are you sure you wern't considered a VW employee at the recent get togetehr in Detroit???








As always, thanks for hte informative post. And thanks to whomeever at home you're having dig up your photos so you can post while out of the country!


_Modified by whealy at 9:04 AM 5-12-2005_


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

That illustration is from the *Source Book* I referenced...the text that I quoted was right along side...
Is "ventilator" another word for "fan"?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (vwguild)*

Hi Peter:
That illustration may have also been used in the Source Book, but that's not where I got it from. I got it from the VW Germany media library, and there was no accompanying text.
Michael


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Peter:
That illustration may have also been used in the Source Book, but that's not where I got it from. I got it from the VW Germany media library, and there was no accompanying text.
Michael

Michael,
Have we determined if the cooling in the seats blows cool air up thru the seat or does it only circulate the air around the seat thus wicking away the moisture and thereby cooling?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (rmg2)*

Hi Rick:
As far as I can determine from observation of the system, the fans suck in cabin ambient air (which enters the seat through an air intake grille at the rear bottom) and they blow this air out through the seat perforations. But, this is just my take on it, it's not 'fact'.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

It will be tough on a day like this when the temperature is flirting with 90 degrees, but I will turn my HVAC temp settings (keeping the dash fans turned down) all the way up and see if hot air seems to come out forcefully and then immediately turn the temperature setting way down and see if the air coming through the seats is immediately switched to cool. If switching this back and forth from hot to cold causes a quick change in the air coming from the seats , then it would seem that air from the HVAC system is being brought to the seat somehow. Could that possibly answer our question? Or have we determined that no duct work is connected to the seat fans? It just seems that the air coming up from within the seats is just cooler than the ambient air within the cabin as many have already pointed out.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_...It just seems that the air coming up from within the seats is just cooler than the ambient air within the cabin as many have already pointed out.

That might be the result of evaporative cooling of your skin that takes place as a result of the air being blown over you.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

Very well could be.


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

Actually it is...I'll get you some pix...


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## versatec95 (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

I could set up an experiment to examine the seat surface temperature with a thermocouple, to determine if it falls below ambient. Maybe there's some solid state device in the seat that cools the air, like they use in those 'iceless' beverage chests?
Evaporative effect or not, it sure feels cold!


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (versatec95)*

Ty...Michael's explaination is absolutely correct...the ambient air is actually cooled further by the fan/ventilator...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguild* »_...the ambient air is actually cooled further by the fan/ventilator...

Uh, I wasn't suggesting that. When I referred to 'evaporative cooling', I meant that the airflow is evaporating moisture (perspiration) from the skin surface of whoever is sitting in the seat.
There might be a tiny temperature drop on the low pressure (intake) side of the fan, and another tiny temperature drop on the exit side of the perforations caused by air pressure change, but I don't think that is significant. My guess is that if someone measured the temperature of the air coming out of the perforations, and the temperature of the air going into the seat air intake (at the bottom, rear, center of the seat), they would be pretty much the same. But - that's just a guess.
Michael


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

Well...My guess is that like a room fan, the air being expelled will *feel* cooler than the ambient air at intake...hence the term "wind chill"...Just like a gentle breeze on a very hot day...


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## versatec95 (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (vwguild)*

If this system only contains fans moving air, then there is no temperature change anywhere. The temp at the perfs is the same as the temp at the intake, regardless of velocity or pressure. (Yes, compressed air room temperature, like 100psi or greater, will exhibit a nominal temperture drop once released, but these seats can't build up enough pressure at the perfs to impose that.) 
If there's enough sweat on my back to effect evaporation, then indeed the seats will _feel_ cool when the fans are on. 
Hmm. I believe the 2004 Phaeton sales catalogue VWoA published placed a bit of 'imprecise marketing spin' on this matter, having stated on page 25: "Then there's heating and cooling. Both front seats offer individual climate control *that works in conjunction with the Climatronic system*. So you can easily maintain the temperature you prefer. And everyone can heat or cool themselves as they desire." 
The precise German engineers who designed the seats would probably take some issue with that statement. If I have the HVAC off, the windows down, and the setting at -3, for example, the seats work 'in conjunction with the existant Bay Area weather'.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (versatec95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *versatec95* »_...the 2004 Phaeton sales catalogue VWoA published placed a bit of 'imprecise marketing spin' on this matter, having stated on page 25: "Then there's heating and cooling. Both front seats offer individual climate control *that works in conjunction with the Climatronic system*.... The precise German engineers who designed the seats would probably take some issue with that statement. 

I think the statement is truthful as it is written, because the heating elements in the seats may be activated by the HVAC system when the seat control is set to the 'minus' position, if the OAT and the cabin air temperature measurements suggest that it would be appropriate to turn on the heat. However, I see the point you are making. I guess it depends what you read into the statement.
Michael


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (versatec95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *versatec95* »_"Then there's heating and cooling. Both front seats offer individual climate control *that works in conjunction with the Climatronic system*. So you can easily maintain the temperature you prefer. And everyone can heat or cool themselves as they desire."

Or, taken another way...they work together, not that the operation of one being directed by the other.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (chrisj428)*

Here are some pictures of a Phaeton (front) seat back and seat base, showing where the fans are that supply the cooling air. The fans pick the air up from ambient cabin air, there are no supply hoses running to these fans.
Michael
*Base of driver seat*
This photo shows the underside of the driver seat, the front of the car is the top of the picture. The photo is taken from the perspective of directly underneath the driver seat (i.e. looking upwards at the bottom of the seat).








*Driver seat back*
This photo shows the back of the driver seat, with the cover removed. The photo is taken from the perspective of the passenger sitting behind the driver in the rear seat, so, you are looking in the direction of the front of the car, and the roof of the car is at the top of the picture.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (chrisj428)*

My car has Cold/Comfort. When the rear passenger A/C system is ON, and my driver seat air circulation is set to -2 or -3 I feel cool air coming from the seats. I think the rear A/C cooled air is finding its way to the air intakes for the seat fans and, since cooled air falls and hot air rises, the seat fans are drawing air from one of the coolest areas in the car. To put it simply, you don't need ducts from the A/C to the seats with this setup.


_Modified by Paldi at 7:07 PM 6-14-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (Paldi)*

The rear AC system will be on by default, unless you specifically turn it off. Anytime you press the button to synchronize the 4 different seating positions in the cabin, you enable rear air conditioning.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

I always manually set the rear a/c at "off" until it started getting HOT out and I learned the front seat ventillation system fan wasn't connected to its own individual cooling duct. Now I run the Climate on the automatic/synchronize setting all the time. Sure glad I have Cold/Comfort.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (Paldi)*

I think the option of turning rear air conditioning off was only intended to be used if, for example, there was an infant being carried in the back of the car, and the driver wanted to minimize air circulation in that area. There is no economic advantage to turning the rear AC off - the compressor is going to run in any case to cool the front area, and if the rear AC is shut off, it will run longer because it can't cool the whole car in the most efficient way possible.
If the driver wants to achieve maximum fuel economy, that can be done by selecting the economy mode, using the softkey that is provided for that purpose on the HVAC settings (CLIMATE) page. Be aware, though, that the increased drag that is created by driving at highway speeds with the windows open (assuming hot weather) will minimize savings from not operating the air conditioning compressor. At city speeds, the drag increase caused by having the windows open is negligible.
Michael


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (whealy)*

Just a note on the extreme attention to detail on this car. Have you ever needed to find the "0" position of a rear seat heater/cooler control while driving the car because a passenger had left it on (like when my kids leave it on +3 in summer!)? Well, if you reach back and turn it slowly with your finger you can detect the "0" setting because leaving that setting (to go to +1 or -1) requires noticeably more force (effort) than changing the setting from +1 to +2 (for example). So I just slowly rotate the knob until I feel the increased effort and go back one position to "0". This also works for the front controllers if you want to find "0" without looking away from the road. I'm not sure they designed it for this purpose, but it works well for me. I like it better than counting the click stops from - or +3.


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## njwiseguy (Jan 7, 2005)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_Just a note on the extreme attention to detail on this car. Have you ever needed to find the "0" position of a rear seat heater/cooler control while driving the car because a passenger had left it on (like when my kids leave it on +3 in summer!)? ....

Wow! I thought my kids were the only ones that do that! And yes, it is a very cool feature that they designed the controls to "zero out".


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## theyoungest (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (whealy)*

Sometimes when I have my AC seat on for an extended period of time it begins to blow out warm air, does this happen to anybody else.


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## reneestreg (May 25, 2005)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (Paldi)*

Thanks Fred you just saved me a trip to the dealer. I was wondering why my seats were blowing hot air when in the -3 mode. The heat is on high in the back seat.


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## reneestreg (May 25, 2005)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (theyoungest)*

The seats blow out warm air? If so yes this is what was happening to me but I have the rear heat heat on


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (theyoungest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theyoungest* »_Sometimes when I have my AC seat on for an extended period of time it begins to blow out warm air, does this happen to anybody else.

The seat will do one of two things, depending on what the outside and inside air temperatures are, and whether you have the little thumbwheel turned to the 'heat only' or 'ventilation' setting:
*1)* They will blow ambient cabin temperature air through the seats, or;
*2)* If it is a cold day, and the temperature inside the cabin is lower than the temperature you have selected on the HVAC control panel, and you have the thumbwheel in the 'ventilation' position (opposite direction to the seat heat direction), the seat heaters will come on until the cabin warms up - which means you might get a very slightly warmed up airflow.
The short and simple answer is that the air intake for the seat ventilation system (both the front and rear seats) sucks up air from the rear passenger footwells. So, whatever temperature that air is, that's what you will get blown through the seats. If it is a cold day, and you have passengers in the rear seats, the PTC heaters (electric heaters) for the rear seat footwells may well turn on - thus heating the air supplied to the rear footwells, and this air will then be picked up by the seat ventilation system and circulated through the seat. Until the engine coolant heats up, it will be warmer than the air coming out of any of the other air outlets in the car.
The PTC heaters will not operate unless weight is detected by the occupancy sensors in the rear seats. This might explain why some days you get warm air, and some days you don't. The controlling factor is whether you have passengers in the rear seats or not.
Michael


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## theyoungest (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

That answers my question, thank you


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Do you still have the photos that are missing on this thread? I would like to have a look at the fan system in the seats. It seems that the fan in my driver-side seat ventilation system might be malfunctioning. When I apply the breaks, the fan stops, and then it resumes when I accelerate. I had a similar problem with another car's blower fan when the brushes in the motor slowly wore out over time. The change in inertia would cause them to lose contact briefly while breaking. I simply changed the motor & resolved that problem. I am wondering if I might have such a relatively easy fix for this.
Thanks,
George


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Michael!


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## woodrose200 (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael - I am wondering if you might have some insight into this problem. I have just returned from a trip to California, and didn't get to enjoy my seat ventilation, though my passenger did in their seat. I can hear the fan running in my seat when I turn it on, but can't tell if both (bottom and rear) are running or not. I can't feel any ventilation from the seat, wheras I can in the passenger seat. Is there ducting in the seat to take the air to the seat surface, such that if it were disconnected, I would still hear the fan but get no air to the seat surface? Is it possible that only one fan is running? (I forgot to check the seat back for air movement). I am hoping to pinpoint the problem so that when I take it in for service, it doesn't cost an arm to get it repaired.
Many thanks for any input that you might have.
Jim


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Question on cooled seats (woodrose200)*

Jim:
You can reach under the front seat (from the rear) and feel the fan in the seat base with your hand - it is exposed, as shown in the photo above (the fan in the seat back is not exposed).
Try turning the ventilation on, then reaching under the seat and feeling around to determine if the fan in the seat base is operating or not.
Normally, one does not actually 'sense' air movement out of the perforations in the seat base when actually sitting in the seat. The only way to function-check whether or not air is coming out of the seat base perforations is to turn the fan on, stand beside the car (with the door open) and put your hand over the seat base.
Michael


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## lazukin (Oct 13, 2014)

*connect seat heater*

Hello. Please help me, i could not find a some joint contacts for front heater of seat( phaeton)???, if it need i may to send a foto of the seats and under seats cabels, direct me please. thank you.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hello,

Please can you describe your problem in more detail? Are you looking for some pin contacts (plug pins) to repair a broken connector, or are you looking for the location of the seat heating electrical joints?

Some photos would be useful. You can put your photos on a free website such as Photobucket, then put the web links to your photos here in a post.

Chris


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