# 058 vs 06a differences



## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

hey guys, 

ive been trying to determine the differences between the two blocks? 

other then the orientation what are the differences, just something to do with coolant passages? 

im trying to locate a block to build up over winter and i have an opportunity to get a 058 one from an audi 

my car is an 06a awp jetta, 

would it be a good idea to stick with 06a and build it up or would i be ok with either 


thanks guys 

dave


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## Mr_Long (Dec 9, 2003)

06A Block 
Autotech Peg Vernier (1.5 deg increments) 
* Hard Anodized 6061-T6 Aluminum gear 
* Alloy steel pin, hub, and cover plate 
* Unlimited Adjustment 
Cat Vernier 
* 7075 Aluminum 
* Outer wheel is hard anodized 
* Adjustable to +/- 10 degrees 
Eurospec Vernier 
* I'm not sure on materials 
* I'm not sure on max adjustment range 
Integrated Engineering Vernier 
* Hard Anodized 6061 Aluminum 
* Stainless ARP hardware 
* Adjustment to +/- 10 degrees 

058 Block 
Autotech Vernier 
* Hard anodized 6061 Aluminum Outer, 7075-T6 Aluminum inner 
* Stainless ARP hardware 
* 14 ounces 
Eurospec Vernier 
* I'm not sure on materials 
* I'm not sure on max adjustment range 
Integrated Engineering 
* Hard Anodized 6061 Aluminum 
* Stainless ARP hardware 
* Adjustment to +/- 10 degrees 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5417830-FAQ-Links-DIY-Reference-Table-of-Contents-1.8t


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## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

ya see i read all through the FAQ and the old FAQ section and i couldnt really find the asnwers in terms of which one is more suitable to build up for a BT motor, 

since my car came with 06a should i be sticking with that block


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

I think I would stick with an 06A block. The biggest difference between an 058 block and 06A are: 

1: 058 has an external Water pump. There are several differences in how water hoses are routed. There may also be differences in mounting accessories such as PS pumps and Alternator. 

2: 058 blocks use 11mm head bolts. O6A use 10mm. Put an 06A head on an 058 block and you may have to clearance the bolt holes in the head to fit the larger 11 mm bolts.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Stay with the same block, you're not going to have trouble finding the specific parts, and 99% are shared anyway :thumbup:


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## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

Chickenman35 said:


> I think I would stick with an 06A block. The biggest difference between an 058 block and 06A are:
> 
> 1: 058 has an external Water pump. There are several differences in how water hoses are routed. There may also be differences in mounting accessories such as PS pumps and Alternator.
> 
> 2:* 058 blocks use 11mm head bolts. O6A use 10mm. Put an 06A head on an 058 block and you may have to clearance the bolt holes in the head to fit the larger 11 mm bolts.*


 

thank you for this, so if using an aeb head on a 06a block id be fine with my 10mm arp studs?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

edited for wrongness


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## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

haha i just edited my post, 

so which stud would u use, 10mm or 11mm, because i am getting an AEB next week from a friend if everything comes together


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

l88m22vette said:


> And you need a special stud for using an 06a block with a bigport (AEB) head


 Uh, what?


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

ummm no you do not need any different head bolts or studs to use a largeport head on a small port block. you just use whatever bolts that you would normally use on the block. 

another MAJOR DIFFERENCE between the two is the AEB/058 motor runs an intermediate shaft which runs the oil pump drive gear. the 06A has the oil pump driven via a chain directly off the crank. 

and no, the accessory stuff does not just crossover or share between the two. not even motor mounts, crank position sensor, oil filter housing, none of that is the same. 

if you use an AEB head on an 06A block, use the cam gear that comes off of the small port head and use bolts/studs meant for the 06A block.


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

just use whatever bolts/studs match the BLOCK and disregard what head as that is not the issue. 

i have run every combo you can make. 

AEB block / AEB head = AEB bolts 
AEB block / AWP head = AEB bolts 
AWW/AZG block / AEB head = 06A bolts 
AWW/AZG block / small port head (ANY) = 06A bolts 


the question was asked: 

*Will a standard 11mm head bolt head fit in the hole in the AUQ (smallport) head?* - Yes 

*Is there any length differences between the 11mm bolts and the 10mm bolts? * 
Yes. The 06a bolts are longer because the threads start so deep in the block. 

These are Raceware studs for both 058 and 06a motors. and it is also stock headbolts for each motor as well. the AEB threads start at the deck surface.


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

and lastly, the AEB/058 motor NEVER CAME in a transverse car from the factory. not never, not ever, no how, no way. PERIOD. 

it was ONLY in the Longitudinally mounted Audi and Passat, whether it was FWD or AWD, 1.8T 20v or N/A 20v such as the ADR.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

its like Aron had this posted before, and copy and pasted it.


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## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

speeding-g6O said:


> ummm no you do not need any different head bolts or studs to use a largeport head on a small port block. you just use whatever bolts that you would normally use on the block.
> 
> another MAJOR DIFFERENCE between the two is the AEB/058 motor runs an intermediate shaft which runs the oil pump drive gear. the 06A has the oil pump driven via a chain directly off the crank.
> 
> ...


*
*
ok i will keep my studs for the 06a because i want to run 06a/aeb, now it regards to two other questions, 

1: if the cam guide on the cct is damaged on aeb could i swap this from my small port and use that one or would i need a new aeb guide, 

2: would i still be able to run vvt or should i just ditch it and use manual timing?,


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

David_Tedder said:


> [/B]
> ok i will keep my studs for the 06a because i want to run 06a/aeb, now it regards to two other questions,
> 
> 1: if the cam guide on the cct is damaged on aeb could i swap this from my small port and use that one or would i need a new aeb guide,
> ...


1. You mean the camshaft cap? (commonly known as cam caps)? If so you CAN swap the cam caps from your small port cylinder head onto the AEB head but you will need to get an align hone which is approx $375 / journal. At the end of the day you are looking @ $800 to get your used head to a useable condition.....I would just search the classifieds for a good core.
2. That is entirely up to you. Not sure what tuners actually take advantage of the VVT solenoid but it does not hurt to leave it there unplugged.

the AEB camshaft chain tensioner is alot cheaper than the VVT units so that needs to be taken into account with what you want to do.

That being said , forget the AEB motor completely . No real reason to run anything off of it considering you are asking about cam caps this early in the game.
Find an AWP motor and be done with it.:thumbup:


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

David_Tedder said:


> [/B]
> ok i will keep my studs for the 06a because i want to run 06a/aeb, now it regards to two other questions,
> 
> 1: if the cam guide on the cct is damaged on aeb could i swap this from my small port and use that one or would i need a new aeb guide,
> ...


i think by saying cct he is abbreviating Cam Chain Tensioner. if so, then you can use either tensioner but the VVT is about 3 times the cost as the non-VVT. just leave it unplugged, and write it out in your software.

but like Issam said, if you meant cam cap, people have changed them with no apparent ill effects, but to do it right you need to line-bore/hone the cam lines like he said, and at that point it makes it unfeasible.

so, long story short, if cct means cam chain tensioner, run your VVT tensioner in the AEB head, and write out the SAI. ALSO, you need to run the 4-window cam position trigger. its under the cap on the timing belt end of the cam. an AEB one is one window, your AWP should be 4 window. and dont forget the AWP cam gear for the timing belt, either.


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## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

speeding-g6O said:


> i think by saying cct he is abbreviating Cam Chain Tensioner. if so, then you can use either tensioner but the VVT is about 3 times the cost as the non-VVT. just leave it unplugged, and write it out in your software.
> 
> but like Issam said, if you meant cam cap, people have changed them with no apparent ill effects, but to do it right you need to line-bore/hone the cam lines like he said, and at that point it makes it unfeasible.
> 
> so, long story short, if cct means cam chain tensioner,* run your VVT tensioner in the AEB head, and write out the SAI. ALSO, you need to run the 4-window cam position trigger. its under the cap on the timing belt end of the cam. an AEB one is one window, your AWP should be 4 window.* and dont forget the AWP cam gear for the timing belt, either.


so i have all these deletes currently written out of software with the exception to vvt, now if i get that written out is there something that needs to take the control place of the vvt, ? , or it as simple as write out of software and just unplug it when swapping over from awp head, my 4 window cam trigger can also be swapped over from awp ?


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

you can leave it as is, or write it out. if you leave it as is, leave it plugged in.

and yes, both the small port heads should have the same cam trigger, a 4-window. the AEB head will come with a 1-window trigger.


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## Rosten-Performance (May 15, 2010)

Audi A3 came with a transverse 058 
Also to make it even more complicated
The 06A came with 2 lengths off the 10mm head bolts


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## AE4 (Dec 4, 2010)

Rosten-Performance said:


> Audi A3 came with a transverse 058
> Also to make it even more complicated
> The 06A came with 2 lengths off the 10mm head bolts


More specific, the engine code is an AGU, which I believe was never sold outside Europe, bar Australia(cause we just pulled one out from a mk4 golf gti).

hth


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

i would need to see this.

i did not find anything of the sort in ETKA, for a 97 A3. i see the 058 cylinderhead, but not an external water pump block, with intermediate shaft and shaft driven oil pump.

can you show me this? as if you can i stand corrected.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i swapped over my VVT tensioner from my AWP to my AEB since i kept VVT in my file. love it.

not only do you have to swap the cam gear over but the cam sensor for the block your using.:beer:


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

and, as i said, please show me this 058 BLOCK in a transverse application.

this is a 1997 A3 in the Domestic Market (Europe) page for the 1.8 20v engine. 

please do note the block. it is 06A, internal water pump. no IM shaft. crank driven by chain oil pump.

note the chain drive gear on the crank. 06A.

note the water pump style and location. internal and on the timing belt face of the bolck, not external and lower on the front face of the block.

so, as i said, NO TRANSVERSE CAR CAME WITH AN 058 *MOTOR*. the head, yeah maybe. but the MOTOR is the block in particular of which i speak.

also please note the oil pan, that will tell you it is mounted transversely in the vehicle which it came in. it is not the correct shape or design for a longitudinal application.

unless, of course, you have seen one that i do not know about. and if you have, i would like to see it and i will stand corrected.


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## Rosten-Performance (May 15, 2010)

The A3 sure did come with a 058 block
It's a 125hp N/A similar to the ADR
Normally they come with 06A blocks 1.6-1.8 or 1.8t
But obviously some early models came with the 058

I changed a broken timing belt and rebuilt the head on an A3 last year
It had external water pump,I'm shaft,11mm head bolts


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

rosten..your taking non us..so your post doesn't apply,aaron is correct

as said...no longitudinal awp/etc

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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

Chickenman35 said:


> I think I would stick with an 06A block. The biggest difference between an 058 block and 06A are:
> 
> 1: 058 has an external Water pump. There are several differences in how water hoses are routed. There may also be differences in mounting accessories such as PS pumps and Alternator.
> 
> 2: 058 blocks use 11mm head bolts. O6A use 10mm. Put an 06A head on an 058 block and you may have to clearance the bolt holes in the head to fit the larger 11 mm bolts.


Possible to put AEB (from 058) head with 11mm head bolts on 06A block (10mm head bolts)? Washer/spacer needed under 10mm bolt heads?


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

vtraudt said:


> Possible to put AEB (from 058) head with 11mm head bolts on 06A block (10mm head bolts)? Washer/spacer needed under 10mm bolt heads?


Done all the time. Drop it on and bolt it up. Nothing special needed as far as I know.


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## Ken's Mom (Jan 23, 2007)

vtraudt said:


> Possible to put AEB (from 058) head with 11mm head bolts on 06A block (10mm head bolts)? Washer/spacer needed under 10mm bolt heads?


did you read ANYTHING in this thread from a couple years ago? anything at all? see below in red.



speeding-g6O said:


> *just use whatever bolts/studs match the BLOCK and disregard what head as that is not the issue.*
> 
> i have run every combo you can make.
> 
> ...


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## fabil (Sep 8, 2008)

AE4 said:


> More specific, the engine code is an AGU, which I believe was never sold outside Europe, bar Australia(cause we just pulled one out from a mk4 golf gti).
> 
> hth



Audi A3 with AEB and AGU was sold here in Brazil


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## BiH (Nov 27, 2000)

since we are talking AEB heads, any benefit from putting a AEB head on 06a block with just a frankenturbo setup? what about intake manifold, I have a B5.5 so manifold will fit just fine, not sure if TB can be bolted in.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

BiH said:


> since we are talking AEB heads, any benefit from putting a AEB head on 06a block with just a frankenturbo setup? what about intake manifold, I have a B5.5 so manifold will fit just fine, not sure if TB can be bolted in.


No, I don't think there's any benefits. If you still want to go with it, the intake manifold would have to match, so if you have an A4 you have to use the AEB intake. If you have a VW, I don't think there's an OEM manifold that has the ports like an AEB, so you'd need an aftermarket.


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## BiH (Nov 27, 2000)

un1ko said:


> No, I don't think there's any benefits. If you still want to go with it, the intake manifold would have to match, so if you have an A4 you have to use the AEB intake. If you have a VW, I don't think there's an OEM manifold that has the ports like an AEB, so you'd need an aftermarket.


I dont understand why is the manifold a problem, passat came with AEB head and manifold, and I have a passat with longitudinal engine not transverse like jetta or golf.


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## un1ko (Apr 6, 2004)

BiH said:


> I dont understand why is the manifold a problem, passat came with AEB head and manifold, and I have a passat with longitudinal engine not transverse like jetta or golf.


You're fine, I was saying if you have an AEB head you need to use an AEB manifold, because the ports are bigger than an AWM.


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## Hoganva (Dec 12, 2014)

I couldnt absolutely acquisition the asnwers in agreement of which one is added acceptable to body up for a BT motor.


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## k00ldip (Mar 18, 2013)

Do they both share the same crankshaft sproket problem? ??

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