# 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions???



## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

My plans have changed. Now I will be doing a 1.8t syncro mkII







I'm getting a peliquin lsd for the syncro (one of the first he has made). I'll also have a 3" turbo back exhaust to side dump. I'm doing a spearco fmic w/ a turbo xs by-pass valve built in. I'm hoping this setup will get me into the 13's. Btw, the car should be around 2250 lbs.


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## TDIVentoDave (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

How much is that costin ya? Is the project now at Matrix for us local boys to go look at? That would be supa sweet!!


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## Whatever (May 30, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (TDIVentoDave)*

Your 17 and you have enough money to fund a project like this???


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (Whatever)*

My car has been sitting out side of matrix for several months now. It is the 87 golf shell with a full cage in it. I have been saving money for this project for along time but I'm also a special case. I'm Josh's little cousin. I help out there all the time when I'm not in school. That is why I'm able to do this project. The car isn't much to look at right now but I'll be progressing very quickly in the next couple months. 


[Modified by vwmotorsports, 8:27 AM 9-20-2001]


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## chriscobalus (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (Whatever)*

2250 w/ a syncro system? can you explain how the car will be that light?


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## 2035cc16v (May 18, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (chriscobalus)*

I too find that weight to be highly suspect...


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## 4-door crap rabbit (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (N2oVWracer)*

just out of curiousity, is it possible to put a synchro on a rabbit? cuz i desperately want one in one of my cars, be it the rabbit (optimal) or the jetta.


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (4-door crap rabbit)*

Keep in mind this car is completely striped out. The roll cage is made of fairly thin walled tubing that is small in diameter. THere will be 2 rs sports seats, a corrado dash that jsut has the outer skin, no rear wiper, fiberglass front end, and I have scraped and grinded away all of the undercoating, including in the fenderwells and engine bay. later


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (4-door crap rabbit)*

quote:[HR][/HR]just out of curiousity, is it possible to put a synchro on a rabbit? cuz i desperately want one in one of my cars, be it the rabbit (optimal) or the jetta.







[HR][/HR]​Yes, I have seen a supercharged/nitrous vr6 syncro rabbit. It's a little more involved because it doesn't bolt right in like it does on mk2/3 cars. It can still be done. I see your in Oregon. You should stop by matrix engineering and check out my car. It won't be done for another couple months but you could talk to josh about your project and get some ideas. There # is 503 443-1141


[Modified by vwmotorsports, 12:17 PM 9-22-2001]


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## zen (Mar 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

i used to have some pics of the car man it was awesome. he lives in canada but its been a while since the last time i talked to the kid. he got the diveline from a passat syncro.


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## Phobic (Apr 1, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

With a chip and some drag radiels, 13s will be NO problem at all.


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (Phobic)*

My syncro drivetrain also came from a passat syncro. I think I will be able to run mid 13's with the garret 1.3 bar race chip. I've been hearing some bad things about the durablility of the syncro drivetrain. What kind of things go wrong with it? Is there anything I can do to beef it up so I won't have problems. I won't be drag racing very much but when I do I don't wan't to blow up a tranny. Any help would be great.


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## joesfast (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

I have seen 2 ralley golfs with VR6 in them and they where both slow
1 stock with2.8 ran 15.6
2 had turbo on it and only ran in the 14's
the syncro takes alot of power to run ,, but they are very fun to drive
, and you should have no problems at all with the drive tran, good luck


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## T I N T E K S (Mar 1, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (joesfast)*

(cough) bullsh1t (cough)


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## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (joesfast)*

A Rallye turbo turning a 14? A rallye's weight is comparable to a MKIII Vr6 car. Unless the driver was sleeeping at the lights, he would have to pull a better time than that. Anyone who can afford a rallye, let alone one + Vr swap and FI, is not gonna have some 7 psi turbo kit on the car.


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## 88JETTEXTREME (Jan 1, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

Can we say EIP MK3 GTI 11sec w/syncro VR6T there is a fast syncro.


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## joesfast (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (a2vr6t)*

hey the car is at fast enough performance in KY , Eip car is fast because ,Rich has 50,000.00 in it .. so ,,, well if you do sleep at the light for 2 min. the time does not start till you start to move any way ,,so a sleeply light was not the answer


[Modified by joesfast, 4:54 AM 9-26-2001]


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## smoked_g60 (Jun 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

So you're saying that you have your hands on one of the peloquin diffs for the syncro? What did it cost you?


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (smoked_g60)*

The peliquin cost me right around 820. I don't remeber exactly. I'm having seconds thoughts of going with syncro because It just doesn't seem very durable or too cost effective. What would you do syncro or o2a fwd? I'm going to start a poll here in a second to ask all you. Smoked_g60, would you be interessted in the peliquin if I back out of the syncro?


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## NewFlesh (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

I might be interested in the peloquin, I'd need some more info.


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (B3SyncroVr6)*

What do you need to know about it? I can get you all the specs on it.


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## smoked_g60 (Jun 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

I'me definetly interested in it. I've got my syncro and am waiting for more time to really devote to installing it. I was wondering what differences there are between the peloquin LSD and a quaife ATB. I've got a quaife I'me not going to use also if you'd like to trade straight across. It's NIB, let me know soon by email preferably.


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (smoked_g60)*

I just need to get rid of the syncro system along with the diff. I don't need a different one. I didn't know quiafe made a lsd. a Peliquin is the same thing as a quiafe. If you know anyone interested in it post here please.


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## smoked_g60 (Jun 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

The quaife is for the corrado o2a, or is it o2c? tranny. It's NOT a LSD, it's an automatic torque biasing diff, ATB. Quaife dosen't make a ATB for the syncro tranny, I thought you might want it for your fwd project. Then my question to you is: is this peloquin diff a LSD/clutch type, or an ATB/gear type. I don't think you'll have much problem getting rid of the syncro setup, they're rather difficult to find. If you're interested in letting it go, let me know.


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (smoked_g60)*

This is a o2c syncro tranny diff. It is a gear type atb diffrential. This is one out of the first batch that peliquin is making. I would like to get 900 for it since it is costing me more than that after shipping.


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## T I N T E K S (Mar 1, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (smoked_g60)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I'me definetly interested in it. I've got my syncro and am waiting for more time to really devote to installing it. I was wondering what differences there are between the peloquin LSD and a quaife ATB. I've got a quaife I'me not going to use also if you'd like to trade straight across. It's NIB, let me know soon by email preferably.[HR][/HR]​what lsd do you have??is it 02a??if it is i would buy it from you...let me know...
thanx dan


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (a2vr6t)*

No, it is a special atb diff made for the syncro tranny. It is made for the 02c (syncro tranny) and won't work in a 02a.


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## T I N T E K S (Mar 1, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

quote:[HR][/HR]No, it is a special atb diff made for the syncro tranny. It is made for the 02c (syncro tranny) and won't work in a 02a.[HR][/HR]​sorry, i know what you got...i was referring to smoked_g60s lsd...sorry for the confusion..
thanx dan


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (a2vr6t)*

my bad, I was confused. I didn't look at who he was replying to.


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## smoked_g60 (Jun 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (a2vr6t)*

Well, since you have an ATB for the 02c tranny that's exactly what I want. VW motorsports, if it's unused, I'll buy it for 820+shipping, probally around 900. A2vr6t, if you'd like I'll sell you the quaife ATB, not limited slip for 820+shipping


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## AlexiGTIVR6 (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (vwmotorsports)*

Ron the Don from Mafia motorsport aka Denon performance, ex owner of RPI ,was running 15.0 seconds flat all day long in his mk2 vr6 syncro when he owend it. The motor only had a Neuspeed chip and P-Flow . The new owner has just recently turbocharged it.


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## joesfast (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (AlexiGTIVR6)*

see,, I told you those things are slow


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## Gary C (Apr 11, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (joesfast)*

power sapping AWD systems
I had a scooby.. let me tell you this about AWD up to 30mph they are un beatable without running on slick or cheater slick on the street..at the track still able to nail 1.9 60 foots if you drive the monsters right..anyhow the awd systems totally bogs you down top end wise, it really isn't setup for sheer acc'l it is more of a system designed for conquering the rough stuff (like rally














). Anyhow..back to what i was saying before, on a stock VR6 swap into an A2.. the car will end up running right at about 15 seconds like joe was saying, they add weight, add parasitic drag which adds to more drivetrain losses , etc.) 
i am just kinda mumblin here, so i'll shut up now, but what he and others have said about the synchro swap is entirely true, don't do it unless you are having SERIOUS traction troubles and have lotsa power to back it up







or just want a rally beast, or seriously fun car on street tyres.


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## smoked_g60 (Jun 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (Gary C)*

Why is it that the AWD drive saps so much of the top end power? From my understanding, the syncro rear differental isn't even engaged most of the time. The extra parasitic drag in that case wouldn't be much, only the rear differental as it is spun by the rear wheels. Is this the only reason? Please someone who knows about syncros help me out. If I remember right Jabba sports 1.8t rallye ran the 1/4 mile in around 13.xxx seconds. That sounds like my kind of corrado







Especially when you are trying to take off on a slight hill, or in the rain, or in the snow, or in the dirt, or on tarmac just plain quickly. As it is my VR6 mk3 gti will spin the tires all through any low speed autocross corners if I don't excercise restraint. I'me willing to give up another 10-15 percent for these reasons, it'll be a all round ass-kicker.


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## Gary C (Apr 11, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (smoked_g60)*

well i am only vaguly familar with the synchro..my main knowledge is in scoobys..
anyhow from my understanding of the synchro and how it works, even though it is not receiveing the majority of the power, it is still receiveing a percentage of the power at all times. correct me if i am wrong here anybody who really knows the synch setup.







which means you still have the drive shaft spinning and you still have the torque going to the rear wheels. If it is a system like on the skyline GTR where it is rear only then the fronts can come on well.. you still get the loss but it's isn't as evident. But the skyline has a far more complex/superior IMHO system, but it's also controlled by a computer, vs just a centre viscous diff i am not mistaken. 
oh and jabba sports beast is also cranking out a crap load of power which certainly helps over come the losses from the awd.







I wish i could dig up the article i have saved on my computer for the exact stats and mods on their car... 
besides they also have a lot of money thrown at the car, afterall they are THE jabba sport, famous for the world reknown jabba sport charger conversion on the g60 and g40 engines... 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## smoked_g60 (Jun 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (Gary C)*

This is my semi-educated syncro knowledge. 
The front wheels are driven full time. If you spun the driveshaft around with no resistance then the rear wheels will have turned about 9% more than the fronts. If you rolled the car along smooth ground then the rear wheel mechanism would be turning at a faster rate than the driveshaft. There is a ratchet type one-way clutch which enables the rear tires to turn the rear end faster than the driveshaft when there is no loss of traction. When traction is lost in the front wheels the one way clutch or spragg clutch bites down and locks the rear in AWD. The viscous coupler is part of this system which takes up the shock of suddenly engageing AWD. 
Anyone who'd like to learn more or talk all about Syncros join the yahoogroup syncrog60 and ther are 150 other syncro owners there!!!


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## ZEe16V (Apr 18, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (Phobic)*

1.8T syncro a2 built: around $15-20K low 13's at 1/4 mile
1.8L 8V Rabbit built by techtonics for drag racing (Naturally Aspirated): around $5k 12.8 seconds at 1/4 mile.
you justify what you are building the car for... braggin rights... or drag strip times. 
just my thought.
ZEe


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (Gary C)*

The jabba sport rallye golf is the one that got me interested in syncro. It ran 12.56 when performance vw magazine tested it. It was the second fast out of the bunch. I really like that car but I think I can do better for my money. I'm going to use the car primarily for the street. Every once and a while I will go out to track days to harass the Porsche Boys. I will also drag race it once and a while at the drag strip. I will mostly be doing street racing. I have narrowed it down to 3 possibilities:
3.1 vr6 w/ 100 shot 
1.8t w/ t3/t4 turbo
(2) 2.0 8v's w/ stg 1 turbo's on both (4wd baby)








what do you think? I have no idea how loud it would be inside a twin engine car. Do you think it would be bearable? I would run w/ the rear engine of when I'm driving around town. I would just use the rear engine when I went out to the races. 
The 1.8t would be cool but I'm not sure if it would be very reliable on the stock bottom end running over 20psi of boost. 
The vr6 has always been very attractive to me because of it's ferrari like sound and nice torque. My cousin is trying to talk me out of it because he thinks they are too common and he want's me to do something a little more unique.
What do you think?


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## swingwing205 (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (smoked_g60)*

Smoked G60:
From what I've been told, the Syncro system is constantly engaged at around 4 to 10% transfer at all times. I'm not sure if this is correct, but I have reason to believe there is at least 4% transfer at all times. Drive a Syncro, for example a Passat Syncro, and you'll feel a confident feel in the car that a FWD vehicle just doesn't have. There WILL be some robbing of power from performance from you engine because of AWD driveline loss, even when you're not really using you car in a way that the Syncro system would normally operate at full lock up. The Visco cuppling controls all that in a Syncro, not a computer. There WILL be some lock up at even low speeds....

Gary C:
I don't think the Skyline AWD system is any better than the Syncro set up, just different. It is slightly newer technology, but the Visco actuated AWD Syncro set up is very similar to the Porsche AWD set up, and it works very well for Porsche. I'm sure you know how many BHP's a 911 AWD can put down to the asphalt! A lot more than in stock form too.
The only real Achilles heel in the Syncro system is the undersized visco cuppling. There are however aftermarket options available to change that though.....


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## Gary C (Apr 11, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (swingwing205)*

swing: 
i actually agree yet disagree with you. Reason being there are many ways to modify the skyline's awd for tarmca useage using only a simple switch box and program.. 
whereas on the synch to do that you would need a new centre diff , or an adjustable clutch pack type unit (such as available for the subaru, adjustable from 36/65, 50/50 open, or 50/50 locked.. REALLY nice unit too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







) but again i don't think there is anything near to that for the synchro available.
another reason i favour the skyline's is the fact that there are more available upgrades/replacements for the diffs than the synch has...
either way, they are similar but different, each one has it's advantage, but for me it's subaru's system for gravel/off road rally, evo's or skylines for tarmac


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## smoked_g60 (Jun 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (swingwing205)*

Toby, Swingwing
Since neither of us really knows first hand it's pointless to argue about it. But it makes sense that the VC absorbs 4-10% of the available hp, but whether or not this power is actually sent to the wheels is yet to be determined. 
What kind of aftermaket fixes are there for the syncro? Besides the solid replacement?


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## swingwing205 (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (smoked_g60)*

Solid conversion? Huh? The only really useful stuff I know that's available aftermarket is poly bushings for Syncro equipped cars. 
I'll be engineering a special construction driveshaft for Syncro cars really soon, and my car will be the test bed. I'm sure I'll be selling complete propshafts for conversions too, after all my R&D is complete. My propshafts will allow for Syncro swaps into cars with the regular undertunnel, which will be the coolest part! Anyone who's ever swapped Syncro into anything other than a Corrado knows the undertunnel issue, and the pain in the butt it is!
The materials I'll be conctructing the propshaft from will make the shaft stronger, safer, and almost totally eliminate all vibrations, even at very high rotation speeds. A must for the true racer, or just the fanatic who wants a perfect ride.


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## smoked_g60 (Jun 4, 2001)

*Re: 1.8t, syncro, mk2 1/4 mile time preditions??? (swingwing205)*

The only real Achilles heel in the Syncro system is the undersized visco cuppling. There are however aftermarket options
available to change that though.....
_______
I thought you knew something that I didn't.

I've heard that VWM used this on their rallyes, it's probally only usefull for race conditions though. 
About your engineering project: Will you replace or modify the viscous coupler. Do you even know yet? 
Why not just make the propshaft from CF







J/K


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