# Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L



## mmooney86 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L - SOLVED*

Does anyone know a significant amount about the 2.5L timing system? My 2.5L has 92K miles on it and the timing is now off. It still runs but the CEL is on and the engine makes a strange rattling noise and loses all power. CEL is a P0011 which is timing over advanced. I removed the valve cover assuming the timing chain would be accessable and it is not. Anyone have any ideas/insite on how the timing system functions specific to this vehicle and what I could do to fix it. Oh and I already changed the oil again after 3000 miles on the previous oil as I know the system needs good oil flow and swaped the cam shaft position sensor...


_Modified by mmooney86 at 5:23 AM 10-6-2007_


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## TPizzle (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (mmooney86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mmooney86* »_ My 2.5L has 92K miles on it 

DAYUM!


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## rjohns1 (Aug 9, 2006)

The camshaft position sensor tells the ecu when to fire, check and make sure it is in correctly. Had similar problems with a mk3, haven't seen the one on mk5 but I'm just streching ideas to try to help. Good luck.


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## mmooney86 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (rjohns1)*

Yea I already did that. Thats why I replaced the sensor. I dont know whats going on with it. Anyone got a good DIY or at least a blow up of the timing system so I can adjust the timing?
Oh its a 2005.5 Jetta purchased may '05. So thats 92K miles in 2 Years.
I HATE this car


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## flynavyj (Jan 26, 2007)

im not an expert on these cars by any shot, nor all that "knowledgeable" on them either, but i'd have to wonder if a timing chain is going to cause the engine timing to advance, but if it did manage to jump a tooth, i guess that'd be possible. Had you tried a dealer to see what they thought was going on? 
PS- you might have the highest millage MKV around here.


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## VolksRacer2 (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: (flynavyj)*

If your car is throwing an excessive timing code, that means excessive IGNITION timing. Nothing to do with the timing chain...sounds like a possible ECU issue (since all ignition timing is computer controlled in these cars).
Take it to the dealer and have them diagnose the problem. If you do the actual work yourself, it will still end up saving you time and money in the long run.
P.S. You have to remove the tranny to replace timing chains. Talk to the guys in the VR6 forums...they're used to this set-up.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (VolksRacer2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksRacer2* »_
Take it to the dealer.

couldnt have said it any better.
geez, 92k in 2 years? are you suprised the car needs some maintenance? i surely hope not.


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (mmooney86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mmooney86* »_I removed the valve cover assuming the timing chain would be accessable and it is not..

Timing chains are typically not the easiest to get to, but they're usually still going to be set up the same way a time belt would be... still driven by the crank and should be behind some kind of timing cover.


_Modified by ninety9gl at 7:03 PM 9-10-2007_


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## N75 (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (ninety9gl)*

VW puts the timing chains on the tranny side, NOT the accessory side. Look at any VR6.
You can typically get to the upper guides/tensioner without any serious work, but to do a replacement means pulling the tranny.
It's still surprising you didn't see any chains under the valve cover, on the drivers side of the motor.


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## flynavyj (Jan 26, 2007)

i'd also expect to see some sort of chain on the top end of the motor, given the cams are there, along w/ the gears that the chain should be attached too. I'd also expect an intermediate cog that would swap between the primary drive chain, and the cam chain, it would reduce the length and slack in the chain that could lead to jumping a tooth years down the line...but would add to the complexity, need to take a look at the engine schematic again.


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## N75 (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: (flynavyj)*

Just look at any VR6 timing chain post. Goes from crank to intermediate shaft, then from IM to cams. I-5 should be the same.


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (N75)*

You're right... and while I still don't think the OP has a timing issue or should take it anywhere but the dealer... but if it helps (simply on the subject of the chains, but just since it was brought up), here's the only two pics from the tech pdf about the timing set (for those that haven't seen it):









_Modified by ninety9gl at 9:50 PM 9-10-2007_


_Modified by ninety9gl at 9:51 PM 9-10-2007_


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (VolksRacer2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksRacer2* »_*If your car is throwing an excessive timing code, that means excessive IGNITION timing. * Nothing to do with the timing chain...sounds like a possible ECU issue (since all ignition timing is computer controlled in these cars).
Take it to the dealer and have them diagnose the problem. If you do the actual work yourself, it will still end up saving you time and money in the long run.
P.S. You have to remove the tranny to replace timing chains. Talk to the guys in the VR6 forums...they're used to this set-up.

Bingo.... 



_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 4:22 PM 9-10-2007_


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## anti bling (Dec 13, 2003)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*

just a thought.... have you thought about installing new spark plugs? as i skimed this thread i didnt see anything about the plugs. i would start there. and it's cheeper than the timing chains!


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## jtrujillo86 (Aug 21, 2005)

*Re: (anti bling)*

HOLY GOD! 92K miles...
How has she held up??


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## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

*Re: (jtrujillo86)*

apparently okay until about 92,000mi


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## mmooney86 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (kaner05jetta)*

Well @ 10K miles the clutch and hydrolics powering it blew to pieces. This is fairly common now adays as you can read in this forums. I was the first case I found of this. That was Aug '05. Dealer made me pay for it saying abuse. Now that I have 82K miles on a new clutch theres a pending lawsuit








Ive had rear brakes done @ 17K, 33K, 49K, 66K, and 85K miles. The last 2 times I did it myself since VW was charging $300+ each time.
Fronts are still fine orignal pads!
Mobil 1 5w-40 every 10K.
Both doors inside handles stopped working @ 35K miles at the same time. Dealer fixed. I had to wait a couple weeks though and was climbing out the windows
Both woofers - premium sound - blew at the same time at 48K miles. Dealer replaced under warranty and the new system is 10x better.
Plugs have been changed once at 60K miles
Air filter was changed at 50K miles
And yes I think I might have the oldest one around
BTW it is spark timing and I did replace the plugs but the dick at pepboys sold me plugs for an 06 which ARE NOT the same (FYI) The autolite 4164's that are supposed to fit first of all at like a 11/16 socket (Not a 13/16 nor a 5/8) secondly the thread is narrower then the hole in the cylinder. The plugs I used the first time I changed my plugs were E3.64 (GREAT PLUGS) I ordered a new set from JC Whitney to rule that out.
Ironicly I just gave a plug to the plugs!
Oh and I flushed the engine oil system and changed the oil in response to this timing issue
I replaced the cam shaft position sensor
I tore off my valve covers and visually inspected valves / cams / etc and no visible issues.
Hopefully plugs do it.
BTW it now gets misfire on all cylinders randomly. But NOT at WOT. I can get on it and its fine. Cruise 5th gear @ 3000RPM constant misfiring and therefore ROUGH engine.
Yes I know my cat is prob already dead from this
Any ideas anyone to fix this multiple misfire issue?


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## Crubb3d Rymz (Dec 25, 2006)

*Re: (mmooney86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mmooney86* »_ autolite

theres your problem


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## 007rabbit (Sep 20, 2006)

*Re: (Crubb3d Rymz)*

any updates on this? pm me if you need some help with anything, im a local. i am also a mechanic so let me know, i can talk to my audi tech buddies. pm me if you interested.


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## jtrujillo86 (Aug 21, 2005)

*Re: (mmooney86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mmooney86* »_Well @ 10K miles the clutch and hydrolics powering it blew to pieces. This is fairly common now adays as you can read in this forums. I was the first case I found of this. That was Aug '05. Dealer made me pay for it saying abuse. Now that I have 82K miles on a new clutch theres a pending lawsuit








Ive had rear brakes done @ 17K, 33K, 49K, 66K, and 85K miles. The last 2 times I did it myself since VW was charging $300+ each time.
Fronts are still fine orignal pads!
Mobil 1 5w-40 every 10K.
Both doors inside handles stopped working @ 35K miles at the same time. Dealer fixed. I had to wait a couple weeks though and was climbing out the windows
Both woofers - premium sound - blew at the same time at 48K miles. Dealer replaced under warranty and the new system is 10x better.
Plugs have been changed once at 60K miles
Air filter was changed at 50K miles
And yes I think I might have the oldest one around
BTW it is spark timing and I did replace the plugs but the dick at pepboys sold me plugs for an 06 which ARE NOT the same (FYI) The autolite 4164's that are supposed to fit first of all at like a 11/16 socket (Not a 13/16 nor a 5/8) secondly the thread is narrower then the hole in the cylinder. The plugs I used the first time I changed my plugs were E3.64 (GREAT PLUGS) I ordered a new set from JC Whitney to rule that out.
Ironicly I just gave a plug to the plugs!
Oh and I flushed the engine oil system and changed the oil in response to this timing issue
I replaced the cam shaft position sensor
I tore off my valve covers and visually inspected valves / cams / etc and no visible issues.
Hopefully plugs do it.
BTW it now gets misfire on all cylinders randomly. But NOT at WOT. I can get on it and its fine. Cruise 5th gear @ 3000RPM constant misfiring and therefore ROUGH engine.
Yes I know my cat is prob already dead from this
Any ideas anyone to fix this multiple misfire issue?


Ummm...the plugs were supposed to be changed much sooner than that as was the air filter. I'm not saying your problem lies is delayed maintenance, but I'm sure it didn't help any.
Just a thought...
- Jeremy.


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## mmooney86 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (jtrujillo86)*

I dont remember when plugs were supposed to be changed but 50K miles on a set of plugs is nothing special
and yes I should have changed the air filter sooner but I was lazy. And not changing the airfilter would not have caused this issue. If anything it only lessened performance and I did not but the 2.5L for its giddy up.
So anywho....
I changed the plugs with the correct plugs and still no dice still misfiring like a mofo. Gonna prob have to take it to the dealer. Although with the dealers around me Im sure Im gonna get screwed


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## KoF (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: (mmooney86)*

Go to Dover VW, the best service I've had http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif All MD dealers around me sucks (always want to charge you for something or sell you stuff that you don't need)


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## eline1221 (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (mmooney86)*

I'm a VW tech, this morning I replaced the intake cam adjuster and solenoid valve for the adjuster on an 07 jetta w/6500 miles for the exact symptoms you described, car is fixed and gone, hope that helps


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## mmooney86 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (eline1221)*

Can you briefly describe how to replace these parts and a guesstimated cost? The only codes for the MIL are misfiring misfiring and misfiring on all cylinders








Oh and it currently rough idles and then misfires under light throttle. LIke when I am maintaining a speed. Misfiring under light throttle occurs at just about any RPM but no very low RPMs. Starts at 1500RPMs or so. It'll occur at red line or 2000RPM.
WOT at any RPM no misfiring at all. 5th gear @ 30MPH I can WOT and it wont misfire.


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## eline1221 (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (mmooney86)*

well there are special tools, one to lock the cams, one to lock the chain tensioner in a compressed state, 14mm 12 point socket to loosen the cam adjuster bolt (and its tight) and a counter hold wrench as not to stress the cams or chain while breaking the bolt loose. Valve cover, coolant flange and upper timing cover need to be removed. In order to remove the lower bolts on the timing cover there is a hard coolant pipe that needs to be removed, it has a clip at a flange under the intake manifold, you would need to get to it from under the car. Once that tensioner is relieved and tensioner bolt is removed, pull the tensioner guide that is at the front of the motor and remove the tensioner, install the new one making sure to not let the chain slip teeth, there is also the solenoid valve that is on the front of the head right near the timing cover, it has an electrical connection, just remove the torx 20 screw, pull it out and install new one. Reassemble in reverse order and find a way to clear faults. 
As far as cost, I would have to find out tomorrow how much the tensioner, solenoid valve, valve cover gasket, and gallon of coolant is.


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## mmooney86 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (eline1221)*

How about anyone agree with me it sounds like a vacuum leak? Think about it... Vacuum leak would cause lean condition and therefore spark wouldnt be able to ignite mixture at idle or medium throttle. but at wide open throttle it would run fine exactly as my car is doing. Anyone agree? Anyone have a vacuum diagram for this car? Any suggestions on testing this theroy?


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## mmooney86 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (mmooney86)*

Yup it was a vacuum leak. The underside of the intake manifold is cracked almost in half! Im sorry theres NO REASON for that. Time to replace the manifold! Maybe for an 08?


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## T62 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (mmooney86)*

time for an 08 what?
You mean something other than VW right?>


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## mmooney86 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (T62)*

08 VW 2.5L intake manifold


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (eline1221)*

If you nip the tab off that metal coolant ppipe you dont need to disconnect it from under the intake. The flange and side cover will come out without problems.


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## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: Dead MKV Jetta 2.5L (mmooney86)*

I have a 1.8t that had a bad cam tensioner and did exactly what you are talking about. Vac leak should not be able to make the car run so badly unless it was REALLY bad (like a hose not even connected).. When you run WOT there is a natural tensioning of the chain which eliminates the misfiring, when you get off it the tensioner is supposed to pick up the slack but it can't. Then it misfires. 
Lol.. just read your update... yeah... a manifold cracked, that would be enough of a vac leak.. lol
This went on my 1.8t at about 110k miles.

_Quote, originally posted by *mmooney86* »_How about anyone agree with me it sounds like a vacuum leak? Think about it... Vacuum leak would cause lean condition and therefore spark wouldnt be able to ignite mixture at idle or medium throttle. but at wide open throttle it would run fine exactly as my car is doing. Anyone agree? Anyone have a vacuum diagram for this car? Any suggestions on testing this theroy?


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