# What's so great about Quattro?



## BLK9GEN (Sep 27, 2001)

First off, let me say that I'm not trying to bash Audi in any way. I just always hear people in the Car Lounge talk about Quattro like it's God's gift to the automotive world and it made me think. I know back in the day when most cars were either FWD or RWD it was widely accepted that Quattro was the best AWD system available. But what about now? I mean, there are a lot of AWD systems on the market today, all of which are newer than the current Quattro (ATTESA-ETS, SH-AWD, VTM-4, 4Matic, X-Drive, etc.). I'll admit to not knowing much about the pros/cons of each of the AWD systems, but is Quattro still all that special/great when compared to the newer AWD systems offered on the competition? 
(On a side note, I'm referring to the Torsen AWD system used on most Audis, not the Haldex system on the TT which doesn't seem to get nearly as much praise)


----------



## DankFD3S (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jwaters943)*

Subarus Symmetrical AWD has been the most advanced in the world for quite some time now, now Honda is claiming it with the SH-AWD.


----------



## All_Texan (Dec 14, 2003)

it allows u to win in the I weigh more than u category
but seriously, I have read the new RL has the most advanced (not to be confused with best, altho it may be) AWD system urrently available.


----------



## BLK9GEN (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (DankFD3S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DankFD3S* »_Subarus Symmetrical AWD has been the most advanced in the world for quite some time now, now Honda is claiming it with the SH-AWD.

Which is Haldex AWD (like Volvo) is it not? 
I do know that Subaru only recently started referring to it as Symmetrical AWD.


----------



## tgodbout (May 7, 2004)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jwaters943)*

Subaru is not Haldex.


----------



## jonbaby420 (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jwaters943)*

You haven't seen that Audi commercial wherein the Champion RS6 takes off from the line and leaves the rest of the pack in the DTM race, have you?












_Modified by jonbaby420 at 4:20 PM 2-2-2005_


----------



## J-Tim (May 26, 2000)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (DankFD3S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DankFD3S* »_Subarus Symmetrical AWD has been the most advanced in the world for quite some time now, now Honda is claiming it with the SH-AWD.

What's the actual difference between Torsen and Subaru's anyway ?


----------



## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jonbaby420)*

Anyways, nothing's so great about quattro/torsen. What is noteworthy, is how reliable/durable it is.


_Modified by SuperGroove at 5:26 PM 2-2-2005_


----------



## passatW86sp (Mar 27, 2004)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (J-Tim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J-Tim* »_
What's the actual difference between Torsen and Subaru's anyway ?

Not much expept it has just a few traits that make it the best


----------



## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jonbaby420)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jonbaby420* »_Oh yeah...















post fixed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

don't forget, I think it was also a Speed GT race too


----------



## Jettavr666 (Dec 5, 2000)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (J-Tim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J-Tim* »_What's the actual difference between Torsen and Subaru's anyway ?

theres not a huge difference between manual subaru's and torsen AWD, there both 50/50 distributions, and can vary power from front to rear. The only difference is that subaru's use a viscous center diff, and audi uses a torsen diff. 
back to the original question, Today Torsen Quattro isnt that special but its still wrolds above some AWD systems, such as part time viscous systems like the ones GM uses in front based applications, or some bad full time systems such as jaguars traction 4, or really mercedes 4matic, which relys too much on electronics. Still newer systems like honda's SH-awd, or nissans ATTESA, and subaru's with the electronic center clutch pack (ala STI) are very good, and in many ways better than quattro. Quattro is very relaible though, and it is a symetrical system like subaru which makes for more even power distribution.


----------



## MKIII-JP (Dec 3, 2003)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (Jettavr666)*

I don't know about the rest of you but I LIKE hard parts (metal)
and the fact that the torsen is just that ALL METAL make me like it!
VS.
A viscius witch uses a principal of fluid expansion due to temp against disks that DO wear!
I think that their are pros and cons to bolth systems but I do like the torsion better! NOT just because it is (VAG) eithor!
Jp


----------



## Mike! (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jwaters943)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwaters943* »_
Which is Haldex AWD (like Volvo) is it not? 


Though SH-AWD is designed for transverse-engined vehicles like Haldex, that's where the similarities end.
Haldex, in a nut shell, sends 100% of power to the front wheels until front wheel slippage causes the differential to send power to the rear. More recent variations of Haldex (Gen. III?) allow for 'pre-loading' the differential to send power to the rear faster, and even gen. I Haldex systems can be 'modded' with a different Haldex controller to encourage more rear-wheel-drive. Check the R32 and TT forums.
SH-AWD is derived from Honda's experience with the fwd Prelude SH. The SH had a special computer-controlled front differential called ATTS, or Active Torque Transfer System. Based on steering input and yaw sensors, ATTS could send 100% of the engine's torque to the outside front wheel, helping the fwd car pivot through a turn and feel wonderfully 'neutral'. SH-AWD employs the same yaw sensors and trick differential, but with all four wheels. I believe the default is 70% front / 30% rear, which can switch to 30/70 or anything in between. 100% of the power *to each axle* however can still be sent to just one wheel. 
Other good AWD systems, like Subaru's VTD with VDC available on the Outback and JDM Forester, can essentially accomplish the same task. Using yaw sensors again to determine what the driver's trying to do, it can individually brake the inside wheels, forcing a similar pivoting, to counteract understeer, and individually brake the outside wheels to counteract oversteer. My dad has an '01 VDC, and it's amazing how hard it is to get it to break loose in the wet or snow. Incredible traction.
Despite similar functions, the SH-AWD system is very intriguing, and there is some case to call it 'the most advanced' if not appreciably better than the best from Subaru and Audi. The Prelude SH I drove was sublime; hard to believe it was a front wheel drive car. So, despite not having driven an RL, the potential of this system is astounding. If they put it on a TSX, I might consider one again.
Mike


----------



## urabus_xrw (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (MikeNoGo)*

didn't 90s quattros come with a manual locking diff via a button near the shifter? I vaguely rember such a buton when i test drove an audi 90 sport.


----------



## Jettavr666 (Dec 5, 2000)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (urabus_xrw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *urabus_xrw* »_didn't 90s quattros come with a manual locking diff via a button near the shifter? I vaguely rember such a buton when i test drove an audi 90 sport.

yeah early quattro really had very little to the systems used today, they used to have locking center and rear diffs instead of limited slip centers and traction control systems.


----------



## Mark Five (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (Jettavr666)*

Is it true that AWD's suck up a lot of gas?


----------



## roccostud (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (Sw1tch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sw1tch* »_Is it true that AWD's suck up a lot of gas?

from personal experiece yes they do. not alot more but the extra weight and the power the engine has to used to turn all the wheels does hurt fuel mileage


----------



## passatvr6er (Jul 7, 2002)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (Sw1tch)*

Look whats used in many many racing applications... Torsen Diffs. If quattro used 3 torsens... it would be pretty awesome.


----------



## Harv (Oct 31, 2004)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jwaters943)*

back when the quattro first came out it was banned from some races because it have a ''unfair advantage''....


----------



## PackRat (Apr 14, 2002)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (pagermancarlover)*

First rule about Quattro! DON'T TALK ABOUT QUATTRO!


----------



## PseudoEnthusiast (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (pagermancarlover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pagermancarlover* »_back when the quattro first came out it was banned from some races because it have a ''unfair advantage''....

Unfair marketing advantage?


----------



## the_friendly_nihilist (Feb 26, 1999)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jwaters943)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwaters943* »_... there are a lot of AWD systems on the market today, all of which are newer than the current Quattro (ATTESA-ETS, SH-AWD, VTM-4, 4Matic, X-Drive, etc.).


while this topic may lend itself to numerous scientific explanations of each AWD system and _expert_ car lounge opinions, i tend to like quattro because it just rolls off the tounge. the others, not so suave.
so:
quattro > everything else awd
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## djentranced (Mar 19, 2003)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (cvovp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cvovp* »_

while this topic may lend itself to numerous scientific explanations of each AWD system and _expert_ car lounge opinions, i tend to like quattro because it just rolls off the tounge. the others, not so suave.
so:
quattro > everything else awd
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
















Amen. 
Q-u-a-t-r-r-r-r-o


----------



## sieben (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (jwaters943)*

I figure it's like this.
Torsen is simpler than some of the "smart" awd systems. It's mechanical vs some of the others being more electronically based. 
If you're gonna carry the weight of an AWD system, why not use it all the time? You're probably right.... no one NEEDS AWD.... surely it DOES weigh more. It makes a car weigh more, accelerate slower, corner worse. 
But I don't understand the logic behind having a car with the drivetrain to all 4 wheels but not using it all the time... volvo, mercedes, etc....
It's all a matter of taste and preference. I love BMWs, (I've had 4) they're solid and tight. I love Audis (I;ve had 2) , they're solid and maybe not as tight, but I enjoy my A4 very much.........


----------



## 00glxvr6boy (May 17, 2004)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (MikeNoGo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikeNoGo* »_
Though SH-AWD is designed for transverse-engined vehicles like Haldex, that's where the similarities end.
Haldex, in a nut shell, sends 100% of power to the front wheels until front wheel slippage causes the differential to send power to the rear. More recent variations of Haldex (Gen. III?) allow for 'pre-loading' the differential to send power to the rear faster, and even gen. I Haldex systems can be 'modded' with a different Haldex controller to encourage more rear-wheel-drive. Check the R32 and TT forums.
SH-AWD is derived from Honda's experience with the fwd Prelude SH. The SH had a special computer-controlled front differential called ATTS, or Active Torque Transfer System. Based on steering input and yaw sensors, ATTS could send 100% of the engine's torque to the outside front wheel, helping the fwd car pivot through a turn and feel wonderfully 'neutral'. SH-AWD employs the same yaw sensors and trick differential, but with all four wheels. I believe the default is 70% front / 30% rear, which can switch to 30/70 or anything in between. 100% of the power *to each axle* however can still be sent to just one wheel. 
Other good AWD systems, like Subaru's VTD with VDC available on the Outback and JDM Forester, can essentially accomplish the same task. Using yaw sensors again to determine what the driver's trying to do, it can individually brake the inside wheels, forcing a similar pivoting, to counteract understeer, and individually brake the outside wheels to counteract oversteer. My dad has an '01 VDC, and it's amazing how hard it is to get it to break loose in the wet or snow. Incredible traction.
Despite similar functions, the SH-AWD system is very intriguing, and there is some case to call it 'the most advanced' if not appreciably better than the best from Subaru and Audi. The Prelude SH I drove was sublime; hard to believe it was a front wheel drive car. So, despite not having driven an RL, the potential of this system is astounding. If they put it on a TSX, I might consider one again.
Mike

BIG http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to an informative post!


----------



## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (00glxvr6boy)*

I think there is some confustion going on here on the different generations of quattro. The 90 Sport (typ89) did not have a center locker. It had a TorSen center.

I 
Open front differential
Open center differential, manually lockable*
Open rear differential, manually lockable*
1981-87 Audi Quattro turbo coupe
1984-87 Audi 4000 quattro
1986-87 Audi 5000 quattro
VW Quantum Syncro
II 
Open front differential
Torsen center differential
Open rear differential, manually lockable**
1988-91 Audi Quattro turbo coupe
1989-95 Audi 80/90 quattro, Coupe quattro, S2, RS2
1988-95 Audi 100/200 quattro, S4, S6
III 
Open front differential
Planetary gear center with electronically-controlled
multi-plate locking clutch
(Torsen center differential with manual-transmission)
Torsen rear differential
1990-94 Audi V8
IV 
Open front differential with EDL***
Torsen center differential
Open rear differential with EDL***

1995.5 Audi S6
1996-curr Audi A4, S4, RS4, A6, S6, A8, S8
1998-curr VW Passat 4Motion
Haldex 
Open front differential with EDL***
Haldex clutch center, electronically controlled
Open rear differential with EDL***
Normally FWD, but Haldex direct torque to the rear
when slip occurs
2000-curr Audi TT, A3, S3
2000-curr VW Golf/Jetta(Bora) 4Motion 

* ABS disabled when locked (if equipped)
** ABS disabled when locked; automatically unlocks when speed exceeds 15mph
*** Electronic Differential Lock: uses ABS to selectively brake a slipping wheel
IMHO, the best quattro ever was Gen II, TorSens Center witha locker rear...followed closely by Gen I.


----------



## Quattro Krant (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (duandcc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duandcc* »_IMHO, the best quattro ever was Gen II, TorSens Center witha locker rear...followed closely by Gen I. 

 I think you got that bass ackwards there Dave


----------



## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (Quattro Krant)*

Nah, having a Torsen center works like having a limted slip..you can put a LOT more power to the road without wheel spin...


----------



## Quattro Krant (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (duandcc)*

I love my Quattro 87 and 86 4000cs. I couldn't imagine any Quattro set up being better


----------



## OilSpotz (May 14, 2001)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (duandcc)*

Hell, i never unlock my diffs. I enjoy hearing the rear tires hop and squeal around every corner in the dry weather.
That stuff about the prelude sounds pretty cool though. I kinda want to go drive one now.


----------



## Quattro Krant (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: What's so great about Quattro? (OilSpotz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OilSpotz* »_Hell, i never unlock my diffs. I enjoy hearing the rear tires hop and squeal around every corner in the dry weather.
 Tell me your kidding? And in case your not, No, I don't know where you can get a rear diff


----------

