# APR Presents The BFGoodrich MaxR! -- Build Thread --



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Follow the Build on Facebook!*



Followers will be entered to receive *FREE products* from APR, BFGoodrich Tires, Volkswagen Racing UK, ADV.1 Wheels and others. 

http://www.facebook.com/BFGMaxR

*The Concept*

The MaxR concept began months ago with an idea from our friends at BFGoodrich tires in Greenville, South Carolina. The plan was simple: build the ultimate daily driven Golf R and document every step of the way. Volkswagen gave us excellent platform right from the factory floor, but there's always room for improvement. Every build thread on the planet tries to fill the void missed from the factory. Some focus on looks, some focus on handling and some focus on power, but ours will focus on all. Part of the driving experience includes a passionate connection between your vehicle and the road, and that's where APR and BFGoodrich tires step in. The entire driving experience will be enhanced, and we'll show you how to take your Golf R to the next level.

You may be wondering how BFGoodrich Tires fits into this build. Tires are one of the most crucial upgrades anyone can make, yet are often the least discussed. With so many tires to choose from, it's difficult determining what tires work best for you. Months back APR tested the BFGoodrich Tires G-Force Sport Comp-2 tire on employee and fleet vehicles before green lighting the MaxR project. The results were quite amazing as the tires gave superior acceleration, cornering and braking ability over other high performance tires and completely transformed vehicles running on bargain brand tires.

*The Build*

MaxR will be outfitted with an APR Stage 4 engine build capable of over 500 horsepower. APR Motorsport's and Volkswagen Racing UK's vast catalog of race-proven parts will increase chassis rigidity, sharpen handling and maximize braking power while still maintaining daily drivability. ADV.1 light- weight wheels will shave weight off each corner and make room for a wide set of BFGoodrich Tires G-Force Sport Comp-2 tires. Volkswagen's and Audi's catalog of European and S/RS model parts will be used to lighten and strengthen many OEM components and increase MaxR's visual appeal. We are not leaving anything out on this build so stay tuned for many more updates along the way.

*The Tests*

To show how far MaxR has progressed, testing will take place at Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds. The fully built MaxR will go head-to-head against a completely stock Golf R on a set of stock tires and BFGoodrich Tires G-Force Sport Comp-2 tires. Then to show the importance of tires to the entire build, MaxR's BFGoodrich Tires will be removed and the same tests will be performed on the stock tires. This data will be far more valuable than any single dyno graph or straight-line acceleration test and should make for some exciting photos and videos! It's time to show the world what the Volkswagen Golf R can really do!

*The Photos*

Any build is not complete without stock photos. We took delivery of our Golf R on a rather foggy morning and after only a few miles, were ready to pull the motor and get to work! Here's how it looked on day one.

*Click the images for large, high resolution, desktop wallpaper size photos*

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Stay tuned for updates and remember to follow the build on Facebook for the latest news and to be entered into our FREE Raffle!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

First thing's first, we put MaxR on the dyno to collect baseline data. 

We use a dynapack all wheel drive dynamometer which removes the wheels and places power absorbers directly to the wheel hubs. Using this method is great for tuning and repeatability. Because the wheels are removed, we don't have to worry about variances between tire pressure, tire grip, wheel/tire weight, tie down strap tension or surface friction on the rollers. No one can change tie down strap tension, wheels or tire pressure to alter the numbers (intentionally or unintentionally) so the results are fairly consistent. There's no calibration required for the rollers either. We don't need to worry about the car jumping off the dyno and you never need a bunch of people to sit on the car to hold it down when dealing with real high power! In the end this creates results which greatly help engineering ensure accuracy between multiple tests. 

The Golf R uses a Haldex all wheel drive system that essentially uses a clutch to couple a driveshaft to the rear differential to send power to the rear wheels. It's not mechanically linked all of the time, meaning there isn't always an identical percentage of power delivered to the front or rear wheels. On the road, you could have most of the power sent to the front, while at other times, more may be in the rear. To keep results consistent, it's best to disable this system when dynoing. Furthermore, since we use a dyno that's not mechanically linked (IE, when the front wheels move, there's nothing making the rear wheels move at the same rate) leaving the Haldex system enabled could cause inconsistent results and even damage to the system over time. 

When collecting dyno data it's important to compare results using the same dyno, the same setup, and as close to the same conditions as physically possible. In the before test the car will be run in FWD mode and in the after tests the car will be run in FWD mode, meaning the delta, or the difference between stock and modified, will be the same as if the car was compared in AWD mode (If it ran and read correctly in AWD mode, which it doesn't). 

The dynapack system also offers a few other advantages for our calibration team. This is a loaded dyno system that allows us to load the engine and hold it at any RPM we choose. This means the Engineers can sit on the dyno all day long testing different calibration variables at different RPM points to see if the change is positive or negative. It's an excellent tuning resource and the Engineers are pleased to have it at their disposal. 

So without further ado, here's how MaxR preformed right off the dealership floor! 

On average, the MaxR put down to the front wheels 257 ft-lbs of torque and 240 horsepower on 93 Octane (RON+MON)/2 fuel. Estimating drivetrain loss, we believe this to be in the neighborhood of 270 Ft-LBS of torque and horsepower as some torque is lost when transmitted through the transmission. This is very close to what VW rates the Golf R from the factory in Europe with a lower lower octane fuel, so it makes sense to see a little more than VW advertises. Every dyno reads differently so it's normal to see more torque than the factory advertises (They simplify the numbers anyways so their graphs are always straight and smooth). 

The North American Golf R is rated lower than the European Golf R, but having access to both vehicles and both ECU's from a calibration and power stand point, they are identical. So don't worry! All of you guys who are still stock are not missing out on any power compared to the Euro Golf R! It's the same. 

Here's the dyno chart with power to the front wheels. Our Stage 4 results will be compared to these numbers.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

These looks pretty cool!

Beto


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## One Bad MKV (Jul 27, 2010)

very nice......


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We just picked our first winner on our facebook page. If your name is Jon and you participated, check out the page for details... you may have a pretty sweet OGIO bag headed your way.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

So we decided it was time to make more power. Out comes the engine!


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Sweet!


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Impressive knowledge and techs for this type of work. Impressed.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The BFG MaxR now features upgraded TT RS uprights! 

The uprights correct problems created from lowering the car. Basically as you start lowering, you have a tendency to alter the stock geometry in a negative way, if you go too far, which can introduce bump steer. The TT RS suspension was designed to be lower than the Golf R, so a lower upright was created which helps correct some of the geometry alterations. 

Another added benefit of the uprights is strength and weight. The TT RS uprights are much stronger (we've actually seen the OEM GTI parts crack on our race cars) and they drop a healthy 4 LBS on each front wheel (from 10lbs to 6lbs). 

Not too bad! 

Light: TT RS 
Dark: Golf R 
 
 
 

Stock Weight: 
 
 

TT RS Weight:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Look how flat the control arms sit! Ohhh, I think I see other upgrades too. Stay tuned!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

A big part of the MaxR build will focus around tightening up a few soft areas around the engine and transmission. The factory Golf R is designed to work for a wide range of customers in loads of different situations. Comfort is always a big concern and one way of making things a bit more comfortable is to give up performance. VW did this was by using soft Engine, Transmission and Subframe mounts. They are not necessarily poor from the factory, don't get me wrong, but there is plenty of room for improvement for the enthusiast. 

The factory mounts allow quite a bit of engine movement when accelerating quickly off the line and between shifts. On front wheel drive cars, you'll even experience wheel hop in slippery conditions which can ultimately lead to broken components. To reduce the slop, we worked with VWR to tighten things up a bit. 

First item to be replaced were the stock subframe mounts as seen here. 

 

These two pieces are pressed into the subframe and allow for quite a bit of movement. This part alone makes the creates improvement for the money. Engine vibration is kept to a minimum so you still have a very comfortable ride and movement between shifts and take up off the line is much improved. 

Here's a shot with the new mount installed: 

 

And here's a little product photography and product page with more info: 
http://www.goapr.com/products/mounts_vwr_vaga5.html 









_Please note, this is a photo for the old GTI mount. The Golf R Mount has a notch in it to clear the swaybar._ 

Next up on the list are the engine and transmission mounts. These will add a bit more in cabin vibration, which for some may not be ideal, but others report it makes them feel more connected to the car. Vibration is still minimal compared to some solid race mounts, which are overkill for almost even fully built, track dedicated, race cars. Replacing these two parts finishes up where the subframe mount left off. Both the engine and transmission will be unable to rock as much as stock under heavy take offs and between shifts, which can really make a difference when you're trying to get every last bit out of the car. 

Here's the stock engine mount vs the VWR engine mount: 

Stock 
 
 

VWR 








 


Transmission Mounts: 

Stock 
 
 


VWR 








 


And you can read more about them here on our product page: 
http://www.goapr.com/products/mounts_vwr_vaga5.html


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The Golf R rear end got some attention today when we decided to replace several of the factory bushings with new poly bushings. If you've ever looked at the stock bushings, you'll notice they flex easy even under light pressure. Most are not even solid and they tend to wear out over time. We installed new poly bushings with a shore A rating of 95 & 85. They are hard but they still do offer some light flex which is necessary for a street car. They also are not squeaky and extremely harsh like a race car setup, but the reduction in flex should result in the car doing what we expect it to do! 

Here's a component overview so you know what were are looking at. 

 

Starting from the left, here in red is the trailing arm bushing. They are slightly softer than the other bushings to allow for a little more flex for handeling but not as much as stock. 

 

After that we have the upper and lower control arm inner bushings: 

 

 

Both control arm bushings: 

 

And finally the bushings on the lower rear spring perchs.


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## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

In.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm excited to see the Pertpetual Pictures feature on these bad boy !


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sorry for the delay in updates, but here's another one! 

One of the next items changed on the Golf R comes from our friends down at Harding Performance and APR Australia, the Supaloy By Harding Performance Control Arm / Castor Upgrade. We replaced the control arms with an upgraded set run on other VAG vehicles which are then modified by Harding Performance. They are stronger than stock, lighter than stock and polished. On top of that, the control arm bushings are also lighter and use a stiffer compound bushing material that's also slightly offset compared to stock. This changes the geometry slightly to give just a little more grip resulting in less understeer. 

Speaking with APR Australia they informed me these do gain 1.5 degreese of positive static caster, which give you an "Anti Lift/Dive" advantage. The rear caster bushing actually came from about 12 months of extensive road / track testing by APR Australia's test fleet of cars which included 4 day Targa Tasmania Race, World Time Attack and Motor's Tuner Challenge. 

Over all this was a nice upgrade. It will take a beating on the track and saves us another 4-5 lbs of unsprung mass on both sides! It all adds up in the end and every little bit counts!



Upgraded Control Arm Installed


Upgraded Control Arm Bushing with Offset Mounting Point


Stock Control Arm


Stock Control Arm Bushing


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Oh how I want those Passat control arms. 

Are the TTRS spindles the same as the passat ones?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> Oh how I want those Passat control arms.
> 
> Are the TTRS spindles the same as the passat ones?


The TTRS Spindles are different. It's not a direct bolt on. We had to so some modifications to make it all work.


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## .:R Driven (Dec 6, 2011)

opcorn:

Doing work Arin


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## OVRWRKD (Jul 1, 2010)

Awesome build up...I think I need a new job


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## FACTORYBOOST (Sep 12, 2011)

OVRWRKD said:


> Awesome build up...I think I need a new job


x2 :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We're sitting a bit lower today thanks to our new suspension system! 

http://www.goapr.com/products/suspension_vwr_streetsport_vaga5.html

We installed a Volkswagen Racing UK Golf R StreetSport+ Adjustable Damping Coilover System with Progressive Springs and VWR Camber plates. 














The suspension is great. VWR has spent quite a bit of time fine tuning the spring rate and valving combination on this kit to deliver something that's great for the track and road. It lowers the car just right without going too far down and features adjustable dampening which allows for 12 levels of adjustment. 

I'm really impressed with this system and I actually have it on my own GTI. 

The damping is adjusted by knobs that are accessible without tools or without removing the suspension from the car. This means you can make an adjustment without much work and then feel the difference right away. When we took our APR Golf R to the Nürburgring, we simply went a few clicks stiffer until everything was dialed in. It's also only 1 adjustment knob and not two. With two or more adjustment knobs, VWR found that almost no customers were ever able to dial in the suspension correctly. This includes even other makes and models out there. The VWR system only has 12 adjustments that make a difference you can feel right away, meaning each time you click the knob, if you've gone too stiff or soft, you'll know it and will be able to easily return back to the preset location. 










The camber plates were great too. They simply drop in and don't require any cutting. Removal back to stock is easy. With these on board, we were able to make a few more degrease of adjustment to make everything right. 










Also, at the same time we added new prototype VWR front and rear swaybars with adjustable stiffness settings. Our friends in the UK have tested these for quite some time to this should be added to the product line up shortly! 











Here's a bit more information on the other bars we currently have available:
http://www.goapr.com/products/swaybars_vwr_vaga5.html


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## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

The Golf R are just an S3 in a golf suit?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CLestat said:


> The Golf R are just an S3 in a golf suit?


There are many differences.


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

Arin - 

Did you guys install the camber plates ?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Arin -
> 
> Did you guys install the camber plates ?


Yes


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The Golf R features a Haldex all wheel drive system which is different to traditional Audi all wheel drive systems as found in the A4/S4. The rear differential is coupled via a clutch which is controlled by a Haldex computer unit. Under different driving situations, the haldex controller will send torque to the rear wheels at different rates. From the factory, this system works well, but there's a great deal of improvement to be made, especially when modifying the vehicle as heavily as we are. 

With the upgraded Haldex control unit, we have the ability to run in 3 different modes, all selectable by a switch installed in the cabin. Eco mode reduces torque transfer while cruising but will engage the system if you enter into traction control situation. Stock mode operates basically similar to the way the system was before modified. Race mode sends nearly maximum torque transfer to the rear wheels during acceleration and spirited driving. It reacts faster to your input and transfers torque faster than actually available from the engine. 

Obviously, we've kept max in Race mode most of the time so far and over all, we're not disappointed. Understeer is greatly reduced and the results are more predictable on the track. 

Stock Controller Installed:


Upgraded Controller and Valve:


Upgraded Controller Installed:


Switchable Modes:


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> yes


pics ! :d


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> pics ! :d


Can't really see them right now. They don't require cutting the top mounts.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The Golf R comes standard with an open differential which is not as performance oriented as a limited slip differential. Since the Golf R is equipped with an AWD system, you may not see a big improvement taking off from a dead stop as you would on a FWD vehicle, however once we hit the track, the upgraded diff shines in comparison. 

Gearbox Opened:



APR Motorsport has spent years developing differential components for our race cars that have resulted in true track only setups. The dollar amounts on these differentials are simply too high for most street driven vehicles, and the aggressive nature of the setups makes them unideal for the MaxR as we'll spend plenty of time on the street. They were able to lend a hand in customizing a differential for our needs and opted to start out with a lamalle plate, clutch style differential. APR Motorsport Engineers customized locking options and ramp angles to make the differential behave the way they expect on the track without removing all usability on the street. 

OEM Differential:


The LSD is aggressive and noisy until fluid gets up to temp, and the style of LSD used does require it to be rebuilt from time to time, so for most of of you, this may not be a route to take, however if you plan to dedicate much of your Golf R's life to the track, it may be the way to go.

Upgraded LSD:


For track testing days, we opted to use the Motul Gear FF Competition 300 LS SAE 75w140 100% Synthetic Ester gear oil for superior protection in demanding high temp situations. When we're not on the track, we switch back to the Motul Gear 300 LS SAE 75w90 100% Synthetic Ester gear oil. It's design for use with a limited slip differential and give us the protection we need every day. 

Track Gear Oil:









http://www.goapr.com/products/motul_gear.html

Street Gear Oil:









http://www.goapr.com/products/motul_gear.html


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The TTRS Spindles are different. It's not a direct bolt on. We had to so some modifications to make it all work.


Please share!!


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## Noside (Aug 20, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We're sitting a bit lower today thanks to our new suspension system!
> 
> 
> We installed a Volkswagen Racing UK Golf R StreetSport+ Adjustable Damping Coilover System with Progressive Springs and VWR Camber plates.


why are you using a progressive vs a linear spring?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Noside said:


> why are you using a progressive vs a linear spring?


Linear springs would be better for track only use while progressive springs would work better on the street. Our ultimate goal is to swap over to the linear springs for track days and back to progressive for the street.


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## Noside (Aug 20, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Linear springs would be better for track only use while progressive springs would work better on the street. Our ultimate goal is to swap over to the linear springs for track days and back to progressive for the street.


thats why I questioned it I thought this was a MAX build. Ideally you can get away with linear springs on the street with a good set of digressive dampers but I guess this is all that VWR has to offer


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Noside said:


> thats why I questioned it I thought this was a MAX build. Ideally you can get away with linear springs on the street with a good set of digressive dampers but I guess this is all that VWR has to offer


VWR offers both springs. The linear springs are an excellent swap for track days. 










We are actually testing both before moving on to testing the other suspension upgrades. 

VWR is far from limited in their offerings. The next step up has loads of adjustment up front, and they do offer packages that jump well into 5 figure territory, but I would never drive those on the street. 











All too often people in the US figure "Stiffer" or "Racier" setups are better. They aren't. It all depends on where you're driving the car, and if the suspension's actually setup properly, which will change for almost every track, and I can almost guarantee no one out there with 4 way adjustable setups are anywhere near properly setup.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Let's change the focus of this build and get to some of the stuff we all really like, POWER!

The engine on the MaxR was removed at the beginning of the build and completely stripped down to the bare bones. 













Then the head and a few other parts were taken over to the ultra sonic cleaner to take a nice bath!





This is all to get ready for a stage 4 build. :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

I need to quit my job and come work for APR, you guys build all the cool stuff. :heart:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I need to quit my job and come work for APR, you guys build all the cool stuff. :heart:


Hmm, may not be a bad idea. :thumbup:


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## FACTORYBOOST (Sep 12, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I need to quit my job and come work for APR, you guys build all the cool stuff. :heart:


Where do we sign up? :thumbup:


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## Noside (Aug 20, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> This is all to get ready for a stage 4 build. :laugh:


Are you using a Billet GTX28R wheel with this kit? or still on the old school cast stuff?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Noside said:


> Are you using a Billet GTX28R wheel with this kit? or still on the old school cast stuff?


Most of our 3+ and 4 builds between FSI and TSI are using a GT3071R. We have a GTX in this puppy. More info on that in a bit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

More than half a decade ago we began working with the basic 2.0T engine found within the new Golf R. There were updates along the way, but some of the basics still hold true. One of the biggest restrictions we found was in the design of the head and intake manifold. The new 2.0 TSI engine found in the Golf MK6 has a great improvement in both of these areas. Firstly, the intake manifold's runner flaps lay flat and out of the way, only leaving the port dividers as a restriction. Secondly, the entire head flows better. This results in less of a restriction meaning higher air flow levels at lower boost pressures. Intake air temperature is lower and ignition advance is far better which is absolutely critical for making big power. 

The solution was simple, an APR high flow head for the FSI. Experimentation at APR was on going for years testing different porting options and testing the results. Earlier this year we purchased a Centroid 5 axis Head Porting Machine that allows our engineering team to recreate identically ported heads each and every time we load one onto the machine. 



Here's a video showing how awesome the machine is in action!






The machine can move the head around the cutting blade to increase the size of the ports as quickly as possible. It's cut down on development time significantly. Currently APR uses CFD software to test the port design and ultimately testing will take place on our super flow engine dyno and super flow flow bench.

Here are a few shots of the finished product. You'll notice the ports are smooth all the way around with no transition points where the port dividers once sat. After years of testing "upgraded" valve trains, off the shelf upgraded camshafts, and our own grinds, we've opted to stick with the stock hardware. 











Next up is the factory intake manifold. As mentioned before the manifold has port flaps which sit directly in the center, blocking airflow. They are extremely restrictive. Proper removal of the flaps is a bit tricky as you're left with holes between the ports so APR's Engineers made intake manifold runner flap deletes to take care of that issue!

Here's a shot showing the flaps removed under the manifold and the flap deletes in silver between each port.


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## FACTORYBOOST (Sep 12, 2011)

Wow...
This makes me want to quit my job so I can hurry up and finish my engineering degree... 
But then I'd lose my car 

I would be content just hanging around watching you guys do your thing day after day :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Here are the ports in our CAD software.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

No engine build would be complete without upgrading the factory rods and pistons. The rod design on the new Golf R and MK6 GTI TSI are much stronger than those found in the original MK5 GTI 2.0T FSI, however they still represent a weak point in the build.

Stock Rods and Pistons:





When going beyond Stage 3 pump fuel power levels, we suggest upgrading the rods. We are currently in development of a new rod design that will have several desirable features we're not seeing in development today. When the time comes, Max will be torn down and upgraded once again, but for now we are using an solution we've used in the past.

Strengthened Rods (Upgraded Rod Bearings not Shown):


With big power goals planed for the future, we've also taken this opportunity to upgrade the pistons with a solution we've used in the past. These pistons don't alter the stock compression ratio found int he Golf R. We've tested different compression ratios in the past, but found the stock compression ratio worked well, so that's what the MaxR will utilize.The pistons are also coated with a heat resistant material that's said to protect against knock however some are skeptical of these claims and analysis on our engine dyno will take place in the future. We are also in the process of testing a new piston design on other internal builds and we plan to test the results against these pistons in the future. 

Coated Pistons, Rings and wrist pins:





Installed!



Another item to add to the list of modifications is the APR Balance Shaft Delete. This frees up some of the rotating mass to gain a few more HP and since every bit counts, this is a welcomed addition to the build. We've also seen quite a few of these fail in racing applications, so we've tested their removal with years of continued success.




Also, in the process of upgrading the internals, the entire rotating assembly is balanced to ensure smooth operation for years to come. Here's the crank shaft with material removed for balancing. 





And part of our build includes cleaning and honing the original block as well as painting it with our trademark red color. It's all starting to come together nicely!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Wow.This makes me want to sell all my stuff and buy from APR.... 


Naaahhh....Just messing with ya.... :laugh:

Good job though...Too bad only like 1% of the tuning community will ever have the
cash to get all of these goodies....

It's good to know i already have all of the above....and then some... 

But yeah, looks good. :beer:

EDIT:Come to think of it my setup is pretty close to that (minus the flaps delete)...Do you guys offer custom software by any chance ?? :sly:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> EDIT:Come to think of it my setup is pretty close to that (minus the flaps delete)...Do you guys offer custom software by any chance ?? :sly:


Maybe I could work something out in the future.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe I could work something out in the future.


Interesting...

You haven't yet mentioned anything about the low pressure system....

What is APR planning to do with that ??


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> Interesting...
> 
> You haven't yet mentioned anything about the low pressure system....
> 
> What is APR planning to do with that ??


Do you think we honestly skipped anything. I'll get to everything after SOWO... we are showing off the car there, then the build will continue.


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

engine build looks similar to mine with the exception of the CNCd head. JC and i should go work for APR. you guys would then wouldnt have to worry about Stasis and the tricks up their sleeves.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> engine build looks similar to mine with the exception of the CNCd head. JC and i should go work for APR. you guys would then wouldnt have to worry about Stasis and the tricks up their sleeves.


lol, yeah, ughhh nooo to the second part in every possible way imaginable. :laugh:


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## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

makes me want to rip my **** apart and change a few things up...

would u guys consider selling the flapper delete pieces?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

donjuan1jr said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> makes me want to rip my **** apart and change a few things up...
> 
> would u guys consider selling the flapper delete pieces?


Yes, working on a production kit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The BFGoodrich MaxR is at SOWO this weekend. Here's a sneak peek of some testing we did on the BFGoodrich Tires G-Force Sport Comp 2s.


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## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> There are many differences.


Can you tellme about it.

Here in Mexico Audi sell the S3 but VW don't going to sell the Golf R. I'm interested in a build like that.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

CLestat said:


> Can you tellme about it.
> 
> Here in Mexico Audi sell the S3 but VW don't going to sell the Golf R. I'm interested in a build like that.


You're right man, but if you want to buy an Audi S3 you would have to wait 6 months for it to be delivered... LOL

Also what it sucks it's that here in Mexico the VW Passat and the CC aren't going to be equipped with 4Motion any more.


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## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

BETOGLI said:


> You're right man, but if you want to buy an Audi S3 you would have to wait 6 months for it to be delivered... LOL
> 
> Also what it sucks it's that here in Mexico the VW Passat and the CC aren't going to be equipped with 4Motion any more.


S3 2008 + APR Stage 3


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

CLestat said:


> S3 2008 + APR Stage 3


FTW!

I'm going to be selling my VW Jetta GLI DSG 2007 with APR Stage III (with Garrett 2871R). If you're interested let me know man!


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Mother of god  This is a sick, sick build. Basically everything I could think of if I had an "unlimited funds build". You guys have an end goal in mind as far as power goes?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

With the motor built with strengthened, lightened and balanced internals, and the transmission upgraded with a new limited slip differential, it’s time to put it’s time to install the flywheel and clutch and put it back together so we can begin installing the APR Turbocharger System! 

For this build we went with a DXD Stage III Endurance Clutch System as found here: 
http://www.goapr.com/products/dxdclutch.php?id=20tfsitrans 










The Stage III Endurance system is designed for road racing. It’s able to hold quite a bit of torque due to the increased clamping force of the pressure plate and the increased coefficient of friction on the Kevlar disc. The pressure plate makes the clutch pretty heavy at these levels, but since this is a racing clutch, the increase was expected and welcomed and will hold more torque than we need. 

  

The flywheel is also upgraded with a DXD single mass steel design that’s made from hot rolled low carbon steel. It’s resistant to warping and perfectly suited for the disc’s friction materials. The lightweight flywheel will eliminate rotating mass attached to the engine, freeing up a little more power. At idle there is an increase in sound from the clutch system that may not sound normal if you’ve never experienced the difference between a dual and single mass flywheel, however there’s not reason to be concerned as it’s completely normal. 

 

   

 

 

We also took this opportunity to begin installing the VWR Short Shifter. The short shifter is not extreme by any means, but it comes with all the parts necessary to install and go and cleans up the shifts just enough to make a good difference without going overboard. You can find out more info about it here: http://www.goapr.com/products/short_shifter_vwr_vaga5.html


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The Golf R comes equipped with a Borg Warner K04 turbocharger right from the factory, which happens to be an excellent turbocharger. It’s this turbo which gives the Golf R such a big power boost over the base level 2.0T found in the GTI and GLI MK5 and MK6. During our tuning exercises, it wasn’t difficult to get over 300 HP out of the stock turbo with only software. Adding the necessary bolt-ons such as our RSC turboback exhaust, VWR Intake System, APR High Pressure Fuel Pump and APR Intercooler, we were well on our way to making serious power but ultimately we were limited by the turbocharger unit’s size. 

The one thing we really like about the factory turbo is the response it gives in the lower RPM’s. Turbocharger spool is very quick but the power at redline dies off as the small turbo is not able to efficiently produce the airflow numbers necessary for big power. Over the years we’ve tested several different turbocharger systems on the 2.0T from the GT2860RS to the GT3076R Turbocharger. The smaller units offer lightening fast spool while the bigger units offer big top end power. If we were after a car that’s only to be used in a straight line, we’d go with a large turbocharger and call it a day, but this is the MaxR; an AWD beast that’s driven daily. Spool is very important. 

Enter the GTX2867R Turbocharger from Garrett Honeywell: 

 

The GTX2867R is a new turbocharger unit from Garrett that offers a lightweight billet compressor wheel with next generation geometry for extremely fast turbocharger spool and high-end airflow numbers. It’s able to spool very quickly while still offering the headroom necessary for top end power as we cross 7000 RPM. 

 

Another key feature to the new turbocharger unit is the use of an anti-surge compressor housing. The anti-surge housing allows us to spool the turbocharger very quickly, running high boost levels at low airflow levels, such as in the lower RPM range, to produce tons of power off the line without worry of running into dangerous levels of compressor surge. It’s truly amazing and the new design allows for this feature in a small and convenient package. 

 


We are using a T25 turbine to manifold connection with a smaller AR to help aid in turbocharger spool. After testing the differences between the larger and smaller AR, we chose to go with the smaller AR as the larger AR seemingly only added turbocharger lag with no measurable top end gains. 

We have also opted to use an internally gated wastegate setup. This allows us to use the factory N75 to control boost with the ECU just as if this turbo was intended to be on the engine from the factory. It adds a high level of precision and all the protection necessary to protect the engine should something go wrong. 

Now, don’t expect to just bolt one of these turbo on your Golf R and call it a day! The turbocharger unit will not fit without a new manifold, new exhaust, new oil and coolant lines, new turbo inline, new turbo outlet, boost and vacuum references lines, wastegate brackets and modifications to the PCV system. It will also not run correctly without software modifications. We’ll get to all of that in a bit when we discuss our Turbocharger System a little more in depth!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Excellent choice on the turbocharger.I see you guys are following my lead...:laugh:

This should be good for a bit more power than the GT2871R with better spool.

Curious to see what it does.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> Excellent choice on the turbocharger.I see you guys are following my lead...:laugh:


 We had a couple of these before they were released to the public. :laugh:


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We had a couple of these before they were released to the public. :laugh:


 And who said i have a GTX2867 ? :laugh:

"Mine is larger".


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> And who said i have a GTX2867 ? :laugh:
> 
> "Mine is larger".


 So, how exactly are we following your lead?


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> So, how exactly are we following your lead?


 Well you are going the "engine efficiency way" instead of the huge turbo way.

It contradicts the "American tuning school" theory of GOING BIG.

Most of the U.S. guys tuning their cars just do rods and slap on a HUGE turbo, only
to end up with a tiny powerband, wheel speed issues, hardware failures, and actually
ending up with a SLOWER car all around.

I've always been a firm believer of upgrading the N/A side of the engine thus helping the
turbo side to make some more power more efficiently.

The only disappointing thing is that you dropped out of the cams upgrade which would have helped
the setup even more.And i know you are going to say again you saw no gains, but i don't buy that.
You better than me know of you guys were not into it for the profit (which is understandable) you would be doing things A LOT differently.

In any case, curious to see what this turbo does.Although APR's dynos are not really something you can set you watch to...Let's see how this goes.... :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> The only disappointing thing is that you dropped out of the cams upgrade which would have helped
> the setup even more.And i know you are going to say again you saw no gains, but i don't buy that.
> You better than me know of you guys were not into it for the profit (which is understandable) you would be doing things A LOT differently.


 The cams simply did not make a difference. Could they make a difference with a very large turbo? Maybe? I don't really know, but for all we tested, all of the hours we labored over it, all the back and forth making sets with Schrick, in the end we saw no gains, so we decided not to sell the product. 

If it was a matter of money, we would just charge more. The price is set by our costs.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> The cams simply did not make a difference. Could they make a difference with a very large turbo? Maybe? I don't really know, but for all we tested, all of the hours we labored over it, all the back and forth making sets with Schrick, in the end we saw no gains, so we decided not to sell the product.
> 
> If it was a matter of money, we would just charge more. The price is set by our costs.


 So what you are saying is that Schrick made and is selling a product that costs 1500$ and makes ZERO power ? How can someone accept that ? Schrick is the TOP cam manufacturer in the world and they don't make stuff that "don't work". But i would be curious to see some of your cam research. Are the OEM cams the same as the Schricks ? Cause if the Schricks are more aggressive (which AFAIK the are) this would be the first time a more flowing camshaft makes that same power as an OEM one....I find that hard to believe.It would be way more believable to say "we (APR) don't want to have the hassle that comes with a modified head+ aftermarket cams, so we prefer to "lose" some power and keep the engine fail proof" than what you are saying now.

Plus, a little birdie told me someone made 90whp on stage 2 cat cams. Dunno what their specs are, but since you worked with Schrick i would hope you went that far too on the profile...The way i see it, i don't want 90whp...Half of that would be awesome...

Btw when i contacted Schrick about the gains from their cams they quoted 15 bhp gain on a STOCK engine...And Schrick isn't known to BS around (as most German companies don't).They would rather stay on the conservative side than to BS with results.

So now you are telling me you made ZERO horsepower on a BT (or even K04) engine ?

I don't buy that sry.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> So what you are saying is that Schrick made and is selling a product that costs 1500$ and makes ZERO power ? How can someone accept that ? Schrick is the TOP cam manufacturer in the world and they don't make stuff that "don't work". But i would be curious to see some of your cam research. Are the OEM cams the same as the Schricks ? Cause if the Schricks are more aggressive (which AFAIK the are) this would be the first time a more flowing camshaft makes that same power as an OEM one....I find that hard to believe.It would be way more believable to say "we (APR) don't want to have the hassle that comes with a modified head+ aftermarket cams, so we prefer to "lose" some power and keep the engine fail proof" than what you are saying now.


 Shrick sells more aggressive cam profiles. I've yet to see any power claims by them. 



> Plus, a little birdie told me someone made 90whp on stage 2 cat cams. Dunno what their specs are, but since you worked with Schrick i would hope you went that far too on the profile...The way i see it, i don't want 90whp...Half of that would be awesome...


 I had cat cams. They were garbage and I'll never work with cat ever again. 



> Btw when i contacted Schrick about the gains from their cams they quoted 15 bhp gain on a STOCK engine...And Schrick isn't known to BS around (as most German companies don't).They would rather stay on the conservative side than to BS with results.
> 
> So now you are telling me you made ZERO horsepower on a BT (or even K04) engine ?


 We tested every profile they had to offer as well as the profiles used by different seat supercopa teams we know and other cams on the market. We did not record a measurable gain with any of the setups, therefor, we canceled the program after over a year of research and development. 

 After all of the research and development we conducted, all stage 4 builds going forward ran the stock cams. 



> I don't buy that sry.


 Ok, well that's fine by me. I have cams sitting on the shelfs downstairs. Do you want them? I'll sell you a set. They don't make any more power.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Shrick sells more aggressive cam profiles. I've yet to see any power claims by them.


 So now you are calling Schrick a fraud ? How did they react when you told them their cams make no power, and yet they sell them for an arm and a leg ? I would be really interested to know their answer, and even confront them about it...




> I had cat cams. They were garbage and I'll never work with cat ever again.


Garbage or not, these were the gains i was told. I take it you question those gains too ?
We are not discussing "quality of product" here, but rather quoted performance figures.
If you had the cams that means you EXPECTED to see gains. And since Cat has developed these
cams much less than a year ago, why did you go install cams you KNEW did not make any power ?
Doesn't make sense does it ?? Hmmm....



> We tested every profile they had to offer as well as the profiles used by different seat supercopa teams we know and other cams on the market. We did not record a measurable gain with any of the setups, therefor, we canceled the program after over a year of research and development.


 You are forgetting something VERY important Arin, and that might explain what you are experiencing.
First of all AFAIK the Schick cams are made specifically for the AXX, BWA engines, and not for the BHZ or similar "newer" engines.Even in their latest catalog the TFSI cams are meant for the earlier engines and not for the later ones. Now you may ask...why does that matter ? I'll tell you why.First of all, there is a BIG difference in compression. From old school tuning knowledge, cams (even in a N/A environment) need COMPRESSION to work. The more agressive a cam, the more compression is "needed" to make the same power, and still reap the benefits of a higher flowing cam.Changes in "effective compression" when using the Schricks might even hinder the newer lower compression engines.... On another note, the newer engines are already using a different exhaust camwhich might already give some of the gains the Schricks would. But the fact all of the above also take part, might make the Schricks seem to make the same power as the S3's...But not on the older higher compression engines.

Overall, the cams Schrick makes are for the AXX, BWA and possibly the BPY engines and NOT for the
newer low compression engines.Schrick for some reason hasn't included these engines in their catalog
and there might be a reason for it.

In any case, i will be installing the cams next week and timing them in myself. I will let you know if my finding match yours...



> After all of the research and development we conducted, all stage 4 builds going forward ran the stock cams.


I'm sure your customers will be happy you did.



> Ok, well that's fine by me. I have cams sitting on the shelfs downstairs. Do you want them? I'll sell you a set. They make 0 HP.


Well if they don't make ANY power, i'll take them off your hands for shipping costs only.How's that ?? I'm game. :thumbup:

Orrrr....you don't really want to SELL ME a product that makes no power? . DO YOU ?
That can't be what APR does....CAN IT ?? :what:


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

GolfRS said:


> So now you are calling Schrick a fraud ? How did they react when you told them their cams make no power, and yet they sell them for an arm and a leg ? I would be really interested to know their answer, and even confront them about it...
> 
> ?


 Proper Cam profile is prob the hardest moving target to get right for "Specfic" group of parts for good measurable gains. Apr kit group of parts are based on keeping high throttle response. This dosnt mean upgraded cams won't work it means that with there group of parts they didn't show any gains. Bob. G


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

rracerguy717 said:


> Proper Cam profile is prob the hardest moving target to get right for "Specfic" group of parts for good measurable gains. Apr kit group of parts are based on keeping high throttle response. This dosnt mean upgraded cams won't work it means that with there group of parts they didn't show any gains. Bob. G


 I'm still not buying it.

If they had said we tested the cams and expected to see 30 bhp gain but only saw 10 so it's not worth it, then i would accept it.But dismissing a performance part altogether makes the company that makes it
a fraud, and altogether defies some of the basic mechanic rules.

So let's see APR technically explain why a higher lift/ duration cam didn't make more power than
a FACTORY one. This TFSI engine must be a real mystery it seems...Defies all common sense.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> So now you are calling Schrick a fraud ? How did they react when you told them their cams make no power, and yet they sell them for an arm and a leg ? I would be really interested to know their answer, and even confront them about it...


 I've never EVER once called Schrick a fraud and never will. Currently they are one of the only cam manufacturers in the world who will ever receive my business. The scope of their engineering is amazing. Our contacts, who've visited our facility are intelligent and knowledgable. The costs of their camshafts are justified by the costs associated with creating and quality controlling each item. 



> You are forgetting something VERY important Arin, and that might explain what you are experiencing.
> First of all AFAIK the Schick cams are made specifically for the AXX, BWA engines, and not for the BHZ or similar "newer" engines.Even in their latest catalog the TFSI cams are meant for the earlier engines and not for the later ones. Now you may ask...why does that matter ? I'll tell you why.First of all, there is a BIG difference in compression. From old school tuning knowledge, cams (even in a N/A environment) need COMPRESSION to work. The more agressive a cam, the more compression is "needed" to make the same power, and still reap the benefits of a higher flowing cam.Changes in "effective compression" when using the Schricks might even hinder the newer lower compression engines.... On another note, the newer engines are already using a different exhaust camwhich might already give some of the gains the Schricks would. But the fact all of the above also take part, might make the Schricks seem to make the same power as the S3's...But not on the older higher compression engines.


 We've tested them at the stock BWA compression levels. I don't recall seeing a notable difference with the S3 cams either. I even have a set on my car that was used for testing. 



GolfRS said:


> So let's see APR technically explain why a higher lift/ duration cam didn't make more power than
> a FACTORY one. This TFSI engine must be a real mystery it seems...Defies all common sense.


 I'd like to speak with one of the engineers who worked closely on the project to get more of his opinions on this matter, but if I had to take a guess, the cams may not be the biggest bottleneck, and as such, modifying the cams may not make a big change until other areas are modified. Perhaps they work really well with a ported head that has an extremely high flowing turbo geared for ultimate top end power, but that's not what we're after in our applications. 

In our early days of testing we made several modifications to the engine at once and part of that equation included the cams. The data and theory seemed to support the cams and even at one point, compression changes were though to make a large difference in power. Through more more testing of individual components and groups of components at a time, we found what really made a difference in power.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I've never EVER once called Schrick a fraud and never will. Currently they are one of the only cam manufacturers in the world who will ever receive my business. The scope of their engineering is amazing. Our contacts, who've visited our facility are intelligent and knowledgable. The costs of their camshafts are justified by the costs associated with creating and quality controlling each item.


 Fair enough, but all of the above also means they did their testing before releasing a set of cams (for a hefty price i might add) that should hold up to their reputation. Schrick is not an OEM replica company. They make PERFORMANCE parts, not "better quality OEM replacements" . If i had a company with such a reputation, trust me i wouldn't put out a set of costly cams only to be
discovered down the road they make ZERO power and my customer just wasted his money.
And don't take this the wrong way (or whatever) but i trust Schrick more than i trust APR.
I agree the cost of a cam is directly related to the production and control costs, BUT if such costs are
taken up by a serious company to make an aftermarket PERFORMANCE cam, i am pretty sure they did their research such a product would SELL...

It's like saying APR made their intercooler, tested and saw it made ZERO difference to the factory unit, but kept selling it for a pretty penny just because they decided to make it anyway so wth...It doesn't work this way Arin, especially in your line of business.You make and R&D a product, determine its possible HP capabilities, calculate the production and other costs, and then take it to the market for profit. If the product makes ZERO power, you sell ZERO cams, and all your hard work (and money) goes down the drain. This is not how big companies are made....





> We've tested them at the stock BWA compression levels. I don't recall seeing a notable difference with the S3 cams either. I even have a set on my car that was used for testing.


 And once again what did Schrick say about your findings ? Why not share that too with us ?
That would be interesting to know. No ?




> I'd like to speak with one of the engineers who worked closely on the project to get more of his opinions on this matter, but if I had to take a guess, the cams may not be the biggest bottleneck, and as such, modifying the cams may not make a big change until other areas are modified. Perhaps they work really well with a ported head that has an extremely high flowing turbo geared for ultimate top end power, but that's not what we're after in our applications.


 Please do and let us know what he said.It is not a matter of "bottlenecking" with the cams.
More duration and lift (and different cam timing i might add) improve the efficiency of the engine.
It's all about how the N/A internal combustion engine works with a touch of "turbo difference" at least as far as the cams are concerned.I don't want to get into the details cause it is not something for this thread, but a good set of PROPERLY made cams can make a TON of difference in ANY motor.
If you or anyone reads more into cam theory you can understand what i'm saying.And OF COURSE everything works together.A simple set of cams in an otherwise restricted engine isn't gonna make the HP a ported and full peripherals engine will. BUT this is a well known fact, ans this is why you leave cams for last, and not as a first engine mod.



> In our early days of testing we made several modifications to the engine at once and part of that equation included the cams. The data and theory seemed to support the cams and even at one point, compression changes were though to make a large difference in power. Through more more testing of individual components and groups of components at a time, we found what really made a difference in power.


 As i said it depends on what you want from your engine and what you are prepared to do to obtain it.
You can make 500 whp with a simple rod/piston/big turbo swap, but the characteristics of your engine would REALLY SUCK.Or....you can develop the entire engine (spend considerably more cash) and make a car that is like a 5 liter N/A but with a turbo....THAT is what proper tuning is like (for me at least). So once you've reached the point the N/A side of your engine is almost fully developed, the last thing you can do is cams.And aftermarket performance cams (by definition) SHOULD give more performance than factory cams.And that is guaranteed by the reputation of the company that makes them.Be that Schrick...or APR....


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Arin, Just put him on your ignore list (I did long ago, I regret nothing.) and continue on with the awesome build thread!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> Arin, Just put him on your ignore list (I did long ago, I regret nothing.) and continue on with the awesome build thread!


 What kind of post was that exactly BUDDY ?? 

Are you trying to start something or are you just being a fanboy ?

If you HAD put me on your ignore list you wouldn't be commenting on my posts
right now.

So go troll somewhere else...

OK ??


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> Schrick is not an OEM replica company. They make PERFORMANCE parts, not "better quality OEM replacements"


 Schrick *IS* an OEM parts supplier and that's their primary business. The aftermarket division could be gone tomorrow if they wanted, but they've kept it for the enthusiasts and motorsport teams. 



> It doesn't work this way Arin


 Yes, it does work this way. You are still hanging onto the fact that the cams did not seem to show any increase in power for us, on our applications. 

That happens all the time! 

Sometimes installing an intake on a stock car will show a 0 HP gain but when chipped it will show massive gains. 

Sometimes installing an exhaust on a stock car will show a massive gain but when the turbo or supercharger is maxed out the gains are actually pretty minimal. 

Schrick is an OEM parts supplier and a supplier of motorsport parts. They also have an aftermarket catalog of parts available in limited quantities. Most of their aftermarket parts are for race applications. Many of the offerings are cam grinds race teams and OEMs requested to be made knowing schrick would carry the parts in their catalog (unless specified otherwise). Some are rofiles they've made on their own. These are all available to those who would like to use a different profile for whatever they may be doing, and simply put, schrick does not advertise any results anywhere for their FSI cams. 

It's possible the cams make power on stock software. 
It's possible the cams don't show a difference once everything is maxed out with our stage 3 and 4 turbocharger systems. 
It's possible the cams really shine at low boost. 
It's possible the cams really shine at super free flowing high boost applications. 

All of those things are possible and many more possibilities exist. That said I don't see Schrick making any claims, anywhere. They sell more aggressive profile cams. They don't push the product. It's available for those who want to use it. It's expensive because it's expensive to make. 

The one thing that remains true is we did not see a benefit using them with our setup. We DID make one beneficial change to one set, but it's in an area you may not be familiar and I'm not discussing what or where. 

The FSI is more than half a decade old at this point and there isn't a single scientific, back to back, and back again, test showing cams making a difference. Imagine that! 

I'm not discussing this topic further.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Schrick *IS* an OEM parts supplier and that's their primary business. The aftermarket division could be gone tomorrow if they wanted, but they've kept it for the enthusiasts and motorsport teams.


 Schrick may provide OEM parts but we are talking about their performance parts not the ones meant for factory use.When i said Schrick doesn't make "OEM replicas" i meant their cams are not OEM replacement units that have the same characteristics and would show no gain.What that means is you install them to make more power, not replace a bad or worn OEM camshaft.Btw, SACHS is also an OEM manufacturer, but their racing kits are not for factory use. See the similarities here ?




> Yes, it does work this way. You are still hanging onto the fact that the cams did not seem to show any increase in power for us, on our applications.
> 
> That happens all the time!
> 
> ...


I'm gonna respond to all of the above with ONE single answer...
You once mentioned you saw like (what was it again) 30 whp ? 50 whp gain from porting the head...
Where is the scientific proof of that ?
Haven't seen that anywhere either, and yet you charge a pretty penny for it.
Imagine THAT !!


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## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

Whole lee schit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

In order for the larger Garrett GTX2867R Turbocharger to mate to the factory head found on the Golf R’s 2.0T FSI Engine, APR was tasked with creating an exhaust manifold capable of supporting excessively high exhaust gas temperatures for long periods of time. 

Enter the APR Inconel Manifold. 

 

APR’s exhaust manifolds are known around the world for several highly sought after properties not completely shared by any other design in the market. 


*Runner Lengths* 
Many manifold manufacturers are after 1 thing: Equal exhaust runner lengths. The theory behind equal runner lengths is the exhaust pulses from each cylinder will arrive at the collection point, one after each other, without the pulses colliding. This will aid in power deliver and turbocharger spool compared to a traditional log style manifold or one w/o equal length runners. Typical stainless steel equal runner length manifolds have long twists and turns in order to achieve this, but they do so at the cost of strength and design quality. It’s a low-tech old school method designed to look pretty and get the pulses in line. The thin tubing with multiple weld points has a potential to crack over time, and the thin tubing walls create an undesirably loud exhaust that’s simply unacceptable for most daily driven applications. 

Creating one of these manifolds is quick for any skilled exhaust shop. On low volume products, it’s often an attractive product due to the time and costs involved in creating one, but given each exhaust is only as good as the person welding, and their mood during that days work, problems can arise and may only rear their head when it’s too late. 

The APR Exhaust manifold is able to achieve the same equal runner length properties as the other low-tech methods by varying the lengths of each runner. The runner lengths will be dictated some degree due to packaging constraints, but APR’s 3D modeling and computational fluid dynamics software allows our engineers to adjust the length of each runner, adding length where necessary, to ensure all exhaust pulses arrive one after each other without colliding at the collection point. The Inconel material has excellent heat retention characteristics that work to enhance turbo response by keeping exhaust velocities high. The order the pulses arrive differ from that of an equal length runner, but the outcome is enhanced by the properties of the material used. 

*Strength* 
APR’s exhaust manifold is made from Inconel 625, which is a very high temperature nickel-chromium-based superalloy designed to withstand extreme temperature changes without expanding, contracting, melting or cracking under stress. This material is very expensive material and is difficult to machine and at the inception of our first 1.8T turbocharger system, was upwards of $10,000 for a single Inconel manifold from VW Sport. 

APR has gone a step further by using an investment cast design rather than a sand-casting process. This expensive process results in smoother finishes and very tight tolerances to ensure each manifold fits properly. Each manifold is cast in the USA and machined in house using one of APR’s CNC machines to finalize all mounting surfaces. Quality control is very important given the labor and headaches one would experience with a failed manifold, so each manifold is inspected before and after machining. 

Never worrying about a cracked exhaust manifold is something an APR customer confidently feels every time they drive their vehicle. 

So to recap, here are some of the benefits of the APR Manifold Design: 

-	Inconel 625 Material 
-	High EGT Resistance 
-	Low Growth/Contraction Under Heat 
-	Guaranteed Not To Crack (Lifetime Warranty) 
-	Exhaust Pulse Tuned Runner Lengths 
-	Excellent Heat Retention Properties for High Exhaust Velocity 
-	Low Noise Output 
-	High Tolerances Investment Casting 
-	High Precision CNC Machining In House 
-	Repeatable Manufacturing Methods 
-	Strict Quality Control 
-	Made in the USA 

Next up we’ll look into a little more of the plumbing involved to route all air into and out of the turbocharger.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Pretty awesome build thread!


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## superv97 (Jun 16, 2012)

Lovin this thread. Big thanks to Arin for doing this. :thumbup::thumbup: Quick question as well. Would that coilover setup work in a Jetta MKV? I assume not because they are not listed as a part for the jetta's on the goapr.com site. I like those coils and would love to be able to put them on my car.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

superv97 said:


> Lovin this thread. Big thanks to Arin for doing this. :thumbup::thumbup: Quick question as well. Would that coilover setup work in a Jetta MKV? I assume not because they are not listed as a part for the jetta's on the goapr.com site. I like those coils and would love to be able to put them on my car.


 There are several different part numbers for different vehicles out there. We've tested one of the systems (not sure which) on a GLI and it needed some adjustments from what I remember. VWR said they are working on it back in the UK, but from what I gather, it's not a quick process. 

The MK5 GTI system is probably the closest match to the MK5 GLI. It will fit, but I do not know if the valving and spring rates are perfectly matched to the GLI. It's probably very close and for most people would probably be fine.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

biggest question is what weekend can I come down and drive this thing. :laugh: 

Looking good guys keep up the great work. :heart:


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## superv97 (Jun 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> There are several different part numbers for different vehicles out there. We've tested one of the systems (not sure which) on a GLI and it needed some adjustments from what I remember. VWR said they are working on it back in the UK, but from what I gather, it's not a quick process.
> 
> The MK5 GTI system is probably the closest match to the MK5 GLI. It will fit, but I do not know if the valving and spring rates are perfectly matched to the GLI. It's probably very close and for most people would probably be fine.


 Thanks Arin. Lots of great info in this thread. I look forward to the end result.....it will be pretty sweet.


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## FlyingTurtle (Mar 26, 2006)

:heart:


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Any update Arin?

Have a good one!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

It's not uncommon to see "custom" turbocharger systems on the market featuring generic off the shelf silicon hoses. To engineer truly custom silicon hoses, as is the case with an APR Stage III Turbocharger System, months of planning and engineer time must take place. 

APR's Engineers use a FARO Arm to plot points of contact within the engine bay and mounting surfaces, such as the turbocharger, to help aid in design and fitment through CAD Software. This gives the engineers a work space for designing parts without worry of contacting components in the engine bay. 

*FARO Arm Mapping a Turbo*


Once the engine bay and attached items are mapped, the engineers are able to begin designing parts on the computer. We currently use the latest version of Pro Engineer, which is now called creo. It's an extremely powerful software suite that gives our Engineers the flexibility they need to design and test many components in a simulated environment, long before they ever make a physical part. 

Here's a fully designed Stage 3 Turbocharger System, long before any physical parts are produced. The images can be rotated, split apart, moved around, altered, etc. 





Once the Engineers complete a design, it's sent to our Stereolithography (SLA) 3D printer to print out a physical part we can test in the engine bay. It's necessary to print out the design and test because some items in the engine bay are not static. Under load the engine will rock back and forth, so clearance must be confirmed before proceeding. Printing 3D parts also allows us to test parts on other makes and models around the world. Our UK facility and our partners in Australia test Right Hand Drive vehicles we do not see in the US. 




The printer uses a laser to harden a liquid material into a useable part. In the example below, we are using the SLA to create a compressor housing for use on a TTRS Stage III Turbocharger System. The process is identical when creating silicon hoses for the Golf R Stage III Turbocharger System:

The Laser burns in the design, one tiny layer at a time:


When finished, the part is removed and sent over to an ultra violet chamber which hardens the piece:


The finished piece looks like this and can be fitted and tested in the car:


The same process takes place for nearly every component we design on the Stage III Turbocharger System. The parts are then installed and fitment is verified. Once engineering gives the green light, a cast mandrel is created and then machined in house to act as the mould for making the production parts. This is an extremely expensive process, which is why many kits use off the shelf, generic hosing, however quality and features cannot be matched using other methods. It's Performance Without Compromise.

APR manufactures all hoses in North America to ensure high levels of quality and workmanship. The hoses are then fit with custom hose barbs and spigots for all of the necessary OEM equipment to connect and many of these parts are designed and created in house on our Mazak CNC lathe. The lathe feeds bar stock from one end to automate the production process and runs round the clock with two shifts of operators operating almost 24/7.




Each hose is a wire reinforced, high quality, multi-pli silicon design. The hoses are very stiff so under boost and vacuum the hoses will not swell or collapse and restrict airflow like traditional hoses. If you're at Waterfest or H2O this year, stop by our booth and squeeze one of the hoses on display!



All of the correct OEM spigots and outlets for boost / vacuum reference lines are included in the OEM locations. OEM PCV and EVAP connections are properly in place with OEM style one-time-use crimp clamps holding securing each piece.

One often overlooked feature of the APR Stage III Silicon Hose Design is the use of stepped mounting surfaces for smooth transition from one piece to the other. Traditional hoses simply sit on top of the other mounting surfaces, which can disrupt airflow. The APR hose design is stepped so they mount flush, offering a truly custom and ideal design.



Up next we'll discuss a few more cast parts in the induction system!


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Great!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The Golf R APR Stage 3 and 4 Turbocharger System features a massive intake system to ensure the engine can breathe properly with the larger GTX turbocharger. The intake system starts with an APR Carbonio Intake System, which is the same system found on the 2.0 TSI MK6 GTI GTI. Carbon Fiber is a lightweight material that not only looks good but serves many different functions. It can be molded into any shape one can imagine, It's strong and it also acts as an excellent heat shield material as it's resistant to heat. The high flow intake filter sits inside of a carbon fiber chamber, which is attached to the front of the car and blocks hot engine bay heat. Only cold, dense air from the leading edge of the hood enters the intake and is fed throughout the turbocharger. 

*Carbon Fiber Housing*:









*Intake Air Filter*:









Intake air is fed through the intake filter, through silicon hoses and into the Mass Airflow Sensor Housing. Mass airflow is metered by the MAF sensor and is used to calculate Load within the ECU. This is one of the most critical parts of the entire engine management system as the ECU is load based and accurate measurement of mass airflow is required to accurately calculate load. Accurate metering is necessary for smooth and reliable operation, and this is achieved with APR's design. 

*MAF Housing*

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










The MAF housing is a cast unit that's machined in house at APR to create extremely accurate dimensions, which are then properly calibrated into the ECU. Without making MAF diameter changes within the ECU, the ECU will simply believe the MAF diameter is smaller, which will alter load calculations negatively, and result in drivability issues. A honeycomb flow straightener, an often overlooked item, is placed inside of the MAF housing to straighten the airflow for more accurate readings.

*MAF Housing Internal Surface and Honeycomb Flow Straightener*


From here the air enters the turbo, is compressed, and then it exits the turbo on its way throughout the cast APR Turbo outlet pipe. The OEM part is sometimes referred to as the "pancake pipe", but the APR unit is smooth in design the whole way through and matches the diameter of the turbo outlet to ensure airflow is not restricted. The OEM part is not modified in any way. It's simply removed and replaced with the stronger and larger APR unit. 

*APR Turbo Outlet Pipe*


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










Airflow continues through the pipe on its way to the massive APR Front Mount Intercooler System. This massive unit made its way to the market in 2007 after Volkswagen of America required a larger intercooler system for their Stage 3 R GTI Concept Vehicle. The result was a system that trumped the OEM GTI, S3 and Golf R intercooler designs with far more cooling capabilities, larger inlets and outlets (57 mm vs 48 mm) and lesser pressure drop compared to the stock unit. This means not only will boost build faster with less turbo lag, but the power will stay consistent run after run. 

*VWoA R GTI*









To ensure no degradation to engine cooling, the APR Intercooler utilizes the OEM location. Volkswagen's Engineers are tasked with ensuring airflow over the radiator and intercooler is ideal for each and every vehicle in their fleet. A large percentage of these vehicles are compatible with the APR Intercooler System and because the intercooler is in the OEM location, critical airflow characteristics are fully utilized, and fitment's not an issue. 

*APR Intercooler System*

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










Many have tried to copy the APR Intercooler design over the years but none has compared in terms of fitment, cooling effectiveness, core quality and design, end tank quality and design, weight, hose and coupler design, instruction manuals and support from APR. This intercooler system is a prefect solution for a stock engine all the way to well over 600 HP and with customer dyno, lap times, quarter mile times and testimonials to back it up, you can have the confidence to know you've made the right choice.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Great! So I could add a 2.0 TSI Carbonio Stage I and II to my APR Stage III Setup? I would just need to relocate the MAF harness sensor, right?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

BETOGLI said:


> Great! So I could add a 2.0 TSI Carbonio Stage I and II to my APR Stage III Setup? I would just need to relocate the MAF harness sensor, right?


No, only the carbonio stage 1 TSI intake.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> No, only the carbonio stage 1 TSI intake.


You´re right man! How dumb I am... Indeed I would need to keep the MAF Housing! LOL

Is it a better option to swap to a Carbonio Stage I TSI Intake? or is it almost the same (performance wise) if I keep the filter that came with my Stage III Kit?

Thanks!


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## YoungMedic (Mar 22, 2006)

I just remembered why I never come into this forum anymore... :banghead:


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## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

how much for a stage 4 build? Please don't tellme emailme because don't asnwer, just want know how much.


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## MKV727 (Jul 21, 2012)

GolfRS said:


> In any case all of my posts in this thread will be deleted by me soon after.
> 
> Arguing is one thing, but messing up an advertisement is another, and this
> has gone too far.
> ...


Delete yours, I'll delete my posts.

It wasn't me who chewed up my HPFP and cam. I purchased this car 3 months ago and have only put 2000 miles on it. Before this car I never owned this engine in any of my cars. 

You're simply an idiot. You're skilled at not actually answering anything or posting any data. I explicitly asked you a question and you then asked me to answer my own question I posed to you :lol:

Posts are being deleted now.


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## MKV727 (Jul 21, 2012)

GolfRS said:


> I'm an idiot ??
> 
> So where is all the "you don't have data" BS gone now huh bud ?
> 
> ...


Ugh... You still don't have data :screwy:

You just do the same thing over and over and I'm over it.

I don't need the last word anymore, forget it. You're impossible.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

MKV727 said:


> Ugh... You still don't have data :screwy:
> 
> You just do the same thing over and over and I'm over it.
> 
> I don't need the last word anymore, forget it. You're impossible.


You still will NEVER know if cams make power....

How crap is that....LOL.

Just listen to APR. They don't want your money...they just want YOUR LOVE...


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## BlueDevil504 (Jan 19, 2012)

Has anyone installed a Mishimoto radiator with the APR Intercooler? and if so, were there any fitment or install problems. I have a 2006 MKV GLI 6-speed Stg 2+. I'm ordering the APR Intercooler this Wednesday and the OEM radiator works fine but i would like to upgrade it if possible. Any info on this topic would be greatly appreciated thank you. -Ben from Oregon


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

Any information about the low pressure fueling system ever get released? Or an update on the flap delete hardware?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I should have some more updates soon. In the mean time, the MaxR got a little track time this weekend! Take a look. 

*Full Gallery* 
_Click To Enlarge_


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)




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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Last weekend we attended the East Coast Volkswagen Golf R event, in association with TrackDaze, at Summit Point Raceway in WV. Volkswagen invited us to bring the BFG MaxR to experience a fun filled track day even with many enthusiasts in the community. The field mainly consisted of Volkswagen Golf Rs, R32s as well as MK5/MK6 GTI and GLIs. VWVortex had their Beetle on display and VWoA had their classic beetle as well. One of our customers even had a Beetle with a 3.6L FSI VR6, which we swapped in for them, and it sounded amazing! 

Take a look at the video and feel free to browse our photo gallery. 





 
*Full Gallery*


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)




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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The next logical step in the build would be to upgrade the factory braking system. For this we worked with our partner, Volkswagen Racing UK, to source the VWR Performance 6-Piston, 352 mm x 32 mm 2 Piece Brake System. After months of testing on max, APR vehicles in the UK, and on our vehicles here in the US, we were pleased to finally release the finished product. You can see it here: http://www.goapr.com/products/brakes_vwr_vag_a5.html 










APR is the title sponsor of the Volkswagen Racing Cup, which is a racing series run by Volkswagen Racing UK. Through the program, many different high end products have made their way from the track to the street and this braking system is one fine example. 










If you’ve ever driven around a track, you’ll know after just 1 or 2 laps, the brakes begin to fade. Even if you’ve never hit the track, if you’ve driven spiritedly on back roads, you’ll experience fade. Fade feels like the brakes simply don’t want to stop the vehicle. VWR setout to cure this issue the best they could by using off the shelf components found in many brake kits on the market today. The problems they encountered were the parts simply were not up to the test in all the areas they needed. So, they developed their own with OEM and racing brake manufacture Caparo AP, just 45 miles up the M1 from VWR. 

The VWR brake caliper is a 6-piston design that’s properly sized for your factory brake system. This means it has tons of clamping force, yet when you drive around town and tap the brakes, you don’t go flying through the windshield. You can hand your keys over to another driver unfamiliar to your vehicle, and they’ll probably believe the system is stock, that is until you really need to stop quickly. 

For the BFG MaxR we chose the black calipers, however they come in red or blue as well. 










The VWR brake kit includes a set of street and light track worthy pads, but since the system is designed to take non proprietary pads, they can be swapped out to any compound you may choose. For the MaxR, we drive around on the VWR pads with Motul DOT 5.1 brake fluid, but when we hit the track, we install track pads and fill up with Motul Racing RBF 660. The pads come out with ease and are easily swappable at the track without removing the caliper. 











The brake rotors are a 2-piece 352mm x 32mm ventilated and slotted design that’s resistant to fade with plenty of surface area. They are lightweight and feature an aluminum hat that can be swapped off to another set of rotors when replacements are needed down the road. 










One of the unique features of the hat is the use of an interlocking hub spacer. This allows the MaxR to switch from street wheels to track wheels without running traditional spacers to clear the calipers. The spacers simply lock into place to reduce vibration typically associated with running wheel spacers. 










Lastly the brake lines are upgraded from the standard rubber lines to stainless steel braded lines. Since they can’t expand under pressure, the braided lines get rid of the soft and spongy pedal feel. These feel firm and responsive in comparison. 

The system consistently stops shorter than the stock brake system, and at an added benefit, the entire system comes in several pounds lighter per side. The entire package translates into better stopping power, better handling, and faster acceleration. 

For all the details, visit the VWR Brake page on the GOAPR.com website: 
http://www.goapr.com/products/brakes_vwr_vag_a5.html


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Sweet, I was waiting for this BBK to be realized! 

I have some questions tho, 

1.- Would the spacer be necessary with 18" OEM wheels? 
2.- May I have any issue with front and rear bias, ABS System or with calibration of the OEM electronic LSD System? 

Thanks and again :thumbup::thumbup: to APR for these awesome build thread!  

Waiting for some nice videos!


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Hi Arin,
I just read the product link that you added, and I understood the doubt I had regarding to the spacers.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Bump!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Today’s aftermarket wheel scene is absolutely littered with every design and style one could imagine. Much like a set of self-adhesive fender vents from Pep Boys, it seems most wheels are chosen based on looks, rather than performance and functionality.










For the BFGMaxR, performance and styling were critical, so we worked with ADV.1 to customize a set of 5.01SL’s. The wheels are strong and up to the demands of the MaxR as they are a 6061 T6 heat-treated forged aluminum Monoblocks manufactured completely in the USA. 

ADV.1’s SL line is lightweight with only 19.8 lbs per side, reducing total weight by nearly 25 lbs. We chose a set of 18”x8.5” wheels as it afforded us the ability to run a very meaty set of BFGoodrich tires with a large contact patch. We’ll touch upon in our exciting next update!



Jon at ADV.1 was able to pull out all stops to ensure we could receive the wheels in time for testing at the Michelin Laurence Proving Grounds. ADV.1 custom painted the wheels to our specifications and arrived with a flawless finish, mating perfectly to the MaxR. 

Stay tuned for an exciting update!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The inspiration of the BFGoodrich MaxR project is all in the name. Our goal was to get the maximum out of a Golf R. Achieving this and still maintaining an enjoyable daily driver meant we had to completely modify Max to reliably make above 500HP. With more than double the factory 256 HP there was a new concern. If that power wasn’t transferred to the earth efficiently then it wouldn’t really amount to much. 


    

 A key component in the success of the project was a strategic partnership with BFGoodrich. They provided a tire solution capable of putting this new power to the ground in both wet and dry conditions. At the launch of the new BFGoodrich Tires G-Force Sport Comp-2, APR was invited to test the tire on BFGoodrich supplied vehicles. After measuring the performance on our own fleet of vehicles on the track and daily driving, the partnership was born. This was the missing piece to the MaxR project. 


    

 When considering performance upgrades for acceleration, handling, and braking most never consider tires. Choosing the wrong tire will completely alter all three of these categories. Arguably, tires are the most important performance component. Tires are your only connection to the road. They are the only objects that translate your input to the asphalt. With the MaxR strapped to a set of the BFGoodrich Tires G-Force Sport Comp-2, we were able to accelerate faster, lower our lap times and stop shorter than the OEM tires supplied with the Golf R. 


 


The MaxR was taken to Michelin’s Laurens Proving Grounds to conduct a battery of tests in dry and wet conditions to see how the tires stacked up to their OEM counterparts. Michelin’s Laurens Proving Grounds consist of 9 privately owned tracks designed to test tires in many different conditions. With dry and wet conditions, on and off road conditions, everything in order to push tires to the limits of handling, braking, acceleration, cornering, drifting, pulling, noise and so on. 


 

 Michelin’s test engineers were responsible for running Max through each test as they have thousands of times before with different tires. Multiple tests were conducted on the 93-octane calibration, and stock wheels were installed so all tire sizes would be identical. In braking the MaxR was able to stop an amazing 15.5 feet sooner in 60 - 0 MPH tests. In autocross testing, Max was .5 seconds faster in the dry and 1.8 seconds faster in the wet. All wheel drive acceleration tests resulted in a .9 second reduction up to 140 MPH. Reviewing the data and tapes we begged the test engineer to conduct brutal high RPM launches however he was hesitant to do so. He was new to the project and unaware how built max truly was. 


 

 


An unexpected benefit of the Comp-2 compared to other high-end tires, including the Comp-2’s predecessor, the KDW, was sound. Our professional driver, Ian Baas put it best saying, “The tire offered the best of both worlds. I was amazed that a high performance tire could be so composed on both the track and street, offering great grip and accuracy while still providing a quiet and comfortable ride.” 

 The improvements to the Comp-2 over the previous design come thanks to several design changes from BFGoodrich. The Silica-infused compounds improve wet traction. The high-tech elastomer system improves maximum control during spirited driving. The new tread compound rigidity increases responsiveness. The new tread pattern provides proven stability and maximum cornering power while g-Hooks provide biting edges for grip at any cornering angle. Internal structure features a reinforced construction that delivers increased responsiveness, control and durability as well as serious control in hard cornering. This new technology resulted in a 30% / 8% improvement in wet/dry grip conditions for precise control. 

 

 Words and pictures can only say so much about the performance of a tire, so we’ve prepared a video to show case the days testing. Enjoy!


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## notavr (Aug 28, 2012)

soo.. how did you defeat the traction control :sly:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

notavr said:


> soo.. how did you defeat the traction control :sly:


 We just turned it off in the controllers.


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## Cajetan (Feb 1, 2012)

Is there a long term effect in running the AWD controller in RACE all the time?


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