# Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (chip/stock) out there?



## Gambit (Apr 4, 2001)

I dynoed my car soon after I got the chip and here's what I got








This was done on APR's 93 octane program with a mix of fuel in the tank - everything else stock. I'd be curious to see some other dynos posted, be it other APRs or just stock numbers (or GIAC or UP etc.)


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (chip/stock) out there? (Gambit)*

You're showing less parasitic loss than the dyno-day that I took measurements (making your numbers more impressive). Never heard, did you get the binary files from your run?


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## Sheep (Dec 21, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

I'd like to know what %'s are typically used for hp loss on a quattro?
APR's charts advertise 263hp/267ft-lb crank for 93oct chip, so these are showing much better. Perhaps their #'s were generated on car(s) which were not completly broken in. Even if we use 15% for loss, your #'s calculate at the crank to 276hp/309!!! If this figuring is correct, your car (and the chip) produces well. Are you completely bone stock? .....any engine mods which would help increase output....CAI, catback, etc??? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Interesting info because I've been in contact with APR waiting on them for an '03 file.

[Modified by Sheep, 1:58 PM 4-5-2003]


[Modified by Sheep, 2:01 PM 4-5-2003]


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## P (Jun 2, 2001)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

nm


[Modified by P, 6:55 PM 4-5-2003]


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## CHRG_IN (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (P)*

I thought 15% was the figure to use for front wheel drive. I thought DSR claimed 25% - 30% for Quattro. 
The only wierd part is that on the street we usually are only powering the fronts due to Haldex.


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## Sheep (Dec 21, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (CHRG_IN)*

I implied I didn't know what were "official" #'s used for quattros. I seriously doubt you could use #'s that high or the crank hp/tq figures posted above would SOAR even higher to 313hp/351tq at the crank using 25%....way too high!!! I know many guys like to use 15% on their FWD Mk4's (that will fatten their power #'s) but from so-called experts it's better to use 13%. Your typical RWD domestics (F-bodies, Vettes, Stangs etc) use 15% for driveline losses on manuals and 20% on automatics. I do not know what a Mustang dyno operator would use. I merely was speculating how good his #'s were with only a 1.0bar chip using obviously conservative loss factors considering APR does not "push the envelope" on hp #'s with ultra high boost files.


[Modified by Sheep, 5:29 PM 4-7-2003]


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Sheep)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I do not know what a Mustang dyno operator would use.[HR][/HR]​The loss vs. speed curve is available in the binary file.


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## CHRG_IN (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

I am not trying to slam "Sheep", the 25% was just what I had heard. The reason it is so high is because your powering 3 differentials plus all 4 wheels.


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## Sheep (Dec 21, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (CHRG_IN)*

Yup, I understand the multi diff thing. I'd just like to know what that "number" is so we could get a truer interpretation of the dyno posted above at the crank. APR/GIAC are the two chips I'm interested in and waiting for both of them to come up with files for '03's. Leaning toward APR at this point and the graph above is basically saying GIAC doesn't even come close (they claim 260/290 crank). APR claims 263hp/267ft lb for the previous years' files. Possibly he's got some FREAK. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## CHRG_IN (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Sheep)*

“Sheep”- I am using GIAC-X chip, Evoms cone intake, Forge 006 DV, Jetex 2.75 Exhaust. I need to check my Dyno Graph when I get home to confirm. 
On the 4-wheel dyno my car pulled 212 HP & 230 TQ at the wheel. If you adjust for 25% you end up at 282 HP & 306 TQ. This is the same calculation that Sport Compact Car used on this exact dyno to calculate the figures for a stock WRX, in stock form when they divided the wheel numbers by .75 they got approximately the factory claimed numbers. It seams like the easy way to get a general idea. The thing I regret is that I did not start with a “factory stock” Dyno run so I could measure how much I really gained from all the parts I added.


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## Sheep (Dec 21, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (CHRG_IN)*

Sounds very, very good. Now your #'s seem to be more realistic. I know *M this 1!* has an X chip on his. Are you using a 91oct file or were you able to get some higher octane stuff for the dyno run? If that's on 91, you're doing extremely well.
I'm finding out that these quattro drivelines really need time to loosen up. I could stop on hill and the thing would not roll backward. Just drove 500mi round trip at 75-85mph (to get new wheels and tires) and now it starts to roll back even on slight incline, 1250mi total on clock right now. It took my Jet 1.8T a good 5000mi to get worked in and guess this will take the same also. I need chipping badly....it's such a dog in showroom stk form.
I'm probably going to get another PiperX Viper CAI like I had on the Jet...it was very good. I've been told by any number of reputable folks (APR dealers, Stratmosphere, etc) that you ought to use a diaphragm type DV (that's what stock one is in our cars and they seldom fail supposedly...cheap too!) with these motors as they seal much better than piston variety. I had a 006 on the K04'd Jet and it worked fine. The fellow who built that exhaust (it was 3" turbo back with ATP DP) is going to do another 3" catback most likely on this car, although I'm considering telling him to get 2.75". But there are few muffs that use that sizing for inlet/outlet. We'll see. Keep me/us posted if you find some goodies that help moreso.


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Sheep)*









quote:[HR][/HR]Yup, I understand the multi diff thing. I'd just like to know what that "number" is so we could get a truer interpretation of the dyno posted above at the crank...[HR][/HR]​Here's one from a Mustang dyno, loss includes tires and drivelines for both car and dyno. So loss on road is less than this, unless you want to equate the dyno loss to wind resistance, then it's nowhere near as much. Another loss not measured is one from inadequate air flow over the intercoolers. Those big fans positioned in front of the car only put out about 20 mph wind. It feels like a lot, but it's nowhere near true road speed.


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## Gambit (Apr 4, 2001)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

John - I spoke with the dyno operator and he exported the runs from my dyno on a floppy as .csv files but they are lacking anything past the runs themselves. I believe that he applies the dyno brakes when the pull is done so the system comes to stop fast, instead of rolling to a stop (and logging) as you described. What do I need to ask him next time I dyno so that I get the whole picture? I will post what I have from those .csv files as soon as I find them (in a floppy somewhere







)


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Gambit)*

quote:[HR][/HR]John - I spoke with the dyno operator and he exported the runs from my dyno on a floppy as .csv files...[HR][/HR]​No, not a .csv file. You want the .bin files. Operators typically do not name the files, they just let the machine increment a file number, but that’s ok, you can find yours from the files date and time off your graphs. Download the Mdsp7000 program from Mustang. There are 3 viewers. One that makes the graph you posted (one way to verify you’ve got the correct file). Another is Trace Data Graph Viewer. It will show you PAU, parasitic, acceleration, static and total power among other things. So you’ll see your parasitic power curve vs. rpm or mph. Graph posted shows 11.50 hp at 50 mph, so you know a curve was used but you only know now one point (50 mph). With the .bin file you can make .csv files. The program is nice, it’s the one you saw the operator using. If you’re knowledgeable about computers, and the operator isn’t, then you’ll probably quickly get better at using all the features than he is. Usually they only us a small set of features and only with the default values.
The way the software to run the dyno is set up, the last parasitic run is automatically entered for the next dyno run. Parasitic run is a different mode of operation, not the slowdown brake after a regular run. If the operator didn’t do a parasitic run on your car he either applied one from a car he thought was similar or he just continued to use the last one left in the system.


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

how are you guys dynoing the quattro cars?? are you having to use a 4 wheel dyno like all other normal AWD cars or is there a trick to where you can use the haldex on a 2 wheel dyno??


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Rave'nGTi)*

there are a few 4wheels out there. annoying thing is they almost double the price for a pull. like it takes more labor or something. i did hear you can pull the Haldex fuse, but hell if i'm going to try that.


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (M this 1!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]there are a few 4wheels out there. annoying thing is they almost double the price for a pull[HR][/HR]​I got 4 pulls for $50. Your price my vary. Go with a gang and be real nice to the operator.


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

where the hell did you go? in L.A. it's basically $125 for a session.


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## fitch (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (chip/stock) out there? (Gambit)*

good numbers


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## CHRG_IN (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Sheep)*

My numbers were done on 91-octane fuel. M This 1! Is also using FMIC but other then that the cars are very similar, same chip and intake but different exhaust. As to the intake, finding one for the 225 TTR was not easy. I am using the EVOMS one because it has an adaptor plate so it incorporates the stock cold air snorkel. It also comes with heat shielding that gives the illusion of a stock air box. The down side is that it is located in the engine bay and quite loud! As to the DV if you use the stock 225-diaphragm type you get a very annoying honking sound at 3700 rpm. Ounce I changed the valve the noise went away and the car spools up very nicely.


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (M this 1!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]where the hell did you go? in L.A. it's basically $125 for a session. [HR][/HR]​


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

..well i sure the hell hope your still wearing jackets and driving in the snow, out there!










[Modified by M this 1!, 3:59 PM 4-15-2003]


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## Gambit (Apr 4, 2001)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

The place where I did this dyno charges $100/hour. I got charged $50 for all the pulls which was 4 + the initial run which was not graphed (as far as I know) but he did it to see what my speed was at certain RPM. John - is this what the Parasitic loss run is?


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Gambit)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...the initial run which was not graphed (as far as I know) but he did it to see what my speed was at certain RPM. John - is this what the Parasitic loss run is?[HR][/HR]​No, but it would have followed immediately after this calibration.


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## Gambit (Apr 4, 2001)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

Because I love digging up the past








Here's some new results from my car. I just came back from the same dyno, however I have lost ALOT of power since my last visit







Most likely it's due to the heat (temp was ~98, humidity 45%) I could see the car visibly shake on the dyno at about 4000 rpm and the results are visible on the dyno itself.
Setup:
TT 225 with APR 100 octane program driven with CPChem TT101 fuel for over 100 miles.
Greddy BOV running in DV mode,
ECS N75 valve.
Results were:
1st run - drive train resistance - took the car up to 120 mph and let it coast down to 0 (I have the file but have no clue how to view it - it's .dpf format)
2nd run - calibrating the dyno at 3500 rpm in 3rd gear (~84 mph)
3rd run - 214 whp, 251 wtorque
4th run - 215 whp, 251 wtorque both of these runs showed an large dip at ~4000 rpm, suspect that I was pulling timing.
5th run - 217.9 whp, 251 wtorque - this run was done in the 93 octane program because of the suspected timing issue. I have block 120 graphs of runs 3 and 4, and block 003 (timing) of run 5. I will post data as soon as I can, however, I'm not very happy with my 93 octane program producing more power than my 100 octane







This time I actually ran out of fuel before I put the 101 in there and I drove with it for 100 miles (as mentioned before) before I went to dyno.


_Modified by Gambit at 5:03 PM 8-23-2003_


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Gambit)*

Thanks for the gas link. TT101 is both oxygenated and high density so power numbers should have been high. Maybe ECU was limiting boost based on temperature, did you log block 204? Looks like you did the runs in 3rd gear, temperature is less of a problem in third than 4th. 98°F in the shade is high, so not all that surprising February numbers were better. Did you get the .bin files this time?


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## Gambit (Apr 4, 2001)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

I didn't get the .bin files but I got the file he used to log the rolling resistance (I guess) on the 1st run - when he took the car up to 120 and let it cost down and that file has a dpf extension. Perhaps I need to go back and have him search for the bin file? He showed me the curve from the dpf file - it had an option for power, torque and force... I still need to figure out how to read this file - if I send it to you can you see if it's what I need? It's only a couple of Kbs
Here's the block 120 of run 3 and run 4 (both 100 octane runs)


















_Modified by Gambit at 1:12 PM 8-24-2003_


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Gambit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gambit* »_I didn't get the .bin files but I got the file he used to log the rolling resistance (I guess) on the 1st run - when he took the car up to 120 and let it cost down and that file has a dpf extension. Perhaps I need to go back and have him search for the bin file? He showed me the curve from the dpf file - it had an option for power, torque and force... I still need to figure out how to read this file - if I send it to you can you see if it's what I need? It's only a couple of Kbs

The dpf file only has parameters not data, open it with notepad. You need a set of bin files from each run, including coastdown. Use the time stamp on your dyno plots to find the correct files.


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## Gambit (Apr 4, 2001)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (john s)*

crap...
I will have to go back to the dyno and look for those bin files... What do you think about that big dip in the graph above?


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## john s (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Any Audi TT 225 Dynos (Gambit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gambit* »_crap...
I will have to go back to the dyno and look for those bin files... What do you think about that big dip in the graph above?

BIN files have much better resolution - raw data. Default is 10 samples per second. So we can see if there was an oscillation. Smoothing of the data plot can mask what's happening and only show a dip. Take a box of floppies with you and get those files. If you used 3rd gear the files are probably only 30K each, coastdown maybe 200K. LDB and MDB can be interesting. You’ll need to span disks to get the MDB. By default it will have all the dyno plots they have made to date in it.


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