# So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Ok,
So, I had $800 to throw at EIP's 3" exhaust but I may just have to put it into the motor.
Here's what happened back in early October:
Hitting it hard down Rt 100 in Exton, Pa when I started to feel a bit *extra* boost. I took it easy but then it seemed to calm down a bit. Well, I got on it HARD in second and the vacuum line popped off my WG and I surged up to 15psi (I've got 30# injectors).
White smoke out the back and all. 
Pulled over, let it idle...
Same 18hg at idle on the boost guage that I always get ... so I never thought twice about it.
Fixed the vacuum line that popped off and went about my merry way.
Never felt a loss of power either - and honestly, the car runs perfectly.
Well, 
Take a look at these pics and keep in mind that there is NO SCORING at all on the cylinder walls. It's quite amazing that the piston melted just enough to melt but didn't do anything else. Problem is, I can't put it back together like this.
Need advice on options for the bottom end AND advice on my HEAD too...(see the pic):
*The piston*









*Another*









*A blurry closeup*









*A general "head-shot"*









*Corresponding 'mark' on the head (here's where I need advice)*









*Is this oil leaking through my seals from the head? Need advice here too*








Guys,
It looks as though I ran lean just long enough to slighly melt the piston but not to do any further damage.
Here's my quandry:
Rebuild the entire block with stock parts?
Replace just the one piston?
Bore it out and go with oversized pistons?
B/c of that little bit of oil coming out of valve rebuild entire head???

Help!!!!
Later,


_Modified by nater at 8:12 PM 11-23-2004_


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## Hammertime (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (nater)*

Wow that sucks Nater.
I'd rebuild the block with stock parts and take it easy (easier) next time. I wouldn't sleep at night if I were you and replaced just one piston. I'd replace almost everything.








Good luck dude.


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## bretter (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (Hammertime)*

sucks man.
i did:
je forged 81mm 9:1
c2 stock comp hg
arp everything
new oem rods


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (bretter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bretter* »_sucks man.
i did:
je forged 81mm 9:1
c2 stock comp hg
arp everything
new oem rods


Yea,
I'm wondering if it's not that hard to do yourself???? I mean, I'm no vw mechanic/tech but I've done a lot of crap already. 
Can it be done safely? I don't wanna blow up my motor







.

Later,


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (nater)*

Your pistons really don't look that hot - meaning lean. Those marks look less like detonation and more like the piston eating up a piece of metal. How does that spark plug look?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (2kjettaguy)*

2k,
Plug looks identical to all the others. Just black and sooty.
What kind of metal could it have eaten up??? Oh, by the way...I don't know if you can see it...but there is the smallest (like less than a mm) piece of the piston taken out of the side...
Don't know if you can see that though. But it's there.

Later,


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (nater)*

Weird, here's a few pictures from my meltdown a couple summers back:
Lean AFRs = steam cleaned pistons








Heavy pitting from detonation on the crowns front / back. Mine was spread out, and not as deep as yours
















#2, melted on top, blasted on the side!!








Any metal in your oil??


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

No metal in my oil and they certainly didn't look sand blasted like that. Still very carbon-covered.
Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Guys,
Keep in mind my look BLACK (and not sand-blasted) b/c I've been running a bit rich for a while until I finally got tuned by Jeff and C2.
And even after that, I have been running a bit rich due to the BOV not being re-routed.
Plus, this LEAN CONDITION was for a 2 second period. That's all.
Was enough to cause a problem but not enough to cause catostrophic failure or sand-blasted pistons....
EDIT:
I've also run this motor for well over a month (and ran the $HIT OUT OF IT at that ) with no issues.
Later,


_Modified by nater at 9:16 PM 11-23-2004_


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

I'm sticking with my first thought... you sucked up a piece of metal or something. Unless this is a total fluke, usually detonation will show itself on more than 1 slug / 6!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I know what you are saying, Evan... Could be.
I'm not sure. Bottom line is this:
I'm pulling the piston and replacing it. We'll see what the rest of it looks like when I pull it.
Then I gotta decide if I wanna replace the others...
Later,


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*

to me it looks like you either sucked up a FB(foreign body) or there was some serious valve float. it isnt detonation.
the piston deffinatly came in contact with SOMETHING. maybe the prark plug broke in pieces? whatever it was, if it wasnt in the cylinder when you opened the motor, it may be trapped by the cat,
take off the exhaust manifold and see if there is anything on the back of the exhaust port, like marks from a body exiting.
oops, your turbo, i thing your intercooler either let loose something, or your turbo's compressor let go.


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

yeah howd the spark plug look on that piston? i'd have to bet my 5 on foreign object. surely the turbo would be hating life if you were boosting on that. might wanna check out the blades on the turbo (both sides) to see if anything crawled in there before it bites it too


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## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (mrkrad)*

That looks like one of my pistons. Some ceramic plug insulator broke off and dinged up my piston. Lucky it didn't get your cyl wall, mine is slightly scored. 
I would run w/ that bottom end and look into the valve seals if not full head rebuild.


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## Looking4ajetta (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (mrkrad)*

That for sure looks like a foreign body to me as well.
F that Exhaust from EIP and fix the shortblock of your car to handle the amount of abuse you are giving it.
It's obvious you like to hand your car it's ass and there is nothing wrong with this unless you want to be continually having this problem and tearing your motor apart again trying to figure out what's wrong.
Spend the $600 something on pistons, $300 for machine work and call it good. Block now (necessity) exhaust later (icing on the cake).
I mean what's the point of running a bigger exhaust for right? On a stock block?
Do the right thing!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

All good points guys...
Keep 'em coming.
Later,


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## Fedawg (Jul 24, 2003)

Hey nater , i keep catchin u on the Bimmerforums.com....we got to show those bimmers whats up , lol , sorry to see motor in such condition


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I just like going on there and seeing if they give dub guys respect...
Interesting. 
See you there.
Later,


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## Stephen Webb (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (nater)*

I'll have to jump on the bandwagon, too. It' looks like a foreign object. Notice how only the "high" part of the piston shows marks. (Why does VW put that crest on the pistons, anyway? I don't think I see other manufacturers doing that...) Probably a small foreign object since the marks aren't everywhere.
The fact that it only happened in one cylinder as well as the marks only showing up in one area of the piston seem to point away from melted piston, though the pictures aren't very clear -- certainly not the same as looking at it first hand. The "melted" portion looks sort of like a melted hershey bar, or something. I don't think aluminum melts the same way









I think you asked about rebuilding the motor yourself. I will say that you can probably do the job (you pulled the head, right?). I assume you have a torque wrench (or will buy one if you don't have one), and that you can follow directions reasonably well (and know when to ask questions when you don't understand...) -- so, I'd say you can do the job. 
I'll warn you, though, that doing the "full" job will take time, patience and money that you might not expect. For instance you will strip the block down and take it to the machine shop. They will clean the block, which means you have to put in new "freeze" plugs and intermediate shaft bearings. While it's in the machine shop getting bored and cleaned, should you clean up the deck too? Sure why not? And if you are doing that, you might as well get the main bearings bored (or at least checked). Gee, it sure would be a shame to put all this money into a block that could be cracked -- the engine saw high boost, after all. So you might as well have it checked for cracks before you do all this work. And, gee -- it would be a shame to put cast pistons back in....And, of course sense I stripped and cleaned the block, every single gasket has to be installed new. Wow, wouldn't this be the time to paint the block...
The other (very reasonable alternative) is to just replace the pistons (and, hey, maybe just that one depending on how many miles, etc) The bores sure do look good -- I'd grab a flex-hone and a piston with new rings and have at it. If the rod bearing on that piston looks particularly worn, then it may be wise to check another one to make sure detonation hasn't been paying you a visit. Even if only the one is bad, you should replace it, which more or less means replacing all of them (you have to buy them in a set). Don't forget the rod bolts need to be replaced whenever you loosen them. So, even the "quick and dirty" route will be involved. As long as you are ready for that, I say go for it. I can't stand paying someone to work on my car (tires, alignment and trans rebuilds are all I let someone else do..)
Good luck.
-Steve


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Steve,
Good points. I understand it will be $$$$ no matter which way I do it.
I also understand how much MORE $$$$ it will be if someone else does.
Since this engine is a VW factory rebuild I need to pull the piston and check it's size. 
Once I do that I'll be back up on this thread with my new questions. 
B/c if a std stock vr6 piston is 1/2mm too small I may end up getting them replaced anyway...and then going all out.
Thanks again.
Oh, and yes...I did pull the head. I pulled the motor too. I've done cams on it and installed my Turbo. So, as long as rebuilding the block is just following directions closely and being as mechanically involved as the previously mentioned jobs, I feel as though I can do it. But again, maybe it's more "technical" than any of those jobs I mentioned above...in that case, please tell me...before I go out doing it







.
Later,


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## BahnStormer202 (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

If I were you I would go with full rebuild; it's "not" that expensive and you will have a piece of mind.
Figure $700 Je pistons, $300 machine work, $100 C2 spacer(you can sell your old one), ~$300 ARP hardware, $200 timing chain, etc. and around $100 for misc gaskets.
As for the head, I paid 140 for labor, clean it up and have it checked out. It needed 4 new valves and decided to put all new lifters, this was something like extra 300 bux... but all well wort it.
DO IT RIGHT OR DO IT TWICE. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (nater)*

ive ran into tons of stuff similar. im almost an expert on a good fix for little money.
you deffinatley have to take off the compressor and exhaust housings on the turbo and inspect it. most likley it will have damage. whatever got in the combustion chamber either made its way out damaging the turbo, or is still in the head.
After you inspect the turbo, you have to really check out the head. The valve area may be nicked and scored. you should ahve done a compression test before you pulled the head. If money is tight, just repair the valves and seals on that 1 cylinder. 
I dont think you HAVE to change the piston. Of corse it never hurts, but if you simply put that piston at TDC, you can smooth out any marks with a dremel and a sanding wheel. Just make all the marks smooth so there are no edges. 
thats what id do if money is the #1 concern, and you need the car on the road asap, which on this forum, is usually the case!


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (speed51133!)*

Personally I don't see the point in putting in a totally built block if one is still in the learning stages of FI. No offense to Nate or anything, but if he doesn't know what went wrong, he's still in the learning stages. It takes alot of mistakes and alot of learning just like this to get there. Why spend all that money on a fully built block when something like this is bound to pop up again? 
Seems wasteful to me when the VR is beefy by nature. 
IMO







Talk amongst yourselves


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## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (2kjettaguy)*

THe haed pics are really blurry but what is the scoring on the valve in the last pic. COuld it have contacted that piston????? knocked a chunch loose????


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_Personally I don't see the point in putting in a totally built block if one is still in the learning stages of FI. No offense to Nate or anything, but if he doesn't know what went wrong, he's still in the learning stages. It takes alot of mistakes and alot of learning just like this to get there. Why spend all that money on a fully built block when something like this is bound to pop up again? 
Seems wasteful to me when the VR is beefy by nature. 
IMO







Talk amongst yourselves









No offense taken.
But if this is bound to pop up again I am trying to skip that step by possibly building the block up. I mean, why would it pop up again as long as I've got solid tuning, which I do.
I mean, a boost spike would be my biggest problem at this point - but that could happen to anybody.
As for the last pic, the last pic actually shows a different cylinder (on the other side of the head) and shows oil leaking down from the top part of the head and thru the valve seals.
The picture before that shows the valve seat on the same cylinder - and show whatever foreign object that got in also smacking the valve seat - marks on the valve seat are about the same as the ones on the piston...but no marks on the valve itself.
Here's what I'm leaning towards:
Replace that piston
Have head thoroughly checked and possibly rebuilt
Reassemble motor and keep my $$$$$ for when the motor REALLY blows up.








80% chance I do that.

20% chance still that I rebuild the entire block...
Mulling it over.
Later,


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (12 SEC ABA)*

whatever did that to your motor, would do the same if you had forged pistons, BVH, forged rods, standalone, etc.
only difference is youd be out alot more money.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (nater)*

you missing a screw from the TB butterfly or something like that? I would look up the intake tract for the culprit if a spark plug did not come apart. You definitely sucked something hard in.
Someone had a good ide to look in front of the cat. I am sure you will find it there.
S


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Someone had a good ide to look in front of the cat. 

Look in front of what?

















Seriously tho, I'll take a good look at things tonight and see what I can find out.
Don't want it happening again...that's for sure.
Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Damn guys...
I can't make up my mind.
But I'm actually leaning towards having Schimmel build me a 3L turbo block.
More to come...And thoughts welcomed in the interim.

Later,


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Look in front of what?










LOL
Maybe you passed it like a kidney stone


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (sdezego)*

Looks more to me like there was a piece of material that was bouncing around in the cylinder. 

EDIT:
I guess I should read the whole post before I post


_Modified by BubonicCorrado at 3:41 AM 11-25-2004_


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (BubonicCorrado)*

so is there any damage to the turbo?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (mavric)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mavric* »_so is there any damage to the turbo?

I haven't taken the turbo apart to see (from the inside) but the exhaust housing and intake on turbo look PERFECT. No knicks, scratches, etc...

Later,


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## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: So...Maybe I melted a piston...take a look at my pistons and head. P00P (nater)*

I've always been impressed with your ride. IMO I would take this situation and use it as a means to go forward. Don't stagnate and rebuild it stock. Don't half step and make minor improvements. Take this op and go the full monty (if you can)!
Do the works and be done with it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm no expert or nothing, could it be a piston ring?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I'm no expert either but it's not a piston ring. I believe these guys when they say it's probably a Foreign Object.
I think I am going to make the most of this opportunity. I'm making it a 3L Schimmel block.
Bringing it to him tomorrow.
Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Kinda on this topic...
What is the star-shaped bolt on the rear (pulley/passenger side) of the motor?
It's the only bolt there and there appears to be an o-ring too. I just want to know so that while it's all apart I can identify it and put into my little 'baggies'. 

















I'm learning but still a long way off on some of these little things.
Looks like it holds nothing in place. I'm not going to touch it, just want to document it (I wouldn't care if there wasn't an oring attached







).
TIA
Later,


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## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

You need to learn how to use the macro setting on your camera for those close-up pictures first!
And as for rebuilding, I went from nothing but a block to starting the car in less than 20 hours, by myself for everything but putting the engine in, and it started right up and I am pushing 16psi now with no mechanical problems. And I am definitely no VW tech, and had never even seen a piston before I took mine out.
All you need is a bentley, the right tools, and some mechanical know-how.
Good luck, keep us posted. And EIP makes some nice forged low-compression pistons at 10% off








Ryan


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

Got 2 of the pistons out.
Here's some closeups of the piston that took the beating:

































Those rods look pretty straight right?








Later,


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## Scrubby_4 (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

The one on the left look s funy , have it checked , just in case. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TAI-VW boosted Dubs (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

That looks like a bolt/nut or piece of spark plug got inside your combustion chamber,sure doesn't look like detonation......as for that o-ring,it is simply a piece of the headgasket that "stuck" to the block when you removed it........that star shaped thingy is a oil control jet,it feeds and maintains a certain psi pressure while feeding oil to the heads oil gallery,lubricating the lifters,cam,etc. Throw that "o-ring"away,on the headgasket you will see it will seal around that jet.....DON'T forget to re-install the little green o-ring feeding the timing chain tensioner,on the upper rear timing cover.....


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*

keep us informed....looks like the rods are straight but better have them checked anyway just to be safe


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## TAI-VW boosted Dubs (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: (mavric)*

Severe Detonation can look all crazy and pock-marked like that,but I thought it was odd that only one cylinder was so severely damaged and your others were "ok"..........maybe that injector was bad,or tyou were mis-firing a lot,who knows??


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## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_I'm no expert either but it's not a piston ring. I believe these guys when they say it's probably a Foreign Object.
I think I am going to make the most of this opportunity. I'm making it a 3L Schimmel block.
Bringing it to him tomorrow.
Later,

U DA MAN! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (jamaicula)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamaicula* »_
U DA MAN! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Here's what I figure...
All the crap I've done already, I am almost positive that I'll end up doing this later on anyway (a full rebuild) so why not just cut my losses and do it now - while I've gotten the motor out and all - I'd hate to have to pull this wh0re out again to be honest







.
Plus, my wife said to me: "just get it done right, I don't want this happening again".
So, I'm getting it done right.








Later,


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## Boragirl03 (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (Scrubby_4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scrubby_4* »_The one on the left look s funy , have it checked , just in case. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

on my screen it just looks like it is soaked in oil.


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## Boragirl03 (Nov 23, 2002)

nater- I am still a little lost, you said it still ran perfectly? What told you to disassemble the motor?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

It DID run perfectly.
I decided to PULL the motor only b/c I was having the trans rebuilt (I'm one guy and it's hard to pull out and reinstall trans with one set of hands) plus, I needed to do a head gasket.
I also had to put in a new A/C condenser (which requires pulling the front end off basically).
So, it's funny...but one person can pull the motor out easier than one person can pull out and reinstall a trans (keep in mind, I have no lift...car up on ramps).
I HAD to pull the head to install my head spacer. When I pulled the head I saw the piston which looked BAD.
That's how I got into this whole 'mess'.
If I pulled the head and saw 6 perfect pistons I would have just cleaned the mating surfaces and just slapped the spacer on and re-assembled.
But I didn't...so that's why I'm here.
Hope it makes a bit of sense. I know for ppl that don't know much about my story that it probably doesn't make much sense.
Oh, and plus I wanted to replace my timing chains.








And also guys (boragirl)...reason the pics are so big is not b/c I'm a total retard...I DID make the pics smaller with my microsoft photo editor.
But they were just not small enough...at this point I was only too lazy to resave them and upload to my website and re-post...








Pics on page 3 (if it gets that far) will be fit to the length of thesreen.
Later,


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## jedimindcontrol (Apr 7, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

Forged rods & pistons. Stop F'ning around and do it right. That way you can lay down the serious boost and not worry. Its only money. 
And call me back dammit!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I'll stick with stock rods cause I'm not too worried about them. plus, those rods are expensive.
Later,


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## mavric (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

You'll be fine with stock rods, they are pretty damn strong.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Well, 
Took the head to schimmel today and after him taking a very good look at it, it appears as though an older spark plug (from God knows when) decided to take a trip into my combustion chamber.
Looks like he saw what looks like a small piece of one lodged into the head.
Looks like a full head rebuild, in addition to my 3L low end rebuild. 
Good and bad. But I'm excited about driving this beast when I'm done.

Later,


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

defo have the rods reconditioned and you can probably have them fixed up to use ARP hardware. shotpeen whatever and ARP fitment if necessary while you got it apart. have those injectors benched too or replace them if they aren't new. even new injectors can fail, even after being flowbenched. the weakest link will get ya, don't let it get ya again.


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## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

does it say anything under the piston about who makes it and stuff? u really wanna know who makes the stock pistons


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## Scrubby_4 (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*

I think their kolbenschmidts, or something like that. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Looking4ajetta (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

Becuase you are going f/i your not going to need a lot of expensive head work done, just the damaged parts fixed, which is going to be so much nicer on your pocket book.
What is the block work going to cost you?


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## brax (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: (Looking4ajetta)*

if the block is fine just replace the piston-"s" and bearings, get yourself a headspacer so you can lower comp and run higher boost safely, the metal was prolly the chunk of piston or your plug tips that melted and bounced around before they blew out the exhaust, inspect your exhaust housein on the turbo wheel closely, if it gets out of balance it will destroy the turbo bearings, last but not least buy a EGT gauge so you know before things melt!!! GL all the rods should be fine cept for the one on the cylinder with the debrie in it
brax


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blak Golf* »_does it say anything under the piston about who makes it and stuff? u really wanna know who makes the stock pistons









To be honest, I don't care who makes the stock pistons now - as I'll be leaving them for good.
As for the previous poster, I've got new injectors...And the rods are reconditioned (maybe not shot-peened).
Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Looking4ajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Looking4ajetta* »_Becuase you are going f/i your not going to need a lot of expensive head work done, just the damaged parts fixed, which is going to be so much nicer on your pocket book.
What is the block work going to cost you?

I'm only doing a stock rebuild (on the head).
Block is 2k.
Later,


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

Those are hot spots in the chamber.This is the type of damage you see when you run a large shot of NOS and have fuel delivery problems.
The other pictures are just a slightly lean condition that revealed itself on the freeway in a big gear.


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

don't forget to replace your oil pump and coolant pump with the new block as well.








I just rebuild my VR for boost using all stock parts with the exception of headstuds and eurospec 8.5:1 spacer. I just took it to the machine shop around the corner from my house and had the guy hot tank, magnaflux and measure everything. It was my first time rebuilding an engine but I was lucky enough to have access to a full shop with a lift and someone who is very knowledgeable if needed. Needless to say I learned A LOT in the process







. The engine now has over 3k on it and running strong.


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## Vr6Fidelity (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Let me throw something different into the mix... You have damage where you have no squish on the piston, I just cant stop thinking about that. Is it detonating in that tiny little recess there? Just a thought. Are you close to the pistons thermal limit? I notice there are also edges there which mean hot spots.
What sombody else said was if it is a FOD than the object would have fubar'd your turbine wheel and the object would be impailed in the engine side of your cat. Is there anything there?


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## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAI-VW boosted Dubs* »_that star shaped thingy is a oil control jet,it feeds and maintains a certain psi pressure while feeding oil to the heads oil gallery,lubricating the lifters,cam,etc. Throw that "o-ring"away,on the headgasket you will see it will seal around that jet..... 

Does the star-shaped oil jet come out w/ a triple square tool? I need to get my block cleaned up and don't want to leave it in if its possible to remove...


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Vr6Fidelity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vr6Fidelity* »_Let me throw something different into the mix... You have damage where you have no squish on the piston, I just cant stop thinking about that. Is it detonating in that tiny little recess there? Just a thought. Are you close to the pistons thermal limit? I notice there are also edges there which mean hot spots.
What sombody else said was if it is a FOD than the object would have fubar'd your turbine wheel and the object would be impailed in the engine side of your cat. Is there anything there? 

It WAS a foreign object...probably the spark plug. It probably happened some time before my turbocharger. There was no detonation there.
Problem has been solved. Head is being rebuilt.
Again, problem solved. I appreciate everybody's help!!!








Later,


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## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Might want to change that signatue nate...car isn't running so perfectly at the moment!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_Might want to change that signatue nate...car isn't running so perfectly at the moment!

It WAS running perfectly the day I pulled the motor.
But I appreciate you reminding me.
Later,


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Nate, did you not read the long thread I started about plugs last year. What plugs were you running?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

F6dtc (or whatever they're called)...
Schimmel suggested that I ran a bit hot plugs...that the plug could have melted and dropped into the comb chamber.
I'll try a cooler plug.
And no, I missed that thread.








Later,


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

I have had great success with NGK R5672A-8's gapped at 0.028". I get a perfect burn running 11-12psi.
Nate, If you want, drop me a line with all your specs and I'll ask my contact at NGK's R&D department for you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Well,
I think I already told you guys (can't remember) that is was confirmed that a plug got a bit hot and fell into the combustion chamber causing this ruckus. I've now gotten the head back after a full head rebuild including HD valve springs and 3 angle valve job. Found a couple bent valves in there too and most of the seals were shot.







damn.
But here's what Schimmel recommended (and I believe him after all the fast vr's he's built):
NGK R5671A-7 and
NGK R5671A-8's.
If I am remembering correctly, the 8's are colder than 7's right?
He threw in a set of each and said the 7's were probably good enough but said if I turn boost up 8's would be best.
I'll just skip that step and go with the colder plugs.
Question for you experts:
If I run a colder plug (the 8's over the 7's) when the 7's would be good enough how does that affect performance?
IE: if 7's are good enough but I'm a bit anxious about this happening again and go with 8's is my performance gonna hurt???
Oh, and for pics of the new 3.0L long block assembled in my van see the current page of the thread in my sig about my turbo project!








Later,


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

I think the only problem with a to cold plug is, that the carbon built-up on the plug will not burn good enough and stick on the plug, meaning after a while you will have misfires.


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_I'm sticking with my first thought... you sucked up a piece of metal or something. Unless this is a total fluke, usually detonation will show itself on more than 1 slug / 6! 

maybe part of a spark plug broke off when the car was not turbo, dinged up the piston etc. and escaped, hence the lack of damage to the turbo. I'd say its not detonation but a foreign object bouncing around in there.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rippinralf* »_
maybe part of a spark plug broke off when the car was not turbo, dinged up the piston etc. and escaped, hence the lack of damage to the turbo. I'd say its not detonation but a foreign object bouncing around in there.









Thanks man







. We DID find out what happened though. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Later,


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## advanced technologys (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

it looks as if you sucked some thing in the intake track


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Thanks man







. We DID find out what happened though. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Later,

Good stuff








Later Nater http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## Scrubby_4 (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*

What the helll caused the bent valves?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Scrubby_4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scrubby_4* »_What the helll caused the bent valves?

Well...I may have bent them myself while trying to get the timing chains off (trying to loosen the cam sprocket) after I got the one tensioner off (meaning, I think I turned my cam sprocket and skipped a few teeth on my timing chain) which could have caused the valves to contact the pistons.
Otherwise, maybe I over-revved at some point (althought I can't remember any *big* over-rev's).
Later,


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