# Audi turning the corner or turning its back?



## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

As a long time Audi owner and enthusiast, and even longer admirer of cars from Ingolstdt, I'm delighted to see the brand finally recover from the 60 Minutes hack job with some really exciting new products like the R8 and S5. However, I've noticed that in Audi's quest to increase sales in the US, they have seem to taken the old timers for granted and is slowly turning away from the enthusiast core that helped save the brand in the US.
Audi brand in the US has always stood for certain “contrarian” qualities and principles; these are the very same anti-establishment ethos that the current Audi advertising campaign is trying to tap. But what made Audi different was not just its quirky adherence to all-wheel-drive or its Bauhaus styling, although both were real differentiations from the rest of the pack. Audi made a name for itself in the US post-60 Minutes by its commitment to its loyal owners: those savage fools who wanted clothes interiors and manual transmission with their Germany luxury cars. Bucking the trend for so long, Audi made manual transmission available in virtually all model and engine combo available in A4 and A6 family of cars. It made a point of pairing the wagons with Quattro: the two core attribute of the Audi branding.
Lately, Audi has been on a different track. I do not blame Audi for its new found love affair with SUVs. After all, if Audi is to continue to exists and do well, it has to sell SUVs. But trouble began in my opinion with the decision to not import the new A6 allroad. This was the car that launched the high riding wagon genre that spawned a legion of imitators. Audi’s decision to abandon the market means current allroad owners, some of the most loyal Audi owners that I’ve met, will have no Audi to choose from when they need to trade in their car. Of course the giant white elephant in the room with this decision is obvious… A6 Avant, which counted on the allroad to provide enough volume, is on life support in the US. Again, I don’t blame Audi for selling a SUV but I find it hard to imagine that any allroad owners will come back for another Audi. There are the people that decided SUV was not their choice so it’s unlikely that they will buy a Q7. Maybe they will buy an A6 Avant but gone are the choice of engines in the A6/allroad days(2.7TT, 3.0 V6, 4.2 V8) and transmissions. With deminishing options, sales will continue to tank and in time, Audi will tell us that there is simply no business case for the car and cancels it, ignoring the fact that just 5 years ago, it sold as many allroads and it could import. Same could be said about S6 Avant, which sadly was not replaced. 
Other enthusiast unfriendly news from Audi lately continues the trend. A4 will no longer be available with manual transmission with V6 engine. TTS will be automatic (albeit a DSG but still not a manual) only car. S4 Avant will be dropped when B8 arrives. 3.0 TDI, the golden child that we’ve been waiting for will be auto only. And to add insult to injury, Audi won’t confirm if the 3.0 TDI will be offered in the A4 Avant. All this in stack contrast to BMW, which goes out of its way to ensure manual is available as a sold option on all 3 and 5 series models, including the sublim 535xi wagon (a car that reminds me of the S6 Avant that Audi said no one wanted). Or Mercedes, which sold out all the E55 wagons allotted to the US before a single one reached US port. Meanwhile Audi steadily retrench from the hi-po wagon scene. 
I've been an Audi owner for a good part of 15 years. During the same time, I've also owned several BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Mazda, and Honda. But everytime I come back to Audi when it came time to replace my car. But I'm not sure Audi really wants my business any more.











_Modified by bzcat at 3:18 PM 3-10-2008_


----------



## verb.move (Jun 30, 2006)

Wagon Power.
I agree that the Avant is a very vital part of the Audi community. Id say that many of the most loyal Audi owners are Avant owners. Although we never received the RS4, RS2, RS6 in Avant forms, it is a core piece of Audi's heritage and should be celebrated.
Im not sure where this is going, so I will end it here and say this: I <3 Avants.


----------



## A4Jetta (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (bzcat)*

Sportswagon is the best definition of SUV in the days of high gas prices, Avant is the best example of combining sport and utility in a stylish package. Audi shouldn't abandon their tradition of producing fast and fun Avants for SUV, even if latter has better gross margin and volume, on Stateside.


----------



## mercury26 (Aug 20, 2004)

Agreed on your points, the Avant is a key piece to the Audi identity and they are killing (so to speak) in the US.
For reference, the BMW diesel will NOT be offered with manual transmission but auto only. In addition, the only way to get a BMW diesel and AWD is purchase a X5. The diesel in the 3 series will be coupled only to RWD, at least the initial releases. BUT it looks like the diesel engine will have an oil level dipstick (can't say that for any other engine in the BMW line-up).
VW is also missing the boat by not offering the DSG in the Passat series. You can get it in Europe but not the US. The Audi and VW guys need to get their head out of their a**.
Maybe it will make my S4 Avant w/ 6MT a collector's item.
Cheers,
Chuck


_Modified by djsaint at 10:37 AM 3-12-2008_


----------



## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (djsaint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *djsaint* »_
Maybe it will make my S4 Avant w/ 6MT a collector's item.


Unfortunately when it came time to sell, my B6 S4 Avant 6M was definitely not a collectors item.
I love, love, love wagons as much as anyone here. But at the same time I'm a realist. I understand that it costs over $5million to safety & emission certify every new car that comes to the US. I also realize that contrary to what I and a few other enthusiasts want, selling a few hundred high performance wagons a year does not justify this expense. Blame it on the unrealistic expectations of stockholders, the tangle of regulations that new cars must meet, and the fact that 98% of American consumers treat cars as appliances but the fact is if it can't be done for a profit it ain't getting done. And that fact does not apply only to Audi, or even only to the car business. 


_Modified by bcze1 at 12:15 PM 3-12-2008_


----------



## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: (djsaint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *djsaint* »_Agreed on your points, the Avant is a key piece to the Audi identity and they are killing (so to speak) in the US.
For reference, the BMW diesel will NOT be offered with manual transmission but auto only. In addition, the only way to get a BMW diesel and AWD is purchase a X5. The diesel in the 3 series will be coupled only to RWD, at least the initial releases. BUT it looks like the diesel engine will have an oil level dipstick (can't say that for any other engine in the BMW line-up).
VW is also missing the boat by not offering the DSG in the Passat series. You can get it in Europe but not the US. The Audi and VW guys need to get their head out of their a**.
Maybe it will make my S4 Avant w/ 6MT a collector's item.
Cheers,
Chuck

_Modified by djsaint at 10:37 AM 3-12-2008_

I understand that 335d will only be automatic. But for the fact remains that every other 3 series and 5 series in the US is available with manual. You may have to order one as sold order but you can get it. One of my friend just ordered a 535xi wagon with 6 speed manual... He is replacing his allroad 2.7TT. It's actually what prompted me to make this post... My friend was a rabid Audi fan and the person that got me interested in Audi in the first place when we were in high school. He is throwing in the towels because Audi doesn't sell the car he wants in the US.


----------



## mercury26 (Aug 20, 2004)

*Re: (bzcat)*

Understood, wish BMW would put an oil level dipstick on their engines. It is a huge turn-off for me, once your outside the warranty an engine problem due to oil level is on your dime. BMW is trying to keep people in new (in warranty) cars. If that is a business practice you choose to support, then that is a personal decision.
Cheers,
Chuck


----------



## Bergelvis (Mar 6, 2006)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (bzcat)*

I guess us high performance wagon lovers will have to buy Subarus. My brother, who makes big $ and has only bought VW or Audi is now talking Subaru!!! Ah... nothing like a soul less piece of Japanese crap with uncomfortable seats, cheesy interiors, and uninspired handling to get you going.
I'm just a poverty stricken working man who loves the depreciation on German cars, so I'll be in used Avants and Allroads for at least the next decade.


----------



## A4Jetta (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (Bergelvis)*

Even Subaru is dropping Legacy GT wagon for 09.


----------



## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (A4Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A4Jetta* »_Even Subaru is dropping Legacy GT wagon for 09.

They dropped it long before that, mid-'07 I think. I searched for one last March and there wasn't one within 1,000 miles of Colorado which is Subaru's best market in the US. You can still get the Legacy XT wagon which has the same engine but none of the sport.


----------



## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (Bergelvis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bergelvis* »_I guess us high performance wagon lovers will have to buy Subarus. My brother, who makes big $ and has only bought VW or Audi is now talking Subaru!!! Ah... nothing like a soul less piece of Japanese crap with uncomfortable seats, cheesy interiors, and uninspired handling to get you going.


The current Legacy is much better than you think. It's a very decent car and not nearly as soul less as its Japanese brothers. But as stated above, the performance Legacy is a thing of the past as well. You're bother will be stuck with WRX & STi's which are much more of a hatchback than wagon.


----------



## A4Jetta (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_
They dropped it long before that, mid-'07 I think. I searched for one last March and there wasn't one within 1,000 miles of Colorado which is Subaru's best market in the US. You can still get the Legacy XT wagon which has the same engine but none of the sport.

At least Canadian market will sell LGT wagon till the middle of 08 until all the allocations sold.


----------



## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

So the order guide for the B8 A4 came out and looks like that Audi decided to part with manual transmission across the board. I can't say I'm surprised but definitely disappointed. This further reinforces my believe that Audi is taking the old timers for granted and our input and voices are just ignored.


----------



## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (bzcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bzcat* »_So the order guide for the B8 A4 came out and looks like that Audi decided to part with manual transmission across the board. I can't say I'm surprised but definitely disappointed. This further reinforces my believe that Audi is taking the old timers for granted and our input and voices are just ignored. 

Give them till MY '10. It was already well known the A4 would debut sans manual. I'm willing to bet it will be late availability on some models.


----------



## nynoah75 (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: (bcze1)*

I agree with the first poster. I drive an Audi because I can get an Avant, that is AWD, sporty, I can put ALL MY STUFF IN IT, its fast, stylish and I can go on and on. Point of the matter. I once I got use to an Avant, that is all that I want, I can not see myself EVER driving a sedan. Sedans to me are for old people who do not lead an active lifestyle. I snowboard, I have a dog, I have things I like to load in the car. If they stop making stick shift avants.............I am switching to another car. And I am a LONG TIME VW Audi person. Don't make me shift to a Subie because the bean counters destroyed the soul of Audi.
Be smart. Make a 2.0 TDI A4 Avant, S4 Avant or A4 2.0T avant. Other wise me and I am sure hundreds like me will be forced to buy something else. 
P.S. I work on Audis for a living. I don't want to jump ship. But I can not see any reason for me to buy a car I do not want!


----------



## witzeroo (May 25, 2001)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (bzcat)*

The issues you describe so eloquently are not confined to Audi. As a former SAAB guy, I hear ya re "contrarian" angle too.
With the current generation Passat, VW has "gone Buick."
No more multilink A4/A6-esque front suspension. (Heck, no more multilink trunk hinge either.) No more longitudinal engine, ergo no more Torsen 4motion. And no more 4motion unless you bump to the 3.6 engine.
But you can have a cool key and an umbrella holder.
And don't even get me started on how VWoA treats its general customers, let alone its (former) fan base.


----------



## 2035cc16v (May 18, 2000)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (witzeroo)*

Unfortunately car manufacturers build what sells, not what doesnt.
the vast buying populace of america (a tiny fragment of audis sales btw) want an auto. to get them audi sells the auto.
im not a fan of the idea either, but i dont drive new cars for other reasons anyway so it doesnt affect me all that much.


----------



## A4Jetta (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (witzeroo)*

The reason Passat has to seperate from the A4, platform wise, is to further differentiate Audi to VW. Because B5.5 Passat 1.8T 4Motion didn't sold in huge volume, its understandable that VWoA decided to drop 4Motion in 4-cylinder form while only offering it on a V6.


----------



## witzeroo (May 25, 2001)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (A4Jetta)*

My theory is that 
1) Passat owners were not willing to put up with replacing multi-link control arms -- moving in the Accord / Camry direction with Mac struts. (Note that VW has done a crap job of recalling early-wear control arms, vouching ONLY for the lowers.)
2) Transverse engine yields "packaging" and space improvements.
3) Don't know about the sales volumes, but 2.0T is more powerful than 1.8T, so 4Motion might make a better pairing. In B5 and B5.5, 2.8 wasn't much more expensive than 1.8T, so it was a natural to step up in engine if you had the bucks for 4motion.
4) Drop in $-euro exchange rate has forced VW to "decontent" the Passat of MEANINGFUL content, while charging MORE for full content.
Cheers.


----------



## A4Jetta (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Audi turning the corner or turning its back? (witzeroo)*

Even if Passat runs on MacPherson, it remains a capable family car with sporing intentions. The same goes for Accord, with its latest "full-size" iteration, remains a capable handling car given its size and weight.
V6 4Motion wasn't a huge premium over equivalent V6 in B5/5.5 form, so it makes AWD V6 a good deal. But 1.8T 4Motion had to compete with Legacy for the same price, possibly for less contents.
Current Passat is a great buy in 2.0T form, especailly base trim with leatherette and hub caps. Its even a good buy with leather seats and alloy wheels, just getting pricey with auto climate control's Premium Pkg. 3.6 V6 4Motion is expensive. But when you factor in the whole packaging, while comparing to its Japanese rivals like G35X/XS, TL/TL-S and ES350. It makes the Passat V6 a tempting buy.


----------

