# High Compression 2.5L



## 60volkswagen (Oct 23, 2011)

Ive seen the JE High Compression kit for the 2.5 out there, but i cant find anyone thats done it? Is it worth the hassle, or is Turbo the way to go?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

just depends what your goals are.

a turbo kit is definitely a lot easier. an all motor build is so respectable but be ready to get a million wow that's expensive for no gain comments. over square engines don't like to make power all motor when they're only 2.5L economy models lol.

the high compression pistons are also not really for pump gas applications. it may be doable but i too have not seen anyone do it yet on 93 octane.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

11:1 would be fine for 93 oct. hell, maybe even 12...

the issue of doing an All motor high comp build is software. Solve that, and then buy parts.

for the record, i tried to do a 12:1 build... no one was really excited to work with me.

my plans were:
12:1 with overbore
meth
port and polish
oversized valvetrain
headers
intake mani
custom exhaust
custom and balanced pulleys
cams work.

and like i said, quite obviously, the key for the whole thing was software.

which is why imma go turbo... eventually.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

If you want to do something fun, get away from the OBD2 cars. As thygreyt stated, its all about the tune.

Well guess what, megasquirt and a 16v and you can be your own tuner. MS is actually very affordable standalone and 16v motors are a dime a dozen, although starting to dry up. I actually am building my third 16v currently which is going to be all motor. This is my second build with standalone and it is AWESOME!!!!! I can't afford the $5,000 standalone for a vr6 or 2.5 but megasquirt is more than capable of running the old 16v and a fraction of the cost. Heck I even soldered my own ECM together with a DIY online. ITS A BLAST.

My mk2 i'm dropping it in only weighs ~1800lbs and my goal is about 150WHP, before the 200 shot  (selling my Scirocco exhaust mani if u need one for a swap)

Was actually out in the garage tearing it down today. Sry I didn't get measurements on the SRI yet kevin because I got a phone call right after, my shepherd broke a toe today while with the wife :banghead:



Stupid dog broke his toe, then I had to rip this out with pliers (vet told me to) OMG i about cried instead of the dog. He was good boy and didn't bite me, to the my paranoid vet's amazement. He all better now, healing, not limping and bleeding everywhere! Fortunately no nerve damage xrays checked out woot woot. Thought this toe was going to cost me my engine rebuild this winter  Luckily it only cost me a euro bumper :thumbup: Big :thumbup::thumbup: for vets that love VW's.




Haha.

Anyway, no all motor 4 valve runs 12:1 on pump gas that I've seen but who knows, it is all about the tune after all.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> for the record, i tried to do a 12:1 build... no one was really excited to work with me.
> 
> my plans were:
> 12:1 with overbore
> ...


I'd love to go this route. I know, expensive and software etc etc... but I love all motor. I've done the turbo VR6 and custom software. Now I'm all about 2.5L and no turbo.




tchilds said:


> Stupid dog broke his toe, then I had to rip this out with pliers (vet told me to) OMG i about cried instead of the dog.


OUCH!! Poor pup. This made me wince. I feel your pain.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lol, for the 12:1 i was ging to do 93+meth

but 11.5:1 is very doable.

plan b for high comp is e85...


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

If you guys want to go all motor just forget the cylinder head work on the 2.5, build the bottom end, and spray the bish. When cams come out then go for head work. Its kinda pointless to blow thousands on head work w/out cams at this point. Hmmm $3,000 in head work w/no cams = what maybe 10hp on this motor? Cams also aren't going to do much in a motor that simply lacks any room. The 2.5 lacks room for hot ass cams, any significant overbore, and I have no clue what crank, piston, and rod setup will stroke it at this point?

It sounds like a huge investment for a good 40hp to me.

INA would know. INA did some sick nasty work on one of my 1.8 cylinder heads. I'm porting and polishing this one myself w/my friends die and grinder set. Can't wait to see how this goes but he's been building prostock for longer than I've known how to drive so it should go well.

If you want to know about all motor and what needs to be done, talk to INA. Isaam does INSANE head work that is in my opinion some of the best work I've seen in the states. My machinist friend (building cylinder head for 30 years) was blown away by his work. It is absolutely top notch.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

tchilds said:


> ... some of the best work I've seen in the states.


Pretty sure INA is Canadian, based in Ottawa.


I'm not really sure why people can't build a motor the way they want to just because its fun, and its fun to be different. Sure numbers are great, but doing things the way you want to is even better.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Agreed it is your money so do what you want. I just don't think many people want to work for nothing is all. Canadian or whatever, his work is best work I've seen around hands down for vw 4 valves. He will tell you what to do with a cylinder head and not waste your time or overcharge.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

tchilds said:


> INA would know.
> 
> If you want to know about all motor and what needs to be done, talk to INA. Isaam does INSANE head work that is in my opinion some of the best work I've seen.... It is absolutely top notch.





DerekH said:


> Pretty sure INA is Canadian, based in Ottawa.





tchilds said:


> Canadian or whatever, his work is best work I've seen around hands down for vw 4 valves. He will tell you what to do with a cylinder head and not waste your time or overcharge.


Issam and the whole INA team, KNOW the 2.5 like few others. while he hasnt been very public on the builds he has helped made, his work has been essential, and the builds have been monumental... such as Andre's (audi4u), just to name one.

if you guys have any questions, ask him!  thats why i only buy all and any of my stuff from him.

and on top of it all, he "coaches" me through the purchase so that i can get the best stuff that suits my build needs.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

tchilds said:


> Isaam does INSANE head work that is in my opinion some of the best work I've seen in the states. My machinist friend (building cylinder head for 30 years) was blown away by his work. It is absolutely top notch.


I will most likely do the head (even if it only buys 10hp). It's not a money thing, it's just because it is fun messing with this stuff. But for sure I'll call INA. Thanks for the advice.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Go for it. Can't wait to see the results. I would seriously wait for cams though. They're probably going to be about $2,000 when the first set comes out FYI. Not really sure if it will be worth it since there ain't room for super hot cams. There is a lot they can still change though.

I only get about 20hp outta my 16v cylinder head w/port polish cams and 3 angle valve job on stand alone management. But its 20hp across the ENTIRE power band. So we should see some pretty good gains if you go through INA for this project.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

tchilds said:


> Go for it. Can't wait to see the results. I would seriously wait for cams though. They're probably going to be about $2,000 when the first set comes out FYI. Not really sure if it will be worth it since there ain't room for super hot cams. There is a lot they can still change though.
> 
> I only get about 20hp outta my 16v cylinder head w/port polish cams and 3 angle valve job on stand alone management. But its 20hp across the ENTIRE power band. So we should see some pretty good gains if you go through INA for this project.


Agree about the cams. I really hope something comes along soon for the 2.5L and I'm in for sure if something does. Even at a premium price. Even mild gains would be great and if those are across the entire power band then even better.

And to be clear about my expectations...I am under no illusion that an all motor build will get big numbers except the price. But I like NA cars for many reasons.  I have an R32 with turbo and it puts down big numbers, but it can be a monster to drive. This time around I wanted to keep it a daily driver.


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## firecan65 (Oct 24, 2011)

> "Originally Posted by thygreyt
> for the record, i tried to do a 12:1 build... no one was really excited to work with me.
> 
> my plans were:
> ...


thegreyt,

I was thinking of hanging up the Rabbit next winter and doing pretty much the same build except for the methanol and cams (since no one will make them anyway). I was looking at asking C2 for the software. Did you try them and have no luck at all? What were the acute reasons most of the tuners turned you down on?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

imma stay quiet and not word things wrong cause it would cause issues.

all i can say is this: if YOU want to do such project, by all means, go ahead!

btw, the only way to get 12:1 is with custom pistons...


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## firecan65 (Oct 24, 2011)

I understand. Yeah, I would just be going for 11:1 or 11.5:1 pistons, whatever the off the shelf JE ones are.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

firecan65 said:


> I understand. Yeah, I would just be going for 11:1 or 11.5:1 pistons, whatever the off the shelf JE ones are.


it WONT be cheap... and i mean, expect to pay about 6-10k for parts and tuning.

isntall will be a lil more. most shops will charge 1500 to 2k to install, overbore, hone and balance the new piston and rod combo

edit: you want to do meth or e85 if you do higher compression.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

ouchhhh poor doggyyy TCHILD. I have a cat, and i was in pain when she came out of vet one time due to "hairball" 

MKII chassis in general are much "tuner-friendly". That is because it's been out longer than 2.5L, and so many owners didn't want to fork out goula amount of money to tune their cars. However, even though the 5 cylinders were out in the 80s' on the Audi's, no one seemed to care about them or tune them. 

I would be a happy camper to get a motor swap: get an MKV GOLF, and drop that MKII motor poppy in there, and add a turbo- voila, a recipe for success.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

my dream swap is a type 1 beetle with a 2.5T... obviosly some "racing" seats, full cage, and a lot more goodies... 

i dunno. it would be a VERY lightweight, fun RWD car to have.. and to build.


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## firecan65 (Oct 24, 2011)

Definitely gonna be pricey. We'll see what happens. "Should" be able to do the rebuild myself (it can't be more complicated than a Lyc. TIGO-541) with the factory manuals. Already have the Eurojet intake manifold and header coated and ready to party. The cylinder head and block machine work should be close to 5-6k with another 1k for new bearings and gaskets I imagine. Speaking of which, do the Bentley manuals detail the rebuild, and do they have an IPC?


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## firecan65 (Oct 24, 2011)

Although I'm sure I am going to be eating 50% of my words on cost when the time comes... :facepalm:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

thygreyt said:


> my dream swap is a type 1 beetle with a 2.5T... obviosly some "racing" seats, full cage, and a lot more goodies...
> 
> i dunno. it would be a VERY lightweight, fun RWD car to have.. and to build.


and they float too!!! no bull, was an old marketing campaign for the beetle actually that let people know just how well these cars floated!

you going to get buttraped by anyone seeing you take an aircooled motor out of a beetle that still has all the original floor pans w/match'n numbers though (ie street legal).

My dunebuggy project actually got vandalized by some drunk hillbillies locally and I'm just too lazy to clean up the mess and get started on my beetle again. beetles make the best street legal dune buggies but the motor is in my friend's ghia so i dunno, make an offer :thumbup:

and you are right they are very light weight. my friend's superbeetle runs 13.5 in the quarter w/original 90hp engine... and a few mods

haha ok i won't sell my beetle here, hoooraaaahhh go all motor. you will have a ton of fun w/it and when u get bored just swap it and put your MKV back to stock w/shiny new motor :thumbup:



people act like money spent is gone forever but you get about half of it back guys. the other half is the part you drive! i think that's a pretty good value. if you do something like what i do, just kinda swap one motor to the next as you buy new VW's, you never really lose any of the $$$ you spend. as soon as it goes to a new owner though u get like half your investment back to go toward a new project so yeah, don't fret about the cash. the guys doing the work for us are barely able to afford it too. so there you go, its a struggle on both ends can't get any more fair than that imo.

*Check out the 24v all motor build thread in the 2.8 section, i think he swapped it into a scirocco and makes sub 11 second times now* Hard to miss it, as its pretty much the only one.


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## Grzegorzp (May 10, 2020)

Any news from the Project? 
Is there any alternatives to increase CR for 11:1 or more than custom pistons? Maby pistons from some other engine would fit? Is there any strocker possible?


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