# For all you CAI haters out there. (Big Pics Warning)



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

For everyone that swears that a CAI is not worth while on our cars and that the stock airbox can supply enough air needed, I did a test. I have the EVO CAI and I wanted to try out my modfied airbox. I shaved the top of the box, cleared the bottom of it, added a 3.5" expensive hose to the box from the front of the car, and added an ITG. Well guess what, it pounded the EVO into the ground like a fence stake. No more EVO for me. I am only going to show the airmass but the hp is higher as well, by 3 - 5 hp over the EVO from a block 120. 
Stock Box w/ stock filter, smoothed inners = 172 g/s
Stock Box w/ stock filter, smoothed inners, ram hose = 177 g/s
EVO CAI = 178 g/s
Stock Box w/ ITG, smoothed inners, ram hose = 184 g/s
Read this http://www.autospeed.com/A_0629/page1.html
It was 9vw23yrs (Jorge) and TTSchwing (Steve) that got me to do this and the article written above. I didn't have the tools to go Steve's route, so I made due with what I had.
Stock Box Top








Smoothed Stock Box, used dremel, sand paper, and love








Hose with to much space








Hose with filled in edges using insulation tape, the wire was removed so entrance was smoother later.








Isulation tape from home Depot








Bottom box with edges removed, water gate cut, and engine intake sealed








Front mount hose








Another front mount hose








Notice the wire holding it down under the bumper, gives a smoother entrance, bent horn up for more clearance








Top shot of the godzilla hose










[Modified by Kode, 4:40 PM 1-16-2003]


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## Jetta_1.8Tip (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*








Wow!!
Someone should buy stock boxes from VW, Mod them and resell as a kit like this!!
Hint, Hint


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## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

sweet


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## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jetta_1.8Tip)*

Nice work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## big-jona (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Cool
How did you route the air pipe to the lower grill without crushing it?
(did you take of the back of the headlight or cut it or something?)
Cheers,
Jon


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Jorge T airbox mod is Numero Uno! The trademarked Yellow Jacket 3-1/2" duct hose is unbeatable. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (TRBNIUM)*

It takes some time and loving, but the end result is amazing. The tubing is crucial as well, you need to call warehouses and find expensive air duct tubing that will be in the range of $5 a foot, you can even try for a hose labeled as a water pump suction hose. That hose is extremely smooth compared to majority of hoses, even at the bends.
Someone should definately produce a aftermarket stock airbox after seeing the result here. This cost a grand total of $75 dollars, that is the ITG, hose, and isulation tape to make it solid.


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (big-jona)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Cool
How did you route the air pipe to the lower grill without crushing it?
(did you take of the back of the headlight or cut it or something?)
Cheers,
Jon[HR][/HR]​The tube fit through there with no problem, remember that I had a EVO CAI on there before so I had already removed all the plastic and I think I even moved the light switch thing when I installed the EVO. Basically follow the regular CAI instal instructions to get it to clear in there, no pinches anywhere.
quote:[HR][/HR]Jorge T airbox mod is Numero Uno! The trademarked Yellow Jacket 3-1/2" duct hose is unbeatable. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​Man you and Mike know it!!, I just got lucky since I have known Jorge longer than all of you







I am so glad that 9vw23yrs made me do this, just like old times right Jorge? TTSchwing also gave me the inspiration to spend more time on it then I would have normally, have you guys seen his carbon box, DAMN.


[Modified by Kode, 4:51 PM 1-16-2003]


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## flanders (Apr 5, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

cripes.
very nice, very nice indeed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

that is a good idea but in my neck of the _woods_ id be scared a squirrel will make his way up in there and go for a nice ride someday.maybe a grille on the front cure this issue?







hmm ill have to think about this now....


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (got_boost)*

I run my cover over it, but at the track take it off. That poor squirrel, he would be so pissed!


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## Simans82 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jetta_1.8Tip)*

Nice. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Simans82)*








LOL busted







Thank for the kind words, I'm glad you posted it. I do not have the patience/time to do a nice write up. I did all my testing on stage 3 so I did not have nothing else to compare too.
BTW David and I did the same a while back on R/C cars competing at a national level.


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## MRP2001GTi (Oct 6, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there.*

Cool deal even though for some reason here at work I can not see the pics. Looks like the ITG filter alone pushed your numbers beyond the EVO. Makes you wonder what a ITG type cone on the end of the EVO would do.


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## spoolin (Jan 3, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (MRP2001GTi)*

the only reason I wont do that, is because It is almost like a snow plow!







if it rains or what ever else, it might pick it up like a vacume.
keep an Eye on it and let us all know!
good write up W/pics http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

which gear did you do the testing at? Would you expect to see more "ram" effect at higher gears?
And the numbers dont lie, good job. Looks like an EVO intake will probably be up for sale soon huh?


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## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (spoolin)*

I have the same concern. I plan to do this mod but to leave the section for when water gets sucked up. I'm sure that extra filter area does make a difference in performance though. I'm just not willing to take that risk.


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## Jman5000 (Nov 8, 1999)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (new 337)*

quote:[HR][/HR]which gear did you do the testing at? Would you expect to see more "ram" effect at higher gears?[HR][/HR]​You'll create sufficient velocities to induce true pressurized intake at about 190mph...before that, the air is just cooler than underhood.
quote:[HR][/HR]
And the numbers dont lie, good job. Looks like an EVO intake will probably be up for sale soon huh?







[HR][/HR]​I know it's almost cliche, and everyone thinks it's the end-all THING...but any thoughts on dyno runs to see if the block 120 data is backed up by a the "other" big test?


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## too fast (Mar 26, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jman5000)*

nice work


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## ElectricCo (Jul 19, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (too fast)*

i have the same done on my jetta. sounds great with the hyperboost DV http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and if you look in your airbox, there is a small hole on the bottom where water and moisture drains out. i have driven in rain storms and mild flooding. i was paranoid about sucking in water, but i checked the airbox and filter, and not a drop of water was to be found on the top side of the ITG filter.


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## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jman5000)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I know it's almost cliche, and everyone thinks it's the end-all THING...but any thoughts on dyno runs to see if the block 120 data is backed up by a the "other" big test?
[HR][/HR]​I wasnt using the 3-5hp from the block 120 as a valid data point. I was using his maf readings. I am using the data from the MAF readings, where it showed he gained 10g/s airflow.


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## Jetta_1.8Tip (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Someone should definately produce a aftermarket stock airbox after seeing the result here. This cost a grand total of $75 dollars, that is the ITG, hose, and isulation tape to make it solid.[HR][/HR]​OK, so any volunteers to produce a kit like this? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jman5000)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You'll create sufficient velocities to induce true pressurized intake at about 190mph...before that, the air is just cooler than underhood.[HR][/HR]​What makes you say that? Are you talking about in general or for this particular application?
quote:[HR][/HR]I know it's almost cliche, and everyone thinks it's the end-all THING...but any thoughts on dyno runs to see if the block 120 data is backed up by a the "other" big test?
[HR][/HR]​How can he accurately duplicate the effect of the extra incoming air with a stationary car on a dyno? We all know a fan isn't good enough.


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (TRBNIUM)*

jman5000 - well Julian Edgar used a Manometer in the article provided to prove the 190mph theory wrong. I also used g/s MAF measurements as well as hp and the numbers shown above are my airmass g/s numbers to show that more are is coming through, not hp. I just stated that my hp numbers went up as well with the block 120's.
I believe that I will be going to a dyno on Saturday in Houston, but like someone said, a 20mph fan isn't going to do much for helping get rid of negative boost.
I am not worried about sucking up small animals or water. I have owned several cars that had scoops about 5 inches off the ground and never had an issue. Like stated above as well, there is a hole in the bottom of your airbox to drain water, if you are overly paranoid like many here, then you can punch a hole at the bottom of your hose intake to allow any water that may get there to drain (ex: high pressure car wash).
All my tests were done in 3rd and 2nd gear, the 2nd was usually 1 - 2 g/s higher due to the extra 2 psi at 6500 rpm you get in second over 3rd in my car. The numbers up above are 3rd gear numbers to keep them all accurate and done on the same day under the same elements.
9vw23yrs was always the brain in the back of the hobby shop coming up with all the tricks and learning the faults, then I would just use them to win big races


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## Silver_1.8T (Apr 4, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

What if someone routed there EVO cai through the drovers side headlight and took some readings and found them to be 187 g/s? Would everyone then drive around with there headlight outs because of this??
Your talking about a RAM AIR modification. Of course its going to yield higher or next to #'s of a simple CAI design. 
Now, figure out a way to connect a hose from your front bumper, and attach it to the front side of the EVO intake and take some readings. The forced air should raise the 178 g/s you so somewhere in the neighborhood of the 184 g/s you found with the stock box.
Theres diffrent ways of going around it. Someone people want a clean look and decide to go with a CAI. Others are cheap, or....expiremental, and will hack up thee factorys items looking to improve something for a small dollar amount. I guess, to each there own......
Drew


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## spoolin (Jan 3, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Silver_1.8T)*

To each his own


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Silver_1.8T)*

Ok I see your logic in this, but there is no way to get the EVO to recieve the pressure unless it is in a sealed box of some sorts (like TTSchwing has done). Routing a hose to the front of the filter is not going to make it pressurized. The CAI only takes in air upon request from the turbo and the hose would be loosing plenty of air on the sides. Am I not picturing what you said correctly?
Yes I know I am talking about a Ram Intake, that is why it says w/ ram hose, but the boxed is also smoothed to increase airflow speeds through the box as well. If I could do it over again I would purchase a BMC or a Viper since it is a pressurized box design, but like you stated I am being experimental and I still think having the trumpet in the air box helps straighten airflow for the MAF. On top of that I was getting kind of tired of hearing Darth Vadar breathing all the time and sneezing when I let off the gas.


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## Jman5000 (Nov 8, 1999)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

You have a lot of valid points, and yes, dyno-ing would show something different because of the limited speeds of the fans.
What I was alluding to was maybe some proportional figures. The hose could be "disengaged" fairly easily...I think. You make some pulls
Then you install your tweaks completely and make some more pulls.
Maybe the block 120hp figures would not be the same, but maybe the differences between modded/unmodded would start to "be in line" with the data you've gathered already from the rolling tests.
Then, you'd have additional information to draw conclusions from.


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jman5000)*

It's simple guys, nothing beats this uber mod, best performance for less than $45. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jman5000)*

I wish I had the time to do that, I will be going to the dyno on saturday, but unfortunately the intake will not shine on a dyno like I just posted on another thread in your response to my post there. Due to the wind speeds not going in excess of a 20 - 30 mph fan. So I will not see the gains in hp uptop on a real dyno. That is why I went with the rolling tests.
I completely see your point, I just don't think I will be able to test that suffieciently to make everyone happy. I guess we will have to go with the paper dyno and the sub-par testing for people to make up their minds. On paper this works better and it seems to work better as far as rolling starts. On the actual dyno proof, the CAI puts out better numbers. I like the box over the CAI and I am going to stick with it. Unfortunately the CAI vs. ModBox will never be proven due to the issue of wind speed, so it will have to be either a vag test or on paper mod. Kinda sucks because I am now a firm believer in the box, but can't prove it 100%


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## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

how thick is the piping for the EVO?


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (roly)*

piping for the EVO is 3"


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## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

What block did you log for the airflow? Are the #s you reported the peaks for each? I have the Chris86 mod with ITG filter and want to try it on mine for the sake of comparison. I realize that it's two different cars but it'll be interesting nonetheless.


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## Mimi03GTI (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Wow...I bet the torque is even much higher with the airbox too. That's what I noticed when I went from P-flo to cai, less torque on dyno and seat of the pants.


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## veritas137 (Jul 24, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Didn't see it mentioned so I will. Another benefit of this over any of the other filter on a stick methods is that if they go underwater, water is going in your engine. If the end of this hose goes underwater, the flap in the airbox opens and you save your engine. I knew VW engineers got paid the big bux for a reason.


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## Cypher2k (Nov 23, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (mimikos)*

If I can make a suggestion:
Get some aluminum tape used on heating ducts and apply it to the exterior of the airbox. It will help reflect away heat and keep it cool.
When I sell the car ill be making a similar upgrade to it as I already ripped out the stock duct fittings..










[Modified by Cypher2k, 5:10 PM 1-16-2003]


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## K04GTi (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Cypher2k)*

You can but this kit for NB's at:
http://www.bugmod.com/ram_air.htm
I was thinking of using this and adding a 3inch air bypass valve from evoms.


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Gatorfreak)*

Gator, I log 003 for the airmass, you can also do 002. I so the 003 because I like to also see if the car is getting good timing and if the TB is being shut. If you do the 002 though you can get a rough estimate of your a/f ratio by using an equation on the rpm and injector cycle. My numbers that I am giving are the peek numbers, the higher the # got the better the curve got as well, so it wasn't just a highend thing.
There is for sure more torque and that is the easiest to feel, HP up top feels the same as the EVO, but for me, it takes a lot more then 1 or 2 hp up top to feel in the buttdyno. The numbers show that the torque is close to the same peek with the box but it is holding it slightly longer then the EVO.


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (K04GTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You can but this kit for NB's at:
http://www.bugmod.com/ram_air.htm
I was thinking of using this and adding a 3inch air bypass valve from evoms.[HR][/HR]​Hell ya, I have never seen that. Interesting how they can shape the hose to fit in tight spots. The hose I got is 3.5" and only only place that the ID changes shape is at the entry to the airbox, it has a very slight oval size.
I absolutley love their blinker mod for the beetle. I have also seen a ram kit some where but I think it was for a VR6, either way, the scoop for that unit would be far superior then just sticking the hose up front like I did. 9vw23yrs has a scoop method to grab more surface area and to squeeze into the hole. I will be fabricating a scoop in the future.


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## blubuga (Jun 13, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Do you think most of the gains came for the ram air ducting or from the removal of the ribs in the air box? Any ideas why the factory has those ribs there in the first place?
On the Beetles there is a piece commonly refered to as the snowbox. I don't know if other cars have it as well or not. This snow box is located between the wheel liner and the fender. Removing this ducting and adding the 3" ducting made a nice seat of the pants difference on my car. I didn't do the Ram blinker part.


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (blubuga)*

Very good questions that I don't have the answers to. The rib removal is a very minimal mod but took the most time. The hose is the key to making this a powerful system. I really don't know why they placed the ribs in the first place. Maybe strength but I can't imagine why they would need to have strength there either.
Our GTI's and Jetta's have a baffle that is routed to the front grill where the air is taken. Unfortunately the opening in the front by the grill is not that large and the added turns that the air has to go through is not helpful either.


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

The ribs are there to give the box strength. You don't want to press too hard when its hot, it may just cave in.


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## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

I have the stock box, with the OEM filter, no divider, and no snorkel and I have logged over 190 g/s. My OEM filter has been in the car for about 10K. Do some more logs in 3rd and see if your mass air readings go up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (SlvrBllt)*

Wow, would you mind sending me your log files?
I have been logging 003 with everything I do. It sounds to me like you have a bad MAF, a k04's get the 190 - 200 range and I assume you still have the stock k03-sport. I also have two MAF's that I have tested with. You should log a 002 and do a rough a/f ratio and maybe pull a plug, I bet you are running very rich because I don't see how a k03 can physically pull in that much air.


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## N10S (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (9VW23yrs)*

I haven't really looked too closely at the stock air box but how easy would it be to install a bell-mouth inlet on the clean side of the filter where the air heads towards the MAF? The reason I ask, is that its an old turbo-tuner trick to either machine or install bell-mouths on intakes, turbos, and even intercooler inlets to substantially increase air flow. The bell mouth acts as a velocity stack which really improves air flow. That is one of the true benefits of a cone type air filter over a panel filter.
The APR stage III kit uses this kind of bell mouth in the stock box, and I have always thought that the same technology/theory would work on any 1.8T. I would also be interested to see what would happen if you pulled the ram-air hose off and instead inserted a smoothe tube with a bell-mouth in the side of the air box? I bet combined with the smoothed and de-baffled airbox interior, and an ITG drop-in it would really scream. Just a thought? 
I did have a carbon fiber CAI on my MCoupe which used an ITG cone filter in the closed air-box and had a bell-mouthed tube taking in cold air......it was an awesome set-up. A little noisy, but not like a regular CAI.
Someone needs to build the same animal for the Mkiv 1.8t cars.


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (N10S)*

Our cars have the velocity stack, I just had it out while I was shaving. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## N10S (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Thanks for the confirmation.......guess I should have looked before posting eh?? Oh well, everyone is entitled to hit there head with there hand like Homer Simpson and say DOH!!! I hate being the idiot-boy, although I suppose it helps keep you humble! Good work, and good info by the way!!! 

Jeff







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Wow, would you mind sending me your log files?
I have been logging 003 with everything I do. It sounds to me like you have a bad MAF, a k04's get the 190 - 200 range and I assume you still have the stock k03-sport. I also have two MAF's that I have tested with. You should log a 002 and do a rough a/f ratio and maybe pull a plug, I bet you are running very rich because I don't see how a k03 can physically pull in that much air.[HR][/HR]​I logged those #'s on block 002. Keep in mind that was a peak number (most were in the 170-180 range), and if you dont have your VAG com set up right, you will get pathetic sampling rates. How do I calculate A/F ratios? I also have a cat back exhaust, so that might explain some of it. As soon as the old Acer laptop boots, I will send you the log files.








"Putting crack pipe down". Sorry dude I just got off the plane from a long business trip. I was looking at some block 120 logs, not block 002







My highest air mass reading was 174.83 g/s
Sorry for the screw up. Could you post how to calculate a/f ratios from block 002?
Here is my best log to date. g/s on the right. RPM on the left.
5000	167.7	23.46	160.11
5320	164.7	24.48	166.67
5560	160.9	25.16	171.61
5840	155.6	25.16	172.39
6120	150.4	24.82	174.83
5800	15	1.36	16.64




[Modified by SlvrBllt, 8:53 PM 1-16-2003]


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (SlvrBllt)*

It's all good and 174, is a very strong number for a stock everything, and I made a mistake 180 - 190 is k04 territory on our cars going through the stock MAF, I said 190 - 200, that would be a stock TT225.
follow this link on for the air fuel, http://home.earthlink.net/~cogent001/vw/ , there is another method as well but I don't know it.
Your car is running great as far as the vag says for a/f, last digits are your a/f
5000	167.7	23.46	160.11 24.00	97.75	0.08158	11.78
5320	164.7	24.48	166.67 22.56	108.53	0.07839	11.99
5560	160.9	25.16	171.61 21.58	116.57	0.07495	12.35
5840	155.6	25.16	172.39 20.55	122.45	0.07130	12.42
6120	150.4	24.82	174.83 19.61	126.58	0.06798	12.61
Here is one of mine with the EVO
5240	174.4	24.14	176.58 22.90	105.41	0.07960	12.70
5360	172.9	24.14	172.42 22.39	107.83	0.07779	12.41
5440	170.7	24.14	176.58 22.06	109.43	0.07663	12.71
5520	169.9	24.14	176.5 21.74	111.04	0.07550	12.70
5600	167.7	24.14	178.75 21.43	112.65	0.07441	12.87
5680	164.7	23.8	175.25 21.13	112.65	0.07334	12.62
5760	160.2	23.46	173.5 20.83	112.61	0.07231	12.50
5840	154.9	22.78	170.25 20.55	110.86	0.07130	12.27
5920	146.6	21.42	165.17 20.27	105.67	0.07032	11.90
6000	137.6	19.38	155.64 20.00	96.90	0.06718	11.58
6080	135.3	19.04	158.67 19.74	96.47	0.06598	11.87
6120	139.8	19.72	166.78 19.61	100.57	0.06798	12.03
6160	142.9	20.74	169.42 19.48	106.47	0.06753	12.22
6240	140.6	20.4	167.03 19.23	106.08	0.06665	12.05

N10S - that is great info, it would be dumb for you to go out and disassemble your airbox to make sure your post on vortex was 100%.


[Modified by Kode, 5:30 AM 1-17-2003]


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## Damir (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*

this is good stuff.


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*

That there looks like the pipe I got from bugmod.com.
Nice, cheap, effective.


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## CarfanaTTic (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

I took it out for testing and got another 10g/s.


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (CarfanaTTic)*

Really, I will have to test that, I just assumed it was helping.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Nice work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Didn't see it mentioned so I will. Another benefit of this over any of the other filter on a stick methods is that if they go underwater, water is going in your engine. *If the end of this hose goes underwater, the flap in the airbox opens and you save your engine*. I knew VW engineers got paid the big bux for a reason.







[HR][/HR]​That's if your airbox has a flap. Dubs destined to Warm Climate areas dont have the flap. The flap is not for there for the reason you mention. It is an intake air heater,; it is there for those days when the air outside is too damn cold and breathing air from next to the engine helps the car to warm up faster.


----------



## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (CarfanaTTic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I took it out for testing and got another 10g/s. [HR][/HR]​What is "it" that was removed to gain 10g/s? The filter?
Also, with reference to the flapper, I've heard both stories from a number of people. If it's just for bringing in warmer air when it's really cold, then I would definitely remove it, being in Florida.


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Gatorfreak)*

He is speaking about the velocity stack (trumpet) in the top section (clean air side) of the airbox.


----------



## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Gatorfreak)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I took it out for testing and got another 10g/s. 
What is "it" that was removed to gain 10g/s? The filter?
Also, with reference to the flapper, I've heard both stories from a number of people. If it's just for bringing in warmer air when it's really cold, then I would definitely remove it, being in Florida.[HR][/HR]​I originally thought that it was a warm up accelerator, but upon further inspection, the spring is not bi-metallic. Instead it is set to open at a certain vacuum level (WOT near redline). If you remove the center divider, it doesnt seem to open anymore. Personally I might route a piece of hose from the flapper to a cooler area so when it does open, it doesnt suck in hot air.


----------



## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (SlvrBllt)*

Opening at a certain vacuum level would seem to indicate that it's there should the main intake path get clogged. I saw a post recently where someone did a mod like this one and ran a 2nd tube from the flapper to the original intake location just under the hood.


----------



## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Gatorfreak)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Opening at a certain vacuum level would seem to indicate that it's there should the main intake path get clogged. I saw a post recently where someone did a mod like this one and ran a 2nd tube from the flapper to the original intake location just under the hood.[HR][/HR]​If you remember the dyno day we had during that blizzard hurricane, you might recally how LOUD the intake noise got right at the end of each pull. I am pretty sure thats what was happening.


----------



## veritas137 (Jul 24, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (SlvrBllt)*

What others ave said. I don't know why it wouldn't be on some cars, but it's not there for cold weather warmup. It's a simple spring that allows it to open in case the main airway gets blocked.


----------



## spoolin (Jan 3, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*


----------



## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (SlvrBllt)*

What about connecting the hose to one of these for our cars (pic is Mk III application)?


----------



## spoolin (Jan 3, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (TRBNIUM)*

thats nice lookin, where the one for the 4th gen's


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (TRBNIUM)*

That would work great, the only thing is that you are gaining more air because of surface area used to grab and move the air but the inlet maybe smaller then a 3" hose, that would be a restriction (maybe someone measure it, and maybe a source for mk4), and I am using a 3.5" so I will have to make my own scoop.


----------



## VDUBBINDizzy (Jul 23, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Not to mention the invitation for rain to go in there.


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (VDUBBINDizzy)*

Tested the airbox with and without the trumpet in 2nd and 3rd gear.
2nd Gear Peak W/Velocity Stack = 192 @ 6320
2nd Gear Peak Wout/Velocity Stack = 189 @ 6120
3rd Gear Peak W/Velocity Stack = 185 @ 5640
3rd Gear Peak Wout /Velocity Stack = 186 @ 5720
Even though the peak was not as high in 2nd, look at the curve it had though, it way makes up for it. The 3rd gear numbers are peaking extremely low on the rpm scale due to my car at 5700 pulling boost by 3 psi, down to 9 - 10 psi, unlike second it, stays at 12 until 6300 or so (that is why the 2nd gear #'s are higher).








For now I am going to run without the stack to see what it can do with more testing.


----------



## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (TRBNIUM)*

quote:[HR][/HR]What about connecting the hose to one of these for our cars (pic is Mk III application)?







[HR][/HR]​There is a speed shop in Daytona that sells a universal air scoop like that. They use them on circle track cars to force air into the cabin. Its a bigger inlet than that. There is a Rocco running around Daytona with one grafted into the fender feeding into the intake. I might look at one next weekend and see if I can make it fit the lower grill opening.


----------



## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Ok, I'll ask the stupid question. What is this "trumpet" or "velocity stack"?







As I recall, my airbox is two pieces (top and bottom) and I can't see running without either.


----------



## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Gatorfreak)*

It's connected to the MAF within the airbox (upper portion, filtered air), not a part of either half.


----------



## 828turbos (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jetta_1.8Tip)*

is it easy for water or other materials to get in there?


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (828turbos)*

Well of course it is, but first I have the stock grill to help from little kids getting caught in it, then there is a hole in the bottom of the air box for water to drain, and last but not least it takes seconds to open it up and clean the box if you sucked up a leaf (Right Jorge?







) 
Seriously, this fear of water and hydrolock really needs to just goto myth and die. The only cars that hydrolock are the people that want to hydrolock them on purpose, end of story.


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Yeah, I'm checking for big leafs tomorrow before I head out to the GTG


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (9VW23yrs)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Kode!!!
It seems like us Texas guys are dominating the airbox mod. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Been a member since 12/02. 
I may have to upgrade to a 3.5" hose after Saturday. Look forward into seeing how much your car puts out.
My wimpy 3" airduct hose..











[Modified by hungalicious, 8:48 PM 1-17-2003]


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

It is all Jorge's fault, he has done this to me for over 15 years. You guys are just starting to learn about it







The 3.5" is kinda overkill but hey, it is the yellow-jacket of death. I will be leaving for the GTG at 7:00am tommorow, I am hoping for a good hp dyno, APR 93 cars don't ever get much tq anyhow.


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

I just got my spare airbox yesterday. I'll probably spend the rest of the day Saturday smoothing out the fins and making it look super nice.


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

Sweet, I found one today that doesn't have the engine bay entrance. I may get that box for the bottom portion for more area in the box







Ok that is getting to carried away, I give up, shoot me.


----------



## Lucky_337 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

I've done this mod too. I'm not going into performance as people get upset too easily. In my case, I went from a stock box to the mod setup on my new ride. Took it out for a spin on a cool evening, popped the hood and checked the box, it was cool. That's what I wanted, and I haven't had any problems sucking things up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Went to the dyno today, numbers are in the sig. I was vaging as well and it hit 187 g/s for airmass on the best run.  Wish I had a leaf blower or something for it, would have been higher


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

176 g/s for me.


----------



## little p (Apr 29, 2000)

Would this stuff work for this mod?
I know JCWitney can sell some pretty gypsy crap but from time to time you can find some good stuff... Just wondering. 
http://jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=5636&BQ=jcw2


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (little p)*

By the description provided, it seems okay to me.


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (little p)*

Yeah! it should work fine, good price too! Take some pics showing the inside if you get some.


----------



## little p (Apr 29, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

That JCWitney hose is available in diameters from 1.5" to 6"...what is the texas approved size recommendation?
I think that I am going to give this stuff a shot....$10 isn't so bad


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (little p)*

Everything's bigger in Texas.







Majority of the guys are using 3.5".


----------



## boraattack (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: (hungalicious)*

just wondering if reducing the size of the air box would result in any increased pressure? any one a physics major?


----------



## jude (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (boraattack)*

I found this today, I know someone was asking if someone made them.http://www.fknorthamerica.com/pages/catalog/air_intakes.html.


----------



## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: (jude)*

Following prior post...
Here's the pic








Seems like a good idea, what about doing this to let more air get to the IC and/or brakes?


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (speedgator)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Seems like a good idea, what about doing this to let more air get to the IC and/or brakes?[HR][/HR]​The only thing is that the stock IC has a nice plastic scoop to direct the air to the IC. I would think that it would grab more air that way then through this little hole but I am not in Physics/Calculus classes yet.


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: (Kode)*

Great job on the shaving of the inners, and the nice hose setup. Definitely the cleanest custom install I've seen...

But what I don't get is I had a stockbox (not custom like yours) and I attained... 








Then I added my EVO CAI and ECS n75 and I got...

















[Modified by VW4life, 9:24 PM 1-20-2003]


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (VW4life)*

With the stock box were you running the stock baffle as well and a stock filter? 
I don't understand what is not to get if you were. You added probably 3 - 5 psi depending on your results with the H valve, which is easily worth 8 - 10 hp and a bunch of torque due to the much larger spike (already posted this in your thread). Then going from an extremely restrictive airbox and filter to a free flowing filter and a true 3" system, I can see why your results changed so much. The stock airbox is far from being good without a little work like a drop in and ram hose.


----------



## ChRiS A. (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

hey i really like ur idea. how long did it take you? can you hear a sound difference? email me back, if you dont mind i was interested in how you did it? [email protected] BUMP! ! ! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: (Kode)*

quote:[HR][/HR]With the stock box were you running the stock baffle as well and a stock filter? 
I don't understand what is not to get if you were. You added probably 3 - 5 psi depending on your results with the H valve, which is easily worth 8 - 10 hp and a bunch of torque due to the much larger spike (already posted this in your thread). Then going from an extremely restrictive airbox and filter to a free flowing filter and a true 3" system, I can see why your results changed so much. The stock airbox is far from being good without a little work like a drop in and ram hose.[HR][/HR]​I did you stock box & filter, and that's where I'm impressed. With the amount of work you did to that box you gained the efficiency of a CAI. Basically equivalent to our CAI (i know you had/have the same one). I was just showing the differences between my stock and non-stock #'s again, and seems like based on your data if i were to switch to yours it would keep the same results.


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (VW4life)*

Chris.a - All the instructions are on the page, also look for a thread called Aixbox Mod2 continued or something like that, he has a pic of the dremel piece that I used. It is still a silent box and it took me about 2.5 hours. I don't have time to email people more instructions, honestly if you can't grasp the process from the pics you shouldn't be doing it








vwlife - Well actually I hit 187 g/s airmass the other day in 3rd. I never broke past 179 with the EVO, so I would say it works better










[Modified by Kode, 2:45 PM 1-21-2003]


----------



## Mimi03GTI (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: (VW4life)*

I like the idea of having the stock box and not losing the torque like I did going to a CAI. With this mod you get the best of both worlds! I lost noticable torque when going from stock air box to CAI, but gained more more smooth power up on top. So this would be the way for people to go if they haven't done any type of intake upgrade yet. Great post! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: (mimikos)*

my question is... do you miss the sound/noise the EVO makes... what does the shaved box with an ITG sound like? 
anywhere near as loud as the EVO? 
not the sound is important... obviously Hp and torque is the objective... but i like how the EVO sounds and half of what i miss during winter is just that...


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (turbovw18)*

No I don't miss it at all, that was the reasoning for buying the EVO in the first place, but now I enjoy having people hearing the turbo when I am driving through the parking lots, that is more impressive then having to gun it and then let off the gas to hear something imho. It is completely silent now unless you try you hardest to hear it.


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (Kode)*

...when we were going to Hooters I could hear your DV loud and clear, as well as the turbo spool up behind me.


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (ChRiS A.)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=671868 for basic instructions. It's not that hard. You just need time and a steady hand.


----------



## wolfsburgSLC (May 8, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

Something to think about. GIAC's website says that with their chip you are not supposed to run anything other than a K&N in the stock box. I wanted to do an EVO/CAI, but after reading the website, I learned that you will run lean if you have a CAI because their chips are programmed for stock air ratios. I odn't know what to think anymore.


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

That is outside the cabin, inside with the darth vadar CAI, you can hardly hear the turbo.


----------



## feuerdog (Feb 11, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Silver_1.8T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]What if someone routed there EVO cai through the drovers side headlight and took some readings and found them to be 187 g/s? Would everyone then drive around with there headlight outs because of this??
Your talking about a RAM AIR modification. Of course its going to yield higher or next to #'s of a simple CAI design. 
Now, figure out a way to connect a hose from your front bumper, and attach it to the front side of the EVO intake and take some readings. The forced air should raise the 178 g/s you so somewhere in the neighborhood of the 184 g/s you found with the stock box.
Theres diffrent ways of going around it. Someone people want a clean look and decide to go with a CAI. Others are cheap, or....expiremental, and will hack up thee factorys items looking to improve something for a small dollar amount. I guess, to each there own......
Drew[HR][/HR]​Exactly. What he said.


----------



## JacksSmirkingRevenge (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: (Kode)*

I have a question about the mod. Whenever I see pics of this mod it seems the airbox's opening for the "tube" is always over cut. Is it impossible to make a good clean cut for the tube to fit in, i.e. without alot of insulation tape?
Also, is there enough room in there for 4 inches?


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (JacksSmirkingRevenge)*

You have to understand that it's a "ghetto" mod and done at home with basic tools. In my book, as long as it works....
The hole itself is ovalized in nature. You will always pretty much overcut. You will have extra space laterally. It fits nice on top and bottom of the hose.


----------



## JacksSmirkingRevenge (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: (hungalicious)*

I do realize that it's a "ghetto" mod. It's just that some of the pics I've seen look as though a chainsaw was used (exaggeration) instead of a dremel. "Ghetto" doesn't eqaul sloppy, does it? As for the lateral space (from the stock hole, correct?), that is what I suspected as the cause for the apparant oversized cuts. Not much you can do with that, other than the insulation. Thanks for the confirmation.
What about a 4" tube though?










[Modified by JacksSmirkingRevenge, 10:22 PM 1-29-2003]


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (feuerdog)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Now, figure out a way to connect a hose from your front bumper, and attach it to the front side of the EVO intake and take some readings. The forced air should raise the 178 g/s you so somewhere in the neighborhood of the 184 g/s you found with the stock box.
Exactly. What he said.[HR][/HR]​laff, that is not possible, so do you mean exactly what he said, think about it?


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (JacksSmirkingRevenge)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have a question about the mod. Whenever I see pics of this mod it seems the airbox's opening for the "tube" is always over cut. Is it impossible to make a good clean cut for the tube to fit in, i.e. without alot of insulation tape?
Also, is there enough room in there for 4 inches?







[HR][/HR]​Well I am sure you can, but it will take more time than necessary. I don't see a 4" working though unless you make it an oval entrance and cut away some of the body frame to fit it down to the lower bumper.


----------



## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: (JacksSmirkingRevenge)*

you could just do it the way BORA_WE does it and install a rubber pipe in the opening and follow it with other piping, then the tube will conform to the hole that is cut... if you do a search on yahoo or google and search for BORA_WE you'll find his entire writeup and instructions for it, only he does it with PVC piping.


----------



## White Jetta (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (rex_racer)*

This is basically the same as buying a BMC CAI isn't it?It is a chambered air filter that you can hook up a tube for a ramair effect.Just like that system that TTswing? created?


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (White Jetta)*

Yes it is, the only difference is that it has a velocity stack within the box. I don't believe the BMC or the viper have one.


----------



## rhedik (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Kudos to Kode for starting one of the most interesting and applicable post related to the Modding madness we all share







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I did my own version of this mod with excellent results. I used a 4" aluminum dryer hose (the metal paper and wire kind) so it squeezed a little tighter in the congested areas going down to the bumper. I pulled it as tight as I could get it so the hose would be as smooth as possible for this kind of hose. Anyways, I took it out for a spin and about crapped my drawers...I felt alot more low end torque and some serious improvements in power all the way through my RPM range. This is WITHOUT smoothing out my box and without glueing the little flap/door at the back of the box.
Then, I wanted a cleaner look because I did a cruddy job of cutting the hole in my box so I bought a new bottom half and decided to go 3" rubber RV sewage hose and just use the existing opening with little rubber gasket. It was cleaner looking but the first thing I noticed was a serious loss in low end torque/power (call it whatever) and no more deep throaty growl. DAYUM. All that time, I was hoping a 1" difference wouldn't matter but, like the girls keep tellin' us...it's all about the width








Now, I saw somebody (BORA_WE or something) did this mod with 3" PVC pipe. I bought all the supplies and will be doing it next weekend after my Koni Yellow and 28mmm rear sway install this weekend







I'm curious to see if a 3" smooth hose is better than a 4" hose with all those little ridges from the wires etc. Also, I added a 4"-3" adapter opening on the end so that it will act like an air scoop. I'd like to make a scoop that covers the entire lower grill opening BUT with the actual hole the air will be travelling down at 3" when it enters the pipe. Anyone try this yet? 
Thanks to all for a SWEET thread. This has been THE best mod I've done to my car in terms of actual performance gains and it was fun doing it myself. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif to all the ppl who rag on us DIYers for not wasting out money on CAIs.
Last thought...3" SMOOTH pipe for faster air travel OR 4" hose with ridges? Will a bigger size gain better performance or will smaller size with smoother/faster delivery of air yield better gains? That is the answer I'd like to know. I may have to order one the 3.5" hoses from JC Whitney to try that as well.


----------



## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*

I have a 3.5" JC Whitney duct waiting to be installed. It's not smooth on the inside of it, just so you know. I originally bought the same dyer vent that you did, but then I got to thinking that it would likely rattle against other metal parts so I ordered the duct from JC Whitney. I really need to get around to doing this!


----------



## Dr. Edlocks (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Last thought...3" SMOOTH pipe for faster air travel OR 4" hose with ridges? Will a bigger size gain better performance or will smaller size with smoother/faster delivery of air yield better gains? [HR][/HR]​4" will physically flow more air by its diameter alone, but I don't know if the ridges definitely create enough turbulance to sort of cancel out the extra 1" of diameter and make it about equal to a smooth 3" duct. 
I'm in the process of making my own (pics and write-up soon to follow) so I'm not going to offer up any of my own twists on this mod _just yet_, but I think that 3" smooth ducting with a bellmouth (flared) scoop (or 4"-to-3" adapter like you're thinking) will *probably* flow just about as well as the ribbed 4" dryer duct without the scoop. Just my $.02 
($.02 without testing , so take it for what it's worth, which is about $.01








)


----------



## TreyS (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Dr. Edlocks)*

I did this mod on Sat w/o knowing about this thead. Just figured it would be a easy and useful mod.
Nice numbers on the first page. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I actually used a 3" hose and it fit perfectly in the airbox and the rubber seal did it's job nicely. The hose had pleanty of clearance around the battery and fits in between the horn and bumper w/o bending anything.
I guess I'll have to go to the dyno and see if it truly helped.


----------



## rhedik (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (TreyS)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I actually used a 3" hose and it fit perfectly in the airbox and the rubber seal did it's job nicely. The hose had pleanty of clearance around the battery and fits in between the horn and bumper w/o bending anything.
I guess I'll have to go to the dyno and see if it truly helped.[HR][/HR]​Honestly, if you can't tell if you received any kind of gains with this mod without a dyno, then it was worthless. I can promise you, you don't need a dyno to feel the difference. If you don't, then a 3" hose isn't big enough. I used a 4" to begin with, had great gains, then dropped to 3" and lost almost all of it (read previous post). There is a sweet spot between 3.5" 4" I believe where you can really feel it. Did you have the end of the hose situated like a RAM air? Curious. Sucks you can't feel any difference.







If I were you, I'd try a bigger johnson, er, hose










[Modified by rhedik, 8:13 PM 2-12-2003]


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*

this is quite interesting indeed. nice research. id be curious as to how some other aftermarket CAI's stack up to this. 
i am a little suprised with it however. i would expect since the evo puts the filter down there in that vent that it would flow just as well.


----------



## Dr. Edlocks (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (KurtP)*

Open elements, filters-on-a-stick, etc...will suck up air from wherever they can get it from, even if it's in the same general area of the bumper vent. A lot of that tends to be hot ambient air which robs your engine of HP and efficiency. A sealed "ram" hose routed from the bumper vent to the airbox will bring in only cooler air from outside the engine compartment, thus the noticeable difference other than just intake growl. I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, it's just that one makes way more sense to me if you look at how it works. Try 'em both and see what you like better. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (KurtP)*

quote:[HR][/HR]this is quite interesting indeed. nice research. id be curious as to how some other aftermarket CAI's stack up to this. 
i am a little suprised with it however. i would expect since the evo puts the filter down there in that vent that it would flow just as well.







[HR][/HR]​Actually the difference is this, a CAI (majority of them) are not pressurized by the moving air, they only take in air upon the turbo/engine requesting it. The system here is using the RAM effect to have the line pressurized at all times, so in essence air is being pressed on the turbo even if it isn't asking for it ready to be used by the engine. This in return is making the car more responsive while you are driving and the added pressure is making for higher airflow numbers.
Now there are two systems that I know of that you could purchase that do relatively the same thing minus a velocity stack and larger volume air box and they are the BMC and the Piper Cross Viper, they can be pressurized using the ram effect.


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*

yeah, but not for 40 bux


----------



## rhedik (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

anyone tried the 4" hose from JC Whitney? If it is slightly bendable/collapsable, then it should work in the tight areas and then open back up where it has room.
Wondering if I shouldn't buy both the 3.5" and the 4" and if the 4"doesn't work, then just use the 3.5" and use the 4" on my Honda


----------



## rhedik (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*

Nevermind bout JC Whitney...those [email protected] wanted $10 shipping & handling for a hose that cost $13. I sent them a pretty cruddy email about ripping ppl off. What a crock. I will never buy from a company that tries to make a %30-50 markup off effin shipping and handling. Handle this....


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*

I bet JC Whitney changes $10 for anything that fits in a certain size box, for instance, I bet if you bought a small $500 part it would be $10 shipping. They do this for several reasons, mainly simplicty though. You can think of it this way, where are you going to find the right hose for $23 or less in your home town?


----------



## GTI 2744 (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Stock Box w/ stock filter, smoothed inners = 172 g/s
Stock Box w/ stock filter, smoothed inners, ram hose = 177 g/s
EVO CAI = 178 g/s
Stock Box w/ ITG, smoothed inners, ram hose = 184 g/s
[Modified by Kode, 4:40 PM 1-16-2003][HR][/HR]​See my question is...what kind of filter was on the EVO? it seems to me that the air flow with the EVO and the stock box all smoothed out and everything was the same as the EVO. it only went higher when you stuck the ITG in the box. what would the numbers be like if you ran the same type of filter on the EVO and the stock box, i think that would be a better comparison cuz all filters aren't the same (just stating a fact, not trying to be rude or anything). 
i'm on both sides of this CAI or no CAI thing too...i have one that i got as a gift...its not a true CAI...it positions the filter at the outlet from all that wonderful "ducting" behind the headlight that vw did for the stock box and i love it sounds great and looks great...but i have no idea if its making any more power then the airbox mod could and i have no way of testing it....(i use a mac so no VAG COM for me







)


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GTI 2744)*

i can agree w/ the above. im highly leary of foam filters ability to filter crud out despite more power.
still, this mod is really showing some good numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


[Modified by KurtP, 12:21 PM 2-13-2003]


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GTI 2744)*

1. Your point is not valid because you are comparing apples to oranges. Think of it this way, we all know the EVO filter is extremely less restrictive than a stock airfilter that our car comes with. Notice that with the restrictive stock filter the #' are almost identical. I have already proved by that alone that it flows more because equal #'[url=http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroloser?cmd=logout] with a more restirctive filter shows more potential. So using your logic, I would rather see how an EVO would perform with a stock airfilter around it instead of the high flow that it has now. You will than see the #'[url=http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroloser?cmd=logout] drop. Get my point? 
I can even go further, since the test has proven more potential already by the modded airbox, don'[url=http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroloser?cmd=logout] you think it will benefit more from a less restrictive filter than say the EVO getting just a slightly less restrictive filter? So think of it like this, if the stock filter flows as a 4 and the EVO filter flows like a 8 and the foam filter flows like a 9, why is going up 1 step on the EVO going to yield much better results?
2. Who wants to buy a $200 EVO and than another $40 for a foam cone?


----------



## Brake_Dust (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

gotta read this later








BTW nice!


----------



## rhedik (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

I've done the airbox mod with the hose. Good gains but I've noticed alot of dirt and little rocks stuck in the K&N oil that has dripped onto the bottom half of the airbox. I went ahead and oiled the entire bottom half of the airbox and spread it THINLY all over the plastic to help trap the dirt etc. With this mod, obviously more particles are getting in the airbox versus the stock setup. I'm going to check it in a week and see just how much more dirt has been trapped by the oil on the plastic rather than letting it get all in the air filter. I also dremeled out all the baffles and the big divider wall. I also smoothed out the top half of the airbox and oiled it as well. If some dirt DOES get through the K&N, I have another chance to stop it before it gets into the engine.
Anyone else try this? The oil is spread thin enough it won't get into the MAF so I'm not concerned with that.


----------



## Dr. Edlocks (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*

You could also try stopping most of the crap that gets in right where it enters: The bumper duct. If you put some sort of mesh/screen/pantyhose at the beginning of the duct tract at the bumper you might stop a whole lot more stuff from getting up into the airbox in the first place. Plus, if this "crap net" gets clogged up, access to it is quick and easy to clean it off real quick. Less work than futzing around with the airbox. (not that it's all that hard to begin with). Then you would also have that thin layer of oil you coated the lower half of the box with as a backup catch for anything smaller that might make its way up the intake tract. Just a thought. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rhedik (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Dr. Edlocks)*

Good point. BUT (there's always a big but in there somewhere







there was a study that showed that the biggest bottleneck in airflow in our cars was the 2 little screens at the MAF section of the intake. I've looked at those screens, they aren't a tight weave at all. So if I put yet another screen into the equation, I've just restricted the airflow even more. Plus, I have to recharge the K&N anyways and take it out, so coating a little oil around the box for a little extra dirt stopping action won't hurt a bit.
I could really tell a difference when I removed all those baffles in the airbox (top and bottom). Now, it's time to take out the 3" hose and put the 4" back in. I had a huge drop in improvement when I replace the 4" with the 3" but I wanted to see if there was a difference. I now have my answer. 
It'll be interesting to see how much tiny particles will be stuck in the oil when I check my box in about a week. I'll post my findings.


----------



## Anthony.L (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*

Excellent thread guys, well worth the read. I'm going to be switching out my Carbonio CAI for this mod soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Wolfsburg1Point8T (Apr 11, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*

Yea i dont believe the block 120. First look at my mods. 2 you think i am only pushing out 165 hp? I dont trust block 120, the only thing i trust is a dyno. Show those results on a dyno and i will believe it. But i dont believe it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## andrew1984 (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Wolfsburg1Point8T)*

is there a problem with taking the screens out from the MAF with a dremel? this will lessen the air flow restriction.. will it ruin my MAF?


----------



## rhedik (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (andrew1984)*

quote:[HR][/HR]is there a problem with taking the screens out from the MAF with a dremel? this will lessen the air flow restriction.. will it ruin my MAF?[HR][/HR]​I wouldn't recommend dremelling them out. They just pop out. I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND TAKING THEM OUT though. Yes, the screens restrict airflow but it does it for a reason (at least guys here on the 'Tex think so). The MAF is extremely sensitive and it's (the screens) there for a reason. Also, when dremelling out the plastic ridges, take out the MAF housing so you don't get tiny little plastic particles all over the MAF. 


[Modified by rhedik, 9:40 PM 2-25-2003]


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Wolfsburg1Point8T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Yea i dont believe the block 120. First look at my mods. 2 you think i am only pushing out 165 hp? I dont trust block 120, the only thing i trust is a dyno. Show those results on a dyno and i will believe it. But i dont believe it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif [HR][/HR]​Is this from left field? What the heck are you talking about "pushing out 165hp". Either way you have no clue what you are talking about if you are want to test a ram air system on a dyno, where are you going to get the wind from sitting still. Secondly the dynojet numbers in my sig are with this mod on my car and yes my #'s went up on the dyno by 5 horsepower and 30ft/lb. Granted the dyno with evo had very low torque numbers (210), but I am not saying that this will add 30tq, just so happened to do so on my car.


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Question: About how many feet of ducting is required for this mod??
Thanks


----------



## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

You shouldn't need more than 3 feet


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (ZinK)*

Get about 4 feet. You'll most likely only use about 3' and some change...


----------



## perf311 (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

any more results from any of the tests that were performed? this is a great thread, and i've been following it since the beginning. much respect to everyone involved.







what's the likely hood a dealer would notice a dremeled airbox







how about a guess as to what an OEM unit might cost.


----------



## rhedik (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (perf311)*

quote:[HR][/HR]any more results from any of the tests that were performed? this is a great thread, and i've been following it since the beginning. much respect to everyone involved.







what's the likely hood a dealer would notice a dremeled airbox







how about a guess as to what an OEM unit might cost.[HR][/HR]​I switched out my 3" for a 4" hose and noticed a big gain in power but I had also dremelled out all the ridges and smoothed it out pretty good. I also got a 4" rubber ring for pvc pipe and used that to replace the rubber ring originally going into the airbox. I obviously had to dremel the hole bigger but I did it so it fit nice and tight. It almost looks OEM and it holds the 4" hose in nice and tight.
I also noticed how many little rocks and dirt were in the box after I did this mod. Soooo, I sprayed a light coat of K&N oil on both top and bottom pieces of the airbox, making sure to smear it around with my fingers so it wouldn't be too thick and muck up the MAF. After a week, I opened up the box and the oil was coated in little rocks that had gotten stuck. It's nice knowing it's in the oil and not all in the air filter. I'd hate for one to punch through the filter and get into the engine. 
This mod just plain works. 
Also, ask around if you want another airbox to play with...I did. There are always ppl selling them in the classifieds. I bought a bottom for $15 since I messed my first one up.


[Modified by rhedik, 1:31 AM 3-11-2003]


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## BoostMiser (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Might have to give this a try.


----------



## nunzo319 (Oct 6, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jetta_1.8Tip)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Someone should definately produce a aftermarket stock airbox after seeing the result here. This cost a grand total of $75 dollars, that is the ITG, hose, and isulation tape to make it solid.
OK, so any volunteers to produce a kit like this? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​
i'm working on a kit that takes an audi tt fender vent, piping, and a custom connector and uses the air from the wheel well for cooling


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## wolfsburgSLC (May 8, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (nunzo319)*

All these DIY mods seem like a lot of time and effort for a few measly horse power. If people spent all the time they spend on doing this kind of stuff working, they could afford other mods that would produce real power. I am not criticizing, just saying there is a better way.


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## nunzo319 (Oct 6, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (wolfsburgSLC)*

quote:[HR][/HR]All these DIY mods seem like a lot of time and effort for a few measly horse power. If people spent all the time they spend on doing this kind of stuff working, they could afford other mods that would produce real power. I am not criticizing, just saying there is a better way.[HR][/HR]​
its more of a lazy day thing, i dont call of of work and dedicate days doing this stuff, its just a hobby, and sometimes a money making venture


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## johnAWD (Aug 13, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there.*

Good info - thanks for the work put into it. 
Was the air temp the same for all the tests? I've been considering the same type of mods for my A4 stock airbox.


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## johnAWD (Aug 13, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (wolfsburgSLC)*

Maybe, but it's so satisfying to get creative with some DIY stuff. I've had some pretty good results with free/cheap/DIY mods. 
And being that I'm currently unemployed..








quote:[HR][/HR]All these DIY mods seem like a lot of time and effort for a few measly horse power. If people spent all the time they spend on doing this kind of stuff working, they could afford other mods that would produce real power. I am not criticizing, just saying there is a better way.[HR][/HR]​


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*

not to a stick in the mud(since you're TM and can make my life on vortex very difficult







), but i hear you pretty much have to be standing on the throttle while sitting in 15 to 18 inches of water(U-boat captain thread) before you hydro lock your ride.


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## Kode (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (wolfsburgSLC)*

quote:[HR][/HR]All these DIY mods seem like a lot of time and effort for a few measly horse power. If people spent all the time they spend on doing this kind of stuff working, they could afford other mods that would produce real power. I am not criticizing, just saying there is a better way.[HR][/HR]​So your saying that the people that already work here for 60+ hours a week as it is in this crummy market should work harder when all they can think about is getting home and playing with their car? That makes perfect sense to me







, maybe you should think about this more in someone else's shoes first before making a remark like this. Obviously the majority of people hear get a lot of satisfaction from DIY since there are so many threads on it, wouldn't you think?


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## boraattack (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Yeah why spend $200 plus for a cai when you can make your own for under $100. And not only that but many of the products that you buy started off as some diy project.


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## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (boraattack)*

I finally did this mod. I like it so far but I do have one problem. At about 70 or 80 mph the duct gets blown out of place where it takes in the air at the lower grill. How did you guys secure it there? 
Thanks!


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## kewl20v (May 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Gatorfreak)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I finally did this mod. I like it so far but I do have one problem. At about 70 or 80 mph the duct gets blown out of place where it takes in the air at the lower grill. How did you guys secure it there? 
Thanks![HR][/HR]​Just read your post, good point. I am gonna do this in the next month and I am going to secure the lower pipe to something down there via a bracket of some kind.


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## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (kewl20v)*

Well I ended up using cable ties (zip ties) for now. I just drove an hour and a half at 70+ mph and it held fine.


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## RoyalOakMichiganJim (Apr 6, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Silver_1.8T)*

ummmmm, HACKING up factory Items??? I call this mod GREATLY improving on the stock design!!! I am doing the airbox part of the mod with a buddy today, and being a welder, will go with a metal tubing duct and have it powder coated at my work to look stockish....anyone that knocks this kickass mod is mad because they WASTED their money on a CAI..... just my opinion! Fire up the Dremel!


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## boraattack (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (RoyalOakMichiganJim)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DevX (May 24, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (boraattack)*

Think i may try this mod this weekend http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Nessal (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*

Wouldn't it be better to have smooth tubing into the intake box rather then the rigged tubing you used? I would think that it would cause less air turbalance.


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## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Nessal)*

werd!


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## DimcheMKV (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (CruiseVW)*

What if we can get someone to do some madreal bends! yes i said it madrel bends, my freinds dad has a freind who owns a shop that has the right machine to do madrel bends....I know hes not lieing for one cuz he said its pretty big machine and that he will bring me to the place to see that it dosnt do crush bends








SO lets say i can get a pipe made going straight to the airbox...would this be worth it or should i just go with the regular tubeing?
I am also looking for the semi bov and sucking in air sound








I like to be herd and noticed he he he


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## RoyalOakMichiganJim (Apr 6, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (DimcheMKV)*

I did the airbox part of the mod and I must say that it is indeed a bit quicker than before!!!! LOVE the louder turbo whistle as well!







I will ATTEMPT to use a welded tubing design for the seamless approach on the ducting..... looking for appropriate tubing to use.... I will be going to a muffler shop to find the right diameter and radius on the bends!!!! Ill keep you all posted!


_Modified by RoyalOakMichiganJim at 12:38 AM 4-30-2003_


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## reeston (Oct 18, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (RoyalOakMichiganJim)*

Is there a way to modify your CAI tube to mate it to the stock airbox? I'm starting to get tired of my AEM (too noisey) and I am considering doing this mod. If I can somehow create an air scoop in-place of AEM filter, modify the tube to connect to the airbox, (rubber hosing or something), think it can work?


_Modified by reeston at 10:33 PM 4-29-2003_


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## Gus Polinski (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Ok, so with that big 'ol scoop at the front of the car, any implications of driving through a big puddle? I did so 
last week during a thunderstorm... I'd worry about taking in water?!!


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## wolfsburgSLC (May 8, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

I guess my only real question is if shaving down some ribbing inside of an airbox really makes a difference? That can't produce enough extra power to be able to feel anything. But I do fully encourage people playing with their cars.


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## dubboy1 (Nov 9, 2002)

I've found the best thing to do is just buy a used CAI from someone who figures this ghetto looking mod was a better idea. That way, I don't spend much money, and my car doesn't look like garbage under the hood. Trust me, I looked into all of the options with the stock box, and it came down to an easy decision for me. Either keep the box stock, or buy a nice used CAI and move on. I'm all for DIY mods, but I also don't want to hack up a nice airbox (which I use in the winter) just to save a few bucks.


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Nessal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nessal* »_Wouldn't it be better to have smooth tubing into the intake box rather then the rigged tubing you used? I would think that it would cause less air turbalance.









If you get the right duct, it will have ribs outside and be smooth inside


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## kewl20v (May 15, 2002)

*Re: (dubboy1)*

I don't spend much money, and my car doesn't look like garbage under the hood.  
This mod is totally cheap, A heckuva lot cheaper than a used CAI. As far as the garbage look, there is none. From up top the tube is hidden by the battery box and routed down to the front. If your were concerned about it showing, just paint it a dark color, mine is black and barely noticeable.


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## JaKePlaZma (Feb 19, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Has anybody thrown any codes doing the stock airbox mod? Also, what's the difference between TTSchwing's mod and the BMC CDA? Any downside to the BMC? Info PLEASE!


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## dpak4eva (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

very interesting,... this might gain in high end, but doesnt this reduce the low end power?


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## RoyalOakMichiganJim (Apr 6, 2003)

*Re: (dubboy1)*

In My Opinion, many DIY projects are NOT to save money! It has to do with the pride of doing it yourself!!!!!! sheesh! why on earth would anybody flame someone doing this to their car? As far as cobbling up the stock airbox, all it does is make it flow better! No harm done there!
Being a metal fabricater/ welder, I will attempt to make a duct from my gutted airbox a la JORGE {thanks for the idea!}, but I will use mandrel bent metal tubing so that it is totally smooth internally, and the kicker will be a velocity stack down by the bumper inlet.....so the squirrels will be sucked in smoothly... LOL! I hope I can pull this off this weekend.... gonna be a pain in the ass since its not a flexible hose, but this is what DIY is all about! I got the money for a Carbonio but I would rather improve on that design.....or at least attempt to....Horsepower is the GOAL!!!!!!!


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## dpak4eva (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: (RoyalOakMichiganJim)*

we aint stoppin u


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## BoostMiser (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: (dpak4eva)*

bump


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (nunzo319)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nunzo319* »_
i'm working on a kit that takes an audi tt fender vent, piping, and a custom connector and uses the air from the wheel well for cooling

Better do a patent search on that one. There is already a working prototype being developed by a couple companies.


----------



## piscorpio (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (3wheelinWolf)*

Good mod, I had thoughts of doing this already, but it is nice to see some dyno numbers from it as well. Thanks for sharing. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 337`drew (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (piscorpio)*

Bump because this simply owns. I don't really like CAIs







If you suck in air from a short straw (our stock air box) its much easier than sucking air though a long straw (CAIs). Plus, once you start moving, you get RAM-AIR which helps eliminate negative boost (turbo lag). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Tadd (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Bringing this one back. Great thread, tonnes of valuable info!
And also..........proving the stock airbox w/ smoothed inners, a ram hose and an ITG filter brings more air than an aftermarket intake such as: AEM.
Back and Better than Ever. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 98vwgti (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Tadd)*

man this thread too long to read thru.... i wondered what (if anything) you put on the end of the tube up front of your car.....like a lil cone filter or what? also u have any numbers to look at? id love to do that mod, its dope http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (98vwgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98vwgti* »_man this thread too long to read thru.... i wondered what (if anything) you put on the end of the tube up front of your car.....like a lil cone filter or what? also u have any numbers to look at? id love to do that mod, its dope http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









The first post on this thread has the numbers. It flows as good as a CAI. The end of the hose is "open". No filter or anything. Straight ram air. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 98vwgti (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

thats phat, im gonna go do that mod today!


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## 01silverGTI (Nov 14, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (98vwgti)*

brought back to life..keepin the info flowin


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## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (01silverGTI)*

I was SOOO looking for this thread for the longest time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KOG (Mar 5, 2003)

sweet


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Silver_1.8T)*

I'll be doing that exact same mod soon


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## Tadd (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (98vwgti)*

Yeah , this is a good thread, chock full of info..
and this is an excellent,cost-efficient,DIY modification. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 98vwgti (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Tadd)*

ok so i did the mod, and am happy with it! i can DEF. hear more sucking sound, its phat.....if u havent , then DO IT!


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## veritas137 (Jul 24, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (98vwgti)*

Wow, this thread is still around. Good info about what is probably the best air intake for our cars.


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## Tristan (Aug 2, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*

Good read and intersting info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 337drew (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf* »_Wow, this thread is still around. Good info about what is probably the best air intake for our cars.

Agreed. It looks the best out of all the CAIs IMO. Keeps the stock looks but sounds and feels gewd! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Get yourself a nice clean black Pipe


----------



## tifoso (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (337drew)*

Just did mine tonight, pretty easy. Got a question for you guys though....how's the fuel economy? I let the car idle for 10 mins after I connected the battery and then went on a drive..... computer tells me I'm getting 23.9mpg while I'm driving in the city, and I wasn't driving Miss Daisy either, I floored it whenever I could.


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

For those of you looking for the right tubing here http://www.mcmastercarr.com they have everything we want to do self mods. Here is the hose part No. 3" 5499K246 you can then choose up to 12" check it. Catalogue Page 169.
In regards to the actual mod, It will be underway today, I have the Dual IC so I might have to route it differently, and I noticed that there is an extra inlet with a flap for extra air if needed...Is it possible to route a hose there to, to double it up?
_Modified by Don R at 7:36 AM 8-9-2003_


_Modified by Don R at 7:40 AM 8-9-2003_


----------



## divminsVR6beast (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. ()*

OK people I had this thing for like 1 year now, I didint read it or saw it anywhere, I came up with it for myself. Now I improved my design. I have VR6 but I dont thing it matters. I removed the bottom of the air box and removed the MAF housing from the top of the box. That MAF housing was put directly on the house. The top of the filter with K&N filter ziptied to it is sitting right in front of the grill on the bottom of the bumper, ( had to remove one horn though) I sounds beautifully my intake is literally louder and nicer that firebird








sorry no pics
Only CZech with Jetta on Vortex


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. () (divminsVR6beast)*

Any numbers on the dyno?


----------



## gtian (Feb 15, 2001)

Warning Warning
Make sure you have a dremel or power sander before attempting the smoothing part


----------



## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: (gtian)*

bump for knowledge http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## piscorpio (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: (gtian)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtian* »_Warning Warning
Make sure you have a dremel or power sander before attempting the smoothing part









And make sure your dremel is electric and not battery operated. I learned the hard way, I had to take a few hours break every so often, took forever!


----------



## genikz (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (tifoso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tifoso* »_Just did mine tonight, pretty easy. Got a question for you guys though....how's the fuel economy? I let the car idle for 10 mins after I connected the battery and then went on a drive..... computer tells me I'm getting 23.9mpg while I'm driving in the city, and I wasn't driving Miss Daisy either, I floored it whenever I could.

I would like to know as well what the mileage difference is with this mod. Going from a stock box to a Velocity CAI, my mileage dropped a bit. And now that i see 20psi from time to time, i've dropped to about 300-325 miles per tank








while i'm at it, can anybody who has done this mod tell me how it pulls after 5000 rpm compared to a CAI?


----------



## tifoso (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (genikz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *genikz* »_
I would like to know as well what the mileage difference is with this mod. Going from a stock box to a Velocity CAI, my mileage dropped a bit. And now that i see 20psi from time to time, i've dropped to about 300-325 miles per tank








while i'm at it, can anybody who has done this mod tell me how it pulls after 5000 rpm compared to a CAI? 

Now, there's a growl between 2K and 3K rpm. It was never there before, but I've drove about 1K miles already since I installed it, guess the ECU is really getting used to the extra cold air now. I average 23mpg city, 29hwy.... not the greatest considering premium is $2.19 a gallon!


----------



## SpDsTeR (Jul 2, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

How much did this airbox mod cost you?


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (TrB0GTi)*

Drop-in filter ~$40-50
Airduct ~$20
$70 at the most. If you don't have a Dremel, borrow one or buy one. If that's the case, add more money.
The airbox mod is cheap and works.


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

How long of a hose is needed? I'm guessing 5 feet should be enough?
Khyron


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Khyron)*

You'll need about 4 feet. Get 5 just in case..


----------



## wolfsburgSLC (May 8, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

I have read this thread several times, but here is a question I pose. I read an article written by someone at Carbonio, and they say the 3" ribbed hose has a few issues. First, they say that the inside is so ribbed that it creates turbulence in the air, resulting in a net diameter equal to about 1" instead of three. Second, on turbo cars, you can't cool the air enough to really make a difference. The turbo is so hot that a few degrees cooler air really isn't going to compensate for the temperature of the air once it reaches the turbo. So air temperaturer is not the issue, volume is. Therefore, you need to consider what device will provide the least amount of air resistance, which is a function of air flow. This DIY mod finds its downfall with the turbulent tubing. Is there another kind of tubing that can be used that isn't ribbed?


_Modified by wolfsburgSLC at 2:29 AM 9-30-2003_


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (wolfsburgSLC)*

Look at the numbers on the very first post of this thread. Pretty much answers your questions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spaceghost (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

catch any squirrels in that thing








bump for good idea











_Modified by spaceghost at 11:53 PM 9-30-2003_


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (wolfsburgSLC)*

This mod is done to reduce negative pressure, not to provide cold air. Our cars already come with a cold air intake. Smoothing the insides helps reduce turbulence. You also need to purchase QUALITY 3 inch ducting. It will cost you about 30-50 bucks, but the insides will be smooth. I got mine from http://www.ihoz.com I think it was called T7 hose. It's pricey, but it will work. 
The only way to get cold air in our cars is to upgrade your IC. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (judoGTI)*

judo, check your link..


----------



## johnny5gti (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (hungalicious)*

the link is http://www.ihozs.com .
I got my 4" ducting there..great stuff


----------



## Nessal (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (mk4 turbo gti)*

Would be good if you did the test with the stock airbox and the ITG alone so we could see the numbers with just the ITG filter. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## blackgti20th (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Sweet, just what I was looking for! A way to retain the stock airbox while still having CAI like performance. It would be easy to keep the sleeper/subtle look with this mod. Nice.


----------



## GT Eye (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (blackgti20th)*

Ok, I'm going to swallow my pride and ask some really dumb questions
1) How do you remove the airbox? I see two screws and pipes that lead in/out of the airbox. Do I disconnect the hoses?
2) Where is the engine intake valve and how do I go about sealing it?
3) Ditto the water gate, and do I have to cut it out?
Thanks guys
Gonna go with T-7 3" Hose
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## snarbles (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GT Eye)*

hate to be such an antagonist, but won't the corrugated hose cause excess turbulance?


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (snarbles)*

Unfortunately the original hose I found [bumble bee] is smooth on the inside...


----------



## GTI.TECHNIK (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

^^^ This is an excellent device you have there, very good design http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ... Do you have any dyno sheets to prove that your system is better than the Evo???


----------



## GTIShift (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GTI.TECHNIK)*

Great performance and you dont get that woosh sound everytime you let of the gas. How annoying that got after a while.


----------



## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GTIShift)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIShift* »_Great performance and you dont get that woosh sound everytime you let of the gas. How annoying that got after a while. 

haha. I'm starting to get at that point now.. 
maybe Apr was right about the stock airbox..?[insertfootinmouth]
Anyway, I should be doing this mod tomorrow.


----------



## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Hi Guys what Block Measures the Air Flow ? Thanks


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Driverwanted)*

I think 002


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_I think 002

That is supposed to be used at idle simply to see if the MAF registers reasonable numbers. Other people do use it to measure air mass while in normal driving as well.


----------



## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Raman Gain)*

Feel free to elaborate Raman, does the accuracy of the data fall off ?


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Driverwanted)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Driverwanted* »_Feel free to elaborate Raman, does the accuracy of the data fall off ?

Hell if I know.








I've used it to measure if a MAF is within proper ranges at idle, never to measure airflow while at speed.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
Hell if I know.








I've used it to measure if a MAF is within proper ranges at idle, never to measure airflow while at speed.

Where is Andy when you need him?


----------



## GT Eye (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (judoGTI)*

What are the purposes of sealing the engine intake valve and cutting the watergate?


----------



## GT Eye (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GT Eye)*

bump?


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GT Eye)*

Has anyone tried this with PVC pipe? Would it work?
Khyron


----------



## johnny5gti (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Khyron)*

its been done..there was a tutorial..but that link is dead now


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (mk4 turbo gti)*

Found it. PVC might be smoother than any hose no? I'm gonna see if you can even buy 3.5 inch.
http://www.geocities.com/bora_we/cai.htm
Khyron


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## spooled03 (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

hey man can you pls post some pics of where the ITG filter is currently at i mean in box or down by the ram air...thanks good idea http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (spooled03)*

just ordered my 4" tubing today! going to the dealer tomorrow for another airbox so if i have a problem i can switch it back.


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## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*

I know from reading the threads that 3.5 seemed to give the best results, but since I can only get 4 or 3 inch smooth bore hose, which would be better?
Khyron


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Khyron)*

3" unless you have some serious upgrades.


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (rhedik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhedik* »_I could really tell a difference when I removed all those baffles in the airbox (top and bottom). Now, it's time to take out the 3" hose and put the 4" back in. I had a huge drop in improvement when I replace the 4" with the 3" but I wanted to see if there was a difference. I now have my answer. 
It'll be interesting to see how much tiny particles will be stuck in the oil when I check my box in about a week. I'll post my findings.

And yet he thinks the 4 is a huge difference over the 3. Argh. 
Khyron


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

I just did the full mod this weekend, which made it my first performance mod. I used 4" hose and smoothed all the baffles with a dremel and sand paper. Definitely a cool sound so far. One thing I have noticed so far is that there is not as much of a lag from when you hit the gas to the time you feel the g-force. It feels like a better throttle response! Another thing I noticed at highway speeds, my rpm's seem to have dropped so I am not running at as high of rpm's on the highway, (I don't know why), but could that possibly get me better gas milage? or worse?


----------



## SnapDemon (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!* »_my rpm's seem to have dropped so I am not running at as high of rpm's on the highway, (I don't know why), but could that possibly get me better gas milage? or worse?

I don't know how that is possible?? It seems that the engine would have to turn the same amount of times regardless of the amount of hp it is putting out. I may be wrong but I don't think so.


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (SnapDemon)*

Did you use 4 feet of hose or 5? At 12 dollars a foot I don't want to be short but don't want to waste $$ either..








Khyron


----------



## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (Khyron)*

I bought 4' and used about 3 of it, let me go measure how much i have left....and I have 15" left over, so I didn't even use 3 feet. I dunno how some people put 4' into their car?! Do they have it hanging out the lower grille???


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (SnapDemon)*

Definitely a good point! Maybe it was my 40,000 mile service that did that somehow??? But would that make sense either? This was my first mod, so I don't know a whole lot about what can change what in my engine. But I do keep a very close watch on my rpm's at given speeds and at what rpm's my auto/tip shifts at. The drop in rpm's wasn't a lot! For example before the mod and service I would be at 3200 rpm's at 75mph and after service/mod I am at 3000-3100. Guess it could be the service... But the intake noise is cool, and the turbo seems to be more audible as well, more psssssssst sound!


----------



## rmatthews9 (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (veritas137)*

it seems the IHOZS T7 hose only comes in 25' pieces...? anyone wanna split this up with me???


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!* »_I bought 4' and used about 3 of it, let me go measure how much i have left....and I have 15" left over, so I didn't even use 3 feet. I dunno how some people put 4' into their car?! Do they have it hanging out the lower grille???

Hrm so if I get 3 feet I should be ok. That's 36 bucks, not bad at all. I suppose it depends how you attach it to the airbox?
Khyron


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## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

Shoving a 4" tube down to the bottom is a biznatch! Stick with a 3 or 3.5". 
rmatthews9, check out Wilco Supply near I-10 and Lockwood before ordering. They might have what you need. I bought my hoses from them.


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (hungalicious)*

oh please!! 4 inches is no problem! just takes a little more dremeling and muscle, but it is great when you get it done cause it is about the full height of the lower grill, so no wasted space!


----------



## johnny5gti (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*


----------



## johnny5gti (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*

opps double post..
4inches..no problem..


----------



## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

I got the 4" hose down there but took a little longer than usual.







Looking at the picture of your hose, it looks ALOT flimsier than what I had. Either way, it's not a shove and go thing. It takes a little elbow grease.


----------



## matt apr (Oct 29, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Jetta_1.8Tip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jetta_1.8Tip* »_







Wow!!
Someone should buy stock boxes from VW, Mod them and resell as a kit like this!!
Hint, Hint

If someone was really industrious they could make a mold out of a stock airbox and vacuum form a completely smooth version for re-sale.


----------



## 79416 (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (matt apr)*

sorry, this setup looks nervous. why not just get a cai for a 100 bucks used.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (-YZ-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-YZ-* »_sorry, this setup looks nervous. why not just get a cai for a 100 bucks used.

Because I spent 30 and don't get that lame sound.


----------



## 79416 (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
Because I spent 30 and don't get that lame sound.

uh... yea something like that







and your intake is composed of vaccum cleaner attachments. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (-YZ-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-YZ-* »_
uh... yea something like that







and your intake is composed of vaccum cleaner attachments. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Gotta give us/them credit for doing it though, haha if I put an AEM sticker on it would that make it worth $200? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








All their intakes are just recycled tin cans in the form of a tube.
Pay big $$$$ for tin cans?







No way!!


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (Khyron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Khyron* »_
Hrm so if I get 3 feet I should be ok. That's 36 bucks, not bad at all. I suppose it depends how you attach it to the airbox?
Khyron


Sorry to hammer this home, but my hose cost just jumped to 18 bucks a foot for smooth bore 3.5 inch. No one needed more than 3 feet of it? 20VTurbo used 2'9" - anyone use over 3? Gonna go pick it up tomorrow morning. 
Thanks!
Khyron


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (Khyron)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spoolinvdub (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: (Khyron)*

what happened to the breather hose that you have to cut from the stock airbox when you go from CAI to stock airbox. how do you seal it off?


----------



## spoolin (Jan 3, 2002)

*Re: (spoolinvdub)*

you dont cut it off.... it just pops off.
usually a small breather filter goes on the end


----------



## johnny5gti (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (-YZ-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-YZ-* »_sorry, this setup looks nervous. why not just get a cai for a 100 bucks used.

atleast my panel filter is at the top while your cai filter is at the obttom with a more chance of hydrolocking..
plus the hose i got was from a friend so i cant complain about it and it cost me almost nothing


----------



## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (mk4 turbo gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk4 turbo gti* »_
atleast my panel filter is at the top while your cai filter is at the obttom with a more chance of hydrolocking..
plus the hose i got was from a friend so i cant complain about it and it cost me almost nothing

can i get a witness!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dipstickchick (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: (Khyron)*

Khyron, I used 4" suction hose. It ran about $5 a foot. but like somebody said earlier, it remains smooth internally through bends. It's a pita to put in because it is so stiff. 
Plus, I just passed emissions with it in. He gave it a raised eyebrow, but that was it.


_Modified by dipstickchick at 8:11 AM 4-14-2004_


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (dipstickchick)*

Why would you not pass emmissions with it? It is in essence the same thing as the OEM tube, just larger and to a different location. Those emmission people are 2 steps away from being full fledge terrorists ready to take over.


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (dipstickchick)*

I got some 4 inch black flexible pipe similar to the one posted at the beginning of the thread. There was some perfectly smooth hose, but it had virtually no flex to it at all (Maybe 5-10 degrees?)
There was this super cool stuff I almost bought - it was polyeuthane tube so perfectly smooth, and had the metal coils on the outside. Again, I was concerned about bending and flex.
Khyron


----------



## dipstickchick (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

I wasn't worried about the intake passing, just getting the guys curiousity up, know what I mean? It was my first smog in CA. and I was paranoid. He also eyballed the samco tip a little too long.


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (dipstickchick)*

































So I got it in and it's cool - but my butt dyno isn't sensitive enough to notice anything. (That's not me in the first pic, that's my slightly handicapped assistant.)
Khyron


----------



## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Khyron)*

This thread rocks. I just wanted to say I swiss cheesed my air box yesterday and will be putting a K&N in today. Even with the stock filter I noticed a marginal improvement in throttle response and definite sound improvement (if you're like me and enjoy an audible driving experience), both from the intake growl and DV hiss. 
I am going to route some ducting up to the intake also when I get a chance. Not so much of a "ram air", but it will at least make things a bit cooler.
This is a great mod for anyone who wants to keep a stealth look or keep their mods on the DL due to warranty issues, or for someone who just dosen't want to drop $250 on a CAI. This mod was essentially free (save for the K&N drop-in), and it served all the demands I had (i.e., sound, performance, stock look). I got all that with this mod and saved $200. Oh, and I had fun doing it too. Bonus day!








Now I'll take that $250 I was going to buy my Injen CAI with today and order a Forge Hyperboost HX DV. Call me a cheap @$$ if you like, but I'm all about free upgrades.


----------



## kdub790 (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (Shifty1.8T)*

if you swiss-cheesed your airbox (








)... then there is no reason to add the tubing.


----------



## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Shifty1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shifty1.8T* »_
I am going to route some ducting up to the intake also when I get a chance. Not so much of a "ram air", but it will at least make things a bit cooler.

 I know it isn't completely nessesary but, again, more cooler air will find its way up to the box.


----------



## Khyron (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shifty1.8T* »_ I know it isn't completely nessesary but, again, more cooler air will find its way up to the box.

It won't tho - the box has suction, and if the box isn't sealed, hardly anything will go up the hose compared to the rest of the closer holes.
Khyron


----------



## Li'l Blue Booster (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

I just read this whole thread again and I STILL like this mod and am going to do it.
I have an ITG filter in the stock unmodded box but would like to make a less restrictive airbox intake. I am not going to go the ram air route as I don't want to suck up water and winters salt slush. I will just have the inlet hose opening located up a little higher and probably facing vertically down. I have the standard Oettinger grill without the additional inlet (this is one time where styling beat function!) and the grills upper frame blocks the stock intake inlet, I am not sure if is actually restricting the intake or not but it certainly isn't helping it!
My Question is: Where to purchase (on line) the intake hose? I would like to use 3.5" hose minimum and most importantly have the smoothest interior possible from a flex hose. The "bumblebee" hose shown at the beginning is still very corrugated inside are there any smoother options that have been found?


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Li'l Blue Booster)*

I got 2-2.5ft pieces left of 3.5 inch hose. the real deal! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1519926


----------



## PhilipRuff (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (9VW23yrs)*

Do you think this mod would work for any VW (like a II non-turbocharged) or is it only for newer turbocharged models?








thx
im still learning


----------



## SnowGTI2003 (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (PhilipRuff)*

Sure it couldn't hurt. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Reese77 (Oct 20, 2004)

How are you guys using hoses over 3" without bending them past the battery?
My carbonio is 3" and barely fits. i was ready to send it back the fit was so tight. I didn't think i was going to be able to put it on.


----------



## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: (Reese77)*

Back from the dead...
Quick question to Kode....
What were the ambient temps when you did the initial testing compared to the Evo CAI?? I only ask, because when it's cold enough, I have no problems hitting anywhere from 192-198 g/s with my Carbonio installed. This happens pretty much all the time when the temp dips below 30 degrees F.....


_Modified by M Diddy at 6:54 PM 4-24-2005_


----------



## benwaballs (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

awsome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (M Diddy)*

iirc it was the 40s


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

Yeah, I did this mod well over 1 year ago. It is a great mod. I switched from a CIA to stock for a week before doing this cause spring puddles were making me parranoid. When on stock only, my car pulled boost at WOT in 2nd and 3rd gear near redline. 
The day I did the box mod, my car ran like a champ again. I will not say that the mod is better or worse than the CAI, but I will say it is better than the stock snorkel. Plus, there is less risk of hydrolocking with the mod as you still have the emergency flapper do-dad in the stock bottom.
That is my $0.02!! again...
Dave


----------



## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: (ZinK)*

Can anyone recommend where to get this hose at? I've called everywhere in Reading asking for 3.5" Flexible air duct hose and no one has it....


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (M Diddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M Diddy* »_Can anyone recommend where to get this hose at? I've called everywhere in Reading asking for 3.5" Flexible air duct hose and no one has it....

I got mine from http://www.ihozs.com/ Looks like their site is down right now, dont know if its perm or not.


----------



## JacksSmirkingRevenge (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

I got mine from there also. The last time this question was asked and ihozs.com was mentioned the site was down. This was quite a while ago. I don't think they are in business anymore or at least no longer have a website.
edit: dug up my invoice from ihozs and called the number on it(330-653-8561) and it was disconnected. Looks like they are no more. 


_Modified by JacksSmirkingRevenge at 6:18 PM 4-28-2005_


----------



## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: (JacksSmirkingRevenge)*

Anywhere else you can get some by the foot??? Grainger has something that would work great, but it's 90.00 for 25 feet. I don't need that much....


----------



## JacksSmirkingRevenge (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: (M Diddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M Diddy* »_Anywhere else you can get some by the foot??? Grainger has something that would work great, but it's 90.00 for 25 feet. I don't need that much....

did a search with the item code from my invoice and found this: T7 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
do a google search on "Santoprene hose" and you'll find some others


_Modified by JacksSmirkingRevenge at 6:24 PM 4-28-2005_


----------



## pest (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

yeah finally a real way to get more cold air . Guys use to do this years ago on mk3's and now it look sliek it has ciought in again


----------



## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (pest)*

Found a place here that sells Flexaust products. They didn't have any T-7 (bumble bee) but had the CWC (double coated Neoprene) in stock. It was the same inside as the T-7. I got 4 feet of 4" ID, and cut about 1 foot off, so you don't need more then 4 feet. Install was a major PITA with the hose being 4". Had to do a little trimming behind my HID, and still have to trim the back of the HID down a little, but I got it through. 
Impressions??? Let's just say the Carbonio is for sale!







Car feels GREAT now! Throttle response is 10x better, and there's definitly some more torque. I'll do some data logging tonite with the VAG and see what I get. Also, next week, I'll be hopping on the dyno again, so we'll see exactly what kinda gains I picked up. 
All in all, a great mod, and cost me about 90.00 bucks with the K&N (58.00) and hose (37.00)....


_Modified by M Diddy at 5:39 PM 4-29-2005_


----------



## vwsickness007 (Apr 23, 2005)

Stay out of the rain or you will be paddling your car down the street!!! :~P


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (vwsickness007)*

Just a thought: If you can, form the ducting with a verticle loop in it instead of going straight up. Then you can punch a couple of small holes in the bottom of the loop. If any water drops get sucked in, they will adhere to the walls in the loop as they get flung through it. They will then tend to drain out the holes in the bottom. It won't trap dry particles, but it should work for rain. Some of the ducting I saw on McMaster had a 2" bend radius so it *might* fit in the fender.


----------



## MrPiZaT (Jun 4, 2003)

can we just get this stickied cause it freaks me out every time i see it ressurected.


----------



## ironsteel (Feb 18, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Kode, what are ppl using as tubes and where did u get them? A bunch of R32 owners are looking to do similar without a CAI. I'm looking for as smooth as possible on the insides of the tubing. Here's a post for one R32 owner using a GHL snorkel instead.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1744989
Thanks.


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (veritas137)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veritas137* »_Didn't see it mentioned so I will. Another benefit of this over any of the other filter on a stick methods is that if they go underwater, water is going in your engine. If the end of this hose goes underwater, the flap in the airbox opens and you save your engine. I knew VW engineers got paid the big bux for a reason.










What IS that flap for anyways? Is it really for what you said?


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GT-ER)*

I think it's mostly in case the main route gets clogged by snow or leaves, etc. Water must pass though the filter for the engine to hydrolock and with either passageway, it must pass through the filter. The height of the beginning of the stock main passageway is about the same as the alternate path, so both are about equal in terms of not sucking up water when the car is in a river or whatever. Now if a fireman decides to hose the front of your car, the water will be forced into the main passageway. Maybe that will cause the flap to open and pull in air but there still is some suction pulling air/water through the main passageway. My point: don't drive through rivers.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_I think it's mostly in case the main route gets clogged by snow or leaves, etc. Water must pass though the filter for the engine to hydrolock and with either passageway, it must pass through the filter. The height of the beginning of the stock main passageway is about the same as the alternate path, so both are about equal in terms of not sucking up water when the car is in a river or whatever. Now if a fireman decides to hose the front of your car, the water will be forced into the main passageway. Maybe that will cause the flap to open and pull in air but there still is some suction pulling air/water through the main passageway. My point: don't drive through rivers.









it's also to suck warmer engine bay air into the engine when you start up dead cold.


----------



## GTI2urbo (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (screwball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *screwball* »_
it's also to suck warmer engine bay air into the engine when you start up dead cold. 

ive heard this before, but dont think that i buy it. that flap has no connections to anything that would activate it because of temps. the only thing that will cause it to open is the suction caused buy the main air inlet being blocked. could be wrong- but thats my take on it.


----------



## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (GTI2urbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI2urbo* »_ive heard this before, but dont think that i buy it. that flap has no connections to anything that would activate it because of temps. the only thing that will cause it to open is the suction caused buy the main air inlet being blocked. could be wrong- but thats my take on it.

I'm pretty sure thats its main reason. As the inlet for the airbox is pretty small to begin with, it can easily be clogged. I've pulled out tons of leaves from peoples snorkels before. Also, I believe the later models also had a flap in the snorkel to help remove debris.


----------



## veritas137 (Jul 24, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Seanathan)*

Wow, this thread is still around?


----------



## 514passatvr6 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (veritas137)*

Nice lil thread, I just read it all after not being completly satisfied with my ghl intake for 1. fitment issues and 2. power issues.
I am gona bitch at them and hopefully be bale to take it back, because it not fitting sucks.
now, was the initial testing done with a brand new stock filter or a used one?
The people that say they run 3.5 or 4" are crazy because it's pure bottle neck around the battery area, my 3" ghl just fits in very snug.
Also how is the top end effected past 3000rpm vs. cai.
I am of just racing my friends car before and after just to see.
Number's are **** are all great, but at the end of the day what maters, is how much faster it goes, and how much more low end power it has. Did anyone do intake temperatures?



_Modified by 514passatvr6 at 8:18 PM 10-9-2005_


----------



## tuner-automotive (May 16, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (514passatvr6)*

To bad I acnt do this with my 00 1.8t passat.


----------



## muttonchops (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (tuner-automotive)*

Just an update....I had a hardr time finding local tubing....So I found this website...it has the bumble bee ducting...woowoooooooo..
http://www.ducting.com/CWS.html


----------



## 514passatvr6 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (muttonchops)*

I was thinking to myself, where to find some dunlop style rubber piping. The similiar rubber that the AC lines are made of just 3 times wider. very smooth.


----------



## muttonchops (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (514passatvr6)*

You have any links or info on that dunlop tubing? I called the people at that link I provided and they were not nice. I wouldnt recommend them.


----------



## 514passatvr6 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (muttonchops)*


_Quote, originally posted by *muttonchops* »_You have any links or info on that dunlop tubing? I called the people at that link I provided and they were not nice. I wouldnt recommend them.

nono, I was asking for myself as well.
I was just saying that that would be the best option. I have seen that style pipe around, just don't know where to get any.


----------



## 514passatvr6 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (514passatvr6)*

I am running the ghl and just got my vagcom up and running again:
3rd gear redline would pull 168g/s max in 3rd gear redline. It would hit 170 a few times @ 7000rpm.
4th gear I did hit 174 at 6800rpm ish.
Intake temp was constant 39 degrees, and whenever I would rev the motor it would drop to as low as 31. 
I'll keep you guys updated as I am removing the ghl for the stock airbox soon.


----------



## muttonchops (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (514passatvr6)*

Just ordered my tubing from Jc Whitney yesterday....I will install and post my interpretation..I do not have a vagcom, so i cant pull numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 514passatvr6 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (muttonchops)*

I just did 172g/s at the top of 3rd and 178 in 4th with my stock airbox and stock filter.
Look's like 2% more airflow.
I did a [email protected] which i am completly mad about. I am gona try running it with my mbc and Cai next time.


----------



## 514passatvr6 (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (514passatvr6)*

update #3
I put on my cai, n75H, new colder ngk plugs,
and I pulled [email protected]
Not too bad.


----------



## banjomike (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kode* »_Very good questions that I don't have the answers to. The rib removal is a very minimal mod but took the most time. The hose is the key to making this a powerful system. I really don't know why they placed the ribs in the first place. Maybe strength but I can't imagine why they would need to have strength there either.

This is just a theory, but if water were sucked up the box has to be rigid enough to not collapse. If it collapses then the flap may not open in time to prevent water from getting into the engine!
I really doubt that removing the ribs makes much difference at all to the airflow.


----------



## DiasBora604 (Sep 26, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Gatorfreak)*

The "flapper". I'm guessing this thing opens up when the main air intake aka. "snorkel" is clogged or sth.











_Modified by shermanfung at 12:28 AM 11-6-2005_


----------



## Az4569 (Nov 10, 2005)

What is an ITG? I assume it's an air filter? Are they like high flow? where could I get one?


----------



## RonN (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: (Az4569)*

This: http://www.parts4vws.com/catal...WB568 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jhorwath (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (RonN)*

What is better? An ITG or a K&N?


----------



## chiefscotland (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (jhorwath)*

I wouldn't use either i'd go for green http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Matt-K (Jan 21, 2005)

its funny how every couple years people rediscover things people already know.
the stock filter flows just as much as any other one. the only thing is that you have to replace it. so buy any other filter you can wash and call it a day.


----------



## Ghl Motorsports (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (Matt-K)*

GHL will sell just our intake tube and K&N drop in filter for $85.00 shipped lower 48 States.
Please call us toll free 877-930-0911.
[email protected]


----------



## marc_1.8t (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: (Ghl Motorsports)*

sucking hot air.. doesnt hurt the performance on a turbo cars...??? the turbo make too much heat to considarate that?? intercooler transfert more heat to the atmosphere. the intake temp would be similar??? no?


----------



## marc_1.8t (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: (Ghl Motorsports)*

sucking hot air.. doesnt hurt the performance on a turbo cars...??? the turbo make too much heat to considarate that?? intercooler transfert more heat to the atmosphere. the intake temp would be similar??? no?


----------



## Valthar (Aug 31, 2004)

*Re: (marc_1.8t)*

as far as i know, when your car is actually moving, the amount of cold air flowing in your engine bay is usually fine.
Either way, volume > *


----------



## brentmcdaniel07 (Jan 22, 2006)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

hey quick question. i dont really have the money for all the new tubing and stuff but i do have a sander. haha. is it worth shaving the box down if its still goin thru the stock tubes? would it make enough of a difference? 
Thanks


----------



## bikerdudej (Feb 7, 2006)

*Re: (Khyron) question about your turbo inlet*

hey i see you have a some type of turbo inlet just wondering if you had to mod the air box to get it to fit in.? i want to get one soon and i just did this intake mod to my car execpt i put a cone air filter on the bottem by doing so i didnt need the top filter. either way this mod is awsome.


----------



## DiasBora604 (Sep 26, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (brentmcdaniel07)*

shave and toss those stock tubes into the garbage.. or melt then down for scrap... including ur flapper i think thats the most useless thing ever...
i have all that crap removed; no flapper, no snorkel and smoothed out.. yes i may be sucking in hot engine air but at least im getting more air in and can feel a better throddle response


----------



## fastgermancar (May 4, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*


----------



## fastgermancar (May 4, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*


----------



## EASY101 (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kode* »_ On top of that I was getting kind of tired of hearing Darth Vadar breathing all the time and sneezing when I let off the gas.
















I have a k&n w/ fatcory air box and one day I disconnected my dv from the intake and drove it for a day and it sounded like **** in my opinion...needless to say I've never been interested in buying a cai ever since...I cant see how people like driving around hearing that crap non stop.


----------



## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

Yeah, why you'd want a turbo'd car to sound like a turbo'd car is beyond me!








I had a VR6 too, put exhaust on it, and immediately went back to stock, I couldn't stand the noise.


----------



## EASY101 (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Khaos-* »_Yeah, why you'd want a turbo'd car to sound like a turbo'd car is beyond me!








I had a VR6 too, put exhaust on it, and immediately went back to stock, I couldn't stand the noise.

whoa you kinda threw me there...is that sarcasm or no? just curious...because I know everyone has their own opinion when it comes to things like these.


----------



## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (EASY101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EASY101* »_
whoa you kinda threw me there...is that sarcasm or no? just curious...because I know everyone has their own opinion when it comes to things like these. 

lol, very sarcastic.


----------



## EASY101 (Jun 5, 2005)

in all honesty I prefer the sound of the Greddy type S BOV (I think thats the one) if they could make DV's sound like that I'd buy one and then buy a cai.


----------



## EASY101 (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*

lol its not that I dont want my car sounding like a turbod car...to me the diverters on our cars dont sound very good...but thats just my opinion.


----------



## jam.iii (Oct 11, 2005)

*Re: (EASY101)*

i just did this mod today, this is my first performance mod yet, i am new to these forums... i am very happy with the results... i am in no way a techie so all those numbers don't mean a thing to me but what i do notice is that it has a nice subtle sound now and the car feels more peppy! the longest part of doing this was the sanding down of the airbox, the rest went pretty quick...
my question is this... i used an aluminum 3" tube and although it looks like crap and it got bent shoving it down into the grill, it fit OK. i am going to replace the tube as soon as i can with either the bumble bee or rigid PVC pipe. can anyone post any links where i can get a good tube? ducting.com has the bumblebee but at 3.5" you have to buy 25'... i definitely don't need that much. has anyone found somewhere that sells smaller lengths? or can you recommend another tube that works good and is smooth inside? thanks in advance, here's my candy white 1.8T


----------



## 1betoven1 (Sep 28, 2006)

*Hose4ThisProjectNeeded*

Me too.....
Could anyone indicate what kind of hose is the best for this project? 
Thank you.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

so all the hate about a CAI yet everyone turns their stock airboxes into just one BIG ASS CAI im confused. Nice numbers though


----------



## Fastboy501 (Aug 28, 2006)

where did you get the tubing from?


----------



## Dude Wheres My Jetta (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: Hose4ThisProjectNeeded (1betoven1)*

"bumble bee" hose from an industrial store. Lowes/Home depot does not sell it. Its like drainage hose but more rubbery and flexible. I use 4'', its harder to get in the engine bay than the 3''


----------



## TJet1.8 (Dec 19, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Wow...








3 and 1/2 years later and this thread is still alive








Impressive


----------



## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (veritas137)*









bring it back from the dead
isnt that flap that is being sealed in this pic for cold starts?


----------



## SnowGTI2003 (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (VR)*

No. That flap opens if the main air source gets blocked.


----------



## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (SnowGTI2003)*

so it serves no purpose?


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

no, its purpose is to open if the main air source is blocked (ie no air to suck up).


----------



## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

will this open at idle or only if the opening in the airbox is blocked someway, i understand what you are saying I just dont see the point in blocking it off or sealing it up


----------



## pressed (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (SnowGTI2003)*

Interesting, I also thought it was for cold starts. But that does make more sense.


----------



## Chubbs'Dub (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (pressed)*

It is to help prevent hydrolock; if the engine begins to pull a large amount of water in, the pressure in the airbox will drop and that flap will open - hopefully preventing the water from making it to the engine.


----------



## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (pressed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pressed* »_Interesting, I also thought it was for cold starts. But that does make more sense.


just to explain myself, on my 97 2.0 gti the flap in the airbox was controlled by vacum and it opened to allow warm air from the engine during cold starts
at least i thought it did


----------



## initialGLI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Gatorfreak)*

nice


----------



## 1.8tizzle (May 22, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (initialGLI)*

back from the dead indeed.


----------



## m-dub2.0 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (pressed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pressed* »_Interesting, I also thought it was for cold starts. But that does make more sense.

Me too, Like my old Mk2


----------



## nAteKnVB (May 7, 2006)

do you have to have a cai or any intake before you can do this mod? due to like spacing or anything of that matter?


----------



## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

*Re: (nAteKnVB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nAteKnVB* »_do you have to have a cai or any intake before you can do this mod? due to like spacing or anything of that matter?


no


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

going back to my cai now







i miss the sound lol. im sure in 2 months ill switch back to my shaved box w/ itg


----------



## nAteKnVB (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (VR)*

anyone to help me with this in the boerne/san antonio area?


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

help with what? im in killeen


----------



## nAteKnVB (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (beachball6)*

help installing this custom box


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

im confused.
all you do is take out your stock box(3 screws i think)
shave\break everything that isnt flat.
reinstall


----------



## nAteKnVB (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (beachball6)*

can you just drop in a k&n air filter in the box? also is ther a noise difference?


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

yes, and no noise change


----------



## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

*Re: (beachball6)*

you will have a noise change if you remove the pointless inlet tube which i did, the one that goes to the headlight backing


----------



## nAteKnVB (May 7, 2006)

*Re: (VR)*

so since, i really dont want to buy a cai, does anyone live in the s.a./boerne tx. area to help me out with this box? i know that if i try to do it myself, i'm bound to screw something up. plez help me out


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

*Re: (nAteKnVB)*

check out the south forum. someone local should help you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## wolfsburg21 (Sep 4, 2006)

umm...this may sound dumb. but what is ITG?


----------



## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfsburg21* »_umm...this may sound dumb. but what is ITG?

It is the name of a company that manufactures foam air filters. Euro Sport Accessories sells 'em.


----------



## maxxr5287 (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: (The Kilted Yaksman)*

ITG better than K&N?


----------



## Village_Idiot (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: (maxxr5287)*

I did something simmilar to this, without the front feeds because I still have a side mount in the way, but it made a huge difference between just an open element and this:
I grabbed a K&N cone filter
roof flashing ($5), adhesive backed insulation($15), and aluminum insulation tape ($5) from home depot. As well as I used door gaurds from pepboys to hide the really sharp edges.
Wrapped the filter in one layer of roof flashing.
then two layers of insulation
followed by another layer of roof flashing
pics:
































i did this after running just the cone filter for the last 10k miles. i noticed a huge increase in pull at high rpms and high speeds. I think the cold air feeds would be another great increase, yet I need to get a front mount first then were in good shape.
just figured id share


----------



## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

*Re: (maxxr5287)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxxr5287* »_ITG better than K&N?


itg have not been known to destroy the 1.8T mass air flow sensor as the k&n has because of the oil on the k&n 
the itg is a foam element with no oil
i just ordered my itg panel filter and rubber floor mats from parts4vws http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by VR at 1:30 PM 11-24-2006_


----------



## maxxr5287 (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: (VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR* »_

itg have not been known to destroy the 1.8T mass air flow sensor as the k&n has because of the oil on the k&n 
the itg is a foam element with no oil
i just ordered my itg panel filter and rubber floor mats from parts4vws http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by VR at 1:30 PM 11-24-2006_

thanks


----------



## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kode* »_For everyone that swears that a CAI is not worth while on our cars and that the stock airbox can supply enough air needed, I did a test. I have the EVO CAI and I wanted to try out my modfied airbox. I shaved the top of the box, cleared the bottom of it, added a 3.5" expensive hose to the box from the front of the car, and added an ITG. Well guess what, it pounded the EVO into the ground like a fence stake. No more EVO for me. I am only going to show the airmass but the hp is higher as well, by 3 - 5 hp over the EVO from a block 120. 
Stock Box w/ stock filter, smoothed inners = 172 g/s
Stock Box w/ stock filter, smoothed inners, ram hose = 177 g/s
EVO CAI = 178 g/s
Stock Box w/ ITG, smoothed inners, ram hose = 184 g/s
Read this http://www.autospeed.com/A_0629/page1.html
It was 9vw23yrs (Jorge) and TTSchwing (Steve) that got me to do this and the article written above. I didn't have the tools to go Steve's route, so I made due with what I had.
Stock Box Top








Smoothed Stock Box, used dremel, sand paper, and love








Hose with to much space








Hose with filled in edges using insulation tape, the wire was removed so entrance was smoother later.








Isulation tape from home Depot








Bottom box with edges removed, water gate cut, and engine intake sealed








Front mount hose








Another front mount hose








Notice the wire holding it down under the bumper, gives a smoother entrance, bent horn up for more clearance








Top shot of the godzilla hose









[Modified by Kode, 4:40 PM 1-16-2003]

i did the same thing as here in the early summer but not as nice of a job at the airbox, ( used window sealer foam )ran the hose into that same bumper grille then i installed a bellmouth on it *the bellmouth made a huge difference in this location* what im considering now is using 3" hose w/ an adapter to 2" hose (2" hose going into the airbox) this would create a venturi effect, along w/ the airbell im sure it will add power.


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## g-Know (Apr 30, 2007)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Space9888)*

New to the board and looking to do a oouple simple mods to my girls's 01 Jetta. If possible, can anyone post some photos of what the airbox should look like after it is shaved? The pictures are no longer up and I would like to see what it should look like, as I am a visual learner.








Thanks


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## g-Know (Apr 30, 2007)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (g-Know)*

Just ordered the ITG filter, but I'd still like to see some photos of the process. 
Anyone?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (pressed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pressed* »_Interesting, I also thought it was for cold starts. But that does make more sense.

It is for cold starts, atleast on the mk3's, which is why they have the tube connected to the flap running to the heatshield on the exhaust manifold.


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## methadone (Apr 1, 2005)

back from the dead again?


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## teejay (Jul 19, 2005)

yep.
any way to get the pics from the original diy


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## jettaman18t (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (teejay)*

anyone have any detailed pictures or instructions on how to do this mod? The pictures from the beginning of this thread don't work. If someone could help that would be great. Thanks


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## actng (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (jettaman18t)*

pics please


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: (actng)*

Bump for fixed pics!


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: (actng)*

Bump for fixed pics!


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

as far as i am concerned, those tests look similar to me


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## bekr83 (May 17, 2006)

*Re: (jettaman18t)*

are you asking how to shave the inside on your stock airbox?


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (bekr83)*

OMG I'll see if I can find some pics it has been like 3 computers ago...


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## methadone (Apr 1, 2005)

Damn, this cat only has 9 lives...


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## pinteraje (Aug 11, 2007)

*Re: (methadone)*

Is this thread still alive?
I hope it is, cause I want to see the pictures too.
Also, just wondering where I can get a nice flexible air hose. Anybody?


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (pinteraje)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pinteraje* »_Is this thread still alive?

R u kidding man, it's the f'n Holy Grail!








Perf shop will be installing and pre/post dyno-ing this 'no-oil' CAI manana, will post results:


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Billsbug)*

that design is the best of both worlds http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (Seanathan)*

Bit of a hiccup, this CAI is sized for the 225hp TT, I hafta get the adaptor to fit my MAF.


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## frag85 (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Billsbug)*

interesting. i hit almost the same numbers. guess its back to the modded stock w/ ITG.
this is what i got:
Stock Box w/ stock filter, smoothed inners = 174 g/s
Carbonio CAI = 177 g/s
i just wanted the CAI for the DV sound. (edit: also because all results i found before buying the CAI, numbers were practically the same so i wasn't expecting any gains) 
another 6-7 g/s would be better breathing, but won't trim down your track times anywhere close to significantly.
mods: APR 93, APR 3" TB, Carbonio, stock N75


_Modified by frag85 at 4:45 PM 9-18-2007_


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## airdbeck23 (May 25, 2004)

*Re: (frag85)*

damn, long thread. I was thinking of this mod as well. Had one question though. I did away with my stock box and the "plumbing" parts, Dunno how else to describe it. Do i need the plastic ducting as well as the box or just the box? thanks


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## frag85 (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (airdbeck23)*

the most airflow is when you take the stock airbox, smooth out the internals, and run a 3+" tube down into the bumper, where a CAI sits. you are just replacing the stock plumbing that hooks up just behind the headlight to the air box. you should just need the box.


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## spa_bg79 (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

can u rehost the pictures, they are all gon. plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (spa_bg79)*

Bump for fixed pics.


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## ullbsory1.8t (Apr 9, 2006)

Im interested in doing this but the pics arent workin for the modded airbox. I woas wondering if you can post them up again. and where can I get a ITG Filter from???


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## ullbsory1.8t (Apr 9, 2006)

oh and Kode what are your mods when you ran a 14.0 @ 102mph???


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## Stud.McSavage (Sep 22, 2007)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

Someone update the pics, I wanna do this


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## TXR32 (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Stud.McSavage)*

There is another DIY about this with good pictures still hosted from a NE Dub forum...I don't recall the name of them but do a google search...you should be able to find it and I do recall you having to join their message boards in order to view the thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Still A DSMer (Sep 11, 2007)

I did some searching and found this:
http://www.geocities.com/bora_we/cai.htm
Looks good to me.


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## Ill Ave Dub (May 23, 2007)

*Re: (Still A DSMer)*

I want to do this....Pics please!!!


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## Still A DSMer (Sep 11, 2007)

Click the link above. Nice clear pictures for you.


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## RIVWMKIV (May 27, 2004)

*Re: (Still A DSMer)*

AHAHAHA this thread is over 5 years old!!!


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## johnboy07 (May 18, 2008)

*Re: (RIVWMKIV)*

bringing this back from the dead any one way we can get the pictures back up on the front page please.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (johnboy07)*


_Quote, originally posted by *johnboy07* »_bringing this back from the dead any one way we can get the pictures back up on the front page please.

its pretty self explainitory. Just cut holes and smooth out the ridges on the bottom of the box.


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## johnboy07 (May 18, 2008)

I like pictures to helps a little bit but I do understand the gist of everything.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (johnboy07)*

the bottom of the box has a grid pattern on it. You just take a grinder or something else to remove the 2-3mm tall grid. You then take a 1" or similar hole bit and drill out a handful of holes.


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## vdubracing42000 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

for some reson the picks won't show for some reson I want do this but i need a vishual of at least the finised one thanks


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## vdubracing42000 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

If you could fix the photo's it would help alot i'm trying to do something like this and would really like to see yours you can e mail them to me at [email protected] just the J is a capatol


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## trogolodyte (Aug 30, 2008)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

The pictures for this DIY on airbox smoothing have been deleted or I cant view them for some reason, can you post them again???? Cheers


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_the bottom of the box has a grid pattern on it. You just take a grinder or something else to remove the 2-3mm tall grid. You then take a 1" or similar hole bit and drill out a handful of holes.


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_the bottom of the box has a grid pattern on it. You just take a grinder or something else to remove the 2-3mm tall grid. You then take a 1" or similar hole bit and drill out a handful of holes.

_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_the bottom of the box has a grid pattern on it. You just take a grinder or something else to remove the 2-3mm tall grid. You then take a 1" or similar hole bit and drill out a handful of holes.

_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_the bottom of the box has a grid pattern on it. You just take a grinder or something else to remove the 2-3mm tall grid. You then take a 1" or similar hole bit and drill out a handful of holes.

it's not rocket science people...if you can't figure this out you should probably keep the hood closed.


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## forzamotorsport9 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: For all you CAI haters out there. (Kode)*

do you still have the pics?


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## OG'sGLI (Jan 5, 2011)

BUMP for working pictures OR working links - dayum


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

LOL buy a ebay cai for $40 shipped and be done with it. how cheap can u get!:laugh:opcorn:


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Holy sh!t... A thread from 8 yrs ago Batman!


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Holy sh!t... A thread from 8 yrs ago Batman!


x2, made me laugh for the day


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## whabash090 (Aug 10, 2004)

Can anyone else weigh in on sources of 3 or 3.5 inch tubing for this project? I don't want to buy 25 feet.


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## Granite_State (May 20, 2013)

Bump because Im looking for a project to do on my day off (Monday) and this is perfect. If there are any pics or vids out there it would be greatly appreciated. Did a gutted airbox in my old car (pontiac bonneville) but this seems slightly more complicated.


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Granite_State said:


> complicated.


:facepalm:



cincyTT said:


> the bottom of the box has a grid pattern on it. You just take a grinder or something else to remove the 2-3mm tall grid. You then take a 1" or similar hole bit and drill out a handful of holes..


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## Granite_State (May 20, 2013)

Shaving the airbox is not what I'm talking about. It's the ducting. I'm just not sure how far to run it...And I'm just gonna figure it out on my own because those pics are never coming back.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Route the duct from the airbox inlet to the lower bumper grille. You'll need about 3 ft of ducting. 

Pictured is a 4" duct feeding air to my cone filter. 4" requires a lot of trimming so I recommend 3". 3" will also fit the airbox inlet perfectly 

Hope this helps


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## A-RAM (Dec 19, 2013)

Photos are all missing! Can anybody post their pictures from this diy?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

A-RAM said:


> Photos are all missing! Can anybody post their pictures from this diy?


No


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## A-RAM (Dec 19, 2013)

Oh ok. Thanks then. :facepalm:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

dude....you're asking for photos from 10 years ago....


you :facepalm:


use your brain.


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## A-RAM (Dec 19, 2013)

Yo a brotha gotta try dawg!


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