# Group A questions....



## debaser (Nov 30, 2001)

If I put a group A gasket on my RD, what kind of hp/comp gains will I see, and will I need to do something about cooling it?


[Modified by debaser, 10:46 PM 2-7-2002]


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (debaser)*

What is differnt about the Group A headgasket from the stock one? Specifics, details?


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## debaser (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

http://platinumeuroparts.safeshopper.com/1932/15.htm?285 
"Originally used as a racing part by Volkswagen Motorsport, this is a high strength gasket suitable for any race engine. Autotech has found this gasket to be the perfect street upgrade for low-compression (8.6:1) engines. The thinner compressed thickness raises the compression ratio on an 81 mm bore JH motor (used in the Rabbit GTi) from 8.6:1 to approximately 9.4:1! The increased compression boosts torque and responsiveness. Fits all 1.8 liter engines, including 16V. 83mm max. bore. 1.4mm thickness compressed."


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (debaser)*

Does anyone know what the compressed thichness of a stock head gasket is? Based on the CR difference numbers claimed on the Platinum Europarts site, I calculated that this gasket must be 1.0mm thinner than the stock gasket. They say this gasket has a compressed thickness of 1.4mm that would make the stock gasket 2.4mm or almost 1/10" and that seems WAY too thick too me, those numbers can't possibly be right. Anybody out there have numbers that make sense?


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

I agree completely, it does not add up. When calculating the compression ratio of an 83 GTI head on it's original block after a port and polish job which included unshrouding the valveseats and polishing the combustion chamber i calculated that a 2mm head shave would raise the compression ratio from 8.5:1 to around 9.85:1. I used a compressed gasket thickness of 1.5mm and a head gasket volume of 7.73cc. Piston volume was 22.5cc and head volume was 29cc. Based on all these measurements, in order to get a compression change from 8.5 to 9.4 you would have to shave about 1.5mm of the gasket. Kinda hard when the stock one is about 1.5mm compressed to begin with. Even if the gasket was thicker you would still have to shave 1.5mm or so to get 9.4.


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## 2035cc16v (May 18, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

you calculated wrong


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## euroMk2 (Jan 21, 2002)

*Re: Group A questions.... (2035cc16v)*

I'm intrested in this. Could this head gasket be used on a 86Gti 8v? Is it worth the effort?


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (2035cc16v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]you calculated wrong[HR][/HR]​I don't think so, please enlighten me. BTW, I just measured an old head gasket off of my JH, its a felpro aftermarket gasket, it's 1.65mm thick so, the 1.4mm group A gasket would bump the CR from 8.5:1 up to a whopping 8.67:1. IMHO, that's a rip off.


[Modified by ABA Scirocco, 6:04 PM 2-8-2002]


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (2035cc16v)*

If I calculated wrong could you atleast provide some info to back up your opinion, otherwise it's useless.


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## lotus7 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (debaser)*

IIRC, 0.8:1 increase.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (lotus7)*

Well we already know that's what they claim if you have been following the thread, but I'm saying it doesn't add up so if you can show how it does or doesn't then that would be helpful.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

I'd love to believe that you could get a 0.8 cr increase just by changing the head gasket but, I've tried everything I could to make those numbers work but, I don't come anywhere close to the increases claimed in the ad. Either there's a piece of information missing or someone's lying. If I'm wrong PLEASE prove it to me with details.


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

My friend's brother has an 85 GTI and he has a Group A in his car, he said out of all the mods, cams, dual down, exaust, the head gasket made the biggest difference, in "seat of the pants" feel.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

You notice how all the nay sayers haven't provided any proof or specs or calculations. Hmmm. I guess they are in that category of believing everything they read in advertising.


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

hmmm Im not quite sure what you were trying to say, but I dont need to do the calculations, I drove his car before the head gasket swap and then I drove it after and it was noticibly faster. So really I couldnt give a rats ass weather the calculations add up or not, it made the car faster.....


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

Autotech sells these headgaskets also...


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

You are their perfect customer, a marketers wet dream. Ignorance is bliss.








Autotech claims a .9mm increase in compression from 8.5 to 9.4 but I'm pretty sure the ad just regurgitates what Hor tech tells them. Still nothing in my catelogs to back it up.


[Modified by A1Rocco, 4:58 AM 2-13-2002]


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

What catalogs? WTF are you talking about???? Dude IT DOES MAKE THE CAR FASTER!!!! Reputable companies such as autotech would not sell somthing that does not work. Why the hell would they claim somthing they cant back up, I mean damn*! Ask anybody who has it in their car and they will tell you that it makes it faster, what about that cant you understand!







my rant is over, nothing personal...


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

Dude, you're missing the point, someone is BS'ing us and we want to know who and how.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

Autotech has a catalog with a picture of head gaskets and listings for several different ones including the Group A but it says nothing more about it then what was mentioned above. It is supposed to have a compressed thickness of 1.4mm. If that is correct then the stock gasket would have to have a compressed thickness of somewhere around 2.9 to 3mm thick. Hmm.


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

damit


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## Ralph @ Autotech (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (debaser)*

Hi Guys (Specifically A1Rocco & ABA Scirocco),
Please let me try and clear up some issues that you seem to be having. First, the Group A headgasket IS in fact thinner than the factory head gasket. The number of 1.4mm that we publish is correct. Unfortunately, the Group A head gasket is 1.4mm UNcompressed, our catalog (and thus website) is a typo. The compressed thickness of the Group A gasket is about 1.1mm. All you guys had to do was call us and we would have told you, rather than bashing us. 
The stock headgasket (both 1.8L & 2.0L versions) measure out to 1.9mm UNcompressed and 1.6mm compressed. Please redo your calculations and you will find that the Group A indeed raises the compression ratio as advertised. I use a cylinder displacement of 445.2. Please remember that when you calculate HGV (head gasket volume) you use the bore of the head gasket (83mm in this case) rather than the piston bore of 81mm, a mistake that many people make. Also, a general rule of thumb for head volume on an 8V head is 30cc, although your number of 29cc is probably just fine. 
We saw the increase by doing the math AND felt it seat of the pants, not just what "Hor Technologie regurgitates to us". What does Hor Technologie have to do with this? They don't manufacture the gasket for us nor have they ever. I don't recall ever claiming that we get this gasket from Hor Technologie. This gasket was originally in VW Motorsport's catalog back in the mid to late '80's and now it is specially made for us by their vendor (they only make them 100 pcs. at a time).
For those of you who have this part, I am sure that you can vouch for the performance increase, both on the dyno as well as seat of the pants. While it certainly works on the 10:1 HT/RD 8V motors (most really aren't 10:1 as claimed by VW anyway but that's another story) and 10.5:1 PL 16V motors, unless you are running some good gasoline you may run into a detonation problem. 

We are sorry for the catalog misprint (it happens unfortunately) and will fix it the next time we do a catalog revision. I honestly never caught it before (after all these years) and am glad that it was brought to my attention, as this point was never brought up before. It is just unfortunate that we have to endure bashing because of it.
I hope that all of you have a nice weekend.
Kind Regards,
Ralph Hollack
Director of Operations
Autotech Sport Tuning Corp.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

Ralph, go back, read my post again, I never bashed Autotech. I said that the info in your ad may have come from Hor. That hardly equates to bashing you, infact it is another way of saying that you may not be responsible for any missinformation. Your impression of bashing is entirely your own. I have done business with Autotech is the past, use Autotech stuff, have recommended you to others and hope to use your products again in the future. I have found you guys to be nothing but helpful, friendly and reliable. Lets keep it that way, shall we.
My reference to Hor in the post about your catalog ad was a half mistake. In my catalog the 1.6L Group A headgasket is quoted as being manufactured by Hor and has the same 1.4mm compressed thickness. When I refered to my catalog and reading quickly I mistook the info for the 1.6L gasket for the info for the 1.8L gasket which indeed is from VWMotorsport and also states a 1.4mm compressed thickness. I apologize for the oversite.
Nevertheless it is the inacurate report of quoted numbers that lead to this intire discussion and it was our attempt through that discussion to have someone provide proof or additional information to clarify the issue. In that attempt I feel we have succeeded. Our(my) original ascertion that the numbers were incorrect and/or did not add up was correct and I thank you for replying here and providing the corrections.
James.
PS. I look forward to plugging in these new numbers to my calculations and seeing how the compression ratios change. It may serve to provide more accurate calculations on paper in the future. 
I also used a CD of 445.22cc's. I may need to recalculate the HGV. My Head Volume ws calculated by cc'ing my head after it was unshrouded.

[Modified by A1Rocco, 2:14 AM 2-23-2002]


[Modified by A1Rocco, 2:31 AM 2-23-2002]


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Ralph @ Autotech)*

Lately, the tuners seems to be here in force. I'm sure that many read the Vortex, but lately there seems to be WAY more participation, very cool. Thanks for the info, Ralph. 
As the gasket has a bore of 83mm, I assume that makes it compatible with the 82.5mm bore of the 2liters. Any flaws in that logic? 
Interestingly, compressed hg thickness of a stock vs group A gasket is 1.6mm-1.1=.5mm as per your post. This equates to .020" and I still find it very difficult to believe that .020" is going to yield the compression gains mentioned in the catalog. Granted, I probably shouldn't get too hung up on these #s, it's intuitive that a thinner gasket will in fact yeild more compression and I don't doubt the group A gasket does this, but it's unsettling to not know how much of a bump you'd end up with. 
For instance, my ABA based motor had .030" shaved off of the head when it was rebuilt. Several different sources have calculated that my compression, assuming the ABA is truly a 10:1 motor, is now 10.4:1. Ultimately, I'd like to see around 11:1 and had considered using the Autotech group A gasket to accomplish this. Now if the ABA compression is actually 9.6:1 as Bentley (and only Bentley) states, I could be in the 10:1 area and that group A gasket, if it really offers another .8-.9 point of compression, would do exactly what I need. 
And I've considered taking the ABA 3 layer hg apart, removing the middle layer and using the upper and lower layer to create a cheap yet thinner 2 layer gasket. Dunno if I'd trust that , however. 
Ralph, do you feel that the Autotech Group A gasket has a place in my motor based upon the above ramblings? I'd love to hear from you/Autotech on this if so.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Andrew Stauffer)*

I'd have to agree Andrew, I figure the .5mm thinner gasket would give approx. a .35 pt. bump in compression raising an 8.5 GTI to 8.85:1 You would have to more then double that to get to 9.4:1.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

Ralph, I appreciate your attempt to clear things up but, even with the revised numbers, the math still doesn't work. I calculate an increase of .36 pts
Just in case anybody wants to check my math here are the numbers I used.
Cylinder displacement 445.22
head chamber volume 30.00
Deck volume 20.71 (Calculated from listed stock CR of 8.5:1)
Gasket volume 
@1.1mm thickness 5.95
@1.6mm thickness 8.66



[Modified by ABA Scirocco, 11:41 PM 2-22-2002]


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

Just face it, it works, the dude wouldnt waste his time with you fools if he was lying. I wish I had a dyno so that I could do a before and after test










[Modified by eurozex, 7:14 AM 2-24-2002]


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

Dude, you're still missing the point completely. I'm not saying these things don't work, there's just something funky with the numbers and I want an explanation that makes sense.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

eurozex,
with that sort of logic you prove absolutely nothing except that you are willing to believe the hype without any proof. I never said there wouldn't be a change either, just not what is being advertised. I don't blindly choose to believe advertising hype if it doesn't ad up. As we said before, of course the thinner head gasket will chsnge the compression, just not the amount that is claimed. And if you had a dyno to prove the change it still wouldn't address what we are talking about, which is "how much the compression is actually being changed".
And coming from you being called a "fool" is quite laughable, as it is you who is accepting without facts. That pretty much defines the term.
It was nice of Ralph to post here but i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to respond back to the above questions. I have to wonder in the first place how he new about the topic thread and why he replied without an explanation of their math. I guess he wanted to protect the companies image, but as I said in my post above, I don't have a problem with Autotech, just the numbers they are claiming. So lets see some math. (eww, that sounds exciting)


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*








quite laughable, yes

Main Entry: fool 
Pronunciation: 'fül
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French fol, from Late Latin follis, from Latin, bellows, bag; akin to Old High German bolla blister, balg bag -- more at BELLY
Date: 13th century
1 : a person lacking in judgment or prudence
2 a : a retainer formerly kept in great households to provide casual entertainment and commonly dressed in motley with cap, bells, and bauble b : one who is victimized or made to appear foolish : DUPE
3 a : a harmlessly deranged person or one lacking in common powers of understanding b : one with a marked propensity or fondness for something <a dancing fool> <a fool for candy>
4 : a cold dessert of pureed fruit mixed with whipped cream or custard 
No no my friend this is the definition of "fool" my harmlessly deranged person lacking in common powers of understanding.... 
[Modified by eurozex, 5:25 AM 2-25-2002]


[Modified by eurozex, 5:27 AM 2-25-2002]


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

Okay, okay, eurozex has a dictionary AND he can prove it. 
I agree, it will work, but the numbers don't add up. So, if I add this gasket to my motor, and have the pistons hit the valves(big cam, shaved head, not much room in there and we'd be decreasing piston/valve clearance further with a thinner gasket), will I then be happy that I took the "just face it, it works, the dude wouldnt waste his time with you fools if he was lying?" appproach. See why it's important to me? Or, giving Ralph and Autotech the benefit of the doubt, what will my compression ratio ultimately be? Unstreetable on pump gas? My circumstances are somewhat unique and definitely outside the stock motor parameters, but nothing that hasn't been done about a 1000 times before. Never the less, answers are tough for me to come by. 
There are too many variables (for me) with this gasket, too much remains unexplained. Granted, I may have *nothing* to worry about, but I can't risk it.


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## Ralph @ Autotech (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Andrew Stauffer)*

Hi Guys,
I see that you guys have been hard at work this weekend. 
First off, A1Rocco must have a really old Autotech catalog (5-10 yrs. old) if it still has a listing for the 1.6L Group A headgasket, which in fact was manufactured by Hor Technologie. E-mail or call us and we will mail you a newer version. As far as the misinformation goes, I take complete credit/blame for this screw-up. You guys have caught us with our pants down, no question about it.
I too have rerun the numbers this morning and the calculations that some of you have posted are absolutely correct (or at least what I came up with). I used a cylinder displacement is 445.22, piston volume of 20.71, head volume of 30 and head gasket volume of 5.95 for the Group A which does not turn out to be 9.4:1 as we/VW Motorsport claim and for that I sincerely apologize. For those of you who are new and don't know how to calculate the compression ratio, here is the formula:
CD (Cylinder Displacement) + PV (Piston Volume) + HV (Head Volume) + HGV (Head Gasket Volume) divided by PV + HV + HGV
How the individual items are calculated is beyond the scope of this discussion but I am sure that some of the regular posters here will inform if someone is truly interested.

We have sold this gasket from VW Motorsport since the late '80's (before my time at Autotech) and relied on their information as well as our internal calculation that was done at the time when we first imported them. Obviously, someone at Motorsport in Germany as well as someone here both botched it up. I should have run the numbers when I started back in 1993 to verify. Even if the piston volume and head volume are a few CC's different (and they certainly can be), it still does not make up the difference.
It is really ironic that a part that we (and others) have sold hundreds of for 15 years and this question never came up before. While the head gasket does increase compression, it does not raise it to the level advertised. We will change the website immediately and revamp the specifications the next time we do a catalog revision. It is good that some of you do question what you read, otherwise mistakes like this would never be found.
As far as A1Rocco not holding his breath, you should have because here I am. I originally posted at 5 p.m. on Friday afternoon, I have a wife and family and don't wish to spend my weekends in front of a computer if I could possibly help it (especially when it's 80+ degrees outside). If that looks like I am hiding from you because I don't post immediately, well that is your own opinion. Not that it is important to the issue, but how I found out about this thread was that someone e-mailed me Friday morning and said there had been some recent discussion about the gasket on the 8V forum. If I was truly worried about protecting Autotech's "image" I wouldn't be here now, would I? I know we are wrong and not only did I admit it, I have apologized for it. Anyone who knows me knows that I am straight up guy who readily admits when he is wrong. What do you want me to do? I can't change the past, all I can do is change for the future which is what I have pledged to do.
For Mr. Stauffer, yes the gasket has a bore of 83mm which would make it compatible with a piston bore of 82.5mm. Unfortunately, this gasket will not work on the long rod ABA block. The water/steam holes don't line up. It will work on the JH/HT/RD, etc. 8V blocks, the early Audi 80 2.0L block (3A) and both 1.8 and 2.0 16V blocks. I can't comment on what the actual measured compression ratio is on an ABA, but we have scratched our heads on the HT/RD motors that VW claimed were 10:1 when we were seeing 9.6/9.7:1. Than again, don't trust our numbers, we screwed up the head gasket calculation, right?
To all of you who have found the error, thank you again for bringing it up and I apologize again for the incorrect information. I won't have time to check this thread again but if anyone has questions please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] and I will try and answer any questions as quickly as possible.
Kind Regards,
Ralph Hollack
Autotech Sport Tuning


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Ralph @ Autotech)*

That's terrific Ralph, thankyou for taking the time to reply and clearing this long winded(I'm letting out my breath) but apparently necessary issue up. I'm sure lots of people will be happy to learn the real numbers and be able to safely factor them in to their expensive engine build ups. I actually wasn't expecting you to reply over the weekend but I thought you might not now because you may have felt like it was a pointless yelling match, which was not my intent.
Yes, I have 2 really old Autotech catalogs which were obtained from California Import Parts here in Vancouver in the early 90's when I was beginning my 2.0L 3A rebuild, and would really like a new catalog as CIP does not sell water cooled stuff any more and I'm dying to see what new goodies you have in there. I'll be e-mailing you for one right away. Also there is no one actively representing Autotech in Vancouver anymore which is sadly missed and many good parts at good prices are not available, like Euro Bumpers, cheap cams, sway bars etc.
Oh, and Eurozex, whatever!















I'd say definition 1, 2a, 3a, 0r 4 could be you.







But thanx for your contribution it did serve definition 2a.

[Modified by A1Rocco, 9:33 PM 2-25-2002]


[Modified by A1Rocco, 9:34 PM 2-25-2002]


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## ArpyArpad (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Ralph @ Autotech)*

"Unfortunately, this gasket will not work on the long rod ABA block. The water/steam holes don't line up. It will work on the JH/HT/RD, etc. 8V blocks, the early Audi 80 2.0L block (3A) and both 1.8 and 2.0 16V blocks. "

dont people use the 2.0 16v gasket on the ABA conversion so wouldnt this apply?


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (debaser)*

Ralph, you do yourself and Autotech credit being so forthright. Thank you.


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

Amen, thanks for that, Ralph.


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## pushme (Feb 26, 2002)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Andrew Stauffer)*

group a gaskets use more metal
tuffa'


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## debaser (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Ralph @ Autotech)*

Hey all,
I have been a fly on the wall for this conversation, not being terribly knowledgable about the whole issue. Many thanks to ABA, Andrew, and A1 for thier number crunching, and huge props to Ralph for being forthright and honest about the mistake. I will order one from Autotech as soon as I get to that point on my project car. 
Cheers and


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## citat3962 (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Ralph @ Autotech)*

Auto Tech Can take it.....I'm THOUROUGHLY Impressed !
If my new buddy Ralph here took the time to step up and tell us what's up then I think he's just earned my bussiness more often....I bought several parts from auto tech and I think They were the most helpful out of every tuner I've called so far (short of my engine builder http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ). I believe I will make my future engine mods Autotech!
MMM 2.1L conversion for my ABA and a big dollup of buttah.......


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## citat3962 (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Ralph @ Autotech)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Hi Guys,
I see that you guys have been hard at work this weekend. 
*Always* 
(especially when it's 80+ degrees outside). 
[HR][/HR]​OH SURE YOU LUCKY GIT RUB IT IN!!














80+ I scoff!!


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

"Oh, and Eurozex, whatever! 
I'd say definition 1, 2a, 3a, 0r 4 could be you. But thanx for your contribution it did serve definition 2a."
Well since the childish instults have begun.....nice car a1rocco http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif see you on the track








My apologies, thats what i would be saying if I was a childish brat chough chough a1rocco chough chough..... anyways I NEVER said your calcs were wrong, I never said autotecs were right, I mearly said that I belived that the gasket worked, before I didnt get the point now you dont get it








BTW, Ralph thanks for taking the time to clear up the calcs, Ill be putting that Group A on soon....







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


[Modified by eurozex, 12:39 AM 2-27-2002]


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

Ah, now I get it, you're a 19 year old porn star, my apologies.


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

sure i am http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I sure YOU have seen my movies!! hahah that was a good one... ok im done with this i have nothing personal aginst anyone here, i like a good argument.


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## debaser (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (eurozex)*

Could we please lock this thread before it degenerates into more of a dick waveing contest?


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## john green (Aug 4, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (debaser)*

This was an interesting thread to say the least. I am happy to see that Ralph addressed the forum the way he did. I am a little disappointed though...I was hoping that my CR would be closer to what was advertised. Oh well, what are you going to do?...next time I need to do a head gasket, I might just shave the head a bit and use the GRP A gasket. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (john green)*

John, 
While the Group A headgasket may not accomplish what you need, there are other options. Specifically, copper headgaskets. 
You'll most commonly find these used in a thicker than stock form to lower compression for high boost turbo motors, but thinner than stock headgaskets can be had to raise compression. Check out http://www.gasketworks.com, they have them in many thickness' for .022 to .125" 
Considering what I've learned from Ralph, this looks to be the option I will persue when the head needs to come off again.


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## john green (Aug 4, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Andrew Stauffer)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks, Andrew! ...that link isn't working for me, though?




[Modified by john green, 8:09 AM 2-27-2002]


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (john green)*

Sorry John. Try this one, I was just there to make sure it worked: http://headgasket.com/


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (debaser)*

hahah he said "dick waving"
"/waving dick wildly in the air/"


[Modified by eurozex, 6:59 AM 2-28-2002]


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## john green (Aug 4, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (Andrew Stauffer)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Sorry John. Try this one, I was just there to make sure it worked: http://headgasket.com/ [HR][/HR]​ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (john green)*

How much have any of you guys shaved the head for higher compression? I have gone as far as 2mm's on a friends 83 GTI. I figure it bumped it up to about 9.85:1. Used a stock headgasket and had no problems. This was pretty much the max. that was recommended to me by a few poeple up here who had experience.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

9.85 huh, so that would be what 21cc chambers? You can shave off a bit more than that, I've seen a 1.6L big valve head shaved down to where it had 17cc chambers, I haven't done the math but visually it looks like at least 21/2 - 3mm, the lip around the front of the head is almost gone.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

I have heard rumors of up to 2.5mm but it makes me nervous. Hmmm.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

I'll try get more details, I'll let you know what I find out.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

Have you found out anything yet?


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

No not yet, my guy's kinda cagey about giving up all his secrets but I'm still working on it.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

Oh jeez, that's just silly. It's technical, it's not like he has something nobody has and it wins him races. Well forge on, maybe he'd tell you if he thought you wanted it for your head.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

If you knew the guy, it would make perfect sense. I'm working on it, I'll get there.


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## A2RicedGTI (Aug 8, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (ABA Scirocco)*

What section is the Group A headgasket under on Autotech's site? I cant find it...


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## H2oVento (Mar 18, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (debaser)*

Can this be used on the 2.0 ABA 8v motor? It already has a 10:1 ratio..


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Group A questions.... (H2oVento)*

The Group A Headgaskets are in Section A of the Engine section of the NEW Autotech catalog. They do not list an application for the ABA.


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Group A questions.... (A1Rocco)*

H20Ventor, 
Ralph from Autotech provided the answer in this very thread, fwiw. You need to read closely but it's in there.


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