# Mercedes CLA 250 Review and what it means for Audi



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Here’s the short version: Mercedes is going to sell a lot of CLA 250s in North America. A lot, especially if the first months’ 2,300 units sold is any indication of the potential for this market segment. 

I had the opportunity behind the wheel of a well equipped CLA 250 this afternoon: Navigation, Harmon-Kardon sound, blind spot monitoring, heated seats, dual-zone climate control, auto-dimming mirrors, Homelink, SiriusXM, Multimedia Package, base seating material, sunroof, HID/LED headlamps, 17” wheels, Premium Package. Sticker on the car came to almost $39,000. 

I want to go back to demand for a moment: the car I drove was sold by the time I returned from the test drive, leaving the dealership with just two of their initial launch allotment of 10 CLA 250s after 7 days. Did I mention that today is a rainy Cleveland afternoon when nobody in their right mind is out looking for cars and yet the dealership was packed with the kinds of young professionals Mercedes is trying to court? No joke. Packed. As in: get in line, take a number and hope we don’t sell the demo cars before you get to sit in one. 

I spent 20 minutes poking and prodding at a showroom CLA. First I have to admit that I’ve never been impressed with Mercedes interiors outside of the newer S-Class. The doors have a solid thunk to them, the base faux-leather seating material is no better or worse than that which you find in any modern Audi, BMW, Acura or Honda for that matter. Rear seating, with the fronts set back for my personal setting, is not half as bad as you’d think. It’s snug in the back, don’t get me wrong, and anyone over my 5’9” stature will be rubbing their head on the sloped roof. I’d say it’s a more snug fit than my 8P A3 in terms of width, but for two medium sized adults more than adequate. Besides, the people buying this car will rarely have people in the back, and probably for short hops at that.

The driving position is, well, pretty darned good. Everything has a very nice feel to it with the exception of the HVAC controls which have a cheap-plastic, loosely weighted dial system. Now that said, I hopped into a new C300 on the floor and it had similarly weighted controls. Even the SLS on the floor didn’t have much better in its HVAC, so I’ll chalk this up to a general Benz ‘feature’ which is not unique nor indicative of the CLA being cheapened. Others have commented on the cheap plastic covers on the storage bin and cup holder. Personally, I have no problems because my expectation is that at this price point something has to give. The rest of the dash materials were the usual mix of soft and medium touch plastics – all of them well put together and with a quality feel. The door handles are metal and have a good pull, the rest of the switchgear comfortable.

Now – as to that much maligned, oft griped about ‘stick on’ Navigation system. It’s not as bad in person as in the press materials. Seriously. I’m not saying that I agree with the design implementation, but it’s just not as atrocious as I thought it would be. Graphics and overall responsiveness were good and to Mercedes’ credit, the voice controlled navigation system worked exceptionally well. All in all I would say the interior is no better or worse than a C-Class, with the exception of the very broad swath of very fake looking aluminium patterned trim across the dash. I put it into the same category as the equally tacky looking faux trim used in the current B8 A4. 









Visibility is about what you’d expect from the swoopy design language: poor, especially from the rear. Now that said, were I a designer I would have gladly made this same tradeoff as well. I think that the CLA is a very handsome car, especially with the HID/LED lights. The sunroof is exceptionally well integrated and when open it basically exposes 75% of the cabin and opens 95% of the way. It truly is panoramic, unlike my A3’s OpenSky roof. The power retractable screen is much better implemented than the A3’s and even the Q5 and Q7 in that it is less porous and provides more shade. My only real complaint about the exterior is panel gaps, especially where the A-pillar meets the hood and the side panel: the gaps are much bigger than I’ve seen in a car in ages









I purposely asked to drive the car on less than perfect roads because I wanted to test the suspension above all else. Here’s the quick version: 98% of you will not want to upgrade to the sport package. The stock suspension was plenty firm, the car was tossable enough and was just at the limit of what I consider to be a comfortable ride. I imagine the upcoming AMG CLA45 suspension to be brutal in comparison. 

All in all I found the suspension to be good. Not great, but good enough. My only complaint being that it did not soak up road imperfections as well as I expected. Maybe I’m getting older or am just sick of how my A3 8P crashes over road imperfections with zero compliance and as a result I’m hyper sensitive, but I expected more from a Merc. The steering was, again, good but nothing spectacular.

Engine performance felt well matched to the car, but it was more gruff than any modern VW/Audi 2.0TFSI power plant. Not noticeable in a bad way, just more prevalent than in the engines we’re used to. Nothing spectacular, but nothing bad to say about the engines, either.

As for the transmission I have to first clear the air by saying that I am somewhat of a manual transmission purist and try as I might, I have never been able to make myself enjoy dual clutch/paddle shift transmissions the same way I enjoy a good manual shifter. The Merc’s DCT transmission is nowhere as good as Audi’s S-Tronic. Again, it’s not that it’s a bad transmission, it’s just that it is not as refined as Audi’s. No matter how you cut it, I will always feel a disconnect from the car without a third pedal on the floor.

As the owner of an eight year old A3 with 107,000 miles on the clock just about anything new is going to feel like a million bucks and light years better than my car. During the drive I found the road and wind noise to be well controlled but again, I was expecting better. Not bad, but I didn’t find it that much quieter than my eight year old A3. 

In reality, the CLA felt like a new car, but it really didn’t seem to raise the bar over my present A3. I know that may sound weird, but strip out the lane assist, power seats and LED’s at the front and the two cars felt very similar. The biggest letdown has to be the suspension: it’s not bad, just not good enough. 

So at the end of the day what I can say is this: Mercedes knows who their target audience is and they aimed this product squarely at them. There is nothing terrible about the CLA, but I also didn’t feel like there was anything particularly special about it, either. And at the end of the day, the people who are going to buy this car don’t really care about the details that bugged me, nor performance numbers. The sales people I spoke with commented that they’re not stocking any CLA’s with the Sport package nor with the upgraded leather interior because people in this market space aren’t interested in paying for those items and they’re really trying to keep price points below $40k. 

Clearly the initial sales figures show that there is substantial demand for a car of this type, and if Audi wants to snag a good percentage of this market they’re going to have to be very competitive in their offering. Mercedes is aiming for the brand/badge image market and the exterior design market with great success. Based on what I’ve read so far my guess is that Audi is going to bring a lot of refinement to the table both in terms of fit and finish as well as in the drivetrain. If they can offer competitive option packaging with significantly better overall refinement I think Audi will be very successful with the A3. And since I have the opportunity I will reiterate that it will be very difficult, no matter how well implemented, for me to purchase an A3 without a manual transmission. 

In many ways the CLA 250 and A3 are like an Android v. iPhone comparison: on their own, I feel Androids are perfectly good devices, but once you see and feel the spit and polish that Apple has put into the iPhone, suddenly Androids don’t seem quite so great. I have the feeling we’re going to see the same thing here once consumers get to try the 8V A3 sedan.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I hope MB gets every badge-whore buyer out there with this car. I want Audi to do well with the A3, but I'm hoping their intention isn't to water the brand down with such goals. If I wanted a car for the meaning of the badge, I'd buy a BMW. Let BMW and MB fight for the shallow money.

If I wanted a phone for the meaning of the badge, I'd buy an iPhone.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> I hope MB gets every badge-whore buyer out there with this car. I want Audi to do well with the A3, but I'm hoping their intention isn't to water the brand down with such goals. If I wanted a car for the meaning of the badge, I'd buy a BMW. Let BMW and MB fight for the shallow money.
> 
> If I wanted a phone for the meaning of the badge, I'd buy an iPhone.


This new market-niche is an interesting one because what's evolving is that the mainstream brands are able to introduce cars with much the same feel that was once exclusive to the premiums. The new MK 7 Golf is a great example of this, as is the VW CC, even the new Accord and Mazda 6. So in many ways the premium brands are left with little other than their brand equity to get you to buy into the belief that you're buying something substantially better than the run of the mill equivalent. 

To Audi's credit, they're focusing on the polish and refinement that I think their economies of scale permit better than do Mercedes'. The CLA I drove today was a nice car, and it certainly felt "premium", but it sure didn't feel special - especially in comparison to an eight year old car! What I think the A3 sedan will do for Audi is to give consumers a serious alternative to the other badges out there, mainly Mercedes and BMW. If the A3's refinement is as great as I think it will be (think A6 caliber in the compact class), they're going to grab a lot of sales from Mercedes, especially from those more OCD about fit, finish and things like haptics which are important to me (and make my wife laugh at me). 

I'm curious as to how the compact premium segments shakes out over the next six months when things start to mature more and there's some competition. I think that the 2,300 units sold last month is just the tip of the iceberg for this market, considering that the average transaction price for a new car is now over $30,000: a lot of people will begin stretching a few thousand more to get themselves into the premium bracket.


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## Leke (Jul 29, 2013)

Travis, I think your review of the car is pretty spot on. I had very similar impressions after test driving the car. 

It's funny that you mention the car being sold by the time you came back from your test drive. While at the dealership, my sister decided to forgo building her CLA and instead wanted to put a deposit on an incoming vehicle. In the 5 minutes it took for the sales rep to talk to her manager about our discount, the car had been sold. She ended up ordering a car very similar to what you test drove, except she added the sport package.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Leke said:


> She ended up ordering a car very similar to what you test drove, except she added the sport package.


Our roads in Northeast Ohio are less than stellar and having lived with my A3 with the sport suspension and a slightly stiffened rear stabilizer from H&R I think I'm going to skip that this next go around. Granted, Audi has greatly improved the suspension in the 8V to remedy one of the biggest complaints, lack of ride compliance, but if the CLA's standard suspension is anything to go on, the standard setup is stiff enough.


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## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

Travis I found your review spot on, in general everything i could complain about was alleviated by an optional upgrade, the small screen, the trim or the leather dashboard or the door pins. I also agree that compared to a c class there is no downgrade. Like I said the 4matic version should be the real compare with the a3 and its really for Audi to screw up.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Great review Travis. Funny I live in toronto and I haven't seen one on the road yet. You and I have similar reservations. Having a manual transmission is a big deal for me. I can forgo almost any option but that's not one of them. Maybe just for laughs I'll go out and take the new q50 and CLA for a spin.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

If MB is giving $329 lease with the premium pkg and nav, that's probably why it is flying out the door. I wonder what Audi is going to offer to move the A3, or are they going to let it hang to dry like the 8P A3.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Excellent review Travis, really crystalized the finer points of the car for me. 

So i was down at the OC auto show in Anaheim today. I finally had an extensive sit down in the CLA. The top dash is indeed soft touch material (its harder than the C class, but its still soft touch). The first time when i sat in the car at the dealer i thought it was hard plastic, but i am happy to report that i am wrong on that (so no more ranting about that). The lower dash is definetly hard textured plastic, but thats okay though. Door panels are padded for comfort as well. The cubby door are plastic and stuff, but after seeing that the E class has FAKE CUPHOLDERS :sly::what:, i am not going to bitch about the CLA's interior lol. Its more than adequate for the price. I just need to drive the car and see how i feel. I cant see **** out the rear window though. 

Yeah Mercedes has limited experience with DCT's (VW/Audi bassically invented it!), so i expect there to be hiccups initially. I am sure they will release future software revisions as time goes by. 

I think Audi has a chance here to peel off buyers looking for a more refined experience. If they hit the pricing right, its going to be a fight to the death between MB and Audi (BMW's 228i is really competing for different buyers)...and we, the consumer, will only stand to benefit. The top CLA trims sticker for about 43-44k. That is like new S3 money, if we are to believe Audi's initial pricing estimate.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

02GOLFGTI1.8T said:


> Travis I found your review spot on, in general everything i could complain about was alleviated by an optional upgrade, the small screen, the trim or the leather dashboard or the door pins. I also agree that compared to a c class there is no downgrade. Like I said the 4matic version should be the real compare with the a3 and its really for Audi to screw up.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


Yeah, I haven't spent tons of time in the C-Class, but having one next to the CLA for comparison was great. Obvious things are different in the C versus CLA: more rear legroom, more rear headroom, slightly more shoulder and leg room (noticeable, but not huge). I imagine the biggest difference is in driving dynamics with the C-Class having an overall better suspension setup and slightly better handling characteristics due to the RWD platform. 

Otherwise - the CLA didn't really feel like a step down. Again, Mercedes' products don't do anything for me but I understand why the CLA will be extremely popular. 

As to Audi screwing the pooch on this, I can think of a few ways that is possible. First, Scott Keogh has mentioned recently that he really wants to focus on getting "the right" customers. I've also heard a few whispers that Audi may intend to bring the A3 at a substantially higher base price than Mercedes: $32k. Now, if that $32k price point includes a lot more standard then they'll probably be okay, but unless the A3 is _substantially_ better than the CLA in every tangible way, and unless the A3 packs a lot more for that $32k, they will overplay their hand on this one. 

I don't want Audi to bottom feed in the sub-$30 market, but at the same time they just don't have the same brand image that Mercedes does, try as they might. Let's be clear - for a lot of buyers this will be a badge purchase, and the four rings aren't quite on par with the star just yet.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

kevlartoronto said:


> Great review Travis. Funny I live in toronto and I haven't seen one on the road yet. You and I have similar reservations. Having a manual transmission is a big deal for me. I can forgo almost any option but that's not one of them. Maybe just for laughs I'll go out and take the new q50 and CLA for a spin.


I know I sound like a broken record on the topic but regardless the marketing schtick, there really is something lost when you drop the manual transmission, especially in a smaller sportier car like the A3. 

What I found interesting about the CLA is that outside of the newness of it, the more modern/newer suspension, etc. it really felt _very_ similar to my A3 in all manners. Whether that's a trademark feel of this class or that Audi did such a good job with the 8P A3, or that Mercedes didn't go as far as it could have with the CLA, I cannot say. Maybe I was just expecting a bigger step forward from my current eight year old ride?

One thing I forgot to mention in my little review is the braking on the CLA: it was _excellent._


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

LWNY said:


> If MB is giving $329 lease with the premium pkg and nav, that's probably why it is flying out the door. I wonder what Audi is going to offer to move the A3, or are they going to let it hang to dry like the 8P A3.


Well, considering that the CLA has a **67%** residual, I wouldn't be surprised. The salesperson is going to get back to me on Monday about leasing. Apparently 27 months is their sweet spot right now.

Anyway you cut it, a $329 lease on this car will make it exceptionally popular. Audi will have to jump into the leasing game heavily with the A3 if it intends to move the same kind of volume. Something tells me that they won't do this, which is not a bad thing in my book if the goal is to build brand equity over the longterm.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Going back to the size potential for this market, Mercedes' US chief recently told Automotive News that they're targeting 30,000 CLA sales in North America along with another 30,000 units of the GLA once that is announced.

Audi itself is targeting at least 30,000 sales in this segment. The $30,000+ space is about to get a lot more crowded in the next 18 months.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20131005/RETAIL/310079971/mercedes-aims-for-30000-cla-sales#


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## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

Can't wait for the LA auto show!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

One of the articles I read did say that Merc does expect to cannibalize a potentially significant number of C sales with the CLA. It will be interesting to see how the CLA and C figures net out in the long term.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> One of the articles I read did say that Merc does expect to cannibalize a potentially significant number of C sales with the CLA. It will be interesting to see how the CLA and C figures net out in the long term.


i wouldnt doubt that, but the next C will be more upmarket than the current C and CLA, so there will still be a big enough gulf.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Travis Grundke said:


> As to Audi screwing the pooch on this, I can think of a few ways that is possible. First, Scott Keogh has mentioned recently that he really wants to focus on getting "the right" customers. I've also heard a few whispers that Audi may intend to bring the A3 at a substantially higher base price than Mercedes: $32k. Now, if that $32k price point includes a lot more standard then they'll probably be okay, but unless the A3 is _substantially_ better than the CLA in every tangible way, and unless the A3 packs a lot more for that $32k, they will overplay their hand on this one.
> 
> I don't want Audi to bottom feed in the sub-$30 market, but at the same time they just don't have the same brand image that Mercedes does, try as they might. Let's be clear - for a lot of buyers this will be a badge purchase, and the four rings aren't quite on par with the star just yet.


No way can audi price this car above the CLA250. Even pricing it similar to that car gives Audi a disadvantage, given how much larger the CLA250 is, and it being almost the same size as the A4, people might even compare it to that when cross shopping.
Audi has been bottom feeding the sub $30k market for a while now, with their last entry level A3.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> One of the articles I read did say that Merc does expect to cannibalize a potentially significant number of C sales with the CLA. It will be interesting to see how the CLA and C figures net out in the long term.


Yep, I've read that as well. The $329-$350 target lease figure is exceptionally lucrative and has the potential to really hurt Volkswagen. Imagine the number of people looking at Accords, Camrys, Passats, Jettas, CCs, Malibus and Fusions - all in a similar lease range. For a good percentage of those buyers for whom interior space isn't a major concern, the CLA will look mighty compelling.


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## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

Right now I can't see how someone can justify a cc over the cla...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

02GOLFGTI1.8T said:


> Right now I can't see how someone can justify a cc over the cla...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


Size? For a sporty dad with kids, the CLA might not be big enough.

Just saying...


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

02GOLFGTI1.8T said:


> Right now I can't see how someone can justify a cc over the cla...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


Exactly. The only people buying CCs will be diehards, those demanding a manual transmission or people buying the high-end VR6 Executive models. 

If Volkswagen was concerned about CC sales before they're probably freaking out now.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VWNCC said:


> Size? For a sporty dad with kids, the CLA might not be big enough.
> 
> Just saying...


Good point. The CLA's rear, while accessible, has a narrow+low opening that makes getting in and out tough. 

Regardless though, the CLA is really going to put a lot of pressure on the mainstream automakers like Volkswagen. If I were looking at a CC I would definitely cross shop it with a CLA.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

LWNY said:


> No way can audi price this car above the CLA250. Even pricing it similar to that car gives Audi a disadvantage, given how much larger the CLA250 is, and it being almost the same size as the A4, people might even compare it to that when cross shopping.
> Audi has been bottom feeding the sub $30k market for a while now, with their last entry level A3.


While you could get an 8P below $30,000, a) they weren't that common to find, and b) virtually nobody even knew the A3 existed.

Outside of those of us who follow these things, many in the market will be none the wiser if the 8V checks in at $32,000.

I think what we can write off right now is the 8V leasing well. I expect history to repeat and for it to lease as poorly as other Audis. Maybe we'll be surprised.

... but I also don't think 67% residual on a 27-month CLA lease is anything particularly noteworthy. It's good, sure. When you have cars in the mid-50s at 42 months, it just doesn't sound as impressive. That also isn't a guarantee that values will stabilize that high. Mercedes may be setting themselves up to eat this thing if they overshot it. There's only one way to find out- in December 2015.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> While you could get an 8P below $30,000, a) they weren't that common to find, and b) virtually nobody even knew the A3 existed.
> 
> Outside of those of us who follow these things, many in the market will be none the wiser if the 8V checks in at $32,000.
> 
> ...


67% isn't bad, and it's good for a short term lease. M-B isn't stupid: the real money is made on the back-end with CPO cars. Ever seen a 36 month Audi sell as a CPO on the Audi lot for 55%? 

M-B also has better brand appeal than Audi. a $30k M-B that look slick is something special, especially when the C class is such obvious junk. Audi ha a big lift to break 2000 units a month for a car that ostensibly is a visually identical scaled copy of the next two sedan sizes up the food chain.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

I am still *utterly *astounded that anyone likes the styling on this abomination.










The ultimate brand-whore-mobile.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> 67% isn't bad, and it's good for a short term lease. M-B isn't stupid: the real money is made on the back-end with CPO cars. Ever seen a 36 month Audi sell as a CPO on the Audi lot for 55%?
> 
> M-B also has better brand appeal than Audi. a $30k M-B that look slick is something special, especially when the C class is such obvious junk. Audi ha a big lift to break 2000 units a month for a car that ostensibly is a visually identical scaled copy of the next two sedan sizes up the food chain.


I was thinking BMW with that remark, really. I think VW and Audi have given up on ostensibly improving their lease markets. VW tried it back in 2009 with the 36-month maintenance inclusion, but they seem to be reeling that back in now. The belief at the time was that their sole intention was to help prop up lease residuals. I would like to see Audis lease well as I think that's a near-requirement to compete with BMW.

Merc can sell as many of their mehmobiles as they want. I certainly want Audi to do well, but frankly, I won't be the least bit upset if there aren't a bunch of me-toos on the road. I think Audi's on course to have brand appeal on par with MB in the next few years, but then I don't hold MB in high regard, so my baseline may be a little skewed. For that matter, I don't generally side with US consumers in terms of brand appeal for various things, so I'm probably worthless to most of the badge manufacturers.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> I am still *utterly *astounded that anyone like the styling on this abomination.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It would do well in Texas where it'll look right at home all melted and frumpy like that.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

ChrisFu said:


> I am still *utterly *astounded that anyone like the styling on this abomination.
> The ultimate brand-whore-mobile.


The CLA looks substantially better in person than in photographs. It's not my style but it's definitely an eye catching, modern looking piece of kit, especially with the LED tail lamps. 

I won't comment on the brand-whorishness of the CLA, but as I've argued elsewhere the price point of this car is going to attract a lot of interest for people in the leasing market. The real test of the market will be when the A3 becomes available and people can compare the two side by side. The CLA doesn't feel any cheaper than a C-Class, but it sure doesn't feel very special, either (I don't feel that many Mercedes products do, though, so it's a very subjective thing). 

Remember: the goal for this compact premium market is to introduce younger buyers to the brand and then hopefully keep them there as they move into more expensive, more profitable models over the years

If the A3 comes across as more refined, polished and better equipped than the CLA then I think they stand a great chance in this space. If, on the other hand Audi tries to compete based on brand, image and badge they will, without a doubt, lose. Audi is really pushing to be a tier 1 premium brand, limiting incentives and holding the line on pricing. The conflict they're going to run into is that the business plan dictates moving _a lot_ of metal: IIRC the business case was built around moving close to 30,000 units annually. I don't see how they're going to accomplish that without very competitive packaging, pricing and lease offerings.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

LWNY said:


> No way can audi price this car above the CLA250. Even pricing it similar to that car gives Audi a disadvantage, given how much larger the CLA250 is, and it being almost the same size as the A4, people might even compare it to that when cross shopping.
> Audi has been bottom feeding the sub $30k market for a while now, with their last entry level A3.



I agree with LWNY. While we might like the A3 a lot more than the CLA, the A3 will not do well if it is priced above the CLA250, even if the base A3 is the 2.0TFSI quattro (TBD). The A3 is noticeably smaller and the brand image isn't as strong.

The average consumer will not care about the A3 refinement as long as the CLA is luxurious enough (diminishing of return for the A3 refinement).


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VWNCC said:


> The average consumer will not care about the A3 refinement as long as the CLA is luxurious enough (diminishing of return for the A3 refinement).


And I think this here is the key: the CLA does not lose much in the way of feel compared to the C-Class, so Audi will really have to present something _substantially_ better if they plan to one-up Mercedes on this front. Like I said, Mercedes knows their target market and they built a car to meet those expectations. The CLA is definitely 'good enough', especially when you compare it to a CC, Mazda 6, Accord, A4, Passat or Fusion. 

To Audi's credit they think that technology and technology+automotive integration is their target market and so expect the A3 to highlight things like AudiConnect, Audi Phone Box, LED headlamps, etc. Whether this sells 30,000 A3s annually is yet to be seen, but clearly they think they have a market advantage in the A3's infotainment systems.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> To Audi's credit they think that technology and technology+automotive integration is their target market and so expect the A3 to highlight things like AudiConnect, Audi Phone Box, LED headlamps, etc. Whether this sells 30,000 A3s annually is yet to be seen, but clearly they think they have a market advantage in the A3's infotainment systems.


I don't think it can sell 30,000 A3s alone. I'm torn on whether I think they should establish a more realistic goal and not pander to the bottom of the entry level luxury market (sub-$30,000) or push like all hell for 30,000+ units annually at any cost (flood the market with FWD 1.8T cars at $28,900 or so base).

They have their own internal quandary they have to deal with if they still intend to go with the second option. They have VW to bump against on the lower end, while Mercedes has... nothing. Do you steal volume from the Jetta with the A3 and further cannibalize VW's already faltering sales targets, or do you "take one for the team" and not encroach on VW, thereby potentially reducing your own numbers? I realize they're separately run companies, but they're under the same umbrella; surely this has to be a discussion internally.


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I don't think it can sell 30,000 A3s alone. I'm torn on whether I think they should establish a more realistic goal and not pander to the bottom of the entry level luxury market (sub-$30,000) or push like all hell for 30,000+ units annually at any cost (flood the market with FWD 1.8T cars at $28,900 or so base).
> 
> They have their own internal quandary they have to deal with if they still intend to go with the second option. They have VW to bump against on the lower end, while Mercedes has... nothing. Do you steal volume from the Jetta with the A3 and further cannibalize VW's already faltering sales targets, or do you "take one for the team" and not encroach on VW, thereby potentially reducing your own numbers? I realize they're separately run companies, but they're under the same umbrella; surely this has to be a discussion internally.


Honestly I'm not convinced if the A3 would cannibalize VW sales. Especially if it's priced 30k and up. I don't know of many people who would cross shop a VW and Audi, expect people like us .


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Canthoney said:


> Honestly I'm not convinced if the A3 would cannibalize VW sales. Especially if it's priced 30k and up. I don't know of many people who would cross shop a VW and Audi, expect people like us .


If you can dangle a $329/month lease in front of someone shopping a Jetta, Passat or CC you'd have to REALLY be sold on one of those three cars to pass up an equivalent A3 or CLA.

Keeping in mind that those of us in these discussions don't really count as "the market", there are a lot of people who will jump at the opportunity to move into a premium brand. Cars like this will always get people to stretch above and beyond what they normally would pay if the advantages outweigh the additional cost.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Canthoney said:


> Honestly I'm not convinced if the A3 would cannibalize VW sales. Especially if it's priced 30k and up. I don't know of many people who would cross shop a VW and Audi, expect people like us .


Yeah. I've said that in previous posts, and I still sort of maintain that belief. But if Audi were peppering the commercial breaks with a $28,900 price for the A3, I think you'd see a much larger quantity of VW buyers in the Audi side of the dealership. That's an Audi GLI in every sense. Forget all of that, though; as of right now, Audi has a superior warranty to VW. That's got to be worth something.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> I don't think it can sell 30,000 A3s alone. I'm torn on whether I think they should establish a more realistic goal and not pander to the bottom of the entry level luxury market (sub-$30,000) or push like all hell for 30,000+ units annually at any cost (flood the market with FWD 1.8T cars at $28,900 or so base).
> 
> They have their own internal quandary they have to deal with if they still intend to go with the second option. They have VW to bump against on the lower end, while Mercedes has... nothing. Do you steal volume from the Jetta with the A3 and further cannibalize VW's already faltering sales targets, or do you "take one for the team" and not encroach on VW, thereby potentially reducing your own numbers? I realize they're separately run companies, but they're under the same umbrella; surely this has to be a discussion internally.


As a corporation the VW Group is brutal and actively works to foster lots of competition between brands. So while I'm sure there is coordination between the two groups in North America (they share offices, after all), were I an Audi product planner whose compensation was based on units sold, I'd eat every VW conquest I could get my hands on. 


So back to your original point - it all really depends on what Audi wants to do here: flood the market or, as Keogh has repeatedly stated in recent weeks, get the right kinds of customers and build a tier 1 premium brand image.


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> If you can dangle a $329/month lease in front of someone shopping a Jetta, Passat or CC you'd have to REALLY be sold on one of those three cars to pass up an equivalent A3 or CLA.
> 
> Keeping in mind that those of us in these discussions don't really count as "the market", there are a lot of people who will jump at the opportunity to move into a premium brand. Cars like this will always get people to stretch above and beyond what they normally would pay if the advantages outweigh the additional cost.


Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant that people like us actually know that Audi is a VW Group brand. Most people I talk to don't know that. So when their at a VW dealership it might not be on their mind. But yeah if the lease is enticing enough people would compare and contrast different brands. But you also have to look at would I rather take the flagship car of the lower brand? (In this case the CC for sedans at least) or the lowest model of the next brand up? I would personally take a CC V6 or at least an S3.


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> In many ways the CLA 250 and A3 are like an Android v. iPhone comparison: on their own, I feel Androids are perfectly good devices, but once you see and feel the spit and polish that Apple has put into the iPhone, suddenly Androids don’t seem quite so great. I have the feeling we’re going to see the same thing here once consumers get to try the 8V A3 sedan.


I liked the review....but then you lost me here. Apple to me has always seemed like the "I bought this to be different, not better, crowd" There have always been so many things that androids did far better than any I-phone. 
Sure the first one broke some new ground. All of the models since then provide less screen size, less features, higher price, less functionality, and then has everyone put them in these huge cases. You might as well have bought a $10 phone.
IMO android > i-phone


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Cyncris said:


> I liked the review....but then you lost me here. Apple to me has always seemed like the "I bought this to be different, not better, crowd" There have always been so many things that androids did far better than any I-phone.
> Sure the first one broke some new ground. All of the models since then provide less screen size, less features, higher price, less functionality, and then has everyone put them in these huge cases. You might as well have bought a $10 phone.
> IMO android > i-phone


Let's be honest with ourselves, though. Pre-ICS Android absolutely lacked the polish of iOS. These days, it's about a wash.

I like Apple's (almost) relentless pursuit of good UI/UX form. That's about where it stops for me.

... I do have to say I'm glad Apple exists, though, as they spawn people like Tony Fadell, who took his "less is more" training from Apple and started Nest.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

So, I just heard back from the Mercedes dealer on lease figures for a CLA 250. With an MSRP of $39,395 and a selling price of $39,395 the car comes out to $570.80/month for 36 months with $1,500 total out of pocket. This includes all fees and taxes (8.00% sales tax in Cuyahoga County, Ohio), tier one credit. 

This is with absolutely no negotiation. Take it for what it's worth.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

hmmmm :what:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> So, I just heard back from the Mercedes dealer on lease figures for a CLA 250. With an MSRP of $39,395 and a selling price of $39,395 the car comes out to $570.80/month for 36 months with $1,500 total out of pocket. This includes all fees and taxes (8.00% sales tax in Cuyahoga County, Ohio), tier one credit.
> 
> This is with absolutely no negotiation. Take it for what it's worth.


That seems like a lot, but I'm not particularly level on lease terms. Is that a good lease rate? I have to assume that "without negotiation," they're packing the money factor- even with tier one credit.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> That seems like a lot, but I'm not particularly level on lease terms. Is that a good lease rate? I have to assume that "without negotiation," they're packing the money factor- even with tier one credit.


Yeah, I'm not a leasing person so I have no idea how anything was factored, other than the price including fees, taxes, and selling the car at sticker. I'm sure he was hoping that I'd be a laydown for THAT kind of deal.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Turning back to sales figures (again), Mercedes clarified today that they are aiming for 60,000 units annually for the CLA and forthcoming GLA:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ned-annual-sales-for-cla-and-gla-in-u-s-alone

I'm not certain if Audi's 30k figure is based on combined A3 + Q3 sales but it again goes to reinforce the belief that this market is going to become very crowded and potentially very lucrative in the near future.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

It's an exciting time to watch this segment, that's for sure. If Audi's figure is inclusive of the Q3 range as well, I think it's reasonable to assume it's in alignment with Scott's (he's on a first-name basis as much as we've been mentioning him, right?  ) insinuation that they're going after brand prestige rather than brand volume- at least when compared to Mercedes' 60,000-unit figure.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

I really hope the CLA does well, especially the AMG. We need more premium compacts/hatchbacks. Hopefully the competition forces Audi to bring us the RS3!


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> As to Audi screwing the pooch on this, I can think of a few ways that is possible. First, Scott Keogh has mentioned recently that he really wants to focus on getting "the right" customers. I've also heard a few whispers that Audi may intend to bring the A3 at a substantially higher base price than Mercedes: $32k. Now, if that $32k price point includes a lot more standard then they'll probably be okay, but unless the A3 is _substantially_ better than the CLA in every tangible way, and unless the A3 packs a lot more for that $32k, they will overplay their hand on this one.
> 
> I don't want Audi to bottom feed in the sub-$30 market, but at the same time they just don't have the same brand image that Mercedes does, try as they might. Let's be clear - for a lot of buyers this will be a badge purchase, and the four rings aren't quite on par with the star just yet.


You took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm totally schizophenic on this point. Audi does not have the same brand equity as MB in US, but it SEEMS they have a slightly superior product in all dimensions. Is this enough to justify premium pricing to the CLA? I really don't know.

What I do know is that if I were the AoA A3 brand manager I would be terrified at the CLA's massive success - if it is already this successful, it will only build further momentum from here. AoA launching late (relative to CLA) and potentially with premium pricing is not a recipe for success. Regardless if the A3 is the superior product or not.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> So back to your original point - it all really depends on what Audi wants to do here: flood the market or, as Keogh has repeatedly stated in recent weeks, get the right kinds of customers and build a tier 1 premium brand image.


IMO "getting the right kinds of customers" is not going to help them sell 30k units/year. My gut tells me AoA will be forced to meet the CLA head on with packaging and pricing.

On a side note, and I personally don't care at all, but it's also bad news for the A3 that the CLA has a sexy, true-pano sunroof. These kinds of visually-impactful "gee-wiz" features go along way in developing an emotional reaction/connection - and this more than anything is what closes the deal, we're only human after all. 

Excellent discussion in this thread, as usual.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

Waterfan said:


> visually-impactful


yea it's also god awfully ugly in many people's minds and the new car buzz will have worn off by the time more attractive audi hits the US market


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

mookieblaylock said:


> yea it's also god awfully ugly in many people's minds


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

mookieblaylock said:


> yea it's also god awfully ugly in many people's minds and the new car buzz will have worn off by the time more attractive audi hits the US market


I think the CLA actually looks good, AMG that is. But I understand that it's one of those things that you either love or hate, and there's not really an in between. The Audi definitely looks better though.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Waterfan said:


> IMO "getting the right kinds of customers" is not going to help them sell 30k units/year. My gut tells me AoA will be forced to meet the CLA head on with packaging and pricing.


Agreed. The q3 I think will do quite well just look at the q5 is selling over 3000/m. I am one who thinks the CLA is very good looking but in a female car kind of way, just was checking out one in the local Walmart parking lot and it stood out, but got behind it and the tailights just seemed so feminine to me. The A3 is certainly more masculine, basically a better looking A4.

B.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Waterfan said:


> IMO "getting the right kinds of customers" is not going to help them sell 30k units/year. My gut tells me AoA will be forced to meet the CLA head on with packaging and pricing.
> 
> On a side note, and I personally don't care at all, but it's also bad news for the A3 that the CLA has a sexy, true-pano sunroof. These kinds of visually-impactful "gee-wiz" features go along way in developing an emotional reaction/connection - and this more than anything is what closes the deal, we're only human after all.
> 
> Excellent discussion in this thread, as usual.


Yeah, the roof is really well done on the CLA. Not that I would make a purchasing decision based on the sunroof, but I think Audi's killer exterior feature on the A3 will be the LED headlamps.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

mookieblaylock said:


> yea it's also god awfully ugly in many people's minds and the new car buzz will have worn off by the time more attractive audi hits the US market


The CLA really isn't as off-putting in person as it is in press shots. In the flesh the styling really holds up much better than I thought it would. I was even surprised at how accessible the rear seating was (granted, I'm around 5'9" - anyone bigger would have difficulty). 

Much the same was said of Hyundai's styling direction with the new Sonata, but several years on now and the Sonata is holding up surprisingly well. 

The CLA and A3 will definitely attract different types of buyers - but how is this much different from the past? Audi buyers have always been drawn to the more understated looks rather than the flash that is offered by Mercedes. That said, I find the Mercedes CLS and the new S-Class to be very well executed and arguably more interesting looking than the A7 and A8.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

After reading the reviews (and videos) and comments, it's definitely going to be one of those wait and see what the A3 / S3 looks like. I have a feeling the CLA is going to be a regrettable purchase when the A3 / S3 comes out. 

Don't get me wrong the CLA is a great purchase, and maybe I am in a different boat then others, but I plan on driving my decision for at LEAST 4-5 years. I don't want to drive it and love it for 1 year and drive it regrettably for the next 3-4 years.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Rudy_H said:


> After reading the reviews (and videos) and comments, it's definitely going to be one of those wait and see what the A3 / S3 looks like. I have a feeling the CLA is going to be a regrettable purchase when the A3 / S3 comes out.
> 
> Don't get me wrong the CLA is a great purchase, and maybe I am in a different boat then others, but I plan on driving my decision for at LEAST 4-5 years. I don't want to drive it and love it for 1 year and drive it regrettably for the next 3-4 years.


The only CLA i would consider right now is the Edition 1, just cause it looks so much cooler than the regular CLA. I am trying to hold out until the A3/S3 show up, but its getting tougher and tougher. Hopefully at the LA Auto Show, Audi will have more info for us on the release date.


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

caliatenza said:


> The only CLA i would consider right now is the Edition 1, just cause it looks so much cooler than the regular CLA. I am trying to hold out until the A3/S3 show up, but its getting tougher and tougher. Hopefully at the LA Auto Show, Audi will have more info for us on the release date.


I'm in the same boat. Need a new vehicle to replace my current vehicle that i've driven into the ground - considered leasing an S4 to tie me over until the S3 gets here - but the wife convinced me to be patient and wait for the S3 first.

Hurry up Audi!


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## dogbolter (Feb 28, 2010)

Just watched the Fifth Gear review of the A class, and they gave it a very good rating, especially the interior. Only poor comment was that the AMG tuned suspension, although great on the track, was too stiff for road use.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Motor trend did a video review of the CLA45 AMG, no complaint from them..mebbe a bit of understeer at the limits, and no video game AWD system. The brits probably won't like it because they can't drive it around turns with the tail sticking out 45 deg from the line (that seems to be their only criteria).


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Good job on the review, well written and complete and seemed to be genuine without the Audi slant built in.

I think the "brand whore" comments about the CLA are ironic. I'm guessing the same people buy their generic cereal, no brand pants, and generic sunglasses. Nothing to do with the brand name on the things you buy? So if I buy a Mercedes CLA many think I am a "brand whore" but when I buy an Audi things are different?

I said it before but the months that the CLA doesn't have the A3 to compete against make for easier sales months and getting some momentum. Guessing little discounting at this point and the foreseeable future.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

dmorrow said:


> I think the "brand whore" comments about the CLA are ironic. I'm guessing the same people buy their generic cereal, no brand pants, and generic sunglasses. Nothing to do with the brand name on the things you buy? So if I buy a Mercedes CLA many think I am a "brand whore" but when I buy an Audi things are different?
> 
> I said it before but the months that the CLA doesn't have the A3 to compete against make for easier sales months and getting some momentum. Guessing little discounting at this point and the foreseeable future.


I'd agree with you on the comments about the brand, considering how much effort Audi is putting into burnishing their credentials in the segment. As Clarkson put it: the new cocks are driving Audis, not BMWs. 

That said I think that Mercedes is depending on its brand image more heavily to sell the car than is Audi. I think the difference might be this: Whereas Mercedes can depend on its logo to attract people to the brand, Audi will still have to fight harder and has more to prove as to why they should pick up an A3 over a CLA.

Now, talking about sales momentum - it's interesting that Mercedes sold ~2,500 units the first week the CLA was on sale. It just so happens that if you read the press, Mercedes shipped _around 2,500 units_ to the US for the CLA launch. I'm curious as to how Merc is reporting their numbers. Based on what I saw at the dealership I really do believe they're selling every unit they have, but you have to admit - the numbers look a bit suspicious. When you consider pre-sold units and all, we'll have to give it a good six months to see how this market space levels out. 

From what I've been reading the discounting on CLAs is virtually non-existent at this point, and who can blame the dealers if they're selling everything they can get their hands on? Again, give it six months and the picture will likely be different. The competition will get really good next summer when the CLA, A3 and new 2-series are all available in volume. I have to admit, the specs on the 2-series look great. Once they have a four door variant in late 2014, early 2015 BMW will have a heluva piece of kit. 

While I thought that the A3 would be a smash and decimate the CLA - I've tempered that expectation significantly now that I've driven the Merc. I have no doubt the BMW will be excellent as well, especially in 4-door format. Audi is going to have a really big fight on its hands to claw market share from the other Germans. Each manufacturer is aiming for between 30,000-60,000 units a piece. My gut tells me that the entirety of this market space tells me that they're being overly optimistic, especially once interest rates start to normalize. 

My expectation is that Audi has the best cost structure of the three, positioning them better than Merc or BMW.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Now, talking about sales momentum - it's interesting that Mercedes sold ~2,500 units the first week the CLA was on sale. It just so happens that if you read the press, Mercedes shipped _around 2,500 units_ to the US for the CLA launch.


I imagine I wouldn't be able to quickly find it again, but some article I saw a week or so back alluded to supply issues for the US-market CLA. I guess it wouldn't be unlike the shortage of TDI motors for the Chattanooga Passat early on.

I think it had to do with production limitations and the margin on the US vehicle. No article will be necessary to see this play out in the next 90-120 days; if sales fall off sharply, it's certainly not because they've already saturated the market.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

dmorrow said:


> Good job on the review, well written and complete and seemed to be genuine without the Audi slant built in.
> 
> I think the "brand whore" comments about the CLA are ironic. I'm guessing the same people buy their generic cereal, no brand pants, and generic sunglasses. Nothing to do with the brand name on the things you buy? So if I buy a Mercedes CLA many think I am a "brand whore" but when I buy an Audi things are different?


I can't speak for others, but I doubt I'd be far off the mark in projecting my rationale on others who have made similar remarks. For me, it's not about the CLA itself, but rather the way Mercedes has chosen to market it. They're parroting the "under $30,000" more than the merits of the vehicle itself in the ads I've seen. Advertising that price point is appealing to brand whores first and foremost in my opinion.

If Audi opts to do it to match Mercedes, I'll say the same about them- though they, and BMW if they do it as well, get at least a bit of a break as it could be construed as a necessary move to combat Mercedes in the media.

I know exactly what Mercedes is hoping to accomplish with their ploy, and I'm sure it's working. I bet fully 0% of the sales so far have been "under $30,000"... or even remotely close to $30,000, for that matter. The true brand whores will probably be quickly ushered out of the showrooms when they realize they're going to pay 15-20% more than the commercial stated.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> For me, it's not about the CLA itself, but rather the way Mercedes has chosen to market it. They're parroting the "under $30,000" more than the merits of the vehicle itself in the ads I've seen. Advertising that price point is appealing to brand whores first and foremost in my opinion.












Plus....the entire front end of the CLA is built around that absolutley goofily-huge MB badge. In the commercial....it *freaking lights up*! Come on!

How can anyone compare that to the understated (read: bespoke) styling that Audi manages to tow the line on? I dont want a gaudy badge-mobile, thank you. (Not to mention for me, there were ZERO other realtime AWD manual coupes on the market).


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> I know exactly what Mercedes is hoping to accomplish with their ploy, and I'm sure it's working. I bet fully 0% of the sales so far have been "under $30,000"... or even remotely close to $30,000, for that matter. The true brand whores will probably be quickly ushered out of the showrooms when they realize they're going to pay 15-20% more than the commercial stated.


Going based on what was on hand and what the dealership told me while testing the CLA, of their 10 cars zero had an MSRP below $34,000. Now it's common for manufacturers to ship primarily well equipped models first to pick up the profits on early adopters, but I would not be surprised if the average MSRP ends up being a model with a $35k sticker that ultimately sells for between $33-$34k with discounts.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I expect we'll see that to be spot-on longer term.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

When you have created a brand that is so strong that people will flock to it and buy it without fully understanding why then you have really done a good job with your marketing. All brands would love to be strong enough to attract the "Brand Whore".

BMW is famous for talking about "starting at ...." prices for their cars only for the buyer to realize later that there is virtually no chance of leaving with a vehicle at that price. 

Why buy a CLA or A3 when the BMW 3 series starts at $32,750? You think this car was created to get people in the door partly to get the brand whore and partly to try to upsell them? http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/byo/newbyo.aspx

http://www.audiusa.com/models states, "A4's starting at $33,800". Unfortunately this is FWD with the CVT that almost no one wants but does seem to be a way to get into a cheap A4 sedan until you find out you don't want this car. Hardly a new advertising function created by Mercedes. 

Lease "deals" are also used with abnormally low mileage allowances, long terms, and using cars that most don't want to get you in the door.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> My expectation is that Audi has the best cost structure of the three, positioning them better than Merc or BMW.


If not for MQB, I would have guessed that Daimler-Chrysler had impressive economies of scale compared to VAG. MQB (and the other Ms) sounds like a paradigm shift and huge COGM win for VAG - once it get fully up and running, that is.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> They're parroting the "under $30,000" more than the merits of the vehicle itself in the ads I've seen. Advertising that price point is appealing to brand whores first and foremost in my opinion.


Agree.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

ChrisFu said:


> Plus....the entire front end of the CLA is built around that absolutley goofily-huge MB badge. In the commercial....it *freaking lights up*! Come on!


This is probably the litmus test for MB(flashy) vs. Audi(understated)

If you love the gaudy CLA LED-Badge, you buy MB
If you hate it, you buy Audi.

Personally, I can't stand it, it screams "Rice" to me.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

dmorrow said:


> When you have created a brand that is so strong that people will flock to it and buy it without fully understanding why then you have really done a good job with your marketing. All brands would love to be strong enough to attract the "Brand Whore".
> 
> BMW is famous for talking about "starting at ...." prices for their cars only for the buyer to realize later that there is virtually no chance of leaving with a vehicle at that price.
> 
> ...


There's one critical difference with your 3 and A4 examples, though- they're over $30,000. These days, $30,000 is a powerful number for buyers. That seems to be the single most universally-understood "bump" in class, in specs, in expectations. Right or wrong, it's the point where everything shifts. At least that seems to be the case with people my age, and those are they very people this entire segment is being created to capture.

In my mind, anything under $30,000 is "cheap" for a new car, and anything over $30,000 is "expensive," though I've seen my own reality shift from $30,000 to $40,000 in the past year or so as I really pay attention to what $30,000 buys you these days. Still, $30,000 remains as that mental cross-point for me.

Don't get it twisted, though; I'm not saying a $29,000 car is a cheap car. There's some damn good stuff going on in the mid to high 20s these days- I just don't consider those options to be expensive.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Waterfan said:


> This is probably the litmus test for MB(flashy) vs. Audi(understated)
> 
> If you love the gaudy CLA LED-Badge, you buy MB
> If you hate it, you buy Audi.
> ...


The badge itself doesn't sway me one way or the other. 

What I am wondering, though, is whether the CLA's schnoz looks absurdly disproportionate in person. In photos, it looks like it was grafted from a truck and the designer forgot to adjust the dimensions to "car scale." Travis?


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

The CLA is actually selling for a discount out here in CA, people have been getting 1-2k off of MSRP. Some have even hit Invoice price already on ordered cars. Honestly, with a loaded CLA coming up to the same price as a well equipped C250, i would take the C class. I know its in its last year, but its still a solid car and will be for years to come.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Don't get it twisted, though; I'm not saying a $29,000 car is a cheap car. There's some damn good stuff going on in the mid to high 20s these days- I just don't consider those options to be expensive.


Case in point: the MK 7 GTI, which is still a very strong contender on my list.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> The badge itself doesn't sway me one way or the other.
> 
> What I am wondering, though, is whether the CLA's schnoz looks absurdly disproportionate in person. In photos, it looks like it was grafted from a truck and the designer forgot to adjust the dimensions to "car scale." Travis?


In person it looks a lot better than in photos. I'm a fan of the newer Mercedes CLS, and I actually like the design language Merc is using on their larger cars - IMO, it looks to be the business. I think it's translated to the shorter wheelbase CLA about as well as can be done. Not perfect, but it still looks good to me.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

caliatenza said:


> The CLA is actually selling for a discount out here in CA, people have been getting 1-2k off of MSRP. Some have even hit Invoice price already on ordered cars. Honestly, with a loaded CLA coming up to the same price as a well equipped C250, i would take the C class. I know its in its last year, but its still a solid car and will be for years to come.


Wow, that is interesting, especially in California. Well, like we've been saying: the first week's numbers don't tell you much. Slow and steady wins the race.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> In person it looks a lot better than in photos. I'm a fan of the newer Mercedes CLS, and I actually like the design language Merc is using on their larger cars - IMO, it looks to be the business. I think it's translated to the shorter wheelbase CLA about as well as can be done. Not perfect, but it still looks good to me.


Man, I'm just going to have to go see one of these. Maybe I'll stop by after I get my ears lowered tomorrow; it's just around the corner. Then I'll go see the real treat- the SQ5 that just arrived.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Waterfan said:


> This is probably the litmus test for MB(flashy) vs. Audi(understated)
> 
> If you love the gaudy CLA LED-Badge, you buy MB
> If you hate it, you buy Audi.
> ...


but then, Audi was the only game in town with LED lights inside the housing, leading many people to call Audi the gaudy brand.

On the other hand, many people think Audi's understated style means that they all look the same..save the gaudy lights.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I was near the only Memphis Mercedes dealer yesterday for a hair cut, so I stopped by afterward to look at the CLA. They had two on the lot- one that was driven off by its new owner just as I got there, and another that was to be driven off by its new owner shortly after I left. I didn't set out to drive one, so I didn't mind in the least that they couldn't try to pressure me into driving one. 

As I was walking toward the showroom, a salesman standing on the sidewalk hollered across the lot, "you must be here to see the CLA!" My response, without even a thought, was, "why, because I'm young?" :laugh:

We BS'd for 15 minutes or so, and I was able to get him to tell me they'd already moved 11 units since they hit the ground. He seemed to feel like his next few, due next week, would go quickly as well. I asked if most of the buyers were younger people, but I'm not sure he really knew who bought the 11 cars they've already moved.

I'll echo what others have said... "not as awkward in person." It's still a bit odd to me, but it's not hideous in person. The example I was able to look at was a grey sport model with the yellow-striped sport seats and black multi-spoke wheels. It wore a price of just over $41,000. The one I saw driving off as I was arriving was a red model that was... decidedly more base; no roof, basic wheels, etc. It absolutely requires the sport package to look acceptable to me, but then so does the A3 based on what I've seen so far in photos and videos.

He seemed to tune out when I told him I didn't really need to know when he got another unit available for test-drives. I told him my mind had been made up in favor of the S3, and he said "you may drive it and find you don't like it." I didn't bother explaining that I'm a bit of a risk-taker with my car purchases. This will be the third one in a row that I didn't drive before ordering, and I fully expect that it will be the third one I'm nothing but happy with. I like the first two such purchases much, much better than the Jetta I did test-drive before purchasing.

He was very impressed with the condition of my GLI, though, and urged that I not trade it into a dealer when I am ready to move it.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

I would take an S3 any day.. And I bet so would that salesman.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

A recent Autoexpress review of the CLA versus the A3 over in the UK:

http://postimg.org/image/mpn7hli2b/
http://postimg.org/image/oz6qem1mb/
http://postimg.org/image/4vn42k9mb/
http://postimg.org/image/ufpe8zv03/
http://postimg.org/image/927yhw983/
http://postimg.org/image/n9xn6jlwz/
http://postimg.org/image/4lflj7v03/


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Sole complaint of the A3 seems to be road noise. I wonder how bad it really is.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Sole complaint of the A3 seems to be road noise. I wonder how bad it really is.


...which would be unfortunate considering that's one of my biggest gripes about the current version. Maybe I'm just getting older, but road and wind noise have started to drive me nutty over the past few years: it's something I've begun to notice in any car I get into. 

That said, A Q5 I had on loan for four days wasn't as quiet as I expected, either. Maybe my expectations are out of whack.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

I just saw the CLA yesterday on the road. I think it is a very handsome design esp when compared to the new lexus IS (one of the ugliest car designs i've seen in very long time). 

To your point about road noise Travis, I actually don't want my car with too much sound deadening. In a way, it's another driving element, like mechanical steering, hand brake and foot brake, no traction control, manual transmission etc that is part of driving input I want. Unfortunately the automakers are eliminating all of these features.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> ...which would be unfortunate considering that's one of my biggest gripes about the current version. Maybe I'm just getting older, but road and wind noise have started to drive me nutty over the past few years: it's something I've begun to notice in any car I get into.
> 
> That said, A Q5 I had on loan for four days wasn't as quiet as I expected, either. Maybe my expectations are out of whack.


I found the Q5 to be very quiet, but anything is quiet next to a MkV.


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## MickSF (May 22, 2008)

I went to check out the CLA yesterday. The car looks much better in person than in photos. I didn't drive it but checked it out for a while inside and out. Nice looking car to me, they will sell a lot of them. There were a lot of people coming in to the dealer to look at the car and drive it. Seems to be creating quite a buzz... Good for MB.

I am still waiting to see my 3 top contenders, the A3, GTI, and 2 Series. I and fairly certain one of the 3 will be my next car. Next spring should be an interesting time for me as all of them should be released then. I am reading and looking at the web for any and all reviews and spy pics for those cars. I am getting anxious...


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