# Main Stud Girdle worth it?



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm in the process of building an ABA turbo project, and was just curious if anyone has used a main stud girdle on their other turbo projects, not just ABAs.
http://bildon.com/catalog/Deta...Nav=6
part in question.
Just wanting to know if its worth the money, or if i should just use ARP main studs and call it a day?
TIA


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Main Stud Girdle worth it? (VWn00b)*

Eurospec sells Girdles as well. I dont see why it wouldnt be worth it. For anything under 500hp you shouldnt be worried.. But if your building a race motor its one less thing to worry about


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Main Stud Girdle worth it? (VWn00b)*

Didnt feel like making a new topic so I will just continue with this one.I bought the 034 Main girdle kit and needed some opinions from people who have BTDT.Eurospec states that you want to have 0.001" of clearance between the girdle and the pan rail surface.
I have known quite a few people who have had oil leaking issues with this set up and was thinking of running one of the paper gaskets instead of silicone that comes with the Victor Reinz overhaul kit between the block and pan rail surface.
Any input on this matter?
Thanks








For those looking for a good read,here is RaTTRacing's build up


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Main Stud Girdle worth it? (VWn00b)*

i'm curious as well, I've heard crank walk issues with 300+whp on ABA's....
any input?


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: Main Stud Girdle worth it? (GTijoejoe)*

I doubt you will have any problems if your using arp main cap studs....but if your planning on building a race motor then there's no reason not to use a girdle. The whole concept in race cars is using the best parts available...and cost is usually not a concern...otherwise its not a "race" car.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Main Stud Girdle worth it? (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_I doubt you will have any problems if your using arp main cap studs....but if your planning on building a race motor then there's no reason not to use a girdle. The whole concept in race cars is using the best parts available...and cost is usually not a concern...otherwise its not a "race" car.









I allready have the girdle so the question remains:
* Use a gasket between the pan rail and the girdle?
* Have a channel machined into the surface of the girdle that meets the pan rail.
You know whats annoying is the fact that the both the ABA & 9A blocks have the same main bearing cap height.I dont see why the spacers couldnt machined by Eurospec instead of making the user do it.


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## blind (Nov 26, 1999)

*Re: Main Stud Girdle worth it? (Wizard-of-OD)*

When you hone the mains, you lower the cap height. This would make premachined spacers too short.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Main Stud Girdle worth it? (blind)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blind* »_When you hone the mains, you lower the cap height.

Thats not the measurement in question.








The purpose of this post was to get some advice from users who have installed a girdle.Eurospec states that there has to be 0.0001" of clearance between the oil pan rail and the girdle.This has caused numourous people to leak on the first start up patching silicone here and there.I do not want to fall into that category but @ the same time I do not want to assemble my entire bottom end before the silicone dry's.
So which of the following would you do:

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I allready have the girdle so the question remains:
* Use a gasket between the pan rail and the girdle?
* Have a channel machined into the surface of the girdle that meets the pan rail.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

These have to be fit up absolutely precisely to seal using silicone. 
If you go too much on the spacers the girdle deflects up when you bolt it all down and it will not seal. Too little and the gap is too large. 
I believe they can be sealed up no question without anything else except silicone, just do the machinework extremely carefully. 
If you still can't get it to seal I would machine a 3/16" or so wide x .1" deep (off the top of my head) groove into both sides of the gasket and use a pair of large 1/8" cross section o rings to seal it up.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
If you still can't get it to seal I would machine a 3/16" or so wide x .1" deep (off the top of my head) groove into both sides of the *gasket *and use a pair of large 1/8" cross section o rings to seal it up. 

You mean the girdle right?


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## blind (Nov 26, 1999)

*Re: Main Stud Girdle worth it? (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You know whats annoying is the fact that the both the ABA & 9A blocks have the same main bearing cap height.I dont see why the spacers couldnt machined by Eurospec instead of making the user do it.









This is what I was referring to.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

Thats one thing that was confusing to me as well.
Does the oil pan bolts go through the girdle into the block or does the girdle fit inside the pan? I'm assuming that the pan bolts through the girdle from what it looks like in the picture.
Is it not possible to seal with anything other than silicone?


_Modified by VWn00b at 7:41 PM 4-9-2007_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_
Is it not possible to seal with anything other than silicone?

This was my understanding @ first but apparantly the girdle must be "flush" with the pan rail.No gaskets or anything


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
This was my understanding @ first but apparantly the girdle must be "flush" with the pan rail.No gaskets or anything









Yea I don't like the idea of not using some kind of gasket.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_Yea I don't like the idea of not using some kind of gasket.

I was thinking of machining the spacers so that the thickness between the girdle and the pan rail equalled that of a stock ABA compressed rubber pan gasket.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_
Yea I don't like the idea of not using some kind of gasket.

well it is how they do it OEM betweened two machined surfaces. They only really use a gasket on stamped steel pans.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I was thinking of machining the spacers so that the thickness between the girdle and the pan rail equalled that of a stock ABA compressed rubber pan gasket.

So by doing this would you just run a gasket between the girdle and pan and then make sure the bolts are torqued enough to prevent leaks?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_So by doing this would you just run a gasket between the girdle and pan and then make sure the bolts are torqued enough to prevent leaks?

A gasket between pan rail & the girdle and another one between the girdle and the oil pan.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
A gasket between pan rail & the girdle and another one between the girdle and the oil pan.

But wasn't it stated above that the clearence between the girdle and rail have to be very tight? What gasket would you put there?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_But wasn't it stated above that the clearence between the girdle and rail have to be very tight? What gasket would you put there?

The ABA gasket which is made of rubber but has metal rings where you insert the pan bolts into.
Rodney Huss has a nice one for the 06A blocks .I am still waiting to hear if he has one for the 058 block.








The idea is to compress the gasket,take the measurement and have the spacers machined to macth that width.
any other input as to why the girdle must be flush with the pan rail?


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

The only reason I can see as to why the girdle must be flush with the rail is because you wouldn't want to put any stress on the outer edge of the girdle whenever you torque the pan down.
BTW, is that a Huss gasket?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_
BTW, is that a Huss gasket?

Yes it is.
I think I am going to machine a groove around the plate.Lets hope it does not leak.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Yes it is.
I think I am going to machine a groove around the plate.Lets hope it does not leak.


Post some pictures of what you do with the grove. I'd like to see how that turns out. I've talked to my builder a few times about running a girdle and he seems to be confident on making it work with no leaks but he hasn't started the work on the new block yet.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_Post some pictures of what you do with the grove. I'd like to see how that turns out. I've talked to my builder a few times about running a girdle and he seems to be confident on making it work with no leaks but he hasn't started the work on the new block yet.

Well the method I was going to use was simple.I was going to use an AEB oil pan gasket which is 1.665mm thick and just compensate for that thickness in the spacers but I am not going that route anymore because I was advised against it.
Instead I am going this route:
* Having a groove machined into the girdle along the red line (see image)
* Apply silicone (probably going to use Toyota stuff as the VW silicone is overly expensive for nothing) and torqueing down the girdle using the pan bolts as well as the main studs then when I am ready to install the oil pan I will remove the pan bolts ,place the gasket between the pan and the girdle and finish it off for good.

_(click for larger image)_
p.s. Red dots on the dry sump pan are what needs to be drilled in order to clear the main stud locking nuts.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

I like that idea. Torquing the girdle until your ready for the pan.
How deep would the groove need to be tho? Just enough to make the silicone flush with the rail?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_
How deep would the groove need to be tho? Just enough to make the silicone flush with the rail?

Maybe 2mm deep if so much.
I am going to send the pan off the machine shop tomorrow morning and then the project thread starts getting written up.


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