# VRT catch can and breather filter



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

Im gonna skip the recirculation for my crank vent on my new setup.
But its hard to install catch can AND filter without getting flamable gases ´to close to exhaust manifold or getting the under hood drag to paint the engine bay with oil sludge .

But ..... i need some advice
pipind = 1inch
Purple thingy = Catch can (3.25 inch diam)
Green = filter 
RED = routing alternative 1
pink = routing 2
Yekkow = routing 3
How would you have done it ?
Pros n cons


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter ([email protected])*

Your not suppose to use breather filters on catch cans for forced induction cars. The whole idea is to have vacuum under the valve cover and in the crank case. Just route a line off the manifold with a check valve to a catch can. (will provide vacuum in the catch can)
Then just hook up the breather hose to the catch can.


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## lockheedVR6 (Jul 6, 2006)

Does someone have a picture of the breather for the crank case hooked up to a "catch can"? I have a clogged up filter on my crank case filter right now which is prolly not good....


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## MKippen (Nov 6, 2000)

*Re: (lockheedVR6)*

what about plumbing somethine like this in the mix, i believe it has a filter built into it, although this might not be what you need.?
this is what i am going to be using on my vrt


























_Modified by theflygtiguy at 4:20 PM 12-9-2006_


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_Your not suppose to use breather filters on catch cans for forced induction cars. The whole idea is to have vacuum under the valve cover and in the crank case. Just route a line off the manifold with a check valve to a catch can. (will provide vacuum in the catch can)
Then just hook up the breather hose to the catch can. 










Yes but all the oil that will come out from the crank case at 8000rpm is not something that i want to hit my turbo with.








And all oil and carb buildup in pressure pipes suck also









Thats why im going this way with the breather for this season

And even if you have a UBER good catch can aka oil trap like the Saab 9-5 type of can you will still get oil and sludge in the system.









And 1inch piping is needed for the crank case to work as it should.
How will that black catch can work with those small inlets ??

_Modified by [email protected] at 6:24 AM 12-10-2006_


_Modified by [email protected] at 6:25 AM 12-10-2006_


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter ([email protected])*

That tiny catch can would never have worked on my car, but 16vt motors are notorious for spewing oil at high rpm... I originally tried a small Jaz catch can from Jegs and didn't have much luck w/ it, as the 3/8" barbs were just too small. My only successful setup was with big 1" breather tubing.
There are some good DIY catch cans on some of the other forums on the internet (SRT4, eclipse, etc.). One of the cooler designs was a Home Depot special w/ a short section of pvc pipe, a pvc end cap at either end, and appropriate brass fittings for the inlet/outlet.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (jmaddocks)*

any links ?
here is some info on the saab oil trap
http://photo.platonoff.com/Aut...t_fix/


_Modified by [email protected] at 8:46 AM 12-10-2006_


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter ([email protected])*

So, basically. A FI motor should have a sealed or recirculated catch can right? 
Problems_ finding a 3/4" check valve, finding a sealed CC that has 2x 3/4" fittings, finding one that doesnt cost $100+ just to hold oil vapours.
Any great ideas that work for the routing of lines on a 12v VR6 ? seems like if the can were just in a "big loop" the vapour may never actually make it into the can.
Also- if its a sealed air tight system, why vent at all? just cap off the VC right? keep the oil in the VC...??


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (gtimagic)*

good thread, ive been eyeing the USRT catch can @ http://www.usrallyteam.com/tanks.html but after reading this thread I am wondering if the filter is good or bad.. right now its just puking oil out the filter all over my motor so anything has to be better than that.


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (dreadlocks)*

not sure of the fitting size, buy looks like the PS bottle might work if turned upside down 
USRT http://www.usrallyteam.com/images/ps_bottle.jpg


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## darkVR6 (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (gtimagic)*

I vent my breather through a catchcan and vent to the atmosphere through a breather filter. No problems here. 
Before doing this, the oil vapours would get into my MAF sensor and mess it up.
There was no PCV valve on my car to begin with...so?


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## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (gtimagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtimagic* »_So, basically. A FI motor should have a sealed or recirculated catch can right? 
Problems_ finding a 3/4" check valve, finding a sealed CC that has 2x 3/4" fittings, finding one that doesnt cost $100+ just to hold oil vapours.
Any great ideas that work for the routing of lines on a 12v VR6 ? seems like if the can were just in a "big loop" the vapour may never actually make it into the can.
Also- if its a sealed air tight system, why vent at all? just cap off the VC right? keep the oil in the VC...?? 

I did it with a $20 ebay can, 2x 90*3/4 barbed fittings $20 and 5ft of 3/4in. ID silicone hose $20.


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (hotshotz16v)*

with a reply like that, You gotta post pics..........please


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (gtimagic)*

Yes,catchcans are good,it allows all that extra air/blowby gasses,out of the block.......I agree with Jmaddocks,the 16V engine spews out oil!!I put 3 vents,2 catchcans,and it is much better now.....actually maintains oil level now......I used to have to add 1/2 qt. right after pounding it,after adding 3rd vent (2 on VC now)oil stays in.
You only need sealed system if you have MAF system not tuned for loss of air.....otherwise it is better not to have oil mist recirculate,it can unbalance turbos,make your IC less efficient,and lower the effective octane rating of your fuel when it is mixed with oil vapor....when my car was on the dyno,yyou could see the fine oil mist in the air


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## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_Yes,catchcans are good,it allows all that extra air/blowby gasses,out of the block.......I agree with Jmaddocks,the 16V engine spews out oil!!I put 3 vents,2 catchcans,and it is much better now.....actually maintains oil level now......I used to have to add 1/2 qt. right after pounding it,after adding 3rd vent (2 on VC now)oil stays in.
You only need sealed system if you have MAF system not tuned for loss of air.....otherwise it is better not to have oil mist recirculate,it can unbalance turbos,make your IC less efficient,and lower the effective octane rating of your fuel when it is mixed with oil vapor....when my car was on the dyno,yyou could see the fine oil mist in the air









This is a great discussion, I hope we can come to some conclusions about VRTs, 16VTs and crank case ventilation.
Here's what I got so far, feel free to correct me :
1. Having the crank case see vacuum is good and reduces oil consumption
2. Having oil in the intake is bad
3. Having metered air leak out in a MAF system is bad unless compensated for
- A sealed system fixes #3
- A catch can of any sort fixes #2
- Most setups shown don't fix #1
So does anyone have a good solution to all three for a 12V VRT running C2-style (factory ECU) software?
Here's my proposal, does this work or will I still see oil in the intake? 
* Crank Case -> Saab oil separator (inlet)
* Saab oil separator (outlet) -> Intake tract, post-MAF, tee off of pipe leading to secondary air pump.
* Saab oil separator (drain) -> sealed or to a sealed container.
Total cost - $20 for separator, $10 for tee and hosing. Oh, and don't use heater hose -- it doesn't like oil and gas ;-)
-m


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_
This is a great discussion, I hope we can come to some conclusions about VRTs, 16VTs and crank case ventilation.
Here's what I got so far, feel free to correct me :
1. Having the crank case see vacuum is good and reduces oil consumption
2. Having oil in the intake is bad
3. Having metered air leak out in a MAF system is bad unless compensated for
- A sealed system fixes #3
- A catch can of any sort fixes #2
- Most setups shown don't fix #1
So does anyone have a good solution to all three for a 12V VRT running C2-style (factory ECU) software?
Here's my proposal, does this work or will I still see oil in the intake? 
* Crank Case -> Saab oil separator (inlet)
* Saab oil separator (outlet) -> Intake tract, post-MAF, tee off of pipe leading to secondary air pump.
* Saab oil separator (drain) -> sealed or to a sealed container.
Total cost - $20 for separator, $10 for tee and hosing. Oh, and don't use heater hose -- it doesn't like oil and gas ;-)
-m


But ....as X saab owner .... i know that they have serious problems with oil in IC pipes and intake.








But it will propably reduce oil in intake


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter ([email protected])*

The pressure in the crankcase has nothing to do with metered air. Its a separate system. All your doing getting rid of positive pressure inside crankcase and valve cover. It has nothing to do with the combustion chamber. 
And by tapping into a vacuum source to suck in positive pressure into the intake...its only happening when not in boost. Only reason some cars have problems with oil in the intake...is the oil that blows by the catch can and check valve. All you need is a better catch can...or two catch cans in series. 
And if you really want the best possible solution to this......buy a separate vacuum pump, and run it off your serpentine belt. This way you never mix any oil vapor with intake air. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (bongoRA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bongoRA3* »_ The pressure in the crankcase has nothing to do with metered air. Its a separate system. All your doing getting rid of positive pressure inside crankcase and valve cover. It has nothing to do with the combustion chamber. 


I was wondering how all that air was sneaking by the valves/pistons.
Here is a *GREAT* writeup about solving CCV problems on a Saab 9-5 Motor : http://www.mitt-eget.com/saab/...shtml .
-m


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter ([email protected])*

what about using one of this ?








http://store.summitracing.com/...w=sku


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## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (FerVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FerVR6* »_what about using one of this ?

I think that the inlet on that is way too small for the crank case pressure. That thing is for coolant.
-m


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## darkVR6 (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (maxslug)*

Just vent to the atmoshpere ( if you don't have emissions








The vent is for Positive (Pressures), as long as you let the pressurized air escape, that is what it is meant for.
Not sure why you would want to connect it to the vacuum system.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (darkVR6)*

because vacum in the crank case will give more hp due to less friction because of the internal pressure in that area


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## darkVR6 (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter ([email protected])*

^^ Well then connecting to the vacuum system won't help then, it is only in vacuum when you don't need any power.
Better way would be to connect it to the intake, so that the air intake vacuum will INCREASE (more g/s) when you try to create more power.
BTW: How many hp are you talking about ? 0.25 or so??


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## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (darkVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darkVR6* »_^^ Well then connecting to the vacuum system won't help then, it is only in vacuum when you don't need any power.
Better way would be to connect it to the intake, so that the air intake vacuum will INCREASE (more g/s) when you try to create more power.
BTW: How many hp are you talking about ? 0.25 or so??

Read the link above about the Saab system... they have a check valve and tube to the intake for when the engine is in vacuum and they have a tube to the air intake post-MAF for when the engine is in boost.

More than HP, it's also supposed to help oil consumption and reduce wear.
-m


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## bongoRA3 (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_
Read the link above about the Saab system... they have a check valve and tube to the intake for when the engine is in vacuum and they have a tube to the air intake post-MAF for when the engine is in boost.

More than HP, it's also supposed to help oil consumption and reduce wear.
-m

Thats a really good way that saab has it setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif But some of us run open inlet.







And a good source of vacuum when your off the throttle or just crusing on the highway...is more than enough in most cases.


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (bongoRA3)*

im gonna make everyone do a flip if you want a vaccum sorce to pull pressure out of the ctach can that runs to VC and Crankase my firend who races dirt cars told me about somethin like crank case evac system , basically what it was is seal it all, run one or two lines from VC and one from crank case through a catch can and then run a line from the top of a catch can to a bung welded on the exhaust with a one way valve so no exhaust could exit back throught the system
conclusion the exhaust moving through and exiting creats vaccum and pull the vaper from the line from the catch can that catches the liquid that pulls liquid and vapors from the motor
he said it adds power tooo andsounds like a good idea to me at higher RPMs the exhaust moves faster causing more suction

that is a good idea but i have a 16vt and i tapped two 10an lines from VC and one from crank case to huge catch can with a filter on top of can to vent to atmosphere
i really want to try this running where my filter is to the exhaust with a one way valve out . im just worried i will smoke alot more but i can get around the emissions test so that part is ok
here is a little diagram i made up quick just incas you dont understand the way i explained it ( in know my ms paint skills suck)









cheers brian



_Modified by bdcoombs at 12:38 AM 12-15-2006_


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## darkVR6 (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_
Read the link above about the Saab system... they have a check valve and tube to the intake for when the engine is in vacuum and they have a tube to the air intake post-MAF for when the engine is in boost.

More than HP, it's also supposed to help oil consumption and reduce wear.
-m

Interesting, that would work then to create a vacuum always. Any ideas/speculation on the hp increase/decrease? I think you have a trade off though as if you re-route the spent crankcase fumes back into the intake - that will decrease power as it contaminates the intake air.
I think I may reroute my catchcan so it does not vent to the atmosphere anymore....next time I go to the dyno.


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## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (darkVR6)*

On and of boost can be solved by a simple valve.
I had the Catch can going from the valve cover to just before the turbo inlet.
And when im not boostin i had a evac hose n the bottom of the catch cant connected to the intake with a check valve .
worked great but in boost vacum in the CC did still get som oil fumes that became a puddle in my IC pipes









5 saab cans in a row might solve it








i know the got a "kit nr" for it and ill check that stuff out tomorrow.


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter ([email protected])*

Kinetic should design one for their kit. However Shawn at Kinetic told me we didn't really need one. He said it won't hurt the turbo or the motor. Either way I'd still like to keep my intake piping clean.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (VR6OOM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6OOM* »_Kinetic should design one for their kit. However Shawn at Kinetic told me we didn't really need one. He said it won't hurt the turbo or the motor. Either way I'd still like to keep my intake piping clean.

oil that get spit into the turbo can damage it .


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## nypassat16v (Oct 1, 2001)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (bdcoombs)*









this looks like a good idea but i dont think it would be very good for those guys that run catalytic converts


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: VRT catch can and breather filter (nypassat16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nypassat16v* »_








this looks like a good idea but i dont think it would be very good for those guys that run catalytic converts

you could just run the oil breather line past the CAT or run no CAT


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