# 180-200hp N/A possible with 4 cyl?



## simon_C (Oct 5, 2006)

just doing a little speculative engine research. trying to figure out if there is a way to build a 4 cyl motor that can realistically make 180-200hp normally aspirated and can be realistically daily driven. or will compression ratios and such just make that unreasonable? i would like to keep the custom internals to a minimum, as in, what could be accomplished with just vw/audi parts, aside from megasquirt/ITBs. if what im thinking is just unfeasable, what is the most i can pull from a hybrid vw 4 cyl motor and keep it daily drivable? just trying to learn a little more about engine building and what i should expect.
:beer:


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

you could do it with a stock 2.0 16V bottom end, a good ported head, 276 cams, an enrichment circuit for the CIS-E and a 50mm intake.

or a stock 16V with a shot of nitrous

plenty of other ways these days. harder on an 8V but certainly possible

edit: I mean crank HP, not at the wheels.


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## 8mann (Jul 15, 2001)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDAgCvuawNE&NR=1

178hp scirocco 8v.


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## simon_C (Oct 5, 2006)

antichristonwheels said:


> you could do it with a stock 2.0 16V bottom end, a good ported head, 276 cams, an enrichment circuit for the CIS-E and a 50mm intake.
> 
> or a stock 16V with a shot of nitrous
> 
> plenty of other ways these days. harder on an 8V but certainly possible


seriously? its that simple? forget nitrous. thats cheating. i dont know all to much about 16vs, i had no idea they were that easy to get power out of. oh man 180 to 200 naturally aspirated horsepower in a mk1 would be a blast :laugh:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

200 WHP daily driven is not a easy task

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5066941-Project-direction-guidence-needed


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## simon_C (Oct 5, 2006)

Svedka said:


> 200 WHP daily driven is not a easy task
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5066941-Project-direction-guidence-needed


good info. thats the stuff im looking for.. i guess i can settle for less. heh oh well


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

simon_C said:


> good info. thats the stuff im looking for.. i guess i can settle for less. heh oh well


More

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5078261-189whp-153wtq-2.0l-16v-ABF-Info-inside


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

the power is in the head. You have to spend $ on the head. A 16V flows better from the start. It doesn't hurt to start with more displacement but its really starts costing to get much beyond 2.1 liters. My new Rabbit truck build "should" be making those numbers. TDI crank with 84mm JE pistons, balanced everything, Collin head, bigger valves, Weber 45s, Electromotive crank trigger ignition. I have less than 1000 miles on the build. It pulls like a 100 inch Harley. No need to downshift, just give it some pedal. It is great to not get cut off on the interstate cause people aren't expecting it to move so quickly and couldn't match it anyway. Thus far it has not been quite to 100 but it certainly gets there quick.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

antichristonwheels said:


> the power is in the head. You have to spend $ on the head. A 16V flows better from the start. It doesn't hurt to start with more displacement but its really starts costing to get much beyond 2.1 liters. My new Rabbit truck build "should" be making those numbers. TDI crank with 84mm JE pistons, balanced everything, Collin head, bigger valves, Weber 45s, Electromotive crank trigger ignition. I have less than 1000 miles on the build. It pulls like a 100 inch Harley. No need to downshift, just give it some pedal. It is great to not get cut off on the interstate cause people aren't expecting it to move so quickly and couldn't match it anyway. Thus far it has not been quite to 100 but it certainly gets there quick.


There's no such thing as a Harley that pulls . and all you need is 65 ci on a bike to go fast. 

On the serious side I agree... You make power with a good cylinder head. But simply bowl hogging and opening the ports is not the answer. Ya know the old saying power costs money, how fast do you want to go? Get your checkbook out what you want to do ain't cheap.


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## simon_C (Oct 5, 2006)

Prof315 said:


> There's no such thing as a Harley that pulls . and all you need is 65 ci on a bike to go fast.
> 
> On the serious side I agree... You make power with a good cylinder head. But simply bowl hogging and opening the ports is not the answer. Ya know the old saying power costs money, how fast do you want to go? Get your checkbook out what you want to do ain't cheap.


yeah i dont want to pay for any machine work. i like to do as much as possible myself. i guess 200 is a little much to shoot for NA then huh.


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

want to play with the big boys? and go NA

http://eurospecsport.com/

VW love boost and the best way to get 200 HP+ I would go with a turbo kit from kinetics since it's much easier to get alot of HO


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## simon_C (Oct 5, 2006)

dubbinmk2 said:


> want to play with the big boys? and go NA
> 
> http://eurospecsport.com/
> 
> VW love boost and the best way to get 200 HP+ I would go with a turbo kit from kinetics since it's much easier to get alot of HO


i dont "do" kits. i prefer to piece together myself, and it seems that turbo is the way to go. oh well.


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Should be obtainable... 
Depends on what you are doing. 

I hope to have a bit over 110hp / liter when I'm finished with my 2116cc-16v 

ABA bottom 
TD crank 95.5 stroke machined, lightened & balanced 
ABA rods lightened & balanced 
Wossner ABF 12.4:1 pistons, machined by yours truly (to compensate for the longer stroke, giving about 13.5:1 with the custom H.G.) 
Matched port intake to Weber 45 DCOE's 
Ports "cleaned up"  on a 051 head 
34mm supertech intake valves with 5.5mm stems & undercut guides 
28.5 Ferrera exhaust valves & undercut guides 
Schrick 276's 
Schrick springs 
Titanium retainers 
Kent cams adjustable gear 
Megajolt Jr Standalone ignition with MAP input for 3D programming 
Coilpacks 
IM lightened & balanced 
8.5Lbs 210mm flywheel & 800# pressure plate dynamically balanced assembly 
ACT ceramic disc 

I've paid my track days for 2011, so I'll keep you posted! 

For pics, see my signature


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I want to see the dyno when your done:beer::thumbup:


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## CasuallyWreckless (Aug 27, 2007)

Worked abf 16v ftw:thumbup:


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## GTOBB (Dec 30, 2003)

go ABF with 276+ porting& remap


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Svedka said:


> I want to see the dyno when your done:beer::thumbup:


Finished the car last thursday ;Megajolt blew up the voltage regular chip, so had to reweld another one on the board.

We had a local GTG dyno day thing, last Saturday, so I went :
Car has zero tuning done to it, Webers are running rich about 10:1 (need to reduce to 165 mains, and possibly change emulsion tubes)
Could'nt get the laptop to communicate with the Megagjolt (famous USB-RS232 adapter issues)

The dyno run video is the first one of 3 runs, best run acheived 172.3HP @ 6074 RPM & 175FT-LB @ 5237 RPM

If you take the normal calculation factors for Mustang Dyno (approx 1.2) it gives around 204HP at the crank (not tuned)

Tuning will be done in a few weeks...

Dyno is a Mustang that was calibrated April 2011 (new)


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## Jason_Reuben (Jan 15, 2005)

Well i have no way to confim this. 

I have a 8v motor now that might be up there in the 200hp+ range. 

2.0l bubble block punched out and stroked to a 2.2l

Full forged crank, knifed, smoothed, balanced internals. 

PnP GTI big valve head, chamfered valve stems, larger valves, HD valve spings and comp. 276??? cam

Lots of $$$ into the motor for all the work and parts. The list is way longer and detailed but I dont want to go that far into it here yet. 

Running MSnS. 

Building car now. Kind of. Motor is done. all the parts are here. Rabbit is getting all the body work done. 

I guess I will see when its all done and I get some dyno time to tune the MS.


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