# Questions about Internally Modded/Built 2.5



## saosin62 (Mar 7, 2011)

I have a spare 2.5 laying around from a 2011 Jetta. I am looking into starting an NA build. Aside from the external mods as far as intake manifold,exhaust manifold and intake does anyone have any expierence as far as internals. Looking to do upgraded valve train, bigger valve, and bigger cams(if available). Also would a tune for a sri manifold and exhaust be enough to make up for the internal mods/ Thanks for any help or advice in advance


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

For internals and an na build, what i'd recommend is: cnc port job on the intake and exhaust.

Stage 3 ferrea valvetrain

High compression pistons ( 11:1 if you want a higher comp, 12:1 if you are serious)

Obviously all the bolt ons, then add an oil cooler and meth.

Talk to ina engineering, they know this engine, and they hsve done what you are asking, many many times.

sent from tapatalk


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> For internals and an na build, what i'd recommend is: cnc port job on the intake and exhaust.
> 
> Stage 3 ferrea valvetrain
> 
> ...


INA fully built n/a 2.5l's? :what: 
where are they at now and how come they never showed us any of the results?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Let me specify what "these" meant.

Ina has done a lot of internal modified engines, specifically the 2.0t which arguably is a 2.5l minus 1 cylinder.
The usually do mahle pistons, forged rods and ferrea valvetrain, all paired with a cnc head port job.

sent from tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

C2Motorsports checking in 

With stock internals and a couple other modifications like exhaust and intake, a Short Runner Intake is capable of 200+ wheel with accompanying tune.

We will also have a dyno here in house within the month and we could custom tune the setup once you can get running. We're only 2.5 hours south of Columbus and would love to get our hands on the car once it's ready.

:thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> C2Motorsports checking in
> 
> With stock internals and a couple other modifications like exhaust and intake, a Short Runner Intake is capable of 200+ wheel with accompanying tune.
> 
> ...


by the looks of it, he's looking for a complete NA build... not just the "basic" bolt ons.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

An SRI is a great start though.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> by the looks of it, he's looking for a complete NA build... not just the "basic" bolt ons.


That was my point... just BASIC stuff and it put down 200+ wheel so who knows what it can do when it's fully built 

:thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

itskohler said:


> An SRI is a great start though.


while we are on the matter, if you want an SRI: i'd fully recommend the UM SRI.

true, it doesnt have the Throttle body on the oem location, and its not the cheapest, but it will yield DYNO PROVEN gains when paired to the "award" winning UM tune (UM tunes won certain awards on the Eurotuners GP)


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

SRI or ITB's are needed to get things where you wish to go.
both C2 and UM make over 200whp with thier SRI's. there is a full thread comparing them, dyno info and more dyno info coming from NLS very very soon.
BUT the new one off NLS ITB's should make more 
good thing fred made a review before owning one...maybe in 2 weeks make a review.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

josh, where did i review anything?

i wrote recommendation and notes. 

i cant review an untested product.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

thygreyt said:


> josh, where did i review anything?
> 
> i wrote recommendation and notes.
> 
> i cant review an untested product.


shouldn't recommend one highly either without facts...just saying.

i posted up facts and what you will get out of either or.
....because? i did both, fitted both, dyno'd both and gave FAIR, HONEST reviews of them.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> while we are on the matter, if you want an SRI: i'd fully recommend the UM SRI.
> 
> true, it doesnt have the Throttle body on the oem location, and its not the cheapest, but it will yield DYNO PROVEN gains when paired to the "award" winning UM tune (UM tunes won certain awards on the Eurotuners GP)


 I am going with the C2 mani for numerous reasons. Primarily keeping the stock throttle body poistion, as my intake is in a tight spot as is.


nothing-leaves-stock said:


> SRI or ITB's are needed to get things where you wish to go.
> both C2 and UM make over 200whp with thier SRI's. there is a full thread comparing them, dyno info and more dyno info coming from NLS very very soon.
> BUT the new one off NLS ITB's should make more
> good thing fred made a review before owning one...maybe in 2 weeks make a review.


 Now now children, lets not thread jack


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

sorry sir, just wanted to state facts and not spread internet theories and hear say around.


BOTH SRI can make 200whp...facts.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Josh, 

By proper English, which BTW is not my native language:

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...bd463be09dc681c&ix=sea&ion=1&biw=1366&bih=639



google dictionary said:


> *rec·om·men·da·tion*
> noun /ˌrekəmənˈdāSHən/  /-ˌmen-/
> recommendations, plural
> 
> ...


Therefore, i CAN recommend without a need for personal testing.
i am RECOMMENDING based on RESULTS, proven results.

This results include, and are not limited to:
-Eurotuner GP testing. (dyno, 1/4 mile drag race)
-Multiple user's dyno (you submitted one as well)


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Josh, I believe you. 

You will be hearing from me once my dog stops costing me 2k a month in vet bills


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

ah man! i love dogs...sorry to here

fred, your awesome.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

I think this can be settled with Danny's comment. All he said was A SRI. 

Its splitting hairs to get into which one provides +3-4 hp. And in the end, all that matters is what HE wants to do.

I do agree, talking to INA and letting them know what your intentions are is definitely a step in the right direction.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Less "recommendations", more facts :thumbup:

OP: you can talk with me about C2Motorsports SRI and tune (both of which have proven results)... If you want any more info on other SRI's and tunes, contact their companies directly or Fred should know.

Looking forward to this build and a possibility of working together should you choose our direction. :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> fred, your awesome.


Thanks, i dont really strive for it... it just happens.



[email protected] said:


> Less "recommendations", more facts :thumbup:


lol, if the recommendations were to be C2 sw and/or any C2 product, i'm sure you wouldnt mind.

anyways, onto the thread:

*if you need ANY HELP sourcing or any info on the internals of the 2.5L, simply contact INA ENGINEERING and they would GLADLY help you out. *


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> S
> BUT the new one off NLS ITB's should make more


this i want to see! pls do make one of those threads with mucho ic:'s and dyno results like you have done in the past


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

nickbeezy said:


> this i want to see! pls do make one of those threads with mucho ic:'s and dyno results like you have done in the past


as always! we will have full build with outcome, dyno, and race results! :wave:


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

^ are you doing that to your MK1? if so, im really jealous. 
can you use the throttle bodies off a motorcycle and what ecu management 

also what is the word on cams coming out this year?


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

pennsydubbin said:


> INA fully built n/a 2.5l's? :what:
> where are they at now and how come they never showed us any of the results?


To be honest not sharing or posting results is our fault. Between trying to run the business , develop new products , get the eshop going and simply get the day to day jobs done around here , everyone is swamped.... and to add insult to injury some customers prefer to be discrete about there projects for e.g. a 2.5 Rabbit motor running ITB's (DBC sorry) and 13:1 CR pistons.
Right now we are over seeing (2) Rallye 2.5 20V Turbo conversions and (5) longitudinal conversions.

We have approx (20) 2.5 Rabbit motors here from all Manufacturing Years and have documented the differences from crankshafts , camshaft material etc. 
INA has built , crated and shipped 4 motors to date complete from camshaft girdle to oil pan. 

There is no a product for this platform we didn't think of manufacturing. 
There is a reason I sponsor this forum.... 

Don't assume because we do not post that much that we are sitting idle....just email and ask.:thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

this is why i support INA. 

they know, and do a LOT.

again, contact them them for anything related to the insides of the 2.5L.


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

INA said:


> Don't assume because we do not post that much that we are sitting idle....just email and ask.:thumbup:


Just realized your shop is based in Canada. :thumbup:

You got an email sir


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## rod_bender (Apr 14, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Less "recommendations", more facts :thumbup:
> 
> OP: you can talk with me about C2Motorsports SRI and tune (both of which have proven results)...


Danny, I agree. Lets stop the hard selling, and get on with facts.




nothing-leaves-stock said:


> Looks good! Still hate the 2.5 mid range cam change dip they all have. Ugh! Oh well. Tis the engine


From This Post





nothing-leaves-stock said:


> we just installed the C2motorsports SRI for the 2.5L. BEST fitting, easiest to install, DID NOT DYNO'D YET! (so don't ask! haha) but pulls VERY nice through 3000 to 7200. no loss of torque at bottom end. no modifications needed to install this SRI(bend one bracket and shorten one hose 2'', shown in pictures.) no extra parts needed! everything is included.


From This Post






nothing-leaves-stock said:


> dyno chart WAS posted awhile ago for the c2 SRI software on the road race car.....
> 
> repost...for those that missed it months ago.
> 
> again, we are waiting for our last install customer to dyno his with us.






[email protected] said:


> I think we sorted the midrange dip pretty well given the limited time.
> 
> Here is a comparison chart: Same car, same dyno session. (RedRum GTi 2006 2.5L )









Is it possible to get some non-vendor bias information here?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

quite honestly, i try. and i will dyno my car once the mani and SW is installed.

C2 and NLS are all day long "hating" those that dont agree with their opinions.

and one question: if all the engines (2.5L) have the so called "cam phase/ dip" as some people reffer to it, how come UM SOLVED that issue?

which begs the question for the NA builds: is there EVEN such a thing as a cam dip?? 
could we have an NA build with NO dips??


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## define your self (May 23, 2009)

a c2 sri/ c2 tune will be done. i just bought one and am waiting for it to be finshed and delivered and than nls is installing it- maybe even a test pipe- still need to see if i can afford it/ source one. than it will be dyno'd as its on my way home. im just as curious as anyone else out there as what power will be put down, ive been wondering for a while what the power will be and i bought this more on a whim, as it was a this or that kinda thing. im just happy to be getting more power and hopefully answering some questions and ending some arguments


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

rod_bender said:


> Danny, I agree. Lets stop the hard selling, and get on with facts.
> Is it possible to get some non-vendor bias information here?


 That's going to be hard to do. Individuals who purchase from vendors swear by them, only adding to the fog of bias information. I don't see bias information as being THAT bad as long as you take it with a grain of salt. Im going with the C2 mani because it is the best fit for what I need it for. And I'm sure I will be adding to the confusion with rants and raves about it. 

I also think people will argue tooth and nail just to prove a point. No one can admit when they are wrong, or when someone else has a valid point. I like to think I am more of a sponge, adsorbing information and making decisions for myself. It's a shame people can't take their opinions and seperate them from facts. :thumbdown:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

not sure what your post means mr. "rod_bender".
all you posted was facts again that we have posted before....

other are correct here...you will pick a side, a team, a company, a motor, a car brand, a color, a fabric, a tv show etc etc etc some stick with that team or brand, other jump from one to the next to the next and so on......there will ALWAYS be opinions and FACTS helping both sides in each of these. i posted MANY times about C2 and UM and other companies. both good and bad on each but all facts from testing, installs, dynos, racing etc.


C2 makes great product and kits, we and MANY others use them all the time! its proven
Jeff atwood is talented. yes very, top notch tuner.
INA does crazy higher end bits and race pieces, awesome stuff
IE has great rods and cnc bit, heck i even have thier rods in my car!

*yet each one of you, and even i have fallen for this as well....We will rip apart each one of these companies over little nothingness or one little thing. when we SHOULD view this as "HOLY CRAP! at least 4 major companies are trying to help out tEh LOWEST motor in the VW stable...."

*


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> quite honestly, i try. and i will dyno my car once the mani and SW is installed.
> 
> C2 and NLS are all day long "hating" those that dont agree with their opinions.
> 
> ...


Judging by some of the posts I have seen you make, you arent trying at all to be unbiased lol... 

We aren't "hating" on those that dont agree, we are just making sure that we are just making sure that our product is correctly represented, not unfairly judged due to an opinion. 



nothing-leaves-stock said:


> *We will rip apart each one of these companies over little nothingness or one little thing. when we SHOULD view this as "HOLY CRAP! at least 4 major companies are trying to help out tEh LOWEST motor in the VW stable...."*


THIS^

Unfortunately, people would rather sit around on the intrawebz and fight to the death over a setup they have never put on their car, take opinions as facts and flex their internet muscle in every thread where they feel they need to share their already well-known opinion instead of just leaving well enough alone and clicking the back button. 

:thumbup:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Judging by some of the posts I have seen you make, you arent trying at all to be unbiased lol...
> 
> We aren't "hating" on those that dont agree, we are just making sure that we are just making sure that our product is correctly represented, not unfairly judged due to an opinion.
> 
> ...


Mhm. I like to post in forums, don't get me wrong, but I do it in hopes of learning something new.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

keep posting!
this forum was and still should be a place to get answers, product info and ask questions....just have to find the correct people to listen to.
:beer:


here...laugh a bit!


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## rod_bender (Apr 14, 2007)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> not sure what your post means mr. "rod_bender".
> all you posted was facts again that we have posted before....



Just to show that you contradict yourself. 
Have you ever run for political office?

There is a dip, there isn't a dip....whatever suits your self promotional agenda at the time.

Your facts will be 'fact' if you post it enough times.

The only advertisers arguing with us peons/customers is you, my friend. :beer:

Don't get upset, no one really reads this stuff anyway.


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

opcorn:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

each of those dyno's had dips. big or small. a dip around 4-5K it's there. picture, chart, feel, power numbers etc ..it's there.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> each of those dyno's had dips. big or small. a dip around 4-5K it's there. picture, chart, feel, power numbers etc ..it's there.


If the dip is due to a mechanical issue, such as the "cam phasing", then how ia it that it can be "solved" via proper sw?

sent from tapatalk


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

i wish there was a PERFECT fix for this. but i personally have not seen it yet. "helped"? yes, fixed? no

and you can change when the cam phasing hits. i beleive years back jeff and i were talking about he could change it 13 degrees? i can't rememebr. but something with it wasn't perfect for power before or after. it looks like he figured out more since then. but form all the dyno's...UM, C2, apr, uni, etc...i still see a small dip there...


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

rod_bender said:


> Just to show that you contradict yourself.
> Have you ever run for political office?
> 
> There is a dip, there isn't a dip....whatever suits your self promotional agenda at the time.
> ...


I see a dip at 4900 rpm on both charts that you posted.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Well as I see it, we have several great options from several solid vendors. It's excellent. And NLS is going to show us an ITB option which as waaayy cool. And IE is cranking out 2.5 products like crazy. UM has 09+ (and Mk6) offerings. Then we have some very knowledgeable 2.5 guys sharing in the discussion.

I'd say that putting all the other personal crap aside, it's a good year to be a 2.5'er. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Me personally, I want cams.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Totally agree. That ITB should be sweet.

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

we are doing them one off for a customer. NOT a kit to sell


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> we are doing them one off for a customer. NOT a kit to sell


But if you do one for a customer, then you could do another on request for another customer willing to pay, no?


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Depends on what agreement NLS and their customer had set up


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

Sure. If the customer wishes to pay. Because its not cheap.


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

Sometimes I wish I had an n/a 2.5l again. Hmmm


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## saosin62 (Mar 7, 2011)

thanks for all the insight. I have been mainly focusing on the appearance of my car so far. I am getting need the end of where I want itto be...for now. Ive reading aboutall the different SRI and exhaust manifolds with a tune and making around 200whp. Im just really trying to determine for the price point will the horse power gains be worth devoting a few thousands in valve trains and pistons,rods, etc? and with all the internal parts cost would it just be worth throwing a turbo kit?


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## saosin62 (Mar 7, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> C2Motorsports checking in
> 
> With stock internals and a couple other modifications like exhaust and intake, a Short Runner Intake is capable of 200+ wheel with accompanying tune.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Danny. I am saving up for the SRI and tune alreadying. I am not against adding external mods as well just eant to squeeze out some extra power while remaining reliable


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

saosin62 said:


> Thanks Danny. I am saving up for the SRI and tune alreadying. I am not against adding external mods as well just eant to squeeze out some extra power while remaining reliable


Keep up with scheduled maintenance and youll be just fine.


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## saosin62 (Mar 7, 2011)

itskohler said:


> Keep up with scheduled maintenance and youll be just fine.


Yes I couldnt agree more. I am a vw tech so all my cars are well taken care off.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

saosin62 said:


> Yes I couldnt agree more. I am a vw tech so all my cars are well taken care off.


 Well than, let me tell you something you dont know. My dinner was badass!


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## Stephen Grant (Mar 10, 2012)

Are there or will there be any cam shafts available for the 2.5L engine?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Companies have hinted at them being produced and then nothing ever came about BUTTTT, I think we will finally be seeing a set this year. I REALLY hope, not that Ill be able to afford em right away but I will have them in my engine eventually .


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