# 95 golf cranks but no start



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

EDIT: 
CAR IS STARTED JUST HAS ENGINE LIGHT AND MAKES LOUD SQUEAL. engine light have code 2113 which has to do with timing even though mine is on point. and then theres a video clip of the loud squealing which isnt caused by any of hte belts.
EDIT:

i have a 95 golf i got for very cheap and i have been slowly fixing it in my free time. first was the fuel pump which was shot. that was replaced but it still wouldn't start. so i changed the plugs and the coil pack. then it started but gave me and engine light. the code was timing error. so i tried to re-adjust the belt but every time i got the engine light. then one of the times i did it and the car wouldn't start at all only crank. i tried spraying carb spray and the coughed a bit and started for a few seconds. 

this is when i decided to stop half assing things and i bought a new timing belt. once that was replaced and the timing seems dead on but still wont starts and only cranks. tried to spray carb and ony got a few coughs a few times. 

i will post pictures of the timing in a bit. but i think it has something to do with the fueling. i checked the pump and it does buzz when i try to start the car. what could be causing the injector to not fire off? 

i'm real pissed because i had to car running and now its dead again. any help or if you have tests i can run will all be greatly appreciated.


----------



## rommeldawg (May 25, 2009)

pull the plugs and do a compression check. are you sure the timing is correct... make sure your distributor isnt 180 out... so make sure that when the crank and cam marks are tdc that the dist is firing on 1.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

compression should be good because it was checked a few weeks ago and it was fine. and i am very sure timing is good but i will be taking/posting pics in a few hours.

i feel like i did some small stupid thing that caused it.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

here is timing



























trying to show that cylinder 1 is at top (kinda crappy)










also noticed this sensor has two wires but one was cut. how important is tis sensor and what problem could it cause.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

i replaced the sensor hook up and no difference


----------



## onewiper (Aug 29, 2002)

That sensors looks like the backup light switch. Do you have spark?


----------



## jorge r (Apr 27, 2006)

Need air, fuel, and spark. Check your fuel pressure, check for spark at the spark plug wires and at the coil.
An led test light is used to check injector signal and the coil and ignition control module. The led will light with the short electric pulses.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

i will check spark any more info on testing the injectors, ignition control module and coil pack with led? or can i use a volt/amp reader? i know were everything is except the ignition control module which i have no clue about.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

ok so checked the spark and it was dark orange and not light blue/white. so then i replaced plugs/wires and coil pack to only get slightly brighter orange sparks. not sure what to change now though to get them to be white


----------



## jorge r (Apr 27, 2006)

It's good you have spark, cap and rotor should be kept in good shape, even if old, engine should still work.
A led with a 300 ohm resistor in series should do it. Radio Shack had one rated for 12 volts, I found a test light with a led instead of a lamp in it. 
You can't use a meter or test lamp to test a signal in miliseconds, a diode flashes, in fuel injection a node light is available as well. A light emiting diode (led) with a resistor in series works as well.
Anyhow, you need to test for fuel, or the injectors. You have spark. You may be able to remove a sparkplug and see if it's wet with fuel, put a lit match to it, or smell it.


Ignition control module is in the coil, No. 5









Single color LED test light will only work when properly connected, polarity connection maters. A dual color LED will light one color or the other, always lights, depending on polarity of connection.

Using a led test light to test internal control module,









Using led test light to test signal from ECU


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

alright well i ran all those test and everything was good apart from the fuel in the cylinder. so then i took the fuel line of the rail and well dry... so i went to the pump and took off the metal lid to hear if it was buzzing. and so i try to start engine and the pump buzzes. then i unhook the two hoses from the pump and they are also both dry. so is pump broken? i hope not because i just replaced it a month ago. could i possibly have installed it wrong? im really lost. i don't want to pull it out and put another one in because its a pain in the ass to do so just to test.


----------



## onewiper (Aug 29, 2002)

Are you sure you have fuel, I wouldn't trust the fuel gauge.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

yup i put 3-4 gallons when problem started


----------



## onewiper (Aug 29, 2002)

Looks like you need to pull the pump, make sure the suction side the pump isn't pinched. Did you put a new filter on the end of the pump, also check in the tank to make sure the pump is sitting in fuel.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

it is sitting in fuel. 

i didnt know i could change those parts. i will pull it and then report back


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

ok so took it out and apart. 

all the filter/screens were clean. 

is it safe to test it while its apart? 

how do i remove bottom screen? 

anything else to look for/test? 

ill post pictures of what i have done very soon


----------



## jorge r (Apr 27, 2006)

I wouldnt test it while it's apart without taking precautions. Make sure there is no spark source near the fuel. Extra long test leads or energyzing the pump in the opposite side of the car with plenty of ventilation. Making or breaking electric contact causes to spark. 
I know there is a check valve in the pump for the return fuel that can go bad, but if you have a new pump, hopefully you can send it back for a good pump.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

alright well here are a few pictures i took 


























































bought it second hand so no returning it option.


----------



## jorge r (Apr 27, 2006)

Motor buzzes but no pump action. Needs some testing..., >40 p.s.i is good pressure.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

Alright well i took the pump out of my jetta and installed it in the golf. It started but the engine light came on and the engine was loud and squeakish. I tried to blink the code but when i plug the connector the light goes off and stays off. Doesnt blink the code. But if i restart car the light comes back on and same story all over again.


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

certain 95's can't blink the codes, might have to find someone with vag-com or if you can get it started well enough to get it in it doesn't cost much. how is the distributor lining up with the other timing marks dead on? sometimes its necessary to adjust the distributor to one or the other side of the prongs.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

well ive blinked codes in it before so it should work. but i unplugged the negative terminal over nite so ill see if anything changes. and everything does seem very lined up but i will double check.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

alright so starting with engine light problem. 

still on and still wont blink codes but goes away when i try 

second timming: 

heres a few pictures. cam is dead on, crank seems a but off. and distributor i didnt show but is perfect. 


























could being jut a notch off cause engine light to turn on? 

third the noise: 

here is a video. it does not even come close to showing how loud and abnoxious the the noise is. 

 

could the problem be the belt i used here is the box 


















fourth problem: 

i recently foud was a vac hose that not hooked up to anything.. 










the white plastic hose 

here is were it goes to


----------



## Minor_Threat (May 12, 2009)

have you checked the fuel pump relay? 

the humming from under the hood isn't the injectors, it may sound like its them but its actually the throttle body, 

jump terminal 87-30 that will bypass the relay and run the fuel pump. 

Have you also thought about a crank sensor? 

a bad crank sensor will cause the car to crank and crank but never start.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

the car starts 

just engine light comes on 

and theirs a loud whining noise coming from the motor (see video)


----------



## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

I hear a whirring from new belts, but I wonder if that tensioner is not set too tight. If it is, the tensioner will start to make a racket when it heats up.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

i thought of that too so i loosened it up and still no change.


----------



## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Did you swap the other 2 belts, too?


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

nope just timing one. 

so today the car was in a good mood and let me blink the codes and it was 2113 again which is timing. but the timing is like spot on. could it be a sensor that is broken or something? 

again thanks for all and any help.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

swapped distributor with one i know is good and no change


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

"Hall sender - No speed signal from distributor; check Hall sensor and circuits or the 
Air-flow sensor plate is not moving freely; adjust potentiometer or lever." 

this the definition i keep finding for the code 2113. 

since i tried to replace the distributor and it didn't do anything does any one know what the second part is referring to? i did some searching and couldn't come up with much.


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

that goes back to CIS-motronic in the b3 passat, you don't have one. have you checked for voltage to the hall sensor? i have to wonder if thats not was causing the code given that you've replaced the sensor itself.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

alright i have the tool to measure voltage/ampage just not sure which of the 3 prongs to connect to and what unit of measurement to use


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

to check power to the sensor use a voltmeter/dmm set to test DC voltage up to 20V and test across the outer terminals of the female plug with the ignition on. should see around 4-6V. if you're getting nothing the problem is with the power supply (often in the ignition switch). people have claimed to have up to 12 and normal operation, but with a CEL.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks for the info.

I plugged the multimeter into the plug/half that is connected to the wire. That was 4-6V. Is that the correct half of the plug to test. I am a bit confused which was f/m because of the shape.


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

male is the sensor, female is the connector attached to the harness. so you saw the correct voltage there? hmmm. have you tested the ignition switch thoroughly, ie resistivity, voltages in on and start?


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

would that be the connector with the group of wires that is straight down from the key lock?


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

also swapped back to old timing belt to see if that was causing the loud frequency but nothing changed.

it couldn't be because i left one the plastic covers off right?


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

not likely. when you say you loosened the tensioner, do you mean you backed the tension off the belt or actually loosened the mounting stud?


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

i had it so the belt had a bit more slack but the nut holding the tensioner was on tight


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

back of the stud and torque it to spec. its sounds like an over tightened tensioner stud (the howl, the howl!!!). hope this helps.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

Ok thanks.

i half to wait till Monday till i can borrow torque wrench from some one i know.

i found the torque specs in Haynes manual.

but not sure how to back the stud off.


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

back off = loosen it. you tightened it without a torque wrench?


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

when you say the stud you are talking about the threaded part coming out of the engine which the tensioner slides onto?


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

guess i should have been a little clearer. its not the stud you're backing out but the nut that threads on to it holding the tensioner in place (and thus holding tension). it only needs to be torqued to 35 ft.lbs, over torquing it can cause the howling noise and premature failure of the tensioner. dan's page has a pretty good description of the procedure that really only differs from the bentley's with regards to tools used (as many of us don't own the vw specific tools).


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

wow ok i read into that a bit too much. 

ya before i was not doing it to spec because i didn't know it mattered.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

fixed the tensioner and no difference. 

call the previous owner and talked to hm for a while to see f he had done any work or anything that could give me a clue. he said he replaced the crank pulley bolt. he also said he didn't torque it to a specific spec. 

so since its a stretch bolt i need to replace it correct? 

which way do i need to turn it? is it one of the ones that go in and out the opposite way because they are turning? 

and does any one know what would be fastest way to get my hands on one? cant find any local stores that have them only online.


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

so he's referring to the pulley bolt*s* right? there are 4 and they should be replaced. they're standard thread, but make sure to really get the bit into them good because the heads strip pretty easy. if he's talking about the main that mounts the pulley and sprocket to the crank thats a bit different and way more work to properly reinstall. as far as where to get them i've always gone to the dealership (crappy i know) they usually have them in stock and the price is a fair trade for waiting. as far as the tensioner goes if it was over-torqued it could be just shot now and in need of replacement. you might have to consider that as well. they're really not an expensive piece though and if it were me i'd rather have the peace of mind than worry that it may be bad and fail on me while on the highway.


----------



## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

worldimpex.com has the crank bolt, if you need it.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

ya he was talking about the main. i already removed the stater and had a go at removing it. just wasn't sure which way to loosen it. i know this might seem stupid but i know that sometimes screws that end up turning during their usage some time are reversed so they don't undo themselves during usage. did a bunch of searching and found nothing about direction to turn. 

and thanks every one, again, i will call dealer/stealer ship tomorrow and see how far and how much for it. 

also check out that site see whats better


----------



## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Regular thread.


----------



## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

akid420 said:


> ya he was talking about the main.


replace, its a pain to do but definitely necessary.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

ya i assumed it was necessary from what i have read. just wasn't sure which way to remove and didn't want to the head off.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

i replaced the crank pulley bolt and torqued it to spec, along with the tensioner bolt/nut. 

started it and theirs no difference. noise/whine still really loud. along with engine light.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

talked to the PO to find out why he changed the crank pulley bolt in first place. he said when he did the timing on his car he left the socket and wrench on the bolt and then tried to start the car. this caused the bolt to unscrew itself and pop out. 

i don't know a lot of detail because all i know is what he told me. 

so i'm wondering if this could mess something up like a bearing or something?

i dot know any help would be great been stuck on this car for too long.


----------



## mars-red (Mar 2, 2004)

Hm, let me take a stab at this. I love puzzles. First we'll see how my House skills are: the check engine light is on because of your hall sensor signal wire (between the connector at the sensor and the connector at the ECU there is either no continuity or very high resistance). The noise is your water pump.

As far as actually troubleshooting, instead of me just trying to make awesome guesses:

Check engine light: You verified that the hall sender (aka camshaft position sensor) is getting voltage, but there's more to it then that. I bet you have a problem with the signal wire. Use your wiring diagrams from the Bentley to do continuity checks for all the wires going from the hall sensor connector back to the ECU. For each wire, you should have continuity and low resistance. My gut is telling me the signal wire is going to either be open (no continuity at all) or have really high resistance. Furthermore, if your timing was causing the CEL, it would have the implausible signal message and not the missing signal message.

The noise: Take off all your belts. Don't worry, baby, everyone is doing it - and besides, I won't put the pictures up on the internet, I swear. Seriously though, take off all your belts except the timing belt so that you are no longer driving the AC compressor, water pump, alternator, power steering pump, and anything else I forgot to mention. Try turning those accessories by hand to see if you hear any noises or feel any roughness. If they all feel nice and smooth when you turn them by hand, then start up the engine just for a couple of seconds, just long enough to see if the noise is still there. I bet it won't be, but if it is then it's coming from the engine or transmission. If the noise actually is coming from the engine or the tranny, then put all your belts back on and start the car back up - see if the noise goes away when you push in the clutch. If the noise does not go away, then it's not the transmission input shaft bearings, otherwise it probably is. At this point we have it narrowed down to either the engine or the accessories. If it's the engine then, well, you can check for easy stuff like a sprocket rubbing against one of the seal housings or something - this kind of noise isn't your usual bottom end problem. If the noise went away with your accessories disconnected, as I suspect it will have, then you just need to figure out which one it was. The alternator is easy, you can tell if that's going to make noise just turning it by hand - it should turn real free and smooth. The AC compressor, as long as the AC clutch is disengaged (it should be, with the ignition turned off), should turn real easy and smooth. I've never tried to turn a power steering pump by hand, with all the hydraulic lines hooked up to it, but that might not be very easy. The water pump will probably have a little resistance, but should still feel smooth. The nature of your noise leads me to believe that if it is the water pump then you may not notice anything unusual turning it slowly by hand. I once had a water pump with a toasted bearing that made a horrible squealing racket. A little bit of the coolant seeped into it and when it turned at higher rpms than I could do by hand, the coolant would start to vaporize in the bearing. It didn't make noise at all when i turned it by hand, just felt like there was a little more resistance than there should have been. I replaced it with a cheap on from Autozone, it was one that had just the pump not the whole housing - and the impeller actually rubbed against the housing after I installed it - I ended up having to clearance the housing a little bit, using a file.

Let us know what you find!


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

thanks a lot for the response

Engine light: In the works of getting a Bentley manual. 

Noise: Took off all the belts again and ran it but noise did not change. The car is currently held up so i was not only able to push the clutch in but also was able to put it in drive and go through the gears with the engine on. That did not change the sound whatsoever so does this mean its an engine problem? This might seem like a dumbass question but when you say check the sprocket and if its rubbing on the seals, are you talking about where the crankshaft comes out of the engine block? And if so should i remove the pulley and the stretch bolt and then crank the car while watching it turn? 

sorry again if i sound like a dumbass but im a kid and still learning from lots of trial and error, be considerate please


----------



## mars-red (Mar 2, 2004)

akid420 said:


> thanks a lot for the response
> 
> Engine light: In the works of getting a Bentley manual.
> 
> ...


No worries, my friend - most people wouldn't even be willing to go as far as you have with this already. Getting a Bentley is key - but until that arrives, we should be able to figure out this noise. Sounds like the noise is engine related, unless there is something else we have overlooked.

Here is a simple thing to try: With the engine running, see if you can make the sound change by putting your hands on the valve cover/intake manifold and rocking the engine around against the mounts.

The sprocket thing I mentioned was possible interference between the timing belt sprockets and the aluminum housings behind then, that retain the oil seals. The exception there is the cam sprocket - the seal is retained by the cylinder head itself and the #1 cam bearing cap. The other sprockets have aluminum plates behind them that are bolted onto the engine block. Behind those plates are the oil seals (for front crank and intermediate shaft). It's a long shot, but worth checking to see whether any of the timing sprockets are rubbing - for the cam sprocket, see if it's rubbing against the cylinder head or valve cover, and for the intermediate and crank sprocket, see if they are rubbing against the oil seal plates. To check this you will need to remove the timing belt covers, timing belt, and the v-belt pulley attached to the crank sprocket. I had an adjustable cam gear once that interfered with the edges of my valve cover and it sounded pretty gnarly - but like I said it would be a pretty long shot for factory sprockets to be interfering with anything.

Since you'll have the timing belt off anyway, try turning each sprocket individually to see if you can feel anything suspicious either with the bearings or sprocket interference. The intermediate shaft is easy, it just drives the distributor - take off the distributor cap and spin the intermediate sprocket around by hand - it should feel pretty nice. For checking the cam and crank, the safe way is to hook the timing belt back up and pull out your spark plugs, then see how it feels when you turn things - but it would be nice to turn the crank and cam separately. Pull the spark plugs so the bottom end will rotate without fighting the compression, and set the crank so that all the pistons are in the middle of their travel. That should let you spin the cam around without any danger of valve/piston interference (turn slowly and gently at first, to ensure the valves and pistons will stay clear of each other). It should feel smooth (except for the valves suddenly snapping shut if you spin it quickly), though the resistance will obviously vary quite a bit as the cam lobes actuate the valves. There shouldn't be any noise other than the snapping shut of the valves. You may be able to find a position for the camshaft where you will be able to do a similar test on the bottom end (if you end up wanting to take the camshaft out altogether, then make sure you follow the proper procedure otherwise you will damage the cylinder head and/or camshaft). Again, use caution when turning the bottom end with the timing belt disconnected, to avoid valve/piston contact. The bottom end should turn free and smooth, with no other sound than the sound of the piston rings scraping the cylinder walls, and air escaping from the spark plug holes.

That reminds me - check for compression leaks around your spark plugs before you do any of the above. I've never heard what kind of noise that would make, but it's something to check at least. The plugs on the ABA motors aren't terribly accessible but maybe you can come up with some clever trick to easily check this - like getting the car out of any wind/breeze, and sprinkling something for fine dust (I mean really fine, like some graphite powder maybe) around the plugs, see if it blows around. Perhaps misting them with a spray bottle full of water would help tell too.

I have another trick up my sleeve, if necessary, but see what kind of luck you have with the above first.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

ok thanks for the more tests i will be doing them this weekend. but i did notice something while i was toying around with the noise.

so with no belts on but the timing belt i ran the engine. then with the round end of the tire iron i applied a bit of pressure on timing belt between the cam pulley/gear and distributor pulley/gear this caused the noise to almost fully go away. 

but then when i put the belt for the alternator back on and tried the same trick it did not work. 

i know this might not point to anything specific but thought i would share.

as i stated i will run all those diagnostics and report back.

again thanks a lot to all who are helping i wouldn't have gotten half as far


----------



## mars-red (Mar 2, 2004)

akid420 said:


> ok thanks for the more tests i will be doing them this weekend. but i did notice something while i was toying around with the noise.
> 
> so with no belts on but the timing belt i ran the engine. then with the round end of the tire iron i applied a bit of pressure on timing belt between the cam pulley/gear and distributor pulley/gear this caused the noise to almost fully go away.
> 
> ...


Interesting - that reminds me, the timing belt tensioner pulley should be a suspect as well. It should feel perfectly smooth, with no grittiness or noise. When they're new there's a little bit of stiffness to them, and they loosen up a little as they are run. Whether it feels perfectly free or has a little bit of resistance, it should still feel smooth with no play.

EDIT: Hey, how are you tensioning your timing belt, anyway? That noise does sound like it could possibly be caused by an extremely over-tensioned timing belt. In my experience, most people over-tension them a little (usually that just gives a very mild whining noise, if anything). Did you get your Bentley book yet? Even if you follow the procedure in that book it's easy to overtension. When it is properly tensioned, you should be able to grab the section of the timing belt that runs from the cam sprocket to the intermediate sprocket (the section of belt closest to the front of the engine bay) and *easily* twist the belt 90 degrees. The bentley book leaves out the easily part. Back in the day, I started off tensioning my timing belts so that I could barely twist the belt by 90 degrees and I always had a little bit of a whining sound - my tensioner pulleys also never lasted very long. After a couple of years I started letting up on the tension so that the belt was easier to twist. The noise went away, and my tensioner pulley lasted forever. The belt should run quietly when properly tensioned. You may have to take a few stabs at it to get it just right - obviously you don't want it too loose either.


----------



## akid420 (Apr 23, 2009)

alright well after turning all three pulley/gears i realized the distributor one was scrapping something. then noticed a floppy piece of sheet metal that's supposed to be a cover or shield i think. the point is i got rid of the annoying noise. 

now all i got is the engine light. i bought the manual a while back from craigslist but still haven't received it in the mail and starting to feel like its not coming. nothing i can try till it comes or i get another one?


----------



## tacurong (Jul 13, 2009)

*CAm Belt timing*

You may be using the wrong side of the camshaft pulley from the bently it should be a small dot flush with your valve cover[ when all marks are lined up at TDC as it appears in your photos,] looking at the side closest to the cover [] . --- pulley then dot then valvecover


----------



## Rot In hell0 (Sep 6, 2009)

I am in the same boat, I have a '98 Jetta. It has not been starting, taking a few cranks to start, since it got cold out. Yesterday the vacuum line broke so I fixed that (thinking that it was cracked and that caused the poor starting) and I put in a new battery. Now it started after a few cranks after that, then I waited an hour and it fired right up after a few seconds. Today I went to run to the store and it will not start at all, my dad is saying it is the fuel pump, is there anything else I should check? (sorry for grammar, I'm posting from an iPod)


----------

