# Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio



## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

This discussion was culled from the RNS-510 retrofit thead. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4207134
Please keep the tone of this discussion civil, thank you...

_Modified by mark_d_drake at 11:43 PM 2-3-2009_


_Modified by mark_d_drake at 11:58 PM 2-3-2009_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_Has VW fixed the problem yet with the RNS-510 refusing to play or display HD Radio stations?


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quality_sound* »_Only if they started making the 510 with an HD tuner.
Why does everyone think all radios can play HD Radio?


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sparkstack* »_
I'm guessing you don't know what the RNS-510 is capable of doing. It does play HD radio...


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quality_sound* »_
No, I just forgot this was a US 510 and not an Euro version. Oops.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_
In theory it is supposed to play HD radio stations. But, I have yet to see one actually do so. VW really screwed up the implementation of HD radio on the RNS-510. Even the manual only mentions HD radio in one or two sentences and fails to explain how to use it.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sparkstack* »_







It's not a theory, it's a fact. I should know, i was listening to a goddamn HD channel this morning. Do i need to take a picture?
Furthermore, there are quite a few threads dotted around both the Vortex and other sites that quite clearly show the unit receiving HD channels. Out of curiosity, did you enable (check the box) in the settings, under radio, the option for HD radio? if you didn't, then you aren't gonna get any.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Please post few pictures how you change the HD radio sub-channels.
The fact that you see HD logo on the screen does not mean a thing. HD radio is all about sub-channels.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sparkstack* »_
Nice try hotshot. However nobody mentioned anything about sub-channels. *owr084* stated that it doesn't play HD radio. That statement was incorrect.

Now you're just being silly. That's like saying Digital TV is all about sub-channels. Sorry but no. I don't want to listen to a variation of my favorite radio station any more than i want to watch ABC in Espanol. I just want to listen to my favorate station in HD and contrary to your beliefs the RNS-510 allows me to do so.
And do you really think that all the radio is doing is showing me a HD logo but playing the FM frequency? Laughable. 

_Modified by mark_d_drake at 11:27 PM 2-3-2009_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
Right. Except for the HD Radio standard







.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sparkstack* »_
Ok. Now your really being silly, and disrupting the main scope of this thread. I've got a HDTV, but it only displays 720p. I guess in your world that means that the TV isn't a HDTV, as it doesn't do 1080i or 1080p, both of which are part of the HDTV standard. 
The RNS-510 plays HD Radio. The end. 



_Modified by mark_d_drake at 11:36 PM 2-3-2009_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quality_sound* »_
Negative Ghost Rider. Normally I'm in agreeance with just about everything you post, however, a quick look on HDRadio.com and a list of HD stations in my area brings up the list in the link and very few of them are sub channels.
http://www.hdradio.com/find_an...n.php



_Modified by mark_d_drake at 11:37 PM 2-3-2009_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*

I'll look into this when I get back. With HD Enabled I have the HD ICON while listening to
San Francisco, CA 106.9 KFRC-HD FM News CBS Radio 
Hoewver from the list above it appears there is a sub channel available on this band, which I've not seen..
San Francisco, CA 106.9-2 KFRC-HD2 FM Classic Hits CBS Radio 
When I get back from Moscow / Prague I'll take a look


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_
I am beginning to think there is a difference in firmware between the various units. I'm betting that sparkstack has the newest version, while a lot of the older units do not.
Oh and sparkstack, when you go and make absolute statements like *"It's not a theory, it's a fact. I should know, i was listening to a goddamn HD channel this morning. Do i need to take a picture?" * Then you should not complain when others PROVE YOU WRONG! I know for a fact that Maloosheck's RNS-510 cannot properly receive HD signals. I was there and we tried every setup page. A bit of googling and you can find cases of early adopters not being able to get HD. Finally, what did an HD channel do for you to call God to damn it?
















_Modified by owr084 at 8:14 AM 2-3-2009_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
I am very happy you are happy with your RNS-510 HD radio performance. I think VW is even happier. They sold you sth that is half working and convinced you it works as it should.
Anyway, I see no point of continuing this discussion: you are convinced rns plays HD radio, I am not.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sparkstack* »_
Correct. My unit has the 0320 firmware.

Looks like i need that picture after all. My unit plays HD radio. I admit that it doesn't know anything about sub channels, but that wasn't what *you* said. You said it doesn't play HD Radio. Period. You sir, are the one who has been proven to be wrong. Whilst on the topic of sub channels, i fail to see why everyone is getting so bent out of shape about them. Sub channels are bad. Each station only has a specific amount of digital bandwidth available and the more they divide that bandwidth into sub channels the worse the sound quality of each channel gets. How is that a good thing? 

Hmm. Yes i am very happy with it thanks. HD radio is pretty solid though i didn't get it from VW so while i like to think they are happy i have no idea if that is the case... 

You know, maybe you're correct. Maybe, rather that designing and implementing a HD radio into the RNS-510 they just stuck the logo on the top right corner of the screen and magically made the stations clearer and processed the AM stations so they sound like FM broadcasts. Yeah that's much more plausible.








Geez.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_Sparkstack - 
Here is a listing from hdradio.com for all the stations in the Chicagoland area (I am assuming that Naperville is your home) that broadcast HD Radio signals. Just because your HD radio indicator lights up does not mean it is PLAYING an HD radio signal. If you are only receiving a station, say for example WMBI-HD, then you are receiving the same signal that a normal FM radio gets. You are not getting an HD station. HD radio stations are those that have a "-" after the frequency (i.e., 90.1-2, 90.1-3, etc.). If you cannot receive the sub-channels, then you are not receiving HD radio stations.
So, are you receiving ANY of the sub-channels or not?
Chicago, IL 90.1 WMBI-HD FM Religion Moody Bible Institute
Chicago, IL 90.1-2 WMBI-HD2 FM Praise & Worship Moody Bible Institute
Chicago, IL 90.1-3 WMBI-HD3 FM His Kids Radio Moody Bible Institute
Chicago, IL 90.9 WDCB-HD FM Jazz/News College Of Du Page
Chicago, IL 91.5 WBEZ-HD FM Nws/Tlk/Inf Chicago Public Radio
Chicago, IL 92.3 WPWX-HD FM Urban Crawford Broadcasting Company
Chicago, IL 93.1 WXRT-HD FM AAA CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 93.1-2 WXRT-HD2 FM XRT New Music CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 93.9 WLIT-HD FM AC Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 93.9-2 WLIT-HD2 FM Disco 70s Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 94.7 WLS-HD FM Oldies Citadel
Chicago, IL 94.7-2 WLS-HD2 FM WLS-AM Citadel
Chicago, IL 95.5 WNUA-HD FM Smooth Jazz Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 95.5-2 WNUA-HD2 FM Traditional Jazz Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 95.9 WERV-HD FM Clsc Hits NextMedia
Chicago, IL 95.9-2 WERV-HD2 FM The Rapids NextMedia
Chicago, IL 96.3 WBBM-HD FM CHR CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 96.3-2 WBBM-HD2 FM Dance CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 96.7 WSSR-HD FM AC NextMedia
Chicago, IL 96.9 WWDV-HD FM Classic Rock Bonneville International Corp.
Chicago, IL 96.9-2 WWDV-HD2 FM Deep Tracks Bonneville International Corp.
Chicago, IL 97.1 WDRV-HD FM Classic Rock Bonneville International Corp.
Chicago, IL 97.1-2 WDRV-HD2 FM Deep Tracks Bonneville International Corp.
Chicago, IL 97.9 WLUP-HD FM Rock Emmis
Chicago, IL 97.9-2 WLUP-HD2 FM Loop Loud Emmis
Chicago, IL 97.9-3 WLUP-HD3 FM South Asian Emmis
Chicago, IL 99.5 WUSN-HD FM Country CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 99.5-2 WUSN-HD2 FM Chicago's Future Country CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 99.5-3 WUSN-HD3 FM Trucker CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 100.3 WILV-HD FM AC/Urb/Old Bonneville International Corp.
Chicago, IL 100.3-2 WILV-HD2 FM Love Songs Bonneville International Corp.
Chicago, IL 101.1 WKQX-HD FM Alternative Emmis
Chicago, IL 101.1-2 WKQX-HD2 FM Punk Young Alternative Emmis
Chicago, IL 101.9 WTMX-HD FM AC Bonneville International Corp.
Chicago, IL 101.9-2 WTMX-HD2 FM The 80�s Channel Bonneville International Corp.
Chicago, IL 102.3 WYCA-HD FM Gospel Crawford Broadcasting Company
Chicago, IL 102.7 WVAZ-HD FM Urban AC Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 102.7-2 WVAZ-HD2 FM Gospel - WGRB-AM Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 103.5 WKSC-HD FM CHR Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 103.5-2 WKSC-HD2 FM Pride Radio Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 104.3 WJMK-HD FM Jack CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 104.3-2 WJMK-HD2 FM Oldies 60's/70's CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 105.1 WOJO-HD FM Mexican Univision Radio
Chicago, IL 105.1-2 WOJO-HD2 FM Planeta 105 Univision Radio
Chicago, IL 105.1-3 WOJO-HD3 FM Spanish News Univision Radio
Chicago, IL 105.5 WZSR-HD FM AC NextMedia
Chicago, IL 105.9 WCFS-HD FM AC CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 105.9-2 WCFS-HD2 FM News CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 106.3 WSRB-HD FM Urban AC Crawford Broadcasting Company
Chicago, IL 106.7 WPPN-HD FM Spanish AC Univision Radio
Chicago, IL 106.7-2 WPPN-HD2 FM Spanish Univision Radio
Chicago, IL 107.5 WGCI-HD FM Urban Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 107.5-2 WGCI-HD2 FM Old School Hip Hop Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 670 WSCR-HD AM Sprts/Talk CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 780 WBBM-HD AM News CBS Radio
Chicago, IL 890 WLS-HD AM News/Talk Citadel
Chicago, IL 1000 WMVP-HD AM Sports ESPN Radio
Chicago, IL 1200 WRTO-HD AM Spn/Tlk/Nws Univision Radio
Chicago, IL 1300 WRDZ-HD AM Family Hits Radio Disney
Chicago, IL 1390 WGRB-HD AM Black Gospl Clear Channel
Chicago, IL 1690 WVON-HD AM Talk Clear Channel

_Modified by owr084 at 1:54 PM 2-3-2009_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sparkstack* »_
That paragraph of yours is wrong on so many different levels I'm having trouble figuring out where to start. Lets start with the one thing you did get right: 
Yes i do live in Naperville.
Now back to the remainder. Lets look at the HD Radio Indicator. From the manual:

So far so good. Now, to the bit you seem hell bent on ignoring. I've highlighted the key points in bold to help you.
Hopefully that makes it clear for you, but to make it even simpler for you to understand, IF THE LOGO IS LIT YOU'RE LISTENING TO A HD BROADCAST.
Now consider the image below:








I did try and get an image from the AM station below it, but it would appear Naperville is outside of the digital reception area. I know it works near my office, so i will edit this post with a picture of the HD radio logo on an AM broadcast tomorrow.
Now i can see why you are confused about this. For some reason you seem to think that radio stations only broadcast HD streams on the sub channels and as the RNS-510 doesn't play sub channels, that makes you conclude that the radio doesn't play HD Streams. However you're assumption is incorrect. 
Lets take a closer look at the HD station guide you posted. I've chosen 93.1 as that is the station i listen to daily. Again i'll bold the important bits..

So, as you can see the Main channel broadcasts in HD, hence why my radio recives it in HD and lights the HD logo. Still not convinced?
Take a closer look a the table of stations you posted. You will note that there are quite a few that have *no sub channels at all.* By your logic that means they don't broadcast in HD, and therefore shouldn't be on the list. 
Finally, you will notice on the list of stations that you posted are quite a few AM bands. AM stations are, for the most part, mono and full of static. How come then, when I'm in the digital reception area for 890 AM it transforms itself to crystal clear stereo and the HD logo comes on? According to you, because it doesn't broadcast any sub channels it isn't broadcasting in HD....









_Modified by sparkstack at 7:11 PM 2-3-2009_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_Can you or can you not receive audio from Chicago, IL 93.1-2 WXRT-HD2 FM XRT New Music CBS Radio? If you can't then you are NOT getting the full benefits of HD radio. The RNS-510s that I have seen, cannot play any of the sub channels due to a bad firmware and/or a complete screwup by VW.
Yes, the top station is a digital signal, but the programming is the same as the analog signal. So, you have the benefit of a cleaner signal. In others words, a glorified FM and AM radio. But, you still cannot receive the sub-channels and that is what HD-radio is all about if you are to believe their ads/website - more programming and more formats. 
And you can check out the thread here http://vwnavi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9710 about the 0320 firmware upgrade and how it DOES NOT fix the HD sub channel problem.
So, to recap - fine, I'll concede that the signal you receive when the HD indicator comes on is digital, i.e., HD signal. BUT, the RNS-510 cannot receive the HD sub-channels AT ALL. The bottom line is that the RNS-510 is just barely better than a regular analog AM/FM radio and is not a good HD radio because it cannot receive the sub-channels, which any basic HD radio should be capable of.

_Modified by owr084 at 9:33 PM 2-3-2009_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sparkstack* »_


owr084 said:


> Can you or can you not receive audio from Chicago, IL 93.1-2 WXRT-HD2 FM XRT New Music CBS Radio?






owr084 said:


> How many times are you going to ask this question? I've told you multiple times now i can't get sub channels. I don't have a magic version of the RNS-510. I have the same one as everyone else.
> 
> _Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_If you can't then you are NOT getting the full benefits of HD radio. The RNS-510s that I have seen, cannot play any of the sub channels due to a bad firmware and/or a complete screwup by VW.
> 
> ...



_Modified by mark_d_drake at 11:56 PM 2-3-2009_


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Discussion of RNS-510 and HD-Radio (mark_d_drake)*

My 2 cents: I recently added an HD tuner to my head unit. I was not impressed at all. In fact, I thought the HD main station sounded worse in my application. It reminding me of simulated stereo. Now, that may have been the HD tuner, who knows. On top of poorer sound quality as compared to the FM tuner I could tell when the HD was dropping out allowing regular FM to take over. In addition, the HD sub-channels are not all that. In fact, most sounded noticeably worse. Nothing at all like Satellite. This is due, as previously stated, to limited bandwidth allocation for each station. I remember reading some time ago that the HD in HD Radio does not stand for High Definition. It's clearly an attempt at deception. Not even the main channel has CD quality. I just found this from a FAQ from Cruchfield.com:

_Quote »_
Q: What does "HD" stand for?
A: Originally, the initials stood for "hybrid-digital," because the digital signals were carried with the analog wave. According to iBiquity Digital Corporation, that's been changed, and the letters "HD" now don't stand for anything. Some articles and news stories have erroneously assumed that "HD" stands for "high definition," which has contributed to the confusion between HD Radio technology and High-definition TV.


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## sparkstack (Jan 3, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Your 2c are pretty much spot on. Currently the more sub channels a broadcaster sends the less bandwidth each channel has and the worse they all will sound. That may change in the future if the FCC allows the stations to stop transmitting the analogue signal, but my guess is we are quite a few years away from that happening.
I haven't listened to many stations that broadcast HD in the Chicago area, but the one i do listen to sounds pretty good and personally, i can tell a difference. It should be noted though that they only broadcast one sub channel.
The AM broadcasts in HD sound pretty good though.


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## TDI_Dunc (Oct 16, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (sparkstack)*

There are lots of sub-channels (or multicasts as the HD Radio coalition refers to them) in the Philadelphia market, but the RNS-510 can't receive any of them. VW's implementation of HD radio only receives the primary station. The other annoying thing about the RNS-510 is that the streaming information (station, artist, song, etc.) doesn't work. The RNS-510 captures the info when you first switch to a new station but does not update it when the next song plays. Surely VW will have a firmware upgrade for this head unit, as they've really dropped the ball.
Dunc


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## hdradioguy53 (Sep 10, 2010)

*Quicker Way*

Well, I love my HD Radio. Its awesome. I really appreciate this list and wanted to throw "my hat" in the ring ( so to speak) as to additional HD Radio resources.

You can find HD Radio stations here by selecting your city. The search tool will bring back all HD radio stations.

Hope this helps! :thumbup:


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## FL_Eos (Aug 21, 2010)

^Your awesome. Thanks for the link.


Does anyone know how to update firmware? Does it automatically download via sat link or does one have to use a SD card via/ download from internet then install into headunit.


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

My RNS-510 can tune the HD Radio sub-channels, but it is newer hardware with the 1XXX firmware


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