# 2.5 super charged stand alone help



## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

I am trying to do a 2.5 supercharged and run standalone. I need help with details on questions the company is asking. I have no experience with stand alone and this is my first project any help would be great! I will copy and paste email with questions. 


Hi sir thank you for the enquiry, yes we can help yes Gotech will work perfect,how 
can we assist ? Shawn

Sent from Shawn's iPhone

On 12 Jun 2013, at 2:30, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> A visitor to www.shawntec.com has sent a message through your form.
> 
> Customer contact: Main customer contact form
> 
> First & Last Name: : keith lowery
> Email: : 
> Contact Number: : N/A
> Engine Management System? : Dont Know
> Amount of Cylinders ? : 5
> Type of Trigger ? : Crank Speed Sensor
> Fuel ? : Full Sequential Injection
> Spark ? : Full Sequential Spark
> Engine Make / Series ? (Honda B16A) : volkswagen rabbit 2.5l
> Outputs Required ? : Dont know
> Plug and Play option Required ? : Dont Know
> Other Products Required ? : Crank Speed Sensor
> Comments: : looking for stand alone for this engine adding supercharger to it, I am 
installing it in a and will need to build my own engine harness too
>


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

Just curious, why do you want to go standalone vs the stock ECU? 

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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

First off, Same questions as KillerBunny. No real need for standalone just because you are doing a SC. Unless this is a swap, but it still might be easier to just use a stock ecu (ME17 or ME17.5 depending on the year).
I have, as far as I know, the only supercharged 2.5 right now and I am running a custom file from C2 motorsports on the stock ecu. I was also able to run there off the shelf FI tune. 

Either way I would be interested in seeing a build thread if you make one. Good luck :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Judging by the information you have filled out in your first post- you will need major professional help to get a 2.5L running on standalone. These engines aren't exactly simple ones unless you start throwing out a lot of the OE functionality. 

So- another vote for the OE box.


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*stand alone*

ok.......tell me im stupid but I wanna drop the 2.5 in my 1991 Passat wagon. and yes I know its not a dropin. I have a Mercedes eaton m45, and yes I know im gonna get ragged on for that too. just figured it might be easier to do stand alone over a complete dash and electrical swap. not interested in all the little bells and whistles just simplicity. was trying to do something different I know ill get ridiculed but that's what I want no vr no 2.0t just a freaky 5 cylinder reject.........like my wagon. so wheres the love now my secret is out. hillbillies aren't really stupid just different. ok anybody wanna help a freak?


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*stand alone*

yeah throw out the oe functionality...........way out! yes I will once I get further into the project do a build thread.........ok everybody hop on board! on the funky train!


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

For a stand alone with the best and most support available, that would be MS. I would think the MS2 or 3 chip. MS2 has plenty of options and can be full sequential on both fuel and spark. Seems you had better start reading and by the time you get the mechanical figured out and installed, you'll be ready to tackle the electrical.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

You're going to need a bigger charger than the m45. That charger is barely large enough for a 2.0 8v. I have a m62 on a stroked 1.8t and it's barely big enough. You're not going to want a smaller charger than a m90 on the 2.5.


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*stand alone*

thanks for the encouraging news pat. anybody out there wanna swap a m45 for a m90?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> You're going to need a bigger charger than the m45. That charger is barely large enough for a 2.0 8v. I have a m62 on a stroked 1.8t and it's barely big enough. You're not going to want a smaller charger than a m90 on the 2.5.


Ill agree with everything but your last statement. A M62 will work on a 2.5 and make decent power, but that is the smallest you should go. Although a M90 would be a better choice. 

You could probably sell the m45 and with the same money get a m62 or m90. M90s wont fit in a rabbit/jetta but might in your passat. 

Here is a graph with a m62 showing the power that can be had. This was with a 3in pulley, and the power ended up around 260 something with a 2.6in pulley but I cant find that graph.


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*stand alone*

thanks. Ill post it on ebay and buy an m90 or m62..........let the games begin!


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*stand alone*

thanks. Ill post it on ebay and buy an m90 or m62..........let the games begin!


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

xdoktor said:


> thanks. Ill post it on ebay and buy an m90 or m62..........let the games begin!


There's a newer version of the M62 that's a lot more efficient. I can't remember the name right now, but it'll make decent power and hella torque.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> There's a newer version of the M62 that's a lot more efficient. I can't remember the name right now, but it'll make decent power and hella torque.


But they wont be anywhere as cheap as a standard M62 
Gen 4 eaton MP62 would make more power and so would a harrop TVS HTV1320



At OP. You if you are looking for a M62 check the cobalt forums. They let them go cheap when going to turbo and they have ceramic coated rotors from the factory.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> But they wont be anywhere as cheap as a standard M62
> Gen 4 eaton MP62 would make more power and so would a harrop TVS HTV1320
> 
> 
> ...


Do you not have a pick-your-part lot nearby? The ones closest to me price blowers by size, not age.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Do you not have a pick-your-part lot nearby? The ones closest to me price blowers by size, not age.


Ive never seen a MP62 or TVS blower on a car in a junkyard before.... 
If you are talking about just a newer version of a M62 that is a different story. The supercharger I have is the newest gen of M62 (Gen 5 from a 05 cobalt ss)




OP here is a link that has a vehicle list and the superchargers that come on them.
http://victorylibrary.com/supercharger/super-eaton-data.htm


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Ive never seen a MP62 or TVS blower on a car in a junkyard before....
> If you are talking about just a newer version of a M62 that is a different story. The supercharger I have is the newest gen of M62 (Gen 5 from a 05 cobalt ss)


No clue which cars the newer TVS units are on. I'm down the road from a big LKQ lot, so I'm sure that skews my view on whats readily available. The pick your part side is stupid cheap, whereas once they take it off the car, they'll charge a premium based on OE pricing.


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*stand alone*

no pick a part..........damn it. yeah they are cheap. thanks for all the input. still in the way early stage of the build. plenty of time to source a blower. how am I gonna fair with stock head gasket and internals? that's why I kinda was gonna use low boost with the m45, anybody know what kinda boost they produce? like to have about 12psi?


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

xdoktor said:


> no pick a part..........damn it. yeah they are cheap. thanks for all the input. still in the way early stage of the build. plenty of time to source a blower. how am I gonna fair with stock head gasket and internals? that's why I kinda was gonna use low boost with the m45, anybody know what kinda boost they produce? like to have about 12psi?


Midloti is making roughly 200WTQ and upwards of 250WHP on the stock internals with an M60 blower IIRC. An M45 is way too small for this motor --it's really too small for an 8v 2.0L Zetec, so it's futile IMHO to even bother mounting an M45 to a 20v 2.5L i5.

If you're going to do this, don't bother going smaller than an M60 --an M90 is probably the better size if your engine bay fits the sucker.


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*stand alone*

ok, I get it m90 or go home. I am on a mission.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

~12psi is what I am running with the 2.6in pulley which is ragging out the sc at the upper end of the rpm range. If you pm me your email address I will send you a spreadsheet another guy on here and I made that will help with supercharger sizing, what size pulleys and what power you should expect.... If you would like.

As for the internals, there are turbo guys pushing 400 with the right tune and stock internals. The first thing that will go is your clutch if that isnt something you are upgrading in the swap. The increased power from the cold weather is making my stock clutch start to slip when I get on it.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> The first thing that will go is your clutch if that isnt something you are upgrading in the swap. The increased power from the cold weather is making my stock clutch start to slip when I get on it.


For the stock 02J-B/0A4 trans, I'm pretty sure the best clutch is a VR6 conversion kit from FourSeasonTuning. You can get any aftermarket VR6 clutch you want and the flywheel is lighter --which is all the better since you'll get more of that power down to the ground and rev up quicker.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

For a standalone- we can supply a Vi-pec pre-configured to start / run the 2.5L. We have maps- not for supercharged but for all motor- it'll get you started though. Or, Hank @ Iroz Motorsports can set you up with a VEMS. I wouldn't buy something that you have to configure from scratch if this is your first standalone project- it'd be a bit of a learning curve with the DBW and all. 

Cheers,


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> For a standalone- we can supply a Vi-pec pre-configured to start / run the 2.5L. We have maps- not for supercharged but for all motor- it'll get you started though. Or, Hank @ Iroz Motorsports can set you up with a VEMS. I wouldn't buy something that you have to configure from scratch if this is your first standalone project- it'd be a bit of a learning curve with the DBW and all.
> 
> Cheers,


With standalone, can't he just convert to drive by cable? It's doable on many other cars --is anything preventing someone running a custom intake mani for a blower from attaching a cable TB?


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*stand alone*

thanks to all! email will be pm'ed. yeah I wanna run a throttle cable if possible. found a tvs r 1900 on ebay for a steal, will it work, is it big enough? thanks pete at IE I will contact you about what you have to offer. once again all input is valued!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Yes, you could convert to drive by cable. 

I would never do it though- drive by wire is far superior.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

way too big. That charger will flow over 70lb/min at 14 psi. The R1320i s a better suited to this motor at 45lb/min


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> way too big. That charger will flow over 70lb/min at 14 psi. The R1320i s a better suited to this motor at 45lb/min


Sounds fun!  Gonna need a big drive belt though. :laugh:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Screw that! Run that bitch right off the flywheel ring gear.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

If this fits, I'll be floored...


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

What engine is that for? Volvo?

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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> What engine is that for? Volvo?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


GM 3.7L i5.

http://www.harrop.com.au/sc_detail.php?prod=HTV1320KIT


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Didn't know that existed. I'm sure it'd fit with an adapter plate and CRX rad and no hood

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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Didn't know that existed. I'm sure it'd fit with an adapter plate and CRX rad and no hood


Stuff it under a big fat hood like this:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Turn that hood 90 degrees and maybe it'll work.

Or extend the front clip out a foot. That'd work too


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Turn that hood 90 degrees and maybe it'll work.

Or extend the front clip out a foot. That'd work too


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

haha. That entire supercharger would be out of the hood. Also a cowl hood like that wouldnt work, or it would have to bulge up like crazy right in the front. 

@ OP Emailing you the spreadsheet now. I added some TVS info for you.


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> GM 3.7L i5.
> 
> http://www.harrop.com.au/sc_detail.php?prod=HTV1320KIT


Good God Almighty! :laugh:
My nephew has a Colorado & will go bat sh*t crazy when he sees this.
The Atlas engine is a long & tall beast, here is a guy that dropped an I-6T into a Supra. 




If you need a good long read, here is his build page


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> If this fits, I'll be floored...


I would totally run that with no hood.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That's really freaking cool. I've been considering picking up a mk3 supra for a while too. I didn't want do a boring LS swap, and it looks like it takes WAAAAAY less work for the i6.... hmmmm


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> That's really freaking cool. I've been considering picking up a mk3 supra for a while too. I didn't want do a boring LS swap, and it looks like it takes WAAAAAY less work for the i6.... hmmmm


How easy do you want it?
He makes a wiring harness & another guy makes an oil pan & trans mount adaptor for any GM bolt pattern.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

no ****? so the only serious parts that needs fabbed is engine mounts? wow


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*2.5 stand alone*

ok. my next question is I need to know the number of teeth on the crank drive sprocket to the intermediate shaft where the vaccum pump mounts also the number of teeth on the rear sprocket of the intermediate shaft not the camshaft drive sprocket. gonna do a vortec style charger and use the vaccum drive to spin it. so I need your help again I don't really want to pull the covers to count them so if you've been there or have a engine apart pleeeeeeeease let me know, thanks and as pics become available I will post them.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

xdoktor said:


> ok. my next question is I need to know the number of teeth on the crank drive sprocket to the intermediate shaft where the vaccum pump mounts also the number of teeth on the rear sprocket of the intermediate shaft not the camshaft drive sprocket. gonna do a vortec style charger and use the vaccum drive to spin it. so I need your help again I don't really want to pull the covers to count them so if you've been there or have a engine apart pleeeeeeeease let me know, thanks and as pics become available I will post them.


PM Pete @ IE.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> PM Pete @ IE.


From my experience he doesnt share info like that very freely. Hope he does but from my experience you would be better finding an individual that has that knowledge. If no one else has the info for you I have a spare motor I could check those teeth numbers for you. But I would prefer not to take the motor apart just yet, but not a big deal if I do.


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## xdoktor (Feb 4, 2005)

*2.5 stand alone*

I got the tooth count on the intermediate shaft, [email protected] sent a pic from his build, his crank is at the machine shop so when he gets it back I think he can get it for me. however if you find out pm it to me please, thanks!


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm probably not going to see my crank for the next 5 months. Work never let up for the season. So....


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> I'm probably not going to see my crank for the next 5 months. Work never let up for the season. So....


My GOD I know how you feel. My build is on hold until ****ing summer right now! Damn you Tech Law! Stealing ALL my hobby time!


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Its good, because I like getting paid, but bad because the next 6-8 weeks I was expecting to have off got cancelled Friday and I have to go to Montana for work for an undetermined amount of time

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