# 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS



## BMEP (Dec 13, 2002)

*2003 Eurovan 24V VR6, 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS! 48K Miles! $18,900*

SOLD
Just wondering if anyone is interested in a 2003 Eurovan GLS, 201 HP 24V VR6 AND a 5 speed MANUAL TRANS. Better fuel economy, more power, more fun and no worries about that awful 4 speed auto trans breaking. 
5 speed conversion performed by East Side VW performance shop in Baltimore. Parts alone cost $7,500. Looks and shifts like it was a factory installation. This must be one of the only 5 speed 24V VR6 Eurovans in the world. 
Techno Blue
48K miles
Bilstein Shocks
H+R Springs
Custom VW Grill in front
I've owned it for 3 1/2 yrs, since 9K miles.
Meticulous maintenance:
Full Synthetic oil changes, 5W-40 Valvoline or Mobil 1, every 5K miles.
CV and rack boots inspected and coated with silicone every oil change.
Trans fluid changed with VW OEM synthetic fluid 2 years ago.
Mileage and maintenance log has every fuel purchase, MPG and maintenance for the last 40K miles.
Bone stock engine, with powertrain warranty for another 12K miles or May 28, 2008. (5 yr, 60K powertrain warranty)
40K service and brake job recently performed: All brake pads, brake fluid flush, spark plugs and air filter just replaced using VW OEM parts.
New Michelin MXV4, 102H tires (high load capacity) 9,700 miles ago.
Excellent interior and exterior condition. Added OEM mud-flaps immediately after purchase. Waxed every fall. Garaged every day. Always parked carefully to avoid door dings. 
I love this van with the 5 speed. Power and fuel economy are amazing (turns only 2450 RPM at 70 mph). Gets about 18-20 around town and 21-26 on the highway. This van has been completely reliable. It has only been to the dealer for the updated coil packs, brake light switch upgrade and a new after-run coolant pump. 
I'm considering building up a 6-speed, turbocharged Chevy Suburban, so it's time to sell the Eurovan. 
So, you may be wondering how much $. 
Edmunds shows about $14,345 for a private party sale. (excellent cond, 48k miles, no sunroof, no heated seats) 
Kelley Blue Book shows about $18,770 for a private party sale. 
But, that's for a miserable 4 speed auto trans Eurovan. 

Trans swap parts = $7,500
Trans labor = ? Many thousands, including ECU reprogramming. 
Grille = $800
Bilstein shocks about $300
H+R springs about $150
Jensen CD/MP3 stereo $200
Trailer Tow package, w/7 pin connector $300
VW OEM Mudflaps, $100
___________
$9,350 in parts upgrades, EXCLUDING LABOR
Assume value of upgraded parts is 2/3 of new. 9,350 X 0.67 = $6,233

Taking the average of Edmunds and KBB = ($14,345 + 18,770) / 2 = $16,558 for an auto trans Eurovan.

$16,558 + $6233 5-speed and upgrades = $22,791

Based on those calculations, the math shows a reasonable price of $22,791.
Asking $18,900. 
Price is negotiable. I am considering reasonable offers. 
_Modified by BMEP at 5:47 AM 1-13-2008_

_Modified by BMEP at 5:50 AM 1-13-2008_

_Modified by BMEP at 5:09 AM 1-15-2008_


_Modified by BMEP at 2:00 AM 12-4-2008_


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## [email protected] (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (BMEP)*

Pics? Price?


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (SMOOTH)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I remember when you first bought this and we all were "WTF? how'd you get a 5-speed?!?!"
I"m not in the market for it but if I were I'm sure it's a fun van to drive!
EDIT: For those not privvy to some of the background or previous discussion on this van, or needing a memory refresh, here's a thread from the past...make sure you see page 2 and not just the 1st page:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1547165


_Modified by gti_matt at 10:07 AM 1-6-2008_


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## BMEP (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (gti_matt)*

Thanks, gti-matt.
You are the master of thread searching. 
Jim


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## VW_Enthu1 (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (BMEP)*

I love the idea of a stick, but $7500 is numbing. Is this parts list available for posting? I would like to research the cost now and to see if there are any options.


_Modified by VW_Enthu1 at 7:20 PM 1-6-2008_


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## AzBarber (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (VW_Enthu1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_Enthu1* »_I love the idea of a stick, but $7500 is numbing. Is this parts list available for posting? I would like to research the cost now and to see if there are any options.


When my auto tranny was replaced by the dealer, the bill was $7000. Another $500 for a manual, which is really what I wanted all along anyway, is a no brainer.
Az


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## VW_Enthu1 (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (AzBarber)*

Valid point - working with that $7K #.


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## n xntrx volvo (Feb 2, 2006)

Couldn't have decided to sell this last month could you. Post some pics (old thread pics dead) so that I can scream some four letter words.


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (VW_Enthu1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_Enthu1* »_I love the idea of a stick, but $7500 is numbing. Is this parts list available for posting? I would like to research the cost now and to see if there are any options.

Over on the yahoo group ev_update, someone has recently gathered and posted up a near-complete parts list for the conversion. So far they're totalling up I believe somewhere around $7000-8000 in parts too. Go join the group (hafto be a member to get to the file) and look in the "files" section there and you'll find the list (I think it's in an excel file).


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (gti_matt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gti_matt* »_Over on the yahoo group ev_update, someone has recently gathered and posted up a near-complete parts list for the conversion. So far they're totalling up I believe somewhere around $7000-8000 in parts too. Go join the group (hafto be a member to get to the file) and look in the "files" section there and you'll find the list (I think it's in an excel file).

Here it is:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/...0Swap/
Hafto be a yahoo member and a member of the ev_update group though to see it.


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## Spectaculiciousness (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (gti_matt)*

well if the parts are 7-8K...how much would labor be? I don't think too many people in here is going to be doing that job themselves.


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## CRAIG1MACK (Mar 26, 2000)

yea, please post the pictures here.


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## Scott Koschwitz (Feb 26, 1999)

*Re: (CRAIG1MACK)*

I am seriously considering this conversion. My wife is OK with the idea (she'd actually prefer a manual), and, budget permitting, I hope to do it in the next year or two.
It's big money, but here's the thought: no T5 TDI manual is coming to the U.S.; that means I intend to keep my T4 as long as possible; I'd like to recover some horsepower and torque lost in the automatic; if you want to boost horsepower and torque, you'll spend $4,500 on a supercharger kit alone; I'd like to increase mpg, too; the best first step to accomplish all of that is to convert to the manual.
I spoke to the guy at Eastside VW who ordered all the parts for the manual in the T4 for sale. Unfortunately, he did not keep his notes of all the parts needed, but will reconstruct a list for the serious customer. He quoted about $7,500 for all the parts.
Mind you, that is for new factory parts. You may be able to save some significant money by importing a used transmission from Europe. I contacted some companies that specialize in importing European parts when I was researching a TDI conversion. These guys could probably get a used manual no problem.
Group buy anyone?


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: (Scott Koschwitz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scott Koschwitz* »_I spoke to the guy at Eastside VW who ordered all the parts for the manual in the T4 for sale. Unfortunately, he did not keep his notes of all the parts needed, but will reconstruct a list for the serious customer.


_Quote, originally posted by *gti_matt* »_http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/...Swap/



_Modified by gti_matt at 9:48 PM 1-12-2008_


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## BMEP (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: (n xntrx volvo)*

Pics are posted.


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## Spectaculiciousness (Oct 11, 2007)

*Re: (BMEP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMEP* »_Pics are posted. 
Holy page scroll Batman!!!


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (gti_matt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gti_matt* »_
Here it is:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/...0Swap/
Hafto be a yahoo member and a member of the ev_update group though to see it.

I downloaded the excel spreadsheet but did not see the transimission model number anywhere on the sheet. I am wondering if it is the same tranny that they use in the 150hp TDI. Living in Europe I should be able to find one and many of the other parts from a strip yard. Do any of you know the tranny model and VW part #? Thanks Mark


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (wilsonm73)*

Never mind. I found that it is an 02B transmission. There are serveral on German ebay rebuilt for as little at $800 bucks. Anyone interested in a little business. If I could figure out a good shipping options I ship a dozen or so back for a small profit.


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (wilsonm73)*

I also found this on the web. It appears from this page that the tranny is the same as used in the I5 2.5 gas motor too in the US?
http://mmerlinn.tripod.com/appsstd/vw/f66vw.htm


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## BMEP (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (wilsonm73)*

The trans is a 02G, with trans code of DYA. The 02B from the 5 cyl gas Eurovans will not work. For quick identification, the 02G does NOT have the stamped cover bolted on the end of the trans like the 02B. 
There are many 02G transaxles, but I believe the only one that will fit in a Eurovan is the DYA. The 02G transaxles used in the cars will not fit. The 02G behind the 5 cyl diesel Eurovan may work, (trans housing is the same as the DYA) but you will need to swap bellhousings since the I5 and VR6 have different bolt patterns/shapes. 
The trans code for the diesel 02G trans is FTV. The final drive ratio of the DYA is 3.905:1, and the FTV is 4.93:1. The FTV will gear the VR6 similar to the 5 cyl gas Eurovan. It will have improved acceleration over the DYA but reduced fuel economy on the highway. 
The DYA in my 03 Eurovan works well and provides a good combination of power and fuel economy. 
So, in your searching for a trans, remember 02G, with trans code DYA, or FTV with a bellhousing swap for really deep gearing. Another tip, the FTV trans was bolted up to the following diesel engines, the AYY and the AYC, maybe others.


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## Seano (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (BMEP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMEP* »_The trans is a 02G, with trans code of DYA. The 02B from the 5 cyl gas Eurovans will not work. For quick identification, the 02G does NOT have the stamped cover bolted on the end of the trans like the 02B. 
There are many 02G transaxles, but I believe the only one that will fit in a Eurovan is the DYA. The 02G transaxles used in the cars will not fit. The 02G behind the 5 cyl diesel Eurovan may work, (trans housing is the same as the DYA) but you will need to swap bellhousings since the I5 and VR6 have different bolt patterns/shapes. 
The trans code for the diesel 02G trans is FTV. The final drive ratio of the DYA is 3.905:1, and the FTV is 4.93:1. The FTV will gear the VR6 similar to the 5 cyl gas Eurovan. It will have improved acceleration over the DYA but reduced fuel economy on the highway. 
The DYA in my 03 Eurovan works well and provides a good combination of power and fuel economy. 
So, in your searching for a trans, remember 02G, with trans code DYA, or FTV with a bellhousing swap for really deep gearing. Another tip, the FTV trans was bolted up to the following diesel engines, the AYY and the AYC, maybe others. 

Edited from another recent post of mine....see 02B/02G comparison
The following info was taken from the Brooklands workshop manual for post MY200 diesel T4s (there is a petrol/gas equivalent)
....the 02G was created for use with the 2.5 TDi engines (ACV, AHY, AJT, AUF, AXG, AXL and AYC). All the above engines are diesels - I don't have info for gas motors...
My book suggests says final drive for the 02G in all 2.5TDi T4's is 3.905:1......no other options. So I'm not sure about your trans code...








02G ratios for all 5cyl 2.5TDi engines
1st 3.909:1
2nd 2.118:1
3rd 1.346:1
4th 0.972:1
5th 0.729:1
Rev 3.700:1
As for the trans code for the gearbox....can't really help. Mine is a syncro and is not either the DYA or FTV....I think its the DRN


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (Seano)*

Thanks for the info. Its super helpful. I will be on the lookout for an 02G DYA. You probably saved me a ton of work here. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## therabbittree (Jul 30, 2001)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6 with 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS (wilsonm73)*

Any help with bellhousing part #s for the vr6, 15, and the 4cyl?
Thanks
deo


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## BMEP (Dec 13, 2002)

Go to wwww.vagcat.com.
It's free to register and you will access to part #s and exploded views of virtually every part on VW and Audi vehicles.


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

that looks like fun!


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6, 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS! 48K Miles! $18,900 (BMEP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMEP* »_
5 speed conversion performed by East Side VW performance shop in Baltimore. Parts alone cost $7,500. Looks and shifts like it was a factory installation. This must be one of the only 5 speed 24V VR6 Eurovans in the world. 

Trans swap parts = $7,500
Trans labor = ? Many thousands, including ECU reprogramming. 

What had to be reprogrammed in the ECU? Our transmission is starting to act up. I had my mechanic change the fluid and I think he put the wrong stuff in and its dropping out of first in to neutral when its cold in the monring. After its warm its fine. 
I am just trying to get a read if it would even be worth it to attempt the conversion.


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## chromenuts (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6, 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS! 48K Miles! $18,900 (wilsonm73)*

Already sent you an email. I need and want this vehicle so badly for my growing family, it would be a perfect solution. I only wish it was as easy as trading you the car I have for sale. If anyone is in the market for or knows of someone that wants a really amazing heavily modified 1.8T GTi please take a look at my link below so that I might sell it and be able to purchase this gentleman's Eurovan. Thank you.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3678705


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## BMEP (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6, 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS! 48K Miles! $18,900 (wilsonm73)*

I believe the ECU was reprogrammed to prevent the auto trans trouble codes (since the auto trans is gone, trouble codes are in the ECU) from tripping the check engine light.


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## BMEP (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6, 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS! 48K Miles! $18,900 (BMEP)*

*SOLD*


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6, 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS! 48K Miles! $18,900 (BMEP)*

congrats on the sale. hopefully to another vortexer? 'cause we'd still like to see it around the 'tex from time to time.


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

congrats.


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: Trans model question*

I have a lead on a EV 5spd for about $200 with 50k on it. It is an 02G AFL designation. Does anyone here know if the 12v and 24v share the same bolt pattern. There are two five speeds listed that fit the VR6, one is the DYA and the other AFL. Both are for the 12v, one starts in 96 and the other in 98. 
I have an 02 EV 24V and before I buy I wanted to make sure the bolt holes and other things line up correctly. Does anyone here know which model is in the van in this post? 
AFL 2,8ltr 103kw 01,96- 3,909 2,118 1,346 0,972 0,729 3,905
DYA 2,8ltr 103kw 08,98- 3,909 2,118 1,346 0,972 0,729 3,905


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: Trans model question (wilsonm73)*

Never mind, it seems that its a DYA, but my questions is will the AFL fit since it is also listed as a VR6 transmission.


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## TrierBora (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Trans model question (wilsonm73)*

Anyone know if you could just fit an 02A or 02J into the eurovans instead of being on a hunt for that specific tranny? Its a problem w/ the mounts or where the axle shafts are?


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## J_Westy (Nov 27, 2001)

*Re: Trans model question (TrierBora)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TrierBora* »_Anyone know if you could just fit an 02A or 02J into the eurovans instead of being on a hunt for that specific tranny? Its a problem w/ the mounts or where the axle shafts are? 

I've posted this link before, but just in case it's helpful here:
http://www.motorenstaab.de/Get...g.htm
FWIW, I think I've read that the distance between the engine/crank and the axles is different on the EV transmissions compared to cars.


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## TrierBora (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Trans model question (J_Westy)*

Vielen danke... I ran across that link earlier today... but it looks like thats just a list of what trannies came on the t4. That list doesn't really tell me if i can just retrofit another one... Since the 02a from a vr would have the correct bellhousing for a 12v or 24v ev. *theoretically of course*


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## splitmeister. (Sep 20, 2007)

*Re: Trans model question (TrierBora)*

its not even close. the innards of the transmissions are similar, but the case and shift mechanism are way different between the o2a and g trannies in T4's. Definitely a nogo.


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## TrierBora (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Trans model question (splitmeister.)*

so it wouldn't be possibe to use any other tranny type than what was specifically made for the t4?
Man this is really dragging down my dreams of owning one someday.







Why must I want something I cant have or I know I shouldn't get. Sounds like it would be easier to import one of these ****ers that to undertake a swap like this.


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## flygliii (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: Trans model question (J_Westy)*

Oh...if it was local...


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

i thought i saw this for sale a while ago with a much higher asking price


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## clubadria (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Trans model question (J_Westy)*

Glad that someone else is interested in doing this,i bought a 02G DXZ Box with gear lever pedal box master cylinder and other bits last year only to find that the 5 cylinder box doesn't fit the 6 cylinder engine so its been sitting in my garage.
After reading all your comments i went on vagcom and found part numbers they call the bellhousing (clutch housing) if this is available then you could get it to fit.
The drive shafts on our vehicle's are thicker than those on 102 bhp tdi,but the 150bhp tdi does use the same as v6 24v engine's.You would need to use the same drive shaft size i think.
The 102 bhp use's smaller drive shafts so would not fit the front hub and the abs would not work.
Question
Can the stub shafts from the auto box be fitted into the new manual box,if this was a straight swap it would be ok.
I had the drive shafts that fitted the o2g dxz box that was my first problem,if anybody has the answer i'm sure we all would benefit from knowing this.
I'm sorry that i used BHP figure's but i cannot remember the correct KW figure's as in the UK we still BHP and we never had the 150 tdi what a shame.Our VAG garage's are not very helpful in finding anything out if its not available over here in the UK.


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## Odyssea (Feb 25, 2008)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan with 5-speed*

FYI -- as the lucky new owner of this vehicle, I can report that in adding 6,000 miles to her odometer I've averaged 22.1 mpg for those miles. Rock solid driving in heavy weather – gusty wind and rain combined!


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6, 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS! 48K Miles! $18,900 (BMEP)*

i Guys, I am buying a AFL VR6 02g transmission with shifter and linkage, starter, mounts, clutch, slave, master cylinder. I have the part # for the clutch and pressure plate, but not the fly wheel. Anyone know what fly wheel will fit the 219mm clutches? Thanx, Mark


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: 2003 Eurovan 24V VR6, 5-Speed MANUAL TRANS! 48K Miles! $18,900 (wilsonm73)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wilsonm73* »_i Guys, I am buying a AFL VR6 02g transmission with shifter and linkage, starter, mounts, clutch, slave, master cylinder. I have the part # for the clutch and pressure plate, but not the fly wheel. Anyone know what fly wheel will fit the 219mm clutches? Thanx, Mark

Do you guys know if any of the VR6 Passats, Golf's or TT's will fit? I am working on trying to find out from a German dealer too.


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## wilsonm73 (Jun 15, 2006)

*Re: Trans model question (clubadria)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clubadria* »_Glad that someone else is interested in doing this,i bought a 02G DXZ Box with gear lever pedal box master cylinder and other bits last year only to find that the 5 cylinder box doesn't fit the 6 cylinder engine so its been sitting in my garage.
After reading all your comments i went on vagcom and found part numbers they call the bellhousing (clutch housing) if this is available then you could get it to fit.
The drive shafts on our vehicle's are thicker than those on 102 bhp tdi,but the 150bhp tdi does use the same as v6 24v engine's.You would need to use the same drive shaft size i think.
The 102 bhp use's smaller drive shafts so would not fit the front hub and the abs would not work.
Question
Can the stub shafts from the auto box be fitted into the new manual box,if this was a straight swap it would be ok.
I had the drive shafts that fitted the o2g dxz box that was my first problem,if anybody has the answer i'm sure we all would benefit from knowing this.
I'm sorry that i used BHP figure's but i cannot remember the correct KW figure's as in the UK we still BHP and we never had the 150 tdi what a shame.Our VAG garage's are not very helpful in finding anything out if its not available over here in the UK.


If you check back in I have the AFL AES VR6 if you are interested in it.


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## Xtremjeepn (Jan 9, 2005)

Any updated information on the swap, part?


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

Has anyone been able to get this 02G AFL trans using the PN in this thread 02G300045cx?

Can anyone confirm that this will definatly bolt to a 24V vr6?


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## chudzikb (Sep 21, 2000)

CoolAirVw said:


> Has anyone been able to get this 02G AFL trans using the PN in this thread 02G300045cx?
> 
> Can anyone confirm that this will definatly bolt to a 24V vr6?


That's the one, it is an 02GDYA...or so says my research.


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## ventucky red (Oct 25, 2013)

Sigh!!!!!!

From what I understand you can't do this in CA with the smog rules..... or can you?


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

chudzikb said:


> That's the one, it is an 02GDYA...or so says my research.


What Im asking is has anyone been able to get the trans?


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

I've got an 02G AFL on the way - coming from Thomas at Quality German. 

He had a "transmission kit" for sale that included the clutch, starter, pedal assembly and gear shifter w/linkage. He advised that this for a eurovan VR6 -- and the guy knows his stuff inside out so I'm making plans that this is going to fit. 

Ironically - in one of the early threads discussing 24v w/ 5spd (could be this one) - Thomas posted that people should contact him for these parts. Well I did and got lucky - he had it up on his website!

Fingers crossed it will work as imagined.


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

Definitely keep us posted! I'm amused (in a good way) that six years later after the discovery of the one 24V 5-speed MT van that was the catalyst for this thread that there is still just as much interest now as there was then.:thumbup:


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## chudzikb (Sep 21, 2000)

Yeah, what Matt said! Where is this guy's place of business? Link to his site? Every time I drive the 02 Westy, I have a feeling that it could be the last time for the transmission! I drive like an eggshell on the pedal, and do not abuse, and change fluid, but, still...the feeling is there.


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

I'll definitely keep everyone up to do date as I work on the conversion. Parts looks like hell - so I'm going to try and clean them up first and do what I can to recondition them.

Quality German Autoparts is in California. You can see the inventory online: www.qualitygermanautoparts.com
That being said, they are not "email friendly" - don't expect replies from them - you have to call and talk to Thomas about what you are looking for. Just read the last paragraph on their company profile on their home page. 

His eurovan parts can be hard to find - I found the trans listed under "Transmission Conversion kits" off the main navigation. But they also have a section for "Eurovan Gas & Diesel" - listed under Diesel/TD and TDI Engines. :screwy:

Currently looks like he's got a 1.9td (NOT TDI) w/transmission - for a T4 listed. Probably not for everyone - but I would imagine he could bring in T4 TDI kits all day long if you asked him to.


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

Itsamoto said:


> I've got an 02G AFL on the way - coming from Thomas at Quality German.
> 
> He had a "transmission kit" for sale that included the clutch, starter, pedal assembly and gear shifter w/linkage. He advised that this for a eurovan VR6 -- and the guy knows his stuff inside out so I'm making plans that this is going to fit.
> 
> ...


Please keep us posted as I think the kit you bought won't work, the 2001-2003 is a 24 valve V6 not the earlier 12 valve VR6 that the transmission is most likely off of... I was told the one from VR6 won't fit a V6... I am in the same boat, and according to my research even the 24 valve T4s in Europe only came with auto trannies


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

Yes - I fear that as well. I read something to the effect that the bolt pattern may be missing or off by one bolt hole -- but that in theory this could be rectified with a custom bracket -- or ignored (gasp!).

I'm still in the process of trying to get all the little bits and pieces to ensure I have almost everything needed to get started. The kit was missing the clutch cylinders and the cosmetic bits of the shifter. Before I cut open the van, I need to go through everything and verify it against the "parts list" from the EV update group.

My other concern, was something mentioned by GTI_MATT in another thread -- that according to ETKA there are different downpipes for manual and automatic transmissions. I checked and saw this definitely applied to the AES 12v's (2 part numbers noted by trans type) -- but with the 24v, there is only one down pipe listed, which makes sense if there was no 5 spd option available.


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

B5.5 4EVER said:


> Please keep us posted as I think the kit you bought won't work, the 2001-2003 is a 24 valve V6 not the earlier 12 valve VR6 that the transmission is most likely off of... I was told the one from VR^ won't fit a V6... I am in the same boat, and according to my research even the 24 valve T4s in Europe only came with auto trannies



So you have O2G transmission kit then as well? Good to know.


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

B5.5 4EVER said:


> Please keep us posted as I think the kit you bought won't work, the 2001-2003 is a 24 valve V6 not the earlier 12 valve VR6 that the transmission is most likely off of... I was told the one from VR^ won't fit a V6... I am in the same boat, and according to my research even the 24 valve T4s in Europe only came with auto trannies


Hang on a sec....don't get mislead by the badging.

Both the 12V and 24V motors are V*R*6 motors. VWoA just downplayed the 'R' part on the 24V one by badging the vans as "V6" here, but they are indeed VR motors. One just has 2x as many valves as the other in the head. At a very high level, they are the same motor just with different heads (ok that might be an oversimplification, but they are not as different as a VR6 vs a real true V6).

As far as I know, the 24V didn't come with a 5-speed MT overseas (which is what you appear to be finding too) whereas the 12V did. That does NOT mean that one won't fit though. Since they are both VR6 blocks, I suspect that an 02G will bolt to the 24V like in the original van in the first post of this thread.


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

Itsamoto said:


> Yes - I fear that as well. I read something to the effect that the bolt pattern may be missing or off by one bolt hole -- but that in theory this could be rectified with a custom bracket -- or ignored (gasp!).


IIRC that had to do more with swapping in a different VR6 motor into the EV and mating it to the 01P auto trans, like you could use a Mk4 VR6 block in a Eurovan if it was a MT Mk4 block or something like that (I forget the details but I don't think it has a bearing on the question of swapping an 02G MT into a VR6 T4 in place of the 01P trans).


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

gti_matt said:


> IIRC that had to do more with swapping in a different VR6 motor into the EV and mating it to the 01P auto trans, like you could use a Mk4 VR6 block in a Eurovan if it was a MT Mk4 block or something like that (I forget the details but I don't think it has a bearing on the question of swapping an 02G MT into a VR6 T4 in place of the 01P trans).


Ah ok yep...here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-a-BDF-VR6&p=72164032&viewfull=1#post72164032

The "one bolt off" issue is that to stuff a Mk4 VR6 into a Eurovan, you must use a 6-speed manual donor Mk4 for the right bolt holes.

But that is a question of mating a different MOTOR (BDF instead of AXK) to the same TRANS (01P) in a T4.

That shouldn't have a direct implication to mating a different TRANS (02G instead of 01P) to the same MOTOR (AXK) in a T4, especially when the trans in question *is* one that did come in some VR6 T4s to begin with overseas.


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

Itsamoto said:


> My other concern, was something mentioned by GTI_MATT in another thread -- that according to ETKA there are different downpipes for manual and automatic transmissions. I checked and saw this definitely applied to the AES 12v's (2 part numbers noted by trans type) -- but with the 24v, there is only one down pipe listed, which makes sense if there was no 5 spd option available.


Doesn't mean it's impossible. Just didn't come from the factory that way.

I'm going to guess that the different pipes had to do with shape and curves and clearance of snaking the pipe over part of the trans. I would say try the existing downpipe and just see what happens. If it doesn't work or hits something then yeah just go source out a 12V AES MT downpipe from across the pond. In other words, it's just pipes...other than shape and connections so it'll physically fit...the specifics beyond that are not that important.

(Hehe...easy for me to say...since I've obviously done this swap only from my armchair with a laptop LOL .)


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

Itsamoto said:


> So you have O2G transmission kit then as well? Good to know.


No I didn't buy anything yet, I am currently converting my Passat from auto to manual, and EV should be next if it is possible... As for the downpipe I know for a fact that Passat has two different ones depending on the transmission but the auto will work in a manual but manual won't work in auto as the auto tranny is bigger and differently shaped... So you might be OK with using the existing one... Let's put our resources together, if there is a tranny in Europe that will fit I can get them no problem...All the other bits and pieces should be no problem too...


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

gti_matt said:


> Hang on a sec....don't get mislead by the badging.
> 
> Both the 12V and 24V motors are V*R*6 motors. VWoA just downplayed the 'R' part on the 24V one by badging the vans as "V6" here, but they are indeed VR motors. One just has 2x as many valves as the other in the head. At a very high level, they are the same motor just with different heads (ok that might be an oversimplification, but they are not as different as a VR6 vs a real true V6).
> 
> As far as I know, the 24V didn't come with a 5-speed MT overseas (which is what you appear to be finding too) whereas the 12V did. That does NOT mean that one won't fit though. Since they are both VR6 blocks, I suspect that an 02G will bolt to the 24V like in the original van in the first post of this thread.


Good point I was just saying what I was told, but nobody besides the guy who sold that one ever tried doing it I guess... I was under impression that the 12V was at a different angle then the 24V and that is why the tranny won't bolt up but maybe I am wrong... I know there were Sharans in Europe VR6s 24V with manual trannies so maybe this is where we should look...


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

B5.5 4EVER said:


> I was under impression that the 12V was at a different angle then the 24V and that is why the tranny won't bolt up


AFAIK, all T4s (I5, VR6 12V, and VR6 24V) have motors mounted such that it's tilted forward far more than its comparable pasenger cars (Golf, Jetta, etc.).

Let me put it this way...since the same 01P auto trans is bolted up to both 12V and 24V motors, then that implies that there's no significant difference between 12V and 24V motors themselves anyway. So therefore an 02G manual should also bolt up to both even though VW didn't (as far as we can tell) offer a 02G MT + 24V combo from the factory.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

B5.5 4EVER said:


> I know there were Sharans in Europe VR6s 24V with manual trannies so maybe this is where we should look...



No the engines in the Sharans were not at the same angle as the T4. Your only option is indeed the 12V VR6 MT but you will have a very hard time finding one, there weren't many VR6 T4s sold in Europe period, and when/if someone bought such a "luxury vehicle" they also very often mated it to a (luxury in Europe) automatic transmission. You could almost call it a "American-wannabe setup"  big engine and automatic transmission.


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

wilsonm73 said:


> i Guys, I am buying a AFL VR6 02g transmission with shifter and linkage, starter, mounts, clutch, slave, master cylinder. I have the part # for the clutch and pressure plate, but not the fly wheel. Anyone know what fly wheel will fit the 219mm clutches? Thanx, Mark


Any luck with that AFL???I found an AFL out of a 98 VR6, anyone have the saved list of parts needed for the swap???


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

The parts list is available on that Yahoo EV_update group.

Link: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ev_update/files/Transmission%20Swap/


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

FWIW -- the parts dealer that I got my transmission from is bringing in tdi motor & trans kits. There's a 2.4 tdi "kit" available right now. I mentioned this a couple of months back - and I am surprised that it wasn't sold right away as I thought this was the like finding the holy grail here in NA. 

If anybody is interested, you can find what they have in for Eurovan's here: [url]http://www.qualitygermanautoparts.com/index.php?p=p1360173785&navt=EUROVAN%20Gas%20&%20Diesel [/URL]


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

Itsamoto said:


> The parts list is available on that Yahoo EV_update group.
> 
> Link: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ev_update/files/Transmission%20Swap/


 For some reason this link doesn't work for me even with a yahoo account... Can you PM me that list? If you have it saved...
Thanks.


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

Check it out -- Kansascity TDI is offering 5spd conversions on VR6! 

http://kansascitytdi.com/eurovan-rialta-5-speed-conversion/


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## Xtremjeepn (Jan 9, 2005)

Itsamoto said:


> Check it out -- Kansascity TDI is offering 5spd conversions on VR6!
> 
> http://kansascitytdi.com/eurovan-rialta-5-speed-conversion/


...and a quote from their site!:screwy:



> This is not a cheap option. Might be more than the cost of average Eurovan


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

Xtremjeepn said:


> ...and a quote from their site!:screwy:


 $7500 with a brand new reman transmission...


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## Xtremjeepn (Jan 9, 2005)

B5.5 4EVER said:


> $7500 with a brand new reman transmission...


Where did you get that number from?


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

Xtremjeepn said:


> Where did you get that number from?


I called...He said it might be more around $8K depending on parts availability...


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

B5.5 4EVER said:


> I called...He said it might be more around $8K depending on parts availability...


Well the price is one thing -- but what really gets me is that it was done on a Rialta. I mean really -- c'mon, a Rialta? That setup needs to be on somebody's daily driver. What a waste! :laugh:


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

Itsamoto said:


> Well the price is one thing -- but what really gets me is that it was done on a Rialta. I mean really -- c'mon, a Rialta? That setup needs to be on somebody's daily driver. What a waste! :laugh:


Well average price of an EV is what maybe $16K for a low mileage MV... And for Rialta it is between $30-40K so doing a $7500 tranny swap is much less cost prohibitive on the Rialta rather then EV...


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## chudzikb (Sep 21, 2000)

Hummm...I might pony up that amount for my weekender, would make it a keeper for life. If the trans was on the way out, I would be all over this...


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## chudzikb (Sep 21, 2000)

B5.5 4EVER said:


> I called...He said it might be more around $8K depending on parts availability...


Another thought is if we got a couple of us together, sort of a group install? Anyone else think this is not such a bad idea?


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

B5.5 4EVER said:


> Well average price of an EV is what maybe $16K for a low mileage MV... And for Rialta it is between $30-40K so doing a $7500 tranny swap is much less cost prohibitive on the Rialta rather then EV...


The cost is the same, it's equally prohibitive!  

What I meant in my comment -- is that it's sad to think that this 5-spd is on Rialta, rather than EV -- just from the standpoint of how much it will probably be used.

I'm not sure if anyone's tracked the failure rate for these auto-transmissions across the three main platforms -- EV, EV-Camper and Rialtas. If it's considered under-spec for just a regular EV -- then I can only imagine the extra weight of the camper and Rialta factors into it. I don't know if there are any Rialta owners here -- but all the Rialtas I have seen online seem to be very low mileage. Maybe the 5-spd is the only sensible option to keep those moving on the road.


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

chudzikb said:


> Another thought is if we got a couple of us together, sort of a group install? Anyone else think this is not such a bad idea?


If the factory transmission is as rare as we believe it to be -- I can't see this being able to be done for more than handful of vans. Maybe they have figured out an adaption to using an O2J or O2A car transmission? 

I think it would be great to find a solution that works everyone. Maybe a new thread should be started -- or an older one reopened?

There was some good ideas being discussed in this old thread -- too bad it died off : http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3748014-Can-a-Auto-to-Manual-swap-be-done-in-a-VR6-Eurovan


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## CKS (Jan 4, 2009)

This is very interesting. Mostly so for me if/when I need to replace the trans. Instead of spending $6K for another weak AT, why not go $7500 and convert to MT? Anyone who does this or knows about the parts, it would be interesting to know:
1. If someone only wants to replace the trans, which do they get that matches with the OEM VR6 engine
2. If the engine also needs to be replaced, what's the ideal combo?


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

CKS said:


> 1. If someone only wants to replace the trans, which do they get that matches with the OEM VR6 engine


O2G AFL or O2G DYA


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

Check out this merchant on German ebay -- says they can provide a manual transmission kit for VR6 for 2600 euros ( ~$3200 USD) before shipping.

Here is the original version of the site (in Deutsch): http://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-T4-Umbau-von-Automatik-auf-5-Gang-Schaltgetriebe-VR6-2-5-TDI-2-5-Benzin-/320928310706?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item4ab8d165b2

Here is same page with translation (into English): https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fitm%2FVW-T4-Umbau-von-Automatik-auf-5-Gang-Schaltgetriebe-VR6-2-5-TDI-2-5-Benzin-%2F320928310706%3Fpt%3DDE_Autoteile%26hash%3Ditem4ab8d165b2&edit-text=&act=url


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

Updates as promised.

A build thread has been started on the Cavevan forum: http://www.cavevan.com/forum/index.php


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## B5.5 4EVER (Jun 11, 2009)

Itsamoto said:


> Updates as promised.
> 
> A build thread has been started on the Cavevan forum: http://www.cavevan.com/forum/index.php


This is good, my tranny should be here next week, I am excited!!!


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