# 2009 Routan, accelerator/steering stop working! Traction control light?



## danroutan (Feb 26, 2015)

I have a 2009 VW Routan. Two days in a row, in the first mile the van was driven, the accelerator stopped working (pushing the gas pedal did not speed up the car) and the steering stopped working (was like really difficult manual steering). I pulled over the car to the side of the road, restarted it and it was back to normal. My wife had the same thing happen the next day, so we decided to take it in for a repair. Also, the traction control light came on both times.

The dealer has not been able to recreate the problem. They said there was no error on the computer. 

I'm not sure what to do. The dealer seems kind of clueless.


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## ORRoutan (Mar 12, 2015)

My wife's Routan was having random loss of acceleration issues, TCL light coming on, locks not always working, and other electrical "mysteries". I was following her one day and noticed the third brake light staying on longer than the other brake lights. Turns out it was the Brake Light Switch - a very cheap and easy part to change yourself. In our case, replacing this seemed to get rid of our other gremlins at least thus far. Maybe worth a shot?


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## danroutan (Feb 26, 2015)

ORRoutan said:


> My wife's Routan was having random loss of acceleration issues, TCL light coming on, locks not always working, and other electrical "mysteries". I was following her one day and noticed the third brake light staying on longer than the other brake lights. Turns out it was the Brake Light Switch - a very cheap and easy part to change yourself. In our case, replacing this seemed to get rid of our other gremlins at least thus far. Maybe worth a shot?


Hi ORRoutan,

Thanks for the tip. I just took it in this morning to get the brake switch replaced. They agreed that could be the cause of the issue. Hoping this is it!

Are you from Oregon? I live in Wilsonville. Don't see too many Routans around, maybe we'll pass by each other some day.


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## fouriwilly (Mar 20, 2015)

*2009 Routan, accelerator / steering stop working! Traction control light?*

Hi Dan,
We recently purchased a 2009 Routan as well back in January, and my wife described the exact same situation that you describe here happening to her. I don't know how this could be related to a brake light switch...that seems odd. I do know that this issue is somewhat hard to recreate. The dealer we purchased from sent us to VW as they discovered that there is an open pending recall on this model for an ignition switch [WIN module] issue, that would potentially cause this. We contacted VW, they had us schedule an appointment for diagnostics, and they came back with code C121C - which they claim means I need a new EGR valve. Further investigation into code C121C at my independent shop indicates "Torque Request Signal Denied". So I'm not sure what is happening on this vehicle now, but I am not really comfortable with this vehicle...


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## danroutan (Feb 26, 2015)

fouriwilly said:


> Hi Dan,
> We recently purchased a 2009 Routan as well back in January, and my wife described the exact same situation that you describe here happening to her. I don't know how this could be related to a brake light switch...that seems odd. I do know that this issue is somewhat hard to recreate. The dealer we purchased from sent us to VW as they discovered that there is an open pending recall on this model for an ignition switch [WIN module] issue, that would potentially cause this. We contacted VW, they had us schedule an appointment for diagnostics, and they came back with code C121C - which they claim means I need a new EGR valve. Further investigation into code C121C at my independent shop indicates "Torque Request Signal Denied". So I'm not sure what is happening on this vehicle now, but I am not really comfortable with this vehicle...


My van is not throwing any codes, so I think it may be a different issue.

I found a cool trick for checking the codes: 
1. Start with key in off position
2. Turn to On position
3. Rapidly switch to AC
4. Rapidly switch On
5. Rapidly switch to AC
6. Rapidly switch to On and leave it there

Your odometer will now display any codes. If you see -------- there are no codes. I had previously taken it in to the dealer for them to scan it.


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## fouriwilly (Mar 20, 2015)

*2009 routan*

Dan,
the strange thing is that my local shop scanned for codes last week after the event and found none, now after bringing it to vw to have it inspected for the pending win recall we seem to have a handful of codes. None of which have made the check engine light come on. In my mind, a bad egr valve should throw the check engine light. ... And I'm very curious since your description is exactly the same as our issue, the brake switch was the only repair and it's still resolved? 
Bill


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## ORRoutan (Mar 12, 2015)

danroutan said:


> Hi ORRoutan,
> 
> Thanks for the tip. I just took it in this morning to get the brake switch replaced. They agreed that could be the cause of the issue. Hoping this is it!
> 
> Are you from Oregon? I live in Wilsonville. Don't see too many Routans around, maybe we'll pass by each other some day.



Danroutan

Did changing out the brake switch work? My understanding is that the switch controls more than just the brake lights. FYI, live in Oregon City so if you see a silver Routan in the area with 3 screaming kids in the back and FROZEN playing on the monitors for the 745th time, it could be me!!


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## ncpsu (Aug 14, 2008)

Periodically on my 2009 4.0, it would stall out, traction light would come on as well. Never encountered a check engine light what so ever. Would occur typically at slow speeds under 30 mph. Replaced the egr valve a few months ago and has not experienced another stall, noticed some hesitation is gone as well and milage is not as bad as we were seeing. Its a fairly easy swap and easily sourced part.


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## danroutan (Feb 26, 2015)

Well the problem is back, happened a few times in the last month, so the brake switch didn't work.

We did the recall and got a new WIN module, and that didn't fix it either.

@ncpsu: Did you replace the EGR valve yourself? Did you use an online video for info?


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## DTPB (Jun 1, 2013)

danroutan said:


> Well the problem is back, happened a few times in the last month, so the brake switch didn't work.
> 
> We did the recall and got a new WIN module, and that didn't fix it either.
> 
> @ncpsu: Did you replace the EGR valve yourself? Did you use an online video for info?


We had the exact same issues, stalling and traction control light would come on my 2010 Comfortline here in Vancouver. I took it to VW and they at first did the obligitory, change of batteries in the remote keys and tested a few things and said they couldn't see any issues. 
This was 2 years ago, and it kept happening, so I persisited and showed *them* the recall on the WIN module which they reluctantly replaced at their cost. .This did not help either.

I then had the EGR replaced by them as well and it has not stalled in over 5 months. I can rest easy knowing that when my wife and children are in the van, it doesnt stall when they are in traffic now.

Have your EGR valve replaced, you'll find that is your problem. It only gets worse if you don't


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## danroutan (Feb 26, 2015)

I got two quotes for replacing my EGR Valve: $450 and $495.

I decided to do it myself. I bought an EGR valve from Napa for $111, picking it up this afternoon.

I pulled the old one off, it was not too hard. When I looked at the gasket going to the vacuum hose it was really corroded. I had a coolant leak and previously had the Y-shaped tube above the EGR valve replaced. I think maybe the coolant was getting onto the EGR valve and corroding it (like some others have noticed.)

Here are the steps for removing the EGR valve:
-Use an 8mm socket to remove the two bolts connected to the vacuum hose (the hose which is connected to the EGR valve). I used a flexible extension to help with this, as it was slightly awkward to get to.
-Undo the electrical connection. Slide the red tab to the side and pinch it. If you do it right, it will slide off easily without a ton of force.
-Remove the remaining two bolts with a 10mm socket. I used a straight extension to make it easier. The front bolt was pretty tight and it stripped my 10mm socket, so I bought another one. The bolt in back will be easier to see once you get the front one out.


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## danroutan (Feb 26, 2015)

Here's a thread on Chrysler 4.0 liters having an issue with the Y-shaped tube leaking coolant on the EGR valve:
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/24339-Small-Dripping-Coolant-from-quot-Y-quot-tube

Seems pretty similar... I found that pretty interesting.


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## danroutan (Feb 26, 2015)

Sorry to keep posting, but I wanted to write that after I replaced the EGR Valve the slight hesitation in acceleration at 20mph went away. I'm hoping I don't have any more issues with loss of acceleration. Time will tell.


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## danroutan (Feb 26, 2015)

The dealer replaced the plastic Y-shaped tube with another plastic Y-shaped tube and within 5 months it already started leaking again. I ordered a metal Y on Ebay and replaced it. Hopefully the leaking will stop (which I believe to be the source of EGR valve problems- dripping coolant)


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Exact same problem as OP posted with stalling on cold engine within approx. 1 mile (if not much much sooner). It'd lose power steering and brakes, and the traction control light would illuminate, but otherwise the dash didn't light up like a Christmas tree like would normally expect with a stall. It started happening regularly about 3 weeks ago and the problem just got increasingly worse with more frequency. Replaced EGR valve yesterday and it seems to have gone away. Rough idle has also mostly smoothed out and van just drives more smoothly and responsively overall. 

Also, my MPGs had been way down for a long long time, like 13-15mpg in mixed hwy/city driving. Upon replacing EGR I drove home in mixed driving (albeit more hwy than city compared to our 'normal' driving patterns) and got 20.7 mpgs driving home from having the EGR valve replaced. We haven't seen 20+ mpgs except on all hwy road trips, so this looks promising. Hell, if it's a 25-33% increase in fuel efficiency, then fuel savings alone might eventually pay for the EGR valve replacement.

I've also been experiencing a temperature issue too. Not overheating, but it won't hold 190* (never exceeds though). It's not a wildly bouncing needle like I've seen with a bad temp sensor, but it just takes a long time to reach 190* and when it does the needle floats up and down between about 160/170* and 190*. I was hoping it was the bad EGR valve causing it not to maintain proper operating temps, but the EGR replacement didn't fix that problem. The intake temp sensor is cheap ($15 after-market/$35 OEM) and looks very easy to do on the 4.0L engine, so I might start there. But guessing a stuck-open thermostat is the more likely culprit.

Also, on the EGR valve... I also had the leaky Y-tube at the front/rear heater core diverter, and had it replaced about 45k miles ago. No clue how long it had been leaking, but I know it had been awhile b/c i added coolant a couple of times before it finally blew. So that may've been the start of corroding EGR valve with it sitting directly below the Y-tube. I went with the Airtex/Wells after-market EGR valve for $76 from Rock Auto and will report back how it goes, or if it fails.


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## Rider14 (Jul 25, 2016)

So on my 2010 Routan SEL 4.0L V6, the car intermittently will die while driving, sometimes check engine light, sometimes not.

Last time (Yesterday), the Electronic Throttle Control light (ETC) - the lightning bolt between 2 curved lines - went on, then it disappeared, but the Check Engine Light came on.

This morning, all seems fine, but I'm sick of this problem. Wife freaks out when she loses power steering before she can restart the car.

Looks like EGR valve is causing the problem? Could this also be impacting the ETC light? Problem has been intermittent for a while, car just broke 100k miles this week. Wondering if I'm dealing with more than one problem, or if the EGR valve and possibly the Y valve above can cause the ETC problem as well...

Will get this done ASAP, don't want to have to ditch the car quite just yet, as otherwise it's in great shape.

- Dan

sorry if I'm posting all over this board - didn't know it existed and I'm finding all types of good info here. Initially thought it was the WIN ignition switch recall but apparently my VIN did not fall in the recall... and others had the same problem even after the recall... Thanks again!


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## Rider14 (Jul 25, 2016)

*EGR Fix....*

Hoping this does it for me. Already teted my mechanic for a quote on an EGR valve replacement fix.

- Dan


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## Rider14 (Jul 25, 2016)

So how did the aftermarket EGR valve work? Did it solve the problem?

Thanks much,

- Dan


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

The Wells/Airtex EGR valve is still working fine 10k miles / 7 mos later. Cured the stalling problem. Pretty easy R&R job. No regrets there. $76 well spent.

If I could take a mulligan, I would've gotten rid of the Routan at 100k miles. After dropping $1200 on the timing belt job & plugs (102k miles service on 4.0L engine) about a year ago, I went on a roadtrip last August and the transmission crapped out on me 700 miles from home. $4400 to the closest dealership to replace transmission, not to mention the hotel rooms and a week of rental car at walk-up rate, and driving 1400 additional miles back and forth to get the family home and then go retrieve the van and return the rental car (and another hotel room) a week later. 2 more days off work, after returning from a 2 week vacation. In the intervening year since then, it seems like I've been nickeled & dimed in $100 increments. EGR valve. Thermostat/temp sensor. Front brakes (again). Windshield wiper motor died ($150). Now the lock mechanism on the sliding door is broken, and the rear/transmission motor mount needs replacing. Back of the napkin math, I've spent $7k or $8k in repairs and maintenance in the past 12 mos. Yeah, the van is paid for, but that kind of cashola would go a very long way toward a new (or new-to-me) replacement vehicle. And peace of mind.

Yeah, I know, hindsight being 20/20 and all.


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## Rider14 (Jul 25, 2016)

Zambee500 said:


> The Wells/Airtex EGR valve is still working fine 10k miles / 7 mos later. Cured the stalling problem. Pretty easy R&R job. No regrets there. $76 well spent.
> 
> If I could take a mulligan, I would've gotten rid of the Routan at 100k miles. After dropping $1200 on the timing belt job & plugs (102k miles service on 4.0L engine) about a year ago, I went on a roadtrip last August and the transmission crapped out on me 700 miles from home. $4400 to the closest dealership to replace transmission, not to mention the hotel rooms and a week of rental car at walk-up rate, and driving 1400 additional miles back and forth to get the family home and then go retrieve the van and return the rental car (and another hotel room) a week later. 2 more days off work, after returning from a 2 week vacation. In the intervening year since then, it seems like I've been nickeled & dimed in $100 increments. EGR valve. Thermostat/temp sensor. Front brakes (again). Windshield wiper motor died ($150). Now the lock mechanism on the sliding door is broken, and the rear/transmission motor mount needs replacing. Back of the napkin math, I've spent $7k or $8k in repairs and maintenance in the past 12 mos. Yeah, the van is paid for, but that kind of cashola would go a very long way toward a new (or new-to-me) replacement vehicle. And peace of mind.
> 
> Yeah, I know, hindsight being 20/20 and all.


Hmmm. Well, I replaced the EGR valve but it hasn't been long enough to tell if it solved the problem. So far so good...

Not sure about continuing to drop money in this thing either... I'm just over 100k, but I'd like a few more months out of it at a minimum before selling/trading in... it's in really good shape other than the stalling, which I'm hoping is fixed.

Thanks for the response. I hear you on possibly trading it in, but that's the breaks with most cars over 100k...

Good luck, and thanks again

- Dan


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Was your stalling issue only when the motor was cold, like within a half mile or mile or so after a cold-start? And then goes away after a hard restart after the stall? Even if intermittent, the EGR problem typically starts out only on cold starts and won't happen (initially anyway?) after the motor is warmed up.

Also, have you noticed any loss of coolant or graying/reddish splatter marks above the EGR valve in the engine bay between the battery and the plastic engine cover? The inlet Y-tube of the heater hose assembly often fails, causing coolant/antifreeze to leak onto the EGR valve which causes the EGR valve to go bad. If you see splatter in that area of the engine bay, or have had to add coolant but haven't ever seen coolant fluid leaking anywhere, the Y-tube is a prime candidate for needing replacement. 

There are $7 Y-tube kits that include plastic Y-tubes and hose clamps (requires 5/8" and 3/4" hoses) to fix the leak. Dorman makes a kit with plastic Y-tube (part# 47238) and Napa sells just a nylon replacement Y-tube made by KAT (part# 28110). 

Or you can replace the heater hose assembly that includes the hoses already installed and clamped onto the replacement Y-tube. Dorman makes after-market with aluminum Y-tubes (part#626307*HP* for both inlet & outlet) and Gates makes after-market with a glass/plastic composite Y-tube (part#s 23931 inlet and 23933 outlet). The Chryco/VW OEM includes the entire assembly including both Y-tubes and the aluminum heater pipes that run to the back of the van which never go bad, so no need to pay exorbitant OEM prices for most of which doesn't need replacing. Pictures of the Gates and OEM assemblies can be found on the Gates service bulletin at this link (links to PDF download).

(As an aside, just got the van back from the shop yesterday after dropping another $750 to replace the leaking radiator and new rear motor mount that the dealership crushed removing the old transmission last year, but refused to own up to it.)


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## Rider14 (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks for the details - I had my mechanic do the EGR valve, and asked him to check the Y connector, but he didn't mention it (I forgot to ask!). 

I'll check tonight. The Y kit replacement sounds easy enough.

Sorry this thing has been a money pit for you... Wow. I'm hoping for no more issues for a while, have the timing belt done, and trade it in in another 35k miles...

- Dan


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## dungdn93 (Jul 1, 2016)

The agents bought from sending us to VW when they found out that there is a recovery on the opening allocation model for an ignition switch [WIN Module] problems, likely causing present. We made contact with VW, they had scheduled an appointment for diagnosis, and they came back with the code C121C - they require means that I need a new EGR valve


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## pmassey31545 (Sep 13, 2016)

Well. I'm facing the same issue here. Was driving across the parking lot and the van just died. It's done it before but it was always easy to just restart. This time it wouldn't restart unless I gave it a bunch of gas then I had to keep the throttle open and run about 2000 RPM's to keep it going. 

I nursed it home and ran the diagnostics on it. Came back with a P0300 (random multiple misfire) and P2172 (Throttle Actuator Control System-Sudden High Airflow Detected). I tore the throttle body off and cleaned everything. Still had the issues. Replaced the coil pack and still had the issue. Replaced the ERG and still have the issue. 

About the only thing I can think that is left to do is replace the throttle body itself. I've read the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) can go bad. 

I know this doesn't seem like the most active forum or thread, but I figured I'd check and see if anyone had some insight.

Thanks in advance.


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## pmassey31545 (Sep 13, 2016)

So, I'm going to reply to my own post. My root cause turned out to be a broken valve spring on the exhaust of #3 cylinder. When I finally took it to a mechanic the first one told me I had an electrical issue (meltdown). So I took it to the 'Local' VW dealer and they ran a simple diag and said the catalytic converter was bad-$1095 to fix before any further diag could be done. Brought it back home and checked the CC-it looked fine. Took it to a local shop and he ran a compression test and called me the next day. He pulled the valve cover and found the broken spring. I tore it apart, replaced the valve and spring, fired it up and she runs great. 

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut-now my transmission is in limp mode. So, on to that problem. Van has been out of service since mid September. KILLING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LeightonM (Nov 14, 2021)

danroutan said:


> The dealer replaced the plastic Y-shaped tube with another plastic Y-shaped tube and within 5 months it already started leaking again. I ordered a metal Y on Ebay and replaced it. Hopefully the leaking will stop (which I believe to be the source of EGR valve problems- dripping coolant)


Hey, 

I have a 2009 Routan, just bought. I was driving in heavy rain when the ‘Traction Control‘light came on and I lost power. I pulled over. Restarted the car and continued on. It happened again. I stopped. restarted the car and made it home. Very scary scenario as I stalled onthe Lion’s Gate bridge in Vancouver with one lane access for my direction. Hundreds of cars behind me and my son was in the car! is this a Routan ‘thing’?


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