# Turbo aba build



## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

So after owning my car for ~1yr and experiencing almost constant vr6 envy (I sold my 96 glx for nothing while in college and still have bad dreams about it sometimes) I decided to do a little turbo project on my 2.0.
I was quite afraid to post anything b4 I actually got it running, but I did, and now am feeling like I'm a freaking genius.
It's pretty low budget, so most of it's crap but here's the list.
t3/t4 .60/.63ar (ebay special)
audi s4 intercooler
c2 (odb1) software vr6 maf (thanks 2.0 mk2)
42# injectors 
some ebay BOV greddy type s knockoff
modified tdi manifold
modified oil pan 
custom 2.5" downpipe/ 2" intake pipes and bov flange
2.5" exhaust / no cat
K&N filter
boost, oil temp, oil pressure gauges
polished throttle body FTW
Everything else is stock till I can afford some FI cam, lower compression, other goodies ect.
In the beginning some parts and a dream








The before pic








The car








The gauges, I installed these first and had them in there for roughly 6 months just as a constant reminder of how much my car sucked (it's a vac gauge too)
















but check out my sexy body!








BOV flange, carved from a solid block of steel using only a nail file.








The initial fit








Guess I should have done a search on vortex because it doesn't work if you want to keep your A/C, so I moved it by modifying my manifold and tilting the turbo, and I had a little discussion about the pro's and cons of that here http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3839748 
I decided to go for it 









It also dropped the exhaust down so I didn't have to get too crazy relocating my heater hoses....
Making intake piping








cont..








Oil pan, latex gloves for safety of course








Final fitment of pipes








Downpipe








Basic setup with everything running








Now all I have to do is work out the kinks and I'm good. I have black couplers and am going to clean up and paint all the pipes as soon as I get everything running correctly. 
Initial impressions are that boost is fun. I am only running ~5-7psi but don't start to hit that till 3500rpm. I am still tweaking the BOV because I think it's causing some issues. For eg, even though I have it recirculating occasionally the car will die when I downshift after a hard pull. Also I think that it may not seal correctly because it's a piece. 
What is also strange is when I first ran it it took a couple of pulls b4 it actually started boosting. Then it worked everytime I hit the throttle. I think I need to double check all my clamps ect. and I'm getting my actual map sensor plug (thanks "I know laz" http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3811446) tomorrow from the dealer although I don't think that's the issue. Also I don't have a cel when I first start up but it comes on almost as soon as I think it won't. I think it may have to do with deleting the egr valve. I still have the sensor plugged in but it's just sitting on the manifold. 
BTW although this tidy set of pictures makes it look like it took me five minutes to complete this, it was like the most intense project I've ever attempted on any vehicle and it took me about 1yr of collecting parts and then an eternity of hours over about 2 weeks coupled with consistent paranoia that it wouldn't work and that I was going to have a car that didn't run or parts that didn't work and not have the will to turn back. But when I felt the boost kick in I was like the happiest dude ever








I would like to hear thoughts and impressions but I'm sensitive, so to all haters, don't expect me to retaliate, I don't believe in negativity.


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: Turbo aba build (boglog42)*

Nice job! It's so rewarding to do a project like that, especially the first time you start the car, drive it, etc. With the knowledge you gained, I'm sure you'll be able to keep working out the bugs.


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## AstroVannin (Jan 26, 2007)

Looks good man.
It will be a little bit before everything is working perfect, but you'l get there. I can still remember when I first got the Tercel together. Ugh... Oil EVERYWHERE, CEL all the time, weird flat spots, all types of mysterious problems. Eventually it all worked out though.


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

looks good, i have the same turbo haha, does your boost fluxuate at all? i'm pretty sure the WG that comes with that turbo isnt so great


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## bulldogger72 (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: (MaxVW)*

2 points of constructive critisism:
is your oil return line hard piped EMT??? 
and for a top mounted ic to work you need some shrouds and vents or your not gonna get any airflow across the core


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (bulldogger72)*

Yes it's emt conduit but it connects to the turbo via a 5/8" flexible high temp/pressure silicone hose specifically designed for petroleum products that cost me a small fortune. BTW I used ridiculous amounts of ventilation when welding that galvanized stuff and held my breath.
I am contemplating some sort of hoodscoop contraption for better cooling, routing some vaccum hoses like my original CAI action you can see in the "before pic", or may go fmic. I put it in there that way for simplicity's sake.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

On another note, yes I think that my wastegate may suck. I tightened down the threaded rod about another 1" hoping to achieve some more boost, but still can't crack more than 5psi. I am going to try out my MBC this weekend and see if that does anything.
Also, I think I need a smaller compressor housing because I am getting surge. When I first started the car and did some minor "testing", it hovered around 0-1psi at WOT then stumble a sec before boost comes on strong @~3500rpm. 
But after I controlled the squeakage from the spots where the pipes were rubbing, got over the thoughts of complete engine failure and really started using it, it has gotten much more noticable and annoying. For eg first gear is fine boost kicks in 3-4000rpm then when I shift into second if I'm not back onto the throttle insantaneously and fall below 3000rpm it will kick like a mule and not want to boost for a second. I don't think this is a good situation. Could this be a BOV issue or is this just classic surge behavior?


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

its cus you have a big turbo, you need to keep the revs higher when you drive it, e4very setup drives a bit different you just have to get used to it


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (MaxVW)*

My car was sucking worse than ever today. After concluding this is not just normal "big turbo" behavior and doing some research on homemadeturbo.com decided to make a boost leak checker and guess what I heard phhhhssssshhhht.....
















Tightened things up after spraying some soapy water around and finding out it was leaking bigtime out of three different spots including right at the throttle body. We will now see what happens.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

Situation wicked sweet. Car runs almost perfectly after fixing the leaks. Messed with the BOV and think I have got it dialed now. Only problem is that now my clutch can't hold third gear. Second gear pulls seem ok but when you shift into third it just slips as soon as the boost kicks in. 
Any ideas for a low budget clutch that can hold a little better?


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## rednhez (May 11, 2005)

*Re: (boglog42)*

i bought the spec stage 2 for my car and i'm running about 10 lbs of boost on my turbo and it should hold for a little bit more too. it's been holding strong now for 6 months.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (rednhez)*

Thanks for the info , checked out thier website
http://www.specclutch.com/ 
$389 + shipping, and 285ft/lb capacity http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
sounds good but I would love more suggestions think "budget" or "broke-ass"


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: (boglog42)*

spec http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: (fastrabbit)*

i was looking over the thread and i just want to make a couple of pointers from the little bit of turbo knowlage ive gained over the last couple of months and compare what im doing with my build thats different from what you did.
1) I was always a firm believer in purchasing a quality/ time tested product even if it was used or didnt look "cool" shure the bov looks cool but i think you will notice better performance with a simple 1.8t or audi tt stock diverter valve ive owned a 1.8t mk4 and they seal perfect up to 20 psi.
2) 2 points on that aspect are quality and size. as far as size goes I feel it is too big for what you are trying to accomplish with this build. you probably wanted a little more power down low even tho you are getting use to the powerband your with now. Personally I would go to a junkyard and find a saab t3 .42/.48 ive ridden in a car with this turbo and am using it on my build, you can always find one in good shape for under 200 bucks. I know you wanted to save some cash with the ebay turbo and probably felt it was better buying something brand new even tho the quality isnt there figuring it would be better than taking the gamble with a used turbo....i could go back and forth on the pros and cons of each turbo for days but i think you see the point.
3)pipeing and craftsmanship. First i wanna give you a http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif on doing the fabrication and welding on your own. I cant say that for mself(ended up purchasing kinetics stg 1 piping)
you have the added bous of being able to go back and tweak your work for the leaks as you did, and modify and re route pipes easily. I give you credit for using a limited number of clamps and welding everything and using steel over aluminum.
4) intercooler definitely not a good place tou are soaking up all the heat from your engine and probably hurting performance over helping it, personally id loose the IC for now till youre ready to do a front mount or if I where you air-water IC (can build a good setup for arround 350$)
other than that man it looks like youre on a good start and i hope you work all the kinks out and meet your goals.
as for the clutch i wouldnt do a spec- they look awfully similar to thoes f-1 clutches that are on ebay put a stg 2 in my WRX thats my daily. guess where it is 5000 miles later....sitting in my driveway with a worn out clutch that wasnt EVER abused by ME!!! but i could be wrong so you be the judge.
personally id go for a Sachs HD kit or a BFI stage 2.
good luck
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (WindsorJetta8v)*

Thanks for the advice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Also now have heard from several people that "spec" should be spelled hit instead of pec after the S.
Ebay knockoff BOV is doing well, after fabricating my own piping, flange, and figuring out a way to recirculate it, I'm not switching it until complete failure, which I admit could happen anytime.
My turbo is big. It's brand new, installed and functional. If it breaks, or I get bored, I will get something more practical. 
I don't think my intercooler is hurting performance, yes fmic would be better, but the price was right and simplicity was king. After driving hard the pipes are cooler to the touch after the intercooler than b4. But stay tuned... a redesign may be coming
Since my clutch can't hold for "spec" while I'm in boost I'm almost glad my turbo doesn't start to kick in till later at this point. But I have a secret weapon that is in the development stage I call the frankenclutchkin 5000.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

my boost is now up to 11psi, thanks NXS $10 MBC, doesn't make the the car "feel" that much differnt. However, 
Does make speedo move much faster
have to keep close eye on redline all the time
Burns lots of expensive premium fuel


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: (boglog42)*

could I get some detailed instructions on what I need
to make that little tester thing you used to find your boost leak?
and on tha spec clutch dont do it I bought one about 6 weeks ago it broke about two weeks later busted all the poprivits in the disk but I am still using the pressureplate with a stock disk ive ben running it hard and its ben doing fine.


_Modified by 2.0t mk2 at 3:13 AM 6-1-2008_


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (2.0t mk2)*

3" pipe cap from plumbing dept of home depot motorsports, drill hole in the center and push a vaccum line in there. Connect other end to blower tool on compressor, and be sure to reset the regulator to a reasonable psi level so you don't blow something. Listen for leaks and use soapy water to find them if they're not completely obvious.


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: (boglog42)*

just finished making it and am about to test it ill let you know what happens.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (2.0t mk2)*

Well I got all pro and busted out the paintcan to spray away the ghetto looks and am in the design phase of some wicked fan cooling and ducting action for my intercooler. Still don't have a new clutch so I guess I still suck. Do you think I need an engine hoist or can I just lever out the engine with a chain strapped to a 2x4?


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## 20B_envy (Mar 16, 2006)

clutchnet makes great clutches... so does southbend (is that the right name? i can't remember)


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## Skot53 (May 15, 2005)

*Re: (boglog42)*

Hooray for budget builds!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif As far as your clutch goes... leave the engine in place. The transmission is the one that comes out. Here's a ROUGH description of what you need to do. (others, feel free to chip in)
Jack up front of car, remove both front tires, remove both half-shafts.
(ghetto trick to get to axle bolts)








Remove starter and undo front motor mount after bracing engine. Undo assorted cables and wires, marking their location (take pictures!) Remove transmission.








Replace clutch, and re-assemble. Don't forget about torque spec!
Hope this helps...


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: (Skot53)*

i dont know bout the fan idea youre gunna pull hot air from the bay over the IC... id seriously check out "ebay motorsports" you can get a universal piping and Ic for like 150-160 shipped if u wanna be cheap


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (Skot53)*

I think if I crawled up in my engine bay like that I would never be able to get out but would def make a funny picture







. Thanks for the advice. I heard about those southbend clutches from someone else too so I might give that a go. 
I'm definetly cheap but don't hate on my fans, they look wicked sweet, were free, and suck air from a duct behind the bumper. Yes they blow this air directly into the hood where there's only ~.0025" of space, and probably add more weight than performance but I really don't care. It was flowing zero air across the core before and was probably hurting performance. Which I think someone pointed out earlier







.
My clutch on the other hand is really not so fresh, I'm going to need to replace it very soon if I plan on still driving, let alone boosting. Also now the pedal seems to get stuck halfway down, then when I least expect it flies up and scares me. Any thoughts?


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: (boglog42)*

I hear ya on the free thing but just because its free dosent mean its the best choice. I got a free sidemount from a buddy and after weighing out the positives and negatives I decided to pay "ebay motorsports" and bought a fmic but if I where u I'd buy one of those universal piping kits and run
It behind the bumper and you will deft reduce heatsoak


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

i LOL'd at the fans!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to homemade ish!


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## Skot53 (May 15, 2005)

*Re: (boglog42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boglog42* »_Also now the pedal seems to get stuck halfway down, then when I least expect it flies up and scares me. Any thoughts? 

Hmm... Double check the cable and it's connections under the hood and under the dash. Also check the pivot point of the clutch pedal, sometimes things get bound up... HTH.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (boglog42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boglog42* »_I think if I crawled up in my engine bay like that I would never be able to get out but would def make a funny picture







. Thanks for the advice. I heard about those southbend clutches from someone else too so I might give that a go. 
I'm definetly cheap but don't hate on my fans, they look wicked sweet, were free, and suck air from a duct behind the bumper. Yes they blow this air directly into the hood where there's only ~.0025" of space, and probably add more weight than performance but I really don't care. It was flowing zero air across the core before and was probably hurting performance. Which I think someone pointed out earlier







.
My clutch on the other hand is really not so fresh, I'm going to need to replace it very soon if I plan on still driving, let alone boosting. Also now the pedal seems to get stuck halfway down, then when I least expect it flies up and scares me. Any thoughts? 

your clutch peddle problem is an ajustment problem...and the over center assist spring on the peddle cluster......
as far as spec clutches....I have a Spec stage 3 in my car....4 years now....and make more power than you fellas







No worries no problems no drama


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (WindsorJetta8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WindsorJetta8v* »_ I give you credit for using a limited number of clamps and welding everything and using steel over aluminum.


Just curious.. but why steel over aluminum? Aluminum dosnt get nearly as hot as steel and its a hell of alot lighter..


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

Actually, although aluminum dissapates heat faster it also takes less time to heat up as opposed to steel. They both get equally "hot" based on the temperature they're exposed to. More importanly, I don't have aluminum welding technology otherwise I probably would have used it. Lord knows its a lot easier to cut, lighter, but much tougher to bend.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

I knew this was a bad idea but had to do it in the name of science. I used a smaller compressor side and created a poor mans gt2560r with a .42ar compressor from a chrysler t3 and my original .63ar exhaust turbine.








My initial thought was with a smaller wheel and housing I would be able to cut lag, generate more psi and better match the airflow requirments of my motor. If anyone has ever considering doing this I can now say without any doubt it's a bad idea. I drove around after swapping all the parts and the results are: 
it doesn't spool any faster
feels like less power than before
sounds really wimpy by comparison
was a tremendous waste of time/effort
Although, if this could be considered positive, the power delivery is much smoother and linear, but not nearly as much fun as before. I'm switching it back as soon as I can.
On another note, I partially fixed my pedal issue, it doesn't seem to be doing the sticking anymore. I think that the cable may have just been getting bound up inside. I pulled it down by hand and there was a bunch of 'stuff' built up in the sheath bit which I cleaned out and seems ok now.


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: (boglog42)*

i dunno if swapping wheels and housings like that is safe, but i may be wrong
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for havin the balls to try it, i know i wouldnt rip apart my turbo like that unless i knew it has worked for others.


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## A.Wilder (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: (boglog42)*

cool, i love when people experiment with things like this. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
it didn't work as hoped, but you learned something and had fun. hands on learnin' is the best learnin' http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (A.Wilder)*

My sole mission is to try stupid things and see whether they make the car faster, slower, or explode into bits.


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## hell-on-wheels (Feb 18, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boglog42* »_My sole mission..........explode into bits. 

Sorry had to.
But serious note, I would not want to swap wheels like that. Leaving parts unbalanced that are suppose to be balanced is not a good idea (unless of course you have money to burn. By that I mean parts came apart and enter the engine. 
Other than that DIY guys are in a group all by themselves.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (hell-on-wheels)*

Maybe that explains why it was rattling really badly at 10psi? I have the boost turned down right now and it doesn't make the death rattle noises anymore, but I am going to switch back to the old setup asap. It was a bad idea, from the start. 
On another note, if anybody is looking for a used chrysler t3 .42/.48 with oem downpipe w/ wastegate flapper, o2 sensor, oem intake elbow, and two homemade flanges 2" and 2.5" send me an IM..... it needs a rebuild and is in pieces but who knows maybe it's what you're looking for.


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: Turbo aba build (boglog42)*

how much boost are you wanting to run?


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: Turbo aba build (2.0t mk2)*

I was previously at 11psi before I made the switch to the smaller compressor housing which is not working. It's pointless to run any more boost till I put in a new clutch. My ultimate goal would be 16psi because according to my calculations it would have me at ~200whp. Weren't you running that b4 I bought the chip off you?


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: Turbo aba build (boglog42)*

I was running 10psi with a small side mount IC and a sabb t3 a/r 42 and put down 185hp 192tq but that was in 80+ digree weather. Now im running diggy 1 t3/4 ar 48/60 and a decent size FMIC. havent had it on the dino yet but im est. 200+whp


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: Turbo aba build (2.0t mk2)*

wow thats pretty impressive, i really hope i can pull close to that on the dyno, as soon as i decide on a clutch and get it in im going to bemaking an appointment http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Bojje (Jul 31, 2007)

I still don't get it how you guys run a chip and play around with the boost etc without changing the fueling. Increasing boost = lean AFR if you don't mix with the fueling. I'd look into megasquirt if I'd be you. Pretty complicated but once you get it running you'll do your own tuning... kickass if you ask me, and cheap too!
How's the ebay turbo working? I've heard some real horror stories about them. I'd try it out if I'd have a budget build like you. I love what you're doing


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (Bojje)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bojje* »_I still don't get it how you guys run a chip and play around with the boost etc without changing the fueling. Increasing boost = lean AFR if you don't mix with the fueling. I'd look into megasquirt if I'd be you. Pretty complicated but once you get it running you'll do your own tuning... kickass if you ask me, and cheap too!
How's the ebay turbo working? I've heard some real horror stories about them. I'd try it out if I'd have a budget build like you. I love what you're doing








thats how the ecus work...as long as your not exceeding the limits of the injectors...the ecu will see more air and thus increase fueling itself to match what you want it to.


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: (Bojje)*



Bojje said:


> I still don't get it how you guys run a chip and play around with the boost etc without changing the fueling. Increasing boost = lean AFR if you don't mix with the fueling. I'd look into megasquirt if I'd be you. Pretty complicated but once you get it running you'll do your own tuning... kickass if you ask me, and cheap too!
> I ran the c2 softwear and liked it but thought I could get more with the megasquirt but had problems with it like crazy so now im running diggy 1 it runs just as good as the c2 softwear but much much more simple to wire up.


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## Bojje (Jul 31, 2007)

*Re: (2.0t mk2)*

Yeah, the megasquirt is a bit to handle. All the wiring + the tuning isn't to easy. But if you manage it once you'll be able to tune all of your cars which is great. No need to pay a tuner and such with every new car and when you're also doing upgrades and such


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Bojje)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bojje* »_Yeah, the megasquirt is a bit to handle. All the wiring + the tuning isn't to easy. But if you manage it once you'll be able to tune all of your cars which is great. No need to pay a tuner and such with every new car and when you're also doing upgrades and such









I'm running the C2 440 program....at 24 psi using a 4 bar reg....
still had 14 afr at cruise and idle....and drops to 11.5~12.5 at full load and boost...Drives same as stock only stupid fast at full boost..and still gets around 30mpg on the highway if i drive like a normal person my age.....
But that never happens








My money is on my next dyno to be 295whp and 315wtq
Stand alone is a pain at first....but once dialed in its the ish...
99% of people should use C2 software..as they are not going to get any benefit going stand alone....
if you dont want more than 300 at the wheels you do not need stand alone...period


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

I agree


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (2.0t mk2)*

I agree too, the c2 software is based on using all the stock sensors and maf. Thus, it knows the amount of boost your running and automatically adjusts. It's intuitive like that which is why it kicks ass.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (bulldogger72)*

Totally untrue. I know from experience on my first car I turboed back in 97. Intercooler will still cool the charge considerably however, it will never cool below under hood temps. 
Nice work, you might want to work those pipes again with smooth lines for best flow. After all, that's what it all boils down too...flow in, flow out.


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## vdub1998 (Aug 1, 2007)

*Re: Turbo aba build (boglog42)*

when u had your turbo on and running did it ever ping or knock when u were putting a load on it


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: Turbo aba build (vdub1998)*

It makes a lot of noises, but nothing like that. Overall it's fairly quiet now that I've found all the places where the pipes were either rubbing or rattling.


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: Turbo aba build (boglog42)*

ever get a clutch? i just picked up southbend stg2 but all dealership service and parts closed needed clutch flywheel bolts







ill let you know how it goes


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: Turbo aba build (WindsorJetta8v)*

Yeah, I've got money to buy one now too but just haven't committed yet. I would love to know how your install goes.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: Turbo aba build (boglog42)*

Wow, went down to seattle this weekend and on the way home had my rear tire blowout on the freeway







Luckily I did not die or anything, but I had to buy an new tire and lost one of my hubcaps







If anyone has one let me know, otherwise I'm rolling like this.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (WindsorJetta8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WindsorJetta8v* »_i dunno if swapping wheels and housings like that is safe, but i may be wrong
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for havin the balls to try it, i know i wouldnt rip apart my turbo like that unless i knew it has worked for others.

Swapping T3 wheels/housing with othe rT3 wheels/housing is perfectly fine. However, your method here is backwards. If anything, keep a small exhaust wheel and increase the size of the compressor wheel.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

Totally reminds me of my first turbo build! I learned a lot doing it. It's a great way to get into forced induction, and you don't feel so bad if you mess up, 'cause it's not an expensive engine to replace. Luckily, mine lasted 4 years, and when it blew, it wasn't the result of any mistake on my part, which I was happy about.
As for the turbo compressor swap, you never want to do that. The turbo will fail 99% of the time*. Also, when dealing with small turbos like these, compressor wheel size will have very little effect on the spoolup. The turbine wheel and housing are going to make the most difference.
* Not an actual verified figure.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_
As for the turbo compressor swap, you never want to do that. The turbo will fail 99% of the time*.
* Not an actual verified figure.

I really don't see how it can be bad if the wheel/housing are matched and the wheel set is balanced before assembly.


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## ricecart (Jul 11, 2007)

hey boglog... have you thought of running water meth injection? if you want a little more power just for shizz and giggles. fill your tank with 87 and add 2 ounces of 100% acetone. youll feel a lil more pep from it. so you save money on gas AND get a lil more power. i ran that in my 2.0 a few times and it was a very noticable difference. all in all i really like your setup man. cheap build yet satisfying results. why dont you try going with a g60 flywheel and a vr6 clutch. g60 flywheel is lighter vr6 clutch holds good for the amount of power you currently have. but let me know how things go whichever route you take


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (magics5rip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magics5rip* »_I really don't see how it can be bad if the wheel/housing are matched and the wheel set is balanced before assembly. 

Sorry, I meant to say, you never want to just throw on another wheel and housing without having the wheels balanced.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

BTW, I got a hubcap from ebay, it was low quality and doesn't fit very well, but it was the right one. 
I kinda knew that doing the reverse ass swap on the wheels wasn't a good idea. Especially since the parts I used weren't new at all. I am going to try out another ebay thing for a $75 rebuild kit that offers free balancing, you just send in the shaft. Then I hopefully will have some better quality balanced parts and can run 10psi again without sounding like it's tearing itself apart.
My initial plan was the change the turbine housing till I found out the chrysler 5bolt style is not the same as the others. After I got the correct chrysler downpipe flange/wastgate assm, I realized it was pointing the wrong direction







and to use it I would have to move the downpipe to the passenger side







ie. back to square one, complete redesign of all plumbing. 
I've been saving some money, so hopefully I will be able to change some stuff, more like when time meets with money. Since I'm not running 11psi now, my clutch project doesn't seem as important. I did manage to score a mk4 intake, valve cover and other goodies so stay tuned.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

For those that aren't aware, this is the reason why you would want to run the mk4 2.0L intake vs the mk3.








That's 41.3mm vs 35mm for those metric folks.


_Modified by boglog42 at 12:39 PM 7-26-2008_


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: (boglog42)*

very very true on the mk4 intakes , they are larger diameter indeed, speeking of intakes.....wait till you see what im getting myself into







this it going to be it for the season tho cuz im pretty much cleaning out my checking account on this one! as long as all goes well next week at this time ill be rocking my secret wepon, or atleast have it in my posession


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## whiteriot (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: (boglog42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boglog42* »_For those that aren't aware, this is the reason why you would want to run the mk4 2.0L intake vs the mk3.








That's 41.3mm vs 35mm for those metric folks.

_Modified by boglog42 at 12:39 PM 7-26-2008_

it's all fine and dandy to increase the port diameter of the intake if the ports on the cylinder head match it. i'd say it would be detrimental to add a mk4 intake if the mk3's are that much smaller because it would just bottleneck air flow right at the head and cause a sh*tload of air turbulance at the same time.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (whiteriot)*

In fact the intake port matches perfectly with no modifications because the mk3 and mk4 use the same head. The picture is taken from the point of view where the upper manifold would attach. The increased diameter and longer runners in the upper manifold combine to not only increase peak torque but shift it to lower in the rpm range. My theory is that this will help me go faster where I am the slowest, the pre boost lagtime of anticipation zone.


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## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

*Re: (boglog42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boglog42* »_In fact the intake port matches perfectly with no modifications because the mk3 and mk4 use the same head. The picture is taken from the point of view where the upper manifold would attach. The increased diameter and longer runners in the upper manifold combine to not only increase peak torque but shift it to lower in the rpm range. My theory is that this will help me go faster where I am the slowest, the pre boost lagtime of anticipation zone. 

A tapered manifold with smaller rather than larger runners is what benefits torque more... Velocity is your main concern for low end power. Larger runners allow for more overall flow, and therefore more horsepower (if your head can handle it) but reduce the air velocity. And while I'm no expert in boost, I thought the more volume post turbo, the more room the turbo has to fill, the greater the lag... Correct me if I'm wrong?
So, assuming the head can take it, the manifold would technically increase your overall horsepower, but reduce your low end power.
Haha, not to be a salesman or anything, but I've got intake manifold flanges for custom fabbing your own intake for sale... Sounds like it might be a touch out of your budget for a custom mani, tho...


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (notso2slo)*

The diameter of the runners is actually less important than the fact the individual runners are longer. Tuning the length of the individual runners has more effect on the what rpm your cylinders are going to fill most efficiently and ultimately where your torque band will appear. This is all based on the almost scientific article found here.
http://www.grapeaperacing.com/...s.pdf 
At high rpm and boost it's more important to flow the greatest amount of air possible without having velocity go up too high. Increasing velocity by reducing diameter of pipe causes more work. This is intuitive if you think about drinking straw technology. Since the head port/valve diameter is fixed (relatively) having the least restrictions to this point would be best IMO. 
Supposedly it's important to match all these things, tradeoffs, blah blah.... which, when looking at my build it obviously hasn't taken place, but I've got a soapbox and I'm gonna use it.


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## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

*Re: (boglog42)*

What you are saying is exactly what I was... Such a mod will help your engine breathe better under FI, but while you're waiting for your boost to kick in, it will have a negative effect on performance... Just depends on what your goals are, better drivability down low, or more power overall. Tuning is all about trade-offs.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (notso2slo)*

This is not what I was saying. Taking advantage of helmholtz resonance is all about runner length, not diameter. The longer runners on the mk4 intake will benifit the low end. The diameter increase will not effect low end performance significantly. My head is stock. There's ~3.25" from the intake port to the valve. This is the restrictive point in the system. Velocity, relative to the air volume flowing through it, will be the same no matter how the air gets there.


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## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

are you running a full mk4 intake manifold?


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (notso2slo)*

Yes I plan on running the entire thing, upper and lower portion. I haven't put it together yet. I'm going to have to completely redesign the turbo plumbing to go round the other side and although this sounds ridiculous, I want to wait till I run out of gas before I start on it. Also I bought an oil cooler from a reputable source, no actually it was ebay, that I need to install too. We shall see how universal it actually is, and whether or not it helps control my 250*f+ temps.


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## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

IM sent


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## gulfen (Feb 2, 2008)

*Re: Turbo aba build (boglog42)*

You have any pictures of the fabrication of your down pipe... or is it all custom? Im having trouble with my setup. Going to have to fabricate my own downpipe and spot for o2. 
Nice setup!


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: (boglog42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boglog42* »_Y Also I bought an oil cooler from a reputable source, no actually it was ebay, that I need to install too. We shall see how universal it actually is, and whether or not it helps control my 250*f+ temps.


you should see if ebay will offer you a sponsorsip throw a big ebay decal windshield banner up!
I cant believe what giid luck you have had with the ebay turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (WindsorJetta8v)*

Maybe I will, a small one though, or a vanity plate. I saw your post about your turbo, that sucks. Mine is still functioning fine though with no issues and has been taken apart and put back together several times, and had various used chrysler parts substituted. Since you've thrown paranonia my way though, I am going to buy a proper rebuild kit to upgrade the weak-ass bearings and get the whole thing balanced.
My downpipe pictures are limited besides the one on the first page that only really show the bottom. You don't want to see the welding job, it looks like cross between tin man and frankenstien. I got the v-band style connection up top which made it easy because it could rotate 360* on axis. 
I just cobbled together bits of bent 2.5" pipe from the top down one piece at a time and got it wrong several times. I ended with that flex coupler and 3bolt flange. The o2, I just drilled out a hole in the flex coupler and welded a bung on there since cat is gone.


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: (boglog42)*

any updates or plans?


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (WindsorJetta8v)*

I have my new oil cooler, a big FMIC (28x7x2.5"), MK4 intake, and want to get the turbo rebuild kit I was talking about with the free balancing included. Since I need to fab up everything from scratch again, it will be a while till it all gets done. Also, I've been working weekends. Great for money to buy parts, hard to make shop time, or sleep in ever.
Also, not soon after touting the greatness of my ebay turbo again, my isht started smoking a bit from the tailpipe under boost. I haven't been driving it since then and am hoping it's the turbo and not my rings. However, my oil pressure has been dangerously low at idle, but for now I'm pretending it's just my oil gauge malfunctioning







.



_Modified by boglog42 at 10:12 PM 3-16-2009_


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

My turbo rebuild kit arrived and I've sent the assm out for balancing. It turns out the smoking was def from the turbo since when I cracked it open the carbon seal was shattered into five pieces and there was coked oil all over the inside of the baffle on the turbine side. The shaft was able to move in out side to side and wiggle a lot. Really glad I decided to rebuild it when I did. We will see how that goes.
6 month later edit......Beyond main bearings being wiped (oil pressure) Turns out after disassembly that ringlands were completly cracked on 3 pistons and fell apart in my hands once removed from bore. I think this contributed to the smoking much more than turbo in retrospect...... 


_Modified by boglog42 at 10:13 PM 3-16-2009_


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

Hanging FMIC, makes it look pretty easy in picture. Too bad the bumper doesn't fit. I might need to cut re-bar up higher but the a/c heat exchanger is not my pal right now. I think the mk4 intake will make a lot more sense in configuration. Had fun trying to relocate throttle cable, IAC valve, and have developed the most complex pcv system ever, because I'm scared of evil vapors destroying my engine. 








Engine bay








Intake mock-up








front + intercooler








Hopefully, I'll be able to get the rest of the piping finished soon for the moment I'm just resisting the urge to perform major surgery on the bumper


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

Well I have no self control and am completely embarassed about the amount of cutting I did to my bumper. It's really ridiculous I will post a photo when it's done. Trying to retain the AC with a 2.5" thick FMIC was not a smart move on my part







. But I got all the piping bent at the muffler shop and it looks nice and might work.

The turbo re-build/balancing turned out to be more work than I thought. After I shipped the assm he said my compressor wheel was "bad" and that I needed to provide a suitable replacement.... After searching everywhere I found one, it's being shipped, then I have to ship it to the balancing guy and have it come back. Maybe next week?


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## Skot53 (May 15, 2005)

*Re: (boglog42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boglog42* »_Well I have no self control and am completely embarassed about the amount of cutting I did to my bumper. It's really ridiculous I will post a photo when it's done. Trying to retain the AC with a 2.5" thick FMIC was not a smart move on my part







. But I got all the piping bent at the muffler shop and it looks nice and might work.


Haha, that's okay. mine is pretty hacked up too. As long as you got it to fit straight (left side as far out as the right) it won't look too terrible. I had a lot of trouble with that and it looks a little c0ck-eyed.







Luckily, I have a black car with a black IC.
edit: "male-chicken" is censored.


_Modified by Skot53 at 10:32 AM 9-11-2008_


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (Skot53)*

It seemed really close when I first put it on, but both sides bowed out about 1/2". I tried cutting a little more, then little more, little more... pretty much went crazy and cut out entire center section. Now have been looking around for a different bumper that might fit with more clearance back there.


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (boglog42)*

Before I started rebuilding the turbo there was an incident where my oil pressure got really low for a minute. Then I just ignored it and started with rebuilding the turbo. At some point I realized my homemade drain pipe had been rubbing on the driveline, very bad. I pulled the pan to fix it and saw the pearly chunky shiz that was my oil. Then I pulled the caps and saw my mains were pretty much toast, and my oil pump was now junk. I don't know if I can attribute it all to the turbo, but ironically before I looked at the bottom end I had already rebuilt it. So now I feel I am committed to rebuilding the entire thing, or at least doing a half ass job of it. I haven't posted anything because I'm at a total loss of what I want/need to do right now. But my intercooler and piping for the mk4 intake is basically done. Doesn't do me much good with a junk engine though. 
















I honestly thought there was enough clearance... Then again I don't think I was realistic about the range of suspension travel.
























This project has entered phase 2


_Modified by boglog42 at 8:59 PM 10-26-2008_


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## raymondlee (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: Turbo aba build (gulfen)*

watched


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: (Skot53)*

I had to buy a new bumper cause I hacked mine up so bad


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (2.0t mk2)*

Here are some engine building highlights...








This is how to save on an engine hoist for such a tiny engine. I reinforced this before putting rebuilt engine in, little bit of a bow there...








This is what a clean head looks like. New lifters, stem seals and clean components slightly used TT 260FI cam Thanks, Vortex member whom I forgot right now








Properly surfaced for MLS gasket, valves re-ground and seats cut








Turbo people seem to like these NGK BKR7E plugs and 0.023" gap, so I am trying them out.








Honed the block, put new rings on used pistons 








Sometimes people wonder about ABA STD piston size 82.485








I used two head gaskets for low compression, kinda dumb, but head bolts torqued to spec +90degrees +90degrees with new bolts. Look at the dots move 180 degrees, that's excitement 








Ready to go back in.......

_Modified by boglog42 at 9:30 PM 3-15-2009_


_Modified by boglog42 at 9:37 PM 3-15-2009_


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (boglog42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boglog42* »_I knew this was a bad idea but had to do it in the name of science. I used a smaller compressor side and created a poor mans gt2560r with a .42ar compressor from a chrysler t3 and my original .63ar exhaust turbine.








My initial thought was with a smaller wheel and housing I would be able to cut lag, generate more psi and better match the airflow requirments of my motor. If anyone has ever considering doing this I can now say without any doubt it's a bad idea. I drove around after swapping all the parts and the results are: 
it doesn't spool any faster
feels like less power than before
sounds really wimpy by comparison
was a tremendous waste of time/effort
Although, if this could be considered positive, the power delivery is much smoother and linear, but not nearly as much fun as before. I'm switching it back as soon as I can.
On another note, I partially fixed my pedal issue, it doesn't seem to be doing the sticking anymore. I think that the cable may have just been getting bound up inside. I pulled it down by hand and there was a bunch of 'stuff' built up in the sheath bit which I cleaned out and seems ok now. 


to be a GT2560R you would need a GT25 turbine wheel and a 60 trim compressor.
T3/T4's were created because Turbonetics felt the need to have a large T4 compressor being driven by a smaller T3 turbine to spool up faster.
You went the opposite way...


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (killa)*

right, well I was wrong to call it poor mans GT2560R how bout ignorant does that suffice? It does say garrett in big letters on the side now though.


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## cabriosnap (Apr 24, 2009)

*Re: (boglog42)*

dude....how much do you charge for doing custom piping...im in tacoma and really considering a turbo build now that i have the car up to par









let me know

awsome build thread btw


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## kroutbrner (Nov 2, 2009)

*Re: (cabriosnap)*

Props to you for doing it yourself! There is nothing more rewarding. Congrats on all your work and a great VW.

Cheers


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## boglog42 (Mar 4, 2008)

Like many turbo build threads this one has seemingly fizzled into obscurity without any more information regarding progress ect. so, for the record....

Rebuild #2 did not go as planned. basically after so much work/time/money invested it ran for a while then suffered complete engine failure. It was pretty sad overall.

If you're thinking about doing a home cylinder hone job, don't do it on a high mileage engine that has been flogged to death. I think that having excessive piston to wall clearance/out of round bores, (although my ring end gaps were in spec *0.25mm OS rings custom ground to achieve this) combined with my silly choice to use the "stacked head gaskets" to lower compression caused the engine to have too little compression and extreme blowby after my short break in period. 

Judging from my previous wear pattern and post failure analysis it is likely that the crank was bent too, should have had this straightened and reground or replaced.

Car was already running for about 30 minutes and drove around the block fine up to 50mph. Next day was cruising down the road trying not to press beyond 3000rpm, feeling the turbo start to spool a little bit everything good, car is warm, oil pressure stable, quiet, no leaks, Came to stoplight, car dies. Re-start, car coughs and sputters black smoke through intersection, limps to gas station on other side, will not start . At this point I was really, really, really, done with this project, and could not see myself trying to rebuild this engine again.

Sold it for $900 and a ride back to my house to local VW mechanic. He showed me the damage afterwards. He swapped a new engine in and brought it back to stock basically and re-sold it.

It was really fun and I do recommend it to anyone who is willing to give it a shot. It's been almost 2years now so I think I'm ready to take what I've learned and re-apply it to a new and better project probably a mk1.


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