# A very technical build



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Hi guys! 

Starting a build thread here for my Mk4 Jetta Wolfsburg Ed. I am going at it very technically being a mechanical engineer with a specialization in fluid mechanics  

Car in question: 









I have spoken to Will and have gotten some questions about shipping to Canada answered and he was a big help. I will be ordering April 15th :thumbup: 

Still in the planning phase and getting a model together so that everything will run really smoothly during the actual install, that's what i do. 

*So a bit about the system i will be running....* 
- Triple 444c compressors 
- 3 Gallon aluminum tank 
- 5 Gallon aluminum tank 
- e-Level management 
- flow control on all lines 
- single water trap 
- swagelok & ptc fittings 
- polished copper hardlines to dot softlines under car 
- stainless leader lines 
- airlift slam xl fronts 
- airlift performance rears 
- bilstein rear shocks 

*A bit about the configuration of my setup.....* 
I will be running the 3x444c compressors through check valves to a 3/8" common manifold then into the smaller 3 Gallon "buffer" tank. The reason i will run it straight there is because i want to give the air time to cool before hitting the water trap. This way the air will be flowing at a slower speed through the water trap at all times. Basically instead of the 2.4 cfm going straight through the trap with little room to slow down and cool it will start to fill up the tank a bit and then travel slower (approx 60% of the speed) through the trap on its way to the 5 gallon aluminum tank. 

Right before the water trap i have a check valve for the simple concept that i am connecting the water trap to the BOTTOM of the 5 gallon tank. This way any water that would have been collected in the 5 gallon tank flows DOWN the walls of the tank, to the bottom outlet, through the leader hose and back into the water trap. This way i can drain everything from the trunk. (see model pictures for reference on the relationship between the 5 gallon tank and water trap) 

Using the two tanks will give me versatility as well. Because i put the check valve in there i can now use the manifold to pump up tires, air mattresses if i decide to go camping/to my cabin etc from the 3 gallon tank and have the 5 gallon always full. This way the compressors won't turn on until the 5 gallon tank gets low or unless i manually over-ride this. It will be a nice feature for functionality i think. 

So after the 5 gallon tank I will pipe it to the valve unit. After this i will run flow controls so each corner can be adjusted for flow times up and also down. There will be a little bit of piping to make this happen just how i want to but no big deal. Everything will be hidden in the spare wheel well. 

Off of each tank i am going to run a 1/8" line to the front under my deck for tank pressure gauges. This is to determine if i have any leaks or if i have used air for any auxilary purpose too much and it needs to be refilled. 

As for all the piping it will all be 3/8" and i will restrict it down as necessary. 

*A bit about the construction of my trunk* 
There will be 2 seperate sections of my trunk, split front rear style by a faux wall (haven't yet decided if it will be completely vertical or if it will be vertical until it clears my tank and then 45's forward towards the front of the car). 

In the front section there will be a 4" raised floor (2x4 + 0.5" solid/non removable floor) with removable panel. This will cover the base of the air tank so that i do not have to hard pipe the short distance between the floor and the bottom tank outlet where i am running a line from my water trap. In the removable panel there will be enough room for my amp for my sub. The removable panel is not shown in the model but it will be there in real life. It is to the right of the tank in *picture 1* 

In the rear section there will be a 1.75" raised floor (2x4 + 0.25" removable floor). This is to accomodate the height of the 3 gallon tank so that i don't have to cut through the flooring. I don't like the flat trunk with the exposed part of a tank look but that is just my personal preference. I am sure that i am doing some things that you guys don't necessarily like either  

The whole trunk will be sprayed with black gravlguard (truck bed liner or similar) to give it a rough texture and hopefully this will prevent a bit of vibration and give it a clean-ish look if i remove the floor. 


*Now onto the pictures of the model which i am sure will impress nobody*  

Picture 1: This is looking at the trunk from the rear seats. The seats will fold down and you will see only the floor and the tank. All the pipes will be piped from the back of the tank the short distance through the floor. There will also be an airline hook up (ran from the 3 gallon tank) on the far left front side for easy plug in. 









Picture 2: Please ignore the huge walls  This is a shot from outside the car looking in on the trunk with a transparent false floor. 









Picture 3: More transparency with a good shot of the rear ports of the tank 









Picture 4: Shot of the "removable" insert for the spare tire well. Two common manifolds, check valve in between them so that the air flows from the compressors into the tank first instead of going to the 5 gallon one straight away. Line on the left is for the auxilary air outlet and the water trap is on the right. Valves and wiring will be on the very front of the panel and will be mostly out of sight (hidden from the floor on top) 









Picture 5: Another view 











So I am definitely up for any discussion what-so-ever about what i am doing and why or if you have any comments or criticisms let me know. I'm Canadian eh so i'm nice 

opcorn:


----------



## firebert (Feb 25, 2008)

Nice to see another ME on the fourms. My focus is on machine design so I'm sure I have to go through a couple of old text books before I start criticizing lol 

The only part I'm having a bit of trouble understanding is the need for flow controls if you are using the e-Level system. The ECU automatically adjust for rise and drop speeds during the calibration process so that everything remains even during operation.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

firebert said:


> Nice to see another ME on the fourms. My focus is on machine design so I'm sure I have to go through a couple of old text books before I start criticizing lol
> 
> The only part I'm having a bit of trouble understanding is the need for flow controls if you are using the e-Level system. The ECU automatically adjust for rise and drop speeds during the calibration process so that everything remains even during operation.


 Does it now? I haven't read much on the control system so thanks for the info, should make piping stupidly easy now haha. Do you know of any sites or technical documents on the e-level system as to what exactly the calibration process is? I would like to just double check that I have the complete functionality that I want


----------



## zrace07 (Jul 26, 2007)

This guy's the real deal. :thumbup:


----------



## firebert (Feb 25, 2008)

MechEngg said:


> Does it now? I haven't read much on the control system so thanks for the info, should make piping stupidly easy now haha. Do you know of any sites or technical documents on the e-level system as to what exactly the calibration process is? I would like to just double check that I have the complete functionality that I want


 I don't think any are released to the public but one of my old class mates from Cal Poly actually went for work for Accuair. I'll see what I can squeeze out of him lol :laugh:


----------



## OVRWRKD (Jul 1, 2010)

MEs ftw:thumbup: Is that solid works I see? I did the same thing on my first setup now I just eyeball it cuz I'm lazy lol. Keep up the good work:beer:


----------



## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

FYI, you can download accurate 3D models from SMC's website, just register (free) for their e-tech catalog. If you're using Parker stuff, they have 3D models available for download as well. McMaster sells all sorts of fittings and they provide native Solidworks models most of the time.


----------



## Matty905 (Mar 24, 2011)

*wow*

very nice i like the planning so far looks like its gunna be clean :thumbup:


----------



## Capt. Obvious (Oct 23, 2006)

The definition of "overkill", but it's gonna look great.  :thumbup:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Capt. Obvious said:


> The definition of "overkill", but it's gonna look great.  :thumbup:


 Thanks, overkill is better than wishing you had just a bit more to play with  



Matty905 said:


> very nice i like the planning so far looks like its gunna be clean :thumbup:


 Planning is half the battle usually haha. I hope it looks as clean as i envision it! 



Afazz said:


> FYI, you can download accurate 3D models from SMC's website, just register (free) for their e-tech catalog. If you're using Parker stuff, they have 3D models available for download as well. McMaster sells all sorts of fittings and they provide native Solidworks models most of the time.


 I didn't bother with downloading free stuff because it was easy enough to find dimensions and quickly model it up. The whole thing took me maybe and hour and a half. 



OVRWRKD said:


> MEs ftw:thumbup: Is that solid works I see? I did the same thing on my first setup now I just eyeball it cuz I'm lazy lol. Keep up the good work:beer:


 Yessir it is solidworks. I am proficient in Solidworks, Inventor, Autocad and Bentley. It just seemed right to model it up to see if my plan would physically fit in the space i have. 



firebert said:


> I don't think any are released to the public but one of my old class mates from Cal Poly actually went for work for Accuair. I'll see what I can squeeze out of him lol :laugh:


 Yes please do man! Any information that i can get the better i will be. Plus this way i can include a bunch of wiring and control works in my diagrams at home. 



zrace07 said:


> This guy's the real deal. :thumbup:


 Yessir i am real and this is my deal opcorn:


----------



## hellaSmoked (Nov 24, 2004)

One of the better threads on vortex right now. :beer:


----------



## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

:thumbup: for calgary, air ride and a well planned build


----------



## kilimats (Mar 5, 2006)

subscribed, this will be fun opcorn: 

take lots of pic :thumbup:eace:


----------



## wagner17 (Oct 20, 2009)

im in for this.. will be a great build:thumbup:


----------



## 2800kubik (Sep 22, 2004)

Solidworks? pfffffff just eyeball it haha. j/k I'm a ME major so I can appreciate this. I'm actually working on an enclosure to silence my compressor. Good luck with the build!


----------



## DubberNix (Jan 29, 2002)

Those 444s draw 38 amps each at full load. Three of them is 114 amps and your alternator only puts out 120 amps max, less at idle. Sure, you can upgrade to a higher output alternator, but if you need more performance than Dual 444s, you may want to consider Dual 480s as a more efficient (fill rate/amp draw) setup. 

My suggestion is to stick with two 444s and use the extra money on the key fob remotes.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

DubberNix said:


> Those 444s draw 38 amps each at full load. Three of them is 114 amps and your alternator only puts out 120 amps max, less at idle. Sure, you can upgrade to a higher output alternator, but if you need more performance than Dual 444s, you may want to consider Dual 480s as a more efficient (fill rate/amp draw) setup.
> My suggestion is to stick with two 444s and use the extra money on the key fob remotes.


 Actually the max draw on DUAL 444's is 38A (will be maximum 35A due to the pressure range i am running it at). Therefore TRIPLE 444's will run me only 57A maximum and i can deal with that. In comparison i used to run 750W RMS for my two subs which had a fairly high current draw and my alternator did fine. 

BTW i only have a 90A alternator so yes i am upgrading it to a 120A. This should be more than enough for my setup but thanks for trying to look at all the aspects of the build  

DUAL 444C Performance Data 
PSI CFM A BAR LPM A 
0	3.53	23	0	100 23 
10	3.25	27	1.0	92.0	27 
20	2.97	31	2.0	82.0	31 
30	2.86	31	3.0	76.0	35 
40	2.72	32	4.0	71.5	35 
50	2.58	34	5.0	67.0	36 
60	2.47	34	6.0	63.0	36 
70	2.37	35	7.0	60.5	37 
80	2.30	37	8.0	56.0	37 
90	2.19	37	9.0	52.0	37 
100	2.12	38	10.0	47.5	36 
110	2.01	36	11.0	44.5	36 
120	1.91	36	12.0	41.0	35 
130	1.80	35	13.0	36.5	32 
140	1.73	35	14.0	33.0	31 
150	1.62	34 
160	1.55	33 
170	1.48	32 
180	1.34	31 
190	1.24	30 
200	1.13	28 
*Supply Voltage: 13.8 Volts 




2800kubik said:


> Solidworks? pfffffff just eyeball it haha. j/k I'm a ME major so I can appreciate this. I'm actually working on an enclosure to silence my compressor. Good luck with the build!


 Haha thanks. What type of sound deadening are you using? and how will the compressors not cause a vacuum when in a full enclosure? More details pls :thumbup: 



wagner17 said:


> im in for this.. will be a great build:thumbup:





kilimats said:


> subscribed, this will be fun opcorn:
> 
> take lots of pic :thumbup:eace:


 I will take TWICE as many as you  



martin13 said:


> :thumbup: for calgary, air ride and a well planned build


 I meant to ask, how is your setup working in the winter weather? Getting much water/freeze-up in the valves and stuff? 



hellaSmoked said:


> One of the better threads on vortex right now. :beer:


 Cheers 



opcorn: 

So not much new as an update, just thinking about how i am going to mount the air manifolds and water trap to the spare tire well. I was thinking building supports and using perhaps velcro straps to strap everything down so it doesn't move around very well. Any other ideas anyone??


----------



## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

MechEngg said:


> I meant to ask, how is your setup working in the winter weather? Getting much water/freeze-up in the valves and stuff?
> 
> So not much new as an update, just thinking about how i am going to mount the air manifolds and water trap to the spare tire well. I was thinking building supports and using perhaps velcro straps to strap everything down so it doesn't move around very well. Any other ideas anyone??


 
setup has worked awesome in the winter and i park outside. i've drained the water trap like twice, no water in the tank and no frozen lines/valves. the way i had it before i cut a piece of wood to fit in the spare tire well and used a hole saw to cut a hole for the post in the middle and then just bolted everything to the board.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

martin13 said:


> setup has worked awesome in the winter and i park outside. i've drained the water trap like twice, no water in the tank and no frozen lines/valves. the way i had it before i cut a piece of wood to fit in the spare tire well and used a hole saw to cut a hole for the post in the middle and then just bolted everything to the board.


 Thats awesome news. You using the airline fluid in your tank or not?


----------



## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

MechEngg said:


> Thats awesome news. You using the airline fluid in your tank or not?


 nope, no antifreeze. the water froze in the watertrap though so it probably wouldnt be a bad idea


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

martin13 said:


> nope, no antifreeze. the water froze in the watertrap though so it probably wouldnt be a bad idea


 Okay i will remember that for the winter :thumbup:


----------



## DubberNix (Jan 29, 2002)

MechEngg said:


> Actually the max draw on DUAL 444's is 38A (will be maximum 35A due to the pressure range i am running it at). Therefore TRIPLE 444's will run me only 57A maximum and i can deal with that. In comparison i used to run 750W RMS for my two subs which had a fairly high current draw and my alternator did fine.
> 
> BTW i only have a 90A alternator so yes i am upgrading it to a 120A. This should be more than enough for my setup but thanks for trying to look at all the aspects of the build


 Good catch. 19A each is much more reasonable. I run dual 444s, plus another 80A of draw from two amps, so I was a little concerned about sitting at idle at night, playing with the switches with the music up and the lights on.:laugh:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

So i am about to order all my parts this weekend and just had a change of heart.....almost. I have three scenario's in my head and need help deciding what would be best you guys think.

*1*
Use 3 x 444c compressors like i was originally going to use. This would be the cheapest of the three options coming out at around $525. I wouldn't be able to run 4 due to space issues.

*2*
Upgrade to 3 x 480c compressors. I heard that these fill a bit faster and are quieter. They are only a 50% duty compressor at 200 psi so could only run for half the time.

*3*
Upgrade to dual OB2's. I like this option because of the fact that it is 100% duty at 200psi and they have cooling fans etc. These would be the most expensive at around $1000 if you include the need to run larger gauge wire to the back, i need to swap my alternator for a 120A one and upgrade my charging system to 0 gauge. I will be able to fit them under the false floor, and if i cant i can make room somehow, i don't doubt that fact.

Can anyone comment on the reliability of the OB2's and whether it is worth the upgrade? Remember i am running 8 gallons total


----------



## no vtec 4me (Aug 1, 2006)

MechEngg said:


> So i am about to order all my parts this weekend and just had a change of heart.....almost. I have three scenario's in my head and need help deciding what would be best you guys think.
> 
> *1*
> Use 3 x 444c compressors like i was originally going to use. This would be the cheapest of the three options coming out at around $525. I wouldn't be able to run 4 due to space issues.
> ...


THis really comes down to a money thing. Everyone ive ever talked to who switched from viair to AZ said they will never use a viair again. The ob2s are beautiful, and have the performance to back up the looks. If you have the money you wont regret going with them. Also, that would be the fastest filling set up correct?


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

no vtec 4me said:


> THis really comes down to a money thing. Everyone ive ever talked to who switched from viair to AZ said they will never use a viair again. The ob2s are beautiful, and have the performance to back up the looks. If you have the money you wont regret going with them. Also, that would be the fastest filling set up correct?


Yes it would be the fastest to fill. The fill times will be approx as follows for the different setups:

1 - 1:40 to fill from 165 to 200, 5:50 from 0-200
2 - 1:20 to fill from 165 to 200, 5:20 from 0-200
3 - 1:00 to fill from 165 to 200, 4:40 from 0-200


----------



## Capt. Obvious (Oct 23, 2006)

Personally, I'd go with dual 480s. I ran a single 480 on my 5gal tank on my old car and it topped it off pretty quickly and I worked the **** out of that thing (at shows or GTGs, it'd be running for 20+ minutes straight sometimes) and I never had a problem with it. They're quieter than the other options too.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Why only dual instead of 3 of em? I have the money and space to get three or 4 of them and i do not want a long fill time. The goal is as short as possible. Hopefully lots of padding/sound dampening will help to keep the noise down.

EDIT: Remember i am running 8 gallons of tanks in total, not 5. This is the reason for having 3 480's or two ob2's


----------



## Capt. Obvious (Oct 23, 2006)

I meant to say three 480s. :thumbup:

It will be way cheaper than the AZs and probably quicker too. The 480s are fairly quiet too (compared to say, the 380s).


----------



## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

MechEngg said:


> Why only dual instead of 3 of em? I have the money and space to get three or 4 of them and i do not want a long fill time. The goal is as short as possible. Hopefully lots of padding/sound dampening will help to keep the noise down.
> 
> EDIT: Remember i am running 8 gallons of tanks in total, not 5. This is the reason for having 3 480's or two ob2's


my 400 is so loud. i have an idea to use industrial vibration isolators to make a custom mount for a compressor (much like the exo mount but a bit more technical) 3 compressors is going to be loud no matter how you mount them lol


----------



## kilimats (Mar 5, 2006)

martin13 said:


> my 400 is so loud. i have an idea to use industrial vibration isolators to make a custom mount for a compressor (much like the exo mount but a bit more technical) 3 compressors is going to be loud no matter how you mount them lol


just to give you an idea, my compressor mounted on the exo mount is near inaudible outside the car, vibration are almost existent. But in the cabin, the compressor is still VERY loud from the air waves, I'll add some insulation in my trunk to help that :beer:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Capt. Obvious said:


> I meant to say three 480s. :thumbup:
> 
> It will be way cheaper than the AZs and probably quicker too. The 480s are fairly quiet too (compared to say, the 380s).


It won't be quicker than the 480's  I am 100% sure of that. It would only be $100 less for the 480's instead of the AZ's.



martin13 said:


> my 400 is so loud. i have an idea to use industrial vibration isolators to make a custom mount for a compressor (much like the exo mount but a bit more technical) 3 compressors is going to be loud no matter how you mount them lol


I am in no way looking to use a 400. They just don't have my ideal duty cycle and they are super loud. I have taken two mechanical vibrations classes so hopefully i am able to design something that works in opposing cycles so there is zero vibrations 



kilimats said:


> just to give you an idea, my compressor mounted on the exo mount is near inaudible outside the car, vibration are almost existent. But in the cabin, the compressor is still VERY loud from the air waves, I'll add some insulation in my trunk to help that :beer:


The difference is that you have a hatchback, i have a Jetta. I hope that with insulation and the seats/rear shelf providing decent insulation i am able to keep the cabin noise down, but if it must be loud at least it won't be for very long at all. What type of sound deadening are you thinking about?


----------



## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

MechEngg said:


> I have taken two mechanical vibrations classes so hopefully i am able to design something that works in opposing cycles so there is zero vibrations


in that case, you are 10 steps ahead of me. if my idea doesnt work ill be looking to you for some inspiration :laugh:


----------



## fasttt600 (Apr 12, 2007)

OB2's are super noisy, so keep that in mind.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

fasttt600 said:


> OB2's are super noisy, so keep that in mind.


Hmmmm that would be the only downfall of them. Perhaps 4 x 480's are the way to go. Same price and fill time as 2 ob2's but less noise. Thanks!


----------



## John Reid (Jun 30, 2010)

You may already realize this, but...

As far as keeping the noise floor down, mass loading material (like Dynamat) will do you no good, since it only addresses the issue of vibration.

To keep sound waves out of the cabin, you need to use a sound dampener composite. 

I used this for my audio SQ competition car ('09 Jetta MKV Sportwagen), and it worked a charm:

http://www.b-quiet.com/vcomp.html

Good luck!


----------



## kilimats (Mar 5, 2006)

MechEngg said:


> The difference is that you have a hatchback, i have a Jetta. I hope that with insulation and the seats/rear shelf providing decent insulation i am able to keep the cabin noise down, but if it must be loud at least it won't be for very long at all. What type of sound deadening are you thinking about?


Good point about the jetta VS golf, jetta would be a lot quicker in the end i think.

As far as material, I've been keeping some insulation carpet in my garage for years, no idea what brand it is, but I'll need to get more so why not the B-Quiet stuff mentioned by John above :thumbup:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

John Reid said:


> You may already realize this, but...
> 
> As far as keeping the noise floor down, mass loading material (like Dynamat) will do you no good, since it only addresses the issue of vibration.
> 
> ...


I wasn't sure what brand or type of sound deadening, just the fact that i will need it hahaha. 

That seems like a quite affordable option and if i wrap the spare wheel well with it and the false floor then it should keep the noise in. Cheers :beer:




I talked to Will and i am going with a dual AZ OB2 setup now  It will have a super fast fill time and plenty of air to play with.


----------



## John Reid (Jun 30, 2010)

Yeah, that should do it... I went ape **** with it on my car, but that's the way I am (floors, doors, etc.) 

Note that it doesn't come with an adhesive backing, but in your case, you can let gravity do the job for you, since you can cut it to size for the spare well, and let it lay down, and do the same for the false floor.

If you do need it to adhere to a vertical plane, you can use lines of hot glue, or get really hard core and use Weldwood landau adhesive:

http://www.duboisfabrics.com/product_p/glue dap.htm


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Anyways.....*I GOT ALL MY STUFF ORDERED TODAY, SHOULD BE SHIPPING EARLY NEXT WEEK* so i am taking stuff out of my trunk and going to do all the prep work starting this weekend. Stuff is already out of the trunk, going to do the main framing this weekend as well as the wall and floor. :thumbup:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

So I have decided to do a bit of prep work before the air goes in:

1 - Ball joints
2 - New LCA bushings (even though they were replaced last year)
3 - Modify my inner CV on the DS so that it doesn't bind 
4 - Trim my fender liners to accommodate tires when aired down (for now, they will be pulled in the summers)

In a separate note i found some sweet vibration isolators for mounting my compressors. They will be cleaned up a bit but they will work wonders. They are very heavy and fairly solid, providing good absorption properties. They are very tall so i might be mounting them directly to the bottom of the spare wheel well instead of on a piece of wood like originally planned, still need to think on that however.

Modified axle & vibration isolators:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Parts started arriving today!

Got:
- front struts
- 3 gallon air tank

This was enough to start with my custom vibration isolator mount and get my 3 gallon tank mounted. Pics say it better than i can explain:

















Been taking things out of my car one by one:








For wiring and lines:

































There will be a 3.5" raised floor so everything fits underneath as planned, the compressors will be cradled from this mounting bracket, everything else will be hidden elsewhere. :thumbup:


----------



## wagner17 (Oct 20, 2009)

this is going to be amazing when its done:thumbup:


----------



## woody89 (Aug 12, 2007)

are you building an air ride setup or a ****ing airplane?

overkill and retarded if you ask me. whatever rolls your dope.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

wagner17 said:


> this is going to be amazing when its done:thumbup:


:beer:



woody89 said:


> are you building an air ride setup or a ****ing airplane?
> 
> overkill and retarded if you ask me. whatever rolls your dope.


Excuse me? I would rather get rid of all unwanted vibrations and do it the best way i know how rather than wish i had done something different when i am done. With dual OB2 compressors there will be lots of vibrations and noise and as the title states, it is a technical build, so either suck it up or unsubscribe :thumbup:


----------



## Slamtastic (Jul 24, 2010)

woody89 said:


> are you building an air ride setup or a ****ing airplane?
> 
> overkill and retarded if you ask me. whatever rolls your dope.


Stfu.

I'm really excited to see this done. Really cool idea for the frame, and your plans are epic. :thumbup:

opcorn:


----------



## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

Watching this one. :thumbup: Looking to see where you mount up the e-level arms as I am a mk4 going e-level too.

I just bought material for my frame last night.


----------



## woody89 (Aug 12, 2007)

Don't post on a public forum? 

edit: I'll be nice.


----------



## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

Is that frame temporary?


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Afazz said:


> Is that frame temporary?


Nope frame is getting beefed up a smidge and is there for good.


----------



## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

Maybe the pics are deceiving, but is that 1/4 x 1 aluminum? You should do some bending stress calculations on the bars


----------



## Retromini (Nov 7, 2004)

woody89 said:


> overkill and retarded if you ask me. whatever rolls your dope.


Yah, bro. What are you doing planning things out and executing them well when you could be bolting your tank straight to some super-sick, bare 2x4 lumber? :laugh::laugh:

I love the execution thus far and look forward to seeing it progress.:thumbup::thumbup: Part of me always wishes I went the engineer route


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Afazz said:


> Maybe the pics are deceiving, but is that 1/4 x 1 aluminum? You should do some bending stress calculations on the bars


Not even, its 3/4 x 1/16 haha. It actually holds up very well, i can stand on it and it supports my weight so 40 lbs of compressors should be a piece of cake for it.



Retromini said:


> Yah, bro. What are you doing planning things out and executing them well when you could be bolting your tank straight to some super-sick, bare 2x4 lumber? :laugh::laugh:
> 
> I love the execution thus far and look forward to seeing it progress.:thumbup::thumbup: Part of me always wishes I went the engineer route


Dunno what i was thinking  



:laugh:


UPDATE FROM THIS AFTERNOON:

Compressor 1 arrived  second one should arrive tomorrow, at least i hope so. About 75% of the stuff still hasn't arrived so i am kinda choked because i leave to Mexico Saturday morning at 6:00am. Which is nice because it is snowing out today 


Again, pictures are soo much better than an explanation. If you have any other ideas that you think i should include just for fun let me know 









SNOW 
















Second compressor goes right beside the first, you can see the holes that are drilled for it.


----------



## v-dubIV (Jul 6, 2003)

waiting to see this finished, awesome work so far, so clean and well planned out this is going to be epic :thumbup:


----------



## hinshu (May 29, 2001)

v-dubIV said:


> waiting to see this finished, awesome work so far, so clean and well planned out this is going to be epic :thumbup:


x2 !!

the planning and execution is amazing

the delivery is going to be epic!

can't wait to see this finished.


----------



## woody89 (Aug 12, 2007)

Retromini said:


> Yah, bro. What are you doing planning things out and executing them well when you could be bolting your tank straight to some super-sick, bare 2x4 lumber? :laugh::laugh:
> 
> I love the execution thus far and look forward to seeing it progress.:thumbup::thumbup: Part of me always wishes I went the engineer route


Yeah bro dood brah, stupid frat boy ****ing ass. 


I have plenty of friends in the minitruck scene who drive their trucks day in day out, tanks exposed in the bed to all conditions. Worrying about **** to this degree is ****ing retarded. If you think I'm salty then whatever. Majority of people in the VW scene make air ride out to be something equivalent to building an engine from the bottom up. 

I'm sorry, no it's ****ing air ride. A compressor that fill a tank, with valves that put air to the bags. If you wanna get pissed and salty about it then quit being a ****** ass bitch.


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

Glad to see you're not using wood in this build. :thumbup: for another engineer. We just build **** different, no? I got an air project going on, too. There's _definitely_ something to be said about front-end planning over eye-balling and jumping right in. You WILL end up with a cleaner install. I've got to be honest, though, 3D modeling of the layout is unnecessary. It's cool for sure, and if that's why you're doing it then:thumbup: but i've had much better success with measuring critical dimensions when it's questionable, but for the most part just buy the parts I know I want and then hold them in the hatch to figure out where they go. 

I wish that you were planning to keep your spare tire, though. Will you be using run flat tires? I couldn't because I've got 205/40s on 8.5" x 18" wheels, but I had considered that as an option. It's just gonna be wicked ****ty when you run over a nail or whatever. Down to watch this build up though, and I'd like to discuss sound deadening with you in some more detail when we get to that point.


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

woody89 said:


> Majority of people in the VW scene make air ride out to be something equivalent to building an engine from the bottom up.


You have a point here. The rest of your senseless rambling was unnecessary and rude. Anyone who's worked in a mechanical assembly environment should have the skills to put the system together without breaking a sweat. There are much more eloquent ways to say exactly what you said without sounding like a douche. 

However, I think what the OP is trying to portray here is the importance of the _planning_ stages. From what I read, (s)he does not seem too concerned about the installation. Like I said above, installation is not difficult if you have basic wiring and plumbing experience.


----------



## najob08 (Apr 28, 2008)

In. Liking the attention to detail! :thumbup:


----------



## Retromini (Nov 7, 2004)

woody89 said:


> Yeah bro dood brah, stupid frat boy ****ing ass.


Clearly my satirical use of the words "bro" and "super-sick" has eluded you. :laugh:

I just find it silly to criticise someone for putting too much work or time into a hobby that they're passionate about. Who cares if his air setup is overkill or if you feel he spent too much time planning it? Sure, he could just toss a tank and a compressor into the trunk and it would work for years to come, but why's it a bad thing to spend a little time on it? He's probably having a blast doing it the way he wants and it's great to see a different take on an air management install.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

woody89 said:


> Yeah bro dood brah, stupid frat boy ****ing ass.
> 
> 
> I have plenty of friends in the minitruck scene who drive their trucks day in day out, tanks exposed in the bed to all conditions. Worrying about **** to this degree is ****ing retarded. If you think I'm salty then whatever. Majority of people in the VW scene make air ride out to be something equivalent to building an engine from the bottom up.
> ...


I am trying my best to keep this thread as strictly a build thread with no drama and hating on people for any reason so please try to respect that. I am doing this my way and i am definitely up for discussions as to why i am doing what i am doing but please try to do it in a constructive manner rather than name calling. :thumbup:



robs92jettv2.0 said:


> Glad to see you're not using wood in this build. :thumbup: for another engineer. We just build **** different, no? I got an air project going on, too. There's _definitely_ something to be said about front-end planning over eye-balling and jumping right in. You WILL end up with a cleaner install. I've got to be honest, though, 3D modeling of the layout is unnecessary. It's cool for sure, and if that's why you're doing it then:thumbup: but i've had much better success with measuring critical dimensions when it's questionable, but for the most part just buy the parts I know I want and then hold them in the hatch to figure out where they go.
> 
> I wish that you were planning to keep your spare tire, though. Will you be using run flat tires? I couldn't because I've got 205/40s on 8.5" x 18" wheels, but I had considered that as an option. It's just gonna be wicked ****ty when you run over a nail or whatever. Down to watch this build up though, and I'd like to discuss sound deadening with you in some more detail when we get to that point.


I will be framing my raised floor with 1x4 spruce so there will be some wood in this build haha. Yeah the modelling was unnecessary for sure, and i have had to make a few changes here and there for various reasons so its not entirely based off that model. The reason behind the model was the fact that i wanted to be able to count up fittings and piping and take a better look at the flow of the system.

My wheels are 18x9's with 215/40s and no i am not keeping a spare tire. I will throw one in the trunk for long road trips but for driving around the city i am fine without one, i have a premium AMA membership which includes up to 160kms of towing free a year 



robs92jettv2.0 said:


> You have a point here. The rest of your senseless rambling was unnecessary and rude. Anyone who's worked in a mechanical assembly environment should have the skills to put the system together without breaking a sweat. There are much more eloquent ways to say exactly what you said without sounding like a douche.
> 
> However, I think what the OP is trying to portray here is the importance of the _planning_ stages. From what I read, (s)he does not seem too concerned about the installation. Like I said above, installation is not difficult if you have basic wiring and plumbing experience.


Yeah i am not concerned at all with the installation, i have built many many things before and have worked extensively with electrical, plumbing, carpentry and quite a bit with metals so its going together really easily. 

I like the planning stage, its where i get to do all the critical thinking and make sure that everything works together exactly as i want functionality wise. Each to his own i guess 



Retromini said:


> Clearly my satirical use of the words "bro" and "super-sick" has eluded you. :laugh:
> 
> I just find it silly to criticise someone for putting too much work or time into a hobby that they're passionate about. Who cares if his air setup is overkill or if you feel he spent too much time planning it? Sure, he could just toss a tank and a compressor into the trunk and it would work for years to come, but why's it a bad thing to spend a little time on it? He's probably having a blast doing it the way he wants and it's great to see a different take on an air management install.


Thanks :thumbup:


----------



## kilimats (Mar 5, 2006)

neat idea and execution on the compressor / tank alu frame. :thumbup::thumbup:

is that single rear rubber mount enough to keep it balanced though?


----------



## VRtotheSix (May 12, 2008)

Doctors precision right here. :thumbup:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

A few people now have asked me about the vibration isolators. You can find them here:

http://www.karman.com/k69-compression.cfm

K6960-52 is the one i have i believe, but you can probably get away with almost any of them that are on that page as long as the load rating is enough. You don't want the load rating too high either or else it will act like a stiffer mount and transfer more vibrations, so go just enough to cover the weight of the system :thumbup:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

kilimats said:


> neat idea and execution on the compressor / tank alu frame. :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> is that single rear rubber mount enough to keep it balanced though?


Sorry i missed this post earlier. Yes i fully believe that it is enough. I only did 1 on that side so it wasn't super stiff in a box type frame. This gives it some rotational movement and the absorber works even better :thumbup: Also i have tried with all my might and placed various heave objects on the corners and i cannot get the corners of the frame down enough to hit the floor or walls so it wont hit at all.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

ANOTHER UPDATE FOR TODAY. I leave for Mexico in 5 hours so it will be the last one for a few weeks. Quite a bit of progress done with equipment placement.

Box built for 5 gallon tank:









Another plethora of goodies arrives:









AZ Tank pressure gauge (not needed but i thought it might be nice to have):









A lot of extremely flexible 0/1 gauge wire:









Stuff inside, built another box for the valve manifold and my sub amplifier. I will build a fuse panel in the side compartment where the stock amp would regularly go so its easy to change them out and is totally hidden. ALL the wiring is going to be in these two covered boxes and then a removable floor is going over the wheel well area that is open now for the compressors. The boxes are not bolted down yet because i need the side carpet in first and before i put that in i need to do all the wiring and line running. So they will stay unbolted for now

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## _Dirty_ (Sep 30, 2009)

MechEngg said:


>


Wow! three of those for 8 gallons, your going to fill up from 0-140 or which ever psi in 5 seconds flat :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: ( one for each comp)

looking forword to end results :beer:


----------



## Slo.Mo.Shun (Jan 13, 2010)

^2 not 3.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

_Dirty_ said:


> Wow! three of those for 8 gallons, your going to fill up from 0-140 or which ever psi in 5 seconds flat :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: ( one for each comp)
> 
> looking forword to end results :beer:


2 compressors.....but they are OB2's so its like 4 viair compressors.

But that does get me thinking, i have room for 2 more OB2's here and a 200A alternator so power wouldn't be an issue......


----------



## 16v_HOR (Jul 21, 2005)

Jeez, your trunk doesn't give away the fact that your a mechanical engineer or anything :laugh: Loving the build so far, now drop it on it's face already


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Another update here:

Since i got home from Mexico its been super busy at work so it isn't dropped yet, but will be this weekend. 

Left to do to get it working:
- Finish routing the 0 gauge through the firewall and to the battery
- Grounds for everything
- Install the bags and run the airlines back to the manifold
- Finish wiring the height sensors

To get it completely finished i still have to build the floors and false wall and get it carpeted and back together nicely. And also second skin damplifier. So it will take a few weekends to get perfect still.

Update Pics:
This is my box for all my wiring and my small sub amplifier. 0/1 + 4 + 4 gauge power in, 3 x 4ga + 1 x 2ga (or another 1 x 4ga) out, each fused. Nice little power block for the trunk.

















1/2" from compressors to first tank, 3/8" the rest of the system:









Water trap mounted below the manifold, mounted as such for easy removal for draining it :thumbup:









Manifold & ECU location









Compressor relays, pressure sensors for gauge and ECU, AUX air out









Overall Pic i guess:









Boost and Voltmeter moved from on top of the steering column to here

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










New A-pillar Air-Zenith Tank Pressure gauge - Stays black and not noticeable until its turned on, will have a separate on/off switch so i can turn it off if i dont want to see it

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










Excessive Amperage 200A alternator with custom aluminum pulley - Also have to upgrade engine bay to 0 gauge









This into here????? I think so


----------



## fasttt600 (Apr 12, 2007)

great updates. attention to detail:thumbup::thumbup: 

You should be looking to get credit from some engineering class:laugh:


----------



## eurotrsh (Dec 25, 2004)

Very cool, a little overkill if you ask me. 

Trust me, you won't be disappointed in the Air Zenith compressor, I ran one on my 5 gal tank with a fill time of about 50-60 seconds. I would really try and use the leader liners and not PTC fittings/line due to heat. I have seen the plastic PTC fittings melt because of that.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

fasttt600 said:


> great updates. attention to detail:thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> You should be looking to get credit from some engineering class:laugh:


I totally would if I was still in school, but I graduated a while ago and don't see myself going back anytime soon for anything haha


----------



## tomespo (Jul 21, 2008)

looking good, where did you get that Alt?


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

tomespo said:


> looking good, where did you get that Alt?


If you take a look at the pic and read the caption above you can see its from Excessive Amperage, and it gives a phone number too incase you are looking for one  it only cost $385 so it was a good deal


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

eurotrsh said:


> Very cool, a little overkill if you ask me.
> 
> Trust me, you won't be disappointed in the Air Zenith compressor, I ran one on my 5 gal tank with a fill time of about 50-60 seconds. I would really try and use the leader liners and not PTC fittings/line due to heat. I have seen the plastic PTC fittings melt because of that.


I couldn't find an all metal PTC elbow so i had to use what was there, i plan to change it out for an all metal one because thats what i have for the rest of the system. How hot does it usually get??


----------



## eurotrsh (Dec 25, 2004)

Hot enough to leave a mark.

Numatics and Alkon make all metal PTCs


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

eurotrsh said:


> Hot enough to leave a mark.
> 
> Numatics and Alkon make all metal PTCs


Yeah thats what all my other fittings are, i was just short 1 and went to my local store and they only had this plastic one. Is it safe to use for a week or should i change it now?


----------



## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

MechEngg said:


> Yeah thats what all my other fittings are, i was just short 1 and went to my local store and they only had this plastic one. Is it safe to use for a week or should i change it now?


i think the fittings will be absolutely fine, i would be more worried about the line melting. the air coming out of the compressors is quite hot


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Well the line is good up til 95C (203F) so i don't think it should be an issue, i thought the lines only got up to about 60 or 70 degrees. Unless someone can correct me?? 

http://greenlinehose.com/_pdf/hose/8.Auto_p97-110.pdf


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

And i also have a bunch of copper at home too, i was planning on doing copper hardlines after i got everything actually working but i might throw them in now just to be safe...


----------



## zrace07 (Jul 26, 2007)

Three words.

Pure.
****ing.
Sickness.

:thumbup: :beer:


----------



## downlowcustomz (Oct 9, 2009)

it will def get hot enough to melt air line and fittings if they are on for long periods of time.... its the reason compressor companys use stainless leader lines..... they cost alot more then regualr fittings and if were not needed they wouldnt use them. i have had friends just use regular line off the compressors when they broke viair leader lines, but over time have always failed....


----------



## arethirdytwo (Apr 4, 2007)

Looks good but will it resonate through the tank with everything mounted on those three isolators? The 200A alternator is a nice touch though, I like it.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

zrace07 said:


> Three words.
> 
> Pure.
> ****ing.
> ...


Thank ya



downlowcustomz said:


> it will def get hot enough to melt air line and fittings if they are on for long periods of time.... its the reason compressor companys use stainless leader lines..... they cost alot more then regualr fittings and if were not needed they wouldnt use them. i have had friends just use regular line off the compressors when they broke viair leader lines, but over time have always failed....


So i have run my compressors a lot and they seem to dissapate heat extremely well. And as for them being on for a long time, to go from 115-150psi it takes around 40 seconds, so not even enough time for the compressors to start to get hot 

Either way i am going to be changing out the 1/2" portion into copper hardlines so i don't think there is too much to worry about :thumbup:



arethirdytwo said:


> Looks good but will it resonate through the tank with everything mounted on those three isolators? The 200A alternator is a nice touch though, I like it.


Thanks for the thought! Fortunately it doesn't resonate too badly through the tank so its not too bad, i am just going to be damplifying the frame as well and this should help to get rid of almost all the noise being made by the compressors right now.


UPDATE:
So with everything being wired and plumbed it just seemed right to work through the nights until the morning to get the bags installed. Started at noon saturday and worked (half asleep and drunk) until 6am on sunday morning, then up again at 8 to finish running the front air lines and tidy up. Then doing a timing belt on my buddies car just after noon. So busy f*u*cking weekend to say the least.

STILL TO DO:
- Install 200A alternator
- Upgrade engine wiring to 0-gauge (btw anyone have lengths for the wires and exactly where they run so i can buy the materials beforehand? Also any special end connectors or just bolt ups?)
- Damplifier should be in next week by wednesday or so
- Build false wall/floors and carpet them
- Hardlines in certain spots

BUT IT WORKS

FRONT: 21 7/8" on stock tires
REAR: 22 7/8" on stock tires


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

Not too shabby, eh? :thumbup:


----------



## Slo.Mo.Shun (Jan 13, 2010)

Looking good.

Did you just run ptc after the check valves ?


----------



## phil123 (Aug 13, 2009)

Question for you, i have read about 90% of the thread and saw that you were using flex/plastic hose.

Any reason for running this over hardlines?

Thanks.


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Slo.Mo.Shun said:


> Looking good.
> 
> Did you just run ptc after the check valves ?


Yup all PTC connections after the check valves. I went from JIC compressor fittings to PTC.



phil123 said:


> Question for you, i have read about 90% of the thread and saw that you were using flex/plastic hose.
> 
> Any reason for running this over hardlines?
> 
> Thanks.


The only reason i have ran all flex hose instead of hardlines is the timeline to get it working. The plan is to upgrade the 1/2" hose from the compressors to the tank to copper hardlines. Then the above floor piping will all be hardlines, but flex hose is NEEDED for between the two tanks due to the fact that one is on vibration isolationers and one is attached to the frame.



erevlydeux said:


> I'd probably get about 18ft. You want some play room to route/tuck the wires. I'd run them through one of the firewall grommets along the main wiring "bunch" that goes to the battery, and as far as through the car, the channel that runs along the floor/door jambs. Don't forget a new fuse (and possibly holder) that is properly sized for the wire, as well as appropriately sized fuses for any reduction in gauge. i.e. both of those compressors should be fused on the switched power line in addition to the main power feed.


Well thanks for the response. I already ran the 0 gauge to the back however haha, i meant upgrading the big three in the engine bay 
I ran a 250A fuse then right to the back to a power distribution block with 4 different fuses, two going to the compressors and two for amps for the stereo.

Any info on the wire length for the big three??


----------



## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

MechEngg said:


>


Thank you for posting this shot ot the e-level arms mounting points. This really helps me. Any shots of the front mounting spots for these?

Build looks great :thumbup:


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

dOWa242 said:


> Thank you for posting this shot ot the e-level arms mounting points. This really helps me. Any shots of the front mounting spots for these?
> 
> Build looks great :thumbup:


There are a *lot* of pictures on AccuAir's website (or a link from their website?) of how people have mounted these on various cars. IIRC it was a picture thread on here or Air Society dedicated to that purpose. I'll try and dig it up.


EDIT***: I was close...

http://www.stanceworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15680

Link on AccuAir's site to stance works. :thumbup:


----------



## v-dubIV (Jul 6, 2003)

MechEngg said:


> Thank ya


just curious if the way you have the compressors hooked up actually allows them to fill any faster than just having say 1 compressor hooked up, i've never seen any hooked up "in-line" like that, it would seem like they would be "fighting" each other to fill the tank(s), or like the one compressor is doing the work and the other one is just backing it up, where as people who run tanks with mulitple ports would usually run one compressor into each end of the tank so that they are filling it independently.

can you please help me to understand this, maybe i'm just looking at it all wrong


----------



## christanand (Aug 10, 2006)

or check out the build up thread that killimats has...has plenty of pics of mounting points for his mk4 e-level setup and some tips/tricks for a problem he encountered...

OP been following this since the start and it hasnt let me down yet, good stuff :thumbup:


----------



## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

v-dubIV said:


> just curious if the way you have the compressors hooked up actually allows them to fill any faster than just having say 1 compressor hooked up, i've never seen any hooked up "in-line" like that, it would seem like they would be "fighting" each other to fill the tank(s), or like the one compressor is doing the work and the other one is just backing it up, where as people who run tanks with mulitple ports would usually run one compressor into each end of the tank so that they are filling it independently.
> 
> can you please help me to understand this, maybe i'm just looking at it all wrong


each comp has a check valve right off of it so they would not be fighting each other. its no different than hooking them up to a separate port on the tank.


----------



## v-dubIV (Jul 6, 2003)

martin13 said:


> each comp has a check valve right off of it so they would not be fighting each other. its no different than hooking them up to a separate port on the tank.


not to clutter up the build thread, but i didn't mean backfeeding or anything like that, i just don't see how 2 compressor's pussing the same volume sharing a line could be "practical"? 

just out of curiousity i wonder what fill rate times would be with
A: Both compressor's hooked up as is
B: only one compressor hooked up
C: compreessor's hooked up to separete ports filling independently of each other and not sharing a common fill line

I'm positive it works, and the OP seems to be like a mechanical genius, but this just puzzle's me

agian sorry to clutter up your fabulous build thread! :thumbup:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

v-dubIV said:


> just curious if the way you have the compressors hooked up actually allows them to fill any faster than just having say 1 compressor hooked up, i've never seen any hooked up "in-line" like that, it would seem like they would be "fighting" each other to fill the tank(s), or like the one compressor is doing the work and the other one is just backing it up, where as people who run tanks with mulitple ports would usually run one compressor into each end of the tank so that they are filling it independently.
> 
> can you please help me to understand this, maybe i'm just looking at it all wrong


Hey good question. Some people just have different ways of looking at it. You are right and you are wrong at the same time. If the pressures we were running came close to filling the tank at the mach number 1 one of the compressors would be fighting the other compressor. But since we are using such big lines (AKA small velocity) AND due to the fact that we are using a compressible fluid instead of an incompressable fluid we are able to link the lines together as such with almost negligible effects on the fill rate.

If we were using water as an example (an incompressible fluid) we would have to go from our 1/2" leader lines to a common 3/4" header to compensate for the extra fluid in the lines to achieve the same velocity without much negative effects on flow rate (which is newtons 2nd law i believe).



christanand said:


> or check out the build up thread that killimats has...has plenty of pics of mounting points for his mk4 e-level setup and some tips/tricks for a problem he encountered...
> 
> OP been following this since the start and it hasnt let me down yet, good stuff :thumbup:


Cheers :beer:



martin13 said:


> each comp has a check valve right off of it so they would not be fighting each other. its no different than hooking them up to a separate port on the tank.


Check valve doesn't have anything to do with it but you are correct, it should have negligible effect on the fill times.



v-dubIV said:


> not to clutter up the build thread, but i didn't mean backfeeding or anything like that, i just don't see how 2 compressor's pussing the same volume sharing a line could be "practical"?
> 
> just out of curiousity i wonder what fill rate times would be with
> A: Both compressor's hooked up as is
> ...


To answer your questions with approx %'s. We will use 100% as the fill time for a single OB2 compressor
A - ~55%
B - 100%
C - ~55%

No worries, this thread is for discussion about the more technical aspects of the thread and why i am doing what i am doing. 

To put things into perspective for you, we are using a 0.5" line, the line will get choked if we use a line that is about 0.15" so we are good for a while 

How i got that:
mach number 1 = choking condition
a = sqrt(GRT)
G = 1.4 (for air)
R = 287
T = 298K (around 25 degrees celsuis)
therefore the speed at choking condition is 346 m/s

We take the CFM output of our compressors to be 8.5 (which 2 of the new OB2's are) and convert that into m3/s which gets us 0.004 m3/s

so to get the area in which it chokes we take the 0.004m3/s divided by the 346m/s and we get 0.00001155m2 or 0.017in2

This is equal to a diameter of 0.15" or 1/8" so we should be fine with a 1/2" line :thumbup:


----------



## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

stop it, you are too smart for 99% of this forum :laugh:


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

MechEngg said:


> To put things into perspective for you, we are using a 0.5" line, the line will get choked if we use a line that is about 0.15" so we are good for a while
> 
> How i got that:
> mach number 1 = choking condition
> ...


Couldn't you also determine appropriate pipe I.D. by considering pumping head loss over Wp (work of the pump(s))? Obviously you want the largest pipe possible (except that you'd have to fill that volume to your cut-off pressure as well) to minimize the effects of head loss but it gets to a point where you must abide the law of diminishing returns...

Or you just do like everyone else and use what's available because other engineers have already determined what works and does not.


----------



## v-dubIV (Jul 6, 2003)

MechEngg said:


> To answer your questions with approx %'s. We will use 100% as the fill time for a single OB2 compressor
> A - ~55%
> B - 100%
> C - ~55%


ok so it looks like what you're saying is that the fill rate is going to be roughly 1/2 the amount of time with the 2 compressor's either hooked up the way you have it or the way i'm used to seeing it with them running separate lines to the tank versus having just one hooked up, i guess looking at it, it's just one of those brain teaser's, though i didn't take into account that you are running a larger diameter line, and that the pumps may be rated to run a smaller line, therefore there's enough room to accomadate the increased flow. 

Thanks for clearing this up for me


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

At FFH today

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## guesswho (May 9, 2009)

this thread brings my love back to the air ride forum... gloriously "techy". good show sir! :thumbup:


----------



## Aloha-boy (Mar 9, 2001)

v-dubIV said:


> ok so it looks like what you're saying is that the fill rate is going to be roughly 1/2 the amount of time with the 2 compressor's either hooked up the way you have it or the way i'm used to seeing it with them running separate lines to the tank versus having just one hooked up, i guess looking at it, it's just one of those brain teaser's, though i didn't take into account that you are running a larger diameter line, and that the pumps may be rated to run a smaller line, therefore there's enough room to accomadate the increased flow.
> 
> Thanks for clearing this up for me


Make pretend the tank is a large tube.


----------



## 01 (Sep 9, 2009)

any updates?


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

01 said:


> any updates?


Hey, 

Some very bad news unfortunately
Car got broken into on a tuesday









Thursday i jumped a curb because of gravel and going a bit too fast and am now parting out the car 

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## Slo.Mo.Shun (Jan 13, 2010)

My condolences.


----------



## phil123 (Aug 13, 2009)




----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

phil123 said:


>


Yeah its really hard to see my baby go. Especially after all the hard work. 



Slo.Mo.Shun said:


> My condolences.


Much appreciated. First pics i have actually posted of the accident 



BUT i will be back in a few months with another car 

I want a very specific car, so if anyone sees one out there let me know.

2004.5 GLI
Platinum Grey
1.8t
6 speed
mint interior required
exterior may be dinged up a bit, body work going to happen as well
must have stock RC's for my winter wheels 

Plans for it:
- Put my f***ing airride back in and make me happy once again
- Miro 111's, 9.5 all around. Go big or go home
- Redo my retro's, black around the projectors, chrome on the front rim
- shave trunk (i miss my shaved trunk already)
- shave all rubstrips
- leave in oem front grille 

Thats about it for now, plus i have almost all the parts already so it will be cheap once i buy the GLi


----------



## phil123 (Aug 13, 2009)

At least you have a plan :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## 16v_HOR (Jul 21, 2005)

MechEngg said:


> BUT i will be back in a few months with another car
> 
> I want a very specific car, so if anyone sees one out there let me know.
> 
> ...


I approve this message opcorn: Sorry about your car.


----------



## guesswho (May 9, 2009)

Wow, I was really enjoying this build... Sorry to hear. Good luck with the next build dude!


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

Is it just going to be a continuation of this thread..?


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

phil123 said:


> At least you have a plan :thumbup: :thumbup:


Yup i always have a plan :laugh:



16v_HOR said:


> I approve this message opcorn: Sorry about your car.


Well i am glad that the almighty 16v_HOR approved this opcorn:





guesswho said:


> Wow, I was really enjoying this build... Sorry to hear. Good luck with the next build dude!


I will definitely be posting a more thorough thread on the GLi build, but it may take a while to acquire exactly the car i want so i will update this thread with the new one when i do



Rob Cote said:


> Is it just going to be a continuation of this thread..?


Nope gonna do a seperate thread, link them together for reference and post more pictures. Also have another idea for a cage to hold more AZ's. Plus my 200A alt can handle at least 4 of them so it should work


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

Jesus man, how often do you adjust your height?


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Rob Cote said:


> Jesus man, how often do you adjust your height?


Its not purely because i adjust the height a lot, its more for the building it and seeing how it will work and function. I enjoy getting a kick out of building stuff and i figured $600 to add another 2 compressors isn't a bad idea  Plus it will kick down my fill times from 50 seconds to 30 seconds for 8 gallons 

But to answer your question quite literally i drive super low and in calgary lets just say that there are some "bumps" in the road so i am usually switching from 1 to 3 to 1 every 4-5 minutes. The tanks right now give me about 4 lifts so its not too bad. But seriously i also just do it for the fun of it too :thumbup:


----------



## 16v_HOR (Jul 21, 2005)

MechEngg said:


> Well i am glad that the almighty 16v_HOR approved this opcorn:


eace: :heart:



MechEngg said:


> I enjoy getting a kick out of building stuff
> 
> seriously i also just do it for the fun of it too :thumbup:


These are the 2 most important parts of building any car or project imo, both of which were very evident in your thread. I'll be keeping an impatient eye peeled for your next project :thumbup:


----------



## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

MechEngg said:


> Its not purely because i adjust the height a lot, its more for the building it and seeing how it will work and function. I enjoy getting a kick out of building stuff and i figured $600 to add another 2 compressors isn't a bad idea  Plus it will kick down my fill times from 50 seconds to 30 seconds for 8 gallons
> 
> But to answer your question quite literally i drive super low and in calgary lets just say that there are some "bumps" in the road so i am usually switching from 1 to 3 to 1 every 4-5 minutes. The tanks right now give me about 4 lifts so its not too bad. But seriously i also just do it for the fun of it too :thumbup:


That's cool man. Power to you! It's a pretty sweet build. That's terrible news about the car though. I'm excited to see the next one. I feel like builds always come out better when the builder knows exactly what the finished product is going to be before buying the car and getting started. :thumbup:


----------



## tylerfisher (Apr 12, 2011)

trunk set up was amazing man! :beer:


----------



## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks for the comment. it has been like 6 months since i have looked at this even, i miss the old jetta. But as for the new car, i got what i wanted 



MechEngg said:


> I want a very specific car, so if anyone sees one out there let me know.
> 
> 2004.5 GLI
> Platinum Grey
> ...


So keep an eye out for my new thread coming in march or april :wave:


----------

