# mk3 on E85?



## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

what would it take to convert to E85? I am currently running C2's 42# setup.


----------



## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

There may be something in the works with Jeff Atwood but the last E85 MK3 I saw was only doing ~480whp at 25psi. With standalone you may be able to get more, but you would need a larger turbo, more air, etc.


----------



## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

how much power are you looking for? is this a race car? or you drive it every day?


----------



## Raddoboy (Sep 18, 2002)

1098lover said:


> what would it take to convert to E85? I am currently running C2's 42# setup.


A good tune.


----------



## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

its a daily car with a 12v vr6t with a holset hx-35 on 15psi and I see that I can get E-85 by my work and thought it would be fun to run. and maybe give a few extra pony's.


----------



## Raddoboy (Sep 18, 2002)

1098lover said:


> its a daily car with a 12v vr6t with a holset hx-35 on 15psi and I see that I can get E-85 by my work and thought it would be fun to run. and maybe give a few extra pony's.


If its daily dude I wouldnt. To get the full benefit of e85 or any higher octane fuel youd need a good tune to utilize it. With that being said, E85 is more expensive and it burns faster. More to fill your tank for a car you drive to work everyday.


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

You will need bigger injectors and standalone. Talk to [email protected] He will get you set up. If you get tuned correctly you will still see good gas mileage and even more power.


----------



## Raddoboy (Sep 18, 2002)

Exactly, tuned correctly. Not to mention not every gas station has it......


----------



## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

you will brake that o2a tranny before you max out the 42 LBS injectors, if itis an every day car, stay on pump gas, just fill it up and go race, now if you are looking for high HP than E85 is the best thing compared to race fuel. save your $$$ and keep what you have.


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

Stock tranny's last long enough and take enough of a beating when driven right. And when using the correct tire.


----------



## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

Save the money and the hassle of limiting the places you can fuel up and buy water/meth


----------



## deathhare. (Apr 1, 2008)

Raddoboy said:


> E85 is more expensive


Here its the cheapest thing at the station. Even cheaper than regular 87 crap.


----------



## magner (Jul 26, 2009)

c2 42lb tune what stage would you recomend water/meth and where do you mount the nozzle and what size? and when to start injecting it ...im aware it raises octane and safer to prevent det do i only need it in summer with high boost or if the ecu is pulling timing can you explain your experience with using water/meth please and what config you find works the best


----------



## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

charlie hayes said:


> Stock tranny's last long enough and take enough of a beating when driven right. And when using the correct tire.



I was wondering how much power do you make? and how long your o2a tranny last? because I can tell you this, even knowing people had pushed 500-600 WHP on o2a tranny with no torque, it still won't last long before you clean all the tooth on 3rd or 4th gear. on a vr6 motor and all the torque it puts out the limit will be around 450 WHP before you start braking gears. unless you know something that we don't know.


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

zwogti said:


> I was wondering how much power do you make? and how long your o2a tranny last? because I can tell you this, even knowing people had pushed 500-600 WHP on o2a tranny with no torque, it still won't last long before you clean all the tooth on 3rd or 4th gear. on a vr6 motor and all the torque it puts out the limit will be around 450 WHP before you start braking gears. unless you know something that we don't know.


I plan on making power in the high 500's low 600's on moderate boost. I will drive the car on the street with lower boost and street tires. I will drive the car on the track with a bias ply radial or something of that nature. Stock axles to keep that a weak link. People run high power with stock trannys. Ill list a few off the top of my head.

Miamivr6t
Kubota Powered
Broke_rado
The dubsquared 208mph gti also ran a [email protected] by just changing the tires. They ran APTuning gearsets and went through them to fast. 
1slowSLC has the setup to hit big power and the only thing he did was add a pinion girdle

Stock trannys arent that expensive to rebuild and if it becomes a problem Ill buy a second one and just keep rebuilding it and swapping them out. Maybe do one with a 5th gear cuff and see if that helps. Im sure there are a lot more people to that list but those are the few I know off the top of my head.


----------



## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

i love e85, especially if you have easy access
it burns slower if it's lean & faster if it's rich so it turns it's own timing up lol

anyway, i'd go for it, i'd adjust my fuel pressure when you can't get it & motronic should do the rest

i imagine every post here is by someone who has tried it


----------



## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

charlie hayes said:


> I plan on making power in the high 500's low 600's on moderate boost. I will drive the car on the street with lower boost and street tires. I will drive the car on the track with a bias ply radial or something of that nature. Stock axles to keep that a weak link. People run high power with stock trannys. Ill list a few off the top of my head.
> 
> Miamivr6t
> Kubota Powered
> ...


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

KubotaPowered said:


> There may be something in the works with Jeff Atwood but the last E85 MK3 I saw was only doing ~480whp at 25psi. With standalone you may be able to get more, but you would need a larger turbo, more air, etc.


I helped out tuning an mk3 12v running E85.
Started with my 42# tune.
Added Siemens 630s
Tweaked software some.

Made ~485whp @ 20psi. 1.06 GT35R


-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## magner (Jul 26, 2009)

Jefnes3 said:


> Made ~485whp @ 20psi. 1.06 GT35R
> 
> 
> -Jeffrey Atwood


:thumbup: how much more advance did you give it


----------



## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

What about changes to fuel lines, seals, etc.?


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

now lets say you have a c2 630cc/promaf fuel kit, but have 600whp e85 aspirations... what does it take?


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

xpalendocious said:


> now lets say you have a c2 630cc/promaf fuel kit, but have 600whp e85 aspirations... what does it take?


The thing that would be holding you back on power would be the injectors. You use 30% more fuel with e85 over regular gas. If you see above Jeff tuned 630s at 20psi to 485hp.


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

question was more aimed at jeff. can you simply add 30% larger injectors or turn up the fuel pressure 30% higher? but then you wouldnt be seeing the gains of the higher octane rating & being able to run more ignition timing


----------



## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

30% larger injectors, if it goes lean it pulls it's own timing :laugh:

anyway, fuel volume is square root of pressure so 1.3 x 1.3 = ~ 1.7 times more pressure, not 1.3, just guessing


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

xpalendocious said:


> question was more aimed at jeff. can you simply add 30% larger injectors or turn up the fuel pressure 30% higher? but then you wouldnt be seeing the gains of the higher octane rating & being able to run more ignition timing












You would need the injector. This is a pretty good table, yes its for a 4cylinder and while using the ID injectors you can do this on other injectors Im sure though.....

Jeff took a 42lb tune and ran 60lb injectors. So 42x.30=54.6 60x.30=78 so the least I would imagine would be a 80lb or 84lb injector.

If this is wrong then let me know? Im trying to figure all this out anyway so I would like some insight.


----------



## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Power from E85 comes from the ability to run more timing(and you need to run more timing because of the slow burn). If you cannot adjust it properly then you will never realize the power potential of the fuel.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

xpalendocious said:


> now lets say you have a c2 630cc/promaf fuel kit, but have 600whp e85 aspirations... what does it take?


Start with ~1000cc inj. to support same power as gas with 630's

Tweak ignition a bit.

Richen full power a bit.

Less than 30psi boost on the right hardware.

-Jeff


----------



## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

Jefnes3 said:


> Start with ~1000cc inj. to support same power as gas with 630's
> 
> Tweak ignition a bit.
> 
> ...


I wasn't to far off with my elementary level calculations. Im running 1000s Kevin and have a 600hp goal in the end or what ever it takes to run 10s. I think I have it covered with my fuel setup. Can't wait to see what you do with your setup.


----------



## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

Fast VW said:


> What about changes to fuel lines, seals, etc.?


----------



## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

Fast VW said:


> What about changes to fuel lines, seals, etc.?


none http://e85forum.com/about103-0-asc-15.html


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

Fast VW said:


>


i have been on e85 for well over a year now, and all my lines are the same as before. regulator is an aeromotive that i have owned for 10 years, 2 044 pumps. never seen any signs of failures with anything. oh yeah stock pump in the tank.


----------



## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

> If its daily dude I wouldnt. To get the full benefit of e85 or any higher octane fuel youd need a good tune to utilize it. With that being said, E85 is more expensive and it burns faster. More to fill your tank for a car you drive to work everyday.


 not sure where you buy e85. here its 2.40 a gal and premium is over 3 

CORRECTED add 50% more fuel. so alot use dual inline fuel pumps and bigger injectors. but all lines and stock fuel system can handle it. i feed my dual pumps with the stock pump as well.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

The math/chemisrty says add ~50% more fuel. 
so: 
440's : add 220 you get 660 (close enough to 630) 
630's : add 315 you get 945 (close enough to 1000) 

The real world: pretty close to 50%. 

Typically I add 6 to 12 deg ignition. 
Roughly speaking I run best N/A timing curve with E85 at 20-25psi boost. 

E85 forces the tuner to actually tune ignition correctly since you (typically) never see detonation. 

X: try running 2200cc inj on an R32.  
The only question now is: how much boost will the motor take? 

-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

Jefnes3 said:


> Roughly speaking I run best N/A timing curve with E85 at 20-25psi boost.
> 
> E85 forces the tuner to actually tune ignition correctly since you (typically) never see detonation.


 
if you over 25 psi :laugh:

thx jeff


----------

