# Need help determining correct battery specification



## zwmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

Hi. 

I'm reading and learning this forum for long time now. 

I thank you all for posting, especially PanEuropean. 

This time it look's like I will have to replace my batteries. 
Backup battery feels ok but primary not so good in this cold weather we have in Europe. 
It died few times during past week after parking for half a day. 
The bat’s look like they are the factory originals, but could be replaced before. 
The driver side type is AGM and the passenger side if FLA. 
Is this normal? 
*Can I replace FLA for AGM?* 
driver side is: 
12V 92Ah AGM 
850A EN/SAE 520A DIN 
000 915 105 CE 

and passenger side is: 
12V 95Ah 
760A EN/SAE 450A DIN 
000 915 105 AH 

Phaeton is 2003 V10 TDI 4seater. 
WVWZZZ3DZ480068xx 

Following are some VAG-COM log’s that could matter for power consumption problem. 
I also have all four doors handle switches defective and back seat reading lamp switches short to ground. 
Newer vag-com log will be added soon. 
I will also post a procedure for repairing switches if I get permission for posting attachments. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl 
Part No: 3D0 959 760 B 
Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1401 
Coding: 0000004 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000 

1 Fault Found: 
00003 - Control Module 
014 – Defective 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl 
Part No: 3D0 919 887 B 
Component: NAVIGATION 0187 
Coding: 0400000 
Shop #: WSC 49913 141 66767 

No fault code found. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl 
Part No: 3D0 915 181 C 
Component: Batteriemanagement 2700 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000 

No fault code found. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl 
Part No: 3D0 035 007 L 
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0253 
Coding: 0500535 
Shop #: WSC 49913 141 66767 

No fault code found. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl 
Part No: 3D0 920 881 H 
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0321 
Coding: 0005111 
Shop #: WSC 49913 141 66767 

No fault code found. 

thnx, zw


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

ZW: 

We don't have the privelege of the V10 Diesel in North America. However, it is common to have an AGM battery on the driver's side of trunk(for convenience functions) and a standard lead acid battery(for starting) on the passenger side of the trunk. AGM batteries have many advantages that make them desirable for supporting the convenience applications in Phaetons and the fact that it is housed with much electronics. I wouldn't replace it without anything other than an AGM type. The only other suggestion I might make is to make sure your replacement batteries are the same specification as the originals or better. All Phaetons are electrical power hogs but your rather large diesel is surely worse than the gassers imported into North America. 

Maybe others have some thoughts on your scan but I saw nothing that screamed low voltage. 

Jim X


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

zwmaster said:


> The bat’s look like they are the factory originals, but could be replaced before.
> The driver side type is AGM and the passenger side if FLA. Is this normal?
> *Can I replace FLA for AGM?*


 *No, no, no, don't do that!!!!!* 

The batteries are one of the most critical components on the Phaeton. As you have probably discovered, the Phaeton consumes more electricity than the CERN particle accelerator buried underneath Geneva. The last thing you want to do is make any compromises of any kind when replacing the batteries, most especially not with the left-hand side battery. Put cheap diesel fuel in it if you want, put cheap oil in it if you want, skip your maintenance inspections if you have to, but don't ever compromise on battery replacements! We have all learned this "the hard way" here in the forum. 

Also, be aware that the battery controller (controller 71) expects to find the exact original factory specification batteries on both the left and right sides, so, if you put anything different in your car, this controller may not be able to properly monitor and charge them. 

Go to the VW dealer, give them the VIN of your car, and purchase *exact specification* replacements for your left and right batteries. They will not be cheap, but it will be a heck of a lot less expensive than putting a sub-standard battery in the car and then suffering all of the pain and sorrow that comes with doing that. 

--------------------------- 

There is a post somewhere here in the forum - I am pretty sure it is listed in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) - explaining how to fix the problem with the rear seat reading light. I had that same problem with my car, it is sort of a 'known issue' with early production (2003 - 2004) cars. It does not affect all of them, but I think that the supplier of the rear seat roof light was not paying close enough attention to quality control when they made the first production run of these lights. Anyway, it is easy to fix, so no big problems there. 

Concerning the push-buttons on the door handles that control locking the car up when you have keyless access - wow, if you find a solution to that problem that does not involve purchasing, painting, and installing new door handles, you will be a hero to everyone here in the forum. If you would like pictures posted, please send them directly to me, I will host them for you and then send you links that you can embed in a post that you make. This will cause the picture to appear. Use this email address for sending the pictures: PanEuropean (at) hotmail (dot) com. Replace the (at) and the (dot) with the usual @ and . symbols. 

Best regards, and again, welcome to our forum community. 

Michael 

*This is what your left battery should look like - accept no substitutes*


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## zwmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

thnx Michael. 
I think exactly the way you do. 
I don't want to touch left side battery. 
I want to replace passanger side (right side) battery for AGM type. 
I would like to have them both AGM type as AGMs are better in many aspects. 
Is there any technical reason for right side to be Flooded Lead Acid type? 
Acceptable DOD possibly?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

ZW (Uh, what is your first name - we usually work on a first name basis here...) 

Although I appreciate and fully respect your thinking - the idea that putting an AGM battery on the right side might be an 'improvement' over whatever is there now - I still strongly recommend that you do not do that. 

The key issue is that the car has one battery controller (controller 71) that monitors the condition of both of the batteries - by condition I mean voltage, rate of voltage drop or rise during charge/discharge, etc. - and that controller is programmed to work with whatever the OEM specification batteries are. 

To tell you the truth, I don't know offhand what the spec for your right side battery is. I suspect that it is a larger specification battery than the ones that we use here in North America (for our benzine powered cars). But, I can assure you that the safest thing for you to do, what would give you the most reliable performance over the years (regardless of how cold it may be in your environment) would be to replace the right battery with exactly what the VW Parts Catalog says is the correct battery *for your VIN number*. 

Michael


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## zwmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm checking at my local auto parts shop what will bat's for my VIN be. 

Benjamin


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Benjamin:

OK... although the reference to "my local parts shop" scares me a bit 

That V10 TDI is a monster engine, and I am pretty sure (90% sure) that it uses a right side battery that is considerably larger than all the other Phaetons, even bigger than what is in my W12.

Let me go digging and see if I can find more information for you. I would hate like heck to see you get the wrong battery.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Benjamin:

I had a look in the German language self-study guide, and found the following specifications for the batteries.

It is interesting to note that for your engine (the V10 TDI), the batteries on the right and left sides of the car are exactly the same capacity. So, it might be possible that they are also exactly the same specification (same part number, in other words, both AGM).

As I said before, it is difficult for those of us in North America to help you very much with this, because VW did not offer the diesel engine Phaetons to us.

We have some very sharp and knowledgeable members here from the United Kingdom, many of whom drive V10 Phaetons. Hopefully one of them will notice this thread and jump in and provide the correct answers for you.

I have changed the title of your post slightly, in hope of getting more participation from the other European forum members.

Michael

*Battery Specifications*


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## zwmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

Thank you again Michael! 

I first found this forum and all your contributions before I decided to go buy a Phaeton. 
It’s DIY maintenance car. 
I use VAG-COM, ELSAWIN and good mechanic that is making all the engine repairs form me. 
The list of repairs is not so short but we managed all of them with no problems. DIY does not mean sloppy or cutting corners on quality etc. 
My local parts shop has good connections for various suppliers of parts no mater body or engine. 
I have some privileges there so I get what I need even if it’s not a standard part they are selling. I’m the single Phaeton customer there


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## Jim Morris (Nov 8, 2008)

As one of the lucky owners of a V10 I may be able to shed light on this: 

The battery on the right side of the V10 is (as far as I can tell) exactly the same as the one on the left. I believe this is necessary because the V10 engine requires considerable 'cranking power' when starting in cold weather. 

Right side battery: 










Close-up of part number, exactly the same as the one on the left side of the car: 










Hope this helps!


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## zwmaster (Dec 11, 2008)

Thank you Jim! 

V10 Rulez


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Jim Morris said:


> As one of the lucky owners of a V10 I may be able to shed light on this:
> 
> The battery on the right side of the V10 is (as far as I can tell) exactly the same as the one on the left. I believe this is necessary because the V10 engine requires considerable 'cranking power' when starting in cold weather.


 Wow - and both are the more expensive and superior AGM batteries. I have to admit, VW engineers seem to dominate most production decisions. Thank goodness it's not the beancounters.  

Jim X


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## apper01 (Aug 14, 2010)

Hi Jim,

can you see how old your batteries are? 

i just want to check with mine, as i do have two factory stickers which say march 2006, and see if these are still the factory ones.

i regularly hook them up with the charger, the right one always lights up green, and only the left one takes around 5 minutes to light up green.

guess it's a BAD idea to charge them in parallell with one charger....

rgds
aart


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## Jim Morris (Nov 8, 2008)

My right-side battery is the original one from 2004, and my left-side battery was replaced last year (I believe in April).


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Below a picture of the top of the left side battery, showing the date stamp on the terminal post.

Michael

*Top View of Left Side Battery*


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Another conversation of interest on the topic:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4771087-Left-Side-Battery-Replacement-Questions


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## Whitely (Feb 3, 2012)

*My terminal post says "22 05"???*

I am a "new" Phaeton owner (2004 V8) and I am having many of the "no-start", "battery dead", "multiple fault" problems that I have read about in your threads from 6-7 years ago! 

I put my car "away for the winter" on November 1st, started it about 3 weeks later, left it for a month and it wouldn't start. I boosted it and got it to go but now it's a no-go and I can't get it started with a boost. 

I checked the terminal post and it says, "22 05"...that doesn't make sense to me, other than it appears to be a 2005 battery. Kind of strange in a 2004 car? 

I'm kind of frustrated but really glad I found this site especially the many posts from Michael..it gives me hope! [I was one of those guys that sat in the seat with the power on reading the manual!!!] 

I purchased a battery charger this evening and I am going to see if it will hold a charge so that I can hopefully get it started...I want to drive it to the VW dealer rather than have it towed. 

Thanks again for the incredible amount of information you have/are providing. I've got a lot of reading to do! 

Steve. 












problems that I have


PanEuropean said:


> Below a picture of the top of the left side battery, showing the date stamp on the terminal post.
> 
> Michael
> 
> *Top View of Left Side Battery*


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

As Michael points out - dont go with any other batteries than similar to original by every attribute. 

I was having some eletrical difficulties about a year ago. 
Dealer had no compatible battery in stock, so we went with a different one, as close as possible, for one night untill exact battery is delivered. Dealer was convinced there must be no problem - non-standard battery must be strong enough to live next day. 
I did not even make 5 miles when car started to turn off feature by feature. Odometer did not count 10 miles until car went to something like coma state...  
And it was no good feeling driving in dark with no power steering, no power braking, completely no lights (even warning lights), no climate, almost no acceleration - no nothing...  
I'll remember this for a long time.


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## gdemos (Feb 5, 2012)

*LHS & RHS Battery Part #s and Dates*

Please help, i've read everywhere and got lost in the sauce

My Phaeton authorized dealer has the following:
000 915 105 CE for $190 This is LHS Correct?
000 915 105 DE for $110 This is RHS Correct?

My LHS Battery is seemingly discharged, while i get a read of 11.5 to 14 V (14 V following a 2Amp overnight charge oh and I don't know for sure if my charger is AGM rated). I have multiple faults (EPC, ABS, Level Fault Sensor, NO HIgh Beams, NO INdicator, NO Steering wheel light/control, flickering interior and headlights). 

Reading forum it seems CE part is LHS am I correct?
I would buy it now...However... The parts guy does not see any numbers on the Negative Post, he says it looks scratched off. i told him to call about getting a new one sent.

Am I off base about the Negative Post not having the date etched and shying away? Am I right to tell him to get a brand new one? 

Thank you Gentlemen,
-Greg


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Greg,

Those OEM battery part numbers are correct. The symptoms you describe match those of a low vehicle power supply voltage, usually caused by a failing LH battery.

As you say, it is the left battery that runs the car and is charged by the alternator, the right battery usually runs the starter motor only and is charged by the on-board battery charger which is run from the LH battery's supply.

The date numbers used to be punched into the negative lead post on the batteries, but later batteries have no marking there. Instead, there is a sticker which may not be clear to see when the battery is installed. It takes a little dismantling to pull the battery, so if it's hidden you have to really want to read that label to access it.

I suggest that with all those symptoms, even if it was actually some kind of charging or controller problem, the first step in diagnosis would be to fit a new left battery.

Also, see the thread in the TOC about the advisability of replacing an out-of-date battery controller part no. 3D0 915 181B with a suffix 'C' or later, since the old one can cause charging problems.

When disconnecting the batteries, please see the thread Battery Replacement Procedure, because it is statistically possible to trigger the pyrotechnic charge on the right battery if it's done in the wrong order.

I hope that helps.

Chris


*Right battery (except for V10 or if right battery is upgraded to use same as Left)*









*Left battery*


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## wetsiderkg (Dec 28, 2012)

Group sizes

49/h8
47/h5

I looked for weeks with various suppliers since the dealership wanted over $600 for the factory set.

Of all places my local Sears had both AGM’s in stock, diehard gold I believe. Cost under $400 for both. 

I replaced them both in 30 minute myself. 

Hope this helps.


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## gdemos (Feb 5, 2012)

*New CE LHS and 181C Controller on order*

Thanks for the tip Chris, 

New LHS and upgraded controller are on order through my dealer.

As another thing i've been wondering... when car is off I notice that the stereo sound is sub-par... particularly the spoken voice but also music. as if the subwoofer is not getting the power it needs. so my guess is this is a powered subwoofer(s). even standing outside the car doors closed, i hear a rattle similar to a 'blown speaker' sound. wonder if my headlights will get brighter, etc. will be curious to see if the new LHS is truly a new lease on life in general for the Phaeton.

-Greg


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## gdemos (Feb 5, 2012)

*question on Controller for LHS*

Pardon my lack of technical know-how, what I lack there I make up for in ability to research and follow direction.
:sly:
I have taken the advice (thanks Chris and all) to order a new LHS and updated controller from the dealer. I am not certain of the Controller spec that I currently have, but am assuming that it has a "B" suffix. So the new controller ordered is a "C" or "D" suffix


I enjoyed the post by Jason illustrating battery replacements
I cannot seem to find the particulars about replacing the Controller
Is there a similar post to this Controller Replacement process, is it just plug and play while all is disconnected? 

And forgive my ignorance, but what exactly will the upgraded Controller do?
Thanks again,
-Greg


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## pdejong0 (May 16, 2011)

gdemos said:


> I cannot seem to find the particulars about replacing the Controller
> Is there a similar post to this Controller Replacement process, is it just plug and play while all is disconnected?


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1900966#post19804242


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> ... what exactly will the upgraded Controller do?


Hi Greg,

There was a firmware flaw in the old suffix B model that undercharged the batteries, shortening their service life under some conditions. I guess the software was written against a smaller battery and somehow never updated for production.

The later one matches the charging to the OEM battery profile.

Chris


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## carlito35 (Mar 9, 2013)

PanEuropean said:


> *No, no, no, don't do that!!!!!*
> 
> The batteries are one of the most critical components on the Phaeton. As you have probably discovered, the Phaeton consumes more electricity than the CERN particle accelerator buried underneath Geneva. The last thing you want to do is make any compromises of any kind when replacing the batteries, most especially not with the left-hand side battery. Put cheap diesel fuel in it if you want, put cheap oil in it if you want, skip your maintenance inspections if you have to, but don't ever compromise on battery replacements! We have all learned this "the hard way" here in the forum.
> 
> ...



I hear what you are saying but has anyone tried different batteries? My Touarge has a similar dual battery setup for the V10 TDI one under the drivers seat and one under the spare tire. I have now two times used other than Varta batteries; interstate megatron in 2006 and now Diehard Platinum in 2013. Double battery Touaregs owners routinely change batteries from Varta with no issues reported. Is something different about the Phaeton?

The reason I ask is I'm wedding to finding then using the best; so I'll use Amsoil oil when the time comes and Diehard Platinum batteries which are rebranded Odyssey batteries made by Energys. The numbers on these batteries are just phenomenal and without compare. I put a PC1500 under my front seat and PC2100 under the rear tire in my Touareg.

For the Pheaton I just bought I discovered the batteries were new in 2009. That's change time for me (now 4 years). I believe I'll try two Diehard Platinum 50090 (the exact same innards as the Odyssey PC2100)or 34/78 series which will fit ( just a little shorter than the Vartas) and double the reserve capacity of the largest Varta. I'd love the see if the Diehard Platinum PM-1 battery will fit especially on the starter side but I suspect it's 2" higher body will present problems with the VW OEM cables which, from my Touareg experience, are EXTREMELY inflexible and limited to OEM installation.

In the OEM Phaetons the batter monitor is able to deal with at least three different batteries and several configurations based on engine choices. I mean the battery is after all just an electrical storage device not sure using non-Vartas will make any difference.

Anyone tried or installed other non Varta batteries?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I make the observation that the amp-hour rating of the battery only affects the ability to run the headlights with the engine stopped, or listen to the radio while parked. Even the basic batteries have plenty of power in reserve to crank the starter, provided they are new and charged.

It's the ability of the left battery to (a) provide a low internal resistance in the few hundred millisecs after resting quiescent for an arbitrary length of time that matters, in order to keep the terminal voltage high enough to prevent data glitches in the controllers and (b) to simultaneously provide a huge (by comparison) boost to cover for high resistance in the right battery should it be failing to keep its own voltage up during cranking.

There are a large number of variables to apply, such as length of standing since last charge, whether they have recently been physically disturbed (vibration etc), state of charge, age (in relation to plate surface area availability), history of deep discharge, number of consumers that want to start depending on ambient, ambient temerature of the electrolyte...

Anyway, good luck, like you I am sure that Varta are not the ultimate answer to Life, the Universe and Everything. Perhaps you can find a better value battery set that helps prevent glitches for a longer time, regardless of higher or lower price.

Chris


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## carlito35 (Mar 9, 2013)

Three battery manufactures make up 95% of all auto batteries sold in the world. Johnson Controls, East Penn, and Exide. According to my research Varta VW OEM batteries are made by Johnson Controls the same folks that make the Duralast, Autostart, Interstate, Die Hard Gold (but not Gold Advanced and not Die Hard Platinum). I wanted to install the Die Hard Platinum but that batter is not made in the Group 49 size which is the size for our passenger or starter battery. The Die Hard Advanced Gold makes a group 49 it is identical to our oem Varta but two inches longer. No problem as the negative cable has plenty of slack to cover. The Die Hard Advanced Gold is made by East Penn (Dekka) and is a vented AGM. I installed this group 49 batter replacing the 2005 OEM battery. Same 100 more CCA and 100 more reserve hour rating. Just all around better batter cost $179 out the door with 10% discount. 

Again I wanted to us the Platinum Marine PM-1 but it is 9.5" tall and our OEM battery at 8" fits snugly on the bottom of the plastic tray insert that slips over the battery. But for that I would have installed the PM-1 it is rated at 1150cca and 200 reserve capacity. It is the twin to the Odyssey PC2100 a Monster battery. But just did not want (or need for that matter) to chop up that otherwise useless tray bottom and leave the electronics exposed in the trunk...

My driver battery is 2009 I'll probably change it soon too.


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## Pink Panther (Jul 17, 2006)

*000915105CE vs 000915105DL*

000 915 105 CE = 92Ah/520A size= 353/175/190

000 915 105 DL = 110Ah/520A size= 392/175/190

Both are AGM. The DL cost Less yet being 110Ah should last longer, the 520A would allow it to be "safe" for the Phaetons electronics as it is the same as original.

Only question is will it fit being the length is apprx 1.5 inch longer. Hmm, The cost is about $30 difference at dealerships yet $70 savings thru online outlets.


Good reference to Varta batteries, sizes, amps, ect. (DL is missing)
http://www.thetradepartsspecialists.co.uk/pdf/Batteries_Catalogue.pdf

Here is the Only website i could find with sizing of the DL:
http://www.rexbo.eu/magnetimarelli/starter-battery-67110585010
(I called dealer parts as they measured both sitting on shelf and verified the size differences)


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Archival note:*
The above question was posted in more than one thread. See the thread below for the answer:

Left Side Battery Replacement Questions

It is usually best to post a question in a single thread, since any duplicates will both appear near the top of the thread list and potentially dilute the replies.

Chris


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