# Will not idle but runs great.



## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

This is the first cis e vehicle I have owned and I cannot find the isv to save my life. According to my bentley manual it should have one but I see nothing in my Bay that looks like one. Where would I find that and is that my problem with having a loping almost dying idle? Thanks for the help fellas. I have an 85 westy with 85k original miles.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Ant Deezie said:


> 85 westy


What's that? Westy are Vanagons, I thought.


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

They are the square headlight early mk2. Produced in the Westmoreland plant.


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

I've discovered that I do not have cis-e it is the cis with o2 sensor. The car does not have an ISV. All trouble shooting procedures I have found deal with cis-e and the testing of the valve via dwell meter. Since my car is not equipped with such features where shall I start and what should I be looking for? I have had a lot of folks look at this thread and I'd appreciate the help. Thank you!


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

Here is a picture of what my bay looks like. I am having a hard time figuring out if I have cis lambda or cis-e. According to the research I have done cis-e should have an ISV which I do not see anywhere. Also cis lambda should have a WUR and I do not have one as you can see in the picture. What cis system do I have so I can determine the proper way to begin tuning to get my rough idle situation figured out?


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

So out of 395 people that have viewed this thread I get one response from a guy that doesn't know what a westy golf is (no offense we all learn something new everyday). I would really appreciate some logical help here if anyone is willing to take a stab at it? Thank you!


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## Scirocco16 (Feb 4, 2012)

The first question is what is the valve on your fuel distributor 
? DPR or frequency valve?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

Frequency valve


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

It has both actually.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

You have CIS-e. There is no way you have a both.

It also would be nice to have a picture of the entire fuel system, you cut off most of the important parts [ie the fuel distributor].

As for a westy golf, that is not what you said. You said you had a westy. Obviously you do not know anything about Vanagons [but at least you learned something too]. http://www.north-westy.com/http://www.gowesty.com/ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=VW+Westy

As for your problem. I would start with testing the system for vacuum leaks. A smoke tester is preferred, 'cause it's that good. I would also make certain the lambda system is adjusted correctly. I personally like to adjust the fuel mixture so the DPR is reading 0ma. Both certainly could cause a crappy idle. I would then test the fuel pressures.

Of course, that is after I tested the basics such as ignition timing, idle adjustment, etc.


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

Butcher said:


> You have CIS-e. There is no way you have a both.
> 
> It also would be nice to have a picture of the entire fuel system, you cut off most of the important parts [ie the fuel distributor].
> 
> ...


When I said it has both it was in reference to having a DPR and frequency valve.


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

Also buddy I have been around vw's my whole life and very well aware of what a Westfalia bus is. Not teaching me anything new there. If I had a question in regards to a bus I wouldn't be asking about it on the tex. I would think common sense would tell you what I am referring to, I am terribly sorry I did not add the words golf. Anyhow thanks for the tidbit. Just needed to know what system I have and will troubleshoot it from there. Since it appears that it is cis e why is there not an ISV? That is what has been throwing me off between the two. Thank you! :beer::thumbup:


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

CIS-e does not have a frequency valve. You cannot have both. Just like CIS cannot have a DPR, it has a frequency valve.

So if you think you have both, I think you are wrong. Take a picture of both so we can determine what's up.


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

You can see both of them clearly in the picture.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

There is not a frequency valve in that picture. 

Time for someone else to help, this is getting too ridiculous.


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

Okay so then the little grey box connected to the fuel distributor would be the DPR based on my research and bentley. I was under the impression that the other cylinder shaped part with the fuel lines going into them just above it in the picture was the frequency valve. Apparently I am wrong which is why I stated that I have never had a cis-e vehicle so these parts are new to me. I have only had cis basic (rabbits) before and one cis lambda (cabby). The only confusion I am having now is that everything I have read says that a cis-e car should have an ISV that is mounted somewhere above the valve cover and I do not see one. Is a cis-e supposed to have one? Thank you


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Ant Deezie said:


> I have only had cis basic (rabbits) before and one cis lambda (cabby).


If you had a Cabriolet with CIS Lambda, then you would know what a frequency valve is. So how could you think the pressure damper was a frequency valve? 

Lots of confusion with this thread. Maybe that is why no one is willing to assist. You'll find the idle control valve if you look long and hard enough. I've done my share, time for someone to finish this one up.


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## steamfitter (Dec 27, 2014)

So, I used to turn wrenches on many of these cars when they were current. As with any gas engine, rough idle often means a vacuum leak . On CIS, it was usually the little fat o-ring on each injector. After a few years, they lose suppleness, become very hard and the seal is lost. One way to check for a vacuum leak is to idle the engine and spray carb cleaner around each injector or anyplace else you suspect a vacuum leak. If there is one, the engine speed will increase momentarily. (BTW, be careful spraying this stuff around a hot engine as it is very flammable; I strongly advise having a fire extinguisher handy!) If you find that the idle responds to spraying around any of the injectors, check the seal by prying it out of the head. There is a special tool for this but it can be done by carefully clamping the injector fitting with pliers and lever it out with a big screwdriver, levering on the pliers. The danger here is slipping and damaging the fuel line, so be careful. Cut the old seal off and slip a new on over the injector. 
While you have the injector(s) out, you can check how well they spray by jumping the fuel pump relay (to make the fuel pump run with the engine off) and raising the plate under the big air boot. ( the fuel only flows when the plate is lifted. Stick the injector in a glass jar to catch the gas. Again, this would be very dangerous -spraying gas on a hot engine!!) It should be a fine conical spray. A single stream shows a dirty or damaged injector. Sometimes you can clean an injector by removing it and spraying carb cleaner or compressed air through it. They do just wear out though and fortunately they're pretty cheap!

Hope this helps!
Tony H.


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## Ant Deezie (Jan 6, 2007)

Hey Tony thanks for your response! We all have more or less knowledge when it comes to certain years. I was a factory trained and certified vw tech for our local dealer during the mk4 Era and much more familiar with that fuel system. The cis and all the different versions aren't my specialty obviously. Thank you for the bit of info, I have gone over all vac lines and replaced any suspect ones. Found that the line that runs from the back of the mani to the solenoid below the passenger side shock tower had a nice Crack in it at the 90 coming from mani. Replaced that and it got much better but likes to idle around 1100. Going to check injector seals as well per your suggestion. Have a great day and if you have a spouse with children Happy Mothers day!


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

Some of the early A2s had a more basic CIS-E (no knock box, ISV, throttle switches). Instead of an ISV, you should see one or two (depending on if you have AC) idle boost valves mounted on the firewall, as well an auxiliary air regulator (sounds like you replaced one of the hoses for this?). The main boost valve is simply tripped when the rpms dip below a threshold and provides a bit more air. The AAR uses a heated bimetallic strip to allow additional metered air when cold. Over time, these tend to gunk up or otherwise fail to adjust through their full range. It's likely the idle screw was tampered with in the past. You could try dialing it in, although you might experience a low idle when cold in the winter.

Of course, this is over two months later and you've probably gotten everything sorted out by now. :laugh:


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