# MK4 adding negative camber to the front with airlift xl?



## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

So I was thinking of possibly adding 1 degree of negative camber to the front of my mk4 to try and do away with pulling my fenders. 

I saw this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1432095 but I was reading and looking it seems like some of these camber plates for the front bolt to the strut tower or go with the spring, but since I am on the airlift xl I am wondering what would work?


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

wouldnt you just offset the holes you need to drill to the inside of the strut towers thus causing you to have camber in the friont?


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

I have XL's with some camber up front, not much just 2.5-3 degrees. The key is R32 control arms and spindles :thumbup:


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## blue bags (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I have XL's with some camber up front, not much just 2.5-3 degrees. The key is R32 control arms and spindles :thumbup:


 i need those in my life.


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## Retromini (Nov 7, 2004)

Couldn't you just slot the holes you drill for the mounting plates? My strut towers are slotted from the factory and allow camber adjustment rather easily. 

The upper plate of the airlift mk4 struts is an incredibly simple design. I doubt it'd cost much to get a machine shop to cut you new ones, offset the strut mounting hole, and press in new studs. 

Adding camber through tt spindles won't help as much with clearance on the fenders as that camber is coming from the bottom of the suspension geometry's triangle. Camber plates make the adjustment at the top of the triangle, pulling the tire in away from the fender.


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## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I have XL's with some camber up front, not much just 2.5-3 degrees. The key is R32 control arms and spindles :thumbup:


 this 



andrew m. said:


> are the r32 control arms the same as the TT control arms? I would assume so since it's pretty much the same platform.
> 
> I had planned to do TT control arms + H2 Sport Spindles with my BagYards. Houck is ran the H2 spindles and had great success with them :thumbup:


 im pretty sure my buddy jeff's front setup is from a TT originally. he added a decent amount of camber to his tdi golf


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

TT = R32 

spindles & control arms


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## JesseAirLiftCompany (Aug 5, 2009)

Retro is dead on with the triangle. Elongating the holes drilled inboard a few mil should get you a couple degree of play.


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

Retromini said:


> Couldn't you just slot the holes you drill for the mounting plates? My strut towers are slotted from the factory and allow camber adjustment rather easily.
> 
> The upper plate of the airlift mk4 struts is an incredibly simple design. I doubt it'd cost much to get a machine shop to cut you new ones, offset the strut mounting hole, and press in new studs.
> 
> Adding camber through tt spindles won't help as much with clearance on the fenders as that camber is coming from the bottom of the suspension geometry's triangle. Camber plates make the adjustment at the top of the triangle, pulling the tire in away from the fender.





JesseAirLiftCompany said:


> Retro is dead on with the triangle. Elongating the holes drilled inboard a few mil should get you a couple degree of play.


 I am a little confused on what you guys are talking about with the holes. Do you mean elongating the 3 holes I drilled for the xls on my strut towers. If I elongated them (both sides elongate towards the engine) how exactly would that work since the center of the strut wouldn't be center in the strut tower and wouldn't it hit or something or sit unevenly? 


Sorry just a little confused, but thanks for the help everyone. :thumbup: 


Not really trying to do the R32 spindles/control arms just yet trying to do it the cheaper way first to see if Ill even be happy with the way clearance I get.


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## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

i don't have airlift struts but what you need are the ingalls camber plates, they are about 100 bucks iirc and they bolt on in place of the ball joint, the ball joint then bolts to the plate and it gives you about 2 degrees either way to slide it in or out


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

martin13 said:


> i don't have airlift struts but what you need are the ingalls camber plates, they are about 100 bucks iirc and they bolt on in place of the ball joint, the ball joint then bolts to the plate and it gives you about 2 degrees either way to slide it in or out


 I looked on their website and couldn't find anything for the mk4, maybe Ill give them a call tomorrow. As if I am adding camber I will probably need to correct the toe as well.


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## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

Jester2893 said:


> I looked on their website and couldn't find anything for the mk4, maybe Ill give them a call tomorrow. As if I am adding camber I will probably need to correct the toe as well.


 looks like they took it off their site... 
i found it on another site (http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/product.php?xProd=13214) and yes you will have to adjust the tie rods after putting it in


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

martin13 said:


> looks like they took it off their site...
> i found it on another site (http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/product.php?xProd=13214) and yes you will have to adjust the tie rods after putting it in



Hmm have you ordered from them before? I called ingall and they said they are redesigning it so they have no ETA when it will be available for testing or production. 

Thanks :thumbup:


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## .:Hinrichs:. (Apr 26, 2010)

with my GLI my wheels poked a lot when i was at driving height but when it dropped down they pulled in about an inch or more


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

.:Hinrichs:. said:


> with my GLI my wheels poked a lot when i was at driving height but when it dropped down they pulled in about an inch or more


The same happens to me pretty much, but I want to be able to drive a little lower without hitting my fenders and causing them to get messed up like my current ones are.

I figured if I just add a negative degree or two it would pull them in slightly and allow me to tuck a little more as well since I am being held up by the outer portion of the sidewall.


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

bump i mounted my new wheels on and have noticed the front has some positive camber.. is the final verdict r32 controll arms and spindles?


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

Tofik said:


> bump i mounted my new wheels on and have noticed the front has some positive camber.. is the final verdict r32 controll arms and spindles?


In my opinion, yes. R32 or TT control arms and spindles are the way to go.


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> In my opinion, yes. R32 or TT control arms and spindles are the way to go.


 ehhh $hit, and here i was thinking i was finally done with my car


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

Well for you the tt/r32 spindals would work, I however want to move the top of my tire closer in while keeping the bottom the same or kicking it out the slightest bit.

I am only running and 8" front but I am running 10mm offset with a 205/45. When I air it looks flush and perfect, but I can't drive low without hitting my fenders and causing waves and imperfections. I am hoping with a good roll on my new fenders (maybe even a slight pull/hitting of the inside of the fender before the body work) and some negative camber I would be set. Plus the camber in the front will match the rear whenever I get to do it.


I actually order the Ingall camber plates from a member on here that had them used. Hopefully they will go on in the next two weeks depending on when I get them and let everyone know how they work out. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## joelzy (Aug 20, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> In my opinion, yes. R32 or TT control arms and spindles are the way to go.


yerp, i slotted my towers attempting to correct it but to no avail. they topped out regardless because of the CA angle. 
As soon as i switched to TT/R spindles and CAs it was the opposite. Negative camber and much better angles on the CAs. the positive camber was driving me nuts, but the TT/R components are the perfect fix.


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

Jester2893 said:


> I am a little confused on what you guys are talking about with the holes. Do you mean elongating the 3 holes I drilled for the xls on my strut towers. If I elongated them (both sides elongate towards the engine) how exactly would that work since the center of the strut wouldn't be center in the strut tower and wouldn't it hit or something or sit unevenly?
> 
> 
> Sorry just a little confused, but thanks for the help everyone. :thumbup:
> ...


Can anyone help me out with this? I got my ingalls camber plates installed, but ran into a problem when they were installed so I had to take them off for now. I did notice when they were installed however that it pushed the bottom of the wheel out similar to how the tt/R32 spindals do. 

I am wondering how I can get the top to suck in as well? I guess by elongating the 3 holes I drilled for my airlift struts, but wouldn't this cause the center of the strut to be pushed towards one side more? In my case closer to the inside of the bay for negative camber?


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

Anyone please?


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## midwest dubin (Feb 18, 2008)

Someone freaking do this so I can see this!


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## vdubbbgti (Sep 13, 2008)

i personally think this design is stupid and i will be getting rid of my xls for bombers with r32 spindles and control arms


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## joelzy (Aug 20, 2007)

midwest dubin said:


> Someone freaking do this so I can see this!


do what? slot towers? 
i did it, though it helped a tad it was never enough for the horrible angle on the CAs and it always ended up back to positive. mind you it was only when aired out but it still drove me insane. 
so as far as correcting xl posi camber i dont recommend slotting cause it wasnt worth while and i now have long holes in my towers. just do the R/TT parts and make it all better


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

joelzy said:


> do what? slot towers?
> i did it, though it helped a tad it was never enough for the horrible angle on the CAs and it always ended up back to positive. mind you it was only when aired out but it still drove me insane.
> so as far as correcting xl posi camber i dont recommend slotting cause it wasnt worth while and i now have long holes in my towers. just do the R/TT parts and make it all better


But from reading an earlier post doing the R/TT parts will still only push the bottom of the wheel in or out not the top where when you slot the holes or add camber plates up top it sucks the top in while keeping the bottom in the same spot which is what I am looking to do.


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## joelzy (Aug 20, 2007)

Jester2893 said:


> But from reading an earlier post doing the R/TT parts will still only push the bottom of the wheel in or out not the top where when you slot the holes or add camber plates up top it sucks the top in while keeping the bottom in the same spot which is what I am looking to do.


correct, i dont know your reason for needing it that way but theoretically yes it might make a difference. i could see the concern if you are working for the perfect offsets.

mine are still slotted and moved inward on the slots as well as the TT/R stuff and i have a noticeable amount more neg camber than the rear which is around 1.5 i think. i can only imagine its a combo of the two and not just the TT bits meaning the slots did something, it just wasnt enough with stock spindles and lcas.


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## wagner17 (Oct 20, 2009)

im looking for a set of lca and spindles


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