# VW will never change



## Fu Hok (Aug 28, 2001)

After having owned six VWs I have finally given up on them. And believe me I'm very happy.







VW is slowly digging it's own grave with pricing their cars out of reach. My first VW was an '86 GTI. My last a '02 GTI 1.8T
The manufacturing has definitely improved, but still problems are abundant. Annoying problems







that VW seems to have a tough time getting a handle on.
The biggest thing that VW seems to have no control of is the terrible service network that customers have to deal with. Service quality is something to be desired. This can't exist if VW wants to compete in the high end automobile market. Who in their right mind would spend $90K for a VW when they can get a Mercedes S class.
That's all for now. Let's see how the new line stacks up. I got to say though the Jetta V is one ugly car.


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_After having owned six VWs I have finally given up on them. And believe me I'm very happy.







VW is slowly digging it's own grave with pricing their cars out of reach. My first VW was an '86 GTI. My last a '02 GTI 1.8T
The manufacturing has definitely improved, but still problems are abundant. Annoying problems







that VW seems to have a tough time getting a handle on.
The biggest thing that VW seems to have no control of is the terrible service network that customers have to deal with. Service quality is something to be desired. This can't exist if VW wants to compete in the high end automobile market. Who in their right mind would spend $90K for a VW when they can get a Mercedes S class.
That's all for now. Let's see how the new line stacks up. I got to say though the Jetta V is one ugly car.


who is Vw pricing their cars out of reach of?
The average new car in the us last year was around $26000. the current Jetta and golf, most of the passat models are under that number. The Passat can creep to $30K loaded, but it's still a good value at that price.
As for the $90K for a VW, I can give you at least 2000 people that did just that last year.
I wonder when people might grasp that they are not the only people in the world buying VW's.


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## kuklaki (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (Corradodrvrfnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_Who in their right mind would spend $90K for a VW when they can get a Mercedes S class.


Why the "







" on the Phaeton? It's a luxury automobile, not ever intended for blue collar buyers. It is what it is-a fine automobile crafted with some features that have never been done before. So you are saying that no one should buy it because of the brand? I would challenge you to tell me anything about that model that would not command the price. (Of course you chose to quote the price on the top-end model as well)
You may not too far off base with saying why would people chose the Phaeton over a Merc...because brand names sell, because VW had not previously broken into this particular market before, and because surprisingly few people do their homework when shelling out high dollars for a car. Trust me, I see it every day where I work. This does not make the average John Q. Public right.
If VW had not set it's sights into breaking into new designs, new markets, and better quality vehicles they'd still be selling the old Beetle. I am rather glad they are out there testing the waters. 

_Modified by kuklaki at 5:06 PM 2-10-2005_


_Modified by kuklaki at 5:06 PM 2-10-2005_


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## Fu Hok (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: VW will never change (kuklaki)*

I like your name. It means small doll in Greek.
All I'm saying is that if you want to compete in this price market then there's no room for error. Both the Phaeton and the Touraeg. I'm sure the Jetta is going up there as well as the Passat.
My first VW was an '86 GTI and I got to tell you this. Their service is still the same. It lacks quality. And what really upsets me is that they want the customer to score them high (5). They beg for that high score.
I've had six VWs since '86. I've done all the mod work myself on a few of them. I'm sorry to say though but they still lack quality. It still needs improvement. The annoying problems I had with my '02 GTI reminded me of my '86. It's rather funny that they still miss the point of quality after 16 years. Oh well. I drive a '05 Accord V6 now which is fully loaded and I got for $23.5K. I got to tell you. The Jetta or even the Passat for that matter comes close.
Testing the high market waters is not for VW. They can't compete in that market if they want to make a profit. The Phaeton will fail just like the Passat W8 did.


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_I like your name. It means small doll in Greek.
All I'm saying is that if you want to compete in this price market then there's no room for error. Both the Phaeton and the Touraeg. I'm sure the Jetta is going up there as well as the Passat.
My first VW was an '86 GTI and I got to tell you this. Their service is still the same. It lacks quality. And what really upsets me is that they want the customer to score them high (5). They beg for that high score.
I've had six VWs since '86. I've done all the mod work myself on a few of them. I'm sorry to say though but they still lack quality. It still needs improvement. The annoying problems I had with my '02 GTI reminded me of my '86. It's rather funny that they still miss the point of quality after 16 years. Oh well. I drive a '05 Accord V6 now which is fully loaded and I got for $23.5K. I got to tell you. The Jetta or even the Passat for that matter comes close.
Testing the high market waters is not for VW. They can't compete in that market if they want to make a profit. The Phaeton will fail just like the Passat W8 did. 

it sounds like your dealer is the problem, not vw.


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## kuklaki (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_I like your name. It means small doll in Greek.

Thank you! The "kukla's" are my cars







I'd guess I'd better be careful and not use bad words in Greek in this forum-all sorts of people here speak it









_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_Their service is still the same. It lacks quality. And what really upsets me is that they want the customer to score them high (5). They beg for that high score..

I cannot argue with you there-for every one "good" story of a dealership there are ten bad experiences. It is time that VWoA started cracking down on these dealers or fine them/threaten to revoke or suspend dealer licenses for serious infractions/multiple complaints. Perhaps then the dealers will take a little more pride in treating their customers with respect. 
This is why the Jetta actually goes to the Acura dealer across the street to VW for service-they treat me like a queen there, and that is no exaggeration. 
I agree with the other post above this one, that the problems perhaps start with the dealerships and customer treatment. If you want to cater to the high roller market, you need to treat them as such. In fact, you should be treating *every* customer this way. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_Testing the high market waters is not for VW. They can't compete in that market if they want to make a profit. The Phaeton will fail just like the Passat W8 did. 

Sales were lower than hoped for because of poor marketing, but I dont agree that any attempt at a VW-branded luxury vehicle will fail. After all, Audi is very successful in that market so VW already has it's foot in the door, so to speak. It takes time for an automaker to be associated with a certain niche. Take a look at the early 80's BMW and Audi's....they were not favoured as creme de la creme by the buying public the way they are today.


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## Fu Hok (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: VW will never change (kuklaki)*

At least kuklaki is a good word so you don't have to worry. I live in the Boston area. Throughout my VW owner experience I have been to four dealers. They all are pretty much the same. All they care about is sales. Once you buy the car then it's pretty much a done deal. You mentioned Audi. I think that's another problem for VW. They're already in the high cost market. Why compete with something you already have. Take Honda for example. The new Accord V6 Hybrid is $30K. The most expensive Accord. Then they have Acura. That's their high end offer. Two different areas of concentration. By the way, I saw the new RL AWD the other day. Sweet car.
The bottom line is VW needs to work hard to change these dealers. The quality of care for a Phateon or Touraeg owner should be the same as one of a Jetta or Golf. The annoying little problems should be dealt with as well. If I tell you my '02 GTI issues you'll laugh.







Quality, quality, quality. They need more.


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*

I bought my '04 Jetta GLS for the _exact same _price my fiance paid for her '04 Corolla S. 

Which car would _you_ rather drive?


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## shadowblue (Dec 22, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (Nazareth33)*

jetta, without a doubt.


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (shadowblue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shadowblue* »_jetta, without a doubt.

I don't think that there is any question. I'm not knocking the Toyota, I think her Corolla is great. But my Jetta feels much more like her brother's BMW than her Corolla. I think that in the "economy car" class, VW _definitely_ gives you more for your money than other companies.
I do, however, see the point of the original post. If you are going to spend $90K on a car, how many people are going to buy a VW? I think VW realizes this and are marketing the Phaeton accordingly, to specific demographics (e.g. small town doctors who want a luxury car but don't want their neighbors to see their medical bills paying for the doctor's Benz).


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## SteveMKIIDub (Nov 6, 2003)

Yea, my car, NEVER goes to the dealer. NEVER. They will have to lick my bag before I will let them lay their hands on it..
Yea, dubs do have quirky annoyances to them, I'll admit, but of the Mark2's all my family has owned, they may break down - but the bastards all last a uber-long time.


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## VWTardis (Jun 27, 2004)

*Re: (SteveMKIIDub)*

Those who believe that VW can not compete in the luxury market forget two things. First the US is on of their smallest markets.







Secondly in most of the rest of the world THEY ALREADY compete with the luxury market







I am constanly amazed by how many people in this country think that what happens in this country has any shred of reality to what happens in other countries. VW did not get to be the GM of Europe by being stupid. They sell twice as many cars in China as they do in the US. And by the way have you ever compaired a Mercedes S class feature for feature with a Phaeton


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## Fu Hok (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: (VWTardis)*

It doesn't matter what you compare. VW has a long way to go when it comes in service quality. Quality period. My first was an '86 GTI. My last was a '02 GTI. I had another four in between these years. Bottom line is you see quite a bit of improvement but they still have problems. Problems and quality issues that are inexcusable.
I agree with you to some extend that US is VW's smallest market. But it's the biggest when it comes to lux cars. Look at the fuel costs in Europe. The W8 was dropped in Germany due to almost no sales due to fuel costs.
VW is already in the lux market with Audi. Why compete with themselves? That's what I don't understand. They should stay in the market they know. The marque says it all. Volkswagen. The way they're going they will be known as the "Rich People's Car".
Quality and service should be their number one priority. That's how they'll be able to tap into the Japanese controlled market here. You can't compare a Jetta to an Accord. The Honda quality and reliability speaks for itself. As Toyota's does. And Nissan's.


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## tacticalwrench (Feb 19, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*

The new Jetta looks like a Camry!!! What happened to VW being different?


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## Fu Hok (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: VW will never change (tacticalwrench)*

The same thing that happened to Mercedes and BMW. Have you seen them lately?


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## ACschnitzer23 (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*

I dont think vw needs to change that much, besides their warrenties and dealership service. To me a volkswagen is a volkswagen, and the brand seems to be going through an identity crisis. I may take hell for this, but VW is to the european car segment as hyundai is to the Japanese segment. It is true VW is the hyundai of europe and hyundai is going through the same identity crisis as vw. for an example their models are very similiar the tiberon v6 to the Gti, Elantra GT, to the Jetta, Sonata to the passat. ect ect. my point is vw is doing nothing wrong given that it's compitition is doing the same thing. I just think people come down too hard on vw and fail to realize they are cheap cars and a good value for what you pay.
-Ryan


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (ACschnitzer23)*

Bottom Line:
I have owned VWs since the early eighties and while the cars themselves are very good overall, the dealer network (servicing in particular) is terrible!
Secondly, VWoA is a failure because it does not offer a full range of its models in the US and Canada. 
Unfortunately VWoA has changed....... they went from offering soild and mostly dependable cars with excellent dealer service in the 60's and early 70's to the mess they are now. 
With no entry level cars, which are the essence of the people's car company, (Polo and Lupo) and terrible dealers the picture is bleak to say the least.


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## BloodRedRado (Jan 31, 2005)

_Quote »_it sounds like your dealer is the problem, not vw.
 
Brand loyalty starts with how one is treated at the dealer when you buy and any subsequent service. And with the annoying quality control problems that seem to plague VW's while still under warranty, that means more than a few trips to the dealer. You are already pissed off that your headlamps have burned out for the 4th time in the first year of ownership, or that the brake pads wore out after 8k because of a sticky caliper. To then be treated like crap by the dealer (the representative FOR the marque) for actually asking for warranty work to be performed will NOT engender fond feelings for a marque. 
As far as Volkswagen getting into the high-end market, they have a lot to overcome. It isn't like they are a new marque trying to establish themselves; they are trying to re-define themselves. They are historically known for producing good basic cars for the average masses, not for producing luxury vehicles. They have to overcome their Bohemian image. This means red carpet treatment for all of their customers, not just the Phaeton customers. (And why in the HELL did they name a 4 door HARDTOP sedan after an open roof car???







) They will not gain the upscale recognition they desire if they don't treat their customers right. They will further alienate that market if they can't keep their cars from falling apart after 30k miles. Honestly, they should address the problems with their existing lines before venturing into deeper waters (the high-end market)








I have several good friends with late model VW's. One with a Golf, two with Jetta's and one with a VR6 Passat Wagon. Each and every one of them REGRETS their purchase and cannot wait to unload their cars and buy something RELIABLE. That is a pretty sad statement for a car company.


_Modified by BloodRedRado at 4:38 PM 2-20-2005_


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## Fu Hok (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: (BloodRedRado)*

I couldn't say it better myself BloodRedRado.
My first was an '86 GTI, then an '89 Jetta GLI Wolfsburg, then a '94 GTI followed by a '99 Jetta 2L, then a '00 Jetta 1.8T and then my last which was a '02 GTI.
The crappy service the dealers offered back in '86 is pretty much the same now. I've tried about five different dealerships around the Boston area over the years I've had the VWs.
The parts network is terrible. Waiting for parts for ever. Mechanics are a joke. I can't believe the people that work on the cars. I have gotten frustrated time after time for taking the car in and not getting things done. The result. Take the car in again and again.
VW as a company overall is missing the big picture. The new score system they have in place is a mess. It's a joke. VW should start listening to the customer closer. They need to pay attention and focus on quality.
Getting into the high market without preparation will make them look like losers. They already screwed up with the W8 Passat. I have the best solution for them. Stick to the low to medium market and leave the high end marque to Audi. Their max market shouldn't go over $40K.
After having six VWs I couldn't take the failure after failure on car quality and service. I have moved over to the Japanese market and the '05 Accord EX V6 with 240hp and 5-speed auto is amazing. Finish, quality, reliability. And all for $23.5K - Amazing car with great features for a great price.


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## in_euro_dreams (Sep 19, 2004)

In my opinion VW's engineering is very advanced for it's pricing. They have advanced engineering for their price, but they give up in the quality of materials in some areas. For example the ash tray in the A3 Jetta is a good sound design, but the materials they chose to use for it aren't the best. The plastic they use on the steering wheel column cover isn't the best. I guess they have to cut corners somewhere. 
Take a look at BMW, they have great engineering and great materials, VW great engineering poor materials. When I was buying parts for my BMW 318 I remember seeing a sign that said "When you're buying replacement parts for your BMW. Buy only quality BMW parts, it's a once in a liftime experience." I can't help but think that I would most likely only buy one new steering wheel column cover because of the quality of parts. But with my Jetta I am afraid that every time I get out of my car too quick im going to knee the column cover and need to get a new one. It's something we all have to sacrafice. But apparently more people are willing to sacrifice more, look at the mustang, low enginnering and materials (haha). But yeah, honda does make a good car.


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## Fu Hok (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: (in_euro_dreams)*

What do you mean advanced engineering for the price?
Do you call the front seats of a GTI advanced engineering? Give me a break. The seat support and quality sucked. Your back has no support at all? If you poke the seat from the back you can go right thru. By the way they had to replace my seat twice with less than 30K on the car. It rattled like an old sofa.
I have so many bad quality stories to say. It's not really worth it. VW has to figure out a way to listen to the customer. Coming thru these useless surveys apparently doesn't work. The quality of service is still crappy. The quality of workmanship is somewhat similar as well.


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## BetterByDesign (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: (Fu Hok)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_It doesn't matter what you compare. VW has a long way to go when it comes in service quality. Quality period. My first was an '86 GTI. My last was a '02 GTI. I had another four in between these years. Bottom line is you see quite a bit of improvement but they still have problems. Problems and quality issues that are inexcusable.
I agree with you to some extend that US is VW's smallest market. But it's the biggest when it comes to lux cars. Look at the fuel costs in Europe. The W8 was dropped in Germany due to almost no sales due to fuel costs.
VW is already in the lux market with Audi. Why compete with themselves? That's what I don't understand. They should stay in the market they know. The marque says it all. Volkswagen. The way they're going they will be known as the "Rich People's Car".
Quality and service should be their number one priority. That's how they'll be able to tap into the Japanese controlled market here. You can't compare a Jetta to an Accord. The Honda quality and reliability speaks for itself. As Toyota's does. And Nissan's.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Ummm....you guys must be kidding. At 90K range, people are buying not just "car." and while, very true to remember VW sells not just in north america...but if you cant sell a luxury brand in the U.S., you have problems on your hands. 
The writer is not just talking about product. He has mentioned service a few times. It is the same. Do you really think a guy paying 90K will blink twice at the nonsense from VW dealerships? At $90K things have to been done right, the first time, everytime. You cannot have owners of VW Bugs and Phaetons dealing with the same service centres and staff. Service needs at minimum to be differentiated like the product. 
Buy hey, VW already did that...its called AUDI.
BetterByDesign.


_Modified by BetterByDesign at 7:48 AM 2-22-2005_


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## BloodRedRado (Jan 31, 2005)

BetterByDesign, I think perhaps VW is bringing Audi down to VW level. 
I looked at a 3 or 4 different used Audi TT's not too long ago (within the past year), and I must say I was disappointed. The cars were all less than 2 years old and all had less than 25k on them.
The car handled great, was fun to drive, but for a car less than 2 years old, there were A LOT of little things that were broken on each of the cars. Both glovebox locks were broken on two of the TT's I looked at. The gear shift boot had pulled loose at the base of one. The convertible roof didn't work properly on one. The ignition switch was "funky" on one of them. One of them had a power drain somewhere, and the battery kept dying.
After seeing how these cars were not holding up, I scratched the TT off my list. Even stranger was the response I got to why some of the major problems (ignition switch, power drain and roof) had not been fixed. "Oh, they're still under warranty. All you have to do is go to the dealer and they'll take care of it, no charge. Easy fixes." Hmmm... if it was so easy and hassle-free, why didn't they do this BEFORE selling the cars? Because THEY didn't want to deal with the service from Audi/VW.









_Modified by BloodRedRado at 11:28 PM 2-23-2005_


_Modified by BloodRedRado at 10:41 AM 2-24-2005_


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## BetterByDesign (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: (BloodRedRado)*

I have heard the same about the TT, but I would not use the TT to represent Audi quality. I have driven a few models of the A4 which I consider to more of the bread and butter for Audi and all of them were tight. The TT is literally a toy.


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## ccweems (May 26, 2002)

*The heart of the issue...*

If VW is only aiming for the diehard enthusiast’s market they don’t have to change anything, but over time sales will continue to decline because even the fanatic get tired of taking the car back. 
I expect the “dealer service quality” is really a question of how easy it is for the dealer to get paid back from VOA. Why should the dealer care about how extensive to perform a repair or provide a loaner car if VOA will pay for it? I traded my ’94 Jetta for a new 2000 MB ML320. Was the ML trouble free? No. Was I inconvenienced? Not really, nor did I care as long as they would give me replacement wheels. The cost to MB have been horrendous not only for SUV’s but for all of their cars. MB has had poor consumer ratings in the US and abroad (the ML was just recently rated the worst car in the UK by CAR). Recently worldwide profits for MB were announced to be far lower than expected as a result of high warranty costs. VW’s ratings have been even worse.
If VW wants to pursue the same market as the Japanese they better get serious about design. Design is the root of quality issues. Most of VW’s problems these days come from electrical components. The Japanese car manufactures make few of their own electrical components; they buy them from outside suppliers. I have spoken to some of these companies at the Frankfurt Autoshow where such OEM suppliers market. If VW wanted to buy the same motors, connectors, wiring harnesses and the like that Toyota uses they are available. Those vendors will sell to anybody. They told me that the Germans and Americans are difficult to deal with at the design stage (“we know better”) and try to squeeze prices too tight. The Japanese on the other are more worried about functional specifications, consistency and are not as aggressive on price. All of the coils that got fried on the 1.8T motors failed because of bad design, not quality.
As it is, driving a VW under warranty is only an occasional irritation but once it’s on your nickel however it can become an economic disaster unless you can fix it yourself. I expect the reason there is no VW (or Audi) factory extended warranty is that it would either be priced in the stratosphere and embarrass VW in the process or if competitively priced would be a financial disaster for VOA.
I am not trying to steal the enthusiast’s joy. The driving pleasures they derive are not likely to attained from any Japanese brand, but don’t be surprised if the family that drives an automatic Jetta leaves this happy group and never returns. Unfortunately for VW in this competitive market there are not enough consumers for them to burn through. To be truly successful they need to foster maniacal loyalty like they did when they had the Bug, great dealers and customers who loved their cars with all their heart. 
_Modified by ccweems at 6:19 PM 2-24-2005_


_Modified by ccweems at 6:20 PM 2-24-2005_


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## VWGti AudiA4 (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: The heart of the issue... (ccweems)*

I bought a vw after my wife had bought an audi (there are no audis for me I don't need a status symbol, and i cannot afford an s4) anyways i have been to the dealer a few times, as has my wife, and the dealerships are connected and on the vw side I get treated like ****, and my wife gets treated like a goddess. This will be my first and last vw, love the car hate the service, AUDI rules.


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## Lioness (Feb 25, 2005)

*Re: The heart of the issue... (VWGti AudiA4)*

First, I have to reply to this statement : 
"After having six VWs I couldn't take the failure after failure on car quality and service. I have moved over to the Japanese market and the '05 Accord EX V6 with 240hp and 5-speed auto is amazing. Finish, quality, reliability. And all for $23.5K - Amazing car with great features for a great price."

Why on earth would you buy six of something you believed to be bad quality? I once had a Ford Escort. Once. Never again.

I do have to say, I absolutely love my car. I have not regretted buying it even after being in an accident. I didn't take it to the dealer and ended up getting seriously screwed by the body shop who used JB Wield on some parts instead of replacing them. (For those that don't know, JB Wield is like Bondo for plastic, Ridiculous!) Even after having custom rims put on and lowered, the dealer still did some repairs and replaced parts on it under warranty when it clearly wasn't a warranty issue. (My car was about two months old) I think that was pretty decent service. 
Also I see a lot of old, beat up looking Jettas still driving around. I, myself, being a single mother had the opportunity to buy a car outright. I could have spent less money on a car that would have ended up being nice and new for a year or two and cracked and broke pieces off easily in an accident, or I could spend a bit more money on a pretty decent car with pretty good quality that ended up having a lot less damage than most cars in the type of accident I had, and my kids could have been seriously hurt. I was sick after my accident, but thankful that I was in my Jetta. I knew when I went out to buy my car it was going to be a Honda or a VW. A little pricey for your every day Joe (Or Jane) but afffordable enough that an average working single mom can spend a bit of extra money for some pretty decent quality. (And heated, leather seats







) It's a lot better than the Taurus' and Neons most people like me have. 
As a car lover, I know VW's aren't Beamers or Mercedes, but I must say they aren't total crap either. My dad was mad I bought it, but then again, he's in the shop a few times a year getting something major fixed on his Mustangs.


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## Fu Hok (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: The heart of the issue... (Lioness)*

Affordability caused the number six. Also, my first was back in '86.
The bottom line is as you look at the thread VW needs to get serious about quality finish and better service outlets. You can't be selling an SUV for $50K and have crappy service. $50 buys you a Lexus RX330. No comparison in service. No comparison in quality workmanship.
I've had a lengthy interaction with a number of dealers. I got to tell you this. It's all about the sale. After that you're pretty much on your own. Oh, one more thing. It seems they're having a tough times with parts also. It's uncalled for to wait for months for parts.
That's all for now.


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## psychoart (Feb 21, 1999)

*Re: The heart of the issue... (Fu Hok)*

6 VW cars in 19 years. Geez. That's an average lifespan of approximately 3 years per vehicle. No wonder why VW is a failure. I bought mine in 1999, and sold it in 2003. How lucky was I?








That's right. VW is...
When I traded my Golf III for the Golf V, I thought that VW would have been up to date. Guess what!?! That's right MAF censored.
Thank you for letting us, or me, know. At least, I don't have to buy 4 more PO$.








A disgrace to Germany http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif (I hope some German politicians can read that)
And I was going to start a thread titled, "How VW has lost it all?"
I'm gonna save my butt by not telling. You could market that (i.e. VW Marketing).



_Modified by psychoart at 10:10 PM 2-25-2005_


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## gcarson (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: The heart of the issue... (psychoart)*

VW has always run hot and cold. When they discontinued the air cooler Beetle and replaced it with what always view as a POS I swore I was thru with VW's. Then the Scirocco came out and I bought one in '86. To this day that one is the last new VW I will ever buy. I have had about 7 others in the meantime but only because they are a dime a dozen used and cheap and easy to work on. If I was spending $20 - $30K for a car it certainly wouldn't be a VW. I have worked on too many stupid problems over the years to think that VW is serious about real quality.


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## jimix (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: The heart of the issue... (gcarson)*

Just wanted to get in a post to represent satisfied VW owners. 
I have owned 4 VWs and am very happy with the quality and engineering of the cars. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I enjoy driving and my GTI makes me smile. (as did my Corrado, Jetta, and Golf).


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## Hung (Feb 3, 2005)

I hate VW !!!
My brand-new Golf V 2.0 FSI Automatic with Tiptronic, Every time, I start-up slowly from 1st gear and just shift to 2nd gear automatically,
i send more power to speed-up, at this moment the engine sometime hesitation & out of control more then one second and back to normal smoothly. 
I found the other brand new Golf V had the same symptom.
I've send it back to the servicing centre immediately, they found and logged the problem & send the data to VM Germany.
But, the result is "NORMAL", this is a fuzzy logic programming gear box,do you believe this symptom is normal and can you accept this !!
Ps. test your Golf V immediately !!


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## MGolf (Jun 2, 2004)

*Re: (Hung)*

Sorry to hear about the problem with your GOLF V but we haven't got them in the US yet... and won't for a year or so.








I hope that the problem with your dub will be fixed and you join all those who give http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to their VW's!
Cheers!


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## Hung (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: (MGolf)*

Do you know why i hate VW ?
Because the local distributor technical engineer & service engineer can feel and saw this problem many times with me, they feel there is a serious problem, after road test, they log computer data & send to VM engineer many times, feedback is "normal" and tell me to change my driving behaver to mach the on-board computer !!
The servicing manager tell me "They can do nothing", until global recall !!


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## hackaholic (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_ I drive a '05 Accord V6 now which is fully loaded and I got for $23.5K. 

let`s see what`s left of that honda once you run into something....you will crumple, i will laugh. it seems like your problems are caused by going to the dealer too often. get a rabbit (around $500 compared to your $23.5K), spend $1000 on some upgrades/etc., fix it up yourself, and then tell me how much vw sucks...even better, when your honda breaks down or falls apart, whichever comes first, come back here and see how many thousands of us are still driving the hell out of our 20+ year old cars. vw does`nt suck, THE SERVICE AT DEALERSHIPS DOES. my 2 cents.


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## jimix (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: (Hung)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hung* »_I hate VW !!!
My brand-new Golf V 2.0 FSI Automatic with Tiptronic, Every time, I start-up slowly from 1st gear and just shift to 2nd gear automatically,
i send more power to speed-up, at this moment the engine sometime hesitation & out of control more then one second and back to normal smoothly. 


That sounds like every auto I have ever driven. If you start off easy on the gas it is going to shift into second sooner. Then if you floor it, it will downshift, accelerate and then upshift again. Is this your first auto? 
Get used to it or get a stick shift, which is what every VW should have anyway









PAGE TWO OWNED


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## Hung (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: (jimix)*

No, I've 6 years manual Lancer GTi & 7 years Ford Mondeo driving experience & another japan make automatic private car each month!
(Not a knock down & hesitation feeling , is difference)
This is the full story.........
When i send it back to local distributor, technical engineer & service engineer can feel and saw this problem many times with me, they feel there is a serious problem, after road test, they log computer data & send to VM engineer many times, feedback is "normal" and tell me to change my driving behaver to mach the on-board computer !!
The servicing manager tell me "They can do nothing", until global recall !!
I hate it


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## BetterByDesign (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: (jimix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jimix* »_

.... get a stick shift, which is what every VW should have anyway









PAGE TWO OWNED









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
WHY do you folks buy this auto/tiptronic nonsense???







A friend of mine who cannot drive stick had to wait 2 days in Germany for the rental co to even locate an automatic for him. WHYWHYWHYWHYWHY
























_Modified by BetterByDesign at 11:11 AM 3-4-2005_


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## Hung (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: (BetterByDesign)*

The local distributor only import automatic version in Hong Kong, so i had no choice! 
Actually i like Golf V, especially the servotronic steering control system is very very good !!!


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## LaTuFu (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*

After having owned 6 VWs, I can say that unless the current one completely falls apart tomorrow, I will most likely be buying a 7th one.
I did my own work on them in High School and college, as much for fun as to save the money. Now I let the dealer do it, as much for convenience and time as anything else. Kids and real jobs and all that...
Bottom line, they're German cars. You look at any german automobile, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, whoever, if the service manual says do this at 5,000 miles, then that is German for "do this at 5,000 miles". They generally don't tolerate the US attitude of "well, if it says 5,000 it means I can do 8,000". 
I've had window switches go bad in an A2, I've had floor leaks in a Type I, any number of "quality" issues that people gripe about. But they will keep running. My Dad always insisted on getting a GM car. NOTHING on that car worked by the time it hit 70,000. He would borrow my A2 jetta to go to the beach because the air conditioner, 7 years old and no recharge, was cold enough to make him put on a jacket in july. 
Having said that, I am fully aware that no car manufacturer is perfect. They have obviously screwed up something at one point or another. But lets face it, if they were really that bad, there is no way anyone would have bought a second car from them, much less 6.
PS, I guess my dealer is unusual. I get friendly, courteous service, and the one warranty issue I had, they ate the cost of the repair when the warranty company weaseled out of the bill on a technicality. It was an $800 ticket, and they didn't hesitate to stand behind their product. I currently have a nuisance warranty issue on the new Jetta, the passenger mirror cracked, and they very pleasantly ordered a new one. Called me when it came in, too.

















_Modified by 7Hills_Jetta at 10:34 PM 3-4-2005_


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## JWJET1 (May 1, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_With no entry level cars, which are the essence of the people's car company, (Polo and Lupo) and terrible dealers the picture is bleak to say the least.


Haha i love it. Thats deff goin back to the roots of vw.
Lol... why are we complaining, they are gonna me what they are gonna make. Just don't buy one. Get a rabbit, far better off.
J


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## 2003Sport (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: VW will never change (JWJET1)*

Sounds kind of weird that someone would buy SIX Volkswagens in a row and then turn round and say they were no good! 
Most people buy one or at max 2 of something bad before they change. You are the most anti VW VW fanatic I've seen???!!!


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## VWTardis (Jun 27, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (2003Sport)*

Unless I am wrong most of the problems I keep hearing about with vw and quality has nothing to to with build quality but with the quality of parts provided by third party providers.







I talked to a factory rep at a recent auto show here and he said VW is aware of the problem and working to solve it. My guess is it may take a little while because some of the companies providing these parts have multiple year agreements. And yes before anyone says it VW should have done a better job making sure the parts were good in the first place. Having said that I would like to say currently on my 5th vw and my next car in a year or two will likely also be one. The small problems I put up with are balanced out by the overall package and they are just too much fun to drive.








Now, as far as the company forgetting its "peoples car" roots. Lets be realistic it left those behind a long long time ago. One writer eariler called vw the Hyndi of europe. Actually its more like the GM of europe. The last I heard their market share in europe was around 40%. Rememer that VW now includes 7 different car lines ranging from Skoda to Bentley. They have to look at where any particular line fits in the overally package. Just because several of those lines aren't sold in the US dosen't mean they can leave the "VW" line down at the entry level. Especially when they don't even sell all of the models of that line in the US.








I also don't put a lot of stock in the recent reports putting VW down near the bottom of the list in quality. Basically all cars have problems of different types. When you consider that the two cars listed below VW in reported problems were Mercedes and Lincoln Mercury. I don't think we have a lot to worry about.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (VWTardis)*

Although VWoA wishes its brand to be "perceived" as a premium brand it is not, by either the general consumer, or the enthusiast, like those of us on the tex.
VWoA STOP dreaming!!!!!!








With a bad dealer network, lack of product range, and poor customer service the fact is that VW, even in the US is STILL a mid range volume seller. Many who purchase inexpensive VW models are willing to put up with crummy service to get a decent ride, most typical premium buyers are not. The Touareg and Phaetons are tanking with very small sales and frustrated customers. 
VW do what you do best... low and moderatedly priced cars with European character. 
Bring on the Polo and a Lupo GTI model.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re:*

The bloom is off the rose for the German Car Mystique era. It was fun while it lasted; hell, I spent the better part of my 52 years _worshipping at the altar_ of _Deutschwagen_ greatness myself. But, today's nearly totally homogenized/sanitized/technoid-ized/sterilized and INTERNATIONALIZED automobile culture has taken even that most stalwart of individualistic carmaking nations, namely Germany, and reduced even their products to me-too clone-mobiles. 
Grumpy old man? _Hell yes I am_. But am I terribly wrong in spite of myself? _I think not._


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## psychoart (Feb 21, 1999)

*Re: Re: (vwlarry)*

Wow, well put!








But I'm not sure that we are complaining on the same page.
VW has gone berserk, and is totally ignorant. The Jetta just shows where VW stands: no HID as option while Mazda3 has it 1 year ago. But I gonna start shutting my mouth from hereon. I'm switching camp, and VW would have to fetch for more feedbacks elsewhere. Go fetch, VW. Good boy.
+++++++++++++++
That's how reliable I am. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by psychoart at 8:11 PM 3-13-2005_


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## BetterByDesign (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (VWTardis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTardis* »_Unless I am wrong most of the problems I keep hearing about with vw and quality has nothing to to with build quality but with the quality of parts provided by third party providers.









I am so sick of this point.








So WHAT? Someone at VW still made the decision to go with that supplier and the end result it still the same: You are stuck on the side of the road due to a failed, defective inferior part.
To those reps and fans that point out..."You know...that REALLY isnt a VW fault...."
*Yeah. IT IS.*
BetterByDesign


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## PassatB5.5 (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (BetterByDesign)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BetterByDesign* »_
I am so sick of this point.








So WHAT? Someone at VW still made the decision to go with that supplier and the end result it still the same: You are stuck on the side of the road due to a failed, defective inferior part.
To those reps and fans that point out..."You know...that REALLY isnt a VW fault...."
*Yeah. IT IS.*


Agreed. I think the big problem here as well, is that VW moves slower than blippen molasses. They don't want to acknowledge their problems and then have to have the gun put to their heads before they decide to do anything. Don't get me started on service issues. I've had my car for 4 years and kept hearing "things will change, the dealers will get better", blah blah blah. As the saying goes, **** or get off the pot. Well, in 2 more years (unless I have a major problem), this car is history and so is VW. I gave them a chance and they blew it. I don't need to buy 6 cars to figure it out. And yes, I'm defecting to boring Honda. Boring, I'll get service on the rare times I need to bring it in, Honda.












_Modified by PassatB5.5 at 8:39 PM 3-14-2005_


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## mayte (Sep 29, 2001)

*Re: VW will never change (VWTardis)*

"Unless I am wrong most of the problems I keep hearing about with vw and quality has nothing to to with build quality but with the quality of parts provided by third party providers."
Sorry to say you are wrong . Reading the posts on VW sites indicates that lousy dealer service is a large part of their problem . Mix that with questionable quality control and you have the mess VW is in now .


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (mayte)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mayte* »_"Unless I am wrong most of the problems I keep hearing about with vw and quality has nothing to to with build quality but with the quality of parts provided by third party providers."
Sorry to say you are wrong . Reading the posts on VW sites indicates that lousy dealer service is a large part of their problem . Mix that with questionable quality control and you have the mess VW is in now .









THANK YOU MAYTE!!!!!! 
I have been harping on this issue for many many years, and have actually applied to work at VWoA.... Have I ever heard ONE word in reply to my professional interest?.........NEVER!!!........Enough said as to whether VWoA wants to make changes to succeed.
VW.... enthusiasts NOT wanted.


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_
VW.... enthusiasts NOT wanted.









considering you constantly post negative drivel on the most prolific VW message board in the US it isn't suprising.
Negative attitudes reflect on negative work ethic.


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## slowgreenjetta (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (Nazareth33)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nazareth33* »_I bought my '04 Jetta GLS for the _exact same _price my fiance paid for her '04 Corolla S. 

Which car would _you_ rather drive?

I agree the Jetta is more pleasing to the eye and more luxurious but wait awhile and see which car is the "better" deal. just my $.02


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## slowgreenjetta (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: (BetterByDesign)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BetterByDesign* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
WHY do you folks buy this auto/tiptronic nonsense???







A friend of mine who cannot drive stick had to wait 2 days in Germany for the rental co to even locate an automatic for him. WHYWHYWHYWHYWHY























_Modified by BetterByDesign at 11:11 AM 3-4-2005_

I totally agree, the tiptronic is like Virtual Stick. I think most people don't realize that the advantage and fun from driving a stick is not the just the ability to manually select gears but engaging a manual clutch that allows you to do more than a tiptronic. I have driven a Mercedes with a tiptronic, it felt so unnatural and just kept going back to the "D" mode. I dont get it if you want a stick BUY THE STICK DUHHHHHH


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## YellerVR698 (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: (slowgreenjetta)*

George,
I've owned the following:
- 84 Nissan Stanza auto
- 91 Honda Accord EX 5 speed
- 91 Honda Prelude SI 5 speed
- 91 Acura Legend L coupe auto
- 95 Honda Accord EX 5 speed(still own it - wife's)
As a side note, one of my brothers currently owns a 98 Acura RL, and I have another brother who currently owns a 2001 Acura CL type S. In addition, my mother recently purchased a Toyota Avalon (2004 model year). I've driven them all.
These were all great cars. Very reliable. But they were missing something...they were not very exciting to drive (aside from the Prelude). They served 1 purpose: moving my @ss from point A to point B, and they did that very well, however, I'm a greedy S0B and wanted more. So in 98 I bought a brand new GTI VR6 (Driver's Edition). Absolutely loved that car. It was every bit as fun to drive as my Prelude and did a better job in the snow ;-)
Last April I purchased my current ride, a deep blue pearl R32. This car simply obliterates every car listed above in every area that is important to me. That's key; dont misread it. Your needs and wants will differ from that of your peers (particularly members of this forum). You may not give a dayum (mispelled, yes, I know) about the fun-factor (read: accord auto), but most vortex members do. This is where VW really shines.

_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_No comparison in quality workmanship.

I will disagree with you on this point. All of the cars listed above feel "cheap" when compared to the 2 VW's i've owned (save the Acura..these truely are great cars). Everything about the accord (seats, dash, doors, etc) are not on the same quality level as my R32. Plastic is painted with chrome paint and chips away as time passes. I've cut my hand on this more than once. Seats are flat and hard. Hood, doors, and trunk feel "tinny". The VW is just solid. Doors close with a deep "THUD". Pedals, shifter, e-brake are all all on a much higher quality level.

_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_You can't compare a Jetta to an Accord.

Again, I disagree. You certainly can compare the two. I (and I would dare say that most reading this) would choose a GLI to an Accord 9 times out of 10.
If you like your accord, great. I'm glad you're happy with it, but it's probably not a good idea to post on the vortex telling everyone that they have an inferior product. That simply isn't true...and I think you know it otherwise you wouldnt be here.


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## Tuxedo (May 30, 2000)

*Re: (YellerVR698)*

I agree with you. I'm an Accord V6 owner who previously owned two VWs. I'll be going back to VW. My Accord is a great car and I love it. However, I find myself gravitating back to VW due to the driveability and fun factor.


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## carnutchuck (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (Nazareth33)*

Which car would you rather _drive_?


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (Corradodrvrfnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradodrvrfnd* »_
considering you constantly post negative drivel on the most prolific VW message board in the US it isn't suprising.
Negative attitudes reflect on negative work ethic.











Corradodrvrfnd said:


> Interesting although I am very matter of fact about problems that need addressing in the workplace, and some may be put off, I have NEVER been seen as a slacker when it comes to producing, even by my harshest critics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## BloodRedRado (Jan 31, 2005)

As far as VWoA quality control is concerned, the general buying public does not see nor care that it was a _*non-VW*_ part that failed and left them stranded. All they know or care is that their VOLKSWAGEN broke down. 
For many people, the reliability factor is more important than the fun factor. Especially in this day and age of 1 hour+ commutes to work. Not everyone can afford a car for weekend fun and a reliable car for daily commutes. VW used to fit the bill as one car that filled two needs. Not any more.
I want both in one car, and see no reason to settle for anything less. My next fun car is going to be an S2000...fun, fast and RELIABLE. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by BloodRedRado at 8:55 PM 3-22-2005_


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## cvig (Mar 14, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*

I agree with you (that they need to address problems) but do you really think you can change things without being in Germany/Europe? Isn't VW here in America really just a gussied up marketing group? I see it that way but maybe I'm wrong.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (cvig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cvig* »_I agree with you (that they need to address problems) but do you really think you can change things without being in Germany/Europe? Isn't VW here in America really just a gussied up marketing group? I see it that way but maybe I'm wrong.

Many of the biggest problems that affect VW here in the US and Canada ARE due to the way the distributor (VWoA) handles them. Customer service for one, dealership competence is another, not to mention that VWoA has big say in the models that are offered for sale here. Like the bringing the disastrious Phaeton instead of a new affordable people's car like the Polo. Most here forget about the huge (costly) service infrastructure needed to maintain the just the Phaeton.


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## cvig (Mar 14, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*


_Quote »_Many of the biggest problems that affect VW here in the US and Canada ARE due to the way the distributor (VWoA) handles them. Customer service for one, dealership competence is another, not to mention that VWoA has big say in the models that are offered for sale here. Like the bringing the disastrious Phaeton instead of a new affordable people's car like the Polo. Most here forget about the huge (costly) service infrastructure needed to maintain the just the Phaeton.

Based on VWoA's track record I don't think they are changing anytime soon. VWoD can force VWoA to change. I wouldn't bet it's going to get better any other way but I would be happy to be wrong.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (cvig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cvig* »_
Based on VWoA's track record I don't think they are changing anytime soon. VWoD can force VWoA to change. I wouldn't bet it's going to get better any other way but I would be happy to be wrong.

You are probably correct. I have been harping on these issues for YEARS with VWoA. Problem is that many of the staff at VWoa are probably castoffs from the big three in Detroit.
I would say that overall VWoA is probably the worst car distributor in the US today.
Another example of the idiocy at VWoA is the introduction of the A5 Jetta. They delay introduction of the stick models, and at first only bring in loaded models with HUGE price tags!!!. STOOPID ,just plain stoopid! VW is not a luxury car brand...damn dim wits!










_Modified by golf strom at 3:50 PM 3-23-2005_


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fu Hok* »_I like your name. It means small doll in Greek.
All I'm saying is that if you want to compete in this price market then there's no room for error. Both the Phaeton and the Touraeg. I'm sure the Jetta is going up there as well as the Passat.


And you are assuming that a Phaeton owner has to even deal with the service dept. When that car needs scheduled maintenance they call their Phaeton rep at the dealer who picks up their car and drops off a loaner (usually another Phaeton) for their use. He/she doesn't need to go to the service dept. if they don't want to.
This is great service in my book, and I'm content to drop my car off in the morining unnanounced, they shuttle me to work, and I pick up the car in the afternoon. You say the service is the same from 86? Did you still buy and service from the same dealer? if you did then it's your fault your encouraging them. Service varies from dealer to dealer, some places are good some aren't. 
Everyone keeps saying that the Phaeton is a mistake, if the Phaeton goes, then that type of service won't trickle down to the other cars in the line-up. The Phaeton is built to order, they will get built for the most part as dealers need them, and the Dresden plant is well suited to build other VAG cars in that plant, there's talk of moving some Bentley production there.


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_You are probably correct. I have been harping on these issues for YEARS with VWoA. Problem is that many of the staff at VWoa are probably castoffs from the big three in Detroit.
I would say that overall VWoA is probably the worst car distributor in the US today.
Another example of the idiocy at VWoA is the introduction of the A5 Jetta. They delay introduction of the stick models, and at first only bring in loaded models with HUGE price tags!!!. STOOPID ,just plain stoopid! VW is not a luxury car brand...damn dim wits!









_Modified by golf strom at 3:50 PM 3-23-2005_
 I agree that VWoA needs some rectifying.
Automatics appeal to the larger buyer base than do manuals, the general consumer base far outweighs the enthusiast base. go look at the number of Jetta IVs out there, and see if the grand percentile aren't autos. what are you griping about, by summer time the GLIs will be out. along with the manuals on the rest of the Jettas. were you seriously thinking of getting one?


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (gizmopop)*

Gizmo:

The fact is I have been a long time member of the VW family. Along with that relationship has been the joy of owning characterful, fun to drive cars, which for the most part have been reliable as well. I am not actually thinking about my own personal experiences however, I'm thinking about the viability of the distributor (VWoA) and their ability to be successful in the NA market.
Again with the Phaeton, a car the US/CDN market simply will not and has not accepted, and along with this costly mistake has come a expensive proposition for the VW dealers, the cost of maintaining a few Phaeton customers with the extravagant service infrastructure is irrational and counterproductive to the health of the company and sales outlets. 
The A5 Jetta....the fact that a big manufacturer cannot deliver a few manual units (tried and tested better than the electronic auto has been) in the production mix at introduction is just inexcusable, it really is, there are enough potential buyers for this car that the few stick cars would have sold right away... remember the manual is cheaper as well. The Jetta is looked at as a bit of a sporty car, even in base trim, in the USA and Canada, so not to have that option is a folly.
Also bringing in only loaded units at introduction is crazy for sure as most Jetta buyers are looking for a bit of a poor mans BMW, so price is important.
The GLI is a clearly expensive proposition and frankly I don't think it will be selling as well this generation. VW has priced itself out of its market. The biggest question is where is VWoA people's car? (The Polo sedan) The First generation Jetta was a great alternative to the low priced Japanese competition that is why it sold and until the last generation it continued in that spirit. That situation is clearly not the case today.
VWoA must come down off its high horse and remember what made it a somewhat successful company in the first place, and that was not selling "me-too" mobiles like the Touareg and sadly the new and over priced Jetta. Time will tell of course, if I am wrong. But I really doubt it. Oh yes where is the A5 Golf? Two years too late, without an ability to market it properly just like always.




_Modified by golf strom at 10:33 AM 3-24-2005_


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_Gizmo:

The fact is I have been a long time member of the VW family. Along with that relationship has been the joy of owning characterful, fun to drive cars, which for the most part have been reliable as well. I am not actually thinking about my own personal experiences however, I'm thinking about the viability of the distributor (VWoA) and their ability to be successful in the NA market.


I said I agreed that they are doing some things wrong, I don't agree with all of the points you specified however.

_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_
Again with the Phaeton, a car the US/CDN market simply will not and has not accepted, and along with this costly mistake has come a expensive proposition for the VW dealers, the cost of maintaining a few Phaeton customers with the extravagant service infrastructure is irrational and counterproductive to the health of the company and sales outlets. 

 Ok the issue that is most indicated as VWs problem long before the Phaeton has been dealership service. The number of posts/thread heres about bad dealer service far outweigh those of good service. That would indicate that that is a priority for VW to fix. Now VW is doing something about it, the Phaeton has the service I describe a few posts above, on the technical side that service includes hooking up a computer that is in direct contact to the engineers back in Germany. That should start being applied to the new lineup as it comes out. I'm sorry but I got to believe that the guys that built the car have more insight into its repair than the typical guys that service them (not to say that all service technicians are bad or do not know what they are doing) 
More than a few people have left VW because they were dissapointed/frustrated with the service or lack there of they received, bad service kills repeat sales and word of mouth sales. You kill those sales and VWs don't sell because you need ti drive them in order to appreciate them. This was happening long before the Phaeton or Toaureg showed up.

_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_
The A5 Jetta....the fact that a big manufacturer cannot deliver a few manual units (tried and tested better than the electronic auto has been) in the production mix at introduction is just inexcusable, it really is, there are enough potential buyers for this car that the few stick cars would have sold right away... remember the manual is cheaper as well. The Jetta is looked at as a bit of a sporty car, even in base trim, in the USA and Canada, so not to have that option is a folly.


The manual option is on the build page at VW.com I haven't seen any reason or statement of a delayed intro. (I know the GLI will come with a manual and DSG optional, and will be released later this year) Maybe some one with VW connections can chime in on this? I can see where this would deter a potential buyer, but I know that at the beginning they are seeking those gotta be first to drive it customers. I do believe most average customers will go for the auto first in the U.S.

_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_
Also bringing in only loaded units at introduction is crazy for sure as most Jetta buyers are looking for a bit of a poor mans BMW, so price is important.
The GLI is a clearly expensive proposition and frankly I don't think it will be selling as well this generation. VW has priced itself out of its market. The biggest question is where is VWoA people's car? (The Polo sedan) The First generation Jetta was a great alternative to the low priced Japanese competition that is why it sold and until the last generation it continued in that spirit. That situation is clearly not the case today.


They know that there are those first buyers out there. Typically these people will pay MSRP for the "privilege" to be the first ones with the car. Car makers know this. There were nicely equipped models with the brushed metal trim and the leatherette seats (I think they were leatherette, couldn't tell/forgot to look at the specs) sitting at the dealer for $23K+ MSRP . They had some baser models which were still a very nice place to be for $20K+ 
The GLI will flop only if it's too expensive, but I don't think it's going to be to far off from the MKIV GLI. I expect it at $24K We are supposedly getting the GTI for a similar price to the MK IV GTI so I can't see the GTI with trunk for much more.
I like the new Polo, and I hope VW brings it over, you guys should start a poll or something...

_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_
VWoA must come down off its high horse and remember what made it a somewhat successful company in the first place, and that was not selling "me-too" mobiles like the Touareg and sadly the new and over priced Jetta. Time will tell of course, if I am wrong. But I really doubt it. Oh yes where is the A5 Golf? Two years too late, without an ability to market it properly just like always.


What made them special was cars that don't follow convention. Cars that offer you more than what others do for a lot less. I don't think the Touareg is a me too mobile. I hate SUVs, but this is the only one I would consider driving, because it is a VW. Was it wrong for VW to bring it out? Heck no, for some strange reason SUVs are loved here in the U.S. they make alot of money. making $$ is what VW is in business for.
As for being on a high horse, is VW in a box? can they only sell cars from $ 10K-$30K? what about those people who love VW's grew up with VWs but didn't have a VW model in the higher price range? There are people who did just that, buy VW all their life, didn't have a VW to buy in the upper price range, went with another German make because they like German engineering, and have found that the grass isn't always greener over there. and with cars like the Phaeton and the Toaureg , they've come back.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (gizmopop)*

I take your observations with due consideration. You make some valid points yet I still feel the investment in a uber level of (extreme service) for Phaeton customers while letting the Jetta and Golf customer hang out to dry is condesending to say the least. The Phaeton is a grave mistake and should have never been brought to the US market.
Most VW customers that have been in the fold for awhile and are earning enough to buy a premium luxury car, are educated enough about the brand that they know where to go....right across the showroom floor to Audi. After all most of the monied VW folks usually have a VW and an Audi. Audi is owned by VW.
VWoA made the dealers throw money at fancy buldings instead of investing in the competence and profressionalism of the staff. It should be substance over show when it comes to the customer support issue. Not to mention it prevents smaller markets from being able to afford a franchise.


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_I take your observations with due consideration. You make some valid points yet I still feel the investment in a uber level of (extreme service) for Phaeton customers while letting the Jetta and Golf customer hang out to dry is condesending to say the least. The Phaeton is a grave mistake and should have never been brought to the US market.
.
 
The extreme service is a step in the right direction, that service should trickle down to the rest of the lineup. I don't see the Phaeton as a grave mistake...sorry that's my opinion.

_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_
Most VW customers that have been in the fold for awhile and are earning enough to buy a premium luxury car, are educated enough about the brand that they know where to go....right across the showroom floor to Audi. After all most of the monied VW folks usually have a VW and an Audi. Audi is owned by VW.


That's the problem though, they aren't, sales trends show they go to BMW.


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## gregg3gs (May 15, 2004)

I have never had any problem with service on my 01 golf or 01 jetta when I had them. I live in Atlanta, GA area and have purchased both cars at Dwight Harrison VW. Great people and great service. I now owe 93 passat and still like the people that work there. I find them very felpfull. As far as a price of parts. Yes they are expensive but I am still to find a car that feels as good as a vw (I have not had a audi and bmw, those are next) I also do most of my work myself.
Now when I was in Charlstone, SC and my front bearing went out I was very disapointed in their service. No parts to do the job... what service are you?
Over all I am happy with guy in the ATL area.
3gs


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## 2beirish (Apr 28, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (gregg3gs)*

Poor service in bad dealerships is the metaphor for a company that isn't doing ther job. If VWOA ISN'T looking at the high number of complaints in this forum and using it as a theme for the relationship with avid and willing to buy enthusiasts they're sounding their own death knell. I just sold my 03 Jetta wagon because of the atrocious service and the narcissistic inadequacies of the two dealers I used. The VW dealers in Walnut Creek and Eureka, CA were unbelievably bad: condescending, uninterested in listening to informed information about the problems and dishonest, especially in Eureka. The willingness to be dishonest ended my wish to ever buy from VW again, despite my excitement about the inherent goodness of the Jetta wagon. I bought a 1988 BMW 325iS to replace the wagon: a 17 year old car with better chassis dynamics and a superior engine to a 2 year old car. Ridiculous.


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## Vr6 Cutie (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (2beirish)*

I live in the northeast and am a victim to the pitfalls of volkswagen service. I understand that I don't own a Bentley, but the amount of disregard to the customers at these dealerships is amazing. VW's are people who are loyal to the brand, what about the company and the loyalty to their customers. VW's may not be luxury cars, but they sure do charge luxury prices for maintenance.


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## fockewulf (Mar 6, 2005)

Find an independent repair shop that specializes in german cars...they'll treat you right...


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## vwdude53 (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: (fockewulf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fockewulf* »_Find an independent repair shop that specializes in german cars...they'll treat you right...

i agree completely! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i have relatives down in Appleton & Caroline Wisconsin who have car garages. they specialize in repairing Audis & VWs, and so many people tell them what great service they (my relatives) give them. the customers keep coming back & are buying their used VWs/Audis!
yeah, they'll treat you right!










_Modified by vwdude53 at 11:07 PM 3-30-2005_


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## Vr6 Cutie (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (vwdude53)*

That's probably what I'll do next time ( if I don't get rid of my car by then)...thanks for the tips


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## Windsor_Blue (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (Vr6 Cutie)*

Exactly, i know just what your talking about. If you check out http://www.poster-station.com than you will see what i mean. They have some of the best inforamation on this topic available.


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## Scirocco61 (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (Windsor_Blue)*

You know, I've owned many MANY cars in the year ranges from 85-95. Toyotas, Hondas, Acuras, VWs, Chevys, Fords and I have been the most happy with my VW's. Granted they have their problems, but every manufacturer does. But when I have an issue with my dub, the parts are cheap and easy to get AND easy to fix. I had my 90 Golf that I bought as a commuter, I wasen't easy on this car. I paid $300 for it, put 25,000 miles on it and then the heater core decided to part ways. But$300 for 8 months that I've had the car is $37 a month, compaired to the average car payment which is $350. Now I got a 1996 Jetta dropped on 17's with a monza cat-back. I'min this car for under $1k Including buying the car. IT's got the ABA 2L and they have got to be one of the easiest engines I've worked on. But if I were to buy a vehicle brand new, it wouldnt be a dub, it would be a Silverado.


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## nathandavid88 (Dec 1, 2003)

I must say that i am a VW fan, and although i don't own a car (don't have a licence yet) i do no a bit about the happening of the car world. 
Now, i hear that many people are complaining about the unreliability of their VW, u have to put it in perspective that VW hasn't yet had to have a 1.3million car recall like mercedes benz just recently announced on top end E and S class models! When it comes to most cars, there are always ones that will prove to be ultra reliable, some that are average (some faults, but farily decent) and some lemons! It's like my mum's 1993 Nissan Pulsar hatch, named car of the year here in australia, it has been reasonable, but with some persistant electrical problems. However, i have heard of ppl who own the same car and have had no big problems, and some that have tons of problems.
VW seems to be pretty decent overall, especially compaired to some of the **** we have in Australia.
Secondly, i know what u are saying about VWoA's attitude, and that of their dealers. Generally, they tread customers like ****, and VW AG knows it! Word on the street is that after the big loss VWoA posted last year, things over there are headed for a big shake up, with numerous heads said to be close to the chopping block. And to top it all off, VW will then be send ing altamatums to all of their dealers; "shape up or ship off" i believe is the offical line. VW does have problems at the moment, but things are being fixed...slowly (VERY slowly) but surely.
Finally, i just wanna say that although VW's roots are as a people's car maker, it can no longer make cars for that part of the market, because in Europe (VW's predominant market) it would result in taking sales from Skoda and SEAT, VW group companies that have that part of the market. And it was found to be easier to move VW a little more upmarket, than it was to move both SEAT, but ESPECIALLY Skoda, VW's Hyundai/Kia competitor!


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## unixgolf (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (Fu Hok)*

I'm giving up as well, Here is my background : Honda 1500GL 1982, Chevrolet Cavalier (7 months), VW-Fox, VW-Jetta 1991 (still own the car), Jetta 1998 (2 years), Passat (2 years), Audi a4 1.8tQ 2001(4 years) : still own the car.
I know VW/Audi service and you'd better have a good "business" relation with the dealer. I was offered 3K$ on a new a4 but turn it down, I was not interested in their latest offerings. I asked them to give me an additional waranty free but they turned me down. Now I'm looking at two things a Ford escape AWD and a mustang GT 300hp. for 36K$ CAN that'sreally good
I could expand a lot more but I'll stop here. I might look at VW whenever they come out with a sporty small suv or something like Polo or Fox as a second car.
What I like from audi is the AWD. I do not mind paying for a car but just look @the mustang for instance and add to it ESP and you have something very close in perfrormance to an M3 or S4 for 1/2 the price ...
I'll see
_Modified by unixgolf at 11:24 AM 4-3-2005_


_Modified by unixgolf at 12:12 PM 4-3-2005_


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (unixgolf)*

The best hope at VWoA is that they will install "car" guys like they did back in 1982 with the release of the A1 Rabbit GTI, VWoA just barely saved their own asses.
The tragic thing is that there are so many passionate car ppl "not just enthusiast models" of VWs that it is impossible to see why the Germans did not look to texers to help the success of the failing distributor. It is NOT only about profit when it comes to a company like VW. It is also about passion and heritage. Unlike Toyota or Honda. Also, the fact is that VW is a volume car maker thats products are only a slight step up from GM, Ford and Toyota, nothing more! It doesn't mean that they are not good products, yet they are NOT premium cars. They don't have the infracture or quality of people to commit to that end of the market, nor should they bother. Leave that to Audi. 
Fact is that if I had been CEO of VWoA over the past decade the company would have the cars that the NEED to succeed yesterday, today, and into the future in the USA. Sure the profitablilty might not be as high as possible, however we are interested in the long term viability of the company....right?
Now with gas prices headed towards 4 dollars per gallon we would have had the Polo, and the fantastic little Lupo. Unfortunately the castaways at VWoA simply did NOT have the vision to look into the future.








Note to VW AG.....hire vwlarry and me.















In Europe the current rethink at VW AG is that the company must go back to its roots and strengthen its "people's cars". The big selling Polo has been refreshed, with a totally new Polo 2007, and the new Lupo is on the way in 2007. VW is NOT leaving the affordable car segement. If anything they are recommiting to it.



_Modified by golf strom at 3:53 PM 4-3-2005_


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## Axel1 (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (2beirish)*

I've never owned a VW, but am excited about the midengine Concept R coming out in '07. I have to admit, reading this forum and the J.D. Power and Associates "2003 Customer Service Index (CSI) Study" below on Dealer Maintenance and Repair Services, it does make you wonder if the inherent fun and excitement of a model makes up for the likelihood of problems with the average VW dealer out there when it comes time for maintenance and repairs.
Only Daewoo, Isuzu, Suzuki, and Kia ranked lower than VW in customer satisfaction with dealer services. Of course this particular study didn't measure how well engineered or problem-free the car was in the first place, or the customers overall satisfaction with the car... *just the satisfaction with dealer services*.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Re:*

Over the past many months, I've elaborated and bloviated on my point-of-view toward what is happening to Volkswagen in America to the point of being acutely aware that many of your eyes are _glazing over_ at the first sight of my _next_ pontification.








So, that being said, allow me to _pontificate_ one more time.







I'll keep it short, 'promise. I merely want to say that, for many many years, people have joked about me that, upon making my acquaintance, if you haven't heard about my love for VWs in the first five minutes of conversation, then you damned well _will_ hear about it before the _sixth_ minute expires.








Now, if someone like a VW-_goof_ like me is turning his back on Volkswagen, then maybe, just _maybe_, something is going wrong; dreadfully wrong, at VWoA. 
Or maybe it's just me.


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## unixgolf (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*

A lack of vision, right on !!! You should see the amount of toyota echo, hyndai and what not !!! we have here and stilll , get a fully equipped Golf or Jetta and it'll be close to 30K$ can ... This is why I'm holding on to my good-ol jetta Wolfsburg ... 186,000 km on it. But I'd be delighted to buy a Polo they are small and make excellent city cars. VW is loosing market big time. I can understand that the canadian market is nowhere near the US market , but even Smart is available here but not in the US. VW listen up.


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## 2beirish (Apr 28, 2004)

*Re: VW will never change (unixgolf)*

I think it IS a lack of vision: an unwillingness to change business practices that are no longer working. VW is a conservative company that moves a huge amount of money around every year, especially in Europe, but I don't believe they've ever made a concerted effort to understand the American market. I spoke with a new & young sales person in a brand new VW dealership this morning about VW bringing in more 4Motion/AWD cars in addition to the Passat 4Motion. He stated that in training he received that VW said that AWD/4Motion is a niche market: that not enough cars would be sold to justify the development and D.O.T. smogging costs. When I stated that he should check out enthusiast VW sites like this one to get a better idea of what enthusiasts WANT he wasn't too interested. Odd. I recently left the VW market after only 15 months with my Jetta 1.8T wagon because of poor customer service, but the ONLY thing that would bring me back to VW would be a sporty AWD Jetta/Golf/or wagon with some horsepower and handling that wasn't an understeering nightmare. A 4Motion 2.0T with a 6 speed and chassis balance would probably result in BOTH me and my wife buying new VWs. But they're not going to market a car like that, or a sporty Polo, or anything else I want. So I'll stick with my 17 year old BMW 325iS: a chassis and engine that works very well, a clutch that's sufficient for the power with great feel, predictable handling transitions, good gas mileage, and some evidence of creative thinking.


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## unixgolf (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (2beirish)*

Look at the A3 coming soon, the first release will not be AWD ... what's the point, the strenght of audi is AWD. Audi's edge (property of VW-AG)is starting to fade as the competition is providing it more and more.
Look at torsen.com under /applications you'll learn that a lot of company are using it : Hummer, Toyota Rav4, BMW z8. Now look at bosch.com (press release) and ESP will be in Ford suv as of 2006. All the german applications that I like and use are starting to appear in the competition. For now, if you want awd, you have to look into suv or luxury sedan.
Advice: if you want quality vw's buy the "wolfsburg" edition, as they are build in germany, nothing against mexico but it is not at par with wolfsburg.
Canada and northern US experience tons of snow so the thinking for not providing awd is irrelevant, there is no will form VW's part.
As I mentionned before, I'm starting to look very seriously into Ford , the ideal would be a Ford Escape (v6 awd with ESP) from oct 1- apr 1 and then a mustang GT during spring,summer and automn. It may sound bizarre but I rented an Escape for a couple of days and I was impressed, you can park this thing on a dime, and awd is just efficient, now what's missing is ESP but that's coming in 2006... and I tested a 2005 mustang, and I luv IT.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (unixgolf)*

Unixgolf,
Don't be fooled by the "wolfsburg" model designation.. The last several generations of Jetta and Golf for the NA market have been built in Mexico.
With a few exceptions and they were mostly 6 cylinder models that were built in the Vaterland.


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## unixgolf (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*

Wow I did not no that, something to worry about , mine was made in germany in april 1991 !!! I still have the original sticker in the trunk. of the car.
Bye


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

"_Wolfsburg_" is nothing more than a badge on a fender now. 
VW, in future years, I'm afraid, is simply going to reap that which they have sown, at least in America.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (vwlarry)*

Also Jetta wagons come from Germany at this time. This will probably change as I don't believe there is a plan for a Jetta wagon in the new model.


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## bigerikt (Apr 4, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (2beirish)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2beirish* »_VW is a conservative company that moves a huge amount of money around every year, especially in Europe, but I don't believe they've ever made a concerted effort to understand the American market.

This is probably the most accurate statement about VW, the World's fourth largest auto manufacturer. VW isn't Hyundai or GM in Europe, VW is almost GM and Ford combined. 
I have a '98 Passat that I take to the dealer when I am unable, or afraid, to attempt repairs on my own. I have had good and bad experiences. I communicated both types to the dealers, and went to another VW dealer. I have been to the same dealer now for the last few times and am quite happy.
From reading these posts, I get the impression that some of you aren't happy with the car, service, but love the car too much to walk away. Quit playing Hamlet and take action. I doubt very much that the readers of this forum can make any changes. Tell the company how you feel (800)822-8987.


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## unixgolf (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (bigerikt)*

I sent an e-mail in germany asking to bring the Polo over here and here is the answer. From what I read VWofA or VWofCanada are the ones that decides will model they bring.
Thank you for your enquiry and your interest in our products.
Our importers, and not VOLKSWAGEN AG, are the contacts concerning sale
of our products abroad. In your country please contact the following company
Volkswagen Canada Inc.
777 Bayly Street West
AJAX, Ontario LIS 7G7
Kanada
Tel.: 0 514 331 0847
Our importers decide on their own which Volkswagen models to market in
their region. They also decide about options and special features for that
country based on their market expertise and experience with certain models.
Yours sincerely,
i.V. Michelina Lauriola Maenza i.V. Solen Troadec
Volkswagen AG
38436 Wolfsburg
Tel +49 (0) 1805 865579*
Fax +49 (0) 1805 329865*
Mail to [email protected]
Homepage http://www.volkswagen.de


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_Also Jetta wagons come from Germany at this time. This will probably change as I don't believe there is a plan for a Jetta wagon in the new model.

It was mentioned somewhere else on the Tex that VW indeed plans on a wagon, but it won't be a Jetta in name...there will also be a Passat wagon...


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (unixgolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *unixgolf* »_I sent an e-mail in germany asking to bring the Polo over here and here is the answer. From what I read VWofA or VWofCanada are the ones that decides will model they bring.
Our importers, and not VOLKSWAGEN AG, are the contacts concerning sale
of our products abroad. In your country please contact the following company
Volkswagen Canada Inc.
777 Bayly Street West
AJAX, Ontario LIS 7G7
Kanada
Tel.: 0 514 331 0847
Our importers decide on their own which Volkswagen models to market in
their region. They also decide about options and special features for that
country based on their market expertise and experience with certain models.
Yours sincerely,
i.V. Michelina Lauriola Maenza i.V. Solen Troadec



BINGO!
Thanks Unixgolf!
You know the board operator has always told me that it was the manufacturer VW AG that dictated which models were chosen to be sold in the US and Canada and that VWoA was at the "mercy" of the Vaterland, but this proves where the decisions are made, at VWoA of course! I knew it!
So many times Jamie has told me, "no it is up to VW AG to decide whether or not the Polo is sold in the US." Haha now we know this is a lie apparently.
Jamie if you are reading this thread what do you have to say about the comments of the manufacturer, they are not LYING, are they? 
I love the comment about the importers (VWoA) "expertise". That is rich indeed . About the only expertise VWoA has is driving VW out of the US.








VWoA is the genius behind the idiocy.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 



_Modified by golf strom at 10:55 PM 4-5-2005_


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golf strom* »_
BINGO!
Thanks Unixgolf!
You know the board operator has always told me that it was the manufacturer VW AG that dictated which models were chosen to be sold in the US and Canada and that VWoA was at the "mercy" of the Vaterland, but this proves where the decisions are made, at VWoA of course! I knew it!
So many times Jamie has told me, "no it is up to VW AG to decide whether or not the Polo is sold in the US." Haha now we know this is a lie apparently.
Jamie if you are reading this thread what do you have to say about the comments of the manufacturer, they are not LYING, are they? 
I love the comment about the importers (VWoA) "expertise". That is rich indeed . About the only expertise VWoA has is driving VW out of the US.








VWoA is the genius behind the idiocy.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

_Modified by golf strom at 10:55 PM 4-5-2005_

While VWOA has the final say - VW group in germany sets the prices.
Do you remember in late 2001 when the Eurovan was delayed 9 months with the 24 valve VR6? That was because VAG wanted the price to be so high we would have been laughed out of the us.
So, you can blame germany for asking ridiculous prices for a low volume unit, like the polo, lupo, eurovan, etc...
when VWG decides they appreciate the 6% of worldwide sales VWOA provides them, we can complain about VWOA deciding not to import cars, but until then, it's vw groups problem.


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (Corradodrvrfnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradodrvrfnd* »_
While VWOA has the final say - VW group in germany sets the prices.
Do you remember in late 2001 when the Eurovan was delayed 9 months with the 24 valve VR6? That was because VAG wanted the price to be so high we would have been laughed out of the us.
So, you can blame germany for asking ridiculous prices for a low volume unit, like the polo, lupo, eurovan, etc...
when VWG decides they appreciate the 6% of worldwide sales VWOA provides them, we can complain about VWOA deciding not to import cars, but until then, it's vw groups problem.

You sight an example which involves a poor exchange rate issue, ok. I can understand that, however....... the fact remains that the Polo, being built in a exchange rate friendly country like Brasil, I'm certain that price point was not a factor. Not only that but I am sure that the Brasilians are more than happy to increase production at their facilities as they are not even close to full capacity and volume equals $$$ when it comes to the vehicles like the Polo.
My guess is that VWoA has the final say without price being a factor and they blew it! With gas prices soaring higher and NO entry level priced vehicle the Polo fit the bill perfectly. And VWoA missed again!


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*

actually, you must be misinformed -
The Eurovan issue I mentioned happened long before the exchange rate was an issue.
The simple fact is that a low volume model like the Eurovan, Polo, Lupo, etc.. have much higher profit margins for Volkswagen as a company in Europe, than if they sell them to VWOA to import to the US. An even better example is touareg TDI which sells for quite a bit more in Europe, and was suddenly "discontinued" at least for this year in the US.
So, VW Germany hikes the prices to the distributor to make up the loss of profit. 
You of all people should know that to compete you have to be talking about a low price on an entry level model - would you buy a $18,000 Polo?


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## unixgolf (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (Corradodrvrfnd)*

Car companies make profits a lot on high end luxury cars. Look at the amount of Mercedez, BMW , audi ,porsche. Where VW stands is in the entry level market, in Europe, it is volume , look at the amount of Golfs made over time (many millions). Now as far as paying 18,000 $ for a Polo, I'd willing to pay it given, good solid technology. I was just reading about a VW Fox and it can be configured with ABS,ESP and traction control. Now that's what I like about it. Here in montreal , for a fully equipped toyota echo or huyndai it close to 15-25K$ CAN. Plus the fact that here 50% of the cars here are compacts, should ring a bell to VWoA. 
The dilema VW faces is this: They want to change their image, as they bought Audi, Bentley , Lamborgini , companies known for luxury and performance they want to infuse these images and perception INTO the VW brand. It is a wrong approach, it does not work this way VW owns these companies and profits they make. VW does not want to be perceived ,at least in Amercia ,as volume but prestige and that's a problem. Once VW knows and understands what it wants.
At one point I was thinking, VW should disolve Audi, absord the people and projects, and create VW-A4 etc... They are importing so much technology from audi. But you know what now, I would propose VW the opposite, VW should disolve itself in America into Audi, Bentley and instantly get the image they want.

Crazy isn't it.

_Modified by unixgolf at 12:35 PM 4-6-2005_

_Modified by unixgolf at 12:37 PM 4-6-2005_


_Modified by unixgolf at 12:43 PM 4-6-2005_


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: VW will never change (Corradodrvrfnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradodrvrfnd* »_actually, you must be misinformed -
The Eurovan issue I mentioned happened long before the exchange rate was an issue.
The simple fact is that a low volume model like the Eurovan, Polo, Lupo, etc.. have much higher profit margins for Volkswagen as a company in Europe, than if they sell them to VWOA to import to the US. An even better example is touareg TDI which sells for quite a bit more in Europe, and was suddenly "discontinued" at least for this year in the US.
So, VW Germany hikes the prices to the distributor to make up the loss of profit. 
You of all people should know that to compete you have to be talking about a low price on an entry level model - would you buy a $18,000 Polo?

Corradodrvfnd...
The real crux of the issue goes to the fact that VWoA does NOT know how to market the products that the manufacturer produces. The Polo is NOT a LOW volume product, anymore than a Hyundai Elantra, or Toyota Echo is. If you want to get more specific you could call Mexico a "low" volume market for the Polo yet the price is about $11,5k USD. 
Of course, the Golf GL is a low volume car in the US currently, yet it sells for a reasonable 15k, LESS than the high volume Jetta GL(essentialy the same car remember) so your arguement does not make sense.
IF VWoA had competent marketing ability, and a better dealer network we wouldn't even be talking about this today. Remember a competent outfit finds a way to "create" a desire for its products. The Scion line is a good example. Frankly the Xb is a toaster on wheels with little performance, yet the Scion marketers created a need for it.
The Touareg is more an issue of a company trying to bite off more than it can chew. The truth is how does VWoA figure to satisfy customers paying 60K for a premium vehicle when it can't even statisfy customers paying 20K for a Jetta?
The dream to be a premium brand that the incompetent management has at VWoA is ludicrous at best, fact is VW is not, has never been, and will never be a luxury brand, especially with the hacks that staff the dealers and the Corporate HQ.


_Modified by golf strom at 4:49 PM 4-6-2005_


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## unixgolf (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: VW will never change (golf strom)*

I agree with you "golf strom".
Final thoughts: I was leasing a Passat from 1999-2001 and "upgraded" to an a4 1,8t. I was right, the enigne (the same) behaved more agressively thanks to the tiptronic with different programming. I was not willing to pay the same amount of $ for a passat v6 4motion, I preferred the a4. (I guess I'm not alone)
Platform: Why not use a different name in America and use the golf platform and then build: a coupe, a sedan, a golf Plus, a mini SUV and all NOW. It is coming I know, but in 2008 or even 2010. May be the suv era will already be a thing of the past.
Audi: Too late, the Q7-SUV is coming, then the Q5 and if I wanted an Q3 it will probably never come to america again ....
I guess we're use to see how fast japan can turn around rapidly, or work on a lot of different projects concurrenty always ready to propose something.


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## Vr6 Cutie (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (vwdude53)*

OK...well it happened again....and I don't know what to do. I brought my car to VW for some problems with my car. Now they're telling me that whoever rebuilt my engine didn't do a very good job, and the idiots even put my timing belt on wrong. They also forgot to put a few things back like the dampner and roller, and many other things they seemed to have overlooked. SO far, VW wants another 1800 bucks and I am sure it'll only escalate from there. The thing is that the guy that rebuilt my engine is trash and isn't worth dealing with, but I can't keep paying VW for his mistakes. In the past two months I have payed over 4000 for my car. Should I just tell them to keep it? Uhh...I am sooo angry


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