# Flushing before oil change



## eastcoastpunk (Jun 12, 2008)

This may be a dumb question, but is it ok to flush the engine before an oil change? My jetta has 106k on it, and i don't really know the maintenance history. Looks pretty sludgy inside the valve cover!!!


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

my personnl recommendation would be to do an Auto-Rx treatment.
Very highly regarded in oil circles.
More details at autorx.com Not available in stores. Only from the website. I did it to my VR6 when I bought it with 56k.


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## crrdslcvr6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (nuskool)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nuskool* »_my personnl recommendation would be to do an Auto-Rx treatment.
Very highly regarded in oil circles.
More details at autorx.com Not available in stores. Only from the website. I did it to my VR6 when I bought it with 56k.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 18Lturbo (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (crrdslcvr6)*

I dont want to steal your thread and I'm sorry but I have an '83 porsche 911 4S. Would you still recommend Auto-Rx? Keep in mind it has typical oil leaking issues of early model 911's!


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

recommended for any car. Go to the website and read up on it.
Also go to bobistheoilguy.com and do a search for it. You'll find plenty of posts on it.
Most oil seal leaks are caused by sludge and gum on the seal. This will clean it off and possibly fix the leak. 
Of course if the seal is dried up or torn it won't help that.


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## wannaGLI (Jun 24, 2008)

i went to jiffy lube for an oil change (castrol full synthetic)
i had them flush the engine since i didnt know what kind of oil the previous owner used...
they used Heartland Xtreme Engine flush
basically, they drained all the oil.. put a new oil filter on.. pour the Heartland stuff in, run the engine for 10 min, drain everything out... then put in 4.75 quarts of oil and install a new filter
i dono if this was a good idea or not.. but i didnt want to use synthetic without an engine flush, because regular oil has wax and synthetic doesnt...


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (wannaGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wannaGLI* »_i went to jiffy lube for an oil change (castrol full synthetic)

Are you sure? Castrol only sells a single truly synthetic oil over the counter here in the U.S., and that is Syntec 0W-30 (meets both the 502.00 and the 503.01 oil spec). They also sell another Group III wannabe synthetic that meets the VW 502.00 oil spec, and that is Syntec 5W-40. Any other "full synthetic" by Castrol is not approved for use in your car.

_Quote, originally posted by *wannaGLI* »_i had them flush the engine since i didnt know what kind of oil the previous owner used...
they used Heartland Xtreme Engine flush
basically, they drained all the oil.. put a new oil filter on.. pour the Heartland stuff in, run the engine for 10 min, drain everything out... then put in 4.75 quarts of oil and install a new filter
i dono if this was a good idea or not.. but i didnt want to use synthetic without an engine flush, because regular oil has wax and synthetic doesnt...

While I'm not saying that that was a bad idea, there's no way would subject my car to a "flush" of any sort. Given that VW requires oil that meets the 502.00 oil spec to be used in your engine, it's a pretty good bet that conventional oil was never used in your engine.
As a side note, the only paraffin or "wax" that I've ever run up against from conventional oil came from "Pennsylvania Grade Crude" based oils (i.e. Quaker State, Wolf's Head, and Pennzoil), all other conventional oils (i.e. Valvoline, Castrol, Havoline...) are free (or virtually free) of any kind of wax.


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## wannaGLI (Jun 24, 2008)

shipo...
here is what they used... i took pics..
engine flush..








oil...









owner said i can use regular oil or synthetic.. he also said i can use 87 octane or 91...
i choose to use synthetic, and pump 91.


_Modified by wannaGLI at 10:15 AM 6-29-2008_


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## wannaGLI (Jun 24, 2008)

by the way.. i chose Castrol over Mobil 1 because i called the VW dealer and they told me they use Castrol synthetic


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (wannaGLI)*

The problem here is that, per the Castrol web site, their 5W-50 offering is not certified to meet the critical 502.00 oil specifications as published by VW and Audi.
Link to Castrol's PDF: http://www.castrol.com/liveass...a.pdf
Link to Audi's PDF: http://www.audiusa.com/etc/med...e.pdf
Based upon what you said about the previous owner, he was a moron who never once cracked the cover of his Owner's Manual, as such, you can pretty much disregard anything he said. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Regarding Mobil 1 vs. Castrol Syntec (or any other 502.00 certified oil for that matter), no worries, these are some of the best oils in the world. Regarding what your dealership told you, well, some of the absolute worst automotive maintenance advice has come from dealership service departments. The fact is, by using any of the oils on the Audi list (link posted above), you'll keep both your warranty intact and your engine in good shape. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by shipo at 4:02 PM 6-29-2008_


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## dontmakbad (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (shipo)*

is running some sea foam through the oil the same thing as an engine flush?


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: (dontmakbad)*

Sea foam works, but like every other "flush" on the market it is a solvent base. Most flushes are only intended to be used for 5 -20 minutes. I've heard of people using seafoam for upwards of 750 miles.
The problem with a solvant is that there are things it won't ever dissolve and other things that it can potentially break loose and cause larger particles to dislodge and possible block oil passages. So not a very good idea for a heavily sludged engine that you may be trying to restore. but if you're just talking about a mildly sludged engine, it most likely won't hurt.
What's nice about Auto-rx is that it's not a solvant. It works slowly. Over the period of a couple thousand miles it slowly liquifies the deposits and given enough treatments it will eventually dissolve all sludge deposits even in the worst of engines. But it takes time and patience. And how many treatments depends on how badly sludged the engine is. 
That is at least the claim of the company and there are a lot of testimonials to back the claims. Can you trust them all? I really don't know.


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## 79rabbit4dr (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (nuskool)*

I've got a question along those same lines. I just bought a 81 rabbit Diesel. I'm not sure what the maintenance history is on it either. The auto-rx site says that synthetics don't work well with their product but i'm definitely going to run a synthetic because of the climate i live in (100 degree summers, 20 below winters, high altitude 5k'). Should I use auto-rx in my diesel w/ synthetic or is there another flushing agent that would work better?

their site is actually http://www.auto-rx.com 
also found some good info at http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html


_Modified by 79rabbit4dr at 10:16 PM 7-9-2008_


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## Fluxburn64 (Apr 9, 2005)

*Re: (79rabbit4dr)*

Hum... So I have a mk3 2.0 jetta I got at 40k miles. I have done regular and synthetic changes and good intervals. I got 140k now. I guess I should try a bottle or two of this stuff, and then use the sea foam. 
More the likely this stuff sounds overkill though.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (Fluxburn64)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fluxburn64* »_Hum... So I have a mk3 2.0 jetta I got at 40k miles. I have done regular and synthetic changes and good intervals. I got 140k now. I guess I should try a bottle or two of this stuff, and then use the sea foam.

Why? If you've been using the proper oil, your engine should be clean as a whistle inside.


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## Fluxburn64 (Apr 9, 2005)

*Re: (shipo)*

o... they why would anyone ever buy this product and waste money? What defines not properly taking car of an engine? Not putting oil in it?


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (Fluxburn64)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fluxburn64* »_o... they why would anyone ever buy this product and waste money? What defines not properly taking car of an engine? Not putting oil in it?









Personally I believe that oil flush products are snake oil. That said, I've seen plenty of sludged engines in my time, and sludged enough where folks might be tempted to try some of these products. Why the sludge? Lots of reasons, but the two primary ones are, 1) incorrect oil type (either wrong grade or not up to spec), and 2) running the oil too long between oil changes.
Said another way, if you've been using a VW certified 502.00 oil (or better), and been staying withing the oil change recommendations, your engine should be nice and clean inside.


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## aquamarine68 (Jun 28, 2008)

*Re: (shipo)*

I know that you can safely do a flush simply be using a high detergent oil like Shell Rotella T the oil can be used in either gas or diesel engines. 
I agree with the additives being snake oil. You really take your chances with this stuff. You can be sure that the detergents in oil like Rotella T or similar is the correct type, and will cause no damage.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

vw really has one approved oil flushing method. It was developed by BG Products in response to the longitudinal 1.8t Sludge fiasco.


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_vw really has one approved oil flushing method. It was developed by BG Products in response to the longitudinal 1.8t Sludge fiasco.

Yes, that is the other reason for sludge that shipo didn't mention. Some engines are prone to it. And for that matter some oils are prone to it.
So as shipo said, if you're taking proper care of your engine, then you shouldn't need it. But then that isn't really the question for this thread. The point is that if you don't know the history of oil changes, then it may be a good idea.
I had a Geo Prizm with a mere 55k on it when I bought it and the rings were sludged bad enough to make it burn about a qt every 700 miles. needless to say, that's pretty bad. But then that was b4 I knew about auto-rx which I would have tried had I known. Instead I tore it down and cleaned it up. After which it stopped burning oil. 
SO the question here is "if" your engine is sludged, or "if" you think it might be, auto-rx is worth a shot.


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## wannaGLI (Jun 24, 2008)

the only reason i flushed mine because i didnt know what kinda of oil the previous owner used, and i wanted to use synthetic, so i had to flush..


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: (wannaGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wannaGLI* »_the only reason i flushed mine because i didnt know what kinda of oil the previous owner used, and i wanted to use synthetic, so i had to flush..

ditto


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## wannaGLI (Jun 24, 2008)

ditto means agreed? lol


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: (wannaGLI)*

yes


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: (Fluxburn64)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fluxburn64* »_o... they why would anyone ever buy this product and waste money?

to waste money


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## Fluxburn64 (Apr 9, 2005)

*Re: (f1forkvr6)*

I like spending money on shell because it makes me feel good because I think it is the best gas. I think people buy personalized licenses plates to feel good about themselves, people buy large suv's to feel good about themselves too. I mean, a large suv is like a large yacht; big = rich and powerful.


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## Mortal_Wombat (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (aquamarine68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aquamarine68* »_I know that you can safely do a flush simply be using a high detergent oil like Shell Rotella T the oil can be used in either gas or diesel engines. 
I agree with the additives being snake oil. You really take your chances with this stuff. You can be sure that the detergents in oil like Rotella T or similar is the correct type, and will cause no damage.

i've actually seen that oil ruin an old high mileage engine
went from fine to smoking like hell in about a month after putting the rotella in, the high amount of detergent in the oil cleaned up EVERYTHING lol
even the deposits that were keeping the motor from burning oil lol


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## I6turbo (Apr 14, 2008)

*Re: (wannaGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wannaGLI* »_... i wanted to use synthetic, so i had to flush..

I wish this foolish internet myth would die instead of being propagated.







You can switch back and forth with impunity. Period.
I'd NEVER use any of those snake oil BS products in anything I own unless it was a garbage engine so sludged up that the oil wouldn't drain down out of the head. But then, I'd never buy an vehicle like that, nor would I ignore mtce. to the point that it'd get that way.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (I6turbo)*

Ahem, WURD! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Kklinker (Jul 23, 2008)

*Re: (shipo)*

I just purchased a 06 GLI a week ago, didn't really ask for the maitance records. what would ebt he easiest way to check to see how clean my engine is. If that makes sense lol. the car has 38000 miles on it


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## smithers232 (Jul 26, 2008)

*Re: (Mortal_Wombat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mortal_Wombat* »_
i've actually seen that oil ruin an old high mileage engine
went from fine to smoking like hell in about a month after putting the rotella in, the high amount of detergent in the oil cleaned up EVERYTHING lol
even the deposits that were keeping the motor from burning oil lol

Hard to belive really, but I would be more specific by saying that you run the Rotella for about 1 to 2 k and then change out for a normal dino oil with the typical amount of detergents. What I want to accomplish is to remove the most of the varnish on critical metal parts, NOT clean the seals up. If you give the HD oil too much time it would do this possibly .
I'm sure somebody on http://www.bobistheoilguy.com has done a write up on this proceedure. Unless anyone else can elaborate on the subject.


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## jakub28 (Jul 27, 2008)

WannaGLI, if the previous owner said you can use conventional oil on a mark 4, they have no idea what they were talking about..the only exception Volkswagen accepts is if you are low on oil and have absolutely no other choice but to pour in conventional. And even then there is a limit to how much you can put in. After you need to drain the oil and replace it completely with synthetic again as soon as possible.


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