# APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Trying to see how many people have had problems regarding not meeting requested or fuel cuts on APR's 2.1 software. Please post year of car, issue, and mods. 
If you've not seen any issues...post that too!
Thank you.
Year
Issue (Fuel cuts / Not meeting requested)
Mods
I have the downpipe on but the recent accounts of issues with this software has me leery and toying with the idea of removing it and sticking with stage 1.


----------



## mkvgtiblk06 (Mar 2, 2007)

Well if you having issues with the stage 2 is because you need the full exhaust system not the downpipe. The stage 2 chip requires the full tbe system.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (NoRegrets78)*

*'06 GLI DSG*
APR TBE Stealth
NP Delete
Evoms or Carbonio
APR FMIC
APR 2.1 SW
Everything was fine with 2.0 SW. Met requested boost all day long.
Under boost code when 2.1 SW went on.
Can't meet requested boost throughout the RPM Range. N75 is at 100% all the time under WOT.
Peak boost is at 20.5psi.
New "G" PVC and breather were replaced.
Ned "C" DV replaced.
APR IC hose has a kink, but wasn't an issue with 2.0 SW boost requests.
Multiple requests for logs showing what the boost should look like from APR have been made and have fallen on deaf ears at APR. I am not convinced they actually tested the 2.1 SW with the FMIC as I was told that the 2.1 SW was too aggressive for them to run on their cars.
I was told that if my car was running right I would get Fuel cuts as the 2.1SW is the same as the beta file. This contradicts That has been advertised here. Thats another story though.
I was also told to BUILD MY OWN HOSE while they get the new DGS one worked out. Then put on hold for 30 min. called back, had to tell my story all over again to someone else and I should have a modified version of the 6speed hose to try next week. Still not convinced that is the problem, but I haven't ruled it out. I have seen many logs that show APR 2.1SW asking for too much boost in the high RPM's and throwing codes. These were with FMIC and without.
My intentions were to put the 2.1 SW on before the IC, but APR was busy and ignoring posts that they committed to a June time-frame for the SW. Yet, I was loyal enough to still move forward with their product.
I have seen a ton of APR 2.1SW complaint threads that just dwindle away. Too bad our problems don't.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Spongebobnopants)*

07 GTI DSG
APR 2.1 93octane
APR Downpipe to stock catback
Forge DV
Forge FMIC
Threw a MIL for boost too low the day I put the software+dp on the car but I've never thrown it again. 
I've hit fuel cuts, but I've already ordered the new fuel pump.
My boost logs show that I am hitting requested boost, but deviate from it near redline as seen here







. I'm told my boost levels are similar to other tunes. I've also done other logs where I was slightly over requested boost. The highest I've logged was 22.9psi.







22.9
Overall I haven't experienced the boost deviation problem some others have. 
_Modified by Arin at 3:20 PM 8-30-2007_


_Modified by Arin at 3:30 PM 8-30-2007_


----------



## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: (mkvgtiblk06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkvgtiblk06* »_Well if you having issues with the stage 2 is because you need the full exhaust system not the downpipe. The stage 2 chip requires the full tbe system.

That is not correct. Stage II only requires a DP.


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (mkvgtiblk06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkvgtiblk06* »_Well if you having issues with the stage 2 is because you need the full exhaust system not the downpipe. The stage 2 chip requires the full tbe system.

you are wrong







. you can run stage 2 with just a downpipe ! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Got_Turbo (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

APR Stg 2.1 93oct
APR Stealth TBE
Neuspeed Intake
Replaced functional OEM DV with a new one
Blocked off Manifold port to PCV to ensure no leak
No problems with fuel cuts, but I'm not even close to meeting requested boost. Here are the code i throw consistently everytime i do a full throttle run in 3rd or 4th gear, and a some graphed logs.
















VAG-COM Version: Release 704.1
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 115 B
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0020
Software Coding: 0403010A18070160
Work Shop Code: WSC 01279
1 Fault Found:
000665 - Boost Pressure Regulation: Control Range Not Reached 
P0299 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 37202 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 19:43:02
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 3140 /min
Load: 82.3 %
Speed: 107.0 km/h
Temperature: 87.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 890.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V 

_Modified by Got_Turbo at 1:34 PM 8-30-2007_


_Modified by Got_Turbo at 1:34 PM 8-30-2007_


----------



## Cevan (Apr 7, 2007)

'06 GLI
Not meeting requested boost/throwing CEL for not meeting boost.
Neuspeed intake, 3" custom TBE, APR 2.1 sw, PCV v.G, Forge DV.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Is there anyone out there that 2.1 is working for them?
I don't want to be forced into a new fuel pump just to run stage 2...that wasn't the deal here.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

WTF, am I the only one with a working setup?


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_WTF, am I the only one with a working setup?

no.
you, me and every other mkv that i chipped (keep in mind i do about 2 a week) no one reported any issues.
i mean dont get me wrong.......i occasionaly hit a cut in 5th, 6th gear when i am womping on it but never earlier. i jsut learned to get around it


_Modified by prodigymb at 8:59 PM 8-30-2007_


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
no.
you, me and every other mkv that i chipped (keep in mind i do about 2 a week) no one reported any issues.
i mean dont get me wrong.......i occasionaly hit a cut in 5th, 6th gear when i am womping on it but never earlier. i jsut learned to get around it

_Modified by prodigymb at 8:59 PM 8-30-2007_

How many of them had FMIC's. It looks like Arin only hits requested for while at peak and after that their is a decent spread. 
Also, how many 2.1 SW have you done? It has only been out a few weeks.


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Also, how many 2.1 SW have you done? It has only been out a few weeks.










I've had mine for a few months
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3414297


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Getting fuel cuts is not "working".
If you're getting fuel cuts and the fix is to get a new fuel pump for a thousand dollars...sorry but to me that's not "working".
When I ask who's is working I mean flawless...no fuel cuts...meets requested boost...the whole 9 yards...not selectively.
Has everyone just accepted that you paid for software that may or may not won't work right unless you pony up another 1000 bucks?
Don't get me wrong. I love APR and their products...its why I use them, but if going stage 2 means there are times it just won't work right, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


----------



## AndorGLI (Jul 29, 2007)

i'm a newb to software and **** but is there a difference b/w apr stage 2+ beta file with the apr stage 2.1.
and if there is a difference, whats the differece, i'm peaking 21psi right now and under full load i'm able to hit 23.4psi just to put that out there b/c i'm comparing my car with the 2.1 version to c the diff.


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (AndorGLI)*

2007 GTI
APR 3" Stealth Turbo-back
APR Stage 2
Stock IC
Stock fuel pump
Stock DV/PCV
Stock intake
I've had fuel cuts several times in the past couple weeks that I've had it.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Getting fuel cuts is not "working".

I think I agree with that for the most part... I almost think they should offer two programs, the super aggressive one they have now, and one that is more aggressive than stage 1, takes advantage of the new exhaust, but doesn't hit the fuel cut. Maybe this isn't possible though. 
Does giac, revo, unitronic offer a stage two exhaust program? Are they hitting fuel cuts?


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
I think I agree with that for the most part... I almost think they should offer two programs, the super aggressive one they have now, and one that is more aggressive than stage 1, takes advantage of the new exhaust, but doesn't hit the fuel cut. Maybe this isn't possible though. 
Does giac, revo, unitronic offer a stage two exhaust program? Are they hitting fuel cuts?

Since when has APR became a super aggressive tuner. All I have ever heard, up until recently, that APR is a more conservative tune that claims to be safer that other tuners.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_
Since when has APR became a super aggressive tuner. All I have ever heard, up until recently, that APR is a more conservative tune that claims to be safer that other tuners.

More aggressive compared to stage 1 software since people hit fuel cuts.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (AndorGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AndorGLI* »_i'm a newb to software and **** but is there a difference b/w apr stage 2+ beta file with the apr stage 2.1.
and if there is a difference, whats the differece, i'm peaking 21psi right now and under full load i'm able to hit 23.4psi just to put that out there b/c i'm comparing my car with the 2.1 version to c the diff.

23.4 sounds high. can you post a log? Was the 2.1SW asking for 23+?


----------



## Supplicium (Jan 26, 2005)

06 GTI 6 Speed
APR Stage 2 v2.1
APR Sport TBE
EVOMS CAI
Audi EA Pipe
G PCV replaced
C PCV replaced
Never hit fuel cut but have never hit over 16psi.
Next week ill be installing Forge DV, Euroject PCV and getting reflashed at h2oi


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Supplicium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Supplicium* »_06 GTI 6 Speed
APR Stage 2 v2.1
APR Sport TBE
EVOMS CAI
Audi EA Pipe
G PCV replaced
C PCV replaced
Never hit fuel cut but have never hit over 16psi.
Next week ill be installing Forge DV, Euroject PCV and getting reflashed at h2oi

Dude...Log block 114 and check the duty cycle on your WG. My guess is the turbo never stops spooling. = excessive heat and wear!
16 psi seems a little low, might also want to log 115 and see what the SW is asking for? Are you at high altitude?


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

It's not seeing these problems that bother me, its there's no one here yet that can say "it works for me". 
Time for APR to step in I think.


----------



## Supplicium (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Dude...Log block 114 and check the duty cycle on your WG. My guess is the turbo never stops spooling. = excessive heat and wear!
16 psi seems a little low, might also want to log 115 and see what the SW is asking for? Are you at high altitude?

I dont have access to a Vag-Com ATM but next week when I get my coilovers and rsb installed I will make some logs.
I have a boost gauge and everything seems fine. But ill look into my wg.
I think Columbus, OH is not considered high altitude. 


_Modified by Supplicium at 10:24 AM 8-31-2007_


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_It's not seeing these problems that bother me, its there's no one here yet that can say "it works for me". 
Time for APR to step in I think.

I agree. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sactown_a3 (Nov 15, 2006)

I've only been boosting to 15 according to my AWE gauge. I'll try and run some logs this weekend and see if I have anything to compare with the rest of you.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (sactown_a3)*

logs will be important. The important thing is the diff. between requested and actual. If the diff is to much you may throw a code. the more important thing is if you don't throw a code. This means you have no indication of a problem, but the turbo is working extra to get something it never will.
I have been doing most of mine in 3rd gear and that seems to show me enough info. 4th is a little hard on the car at low rpm's and you need much more road. Either way, I have not seen huge differences between the two gears.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Although I'm not hitting requested boost near redline, My WG is not fully slammed shut. This could by why I'm not hitting request:











_Modified by Arin at 12:12 PM 8-31-2007_


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

06 A3 6MT APR StgII+ v2.1
AWE Boost gaugge
APR DP
Carbonio
VAG-COM
The car has had the cam inspected and nothing was found. AUDI ended up replacing my "B" pump with a "H" pump and it didn't help at all.
Car is fine doing 3rd pulls...in fact it meets everything requested, both boost and fuel...hits about 127bar when it is requesting 129.9 at peak.
My issue is in 5th or 6th when I'm cruising on the freeway at 90mph and hit the gas....
I have done logs in 6th gear from cruising at 90mph and flooring it thru 110mph...what happens is the boost stays as requested but the fuel actual drops by 40 bar when it gets to about 110bar all the while asking 129.9bar. This is when I get the infamous:
Fuel Pressure Regulator Valve (N276): Mechanical Malfunction 
P2293 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
I have done the exact same run(90-110) in stock mode and it requests 110 and hits it perfectly the whole time....no issue.
It has gotten worse since the 2.1 update, tho it did it with the stgII production file as well. The car does it atleast once on the way to or from work everyday, and when it happens it goes into limp mode accepting no input from the pedal. After sometime it decides to come back to me and give me control again. I reset the code when I get home everyday, but now it is starting throw a CEL too.
If my fuel pump can make 127-128bar in a 3rd gear pull, why do I need a new mechanical pump to make it in 6th gear? Why can't my pump make it in 6th gear too? I love APR, just want some answers or technical explanations before I make a $1000 commitment. It's hard to move forward with "It will solve the fuel issue and you get extra power too."

Pete


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Although I'm not hitting requested boost near redline, My WG is not fully slammed shut. This could by why I'm not hitting request:
_Modified by Arin at 12:12 PM 8-31-2007_

Correct. The WG has to predict what to do to react fast enough. You hit boost in the lower RPM causing the WG to open. It makes its prediction to to maintain the boost based on meeting the threshold between requested and actual. My guess and this is only a guess, is that with your FMIC and that requested Boost level the prediction is not based on the extra volume and further compression provided by the IC. It is predicting on tables not designed for the FMIC.
Notice On mine, I never hit requested so my WG is just pegged, occasionally it would dip to 93 based on a prediction, but never actually hit requested. In that case the requested and actual were closer.


----------



## Got_Turbo (Mar 26, 2006)

I'm glad its not just me that's having problems. I just want to know how to fix it. If i thought buying the pump would fix my problem and get me back 4 pounds of boost, I'd do it. I just don't think it will help my case...


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Got_Turbo)*

If you put it to stock, are you hitting request?


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

bt i just checked my sw and it is not the 2.1, cuz there is no 2.1 for 07s, mine is just the stage 2+ v1.0 testpipesfile. arin i am pretty sure you have the same thing.
the 2.0 and 2.1 files were for 06s only


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_bt i just checked my sw and it is not the 2.1, cuz there is no 2.1 for 07s, mine is just the stage 2+ v1.0 testpipesfile. arin i am pretty sure you have the same thing.
the 2.0 and 2.1 files were for 06s only


This is correct. 06 stage 2.1 is the same as 07 stage 2.0. I wish somebody could figure out what the difference is between the 06 and 07. This alone could solve everybody's issues.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (majid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majid* »_This alone could solve everybody's issues.









I know something that would solve everyone's problems.


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (majid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majid* »_

This is correct. 06 stage 2.1 is the same as 07 stage 2.0. I wish somebody could figure out what the difference is between the 06 and 07. This alone could solve everybody's issues.









Are you saying that people were flashed with the wrong software by their APR Dealer? I see many people posting about problems with 07's and v2.1. Odd that so many people would get the wrong software, isn't it majid?


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_
Are you saying that people were flashed with the wrong software by their APR Dealer? I see many people posting about problems with 07's and v2.1. Odd that so many people would get the wrong software, isn't it majid?

When you look at APR's dealer site for flashing there is no option for 07 v2.1, unless it has been added since I saw it last week


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (majid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majid* »_
When you look at APR's dealer site for flashing there is no option for 07 v2.1, unless it has been added since I saw it last week









VERY interesting


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Got a response from [email protected] They are aware of this thread and are looking into it. Thank you all for your responses!


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_07 GTI DSG
APR 2.1 93octane
APR Downpipe to stock catback
Forge DV
Forge FMIC
Threw a MIL for boost too low the day I put the software+dp on the car but I've never thrown it again. 
I've hit fuel cuts, but I've already ordered the new fuel pump.
My boost logs show that I am hitting requested boost, but deviate from it near redline as seen here







. I'm told my boost levels are similar to other tunes. I've also done other logs where I was slightly over requested boost. The highest I've logged was 22.9psi.







22.9
Overall I haven't experienced the boost deviation problem some others have. 
_Modified by Arin at 3:20 PM 8-30-2007_

_Modified by Arin at 3:30 PM 8-30-2007_


You have an 07 so your file is similar to the 06 v2.1 but not quite identical. Your logs look good though.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Got_Turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Got_Turbo* »_APR Stg 2.1 93oct
APR Stealth TBE
Neuspeed Intake
Replaced functional OEM DV with a new one
Blocked off Manifold port to PCV to ensure no leak
No problems with fuel cuts, but I'm not even close to meeting requested boost. Here are the code i throw consistently everytime i do a full throttle run in 3rd or 4th gear, and a some graphed logs.
















VAG-COM Version: Release 704.1
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 115 B
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0020
Software Coding: 0403010A18070160
Work Shop Code: WSC 01279
1 Fault Found:
000665 - Boost Pressure Regulation: Control Range Not Reached 
P0299 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 37202 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 19:43:02
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 3140 /min
Load: 82.3 %
Speed: 107.0 km/h
Temperature: 87.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 890.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V 

_Modified by Got_Turbo at 1:34 PM 8-30-2007_

_Modified by Got_Turbo at 1:34 PM 8-30-2007_


Everything really points to a leak somewhere. I would suggest trying v2.0 and see if the issue persists. You should be able to meet the request or at least come closer.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_*'06 GLI DSG*
APR TBE Stealth
NP Delete
Evoms or Carbonio
APR FMIC
APR 2.1 SW
Everything was fine with 2.0 SW. Met requested boost all day long.
Under boost code when 2.1 SW went on.
Can't meet requested boost throughout the RPM Range. N75 is at 100% all the time under WOT.
Peak boost is at 20.5psi.
New "G" PVC and breather were replaced.
Ned "C" DV replaced.
APR IC hose has a kink, but wasn't an issue with 2.0 SW boost requests.
Multiple requests for logs showing what the boost should look like from APR have been made and have fallen on deaf ears at APR. I am not convinced they actually tested the 2.1 SW with the FMIC as I was told that the 2.1 SW was too aggressive for them to run on their cars.
I was told that if my car was running right I would get Fuel cuts as the 2.1SW is the same as the beta file. This contradicts That has been advertised here. Thats another story though.
I was also told to BUILD MY OWN HOSE while they get the new DGS one worked out. Then put on hold for 30 min. called back, had to tell my story all over again to someone else and I should have a modified version of the 6speed hose to try next week. Still not convinced that is the problem, but I haven't ruled it out. I have seen many logs that show APR 2.1SW asking for too much boost in the high RPM's and throwing codes. These were with FMIC and without.
My intentions were to put the 2.1 SW on before the IC, but APR was busy and ignoring posts that they committed to a June time-frame for the SW. Yet, I was loyal enough to still move forward with their product.
I have seen a ton of APR 2.1SW complaint threads that just dwindle away. Too bad our problems don't.


Unfortunately the airflow restriction in the hose is going to create some problems. We should see some changes in your logs tomorrow.
The entire hose issue I completely apologize for. Its unacceptable.
Once you have the hose tomorrow let's look at some new logs and see if anything changes.
We have v2.1 on our vehicles that are still on stock turbo and are 06's. The 07 v1.0 is very similar to v2.1 on the 06.
We'll get to the bottom of these issues for sure. Please give me a little time to research on my end.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Is there anyone out there that 2.1 is working for them?
I don't want to be forced into a new fuel pump just to run stage 2...that wasn't the deal here.

Stage 2 v2.0 is readily available for your situation. The v2.1 has always been promoted as more aggressive. When in its beta stage fuel cut was more common and we spent quite a bit of time bringing it down in slow increments before the production release.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (AndorGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AndorGLI* »_i'm a newb to software and **** but is there a difference b/w apr stage 2+ beta file with the apr stage 2.1.
and if there is a difference, whats the differece, i'm peaking 21psi right now and under full load i'm able to hit 23.4psi just to put that out there b/c i'm comparing my car with the 2.1 version to c the diff.

The beta file is a new development adding 130 bar fuel pressure request to allow the opportunity to take full advantage of the turbocharger. Testing was in place for quite some time and reports of occasional to frequent fuel cut was collected and we brought things down a bit and more testing was performed to show that everything was in line. The file was then renamed v2.1.
v2.0 is the original stage 2 file that is a little more conservative and avoids any fuel cut or other issues completely.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_
Are you saying that people were flashed with the wrong software by their APR Dealer? I see many people posting about problems with 07's and v2.1. Odd that so many people would get the wrong software, isn't it majid?

Its impossible to flash 06 code onto an 07 and vice versa at the dealer level.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Thanks for the info. So to get it straight, I have 2.0 software? I'll rename my photographs later.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
v2.0 is the original stage 2 file that is a little more conservative and avoids any fuel cut or other issues completely.

After the OY update I got the new v2.0 file and I still saw the 40bar drop that I am seeing now. Instead of the file asking 129.9bar, that file only asked for 120bar at peak load. Never the less, I saw 40bar drop then and I'm just seeing it more often now with the v2.1 file. I sent the data logs two weeks ago to Andy for stock and chipped pulls.
I got to say that with the original beta file, I never went into limp mode or saw a 40bar drop, the car just stuttered threw 5500rpm and I could control it by not going WOT thru that rpm range. Now I have no control, it just goes into limp mode when ever it exceeds the lower limit of fuel pressure. I regret getting the OY update....

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
We have v2.1 on our vehicles that are still on stock turbo and are 06's.


What type of '06 cars do you have? I was under the impression you did not have a '06 A3 anymore...will this effect whether or not APR can resolve '06 A3 StgII issues??
Pete


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Stage 2 v2.0 is readily available for your situation. The v2.1 has always been promoted as more aggressive. When in its beta stage fuel cut was more common and we spent quite a bit of time bringing it down in slow increments before the production release.

Sounds good. I guess the best I can hope for is to give it a shot and if it doesn't look good I'll go back for 2.0. Since I'm an 06 I might have better luck than some of the 07 guys having issues. It would be worth the 2nd reflash charge to at least give the more aggressive file a chance if there is a chance it would work.
If the 2.1 is modified to alleviate some of the symptoms people are seeing let me know and I'll wait for the updated. Thanks for jumping in boss!


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Thanks for the info. So to get it straight, I have 2.0 software? I'll rename my photographs later.

arin you have "NA MY07 DSG H box Stage 2+ v1.0 testpipes" file on your car which is what i run on mine except iahve the 6SPD version.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

Unfortunately the airflow restriction in the hose is going to create some problems. We should see some changes in your logs tomorrow.
The entire hose issue I completely apologize for. Its unacceptable.
Once you have the hose tomorrow let's look at some new logs and see if anything changes.
We have v2.1 on our vehicles that are still on stock turbo and are 06's. The 07 v1.0 is very similar to v2.1 on the 06.
We'll get to the bottom of these issues for sure. Please give me a little time to research on my end.

New hose is on and the logs look pretty much the same as before. No change


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

Unfortunately the airflow restriction in the hose is going to create some problems. We should see some changes in your logs tomorrow.
The entire hose issue I completely apologize for. Its unacceptable.
Once you have the hose tomorrow let's look at some new logs and see if anything changes.
We have v2.1 on our vehicles that are still on stock turbo and are 06's. The 07 v1.0 is very similar to v2.1 on the 06.
We'll get to the bottom of these issues for sure. Please give me a little time to research on my end.

New logs were emailed to APR Saturday. I'm still thinking 2.1 SW. As you can see the hose change did not make a diff. Here is a pict of the Passenger size hose. I trimmed 3/8" off and it is still skinny in the middle. but not sure if that is the problem either.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Spongebobnopants)*

I still don't see why you're not hitting requested. 
If the WG is totally shut and you are not leaking, how can you not hit request? I would have to say there is a leak somewhere.
I mean, with mine, I have the forge twintercooler, which combined with stock is larger than the APR IC and I still hit requested at the beginning and taper off.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (PeteA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeteA3* »_
After the OY update I got the new v2.0 file and I still saw the 40bar drop that I am seeing now. Instead of the file asking 129.9bar, that file only asked for 120bar at peak load. Never the less, I saw 40bar drop then and I'm just seeing it more often now with the v2.1 file. I sent the data logs two weeks ago to Andy for stock and chipped pulls.
I got to say that with the original beta file, I never went into limp mode or saw a 40bar drop, the car just stuttered threw 5500rpm and I could control it by not going WOT thru that rpm range. Now I have no control, it just goes into limp mode when ever it exceeds the lower limit of fuel pressure. I regret getting the OY update....
What type of '06 cars do you have? I was under the impression you did not have a '06 A3 anymore...will this effect whether or not APR can resolve '06 A3 StgII issues??
Pete

The 06 ecu's are the same from a calibration perspective from passat to jetta to eos to gti to A3 so no issues there! I have a car available so it won't take long.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

Does everyone that is having this issue have an intercooler installed?


----------



## sactown_a3 (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Does everyone that is having this issue have an intercooler installed?

I do not.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_I still don't see why you're not hitting requested. 
If the WG is totally shut and you are not leaking, how can you not hit request? I would have to say there is a leak somewhere.
I mean, with mine, I have the forge twintercooler, which combined with stock is larger than the APR IC and I still hit requested at the beginning and taper off.









Only thing I can think is that the '06 cars cant pull as much boost. Or the OEM DV can't handle over 20.5 psi without leaking/weak spring?
I can't even pressure test this at the dealer as their kit won't fit on the new APR IC. I will try to rig something with the old IC hose to do a pressure test. 
I wish APR had a way of offering stage 2 and Stage 2.1 on the same burn. Kinda like 91 and 93 oct.


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Does everyone that is having this issue have an intercooler installed?

Mine is stock and I get fuel cuts.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Well there are two issues...fuel cuts and not meeting requested.
The not meeting requested it would be interesting to see if those were the FMIC cars.
The fuel cuts were pretty consistent across all configurations yes no?


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Only thing I can think is that the '06 cars cant pull as much boost. Or the OEM DV can't handle over 20.5 psi without leaking/weak spring?



That adds another thing to the mix. I'm running my forge DV and not the OEM DV. Do you still have the forge? Could you test it?
Mark, you have an 07, stock IC, stock DV, right?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (sactown_a3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sactown_a3* »_
I do not.

I think your issue is completely different or at least related to fuel some how. 
I am exploring the not meeting requested boost logs with Stage 2 v2.1 for 06's and stage v1.0 for 07's.
To summarize, your car has had fuel cut issues on stage 2 v2.0 and v2.1 correct? How was it on stage 1?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Well there are two issues...fuel cuts and not meeting requested.
The not meeting requested it would be interesting to see if those were the FMIC cars.
The fuel cuts were pretty consistent across all configurations yes no?

yes, that is what I am attempting to sort currently. Fuel cut is easy to fix, its an oem warranty issue, susperceded part or calibration being too aggressive.
the meeting request is what is the most concerning and I need to resolve this first, imo.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I do not have a FMIC.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
yes, that is what I am attempting to sort currently. Fuel cut is easy to fix, its an oem warranty issue, susperceded part or calibration being too aggressive.
the meeting request is what is the most concerning and I need to resolve this first, imo.

Personally my car going into limp mode as I'm passing someone is more concerning than not being able to meet requsted boost


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (PeteA3)*

I fully agree. Fuel cuts are VERY important to me. I felt like attempting to return my exhaust and software after it happened to me. Trying to pass on a 2 lane non-divided highway and your fuel cuts out. I almost died. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
If a fix is not ready soon I'm going to be very unimpressed. Not meeting requested boost is amazingly insignificant compared to fuel cuts.


_Modified by teriba at 8:54 AM 9-5-2007_


----------



## Got_Turbo (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Does everyone that is having this issue have an intercooler installed?

No IC here. I know you think i have a boost leak, but i'm not so sure. I've had this code on and off since i first got flashed with stage 1 about a year ago. it was totally random then. i get it all the time now with the exhaust and stage 2 flash. Ive replace both my PCV and my DV, even though they both appeared to be in good order...
Can you tell what version i'm running? I'm pretty sure i dont have the OY update. That and cars in Canada are a bit weird i think. Mine is an 07 up here, but I'm pretty sure its the same as the US 06's...
I've also never had a fuel cut.
Thanks for your help!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_

That adds another thing to the mix. I'm running my forge DV and not the OEM DV. Do you still have the forge? Could you test it?
Mark, you have an 07, stock IC, stock DV, right?

I sent that thing back, so I can't test it. Weird thing is I hold boost tighter than you at the redline. Might be because the turbo never stops spooling and yours gets a slight break after you hit requested. 
Ebahn suggests not pressure testing over 7psi or damage will occur. If I understand this correctly then ~14.5 + 7 = ~21.5. So this might be the max boost OEM components can handle. Hence the reason VW is constantly trying to update the DV, PVC? The pump they use has also been discontinued... interesting.
Sorry, just thinking out-loud here.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Spongebobnopants)*

Pressure testing pump?


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Pressure testing pump?

Pressure testing the charge side of the turbo.


----------



## sactown_a3 (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I think your issue is completely different or at least related to fuel some how. 
I am exploring the not meeting requested boost logs with Stage 2 v2.1 for 06's and stage v1.0 for 07's.
To summarize, your car has had fuel cut issues on stage 2 v2.0 and v2.1 correct? How was it on stage 1?

When I first went to stage ii I had a lot of trouble with fuel cut. Got the Audi I3 reflash. Then reflashed several times, most recently with 2+. I have not experienced any fuel cuts in a while. My AWE boost guage only shows I'm hitting 15psi.
I don't recall any fuel cuts on stage 1 as I wasn't stage 1 very long








My AWE boost guage is only showing that I hit 15 psi...








Here is my first attempt at a pretty graph...











_Modified by sactown_a3 at 10:34 PM 9/5/2007_


----------



## gtiiiiiiii (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_WTF, am I the only one with a working setup?

no mine works awesome, its just that people who's apr works aren't going to post about it not working..... so you see the problem here.
Besides, vwvortex does not contain every person to ever purchase apr.
So far I've read maybe 10 complaints... Realistically that just is not alot of complaints.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: (sactown_a3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sactown_a3* »_
When I first went to stage ii I had a lot of trouble with fuel cut. Got the Audi I3 reflash. Then reflashed several times, most recently with 2+. I have not experienced any fuel cuts in a while. My AWE boost guage only shows I'm hitting 15psi.
I don't recall any fuel cuts on stage 1 as I wasn't stage 1 very long








My AWE boost guage is only showing that I hit 15 psi...








Here is my first attempt at a pretty graph...









_Modified by sactown_a3 at 10:34 PM 9/5/2007_

That looks perfect!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

This boost does not look like SW 2.1. It looks like v2.0. Of which people were not having problems.
Boost looks similar to mine with the FMIC and version 2.0.


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (gtiiiiiiii)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtiiiiiiii* »_
no mine works awesome

Whats the difference between 91 and 93 octane? Can you technically run more boost with a higher octane or is it all timing related?


----------



## sactown_a3 (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_This boost does not look like SW 2.1. It looks like v2.0. Of which people were not having problems.
Boost looks similar to mine with the FMIC and version 2.0.

Got reflashed again today.... verified I'm on 2.1
I do not have a FMIC... yet








Here are my 2.0 vs 2.1 comparisons...


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

First one I've seen without FMIC...looks like stage 2 is just too aggressive for some or there's another bug or issue.
Very nice work on that chart thanks!


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

Stage 2, stock IC, no problems at all. No fuel cut, never under requested boost.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (sactown_a3)*

Houston... We have a problem. 
APR 2.0 SW is like the mild mannered nerdy schoolgirl that had glasses, was awkward, and in the band. Over the summer she had a makeover and got really really hot, slutty, dressed like a tramp and became the naughty 2.1 SW that she said she'd never be. Her waste-gate is now getting pegged when She does her WOT!
Maybe Monday morning things at APR will get re-prioritized. Can APR PLEASE show what the log should look like or just admit that you don't have any! Im getting really tired of hearing how busy you guys are working on new products, vs. supporting the ones that people have already paid for. 
Please tell us the extra stress on the turbo and the temps are just fine. In other threads Stephen has asked blatant APR haters to call him directly yet has refused to return my 3 calls to him throughout these ongoing issues.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (veedubtek)*



veedubtek said:


> Stage 2, stock IC, no problems at all. No fuel cut, never under requested boost.
> Looks like the problem is starting to isolate itself to '06's then. Assuming you are an '07 making that much boost with stage 2.0.
> Also do you have a Forge DV?
> iF not what rev of the DV/PCV?
> ...


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

veedubtek's car is an 07...confirmed from another one of these 2.1 issues posts.
Looks like the 06's just might be the common ground here! Glad this was discovered BEFORE I got flashed!


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

yup, 07.
Stock c dv, stock g pcv, no wg tweaks
85 degrees, dry, 1040 atmospheric
There are some 07's with problems, but I'm thinking it's something else


----------



## AndorGLI (Jul 29, 2007)

quick newb question:
since i have the 2.1 chip in now in my gli and i'm fuel cutting majorly, would my car run faster in the 1/4 with the v2.0 instead of the 2.1 program?


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (AndorGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AndorGLI* »_quick newb question:
since i have the 2.1 chip in now in my gli and i'm fuel cutting majorly, would my car run faster in the 1/4 with the v2.0 instead of the 2.1 program?

2.1 should be faster since you should only be hitting fuel cut in 5th or 6th in higher RPMs


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (majid)*

Yeah, From what I hear, if your are hitting FC in the lower gears with 2.1 you may have the cam-lobe problem. Log to Fuel in Vag-com.

A 1/4 mile shouldn't be anything higher than 4th gear.


----------



## .:R:. (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

someone start a poll


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_Houston... We have a problem. 
APR 2.0 SW is like the mild mannered nerdy schoolgirl that had glasses, was awkward, and in the band. Over the summer she had a makeover and got really really hot, slutty, dressed like a tramp and became the naughty 2.1 SW that she said she'd never be. Her waste-gate is now getting pegged when She does her WOT!
Maybe Monday morning things at APR will get re-prioritized. Can APR PLEASE show what the log should look like or just admit that you don't have any! Im getting really tired of hearing how busy you guys are working on new products, vs. supporting the ones that people have already paid for. 
Please tell us the extra stress on the turbo and the temps are just fine. In other threads Stephen has asked blatant APR haters to call him directly yet has refused to return my 3 calls to him throughout these ongoing issues.

Funny analogy!








As discussed in our email conversations I hope to have a resolution this week. I am coordinating the arrival of the vehicle that the engineers can use to quickly configure it in the necessary manner to collect the data we need. I still do not have an 06 stage 2 v2.1 in house in a trim level that allows me to datalog what we need nor do any previous logs incorporate our new intercooler.
From our last correspondence I was under the impression we were waiting for the results of our logging this week. Has this changed?
If you would like to talk to someone in regards to this issue you have my email, work phone, cell phone and aim screenname. Stephen is our President and CEO and I am responsible for all things customer service so I would be the best to contact via phone. Please understand we are not a small business with an owner/operator but a corporation with a few layers of management with specialized responsibilities.








I have made some progress by collecting datalogs remotely of v2.0 cars that were working perfectly and then having them go to v2.1 to see the difference. I've got some things narrowed down and at this point we need to verify the logs in house.
Thus far everything seems to be heading towards what I hypothisized initially which is that the summer heat has pushed the turbo beyond its ability to meet request and this needs to be reigned in a bit. I still need confirmation this is the case from engineering and then we will begin moving towards a speedy resolution.


----------



## AndorGLI (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (majid)*

yeah i only hit FC when i'm under 4krpm's in 4th gear and at the end of 5th and 6th i hit FC but some times when i run my car all the way to redline ( when racing ) i sometimes FC and sometimes nothing happends. i was trying to show my friend and my car wouldn't FC and i was flying!!!! but than like 30 min later is started to FC again.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I still do not have an 06 stage 2 v2.1 in house in a trim level that allows me to datalog what we need nor do any previous logs incorporate our new intercooler.

This contradicts multiple conversations with Andy and Tom. In fact, I asked Tom Flat out 4 times three different ways if logs existed. This was right before that non-customer service oriented, put me on friggin hold for 30 minutes never to return person told me to make my own inter-cooler hose cause thats not what you guys do.


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
From our last correspondence I was under the impression we were waiting for the results of our logging this week. Has this changed?

Nope it hasn't, just like our previous conversation where you said it would take two weeks for new code if that was the problem. Two weeks is next Monday.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Any Updates? Progress?


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Hopefully things can be worked out and I get get my new software soon! I have 2.0 and I'm loving it...hopefully 2.1a is released before end of next week!


----------



## aimeelover (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

I'm really scared about all this fuel cut that apr's sw produces. Everyone else that I talk to that has other sw says they never hit it. This is very deterent of me purchasing their product. Secondly, why would I buy their sw when this fuel cut is such a common factor and I have to purchase a $1000 high pressure fuel pump just so my car runs the way everyone else's is without it? PLease , some answers.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

See this thread. The fuel cut isn't necessarily a bad thing...saves the motor.
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...nt=51


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

So that beta file that he mentions in that is it available now? I'd like that quite a bit.


----------



## aimeelover (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (teriba)*

We have discovered opportunities in the ecu to increase fuel pressure from 110 bar to 130 bar. This results in higher overall fuel pressure so the demands in the low and midrange can be satisfied by having more pressure so when the pressure dips due to the demand it will not dip as far and fuel cut will be avoided. This is a relatively new discovery that is currently being integrated into all of our calibrations. In the USA we have been offering a "beta" version of our stage 2+ programming that incorporates the additional fuel pressure and fuel cuts are greatly diminished and only occur very rarely with significantly more power delivery in the low and midrange. The testing is complete and we are now working to provide new files with absolutely no fuel cuts but with almost all of the power available to be had by the oem turbo.
This is from their Beta program and 2.1 is revised Beta that is still getting fuel cuts. When will this new file that *rarely* gets fuel cut file be released? 
Ya know rarely still is not good enough for me.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (aimeelover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aimeelover* »_Ya know rarely still is not good enough for me.










Then get the pump, or switch switch software.


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
Then get the pump, or switch switch software.









I'd rather they just made software that worked with a stock pump.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (teriba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teriba* »_
I'd rather they just made software that worked with a stock pump.

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...nt=51
Well according to the link above, thats only possible by running in a lean mode that is dangerous for the engine because it wares on the cars life. I suppose they could detune it but that would probably piss everyone off... I mean, you could just go back to stage 1 software with the DP. I still felt a gain and I have the most insensitive butt dynos on the market.


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (Arin)*

I would gladly run a "detuned" program than risk my life on the highway again with this stage 2 program which obviously has never been tested.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (teriba)*

Researching things further is showing something in common on all the 2.1 APR flashed cars. All cars not hitting requested boost seem to have a 3" DP and 3" exhaust. Those with 3"DP and less than 3" exhaust hit requested.
Can anyone explain this relation?


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Boy, if this is proved to be a software issue, there are going to be some fists flying.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

If that's true I'm going back for 2.1!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_If that's true I'm going back for 2.1!

Yeah, but then you'd probably get Fuel cut.... the other complaint with people meeting requested boost.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_Researching things further is showing something in common on all the 2.1 APR flashed cars. All cars not hitting requested boost seem to have a 3" DP and 3" exhaust. Those with 3"DP and less than 3" exhaust hit requested.
Can anyone explain this relation?

Back pressure difference??
Yes, I have stock exhaust with the APR down pipe and I don't have a boost issue.

_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Yeah, but then you'd probably get Fuel cut.... the other complaint with people meeting requested boost. 

True, I had fuel cut/limp mode with v2.0 and now it is just extremely more frequent with v2.1.
I'm convinced it's a software issue and I believe with time APR will solve the issues. Hopefully soon, because as teriba has said, it is definitely risky on the highway and two lane roads when you pass with v2.1 or even v2.0 - it may go or it may not


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I haven't hit fuel cut with 2.0 yet.
And I'm not gonna rush on the 2.1 until APR gives their blessing.


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_Researching things further is showing something in common on all the 2.1 APR flashed cars. All cars not hitting requested boost seem to have a 3" DP and 3" exhaust. Those with 3"DP and less than 3" exhaust hit requested.
Can anyone explain this relation?

Good observation!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*

Now if APR would only return my calls or at least respond here!








Finally talked to Keith. New testing date due to rain this week by them. Tuesday next week.


_Modified by Spongebobnopants at 5:02 PM 9-13-2007_


----------



## petethegreat (Mar 28, 2006)

*lol!*

i SOLD MY CAR 2 MONTHS AGO, And i havnt been in these forums in a while .....some things never change!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_
Good observation!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks,
The other thing I am noticing is a slight higher pitched hum from the engine once I get in the upper RPM's of a pull. 
I hope this is the fuel pump. I have never heard it before. Now that the pumps is doing 130mbar, is it possible to hear this. You have to listen very selectively and it only comes on late in the RPM's. I have heard of people mentioning the turbo sound like a dentist drill when its about to go. This does not sound that high pitched. My turbo is probably spinning faster then it ever has though.
Can anyone confirm if you can hear the FP or does this sound like the turbo. Again it is not really high pitched but, enough of a pitch that you can selectively hear it separate the exhaust and intake.


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Is anyone else haveing these limp mode problems running software other than APR?


----------



## Supplicium (Jan 26, 2005)

I hope APR has figured it out and will have a new tune for me to get at h2oi.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I ran 2.0 upstate this past weekend, no cels or issues to report...ran like a champ even with 4 people in the car.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

APR should have started the testing today.
Keith, any updates?


----------



## shue333 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (teriba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teriba* »_I would gladly run a "detuned" program than risk my life on the highway again with this stage 2 program which obviously has never been tested.

fuel cut almost killed you on the highway?








if fuel cut only happens at WOT, just let off the pedal a bit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i mean, seriously, though.


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (shue333)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shue333* »_
fuel cut almost killed you on the highway?








if fuel cut only happens at WOT, just let off the pedal a bit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i mean, seriously, though.

He is not talking about fuel trim. He is talking about the Limp mode that happens.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*

shue333 - Back in the day before the AUDI update and this new software, true, you could just let off the gas and get through the 5500rpm range and avoid the fuel "trim" problem. Now with this new software after the update the cars go into a "limp" mode which you cannot predict when it will happen, nor can you avoid it by controlling the throttle. It's happened to me in both WOT and just getting into the gas...totally unpredictable and very unsafe in passing conditions.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_APR should have started the testing today.
Keith, any updates?

Well it looks like they didn't do the testing yesterday as promised. Keith also promised to call me if there was going to be ANY DELAY. I never heard from him.
Apparently the new facility, new Fuel Pumps, etc... are getting in the way of APR being able to support their customers.
Andy has just IM'd me and asked that I go back to 2.0 instead of them fixing it....lol
The true colors are starting to show. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Well it looks like they didn't do the testing yesterday as promised. Keith also promised to call me if there was going to be ANY DELAY. I never heard from him.
Apparently the new facility, new Fuel Pumps, etc... are getting in the way of APR being able to support their customers.
Andy has just IM'd me and asked that I go back to 2.0 instead of them fixing it....lol
The true colors are starting to show. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

We can't control if the test car doesn't come in at a certain time, this would cause delays yes. 
I asked you if you had tried to go back to APR V.20 until we get the V2.1 looked at. Its not a cop-out in anyway, and it will definitely not be "Instead of fixing". 
We told you that we will get this worked out for you, unfortunately it is taking longer than expected. In no way at all does this mean we aren't doing something to get this looked into. 
Please bare with us and we will keep everyone updated as soon as we have a look into it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
We can't control if the test car doesn't come in at a certain time, this would cause delays yes. 
I asked you if you had tried to go back to APR V.20 until we get the V2.1 looked at. Its not a cop-out in anyway, and it will definitely not be "Instead of fixing". 
We told you that we will get this worked out for you, unfortunately it is taking longer than expected. In no way at all does this mean we aren't doing something to get this looked into. 
Please bare with us and we will keep everyone updated as soon as we have a look into it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

APR Excuse #1... It was raining. Is your dyno outdoors?
APR Excuse #2... It didn't show up. Why? Keith personally told me that it would be there and if there was any issue he would call me and give me a heads up.
Andy... Should I just post all of your guys lame/contradictive correspondence here?
Has anyone at APR heard of a deadline? All I ask is for honesty, I gave you guys so many chances to fix this before it became public knowledge that you guys have a SW bug, but you just kept blowing it off. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Sponge you may be upset but you won't get very far with personal attacks or thinking that customers can set deadlines.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_Sponge you may be upset but you won't get very far with personal attacks or thinking that customers can set deadlines. 

This is not a personal attack. Yes, I am upset that they are not taking this seriously. I did not set the deadline. Keith did! On both instances. On the inter-cooler hose... I have heard 3 excuses.. all different form 3 APR employees.
Look back through some 2.1 threads and see that the 2.1 SW was months late from what they said.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

I'm equally frustrated Spongebobnopants, but if APR says they are doing what they can, then we just have to wait and deal with what we are told. Flaring tempers on either side will not solve the issue...putting pressure on them helps to motivate the issue to a conclusion, but flinging poo, no matter how big a pile, will not.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Please bare with us and we will keep everyone updated as soon as we have a look into it. 

I'm on your side sponge, APR just needs to resolve this boost and limp mode issue ASAP.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

double post


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
APR Excuse #1... It was raining. Is your dyno outdoors?
APR Excuse #2... It didn't show up. Why? Keith personally told me that it would be there and if there was any issue he would call me and give me a heads up.
Andy... Should I just post all of your guys lame/contradictive correspondence here?
Has anyone at APR heard of a deadline? All I ask is for honesty, I gave you guys so many chances to fix this before it became public knowledge that you guys have a SW bug, but you just kept blowing it off. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


Datalogging is done while driving to ensure drivability, not on a dyno.
Delays happen. I apologize. If this business was easy, you would be tuning your car yourself.
I apologize for not calling you and I really don't know why I promised to, that was my first mistake, as I typically don't get to dial out during a work day anyways.
The suggestion of returning to the v2.0 was to satisfy your immediate concerns with v2.1 since we are unable to accomplish the revision in a time frame that is satisfactory to you. You can then go back to v2.1 once its revised. It was option given to you to help ease the apparent distress this is causing you.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

While the delays on the 2.1 sucks, APR has always been there for each and every customer. They are more than willing to go the extra mile for customer satisfaction and 99% of the time it shows.
Delays happen as Keith said...Rome wasn't built in a day. Its a problem, it will get addressed. I as well as a few other people would love to see it fixed sooner rather than later but wouldn't want it rushed either. Give it time...go 2.0, and enjoy it while they figure everything out.


----------



## aimeelover (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Rome wasn't built in a day. 

It was'nt? J/K Hey Tom, how are you liking your 2.0 SW? Details? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (aimeelover)*

I just got to add...everyone is saying go 2.0 for now until 2.1 is fixed. The problem for me is...even 2.0 went into limp mode







, so for me, there is no going away from the issue until the new revision.
So I'll sit quietly now and wait


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: (aimeelover)*

SICK! Loving 2.0. Power everywhere, the whole car just feels like more of an animal. If 2.0 is this good, can't wait to see what all the fuss over 2.1 is about!


----------



## aimeelover (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_SICK! Loving 2.0. Power everywhere, the whole car just feels like more of an animal. If 2.0 is this good, can't wait to see what all the fuss over 2.1 is about!

I think this will be my route for now then. Will be crossing my fingers.


----------



## ExPunkStar (May 14, 2007)

*Re: (PeteA3)*

*Question for Keith @ APR*
I had my down pipe installed on June 15th 2007 and ecu reflash to Stage II, but I'm not sure which version I have. Any ideas what version was available on that date for the 06' GTI?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (ExPunkStar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ExPunkStar* »_*Question for Keith @ APR*
I had my down pipe installed on June 15th 2007 and ecu reflash to Stage II, but I'm not sure which version I have. Any ideas what version was available on that date for the 06' GTI?

I know you said, [email protected], but I will be more than happy to look this up for you. If you want to PM me your name and where it was flashed, I will get this information to you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

Keith,
Thank you for having Chris get back at me. Great service as usual and I promise you tons of logs if it will in any way help you out with this. Before anything gets installed I plan on doing stock, stage 1, stage 2, and 2.1 . Well thats Walt's plan I should say. Thanks again


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (ExPunkStar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ExPunkStar* »_*Question for Keith @ APR*
I had my down pipe installed on June 15th 2007 and ecu reflash to Stage II, but I'm not sure which version I have. Any ideas what version was available on that date for the 06' GTI?

Hope my PM helped you out ExPunkStar. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ExPunkStar (May 14, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Hope my PM helped you out ExPunkStar. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yah. Looks like I'm current. Any news on a more aggressive 2.x+ upgrade that is tested and stable with a stock fuel pump?
Mines running great now with with the Forge DV. It was initially a little quirky when upgraded to 2+ and the DV was switched, but your software seems to have re-calibrated well to accept it, because I no longer have those weird jitters where the car seemed to cut out between shifts. I threw a CEL exactly a week after the upgrade/DV install, and everything has been great ever since. Really responsive, and lots of power.
I'd also like to add that after switching to the Dbilas intake, replacing my Carbonio which was on for exactly 1 year, the power feels greatly improved through the entire RPM band. I know you guys are partnered with Carbonio, but I gotta say, to make your software shine, you should be pushing Dbilas as an alternative. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by ExPunkStar at 4:47 PM 9-19-2007_


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

How many miles do the cars that are going into limp mode have?


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_How many miles do the cars that are going into limp mode have?

92,500 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (majid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majid* »_92,500 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Thanks,
The other thing I am noticing is a slight higher pitched hum from the engine once I get in the upper RPM's of a pull. 
I hope this is the fuel pump. I have never heard it before. Now that the pumps is doing 130mbar, is it possible to hear this. You have to listen very selectively and it only comes on late in the RPM's. I have heard of people mentioning the turbo sound like a dentist drill when its about to go. This does not sound that high pitched. My turbo is probably spinning faster then it ever has though.
Can anyone confirm if you can hear the FP or does this sound like the turbo. Again it is not really high pitched but, enough of a pitch that you can selectively hear it separate the exhaust and intake.

I have isolated the to start at around 5500-red-line. It seems to be a little more pronounced, not sure though. I'd like to redefine the noise as more of a muffled buzz. This is very close to when the fuel is at 130mbar. I hope I just have GOOD EARS. Still could be the turbo though. I went back to stock mode and it was gone.


----------



## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

Where is the ***ing fuel pump???????


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (csih)*

Open you're hood and it is on the right side of the motor just below the right edge of the engine cover








But seriously.....it must still be in quality control testing.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Don't rush them. They won't release it if its not right, there is a lot riding on this one. If there is a problem with the pump it has the potential to cause major damage. Best just wait patiently for a solid product.


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_How many miles do the cars that are going into limp mode have?

4000


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (shue333)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shue333* »_
fuel cut almost killed you on the highway?








if fuel cut only happens at WOT, just let off the pedal a bit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i mean, seriously, though.

That doesn't work. It's like I took my foot completely off the pedal and nothing will give me ANY power for 5-10 seconds as it gets itself out of limp mode. It's freakin crazy on the highway when oncoming traffic is coming at you. You have to just push yourself back into your own lane and then apologize to the people behind you as you decelerate to 20.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (teriba)*

Wait a minute... so what you are saying is that when this happened, pushing on the throttle wouldn't do anything? In my experience, in limp mode, you should at least have ~5psi available.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (ruso)*

Yes, atleast for me, pushing on throttle you get NO response, the car makes ZERO boost and the rpms are held around 1500. You have no control, no power and no idea when it will return.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (PeteA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeteA3* »_Yes, atleast for me, pushing on throttle you get NO response, the car makes ZERO boost and the rpms are held around 1500. You have no control, no power and no idea when it will return.

That isn't your typical limp mode nor does it sound like "fuel cut." That, is in fact, dangerous! Did you get any codes after that happened?


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (PeteA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeteA3* »_Yes, atleast for me, pushing on throttle you get NO response, the car makes ZERO boost and the rpms are held around 1500. You have no control, no power and no idea when it will return.

That's exactly what I got as well. No codes were thrown.


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (teriba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teriba* »_
That's exactly what I got as well. No codes were thrown.

Yes, the 0-5psi boost for 10-20seconds is the limp mode that most everyone here is talking bout.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (teriba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
That isn't your typical limp mode nor does it sound like "fuel cut." That, is in fact, dangerous! Did you get any codes after that happened?

Well, its typical for me...and yes everytime it does it it throws the ever so popular fuel regulator valve code. Depending on how severe it is, it will sometimes even kick on the CEL.
Earlier in this thread you can read my description of the problem and see that the car has had its cam checked and fuel pump replaced by AUDI and yet it still does this....


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

When I go into limp mode it seems to be pretty consistently around 4,000rpm's in 6th gear, and no I don't have to be WOT to hit it. If I moderate the throttle around 10psi I can avoid it. Once in limp mode it depends on speed and rpm how much it will boost. Usually not more than 3-5psi and sometimes as low as 10 in the vacuum. Once I hit limp it will be at -10 but when i slow down some it will boost a little.




_Modified by majid at 5:37 PM 9-21-2007_


----------



## teriba (Dec 4, 1999)

*Re: (majid)*

Yeah, mine occured at about 4000rpm and 6th gear too. Slight incline and WOT for me.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Bump for updates and anything you guys may have on crappy shifting DSG in D under 1/2 throttle (~5-10lbs of boost)


----------



## mkvgtiblk06 (Mar 2, 2007)

Hey guys im getting my apr stage 2 flash this mon. Should i be aware of any problems with this?


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Bump for updates and anything you guys may have on crappy shifting DSG in D under 1/2 throttle (~5-10lbs of boost)

My DSG feels funny, but only sometimes. I cant actually narrow down when it happens. I use to think it was on super cold starts, but its not always. I then thought it was when it was way to hot, but its not always. I finally thought it was only in d, but sometimes its with the paddles. Either way, I cannot narrow it down. It may have something to do with the way it was initially adapted. I have no idea.
BTW I usually drive 100% in manual unless I'm texting, talking, eating or getting road head.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

It happens when I manually shift too if I shift too early. The later the better but I hate winding it out when I don't have to. Stock feels soooooo smooth now compared to the 2.0, and def feels stronger than stock without the downpipe but not quite as good as the 2.0. I like having the option to switch back and forth but would prefer a fix if possible. I miss stage 1 for that reason. It was rough initially but smoothed out. This one doesn't look like it will.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

The test drive right after putting on my DP was probably the smoothest I've ever felt in the life of the car. I gotta say, DSG is just strange feeling sometimes. It must have something to do with the way its adapted. I may try the vagcom adaptation routine myself just to see if it changes anything.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: (Arin)*

I was actually thinking of disconnecting my battery to force a new adaptation and reset to stock but I might look up how to do it vag-com now that you say it can be done that way.
Edit: I got nothin...you know where to find this information?


_Modified by NoRegrets78 at 5:47 PM 9-27-2007_


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (NoRegrets78)*

i have had my 06 gti for a few months now. immediately after i got it i had it chipped at waterfest (apr stage 1 software - stock/93/100).
my car is DSG - after the apr software i admit the car didn't shift like stock, but was pretty good - an occasional rough shift, but overall pretty good...
last weekend i installed the apr 3" turbo back exhaust and then had the software upgraded to version 2.1 testpipe file (stock/91/93 - since they don't have a 100 octane file yet.... GRRR)
well, i stopped throwing codes for cat out of efficency...but have been throwing the boost related code non stop.... and the car shifts like a bag of donkey balls







under part throttle in D.... 
not to mention i'm not exactly happy with the exhaust to begin with... i am running the "stealth" system and it tends to drone...
i am probably going to put the stock turbo back on and reflash to stage 1... i was happier that way.
oh, and i hit fuel cut every time in 6th gear around 4k rpm WOT


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

The fuel cuts are semi-normal with 2.1 they are looking into it.
The shifting on the other hand...
I am hoping there is a way to fix the shifting. 2.0 is nice except for the shifting. I hear 2.1 is worlds better and I know eventually they'll have it fixed...just hope they can do something about this tranny. I'm in stock mode for now and will try to adapt the DSG to 2.0 as a final push. If it doesn't work stock mode will stay until there is an answer.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

This it?
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/inde...ation


----------



## GLIDRIFT (Jan 25, 2007)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

alright, in response to whats going on with everyones car...this too has happened to mine..i should be picking my car up tomorrow after having the fuel pump and the intake cam replaced due to the lobes. I was having the FC as well in 5th..i have stage 2 but not sure what v. guess its time to make another trip to my chipper...but to someone that said "i just learned to deal with it..." Fk that...theres nothing scarier then trying to down shift to change lanes in a hurry and you get "LIMP" and your freaking nose is hanging out in the other lane while the 18 wheeler is coming right at you...


----------



## AtomicSushi (Jul 5, 2001)

*Re: (GLIDRIFT)*

Yeah, I'm happy with my 2.0 stage 2 though it does rough shift sometimes.
I think, in general, if you have an 06 you need to be running 2.0. 2.1 is a total PITA unless you are gonna upgrade the fuel pump.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (AtomicSushi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AtomicSushi* »_Yeah, I'm happy with my 2.0 stage 2 though it does rough shift sometimes.
I think, in general, if you have an 06 you need to be running 2.0. 2.1 is a total PITA unless you are gonna upgrade the fuel pump.


i wish i had found this thread before i installed my exhaust and had the reflash to v2.1


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_This it?
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/inde...ation

Careful on that link, it takes you to ONE part of a sequential procedure.
_NOTE: Be sure to perform the following steps in the sequence shown, followed by the defined test drive._
Main DSG Link
Vortex hates that link format











_Modified by syntrix at 8:54 AM 9-28-2007_


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Link is broken.
Trust me, I have no intention of doing any procedure until someone credible tells me yes you can do this and yes it works. I was talking to a friend of mine on 2.1 with DSG (07) and he said he got rough shifts for about a week and it smoothed out. Maybe I didn't give it enough time? Maybe I was in manual too much and didn't give D a chance to adapt. I'm gonna give it a week and not touch manual unless I have to for whatever reason and just leave it in D and see where this goes.
And 2.1 is where it's at...wish I had it. I hear the difference between 2.0 and 2.1 is night and day. 2.0 is a small improvement, 2.1 is like being chipped all over again. This is coming from people who have had both so yea, I'm dying for 2.1.


----------



## sactown_a3 (Nov 15, 2006)

Weather has cooled off considerably where I am. About 60 degrees last night. I was able to havin some fun on the roads and went WOT in 5th and 6th... I was expecting to hit the fuel cut but did not... First time with the 2.1+ that I have been able to WOT in 5th and 6th. Hit 130 pretty fast. Lotta fun.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (sactown_a3)*

i cant floor my car without it throwing a code at this point... i'm just not getting close enough to requested...i could have a blown DV or something, but judging by the number of complaints in this thread...i'll blame the software....uck....


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (mwwVW)*

The problem is definitely the fuel system. It is not the software. I can say this with a lot of certainty. For a good list of mods, logs, and list of all replaced parts see:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3414297
As of today I have the APR fuel pump installed and running. Before the installation of the pump my waste gate was tweaked back to stock. Now keep in mind I was lucky hitting 18psi and throwing boost codes before the waste gate tweak. Put the pump in and re-flashed with v2.1 for the pump.
(Thanks [email protected]) All I can say is BUY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am spiking 21psi and holding around 20psi for an extremely long time. Logs tomorrow hopefully. Oh and of course NO limp mode http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
If you have a problem with the v2.1 deal with it or get v2.0 (or the pump of course). It seems the issue is purely fuel related if I am all of the sudden able to boost 21psi. If its consistent with the way mine was you were already doing 110mph when fuel cut hit anyway. 
Anyways, thanks to Keith, Andy, and everybody else at APR for a great product and I can't wait for the upgraded power flash.










_Modified by majid at 12:35 AM 9-29-2007_


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (majid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majid* »_
If you have a problem with the v2.1 deal with it or get v2.0 (or the pump of course).
_Modified by majid at 12:35 AM 9-29-2007_

This statement is totally unacceptable. If I by a DP and get the software for it, I should have no issues. Either way, 2.0 or 2.1, my car went into limp mode. I shouldn't have to buy a fuel pump to not have limp mode occur. The key here is that I'm not asking for the most power I can get, I'm asking for more power than Stg 1 and no limp mode. Sure, If I want all that I can squeeze out of this stock turbo and what not, then I should buy the fuel pump. I'm just tired of hearing that my only option to solve my stage 2 problem is to buy a $1000 pump.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (PeteA3)*

i'd be happy to buy the fuel pump if apr would also recalibrate the tranny computer...but as it is right now the DSG is already pissed off at me for bumping power levels and not giving it any TLC....


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (PeteA3)*

OK, every time I say this people think I'm crazy. I think there is something different between the 06 and the 07 in the fuel system that is either wearing out or just plain doesn't provide enough fuel. I would like to say it was the fuel pump or the cam, but I had both replaced already with the updated part numbers. I believe most 07 folks having boost problems are because of the DV or PCV. It would be cool if people could post up years and type of problem to prove me right/wrong. If you *were* hitting 21psi and your not now that is most likely PCV or DV. If you never hit boost that high and have both replaced I really would like to hear about it. Especially if your an 07 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oh yeah, just so everybody knows I now have about 91,000 on it. I think I posted somewhere wrong a week or so ago saying 92,500


_Modified by majid at 12:55 AM 9-29-2007_


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (majid)*

Glad your back in the game. From your posted logs, it looked like you indeed had fuel pump issues that others were not seeing.
I, like others here have to point out it is SW. According to Brett, you must be running new SW to allow the pump to work. IE: your old 2.1 SW and the pump wouldn't get your boost back.
So, If I understand this correctly, 2.1SW running correctly is really $1000 plus install fees for existing 2.0 customers.
For Already existing 2.1 customers add months of excess wear and frustration for being sent down the wrong path from APR support to fix a problem they are aware of but won't admit.... That my friend, a price can't be put on.


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
To correctly accommodate the larger pump you must make changes to the high pressure pump parameters. This will allow the pump to run correctly and keep the feedback loop within range. *These changes alone on an otherwise identical tune would prevent one from ever hitting fuel cut.* To make more power, you will need to make further changes to the calibration to take advantage of the extra fueling headroom that is available.

That all depends on weather or not you think APR would take the time to change the whole flash or just the parameters needed for the fuel pump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (majid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majid* »_That all depends on weather or not you think APR would take the time to change the whole flash or just the parameters needed for the fuel pump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Dude, Brett's an APR engineer. LOL.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
Dude, Brett's an APR engineer. LOL.

Which genius engineer measured the IC hose for DSG? Are you saying APR is exempt from mistakes?


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_Which genius engineer measured the IC hose for DSG? Are you saying APR is exempt from mistakes?

Um, I don't even rememeber saying that. Quit your crying already, we've all heard enough about your intercooler issues.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
Um, I don't even rememeber saying that. Quit your crying already, we've all heard enough about your intercooler issues.

Sorry bud, I originally didn't think my issues were from the hose. APR did. Then continued to blame every other part of my car till other people started pointing out the same issues. 
1. Not meeting request boost (codes thrown)
2. Fuel cut (dangerous and unsafe)
If I upset you, I apologize.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Lets not turn this into a pis sing match. We all know there are issues with 2.1 and APR has agreed to look into it. Lets give them time to figure it out.
What's done is done, now is the time for repair not fighting.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (majid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majid* »_The problem is definitely the fuel system. It is not the software. I can say this with a lot of certainty. For a good list of mods, logs, and list of all replaced parts see:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3414297
As of today I have the APR fuel pump installed and running. Before the installation of the pump my waste gate was tweaked back to stock. Now keep in mind I was lucky hitting 18psi and throwing boost codes before the waste gate tweak. Put the pump in and re-flashed with v2.1 for the pump.
(Thanks [email protected]) All I can say is BUY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am spiking 21psi and holding around 20psi for an extremely long time. Logs tomorrow hopefully. Oh and of course NO limp mode http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

^^^^this one is my favorite


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (ruso)*

Some thing doesn't add up here. These can't all be 6th gear pulls? Are we comparing apples to apples. Higher gears are going to hold higher boost. Anyhow FP looks like it was holding better before according to these.
Id like to see a 3rd or 4th gear comparison.


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_Some thing doesn't add up here. These can't all be 6th gear pulls? Are we comparing apples to apples. Higher gears are going to hold higher boost. Anyhow FP looks like it was holding better before according to these.
Id like to see a 3rd or 4th gear comparison.

Those first 2 graphs are 3rd gear pulls. 
Are you saying you think FP held better before the pump? Have you seen a normal FP log?


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (veedubtek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_
Those first 2 graphs are 3rd gear pulls. 
Are you saying you think FP held better before the pump? Have you seen a normal FP log? 

Sorry, I thought the first two were from before. It looks like the new 2.1 file is asking for 120mbar of fuel much earlier than the original 2.1 file. It seems that it still not hitting requested boost in third still.


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

It is off almost 1psi the full length of the log. Before it was 3 to 4 psi all the way through. I'm still holding 20psi at 4k and 16 at 5k. I would say huge improvement http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SDM (Aug 9, 2007)

Majid, in a earlier post you referenced a "power" software upgrade, do you not get that when the pump is installed, or is that a 2006 vs 2007 issue?


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (SDM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDM* »_Majid, in a earlier post you referenced a "power" software upgrade, do you not get that when the pump is installed, or is that a 2006 vs 2007 issue?


There will be upgraded software available for all of them, it's just not ready yet. I believe only certain 07's are available right now for the upgrade file.


----------



## rukkus (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: (veedubtek)*

i was talking to keith today at h20 when i went to get my car flashed with stage 2 and he stated the revised 2.1 file could possibly get released monday or tuesday.


----------



## SDM (Aug 9, 2007)

Any idea what the upgraded 2.1 file is called, I'm getting the pump on Tuesday and was told a few days ago by the APR dealer that the new software was already available that takes advantage of the new pump.


----------



## Malick (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (SDM)*

I am having the same problem as many people here. I have a 2007 GTI with full APR exhaust and Stage 2 software. I keep throwing the check engine because of fuel system errors. Should I just bite the bullet and buy the APR fuel pump, wait for a software upgrade, or just go back to stage 1 for the time being? I know what the engine light means at least but it is still annoying that it is on.


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (Malick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Malick* »_I am having the same problem as many people here. I have a 2007 GTI with full APR exhaust and Stage 2 software. I keep throwing the check engine because of fuel system errors. Should I just bite the bullet and buy the APR fuel pump, wait for a software upgrade, or just go back to stage 1 for the time being? I know what the engine light means at least but it is still annoying that it is on.

*NO*
You bought software designed to work with your car. Why should you have to spend another $1,000 to have it work correctly?
I hate posting stuff like this, but I'm sure many others can agree (if they haven't switched brands already, and yes, many have done so.
-----
edit: i see you have an 07, most 2.1 iirc in this thread is 06. Still doesn't change the issue though.



_Modified by syntrix at 7:52 PM 9-30-2007_


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

So whats the deal, they need to revise their Stage 2 programming to make it more safe for stock pump, and then make a 2.1 style more agressive for the apr pump? or do they already have a different set of programming for apr pump customers?
EDIT: the only problem i have atm is the stupid intake flapper motor. I have engine light on and off.







any companies want to fix this with an aftermarket part?


----------



## Malick (Aug 14, 2007)

@ syntrix
Good points. I think I am going to put it into stock mode for the time being until a software update is released. I don't want to mess up the fuel system.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Malick)*

Wait, what code and cel are you throwing?
When I hit a fuel cut, there is no CEL. Also the only time I hit a fuel cut is if I have it in 6th or 5th and go WOT down low.


----------



## Malick (Aug 14, 2007)

Fuel Mixture error and an Overboost
APR said the Fuel Mix error was caused by the Fuel pump not keeping up.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Malick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Malick* »_@ syntrix
Good points. I think I am going to put it into stock mode for the time being until a software update is released. I don't want to mess up the fuel system.

Yeah, just don't hold your breath till then. People started complaining almost immediately when the 2.1 file came out. 
APR's 2.0 for the '06 was a bit weak in my opinion for a stage 2. They de-tuned around the fuel limitation. Other tuners were more aggresive in their stage 2 my leaning up the mixture and clearly leapfrogging APR. APR's only defense was to put down the other tuners telling them they were running dangerous EGT temps and that these tunes were unsafe.
So in the mean time APR has this beta file that is supposed to be on par with the others. The caveat to the beta was Fuel cuts. Of which APR claims are not harmful to the car, but never considered the dangerous situation this puts the driver in.
Then APR announces a production 2.1 version that won't have fuel cuts. Upon being flashed with this file many of us realized that the file was requesting unacheivable amounts of boost in 3rd and 4th gear. This keeps the N75 (WG) pegged at 94.9 throughout many tested pulls. EGT's were as high and higher than other tuners SW that was belittled for being unsafe.
Now that APR is running those temps they must be safe...
Additionally, some are still getting fuel cut. I am sure I can speak for many that I don't have it in me to give this company another $1000 to get the car to the point where it was supposed to be in the first place.


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

I see a lot of you complaining about "having to spend $1000" to get rid of fuel cut. This will also give you more horsepower too. So you wont' be where you were supposed to be in the first place, you'll be ahead.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_I see a lot of you complaining about "having to spend $1000" to get rid of fuel cut. This will also give you more horsepower too. So you wont' be where you were supposed to be in the first place, you'll be ahead.

Thats to be determined. We have seen no proof and the claims always have the K04 inserted when peak HP/TQ are mentioned. There is not much more to be had with a K03. This is why people are looking at meth/nitrous solutions. Basically having to spend the $1000 to eliminate FC's that were already claimed to be eliminated would be considered "bait and switch" and is illegal in the U.S.
I had plans to buy this pump from APR as I knew I would eventually go K04 or BT. However, I will not be forced into buying their pump to get what I originally bought into. I refuse to support these business ethics.


----------



## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

+1 Spongebobnopants


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Any updates APR?
I still have faith that everything will be sorted in the end. They are a great company and they really do show they care about their customers which means a lot to me. Hopefully we'll have an update on the 2.1 issues this week.
On a side note...shifting on my DSG has mildly improved. I've been forcing myself to drive in D in all situations just in hopes of the tranny learning the new power. It's gotten better there's no doubt but its still not quite there. Hopefully soon. I would like to see APR address the DSG concerns with a new tranny flash but who knows if they even have that capability.
So again...bump for any information APR has to provide.


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Thats to be determined. We have seen no proof and the claims always have the K04 inserted when peak HP/TQ are mentioned. There is not much more to be had with a K03. This is why people are looking at meth/nitrous solutions. Basically having to spend the $1000 to eliminate FC's that were already claimed to be eliminated would be considered "bait and switch" and is illegal in the U.S.
I had plans to buy this pump from APR as I knew I would eventually go K04 or BT. However, I will not be forced into buying their pump to get what I originally bought into. I refuse to support these business ethics.

How can anyone prove anything on this forum? Anytime something is posted on the forums as proof there are several people that request additional graphs, the weather conditions, 5 day forecast, pant sizes and weight of dyno attendies, etc. theres never anything good enough on these forums for people.
What exactly did you originally buy in to, *originally*? APR Stage 1? Or did you jump right into APR Stage 2?


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_
How can anyone prove anything on this forum? Anytime something is posted on the forums as proof there are several people that request additional graphs, the weather conditions, 5 day forecast, pant sizes and weight of dyno attendies, etc. theres never anything good enough on these forums for people.
What exactly did you originally buy in to, *originally*? APR Stage 1? Or did you jump right into APR Stage 2?

I started at stage 1. there a a few threads that have my story. 
The Point is: The production 2.1 file is a standalone product, separate of the pump. It exists because the 2.0 file was weak compared to the competition. It should be corrected to work on its own.


----------



## mkvgtiblk06 (Mar 2, 2007)

I just got off the phone with Andy from APR and he said that they are in the process of fixing the v2.1. It should be done withing this Month the latest my guess.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: (mkvgtiblk06)*

Thank you for calling. Was gonna do that today but work is really busy right now with this VoIP roll out.


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
I started at stage 1. there a a few threads that have my story. 
The Point is: The production 2.1 file is a standalone product, separate of the pump. It exists because the 2.0 file was weak compared to the competition. It should be corrected to work on its own. 


I think it a bit unfair though to claim poor business ethics and such when they don't even charge for newer versions of their software. I think if they release a new version of a software as beta, and then it comes out of beta and has problems, you should go back to a safe version and be patient for them to fix it while reminding them from time to time of your interest and hope they can provide a fix/update that can rectify the situation. There is also no basis to claim they're trying to get people to buy the APR fuel pump because of fuel cuts in 2.1 software. They're designing software for the fuel pump seperately. It is known the stock fuel pump is pretty weak.


_Modified by SLY MK5 at 5:10 PM 10-1-2007_


----------



## SPEC-01 (May 5, 2006)

*Re: (mkvgtiblk06)*

Well guys I thought I would let you all know that APR is in fact checking this out and working on the requested vs. actual variance as we speak. My car has been in Auburn since Wednesday night and I am hopefull that all will be great when I get it back later this week. As soon as I have the car back I will get some logs and perhaps even some dyno graphs to post up for your viewing pleasure. All this being said, I just wanted you all to know that they are in fact assessing the issue and I am sure that there will be more updates soon. I intended to get this posted earlier but I have been quite busy...sorry for the delay. Thanks for your time.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_
I think it a bit unfair though to claim poor business ethics and such when they don't even charge for newer versions of their software.
_Modified by SLY MK5 at 5:10 PM 10-1-2007_

Free SW upgrades have nothing to do with ethics. That is a something they just do. Keep in mind many APR dealers take advantage of this and whack you with a $50-$100 charge to upgrade or re-flash for 10 min worth of work. I've paid about $150 in flashes with APR, It was never disclosed to me that there was a charge for this. Is that ethical?


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_I think if they release a new version of a software as beta, and then it comes out of beta and has problems, you should go back to a safe version and be patient for them to fix it while reminding them from time to time of your interest and hope they can provide a fix/update that can rectify the situation. 

Everyone has been waiting... and waiting, and waiting... Summer has come and gone. I think if people dump a ton of money into a product and have already paid. That companies priority should be to supporting products that people have paid for, even if it puts other products on hold. They made this choice, not me. Do you know how many people brought up these same complaints in the past that ended up nowhere because of APR FANBOIS?


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_ There is also no basis to claim they're trying to get people to buy the APR fuel pump because of fuel cuts in 2.1 software. They're designing software for the fuel pump seperately. It is known the stock fuel pump is pretty weak.

Oh yeah, then why does the new FP file w/fuel pump fix the FC issue before they fixed the already existing 2.1 production file for the '06? Let me guess, cause the original production 2.1 file will need to get de-tuned to eliminate FC?
I suggest we debate ethics offline as this little conversation helps nobody looking for answers.


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

You blame APR for a shops ethics? How does that make any sense?
How do "APR FANBOIS" hold back a company from providing support to its customers? 
I have no clue where you get your information for the fule pump fix. The new FP file w/fuel pump only works on 07 models. There is no 06 yet and it is going to take up to two months for it to come out. I wonder why? Maybe because they actually are working on the 2.1 fix while certain people are bashing them, claiming their doing nothing just because they don't hear anything...


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*

i don't understand why someone from apr hasn't popped in to say "we are fixing this...sorry guys for any problems you are having"..


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_You blame APR for a shops ethics? How does that make any sense?

APR signs up dealers... Not the other way around. I went to the APR Website to find a dealer. I didn't call 50 shops and ask if they sell APR. An APR dealer is an extension of APR. I know of competitors that don't charge for re-flashes. APR has some dealers that don't charge for re-flashed and I commend them. 


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_How do "APR FANBOIS" hold back a company from providing support to its customers?

Your showing us right now. You are doing nothing but blindly defending APR. Other just gave up because of the nonsense coming people like you.

_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_There is no 06 yet and it is going to take up to two months for it to come out. I wonder why? 

Have you not see the posts above about the '06 fixed from the FP???












_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_Maybe because they actually are working on the 2.1 fix while certain people are bashing them, claiming their doing nothing just because they don't hear anything...

Oh they are doing something. Im sure they are busy. My last 4 emails to APR have had zero response.


----------



## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

I agree with you 110% i had several conversations with them in the past but i know Keith will not do anything but bs you around. Maybe Andy can help push things along he is the only one that seems to care but i will be surprised if the get it worked out this month. I won't hold my breath. i am surprised Andy has not posted though. I have just given up with APR so i will be switching to giac soon.


_Modified by RSGLI at 5:48 PM 10-1-2007_


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Still can't believe you're blaming a APR for a shop charging you labor. that has nothing whatsoever to do with APR. I'm sorry, I guess APR must be getting a percentage of those hourly labor fees somewhere along the way. Damn you APR! While we're at it, lets blame VWOA for the dealers charges for certain things. I'm sure its all their fault why one dealer charges $60 for an oil change and another dealer charges $100. 
There is no post above referencing 06 fixed fuel pump software. Maybe you're not reading correctly. Again: there is only a 07 fix out right now. *There is no 06 YET*.
What do you expect emails to do? I wouldn't count on emails to be very effective at all. Additionally, the attitude with which you've put towards APR makes you very hard to work with anyway. This is your own fault. I wouldn't expect them to contact you again until they have the fix finalized. There is only so much you can say to an unreasonably irate customer.
This has nothing to do with even defending any company. This has to do with some of you getting so overworked you don't even make any sense as you cry and pity party. WAKE UP! CHILL OUT! BE PATIENT!


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_
There is no post above referencing 06 fixed fuel pump software. Maybe you're not reading correctly. Again: there is only a 07 fix out right now. *There is no 06 YET*.


I mostly agree with everything you've said, but look at the second post on this page and look at the last page. I fixed an 06 with the FP








And FWIW, we don't charge anything for reflashes.


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (veedubtek)*

Sorry, I read this:

_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_

There will be upgraded software available for all of them, it's just not ready yet. I believe only certain 07's are available right now for the upgrade file. 

and as that was the last mention of anything I didn't go farther back. Plus the 2nd post on this page was 07 GTI and I didn't realize he was posting for another person that has 06 GLI. Is that a beta fix for 06 and it is not officially out or is it officially out?
(asking because I've felt the craving for an APR fuel pump but don't want to get it without software being available for it)



_Modified by SLY MK5 at 8:56 PM 10-1-2007_


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_Sorry, I read this:
and as that was the last mention of anything I didn't go farther back. Plus the 2nd post on this page was 07 GTI and I didn't realize he was posting for another person that has 06 GLI. Is that a beta fix for 06 and it is not officially out or is it officially out?
(asking because I've felt the craving for an APR fuel pump but don't want to get it without software being available for it)
_Modified by SLY MK5 at 8:56 PM 10-1-2007_


Ahh, I see what you're saying. There is a flash for the 06, it's just not the increased performance flash. It is merely a flash for the FP to run ok. It alone works beautifully...I can't wait til the upgrade flash is done to see what it does. 
Ruso is our graph bitch







I can't work excel to save my life. Although I got pretty close while I was waiting for him to finish those


----------



## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*

Well i under stand what you are saying about the labor prices on flashes you have a great point APR dealer have the right to charge for a re flash. i have had sw problems for a while and you can only be patient for so long.Keith has been giving him the run around for a while. What if you have had a problem with something you bought and the company kept giving you the run around for several months i think you would be upset as well. I think he as been patient for a while and he had every right to be mad. It is crazy for APR dealers to charge of a re flash after spending 599.00 i know how much they make off of flashes and as much money as they make they should not charge anything. So for all the dealer that charge http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif.


_Modified by RSGLI at 6:19 PM 10-1-2007_


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_Sorry, I read this:
and as that was the last mention of anything I didn't go farther back. Plus the 2nd post on this page was 07 GTI and I didn't realize he was posting for another person that has 06 GLI._Modified by SLY MK5 at 8:56 PM 10-1-2007_

Exactly... Like I said "blindly defending" What's your new stance on this? I'll give you time to start from the beginning so you can soak it all in. Once you have accomplished that, I can pass on the other threads that went nowhere with people just like you offering NOTHING!
kudos to veedubtek's no-charge policy for re-flashes. Some dealers don't realize that the little things can go a long way. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (RSGLI)*

OK this is my whip that has the fuel pump. Number 1 when I was flashed with the 2.1 *the day it came out* the dealer(not veedubtek) told me there was a chance for fuel cut. Me being so power craving didn't give a f***. "Give me the more powerful one". I'm sure many people did the same thing and are now complaining. Number 2 all of these other companies are having the same fuel cut issues. Go ahead and get their products. All I know is I'm going to have at least a KO4 and about 300,000 miles before any anything major goes wrong with my engine thanks to APR. I wouldn't try to do that with anybody else's product and believe it would actually happen. Oh yeah and spongebob, go buy somebody else's product so you will hopefully quit posting on APR related pages. You think you know everything and you don't.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (veedubtek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_Ruso is our graph bitch







I can't work excel to save my life. Although I got pretty close while I was waiting for him to finish those


----------



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_Exactly... Like I said "blindly defending" What's your new stance on this? I'll give you time to start from the beginning so you can soak it all in. Once you have accomplished that, I can pass on the other threads that went nowhere with people just like you offering NOTHING!

Again, I'm not trying to defend anything. I'm trying to get you to see with a fresh pair of eyes. You've been so worked up; you need to chill out. Think about it, you've been blaming APR for everything now up to labor charges. I've never said their 2.1 isn't faulty, so I'm not defending that. Only thing I've ever said in this thread is that I haven't personally had any issues that I can relate to the 2.1 software. Even if I was defending APR in that they need less heat as they work to provide a fix, thats hardly blindly defending. They have a previous version you can/should be using in the mean time.
And just to give you a hard time, my new stance on the FP fix is that it isn't the performance version.










_Modified by SLY MK5 at 6:59 AM 10-2-2007_


----------



## Malick (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*

I just decided to buy the APR Fuel Pump. I guess my mentality is this, you take a car that is stock and start messing with the internals it is going to end up costing some money. I would rather pay the extra $1100 and get the "Total Package" than try to squeak by with the stock FP and the lowered performance.
I am trying to look at this with the mentality of a PC. Just because you went and spent $400 on Vista doesn't mean you have the RAM to make it run properly.


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (Malick)*

I will be buying it soon as well. Although, I have a 2006 and unsure whether the performance tuning fix for FP is out yet.
Check out this new thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3471279
Can't wait to get it


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I'd be happy with just a DSG fix for 2.0...crappy shifts suck.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_I'd be happy with just a DSG fix for 2.0...crappy shifts suck.

yeah... i am VERY unhappy with how poorly my car shifts with v2.1
downright horrible shifting...


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

The whole DSG issue, is that the same issue people with automatics have when doing mods?


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_The whole DSG issue, is that the same issue people with automatics have when doing mods?

i personally think the problem is that these tuning companies need to recalibrate the trans computer as well.....
if you buy a domestic, such as a vette, you can easily tune both the engine AND automatic trans with a solution such as HP Tuners.... if you step up the HP substantially the trans computer usually needs some TLC....to better match shift points and firmness...


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (mwwVW)*

While DSG shift wise is far superior, these issues make me feel better for skipping any chance of running into problems by going manual.
(not starting DSG versus Manual, clearly stated DSG shifts faster than my granny shifting







)


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*

My guess is that the shifting has to do with load tables. ME9 in stock form will always try to shift around 2K in "D" Mode and it is silky smooth.
I noticed APR's 2.1 '06 file would do the same, however due to the load tables are dif. the shifts felt premature and harsh with the same throttle %. having both the 6speed file and the DSG file on my car, I could tell not dif. in the harshness of shifting between the two. APR has also said these files are tuned the same.
This may also be why people can't VAG-DYNO "block 120" with APR SW.
I do know other tuners can get DSG to shift as smooth as stock with no adaptation needed.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*

i have forever been a manual trans owner - driver... until DSG....the combination of convenience, efficiency, and super fasts shifts sold me.... but now knowing how much of a pain in the ass it is when i start to bump the power makes me wish i was driving a stick again...
i'm probably just going to go back to stage 1 software...remove the turbo back and wait patiently for the 135i


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (mwwVW)*

Ah don't remind me of 135i. This coming year, so many options. STI, EVO, 135i, G8 GT


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

i want a 135i


----------



## Revo Technical (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re: (mwwVW)*

We'd love to get your car running properly with your existing setup! Give us a call.
No reason to remove mods... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I've heard Revo owners say shifting is fine with them. I REALLY REALLY do not want to switch but these shifts make me nervous, plus I'd be out almost 900 bucks.
We'll see what APR does. If they can get 2.1 fixed with proper shifting I stay, if not...may be time to cut my losses.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_I've heard Revo owners say shifting is fine with them. I REALLY REALLY do not want to switch but these shifts make me nervous, plus I'd be out almost 900 bucks.
We'll see what APR does. If they can get 2.1 fixed with proper shifting I stay, if not...may be time to cut my losses.

i'm in the same boat...i'd love to stay with APR since i know they will be offering fuel pump specific software - unsure if revo, etc will be offering the same - and i would be losing out on the money initially invested as well







its a shame you can't swap ECU's in these car's like i could in my 01 wolfsburg..


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_I've heard Revo owners say shifting is fine with them. I REALLY REALLY do not want to switch but these shifts make me nervous, plus I'd be out almost 900 bucks.
We'll see what APR does. If they can get 2.1 fixed with proper shifting I stay, if not...may be time to cut my losses.

A chipped DSG car seldom shifts exactly like it does in stock mode. How hard is yours shifting? Could there be premature damage done to the DSG by it shifting so hard, with the increase power going through it?


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

No damage...stock mode is smooth as silk, and if i manually shift higher rpms its fine. Its the map that's off. It's trying to shift too soon under too much torque. Its a drop in speed followed by a loud hard bang into the next gear.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (mwwVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwVW* »_
i'm in the same boat...i'd love to stay with APR since i know they will be offering fuel pump specific software - unsure if revo, etc will be offering the same - and i would be losing out on the money initially invested as well







its a shame you can't swap ECU's in these car's like i could in my 01 wolfsburg..

We will have fuel pump specific software tuned to take advantage of the extra fuel from a performance stand point. We have been working with Autotech from the beginning of their R&D of their fuel pump and have them in several of our vehicles both in the US and UK.
You can actually still swap out the ECMs however it would require going to the dealer.


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_No damage... ... Its a drop in speed followed by a loud hard bang into the next gear.

Are you sure there is no damage caused by the "loud hard bang into the next gear"? I'm sure you driveshafts love you! I have a Revo flashed stg2 DSG car, and it shifts pretty smooth.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
You can actually still swap out the ECMs however it would require going to the dealer.

yeah....that's what i'm gettin at... i could do it easily on my 01 w/ just my hex-com...didn't even need the SKC...


_Modified by mwwVW at 3:54 PM 10-2-2007_


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*

when the car shifts rough, it is ROUGH...like "wow - is that going to break something?" rough...


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (mwwVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwVW* »_
yeah....that's what i'm gettin out... i could do it easily on my 01 w/ just my hex-com...didn't even need the SKC...

Right, you'd still need to go there for keys and other immo issues but the ECM can be swapped out without it. Still have my 00 so I enjoy that ease of swapping. 02 and on is when it became a pain with the SKC and then later when they no longer gave them out or even had access to the SKCs themselves. Really annoying.
Many people believe that the ECMs cannot be swapped at all in the MK5 chassis cars, but there are procedures to do it.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Right, you'd still need to go there for keys and other immo issues but the ECM can be swapped out without it. Still have my 00 so I enjoy that ease of swapping. 02 and on is when it became a pain with the SKC and then later when they no longer gave them out or even had access to the SKCs themselves. Really annoying.
Many people believe that the ECMs cannot be swapped at all in the MK5 chassis cars, but there are procedures to do it.

oh i follow you....i knew the dealer could swap them...just not at home...diy style.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_
Are you sure there is no damage caused by the "loud hard bang into the next gear"? I'm sure you driveshafts love you! I have a Revo flashed stg2 DSG car, and it shifts pretty smooth. 

I don't do it constantly, I try to shift manual where I can or just take it ez, but that's not why I spent the money on the flash. I don't want to take it ez and I don't want to have to shift all the time, its why I got DSG.
If APR doesn't say anything about this by Friday I'll call the shop and see what's going on. It's easier for me to post than get on the phone while I'm at work.


----------



## AtomicSushi (Jul 5, 2001)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_No damage...stock mode is smooth as silk, and if i manually shift higher rpms its fine. Its the map that's off. It's trying to shift too soon under too much torque. Its a drop in speed followed by a loud hard bang into the next gear.

Yeah, same problem here. If I take it easy its fine and if I shift manually a higher RPM its fine but 1/2 throttle in D mode shifts roughly.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

K, on my way home it seems to have gotten pretty bad...back to stock I go.
APR HURRY!!!


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_K, on my way home it seems to have gotten pretty bad...back to stock I go.
APR HURRY!!!

Revo has a sale going on for flash and for the sps+ unit at the moment.


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_
Revo has a sale going on for flash and for the sps+ unit at the moment.









http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3466680
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Trust me, if APR doesn't fix this DSG thing by the end of October...I might just be heading that way.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

Spoke to AJ this morning. The engineers are aware of the DSG issues and will be looking into that as well.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_The engineers are aware of the DSG issues and will be looking into that as well.

What to you mean by aware of the DSG issue? Did they acknowledge that the DSG is looking for something they have changed or did they just say that they understand some people have rough shifts? I would like someone who actually know for a fact how it shifts, applies pressure, etc, to chime in. I want to learn!








Like I said, mine has rough shifts on occasion, but its not every single time as some have described.
BTW, even though is been stated that the numbers are altered this is an APR STAGE 1 dyno showing the torque output well above what one would expect it to be, at least down low.:











_Modified by Arin at 12:21 PM 10-3-2007_


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

07's shift better from what I've been told by a few owners. I have a friend with 07 and the beta file and he swears its fine. Dunno what's up with that.
Its not a constant thing but its definitely there. Its under load, I'd say 1/4 to 1/2 throttle under 5-15lbs boost. You can also tell on take offs and in parking lots how its different from stock. It's just crappy all around. That's my main gripe at this point. If I floor it and take it to redline, its fine, if I drive like a granny, its fine. But who deals in absolutes like that in daily driving?
APR touts smooth OEM like driveability. It's one of the many reasons I went with them. Its all I ask for.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Ok boys and girls. Spoke with Keith, they're really close to finishing up the 2.1 testing. Should be done by the beginning of next week. Hang in there 2.1 guys!
As far as the DSG stuff, he said they'll be looking into it after the 2.1 is done, so here's hoping!


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Ok boys and girls. Spoke with Keith, they're really close to finishing up the 2.1 testing. Should be done by the beginning of next week. Hang in there 2.1 guys!
As far as the DSG stuff, he said they'll be looking into it after the 2.1 is done, so here's hoping!

the only thing that makes me wonder is... if they say they are going to look into the DSG issues after they "finish" v2.1 --- who says the problem w/ the rough shifting isn't in the v2.1 code itself?


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (mwwVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwVW* »_
the only thing that makes me wonder is... if they say they are going to look into the DSG issues after they "finish" v2.1 --- who says the problem w/ the rough shifting isn't in the v2.1 code itself?

At this point, based off what is in here, [mod edit] link to copyrighted material removed [/mod edit] , we are assuming that the DSG looks for the engine torque numbers to deal with shifting, clutch pressure, etc. APR's software, to the best of my knowledge, reports a close to stock looking torque curve, rather than the beefed up curve we would expect to see with all the modifications. I think this is done to avoid dealerships detecting a chipped car not in stock mode since tech can tell by loggin the torque block.



_Modified by iThread at 10:55 AM 10-4-2007_


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Dunno.


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (mwwVW)*

If APR has DSG issues, what was all the hoopla about their special DSG specific tune?


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*

Hoooopppplaaaaaaaaaah!


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Hoooopppplaaaaaaaaaah!


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

WTF is with the guy with the pipe?


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_If APR has DSG issues, what was all the hoopla about their special DSG specific tune?

it just has to do with the way you select the program.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
it just has to do with the way you select the program.

please be more specific.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (mwwVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwVW* »_
please be more specific.


I remember reading this a while back. spongebobnopants had the 6mt file on his dsg. Searched for it and found it:

_Quote, originally posted by *Tom/APR* »_
Also, the DSG and 6spd files are IDENTICAL from a performance standpoint. The only difference in them deals with the way the program switching works. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by Arin at 8:25 AM 10-5-2007_


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (Arin)*

^^^^
Posted after arin's quotes, on 10/4/2007:

_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Ok boys and girls. Spoke with Keith, they're really close to finishing up the 2.1 testing. Should be done by the beginning of next week. Hang in there 2.1 guys!
As far as the DSG stuff, he said they'll be looking into it after the 2.1 is done, so here's hoping!


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_^^^^
Posted after arin's quotes, on 10/4/2007:


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_









Basically when you had the 6 speed file on DSG the ESP light would stay on.. IE:ESP would be automatically disabled when you switched programs. turning the car off again would rectify this.
Other than that the file logged and felt the same as the DSG file. IE: DSG shifting per load was most likely overlooked by APR or it didn't feel like it was that big of deal as they don't own a DGS to test internally and likely unaware of how it shifts in stock day to day in stock mode.
I noticed the shifting issue immediately, but I was too busy sorting out other issues to mention it here.
If indeed DSG shifts based on load, then this may be a large undertaking. 
APR must have the true loads masked so dealers can't see or so other tuners can't see what APR is doing to the load tables. I doubt if is the first as they have the option to put stock mode on our cars. 
As the community here starts to educate themselves and learn more, don't be surprised if some tuners start to get tight lipped.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

this is why the evo x is so appealing to me... 300 factory warrantied HP...with a DSG.... too bad its a mitsu and so damn ugly, oh, and way overpriced..


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Do you think the load tables just affect the shifting points in regular D, or do you think even in manual mode it affects other shifting aspects? I drive almost 100% in manual mode, and when I was stage 2 and stage 1 I had rough shifts from time to time. Thus far in stage 2, test pipe + fuel pump performance mode, i have not run into it as much. If I get time, I'll run a log of the load tables and post the raw file/graph.
BTW If anyone needs a copy of the technical dsg booklet, send me a pm.


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (mwwVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwVW* »_this is why the evo x is so appealing to me... 300 factory warrantied HP...with a DSG.... too bad its a mitsu and so damn ugly, oh, and way overpriced..

not to be off topic but it looks a lot better than the new STI. Evo improved its looks while STI decreased http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_
not to be off topic but it looks a lot better than the new STI. Evo improved its looks while STI decreased http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Agreed! DSG/AWD/300stock HP should be interesting. These things usually need a hefty clutch drop to get going.
The new little BMW is looking kinda nice right now. Been a while since I've done RWD.
Sorry! Back on topic.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

What's interesting to me is that Revo doesn't suffer from rough shifts on DSG and their load tables aren't masked like APRs is...meaning the dyno block does actually work on Vag-COM.
It could be as simple as them reversing their policy on that and allowing that table to be read normally by the ECU, which would allow the TCM to adjust shift points.
I noticed something today:
Stock mode seems to hold gears longer under load than the chipped file does. Don't know if that means anything.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Agreed! DSG/AWD/300stock HP should be interesting. These things usually need a hefty clutch drop to get going.
The new little BMW is looking kinda nice right now. Been a while since I've done RWD.
Sorry! Back on topic.



i LOVE the 135i http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AtomicSushi (Jul 5, 2001)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_What's interesting to me is that Revo doesn't suffer from rough shifts on DSG and their load tables aren't masked like APRs is...meaning the dyno block does actually work on Vag-COM.
It could be as simple as them reversing their policy on that and allowing that table to be read normally by the ECU, which would allow the TCM to adjust shift points.


That's quite annoying. If proper DSG functionality requires seeing the load tables (which APR specifically masks) then I'm a little dissapointed with APR. I went with them specifically because I trusted them not to overlook stuff like that.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: (AtomicSushi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AtomicSushi* »_
That's quite annoying. If proper DSG functionality requires seeing the load tables (which APR specifically masks) then I'm a little dissapointed with APR. I went with them specifically because I trusted them not to overlook stuff like that.


Just keep in mind I'm talking out of my bum and meerly making a guess as to what could be wrong. I honestly have no idea what's going on and I'm sure the engineers over at apr know worlds more than I do about what could be wrong.


----------



## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (ruso)*

(edited) I was being rude....I am sure they will get it figured out for you guys.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (VWAUDITEK)*

APR-
Any updates on the testing of the new file?? Still testing, almost finished, had to put it aside for something else, ran out of money and its moth balled....pick one.
Sorry, just frustrated, as my car went into limp mode twice on the way home from work today and it threw the CEL again....took 5 miles before it came back to me this time, it was an enjoyable ride home


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Have faith brother...APR won't let us down!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Have faith brother...APR won't let us down!

I got mine fixed! Meeting boost! WG Duty and EGT's are all in check. The car is noticeably faster than APR 2.0 and right in line with the APR 2.1 file.


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
I got mine fixed! Meeting boost! WG Duty and EGT's are all in check. The car is noticeably faster than APR 2.0 and right in line with the APR 2.1 file.










Looks Great!!!!!!


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

If Revo can do it, you KNOW APR can! Lets see what they come up with.


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_

Looks Great!!!!!! 


Aren't you Revo'd with the exact same problems?


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
I got mine fixed! Meeting boost! WG Duty and EGT's are all in check. The car is noticeably faster than APR 2.0 and right in line with the APR 2.1 file.









Wait, why is request so low for stage 2? I thought it hit above 20, inline with your actual. That looks like stage 1 requests with stage 2 actual...


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (veedubtek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_
Aren't you Revo'd with the exact same problems? 

Not at all. With APR 2.1 my WG was pegged at 94.9 the who time because I could never hit requested. Here I am able to hit requested without the additional stress on the turbo. 
With APR 2.0 I would peak at about 18-19.


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Not at all. With APR 2.1 my WG was pegged at 94.9 the who time because I could never hit requested. *Here I am able to hit requested without the additional stress on the turbo.* 
With APR 2.0 I would peak at about 18-19.

You switched from APR to REVO?


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Ok boys and girls. Spoke with Keith, they're really close to finishing up the 2.1 testing. Should be done by the beginning of next week. Hang in there 2.1 guys!
As far as the DSG stuff, he said they'll be looking into it after the 2.1 is done, so here's hoping!

Beginning of the week is now. Any updates NoRegrets78?


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (veedubtek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_
Aren't you Revo'd with the exact same problems? 

With reasonable SPS settings I have always been able to meet or exceed requested boost.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
Wait, why is request so low for stage 2? I thought it hit above 20, inline with your actual. That looks like stage 1 requests with stage 2 actual... 

I adjusted the boost to cater to my mods. It seems that every '06 car with a 3" TBE will have peak boost limitations. 
Many people would consider these SPS settings mild. The thing you don't see here is that The only thing APR can do with the production 2.1 file on '06's is to lower the requested boost so that it can be achieved.
With Revo, the A/F is adjusted safely (lower EGT's than APR 2.1) to get the speed and eliminate FC.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_
You switched from APR to REVO? 

Yeah, I got tired of of my emails, phone calls, and IM's falling on DEAF EARS all the way to the top. 
You know when the everyone clams up with NO response, something is up. This is the thanks for putting ALL APR products in my car.
I do hope they fix this for the rest of you out their, but log carefully, cause unless they change tuning Philosophy's they will likely just de-tune, or get you to buy a FP... which has not been proven to get boost back.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Sponge, I still don't see how you could not hit the boost with one software and hit it with another. If your waste gate is closed, and the turbo is spinning just as hard, how could it not meet request? Has anyone ever figured that out? Is it somehow spinning must faster with the revo software, so much so that your wastegate is never even closed? Please pardon my ignorance.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Haven't heard anything yet...keep ears open.
I really don't think they'll just detune...they have to remain competitive in this market.


----------



## SPEC-01 (May 5, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

I am not sure that tuning philosophy is the catch. Think about it this way...if this is specific to the 06 models couldn't it potentially be a hardware difference rather than a tuning difference. If so, then there really may need to be a hardware upgrade (i.e. fuel pump or something else perhaps). As I remember it, there have been some folks having issues with fuel cut on REVO equipped cars too correct? Does anyone know what their settings were when this happened? Were the affected cars 06 models? 
As a side note, I am just posting thoughts here in an attempt to better understand the limiting factor of the 06 models? This is not intended to be a fanboy or fight inducing post to either party!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Haven't heard anything yet...keep ears open.
I really don't think they'll just detune...they have to remain competitive in this market.

Well, they have a few options:
There are a few things that they can do, but they all involve deviating from their standard tuning philosophy.
If it was easy they would have done it already. They are in a difficult situation that in the end will result in a little humble pie. <---my prediction.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I don't care what pie they eat as long as the end result is a working file and DSG fix!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (SPEC-01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SPEC-01* »_I am not sure that tuning philosophy is the catch. Think about it this way...if this is specific to the 06 models couldn't it potentially be a hardware difference rather than a tuning difference. If so, then there really may need to be a hardware upgrade (i.e. fuel pump or something else perhaps). As I remember it, there have been some folks having issues with fuel cut on REVO equipped cars too correct? Does anyone know what their settings were when this happened? Were the affected cars 06 models? 
As a side note, I am just posting thoughts here in an attempt to better understand the limiting factor of the 06 models? This is not intended to be a fanboy or fight inducing post to either party!

The info I have collected is this:
1. '06 and '07 have different tunes. Maybe APR can clarify the details.
2. '06's that can't meet requested boost all have 3" TBE
3. I have seen APR Beta II logs that differ from APR 2.1 logs. This alone makes me wonder.
4. No data has been presented that Revo hits fuel cuts with the proper settings and a good OEM pump.
5. I am not a fanboy of any kind really. I call it like I see it.


----------



## Revo Technical (Jan 9, 2003)

Glad you're happy with the tune, Spongebob


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Sponge, can you do a WOT 4th gear log starting around 1500 rpms?


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Sponge, can you do a WOT 4th gear log starting around 1500 rpms?

I can try, what are you looking for with a 4th gear pull that you won't see in a 3rd?


----------



## Revo Technical (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
I can try, what are you looking for with a 4th gear pull that you won't see in a 3rd?


Jailtime!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Robin @ Revo Technik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Robin @ Revo Technik* »_
Jailtime!









Yeah, I'm not big on those speeds, I'm going to look at the test and tune nights for the local track. Maybe I can get it there sometime soon.


----------



## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: (Robin @ Revo Technik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Robin @ Revo Technik* »_
Jailtime!









LOL


----------



## SPEC-01 (May 5, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

It seems strange that the 3" TBE (which I have by the way) would do this. I have my stock cat-back in the attic and could refit it and try some things when I get the car back from APR (though with the HF pump and tuning it won't be a true test of 2.1). I wonder if anyone running 2.1 has a stock cat-back and 3" DP installed. If so, do they hit fuel cut? Just thinking outloud again...


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (SPEC-01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SPEC-01* »_It seems strange that the 3" TBE (which I have by the way) would do this. I have my stock cat-back in the attic and could refit it and try some things when I get the car back from APR (though with the HF pump and tuning it won't be a true test of 2.1). I wonder if anyone running 2.1 has a stock cat-back and 3" DP installed. If so, do they hit fuel cut? Just thinking outloud again...

I was this, 07, dsg, 2.0, 3" DP, stock cat back, and hit fuel cuts.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I never had any problems with 2.0 other than the dsg issue. I have APR's 3" downpipe going to the stock catback and a carbonio intake scoop with ITG filter.


----------



## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_I never had any problems with 2.0 other than the dsg issue. I have APR's 3" downpipe going to the stock catback and a carbonio intake scoop with ITG filter.

There have been a lot of happy owners with chipped DSGs ever since the tuners starting coming with their software. I have been one of them, although I have never denied that it has been a little bit harsh on the DSG, and this is APR stage 1 (had two different versions) for 93 octane. 
Never driven a stage II DSG, but I can imagine that the added HP and the huge torque gain would put even more stress on the transmission. 
Whatever happened to the discussions where the only solution conceived would be to modify the TCU (shift points) to match the new ECU settings? We know it adapts, but it obviously doesn't adapt well enough. 
Whatever the case, a stage 1 will hang with the new R32, and that says something. I'll still go with APR, with the "stock" file, and switch it whenever I feel like it.











_Modified by Aguilar at 1:45 PM 10-9-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

There will be a new version of stage 2 beta err, 2.1 this week or next. Development could have been accomplished Friday of last week but being the R&D machine that APR is, the engineers are continuing to evaluate and look for even more opportunity.
The dyno results have so far been even more impressive and we are finalizing the development this week. We have been making consistent power on an 06 stage 2 with an aftermarket intake and also when switching back to the oem airbox.
We also have procured a dsg GTi to begin some development as well. We won't be going into the tcu but there are some values we are looking at in the ecu.
Expect a full report of dyno graphs, logs and driving impressions towards the end of this week or sometime next week for Stage 2+. As always, anyone dissasitfied with the amount of time required to accomplish these advancements may have their ecu's flashed to the current v2.0 and experience no issues what so ever.


----------



## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_There will be a new version of stage 2 beta err, 2.1 this week or next. Development could have been accomplished Friday of last week but being the R&D machine that APR is, the engineers are continuing to evaluate and look for even more opportunity.
The dyno results have so far been even more impressive and we are finalizing the development this week. We have been making consistent power on an 06 stage 2 with an aftermarket intake and also when switching back to the oem airbox.
We also have procured a dsg GTi to begin some development as well. We won't be going into the tcu but there are some values we are looking at in the ecu.
Expect a full report of dyno graphs, logs and driving impressions towards the end of this week or sometime next week for Stage 2+. As always, anyone dissasitfied with the amount of time required to accomplish these advancements may have their ecu's flashed to the current v2.0 and experience no issues what so ever.


So, another two weeks?


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Keith, are these dsg changes being evaluated and applied to stage 2 test pipe and Fuel Pump Performance files?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (ZWStewart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZWStewart* »_

So, another two weeks?


lol, no. 13 days, 24 hours!
Looking like the end of this week or first of next. If you are experiencing repetitive issues with Stage 2 v2.1 I will be happy to cover the install fee to reinstall v2.0 in the meantime until it is ready. Wait, you don't even have APR software, why are you on this thread?


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:06 PM 10-9-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Keith, are these dsg changes being evaluated and applied to stage 2 test pipe and Fuel Pump Performance files?

At this point its a little early for me to know what the changes will be applied to. We don't have a resolution for the dsg shifting as of yet and have just begun development. We have some thoughts but the testing has not proven them either way yet.
If our development determines there is a fix for the DSG shifting issues it will be applied to all DSG calibrations. FP, Stage 2, Stage 1, etc.
Can you pm me your email or shoot one off to me so I can reply? I have a request that you can help me with if you are so inclined.

_Modified by [email protected] at 7:06 PM 10-9-2007_


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:07 PM 10-9-2007_


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Do you know if the rough shifts have any relation to the load tables? I think there may be a lot of misinformation floating around, so I'd like to further learn how or why it's caused.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Do you know if the rough shifts have any relation to the load tables? I think there may be a lot of misinformation floating around, so I'd like to further learn how or why it's caused.

Until reading this thread until just now I have never even thought of the load tables or such but its not my job to either. When the results are released I will report as much as I can as to what the resolution consisted of.
With so many changes being made to many different tables I can't begin to speculate what changes are necessary. I do know it was commonly accepted that all ecu upgrades will change the dsg shifting characteristics slightly but it seems that APR's v2.1 is creating some more noticeable issues than other versions. Is it a load request at a certain point that makes it happen or is it due to the additional power, I honestly can't say but I will ask in the morning!
I do know the load request tables are a rather small part of a proper recalibration so I don't expect the fix to be found there.


----------



## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_As always, anyone dissasitfied with the amount of time required to accomplish these advancements may have their ecu's flashed to the current v2.0 and experience no issues what so ever.

I wish this was true, as I would of done it along time ago...I had the same fuel cut issues with the v2.0 software, just not as extreme. It appears to have been inherent in the code?
BUT, I am extremely happy to hear from APR and can't wait for the new revision and improvements.
Also, please tell me you are doing some open road tests along with those dyno pulls. I never experienced a cut doing a 3rd gear pull, it was always at speed in 5th or 6th and jumping on the gas to accelerate and pass.
Cheers







,
Pete


----------



## gpkid (Oct 10, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (NoRegrets78)*

I added the APR turbo back and upgraded to stage 2 last week. Today was my first real opportunity to try out the new upgrades. The cars pulls hard and feels like a totally different animal than the stock set up. Unfortunately, I am experiencing power loss in 6th gear. It doesn't matter if I am in S or D, as they both suffer from the same issue. It feels like there is no throttle control at all when it happens. It makes it impossible to pass someone on the freeway. I end up having to manually downshift to 4th or 5th to get some acceleration.
I drive an 07 DSG GTI. I am really impressed with the stage 2 gains, but I can not deal with reliablilty issues. I hope APR has an answer!


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Sponge, I still don't see how you could not hit the boost with one software and hit it with another. If your waste gate is closed, and the turbo is spinning just as hard, how could it not meet request? Has anyone ever figured that out? Is it somehow spinning must faster with the revo software, so much so that your wastegate is never even closed? Please pardon my ignorance.

He backed off the boost request, but revo is still asking for 100% N75, which is why his actual boost exceeds his requested by a significant bit. Last time I checked, 100% is more than 95%, but apparently he is more worried about the N75 tapering towards redline.
Dave


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
He backed off the boost request, but revo is still asking for 100% N75, which is why his actual boost exceeds his requested by a significant bit. Last time I checked, 100% is more than 95%, but apparently he is more worried about the N75 tapering towards redline.
Dave

He is at 100% when the turbo is just barely makeing enough boost to open the wastegate so even if it was at 0 it would be just the same as 100 since it would not consistantly keep it open. Running a lower duty cycle at that point could cause the surging or oscilation that people felt in the 1.8ts. The point is that he no longer needs to run 95% duty cycle the entire powerband in order to not even meet requested. That is what he is happy about.


----------



## SPEC-01 (May 5, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I can assure you that as soon as I get some seat time in the car that I will post up reviews and info specific to the changes. I am really looking forward to experiencing the differences and improvements. Keep me posted...


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
He backed off the boost request, but revo is still asking for 100% N75, which is why his actual boost exceeds his requested by a significant bit. Last time I checked, 100% is more than 95%, but apparently he is more worried about the N75 tapering towards redline.
Dave

Actually it's at 99.6% and you are right about the tapering. Why beat the piss out of the turbo throughout the entire gear and then the next to never hit requested. 
For the people that don't understand this completely, like me in the beginning. The higher the duty cycle = the the harder or faster the turbo needs to spin. 100%=WG closed and all exhaust goes through the turbine. When WG is < 100% some exhaust starts to bypass the turbine. 
Keith basically told me this. "If I was to road race my car or work it for an extended time at the consistent 95% duty throughout the gears, I could damage the turbo." 
He said their normal tuning would have the WG Duty peak and then hover around 80%.
Arin's Duty cycle is up there to! I'd re-log duty with the new FP!
FYI... For those of you not concerned about this ask GIAC why they changed their file and people had a few customers with blown turbos? <--I am not blaming GIAC as I don't know all the details, but I wouldn't be so quick to say:
"APR knows what they are doing and I trust my car in their hands" 
For those of you with FC, you need to log your Fuel pressure. This will determine SW or hardware. If it is SW, you need to make a decision. If you don't have VAG-COM, you should contact Ross-tech and get it.
*Use discount code "WTFAPR"
*_meant as a joke_


----------



## Autockr989 (Sep 19, 2007)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

I find my car to be one CEL after another. First PCV (the first time), then I got my TBE installed and reflashed. Next day DV went. Luckily this was a day before waterfest. Bought and installed new forge DV. then started throwing misfire codes left and right. Upgraded to iridium plugs .028 gapped. Ran fine till second PCV failed (about two months ago. Waited on back order, had replaced, put in check valve mod and now throwing FC codes. I feel it is all software related. I've been following the post and also feel a reflash will square up this issue.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Sponge, I still don't see how you could not hit the boost with one software and hit it with another. If your waste gate is closed, and the turbo is spinning just as hard, how could it not meet request? Has anyone ever figured that out? Is it somehow spinning must faster with the revo software, so much so that your wastegate is never even closed? Please pardon my ignorance.


It's easy to get more boost from a turbo - Put more energy into the turbo.
The wastegate usually has this job, but when closed 100% the only way is to put more energy into the exhaust. 
Less ignition timing = more energy in the exhaust = more boost.
Combined with more fuel can give even more boost. 
Do you want more power, or more boost????????


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

POWER!!!


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Actually it's at 99.6% and you are right about the tapering. Why beat the piss out of the turbo throughout the entire gear and then the next to never hit requested. 
 That's assuming that the wastegate actuator can keep it shut, which it can't (given the popularity of wastegate tweaks). 

_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_For the people that don't understand this completely, like me in the beginning. The higher the duty cycle = the the harder or faster the turbo needs to spin. 100%=WG closed and all exhaust goes through the turbine. When WG is < 100% some exhaust starts to bypass the turbine. 

Not necessarily, it is also dependent on timing & fueling as enginerd mentioned. Greater EGTs also help spin the turbo due to the temperature differential. 
Logs are not an accurate representation of how the car is normally driven. I, for one, do not WOT to redline in each gear for my daily drive. Logging N75 while doing your normal commute would reveal duty cycles of much less than 95%. 
That being said, REVO's recommended settings (7/5/9) have the N75 pretty much pegged at 100% throughout the RPM band. IIRC, SB has detuned his revo down to 5/1/9 to lower the N75 duty cycle to his acceptable limits.
Dave


_Modified by crew219 at 10:06 AM 10-10-2007_


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_ Greater EGTs also help spin the turbo due to the temperature differential.
Logs are not an accurate representation of how the car is normally driven. I, for one, do not WOT to redline in each gear for my daily drive. 

saved!

_Quote »_
That being said, REVO's recommended settings (7/5/9) have the N75 pretty much pegged at 100% throughout the RPM band. IIRC, SB has detuned his revo down to 5/1/9 to lower the N75 duty cycle to his acceptable limits.

Actually Dave our standard 93 octane settings are 6/5/9 for 93 octane not 7 for boost.
We have hundreds if not thousands of cars that are running those standard settings with no issues at all. What you need to remember is that the increased duty cycle on his particular car may come from the extra work the turbo has to do to overcome the volume of his intercooler, that can't be ignored. This is a BONUS to the Revo software that he can adjust his car to exactly how he wants it, which he has and he is happy. Why does he need to be attacked for using the tools he has to his advantage? His timing settings are a personal preference, I think we all here have told him he should up it







.


----------



## shue333 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (SPEC-01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SPEC-01* »_It seems strange that the 3" TBE (which I have by the way) would do this. I have my stock cat-back in the attic and could refit it and try some things when I get the car back from APR (though with the HF pump and tuning it won't be a true test of 2.1). I wonder if anyone running 2.1 has a stock cat-back and 3" DP installed. If so, do they hit fuel cut? Just thinking outloud again...

i do in fifth and sixth at WOT. i've found that if i floor it and hit 20 psi and lift mt foot to about 15 - 18 psi, no cut and it's still fast as hell.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_ That's assuming that the wastegate actuator can keep it shut, which it can't (given the popularity of wastegate tweaks). 
Not necessarily, it is also dependent on timing & fueling as enginerd mentioned. Greater EGTs also help spin the turbo due to the temperature differential.

How much greater temps do you want than these produced by the APR 2.1 file. Yes, these are Cat temps not EGT's. Even with cat temps close to 840C it is not hitting requested boost. There is simply not enough heat to help this in the lower RPM's to hit requested. You and enginerd are correct as you see the actual getting closer as temps go up in the higher RPM's, but it is still not hitting requested and probably never would with the 3"TBE IMO.
These temps are also close to or past the Turbo's spec. Kinda hard to determine that without a way to measure. However, this can be a double edges sword. Those with 3" TBE will likely have lower "real EGT temps" than those with the stock cat back.
If this is not a good indication of the need to be able to do custom tune, I don't know what is.
BTW... N75 was at 94.9% the whole time.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_

If this is not a good indication of the need to be able to do custom tune, I don't know what is.
BTW... N75 was at 94.9% the whole time.








 
ONE DAY







APR will get around to applying V-tune to the 2L TFSI hopefully







Bob.G


----------



## crazywayne311 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (NoRegrets78)*

how do you know what version software you have? all i know is i got it in april and its the stage2 software. guess i've never had any problems. blown 2 DV's. throw only 1 code for overboost and on the norm, spikes up to 23psi and hold 20-21psi then about 16 i think at redline
btw, 07 GLI Manual


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (crazywayne311)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazywayne311* »_how do you know what version software you have? all i know is i got it in april and its the stage2 software. guess i've never had any problems. blown 2 DV's. throw only 1 code for overboost and on the norm, spikes up to 23psi and hold 20-21psi then about 16 i think at redline
btw, 07 GLI Manual

If you are really holding 16 to redline, they slipped a K04 in your car when you got chipped. Your gauge is likely just inaccurate. The stock k03 won't hold more than 10 unless you have tweaked the WG. 23 PSI peak does sound like the beta file. Didn't you have FC issues before?


----------



## crazywayne311 (Jan 29, 2006)

ha! alright. i dont think my gauge is off. i'm probably off! ha! i'll have to check that tomorrow. but APR said that in 07, there was no beta file. that was ONLY for 06 MY. they then said somethin to the effect that the 07 stage 2 was the equivalent of the 06 beta version without fuel cut? i dont think i've ever hit FC but like i said, i have hit 24psi spike but 23psi is the norm at low RPM. last time i hit 24 though...car got all weird and i had no boost til i turned the car off and then it was fine


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
If you are really holding 16 to redline, they slipped a K04 in your car when you got chipped. Your gauge is likely just inaccurate. The stock k03 won't hold more than 10 unless you have tweaked the WG. 23 PSI peak does sound like the beta file. Didn't you have FC issues before?

16 at redline is way off 
here is my stage 2 vs stage 2 with fuel pump performance file:
stage 2, 10 at redline.
stage 2 Fuel Pump and performance file, 11 at redline.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

*Re: APR Stage 2.1 Problems Thread (crazywayne311)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazywayne311* »_how do you know what version software you have? all i know is i got it in april and its the stage2 software. guess i've never had any problems. blown 2 DV's. throw only 1 code for overboost and on the norm, spikes up to 23psi and hold 20-21psi then about 16 i think at redline
btw, 07 GLI Manual

Sounds like 2.1 to me. I had 2.0 and I didn't hold any where near 20. Always around 15,16.


----------



## HHBizzle (Apr 17, 2006)

So im bout to enter stage 2, should i ask for any particular file? 2.0 or 2.1? APR


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (HHBizzle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HHBizzle* »_So im bout to enter stage 2, should i ask for any particular file? 2.0 or 2.1? APR

Wait till they figure this mess out. Otherwise you will just be going back to get re-flashed. I have heard they are not flashing 2.1 06's right now because of all the complaints.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (HHBizzle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HHBizzle* »_So im bout to enter stage 2, should i ask for any particular file? 2.0 or 2.1? APR

Stage 2+ v2.0 has always been a proven recalibration with no issues. v2.1 was developed for those that wanted something more aggressive. I would suggest v2.0 and if you desire a more aggressive file, we will have a new revision for v2.1 that will superceed v2.0 as well in a short time.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Wait till they figure this mess out. Otherwise you will just be going back to get re-flashed. I have heard they are not flashing 2.1 06's right now because of all the complaints.

unfortunately this statement is a little misguided. you can still choose v2.1 if you wish.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I wouldn't do either if you're an 06 and DSG...but its your call. If you're an 07 you can get 2.0 now or wait for the 2.1 revision. Personally, I'd wait. 2.0 isn't all that compared to 2.1.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_I wouldn't do either if you're an 06 and DSG...but its your call. If you're an 07 you can get 2.0 now or wait for the 2.1 revision. Personally, I'd wait. 2.0 isn't all that compared to 2.1.

there is no v2.1 for 07's. 07 is 2.0 as it always has been and always will be. the v2.1 program is isolated to 06 models only.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Ahhhhh...didn't know that!
In that case for an 07...go for it!
For 06, i'd still hold off on 2.1, but if you're manual, go 2.0 for now if you really want to.


_Modified by NoRegrets78 at 11:45 AM 10-11-2007_


----------



## rukkus (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
there is no v2.1 for 07's. 07 is 2.0 as it always has been and always will be. the v2.1 program is isolated to 06 models only.










so there is never going to be a 2.1 for 07s? when you flashed my car at h20 you told me to get 2.0 for now as the 2.1 file isn't ready yet. (mine is an 07) if there are 2 keith's at APR, then sorry


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
there is no v2.1 for 07's. 07 is 2.0 as it always has been and always will be. the v2.1 program is isolated to 06 models only.









Why is 2.0 considered normal on an '07 and 2.1 is considered aggressive on an '06?
These files seem to ask for similar boost and fuel. What is different about the '06 that makes things more risky.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Why is 2.0 considered normal on an '07 and 2.1 is considered aggressive on an '06?
These files seem to ask for similar boost and fuel. What is different about the '06 that makes things more risky.

The 06 BETA program Uses 130bar fuel pressure and ms injector pulse is different if i remember correctly . That's what i was running for over a year before I went to the stage 3. 
I never had any fuel cut with this program as designed with the n-75controlling boost .
I did how ever experience fuel cut when i was clamping the MAP while running a MBC.







Bob.G


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
The 06 BETA program Uses 130bar fuel pressure and ms injector pulse is different if i remember correctly . That's what i was running for over a year before I went to the stage 3. 
I never had any fuel cut with this program as designed with the n-75controlling boost .
I did how ever experience fuel cut when i was clamping the MAP while running a MBC.







Bob.G

Isn't the '07 2.0 file asking for the same 130bar of fuel?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rukkus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rukkus* »_

so there is never going to be a 2.1 for 07s? when you flashed my car at h20 you told me to get 2.0 for now as the 2.1 file isn't ready yet. (mine is an 07) if there are 2 keith's at APR, then sorry









I prolly didn't ask the right question, what year is your car? I apologize for that.
From what I understand there are no issues with 07 v2.0. To all, am I incorrect?


----------



## rukkus (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i'm not having any issues as of yet. i just want even more power


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Isn't the '07 2.0 file asking for the same 130bar of fuel?

From what I understand the 07 stage 2+ requests 130 bar fp. The issues that peeps don't seem to like about 06 v2.1 is the wastegate duty cycle. Does anyone have any issue with w/g duty cycle on 07 Stage 2+?


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
From what I understand the 07 stage 2+ requests 130 bar fp. The issues that peeps don't seem to like about 06 v2.1 is the wastegate duty cycle. Does anyone have any issue with w/g duty cycle on 07 Stage 2+?

Wait, didn't Arin also get FC and a few code of not meeting requested? He has an '07.
I suspect if we were to find an '07 with 3" TBE, they would be in the same boat duty cycle wise.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Wait, didn't Arin also get FC and a few code of not meeting requested? He has an '07.
I suspect if we were to find an '07 with 3" TBE, they would be in the same boat duty cycle wise.


Arin sent me a pm stating he gets fuel cut in certain gears and he has a forge twintercooler and 3" dp to stock catback. My first question for Arin would be if he has inspected his vehicle for the likely oem issues that create fuel cut. Also, an isolated incident of one occurrance will not warrant new development. Have others experience fuel cut on 07 Stage 2+?


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Any updates on the DSG stuff? Get my reply?


----------



## gpkid (Oct 10, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I get fuel cuts in 5th and 6th gear on my 07 DSG GTI. I switched back to stock since it is not safe on the freeway. I would love for someone to fix this issue!


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

Arin sent me a pm stating he gets fuel cut in certain gears and he has a forge twintercooler and 3" dp to stock catback. My first question for Arin would be if he has inspected his vehicle for the likely oem issues that create fuel cut. Also, an isolated incident of one occurrance will not warrant new development. Have others experience fuel cut on 07 Stage 2+?

I wasnt sure what you meant by the OEM issues, but I presume its the cam lobe failure? When I swapped out my pump, the OEM pump appeard to be fine:
http://www.arinahnell.com/other/oempump/


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Arin sent me a pm stating he gets fuel cut in certain gears and he has a forge twintercooler and 3" dp to stock catback. My first question for Arin would be if he has inspected his vehicle for the likely oem issues that create fuel cut. Also, an isolated incident of one occurrance will not warrant new development. Have others experience fuel cut on 07 Stage 2+?

Keith, In this thread alone there are 6 people with '07's that claimed to have had FC. Being that the title of the thread is 2.1 problems, many others with '07's may be having the same issues with their 2.0SW.
This clearly is not an isolated incident... Just like APR's attempt to put mine under the rug and the many before me.


----------



## ExPunkStar (May 14, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Stage 2+ v2.0 has always been a proven recalibration with no issues. v2.1 was developed for those that wanted something more aggressive. I would suggest v2.0 and if you desire a more aggressive file, we will have a new revision for v2.1 that will superceed v2.0 as well in a short time.









Any ballpark estimate on the v2.1 update?
I'm running APR v2.0 on my 06, with a Dbilas CAI, full 3" APR exhaust, Forge DV, Eurojet PCV fix, Neuspeed Hi-Flow Turbo Discharge, and Neuspeed Power Pulley. The car is VERY responsive and damn aggressive, and I don't notice any of the fuel cuts. I can't speak for not meeting requested boost, as I don't have the means to generate logs or have a gauge.
Simply put, when the new v2.1 file is available please send me a PM if possible so I can get reflashed ASAP.










_Modified by ExPunkStar at 12:31 PM 10-11-2007_


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (ExPunkStar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ExPunkStar* »_
Any ballpark estimate on the v2.1 update?
_Modified by ExPunkStar at 12:31 PM 10-11-2007_

Well... I wouldn't hold my breath.
This thread was started on *08-30-07*
_-after this thread created on *08-18-07*, that started to unravel a SW issue-_
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3398449
_-This one got locked started on 06-08-07-_
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1
_-This ones issues about the DSG shifting problems people are talking about on 06-28-07-_
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3310823


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

That's great...the issues didn't go away and APR realized they had a more serious problem on their hands, hence they are FIXING it.
Yea it probably took a little longer than it should but if you consider what APR has been doing lately with the development of the fuel pump...they have been really busy. I don't know what industry you work for but here in my field, when an urgent project requires attention, and we don't have enough staff to do everything being thrown at us...things get delayed. It's just the nature of business.
Take comfort in the fact that they are now addressing the issues with the 2.1 file AND the DSG shifting. We may have been lost but not forgotten.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Keith, In this thread alone there are 6 people with '07's that claimed to have had FC. Being that the title of the thread is 2.1 problems, many others with '07's may be having the same issues with their 2.0SW.
This clearly is not an isolated incident... Just like APR's attempt to put mine under the rug and the many before me.

I don't think you have a very good understanding of what this thread is about and what we are accomplishing.
The entire point of this thread is to collect data about who is having problems with what. That is not sweeping anything under the rug.
You demanded we correct something for you immediately, didn't want to wait or give us the opportunity, so I refunded your money. You chose to play it this way, not us. You have your money back. 
06 Stage 2+ v2.1 is being recalibrated. We are collecting data in this thread about 07 stage 2+ as well. 6 people with issues out of 1348 Stage 2+ installs on 07 transverse 2.0T fsi is not much, of course I am sure all 1348 aren't on this forum, and even the small number of 6 is important to us so when we release 06 Stage 2+ we will look at 07 and more than likely release a new version for it as well.
Also, all of these occurrances are at the same time as a widespread oem fueling issue. There are several TSB's in regards to fuel cuts at the VW/Audi Dealerships and other companies that make ecu tunes for our cars are experiencing fuel cut issues as well.
I guess maybe you came into this a little late or some such but 2.0T FSI owners whether stock or modified have been dealing with minor to major fuel cut issues since owning their cars.
Something about data is that you can choose which points to highlight to make pretty much any argument you want. You need to start looking at the big picture as opposed to focusing on random data. You need to search fuel cut and look at all the fuel cut complaints on this forum.
You'll see guys that had fuel cut since they bought their car. You'll see guys that get fuel cut with our competitors. You'll see guys that fuel cut on stage 1 but not stage 2.
When these cars were released it was quickly apparent and decided upon by everyone in the aftermarket that the only final solution is an upgraded fuel pump for those that wish to mod their cars.
Everyone has released revisions to their FSI ecu calibration. When I mean everyone, I mean VW, Audi, Bugatti, APR, MTM, Sportech, Oettinger, GIAC, etc.
FSI is a new technology that alot of smart people developed for specific goals. It meets those goals handily but unfortunately for the aftermarket its not the most friendly technology from a traditional perspective.
We have been working with FSI longer than any other aftermarket company in the USA and possibly the world. We maintain all of the oem specifications for calibration procedures and component tolerances.
We have developed the first ecu recalibration, first turbo upgrade, first injector upgrade, first fuel pump upgrade, etc.
At this point all I am asking for is to have the opportunity to develop a new version of 06 Stage 2+ that incoroporates the power characteristics of v2.1 and the stability of v2.0. Our clients asked for v2.1 and we provided this as a service based on their requests. Now we are being slammed by you for responding to the requests of the community.
Next, we will develop a new version for DSG owners. Next, we will develop a new version for 07 Stage 2+.
Once this is accomplished, everyone will have APR recalibrations that maintain oem calibration procedures, make the same or better power than our competitors and incorporates more innovation, R&D and features than any other.


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_That's great...the issues didn't go away and APR realized they had a more serious problem on their hands, hence they are FIXING it.

I am only posting this because after 10 pages of this Keith didn't acknowledge their were '07 issues.

_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_
Yea it probably took a little longer than it should but if you consider what APR has been doing lately with the development of the fuel pump...they have been really busy.

Exactly... busy with other things that are more important. Everyone with a problem has already paid for their SW. This is simple economics. $$$=Motivation to get things done. Fixing something broke does not make money, it uses money. Selling those same people a new pump does make money.


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_I don't know what industry you work for but here in my field, when an urgent project requires attention, and we don't have enough staff to do everything being thrown at us...things get delayed. It's just the nature of business.

Correct. things do get delayed... New projects get held up to focus on the immediate demand of a problem from a prior commitment. _The stall tactics from the previous threads have been exhausted and are done._

_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Take comfort in the fact that they are now addressing the issues with the 2.1 file AND the DSG shifting. We may have been lost but not forgotten.

I seriously hope they fix this for you guys. But as I mentioned earlier, they will need to deviate from their normal tuning philosophy to get this right or create separate de-tuned versions for for 3"TBE and 3"DP/OEM catback. All of which will take much longer than you think.
My DSG shifts like stock http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The entire point of this thread is to collect data about who is having problems with what. That is not sweeping anything under the rug.


Hence the links to the other archived threads.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_You demanded we correct something for you immediately, didn't want to wait or give us the opportunity, so I refunded your money. You chose to play it this way, not us. You have your money back. 

Don't make me look like I demanded anything Keith. You and your company have proved complete and utter incompetence. 
To date, I have called you and Steve a number of times with only 1 returned call and that was to shut me up with a refund. This was after all the BS runaround your company gave me.
You asked me what I wanted, I explained with great detail what I was expecting. You agreed!
You missed every single commitment you made to me. On top of that you refused my calls and emails. Steve also refused my calls. Andy said "talk to you". Mike said "your on your own."
THIS WAS YOUR DECISION, not mine. You had every opportunity and way to contact me. I have seen you use that same line with people over and over here. And for the record, I have not been returned any money. Your dealer seems to have chosen to take his 30 days process the credit.


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Something about data is that you can choose which points to highlight to make pretty much any argument you want. You need to start looking at the big picture as opposed to focusing on random data. You need to search fuel cut and look at all the fuel cut complaints on this forum. 

I have, and that why I told everyone who is having FC issues to log and verify why. You seem to pick and choose what you want from here.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
We have been working with FSI longer than any other aftermarket company in the USA and possibly the world. We maintain all of the oem specifications for calibration procedures and component tolerances.
We have developed the first ecu recalibration, first turbo upgrade, first injector upgrade, first fuel pump upgrade, etc.

Yeah, this is why I went with APR, then I realized that comments like these are are pulled out when your in trouble. This only proves your arrogance, yet delivers nothing! Being first doesn't mean being right.


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
At this point all I am asking for is to have the opportunity to develop a new version of 06 Stage 2+ that incoroporates the power characteristics of v2.1 and the stability of v2.0. Our clients asked for v2.1 and we provided this as a service based on their requests. Now we are being slammed by you for responding to the requests of the community.

Clients asked for 2.1 because 2.0 was a downgrade to not hit FC from the larger DP. In no way was your 2.0 file on a performance level with the competition. You needed the 2.1 file to be competitive.
I'm not slamming you for responding to the community. Your getting slammed for your lack of response. 
Oh and by the way, unless the IC hoses are sitting on my porch when I get home, you've missed yet another commitment. At least your consistent.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I don't think you have a very good understanding of what this thread is about and what we are accomplishing.
The entire point of this thread is to collect data about who is having problems with what. That is not sweeping anything under the rug.
You demanded we correct something for you immediately, didn't want to wait or give us the opportunity, so I refunded your money. You chose to play it this way, not us. You have your money back. 
06 Stage 2+ v2.1 is being recalibrated. We are collecting data in this thread about 07 stage 2+ as well. 6 people with issues out of 1348 Stage 2+ installs on 07 transverse 2.0T fsi is not much, of course I am sure all 1348 aren't on this forum, and even the small number of 6 is important to us so when we release 06 Stage 2+ we will look at 07 and more than likely release a new version for it as well.
Also, all of these occurrances are at the same time as a widespread oem fueling issue. There are several TSB's in regards to fuel cuts at the VW/Audi Dealerships and other companies that make ecu tunes for our cars are experiencing fuel cut issues as well.
I guess maybe you came into this a little late or some such but 2.0T FSI owners whether stock or modified have been dealing with minor to major fuel cut issues since owning their cars.
Something about data is that you can choose which points to highlight to make pretty much any argument you want. You need to start looking at the big picture as opposed to focusing on random data. You need to search fuel cut and look at all the fuel cut complaints on this forum.
You'll see guys that had fuel cut since they bought their car. You'll see guys that get fuel cut with our competitors. You'll see guys that fuel cut on stage 1 but not stage 2.
When these cars were released it was quickly apparent and decided upon by everyone in the aftermarket that the only final solution is an upgraded fuel pump for those that wish to mod their cars.
Everyone has released revisions to their FSI ecu calibration. When I mean everyone, I mean VW, Audi, Bugatti, APR, MTM, Sportech, Oettinger, GIAC, etc.
FSI is a new technology that alot of smart people developed for specific goals. It meets those goals handily but unfortunately for the aftermarket its not the most friendly technology from a traditional perspective.
We have been working with FSI longer than any other aftermarket company in the USA and possibly the world. We maintain all of the oem specifications for calibration procedures and component tolerances.
We have developed the first ecu recalibration, first turbo upgrade, first injector upgrade, first fuel pump upgrade, etc.
At this point all I am asking for is to have the opportunity to develop a new version of 06 Stage 2+ that incoroporates the power characteristics of v2.1 and the stability of v2.0. Our clients asked for v2.1 and we provided this as a service based on their requests. Now we are being slammed by you for responding to the requests of the community.
Next, we will develop a new version for DSG owners. Next, we will develop a new version for 07 Stage 2+.
Once this is accomplished, everyone will have APR recalibrations that maintain oem calibration procedures, make the same or better power than our competitors and incorporates more innovation, R&D and features than any other. 


Good summation, Keith.


----------



## ExPunkStar (May 14, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Question about the eventual v2.1 revision. Will a manual revision be released first, or simultaneously with a DSG revision? I'll be patiently waiting for the DSG revision. Thanks!


----------



## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Once this is accomplished, everyone will have APR recalibrations that maintain oem calibration procedures, make the same or better power than our competitors and incorporates more innovation, R&D and features than any other. 

Pretty high goals. By then, everyone with your flash will have moved on to driving minivans.
Good luck with that arrogant plan. And you wonder why people demand so much from you.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_

Oh and by the way, unless the IC hoses are sitting on my porch when I get home, you've missed yet another commitment. At least your consistent.

and this is a shining example of why you feel you've been treated poorly. this is due to your perception and your misunderstanding of facts.

(9:06 AM 10-10-2007) Spongebobnopants: can you just tell me the status here then?
(9:30 AM 10-10-2007) [email protected]: Troy,

*Your hose will ship on Friday so you should have it on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.*

Regards,

(9:30 AM 10-10-2007) [email protected]: Keith
(9:40 AM 10-10-2007) Spongebobnopants: Did you guys get a new pass side hose, or is the recommendation to cut it beyond the already 3/8" cut?
(9:56 AM 10-10-2007) [email protected]: no, that is resolved as well. it was a manufacturing issue whereas they always come off the mandrel with extra length and they are supposed to be cut as the final manu process and that has since been long corrected.
(10:19 AM 10-10-2007) Spongebobnopants: So how much more should I cut from the already 3/8" cut piece? It is still apparently skinny in the middle.
(5:15 PM 10-10-2007) [email protected]: I'll just send you one out with the other side.
(7:43 PM 10-10-2007) Spongebobnopants: thanks


----------



## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (majid)*

Since this has devolved into petty bickering, personal attacks and generally nothing constructive I don't see why this should continue.
For the record Spongebobnopants disputes what Keith posted above.


_Modified by iThread at 1:36 PM 10-12-2007_


----------

