# 85 Cabby dies when giving it gas.



## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

I have an 85 Cabriolet 1.8L fuel injected. The car will start and idle but when I give it gas, it dies. I know my cold start valve is not working, but it does start. Do you have any idea what would cause it to die when I give it gas. I can raise the flapper in the fuel distributor and it will rev as long as I don't raise it too far. I have new lines, and fuel pump already installed. My injectors are working properly. Thanks in advance, Keith


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

*Re: 85 Cabby dies when giving it gas. (khartman2394)*

Vacuum leak. FR


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: 85 Cabby dies when giving it gas. (Fat Rabbit)*

Thanks for the info. I have sprayed starting fluid around the hoses and haven't found any place that makes a difference. I will continue to search for a leak. Do you think that maybe it could be my pressure regulator or is that a slim chance. Any other ideas out there?


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## mrdubville (Mar 3, 2009)

if its the same thing that was recently wrong with mine, the air/fuel mixture needs to be adjusted. mine wasnt as off as yours, but was bad enough that it wasnt getting enough gas to even go up a hill, and the more i pressed the gas, it would bog down and cut off. just adjusted the mixture with that screw next to the CIS, and thats all it took. it allowed that plate to move up more, allowed more gas to come in, and boom shakalaka, ran as if there was never anything wrong with it.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

Thanks. I will try that maybe today. I have gotten it to sometimes rev if
I go at it slowly, after the cooling fan has cycled on and off a couple of
times. Does anyone know what the the coil looking things are next to the
cold start valve? I have looked in books and on line and I can't fing
anywhere that names them. They bolt to the strut tower and have both
electrical and vacuum connetions. I am pretty new to this type of system so
am learning as I go. I appreciate everyones patience. Keith


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## mrdubville (Mar 3, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394)*

just incase it is the problem (and yeah im learning just like you are) here is the write up that someone showed me. 
http://merlyyn.com/tech/


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (mrdubville)*

I will check on that soon. In order to start the car, I have to raise the flapper in the fuel distributor bowl about 1/16 of an inch, so I guess that makes sense that my mixture is off. I think the item I mentioned in my last post may be call the Idle Air Regulator Valve or idle motor. Does anyone know if that has to be grounded or not? I may have some other obscure grounds that are not good. Anyone know of notorious "bad" grounds on the car? Thanks.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394)*

I have been doing a lot of searching on this problem I have and came across a blurb by the Bad Habit Rabbit about adjusting the idle/air mixture. I bought a dwell meter and hooked it up and the problem is that I have no reading at all from the test port of the Lambada system. At least I think that is the part and the test port I used looked like the one in his blurb. I put in my 3mm hex and tweaked back and forth on it the only change was in RPM but no real reading on my dwell meter. does this indicate that maybe my Lambada is hosed? If I ground it, it also affects the RPM. Occasionally I can get it to rev up but only if I play with the throttle cable and "coax" it to rev up. I did not put a new in tank pump on, anyone think that that could be the problem???? I have checked all the timing marks, and have sprayed 2 cans of carb cleaner on everything and all marks line up and no vacuum leaks found. I am open to all suggestions on this. Thanks. 


_Modified by khartman2394 at 4:59 PM 6-3-2009_


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Zero reading on your dwell often means your ECU is not working... can you hear your frequency valve buzz? its attached to your fuel distributor... its a very distinctive buzz...
Yes you hear the FV buzz... then either the test port is bad or you have the dwell hooked up wrong
No buzz... start checking for bad ground wires, bad O2 relay, fuses.... or junkyards for a new ECU


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*

I can hear the frequency valve buzz occasionally, is it supposed to buzz constantly? My O2 light is on in the dash does that mean that my O2 sensor is bad and is there any way to bypass it if it is a problem with the car revving up? Which relay is the O2 Relay? Does anyone have a diagram of the relay setup and what each one does? I have a good one for the fuses but not the relays. I think I have some gremlins in the electrical system on the car. I will try to check the FV and dwell setup again today. I will also check the spray pattern on the injectors to make sure they are spraying good. Thanks for the help.


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## Beetle.freak (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: (mrdubville)*

The coil lookin things on your strut tower is your idle boost valves - they maintain the idle speed within a 300rpm range when idle drops below 750rpm


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## Beetle.freak (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (khartman2394)*

The o2 sensor relay is working if the frequency valve is buzzin - it controls the freq valve and the o2 side of your Ecu. Mine just went and the car would barely run and wouldnt take any throttle without bucking


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## Beetle.freak (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (khartman2394)*

I have some wiring digrams and i'll try to take some pics of my fuse box and e-mail them to you.My relay was on top of my fuse box on the left and i think it had a #26 on it (metal bodied relay )


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*

The FV when everything is operating correctly should be running at 50% (half on, half off)... it will switch between the two so fast that when its running at 50% you shouldn't be able to tell that its turning off. if you hear it stop momentarily then its running at a lower frequency trying "lean" out the engine, again assuming its working right.
Some trouble shooting ideas:
You can force the ECU into perma-warmup (open loop) by disconnecting the leads to the temp switch on your front coolant outlet and jumper them together. Once you do that your FV should stay a nice constant 50% the entire time.... if its still "stops buzzing" you might have a ground/wiring issue, or a bad ECU or FV.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*

I have just come back in from working on the car. I got it to run, finally got it to rev up, tweaked the idle air mixture and now it revs pretty good. If I disconnect the O2 sensor it runs better. I had it running for about 15 mins, sounding good. Right now it won't start sounds like it wants to but won't. It has been doing this all along, if I let it cool down, it will start back up. Any ideas on this? Is it the warm up valve in need of cleaning? BTW I turned the idle/air mixture screw about 3 full turns richer. Another question, right now to start the car, I have 18 gauge wire under the flapper, is there a way to get the flapper up some without the wire? Thanks, Keith


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## mrdubville (Mar 3, 2009)

if you pull the flapper up you will be able to see a metal pin that holds it. while holding up the flapper, take a flathead and bend that clip up just a hair, which in the future allows the plate to sit a little higher. once you bend it a hair or two, take a piece of paper cut into a strip, slide it down in between the closed flapper and the other part, make sure that it just barely touches both sides. pull the paper strip along the inside of the lip to make sure all sides are even and you should be good. i just had to do this to mine so i know it works.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (mrdubville)*

I raised the flapper and my clip for some reason was cocked over, all I did was straighten it up and it raised the flapper enough that I took the 18 gauge wire out and the car will start. I am styill haveing problems getting it to rev good and once it is warm/hot, she will not start till it cools down. Any ideas? I did find a hose behind/under the intake manifold that is not hooked to anything on one end, comes from behind/below the cold start valve leads to the other side. Haven't tried to plug it yet but will tomorrow I hope.


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## Beetle.freak (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394)*

The hose under your intake sounds like the one that supposed to go to your aux air regulator which allows air to bypass the throttle body when the engine is cold, thats a big vacuum leak! That sounds like alot of your problem.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394) (Beetle.freak)*

Does anyone know where the other end of the hose goes? I am pretty sure the part it is connected to is the aux air regulator. There is vacuum on it. Does it go over to the airbox, valve cover, or where? Thanks, keith


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*

it should be connected to the bottom of your intake boot/hose/etc. It needs to be metered (through your CIS air flow meter) flow. ANY vacuum leak is a problem


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*

I don't see any place to connect it. On the boot/hose/etc is a T junction and all are full as well as being the wrong size, smaller, there are places on the valve cover and air box that is the right size but those are connected together. Does anyone have or know of a vacuum line diagram? Thanks, Keith


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*

it should connect underneath the throttle body boot


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## Beetle.freak (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394) (khartman2394)*

It should come out of your intake under your coldstart valve to your aux air reg then comes out of that(rubber hose) and goes to a metal tube underneath of your throttle body boot - unless somebody put an older boot on your car, the port should be there?


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## Beetle.freak (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394) (Beetle.freak)*

If yot have a cell phone that gets pics n vids e-mail me the #. Im doin this through my cell n cant send pics or IM. I got pics and wiring diags that may help you. My e-mail should be on my profile.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394) (Beetle.freak)*

I don't have a tube in the throttle body boot so maybe someone has put an older one on. I will try to get some pics on here so maybe you guys can tell me what is up with the system. Beetle.freak, I couldn't find you email so here is mine. [email protected] Thanks.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (khartman2394)*

A) Vacuum diagrams: http://www.cabby-info.com/engine.htm#Engine_vacuum .
B) Checking and adjusting the air-fuel mixture and idle, along with testing the OXS system: http://www.cabby-info.com/cis . Note: just because the DVOM doesn't get a reading at the test port does not necessarily mean that the ECU is bad... the test port itself is a crappy design and can fail after an initial use.
C) Fuse/relay panel diagrams: http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical_system.htm .


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (kamzcab86)*

Thanks for the info, I will check out the websites. I have found another problem with the car. I pulled the injectors to double check the pattern and found that two of them no longer have the ends on them. So I have to see if I can fish them out of the motor without pulling the head. Seems like one thing after another. If anyone knows where the tips could be or a good way of getting them out please let me know. Also, anyone know of where to get new injectors without paying an arm and a leg would be appreciated as well. Thanks. Keith


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## jemery.wa (Jun 6, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (khartman2394)*

you can find them on ebay, moogie2498 has them for $33 a piece or there is another seller (ski557) that will sell sets of used ones, i bought 4 for $45.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (jemery.wa)*

OK, thanks for the info. I will try to see if I can find them.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (khartman2394)*

I did find some injectors on ebay and they are on the way. Thanks for the heads up on them. Now I have to figure out how to get the tips out of the engine. Anyone have an idea of how other than taking the head off? Thanks.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (khartman2394)*

I had to take the head off to get the tips out so I did a valve job on it, and put in the new injectors. I am still having problems with reving the engine. I can get it to rev by turning the air/fuel mixture richer, but when I try to start it agin it will not start untill I lean it out again.







Even when I get it to rev, it starts to sputter at about 2500 RPM. I am pretty stumped about what to do next. I haven't changed the in-tank fuel pump ot the accumulator. Any one think that may be the problem or have any other ideas?


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## mrdubville (Mar 3, 2009)

thats a possiblity. before i learned of tweaking the mixture, i had already replaced both pumps, the filter, the lines, and the relay, but then got the mixture changed and it worked. there is a high chance both of them were causing the problems, but that was in my case. hopefully thats all it takes for you to get fixed.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (mrdubville)*

This thing is starting to drive me nuts. I have seen how to check the accumulator on here so I will try to check that and also take the in-tank pump off and check the condition of it. I appreciate your help.


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394)*

OK, so now I have got the car to rev but only after it is good and warm. I have a good cold start valve, good injectors and have double checked all timing marks. It will not rev untill is has run 3-4 mins and warmed up. I am going to check the spark from the plugs. I have checked the wires and they seem good, I am getting good juice to the plugs. Any ideas out there on what I need to do to get it to rev sooner?







Thanks


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## buster_mk3gti (Jan 20, 2009)

*Re: (khartman2394)*

very curious how this has turned out, find the problem? im having what sounds like exactly the same problem... im just ordered a new fuel pump relay hoping that will do the trick mines a cis basic though...


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (buster_mk3gti)*

Haven't gotten the problem totally fixed yet. It does seem to be getting better each time I work on it. I have done all the suggestions mentioned in this thread and each one has seemed to help, I think probably the one that helped most is the idle/air mixture on the fuel distributor.I had to replace the distributor and I am sure that has been a big problem being as I have tweaked it several times over the last month. It still is very hesitant to rev when first started up but once it runs for 2-4 mins it revs fine. I am going to get new plugs and wires for it soon and see if that helps. The car sat for who knows how long before I got it. I think I am also going to try some seafoam in the tank and see if that helps any. Good luck on yours and if I get a difinitive answer on a fix for mine, I will post it.


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## ODIE1234 (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (khartman2394)*

I have a 87 Cabby with CIS issues also.Mine have all stemmed from a rotten fuel tank{rusty on the inside}.Next week i am disassembing the fuel distributor and cleaning and replacing all the o-rings.cost approx 10 bucks.keeping my fingers crossed


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (ODIE1234)*

Still trying to get the bugs worked out on the Cabby. I have it so it will run good and runs strong. My problem now is that it is extremely hard to start in the mornings. Sometimes it takes 6 or 7 tries to get it to run. It will start, run for a few seconds, then die. I have taken out the cold start valve and hooked 12V to it and it sprays correctly. But I am not sure that it is working properly while in the manifold. What kind of voltage should I get on the connector? Is there going to be a different voltage when cold and when warm? Is there a relay or anything like that I should check? I appreciate all your help so far as it has gotten basket case back to life. If anyone has any ideas at all about this let me know. Thanks.


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## dirtywabbit84 (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (khartman2394)*

Pm sent!!
I've been having the same dam issue with my coupe.
The minute I hit the gas it dies, only the car wants to start but wont idle.
The only way i can get it to run is by spraying carb cleaner in the throttle bottle.
So I am assuming its starving for fuel somehow.
But both pumps are new and fuel dizzy has plenty of pressure


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## khartman2394 (May 20, 2009)

*Re: (dirtywabbit84)*

Sent you a pm
Getting better. This morning at 51 degrees outside started right up, however yesterday at 41 degrees, took 4 attempts.







Does anyone know how to check/clean the ISV? Also what are the voltages to the ISV as well as the cold start valve? Also would the auz air valve not working have anything to do with the starting issue? My son doesn't mind the starting issue but it bugs the hell out of me. BTW, when warm it starts right up and runs like a raped ape. Thanks


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## Beetle.freak (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Southcross)*

Hey Ed can you e-mail me at ( [email protected] ). I have a question about a 93 fox tranny that wont come out of 3rd gear and dont anyone else to ask. Im just trying to avoid changing trans if i dont need to.


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