# 2.0T Need help.



## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I have a 2.0 ABA and i just orderd a c2 30# chip. I installed it this afternoon and went for a drive.
When I drive "Low and Slow" it run's ok but kinds feel's a bit held back. But when I hit it in second gear/or any it will not let me pass 4000rpm while it leans out.

What chould this mean? I'm super confused!!:banghead:

Bad chip?
Wrong injectors? ( which i wouldnt think so )
Something in the fuel system?
Beacuse i dont have a recirculatin dv?


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## 02awp18705 (Jan 19, 2009)

did you do a boost leak test ?


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

No I have not. But when I was running my tt chip it would hit full boost at 4000rpm and it would keep pulling. (57 trim turbo)

It feels as if I have a bad o2 but I just put a new one in.


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## 02awp18705 (Jan 19, 2009)

hmmm...does it idle fine ? does it want to stall when your coming to a stop ?


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

My idel is at 900rpm, And when coming to a stop it dips. TB postion senser?


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## 02awp18705 (Jan 19, 2009)

i had a boost leak on my 8v and it would want to stall or the idle would dip down alot when coming to a stop then raise back up . i would check your intake pipe/charge pipes . how is your mass air flow sensor i had a bad maf and it didnt like boost at all .


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I will check but all this started once I pluged the new chip in. I'm thinking it would be a chip.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Bump need help!!


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## colovw (Aug 27, 2007)

You are running 30# injectors right? Just making sure.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes I am^^

Call Chris Collier, And he told me it could be my fuel pressure, or my MAF. 

How would I check for the fuel pressure?


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Help!!^^^:banghead:


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## colovw (Aug 27, 2007)

papo98jetta said:


> Yes I am^^
> 
> Call Chris Collier, And he told me it could be my fuel pressure, or my MAF.
> 
> How would I check for the fuel pressure?


You need to get a gauge onto the fuel rail.

You might want to try the old chip if you still have it. If you put it in and everything is good, you know its the chip. If it still runs weird, eliminate the chip as the problem.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

colovw said:


> You need to get a gauge onto the fuel rail.
> 
> You might want to try the old chip if you still have it. If you put it in and everything is good, you know its the chip. If it still runs weird, eliminate the chip as the problem.


Had a buddy help me out and told be to upgarde the fuel pump. So yeah I will be putting my old chip on.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

So now I put a Walbro 255 in-tank fuel pump.

But now when I try and drive it, It has a bit of a miss fire when I'm driving on vac. and boost. But when I put the pedel to the metal realy close to lean ( narrow band [ will upgrade soon] ) and has a very slow pick up. Also, When I hook a OBD2 code reader these codes come up - Low input MAF, Coolent Sensor, Speed Sensor, And another that right now I can't remember. I've been searching for over a week and I can't find anything.:banghead:

Suck's that I can't drive my own car!


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## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

Why did you install the external fuel pump without confirming that you had a fuel pressure issue? Did you ever do a fuel pressure test? I would remove the pump until you can determine the real issue / do a FP test. 

If you had a boost leak, you would be running rich, not lean as the air the engine was expecting to be there is leaking to the atmosphere. Did you have any codes before you installed the walboro? Do you have a BOV or are you recirculating? What plugs are you running with what gap? OBD 1 or 2?


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Read the other post so you can get updated. It's an internal walbro. OBD2. And I have a friend that told me its the FPR and MAF...Mabye some timing to.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

:banghead:bump


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Would the MAFs F up my timing in anyway?


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

yes.But it sounds like you need to get the car running better first


What plugs do you have

Get another maf,etc and a wideband


Dont throw money at it


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm looking for a good MAFs just not a new one, The cost is way to high for me right now. 

-New MAFs ( $299.99 )

-FPR from ecs tuning. ( $176 )

-AEM Wideband ( $180 ) 

But my friend ( owns a 2.0T Gti ) keeps pushing the fact that the prob. is the fuel pressure. But I think its the MAFs. Even tho I already tried a used one which my car would not idle with. So I'm really confused. I mss driving my car!!


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Talking about this thing... I know needs work.


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## rommeldawg (May 25, 2009)

did you ever just switch back to the tt chip you had been running to see if the car ran normal. i am assuming you didnt put a new chip in the car thinking it would solve a performance issue you were having.


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

battery voltage?
whats the vacuum at idle?


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

make sure you recirculate the DV, that would mess up the MAF reading.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

rommeldawg said:


> did you ever just switch back to the tt chip you had been running to see if the car ran normal. i am assuming you didnt put a new chip in the car thinking it would solve a performance issue you were having.


This is what I was useing in the first place. Put it the c2 chip and it all went to hell, even when i put back the tt chip. 

Car starts fine so I dont think its voltage. 

Vac at idle is 20 but little by little gose to 15. 

(The story) - I wake up in the morning start it and wait a bit. And when I start to drive it in first it kinda feels held back until around 3000+rpm. And when crusing in 5th Around 2800 to 3000rpm it start to jump like if it had a bad miss fire. When I hit full throttle it picks up ok full boost at around 3000rpm. then slows down and won't pass 4000rpm. 

I'm lost!


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

rjones1214 said:


> make sure you recirculate the DV, that would mess up the MAF reading.


And I dont have this.


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

What plugs are you running?
Are you running colder plugs? Proper gaps?

The C2 software is MAF based and that will mess things up but only when you let off the gas it will go rich.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Stock plugs, And when it miss fires it also gose lean. But rich when I let off as stated here^


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

dude low alternator output will ruin the cars driveablitiy and make random codes show


Also run a recirculated valve dude


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

Idk why it goes lean but I would swap out the plugs for colder plugs with a small gap. 
NGK bkr7e 4644 
some places might stock these, got them for $10 for a box of four from CarQuest


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I've seen a few people that dont run a DV and it run's fine.


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

The DV should only cause the rich issue but make sure it's closed at idle. I would set everything up properly to straighten everything out.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

rjones1214 said:


> Idk why it goes lean but I would swap out the plugs for colder plugs with a small gap.
> NGK bkr7e 4644
> some places might stock these, got them for $10 for a box of four from CarQuest


Thanks Gonna try this in the morning..

And little by little will it all come together.


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

No problem, hopefully you can get this thing up and running. 
I would also suggest cleaning the MAF sensor and throttle body.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I've cleaned the MAF with brake cleaner. Didnt realy do anything I'll clean the tb when I get the new spark plugs.


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

Alright, I have heard of people having issues with the throttle body being dirty. 
I had to wait a day for the plugs to be shipped in from the carquest warehouse.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I'll call around and see if anyone has them if they don't I'll order them.


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

A shop should be able to get them for you the next day so have them do that if they can before you order them.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

That's a good idea. Thanks for all the help. Updates will come asap..


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## VDUBIN (Jun 28, 2001)

DUDE... You cleaned your MAF with brake parts cleaner?!!! it is definately toast now. BP cleaner is so aggressive that it melts the tiny parts in the MAF. Only use electronics cleaner. The surging you were describing when cruising is called lean surge. not enough fuel, so either your chip is bad, your injectors are too small, your fuel pump is weak, or your maf has low voltage as its bad. maybe a combination of issues, but start testing first.

did you get the larger MAF housing for the C2 software? 
have you tested the fuel pressure yet?
have you tried to borrow a buddies maf?
have you pulled the part number off the injectors to verify flow numbers?


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## 2pt. slo (Jan 4, 2004)

papo98jetta said:


> I've cleaned the MAF with brake cleaner. .


:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Might aswell throw that maf sensor away. DO NOT clean a maf sensor EVER with brake clean. This is an very fragile sensor that is supposed to be only cleaned with MAF sensor safe cleaner. Also when you clean your TB make sure to get it realigned via vagcom as this will cause the car not to rev past a certain point. Also you must use the proper plugs and gap or the car will misfire quite a lot. As said above get some NGK BKR7E's and gap them to .23 then go from there.


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## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

papo98jetta said:


> I've cleaned the MAF with brake cleaner.


I hope this is a joke or a typo. Say good bye to your MAF. :banghead:

Anyways. There are TONS of good suggestions with the issues you have been having with your car. Unfortunately it seems like you are just tossing $$$ at the problem and not taking the time to understand what potentially could be going on. 

You need to recirculate your BOV, and you can't run stock plugs. Get rid of all of your CEL codes, THEN you can start to diagnose your lean condition. Not before or you just end up wasting time and money and in your case a perfectly good MAF.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

And I just looked up the injectoers I got off a ford, Turns out I have a set of red tops #19 injectoers not 30#. I have a walbro 255 pump, C2 stage 1 so i dont need to upgrade the MAFs housing. So I'm going to call my buddy up which has a set laying around. ( Hope its the cure )

Well I was searching and a few people said that they used break cleaner. But now I know, lucky me that it still works the same way as befor i cleaned it.


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## MattySull (May 17, 2006)

papo98jetta said:


> ( Hope its the cure )


please stop hoping. Test it until you know. or your cash and your hope will run out.

Get the proper injectors, recirculate your DV (C2 chip NEEDS it).


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

That would cause a big problem having the wrong size injectors. Swap those and recirc the DV so that should take care of the lean and rich issues you are having. The hesitation you were having was probably cause by the injectors not putting out enough fuel.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm gonna get it done. Thanks guys :thumbup:


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

How did you get the wrong size injectors?


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Pulled them from a ford and assumed they were #30 because they had red tops. I was wrong, And i fixed my mistake and know it feel's a lot better. Now it run's rich even on full boost. Gonna get a FPR soon. also a new MAFs. Thanks for all the help guys!  :thumbup:


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

something wrong with your stock FPR? I have a spare 3 bar stock fpr if you need one 
Swapping the MAF will probably help.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

If it goes rich you have a boost leak. If it goes lean you have a vac leak between the turbo and the maf usually caused be an open BOV.


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

the amount of money you've spent with C2 you could have a megasquirt setup that is 10x better.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

Flipdriver80 said:


> the amount of money you've spent with C2 you could have a megasquirt setup that is 10x better.


 I looked into the megasquirt set up, And its to much work. As for C2 it's Plug "n" Play. 

My FPR is fine, I'm just going to get an adj. one for tuning. Thanks for the offer!  

Whats the best way to perform a boost leak test? 

To do list: 

MAFs 
Spark plugs 
FPR 
Wideband 

The mabye list: 

Head spacer 
arp head studs 
more boost


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

I sent you a PM about a few things. Looks like you have a good list. Hopefully everything clears up with the right injectors and a working MAF.


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

papo98jetta said:


> I looked into the megasquirt set up, And its to much work. As for C2 it's Plug "n" Play.


 this thread is evidence of C2's plug and play flawlessness


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

Well for it to be plug n play you have to have working sensors (MAF), correct injector size (30#s instead of the 19#s he had) and have the dv recirculated. 
With the amount of people who use the software I still feel it's the most plug n play you can get. Megasquirt involves a lot of work including building the ECU if you want to save the most money.


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

I megasquirt setup can be had for around $450 from start to finish and thats with buying the ECU completely assembled, no need to build any computer components. wire it up and you are set. 

it doesn't use a MAF so when you lose boost you dont see a diminish in motor performance. I blew an intercooler pipe and drove my car a couple miles just naturally aspirated until i could pull over and fix it. you could run an open throttle body if you wanted :laugh:. it doesn't use airflow as a main component in tuning. it uses either air manifold absolute pressure (boost) or throttle position (naturally aspirated). 

its better hands down. i never have to call to order a new chip, i never have to post on vortex as to why my plug and play turbo software (which requires a very specific set of parameters) isn't so plug and play.


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## MattySull (May 17, 2006)

Flipdriver80 said:


> its better hands down. i never have to call to order a new chip, i never have to post on vortex as to why my plug and play turbo software (which requires a very specific set of parameters) isn't so plug and play.


 It also seems that megasquirt has given you the ability to jump into threads without reading them. 



Flipdriver80 said:


> this thread is evidence of C2's plug and play flawlessness


 Nothing to do with C2 flaws. Everything to do with inccorect injectors and DV recirculation. The C2 #30 chip doesnt ask for much but it needs what it asks so if you **** it up you will get problems. 



I apologize if that comes off rude but it is what it is. I would hate to make enemies with another ABAT owner.:beer:


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

MattySull said:


> It also seems that megasquirt has given you the ability to jump into threads without reading them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I did read the thread and its still easier to use MS. i'm not trying to be rude either i'm just stating my opinion.


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## rjones1214 (Apr 24, 2009)

Wiring in a full engine harness is not considered easy by most people.


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

well maybe if people wanted to learn how to work on cars to better themselves as a tuner they would give it a shot instead of taking the easy way out and then bitching when it doesn't work properly. if you take on the task of building and driving a turbocharged car you should have the wherewithal to hook up a few wires.


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

dont most MS system have the ability to run on the stock vw sensor?


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

rjones1214 said:


> Wiring in a full engine harness is not considered easy by most people.


 Which brings us to the lugtronic plug and play. This is the best of both worlds. It lets you use all the stock stuff with no restrictions as far as capability.


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## papo98jetta (Dec 10, 2008)

I wanted MS and i really looked into it, Searching how some people set it up. But I didn't go that way because I DD this car. I've been with out driving the car for weeks and now that I have it running due to motor and driver issues. I love it.  

But the next thing is to order the parts and tune it. Right now with the stock FPR it's super rich. But safer then lean!  

I have no prob. with anyone, I'm just trying to learn more about my car.


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

papo98jetta said:


> I wanted MS and i really looked into it, Searching how some people set it up. But I didn't go that way because I DD this car. I've been with out driving the car for weeks and now that I have it running due to motor and driver issues. I love it.
> 
> But the next thing is to order the parts and tune it. Right now with the stock FPR it's super rich. But safer then lean!
> 
> I have no prob. with anyone, I'm just trying to learn more about my car.


 dude i've had MS in my car for 3 years and have never had a problem with it. EVER.


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

how long did it take you to figure the tuning out.


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