# VRT stripped third. Now what?



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I figured I would ask my questions in here since FI guys seem to be the ones that break gears.
So I broke third when I was giving my buddy a ride in my car. Hit a slight bump when the boost was coming on and now my trans sounds like rocks in a dryer. I drove the car back to my place, about 1 mile or so. I have never had this issue before so my question is this trans worth fixing? Should I just replace third or just swap my LSD into another trans. What are your guys experiences with using a trans that ate a gear? Does it wipe out all the bearings? TIA:beer:


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

i have done this twice n both was from a small dip on the road(not a bump or pothole) while on boost on the highway lol... so i bought another trans to replace it each time...

i bet the inside of your trans look like this 
















buy another stock trans and swap the diff in...

goodluck:beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Good think I got another trans, lol. The spare has a slight fourth gear grind but maybe I can fix it when its apart. So you think the trans is efed, not worth fixing?

You sheared the teeth right off, lol.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

its good for spare parts :laugh:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Thanks, guess I know what I am doing tomorrow. Clean a greasy nasty trans and taking it apart, not fun.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Yep, that's what it looks like...:banghead:


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

Another sacrifice for the vrt gods...


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

you wont know until you tear it apart. it may all be fine, or there may be additional damage on the other gears from the contamination.

bridge expansion joints and small bumps are tranny killers though. dont boost on them.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Yeah, funny you say that because I am usually very careful about that. Guess I didn't see that bump this time. This trans got its use though, it has like 80 passes on slicks with enough power to do some damage. 

Learn from me fellow VRT owners, DO NOT boost over bumps in the road! Gears will be killed.
I check it out after I swap the trans to the backup, thanks:thumbup:


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

Turn down the boost mid gear and make less torque :laugh:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

All I need is a Hallman Pro with the cable, lol.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

adjust boost mid gear


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I need the rare and expensive Instability boost controller system.


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## 2ToneTurbo (Feb 15, 2007)

Just did the same things in my aba16vt.. beating on her in 3rd and was peddaling it hit a lil dip in the road and it bent bye bye..


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I know i have beat this trans, just surprised this little bump did it in. I have two spare transmissions, but both need a new 3/4 slider. one grinds third and the other grinds fourth. Anyone have a good 3/4 slider they want to sell? PM if you got one.


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I need the rare and expensive Instability boost controller system.


A good boost controller goes a long way when you don't have an ECU that can control boost. AVC-R II works pretty well and can be had for cheap.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

> A good boost controller goes a long way when you don't have an ECU that can control boost. AVC-R II works pretty well and can be had for cheap.



Well like most these days money is tight and I do what I can when I can. Don't know if I will be staying with the chip tuning thing for much longer. Its just does not give me the options that I am now needing. Direction with the car may also be changing as I am about to move to Florida and am unsure of the track availability down there. I want to continue drag racing my car, even if it means driving further. I got what you were saying before though, full torque in mid rpm is not all its cracked up to be on the street or the track. To tell you the truth, I don't know much about boost by gear. Since my last track outing I have realized I need the ability to control torque application to get to my personal goals and save the powertrain.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I am about to move to Florida and am unsure of the track availability down there.


Where you moving to?

You've got a couple options for track dependent on where you will be setting up. :thumbup:


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## BLSport (Dec 24, 2005)

To the OP: Purely out of curiosity, not that it necessarily means anything one way or the other, were you using a clutch disc with a sprung hub, or a solid hub?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

BLSport said:


> To the OP: Purely out of curiosity, not that it necessarily means anything one way or the other, were you using a clutch disc with a sprung hub, or a solid hub?


Clutchnet six pad disk with a sprung hub.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Where you moving to?
> 
> You've got a couple options for track dependent on where you will be setting up. :thumbup:


Panama City area. I know there is one Ga about 2 hrs away.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Ok you are quite a bit up north. Was hoping you were more towards Cen Fl area. :thumbup:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Ok you are quite a bit up north. Was hoping you were more towards Cen Fl area. :thumbup:


Closer than I am now, lol. I am sure I will take a trip to that area at some point.:thumbup:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Yep, lemme know.

The JaxDubs guys are somewhat "closer" to your area.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Looking foward to the move, now I just got to keep my car in one piece, lol.


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## BLSport (Dec 24, 2005)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Clutchnet six pad disk with a sprung hub.


Thanks for the info! :beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Its a very good streetable clutch with pretty good holding capacity. The reason I went with it was because most sprung hub disks use the spring tension to keep the spring in its place, no added material as a keeper of sorts. The clutchnet disks cover the springs so they won't pop out under high torque loads or chatter. Best disk design in the business IMO.


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Well like most these days money is tight and I do what I can when I can. Don't know if I will be staying with the chip tuning thing for much longer. Its just does not give me the options that I am now needing. Direction with the car may also be changing as I am about to move to Florida and am unsure of the track availability down there. I want to continue drag racing my car, even if it means driving further. I got what you were saying before though, full torque in mid rpm is not all its cracked up to be on the street or the track. To tell you the truth, I don't know much about boost by gear. Since my last track outing I have realized I need the ability to control torque application to get to my personal goals and save the powertrain.


:beer::beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

sp_golf said:


> :beer::beer:


Pulling the rock box now, just got off work. Will post the carnage after I get the halves apart.
Everyone likes carnage, lol. Guess it's back to one wheel wondering for a bit.:banghead:


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> All I need is a Hallman Pro with the cable, lol.


...ever thought about using a two stage mbc?...


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I was being sarcastic, I know I need some sort of boost control.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Well, it doesn't look as bad as I thought.
Magnet did it's job really well, I did not find any gear matter anywhere else other than the few pieces that i pulled out last night.









Third is done for









Pile of teeth, ouch!









Oddly enough I figured out why second was starting to lock me out at the track.
Slider hub is jacked for second gear.









That's all for now, going to put the spare back in. Later


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

New trans is back in, ops chk C/W. I am going to bed.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

That was pretty quick, props to you Sir. Lol.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

PjS860ct said:


> its good for spare parts :laugh:


gear lube stinks soo bad


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I was being sarcastic, I know I need some sort of boost control.


...didnt mean to sound like an ass...sorry... i was really trying to ask if you had actually thought about using a simple two stage mbc... set low boost and set high boost and your done...plus you can switch on the fly...in cabin...

...i personally run this thing and love it...










http://www.boostvalve.com/volkswagen_2.html


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

GinsterMan98 said:


> New trans is back in, ops chk C/W. I am going to bed.


I some how quoted myself, oops!


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Boost112 said:


> ...didnt mean to sound like an ass...sorry... i was really trying to ask if you had actually thought about using a simple two stage mbc... set low boost and set high boost and your done...plus you can switch on the fly...in cabin...
> 
> ...i personally run this thing and love it...
> 
> ...


No worries bro, I did not mean to come off that way either, I am really interested in going SEM so I can have all the options I need like boost by gear.


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

Im having my spare box rebuilt (finally getting an lsd, always wanted one) and picked up a pinion girdle from usrt, supposed to help prevent the case from flexing and gearstack misalignment leading to this type of carnage. We'll see if it works or not. Im only seeing maybe 325 hp to the wheels but smaller hotside gives that torque punch. My current stock box vibrates really bad under load in 4th and 5th. I know its in the box bc its unrelated to vehicle speed and vibrations are at different frequencies at the same rpm in fourth or fifth. The one usrt sells claims no case machining necessary vs the one aptuning sells.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

'dubber said:


> Im having my spare box rebuilt (finally getting an lsd, always wanted one) and picked up a pinion girdle from usrt, supposed to help prevent the case from flexing and gearstack misalignment leading to this type of carnage. We'll see if it works or not. Im only seeing maybe 325 hp to the wheels but smaller hotside gives that torque punch. My current stock box vibrates really bad under load in 4th and 5th. I know its in the box bc its unrelated to vehicle speed and vibrations are at different frequencies at the same rpm in fourth or fifth. The one usrt sells claims no case machining necessary vs the one aptuning sells.


The pinion brace is to prevent pinion bearing race failure, not shaft spread. If you want to prevent shaft spread, you need this. http://www.aptuning.com/index.php?o...ning-02a02j-5th-gear-cuff&catid=1:latest-news
The taper bearing at the top of the input shaft is the one that will flex the case allowing the shaft to move.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

The 5th gear cuff eliminates 5gear correct?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Yep, I think its a really cool idea.


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

No fifth is a bit too hardcore for me as this is basically a daily driver. 

Even with all of that we still have helical cut gears and I'll bet you just ripped the teeth apart because they are weak in their own right. Dog box would fix that but I'm not spending the money. :beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I guess I will just keep throwing in stock boxes with a quaife and hope for the best. I can get them cheap enough. It's taken 3 yrs to break one.


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

Yeah that's my plan too. Once I get the one being rebuilt back, I'll take apart the vibrating wonder and see what's going on in there, although it's probably one of those situations that nothing will be obviously wrong with it and I'll just send it out for a rebuild or core it for a refurbed stock spare. I kind of doubt my own abilities in the trans rebuilding department.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Vibration is usually a bearing has gone south due to oil starvation or damage from from F.O. Since its speed related I would say it might be a diff bearing. From what I have seen in the four 02A's I have been inside the bearings with the most wear are the two taper bearings on the input shaft and the two diff carrier bearings. One had damage to the lower pinion shaft bearing. Three had gear grind issues and the magnets all had fine metal fragments on the from the slider hubs. The trans I just pulled out last night dropped a catch from fifth gear for some reason, though it worked flawlessly. Catch was sitting in the black end cover of the trans, so I know it didn't cause what happened to third gear. the upper larger taper bearing on the input shaft had a bunch of wear and had brownish heat marks in the race so I am quessing this bearing was failing leading to what happened to third. I am going to try and source the bearings for a trans and take the best condition parts from my one spare and my now parts trans and rebuild one. That will leave me with the good trans I have now and one fresh trans with a Quaife. I know the upper taper bearing of the input shaft is a rear wheel bearing on MK2 cars with drum brakes. The hardest ones to get are the reverse gear roller bearings and the smaller input shaft bearing. Diff bearings are Suzuki Samari 4WD front wheel bearings.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> That was pretty quick, props to you Sir. Lol.


I get faster each time. Went pretty easy except for my finger getting smashed.


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

The vibes im getting aren't speed dependant or rpm dependant meaning i'll get different frequencies at the same speed or rpm in different gears. Most noticible in 4th and 5 th though. If i'm in 4th at 3k rpm going a certian speed, it will vibrate lets say 20 times a second. Then I go to 5 th and I'm still going more or less the same speed, the vibes will occur mabye 5 times a second. Then if i speed up to 3k rpms the vibes will occur mabye 10 times a second. I was thinking not the diff since thats final drive speeds. Its gotta be something before the final drive speed but after the input shaft speed. I wish I knew more about how the trans goes together. Maybe time to buy a Corrado Bentley. 

Anyway, do you just drop your effer out from underneath by yourself? Ive never done it, Ive always pulled the engine with trans out together bc I've always had other things to do at the same time and that made the most sense, I'm worried I'm gonna get jammed up not being able to bench press it into place. I have an engine hoist with tilt bar and a scissor type trans jack with a cradle on it.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

'dubber said:


> The vibes im getting aren't speed dependant or rpm dependant meaning i'll get different frequencies at the same speed or rpm in different gears. Most noticible in 4th and 5 th though. If i'm in 4th at 3k rpm going a certian speed, it will vibrate lets say 20 times a second. Then I go to 5 th and I'm still going more or less the same speed, the vibes will occur mabye 5 times a second. Then if i speed up to 3k rpms the vibes will occur mabye 10 times a second. I was thinking not the diff since thats final drive speeds. Its gotta be something before the final drive speed but after the input shaft speed. I wish I knew more about how the trans goes together. Maybe time to buy a Corrado Bentley.
> 
> Anyway, do you just drop your effer out from underneath by yourself? Ive never done it, Ive always pulled the engine with trans out together bc I've always had other things to do at the same time and that made the most sense, I'm worried I'm gonna get jammed up not being able to bench press it into place. I have an engine hoist with tilt bar and a scissor type trans jack with a cradle on it.


This site has some good diagrams of the trans in an exploded view. There are some good threads on here showing trans take down and build up. 
I learned a great deal from this thread, best one out there IMHO. is a read, but its all there.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Bearing-Replacement-You-can-help!!-(I-need-it!!)


Sounds like your input shaft bearings are toast then, sorry I misinterpreted what you said.

I jack up the car and remove the axle nuts and wheels. Then I remove the bolts holding the ball joints in the A arms. After that, I pull both axles and remove the starter, shift tower, slave cylinder and the shift cable bracket/speed sensor. Then I get a block off wood and support the oil pan slightly. I then remove the trans mount and bracket from the trans to make more room. I support the trans with a engine hoist and remove all the lower mount bolts and the bolts that connect the trans to the fwd motor mount. Last things I doo are drain the oil from the trans and remove the axle cups from the trans. Then all you have to do is take the top two trans bolts out and pull the trans to the driverside. I then slightly tilt the motor down with the floor jack and remove the trans out the bottom. That's how I do it and I can do it pretty fast this way.


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

No problem man, the vibration was hard to pinpoint in real life let alone describing it online. Thanks for the info, I'm going to read that thread right now. :beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Its actually almost as fast to just remove them together, but I hate messing with the exhaust and all the coolant bs.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Vibration is usually a bearing has gone south due to oil starvation or damage from from F.O. Since its speed related I would say it might be a diff bearing. From what I have seen in the four 02A's I have been inside the bearings with the most wear are the two taper bearings on the input shaft and the two diff carrier bearings. One had damage to the lower pinion shaft bearing. Three had gear grind issues and the magnets all had fine metal fragments on the from the slider hubs. The trans I just pulled out last night dropped a catch from fifth gear for some reason, though it worked flawlessly. Catch was sitting in the black end cover of the trans, so I know it didn't cause what happened to third gear. the upper larger taper bearing on the input shaft had a bunch of wear and had brownish heat marks in the race so I am quessing this bearing was failing leading to what happened to third. I am going to try and source the bearings for a trans and take the best condition parts from my one spare and my now parts trans and rebuild one. That will leave me with the good trans I have now and one fresh trans with a Quaife. I know the upper taper bearing of the input shaft is a rear wheel bearing on MK2 cars with drum brakes. The hardest ones to get are the reverse gear roller bearings and the smaller input shaft bearing. Diff bearings are Suzuki Samari 4WD front wheel bearings.


what year samuari are the wheel bearings from?
thanks
:thumbup:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

.therealvrt said:


> what year samuari are the wheel bearings from?
> thanks
> :thumbup:


All engines 85-95.
Timken Part number for the bearing- LM300849 
Timken part number for the race- LM300811


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

GinsterMan98 said:


> All engines 85-95.
> Timken Part number for the bearing- LM300849
> Timken part number for the race- LM300811


:thumbup:


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## IHookItUuup (Aug 6, 2008)

Just curious, when you hit the swell or depression in the road did the tires spin and then suddenly get traction?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

It happened real fast, gone over bumps like it 100 times with no problems. It had traction then I hit the bump car hopped then landed. I did not notice wheel spin. The gear broke right after hitting the bump. The bump was raised pavement from a repair in the road. I was WOT, but only at about 3.5k? Not at full boost yet, but moving, lol. I think the worn upper input shaft bearing had something to do with it.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

.therealvrt said:


> :thumbup:


 No worries.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Next tranny buy 2 qts. of Redline Shock proof gear oil. I'm loving it & you notice the difference when beating on it.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

^ i have that in AP gForce trans... shifts and feels perfect :thumbup:


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

PjS860ct said:


> ^ i have that in AP gForce trans... shifts and feels perfect :thumbup:


[jealous kid voice].....so...[/jealous kid voice]  .

Edit: How much did that setup run you? I don't think i could get that past the Mrs. It took a solid 2 yrs for me to convince her $5k on a turbo setup was worth it.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> Next tranny buy 2 qts. of Redline Shock proof gear oil. I'm loving it & you notice the difference when beating on it.


I don't know, I am kinda an amsoil guy myself. I might give it a try though, thanks.:thumbup:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> [jealous kid voice].....so...[/jealous kid voice]  .
> 
> Edit: How much did that setup run you? I don't think i could get that past the Mrs. It took a solid 2 yrs for me to convince her $5k on a turbo setup was worth it.


Gears are 2k+ new, but if you put them in yourself you can save a few bucks on labor.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

I bought mine used from zwogti... it was just rebuilt by AP when he sold it to me early last year.

It has the new revisioned 3-4 gears (straight cut) the pinion brace and a peloquin diffn REM polishing... bought it for 3200. Shipped

Hopefully it holds together with my new setup


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Not bad. It would be overkill for me. I'm only shooting for 400-450hp. Closer to 400. Plenty for the streets.

Now for the new project i have cooking....Definitely need a tranny like that.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

I think this kind of tranny is perfect for 400-450hp range... i broke 2 3rd gears within 3 months so i decided to spend the money right... which i should hav done from the beginning... n im only at 350-400whp then...

New setup should be good for 650 (track only power) but i will drive it on the street at 450


Next thing for me is another built tranny for back up  aka dog box


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

so bumpy roads? are tranny killers?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

codergfx said:


> so bumpy roads? are tranny killers?


 Wheel hop/partial traction? Yes.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Wheel hop/partial traction? Yes.


 Oo damn gonna watch wheel spin on bad roads lol


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

codergfx said:


> Oo damn gonna watch wheel spin on bad roads lol


Yes X2. I have decided to just slap my diff in another trans for now, they are cheap enough. Still looking for a good 3/4 slider or the complete slider hub if anyone has one, Also if someone has a decent third out of a CCM, I am game. Can't swing Lugtronic, new turbo and AP gears this year. I pick the first two for now.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

What turbo did you wind up going with? You went Holset right?


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I stripped my 3rd gear on the freeway doing a 90mph burnout.. when you break traction at
high speed get out of the gas...... I stayed on the throttle and when the tires hooked up
there went 3rd gear.









Wish i had the mony for Dog Gears.
:beer::beer:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

REPOMAN said:


> I stripped my 3rd gear on the freeway doing a 90mph burnout.. when you break traction at
> high speed get out of the gas...... I stayed on the throttle and when the tires hooked up
> there went 3rd gear.
> 
> ...


I lose traction in 3rd haven't had a problem with the gear yet hmm


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

That's probably due to I am running a bigger turbo and making 120 more whp at the same psi.
Just something else to watch out for.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Hey, it looks like mine, lol. I just have to be more careful I guess.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

codergfx said:


> I lose traction in 3rd haven't had a problem with the gear yet hmm


LSD? I loose traction in third now at 12psi ~300hp, one wheel wonder for now.:banghead: The bump I hit killed my trans, I might start running a cuff, I never drive on the highway.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

Same here! Lol i have 2 sets like these haha


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I don't think I have LSD but it spins em both


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## MiamiVr6T (Jul 24, 2004)

Solution (Straight cut 3rd and 4th gear):

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Group-Buy-for-GForce-APTuning-02A-02J-Gearset


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

so this is what you have been doing while i have been gone...


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Yes, breaking stuff. How you been buddy. Sucks I will be gone before you get back.:thumbdown:


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

im good, its not bad here at all but i am sure as **** ready to be back. yep thats gay you are going to be gone so soon, but what can you do...


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

So after studying numerous broken gears on the this site it appears that the input shaft gear is the weak link. Has anyone tried to soften this gear to improve it's shock resistance? It is my understanding the aftermarket gears are not hardened to the same extent as OEM gears. Just a thought.


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## JohnStamos (Feb 3, 2010)

*FV-QR*

I have cracked the pinion bearing inner race support once, chipped 3rd once, and 1st once in a NA 12v. It doesn't take much in these cars if you dead hook on real tires.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Thanks for your input. I am going to just rebuild my trans with a used third and replace all the bearings, I got the tools. Just can't swing the AP set right now. I was thinking of running a cuff, but I don't know how easily in comes off and on.

Oh and this trans has been in both my VRT's well over 400 ft lbs of torque for 20k. It also has seen at least 50 passes on real tires with low 1.8 60 ft's. Guess bumps kill transmissions, not slicks.:screwy:

What my previous post was getting at was having the small gear softened to increase its shear strength. I know it will decrease wear, but it should make it take more stress. Most of the gears I have seen that broke have most of the teeth on the big gear. Points at the input shaft gears as the weak link.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

GinsterMan98 said:


> So after studying numerous broken gears on the this site it appears that the input shaft gear is the weak link. Has anyone tried to soften this gear to improve it's shock resistance? It is my understanding the aftermarket gears are not hardened to the same extent as OEM gears. Just a thought.


i've broken gears just from pure load, no shock.

iirc there were a couple of cars that were running stock gears with a pinion brace, and were holding 600+ HP.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

TBT-Syncro said:


> i've broken gears just from pure load, no shock.
> 
> iirc there were a couple of cars that were running stock gears with a pinion brace, and were holding 600+ HP.


I'll figure something out, thanks for the input. :beer: Weekend project is new tie rods, ball joints, dust boots and control arm bushings. Should be fun.


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

i got a pinion brace, but that doesn't give me peace of mind
Going 02M does


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

pimS said:


> i got a pinion brace, but that doesn't give me peace of mind
> Going 02M does


02m handles more power?


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

Without a doubt


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

pimS said:


> Without a doubt


Dayum gotta get me a swap then!


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

Not that basic.

Check out Nater's How-To on a 02M swap


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

pimS said:


> Not that basic.
> 
> Check out Nater's How-To on a 02M swap


I realize that lol I'm sure if I can build a motor I can swap a tranny :thumbup:


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

codergfx said:


> I realize that lol I'm sure if I can build a motor I can swap a tranny :thumbup:


except one is just putting the parts together, and the other generally involves building and welding in custom mounts (unless you're swapping the 02m in to a mk4).

:beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Hardest part is the axles, right? I read Nater's write up and besides welding some mounts it doesn't look that bad. You should share when you get it started.:thumbup:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

TBT-Syncro said:


> except one is just putting the parts together, and the other generally involves building and welding in custom mounts (unless you're swapping the 02m in to a mk4).
> 
> :beer:


Axles also have to be custom when going into a MK3, correct?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Axles also have to be custom when going into a MK3, correct?


i believe there is a weird euro combo fitment thats a direct bolt on. easier to just go custom through raxles.


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## marat_g60 (Mar 5, 2003)

There are drop in axles for mk3's, check pimS's thread you'll find part numbers there. I did this swap without moving the rear cup, I just grinded away until I had enough clearance for the axle cup, then welded it to reinforce it. You need a custom tranny mount bracket and the front mount needs to be modified. Shawn (sdezego on here) makes them, they are very well designed and I believe its made of 1/4" steel. Once you get that done, the rest is a piece of cake, feel free to ask anything:thumbup:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

marat_g60 said:


> There are drop in axles for mk3's, check pimS's thread you'll find part numbers there. I did this swap without moving the rear cup, I just grinded away until I had enough clearance for the axle cup, then welded it to reinforce it. You need a custom tranny mount bracket and the front mount needs to be modified. Shawn (sdezego on here) makes them, they are very well designed and I believe its made of 1/4" steel. Once you get that done, the rest is a piece of cake, feel free to ask anything:thumbup:


I am open to anything really. What about ratios? Whats available with the 02M?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

TBT-Syncro said:


> except one is just putting the parts together, and the other generally involves building and welding in custom mounts (unless you're swapping the 02m in to a mk4).
> 
> :beer:


I'm in mk4


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## marat_g60 (Mar 5, 2003)

I think they're all about the same ratios, give or take a little. They're a little on the shorter side, but it worked out for me cause revving to 8k gave me a little more speed in every gear.
Ratios are similar to a CDM Corrado tranny. The weak link are the rivets in the forks. I disassembled mine with a buddy, reinforced the weak factory rivets, installed a diff, and it should be pretty reliable now.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

marat_g60 said:


> I think they're all about the same ratios, give or take a little. They're a little on the shorter side, but it worked out for me cause revving to 8k gave me a little more speed in every gear.
> Ratios are similar to a CDM Corrado tranny. The weak link are the rivets in the forks. I disassembled mine with a buddy, reinforced the weak factory rivets, installed a diff, and it should be pretty reliable now.


 What was done to the rivets??


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## marat_g60 (Mar 5, 2003)

either you can drill them out, and press in solid pins, or what I did was I left the rivets in place. The factory rivets are thin and hollow, I sourced some solid pins that would press into the factory rivets, now its solid and no way will that stuff break. Very simple fix while you have it all apart. Also there are 2 rivets which need to be drilled out, and a bolt and nut are used in place of them, then u tack the nut to the bolt so it doesnt back out. There are some write ups regarding this issue, a little searching will find all you need to know about the weak rivets.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

Marat_g60... Off topic but what is done to your engines head for you to be able to rev to 8k?

Thanks
- paolo


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

Petrol 02M boxes are abit short, but I really like it. So fun to drive. 
However here in Europe we have Golf/Bora mk4 TDI 4Motion, and they all had 02Ms 
And the ratios are long.... Long like 78mph in second gear 7000 rpm 205/40-17" and so on....

But my personal taste is the shorter gears. Only drawback is that I need fourth gear to have traction. I never drive past 100mph anyways 

When it comes to axels, you can use the short shaft from Euro Skoda Fabia RS axels and long shaft from Golf TDI.
I went Driveshaftshop. Direct bolt on, and no issues.
After 3 years with the 02M in my mk3 and boosting from 15-30 psi the 02M bracket that alot off companies sell is bent several times, threads are destroyed in the 02M casing and you cant weld it. Perfect.
Just got 2x 02M DRP V6 4Motion boxes in my garage. Some work to be done.

And yes, im swapping to mk4 gear mounts all the way.


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## marat_g60 (Mar 5, 2003)

PjS860ct said:


> Marat_g60... Off topic but what is done to your engines head for you to be able to rev to 8k?
> 
> Thanks
> - paolo


When i last dyno'd it with mild 268 cams and stock head, with a custom equal lenght runner manifold i had nubvr build me, it was still making power all the way to c2's rev limiter at 7.2k. Now the head is p&p'd ( was done by a man who knows his vr's very well) and am running TT 288's, also switched from .81 to .96 ar hotside, i believe it'll easly make power to 8k. Not that it makes a difference but the bottom end also got fully built along with the head. Oh and everything is controlled thru lugtronic now  Sorry OP for goin off topic


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

Sorry Ginsterman for going for topic... going to pm... :beer:


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## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

put a girdle on it to help with the case flex and it will help a lot.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

zwogti said:


> put a girdle on it to help with the case flex and it will help a lot.


Thanks for all the info guys.:beer:

Oh and I don't get real upset about side conversations, no worries.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Has anyone had dealing with this place? They offer a bearing overhaul kit that has caught my eye. I have the tools and info need to replace transmission bearings, just wondering if the place has a good reputation.
http://www.zelek.com/VW02A_Hard_Parts.htm


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

zwogti said:


> put a girdle on it to help with the case flex and it will help a lot.


Do you or does anyone know what the torque spec is on those four bolts, and any other tightening or general info that one should be aware of concerning those bolts. Also, can I just undo them to install the girdle without stuff falling away inside of the trans? :beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

'dubber said:


> Do you or does anyone know what the torque spec is on those four bolts, and any other tightening or general info that one should be aware of concerning those bolts. Also, can I just undo them to install the girdle without stuff falling away inside of the trans? :beer:


18 Ft Lbs plus 1/4 turn for the four pinion nuts inside the clutch housing. This thread is a great 02A reference if you don't mind the read. Also has most other torque specs and how to set preloads. In this thread the guy torques them to 18 Nm plus 1/4 and one breaks. Even though 18 Nm is only 13ish Ft Lbs, these bolt sometimes break, so be aware and prepared to pull the trans apart if this happens. Just wanted to warn you, proceed at your own risk. I learned a bunch from this thread. I used it to install my LSD last year and take my trans apart after busting third.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Bearing-Replacement-You-can-help!!-(I-need-it!!)

Now onto the girdle, if you buy the APT one you need to send your clutch housing to them to be machined to fit the pinion girdle. Auto Xtreme used to sell one that did not need machining, but I am unsure if they still sell it. To answer your other question, no nothing will fall into the trans if you remove the four nuts.


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## JohnStamos (Feb 3, 2010)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Has anyone had dealing with this place? They offer a bearing overhaul kit that has caught my eye. I have the tools and info need to replace transmission bearings, just wondering if the place has a good reputation.
> http://www.zelek.com/VW02A_Hard_Parts.htm



Zelek is great to deal through. Not the cheapest, but very convenient. 



On the pinion bolt, I do 25ft/lb with blue loc-tite. I dont agree with going 1/4 turn to set preload, on a TTY bolt that has already been yielded once, no matter what the FSM says. 

If you don't use a thread locker, and do it with lube, I wouldn't go much over 22ft/lbs.

I am way to weeny of those studs being streached past yield to go any higher.


This is also just what I do, so take it with a grain of salt.


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

That is interesting, the pics around 100-110 show how that goes together, I've never really seen what was going on there... 
Hmm...that snapped stud sure would suuuck....well he may have had some debris in the threads but if they are stretch bolts I don't know about going 18ft/lbs plus a quarter turn on a re-tightening...which is breaking the rules already...maybe an 1/8th and hope that the bearing preload is not disturbed too much, apparently those bolts will affect that as well. 

What do you guys think about installing a pinion girdle and torque specs on these studs/fasteners? I have the AutoXtreme version pinion plate, I got it through USRT recently. I actually need to stick it against the case and check the fitment, I've been lazing on that...


Ok I think that JohnStamos has posted while I was typing but I do not feel like editing or not posting. :beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

JohnStamos said:


> Zelek is great to deal through. Not the cheapest, but very convenient.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that info bro, your alright.:thumbup:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

'dubber said:


> That is interesting, the pics around 100-110 show how that goes together, I've never really seen what was going on there...
> Hmm...that snapped stud sure would suuuck....well he may have had some debris in the threads but if they are stretch bolts I don't know about going 18ft/lbs plus a quarter turn on a re-tightening...which is breaking the rules already...maybe an 1/8th and hope that the bearing preload is not disturbed too much, apparently those bolts will affect that as well.
> 
> What do you guys think about installing a pinion girdle and torque specs on these studs/fasteners? I have the AutoXtreme version pinion plate, I got it through USRT recently. I actually need to stick it against the case and check the fitment, I've been lazing on that...
> ...


Well, If your putting a pinion girdle on, bearing life is most likely low on the list of worries.:laugh: Preload is only for new hard parts or bearings anyway, after it has been used it no longer applies.


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

The Autoextreme will need a bit of modifying.
Mine had a big gap that wouldn't nicely close op when tihgtening.

I'd been thinking to install the girdle with some epoxy or something, to make it a uber-tight / nicelly filled up fitting.


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

Yeah I'm going to check mine tomorrow and see how it looks.

The box has been rebuilt and has not been run yet, maybe I do need to be concerned about affecting the pre-load. 

But who the hell knows if they even set it correctly, I'm assuming that they did since it's a shop that's supposed to know what they are doing. Maybe I should just put that thing on there and see how it goes, or maybe I should run the trans first to break in the bearings and then put in the girdle, which means I'm probably not going back in there just to put in the girdle. Buuut then if the box breaks because I didnt put in the girdle OMG!!!  Then I go insane!!! That would mean that I should have put it in!! :beer: I'll probably just put it in.


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

'dubber said:


> Yeah I'm going to check mine tomorrow and see how it looks.
> 
> The box has been rebuilt and has not been run yet, maybe I do need to be concerned about affecting the pre-load.
> 
> But who the hell knows if they even set it correctly, I'm assuming that they did since it's a shop that's supposed to know what they are doing. Maybe I should just put that thing on there and see how it goes, or maybe I should run the trans first to break in the bearings and then put in the girdle, which means I'm probably not going back in there just to put in the girdle. Buuut then if the box breaks because I didnt put in the girdle OMG!!!  Then I go insane!!! That would mean that I should have put it in!! :beer: I'll probably just put it in.


Just put the girdle on, it has no effect on the bearing pre-load.
The output shaft must be set at a preload of 180NM, according to the VW manual


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

To everyone who shared some great info in this thread, Thanks.:beer:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Ok, just ordered all the bearings and seals to rebuild my trans. I have never done any documentation of any builds I have done, but might give it a shot with this. I will be starting this once I get settled in FL. I already have the case cleaned and all the parts cleaned, stripped and prepped for assembly. Harbor freight FTMFW! That $120.00 press they have is perfect for small FWD transmissions. I also bought the small internal bearing puller to get the pinion race out the case. After some grinding, it works great. I will post pics of the tools later.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> gear lube stinks soo bad


yes it does. 

I am going to be replacing the bearings in the other spare trans and my try my hand at a write up if anyone is interested. Never done it before, but I think this would be fun.


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

I recently went with some amsoil 75-90 gl-4 and it has almost no smell. It smells like light cooking oil. It's also affordable and seems to work very well although I cannot report on cold weather performance.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Cold weather is good, That is the gear oil I run. I have also run the severe gear from Amsoil, my father in law is a dealer, lol. Thanks for the heads up though, Amsoil is good ish.


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