# Any suggestions for Micro suede headliner material. First hand experiances?



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Alright Interior Forum don't let me down. I have searched for a while for this one and haven't had any luck finding exactly what I am looking for although I have seen it done a lot. 

I am looking for a micro Suede material *UV resistant* in black that *stretches 2 ways* and will work well as a headliner A/B/C pillar material. I have been to my local upholstery shops and they don't carry anything everything they have will not stretch enough to fill the pockets for say grab handles and such. 

I want to tackle this myself as i am a very hands on mod happy person. I am not afraid to attempt this and have a extra headliner already striped down to the board to play with. 

And experienced DIYers out there have any recommendations of material brand and where I can purchase such? 

Thanks, 

-Einkauf


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

I would also be interisted in the New Black headliner / ABC pillar material in the Newer Gen VW's that stuff looks sharp but alas it seems to be equaly as dificult to find...


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Opinions? Experiences? 

http://www.yourautotrim.com/suheobl.html


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Jeez this forum moves slow...


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

OK, I have done so many micro-suede headliners its not funny. Many have 3D logos in them as well. I have several different materials that I can go with. You have the super expensive materials like Alcantara, Ultrasuede, and Sensuede....all of which suck to work with for stretchability. Then you have mid priced materials like Miami suede, Synergy suede, and Street suede that are a little easier to deal with.

There are a lot of different ways to go about making the materials "flex" and "walk". Some require removing the cloth backer on the materials. All require that you have an industrial steamer to make them properly "flex" into shape. I also recommend using a good contact adhesive like weldwood landau top adhesive to spray out of a paint gun. All aerosol glues are garbage and a waste.

You also want to make sure that you clean the board off properly. If it still feels sticky before you glue it, your glue WILL fail. Trust me, I know.

:beer:


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

KDI_CUSTOMS said:


> OK, I have done so many micro-suede headliners its not funny. Many have 3D logos in them as well. I have several different materials that I can go with. You have the super expensive materials like Alcantara, Ultrasuede, and Sensuede....all of which suck to work with for stretchability. Then you have mid priced materials like Miami suede, Synergy suede, and Street suede that are a little easier to deal with.
> 
> There are a lot of different ways to go about making the materials "flex" and "walk". Some require removing the cloth backer on the materials. All require that you have an industrial steamer to make them properly "flex" into shape. I also recommend using a good contact adhesive like weldwood landau top adhesive to spray out of a paint gun. All aerosol glues are garbage and a waste.
> 
> ...



Absolutly perfect info this is what I have been looking for, I find myself being a reletivly advanced DIYer and know not to cut corners on materials and prep, thank you for the input after I finish building this:














































I plan on Just doing a Black Suede Wrap all around but i just dont want to deal with sagging fadeing bull****.

In your experiance which suede do you think will stretch / resist sun fade the best?


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

Sun fade is gonna be hard to say. The pillars are exposed the most to the severity of the sun. I always suggest tinting windows to help cut down on sun damage. That being said, Alcantara is suppose to be the best for sun fading. They wrap dashes with the stuff so Im guessing its gotta be good. I dont have my charts in front of me, but I believe that the Sensuede and Synergy suede are high on the sun chart as well.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Ordered 3 yards of the sensuede to try some stuff out hopefully with some work it will be stretchy enough to fit into the O-shat handles, its cheap enough and had some nice uv ratings/ wear ratings. Thanks for the info bud i will let you all know how it works out. :beer:


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

Cool. Yes, Id like to know how it works out. Where did you order it from?

Hint: You may have to steam it to get it into the creases properly and also remember to use a good glue.

:thumbup:


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

I plan on using the welwood contact cement as sugested in a few other threads. If it stretches enough i will start wrapping the easy bits like the a b c and rear deck. 

The headliner and rear deck will be foam backed and pillars will be non foam backed there is also the option of preforated for a little more stretch.

Here is where I ordered from :thumbup:

http://www.miamicorp.com/products/C.../SYNERGY SUEDE.aspx?category=Synergy+Suede+ll

It was cheap enough so I figured I would give it a go! thanks for your input i will be sure to let you know how it works out. It seems like i will be addign a steamer to my tool pile as well :thumbup:


----------



## votblindub (May 1, 2008)

I'm going to follow this thread for more advise and possibly progress pictures. I'd very much like to replace non black parts of both my car's pillars and headliner with a black/charcoal material.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

votblindub said:


> I'm going to follow this thread for more advise and possibly progress pictures. I'd very much like to replace non black parts of both my car's pillars and headliner with a black/charcoal material.


I am still waiting on the material to show up but once i get it i will certainly take progress pictures :thumbup: and write up how easy / hard it was. This is my first headliner install ever so i am starting from scratch. :thumbup:


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Material just shipped haha...

They were holdign the entire order because the sample card that I ordered with the Suede was on backorder... so I just told them to scrap the stupid card and ship the goods :thumbup:


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

Yep, Ive been waiting on color cards myself for months now. They arent available yet and they dont have any pics of the colors either.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

KDI_CUSTOMS said:


> Yep, Ive been waiting on color cards myself for months now. They arent available yet and they dont have any pics of the colors either.


Yeah I just wanted a color card for refrence but I figure.... they cant screw up JET BLACK so i went ahead and ordered it without knowing what it looks like. It would have been nice to see the other color varities but for me that just a bonus because everything i am doing will be jet black.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

The suede came in! I have a few projects to get out of the way first then its time to get on this :thumbup: I will be makeing updates on it on my build thread once i start if anyone is interisted on the outcome. :thumbup:


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Alright so I am takeing my time with this learning as I go. My biggest problem so far has been glue bleeding through. I noticed this happening in 2 places One where i use my clamps to hole the material tight while it dries, and 2 where there is to much glue. 

I am using Dap Contact Cement as suggested above and it holds GREAT! but it does dry sort of fast 2-3 minutes before its tacky and it does work its way though the material sometimes...

Now I also noticed on the ABC pillar there is a cotton layer that i did not remove, i am starting to think I should have removed the cotton as this is where the glue is being absorbed like a sponge and being squeesed through the suede when I put pressure on it. 

Now to confirm that this cotton layer is part of the problem i Wrapped the sunroof shade last night which was cleaned down to the fiberglass and after a nice coat of glue directly on the fiberglass I got little to no bleed through onto the suede. Again primarily i believe because the glue had nothign to soak into before I put the suede on. 

To fix the glue spots I am dabbing a damp cloth soaked in carb cleaner to break down the glue and using a brass brush to free up the fibers of the suede. It is not perfect when done but it does remove the flat hard suede spots. When its all said and done I dont think you will notice the imperfections as you can only see them when you are ontop of the material.


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

I have a couple of pointers for ya.

1. Spray the glue on out of an old style paint gun. The ones that are bottom fed. It will give you a fan pattern that will atomize the glue and make it so it wont bleed cause it goes on lightly. Also, only do half the headliner at a time. I usually work front to rear, which is the same way the nap of the suede should run. Also, when the glue is sprayed, you should let it tack before putting the material down.

2. Not sure you did this or not but, re pad the headliner before laying the suede. Basically, you want to have the stripped/cleaned board re padded with a headliner material so it gives the plush feel to the suede.

3. You can leave the cotton or strip the pillars. It will work either way. I usually take a wire wheel to the pillars to clean them up. If you strip them down and want a padded feel, cover them in headliner prior to suede.

4. Use a good industrial steamer to get it to contour into the handle grip area, around the front center bezel, down into the visor pockets, and around the front A pillar ears.

You will quickly see why I charge $600+ for a suede headliner and pillars!!! Most people dont realize that this is tedious work to get right.

BTW, you shouldnt have to clamp it in place to get it to hold.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

KDI_CUSTOMS said:


> I have a couple of pointers for ya.
> 
> 1. Spray the glue on out of an old style paint gun. The ones that are bottom fed. It will give you a fan pattern that will atomize the glue and make it so it wont bleed cause it goes on lightly. Also, only do half the headliner at a time. I usually work front to rear, which is the same way the nap of the suede should run. Also, when the glue is sprayed, you should let it tack before putting the material down.
> 
> ...


Gotcha, I havent actualy started on the headliner yet the suede I am using for the ABC pillars and accessories is the nonpadded version of the Sensuede I dident want huge poofy ABC pillars.
(I will be ordering the padded suede for the headlienr portion and the rear deck however)

I also dont have access to a aircompresor which i can see would be the way to go I am lightly coating the glue on with a foam brush and letting it tack up a little as you said. Again the problem I encounter with bleed through happens when the glue soaks into the pre-existing cotton and then pushes out like a sponge when I stretch the material over it.

So far I have been able to get everything with 0 wrinkles! Which I think is not to shabby. I only use the clamps for a minute or 2 as I work the material over the pillars I don’t leave them on there as the material holds itself after 2-3 minutes of setting.



Question for you.

When you steam the Negative contours like the O**** handles and such do you glue first then steam the material into the pocket? Won’t the water soaked suede not stick to the glue? I have not had to work the material into a pocket yet so I don’t know how it will react. 

I feel like I am getting better as I go, already i have thoughts of redoing the ABC pillars because i am sure I could get them on there without the glue bleeding through by removing the cotton layer.

The sunroof shade came out PERFECT with 0 glue bleeding through (I know it is one of the easiest pieces to do but still having the glue put down, letting it tack up slightly then applying the suede seems to work like a charm.

I will try to get some pictures up for you tonight so you can see what i am up to. Thanks for all of your help. I can easily see how you can charge 600 for a suede headliner this is a extremely time consuming and delicate operation! Unfortunately the Upholstery shops near me didn’t think they could do it... :screwy: So I had to take matters into my own hands haha.


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

I would of done it for ya! Hell, I have customers sending me stuff from up north in NH, CT, NY and so on.

Steaming is usually done after the glue has tacked up really good. I recommend steam for this job , but you may also be able to get away with using a small hair dryer. Be careful to not burn the material!! This will also let you learn what the limits of the material is. I suggest you try something with your glue and some small scraps. You could also brush the glue on some scraps and let it dry. Now take a hair dryer and lightly heat it to see if it reactivates or gets sticky again. If it does, then when you do the job itself, let the glue flash out to almost dry, hit it with some steam/heat and work it into the pockets. Gently hold it in place until it starts to cool and it should adhere.

Basically what you want to do for areas like the handle pockets is to work the material into the pocket at the deep end and then work it toward the shallow. In my opinion, this makes it easier tho get the wrinkles out. When I do a headliner, I glue one half of the board (either front or rear), let it tack, and then lay the material down working from center outward. I stop at the pocket of the handles so I can come back and work them out to the edges and finish off the board edges at the same time. This allows me to get out any wrinkles in that area.

The other fun part you are going to have is with the sunroof opening. Depending on how stiff the material is, it can be a b1tch to get it to contour around those curves.


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

This is one I did a while back. 3D running rabbit in an 05 GTI. Also did the pillars and dyed the plastics.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

KDI_CUSTOMS said:


> This is one I did a while back. 3D running rabbit in an 05 GTI. Also did the pillars and dyed the plastics.


Holy Crap! Thats some nice work! I will have to post up pictures of all my stuff when i get a chance. 

Also the error in my ways so far is not waiting for the glue to tack completely it seems i only had problems on a few of the pieces that i was able to fix by working the material with a brush but when i do the headliner and the B pillars i will certainly let the glue tack more before applying the material. I will also experiment tonight to see if my heat gun affects the glue and test it out on some scraps to see if it melts or not.

Thanks for the pointers again! this is a fun project! :wave:


Edit: I got about this far, the other C pillar is complete but it needs to be trimmed and the back glued. There is alot of work that happenes on the back of these things that you will never see I am makeing sure to wrap the material around the edges and realy glue it down on the backside. Dont know if it is necessary or not but i like the extra hold it gives.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Alright so while stairing at your work again durring lunch I came up with a few more questions... What do you typicly do with the door trim parts that follow the door jam.

Do you typicly just Dye these? or do you strip the OEM material from the rubber and reupholster them to match?

And finally you said you dyed the plastics? whats your experiance with this? i have bought most of the OEM black plastics but there are a few specialty parts i have such as the interior monitoring system dome lights and the Passat GLX home link sunvisors that never came OEM in black... i planned on painting these but i realy dont want to as i know its going to not last very long...

Do you have any insight on the dye process? is there a particular dye I should use if i went this route? How long does it hold up? and would I be able to apply it on the plastics and the vinyl sunvisor?

-Einkauf


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

There are several routes as far as dying parts goes. Cleanliness is a huge part in painting or dying anything. I like to clean plastic parts up really well with a little dish soap and water. I then us scuff-it by 3M and a grey scuff pad to give the dye something to bite to. I clean them a second time with warm water to remove any Scuff-it. I then wipe them down with alcohol and let them dry. 

The dyes I use are Color Bond and SEM. You can use VHT or any other brand. You can even purchase stuff from automotive paint stores that is manufactured by PPG and BASF that are for this type of job. I suggest you either disassemble or tape off stuff really well when dying these parts. I usually use fine line tape or plastic tape. This gives a clean edge to the items once they are sprayed. I also suggest using either satin black or a skid mark black color to keep with the satin finish of the suede.

I usually dye the cloth parts around the doors. You cna strip them and wrap them, but it is time consuming. I have done it in the past. Most people either dye them or buy black ones.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

KDI_CUSTOMS said:


> There are several routes as far as dying parts goes. Cleanliness is a huge part in painting or dying anything. I like to clean plastic parts up really well with a little dish soap and water. I then us scuff-it by 3M and a grey scuff pad to give the dye something to bite to. I clean them a second time with warm water to remove any Scuff-it. I then wipe them down with alcohol and let them dry.
> 
> The dyes I use are Color Bond and SEM. You can use VHT or any other brand. You can even purchase stuff from automotive paint stores that is manufactured by PPG and BASF that are for this type of job. I suggest you either disassemble or tape off stuff really well when dying these parts. I usually use fine line tape or plastic tape. This gives a clean edge to the items once they are sprayed. I also suggest using either satin black or a skid mark black color to keep with the satin finish of the suede.
> 
> I usually dye the cloth parts around the doors. You can strip them and wrap them, but it is time consuming. I have done it in the past. Most people either dye them or buy black ones.


Once again thank you!

I managed to completely wrap a B Pillar with 0 clamps, 0 glue bleed through and 0 wrinkles!

Listing to your advice of letting the Glue Tack more, and using a heat gun carefully to work the material. It works so much better that i kind of feel the need to redo some of the previous parts already haha... I feel like i am learning fast and can already see the quality difference between my first piece and this latest piece.

I also tried to form some scrap to the extra headliner center console area around the sunroof controls and i was able to get it to form in all of the compound pockets without any problem again working the material and using heat to assist. I know it will be more difficult with the real material but this is a good sign / motivational accomplishment!

Now as long as this Sensuede holds up to the UV i think I am in business! I should have done this eons ago.

Thanks again :wave:


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

Sensuede has a high UV rating. It should be fine for what you are using it for. Take your time with the job and it will turn out good. Post up pics as you make progress.

Im glad I could help. I figure, if Im not getting the jobs due to DIYers, at least I know I am telling you the proper way to do it so it is not being half assed and screwed up. I hate these people that claim 3M spray adhesive is the way to go and to use garbage material from jo ann fabrics. Do it right with quality materials and take pride in what you have accomplished!

:beer:


----------



## Jeffeypoo (Sep 11, 2011)

My first job 5 yeas ago: high temp spray (live in FL) and garbage ralph lauren suede from jo-ans


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Jeffeypoo said:


> My first job 5 yeas ago: high temp spray (live in FL) and garbage ralph lauren suede from jo-ans



Nice :thumbup:

Alright so I officially hit my first roadblock haha. 

The rear deck is giving me alooot of trouble because frankly it soaks up the glue so fast...

2 attempts and no sticking no matter how much glue I use...

Hrmmm


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

This is where the spray gun comes in handy. Im assuming this is the package tray that is carpeted and sits at the back window. You may have to strip the carpet off of it since you are brushing the glue not spraying it.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

KDI_CUSTOMS said:


> This is where the spray gun comes in handy. Im assuming this is the package tray that is carpeted and sits at the back window. You may have to strip the carpet off of it since you are brushing the glue not spraying it.


The actual rear deck is made of like compressed carpet material, first i tried to glue directly onto the existing fabric,that absorbed the glue instantly. Then i striped the existing fabric off and tried to glue it to the cardboard/carpet material that makes up the rear deck, and that dried up instantly as well no matter how much glue i put on there it keeps soaking it up haha., i will have to try another tactic tonight...


----------



## NOpassattimmy (Oct 13, 2011)

I just thought of something looking at another thread that may help you out, kind of a crude way to do it but it might be worth a shot especially if you have a spare rear deck laying around from one of your other cars.

In the other thread someone mentioned they tried burning off the fuzz on the B-pillars, but it just melted, so I was thinking that maybe depending on the material they used on the rear deck, it might be worth it to just take a lighter and do it to a small spot of the rear deck to see it it hardens up pretty well.

If that works then you could probably grab a small torch and carefully go over the whole deck. I would be really careful though so as to not actually melt any holes or dips into it. the when your'e done you could fill any slight imperfections with bondo (we did this for a seat mold in FSAE) sand it all smooth, cover it with epoxy, then glue to that.

It's a bit of an interesting way, but you'd essentially be making a mold and just gluing the fabric to it. Might be worth a shot bud:wave:


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

passattimmy said:


> I just thought of something looking at another thread that may help you out, kind of a crude way to do it but it might be worth a shot especially if you have a spare rear deck laying around from one of your other cars.
> 
> In the other thread someone mentioned they tried burning off the fuzz on the B-pillars, but it just melted, so I was thinking that maybe depending on the material they used on the rear deck, it might be worth it to just take a lighter and do it to a small spot of the rear deck to see it it hardens up pretty well.
> 
> ...


I am not gona lie I tried this first with my spare deck I had. Ended up exploding in a ball of flame so I dont suggest it to anyone else haha... Luckly i was able to throw the frcking thing outside but still prety dangerious method haha.

My revised idea involvs simply coating the cloth in resin to seal it up so it wont soak up all the glue. I only have one more GLX deck left thats in my current car so thats why its takeing me so long to actualy do it. Might be a spring project I think its to cold for the glue and crap now.

The ABC pillars came out PERFECT as i ended up redoing the A and C pillars letting the glue tack before i apply the suede and it makes a world of a difrence. No clips needed to make the material stretch to where i want. Looks Awesome!.

Cant wait to finish the headliner with the sunglass holder.


----------



## NOpassattimmy (Oct 13, 2011)

Einkaufswagen said:


> I am not gona lie I tried this first with my spare deck I had. Ended up exploding in a ball of flame so I dont suggest it to anyone else haha... Luckly i was able to throw the frcking thing outside but still prety dangerious method haha.
> 
> My revised idea involvs simply coating the cloth in resin to seal it up so it wont soak up all the glue. I only have one more GLX deck left thats in my current car so thats why its takeing me so long to actualy do it. Might be a spring project I think its to cold for the glue and crap now.
> 
> ...


Okay I'll take note of that haha

The resin should work, hopefully you can get it so that it doesn't come out lumpy.

Hopefully I'll be starting to wrap soon, gonna start with my door cards and dying/painting plastic pieces then do the headliner over spring break


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

When you go to dye / paint (although you should avoid it as much as possible) It seems the best approach is this:


1.Remove parts from car.
2.Liberally apply SEM Vinyl Prep.
3.Wait a few minutes.
4.Rinse & let dry.
5.Apply several light coats of SEM Color Coat Landau Black.
6.Allow to dry overnight.
7.Reinstall parts in car.

Landau black seems to match the OEM satin black the best and people have had good success with SEM over long term abuse.


----------



## NOpassattimmy (Oct 13, 2011)

Yeah I was planning on using SEM from what I've read. I'll only be doing it on some spare parts to test it then on the mirror, everything else I'm gonna try to pick up along the way.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

Just ordered all the SEM stuff i need, Been meaning to do it for a while but jsut never remembered. Il let you know how it works out. I need to paint a few things, Mirror, Interior monitoring, Homelink Sunvisors,Mk5 Sunglass holder,Onstar panel, W8 console, the stupid clips that hold myrear sunshade, And a few other odds and ends. Gona be another fun project lol.


----------



## KDI_CUSTOMS (Mar 22, 2008)

Einkaufswagen said:


> Just ordered all the SEM stuff i need, Been meaning to do it for a while but jsut never remembered. Il let you know how it works out. I need to paint a few things, Mirror, Interior monitoring, Homelink Sunvisors,Mk5 Sunglass holder,Onstar panel, W8 console, the stupid clips that hold myrear sunshade, And a few other odds and ends. Gona be another fun project lol.


Make sure you clean and lightly scuff up all the plastic parts before you dye them so that the dye has something to "bite" into. I hear bulldog adhesion promoter works well but havent tried it.


----------



## Einkaufswagen (Oct 25, 2009)

KDI_CUSTOMS said:


> Make sure you clean and lightly scuff up all the plastic parts before you dye them so that the dye has something to "bite" into. I hear bulldog adhesion promoter works well but havent tried it.


I ended up getting the sem plastic cleaner as well as the sem adhesion promoter I'll try some test pieces first and give them a good rub test / beating after its cured. Gonna clean scuff clean again rinse promote and paint.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## mk6nick (Jul 31, 2013)

Great thread! I hope to do something similar for my Mk6 before SoWo. Ever have any experience with velvet? Would like to try this on my pillars (windows will be heavily tinted)


----------



## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

Grey Ultrasuede. Had a shop do it and really happy with the results for the overall investment. Prolly about $225 which included the moonroof slider, headliner, dome light cover, fabric and labor. The shop couldn't of been happier that they didn't have to do the install or remove of the headliner. The upolstory guy chuckled when I took him out to the car and pulled the parts out of the trunk. Spent the dough saved by using generic suede fabric on a set of new visors from VW Classic Parts. Fresh new grey that'll be good for another 23 years.



petethepug said:


> Finally this project can be called complete. The Mk IV slider was tan so the plastic vent is also tan. It's much less noticeable without the flash showing the contrast against the grey headliner fabric. The sun visors do their thing just by being new and clean replacements. This was a PITA but well worth it to have a Mk III Passat Moonroof in perfect working order.
> 
> The B4 moonroof from NEPA was wasted thanks to FedEx. It was returned to the seller and eligible for full reimbursement. CuRide hooked me up with another B3 moonroof last week. Between that and all the parts from the Jetta III moonroof guts from xet33 I can just about cover any needed repair in the future. Yes that is another Oh Sheet handle on the driver side from a UK A pillar.


----------

