# DE NYSSCHEN: Questions and Comments for Johan de Nysschen, President, Audi of America



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*We've created this thread so that people can post questions and comments for Johan in one central place. We're not limiting the discussion to this thread and welcome you to start your own. Johan will be focusing out in this forum and may visit other threads including older threads that predate this announcement. Still, we ask you to make it easier for him to navigate by either posting in here. Based on our past Q&A session with Allan McNish, this is where we expect the bulk of the discussion to take place. However, if you do start another thread, please include the name 'DE NYSSCHEN' in the title in order to more easily call his attention to the thread.

BEGIN JOHAN DE NYSSCHEN ANNOUNCEMENT*

There's no denying the Audi brand is white hot, boasting record sales around the world including a current shattering of the all-time record here in the USA. Leading the charge through this aggressive growth and even more aggressive growth targets is Audi of America President Johan de Nysschen. Over the years we've worked with him we've found Mr. de Nysschen to be highly meticulous in his management of the company and its practices, extremely defined in his understanding of the brand's position, and a rabid enthusiast for both Audi road and race cars. Following along as he presents alongside Stephen Colbert at a major auto show or simply following him in traffic as he launches his RS 6 Avant company car into a four-wheel chirped launch near Audi of America headquarters, we've enjoyed witnessing his breakneck pace.

We'll admit, we're fascinated with both where the man has brought the Audi brand in the USA and where he plans to take it. Following an in-depth conversation about motorsport with Johan and Emanuele Pirro at an R8 GT owner event held in Sonoma last month, we knew we'd identified our next subject for a guest appearance on the Fourtitude discussion forums and are pleased to announce that Johan has accepted the invitation.

On Thursday July 28 from 2:30-4:30 PM EST (US), Johan will log on to the Fourtitude discussion forums as ‘Johan de Nysschen’ in order to field questions by Fourtitude readers and other Audi enthusiasts in our Audi Lounge forum. Mr. de Nysschen will be checking in throughout that time block either via Audi Connect in the back of his A8 or from Audi headquarters in Herndon, VA.

Those of us on the Fourtitude staff would like to formally invite all of our current readers and anyone else to ask Johan questions, and in particular those about Audi performance. We're guessing much of this will center around hot new Audi models like the TT RS and R8 GT, as well as motorsport which is a particular passion for Johan. And, knowing our readers, we doubt it will end there.










All you need in order to take part is an active user account on our forums. If you don’t have one already, you can create one in a matter of minutes and all you need is an active email address with which to pair the account. Also, we'll be posting updates from the conversation on both Facebook and Twitter but if you want to ask a question you'll have to post it here.

At the end of Johan's visit, we’ve asked him to pick what he believes to be the two most interesting questions or comments he comes across during his stay. We’ll ship each of these two participants a 1:43 scale model of the Audi RS 5 coupe as a way to say thank-you for your participation.

As we’ve said in the past with previous guests like last month's Allan McNish, we ask you to be polite and welcoming to Johan. In addition, please understand that while he’s often very open to answering all of our own in-depth and sometimes geeky questions, he still can’t tell you confidential information and the like. Please bear that in mind.

Also, we’ve disabled the private messaging function for Johan's account because he’s got just two hours in his busy schedule for this visit and we don’t want to fill that up with private messages whereby the rest of the forum doesn’t get to interact. In that regard, please understand that he won’t be responding to the forum’s private messaging system.

Of course we'll be actively monitoring the discussion and as Fourtitude's lead editor, I'll be working from Johan's office that day to help better host the discussion. I can be reached via these forums or by email george(at)fourtitude.com.


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## BPBR8 (Jul 22, 2011)

*New S6 Avant for USA?*

I now have 160,000 miles on my custom 2003 S6 Avant so will want to replace it in the next year or two as I approach the 200,000 mi mark. I now have nearly 600,000 total miles on this and my previous Audis. Also happen to have a beautiful custom R8. I have a real need for an avant's carrying capacity & am not a candidate for a Q model. Can you offer me any hope that you will not abandon me or my end of the market and will offer a new version of the S6 Avant, or at least an A6 Avant with S suspension?


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## A4Jetta (Feb 16, 1999)

*Have Audi still committed to bringing wagons to Stateside?*

Audi is, first and foremost, an engineering and design-driven company. Their committment of selling prettiest sportswagons and mini-wagon like A4/A6 Avant and A3 Sportback, as a perfect combination of minalist styling, performance, dynamic abilities with practicality have always been their forefront in the industry. Is Audi USA still committed on selling A4/A6 Avant and A3 Sportback in near future, even if their Q5 sold like hotcakes? While I can understand there are appealing factors for CUV, there are those of us traditionalist prefer the most rational choice in the marketplace. That segment is called station wagon, and Audi has aplenty of knowledge for building great ones.

Audi has been very successful with their performance S, RS and R8. Will they further committed by bringing us the next RS3, RS4 and RS6/RS7 to our shore. I really hope to see the return of the Coupe Quattro as well as the rumored R4 or R5.

As an engineering and technological-driven carmaker. Would Audi empahsize more on diesel powertrains over hybrid, although latter attract more greenies in California, in upcoming product portfolio?


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## Golden0009 (Oct 12, 2008)

*Product Line*

Hello Johan de Nysschen. I wanted to thank you in advance for taking time to connect with this enthusiast audience. I feel that spending a few moments with this group is a valuable use of your time as many of us have been Audi brand ambassadors for a long time.

*I have questions about the product gaps that we have in North America* (i.e. Audi A1, A3 two door, A3 Cabrio, S3, RS3, A4 Allroad, S4 Avant, A5 Sportback, S5 Sportback, A6 Avant, A6 Allroad, Q3, etc). 

*I understand that a lot of these are so called "enthusiast or niche products" and that the cost of certifying each new model is significant, but how is a tiny market such as Australia able to offer a full product line?* I am mostly curious since North America is one of the few markets Audi lags significantly behind Mercedes and BMW. Are there any significant product launches coming for North America that you anticipate will close this gap? Thank you.


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## silverstroke (Jan 8, 2006)

*A5 Sportback and Other Questions*

Mr de Nysschen,

Thank you for taking your time and stopping by at the Fourtitude, to answer to Audi enthusiasts’ questions.

My first question is also related to Golden009’s product line post. When the A5 Sportback was first launched in Europe and in the rest of the world, Audi enthusiasts here in the USA were quite disappointed that the car was not available in the North American market. There were rumors that the lack of availability was due to the design and crash test requirement of the roof panel. Now that the new A5 face lifted model line has been announced in Europe could you comment on whether there is a chance that the new A5 Sportback is coming to the USA market? 

Second part of my question: As a reader of many automotive forums and internet portals I have a sense that there is a clear disconnect between what the automobile manufacturer’s think the American car buyer want in general, and what is being communicated through by the enthusiasts on these pages. Automakers seem to think that the American buying public is only interested purchasing sedans/SUVs with automatic transmission, and gasoline engines. Audi enthusiasts meanwhile have been demanding for years more station wagons, hatchback/sportback body styles, diesel engines, and manual/dual clutch transmission offerings. Audi finally started to sell TDI engines in its A3 and Q7 model offerings, but despite of being the leader of diesel technology in Europe, the company has been slow to offer the diesel variants in its more popular model lines. Can we expect the availability of diesel engines and more transmission choices in the future in Audi’s higher selling model lines, such as the A4/A5, Q5, or maybe even the A6?

And finally a third question which is also a pet-peeve of mine. Is there any particular reason why Audi in North America decided to switch to red rear turn signals several years ago from the amber color used in the past? Personally I think, and many Audi enthusiasts agree, that the amber turn signals not only look better, they give better visibility and safer than the red turn signals sold on Audi cars in the USA. From a manufacturing point of view it is also an extra cost item of stocking rear light designs that are only used in the USA, when the amber ones are also acceptable here and they are much more desirable by the buyers. I know that there are certain DOT requirements, but designing a universal rear light design should not be that challenging.

Thank you for answering my questions.


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## Cobalt Rain (May 14, 2011)

*A3 MQB Sportback Availability*

Mr. de Nysschen,

Thank you again for taking the time to answer our questions.

My interest is in the A3 MQB:

1. Does Audi have an estimated availability month for this vehicle in the U.S.?

2. There has been some suggestion that the A3 MQB will NOT be available as a Sportback in the U.S., but rather only as a sedan. Perhaps this is to avoid cannibalization versus the Q3... Can you comment on this?

3. Can you comment on current plans to bring the Q3 to the US?

4. I would love to hear more about what the MQB platform brings to V.A.G. in general, and what it brings to future Audi models specifically.

Thanks!


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## audiuser84 (Jul 26, 2011)

Hello Mr. DE NYSSCHEN,

I have been an avid audi enthusiast for quite some time now and just have a few question to ask. I notice that in Europe that Audi has started to introduce many RS branded cars like the rs3, ttrs, and rs5 at a much shorter interval than before. Is this going to be a new trend for Audi? And will the NA market be able to get these cars as quickly as Europe or will the RS cars only come to NA when a cars lifecycle is about to end? 
In addition, has Audi been keeping a close eye on other performance divisions such as M and AMG and how those two manufacturers are spawning special variants of their performance cars such as the black series and gts/csl. If so, does Audi have plans to produce something that is similar to their offerings?
Lastly, is there any jobs avaliable at Audi? =) 

Most importanly thank you for taking your time to answer these questions!


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

*Audi Future Sales, Customer Service, and lower cost.*

Mr De Nysschen

Thank you for taking the time.

I am an owner of a US Model 2007 A3. 

My questions are:

1)When do we get to see Audi (and VW) on the top list of JD Powers, and other Top Customer Service polls and surveys. I love my 2007 A3, unfortunately, the ownership is marred by an otherwise less than stellar customer service and product design flaw/failures. 

2) With the rumored plan of a North American factory, is this to increase productions of your specialty cars? Or is this a plan to meet current or future mainstream demands and will that result in affordable products from Audi since they will be locally made?

3) Please bring the future Audi A3 sportback and sedan in the states!!!!!! 

Thank you sincerely!!!


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## lefkonj (Jul 26, 2011)

*Q7 Question*

I have a very simply question regarding the Q7. Why no rear seat entertainment system in the US? There is one in Europe, its sister the Cayenne has one, and the A8 has one. Vehicles from mini-vans to min-SUVs to full fledged SUVs offer one and its expected on a 50k or greater SUV. 

I was looking at a Q7 and one of the things that turned me off was the crazy lack of this option, not to mention the unbelievably arrogant sales person who made me feel like crap because I was negotiating price.


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## youry (Jul 26, 2006)

*Audi rs5*

I'll be direct to spare you some of your valuable time.

1) When will the RS5 be availble in NA
2) Will it be also facelifted as we just have seen for the A5/S5 ?
3) If yes to question 2, how can that car already be facelifted when it has been sold for only 1 year and the car is perfect as is.

Thanks,

Youry


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## IgorRGTI (Apr 7, 2010)

I'd like to ask about Audi's financial plans in regards to leases.

Back a couple of years ago, there were some VERY favorable leases on several different Audi models, particularly A4s, which was due to significantly higher residuals than currently available.

Are there any plans to potentially institute higher residuals in order to make leasing Audi's more attractive? Particularly when compared with BMW and Infiniti, Audi lease deals aren't that great.

With the aggressive sales goals that have been published, it seems making more attractive lease deals would help achieve those goals.


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## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

Thanks you for taking the time to answer questions from owners and enthusiasts. I'm a proud long time Audi owner and I have a couple of questions:

1. Would AoA reconsider S4 Avant for US market during the B8 mid-cycle update? What about next generation? *What kind of sales volume will AoA needs to see to justify bring the model back? * Consider this a personal request as I have a B7 S4 right now and would like a new Avant 

2. The new A3 sedan looks great in concept form. Would AoA bring back the sportback model? This is not Sophie's Choice... can we have both please?

3. Please comment or clarify AoA's plan for eTron in the US. I'm not referring to the R8 based sports car but the eTron version of mainstream models (e.g. A3 eTron etc). Is this something that will come to fruition in 2~3 years time or are we talking about longer time horizon?

4. There were lots of discussion about Q5 hybrid about 2 years ago but then it looks like AoA made a U-turn and got back on push for Q5 TDI in the US. What is the current AoA plan on hybrid (will it launch with A6?) and how does it fit in with AoA's renewed TDI push?

5. VW Group has returned to manufacturing in the US. There are some rumors that Audi will do so too. Can you comment on this (if you can) and what models you think may be candidate for manufacturing in the US? Would AoA consider US-specific or US-centric models down the line?


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## veedubmac (Sep 24, 2007)

Hello Mr. De Nysschen-

Thank you for your time and contribution to Fourtitude.

1. Will AoA start offering more Audi Exclusive options on vehicles other than the A8/R8? Different leather colors and trims, wood steering wheels, Alcantara headliners and extended leather packages would certainly be appreciated by Audi owners. Also, even if there is a small take rate, it this is something that will make Audi more unique than the competition.

2. Will AoA consider more options or special oder options on your vehicles? Things like lane assist, SPORT SEATS, ventilated seats, Audi Adaptive Air Suspension (on A6), power trunk (A6) Electric folding mirrors on lower models, etc. I have read that AoA stopped offering Lane Assist because it didn't work properly with US roads, however I know many A8 and Q7 owners who see no problems what so ever with their systems. In our 2008 Q7, the system has been used frequently. One reason we don't like the newer Q7s is that this option was taken away.

Thank you again!


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## tanel (Jul 26, 2006)

Hello,

I am actually not sure you are able to answer all my questions since they are more concerned about the European line-up than American, but I'll still post my questions, because this is the first time there is a chance to ask questions from such high official of Audi.

1. First I would like to ask about the considerations behind decisions of expelling certain model combinations. Why doesn't Audi offer new A6 with 4-cylinder diesel, quattro and automatic? I find it VERY controversial and disappointing that to buy such car you have to address to the competition, that has been claiming forever that RWD is superior to anything. E.g Merc is offering 2.2 litre diesel E-class with 4Matic and BMW is offering 2 litre diesel 525d with xDrive and automatic gearbox. The same applies to the A4 class, where Audi has never offered 4 cylinder diesel with quattro and automatic, but BMW and Merc offer that. The same also applies to the 4 cylinder petrol models in executive class. BMW offers 2 litre 245hp 5 series with xdrive, but Audi offers quattro with only 3 litre models - why?
2. Is Audi developing also a 4 cylinder bi-turbo diesel?
3. When will the 313hp 3 litre biturbo diesel engine be launched and on which models will it be available on? Any chance that A4 or A5 get the option of that engine?
4. How much does Audi learn from the products of other car companies? E.g is Audi considering the use or development of a four wheel drive system similar to the one used in Ferrari FF or suspension system similar to new McLaren.
5. Why does Audi launch its quasi top of the range models with a delay whereas the competitors disclose their ones right after the model launch. I am meaning here that e.g E500 and BMW 550 were launched along with other models, but S6 is following A6 with a delay? In my opinion the lack of variety of models may dispel some clients, because it is more difficult find a suitable offering. Again, Merc is offering 14 models of E-class and BMW is offering 16 variations of 5-series (M5 included), whereas in Northern Europe Audi only has 10 models of A6 in the list.
6. Why hasn't Audi produced a competitor to the 6-series or CL class? I doubt they are hard to justify business wise, because as far as the car industrialists have explained to me, the profits from the high end models are higher. The harder it is to understand any rumors about the development of rather unattractive models like Q1 or A1 sportback or A3 allroad and the likes. Looking from where I am standing I was even kindof disappointed when Q3 was launched, not because it's a bad car or anything, but because I thought about the time that could have been used to develop something much more appealing. I know these models are destined to "young" people, but are there any polls made about the preferences of people in late 20s or so? I am asking because I don't know a single young person who would like to drive an expensive, impractical quasi SUV that is more sporty in press release than in reality (not considering 2.5T Q3 which is actually the biggest mystery of all at this time). A1 is greatly accepted within young people though!
7. Why didn't the A6 or A7 get the fly-by-wire gear lever that feels much more modern and convenient to use than the conventional one? Any chance that A6 and A7 will get that technology in near future?
8. What is the feedback inside the company to the public disappointment in the exterior design of new A8 (let's be honest - it is boring) and rear of A7 (it really looks like a cat taking a dump or Pobeda from the Soviet empire)? If there is any feedback at all of course 
9. Is the RS4 sedan dismissed? Will there be any product improvements to the RS5 as the answer to C-class coupe Black series or these revised versions of M3, GTS or whatever they are called.
10. Is the replacement to Q7 in the works? If yes, when will it arrive?

I apologise if some of the questions seem a bit offensive, but there have been Audis in my family for 25 years, they have been indispensable in Nordic country and always the leaders of offering perfectly good four wheel drive with good engines. I have always found Audis to look great too, with some exeptions like last two generations of A6s, but the RS models' improvements have made even these cars look superb. The more so grows my anxiety when I feel the arguments for Audi are fading, because the design of two top models is questionable and in many cases the engine and drivetrain choices are actually better at the competitors? 

I really appreciate your time for the interview to Fourtitude and wish the best of luck to Audi in becoming the best carmaker in the world.

Thank you.


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## Audi Tony (Jul 27, 2011)

Hello from sunny Texas, and welcome. I have a very good friend (and Audi nut) from Johannesburg, and he speaks very highly of you.

BTW, I have an independent Audi/VW repair shop, that will become important for the second question.

I have two main questions for you.

The first is, why is there no TDI option in the sedans for the US? I believe Audi is missing a huge opportunity in this, where the combination of word of mouth and advertising economy figures would sell quite a # of these cars. I'm from Montana, and spent my first 10 driving years there. Quattro is mandatory, why not offer an A4, A5, or A6 with TDI and Quattro. And, why no A3 TDI with Quattro? For that matter, why not offer a sports sedan with TDI, maybe an A4 with the 3.0 TDI V6 tweaked for a little more power, but with the S4 suspension/brakes/interior. As Audi has been a dominating factor with the TDI in motorsports, clearly the power and speed diesel is capable of is not in question. But, more advertising in America about the success of diesel in racing would help a lot as well.

The second is, this: What is being done to improve the customer relationships at the dealerships? I feel this is even more important than any future product development. One case in point, I have a customer with an A5 Quattro 6-speed manual. This car started developing issues shortly after he bought it, as the second owner. He has had it completely stop moving, the clutch went out, etc. Several times the car has been towed to a repair shop. It has about 45k on it. Audi has not assisted him in any way, insisting that there is nothing wrong with the car. He had to pay for the clutch himself. There are many more details, but that covers the basics. Audi has upset him to the point he will probably not buy another. And, it has nothing to do with the design/function of the car. It is due to the fact of the dealership experiences. If you are in doubt of this, please hire some outside sources to "impersonate" customers with cars that are having issues, and investigate what the outcomes are. Most of my customers have been less than satisfied with the treatment they recieve. And, this is not limited to just this area, either.


Thanks in advance for your time, it shows the great care that you have for the brand, as well as the future of Audi,

Tony


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## ArcticA3 (Aug 5, 2006)

Mr de Nysschen, 

I am a big Audi fan owing both an A4 Avant and A3. Since this discussion is about Audi Performance, can you please discuss why you do not import the Audi S3, RS3 or the S4 Avant in the USA? I am looking to replace my Avant in the next year and performance is on my mind. 

Thanks for taking the time for my question. 

Chris in Seattle.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

Hello Mr. De Nysschen,

I have actually met you twice in the past (don't expect you to remember) when you visited Audi North Scottsdale, the dealership i have worked for 7+ years in the sales department. I come from a huge enthusiast background and fuse that into my selling, and by doing so I think I make new Audi owners more than just drivers, but true enthusiasts of the car and brand.

In my 8 total years with Audi, the customer awareness is increasing by leaps and bounds and i think that you are a huge reason for that with the your desire and the team you have put around you. THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!

*My question is this: From a sales standpoint we are seeing record numbers but are extremely low on inventory and have been for months now. Do you see our future pipeline of cars increasing, or a trend to get dealerships to order cars for customers from scratch much like they do in Europe?*

Thank you so much for what you do. I am honored to have worked for this brand in two different states for a little more than 8 years and have seen it progress as it has here in the USA.


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

1. Are you looking for any mechanical engineers? :thumbup: I'd LOVE to work for Audi.:heart:


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## soldierwolf74 (Jul 28, 2011)

*Suggestion on North American Plant Location*

Hello Mr. De Nysschen,

I have heard the talk and the rumors about the North American Audi plant location. I would like to share my thoughts without sounding like a dry sale pitch. I can say the community in which I now call home has many attributes that may be of interest to Audi in consideration of selecting a location for North American auto plant. Pueblo, Colorado has a long history of production and has all the necessary resources an auto plant would need to produce automobiles. In addition, there are many incentives that the state of Colorado and the local community is offering industry to build here which could aid in the process of opening a North American operation. Lastly, Audi already has a historic tie to Pikes Peak and the region as a whole which could be considered a plus in considering a location. I am a proud Audi owner and a customer for life it is an honor to given this opportunity to offer suggestions and comments.

http://www.pueblochamber.org/economic-development 

http://www.pedco.org/

Thank You,
Jeff


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## Suizo (Jul 28, 2011)

*RS5 US Delivery Date & Local Dealer Inventory*

Hello and thank you for your time here today,

My first question:

1.) *When will the RS5 hit U.S. dealers? *

Even if you could hint at which quarter, that would be a huge help. I am extremely excited and have been on the waiting list for over a year.

2.) What is the issue with dealerships in Texas and low inventory? I think it's embarrassing to us (Audi and Audi Fans.) I have personally sold at least 4 Audi's for you guys as a referral/evangelist, but when I drive past the dealer i see they have IN THE FRONT ROW: Ford Mustang, BMW 3Series, Toyota 4Runner, etc. This seems like marketing 101.

Thanks for doing this! 

Suizo


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## drew138 (Dec 3, 2006)

*RS3 Please.*

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to some of these questions.

The launch of the RS3 in Europe appears to be a huge success, received extremely wide press coverage, and further stabilized / reinforced the strong quattro performance heritage that is so fundamental to the brand. The Audi brand here in the USA is obviously very strong and has attracted many new customers, but there does appear to be a disconnect for many of these new customers from having that brand connection with the traditions / heritage that cars such as the quattro coupe helped to forge with your long standing customers / supporters. 

How does AoA plan to convert these new customers into a new generation of loyal / connected enthusiasts? And do you think bringing over more niche cards such as the RS3 can play a part in helping to create that connection?

Drew

PS: Please bring over the RS3.


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## TROPIC1.8T (Aug 7, 2003)

Mr de Nysschen,

Would like to know your thoughts on the relationship between STASIS engeneering and Audi. We have never heard an offical announcement from Audi regarding this relationship pertaining specificaly to Dealerhip sales and manufacturer warranty.
Is is safe to say that my new supercharged S4 would be safe from warranty void due to the aftermarket Stasis software? Also that my ownership experence with my facing dealer will remain unchanged due to them not being a Stasis dealer .

thank you for your time.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

We'll be beginning shortly. We'll be doing as much as possible within the time Johan has. Thank-you for all of the great questions guys.


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## Suizo (Jul 28, 2011)

*Scaling the Service Experience with the Growth*

Mr. de Nysschen,

I love that Audi is getting more market share, as the growth is hard earned and well deserved. I have had the pleasure of serving on the executive team of a technology startup that differentiated on service, had an IPO on the NYSE, and continue to grow and is now one of the top companies in our space globally--all because of our focus on service. 

The hardest thing we encountered along the way was scaling the service experience as we grew from 1,000's of customers to 100,000's. 

Locally, our Audi dealer is top notch, where the local (more popular) BMW dealer has a waiting room full of customers complaining to each other about the lack of communication, length of the wait, and (get this) lack of WiFi in the waiting area. (Sometimes it's the simple stuff) It is imperative that as market share grows, the dealer/service side is able to accommodate with what is expected for this luxury brand. The right mix of technology and people is likely the sweet spot. We all want to feel that relationship with our service adviser and not feel as though we are a "number", but also, you can't have 20 advisers in an average size dealership as the costs will be too high. 

As a huge fan of Net Promoter (The Ultimate Question: Would you recommend Audi to a friend or colleague) the service experience will really impact the referral and brand growth. Less if NetPromoter is low, more if it is high.

What plans do you have in place to ensure that the Audi service experience can meet the demand of your bolstering marketing and sales efforts?

Thank you!

Suizo


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## idiotsAVANT (Aug 18, 2004)

Mr. de Nysschen,

Thank-you for making time for us. I was wondering if you might be able to talk a bit about Audi's racing plans for the USA. There was talk that you might race the R15s in the ALMS this year. Any chance we'll see some Audi prototypes in the ALMS next year, and beyond that perhaps Audis in the Rolex version of the DTM in 2013? Might there be any potential for privateers in DTM like Kolles in Germany or maybe privateer opportunities with the R8 LMS GT3 car or the TT RS GT4 car that ran at Nurburgring?


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## stubek (Jul 28, 2011)

Mr. de Nysschen,
In the future, will the A4 Avant or the Q3 be available in the US with any of the European TDI engines AND quatro?
Thank you


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

*RS3*

Can we please get the RS3 in the USA?


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

*Hello*

Hello everyone. Thank you for taking the time to post your questions and your interest in the Audi brand. I will try as best I can to answer as many questions as openly as possible. If you have follow-up questions, please do not hesitate to send them. Look forward to the discussion. 

Johan


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## iamaudi (Apr 30, 2008)

*Audi + Social*

Johan, first thank you for taking the time to do this, these questions revolve around social media.

1) How is Audi scaling its online social strategy with Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare ect, how is the Audi Social Media team reacting to our ever-growing social presence?

2) Knowing Audi is an aspirational Brand and many of our nearly 4,000,000 Facebook and 56,000 Twitter followers do not own the product; how is Audi rewarding these faithful "social" advocates for supporting the Brand?

Thank you Johan in advance, we greatly appreciate your time.

Scott


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

BPBR8 said:


> I now have 160,000 miles on my custom 2003 S6 Avant so will want to replace it in the next year or two as I approach the 200,000 mi mark. I now have nearly 600,000 total miles on this and my previous Audis. Also happen to have a beautiful custom R8. I have a real need for an avant's carrying capacity & am not a candidate for a Q model. Can you offer me any hope that you will not abandon me or my end of the market and will offer a new version of the S6 Avant, or at least an A6 Avant with S suspension?


BPBR8: I know there are many Avant enthusiasts amongst the Audi customer base. The Avant body design is an important part of the Audi DNA and represent almost 50% of Audi vehicles sold in Europe. Unfortunately American consumers do not seem to have as much enthusiasm for the so-called wagon configuration. This brings us into a dilemma when we want to bring an Avant model into the US market. There are very significant homologation differences betweent the US and Europe and these translate into substantial development costs in order to bring cars into compliance. When we then consider the modest volume potential for cars of this configuration, the unfortunate conclusion is that it is simply not economically feasible. 

So I regret there will be no S6 Avant for the foreseeable future. Perhaps the forthcoming S7 might be an attractive alternative.


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## thewalkingmansfriend (Jul 27, 2011)

*my de nysschen*

thanks for the chance to ask the following

as dealers expand and build new facilities what can audi do promote green constuction of the facilities?

and has audi sought to design buildings that incorperate green technologies?


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

A4Jetta said:


> Audi is, first and foremost, an engineering and design-driven company. Their committment of selling prettiest sportswagons and mini-wagon like A4/A6 Avant and A3 Sportback, as a perfect combination of minalist styling, performance, dynamic abilities with practicality have always been their forefront in the industry. Is Audi USA still committed on selling A4/A6 Avant and A3 Sportback in near future, even if their Q5 sold like hotcakes? While I can understand there are appealing factors for CUV, there are those of us traditionalist prefer the most rational choice in the marketplace. That segment is called station wagon, and Audi has aplenty of knowledge for building great ones.
> 
> Audi has been very successful with their performance S, RS and R8. Will they further committed by bringing us the next RS 3, RS 4 and RS6/RS 7 to our shore. I really hope to see the return of the Coupe Quattro as well as the rumored R4 or R5.
> 
> As an engineering and technological-driven carmaker. Would Audi empahsize more on diesel powertrains over hybrid, although latter attract more greenies in California, in upcoming product portfolio?


 Regarding Avant models and also the A3 Sportback, please see my comments above...

We could expect to see in the future a full line of S Models for every one of our car lines. As far as RS models are concerned, we are very dependent on the development of quattro GmbH. It is not a given that RS model is always developed. For the US, we launched the TT RS and the RS 5 will follow next year. We are finalizing our proposal for an RS 7, but this car has not yet been officially decided upon. 

Addressing the quattro Concept, this car has generated much enthusiasm and positive response from all who have seen it. Certainly, there are many friends for the idea inside Audi, but we have such a full pipeline of new product for the future, that we have to consider that our engineering resources are not infinite and sometime exciting projects such as this as well as the R4 or R5 have to take back seat.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

Johan de Nysschen said:


> Regarding Avant models and also the A3 Sportback, please see my comments above...
> 
> We could expect to see in the future a full line of S Models for every one of our car lines. As far as RS models are concerned, we are very dependent on the development of quattro GmbH. It is not a given that RS model is always developed. For the US, we launched the TT RS and the RS 5 will follow next year. We are finalizing our proposal for an RS7, but this car has not yet been officially decided upon.
> 
> Addressing the concept Coupe quattro has generated much enthusiasm and positive response from all who have seen it. Certainly, there are many friends for the idea inside Audi, but we have such a full pipeline of new product for the future, that we have to consider that our engineering resources are not infinite and sometime exciting projects such as this as well as the R4 or R5 have to take back seat.


 Audi will continue to promote TDI clean diesel very strongly, but we will also expand our alternative powertrain offerings to include hybrids as well as full electric vehicles into the future.


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## ATierney (Jul 28, 2011)

*Audi A1 to US suggestion.*

This is a suggestion about your Audi A1 line, you guys really need to market the A1 in the states, so many people are wanting to buy a nice compact car that is good on gas but all the options here are horrible, they are unattractive and have no power or sport to them, The A1 could really take off here in the States, I already know many friends that commented on my pictures from Europe who want to buy one extremely bad. It also fits most peoples budgets because it is priced to compete with others. This car has alot of potential here in the states and I too hope to see this amazing car out on the roads. 
(Also the Battery Powered car market is EXPLODING, get this car here with battery's and you'll see a huge response for such a beautiful car)

Also, many people are wanting to see some Audi Sport events here in the states, I know I went to Inglosdat and saw the Le Mans Championship race around, We need fun Audi events here in the states like that! I hope to see some Audi Sport events popping up or other fun Audi related events.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

Golden0009 said:


> Hello Johan de Nysschen. I wanted to thank you in advance for taking time to connect with this enthusiast audience. I feel that spending a few moments with this group is a valuable use of your time as many of us have been Audi brand ambassadors for a long time.
> 
> *I have questions about the product gaps that we have in North America* (i.e. Audi A1, A3 two door, A3 Cabrio, S3, RS3, A4 Allroad, S4 Avant, A5 Sportback, S5 Sportback, A6 Avant, A6 Allroad, Q3, etc).
> 
> *I understand that a lot of these are so called "enthusiast or niche products" and that the cost of certifying each new model is significant, but how is a tiny market such as Australia able to offer a full product line?* I am mostly curious since North America is one of the few markets Audi lags significantly behind Mercedes and BMW. Are there any significant product launches coming for North America that you anticipate will close this gap? Thank you.


Please see the above post on Avants. The same holds true for many smaller volume opportunity derivatives. 

As for why Australia can sell more models offered in Europe, it is because the vehicles sold there are more in line with European homologation requirements, while the US has many unique homologation regulations.


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## stubek (Jul 28, 2011)

Johan de Nysschen said:


> BPBR8: I know there are many Avant enthusiast amongst the Audi customer base. The Avant body design is an important part of Audi DNA and represent almost 50% of Audi vehicles sold in Europe. Unfortunately American consumers do not seem to have as much enthusiasm for the so-called wagon configuration. This brings us into a dilemma when we want to bring Avant model into the US market. There are very significant homologation differences betweent the US and Europe that translate into substantial development costs to bring cars into compliance. When we then consider the modest volume potential for cars of this configuration, the unfortunate conclusion is that it is simply not economically feasible.
> 
> So I regret no S6 Avant for the foreseeable future. Perhaps the forthcoming S7 might be an attractive alternative.


Will Audi at least keep an A4 Avant coming to the US? And an A6?


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

silverstroke said:


> Mr de Nysschen,
> 
> Thank you for taking your time and stopping by at the Fourtitude, to answer to Audi enthusiasts’ questions.
> 
> ...


The reason we haven't brought the A5 Sportback to the US market is that the US standards require more rear seat headroom for occupants which would require a completely new roofline and would obviously ruin the look of the A5 Sportback. Instead, we decided to consolidate our product offering around the A7.


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## dsseven (Jul 28, 2011)

With Ultra light weight tecnology being utilized in in both prototypes,and the R8 GT models,how long before the the RS line gets a similar treatment? (i.e. carbon fiber roofline,and hood)


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

silverstroke said:


> Mr de Nysschen,
> 
> Thank you for taking your time and stopping by at the Fourtitude, to answer to Audi enthusiasts’ questions.
> 
> ...


We will significantly expand our TDI clean diesel offering to also include the Q5, A6 & A8... and eventually also the next generation A4. 

Regarding transmission... enthusiasts like you and I prefer manual transmissions, but unfortunately we constitute the minority. Most people that spend more then $50k for a car prefer an automatic.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

Cobalt Rain said:


> Mr. de Nysschen,
> 
> Thank you again for taking the time to answer our questions.
> 
> ...


1. No, we do not have month for next generation A3 availability, but I can confirm it will be introduced as a MY 13 vehicle. 
2. The A3 will only be available as a sedan and possibly as a convertible but no Sportback. The cabriolet is developed off of the A3 sedan as a base, whereas the Sportback has many unique body parts. We can apply the development work for US homologation of the sedan to the cabriolet.
3. The Q3 is still under consideration for the US and no final decision has been made.
4. I'd prefer to not get into specifics.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

audiuser84 said:


> Hello Mr. DE NYSSCHEN,
> 
> I have been an avid audi enthusiast for quite some time now and just have a few question to ask. I notice that in Europe that Audi has started to introduce many RS branded cars like the rs3, ttrs, and rs5 at a much shorter interval than before. Is this going to be a new trend for Audi? And will the NA market be able to get these cars as quickly as Europe or will the RS cars only come to NA when a cars lifecycle is about to end?
> In addition, has Audi been keeping a close eye on other performance divisions such as M and AMG and how those two manufacturers are spawning special variants of their performance cars such as the black series and gts/csl. If so, does Audi have plans to produce something that is similar to their offerings?
> ...


In the future we can expect that RS models will be introduced to the US with the normal delay that also applies to the regular derivatives. We have delayed the introduction of the RS 5 for marketing reasons. The RS 5 will receive a mid life cycle product refresh in Europe early next year and we did not want to introduce the RS 5 to the US market only to change the design a few months later. The TT RS is now available in the market.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

tiptronic said:


> Mr De Nysschen
> 
> Thank you for taking the time.
> 
> ...


I regret to learn that you have not had a stellar ownership experience. I don't know what design flaws you refer to, but generally speaking design is considered to be an area of leadership for Audi. We continue to make progress on JD Power CSI surveys and are working hard together with our dealers to further improve in the area. 

The decision to produce vehicles in North America has nothing to do with trying to create or produce cheaper products... as we increase the number of Audi vehicles sold in this market, so our company's exposure to exchange rate influences increases. Therefore it becomes strategically important to shelter our business from such uncontrollable variables by producing vehicles in a dollar denominated financial zone. 

Please see previous posts....


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

lefkonj said:


> I have a very simply question regarding the Q7. Why no rear seat entertainment system in the US? There is one in Europe, its sister the Cayenne has one, and the A8 has one. Vehicles from mini-vans to min-SUVs to full fledged SUVs offer one and its expected on a 50k or greater SUV.
> 
> I was looking at a Q7 and one of the things that turned me off was the crazy lack of this option, not to mention the unbelievably arrogant sales person who made me feel like crap because I was negotiating price.


The reason we do not have a rear seat entertainment system installed at the factory is that we utilize an active headrest design which will move forward against the back of the head in the event of an accident. The weight of an integrated TV monitor will adversely affect the performance of the headrest. We do offer an aftermarket accessory where the screen is attached to the backrest. You can ask your arrogant salesman why he doesn't know this and mention to him that I have a dim view of his attitude.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

Would you consider going on Top Gear USA and competing in their "Star In A Reasonably Priced Car" contest around their track?


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## Cort (Aug 18, 2004)

Diesel engines?

Why on god's green earth do we not have more diesel engines stateside that Audi sells in Europe?


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

youry said:


> I'll be direct to spare you some of your valuable time.
> 
> 1) When will the RS5 be availble in NA
> 2) Will it be also facelifted as we just have seen for the A5/S5 ?
> ...


1. 2nd half of next year
2. yes
3. the RS 5 appearance is tied to the life cycle of the A5/S5


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## arena (Apr 4, 2009)

Mr de Nysschen,;

Thank you for taking your time to answer questions on fourtitude!

I was wondering what the future holds for Audi Motorsport? Is there going to be support from the factory to continue pursuing Le Mans even after Porsche enters a prototype in 2014?

Also, is there any chance Audi will support a team that races in the US GT series like ALMS or Grand Am?

I guess what I'm asking is; does Audi see a return on the massive investment they have been making in motorsports over the past decade and a half, and will they maintain this strategy moving forward?

-Jonathan


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

IgorRGTI said:


> I'd like to ask about Audi's financial plans in regards to leases.
> 
> Back a couple of years ago, there were some VERY favorable leases on several different Audi models, particularly A4s, which was due to significantly higher residuals than currently available.
> 
> ...


Inflated residuals are achieved only through incentive support from the manufacturer. Real market residuals represent the true test of value retention. The bigger the incentives on new vehicles the more residual values in the long run are undermined. There are no gains from excessive discounting in the long run. Audi products have very compelling product substance, are very competitively priced and therefore represent good value which does not need to be discounted. You will benefit from this reality when the day arrives when you want to sell your used Audi. If leases are artificially reduced by inflated residuals, it only means that you have to pay a higher price which may even be above the market the price should you choose to purchase your car for the contract value upon maturity of the lease.


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## WOB Goblin (Dec 17, 2007)

Hi Johan,

Thanks for your time and information. It's great to hear.

As an enthusiast, I'm really looking forward to the new A3 sedan. What are the chances we will see an S3 sedan with an inline 5 cyl. turbo? Really good I hope!


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## PDong (Oct 26, 2004)

Thanks for taking the time to respond to our questions.

I have been following along for the last hour, but I have to go, and I haven't been able to come up with a productive idea except to ask you keep bringing Audis with quattro and a manual gearbox. My '10 A4 is by far the best car I've ever owned for these reasons.

Can you let us in on an exciting product in development for the US market that we're maybe unaware of yet? For example:

A1, RS3, R4/5 coming to the states, 3.0TDi in the A3/4, etc?


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## WOB Goblin (Dec 17, 2007)

I agree also that a used car market saturated with base model Audi lease returns is a bad idea. It only weakens our resale values. Leave that for BMW. :thumbup:


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

bzcat said:


> Thanks you for taking the time to answer questions from owners and enthusiasts. I'm a proud long time Audi owner and I have a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Would AoA reconsider S4 Avant for US market during the B8 mid-cycle update? What about next generation? *What kind of sales volume will AoA needs to see to justify bring the model back? * Consider this a personal request as I have a B7 S4 right now and would like a new Avant
> 
> ...


1. Our analysis would indicate that the available volume opportunity for high performance wagons is very limited. For example, look at the sales results of the Cadillac CTS V Wagon. It's not only a matter of the break-even cost of developing such a model for the US, but we also have to consider the priority in ranking various projects. We have finite engineering resources and we choose the most viable projects first. 
2. see above A3 Sportback response please...
3. The R8 e-tron will be our first commercially available electric vehicle, but we can anticipate of course many more electrically powered derivatives in the future. Timeframe is longer than 2-3 years for more mainstream models.
4. We will offer the Q5 hybrid in the US next year. It will be complementary to our TDI clean diesel strategy. 
5. Audi will not manufacture a US specific model. We are a global brand and our products are the same in all markets. We will consider US manufacturing when US sales volume justify this. I cannot be specific on which models may be produced at this time.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

veedubmac said:


> Hello Mr. De Nysschen-
> 
> Thank you for your time and contribution to Fourtitude.
> 
> ...


1. I agree with you! I too would like to see Audi Exclusive on a wider range of models. Our product planners are examining the introduction of such an offer for our S models and for the A7 and A6 models as well.

2. We discontinued Lane Assist due to low demand. However, you will see an Active Lane Assist system coming in the near future. We need to balance our desire to offer a wide range of options with the very practical need for reducing product complexity. Remember we have long supply lines to the US and the majority of US customers do not like to preorder their cars, but to buy them straight from the showroom floor. That is why we have three trim levels in Premium, Premium Plus and Prestige which can be augmented with a series of option packages. This reduces complexity and increases the probability that the dealer will have the right vehicle in inventory at any given time. 

Thank you for sending in your questions.


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## Green Hare (Oct 21, 2003)

Johan de Nysschen said:


> We will significantly expand our TDI clean diesel offering to also include the Q5, A6 & A8... and eventually also the next generation A4.
> 
> Regarding transmission... enthusiasts like you and I perfer manual transmissions, but unfortunately we constitute the minority. Most people that spend more then $50k for a car prefer an automatic.


Mr. de Nysschen,

Would Audi look into at least offering consumers the option to order their vehicles with a manual transmission, especially where this is already offered in other nations? 

Also, I would like to second an earlier comment about the A1 coming to the US. This vehicle, especially in TDI guise with a manual, could make a very attractive alternative to people seeking luxury and economy in one package. Can you comment on any plans surrounding this fine vehicle?

Regards,
Wil


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

tanel said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am actually not sure you are able to answer all my questions since they are more concerned about the European line-up than American, but I'll still post my questions, because this is the first time there is a chance to ask questions from such high official of Audi.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to post your questions, but I'd like to take the time to answer questions for our US customers.


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## chaldowhiteboy (Jun 14, 2010)

Hello Mr. Johan De Nysschen,

First and foremost, it is a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak with you. I am very much inspired by Audi's designs and as a Transportation Design major, my dream would be to work for Audi's design team in the future. Do you have any suggestions on how to potentially obtain a position within Audi?


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## stubek (Jul 28, 2011)

Mr. de Nysschen,

Do you or anyone from AoA read this and other forums such as Audizine or Audiworld to see what owners and enthusiasts are saying or doing and use that for future plans? For example, there are some modifications that a larger number of forum members due either because it is offered in the rest of the world or not offered at all, but they find valuable. Would you use these forums as a tool to add future features?


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## asmir03 (Jul 28, 2011)

Hello and thank you for your time, 

I would like to start of by saying that I absolutely love Audi's they are my favorite cars. I recently bought a 2008 Audi A6 S-line loved the car but only to come to issues with the car and the dealer can't seem to fix it. I want trade it for another Audi but can't seem to get deal do fact that they want more money out me. I been back and forth about 10 times and the dealer is 1 hour from me. My question is there should be at least something that as an Audi owner that could be done so they customer aka Audi Owner's stays satisfied. I don't think the customer should be blamed because they dealer can't seem to fix the issue. Let me know what you think? I appreciated you time Thank you so much.


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

This is likely a once in a lifetime opportunity. It's been a pleasure to get such high-level insight to the inner workings of my favorite brand. We all really appreciate your willingness to speak one-on-one with the enthusiast market. It definitely shows up in future models when you take the time to listen to the consumer.

One of the biggest selling points of the overall design of my A3 was that you've incorporated a black roof. Go to any VW/Audi show and you're guaranteed to see several cars which have been resprayed with a black roof. To have that as a factory option is so appealing to me.

Keep up the outstanding work. I, for one, love the direction that the brand is headed.


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## tigerlight (Jul 28, 2011)

Hello Mr. Johan De Nysschen,

When will the face lifted A5 be available is the United States? Around Feb/March 2012 or closer to June/July 2012?


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## tigerlight (Jul 28, 2011)

Also will the new A5 have a 272hp 3.0t option in the U.S. as an in between the 2.0t and the S5?


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

Audi Tony said:


> Hello from sunny Texas, and welcome. I have a very good friend (and Audi nut) from Johannesburg, and he speaks very highly of you.
> 
> BTW, I have an independent Audi/VW repair shop, that will become important for the second question.
> 
> ...


You will be pleased to know that we will expand our diesel offering to include some sedan models. You can expect to see the A8 and a bit later the A6 and the next generation A3 sedan with TDI clean diesel in addition to the Q5 and Q7. 

To meet US emission regulations, we specially developed the engine used in the current A3 and we are able to comply with the regulations without the need for expensive exhaust treatment measures such as Adblue urea injection as used in the Q7. If we were to introduce quattro to the A3 TDI, the additional weight of the quattro drive system in conjunction with a full passenger complement and loaded luggage compartment, then under certain operating conditions such as full throttle acceleration on an incline it cannot be guaranteed that the A3 TDI would meet emission requirements without resorting to the urea injection system. If we were to add the urea injection system, we would need to modify the floor pan of the car to accomodate the exhaust system and the urea tank, which in turn would mean new crash tests and new development to comply with homologation. At this late stage of the life cycle it wouldn't be feasible. 

Our research suggests that an A4 with the V6 TDI engine would have limited sales potential due to the high price that will result from this combination. We will look at the next generation A4 for a 2.0 Liter TDI version.

Audi of America has embarked on a far reaching customer care initiative called "Kundenbegeisterung" and we have already immersed more than 2,000 dealer employees in this program which involves training both here in the US and at our headquarters in Germany. We are focusing on internal processes and policies as well as employee attitudes. And while it takes a long time to change people's attitudes, I am confident that we will significantly move the needle in a relatively short space of time. Our dealer owners have assured me of their personal commitment to Kundenbegeisterung and we have now attached very substantial financial incentives to good customer service performance by our dealers.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

ArcticA3 said:


> Mr de Nysschen,
> 
> I am a big Audi fan owing both an A4 Avant and A3. Since this discussion is about Audi Performance, can you please discuss why you do not import the Audi S3, RS3 or the S4 Avant in the USA? I am looking to replace my Avant in the next year and performance is on my mind.
> 
> ...


The S3 and RS 3 are not offered in this market for homologation reasons. Thanks Chris.


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## arena (Apr 4, 2009)

Mr de Nysschen,

1) Does Audi plan to make a more sporty (...more performance oriented) replacement for the TT, such as the R4 rumours suggest? Will it be mid-engined?

2) Will the upcoming RS5 for US Market have the twin-turbo V8 so we can finally show the BMW M3 who's boss? 

Thanks again,

Jonathan


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

ProjectA3 said:


> Hello Mr. De Nysschen,
> 
> I have actually met you twice in the past (don't expect you to remember) when you visited Audi North Scottsdale, the dealership i have worked for 7+ years in the sales department. I come from a huge enthusiast background and fuse that into my selling, and by doing so I think I make new Audi owners more than just drivers, but true enthusiasts of the car and brand.
> 
> ...


We are producing more Audi vehicles and supplying more product to dealers than ever before in our history. I am aware that despite this fact inventory remains well below ideal levels and I have no doubt that it is frustrating to see many sales opportunities remain unexploited... the reality is that demand exceeds supply and if one must have a problem, this is a better one to have than the other way around. We have already seen a significant increase in the number of customers who pre-order their vehicles and I would advocate that you contact customers with forthcoming lease maturities several months in advance and take them through the special experience of custom ordering an Audi. It builds great loyalty and customer enthusiasm while removing much of the pain associated with long waiting lists, because customers know in advance that their cars are custom made and this requires some time. Good selling!


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

Rob Cote said:


> 1. Are you looking for any mechanical engineers? :thumbup: I'd LOVE to work for Audi.:heart:


Thank you for your interest in Audi. I suggest you look at our website and send your resume to our Human Resource department.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

soldierwolf74 said:


> Hello Mr. De Nysschen,
> 
> I have heard the talk and the rumors about the North American Audi plant location. I would like to share my thoughts without sounding like a dry sale pitch. I can say the community in which I now call home has many attributes that may be of interest to Audi in consideration of selecting a location for North American auto plant. Pueblo, Colorado has a long history of production and has all the necessary resources an auto plant would need to produce automobiles. In addition, there are many incentives that the state of Colorado and the local community is offering industry to build here which could aid in the process of opening a North American operation. Lastly, Audi already has a historic tie to Pikes Peak and the region as a whole which could be considered a plus in considering a location. I am a proud Audi owner and a customer for life it is an honor to given this opportunity to offer suggestions and comments.
> 
> ...


Thank you for bringing the merits of Pueblo Colorado as possible location for an Audi manufacturing facility to my attention. It's probably somewhat premature to look at specific locations at this time, but I will pass on your observations to my colleagues in Germany.


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## OLD GHOST (Mar 7, 2003)

*Chevy Cruze Diesel*

With Chevy announcing the Cruze Diesel in 2013, what does this say for the future of diesel as a whole and the TDI effort now that Audi/VW have been embracing it for years.

Thank you for your time today!


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

Suizo said:


> Hello and thank you for your time here today,
> 
> My first question:
> 
> ...


1. RS 5 second half of next year.

2. Low inventory is a challenge we face nationally, not just in Texas despite supplying more vehicles to the market than ever before. Demand continues to exceed supply. I suppose the other makes which grace the lots of our dealers must represent trade-ins from customers who have discovered the joy of Audi.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

drew138 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to some of these questions.
> 
> The launch of the RS3 in Europe appears to be a huge success, received extremely wide press coverage, and further stabilized / reinforced the strong quattro performance heritage that is so fundamental to the brand. The Audi brand here in the USA is obviously very strong and has attracted many new customers, but there does appear to be a disconnect for many of these new customers from having that brand connection with the traditions / heritage that cars such as the quattro coupe helped to forge with your long standing customers / supporters.
> 
> ...


Drew, we plan to bring many exciting RS models to the US in the future. The current generation RS 3 does not comply US homologation requirements and we may have to wait until the next generation to see such a car.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

TROPIC1.8T said:


> Mr de Nysschen,
> 
> Would like to know your thoughts on the relationship between STASIS engeneering and Audi. We have never heard an offical announcement from Audi regarding this relationship pertaining specificaly to Dealerhip sales and manufacturer warranty.
> Is is safe to say that my new supercharged S4 would be safe from warranty void due to the aftermarket Stasis software? Also that my ownership experence with my facing dealer will remain unchanged due to them not being a Stasis dealer .
> ...


I personally admire the enthusiasm and ingenuity of the Stasis team. To be clear, there is no connection between Audi and Stasis. Modified powertrain and suspension components void the Audi warranty. It is my understanding that Stasis offer a warranty of their own on such modified components. Those components which are not affected by the modification will continue to be covered by the Audi warranty. Stasis is not an authorized tuner of Audi vehicles. quattro GmbH, a wholly owned subsidiary of Audi AG, is the only producer of modified Audi vehicles which enjoy full factory warranty.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

Suizo said:


> Mr. de Nysschen,
> 
> I love that Audi is getting more market share, as the growth is hard earned and well deserved. I have had the pleasure of serving on the executive team of a technology startup that differentiated on service, had an IPO on the NYSE, and continue to grow and is now one of the top companies in our space globally--all because of our focus on service.
> 
> ...


Please see my comments on Kundenbegeisterung above.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

idiotsAVANT said:


> Mr. de Nysschen,
> 
> Thank-you for making time for us. I was wondering if you might be able to talk a bit about Audi's racing plans for the USA. There was talk that you might race the R15s in the ALMS this year. Any chance we'll see some Audi prototypes in the ALMS next year, and beyond that perhaps Audis in the Rolex version of the DTM in 2013? Might there be any potential for privateers in DTM like Kolles in Germany or maybe privateer opportunities with the R8 LMS GT3 car or the TT RS GT4 car that ran at Nurburgring?


Audi will participate at Petit Le Mans, but the ALMS series for next year does not have a provision for LMP1 for prototypes. We are in discussion about the possibility to introduce the R8 as a car for privateers with both the ALMS and GrandAm organizers. I would be interested to learn if Audi supporters would be interested to see a local equivelant of the European DTM Series as a fully fledged full season racing program on the US calendar? Post comments and they'll be forwarded to me.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

fjork_duf said:


> Can we please get the RS3 in the USA?


We too would like to the RS 3 in the US. Perhaps it can be part of the exciting A3 sedan range in the future.


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

iamaudi said:


> Johan, first thank you for taking the time to do this, these questions revolve around social media.
> 
> 1) How is Audi scaling its online social strategy with Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare ect, how is the Audi Social Media team reacting to our ever-growing social presence?
> 
> ...


Hi Scott, 
we recognize the evolving nature of social media presents ongoing challenges to marketers. We have a small team of very professional people who are working on this for Audi and in many respects Audi of America is seen as a benchmark for Audi worldwide when it comes to execution of our social media strategy. It certainly provides a very important avenue for direct engagement with existing and potential customer and I have no doubt that we will still need considerable innovation to keep up with the fast moving pace of the social media landscape. 

To the best of my knowledge, we reward the many Facebook and Twitter friends who are not yet Audi owners with a deep sense of gratitude and a warm feeling in our heart. As of yet, there is no tangible form of reward. 

One consolation... it is thanks to our many Facebook fans that were able to introduce the exciting 
TT RS to our market. Thank you for your support.


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## arena (Apr 4, 2009)

johan de nysschen said:


> audi will participate at petit le mans, but the alms series for next year does not have a provision for lmp1 for prototypes. We are in discussion about the possibility to introduce the r8 as a car for privateers with both the alms and grandam organizers. *i would be interested to learn if audi supporters would be interested to see a local equivelant of the european dtm series as a fully fledged full season racing program on the us calendar? Post comments and they'll be forwarded to me.*


I would love to see Audi have a larger presence in American motorsport. However, I don't know how I feel about DTM. Unfortunately, racing is so complex with all the individual series and hard to find rule and class structures, that it is virtually impossible to fully understand even for an enthusiast. I have been told that DTM has a good rule structure, but since it's so hard to find and there are so many other alternatives to watch, I have a hard time getting into it.

Ideally, a series that contained cars that are closely based on street cars would be incredible, but I understand enough to know how difficult that may be in reality. Since Grand Am has a close to production spec GT class, I would LOVE to see the R8 LMS go against the RX-8's, 911's and Vette's


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## Cort (Aug 18, 2004)

You've said "homoligation" three times now.

I've googled, wikipedia'ed, and looked in three dictionaries... But, have yet to find a definition.

What exactly does that mean?


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## Johan de Nysschen (Jul 5, 2011)

*Thank you!*

Thanks to all of you for your questions. I tried to answer as many I could and hope that you found my answers useful. Thank you also for your enthusiasm and support of the Audi brand, our products and our dealers. 

I am told that I should pick two posts for a small token of appreciation from Fourtitude... BPBR8 and silverstroke are my picks. 

Thanks. 

Johan


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## asmir03 (Jul 28, 2011)

Cort said:


> You've said "homoligation" three times now.
> 
> I've googled, wikipedia'ed, and looked in three dictionaries... But, have yet to find a definition.
> 
> What exactly does that mean?


http://www.auto-mandt.com/content-24-homologation.html


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## ATierney (Jul 28, 2011)

Because I know you're very busy, Is there any place at Audi where I can send some suggestions to? I have many suggestions that I think could really benefit Audi and the Public Reputation in the states.


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## [email protected] (Sep 19, 2002)

Mr. Nysschen thanks for answering our questions...

I have owned and loved my last three A4 Avants (B5, B6, B7,) every generation got better and better. I feel let down by Audi with the lack of availability of S4 Avant or a 6 Spd manual A4 Avant. With all the great success Audi is having in the US market why can't you give us a S4 Avant? or just offer a 6spd in the A4 Avant? Even do a order only car.. 

Please bring back Avants, Im one of many waiting patiently for Audi to make us happy again.

Thanks for your time.

Greg Connelly


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## [email protected] (Sep 19, 2002)

Johan de Nysschen said:


> We too would like to the RS3 in the US. Perhaps it can be part of the exciting A3 sedan range in the future.


What makes the RS3 so appealing is the hatch...


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## iamaudi (Apr 30, 2008)

*Thanks*

Thank you very much for your response Johan. Your presence speaks volumes about AoA and the Audi Brand; as well builds a tremendous amount of consumer confidence and awareness surrounding the Audi product.

Thank you again, say hi to Scott Keogh for me 

Have a great weekend.

Scott Mitchell


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## jordnalos (Nov 19, 2009)

Mr. De Nysschen, pretty cool to get on the forums and answer enthusiast's question. I actually just got back from a 2 week trip in Austria where there's plenty of Audis roaming even in taxi form. Also saw Audi forums/showrooms in Hungary and Italy. Everytime I take Dulles I always see Audi HQ passing by and wonder if anyone visits just to look at the company fleet of cars. I know I was curious when you visited Audi Silver Spring during the celebration of the new building last year and left in an R8 as well as a nice TT


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

No wagon or hatch coming to the states in the forseeable future? Wow FAIL Audi. Sorry guys, this is a MAJOR disappointment. :-(


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## 29_MALE_SOCAL_SPICY (Jun 16, 2008)

Best thread evar!!


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## Lwize (Dec 4, 2000)

djdub said:


> No wagon or hatch coming to the states in the forseeable future? Wow FAIL Audi. Sorry guys, this is a MAJOR disappointment. :-(


There must be a way to edumacate Americans on the merits of hatchbacks and wagons.


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## tdimeister (Feb 19, 1999)

Dear Mr. de Nysschen,

I am very pleased to see your presence at Fourtitude. The time you have taken out of your certainly busy schedule to answer our individual questions is very much appreciated. I echo the sentiment made by others that it has seemed that there has been some disconnect between AoA's product planning and the desires of the customers, notwithstanding the acceptance that as an enthusiast group we do not fully reflect the broader market. Nevertheless, I do thank you for the time you have taken to listen to what's on the ground, so to speak.

I am also very happy to hear that you envision expanding availability of the TDI engine to many more Audi models in North America, eventually toward offering it across the range. To be honest, this has been a no-brainer for many people like myself and like-minded Audi enthusiasts and I can show you where we have stated this on the record for quite a few years. Buyers of TDI Audis in North America have been instrumental in contributing to the sales success of the A3 and Q7 models, and I hope that with your participation here, you would also consider accepting my personal invitation to lend your voice over at forums.TDIClub.com, where where I have been a member and moderator for 12 years.

While I greatly applaud and eagerly anticipate an Audi A4 TDI and, while I have not done market research to the degree that your corporate bean-counters doubtless have undertaken, I respectfully insist that buyers will reject such a car if it were equipped with the same 4-cylinder, 140 HP 2.0 TDI engine that one can purchase in a ~$23k VW Golf/Jetta or ~$27k Passat. Additionally, how do you position a 4-cylinder 140 HP Audi A4 with an existing segment competitor in the 6-cylinder 265 HP BMW 335d already with 23/36 MPG according to the EPA??? Allow me to indulge to tell you how: A single special edition A4 Avant quattro 3.0 V6 TDI with the DL501 transmission (I worked for a supplier of a sub-system for that unit).

As a final word to tie-in the previous thought, I urge you to reconsider with all seriousness offering more Audi Avant models. You as an enthusiast yourself of European cars in particular recognize that this market largely rules out SUVs and crossovers, and have more European tastes for hatchbacks and wagons, especially of the high-performance nature. An S6 Avant quattro 3.0 T-FSI would complement the aforementioned A4 (S-Line?) Avant quattro 3.0 V6 TDI well. Audi is the pioneer of the high-performance wagon -- I owned an S4 Avant 4.2 V8 while in Germany -- and the above suggestion represents a heretofore untapped market (excepting the Cadillac CTS-V Wagon, which again, young European car aficionados will reject just because of the connotations that the nameplate represents).


Kindest regards.




Johan de Nysschen said:


> You will be pleased to know that we will expand our diesel offering to include some sedan models. You can expect to see the A8 and a bit later the A6 and the next generation A3 sedan with TDI clean diesel in addition to the Q5 and Q7.
> 
> To meet US emission regulations, we specially developed the engine used in the current A3 and we are able to comply with the regulations without the need for expensive exhaust treatment measures such as Adblue urea injection as used in the Q7. If we were to introduce quattro to the A3 TDI, the additional weight of the quattro drive system in conjunction with a full passenger complement and loaded luggage compartment, then under certain operating conditions such as full throttle acceleration on an incline it cannot be guaranteed that the A3 TDI would meet emission requirements without resorting to the urea injection system. If we were to add the urea injection system, we would need to modify the floor pan of the car to accomodate the exhaust system and the urea tank, which in turn would mean new crash tests and new development to comply with homologation. At this late stage of the life cycle it wouldn't be feasible.
> 
> ...


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## Plasticar (Sep 5, 2003)

*Avant body styles*

I was hoping that the next A3 would come in a 5 door / sportback / avant body style to replace my B6 A4. I am on my 3rd Audi (plus one B5.5 Passat), all avants. I use the hatch body style to carry my dogs, for shopping trips, and to carry large items in my business.

I have absolutely no interest in riding so high in a CUV such as the Q5. Since my desires are being abandoned by Audi, I guess my next car might have to be a Subaru or whoever is left making wagons. My 3 Audis have been the 3 best cars I have ever owned (out of more than 20). Thanks Audi, nice knowing you.


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## cebo0650 (Jun 26, 2010)

Mr. Nysschen 

As a current A6 Avant owner I'm very frustrated to read that there are no plans to bring the new A6 Avant to North America. I'm sure many others share my frustrations.

I'm sure you're aware that MB offers it's latest generation E-Class in the wagon configuration, and will soon offer it in the E63 AMG variant as well. If MB can build a case to offer their wagon in both the pedestrian and AMG versions why can't Audi find the case to offer at least the A6 Avant, never mind the S6 or RS6 Avant?

Homologation seems to me like a very poor excuse to deny Audi enthusiasts a great car. Contrary to popular belief not everyone wants a big, heavy and poor handling SUV just to get extra cargo space and utility. I really hope that Audi will reconsider it's current position in the coming years and once again offer the A6 Avant in North America.


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## tdi.power (Jul 31, 2011)

To Mr. DE NYSSCHEN

My questions are quite simple:
1. Is the 2nd generation R8 a 100% sure thing?
2. When will the new 4.0 V8 be officially launched?


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## typ356 (Mar 17, 2001)

*Lack of Avants*

I know that the Avant is not very popular in the US. But I rarely ever see them on dealer lots. So how can you sell them?


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

This thread is dissapointing, but I do appreciate the gentleman's frankness with AoA reasoning behind killing avants and hatches for the US market.

The way the wagon market stands, most of the people who buy them are driving enthusiats, which was clearly noted by Mr. Nysschen. Audi, for some reason, only offers avants as plain vanilla versions of the sedans. (can't get the 3.0T or a stick in the wagon, anymore) So the enthusiats are shut-out, the others just by SUV's, I assume marketing money for the wagons is next to nothing, at best, and we are told wagons are unsalable. Sounds a lot like a self-fulfilling scenario, here.

I think Audi could sell a wagon if they actually made it special. Maybe the right question is "how do we make a wagon different?" rather than "shouldn't we stop making wagons?" Maybe they could actually spend a few marketing bucks on it, too.

I think the bigger question here needs to be that given the number of people here, on a popular opinion forming forum, who want wagons, can Audi afford to lose these people to other brands? I've made the point before that people research cars now, ad infinitum, on the internet. The brand lovers sell cars, plain and simple. There's "that guy" in every office that is the car nut, and people ask his (or her) opinion on what's hot and what's sporty. I'd guess a lot of "that guy" types are on this board, and it soulds like those people want wagons. What's Audi going to do when BMW drops the self-admiited failure of the 5 GT and replaces it with a proper wagon? 

What's Audi going to do when the customer base looks at an A7 and realizes that they're paying $10k more for an A6 with an awkward trunk and miserable rear visibility? Will they start making the same generalizations about Audi that BMW owners made? 


Right now, I own three (3) Audis. One A3 hatch, which my wife adores, and two A4's, both sedans becuase Audi doesn't sell sticks in wagons anymore. In all, about $100k of AoA hardware sits on my asphalt. If the A3 hatch doesn't return, I know right now, neither will my wife. I'd bet more than a few dollars that she'll put herself in a Mini Countryman. I'll also add that if BMW does the right thing and brings back the 5er wagon, even if it comes with a dual clutch semi-auto, the two A4's will be gone, too when the leases are up. More than few people I know bought Audis becuase I endoresed them. I can't really endorse them anymore if Audi forces me to jump ship.


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

It is indeed a disappointing outlook for us, or those that clamor for pratical and maybe a little uniqueness in form of a hatch/avant. There are too many un-favorable excuses and reasons from AoA- it is no different when it comes to Audi customer service (you will never see top of survey list if you continue this)

Audi- your head is getting bigger- and you are turning away the followers that made you.

VAG- please stop spending money purchasing other brands (let it go with Alfa Romeo) You have poured more money in Bentley and your other niche concepts and products that you have forgotten what "customer base" is about.
How do you plan to sell more to become worlds largest automaker when you come up with excuses that is not any better than saying "Audi would only like to sell cars in the US that makes them look good from people that they can fool in spending unpractical amount of $. "


If thats the case- Audi and AoA, you are doing a fantastic job...

Mr AOA- if you are not "aware" of the design flaws in parts/manufacturing and the hoops and agony that your customers have to go through, then you are not doing a good job or your job at all. Do you know what a cam-follower is? Do you know what a mechatronic is?


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## cebo0650 (Jun 26, 2010)

typ356 said:


> I know that the Avant is not very popular in the US. But I rarely ever see them on dealer lots. So how can you sell them?


Further on this point, have you EVER seen and Audi ads that even mention or show an Avant? No Avants on dealer lots, no Avant advertising to speak of...hmm no surprise you can't sell many!


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## paul99 (Oct 1, 2000)

typ356 said:


> I know that the Avant is not very popular in the US. But I rarely ever see them on dealer lots. So how can you sell them?


It is based on yearly sells, Avant was in decline for years , sedan was outselling avant 1:10, 
the only we can change that if the government will change rules on certification of new vehicles and matches to what Europe has or close to it, most of the world follows European certification or it is close to that doesn't require serious modification , then we can see a lot of new cars but we know that will never happen, :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:this is also due to very strict California emissions that any European models introduced to North America must comply ,


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## cooterbo (Sep 27, 2009)

Seems like AoA's "intel" about what USA wants is a little dated, maybe a couple of years old. I've seen in the last two years an increase in Americans downsizing their cars. At least ten of my friends have traded in their humongous trucks and SUV's for smaller more efficient hatches. The Crossover is a fad and basically a minivan as much as owners do not want to admit it. Come on Audi, stop listening to whatever think-tank is telling you what we Americans want, because we enthusiasts are your core customers and we are telling you what we want!


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re-curring comment in this thread; Lack of Avants in the US*

I currently own a C5 2004 Audi A6 Avant 3.0L Quattro; it is a great car. My wife an I have been Audi owners since 1987. Our first Audi was a 1987 Coupe GT.

I was really looking forward to the C7 Audi A6 Avant. My preferred engine was the new 3.0L Supercharged engine.

I am EXTREMELY disappointed that Audi has no plans to bring the C7 A6 Avant to North America. This decision will drive me away from Audi ownership. The Q7 / Q5 has NO appeal to me. 

I did not buy a C6 A6 Avant because there were a number of design and engineering issues that I did not care for. The last C6 A6 Avant did have the newer engine but I really prefer the C7 Avant design , especially the interior and exterior appearence.

I do want a European-based wagon. Going forward, my choices seem to be Mercedes, Volvo or Saab. Right now, I am leaning towards the new Saab 9-5 SportWagon.

If anyone from Audi is following this Forum, I hope that they will reconsider and make the C7 A6 Avant available in North America. I REALLY WANT ONE!!!:thumbup:


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## paul99 (Oct 1, 2000)

America is in love in small SUV's, and small compact cars which will dominate the market for next number of years , and minivans are everywhere because of practicality and size , avants are not so popular, and Audi doesn't want to make this to be costly , we need to demand government to make certification/emissions etc to be the same as the rest of the word,


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

eTh1nk said:


> I currently own a C5 2004 Audi A6 Avant 3.0L Quattro; it is a great car. My wife an I have been Audi owners since 1987. Our first Audi was a 1987 Coupe GT.
> 
> I was really looking forward to the C7 Audi A6 Avant. My preferred engine was the new 3.0L Supercharged engine.
> 
> ...


You might want to look at the Audi A7. Unless you have a dog or need direct access to the trunk area, I suspect you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I say this as an Avant enthusiast knowing there are plenty of A6 Avant S-lines in the Audi of America headquarters parking lot (probably more than in the rest of the Northeast)... Avants simply don't sell. Maybe if all of us complaining about their departure had bought one things might be different. I know I love them, but at the same time I know I have an XC90 in the family car slot in my garage that's about to be replaced by a Touareg TDI.

So knowing there are so many Avant enthusiasts in HQ, I can empathize with them. On one hand, you love the cars. On the other hand, your performance is measured in Germany by the amount you grow the market by spending a limited budget bringing in the best possible mix. If the USA were made up of people like us, there's be no question. Unfortunately, American buying patterns do not mirror this. I just hope that with the added volume everyone expects Audi to add, bringing cars like the A6 Avant will be a luxury we can all enjoy.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

cooterbo said:


> Seems like AoA's "intel" about what USA wants is a little dated, maybe a couple of years old. I've seen in the last two years an increase in Americans downsizing their cars. At least ten of my friends have traded in their humongous trucks and SUV's for smaller more efficient hatches. The Crossover is a fad and basically a minivan as much as owners do not want to admit it. Come on Audi, stop listening to whatever think-tank is telling you what we Americans want, because we enthusiasts are your core customers and we are telling you what we want!


Downsizing is definitely a trend, however I'm not so sure how accurate it is to say crossovers are a fad. Most car companies use metrics from the same sources to help read the tea leaves and I've heard personally that the next big segment is expected to be the small crossover (Q3 at Audi). That car will likely come in the next MQB generation.

I say this regretfully, but if you look around the wagon market continues to shrink. A6 will go away, BMW and Mercedes numbers are dismal and Volvo's president told me at the Detroit Auto Show that their priority would be S (as in sedans) and XC (as in crossovers). A good solid placement for S60 / XC60 and S80/XC90 are their key models. S40 and V50 have been sliced for next year. It's probably only a matter of time for C70.

I love Avants and likely you do too, but unfortunately the market doesn't indicate this.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

cebo0650 said:


> Further on this point, have you EVER seen and Audi ads that even mention or show an Avant? No Avants on dealer lots, no Avant advertising to speak of...hmm no surprise you can't sell many!


I'm sure you're right in the notion that if they advertised them more they'd sell more of them, but I don't see a conspiracy here. This is a market thing and wagons are disappearing from lineups and/or selling less across the board... likely the greater efficiency of crossovers is helping bring in more consumers who want a higher driving position but were unwilling to deal with the inefficiency of an SUV.

Though no one at Audi has told me this, it's pretty easy to read the tea leaves. The A7 spoke for the A6 Avant's budget and effectively replaced it in the lineup. The A7, though billed as a coupe, has nearly the same utilitarian quality as the Avant below the beltline. Still, where the typical non wagon buyer saw the A6 Avant and saw a family truckster, most look at the A7 and see one of the most beautiful cars on the road (personal experience here, I got that a lot in the time I've spent in the A7).

Audi sees potential in the A7 that it didn't see in the A6 Avant, and thus the A7 is getting plenty of marketing dollars.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

FractureCritical said:


> This thread is dissapointing, but I do appreciate the gentleman's frankness with AoA reasoning behind killing avants and hatches for the US market.
> 
> The way the wagon market stands, most of the people who buy them are driving enthusiats, which was clearly noted by Mr. Nysschen. Audi, for some reason, only offers avants as plain vanilla versions of the sedans. (can't get the 3.0T or a stick in the wagon, anymore) So the enthusiats are shut-out, the others just by SUV's, I assume marketing money for the wagons is next to nothing, at best, and we are told wagons are unsalable. Sounds a lot like a self-fulfilling scenario, here.


I'd agree with you if it were just Audi. I think the whole industry sees the trend though and thus this is not something unique to Audi.



> I think Audi could sell a wagon if they actually made it special. Maybe the right question is "how do we make a wagon different?" rather than "shouldn't we stop making wagons?" Maybe they could actually spend a few marketing bucks on it, too.


This is an interesting point. So I'd ask two questions. First, does the A7 not qualify as something special? In my mind, this is a replacement for some of those who'd seek an A6 Avant... albeit not all because it's not quite as utilitarian and it definitely gives up the "sleeper" effect of the A6 Avant that some of us (myself included) might prefer.

The second question would be this. If you're a product planner at AoA and you can bring in one new Avant to the lineup, which would it be? A6 Avant? S6 Avant? A4 Avant? S4 Avant? A3 Sportback? RS 4 Avant?

I know which one I'd answer, and I can tell you that this car is still being considered. It is something special and it is something that gives the enthusiasts what they'd want in spades.



> I think the bigger question here needs to be that given the number of people here, on a popular opinion forming forum, who want wagons, can Audi afford to lose these people to other brands? I've made the point before that people research cars now, ad infinitum, on the internet. The brand lovers sell cars, plain and simple. There's "that guy" in every office that is the car nut, and people ask his (or her) opinion on what's hot and what's sporty. I'd guess a lot of "that guy" types are on this board, and it soulds like those people want wagons. What's Audi going to do when BMW drops the self-admiited failure of the 5 GT and replaces it with a proper wagon?


I do envy BMW and Mercedes in this respect. With their North American volume, Mercedes-Benz at least continues to bring the wagons... perhaps as a pillar to the brand and what it represents. I know the product Audi is pushing through in that nature and they've decided to focus on efficiency (TDI) and performance/enthusiast (S/RS) rather than Avants. You can't please all of the people all of the time... at least not before you more than double your US sales volume.



> What's Audi going to do when the customer base looks at an A7 and realizes that they're paying $10k more for an A6 with an awkward trunk and miserable rear visibility? Will they start making the same generalizations about Audi that BMW owners made?


I've spent a week in an A7. I had no insurmountable issue with rear visibility. Yes, it is $10K more, but the A6 Avant was also a pretty hefty premium over the sedan. Last, the A7 gets nearly as much stoplight praise as an R8. To many of these buyers, that will help them stomach the difference.




> Right now, I own three (3) Audis. One A3 hatch, which my wife adores, and two A4's, both sedans becuase Audi doesn't sell sticks in wagons anymore. In all, about $100k of AoA hardware sits on my asphalt. If the A3 hatch doesn't return, I know right now, neither will my wife. I'd bet more than a few dollars that she'll put herself in a Mini Countryman. I'll also add that if BMW does the right thing and brings back the 5er wagon, even if it comes with a dual clutch semi-auto, the two A4's will be gone, too when the leases are up. More than few people I know bought Audis becuase I endoresed them. I can't really endorse them anymore if Audi forces me to jump ship.


I agree on the A3 Sportback. Though I don't own one, I sure wish they'd keep bringing over this model. I was a bit disappointed to hear it's been cut for now.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> You might want to look at the Audi A7. Unless you have a dog or need direct access to the trunk area, I suspect you'll be pleasantly surprised.
> 
> I say this as an Avant enthusiast knowing there are plenty of A6 Avant S-lines in the Audi of America headquarters parking lot (probably more than in the rest of the Northeast)... Avants simply don't sell. Maybe if all of us complaining about their departure had bought one things might be different. I know I love them, but at the same time I know I have an XC90 in the family car slot in my garage that's about to be replaced by a Touareg TDI.
> 
> So knowing there are so many Avant enthusiasts in HQ, I can empathize with them. On one hand, you love the cars. On the other hand, your performance is measured in Germany by the amount you grow the market by spending a limited budget bringing in the best possible mix. If the USA were made up of people like us, there's be no question. Unfortunately, American buying patterns do not mirror this. I just hope that with the added volume everyone expects Audi to add, bringing cars like the A6 Avant will be a luxury we can all enjoy.


I actually say in an A7 this morning when I dropped my A4 off for service. Nice car, but the rear headroom is creepy and you cannot see out over the rear fenders. I think an Escalade could hide behind those C pillars. Worst rear visibility I've seen in a car since my 69 Mach 1. I'm sure it will work for some, but it's not wagon substitute and I personally consider it a poor functional design. 

The more I think about this issue, the more it bothers me. Audi, as of the 2013 model year, whittled the line-up down to one wagon, and claim they don't generate sales, but they will have three different convertibles(?). I'm confused by that logic, but if the bean counters say that works, then fine.

As I see it, all the naysayers say wagons don't sell and AoA doesn't put the money into them when it comes to advertizing and options. The A4 Avant, for example, only comes iwth one powertrain option. Fine. If the Avant doesn't sell than take some inspiration, flip the equation over, and look at it from the other side. If the Avants don't sell, then AoA HAS NOTHING TO LOSE by trying something a little crazy, right? Why not take the A4 and turn it into something unique? If people aren't buying them anyway, there's nothing to lose and it costs nothing more to rejigger the base car if you're only going to offer it one way, right? That way the beancounters can't gripe. Why waste AoA funds packaging a drivetraing for an A4 Avant the same way as a Q5? It's silly and redundant, and I think it's reasonable to look at it that way.

IF you're only going to sell a few thousand A4 Avants a year, why not push it a bit? The detuned 3.0T motor (if it's coming here for the A4 as a mid-level motor) would be a perfect starting point. Why even offer the Avant with the 2.0T? Give it a one-step up motor for a performance slant. Put that motor behind the the S-Tronic tranny rather than the Tiptronic. Make it standard. Throw the S-line appearance and steering wheel/seat package at it, also standard, and call it a day. Offer the sport suspension as an option for those of us who like it rough. Nothing to lose, right? The development costs of such a car are absolutely zero from an engineering aspect, and it acutally fills a niche that truly exists, judging by the fanboys on this forum. I gotta believe that if there's a market for A3 convertible, and A5 convertible, and an A6 with headroom and visibility issues that there's a market for a performance wagon.


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## paul99 (Oct 1, 2000)

FractureCritical said:


> I actually say in an A7 this morning when I dropped my A4 off for service. Nice car, but the rear headroom is creepy and you cannot see out over the rear fenders. I think an Escalade could hide behind those C pillars. Worst rear visibility I've seen in a car since my 69 Mach 1. I'm sure it will work for some, but it's not wagon substitute and I personally consider it a poor functional design.


Agree with on this one, I saw and test drove A7 didn't like the rear visibility and practicality of the trunk only for those with golf clubs 



FractureCritical said:


> The more I think about this issue, the more it bothers me. Audi, as of the 2013 model year, whittled the line-up down to one wagon, and claim they don't generate sales, but they will have three different convertibles(?). I'm confused by that logic, but if the bean counters say that works, then fine.


if you notice those who drive convertibles are older men and women who have middle age crises :laugh:, now the baby boomers are retiring convertible is a must to have.. 



FractureCritical said:


> As I see it, all the naysayers say wagons don't sell and AoA doesn't put the money into them when it comes to advertizing and options. The A4 Avant, for example, only comes iwth one powertrain option. Fine. If the Avant doesn't sell than take some inspiration, flip the equation over, and look at it from the other side. If the Avants don't sell, then AoA HAS NOTHING TO LOSE by trying something a little crazy, right? Why not take the A4 and turn it into something unique? If people aren't buying them anyway, there's nothing to lose and it costs nothing more to rejigger the base car if you're only going to offer it one way, right? That way the beancounters can't gripe. Why waste AoA funds packaging a drivetraing for an A4 Avant the same way as a Q5? It's silly and redundant, and I think it's reasonable to look at it that way.


if you look at the yearly sells of audi, avants sell in less then 500-600 units per year, and every year they decline more, because of demand for small SUV's and 3 door vehicles, 
someone said that if the decline reaches less then 300 vehicles per year the manufacture cancels availability 
in Europe is the same, in recent years there is decline sells in avants, more demand for minivans and small compact SUV, so manufacture avants is becoming slowly obsolete, and they might only make as special model once a while

another issue is that certification and emission for North American is expensive, if we could match to European standards what the rest of the world has except USA and Canada we could see what europe gets but we know this will never happen, 




FractureCritical said:


> IF you're only going to sell a few thousand A4 Avants a year, why not push it a bit? The detuned 3.0T motor (if it's coming here for the A4 as a mid-level motor) would be a perfect starting point. Why even offer the Avant with the 2.0T? Give it a one-step up motor for a performance slant. Put that motor behind the the S-Tronic tranny rather than the Tiptronic. Make it standard. Throw the S-line appearance and steering wheel/seat package at it, also standard, and call it a day. Offer the sport suspension as an option for those of us who like it rough. Nothing to lose, right? The development costs of such a car are absolutely zero from an engineering aspect, and it acutally fills a niche that truly exists, judging by the fanboys on this forum. I gotta believe that if there's a market for A3 convertible, and A5 convertible, and an A6 with headroom and visibility issues that there's a market for a performance wagon.


Certification emission costs are huge , especially everything that is coming to North America is tuned to strict California emissions which adds up to costs, if there is a possibility to disconnect California from the rest of North America I am all for it , 
Audi will do the math if it is worth it, the market becomes more crowded with newer models from competition and it is harder for Audi to attract new people to their cars


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

paul99 said:


> Certification emission costs are huge , especially everything that is coming to North America is tuned to strict California emissions which adds up to costs, if there is a possibility to disconnect California from the rest of North America I am all for it ,
> Audi will do the math if it is worth it, the market becomes more crowded with newer models from competition and it is harder for Audi to attract new people to their cars


Agree with you on this, but *IF* Audi is going to offer a wagon, they will need to homologate it. And *IF* Audi is planning on offering a detuned 3.0T for the A4 line, they will need to homolgate thatm too. In any event, Audi will need to homolgate a wagon with an engine in it. If they're going to bother offering a wagon, they will only spend the money to homolgate one motor. The idea here was that they homogate the wagon with the bigger motor and forego the smaller one to simutaneously cut costs and differentiate the wagon from the sedan and the Q series.

I offer the Prius as an example of how well this can work. Asa whole, hybrid versions of standard vehicles are not great sellers. The Prius, which is not that special of a hybrid car, has immidate and complete recognition from passers by as a hybrid becuase there is no gas version of it. There's no guess work. You look at a Prius and you know it's a hybrid becuase it can't be anything else. That's why people buy them.

Audi should do the same thing with a wagon. i.e. Audi only sells the wagon with a hotrod motor. Therefore, all Audi wagons are hotrods. Anyone who buys an Audi wagon therefore gets implicit recognition as a performance car driver. When you drive up behind and S4, you look at the decklid for the flash of red, but if you're not a deep seated Audi fan, you'd miss that. Put the hot motor in the wagon, and only the hot motor. spend a modicum of money promoting it, just enough that even the pedestrian Audi shopper will know the wagon is a hotrod, and that will be enough. The rest should happen on it's own.


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## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> I'm sure you're right in the notion that if they advertised them more they'd sell more of them, but I don't see a conspiracy here. This is a market thing and wagons are disappearing from lineups and/or selling less across the board... likely the greater efficiency of crossovers is helping bring in more consumers who want a higher driving position but were unwilling to deal with the inefficiency of an SUV.
> 
> Though no one at Audi has told me this, it's pretty easy to read the tea leaves. The A7 spoke for the A6 Avant's budget and effectively replaced it in the lineup. The A7, though billed as a coupe, has nearly the same utilitarian quality as the Avant below the beltline. Still, where the typical non wagon buyer saw the A6 Avant and saw a family truckster, most look at the A7 and see one of the most beautiful cars on the road (personal experience here, I got that a lot in the time I've spent in the A7).
> 
> Audi sees potential in the A7 that it didn't see in the A6 Avant, and thus the A7 is getting plenty of marketing dollars.


The A7 vs. A6 Avant choice is perhaps understandable but I find the reasoning for not renewing A3 Sportback and S4 Avant disheartening. And we can read between the lines too... A4 Avant is not long for these shores either.

I think I speak for many when I say that we (the long time Audi owners/enthusiasts) *had expect AoA's recent sales success and prosperity to result in more choices and diversity in trim/option/body style/drivetrain options when in fact, the opposite is happening*. This is really paradoxical development that I surely did not expect. And Johan's comments only further reinforce the perception that AoA doesn't really care about its small band of long time owners - you know the one that is still holding on to their allroads and B5 S4 Avants because there are no feasible upgrade path for them.

When I purchased my B6 A4, I had the choice of sedan or Avant, 1.8T or 3.0, manual or auto, FWD or quattro. That was probably very expensive for AoA to do but they managed to make it happen. Fast forward 10 years, AoA sales have more than doubled but yet, A4 model selection is down to a trickle, and you can only get the Avant in one flavor - take it or leave it.

I think this is where the frustration is coming from... for years, we stood by Audi as it recovered from the 60 Minute fiasco, and it seems like our loyalty has been rewarded with a swift kick to the backside. The lack of Avant is emblematic of this attitude. AoA seems to think we will buy another Audi anyway... which may be true. We are suckers.

It's a sentiment I've expressed before (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3728550-Audi-turning-the-corner-or-turning-its-back) and I predicted many of things that is happening now. I'll just leave it at that...


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## paul99 (Oct 1, 2000)

I remember few years back before launch of Q7 or Q5, how many of Audi enthusiasts cried for lack of Audi expansion into SUV region, and finally Audi broke down and delivered Q7, then Q5, possibility future Q3, and Q6 is in works now as well, then everyone jumped into it, leaving Avants in dust, and sales dropped quickly only Sedan manage to hold , with avant being drugged behind , but again I need to stress that if North American USA/Canada homolgate vehicle safety/certification/emission to the rest of the world we wouldn't have these problems we have now, 
About two years ago Canada homolgate with USA bumper safety, before we use to get huge bumpers in A4, A6, Audi TT , now if you look at the new cars they don't have huge bumpers and they are the same as European gets, so, perhaps in years to come NA will comply to one global safety/certification/emission standards , we need to complain more to our governments to demand change


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## cebo0650 (Jun 26, 2010)

paul99 said:


> ......so, perhaps in years to come NA will comply to one global safety/certification/emission standards , we need to complain more to our governments to demand change


I really hope that will come true on day, but I have serious doubts, due to American protectionism. If you take a close look it's easy to see European safety and emission standards are more stringent. Alas, the US always has to find a way to be different.


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*The C7 A6 is NOT an "alternative" for the A6 Avant!*



[email protected] said:


> You might want to look at the Audi A7. Unless you have a dog or need direct access to the trunk area, I suspect you'll be pleasantly surprised.
> 
> I say this as an Avant enthusiast knowing there are plenty of A6 Avant S-lines in the Audi of America headquarters parking lot (probably more than in the rest of the Northeast)... Avants simply don't sell. Maybe if all of us complaining about their departure had bought one things might be different. I know I love them, but at the same time I know I have an XC90 in the family car slot in my garage that's about to be replaced by a Touareg TDI.
> 
> So knowing there are so many Avant enthusiasts in HQ, I can empathize with them. On one hand, you love the cars. On the other hand, your performance is measured in Germany by the amount you grow the market by spending a limited budget bringing in the best possible mix. If the USA were made up of people like us, there's be no question. Unfortunately, American buying patterns do not mirror this. I just hope that with the added volume everyone expects Audi to add, bringing cars like the A6 Avant will be a luxury we can all enjoy.


So why do Subaru Legacy Outback Wagons sell so well throughout New England and in the Northwest?

So why are VW Jetta Wagons selling so well in the NE?

So why are Volvo XC70 Wagons selling so well?

There are so many loyal allroad owners. But since Audi did not import the C6 allroad, they have lost this market. 

Now that Audi has decided not to import the the C7 A6 Avant, they will lose this market as well. 

In addition, VW has decide not to import the Passat Wagon. 

It appears that VW and Audi management wants US buyers to purchase SUVs. Given this plan, VW and Audi are disenfranchising many loyal owners and product champions. This seems to be a poor strategy to "grow" their US market share. :screwy:

I really want a C7 A6 Avant S-line! Would I pay a premium for this vehicle? Probably. Audi USA is making a mistake with this product strategy.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

FractureCritical said:


> I actually say in an A7 this morning when I dropped my A4 off for service. Nice car, but the rear headroom is creepy and you cannot see out over the rear fenders. I think an Escalade could hide behind those C pillars. Worst rear visibility I've seen in a car since my 69 Mach 1. I'm sure it will work for some, but it's not wagon substitute and I personally consider it a poor functional design.


69 Mach 1s were still cool, so people bought them. Likely the same with the A7. Arguably too, the rearview camera for backing up considerably neutralizes the blindspots while backing up. Set your rearviews well and there's no more blindspot on the road than an A6... and there's also the lane monitoring option should you want it.



> The A4 Avant, for example, only comes iwth one powertrain option. Fine. If the Avant doesn't sell than take some inspiration, flip the equation over, and look at it from the other side. If the Avants don't sell, then AoA HAS NOTHING TO LOSE by trying something a little crazy, right? Why not take the A4 and turn it into something unique? If people aren't buying them anyway, there's nothing to lose and it costs nothing more to rejigger the base car if you're only going to offer it one way, right? That way the beancounters can't gripe. Why waste AoA funds packaging a drivetraing for an A4 Avant the same way as a Q5? It's silly and redundant, and I think it's reasonable to look at it that way.
> 
> IF you're only going to sell a few thousand A4 Avants a year, why not push it a bit? The detuned 3.0T motor (if it's coming here for the A4 as a mid-level motor) would be a perfect starting point. Why even offer the Avant with the 2.0T? Give it a one-step up motor for a performance slant. Put that motor behind the the S-Tronic tranny rather than the Tiptronic. Make it standard. Throw the S-line appearance and steering wheel/seat package at it, also standard, and call it a day. Offer the sport suspension as an option for those of us who like it rough. Nothing to lose, right? The development costs of such a car are absolutely zero from an engineering aspect, and it acutally fills a niche that truly exists, judging by the fanboys on this forum. I gotta believe that if there's a market for A3 convertible, and A5 convertible, and an A6 with headroom and visibility issues that there's a market for a performance wagon.


This is a question of either volume or profitability to offset the cost of federalization/homologation of the model. 2.0T will sell the highest volume and is already cleared for sale here so if the A4 Avant carries over then it will do so with a 2.0T... though likely get the 8-speed... still cheaper than homologating a 3.0T. 

If that weren't the case then the 3.0T is an interesting choice from a product planning perspective because savings could likely be applied to adding the S4 Avant. Unfortunately, we're not dealing with a clean sheet of paper this time around. This next A4 is a facelift or P.I. (product improvement), so you're still factoring in the current lineup to the homologation equation. I'd also consider the 2.0T hybrid or 2.0 TDI for a high efficiency model, because the Q5 can't match the A4 Avant's aero superiority. This, like your 3.0T idea, isn't all that feasible given where we are in the lifecycle.

Still, you shouldn't give up just yet. The RS 4 (Avant only) is being considered for the USA. Likely its proposed profitability would be great enough and it would certainly help sell the Avant as a performance car better than even the S4. The downside is that there'll be a cost of entry to that and the cars will certainly be more exclusive if this should come to fruition.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

bzcat said:


> The A7 vs. A6 Avant choice is perhaps understandable but I find the reasoning for not renewing A3 Sportback and S4 Avant disheartening. And we can read between the lines too... A4 Avant is not long for these shores either.


The A3 will be replaced by the A3 sedan and, like the Avant vs. Sportback issue, the A3 sedan will sell better.



> I think I speak for many when I say that we (the long time Audi owners/enthusiasts) *had expect AoA's recent sales success and prosperity to result in more choices and diversity in trim/option/body style/drivetrain options when in fact, the opposite is happening*. This is really paradoxical development that I surely did not expect. And Johan's comments only further reinforce the perception that AoA doesn't really care about its small band of long time owners - you know the one that is still holding on to their allroads and B5 S4 Avants because there are no feasible upgrade path for them.


I see your point, but disagree a bit. There is pressure to add additional drivetrains such as diesel, hybrid and high performance. During the B5 days, we had no diesels or hybrids though we'll have diesels virtually line wide within two years and a hybrid Q5 by next year. There were no RS cars for America during the B5 days, but by next year we'll have RS 5, TT RS... and RS 7 won't be far behind.

In the B5 days we had three S-cars, S4, S6 and S8. By the end of next year we'll likely have all three of those, plus TTS, plus S7.

In the B5 days we had TT, A4/S4, A6/S6/allroad, A8/A8L/S8. Counting the Avants and convertibles, that's 13 individual models counting roadsters and cabriolets and not counting drivetrains in the equation. Today we have TT/TTS/TTRS, A3, A4/S4, A5/S5, Q5, A6, Q7, A8/A8L, R8. In another year, we should have S6, S7, S8 and RS 5. That's 20 models currently and 24 by the end of calendar year 2012.... 25 if an RS 5 Cabriolet pops up.

Looking at the math, it would seem that they've simply chosen a very strategic emphasis. Avants that do little to garner press and don't sell well have been dialled back. A4 Avant will likely become A4 allroad only as they've proven to sell better when packaged as an SUV given the Outback and XC70 models. The new emphasis is on efficiency technology (diesel and hybrids) and performance (RS cars, R8 GT). Finally, there's the push to grow volume in the C/D segment where Avants sell even worse than in the B segment.



> When I purchased my B6 A4, I had the choice of sedan or Avant, 1.8T or 3.0, manual or auto, FWD or quattro. That was probably very expensive for AoA to do but they managed to make it happen. Fast forward 10 years, AoA sales have more than doubled but yet, A4 model selection is down to a trickle, and you can only get the Avant in one flavor - take it or leave it.


The other problem during that era was profitability. On these press events I attend, Audi execs were regularly asked whether Audi was yet profitable in the USA. The response was usually no answer or the answer no. Audi of America is profitable today under a weaker dollar, and in the end they are a business.



> I think this is where the frustration is coming from... for years, we stood by Audi as it recovered from the 60 Minute fiasco, and it seems like our loyalty has been rewarded with a swift kick to the backside. The lack of Avant is emblematic of this attitude. AoA seems to think we will buy another Audi anyway... which may be true. We are suckers.
> 
> It's a sentiment I've expressed before (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3728550-Audi-turning-the-corner-or-turning-its-back) and I predicted many of things that is happening now. I'll just leave it at that...


I simply disagree man. I look at the range and I disagree. There's a TT RS here... and I WILL own one of those at some point. The S5 is old news already and an RS 5 is on the way, where Audi hadn't had a serious performance GT coupe since the Ur quattro left in 1985. While Avant owners are certainly more left out in the cold than others, I see the current lineup as having never had such a level of options.

I love Avants. I seriously do. I love manual transmissions too. Unfortunately the market is leaving those two preferences behind... even where there is the most interest. If, as was mentioned, Avants are on the decline in Europe... then that says something quite clearly. In regards to the transmissions, even the BMW M3 (to me, a last bastion of manual transmission loving consumers) is being fitted more and more with their version of S-tronic. The market is changing. I don't particularly like it, but it is what it is.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

cebo0650 said:


> I really hope that will come true on day, but I have serious doubts, due to American protectionism. If you take a close look it's easy to see European safety and emission standards are more stringent. Alas, the US always has to find a way to be different.


Yeah, I'd agree here. Adopting anything European or global wouldn't be terribly popular with the current political climate. We tend to want to go our own way even in more fiscally successful eras. Further, opening up those rules would open a door for even more imports from the French, Italians and more that might hurt our domestic manufacturers and cost them a lot of money to re-tool their domestic models to meet Euro rules. It'd be cool, but it's not very realistic.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

eTh1nk said:


> So why do Subaru Legacy Outback Wagons sell so well throughout New England and in the Northwest?
> 
> So why are VW Jetta Wagons selling so well in the NE?
> 
> So why are Volvo XC70 Wagons selling so well?


There are any number of factors here. Outback and XC70 do okay, but don't light the world on fire. Arguably, the Subaru at least, is in a different price bracket, as is the Jetta. The XC70's days in the US are numbered and I've heard this directly from Volvo execs who I interact with via our management of Swedespeed.com. The V50 has just been cancelled. As you point out, the Passat wagon has also been cancelled.


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## ACD (Feb 20, 1999)

It's a sad day for people like myself who buy purpose-built vehicles. I like convertibles for driving fun and station wagons for utility. But I am in the minority and don't blame AoA for selling cars in an environment hostile to adopting global standards. We can't be upset with Audi (or any other brand) for not wasting time and money selling cars at a loss for the sake of a few enthusiasts. Petition the government if it means that much to you. Otherwise, get used to buying pre-owned cars. I know I'll be happy keeping my cars for many years and then seeking out well preserved versions after mine are exhausted.

Thank you Mr. de Nysschen for taking the time to answer our questions. I would love an A5 Sportback, but again, it is the fault of the U.S. Government (not AoA) that we aren't able to purchase one. Keep up the beautiful engineering, and by the way - I live in Chicago and have started seeing A7s in my neighborhood...they are gorgeous.


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*AoA should NOT take US Customers for granted*



bzcat said:


> Selection is down to a trickle, and you can only get the Avant in one flavor - take it or leave it.
> 
> I think this is where the frustration is coming from... for years, we stood by Audi as it recovered from the 60 Minute fiasco, and it seems like our loyalty has been rewarded with a swift kick to the backside. The lack of Avant is emblematic of this attitude. AoA seems to think we will buy another Audi anyway... which may be true. We are suckers.
> 
> It's a sentiment I've expressed before (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3728550-Audi-turning-the-corner-or-turning-its-back) and I predicted many of things that is happening now. I'll just leave it at that...


My wife and I have owned Audis since 1987. We bought our first Audi, a Coupe GT, at the height of the "60 minute Fiasco".

My wife will probably replace her A4 3.0 Quattro, but NOT with another Audi. Her next car will be the VW CC with the V6 and Four-Motion.

I will probably replace my A6 Avant 3.0 Quattro, but NOT with another Audi. My next car will probably be the new Saab 9-5 Wagon with the V6 and AWD.

It is unfortunately that Audi no longer has cars that we want to own. :thumbdown:


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

eTh1nk said:


> I will probably replace my A6 Avant 3.0 Quattro, but NOT with another Audi. My next car will probably be the new Saab 9-5 Wagon with the V6 and AWD.
> 
> It is unfortunately that Audi no longer has cars that we want to own. :thumbdown:


3.0 quattro, so you're in a C5 and if you're considering a 9-5 wagon as alternative my guess is you REALLY want an Avant. I'd suggest you consider at least also looking at the A4 Avant (next summer will be facelifted and allroad only from what I understand). The current A4 is very similar in size to your C5 and in S-line trim is a fantastic setup. The 9-5 wagon is an older chassis with infotainment not on par with Audi's... much less interior build quality or drivetrains. Judging where your price range is based on the assumed price of the Saab, I'd look at either a CPO A4 Avant S-line or CPO C6 A6 Avant with 3.0T drivetrain. Either would be the better car and still be an Audi if that is still your brand of choice.

If you must have new, I'd go somewhere other than Saab. It seems like a nice enough car but I'd be VERY wary as to whether they'll still be in business and since it's essentially privately held, you don't have a big multinational car corporation like GM to keep parts availability going and dealers set on continued services. If you must have new and it must be a wagon, I'd suggest the Volvo XC70.

Me, I'd take the A4 Avant 2.0T S-line.


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## DP_Donnie (Mar 18, 2004)

A/C compressor, Cam follower, mechatronics...


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*Alternative for the A6 Avant*



[email protected] said:


> 3.0 quattro, so you're in a C5 and if you're considering a 9-5 wagon as alternative my guess is you REALLY want an Avant. I'd suggest you consider at least also looking at the A4 Avant (next summer will be facelifted and allroad only from what I understand). The current A4 is very similar in size to your C5 and in S-line trim is a fantastic setup. The 9-5 wagon is an older chassis with infotainment not on par with Audi's... much less interior build quality or drivetrains. Judging where your price range is based on the assumed price of the Saab, I'd look at either a CPO A4 Avant S-line or CPO C6 A6 Avant with 3.0T drivetrain. Either would be the better car and still be an Audi if that is still your brand of choice.
> 
> If you must have new, I'd go somewhere other than Saab. It seems like a nice enough car but I'd be VERY wary as to whether they'll still be in business and since it's essentially privately held, you don't have a big multinational car corporation like GM to keep parts availability going and dealers set on continued services. If you must have new and it must be a wagon, I'd suggest the Volvo XC70.
> 
> Me, I'd take the A4 Avant 2.0T S-line.


*No, the A4 Avant is NOT an alternative. I definitely do NOT want a 4 cylinder Turbocharged engine.*

The Volvo XC70 or the Saab 9-5 SportWagon appear to be the only alternatives.

The XC70 can be configured to be very close to my A6 Avant, including AWD, 6-cylinder non-turbo engine, leather and moon-roof. The XC70 appears to have decent reliability. The price for the XC70 is considerably less than a CPO Audi A6 Avant; $42,000 vs $50,000 to $53,000. The XC70 also includes a service maintenance package like my C5 A6 had. _However, I still like the exterior appearance of my C5 A6 Avant over the newer XC70. I just cannot get excited over the look of the XC70. _

I continue to follow Saab's challenge to survive; so long term prospects are a concern. There are no 9-5 SportWagons in the US at this time. I have looked at, but not yet driven a 9-5 sedan. _I really like the look of the exterior and the interior. So, I am still interested in the new 9-5 SportWagon. The new Saab is a car that I can get excited about._

In closing, I parked my C5 A6 next to a Q7 today. *The Q7 is one very big and very ugly vehicle. I wonder what Audi was thinking when they designed and approved this car for production. *


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## paul99 (Oct 1, 2000)

eTh1nk said:


> *No, the A4 Avant is NOT an alternative. I definitely do NOT want a 4 cylinder Turbocharged engine.*


Mind if I ask why? It is a very good and very efficient engine and a regular on Ward's 10 Best Engines list.


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## vagmobile (Aug 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> ... or simply following him in traffic as he launches his *RS 6 Avant* company car into a four-wheel chirped launch near Audi of America headquarters, we've enjoyed witnessing his breakneck pace.


The arrogance of Mr. de Nysschen is unbounded. I guess it's OK for Johan, a foreign national, to drive a type of vehicle (i.e., station wagon) here in American that he says Americans don't want and that his company refuses to support in America. Makes perfect sense. :sly: I expect Johan to trade in his RS6 any day now for a bloated, ugly, snail speed Q7, since that's what the Audi corporate philosophy is nowadays -- "Zees silly Americans vant a big auto to haul zer big azzes. Ja, no station vagons for zem."



Johan de Nysschen said:


> So I regret no S6 Avant for the foreseeable future. Perhaps the forthcoming S7 might be an attractive alternative.


You know, the world operates upside down in his native South Africa, so that must account for some of Johan's inane responses. Yeah, an S6 Avant is comparable to an S7 -- that's like saying that because the new forthcoming R does not come with DSG that "perhaps a Q7 might be an attractive alternative" -- I mean, they both have hatches, right? :facepalm:


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*The Arrogance of Success*



vagmobile said:


> The arrogance of Mr. de Nysschen is unbounded. I guess it's OK for Johan, a foreign national, to drive a type of vehicle (i.e., station wagon) here in American that he says Americans don't want and that his company refuses to support in America. Makes perfect sense. :sly: I expect Johan to trade in his RS6 any day now for a bloated, ugly, snail speed Q7, since that's what the Audi corporate philosophy is nowadays -- "Zees silly Americans vant a big auto to haul zer big azzes. Ja, no station vagons for zem."
> 
> 
> 
> You know, the world operates upside down in his native South Africa, so that must account for some of Johan's inane responses. Yeah, an S6 Avant is comparable to an S7 -- that's like saying that because the new forthcoming R does not come with DSG that "perhaps a Q7 might be an attractive alternative" -- I mean, they both have hatches, right? :facepalm:


I really* appreciate* Mr. de Nysschen's communications with Audi enthusiasts in this forum.

However, I cannot agree more with the post about Mr. de Nysschen's *arrogance* in driving a vehicle, an RS6, that is not sold in the US. Then to suggest that the the A7/S7 is a "substitute" for an A6 Avant demonstrate that this *executive does NOT understand his customers*.

*In the end, my impression of Audi, especially AoA, has gone from positive to negative. This is NOT the type of company that I care to do business with going forward.*


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*Missing a Market Opportunity*

_

Audi has discontinued importing the A^ Avant to the US
BMW has discontinued the the 5-series wagon in the US
VW has discontinued the Passat wagon in the US
Volvo has discontinued the V70 wagon in the US
_

Audi, VW and Volvo sold European-designed, full-sized wagons for years. *So where does a buyer that wants a European-designed, full-sized wagons turn for a new vehicle? * I do not believe that these buyers really want an SUV.

The current choices for European-designed, full-sized wagons are left to the Mercedes E-class and the Volvo XC70. Possibly the Saab 9-5 CombiWagon (but this is scheduled to only be a 4 cylinder turbo in the US. I do not think that there is a market in the US for a $50,000 car witha 4 cyliner engine. I also question how much performance one would get from a 4,000 lb vehicle with a 4-cylinder engine. 

There is probably a significant market opportunity to capture these customers for the "traditional" European-designed, full-sized wagons. Look at all of the comments in this thread about the disappointment in no C7 A6 Avant in the US. Other Audi enthusiast forums have expressed similar sentiments about the lack of the C7 A6 Avant in the US. *It is really a good strategy to walk-away from all of these traditional Audi A6 Avant and allroad customers?* *How does this help to build US sales for Audi?*

*I think that Audi is missing an opportunity to retain these traditional customers and capture additional customers with the C7 A6 Avant.*

*Right now, Volvo is best positioned to win this "traditional market" for European-designed, full-sized wagons with the XC70.*:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

vagmobile said:


> The arrogance of Mr. de Nysschen is unbounded. I guess it's OK for Johan, a foreign national, to drive a type of vehicle (i.e., station wagon) here in American that he says Americans don't want and that his company refuses to support in America. Makes perfect sense. :sly: I expect Johan to trade in his RS6 any day now for a bloated, ugly, snail speed Q7, since that's what the Audi corporate philosophy is nowadays -- "Zees silly Americans vant a big auto to haul zer big azzes. Ja, no station vagons for zem."


FYI, the car's presence here was a gift from Audi AG. Johan blew past a sales goal for the market and they knew (being enthusiast-minded, much like me and much like many Avant lovers active in here) that he was keen on the RS 6 Avant. So they shipped one over for him to use as his personal car for a year. It's since been shipped back and he drives an A8.

Beyond that, you're making a lot of assumptions.



> You know, the world operates upside down in his native South Africa, so that must account for some of Johan's inane responses. Yeah, an S6 Avant is comparable to an S7 -- that's like saying that because the new forthcoming R does not come with DSG that "perhaps a Q7 might be an attractive alternative" -- I mean, they both have hatches, right? :facepalm:


You know, I get guests like Johan and Allan McNish before him on these forums because I believe our readers will act respectively. There are a lot of people who are arguing the points without attacking or slamming the person or their nationality. I'd appreciate it if you'd take time to do the same. Your opinion is welcome. Ignorant slams are not.

And FYI, S6 and S7 are on the same platform with same drivetrain. It's an honest answer for someone trying to get as close to an S6 Avant as they can since the S6 Avant simply doesn't have a business case here.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

eTh1nk said:


> However, I cannot agree more with the post about Mr. de Nysschen's *arrogance* in driving a vehicle, an RS6, that is not sold in the US. Then to suggest that the the A7/S7 is a "substitute" for an A6 Avant demonstrate that this *executive does NOT understand his customers*.


I mentioned the RS 6 in our intro (he had it over a year ago), because I thought it would help you guys understand he is an enthusiast as well. I've posted why it was here in the first place and I suspect most anyone here offered an RS 6 for a year to drive would take it. I think deeming the man arrogant for being an enthusiast in his tastes and a businessman in his professional actions is short sighted. Your job doesn't rely on long-term success of the brand. His does. Do you think he'd honestly drive it to a place of failure? I think the sales speak otherwise.

*In the end, my impression of Audi, especially AoA, has gone from positive to negative. This is NOT the type of company that I care to do business with going forward.*[/QUOTE]

So them reaching out to talk directly to enthusiasts was a bad thing? Bringing record numbers of S, RS and TDI models into the market is a bad thing?  Come on. Let's call this what it is. People want an Avant and they're annoyed its gone. It annoys me too, but I'd still rather see Audi successful than have a full range of Avants and have them in the tenuous position they were in during the era of your C5.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

eTh1nk said:


> _
> 
> Audi has discontinued importing the A^ Avant to the US
> BMW has discontinued the the 5-series wagon in the US
> ...


Do me a favor and test drive the 2.0T A4 Avant. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You sound like you're writing off that engine because it's just a four cylinder. It's got better power than your 3.0 and the B8 A4 is lighter than the B7.

And if you're still set on XC70, it's a fine car but you better hurry.... Volvo likely will not renew the car at the end of its lifecycle.


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I mentioned the RS 6 in our intro (he had it over a year ago), because I thought it would help you guys understand he is an enthusiast as well. I've posted why it was here in the first place and I suspect most anyone here offered an RS 6 for a year to drive would take it. I think deeming the man arrogant for being an enthusiast in his tastes and a businessman in his professional actions is short sighted. Your job doesn't rely on long-term success of the brand. His does. Do you think he'd honestly drive it to a place of failure? I think the sales speak otherwise.
> 
> *In the end, my impression of Audi, especially AoA, has gone from positive to negative. This is NOT the type of company that I care to do business with going forward.*


So them reaching out to talk directly to enthusiasts was a bad thing? Bringing record numbers of S, RS and TDI models into the market is a bad thing?  Come on. Let's call this what it is. People want an Avant and they're annoyed its gone. It annoys me too, but I'd still rather see Audi successful than have a full range of Avants and have them in the tenuous position they were in during the era of your C5.[/QUOTE]

I did not say, nor did I imply that communicating with your customers is a bad thing.

However, if you review this thread, there is a very consistent comment about the disappointment about the lack of Avants for sale in NA going forward.

*Not have product that your customers want to buy is a BAD thing. Walking away from your customers is a BAD thing. Disenfranchising long-term brand advocates is a BAD thing.
*
This does NOT make sense when you are trying to grow a market.


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Do me a favor and test drive the 2.0T A4 Avant. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You sound like you're writing off that engine because it's just a four cylinder. It's got better power than your 3.0 and the B8 A4 is lighter than the B7.
> 
> And if you're still set on XC70, it's a fine car but you better hurry.... Volvo likely will not renew the car at the end of its lifecycle.


*I do not want an A4 nor do I want a Turbo. There is no interest for me.*


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

eTh1nk said:


> I did not say, nor did I imply that communicating with your customers is a bad thing.
> 
> However, if you review this thread, there is a very consistent comment about the disappointment about the lack of Avants for sale in NA going forward.
> 
> ...


The problem with Avants is that they simply don't sell. Avant owners are very enthusiastic and very outspoken, but they aren't buying them in very high numbers or advocating that their friends buy them in very high numbers. Let's throw this back at you. Your taste in personal car is obvious. Let's say your job relies upon you picking the absolute correct mix for not just small growth but growing the brand to double its size in a few years with a limited budget. You pick what sells and what will get you there. Know that if you're ineffective you will likely be replaced. Do you still pick Avants?

I know what my answer would be. Much as I love Avants, I'd pick otherwise. As for measuring the effectiveness off the AoA team, the record growth speaks for itself.

This is one of their biggest conundrums. They want to please you Avant guys, but sometimes you can't please all of the people.


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> The problem with Avants is that they simply don't sell. Avant owners are very enthusiastic and very outspoken, but they aren't buying them in very high numbers or advocating that their friends buy them in very high numbers. Let's throw this back at you. Your taste in personal car is obvious. Let's say your job relies upon you picking the absolute correct mix for not just small growth but growing the brand to double its size in a few years with a limited budget. You pick what sells and what will get you there. Know that if you're ineffective you will likely be replaced. Do you still pick Avants?
> 
> I know what my answer would be. Much as I love Avants, I'd pick otherwise. As for measuring the effectiveness off the AoA team, the record growth speaks for itself.
> 
> This is one of their biggest conundrums. They want to please you Avant guys, but sometimes you can't please all of the people.


_

Audi has discontinued importing the A6 Avant to the US
BMW has discontinued the the 5-series wagon in the US
VW has discontinued the Passat wagon in the US
Volvo has discontinued the V70 wagon in the US
_

Audi, VW and Volvo sold European-designed, full-sized wagons for years. *So where does a buyer that wants a European-designed, full-sized wagons turn for a new vehicle? * I do not believe that these buyers really want an SUV.

The current choices for European-designed, full-sized wagons are left to the Mercedes E-class and the Volvo XC70. 

There is probably a significant market opportunity to capture these customers for the "traditional" European-designed, full-sized wagons. Look at all of the comments in this thread about the disappointment in no C7 A6 Avant in the US. Other Audi enthusiast forums have expressed similar sentiments about the lack of the C7 A6 Avant in the US. *It is really a good strategy to walk-away from all of these traditional Audi A6 Avant and allroad customers?* *How does this help to build US sales for Audi?*

*I think that Audi is missing an opportunity to retain these traditional customers and capture additional customers with the C7 A6 Avant.*


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## vagmobile (Aug 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> FYI, the car's presence here was a gift from Audi AG. Johan blew past a sales goal for the market and they knew (being enthusiast-minded, much like me and much like many Avant lovers active in here) that he was keen on the RS 6 Avant


Oh, so, Audi was able to ship over an RS6 Avant from das Vaterland, pseudo-federalize it to have it meet USDOT specs, have Johan joy ride in it for a year, and then ship it back, all because of one "enthusiast-minded" soul), but when the consuming public "enthusiast-minded" folk (that is willing to actually put money into the VAG coffer by buying said type of cars) start inquiring about Avants in Audi's future they are basically told to go fly a kite. Yeahhhhh... ummm...

EDIT: OK, so probably no federalization since the RS6 was brought here under the auspices of a "test" vehicle with the intent to bring the model to the U.S. (well, that's what AoA told the feds -- maybe the feds should look into this little mischaracterization :laugh



[email protected] said:


> You know, I get guests like Johan and Allan McNish before him on these forums because I believe our readers will act respectively. There are a lot of people who are arguing the points without attacking or slamming the person or their nationality. I'd appreciate it if you'd take time to do the same. Your opinion is welcome. Ignorant slams are not.


So my deleted post contained some ribbing in jest of Johan. Fine, qualify it as a slam, but that doesn't negate the fact that he comes across as an arrogant individual (i.e., Chevy Volt "idiot" comment) and that his view of Audi's buyers as a whole is misguided. Whether the latter is his fault or that of the marketing arm of Audi I do not know, so I can't fault him for that.



[email protected] said:


> And FYI, S6 and S7 are on the same platform with same drivetrain. It's an honest answer for someone trying to get as close to an S6 Avant as they can since the S6 Avant simply doesn't have a business case here.


Honest answer? Come now, really? So we're using the "same platform" argument now to equate a station wagon to an executive saloon? I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but it does come off, George, that you are being quite the Audi-apologist. If you provide full disclosure as to Audi perks provided to you, then I will accept your position as pseudo PR rep on this board, otherwise, I find it difficult for others to take your responses seriously.


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## paul99 (Oct 1, 2000)

eTh1nk said:


> _
> 
> Audi has discontinued importing the A6 Avant to the US
> BMW has discontinued the the 5-series wagon in the US
> ...


it is not only here in North America but in Europe people are moving from avants into SUV world, my uncle owns Audi dealer in Germany for 25 years , and he tells me that avants days are numbered , he told me that sells of avant in Europe getting smaller and smaller every year and started the decline in last 5 years , everyone wants SUV or something in that nature , everyone wants "adventure" in Jeep , everyone wants sport 3-door coupe, so manufactures are leaning toward giving people what they want, if manufacture doesn't stay ahead the competition then it is doomed , this is the world, and we can't change that, our voices do not count anymore , we can yell we can scream, the masses have voices and they are stronger


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

vagmobile said:


> Oh, so, Audi was able to ship over an RS6 Avant from das Vaterland, pseudo-federalize it to have it meet USDOT specs, have Johan joy ride in it for a year, and then ship it back, all because of one "enthusiast-minded" soul), but when the consuming public "enthusiast-minded" folk (that is willing to actually put money into the VAG coffer by buying said type of cars) start inquiring about Avants in Audi's future they are basically told to go fly a kite. Yeahhhhh... ummm...
> 
> EDIT: OK, so probably no federalization since the RS6 was brought here under the auspices of a "test" vehicle with the intent to bring the model to the U.S. (well, that's what AoA told the feds -- maybe the feds should look into this little mischaracterization :laugh


First, you're making a lot of assumptions. A LOT. YOU (not just Audi, YOU) can bring an RS 6 into the US market and drive it for a year so long as you either a) ship it out of the States after a period of 12 months or b) prove to NHTSA that the car has been destroyed. You may have problems insuring the vehicle with a normal car insurance company, but I believe Audi company-owned vehicles are self insured. If you want to bring it in for longer than a year, there are three options. 1) Get it on the list of importable vehicles by an authorized importer who is able to petition NHTSA (not all of them are, and this usually involves crash-testing a couple of cars), 2) establish it as an VERY, VERY rare show vehicle (mileage restrictions apply and no modern Audi production car qualifies as they're not rare enough), or 3) wait until it's 25 years old and bring it in. There are questionably legal ways around this but given Audi's prominence as a manufacturer, I'm certain they'd never consider these. Also, Audi regularly brings in non-US cars for testing like the S6 or RS 6 Avant sighted last week. 

Now, to bring in the RS 6 Avant (or any car) for mass sale (i.e. not your personal car or a single instance like the aforementioned RS 6), there are a LOT more things that need to be done including engine federalization, crash tests, fuel economy testing and federalization, etc., etc., etc.

Before you start accusing someone of breaking the law, you need to understand the rules that apply.



> So my deleted post contained some ribbing in jest of Johan. Fine, qualify it as a slam, but that doesn't negate the fact that he comes across as an arrogant individual (i.e., Chevy Volt "idiot" comment) and that his view of Audi's buyers as a whole is misguided. Whether the latter is his fault or that of the marketing arm of Audi I do not know, so I can't fault him for that.


I remember the Chevy Volt "idiot" situation quite well. Again, it helps to have perspective. This comment was not made in an official statement or even a public conversation such as this. It was made over dinner and a comment in casual conversation with a journalist. That journalist didn't have a recording with which to verify the exact statement and IMHO, that journalist was an idiot because when you publish private conversation stuff like that of any auto industry executive or contact, all you do is likely curtail their willingness to speak frankly their opinions in the future. As a journalist who relies upon such casual conversation for knowledge of things like the S4 going V6 supercharged two years ahead of its time and long before anyone else or the 4.0T being the next big performance engine as far back as 2008, printing a salacious comment such as that with zero perspective is irresponsible... but hey, that's me.

The basic context was that the Volt is essentially an expensive Cruze with more technology, but someone looking to save money by paying that premium over the Cobalt will never realize the savings in average ownership and thus the term "idiot". There's nuance to this, because an enthusiast (environmental in the case of a Volt, performance in the case of say an RS 4 owner over an A4) will pay a premium to make a statement or to enjoy a car with technology that may be unnecessary or at a premium that will never pay for itself. So nuanced difference, but it changes the tone considerably. Nevertheless, that journalist had his headline and the headline will continue to be quoted for years to come.

I'm not a fan of casting judgement without knowledge of the subject. We do it a lot in our public forums, on nearly every major news network, etc. This brings me to your next comment.



> Honest answer? Come now, really? So we're using the "same platform" argument now to equate a station wagon to an executive saloon? I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but it does come off, George, that you are being quite the Audi-apologist. If you provide full disclosure as to Audi perks provided to you, then I will accept your position as pseudo PR rep on this board, otherwise, I find it difficult for others to take your responses seriously.


You know, I wondered how long it would take for this suggestion to come up. Defending their position against a group of people who are very adamant about the Avant's value in the automotive schema, it was only a matter of time. So I thank you for bringing it up because I want to clarify my own situation.

Obviously this is a pro-brand site. I doubt you'll find me to be hyper critical of the brand given the context of my job, but I believe I'm willing to criticize where criticism is due. In the interest of full disclosure, Fourtitude and thus myself as its manager is afforded the same treatment as the major magazines including Road & Track, Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Automobile, Edmunds, etc. We attend launches, have access to test vehicles and long-term test vehicles. On top of that I do operate as a contractor to Audi with freelance writing on occasion to their owner magazine (Audi Magazine... US market) and do social media content for them for events such as the 24 Hours of Le Mans where I have knowledge of the event, team and relationships with drivers that allow me to provide perspective.

I do believe we at Fourtitude criticize where criticism is due and I don't try to hide that. We actually do try hard not to be simply a cheerleader or myself a fanboy for the brand though I'll admit my concentration on the brand is often mistaken for either of the above.

The simple fact here is that having the close relationship I do with Audi, I understand what they're up against. I understand what the market is doing when it comes to Avants despite however much I may prefer a wagon myself. I understand, because they're friends of mine, the challenges that product planners, usually enthusiasts themselves, must respond to when they give their proposals for the model lineup and what packages are offered. I believe this understanding helps Fourtitude to have a much better perspective for where Audi is going and even where they've been. 

Though I have known him since he started here in the USA, I must admit I have just recently begun to have a full understanding of Johan de Nysschen. I know that to those outside his circle he may be interpreted as arrogant, but for those inside there is a fierce loyalty and admiration for his leadership style, particularly in his ability to juggle both management in Germany and profitably grow in a VERY competitive luxury segment here in the States. What you may see as apologist on my part, I believe to be simply a perspective of understanding both Ingolstadt and Herndon, what they are doing and where they are going. 

That's what I'm trying to do here in continuation of the debate though largely I suspect all that needs to be said here has been stated, ad nauseum in my case. Hopefully it helped give you some more of their perspective and did so accurately.

In June we invited Allan McNish onto our forums and he was kind enough to join us. In July it was Johan de Nysschen. I fully intend to do more of these because I think it's a great resource to the readers. They aren't always going to say what you want to hear but I think exposure to enthusiasts such as the case with those pro-Avant in here, is not only enlightening to the enthusiast but also to the executive or whomever else is guest. I would like to do more and we'll try to target doing so on a monthly basis if we're able to pull off that cadence. 

What I'd ask, particularly in a case like yours vagmobile, is that you maybe temper your posts. I think it's fair to say that your original post would have been taken as a personal attack to anyone... Yes, you may have seen it in jest, but I'd ask you if you'd chide your boss or a loved one with that sort of jest. I doubt you would. If we're going to have guests in here, I'd ask that we all treat them with respect or else I doubt this will be a very long series indeed. You can disagree, even disagree vehemently... but you don't have to get personal.


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## maverickar15 (Mar 7, 2011)

When it comes time to replace my A3 sportback, it will be most likely Jetta SportWagen TDI with 6 speed manual. Here is an artist render for next revision










It is slightly smaller than A4 avant, and you do lose quattro but you still have 6 speed manual option. I wonder if they will add 2.0TSI engine option in the future to JSW.

This is of course, unless Audi brings A4 avant with 6 speed manual. In the end, I guess it doesn't matter where the $ goes because VW and Audi is in the same group.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

maverickar15 said:


> When it comes time to replace my A3 sportback, it will be most likely Jetta SportWagen TDI with 6 speed manual. Here is an artist render for next revision
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had a 2010 version of one of those buggers. biggest POS I've ever owned and VW treated me like dirt every time I brought it to be fixed, which was about 2x a month for the 10 months I owned the Meican built crapwagon. the car was crap, that Rube Goldberg TDI engine was crap, the giant sunroof abomination that kept falling off the tracks was crap, the front subframe with the constantly loosening bolts was crap, and the miserable glitchtastic touchscreen radio was beyond crap. Everyone knew these cars were crap and there were threads pages long about how they are crap on the TDI websites. 

But you know what? you put a stickshift wagon up for sale on those same websites and the bugger sells a few days later after a bidding war becuase you can't get a freaking stickshift wagon in this country. BMW, much to thier own shame and despite the warnings of the customer base has learned a nasty lesson about taking the wagons away and replacing them with focus group driven bastardizations like the 5GT. Audi makes more money per car than anyone, they can AFFORD to be ture to thier roots and offer the right cars, even if they don't sell a single one of them, there is purity to tilting at that particular windmill that is not missed by the fanbase.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> You know, I wondered how long it would take for this suggestion to come up. Defending their position against a group of people who are very adamant about the Avant's value in the automotive schema, it was only a matter of time. So I thank you for bringing it up because I want to clarify my own situation.
> 
> Obviously this is a pro-brand site. I doubt you'll find me to be hyper critical of the brand given the context of my job, but I believe I'm willing to criticize where criticism is due. In the interest of full disclosure, Fourtitude and thus myself as its manager is afforded the same treatment as the major magazines including Road & Track, Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Automobile, Edmunds, etc. We attend launches, have access to test vehicles and long-term test vehicles. On top of that I do operate as a contractor to Audi with freelance writing on occasion to their owner magazine (Audi Magazine... US market) and do social media content for them for events such as the 24 Hours of Le Mans where I have knowledge of the event, team and relationships with drivers that allow me to provide perspective.
> 
> ...


George, I know I've given you a TON of grief in the past for being an apologist of AoA, but I do want to say thanks for what you do and for getting us the opportunity to get the first hand to hear from the man himself. 

At the end of the day, I think we all got the point across over the wagon anger, and I was personally very suprised that the debate turned to wagons so quickly and emotionally. There will always be the faithful to one of the great specialties of the Audi brand, which is wagons. A string of MBA's and market research firms and accountants can explain the profit/loss considerations until they are blue in the face. The faithful don't care and they shouldn't have to care. Audi is supposed to be the innovator and the trend leader in the luxury field and we expect that of them. There IS a way to bring a wagon to market and make it profitable, and they need to find it. It doesn't matter if it's a low production vehicle loophole in the code or a European Delivery/"used car import" program or even just a special order program or, God forbid, a lesser profit, but Audi must make this happen or risk losing the brand cheerleaders.


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

Group buy on Avants?


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## wwhan (Apr 12, 2010)

Governments & Companies that ignore larges groups of very vocal, active & passionate people, do so at their own peril.

It would seem, that sending over at least one high performance Avant option to the US, would at least show an attempt to support the loyal long term Audi owner community.

As the move to better fuel economy becomes more mainstream, we may see some new interest in Avants, due to lower weight. The minivan, then SUV, then CUV is a cycle of popularity, but as with anything in this world change is constant.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

wwhan said:


> Governments & Companies that ignore larges groups of very vocal, active & passionate people, do so at their own peril.
> 
> It would seem, that sending over at least one high performance Avant option to the US, would at least show an attempt to support the loyal long term Audi owner community.
> 
> As the move to better fuel economy becomes more mainstream, we may see some new interest in Avants, due to lower weight. The minivan, then SUV, then CUV is a cycle of popularity, but as with anything in this world change is constant.


Unforunately, we're a large group of people on the interwebs, which means that in reality, we're just the most vocal people who can screw around on the web at work, not necessarily a 'large' group  

Still, I hope a bunch of us stamping our feet and saying we want wagons gets through, and hopefully the wagoneers at AoA are rooting for us and saying 'told you so!!' to the market research people upstairs. 

I have heard that BMW is thinking of bringing over the next 3 series wagon, but they are considering that instead of building it on the common sedan platform (3 series wagons are so small in the rump that they are nigh-hatchbacks by US standards) they are considering using the Chinese market long wheelbase 3 series. Hey, that's freaking brilliant! Audi has an A4L platform, too. Why not use it?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

FractureCritical said:


> George, I know I've given you a TON of grief in the past for being an apologist of AoA, but I do want to say thanks for what you do and for getting us the opportunity to get the first hand to hear from the man himself.
> 
> At the end of the day, I think we all got the point across over the wagon anger, and I was personally very suprised that the debate turned to wagons so quickly and emotionally. There will always be the faithful to one of the great specialties of the Audi brand, which is wagons. A string of MBA's and market research firms and accountants can explain the profit/loss considerations until they are blue in the face. The faithful don't care and they shouldn't have to care. Audi is supposed to be the innovator and the trend leader in the luxury field and we expect that of them. There IS a way to bring a wagon to market and make it profitable, and they need to find it. It doesn't matter if it's a low production vehicle loophole in the code or a European Delivery/"used car import" program or even just a special order program or, God forbid, a lesser profit, but Audi must make this happen or risk losing the brand cheerleaders.


Thanks for the note man? RS 4 Avant qualify for your idea? It's not been approved but I do know that it was being considered and may still be.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Rob Cote said:


> Group buy on Avants?


Haha. Awesome idea.


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## maverickar15 (Mar 7, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks for the note man? RS 4 Avant qualify for your idea? It's not been approved but I do know that it was being considered and may still be.


I would trade in both my STi and A3 for RS4 avant with 6 speed.


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## tdimeister (Feb 19, 1999)

> _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That all the above companies have discontinued wagons is PRECISELY why AoA should keep and introduce more Avants. It's called identifying and covering market niches and no business degree is needed to make that realization. Yes, there must be a profitable business case, but no company needs to set the market on fire with wagon sales. It just needs to put out a product that differentiates it from the field.


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## bzcat (Nov 26, 2001)

I'm in on the group buy for RS4 Avant should it materialize. I'll even accept a S4 Avant consolation prize.

BMW USA has been making suggestion that F31 wagon will actually return to the US. Originally, the 3 series wagon was slated to be replaced by 3GT but poor sales of 5GT has all but changed the calculus on the F31. So now it looks like BMW will continue to offer wagon in the US.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> RS 4 Avant qualify for your idea? It's not been approved but I do know that it was being considered and may still be.


get working on making that happen on your end.
I have enough paired organs to make that happen on mine.

Here's hoping for an RS4 Avant and that the Audi accessories catalog has a matching alacatra kiddie seat in it.


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## ky_soldier (Mar 15, 2009)

The Q5 has rendered the A4 avant needless.

If it were up to ME, I'd do the S4 engine/tranny in the Q5 and we would have a real winner, esp in light of the BMW X3 35i.


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## cebo0650 (Jun 26, 2010)

Maybe for you, but not everyone wants an suv like the Q5 or X3.

I for example see all suvs as useless.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

ky_soldier said:


> The Q5 has rendered the A4 avant needless.
> 
> If it were up to ME, I'd do the S4 engine/tranny in the Q5 and we would have a real winner, esp in light of the BMW X3 35i.


Q5 3.0T is in the works. I doubt it'll have S-tronic, but a version of 3.0T will likely replace the 3.2.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

cebo0650 said:


> Maybe for you, but not everyone wants an suv like the Q5 or X3.
> 
> I for example see all suvs as useless.


I prefer the Avant, but I still think the SUVs (or rather the crossovers) have their benefits. We just picked up a new 2011 Touareg TDI and its got a lot of redeeming qualities. It gets 28 mpg (TDI version), has great clearance in snow for winters in the north east, and handles surprisingly stiff and can corner well. In the recent episode of the Car Show, Matt Farrah mentioned his exit speed of a certain corner on their test track in the Cayenne Turbo with sport diff was identical to his exit speed in the R8 Spyder. I don't see them as a replacement, but they're also a lot better today then they've been in the past.


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## cebo0650 (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I prefer the Avant, but I still think the SUVs (or rather the crossovers) have their benefits. We just picked up a new 2011 Touareg TDI and its got a lot of redeeming qualities. It gets 28 mpg (TDI version), has great clearance in snow for winters in the north east, and handles surprisingly stiff and can corner well. In the recent episode of the Car Show, Matt Farrah mentioned his exit speed of a certain corner on their test track in the Cayenne Turbo with sport diff was identical to his exit speed in the R8 Spyder. I don't see them as a replacement, but they're also a lot better today then they've been in the past.


Let's not compare the Cayenne Turbo to the typical SUV 

It's not the handling the bothers me, because let's face it the the C6 A6 Avant is no sports car either, I just don't like the higher riding position, styling of SUVs and the fact that the will never be as good on gas as "station wagon" with the same amount of cargo and seating space. I too get tons of snow where I live and not once did I have any issues getting through deep snow with Quattro. All I'm saying is that everyone sees the benefits of SUVs.

BTW, looks like BMW has some brains and is considering bringing back the 5 Series wagon to the US. Why can't AoA be as smart? 

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/18/bmw-considering-bringing-5-series-touring-back-to-u-s-v12-to-s/


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

cebo0650 said:


> Let's not compare the Cayenne Turbo to the typical SUV
> 
> BTW, looks like BMW has some brains and is considering bringing back the 5 Series wagon to the US. Why can't AoA be as smart?
> 
> http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/18/bmw-considering-bringing-5-series-touring-back-to-u-s-v12-to-s/


AoA: Whatever happened to "Lead, Never Follow"


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*BMW is considering bringing 5 Series Touring back to U.S; Will Audi bring the the C7 A6 Avant to the US?*



tdimeister said:


> That all the above companies have discontinued wagons is PRECISELY why AoA should keep and introduce more Avants. It's called identifying and covering market niches and no business degree is needed to make that realization. Yes, there must be a profitable business case, but no company needs to set the market on fire with wagon sales. It just needs to put out a product that differentiates it from the field.


Interesting article in autoblog about BMW considering bringing 5 Series Touring back to U.S.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/18/bmw-considering-bringing-5-series-touring-back-to-u-s-v12-to-s/

*Will Audi follow BMW's lead and bring the new A6 Avant to the US? I hope that we have the opportunity to bu a C7 A6 Avant in the US!*


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## portweek (Apr 11, 2009)

*My Brand New A7 - Love it!*

Dear Johan:
A7 purchased 3 days ago, and simply love the machine. Outstanding vehicle. A couple of questions for you.

1. - Why would a vehicle of such a high capability be outfitted with audio options of such odd choices? Let me explain:

a) - The base stereo, which I opted for is "ok", but not in the league of what the A7 luxury brand is all about. Simply ok, but no cigar.
b) - The bose stereo comparison was a no contest as it had no base response, and was far inferior.
c) - The B&O was actually the worst of the lot; $6,000.00......please, for that price I expect this quality of stereo to be off of the charts. It was the worst of the 3, unless I was listening to Chopin or classical solely, not pop, rock, or any other genre calling for base.

In summary, why not look at the Acura TL for example, which sports the best stereo system in the marketplace for a very reasonable cost? Audi missed the mark on the stereo, and why would they not do something about this (I noticed the same thing in my wife's convertible A5, the cheapened sound system.

Please advise, and I am desperately trying to find the schematics for the stereo to try to "satisfy" my listening experience.

Thank you,
Sincerely
Joseph Slota


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

portweek said:


> Dear Johan:
> A7 purchased 3 days ago, and simply love the machine. Outstanding vehicle. A couple of questions for you.
> 
> 1. - Why would a vehicle of such a high capability be outfitted with audio options of such odd choices? Let me explain:
> ...


Interesting perspective. I'll make sure to pass it along. Thanks for sharing it.


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## GTaye (Nov 19, 2001)

Interesting.. the BASE stereo had the best BASS response. Joseph, do you BASE this opinion on listening to the BASS output of each?

Let me know. Right now, I'm going BASS fishing in the pond near the BASE of a hill.:laugh:


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

:laugh:



GTaye said:


> Interesting.. the BASE stereo had the best BASS response. Joseph, do you BASE this opinion on listening to the BASS output of each?
> 
> Let me know. Right now, I'm going BASS fishing in the pond near the BASE of a hill.:laugh:


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## jwestpro (Feb 6, 2008)

*missing the point*



[email protected] said:


> I'd agree with you if it were just Audi. I think the whole industry sees the trend though and thus this is not something unique to Audi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Maybe I'm missing the point, but I think you are George. The above statements just ruffle my feathers on so many levels! 

The A7 ONLY replaces a SEDAN, similar to how the BMW 5GT pulls away the 7 seeker. No, it's not a "7", but for the buyer who wants something "special", and nothing particularly useful, it works. For that buyer, it's "just a car". 

These new cars are not even close to being what a wagon can be. Only wagons should even be referred to as "sleepers". Everyone expects sedan-like cars to be potentially fast/quick, not a wagon, laden with bikes on a hitch or all over the roof with a cargo box. Does that A7 crap have a load leveling rear suspension so I could carry all my crap, 4 people, and all their crap, and not scrub the rear tires against the fenders? Well, my 535xi Touring 6 spd does! If Audi had continued bringing the big toys here, there would be an RS6 Avant outside instead of my BMW which is the current top contender for all season traction +fun fast hauling. 

Not loved any less, my 2008 Audi S4 Avant mt6 bought new is my partner's DD and she loves it! We love it, we wished the RS4 version had been available, but alas, the lowly S will do ! 

I'm going to end up being a wagon collector! 

RE: Mercedes Benz, doesn't anyone realize how long they have been selling wagons in the US? How many late 80's Audi sell for over $10,000? How many wagons? The 1987 300TD gets mid 20's MPG and can just about fit an A3 inside  Aside from it being RWD and less all conditions friendly for our travels year round in ALL weather, the MB E55/63 kicks butt. I don't even know how you can begin to mention the Cadillac, what a plasticy toy. What you rather be hit by a SEMI truck in?, the CTSV or and E63, RS6, S6, etc. 

Now, we have to wait yet another year to see if there is another Audi we'd be interested in, the RS5, but by then, we may have just forgotten about Audi being a contender. We don't need a large on the outside but small on the inside Q7, we don't need FWD small tdi A3 but we might like one if it were a FUN and more useful AWD or RWD, mt6 tdi, and "automatic" shifted TT cars, we wanted a TT, but then they went crappy too so we're left only with only a used market fuel guzzling 3.2 awd mt6 TT? 

We are currently looking at M5's and had considered an RS6 seriously, but if the RS5 doesn't come with a 6 spd manual, we're done with Audi for sure, forever.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

jwestpro said:


> Maybe I'm missing the point, but I think you are George. The above statements just ruffle my feathers on so many levels!


 I'm sorry I ruffled your feathers. Unfortunately, that's how the market is going. Crossovers are selling in high numbers. Cars like the A7 get more press (and sales) than the old A6 wagon. That's a reality not defined by you and not defined by Audi. 



> These new cars are not even close to being what a wagon can be. Only wagons should even be referred to as "sleepers". Everyone expects sedan-like cars to be potentially fast/quick, not a wagon, laden with bikes on a hitch or all over the roof with a cargo box. Does that A7 crap have a load leveling rear suspension so I could carry all my crap, 4 people, and all their crap, and not scrub the rear tires against the fenders? Well, my 535xi Touring 6 spd does! If Audi had continued bringing the big toys here, there would be an RS6 Avant outside instead of my BMW which is the current top contender for all season traction +fun fast hauling.


 My wife and I just bought a 2011 Touareg TDI. I'd prefer an A6 Avant but that's not the reality here, especially with TDI. We've been really happy with the Touareg. It actually handles much more aggressively than I'd expected and gets 28 mpg... the smallest 3.0 TDI offering in the States right now until Q5 comes out next year. Its quality is essentially Audi level. 



> Not loved any less, my 2008 Audi S4 Avant mt6 bought new is my partner's DD and she loves it! We love it, we wished the RS4 version had been available, but alas, the lowly S will do !


 RS 4 Avant is being considered for USA. This would be the ultimate car for the most serious Avant fans. 



> RE: Mercedes Benz, doesn't anyone realize how long they have been selling wagons in the US? How many late 80's Audi sell for over $10,000? How many wagons?


 Those are great cars to be sure. The problem is not that rarer older wagons hold their values and have a following. The problem is that new wagons do not have enough of a following and don't justify continuation under the current factors (outlined in my earlier post) to warrant continuation with limited product budgets and high costs of entry to the US market. The A6 3.0T quattro Avant (an awesome car) simply didn't sell well.


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*A6 Avant sales in the US Market -- How to ensure poor sales*

I am tired of hearing the excuse of "poor sales" for the reason to not offer the A6 Avant in the US. 



Over the past two years, AoA has marketed A6 Avant in the US as *"Limited Availability"*. This ensures limited choices at the dealer for the consumer. This is certainly detrimental for a $55,000+ purchase!  



Add in no marketing or promotions by AoA for the the A6 Avant  



If the US market is so bad for the A6 Avant, then why are dealers selling used 2011 A6 Avants at *more* than the original MSRP?  


If AoA is looking to compete with Mercedes and BMW for US sales, why would it concede this market segment?  

 

*This type of "marketing strategy" has to have a negative impact on consumer demand in the US market for the A6 Avant.* It really seems that AoA has managed this market segment to create a self-fulfilling prophecy! :screwy:


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Sorry man, the problem is greater than Audi and greater than America. This is industry wide and also happening in Europe.


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## eTh1nk (Aug 10, 2004)

*The market for the C7 Avant*

George: 

So why would Audi do this if: 



[email protected] said:


> the problem is greater than Audi and greater than America. This is industry wide and also happening in Europe.


 I could understand your explanation if Audi had NOT built a C7 Avant. However, Audi has invested in and introduced the new C7 Avant. Apparently there will also be an C7 allroad. 

*Why develop the C7 Avant platform if there is a limited for this model?*  

My understanding that in the UK, about 50% of the A6 market is for "Estate-class" vehicles. In the UK market, A6 Avants, S6 Avants RS6 Avants allroads are available with wide range of engine options. Imagine giving the consumer a "choice"; perhaps this explains why Audi estates sell well in the UK. 

Going back to the original thread, it appears that AoA believes that NA customers are only interested in SUVs. 

*I follow Fourtitude and other Audi Forums. Audi enthusiasts are universally disappointed in the lack of a C7 Avant. Do you really think A6 Avant / allroad owners are going to buy an A7 or a Q7?*


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

eTh1nk said:


> George:
> 
> *Why develop the C7 Avant platform if there is a limited for this model?*
> 
> My understanding that in the UK, about 50% of the A6 market is for "Estate-class" vehicles. In the UK market, A6 Avants, S6 Avants RS6 Avants allroads are available with wide range of engine options. Imagine giving the consumer a "choice"; perhaps this explains why Audi estates sell well in the UK.


 Clearly there is still a market for Avants in Europe (though it is also eroding) and clearly all of the European brands and many others still them for that market. The US is a challenge because there is a high cost of federalization or "homologation", the term used in this thread. Audi of America has a limited budget with which to homologate models. The Q7 outsold the A6 Avant by a wide margin when the two were on sale side-by-side and the A7 projects to do the same. 

Each of the wagon brands have weighed the value of continuing to sell a wagon here or not and as you see, they're disappearing in more dealerships than just Audi... or even just the Euros. You can make the argument for Mercedes, but they've got significantly higher sales volume in America... though I can't speak to their profit margin. You can make the Cadillac argument, but that brands seeks credibility in Europe and with European-owning American consumers and is thus an anomaly... though one wagon enthusiasts could and should take note of. 



> Going back to the original thread, it appears that AoA believes that NA customers are only interested in SUVs.


 This is an incorrect conclusion. I don't speak for them, but it's clear Audi believes it will grow its sales more effectively by building crossovers or cars like the A7 that will capture magazine covers and a broader collection of eyeballs because it's different and is winning over even non-wagon people. Clearly, as seen in this thread and Audi enthusiast forums all over the place, Avant fans still exist and are clearly passionate about their cars. Unfortunately that passion or perhaps those numbers don't equate to offsetting sales, and the Q7 vs. C6 A6 Avant 3.0T quattro is a clear example of this. Q7 sales trounced the A6 Avant though I'd have chosen the latter in that equation. I clearly don't speak for the majority with my own taste. 



> *I follow Fourtitude and other Audi Forums. Audi enthusiasts are universally disappointed in the lack of a C7 Avant. Do you really think A6 Avant / allroad owners are going to buy an A7 or a Q7?*


 I think they're banking that Avant enthusiasts will buy one of these two and stay within the brand. Some may. Some may not. I personally just bought a new vehicle. I considered the A6 Avant 3.0T but didn't want the old model because depreciation is a concern... not to mention that the C-segment is hard hit with depreciation and that's before you factor it being the outgoing generation. I went with the 2011 Touareg 3.0 TDI because my wife thought the Q7 was too big and the Q5 proved too small. I have access to depreciation data and I can see where the 2009 Q7 TDI value retention is versus the A6, so going TDI was a priority. Also, I've spent time in both the Q7 and the Touareg (2011 generation like mine) and they actually handle quite well. Crossover/SUV chassis and suspension engineering have come a long way. 

I suspect that there are Avant enthusiasts who will go elsewhere in order to stay in a wagon. I suspect there are also Audi and Volkswagen Group enthusiasts who like the material quality, build quality and engineering prowess and will go that route. I prefer the Audi/VAG hardware and am willing to deviate on bodystyle in order to stay in that. Also, I'm not alone. You may notice Rotiform wheels just swapped its A4 Avant for a Q7 project car. Quattroworld just took delivery of a Q7 TDI long-term car that they actually requested (i.e., car is provided by Audi as an evaluation vehicle but the choice of Q7 was that of Quattroworld's). I'm not saying crossovers are the be all end all and right for everyone... I'm just saying they may not be as bad as you think and will win over some Avant enthusiasts myself included. 

Yes, I wish I could get a C7 A6 Avant 3.0 TDI S-line. That said, I monitor the market closely in more than just the Audi niche and I think Audi would not be strategically wise to bring in that car even though it might be the one I'd most want in that Touareg's garage space. 

I see your point man. I do. The problem is that I also know the goals of the company (growth) and the factors facing them (federalization costs + American market tastes). It's not that I don't empathize. I'm simply trying to share the big picture to explain why execs like Johan aren't arrogant jerks who ignore the enthusiast. Johan is actually an enthusiast himself and Audi's push for expanded TDI and RS products in America are just two examples of evidence of this. With TDI and RS, they can achieve the goals more effectively through higher sales and/or higher brand awareness. And, maybe, just maybe, we'll see an RS 4 Avant.


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## portweek (Apr 11, 2009)

*Excessive Audi Brake Dust*

Why does the Audi experience get ruined by something as simple as "Excessive Brake Dusting". This is destroying our experience (and has hurt it a lot over the years) on both the 2010 A5 convert., and now my brand new A7.

Ceramics need to be retrofitted on these cars. Like going to a wedding, with a brand new Armani Suit...and wearing track sneakers after the 10K in the mud.

Help and what are you doing about this. Big problem for me!!!!
Thanks,
Joe


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## portweek (Apr 11, 2009)

GTaye said:


> Interesting.. the BASE stereo had the best BASS response. Joseph, do you BASE this opinion on listening to the BASS output of each?
> 
> Let me know. Right now, I'm going BASS fishing in the pond near the BASE of a hill.:laugh:


LOL.
I base this on seperate listening, bland first then adjusting individually and accordingly. I also base this on >50 years of being a musician, and around every type of stereo that one can imagine. If the B&O system was really that good (and it is not!!!), I would have considered (note the word considered, LOL) going for it. But in this case it isn't up to par according to my standards. 

Enjoy the bass fishing, as I don't enjoy the "Base" hissing, sounds like my fish are sleeping in the mud under a quilt .


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## portweek (Apr 11, 2009)

Johan de Nysschen said:


> The S3 and RS 3 are not offered in this market for homologation reasons. Thanks Chris.


Hello Mr. de Nysschen:
Please look at my posts regarding two important issues that I believe need to be fixed, and have plagued the buyer for years:

1. - Excessive brake dust (why not use ceramics, which has just as good a perfomance)?
2. - Stereo selections have an inferior sound, i.e. muddy base on base unit due to bad woofers, too excessive a cost on the B&O, fur a stereo that is prone to classical listeners mostly.

This would be a huge asset to Audi and the Customer experience. I own an A5 convert., and an A7. Both dust up....and both have terrible stereo selection choices.

Thanks for your response in advance. Love the cars, you do the right things engineering wise, but they seem to fall asleep at the switch with brake dusting solutions and stereo selection or choices. BTW, I bought the 20" rim and sport package for a reason. I feel like I went to the wedding in an Armani suit, and forgot that I had track sneakers on, after just finishing the 10K in the mud . Help!!

Thanks,
Joe


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Of course the Q&A session is over so he likely won't be answering any more questions but FYI on the brake dust thing, high steel content pads tend to dust heavily but initial bite (something the steel provides) is a quality most consumers request and dink manufacturers for in satisfaction surveys. On the other hand, a set of carbon ceramics would add a few more thousand dollars to the cost of your car. The easy answer is that if you don't mind giving up some of the initial bite then swap the pads out for something that dusts a little less.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry man, the problem is greater than Audi and greater than America. This is industry wide and also happening in Europe.


You know you say that , but BMW is most likely bringing back the wagon, MB is developing that lovely "Shooting Break" concept, Fisker just announced an in-development "shooting brake" version of the Karma, and there was another make bragging about developing a new wagon (Citroen maybe?). 

The way I see it, there's a lot of money going into wagons right now while Audi pulls away from them. Where Audi was once the avant garde brand (see what I did there?) they've either been playing it safe or showing up late to the new ideas party. The sedan cum coupe craze? Is audi showing up to that party after last call at the bar? 

Converting the A4 Avant into an A4 Allroad? Where is that supposed to takes sales from? The Outback (HA!) or the Q5? Has AoA development really degenerated to the point that they've started digging into their own old prodcts to resurrect a cult name with a tape-and-stripe package? How sad, and oddly evocative of the ever non-classic 1978 Ford Mustang Cobra. Perhaps the next bright move will be to add fake hood scoops on an A5 and adorn the cowl with a screaming chicken like a tired old Pontiac Firebird.

Audi is going to be last to the next party, too, if they don't get thier acts in order.


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## Adam Worth (Nov 23, 2011)

Very useful information. Helped me a lot with my problems.
Have a great day
_______
Adam
PVC Panels
Polyethylene Sheet


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