# mk4 8vt - MS2



## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

hello fellas, i've been having a bit of issues with my 8vt on megasquirt 2 v3 
background on the car, 

AEG stock bottom end with head spacer 9:1 
P&P with TT 276 
42# greentops 
50trim garret turbo .48ar 
Custom SRI 
MS2 v3 

Currently the car is running great, ive had tons of help from a friend of mine but we can't seem to figure out whats wrong with the rev limiter. Rev limiter is set to 7300soft cut and 7400 hard cut but the issue is that when under boost (wot) it cuts out at 5800. however when under partial thrttole (45%tps or so) it revs all the way up to where its suppose to. 
we are short of ideas of what could the issue be. if anyone has any input or anything it would be much apreciated it.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

Also forgot to mention this but we were messing with the Accel enrichment wizard we managed to raise the limiter at WOT to 6500ish but we cant figure out what else we could do to make it rev to the designated rev limiter. i'm including a screen shot of what some of the stuff looks like. 










thanks for any input :thumbup:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

i still think youre having some sort of boost control issue... 
the couple boost runs near the end of the file dont look right. boost drops off for no reason at 6100rpm. then the pull right after that it looks to me like youre hitting the boost cut. 

have you tried running the wastegate just off spring pressure?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

On that note make sure overboost fuel cut is off.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> i still think youre having some sort of boost control issue...
> the couple boost runs near the end of the file dont look right. boost drops off for no reason at 6100rpm. then the pull right after that it looks to me like youre hitting the boost cut.
> 
> have you tried running the wastegate just off spring pressure?


 haven't tried running just the wastegate off the spring pressure(which is 15) and also the boost cut is on but way above the limit of the map sensor or the boost pressure set by boost controller(18-19psi) 



need_a_VR6 said:


> On that note make sure overboost fuel cut is off.


 Weird thing is it revs to 7400 if i do partial throttle and we managed to raise from 5800 to 6500 by messing with acell enrichment but we aren't sure what else could be causing this. but i Will try to just running wastegate pressure. 


oh and when we were tuning we would hit boost cut and it sounded differently then when it drops once it hits 6500. It sounds more like if i was letting off the gas..?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Get some logs of it revving clean at part throttle and cutting at high load and post your msq as well.

Also make sure you are running a fairly tight plug gap on the stock coil.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Also make sure you are running a fairly tight plug gap on the stock coil.


 forgot about that, good call :thumbup:


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Get some logs of it revving clean at part throttle and cutting at high load and post your msq as well.
> 
> Also make sure you are running a fairly tight plug gap on the stock coil.


 Currently running msd coil and gap is at 26... Is that good or should i go smaller?


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

I Will get some logs part throttle in 3rd and fourth.. Its strange though but when Im doing logs, everything seems to freeze and not the entire pull shows up. but i Will def try my best.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

kevinescobar15 said:


> Currently running msd coil and gap is at 26... Is that good or should i go smaller?


 id go smaller, if it clears things up then start opening it up until you run into problems again. 

ive had to run some NA cars at 24... 

try 22 to start and see what happens


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> id go smaller, if it clears things up then start opening it up until you run into problems again.
> 
> ive had to run some NA cars at 24...
> 
> try 22 to start and see what happens


 Okay i will try that small. oh and quick dumb question need_a_vr6 said post the msq, Im not sure what that is and Im not really sure how to post the logs here but Im sure i can figure that one out.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The msq is the tune file, go to file, save as and BAM! there it is.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> The msq is the tune file, go to file, save as and BAM! there it is.


 oh yeah silly me. i have that already. so bad news, :banghead: i did the logs today and car started throwing ALOT blue smoke. i might of done something to the motor. i know my valve stem seals are worn out and i get a bit of blue smoke in the morning but now its throwing smoke more often and it puffs blue smoke when cruising also, but it goes away something... could it be, cracked rings, or piston, or the valve stem seals just went out all the way? :banghead:


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm not sure how to upload the logs here, need_a_vr6 if you want i can email them to you.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Sure kandpperformance at gmail dot com.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Sure kandpperformance at gmail dot com.


 email sent


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

the only thing that jumps out at me right off the bat on the part throttle logs is the ability of the thing to maintain boost and not spike when you do this at part throttle.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> the only thing that jumps out at me right off the bat on the part throttle logs is the ability of the thing to maintain boost and not spike when you do this at part throttle.


 Yeah. i don't understand..any ideas on what it could be? What i don't understand is why part throttle rpm is good but anything above 50% tps doesn't go above 6500.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Your MAP drops before the TPS does, most likely spark blowout as I don't see you losing sync or anything else odd there.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Your MAP drops before the TPS does, most likely spark blowout as I don't see you losing sync or anything else odd there.


 How can this be corrected?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

close up that gap, maybe try colder plugs for fun if that doesnt work...


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> close up that gap, maybe try colder plugs for fun if that doesnt work...


 So its nothing ecu related then? Im using the bkr7e. i Will try to close that gap once i figure out what i blew out. Then ill get back to it.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

There's nothing in the logs I see at all, it might be worth doing a tooth or composite log during a pull and see if there's lost sync that the ecu doesn't see. Also sent you a note over email about the AFRs, they are very strange.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

yeah i had no luck getting the AFRs to show up in the logs... anything other than apparently random numbers


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I was getting ~3-12afr in general, not sure why.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> I was getting ~3-12afr in general, not sure why.


 reason why is because the ground on the gauge is different than everuthing else on ms. however afrs under boost are good. varies from 10.8 - 11.7 



need_a_VR6 said:


> There's nothing in the logs I see at all, it might be worth doing a tooth or composite log during a pull and see if there's lost sync that the ecu doesn't see. Also sent you a note over email about the AFRs, they are very strange.


 When you say it might be worth doing a tooth what do you mean by that?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

kevinescobar15 said:


> reason why is because the ground on the gauge is different than everuthing else on ms.


 you need to fix that. the wideband stuff has to be grounded at the same spot as MS otherwise whatever numbers youre seeing can potentially be 1-1.5 points off...


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> you need to fix that. the wideband stuff has to be grounded at the same spot as MS otherwise whatever numbers youre seeing can potentially be 1-1.5 points off...


 I understand but we have the tune only based off of tps and the ve table. for now we aren't using the afr table.. Although i am changing the ground once i pull the head out since i need to replace piston rings.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

right, but the only way you know if that tune is correct is by either watching the AFR gauge, or using it as a feedback for autotune. 
in either case it could be leading you down the wrong path if its off


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> right, but the only way you know if that tune is correct is by either watching the AFR gauge, or using it as a feedback for autotune.
> in either case it could be leading you down the wrong path if its off


 yeah we have been using the gauge and the gauge is good, the only down side to not having the ground where ms is grounded is that on the computer it shows something different. soon ill be fixing that, that way we can start using AFR's to tune better. 

So, today i was checking what the issue was with the car throwing so much smoke after doing those logs and came up with this... 

Comp test: 
Cylinder one: 140 
Cylinder two: 145 
Cylinder three: 146 
Cylinder four: 147 

Also spark plugs come out clean, no oil residue. 

So now, i'm thinking that the valve stem seals just went out on me all the way. The car was already smoking a little in the morning but now its more constant but it kind of freaked me out when i saw that much smoke after those few pulls. 

Re-gaped spark plugs to 25 and now ill see what that does to the RPM


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You wb cant even read 3afr on gas, something else is up. You using the narrowband output to the ms without changing it in lm programmer?

In any case without afr reading right in the logs its hard for random guys on the internet to help withkout asking, wtf is up with the afr a bunch!


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> You wb cant even read 3afr on gas, something else is up. You using the narrowband output to the ms without changing it in lm programmer?
> 
> In any case without afr reading right in the logs its hard for random guys on the internet to help withkout asking, wtf is up with the afr a bunch!


 Yeah sorry about that.. ill fix it asap and get back to you guys, i just thought maybe there was something else up with it that you guys could see wrong with the msq


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

Hey, sorry for the delay in the response. so the issue wasn't anything ecu related. everything pointed out to be the wastegate. faulty wg. if i run it with out the boost controller, just off of the wg spring (10psi) then it revs smoodly up.to 7400. Currently im running 14psi and it seems to hold good but i can't go any higher. now is the time to buy a new wastegate.

Now my other question is, i have been looking into adding an idle stabilizer but im not really sure where to start from? From what car can i get it out of that is compatible and easy to use with ms. if you guys have any thoughts on this, would be great appreciate it.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

2 wire from an aba or vr6 is about as simple as it gets.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

Does it hook up straight to ms through a pin or how would that work? I'm clueless when it comes to isv's systems.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

kevinescobar15 said:


> Does it hook up straight to ms through a pin or how would that work? I'm clueless when it comes to isv's systems.


You'd hook switched 12V to pin 1 of the ISV and the FIDLE wire to pin 2. This does assume that your board has a TIP 120 mod done to it. What are you using for a throttle body? ( there might be easier cleaner ways)


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

True if hes using an obd2 dbc throttle body there is the option of using the integrated one.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

Prof315 said:


> You'd hook switched 12V to pin 1 of the ISV and the FIDLE wire to pin 2. This does assume that your board has a TIP 120 mod done to it. What are you using for a throttle body? ( there might be easier cleaner ways)


Im using an obd1 vr6 tb. I was always told that i couldn't use the ob2 because it was too complex and ms wouldn't support it. i do have an ob2 tb that i could use if that would be easier.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

kevinescobar15 said:


> Im using an obd1 vr6 tb. I was always told that i couldn't use the ob2 because it was too complex and ms wouldn't support it. i do have an ob2 tb that i could use if that would be easier.


Well Paul has gotten the OBD2 TBs to work and I'm in the process of getting one dialed in on my car with MS3. That will be a much cleaner install especially with a turbo. Regardless of which way you go the mainboard Fidle circuit will need the TIP 120 mod.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

And after doing that mod then just run the extra cables to ms? And did Paul get it dialed in with ms1, ms2, or ms3?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I got it to work on ms1 with 100hz and Jeans multiplier board set to 5 or 6x and on ms2 straight at 200hz.


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## kevinescobar15 (Apr 27, 2010)

I will try and give that a shot. only problem is that i have to change the flange on my sri to fit the obd2 tb and mod the board. :banghead:


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