# 2001 A6 2.7T Reliability Question - Noobie



## maseru-man (Mar 17, 2008)

Hi all,
First time poster - long time car fan. At least 20 years as an Autoweek reader. Visited Audi, Ingolstadt 4-5 times on business - always fun.
I hope my question is not sac religious - but I have an opportunity to get a 2001 Audi A6 2.7T-auto very inexpensively. The car has ~90k, one owner, maintained by the dealer, oxy sensors replaced in the last year. The driver is not a hard driver.
My decision - which will be less expensive over the next couple of years - a '95 Subaru Legacy L with 145k (today) or the 2001 Audi A6 2.7T with 90k(today)? Obviously I WANT the 2001 Audi A6 2.7T but what I've read about the reliability of the A6 scares me!
Mostly negative reviews on Edmunds here http://www.edmunds.com/audi/a6....html
I read one review that offered a strategy to deal with the costs - a good mechanic and eBay.
I'd appreciate your perspectives.
I'd love the car - I just can't afford $2-3k surprises. I'd probably have to dump the car if that happened.
Thx,
m-m


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## Snowhere (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: 2001 A6 2.7T Reliability Question - Noobie (maseru-man)*

Well if you can not afford to replace the turbo's, you should probably stay away. Audi's are not unreliable cars, if you maintain them. If you just drive and ignore problems until something breaks, then you will think the are unreliable. With proper maintenance, you could easily see 200,000 miles with out a problem. It is hard to believe any one that buys a 2.7T bought it to baby it. If he is letting it go cheap, he probably thinks the turbos are on their way out. Still, if it was cheap enough, just plan on upgrading the turbos and you will be good to go.
I just traded up from a 99 Outback and even through it was not a bad car, I hated it and could not wait to get rid of it. The boxers are a pita to work on, are noisy, uncomfortable and do not get great gas mileage. I could get the Outback to swap ends on wet or snowy roads easily with good snow tires on it. The awd system is a 80/20 split and does not compare to a Quattro in any way. I took my Quattro out in the snow last night, and even with crappy tires on it, it was pretty sure footed. I got snows on order and should have them on by Wednesday.


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## maseru-man (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: 2001 A6 2.7T Reliability Question - Noobie (Snowhere)*

Snowhere,
Thanks for you reponse!
Re: "If he is letting it go cheap, he probably thinks the turbos are on their way out. Still, if it was cheap enough, just plan on upgrading the turbos and you will be good to go."
It' not that he's trying to dump the car - it really more of a gift - the actual price is a formality - as far as he knows - the car is fine.
Useful insight about replacing the turbos - from other posts that sounds like ~$2500 or less.
Thanks,
m-m


_Modified by maseru-man at 6:51 AM 5-6-2008_


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## Massboykie (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: 2001 A6 2.7T Reliability Question - Noobie (maseru-man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maseru-man* »_... The driver is not a hard driver...

Hey Maseru
These motors get a bad rap when people abuse the crap out of them and then expect them to last as long as a normally aspirated motor. Any motor with a turbo requires just a little more pampering than a NA motor. 
Two biggest things are probably …
Good oil (synthetic), on time, period. If you beat on her a little, drive her around the block so you don't park her with hot oil.
There are some seal problems, but if you are in a position to do this work yourself, these fixes are not nearly as expensive, although parts-wise it will probably be more than on the Subaru. If you are planning to take the car to the dealer to get stuff fixed, expect the cost to skyrocket. If the car was looked after the turbos should be fine for a while still, but there is always the chance though. Also, keep in mind, replacing the turbos at a dealership will be insanely expensive.. my A6 was there for 5 days... and they still screwed stuff up... next time I'll do it myself, end even if it takes me a month, I will know it was done right. 
FYI, my turbos were dead at 30K. I had the car for 3 days and the OIL light came on, she was empty... and yes, this was after the 300 point CPO inspection... so knowing how a car was treated counts a lot IMHO.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Massboykie


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## zebinheimer (Oct 3, 2006)

massboykie can not be more right. i can not emphasize turbo care more... let the turbos/oil cool. I.E. sit there for 10 seconds before you get out of the car bair minimum, or just get a turbo timer if youre in a rush all the time.


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## maseru-man (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: (zebinheimer)*

Thanks all for your replies! I really appreciate your perspectives and have a few more questions that I hope you'll take the time to help me with as I make a decision.
I really, really want to get the A6-2.7T - and now I need to decide by Friday - 5 days and counting! And now there is a 2003 Honda Accord EX 4-cyl-auto with 50k and as option. Clearly the Honda is the most sensible option (it'll cost me more than the Audi - about 2x ) but I think driving the Honda would be automotive enthusiast purgatory








But a few more questions about the Audi 2.7T:
1. 
_Quote, originally posted by *Massboykie* »_... here are some seal problems, but if you are in a position to do this work yourself, these fixes are not nearly as expensive, although parts-wise it will probably be more than on the Subaru. 
 Which seal? How much work to replace them? I'm pretty mechanically inclined. 
2. Do you use a service manual to help you do the work?
2a. Do you use or recommend the AUDI A4 A6 A8 1999 2000 2001 2002 SERVICE REPAIR MANUAL 
3. Any exotic tools?
4. What about the other Audi 2.7T issues - specifically:
a. continual oil leaks
b. replacing every gasket and seal replace on the engine, drive train and power steering
c. cam seals, valve cover gaskets, temperature sensor, door lock, instrument cluster, HID ignitor, radio, power steering pump, front brake rotors.
d. strange goings on with the interior lights
e. engine failures, electric windows, leaks
5. What kind of gas does the A6-2.7T need? Can it take regular?
BTW - I think I'll keep my Subie whether I get the A6 or the Honda - as llong as the insurance is not insanely prohibitive.
I'd really appreciate your thoughts on the above!
Thanks,
m-m


_Modified by maseru-man at 7:20 PM 3/23/2008_


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## Snowhere (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (maseru-man)*

The only manual you should buy is the Bently.
http://www.bentleypublishers.c...=a604
Yes there are some specilized tools, depending on what you are doing.
Gas required at sea level will be premium.
Someone else will have to chime in on everything else, but I do not know of any real problems outside of ABS modules like to go.
Bottom line is I would much rather drive the Audi then the Honda any day.


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## maseru-man (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: (Snowhere)*

I'm getting the Audi ! I pick it up on Friday.
I also may have found myself a local Audi specialist: Greg's Repair Service - Natick, MA . So maybe that will help mitigate some of the the maintenance risks & costs!
Let the next chapter begin!
Thanks all!
m-m


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## Massboykie (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: (maseru-man)*

Hey Meru
Seals... I had my valve cover gaskets replaced and also the Cam seals (thank god for CPO). I've heard of some guys with crank seals, but I am not sure if this is a common problem. When you replace the Cam seals and the valve cover gaskets, look at the PCV valve, I think I read somewhere that it gets clogged over time and then causes premature (







) seal failure.
Good luck with the car man! You won't regret it! Now all you need is a chip....








Just for interest sake... where did you find out about Gregs? 
P.S. Nope no regular... only the good stuff...

Cheers
Massboykie


_Modified by Massboykie at 3:39 PM 3-26-2008_


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## maseru-man (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: (Massboykie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Massboykie* »_Just for interest sake... where did you find out about Gregs? 
P.S. Nope no regular... only the good stuff...

Google for Greg's. Found some forum listing Audi mechanics. Then I called him up. I'm thinking of taking the car to him when I get it to look it over.
Do I HAVE TO use super? Can I get away with regular? I'll search the web for answers to that one - to know the trade-offs.
m-m


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## Snowhere (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (maseru-man)*

Super will be a must for the twin turbo. Less can cause detonation and the knock senser will start retarding the timing, thus reducing power. I can get away with less octane, but I live and commute between 8000 and 11000 ft above sealevel. Down at sealevel you are out of luck on the gas.


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: (Snowhere)*

From my experience in turbo cars.... (even though I don't have a 2.7t....yet) is that the ECU may be able to prevent damage from running regular, *BUT* it decreases fuel economy and power. I have the best performance and economy running premium. I did some math once and it was actually cheaper to pay the extra .20 per gallon. Don't be afraid to get it, it's not that much more expensive, Maybe $3/fill.


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## stirofechos (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: (maseru-man)*

Hey guys,
I'm just chimming in on the same thread. I have a 2002 Max and a 200 VW. Know nuthing about cars besides regularly making the oil change without fail. Both the cars are running perfectly so far (120K & 145K respectively).
I was looking around in the market for an used Audi and found an 2001 A6 2.7 AWD with 131 K miles. I definitely understand that the miles are just way to high, but the car (atleast to my eyes) looked to be in tip top shape. Took it to a nearby Meinekee shop to take a look, and besides changing the front brake pads and rotors (which is also showing up in the dash LED), he didn't find any other issues.
But offcourse he didn't open it up fully to see what else can be wrong. But he did warn me multiple times that old Audi's are the worst in reliability and can cost a mini fortune to get them fixed.
Everyone in this forum has mentioned that it helps tremendously if the car was well maintained (synthetic oil change and premium fuel etc), but is there any way to figure out what the previous owners did and how they took care of it. Carfax shows that the car started out as a lease and Audi took it back when it had 52K miles on it.
I'm so much torn as to turn this Audi away. But what would you guys suggest. Should I take it to Greg's shop and get it fully rechecked.
Thanks guys.


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## Snowhere (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (stirofechos)*

Barring maintenance records, the only thing you can do is closely look over the car and engine. look at the oil. I check to see how the oil looks on the dipstick and in the valve cover. I popped the oil cap on the valve cover on a 1.8T A4 I was looking at and I could see foamy, grey, sludgy looking stuff on the cap. This to me was a sign that the oil had not been changed regularly enough. However, some one who had a clue could just change the oil and clean the cap before putting a car up for sale and you would never know the difference. Must people who are lazy about car maintenance will not think to do this, so it should be a clue on how the vehicle was driven. Also look for little oil leaks that have been going on for a long time without being fixed. Once again it should tell you how it was taken care of. Likewise look to see when the timing belt/waterpump was replaced. If it was done at 75k, great. 75K to 90k, not bad. over 100k a procrastinator for sure. If it has not been done at all, bad! All this just should give you a idea on how it was take care of.
Good luck!


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## 2035cc16v (May 18, 2000)

*Re: (maseru-man)*

its a good car, taken care of youll have no problems. I also recommend Brians Garage in Needham.


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## maseru-man (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: 2001 A6 2.7T Reliability Question - Noobie (maseru-man)*

Hi all,
So an update on my 2001 A6 2.7T.
I picked it up from Sarasota a couple of weeks ago with 90,500 miles on it.
It had been serviced the day before - courtesy of my father-in-law - #1 good guy.
I drove it to Boston in 2 days ~ 1700 miles. It has a little over 93,500 now. I guess it's time for an oil change. I'm thinking of heading over to Greg's. BTW - I spoke to Greg and he said the whole letting the engine cool down due to the turbo is a non-issue. He'd not seen any turbo problems with that motor.
The car is a delight to drive. I love the wooshing sound it makes. I am a longtime driver of manual transmissions - but I've easily transitioned to the auto (I rarely use the tip-tronic). I'd prefer a 5 speed - but what are you going to do?
Gripes - gas mileage is 17-18m mpg - argh. I've been going with plus 50% of the time and premium 50% of the time. My problem is I'm a big fan of back roads which leads to lower mileage. On Highway I probably get 20-23. I'm still working out how accurate the computer mpg is versus my hand calculation at fill ups. I try to take more highways now.
The other gripe - very minor - the display of the computer in the dash seems to be missing about 1/4 of the lines of resolution.
The car has enough scrapes and dings so that I don't feel like I'm driving a new car and hence - no worrries. A good thing.
The kids adore the heated back seats.
I still haven't sold my Subaru - just dropped $600 to get it all fixed - runs great - an excellent car. We'll see. Keep for ~800-900 year in insurance and registration or sell? Then buy another car in 18 mos for my then newly licensed teen? Keep? Sell? Keep? Sell? I dunno.
Thx,
m-m



_Modified by maseru-man at 7:10 AM 5-6-2008_


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## Snowhere (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: 2001 A6 2.7T Reliability Question - Noobie (maseru-man)*

Sounds good. I actually use the tip a lot, but since I have the 2.8, I need to downshift when I want to pass quickly. Plus I am going over a mountain pass everyday going to work and back. So I tend to leave it in 4th going up the pass to maintain my speed. Then comeing down the pass I try and coast when I can! I coasted 15 miles once, maintaining my speed the whole way and I was able to bump my average mileage to 26mpg. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I would still let the car 2.7T idle for 30 seconds if you were driving spiritedly. If you are taking it easy for a few miles before stopping, then you are probally ok to shut her down. Your mechanic probally has not seen it be a issue due to most that go for the A6 tend to be older and do not thrash on their cars like the younger A4 1.8T crowd. It all depends on how hard you push the car. If you do push it, shutting down quickly will heat soak the turbos as they still have a lot of latent heat in them, but you just shut off the cooling. They will actually get hotter after being shut down in this situation.


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## Massboykie (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: 2001 A6 2.7T Reliability Question - Noobie (maseru-man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maseru-man* »_....gas mileage is 17-18m mpg - argh. ...

Hey Mas
That is a little lower than what I get, but I use the good stuff (have to as I am chipped) and I might get some extra miles with the manual. The auto always uses a little more. Not sure why.
I get about 19 or so to work and back. ...mostly "back roads" and some "highway". Better if I can stop myself from "leaning on her", but it's just so much fun!







On the highway at 55-65 I think it will be over 25, but I cannot drive that slow... unless there is a ton of traffic..







So I am usually at around 23 or so..
Congrats on the car though!
Cheers
Massboykie
P.S. I know people always say that the ECUs on modern cars will adjust the timing when lower grade fuels are used etc... But with a turbo car these differences become more important as the car relies on the more stable (better) fuel. The way I look at it... If the manufacturer tells you to use a certain grade fuel with a certain motor... then use that grade... If the car can take regular, there is no need to spend more! My 2c


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## maseru-man (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: 2001 A6 2.7T Reliability Question - Noobie (Massboykie)*

Hi all,
I haven't looked under the car yet and I'm sitting in my office - so...can you tell me if I need an Audi specific tool to change the oil filter on an A6 (2001 2.7T)?
Thanks.
Victor


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