# Piston DV not as bulletproof as we thought? DV cracking?



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Just browsing the Forge Motorsport site.... and noticed:

http://forgemotorsports.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=&product=FMDVRTSi









http://forgemotorsports.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=&product=FMFSITAT









When I replaced my piston DV with an AWE-Tuning one.... didn't notice any damage on the piston DV, no where near the extent to damage posted on Forge's website....


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## bwoodahl (Dec 13, 2007)

Bizarre. I'm trying to imagine how these sort of failures could occur?


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

bwoodahl said:


> Bizarre. I'm trying to imagine how these sort of failures could occur?


Somehow the plastic is smacking hard on the compressor housing opening when it closes....

still, have to wonder how Forge has seem to documented the issue....

could be other TSI engines.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Too bad they don't show failures of their own valve on their website. Frankly, those piston valves look pristine, as if they were never installed in cars. Go figure no one else has reported a failure like this, but Forge conveniently has it up on their website :screwy:

Dave


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

Its hard to sell performance parts that perform worse than the OEM part you are replacing UNLESS the OEM part is at least failure prone.


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## FMX_DBC (Feb 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Its hard to sell performance parts that perform worse than the OEM part you are replacing UNLESS the OEM part is at least failure prone.


Hint hint  lol


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## teejers (Mar 6, 2009)

BsickPassat said:


> Somehow the plastic is smacking hard on the compressor housing opening when it closes....
> 
> still, have to wonder how Forge has seem to documented the issue....
> 
> could be other TSI engines.


it says on their page it is from a 1.4 TSI twincharged engine. might make a difference in comparison to the 2.0t? just thought it may be pertinent info.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Its hard to sell performance parts that perform worse than the OEM part you are replacing UNLESS the OEM part is at least failure prone.


That's weird....

Never heard of the factory turbo failing....

But i guess you know better.


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## Banned 4 Life (Jan 25, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> That's weird....
> 
> Never heard of the factory turbo failing....
> 
> But i guess you know better.


OOoooHHH SNAP! I've had my forge valve for more than 2yrs now, NEVER had even the smallest issue with it. The best part is my dv isn't going off every 2 seconds and dropping my boost with just the smallest of deviation in pedal pressure. :thumbup::thumbup: for Forge's valve. Solid product, well built and designed.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2005)

Ah, what would we do without Keith and Crew attacking forge? Good to see all is right in the world  I was beginning to worry that you guys had forgotten about us... where is the third stooge? Arin!

We've served literally thousands with our replacement valves and the only real complaints usually come from APR's camp, not hard to figure that one out. Carry on guys I don't care to engage you fellas, it's much ado about nothing.

To the would be consumer, we offer a replacement if you like, and the newer d stye piston valve is indeed quite stout and failures are rare. Our parts all include a lifetime warranty that is transferable and our industry leading support is always there if you should need it.


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## eatonrabbit. (Apr 16, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Its hard to sell performance parts that perform worse than the OEM part you are replacing UNLESS the OEM part is at least failure prone.



I will say that I am running the latest upgraded DV from VW at Stage 2+ with no issues thus far.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Ah, what would we do without Keith and Crew attacking forge? Good to see all is right in the world  I was beginning to worry that you guys had forgotten about us... where is the third stooge? Arin!
> 
> We've served literally thousands with our replacement valves and the only real complaints usually come from APR's camp, not hard to figure that one out. Carry on guys I don't care to engage you fellas, it's much ado about nothing.
> 
> To the would be consumer, we offer a replacement if you like, and the newer d stye piston valve is indeed quite stout and failures are rare. Our parts all include a lifetime warranty that is transferable and our industry leading support is always there if you should need it.


Funny how APR bashes other companies products even if they don't have a competing product themselves.

Maybe Forge should develop turbo kit and start bashing APR... :laugh:

But i guess there would be no competition then since Forge's products DELIVER what they promise.


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## eatonrabbit. (Apr 16, 2009)

GolfRS said:


> Funny how APR bashes other companies products even if they don't have a competing product themselves.
> 
> Maybe Forge should develop turbo kit and start bashing APR... :laugh:
> 
> But i guess there would be no competition then since Forge's products DELIVER what they promise.


Not to take away from Forge one bit. I've heard nothing but great things about their products. However, there is a HUGE difference between making DV's, IC's, and other misc boost parts that mostly appear to be resells AND developing your own tuning software and turbo set ups, as APR does. Compared to other companies that offer tunes APR provides the most aggressive, reliable, and highest out put out there, as I found in my research of which company to go with for my 2.0t. 

I base this on and only on the 2.0t tunes as I have not researched any other engine set ups aside from 1.8t's and for those I really like what Revo does. 

just my ramblings aka my .02


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

GolfRS said:


> Funny how APR bashes other companies products even if they don't have a competing product themselves.
> 
> Maybe Forge should develop turbo kit and start bashing APR... :laugh:
> 
> But i guess there would be no competition then since Forge's products DELIVER what they promise.


Yeah, I know right. Maybe because its not bashing.

Also, every product we sell performs as advertised.

You can't prove that wrong.

All the evidence in the world about replacing electronic dv's with vacuum dv's and the poor results is readily available on these forums and has been for years.

You are the one doing the community a disservice by ignoring the imperical data and promoting sales of a product that does not actually improve anything, unless of course, as I stated originally, the OEM plastic dv is failure prone as well.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2005)

All of that is far from true, but here's the thing Keith. I know that Revo makes more power and is more versatile and adaptable, I've personally measured it on the dyno more than once... it's just that it's bad form to go around thrashing other companies. Period. I don't go into threads about apr and do this, but it's about 50% of what you and the other apr rep do. Even if our valve offered no performance gains it isn't your place to say so...let alone go out of your way every chance you get to attempt to discredit us. I don't point out the lack of gains with the fsi carbonio, no performance to be had there, just exists to showcase carbon fibre. Or how grossly overpriced your turbo kits are. I could bring them to market and partner with one of the other software companies to beat you on both power and price but it's not our market nor do we care to get into it. Now why don't you go concern yourself with your market, grow up and leave us alone. You're not even having an effect, it's a waste of time and it's working against you.
You are not here to police what the other advertisers are doing and selling unless it's a violation of the forum rules, in which case it should be reported to a mod.





[email protected] said:


> Yeah, I know right. Maybe because its not bashing.
> 
> Also, every product we sell performs as advertised.
> 
> ...


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

GolfRS said:


> That's weird....
> 
> Never heard of the factory turbo failing....
> 
> But i guess you know better.


I've also never heard of APR selling K03s. What's your point with this one?


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## TTAdict (Aug 3, 2010)

*Forge Quality*

I have to say that I have tried Forge products for years and they deserve every dollar spent on them. For example I lately bought from them:

For my Audi TT mk2 2.0 TFSI: Twintake, twin intercooler, throttle body pipe, valve relocation pipe, vacuum hoses and oil catch can.

For Peugeot 207 RC Turbo (same engine as Mini S): boost pipes, silicone hoses, intercooler, and intake hoses.

Their products are not questionable.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

TBomb said:


> I've also never heard of APR selling K03s. What's your point with this one?


Well Keith said aftermarket products should be made to replace failing ones.

So if it is only a case of "reliability" and not performance, why is APR selling turbos ?

I can tell you i notice a BIG difference in boost response when moving to the Forge DV.

That has nothing to do with how good or bad the OEM "D" DV is, and there was nothing wrong
with my stock DV to begin with.

Maybe you should try it out and see for yourself.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> All of that is far from true, but here's the thing Keith. I know that Revo makes more power and is more versatile and adaptable, I've personally measured it on the dyno more than once... it's just that it's bad form to go around thrashing other companies. Period. I don't go into threads about apr and do this, but it's about 50% of what you and the other apr rep do. Even if our valve offered no performance gains it isn't your place to say so...let alone go out of your way every chance you get to attempt to discredit us. I don't point out the lack of gains with the fsi carbonio, no performance to be had there, just exists to showcase carbon fibre. Or how grossly overpriced your turbo kits are. I could bring them to market and partner with one of the other software companies to beat you on both power and price but it's not our market nor do we care to get into it. Now why don't you go concern yourself with your market, grow up and leave us alone. You're not even having an effect, it's a waste of time and it's working against you.
> You are not here to police what the other advertisers are doing and selling unless it's a violation of the forum rules, in which case it should be reported to a mod.


Yeah Angel...

Maybe it's time other companies start bringing the trash to APR just as they are constantly doing.

Although i know it's not like Forge or you personally to do so, it's about time APR got some
back of what they are dishing...

You are lucky they don't make a DV too cause we would now be discussing "how much more horsepower the APR DV makes over the others"...LOL....

So thank God for that!!!!


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

GolfRS said:


> Yeah Angel...
> 
> Maybe it's time other companies start bringing the trash to APR just as they are constantly doing.
> 
> ...


Its well documented on these forums that we were in development of a dv replacement for the 2.0T FSI but passed when faced with the expense of electronic actuation vs. the compromises of vacuum actuation.

Enough time has passed since this topic and the results of independant vacuum dv testing on other threads that its able to be brought back up again like none of that ever happened.

Opportunism and taking advantage of those who are more trusting than they should be is all this is.

Blame me for reminding everyone, I don't mind. If that makes me a terrible person and unprofessional, I'm cool with that.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Opportunism and taking advantage of those who are more trusting than they should be is all this is.
> .


So now APR is out there to protect the weak and the innocent ? (i dare not say...the poor..)

Now THAT'S a nice one.... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## [email protected]orsport.com (Jul 29, 2005)

:facepalm:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Can't we all just get along, enough with the bashing already! :banghead:


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

GolfRS said:


> Well Keith said aftermarket products should be made to replace failing ones.
> 
> So if it is only a case of "reliability" and not performance, why is APR selling turbos ?
> 
> ...



What I read him saying was (sarcastically) that there's no reason to buy an aftermarket part that shows questionable improvement over a reliable stock part. If the stock part is failure prone, then there is more reason to buy said questionable aftermarket part. In the case of APR selling turbos (or anyone else selling a turbo kit, not just APR), they are obviously selling a product that provides an unquestionable performance improvement over the stock part, even though on a bone stock car a K03 will probably live forever. The issue here is whether or not the Forge DV actually offers a performance improvement over the OEM D DV, and if that improvement justifies the cost. You believe that it does, and that is totally fine, I am not going to question you or call you out for it. For me, I am happy with my OEM D DV and until it fails on me, I am not interested in moving to a more complicated set up with more points of failure, that costs significantly more, especially without seeing some empirical data to back up anecdotal claims of "a BIG difference in boost response". I would be happy to try it out for myself if you don't mind letting me borrow your Forge DV for a while and can come help me install it :laugh:


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Doesn't look like a piston DV on the Veyron turbo.... (self gratification for installing a AWE DV)....


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

TBomb said:


> ..... they are *obviously selling a product that provides an unquestionable performance improvement over the stock part*....... *a performance improvement over the OEM*.....and if *that improvement justifies the cost*. You believe that it does, and that is totally fine, I am not going to question you or call you out for it.



There....i fixed it for ya....

Oh...and i have ONE word for all of the above (as Angel previously said)...

*CARBONIO.....*

I rest my case.... :facepalm:






> seeing some empirical data to back up anecdotal claims of "a BIG difference in boost response". I would be happy to try it out for myself if you don't mind letting me borrow your Forge DV for a while and can come help me install it :laugh:



Well i think there should be a friend you can borrow one from....Just make sure you give it back to him once you are done smiling.... :laugh:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> There....i fixed it for ya....
> 
> Oh...and i have ONE word for all of the above (as Angel previously said)...
> 
> ...



I think the main reason they push the carbonio intakes is because it retains the OEM MAF I.D. which allows their tune to work efficiently. Is it the best intake on the market, Hell no! Does it work well with their software, of course! I'm not here to bash anyone but thats my feelings towards it.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

How many broken revision D DV's have we all seen?

I've found 2. 

They are both on the forge website. 

IMAGINE THAT!

LOL!

:facepalm: :laugh:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> How many broken revision D DV's have we all seen?
> 
> I've found 2.
> 
> ...


Seriously, not to mention if you simply google "Forge DV problems" or something of that nature, you get multiple threads on golfmkv and vortex. 

Dave


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

GolfRS said:


> Well i think there should be a friend you can borrow one from....Just make sure you give it back to him once you are done smiling.... :laugh:


Fair enough  And I concur on the Carbonio, even though I own one. I bought it before I knew any better, and I was concerned about the dealer seeing a "filter on a stick" style intake while I was still under warranty.

Also, please don't take me for an APR fanboy. I do have their tune, but I am not going to defend them to my death or hate on anything else out there just because it's not APR. This was supposed to be a discussion of the OEM D DV (not made by APR) compared to the Forge DV, and the merits of each. Just because my views on the DV might align with those of APR's guys, doesn't mean I'm one of them, ok?  Besides, I don't think it's any secret how you feel about APR.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

TBomb said:


> Fair enough  And I concur on the Carbonio, even though I own one. I bought it before I knew any better, and I was concerned about the dealer seeing a "filter on a stick" style intake while I was still under warranty.
> 
> Also, please don't take me for an APR fanboy. I do have their tune, but I am not going to defend them to my death or hate on anything else out there just because it's not APR. This was supposed to be a discussion of the OEM D DV (not made by APR) compared to the Forge DV, and the merits of each. Just because my views on the DV might align with those of APR's guys, doesn't mean I'm one of them, ok?  Besides, I don't think it's any secret how you feel about APR.


Oh i don't "feel" anything about APR.

Just in general i am against people (or companies for that matter) that make a living
out of bashing any other product out there that doesn't have their logo on.An i think it's
easy to see APR in particular focuses on certain companies that in return have NEVER,EVER
said anything bad, or criticized theirs products (Forge being one of them).

So why is APR so stuck on Forge ?And what does bashing another company's products say
about the company making the comments ?It's now all about how much you charge your...stuff
that makes a company great, or how much money you spend on advertising (to be able to sell them). Forge is a great example.Great products at a fair price.Maybe this is why APR is so jealous.... :thumbdown:


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## INTERNET EBAY TUNER (May 28, 2010)

APR=WalMart of tuning companies. Wanting to take over and have 100% of the market share,while trying to close down small(er) companies in the same field.......just like WalMart. 
100% if there is ANYTHING negative posted about APR look for Crew to be there.........I swear this guy must have a APR tattoo............and Arin,loyal to APR until his next "job".:wave:
Screw APR,go EBAY!!!!!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

INTERNET EBAY TUNER said:


> APR=WalMart of tuning companies. Wanting to take over and have 100% of the market share,while trying to close down small(er) companies in the same field.......just like WalMart.
> 100% if there is ANYTHING negative posted about APR look for Crew to be there.........I swear this guy must have a APR tattoo............and Arin,loyal to APR until his next "job".:wave:
> Screw APR,go EBAY!!!!!


:screwy:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

TBomb said:


> Fair enough  And I concur on the Carbonio, even though I own one. I bought it before I knew any better, and I was concerned about the dealer seeing a "filter on a stick" style intake while I was still under warranty.
> 
> Also, please don't take me for an APR fanboy. I do have their tune, but I am not going to defend them to my death or hate on anything else out there just because it's not APR. This was supposed to be a discussion of the OEM D DV (not made by APR) compared to the Forge DV, and the merits of each. Just because my views on the DV might align with those of APR's guys, doesn't mean I'm one of them, ok?  Besides, I don't think it's any secret how you feel about APR.


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3437465

I don't think the carbonio ever tried to hide its gains. More often than not, it seems as if many K04 owners have gone back to using the factory airbox + carbonio instead of a filter on a stick since the latter creates too much turbulence for the MAF to read correctly.

Dave


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

I thought you APR fools were done doing this to threads. It's always the same MO.........Here comes 1 @APR fool, then 1 or 2 more @APR fools, then usernames with agendas. It is true tho, nobody outsources parts manufacturing better than APR. When the original downpipes tear the subframe mounts out and fail at the flex, you better believe they will find another company that can make it better for them. Then all the early adopters will get the internet equivalent of a free handjob.




[email protected] said:


> Also, every product we sell performs as advertised.


and as said, an FSI Carbonio intake does absolutely nothing, every claim on your site is false. Selling a K&N style filter and putting the Carbonio in a cosmetic section would be more true.

Lets not forget that the Forge DV came out at a time when there was no OEM piston DV and it *is* alot more reliable than the diaphragm DVs were. It still is mechanically more stout than the OEM D valve. Forge has been very forthcoming in the forums with the fact that their FSI valve may not be necessary If you have a D valve.

If VW were to make a higher capacity OEM HPFP I doubt the APR pump would come right off the market.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

blackvento36 said:


> If VW were to make a higher capacity OEM HPFP I doubt the APR pump would come right off the market.



Yeah, never thought of that, but that pretty much sums it up right there.

If VW would make a higher volume HPFP, APR would probably go broke...LOL (you know...R&D and testing costs money and all that crap)

Forge on the other hand is STILL SELLING DV's even with an OEM competitor on the market...
And an OEM competitor is BY FAR a stronger competitor than APR will ever be...

How does that sound....


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

blackvento36 said:


> It is true tho, nobody outsources parts manufacturing better than APR. When the original downpipes tear the subframe mounts out and fail at the flex, you better believe they will find another company that can make it better for them. Then all the early adopters will get the internet equivalent of a free handjob.


Ironically all the early downpipes had issues with flexpipes cracking and subframe mounts tearing. Is it any surprise that every other company has since copied APR's hanger design? As for outsourcing, almost every company on the market does it. Heck several of the "reputable" dps are of China origin. 



blackvento36 said:


> Lets not forget that the Forge DV came out at a time when there was no OEM piston DV and it *is* alot more reliable than the diaphragm DVs were. It still is mechanically more stout than the OEM D valve. Forge has been very forthcoming in the forums with the fact that their FSI valve may not be necessary If you have a D valve.


It may be more mechanically stout in the fact that you could drive over it and it would probably not break, but it is much more prone to failure. Lubrication washing off, o-rings tearing/wearing out, vacuum leaks at the threaded nipples... All the while, it was never as good of a performer as the OE valve.



blackvento36 said:


> If VW were to make a higher capacity OEM HPFP I doubt the APR pump would come right off the market.


Possibly, although your speculation is unwarranted since VW buys upgraded HPFPs from APR. 

Dave


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

Being based in the UK, we work daily on a wider range of forced induction applications than some people in this thread are even aware of, so they are undoubtedly completely ignorant to the 1.4 twincharged engine from which the valves in question were removed, and have no wherewithall to question the legitimacy of the photos. They can question our credibility until they're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that we provide viable performance upgrades for more applications than they have ever laid their eyes on.

They sell their parts to VW. 

We do as well.

Draw.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

crew219 said:


> Ironically all the early downpipes had issues with flexpipes cracking and subframe mounts tearing.


 Yet I was able to tack one together in my buddy's driveway and finish welding it in my basement with none of those issues 



crew219 said:


> As for outsourcing, almost every company on the market does it. Heck several of the "reputable" dps are of China origin.


AFAIK Forge makes all of their DVs in house. Yet APR wants to compare their products that they don't even make to Forge's?




crew219 said:


> It may be more mechanically stout in the fact that you could drive over it and it would probably not break, but it is much more prone to failure. Lubrication washing off, o-rings tearing/wearing out, vacuum leaks at the threaded nipples... All the while, it was never as good of a performer as the OE valve.


It's more mechanically stout in the fact that it will almost never get to the point where it is unusable. Grease and O-rings fall under the -it requires maintenance- catagory, that is not a failure. Mine has never had any leaks, tho I had the common sense to use a little blue Loctite on the nipple threads.



crew219 said:


> Possibly, although your speculation is unwarranted since VW buys upgraded HPFPs from APR.


And APR buys them from somebody else, what's your point? VW buying a few HPFPs for project cars hardly makes my "speculation unwarranted".

when are you gonna change your SN to [email protected]?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

blackvento36 said:


> And APR buys them from somebody else, what's your point? VW buying a few HPFPs for project cars hardly makes my "speculation unwarranted".



We don't buy our HPFP from someone else. The APR HPFP is designed and created by APR. 

VWOA uses it for their custom cars. 
VW Motorsport uses it for their race cars. 
SEAT Sport uses it on all of their race cars in the entire series. 
APR licenses the pump to several others out there.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

What is the latest Part # and rev for the OEM DV?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Barn01 said:


> What is the latest Part # and rev for the OEM DV?


*06H 145 710 D*


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## ForgeMotorsport (Nov 16, 2000)

APR - Walmart ..lol ..
Forge UK are so very proud to support our US customers and Forge US office.
25 years in the business we are going nowhere and stand behind what we do ...live n let live


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> We don't buy our HPFP from someone else. The APR HPFP is designed and created by APR.


It's funny that you use the word *created* instead of *manufactured*, what does *created*mean exactly? Hitachi manufactures the OEM pump, and APR modifies it. I seriously doubt that APR does the machining and heat treating of the pump internals in-house. The pump may be assembled and tested by APR but nothing is manufactured by APR.

APR jacked another thread somehow managing to stack it's products up against theirs. For one APR doesn't even make a DV for FSI cars so you have no stake in this thread. For two APR doesn't seem to *manufacture* much of anything other than a few little parts run off on a VMC for turbo kits or something. Intakes are made by Carbonio, Exhausts are made by somebody else (used to be Billy Boat), your MKV intercoolers are cast aluminum and I doubt APR has a foundry in the facility. APR is a chiptuner, a product design firm, a distributer, and a bunch of internet pirates. APR is NOT a manufacturer, and unless you can say that Forge doesn't manufacture their own products, you have no stake in that argument either.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Thanks, that's what I thought but wasn't sure.

What's the best price on this and where can I order one? Best I've found yet was $80USD


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

blackvento36 said:


> It's funny that you use the word *created* instead of *manufactured*, what does *created*mean exactly? Hitachi manufactures the OEM pump, and APR modifies it. I seriously doubt that APR does the machining and heat treating of the pump internals in-house. The pump may be assembled and tested by APR but nothing is manufactured by APR.


OEM Fuel pump core - Purchased through he manufacturer. 

Stainless Steel, Heat Treated Piston and Bore - Designed and developed by APR and manufactured at a Tire-one OEM manufacturing facility. 

Spring Energized Seal, washer, gasket - Designed and specced by APR and manufactured from a Tier-one manufacturing facility. 

303 Stainless steel fastener - Designed by APR, machined in house by APR. 

High-Tensile Strength Stainless Steel Spring - Designed and developed by and manufactured by a tier-one spring manufacturer. 





> *APR jacked another thread somehow managing to stack it's products up against theirs.*


Correction: APR Jacked yet another thread to discount the BS some spread. Brand new cracked revision D DV's suddenly failing only in the hands of Forge. Come on... :laugh:







> and unless you can say that Forge doesn't manufacture their own products, you have no stake in that argument either.


Forge does not manufacturer all of their own parts either. Take a look at their latest twin take. You can readily buy the intake filters on ebay and from china. Do you also think they are making their intercooler core in house? Please....


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2005)

:laugh:

Anyone that's curious, stop on by Gloucester and see the wonders of modern manufacture unfold before your very eyes. If we can conceive it we can make it. Kudos to Arin and APR for their undying service to the community in policing those they don't like. 



[email protected] said:


> OEM Fuel pump core - Purchased through he manufacturer.
> 
> Stainless Steel, Heat Treated Piston and Bore - Designed and developed by APR and manufactured at a Tire-one OEM manufacturing facility.
> 
> ...


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

As a company that actually specializes in valves, and is continually checking for failures, of course it makes sense that we actually uncover problems that others are convinced are completely impossible, so they don't even bother looking. :screwy:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> The only OEM valve revision that has not shown any real signs of failure is the "D" revision which is piston based.


/thread


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2005)

And that's what we have been saying since it's release. There have been failures, but far less than earlier revisions. Posted everywhere we post. We have nothing to hide

[email protected];71016168]/thread[/QUOTE]


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

A comment I made months ago. Cute.

When new information is discovered/presented, the logical thing to do is to reevaluate your position!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> A comment I made months ago. Cute.
> 
> When new information is discovered/presented, the logical thing to do is to reevaluate your position!


In your professional opinion, are the OEM Revision D diverter valves failing at a rapid enough rate to justify a replacement valve sold at 4 times the cost?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> A comment I made months ago. Cute.
> 
> When new information is discovered/presented, the logical thing to do is to reevaluate your position!


"Rev D valves do not survive drops as well as our billet valve!"
:laugh:


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> In your professional opinion, are the OEM Revision D diverter valves failing at a rapid enough rate to justify a replacement valve sold at 4 times the cost?


"Value" is subjective, therefore that is not for me to decide.

Nevermind your ignorance to the fact that our replacement valve was not produced as a replacement specifically for the revision "D" valve, rather it was produced as a replacement the older diaphragm based valves for which there was no OEM alternative for multiple years until the existence of the "D" valve, which has proven to be a viable OEM offering in spite of a few noted failures.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> "Value" is subjective, therefore that is not for me to decide.
> 
> Nevermind your ignorance to the fact that our replacement valve was not produced as a replacement specifically for the revision "D" valve, rather it was produced as a replacement the older diaphragm based valves for which there was no OEM alternative for multiple years until the existence of the "D" valve, which has proven to be a viable OEM offering in spite of a few noted failures.


Mike is speaking truth here...Remember the push for a ceiling cat graphic on the box for the This vary valve. I honestly got one of the first few forge valves sold in the U.S! It still functions as designed!

That being said I did recently swap the forge valve out for the OEM D revision on my k04 eurojet reroute relocation setup. I did so to compare the actuation time and valve response. I like the OEM response better for my current setup (K04), but on the k03 (valve directly on the turbo) Forge is bullet proof. Just My 2 centseace:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Rub-ISH said:


> Mike is speaking truth here...Remember the push for a ceiling cat graphic on the box for the This vary valve. I honestly got one of the first few forge valves sold in the U.S! It still functions as designed!
> 
> That being said I did recently swap the forge valve out for the OEM D revision on my k04 eurojet reroute relocation setup. I did so to compare the actuation time and valve response. *I like the OEM response better for my current setup (K04)*, but on the k03 (valve directly on the turbo) Forge is bullet proof. Just My 2 centseace:


Response doesn't change based on turbo size. 

Nice to see that you opted for the OEM 710D when you upped the boost


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## Jovian (Aug 29, 2006)

At three times the cost I cant justify the Forge offering over the D version. I don't see any performance improvement over the D version and the reliability of the D version is damn good. I am not surprised to see a few break but the failures are few and far between. 

Not sure who started the whole "D version is bulletproof" crap, but just looking at it, of course it wouldn't be bulletproof, its freaking plastic, and thin metal! The Forge one is damn good for reliability and craftsmanship but not for three times the cost.

Now back when I was running a 1.8t I ran a Forge valve and it was leaps and bounds better than any of the stock offerings, even the 710n. But I don't think the choice is as clear with the 2.0t engines.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> In your professional opinion, are the OEM Revision D diverter valves failing at a rapid enough rate to justify a replacement valve sold at 4 times the cost?


In your professional opinion, Is the FSI Carbonio intakes performance gains enough to justify buying it over a K&N filter at over 6 times the cost?

Seriously Arin, tell your boss to let you take a break from being the 2.0t forum pirate. It's been explained multiple times in this thread what the Forge DVs place was, and don't act like you don't recall the FSI days when this valve was worth it's weight in gold.............You remember right, back before you had @APR at the end of your screen name?

The Forge valve still has it's place. Have one of your "engineers" compare the mechanical limit of the Forge and D valves and tell me which one would be better to have at the track running big boost. Now, on with the story about how APR runs _-insert product here-_ in all of it's race cars and has never had a failure.


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

blackvento36 said:


> Have one of your "engineers" compare the mechanical limit of the Forge and D valves and tell me which one would be better to have at the track running big boost. Now, on with the story about how APR runs _-insert product here-_ in all of it's race cars and has never had a failure.


But according to Arin, the APR race cars have an "_unlimited budget_", so it doesn't matter if they ever experience a failure because they have unlimited resources to just continually buy replacements and swap them in as needed. 

For what it's worth, we sponsor and fully support race cars that are using our valves, and we have only ever needed to send them one unit per car. 

Maybe certain parts aren't approved for use by the different regulations of different sanctioning bodies, but I guess an unlimited budget is a necessary evil when you deliberately plan to have to continually replace inferior parts.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Hey...listen APR...I got a great idea while reading this thread...

Why not buy a LAAAARGE stock of "D" valves, change the spring with a ball point pen one
stick an APR sticker on that sucka and call it the "APR enhanced D valve"...

Oh and of course sell it for 6 times its price (cause other wise people will think it's a ball point pen spring...of course...).But i guess you already knew that last part....

Sh*t i might even try that, and of course sell it for half the price, also offering "10 clicks per spring"
before installing it....cause hell yeah R&D and product testing is what it's all about !!!!$$$$ :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> Hey...listen APR...I got a great idea while reading this thread...
> 
> Why not buy a LAAAARGE stock of "D" valves, change the spring with a ball point pen one
> stick an APR sticker on that sucka and call it the "APR enhanced D valve"...
> ...



That wasn't very creative, interesting or funny.

Good effort though. :thumbup:


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> That wasn't very creative, interesting or funny.
> 
> Good effort though. :thumbup:


Who cares !!!!

It will pay up just like every other APR product on the market...

You just need to "sauce it up" a bit...You wrote the book on that.

I say LET'S....


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## dub4orl (Sep 4, 2008)

just read this whole thread and seriously, wtf? How much do they pay you people at APR to be trolls? I'd love to have your job all day and troll through forums sh***ing on other people's products. Your jobs, as customer service reps, or brand reps, is not to bash other brands specifically when you don't share a market with them. Your job is most likely to advertise, provide customer service, and inform people of your products...and troll, i guess?

it's just even more childish due to the fact that forge's development of their DV replacement parts don't even take any revenue or consumer market from APR. So I'm guessing your stance is that if it's not made by or specced by APR then it's no good or not necessary or both. that's ridiculous, you don't have the entire vw/audi aftermarket product line in your hands (thankfully). Not to mention APR being any company to talk about overpricing or overvaluing products. Some of your products are absurdly and borderline offensively overpriced. 

:thumbup: to forge for keeping it classy. 

APR :facepalm: this isn't the first time you troll a thread you have no business being in to boot. Sad. 

On a side note, getting paid to troll forums bashing other reputable companies beats the hell out of my job. Any job openings? What's the pay like?


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

blackvento36 said:


> and as said, an FSI Carbonio intake does absolutely nothing, every claim on your site is false. Selling a K&N style filter and putting the Carbonio in a cosmetic section would be more true.
> 
> Lets not forget that the Forge DV came out at a time when there was no OEM piston DV and it *is* alot more reliable than the diaphragm DVs were. It still is mechanically more stout than the OEM D valve. Forge has been very forthcoming in the forums with the fact that their FSI valve may not be necessary If you have a D valve.
> 
> If VW were to make a higher capacity OEM HPFP I doubt the APR pump would come right off the market.


i bet you believe the forge twintake makes 20+ HP though as forge claims :facepalm: yet its basically two useless ebay carbon fiber cans stuck together. 

Rose coloured glasses work both ways, you continually hate on APR for no real reason at all really....








...i guess


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## MKIII_96 (Nov 25, 2006)

what a bunch of whiners in this thread, go to honda-tech

:facepalm:


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

tdotA3mike said:


> i bet you believe the forge twintake makes 20+ HP though as forge claims :facepalm: yet its basically two useless ebay carbon fiber cans stuck together.
> 
> Rose coloured glasses work both ways, you continually hate on APR for no real reason at all really....
> 
> ...


That's alot easier to believe than thinking that if you stick a bigger scoop with the same size inlet on the factory airbox that you did anything other than waste your money.

I do my APR hatin pro bono, APR pays people to hate. I wonder what that job title is anyway.

I like that picture tho, that bird's got the APR "wherez my money bitch" walk down cold.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

crew219 said:


> Response doesn't change based on turbo size.
> 
> Nice to see that you opted for the OEM 710D when you upped the boost


Yeah I realize that but it does matter a bit more when you change the location of the actual DV...its farther from the turbo so response matters a bit more when it comes to response and venting fully. IMO


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

MKIII_96 said:


> what a bunch of whiners in this thread, go to honda-tech
> 
> :facepalm:


Seriously. 

Why is there multiple page thread on this? Would be nice to have a lengthy thread about GTX and EFR turbo testing....oh wait we are on a VW board. NVM continue on with mind numbing threads about intakes, downpipes, and which dv is the best. Christ.


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

tdotA3mike said:


> i bet you believe the forge twintake makes 20+ HP though as forge claims :facepalm: yet its basically two useless ebay carbon fiber cans stuck together.
> 
> Rose coloured glasses work both ways, you continually hate on APR for no real reason at all really....


Hating on them for no reason?

I think it's been pretty clearly established the reasons for which they get so much grief. For their constant attacks on other companies, specifically us. The community at large seems to be willing to let their attacks slide, while simultaneously lambasting us for defending ourselves.

How do you justify that?

And I won't even address your comments about the TWINtake. We have multiple dyno graphs backing up our claims. You have nothing.


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## sirsycott (May 16, 2007)

we need chris @ revo to open up a few cans of whoopass


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

sirsycott said:


> we need chris @ revo to open up a few cans of whoopass


Actually need [email protected] to hurry the **** up with TSI BT tunes.


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