# Anyone know if there's going to be a recall for the 2.0 TSI timing chain tensioner failure?



## chrisell (Apr 20, 2010)

I see there's now an 'official' TSB on the 2.0 TSI timing belt tensioner failure specifically for the Tiguan. Anyone know if there's going to be a recall for this? (derived from TSB 2028302/4 on the 1.4 TSI engine). I've read a couple of people on the forums who've had this happen to them and while I was in Europe over the weekend, a couple of car mags over there had more info on it too. Apparently it's a perfect storm of a badly manufactured part, measured badly, installed badly and checked badly after installation (AutoBild, literal translation)


2010 Volkswagen Tiguan (pws) Service Bulletin 343306
NHTSA: Action Number: 10045560 Service Bulletin Number: 343306
Report Date:
Jul 23, 2012Component:
(pws) 
Summary: Volkswagen: all models experience the timing chain slipping, rattling noises of the engine after starting, and engine fails to start. 2008-13 all models. *pe

Source : http://www.automd.com/tsb/bulletin_b343306/


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## gstrouse (Oct 13, 2000)

You've got to be kidding me. I thought the whole idea of a chain was to prevent something like this which was an issue in the engines with belts.


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## chrisell (Apr 20, 2010)

Chains stretch - ask anyone with a motorbike. The tensioner is there to take up the slack and it seems in this case, the retaining pin eventually fails, the tensioner snaps out of position and the chain jumps the sprocket on one of the cams. First sign: difficult starting or unusually clattery engine when running. Second sign (after the valves are all bent): engine won't start.
VWoA have (apparently) replaced destroyed engines that have had this happen - there's a couple of reports of that on VWVortex and elsewhere, mostly to do with Golfs to this point. VWoA seem to be taking these isolated cases seriously though - forum reports indicate that they've sent techs out directly to the dealerships and not let the dealers do _anything_ to the engines.
This is the original AutoBild article from back in March reporting 61 destroyed engines in Tiguans, Tourans and Golf 1.4TSIs but it also affects the 2.0TSI: http://www.autobild.de/artikel/vw-1.4-tsi-probleme-mit-steuerketten-2892135.html
The first October issue is the one I read that had more info on the 2.0TSI problems but they've not put the online version up yet - I don't think AutoBild do that until a while after the print version is out : http://www.autobild.de/artikel/auto-bild-39-2012-1944688.html


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## veedub64 (Jul 29, 2010)

I wonder if this happend to a modded Tiguan, knowing no modded would cause the pin to fail, if VWoA would still replaced the engine?


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## SkullV (Jun 15, 2010)

veedub64 said:


> I wonder if this happend to a modded Tiguan, knowing no modded would cause the pin to fail, if VWoA would still replaced the engine?


It has happened on a modded GTI (golfmk6.com lowerthanzimmy) and they replaced it under warranty. Don't tell TIGSEL......


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

Glad they are stepping up to the plate, but it somewhat annoys me since they did jack **** for the issues with the earlier 2.5.


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## Michigan mike (May 14, 2014)

*Timing chain failed*

I will be testing their customer service today... My 2010 Tiguas sel timing chain failed at 87,000 miles. I came out of grocery store, turned over, heard rattling noise, then nothing... Calling vw care this morning... I will post outcome. Thanks for all of the bulletin numbers and research. I don't feel like I'm going into a gun fight with a knife now....


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

Michigan mike said:


> I will be testing their customer service today... My 2010 Tiguas sel timing chain failed at 87,000 miles. I came out of grocery store, turned over, heard rattling noise, then nothing... Calling vw care this morning... I will post outcome. Thanks for all of the bulletin numbers and research. I don't feel like I'm going into a gun fight with a knife now....


GL


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

chrisell said:


> I see there's now an 'official' TSB on the 2.0 TSI timing belt tensioner failure specifically for the Tiguan. Anyone know if there's going to be a recall for this? (derived from TSB 2028302/4 on the 1.4 TSI engine). I've read a couple of people on the forums who've had this happen to them and while I was in Europe over the weekend, a couple of car mags over there had more info on it too. Apparently it's a perfect storm of a badly manufactured part, measured badly, installed badly and checked badly after installation (AutoBild, literal translation)
> 
> 
> 2010 Volkswagen Tiguan (pws) Service Bulletin 343306
> ...


When you click on the link for SB 343306 listed above, you get the following summary:

"_Summary: International: informational procedures for repairing connections for grommet pass through due to water leakage. Models terrastar, durastar, workstar, transtar, prostar, lonestar. No model years listed. *pe_"

So what's the REAL link to the TSB, Service Bulletin, whatever... ??


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## chrisell (Apr 20, 2010)

They moved the link. It's here : http://www.automd.com/tsb/bulletin_b338588/
Looks like the PDF has gone, but I have a copy if you want it. PM me.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

The TSB has been out for a while with no movement towards any recall


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## Michigan mike (May 14, 2014)

*2010 timing chain failure*

After having me tow the vehicle to a dealership for diagnosis from my mechanic's garage, ($135), they called me today to let me know they have decided to offer me zero assistance without ever lifting the hood of my car. I stated the fact that there are several bulletins out to the failure of these tensioners, and asked if volkswagen is comfortable selling $30K + vehicles that have an engine life of 87,000 miles? I also asked where in the warranty or service manual it recommends the tensioner be serviced or replaced, to which my case worker said that vw would not be helping me at all or give me any options for anything. I have owned 6 previous VW/ Audi' s, and have replaced the rubber timing belts when the manual said to do so, without any issues, and running every one of the other vehicles past 200K no problem. The first time I have a chain, with a history of failures, they turn their backs, and offer nothing but "sorry". I am not sure what other folks have done after the friendly VW people have offered them the same, but this will not be the end of my engine issue with them. I will be writing my states attorney general about my issue, but plan to call the 800 number one more time to see if they will reconsider their position. I was very nice with them the first time around, and it got me nowhere... He was a bit rude saying i have had it looked at by my mechanic, to which i stated if turning the ignition key for two seconds is diagnosing the problem, then yes, I guess he gave it a look.... 

Any thoughts or suggestions??


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

Michigan mike said:


> After having me tow the vehicle to a dealership for diagnosis from my mechanic's garage, ($135), they called me today to let me know they have decided to offer me zero assistance without ever lifting the hood of my car. I stated the fact that there are several bulletins out to the failure of these tensioners, and asked if volkswagen is comfortable selling $30K + vehicles that have an engine life of 87,000 miles? I also asked where in the warranty or service manual it recommends the tensioner be serviced or replaced, to which my case worker said that vw would not be helping me at all or give me any options for anything. I have owned 6 previous VW/ Audi' s, and have replaced the rubber timing belts when the manual said to do so, without any issues, and running every one of the other vehicles past 200K no problem. The first time I have a chain, with a history of failures, they turn their backs, and offer nothing but "sorry". I am not sure what other folks have done after the friendly VW people have offered them the same, but this will not be the end of my engine issue with them. I will be writing my states attorney general about my issue, but plan to call the 800 number one more time to see if they will reconsider their position. I was very nice with them the first time around, and it got me nowhere... He was a bit rude saying i have had it looked at by my mechanic, to which i stated if turning the ignition key for two seconds is diagnosing the problem, then yes, I guess he gave it a look....
> 
> Any thoughts or suggestions??


You really need to call VWoA customer care. esp with your VW history.


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## Michigan mike (May 14, 2014)

I actally got the call from VWOA prior to a wrench touching my car saying they were not going to do anything for me, and i did state my history with VW. They are about to lose a customer for life, and could care less...


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## chrisell (Apr 20, 2010)

Agreed. Don't do the state's attorney office yet. One thing I do recommend (having gone through a similar issue with my motorbike a few years back) is to keep a good record of all the times you've spoken to someone. So start with your conversation today. Keep your notes simple and as hard as it is, try to keep them non-inflammatory. You might need to hand them over to someone at some point.

When you call VWoA, I'd take the line that you've had a potential timing chain tensioner failure, and that your dealership has not offered you a satisfactory solution (remember - keep it non-inflammatory). Tell them you're aware of a TSB to do with this particular issue, but try to steer clear of accusing them of not doing a recall. If you're reasonable with VWoA (or any corporate office for that matter), you'll get far better results than if you call them and start flinging accusations around.

If VWoA won't play ball - at least the person you're talking to - go up the chain. If that doesn't work, then call VW in Germany. Trust me, it'll be worth the call. They will speak English. Keep a level tone and explain what has happened and take it from there.


To give you some hope, and I know VW is not Triumph, and your car is a car, not a motorbike, when my dealership cocked up a repair so badly that they had the bike for 17 weeks without any solution, I got Triumph USA involved, and then I got Triumph UK involved. The final outcome was that they replaced my bike with a brand new one and the dealership in question has since had their franchise revoked. Ok, yes, that's a nirvana outcome, and VW isn't going to shut down your dealership or buy you a new car, but go about it the right way and I hope you'll be surprised and pleased with the results.


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## Michigan mike (May 14, 2014)

chrisell said:


> Agreed. Don't do the state's attorney office yet. One thing I do recommend (having gone through a similar issue with my motorbike a few years back) is to keep a good record of all the times you've spoken to someone. So start with your conversation today. Keep your notes simple and as hard as it is, try to keep them non-inflammatory. You might need to hand them over to someone at some point.
> 
> When you call VWoA, I'd take the line that you've had a potential timing chain tensioner failure, and that your dealership has not offered you a satisfactory solution (remember - keep it non-inflammatory). Tell them you're aware of a TSB to do with this particular issue, but try to steer clear of accusing them of not doing a recall. If you're reasonable with VWoA (or any corporate office for that matter), you'll get far better results than if you call them and start flinging accusations around.
> 
> ...


Wow! That's quite the happy ending. I have written the names of the case worker, Ian, as well as Renee and Jason in the care center. Both of the phone advocates were very cordial, as was I, but when the case worker got involved, I may have been a bit put off by his responses, and may have said a few things in a way I should not have. Sorry Ian. Definitely not insulting in any way, just stating my case, and the fact of the service bulletin, and NHTSA report out concerning this, which fell on deaf ears. I did ask for his manager to which he informed he was the case worker, and this was vw's decision. I will call again and ask for the next guy up the ladder, and if no better response, jump the pond... Thank you for sharing your bike story and congrats on your persistence. It inspires me to press on a little further.


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## patrickj (Jul 21, 2010)

*Is the 2014 TSI motor included?*



chrisell said:


> I see there's now an 'official' TSB on the 2.0 TSI timing belt tensioner failure specifically for the Tiguan. Anyone know if there's going to be a recall for this? (derived from TSB 2028302/4 on the 1.4 TSI engine). I've read a couple of people on the forums who've had this happen to them and while I was in Europe over the weekend, a couple of car mags over there had more info on it too. Apparently it's a perfect storm of a badly manufactured part, measured badly, installed badly and checked badly after installation (AutoBild, literal translation)
> 
> 
> 2010 Volkswagen Tiguan (pws) Service Bulletin 343306
> ...


Did something change with the 2014 TSI in the Tiguan or would that motor also be part of the TSB?

Thanks.


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## crixsi (Oct 29, 2005)

I'd be curious to see what the outcome is for Michigan mike.
Hopefully they do the right thing.
Before I bought this car, I assumed the timing chain would be better. Understand the tensioners do have to get serviced.....but...at 87,000miles, seems bit premature?
Keep us informed!


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## jmelly (Jun 7, 2014)

*check out my thread it starts "tiguan trouble..." I have been going through similar*

Hi, I feel your pain. I just posted to my thread and the saga continues...I am going "up the chain" I won't take $2,200.00 as a final offer.


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## frosh91 (Jun 30, 2014)

Michigan mike said:


> After having me tow the vehicle to a dealership for diagnosis from my mechanic's garage, ($135), they called me today to let me know they have decided to offer me zero assistance without ever lifting the hood of my car. I stated the fact that there are several bulletins out to the failure of these tensioners, and asked if volkswagen is comfortable selling $30K + vehicles that have an engine life of 87,000 miles? I also asked where in the warranty or service manual it recommends the tensioner be serviced or replaced, to which my case worker said that vw would not be helping me at all or give me any options for anything. I have owned 6 previous VW/ Audi' s, and have replaced the rubber timing belts when the manual said to do so, without any issues, and running every one of the other vehicles past 200K no problem. The first time I have a chain, with a history of failures, they turn their backs, and offer nothing but "sorry". I am not sure what other folks have done after the friendly VW people have offered them the same, but this will not be the end of my engine issue with them. I will be writing my states attorney general about my issue, but plan to call the 800 number one more time to see if they will reconsider their position. I was very nice with them the first time around, and it got me nowhere... He was a bit rude saying i have had it looked at by my mechanic, to which i stated if turning the ignition key for two seconds is diagnosing the problem, then yes, I guess he gave it a look....
> 
> Any thoughts or suggestions??


Michigan Mike, please keep us posted on this.

I JUST had mine fail at 68,000 miles on my 2009 Tig. VWofA is giving me $0 as a result of not having sufficient service done on the car...shame on me & lesson learned. So I'm staring at thousands of dollars in repairs that quite frankly I can't afford, nor do I feel like I should be paying for a car that was purring along with only 68,000 miles on it.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to next steps? I see someone reccomended contacting VW in Germany. Am I a lost cause because I haven't kept up with my services?

Thanks for any help, I'm in quite a jam here.


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## 09TiguanGal (Oct 10, 2008)

mine went up last year at 120000 miles


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## BuffsR (Jul 21, 2005)

Just to add....My 2010 Tiguan SEL dies last year cause of the tensioner. All VW offered me was 1500 towards a new vehicle. The car was essentially totaled. 84k miles, and pristine condition. I was PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## dubGLI05 (May 13, 2009)

I normally try and do my homework before I purchase a car, but I think I totally missed the ball on the Tiguan. 

1) I didn't know until I was under neath the car that it was not a DSG transmission
2) This motor has the weaker exhaust valve springs

and 

3) The tensioner is known to fail premauturely? Holy F! 

Is there an option to upgrade the tensioners now? If so I think this preventative service has just moved up in priority on my list. 


Any known failures on a 2011 Tig?


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Yes there is a new tensioner, but you will need a few service tools to do the job. There are a few threads on the subject here and in the TSI forum.


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## Dhoff024 (Aug 28, 2011)

Mine has 67k on it now and have been worried about the timing tensioner issue after seeing many things about it on vortex and other forums as well I'm sure that I am like others on here who maintain there vehicles instead of taking it to the dealer and paying them to do it. I do my own oil changes always before the 10k mark. I change my own brakes and follow the services that the car calls for as well I did the 60k service slightly before the 60k mark the only thing the car hasn't had done is the transmission service which I plan to do as well. My point is I don't have service records for the car because I do the service myself but the car is maintained properly. So whether VW services the car or not the car is being properly maintained and probably better since the 10k oil change isn't the best idea. With vw not willing to help with this issue isn't there a way to force a recall almost like the thread we had about the fuse problem isn't there a way we can start a petition or something and force VW's hand? There is no way that a car that is 30k should be toast under 100k. I could see if a car was severely neglected and that's what was causing the problem but if the car is properly maintained by VW or otherwise the car should last to 100k and beyond and VW should stand for that because that is a pure shame to spend that much on a vehicle especially from a company we trust and them not stand behind the product.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*timing chain failures*

To all that had a chain tensioner failure and got blown off , fill this out form below and let vw answer to them lol . Bob G 

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml


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## dubGLI05 (May 13, 2009)

rracerguy717 said:


> To all that had a chain tensioner failure and got blown off , fill this out form below and let vw answer to them lol . Bob G
> 
> https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml



I believe from the research, the failure of the tensioner is not considered a safety issue since the occurence of failure would only occur at start up. Looking at the form it is specifically looking for a safety concern and I would think this could qualify, but so far research says it is not. 

Has anyone gotten hurt or in a serious injury because of this?


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## chrisell (Apr 20, 2010)

That's not really the point I don't think. The point is it's giving VW a black eye that they know about this issue and won't do a recall for it - safety or not. The more of these that fail, the more people will talk about it online and offline and the worse their problems will become. Doubly baffling is that in Europe (at least in Germany and Holland) all these engines WERE recalled to have the replacement part fitted....


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## dubGLI05 (May 13, 2009)

chrisell said:


> That's not really the point I don't think. The point is it's giving VW a black eye that they know about this issue and won't do a recall for it - safety or not. The more of these that fail, the more people will talk about it online and offline and the worse their problems will become. Doubly baffling is that in Europe (at least in Germany and Holland) all these engines WERE recalled to have the replacement part fitted....


Yes. I understand what the point is as I am frustratingly and annoyingly going to replace this part that shouldn't have to be replaced so soon and randomly. 

All I am saying is that this safety concern form is probably not the right means to give VW a black eye.


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## chrisell (Apr 20, 2010)

dubGLI05 said:


> Yes. I understand what the point is as I am frustratingly and annoyingly going to replace this part that shouldn't have to be replaced so soon and randomly.
> 
> All I am saying is that this safety concern form is probably not the right means to give VW a black eye.


Oh right - gotcha. Yes - that's not the right place to do it. Although I'm not sure what is


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## oasis (Apr 22, 2003)

Should I enquire about a new tensioner for my daughter's 2013? It's doing fine now but I would like to prevent a preventable problem.


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

oasis said:


> Should I enquire about a new tensioner for my daughter's 2013? It's doing fine now but I would like to prevent a preventable problem.


I'd wait til the warranty is up.


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## dubGLI05 (May 13, 2009)

DasCC said:


> I'd wait til the warranty is up.


And have your car serviced on time by the dealer


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## Ween (Jan 10, 2012)

I had a timing chain issue pop up this past weekend. Stopped at a stop sign and noticed the car was vibrating and lurching. Flashing MIL appeared about 3 minutes later. Shut off engine and attempted to restart. Long crank with no fire on first try. Second attempt the key rotated with no turn over. Third attempt started; had steady MIL and EPC illuminated. Had to maintain about 2000RPM just to make sure the engine wouldn't stall. Engine was in some sort of limp mode...hardly any power or torque. Went straight to the VW dealer and dropped it off. Got the call today (Tuesday) that it was a "timing chain slip". They're still looking for any other damage; waiting on parts.

2012 SE, 3 years and 1 month, 47,310 miles. Service tech said it's covered under the powertrain warranty (5yr/60k). I asked about other Tigs with timing chain issues and the tech said they've seen 2 other Tigs with the issue.


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## BenjSA (Feb 12, 2015)

I have a 2008 1.4 TSI Tiguan bought from South African VW dealer, full dealer servicing too. Have had the coils replaced 7 times( kept burning out) spark plugs 4 times ( kept burning out too) and variouse other faults giving a total of 13 returns under warranty. The vehicle is now out of warranty with 139000 Km's (86000 miles) and the timing chain has failed bending valves etc. The vehicle took 3 weeks to repair and I had to pay R31000 ($2600 us) had a meeting with VWSA who say its normal wear and tear would not assist and didn't even apologies . Has anybody been able to get VW to admit there is a fault or had any luck with VW Germany ?

Thanks


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## miltak (Nov 1, 2008)

*NHTSA*

2009 Tiguan with 96k miles here.Same issue failed tensioner caused bent valves.Service telling me $3500-$5000 and they told me don't waste time to call VW USA-they won't do nothing-been there done that.
It happened to this one when driving on hwy,so tell me it's not safety problem if you stall on hwy.
Will have to file complaint with NHTSA https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml
If there is more like this one-they will have to do something.
I love VW cars and I got Audi A7 for my wife,but this is really bad from VW-they know it's a problem,but they won't do anything even if it can put people in danger.


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## D-Caf (Mar 22, 2009)

miltak said:


> 2009 Tiguan with 96k miles here.Same issue failed tensioner caused bent valves.Service telling me $3500-$5000 and they told me don't waste time to call VW USA-they won't do nothing-been there done that.
> It happened to this one when driving on hwy,so tell me it's not safety problem if you stall on hwy.
> Will have to file complaint with NHTSA https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml
> If there is more like this one-they will have to do something.
> I love VW cars and I got Audi A7 for my wife,but this is really bad from VW-they know it's a problem,but they won't do anything even if it can put people in danger.


YES, if this happens while driving and causes the engine to fail while driving this is a SAFETY issue. If enough people file, NHTSA will eventually act. The drive to get the melting fuse boxes recalled worked that way.

Up till now all the failures had been while parked and starting, a failure on the road is a whole different story.


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## mercavius (May 16, 2002)

I updated the tensioner on my 2011 last week at 68K. It cost ~$800 (with an oil change). Bought the kit from HSTuning and had NGP do the labor. It's expensive preventative maintenance but at least I don't worry that I'm driving a ticking time bomb and it's much cheaper than ~$4500 if it actually fails.


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## sbcncsu (Nov 14, 2003)

I feel that there should be a recall. My letter writing campaign to VWoA was unsuccessful, they refused to assist me with the cost of the PM.

I have an appointment with Apex Tuning on Sept. 11 to have mine changed. I may have a Unitronic Stage 1+ tune programmed while it's in there, why not.


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## markdonohoe (Mar 25, 2011)

*Possible to check for upgrade?*

New guy here. I'm currently shopping for early model Tiguans 2009-2011. A bit concerned since finding these threads. Is there any way to verify the tensioner has been upgraded without pulling the engine or getting a receipt from the seller. Looking at 2009 with 96K on it now. Sounds like I'd be purchasing an expensive preventive maintenance. 

By the way, these sites are great. I owned a Corrado in the past and could never have survived without online counseling. Thanks to all of you and your comments.


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## GTIZRX (Nov 21, 2001)

Yes there is a inspection plug you can remove on the lower timing cover to visually inspect the tensioner and check if it has the updated tensioner. My 2012 Tiguan with a build date of November 2011 has the updated tensioner from the factory. Changed the tensioner on my brothers 2011 Tiguan with over 100,000 miles (he got lucky) and went to change it on the 2012 and pulled the cover and it already had the updated tensioner. We have had the 2012 since new so that is the way it came from the factory. I would still suggest to anyone to atleast pull the inspection plug and visually check no matter what year it is just for piece of mind plus it is very easy to do.


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## gstrouse (Oct 13, 2000)

GTIZRX said:


> Yes there is a inspection plug you can remove on the lower timing cover to visually inspect the tensioner and check if it has the updated tensioner. My 2012 Tiguan with a build date of November 2011 has the updated tensioner from the factory. Changed the tensioner on my brothers 2011 Tiguan with over 100,000 miles (he got lucky) and went to change it on the 2012 and pulled the cover and it already had the updated tensioner. We have had the 2012 since new so that is the way it came from the factory. I would still suggest to anyone to atleast pull the inspection plug and visually check no matter what year it is just for piece of mind plus it is very easy to do.


I have a 2012 which I purchased in May of 2012. Can you post a picture of the inspection plug and what to look for that would indicate it's the updated tenioner? It would be much appreciated.


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## miltak (Nov 1, 2008)

Please if there is more people with 08-12 tsi failed tensioner while driving please file report with NHTSA-it is serious safety concern. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/Vehicl...nt/index.xhtml
It it serious problem and VW knows about it , and yet refusing to do anything.
Please VW do something about it.This recall would be costly,but not doing anything about it will cost more.Reminds me GM ignition switch.I hear many of them happened when starting the car,but there is fair share of them going while driving.
If they at least offer split the cost-I am sure there would be many VW owners replacing them before they fail.
I did one myself and it took me 2 hours plus the cost of tensioner and new timing cover-the cover will bent once you try it to remove.
Who made the defective tensioner anyway.Was it VW or one of the suppliers?
If supplier - have them pay for it.


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## GTIZRX (Nov 21, 2001)

gstrouse said:


> I have a 2012 which I purchased in May of 2012. Can you post a picture of the inspection plug and what to look for that would indicate it's the updated tenioner? It would be much appreciated.


http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?5985865-DIY-TSI-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Update

I used this DIY as a guide when me and my brother changed the tensioner on his 2011 Tiguan, we didn't take any pics but in this DIY I think it is the 13 photo down you will see a close up of the lower timing chain cover and up and to the left of the crankshaft seal you can see most of the inspection plug. If I remember right you need to take off the wheel and inner fender liner and possibly the turbo pipe to get a clear look at the inspection plug. Also go to the DAP website they have a excellent video on the tensioner and what to look for as far as the differences go. Also I used a bit of sealant when I reinstalled my inspection plug just to be on the safe side.


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## markdonohoe (Mar 25, 2011)

GTIZRX said:


> Yes there is a inspection plug you can remove on the lower timing cover to visually inspect the tensioner and check if it has the updated tensioner. My 2012 Tiguan with a build date of November 2011 has the updated tensioner from the factory. Changed the tensioner on my brothers 2011 Tiguan with over 100,000 miles (he got lucky) and went to change it on the 2012 and pulled the cover and it already had the updated tensioner. We have had the 2012 since new so that is the way it came from the factory. I would still suggest to anyone to atleast pull the inspection plug and visually check no matter what year it is just for piece of mind plus it is very easy to do.


That's great news. An inspection point! I never would have guess someone at VW had the foresight to design that. I have hope again. And based on the post below, it looks like a job I can do myself. Fantastic. Thanks


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## SAITCHO (Jun 29, 2009)

We need a better DIY or a video anyone up for the task?


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## Mfisher24 (May 30, 2015)

My 2012 Tiguan LE build date of December 2011 has new timing chain tensioner.


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## Scott Evil (Aug 21, 2002)

What Is the going cost to replace this as preventative maintenance? I have seen $900 - $1000?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

Scott Evil said:


> What Is the going cost to replace this as preventative maintenance? I have seen $900 - $1000?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the number I see floating around. Haven't asked my dealer for a quote since I won't be in my Tig for much longer.


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## sbcncsu (Nov 14, 2003)

Scott Evil said:


> What Is the going cost to replace this as preventative maintenance? I have seen $900 - $1000?


The local VW dealer quoted $1,500 to replace the tensioner and lower cover. To replace the chains and guides at the same time the cost was quoted at $2,100.

Apex Tuning quoted $927 for the tensioner and lower cover. The Tiguan goes in Friday to have Apex Tuning do the replacement.


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## sbcncsu (Nov 14, 2003)

Here is a video I put together on the tensioner showing how it works and how it fails.


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## Scott Evil (Aug 21, 2002)

That will keep me awake tonight 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jduncan (Oct 23, 2015)

Michigan mike said:


> I will be testing their customer service today... My 2010 Tiguas sel timing chain failed at 87,000 miles. I came out of grocery store, turned over, heard rattling noise, then nothing... Calling vw care this morning... I will post outcome. Thanks for all of the bulletin numbers and research. I don't feel like I'm going into a gun fight with a knife now....


Hey - curious what was your outcome with the tensioner? I just found out today mine went out causing a bend in 2 valves. 

Thanks!


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## liquidvw (Mar 20, 2003)

sbcncsu said:


> Here is a video I put together on the tensioner showing how it works and how it fails.


Great video. :beer::thumbup:


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## sbcncsu (Nov 14, 2003)

liquidvw said:


> Great video. :beer::thumbup:


Thanks! :wave:


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## cartuner08 (May 5, 2011)

I'm looking at buying a new '16 Tiguan and I am wondering if it's just the 09-12 Tiguans tensioners failing or even the new vehicles have been having the same problem?


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

cartuner08 said:


> I'm looking at buying a new '16 Tiguan and I am wondering if it's just the 09-12 Tiguans tensioners failing or even the new vehicles have been having the same problem?


A '16 would be fine. It has the revised part


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## GlennScott (Jan 14, 2014)

I need mine to fail in the next 35000 miles or I will need to get this done. What is labor on the repair?


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## sbcncsu (Nov 14, 2003)

GlennScott said:


> I need mine to fail in the next 35000 miles or I will need to get this done. What is labor on the repair?


For me it was $927 out the door, parts and labor at Apex Tuning. The book hours on this job is 6.5 hours. Dealer here quoted $1500. YMMV


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## dme369369 (Oct 19, 2015)

*2012 Tiguan SE 4 Motion Timing Chain Tensioner*

2012 Tiguan SE 4 Motion Build Date 4-2012

Inspected my tensioner today via the inspection port…updated tensioner installed from the factory…06K 109 467K


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## ASCI_Blue (Apr 7, 2007)

I had one of these fail in my 06 GTI with FSI, I'm emailing VW HQ with ideas of class action lawsuits, attorney general investigations, and senator inquiries. VW Boise and VWOA Care number have both refused to help with this, and I'll be sending all kinds of threads to [email protected] including BBB complaints and the negative reviews of my local stealership. VW Customer Care did give me the e-mail address although I was hoping for Michael Horn and Stefan Schüller's direct addresses,


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## Qmulus (Sep 5, 2015)

ASCI_Blue said:


> I had one of these fail in my 06 GTI with FSI, I'm emailing VW HQ with ideas of class action lawsuits, attorney general investigations, and senator inquiries. VW Boise and VWOA Care number have both refused to help with this, and I'll be sending all kinds of threads to [email protected] including BBB complaints and the negative reviews of my local stealership. VW Customer Care did give me the e-mail address although I was hoping for Michael Horn and Stefan Schüller's direct addresses,


The '06 GTI used the BPY code FSI engine with timing belt, not a timing chain on the front of the engine like the CCTA code TSI engines in our Tiguans. If you had a chain tensioner fail on your FSI engine, that is a totally different issue as that engine had a different chain at the back of the engine with a very different tensioner. The BPYs also had issues with cam followers for the high pressure fuel pump that took out the the intake cam, intake manifold issues, water pump problems (like all 2.0Ts). 

I really can't understand why you would want to contact all those people with threats of class action lawsuits, nor tell people here that you are going to do it. I am sure that they have heard all about this kind of issues and have another big one to deal with right now. A little friendly advice, if you want to start a lawsuit, contact a lawyer, not the ones you intend to sue. It would also be good to get your facts straight.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Qmulus said:


> I really can't understand why you would want to contact all those people with threats of class action lawsuits, nor tell people here that you are going to do it. I am sure that they have heard all about this kind of issues and have another big one to deal with right now. A little friendly advice, if you want to start a lawsuit, contact a lawyer, not the ones you intend to sue. It would also be good to get your facts straight.


x2 on this

Plus your car is 10+ years old. :screwy:
People with 2-3 year old (newer) cars having a tensioner go out is sort of a bigger deal.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Not to derail the topic, but the worst thing you can ever do is tell a big company you are either going to sue or contact a lawyer. Once the genie is out of the bottle, they will not discuss anything with you what so ever. Should you need to contact them for some other issue, consider yourself blacklisted as they will refer you to their legal council.


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

sbcncsu said:


> For me it was $927 out the door, parts and labor at Apex Tuning. The book hours on this job is 6.5 hours. Dealer here quoted $1500. YMMV


Spoke to my dealer, just to INSPECT the timing chain tensioner (to see if you have the old or the new one) is 5 hrs labor, which in this area translates to about $700. My build date is around Christmas 2011, one of the more experienced techs there said that it was "almost a certainty) that my car had the older version of the tensioner. FYI the service bulletin referred to in the video link above is 15-12-01, dated 23 July 2012. It has a photo of the old tensioner in it.


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## hhbah (Mar 11, 2012)

My 2012 Tiguan SE was built in Sept 2011 and it did have the old style tensioner. I had it replaced.


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## KelOne333 (May 15, 2002)

well this doesn't fill me with thoughts of sunshine and bunnies. I got my '11 Tiguan with 48k back in September. I have 53k now and after reading this, i'm horrified. I just went through three engines in two years with my Mazda6 (my penance for leaving VW), and neither my mind, nor my bank account can take a hit like this. 
If I had preventative maintenance done and replace the CCT now, are they replacing it with the upgraded part? or the same thing?

I wish it was as easy as a motorcycle, i'd have my old 900RR tensioner out and in inside an hour.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

KelOne333 said:


> If I had preventative maintenance done and replace the CCT now, are they replacing it with the upgraded part? or the same thing?


It's a newer updated/upgraded part :thumbup:

https://deutscheautoparts.com/tsi-t...it.html?_ga=1.168509666.2141491562.1438933395


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

ElSupremo said:


> Spoke to my dealer, just to INSPECT the timing chain tensioner (to see if you have the old or the new one) is 5 hrs labor, which in this area translates to about $700.



Misinformed dealer! it does not take 5 hrs to remove the inspection plug an look in. A 1 hr. charge would be reasonable. Less would better


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

shawng said:


> Misinformed dealer! it does not take 5 hrs to remove the inspection plug an look in. A 1 hr. charge would be reasonable. Less would better


I mentioned an "inspection plate" but all they found was the cover that appears to be what you need to remove to replace the part. Do you have a reference or a picture I could show them?


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## sbcncsu (Nov 14, 2003)

ElSupremo said:


> I mentioned an "inspection plate" but all they found was the cover that appears to be what you need to remove to replace the part. Do you have a reference or a picture I could show them?


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7207503-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-replaced&p=89576234&viewfull=1#post89576234


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks, exactly what I need to..err.."educate" my dealer.


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## Kmaj (Aug 13, 2010)

I just bought a 2013 VW Tiguan with 28k on it last week. I just came across this post. Anyone know if the 2013 included the fix for this issue?


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## oasis (Apr 22, 2003)

I believe the consensus is VW made the improvement at the factory mid-2012 model year, so you should be okay.


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## VladtheImpaler (Feb 4, 2016)

*There won't be a Volkswagen warranty extension on TSI tensioners.*

Volkswagen won't correct this issue or reimburse 2.0 TSI owners for tensioner replacement and/or engine damage until they get sued.


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

shawng said:


> Misinformed dealer! it does not take 5 hrs to remove the inspection plug an look in. A 1 hr. charge would be reasonable. Less would better


My local dealer service dept checked it for free while it was on the lift for another issue.


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## Coneynew (Sep 2, 2009)

*Looks like class action lawsuit is in the works*

After just reading a thread in the volkswagonownersclub forum, there is a post in the re: the starting of a class action lawsuit. The article is dated 1/25/2016 : https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wordpress.com/


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## dnellans (Jul 21, 2012)

going in tommorrow for the airbag clock spring recall and they said they'd have a tech check if I have the old or new tensioner for free since I have a 2012 which could have either. will check my build date today too since it sounds like ones built in sept 11 have the old one but nov or later have the updated part


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## UncleUgbee (Jan 23, 2016)

how do you determine which tensioner your tiguan has? Is taking it in to the dealership the only way to tell? I have a 2012, but am not 100% sure on its build date.


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

UncleUgbee said:


> how do you determine which tensioner your tiguan has? Is taking it in to the dealership the only way to tell? I have a 2012, but am not 100% sure on its build date.


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7245018-Chain-Tensioner-Inspection-how-to-help-needed


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## dnellans (Jul 21, 2012)

finishing up at dealer. of course they don't have the plug in stock and won't inspect and replace it with the old plug... happy to do it for an hours labor once they get the part in stock but guy told me that with an April 2012 build date I shouldn't worry about it, it's almost certainly got the new part. I'll verify the build date and just check it myself when I install a upgraded turbo outlet pipe since pulling that pipe makes it easy to check. love having an excuse for upgrading the pancake pipe 

one more note: without asking they updated my PCM to some new flash "to help with an over sensitive O2 sensor" as part of this service. under normal circumstances that would be totally fine of course, but this erased my APR tune  got to go back and get it reflashed on I guess


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## UncleUgbee (Jan 23, 2016)

Mfisher24 said:


> My 2012 Tiguan LE build date of December 2011 has new timing chain tensioner.


Was there a definitive date when they began using the new tensioner? My SE also has a December '11 build date.... Think I should be good?


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## dnellans (Jul 21, 2012)

Service advisor this morning wasn't able to give me a definitive date - "sometime near the end of 2011". Fortunately checking it yourself appears to be easy if you just jack up the pass wheel, or 1hr of labor to check it seems to be the going rate.


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## MiamiMann (Feb 12, 2016)

*VW CC 2.0L TSI TIMING CHAIN TENSIONER FAILURE $2,700 repair cost*

My 2011 CC Timing Chain tensioner failed! The dealer quote me $2,700 for the repairs. I called VW and they denied any help. Is this repair cost fair? I think it is outrageous. How much a repair like this should cost?


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## UncleUgbee (Jan 23, 2016)

MiamiMann said:


> How much a repair like this should cost?


too much. best of luck. I would consider taking it to a VW specialty shop other than a local VW dealer. I'm sure there is one if you're near a bigger metropolitan area.


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

dnellans said:


> finishing up at dealer. of course they don't have the plug in stock and won't inspect and replace it with the old plug...


That's why I scurried my a$$ down to the dealer's parts dept when I learned they had only 1 in stock (about $6.50). Now I need to decide if I want them to do the inspection for $135 (their hourly rate) or take it to an independent VW shop. My build date is Dec 11th, 2011 and one of the "old time techs" said that it's "likely" I have the problematic one.


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

ElSupremo said:


> That's why I scurried my a$$ down to the dealer's parts dept when I learned they had only 1 in stock (about $6.50). Now I need to decide if I want them to do the inspection for $135 (their hourly rate) or take it to an independent VW shop. My build date is Dec 11th, 2011 and one of the "old time techs" said that it's "likely" I have the problematic one.


I guess I got lucky. I was under the vehicle with 2 techs & the Service Mgr discussing another issue when I brought up the chain tensioner, one of the techs popped the inspection plug, got a mirror, confirmed it was a Gen 1 tensioner, & reinstalled the same inspection plug. No leaks so far.

Now the issue is whether to roll the dice or replace it with a Gen 2 tensioner.


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## UncleUgbee (Jan 23, 2016)

ElSupremo said:


> My build date is Dec 11th, 2011 and one of the "old time techs" said that it's "likely" I have the problematic one.


See this is the thing I don't understand. Why can they not just tell us when they switched it at the plant. Spoke with a couple VW dealerships in the area & they both told me the switch was made fall of 2011 & by december they had been using the new version. My build date is also Dec 2011.


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

UncleUgbee said:


> See this is the thing I don't understand. Why can they not just tell us when they switched it at the plant. Spoke with a couple VW dealerships in the area & they both told me the switch was made fall of 2011 & by december they had been using the new version. My build date is also Dec 2011.


Even if someone told you a date it would not eliminate the need to verify.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

When they made the switch at the engine plant and when the engines began to make into cars, after older ones got used up are two different things. From reports everywhere this did not occur until mid 2012.


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## VladDracul (Feb 3, 2016)

*2.0 tsi timing chain failures*

There won't be an extended warranty for the 2.0 tsi timing chain issues unless there is a successful class action. VW knew there was a problem with these tensioners and failed to take care of the problem during warranty. Terrible.


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## dubdalk (Sep 5, 2007)

I just talked to Sobran Law Firm about their class action lawsuit. I will be sending him my tensioner and chain, as my car just failed. Please contact them if you have this issue. 
https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wordpress.com/

[email protected] or call (781) 741-6075 8 AM to 6 PM EST


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

VladDracul said:


> There won't be an extended warranty for the 2.0 tsi timing chain issues unless there is a successful class action. VW knew there was a problem with these tensioners and failed to take care of the problem during warranty. Terrible.


Please give us insight as to your source within the VW hierarchy for your knowledge of their future actions....:wave:


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## jswfl (Oct 29, 2011)

*How much does it cost to have a Gen 2 tensioner installed?*

Just wondering how much it would cost to have a Gen 2 tensioner installed before the original fails? I have a 2011 Tiguan, after reading all these post I am very concerned. I have just over 60k on the car and I am out of warranty.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Plan on spending at least $800 give or take.


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## Coneynew (Sep 2, 2009)

jswfl said:


> Just wondering how much it would cost to have a Gen 2 tensioner installed before the original fails? I have a 2011 Tiguan, after reading all these post I am very concerned. I have just over 60k on the car and I am out of warranty.


Most likely upwards of $1600 at the Dealer. I don't have the exact quote yet, but seeing some posts where people also replaced the chain and guides as well (depending on the mileage). Don't quote me on this, but I think they will want to replace replace the lower timing chain cover too since it can bend during removal.


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## jswfl (Oct 29, 2011)

Coneynew said:


> Most likely upwards of $1600 at the Dealer. I don't have the exact quote yet, but seeing some posts where people also replaced the chain and guides as well (depending on the mileage). Don't quote me on this, but I think they will want to replace replace the lower timing chain cover too since it can bend during removal.


That is one expensive maintenance item. Is there anything I can do to prevent the original from failing or somehow delay the failure? I don't know too much about cars. So hopefully my question here is not ignorant.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

jswfl said:


> Is there anything I can do to prevent the original from failing or somehow delay the failure?


Upgrade to the new version


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## MLue1 (Apr 27, 2008)

Michigan mike said:


> I actally got the call from VWOA prior to a wrench touching my car saying they were not going to do anything for me, and i did state my history with VW. They are about to lose a customer for life, and could care less...


I'm in the same boat, ....with Diesel Gate, they need all the customers they can get to stay, very short sighted of them indeed.


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

I think you mistake them for someone who gives a $h1t...


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

ElSupremo said:


> I think you mistake them for someone who gives a $h1t...


It's a business decision...the issue isn't a safety failure (such as defective brakes or steering)...most of the failures are post-warranty...the part was redesigned to minimize failures on a go-forward basis...as of now, the economics don't favor a recall.


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## MLue1 (Apr 27, 2008)

VladDracul said:


> There won't be an extended warranty for the 2.0 tsi timing chain issues unless there is a successful class action. VW knew there was a problem with these tensioners and failed to take care of the problem during warranty. Terrible.


If there is Class action coming and I hope there is, we are going to need analysis and reporting like this tread from another forum.
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102001


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## dish_821 (Feb 16, 2013)

*Tiguan built after 2012 Jan*

Are there any Tiguan built after 2012 Jan failure reported? I have a 2012 Tiguan SE 4motion, the built date is 01/2012.. not sure if it has the old tensioner..:banghead:


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## rabstg (Jun 4, 2002)

dish_821 said:


> Are there any Tiguan built after 2012 Jan failure reported? I have a 2012 Tiguan SE 4motion, the built date is 01/2012.. not sure if it has the old tensioner..:banghead:


The wife has the same. When it goes in for the transmission fluid change this summer I will be having them check which version is installed. I will report back here.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

dish_821 said:


> Are there any Tiguan built after 2012 Jan failure reported? I have a 2012 Tiguan SE 4motion, the built date is 01/2012.. not sure if it has the old tensioner..:banghead:


You're right on the bubble, with me (Dec 2011). Not clear if the transition was hard (toss out all the yet-to-be-installed ones, only use new ones) or soft (use up the remaining stock of old ones, then install the new batch). I suspect the latter. The only way to tell is by inspection (about 1 hour labor on a lift and a $7.00 replacement rubber cap), detailed elsewhere in this thread.

I have 33k on my car now and an extended warranty that lasts another year. At that point I'll have it inspected and make a keep-and-repair or sell decision. I like the car, usually run all mine to death before getting a new one, but the tensioner failure is so sudden and catastrophic that, IMHO and all other things being equal, getting a replacement vehicle might be the best choice. The tradeoff is simply getting one of the new tensioners installed, a ~$1600 "insurance policy" premium...


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## tardman91 (Sep 6, 2011)

When do these typically fail? I have a 2011 with 63K miles on it that my wife drives, which I'm scared is a ticking time bomb. As soon as my bonus drops for work in the next month or so I'm ditching it for a CRV. It runs fine, but besides the tensioner I'm worried about, it needs new tires, brakes, and whatever is making noise from the front right (bushings?). I'd rather trade it than spend $1K+ to fix everything, and then still have to worry about the tensioner. Trade value is about $10K, and I owe a little less than $4K, so it's kind of a no-brainer to trade.


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## ElSupremo (Mar 22, 2012)

tardman91 said:


> When do these typically fail? I have a 2011 with 63K miles on it that my wife drives, which I'm scared is a ticking time bomb. As soon as my bonus drops for work in the next month or so I'm ditching it for a CRV. It runs fine, but besides the tensioner I'm worried about, it needs new tires, brakes, and whatever is making noise from the front right (bushings?). I'd rather trade it than spend $1K+ to fix everything, and then still have to worry about the tensioner. Trade value is about $10K, and I owe a little less than $4K, so it's kind of a no-brainer to trade.


You're entering the mileage where the probability goes up. Best suggestion is to read any of the multiple "tensioner" posts here to get a feeling and then decide what your risk tolerance is...


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## geek504 (Jan 10, 2015)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...t-timing-chain-tensioner-class-action-lawsuit
:wave:


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

geek504 said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...t-timing-chain-tensioner-class-action-lawsuit
> :wave:


Big difference between a global recall & a potential class action suit limited to those that have had an issue.


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## dubdalk (Sep 5, 2007)

geek504 said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...t-timing-chain-tensioner-class-action-lawsuit
> :wave:


I just talked to the lawyer and they are looking to file in the next few days. Anyone who has had this issue, please contact him.

pics for clicks:

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/24993783024/in/dateposted-public/" title="20160226_105540"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1712/24993783024_13966db130_k.jpg" width="2048" height="1152" alt="20160226_105540"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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## Mr_Jones (Apr 20, 2013)

*Vw & audi timing chain tensioner defect — class action lawsuit*

Came across this today:


http://www.carcomplaints.com/alerts...utm_campaign=20160527-vw-timing-chain-lawsuit


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## IHCSCOUT (Feb 24, 2016)

Like I have said before, in this type of lawsuit you get the $5 McDonalds gift certificate and a coupon good for $100 off on your next VW. The lawyer gets the billion. Waste of time.Dont need more super wealthy lawyers.


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## RMJSix (Sep 20, 2016)

Count me as another victim of the failed tensioner.

My wife's 2010 Jetta 2.0T TSI with 84,000 miles failed 2 weeks ago and the dealer quoted a little over $7,000 for a new engine. She was driving when the engine stalled.

After two weeks of phone calls and back-and-forth with VW Customer Care, they decided to offer zero assistance. I am still talking with the dealer about a possible solution but will soon be filing my complaint with NHSTB. I did a quick search through their existing database and they already have many similar complaints but apparently have not taken action yet.

Class actions mostly just create bad press for large corporations and large fees for the attorneys. They don't do much to help the end consumer. I would much rather see a recall.


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## v b chil-n (Nov 6, 2000)

I guess I'm a new member, our tiguan is at a mechanic and I'm waiting for the call. I called my local vw dealership and they don't even want me to tow the car to them.


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## a1junkie (Apr 26, 2000)

IHCSCOUT said:


> Like I have said before, in this type of lawsuit you get the $5 McDonalds gift certificate and a coupon good for $100 off on your next VW. The lawyer gets the billion. Waste of time.Dont need more super wealthy lawyers.


 True, but VW needs to be punished for this BS. Manufacturers decide on whether to do a voluntary recall based on the cost of it minus the cost of lawsuits if they don't recall. If nobody sues, there is no motivation to recall, or to build better in the future.


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## bmo1975 (Aug 30, 2016)

I enjoy my Tiguan, but if the engine blows and VW doesn't cover it, I'm not buying another VW.


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

If your engine blows? Fix it and dont wait for it to break...

Its part of owning the car. You know the tensioner is going to go bad, and the pcv. I bought mine from vw a month ago and already got the tools and parts to change both. I used having to change the part as leverage in the deal in buying the car.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

bmo1975 said:


> I enjoy my Tiguan, but if the engine blows and VW doesn't cover it, I'm not buying another VW.


If you have read though the kazillion threads here you know VW will typically not cover it out of warranty. I can tell you similar defects occur on other brands, so digging your heels in and saying you won't buy VW again is somewhat counterproductive. As well if it blows up, you will have a 3600 lb paperweight worth $100. 

Suck it up, get it fixed and enjoy the drive.


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## bmo1975 (Aug 30, 2016)

I'm not as petulant as that last post sounds. I love Audis and VWs and knew their reputation going into this... I spent more to buy newer hoping to avoid problems... I could have spent even more to get even newer... I traded in a Lexus because repairs were starting to get expensive ($3,500 since last December)... so I bought a 3-4 year old car with 49k miles on it and withing two months of ownership I'm looking at probably dropping another $1,500 into repairs... 

There's a German mechanic with a great reputation nearby. When I get the oil changed next, I'll have them check it out and if it needs to be fixed, I'll take care of it...

The car is perfect for my needs, all I'm saying is if it costs me $1500 for a $200 part that they know about, my next car probably won't be that A5 that I really want.

It just sucks because they have great designs, but it's always a $5 piece of plastic that screws the whole thing up...


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

The Service Mgr at my local dealer told me that they just received a 2010 Tig in trade, with about 50k miles on it, & the tensioner went; he said it needed a new cylinder head...


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Thats what happens. And plenty of cars have problems. Go buy a 996 porsche 911. Like an 04... go spend 40k on it an have the IMS bearing go bad and trash the engine.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

Brightgolf said:


> Thats what happens. And plenty of cars have problems.... Go buy a 996 porsche...


Yes, of course. Are you suggesting that because Porsche has produced some failure prone product (especially the early 986's) that it's OK for VW to do likewise?


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## Bobenis (Nov 13, 2004)

Just happened to my 2009 GTI...87k miles on it or 140k km.
I have had my GTI for about 2.7 years and it has been super reliable for me without any issue, minus the typical coil pack issues.
Went to drive the wife to work yesterday morning and instead of the usual turn over once and start, it struggled to start for about 3 seconds before finally starting and I thought that was odd but did not look at the dash to see if the CEL was on. 
Half way through the drive I looked down and noticed the CEL. 

I have a Android deck in my car with Torque so I did a scan expecting to see a (very small) evaporative leak but instead was met with the evil P0016.
I cleared the code and kept driving as I was experiencing nothing out of the norm, no noise, rattling, rough idling/running, acceleration, etc issues...everything seemed perfectly fine. 
Started doing research once home and of course it can be numerous things at the root so I took it to Ellice Auto here in Victoria and the techs were stumped as well. 
He used their VAG and everything was dead on regarding idle, timing, etc.
They pulled the plugs on the valve cover and visually checked the cam and that too seemed OK.
Now my oil was slightly low so I thought there might have been too little of pressure for the system to auto correct the timing but the oil addition made no difference. 
The tech told me my sensors should be OK since the crank sensor would not even allow my car to start if faulty and the cam sensor seemed to have the correct voltage going to it however he did not check for continuity on the cam sensor but rather tested the voltage to it via the wiring which would give voltage regardless of a faulty sensor or not so I will check the continuity on that sensor today to be certain.

The tech advised me they would have to remove the valve cover and timing chain covers to see what is going on as they were totally stumped as too am I. 

It seems that my tensioner might be to blame and I have jumped a tooth as I am within the correct year and model to have this failure. 
This is my 6th VW product and always loved them but I think this will now be my last.


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## bmo1975 (Aug 30, 2016)

Just took my 2013 Tiguan in yesterday and it had the old version. It hasn't blown yet, but there was a rattle and was a bit sluggish. The dealer was aware of the problem and is fixing it under warranty. I'm at 57k miles.


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## sbcncsu (Nov 14, 2003)

bmo1975 said:


> Just took my 2013 Tiguan in yesterday and it had the old version. It hasn't blown yet, but there was a rattle and was a bit sluggish. The dealer was aware of the problem and is fixing it under warranty. I'm at 57k miles.


This is the first 2013 model Tiguan I have heard of that has the old tensioner! There is clearly no set date or VIN where the switch occurred.

Glad they are warrantying it for you.


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## bmo1975 (Aug 30, 2016)

sbcncsu said:


> This is the first 2013 model Tiguan I have heard of that has the old tensioner! There is clearly no set date or VIN where the switch occurred.
> 
> Glad they are warrantying it for you.



Thanks! I haven't seen it either. This is why I'm sharing it in multiple places. I was sure mine was ok.


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## B02S4 (Dec 26, 2012)

bmo1975 said:


> Just took my 2013 Tiguan in yesterday and it had the old version. It hasn't blown yet, but there was a rattle and was a bit sluggish. The dealer was aware of the problem and is fixing it under warranty. I'm at 57k miles.


Is your Tig still under the 5yr/60k mi factory power train warranty, correct?


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## Bobenis (Nov 13, 2004)

bmo1975 said:


> Just took my 2013 Tiguan in yesterday and it had the old version. It hasn't blown yet, but there was a rattle and was a bit sluggish. The dealer was aware of the problem and is fixing it under warranty. I'm at 57k miles.


Yikes...so essentially VW is using left over defective parts that they know are a serious safety issue without any sort of concern? :sly:
After the whole lying about emissions that is now pouring over to Audi, the last thing they need to be doing is ignoring this elephant in the room and just hope the safety issue arises post warranty. 
I will never support these con artists again...


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## bmo1975 (Aug 30, 2016)

Yeah, it is still under warranty. I had a problem with the ignition coils, so I brought it in for that. I told them about the rattle and being unsure if I had the old tensioner, so while they were doing the diagnostics for the CEL, I had them inspect the tensioner. The techs didn't think it sounded right either, they saw it was the old version. They drove it and said the car didn't feel right, so they're fixing it. I have to pay a $70 diagnostic fee for the ignition coils (that's what the light was for), but they're covering everything else.

This is my first VW. I bought it because I knew their value had dropped because of the TDI scandal. I was unaware of the tensioner problem at the time... but I can't really get mad at them. I knew I got a great deal because of past problems. We'll see how the rest of it goes...


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## bmo1975 (Aug 30, 2016)

Bobenis said:


> Yikes...so essentially VW is using left over defective parts that they know are a serious safety issue without any sort of concern? :sly:
> After the whole lying about emissions that is now pouring over to Audi, the last thing they need to be doing is ignoring this elephant in the room and just hope the safety issue arises post warranty.
> I will never support these con artists again...


My build date was 7/12, so probably one of the earlier '13s.


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## Bobenis (Nov 13, 2004)

Well my tensioner did not fail, thankfully, however it had forward and reverse play in it so the tech is replacing it (it should not move inward at all but the clip was still on it). 
However the upper portion of the cam balancer bolt and housing had a metal screen failure and most likely clogged the oil pressure in that balancer hence causing my chain to jump and throw the p0016 code. 
That particular part was recalled for all Audi's that had that part and corresponding engine however they decided to kick us VW owners in the junk and did not recall it for us owners! :banghead:
That part is $400 for a small chunk of metal with an updated screen to filter the oil and we are held responsible to pay for and have the work done when it fails. 
THis will end up costing me a good $1500 for all the work now. 
I am so done with VW/Audi now...they had my loyalty for the past 14 years but that has come to an end.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Do you know if the Audi recall was on the ccta engine or the caeb? Also, what are you oil change interval son the Tiguan?


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## bmo1975 (Aug 30, 2016)

shawng said:


> Do you know if the Audi recall was on the ccta engine or the caeb? Also, what are you oil change interval son the Tiguan?


If you were asking me about mine. 

Short version: Lightly driven CPO, oil changes every 10k miles by previous owner; 5k intervals going forward...

Long version: Mine was a CPO turned in last spring with 44k miles. It was female driven, in showroom condition, seriously not a scratch or a mark. My dad thought it was brand new even after knowing it was a 2013. She did all the scheduled maintainance (every 10k), but nothing in between. One of the office workers for the dealer drove it for 5k miles and I bought it with 49k miles. At 52k miles, I was concerned about the oil changes so I brought it to a local dealer but they turned me away because they said it was just serviced at 44k miles. I went back to the salesman who sold it to me and he had them do the 50k service for free (at 52K miles)... I plan on intervals of 5k, and am at 57k, so the next Friday I have off, I'm having my mechanic change the oil. He's serviced my family's Jaguars, Mercedes, Lexus, Infinitis, etc, so he's qualified... no Jiffy Lube for our vehicles.


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## Kowgod (Aug 27, 2001)

Add my 2012 GTI (mfg date in 2011) to the list of useless paperweights. My engine skipped time on a cold start and immediately died. I don't even really know if it turned over or not. It just cranked and died. My independent mechanic thought it was the timing chain tensioner and suggested I bring it to the dealership, which I have done, but I am getting the run around from the dealership. They're trying to tell me how hard it is to diagnose a failed tensioner, while offering me a new engine estimate of $9800.00.

I'm over the time on my powertrain warranty (by 7 months) but under the mileage (I'm at 54,000), so I'm trying to cover my bases and open a case with VWOA. I know my chances are slim, but I can't even get the dealer to confirm whether it's the tensioner or not to start with.

Very frustrating, and I know I'm most likely just in for more frustration.

All I've ever owned are VWs, and I love, love, love my GTI, but this whole ordeal has me very disheartened.


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## HellasLEAF (Mar 15, 2016)

What can a person do? 2012 VW Tiguan 4motion 

I am at 119,000 and passed 5 years, so powertrain it out of warranty.

They told when I took it in (light was on) that the tensioner failed, causing timing chain to skip, which caused damage to one of the valves, but worse than that, this metal filter had blown apart (he showed me) and those metal pieces could be anywhere within the engine.

I was told, basically, that I would need to replace the engine. 

Any advice from people with this issue? It's a brutal blow, being a student part time, with already a few fixes under my belt, but this is a killing blow to my finances..


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## Qmulus (Sep 5, 2015)

HellasLEAF said:


> What can a person do? 2012 VW Tiguan 4motion
> 
> I am at 119,000 and passed 5 years, so powertrain it out of warranty.
> 
> ...


Well, you are not alone. You probably have more than one bent valve, and probably 8, but it really doesn't matter if it is one or 16 as the head has to come off to fix it. The metal screen in the cam bridge tearing out is common. I have had that on three of the engines that I have pulled apart and have always found the pieces in the vacuum pump screen/restrictor. I have heard that they can also find their way into the spool valve on the intake cam, but haven't seen that yet.

Do you need to replace the engine? PROBABLY not, unless the engine was running when the failure occurred, but the real damage won't be known until the engine is disassembled. Usually the damage happens when you go to start, you hear a bad noise and it doesn't start. The noise was the chain jumping and pistons hitting valves. The determining factor if you need an engine is if valves broke and damaged the head, pistons and cylinder bores. That normally only occurs if the chain jumped while the engine was running, which is not common. A shop can tell by looking through the spark plug holes with a bore scope and looking at the pistons. Light marks on the pistons are not a concern, but if the heads of the valves are broken, then you will likely need an engine.

In my experience, a shop will charge around $3k to $4k to replace the head with a new replacement and replace the timing chain components (tensioner, chain, guides). If it just has bent valves, the head can be rebuilt for a bit less than a replacement head, but considering the additional time it takes it often isn't worth it. 

If you went with a used replacement engine, you will be at $5k+ and I would make sure that the tensioner and chain was replaced on that or you will be in the boat again.

If you sell the Tiguan with the damaged engine, it is worth $2500 to $3k at most in my experience. Whoever buys it has to factor those same costs as if it needs an engine, otherwise it makes more sense just to buy a good one.


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

In the mid 90's when I was in college, I had a Mk1 GTI I stored at my dad's garage, and drove two Mk2 Golfs with missing door handles or radios. I didn't pay more than $1k for both of them. I made sure I put new brakes and snow tires, that's it. Drove all over for my intern job, and seeing my son on the weekends. I did break down once, dead battery. 

HellasLEAF I'm not going to say "you're doing it all wrong" owning a nicer car. I really hope for some good fortune for your car situation as a student. eace:


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## HellasLEAF (Mar 15, 2016)

Very much appreciate the response Qmulus.

I was told that the issue was not so much the one valve that was bent (or damaged in some way) but more so the small metal pieces that could be anywhere (he said) and would need to take apart the engine entirely and even then. Essentially he is getting at it almost isn't worth it for all that labor (but maybe it really could be saved with a bit of work/due diligence I dunno).

Can I get VW assistance here? If I get it diagnosed and escalate it to VW Canada? I am reading conflicting things here.


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## Qmulus (Sep 5, 2015)

HellasLEAF said:


> Very much appreciate the response Qmulus.
> 
> I was told that the issue was not so much the one valve that was bent (or damaged in some way) but more so the small metal pieces that could be anywhere (he said) and would need to take apart the engine entirely and even then. Essentially he is getting at it almost isn't worth it for all that labor (but maybe it really could be saved with a bit of work/due diligence I dunno).
> 
> Can I get VW assistance here? If I get it diagnosed and escalate it to VW Canada? I am reading conflicting things here.


In my experience, the metal screen in the cam bridge ususally breaks out in one or two big pieces, and those usually end up in the screen/restrictor in the vacuum pump at the back of the head. I have also heard that the parts sometimes end up in the spool valve in the intake valve, messing up the intake cam adjuster requiring a new intake cam. That is probably the worst case. Those are pretty much the only real options for where the parts could end up.

Honestly, I would bet that most vehicles with this engine has the screen broken if they have a lot of miles and/or long oil change intervals. I would not worry about that. 

My suggestion if you want to get out of this as inexpensively as possible is to have them put the engine in time, replace the tensioner and chain, remove the remnants of the cam bridge screen and put it all back together. If it was running when you brought it in, I highly doubt that you have bent valves, unless it continued to jump at the shop and they turned it over. I never use the starter on these if the chain may have jumped, but rather turn it by hand to see if the pistons are touching valves as you can feel it. If you use the starter, the starter has enough torque to bend the valves and you would barely notice it when it does. 

On a good note, I saw one last week that jumped but the owner stopped driving once the light came on and it made noise. The shop put it back in time, changed the chain and tensioner and it was good to go. It only jumped a couple of teeth. If yours was still running, I bet you will be lucky too.


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

We were contemplating buying a 2012 Tiggy at a stealer-ship to replace our rusty but trusty MK4 wagon. Tiguan was very low mileage, it drove very nice, 6spd manual, we liked -- but the clutch felt kind of numb (CDV valve?).

Anyhow, I go home to sleep on it and do a little more research and begin to learn about this 2.0t tsi tensioner issue. I asked the dealership to check which version of the tensioner was on the car and they told me that the everyone of the internet was lying about the frequency of timing chain tensioner issues and they don't see this at all. Seems like a real issue to me, given the description of how that first version tensioner fails. 

They weren't even willing to put it up on their hoist for the hour to determine this to make a sale. :screwy:


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## Ohio Tiguan (Feb 9, 2012)

Run away! The proposed recall tells you everything you need to know. I would have shoved that fact at them.


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## Project_2501 (Apr 21, 2008)

Itsamoto said:


> We were contemplating buying a 2012 Tiggy at a stealer-ship to replace our rusty but trusty MK4 wagon. Tiguan was very low mileage, it drove very nice, 6spd manual, we liked -- but the clutch felt kind of numb (CDV valve?).
> 
> Anyhow, I go home to sleep on it and do a little more research and begin to learn about this 2.0t tsi tensioner issue. I asked the dealership to check which version of the tensioner was on the car and they told me that the everyone of the internet was lying about the frequency of timing chain tensioner issues and they don't see this at all. Seems like a real issue to me, given the description of how that first version tensioner fails.
> 
> They weren't even willing to put it up on their hoist for the hour to determine this to make a sale. :screwy:


I wouldn't purchase a vehicle from that dealership on principal based on poor customer support skills. Vote with your wallet! (And if they're properly bad, file a complaint with corporate VW - wouldn't be the first time a consumer got a dealership closed for being garbage.)


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## loopless (Oct 4, 2007)

Itsamoto said:


> We were contemplating buying a 2012 Tiggy at a stealer-ship to replace our rusty but trusty MK4 wagon. Tiguan was very low mileage, it drove very nice, 6spd manual, we liked -- but the clutch felt kind of numb (CDV valve?).
> 
> Anyhow, I go home to sleep on it and do a little more research and begin to learn about this 2.0t tsi tensioner issue. I asked the dealership to check which version of the tensioner was on the car and they told me that the everyone of the internet was lying about the frequency of timing chain tensioner issues and they don't see this at all. Seems like a real issue to me, given the description of how that first version tensioner fails.
> 
> They weren't even willing to put it up on their hoist for the hour to determine this to make a sale. :screwy:



Why don't you put your VIN into the https://timingchainlitigation.com to see if the vehicle would be included in the settlement and thus would have had a problem.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Has anyone died or had injuries as a result of the tensioner failure?

That's usually something that would trigger a recall

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Wolfsburg007 (Apr 21, 2011)

I just bought a 2012 that had engine failure due to timing chain failure. Vw replaced the long block and turbo. Has 1200 miles on motor now. Have all the paper work got it when it had 50 miles on new motor. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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