# Second Cam Follower Inspection\Replacement at 80k miles



## JEttaVR66Spd (Jun 9, 2005)

I have replaced my cam follower for the second time. The first cam follower was replaced at 45k miles. I just now reached 80k miles and I have replaced the cam follower again. I am creating this thread not only to help others, but to document my work as well.
The car is a 2005.5 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro, 6 speed manual.
Here is a link to the original thread from my first replacement:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3940922
Here is a link to a complete photo album of my recent replacement:
https://goo.gl/photos/YJkumsEq5crSwSgx9
Brief history of the car and mods in order to understand the life of the engine:
23k miles - I bought the car used
30k miles - poly engine mount, forge blow off spacer
35k miles - I had the car flashed with APR 93 Octane tune
40k miles - Coil-overs and sway bars
4?k miles - Inspected the Cam Follower for the first time. https://goo.gl/photos/WT1PJFtVnzjWHV9M7 
45k miles - *Replaced the Cam follower for the first time.* https://goo.gl/photos/8BcSyb1yxXDxPYcD7 
50k miles - Inspected Cam Follower. https://goo.gl/photos/zoyFVyAWDUgLoSyr6 
55k miles - Inspected Cam Follower. https://goo.gl/photos/FMtCnV3cqtKTvCyh9 
70k miles - Inspected Cam Follower. Sorry no pictures this time.
80k miles - *Replaced Cam Follower for the second time.* https://goo.gl/photos/YJkumsEq5crSwSgx9 
The oil was changed every 3300 miles with Mobil1 0W-40 from the time I bought the car, except the last oil change. I decided to run the last oil change for a longer interval of 10k miles, monitoring the oil quality closely to see if a car can actually run the dealer recommended 10k miles between oil changes. Results from that study are NO. The oil was decent 8k miles in to the test, but degraded quickly from 8k to 9.5k miles when I changed it. I don't recommend any one run a full 10k miles between oil changes, even with good oil. I will be returning to my 3300 mile interval for the remaining life of the car.
Please check out the links above for the whole story, but for those who just want a quick idea of what my follower looked like after 35k miles with a flash only ...
Here is a picture of the cam follower I just removed from the car:








From the looks of it the face of the cam follower looks to be "flaking" away, leaving small pits in the surface. My guess is this wasn't far from failing completely. Anyone else have sometime to try and explain the damage seen here?
Needless to say I will be inspecting the cam follower again soon, and replacing it again in the near future from the looks of things.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

the only oil you could push to 10k possibly with allot of highway miles would be redline.. 
Good write up though!
i am running the same OCI on 0W-40 as you are but will be switching to 5w-40 TDT next weekend and i will see how well it fairs in the engine.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

Awesome photos! 

What oil did you use from 40k miles to 80k miles? At what mileage was the 10k oil change interval run? Nice to see such thorough documentation!


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## Malaco0219 (Mar 18, 2007)

good info!

I guess yours is A Cam?


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

Malaco0219 said:


> good info!
> 
> I guess yours is A Cam?


2 things

1. VW recommends oil changes every 5k not 10k up until late 09. Now with that being said the engines in 06 vs. 2010 are different but simular. Did you just look at the oil and say it was bad or did you actually send it off to get tested...

2. I see all of these people replacing these followers but I hear nothing about the cams. At the dealership when we saw a follower like this the cam lobes were just as bad.


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## JEttaVR66Spd (Jun 9, 2005)

Malaco0219 said:


> good info!
> 
> I guess yours is A Cam?


Thank you. :thumbup:
I am just trying to help others out by showing what I have found out myself.

My engine was built in Jan 2005, I assume it is an A Cam. I have not taken the time to check ... it is a little hard to get to on my car.


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## JEttaVR66Spd (Jun 9, 2005)

saaber2 said:


> Awesome photos!
> 
> What oil did you use from 40k miles to 80k miles? At what mileage was the 10k oil change interval run? Nice to see such thorough documentation!


I have always used Mobil 1 0W-40 in this car. The 10k was from 70k to 80k miles.


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## JEttaVR66Spd (Jun 9, 2005)

theguy1084 said:


> 2 things
> 
> 1. VW recommends oil changes every 5k not 10k up until late 09. Now with that being said the engines in 06 vs. 2010 are different but simular. Did you just look at the oil and say it was bad or did you actually send it off to get tested...
> 
> 2. I see all of these people replacing these followers but I hear nothing about the cams. At the dealership when we saw a follower like this the cam lobes were just as bad.


1) I know the suggested interval is 5k and not 10k, but I have talked to many people that insist on only changing the oil during their scheduled 10k mile maintenance intervals. I was just checking the oil myself or color, clarity, cold viscosity and warm viscosity. It was all done subjectively, I didn't send any of it out for analysis. The reason I determined the oil was "bad" was the fact that it was inconsistent. Some was dark brown with decent clarity, and some was close to black with visible solids suspended. It had also become a bit "tacky" compared to the last check about 1000 miles earlier. Over 90% of the mileage during the 10k run was highway miles (70 mph), with 8% being around town, and roughly 2% at ~40 mph 2 lanes. Being this was tested in Indiana, 99% of the roads were straight and flat.

2) From my inspections, it seems the cams are a harder material. I could see replacing the cams if the wear justified it. On some engines the cam and follower may be wearing together, which would require the replacement of both. On my engine the cam has been going for 93k miles now and I am on my 3rd follower. The cam looks the same today as it did at 40k miles when I inspected it. I think with my driving style, oil selection, and maintenance interval, I'll be doing a new follower every ~30k miles and keeping my original cam for a long time.


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## GERHARD PETZER (Jan 21, 2004)

Have you logged rail pressure to check and see if you are still meeting the requested pressure?


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## stretch815 (May 3, 2007)

*Second CAM follower Inspection\replacement at 80K*

I wish I'd seen this sooner. Mine is a 2007 that I purchased with 6K and installed APR 93 flash, intake and exhaust. Now at 112K had to take it to dealer to get the injectors replaced along with the valve cleaning done. Dealer called me the next day to share that my follower was gone and it has taken the intake cam shaft with it. I have the dealer change the oil at 5K intervals, replaced the timing belt at 100K. Finally got Audi and the dealer to split the cost of the cam shaft and eat the labor to install that. Still paid 2500 for the new injectors, cleaning of the valves...

Anyway runs great again, at 50K I'll have the Cam follower replaced.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

stretch815 said:


> I wish I'd seen this sooner. Mine is a 2007 that I purchased with 6K and installed APR 93 flash, intake and exhaust. Now at 112K had to take it to dealer to get the injectors replaced along with the valve cleaning done. Dealer called me the next day to share that my follower was gone and it has taken the intake cam shaft with it. I have the dealer change the oil at 5K intervals, replaced the timing belt at 100K. Finally got Audi and the dealer to split the cost of the cam shaft and eat the labor to install that. Still paid 2500 for the new injectors, cleaning of the valves...
> 
> Anyway runs great again, at 50K I'll have the Cam follower replaced.


I'm surprised they paid for any of it at 120k miles. At least a small positive.


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## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

So you're pretty much concluding that tuning is harder on cam followers?

It appears the original follower was in fantastic shape, and then as soon as you upped the output, the follower started to get trashed.

Not sure if this is the right conclusion to make, or if just over time components lose their tolerance and the pumps are just harder in general on the follower and cam.

Thoughts?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

tunes are not harder on the pump. the pump works at the speed of the cam. last i checked, the cam isnt controlled by your tune.

your right foot is the culprit, plus with direct metal on metal contact, alot of little blemished WILL build up as the cam ages, no matter how well taken care of it is, and this will most certainly result in increased wear and tear on your much softer follower, which also can accelerate wear and tear on the cam. deadly cycle.

if people let their cars warm up for like 10 miles before they started thrashing on the car, id bet wear rates would plummet. thats why your normal joe shmoe who babies the car and drives like a sane person doesnt have that many issues... whereas we, the people who want speed and want to rev the piss out of our engine as soon as the temp gauge reads normal. :laugh:


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## Malaco0219 (Mar 18, 2007)

Krieger said:


> tunes are not harder on the pump. the pump works at the speed of the cam. last i checked, the cam isnt controlled by your tune.
> 
> your right foot is the culprit, plus with direct metal on metal contact, alot of little blemished WILL build up as the cam ages, no matter how well taken care of it is, and this will most certainly result in increased wear and tear on your much softer follower, which also can accelerate wear and tear on the cam. deadly cycle.
> 
> if people let their cars warm up for like 10 miles before they started thrashing on the car, id bet wear rates would plummet. thats why your normal joe shmoe who babies the car and drives like a sane person doesnt have that many issues... whereas we, the people who want speed and want to rev the piss out of our engine as soon as the temp gauge reads normal. :laugh:


Now, I don't understand how Rysski's cam follower is like mint condition after 30k miles w/ stg 2 + and W/M, and he beats on his car.

I think there's more to it than just beating your car.

http://www.idub.ca/showthread.php?429-Cam-follower-41098KM&p=12225&viewfull=1#post12225

There's a pic of his cam follower.

Freq oil change seems to be a large culprit as well.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

Malaco0219 said:


> Now, I don't understand how Rysski's cam follower is like mint condition after 30k miles w/ stg 2 + and W/M, and he beats on his car.
> 
> I think there's more to it than just beating your car.
> 
> ...


yes, frequent oil changes can help alot, but all of the cam followers will fail. you also have to look at the driving conditions and cant just say that someone beats on their car just because its been modified... you also have to look at where they drive: highway? stop and go? lots of short trips? driving too hard when she isnt really warmed and ready? all of these effect the oil thus they effect the wear on the cam and cam follower.


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## JEttaVR66Spd (Jun 9, 2005)

*Updated Links to Pictures*

I noticed all the photo links are broken. They should all be working again! ic:


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