# VR6T: School me on compressor surge



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I just got my VR6 back together and drove it for a day or so on the WG spring to make sure it was GTG. Once the fuel trims and everything checked out I started turning it up slowly until I got to about 18 psi. Pulled like a raped ape, but I am getting compressor surge under full load. I mean a audible whistle from the turbo and erratic boost readings. AFR's stayed in the low 11's and it really did not effect power.

Since I know it will come up, specs are as follows.
1996 GTI VR6.
9:1 HS.
DSR 256 118 lobe center turbo cams.
Walbro 255.
Kinetic manni, DP.
Garrett T3/4E 60 trim with .82 back housing with a stage 3 turbine P trim.
Tial sport 38mm 1 bar spring rec to DP.
Eurosport 2.5in catback with gutted cat.
CXracing intercooler and piping.
Jaun SRI.
710N DV.
UM 42# file.
If anyone needs any other info, just ask.

Pics of the setup:
Overview








Hotside, DV source is from bottom of manifold.








Turbo area








Boost gauge and MBC hook ups at brake booster line prior to check valve.









The next turboholic in training.:laugh: He picked it up on his own and was trying to imitate me putting on a T-bolt clamp.










Any and all comments are welcome as long as its civil and helps me cure or find out why this is happening. TIA everybody!


----------



## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

You shouldn't be getting compressor surge.. check your DV and check your turbo for in and out play.w


----------



## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

If power isn't affected at all then not sure it can be surge. Real surge is pretty abrupt and pretty much takes you out of a pull. Not sayin it aint surge, just sayin. Have you boost leak tested to 20psi+? If it is surge then you are basically overboosting (the engine is not able to consume all the air available) which can be boost signals not getting to the WG properly. How is the WG plumbed?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

sp_golf said:


> You shouldn't be getting compressor surge.. check your DV and check your turbo for in and out play.w


Check to make sure it hold s vac you mean? Will do and report back.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

vergessen wir es said:


> If power isn't affected at all then not sure it can be surge. Real surge is pretty abrupt and pretty much takes you out of a pull. Not sayin it aint surge, just sayin. Have you boost leak tested to 20psi+? If it is surge then you are basically overboosting (the engine is not able to consume all the air available) which can be boost signals not getting to the WG properly. How is the WG plumbed?


WG is getting its vac/boost source from the brake booster hose prior to the check valve. If you look in the pic of the MBC, you can see that it only has about 6in of line. No spiking, so I will leave it there. I will go out and fab up a boost pressure tester of sorts and report back, though I am sure there are no leaks in the joints. 

So a boost leak could cause surge? Could the WG be sticking and not opening all the way?

Thanks for the replies BTW.:thumbup:


----------



## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

GinsterMan98 said:


> So a boost leak could cause surge? Could the WG be sticking and not opening all the way?


The boost leak test is just a whistle sweeper that's all. I just wasn't sure if you were really seeing surge with no power effects. When this thing happens does it feel like the whole system is unloading and needs to spool up again? Does it make you want to lift the accelerator? Or are you able to drive through it? And yes a closed WG = surge/overboost if the engine can't consume the extra air.

A boost leak can cause surge, like if the WG diaphragm is torn or the connections near the WG are leaking and not allowing the WG to open.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

No unloading, you can drive though it just fine. Pulls really hard too, so its hard to pay attention to the boost gauge sometimes.


----------



## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

Dan we had that issue on the yellow VRT on 20+psi, the dv was bad and creeping open, just a thought.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I thought the 710N could hold more than 20? I will check the diaphrams on both the DV and WG when I get home. I am also plotted my setup on a 60 trim T04E compressor map and it looks like anthing over 18 psi below 5k will be across the surge limit line. I will post up my math and the graph when I get home. I know others have pushed this turbo to 20 with no surge, though its close to the limit of the turbo on this motor in terms of CFM. I think its either the DV, a boost leak or the WG being stupid.

Thanks Brandon for the insight though.:thumbup:

Keep it coming.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Some more info 
Starts to spool at 3,000 rpm
15 psi by 3,200 rpm
20 psi by 4,700 rpm


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

I get very erratic boost readings when I source my gauge from those nipples on the brake booster line. Once I move the source to the manifold, everything is good though.

If you were getting surge, you would know it. Surge happens under high load, low RPM situations, not WOT pulls. I don't think it would even be possible for the VR6 to surge that turbo.

What exactly is happening that is concerning you? It sounds like it boosts and pulls fine? 


EDIT - Did some leg work for you. TO4E compressor map:










Using 250 cfm for the 12v VR6, that gives an air flow of ~17.5 lbs/min. You won't get near the surge line unless you get upwards of 40 lbs.


EDIT #2 - You're going to kill your O2 sensors quick with them being that close to the turbine exit.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Where do you get 40 psi from? It looks to me to be about a PR ~2... which would be ~15 psi gauge.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I am ashamed too admit I know what the problems is. The intercooler I picked to fit behind my bumper is to small to flow anything over 15 psi. 130 dollar mistake, its the only other thing that could cause the turbo to choke. Let this be a lesson to others that are turbocharging there car, do not buy an intercooler without know its flow rate. 

If I have to replace an o2 every now and then I am ok with that. There is a reason they are there, response time is way shorter. This is one of the mods I did to make the fueling even and stable as possible. The second is the turbo inlet, the dv vents almost right at the turbo while the maf is atleat 1.5 ft away. The intake then turns down where the evap canister was keeping false air from having a direct path at the maf (down fall of the kinetics style inlet). Part throttle is very stable with with no stumbling or lean spikes ( like my other setup did). O2's can handle around 1500F before they are prone to failure, I am only seeing 1100F at the sensors. I know its a risk, but it is working well. Atleast thats what I have come to understand. Opinions on this are welcome.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

leebro61 said:


> Where do you get 40 psi from? It looks to me to be about a PR ~2... which would be ~15 psi gauge.


2 is 15psi on the dot. 2.36 would be 20 psi. I also don't understand the 17.5 lb/min? You need about 40 lb/min for 400 crank or 570 CFM.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

This is kind of semantics, but actually: PR = (atmospheric + gauge pressure)/atmospheric ... and atmospheric is ~14.7 psi near sea level, less at higher elevations. That would mean that a gauge pressure of ~14.7 psi is a PR of 2.

I also agree that 17.5 lbm/min seems too low.

Why do you think your intercooler is a restriction? I would be very surprised if that were the case.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

You are correct, Its not on the dot, lol. 

Why do I think this, it's because nothing else is wrong with the system. I am not the only person that has pushed near 20 psi on a T04E, but I can't on my setup. Means my IC can't flow the amount of air demanded, causing the turbo to surge. If the IC is hindering flow than I just put myself farther left on the plot.:banghead: It occurs at 15 psi+, does my theory makes sense? WG, DV and all boost connections checked out fine. Injectors are not leaking, all gaskets are new and were torqued. Holds 17 in hg at idle which is fine for a lowered CR engine with cams IMO. 

I appreciate the responses guys.:thumbup:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

sp_golf said:


> You shouldn't be getting compressor surge.. check your DV and check your turbo for in and out play.w


 C/W, DV is gtg and the turbo has no in and out and minor radial play. I turned it down to 10 psi until I sort this, Don't have the cash for a new turbo. It's faster on 10 then it was before though.:laugh:


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

GinsterMan98 said:


> 2 is 15psi on the dot. 2.36 would be 20 psi. I also don't understand the 17.5 lb/min? You need about 40 lb/min for 400 crank or 570 CFM.


You measure based on the air flow of the stock motor. The turbo doesn't add to your engine's ability to spin a bigger turbo.




leebro61 said:


> Where do you get 40 psi from? It looks to me to be about a PR ~2... which would be ~15 psi gauge.


You don't draw the line straight up vertically. Back to compressor map reading 101 with you.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

To tell you the truth, I just started looking at this stuff today so excuse my ignorance. What do you think of my theory?
FML.


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Find the flow rate on your intercooler. I find it hard to believe that you are actually experiencing surge with the symptoms that you describe, though. 

You say it had a loud whistle and erratic boost readings, but didn't effect power. That's not compressor surge. Is your compressor housing ported? If you want to get rid of the erratic boost readings, stop taking your source from the brake booster line and move it to the manifold. Having the [not airtight] check valve in the same line as where you're taking your reading from will screw with what your gauge actually sees.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

I still don't think it's your intercooler size. If the intercooler were too small, it may cause excessive pressure drop but it would have to be ridiculously small to actually restrict your airflow. For the hell of it, what is the height and width of the core?

These other people running TO4e's to 20+psi... are they t4 exhaust wheels/housings?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

No, the check valve holds just fine, I tested the line today, no leaks up to 30 psi. I also tried at the compressor housing with the same result, that's where it was originally. I thought maybe the line was too long or something. To be honest I have never driven a car with this much power so It may be losing power for all I know, power comes on later than it used to. The gauge is not fluttering, it is erratically changing up and down = real compressor surge.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

leebro61 said:


> I still don't think it's your intercooler size. If the intercooler were too small, it may cause excessive pressure drop but it would have to be ridiculously small to actually restrict your airflow. For the hell of it, what is the height and width of the core?
> 
> These other people running TO4e's to 20+psi... are they t4 exhaust wheels/housings?





> websaabn
> Dan we had that issue on the yellow VRT on 20+psi, the dv was bad and creeping open, just a thought.


One right here, he did it on a stage three wheel with a .63ar housing. Was it efficient, no but he was able to do it.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

djsheijkdfj said:


> You don't draw the line straight up vertically. Back to compressor map reading 101 with you.


I wasn't trying to plot a line... I was approximating at what pressure ratio that compressor would surge at the flow rate you mentioned. Maybe I misunderstood your flow rate estimate, you were probably intending that the 17.5 lbm/min was a baseline, NA flow rate (aka PR of 1) that would obviously increase with increased PR?


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

leebro61 said:


> I wasn't trying to plot a line... I was approximating at what pressure ratio that compressor would surge at the flow rate you mentioned. Maybe I misunderstood your flow rate estimate, you were probably intending that the 17.5 lbm/min was a baseline, NA flow rate (aka PR of 1) that would obviously increase with increased PR?




The one that you would use to plot this application on the compressor map, yes. That one. How are you going to use a flow rate for 400 hp to see how the turbo would spool when you need the turbo spooled to reach 400 hp? It doesn't work that way, you use the air flow from the motor naturally aspirated, since that's what's spooling the turbo. Obviously it increases with increased PR, which is why the line isn't drawn vertically. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, since all you're doing is contradicting your 15 psi surge line that you threw out earlier.



THIS is compressor surge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCj6Spwl1CU

What you are describing is not. What spring is in your wastegate?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3638609-USP-450whp-VR6-TURBO

He has credit here right?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

djsheijkdfj said:


> The one that you would use to plot this application on the compressor map, yes. That one. How are you going to use a flow rate for 400 hp to see how the turbo would spool when you need the turbo spooled to reach 400 hp? It doesn't work that way, you use the air flow from the motor naturally aspirated, since that's what's spooling the turbo. Obviously it increases with increased PR, which is why the line isn't drawn vertically. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, since all you're doing is contradicting your 15 psi surge line that you threw out earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It sounds like that, only without the choking of the turbo. 
Big blue 1 bar, see first post.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

djsheijkdfj said:


> The one that you would use to plot this application on the compressor map, yes. That one. How are you going to use a flow rate for 400 hp to see how the turbo would spool when you need the turbo spooled to reach 400 hp? It doesn't work that way, you use the air flow from the motor naturally aspirated, since that's what's spooling the turbo. Obviously it increases with increased PR, which is why the line isn't drawn vertically. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, since all you're doing is contradicting your 15 psi surge line that you threw out earlier.


Thanks, that makes more sense now.:thumbup:


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

djsheijkdfj said:


> The one that you would use to plot this application on the compressor map, yes. That one. How are you going to use a flow rate for 400 hp to see how the turbo would spool when you need the turbo spooled to reach 400 hp? It doesn't work that way, you use the air flow from the motor naturally aspirated, since that's what's spooling the turbo. Obviously it increases with increased PR, which is why the line isn't drawn vertically. I'm not sure what you're getting at here, since all you're doing is contradicting your 15 psi surge line that you threw out earlier.


I'm not getting at or trying to contradict anything. Earlier I misunderstood you (my mistake)... I thought you were implying that he should be flowing 17.5 lbm/min at ~20 psi (where he is experiencing surge). If I plot that *single point* it's outside the surge limits of that compressor. Obviously that is not what you were intending and we are on the same page now. I'm watching the stanley cup finals on tv and glancing at the computer... gimme a break.


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Fair enough.

To touch on that note though, using the 40 lbs/min number that you provided, you would need to hit about 30 psi to touch the surge line.



GinsterMan98 said:


> It sounds like that, only without the choking of the turbo.
> Big blue 1 bar, see first post.


The turbo choking is the compressor surge. 

What are the exact symptoms that you're experiencing? What boost do you see running on just the wastegate spring?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Well, I have no means of logging it, but around 14. So your saying that I may have an issue with my MBC? How should I run it then? I am open to the experts here, I just want this damn car to work to justify the cost of the upgrade.

lets just forget about compressor maps for now, I have more reading to do. Cut me some slack.

Maybe I could get a sound recording, would that help?


----------



## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

Sure, audio would help. I ran into surge when I used a poor/unstable source for my EBC which caused overboost and surge at WOT throttle, just like the synapse vid. It was bad enough that I still feel lucky that everything survived. Only had it that way for a couple pulls but yikes.

For a test you might run off the spring alone without the MBC and see where that puts you. Where is your boost gauge connected? If you have a comp cover port, then I might suggest monitoring that pressure for a test since it is probably more than a little bit higher than manifold. This could just be a case of overboosting because of signal delay from the MBC or other boost reference issue.

And I hate to bring up old faithful....spark. I know you just upgraded to ford coils and pushed the gap out. Might it be worthwhile to reel the gap in for a test. Sorry for this last one just trying to consider everything.

Not the place and time but looking at your build photos, looks very good but I noticed something. I highly recommend to use high grade steel bolts on your WG flange instead of stainless. I just had to helicoil one hole on my manifold due to a snapped off SS socket head cap screw. Had to totally dismantle my setup including removal of the kinetic manifold itself. Anyway I went with grade 12.9. And I did use a high grade 2400 deg F anti seize on the original ss and it still failed on removal. SS is just too weak for that location.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

vergessen wir es said:


> Sure, audio would help. I ran into surge when I used a poor/unstable source for my EBC which caused overboost and surge at WOT throttle, just like the synapse vid. It was bad enough that I still feel lucky that everything survived. Only had it that way for a couple pulls but yikes.
> 
> For a test you might run off the spring alone without the MBC and see where that puts you. Where is your boost gauge connected? If you have a comp cover port, then I might suggest monitoring that pressure for a test since it is probably more than a little bit higher than manifold. This could just be a case of overboosting because of signal delay from the MBC or other boost reference issue.
> 
> ...


I am 100% sure it is not spark related, feels to good to come back down, lol. Never going to run anything less than .030 again. You should do it, its like 15 bucks at a pick and pull.

Tomorrow I will try and just run it on the WG spring, got to get some more vac line to run it off the cover.

I will also take your advice and swap the bolts, I got some other ones laying around that I can throw in there.

My last VRT was ghetto, but it made good power and went pretty quick. I tried really hard to think this one out so it would work the best it can, given my pocket depth and not look bad when you pop the hood. Thanks for the kind words.:thumbup:


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

You say you see around 14 pounds off just the wastegate but earlier you mentioned that you had it turned down to 10 pounds since you're having issues?

Run it on just the wastegate and let us know what you see. That $20 eBay MBC works great, I have one on my car, but you may be running too little preload for it.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I put the .5 bar spring in because I am worried about damaging the turbo, sorry for the confusion. :thumbup: I will swap it back over to the 1 bar and recheck what I am reading without the MBC installed. Glad to hear someone else likes the NXS MBC.:thumbup:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I never ran the car without the MBC installed, I just turned it down. I am also going to remove it and inspect the inside to see if something is wacky in there. I have swapped WG springs, I am sorry if I confused you all, I forgot to mention that detail.


----------



## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

My 2.9l with 262's surged very badly on anything over 16psi when I had a 60-1.
Swapped turbos and no more surge. Pushing over 30psi now

I'm wondering how big your source is for the wg...if your using one of those tiny barbs off the booster then that's probably an issue. Your source should be atleast the size of 6mm line and should slip easily over the tial barb fitting. Silicone intakes.com has perfect vac line for this.6mm.


----------



## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

dub_slug said:


> My 2.9l with 262's surged very badly on anything over 16psi when I had a 60-1. Swapped turbos and no more surge. Pushing over 30psi now


What cured the surge, T4?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

dub_slug said:


> My 2.9l with 262's surged very badly on anything over 16psi when I had a 60-1.
> Swapped turbos and no more surge. Pushing over 30psi now
> 
> I'm wondering how big your source is for the wg...if your using one of those tiny barbs off the booster then that's probably an issue. Your source should be atleast the size of 6mm line and should slip easily over the tial barb fitting. Silicone intakes.com has perfect vac line for this.6mm.


What do you guys think of the GT3782, It has a amazing compressor map. To bad it only comes in a T3 1.12 Ar housing.

I will take everyones advice on my WG plumbing and redo it to a larger line from the cover. I will post up what I find or if it works out. Thanks everyone for the help.:thumbup:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

vergessen wir es said:


> What cured the surge, T4?


Swapping the 60-1:laugh: That turbo does not like high pressures, they are prone to surging.


----------



## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

vergessen wir es said:


> What cured the surge, T4?


Went to a bigger, better turbo. Precision Billet 6265 T4 .81



GinsterMan98 said:


> Swapping the 60-1:laugh: That turbo does not like high pressures, they are prone to surging.


You do realize that the 60-1 is a to4e too, right? I had basically the same turbo as you...stage 3 whatever junk trim and an ANTI-surge compressor cover and the bitch still surged.
Don't waste your time with Garrett turbos. Get a real faking turbo and start making real faking power. Full boost at 4700 is a joke.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

dub_slug said:


> Went to a bigger, better turbo. Precision Billet 6265 T4 .81
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please don't get offended. I know my turbo sucks, but its what I got and I intend to use it to its max. Not everyone in here is made of money. When I max this turd out and get bored with it, I will hopefully have enough cash to get something better. No one starts out at the top and I do appreciate your advice and time. I am not here to argue over compressor maps or which turbo is better. I know this turbo should be able to support about 18 psi on my cookie cutter VRT, but it is not. Please don't get mad, I was only making a joke knowing you had put a real turbo in your car. Don't take my comment as the crappy turbo guy poking fun at you.


----------



## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

skipped the second half of the thread, so it's probably already been mentioned. are you actually getting compressor surge? or boost that isn't stable?

what wastegate spring are you using? sounds like you're using a ball-type mbc and might need a stronger spring?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I have a 1 bar, but I never ran it without the MBC. It is a ball type MBC, so you might be right. I just bought some larger vac line and will be redoing the plumbing and am going to try it with out the MBC first.


----------



## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Please don't get offended. I know my turbo sucks, but its what I got and I intend to use it to its max. Not everyone in here is made of money. When I max this turd out and get bored with it, I will hopefully have enough cash to get something better. No one starts out at the top and I do appreciate your advice and time. I am not here to argue over compressor maps or which turbo is better. I know this turbo should be able to support about 18 psi on my cookie cutter VRT, but it is not. Please don't get mad, I was only making a joke knowing you had put a real turbo in your car. Don't take my comment as the crappy turbo guy poking fun at you.


lol I'm not mad at all nor was I trying to attack you. I've just already been through this. And sorry to say but your probably already past the limits of your to4e at 18psi. The vr is a big motor and the 12v doesn't breathe like the best of em so cramming your boost in is needed. You also want to consider efficiency. A bigger turbo is not going to compress the air as much thus creating less heat. Less heat+ higher cfm= easier to make more power. 

I understand not everybody is made of money and neither am I but I work hard to get what I want in life. So rather than bitching about money; get a job lol. There are also cheaper alternatives out there. Out here in Colorado you can pick up a holset hx40 almost any day of the week for less than $400. I've seen one for $40, no lie. Going cheap On a turbo isn't something I would do but there are possibilities and a holset could get you what your looking for.


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

dub_slug said:


> lol I'm not mad at all nor was I trying to attack you. I've just already been through this. And sorry to say but your probably already past the limits of your to4e at 18psi.




The compressor map clearly shows that the TO4E is actually a very good match for the VR6, and that it's nowhere near its limits at 18 psi.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

dub_slug said:


> So rather than bitching about money; get a job lol.


Yeah, let me pull 1k out of my a$$ so everyone thinks I am cool because I have a "Baller" turbo.:laugh: I have stated my intentions with this build, which are obtainable. No reason to upgrade yet IMO. I appreciate your input though. Maybe when congress gives the military a 30% pay increase I will buy a bigger turbo.:thumbup:

I also work hard, I also have not been home atleast 13 months over the last two years. I have missed holidays, my son's first birthday, my birthday and countless other things in my life due to my job. I spend time with my family when I can and try to give my family the best I can, which means keeping my hobby in check sometimes.



> I've just already been through this.


Maybe you also had an underlying issue?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Did I read correctly that your feeding the wastegate a vac/boost signal, not just boost?

http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_wginstall.pdf

Id fix that first. I doubt its the issue, but its worth a shot to try it out.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Yes, I am switching back to the compressor cover. It did the same with the WG source at the turbo.
Thanks for the link.:thumbup:


----------



## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Yeah, let me pull 1k out of my a$$ so everyone thinks I am cool because I have a "Baller" turbo.:laugh: I have stated my intentions with this build, which are obtainable. No reason to upgrade yet IMO. I appreciate your input though. Maybe when congress gives the military a 30% pay increase I will buy a bigger turbo.:thumbup:
> 
> I also work hard, I also have not been home atleast 13 months over the last two years. I have missed holidays, my son's first birthday, my birthday and countless other things in my life due to my job. I spend time with my family when I can and try to give my family the best I can, which means keeping my hobby in check sometimes.
> 
> ...


Same setup, different turbo, no other changes and no more surge. Car runs great.
But that's too bad your job sucks and your a douche bag. I don't really care what other people think. I'm sure your little crappy turbo will do exactly what you want :thumbup: 
I bought my turbo because it was the largest unit I could afford at the time. Sold my 60-1 for $650 and got my 6265 for $850 dropshipped. $200 more out of my pocket??? F uck yea, sold. Not much to think about there. Try bringing your little crappy turbo up to 5,000+ ft elevation and see what happens lol


----------



## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

gets gangsta quick fast up in here.
Be proud GinsterMan98..you have been waiting a while to get a Vrt back on the road and you are close. Couple more tweaks.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

dub_slug said:


> Same setup, different turbo, no other changes and no more surge. Car runs great.
> But that's too bad your job sucks and your a douche bag. I don't really care what other people think. I'm sure your little crappy turbo will do exactly what you want :thumbup:
> I bought my turbo because it was the largest unit I could afford at the time. Sold my 60-1 for $650 and got my 6265 for $850 dropshipped. $200 more out of my pocket??? F uck yea, sold. Not much to think about there. Try bringing your little crappy turbo up to 5,000+ ft elevation and see what happens lol


It's ok, I will continue to deploy so you can sleep safe and sound you elitist f##k! GTFO of here you typical Vortex fanboi troll. You came in here looking for a fight with your cocky attitude. You ever been shot at while you work? Mortars falling 200 yards from you? Didn't think so... You are so cool with your VRT and your 6265 and your extensive knowledge of compressor maps and turbo's. I am not worthy to be in your presence.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

vergessen wir es said:


> gets gangsta quick fast up in here.
> Be proud GinsterMan98..you have been waiting a while to get a Vrt back on the road and you are close. Couple more tweaks.


Thanks, Gets hot in this section of the vortex with all the people running their mouths about dumb shiz. He must be compensating for something with his obvious need to have a fanclub and be cool for putting such a smack down on me, glad thats over... To tell you the truth, I don't know why I even made this thread. I was 90% sure someone would come in hear and turn this into something other than what it was. Thanks for the kind words.:thumbup:

Moving along, I decided to start back at square one with the .5 bar spring. As was suggested by a few people in here, I am now running a 6mm ID line from the compressor housing to the WG. I am seeing about 4 psi which makes sense to me due to the boost gauge being after the IC. Thoughts on this? Tomorrow or maybe Sat I will throw the 1 bar back in with no MBC and see if it has resolved the issue.

The barbs on the NXS MBC are not 5/16th, do you think this will cause a problem using it? Should I pony up and buy one with 5/16th barbs?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

vergessen wir es said:


> gets gangsta quick fast up in here.
> Be proud GinsterMan98..you have been waiting a while to get a Vrt back on the road and you are close. Couple more tweaks.


Everyone's blood pressure is up due to slcmycarrunsachipandisbetterthanasembecauseimanadultwithfinancialresponsibilitiesandigotoschooltogetacpasoyouralldumb



GinsterMan98 said:


> Thanks, Gets hot in this section of the vortex with all the people running their mouths about dumb shiz. He must be compensating for something with his obvious need to have a fanclub and be cool for putting such a smack down on me, glad thats over... To tell you the truth, I don't know why I even made this thread. I was 90% sure someone would come in hear and turn this into something other than what it was. Thanks for the kind words.:thumbup:
> 
> Moving along, I decided to start back at square one with the .5 bar spring. As was suggested by a few people in here, I am now running a 6mm ID line from the compressor housing to the WG. I am seeing about 4 psi which makes sense to me due to the boost gauge being after the IC. Thoughts on this? Tomorrow or maybe Sat I will throw the 1 bar back in with no MBC and see if it has resolved the issue.
> 
> The barbs on the NXS MBC are not 5/16th, do you think this will cause a problem using it? Should I pony up and buy one with 5/16th barbs?


Your pressure reference is before the i/c, so therefore your getting a bit of pressure drop. .5 bar spring is ~7.5 psi, figure in some error in a boost gauge etc.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Everyone's blood pressure is up due to slcmycarrunsachipandisbetterthanasembecauseimanadultwithfinancialresponsibilitiesandigotoschooltogetacpasoyouralldumb
> 
> 
> 
> Your pressure reference is before the i/c, so therefore your getting a bit of pressure drop. .5 bar spring is ~7.5 psi, figure in some error in a boost gauge etc.


Yeah, my gauge does sit at the lowest par of zero with the car off. Thanks , that makes me feel better as before with the smaller line I was seeing more than that. Makes me think this is just a boost control issue. Can't wait to find out.:thumbup:

First part made me almost spit my drink out.:laugh: He has given me some solid advice before, so I tend to not pick on him when he gets all crazy. I think deep down he is a good guy and I can relate to him because I have always had similar goals.


----------



## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

you could do a test and run your boost gauge line to a T at the compressor with the wastegate line and determine your pressure drop


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

You'll always see lower boost than the spring is rated at due to exhaust pressure pushing on the wastegate as well.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

djsheijkdfj said:


> You'll always see lower boost than the spring is rated at due to exhaust pressure pushing on the wastegate as well.


Yeah, that what I thought. I really appreciate everyones help, this has issue has made me frustrated.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

Dave926 said:


> Everyone's blood pressure is up due to slcmycarrunsachipandisbetterthanasembecauseimanadultwithfinancialresponsibilitiesandigotoschooltogetacpasoyouralldumb


LMAO 
Hope you get everything sorted... from my many yrs around the vortex (of course I've never owned a VR) I've seen many 12v runing 60-1's with over 20psi 400+whp....soooo dont' think that's your problem.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

GTijoejoe said:


> LMAO
> Hope you get everything sorted... from my many yrs around the vortex (of course I've never owned a VR) I've seen many 12v runing 60-1's with over 20psi 400+whp....soooo dont' think that's your problem.


I will figure it out, I am actally pretty sure it was the size of the WG line as was suggested by a few people. I don't know if I will have time to mess with it today, but I will post up what happens.:thumbup:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Ok, cars is running 10X better. I put the 1 bar back with no MBC and was seeing roughly 13 psi. Went ahead and put the MBC back in which I had slightly modified with 5/16ths barb fittings. I can turn it up too 18 psi with zero problems, clean boost signal and great power. If I turn it up too 20psi, the same stuff happen, just not nearly as bad. Still getting a fluctuating boost signal. I am thinking It has to be a leak somewhere in the system. I am going to rig up something to see if my DV is leaking. Maybe the injector seals? They are new, used oil to put them in. Anyone else?

Also swapped the hardware on the WG to steel bolts, thanks too* vergessen wir es* for catching that. I also hate stripped or seized bolts.

Do you guys think the 2.5in exhaust could just not be flowing enough? or the reccurc WG?

Car is much better though.:thumbup:


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I know the rule of thumb is never more than double your spring pressure, but maybe something just isnt playing ball here.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

I am not having issues @ 18psi, so I will just leave it there until its turbo upgrade time. Thanks to everyone who helped me and gave me suggestions, I only hope I can return the favor one day.:thumbup:


----------



## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

what you need to do is.... pull that turbo off and get a big supercharger.


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Cog drive F1-A. :thumbup:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

websaabn said:


> what you need to do is.... pull that turbo off and get a big supercharger.


Meh, who wants linear power delivery anyway, lol.


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Ok, after a long weekend of drinking and soul searching I decided to just pull the exhaust. I lost 2 psi of pressure, but it will hold a nice and steady 18 psi now. I will report back with better results after the rain stops, lol. I guess my eurosport cat back just can't flow enough, I feel stupid now.:banghead: Thanks everyone for the support, comments and helpful tips.:thumbup:


----------



## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

What are you thinking of running for exhaust?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> What are you thinking of running for exhaust?


I am unsure, maybe fab up a 3inch. The problem I was having is gone, but It will not hold 20psi to redline. Boost tapers off to 17psi at the top of third. Any ideas?


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Boost tapers off to 17psi at the top of third. Any ideas?




You're out of turbo.


----------



## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

wastegate creaping open?


----------

