# Wyotech.....



## burtonguy567 (Apr 24, 2005)

i know this isn't directly related to Forced induction but it is a little...im looking at going the wyotech(blairesville, PA)...im sure u guys have heard of it and some of u probrably have gone to one of the wyotech schools...i would just like to know how your exsperience was there and if it is good school, also if u have gone there how is there engine and chassis design course(turbos, superchargers, and obviously chassis design)....i don't know if ill get many reply's but i thought it was worth a shot


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## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Wyotech..... (burtonguy567)*

get at least an associates degree.......can't get paid jack or advance as far as someone with a degree. Just my 2 cents.


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## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: Wyotech..... (95GLS)*

Don't know too much about wyotech but im considering this school
http://samracing.com/


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## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

I graduated from that campus in 2004.Don't waste your time


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## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (Dubbed95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubbed95* »_I graduated from that campus in 2004.Don't waste your time 

explain?


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Dubbed95)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubbed95* »_I graduated from that campus in 2004.Don't waste your time 

ALL of these types of schools are a waste of time, they tell you that you'll make more than somebody that's been in the field 5 years and all this crap. When you get out, you'll still have trouble finding a job. These schools lack realistic situations, learning to rebuild a tranny there's like 4 bolts to get it apart, you look inside, slide it apart, put it back together, and put the 4 bolts back into the cover plate....
I have a buddy who graduated from UTI and went through the ford program, I have another who just got a job with Ford when we left to go to UTI. They both make the same amount of money anyways.....and the UTI guy should make more because the cost of living is higher where he's from.
The schools are a joke, you'd be better off going to a community college or just plain getting an apprenticeship. You don't want to blow 20k dollars on these schools when you can get reletively the same training through a community college.
I dropped out and joined the ARMY








I'm Master Certified now (look at sig) and I doubt I'll have any problems getting a job when I get out (although part of that is the fact that I'm military and places like to hire ex military)
As far as having a degree....it's not really all that applicable to the mechanic field....imho



_Modified by mechsoldier at 8:33 AM 10-9-2005_


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## 97VolkGT (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: Wyotech..... (burtonguy567)*

I went to the Blairsville school it wasn't that bad. I'm not going to tell you that it was a waste of time and not go to and that you will never get a job. But I will tell you to go there and look around. See if it's what you think you would want to do. There's nothing to do in that town at all tho. I did meet a lot of good guys tho. The engine and chassis class was the best class I took. You get to do a lot more of what you want to do. I think the basic engine management class sucked and was just about a waste of time tho. Think of it this way, If you really think that you are going to learn all of most of the thinks you need to know to be in the automotive Field in 6 months then you are on crack my friend.


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## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

thanx mechsolider


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (Dubbed95)*

I have met, hired, and worked with guys from UTI and Wyo. and the only thing they have in common are that they are broke. They can turn wrenches [some of them can] and are not half bad but for $20-25k that just is too much for me. I spent time at the community college [Everett CC] and I spent 18 month in their program. Spent time at a gas station and now I can say I have reached the top of the pack [ship pile]. I have made over $200k several times. UTI is not bad but is it needed or worth the money? I think not.


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## VR6-JettaIII (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: (Butcher)*

I'm at UTI right now in Exton PA and I'm actually liking it. For the first time I'm doing well in school, and I've learned a ton so far. They do alot of wicked cool **** when it comes to forced induction applications and even get into a little bit of tuning. Getting into one of the MSAT programs (Manufacturer Specific Automotive Training) will insure you a guaranteed rate of pay and a job once you graduate their programs, which is always a nice security to have. I go into school expecting to learn something everyday and I'm really enjoying it. 
On a side note however, alot of the kids that go to the school are douchebags. ALOT of them talk like they know everything and dont shut up, and alot of them really dont pay nearly as much attention as they should in classes. People take that stuff for granted because their parents are probably paying for it, where I'm paying for my schooling 100%. I can honestly say that the only thing holding me back is the students in the classes that really could give two ****s about doing anything and have no interest in the courses.
And that's my first hand opinion.
- Chris


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## VTmk3GTi (May 24, 2005)

*Re: (VR6-JettaIII)*

i just recently graduated from Blairsville campus.....as of like sept. 23rd. I will not say it was a waste of time because i learned a lot of things and if your learning something new everyday then it is not a waste of time. however it is deffinatley not worth the money..as of now i despise the school. they brag about helping with jobs and all this crap and they just are not that great at it. they make the school seem better then it really is..dont be fooled. you have to jump through a lot of hoops for them. i could go on all day about that place. FYI blairsville, PA and all of Western PA sucks.







im am very broke and have a lot of loans...grr. they cram everything and dont really take the time to give good explantions on lectures..they "rush" through them because they are on a time frame. i have heard nothing but good things about the chassis Fab with high performance engines. i have a lot of buddies that took the course and were very happy. the school just sucks. if you want to know more just IM me casanova686.
i never checked UTI out, but i would recommend it.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (VR6-JettaIII)*

I ran into the same issues at the school I went to. Some are know it alls and some think they are. You can tell which ones are paying their own way and you can tell which ones are having someone else pay. Some just are wasting time since that is all they have. You get what you give. If you really want to be a tech no one will change your mind. No school or some school either way you will get to where you want to get to with drive and commentment.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (VTmk3GTi)*

The BF may be looking for someone in the spring.It would require moving to minneapolis Mn though.


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## VTmk3GTi (May 24, 2005)

exactly. there is a lot of people that go to wyotech because they want to and thats what they want to do for a living and they pay their own way.....then you get the kids that are on their last chance to do anything with their life and their parents pay for them to go just to get them out of the house and all they do is f*** off in class and ruin your education. there were so many kids that were there that did not deserve to be there and act like little children!!


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: Wyotech..... (burtonguy567)*

HI! So you are looking at automotive school eh?
Well, Ill tell you from PERSONAL EXPERAINCE (I am sitting in my campus apartment now) that Pennsylvania College of Technology is THE BEST automotive school in PA. Hands down. Catch me on AIM, if you want to talk more about it. Same name as tex.
For a two year Automotive Associate Degree, it is great. Or if you are daring enough, you can come here for a four year Bacholers degree. (That is what I am currently doing) Open Admissions means if you had trouble in HS you are good. We are pampered with on campus apartments, you can live off campus your first year, you can have your car for your first year, it is great!


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (VTmk3GTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTmk3GTi* »_however it is deffinatley not worth the money..as of now i despise the school. they brag about helping with jobs and all this crap and they just are not that great at it. they make the school seem better then it really is..dont be fooled. you have to jump through a lot of hoops for them. 
i never checked UTI out, but i would recommend it.

This is the general sentiment that pretty much ALL UTI and Wyotech grads have. When I realized what a waste of time the school was I bailed and went into the ARMY so I could repay my loans and get back on my feet.

_Quote, originally posted by *VR6-JettaIII* »_They (UTI) do alot of wicked cool **** when it comes to forced induction applications and even get into a little bit of tuning. Getting into one of the MSAT programs (Manufacturer Specific Automotive Training) will insure you a guaranteed rate of pay and a job once you graduate their programs

I don't know how the Penn school differs, but in Phoenix it's a joke, bolt on an intake, bitch because it didn't gain anything (because the pavement is 160 degrees anyways) and then claim nothing but V8s can make power, put a chip in a GST eclipse, bolt a supercharger on a carbed V8, dyno it....blah blah. It's generic and most of the people who come out of that class STILL couldn't build their own turbosystem. The crap about a guaranteed rate of pay and a job once you graduate is BS, keep in mind you HAVE to take a job with that manufacturer even if it's in a state you don't want to move to and that's all they'll offer you or you have to pay them back for their program. 

_Quote, originally posted by *VTmk3GTi* »_as of now i despise the school. they brag about helping with jobs and all this crap and they just are not that great at it. they make the school seem better then it really is..dont be fooled. you have to jump through a lot of hoops for them.

Exactly, their job placement when you get there is very generic, as in, uh McDonalds hires a lot, only like 8 jobs every couple weeks are actual real openings.








UTI has a 3 week class on carburators (the last carbed vehicle was the 1991 Subaru Justy) and no class on variable valve timing , the instructor I asked about it didn't even fully understand how it works.








I hope you're seeing the pattern here, go back up to the top of the post and notice that the only people that recommend the schools are still in school. The people that have gotten out/work in the field/graduated all agree it's a waste of money. Take it from experience of all the people who have worked with people who went or went themselves, if you go to one of these schools you will wind up paying your way out of debt for the next 10 years wishing you hadn't ever gone in the first place.


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## VTmk3GTi (May 24, 2005)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

AMEN TO THAT!!







i have so much debt its because of that school.







they rush you through everything so you dont get familiar with it..you just "know about it"grrrr


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mechsoldier* »_
I hope you're seeing the pattern here, go back up to the top of the post and notice that the only people that recommend the schools are still in school. The people that have gotten out/work in the field/graduated all agree it's a waste of money. Take it from experience of all the people who have worked with people who went or went themselves, if you go to one of these schools you will wind up paying your way out of debt for the next 10 years wishing you hadn't ever gone in the first place.

So what are you saying? Automotive mechanics should have NO training. It should all be grandfathered? Oh yeah, that's a great idea. NOT! These days you need formal training. I know I wouldn't want some one who was taught by their dad to be working on my car if I didn't know how to work on it myself. And yes, I learned what VVT is, and how it works, and how to work on it. Their is a real tuning class here with a dyno. Last year a kid tested different types of cams and different cams for his supercharged (Ford 350C IIRC) in two days.
You have to remember, these schools are here to create Automotive *Technicians* not hotroders or tuners. They are supposed to be fixing cars, not fixing them up. The things like stand alone tuning or adding a turbo charger to a 97 Town and Country are not taught directly in these schools (at least Penn College. You are given the basics of how a system works, then you can draw from that knowledge and past experiences to build up your car. Thinking that you can come out of one of these schools and build your first turbo Rabbit without learning a little bit more about how the systems work is just silly. 
UTI and WyoTech might have crappy job placements, but my school is different. I know for a fact that someone left this school with a 4 year Baccalaureate degree in Automotive Technology Management (BAU, my degree) and went to a dealership and is making great money (He bought a brand new 5 series last week as a little present to himself). Job placement here is 98%. Now, the Associate degree of Automotive (you don't get the advantage of the business classes. It is broken down into two parts, the first two years are automotive classes, so everyone takes those, then the AU people leave and the BAU take two years of business with automotive or welding extras) those people might be going out into the field and be making anywhere between 30K a year and 50 K a year, depending on where they are employed.


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## VTmk3GTi (May 24, 2005)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zyzzyan* »_Thinking that you can come out of one of these schools and build your first turbo Rabbit without learning a little bit more about how the systems work is just silly. 

...no one said that buckshot. but your going to tell me that cramming all of automotive technology into everyone will be successful in 6 months?? your crazy.i was crazy to think it would work.
they have these things called comps there..you have to pass them to even pass the class...not graded... when you get stuff wrong you have to do it again ..buuuut they dont tell you what you got wrong.. so how do you leanr from that?!?!


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (VTmk3GTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTmk3GTi* »_
they have these things called comps there..you have to pass them to even pass the class...not graded... when you get stuff wrong you have to do it again ..buuuut they dont tell you what you got wrong.. so how do you leanr from that?!?!























Have you gotten your PA inspection lisance?!? Thats how it is. You either pass or fail on the Baseline, the Cat 1, Cat 2, Cat 3 and All the hands on. If you fail, you dont get to see the test or the results.
Is anyone in the feild going to tell you what you did wrong? Usually no.

_Quote, originally posted by *VTmk3GTi* »_...no one said that buckshot. but your going to tell me that cramming all of automotive technology into everyone will be successful in 6 months?? your crazy.i was crazy to think it would work.

Cram? I think the 2 years of basic automotive is pleanty time to learn what you need to learn to start your career.

Look, Im only telling you what I know from Penn College, not Wyo or ATC or any of those. Maybe those aren't that great of school, but I know Penn College is the Number 6 Automotive School in the Country (I think the other 5 are all in California)

_Modified by Zyzzyan at 2:12 PM 10-14-2005_


_Modified by Zyzzyan at 2:13 PM 10-14-2005_


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zyzzyan* »_
So what are you saying? Automotive mechanics should have NO training. It should all be grandfathered? Oh yeah, that's a great idea. NOT! These days you need formal training. 

Dude, when you get a job at a dealership you're going to get an assload of formal training in the form of manufacturers training

_Quote »_
I know for a fact that someone left this school with a 4 year Baccalaureate degree in Automotive Technology Management (BAU, my degree) and went to a dealership and is making great money (He bought a brand new 5 series last week as a little present to himself). 

Ok, say there were two parallel universes Zyzzyan #1 gets a job in 2000 at a dealership, Zyzzyan #1 goes to Penn College. In 2004 Zyzzyan #2 will most likely end up coming into the field making the same amount that #1 now makes, only he's owing 20k dollars on school and hasn't completed manufacturer training yet (which he'll have to.
I know how you feel, it's hard to accept, UTI told me the same stuff (and you'll notice everybody here has said that), when you get out into the field you'll figure it out too. 
And they do rush you through it, nobody can learn about emmissions systems including short and long term fuel trims, how to read 5 gas analyzers and how to tell what's wrong with the car by looking at them, the specific quirks of individual vehicle lines etc in 3 weeks. Only experience can give you that, and that's why these schools are BS. 
A lot of places are weary about hiring people out of these schools because they think they're worth a lot more than they really are. And your school is number 5 in the nation I can pretty much guarantee the other schools you're talking about are probably two Wyotechs and the Rancho and Phoenix UTI.
There's TWO Ase Master Certified techs in this thread telling you that it's a waste of time, one of us went to a tech school for a short time, and the other has been in charge of hiring people and been in the field for 20 years.....you think that's a coincidence?


_Modified by mechsoldier at 12:11 PM 10-15-2005_


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

*sigh*

#1 is going to be stuck at that dead end job for the rest of his life. #2 is going to be able to go to another career if working on cars gets too boring. He is going to be able to wrench on cars, do the service manager thing, sell cars, know how to do his taxes, have all the experiences of college, have other areas of knowledge from his other classes that he had to take, and be better off all around. #1 will be making mistakes in the field and learning, and since PCT has the *LIVE WORK* programs where actual cars come in the school and, under teacher supervision, works on the cars with no time deadline, no pressure at all, so that is where #2 gets his experiences. And if he, say, puts the tie rods on the wrong side, there is someone there who will help him, instead of being yelled at by the boss and losing money. If there is no time for him to get certified for inspections (which I just got my inspection license for PA on Tuesday










































) he wont be able to do those. College will teach #2 time management if he didn't have that in the first place.

Look, my background is that I got into College, then before I went to college, I was working at a shop. once I got to college and learned a lot, I realized all of the wrong things they were doing. I promise you that #2's workmanship will far surpass #1's work.
I mean, would you rather have someone mic-ing rotors, or someone looking at it and saying "Eh.. needs to be cut" I understand flatrate and that not everone uses a headlight tester or a balljoint guage. My uncle works as an atomotive teacher for a HS tech school in SE PA. He has been out in the field and knows how things work. He regreted not going to college, and before he became a teacher, he did go back to school and got his BS degree. He says after I graduate, him and I are going to a bar and over a drink talk about ethics, so I don't have those words for you.


*OH NOT TO MENTION!*
Most employers are looking for formal training. I know someone who got layed off because there were too many techs, and all of the other techs were formally trained, but he wasn't. So he got the boot

And adding: my conversation with my friend John:
*Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:21:11 PM): There are things, that may be basic, that are specific to that car, that say a trained chevy tech wouldn't know
Blaze86Vic (4:21:26 PM): College is a supliment.
Johnnie Ray Lackey(4:22:00 PM): And a requirment if you want to work on the cutting edge of technology, which is every car since 1991.*
Zyzz yan (4:22:06 PM): Thank you
Zyzz yan (4:22:11 PM): Mind if I quote you?
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:23:29 PM): Go ahead
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:23:29 PM): most of what I say comes strait from a Ford Senior Master Tech with over 20 year of real world experience.
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:23:52 PM): So let them know it's not just an opinion, it's fact
Zyzz yan (4:24:13 PM): Ok, Ill just fix the typos and copy and paste the convo
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:24:14 PM): My dad is one of 2 people at that shop that can actually work on everything.
Zyzz yan (4:24:24 PM): and change your SN to your real name
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:24:29 PM): Ok
Zyzz yan (4:24:37 PM): your dad had formal training, no?
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:24:47 PM): You can also let them know how much he makes.
Johnnie Ray Lackey(4:25:04 PM): $26/hour commision
Zyzz yan (4:25:07 PM): nice!
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:25:12 PM): For diagnosis work only
Zyzz yan (4:25:21 PM): Master tech jobs are awsome!
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:25:25 PM): not the manual labor stuff, he rarely has to do those.
Johnnie Ray Lackey(4:25:32 PM): Indeed
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:25:53 PM): It usuallt take about 7 years to finish taking all the Ford courses
Zyzz yan (4:25:53 PM): I know 4 at this college
Zyzz yan (4:26:09 PM): but thats without working normally
Zyzz yan (4:26:14 PM): full time student
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:26:41 PM): Not most, all, Senior Master is everything, meaning there are no other course.
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:26:58 PM): He only take the new courses each year
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:27:14 PM): Which is usually only about 2-3 weeks of.
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:27:17 PM): total
Zyzz yan (4:27:18 PM): Yeah, Ford has an asset program with this college
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:27:22 PM): Cool
Zyzz yan (4:27:24 PM): yeah
Zyzz yan (4:27:27 PM): I wouldnt do it though
Johnnie Ray Lackey (4:27:38 PM): If he moved out of Gloucester he could be making much more
Zyzz yan (4:27:42 PM): Ford gives you an apartment to live in
Zyzz yan (4:28:05 PM): but the college's apartments are better, and Fords are right above the cop station, lol!

Johnnie Ray Lackey

_Modified by Zyzzyan at 4:34 PM 10-15-2005_


_Modified by Zyzzyan at 4:36 PM 10-15-2005_


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

Your friend works for Ford, you know what butcher was doing a couple weeks ago....he was in California learning to work on the McLaren SLR.....
They AREN'T going to hire a friggin tech school graduate over an ASE Master Certified Tech....
I didn't say that training wasn't necessary. I said tech school isn't necessary. You absolutely need training which is why Ford or whoever will send you to training.... If you're good you're good and if you suck, then no amount of tech school is going to teach you how to work on stuff. 

_Quote »_#1 is going to be stuck at that dead end job for the rest of his life.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight I'm ASE Master Certified and I'm going to be stuck at a dead end job the rest of my life.








Hey, most dealerships pay like 50 cents more per hour per certification, how many do you think are gonna pay you extra for you're tech school degree? Probably not many if any. There's already a system in place that shows your mechanical aptitude and it's been in place for the last 30 years. It's tough enough that 1 out of every 3 tests taken is a failure, and the average age for master certification is 41. Your conversation with a Ford Master Techs son means nothing, it doesn't even say he went to a tech school, which he probably didn't.
Believe the hype, but like I said, come back in 5 years when you're in the field when you're making the same as everybody else who started when you went to school, and tell me you're glad you did it. I bet you won't kid...



_Modified by mechsoldier at 2:28 PM 10-18-2005_


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## burtonguy567 (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

im taking in what u guys are all saying and i understand...but there is a course at wyotech in which u get your associates degree which would b a decent start....im not saying im going to go to wyotech but what do u guys think about the associates degree that u can get from them?


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

So where do you suggest to get the training? In the field with real peoples cars under the supervision of some other tech. Yeah sure, that will work. NOT!!
You controdict yourself. You dont even know what you are talking about. You just said

_Quote, originally posted by *mechsoldier* »_ 
They AREN'T going to hire a friggin tech school graduate over an ASE Master Certified Tech....


then said:

_Quote, originally posted by *mechsoldier* »_ the average age for master certification is 41.


Well DUUUUUUUUUUUUH!!! A 41 year old with more experiance will get a job over a 22 year old with less.









Johnny Ray Lacky (6:58:04 PM): Here comes a quote...
Johnny Ray Lacky (7:01:06 PM): No he didn't go to a tech school. But there is no difference from the training and the tech school. So which do you want, spend 10 years collecting all the course, and having to pay the same if not more; or get it all done in 4 years? If you think going to a school to learn is stupid, then why do you take training courses? Or are you refering to how to turn a wrench 101? Real higher level training is book work, not wrench work. And the fact that I am his sone make what I say solid. I have taken with him several of his classes. You use a mouse and pen and paper. So go to school, speed up, if not skip, the ****ty make your reputation stage of your career. And an ASE Master cert is really good for working at Meineke. But if you want to work for a dealership, then company specific training is what gets you money. Yeah most do pay .50 per cert, untill a point. Which is usually less than $20/hour. Don't be a fool, if you can go to a 4 year college or tech school GO!!! And by the time you get out you will instantly be making more than mechsoldier will if he doesn't start to specialize. This is the 21st centurt man, you are defined by a piece of paper, make it a good piece of paper, not one covered in dirty finger prints.



_Modified by Zyzzyan at 7:10 PM 10-18-2005_


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Wyotech..... (burtonguy567)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burtonguy567* »_i know this isn't directly related to Forced induction but it is a little...im looking at going the wyotech(blairesville, PA)...im sure u guys have heard of it and some of u probrably have gone to one of the wyotech schools...i would just like to know how your exsperience was there and if it is good school, also if u have gone there how is there engine and chassis design course(turbos, superchargers, and obviously chassis design)....i don't know if ill get many reply's but i thought it was worth a shot

I have interviewed many graduates from various technical schools including Wyotech. As an employer of technicians, fabricators and welders I will simply offer these observations:
The schools are extremely expensive for what you actually receive in terms of knowledge, experience, and potential job placement. 
Most of the guys that I know that went through the apprenticeship program at a new car dealer ended up with good careers and learned tons in a short period of time because they receive daily real world experience, beyond a classroom setting. 
For those seeking more than a dealership position, the dealer or a good independent shop are (imho) the best launching points for your career. "Doing your time" (as I did years ago) at the dealer can provide good experience, good training and you usually work with guys that know 10x more than you do and if you are really interested and if you want to learn you can learn a lot as long as you are not bogged down by the dealership mentality which can have a somewhat negative impact on an individual who plans to go beyond a dealership tech position. 
Whatever you decide it is up to you to TAKE the most out your experiences. If you are motivated, energetic and enthusiastic and stay that way...you will learn a lot in a short period of time and this experience can lead to a good career. 
Best of luck to you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Rich


_Modified by eiprich at 7:58 PM 10-18-2005_


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

Oh mechsoldier Let me add this:
Penn College is not a Tech school. If you read that link I posted, you would know that. I have Math courses, Phycology courses, Business course, English courses, and Science courses. It is an actual college associated with Penn State University. I can transfer straight to PSU if I wanted with no hassle, and I even get the PSU seal on my diploma. 
I understand you are basing your veiw of school on schools like Wyo and ATC. Like I said, Penn college is different.


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## burtonguy567 (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

when u say penn college do u mean, Penn Tech? i was very interested in that school if that's the school your talking about, i just didn't like the fact that u only work on ford's or toyota's...


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (burtonguy567)*

WOAH!!! LOL!!!
Yes, we have associations with Ford Toyota and now Honda, and yes they donate their excess cars, but that in no way means that all you work on are those cars.
Hell, today I was working on my Dub. Yesterday, another dub, passat. Last Thursday I believe I was working on a 98 Town and Country.
There are many different kinds of cars we work on. Come for a tour on september 30th.
CLICK HERE FOR INFORMATION ON THE TOUR
Because people dont like links


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## burtonguy567 (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

what exactly did u do to ur car or have u done to ur car while u were there?


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (burtonguy567)*

What have I done? Well, no mods because I am poor







, but today I got bored and worked 6 hours on everything under the wheel well. Taking my time and doing everything to exact specs that Shop key provides.
You can read about two of my adventurous hours in this thread here.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2247051

Yes I was that bored


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zyzzyan* »_ No he didn't go to a tech school. But there is no difference from the training and the tech school. So which do you want, spend 10 years collecting all the course, and having to pay the same if not more; or get it all done in 4 years?

What dealership is he working at that is charging him for factory training? The dealer normally pays for that....and that's the difference.


_Quote »_I understand you are basing your veiw of school on schools like Wyo and ATC. Like I said, Penn college is different. 
 No I'm basing my view of school on the fact that like EIP said it's too much money for the amount of knowledge gained. It's not worth it. You haven't actually even found anyone who works in the field that said they wish they would have gone to college and paide 20k dollars, just some guys son who's dad didn't even go there. Yet there's like 6 people in this thread telling you it's a waste of time, people that have gone to the schools, people in dealerships, people in the aftermarket business. And they are all basically saying the same thing, it's not the fact that you don't learn anything there, it's that you don't learn enough to justify spending as much money as these schools charge....You think that this BA is your golden ticket.....you'll see.


_Modified by mechsoldier at 8:39 PM 10-18-2005_


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## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

I went to WyoTech in Laramie (bleh) three years ago, I did their associates program as well, for a total of nine months. The associates program was definetly the biggest waste of time and money, I surfed the internet a LOT. But I did end up with a piece of paper that says I have a degree, which is kind of nice. As for the automotive portion of it, I liked it, I learned a lot of things that I didn't know (I had never really worked on cars before except my own), and it also gave me the confidence to go for a job that I wanted. I skipped out on the factory training programs, because I figured if I got an entry level job, I could learn just as much, and be making money at the same time. So, three years later, I'm only a couple of VW classes away, and ASE tests, from becoming a VW master tech, I figure a year or two more, and I'll be there! Plus I made 40k last year, which I don't think is too bad for 3 years of working. Anyway, I think tech schools are good for getting your foot in the door, realize that you'll probably be at the bottom of the barrel where ever you start, but you'll have an edge on any guy who just walked in from the street, is has been working at Jiffy Lube.


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## 4cefed (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: (Hugh Gordon)*

school is for fools. You cant learn to turn wrenches at school. plain and simple. you cant be taught to be a tech either, you are either born with it, or you arent. I know from first hand experience, im not just talking out my ass. I had a 4.0 UTI grad work for me a few months ago, graduated top of his class, he may have knew more stuff on paper than i did, but before he worked for me, he was a "lube tech" at the local GM dealer. I have known him since highschool and he was born with it, but the lack of real world experience really showed when he came and worked for me. Ive only been doing this for 3 years at the most, and its in my blood, i started at the bottom of the bottom, sweeping floors and busting tires, now i run a very successful shop practically on my own. My father answers the phone/writes service, and im the only guy in the shop. And I do EVERYTHING from full engine and transmission rebuilds, to custom fabrication and in house built turbo kits and exhaust. And its all self taught + EXPERIENCE (<-- KEY)
And im only 19 years young.
Moral of the drunken story is, dont waste your money. Buy a car and work on it yourself, or get your foot in the door somewhere. thats how i learned, and like i said, you are either born with it, or you arent, and trust me, you'll know


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (4cefed)*

Can I add my 2 pennies here? I agree it is "in the blood",you either have it or you don't.......I took a couple highschool and CC courses and started my own "mobile auto repair" business when I was 23 years old......I had a Dodge van with a compressor,and I would plug it in at the customers house,and TRUST ME,when you are "at someones house" FAR AWAY from the parts store you LEARN REAL FAST to have;
1.THE RIGHT PARTS TO COMPLETE THE JOB
2.RESOURCEFULLNESS,you sometimes have to "make" things work......to get the job done and get PAID.
3.Yu learn how to deal with customers on a face to face basis.......
4.You learn how to ACCURATELY diagnose faults and not WASTE TIME.....
5.When you work for yourself,YOUR REPUTATION is on the line.......
6.Sometimes there are jobs that you just "CAN'T DO" and learn to not have ego and move on,TO A JOB YOU CAN DO AND get paid at the end of the day.(ie old pre-obd cars that have to be manually trouble-shot)and a lot of these old cars,people will not PAY YOU for YOUR TIME to properly fix the problem......so "move on" and find customers that will.
7.Have good KARMA,what comes around really goes around,don't screw people,you cannot lie to yourself,and when you are lying in bed,you know who YOU REALLY are.Have integrity,and always try YOUR BEST,that is all you can do.
8.Do not charge TO LITTLE or TOO MUCH,if you charge to little people will not respect you,and think you are desperate for work,if you charge too much,you are screwing yourself when the customer will never come back.
I wrote this because I have been wrenching since I was a kid,and now I am 35,I have had a shop for 4 years now,it is small,I am the only employee,but I do great work,I ONLY work on VW/Audi and
when you concentrate on 1 make,you can MASTER IT,instead of being "OK" at many makes........I hacve been wrenching on VW's since the CIS days and I am STILL learning new stuff EVERY DAY!
I did it the hard way,but if I were one of you young bucks,I would work at a dealer,SPECIALISE in one make,and open your own business later.......
No,I am not a rich man,but I MAKE MY OWN RULES,I get to surf if I want to whenever I want to,BUT I keep responsible for my customers since THEY are your boss,even if you work for yourself.
Working for yourself has a LOT of responsibilty,since YOU are the only one working on the cars.......but you CAN make good money IF you are GOOD at what you do.READ A LOT,STUDY all the manufacturers tech information,learn about OBD,and troubleshooting fuel injection systems,as well as learning basic functions of a engine,ie cam/crank relationship when changing timing belts,etc......I am surprised how many "mechanics" know so LITTLE about the basics!
For example,today I installed a set of coil overs,and did a clutch/flywheel install on a 05' GLI,sold a turbo
and made;
1. $450.00 labor on the clutch job(customer supplied the clutch/flywheel)
2.$350.00 on labor and retail markup on a set of coil overs.
3.$100.00 profit on a turbo
So basically,on mundane,easy to do jobs,I pocketed $900.00 on easy to do work,and a little profit on the side for parts.Not bad for a uneducated mechanic I would say...........
And this is not a "special day" by any means,I have had plenty of $1000.00+ days ,typically when I do AC repair and Exhaust system fabbing makes GREAT MONEY.
A typical AC compressor/drier replacement and flushing the system takes about 3 hours max,and I make $600.00 PROFIT and still charge $600.00-$800.00 LESS than the dealer and competing shops,I use BRAND NEW OEM compressors,change all o-rings and flush the system well........that is $200.00/hour!!
Exhaust system fabrication makes BIG MONEY!!
I am doing a exhaust system/downpipe for a 1.8T this week,basically I buy a $30.00 flex section,a $150.00 Borla muffler,some $20.00 u-bends and for about $200.00 in materials,I charge $850.00 for a custom downpipe/mandrel bent exhaust and profit $600.00.
So what I am TRYING TO SAY is;
Mechanics can make good money,have pride in your job,do your best to "make it" for yourself,learn as many skills as you can,and READ.
You DON'T have to be stuck in a dead end job,make your dreams come true,if you NEVER TRY how will you know??
To be realistic,sure,wrenching is HARD,and it would be nice to be a pro golfer,or a gangsta' rapper,or a lawyer.........but in realty I am a mechanic,a damn good one,because I TRY MY BEST and MAKE things happen in my life.........I hope this gives you young guys some hope,because I never thought in my wildest dreams I would be this successful,but I MADE IT HAPPEN......








BTW I am 1 ASE cert from being a "master tech",I never took the auto trans test because I do not repair auto trannies........










_Modified by VWAUDITECH at 12:58 AM 10-19-2005_


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

Right, I'm a moron because I am paying money to learn.
Lets have every profession be like that. You dont have to go to law school anymore to be a lawyer. The Bar, pfft, who needs that. Chemistry, nah, just start "experimenting", you'll get it evenutally. The business world, nah, screw business ethics. Dentistry, just start poking around (hey, thats what they do anyway)








I am done with this conversation. You guys are old farts who are stuck in your way, and unfortunatly this is the mentality that is present in our current trade. Well no wonder people who are ignorant about automobiles think "mechanics" are scum.
I am going to continue to set BurtonGuy on the right course through PMs. Go back to your beers. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by Zyzzyan at 7:55 AM 10-19-2005_


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## 4cefed (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zyzzyan* »_Right, I'm a moron because I am paying money to learn.
Lets have every profession be like that. You dont have to go to law school anymore to be a lawyer. The Bar, pfft, who needs that. Chemistry, nah, just start "experimenting", you'll get it evenutally. The business world, nah, screw business ethics. Dentistry, just start poking around (hey, thats what they do anyway)








I am done with this conversation. You guys are old farts who are stuck in your way, and unfortunatly this is the mentality that is present in our current trade. Well no wonder people who are ignorant about automobiles think "mechanics" are scum.

_Modified by Zyzzyan at 7:55 AM 10-19-2005_

Why cant you just swallow it. Its true, we all have the same thing to say because WE ARE RIGHT. Im no old fart by any means, im 19, but its all true, we are here and we are doing it, and we've all seen first hand these kids that come out of 25k tech schools. 90% of them go into school and come right back out being just as good as of a mechanic as before they went in. you can go to amazon.com and buy the same literature they are showing you at UTI and Wyotech, and learn all the crap they do down there by reading books, trust me, IVE DONE IT. I combined that with first hand experience and its truly paying off.
Wanna hear a true story? good. A friend of mine JUST dropped out of UTI. I asked him "why did you drop out of UTI sam? " 
HIM: "Because they were teaching me crap i already knew, and i was half way through my year and i hadnt learned anything new yet"
ME: Didnt i tell you that before you went there?
HIM: LOL YEAH
so now hes coming back to our home town to look for a job in the industry. He was working part time at a shop down there to pay the bills, and he said he learned TONS working, and none at UTI.


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (4cefed)*

*sigh*
I said I wasnt gonna post here again, but...

Impatient idoits. There are many different levels of skill that people have that go into these school, so they give everyone the basics. 
Like I said, WyoTech and UTI might now have LIVE WORK, but Penn College does.
Right now I am in the live work class, I will take pictures tomorrow and show you what we are doing.
I will have my freakin teacher post here and explain what is happening.
Do I need to record a little clip of my class working on live work cars? Will that show you that my school does more than just read out of a book? Is that what I have to do?


_Modified by Zyzzyan at 11:08 AM 10-19-2005_


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zyzzyan* »_*sigh*
Impatient idoits. 


Dude most of us have forgotten more about mechanics than you'll probably ever know...And for the record about your ASE comment, I'm 21, not 41, I'm one of the youngest master certified techs in the country. Your diploma doesn't mean anything, you may think it does, but 90% of the people who are in charge of hiring people know it doesn't mean anything as written in this thread over and over and over again. 

Bottom line, you're a 19 year old kid who has NO real world work experience, you haven't even ever been in the field, so why you think you know so much about the industry is beyond me. You're school is ranked below Wyotech and UTI, so why do you think you;re going to be held in a higher regard than the students from those schools?
As far as being a teacher, the teachers at these schools make much less than they could being mechanics if they were that good.....so ask yourself why is this guy teaching at my school and making like 35k a year if he could be making twice that?


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

Well, what you said just proves you did not read what I have posted and said in your head "LALALALALA IM NOT LISTENING, LALALALALA"

Look, for the last freakin time, UTI and Wyo ARE NOT the same as Penn College. Come up and take a freaking tour for yourself!



_Modified by Zyzzyan at 11:57 AM 10-19-2005_


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## mkIIcountry (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

Let me jump in here. I am a Penn College Graduate. I was only there for two years, not four, but that doesn't matter. A college degree doesn't tell a future employer what your grades were, how many times you missed class, or how reliable you are. The only thing that college degree tells that employer is that you are teachable, dedicated (or at least enough to get a degree), and where. I know for a fact FORD (whether you like Ford or not) looks for students from Penn College before anywhere else. Why you may ask? Because Penn College is ranked #6 in the country for automotive coarses. The top five are not in this section of the country. Penn College is local to the eastern part of the country.
Enough about Penn College. You mentioned learning a lot different things to become a good auto tech. A auto tech can have every tool known to the auto world and if he doesn't know how to solve problems, he doesn't know how to fix a car. That's all it is, problem solving. And that's all college teaches you, to solve problems. Doesn't matter what college. So teach you problem solving skills better than others, like Penn College.
Well boys, I need to get back to work. If you have any question, problems, concerns, moans, groans, gripes, or complaints I will be happy to help you out.


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## mkIIcountry (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

I love when people make comment about things they know nothing about. I don't know what profs at Wyotec or UTI make, buy the ones at Penn College make between $60k-$80k. How do I know this? I was offered a position there. But you are right. I make more than that being a mechanic.


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## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: (mkIIcountry)*

Passing all of your ASE tests doesn't necessarily mean anything either, it could just mean you're good at studying, and taking tests...........


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (Hugh Gordon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hugh Gordon* »_Passing all of your ASE tests doesn't necessarily mean anything either, it could just mean you're good at studying, and taking tests...........

I beg to differ. I have heard that comment and that may just show your age. That worked in the past but now with the complexities of being an auto mechanic you must know how to read, research, and understand what you are doing and with those skills it is only natural that you are good at studying and taking test. It's just a byproduct. If you cannot take tests and study you will not be a good technician in these days of changing technology. 
Yes, there are exceptions but not many in this case.
I will agree that if you are a master ASE tech that does not mean you are good but since I have hired several individuals with all things being equal I would pick someone with credentials. I think you would agree if you were to see a doctor or a lawyer.


_Modified by Butcher at 3:30 PM 10-21-2005_


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## 4cefed (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: (Hugh Gordon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hugh Gordon* »_Passing all of your ASE tests doesn't necessarily mean anything either, it could just mean you're good at studying, and taking tests...........

precisely. all you have to do is study the book and take the tests to be "certified". im so buried in work because i have the repuation, to be able to make it to my local college to pass the "tests"


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## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: (4cefed)*

I agree that having the credentials definetly looks good, but just because you have them doesn't necessarily make you a good technician. There are also many good technicians out there who don't have ASE's. I work at a VW dealership, and there is absolutely no pay increase for me if I get my ASE's, so I'm not taking them until I am ready to move on to a different job, where I will be rewarded for having them.
Also, on another note, a Ford Master Tech who has been in the business for 15 years, and has all of his ASE's recently started working next to me. He has messed up more VW's than I have ever seen one person mess up in my 3 years of working there. So being an ASE master tech really doesn't mean you know everything...


_Modified by Hugh Gordon at 2:06 PM 10-20-2005_


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Hugh Gordon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hugh Gordon* »_I agree that having the credentials definetly looks good, but just because you have them doesn't necessarily make you a good technician. There are also many good technicians out there who don't have ASE's. 
 I agree with you, it doesn't necessarily make you a good technician, but like Butcher said, it's not as generic as you may think. It's not all bookwork, sometimes there'll just be a picture of something and it'll ask what is this or what are they measuring, and it's super generic. 
Like I said I agree with you about the credentials not being an end all be all. .But, you're underestimating the test a little bit. There's a reason why 33% of tests taken are failures and they're by people who have been in the field for years. I've taken 10 tests, failed 1, I studied for 5 of them I think. In the end I found out I overstudied a 
bit.

_Quote, originally posted by *mkIIcountry* »_I love when people make comment about things they know nothing about. 

I threw out a number, UTI teachers make something around that I think, my buddy was offered a job there....Anyways like you said you can still make more working than teaching.
Also UTI has schools in PA and also Mass. in the northeast....there's about 8 or 9 now, 2 in CA, on in Phoenix, 1 in Florida, Mass, PA, and then I think there's like Tennesee or North Carolina or something, wherever their Nascar program is. Wyotech has one in PA iirc also....

Who am I to say what you should do anyways, I obviously haven't made all the right choices. I'm in Iraq making less than 30k a year as a soldier when I'm worth much much more than that.....










_Modified by mechsoldier at 9:29 AM 10-20-2005_


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## racerx138 (Jun 11, 1999)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

Ive been looking at goin to UTI, and got "accepted", so i decieded to see what the Tex had to say about it. This was the only thread i found on the topic and i resurrected it just to say I'm not gonna go.
I have to go with the people that are in the field, and those that have been. Just listening to the admissions guy it sounds like a bunch of snake oil to me. Guess ill just finish my physics degree and go and do whatever i want.
Thx guys.


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (racerx138)*

Jesus! stick with the physics man! Much more money involved


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

this ****in business sUCKS [email protected]!!! NO ONE TRY TO GET IN THIS BUSINESS WORLD!!!! i went to LTI and it was ****in hell.. i didnt learn **** waiste of 25K i learned everything workin in shops before i even sighned up for the school. the only thing they do is suck u in and bull**** yur way... now... i hAD to do it because i WAS MADe to.. u go there and most of the people dont even DRIVE. or have thier permits yET, most of them cant read... most of them were in prison... some of them are drug dealers.. it was a total BULL**** PLACE!!! when i was done.. dealerships around me SUCK thier sooo ****in small.. subaru has 5 bay shop... 5 ****in bays u kno how much that suCKS?! i worked in a infiniti dealership it was horrible they first made me work on the floor in wET **** where theyy washed the cars.. i cleaned up peopls **** in thier bays..****in painted walls, i came home and did my own side jobs made more money on installing coilovers or BOV on 1.8T' doing chip installs bymyself in one job, makin over a weeks pay . **** this business it sucks.. if u dont kno people then yur ****ed.. the only way u get a good job in this world is if u kno people and ur lucky if you do. i quit that ****... and also he was gonna let me go because he had no work.. he gave me a POS lift , i had to bolt the bolts in because there were a couple times where the car had been slidding off because the bays arms had been folding in.. im telling u .. just go work in like some company building **** this business. get a company car, dont have to carry tools with u every day. u kno like office space haha anyways.. finding work SUCKS.. they all ask duhhh yea we need 10 yrs experience WELL ******* HOW THE **** AM I GONNA GET EXPERIENCE IF NO ONE HIRESS!!! dumb ****in guy who hires at VW & audi palisades is a dooshebag he didnt even kno what a Mark 3 was, when i said yea i have a Mk3 VRT hes like wuts mark three mean? some ******* 24 yr old jack ass hiring techs.. he doesnt kno **** about the cars.. **** THIS! i feel bad for all those techs.. thier all like divorced and **** always comming into work pissed off makin a couple 30-50K a year. ****ty benefits.. stupid **** ... all they do is bitch and get pissed off sometimes they just leave during work. anyways this is not a life someone wants to live.. most people take thier hobbie think its gonna be thier life well its not once ur in it your stuck. so someimtes its not to late to quit and go to something better .


_Modified by GermanSquadVR6 at 10:20 PM 11-5-2005_


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## ArcticFox (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*

My Brother goes to lincholn tech. He's saying right now its stupid and there just rushing around.


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## racerx138 (Jun 11, 1999)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zyzzyan* »_Jesus! stick with the physics man! Much more money involved

Its less than you think unless you work for it. And i would rather work with cars, and do what i love. But for the price, i will finish it off.


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (ArcticFox)*

well there u have .... its a waiste of time seriously man


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GermanSquadVR6* »_well there u have .... its a waiste of time seriously man

Except in the schools, like Pennsylvania College of Technology, where they have LIVE WORK.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I finally got around to actually looking at those other schools. Jesus, you guys werent kidding, they are bad.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

LIVE work? lol wtf thw work SUCKS the trannys they got are from MUSTANGS!!!! and their all busted up they have like 2 bolts... all u do is take off the clutch fork adnd put the ****in pin back in... take all the ring gears off anfd **** put them back on whatver is still not missing . brakes class is in a ****in class room on these little fake stand things hahaha its sooo stupid... all i did was go out for a cigg and drank cofee **** that ****... 25K a WAISTE


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## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: (racerx138)*



racerx138 said:


> Ive been looking at goin to UTI, and got "accepted", so i decieded to see what the Tex had to say about it. This was the only thread i found on the topic and i resurrected it just to say I'm not gonna go.
> Soory to bust your bubble but its not like an actuall university. You got "accepted Because your money is green it has nothing to do with you or what they think of you.
> If you know abosolutely nothing about cars and are complety "green" then by all means knock yourself out and attend one of these schools. I learned the hard way on how to work on stuff by messing up my own when I was younger, had my nose in any and every ook, magazine, shop door, video I could find about the automotive industry. then when I hit 16 I went to work in various shops and dealerships putting in my time and while I was there I grilled every Master tech, B tech, C tech, service manager around to try to gain more and more information. Once they see your willing to do this and make the first steps while still taking care of your responsibilities,(i.e cleaning) then they'll spend the time on you to make you better. I'm not saying to not got to an automotive school, I'm just saying that wether you go or not , the serious of steps/events I mentioned prior are still going to have to be made and DUES are going to have to be paid. Why put yourself behind the curve? I did attend Wyotech in Blairs-hole PA and somewhat regret I did. But I'm not going to lie, that diploma does help make a good conversation piece in interveiws


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GermanSquadVR6* »_LIVE work? lol wtf thw work SUCKS the trannys they got are from MUSTANGS!!!! and their all busted up they have like 2 bolts... all u do is take off the clutch fork adnd put the ****in pin back in... take all the ring gears off anfd **** put them back on whatver is still not missing . brakes class is in a ****in class room on these little fake stand things hahaha its sooo stupid... all i did was go out for a cigg and drank cofee **** that ****... 25K a WAISTE

yeah, thats wrong. You need to go to grammer school (or anger management)
I have stated a few times in this thread that Penn College is different. I even had an alumni tell you so.
We get ACTUAL cars that are on the road and owned by people not affilated witht he college. We have time deadlines, and it is real world senerios. We replace valves (a 1.8 T passat just came in with a busted timing belt, we are going to replace valves, valve guides, and everything else involved with that job)
I want to take pictures of our tranny lab, because that seems that everyone is getting hung up on those trannies. Infact, I will ASAP


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

**** that dude... so did wee ******* ... the teachers wives car needed to run it was my project .. the guy had no start//// the car was just braught back from the dealership... he said i need 2 guys to do it.. well the other guy backed out cause he didnt kno ****.. i finally figured out it didnt start because there was no fuel being feeded , and then i had to take off the ****in intake manifold and everything else u can think off to get to those bastard injectors! there they were! new injectors and also new rubber bushings, because the other ones were leaking.. dooshbag dealer tech ****ed up when they rebuilt the motor.. and there u have it.. buddy real life situation so why dont u go to ur stupid little "university and shove it up ur ass"


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*

I do not know you and, if given the opertunity, would not choose to meet you. You seem to have some anger problems. You just complained that a teacher used you to fix his wives car. And obviously listening isn't one of your strengths (neither is spelling) you are pointless to argue with.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GermanSquadVR6* »_**** that dude... so did wee ******* ... the teachers wives car needed to run it was my project .. the guy had no start//// the car was just braught back from the dealership... he said i need 2 guys to do it.. well the other guy backed out cause he didnt kno ****.. i finally figured out it didnt start because there was no fuel being feeded , and then i had to take off the ****in intake manifold and everything else u can think off to get to those bastard injectors! there they were! new injectors and also new rubber bushings, because the other ones were leaking.. dooshbag dealer tech ****ed up when they rebuilt the motor.. and there u have it.. buddy real life situation so why dont u go to ur stupid little "university and shove it up ur ass" 

Spelling and grammar does not make you a good mechanic but like I said before in other threads [or maybe it was this one] if you cannot read or spell then the ability to be a good technician is bleak. I am not here to bust your chops but in order for you to get your point accross and for people to respect you on the internet you must be able to spell. Maybe your too lazy to use spell check. I can understand about typo's but man I had a difficult time understanding what you are saying.
I have been a auto tech for 25 years. I have worked on many vehicles but mostly Benz,Maybach, and an occasional McLaren SLR. Work is hard. You can make money but if you are looking for respect then you will not find it in the automotive field. The factory does not want to spend any money for you to fix their problems. JD Powers watches the dollars spent on warranty and if they do not allow diag. time to be billed then you are just a slave. Cheaper warranty costs must be a better car, Right? Customers end up paying since they usually get raked over the coals on the flatrate system. Someone has to pay since I have a house and someone is going to make those payments.


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

Oh, may I add: There is a TWO YEAR waiting list to get into the automotive school at my college.


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (Butcher)*

**** u.. how much do u make a year? 35K? to 50K the mosT exaclty that sucks ass.! expecially if u live around bergen county good luck people.. people dont appreciate the hard work u do .. u bring the car out to them .. not even a simple thank you. **** that . this business is only good till ur working on yur own or with people u have known for years,. for instance lets just say ur brother.. grew up together vw's and audis all yur life beat the **** out of them worked on them tor them appart kno it inside out. thats good stuff open a shop up and hey ur on yur way man. but like i said u think i ****in give two flying ****s if i spell right on some internet forum. i come on here to see wut people are sellin if they got deals then i purchase or sell or trade im not here to argue .. and also.. im wasnt complaining about the teachers car, i was tellin that person "it was also REAL life situation the woman needed her car fixed by friday and i found the problelm.. wtf is soo hard to understand about that u doosh


_Modified by GermanSquadVR6 at 1:40 PM 11-7-2005_


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

uhmmm ok? who gives a ****


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*

Well, if that is the case... Get out of the FI forums then.


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GermanSquadVR6* »_**** u.. how much do u make a year? 

_Modified by GermanSquadVR6 at 1:40 PM 11-7-2005_

Dude you are too funny!

And to ZZZzzzyan or w/e, being a mechanic is a trade. It is different from typical white collar jobs. No one is saying that your four year waste of time err "degree" is going to hurt you. It just isn't worth A: The initial 30k or whatever you are spending, and B:The four years of lost wages and lost REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE where if you phuck up you phuck up, and no instructor wearing a tie holding a clipboard helps you out.








I worked in a body shop for three months. While I determined it wasn't my bag, I learned a LOT. I screwed up many times, and I did stuff I didn't think I could do earlier in the day.
Moral of my story: Real world experience is a better use of your four years. Use all that money you saved as a down payment on a house http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (blueG60rado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueG60rado* »_

Dude you are too funny!

And to ZZZzzzyan or w/e, being a mechanic is a trade. It is different from typical white collar jobs. No one is saying that your four year waste of time err "degree" is going to hurt you. It just isn't worth A: The initial 30k or whatever you are spending, and B:The four years of lost wages and lost REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE where if you phuck up you phuck up, and no instructor wearing a tie holding a clipboard helps you out.








I worked in a body shop for three months. While I determined it wasn't my bag, I learned a LOT. I screwed up many times, and I did stuff I didn't think I could do earlier in the day.
Moral of my story: Real world experience is a better use of your four years. Use all that money you saved as a down payment on a house http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


This thread is getting crazy. I have worked at a small independent shop for about a year before starting here at my local community college for automotive technology. Working there is great. Me, 3 other guys, 2 lifts, thats it. We do front end work, suspension, brakes, exhausts, tires, cv joints, etc. I have learned more there in one year then I will at college in 2 years. In mechanics its is all about the real world experience, that is why the programs have internships for dealerships and other places, so you can get in the field and work. Being at the shop I'm in, I have learned to deal w/ customers one on one, how to work on all makes of cars, and how the business side of it works too. I get paid better than any other 19 year old with no after high school education in this field does, and I can honestly say I love my job. I did the dealership thing for 3 months, and left. There is no money to be made a at a dealership (at least around here) unless you have 10-15+ years in and you can suck the service managers ****. At a dealership, you are a number to them, and no matter how hard you work you will never get what you deserve. So why am I getting an associates degree you ask? Piece of mind. That is the only reason, should something ever happen I have something to fall back on. Do I need it? No. Is it good to have? Yes. Bottom Line: Find someone good to teach you the ropes, and get respected in the field and you will make money. You gotta put effort in yourself too, no one said it comes overnight, and niether does the money.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GermanSquadVR6* »_**** u.. how much do u make a year? 35K? to 50K the mosT exaclty that sucks ass.!_Modified by GermanSquadVR6 at 1:40 PM 11-7-2005_

Not to brag but I am the highest grossing technician in the state of WA for the last several years [check the records in NADA]. I made well over 6 figures since 1994 and the highest was well over $200k. 
I stand by what I said about spelling and reading. Any good person can swap parts but you must know how to look up information and study if you want to be the best technician. Sure there are exceptions but I do not think you are one of them.


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (Butcher)*

How much do I make a year? On top of being a full time student (17 credits this semster, 21 next), I make about 10 grand by being an on campus RA. Now grant it, 8 of that goes to housing and school food (which isn't that bad) but that is still pretty damn deceint.
And it is only only 7K a semster. Time 4 = 28,000. At 7.84% intrest (college loan rates suck)
6 months grace to get started. So lets say I go out and start making 18 dollars flat rate. It starts a little slow so Im pulling 36 hours flat rate that year. Thats 648 a week. Times, lets say, 45 weeks a year I work: $29160 a year. So... about 23K a year after taxes?
Anyway, lets say I save one weeks pay a month for the loan. Thats about 48 + 6 months for me to pay off that loan. 4.5 years... Ill be 26 and 6 months by the time I am done with my loan, and better be making better than 18 an hour and pulling in more than 40 hours a week.


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

I haven't gone to a tech school ... but I have lived a while ... 29 yrs ... 
one thing that I've learned is that in any senario how much you learn as so much more to do with how hard you work. Whether it be in the confines of a classroom, or in the rain, in the backyard of your parents yard... people with a true drive to achieve will achieve. There are those who need to structure of school, there are those who have the self discipline to teach themselves. Mechanic work is much like computer work. If you have had the fortune of having the opportunity to play with the stuff and learned about it, it really doesn't matter what degrees or certifications you have, you'll get paid. True professionals recognize it when they see quality work. 
Fact of the matter is, Zyzzyan you have no clue. I understand everything your saying about Penn tech not being like the other schools and it may be different, it might be cheaper, and I'm sure that the LIVE WORK program is a huge asset... but if I've ever heard a load of horsecrap that sounded like it was being read out of a brocure, I'd swear you must have written the damn thing for Penn Tech. I was in the military, I'm in sales, and I've been in 100% biased presentations. Military recruiters have a fantastic way of making boot camp sound like a vacation, I'll convince at least 2 people everyday that AMD is better than Intel, and that conference that HP held a week ago sure made me think that they were the only computer company worth dealing with. 
All these people are paid to provide a conviencing presentation. HP has spent billions of dollars on how to present their information so that the competition seems completely flasid in comparison. The military folk quite simply lied ... and AMD vs INTEL... well apart from my own convictions it's an absolute opinion and the truth is extremely hard to find. 
What I'm saying is ... you, who are in the educational institution that must both convience itself as well as continue to convience all those who interact with it to maintain operation and budget, are arguing with people who have dirtied their fingers, hands, arms, faces, and have been hip deep (from the wrong direction) in automotive s**t and have had the plain and raw experiance to truely know what it means to be a mechanic. AudiTech implied it best ... you do what you need to do, you do it to the best of your ability, and you maintain the highest level of integrity... and by God, at the end of the day people will respect you, they'll pay higher prices because they know you're a stand up man, and they'll refer all their friends, family, and aquaintences to go to you. 
Zyzzyan, you've read the comments made here, so I don't need to repeat them... but try for one moment to consider things from another perspective and listen to what these guys are saying... be open minded just like you are when you friend or professors talk... you learn how to honestly listen, then you'll find that you've learned the most important skill of all. No college, class, or seminar can teach you that... it's something you decide to try. 
However, I'm getting ready to start college again, cause I didn't finish... unless I'm told completely other wise in a vocational evlaluation I have tomorrow, my intentions are to go to the University of Louisville Speed schoo and get my Mechanical Engineering Masters... why? Because I have a thirst to learn why and how things work. I have had and have a horrible propensity to read and study everything I can about forced induction... yet am simply to poor to do anything about or with the information I've gathered. Many would say just get some crap from a junkyard and start working on it, you'll learn what you need to know... but I'm not satisfied with that, because I believe that with understanding can come creative application, which when put to the right places can revolutionize and industry... 
I'm not suggesting you quit your school and go get employed by some shop... I'm saying get all you can from the training your recieving... but be aware that there is so much more than you're aware of ... and if so many people with so much experiance are all saying the same thing... the most common message that you hear can't be to far off from the truth... especially in a NATIONAL forum such as this.
there's my peace ... good night


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (ExtremeVR6)*

Finally, someone with a brain responds.
And I told you, I see it from their point of view. Those other schools are not that great, and I can see how they have a negitive outlook to any sort of formal training from a school environment.
Hey, I love this school, and, just like this country, I will defend it to the best of my ability (Ok, so I wont kill for the school







) *shrug* 
I would right more, but I am tired.


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (ExtremeVR6)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i also want to the leave the tech field and go get some real knowledge, im sick of people looking at you like your just some little **** bag in the shop who had dirty oily hands and sweat all over him. but really yur a certified Master Tech, or i shud say OBDII NISSAN/Infiniti senior TECH* who works his ass off , keeps his mouth shut while the rest of the other techs bitch and moan, Serv. manager is on yur ass all day bitching to do this and that. meanwhile he doesnt kno jack **** about cars, and how they really work these days.. its not just turning wrenches anymore. the truth is being able to diagnose everything and use the old fashioned ways of figuring out wat other things can be causing that problem. like simple things the I key, for START KEY ignition button.. the I key can be held anywhere inside the car, pockett, bag, or even center console cup holder, but when the car is braught in for a simple PDI u gotta register the KEY for that car, its soo dumb doing that while u have 3 ****in waiters all for yourself, one has a 45K the other has 1st comp svc., its just crazzy and seriously i was goin nuts but i never said one word.. the guys who have been therer 15 -20 yrs bitch and yell and curse and the SVC manager doesnt say **** to them ,, he sees me have a cigg when there was no woirk at the end of the day he flipped the **** out.. when everyone else had left already.. seriously wuts the deal?? most of the techs who have 10-15 yr exp. cant even use the diagnostic scanners, if u watch them type it takes them a yEAR to log in and out of thier job. WTF?! explain why this business sucks??


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*

The funny part of all of this....

I am leaving this feild. Hopefully next year I'll be at Penn State for Chemical Engineering.


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## vw16vcabby (Sep 19, 2001)

i live near blairsville wyotech.
for every one person i see come out of there who knows something, i see 9 who dont have a clue and cant even work on their own car.
it is all what you make of it. either you want to learn, or you dont. no one is gonna put the desire in you to mess w/ cars.


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

ok so what the hell are we all arguing about.. haha


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (vw16vcabby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw16vcabby* »_
it is all what you make of it. either you want to learn, or you don't. no one is gonna put the desire in you to mess w/ cars.

I agree. If you are willing to put up with all the crap, willing to work for free, willing to stand your ground once in a while, and have the desire to figure things out, then you might be a good tech, if you do not mind getting dirty once in a while. The problem with that is, the amount of abuse you get is not worth it. Some customers treat you like crap and some managers do the same. There are better industries that will treat you with more respect with a lot less hassles and staying clean. I am fortunate to work with the best boss in the world and a company that wants to make a good car [well....they used to] so I get treated with a lot of respect. I am not the norm so that is why I recommend staying clear of automotive industry. Play with your own car so some frustrated mechanic does not practice butching on your car.


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GermanSquadVR6* »_ok so what the hell are we all arguing about.. haha 

Youre mama!

Peace guys? Lets leave it at there are a lot of automotive schools out there, out of every1000, 1 is good and actually teaches you something and you get *good* hands on experiance.
Just have to do your research and take tours and know what you are getting into.


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (Zyzzyan)*

This thread was amusing.
had some thoughts when I first started reading.. then a few posts made my eyes bleed and I lost them.
Anway.. I was offered off the street a job at a dealer when I was 19.. didn't care that I had no actual experience other then working on friends cars and my own.. just heard I had a clue and gave me a chance. AT the time I was at Rutgers engineering.. wanted to work on cars but was gonna go the ME route and work from there.. Well I wasn't that happy in school had this summer/ part time job and bailed.. I started in august.. For X amount.. By middle of september I was making 50% more then what I started and by Feb I was on flat rate out of 10 people pulling in the top 3-4 usually for hours at a rate I was not allowed to talk about in the shop because several people who had been there for 2+ years were making the same or less.. 
Two of the techs at the time there had gone to lincoln tech.. one I had advanced passed after the first few weeks the other one was one of the top guys and still is to this day. Both the guy who was not great and the guy who was great both agreed it sucked and was not worth their time. Both went in just because they didn't know what they wanted to do.. The guy who was doing well is one of the best techs I have ever met, not only did he pick everything up he learned, he wanted to learn and was willing to share.. Many techs take the your my replacement attitude and won't help you.
I later left the dealer, went to work for AWE tuning after only 2 years of actual experience.. went back to the dealer 2 years after that.. was only there for a few months went to another shop for a year and now have had my own shop for a little over a year.. No formal training ever.. Maybe 3 weeks total tops of VW factory training. Some of the classes I didnt' even learn a damn thing I knew it already just from handson in the shop and trying it myself (sorry I learned that class how to put the printer on the 5051 into a setting so it wouldn't have to warm up all the time).
Tech schools have their place.. They get certain people motivated to do a job but when it comes to the real world... sorry they are no better then the guy next to them just becuase they went to tech school.
As someone mentioned you have it or you don't.
I took a job at the audi dealer I got my A3 from for the winter since the performance business slows down a little. I started just last week. 2 years out of a dealer just doing performance stuff.. I walked in and asked fo 25% more then what I was making last time I was at a dealer and they accepted it without blinking (damn should have asked for more)... Hell I don't even have my tools there yet since I need them this week at my shop for a few jobs and have not had chance to setup a second set and they didn't care.. they just wanted me to get started asap.
If you knwo what you are doing and are good you will get further and make more then someone who has a piece of paper claiming they know but don't necessarily know what they are doing.
As for ASE certs.. They are all about just knowing the answer to their question not about actually knwoing the asnwer.. I've taken them and passed some.. failed some.. One round I left a VW factory class early to go attend. I was in class for A/C and I was taking the ASE A/C test that day.. still didn't pass.. not becuase I didnt' know the right answers its because just simple term changes between what VW uses and what they confuse the answers.. A part you may have had in your hands 5 minutes before could be called something entirely different and because of that its like your reading something in another language.
read the study books for ASE once and if you don't pass the tests you really don't deserve too.
Oh and germansquadVR6.. not sure where you are getting your salary info from but when I started in 99 there were 2 techs working 40 hour weeks and billing out over 60 hours pulling in 70K plus.. there has been a big jump in labor rates in our area since then and those techs in the same positions making the same time would be doig well into the 6 figured without batting an eye.
Just hopping back into a dealer even if I don't make time and I just get my guarantee I'll make more then your claimed max... so your numbers are alittle off.


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (Hugh Gordon)*

u never worked on any cars but yours? wow i deff would not want u working on my R32 Mr " MASTER TECH" because i circled the right letters on the test







it really pissses me off how people get things by just doing on paper , saying and DOING is not the same thing.


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## Zyzzyan (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*

That is why I do, and can do, both.


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_As for ASE certs.. They are all about just knowing the answer to their question not about actually knwoing the asnwer.. I've taken them and passed some.. failed some.. One round I left a VW factory class early to go attend. I was in class for A/C and I was taking the ASE A/C test that day.. still didn't pass.. not becuase I didnt' know the right answers its because just simple term changes between what VW uses and what they confuse the answers.. A part you may have had in your hands 5 minutes before could be called something entirely different and because of that its like your reading something in another language.

They use the real actual name of the part, not what each individual company renames it. I don't know when you took the tests, but the ones I took weren't like that at all. Most of the stuff you won't know without being a fairly good tech. The failure rate is 33% for a reason. Average age of Master Techs is 41.


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mechsoldier* »_
They use the real actual name of the part, not what each individual company renames it. I don't know when you took the tests, but the ones I took weren't like that at all. Most of the stuff you won't know without being a fairly good tech. The failure rate is 33% for a reason. Average age of Master Techs is 41. 

Depends how you look at it.. They use the names domestic companies use not what german or japanese companies use. So its much easier for someone from there to walk in and pass the test with actual experience, someone who works for say VW has alot of stuff to rethink in their heads.
Even the wiring diagrams if you are used to reading VW ones its like looking at a third graders map of how he gets to school, they are terrible. Electrical was cake though, even with that.

Average age is 41 and a failure rate of only 33% doesn't really match each other.. where are those numbers from?

EDIT: When it comes down to it ASE don't mean a damn thing anyway most of the time.. If you're trying to get a job at a gas station or pep boys, or possibly even a domestic dealer then fine. But I've never heard anyone care one bit about them at a VW or Audi dealer. I've never once heard a customer be concerned that a tech is ASE certified or not.. 


_Modified by PD Performance at 4:38 AM 11/9/2005_


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (PD Performance)*

Those numbers come from ASE. I emailed them to ask when I got my certs. American companies do it to, like Chevy calls it HEI ignition, ASE will just say a variable reluctance rpm sensing distributor (or similar).


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## CuseTownGTi (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

i've seen/known soo many smucks work on cars at dealerships or local shops, not sure if they've had schooling or not, but 
Half the time i think its not what you know, but who you know


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## blueG60rado (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: (CuseTownGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CuseTownGTi* »_i've seen/known soo many smucks work on cars at dealerships or local shops, not sure if they've had schooling or not, but 
Half the time i think its not what you know, but who you know


That's the cool thing about flat rate techs. If you're a shmuck you won't make any money.


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## GermanSquadVR6 (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (CuseTownGTi)*

holly COW! someone here has got it !!! "
"Half the time i think its not what you know, but who you know"
that i have been seeing allot latley and this is the way the world runs.
If u dont kno anyone who is big in this business good luck finding a job. im not talkin pepboys, im not talkin some little stupid dealership. im talkin coorperate stuff. u get to choose what car u want. u get great benefits , payed vaca, insurance payed all . **** the dealers unless its top quality and the people are good to you.


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (GermanSquadVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GermanSquadVR6* »_holly COW! someone here has got it !!! "
"Half the time i think its not what you know, but who you know"
that i have been seeing allot latley and this is the way the world runs.
If u dont kno anyone who is big in this business good luck finding a job. im not talkin pepboys, im not talkin some little stupid dealership. im talkin coorperate stuff. u get to choose what car u want. u get great benefits , payed vaca, insurance payed all . **** the dealers unless its top quality and the people are good to you.

You can get all of that at a dealer too.. Most techs don't get a company car but many offer insentives.. Also alot of actual factory employees don't just get a car they just get insane lease offers.. Example instructors at the VW training centers don't get company cars... But alot of dealer staff does along with the rest of the benefits..
There are perks to both being on the dealer level and on the manufacture level.


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