# codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

Re my post of DTC codes i keep getting on my scanner 
Engine 17978 Engine start blocked by immobiliser
Immobiliser 01176 Static KEY signal to small 
I went to the VW dealer who put the car on thier scanner as suggested and they said what we all thought it was the pick up ring on the ignition barrel . Bought one coded up for both keys ( They can do this with the chassis number ) fitted it . Started and stopped the car about 10 times no DTC coming up on scanner . Took it for a ten mile run , when i got back exactly the same faults logged and the next time i tried it started and stopped straight away but always starts the next turn . Deleted them again ran the car all day came home no faults in scanner , came out 3 hours later started car OK put scanner on faults back . Any one with any ideas please , because i am stumped and the VW dealer says he cannot understand it . All he says he thinks it may be picking up some thing from some where !!!!. Checked the radio and CD unit both VW ones and wired into the loom properly . Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

The dealer did the thing that fixes this kind of problem most of the time, which is to replace the pickup coil. However, there is no coding involved in replacing this part. Given that the pickup coil isn't the cause, you've either got a bad connection somewhere between it and the immobilizer, or the immobilizer itself is dodgy. 
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

I replaced the pick up and it comes with a long cable that just plugs into what i presume is the immobiliser . It is a right pig to do as it needs all the covers taking off because it goes along the steering column but it is covered with a cover and foam then around the back into the back of the instrument panel . I made sure all the foam was put back in case it was there to stop interference . So a bad connection can be ruled out as it comes complete with a new cable fitted . I expect the immobiliser could be faulty , can these be bought separate .
What I cannot understand is most of the time the error code both in the engine section & immobiliser section has Static as part of the code , as though some thing is interfering with the signal . Plus the car has never ever failed to start the second turn of the key even if it starts and stops .Also most of the time the errors are in the ECU but the car starts on the button even when they are there . I have been told the 17978 code engine blocked by immobiliser comes up loads of times when put on a scanner and not to be to bothered by it . Could the Radio or CD interfer with the immobiliser because i have 12 volts at pins 4 & 7 even though they are VW units and use the plugs available ( my U581 scanner will not link up with the car , only my Vagcom scanner ) . The CD was not with the car when new but bought and fitted after-woulds . many thanks for replying . Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

"Static" is simply the opposite of "Sporadic" / "Intermittent". When a DTC is marked Sporadic or Intermittent, it means the fault condition that set the DTC did not exist (or could not be detected) at time the scan was performed. Most scanners do explicitly report "Static", it is implied if the DTC is not flagged "Sporadic" or "Intermittent".
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Hi UWE many thanks for that info very helpfull , so it means the fault occurred whilst i was doing the scan !!!!! I will be honest its doing my head in the car has been on my scanner the VW Dealers scanner and my friends owns a garage that does just car diagnostics and he has had it for a day hooked up to a scanner which cost him over 10 grand from the states and not one can come up with a positive answer . It does the same with both ignition keys so in theory that knocks them on the head , the ECU is new , and the immobiliser pick up is new and no errors on the instrument side . I can sit there and put the key in and out 20 times and get no error then i get one . Or leave the car with no errors in it come back 1 hour later put the key in turn ignition on scan nothing , then start the engine which it does fine rescan and the errors are back but the car is starting even when it says Engine Start Blocked by Immobiliser & Key signal to low . If it was not starting full stop i could understand it , but i can count on one hand the number of times its started then stopped but started the next turn of the key in 2-3 weeks . Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*


_Quote »_so it means the fault occurred whilst i was doing the scan !!!!

Not necessarily while you were doing the scan, but during that ignition cycle most likely. 
If the car starts on the first try most of the time and always starts on the second try, I'm not sure it's worth dealing with. 
Since I don't know which Polo you have, it's difficult to offer any more specific advice. You should post a complete auto-scan, but I suppose you can't because you don't have VC?
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Hi UWE, Many thanks for sticking with me , 
My car is a 2000 Polo Estate S 6K Model with the 1600cc engine , code AKL . It was made from 2000-2002 
As i said my scanner will not pick up live data and the car is not can bus , but it has been on VWs own scanner & another very expensive one with nothing apart from the DTC fault codes coming up . I know what you are saying because if i am honest if i did not have a scanner or know anything about them i would just carry on driving the car as it only fails to start first time very occasionally and runs sweet as a nut . But I am a 60 odd year old X mechanic who has trouble getting his head around this new fang-led electronics . But pride my self in all my cars running perfect . I can rebuild and tune multi carb engines but electronics sorry 
Any way i have seen a post were you suggested taking the battery leads of and holding them together for approx 30 seconds to sort out erasing this type of problem , do you think its worth trying because i think VW really don't know what the problem is , fair enough must be hard if intermitent . Now they are talking about changing immobiliser and from which i gather is the full instrument panel . More money as ECU and pick up are new plus tempreture sender . 
You are right about the error logged during the ignition cycle , as i did the test again nothing with just the key in the on position but after i started the engine codes back in scanner . Many thanks Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

I don't know where you get "6K". The 6K chassis is a Seat, not a VW.
I don't know enough about your Polo to tell you whether the Immo is part of the cluster or a stand-alone box. If it's the latter, they're not very expensive. Are your immobilizer faults in Address 17 or 25? What's the part number of the immo? Any scanner than car read VAG codes should be able to tell you the part number, and if it can't, you should get a better scanner. ;-)
I don't expect that cold-booting the car will help in this case or I would have suggested it. OTOH, it can't hurt much either, and the price is right. My biggest worry would be that your radio would end up in SAFE mode, which is not a concern assuming you have the security code for the radio. 
-Uwe-


----------



## dana vw tech (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

Are you using just one or both of the programmed keys? If you have only been using one of them, maybe try the other to rule out a bad key?


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Hi UWE i know the chassis 6K is Seat but my car is a Year 2000 Polo estate S only built from 2000- 2002 known as (internal designation Type 6N2, unofficially known as the Mark 3F) I have been told by VW its based on the SEAT Córdoba Mk1 plus the Polo saloon not hatch back , basically bits of one model and bits of others . Like the engine is a AKL 100bhp one !!!!!!!!. It is called a face lift model . Cannot get a manual on it any where 
Vin number WVWZZZ6KZYR519997
In the sections the engine is 1 i cannot think which is the immo i do not have the scanner with me , but this is the ECU and immo information 
In the Engine Section 
Engine VAG No 6K0906019
Component
1.6i R4/2V Simos HS
SO 73
Coding 00011
WSC 06402
17978-163 01/01
KWP1281
P1570
In the Immobilizer Section
VAG No 6X0953257
IMMO
0004
CODING 00001
WSC 00000
Code 01176-135
KWP1281
KEY SIGNAL TO SMALL
Cheers Tony
P.s dana vw tech
Many thanks for your input yes i have tried both keys and get the same codes with each one . So keys should be OK , ECU new , pick up for immo new . With it having the early immo on it did not need any reprogramming to refit the ECU they took the old one and transferred every thing onto that so all you do is plug back in . Re key transponder pick up if you give VW the chassis number they put the info into that when ordering so nothing needs programming back in just replace . Only other thing is immobiliser !!!!! is it all the panel or just a stand alone component


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

That's a separate Immo, not integrated in the cluster. Looks like this:
*** EDIT ***
Picture from http://shop.avw-autoverwertung.de/ deleted.
-Uwe-




_Modified by Uwe at 8:54 PM 7-27-2009_


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Sorry UWE only got a picture of a lorry . !!!


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

Hmm, they changed the picture. That will teach me to embedd pics from somebody else's site.








Here's another pic:
http://www.direct-keys.co.uk/i...4.jpg
And another:
http://repettoservice.com.ar/i...4.jpg
I'm not embedding the pics this time, to try to avoid people changing 'em or blocking 'em.
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Cheers UWE , I do appreciate your help and you sticking with me . I am sure that is what i plugged the new pick up wire into it had 3 wires in the cable , i expect from the the other socket a cable goes to the ECU or starter !!!!!!. What would you suggest doing i have read that sometimes the contacts in the immo get dirty and to spray electrical contact cleaner on them ( I should have done that when i had every thing off to do the pick up ) Or would you just order another immobiliser and get the keys reprogrammed again . I ran it today all day about 20 + starts and right up to this evening nothing , started first flick of key runs mint . But I always know when its logged the codes because when starting it will hesitate just for a second as you turn the key ie not start instantly but if you keep the key turned a second longer it starts and not cut out , but you know its just not right . Sure enough both codes were logged in engine and immo sections . Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

I would certainly try cleaning the contacts first. A new Immo box isn't horribly expensive, but I don't like throwing unneeded parts at cars. 
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Hi UWE and every one , I tried contact cleaner today on the immobiliser contacts and every thing is still the same . Its either buy a new Immobiliser or i have heard that with the early immobilisers if you send the ECU away to a ECU specialists with prove of ownership they can take it out of the system , if that is so i would sooner do that and get an after market immobiliser . I am really at a dead end now , as all I get from VW is replace every thing and the immobiliser is now the only thing I have not replaced or had re-programmed . By the time the problem is sorted out ( if ever ) it will have cost what i paid for the car . I bought a VW thinking of its supposed build quality and reliability , but on seeing on the site all the trouble they now have I wish i had not bothered . Tony
Could any one tell me if it is possible to do away with the immobiliser please


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

Don't be so negative. It's a 9 year old car. You have to expect some failures at that age, and a new Immobilizer box is not very expensive. 
I don't doubt that there are people who can remove the immobilizer functionality from the ECU if that's what you really want, but if you do that, I wouldn't bother with an aftermarket one as installing one would just hack up the wiring and decrease reliability. 
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Hi UWE , I am not being negative i have only owned the car a month and in that time I have replaced . Catalytic converter and full exhaust , ECU unit ,immo pick up coil , Throttle body , Radiator , temp sensor , electric window motor and switch . Never mind paying for diagnostics at VW which have not solved this last problem . This is on a 2 owner 60000 mile car with full VW dealer service history , add the prices of that lot together and its nearly as much as i gave for the car and i have that much money in it now i cannot get out of it . I know the immobiliser is not that expensive if it cures the fault , but if it doesn't what do i do then the dealer does not know what the problem is and i don't !!!!!! . Also with the car there are bills the previous owner has paid out for over two thousand pounds .Plus in the Forum the number of VW owners who are stuck like myself with problems the VW dealers cannot rectify is unreal . Mostly Electronic related ones. I will have to buy a new immobiliser as it is the only thing i have left to try now unless you have any more ideas any thing is appreciated . I take on board your comments on not bothering with a after market immobiliser . Cheers Tony


----------



## dana vw tech (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

I know you are having a difficult time with repair data, but if you have a wiring schematic check the Powers and Grounds to the immobilizer module.
This is just a idea and may be fine, but if you have found the module location and have some time it may be worth checking into.
We had a separate Immo. box in the Cabrio models up until 2002 (when they quit making the model). I took a look at that wire schematic and it looks pretty simple. I do not know about your model but it has to be similar. You could run a overlay harness for testing purposes. This would rule out a possible intermittent bad ground or voltage drop to the module itself. You could also check the wire from the Immo. to the Ecm as well for a poor connection or faulty pin / terminal. 
Because your problem is intermittent, this will be difficult to get a conclusive diagnosis. If all of the other checks are okay then I vote on replacement or Immo.


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (dana vw tech)*

Cheers for the info , the problem i have is my car is the Polo estate face lift model made from 2000-2002 and there are no manual's for it to get any wiring details or even any other details . According to VW its made up from other VW models SEAT Córdoba Mk1 plus the Polo saloon not hatch back , even the 1600cc AKL engine it has fitted is not in most 1600cc Polo's . It was only made for 2 years 
I will have a look at the ECM i think i called it the ECU . because never have i seen such a stupid place to put one because when it rains water just drops right on top of it from the plastic drain channel under the sceen and it is not damaged its how it was built . This was why it was replaced after i got the car , the ECM had got wet and got rust inside it and the engine ran rough . I have put it inside a plastic bag and made a plastic cover to put on top to stop it getting water on it again , plus covered it in waxoyl . I have bought some contact cleaner anythings worth a go . Like you say its like a poor connection because some times i can do 20 starts before the fault codes log in , then some times it will log them on a run . But when i think about it now when i was moving the unit about to get the plastic cover fitted the faults were straight in the system when i checked and came up about three times in a row . May have been just coincidence but its worth a try . Cheers Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*


_Quote »_the problem i have is my car is the Polo estate face lift model made from 2000-2002 and there are no manual's for it to get any wiring details or even any other details . 

I have a really hard time believing that. Have you checked here?
https://erwin.volkswagen.de/
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Hi Uwe , Thanks for the site i will pay for a days info and see what i can find . But do you not think before i made the statement i had not been in touch with Haynes , Chilton's , Autodata , and VW them selves . Its like when i said the vin number was 6K same as seat you said impossible until i sent my cars Vin number WVWZZZ6KZYR519997 . All have come back with a No there is no manual covering this face lift model as its made up from different cars . Even VW when they replace parts on it have to look up not POLO but the part number they are replacing and do the job re part . I have come from parts three times with the wrong part because of this & now always give Vin number & engine number . 
Every car i buy i try and get the genuine factory manual or CD and as much info as i can , i have the Autodata CD and that only gives sparse info on this car , you have to go from make to make with part number . Regards Tony


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

Hi I have unplugged every thing today the ECM plus any thing to do with the immobiliser system , I have even bought a special spray for electronics & electrics that is supposed to make connections 20% better plus before i used that I sprayed every thing with contact cleaner pushed all the connections back together . Plus I have taken the immobiliser out and done the same with that cleaned with contact cleaner and the other spray . I must have stopped and started the car at least 12 times with no errors logged . I then took the car for a long drive so i could get a test report on my scanner came back put scanner on no Errors logged . I then left it for a few minutes came back started and stopped the car and guess what Bang same errors codes back in the system . Unreal

Engine Section - 17978 Engine start blocked by immobiliser. No Display
P1570 

Immobiliser Section - 01176 Key Signal To Low

I am now at a loss as what to do and so are VW because they cannot find any fault on their scanner they just tell me to replace things , I have replaced the ECM , Key pick up coil , had both Keys Re-Programmed , Cleaned contacts in both ECM & the Immobiliser . What I cannot understand is 99% of the time the engine is starting first time even with the fault codes logged in the ECM , plus why can I stop the car have no errors in it , then next time i come back and start it the Errors are back !!!!!!! . Any one any more suggestions please Help


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

Polo Estate S Year 2000 1600cc Petrol engine AKL
Still got the same errors even after putting a new immobiliser on the car they exchange them at your dealers for just under £100 . So still not got to the bottom of the problem . I just do not know what to do next !!!!!!
If the car was not starting full stop i could understand it with the codes 
Engine 17978 -Engine blocked by Immobiliser & Immobiliser - Key Signal to small , but it is starting 99% of the time first time even with the DTC s logged 
Two questions Number 1- Where is the light to tell you the immobiliser is working , is it the small red LCD on the Radio . 
Number Two is it possible the Radio -CD could be interfering with the Immobiliser , They are genuine VW units wired via the proper plugs BUT when i check i am getting 13 volts at the pins in the Diagnostic connector when it says i should only be getting around 3 volts . Any advice greatly appreciated . Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

There may not be an immobilizer warning light. Cars with separate, stand-alone immo boxes often don't have them. For example our 2001 T4 (Caravelle / Eurovan) does not.
I doubt the radio is causing this. But you could always try unplugging it for a bit to be sure. 
We did recently have a another thread, don't recall if it was here or somewhere else, where somebody found a correlation between Key Signal too Low codes and his mobile phone actively sending and receiving data. *** EDIT *** It was here and I see you've found it.
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Cheers UWE , I have done the only thing i can think off as i am now at a dead end !!!!!!, I have even taken out all Audio equipment and it is still the same . 
When I went to pick up the Immobiliser from VW I spoke to what was supposed to be their top Diagnostic Technician who said if it was him he would get the keys reprogrammed again as over time they loose their effectiveness or can get corrupted . So that is the last thing another £50-£80 . Many thanks for the input Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

If you're replaced the Immobilizer, then the keys have already been reprogrammed. I also don't believe that the keys "over time they loose their effectiveness or can get corrupted". 
However, I'm generally out of ideas as to what could be wrong with your car. 
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Hi UWE , Many thanks for trying to solve my problem even though we are both now stumped . Plus i do not think VW have a clue 
I am happy though that you agree with me on the Key subject . I said exactly the same thing to the Technician at VW in my mind fair enough if a key with a transponder was left in say a micro wave this may effect it . But to loose its effectiveness over time , sorry i cannot see that . On the new immobilizer side i gave the chassis number and exchanged it at the dealers and fitted it myself and the car started as it has always done , exactly the same as when i replaced the coil pick up . To be honest i am now at a complete loss as to what to do either 
1- Leave it as it is and keep running it and not erase the errors until the car fails to start and then try to find the fault again as it may have got that bad some thing will show up
2- Take it for the last time to the dealers and get them to re-programme every thing , then see what happens . 
3 - Send the ECU away again and ask them to check it out even though it has only just been done at £200 
The only thing i have noticed is when error code 17978 Engine start blocked by immobiliser comes up some times there is a footnote saying ( No Indication on Display ) what that means i do not know as i have never seen any immobiliser display light , symbol , etc any where . Tony


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*


_Quote »_On the new immobilizer side i gave the chassis number and exchanged it at the dealers and fitted it myself and the car started as it has always done , exactly the same as when i replaced the coil pick up 

Interesting. I wasn't aware they were doing it that way now. It used to be that stand-alone Immo-2 units would come with a PIN sticker on 'em and you had to program your existing keys to them (using the PIN on the sticker) as well as match it to the ECU (which doesn't require a PIN on Immo-2).
I really don't think the ECU is at fault here. The Immo system works like this: When you put in the key and turn the ignition on, the Immo box communicates with the key and makes a determination whether the key is authorized or not. If it sees an unauthorized key, it will set a fault code stating so. If it can't communicate with they key, it will set a fault code stating that (which is the one you're seeing). When you turn the key to the start position, and the ECU detects the motor cranking, it asks the Immo whether it's OK to start. If the Immo says "no" then the ECU shuts down fuel and/or spark and such and the engine won't run. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I take it that you've always found a Key - Signal too Low fault in the Immo when you've found and Engine Start blocked by Immobilizer fault in the engine, right? If so, the root of the problem is somewhere around the Immo and not in the ECU. 
The dumb thing is that you've already replaced the Immo and the pickup coil, and both your keys do these codes, correct? And you've checked all the wiring and grounds, right?
At this point, if the car just produces these codes sporadically, but almost always starts on the first try and always starts on the second try, it might be best to just accept this and live with it. OTOH, if the car really refuses to start even on the second try sometimes, that's when you need to trouble-shoot it. Start by looking at the Immo's measuring blocks, 
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

UWE. Yes what you are saying is 90% , correct nothing I have bought has come with a pin sticker on it , i have ordered it via the chassis number . Again i understand now how the system works with your simple explanation and again what you say is what is happening most of the time 
1- It does it with both keys 
2- It never fails to start second time if it does fail to start the first time 
3- Yes they are the faults always logged But  always as Static 
5- This is the only one wrong you have got , the codes are always coming up as Static and not Sporadic if i am not mistaken sporadic is what are sometimes called Pending codes . If they were coming up as such i would not be that bothered . But they are always coming up as Static which we would call a full blown DTC Error and most times would put the MIL light on . 
6- Yes I have already replaced the Immo and the pickup coil, and both the keys are doing the codes correct . Yes I have checked all the wiring and grounds
I know i am being picky as from what i have seen on the Forum the number of owners saying car hard to start . These must have the same codes as myself logged it is maybe they have no diagnostic to plug in to their car and they are still running them . But i am a 60 odd year old X garage owner who always has had my cars spot on . But cannot get my head around this new Electronics like you young bucks . I can rebuild racing engines and tune multi carbs etc but electronics







. Any way i think i will take your advice , run the car and see if things get worse and then see what the Blocks come up with . Again many thanks for your patience with an old F--- and all your help . Tony


_Modified by f1bash at 12:35 AM 8-3-2009_


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

Hi UWE , Sorry for this after what i have just replied to you . I cannot believe it , I have just gone to the car this morning and it started first time with no errors logged . Went back after a cuppa and it would not start it turned over for ages but did start in the end . Put scanner on and this Engine Error code has popped up now
00668 -Supply Terminal 30 Static Interruption 
From what i can gather this is Battery Power Voltage Supply (Terminal 30) i have no wiring diagram could you tell me where this is please 
Could this have any thing to do with the other problems or is it another problem i have got . Cheers Tony


_Modified by f1bash at 12:46 AM 8-3-2009_


----------



## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (f1bash)*

Terminal 30 is unswitched +12. But 00668 is only half the code. There should be more numbers. VC would show them to you on a second line.
-Uwe-


----------



## f1bash (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: codes 17978 & 01176 still in after dealer looking (Uwe)*

Got it booked in with VW again so they can try to find some thing i cannot , as it is just not now starting and stopping straight away then starting the next turn off the key . But just keeps turning over for a long while without trying to start . I then take the key out the ignition and try again and it starts . Yet I am only getting the same error codes 
Engine 17978 Engine start blocked by immobiliser
Immobiliser 01176 Static KEY signal to small - but now get sporodic as well 
Tony


----------

