# Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (long)



## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

I'm sure I speak for all members in saying how the VWvortex staff never ceases to amaze me with their "inside" knowledge of VAG happenings, and influence with VWoA (e.g. GTI 337). Mad props to all of you for continuing to do so, and sharing with the rest of us through this site








There exists another aspect of VAG and VWoA that needs your help. It seems that the quality of not only the product, but also the service & support organization behind it, have fallen off in recent years







These forums are increasingly populated with posts regarding vehicle problems, both isolated and endemic (e.g. MAF sensors, coil packs). Many of these posts often include horror stories regarding unprofessional dealer service to address these problems, followed by apathy on the part of VWoA's "Customer Care."
Some of these problems are often considered simple "whining;" the so-called "true" VW enthusiasts claim these issues to be minor and thus undeserving of attention







However, such sources as Consumer Reports indicate otherwise, given VW's recent poor showing regarding product quality/reliability and service/support satisfaction.
I consider myself an enthusiast, and wish to remain so; I haven't "jumped ship" despite VAG's and VWoA's foibles. However, my enthusiasm grows thin, given the above as well as VWoA's frequent "witch hunts" regarding modifications. (VWoA representatives often claim to love our enthusiasm, while denying warranty service for even the most minor and unrelated modifications







) I'm confident I'm not alone in wanting to stay faithful to the brand, and therefore, hoping to see real improvement in both product and support to maintain that faith http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Therefore, Jaimie et al, I ask you to wield your influence in bringing to VAG's and VWoA's attention the above problems that we, the VW enthusiasts, continue to face in the course of our enthusiasm. VW needs to realize the need for sweeping improvements in build quality, dealer service, and manufacturer support. This is especially important given VW's expansion into higher-priced markets. I know I'm not the only one who sees another Passat W8 fiasco as VW tries to sell $40,000 Touraegs and $70,000 Phaetons through a system that can't even satisfy its $15,000 Golf customers








I'll get off my soap box now. Thank you








*Edit* for spelling










[Modified by Helicon Twist, 11:49 AM 1-15-2003]


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## Mk3WhiteWolf (Mar 4, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Vanilla_Coke (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cerksies (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Vanilla_Coke)*

Right on! My roomate went thru h*ll this summer when he was having a problem with his TDI... The dealer couldnt even fix it at first and charged him $600. It turned out to be a MAF and they basically had no idea what they were doing. 
~Pete


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## VW KEVIN G (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (cerksies)*

Well said. Hopefully someday VWoA will change for the better. (Hopefully before I loose all faith in them.)


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## dwx4 (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (VW KEVIN G)*

Another "Well Said" http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
VW needs to seriously look into its dealer network and work on its reliability and service, as it does affect sales and repeat buyers!


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## speedgator (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (dwx4)*

It absolutely affects sales, I'm holding off buying one until they figure out the coilpack issue. Perhaps even buying something else altogether out of the VAG family. Sad.














http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Well put Helicon Twist, well put. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PassatB5.5 (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (speedgator)*

yes well said, and has been well said ad nauseam. It's more than obvious that VW is NOT listening and is all talk but no action. 2004/5 will be a critical time for them as that will be the proof in the pudding if things are going to change for the better.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (PassatB5.5)*

quote:[HR][/HR]yes well said, and has been well said ad nauseam.[HR][/HR]​In one form or another, perhaps. But I'm specifically calling on the Vortex honchos to bring these issues directly to VW - beyond what us mere members can do - to effect needed improvements, for both the satisfaction of customers and the future of VW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Sprockets (Feb 17, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I haven't had any troubles, myself, but I definitely don't want to. I wouldn't want to have a bad experience with my dealer, but you never know what would actually happen. I would prefer to be confident in them.
VW has an extremely valuable resource here in the Vortex. It's obvious that they do pay it attention, so let's hope for an even brighter future.


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## PassatB5.5 (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Sprockets)*

quote:[HR][/HR]http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I haven't had any troubles, myself, but I definitely don't want to. I wouldn't want to have a bad experience with my dealer, but you never know what would actually happen. I would prefer to be confident in them.
VW has an extremely valuable resource here in the Vortex. It's obvious that they do pay it attention, so let's hope for an even brighter future.[HR][/HR]​Really? Then I don't think this would be posted here would it? I don't think there would be hundreds of these postings asking/complaining over and over for the same things. I'm glad you are having a good experience, don't get me wrong. But there are just as many bad experiences and clearly there is a deficiency with VW, period. Dubbers have been trying to tell VW for awhile now that changes need to be made. VW keeps claiming they know, they understand. Well it's time for them to sh*t or get off the pot.
Whew, I feel better...










[Modified by PassatB5.5, 9:33 PM 1-15-2003]


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Agree 100%. There are many firt-time VW buyers on the road and between the quality issues (coil packs, currently) and the indifference of VWoA to being forthcoming with their customers, the market will make the company pay.
My dealer has been good, but the corporate folks have been worse than horrible.
I suggested elsewhere that they need a new CEO and some new leadership... people that understand what "Customer Care" (LMAO derisively) is REALLY all about.


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## DEZLBOY (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Last VW)*

Agreed! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## carbonfiberquattro (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (DEZLBOY)*

agreed. totally. my complaint would definently have to be more towards the staffing of vw audi related facilities. basically..they need to get the vortex forum writers (well really just folks of similar mindset) selling and servicing our products. when you look at something as simply a form of income and not a passion you tend to not put forth the 110% necessary to deliver a quality product. unfortunately after my latest experience with --- audi and the three clutches (apr ones too...not cheap)i went through as a result of their lack of workmanship and the cold shoulders i received when confronting them with their errors i have even started to consider looking elsewhere for my next vehicle (subaru, bmw perhaps). please get something together up there at corporate.


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## hognozzle (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (carbonfiberquattro)*

well put.
i agree!


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## QcGTI (Sep 28, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Sprockets (Feb 17, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (PassatB5.5)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I haven't had any troubles, myself, but I definitely don't want to. I wouldn't want to have a bad experience with my dealer, but you never know what would actually happen. I would prefer to be confident in them.
VW has an extremely valuable resource here in the Vortex. It's obvious that they do pay it attention, so let's hope for an even brighter future.
-----
Really? Then I don't think this would be posted here would it? I don't think there would be hundreds of these postings asking/complaining over and over for the same things. I'm glad you are having a good experience, don't get me wrong. But there are just as many bad experiences and clearly there is a deficiency with VW, period. Dubbers have been trying to tell VW for awhile now that changes need to be made. VW keeps claiming they know, they understand. Well it's time for them to sh*t or get off the pot.
Whew, I feel better...







[HR][/HR]​Perhaps you didn't understand what I wrote. That is the exact reason this is posted here. VWoA does pay attention to what's going on at the Vortex. That can be proven by looking in the GTI/337/R32 Forums. If they did not, there would be no point in directing something at their attention.
Furthermore, I stated that I myself have not had any trouble. However, I sincerely hope I don't, as I don't want to experience the "bad service" first hand. I feel sorry for those that have had such experiences, as it is very unprofessional, and unwarranted for a company like VW to treat their customers that way. Not much more I can say about that.
I'm hoping for the best in the future with such issues. I've seen evidence from Jamie that VW is active in making improvements and that it will take time. Unfortunately, it isn't evident yet. All we can do, as VW enthusiasts, is hope that the improvements become reality: soon.
Ahhhh... I feel better now, too.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Sprockets)*

Echoing the replies I've received, Sprockets: Well said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

VW/Audi's loss of sales/market share this year will be directly proportional to the amount of time it takes the company to proactively address the problem in a communication to customers.
The longer the lag, the more the sales and market share will drop.
They may be able to get away with sort of crap in Germany, but the ultra-competitive U.S. car market is far less forgiving. They will pay for their arrogance/disinterest.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Here are some thoughts I have based on several generations of VW ownership and having worked so closely with them for the last five years.
First some perspective:
- Volkswagen almost pulled out of this market in 1993 when they sold less than 50,000 cars that year. Product was in the toilet, dealerships were struggling and marketing couldn't sell water in a desert. Better dealers were abandoning VW in droves, management at VWoA was a revolving door and Germany couldn't figure this market out to save their life. If you think today is bad, you have NO idea. Now remember that this was only 10 years ago.
- When Dr. Piech took over at Volkswagen he had a gigantic mess on his hands. Labor costs were through the roof, nearly all manufacturing plants were in desperate need of rehab, product lines were poorly positioned, poorly built and selling poorly, previous management left behind a wake of people that were underqualified or not quaified for the positions they were in, and to make matters worse, VW owned two other car manufacturers with equal or worse problems - Seat and Skoda. 
Piech desperately needed new products for every company - Audi, VW, Skoda and Seat. The only way to do this quickly and relatively cost effectively was to use platform and component sharing. On top of this VW had to completely overhaul not only the product line, but nearly every factory, every supply line, every supplier and more. Literally billions of dollars of investments had to be made across the globe. Every factory worker had to be retrained on all-new assembly line and assembly procedures. All new suppliers had to be found for cars that were going to contain WAY more components and electronics than ever before. So much was changed that in some ways it was a miracle that the cars even started at the end of the production line.
- Meanwhile back here in the U.S. VWoA had another management shakeup and decided to boot their long-standing ad agency BBDO and went with a small, agile and determined Arnold Communications which came up with the Drivers Wanted Slogan in 1995.
- The fruits of all this investment and change weren't seen till 1997 (just six years ago) when the all-new Passat came out and changed completely the face and future of VW's product lines. In 1998 the all-new Golf IV was introduced and literally set new standards in fit and finish and standard features in small cars (the Golf IV alone required $400 million dollars in new investments at the Wolfsburg factory). The cars were vastly improved over anything VW had built in the 10 years previous but in all those changes to bring it to market and new supplier cost pressure, some components had issues (window regulators and the more recent coil packs are two good examples).
- 1998 the New Beetle was introduced in the U.S. and put VWoA on its ear. Whether you know this or not, VW has less than 700 dealers in the whole U.S. Of those dealers VW was ranked second to last next to Kia in stand-alone VW franchises (meaning a dealer that was dedicated to only selling Volkswagen products). Most of VW's best dealers either bailed and left or had to partner up with other brands (most often Mazda) to try and survive. Consequently you ended up with a few good dealers here and there and a LOT of battered and tired dealers that didn't believe in the product or the company any longer. Now VWoA is waltzing in saying everything is changed and going to be better, please spend LOTS of money to improve your dealership immediately - YEAH RIGHT.
- Thus begins the long process of basically wining and dining the existing dealers trying to convince them what a good guy VWoA is, how committed they are and that they really, really want a long term relationship. This kind of courtship takes a lot of time. Unfortunately there hasn't been enough time. VW has doubled (nearly trippled) their product lineup over the last seven years and most dealerships today can't keep up. Their dealerships aren't big enough, don't have nearly enough service bays to service all these cars, not enough room for all the new parts and not enough space in general. VWoA has been offering dealers straight cash and financiing to help build new facilities which you are starting to see now. They even offered every dealer several hundred thousand if they would consider building a stand alone all-new dealership - only a third bit on the offer. 
- Meanwhile VWoA has put a 300+ page Brand Standards program together that basically tells the dealers exactly how they should run their dealership - something dealers don't usually care for. VWoA can "influence" dealers to do something, but they can't make them - it is ultimately up to the dealer to make that decision. Good ol U.S.A. laws protect dealers big time from manufacturers and the laws vary in every state. For instance VW can try and use CSI ratings against a dealer demanding a minimum level and if it isn't met can try and restrict the amount of product the dealer gets. This is a very tricky game for VWoA to play since they can be sued in certain states for this type of thing. Audi for instance had a dealer in Florida with the worst CSI ratings in the country, never did anything they were asked, had tons of customer complaints, etc. Audi of America pulled their franchise from them. The dealer sued and won 14 million dollars in damages from Audi. So it cost Audi 14 million to get rid of one bad dealer, sent a bad message to the rest of the dealer network and cause lots of public trauma as well in the automotive press.
- So today VWAG is moving forward with all-new products. What we are seeing with the all-new Touareg and Phaeton and what we are going to see with the next generation Passat and Golf/Jetta is really stage II of the whole restructuring process which is largely fixing all the little things that didn't go right the last time and polishing it up. The Touareg and Phaeton have an entirely new service program, sales program and quality control program and will be restricted to better dealers (where VWoA can get away with it). 
So the new products continue to march along, however the restructuring of dealers, restructuring of VWoA and even the restructuring of VWAG are lagging behind and going to take longer to correct. The German manufacturers in general have never been known for stellar reliability other than Mercedes which has trailed off substantially the last 10 years. The Japanese are still the kings of bullet-proof reliability and build car-like appliances better than anyone. For MOST people out there, that is a product they belong in as a car is merely a means to get from point A to point B with the expectation that it never breaks. German cars on the other hand are quirky, at times troublesome and arrogant as well. VW *has* made some tremendous progress in the last 10 years, but still has big parts that need to catch up. They know this, believe me, we tell them all the time. We point out issues to them all the time. We help people on these boards all the time and we call them up and politely ask, "what the hell..." more often than you can believe.
We want to see Volkswagen succeed in turning themselves around. We don't actually want to see VW become too successful to be honest because the product will lose something in its uniqueness and character. We continue to hope and watch Volkswagen in everything it is trying to do and cheer them on at certain times and boo at them during others. It has been an interesting story so far and another chapter is about to begin.
- jamie


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Jamie, thanks for the great post.
One of the problems, perhaps, is that their marketing has been too successful. It has brought them enormous market share growth and sales growth in the past three years, and now they have themselves in a box.
They have attracted a ton of first-time buyers and problems like the coil pack issue (and the company's pathetic handling of it from the corporate end) are likely to put a huge hole in their sales in 2003-2004. The Web is a blessing and a curse. And right now, car review sites and message boards are loaded with angry posts from irate customers who would have been much better served had VWoA done what Japanese makers have done for years: Get ahead of the issue with a pre-recall letter to customers explaining the situation and the company's efforts to rectify the situation.
So now, VW is looking at another lousy reliability review from Consumer Reports, bad-mouthing of the company and its vehicles all over the Web (where 70% of U.S. new car buyers now begin their search process) from disgruntled buyers (many of them, first-time VW buyers and former Honda and Toyota owners), and a hit to sales that could once again make them an unattractive partner for dealerships.
And the cycle you describe from the early 1990s starts all over again.
But it didin't have to be this way. A few posters to Vortex have posted pre-recall letters from Honda, Nissan and Subaru. Basically, the letters state that "we have a problem, we're making parts, and in two months, we'll be sending you a letter to come in and have those parts replaced."
And in VW's case, the letter could have been even more positive because the company could have added, "In the event this failure occurs with your vehicle, trust that we will make every effort to get you back n the road as quickly as possible and we will be providing free loaner cars during the time your car is disabled due to this problem."
Instead, they hang their dealers out to dry and say nothing.
It will be interesting to what happens to sales in 2003-2004.


[Modified by Last VW, 5:31 AM 1-25-2003]


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Last VW)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Jamie, thanks for the great post.
One of the problems, perhaps, is that their marketing has been too successful. It has brought them enormous market share growth and sales growth in the past three years, and now they have themselves in a box.
They have attracted a ton of first-time buyers and problems like the coil pack issue (and the company's pathetic handling of it from the corporate end) are likely to put a huge hole in their sales in 2003-2004. The Web is a blessing and a curse. And right now, car review sites and message boards are loaded with angry posts from irate customers who would have been much better served had VWoA done what Japanese makers have done for years: Get ahead of the issue with a pre-recall letter to customers explaining the situation and the company's efforts to rectify the situation.
So now, VW is looking at another lousy reliability review from Consumer Reports, bad-mouthing of the company and its vehicles all over the Web (where 70% of U.S. new car buyers now begin their search process) from disgruntled buyers (many of them, first-time VW buyers and former Honda and Toyota owners), and a hit to sales that could once again make them an unattractive partner for dealerships.
And the cycle you describe from the early 1990s starts all over again.
But it didin't have to be this way. A few posters to Vortex have posted pre-recall letters from Honda, Nissan and Subaru. Basically, the letters state that "we have a problem, we're making parts, and in two months, we'll be sending you a letter to come in and have those parts replaced."
And in VW's case, the letter could have been even more positive because the company could have added, "In the event this failure occurs with your vehicle, trust that we will make every effort to get you back n the road as quickly as possible and we will be providing free loaner cars during the time your car is disabled due to this problem."
Instead, they hang their dealers out to dry and say nothing.
It will be interesting to what happens to sales in 2003-2004.

[Modified by Last VW, 5:31 AM 1-25-2003][HR][/HR]​I'll be honest and say I think that your post is a bit dramatic and judging from your user name I'm figuring you're not happy with your VW.
Like you pointed out the Internet is a blessing and a curse. However, the Internet lets people start to compare notes and track a problem nearly as fast as VW can. This is something that never happened in the past where only word of mouth or a loose lipped dealer might leak that there have been multiple problems. I outlined why these things take so long to track down and fix elsewhere in these forums. BMW has had a similar issue with their M3 model and engines suddenly throwing a connecting rod. Like VW this problem was tracked on the Internet for quite a while before BMW finally publicly was able to make a definative statement to owners (in fact it took BMW more than a year to deal with it). I predict VW will follow suit and get notice out to owners fairly soon. I also don't think this single issue (nor the window regulators which VW extended the warranty on) is going to bring down Volkswagen in America.
That said it is readily apparent that VW has issues with suppliers and the failure rate of individual components being supplied. Whether this is because of cost cutting or poor design and engineering of components or quality control is irrelevant - at the core VW needs to fix this problem so it doesn't happen in the future. The problem with the coilpacks required re-tooling at the supplier factory after a lengthly investigation into the cause of the problem and how to fix it. Hopefully VW learned something from yet another component failure and also that they, like everyone else, will really need to get a PR message out to owners ASAP which is really hard when you don't know what the problem is yet, how it is going to be fixed, how soon it will be fixed, how many are affected and what to do when you mail out letters and all those people start calling dealers wanting to know what to do and where to get parts you don't have.
- jamie


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Well, Jamie, we will disagree. My post wasn't dramatic. It was/is realistic.
Here's an example from your own boards where Honda issued a pre-recall letter to owners:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?&id=575535&postid=6034605#6034605
Here's a paragraph from Honda's pre-recall letter to customers:
"Owners will be notified by mail when parts are available for their model. Because of the large number of vehicles involved, it may take several months to make the replacement parts available for all vehicles. Mailings will begin in June and should be completed within the next few months."
Why is it so hard for Volkswagen to do the same?
And Vortex members have posted at least two other instances of pre-recall letters from manufacturers.
Being proactive on problems is not a new idea in the automotive world. But, apparently, that kind of "customer-focused" thinking has yet to reach the folks at VWoA or world headquarters in Germany.
Will this be my last VW (as my name implies)? Perhaps. I don't like a company that doesn't stand behind its product, particularly when that product is as expensive as an automobile. Love the car, don't care for the company.
I suspect many other owners will react the same way.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Last VW)*

I won't argue that Volkswagen may need to be a little more proactive, however I have first-hand knowledge on the Honda ignition failures as my wife had a car that was affected. From the time that we had the first failure, it was almost a year and a half before Honda sent this letter out. So I wouldn't exactly point to Honda as a paragon of being "proactive". They are like any other manufacturer that has to go through the same process as everyone else to determine if there is a widespread problem, what the problem is, what the correct fix for it is, how long the fix will take to implement, when supply issues will be resolved, etc. Albeit Honda has these problems far less than VW does.
My point is that these issues take time to track properly, find a correct fix for and decide how to handle. Volkswagen will address this issue with owners.
-jamie


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Agreed, Jamie. But this situation may require them to act sooner rather than later. Did you read the Boston Globe story today? 
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/0...or_failing_ignition_coils_in_Audis_VWs+.shtml
Right now, VW is only responding to this situation publicly when a reporter calls. The Boston Globe story today is not good. It presents VW in a very unflattering light.
This fiasco has all the makings of a Harvard Business School case study... How NOT to handle a product defect.
Time is not on VW's side on this one. They need to get proactive on this NOW if they want salvage their reputation in the U.S.
That's precisely why I have stated that the company needs new leadership in the U.S. They have worked too hard the last three years to come back from being left for dead in the U.S. market to throw it all away with a head-in-the-sand response to what is a very serious problem.
They should state clearly and unequivocally right now that they WILL recall ALL of these parts when they have adequate inventory. It is the only way for them to regain customer trust and get ahead of this issue.


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Jamie, this is why VWoA needs to act NOW:
http://www.carreview.com/PRD_299_1531crx.aspx
And there are other review sites like this all over the web. VW is getting a huge black eye on this and it all goes back to corporate's botched handling of this issue.
Tell them to get their act together... in a hurry.
Thanks for any influence you can exert.


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

After thinking about this for a looonng while I would like to add my thoughts.
VW has a huge problem...and I don't know if they can do anything about it. I am referring to the dealership network. 
I have always understood that VW0A (along with every other manufacturer) does not own dealerships and I now also understand how VW's franchise agreement works. I spent a couple hours...and a couple of beers...the other night with the general manager for a VW/Acura dealership and some of the things he said were really eye opening. But the most unbelievable thing was this:
VWoA had to sell there soul to even the most worthless dealer out there just to keep them selling product in the mid 90's.
Keeping this in mind I can now understand why VWoA has such little control over there "VW certified sales and repair facilities"...THEY CANNOT FIRE THEM! Pretty much no matter what the dealers do VWoA cannot do what you or I would do to a terrible employee and fire them.
Acura on the other hand has all sorts of goals that dealerships have to meet...otherwise Honda/Acura can come in and pull the plug pretty much anytime they want!
This pretty much explains why even VWoA told me to sue there dealership when I had a problem with one of them last year and why why some dealerships are so good (Radley http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , Stohlman, COngressional) and some are SSSOOOOO BAD(If you really need to know PM me).
Where this becomes a problem is on the brand new cars that have grown amazingly complex. Many independant shops won't work on brand new cars as the manufacturers are getting stingy about releasing tech manuals and diagnostic information to anyone but there "VW certified repair facility". 
This leaves us VW owners in a really big bind as we are forced to use a dealer network that is very much not up to snuff...and unless some VW lawyer can figure out how to pull a very large rabbit out of his hat and get these franchise agreements more easily/successfully voided things are not going to get any better.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (BryanH)*

There are some big problems with this whole coilpack thing in regards to just sending out letters rightaway.
When you don't know exactly what the problem is, what the fix is, how long that fix will take do you go ahead and mail letters to ALL owners saying they *may* have a problem, that you don't know what it is, and that you don't know how long it will take to fix, but we are working on it? Now you have not only the people with problems upset, but you have ALL owners upset and calling dealers and VWoA looking for answers they don't have.
So do you wait for your engineers to track down what the problem is? This is not as simple as "just a bad coilpack". There are conditions that failure happens in (cold weather) and under certain starting conditions in the spark programming as well. It turns out that the fix on the component side required retooling - this means a MAJOR investment and major time. VW is committed to making that investment and has pushed the supplier to work 24 hours a day to solve it. However it is also looking like adjustments to the cold-start programming of the engine ECU may also be part of this fix from what we have heard. This too requires not only more time, but some serious testing to make sure that this "fix" is an actual fix and won't require the customer to come back. Changes in ECU programing can affect EPA certification as well. So you can see this is not an easy situation, nor is it necessarily just limited to the coilpacks.
This started becoming a widespread problem here on Vortex around October of this year. So far it has taken VW 3-4 months of work to get to the bottom of this and get a solution that works in place - with the Holidays thrown in there for good measure as well.
As I stated above I believe based on conversations with VWoA about this whole issue that they are preparing to do something publicly to owners to address this whole thing. They won't tell me that directly and are cagey about it for obvious reasons. However I have personally exchanged over a dozen emails on this topic with VWoA corporate people and have had at least six phones calls about it as well. I know they are going nuts over there trying to get it dealt with ASAP, so I'm not sure what else I can do at this point. They have our threads, they obviously know about the press reports as they are quoted in them and I'm quite certain they don't want any more bad publicity over this either.
On the dealership issue... There are some good dealers out there now, the problem is finding them or hoping a good one is nearby. VWoA has plans to more than double the dealer network over the next five years and they have an extensive waiting list of people trying to get one. Those people include owners of existing Lexus, Mercedes and other premium brands that know how to run a dealership right. Any new dealers have to be built and run by all the new standards and guidelines and have to be stand-alone Volkswagen-only dealers. This is a slow process, but one that I think they will get to the bottom of and fix. Dr. Pischetsrieder that recently took over from Dr. Piech has said that the three biggest priorities in America for VW are: 
1. Fixing the dealer network
2. Fixing the quality control issues
3. Giving America the product it specifically need to succeed instead of forcing the German product on us.
We'll see what happens. These people aren't stupid. Volkswagen is a big company and moves a little slower than some, but I think they will get most of thier problems solved.
-jamie


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Jamie, I strongly suggest you make this a "sticky" thread, or even turn your replies here into a front-page story. I think a *lot* of people here on Vortex need to read what you wrote, especially on the Golf-IV/Jetta-IV forum.
This is my first VW, so your brief history of VW(oA) was a real eye-opener. While I was aware of VW's problems in the last decade, I never fully appreciated the comeback from those dark days until now. Thank you







I guess VW's (and Audi's, for that matter) resurgence is nothing short of miraculous. I've voiced my share of complaints here, but that doesn't mean I won't give VW another chance. However, that chance hinges upon VWoA making good on their promises for a "better tomorrow." They have a long way to go to improve the product, the service, and the corporate support.
You've pointed out the sweeping improvements in product, and the need for those changes to reach maturity in the production cycle. (As an engineer, I'm quite familiar with the manufacturing learning curve.) As the problems I've experienced are (though somewhat excessive) generally minor, I can give VW the benefit of the present doubt. Besides, I bought my VW knowing full well that they're not road-going appliances, a la Honda and Toyota








BTW, you make an excellent point regarding so-called "pre-recall" communications. I reluctantly agree that such a letter should wait until a solution is proven and ready to be released. Given that, VWoA (and AoA) needs to put this spin on the bad press they've recently received.
On the issue of service, I agree that VWoA's hands are pretty tied by US laws that protect dealerships. (That $14M AoA lawsuit is unbelievable!) But so are every other manufacturer's! So how can brands like Lexus and Mercedes delivery consistently good customer service? How can their corporate structures enforce high standards under the same US laws as VWoA?







Granted, it sounds like VWoA is working hard to raise dealership standards - they have to, if they really want to sell Passat W8s, Touaregs, and Phaetons. The concept of loans/grants to improve dealerships blows my mind!
One thing you didn't touch on, however, is VWoA's customer care. Why are they so slow and ineffectual regarding customer calls? Why are promises to call back often forgotten? Also, it's obvious VW sees the need to go beyond the enthusiast market and take a more mass-market approach. (If sales didn't dictate this, Porsche would never have built and SUV!). But they need to keep their enthusiasts in mind, too. I don't just mean selling to enthusiasts (which they've started doing: 337, R32...), I mean supporting them as well; after all, they're the ones who'll stick by VW no matter what. So VWoA shouldn't hunt them down for modifying their cars and looking for any excuse to deny warranty service. It's one thing to call the powertrain warranty into question in the presence of, say, an aftermarket chip. It's quite another to call that same question for something totally unrelated, like a Euro OEM headlight switch. (That's less of an exaggeration than you realize







).
Bottom line: VW's come a long way in a short time, and that's beyond commendable. But they have a ways to go to be a player in their intended market... and I'll patientlly wait for them to make it happen. But, my patience is not limitless. I have grown tired of VWoA's typical response to technical and service problems:










[Modified by Helicon Twist, 3:36 PM 1-27-2003]


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Jamie, while I agree with much of what you have written, this is a unique situation that absolutely demands immediate action/response from VWoA.
They are about to get publicly slaughtered on this one. The Boston Globe article yesterday states:
_The problem, and it is epidemic, is that the ignition coils in the vehicles are failing, leaving drivers to sputter off the road under greatly reduced power. Volkswagen and Audi acknowledge that every coil on every cylinder in these cars is susceptible to failure._
You can try and explain away the engineering and research component of this issue, but the reality of the marketplace is fast outpacing the company's actions.
In addition, while the early reports on your forum started hot and heavy in October, there were reports made to NHTSA on this problem as far back as July. NHTSA notifies manufacturers of these complaints. So VWoA has known about this defect for six or seven months. Yet, they still have not felt the need to inform owners that they are aware of the problem.
At this point, the negative press, web reports and word-of-mouth far outweigh the issue of alarming those who have yet to experience the failure. That's a "head-in-the-sand" approach that will exacerbate this situation. The article states that the problem is "epidemic" and that VW aknowledges that "every coil on every cylinder in these cars is susceptible to failure." 
Add to that the company spokesman suggesting in print (for the second time) that VWoA doesn't consider it a recall issue because it is not a safety concern, and VWoA seems to be doing their very best to anger their customers. Taking the temperature on a few of the coil threads on Vortex and AudiWorld shows that there is a great deal of anger at these denials by the company.
I do hope the company reads these boards. Because while they may be able to logically explain their reasons for not issuing a simple letter that states unequivocally that:
A) there is a problem,
B) they are working on a solution and will recall the parts when they have adequate inventory of replacement parts (perhaps three months),
C) they will supply a rental car and get drivers back on the road as quickly as possible.
The only reason NOT to do that at this point is if they believe that the "J" coils will fail, too.
Is that the case?


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Last VW)*

The thing is, this isn't the first time VW has botched such situations. 
Remember the MKIV window regulator fiasco? How long did it take VW to fix that? 2+ years and 3 designs? How about the VR6 coilpacks? They've been failing since the MKIII, albeit at a lower rate (I got 40,000 miles out of mine, but since the engine didn't throw a code, VWOA wouldn't pay for it). They're still failing and VW is doing what about, exactly? Nada.
How about the rear brakes on the MKIV that wear out before the fronts, typically after a caliper freezes? Replaced mine after 30,000 miles -- the independent mechanic who did it won't use the VW stock rear discs, because they'd just wear out again, he knows because he's been down that road before many times. How about 2nd gear grind on the 5 speed? VW has known about that particular problem for years and their response is what? "Unable to duplicate." How about the rear shock top mounts on Golf IVs? Better have that VIN handy when you order the new one because they've got several different variations, just within the 2000 year I believe. How about the starter motors that fail prematurely? Mine made it to 40,000 miles.
VW has really stepped in it this time with the 1.8T coil packs. There should be heads rolling in VWOA and VWAG. I'm talking people fired.
I'm tired of VW selling an under-engineered product and then stonewalling the customer when it breaks.
Jamie, I understand how VWOA got into the trouble that it is in with the dealer body. But the unfortunate fact is that, as a consumer, I don't really care. I don't care how they got here. That's not my problem. It's water under the bridge. It's important as an automobile industry history lesson, but that's it.
What I care about is 1) does my car break? 2) Can I get a decent loaner car when mine is in for service? 3) Can I get a loaner car *AT THE DEALER* or do I have to wait for Enterprise to pick me up, drive me to their place, stand in line, and then be 2 hours late to work, having gotten their in a Ford Escort that smells of cigarette smoke? 4) Can they fix it the first time? 5) If they diagnose it correctly (yes, I know, I'm dreaming here), do they have the parts?
I could overlook some mechanical failures if the dealer could repair the problem the first time. But they can't, even if they had the parts, which they don't. The net result is that, while I like the car, my ownership experience has been bad and is getting worse. I have little faith in VW now and would no longer recommend one to someone. 
Regarding their fancy new "Marketplace Initiative", having the dealers spend money on shiney new showrooms is just *putting lipstick on a pig*. I won't feel any better sitting in a fancy showroom waiting for my smelly Enterprise Rentacar when I'm back for the 7th time trying to get a problem fixed. The shiney showroom won't make me feel any better when I have to send VW a lemon law notice to get them to fix my car. And then have to get it fixed again at my own expense 20,000 miles later.
*Take that same money and spend it on better techs, service writers, and parts inventory.*
quote:[HR][/HR]I know I'm not the only one who sees another Passat W8 fiasco as VW tries to sell $40,000 Touraegs and $70,000 Phaetons through a system that can't even satisfy its $15,000 Golf customers[HR][/HR]​Exactly. How long is a Lexus customer gonna put up with the typical VW dealer experience?


[Modified by nedzel, 2:22 PM 1-27-2003]


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Great picture. Is that the CEO?


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## CarLuvrSD (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

In my opinion VWOA has always suffered from the same service shortcomings. It isn't new or recent. What's new and recent is Volkswagen is selling 5 times more cars in America than they used to.
My Vanagon experience in 1983-84 is a good example. I ordered one of the first Vanagon Wasserboxers. I was very enthusiastic about it's arival and had to wait on a list to obtain one of the first ones to arrive in the US. Because I drove it a lot I was also one of the first customers to have problems with leaking heads. VW refused to fix it. It seems the waranty expired at 12k miles and mine had 12,700 miles on it by the time the real damage had been done. I had been taking it in to them to find out why the little red light in the temperature gauge was blinking. They bled it for me under waranty. Two days after having it bled by them the light again began blinking. Having been told by them several times now that the problem was mearely a little air in the coolant I let it go for a couple of days and had it lose all its water on the freeway one day. We had the pristinely maintained vehicle towed into University Porsche and Audi in Seattle and in a few days they told me that it needed to have new heads installed because one must have a crack in it. I apealed to VW to cover it under waranty since I was only a few hundred miles out of it and they refused. I wrote them and told them the whole story about the problem with the little blinking light and coolant loss problems they had worked on for me under waranty.
The answer I got back blamed me for continuing to drive it with a warning light on. No amount of explaining or pleading would change their minds. They knew that I had been told that the light "just means the cooling system needs to be bled and was not an emergency" by the technician but they stuck to their position that it was my fault the heads had cracked.
By this time University Porsche and Audi was chargin me a storage charge and refused to release the van until it and the bill for diagnoses were paid in full. Well this was several hundred dollars and I could not pay it right now. I tried to explain to them that I needed the car to get back and forth to work and I could pay them part if they would please release it. They refused. So one day, this was like one month+ after the Vanagon had been towed in to them. I rode the bus over their and "stole" my own car back. You see I had had to make 2 car payments and renew my insurance for a car I was being deprived use of by a corrupt dealer.
After several months of getting nasty letters from them, being contacted by the Seattle police and told I was forbiden to ever step foot on their property again, (you see they had called the Police on me to report that I was stealing from them.) University Porsche and Audi sued me for the bill. As our small claims court date neared I read in a car magazine that some of the first owners of the Wasserboxer had been having problems exactly like mine, and that they had received hundreds of consumer complaints because of it. I brought this to VW and University P&A's attention, but they were to arrogant to even listen to me. I lost the small claims case and had to pay the bill.
I continued to drive the van only when I had to as I saved the money to get it fixed. I had been quoted $3400 by Univ. P&A and $2800 by Bellevue Volkswagen, and that was very hard for me to bear. I was only 19 and not made of money. Eventually, to avoid a class action lawsuit VW began paying to fix all Vanagons suffering from the problem. I again called them on the phone to request repairs and was declined. This time because the van now had 18k miles on it and had failed from "owners abuse".
I still have a scar on my right wrist from a scald caused by the exhaust gasses inside the coolant system exploding on me when air entered the system when I loosened the cap. 
Then one day, after I had been driving the van for almost 2 years stopping to top up the coolant every few miles, I went up to Vancouver BC to visit my dad. His next door neighbor was a VW mechanic and came over to talk to me when he saw me adding water. He told me "this happens all the time to these wasserboxers and that he has repaired many of them. I then told them my nighmarish story. He offered to fix it for me for for $800 Cndn, or $1800ish. (not positive anymore.) I then borrowed my dads Fiat and returned to Bellevue. In a day or two I received a call from the mechanic, expecting the worst. It was not only fixed already, but the heads weren't cracked at all. So I had now been driving the car for 2 years and 12k miles with an overheating problem, but I had been so concientious about it that my heads had neither warped or cracked. He did much more than he had to and when I went back to pick it up it had a brand new exspansion tank, all the rust stains had been cleaned off the engine and headliner and his son had washed and waxed it for me. And they charged me less than the quote!








Why won't VW offer the same kind of service to their loyal customers? It's a very negative attitude and hurts them imensely. It's rooted in arrogance and selfishness. 
The problem returned in about 20k miles. I went right back up to this same man again even though he lived in another country and 140 miles from me. This time we did brand new heads. I drove it afew thousand miles longer and then decided to sell it before it started leaking again.
It still looked brand new, even though it had 50k miles on it.


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## CarLuvrSD (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (CarLuvrSD)*

Almost forgot. My point was that VWofA's service has always been crap, but the competition has continually improved.
They still run the company as if they were a small upstart, with atitudes ingrained while they were still a small upstart. VW of America was once in the same position in the North American market as Hyundai and Kia occupy now. Their reputation sucked until the 1970's when American cars were so crappy, it was only then that their good qualities became apparent. If not for the cuteness of the Beetle they would have gone the same way as Fiat. Peugeot, Alfa Romeo, Citroen, Renault etc. have. 
Unfortunately their service departments have the same old metal chairs and burnt coffee they had 30 years ago too. And as I hear they're still up to the same old tricks of screwing their customers for problems caused by VW.
I still like VW's, but I will never again be the first one (Guineapig) to try out their new technologies.
The recent upsurge in sales can't be sustained unless service improves. This is because the new customers are coming from Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Nissan etc. and they are used to better customer support.


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (CarLuvrSD)*

Well, I'm not sure if Honda or Toyota dealers have that good a reputation either. However, their upscale brands (Acura and Lexus) do have a good reputation for dealer quality.
On the other hand, Toyota dealers may be tolerable if one doesn't have to visit them after buying the vehicle.


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (tjl)*

Agreed. Dealers are all over the map, regardless of the plate. The issue here is how the corporate end of the company stands behind their product. VW apparently doesn't have a good history in this regard.
That will cost them, particularly if, as pointed out by CarLuvr, many new buyers switched over from Honda, Toyota, etc. Whether the dealers sucked or not, the companies stood behind their cars and were proactive on most major defect issues.
A lot of these first-time VW buyers will be one-time VW buyers for that reason.
Too bad. The company needs new leadership.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Last VW)*

Excuse me for barging into the discussion, but can someone direct me to a website where people who _like_ VWs congregate?
Thanx in advance, muchly.


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwlarry)*

Hi Lar,
It's not a matter of "liking."
I (and I suspect the others) would like to see VW succeed. Their growth the past three years has been phenomenal. But it is no fun to watch the corporate folks sabotage themselves at every turn.
The company will give up a lot of what they have gained in the past few years if they don't figure out (quickly) how to treat their customers beter, particularly in this highly competitive marketplace.


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwlarry)*

I really resent that statement...
I am on my fourth watercooled VW and absolutely love these things. I just really am not taking a liking to the MKIV platform anymore...and its got absolutely nothing to do with the car because the car is a blast to drive! The problem is the car is SO complex and the techs SO undertrained that when stuff breaks, AS IT IS GOING TO DO ON ANY CAR, the "VW certified repair centers" don't seem to be able to repair the problem. With my last GTI they actually made the problem much worse than it started out and even the mighty Vortex couldn't get VWoA to help me. VWoA actually recommended I sue the dealer.
I am sure most of the MKIV owners that bother to come here on a regular basis feel the same way I do...we love the cars but how about a little support from the manufacturer! I was absolutely blessed to happen upon Karen Radley Acura/VW in Woodbridge VA and not have to deal with Farrish (my wife calls them faggish) anymore. This alone has given me some confidence in driving my car because VWoA hasn't.
As I have said before...if I wouldn't lose my tail on the trade in I would go back to a Scirocco and never set foot in a dealership again. I may buy a mid-late 80's GTI or Scirocco anyway....


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (BryanH)*

Nedzel,
In much the same way you list the issues from the past that VW did not honor and fix under warranty I could go into depth with Honda - faulty dealer installed air conditioning units that had stress fractures in the freon tubing causing perpetual leaks - owners knew about these for years, yet Honda never fixed the problem. Timing belts that Honda recommended be replaced at 65,000 miles yet were notorious for letting go before that mileage, yet Honda wouldn't replace them or fix the engine out of warranty either. We had enough Honda's (and I only use that company as one example) to know that there were just certain parts that were notorious for breaking that Honda would not recognize. This is not new in the automotive industry and those that have been around long enough and owned enough cars from enough different companies have known this for years. Do two wrongs make it right? Absolutely not... but VW is far from alone in this type of fault.
As far as the rest of it, and particular the coilpacks... My guess is that VW is NOT going to recall these items (I could be wrong though as I have NO facts to base this statement on) but will likely extend the warranty on the coilpacks just like the window regulators.
Lastly you DO have a recourse. Don't ever buy another Volkswagen - it is that simple. You can't send a clearer message than that to the manufacturer. Volkswagen has been forced into a race against time. Right now for every 1 person leaving the VW brand there are 5 more coming in. VW has to hedge that they can maintain that positive flow of customers long enough to fix all the crap that is wrong with the dealer network and the products themselves. They have done a lot so far but still have far more to accomplish. It isn't just "putting lipstick on a pig" but far more reaching behind the scenes in service, parts, diagnostics, computer systems, all-new parts systems, all-new customer tracking systems, massive changes in corporate structure, and on and on and on...
This of course takes time, something that VW is fighting against, but I do think in the end this too shall pass and VW will survive without the sky falling. They aren't the first manufacturer to have problems and they certainly won't be the last.
-jamie


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Excuse me for barging into the discussion, but can someone direct me to a website where people who like VWs congregate?[HR][/HR]​VWLarry. I like my car. When it isn't broken and when I'm not fighting with VW to get it fixed. That's what takes the joy out of it.


[Modified by nedzel, 5:46 AM 1-28-2003]


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Jamie: My experience with Acura was better than yours with Honda. I sold my '87 Integra after 13 years and 130,000 miles. It was on its second clutch. The A/C was weak, but the only big problem that I had with it was after I ran over a critter (squirrel? racoon?) one night and took out the compressor. I changed the timing belt at 70k and it was due for another belt change. Other than routine maintenance (brakes a couple times, exhaust once), the only things that broke were the turn signal assembly (once), the heater fan (once), and the radiator needed to be replaced. While I didn't get a loaner car from the dealer, I could rent a car from the dealer, right there at the lot and be on my way to work in 5 minutes.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwlarry)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Excuse me for barging into the discussion, but can someone direct me to a website where people who _like_ VWs congregate?[HR][/HR]​Despite their flaws, we like VWs just fine. But VWoA and its dealerships make that harder and harder to do







We want to change that for the better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rgGolf4 (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (nedzel)*

I was struggling with this issue a couple months ago. I had a 2000 VW Golf 2.0. I had it for two years and my warranty, of course, ran out. In that time, my warranty saved me from O2 sensors, window regs (2), coolant temp sensor, and a faulty MAF. I also had a dealer that, although decent in warranty service, would of failed me for inspection because of my mods (he said it to my face). What mods did I have? A set of Borbet wheels and a Magnaflow exhaust. 
This type of persecution is ridiculous. I'm sure VW knows of the enthusiast market as they are well aware of the Vortex. Why then, do dealers hold our feet to the flame for warranty work on lightly modded cars. I can go into a Honda dealer and buy an Injen intake, a DC sports exhaust, and full suspensions. The dealer will even install these items and then service the car for the rest of the warranty. Why is VW alienating some if its most loyal customers?
Its funny because one of the things the Honda salesman did was show me the parts department. To my surprise I see no OEM parts in the display cases, but DC sports, Skunk2, and various performance brands. I thought to myself, wow I wish my VW dealer did that.
I am someone who was a first time VW buyer. I never owned a VW before, but was intrigued by their new styles and sense of uniqueness. My previous 1988 Honda Accord was reliable as ever, but was in a bad accident. I was happy with the VW for two years until my warranty ran out and things started breaking, engine misfires, and just overall dissapointment in my two year old car. So, I went back to Honda and got a great deal on a new Si, even with me owing money on the Golf.


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Hi Jamie,
I have had three Hondas and and a Toyota. I love driving the VW far more than any of them. But while you may have had problems with your wife's Honda, my experience with all four cars was excellent. The dealers sucked, but the cars were great and, from the corporate side, the companies handled problems much better than VW.
This issue affects drivability. It is critical. And it is particularly galling to continue to hear that VW is resisting a recall on this part. There are now more than 300 complaints filed on the NHTSA website about this issue. That is up from less than 200 just a week-and-half ago.
The irritiating thing about all this is that VW corporate won't step up and handle this problem.
I have a feeling that bad publicity, public outcry and, ultimately, the government, will make them change their minds.
The simple fact that this point has to be argued is an indictment of the company and its executives.


[Modified by Last VW, 5:53 PM 1-28-2003]


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Last VW)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Hi Jamie,
I have had three Hondas and and a Toyota. I love driving the VW far more than any of them. But while you may have had problems with your wife's Honda, my experience with all four cars was excellent. The dealers sucked, but the cars were great and, from the corporate side, the companies handled problems much better than VW.
This issue affects drivability. It is critical. And it is particularly galling to continue to hear that VW is resisting a recall on this part. There are now more than 300 complaints filed on the NHTSA website about this issue. That is up from less than 200 just a week-and-half ago.
The irritiating thing about all this is that VW corporate won't step up and handle this problem.
I have a feeling that bad publicity, public outcry and, ultimately, the government, will make them change their minds.
The simple fact that this point has to be argued is an indictment of the company and its executives.

[Modified by Last VW, 5:53 PM 1-28-2003][HR][/HR]​
Since we keep beating the same dead horse over and over and over and over...
I have explained numerous times now why these types of things take time *and* given numerous examples of how other manufacturers have had similar issues and taken a lot longer to provide a solution and/or notify owners. Volkswagen is not sitting around doing nothing, they need to make sure before they commit to any letters and/or recalls that they actually have the problem sorted out and have a solution for customers.
Is this taking longer than all of us including VW would like? Sure. Does VW know they have a problem? You bet. Are they working as fast as they can to solve it? Yes. Do they really want more bad publicity? No.
To fix this required a new redesign and retooling - ask an engineer how long something like this takes.
I realize that all the above is not your problem as a customer and that is fine. I'm just offering an explaination into why this problem is not a simple fix and why there hasn't been something official from VWoA yet.
Anyway, I guess we can agree that time is not on VW's side here.








-jamie


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

I understand the horse is dead....now its really dead and starting to stink!
But I would also like to get back to the issue of the crappy dealerships...If other dealers want to represent VW then what the hold up? I can't tell you when the last time it was a new VW dealer opened up in the DC area! But Subaru, Acura, Toyota, Ford, Dodge/Chrysler, Mitsubishi have all had new dealerships in the last couple (2-3) years.
Is there some sort of wierd territory clause?


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## VWJerk (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (BryanH)*

I think VW is doing a better job than they did in the early 90's; there is always room for improvement though. If you don't like the car or the dealership, let the company know. If their feedback stinks, don't buy from them...that's my 2-cents anyways.
Jamie, all of your info has been factual and informative, thanks; I have a terrible headache now.
Mr. Hanky says......"Can't we all just drive our cars & get along."


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## charlier (Mar 9, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Jamie,
First of all, thanks for you insight into the difficulties facing VWoA and VWAG.
Personally I feel there are a few things VWoA could and should do that could turn this situation around. First, COMMUNICATE with the customers. A simple letter telling the customers that VWoA knows there is a problem with the Coil packs and is working closely and very hard with the manufacturer on a solution to the problem as quickly as possible. Second, once there is enough supply of the redesigned coil packs just REPLACE ALL the defective coil packs.
Extending the warranty on the coil packs is the bean counters cowardly way out, plain and simple. Extening the warranty is VWoA's way of playing the odds to save $$$$ while risking the customer getting stranded by VWoA's problem.
You said in a previous post that VW is getting 5 new customers for each one it loses. Granted, that was probably an example and not a fact but here is another example. If each of the people who experience a coil pack failure tell 20 of their friends and those friends tell some of their friends how long do you think the 5 new customers to one lost customer ratio will continue? If only 50,000 customer experience a coil pack failure and they tell 20 friends that is 1 Million people whose next auto purchase may not be a VW.
No amount of VW advertising (even during the Super Bowl) will be able to turn that around.
It has been said that many auto manufacturers have experienced the same problems as VW. VW has always prided itself in being different when it comes to their cars. Why should VW be the same as other auto manufacturers when it comes to how they deal with their problems and their customers? Why shouldn't VW hold itself to a higher standard? Why doesn't VW take the high road and put the customer, their safety and piece of mind first?


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## Scirocco (Dec 20, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

This car got slammed on carreview.com. Seems that the majority of people hate them. I really like VW's and Audi's. My wife wants a Silver Jetta and I have been eyeing an A4. I have been looking at Honda's and Toyota's right now since she will get the new car first. I'm a little hesitant to buy a car for her to drive around LA with my kid in it wondering which freeway shes gonna break down on. You understand if you've been on an LA freeway how unforgiving it is. I have no need for a car thats gonna spend all its time in the shop while I take it in the rear on car rentals. I had waited until the 4 year warrantys came into effect. Who'd pay for a car for 4-5 years with a warranty that cant cover it. 2 year warranty made me think they had no faith in their products. Another thing you have to now fear is that with so many issues with the car, what will this do to your resale value. VW offers no incentives like Mits and the big guys do. Those incentives get factored into resale. Since VW doesn't, they should retain value. But will all the issues make these cars as worthless as the incentive guys vehicles?


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## mayte (Sep 29, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwlarry)*

My 99 Passat ( owned from new ) is great. The dealers on the other hand suck.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (VWJerk)*

quote:[HR][/HR]If you don't like the car or the dealership, let the company know. If their feedback stinks, don't buy from them... [HR][/HR]​But that's not the enthusiasts' solution







See above... we love the cars to death, despite their flaws, and we want some reciprocation in the form of better dealer and manufacturer support.


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Jamie, thanks, as always, for your reasoned response.
You're right. We're going in circles.
I hope they get it resolved soon.
One question... Have you heard anything from VW on the relaibility of the "J" series replacement coils?
I am wondering if questions about "J" coil reliability would be holding up a communication to customers...


[Modified by Last VW, 4:28 PM 1-29-2003]


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## 130_R (May 24, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

As the population of this website had grown, so had the number ofcomplaints concerning overall quality of VW's and VW dealerships. If looked at based on sheer population numbers the percentage of complaints has not changed much, yet the total number of complaints has increased. So instead of looking at total number of complaints, it is better to look at the percentages of complaints because a percentage is a representation of the whole.
If you take a pessimistic view and only look at the increased number of complaints, then of course you are going to say that VW is doing a bad job.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (130_R)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So instead of looking at total number of complaints, it is better to look at the percentages of complaints because a percentage is a representation of the whole.[HR][/HR]​Except, I don't think that percentage was favorable to VWoA or its dealers to begin with







But I'm not sure, so I started the polls listed in my signature...


[Modified by Helicon Twist, 10:08 AM 1-29-2003]


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I also had a dealer that, although decent in warranty service, would of failed me for inspection because of my mods (he said it to my face). What mods did I have? A set of Borbet wheels and a Magnaflow exhaust.[HR][/HR]​Unfortunately, in this case I don't think the dealer was trying to screw you. It is my understanding in MA that ANY change to the engine/exhaust system is verboten. He's got to fail you in the inspection for the different exhaust. The staties have been all over inspection stations that pass cars that should not have been passed.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (tjl)*

I shouldn't offer this, because factual rebuttal to the myth of Toyota's absolute quality is offensive to most _VWVortex_ members, but, as a service advisor at a large Toyota dealership for approximately 18 months, I experienced, as a frontline employee, the fact that Toyota has its own skeletons a'rattling in its pristine closet. 3-liter V6 Camrys tossing connecting rods out the side of their blocks (which Toyota v. discreetly covered via Goodwill), Camry window motors and regulators that kack with a near-VW regularity (and comparable high replacement cost too), alternators that are JUNK (this is a particularly delightful trait amongst Corollas (...y'know, the world's most reliable car?), Land Cruisers that eat their transfer cases and drive axles with voraciousness, etc etc. 
Toyotas ARE good, even GREAT cars. I won't argue that at all. I happen to like some of their products v. much, and I particularly admire Toyota's history of putting its money where its mouth is _vis a vis_ their massive participation in motorsports. 
But PERFECT? Give me a _break_. Yes, VW is not as good as Toyota in the reliability sweepstakes. But they are NOT the trainwreck that's depicted, ad nauseum, here in the _VWVortex Veil of Tears_. I personally haven't come back to VW, time after time, over the past 26 years, for my personal transportation because their cars STRANDED me, or let me down habitually. I came back because they DID THE JOB, and made me feel good while they were doing it. Every one of you who purchased a new VW, _especially_ the young, _Consumer Reports_-wisened ones, knew from the get-go that VWs are known, far and wide, as cars that DO have niggly faults, rattles, and quality lapses from time to time. Like Jamie has (so patiently) tried to explain, VWoA is (probably v. painfully) aware of field-failures such as the coil-packs, but has not to-date formulated a logical and proper plan to rectify it. I work in the automotive service industry, and believe me, even the SLOPPIEST car manufacturer struggles to come to grips with market-threatening problems such as these. It's just not good business to piss-off customers, eh? If VWoA is slower than the Japanese at curing the problem, then shame of VWoA; lord knows they have never really been known for their speedy reaction times (I've been a VWoA observer for many years). But, to condemn, outright, the product, and the company, in totality, because of a specific component failure is shortsighted and downright mean, IMO. 
I'm sorry if I step on sensitive toes here, but my admiration for VW is on a high level, not because of a recent purchase of one of their new models, but because of an 30+ year accumulation of personal experience with them, which has led me to deeply respect what I view as one of the world's truly ethical and basically _intelligent_ automobile manufacturers. When the rest of the world was making cars that pandered to the public's latest infatuation or fad, Volkswagen stayed true to their philosophy of building cars that _made sense_, even when making sense wasn't the most popular way of doing things (as today). They've _earned_ the respect that old-timers like me give them, IMO. I just don't like to see a great company get trashed.


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## ngoshawk (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

I diligently read the whole thread, including the assorted side threads, and feel compelled to respond.
My wife and I are on vw #5, with SERIOUS consideration of #6 (critter #2 on the way, and '98 Jetta GLX too small).
You do not buy a volkswagen for the reliability alone, or the performance alone. You are buying into an ideal that these cars actually connect you more than your average blob sedan. Yes, vw's do have problems, I even lost a coilpack on my vr6. 
Does this mean that I am willing or ready to sell the car? Absoutely NOT. I have had other problems also. Other than our then two year old being locked in the car (wiring harness) on the shore of Lake Superior 15 miles from nowhere, and VWoA NOT reimbursing me for the problem (51,000 miles on a 50K warranty was VWoA response), I have had nothing but good luck from vw dealer's, and sales people. On this specific case, the dealer in Sault Saint Marie, Ont. sided with me to no avail, and they knew EXACTLY what the problem was as I described it. 
This particular incident brought to my mind that VWoA does know of problems, and is willing to work with the customers, but only after MUCH work by the customer in documenting the issue.
What am I trying to say? I am not sure, but if you are willing to fight for your issues, from what I have read VWoA is more than willing to work with you. If not, they are not different than ANY dealer. You must put in the effort unfortunately before they will work with you.
We are extremely fortunate to have people such as Jamie on this site. I am still a neophite to this and clubb5, but I have learned more about the passion, the energy of vw enthusiasts, and their willingness to stick to this marque than any brand out there, than I could have from MONTHS of research.
This coilpack issue WILL NOT dissuade me from purchasing a new Passat. I am planning on waiting for the diesel Passat, 5spd, but the passion of a vw more than outweigh the headaches that can arise. I lament for all of you that have lost coilpacks, especially with the fairly cold weather we have had, but do not let this dissuade you from a fine overall vehicle. VWoA WILL solve this problem, and my hope is that it will be sooner rather than later.
My personal opinion is that there will be a recall, and replacement of all coilpacks.
Hang in there vw people, the solution will present itself.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Last VW (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Jamie,
Have you heard any comments from VW regarding the "J" coils?
It seems that problems with reliability on the Js could be a primary reason for not proactively contacting customers.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Last VW)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Jamie,
Have you heard any comments from VW regarding the "J" coils?
It seems that problems with reliability on the Js could be a primary reason for not proactively contacting customers.[HR][/HR]​Knowing how VW usually approaches these things, I'm guessing they made corrections and released the J coils, but those obviously aren't perfect. From what I understand a solid fix has been made, but I don't know what label those new coils will have. I'll try and find out though.
-jamie


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (ngoshawk)*

I agree somewhat... I do think there's way too much whining about coil packs, window regs, etc. Too many "we need a recall" and "class-action lawsuit" posts. It's understandable to be pissed, after shelling out lots of hard-earned $$$ for a new car that ends up sitting on the service dept's lot. But you shouldn't get ready to bail on VW because of that alone, becuase it's the same for just about any car ever made. Would you folks feel any better if you bought a Ford Focus?







They're up to what, now, *14* recalls?
*However* (seeking to dodge virtual beer bottles thrown at him), what _is_ disconcerting is VWoA's poor handling of these situations. I agree with Jamie that VWoA can't magically fix a problem before the problem is understood and a solution has been proven. (That's the Engineer in me talking







) However, since they were aware of this problem for some time, I'm inclined to agree with other posts that some communication from VWoA to both its customers and its dealers regarding, e.g. ignition coils, was in order. Something pro-active about VWoA's awareness of the problem, and intentions to reach a solution and contact its customers again when that solution is ready. I suspect customers would be as concerned as they are now, but far less angry about it.
Sadly, VWoA tends to instead bury its head in the sand by blowing off its customers and leaving its dealers on their own. ngoshawk mentioned the work it takes to make VWoA work for you. Let me tell you, that's a _lot_ of work! Sometimes, more than the car (and its flaws) are worth







It's a balance: if the service/support were better, I could easily look past the minor (yet many) problems I've had; if the car were closer to perfection, the poor service/support wouldn't be as much of an issue.
I can't stress enough that I like VW's just fine, and don't wish to leave the marque. But VW needs to better ensure my loyalty with some improvement in the product, and sweeping improvements across the board at VWoA and its dealerships.


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## rgGolf4 (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (ngoshawk)*

quote:[HR][/HR]What am I trying to say? I am not sure, but if you are willing to fight for your issues, from what I have read VWoA is more than willing to work with you. If not, they are not different than ANY dealer. You must put in the effort unfortunately before they will work with you.[HR][/HR]​I don't think that after paying 20k+ on a car, that we should have to fight to get our cars fixed. Especially when the issues are caused by VW.
quote:[HR][/HR]but I have learned more about the passion, the energy of vw enthusiasts, and their willingness to stick to this marque than any brand out there[HR][/HR]​This gets me more than anything. Yes, this was my first VW. I have not been an enthusiast for 30+ years and I won't be in the future. Why are people so loyal to a product that does not give support from the factory or dealers? I will surely get flamed for this but: People here are so blindly loyal to this brand, that they think because they use some nice plastic and colorful dials that these cars are somehow made better. I agree that the interior is nice and all, but, that is not what gets me from point A to B. 
I wish I had a better experience with this brand. My hopes were high for the first 18 months and after that, frustration set in. I guess I'm just not hardcore enough to put up with VW's crap (dealer & corporate).
quote:[HR][/HR]It is my understanding in MA that ANY change to the engine/exhaust system is verboten. He's got to fail you in the inspection for the different exhaust.[HR][/HR]​That just does not make sense. There are no laws restricting me to an OEM exhaust (cat-back anyway). I did pass inspection at an independent shop with my exhaust and wheels.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (rgGolf4)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Why are people so loyal to a product that does not give support from the factory or dealers? I will surely get flamed for this but: People here are so blindly loyal to this brand, that they think because they use some nice plastic and colorful dials that these cars are somehow made better. I agree that the interior is nice and all, but, that is not what gets me from point A to B. [HR][/HR]​This is a site for VW *enthusiasts*. This means we love the brand, which means our VW's are more than just A-B transportation - they're fun-to-mod, fun-to-drive hobbies. Sometimes, that means overlooking quirks and glitches. But I'm not "blindly" loyal - I were, I wouldn't have started this thread!


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## ngoshawk (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Sorry for this, i deleted my other post. I also apologize for not being able to post quotes in my reply (don't know how).
A story will help. Three months into ownership of current Jetta, I gave a ride to fellow coworkers on the same project (I am a wildlife biologist/science teacher), and both stated that this was the niced vw they had ever ridden in.







My head swelled of course. They both then asked if I had had any problems. I answered honestly, and stated yes, but nothing I could not live with. After the awkward silence, they both stated that this was much better than their old bugs, and could live with a few problems because it was a vw. (head swelled again).
Yes, I have had problems with the car, and VWoA, but no more than MOST cars in my mind. Every car has their skeletons, as posted by vwLarry. But, this is no reason to throw the car in the toilet. I am sorry for first time vw owners who do have the problems mentioned elsewhere here, and clubb5. I do not know what we can do to dissuade these people from not selling their car, probably nothing.
I do know that these are problems that vw enthusiasts are willing to put up with, so we do not have a plain jane blob sedan. Our cars actually make us smile, and we can find them in a parking lot a hell of a lot faster than most http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
As MNsnowman stated on a clubb5 thread (again my apologies), VWoA should have been more proactive, and they will lose customers because they were not. BUT, financially right now it makes sense for VWoA NOT to do a recall. He had the actual calculations there to state what vw's break even point was. Right now this may be a business decision unfortunately for those with the coilpack/ICM problems. I am sorry for this, but what manufacturer has NOT gone through this fiasco.
This does not lessen the pain of a brand new car in the service department, but we do have alternatives. This, and sources such as clubb5 are a menas to lessen the pain of these problems, and if it were not for these two sites, I would probably have already settled on a Subaru Legacy GT, or Maszda 6s as a replacement for my Jetta.
My $2.00 worth.


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## Entourage (Apr 30, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (ngoshawk)*

Jamie and the rest of my brothers in arms







,
I love Volkswagen. I have loved them for years, ever since my best friend bought an A3 Golf. I am on my second brand new VW in 3 years. But I will tell you this, I will never and I mean NEVER buy another Volkswagen/Audi again unless VWOA/VAG gets their stuff together.
Volkswagens handiling of our problems is quite frankly, DISGUSTING. I am totally turned off right now. It could be that my 2001 GTI GLX has been in the shop about 30 times in a year, 6 of which were oil changes.
My car is in the shop again as of yesterday. The problem? I have no idea. All I know is the car went into limp mode and as it stands right now the dealership cant even look at my car until next week. I mean this is ridculous. Do you have that many problems with your product that it takes over a week to just look at a car?







Granted I have a loaner car, but its not the point. Its the principal of things.
I have a meeting with a VWOA rep next month regarding my car. I want my warranty to be extended out of good faith to me. My car has been in the shop ever since I bought it. The car was in the shop a week aftr I bought it. 
Instead of designing new cars that no one will buy anyway. Why doesnt VWOA/VAG fix the problems that already exist. As it stands right now consumers do not want to pay $20-30,000 on a Volkswagen. Why would they want to spend even more for a new design? 
I am tired of all the excuses. I a just tired of it. STOP THE EXCUSES AND START FIXING OUR PROBLEMS!



[Modified by JustinVW, 11:43 AM 1-30-2003]


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (JustinVW)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ngoshawk mentioned the work it takes to make VWoA work for you. Let me tell you, that's a lot of work![HR][/HR]​In my case, it took many phone calls to VWOA and a Lemon Law notice letter. That *finally* seemed to get their attention. Of course, the fix only lasted about a year or so. Sigh.
Are Toyota and/or Honda perfect? Of course not. I've owned both.
But I'm not asking for my GTI to be perfect. I've been driving since 1976. I'm well aware that things break, sometimes before they should. I accept that. What I cannot accept is that I can *NEVER* get anything fixed the first time at the dealer.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

*Bump* to keep a good discussion going http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## FumetsuGolf (Aug 30, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

I cannot fathom buying another car from another brand (unless that brand were Audi).
Echoing what others have said before, VWs (to me, anyway) are not just transportation from point A to point B, and THAT is what draws me to VW time and time again. They are truly the only vehicles I've ever driven that are FUN to drive. They have personality.
And even with its problems, I'd rather push my Volkswagen than drive anything else.


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## francismartin (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

We have a 2001 Jetta 2.0L automatic, GLS.
Ford issues 14 recalls--i.e. says they will fix free 14 problems and admits their mistakes, some of which seemed minor. VW issues no recalls--i.e. oil consumption in 2.0L's, window regulators, coil packs-even sending customers out with cars they know will fail, oozing gunk from doors, wonderful MAF's, disappearing rear brake pads, etc. 
Dodged everyone but the rear brake pads. 
Which corporation is more concerned about their customers and their loyalty?
Who is doing better by their customers??????
I am an engineer, it's a well engineered car...sort of, but soemwhat poorly put together with a few really crappy parts, the rest are actually quite good.
Now talk to a cop who does traffic accidents, ask you insurance agent where the Jetta 2.0L stands in terms of rates- not the faster engines, just the old reliable AEG, actually we have an AVH (newer version of AEG). In 0 to 30 and 0 to 60, I think it's slower than the 98 Saturn SL2 we have.
This car is easily 20% heavier than other cars in it's class. Reliability is only one issue, safety is another one. There are others.
So, safe car, lousy corporate support and head in the sand approach to any problem. Even the 2.0L automatic is fun to drive.
Please dump your 00's, 01's, 02's and 03's, next year I'll be buying that used car with low mileage real cheap becaue its' been so maligned and the resale value is real low and I know the problems. Thanks.
By the way, anyone know how to fix the center armrest cheap?.... it's a bushing issue.








Thanks, 
Regards















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Ereinion (Aug 14, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Soap box or not everything you said is DEAD ON.
I have owned,leased,and owned a VW since 1992.Since the first vehicle bought in Victoria,a1990 Jetta GTX 2.L 16v,had to be taken back to the dealer{who shall remain anonymous for legal reasons or perceived legal reasons} no fewer than SIX TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,I have moved up island to the VW dealer in Nanaimo for the last two vehicles I have leased and owned.
I despise the Victoria dealership enough to drive 200 kilometers OUT oF MY WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just taking the driving into account it is a FOUR HOUR trip!The servicing usually takes about an hour or so.
They are a superior operation in EVERY WAY.Not once in four years have I had to argue with the service dept..Problem presented







roblem fixed.
As the Victoria dealer is a franchise type operation,I don't expect them ever to change.From a perspective of blind business,why should they?They get flipping great WODGES of cash and they are the only show in town that sell's all of VAG's products offered in North America.From the standpoint of ethic's,well..................if there is a god,where is the lightning bolt for these guys?
Every category in these forums has a story like or similar to this one.
Can anyone out there do simple arithmatic?ADD IT UP VW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People will not tolerate this kind of CRAP FOREVER!
And if you think that sprucing up your dealerships physically is going to improve your image:FORGET IT.I for one DO NOT BUY IT.
And you plan to sell Phaeton's and Toor-Egg's in places like these?The dealership I go to in Nanaimo is a small local outfit.Low volume,one brand.
Or is it going to be another "filter down" load of garbage from VW?People paying BIG dollars get the "Premium" service and we,people who don't spend Big dollars,get the regular treatment i.e.:just more crap?
Well what's it going to be VWoA and Canada?Care to dance?Will you show us the money for a change?
Or is it just business as usual?


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## rgGolf4 (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (FumetsuGolf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]And even with its problems, I'd rather push my Volkswagen than drive anything else.[HR][/HR]​Maybe I'm the crazy one, but that just makes no sense. Didn't we all buy cars to get from one place to another, even though we all know VW are more fun to drive







. I think the above quote is the reason why VW doesn't do anything half the time. As long as suckers will buy an UNRELIABLE car, why would they try to do anything about it.


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## ngoshawk (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Personally, I would rather DRIVE a VW than push another car!!!















VW seems to be working on the coilpack issue, albeit too late for some customers.
I will stick with vw through thick-n-thin http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Good discussion, keep it up.


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (BryanH)*

I got to actually driving my car last night...now that the roads dried out...and really had a lot of fun...I just dread the next time it breaks as getting it fixed is a nightmare. In light of this and the fact that I would lose my rather large butt trading it in I feel the need to ask this question again....maybe someone can come up with a good answer to it.
quote:[HR][/HR]
But I would also like to get back to the issue of the crappy dealerships...If other dealers want to represent VW then what the hold up? I can't tell you when the last time it was a new VW dealer opened up in the DC area! But Subaru, Acura, Toyota, Ford, Dodge/Chrysler, Mitsubishi have all had new dealerships in the last couple (2-3) years.
Is there some sort of wierd territory clause?[HR][/HR]​Its been said that VWoA has people lining up to open new dealerships so I would like to know if anyone would care to offer any insight?


[Modified by BryanH, 6:20 AM 2-3-2003]


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (francismartin)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Ford issues 14 recalls--i.e. says they will fix free 14 problems and admits their mistakes, some of which seemed minor. VW issues no recalls--i.e. oil consumption in 2.0L's, window regulators, coil packs-even sending customers out with cars they know will fail, oozing gunk from doors, wonderful MAF's, disappearing rear brake pads, etc. 
Dodged everyone but the rear brake pads. 
Which corporation is more concerned about their customers and their loyalty?[HR][/HR]​LOL! That is so narrow-minded. There have been a number of recalls issued for the MKIVs. Just not on the items you mentioned because they are not considered safety issues by VW nor NHTSA. Also, just because Ford has issued a gazillion recalls for the Focus, does not mean that there are a number of other known problems with the Focus that Ford has not taken care of.


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## rgGolf4 (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Hajduk)*

Its odd though, that when window regulators break the dealer will fix the other one as well...as a preventative measure. It makes no sense that they wouldn't do it for the coilpacks.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Based on my admittedly unscientific polls (each with not quite 100 votes), the disposition of the Vortex community seems to be...

VW makes great cars, with some room for improvement, but nothing of major consequence.
"Good" VW dealers exist in sizeable numbers, though it still takes some effort to find one.VWoA customer support is clearly the weak link in the VW ownership experience.

Don't forget to cast your vote http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Jamie, any chance of sharing these results with VWoA, after some more exposure?


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## francismartin (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Hajduk)*

So, me being narrow minded, how many recalls has VW issued on the MKIV's?? I know of the ABS brakes, can't count window regulators nor coilpacks as VW has yet to recall them. Coilpacks have been known to VW for at least 5 months.
Also, I applaud a manufacturer who recalls a product to fix it even if it does consider it a safety defect. At least they fix it at their expense, not mine.
Regards


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

For all of you woth ignition coil problems, finally some good news (albeit a bit late) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://dealer.vw.com/vwpress/fullStoryA.html?release_id=5824


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## SkyPup (Feb 18, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

Here is the REALITY - VW's North American market stinks compared to where the action really is....

Volkswagen Corporation sold 511,000 sedans last year in China, making it the Germany-based firm's second largest market only after Germany, according to information from Volkswagen (China) Investment Co., Ltd.
Meanwhile, the Changchun-based FAW-Volkswagen Automotive Company Ltd. in northeastern China reported record sales of 207,000 units in 2002, up 66.4% from the previous year, with revenue of 30 billion yuan ($3.6 billion). 
The German firm successfully promoted different models for various potential buyers. In 2002, consumers in China bought 35,000 units of Audi A6, 120,000 Jettas and 50,000 Boras. 
The Volkswagen Corporation entered the Chinese market in 1985, has so far set up five joint ventures.


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (SkyPup)*

Wow...who did they pay off in China to get those trade concessions?


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## SkyPup (Feb 18, 1999)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (BryanH)*

If they did 1/2 that business in North America there would HAVE to be major dealer improvements.


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## Helicon Twist (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

I just realized something... VWoA has its issues, but they've been more generous than other manufacturers regarding known defects.
VWoA publicly recognized (after much customer irritation) defects in its window regulators and ignition coils. Ultimately, they extended the warranty on these items, offering free replacement even beyond the original B2B warranty.
How many other manufacturers do this, especially in this price class? I painfully remember one who didn't: General Motors. They had paint issues in the late 80s and early 90s, defective alternators in at least the last decade, and shoddy braking systems in the last several years. *Not once* did GM ever offer to repair these items free of charge *at any time* beyond the original B2B warranty, let laone acknowledge the existence of the defects. For paint, only particiapants in successful class-action lawsuits received anything from GM. The other issues were "caveat emptor."
They same goes for Ford and its automatic transmissions from the late 80s onwards. The Ford Taurus and Windstar, Mercury Sable and Villager, and others shared the same tranny, which failed often. Again, the only resolution beyond the B2B warranty was class-action litigation. Ford never admitted to the faults in its tranny design.
VWoA has a lot of work ahead to improve customer support, but believe me, they can also do much worse


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## Blue Golfer (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

My Golf has been great, I've only had one recall on it, and I got the window regulator fixed _before_ a second recall was issued. It's had its quirks (what VW doesn't?), but overall I've been very pleased with my choices.
That made clear, it still troubles me that VW is in the situation it's in. The company is on the brink of irrelevance, even after an illustrious history that includes the Beetle, the then-radical first-generation Golf, the first econosport compact (the GTI), the successive Golf generations (all of which were tremedous improvements on the already great original iteration), the G60 supercharger, the VR6, and Turbo Direct Injection diesels. Now the company is growing complacent and risking a slide into medicority from which it may have trouble recovering, because of this damn coilpack brouhaha.
If VW wants to prove it is still a major player in the automotive woorld and can still offer engineering prowess that stacks up with the world's best, it had better fix this problem now - and _fast_ - and come out swinging. Fortunately, its fortunes are in better shape then they were a decade ago, so it is in a good position to turn things around.


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## francismartin (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Well, 
Let's list the problems: Coil packs (oopps!, not VW's fault..a company named Bremi, poor VW!), window regulators..for years, alarm/locks that can easily be broken into, oil consuming 2.0L, poor paint, side view mirror heaters that burn out rather than turn off (I know, I'm supposed to remember to turn them off!), oozing rust junk in doors, really strong center arm rest that breaks easily (bushing problem for which VW will sell you the whole armrest for about $160.00), MAF's and O2's, rear brakes that wear out within 12,000 miles, 2nd gear for manual transmissions, ...have I missed any?
These problems have in many cases been known to VW for years.......no corrections, let alone recalls.
My concern? Bought the car mainly for safety......if they can't get these basic issues right, just how good and reliable are the air bags, crumple zones, etc. Have these also shown signs of not working properly but VW is playing the I don't see it game, similar to coil packs, etc?
I will be back asking many of you for help to figure out how to do things with this car but I can honestly say this is our last VW. They can't be trusted to admit their mistakes and/or to engineer and manufacture the car right.
Don't flame me, I'm an engineer and know reliabllity problems can be fixed if you build a strong looping system of information/communication that gets the correct information back from the customers/dealers to the engineers then back to the factory floor.....VW doesn't have one.
Yes I made a mistake by buying this car. It's a shame because the potential is there.


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

quote:[HR][/HR]General Motors. They had paint issues in the late 80s and early 90s, defective alternators in at least the last decade, and shoddy braking systems in the last several years. *Not once* did GM ever offer to repair these items free of charge *at any time* beyond the original B2B warranty, let laone acknowledge the existence of the defects. For paint, only particiapants in successful class-action lawsuits received anything from [HR][/HR]​You are wrong on at least this one issue. Both me and my mother owned late 80's early 90's GM vehicles..neither of us were a part of any lawsuit...and both of us had out cars completely stripped and repainted. At no cost to us. GM also had a big problem with the QUAD4 engine blowing head gaskets..mine went out 45000 miles outside the warranty and GM STILL replaced the ENTIRE engine. At no cost to me. There actual bigger issues where with the POS 4 speed automatic overdirve tranny Buick used in the early 90's that wouldn't last for more than 70K.
As for this:
"My concern? Bought the car mainly for safety......if they can't get these basic issues right, just how good and reliable are the air bags, crumple zones, etc" 
I can personally attest to VW's crash worthiness...it is unparalleled. Had a 2002 tottaled by someone running a red light and my only injury was a cut in my forehead from my metal frame sunglasses. That was one of the major reasons I bought another one.


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## mrcvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (QcGTI)*








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Matchstick1.8t (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (mrcvr6)*

What pisses me off the most about VW problems is Vortexers. Every time somebody posts a problem about their VW on Vortex, it's flame time. As soon as the post comes up, the person gets beaten down to think that VW is allways right. All the people that dismiss these problems as whining, Thank you. Thank you for;
Quality VW coil packs
bulletproof window regulators 
useless $500 monsoon system and all the other wonderfull things that I get to drive 30 miles a month to the dealership to get fixed.
The point that I'm trying to make is that if everybody just puts up with this crap, it's never going to stop.
BTW, i just got back from the dealership because I'm getting the tranny replaced for second time in 18,000 miles.


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## francismartin (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (Helicon Twist)*

Just got off the phone with friend from Asheville, NC. They have a 2003 Subaru Forrester, brakes failed somewhat, transmission replaced at about 10,000 miles.
Subaru is giving them their choice of a NEW Subaru Forrester, never been driven by anyone, they get to pick colors. Refinanced it at a lower rate through Subaru as a "customer appreciation" effort.
When was the last time VW replaced a car...free?


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## Entourage (Apr 30, 2000)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (francismartin)*

Never.
Vw doesnt care about customers. They care about numbers.
They are about releasing ugly new cars that no one would drive. They cant get people to buy mid 20 grand cars yet they are going to release these monsters called the phaeton and the toureg. hahahahahah


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## BrianGCF (Aug 16, 2002)

*Re: Jamie/Vortex, can you fix what's wrong with VAG/VWoA? (vwvortex1)*

quote:[HR][/HR]VWoA has plans to more than double the dealer network over the next five years and they have an extensive waiting list of people trying to get one. Those people include owners of existing Lexus, Mercedes and other premium brands that know how to run a dealership right. Any new dealers have to be built and run by all the new standards and guidelines and have to be stand-alone Volkswagen-only dealers. This is a slow process, but one that I think they will get to the bottom of and fix.[HR][/HR]​Demand customer service, write your Congressman and don't forget to blame someone when something goes wrong!








Here are some first signs of the dealer network overhaul:
VW to up spending on showrooms to boost US sales 
VW creates quality leader post, adds field staff to better deal with problems


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Expanding dealers?*

quote:[HR][/HR]VWoA has plans to more than double the dealer network over the next five years and they have an extensive waiting list of people trying to get one. Those people include owners of existing Lexus, Mercedes and other premium brands that know how to run a dealership right. Any new dealers have to be built and run by all the new standards and guidelines and have to be stand-alone Volkswagen-only dealers. This is a slow process, but one that I think they will get to the bottom of and fix.[HR][/HR]​I still want to know WHY (If there is such a glut of people dying to open VW dealerships) have there been no new dealerships in the DC area for the last 5-10 years? This is one of the richest areaqs in the country and the waiting list to get an appointment at ANY of the local dealerships is weeks long...whats the hold up?


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