# Differences In 08 and Pre 08 Timing Chain Setup?



## Lucky736 (May 11, 2002)

Apologies in advance, since the new Vortex search sucks, if this has been covered already. Yes this is my professional opinion. 

So I have had many VW/Audi products over the years. My favorite was my MK3 VR. That having been said, the timing chain sucked. It was expensive, and you had a range of somewhere b/t 70k and 190k where either the guides would break and the chain needed to be replaced or worse. A very narrow time frame clearly. 

Anyway, in reading up a bit I see that the pre 08 2.5 seems to suffer from some issues. I have read that the cam gear "turns" since it is held on by torque alone. It was mentioned that this issue, and others with the chain, were "fixed" in the 08 and above. Any truth to this? Any details?

I am looking at a car in the classifieds, however if I decide to go this route I don't want to deal with this issue at 80k or 90k.

Thank you in advance, and if it has been covered apologies again. I was unable to find it.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

Mostly the 05.5 and some 06 2.5 engines had some intake cam adjuster issues and/or chain stretch issues. They redesigned it a bit after that and I have yet to see any issues with chains once they redesigned it. 

The way to do upper chain replacement on a 2.5 is probably not a good DIY option, either.


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## Lucky736 (May 11, 2002)

What was the redesign..... meaning what did they change?


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

From what I head they are using some new roller chain. I've had plenty of 2.5's apart and I don't see any obvious changes between the years 05.5 and 09.


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## Lucky736 (May 11, 2002)

Fair enough. Was hoping they found some way to keep the cam gear from turning since that seems to be a concern I keep reading about. Ah well, beautiful motors and nice cars they put them in but I guess I am going to pass on the Rabbit. 

Thank you for the answer, very much appreciated.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

Rabbit is and will always be a million times more reliable than your S4  


I've seen the cam gear move once and take out the engine in a 05 jetta 2.5. The bolts are torqued to 60nm then an addl. 90 degrees.


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## Lucky736 (May 11, 2002)

Not comparing it to my S4.  My S4 is just fine thanks. I'd rather do a t-belt five times over on a B5 S4 than a timing chain on a VR or apparently one of these. Also don't want another VW that is prone to going boom itself at will. From reading this and the MKV forums it sounds like with some 2.5's this is the case. Oh well.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

Your call. VW produced WAAAAAAY more 2.5's than 2.7T's (assuming this is what you have) and i've seen (online and in person when I worked for audi) more turbos blow than 2.5 chain or engine failures.


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## Lucky736 (May 11, 2002)

This post has nothing to do with the 2.7. It has everything to do with the same issues that plagued the VR6 timing chain, which was mentioned in the first post. The only issues with the 2.7 is that it's in car's with tiny bays and makes access to certain repairs more difficult because of it.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

From what I gather this thread was whether or not to buy a 08 rabbit based on the reliability of the timing chain and whether or not they frequently fail by spinning on the cams. I'm only comparing your current vehicle because as far as track records go the 2.5 is lightyears better in terms of reliability.....which this thread is based on. 

I'm a little confused because i haven't seen or heard of one 2.5 engine 08 or newer fail due to a chain or tensioner spinning......other than someone screwing up an installation, and you declined to buy a rabbit ONLY on my repsonse.


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## Lucky736 (May 11, 2002)

I have read on multiple forums, in and out of Vortex, about issues with the early 2.5 motor and timing chains. I know that there were some refinements and changed made in the 08 and beyond and someone in a post elsewhere had mentioned they thought they resolved the issue by doing more than just torquing the bolt the way it was on the earlier ones. You have seen many of these and have stated that as far as you can tell there is no discernable update/ upgrade. I appreciate the help and the knowledge, and thank you for clearing that up.

As far as picking my S4 and it's motor out of where? My first post and subsequent ones made no mention of my current car, or motor until you brought it up. My vehicle has been more reliable than any VW/ Audi I have owned before it. The only issue with the 2.7 was the cars they chose to stuff it into with regard to lack of space, not the engine itself. That having been said, the first post clearly mentioned VR6 as a baseline for my experiences with timing chains and their replacement along with issues. Not sure what high horse you are trying to get on but lay off. You answered the question and sorry apparently you are either jealous or upset, not sure which, that I am not interested in a Rabbit or any vehicle with a 2.5 now.

Mods feel free to close this post, it's clear that the reason I asked my question and subsequent answer is upsetting this gentleman.


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## jtrujillo86 (Aug 21, 2005)

There hasn't been a single 2007+ MKV 2.5 that has had this issue. It was all with early build 2005.5s and 2006s. Between three cars, my mom and I have collectively put 150K miles on VW 2.5L engines with no engine-related problems whatsoever. I'd take this engine during the zombie apocalypse over anything else VW/Audi has manufactured. These things can go to hell and back without issue :beer:

- Jeremy.


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## Lucky736 (May 11, 2002)

jtrujillo86 said:


> There hasn't been a single 2007+ MKV 2.5 that has had this issue. It was all with early build 2005.5s and 2006s. Between three cars, my mom and I have collectively put 150K miles on VW 2.5L engines with no engine-related problems whatsoever. I'd take this engine during the zombie apocalypse over anything else VW/Audi has manufactured. These things can go to hell and back without issue :beer:
> 
> - Jeremy.



I have to say, zombie apocalypse made me laugh for the first time in a while.


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## rob454 (Sep 18, 2009)

I have an 05.5 with almost 84k. 

No issues so far what so ever. Change your oil which in turn will keep the chain guides well lubricated and clean - maybe the car won't have timing chain issues.


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## jtrujillo86 (Aug 21, 2005)

Lucky736 said:


> I have to say, zombie apocalypse made me laugh for the first time in a while.


I actually had a fun conversation with a friend about this the other day. He thought the best _car_ for such an event would be a Subaru. Of course, I disagreed 

- Jeremy.


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## slo1304 (Oct 8, 2005)

my 05.5 had chains at 54k i got car with 56k i dont know y ?


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## Lucky736 (May 11, 2002)

At least you won't have to worry for a while then. That is a plus of having had them done recently. :thumbup:


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

I rented a 2007 Jetta a while back and it didn't have the "whine" that my 2006 has. I'm guessing that means the timing chain setup is different somehow.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

07+ 2.5L is VW's most reliable motor yet.
there has been nearly zero issues with them at all.


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## jtrujillo86 (Aug 21, 2005)

classicjetta said:


> I rented a 2007 Jetta a while back and it didn't have the "whine" that my 2006 has. I'm guessing that means the timing chain setup is different somehow.


There is NO difference between a 2006 2.5L and a 2007 2.5L. Transmissions can make sounds too, so if you're used to a stick and you were driving an auto, maybe that's what the whine was. 

- Jeremy.


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## rob454 (Sep 18, 2009)

They are all the same. 

Newer cars just didn't get a chance to get enough miles to have failures like the older ones. 

Next year, will be more 06 failures, 2012 will be 07 failures, 2013 will be 08 failures and so on. Change your oil at 5k with approved oils and pretend that your redline is at 3500rpms and you will be ok.:thumbup:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

glad your providing info thats untrue. cheers:beer:


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## rob454 (Sep 18, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> glad your providing info thats untrue. cheers:beer:



Ok, let me correct myself. 2005.5 to 2008 are the same exact chains. 

Some mentioned that they are getting failures from the 2005.5 due to the cam spinning from not being tightened down properly.

I have a friend that had a 2005.5 that put 145,000 miles on his jetta with no chain issues what so ever. He changed his oil at every 5k. Really, this is all a coin toss, but if your looking up the part numbers for the timing chains, they are all the same from 2005-2008. If the teeth were different, they would have a completely different timing chain.

I am not trying to give untrue information, I am just trying to say that these failures are not the chain's fault, its the engineers that are assembling these motors.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

chains are the same number. yes.
guides, specs and gears are not.


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## rob454 (Sep 18, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> chains are the same number. yes.
> guides, specs and gears are not.


How would the chain fit if the gears were different? Do they have longer teeth to grip the chain better?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

no idea... just know the part numbers changed.
guessing the guides are more the change then anything. teeth count must stay the same tho


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## PanzerVW (Jan 9, 2003)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> 07+ 2.5L is VW's most reliable motor yet.
> there has been nearly zero issues with them at all.


:thumbup: w00t for the 2.5
I'll trust you guys as I'm assuming you know your ish, after seeing the 2.5 swap into that MkI...still makes me drool!!!!


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

jtrujillo86 said:


> There is NO difference between a 2006 2.5L and a 2007 2.5L. Transmissions can make sounds too, so if you're used to a stick and you were driving an auto, maybe that's what the whine was.
> 
> - Jeremy.


Both my car and the rental have/had auto.


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## rob454 (Sep 18, 2009)

classicjetta said:


> Both my car and the rental have/had auto.


Are you sure it wasn't a whiney belt and also, the 2.5 uses several different belts and different specs on the motors. More than likely the belt diagram was different on the loaner than yours. I notice mine whines a lot but I drove a 2010 Jetta and did not make that whine when you first pull away.


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## soycory (Mar 1, 2011)

*Newer guides/tensioner on older engine?*

I have a 2005.5 with the 2.5. The cel just came on for both cam sensors. I am assuming that this means that the tensioner or something is bad from reading these horror stories. Anyway, can I retrofit the newer better tensioner guides etc to my motor?

Thanks


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## camjr (Nov 20, 2005)

My 2006 2.5 has just under 80k (I purchased it new in Nov. 2005). No issues on the chain whatsoever. I've followed the spec'd oil change intervals regularly with VW502.00 spec'd synthetic Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec (althought I did a 12,500 interval a while back when I just got really busy with work...). Only problems I've had are O2 sensors, a MAF sensor, and I had to replace the valve cover because the crankcase breather is part of the entire valve cover and can't be replaced by itself :banghead:.

All in all, I've been very pleased with the engine.

Cheers!


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

soycory said:


> I have a 2005.5 with the 2.5. The cel just came on for both cam sensors. I am assuming that this means that the tensioner or something is bad from reading these horror stories. Anyway, can I retrofit the newer better tensioner guides etc to my motor?
> 
> Thanks


dont drive much. check the codes.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

my 24v had revised chain guides over the 12v, among many other changes. non issue.

get an 09+ w/siemens MAP only system. enjoy the extra couple MPG and no chain issues reported thus far, plus the thing pulls like a champ to 6k+ unlike the pre 09's w/out a chip using the old MAF system.

replace your subframe bolts, torque the pendulum mount bolts to 37 ft/lb per the TSB and you'll have 100k+ problem free. no stupid MAF, no stupid brake issues, no chain issues, no chip required to hit 180ft/lb torque, no recall on ignition coils, etc etc... enjoy.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Not sure what you mean by brake issues and chain issues... The 09 maf less is a great motor however the maf doesn't really make the 08 motor any worse... Only the early motors have had chain issues. Plus the maf allows more options when it comes to after market parts i.e. chips? I know its not because one has one one doesn't its because of the encryption of the new ecu's

As far as 180 tq goes... Doesn't the 09 and 08 have nearly exact numbers? I may be wrong so please let me know! 

The best part imo of the 08's however is full mfd and serious potential! 

I am an enthusiast however and I am clearly a minority when it comes to the "average" car buyer. 

But if you want the best motor vw made in the 5 cylinder layout (for tuning and aftermarket support), its clearly the 08

NOT the 09 (yet) ;-) worse


kungfoojesus said:


> my 24v had revised chain guides over the 12v, among many other changes. non issue.
> 
> get an 09+ w/siemens MAP only system. enjoy the extra couple MPG and no chain issues reported thus far, plus the thing pulls like a champ to 6k+ unlike the pre 09's w/out a chip using the old MAF system.
> 
> replace your subframe bolts, torque the pendulum mount bolts to 37 ft/lb per the TSB and you'll have 100k+ problem free. no stupid MAF, no stupid brake issues, no chain issues, no chip required to hit 180ft/lb torque, no recall on ignition coils, etc etc... enjoy.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

siemens engine management 

don't confuse peak numbers for a better torque curve with the same peak.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Ok I got ya! Figured I was missing something cheers!


kungfoojesus said:


> siemens engine management
> 
> don't confuse peak numbers for a better torque curve with the same peak.


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