# Cleaning intake valves



## mattA3 (Feb 24, 2010)

Dealer quoted me $290 for the induction service. Is this a good price?


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## tp.wannabe.s3 (May 21, 2010)

does that mean they take the intake manifold out and clean it?
if so its good deal.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

No, that sounds like the BG Induction service where they just spray the cleaner into the intake air stream and it is supposed to clean the valves. $290 for that seems like a rip off.


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## tp.wannabe.s3 (May 21, 2010)

TBomb said:


> No, that sounds like the BG Induction service where they just spray the cleaner into the intake air stream and it is supposed to clean the valves. $290 for that seems like a rip off.


oh then no not worth it.

u can just spray it urself for cheaper lol


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## trucaliber (May 13, 2009)

BG is better than most chemical cleaners. Their tool goes in the intake and sprays over the valves.

but i had it done on my 06 A4 with 48k with little change and was just $120 at a local indie.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

that crap on the valves can be hard as a rock.

Ive taken heads apart, removed the valves and tried soaking in various valve cleaner products like ventil sauber etc, and guess what? nada.

The intake cleaners will take care of varnish like deposits, and soft fluffy stuff, but the only way to get the rock hard carbon deposits out of there is mechanical cleaning like walnut shell blasting etc.

Im not a pro, but im pretty sure those expensive dealership cleanings are, like most things at dealerships, a ripoff

Its expensive, and worse, it doesnt fix the problem. :banghead:

MAYBE if you had it done every 5k miles from new, you could stay ahead of it. maybe.


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## mattA3 (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks all. I am going to skip that service. I will see what my indy shop will charge to do a real valve cleaning and then maybe get serious about water/meth system to keep them clean.

Car is still at the dealer for 65,000 mile service. Oil change and break flush. Road noise I was hearing turned out to be wheel berings so those are on order for tomorrow.


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## Gbeav (Jun 12, 2010)

I'm running 2 cans (2 tanks) of 44k through my system before getting the BG service in about a month. I'm at about 30k miles and I want to keep my baby happy.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Gbeav said:


> I'm running 2 cans (2 tanks) of 44k through my system before getting the BG service in about a month. I'm at about 30k miles and I want to keep my baby happy.


I hope you are aware that the 44k will do absolutely nothing to clean intake valves on a direct injection engine.


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## Gbeav (Jun 12, 2010)

MisterJJ said:


> I hope you are aware that the 44k will do absolutely nothing to clean intake valves on a direct injection engine.


Is mine a direct injection engine?


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

Gbeav said:


> Is mine a direct injection engine?


iirc 3.2 vr6 are not FSI/Direct Inj...


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Gbeav said:


> Is mine a direct injection engine?


Hehe. Didn't notice you've got the 3.2. I just assumed that you had a 2.0t when you talked about getting the BG service. In that case it would be just the opposite. 44k may do some good but the BG service is a waste of money. As long as you are using top tier fuels on a regular basis there should be no need for any additional cleaning.


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## Gbeav (Jun 12, 2010)

MisterJJ said:


> Hehe. Didn't notice you've got the 3.2. I just assumed that you had a 2.0t when you talked about getting the BG service. In that case it would be just the opposite. 44k may do some good but the BG service is a waste of money. As long as you are using top tier fuels on a regular basis there should be no need for any additional cleaning.


 
I only use shell v-power but most of the techs do say it works. A couple of the younger guys say it's not worth it but all the older vets say do it. I get a good deal at the dealership on it anyway and don't mind spending the money. Both them and the BG rep said run a couple tanks in short driving and city without highway before the induction.


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## rick89 (Dec 2, 2008)

I had mine done last summer and i paid 300 cdn. I think most independent VW/Audi shops should charge that and in the America i remember it being cheaper or around the same price. They had to scrape all that carbon build up off the valves. Mine was really bad that the car made a lot of noises at idle. Once they cleaned the car is noticeably quieter and feels faster.


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## The Sage (Jul 30, 2004)

i was working very closely with my BG rep to develop a system to clean the 2.0t FSI valves by using induction service and by using a chemical for diesel engines to clean valves. you have to heat the motor up to Op temps and then remove the manifold hot. and the let this cleaner sit on the CLOSED valves and the scrape the **** off and then clean the ports and remove all the stuff. this worked very well but we charged upwards of 5 labor hours for this service. not including parts. Ask BG there is a write up on how to do this published by BG specifically for the FSI.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

Thanks to MisterJJ and the picture he posted in another thread I got really motivated and finished cleaning the valves myself 1/2hr ago. My car is 09 A3 tfsi with @105k. I took my time and did the job in 6hrs. The cost - $2.99 cleaner from autozone. The car was a company car before I bought it and has been serviced by Audi mechanics all the time. I doubt they cleaned the valves at all.


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## mattA3 (Feb 24, 2010)

Took me a while to find MisterJJ's post but here it is. This should be added to the DIY sticky.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5019572-My-Intake-Valve-Cleaning&p=67532485#post67532485

Thanks MisterJJ.:thumbup:


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## mattA3 (Feb 24, 2010)

mattA3 said:


> Took me a while to find MisterJJ's post but here it is. This should be added to the DIY sticky.
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5019572-My-Intake-Valve-Cleaning&p=67532485#post67532485
> 
> Thanks MisterJJ.:thumbup:


Darn.. Link to the intake manafold removal PDF is broke.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

mattA3 said:


> Darn.. Link to the intake manafold removal PDF is broke.


I used this one:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-DIY-Valve-Cleaning&highlight=intake+manifold


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## Audi'sRevenge (Mar 24, 2008)

Evo V said:


> I used this one:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-DIY-Valve-Cleaning&highlight=intake+manifold


That's a nice writeup  Will have to do this this fall I think, car has over 40k miles on it now, never cleaned.

Too bad there isn't some version of the 3M Roloc discs that will fit in there (doesn't look like it anyway--too small), the ones with the plastic "fingers" I mean. That would make it a much easier job I think...


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

nobody tried taking the airbox out and spraying WD40 into the intake (past the MAF sensor) like back in the carburetor days?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

LWNY said:


> nobody tried taking the airbox out and spraying WD40 into the intake (past the MAF sensor) like back in the carburetor days?


Solvents don't do a good job of taking it off. You'd also want to spray right at the TB or after it. Post-maf would just suck it into the turbo and intercooler tract.

Dave


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## jowsley0923 (Oct 13, 2008)

i had a warranty issue with mine so they replaced the whole thing for me. i hope its clean?


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## Audi'sRevenge (Mar 24, 2008)

jowsley0923 said:


> i had a warranty issue with mine so they replaced the whole thing for me. i hope its clean?


 They replaced the cylinder head you mean? In that case yeah it would be clean...until it gets gunked up again


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

I'd love to do this to my '06 if anyone is in the Ottawa / Montreal / Kingston area and wants to join me in the frustration or someone that's done it before that wants to make a few $$ ... PM me.


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## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

I found this great video on BG induction service. Seems to me that it works like a charm.

http://vimeo.com/3989681


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

everfresh59 said:


> I found this great video on BG induction service. Seems to me that it works like a charm.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/3989681


LOL of course it seems that way...bro is wearing a BG shirt, in case you didn't notice. I'm not saying that video is total propaganda, but most of the guys who have done the manual cleaning say that you have to let a chemical actually pool and sit on the valves for 10 minutes or so (the same length of time the BG product is just spraying on the valves) then scrub the valves pretty good to get everything off. I might believe it if I was able to scope all 4 cylinders before and after and see it with my own eyes.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

everfresh59 said:


> I found this great video on BG induction service. Seems to me that it works like a charm.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/3989681


I am also skeptical of anyone that is showing the proof and selling the product. Everything I have read talks about having to scrape the valves to get the clean. I can't see a mist cleaning the valves as it goes by. 

Have an independent run the test, don't use a car with 15k miles and show all the valves before and after. If it really works doing the above wouldn't take much time or money as it seems pretty quick.


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## Greddy87 (Oct 21, 2010)

Had my A3 since new.. Oil changes every 5-6000K- Motul Injector Cleaner, Motul Fuel Cleaner and-Motul Synthetic oil.. Car runs great.. Just recently got an Oil Catch can.. This also helps..


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Oil changes every 5-6000K - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
Motul Injector Cleaner - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
Motul Fuel Cleaner - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
Motul Synthetic oil - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
Car runs great - Buildup happens so slowly you don't notice any change.
Oil Catch can - May help slightly, but probably not enough to matter.

What part of "Direct Injection" do we not understand? Fuel never touches this area. Whatever oil you put in will still seep through the valve guides and build up on the intake valves.


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## mattA3 (Feb 24, 2010)

MisterJJ said:


> Oil changes every 5-6000K - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
> Motul Injector Cleaner - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
> Motul Fuel Cleaner - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
> Motul Synthetic oil - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
> ...


x2
I think catch can and water meth injection from day/mile one is the only way to keep the valves clean.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

mattA3 said:


> x2
> I think catch can and water meth injection from day/mile one is the only way to keep the valves clean.


Perhaps. Even then, unless you are running some type of direct port meth injection, you probably won't really get enough spray on all the valves to keep them clean. It might delay the need to clean them a little longer than if you did nothing, but that's probably all.


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

the only thing a catch can will do is lighten your wallet.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

mattA3 said:


> x2
> I think catch can and water meth injection from day/mile one is the only way to keep the valves clean.


Neither will do anything to help keep deposits down.


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## Greddy87 (Oct 21, 2010)

Sounds like ur opinion.. I know what Im driving do U ? lol..


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## Greddy87 (Oct 21, 2010)

MisterJJ said:


> Oil changes every 5-6000K - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
> Motul Injector Cleaner - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
> Motul Fuel Cleaner - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
> Motul Synthetic oil - Does not effect intake valve buildup.
> ...


 Hey thats ur opinion.. I know what I drive, and it pulls... lol.. 2ndly Oil catch can is mostly important for the winter season.. Every month that sucker gets full lol..


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Greddy87 said:


> Sounds like ur opinion.. I know what Im driving do U ? lol..


Why don't you pull off your intake manifold and check?

Lol.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Greddy87 said:


> Hey thats ur opinion.. I know what I drive, and it pulls... lol.. 2ndly Oil catch can is mostly important for the winter season.. Every month that sucker gets full lol..


It's not my "opinion" that the fuel never touches the intake valves so your fuel and fuel additives don't change a thing. It's also not an opinion that the valve guides weep lots of oil, causing the majority of the buildup and no catch can is going to change that.

However, it is your opinion that what your doing has magically prevented your car from getting buildup on the intake valves.


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

Greddy87 said:


> Sounds like ur opinion.. I know what Im driving do U ? lol..


I even know what you are driving.


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

Greddy87 said:


> Hey thats ur opinion.. I know what I drive, and it pulls... lol.. 2ndly Oil catch can is mostly important for the winter season.. Every month that sucker gets full lol..


It will with water condensation oily muck. If you don't have a catch can this "burns off" when the oil reaches temp and is never stored in the cranckcase. You only see it because it gets trapped in the catch and it never gets up to operating temps in the catch can. Like I said before the catch can does nothing but give you a false sense that you are helping the deposit problem.


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## theblue (Aug 16, 2001)

I see we have more of the old "if my catch can fills up with ugly looking stuff it must be helping with something"


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

theblue said:


> I see we have more of the old "if my catch can fills up with ugly looking stuff it must be helping with something"


 It's the greatest sales-trick in the world. 

"Do *YOU* want this going in your engine????" 

lol 

Catch cans are good for a few things only: 
-- keeping oil out of your intercooler hoses 
-- eliminating the possibility that your PCV may fail / although it gives you another modification that may fail in itself 
-- giving you something to do every few hundred miles (emptying the can) 
-- taking a buttload of cash out of your wallet (some of the kits are approaching $500) 

Dave


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## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

I think in the very end BG induction does help clean out the valves, but not as clean as removing the manifold and doing it by hand. 

I think of it much like a stubborn sticker; the longer its been there, the harder it's going to be to take off. You can rip most of it off by hand, but the residue will need some patience and plenty of wax on wax off action. 

BG helps by removing whats been caked on there in the short term, but whatever has been there for much longer will need to be scraped off. 

I'm probably going to do the induction service in the coming weeks, and come spring time, I'll clean my manifold the RIGHT WAY. 


P.S. It's funny I just realized the best way to remove and old sticker is with gas...


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Greddy87 said:


> Hey thats ur opinion.. I know what I drive, and it pulls... lol.. 2ndly Oil catch can is mostly important for the winter season.. Every month that sucker gets full lol..


 LOL facts, right? :facepalm:


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

everfresh59 said:


> I think in the very end BG induction does help clean out the valves, but not as clean as removing the manifold and doing it by hand.
> 
> I think of it much like a stubborn sticker; the longer its been there, the harder it's going to be to take off. You can rip most of it off by hand, but the residue will need some patience and plenty of wax on wax off action.
> 
> ...


 Save the induction service for after you clean it the right way. I used Sea Foam once it was all back together to wipe out any excess resin that I had loosened by hand that may have gotten stuck and not blown out when I finished. Then, I changed my oil. :thumbup:


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

Rob Cote said:


> Save the induction service for after you clean it the right way. I used Sea Foam once it was all back together to wipe out any excess resin that I had loosened by hand that may have gotten stuck and not blown out when I finished. Then, I changed my oil. :thumbup:


 I did the same after I cleaned mine. 

You guys can argue as much as you want, but the only way to understand it is to open and see it with your own eyes. No spray or aditive can clean the deposits.


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## SorryIfarted (Mar 5, 2005)

290 is a rip off, My local audi dealer did my 07 A3 2.0T for 200 out the door.


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## SorryIfarted (Mar 5, 2005)

Wait..so catch cans dont help anything???? Serious question. As i was about to order the BSH PCV fix/Street catch can set.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Correct. 

Catch cans fill up more rapidly in the cooler termperatures because vapors condense more readily in cooler temps... basic physics. 

The same amount of crap is fired out of the motor either way. Deal with it. 

At least one catch can manufacturer is offering purchasers their money back if they request it... -If that doesn't say 'it doesn't work as advertised' then nothing does. 

Sorry, I forgot to lol. 

Lol. 

(Never lol'd before... don't think I enjoyed lol-ing this time.... since nobody actually laughs out loud when they write this nonsense, I think "LOL" actually indicates "I don't think a lot, and don't have very much accurate or helpful stuff to contribute, but I feel compelled to write something") 

lol. 

Have I lol'd enough? 

lol. 

:laugh: 

lol. 

:facepalm:


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## SorryIfarted (Mar 5, 2005)

ok, so no catch can. Whats the best thing to do with our crappy PCV's then? Just rebuild them? ignore them?


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

VWAddict said:


> Correct.
> 
> Catch cans fill up more rapidly in the cooler termperatures because vapors condense more readily in cooler temps... basic physics.
> 
> ...


 I actually received an email at work today from someone across the cube-hallway who was laughing as she typed "LOL. You know it's true because you heard it." It was true.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Rob Cote said:


> I actually received an email at work today from someone across the cube-hallway who was laughing as she typed "LOL. You know it's true because you heard it." It was true.


 Okay then, in pursuance of my research into the matter, I'll add "People don't laugh out loud when they write 'LOL' unless they're simple". 

Or how about reducing it to: "Did you ever notice how the _smart_ people tend NOT to write 'LOL'?"


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

VWAddict said:


> Okay then, in pursuance of my research into the matter, I'll add "People don't laugh out loud when they write 'LOL' unless they're simple".
> 
> Or how about reducing it to: "Did you ever notice how the _smart_ people tend NOT to write 'LOL'?"


 I think I've written it like thrice in my life. Each time it was in a mocking manner.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Rob Cote said:


> I think I've written it like thrice in my life. Each time it was in a mocking manner.


 I'm with you... _(snickering cynically behind the screen! :laugh_ 

Back to the issue at hand, I'm calling the Audi service dept to take my car in to try and find out WHY it's running so roughly until warmed up... and even when fully warm, gas mileage is down by about 25%. 

-I've been so anal about documenting miles-per tank (as evidenced by the multi-page threads on these fora) and even kept a complete excel spreadsheet logging mileage, gallons needed to fill the tank, indicated fuel consumption, ACTUAL fuel consumption (automatically calculated in the spreadsheet) that I can provide measured performance data showing that consumption went over a precipice about 1,000 miles/between 3-and-4 tanks ago. 

Ignition is all replaced (coil packs and plugs) with no difference. -Whatever it is, I want THEM to find it now, and I'm concerned that it might be either intake fouling or injector performance... either way, the manifold would have to come off, and I'm feeling that THEY should look it over. 

Keith


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

I feel like that should be more than sufficient data for them to man up. I also feel like they're going to be like this:  or like this: :laugh: at you. They being the service rep at the dealer. Best of luck and keep us posted.


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## jericks2 (Aug 10, 2011)

Rob Cote said:


> I feel like that should be more than sufficient data for them to man up. I also feel like they're going to be like this:  or like this: :laugh: at you. They being the service rep at the dealer. Best of luck and keep us posted.


 A co-worker of mine when in to a dealer with similar issues, he showed them his mileage logs and they gave him a pamphlet called "Understanding Your Car's Efficiency" with "Economy Tips" on how to drive the car :laugh: 

In all seriousness though, good luck VWAddict. Hopefully they won't give you the run-around :thumbup:


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

VWAddict said:


> I'm with you... _(snickering cynically behind the screen! :laugh_
> 
> Back to the issue at hand, I'm calling the Audi service dept to take my car in to try and find out WHY it's running so roughly until warmed up... and even when fully warm, gas mileage is down by about 25%.


 hey, i'm curious to know how rough is rough. at cold start-up is your idle bouncing around, is there uneven vibration/bumps in the cabin, can you hear (i don't know how to explain this but...) sporadic thuds in your exhaust note, have you lifted the hood to see what your engine is doing, etc. 

i just went in for flashing CEL (6 misfires log'd). it was coupled with uneven vibration. they replaced a faulty injector. it seems a bit smoother but i still get some uneven vibration. 

i asked them to take a look at the carbon build-up. who knows if they really did but they said no issues. i have less than 20k on the clock. so, hopefully that the case.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Rob Cote said:


> I think I've written it like thrice in my life. Each time it was in a mocking manner.


 This.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

jericks2 said:


> A co-worker of mine when in to a dealer with similar issues, he showed them his mileage logs and they gave him a pamphlet called "Understanding Your Car's Efficiency" with "Economy Tips" on how to drive the car :laugh:
> 
> In all seriousness though, good luck VWAddict. Hopefully they won't give you the run-around :thumbup:


 I've got logs with STUNNING numbers per tank. -Almost 440 miles on one occasion, and well over 400 on several others, with photographic evidence here: 










...also... 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/SSLtech/IMG_5895.jpg 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/SSLtech/IMG_5878.jpg 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/SSLtech/IMG_5855.jpg 

There's at least five recorded tanks of over 400 miles-per-tank from a 2.0T A3... WITH a passenger, and -in more than one case- WITH roof rack AND two bicycles... -Any attempt to 'educate' me about how to get more efficiency will be given VERY short shrift. 

:laugh: 



pjunk1 said:


> hey, i'm curious to know how rough is rough. at cold start-up is your idle bouncing around, is there uneven vibration/bumps in the cabin, can you hear (i don't know how to explain this but...) sporadic thuds in your exhaust note, have you lifted the hood to see what your engine is doing, etc.
> 
> i just went in for flashing CEL (6 misfires log'd). it was coupled with uneven vibration. they replaced a faulty injector. it seems a bit smoother but i still get some uneven vibration.
> 
> i asked them to take a look at the carbon build-up. who knows if they really did but they said no issues. i have less than 20k on the clock. so, hopefully that the case.


 Rough as in 'bucking', 'tugging' or 'lurching' when trying to hold a steady sped while cold. -Engine twisting in the mounts, passengers (non 'car-people') saying 'what the hell's up with the car?' -that sort of thing. 

I'm taking the car in in ten minutes. -I called this morning and made an appointment, and as soon as I hung the phone up, the missus called me to tell me she'd made an appointment for me to take the car in! (She'd been on the phone to the service writer next to the person that I'd been speaking to!) 

We'll know more when we know more. -I'm probably going to ask them about changing the HPFP follower while they're under the hood. -Mine ISN'T covered under the warranty extension (mine's a 2008... -Grrrrrr!)


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## dreaminga3 (Jan 20, 2009)

Roughness might be due to the tumble flaps in the intake manifold. Your symptoms fit. but there's usually a CEL. Sorry, don't have time to search for all the info, but I had this turn up with I got the CEL. Give it a search in the 2.0 FSI forum.


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## cldub (Jul 2, 2010)

****, I'm lucky if I get over 300 per tank. And that's almost all highway driving with very little "spirit"


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

VWAddict said:


> I've got logs with STUNNING numbers per tank. -Almost 440 miles on one occasion, and well over 400 on several others, with photographic evidence here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 damn! seems pretty violent. i really hope you get it fixed. 

man, i can't figure out how you get that kind of mpg. amazing! you must drive mostly highway?


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

I get better mileage on back roads than I do on the highway. Remember drag increases with the square of velocity.


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## Dr Chill (Aug 24, 2011)

Just had BG induction service done. Car (52,000 miles) does have slightly noticeable improvement in acceleration. Cost was $180. Figured it was worth a shot considering time and effort needed to clean valves manually. 

Anyone know if polyol ester motor oils like Redline should cause less carbon buildup?


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## cldub (Jul 2, 2010)

Rob Cote said:


> I get better mileage on back roads than I do on the highway. Remember drag increases with the square of velocity.


 I'll be draftin fools left and right


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

Rob Cote said:


> I get better mileage on back roads than I do on the highway. Remember drag increases with the square of velocity.


 ahhhhh...what???  haha! 

all i know is that i get crap mileage in LA traffic. i think i average about 330-340miles between fill-ups. but my commute is even mix of street and highway miles.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Dr Chill said:


> Anyone know if polyol ester motor oils like Redline should cause less carbon buildup?


 Don't know but I'll be able to tell you in about 30k miles when I clean them again after only using Redline.


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

MisterJJ said:


> Don't know but I'll be able to tell you in about 30k miles when I clean them again after only using Redline.


 :thumbup: I'll wait.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Rob Cote said:


> I get better mileage on back roads than I do on the highway. Remember drag increases with the square of velocity.


 Not exactly, but close enough. However, constant speed GREATLY increases the efficiency of the engine. Using cruise control is the easiest way to achieve the best gas mileage gains. Jack-rabbit starts GREATLY reduces mileage. So I compromise... I use cruise control a lot to make up for punching it off the line.


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

MisterJJ said:


> So I compromise... I use cruise control a lot to make up for punching it off the line.


 x2 :thumbup: 

APR's 93 tune is just too fun not to.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

Rob Cote said:


> I get better mileage on back roads than I do on the highway. Remember drag increases with the square of velocity.


 That's the best I ever had, cruising on the back roads for 1hr with two kids on the back seat.


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

Rob Cote said:


> x2 :thumbup:
> 
> APR's 93 tune is just too fun not to.


 man, i need to get APR STG 1 soon. i've been spending more than i'd liked this past year on new wheels & tires and coilovers. i need to cool it since every time i spend my wife gets to spend. double whammy! 

gas station right by the house has 100 octane gas. it would be too much fun! down right stupid.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

CONSTANT speed is one factor... LOW speed is the other. 

If you can lock it at 55MPH cruise control... numbers should be 400+. 

If you were to do 45MPH constant, numbers would be even better... but you'd have to FORCE me to do that. 

I typically cruise about 60MPH, but one or two of those 400+ miles-per-tank were at least 50% town driving, believe it or not. -If you have to speed up and brake, reducing the AMOUNT that you do helps... so if a light goes red, there's no need to charge at it and throw out the anchors as you get to the line. -Be mellow, chill, enjoy the ride, and gas mileage improves as a result. 

It's important to get a 'feel' for stretching gas, even for racing... ask any F1 driver. "To finish first, you must first finish"!


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

The difference that it made when I cleaned mine out was motivation to clean the intake on my girlfriend's Mk4 Golf TDI. Can't wait to see what 230,xxx miles does to an intake on one of those hogs. :banghead::laugh:


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Well, the service dept just called. It seems that I do need an intake cleaning... $1525 to start. 

I gave them the go-ahead... 

Damn, this is expensive!


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

VWAddict said:


> $1525
> 
> I gave them the go-ahead...


 HOLY ****! Are you psycho!?


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Rob Cote said:


> HOLY ****! Are you psycho!?


 I hope not... but I can't take the time to do it myself right now, and I'm going to need the car... Don't see a lot of options. 

Apparently the dealership wants to ascribe a lot of the blame to gasoline. -Seems that VW and Audi only approves the use of gasolines listed on the www.toptiergas.com site... TAKE NOTE and only tell your service writer that you use Chevron, Texaco, Shell or one of the other approved gasolines.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

VWAddict said:


> I hope not... but I can't take the time to do it myself right now, and I'm going to need the car... Don't see a lot of options.
> 
> Apparently the dealership wants to ascribe a lot of the blame to gasoline. -Seems that VW and Audi only approves the use of gasolines listed on the www.toptiergas.com site... TAKE NOTE and only tell your service writer that you use Chevron, Texaco, Shell or one of the other approved gasolines.


 There's a lubrizol scientific paper which shows a reduction of intake deposits by ~ 20% when using ester based oils. I'm surprised VW/Audi hasn't started recommending it over the "poor gas" excuse. 

Dave


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Should add that they're also replacing all 4 injectors... what is the price on an injector w/seals etc?


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

VWAddict said:


> Should add that they're also replacing all 4 injectors... what is the price on an injector w/seals etc?


 That changes everything and the price makes far more sens now :beer:


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

I also spoke with them about the cam follower, and the service writer offered to replace it for cost of parts only, -since they're already under the hood, they wouldn't charge labor. 

I told him to go ahead and do that and retain the old follower for inspection, so I can get a sense of how it's wearing.


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## jericks2 (Aug 10, 2011)

VWAddict said:


> I hope not... but I can't take the time to do it myself right now, and I'm going to need the car... Don't see a lot of options.
> 
> Apparently the dealership wants to ascribe a lot of the blame to gasoline. -Seems that VW and Audi only approves the use of gasolines listed on the www.toptiergas.com site... TAKE NOTE and only tell your service writer that you use Chevron, Texaco, Shell or one of the other approved gasolines.


 Yep. Good fuel does make a difference on gunk/carbon build up. And before anyone says, "are you F***ing stupid!! These motors are direct injected moron"  let me explain. On these engines during the very beginning of the exhaust stroke the intake valves are slightly opened. Some of the unburnt gunk is then pushed back into the intake to be "reburned" on the next cycle. This is done to reduce the emmisions. High quality fuels will burn more completely and therefore less gunk will be sent back into the intake for the second time around. Yes there will still be gunk and carbon build up on your valves, but there will be much more if you use dirty fuel.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

...that would be the END of the exhaust stroke, surely? -Not the beginning... 

Opening during the induction stroke and then opening a SECOND time would require TWO 'bump' cam lobes to open the valves two times. -I'm pretty sure that what you'd be describing would be 'overlap', where both intake and exhaust valves would be open at the same instant, but this would be at the END of the exhaust stroke, where the intake valves would open just slightly 'early'. 

Other than that, your description sounds reasonable enough, though I haven't ever looked at the valve timing to see if the FSI motor has any overlap. -It may well do so.


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

It clearly doesn't work to the effect of significantly reducing the amount of built up gunk. So, no offense or anything, but whatever point it is you're trying to make, is essentially null. 

Maybe it would build up more with no cam overlap. Maybe it wouldn't. I'm not going to try and find out.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

VWAddict said:


> Should add that they're also replacing all 4 injectors... what is the price on an injector w/seals etc?


 ~$60 each injector. 

Dave


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## jericks2 (Aug 10, 2011)

VWAddict said:


> ...that would be the END of the exhaust stroke, surely? -Not the beginning...
> 
> Opening during the induction stroke and then opening a SECOND time would require TWO 'bump' cam lobes to open the valves two times. -I'm pretty sure that what you'd be describing would be 'overlap', where both intake and exhaust valves would be open at the same instant, but this would be at the END of the exhaust stroke, where the intake valves would open just slightly 'early'.
> 
> Other than that, your description sounds reasonable enough, though I haven't ever looked at the valve timing to see if the FSI motor has any overlap. -It may well do so.


 Yep. Sorry I should've proof read my post before I submitted it. 



Rob Cote said:


> It clearly doesn't work to the effect of significantly reducing the amount of built up gunk. So, no offense or anything, but whatever point it is you're trying to make, is essentially null.
> 
> Maybe it would build up more with no cam overlap. Maybe it wouldn't. I'm not going to try and find out.


 My point is that the cleaner fuels leave less unburnt crap left over. Over time this will slightly reduce the amount of build up. You will still have to clean your valves but there is a slight benefit to using these fuels. 

If you search around you'll find a few techinal pdf's from VW that discuss the valve timing and also show's why certain fuels are recommend.


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

so according to the quote of $1525 to start, minus the $240 injectors, that's $1285. "to start", i suppose that means it could go higher than that. 

based on $120/hour labor, does it take 10 hours or more to clean up the intake valves? 




crew219 said:


> ~$60 each injector.
> 
> Dave


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

forma said:


> so according to the quote of $1525 to start, minus the $240 injectors, that's $1285. "to start", i suppose that means it could go higher than that.
> 
> based on $120/hour labor, does it take 10 hours or more to clean up the intake valves?


 It took 6hrs when I cleaned mine. and I opened the intake for a first time. If they reallllly take there time maybe 8hrs.


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## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

forma said:


> so according to the quote of $1525 to start, minus the $240 injectors, that's $1285. "to start", i suppose that means it could go higher than that.
> 
> based on $120/hour labor, does it take 10 hours or more to clean up the intake valves?


 I'm assuming you could probably save 700-800 by going to a reputable Audi mechanic. I was considering the same thing while my car is being serviced for cam and fuel pump fix. 

Can't fuel injectors be cleaned as oppose to being replaced?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

forma said:


> so according to the quote of $1525 to start, minus the $240 injectors, that's $1285. "to start", i suppose that means it could go higher than that.
> 
> based on $120/hour labor, does it take 10 hours or more to clean up the intake valves?


 Keep in mind that $60 is what you'll find on dealer sites that give people parts close to cost. 

I've seen the same injectors marked up to $110 or so. 

Dave


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

$1525 
- ($120 per injector x 4 = $480) 
- $120 (free labor for replacing the cam follower) 
- $120 x 7 hours (cleaning intake valves) = $840 

= $85 

not counting labor for replacing the injectors. 







crew219 said:


> Keep in mind that $60 is what you'll find on dealer sites that give people parts close to cost.
> 
> I've seen the same injectors marked up to $110 or so.
> 
> Dave


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

forma said:


> $1525
> - ($120 per injector x 4 = $480)
> - $120 (free labor for replacing the cam follower)
> - $120 x 7 hours (cleaning intake valves) = $840
> ...


  

1) Why are you subtracting "free labor" from the total? 
2) Why are we left with $85? (I understand subtraction) 
3) Shouldn't we be left with $205 if we're not charged the $120 of free labor? 
4) Shouldn't the total - itemized bill = $0? 


So confuse.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

jericks2 said:


> Yep. Good fuel does make a difference on gunk/carbon build up.


 I don't buy it. First of all "top-tier" gas and regular gas is all drawn from the same exact bulk storage tanks. To say that "top-tier" gas is cleaner would be false. The difference is that the top-tier gas uses additives that clean injectors and clean off intake valve deposits in engines without direct injection. These additives are meant to function in unburned gasoline and with lot's of it being washed over the intake valves. A small blast of burned additives may actually add to the build up. Besides, it's the oil seeping from the valve guides causing the vast majority of build up. 

I used top-tier gas almost exclusively before cleaning my gunked up intake valves. Many others have done the same with no better results. Now I use mostly cheaper gas and use a bottle of good injector cleaner once in a while.


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

i'm not very mechanically inclined like some of you guys that know our cars but it just seems from everything i've read that A3 owners can't really do much to prevent build-up. 

i better start saving for my future cleaning. hopefully, the TSI engine doesn't get as bad of build-up as the FSI but it sounds like there isn't much difference.


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## jericks2 (Aug 10, 2011)

MisterJJ said:


> I don't buy it. First of all "top-tier" gas and regular gas is all drawn from the same exact bulk storage tanks. To say that "top-tier" gas is cleaner would be false. The difference is that the top-tier gas uses additives that clean injectors and clean off intake valve deposits in engines without direct injection. These additives are meant to function in unburned gasoline and with lot's of it being washed over the intake valves. A small blast of burned additives may actually add to the build up. Besides, it's the oil seeping from the valve guides causing the vast majority of build up.
> 
> I used top-tier gas almost exclusively before cleaning my gunked up intake valves. Many others have done the same with no better results. Now I use mostly cheaper gas and use a bottle of good injector cleaner once in a while.


 It isn't false at all. One of the tests done on all gasoline is collecting and weighing "leftovers" after combustion. The rules on how many leftovers are allowed for top-tier fuels are much more strict than the EPA requirments. ALL gasoline has detergent additives as mandated by the EPA but the detergents added to the top-teir fuels has to burn more completely in order to meet these more strict requirements (among other things). 

Tons of people have stories about how I used the best gasoline and still got carbon build up so that must mean this doesn't do anything. The fact of the matter is that the benefit is subtle. You'd have to do some very controlled before/after measurements in order to see it. 

I'm not at all saying that it'll stop carbon build up in the engines. I am saying, however, that it can slow it down... even if it only means you get an extra 3k miles between cleanings.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

pjunk1 said:


> i'm not very mechanically inclined like some of you guys that know our cars but it just seems from everything i've read that A3 owners can't really do much to prevent build-up.
> 
> i better start saving for my future cleaning. hopefully, the TSI engine doesn't get as bad of build-up as the FSI but it sounds like there isn't much difference.


 You can take a look at the pictures I have posted earlier on this thread. They are from my tsi engine @100k miles. Build up was nasty. So if you don't want to do it yourself, start saving.


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

Rob Cote said:


> obviously
> 
> 1) Why are you subtracting "free labor" from the total?
> 
> ...


 you might probably continue to be after reading this


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

forma said:


> you might probably continue to be after reading this


 Ohhh I got you now :thumbup: Yeah. I agree. It seems really steep. Maybe he's getting S3 injectors for super-secret big power build?


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Rob Cote said:


> ...Maybe he's getting S3 injectors for super-secret big power build?


 
-I wish!!! :laugh:


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

actually, it doesn't seem to be that steep after factoring in the injectors, labor to install the injectors and the free labor to replace the cam follower. 

hence, i said $85 overage but that does not account for the labor cost to replace the injectors. in other words, once you factor in the labor for the injector, the OP would be ahead. that is, of course, based on the assumption that the labor rate is $120 and that the injector is $120 a pop and that it takes 7 hours to clean the intake valves. 




Rob Cote said:


> Ohhh I got you now :thumbup: Yeah. I agree. It seems really steep. Maybe he's getting S3 injectors for super-secret big power build?


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

Why are you including "free labor" for injectors in the equation? 99% sure that is included in a R&R of the intake in a flat rate manual for a FSI. Also wasn't the price quoted before they agreed to do the follower for free? Doesn't make sense to deduct it then. Are you going to deduct the price of a car wash if it comes back cleaned?


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

There are other 'invisible' benefits... One is the loaner of a new A4 for a few days. 

One other invisible benefit is the ability to say that other than checking/topping off fluids as required in between service oil changes, and replacing plugs & coil packs, the ONLY times that the hood has been lifted on this motor, it's been at the Audi dealership service dept. -There's a certain reassurance associated with that, insofar as they can't say _"well, this thing wasn't done right, so no wonder you're having trouble... it'll cost you $x,000 to sort it out!"_. 

As of right now, I'm also considering how to continue the dialog further up the chain. -For now, I have to cooperate fully with the dealership, or I lose a potentially helpful partner in the process.


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

Uber-A3 said:


> Why are you including "free labor" for injectors in the equation? 99% sure that is included in a R&R of the intake in a flat rate manual for a FSI. Also wasn't the price quoted before they agreed to do the follower for free? Doesn't make sense to deduct it then. Are you going to deduct the price of a car wash if it comes back cleaned?


 i did not include "free labor" for injectors in the speculated guesstimation. 

yes, the price quoted before they agreed to do the follower for free. 

yes, it does make sense to deduct the free labor for the cam follower since it pertains to what i was doing, that is, to speculate/guesstimate if the dealer's quote on cleaning the intake valves was reasonable. 

no, i am not going to deduct the price of a car wash because car wash is not part of the repair and car wash is not charged at the presumably $120/hour.


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## theblue (Aug 16, 2001)

I was thinking last night and do you think that a wet nitrous shot would keep things clean??? you'd be getting fuel into that area now so it might solve the problem.


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## dman4486 (Jun 22, 2011)

theblue said:


> I was thinking last night and do you think that a wet nitrous shot would keep things clean??? you'd be getting fuel into that area now so it might solve the problem.


 it would have to be a continuous 300+ shot or it wouldn't make any difference 










opcorn:


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

i'm convinced there is nothing we can really do that will make a substantial difference in preventing build-up. 

that sucks donkey! :thumbdown:


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

italian tune-up (revving at above 3000 rpm for 20 minutes or more)?


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Latest news is that the process is taking longer than originally anticipated. -My take is that I'm perfectly happy for it to take as long as it does, providing it's done thoroughly. -I'd rather have a thorough, slow job, than a half-ass quick one.


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

VWAddict said:


> Latest news is that the process is taking longer than originally anticipated. -My take is that I'm perfectly happy for it to take as long as it does, providing it's done thoroughly. -I'd rather have a thorough, slow job, than a half-ass quick one.


 yeah, get the elbow grease out. 

i'm curious to know what they will actually do to get rid of the build-up? did they mention they would get at it manually with brush & solvent/cleaner?


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## yowzaa (Jul 31, 2007)

anyone try Easy Off oven cleaner? It seems to work well with old frying pans


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## skotti (Sep 27, 2005)

I read somewhere that the 'Italian tuneup'- IIRC, driving in a lower gear, keeping the RPMs above 4000 for 20-30 minutes is actually recommended periodically by VAG. 
Perhaps if this were done from mile 1, the carbon buildup wouldn't be as bad...?


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

no need to go above 4000 rpm 

just above 3000 rpm for about 20 minutes is what the vag engineers recommended for the FSI engines. 

this could be accomplished by driving on the highway/parkway in 5th gear. 




skotti said:


> I read somewhere that the 'Italian tuneup'- IIRC, driving in a lower gear, keeping the RPMs above 4000 for 20-30 minutes is actually recommended periodically by VAG.
> Perhaps if this were done from mile 1, the carbon buildup wouldn't be as bad...?


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## cldub (Jul 2, 2010)

forma said:


> no need to go above 4000 rpm
> 
> just above 3000 rpm for about 20 minutes is what the vag engineers recommended for the FSI engines.
> 
> this could be accomplished by driving on the highway/parkway in 5th gear.


 Might have to try this


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

yowzaa said:


> anyone try Easy Off oven cleaner? It seems to work well with old frying pans


 Yup. Sure did. Softened up the deposits but not sure it really saved much time considering the soak time. Softer, gooey stuff isn't much easier to clean.


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## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

forma said:


> italian tune-up (revving at above 3000 rpm for 20 minutes or more)?


 Followed by a BG induction service, I bet it would do wonders! Probably not the same as spending a day taking it apart, but probably going to feel a difference.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

skotti said:


> I read somewhere that the 'Italian tuneup'- IIRC, driving in a lower gear, keeping the RPMs above 4000 for 20-30 minutes is actually recommended periodically by VAG.
> Perhaps if this were done from mile 1, the carbon buildup wouldn't be as bad...?


 This: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw32fiasUSs


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

skotti said:


> I read somewhere that the 'Italian tuneup'- IIRC, driving in a lower gear, keeping the RPMs above 4000 for 20-30 minutes is actually recommended periodically by VAG.
> Perhaps if this were done from mile 1, the carbon buildup wouldn't be as bad...?


 There was actually a pdf that was floating around at one point that stated that extended high RPM driving would reduce the amount of carbon buildup on the VAG direct injection motor. They did list 3000 rpm but I don't think there was a time and to me it seems like 20-30 minutes isn't long. The paper stated that extended high RPM driving would heat up the valves to a point that would burn off some of the deposits. I don't know if this is correct or not. 

I tried searching on the internet but couldn't find it. 

There is a huge amount of information here - http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/336352-Audi-FSI-Engine-Carbon-Build-up-Megathread


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

http://www.google.com/patents?id=fL...q=valve+coating+carbon+VW#v=onepage&q&f=false 

go to page 17 

An additional approach for reducing the formation of carbon deposits on the intake valves 20 is to increase the intake valve temperature, at least temporarily, since, 35 surprisingly, it was found that any carbon deposits possibly present are removed at temperatures above 380° C. To this end, the intake valve unit, which comprises, among other components, the intake valves 20 and the valve stem guide 28, is designed with means that hinder heat dissipation in 40 such a way that increased surface temperatures of more than 380° C. develop at least in the area of the neck 68 of the intake valves 20 in at least one predetermined region of the load characteristic diagram 74 of the internal combustion engine. This is illustrated in FIG. 4. The intake valve 45 temperature is above 380° C. in the shaded region 112fc of the characteristic diagram. At these temperatures, carbon deposits on the intake valves 20 are removed. This region 112fc of the characteristic diagram occurs, for example, at speeds over 3,000 rpm, and in that speed range, extends 50 essentially to full load. Even if the internal combustion engine is not operated most of the time in the region 112fc during normal driving operation of a motor vehicle, nevertheless, carbon deposits that could adversely affect the operation of the internal combustion engine cannot build up, 55 since their removal in the shaded region 112fc of the characteristic diagram occurs very quickly. For example, operation of the internal combustion engine in this region 112fc of the characteristic diagram for a period of, for example, 20 min., is sufficient to remove even a thick layer of carbon 60 deposits. In other words, a routine expressway trip cleans the intake valves 20 sufficiently. In addition, this region of the characteristic diagram can be entered in the course of maintenance or repair work on the internal combustion engine in an automotive workshop. 65 


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4687770


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## jericks2 (Aug 10, 2011)

www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_322.pdf 

Check out that PDF. Go to page 13. Since EGR is the big cause of carbon build up by keeping the engine in the rpm/load area with no EGR you could do alot to prevent carbon build up. There are two operating modes without EGR, they are: Homogenous Lean and Homogenous. 

Keeping the engine in these modes all the time is not realistic but a few tweeks of your driving style to maximize the time spend in these modes could go a long way in slowing down the build up. 

P.S. Take a gander through the rest of the PDF. Its an awsome reference :thumbup:


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## dman4486 (Jun 22, 2011)

jericks2 said:


> www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_322.pdf


 is there a doc like this for the TFSI?


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

forma said:


> it was found that any carbon deposits possibly present are removed at temperatures above 380° C.


 And the Easter Bunny could possibly sneak in and clean your valves. 

IMHO, this Italian tune-up stuff is a load of bad lasagna. If high temp magically breaks up the deposits then this is even the wrong way to do it. Think about when the intake valves are the hottest. Is it at high RPM when lots of ambient temperature air is flowing over them or is it soon after you turn the engine off and all the heat from the engine transfers to the valves? 

Besides, I think removing carbon deposits from inside the combustion chamber is the intent of the Italian tune-up, not the oil gunk built up on the intake valves.


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## jericks2 (Aug 10, 2011)

dman4486 said:


> is there a doc like this for the TFSI?


 Yes... http://www.amazon.com/Chain-driven-...QFSQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317999236&sr=8-2 

However, I haven't been able to find a copy anywhere :thumbdown:


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## dman4486 (Jun 22, 2011)

Found lots to look through... even found the newer body style, but I don't think it is for post '08 models 

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/index_eng.php/ 

See 332 and 337 for FSI turbo.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Well, the car is back from the dealership. -Running like a champ from a cold start (outside temp 74 degrees). MUCH smoother. 

4x injectors at $116 each. 4x 'repair kit' (not sure what that is, but it's part number 06D998907) at $24 each also. The reset was small stuff apart from the labor, which ran to $750. 

DEFINITE improvement. -I'm going to be running Chevron exclusively from this point forward, unless I it DIRE emergency, in which case it will be a PARTIAL fill of anything other than Texaco or Shell. 

I do feel somewhat irritated that neither of the other cars seem to be so fussy in terms of needing this particular fuel additive without grinding to a shuddering halt, but if it really IS that much better, I will of course run them exclusively on Chevron/Shell/Texaco also. 

Haven't inspected the follower for wear yet, but should do so this evening... will report back.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

VWAddict said:


> Well, the car is back from the dealership. -Running like a champ from a cold start (outside temp 74 degrees). MUCH smoother.
> 
> 4x injectors at $116 each. 4x 'repair kit' (not sure what that is, but it's part number 06D998907) at $24 each also. The reset was small stuff apart from the labor, which ran to $750.
> 
> ...


 Repair kit = seals & clips for the injectors. Slightly ironic that audi will sell you new injectors without all the part required for install.


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## ruetzal (Dec 17, 2007)

Going to be doing this myself. My only concern is having my bases covered in case of an emergency. 

So does anyone know where you could possibly rent the special tool required to reinstall the injectors if one pops out with the intake when taking off? 

I know people have done it without the tool, but for my peace of mind would like to know it could be available if needed.


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

VWAddict said:


> Well, the car is back from the dealership. -Running like a champ from a cold start (outside temp 74 degrees). MUCH smoother.
> 
> 4x injectors at $116 each. 4x 'repair kit' (not sure what that is, but it's part number 06D998907) at $24 each also. The reset was small stuff apart from the labor, which ran to $750.
> 
> ...


 you're stoked! so, did they mention what they actually did? meaning, brush, solvent and a lot of elbow grease? 

man, a week after i got a new injector replaced at the dealership...today at lunch, flashing CEL at cold start-up again. great! another misfire. if it's the same cylinder, then it's probably something more serious. 

i wonder what??? i don't have the close to the symptoms you had but i do have uneven vibration & a bit of rough idle on cold start-ups...and of course, random misfire.


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

ruetzal said:


> Going to be doing this myself. My only concern is having my bases covered in case of an emergency.
> 
> So does anyone know where you could possibly rent the special tool required to reinstall the injectors if one pops out with the intake when taking off?
> 
> I know people have done it without the tool, but for my peace of mind would like to know it could be available if needed.



Honestly you should be fine, no tool is needed for reinstalling. I've put 12 in and never had one not pop right in. I actually can't even understand why a tool would be needed. The injector comes out hole in the head and one goes back in. It's not like the hole shrinks between removal and installation. Besides you have to clean the carbon out of holes after you remove them so they pop right back in. You just have to be aware when you are tapping them back in. I used a small plastic hammer and made sure I tapped them squarely.


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

crew219 said:


> Repair kit = seals & clips for the injectors. Slightly ironic that audi will sell you new injectors without all the part required for install.


Don't they new ones come with seals installed? Are the clips what is needed from the kit?


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

Uber-A3 said:


> Honestly you should be fine, no tool is needed for reinstalling. I've put 12 in and never had one not pop right in. I actually can't even understand why a tool would be needed. The injector comes out hole in the head and one goes back in. It's not like the hole shrinks between removal and installation. Besides you have to clean the carbon out of holes after you remove them so they pop right back in. You just have to be aware when you are tapping them back in. I used a small plastic hammer and made sure I tapped them squarely.


If it comes out, you should be installing a new Teflon seal. You wouldn't want that **** leaking. I did the seals on one or two of my injectors which popped out. It's the hardest part of the whole dealy. I just slid the seal over a small socket that had a nice taper on the end and was the same size as my injector. Once it was on the socket, I put it tip-to-tip with the injector and slid the seal straight onto the body and into its groove. It will be a little loose on the injector body, which will help it to seal in the hole. Just be sure not to pinch it when you slide it in. :wave:


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## cldub (Jul 2, 2010)

Rob Cote said:


> . Just be sure not to pinch it when you slide it in. :wave:


That's what she said!


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## ruetzal (Dec 17, 2007)

Uber-A3 said:


> Honestly you should be fine, no tool is needed for reinstalling. I've put 12 in and never had one not pop right in. I actually can't even understand why a tool would be needed. The injector comes out hole in the head and one goes back in. It's not like the hole shrinks between removal and installation. Besides you have to clean the carbon out of holes after you remove them so they pop right back in. You just have to be aware when you are tapping them back in. I used a small plastic hammer and made sure I tapped them squarely.





Rob Cote said:


> If it comes out, you should be installing a new Teflon seal. You wouldn't want that **** leaking. I did the seals on one or two of my injectors which popped out. It's the hardest part of the whole dealy. I just slid the seal over a small socket that had a nice taper on the end and was the same size as my injector. Once it was on the socket, I put it tip-to-tip with the injector and slid the seal straight onto the body and into its groove. It will be a little loose on the injector body, which will help it to seal in the hole. Just be sure not to pinch it when you slide it in. :wave:


thanks guys much appreciated!


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## KCMTNBIKER (Jun 23, 2002)

VWAddict said:


> Correct.
> 
> Catch cans fill up more rapidly in the cooler termperatures because vapors condense more readily in cooler temps... basic physics.
> 
> ...


X2 - I have a catch can and I never empty it in the summer as it doesn't get anything in it. In the winter, I have to empty it once a week. So for summer driving, I don't think it does a bit of good, all the vapors just pass on through as normal. 

I'm leaving it on for now as it doesn't hurt anything but honestly, worst $250.00 I've spent.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

KCMTNBIKER said:


> X2 - I have a catch can and I never empty it in the summer as it doesn't get anything in it. In the winter, I have to empty it once a week. *So for summer driving, I don't think it does a bit of good, all the vapors just pass on through as normal. *
> 
> I'm leaving it on for now as it doesn't hurt anything but honestly, worst $250.00 I've spent.


Wouldn't the water vapor it is catching in the winter actually be better sent through the engine? If anything wouldn't it help clean the valves? Probably not enough to make much of a difference but can't see any reason to stop this small amount of vapor.


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## KCMTNBIKER (Jun 23, 2002)

dmorrow said:


> Wouldn't the water vapor it is catching in the winter actually be better sent through the engine? If anything wouldn't it help clean the valves? Probably not enough to make much of a difference but can't see any reason to stop this small amount of vapor.


I've wondered that same thing myself. The small amount of water/fuel vapor might actually help keep the valves clean (er).


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## munkeeboi83 (Dec 30, 2010)

Does anyone have a write up, diagram or youtube video on how to SeaFoam a 2.0T FSI engine?

I have and 2006 Audi A3 2.0T I know I should probably spend $500-1000 to get a BG Intake Cleaning like some people have mentioned in the previous replies (taking apart the whole head and steam cleaning everything) but I have some other more major things to take care of first.


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## Gbeav (Jun 12, 2010)

forma said:


> no need to go above 4000 rpm
> 
> just above 3000 rpm for about 20 minutes is what the vag engineers recommended for the FSI engines.
> 
> this could be accomplished by driving on the highway/parkway in 5th gear.


That's my 6th gear at 120 kph


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## Rob Cote (Dec 6, 2006)

munkeeboi83 said:


> Does anyone have a write up, diagram or youtube video on how to SeaFoam a 2.0T FSI engine?


Pull out your intake air temp sensor. You'll find it, I think, on the intake pipe just before the throttle body? It was a while ago since I did mine, and my memory isn't quite what it used to be. You'll feed it into the intake air stream here via a small hose and needle (a la basketball pump). The needle is just to help regulate flow. You don't want it to suck in too much too fast. You'll want 2 people for this. Once you're set up with the SeaFoam can at the ready and your hose setup, have your friend start the car and try their best to regulate the idle. It'll have a huge leak, so it's going to idle rough. Once they can get it fairly stable, feed about 1/3-1/2 of the can in via the hose. Reinstall the IAT and let it run for a few minutes until most of the white smoke is gone. It will burn your eyes out of their sockets so make sure you're well ventilated. After that, shut the car down and change the oil and filter. Then you should be good to go.

It's worthy to note here that if you're trying to do this to save scrubbing gunk off your intake valves, don't bother. It won't do much for you. I did it AFTER i pulled my intake off and cleaned everything by hand. It was just a little extra to make sure any chunks I might have missed got blown out. 

HTH


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