# FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*EURO V6TDI In U.S. - First Review! * By: R.J. O'Connor
(updated with U.S. arrival date)








SUV’s are a popular target of a vocal minority of people who don’t like them. They don’t like their size or the fact that most SUV’s don’t exactly ‘sip’ fuel. These people would just like them to just disappear. That isn’t going to happen! SUV’s continue to fly off showroom floors, despite the rocket ride gas prices have been on lately.








*The V6TDI, V6 & V8 Powered Family Members*
I will concede “fuel and economy” are two words you don’t usually put together when describing most SUV’s, but that’s changing and Volkswagen has a tremendous opportunity to take the lead in that area with its TOUAREG V6TDI. The clean-diesel powered 3.0 liter V6 is already running around on the streets of Europe. Those of us here in the U.S. are really missing out.








There are so many things to like about this engine and using words like “smooth,” “powerful,” “torquey” and “quiet” just don’t do this vehicle justice. In the spirit of disclosure, I own a V6 TOUAREG and am very interested in the V6TDI. The ability to pass everything, including a gas station, definitely has its appeal for me.
In June of 2005, after Len Hunt, Executive Vice President of Volkswagen of America, responded to a specific thread inside the Car Lounge forum of VW Vortex. Len was really interested in hearing what VW enthusiasts have to say about the vehicles, the company and what can be done to make the ownership experience better. 
At the end of June a “little birdie” called me to say a V6TDI was in the Denver-metro area for high altitude testing. I saw an opportunity and took it! I asked Len if it would be possible have the V6TDI test vehicle go on our rally and if I could take it? Imagine the ‘shock and awe’ that happened with Len said he could do it. I was blown away! Len said he would send one of the V6TDI test mules in Michigan to Colorado for our annual off-road rally. After picking myself up off the floor, it was game time!
After getting all the advancer info about the prototype engine management software and concerns about engine performance in the mountains, the V6TDI was shipped and on July 21st I picked it up at my dealership. 








*Delivery Day At Gebhardt VW in Boulder*
‘Aircooled’ and ‘DenverBill’ were there too. It could only be called Christmas in July for a bunch of car geeks! 








The first thing we did was fire it up. Immediately, we knew this is one special vehicle. Not only was the “Black Magic” paint job nice, the lack of noise from the engine left us all jaw dropped. There was no smoke and nearly zippo for exhaust odor. Americans are so used to hearing the banging, clatter, smoking and stinking of diesel engines from U.S. automakers that when/if they get a taste of the V6TDI, they will have an entirely new appreciation for what clean-diesel power can be like… in a passenger vehicle.
Yes, we went over this thing with a fine toothed comb. This vehicle is completely Euro spec with the exception of the instrument cluster that was swapped out for us Yanks. You gotta know how fast you’re going in this thing… trust me!








First thing you notice are the adaptive bi-xenon headlights. The lights are completely different from the xenons on American TOUAREGs.








The ‘flash-to-pass’ feature is xenon. There’s obviously new technology that gives out a full blast of the xenons when you flash ‘em. There is also a halogen cornering light on the outside edge of the turn signal. 








This comes on when making slow speed turns and when the turn signal is on at a stop. It’s a nice touch. The xenons on this vehicle produce a much better spread of light in front and to the sides of the vehicle. Even the high beams produce a blanket of light similar to, if not better, than those who have the ‘six light salute’ vag’d on their TOUAREGs.
The adaptive part of the light show in front of you takes a little getting used to. It’s not everyday you take a curve on the road and the lights move to light up where you’re going rather than showing you where you’re at. Adaptive headlights are said to be coming on the 2007 models.








*Solar Sunroof*
The V6TDI was also equipped with the solar sunroof. While this is a cool feature (especially in the summer months), don’t get excited because I’m told this option is NOT coming to the U.S. You can’t open the interior sunshade on the solar sunroof and people here like to look at the sky in their car. Rhetorical question here: Shouldn’t people be looking through the glass in front of them, not above them when they’re driving?








There was also the driver’s side mirror. I like to call it the “fish-eye.” It eliminates blind spots very nicely, but this too takes some getting used to as the image is a little distorted on the outer edge. You can get this part separately for your U.S. TOUAREG. The info is not hard to find on Vortex.








The V6TDI was equipped with the TV tuner in the NAV, but again, this little feature isn’t coming stateside either. We wished we would have had more time to play with this feature.








*Entering American Basin*
The V6TDI was filled with all the other goodies we get in the U.S., like power seats, air suspension and a rear locking diff. It was also packing the “electronic sway bar disconnects.” Read a little further for my thoughts on those.
Let’s talk performance!








This buggy scoots! I noticed about a second of turbo lag when jumping on the gas from a dead stop. Some of this may have to do with the prototype engine management software in the vehicle. I found after a couple of days behind the wheel, if you start off the line with a little bit of pedal, rather than “flooring it;” the turbo lag issue goes away. Once that turbo kicks in… hold on for the ride my friends! The V6TDI likes to move out and if you don’t pay attention, you’ll be slamming on the brakes quickly for an unexpected conversation with your local “ticket writer.” 
The V6TDI has more pull than the gas-V8. In 'Euro' form the torque is rated at 369lb. ft. And… this engine likes to keep pulling. Even at higher freeway speeds, when you hit the gas, this little nomad will easily sail passed the century mark and keep going! I will admit, out in the middle of nowhere Colorado with plenty of wide-open blacktop, I did sample its speed capability. I confess right now, I chickened out at 120mph. But, the V6TDI was very willing to go where this man wasn’t!








Off-road, the V6TDI is just like every TOUAREG and even better in some respects. It climbs like a mountain goat! 








During some of our mountain climbs, we occassionally heard a very entertaining sound. Step on the gas just enough to get the turbo spooled up and we'd get a sound like Curly from the Three stooges. We all got a good laugh out of it. There wasn't anything wrong with the vehicle and performance wasn't impacted. The sound went away once the V6TDI was in LOW range.
















At altitude...
















... engine braking and the Hill Descent software in the V6TDI are far superior to what’s in the V6-gasser. My V6, on steep downhill slopes, sometimes makes me nervous as engine braking is weak and the HDC is totally inconsistent. The V6TDI on the other hand, handled these conditions with stunning precision. 








Even on some of the switchbacks of Corkscrew Pass, where the drop-offs had a blood vessel busting pucker factor, the V6TDI took it on as if it was the king of the hill. 
















And… to be very clear… it was!
During the rockier part of our journeys, I had several chances to use the Electronic Sway Bar Disconnects. You immediately know when the disconnect happens.








You’ll hear the click and feel a “floating” feeling, as if the entire vehicle is now sitting on the air bladders of the suspension. I still managed to get wheels into the air and don’t know how I feel about the system. I’d say, if it were an inexpensive option, might as well get it… it won’t hurt. If it’s a pricey option, leave the option box unchecked.








*Descent Into Telluride - Imogene Pass*
The only negative… and it’s a small one at that… was on extended downhill slopes. On our ride down to Telluride, everyone got a whiff of strong diesel smell. A buildup of unburned diesel and the prototype engine management software is probably the cause. Even with this situation, the performance of the V6TDI is so impressive; we don’t deduct any brownie points.








Equipped with Servotronic steering, the V6TDI feels like it is a thousand pounds lighter. For 2006, the steering system is standard on V8's. On the issue of the servo-steering, like the VW marketing peeps say… “drive it, you’ll get it.” I like the system a lot.
To answer the two questions most everyone has… what was the gas mileage like and how much is it going to cost? I can answer the gas question and only speculate on price. During the 13-days I had the V6TDI, gas mileage averaged between 25 & 28mpg. I wasn’t driving like my grandmother either.








During one stretch of our road trip home from the rally, the MFI indicated 33.4mpg. Me Likey! We drove 354 miles home and only burned a ½ a tank of fuel. That’s nearly 28mpg my friends and those numbers will make any SUV owner smile like they’ve just hit the gas pump lottery. As for price, I would suspect the V6TDI to price out below or right around the price of a V8. That’s my guess… not VW’s. 








*V6TDI Goes For A Swim - Imogene Pass*
So, when is this amazing vehicle coming to the United States? VW has already given the http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for the U.S., and it will be arriving in early 2009.
When it comes to the U.S., if VW plays its cards right, they could have a vehicle flying off showroom floors faster then they can make ‘em. And, considering how VW has been doing financially in North America, I think that’s a problem VW would actually enjoy!
We did add a couple of "accessories" to the V6TDI -- for the engineers back in Germany. I'm told they enjoyed it a lot!
















Oh, one more thing… I can’t wait to see this picture happen, having one in my garage... that's mine, not on loan from VW!!!
















In closing, if you have a chance to take part in this year's Colorado Off-Road Rally, you gotta do it. It's such a good time and you meet the best people in the world!!
*RALLY DATES: JULY 23 - JULY 27TH*








*The 2005 Group At The Top Of Imogene Pass*

Photo Credits: Mrs. TREGinginCO, Aircooled, Mrs. Aircooled, Rickanns, Hapster



_Modified by TREGinginCO at 10:17 AM 11-20-2007_


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

Excellent writeup. Love the rear window stickers!


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## spikeital (May 21, 2001)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

Great write up and great pics.


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## Tuarisi (Sep 29, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

TREGingCO
excellent review!!! will be great when they bring this car over here but my sights are getting one and takin it staright to Kenya!! And i can see i will thouroughly enjoy trailblazing through the bush


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## SeaTreg (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (Tuarisi)*

Thank you for a well written, and informative article. You are a true credit to all of the Touareg's fans and owners!


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## simax (Dec 26, 2004)

Good job, sir.








If we could only make everyone in the US how much better is the diesel...


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## bulahee (Jan 20, 2005)

The 'Curly' joke really cracked me. Great writeup. The MPG is really unbelievable! Hope its price can stay around $1~2K above a US gas V6.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (bulahee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bulahee* »_The 'Curly' joke really cracked me. Great writeup. The MPG is really unbelievable! Hope its price can stay around $1~2K above a US gas V6.
 
Dreamer. Pricing in Europe is 2500 Euros ($3125) above the V6 and I would expect that VWOA will push that difference even higher by adding more options to the V6 TDI than the gas V6.


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## SeaTreg (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: (spockcat)*

I think if they could keep it priced at, or just slightly below the V8, it would be worth it! We'll see what happens, if and when it ever arrives here.


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## GLI_Man (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

Thanks, RJ.


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## ksand (May 17, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

Great post! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Since the V6TDI was Euro-spec, did it have the pitch & roll indicators enabled?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (ksand)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ksand* »_Great post! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Since the V6TDI was Euro-spec, did it have the pitch & roll indicators enabled?

These don't exist on Euro spec Touaregs either. They were never enabled because VW never found suitable, low cost sensors for this feature.


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## Jentregs (May 10, 2004)

Very nice! I enjoyed reading and viewing the pictures! Well done!


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

Very nice write-up. Did you get a chance to look under the hood? One of the very few things about the V10 I don't like is how crammed everything is under the hood. I was wondering if the V6 was a little roomier?


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (idiot2)*

The V6TDI has much more room under the hood. It's very similar to the gas powered V6 engine compartment.


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## Caribmon71 (Apr 22, 2005)

Most excellent write up! You could write for one of the car mags. One question, though. Is there any reason one would want to purchase a V8 gas model once the V6 tdi shows up?
I mean, if for about the same price of a V8, you could get a car with more torque - which, I supose, yields better acceleration and power - and better fuel economy which burns cheaper fuel, then what's the point of going with a V8? Sounds like it may actually hurt V8 sales. Is this something VW wants?
Is there an advantage to the V8 over the V6 tdi or vice versa? Just wondering.


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## GotEuroCorrado (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! will start saving now..


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## lip (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

Nice review -Sounds like the perfect Touareg. VW should make a deal with the devil to get more diesels over here. 
28mpg !!, 369lb/ft of tq- For V8 prices? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
the automotive equivalent to the Swiss Army Knife


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## 72mako (Jan 7, 2005)

Nice write up, can't wait to swap my v6 gas for the tdi


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (Caribmon71)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Caribmon71* »_Most excellent write up! You could write for one of the car mags. One question, though. Is there any reason one would want to purchase a V8 gas model once the V6 tdi shows up?


At the Touareg meeting in Frankfurt there were over 100 Touaregs. I know of only 1 that was a V8. Of course, diesel fuel is also much less expensive in Europe too, and the V8 is actually much more expensive than the V6 TDI, so that is a triple savings; initial cost, better mpg, and lower fuel prices.


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## mdjak (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (72mako)*

That was very well done. I read it with rapt attention and emailed it to friends.
One thing I didn't like is the "second and a half" turbo lag. That is verrrry long. I've had turbocharged cars in the past and turbo lag is not an enjoyable feature. That's something they need to work on, perhaps getting the lag down to a half second.
And then there's the part of me that wants the V10. Just like my pal Spocky has.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (mdjak)*

I really think the turbo lag is something that will go away and it was specific to this particular vehicle. Like I said, it was Euro spec emissions, running prototype engine software on U.S. diesel fuel. And, once you have the "rolling start" done ---- weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee is it fun!!


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

I see Osram Diadem turn signal bulbs.
the V6, iirc 3.0L newly developed for Audi models. THis differs from the V10 and the 2.5LV6 TDI as it's a common rail motor, instead of the PD.

....I need to know the pricetag if it's coming......because it would be very difficult to determine which to get in a few years.... Passat TDI (when it comes out) or the T-reg


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## Sunil (Sep 24, 1999)

*Re: (nathankaufman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nathankaufman* »_Diesel engine's don't engine brake. They don't have throttle bodies.

Perhaps VW incorporated an exhaust brake? I'm curious about this as well.


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## Professor Gascan (Sep 11, 2002)

Great write up! If VW can get these onto North American soil, there'll be another T-Reg in my garage, no question about it.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_
....I need to know the pricetag if it's coming......because it would be very difficult to determine which to get in a few years.... Passat TDI (when it comes out) or the T-reg


Expect it to be at least $45k or more and no discounts. Demand will be very strong. The first ones might even be sold at a premium.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (Professor Gascan)*

Engine braking has become a bit of a generic term for an engine's ability to maintain/control low speed in these types of situations. In this case, the term engine braking is used to describe an ability of the vehicle... not a physical piece of equipment.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (Sunil)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nathankaufman* »_Diesel engine's don't engine brake. They don't have throttle bodies.


_Quote, originally posted by *Sunil* »_Perhaps VW incorporated an exhaust brake? I'm curious about this as well.

I felt the same on the offroad course in Frankfurt driving the V6 TDI. It is a combination of:
*Hill Descent Assist*
Off-road drivers know that one of the most treacherous hazards they face is traversing a steep downhill that is covered with loose rocks or dirt. With the Touareg, the driver removes his or her foot from the accelerator at a speed of less than 12 mph (20 km/h) to initiate hill descent assist (HDA). HDA uses
controlled brake applications to ensure that the vehicle does not go out of control while descending. The driver can then focus on steering.
In summary, HDA intervenes:
• at speeds less than 12 mph (20 km/h)
• on slopes greater than 20%
• during forward and reverse driving
• when ESP is active
HDA intervenes, for example, when one wheel loses traction. Using the ABS pump, the brakes are applied at the wheels that have good traction. This prevents acceleration and keeps the vehicle speed constant. When the process is complete, the vehicle returns to the previous driving speed.
*Engine Braking Assist*
The purpose of engine braking assist (EBA) is to prevent the wheels from skidding due to compression braking of the engine if the accelerator is lifted very suddenly or a low gear is engaged. EBA reduces any wheel slip that could occur when braking to a low, non-critical value. This is especially useful on loose, off-road surfaces where skids can occur.
source: Volkswagen Touareg Sourcebook


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

My car is supposed to have EBA. It's very transparent. Though...in rally-crossing... never skidded though


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## YllwTRB (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: (GT17V)*

All I can say is


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## PrincessVivian (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: (GT17V)*

Excellent post - awesome pix!!!
Drive on,
PV


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## VWinA (Oct 20, 1999)

*Re: (mdjak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mdjak* »_That was very well done. I read it with rapt attention and emailed it to friends.
One thing I didn't like is the "second and a half" turbo lag. That is verrrry long. I've had turbocharged cars in the past and turbo lag is not an enjoyable feature. That's something they need to work on, perhaps getting the lag down to a half second.
And then there's the part of me that wants the V10. Just like my pal Spocky has.

The V10 was said to have such a heavy engine that it affected ride and handling characteristics...


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## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (VWinA)*

Excellent article. Having already been set on doing whatever it took to trade my V8 in on a V6TDi if/when they come to NA this has done nothing but to further seal the deal.


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## GiVeMeAuDi (Jun 6, 2005)

*Re: (Nefarious1.8t)*

Hey, i am dying to see this, what happened to the pics? they are all red-X's


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## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

nice write up. it was very complete and answered all of my questions http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DenverBill (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

Great job, R.J.! I believe you have a future in journalism, or broadcast.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (DenverBill)*

The most of the pictures disappeared on me too.... I have them stored in Club Touareg and I'm wondering if the problems on that site are the cause. Checking for alternatives.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

Good News Everyone,
Thanks to Chris "Aircooled" -- the photos are now hosted on his site and there shouldn't be any more problems with viewing them.
Chris, you 'da man!!!


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## joness0154 (Feb 20, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_Good News Everyone,
Thanks to Chris "Aircooled" -- the photos are now hosted on his site and there shouldn't be any more problems with viewing them.
Chris, you 'da man!!!









Good writeup man! This Touareg sounds like a nice ride, and this is coming from a GTI driver


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## depiry (Feb 16, 2005)

Great review, does the tdi have 2 batteries like the V10?Are the brakes V8 or V10 size?


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (depiry)*

There appeared to be a second battery in the area where the spare tire would go. European TOUAREG's apparently don't come with spare tires. There looked to be a battery cover back there, but I didn't look under it.


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## grizzfan (Feb 5, 2005)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

Super write-up RJ. I need one here in Montana right now!!
Tom


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## 2YY4U (Jul 29, 2004)

Nice article, can't wait to have my own!


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## treg4574 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (TREGinCO)*

Very very nice.





















for you.


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## Eric Dow (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (treg4574)*

OUTSTANDING Writeup!! I'm almost crying that we didn't bump our vacation back 2 weeks and just sold the Rialta and brought our Treg out for the 2nd annuall...







REALLY missed not being there before, now I'm litterally in tears...
Next year, maybe we'll be back and with a TDI under the hood








VW, TAKE MY MONEY NOW AND GET ME A TDI Touareg or Q7 ASAP!!! NO, I can't afford the V10


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## ianlee77 (Jan 1, 2002)

I am thinking of putting the new headlights on if they'll fit the current model after some VAG work.


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## doolin98 (May 16, 2002)

*VW Goldmine*

Great Writeup. 
This Touareg would be a goldmine for VW. An SUV that gets close to 30 miles to the gallon. My next car will be a diesel. This is the engine I want. Do you hear me VW? Put this engine in a Touareg, Passat, or something.....


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: VW Goldmine (doolin98)*

bump


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## NovRus (Oct 29, 2002)

*Re: VW Goldmine (TREGinginCO)*

I can't wait!! 
QUESTION:
How was it running on U.S. diesel? Wouldn't the air cleaning system go to hell?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: VW Goldmine (NovRus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NovRus* »_QUESTION:
How was it running on U.S. diesel? Wouldn't the air cleaning system go to hell?

Air cleaning system? The air cleaners don't meet the fuel at any point. I assume you mean the catalytic converter and particle filter. 
Speaking from experience, I haven't had any issues with the catalytic converters in my V10. I can't speak about the particle filters as they have only been introduced in Europe so far. I have seen one closeup and I assume that VW has done enough testing to be certain that it will last for the duration of the legally required emissions period.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

The Particulate filters require the use of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.
Our "Low" Sulfur diesel damages Particulate filters


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_The Particulate filters require the use of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.
Our "Low" Sulfur diesel damages Particulate filters

Then this is why we aren't getting the V6 tdi (or I guess the V10 tdi) until ULSD is fully introduced in the USA.
As i said above, I've seen the filter, up close. It really is a filter. No passages like a catalytic converter. I guess if our normal diesel plugs the filter, then it is shot. 
I wonder if the V6 tdis that are being tested here have the filter installed? TREGinginCO do you have any info on this? Did you check for the particle filter?


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (spockcat)*

I did not check the particulate filter, but can get information on that. The V6TDI I had has been sent back to Germany, so I'd bet all of that is being checked out.
And to answer a previous post... we don't have ULSD in the U.S. in wide distribution. Once we do have it, it's not expected to cause PF problems.


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## ButteBeautie (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

RJ,
Outstanding write-up and accompanying photos. Everything I read in your piece certainly agreed with what we witnessed in our too short time with you on the rally.
Congratulations on your excellent work with VW ... and sharing it with us all.
Seems you must have received several offers from the various car mags by now ... your style was fresh ... and FUN!
Best regards to you and Kay.
Jerry & Mary Alice Smith
Crested Butte, CO


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (ButteBeautie)*

New week bump!!


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

I added this to the FAQs this AM also.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (spockcat)*

Spock,
You are the man!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## treg4574 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

I so want to drive a V6 TDI


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (treg4574)*

Yes you do!!!!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

Will the reliability be as good as the gasoline V6 and V8?


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## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Then this is why we aren't getting the V6 tdi (or I guess the V10 tdi) until ULSD is fully introduced in the USA.


There is not a single refinery in the USA that can produce currently ULSD. Only one is on the drawing boards - and for completion in late 2009. 
VW has not got a single chance in 10,000,000 to get this fully into the USA. Moreover, the Europeans do not want it either. This is yet another costly technological and marketing failure for VW. (Can you morph the word Touareg into Phaeton?)
It demonstrates clearly, yet again, that VW has not a clue about its US customers. It has introduced products that few want (Phaeton), that do not work (Touareg) that cannot be sold (T-V10) and now products that cannot be fuelled.
Maybe if Kerkorian can buy them up (less likely now that Germany, Inc. member, Porsche, is buying its stake in VW) he can put a stop to this ugly incompetance.
If the state of Lower Saxony did not hold a blocking majority in VW, it would have been broken up and/or sold because of its intense, sprawling management incompetance.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (trexer001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trexer001* »_There is not a single refinery in the USA that can produce currently ULSD. Only one is on the drawing boards - and for completion in late 2009. 

No research for this statement.
http://www.conocophillips.com/...x.htm
Conoco Phillips indicates they have it available in several markets. It is DOE and EPA required by 2006. Will it be everywhere by 2006, most likely not. But I'll bet it will be in the major markets in 2006. 

_Quote, originally posted by *trexer001* »_
VW has not got a single chance in 10,000,000 to get this fully into the USA. Moreover, the Europeans do not want it either. This is yet another costly technological and marketing failure for VW. (Can you morph the word Touareg into Phaeton?)

What are you talking about here; the V6 TDI? If so, you are crazy. They sell like hot cakes in Europe at a higher price (base MSRP = 46,050 Euros) than I paid for my V10. The US will be lucky to get any because the demand in Europe is so high.


----------



## V10 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (trexer001)*

trexer001 - You always seem to have a negative spin on things.







Low Sulfur Diesel is not VW's problem it is ours...we lag way behind European countries because our multi-trillion dollar fuel industry spend monies only when they have enough pressure on them to do such… as from our Government in the form of mandates for change over to less polluting fuels...of course, there are technologies...particulate traps/filters that have been used for many years to reduce environmentally harmful emissions...VW and Mercedes and others have changed the day of slow dirty diesel engines into powerful rather clean power plants. These technologies require cleaner fuels to perform to their max but are still capable of running, at least for some reasonable period of time, on 40 Centane High Sulfur fuels…
In Europe, they have had considerably higher fuel costs/taxes and consequently have a much higher demand for the diesels. The Europeans can enjoy most of these high tech diesels because they are already in the future vs. the US which contradicts itself all the time by setting emission standards that allow one toxin but restrict another. At the same time allowing millions of 18-wheelers, ships… to continue to pollute for years before mandating new fuel standards.
The V10 is a very desirable vehicle and the V6 TDI even more so at the more realistic price point...the V10 and the V6 TDI's will pollute less than many other "acceptable" vehicles on the roads as are used in our trucking industry. VW can sell as many of these vehicles as they export to the US but we are not prepared to allow them as our Governments & States regulations won't permit them...So this is not a VW issue it is our problem that we as a country so far behind...look at the crap the Americans make...if you want to blast any auto manufacturer blast away at our own for being so far behind and making cheap crap...NOW there's an opinion for you








I won't disagree with you regarding the Phaeton however, when there is direct competition with the Audi A8 in the same class and BMW 7 series, VW better have something out of this world to compete...VW does not have the high end appeal because they are basically just entering this market with such products and we'll have to see what the future holds...If VW is able to bring the US more Diesel Models, as they offer in Europe, we would be better off all around...but again, we are a big part of the problem, living with old and dirty fuels and not reacting quickly enough (IMHO) to get the job done...in 5 years this may be a mute point but today we as a country are way behind.
I am sooo... glad/lucky to be one of the few to own a V10 and I am grateful to VW for taking the time to try and get it through our countries antiquated system and on our local roads....I can hopefully look forward to even better performance from it when the low sulfur fuels finally arrive here...
Anyway, trexer001...Don't you think some of the blame should be put on our own side of the pond?!








trexer001 - You seem to be a very unhappy person...after all these are just automobiles and there are many other things you could focus your energy on such as how cancer impacts one out of 4 in the US and we spend more money on automobiles and fuel than anything close to what we spend on cancer research....at least VW is trying to bring to the market new technologies with state of the art powerplants to conserve energy and not waste it...there will always be problems with new technologies and products so even if some Touareg owners have to suffer there will be many more who benefit...what ever the ratio is there are far more road worthy Touaregs on the road then not...there are some real lemons but many more with just annoyance issues...some more than others...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GiVeMeAuDi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trexer001* »_
Moreover, the Europeans do not want it either. This is yet another costly technological and marketing failure for VW. ... It (the V6 TDI) demonstrates clearly, yet again, that VW has not a clue about its US customers. 

Trexor, you are way off base and very much uninformed. The V6 TDI Touareg is the fastest selling (most popular) Touareg in Europe, and Phaetons with the V6 TDI engine account for over 90% of Phaeton production. In fact, after VW introduced the Phaeton with the V6 TDI engine in Europe last summer, they had to add a second shift at the Phaeton plant in Dresden to keep up with demand - because this engine, which has amazing fuel economy, opened up ownership of the Phaeton to a whole new group of purchasers.
Michael


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Whose ass do we have to kiss to get the V6TDI here quicker???


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

I don't understand why you gave it back. You should have bought a V6 of the same color and switched the plates, badging and VIN markings on it. Then returned the V6 with a full tank of gas. They wouldn't have noticed anything until they fueled it.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (spockcat)*

VW would have "blitzkrieged" my sorry self!!!!










_Modified by TREGinginCO at 6:09 PM 9-30-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_Michael, Whose ass do we have to kiss to get the V6TDI here quicker?

I'm not sure why VW has appeared to be slow in bringing their vast range of diesel engines to North America. They're not alone, though - well over 50% of all VW, Mercedes, and BMW cars sold in Europe are diesels, yet diesels seem to be a niche item in North America.
I've heard several reasons put forth by others, I don't know which of these, if any, are correct, but perhaps others may have more factual information and can provide some insight. Here is what I have heard (from various sources, rumors, whatever):
*1)* The quality of the diesel fuel sold in North America is not consistent across the continent, this causes problems with the reliable function of these advanced diesel engines.
*2)* North American buyers don't like to buy diesel powered cars, excepting a small group of rather devoted followers (the Golf / Jetta TDI crowd).
*3)* North America diesel service stations don't cater to automobiles - often the driver has to pull up at an oily, dirty diesel pump, get diesel fuel all over the soles of their shoes (thus tracking it into their car), and get diesel fuel all over their hands from the dirty nozzle.
*4)* North American emission testing regulations don't favour diesel engines.
*5)* The North American car importers (VW, BMW, MB) are all asleep at the switch and are missing a great opportunity.
Like I said earlier- I don't know what is fact and what is fiction. Personally, I like diesels - 6 of the last 8 VWs I have owned have been diesels, starting with a diesel Rabbit in 1979. If I could have ordered the V10 TDI in my Phaeton, I would have. Next month, I need to get a new Golf to replace my Swiss Golf, and I will get one with a diesel engine in it.
Michael


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

All of the points you made seem to sum up the reality we're dealing with here in the U.S.
Once again.... well done Watson!!!!


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## vwincident (Jul 3, 2004)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

I would love to see your write up and pictures in Volkswagen Driver Magazine....


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (vwincident)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwincident* »_I would love to see your write up and pictures in Volkswagen Driver Magazine....

That would be great, but probably not likely until VW can sell the V6 TDI in the US.


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## Eric Dow (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (4x4s)*

You would be surprised. If you gave permission to reprint, I would BET that it get's in there. They have done some Euro stuff in the past to hint at what might come over seas. If they are serious about the V6 TDI, they will print it








Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I was putting in ULSD into my '02 NB TDI two years ago. Southern Ca had it in production via ARCO back then, so I don't know why people say it's not in production?? It's just not in place across the country yet. The main driver as I understand it is that the older big rigs need the extra lubrication. They won't be able to run 300,000miles between rebuilds with ULSD... Oh well.. When they anounce, you can bet I'll have the pocket book out and ready to order!!


_Modified by Eric Dow at 11:46 AM 10-2-2005_


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## Ergo (Jul 7, 2005)

*Re: V6 TDI*

Thanks for the excellent info!








Problem is now I want one even more!








Please, please, please VW!








Oh, and while I'm fantasizing, make mine a LWB model!


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

Have you seen what the v6 TDI is capable of in the Phaeton:








Why would anyone bother with a hybrid when in a 4500 lb AWD car they can get 30 to 33 mpg?


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## Eric Dow (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (spockcat)*

Hehe, what about the V6 TDI WITH the same Hybrid tech that Dr P put into his 100km/1l Lupo? How about a Touareg that get's 50mpg city or highway and autostarts/stops the engine at idle and has enough Umpf in the electric to seamlessly start from engine off at idle??? Now THAT my friends is my new wet dream


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## bulahee (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: (spockcat)*

I think hybrid is great for city driving. But it's still a petro car on freeway.


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## Eric Dow (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (bulahee)*

That is correct for Hybrids that don't have sufficient power to keep up highway speeds and still get good MPG with thier Petro/Diesel motors







That was my point, with this motor being able to get 33mpg on the highway, add hybrid and you get 50+ in the city too







That would be a killer combo, no?


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## R5TDI (Jan 23, 2004)

Great review, i ordered the same.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (R5TDI)*

Bump.... new pictures added!!!!


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

Where's the snorkel?


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (aircooled)*

In my mouth!!!


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

Bump... it's back!!!


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rbeamis (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

What's back?


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (rbeamis)*

The review. Read read the very first post.


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## Gunship (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: V6 Tdi*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif A great write up.
Well you guys sure are lucky in the states.
If all goes well I will get my V6tdi in this week.
Sadly I am paying close to $90k (in SA !)








But enjoy - I will for sure.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: V6 Tdi (Gunship)*

Congrats on getting yours in about a week... we still have years to wait!!!


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## Gunship (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: V6 Tdi (TREGinginCO)*

Oh no !
I did not read page two and thought it would be out by now.
We are right hand drive - i am unsure if that helps. Oh and by the way it is not officially launched. ( http://www.vw.co.za )
I think mine is the first one as it is a "demo" with 500 km on the clock.
I must add we have quite a high standard list i.e. Full leather etc (I just know the UK specs and it starts of very low) like aircon works with parrafin etc








I see you opted for a 2006 Petrol (sorry gas)
Good luck with it. The wifes 2,0 Tdi Golf was just too fantatstic to ever buy another petrol car (gas)
Cheers,
Guns


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## mnunno (Jan 3, 2008)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

I have heard that the BlueTec engine will not run on biodiesel. What have you heard? Great review. How do I get on a waiting list for one?


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (mnunno)*

Not recommended by VW... but that's because there are apparently no set national standards for biodiesel and so VW will only warranty use of B5 for now.


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## 0320thGTI (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

Does early 09 mean late 2008







So when can we oder our very own v6TDI....


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (0320thGTI)*

No, it means early 09.


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## edisonr (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_No, it means early 09.

Our Jetta lease ends on October and I was hopping that the V6 TDI would be ready by then


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## treg4574 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_No, it means early 09.

So, will it come out as a very early model year 2010?


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (treg4574)*

It will be a 2009 model year vehicle. There is a complete redesign coming for the 2010MY --- but I'm a little skeptical of the picture floating around.


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## edisonr (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_It will be a 2009 model year vehicle. There is a complete redesign coming for the 2010MY --- but I'm a little skeptical of the picture floating around.

That's even worse !!!!!!


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_It will be a 2009 model year vehicle..

And this thread started in 2005! VW, where have you been? What have you been doing? Many other auto company will have diesels then too. VW should have been out with large volume diesels at least 2 years before everyone else.


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## setinhi (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (spockcat)*

Who'll be the lucky one to buy the V6 TDI a few months before an all-new Touareg comes out?
And, judging by VW's track record, the 2010 won't have the diesel available when it's introduced.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
And this thread started in 2005! VW, where have you been? What have you been doing? Many other auto company will have diesels then too. VW should have been out with large volume diesels at least 2 years before everyone else.










Agreed.


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## SUVA (Mar 13, 2005)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
And this thread started in 2005! VW, where have you been? What have you been doing? Many other auto company will have diesels then too. VW should have been out with large volume diesels at least 2 years before everyone else.









Particularly when the have them for the rest of the world.


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## TigerinColorado (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (SUVA)*

First off, I think the US EPA is responsible for the lack of diesels on the market at the moment. With their delay of a fuel change and yearly diesel requirements changing, it is no wonder manufacturers have just looked ahead to a time when these changes will stop...in 2009 it would appear.







At least the indiviual state requirements appear to be heading to a common ground.
The fact that RIGHT now, *at this very moment you could walk into a Mercedes-Benz dealership and get a 3.0L diesel engine in any R-Class, M-Class, or GL-Class* is sobering!







Kudos to M-B for jumping the ever changing hurdles put up by Caifornia and Company states. 
In addition, *since 2007 Jeep has been putting the identical 3.0L diesel engine (!) into their Grand Cherokee Limited and Overland*. For 2008 you can even get it in a more basic model aka Laredo!!! 
It is making it HARD to wait for the Touareg V6 TDI... especially when VW doesn't have hard dates and/or numbers.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (Tigerincarolina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tigerincarolina* »_
It is making it HARD to wait for the Touareg V6 TDI... especially when VW doesn't have hard dates and/or numbers.









VWoA does have hard dates for the arrival, they just haven't made it public yet. I'm hoping they will let me announce it.
As for hard numbers.. they have a rough idea, but market conditions over the next six or so months will have an impact on that.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (Tigerincarolina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tigerincarolina* »_First off, I think the US EPA is responsible for the lack of diesels on the market at the moment. With their delay of a fuel change and yearly diesel requirements changing, it is no wonder manufacturers have just looked ahead to a time when these changes will stop...in 2009 it would appear.







At least the indiviual state requirements appear to be heading to a common ground.
The fact that RIGHT now, *at this very moment you could walk into a Mercedes-Benz dealership and get a 3.0L diesel engine in any R-Class, M-Class, or GL-Class* is sobering!







Kudos to M-B for jumping the ever changing hurdles put up by Caifornia and Company states. 
In addition, *since 2007 Jeep has been putting the identical 3.0L diesel engine (!) into their Grand Cherokee Limited and Overland*. For 2008 you can even get it in a more basic model aka Laredo!!! 
It is making it HARD to wait for the Touareg V6 TDI... especially when VW doesn't have hard dates and/or numbers.









We have had the V10 TDI here in 2004, 2006 and 2007. The only reason why it wasn't here in 2005 is due to slow sales of 2004 models. No reason why the V6 TDI couldn't have been sold here too. Especially since MB had a similar model.


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## TigerinColorado (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (spockcat)*

Thanks for the feedback! 
V6TDI informant:







If VW truly had the dates lined up, I'd think they'd be promoting the upcoming V6 TDI with their rolling dieselution (sp?) 18 wheeler caravan.







Maybe they'll finally announce something at the NAIAS in Detroit? I hope to make it to Chicago in February...hope to see one there. Fingers crossed. Have you driven a 3.0L Jeep GC or ML320 or GL 320 just for comparison? Would be curious to hear your impression. They didn't have any (that I noticed) on the lot at Parker Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge but they sure seemed like a friendly dealership when I stopped by. Found a few Jeep dealers in Denver that actually have loaded 2007 Jeep GC's left over. I resisted a test drive, because I'd buy it!








Spockat: Still, most of the 2004+ diesels cannot be sold in California, Vermont, New Hampshire, etc... It sucks because losing the Cali market gives VW yet another massive reason NOT to bother with the V6 TDI (or the V10) for 2008 (yet again). SUV's were a bit exempt (if they weigh enough or some other such nonsense) by the EPA and only VW and M-B had the sedan diesels the past few years, but that is it. Right? Their diesel SUV's are a recent arrival. Oh, and FYI you can't get a GL320 CDI with the off road package!







Curses!








Must resist a loaded leftover 2007 Jeeper Grand 3.0L at thousands under MSRP.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (Tigerincarolina)*

I sure wish Len Hunt was still around, he might actually post to this thread to confirm VW intentions with this vehicle.
Instead, the current management seems to be sitting around with stinky thumbs.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (Tigerincarolina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tigerincarolina* »_
Spockat: Still, most of the 2004+ diesels cannot be sold in California, Vermont, New Hampshire, etc... 

The 2006 Touareg V10 TDI was CA legal (and perhaps the other states). Any 7500 mile+ vehicle is CA legal too. VW should have had 2006 V6 TDIs in the USA,


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## whammie (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (Tigerincarolina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tigerincarolina* »_
Spockat: Still, most of the 2004+ diesels cannot be sold in California, Vermont, New Hampshire, etc...









As Spockat mentioned the 2006 were 50 state legal!
CARB BIN LEVEL II went into effect for 2007 and the 2006's could not meet the NOx emission levels. That is why the 2007 and 2008's are not 50 state legal.


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## TigerinColorado (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (whammie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whammie* »_
As *Spockat mentioned the 2006 were 50 state legal!*
CARB BIN LEVEL II went into effect for 2007 and the 2006's could not meet the NOx emission levels. That is why the 2007 and 2008's are not 50 state legal.

No foolin'!!! Somehow I'm glad I missed that fact until now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Never felt better to be corrected I tell yah!








Off to research 2006 VW Touareg TDI's


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (Tigerincarolina)*

The 2006 was only allowed to be 50-state legal because of a special waiver that VW obtained. As far as the 2006 meeting emissions standards in those PITA states... it did not.


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (TREGinginCO)*

I can't believe VW is still twiddling it's thumbs on this! Don't get me wrong, the Touareg is nice, and so is the V10, but it's not worth $70,000. Who is going to pay that much? About 200 people probably, all VW enthusiasts. 
VW needs an AFFORDABLE fuel efficient option, and the V6 TDI is it. Time after time, VW keeps making mistakes through it's inaction. There was absolutely no excuse for the Rabbit to have been delayed *2.5 years* from it's introduction in Europe to it's introduction in the US. 
I love VW, but sometimes i want to slap them


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## Gunship (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (aircooled)*

I quickly read the well written report and I am glad that I promoted this as one of the best vehicles on the road today.
After 40k's with mine in all terrains and conditions including a 3 hour 180 km/h run I love this vehicle every time and I smile when I drive it.
One serious problem (in all T-Regs) after 2 years and 40k's : I hate the seats. I can not get a comphy seating position. Yeah I am 115kg but only 5 vt 10 and the wight sits in my beer stomack not the a$$








Enjoy the V6 wehn it arrives ! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## setinhi (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (Gunship)*

X5 diesels coming in fall 2008!
http://www.egmcartech.com/2008...fumes/


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## setinhi (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (setinhi)*

Audi is moving it's V6 diesel intro up to this year, to match BMW and Mercedes. 
http://www.egmcartech.com/2008...ected/


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## VegasMatt (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (setinhi)*

Nice! 10 less ponies than my 2005 3.2, but damn near double the torque. Mmmm...








Matt


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FIRST U.S. Review: TOUAREG V6TDI (setinhi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *setinhi* »_Audi is moving it's V6 diesel intro up to this year, to match BMW and Mercedes. 
http://www.egmcartech.com/2008...ected/

VW will probably push back their launch by 6 months just because.


----------

