# Ride height adjustment not working - suspension air leak?



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hello all,

I raise my car height whenever I am parking in a space that has a concrete wheel stop, in order to prevent my front bumper from scraping. In other words, I use the system almost every day. On Saturday morning I started my car, and got a red warning message saying something like "CAR IS TOO LOW". Of course, the first thing I did was say "Oh F***", thinking that one of my struts had failed. I turned off the car, turned it back on again and the error message was gone and has not returned since. I successfully cycled the ride height system from low (which is where the car seemed to be, though I'm positive I had left it in the high position the night before, as I almost always do) to high, and back to low. I got out of the car while doing this and think I heard a slight hissing sound, like an air leak. I cycled the system several times throughout the day, and it worked fine, but it did seem to take longer and longer to complete the cycle.

The red error message has not returned (yet?), but over the past few days the height adjustment system has gone from being slow to cycle, to now just refusing to go into the high mode. The car still drives great and sits perfectly level at what appears and feels to be the normal ride height. 

I do not have a VAG-COM, so I can't scan the car. Does this sound a like a strut failure? A leaking suspension air line? Something else? Is this an emergency that needs to be addressed immediately, before it gets worse, or can I just leave it this way for a few weeks until my schedule allows me to take the car into the shop for repair?

NOTE: My car is a late 2005 model and so has the newer struts and controller.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## SwissW12 (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi Ron,

when i got my Phaeton i sometimes got a suspension failure notice in the dash. However the car worked perfectly fine. I replaced the left battery and the problem has since stopped. A few weeks ago the front of the car sat lower then the back. I took it in for a recalibration and the car has been fine since. Mine is a 2004. My first suggestion is to check the left battery. Sound escaping when the car gets closed, is normal. 

Good luck and let us know how it goes


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Thank you for the reply and suggestion. However, my left hand battery is only 1 year old and all systems are working normally. As for the air escaping sound, I am used to hearing it when I turn off the car, but this was while the car was running and I was cycling the ride height system. Also, the car seems to be sitting level. Any other thoughts? Thanks again.

Ron M.


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

Ron your last post isn't clear as to weather the suspension continues to work (either half way or not at all). I had a fuse go on my '04 several years ago that protected the pump/dryer you normally hear running when you shut down the car. The car stayed at the last height I'd requested but the message stayed lit until I replaced the fuse. The problem never re occurred. If the message has gone away, the comfort battery is new like yours and all seems well I'd not worry. I would still want the car to be scanned looking for a fault. Phaeton's are notorious for healing themselves but I'd still want a tech to do a scan.

Ron B


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Thanks Ron,

Suspension appears to be working fine, but ride height adjustment won't let me raise car to high setting. I strongly suspect mechanical not electrical problem, based on the way in which the failure occurred. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but my best guess is a leaking air hose. If it were a fuse, I would have expected a sudden failure, rather than a gradual one as I described above. Do you agree? Thanks for your reply.

Best,
Ron M.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Another possibility is the ride height sensors. I believe there's one on each wheel and they do fail occasionally.


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## stefanuk (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm thinking that if you had an air leak in one of the lines then you would hear the compressor working constantly to maintain the air in the system. 

Stefan


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Thank you all for your replies. Please keep them coming!

Well, after my last post this morning, I got in my car to go to work. As soon as I started the car the red warning message came on again. I wish I had written down the exact wording, but it was the same one I saw on Saturday that said something to the effect of "CAR TOO LOW". 

So, I swore again loudly, turned off the car, got out and walked around the car. The front left corner of the car was lower than the rest. I swore loudly again. Then I got back in the car and started it, and this time the warning message was gone. I got out of the car and the car was nice and level again. I tried engaging the ride height system and it worked, and took the car to maximum height. I lowered it to normal height and drove to work (11 miles), without incident. 

I called my service tech and am taking the car over late this afternoon for him to take a quick look. Any predictions or suggestions?

Thanks again,
Ron M.


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## SwissW12 (Feb 7, 2012)

Like i posted earlier, i had this two weeks ago. My right side was lower. After the calibration everything was fine again. Cost me 80€ and 1 hour  I hope you have the same....


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Since it's intermittent, my money's on the height sensor on that corner.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

remrem said:


> ...Any predictions or suggestions?


Ron:

In the heat of the moment, don't forget to first investigate the health of the left battery. As you know, spurious messages - particularly about the suspension system - are the 'canary in the coal mine' indicating low voltage on the left battery.

FYI, it is normal for the car to make the occasional hissing noise from the area around the compressor in the trunk shortly after shutdown, or immediately upon being 'woken up' (doors unlocked, signal from the remote key fob received, etc.).

Michael


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

remrem said:


> Thank you all for your replies. Please keep them coming!
> 
> Well, after my last post this morning, I got in my car to go to work. As soon as I started the car the red warning message came on again. I wish I had written down the exact wording, but it was the same one I saw on Saturday that said something to the effect of "CAR TOO LOW".
> 
> ...


Ron:

I'd stick with what is working. Swearing every time there's a problem is much cheaper than taking it to VW. . 

In all seriousness, it's probably a good idea to get a scan. Especially since if an airshock is failing you may get some support from VW. Evaluating the LHS battery, as suggested by Michael, is always the first place to start.

Good luck.

Jim X


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## nshirazi1 (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear about your problem. I had a very similar situation that happened to me a few weeks back. The problem showed its head only once in a while and towards the end it was more often than not. Mine was a slow leak in my drivers side strut. It cost me $2700 to replace that one strut along with 4 tpm's. 
my guess, it's the strut but check on the other options as they are all a much less expensive fix then replacing a strut. 
Good luck and keep us posted. 
Nick


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hello again and thanks for all the input! 

Well, first let me apoligize and say that perhaps I gave you incorrect information yesterday. Looking back on it, when I saw the front left corner sitting low, I may have been too busy cursing to walk around and check out the front right corner, so it is entirely possible that it was the whole front end sitting lower, not just one corner.

That having been said, when I last reported to you I was going to go visit my Phaeton tech yesterday afternoon. When I went to get in my car to go see him, this time I took a more careful look and I observed that both front corners were sitting low. I started the car and within 15 seconds or so the front end lifted back up into normal position. I then took the car to my Phaeton tech. 

I explained the history of what was happening, as well as the suggestions that all of you had provided. He had that look that said, I've seen this before and I'm pretty sure I know what this is. We drove away from the garage to a quiet area on their lot and turned the car on and off a few times. Each time I turned off the car, the front end would sink. Each time I turned it on, it lifted back up. When we turned off the car, we went around the car to each wheel and put our ears up next to the wheelwells. There was a pronounced hissing coming from the right front. My tech said this confirmed his suspicion that I had a slow leaking strut (sounds like the same issue Nick described in the post above), which he says needs to be replaced. I asked how urgent it was and if I could keep driving the car until my schedule allows me to leave the car with him, and he said no big deal, except that the compressor would be running all the time and start throwing error messages.

I trust my Phaeton tech. He's the only one who has been allowed to touch my car since I purchased it 4 1/2 years ago. He's worked on many Phaetons, since there a quite a few (relatively) here in south Florida and he's the only certified Phaeton tech at this very big VW dealership. He's never steered me wrong, and he is very careful, methodical, thoughtful, and honest. I do not want to question his conclusion, and his quick deduction seemed logical. On the other hand, he didn't scan the car, nor test the left hand battery. 

So, my question is: Does his diagnosis seem perfectly compatatible with my symptoms?

Thanks again for your feedback!

Best,
Ron M.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Beware of running it in that condition! There's a thread somewhere in the last few weeks of someone who needed a new compressor after it had been running continuously because of a bad strut!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

remrem said:


> So, my question is: Does his diagnosis seem perfectly compatible with my symptoms?


Hi Ron:

Your technician's analysis certainly sounds credible to me. My only follow-up question would be whether the strut itself needs to be replaced, or whether there is a problem with the air supply line running to the strut. It should be easy enough to determine the answer to that.

As InvisibleWave pointed out, the compressor is not designed to run frequently - I don't think it would be a good idea to use the car until the problem is fixed.

Michael


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Thank you again for your replies,

I am going to try to get this fixed as soon as possible, and refrain from driving the car as much as possible until then. My tech says he's 99% sure it's the strut and not the air line that supplies it, but he'll be able to tell for sure once he gets my car up on the lift and can see what's going on.

Question: Can anyone explain to me why, if just the right front strut is bad (most likely), why doesn't just the front right corner only sink down? Or, the other side of that question is - why doesn't the whole car sink down, instead of just the front end? 

Best,
Ron M.


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## nshirazi1 (Sep 20, 2012)

remrem said:


> Hello again and thanks for all the input!
> 
> Well, first let me apoligize and say that perhaps I gave you incorrect information yesterday. Looking back on it, when I saw the front left corner sitting low, I may have been too busy cursing to walk around and check out the front right corner, so it is entirely possible that it was the whole front end sitting lower, not just one corner.
> 
> ...


Ron, 
The diagnosis sounds exactly the same as what my issue was and the tech is correct. I can tell you that at the end the leak got to the point that the compressor could not lift the car back up and the compressor was running nonstop and was heating up. Also at that point you'll be bouncing around like a poorly lowered low rider. 
If you look at my post from a few weeks back, you'll see a place where someone had suggested to purchase the strut from. I didn't get it from there but when I told my dealer about the cost, they matched the price and also gave me the same discount on my other parts as well. The strut should cost around $1400 OEM and the dealer originally quoted me $1750. 
My suggestion, which is what I did, is to park the car until you can take it in or try to get it in right away. They got mine replaced along with four new TPM sensors in a day. Dropped off in the morning and picked up by 5. 
Hope this has been helpful. 
Nick


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Thanks everyone, 

I'm going to get this addressed as soon as I can. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether using the ride height adjustment as I do (almost daily, when parking in a space with a concrete wheel stop) is a good or bad thing? I'm from the old school that disuse of a system with o-rings and other seals and gaskets is the worst thing, and that regular "exercise" of such a system is good for it. Am I wrong. Could I have caused this strut failure by parking the car in the "high" position on a regular basis?

Thanks, 
Ron M.


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## SwissW12 (Feb 7, 2012)

Maybe another thought:

If you have a leak on one strut, then i would asume only one side would sit lower. However, if your entire front sits lower, than i would believe the problem to be calibration related. It is sort of unlikely that both sides fail. If you can, have them recalibrate the system. This is done within one hour, and if it still fails then replace the struts. In my opinion its worth a try since i had the same issue (without the air escaping noise) some weeks ago.

Best of luck

SwissW12


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

SwissW12 said:


> Maybe another thought:
> 
> If you have a leak on one strut, then i would asume only one side would sit lower. However, if your entire front sits lower, than i would believe the problem to be calibration related. It is sort of unlikely that both sides fail. If you can, have them recalibrate the system. This is done within one hour, and if it still fails then replace the struts. In my opinion its worth a try since i had the same issue (without the air escaping noise) some weeks ago.
> 
> ...


Thanks Swiss W12,

Were you getting any warning messages, and if so what were they?

Best,
Ron M.


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## SwissW12 (Feb 7, 2012)

Hello Ron,

i did not get any error messages and the car behaved normaly. Altough it was sometimes very slow to build up preassure on the front. Since the calibration, the system has been performing as new.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

remrem said:


> Does anyone have an opinion as to whether using the ride height adjustment as I do (almost daily, when parking in a space with a concrete wheel stop) is a good or bad thing?


I don't think that should make any difference at all. The levelling system operates on every power cycle of the car - it should not make any difference if you manually adjust it vs. the car automatically making adjustments.

If it did make any difference, it would be to the life of the air compressor, not the air lines or the struts.

Michael


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## nshirazi1 (Sep 20, 2012)

I can tell you that my vehicle was rarely ever manually raised and I ended up with the same problem. Also, as mentioned in one of the above posts, the system works on a daily basis when you start the car and so on so you're not doing anything that the system already does not do. 
Nick


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Thanks again for the replies. I didn't realize the system worked that way. I always thought that unless I manually instruct the car to raise up to the "high" level, that it always maintains the same "normal" ride height. Of course, on those rare ocassions that I have forgotten to lower the car, I have seen it automatically do so when I exceed a certain speed.


So, are you saying it's constantly adjusting ride height? If so, doesn't that mean the compressor is running a lot anyway? I realize a leak would make it work harder to compensate, but still I had no idea. Very interesting, but I don't comprehend entirely.

Ron M.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Have you never noticed the ground rising and falling slightly when you're at a set of traffic lights???


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## nshirazi1 (Sep 20, 2012)

The system does work constantly but only in small spurts. It's my understanding that the tank/reservoir fills up and the pump will only work a little bit here an there to maintain the system. When you have a leak the pump runs nonstop and its not designed for that and it will get extremely hot. 
I'm in no way a professional nor an expert on this but this is what I've gathered in my experience. 
Nick


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

remrem said:


> So, are you saying it's constantly adjusting ride height?


Hi Ron:

I don't believe that it is 'constantly' adjusting ride height. But, the compressor does cycle on every time the car 'wakes up' (in other words, at the beginning of every power-up cycle, after the car has been parked and left alone for a reasonable period of time), and the compressor will operate as load distribution changes during vehicle use, even if that load distribution change is nothing more than all the fuel in the gas tank being consumed as you drive across Kansas in the middle of the night with the cruise control turned on.

The Phaeton uses a closed-loop air system for suspension, in other words, assuming no leak has developed, the air moving around between the compressor and the four struts consists of the same air molecules that were originally loaded into the system in Dresden. 

Michael


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Each strut is fed from a separate pipe from the solenoid valve block, so there's no mechanical reason for the front or back corners to drop as a pair.

The compressor has an overheat cut-off, so driving with a constant leak causing the compressor to run at a high duty cycle and get hot will cause it to shut down from time to time. This means that the High-Low switch won't function during that time and if the leak is bad, dynamic height control will suffer after the accumulator tank pressure runs out.

There should be an interesting array of error messages on a scan.

Chris


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

invisiblewave said:


> Have you never noticed the ground rising and falling slightly when you're at a set of traffic lights???


Yes, but I always assumed that was just the drugs and alcohol :beer:

(Just kidding of course)


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Paximus said:


> Each strut is fed from a separate pipe from the solenoid valve block, so there's no mechanical reason for the front or back corners to drop as a pair...
> 
> ...There should be an interesting array of error messages on a scan.
> 
> Chris



Thanks Chris, Michael, and Nick,

Chris (and anyone else who would like to chime in), are you saying you think the diagnosis of a leaking right front strut is inconsistent with the symptom of my *entire* front end sinking down? My tech seemed so confident in his assessment, that I wasn't going to pressure him to do a scan. However, if you or anyone else out there, still thinks he might have it wrong, and that he absolutely needs to do a scan, then please put in your 2 cents. I really appreciate your input, and welcome your various perspectives.

Best,
Ron M


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Why _wouldn't_ he do a scan? It's a 5 minute job. I suppose it's possible that a failed strut on one side might cause the car to compensate on the other, but I seem to recall posts where people describe one corner only sagging.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Why wouldn't he do a scan?


I agree with invisiblewave, it would be unusual to commit to labour and quite possibly an expensive part without at least looking at the vehicle's self-diagnostics.

Chris


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> Why _wouldn't_ he do a scan? It's a 5 minute job.


My thoughts exactly. 

It's a risk/reward decision. The risk is that the technician spends 5 minutes scanning the car and does not gather new information. The reward is that the technician gathers new information that he or she then uses to modify their current hypothesis.

If it was me, I would scan it before doing any work of any kind, beyond perhaps adding a quart of oil if the dipstick read low.

Michael


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## tongzilla (Dec 30, 2011)

Ron, I have been experiencing the exact same problem with my vehicle during this past month. My entire front end had been sitting low for about a month. The front struts seemed to be loosing air right after i turned the car off. The thing is that during this past month, I had never had a warning message on the cluster telling me the car was too low. Until about 2 weeks ago, my P would warn me with that message every time I start up the car. After a short moment, the car would come up to its normal height and everything would be fine. During this week, the ride height selection worked on and off. It was doing that for a few days until one day that it seemed to be taking quite a bit longer than usual for the car to raise up. On that very day, during my 15 miles drive home I noticed that the front end seemed to be sitting lower and the ride was a little bumpier than usual - I told myself it is time to go to the dealer! What happened was that the car would raise up to the normal height but the start loosing air immediately even when the car was running.

As I had mentioned earlier, passenger side front corner seemed to be sitting slightly lower than the driver side and this side also appeared to loose air first. So I thought the passenger side strut was bad and then somehow pulled the driver side down. I scanned it and it showed small leak in the system. I don't believe it tells me which strut it was though. I could be wrong. Anyhow, I managed to have the vehicle towed to a dealer 3 hours away and found out that the driver side is the one that was bad and not the passenger side! 

And because of me running the car for roughly a month with this problem, I'm now having to replace the compressor as well! The compressor itself works but the valve block was faulty. My service advisor was trying to explain it to me why the valve block had became faulty but I didn't get all of the detail. I only gathered that a) my driving with a faulty strut caused this, and b) the valve block is part of the compressor and because of this I'm now having to replace the compressor at $1,500!

So my advice to you is to get it fixed, I would have only had to replace just 1 strut and not the compressor but since I did what I did, my bill is doubled!

Well actually I have a 3rd party service contract through The Penn Warranty, they are paying for my strut since the agreement covers air bags and pump. I thought they would pay for my compressor as well but NOoooo - since it was the Valve Block that was bad and not the compressor - they won't cover it even though it is the same single unit. Oh well. Typical 3rd party warranty company. I paid $1,000 for this 2 year contract and they already paid out $2,000 on my car during the past 6 months. I guess I can't complain too much.

Tong


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Thank you all again. My service advisor has been out sick, but hopefully tomorrow he will be back and I will get the car scanned (as you all wisely suggested) and report back to you the results. In the meantime, thanks to your warnings, I have parked the car and am using it only if I absolutely have to.

Regards,
Ron M.


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## SwissW12 (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi Ron,

any news?


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi all,

Was finally able to get the problem diagnosed and fixed. It was indeed a leaky front right strut, which has been replaced and is working perfectly. The tech says that when one front strut fails it is normal for the entire front end to sink down, despite the valve block configuration, though I did not entirely understand his explanation for this. Luckily the compressor did not die on me, and so the problem is solved. Not cheap, but I guess it could have been worse. 

By the way, the tech says it almost always seems to be the front right strut that goes first. Not sure why, but I wildy guessed perhaps it is that this corner gets the heaviest work out and most abuse. My very unscientific theory is that when we make right turns, they are generally slower and don't put as heavy a load on the left front strut, as when we make faster left turns. If my theory is correct, then I would expect that on right hand drive Phaetons, the left front strut would be the first to go. Anyone have any evidence on this one way or the other? 

Thanks again to all of you for your input and feedback.

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Interesting. Thanks for the update.


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