# Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly



## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

Like the topic said,
Passenger Window going down about 4 inches, unnattended, randomly, has happened twice.both times it happened within 5 minutes of closing the passenger door, and getting off the car, and while the car was not running, no key in ingintion.
We cannot reproduce the issue (Of course)
But the window operates normally otherwise , and was raised when the issues occured, with the electric switches, and operates normally. 
First electrical gremlin ?
Any ideas ?
We'll just keep an eye on it for now, as we can't reproduce the issue, but if anyone experiences the issue, or has any clues, please let me know.


_Modified by ialonso at 4:09 PM 9-19-2006_


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## Domdog31 (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (ialonso)*

yess that happens to me to either when the top goes up and or the side door has been closed..im assuming its either a memory feature? or just a bug (hope not) get back to me


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## nette (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (ialonso)*

OK.... me too!!!
When I put the roof up, all the windows close.. then the passenger window decides to reopen itself about half way.
I took it to the dealer. Of course, it wouldn't do it in the service department. They thought it might be something connect to the pinch feature. The windows reopen if something is in the way.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (nette)*

Same here, when I put the top up and I hold the lever to raise the windows ocassionally the passenger window goes to the top then starts going down. Tonight when I was was washing the car I openned the passenger door to clean off the seats and when I closed it the window went down 4 or more inches. Mind you I hadn't powered the car on in over 15 minutes. My original thought was that it had something to do with temperature differences and it was a way for the car to match the temperature required by my current climatronic settings, but why would it do that if the car was off. I hope if it is a bug in the system that we'll all get a call to have our ECU's reflashed.


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## Turbocrazy (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (aflaedge)*

It sounds like what nette said, maybe the pinch protection. My GTI would get a case of the gremlins every once in a while and after raising a window, it would drop down a certain amount. If you put your hand in the way of the window to activate the pinch protection (only do this if you know the car has the feature!), it was roughly the same distance.
Since the Eos windows are frameless, the windows drop down slightly when opening and move back up when closed. Maybe, even with the key off, the door opens, window drops a bit, and then when going back up, it senses more force and activates the pinch protection. I know that snow or other debris can activate the pinch feature. Do your guys's passenger window seals look any different from the driver?


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## swordfish1 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (ialonso)*

And me too, but it's the driver's window. Seeing as I'm in England and it's RHD it is the same window.
It's done it on mine quite a few times, always after I put the roof up. The window goes up to the top then drops half way.
Also, twice, the window has dropped just an inch. Both times I've noticed it when cleaning the car and water went inside


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## Xris (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (swordfish1)*

Guess what... it happened to me too... And I haven't even got my car!
On Monday, I was at the dealer to see my new EOS that had just arrived. I opened the passenger's door and when I closed it I noticed that for some reason the window could not go up. Then it immediately went down, almost all the way.
Me too, I think that this is a result of pinch protection. An explanation could be that the rubber seals are too tight around the glass on the passenger's side. The window mechanism interprets that as an obstacle and opens the window.


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (Xris)*

I wonder if it isn't a pressure thing, like some other cars will crack the windows slightly so the air has a way to escape when you close the door. I know my friends TT 225 would do this.


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## Jpics (Apr 26, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (gizmopop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gizmopop* »_I wonder if it isn't a pressure thing, like some other cars will crack the windows slightly so the air has a way to escape when you close the door. I know my friends TT 225 would do this. 

so does the beetle, it does it so that the windows can seal properly with the roof


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (Jpics)*

I think the biggest difference between the cracking the seals / pressure difference and the issue being discussed here is the amount the window rolls down. I would say 4 inches is conservative because on my car it rolls down past the half-way point. The pinch protection might be the cause, but why only the right hand door? I wish there was an easy way to post video of this but it seems to be an error and not a built in feature.


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## chatcher (Sep 8, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (aflaedge)*

I was looking at an EOS on Labor Day weekend when the dealer was closed. The passenger window was halfway down, and lots of people were getting in the car, opening the trunk, etc. I thought the dealer had been careless and left the window down, but I guess it may have been this same problem.


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## Speedster356 (Aug 7, 2006)

This issue with the passenger window seems to be a common problem with Golf MK V's here in Europe. The guys at a local VW Club meeting confirmed it yesterday. No fix from VW offered yet!!!
What I would try if I had the car and had that problem is a trick used on some GM cars. Lower the window to the lowest position. Then lift the window by keeping the finger on the button during the lifting of the window and for several seconds after it has reached the top position.
This corrects the timing of the mechanism somehow. If I am right (and lucky) this might correct the problem.
Please test and report guys... Just brainstorming here!!!
_Modified by Speedster356 at 10:02 AM 9-21-2006_


_Modified by Speedster356 at 10:03 AM 9-21-2006_


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## bjorngra (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: (Speedster356)*

At the moment I don't have the problem. It's normal when you open the door (when the roof is closed) that the doorwindow lower a half Inch. Because the window slides in the roofsealing.


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## nette (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (bjorngra)*

The problem with my passenger window continues (about 50% of the time). When the roof is closed, all of the windows return to the closed position. Then... that one window reopens (more than half way).
Today, when I got out of the car in a parking lot... I closed the driver's door and that window decided to open itself about halfway.
What? Is my car possessed?


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (ialonso)*

*** UPDATE ***
I've spoken with VW's Customer Care Center and they have openned a Case file on it associated with my car. If anyone else is currently having this problem I suggest contacting your dealership and calling 1-800-822-8987. I don't know if you can ask for a specific call handler, but Mrs. Smith understands the issue. Besides the case file she sent off an email to the service manager at my dealership to expedite service. Furthermore, she will be contacting me today during or after the appointment to keep VWOA informed.


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## Xris (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (aflaedge)*

Mystery solved! 
It looks like sometimes the passenger window tries to close *outside* the door's seals. This is when the pinch protection mechanism is activated and the window goes down. 
It just happened to me again after trying to close the passenger's door.


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## northvw (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (Xris)*

XRIS, so what did you do to remedy the problem? Did you manually realign the seals (rubber strips)? Why is this only happenng to the right side front window? Could it be that the assembly robot on the line needs a little tweaking?


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## Xris (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (northvw)*

I haven't done anything to remedy the problem, as I am very cautious with the car's seals. However, I believe that a little tweaking (from the right hands...) could do the job.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (Xris)*

Don't DO anything yourself! Take it in to the dealership. VW has a solution and they did it to my car. Your dealership will need to call the VW techline. It takes about 2 hours and it involves realigning the door as well as some programming changes. If nobody believes you have them reference my case. Tell them a VW owner by the name of Chris had the same problem and it was fixed by the technicians at Brown's VW of Midlothian Virginia after they had spoken with the VW techline. I haven't fully tested it out but it was covered under warranty which is a whole lot better than fooling with it yourself. If it doesn't fix the problem I'll be the first one to let you all know!

*** UPDATE ***
Still having issues, don't try and fix it yourself though.



_Modified by aflaedge at 10:04 AM 10-3-2006_


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## Xris (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (aflaedge)*

Of course I am not doing anything myself. I am not even considering going to the service. I already told you that I am very cautious with the car's seals as I have bitter experience with my previous hard-top cabrio...
I noticed that the problem is caused when you try to close the passenger's door with little power. If you do so, the window goes outside the seal and then the problem appears. If you exert a little more power, then the window goes under the seal and it closes properly. Perhaps if the window could go down 1-2 mm more after opening the door, it would get stuck outside the seals when closing the door and thus there wouldn't be any problem.


_Modified by Xris at 2:45 AM 10-4-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (ialonso)*

Any VW that has power windows will have a feature built into the window controller that is called 'pinch protection'. This causes the window to reverse direction if the resistance encountered whilst closing is higher than the baseline resistance for that specific vehicle (meaning, your VIN).
Because the amount of friction (resistance) encountered when closing will vary a bit from car to car, it is necessary to carry out an 'adaptation' (calibration) of the windows so that the window controller knows what the baseline resistance is in your vehicle. This baseline resistance is then used as the reference when the window is operating. Normally, the adaptation is done by the VW dealer as part of the PDI inspection.
Car owners can re-adapt the window if the baseline resistance changes. Changes to the baseline resistance can be caused by any number of things - dirt or dust in the window track, dirt or dust in the seal on the bottom outside edge of the window, or in the case of the Eos, some settling in of the roof structure.
To re-adapt a window, run it all the way down, all the way up, then all the way down again, holding the window button in place while you do this (in other words, don't use the auto-up or auto-down feature). This will result in the window controller reading and storing new baseline resistance information. For the specific problem indicated on the first post of this thread, I think it would be best to carry out this adaptation with the roof in the closed position, because it seems that the extra (unexpected) resistance is coming from the roof, not just the window track.
Michael


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## davidg (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (ialonso)*

Here , our prob , rubber getting pinched sometimes on closing 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2919222


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## chon.com (Nov 10, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_

To re-adapt a window, run it all the way down, all the way up, then all the way down again, holding the window button in place while you do this (in other words, don't use the auto-up or auto-down feature). This will result in the window controller reading and storing new baseline resistance information. For the specific problem indicated on the first post of this thread, I think it would be best to carry out this adaptation with the roof in the closed position, because it seems that the extra (unexpected) resistance is coming from the roof, not just the window track.
Michael

I was taught to roll the window down click down 2 times on the window down button then to roll the window back up and click 2 times in the up posistion and that will reset the auto up and auto down and reset the resistance. I have had the window stop on me several times in my 03 gti and it seems when you reset it the problem does go away. I live in AZ and I also have an EOS so I imagine its dust or dirt that is messing with the window not to mention the heat during the day and the cool nights would probably affect the settling of the hard top.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (ialonso)*

I'll try to get the exact procedure for re-adapting pinch protection on Eos windows from the VW repair manual, and publish it here.
I think, though, that we might have two totally different issues being discussed in the same conversation here. Looking over all the posts above, I can see that some people have identified problems that are _'for sure, 100%' plain old pinch protection - and only pinch protection'_ - and some people have identified problems that might relate to alignment of roof seals or other components (in other words, pinch protection activating because the window is not free to travel to where it wants to go).
By example, let's look at this post:

_Quote, originally posted by *nette* »_When I put the roof up, all the windows close.. then the passenger window decides to reopen itself about half way...

It is clear that the pinch protection is activating for the passenger window. My Phaeton will occasionally do the same thing, and it's a hard-top with frames and guide rails all around the window glass. So, the first troubleshooting action is to reset the pinch protection for that particular window. This is something that the owner can easily do (no tools) in about 15 seconds - I just have to confirm the correct procedure, which I will try to do today.
Chris identified the same issue on his car when he wrote:

_Quote, originally posted by *aflaedge* »_...the amount the window rolls down. I would say 4 inches is conservative because on my car it rolls down past the half-way point. 

That is, without any doubt, the pinch protection activating.
What we don't know is if the pinch protection on Nette's and Chris's car is activating only because the window pinch protection calibration needs to be reset, or if it is activating because the window pinch protection is properly set, and the window is encountering something (a seal, or a part, whatever) before it reaches the end of its travel. This is, I think, what Christos was suggesting when he wrote his thoughtful analysis:

_Quote, originally posted by *Xris* »_ An explanation could be that the rubber seals are too tight around the glass on the passenger's side. The window mechanism interprets that as an obstacle and opens the window.

What we can't figure out (hey, we're just enthusiasts, not trained VW techs, and the car is new to all of us) is why it is doing what Israel wrote about in the very first post on this discussion:

_Quote, originally posted by *ialonso* »_Passenger Window going down about 4 inches, unattended, randomly, has happened twice - both times it happened within 5 minutes of closing the passenger door, and getting off the car, and while the car was not running, no key in ignition.

Based on what we know, we can reasonably assume that pinch protection is activating. But, activating some time after closing the door? This is what is 'new and different' about the Eos. On other VW products, pinch protection either activates instantly when the window encounters an obstacle or crosses the upper threshold of allowable friction, or, it won't activate at all. There is no 'delayed activation' of pinch protection.
Anyway... I'm sure we'll get it all figured out sooner or later. It will be fascinating to find out what the cause is, and even more interesting to find out what the solution is. I rather suspect that the car is 'doing what it is supposed to do', however, the car needs a tweak or two (either re-calibration of the pinch protection for a specific window, or a physical tweak of a component) to stop it from invoking this safety related action.
Michael


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## nette (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*

Michael
Regarding ialonso's problems with the window going down randomly after the door is closed and no key in ignition.... how about this...
After the door is closed, like a minute later, the window goes up the last inch to fit into the seal. This is what its suppose to do, but maybe the pinch protection is opening up his window.
I have been sitting in my car, after the passenger door was closed and the window closes itself that last inch. It has startled me more than once. You don't expect the windows to be moving by themselves.


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm going back to resolve it friday. I will be out of town for Thanksving, so they get to keep it all week. I figured out that the passenger window does roll down enough. if you close it slowly it will bite the seal every time. I hope being able to reproduce it and to be able to show them the issue, gets them to fix it... we'll see.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (nette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nette* »_After the door is closed, like a minute later, the window goes up the last inch to fit into the seal. This is what its suppose to do, but maybe the pinch protection is opening up his window.

Hi Nette:
I think you are 100% correct with your analysis. Just about all the convertible cars made in the last 7 or 8 years (by all manufacturers) follow that strategy - if you unlock the car, the window drops about half an inch (to allow the window to clear the seal), and after you close the door, the window rises back up to make a tight seal. There are variations on the theme, but that seems to be the general strategy.
I think that perhaps all the owners and dealers are just going through a bit of a 'learning process' now, because the car is so new. We had similar experiences with the Phaeton when it was first introduced 3 years ago - the forum was flooded with posts to the effect of _'Why *is *it doing this?' _and _'Why *isn't* it doing that?'_. Now, when we look back on all that confusion, we kind of laugh - everything is now documented in the forum Table of Contents, and whenever a new owner posts about a problem, other forum members can say _'Here's the solution.' _Hopefully, over time, we can build up the same body of knowledge here in the Eos forum.
Michael


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## Canadian Lurker (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*

I think that a contributing factor to the confusion is that there is a setting that can be engaged to either open and prep just the driver's door window when the un-luck button is pressed on the fob - or - it can be engaged to unlock and prep both. I guess it gives you flexibility if you usually drive with a passenger to "prep" both of the doors for opening. 
So, if it was delivered with the setting engaged to do both doors, and only the driver is typically entering the vehicle, it might appear strange that the passenger window was moving when it shouldn't. I'd suggest changing the settings and the monitoring to see if the strange behaviour continues or not.


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## notawagon (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (Canadian Lurker)*

Thanks to all of those who contributed help to this problem. I have encountered the problem three times now. Once in the pouring rain when I had to get something from the glove box, once when I was simply cleaning the car interior and closed the passenger door, and the last time that was somewhat embarassing when I was showing the car to some car enthusiast friends who witnessed the "bug" first-hand.
I have called the dealer who had no clue to this, so I appreciate these tips while I wait to bring it in on a day when I can have a loaner car. I really hope this works and does not involve them having to realign doors, etc... 
Isn't it strange how this all seems to be happening to the right side door? I have not read one case of it happening to the left door. That sounds like there must be something in common to the design or the construction and/or testing. If that is the case, they should be able to provide the common remedy and avoid it for future construction.
I will try your down/up/down suggestion. Please let me know if I should also try the "2-tap" remedy.


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## vweosdriver (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (notawagon)*

A tech at the dealer here says the pinch protection should only work with key in the ignition and not effect anything after you've left the car. Sometimes bugs cause un- though of problems like you're experiencing. I look forward to hearing what fixes your problem.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (notawagon)*


_Quote »_
I have called the dealer who had no clue to this, so I appreciate these tips while I wait to bring it in on a day when I can have a loaner car. I really hope this works and does not involve them having to realign doors, etc... 


Don't buy this bull that the dealership is trying to tell you about not knowing about the problem or it being a simple change. I went through this about 2 months ago with my dealership and they finally had to call into the VW techline. It took the VW techs about two tries but they finally got it right. I don't know exactly what they did but they had the car for a few days each time. Ask they to call into the VW techline if they give you some kind of quick fix response.


_Quote »_
Isn't it strange how this all seems to be happening to the right side door? I have not read one case of it happening to the left door. That sounds like there must be something in common to the design or the construction and/or testing. If that is the case, they should be able to provide the common remedy and avoid it for future construction.


I've had it happen to the left side door but if the VW techs complete the realignment correctly the first time you should have no trouble. Essentially I told them and my dealership that the right side door had a problem but they worked on both (signed and dated on my receipt). For two weeks after that the Right side worked fine but the left side kept dropping. So I took it in again and they worked on the left side. Now it's been error free. There is a common remedy as they described it to be a 2 hour adjustment in the alignment and programing. Don't Settle for less.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (vweosdriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweosdriver* »_A tech at the dealer here says the pinch protection should only work with key in the ignition and not effect anything after you've left the car. Sometimes bugs cause un- though of problems like you're experiencing. I look forward to hearing what fixes your problem. 

The pinch protection is active any time there is power to the windows. So when the ignition is out of the car but the door is being closed and you see it roll up that last few millimeters there is power to the system. Furthermore, the basic purpose of pinch protection is so that when you close the door you don't pinch your fingers into the seal. The tech at the dealer is either missinformed or trying to keep you from getting what will be an expensive but under warranty fix.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (aflaedge)*

Chris:
Although I agree with what you are saying ("The pinch protection is active any time there is power to the windows"), I can also appreciate the point that Robert made, which is that once you turn the car off and lock the thing up (or, walk away from it), the pinch protection ought to turn itself off. The only exception to this would be the 'comfort' feature that allows you to roll up a window after having removed the key from the ignition, but only if no door has been opened since the key was removed.
I think there must be some missing bit of information that none of us have figured out just yet. I am equally sure that sooner or later, we will figure out what it is, at which point we will all look back on this thread and laugh and say "Geez, why did it take us all so long to figure that one out?"








Michael


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Chris:
I think there must be some missing bit of information that none of us have figured out just yet. I am equally sure that sooner or later, we will figure out what it is, at which point we will all look back on this thread and laugh and say "Geez, why did it take us all so long to figure that one out?"








Michael


http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2838958 
It ought to turn itself off, but consider what I observed on multiple ocassions several months ago. When closing the passenger door the glass actually never made it into the seal. I wish I could get it to happen again but since VW fixed my car it hasn't. the two little horizontal lines on the top lip of the window are the sensors for the pinch protection and if they don't make it into the seal by a certain time the pinch protection is activated. There could also be a resistance sensor in the motor. Anyway when the door is closed and the window rolls up those last few millimeters but somehow manages to be ouside of the seal completely the car should realize there is a problem but I sat there and watched it do nothing. Now I don't have hours to sit and watch the car but my guess is that during some system check at some later point or perhaps the pressure of the window on the outside of the seal triggers the computer to realize hey the window isn't where it is supposed to be. Then it rolls down on it's own. Although I haven't witnessed the connection between these two events, I can say that what used to happen every few days hasn't happened once since my last VW service visit. 

Until somebody can post a picture of this phenomenon here is a crude txt picture I've created for your viewing pleasure







. 
S = SEAL, W = WINDOW
GOOD








SSSS 
SWS 
SWS 


BAD








SSS
S SW
S SW


_Modified by aflaedge at 4:04 PM 11-20-2006_


_Modified by aflaedge at 4:07 PM 11-20-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (aflaedge)*

Fascinating. Thanks for posting that additional information, Chris... it's another piece of the puzzle, and one step closer to figuring things out.
Michael


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## notawagon (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*

This is fascinating, annoying, and somewhat depressing at the same time. 
This morning my left side window also jumped down to keep company with the right side, I guess.
I had pulled into work, turned off everything, removed the key, opened the door, and observed something strange. I was expecting to see the window move down a bit after the door was opened and to me it appeared it did not move down enough to properly clear the seals. While looking at the front of the window near the mirror, the glass appeared to still be tight against that seal.
Sure enough, when I got out and closed the door, the window immediately jumped down about half-way. It appeared the system did not lower the window enough to clear the seal. Then, when the door was closed, since the window made immediate contact with the seal, it must have sensed trouble and jumped down.
I did try your recommended down-up-down reset last night on both windows. I guess we're back to the drawing board. Please let me know if I should try the 2-tap technique next.
A couple of comments here before any premature assessments. My car is less than a month old with only about 550 miles. This can't be blamed on dirt or obstructions, etc... The car is spotlessly clean. Also, although a small problem, if/when this happens on rainy occasions, it is a pain in the butt. Since you never know when it will happen, you now must assume it will always happen. You can never run from the car in the rain and assume your windows haven't opened back up. Proof of this is the car in the dealer lot that was left open after the dealer was closed with a partially open passenger window.
I have made an appointment with my dealer for 11/28 which is their first available date with a loaner car. Since this may take longer than a few hours, I insisted on the loaner. The dealer says they have not encountered this yet on the Eos. Luckily my wife has not yet seen this happen, although my sons and some friends have. Prior to my wife driving the car, I will have to warn her about the problem and remind her that she will have to make sure all the windows are closed after parking the car every time. Justifiably, she will question the car's design, construction, and reliability.
We have owned many cars including BMW 3-series coupes and convertibles with the same anti-pinch frameless feature. This has never happened before.
This seems to be happening to new Eos cars very soon after delivery. It is not limited to cars that have been on the road for several months or several thousand miles. My car has been parked in the rain several times which was heavy at times. Is it possible that has added to it? If so, it shouldn't have.
Well, we still love our Eos and recognize it is an imperfect machine created by imperfect people. I can only hope the dealer (and VW) will acknowledge and see the problem themselves and that their fix will not be trial and error. Once again this proves that to avoid many problems, including ghost windows and annoying roof seal squeaks, we'll just have to keep the top down.
I'll let you know how my fix goes, but please keep us posted if/when the exact fix is available in writing. I don't want trial and error. Thanks.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (notawagon)*

Hi Karter:
Best advice I can give is to ask your service team to please, please, please call the VW Techline (the internal expert center for VW Techs). I am sure that the folks at Auburn Hills have figured this one out by now, the only remaining challenge is to get the information disseminated down to the field. Eventually, the information will also trickle down to us (the end users), but that might take a month or two more.
I do recall that the Phaeton owner group went through similar issues when the Phaeton first came to North America. We had battery discharge issues that were driving folks crazy, and VW was actually buying back cars because these problems could not be fixed at the local (dealership) level. Now, we all know that there is a quick and easy fix - just get a battery management controller that has upgraded software. Another example would be the Touareg - those folks had problems with the car not starting, and it was eventually discovered that the problem was a sealant (goo) that was dripping down onto one of the battery posts and causing a poor electrical connection.
I guess what I am trying to say is that the fix for the window problem is most likely going to be something that is fairly simple and can be implemented with minimal time and effort, and minimal invasion into the vehicle. Chances are, the folks at the VW Technician Techline desk can help your dealership get the problem fixed quickly on the first attempt.
What you could do, to make the repair process easier at the dealer level, is perhaps arrange to leave the car for a couple of days. This will remove the time pressure from the tech and allow him or her the time needed to call the Techline, get the fix, implement it, and call back and speak to the same expert again if he or she has any questions that arise during the repair.
Hope this info helps shed light on things,
Michael


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## notawagon (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*

Hello, Michael.
Thanks for your response. I have no problem with the dealership keeping the car as long as necessary. They are providing a loaner car.
As long as this does not become trial and error. I am afraid of coming out to the car after a rainy time parked to find an open window.
I have lived through two World Trade Center disasters so this is not even close. I have also witnessed BMW having HUGE problems with their 7-series when it came out and quietly providing many replacement vehicles after many tedious trial and error attempts.
It's just a shame... People dropped the ball. Engineering was not done properly. Minimum specs and requirements were either overlooked, under/over estimated, etc.... What was the rush?
Take your time and do it right ONCE. Test it and test it again. There was no rush for the Eos. What was the rush? We were not going to buy the Pontiac or Volvo or the BMW... If they thought they had to get this rushed out to market to prevent us from getting the new BMW, they didn't have to.
I would love to know how many Eos this problem effects. I bet there are many out there who see it happen and have not yet called thier dealers. 
Thanks again for all your help. I have much sympathy and patience, but only if they fix it right the first time. Don't rush the fix. Fix it right, ONCE. Speed does not impress me. Speed used improperly can and will make things worse. Take your time. Fix it right.
Last thing.... I know Audi used to heavily monitor the Audiworld website.... Does VW monitor this one? If you look around the vortex forums, this appears to be the main and most common Eos problem at least right now.
Thanks


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (notawagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notawagon* »_I have lived through two World Trade Center disasters so this is not even close. 

Yeah, I know what you mean. By profession, I work in war relief as an aircraft pilot and aircraft engineer. I spent most of the summer in Darfur, and will be going to Somalia next month. So, car problems don't upset me much - I see them as engineering challenges, puzzles to be solved, not as big headaches. In fact, I kind of enjoy the whole troubleshooting and information gathering process, which is why I participate in the forum when I have the time to do so.
I do know what you mean when you say "...as long as this doesn't become trial and error". You're right on the money there. The more dis-assembly gets done, the greater the risk of introducing other problems that were not even there before. It sound to me like Chris's (aflaedge) VW dealer in the Richmond, VA area has got the trick figured out - this I gain from Chris's posts about a similar problem at this discussion: Passenger door closing improperly. Chris, if you are reading this, maybe you could provide the phone number of your dealer and the Service Manager's name, and Karter's Service Manager could give them a call and benefit from their experience?
Michael


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## notawagon (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*

Michael, you are the man.
I have and always will know that any postings and responses by you will be useful, thorough, and thoughtful.
We'll get though this. What's the worst that will happen? They give me a new Eos in the Spring?


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## notawagon (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*

Michael, you are the man.
I have and always will know that any postings and responses by you will be useful, thorough, and thoughtful.
We'll get though this. What's the worst that will happen? They give me a new Eos in the Spring?


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## Turbocrazy (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (notawagon)*

Something interesting on my passenger window. It too does not seem to auto-roll down enough. When you open the passenger door, it always catches on the rubber seal, with an audible soft "thump" as it catches and then makes it by. However, I have never come outside and found the window rolled down. The one time it did roll down a couple inches, my passenger had admittedly not closed the door hard enough (interior lights were still on) and then it activated the pinch protection and rolled down. They closed the door harder, and then I rolled it up fine.
A couple times after putting the top up, after the top was finished and I continued to hold the roof switch to have the windows close, the passenger window would drop a couple inches. This is without the door ever having been open. On my driver's door with the windows up, the lower guide line can be seen (there are a pair of guideline on either side of the "b-pillar"). On the passenger windows, the guidelines are completely covered by the seal.
I remember back with my MKIV GTI when I had problems with the common window regulator issue. They had used plastic to attach the glass to the window regulator, which would break and cause the glass to drop inside the door; they came out with a metal retrofit and replaced anyone's that was affected. However, before they officially started fixing cars for free (and mine was out of warranty), I would take the door apart and rig the plastic with some metal wire. It fixed the issue, but when tightening the two bolts that secured the glass, there was some vertical adjustment that had to be made. After the first time tightening, I tested the window and the pinch protection activated every single time, even after the calibration technique. After some adjustment, the pinch protection no longer activated and the window didn't leak. I'm hoping that the issue with the Eos is not a seal problem, but an adjustment with the glass. Since mine has never dropped unattended, I will probably just document the issue with my dealer but not have them fix immediately. I have to go in eventually and have my driver seatbelt switched out. My driver's belt was installed with a part number matching the passenger. This causes the belt to not lay flat over my shoulder (which is annoying as I am 6'5"!) because it was intended to face inward for the passenger side. My Eos may be teething a bit, but it is still the most fun I've ever had driving!
Shaun


_Modified by Turbocrazy at 6:59 PM 11-21-2006_


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (Turbocrazy)*

Shaun,
Sounds a lot like some of the symptoms I had. After the VW techline staff got a chance to work on my car I noticed that the passenger window comes down a bit farther when openning and closing the door.  I don't know if it was a programing change or an alignment change but it's worth looking into. Even if you don't have that window drop issue I would think that dragging the window through the seal will cause the rubber to fatigue and deteriorate quicker. That's something any convertible owner should fear. Best advice I can give you is every time somebody uses the passenger door go over and check it to see how everything is matching up. If everything looks good then wait till you get your first oil change to deal with window and be sure to call ahead so that your dealership can get all the right info and possibly get you a loaner car. It will save everybody time and money. Good Luck!


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## Turbocrazy (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (aflaedge)*

Chris,
That's exactly what I have been planning on. I agree, I didn't like the idea of leaving the passenger window this way, as it can't be good for the seal over time. So with my first oil change, hopefully they will have the correct procedure down, and they can also switch out my seatbelt. Glad to hear yours is doing better now.
Shaun


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_It sound to me like Chris's (aflaedge) VW dealer in the Richmond, VA area has got the trick figured out 

I did some checking in my records and here's what I've got:
Brown's VW Service # 804.379.7283
[email protected]
Richmond, Virginia
I think the main service guy is named Jeff, but if you ask about the EOS and service done to the right door/window I'm sure somebody will remember.
I also had a case with VW Customer Care so here is their contact info:
1-800-822-8987
Press 3 to talk to a customer advocate
Reference case # 60352866
Unfortunately they didn't get all that much info from my dealership as to how the problem was fixed. What you will learn is that my dealership persued all of their resources in addressing this problem. They called the VW Techline which is some kind of engineering hotline to Germany. Then they preceeded to call in the regional Quality Technical Manager. It was the QTM that looked at my car and advised / performed the solution.
The solution, a combination realignment and programing change as far as I can gather took two hours and they did it to both doors. I later returned to my dealership because the adjustment to the left side door actually threw it out of whack since it was okay to begin with. They readjusted the door and returned the car to me after a day. I think that second adjustment was conducted only by the service staff since they didn't mention having to coordinate my service visit with a QTM.
Anyway the resources are out there and the dealerships should be using them. If you don't get results you can contact VW customer care like I did and they'll tell the dealership to persue the QTM / VW techline route. 
If you feel your dealership's staff can handle it then let them persue their own resources. I had a "worst case scenario" in which the window rolled down unattended during a rainstorm. Call me hotheaded, but when my 3 week old, 36K car has 2 inches of standing water on the seat I want all that VW has to offer no matter how long the car has to sit in the shop.
So gauge your needs and expectations accordingly and good luck!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Window going down about 3 inches, unnattended, randomly (aflaedge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aflaedge* »_...They called the VW Techline which is some kind of engineering hotline to Germany...

It's actually an engineering hotline to a team of VW automotive engineers who are based in Auburn Hills, Michigan, at the VW of America head office. This team includes some representatives from Germany (folks who designed the car) and representatives from Portugal (folks who build the car). The bulk of the engineering support team members are American citizens, though.
Eos owners are pretty lucky, in the sense that VW has put a very good team together for the Eos. One of the engineers who is now assigned to the Eos support team helped us (the Phaeton owners) a lot way back when our car was new and we were having trouble figuring out why it was doing funny things sometimes. He is a sharp guy, a genuine auto enthusiast, and knows his stuff. 
Basically, the challenge now is to disseminate the knowledge that exists at VW of America headquarters out to the technicians in the field. In Canada and Europe, this is fairly easy to do, because VW can force the dealers to send the technicians to training courses. VW can also force the Canadian and European dealers to be 'single line' stores, meaning, they live or die based on VW sales and service only, and that has a real good effect on focusing the dealer's attention on customer service. In the USA, VW can't force the independent businesspeople who own the VW franchises to do any of these things - this due to the scope of franchise protection laws in the US - so, it is quite critical that when you buy a car (any car), you take a very close look at the competency of the dealership service department, rather than just shopping around for the best price on the new vehicle.
Michael


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