# Velocity Stack + short ram



## SiCk Gti1.8t (Apr 22, 2008)

Ive searched around for this topic and was unable to find anything but thread related to Cold Air-intake. I cant get a CAI because i live in florida and with hurricanes and flood the chances that ill go over a puddle and end up with a lake inside my engine are great. How about the velocity stack + short ram without heatshield...is a p-flow better? what should i do?







thanks!


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (SiCk Gti1.8t)*

The temp from the intake will make little difference if it comes from the fender or behind the battery. Either just drill holes in the bottom or the box or get a bpi flow stack and filter.


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## stevemannn (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (cincyTT)*

i bought one of these. it mounts in your engine bay but they give you a long tube to route it anywhere. the tube isnt long enought to suck up water.
personally i love this even though its quite expensive but alot of people on here are selling them.
read about it. that what sold me
http://www.bmcairfilters.com/infoCDA.asp


_Modified by stevemannn at 1:16 PM 5-27-2008_


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## SiCk Gti1.8t (Apr 22, 2008)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_The temp from the intake will make little difference if it comes from the fender or behind the battery. Either just drill holes in the bottom or the box or get a bpi flow stack and filter.

bpi flow stack and filter? whats that? is it something like a neuspeed p-flow?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (SiCk Gti1.8t)*

http://www.bpinitiatives.com/products.php $98 for both


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## SlowGolf1 (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (cincyTT)*

Ive been running the BPi stack for at least a year and a half and love it


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## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (SlowGolf1)*

Go on ebay. they have them w/ blox filters for $50 shipped! worst comes to worst you can just get a K&N filter for $40-50.

I've got a Forge velocity stack + filter on the way for a short ram.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ex-vtak (May 11, 2007)

loved my BPI kit...till i sold it to the OP


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (ex-vtak)*

Bpi and filter here for 2+years... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## blackedout18T (May 16, 2007)

does it matter if you run the bpi stack and filter without a head shield? i have a ghl cold air intake now..if i switch to bpi will i loose power?


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## Durbo20vT (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: (Yareka)*

bpi stack + aem dryflow filter since sept 06 here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
no heatshield needed










_Modified by Durbo20vT at 5:40 PM 5-29-2008_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (blackedout18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackedout18T* »_does it matter if you run the bpi stack and filter without a head shield? i have a ghl cold air intake now..if i switch to bpi will i loose power?

This is a turbo car, not NA. The heat from the turbo and compression will bring the temps out of the turbo to roughly the same temps and when it leaves the ic it will be the same temp.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (Durbo20vT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Durbo20vT* »_bpi stack + aem dryflow filter since sept 06 here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
no heatshield needed


I cant find a 6" AEM filter anywheres all I see are 5" ??


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

http://aempower.com/ViewProduc...=1222


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## Durbo20vT (Apr 30, 2006)

this is what i have, and where i got it from.
http://store.summitracing.com/...w=sku


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Durbo20vT)*

thats a better deal than strait from AEM. think you can fit the 8" one in there?


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_thats a better deal than strait from AEM. think you can fit the 8" one in there?

I think you will be at 10,000 posts within a year from now


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Rippinralf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rippinralf* »_
I think you will be at 10,000 posts within a year from now
















Nah, i wont be working out of the house here soon so i wont have time to stay online nearly as much


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## Durbo20vT (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

i think i would be able to fit the larger one...


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## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
Nah, i wont be working out of the house here soon so i wont have time to stay online nearly as much 

That sucks







 you're a staple here in the forum


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
This is a turbo car, not NA. The heat from the turbo and compression will bring the temps out of the turbo to roughly the same temps and when it leaves the ic it will be the same temp. 

This is not entirely true. The outlet temperature of the turbo is a function of 3 things; the compressor efficiency, the pressure ratio and the inlet temperature. What you will find is that a 10* increase in inlet temperature will propagate into an outlet temperature that is more than 10* higher. When you get to higher pressure ratios and less efficient compressors, a small change in inlet temperature can lead to a significant change in outlet temperature.








edit - and once you get downstream to the intercooler, the hotter inlet temperature will allow more heat to be removed (in terms of Watts), but the outlet temperature of the intercooler will still be higher than it would have with a cooler compressor inlet temperature. As the effectiveness of the intercooler approaches 100%, the outlet temperature will all approach the same temperature (ambient!). 










_Modified by leebro61 at 10:10 PM 5-29-2008_


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## kamikaze2dope (Apr 26, 2003)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (SiCk Gti1.8t)*

I live in the worst weather condition you can have.
Canadian winter...
All my dubs i owned i run the swiss box mod combine with a KN panel filter all year long.
When you search here you can see that often it's the best setup you can run and it's cheap 2.


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## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (kamikaze2dope)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kamikaze2dope* »_
When you search here you can see that often it's the best setup you can run and it's cheap 2.

it's not the best setup. Is it a good setup? yes. 
Is it the best? no. 
A proper velocity stack will yield smother airflow and will pull air in easier than a flat drop-in filter / airbox.


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## kamikaze2dope (Apr 26, 2003)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (infinityman)*

There is a velocity stack in the stock box









_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_
it's not the best setup. Is it a good setup? yes. 
Is it the best? no. 
A proper velocity stack will yield smother airflow and will pull air in easier than a flat drop-in filter / airbox.


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## 5inchMAF (Sep 12, 2007)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
This is not entirely true. The outlet temperature of the turbo is a function of 3 things; the compressor efficiency, the pressure ratio and the inlet temperature. What you will find is that a 10* increase in inlet temperature will propagate into an outlet temperature that is more than 10* higher. When you get to higher pressure ratios and less efficient compressors, a small change in inlet temperature can lead to a significant change in outlet temperature.








edit - and once you get downstream to the intercooler, the hotter inlet temperature will allow more heat to be removed (in terms of Watts), but the outlet temperature of the intercooler will still be higher than it would have with a cooler compressor inlet temperature. As the effectiveness of the intercooler approaches 100%, the outlet temperature will all approach the same temperature (ambient!). 










damn. you took the words right out of my mouth. that is _exactly_ what i was thinking 

_Quote, originally posted by *kamikaze2dope* »_There is a velocity stack in the stock box










yes there is http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by BIGGEE TALLS at 8:49 AM 5-30-2008_


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## SlowGolf1 (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (BIGGEE TALLS)*

Shielded with a air duct from the bumper to the heat shiled/box is the best set up with a stack. That is already out however, its called the Vflow


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## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (SiCk Gti1.8t)*

Just got my forge velocity stack + filter. I was really surprised. The filter is very very good qaulity. As good as a K&N for sure.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
This is not entirely true. The outlet temperature of the turbo is a function of 3 things; the compressor efficiency, the pressure ratio and the inlet temperature. What you will find is that a 10* increase in inlet temperature will propagate into an outlet temperature that is more than 10* higher. When you get to higher pressure ratios and less efficient compressors, a small change in inlet temperature can lead to a significant change in outlet temperature.








edit - and once you get downstream to the intercooler, the hotter inlet temperature will allow more heat to be removed (in terms of Watts), but the outlet temperature of the intercooler will still be higher than it would have with a cooler compressor inlet temperature. As the effectiveness of the intercooler approaches 100%, the outlet temperature will all approach the same temperature (ambient!). 









_Modified by leebro61 at 10:10 PM 5-29-2008_

While in school this is correct, in the real world you have to factor in the part about how the compressor sits an inch away from the satanic inferno-like turbine housing. Whether it is 60degF or 80degF going into the compressor, it will more than likely be equally hot as ballz coming out when your turbine housing is glowing red


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_Just got my forge velocity stack + filter. I was really surprised. The filter is very very good qaulity. As good as a K&N for sure. 



















Looks good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif what are the dims on it? 6" inlet with 3" outlet?


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## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Looks good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif what are the dims on it? 6" inlet with 3" outlet?

unfortunately the inlet is 2.5", but it is long enough that you can cut it where it goes to 3" and still be safe. That's what i'll do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram (infinityman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infinityman* »_
unfortunately the inlet is 2.5", but it is long enough that you can cut it where it goes to 3" and still be safe. That's what i'll do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

So you'll get a 3" OD tube slip it overtop trace it, cut and weld a 3" stub?


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## ex-vtak (May 11, 2007)

anybody have the blox kit from JHPUSA / Ebay ?


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_
While in school this is correct, in the real world you have to factor in the part about how the compressor sits an inch away from the satanic inferno-like turbine housing. Whether it is 60degF or 80degF going into the compressor, it will more than likely be equally hot as ballz coming out when your turbine housing is glowing red









The temperature rise of the flowing fluid will be ~equal for each inlet condition due to radiant heat from the turbine housing. For the sake of this thread (and because you are I probably the only ones who care), PM me if you want to discuss.


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## infinityman (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: Velocity Stack + short ram ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
So you'll get a 3" OD tube slip it overtop trace it, cut and weld a 3" stub?

If i can find some 3" aluminum yes i'll TIG on a little stub to it. If not, i'll cut it and just use a coupler, it shouldnt slip off.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (leebro61)*

^I gave up thinking about thermal-fluid systems when i graduated







I think the moral of the story is that you can either have hot air or hatass air coming out of the compressor; however, the difference is negligable, and is proven so on the dyno...where it really counts


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_^I gave up thinking about thermal-fluid systems when i graduated







I think the moral of the story is that you can either have hot air or hatass air coming out of the compressor; however, the difference is negligable, and is proven so on the dyno...where it really counts









Well, doing thermodynamic design engineering and working on my thermo-fluids masters... I don't have that luxury








BTW- Where it really counts is at the track! The dyno has limitations where relatively minor differences in setups (as you say) come out in the wash. My point here is not to say that there are huge gains available through decreasing your inlet temperature 5*. I just want to dispute the commonly posted 'vortex knowledge' that inlet temperature doesn't matter because you are compressing it anyway...


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (leebro61)*

touche, indeed! I try my damndest to keep my mouth shut about thermal-fluids because I really only know enough to be dangerous. An ME undergrad degree really doesn't cover schit when you think about it. Thanks again for the insight, we all sure as hell can use it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1320-20V (Sep 20, 2007)

*Re: (leebro61)*

Hello Lee, This is Vr6Fidelity, long time no see. 
The amount of pressure a turbocharger can create is proportional to the tip velocity^3. 
You need flow restriction downstream to make pressure. 
You need flow to make pressure, and if your air is hotter, your wheel will need to spin faster to move the same mass flow. 
This all creates heat.








Your air is not in the volute long enough for it to be heated by the housing. Heat from compression is nearly instantaneous.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (1320-20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1320-20V* »_Hello Lee, This is Vr6Fidelity, long time no see. 
The amount of pressure a turbocharger can create is proportional to the tip velocity^3. 
You need flow restriction downstream to make pressure. 
You need flow to make pressure, and if your air is hotter, your wheel will need to spin faster to move the same mass flow. 
This all creates heat.








Your air is not in the volute long enough for it to be heated by the housing. Heat from compression is nearly instantaneous. 


Agreed on all points. Good to see you are still around!


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

where can i find a piece of pipe that will go from the stack to the intake and have the nice Y in it so it works with the other things.


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## shotofgmplease (May 21, 2003)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_where can i find a piece of pipe that will go from the stack to the intake and have the nice Y in it so it works with the other things.

just a lil noob to intakes, help?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (ex-vtak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ex-vtak* »_anybody have the blox kit from JHPUSA / Ebay ?









Thats the eBay one, and its awesome - definetly good quality and equal to the BPI http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## blackedout18T (May 16, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

is that for the 2.0t


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Bump from the dead.

This is a thread worth remembering. I see some intake questions popping up and I know if I were do do a new intake, this is the sort of stuff I'd be looking into.


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

For what it is worth, I have a filter directly on the compressor behind the motor (bottom mount) and logging has revealed no difference in intake air temp readings vs stock location with stock airbox and a hose feeding the bottom of the airbox.


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

BlueSleeper said:


> For what it is worth, I have a filter directly on the compressor behind the motor (bottom mount) and logging has revealed no difference in intake air temp readings vs stock location with stock airbox and a hose feeding the bottom of the airbox.


Interesting....where are the temps being read(probe Location)?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

T-Boy said:


> Interesting....where are the temps being read(probe Location)?


I'm guessing he's using the stock iat sensor in the intake manifold


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLOX-2-5-VE...T-SUBARU-INFINITI-/310383868423#ht_2240wt_808

Here is basically what I've been running for 2 years now. Its durable, its a great filter and its fairly inexpensive. Works great in combination with a Forge or other brand TIP. You can find the kit for better prices. Or just buy everything separate and probably save a bit of money. I think I ended getting everything for around $35.

Basically my setup goes TIP, MAF, couple, velocity stack, filter.


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## veedub-less (Dec 18, 2007)

BlueSleeper said:


> For what it is worth, I have a filter directly on the compressor behind the motor (bottom mount) and logging has revealed no difference in intake air temp readings vs stock location with stock airbox and a hose feeding the bottom of the airbox.


it doesn't really matter where you put your filter. once that "cold air" hits the turbo it's going to get hot no matter what.

can't believe people still buy these water-sucking, waste-of-money "cold air" intakes.:banghead:


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

veedub-less said:


> it doesn't really matter where you put your filter. once that "cold air" hits the turbo it's going to get hot no matter what.
> 
> can't believe people still buy these water-sucking, waste-of-money "cold air" intakes.:banghead:


Nothing in this thread is giving any credence to CAI's.

Everything in this thread is geared toward short ram velocity stacks & related.


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## rains (May 30, 2008)

total noob question, but do velocity stacks make a lot of difference on a turbo engine?

my basic understanding is that they 'smooth' out the air going into the intake/ make for less turbulence and higher airflow. But if that air is going to hit turbine blades right away, won't the blades create turbulence, negating the effect?


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

rains said:


> total noob question, but do velocity stacks make a lot of difference on a turbo engine?
> 
> my basic understanding is that they 'smooth' out the air going into the intake/ make for less turbulence and higher airflow. But if that air is going to hit turbine blades right away, won't the blades create turbulence, negating the effect?


Creates better flow into the turbo.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

All_Euro said:


> Creates better flow into the turbo.


A 3" velocity stack flows more than a 3" pipe under identical conditions


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

veedub-less said:


> it doesn't really matter where you put your filter. once that "cold air" hits the turbo it's going to get hot no matter what.
> 
> can't believe people still buy these water-sucking, waste-of-money "cold air" intakes.:banghead:


not to sidetrack this thread, BUT as you are so bombastic about CAI I might give some inputs. CAI works to a certain degree on any car, and specially on cars that run on trackdays. Sure compressor heats up the volume of air it can compress, it only compresses MORE volume of air when the air is colder. So there will always be a benefit to CAI. 

I personally noticed a slight difference in the end of each race session, which is 40mins, before and after I took the job to run a duct from the front to filter housing. Not guessing here, this is my experience.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Here's the velocity stack in the apr stg 3

4.15" outer
3" inner


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> not to sidetrack this thread, BUT as you are so bombastic about CAI I might give some inputs. CAI works to a certain degree on any car, and specially on cars that run on trackdays. Sure compressor heats up the volume of air it can compress, it only compresses MORE volume of air when the air is colder. So there will always be a benefit to CAI.
> 
> I personally noticed a slight difference in the end of each race session, which is 40mins, before and after I took the job to run a duct from the front to filter housing. Not guessing here, this is my experience.


Not trying to start anything either but my experiments reached a different conclusion! I could go on about it but found one of my old post that pretty much covers it!



Me said:


> This is my take on this:
> 
> -If any intake feed mod (cai, wai or just a shield) is not showing a change at your IAT sensor, after it's been heated then cooled by whatever heat exchanger you have, then it's pointless.
> 
> ...


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Not trying to start anything either but my experiments reached a different conclusion! I could go on about it but found one of my old post that pretty much covers it!


Look at it this way... 

One gallon of cold air is heavier than one gallon hot air, it has more mass. I think we can all agree on that. Now there is more energy inside that cold gallon than the hot gallon as there is more oxygen in dense air. Lets hook up a compressor to each gallon and see which gallon provides most energy.... I mean I'm not sure how I can simplify this anymore... Cold is good and hot is baaad, m-kay? 

Not saying your dyno test, which does in no way represent a moving car on a track, is bull... but I am saying I do not agree with your findings. 

Ask ppl in FL. How is their turbo car on a 100F summerday compared to a 50F winterday. According to your statement it should make no difference, right? Yes, I know IC is more efficient when its cold and there are several variables to consider. One of those variables is the pre compressor temperature.


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## babarber (Nov 3, 2008)

imo the increase in airflow will yeild better results, but why suck in hot air to get better airflow.
why not get the best of both worlds with evoms vflow or 42dd tt intake.
another possibility is getting a velocity stack and fabbing your own heatsheild. 
i hate these flow vs cold arguments because i am unwilling to settle for one or the other


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## GolfCL Smooth (Jul 9, 2006)

Good to see this thread back up. A lot of the cool tech that used to live on this forum has been glossed over by the new vortex crowd. I think Steve's intake is worth throwing back into the mix. It doesn't get enough love from the non-TT 1.8T guys.

The VTDA is like the Carbon Dynamic Airbox (among others) but I like the improvements he's made over the original designs:

http://www.modshack.info/vtda.htm

I think it's the REAL best of both worlds compared to the Evoms or 42DD, especially if you don't want to live with the fully exposed intake noise every day on your commute. Plus it's always nice to support the little guys :thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> Look at it this way...
> 
> One gallon of cold air is heavier than one gallon hot air, it has more mass. I think we can all agree on that. Now there is more energy inside that cold gallon than the hot gallon as there is more oxygen in dense air. Lets hook up a compressor to each gallon and see which gallon provides most energy.... I mean I'm not sure how I can simplify this anymore... Cold is good and hot is baaad, m-kay?
> 
> ...


When I went into my experimentation, it was with a heavy bias in favor of having an insulated/shielded filter with cold fresh feed (I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of building one if I didn't believe in the theory behind it). However, I would be a total fool to ignore the results I gathered in practice despite what any theory may suggest. What the real life result told, for me and my car, was that I would be better off chasing flow vs turbo inlet temperature because none of it showed at the IAT sensor after it was compressed/heated then intercooled.

BTW the results were not skewed by dyno conditions, I tested by swapping back to back to back at the track, where all my efforts are geared towards! I then looked at logged peak and average MAF and IAT all day. I even went as far as repeating the test without water injection to confirm the findings. If lower turbo inlet temperature is not showing at the IAT sensor in my racing environment, it is hard for me to chase what makes sense on paper.

Maybe there are things that I'm missing that you can point me towards and I am honestly all ears (as long as it will show results where it counts and help me go faster)! :beer:


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

I'm gonna have to go with Marcus on this one. I did build a heat shield for my intake filter at once point and found on the road less MAF then without the heat shield and the IAT's were the same. NOW IAT's aren't the only factor in this, my current pre compressor water set up and activation point doesn't really register on the IAT but you can feel the difference between it on and it off as well as see the increase in airflow from the MAF at peak RPM and under the curve especially after peak torque is achieved. I didn't have a cold air feed but I am planning on making one soon if I get it together before the BT engine goes in I'll replay with results but it isn't high on my list.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Cryser said:


> I'm gonna have to go with Marcus on this one. I did build a heat shield for my intake filter at once point and found on the road less MAF then without the heat shield and the IAT's were the same. NOW IAT's aren't the only factor in this, my current pre compressor water set up and activation point doesn't really register on the IAT but you can feel the difference between it on and it off as well as see the increase in airflow from the MAF at peak RPM and under the curve especially after peak torque is achieved. I didn't have a cold air feed but I am planning on making one soon if I get it together before the BT engine goes in I'll replay with results but it isn't high on my list.


I would suggest you concentrate your efforts somewhere else! Not that my results are an "all end all" on the subject but as you can see in the pictures I've exhausted the variations with the fresh feed and insulated filter (I went as far as sealing the feed with my shield to eliminate all heated engine bay air from entering the system). The results stayed constant with your findings regardless of what I tried.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> When I went into my experimentation, it was with a heavy bias in favor of having an insulated/shielded filter with cold fresh feed (I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of building one if I didn't believe in the theory behind it). However, I would be a total fool to ignore the results I gathered in practice despite what any theory may suggest. What the real life result told, for me and my car, was that I would be better off chasing flow vs turbo inlet temperature because none of it showed at the IAT sensor after it was compressed/heated then intercooled.
> 
> BTW the results were not skewed by dyno conditions, I tested by swapping back to back to back at the track, where all my efforts are geared towards! I then looked at logged peak and average MAF and IAT all day. I even went as far as repeating the test without water injection to confirm the findings. If lower turbo inlet temperature is not showing at the IAT sensor in my racing environment, it is hard for me to chase what makes sense on paper.
> 
> Maybe there are things that I'm missing that you can point me towards and I am honestly all ears (as long as it will show results where it counts and help me go faster)! :beer:


All I can tell you is mine did a difference, which logic also states. Now, I thought you made a dyno comparison with a heatshield and cai and without and naturally that wont make any difference. As you had no effect on track such as I do I suggest you try again with a better heatshield and run a duct to filter. If it works for me theres no reason why you shoulnt have same effect. 
Look at the pic i posted. My heatshield is absolute. There is no hot air entering the cone filter area. Only the cold air duct thats running from front of vehicle. 

I ran some trackdays only with the shield without a cai duct and after each session I touched teh filter and it was burning hot. After cai duct and proper isolation the filter was pretty much same temperature as atmosphere while everything else in engine bay was burning hot. I had no time to measure IAT's on my trackdays as a loose PC in the car is not allowed.

* also, as we obviously don't have identical setups one thing that has effect on one car may not do the same on the other.

:wave:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> All I can tell you is mine did a difference, which logic also states. Now, I thought you made a dyno comparison with a heatshield and cai and without and naturally that wont make any difference. As you had no effect on track such as I do I suggest you try again with a better heatshield and run a duct to filter. If it works for me theres no reason why you shoulnt have same effect.
> Look at the pic i posted. My heatshield is absolute. There is no hot air entering the cone filter area. Only the cold air duct thats running from front of vehicle.
> 
> I ran some trackdays only with the shield without a cai duct and after each session I touched teh filter and it was burning hot. After cai duct and proper isolation the filter was pretty much same temperature as atmosphere while everything else in engine bay was burning hot. I had no time to measure IAT's on my trackdays as a loose PC in the car is not allowed.
> ...


As I said before, my findings are what worked for me, my car, in the racing environment that it is used (the fact that many others tested with the same results at the track with the EVO platform is what convinced me to give it a try). I am not here to refute the theory or your results and I welcome your suggestions (you are one of the small group of members of this community that I respect). With that said, I mentioned many times (and even included pictures) that I hacked a pre-existing hole in the in the TT's metal wheel arch as a fresh feed. I also didn't just run a flow restrictive duct to the filter but completely sealed the shield to the large unrestricted feed (basically a large side entrance cold air that can be viewed in the first picture I posted)! Let me ask you this:
-did you run a control test?
-where your test without water/meth injection?

These variables that I also isolated could be the reason that you are getting opposing results to mine and the handful others that also tested! :wave:


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> As I said before, my findings are what worked for me, my car, in the racing environment that it is used (the fact that many others tested with the same results at the track with the EVO platform is what convinced me to give it a try). I am not here to refute the theory or your results and I welcome your suggestions (you are one of the small group of members of this community that I respect). With that said, I mentioned many times (and even included pictures) that I hacked a pre-existing hole in the in the TT's metal wheel arch as a fresh feed. I also didn't just run a flow restrictive duct to the filter but completely sealed the shield to the large unrestricted feed (basically a large side entrance cold air that can be viewed in the first picture I posted)! Let me ask you this:
> -did you run a control test?
> -where your test without water/meth injection?
> 
> These variables that I also isolated could be the reason that you are getting opposing results to mine and the handful others that also tested! :wave:


I ran it on trackdays immediately after I got the BT setup from PPT. Had two trackdays before I ran the cold air duct and closed the heat shield completely. 3rd trackday the car had better stamina after 20-30mins racing. No other changes made. And filter was much cooler to touch when I entered pitlane after 40mins. 

I was not running WMI at that time. 

I think the fact I'm running my billet 3071R not at max capacity plays a role. If it was a red hot glowing K04 there might not be any difference... what turbo are you running?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> I ran it on trackdays immediately after I got the BT setup from PPT. Had two trackdays before I ran the cold air duct and closed the heat shield completely. 3rd trackday the car had better stamina after 20-30mins racing. No other changes made. And filter was much cooler to touch when I entered pitlane after 40mins.
> 
> I was not running WMI at that time.
> 
> I think the fact I'm running my billet 3071R not at max capacity plays a role. If it was a red hot glowing K04 there might not be any difference... what turbo are you running?


There you go, we have our answer! Not really a controlled test! To have viable results, your test would have to be conducted:

1) Same day/conditions 

2) You would need to do control tests to confirm the findings. For example I ran cold-air then warm-air then cold-air again with water injection (morning session). Then disconnected the water injection and did cold-warm-cold again.

To answer your question, I run stock K04 pushing a lot of heat but the turbo used should not be affecting the results. I bet that better testing on your part would yield different results, if you are open to suggestions! (think of it as comparing numbers from different dyno in different conditions, the results are not comparable).:beer:


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> There you go, we have our answer! Not really a controlled test! To have viable results, your test would have to be conducted:
> 
> 1) Same day/conditions
> 
> ...


''


Well, theres your problem. You run a red glowing K04. You probably wont notice anything on a maxed out turbo.

As I told you I cant have a laptop in the car when I'm racing so I cant log anything, I will however say again, there IS a difference whether you like to believe it or not. 

:beer:


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## carcraz (Jan 25, 2011)

Gulfstream said:


> All I can tell you is mine did a difference, which logic also states. Now, I thought you made a dyno comparison with a heatshield and cai and without and naturally that wont make any difference. As you had no effect on track such as I do I suggest you try again with a better heatshield and run a duct to filter. If it works for me theres no reason why you shoulnt have same effect.
> Look at the pic i posted. My heatshield is absolute. There is no hot air entering the cone filter area. Only the cold air duct thats running from front of vehicle.
> 
> I ran some trackdays only with the shield without a cai duct and after each session I touched teh filter and it was burning hot. After cai duct and proper isolation the filter was pretty much same temperature as atmosphere while everything else in engine bay was burning hot. I had no time to measure IAT's on my trackdays as a loose PC in the car is not allowed.
> ...


i wonder wat heatshield materials u used?
as i have a open pod + velocity stack with a partition made of aluminium sheet to isolate from the turbine. yet its still burning hot when i touched the air filter. confused here on how u can achieve normal temp. 
mine is a B5 passat, longitudinal engine

hope to hear from you...


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

carcraz said:


> i wonder wat heatshield materials u used?
> as i have a open pod + velocity stack with a partition made of aluminium sheet to isolate from the turbine. yet its still burning hot when i touched the air filter. confused here on how u can achieve normal temp.
> mine is a B5 passat, longitudinal engine
> 
> hope to hear from you...


Its a Swedish made BSR aluminum shield on which I placed some rubberlist to seal it when I close the bonnet. Then I have a 55mm duct running from front bumper into the cone area. It's black so it's hard to see but it runs beside the battery:




Don't want to sidetrack this thread completely... I believe OP was talking about velocity stacks. :thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Gulfstream said:


> ''
> 
> 
> Well, theres your problem. You run a red glowing K04. You probably wont notice anything on a maxed out turbo.
> ...


OK, I guess we have exhausted the topic and we'll only agree to disagree! You have your way of testing and your results, I have mine. I just don't seem to grasp how your logic went from "colder denser air going in = better registered temp at the IAT sensor" to "the rule don't apply to K04s because of the heat they produce". Let's leave it as that and move on!

BTW where I race, the sanctioning body which is the SCCA won't allow a loose laptop either! Racers strap data logging equipment, like everything else on board, to get the invaluable data that they need!


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

veedub-less said:


> it doesn't really matter where you put your filter. once that "cold air" hits the turbo it's going to get hot no matter what.
> 
> can't believe people still buy these water-sucking, waste-of-money "cold air" intakes.:banghead:


:facepalm:

How about you provide some evidence? Although mines not off the shelf, I have a custom made 2.5" aluminum intake to wheel well. IAT temperature right before the compressor housing were reduced with my setup. ( On stock TIP/Boot, I have a custom TIP now though. ) How much did it cost to make mine? Less than $100, from compressor inlet to airfilter, including the MAF adapter/TIP. Would I buy an off the shelf CAI? Never. ( I am cheap )

EDIT: Has anyone here even tested IAT temperature other than me AT the compressor housing and right After the housing? Testing the manifold is kinda pointless IMO... I've never seen a CAI in any car ever effect an IAT at the manifold, or maybe I am missing something?


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## shaft6s9 (Oct 11, 2008)

What's best size to use? Or is there a best size? One I've found is 4.5" going in to 3". This one hole top is 4.5" not rolled over so centre is small.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

shaft6s9 said:


> What's best size to use? Or is there a best size? One I've found is 4.5" going in to 3". This one hole top is 4.5" not rolled over so centre is small.


 The center of the velocity stack should be your MAF size. 

The outside diameter of the velocity stock is not the real question. The quality of the velocity stack shape is the question. The better the shape the better the airflow on the outer regions...which is really what you're improving with a velocity stack design. 

So...what's your MAF size? Stock 1.8t MAF?


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## shaft6s9 (Oct 11, 2008)

The 2 i've seen on fleebay and pref the 1st one as it's got no sides like 2nd one. What you think?? Yes i'm running stock MAF. 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270749435432?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270855709762?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

shaft6s9 said:


> The 2 i've seen on fleebay and pref the 1st one as it's got no sides like 2nd one. What you think?? Yes i'm running stock MAF.
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270749435432?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270855709762?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 The blox velocity stack looks nicer. 

Don't forget to get the transition tubing and stuff too.


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## shaft6s9 (Oct 11, 2008)

groggory said:


> The blox velocity stack looks nicer.
> 
> Don't forget to get the transition tubing and stuff too.


 Transititon tube, Also what would i do with air pipe that goes to bottom of stock filter housing from air pump i think????? Bet think im thick?? Wouldnt believe im senior BMW technician too would you.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

shaft6s9 said:


> Transititon tube, Also what would i do with air pipe that goes to bottom of stock filter housing from air pump i think????? Bet think im thick?? Wouldnt believe im senior BMW technician too would you.


 The stock MAF is 2.5" I think (please measure to be sure). You'll need a piece of silicone that transitions from 2.75" to the 3" of that velocity stack.

The SAI pump intake pipe (the flex pipe that plugs into the side of the airbox) will need a filter attached to it. I think a 1.5" k&n filter hose clamped onto it is par for the course.

So in short you'll need...

2.75" (check me) -> 3" silicone coupler
2.75" hose clamp
3" hose clamp
velocity stack
6" filter
6" hose clamp
1.5" filter
1.5" hose clamp


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## babarber (Nov 3, 2008)

stock maf is 70mm or 2.75 inches


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

babarber said:


> stock maf is 70mm or 2.75 inches


 Thx.


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

so for my 28rs setup im in the middle of building, if I go from my 3" inlet, to a tt 225 maf, also 3" to the BPI velocity stack and filter also 3", I should be pretty godo to go then ey? Any possible hiccups in this setup or is it as easy as it sounds? I guess I will need a 3" coupler obviously for my inlet to MAF, then obviously t clamps but besides that, the silicone in the bpi kit will come right off the maf, to the stack and then the cone, will this still fit fine if I havent relocated my battery, I need to go take some measurements when I get home...for a mkiv gli btw...


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

jagt21VR6 said:


> so for my 28rs setup im in the middle of building, if I go from my 3" inlet, to a tt 225 maf, also 3" to the BPI velocity stack and filter also 3", I should be pretty godo to go then ey? Any possible hiccups in this setup or is it as easy as it sounds? I guess I will need a 3" coupler obviously for my inlet to MAF, then obviously t clamps but besides that, the silicone in the bpi kit will come right off the maf, to the stack and then the cone, will this still fit fine if I havent relocated my battery, I need to go take some measurements when I get home...for a mkiv gli btw...


The velocity stack will fit fine with the short cone. You'd need to measure for the long cone...

That plan of pipe -> coupler -> maf -> coupler -> stack -> filter sounds right.

You can use worm gear clamps on all this. This is all non-pressurized inlet stuff. No need for T-Bolt clamps here. However, you should use T-Bolt clamps throughout the charge air side.

You'll also need a filter for your SAI. I don't know what size that is. Contact 42dd and see if they'll sell you their nice little filter setup they made for their velocity stack setup. It's top notch.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

you should have a good 3inchs between the flowstack and the maf, siliconeintakes.com or what ever sells pipe joiners just put one of those between the flowstack and the maf and you should be good. It helps reduce turbulence across the MAF


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

Doesnt the BPi kit come with some sort of silicone pipe? Or is it not long enough you are saying?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Cryser said:


> you should have a good 3inchs between the flowstack and the maf, siliconeintakes.com or what ever sells pipe joiners just put one of those between the flowstack and the maf and you should be good. It helps reduce turbulence across the MAF


3" between means a 5 or 6" coupler right?

The siliconeintake.com coupler is only 3", which means maybe 1" betwen the velocity stack and the MAF. To get 3" he'd have to buy a 1 foot piece of tubing, then cut it down to 5 or 6"

Does that sound right?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

groggory said:


> 3" between means a 5 or 6" coupler right?
> 
> The siliconeintake.com coupler is only 3", which means maybe 1" betwen the velocity stack and the MAF. To get 3" he'd have to buy a 1 foot piece of tubing, then cut it down to 5 or 6"
> 
> Does that sound right?


I have a coupler off the flowstack, a pipe joiner and another coupler... ends up being like 5-6" so if you can find a coupler that long that should work. From the outside it looks like a long silicone coupler with Vclamps at abut halfway. The pipe joiner fits inside the couplers.


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

yes I see your point, bc it would be an inch or 2 on the maf and an inch or 2 on the stack and wed want 4-6" inbetween...correcT?

Yea it might jsut be easier to have 2 couplers then run a pipe joiner, what type of material is that, aluminum?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Cryser said:


> I have a coupler off the flowstack, a pipe joiner and another coupler... ends up being like 5-6" so if you can find a coupler that long that should work. From the outside it looks like a long silicone coupler with Vclamps at abut halfway. The pipe joiner fits inside the couplers.


Would you mind linking to some specific products?


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

what type of material is this pipe joiner? I assume aluminum? so its just a straight 3" pipe pretty much, that fits inetween the coupler off the MAF and the coupler off the velocity stack correct?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

jagt21VR6 said:


> what type of material is this pipe joiner? I assume aluminum? so its just a straight 3" pipe pretty much, that fits inetween the coupler off the MAF and the coupler off the velocity stack correct?


At that point just get a longer pipe. I hate more joints


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

any by longer pipe you mean attatching the 2 couplers, or instead of 2 couplers just have a longer silicone 3" pipe that attatches to both the maf and the stack?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Yep

Buy 1 ft of 3" silicone tube. Cut it to 6". Use two worm gear hose clamps on that. That'll give you 3-4" of separation between the maf and stack.


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

that would be this guy right here huh? Thanks!!!

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/prod...d=192&osCsid=a5824aaa4bcfd3927bd0fc69d1fd5675


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Yep.

Don't forget the coupler from tip to maf and enough worm clamps


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

I only need a clamp for the maf to silicone and silicone to stack, one of which comes with the stack I believe...and then obviously like 3 or so for the inlet side from turbo to cobrahead, to inlet and to maf. sounds like I need 4 all together...


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

BSD said:


> :facepalm:
> 
> EDIT: Has anyone here even tested IAT temperature other than me AT the compressor housing and right After the housing? Testing the manifold is kinda pointless IMO... I've never seen a CAI in any car ever effect an IAT at the manifold, or maybe I am missing something?


Unfortunately the sensor that is in charge of registering IAT is located in the manifold. If the work done prior to that spot is not making a difference, then you have mostly failed since timing allowed and pulled by the ECU is using that input. What is pointless is to impede flow to get "cold air" that doesn't make it to the manifold.


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

I jsut watched gladiator last night on hbo, god I hate joaquin phoenix in that movie


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

Bringing it back for some clarification from you guru's. From my reading, it's seeming, the velocity stack smooths out the air flow, and helps it enter the compressor? Am I completely off here. I'm COMPLETELY NEW to the Turbo/Forced Induction game. On my Vr, I had a cheap CAI. It did it's job. On this car I refuse to cut any corners. I was going to buy the V-Flow, but it seems, for $80 I cna buy a K&N filter, and a velocity stack and be done there. Which would shorten my budget so I could buy a new TIP also. So what velocity stacks are better? Ebay seemed to be a consenses, but it all sounds cheap and bull crap like the eletronic superchagers...:screwy: AFE makes an amazing kit found herehttp://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--1.8T/Engine/Intake/ES264124/ I was dead set on buying that now. It looks amazingly put together. Read around here, everyone says it's a waste of money. I'm putting an exhaust sytem together, purchased a splitter, and will be getting a tune or re flash at H20i. So I would like to get this intake situation adressed right meow. All help is greatly appreciated, if you wanna make fun of me for not reading intot hings enough thats fine to, I don't know any better, and deserve it. Thank you:thumbup:


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## stevemannn (Apr 17, 2008)

just get a blox stack,and filter off ebay for 60$ and call it a day

i wouldnt spend 200$ on that intake that is gonna do the exact same thing.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

stevemannn said:


> just get a blox stack,and filter off ebay for 60$ and call it a day
> 
> i wouldnt spend 200$ on that intake that is gonna do the exact same thing.


I understand that to an extent. But how are you holding the filter steady. I ran a cone on maf on my vr temporarily, and it bounced and flopped around. I wasn't a big fan of that. I appreciate your input.


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## stevemannn (Apr 17, 2008)

its a pretty big filter,and heavy too.. it moves around,but im sure you can figure something out for a few $$ to hold it down if its really bothering you. ive ran it like that for years,and never had a problem. dont spend 200$ on an intake man, youll regret it


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

stevemannn said:


> its a pretty big filter,and heavy too.. it moves around,but im sure you can figure something out for a few $$ to hold it down if its really bothering you. ive ran it like that for years,and never had a problem. dont spend 200$ on an intake man, youll regret it


I think I would to an extent, but it kools very nice. So what'd you do with the smog setup? Breather and just let it dangle too?


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## stevemannn (Apr 17, 2008)

just zipped tied it to 1 of the hoses comming off the intake mani,and i had a small filter i put on it.
its cheap, it works,and it sounds great lol.. cant beat that lol


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

stevemannn said:


> just zipped tied it to 1 of the hoses comming off the intake mani,and i had a small filter i put on it.
> its cheap, it works,and it sounds great lol.. cant beat that lol


I understand. I'm not saying I'm rich. But money isnt really a problem I just want something clean.


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