# Rough shifts



## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

Ever since I picked up my V8 Touareg I've noticed that the transition from stopped to starting can sometimes be rough, and that the shift from 1st to 2nd is often a fairly violent jerk. The worst transmission problem on my Touareg is experienced when I'm in stop-and-go traffic going around 5mpg in 1st gear then accelerate normally. The shift to 2nd is extreemly rough. I've had a lot of cars, and driven even more models as rentals and I've never experienced anything this rough.
I took my Touareg into the shop last week to fix this, and another problem I was having, and the car is still at the dealer. When I talked to my service advisor on Friday he said that this is a fairly common problem with later VIN cars. Evidently, they had to reprogram the transmission to meet some EPA regulation and that is causing rough shifting in the lower gears.
Is anyone else experiencing this problem? If so, you should complain to your local VW service department. VW evidently knows about the problem, but unless there are enough complaints they may not do anything about it right away (ever?).


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## wreck111 (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: Rough shifts (darylhuff)*

I have a 26XX serial number. The T-Reg has been perfect other than a wheel balance on a road force balancer. No not a single problem.!,000 miles shofts and rides better than any MB or BMW i have ever had.Last being a 2002 ML 500.


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## zbwmy (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Rough shifts (darylhuff)*

Daryl,
I feel that rough shift more from 2nd to 1st on the downshift around 5mph. VIN # 40xxx.


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## VizStorm (Dec 27, 2003)

this "problem" is called a powerful engine. Its not "rough" its sporty.


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## samster22 (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Rough shifts (darylhuff)*

I'm having the same identical problem. I am just waiting for the transmission to break before bringing in for service. As incompetent as the VW dealer here in Miami is, I am sure they'll tell me that's the way it's supposed to be. I also come from having a Mercedes ML and then a 4.4 X5. With all the problems I've had with my Toureg, I'm beginning to feel like I downgraded from the X5. Oh well, I only have 37 months left on the lease.


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## Rob in CT (Sep 15, 2003)

*Re: Rough shifts (darylhuff)*

vin 31xxx. only lurches when I apply throttle in 1st gear from a slow roll, not from a dead stop. Two Cayennes I test drove did the same thing.


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## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: (VizStorm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VizStorm* »_this "problem" is called a powerful engine. Its not "rough" its sporty.

I've driven the BMW M5 and Mercedes S55, more "powerful" than the V8 Touareg, and they have much smoother shifts than my Touareg. No, I'd call it bad design.


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## stevetjr (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: (darylhuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darylhuff* »_
I've driven the BMW M5 and Mercedes S55, more "powerful" than the V8 Touareg, and they have much smoother shifts than my Touareg. No, I'd call it bad design.

There transmissions don't have to go off-road, drive an AWD system, and lastly don't weigh over 6K pounds.


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## wineman (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Rough shifts (darylhuff)*

Daryl
Take a look at this post over in the Pepper forum and you'll see it is'nt just an issue with T-regs. Now if only VW has the software updates the Pepper has then you could go down and have you dealer apply them, I'm going to ask my dealer at the 5000mi service about it.
http://forums.rennlist.com/ren...98019


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## mudman2 (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Rough shifts (wineman)*

The drive by wire system DME was remapped to give better proportional control of the pedal (ratio of pedal movement to throttle response).
It works great, no more lurching.


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## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: (stevetjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevetjr* »_
There transmissions don't have to go off-road, drive an AWD system, and lastly don't weigh over 6K pounds.

If that makes you sleep better, great. I expect more from a $40,000+ car and it can be done -- take a look at the Porshe forum link above. I'm not willing to accept mediocrity.


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## stevetjr (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: (darylhuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darylhuff* »_
If that makes you sleep better, great. I expect more from a $40,000+ car and it can be done -- take a look at the Porshe forum link above. I'm not willing to accept mediocrity.

Either am I, but I would rather work with my dealer than complain about everything. It is a brand new SUV and there are bound to be some refinements and corrections (as evidence by the number of mid model production changes to date) but I would rather have them figure out correctly rather that react to one " complaint " that is blown out of proportion.


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

Doesn't the newest revision of the X5 V8 have the same ZF 6-spd auto that the T-reg, A8, Phaeton, 7-series, XJ, etc. use??


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## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: (stevetjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stevetjr* »_
Either am I, but I would rather work with my dealer than complain about everything. It is a brand new SUV and there are bound to be some refinements and corrections (as evidence by the number of mid model production changes to date) but I would rather have them figure out correctly rather that react to one " complaint " that is blown out of proportion.

I'm not sure I understand your point. One of the purposes of forums such as this is so that folks can share their experiences. Apparently others are seeing the same problem including Cayenne owners.
My original post was to inform others of the problem I am having. Hopefully others that are having the same problem will take some comfort in the fact that their problem is not unique and feel empowered to ask VW to fix the problem. More information is usually preferable to less.
I apologize if you interpreted my post as an attack on the Touareg line. I love my Touareg and hope that VW can quickly solve the numerous small and large problems associated with this first model year car. I hope we can agree that sharing information is useful.


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## WISVW (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Rough shifts (mudman2)*

mudman2
Are you saying you had this done to a Touareg? Man would I love to have that done. That is the only complaint about mine if that was gone I would be in heaven. Need more info if you can supply it so I can run it by my service guy! 
Thanks


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## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Rough shifts (darylhuff)*

I got my car back yesterday (7days in the shop this time). The dealer finally got clearance from VWoA to replace the differential locking motor on day 5. The sad part is the error code they read out on day one told them specifically that was the problem causing the "Drive more slowely or reselect" message in the MFI.
Unfortunately, this had nothing to do with rough shifts. I took the car out for a short drive and confirmed that the problem was unchanged.
I talked with the manager of the VW service shop and he confirmed that the rough shifts/lurching is a known problem with Touareg transmission. I have a V8 and evidently the problem is more pronounced on the V6 models. VW is looking into the problem but it is unclear what priority this is for them, or when a fix will be made available. In the mean time, all the owners with affected cars just have to drive a car that lurches on the 1st->2nd and sometimes 2nd->3rd transition. The service tech that when for a test ride with me acknowledged that the problem is putting extra stress on the transmission.
If you're experiencing the same problem you should let your dealer know you'd like to see a fix. It is generally true that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. If enough affected owners express concern they may bump the priority of their investigation.


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## SlvrA3 (Oct 30, 2003)

If it is a real issue that VWoA can eventually repair, I'll be happy to bring mine in for a fix when it's offered.
On the other hand, if this is something that time will prove to be normal, might I suggest shifting to Tiptronic mode and prevent the transmission from shifting to 1st gear. Transmissions from other makes usually start in 2nd gear and avoid 1st unless you're in sport mode or jump the throttle. The T-reg transmission always finds first, which will cause a lurch. Applying this age-old trick from stick-shifters will minimize unnecessary shifts to 1st gear.
I also noticed that the Touareg shifts much smoother when you're off the gas.


_Modified by TReg510 at 1:05 PM 1-15-2004_


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## CTTouareg (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: Rough shifts (darylhuff)*

I have this exact problem with my V8. The shop foreman and I went for a ride - I duplicated the problem for him. He said it was "normal" but I wasn't the first to complain either. I too have used Tiptronic to prevent the T from doing this. Seems a little silly to have to play like this, but if it saves the tranny until VWoA wakes up, then so be it.
FYI - the shop foreman has also told me that they've replaced a tranny or two already. Huge job - the entire engine and tranny is lowered from the frame as a module. They claim it's actually easier to do things this way. I just hope that they know how to put them back together...


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## WalterMooreInLA (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: Rough shifts (darylhuff)*

We've had exactly the same problems -- more noticeable when downshifting at low speeds. We've taken the car back to the dealer again and again, and have now asked VW to buy the car back. Has anyone else out there found a dealer who can fix this? Or perhaps VW has refunded your money? I'd be eager to hear!


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Rough shifts (WalterMooreInLA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WalterMooreInLA* »_We've had exactly the same problems -- more noticeable when downshifting at low speeds. We've taken the car back to the dealer again and again, and have now asked VW to buy the car back. Has anyone else out there found a dealer who can fix this? Or perhaps VW has refunded your money? I'd be eager to hear!

If you're talking about the rough downshift in sport mode, that is normal with this vehicle and there ain't nothing you're going to do about it. My Treg shifts beautifully in Drive, but slow downshifts in sport mode are more abrupt. It appears to be due to a) the car trying to do it quickly (that's why it's called 'Sport' mode folks) and b) the fact that it also raises the revs to match (because it assumes you are driving 'Sporty' while in 'Sport' mode).
I don't mind this at all, but then I rarely putter around slowly in sport mode; I only use it when I'm driving sport. In Drive, my Treg is very smooth. My advice is; when you're driving little Timmy to school or running the store for milk, keep it in Drive.
If you think the Treg is bad, go drive an X5 4.4 in sport mode and watch it hunt for gears all over the place. My buddy and I laugh when we take his 4.4 on drives through windy roads. The thing hunts and hunts up and down for the right gear, holds gears too long, shifts hard. And guess what? BMW says 'that's normal'.
Go figure.


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## WalterMooreInLA (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: Rough shifts (Archimedes)*

Sport mode? I don't think we have "sport mode." In a year of going to the dealer with this problem, the dealer never attributed it to "sport mode." Nor is this my first 4x4. I had an Explorer, and it shifted just fine. Something is VERY wrong with this car.


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## setinhi (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Rough shifts (Archimedes)*

Mine is the opposite. 1-2 upshifts in Drive can be very lurchy, even with a steady right foot. It's at its worst after start-up, then smooths out slightly. On hills, the shifts from 1-2-3 with steady throttle are unpredicatble or don't happen at all--it just stays in the last gear it was in. If I lift off the throttle slightly going uphill, it sometimes downshifts violently.Shifts are smooth and predictable but crisper in Sport and I don't get the lurching. I've already had the reflash.
Can't they take the brains out of this computer and just make it work like a plain old automatic? Even my old 2-speed Powerglide Corvair had smoother shifts!


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## WalterMooreInLA (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: Rough shifts (setinhi)*

We've had exactly the same experience going uphill. In particular, there's a hill with a speedbump, and when we roll over it, it's as if someone -- the computer? -- is suddenly downshifting AND applying the brakes.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Rough shifts (WalterMooreInLA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WalterMooreInLA* »_Sport mode? I don't think we have "sport mode."

I'm sorry, you can't be serious, are you?
You don't notice that little 'S' on the shifter stack?


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: Rough shifts (WalterMooreInLA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WalterMooreInLA* »_Sport mode? I don't think we have "sport mode."

Oh ... never mind


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## WalterMooreInLA (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: Rough shifts (henna gaijin)*

My mistake. We do have the "S." We'ver never used it; probably never will. I'm sure if it explained the rough shifting, delayed acceleration, and pulling to the right, the dealer would have mentioned same.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Rough shifts (WalterMooreInLA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WalterMooreInLA* »_My mistake. We do have the "S." We'ver never used it; probably never will. I'm sure if it explained the rough shifting, delayed acceleration, and pulling to the right, the dealer would have mentioned same.

You're ripping on the vehicle, but you didn't even notice that it had a sport mode in the tranny? You do know your Treg is AWD, right?


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## mklui (May 10, 2001)

*Re: (darylhuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darylhuff* »_
I've driven the BMW M5 and Mercedes S55, more "powerful" than the V8 Touareg, and they have much smoother shifts than my Touareg. No, I'd call it bad design.

I have a V6 (30,000 miles now), and I did notice the shifts were getting noticeably more rough. Because the V6 is really underpowered, it shifts very often, and it was so bad that I told myself I will get rid of the car for a X5 or a 5 series, and no more VW. Strangely, after the 30,000 miles service done (plus a few recalls) last week, the car shifts so.... much better. I don't know exactly what fixes it, that's why I am trying to decode what recalls were done on the car. They probably reprogrammed the transmission or something. I doubt we had the same problem though. So, it changes how I feel about the car, now... I will get rid of the car when the new X5 comes out.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (mklui)*

My guess is your dealership may just be on the ball and saw there was a TSB (not a recall) for an updated transmission flash and they went ahead and did it.


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## setinhi (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (mklui)*

I'd wait on the X5 until they work out the first year bugs. From what I read, the current model's first year almost makes ours look good by comparison. Ditto for the ML Mercedes. Both vehicles had a lot to do with lowering their manufacturers reputations for quality.
I had a first-year Tribute. Fun car, but full of bugs. The most exciting was stalling as you lifted off the accelerator, as when exiting a freeway. Whee!


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## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: (darylhuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darylhuff* »_
I've driven the BMW M5 and Mercedes S55, more "powerful" than the V8 Touareg, and they have much smoother shifts than my Touareg. No, I'd call it bad design.

I do not understand this. How can you possibly say it might be bad design. What evidence is there to say "...bad design"?


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## setinhi (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (trexer001)*

I think the fault is in the programming for Drive. It's trying to anticipate too many things and is making a lot of bad decisions. Instead of smooth and unobtrusive shifts, it tries to help you slow down, get ready to pass, etc., when you don't want to. I'd say the transmission design itself is fine, based on the way it behaves in Sport.
I say pull its plug and let the transmission make its own shifts by sensing load, speed, and torque. Let the driver do the anticipating and the tranny carry it out. But then, simplicity doesn't appeal to modern German engineers.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (setinhi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *setinhi* »_I think the fault is in the programming for Drive. It's trying to anticipate too many things and is making a lot of bad decisions. Instead of smooth and unobtrusive shifts, it tries to help you slow down, get ready to pass, etc., when you don't want to. I'd say the transmission design itself is fine, based on the way it behaves in Sport. 

And based all the posts here, I'd say it all depends on your car. My Treg is exactly the opposite. In drive it's silky smooth and doesn't try to downshift into engine braking at all. And when it does finally downshift at a stop it does so very smoothly.
In Sport, on the other hand, it does downshift harder and quicker, particularly at lower speeds. But there is a reason it does that. It's because it is assuming you are driving 'sporty' and want it to shift quick, hold shifts longer and downshift sooner. When I'm driving the Treg very sporty, the Sport mode is fantastic and it performs great. However, if I leave it in sport and putter around town, it feels harsh. That's why I don't do that. I keep it in Drive when I'm cruising around.
I for one, love the sound in Sport as the motor revs to match the quicker downshift.


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## setinhi (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (Archimedes)*

I'll see if they'll re-flash it next time I'm in. I use Sport more than I thought I would, because of the throttle and/or downshift lag when I floor it in Drive, like when entering a freeway or trying to pass someone. I agree that Sport is too aggressive when you're stuck in traffic or not in a hurry.


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## WalterMooreInLA (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (mklui)*

You know, you're absolutely right. If I had bothered to notice the "S" on the shifter, then the car would never have pulled to the right; it wouldn't hesitate when you try to accelerate; and the shifting wouldn't be so jerky. That must be the problem.


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## Archimedes (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (setinhi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *setinhi* »_I'll see if they'll re-flash it next time I'm in. I use Sport more than I thought I would, because of the throttle and/or downshift lag when I floor it in Drive, like when entering a freeway or trying to pass someone. I agree that Sport is too aggressive when you're stuck in traffic or not in a hurry.

What year and vin range is your car? I'm wondering if mine was flashed already, either at delivery or during servicing, because I'm happy with the way mine shifts. But then I've always owned trucks and 4wds so I'm used to the way they tend to drive. The Treg is definately more 'truck' than 'car' in that regard.
I love the sport mode, but don't use it much due to the type of driving I do. Love it in the mountains though.


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## setinhi (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (Archimedes)*

46xxx. I did the reset procedure on Friday (turn key on, do not start car, floor throttle for 5 seconds, lift throttle, remove key). I thought it was anecdotal, but it worked! Shifts are back to normal. I love the placebo effect!


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