# Phaeton in ICU (Complete Engine Replacement)



## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Phaeton in ICU*

Today has not been good, my Phaeton may be severely damaged. It started out on my drive to work (37 miles), when after a few miles the "low coolant" warning light came on. I thought "well it's probably a bit low, I'll keep an eye on the temperature guage and see if it goes up". It didn't move off 200 so I kept going. Just as I was exiting the freeway, I glanced at the oil temp guage and was shocked to see in in the red! Now I was worried and pulled off to the side to check it out. At that moment the engine clattered, the low oil pressure warning came on and the engine quit. 
I opened the hood and found no steaming or hissing, the oil was full, but decided to call roadside assistance and have the car towed. Surprisingly, the the engine temp still read 200 but the oil temp was pegged. 
When the flat bed arrived, I got out the towing hook and went to screw it in when I noticed that there was a bash to the lower right front grill just below the tow hook. It appears some piece of debris, (quite a bit around since Wilma) must have been kicked up and hit the car. I am the only one to drive this car and I never felt or heard an impact, but it seems whatever hit either punctured the radiator or something connected to it, causing loss of coolant. What I can't figure is why the water temp never read high, I was watching it the whole time! 
So, the car is in the shop and I'm waiting on an evaluation. I'm afraid the engine is toast, but maybe the safety cut in in time to save it. This is crazy but I feel like I have a loved one in the hospital. 
BTW the folks at roadside assistance and PCC were fantastic and took care of everything. I'll keep you posted on further developments.
Rob


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## taygeorge5288 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

How many Phaetons are in areas hit by this years hurricanes. Katrina here, I know someone in Florida was hit with Ivan last year. There was massive amounts of debris in my area that is just now going away. This wasnt much of a problem due to the lack of gas.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (dcowan699)*

Thanks David, I'm feeling kind of low and keep kicking myself for not stopping as soon as the low coolant light came on. But it is perplexing that the temp gauge never went up.
Rob


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_This is crazy but I feel like I have a loved one in the hospital.

Oh Rob! I'm so sorry to hear this. Let me know where to send the get-well card. I know what you mean -- I get the same feeling that I have a good friend who's in the CICU right now awaiting test results.


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## dtwphaeton (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

I would have done exactly what you did -- figured that if oil temp didn't rise, it could wait until I got where I was going. Sure hope all works out OK. Joe


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

I am very sorry for your troubles. I would feel the same way if it happened to mine.
Everything you describe is consistent with a loss of oil. Are you sure the light you saw was for "low coolant" and not "low oil". See post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1863263 for all the symbols. That symbol for low oil is supposed to look like an oil can, but looks more like a watering can. The "lack of coolant" symbol is actually the same as the "coolant overheating" symbol.
If in fact this is what happened it would explain why the coolant temperature didn't rise, the oil temperature did, and then when the oil level was sufficiently low, the oil pressure died.
Hopefully the engine shutting down automatically with the low oil pressure, preventing serious damage.
_Modified by car_guy at 10:01 AM 11-23-2005_


_Modified by car_guy at 4:50 PM 11-25-2005_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_Everything you describe is consistent with a loss of oil. 

I dunno, if he lost oil the dipstick wouldn't read full and he'd see oil all over the place. He said the low coolent light came on. (But he saw no steam?)
I continue to be optimistic he Will be OK. But I'm worried now about the transmission.

_Modified by Paldi at 11:33 PM 11-25-2005_


_Modified by Paldi at 12:20 AM 11-26-2005_


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*

I hope you're right. You would expect to see some oil on the ground if it hadn't all run out while the car was moving. Sometimes when I try to get an oil level reading I have to do it several times as the dipstick picks up oil from the dipstick tube walls.
BTW, are we sure that the oil cooler is of an oil/water type? Does that mean that it's trying to cool oil with 200 deg. F. water? Or does the water come from some other source than the engine coolant and has another radiator to cool the water?
Most oil coolers I am familiar with are of the oil/air type, that is the oil runs through a small radiator exposed to moving air to cool it directly. That's why the oil cooler (radiator) is placed behind an air intake grill.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (car_guy)*

Definitely oil and water with in/out pipes for each, so I think yes, they are using 200 degree water to cool the transmission.
Look close at my photo posted above - there's a rubber flap or baffle that actually prevents air from blowing through the grill into the oil cooler location.

_Modified by Paldi at 7:08 PM 11-25-2005_


_Modified by Paldi at 12:22 AM 11-26-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_BTW, are we sure that the oil cooler is of an oil/water type? Does that mean that it's trying to cool oil with 200 deg. F. water?

I think the design of the oil cooler may vary by engine model. The W12 engine has its own oil to air heat exchanger (radiator) mounted in the lower right corner of the car, it is supplied with air by the intake surrounding the right front fog light. In the picture below, you can see the two oil lines (supply and return) that lead to this cooler.
I am not familiar with the design of the V8 engine, which is what Robert has in his car.
Michael
*W12 Engine*


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

I've edited my posts to reflect my current thinking that this cooler is for transmission ATF fluid. There are two water connections and two oil (ATF) connections. If this part was damaged and coolant leaked out or mixed with ATF, there could be serious implications to the transmission.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

The little radiator behind the passenger side front foglight is an engine coolant auxiliary radiator. There may also be an oil cooler in the vicinity, but the one to which I am referring looks almost like a turbo intercooler. 
This radiator is water-to-air.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (chrisj428)*

I'll take a photo of the one I have in the garage. Post it here later.
Here's the part number that's on it. (Camera not working at present.)









_Quote »_3DO. 409. 061. G
14 040108
BEHR B0222

It's a solid can (approx. 6" x 4" x 3") made of ribbed aluminum with four inlet/outlets on the bottom. Two of them are metal pipes held on with nuts and the other two are hose connections held with clamps.. Air does not pass through it.
The metal tubes leak a light oily substance like mineral oil.
#2 PTB



_Modified by Paldi at 7:57 PM 11-27-2005_


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*

Well, I've got the report, seems like the lower grill and that aux. radiator behind the foglight was punctured by road debris and caused the loss of coolant rather quickly. The temp. gauge, being out of the coolant, did not register the overheat condition and I did not interpret the other conditions soon enough. 
This has nothing to do with a vehicle fault, so I've filed a claim with my insurance company. The dealer will fix the leak and then start up the engine to see if it's toast. I'm not hopeful that the engine survived, once these aluminium engines are run hot, they usually fail. I've no idea what is involved in an engine replacement but it sounds ugly, the insurance will take a hit! 
In the meantime it looks like I'll be without my sweet ride for a long time, driving a loaner T'reg V6. No disrespect to the T'reg owners, but the V6 ain't no Phaeton! However, I'm pleased to have it, it's brand new with only 800 miles when I picked it up. 
I'll keep you posted as to developments. In the meantime anyone know of a wrecked CGT with a good engine?








Phaetonless Rob


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_








It's a solid can (approx. 6" x 4" x 3") made of ribbed aluminum with four inlet/outlets on the bottom.

And, partially obscured behind that solid can in the diagram is an object with fins that looks like a mini-radiator, most likely the object that was punctured on Rob's car.


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## CSh2oboy (Feb 4, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

There is a Phaeton in the shop for the very same reason here in Denver. I saw it when i dropped mine off for an iPod intergration. Jeff, my tech, said that the guy's wife did it while parking the car. I guess she went to far forward and pulled over the cement guard and it punctured it. I am being very careful when parking now to say the least.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_ 
This has nothing to do with a vehicle fault, so I've filed a claim with my insurance company. The dealer will fix the leak and then start up the engine to see if it's toast. I'm not hopeful that the engine survived, once these aluminium engines are run hot, they usually fail. Phaetonless Rob

Rob,
I feel so sick for you. That just *sucks.* I hope this all works out in the long run. 
Just as a side note, I was at the dealer today with the T-REG and was told about a Phaeton owner that ran off the road, 19K, yes $19,000.00 US, damage to the car. Oh well, it's all relevant some where.
Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_In the meantime it looks like I'll be without my sweet ride for a long time, driving a loaner T'reg V6.

Hi Rob:
Be careful to not let your wife drive the Touareg. My VW dealer gave me a Touareg as a loaner vehicle once. I thought it was 'nice enough', but other than that, didn't take much notice of it. My wife drove it for two days, then asked "Do you thing the VW dealer would be willing to swap the Phaeton for this Touareg?" It seems that the cabin of the Touareg is smaller than the Phaeton, and that means that all the switches and controls are within easy reach of my wife, who is 5 feet tall.
You have been warned...








Michael


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (W126C)*

Brent,
Thanks for the sympathy, I do feel sick and depressed, but, like most things, I'm confident everything will work out in the end. I would not be surprised that an engine job is around $19k! Looking at the damage to the car, it looks like a piece of tree branch penetrated the front at speed. I do remember seeing such debris but never felt it hit the car, just can't figure why. There is absolutely no damage to the underside, just about a 2" hole in the front.
Just hoping I get her back as good as new - and - before Christmas!!! Tend to doubt it though.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I think I'm safe, my wife usually drives our BMW 540i which is a pocket rocket. She drove the T'reg and said it couldn't get out of it's own way! In short, she didn't like it at all. I must say the V6 is too weak for me too, the V8 would be much more attractive. Interestingly, the V6 uses more fuel than the Phaeton, at least for my driving. It's much lower geared with 80 at 2,900 rpm vs. 2400 in the Phaeton, maybe one reason for the high consumption, not to mention having to floor it often in order to get it going along with brisk S. Florida traffic!
Rob


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Rob, you need to change your screen name to Vlad - the impaler!
I hope it works out. That part should be on the next plane out. Fill it with new coolant, oil and ATF and do some careful break-in miles. You will be lucky or you won't. Shouldn't' take long to find out.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*

Well, the surgeon has reported in, the physical damage was repaired and the Phaeton's heart re-started. Result - heart transplant needed if she is to go on living! The hospital bill will be in excess of $16k - thank god for insurance - after 30 years of no claim, they will take a hit. 
Advice to all; if any warning of potential engine trouble pops up, stop immediately and make sure everything is OK. Even then, cross check and if any guage seems abnormal, call PCC and have it towed! I was fooled by the water temp guage not showing hot - should have noticed the oil temp up, might have saved her if I did. 
Rob


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Rob,
Good to hear that she can be saved with a transplant. And the insurance is going to cover it. I'm sure this is going to take some time to "perform the surgery", but do us all a favor and take pictures. I know it will be painful, but just think about the knowledge we all will gain. 
PS Glad your wife does not like the T-reg, remember that's what stopped my first Phaeton.







But I'll keep the one I got. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Regards,
Brent


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (W126C)*

Sorry it turned out negative. On the bright side, you may get the fried V8 block and heads as a coffee table for you den. Will they give you the old parts?


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Will they give you the old parts?

She's not even dead yet. And I thought I was sick asking for pictures of the transplant.








Regards,
Brent


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (W126C)*

On life support. You can't leave them unplugged for too long. I hope they give him the organ. Maybe he can use it to test fit a turbo or supercharger someday. A good cause, yes?


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_On life support. You can't leave them unplugged for too long. I hope they give him the organ. Maybe he can use it to test fit a turbo or supercharger someday. A good cause, yes?









Igor, "it's alive, it's alive."
You know this is just wrong.








Regards,
Brent


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (W126C)*

Right you are. Then, again, you never know when you might need, say, an extra lumbar vertebra.








Do you think they will replace the motor complete, or will they ship a short block and expect the dealer to build it up from parts off the other motor?


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## jlturpin (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*

I know that I am late, but thought I would try to add a little. The water temp gauge did not register high, because there was no water for the sending unit to get a temp from, just conductive heat from the surrounding metal. Hate to hear about your problems and hope it all works out.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (jlturpin)*

I hate to say it but the car should have started blinking and screaming and shutting itself down when something this serious cropped up.










_Modified by Paldi at 10:49 PM 12-20-2005_


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*

Fred, I'm in the trucking business and all of the big engine companies have had shutdown systems on thier engines for many years. Its really strange and sad that a car like this is not equiped with something like this. Your lucky that the insurance company is going to pick it up. 
Seems like a computer shutdown system on a car of the Phaeton's status would be in order.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_Seems like a computer shutdown system on a car of the Phaeton's status would be in order. 

Well - that's one of those ideas that sounds good on first look, but doesn't always pass more detailed scrutiny.
The subject often comes up during pilot training, when the topic of engine indication problems during critical phases of flight is discussed. Sometimes, I'll set a crew up in the simulator to depart out of an airport where single-engine climb performance is really marginal due to payload, elevation, temperature, and local obstructions (for example, departing Geneva runway 23 in the summer with a full load). Right after rotation I'll toss in an engine low pressure light, or an engine fire warning. Most often, the pilot's first response is to shut the affected engine down... only to find out that they now don't have the power needed to make it over the mountain that is about 15 miles straight ahead of them, and if they turn to head back over the lake, they won't be able to maintain altitude in the turn due to the increased wing loading.
The correct decision in a situation like this is to make an executive decision to kiss the engine goodbye - in other words, keep the sucker running full bore until it either seizes up or stops on its own. By the time it packs it in, you have probably got yourself out of the tight squeeze you were in when the warning light came on. Sure, you've spent a million or so scrapping the engine, but at least you are still alive, and the aircraft is otherwise undamaged.
A parallel in automotive use would be having a low oil pressure light come on just as you were accelerating onto a freeway entrance ramp that ended 300 feet ahead of you - with a cement truck right behind you. Warning light? What warning light? I don't see a warning light....








Michael


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

Yep. Go/no go decisions always fun, Michael. One lesson I learned is to not always trust the lights 100%. They screw up, too. Same applies to Fay.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Jack Orr)*

I agree with Michael, you don't want a system shutting down the car. For example you could be in a bad area where a shutdown could put you in some personal jeprody! However, since the temperature gauge does not seem to work in the absence of coolant, it might be better to have the gauge sender as a thermo couple imbedded in the actual metal of the block that could detect an overheat no matter what the coolant state. Also, a strident warning horn or the like could really warn an inattentive driver as to the emergency and a go/no go decision could be made. However modern cars are so reliable that such conditions are rare. One just does not think about actual physical damage like my car suffered. I still cannot believe I didn't hear anything hit the car!
Rob


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_However modern cars are so reliable that such conditions are rare. One just does not think about actual physical damage like my car suffered. I still cannot believe I didn't hear anything hit the car!Rob

It's a very quiet car with a lot of sound proofing. I think anyone of us could have missed this. Again, this is a good lesson and it's just too bad that it is you that had to teach it. But it will all work out in the end. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Good luck Rob,
Brent


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (W126C)*

Thanks Brent, the old saying the tuition in the school of hard knocks is never cheap sure applies to this case! I 'm thankful my insurance is providing a "scholarship" so to speak! I'm sure she'll be OK in the end but it looks like a Phaetonless Christmas for me.








Rob


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Rob,
There is always next Chrismas. Enjoy the new year, it's going to be a good one. What warranty is coming with the new engine? Just thinking.
Regards,
Brent


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_ However, since the temperature gauge does not seem to work in the absence of coolant, it might be better to have the gauge sender as a thermo couple imbedded in the actual metal of the block that could detect an overheat no matter what the coolant state. Also, a strident warning horn or the like could really warn an inattentive driver as to the emergency and a go/no go decision could be made.
Rob

Excellent thoughts, I am totally surprised that is not the case.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (W126C)*

Brent, the warranty is as per the original, in other words, the new engine enjoys the same 4 year 50k warranty as the rest of the car. Since the car is only 6 months old and 7k miles, I'll still have plenty of warranty left.
Rob


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Rob,
I can report from experience that engine transplants are no more the "end of the road" than a heart transplant in a person. This is from the experiences of (a) transplanting a 1.8T in an '01 Passat that hadn't had an oil change in, oh, 18 months and (b) having my roommate's brother-in-law receive a heart/kidney transplant a few years ago.
I am happy to report both are doing well and in excellent condition! And, while the engine doesn't require a biopsy every six months or so to warn about rejection, I sure do see it every six months or 5,000 miles now!










_Modified by chrisj428 at 11:01 AM 12-8-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (chrisj428)*

And - just to add to what Chris said - I understand that the Phaeton that Dr. Piëch drives has also had an engine replacement. It seems that he coveted the twin turbocharged W12, and had one dropped into his Phaeton.
Michael


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

Just an update, all insurance inspections are complete and a new engine is on order. My dealer is unsure how long it will take to get it, they've never had to order one before! Apparently a Passat engine takes 3 days. Chris, maybe you have and idea how long for a 4.2?
Michael, Dr. P. won't take my call, I was hoping for CGT conversion








Really, it's just a matter of time until some smart tuner converts W12's to CGT specs and starts thrashing everything at the local drags. Might be good for resale value!
Rob
Suffering a dire case of Phaeton deprivation. Cars used since Phaeton in the shop: T'reg V6, Honda Odessy V6, Infinity M45 (not bad).


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

What wheels did he put on his?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Do you think they will replace the motor complete, or will they ship a short block and expect the dealer to build it up from parts off the other motor?

My guess is that VW will ship a fully built up engine that just needs to be 'connected' to the various fluid and electrical lines.
The pictures below are of engines that were in inventory in the Phaeton refurbishment facility located on the lower level of the Transparent Factory in Dresden. Whenever a Phaeton comes off-lease in Germany, it is sent back to Dresden, where it is inspected from tip to tail by the technicians at the factory. They then replace any components they don't like, and put the car through the same testing and acceptance checks that a newly built Phaeton gets.
Michael
*W12 Engine, fully built up and ready to install*









*V8 Engines, fully built up and ready to install*


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_My guess is that VW will ship a fully built up engine that just needs to be 'connected' to the various fluid and electrical lines.

I would guess the dealership will receive what is commonly referred to as a "long block", meaning the engine & mechanicals are all together. All the ancillary components (alternator, a/c compressor, etc.) will be swapped over by the mechanic before the engine is installed in the vehicle.


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## meinhib (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (car_guy)*

Hello, I think I may have the same problem you have. I just purchased my 05 v8 3wks ago after trading in my 04 treg fully v8 with only 16,000 miles, excellent condition. After going to a area dealer here in Pa. I was told the Phaeton was not going to be offered in the states, and that vw is taking 20,000 usd of the sticker"WOW". the vehicle listed for 65900. I was going to get the vehicle after my lease was up in about 3ys. Now for sake of running on, I took the deal....the vehicle is running hot I took the car back to the dealer my display states "COOLANT OverHeating" this happened over 5 diff times in a 2 1/2 time frame. The temp needle got as high as 270 in the red zone 280 is the highest. The funny thing is it runs high parked.. I'm scared of the furture with this vehicle...Oh I only have 1000 miles.







Can anyone give any suggestions...


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I'd start by printing off this thread and showing it to your service advisor. I'd also contact PCC with your concern.
~PC


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (meinhib)*

A few questions:
Is the Oil temp running High?
When you say it runs hot when parked are the idle RPM's normal
Are the oil and water levels correct.
How long after starting before the temp get high.

PS $46K for a new 05 WOW,







WOW, ow, OW,



















_Modified by GripperDon at 6:06 PM 12-12-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (meinhib)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meinhib* »_...my display states "COOLANT OverHeating" this happened over 5 times... The temp needle got as high as 270 in the red zone 280 is the highest.

Hi Christopher:
Welcome to the Phaeton forum.
I can't diagnose or troubleshoot a car over the internet







, but, my first guess is that you might have an indication error - meaning, the temperature sensing device is sending an incorrect (too high) reading to the engine controller. This reading is then passed on to the instrument cluster.
Perhaps your Phaeton technician can confirm this by using a temperature measuring device to determine the temperature of the coolant as it passes through the various hoses. The latest generation of remote sensing devices are quite neat - they are just like a radar gun, in the sense that you point the device at the object you want to measure the temperature of, hold the laser dot on the object for a few seconds, and voila - you read out the surface temperature on the gauge.
There is no doubt at all that you should not have problems such as this with a new car, but hopefully your Phaeton technician should be able to identify the cause of the problem and fix it without too much trouble.
Michael


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

Got some good news today, the new engine has arrived and they are starting work on the install tomorrow. Looks like I'll have my P-car back for Christmas after all! The engine came quite quickly, less than a week after my insurance approved the repair. I'm hoping the install is without problems.
Rob


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Good News! Bodes well for future support of the Phaeton here in the USA.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_Got some good news today, the new engine has arrived and they are starting work on the install tomorrow. Looks like I'll have my P-car back for Christmas after all! The engine came quite quickly, less than a week after my insurance approved the repair. I'm hoping the install is without problems.
Rob 

Rob, That's great. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Remember, pictures would be a good thing.
Regards,
Brent


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (W126C)*

Latest update, the new heart is in and barring rejection, the patient will be discharged tomorrow or Thursday! 
I dropped by the shop over the weekend and had a look (forgot my camera, sorry) and the new engine looked just like the one Michael posted a picture of. I tried to get them to give me the old one, but there is a core charge, so VW gets it. The entire front bumper assembly was removed to get the engine out, quite interesting, and a BIG job! The shop facility is very clean and I'm hopeful the job will be fine. Their Phaeton tech is quite good, but it's the first time they ever did an engine swap, so my fingers are crossed! 
Will report further when I get her back. Looks like Christmas won't be so bad, Phaeton withdrawl is hard and I needed a fix.
Rob


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

The entire front bumper was removed? You don't say!


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## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (meinhib)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meinhib* »_Hello, I think I may have the same problem you have. I just purchased my 05 v8 3wks ago after trading in my 04 treg fully v8 with only 16,000 miles, excellent condition. After going to a area dealer here in Pa. I was told the Phaeton was not going to be offered in the states, and that vw is taking 20,000 usd of the sticker"WOW". the vehicle listed for 65900. 

Just to get this straight, your dealer sold you a new 2005 Phaeton for $45,900. No tricks, no wacky trade business, $45,900.
Since the invoice on this car would be $61,000 and change, and there is $2000 dealer cash on the car at the moment if you buy, that means the dealer cheerfully ate some $12,500 of loss after dealer holdback. This, on a car that has proven to be bizarrely popular after its demise was announced - after having '05 after '05 sold out from below me during my search, I know. 
Any chance your dealer would sell me one at that price, or would you be willing to provide contact information? 'Cause for those of you following along at home, at current VCI lease program rates you would pay about $350/month to lease that car.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Paldi)*

Fred,
That photo is not far off, aside from the fact that the front fenders were on, mine looked much like the picture! Perhaps that photo is of the Phaeton that sold for $45,500 new


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Rob,
I was just thinking about you today. Good to hear it's going well. I still wish you could remember your camera.







Looks like Santa/VW/insurance, co. will bring your present right on time.








Regards,
Brent


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## vivaitalia (Dec 8, 2005)

Rob,
Just read this post.........OMG. I had Phaeton withdrawls for a week when I went away on business and was stuck with a mustang convertible from Hertz (and can I just say, what a mediocre piece of engineering that mustang is....even my old honda accord was more of a pleasure to drive). Hope your Phaeton gets a clean bill of health. John


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

could you briefly spell out what the lack of water and ultra hight emperatures actually did specifically to the engine. Thanks, Merry Christmas and Glad you are getting such a great present. PS who was your insurance company.
Don














http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## W12VW (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (chrisj428)*

I fully appreciate the problem you have. Had an experiece where an engine siezed up in a Rolls-Royce Silver Spur. The tab was over US$40,000.
Insurance company wanted to disallow over 40 percent, but I persisted and only had to pay the comprehensive deductable and a 12 percent depreciation factor.
All the best
Bob


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (W12VW)*

Just an update, still have not got my car back! While re-assembling, they found additional parts were needed and had to wait for the adjuster to approve. I'm told tomorrow is the day she wil be ready, so my fingers are crossed!
The old engine was not disassembled to see what actually happened to it, but something was clattering noisily when they started her up. My guess was bearings but am not sure.
While visiting the dealer today, I saw they had a used '05 W12, luxury black with gray interior (a rare and stunning combo), 13k miles every option but 4 seater. I did not do a close inspection but it looked immaculate. They are asking $69k - sticker was $105! Chris? If anyone wants me to check it out, let me know.
BTW, State Farm are really good, they took care of everything and gave no hassle. I've been with them for 30 years - now I know why!
Happy New Year everyone!
Rob


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

If you haven't seen the Luxury Black, it's a fantastic color -- personally, I think it's worth every bit of the $4k premium. 
Bob, I'd love to have it and thank you for asking! If I can't find Ed McMahon's phone number (I know I have it around here somewhere), I'll have to wait until this time next year. Leased a Passat for 12 months (one of those offers I couldn't refuse) and I'm trying to be a better boy in the hopes that Santa will bring a Phaeton for under the tree next year.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (chrisj428)*

Happy New Year everyone!
Yesterday was the magic day. got the Phaeton back. I feel complete again! As usual with Gunther VW, the car was beautifully detailed and delivered with a full tank. Many thanks to Shelley the service writer who did a great job of keeping me informed of progress all throughout the ordeal. 
Driving home, the car felt just great, after six weeks without, I could really appreciate just how good the Phaeton is compared with other cars! Everything seems perfect with the job and you would be hard pressed to tell work had been done in the engine compartment. I was worried that the job would have disturbed the pristine nature of the car, but it seems not to have. If anything the new engine idles smoother than the old one! I'm observing break-in procedures so can't comment on the power, but it seems just as before - as well it should. 
Interestingly, the new engine has a sticker on the valve cover proclaiming it's manufacture date as 4/4/2004, made in Hungary (I think this is the engine factory for all Phaeton and AudiV-8's). I'm not sure if the engine came from NAR stock in the USA or was flown in from the factory, but the date shows they have engines waiting in case of emergency. 
Santa came a little late - but I'm not complaining






















Rob


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Congrats What a way for a Happy New Year to You !


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Hi Rob:
Glad to hear you have the car back and all is well. May I trouble you with an 'off the wall' question? Your car is the only one I know that has the very latest software load in the instrument cluster (controller 17) - you have software version 0517. I am curious to know if this software version supports display of an icon to indicate if the steering wheel heat has been turned on. There has been some discussion amongst other owners (in Switzerland) about the icon being deleted from the display to make more room for display of other information.
Next time you are in the car, would you please push the little button on the right hand side of the steering wheel (just beside and behind the volume + and - buttons), and tell me if you see the icon for 'steering wheel heat on' appearing in your instrument cluster display? Photo of icon is below.
Thanks,
Michael
*Steering Wheel Heat Icon (software version 0312 shown)*


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

Mine shows it.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (dcowan699)*

Right, but you have software version 0312 (same as me) in your instrument cluster. Robert is the only person I know who has a Phaeton new enough to have the 0517 software in his instrument cluster (controller 17).
Michael


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

Mine shows it too, as per this picture taken 5 minutes ago, so it seems 0517 supports the indicator too.
Rob


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (Gobuster)*

Great, thanks very much Rob.
Michael


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

During those 6 weeks of Phaeton withdrawal which mine was being fixed, I was, shall we say, "automotively restless"! Not being able to have a Moto like some more fortunate members here







I did play personal Santa and indulge in the next best thing! Oh well, it is a lot of fun!
Rob


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

Glad to hear you spoiled yourself. I picked up a new Porsche Boxster day after Christmas.
By the way, what are the coolant temps you folks are used to seeing? I looked at mine today and it seemed hot to me (the car is new to us so I'm still not sure what to expect but this thread has me worried).


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*

The needle usually indicates about 90°C (200°F) once the engine has warmed up. This is a little bit of an indication error in the needle - if you look at the measured value blocks (MVB) for coolant temperature, you will see that it typically runs about 96°C once the car has fully warmed up. I think the indication error is intentional, to prevent people from becoming alarmed.
Michael


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

With both the new and old engine my water temp stays pegged at 200. The oil temp in the old engine was usually 200 after warming up completely, the new engine is running 210, probably due to the friction of new components. I'm watching it very closely! The M Roadster also has an oil temp gauge and it reads 200-210 when fully warmed so I'm guessing there may be an oil thermostat in these cars that opens at 200 and allows oil to flow through an oil cooler. 
Rob


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (Gobuster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gobuster* »_With both the new and old engine my water temp stays pegged at 200. The oil temp in the old engine was usually 200 after warming up completely, the new engine is running 210, probably due to the friction of new components. I'm watching it very closely! The M Roadster also has an oil temp gauge and it reads 200-210 when fully warmed so I'm guessing there may be an oil thermostat in these cars that opens at 200 and allows oil to flow through an oil cooler. 
Rob

I think you are right about the oil cooler!


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## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

I used to see 250-260 degrees in the oil of my Superformance S1 during trackdays, even with the oil cooler mounted front and center under the radiator!


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: (Four Speed Fox)*

I'm not surprised under track conditions - revs and heavy load will send up oil temps! I've seen some cars with water sprayers for the oil cooler to help reduce temps! That is also common practice for air to air intercoolers on turbo engines.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton in ICU (PanEuropean)*

Photos re-hosted.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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