# Sticky  USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*USRT* is proud to organize Vortex’s second water/alcohol injection (WAI) group buy from Snow Performance. These Stage 2 "Boost Cooler" kits are designed for high-strung engines that require detonation control beyond what the engine management system is capable of. This may include big turbo 1.8Ts, 2.0l engines with SC kits, R32's running 100 octane files, etc. 
Best of all, instead of $8/gallon+ for race gas, WAI operating costs amount to just pennies. Thus, *high-output* may be had *all week* instead of only at the track. Other great benefits are the great intercooling effect, removal of carbon deposits from the combustion chamber, and a general improvement in reliability under race conditions.








WAI is appropriate for use in any forced induction engines, very high-compression normally aspirated engines, and those running large amounts of nitrous oxide. Our kits are equipped with progressive controllers which vary spray delivery to match engine load. This is a great differentiator versus lesser engine-bogging set ups which spray at full-blast even at light engine loads. We provide two nozzles of your choice. (Download this small program to determine exactly how much spray you'll need to get the job done. Assume an 80% injector duty cycle if you have any question in that regard.)
It is important to realize that (like race gas) water/alcohol injection will not make power by itself. What it will do is permit substantial increases in boost pressure, bigger shots of nitrous, more compression, advanced ignition timing, or all of the above combined. Some trial and error tuning is required after installation, to achieve maximum power gains. Improvements can be quite dramatic as our German distributor demonstrated on a customer’s Audi S3:
HORSEPOWER before/after








Audi S3 original power: 153kw = 205whp
with Boost Cooler: 200kw = 268whp
HORSEPOWER/TORQUE (final tune)








Audi S3 original torque (not shown): 270Nm = 199ft/lbs
with Boost Cooler: 456Nm = 336ft/lbs
Until the next 15 units are sold or two weeks has elapsed from Feb.1, 2007, the *price will be $359 shipped*.
The Rules:
a) Shipping will begin as each increment of 5 kits is sold.
c) Buyers screen names will be posted in this thread.
d) All buyers must be members of VW Vortex.
e) No Member may buy more than 2 kits each.
f) *PayPal goes to: [email protected]*
To order, *DO NOT FORGET* to send the following information in your *PayPal*. (Credit card payment by phone is also acceptable: 856.456.3335):
*Buyer name
Street address* (NO PO BOXes)
*Daytime and nighttime telephone number
Buyer’s email address
VW Vortex member screen name
Vehicle make, model, and year
Indication of MAF or MAP-referencing controller
*

_Notes: Shipping is included in the price for USA buyers only. International freight charges will be added._

*We're 100% finished!*
Buyers:
FerVR6 (01/24/2007)
speeding-g60 (1/30/2007)
tw1nny03 (2/1/2007)
T-Boy (2/5/2007)
Dragonfli_x (2/5/2007)
theAntiRiced (2/8/2007)
ghostman (2/8/2007)
lanocharacing (2/9/2007)
kindbudz91G60 (2/15/2007)
sergio(2/15/2007)
VR6rocks (2/15/2007)
V-DUB Alec (2/15/2007)
turbo_pumpkin (2/15/2007)
autocrosser11 (2/15/2007)


_Modified by [email protected] at 3:13 PM 4-30-2007_


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## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection ([email protected])*

ok, Scott, for all those people out there wondering the same thing i am.........which stage are we buying here.....


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection (scott66)*

Whoops, I'm so glad you asked for that clarification. We're talking about either of Snow's *Stage II* systems here. There are two variant choices, though. One controller version uses a signal sent by the stock MAF sensor to vary spray flow volume. The other has a built in MAP sensor. Folks who've deleted their MAFs, or those running Digifant I or standalone would use the MAP-based controller. Either way the price for a full kit is the same at $359 shipped.


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection ([email protected])*

Awesome price for a progressive controller. A very complete kit for the money. 
I see ~45F temperature drop with my WI kit on my STG III. Logged with the AIT sensor. I have ZERO degrees of timing pull even when hitting 25 lbs of boost and holdign 22 lbs. WI really works.


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## Speedy G (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection (enginerd)*

Yeah that's a good deal. However, what does the progressive controller control, the pump? Does the kit come with a solenoid in case you want to mount the injector below the level of the tank (otherwise it drips)?
How much nitromethane in the water/alky mix does it take to add 30 hp? How about 50 hp?
You said ask questions... My results will be up soon with the old snow kit (modified of course).
Speedy G


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection (Speedy G)*

Yes, the progressive controllers change the input voltage to the water pump. The nozzles that Snow provides are designed to atomize the spray solution very well between 60 - 140psi which is the range that the controller produces. Most other nozzles (including those from highly-respected Aquamist) will dribble at the low pressures. This is a key differentiator! The solenoids are available as an upgrade for $40.
Regarding the nitromethane, I'm not sure what it will take to make that kind of power. I have not experimented with it, yet. Be the first and let us know, Speedy! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Speedy G (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection ([email protected])*

There's a good discussion about mixtures in the following forum:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpB...t=105
Speedy G


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## cvisinho (Apr 1, 2003)

Would there be any increase in power by just hooking the kit up and spraying away?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (cvisinho)*

No, that's not how it works. What you can do is install this system and safely turn up your boost way beyond what your engine can handle currently. Think of WAI just as you would race gas but with the added bonus of significant intercooling improvements. The big difference compared to race gas, however, is that you can run it all the time for pennies.


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## Galacius29 (Jun 2, 2004)

i dont know very much about WI so i'm just trying to figure out, if you run high boost all the time with a WI setup, is that harmful to the engine or car at all?


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## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (Galacius29)*

Scott I am seriously thinking of this. I've been doing a lot of research and actually sent you a few PM's, don't know if you got them or not. I have seen up too 8 degrees of timing pull on 94 octane @ 18 PSI, and no pull on 100 octane. I'd like too run full timing up to 20 PSI on 94 octane ?







Should bump me over the 400 HP mark. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (darrenewest)*

Also Scott some information about the pro's and cons of the MAF vs. The MAP kit ? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (Galacius29)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Galacius29* »_i dont know very much about WI so i'm just trying to figure out, if you run high boost all the time with a WI setup, is that harmful to the engine or car at all?

The wear and tear on the engine will not be harmed by the WAI system itself. Rather, that will actually increase reliability under those high-boost conditions. However, even well-managed power increases like this will marginally increase wear and tear on the engine. To put it into perspective, though, you could easily have greater reliability at 20psi than you did at 15psi simply because the combustion process is less violent. This is especially true for those running engines that were not originally designed for boost and/or those using nitrous oxide.

_Quote, originally posted by *darrenewest* »_Also Scott some information about the pro's and cons of the MAF vs. The MAP kit ? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Their aren't any significant pros and cons, really. Both are very effective ways to progressively deliver the spray. MAF arguably is more accurate because it measures the actual mass of the air entering the engine. Meanwhile, a MAP sensor calculates the amount of air entering the engine based on manifold pressure. There are so many variables at work in reality, however, that differences like this are not worth worrying about.
Ultimately, I recommend the MAF-based controllers for those who have them built into their stock engine management systems. Folks who have deleted their MAF sensors (and added diodes, etc.) and those whose cars never came with MAF sensors (i.e. Digifant I, CIS, etc.) should use the MAP controller. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Galacius29)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Galacius29* »_i dont know very much about WI so i'm just trying to figure out, if you run high boost all the time with a WI setup, is that harmful to the engine or car at all?

This thread pretty much sums it up.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## _Scirocco20v (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

When this group buy end? I have a friend thats intrested in the kit.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (_Scirocco20v)*

Is there any long-term adverse effects to running a setup like this?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (_Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Scirocco20v* »_When this group buy end? I have a friend thats intrested in the kit.

This group buy ends tomorrow! However, with only a few kits sold I'm not satisfied that we've gotten the word out sufficiently. We dubbers are a bit behind the tuning curve compared to bigger markets. So, it'll just take more education and incentives to get the message across. We're planning on a bigger promotion later this month. So, perhaps we'll include these bits, too.

_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Is there any long-term adverse effects to running a setup like this?

No, sir. WAI is a protective measure and reduces wear and tear incurred by detonation. In fact, if you open up an engine that's been it for a short while, it looks as if the combustion chamber is brand new. That's because of the steam cleaning effect. Carbon deposits disappear pretty much entirely.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_We're planning on a bigger promotion later this month. So, perhaps we'll include these bits, too.

Cool, because I'm a little tight on cash at the moment, but this is definitely something I'd consider picking up.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_No, sir. WAI is a protective measure and reduces wear and tear incurred by detonation. In fact, if you open up an engine that's been it for a short while, it looks as if the combustion chamber is brand new. That's because of the steam cleaning effect. Carbon deposits disappear pretty much entirely.

So Meth would just be the substitute for alcohol? And what kind of tuning is involved after installation? 

_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_I see ~45F temperature drop with my WI kit on my STG III. Logged with the AIT sensor. I have ZERO degrees of timing pull even when hitting 25 lbs of boost and holdign 22 lbs. WI really works. 

Hmm... so does that mean could pretty much eliminate the need for a IC?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_So Meth would just be the substitute for alcohol? And what kind of tuning is involved after installation? 

There are different types of alcohol. Meth=methanol is just one of the types. Ethanol (a.k.a. ethyl alcohol = booze) is another, and a 70/30 Isopropyl/water solution is what you get when you buy "rubbing alcohol". Btw, you can use any of these in a WAI system.

_Quote »_Hmm... so does that mean could pretty much eliminate the need for a IC?









You could certainly do that, yes. However, I recommend that WAI be used in conjunction with an IC. Applications where ICs are hard/impossible to fit (e.g. Neuspeed SC) are greatly benefitted by these systems. I've got a customer with a SC'd BMW M3 (E36) and he runs 5psi boost with no IC and no timing retard whatsoever. That car is plain ol' nuts.







That's on 91 octane, btw.


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## germanautoman (Oct 13, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
There are different types of alcohol. Meth=methanol is just one of the types. Ethanol (a.k.a. ethyl alcohol = booze) is another, and a 70/30 Isopropyl/water solution is what you get when you buy "rubbing alcohol". Btw, you can use any of these in a WAI system.

Wich one do you recomend? Were do you get it from and about how much does it cost.


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## CapeGLS (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: (germanautoman)*

Scott, sorry I didnt purchase. After debating on the LM1 and this, I said.. Neither! I need to work on the current set-up and then go from there! Thank you for all of your help! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: (germanautoman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *germanautoman* »_Which one do you recomend? Where do you get it from and about how much does it cost?

Well, the recommendation depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Pure water is the best at controlling detonation since it does not burn at all. (In theory it has an infinitely high octane rating.) Also, in theory water should take more heat out of the intake charge since it takes more energy to make it change phase (i.e. evaporate). However, it also takes more time to change phase. The distance from the injection point to the combustion chamber is usually very short. So, alcohol can be advantageous because it removes the heat faster. The best results typically come from using enough alcohol to lower intake temps as much as possible and enough water to control detonation. The chemists out there can juggle numbers, but there are so many variables at work that good ol' hotrodding trial and error gets the best results the fastest. I recomend whatever you can find conveniently and for cheap. (Keep in mind that methanol is nasty to the body -as is gasoline, engine coolant, motor oil, etc. -so you have to handle it carefully. Ethanol and Isopropyl are relatively tame.)
Hare some basic calculations to demonstrate how the various alcohols compare with each other. Note that the flow volumes and proportions of water/alcohol are not all the same. The results, however, are fairly close to each other:
*Pure water:*
0.40 lb/min of water when fully vaporized, will cool the air down from 150° F to 109° F. 
*Methanol:*
100%: 1.08 lb/min of methanol will vaporize, cooling the air from 150° F to 96° F.
50%: 0.55 lb/min of methanol/water will vaporize, cooling the air from 150° F to 107° F 
*Ethanol:*
100%: 1.26 lb/min of ethanol will vaporize, cooling the air from 150° F to 100° F.
50%: 0.57 lb/min of ethanol/water will vaporize, cooling the air from 150° F to 108° F 
*Isopropyl:*
70%: 0.76 lb/min of alcohol will vaporize, cooling the air from 150° F to 107° F.
91%: 1.14 lb/min of alcohol will vaporize, cooling the air from 150° F to 104° F.
100: 1.50 lb/min of alcohol will vaporize, cooling the air from 150° F to 102° F. 
Distilled water is a super cheap and can be found at the grocery store. Methanol (99%) can be picked up at WalMart as HEET which removes condensation from gas tanks. Iirc, it costs about $9 a gallon when you buy several 12oz bottles. Ethanol is available at hardware stores as "Denatured Alcohol". That stuff runs about the same amount. Isopropyl (rubbing alcohol) is usually found in 70% concentrations at the pharmacist. I *think* you can find stronger stuff at WalMart, etc. You'll have to check on the price. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mechsoldier (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Scott F. Williams)*

I'm confused though, so is this just the stage 2 kit as seen on your site or is that including the map or maf variable controller. I don't get how these two are different as you mention up above it comes with either the map or maf upgrade....is it just listed as two products on your site?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (mechsoldier)*

Sorry for the confusion, Daniel, and thanks for bringing it to my attention.







If you take a look again you'll see that I've made the descriptions more clear. In summary, the Stage II kits include either a MAP or MAF-based controller. You'd buy one *or* the other. If you buy a Stage I kit (i.e. no controller included) you can buy either controller later as an upgrade. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

since you are getting some good conversation here>>> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2127153
i know the masses are thinking they are ready to start buying some units here. i for one thought i was ready the other day, but i got into something else, sorry Scott, dont be disappointed with me








anyways, i think more people are ready to GB .


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## f0xf0702k1 (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (scott66)*

when are these available? im definately in!


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*

This group buy is long since finished. However, we keep the WAI kits in stock and generally available. Just let me know how I may be of service to you.


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## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

How much are your kits going for now, I am looking to cool my car down now that I'm running a stg 2 BBM S/C, I must say though the power gains on the S3 are AMAZING if they were made just using the boost cooler 63 hp is a lot of extra power, Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

Jon, the current pricing is available on the USRT website. Non-IC'd FI engines benefit *tremendously* from water/alcohol injection for two reasons.
a) Intake air temperatures are dropped massively and instantly which allows more fuel to be burned to produce more power/torque.
b) The tendency to detonate is reduced significantly which permits extra timing advance and MORE BOOST.
That customer's S3 was not modified between runs aside from spraying the WAI and cranking up the boost. Another example is a local customer's Corrado G60T which was detonating at 12psi boost. Now he's able to turn it up to 17psi before he starts to ping at all. Fwiw, he has yet to truly tune the system. So, even greater gains are likely in the near future.
I'll bet that WAI becomes a trend in VW engine tuning next year. We're lagging far behind a lot of the other marques in this regard! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dragonfli_x (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

OMG, when I didn't think my world would get any worse, I finally see the group buy that at one point I wanted to start... now it's gone







. ... sniff sniff ... But http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for bringing it out!








BTW, really dig the new website!


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## alexo (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Hi Scott right now i am in the process of building my car (seat Leon 1.8T) with a kit form Pagparts with a Gt2871r, 440cc, 3 inch maf, etc.
I have seen the benefits of wtare inj in a Jetta with a T3-t4 with no injection he could only bust 17 psi, with w-i he can boost it up to 22psi!!!!!
I just have two questions, one it wouldnt be dangerous to the rods the massive torque that you aquire with the w-i kit, and the second question do you ship out to México, if you do can you PM with the shippement cost and ill buy one of these on Monday.......
Thanks
Alex


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (alexo)*

Scott, do you have the dimensions of both the pump and the tank?


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

Here's some test data wringing out 3rd/4th gear uphill with my apr STG III gti. 
WI made a huge difference in this cars performance. 16 C (28.8F) difference in peak air intake temps. Zero timing pull at 22 psi







93 octane with 93 in tank. I never tried 100 oct on 93 but a couple stg III guys have mentioned that it works with WI. 











_Modified by enginerd at 11:04 AM 12-2-2005_


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (alexo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexo* »_I just have two questions, one it wouldnt be dangerous to the rods the massive torque that you aquire with the w-i kit.

Alex, thanks for your support. Please let us know when you've got some nice results from your kit. Your connecting rods' long-term health depends on how hard you push. I can't tell you a specific power level where you'll start breaking parts. However, water/alky injection will help eliminate the sudden pressure spikes which bring sudden death to engine internals.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_I never tried 100 oct on 93 but a couple stg III guys have mentioned that it works with WI.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (ruso)*

Sure, the water pump is 8" long, approximate 4" tall (including rubber mount pieces), and 4" wide at the mounting bracket. The tank measures 6.5" x 4" x 5". That kind of volume lasts about a week in my friends 500whp Mustang. He's got no space under his hood, so he stuck both his pump and tank in the trunk. They're stashed behind his interior trim panels with Dynamat applied to muffle sound. It's a really slick set up.







The kit in my Scirocco is installed on the floor behind the passenger's seat. However, most folks just keep everything under the hood.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Sure, the water pump is 8" long, approximate 4" tall (including rubber mount pieces), and 4" wide at the mounting bracket. The tank measures 6.5" x 4" x 5". That kind of volume lasts about a week in my friends 500whp Mustang. He's got no space under his hood, so he stuck both his pump and tank in the trunk. They're stashed behind his interior trim panels with Dynamat applied to muffle sound. It's a really slick set up.







The kit in my Scirocco is installed on the floor behind the passenger's seat. However, most folks just keep everything under the hood. 

Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?

Mmm... nah, it isn't as high-pitched and whiny as that. Rather, it's more of a strong hum. When mounted on the rubber standoffs it's not annoying at all. The reason why my Mustang buddy used the Dynamat is because he put the pump inside the car. Fwiw, I used no sound deadening at all and it doesn't annoy me. Then again, I can't hear a damned thing over the ITBs or my electric power steering pump (mounted on the floor beside the Snow pump).


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
Ok, so does the pump carry similar noise characteristics as an in-line fuel pump?
 
I have another company's system that uses the same pump , made a bracket and mounted it to the OEM SMIC brackets , very stealth and you dont hear anything out there . Just a few install tips . If you mount the pump with the motor side facing up, make sure you silicone around ANY and ALL opening ( where the wires go in, around outerside of the base plate and espec the weep hole ) other wise road water will find its way in the motor and short it out ( ask me how i know







) Another thing i found that helps improve the performance is i removed and blocked off / bye passed the pressure switch in the pump , you get ALOT better spray . I havnt had a chance to use it on my stage 3+ with 100 octane program ,with 93 in the tank . But i used it with good results when it was a APR ko3 100 oct program and 93 in the tank , very little timing pull and great performance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif IMO water / meth systems work well







Bob.G


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (nathankaufman)*

Propane injection is best used to make extra power on a diesel engine -not gasoline. The addition of propane (usually pre-turbo) to any diesel engine, whether turbocharged or normally-aspirated, introduces more fuel to engine, without additional airflow. This is a big deal for a diesel and this mod can produce nice benefits if done correctly. The problem is that there simply aren't very good propane injection kits on the market. What I've seen are all fairly crude.
Now, water/alcohol injection (WAI) is a different beast entirely. Rather than primarily serving as supplementary fueling, the issue here is detonation control. With this method, octane is increased radically. So, boost or nitrous can be cranked up without detonation. WAI can be used very effectively on both gasoline and diesel engines. And, WAI can be used with propane injection on a diesel for really impressive power/torque improvements.


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## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

I can use my current winshield washer container right? I have a TT with headlight washers disabled; so i have an extra hose coming out of the resevoir.


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## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

also do you guys install these systems?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (TSTARKZ123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSTARKZ123* »_I can use my current winshield washer container right? I have a TT with headlight washers disabled; so i have an extra hose coming out of the resevoir.

Yes, you may use that resevoir instead of the one that we supply.

_Quote, originally posted by *TSTARKZ123* »_also do you guys install these systems? 

Yes, sir. We can handle that for you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TSTARKZ123 (Oct 1, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

cool! whats the address?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (TSTARKZ123)*

Our new shop is located in South Jersey -near Philadelphia, PA. That place is still under construction, though, so we may need to do the work at another facility close by. If you're interested in getting some work done, please shoot me an IM or email. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## malcman (Apr 3, 2004)

Bump to keep it in my views......


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Scott,
Can you give us an update on this GB? Is it still on, etc.?
Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Bill, the group buy is actually over. However, we've got the kits generally available. You're an influential figure around here as far as water injection is concerned. I'd be pleased to "hook you up" as the young folks say.


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## ThaCorradoKid (May 26, 2004)

is this an appropriate setup for a daily driver? does it require tweaking/calibration etc. I think it looks like a good kit for a serious setup, but i'm not sure it fits what i'm shootin for. 
Example: jump in car, turn key, and we're off. let sit for anywhere between 3 hours and 10 days and repeat.
Also, would a snobby rich chick complain about the noise of the pump on a late-nite cruise through some quite back roads?










_Modified by ThaCorradoKid at 3:19 PM 2-13-2006_


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## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Scott, just since this 'watched topic" jumped again, there are tax refunds for you to gather. Perhaps NOW!!! is a good time to bring back the H20/meth injection GB? Just wondering out loud and all...








Dave


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (ThaCorradoKid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ThaCorradoKid* »_is this an appropriate setup for a daily driver? does it require tweaking/calibration etc. I think it looks like a good kit for a serious setup, but i'm not sure it fits what i'm shootin for.

Well... if your daily driver needs the detonation control that would otherwise require race gas, then yes it is entirely appropriate. For *maximum* output (which means constantly riding the edge of mechanical destruction) you certainly will need to tweak and adjust. WAI is no different then any other tuning technology in this respect.
However, you don't need to push nearly that hard to make effective use of these systems. Set it for the amount of boost that you plan to run, fuel octane, etc., and then leave it alone for the most part. Now, if the ambient air temperature drops by 50deg or if you're stuck with 87 octane fuel, then that obviously changes the engine's propensity to detonate. So, you'd change the WAI trigger settings accordingly.

_Quote »_Also, would a snobby rich chick complain about the noise of the pump on a late-nite cruise through some quite back roads?









Snobby rich chicks complain about *everything* that isn't perfect like Daddy. So, get buff, earn that PhD, buy a huge house by the beach, trade the Dub for a Porsche, and *then* worry about the pump's noise.


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## deliverator (Feb 14, 2006)

Here's a second vote for your needing to collect peoples' tax return money. Bring the group buy back and you can start with mine.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (deliverator)*

Alright alright!







Short of doing an outright group buy, I'll temporarily offer the kits for $359 + $15 shipping. Putting USRT info in your sig for a month or two would be a nice gesture for the $40 saved. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Baci (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

SOLD! Where the hell do I sign up? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Alright alright!







Short of doing an outright group buy, I'll temporarily offer the kits for $359 + $15 shipping. Putting USRT info in your sig for a month or two would be a nice gesture for the $40 saved. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Which kit?


----------



## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

signature changed! Thanks again Scott for a great Spring project that adds a lifetime of "more"...
Dave


----------



## McNeil (Jan 18, 2006)

I think I want in.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (Baci & JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Baci* »_SOLD! Where the hell do I sign up? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Shoot me an IM for details.

_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_Which kit?

We're talkin' Stage II hotness with either controller, sir. That's the way to go unless you're managing the system with a standalone engine management and a high-speed solenoid.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

What do you guys think of the integrity of the stock internals of an obd2 mk3 ABA already seeing 16psi daily on double stacked gaskets. There a few other guys that claim that 18psi is as far as I should go. Would WI be worth me looking into with stock internals?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Similar to high-octane fuel, water injection effectively reduces an engine's propensity for detonation. This is a good thing for any engine and is especially important for one pushed well beyond its normal limits like yours. Remember, though, that WAI doesn't *make* power by itself. Rather, it simply expands the safe performance envelope created by the actual power adders (e.g. turbo).
As for the head gasket recommendation, I'll leave that for somebody else to answer. A good source of information about this sort of thing is Paul from Boost Factory.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Can probably ditch the double stacked gaskets and raise the compression and improve the quench area on the piston. The WI will tolerate boost on a higher compression engine. It will make your rods last longer only if you are detonating.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*

ring lands?


----------



## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Hmmm, last few posts might be off topic? Just checking cause I think this thread is about WAI and how great [email protected] is to keep the price low for us craving more powa!
Scott, got it, but zero degree temps are preventing this wimp from installing it. Can't wait to "set it and forget it" like Ron Popiel suggests.
Dave


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (DCGULL)*

yeah it's too damn cold to be working on the car right now. Ill have some dyno testing with and without water injection on my APR stg III setup when the weather gets better. I anticipate gains, and a big improvement in back to back heat soak.


----------



## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*

Bump beause taxes are being returned and Spring is just around the corner!


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection ([email protected])*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nutbox11 (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection ([email protected])*

what goes into installing one of these kits?
also if its complicated what do you charge for the install?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection (nutbox11)*

What's complicated for one person is elementary for another. With that said, though, installing a water/alky injection kit isn't really all that much of a big deal. You can find the installation instructions via the USRT website. Scroll down below the picture of the system and you'll see the link for "system installation". That'll bring up a PDF file with all the details. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nutbox11 (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

you can run propane with nitrous on gas motor to get some good power. i know a guy with an older viper thats supercharged with nitrous and propane. its makin 950 to the wheels. alone propane doesnt do much but with nitrous it kits ass.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (nutbox11)*

Why did this chap go with propane injection (which is more typically done with turbo diesels) rather than water/alcohol?


----------



## nutbox11 (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

im not really sure. 950 to the wheels, i didnt really ask why. ill try to find out.


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (nutbox11)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Derelict Dub (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (adcockman)*

Does anyone have a general install for this set-up on a supercharged motor?


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (93Dubster)*

I don't know. But it would be nice to reference another install before i do mine.


----------



## dash cunning (Feb 8, 2004)

*Re: (adcockman)*

i lvoe my wi kit. i have a cooling mist pump and snow var. controller. don't really have instructions i could type up one tho if anyone needs it, here are some pics. btw my intake temps were 74 degrees at 20psi with no timing pull on apr93oct and 93 in the tank.
































everything is in loom now and much cleaner.

edit* mine is a water/meth kit which is what you showed in your pics, i tryed running alky and my intake temps went waaaay up.


_Modified by dash cunning at 12:21 AM 4-26-2006_


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (dash cunning)*

Has my new kit shipped? You expected it to ship last Wed. or Thurs. 
Thanks!


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (adcockman)*

My new kit has arrived! Let the fun begin!
Thx http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (dash cunning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dash cunning* »_edit* mine is a water/meth kit which is what you showed in your pics, i tryed running alky and my intake temps went waaaay up.

You ran 100% alcohol and your intake temperatures climbed? That's an interesting result and probably means that your previous water/alky mix was evaporating fully in the intake tract. Best detonation control comes with a greater percentage of water and with some of that entering the combustion chamber in liquid form. A greater proportion of alcohol generally cools faster, though, and is often less sensitive to tune.
If your intake temps are higher than you'd like, I'd run a greater proportion of water which changes phase more slowly but removes more heat in the process. Moving the spray nozzle farther away from the head (to provide more time for evaporation) will cool more, too.


----------



## dash cunning (Feb 8, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

cool man thanks... i'm running the water/meth now, but if i try alky again then i'll keep that in mind. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## s216v (Jun 1, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

ok....i've been interested in this setup for a while now, I was actually part of the GB with dragonfli_x over in the VF forum that didn't seem to have enough 'G' at the time.
I'm running VF's Stg 1 6 psi non-IC setup for a VR6, and i commute 100 miles a day. I'm noticing that when the outside temps begin rising over 70 F or so, it's very obvious that it doesn't accelerate as hard as if it were like 50 F or colder.
Would WAI give me that 'colder' feeling again?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (s216v)*

You've got a non-intercooled VR6 with 6psi boost, eh? Yes, you're going to see substantial gains with the WAI. With it, your engine may be significantly more responsive at the current boost level. What's more, you'll be able to safely increase the boost pressure from where you are right now without fear of detonating. Yes, this parcticular application is a no-brainer.
Wow, is WAI finally catching on around here? It sure seems like it.


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Wow, is WAI finally catching on around here? It sure seems like it.










Its about time, always knew the truth about it, and always was into it! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif But about time for others


----------



## dash cunning (Feb 8, 2004)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

yea i'm glad people are finally seeing the light and what you can do with these systems.


----------



## TnT2theMax (Dec 28, 2002)

*Re: (dash cunning)*

Scott are you going to be running another goroup buy anytime soon? Or is there any specials?


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (TnT2theMax)*

(3:30 AM 4-30-2006) EternalXresT: any specials going on with water/alky kits????? would like stage two. do you think i should wait for stage 3?

(10:15 AM 4-30-2006) [email protected]: The controller upgrade brings a Stage 1 kit up to Stage 2 spec. the difference *is* the controller which is inluded in S2. *As for specials, there actually is one going on until May 15th for the S2s at $359 + $15 shipping*. The Stage 3 will go on sale in June (maybe for an intro discount off the regular $499). So, you may want to act now to get the most bang for the buck or wait and get a more tunable system. Consider your priorities and make a decision thusly.


----------



## TnT2theMax (Dec 28, 2002)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

Thanks


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

No Prob. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## s216v (Jun 1, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Yes, you're going to see substantial gains 
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_your engine may be significantly more responsive
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_this parcticular application is a no-brainer.










PayPal sent


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

yay! this will show stupid tx and their stupid heat whats up.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (beachball6)*

Thanks for the orders guys. This promo deal will end May 15th, so come one/come all while the goods are still at "steal me" prices. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## crzygreek (Jul 8, 2005)

damn i just missed it


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (crzygreek)*

Scott, I only received the two larger nozzles in my kit. Could I get the 225? I think the 375 may be too large. I have the pump turned down (2 full turns) and also the max voltage turned up past 5 volts. No bogging, but I'm going through a crap load of fluid. I would also think running a higher psi on a smaller nozzle would be better too.
I have the system coming on around 2.9 volts. It doesn't seem to be using as much fluid. But is this too high? 
What are your thoughts?


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (adcockman)*

Guys... I've recently got my kit up and running. I haven't made it to the dyno yet. However, I've been doing some test runs. What can I say... It works. I'm running 3 degrees more timing and it keeps the intake manifold very cool even while beating on it. I suspect I'll be able to run more timing. But I would rather wait for the dyno...








FYI I'm running the 375 jet with the pump turned down to roughly 100-110 PSI. 
Scott, what would be the advantage of running the full pressure? Increased control.


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (adcockman)*

This was the last tune on the dyno today.








This is a comparison of the dyno pull in Jan. vs an earlier pull from today. Note the power and tq increase across the full power band. Also this is pretty incredible considering it was 50 degrees in Jan vs the 100 degrees of today. 








Just thought I would share. This was done with the small w/m nozzle.

_Modified by adcockman at 9:03 PM 6-3-2006_


_Modified by adcockman at 9:07 PM 6-3-2006_


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

what was your 1st dyno run on? 93?
did you re-tune the car at all? doesnt look like it


----------



## Alaska (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (beachball6)*

just my luck to find this afte the 15th!
as of now being June what have the prices changed to?
I'm running stage3 VF
11psi w/FMIC
Thanks


_Modified by Alaska at 11:31 AM 6-5-2006_


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (beachball6)*

Yes... the car was re-tuned. 
1. timming
2. proper nozzle size
3. pump pressure
4. just a little love
5. Proper in and out point on the Snow/Meth Controller
I put down 270 or so back in Jan. with minor advance timing. I don't have the print out of where we started yesterday. The final tune had more timming advance than when I went in. 
3 inch exhaust will be the next test.
In Jan my base run on 93 was 270 on the same dyno. But the timming was bumped a little. My goal was to get the same number sand not need to run race gas all the time. Goal achieved. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by adcockman at 11:02 AM 6-4-2006_


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

im sorry, i didnt notice the dynos were the same day. oops. it was layed out as if they were different. 
cool so you got 20hp w/o any boost modification just timing. ohhh i cant wait lol. ust waiting on a smaller jet.


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (beachball6)*











_Modified by adcockman at 11:05 AM 6-4-2006_


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (beachball6)*

no prob. The fact is I put more hp and tq down with water/meth than I did with Race/93. Obviously, I wasn't able to run race gas everday since Jan. Now this setup will be much more cost effective after the initial investment. 
Good stuff! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by adcockman at 11:06 AM 6-4-2006_


----------



## Alaska (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (adcockman)*

bump for interest and dammit cuz I only get 90octane in Alaska
so my performance gains would be less then that-
Then again my ECU is only programed for 93
*currently I run torrco fuel additive to boost my octane-


_Modified by Alaska at 12:01 PM 6-5-2006_


----------



## Mad Caddies (Aug 4, 2005)

Would this kit be logical for someone with say...APR 93, DV, Exhaust, downpipe, and other small stuff like that?


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Mad Caddies)*

of course!


----------



## VWturbo2Ltr (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: (adcockman)*

water injection does not care what your current setup is.......... from stock to the craziest of setups you WILL make power........ period. 
in my opinion you get even more bang for you buck with water injection vs your standard chip program


----------



## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (Mad Caddies)*

I beileve there are a few guys running the APR 100 program with pump gas and WAI without issues. Can't wait to get my WAI setup.


----------



## adcockman (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*

I would love to get my hands on giac race gas file... Right now... I'm simply doing the timing advance on my own...


----------



## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: (enginerd)*

sounds worth it on my 1.8t K04erd, too bad i should do the fuel pump and injectors first


----------



## THEERY2.1 (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: (VWturbo2Ltr)*

Scott,
Could i run this WAI on my distributer VR6 S/c with 8 psi and be safe using stock fuel and stock software?


----------



## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: (THEERY2.1)*

Anyone here running this system with SEM? I'm wondering how aggressive people have pushed the timing envelope. If you're turbocharged, are you using it pre-boost to help spool the turbo better with aggressive timing and the additional fuel nessesary? Can this system even be used this way?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (THEERY2.1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *THEERY2.1* »_Scott,
Could i run this WAI on my distributer VR6 S/c with 8 psi and be safe using stock fuel and stock software? 

You might be able to get away with this. A 75% proportion of methanol could be used for auxiliary fueling just like a second bank of injectors. The 25% of distilled water would make the stock ignition curve more workable. I'd add the Safe Injection failsafe box and a solenoid to purge boost in case of trouble.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (WMTJ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WMTJ* »_Anyone here running this system with SEM? I'm wondering how aggressive people have pushed the timing envelope.

Folks with factory ECUs see their timing retard go to *zero*. With SEM you could go beyond that. How far you can go would depend on many variables like engine design/spec, boost level, water/alcohol proportions, type of ignition system, etc. There's no one answer to this good question.

_Quote »_If you're turbocharged, are you using it pre-boost to help spool the turbo better with aggressive timing and the additional fuel nessesary? Can this system even be used this way?

This is a means of enhancing the octane rating of the intake air/fuel charge. The spray is delivered when combustion begins to become uncontrolled. So, just as with race fuel, it's effects are only realized when the engine needs help controlling detonation. A forced induction engine that detonates before boost has serious tuning or mechanical problems. So, this wouldn't be the cure.
With that said, there is a way to actually *add* energy rather than just maximize safe release of existing energy. That is to mix a small amount of nitromethane into the spray solution. Does that sound crazy?







I don't expect every dubber to run in that direction immediately, but it does work extremely well and folks will wise up in time.
Fwiw, up until this season most folks were saying that WAI was ridiculous, couldn't work or was unecessary in a superior VW/Audi engine, would cause instant hydrolocking, or was only suitable for Japanese cars. IGNORANCE!







Our scene is finally waking up. There's power to unleash and safety to be had!


----------



## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I installed a WI system on an SRT4 last night. Used a 5gph nozzle a little before the throttle body. This car previously made 402 whp on pump gas running 25 psi from a GT3076R with the ecu pulling 10 degrees of timing. After the install and running 21 psi, the ecu was allowing 29-30 degrees of advance! The car feels much faster with the WI at 21 psi than without at 25. A/f was 11.5:1. This system is just a static system with no flow control. We are going to add a controller and hit the dyno and bring the boost back up to 25 psi. Anyone not running WI is really missing out. I would never build a boosted car without it.


----------



## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

DARN IT, Scott......i was on vacation and didnt see this. is it over? i read on your first post that is said 100% complete, sure hope that isnt true, let me know.


----------



## CA Solt (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: (scott66)*

Yes, I'll be willing to add my name to this GB; or maybe start another round.


----------



## QU1KGTI (Apr 1, 2003)

is this group buy still alive?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (QU1KGTI)*

It isn't, but... keep your eyes open for another. Soonish like.


----------



## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Let us know soon, so I can return my kids' Christmas presents...


----------



## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

question can I put washer fluid in the bootle?


----------



## spooln6 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (tyrone27)*

I am interested


----------



## Golf_kris (Dec 2, 2001)

*Re: (spooln6)*

I'm also interested http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (tyrone27)*

Yes, you can use washer fluid. However, I don't recommend it because the dye can clog the holes in the nozzles over time. Also, washer fluid generally contains only about 20% methanol. You'll want closer to 50% for best cooling, octane improvement, and easier tuning. The better bet is to mix your own or buy the "Boost Juice".


----------



## QU1KGTI (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_It isn't, but... keep your eyes open for another. Soonish like.









2 weeks?








but in all seriousness, 2 weeks would be perfect


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Yes, you can use washer fluid. However, I don't recommend it because the dye can clog the holes in the nozzles over time. 

make sure that if you are using washer fluid, it doesnt contain any glycol.


----------



## cvisinho (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*

I have a question...
I have been researching kits and want to buy one but i have a slight proplem possibly. I want to get a kit and use a MAP controller but do i need a controller with certain voltage capabilities? 
I have a 337 with stage 3+ APR if that makes a difference.
Another company has 2 controllers for MAP, a 2 bar and a 3 bar and apparently neither is compatible with my MAP as far as they know. 
This poses a problem if i order any kit i am assuming because the controller wont work, correct?
What are my options? i really dont want to run a MAF controller unless its a last resort just incase the MAF craps out.
Thanks


----------



## DMmagazine (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (cvisinho)*

just installed...................


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (cvisinho)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cvisinho* »_I want to get a kit and use a MAP controller but do i need a controller with certain voltage capabilities?.. What are my options?

That's an excellent question, Chris. I believe the controllers are all equipped with 3bar sensors. We've never run into a situation where the MAP voltage was maxed out. Snow Performance is closed until after New Years, but I will be happy to confirm the max boost pressure once they return. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cvisinho (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

cool, thanks scott.


----------



## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: (cvisinho)*

Im interested too... make it soon !


----------



## cvisinho (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (FerVR6)*

Any news? Looking to make a purchase relatively soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AutoCrosser11 (Jun 23, 2004)

any info on the group buy? looking to get WI soon.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (AutoCrosser11)*

(sigh) What was supposed to be announced yesterday must wait until tomorrow, guys. We're über busy over here. You'll be taken care of! Promise!!!


----------



## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

hey i want in lol, ive been talking with jeff about this


----------



## cvisinho (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (dvlax40)*

????????????


----------



## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_(sigh) What was supposed to be announced yesterday must wait until tomorrow, guys. We're über busy over here. You'll be taken care of! Promise!!!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (FerVR6)*

Bring it on, guys. This group buy is finally back from the dead. We had to do a bit of politicking with Snow Performance to get this to happen!


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Bring it on, guys. This group buy is finally back from the dead. We had to do a bit of politicking with Snow Performance to get this to happen!











Scott Williams - King of business politics. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*WAI Nozzle Sizing*

(chuckle)
Alrighty, it's advice time. As everybody knows, each engine is set up differently, has different detonation characteristics, and thusly needs custom configuration/tuning to achieve maximum output and safety. The first step in WAI tuning is to pick the right spray nozzle flow rate. This previously required a bit of math and advanced tuning knowledge. The good news for our community is that USRT has made this much easier! Determine your optimal water/alcohol flow rate with this *nozzle sizing application*. This will put you in a ballpark of where you'll finally end up. (Once you get the kit installed and running, you'll need to tweek from there.)
So, here is how it is done in 3 easy steps. In the example below, we calculate the solution for a 400bhp 1.8T engine with 550cc injectors:

(Click for bigger image)
Get started by inputting all the obvious information. The one area where you may not be sure is injector duty cycle (the percentage of time that the injectors are held wide open at maximum engine load). Typically, our high-output engines are tuned for about 80 - 85% maximum duty cycle, so start there unless you know otherwise. Click the top "calculate" button and the program will tell you what your actual flow rate is.

(Click for bigger image)
Next, pick the range into which your maximum boost level falls. Your level may be at the very limit (upper or lower) of one of these ranges. So, if you've got a very high-strung turbo that's pumping hot air, choose the next higher boost range. On the other hand, if your engine is equipped with a very efficient charger, then it may make sense to chose the next lower bracket. There is a fudge factor here, so keep that in mind. Leave the pump pressure at 150psi and click the bottom "calculate" button. The program will give you a recommendation at the very bottom.

(Click for bigger image)
If the recommended nozzle flow is significantly different than the actual flow, you can adjust pressure (max 180psi) so that the numbers come close to matching. An exact match is not necessary since this is only a ballpark estimation method. You will dial in final flow adjustments via the Stage 2 control unit. Have fun!


----------



## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: WAI Nozzle Sizing ([email protected])*

let's get this group buy going already!!!


----------



## bad_news (Oct 26, 2006)

i'm down for 2 kits. 
now i'm on a mac so I can't run that app, which means i'm not 100% on nozzle or what else i need but i'm sure we can discuss it when i need to pay.
also, since i'd be running it every day, i need a larger reservoir. 
but i'm totally down for 2 kits whenever.


----------



## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: (bad_news)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bad_news* »_also, since i'd be running it every day, i need a larger reservoir.

5.5L Euro-spec windshield washer reservoir is 1J0-955-453 L and the plug you'll need is 2D0-955-465 B. I'm running this in my Jetta and I use about a half tank of water/methanol for every tank of gas. Snow Performance also has a 7 qt reservoir available if you want to mount it in your trunk.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (punkrider99)*

hit me for some info on this scott.... please. 
i am interested.
HERE ARE THE SPECS OF MY SETUP:
AEB 20V with JBE custom intake, ATP mani (now Treadstone), 3" mustang TB, turbonetics t60-1 HIFI stg 5 turbo. previously ran 4bar fpr on stock rail with RC550 high impedance injectors. haltech e6k standalone.
i have changed it a bit, went deka 750 low impedance injectors, added aeromotive a1000 pump, custom bigger rail, aeromotive 13109 bypass fpr, and fuel cell. using 100 micron filter before pump and 10 micron after pump. the fuel cell has only -8an ports on it.
went -8an to pump, will this be an issue?
and what should i start the fpr pressure at with the new injectors?
what ballpark hp numbers might i expect with this setup? car previously did 302 whp on pump gas @ 18psi, with stock fueling.
thanks for the time and help. also may look into methanol or water injection..... and i will only be running race gas @ 120 or 130....

did i mention in a mk1 gti?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_hit me for some info on this scott.... please. 
i am interested.

Well, I did respond to your post in the fueling thread.


_Quote »_did i mention in a mk1 gti?

That is good to hear. All hail the almighty A1 chassis!


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

yeah, i posted there first.... anyways, this group buy still back on? if so i am interested.... tell me what i need to do. and after the snow kit, will the car need to be re-tuned and dyno'ed? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i would need the MAP kit, and you have my info, which injectors should i use? looking to run 1/4 mile, race gas (120 or 130), around 24lbs or more boost. high hp is the goal.... thanks


_Modified by speeding-g60 at 3:42 PM 1-29-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_anyways, this group buy still back on?

Yes, read the first page and follow all the directions.

_Quote »_after the snow kit, will the car need to be re-tuned and dyno'ed? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Once you add the WAI kit, you'll have radically increased your engine's power-making capabilty. So, you can throw on a smaller pulley and add boost without fear. If nothing else, your ECU will simply add timing which will add to your torque and sharpen your throttle response.

_Quote »_which injectors should i use? looking to run 1/4 mile, race gas (120 or 130), around 24lbs or more boost. high hp is the goal.... thanks

That 24lbs of boost pressure is a result of intake restriction. Give me a power target, though, and I'll let you know what size injectors you need to hit it. As I mentioned in the other thread, your 750cc injectors are enough for 500whp or so. How much power do you want to produce? Also, let's keep this thread on topic (that is, about water/alcohol injection) and do the fuel injection tech in the other one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

ok.... i'll go back to other for injectors.... but what smaller pulley? turbo has no pulley???
directions on first page to follow.... thanks


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_ok.... i'll go back to other for injectors.... but what smaller pulley? turbo has no pulley???

Sorry, I was thinking you had a supercharger. Non-intercooled guys with superchargers love WAI because they get to drop their intake temps so substantially, but without the expense of the IC. Meanwhile, turbo people make out like bandits because they can turn up the boost to a point where the WAI is needed to control detonation. Either way, you're flyin'.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

hmmmm, i can buy two? i do have a mk3 vr6 gti with vortech v1 s-trim blower on it, non intercooled..... now i am thinking again.....


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

is there a certain distance max you can run the reservoir - to pump - to intake tract? i am lookin at not much more room underthere, close to where this would need to go..... maybe reservoir in car, and pump under hood?


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*another buyer*

ok, so after being on the phone with scott for more than a half hour, i bought mine, but a different twist. based on his recommendations, and my hardware setup, i went stage 1 with safe injection box, and i need to source an unavailable-to-usrt part elsewhere. he also gave me where i need to go to get that last part. extremely helpful, does not mind spending the time to help anyone out that has questions about their setups, etc. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spooln6 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: another buyer (speeding-g60)*

any sc guys have this on their car


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: another buyer (spooln6)*

call scott and talk to him about it..... the shop number is on the first page. he is a great guy to deal with..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: another buyer (spooln6)*

I will soon..............


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: another buyer (spooln6)*

Hey, thanks for the compliments and support, speeding-g60! We aim to please.









_Quote, originally posted by *spooln6* »_any sc guys have this on their car

One of the most popular VW applications ever has been the Neuspeed SC for the 4cylinder cars. Those guys don't have intercoolers, so the intake temperature drops are a blessing. There are also chaps out there with C2 and VF kits. The benefits for a supercharged engine are *exactly* the same as turbo, nitrous, or highly-tuned NA. Just do yourself a favor and inject the water after the charger itself. If you spray before, you'll wear the teflon coating off the compressor lobes/blades. In all applications, the spray should also be introduced _after_ the intercooler. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spooln6 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: another buyer ([email protected])*

ok you got my order i will be calling you next Thursday for my order do i drill and tap my tb for the nozzel and what one would you think i need?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: another buyer (spooln6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spooln6* »_ok you got my order i will be calling you next Thursday for my order do i drill and tap my tb for the nozzel and what one would you think i need?

You can certainly tap and mount in the TB, but then most of the fluid will evaporate in the combustion chamber versus the intake tract. So, you will primarily get anti-detonation improvements versus intake cooling. On the other hand, if you mount the nozzle very far away from the TB, you will get more air temp cooling and less detonation protection. So, placement is a strategic decision.
Generally speaking, I recommend placing your nozzle in the intake pipe just after the intercooler. Or, if you don't have an IC, then place it in the intake pipe after the charger. It is best that the nozzle is not placed in the middle of a sharply curved section. A solenoid must be used if your mounting spot is behind the throttle plate or if it is below the fluid reservoir.
As for the nozzle size, please follow the instructions on the 4th page of this thread. If you need help with that, I'll be happy to guide you. However, I'll need a description of your set up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: another buyer ([email protected])*

$$$ sent for solenoid....thanks for the help once again.


----------



## dragonfli_x (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: another buyer (T-Boy)*

whoo-hooo... me tooo


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: another buyer (dragonfli_x)*

that makes 5, we should be shipping soon


----------



## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

Just have a quick question. I'm running a chip and turboback, the next logical step for me would be a larger intercooler. Would it be a smart idea on my part to stick with the stock setup and run your kit? I don't want to play with timing or boost, I just want a cooler intake charge and to not pull timing. Would the kit be more effective than a larger intercooler? I've heard that timing is still pulled on FMICs at my level of tuning, so maybe this would be more effective... Either way, your kit + vag com would still end up being cheaper than an intercooler. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by 20aeman at 2:08 AM 2-6-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (20aeman)*

Thanks for the positive support guys. The first batch of five kits will ship to USRT today/tomorrow. Then, they'll ship to y'all immediately thereafter.

_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_I don't want to play with timing or boost, I just want a cooler intake charge and to not pull timing. Would the kit be more effective than a larger intercooler? I've heard that timing is still pulled on FMICs at my level of tuning, so maybe this would be more effective... Either way, your kit + vag com would still end up being cheaper than an intercooler. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

To *maximize* your return on investment, you'll want to push your engine harder. However, if the ECU is already retarding timing, then you'll absolutely net positive gains with this system. Expect your timing to go to full advance even at maximum boost. The result will be a substantial increase in torque and quicker response. For sure, the WAI system will drop your intake temps far more than a FMIC ever can. I've never seen an intercooler drop temps below 0degF before!








Water/alcohol injection has been around since World War II. We rally guys have relied on it for decades. However, in the VW/Audi tuning world, it is still one of those "undiscovered" technologies out there that nets radical performance (and safety) gains. So few people are familiar with its characteristics, that the guy who uses it has an unbeatable advantage. Look at Mike Savko who made 258whp and 322wtq with his STOCK K03 turbo on pump fuel! The paradigm has shifted. The bar has been raised. Non-believers will be left choking on extra-humid exhaust vapors. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i got one coming, and to think my round of questions with scott started by talking about injectors..... eventually led me here. he can answer almost any question you have for him on this subject, very informatively. and does not mind spending the time to help you out. give him a shout, he'll help you out. even if it ends up that you gain knowledge on this or another subject. he is the type of person that will tell you not to go a certain route even if it means a no-sale for him.
cant wait for this to get here..... actually cant wait to run a 10.xx in my rabbit......


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

Purchased the Stage II MAF kit. I'll be running two injectors on my stock turbo.


----------



## kindbudz91G60 (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

Just spent 35 min on the phone with Scott talking about goodies. I'm getting the Stage II MAP setup for my 16VG60. Also, bought the anti-siphoning solenoid so I can mount it right in the intake manifold. Hoping to run 10.5:1 comp. with small pulley on the charger...

Serious BUMP to Scott for answering all my questions and being helpful. Looking forward to my package arriving.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (kindbudz91G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kindbudz91G60* »_
Serious BUMP to Scott for answering all my questions and being helpful. 

















so far, i have at least 2 hours of scotts time in question answering, and i am not sure i am done.... (sorry scott, and thanks!!!)


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*

Hey Scott, any chances of extending the group buy for a few more days?
I want to place the order but still have a few more questions that I sent you by e-mail.
And here's a big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for being very very helpful!


----------



## dragonfli_x (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

so... like... umm... when's the first batch coming thru? T-boy's getting antsy


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (dragonfli_x)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dragonfli_x* »_so... like... umm... when's the first batch coming thru? T-boy's getting antsy










Thanks for keeping your sense of humor.







Shipping was delayed a bit on Snow's end. Almost all the kits ordered are going out at once, though. Also, you're all getting the new-spec 180psi pumps instead of the old 150psi units. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Here's the UPS tracking number of the big package coming to USRT: 1Z9V2500344352886. Once we get the kits here, they'll be shipped out immediately. Thanks, guys.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i guess waiting for the delay did us right by the better pump..... cool.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

(sigh) I'll get the proper tracking number together on Monday, then. It's always something. Meh...


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
You can certainly tap and mount in the TB, but then most of the fluid will evaporate in the combustion chamber versus the intake tract. So, you will primarily get anti-detonation improvements versus intake cooling. On the other hand, if you mount the nozzle very far away from the TB, you will get more air temp cooling and less detonation protection. So, placement is a strategic decision.


Scott i have a question for ya... In one of your comments you talked about strategic placement of the nozzle for either A) anti det suppression or B) super cooling effect. What if someone ran dual nozzles?
Pre TB/Post IC a decent distance to COOL the air
and
Dead in front/post TB (aka your nozzle plate soon to be released) for anti det suppression?
Of course this would require some test n tune and different nozzle size selection im sure.
Edit for the quote...


_Modified by theswoleguy at 6:51 PM 2-17-2007_


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_Scott i have a question for ya... In one of your comments you talked about strategic placement of the nozzle for either A) anti det suppression or B) super cooling effect. What if someone ran dual nozzles?
Pre TB/Post IC a decent distance to COOL the air
and
Dead in front/post TB (aka your nozzle plate soon to be released) for anti det suppression?
Of course this would require some test n tune and different nozzle size selection im sure.

It is possible. Running two nozzles requires another part. I'll be doing this once they come out with the TB spacer; 150 pre-tb and a 60 just after. I'll be dyno tuning, vag-logging, and V-Tuning to get the timing and spray just right.


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

Hey Scott, have you received my e-mail?
I know I know, you must be very busy ... sorry couldn't resist checking


----------



## dragonfli_x (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
Scott i have a question for ya... In one of your comments you talked about strategic placement of the nozzle for either A) anti det suppression or B) super cooling effect. What if someone ran dual nozzles?
Pre TB/Post IC a decent distance to COOL the air
and
Dead in front/post TB (aka your nozzle plate soon to be released) for anti det suppression?
Of course this would require some test n tune and different nozzle size selection im sure.
Edit for the quote...

_Modified by theswoleguy at 6:51 PM 2-17-2007_

that's a good question! it seems as though that if one were to use the dual nozzle setup you can obtain the best of both worlds by getting lower intake temps and higher octane by using two different sized nozzles... i forget though if the larger nozzle would be further and the smaller being closer to the TB... scott will correct and/or elaborate... pretty sure T-boy's got some answers too


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (dragonfli_x)*

dont you have to have a different mixture of water vs methanol to affect that also??? just a thought....


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (dragonfli_x)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_What if someone ran dual nozzles? Pre TB/Post IC a decent distance to COOL the air and Dead in front/post TB (aka your nozzle plate soon to be released) for anti det suppression?

Yes, that's the exact set up that I've been advocating for some time now. Each Stage 2 kit is provisioned with two nozzles of the buyer's choice. However, there is mounting hardware for only one of them. To use the second nozzle you'd invest in the dual nozzle mounting kit. 








USRT is also putting together some throttle body spacer-type mounts. These will fit between the intake manifold and the TB so as to provide an *easy bolt-on solution*. Since the nozzle will be after the TB, you'll also need an anti-siphoning solenoid. Otherwise, the intake manifold vacuum will suck the fluid into the engine when you don't want it.










_Quote, originally posted by *dragonfli_x* »_it seems as though that if one were to use the dual nozzle setup you can obtain the best of both worlds by getting lower intake temps and higher octane by using two different sized nozzles... i forget though if the larger nozzle would be further and the smaller being closer to the TB

Yes, there is always a compromise between detonation suppression and intake cooling. The farther away the nozzle is from the combustion chamber, the more fluid evaporates. More complete evaporation = more cooling. Spraying by the TB means that the fluid will enter the combustion chamber in mostly droplet (instead of vapor or gaseous) form. So, the evaporation will largely take place inside the engine which does more to bump up the octane/fight detonation. Keep in mind that no matter where you spray, you still drop intake temps and smooth out the combustion process significantly. A dual nozzle set up takes the system from very good to *superior*. Normally, you'd put the bigger nozzle far away from the engine (close to the IC) and the smaller one at the TB or therabouts.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_dont you have to have a different mixture of water vs methanol to affect that also??? just a thought....

Okay... you asked for it. Here goes:
Adjusting the water/alcohol ratio is yet another means to tune the system. Water requires more heat energy (than any alcohol) to change phase from liquid to steam to gas. So, when it does fully evaporate, it absorbs substantially more heat in the process. With intake temps held constant, water needs *more time* to fully evaporate cmopared to alcohol. Water also has an infinitely high octane rating since it doesn't burn at all.
Alcohols come in several types, the most common being methanol (wood), ethanol (booze), and isopropyl (rubbing). Methanol is the most suitable for our purposes because it has the highest octane rating (about 105), contains the most energy, and conveniently carries the greatest amount of molecular oxygen. (Remember it's very easy to fuel an engine. The outrageous lengths we go to in tuning is to get air/oxygen in there.) Alcohols evaporate very quickly with a minimum of heat energy added to make it change phase from liquid to gas. However, since that is true, it also removes less heat from the intake charge.
SO... an engine that is injected with pure alcohol would be best set up with the nozzle/s close to the head. Conversely, an engine that is purely water injected would probably be configured with the spray introduced far away (so as to allow maximum cooling). A 50/50 mix of water/methanol is on average the best compromise between fighting detonation, cooling the intake, and not destroying pump or solenoid seals, etc. (Methanol is extremely corrosive and is a nasty neurotoxin to boot.)
Strategically placing your carefully-selected nozzles is the preliminary configuration step. Then, you'll do your baseline tuning with a 50/50 water/methanol ratio. Log with VAG-Com to see when the ECU starts to retard ignition so as to fight detonation. Set the Stage2 controller box to begin spraying just before the retardation occurs. Next, set the max engine load setting and do some dyno pulls or road testing. You should see a smooth and significantly puffed up torque curve. The ignition log will often show full or significantly advanced timing.
At this point in the process, the more power-hungry tuners can adjust the water/alcohol ratio. More water = less detonation and increased (but slower) cooling. A very water-biased spray mix can be challenging to tune because the margin of error is narrower. Use too much spray and you'll lose output (reflected by a choppy torque curve and ignition misfires). Meanwhile, greater amounts of methanol = supplementary fueling (if running lean at the torque peak) and faster (but potentially less cooling). Methanol-heavy spray mixes are relatively easy to tune. However, they accelerate wear and tear on system components. It's obviously much more expensive than water, too.
Many people will stop short of this point as they'll already have produced substantial gains. However, the truly inspired may then proceed to add more timing with Lemmiwinks, V-tune, or some other adjuster. The "danger" here, though, is that the ECU's base ignition curve will be advanced beyond where regular pump gas can protect the engine alone. So, the engine will now need the WAI system's octane for protection. At this point, a SafeInjection box becomes a very wise investment. If water/alcohol flow stops or is compromised for any reason, this failsafe device can be set up to purge boost automatically -either through the BOV or the WG. Folks with standalone can wire the SafeInjection directly to the ECU and have it retard timing, or cut boost, or both at the same time. The options are up to your imagination, knowledge, and creativity!
















*SafeInjection*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6rocks* »_Hey Scott, have you received my e-mail?
I know I know, you must be very busy ... sorry couldn't resist checking









Yep, I got the email and will get back to you today or tomorrow about your needs. I'm trying not to be such a workaholic today. I need a vacation in general. Beirut would probably be a nice low-stress get away for me.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

What are some of the components that will wear/deteriorate because of the water/alcohol spray? Anything that's not part of the WAI system included here?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

A 50/50 ratio of water/methanol will not produce any problems at all anywhere in the vehicle. It's a methanol concentration over about 75% that eats pump seals.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_A 50/50 ratio of water/methanol will not produce any problems at all anywhere in the vehicle. It's a methanol concentration over about 75% that eats pump seals.

Rock on


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

so in regards to the dual nozzle, should we contact you before placing the order to have the price adjusted?
Release dates on the TB spacer?
Or maybe just a price for the Kit, TB spacer, anti siphon valve, dual nozzle setup (since you say it comes with two nozzles.)


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
USRT is also putting together some throttle body spacer-type mounts. These will fit between the intake manifold and the TB so as to provide an *easy bolt-on solution*. Since the nozzle will be after the TB, you'll also need an anti-siphoning solenoid. Otherwise, the intake manifold vacuum will suck the fluid into the engine when you don't want it.


I swear I haven't seen yet anyone or any company that explained and revelaed so much tuning info to their potential customers.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to you Scott and for the work your are doing. I mean it.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_>>> UPS could not locate the shipment details for your request. Please verify your information and try again later.

Okay, I omitted a digit in that tracking number last week. It actually is: 1z9v32500344352886. Parts are due here at USRT on Thursday and will ship out the same day. Thanks, guys.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

hiding in toms bushes awaiting UPS man. 
ANy confirmed price maybe for the dual nozzle setup and the spacer?


_Modified by theswoleguy at 7:38 AM 2-21-2007_


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
ANy confirmed price maybe for the dual nozzle setup and the spacer?

I second that...


_Modified by FerVR6 at 9:20 AM 2-21-2007_


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## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (FerVR6)*

dumb ? i guess, but who is tom and whats so big about his bushing? must mean bushes.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif cant wait for this to get here......


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## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_dumb ? i guess, but who is tom and whats so big about his bushing? must mean bushes.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif cant wait for this to get here......

I'm assuming they mean T-Boy, but I'm also named Tom and I got a kit on the way too...


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## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

I don't usually take part in aby GB's, nor do I post in the FI forums, but Scott at USRT went above and beyond the call of duty, and I feel that this should be noted. I called USRT yesterday to discus a W/M injection solution for my needs, and he actually took time to explain how I can adapt a kit to make something ideal for my application. He is extremely knowlegable, and actually sold me a stage 1 kit instead of taking my CC info and just adding me to the list for a stage 2 kit like most companies would have. The result will be a custom Water/Meth injection kit that will be completely custom, and 100% tunable for me. He also explained how I can most effectively install this kit and make variations to it depending on my needs once I get to tuning. Also, he did not talk down to me like many places have in the past, and he had no problem explaining everyhting I needed to know. Needless to say I will be doing business with USRT in the future. 
Eagerly awaiting my kit, and searching for the rest of my parts to complete it!


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## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for scott.....









X2
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Turbo: what type of setup he get cooked up for you? he did the same sort of thing for me, with stage one and safe injection. i had to source the HSV, let me know if thats what you are looking for.... i know where they are.


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## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_
X2
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Turbo: what type of setup he get cooked up for you? he did the same sort of thing for me, with stage one and safe injection. i had to source the HSV, let me know if thats what you are looking for.... i know where they are.


Exactly what I'm looking for. PM me the details... What's your setup like?


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: (Turbo_Pumpkin)*

Scott !!! 
Hurry up with those shipments !! I cant wait for mine..


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (FerVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FerVR6* »_Scott !!! 
Hurry up with those shipments !! I cant wait for mine.. 

Shipment got to him today at 11am. Give him some time to sort out the orders and send them out......


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

is the Group Buy still on or over?, I just found out my tax return.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_is the Group Buy still on or over?, I just found out my tax return.

The group buy is officially over. However, a couple of spots opened up because folks experienced financial troubles. So, step right up with that tax return and score yourself a deal!









_Quote, originally posted by *FerVR6* »_Hurry up with those shipments !! I cant wait for mine.. 

¡Una bebida fresca está viniendo a tu coche ahora! Tus piezas enviaron por el correo expreso global ayer. Tener diversión.


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_¡Una bebida fresca está viniendo a tu coche ahora! Tus piezas enviaron por el correo expreso global ayer. Tener diversión.









For those of us that have never heard of Babel Fish:

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected] by way of Babel Fish* »_A fresh drink is coming to your car now! Your pieces sent yesterday by the global express mail. To have diversion.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

Good work, Tom.







That last comment was supposed to be "have fun". My Spanish skills ain't what they used to be.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

PM sent


----------



## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*
















Excelente Scott !!!
Gracias por tu apoyo... 
btw; this should be: 

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
¡Una bebida fresca está viniendo a tu coche ahora! Tus piezas enviaron por el correo expreso global ayer. Tener diversión.









Una bebida fresca está yendo a tu coche ahora! Tus piezas se enviaron por el correo expreso gobal ayer. Diviertete.








Nice try..


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_PM sent

and paid thanks Scott, Semper Fi
From the USAR Hooah!


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Will 50/50 mix eat through your washer fluid reservoir?


----------



## dragonfli_x (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_A 50/50 ratio of water/methanol will not produce any problems at all anywhere in the vehicle. It's a methanol concentration over about 75% that eats pump seals.


----------



## kindbudz91G60 (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (dragonfli_x)*

Anybody seeing theirs in the mail yet? Is it shipping to us US mail, Fed-Ex, or UPS?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (kindbudz91G60)*

Already got mine. I believe it was Fed-Ex that delivered it.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

hmmmm, i want mine..... we shall see what tomorrow brings us.....


----------



## dragonfli_x (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

mine came today! T-boy's came in like Friday or something and he's already running it!... so jearous!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (dragonfli_x)*

again, hmmmmmm......


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*

Mine is still on hold







I hope Scott hasn't forgot about me!


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*

He ordered the kits in batches from my understanding of talking to him since i was let in due to a few "no payments" and there should be another shipment either this week or next according to our conversation. Im just waiting on a Tracking number in the email then I'll know its shipped







then I will be getting excited.
Theres a guy in Union City that owns a gas station that sells straight Meth by the gallon or 55g Drum that he uses in his race car.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

cool, but i was the second one to buy in to this GB, and of the first grouping of 5..... oh well, it will get here. not like i can drive with no front suspension on the car, right?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

Tom how was the install and stuff? Ah hell check your PMs lol


----------



## kindbudz91G60 (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_again, hmmmmmm......









Yes hmmm. Seems like the east coast is getting theirs, rocky mountains will be a day or two behind that, and then the PNW last. Isn't USRT back east anyways?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*shipments*

Chaps, USRT's network server took a dump on us Friday afternoon. We've been flying blind since then. I'll be back to my typically communicative self very shortly! The first batch of orders shipped out and most folks either have or will have their kits within a day or two.

_Quote, originally posted by *speeding-g60* »_cool, but i was the second one to buy in to this GB, and of the first grouping of 5..... oh well, it will get here

Yep, your package is in Oregon now. Track the exact whereabouts via the FedEx tracking number that you should have received automatically (and I sent again this morning). Btw, the gains you'll get from the WAI will make it very dangerous to drive without a front suspension. So, be careful.
















_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_all i have to say is:
70* ambient temp- ait @ cruise = 26* under full boost, 26*----->21* by redline. APR stg 3 on tyrolsport side mount. I have yet to do any tuning at all....so this was a install and check if it works deal. By the way, ZERO timing pull across the board......time to add some timing!









*DING* That's exactly what you're supposed to get. Everybody can look forward to such benefits. Y'all are in for some wild times.























_Quote, originally posted by *kindbudz91G60* »_Yes hmmm. Seems like the east coast is getting theirs, rocky mountains will be a day or two behind that, and then the PNW last. Isn't USRT back east anyways?

Correct, the parts were shipped out the same day that we received them from Snow. We're in New Jersey, so it'll take a little while for the stuff to get across this big ol' country of ours.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: shipments (T-Boy)*

i read that too, i think its to keep the fluid from flowing backwards back into the tank if the pump is mounted higher then the tank.
Cant wait for mine, wish i would have gotten in on it earlier, so i could be installing it now










_Modified by theswoleguy at 2:13 PM 2-28-2007_


----------



## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

Still waiting.....








Any pics of yours installation guys ?


----------



## tw1nny03 (Mar 23, 2005)

*Re: (FerVR6)*

WOW!! Scott and USRT are great people! I'm having financial issues this month, and Scott was kind enough to refund my payment for the WAI kit. Not too many company would go the extra mile to take care of their customer. 
I will be buying the WAI kit from you when I'm good financially again. 
Thank you Scott.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (tw1nny03)*

i got mine today, and what scott said is exactly what i thought.... i am on the best coast, so it took longer to get here.... no worries. i will work on putting it to the car this week, evenings. 
thanks scott....


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (speeding-g60)*

Any ideas on mine scott i know i ordered last week and got in due to a back out, i just cant remember for the life of me when you said the parts would be in for my kit for it to be shipped, Sometime next week correct? Sorry just excited like the rest, and sorry about you guys having to fly blind due to the mishap.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*problem....*

hey scott, i may have a problem with my order..... 

i thought i was getting a STAGE 1 with safe injection??? it seems as if i ended up with a STAGE 2 * AND * safe injection..... since i am mapping my injection thru the SEM (haltech) i thought i was going to bypass the snow controller???








i think maybe i need to send you back a part or two? the vc-25??? let me know, i will get it out to you.... if it is not supposed to be here that is. i was just under the impression that you were going to do the stage 1 with safe injection in place of straight stage 2.... 
aaron


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: problem.... (speeding-g60)*

got im'd by scott, mistake was made with my kit. they accidentally sent me stg 2 controller with mine, so it will be going back to them. goin out tomorrow in the mail. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanks scott..... wheres my usrt sticker for the project???


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: problem.... (speeding-g60)*

Any info on the second shipment scott?







just excited and found out im not going to jail today or losing my license


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: problem.... (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_just excited and found out im not going to jail today or losing my license









All the more reason for more power, right?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: problem.... (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
All the more reason for more power, right?

more efficient power, wont have to work so hard to get there








i was on probation for a year for speeding tickets, them 1 -2pt eventually add up lol. But officer said i ran a stop sign, which is a violation of probation and i had to go to court for it. 36 days out from coming off and have yet to have a violation of probation so the judge was a little easier on me then the other guy and the fact theres a hill there and i drive a 5 speed. you know we tend to "roll" a little more.
One guy that was his 3rd strike on probation and the judge look at him and asked if he needed his license bc he could put him in jail for 405 days, i was like


----------



## Sttickman (Feb 25, 2002)

*Re: problem.... (theswoleguy)*

So all of you guys on the East side have gotten yours? Did you get tracking numbers? I'm in Ohio and still haven't received mine. And no correspondence of anykind. I ordered on the last day so maybe mine missed the order but I would like to hear something. Scott?


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: problem.... (Sttickman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sttickman* »_So all of you guys on the East side have gotten yours? Did you get tracking numbers? I'm in Ohio and still haven't received mine. And no correspondence of anykind. I ordered on the last day so maybe mine missed the order but I would like to hear something. Scott?









I talked to him yesterday (i called), they had severe server issues last week and trying to recover from the hard hit. So he is a little back log with getting emails out, he informed me that he still has 300 and some change emails unanswered and numerous PMs from the tex. Give him a call is the best way right now or wait for the email. Real cool guy and no issues answering question or being informative but hes a little backed up to just come on the text and hang out with us







I was told mine should be here sometime end of next week or that following wk and i got mine after ending due to a back out, and he is receiving a shipment from SP sometime between yesterday and this Fri, and itll be shipped no later then 3days later and on its way.







hopefully that helps you a little bro. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by theswoleguy at 8:29 AM 3-7-2007_


----------



## Sttickman (Feb 25, 2002)

*Re: problem.... (theswoleguy)*

Thanks for the update. That will keep me patient for a while.


----------



## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: problem.... (Sttickman)*

Its here !!!!







































Saturday will be installed !!


----------



## afmilboy02 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection ([email protected])*

what application would be best for my 2003jetta 1.8T with upsolute, aem cai, forge tip, 4 bar fpr, neuspeed fmic, unorthodox pulleys, ngk brk7e's, boostvalve mbc, turbo xs dv, ecs n75 valve, atp 3" dp w/ test pipe, 2.5" milltek c/b exhaust, tokico blue series shocks/struts, eibach pro kit springs, brembo drilled/slotted rotors, hp evo 18x8.5/18x9.5 rims,hella smoked tails, vdo led match boost gauge. a break down of all that i would need with cost fi you can... thanks in advance. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: problem.... (FerVR6)*

i cant wait till mine i hope scott gets them in soon so he can ship mine


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: problem.... (theswoleguy)*

any update on the last shipment Scott?
PS the reserves still want YOU


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (kindbudz91G60)*

scott: doin the install, got a quick question? if i go the 375 nozzle after fmic, and the 60 nozzle after TB, will i need to run a solenoid? keep in mind, i got the hsv as per your recommendations, to run off the SEM. my thoughts are that it will not pull thru until it is pulsed. and did you get the controller back yet? also, where can i get a chunk of the tubing, around 10 ft? need longer as i am running the pump in the side rear of the rabbit.... 
thanks....
aaron


----------



## tonytkt (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: problem.... (FerVR6)*

Fernando
Hi there, Im Tony from Mex also, Im assuming that you will use this on your VR6, but what this part does exactly? and if you can share some pictures when installed
Thanks, Cheers!
Tony


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: problem.... (tonytkt)*

cools the intake charge, allows more timing/boost safely.... read page one for most info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
and any real questions, call scott. he is *   THA MAN   * for customer service. i am going to order another kit for my street car, vr6 vortech SC'd mk3 GTI, instead of an fmic kit.





















































_Modified by speeding-g60 at 9:35 PM 3-12-2007_


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

*Re: (Galacius29)*

bump for USRT and Scott. great people and a great company. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: problem.... (tonytkt)*

Hola Tony !
Yes its for a VR... Now its installed and pulling hard !!








I still need to adjust the MAF volt in the Boost Control agains the A/F ratio.. but it in this moment the engine feels smooth, stronger and faster !

















INSTALL TIP: Use the position 4 of the MAF to get the volt reading, not the number 2...


----------



## VWChimera (Jul 9, 2004)

*Re: problem.... (FerVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FerVR6* »_









INSTALL TIP: Use the position 4 of the MAF to get the volt reading, not the number 2...










Whoa! What is going on in there?!


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: problem.... (FerVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FerVR6* »_











please tell me you are not just wrapping the ground wire around a screw for the alarm siren


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

still waiting for my kit


----------



## tonytkt (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: problem.... (speeding-g60)*

Thanks for headsup! speeding-g60, as you can see for the type of question Im kinda new to this, but cool to now know about it
Tony


----------



## tonytkt (Jul 15, 2004)

*Re: problem.... (FerVR6)*

Cool Fernando, nice setup you have there, the 2.8 sign looks familiar, was that take from another car?
Tony


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

muwaahahahahahahaha its been shipped and should be here on Patty's DAY


----------



## AutoCrosser11 (Jun 23, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

Megasweet, Got mine today


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (AutoCrosser11)*

Just thought i'd let everyone know....this stuff is like CRACK for my car.








5 Gallons of pure methanol


----------



## GT TDI Golf (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

Is it still possible to get in on this GB? If so I'm interested!!!


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (GT TDI Golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT TDI Golf* »_Is it still possible to get in on this GB? If so I'm interested!!!









it's over dude....LOL
But, i would give Scott a call.......you never know....


----------



## kindbudz91G60 (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

Time for some feedback people...
I got my setup installed on my 16VG60 in my Corrado. The G60 is tricky with the boost controller because it pushes so much boost by 2000 RPM. My motor has 8lbs. boost at 2K and increases to about 11 or 12 by redline. This gives me a small window to dial in the controller. I had it set at first to start at 5 psi, but that resulted is sucking down 4 liters (of fluid) in about a week. I have now set it to come in about 8psi and max out at about 15psi. My setup will never reach 15 psi so it will not max out the flow of the 175 nozzle. 
Running pretty good on 10:1 compression, but I have yet to d!ck with the timing. I just put a smaller pulley on the charger and the motor seems to be accepting it well.
my personal $0.02.........








Anybody else got theirs installed?


----------



## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (kindbudz91G60)*

ok I have a question for this.
passat motor with 10:5.1 compression and c16 race gas how will this hold up to it on 15psi.


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

Has anyone got in touch with Scott lately? I have been trying to reach him with no success.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*

i just got a PM from him the other day but i think he had some business to tend too, as i tried calling several times, or maybe scott actually decided to leave work for once


----------



## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection ([email protected])*

i have the stage 2 set up on my 1.8T and have really enjoyed the gains. no complaints. thanx guys.


----------



## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

If I got a kit like this, would that mean that I could get away with keeping my stock intercooler when I upgrade my turbo?


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_i just got a PM from him the other day but i think he had some business to tend too, as i tried calling several times, or maybe scott actually decided to leave work for once









Still nothing






















All I get is his answering machine


----------



## AutoCrosser11 (Jun 23, 2004)

OK, my turn to ask a question. still new to the world of tuning but I read and try to understand everything I get my hands on.
I have the MAF controller WI. it has to set point screws on the module with volt markings for the "turn on point" and the max MAF volt. that all makes sense to me. I log my timing and my MAF with my VAG-COM but the VAG-COM only gives the MAF reading in g/s. that's almost worthless to me. how are you guys/gals logging MAF voltage with timing?
I put a volt meter across the MAF and found at idle the voltage is 1.515v and my VAG-COM reads 3.82g/s at idle. from these two numbers I calculate that I can use .3966 to convert g/s to volts.
does this sound right? is there an easier way to do it? how are you guys tuning your MAF based systems?
Thanks for any help.


----------



## badbidet (Sep 13, 2005)

im curious about these kits...so you change timing with the kit for more power, so you always have to be running the mix. Is there a way to only run it when you want to? like a on off switch?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (badbidet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badbidet* »_im curious about these kits...so you change timing with the kit for more power, so you always have to be running the mix. Is there a way to only run it when you want to? like a on off switch?

I'll be wiring it up so I can switch it off. My ECU has stock, 91, 93, and 100 programs also, so I'll be in the 100 octane file when I'm running it and then I'll switch to the 93 when I'm not running the WAI.








I'll cover how I wired it when I do a writeup.


----------



## badbidet (Sep 13, 2005)

hmm. so you have to have the car spefically tuned for the kit, youcant have it just to beat someone off a light per say. That makes sense, looks like ill have ot get the race gas too when I get the apr k04 software. THanks, ill look forward to your writeup


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (badbidet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badbidet* »_hmm. so you have to have the car spefically tuned for the kit, youcant have it just to beat someone off a light per say. That makes sense, looks like ill have ot get the race gas too when I get the apr k04 software. THanks, ill look forward to your writeup

If I'm rockin the 93 octane file and decide I would like a bit more (stock IC gets hot from idling in the winter) then I'll just flick it on, but the 100 octane file is going to be tuned for it. Being my daily and only driver I don't want to _need_ to run WAI, and I'm quite positive that the need for running without it will come up often.
I ordered the TB spacer kit, already have the WAI kit, ordered a 5.5L tank, planning on having a shop make a IC to TB pipe that will avoid the HID ballast (and they'll thread it for a nozzle), and I've reserved the 9th and 10th to get this installed and tuned (about time, right?). I'll post up with my results.


----------



## stirfriedx9 (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*

i have a 2002 gti 1.8T, and the snow stage 2 maf kit. anyone know which coor wire from the maf im supposed to tap into to get the signal for the spray?


----------



## mckc (Oct 12, 2006)

*Re: (stirfriedx9)*

black wire on my car(2003 Jetta). Its the wire that reads between 1-2 volts at idle and goes up with throttle. Get a cheap multitester and probe the wires. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
dustin


----------



## juststarted (Apr 14, 2003)

*Re: (tyrone27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrone27* »_ok I have a question for this.
passat motor with 10:5.1 compression and c16 race gas how will this hold up to it on 15psi.

it will probably go boom... just imagine you running out of meth and then running straight 15psi to your engine...


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (mckc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mckc* »_black wire on my car(2003 Jetta). Its the wire that reads between 1-2 volts at idle and goes up with throttle. Get a cheap multitester and probe the wires. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
dustin 

Mine was also the black wire; pin #5.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
If I'm rockin the 93 octane file and decide I would like a bit more (stock IC gets hot from idling in the winter) then I'll just flick it on, but the 100 octane file is going to be tuned for it. Being my daily and only driver I don't want to _need_ to run WAI, and I'm quite positive that the need for running without it will come up often.
I ordered the TB spacer kit, already have the WAI kit, ordered a 5.5L tank, planning on having a shop make a IC to TB pipe that will avoid the HID ballast (and they'll thread it for a nozzle), and I've reserved the 9th and 10th to get this installed and tuned (about time, right?). I'll post up with my results.

so where are your results?


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_
so where are your results?

I'm busy and lazy, which makes for a terrible combination. I posted a thread the other day:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3429809
And I'll post up more this weekend (hopefully), once I change out the plugs and increase the flow on the pump.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (theAntiRiced)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theAntiRiced* »_
I'm busy and lazy, which makes for a terrible combination. I posted a thread the other day:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3429809
And I'll post up more this weekend (hopefully), once I change out the plugs and increase the flow on the pump.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection ([email protected])*

is the sale still on


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: USRT Group Buy: Snow Performance water/alky injection (highbeam)*

No, the group buy is 100 finished as indicated in the first post on the first page. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







We keep this thread open because it's rich with FAQ-type information. It gets reopened when we do group buys once a year or so.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: (ruso)*

any input on running this on a high compression CIS motronic car?


----------



## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: (twopointone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twopointone* »_any input on running this on a high compression CIS motronic car?

scott must be preoccupied. snow has a progressive kit that will work on non-efi n/a cars like your cis setup. since water/methanol is an octane boost it'll work great for high compression motors trying to survive on pump gas. 
paging scott williams...


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2007)

How high is "high"?


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_How high is "high"? 


12.5:1, also waiting for someone to try your ITB's


----------



## Guest (Nov 30, 2007)

We`ll sort you out with the correct setup. Email coming your way.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

heads up! My inbox is ready


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (twopointone)*

Actually, forget the email. What you need is a Stage2 NA kit. This is MAP-based just like the systems we provide for the turbo guys. However, the sensor is set up to more accurately read vacuum _up to_ atmospheric pressure rather than much _past_ it. You set the rpm point at which the spraying starts and the controller takes care of the delivery curve. An input from your coil also makes sure that the system arms only when the engine is running. Let me know your engine's approximate output (at the crank) and we'll get you sorted.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

here are my motor specs
16v ABA bored to 84.5 (2.1) with 12.5:1 forged pistons and scat rods
fully ported and polished head. polished comb chamber, polished and undercut valves
288 Techtonics cams
right now a 50mm VW intake
motronic CIS
full TT exhaust setup


_Modified by twopointone at 7:19 PM 12-5-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (twopointone)*

Well, you didn't answer my question about engine output. However, *if* you had enough fuel I figure that this combo could make about 200bhp. The CIS systems typically don't deliver enough for this kind of output, though. Fortunately, the methanol supplied by the WAI kit is supplementary fuel. So, the leaning problem that you'd probably get without it will likely be cured (and then some).
Anyway, I'd recommend starting with a 100cc nozzle and tweaking from there. Since there is no ECU to log, you'll need to tune on a dyno for best results. This should be a very potent combination. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I like what I am hearing


----------



## neonkiller (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: (twopointone)*

Can we get a deal and price on the stage 2 kit with the two injectors and plate for the throttle body? 
HP is in my sig. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thnks USRT.


----------



## stephan315 (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (neonkiller)*

Is there still a deal for vortexers on this?


----------



## frag85 (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (stephan315)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stephan315* »_Is there still a deal for vortexers on this?

bump?


----------



## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: (frag85)*

I'm ready to pick up a Boost Cooler 2 MAF setup. If there's a bit of a Vortex discount that would be awesome.


----------



## punkstalicious (Nov 18, 2006)

lets get another group buy!!!!!!!!!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (punkstalicious)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punkstalicious* »_lets get another group buy!!!!!!!!!

(sigh) Here's the straight poop, guys. You all know that I brought water/alcohol injection to the VW masses and that Snow Performance was my brand of choice. I believe strongly in the quality of their product line and remain very happy to promote their wares. However... Snow has been unable to fulfill kit orders for well over a month. It is thusly impossible for me to provide packages that they -the manufacturer -cannot supply.
That leaves me with two options. Either I passively wait for them to get their acts together or I offer an equally-engineered alternative. (I will NOT endorse an inferior system!) We do have another choice available that is a no-brainer from a hardware spec point of view. With that said, Snow doesn't provide USRT a market exclusive and can't rightfully expect USRT to do the same for them. But... I really don't care to confuse the market with a bunch of conflicting interests, messages, etc.
So... please allow me at least a short while to sort things out. I'd love to get a promotion going, but it has to be done in an orderly fashion that's responsible to all sides: the public, USRT, Snow & the "other company" (in that order)! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## punkstalicious (Nov 18, 2006)

Scott you're a gentleman and a scholar indeed. ill wait then
I can speak for myself cause i know itll be worth the wait. ill wait cause i also wanted to purchase some other of ur goodies


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (punkstalicious)*

Scott, what do you recommend for chiptune cars, Stage I or II?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pOrKcHoP bOy* »_Scott, what do you recommend for chiptune cars, Stage I or II?


Stage II is the only way to fly for all cars with factory ECUs that want to protect the engine from aggressive forced induction. Stage I is useful when paired with standalone engine management. It's also appropriate to use when taming a single stage of nitrous oxide. Using Stage I (on/off actuation) with boost makes as little sense as on/off fuel injection. It's really that simple!
Btw, I've made progress on sourcing kits. Folks are welcome to IM me privately about getting some deals. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Scott - you got any pics of the installed product? Need to see what kind of space requirements where talking about here. 
It would really helpful if you could show me pics of a direct port that is "tapped" into an SRI
Thanks


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## dankvwguy (Jul 24, 2005)

got the stage 2 kit in my car. having the progressive controller is great. i run mostly washer fluid but i have run boost juice a few times before. i am very interested to see how it affects my hp even though im mainly using it for cooling reasons.....
my setup








water/meth nozzle fitting had busted in this one (be sure to get the new ALL METAL fittings)








where it injects (it will be getting moved wen i do my FMIC)


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (dankvwguy)*

Thank you


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## JustTheTip (Jan 22, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

im sent http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JustTheTip (Jan 22, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Btw, I've made progress on sourcing kits. Folks are welcome to IM me privately about getting some deals. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

im sent http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## luisalbertoqa (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: (JustTheTip)*

need a maf / map controller from snow performance urgently!!!


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## oneeuro2c (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: (luisalbertoqa)*

IM sent


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## veedubbinn (Jan 25, 2009)

*Re: (ruso)*

bump for my buddy scott!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## G_Lader_91 (Dec 28, 2006)

Scott, Its Nathan with the 24v.

Working on the goods for the t/bs

Got the kit in today. I had to order the 2nd nozzle adapter for the stg2, other than that, kit is sick! Shooting for final install this weekend, then time for some tweeking and then dyno graph:thumbup:

Mad shout out to Scott for hands down, some of the best customer service I've received to date:thumbup:


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## jettagli_guy (Dec 12, 2007)

Scott, wjat would u reccommend for a 12v big turbo, running on lugtronics standalone? Would it be alright to run it at the intercooler? And I like the idea on the progressive setup.. And info or literature on everything I'm asking?


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