# Running E85 (Mix or full)



## Mr. Spade (Aug 17, 2016)

Is there any actual tune for E85 or a blend that's OTS?

What has your experience been with E85 (if any)?

I have a 1.8T Jetta 5MT. Currently on JB1 set to 4.0. I generally run 91 Oct or 4 gals E85 and 87 when found. There's been no issues.

I've also ran 4 gals E85 and 93 with JB1 set to 4.8. Only mod is a dry flow air filter and removal of snow guard in airbox.

If George is watching, will JB4 have capability to treat car as flex fuel and/or would we need a sensor?

Also, does anyone know the upper limits of injectors when flowing E85?


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## Attanasio666 (Apr 8, 2014)

Eeeh isn't the limit for the engine E10?! You'll probably damage your engine in the long run if you use E85. The seals, injectors, fuel pump, nothing is made for E85.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## Mr. Spade (Aug 17, 2016)

Attanasio666 said:


> Eeeh isn't the limit for the engine E10?! You'll probably damage your engine in the long run if you use E85. The seals, injectors, fuel pump, nothing is made for E85.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Most gas is already E10, some E15. The damage would occur in fuel lines and such in the long run if E85 is left to sit there and not used due to the high alcohol content to my knowledge.

I know there's several GTI guys that run E50-60 w/o issues. But I don't think anyone has really found the limit on MK 5/6/7 on a relatively stock set up.

I run E30 in my R56 Cooper S with just a tune no issues. Many newer cars are fine with E85. New Miata can run full E85 with just a tune. New F56 Cooper S just needs tune and flex fuel sensor. STI & Evo guys have been doing it for years.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

I already posed about this, the EA888 is safe up to E15, you cannot run E85 in
the EA888, unless it's in a car marked with FlexFUEL badging. I also posted a chart
in what VWs are Ethanol safe beyond E10, which is the norm. If you mix E85 and
E87, then you better know when it's going to go over E15. New sheetz stores going
up have E15 pumps now. All the EA888s are E15 capable.

Octane ratings are based on the (R+M)/2 rating, as seen on all the E10 pumps. You will notice
that an E15 pump, the octane rating is 88, and that is NOT the same rating. You don't see
an effective octane rating for E85 at 105-108 on the pump, because it's not the same method
as RUG.









This is what you're gonna start seeing.

VWs Ethanol Safe Chart:








According to the chart, VWs are safe starting in 2014. 

At present, BMW, Chrysler, Nissan and Toyota have said that the use of E15 can invalidate their new-car 
warranties if the fuel causes damage. Toyota has gone so far as to add a warning label on the fuel-filler
caps of its models from 2012 onward, stating: Up to E10 gasoline only.

General Motors has now approved E15 for its 2012 and newer models, and Porsche has approved it for all 
of its vehicles introduced since the 2001 model year.

Ethanlol reduces fuel mileage, and the cost does not justify using it. You will get more MPG
using E10 then E15 or E85. It's how they cheat not only octane ratings, but your MPG, you
need more Ethanol fuel to get the same MPG over 87 octane E10. Even if E85 is a dollar cheaper,
you need more of it to get the same miles that the same tank of 87 octane E10 gives you. 
E85 on average produces around 25 Mega Joules of Energy per liter of fuel, while normal 98 
Octane petrol will normally produce in excess of 33 Mega Joules of Energy per liter so for 
this reason alone we will always use much more E85 fuel to achieve the same result.

*From Various texts:* and my 2-cents...

The next interesting fact about E85 ethanol based fuels is that it reaches stoichiometry at an air/fuel 
ratio of 9.7:1 compared to an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 for gasoline meaning for any given application you 
will use as a minimum of 30% and in many cases closer to 50% more fuel to achieve the same result. 
Part of the reason for this that E85, and in fact any alcohol based fuel has a much lower calorific value
or in simple terms the same amount of fuel contains much less energy.

Plus, with older cars E15+ can damage your engine, and there is ALWAYS some left in the hose before
you fuel. So, if you can't use E15, then you need to use another pump that does not have the E15
option, you do NOT want any of it. So, even if you pump other grades of gas from a single hose pump 
that dispenses it because there is always some left in the hose; you WILL get some in your tank. 

I have used E15 about 5 times in my '15 TSI... 

Basically, they're force feeding us a fuel that benefits a few thousand corn farmers
and ethanol refiners at the expense of virtually every other American... 

*Turbo Motors:*
Because of the requirement for much higher fuel consumption it is normal practice to replace the 
whole fuel system in a performance application with much higher flowing components. If you 
required 600cc injectors and a 250litre per hour fuel pump with petrol, then it is fair to assume 
you will need at least 1000cc injectors and closer to 450 litre per hour fuel pump, but normally 
it is safer to go even bigger because as discussed earlier, you can now run even higher boost 
which in turn will require more fuel again.

Having a higher octane rating, slows down the burn rate of the combustion cycle. This means that it is 
possible to increase the boost level, compression ratio, and/or timing advance and return the mixture
to a burn rate similar to that of gasoline, having a comparable level of ’safety’ in the cylinder, a similar 
mixture volatility, but albeit at a much higher power level.

On average it is not uncommon to see power increases of more than 30% in a turbocharged vehicle over
pump fuel and more than 10% power increases are not uncommon over a comparable unleaded race 
fuel, but again, every application is different and there is no golden rule. The bottom line is though is it is 
unlikely you will ever see a car go backwards by making the switch, they will always make more power on E85.

*The Corrosion Myth:*
There have been many rumors going around that E85, which is biodegradable in water, can corrode a 
vehicle's fuel system, including the fuel tank. Although E85 is corrosive, it is not much more corrosive 
than regular gas. *The chemical properties of E85 are not what cause the corrosion; it is the water 
in E85 that may cause rust and block up the fuel system.*

*There are also many different ways E85 is made:*
In Australia Ethanol is made from either wheat or sugar cane. 
In the USA it is made from corn.
Finland it is manufactured from bio-waste.
Ireland it is made from whey which is a by product of Cheese production.

*E85 is not for DAILY drivers despite it's impact on the environment:*
So now bears the question....... do you set your engine up to run on E85? Well the reality it is, probably depends on 
what you want to do with your car. If you have a daily driver that you occasionally take to the racetrack or dragstrip, 
then I say "certainly not," as the practicality of filling up at your local station will far outweigh the extra power gains. 
If however your car is predominantly used at the circuit or strip then in our opinion it would be pretty much a no 
brainer. A cooler running engine with a fair bit more power is what most people would be after. That and the fact is OK 
for the environment and that it devoid of all the toxic carcinogens that some race fuels contain are also a bonus. 
So the fact that you have to spend a bit extra buying the right bits, just remember you will end up with probably more 
than 30% more power, I bet the next 30% you try and find costs an awful lot more than the E85 setup.

I will never use E85, even if my car can run on it.


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## Mr. Spade (Aug 17, 2016)

Hmm, interesting to know about the corrosion part.

I was familiar with it needing more fuel to accomplish the same goal, nice to have numbers to it.

In my experience running 4 gals E85 with the rest 87, I've effectively created 92.5 octane, enough to run the JB1 at 4.0.

Given that 90% of my driving is in rush hour traffic, I lose about 30 miles or less, bringing my total to 290 from 320 on 93.

It has actually been cheaper. Knowing what you've said now, I won't be going over that amount in E85 mix.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

4 Parts E85 with 10 parts E10 RUG, is E32 rounded up...

That being 14 gallons in a 14.5 gallon tank.


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