# Journal Bearing Precision VRT guys - Are you running an oil restrictor



## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

So im building a 6262 (journal bearing) VRT and i was not planning to install a restrictor, a customer came in to install a 5857 journal bearing kit on his b6 A4 and he is preaching up and down about restrictors and will be running a 0.065 restrictor on his. 


Inputs appreciated 

Pete K


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

I don't run a restrictor on my journal Precision. Speaking to Precision themselves, no restrictor required.

Have a bb Precision, no restrictor there either, again per their instructions.


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

and i assume you dont have any problems


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Make sure the drain is larger than a 10an, no such thing as overkill here. Russell makes an inline pressure gauge adapter that can use to measure inlet pressure.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

optiks said:


> and i assume you dont have any problems


Never had an issue with any Precision turbo (I know this is not the same for other users here). I daily drive the journal billet, no problems at all. 

I was a bit skeptical about the newer bb (non-water cooled) because at the time information from other people was sketchy and it had not been on the market for that long. The "restrictor" is internal to their newer bb center assembly itself so no additional restriction is required.


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

might aswell post your feed and drain setup, I have 4AN and 10AN return but the engine hasnt started yet


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

you should not fit restrictors to journal bearing turbo's as the bearing works using oil pressure to "float" the shaft.

you should fit as a restrictor to cermanic/ball bearing turbo's to prevent the bearings from becoming flooded with oil and fail unless there is one fitted already in the turbo housing.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I run a 3an feed and a 16an drain on my holset.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

My recomendations are for a 3an feed and a 10an drain. I have installed dozens of the PT journal bearing turbos and this seems to work the best. If you start running restrictors where they shouldnt be then you will starve your turbo oil pressure at idle and that will kill them faster then to much pressure.

Also make sure your drain is pointing somewhat down and drains above the oil level in the oil pan. I actually tap just above the oil pan in the block on VWs.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

My theory is the drain line needs to have the same internal diameter as the drain in hole in the turbo. I agree using restrictors are silly to use based on others experience with hard data to prove otherwise.


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Have had a journal bearing precision sc61 for 4+ years on both a 1.8t and now a vr6t. Always had a restrictor and never had any issues.

Have a ceramic bb5857 now on the 1.8t with the included restrictor and it smokes like hell. They will warranty it but such a pain to pull hardware and ship off and risk the same bs.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Yareka said:


> Have had a journal bearing precision sc61 for 4+ years on both a 1.8t and now a vr6t. Always had a restrictor and never had any issues.
> 
> Have a ceramic bb5857 now on the 1.8t with the included restrictor and it smokes like hell. They will warranty it but such a pain to pull hardware and ship off and risk the same bs.


Did you measure the oil pressure at the turbo?


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

negative, didnt measured since I didnt have an issue with any of these turbos on practically the same setup. 
28r--2871r--30r--35r--no problems...but now it smokes with this precision :banghead:


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Yareka said:


> negative, didnt measured since I didnt have an issue with any of these turbos on practically the same setup.
> 28r--2871r--30r--35r--no problems...but now it smokes with this precision :banghead:


The reason I ask is because some oiling systems already have the pressure set to ideal on the feed from the factory. Two oil restrictors on a system like that will starve the turbo.


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## VDubMeister (Apr 11, 2010)

TIGninja said:


> My recomendations are for a 3an feed and a 10an drain. I have installed dozens of the PT journal bearing turbos and this seems to work the best. If you start running restrictors where they shouldnt be then you will starve your turbo oil pressure at idle and that will kill them faster then to much pressure.
> 
> Also make sure your drain is pointing somewhat down and drains above the oil level in the oil pan. I actually tap just above the oil pan in the block on VWs.


Do you have any pictures of where you tap the block for the oil return? I ask because I'm actually having a issue of oil being pushed past the exhaust seal on my new Precision 60 Trim. I've also contacted Precision and they instructed to NOT run a restrictor. Sent some pictures of my oil return setup to them and they told me to redesign it. So I thought I might run it into the block just above the oil pan. Unfortunately the setup I'm running now is the stock setup from kinetic and I don't have much more room to run a smooth transition AN fitting into the pan. I don't see why anyone else is not having a issue with their setup but I figured I would do what Precision said. Here's my setup now. Sorry for Hijacking thread.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

I will take some pictures of mine in a little while.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)




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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

VDubMeister said:


> I've also contacted Precision and they instructed to NOT run a restrictor.


Exactly how you should be running it.



VDubMeister said:


> Unfortunately the setup I'm running now is the stock setup from kinetic and I don't have much more room to run a smooth transition AN fitting into the pan. I don't see why anyone else is not having a issue with their setup but I figured I would do what Precision said.


My Mk3 return line is identical to this ... never had a problem, can't fathom why you would need to "redesign" your return system. Assuming no kinks, blockage etc, the way you presently have it run is fine. 

Wondering if your oil pressure is too high due to some other reason.


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## VDubMeister (Apr 11, 2010)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Exactly how you should be running it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oil pressure is about 25 PSI at idle spikes to 72 PSI when revving


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

General rule of thumb is 60psi max.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

10an is too small. Run a bigger drain, get a bigger bung for the pan. Route the drain line between the axle and firewall.


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## VDubMeister (Apr 11, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> 10an is too small. Run a bigger drain, get a bigger bung for the pan. Route the drain line between the axle and firewall.


I'll give it a try.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

VDubMeister said:


>





VDubMeister said:


> I'll give it a try.


That drain is a recipe for disaster. Oil comes crashing down into the fitting, no smooth transition. I know there are tons of kinetics cars out there, but just because they are fine does not mean its correct

Mine:










.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Restrictor on a garrett journal bearing = no issues. I've seen plenty have issues with oil smoking running no restrictor.

A shaft can "float" on a film of oil without the oil being under high pressure.

Not 100%, but I think my oil pressure gauge shows 8-9 bar when it's cold out. 120-130psi. Were the seals of the turbo meant to see pressures that high?

My oil return looks like the one in the 2nd pic.


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## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

nice hose clamp on that oil return. :wave:
edit: slc, OP talking bout PTE not garrett.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

jettatech said:


> nice hose clamp on that oil return. :wave:
> edit: slc, OP talking bout PTE not garrett.


Is there a difference between one journal bearing turbo and another as far as whether or not a oil restrictor should be run?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

jettatech said:


> nice hose clamp on that oil return. :wave:
> edit: slc, OP talking bout PTE not garrett.


I fail at getting AN fittings together correctly. That was done at about 3am in the morning, 4 hours before the car was going to my exhaust guy to get the downpipe done. It had to run, and I was awake about 22hours on 4 hours of sleep.

It doesnt leak so i dont give a **** really.

PTE= Garrett for the longest time, or least they were using a lot of garrett parts at one point.


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## VDubMeister (Apr 11, 2010)

TIGninja said:


> My recomendations are for a 3an feed and a 10an drain. I have installed dozens of the PT journal bearing turbos and this seems to work the best. If you start running restrictors where they shouldnt be then you will starve your turbo oil pressure at idle and that will kill them faster then to much pressure.
> 
> Also make sure your drain is pointing somewhat down and drains above the oil level in the oil pan. I actually tap just above the oil pan in the block on VWs.


I just reread this post and I'm pretty sure my oil feed line is a -4. I wonder if this could be the problem? I'm not sure its a -4 but looking on Kinetics site they sell everything individually that they include in the kit. Given that, the only oil supply line and 90 degree AN to NPT fitting they sell according to this page http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/catalog/Oil_Feed_Drain-24-1.html is -4. I've read on several sites -3 should be used for oil supply.


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## jetdavdub (Mar 13, 2006)

the filter housing on the vr6 shoots some high oil pressure I had to run a restrictor on my turbonetics/garret turbo(journal bearing, water cooled also) dont want to be blowing out seals. Some do need them, just check the pressure to know for sure. Sounds like they at precision know it's ok for that application.


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## ragu9000 (Apr 16, 2007)

im running a ceramic 5857. would smoke with the 4an fitting and the built in restrictor. I added another and it stopped but I will take it out. also I have very dark tar like oil build up on the inlet of the turbo and i also have this (see below) this was taken from the bottom of the car. any idea what that is leaking out of the exhaust side? Feed is 4an and return is 10an








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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

-4 feed, -10 return, journal bearing billet 6262 on a 24v, no restrictor, no problems thus far..5-6k on this particular kit.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

-4 feed and -10 return... turbo is a PT61 and I am using a restrictor from atp... turbo doesnt have any issues.. does not smoke and no play at all, almost like new  and its been on my car since 2008 :thumbup::beer:


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

what size restrictor


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

.065 if i remember correctly... its in atp's site


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

PjS860ct said:


> .065 if i remember correctly... its in atp's site


I used the drill your own from atp and I think I remember using a 1/16 drill bit which is .063.

Again not a Precision, but no issues on a Garrett journal for 2 years.

This debate seems to never end, but it seems like all the people having issues with Kinetic kits smoking etc. are the ones that aren't using restrictors.


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## dasbeast3.0 (Aug 15, 2007)

I use a -4 feed & .063 restrictor as well. (-10 drain w/ smooth 90) 10w30 mobile 1. Never had a problem. The turbo had around 10k w/ this exact setup. No oil leaks, no shaft play. :thumbup:


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## VDubMeister (Apr 11, 2010)

A little update on the situation I was having with my precision unit. I reworked the oil drain as many suggested to come around the back side of the axle with a smooth transition into the oil pan. I don't remember exactly what I was doing but I had the compressor inlet tube off the turbo. For some reason I glanced inside and saw obvious signs the wheel had come in contact with the housing. To make a long story short since it was only about a year old and I had been having this problem with it smoking from day one I contacted precision again. They had me send it in, they took it apart and said they where going to take care of it, no questions asked really. Not sure what was wrong, but I know it oozed oil from the exhaust turbine back plate from the day I installed it. Maybe one of the seals wasn't installed correctly or was damaged during installation. Looks like it got and new compressor wheel, turbine shaft, and exhaust housing and of course new seals. They reused the center section. So now that I have the new unit on and the oil drain reworked things seem to be a lot better. Its not smoking constantly like it was how ever while its cold, it may or may not give a puff of blue smoke until it is warmed up thoroughly. It just depends on how it feels. Once everything is warm it doesn't seem to be an issue unless its been idling extensively. This leads me to believe the oil during a pressure spike is being forced out the exhaust housing seal. I'll have the remove the downpipe to verify this though.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

That's positive feedback for Precision, glad that they could help you out. Fortunately I've never had to send any Precision unit back. I do have a Garrett that needs re-working... wonder how receptive they will be?

Your oil pressure does not seem that high. During cruise I typically see ~ 50 psi and on hard accel (beating the crap out of it) 70 psi and still no oil issues.

Are you sure *all *of your oil/smoke issues are isolated to the turbo and not also motor related?


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## VDubMeister (Apr 11, 2010)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> That's positive feedback for Precision, glad that they could help you out. Fortunately I've never had to send any Precision unit back. I do have a Garrett that needs re-working... wonder how receptive they will be?
> 
> Your oil pressure does not seem that high. During cruise I typically see ~ 50 psi and on hard accel (beating the crap out of it) 70 psi and still no oil issues.
> 
> Are you sure *all *of your oil/smoke issues are isolated to the turbo and not also motor related?


Defiantly :thumbup: for Precision. You may be right about the smoke coming from somewhere else. I won't know until I pull the downpipe. This thing has been one big headache over the last year.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

VDubMeister said:


> This thing has been one big headache over the last year.


Welcome to the wonderful world of VR6 Turbo.


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## SpOoOling1.8T (Dec 12, 2004)

I have a 6262 on my VRT and after sitting for the winter I started it up and smoked at idle after warm up.. if you reve it it would creat a cloud of smoke.. I redid my drain with a bigger one and less kinks same thing smokes white and smells like oil and Precision Rebuild the unit once alreadywhile under warranty.. I took the turbo of last night and there was oil on the Exhaust turbine wheel where the metal cap is under the wheel. Also oil on the turbine housing where it sits.. Im going to install a restrictor because this is crazy cant just keep rebuilding the turbo.. 

I also been reading around the precision has has alot of issues with their units lately


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

SpOoOling1.8T said:


> I redid my drain with a bigger one and less kinks same thing smokes white and smells like oil and Precision Rebuild the unit once alreadywhile under warranty..
> I also been reading around the precision has has alot of issues with their units lately


 I maintain that in most cases this issue is *unrelated *to oil return. I've had various turbos, Precision and others all running a similarly routed oil return line as most of you guys. You either had/have a faulty turbo or an oil pressure issue (due to your motor).


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## VDubMeister (Apr 11, 2010)

Thinking about running a cylinder leak down test. What are acceptable percentages?


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## g-rocco60 (Sep 8, 2006)

wow, never thought of running a restrictor. i have a 12v with a 6262 journal. i have -4 feed and -10 drain. my car puffs out blue smoke once the oil temps climb to normal temps. not sure if its the turbo or the fact that i have a bone stock block with 160xxx miles :screwy: turbo setup has about 2000 miles on it


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

g-rocco60 said:


> wow, never thought of running a restrictor. i have a 12v with a 6262 journal. i have -4 feed and -10 drain. my car puffs out blue smoke once the oil temps climb to normal temps. not sure if its the turbo or the fact that i have a bone stock block with 160xxx miles :screwy: turbo setup has about 2000 miles on it


I would put a 3an feed line on it ASAP.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

g-rocco60 said:


> wow, never thought of running a restrictor. i have a 12v with a 6262 journal. i have -4 feed and -10 drain. my car puffs out blue smoke once the oil temps climb to normal temps. not sure if its the turbo or the fact that i have a bone stock block with 160xxx miles :screwy: turbo setup has about 2000 miles on it


Or you could keep listening to the guys that insist you don't need oil restrictors on jb turbos despite oil pressures as high as 150psi on a VR. :facepalm:


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

The VR6 has no higher oil pressure then any other car ever built and no factory turbo cars run oil restrictors. So what does that tell you?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

slcturbo said:


> despite oil pressures as high as 150psi on a VR. :facepalm:


That sounds pretty excessive, does your car run that high?  

Each setup is unique but I have never seen a VR run oil pressure that high (not on initial cold start nor at high RPM). The stock oil pump is supposedly top-end governed (though I can't recall what its upper limit is). If people are regularly seeing that kind of oil pressure they might have some other issues at hand.


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

slcturbo said:


> Or you could keep listening to the guys that insist you don't need oil restrictors on jb turbos despite oil pressures as high as 150psi on a VR. :facepalm:


If you're seeing 150psi, you have problems.

The VR6 makes no more oil pressure than any other motor. The 4.6 DOHC's in the 03/04 Cobras have notoriously high oil pressures and there's guys running journal bearing turbos all day long with no restrictors.

Not that it matters much, but I have had my 6262 on for over a week now, no restrictor, no problems. Cold starts every morning and it got run hard yesterday up through the mountains.


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## VeteRan6 (Apr 5, 2008)

Good . i hope it last longer than mine !! 

slcturbo :thumbup:

i just blew mine on cold start with that exact setup and thinking about putting restrictor (.065")

maybe reamed to .1

If it goes wrong again i'm gonna switch back to garrett . i pay 1000 for a turbo that last 150 miles !!



i'm actually waiting for precision to call me back .


g-rocco60 : just check the d/p and center section for leaks . I THINK WE HAVE ANOTHER WINNER OF PRECISION LOTTERIE!!


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

djsheijkdfj said:


> If you're seeing 150psi, you have problems.
> 
> The VR6 makes no more oil pressure than any other motor. The 4.6 DOHC's in the 03/04 Cobras have notoriously high oil pressures and there's guys running journal bearing turbos all day long with no restrictors.
> 
> Not that it matters much, but I have had my 6262 on for over a week now, no restrictor, no problems. Cold starts every morning and it got run hard yesterday up through the mountains.


No problems here. 8-10 bar on cold mornings/cold motor. That's just under 150psi. Had 3 slc's and they've all done that. 

Again. Restrictor and no issues.

Run what you want, but where are all the issues from the guys running restrictors on jb turbos? I haven't seen it. Usually the other way around.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> That sounds pretty excessive, does your car run that high?
> 
> Each setup is unique but I have never seen a VR run oil pressure that high (not on initial cold start nor at high RPM). The stock oil pump is supposedly top-end governed (though I can't recall what its upper limit is). If people are regularly seeing that kind of oil pressure they might have some other issues at hand.


You have a mk3 and mk4 in your sig. I have an oil pressure gauge in my car. Do you regularly monitor oil pressure on mk3's and 4's?


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

You know. I think there is a oil pressure bypass on that pump. I was just looking at some pics of these pumps and it sure looks like one. Now I havent looked but if your hitting 150psi pressures I bet thats not working properly on your car.


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

hes going of stock vw gauges.. like the temp gauge will stay in the center but could range from 180* to 220* but 150psi.. calling bs unless you have the time slips to prove other wise..


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

slcturbo said:


> You have a mk3 and mk4 in your sig. I have an oil pressure gauge in my car. Do you regularly monitor oil pressure on mk3's and 4's?


Yep, monitor oil pressure on *all *my cars (vr or otherwise). Mk3 is daily driven and never sees in excess of 75-80 psi (due to external oil cooler and associated plumbing, ~6ft). Mk4 will read right around 100 psi initially on cold start but soon tapers back to a sane 75-80 psi. All other non-turbo vr applications, 80. Again, that pump is governed so I am not sure why people are getting oil pressure that high. It is a moot point though, if your setup is working for you and you are not blowing your turbo up then kudos to you. :thumbup:


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

slcturbo said:


> No problems here. 8-10 bar on cold mornings/cold motor. That's just under 150psi.


You have something wrong with your pump then.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

djsheijkdfj said:


> You have something wrong with your pump then.


either that or hes using grease for motor oil and running it to redline on cold start.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Precision 6265, -4 feed, -10 drain, no restrictor, no issues
Block has 150+k miles, pushes 28psi


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

24 valve
6265 journal bearing 
-4 feed
-? restrictor + 90º Elbow
-10 return into oilpan

it's been mint.:beer:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Lieutenant Dan said:


> 6265 journal bearing
> 
> it's been mint.:beer:


Any idea what your oil pressure is?


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

2 guys up there with 6262 12v got any vids ? i wanna see what my car will be like im dying to get it running


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

djsheijkdfj said:


> You have something wrong with your pump then.


Incorrect.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Yep, monitor oil pressure on *all *my cars (vr or otherwise). Mk3 is daily driven and never sees in excess of 75-80 psi (due to external oil cooler and associated plumbing, ~6ft). Mk4 will read right around 100 psi initially on cold start but soon tapers back to a sane 75-80 psi. All other non-turbo vr applications, 80. Again, that pump is governed so I am not sure why people are getting oil pressure that high. It is a moot point though, if your setup is working for you and you are not blowing your turbo up then kudos to you. :thumbup:


Really? So you drive around with an oil pressure gauge hooked up in all temps/conditions?

Can I ask why? I've been a tech for ~10 years and had to monitor oil pressure maybe 3x.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

TIGninja said:


> either that or hes using grease for motor oil and running it to redline on cold start.


Redline 10W-30. Cold start sees idle only. 8-10bar in colder weather settling to ~2bar at idle when fully warmed up. 100% normal. 

All 3 of my slc's have done this:thumbup:

The car has been drag raced consistently for 4 years without issue. If there was a problem I would have know it by now:beer:


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

slcturbo said:


> Incorrect.




You realize that you can quote multiple posts in one reply right? 

You should not be seeing 150 psi oil pressure under any circumstance, unless you pumped a tube of lithium grease into your crankcase and started it in the middle of winter. The pump has a bypass valve, apparently yours isn't working.




optiks said:


> 2 guys up there with 6262 12v got any vids ? i wanna see what my car will be like im dying to get it running


No vids but it runs pretty good on 10lbs. I'm running out of fuel at the very top on anything more - good ol' OBD1 limited tuning options. I have the .82 T3 hotside and it starts coming on around 3500, and really comes alive at 4000. No tire spin in 2nd gear like I had with the stock Kinetic turbo, and power comes on smooth and strong.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

slcturbo said:


> Really? So you drive around with an oil pressure gauge hooked up in all temps/conditions?
> 
> Can I ask why? I've been a tech for ~10 years and had to monitor oil pressure maybe 3x.


Answer: Yes

Explanation: Follows below - 

Your post has me baffled. Let us start with the fact that oil pressure is the single most critical parameter upon engine start-up, fact. Let me challenge you as a tech by asking what other parameter can singly lead to engine failure other than lack of oil pressure (ie lubrication) on start-up?

Refer to just about any engine related industry other than automobile (aircraft, marine) and engine start procedure per checklist *mandates *that oil pressure be verified immediately upon start-up (oil temp being secondary) and if not acceptable the motor must be immediately shut down. Cars are no different and since you are a tech, you will know that most of the high end cars (see Jaguar, Porsche, etc) do also come with oil pressure gauges stock for the reasons I just mentioned. 

VW went to the extent of fitting 2 independent oil pressure alerting systems (high dynamic and low pressure warnings) that not only have an idiot light but an aural buzzer if oil pressure requirements are not met. Why then would I not want to monitor oil pressure in all temps and conditions? The high and low pressure warning systems on your VW are not conditional, they function at all times. That being said, a lot of guys delete the stock oil pressure sender and replace it with the aftermarket one for the gauge (in this case it would be very unwise NOT to always run the oil pressure gauge as your idiot light is now eliminated). Beyond this, after going to the trouble to install an oil pressure sender why would you disconnect your gauge? I am not understanding your rationale here.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Who said I disconnected anything?

Again, 3 slc's and they've all behaved the same way. The engine has run flawless since the rebuild 15k ago and doesn't burn a drop of oil. I appreciate your concern, but I can't say I share your sentiments:beer:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

djsheijkdfj said:


> You realize that you can quote multiple posts in one reply right?
> 
> You should not be seeing 150 psi oil pressure under any circumstance, unless you pumped a tube of lithium grease into your crankcase and started it in the middle of winter. The pump has a bypass valve, apparently yours isn't working.
> 
> .


1) I choose not to because you like it so much.

2) My car is fine, but thanks for the concern


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

slcturbo said:


> Who said I disconnected anything?
> 
> Again, 3 slc's and they've all behaved the same way. The engine has run flawless since the rebuild 15k ago and doesn't burn a drop of oil. I appreciate your concern, but I can't say I share your sentiments:beer:


Really not a concern. You asked a question and I provided valid answers. If you go back to an earlier post of mine I have stated that I'm happy that you have no issues. Ultimately I don't care what any of you guys do to your cars. I wish you continued success but to think that monitoring oil pressure is a temporary state especially with 150 psi then ... it's all on you.


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

slcturbo said:


> 2) My car is fine, but thanks for the concern



Never said it wasn't, and I have no concern.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Back on topic...

If my seals were blown due to excessive oil pressure; would the car be smoking all the time? My buddy says I don't smoke at all while in WOT and full boost  it does smoke a little on warm up and decel


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

dub_slug said:


> I don't smoke at all while in WOT and full boost  it does smoke a little on warm up and decel



That's exactly what mine did when the seals were blown. James Bond all over the ****ing place.

It might be a function of EGT & flow, ie for the volume of oil leaking (volume being constant since this particular turbo had a restrictor), if the temp exceeds a certain level the rate of burn and gas flow is so rapid that you don't "see" the smoke plume (but oil is still being burned). When you slow down the oil burns slower and the overall rate of exhaust gas is less (the smoke stagnates and you see it).


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Hmm that's very interesting. Where would I go about getting an inline oil pressure gauge so that I can make sure I'm not doing something wrong? :thumbup:
Or can I log oil pressure through VAG-COM?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

If your oil pressure sender is tapped off the oil filter housing (which I assume is where you are running your oil feed line from) then the pressure will be identical (assuming no additional restriction in your oil line itself). 

If your oil feed is from someplace other than the filter housing then your concern is valid and you might need to monitor pressure literally from the line itself (uncommon).

Never checked oil pressure in Vag-Com but who knows, might be possible?


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

I'll be doing some logs via vag-com to see what pressures I'm running. But for now the gti will be back off the road since I stripped 3rd gear at 22psi...gonna save up for the aptuning gforce setup :thumbup:


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

dub_slug said:


> will be back off the road since I stripped 3rd gear at 22psi...gonna *save up for the aptuning gforce setup* :thumbup:


^ this is what i did after my 2nd stock trans with a quaife broke 3rd gear... i love the straight cut 3rd and 4th!!! :thumbup::beer: I want to get another set and build a back up trans :beer:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

So.... a friend installed a "kit" last weekend from Kinetic on his 1.8T with a Precision JB and it was interesting to note that it came with a restrictor supplied. Is Kinetic covering their azz given the problems that people have been having with Precision JB units or do they know something that the general users/installers are not being told by Precision? I'm not sure on the specs of the feed & drain supplied with the said kit. 

Just thought I'd stir the pot a little. FWIW, still not using a restrictor on mine and not having problems (~25,000 miles on mine now).


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

I have a good 3,000 miles on my 6262 journal bearing, no restrictor, no problems. :thumbup:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

djsheijkdfj said:


> I have a good 3,000 miles on my 6262 journal bearing, no restrictor, no problems. :thumbup:


Good to hear but rack up a few more thousand on it. I should be around 30K within another couple of months (~2) or so. That being said people have had failures at your mileage or less. Perhaps you posted already but what is the spec on your feed line? It seems as if the "issue installations" are the ones with a -4 feed/-10 return. I think the failures with the -3 feed on the Precision JB are less common. What I'm seeing is that the guys with the -4 feed lines either are running a restrictor and/or a larger drain as people in this thread have already suggested.


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

-4/-10 here.

I think it's -4 anyway, whatever comes with the Kinetic kit. I know it's a -10 drain because I just swapped to a braided line last week.

EDIT - I should also mention, I'm running 5w30, and not some retardedly thick oil that everyone likes to pimp out for the VR's. Journal bearing turbo with no restrictor, 5w30 oil, 9.5:1 compression on a turbo motor.... by Vortex definition, my car should have blown up long by now.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

djsheijkdfj said:


> -4/-10 here.
> 
> I think it's -4 anyway, whatever comes with the Kinetic kit. I know it's a -10 drain because I just swapped to a braided line last week.


I run -4/-10 also.

I have been meaning to increase the -10 return on my Mk3 for a long time but it keeps falling to the bottom of my priority list. I think -10 is acceptable but in a minimal form. I'd really like Kinetic et al to start supplying larger return lines. Ultimately I will probably go with a -12.




djsheijkdfj said:


> Journal bearing turbo with no restrictor, 5w30 oil, 9.5:1 compression on a turbo motor.... by Vortex definition, my car should have blown up long by now.


Lol, you are correct!

I don't even want to start the compression and oil topics up.


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## DubmyRUCA (May 22, 2007)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...replace-it-here-is-a-tip!-check-your-pressure 

Maybe some pertinent info.


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Found oil in my intercooler pipes today, pretty sure it's pushing it out on the turbine side as well. 

Another 6262 killed by a VR. Will be running a restrictor next time whether Precision says OK or not.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

Will be running a restrictor on my JBearing 6766 soon  i used a restrictor on my old Pt 61 turbo and it was still good when i sold it 3years later


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

i started this thread last year, i have been running a restrictor all season and have had 0 problems


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

I might try just sticking a restrictor on mine and seeing if that resolves the problem rather than having to take it off and be without the car for who knows how long while Precision tries fervently to find a reason why it's my fault....


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

djsheijkdfj said:


> while Precision tries fervently to find a reason why it's my fault....


It's sad, but true.

On my setup I bought an undrilled oil inlet flange and then drilled it to a size I wanted, which was a slightly larger than the standard oil restrictor most people use. 0.065" seemed a bit small. No problems thus far on a -4 / -10 setup... not many miles on it yet though.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

djsheijkdfj said:


> I might try just sticking a restrictor on mine and seeing if that resolves the problem.


It should.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Precision 6031 w/restrictor. It was reccomended by Precision as they stated without the restrictor the excess oil would bleed through the oil seals. Meh.


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Stangy said:


> Precision 6031 w/restrictor. It was reccomended by Precision as they stated without the restrictor the excess oil would bleed through the oil seals. Meh.


They told you to use a restrictor?!?!?! Sounds like they've changed their tune.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

djsheijkdfj said:


> They told you to use a restrictor?!?!?! Sounds like they've changed their tune.


Lol, yep cuz they have always been adamant not to *run *a restrictor unless you have abnormally high oil pressure.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Straight from horses mouth haha. Nik from cts Turbo! If I am not mistaken he says he reccomends it for all t3/t4 turbos. This was months ago so I may be off.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Stangy said:


> Straight from horses mouth haha. Nik from cts Turbo! If I am not mistaken he says he reccomends it for all t3/t4 turbos. This was months ago so I may be off.





V-dubbulyuh said:


> Lol, yep cuz they have always been adamant not to *run *a restrictor unless you have abnormally high oil pressure.





djsheijkdfj said:


> They told you to use a restrictor?!?!?! Sounds like they've changed their tune.





Stangy said:


> Precision 6031 w/restrictor. It was reccomended by Precision as they stated without the restrictor the excess oil would bleed through the oil seals. Meh.





V-dubbulyuh said:


> It should.





optiks said:


> i started this thread last year, i have been running a restrictor all season and have had 0 problems


LOL i guess restrictors do work after all :laugh: everytime i mention it 900 people swear their turbos were destroyed by running them lol :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

Big_Tom said:


> LOL i guess restrictors do work after all :laugh: everytime i mention it 900 people swear their turbos were destroyed by running them lol :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Good job on confusing everyone again :laugh: to restrictor or not to restrictor a Precision turbo :thumbup:opcorn::laugh:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Stangy said:


> *Straight from horses mouth haha. Nik from cts Turbo! *If I am not mistaken he says he reccomends it for all t3/t4 turbos.


Hold a sec, that is misleading... CTS/Nick is *not *Precision Turbo. Entirely two different sources. I am yet to hear Precision themselves agree to restrictor usage. I spoke to them in August (2011) about one of my turbos that I sent in.

That being said despite Precision on multiple times telling me not to use a restrictor (unless you have what they determine "high oil pressure") I think we have proven that on Vrs if you are using the -4/-10AN combination you will run into issue on their JB turbos.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Hold a sec, that is misleading... CTS/Nick is *not *Precision Turbo. Entirely two different sources. I am yet to hear Precision themselves agree to restrictor usage. I spoke to them in August (2011) about one of my turbos that I sent in.
> 
> That being said despite Precision on multiple times telling me not to use a restrictor (unless you have what they determine "high oil pressure") I think we have proven that on Vrs if you are using the -4/-10AN combination you will run into issue on their JB turbos.


Im going to make this more confusing...i am running it on a 16vt . I suck at reading the titles haha


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Stangy said:


> Im going to make this more confusing...i am running it on a 16vt . I suck at reading the titles haha


What do you 16vt guys see for oil pressure at idle? 
What do you 16vt guys see for oil pressure at cruise?

Unless you are very confident in your return system, ie large drain (> -10 AN) on a VR you might be better suited to running a restrictor despite Precision's advice. I have had good results without a restrictor but given how many failures we have on the JB turbos it is probably the wise thing to do.


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## BklynVeeDub (Oct 7, 2005)

Not a VR owner but have had problems with my PTE BB5557 JB turbo. Here's a cool story:

1 year into the turbo with about 5K miles. Running with no restrictor -4an feed and -10an return. I have another car for daily driver. Ran the car at the track twice with a total of 5 runs at 30psi on race fuel. When driven off the track it sees about 20-24psi depending on my mood. Good chunk of the 5K mileage came from driving to North Carolina from NYC and back. 

About a month after my warranty expires, the car starts smoking. Checked the IC piping.. all were clean and dry. Checked the tailpipe and nothing but oil on the inside. Took off the vband on the downpipe and dry. I'm thinking at this point the oil is just spitting towards the back of the exhaust. 

Turbo is off the car and everything looks fine and dandy. Take off the back housing and voila.. bad seals and oil leaking from everywhere. Sent it back to Precision, told me there was damage internally and that this was not manufacturer defect. Pay to rebuild and change seals or upgrade to BB. 

I've read and heard personally from my shop that the journals have issues. Precision does clearly state not to use a restrictor. Stand by your product or dont sell it. Hopefully this ball bearing unit holds up.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

BklynVeeDub said:


> I've read and heard personally from my shop that the journals have issues. Precision does clearly state not to use a restrictor. Stand by your product or dont sell it. Hopefully this ball bearing unit holds up.


The BB will hold up as it is internally restricted (can't see that they will use a different oil seal on the BB product-maybe they do and I'm ignorant to it but my suspicion is otherwise). I've never had an issue with their BB turbos, the JB is another story. Not that the JB are "unreliable" but they are certainly not as bulletproof as the BB (oil issues on one JB but never on a BB). If they were not asking ~$800-1000 to upgrade each JB to BB spec I would go ahead an have the upgrade done on everything. For now it is more cost effective to run a larger drain and then a restrictor if oil is still present.


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## BklynVeeDub (Oct 7, 2005)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> The BB will hold up as it is internally restricted (can't see that they will use a different oil seal on the BB product-maybe they do and I'm ignorant to it but my suspicion is otherwise). I've never had an issue with their BB turbos, the JB is another story. Not that the JB are "unreliable" but they are certainly not as bulletproof as the BB (oil issues on one JB but never on a BB). If they were not asking ~$800-1000 to upgrade each JB to BB spec I would go ahead an have the upgrade done on everything. For now it is more cost effective to run a larger drain and then a restrictor if oil is still present.


When the idea of putting a restrictor on was bought up, the argument was that it would starve the turbo. Didnt they run the proper tests for oil pressure on the JB turbos? I wasnt very happy with the idea of having to up a lot of money to upgrade it to BB to avoid this problem again but I am happy with the new found spool up time. 

I just hope that Precision will come up with a fix for these issues.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

BklynVeeDub said:


> When the idea of putting a restrictor on was bought up, the argument was that it would starve the turbo. Didnt they run the proper tests for oil pressure on the JB turbos? I wasnt very happy with the idea of having to up a lot of money to upgrade it to BB to avoid this problem again but I am happy with the new found spool up time.
> 
> I just hope that Precision will come up with a fix for these issues.


Yep, their BB are great (I also agree with you on spool time). JB are kinda iffy for daily drivers if your configuration is not right. With respect to your question on starvation, all restrictors are not created equal. You can get blank restrictors of which you drill to your own spec or if you think that the pre-drilled restrictor is too restrictive then you can increase the bore.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

On my 16vt I see about 12 psi at idle, and 60psi or so at 6k rpm. That's using valvoline vr1 20w-50w on a tired motor. 

Id still be suspicious of a precision jb turbo, its not just vw's/vr's that are having issues, there was a pretty decently sized thread on dsm tuners as well.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Dave926 said:


> On my 16vt I see about 12 psi at idle, and 60psi or so at 6k rpm. That's using valvoline vr1 20w-50w on a tired motor.
> 
> Id still be suspicious of a precision jb turbo, its not just vw's/vr's that are having issues, there was a pretty decently sized thread on dsm tuners as well.


^^^ yup, i seen problems on multiple forums


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

Toasted a 6262 journal bearing turbo in 6 weeks with a restrictor. Precision says not to run a restrictor because the oil pressure in the VR6 isn't considered high.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

Ok now idk what to do with my journal bearing 6766 lol:laugh:


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

restrictor :thumbup:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

KubotaPowered said:


> Toasted a 6262 journal bearing turbo in 6 weeks with a restrictor. Precision says not to run a restrictor because the oil pressure in the VR6 isn't considered high.


I personally do not run a restrictor... unless it starts to seep oil and enlarging the drain does not remedy the problem. I also agree with what you stated about the Vr not being considered high pressure.


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

what type of oil pressures are you guys seeing at idle when warm?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

turbo mike said:


> what type of oil pressures are you guys seeing at idle when warm?


idle warm: 25-30 psi
cruise vacuum: 50-60 psi
cruise boost (hard): 75 psi

_These are pretty average values on most of my setups however I have a car that can run as much as +10 psi beyond the values just listed._


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

ok so which fitting should I use for my Precision JB 6766 turbo???










arnold at pagparts made me the (man-made) restrictor for a JB turbo :thumbup:


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

i use the top one and everything has been great from 0-12 000km


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

One Gray GLI said:


> -4 feed, -10 return, journal bearing billet 6262 on a 24v, no restrictor, no problems thus far..5-6k on this particular kit.


same setup on my 12v.


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> idle warm: 25-30 psi
> cruise vacuum: 50-60 psi
> cruise boost (hard): 75 psi
> 
> _These are pretty average values on most of my setups however I have a car that can run as much as +10 psi beyond the values just listed._


I'm seeing about 12psi at idle warm, and around 75 when driving. I think the bentley says oil pressure at idle should be around what I'm seeing. Anyone else?

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

turbo mike said:


> I'm seeing about 12psi at idle warm, and around 75 when driving. I think the bentley says oil pressure at idle should be around what I'm seeing. Anyone else?


12 is way below spec (and if accurate, your motor shouldnt be driven as is). smashed oil pan perhaps?


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

freshly built motor. used oil pump...might replace that and see whats up.


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

bentley states a fully warm motor:

@2000RPM, should see atleast 29psi

higher engine speeds should result in close to 101psi(max)


im seeing ~37psi at 2000rpm and a tad over 75psi at 6000rpm. anyone have more information about pressure at idle? bentley doesnt state anything from what i could find.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I know this is bringing back an old thread.... but I have recent actual experience that could help others. 

I remember reading this before I started building my VRT, and ultimately decided to go without a restrictor - I made my choice mainly from the advice I received from Kinetic. 6-7 months later.... thick smoke poured out the exhaust. Took everything apart and there's oil in the DP, intake, etc...... seal died. 

I've come to the conclusion that a 24v VRT running a JB needs a restrictor - OR - a shut off valve + gauge setup in-line to regulate correct pressure (which is what I run now). 

-4AN feed / -10AN drain (0.625 ID) 

Oil pressure (at 200F): 
@ idle - 12psi 
@ 2k RPM - 26psi 
@ 7k RPM - 84psi


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## MRosier (Sep 17, 2006)

Heres my experience...I have the PTE JB unit on my 12v that came with my kinetics kit. I forget the actual model #. Anyway, I bought the kit new, overboosted unknowingly due to precisions retarded wastegate having 3 vaccuum ports and no warning in the owners manual to cap off the extra boost signal port off...long story short melted 2 pistons sending piston and ring bits everywhere in the oil. Sent my 5k mile old turbo into precision for them to tell me it was not a manufacturer defect and the bearings and back housing were toast. 

Now I can sort of see where they were coming from with the whole "cut your oil filter open I bet youll find metal" (even though I never told them I melted pistons) Even still, the feed line is filtered oil correct?? Despite that I just wanted the turbo back so I Paid to have it rebuilt..meanwhile drove the car without the turbo kit and fresh internals with no smoking whatsoever. Reinstall the newly rebuilt turbo and drove to H2O with zero reported smoking. Fast forward to now and now I have really random smoking problems again yet no oil in the IC pipes or anything that could be seen with the downpipe off. 

I've been running the supplied restrictor from the kinetics kit since day one. -4an feed/-10an drain. No smoke ever on cold starts. Sometimes I get a cloud of smoke on start up when the engine is hot. Sometimes it randomly smokes at a warm idle for a few seconds then goes away. I never see any behind me while cruising but who knows what its doing. Don't even want to bother sending it in again for them to tell me its my fault and make me pay to rebuild their pos turbo for it to happen again. And to add, compression is on point, virtually no cyl leakage after performing a leakdown test..and the car is fast as **** so I do not have a worn motor issue here.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm still running my restrictor with no problems at all.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

my restrictor is a little bigger than the normal .065 restrictor (almost .080) and my JB billet precision is still good  :beer:


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