# How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States?



## A3JET (Jan 24, 2002)

in our crazy world of SUV's who here on the Tex' thinks that a another SUV will have what it takes to succeed in an overinflated market?


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## ASurroca (Sep 3, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

Definitely. This is the Land of SUVs. I can see the Toureg giving the Jetta and Passat a run for their money. Not that that's necessarily a good thing.
Although, if I'm going to see the world overrun by giant SUVs, they may as well be good-looking Volkswagen SUVs instead of fugly GM/Ford products.


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## damion16v (May 9, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (ASurroca)*

I think the Toureg is going put some competitive pressure on BMW's X-series SUVs. the X5 starts at 39k & has about the same options(although the adjustable ride height is cool). IF VWoA can give it a good enough push in the states, I think it will succeed. Prior to this, the bimmer was the only SUV I'd consider.


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## pdxtomct (Apr 4, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (damion16v)*

If I were VW, my biggest concern would be that the Touareg will simply cannabalize current sales of Jettas and Passats (the Wagon version of both, in particular). So they won't sell more cars, just more kinds of cars. The other problem is that a lot of people who drive Ford and Chevy SUVs are unlikely to consider a "Farn" SUV from VW. People who currently drive a European product are more likely to at least consider the Tourareg.


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## 90 GT-G60 (Jan 18, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (pdxtomct)*

quote:[HR][/HR]If I were VW, my biggest concern would be that the Touareg will simply cannabalize current sales of Jettas and Passats (the Wagon version of both, in particular). [HR][/HR]​I disagree, simply because of the T-reg's entry price. If the base price is 35k, it is already 10k more than the Passat base price, give or take.
That puts it out of the reach of a majority of Jetta and Passat owners.
I like it, I hope it does well. Will it, I am not sure. If it's main target buyers are the X-5 or ML customers, they may have problems selling them.
If VW targeted the Ford Explorer, Chevy Tahoe audience, I think they stand a better chance. But the lack of third row seating won't help.
Just MHO.
Cant wait till the first T-reg's come off lease. I may have found a replacement for my 90 Corrado


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## charlier (Mar 9, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (90 GT-G60)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I disagree, simply because of the T-reg's entry price. If the base price is 35k, it is already 10k more than the Passat base price, give or take.
That puts it out of the reach of a majority of Jetta and Passat owners.
If VW targeted the Ford Explorer, Chevy Tahoe audience, I think they stand a better chance. But the lack of third row seating won't help.[HR][/HR]​But just how many will actually sell for anything near $35K is the question.
Given the engine choices, their impact on the cost, the low number of $35K
models actually brought into the USA, I think VW may find it hard to compete (price wise) with the Explorer/Tahoe.


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## 90 GT-G60 (Jan 18, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (charlier)*

quote:[HR][/HR]But just how many will actually sell for anything near $35K is the question.
Given the engine choices, their impact on the cost, the low number of $35K
models actually brought into the USA, I think VW may find it hard to compete (price wise) with the Explorer/Tahoe.
[HR][/HR]​Agreed, Although a fully loaded Explorer is approaching the mid 30's (I believe)
VW's base price is at or around what the Expedition is selling for. However, Ford's volume building assures you that you should be able to see substantial discounting from the dealers. You wont see that from VW.
I would love to have diesel T-Reg for my daily driver. My commute is over 100 miles a day. I don't think I would need the 10 cyl TDI the V6 TDI would do me fine. 
Since VW already admitted that the less restrictive emission policies on trucks, favors them by allowing them to offer their TDI series engines. I say give us what you've got. 
The V10 TDI would be the best for towing, but how many SUV drivers actually haul things anyway. If the V6 TDI were offered and VW actually did some marketing, they could push the mileage card to all those people who want or already drive an SUV. That alone could help generate sales.


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## Passat2001_5lover (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

The main reason I voted YES is that VW can market this other places in the world, making the cost of production lower. However, the question is "success in USA". With the W8 currently leading the way, VW is building a more affluent clientele. Once the Phaeton shows up, the Toureg, and all of VW's other vehicles, will get a boost in quality perception. This will make others who have the money and want the quality think again about VW as an option--should they want a luxury sedan, a mini-van, or SUV. I believe they can win their niche market, which is my definition of "success."


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## Romany16 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

I'll answer yes; if I can get the v-10 TDi...


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## Phynix (Apr 27, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Romany16)*

I think it will do great with the 5 cylinder TDI motor. Power and mileage is someting you wont find in a domestic diesel truck. That is if the VW Truck shares similar mileage as it brother the 1.9 TDI. I would hope for 32mpg.


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## Phynix (Apr 27, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Phynix)*

The only other rig I would take... that will never be sold in the USA from what I hear.. if is the Toyota diesel MegaCruiser. You can buy a used one though. There are some importers that bring them in. I see them every so often from 65K to 90K. They will out do a Humvee hands down. But I like the thought of VW finally coming here with a truck and an SUV with a good sized TDI that should get good mileage and towing power.


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

Oh, just for chits and Giggles, I did a little research. The V10 TDI (5.0 liters) puts out more HP and Torque than all of the Big 3's (Ford GM Dodge) diesels. Thats not bad, outclassing GM's Duramax 2 years after its introduction. Anyone have a clue what the tow capacity will be?


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## OneSkinnyKId (Jul 2, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Clean97GTi)*

That air ride feature looks hot, old technology brought back is cool. I would take one of these things w/ the V8 or the disel over the X5 and ML55. this thing looks sick


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## Passat1.8TT (Feb 24, 2002)

My answer is yes; if I can get the v-10 TDi T-Rex that will be big bad meat eater




























.
Passat1.8TT
95 BMW 540 iA








98 VW Passat 1.8T (chipped 200hp)








01 BMW x5 3.0








01 BMW 525i Sport


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## caneaddict (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Passat1.8TT)*

I would say YES but with specific caveats. I am starting to read how incredible this car will be off road. However with everything VW is packing into this truck it will weigh almost 5000 pounds. THAT"S ALOT. I know a few of you think the air suspension is cool, but I hear it only adjusts about an inch? HUH? What's the point of that? Most americans who spend 40k on a foreign SUV don't take it off road. So if the performance is compromised for off road use then it could definately hurt sales. Also I would like to see the truck get the updated 330 hp V-8 that will make its way into the Phaeton and A8. I'm reading that instead it will get a 310 hp version of the V8. The V8 power matters to me because of the weight of the truck and because I (like most luxury SUV buyers) don't want diesel. Overall I'm giddy about this truck. I don't like driving BMW or Mercedes because the image it conveys is too showy (it's sends the message that I care about looking wealthy). However I love their german ride/performance. Finally a German with BMW/Mercedes performance and the conservative value image I like.


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## car_nut (Jul 13, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (caneaddict)*

I think alot of Volvo XC owners and RR owners, will consider the Touareg. The MB suv and the X5 are also known to be troublesome vehicles. The "new" Touareg owners will feel right at home with VW service. If the Touareg is marketed properly, no vague VW type ads, it will kill Volvo wagon sales. Where I live the Passat Varient is now replacing Volvo in garages. Also, owners can be smug about spending thousands less than the Porsche Cheyenne for almost the same car.


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## ralstm (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (90 GT-G60)*

If VW actually imports the various TDI engine, I think the new SUV will be a big success on that basis alone. Now that MB has given up on US diesel sales, VW may have the market cornered. If VW is smart, it will offer all the possible TDI options in the US. If they do that, I'd wager that over have of their Touareg sales in the US would be TDI's.


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## ASurroca (Sep 3, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (ralstm)*

It looks as though the Touareg is going to be aimed at a few different SUV markets. Wheras the X5 and ML-Class are aimed at the luxury end alone. If it ranges from $35,000 - $60,000 or so, and offers both offroad and luxury trims, and a 220 hp V6, a 310 hp V8, a 313 hp V10 TDI, and a 420 hp W12, well... that means there will be a lot of ways you can have your Touareg. A $35,000 V6 base model could compete with the regular/entry luxury SUVs like the Expedition, the Grand Cherokee, etc. The V10 TDI with offroad package (incl. lifted suspension) would probably be more in the range of Land Rovers. And the top level V8 and W12 powered Touaregs would compete with BMW and Mercedes.
Other manufacturers would have two or three (or a trillion in the case of Ford and Toyota :rolleyes







different SUVs, each aimed squarely at one market, each one tailored to that particular market. This means more cars, but each one with less options. I wonder if the one car, many options approach of the Touareg will be better or worse for Volkswagen?


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## Passat2001_5lover (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (ASurroca)*

ASurroca--excellent point. I suspect that if the Touareg keeps the same outside dimensions, it will not be as successful as those who have a different body size for their different marketing segments. 
I hope that the perception of the general public who buy SUV's (and haven't bought or even considered a VW) would be impressed enough with this one product's quality to consider buying it, and then to consider buying VW sedans. I wouldn't mind the US being the largest market for VW, just as long as the quality is top notch. Even though lots of contributors to web sites continue to have lots of dealer problems, the general public keep buying their products. I still strongly believe that the loudest complainers are on these sites (a tiny minority) but the average VW buyer (strong majority) is satisfied with their service (dumb, but happy







).


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## zippy_109 (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Passat2001_5lover)*

READ the TRex article here on Vortex:
Towing capacity = 7600lbs! Woo hoo!
Ground Clearance = Adjustable from 7.1" to 11.8" (Air suspension)
I'll ditch my Suburban AND my wifes GL for the TRex!!


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## tivs31 (Dec 28, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zippy_109)*

Realisticly I think that the toureg is the finest looking suv on the market, and compared to it's cousin at Porsche it looks 1,000 times better. If the performance lives up to the potential this car will decimate all. I really want to see the big turbo diesel come to the states as well, just to show america what europe has knwo for years. I really have not seen it in to many colors either but would like to some other options to see if it looks as good in other colors as is does in the blue.
Last thing the regular rims don't do anything to make the car look good. Replace them with the ones on the upper end models, and increase the size to 20" for the upper tier models ie v-10 diesel and W12


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## kullenberg (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (tivs31)*

The only problem with larger rims is getting good all season and winter rated tires for them, and they usually take ultra low profile tires, so there is very little sidewall to protect the expensive wheels.









[Modified by kullenberg, 2:41 PM 8-23-2002]


[Modified by kullenberg, 2:42 PM 8-23-2002]


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## SLC4EVER (Oct 7, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

Put that V10TD in a truck and I'm all over it...nice!


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## kullenberg (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (SLC4EVER)*

IMHO, the success of the Touareg is going to be touchy, and will be wholly dependant on aggresive pricing. Let me explain; 90% of the people who buy SUV's, do so based on image and style, the rest will be aware of technical content, and maybe half of them will understand the technical aspect. The problem here is that the Touareg looks like another mild mannered cross over, "wanna be" SUV, when in fact, under the skin it's quite the opposite. It argueably has one of the finest 4wd systems going. Range Rover and Jeep Grand Cherokee are in the same ball park. That's pretty heavy company, but it doesn't look the part, and it doesn't have a reputation, yet, to offset the style thing. I'm afraid after the initial sales surge of the VW enthusiasts, VW will have to do some aggressive selling to get these things out the door; which is not alltogether bad for us.


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## Pete Schekin (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (kullenberg)*

Pat, when we actually SEE the Touareg in person, you may no longer say that it "*... looks like another mild mannered cross over...*", or that " * it doesn't look the part*" based on it's mechanicals. Photos don't do it justice IMO. Pump up the suspension and I bet the thing looks EXTREME! 11.8" ground clearance will surely look like more than a "*"wanna be" SUV.*" .
I wonder how many Touaregs VW needs to sell in the US to be successful??
Pete












[Modified by Pete Schekin, 11:52 AM 9-1-2002]


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## kullenberg (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Pete Schekin)*

You are absolutely correct - of course I haven't seen it,in the flesh, and I must admit, it does grow on me, even in the photos. I'm looking forward to seeing what the actual pricing will be. Snow performance is crucial to me. I have no doubt that the Touareg will do fine in the snow. 11+ inches of ground clearance is right in there with the 4Runner and the Land Cruiser. As I recall, that's with the optional air susp. Without, I think it's about 9", still sufficient.


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## TRYNTRUEA2 (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (kullenberg)*









Touarag,Tour-rag doesnt have the presence that this has ,once GM gets the interiors right not many other SUVS will be as good


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## 90 GT-G60 (Jan 18, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TRYNTRUEA2)*

quote:[HR][/HR]








Touarag,Tour-rag doesnt have the presence that this has[HR][/HR]​I see that as a good thing.









quote:[HR][/HR] once GM gets the interiors right not many other SUVS will be as good[HR][/HR]​And how long will it take for that?
IMO, there is *NO* comparison between any GM SUV with the upcoming TReg!
I see more Escalades that are bought and than turned into a "BLING BLING' machines than anything else. 
When I see them, it actually start to chuckle.


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## Ereinion (Aug 14, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

I think that it will do well.But I think it would do better if it had a GOOD name.You just know people are gonna call it the Tour-Egg.


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## Pete Schekin (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Ereinion)*

*"a GOOD name"*?... is a matter of opinion. I believe it won't harm sales and that we'll get accustomed to it.
Remember when the audi allroad ad campaign was released? All desert travel and stuff? Not about the name, but it was really neat advertising! Well I bet the VW Touareg ad campaign in the US will be educational and show the actual _Touareg_ tribal people, and show their amazing adaptability to environments...
just like the VW TOUAREG! 
The uniqueness of the name may actually help it imo. Advertising will have people learning and wanting to pronounce it correctly. But regardless of how it's pronounced:
IT'S GONNA ROCK!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


[Modified by Pete Schekin, 7:00 AM 9-10-2002]


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## TDI_Dunc (Oct 16, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Pete Schekin)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I disagree, simply because of the T-reg's entry price. If the base price is 35k, it is already 10k more than the Passat base price, give or take.[HR][/HR]​I agree, I worry that VW is going to chase alot of it's loyal following away with the price of this and especially the Phaeton. I love it though, I just hope they keep the price within reach - especially with the V10 TDI.
Dunc


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## TDI_Dunc (Oct 16, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TRYNTRUEA2)*

quote:[HR][/HR]








Touarag,Tour-rag doesnt have the presence that this has ,once GM gets the interiors right not many other SUVS will be as good[HR][/HR]​This is a joke right? The Escalade has to be the worst looking beast of the bunch. Not to mention GM's _wonderful quality product_ ...


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## ASurroca (Sep 3, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TDI_Dunc)*

No, he's right. The Touareg won't have the same presence of the Escalade. If by _presence_, you mean _bling bling factor_


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## Point8T (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

I think it will give the X-series some tough competition and knock the MDX ute out of 2nd place. (Rover is in a different category). I love the styling in and out and the feature content is incredible. Go VW!


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Point8T)*

I voted a wishy washy "maybe" because I think its too much money for most Americans to lay down for a _VOLKSWAGEN_! I don't think VW has cleared that stigma fully just yet though they are on the way. Americans are ig'nant, I hate to say.


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## kullenberg (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vr6pilot)*

I don't have any problem with the concept, of an expensive VW; my concern is that it will be priced out of reach, altogether. A V10TDI version would be ideal, but I can't afford a Range Rover pricing. I think to say that Americans are" ignorant", in this regard, is a somewhat harsh indictment. VW has had a mixed history here in the US; at one point they had virtually disappeared from the market. This was not due to"ignorance", but due to eng. and marketing misteps. The current management seems to be turning this around. Today they make well engineered, well screwed together vehicles, that offer good value for the money. If there is room in the market for a vehicle like the Touareg remains to be seen. Pricing will be the key. There is an auful lot of competition in this price range. Having said all that. the Touareg is on my short list of replacements for my MB ML430. The good news, for me, is that I have time to wait and watch, as I don't have to replace the ML until 04.


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vr6pilot)*

Escalade? I just don't get the popularity of that thing. Looks awful to me, combined with GM quality.


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TRYNTRUEA2)*

That is the ugliest thing I have seen yet. The Escalade that is. The build quality of the golf is better. 
I will buy a Touareg. There is still a good chance that the V10TDI will make it over. $50K for that would be preffreable over the Disco (my decision before T_Reg.)with 12mpg.

[Modified by wobisobi, 8:00 AM 9-19-2002]


[Modified by wobisobi, 8:05 AM 9-19-2002]


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## mjrusso45 (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vr6pilot)*

I'm voting no simply becuase most people won't know how to properly pronounce or understand the name, and potential owners don't want to get in long conversations explaining the stupid name to their friends.


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## kailei70 (May 23, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (mjrusso45)*

Count me in when the TDI arrives!
Diesel til I die - biodiesel preferrably


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## cmoneyg60 (May 19, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vr6pilot)*

yeah those interiors on the escalade are the same as a 95' blazer with leather. except for the wood grain. hey this is something to think about if a hundai sata fe's keys can make it into a buyers hands anything can make it.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (cmoneyg60)*

The success of this vehicle will ultimately come down to two things:
1. Marketing
2. The Press
So far the press that got an advanced drive have written glowing reviews. So far so good...
Marketing wise I'm a little worried as some of the more recent marketing attempts have completely sucked (W8 Passat? Hello?)... I'll reserve judgement to see how they handle the New Beetle Convertible, but the Touareg worries me... I can see some esoteric print add with a Touareg hanging upside down in a garage to demonstrate its "amazing agility" or something silly. VW needs to really exploit their younger demographic that likes camping, hiking, snow skiing and snowboarding, wave runners, etc. Even if it shows 30 something people doing these things, it will spark people's younger side.
Anyway, my .02 cents.
-jamie


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## [email protected] (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vwvortex1)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The success of this vehicle will ultimately come down to two things:
1. Marketing
2. The Press
So far the press that got an advanced drive have written glowing reviews. So far so good...
Marketing wise I'm a little worried as some of the more recent marketing attempts have completely sucked (W8 Passat? Hello?)... I'll reserve judgement to see how they handle the New Beetle Convertible, but the Touareg worries me... I can see some esoteric print add with a Touareg hanging upside down in a garage to demonstrate its "amazing agility" or something silly. VW needs to really exploit their younger demographic that likes camping, hiking, snow skiing and snowboarding, wave runners, etc. Even if it shows 30 something people doing these things, it will spark people's younger side.
Anyway, my .02 cents.
-jamie[HR][/HR]​Yeah...and the name doesn't help, either.
Passat...Jetta...Golf...nobody (read: customers) knows nor cares what those names mean. But Touareg? Not only is it difficult to pronounce, but it requires a degree in anthropology to explain what a Touareg is.
Fortunately, the vehicle seems to be more than holding its own in the reviews I've read. Hopefully (for my sake) people won't even bother trying to say the name since they'll be so busy saying "I'LL TAKE IT."










[Modified by Justin @ 3 Rivers VW, 2:29 AM 9-21-2002]


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## ASurroca (Sep 3, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Justin @ 3 Rivers VW)*

Because Volkswagen is already touting the offroad truck capabilities of the Touareg to the press, I think there's a strong chance they are going to advertise it as an offroad vehicle great for weekend getaways, camping, holding all your sports equiptment, and whatnot.
If the elegant TV ad for the Phaeton in Europe is any indication of Volkswagen's upper-class advertising, then I think we can be assured there won't be any silly ads for the Touareg. Also, the press is already pronouncing it "tourig" and putting little blurbs about pronunciation so I don't think people are going to have a problem with the name. I think "tourig" sounds tough and terse, good for an offroad truck. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TDELTA (Apr 17, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

I feel the Touareg will be quite successful here in the States becuase of what it offers buyers (Value).
As for the Escalade, it's success is based on the Hip-Hop following. No disrespect to Hip-Hop or anyone that may like Hip-Hop (me), Rappers are making this SUV what it is and Cadillac do not what to recognize that. 

As "vwvortex1" pointed out, marketing plays a big part in the success of any vehicle. I feel VWoA should push this SUV any and eveway they can because of it's late entry. One good strat should be the Hip-Hop community because of its large fan base.

My two pennies.









[Modified by TDELTA, 10:11 AM 9-27-2002]


[Modified by TDELTA, 10:12 AM 9-27-2002]


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## nojevive (Mar 23, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TDELTA)*

I saw the touareg last week at the Paris Autoshow. Wow! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
It really is a nice car. It looks much better then on the pictures, and even a lot better then the porsche cayenne, which I find ugly. It gets a peppier engine though.
That said, I think the T-reg can be a success if pricing is right. I saw on volkswagen.de that base price for the V6 is 41,350 Euro and 68,900 Euro for the V10 Tdi (it's 97,000 Euro base price in the Netherlands, ugh). I guess that they could target a high 30K price for the V6. I don't think it will take a lot of passat sales away. You should buy this car when you need the clearance, towing capabs and the off-road capabs. Otherwise, you'd better buy an audi allrod for the money. It has similar packing volume, give or take.
Looking at several tests, the T-reg does pretty well, both on-road as wel as off road. It definitely is in the Landrover league for off road capabilities, and it seems to be very comfortable at high speeds on the freeway.
The air suspension is a really nice package to get and there are some other nice tricks they build into the car. I hope you americans like the cup-holders, otherwise you won't buy it anyway.


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## 24VGLi (May 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (nojevive)*

quote:[HR][/HR] I hope you americans like the cup-holders, otherwise you won't buy it anyway. 







[HR][/HR]​HaHaHa Some americans like myself don't even drink in our VW's. Hence we have no use for such things as cup holders


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## VowVee (Oct 18, 2002)

A couple of thoughts:
I used to hate 'Corporate Cousins'. The Escalade is a PRIME example of that. The Cayenne and Touareg are at least Third cousins and cannot remotely be compared. 
GM/Pontiac and Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge badge the SAME product under different names to make more buckage. How lazy is that? Well enough of this rant !!(expecting flames







) 
Yuppys buy SUVs with those price tags. The US has alot of yuppies!
You cannot touch an equivalent Tahoe, Escalade, Envoy for what you get with the VW.
VowVee


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## 24VGLi (May 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VowVee)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You cannot touch an equivalent Tahoe, Escalade, Envoy for what you get with the VW.
VowVee







[HR][/HR]​I dont think they make a GM that is even closesly equivalent to a VW. Just look at the build quality of their Corvette what a POS! Oh well to each his own.


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## G601990 (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (24VGLi)*

I think that it will be sucessful if they can sell them between $28k-30k, but from what I understand the plan is about $35k. If it were around $30k, VW could quite confidently attack the X5, M-Class, MDX, RX300, and QX4 based entirely on price. "Look at all you get from VW for thousands less!" But... we'll just have to wait and see.


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## mknight (Mar 2, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vwvortex1)*

Yes, I think the Touareg will be a success. Moreso than the Phaeton,
as far as units sold.
A couple of question while I'm here:
1) I need a snowplow. Can this be equiped with one? Most 
snowplows need to be mounted to a vehicle frame. As I understand
it this has uni-body constuction in front.
2) Any chance the AAC (pickup) will see the light of day
since the SUV's being released?
3) Same question for the Audi Steppenwolf?
--Mike


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## Pete Schekin (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (mknight)*

I remember recently reading somewhere that the VW boss indicated any pickup version is a NOGO. 
As for a plow on a Touareg... it could be done imo but the adjustable suspension may not accept a plow easily and a fixed suspension will only be with a V6 so a lighter-weight plow would be called for although for serious plowing that V10 TDI is what you'd want. Touareg is not a plow rig. Buy an American pickup with a plow. For light plowing get a snowblower.
For Steppenwolf info go to vortex sistersite AUDIWORLD.COM


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## mknight (Mar 2, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Pete Schekin)*

Just for giggles, I thought I'd mention that it'll probably take the
W12 engine to finally make Cadillac give up the bragging right they
have now on the Escalade with it's 345 HP engine. The phrase 
"most powerful SUV" will need to be replaced with "most powerful
domestic SUV" in their commercials.







I expect the Porche
version will get the new "most powerful SUV" title.
Pricewise, the V6 version is probably out of my price range. I'm 
building a new home this winter and it'll have an 800 ft driveway,
so my next vehicle will probably be a used plow truck or a tractor
of some sort.
--Mike


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## spongebob_squarepants (Jul 4, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (mknight)*

I think goofy name aside, VW will have a hard time selling T-regs. Initially some VW enthusiasts will jump on 'em, but after that, slow going. 
First, it's price puts it in the ballpark of brands with much more image value. SUVs in America are all about image anyway, and VW doesn't have the image of BMW, Lexus, M-B. 
These people with money to burn won't care if the BMW/Lexus/Benz/Land Rover/Escalade/Navagator/Yukon with 20s is more money, all they care about is image. VW is still an air cooled Beetle to them.
The TDI would hold the most interest for me personally, but I'd still never own one. It'd still be a hog as far as mileage is concerned compared to other thrifty TDIs in the line.


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## coolpower19 (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (spongebob_squarepants)*

But did BMW or MB start off with a high SUV image. Not exactly.


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (spongebob_squarepants)*

Once again...Primary target audience of this product is the VW Customer
that heretofore has had to leave the Brand for an SUV...


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## dennett (Jun 9, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vwguild)*

Guild, I really repect your opinion, but how many current VW customers buy $40k vehicles? I think if current rumors putting the V6 and V8 models basing at $35k and $45k, likely $40k and $50k typically equipped, this thing's going to be a flop. Like another poster said, when they first hit they'll be interesting and there will be VW enthusiasts to buy them, but will they still be selling 6 months later? The coming RX330 and Infiniti FX45, with its 340hp V8 and $38k base, have a much better chance and proven dealer network. I think the Touareg's only chance to make it big is with the 4.2L V8 and a $39k base will equipped, similar to features offered standard on the W8 Passat. I'll take that $39k Touareg


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## Candy White 1.ight (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (dennett)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I think the Touareg's only chance to make it big is with the 4.2L V8 and a $39k base will equipped, similar to features offered standard on the W8 Passat. I'll take that $39k Touareg














[HR][/HR]​That's the Touareg I will be buying


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## dennett (Jun 9, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Candy White 1.ight)*

Maybe VWGuild could get us a group buy price of $37k on that very model!!


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (dennett)*

What I mean is that as the VW enthusiast has matured, both chronologically 
and financially, they have been forced to leave the VW Brand for a more luxurious and powerful sedan or for an SUV of any type...The Phaeton & Touareg are being produced to fill this void...and this is the Corporate thinking; not my own...


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## 155VERT83 (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

It will sell fine. The problem will be customer service AFTER the sale from the Service Department. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## G601990 (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (155VERT83)*

OK so VW is worried that it's losing customers to luxury companies and SUVs. And though some of these people who are leaving for SUVs are going with Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Cadillac, etc, I bet that even more are going with Highlanders, Pilots, Explorers, Pathfinders, Envoys, CRVs, RAV4s, Escapes, etc. So instead of getting most of the people who want SUVs to stay, they only get the very affluent. Same goes for Phaeton. While I'm sure there are Passat and Jetta owners who make it big over night and get S-Classes, 7s, LSs, and Q45s; the majority that move up are going to be buying 3series, Acura CL and TL, G35s, ES300s, C-class, and A4, once again VW does'nt have anyhting to compete with those cars. I don't mind this extending of VWs model range, what I do mind is how they're going about it. They should first build and entry luxury car, something people will be able to except better than a $70k uber luxury jumbomobile. Then once people buy that car and realise that VW can make luxury cars, VW can expand on their luxury models without any sneering and mockery from the public. Its the exact thing Honda and Toyota did with Acura and Lexus and they brought the Germans to their knees.


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## Scott Koschwitz (Feb 26, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vwguild)*

I agree with vwguild, because I am the customer he describes. I have owned only VWs (with one recent, small exception), beginning with a 1979 Scirocco up to my 1999 Jetta TDI.
Now I find a need a solid tow vehicle to tow a race-prepared Miata (the one recent, small exception I mentioned). I love the EuroVan, but it doesn't have the power to safely tow the Miata and related gear. I don't want to buy a dedicated towing vehicle, so I need a dual-purpose vehicle -- something I can use to tow, but also drive to work on a daily basis. Without the Touareg, I would have to leave the VW brand, something I'm not entirely comfortable doing.
I would never before have dreamed of buying an SUV, but no other vehicle can provide the dual use I need -- unless they stuff that great V10 TDI and 4MOTION into the EuroVan (believe me, I don't expect it).
My only complaint about the Touareg is that VW will offer it, at least for the first few years, only with all the luxury crap that I don't want (and that will jack the price high, perhaps too high for me). I want a comfortable, affordable, working vehicle, not a Lincoln Navigator.
I echo the comments of somebody who started another thread here: keep the leather, power windows, automatic climate control, GPS and all the other power crap -- give me a V10 TDI, 4MOTION, 6-speed manual, cloth seats, and manual windows.


[Modified by Scott Koschwitz, 2:35 PM 10-30-2002]


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (G601990)*

SUV's of any consequence have pricing that starts in the 30K range. A nice Ford Explorer weighs in at 38K. There is nothing exclusive or premium about the Touareg's price range. If you want the really cool toys, you pay for them. The value of the yen and manufacturing costs for Japanese manufacturers had a great deal to do with their success. They could spend the extra time over-engineering their autos. Now the playing field is more even. The Touareg will do fine and I will enjoy driving mine.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (wobisobi)*

Being one of the few people around here that has driven the Touareg I think you will all be surprised how capable it is in all categories of on-road and off-road performance. I think Car & Driver will show this to be true very soon. The price for what you are getting and especially when taken in the context of how well the Touareg does everything is quite reasonable.

-jamie


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## mknight (Mar 2, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (wobisobi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]SUV's of any consequence have pricing that starts in the 30K range. A nice Ford Explorer weighs in at 38K. There is nothing exclusive or premium about the Touareg's price range. [HR][/HR]​The Ford Explorer in 4x4 dress starts out at $28,470 in XLS trim (V6 210HP) at full MSRP. Between options people usually add and the fact that dealers usually discount quite a bit with rebates and such, I'd figure around $26-28k out the door. On the other end the top-of-the-line Limited has an MSRP starting at $37,085 for the 4x4 V6 model. It looks to me like VW is only going after the high end; no VW SUV for those at the low end. And the high end is where SUV's make the most money.
--Mike


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (mknight)*

Thanks for strengthening my point. Ford is not in the same league as the Touareg yet a nicely equipped Touareg will be in the same price range as the nicely equipped explorer. A true value exists in all of the Touareg’s price range, even when you have a well equipped Touareg. It has the panache, styling, performance and abilities of a Range Rover and an X5 but for much less.
You do know that there is a difference in the build quality, styling, and overall value that leaves the explorer behind. The 4X4 system from ford is not nearly as sophisticated or able f 4Xmotion. There is also a great deal of difference between VW’s 6 speed auto and ford’s 5 speed. Did you know that ford and gm are so desperate that they are co-developing a 6 speed auto?


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## CarLuvrSD (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (90 GT-G60)*

quote:[HR][/HR]








Touarag,Tour-rag doesnt have the presence that this has 
I see that as a good thing.









once GM gets the interiors right not many other SUVS will be as good
And how long will it take for that?
IMO, there is *NO* comparison between any GM SUV with the upcoming TReg!
I see more Escalades that are bought and than turned into a "BLING BLING' machines than anything else. 
When I see them, it actually start to chuckle.[HR][/HR]​When I see them I wonder how anyone could be so dumb as to buy one. They are so ostentatious that the mere sight of one can make me nauseous.
I personally thought they were more attractive before they went to the robot wrestler look








The only other cars on the road that look worse are other GM models. Got to go, I think i;m going to spew. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## CarLuvrSD (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (kullenberg)*

How do you like those metal plates in the back of your ML 430? I've heard that they rattle and get in the way. Is this true? I have never riden in one, just seen pictures of them. Looks like a silly design solution.
If they bring the V 10 TDI I will definitely buy one and hold onto it for life. I have never owned anything "trucky", so this would be my first SUV.
I think the Touareg will be wildly sucesful! I have heard many people say that it is one of the best looking SUV's ever designed, and much more attractive than the Porsche-Hyundai Chili thingy.
I suspect that with the really powerful engines that many will see it as a more atractive version of a Porsche and consider it a bargain.


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## kullenberg (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (CarLuvrSD)*

re: metal (plastic actually) in back of ML430: I don't notice that they rattle, however you are right; they were a poor piece of design.


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (CarLuvrSD)*

I found this clip from another web site to be particularly interesting. Definitely another reason the Touareg will be successful.
‘Lutz, the charismatic product expert at General Motors, said Volkswagen did a particularly good job with its interior. 
"If you look at the interior of the Volkswagen and the Porsche and ask which is $60,000 and which is $100,000, you'd have them backwards," he said. "The Volkswagen has the best interior I've seen." ‘


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## 91STS-GLi (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

DO I think that people will accpet the Touareg in the U.S.? Of course, it's another SUV. 
BUT, here we are with VW trying to get into the same market as Mercedes, BMW, etc. There is one big difference...SERVICE! VW dealership service is just plain piss poor. Overpriced repairs, VERY rude service writers AND managers, technicians that do NOT know what they are doing in the way of diagnosis. 
The VW dealership service department system as a whole is NOT ready for "high-end" vehicles produced by VW. Take Lexus, I have several friends who own their product, and could not be happier with ALL of their service treatment from oil changes, to repairs (not like repairs happen often). But, I know dozens of new VW owners who absolutely HATE going to the dealer even for an oil change! I also know several people who are getting ready to sell their new(er) VWs because of their service complaints.
Do I like the Touareg, yes. Would I buy one, no. Honestly, I hate SUV's.


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## CarLuvrSD (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (91STS-GLi)*

I have a few coments to make about this last post. 
Firstly; VW is remodeling their showrooms to preapare for the release of the Phaeton. One of our local dealers has allready finished and it looks great! Very nice "euro modern" design, and it has a nice waiting room.
San Diego has the whole Lexus Vs. Volkswagen service equasion reversed. Metro VW/Audi has helpful friendly and knowlegeable tecnicians and service writers. Not much in the way of a waiting room though, but I try to make up for this by sitting in their new cars until they offer me a test drive








Kearny Mesa Lexus has a pretty fancy facility, but complete idiots for service writers, who seem to be chosen by there physical atributes rather than knowledge. After using them twice I vowed to never go back. And they charge $90 an hour. If I have to take the ES 300 to a dealer for service I try and wait until I have to go to Tucson which happens every month or two. There the dealer gives out Lexus service loaners, the technicians have vast mechanical aptitude and the hourly rate is $65 hour. Their parts prices are lower as well. That expensive Lexus dealer in San Diego uses Corollas and Hyundais for service loaners!








I think VW is working on improving their service departments, so I think it will be less of a factor than some people seem to think.


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## dennett (Jun 9, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (CarLuvrSD)*

Interesting about the poor service at Lexus dealer. I'm not to surprised however, Mercedes Benz of SD is owned by the same people, as is the Toyota and BMW dealer on that same street. We bought a new Mercedes at MBofSD and that service department is absolutely pathetic!! We have switched to Escondido Mercedes, if you're ever in that area check it out, it is top notch in every way!!!
Speaking of Metro however, I have nothing but bad things about that place. I have a friend who bought a new Audi TT 225Q there about 6months ago. I can't even talk to him about the place without him blowing a gasket telling me his horror stories. Plus their facility and parking are absolutely pathetic. The story is much the same at Mirramar VW/Audi, horrid parking! But a much better facility, however their $1-2k mark-ups on Passats and Eurovans is absolutely rediculous!! They come down to MSRP as a big favor to you!!!!








I would say that City VW and Drew are the best places to buy VWs, I haven't heard a lot about their service departments, but I've heard great things about sales. A friend bought a new 337 at City, MSRP no problemo, Metro and Mirrimar wanted thousands over!!
To make a short story real long, I'd have to agree that VW facilities and service in the San Diego area are a major step down from the competition in the over $30k price range.


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (CarLuvrSD)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Firstly; VW is remodeling their showrooms to preapare for the release of the Phaeton. One of our local dealers has allready finished and it looks great! Very nice "euro modern" design, and it has a nice waiting room.[HR][/HR]​Yea, yea, yea. I've been hearing that for a while. Seen the pictures. However, 1) there's no construction going on at any of the 4 VW dealers in the Boston area near me, and 2) what needs to be remodeled is not the facility, but the service staff.


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## jrugg (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (nedzel)*

It will and I will do what I can to get one, even if only a V6 TDI.
What will the aftermarket bring to this is my next question.
As far as dealers, I bought my Jetta with 65K. and have only brought it to the dealer when necessary. To the dealer in Mass. I bought it from and one in RI closer to work. They were helpful and did what they said they would. Nobody likes paying for repairs, so being rude isn't helpful. I get coupons and stuff from the dealers who really want the business.
I have seen posts here at @ Fred's complaining of dealers. Best advice is don't take your business there and let them know why. It's easier for those who live near multiple dealerships. VWoA doesn't seem to have a sterling reputation either. When I am ready to buy I will visit those dealers that have served me well and I will let them know.


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## CarLuvrSD (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (jrugg)*

I was under the impression that only the V 10 TDI was coming here sometime in 04. 
I could get just as excited about the V6 TDI because fuel economy is more important to me than acelleration. I got just as much enjoyment out of my 0-60 in 15 seconds Rabbit as I did in my Audi 200Tq. I just enjoyed diferent aspects. And I don't think I got where I was going much faster in the Audi either. 
I think the V6 TDi really would be capable of 30 mpg and I could really get into that!








By the time the V10 TDi does get here you will probably be able to buy a 2yr old petrol V6 for less than half the price. It would be cheaper to operate in the long run but wont set you back in the seat the same way.


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## BlueThunderVR6 (Nov 12, 2002)

*Bring it ON!*

definitely a good idea for the states, I do agree with those view on the drop in sales of the almighty jetta/passat line...but what do you think will happen when the phaeton is released here in the land we call america......VW has been relying on the jetta for so long, its a great car but you can only make the car so good.....im currently beginning to seek out an SUV for the wife.....ive been so satisfied with my experience with VW...its too bad my SUV purchase will have to wait!


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## vwnc (Nov 25, 2002)

I'm new to this forum, but as an avid car enthusiast in the auto industry, I'm very excited about the possibilities for the Touareg...especially the V10 TDI. No other SUV offers a comparable engine in this market. 
I personally have not purchased a VW product in several years. My wife and I both travel on the road extensively, and size needs have necessitated the purchase of other SUV's. We would love to have the space of the T-reg and 24 mpg.


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## Mouser (Aug 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vwnc)*

Here's hoping it's a big flop. Why? VW will have to pull out all the luxo-yuppie-crap that is driving the ridiculous SUV craze and offer it as a real lifestyle enthusiast vehicle. Pull the leather, pull the wood, pull the nav system, put in a durable sporty cloth interior (like the excellent seats in my 94 Miata) make this into a quality version of the Xterra/etc. and sell me one for $28-30k. I'd buy one then. Heck, I might buy two.
P.S. The Escalade is the third fugliest vehicle on the road today, trailing only the Aztek and Avalanche. Way to go GM, you won the top three!!!


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## Scott Koschwitz (Feb 26, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Mouser)*

Here's hoping it's a big flop. Why? VW will have to pull out all the luxo-yuppie-crap that is driving the ridiculous SUV craze and offer it as a real lifestyle enthusiast vehicle. Pull the leather, pull the wood, pull the nav system, put in a durable sporty cloth interior (like the excellent seats in my 94 Miata) make this into a quality version of the Xterra/etc. and sell me one for $28-30k. I'd buy one then.

I agree with you in that I would love for VW to get away from the luxury, fat-cat end of things, or at least offer a more basic version of the Touareg. The Touareg's off-road capability, build quality, styling, and engine options offered at a more reasonable price would blow away the Japanese and American competition.
There are three risks with VW's options and pricing strategy: 1) with the economy the way it is, I think the market for $50,000 SUVs will wane; 2) with pricing so close to that of the Porsche Cayenne, those with the means will spring the extra $10,000 or so to buy the Porsche badge; 3) by stuffing the Touareg full of all the luxury toys, it risks being perceived as VW's version of the Lincoln Navigator, despite the Touareg's quality and off-road capability.
What do you think when you see a Navigator? I think the driver is a poser, probably a pudgy accountant or lawyer, who's trying to impress us with his wealth and who will never take it off-road or do some real work with it for fear of scuffing his loafers.
The low average age of VW owners is the envy of many other car manufacturers. I think they risk that by pricing the Touareg so high and projecting the Touareg as a fat-cat poser vehicle, as opposed to a real lifestyle enthusiast vehicle.


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## BGK (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vr6pilot)*

The Touareg will succeed as long as VW is careful which dealers sell it. Those dealers that lack the proper facilities and trained personnel should not be allowed to sell it, or the Phaeton for that matter. 
My dealer is opening an all new state of the art VW designed store next month in the largest VW market in the US; the timing could not be more perfect.
The Car and Driver January 03 review of the Touareg will also help sales; I am sure VW will reprint the article for dealers to pass out to customers!


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## dcguy (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TRYNTRUEA2)*

I'd rather have this new Nissan Murano any day over the Touareg. The rest of VW's model line styling is great, but the new Touareg is totally boring when it comes to styling, and I predict it will NOT appeal to those in their late 20's and early 30's (me being one of those, and having owned two new Mk4 GTI's a few years ago). If VW was trying to come out with a vehicle that appealed to the 50+ oldies out there, then fine, they did it with the Touareg. I WISH the new Nissan was a VW!!!!!


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (dcguy)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I'd rather have this new Nissan Murano any day over the Touareg. The rest of VW's model line styling is great, but the new Touareg is totally boring when it comes to styling, and I predict it will NOT appeal to those in their late 20's and early 30's (me being one of those, and having owned two new Mk4 GTI's a few years ago). If VW was trying to come out with a vehicle that appealed to the 50+ oldies out there, then fine, they did it with the Touareg. I WISH the new Nissan was a VW!!!!!
[HR][/HR]​Murano will be a nice vehicle with a powerful Nissan engine but is not at all appealing to me. Based on other Nissan products, build quality, fit and finish, and attention to detail of the Touareg is four notches above anything Nissan markets in the US and two notches above Infinity. One look in the trunk of the Maxima and I was disappointed by how cheap the materials were and how poor the workmanship. The engine was powerful but looked like a case study on after thought and poor planning. Don't look beyond the exterior and all looks good but take a close look at all of the details and you will be disappointed by Nissan.


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## josh0855 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

I peronally think it will be a great sucess. Looking at compiton *short list* mdx,x5,ml,grand charokee personally for them money and being a fan of german autos' the Touareg at est/msrp.35k is a bargen and I think to soon be a market leader. Many say the market is on the way out for suv *something I do not argue* but when Honda introducted the oddisey and people were saying the days of mini vans were over, Honda made one of the best mini vans on the road today. When looking and reading about the Touareg I think to myself do we have another oddisey on our hands?


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## shaftinthehouse (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TDI_Dunc)*

No Doubt.... Cadillacs are ugly ass cars.


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## 24VGLi (May 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (shaftinthehouse)*

That new Nissan reminds me of a PT Cruiser. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## LenE (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (24VGLi)*

Yeah, from the back the Murano looks PT Cruiser-ish, but from the front, that upsweep for the C-Pillar just reminds me of the AMC Gremlin.








I think that this will fall in with the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix in the "Toy Sub-SUV" market segment that I'm not sure really exists.
-- Len


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (LenE)*

The Murano will have nothing in common with the Touareg, and will not likely be cross-shopped by the same people.
The Touareg is not being pitched to the 50-somthing crowd...it is being pitched to the affluent 30-50 crowd...and here it will be quite a success. Whereas the Murano is being pitched to the middle class and youth crowd, where it will likely do well (I have already seen 2 on the road).
The differences are extreme:
the Murano is very much a car, shaped into an SUV...like the CR-V, RX300, Matrix/Vibe, Forester, RAV4, and many many more. These are designed to be midsize station wagons for the road, with taller roofs to make the drivers feel important. They absolutely cannot function as an off-road vehicle, and anything more than a gravel road should be avoided at all costs. Also, it would be hard to impress the business partners, clients, and the valets at the swanky restaurants with the middle-grade plastic interior of these mini-car utes.
The Touareg on the other hand is an attempt to satisfy many roles in one vehicle, and stay true to its SUV moniker in offering as much versatility as possible. The interior is designed with an air of luxury and quality that, like virtually all of VW's products, could embarras a $70K Mercedes. The exterior is designed to feel car-like and VW-familiar, while still containing a hint of SUV-like aggressiveness in its clean flanks. And the hardware is designed to perform on-road very much like a BMW X5, or even a Passat, while off-road performing like a Hummer.
By all accounts so far, the Touareg has so embarrassed every other vehicle with which it was compared in its overall utility, ability, and luxury, that it has raised the bar int he SUV field. The 4wd system is one of only 3 available with the ability to lock the center and rear differentials, the air suspension system that creates over 11 inches of ground clearance which is more than full-size Ford and GM 4x4s can get to, and the suspension articulation is at the level of the most serious off-road hardware. Most reviewers have said it has kept up with everything on the market off-road, excelled only by the full-size Hummer (H1, not the ridiculous GM-trusk-in-disguise H2). Even the vaunted Range Rover and Land Cruiser were easily handled by the Touareg (and interestingly by Porsche's Cayenne, which apparently also maintains the excellent off-road capability of this vehicle frame).
The reviews of the vehicle have been unbelievable, and the on and off-road prowess will appeal to most (though many will never explore the off-road capabilities...anyone stuck in the snowstorms in the Northeast this past Christmas with their cars could tell you how much they would have appreciated 12" of ground clearance and 2 locking differentials!).
I once had a 1990 Mitsubishi Montero, and purchased it BECAUSE of the amazing off-road capabilities of the truck which few knew about (it too had locking rear diff, 2-speed transfer case with creeper gear and hill-descent control, and adjustable suspension tuning)...and after modifying the suspension to Rancho 5000 adjustables, detachable sway bars, a Warn front/rear detachable remote winch, 31" rims with Dick Cepek offroad tires, PIAA overhead lights, and a transmission cooler, I often trolled the off-road areaas of California pulling out Chevy and Ford full-size pickups on 37" rims with 3 foot lifts and V8s (buried up to their axles in the soft Mohave sand, or stuck in the deep mud on Mulholland Drive's dirt section after the brief California monsoons)...not to mention the hundreds of embarrassed Explorer, Blazer, Pathfinder, 4Runner, Trooper, and Rodeo drivers who thought they had a true off-road vehicle.
Believe me, the Touareg is an off-road rig that could embarrass 90% of the trucks out there, whether they are modified of not. Yet on road, it remains as smooth and pliable as an X5, with excellent handling and braking, while feeling as luxurious as an Enron boardroom inside.
This truck will sell.


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## DamnYankee (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

For what it's worth:
1) According to what I've heard regarding VW corporate strategy, the newer offerings (W8, Phaeton, and Touareg) are intended to keep VW's upwardly mobile customer base within the family. In other words, it has less to do with stealing sales from other brands and more to do with giving VW folks the option to buy a VW rather than have to jump ship to Mercedes, Lexus, etc. If this strategy holds any water (I think it does), competing with the likes of the Escalade will not be an issue.
2) January 2003 Car and Driver, 'The Bradsher Bunch': a comparo of 8 SUVs...the Touareg blows away the competition - "When the mud had been washed away and the highway detritus cleaned off its appealing flanks, it turned out to be the runaway winner." Insofar as cost is concerned, they added "...if the price can remain at its bargain-basement $46,500, we'll be content until somebody raises the bar even higher."
The luxury SUV market segment is one of the fastest growing and most profitable in the industry. This seems like a recipe for success.


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## 42green (Aug 4, 2001)

I think it will be a success. THe SUV craze is still going on and probably will continue for a while. I have been thinking a lot about what cars i'll have after i graduate and whatnot. my idea at the moment is keep my jetta for the summer and get a touareg for winter and towing. I'm hoping that vw will offer the v6 with the air suspension or the v5 or v6 TDI with air suspension. That is what i am looking for. If i can get a 30mpg diesel i would be very happy


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vr6pilot)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I voted a wishy washy "maybe" because I think its too much money for most Americans to lay down for a _VOLKSWAGEN_! I don't think VW has cleared that stigma fully just yet though they are on the way. Americans are ig'nant, I hate to say. [HR][/HR]​I agree...but that's their loss. I still think that buying most of the current VW products is a better return on value and performance than MOST brands that are offered here in the US market. VW still makes it affordable to attain "somewhat affordable" genuinely good german engineering, IMHO. They're at least upping the content for the value still compared to other european marks, although reliability is still not up to certain Japanese makes like Honda or Toyota (as well as Acura & Lexus) admittedly...but VWs aren't what they used to be 10 years ago either, thank gawd







!


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## anothercar (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (charlier)*

and exactly how many of us wanted a blazer or tahoe???????


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## anothercar (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Leweyb)*

...hey wait, i'm a yuppy trendo....oh what the f***


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## anothercar (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (24VGLi)*

isnt the cup holder where we place our new color cellphones??????????


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vr6pilot)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I voted a wishy washy "maybe" because I think its too much money for most Americans to lay down for a _VOLKSWAGEN_! I don't think VW has cleared that stigma fully just yet though they are on the way. Americans are ig'nant, I hate to say. [HR][/HR]​The same was said about the b5 passat being over $25K. I am not going to have a problem handing over the cash for a Touareg.


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## anothercar (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (91STS-GLi)*

I have to disagree with the service issues you've mentioned here. I have owned quite a mix of Bimmers, Infiniti's, Mercedes, Porsches, Lotus, Ferrari, and even an LP500 Lambo. The service I get at my VW dealership on our w8 is professional, high end, timely, and has always receieved a 10 out of 10 as feedback. My ONLY complaint is the lack of loaner cars. Perhaps with the advent of the 60k VDub this will change, but as I've posted b4, both of the VW dealers in my area are undergoing MASSIVE remodels of the showrooms, and service departments to raise the bar on their showrom and service look to contend with the M's, and the B's and so on....
But I'll let you know....


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## SOCAL XMER (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Leweyb)*

I was at the LA auto show and They say it is as good off road as the H2.







I really don't don't think so. There is no way it could be as good as an H2 off road.


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (SOCAL XMER)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I was at the LA auto show and They say it is as good off road as the H2.







I really don't don't think so. There is no way it could be as good as an H2 off road.[HR][/HR]​Have you done an ability comparison, which drives this opinion of yours?
Please post you findings from your research. Here are some things that I would like to know which would help me make a decision as to which is better off road.
1) Max ground clearance.
2) Max approach angle
3) Max departure angle
4) Max center ground clearance angles
5) Axle articulation
5) In-cab adjustable tire pressure
6) Locking differentials
7) Transfer case with high and low
8) Torque band (i.e. when is max torque reached and for how long is it sustained)
9) Visibility while off road (can you see where you are going without the hood, a, b or c pillars getting in the way?)
10) Max water fording depth without damaging the vehicle or getting water in the cab
11) Hill descent and ascent controls
12) Max grade percentage (45deg = 100% (i.e. rise = 1/run = 1))
13) Max cross grade performance (i.e. sideways on a hill)
14) THROTLE ACCURACY WHILE IN LOW RANGE
That is all I can think of for now. Please let me know what your research has shown regarding these elements to an off road vehicle.
Thanks,
Wobisobi


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (wobisobi)*

Socal xmer,
Just realize that the H2 is NOT a Hummer H1. The H2 is simply a GM pickup chassis, fortified and raised for good ground clearance. The Touareg should definately be in the same class of off-road capability as the H2. Ground clearance on the VW will be capable up to 13+ inches, and with the locking center and rear diffs, hill descent, H + L range, it should be like a tractor.
The Hummer "H1" is another story altogether...THAT is unbeatable off road except maybe a Mercedes Unimog!


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The service I get at my VW dealership on our w8 is professional, high end, timely, and has always receieved a 10 out of 10 as feedback. My ONLY complaint is the lack of loaner cars. [HR][/HR]​I wish I could say the same. I don't think the dealer EVER fixed anything the first time. It usually required multiple visits to diagnose, and then another visit to fix it because, of course, they didn't have the parts in stock.  Their usual response was "could not duplicate." The lack of loaner cars drives me bonkers and costs me a 1/2 day of work. Which is why I no longer have my car serviced at the dealer.


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## SOCAL XMER (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (nedzel)*

Maybe i'm wrong on this whole thing, I really like the Touareg and I would like to beleave it will do as well as an H2 off road for that would save me about 30k(Ilike the H2 as well)I think if it has a really good krawl ratio then maybe it will. I see it has good clearence and good approach and departure angles. Maybe VW can pull this off. I hpe so because I like VW's there great cars and I need an off roader to replace my Jeep.


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (SOCAL XMER)*

socal xmer, depending on what kind of Jeep you have, the Touareg should be able to keep up or surpass it. The only Jeep which is truly designed as a superior off-road vehicle is the Wrangler (or whatever name thay want to give that 50+ year old design these days). Because of the short wheelbase, great suspension articulation, and good power-to-weight ratio, as well as a solid transfer case, they are excellent off road. Even the Hummers, H2s, and Touaregs won't be able to follow a Jeep Wrangler through many off-road areas just due to their width or length.
However, if you want something that can ALSO carry cargo and several guests in comfort, while still maintaining excellent off-road prowess, the Wrangler falls off the list. The Cherokee classic is too small, so the Grand Cherokee would be the next step up...while the Toyota 4runner, Land Cruiser, Mitsubishi Montero, VW Touareg, Hummer H2, Land Rover Discovery, Range Rover, and Chevrolet Blazer all fit both roles fairly capably. All the other "SUV"s on the market cannot hold their own off road, and in fact many should not be driven on anything but a packed-dirt road. Without low ranges, locking diffs, skid plating, detachable sway bars, proper suspension articulation, proper tow hooks, or waterproofed engine seals and high intakes, such lookalikes as the MDX, Explorer, Rav4, Highlander, Pilot, Murano, RX300, CR-V, etc., these things are on-road vehicles only.
Out of the list of true off-roaders, the 4Runner and Blazer do not have locking diffs. The Land Cruiser, Mitsubishi Montero, VW Touareg, Hummer H2, and Range Rover are all excellent off-road vehicles with proper 4x4 credentials and equipment. So this would be the choice for the person looking for a real off-road SUV. All have a certain degree of panache, and will get some attention at the valet stand. So which ones will also be comfortable ON road? The Montero is tippy, slow to accelerate, and handles poorly, as well as bucking and hopping over expansion joints, with a primitive off-road suspension not well suited to on-road comfort. The H2 is a massive, unweildy beast nearly impossible to park, and hugely oversized for negotiating day-to-day traffic. That leaves a reasonable choice of the Land Cruiser, Touareg, and Range Rover. All are excellent off road vehicles, with great on-road manners, and upscale, luxurious interiors. Of course, the Land Cruiser starts at $60K and the Range Rover won't be had for under $75K. The Touareg will be fully equipped for under $50K, with a powerful engine, class-leading interior and luxury, unbelievable off-road capability, and excellent on road manners nearly as good as a sport sedan.
I think it should sell very well. I can't wait to try one out at the local dealer. I'll be keeping my W8 Variant, but I may try to talk my step-father into trading his MDX for the new Touareg!


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## SOCAL XMER (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

It seems the more I learn about the Touareg, I learn that VW is serious about the SUV market and gave it not only confort, but real off road ability as well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I used to have an 89 xJ (Cherokee) and it was pretty amazing off road, but getting old.
I think VW is pretty serious about making a capable off road vehicle.


[Modified by SOCAL XMER, 7:57 AM 1-15-2003]


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (90 GT-G60)*

quote:[HR][/HR]If I were VW, my biggest concern would be that the Touareg will simply cannabalize current sales of Jettas and Passats (the Wagon version of both, in particular). 
I disagree, simply because of the T-reg's entry price. If the base price is 35k, it is already 10k more than the Passat base price, give or take.
That puts it out of the reach of a majority of Jetta and Passat owners.
I like it, I hope it does well. Will it, I am not sure. If it's main target buyers are the X-5 or ML customers, they may have problems selling them.
If VW targeted the Ford Explorer, Chevy Tahoe audience, I think they stand a better chance. But the lack of third row seating won't help.
Just MHO.
Cant wait till the first T-reg's come off lease. I may have found a replacement for my 90 Corrado







[HR][/HR]​I agree 100% too expensive But I wouldn't mind a used one for towing but I'll probably just get an american diesel for this because of the price


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## occarguy (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Scott Koschwitz)*

<<I agree with you in that I would love for VW to get away from the luxury, fat-cat end of things, or at least offer a more basic version of the Touareg. The Touareg's off-road capability, build quality, styling, and engine options offered at a more reasonable price would blow away the Japanese and American competition.>>
I am in full agreement with you. It is obvious that both VW and Porsche were backed into a corner on this one-coming into the market so late with an SUV. VW is obviously still stuggling with the name. First it was going to be the Colorado. Then the Touareg (pronounced twah-reg), and most recently Touareg (pronounced Tour-egg). The big wigs at VW corporate's heads are still spinning over this one. 
I was at the LA auto show and was extremely unimpressed with VW's showcasing of this model. I am still scratching my head as to why i was able to finish my ice cream cone while sitting in the trunk of the Porsche Cayenne, but was not even allowed to open the trunk of the twah-reg/tour-egg/colorado. They pretty much had it taped off from public access-excuse was that there are only 4 in the US (this also leaves me scratching my head because from what I've read the Cayenne is a more limited shipment than the VW). They also had the VW set up on these aluminum rollers that i guess were supposed to resemble a hill of some sort? It made it really hard to see the lines of the vehicle.
I have no doubts, however, that the Touareg will be a competent vehicle-just read the most recent Car & Driver article-it looks good in pictures too. It beat out all the mid-range SUV's in terms of performance/Styling/etc. I am going to be in the SUV market very soon here-in fact it could be a Touareg-but I will likely buy the Honda Pilot or the Acura MDX because it offers a lower price tag and a few important options that VW and Porsche somehow overlooked. Third Row seating, Optional DVD entertainment system, and way better gas mileage. And I will save at least $3000 if not more (for the Pilot). VW is just not listening to its customers. The soccer moms of this world just need an SUV that is practical. VW has built its empire on building cars that the average joe blow could afford. In getting away from that, they are stepping out on a limb.


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## SOCAL XMER (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (occarguy)*

I think it has alot for the $$$$ and it will be a good seller in the states.


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (occarguy)*

OCCARGUY,
quote:[HR][/HR]VW is obviously still stuggling with the name. First it was going to be the Colorado. [HR][/HR]​The struggle is not VW's but the average 'Joe's' struggle with a German accent.
quote:[HR][/HR] ...it could be a Touareg-but I will likely buy the Honda Pilot or the Acura MDX because it offers a lower price tag and a few important options that VW and Porsche somehow overlooked. Third Row seating, Optional DVD entertainment system, and way better gas mileage. And I will save at least $3000 if not more (for the Pilot). ...[HR][/HR]​Enjoy your poorly disguised mini-van. They are both great cars but just not SUV enough for me. I would rather have a 6speed auto, 2-speed transfer case, locking differentials, off road ability ... over third row bench with nowhere to put your legs (or cargo for that matter). It's interesting that security system and remote entry are still optional (Not just optional but a dealer installed option.) on the pilot (costing over 25K) while this is standard on the lowly VW Golf. 
quote:[HR][/HR]...VW is just not listening to its customers. The soccer moms of this world just need an SUV that is practical. ...[HR][/HR]​They heard *me* loud and clear. Then again, I am not, nor will I ever be, a soccer parent.
By the way, what kind of autos do you sell?


[Modified by wobisobi, 1:36 PM 1-16-2003]


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (wobisobi)*

I would agree that VW is not really listening to the soccer moms...they appear to be listening to the upscale SUV buyers as well as the off-roaders...and seem to have developed a vehicle which is a nice blend of the two.
As for the name Colorado...they didn't turn it down; it was already purchased by Chevrolet for future use, and Chevy wouldn't release the name to VW. I wouldn't have minded a name more in line with other VW names (wind-based maybe), but I also don't have a problem with the name being "Touareg" pronounced however anyone would like it. Nobody seems to care that many of Lamborghini's names are odd (Muira, Countach, Murcielago, etc.).
Is it really that hard to learn a new word every now and again? Besides, now we all know about a small nomadic tribe from Northern Africa that we otherwise would know nothing about, thanks to VW!


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## occarguy (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (wobisobi)*

<<The struggle is not VW's but the average 'Joe's' struggle with a German accent.>>
Last I checked, Touareg was an African tribe-not a German Tribe. If we want to pronouce it corretly, maybe we should ask Kunta Kinte for the correct pronunciation. 
<<Enjoy your poorly disguised mini-van. They are both great cars but just not SUV enough for me. I would rather have a 6speed auto, 2-speed transfer case, locking differentials, off road ability ... over third row bench with nowhere to put your legs (or cargo for that matter). It's interesting that security system and remote entry are still optional (Not just optional but a dealer installed option.) on the pilot (costing over 25K) while this is standard on the lowly VW Golf.>>
You need to recheck your option sheet for the Pilot. The security system and the keyless remote entry are standard options on the EX model (but not the cheaper LX model).
If you must know, I sell VW's. I have a natural bias toward VW. I have no doubt that the Touareg is a superior vehicle to the Pilot and the MDX in terms of safety/off road ability/styling/handling/etc. The reality is that most SUV owners never take their SUV's off road-so why would they be willing to spend an extra $4,000 to jump into the Touareg-and forgo better gas mileage, a dvd entertainment system, and the extra three seats. The Touareg will appeal to VW die hards and those who need a true offroad vehicle-problem is that this only represents a very small percentage of SUV buyers. I coach soccer and have a big family that lives in a small radius-the no third seat is a deal killer for me.


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (occarguy)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Last I checked, Touareg was an African tribe-not a German Tribe. If we want to pronouce it corretly, maybe we should ask Kunta Kinte for the correct pronunciation. [HR][/HR]​I should have been clearer and I apologize so I will try again. Since you are a VW salesperson, you already know that the people in charge of VW are German. When a German company announces their new product to the world, the announcer is likely to have a German accent, which the 'average Joe' might not be able to understand completely. Yes indeed the Touareg people are African. I doubt that they call themselves by the name Touareg since that identifier was given to them by, I believe, the French.
"...It's interesting that security system and remote entry are still optional (Not just optional but a dealer installed option.) on the pilot (costing over 25K) ..." -wobisobi
quote:[HR][/HR]You need to recheck your option sheet for the Pilot. The security system and the keyless remote entry are standard options on the EX model (but not the cheaper LX model).[HR][/HR]​Notice in my statement about the Pilot not having remote and security that a trim level was not mentioned. I am sorry that you became confused when I identified the trim level by a price and did not identify the trim level by name. I did however state that ...'on the pilot (costing over 25K)'... they are optional port installed items. This is a true statement. On the LX, the base price is 26,900 and the options in question are indeed optional.
quote:[HR][/HR]I coach soccer and have a big family that lives in a small radius-the no third seat is a deal killer for me.
[HR][/HR]​Given your hauling requirements, the Pilot is a nice choice (8 passenger seating). I don't see that the MDX adds all that much beyond the Pilot.


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## mknight (Mar 2, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

quote:[HR][/HR]As for the name Colorado...they didn't turn it down; it was already purchased by Chevrolet for future use, and Chevy wouldn't release the name to VW. [HR][/HR]​Just an FYI, Chevy is using the 'Colorado' name on it's replacement for the S-10 pickup, which was announced at the Detroit NAIAS.


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## SOCAL XMER (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (mknight)*

I my self have given up on jeep and the;re infirror quality and am looking for other off roaders.
The H2 is very capable, but a little pricy and not that great on gas, so now that leaves the touareg as an option plus it has a much nicer intirror.


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## rkuehn (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (SOCAL XMER)*

Disclaimer: The following is *my opinion*!
With the Touareg, VW has walked away from its prime market. And didn't anyone but me notice the recently announced sales target? Its now 30,000 units. Used to be ~60,000 units. Yes the target has been cut *in half* because VW now realizes this vehicle was poorly conceived for the US market. Audi will now do its version (and fast) to make use of the excess production capacity.
I saw the Touareg in Paris (along with the Cayenne), and I will say it is *very* well executed. Its the way the vehicle was conceived that's way off base for the USA.
So where did VW go wrong? There was a VERY natural "upper-middle" market slot for a VW SUV that was slotted in between the Pilot/Highlander and MDX/RX/XC90 markets (parallel to where the Passat fits in-between the Accord/Camry and TL/ES/S60 markets): people that use their vehicles primarily on-road but want SUV virtues (all-weather, cargo, seating position), the upper-middle budget, and would perhaps like something European but don't need much flash. 
But with the Touareg, VW walked away from what would have been a big success. Why? Probably several reasons:
- Piech is an ego maniac
- Porsche would not have signed on for the joint venture if the VW was in the mid-market space. (However now Porsche is pissed because the Touareg is so well done, the sheet metal and interior of the VW have been better received.)
If you look at where Nissan tried to go with the Murano that's the best example of where VW should have gone with the Touareg (the Nissan's market target, not the styling).
The price point for the Touareg should have been $30k/$35k base/equipped for the V6, $35k/$40k for the V8. If one could have bought the VW V8 for the price of the MDX or RX, THAT would have been an excellent value offering, exactly where VW would slot in the USA. The super-macho off-road conquest package should have been an option, along with all the luxury nonsense.
There is probably a market for the Touareg for VW fans and/or those truly looking for a poor man's Range Rover who don't want to settle for the (soon-to-be-updated) Land Rover Discovery. But what could have been a 60,000+ seller is now reduced to a 30,000 target. I predict they'll slowly pile up on dealer lots as this market gets more and more competitive.
The abandoned VW SUV customers will probably end up with a mix of stripped XC90, FX35, MDX, RX and loaded-up Pilots & Highlanders. If Nissan had gotten the styling of the Murano correct it would have done well, but its already selling at $100 over invoice.
BTW I saw the FX45 and thought that's just what the Porsche should have looked like. Just another opinion.


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## occarguy (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (rkuehn)*

<<With the Touareg, VW has walked away from its prime market. And didn't anyone but me notice the recently announced sales target? Its now 30,000 units. Used to be ~60,000 units. Yes the target has been cut *in half* because VW now realizes this vehicle was poorly conceived for the US market. Audi will now do its version (and fast) to make use of the excess production capacity.>>
rkuehn, I agree with most of what you're saying. I must add, however, that there are a good number of consumers who want to buy German cars/European cars vs Japanese or American cars. I foresee the Touareg eating a large hole in BMW X5 sales. 
who knows, VW may also come up with another SUV that is in the price slot below the Touareg. There are many manufacuters that offer more than one SUV type vehicle (Ford Escape-Ford Explorer-Ford Expedition).


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## tbreth (Jan 21, 2003)

*Small SUV*

Well its actually clear that VW (and Audi) will build a small SUV. It will be based on the Golf - Platform (the new one, which comes first with the Touran), so it will certainly be smaller. Don't expect much more room than with a Jetta station wagon.
Tom
P.S. Some pictures where already published by some car magazines in Germany.
Looks a mix of a Touareg and a Polo (Don't know if you know a Polo, it's the smaller brother of a Golf)


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: Small SUV (tbreth)*

quote:[HR][/HR]If Nissan had gotten the styling of the Murano correct it would have done well, but its already selling at $100 over invoice.[HR][/HR]​I think that's going to be happening to a *lot* of manufacturers. There's so many SUVs out there, just as some people are starting to get turned off by SUVs. So I think there's going to be pricing pressure on a lot of them. The late-comers to the market who saw the huge margins on SUVs 4 or 5 years ago (when they started designing their entry) are going to be in for a rude surprise.


[Modified by nedzel, 10:05 AM 1-27-2003]


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## Dub Hed (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET) RANT*

Of course it will be a success, VWs sell themselves. Its the quality and engineering. 
That said, I wanna meet the marketing team that came up with the name. Were it legal, I would smash out their teeth with a ball-peen hammer. Maybe thats a little strong... but anyway, the name is horrible for an SUV. I would have thought the slavery rumors and the "Abandoned by God" moniker would have killed the Touareg name in the US for sure. Maybe VW's brilliant marketing team was just envious of the Pontiac Asstek's success. Bubba's gonna have a field day - can't you hear it now, Tow Rag? 
Considering the Touareg and their culture are in decline, I am at a loss as to what VW was thinking...didn't we give up naming cars after ethnic groups years ago? The PC thing doesn't bother me as much as VW's lazyness. Were there no winds left? What about deserts? They should have thrown us Vortexers a bone and let us name it by contest. Oh well, whats in a name...


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## kbear (Mar 9, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

I have had more enthusiasm from more serious buyers than when the Beetle came out! So yes , definitely.


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## ACD (Feb 20, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (kbear)*

I've seen two Touaregs in the flesh, both on my trip to Rome last week. They look fantastic. So much authority. It blows away the X5 and every other mid priced SUV. I also saw the new Cayenne Turbo in Florence. That's beautiful, but the Touareg is simply better designed inside and out.


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## Schnell16VGTI (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (ACD)*

If only Porsche would've spent the $ on a mid eng coupe in the boxer price range instead of an SUV


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## anothercar (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Schnell16VGTI)*

Why not buy a hardtop?


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## drbongo (Feb 10, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (ASurroca)*

Right now VW is running an incredibly low interest rate promotion on their passats and jettas but I am holding off for the Tourareg.

robert


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## blackmirrorVR6 (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (drbongo)*

I'm holding out for an X5 4.4. I like the Toureg, but there's something about the X5 that I love.


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## roccostud (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

its hard to say, there is alot of suvs for sale now days, hopfully when it arrives the economy is doing better, vw sure made a great suv and i would hope that it catches on, air adjustably suspention, locking diffs, big engine what more could you want.....oh yea the v10 diesel


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Pete Schekin)*

Pete,
Interesting. I loved the pictures (enough to put a deposit on one) but was dissappointed with the exterior when i saw in person. In person, it looked very bland to me; it did not look aggressive or fast (something that the X5 achieves when standing still). I love the design of the Passat. . .and the Touareg reminds me of the Passat. . .but I don;t want to be reminded of a Passat when I have to pay alot more for the Touareg. It's hard to explain. The one I saw was up off the ground so maybe I'll feel differently when i can touch it and drive it. I'm so conflicted about this. . .


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## touareger (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (bobalouie)*

bobalouie, my trooper buddy! You don't think of a 325i when you see the X5? Have you been IN an X5? Dang, it's small. But then, I'm 6'3" and think Caddy's are too small.
Relax, wait for it to come to a showroom near you...


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## car_nut (Jul 13, 2001)

*How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (ACD)*

You're right. Last month I saw 2 in San Francisco, they looked so much better than any photographs. One white, the other dark blue. I've never considered or wanted a suv before, but I'd consider the Touareg.


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## Scirocco (Dec 20, 2000)

*Here's what the Bling does for Caddy trucks! Das Bling Bling*

Grab and go caravan of 5 stolen Escalades. 
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2032248/index.html?subid=10101581


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (rkuehn)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Disclaimer: The following is *my opinion*!
With the Touareg, VW has walked away from its prime market.[HR][/HR]​Not sure where you've been for the past decade, but VW had always pushed their cars here in the US as rising premium products in each of their perspective segments. So much so that that VW products like the Passat had been used as the benchmark in the development of recent entries like the new Altima and other midsize sedans. In spite of that, they still have yet to meet VW/Audi's fit and finish, securing VW's position as still the industry standard.
quote:[HR][/HR]
Its the way the vehicle was conceived that's way off base for the USA.
So where did VW go wrong? There was a VERY natural "upper-middle" market slot for a VW SUV that was slotted in between the Pilot/Highlander and MDX/RX/XC90 markets (parallel to where the Passat fits in-between the Accord/Camry and TL/ES/S60 markets): people that use their vehicles primarily on-road but want SUV virtues (all-weather, cargo, seating position), the upper-middle budget, and would perhaps like something European but don't need much flash.
[HR][/HR]​Not sure where you get your automotive information, but I've never read of a perceived market between mid-size family sedans and mid-size near luxury sedans. Go check on Edmunds.com or any other auto site or periodical...I'd like to see if anywhere in the industry has a name for the segement you're attempting to refer to.
What you don't seem to comprehend about these various car segments, which include the likes of the Passat or Touareg, is that the Passat is directed at the mid-size family car segment, competing against cars like the Accord, Altima or the Camry...not mid-size luxury cars like TL, 3 series or S60. The Passat's fit and finish was so outstanding in its execution in comparison to the other popular cars in the segement (Accord/Camry), that it made the Passat seem to offer a more premium package for the same money. The Passat was the most "sports sedan" in the family car segment...at least until the newer Mazda6 or Altima came into the fray. It never intended to compete directly against the mid-size near luxury segment, but the Passat's appeal and success did come to mind for those looking in that said luxury segment. There is no segment in between the two classes...either it is family sedan or near luxury sedan, though granted some family car models are offered with so many options that they might as well look into the luxury sedan segment for the same money.
quote:[HR][/HR]
If you look at where Nissan tried to go with the Murano that's the best example of where VW should have gone with the Touareg (the Nissan's market target, not the styling).
The price point for the Touareg should have been $30k/$35k base/equipped for the V6, $35k/$40k for the V8. If one could have bought the VW V8 for the price of the MDX or RX, THAT would have been an excellent value offering, exactly where VW would slot in the USA. The super-macho off-road conquest package should have been an option, along with all the luxury nonsense.
[HR][/HR]​Again, you're deluded in your perception of Touareg's intended target market. First, Piech may or may not be an ego-maniac...he's an engineer, and comes from the family who owns Porsche...so, yeah, there may be some merit to your label of Piech, but this is a man that turned VW and related companies around in less than a decade. VW was dying a slow death in the late 80s, especially after the Audi unintended acceleration debacle on 20/20...but Piech turned everything around, made VW products a genuine quality product, making them no longer just the cheap utilitarian vehicles that US customers came to know in the 80s...VW products and ad campaigns had stopped being "the people's car" over a decade ago, and for some ungodly reason, you missed the boat on that factoid.
As for the Touareg, the base price for a 6 cylinder Touareg IS $30-35k point, while the 8 cylinder is $40-45k. That practically is WHAT price range you're saying Touaregs should be marketed at







. Sure offering a V8 Touareg for MDX prices would be a dream price here in the US, but that's not what the V8 Touareg is being marketed to. It's the mid-size luxury SUVs, that include the likes of the X5s and ML Benzs...and in that company, the Touareg has the fit and finish exceeding both of those offerings in its segment (mid size luxury SUVs, NOT mid-size family SUVs like the Pilot, Murano and Highlander...get it? TWO DIFFERENT SUV SEGMENTS).
If you knew anything about this auto segment, you'd know that the Murano is more of road car with no serious offroading pretention, targeting to be the sporty option in the mid-size family SUV segment. In spite of that, CAR & DRIVER still rated the Honda Pilot as a better pick over the more sporty Nissan Murano. The Touareg doesn't compete in this segment...at least not directly.
VW has targeted the Touareg (but we know how most Americans aren't cultured enough to give a damn how to properly pronounce a French word...twah-reg, not tour-egg...for an African tribe) for the mid-size luxury SUV market...that means not against the mundane family types like the Pilot or the Highlander, but rather the likes such as MLs, X5s, GX430s and XC90s.
Sure, the socker moms can make argument that there are not hide-away 3 row seat, grocery hooks and a dozen cupholders, which are a legitimate points for the those shopping for a mid-size family SUV, but not for those in the mid-size luxury SUV segment. You didn't hear general perceptions of MLs or X5s as being criticised for not having a 3-row seat, nor will those who would look into buying a Touareg. Luxury SUV buyers are less concerned about the more practical aspects of what SUVs can offer, like space or a 3rd row seat...the emphasis is more about hi-tech content, genuine off-road capability, fit/finish and luxurious appointments...things someone in the market for a family SUV is less concerned about. That's why we have the Honda Pilot and the like for those customers. People need to realize there are different criterias for those in the market for a midsize FAMILY SUV and a mid-size LUXURY SUV...and the differences can be real huge, pending on what you're looking for and what price range you're looking to spend.
If you're so caught up getting the most for your money, you sound like you're more of a FAMILY SUV candidate and not a LUXURY SUV. I've yet to see a 3rd row seat that will actually accommodate a full sized adult of any given length of travel...and many members on this forum had echoed this fact. If accommodations is really your criteria, you definitely shouldn't be looking into the luxury segment...or look into buying American, but I can guarantee you, for the same money, you'll not be able to find an American SUV with the Touareg's capabilities/performance, fit and finish, and quality of materials. Even an Aviator, with it's non-typical American interior design, costs several thousand more than a v8 Touareg.
Bottomline, the Touareg should sell just fine...but I suppose, the final verdict will be concluded in time. BUT, you could be correct in your perception in that maybe there are still a lot of American customers who still don't view VW as VW would like...as the up and coming premium product that's to challenge Mercedes one on one in the US market (hence the upcoming premium Phaeton and Touareg), while Audi takes on the likes of the BMW. Sure I still think VW has a long way before the general US market equates VWs with Mercedes Benz, but techinically by their product offerings, I still think VW has what it takes to be compared to Mercedes (especially since the quality build of the Benzs in general aren't what they used to be). Otherwise, there is always the deals to be had in a W8 Passat Wagon...!











[Modified by VWMarco, 8:14 PM 3-18-2003]


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (touareger)*

Hey Touareger!







Speaking of the Trooper, just shampooed the interior. . .looks like new. I love that truck (although it is SO underpowered and I just replaced the front axle). I know the X5 is small but to me it looks bigger than the Touareg. It's very wierd. And I can;t believe they put a CD based NAV system in the Touareg. How dumb. I recently sat in the Cayenne and for some reason the X5 still looks bigger. (I know the Touareg is bigger - can't explain it.) Maybe I need new contacts. Anyway, when I was looking at the Cayenne, a lady came over who owns an X5 and said "There no room in the X5 and I can't stand it any more. I'm trading it in for the Cayenne." Sigh. I did LOVE the Cayenne. Anyway, I will wait. But keep in mind that Canadian pricing for the X5 4.4i is on par with the loaded Touareg (I know it's different in the States) and the perception of is that BMW is several notches up than VW. But I will wait. I promise. . .I think. Hmmmmm


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (bobalouie)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Speaking of the Trooper, just shampooed the interior. . .looks like new. I love that truck (although it is SO underpowered and I just replaced the front axle)...But keep in mind that Canadian pricing for the X5 4.4i is on par with the loaded Touareg (I know it's different in the States) and the perception of is that BMW is several notches up than VW. But I will wait. I promise. . .I think. Hmmmmm







[HR][/HR]​Hey there fellow Canadian (originally from B.C. myself)...funny you should mention the Trooper. My family has had two Troopers, both very well loved, but both were totalled in black ice related auto collisions during Montana winters. The current rumor mill is that Isuzu may just abandon the US market all together in the near future due to shrinking market shares in the US market. Sounds like Isuzu needs Nissan's CEO, Carlos Ghosn, to turn Isuzu's fortunes (or lack of) around. I wish Isuzu came up with a better follow up to the Trooper than that rebadged GM clone...whatever happened to their whacky design thinkheads that came up with creative products like the Isuzu Vehicross...then again, maybe we shouldn't care what happened to them?








In the US, the cache perception of VW may also be a notch or so below BMW's, though VW would like to aspire to take VW head to head with Mercedes (after my most recent experience with my servicing at my dealership, VW has a long way to go to change that perception, but that's another story for later...), fit and finish in VW/Audo products have been at least as good as BMW's, if not far better. Don't get me wrong, I'm a former owner of five 5 series bimmers, and fit and finish was never their strong points, although the more recent ones have been pretty decent. Now that we own an '02 A4 and had compared it to my aunt's '02 530i (we're talking fit/finish/quality of materials...et al...), VW/Audi doesn't have anything to worry about in regards to it's design, fit and finish in comparison to BMW...especially with Bangle at the helm of BMW's design team







. That being said, my cousin who was a former Audi engineer, now BMW engineer, still states that BMW's technology is slightly better, but VW/Audi's packaging is superior. SO, until VW finally earns the perceived cache of a BMW, at least we can rest assured that as VW owners, we're getting more quality/tech for the dollar...at least I keep telling myself that after every lousy servicing experience I receive at my dealership







! Wonder how much things will change when the Phaeton and Touareg come aboard VW's product lineup...


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*

Thanks VW Marco. Izusu is basically dead up here. The Trooper is rebadged as the Ascender - basically a GM prodcut. Now, if you could buy a V8 Touareg with every conceivable option for Cdn. 75,600 or a BMW X5 4.4i with the same options (sans hight control) for about Cdn. 77,000, what would you do? When I pose this question to anyone up here, the 100% answer is the BMW. ("Why would you buy a VW when you can get a bmw at the same price) But I like the Touareg better! (and it is so much more off road capable and also unique, and more storage. . .blah blah blah. Now if VW priced the Touareg in Canada $10,000 less than the X5 (as I understand it is in the U.S.) I wouldn't even be thinking BMW!


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (bobalouie)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Now, if you could buy a V8 Touareg with every conceivable option for Cdn. 75,600 or a BMW X5 4.4i with the same options (sans hight control) for about Cdn. 77,000, what would you do? When I pose this question to anyone up here, the 100% answer is the BMW. ("Why would you buy a VW when you can get a bmw at the same price) But I like the Touareg better! (and it is so much more off road capable and also unique, and more storage. . .blah blah blah. Now if VW priced the Touareg in Canada $10,000 less than the X5 (as I understand it is in the U.S.) I wouldn't even be thinking BMW! [HR][/HR]​Comparing the BMW X5 4.4i at the prices you cited, why would anyone pay for an arguably dated BMW that has poorer fit and finish, less capability and $2k more than the VW? As I stated before, being a former BMW owner, I don't so much buy into the BMW cache, but for the mere fact that no other sports sedan handles or has the driving dynamics of BMW's sport sedans. But the X5 is a whole different deal and is not one BMW's vaunted sport sedans...and for the similar money, I'd buy a Touareg without a second thought. Touareg's V8 making 310 hp /410 newton meters of torque compared to BMW 8 cylinder making only 290 hp/324lbs of torque. Sure the more pretentious crowd may buy the BMW just for the name...and it's a good brand...although that perceived attitude in changing quickly with every Bangle derived design...but the real informed will see that the Touareg will not only surpass the X5 in performance, fit and finish and resale value (at least according to every auto mag out there). Personally, since I've already driven an X5, I will reserve my final judgement when I finally get to test drive a Touareg. I would never consider an X5 primarily because it cargo capacity isn't large enough to hold my two dogs...one is 130lbs and the other 30lbs...and though you may quote the X5 4.4i as being $77k canadian, I doubt very much that after I put in all the options I want, it'll be way over $77k I'm sure...it came to just a tad under $60k US when optioned one out to my liking. It's one of the misleading factoids I hate about buying a new BMW...sure you can get a 3 series for under $30k, but it will have absolutely nothing in it's interior to make you feel you're in something special (it is a luxury sports sedan after all)...well, at least until you hit that country B road and rowing through the manual gearbox...but since we're talking about the mid size luxury SUVs, I doubt very much the driving experience will be remotely close to the experience of driving a 3 series.
Also, the price of a loaded V8 Touareg will have air suspension as standard (at least the last report stated so), which is a $500 option on the BMW. Don't get me wrong, I do like the styling of the X5...but I'm dreading what Bangle will come up with for it's next interation...and my past positive dealership servicing experiences with BMW has far exceeded that of my experiences with servicing at my VW dealership. There are a few things that will hold me off getting a Touareg:
-PRICE: In the SF bay area, chances are that they're going to mark-up the pricing, and demand may the Touareg will make it difficult to haggle a decent deal.
-Dealership Service: If VW truly wants to compete against Mercedes head to head, they need to really improve dealership service and staffing.
-DISCOUNTING: The recent bill BUSH passed recently, allowing business owners like myself, to write off a portion (something like 25%, but I can't recall the specifics, so correct me if I'm wrong) off the purchase price of a new SUV (sorry, wagons don't apply) can be attractive, but I really need to look into the details about this tax discount offering.
SO, I bypass the Break My Wallet cache and vote for the VW offering if the pricing and packaging remains as reported. The first deliveries will start arriving in May & June in my area so we'll see. Again, I may consider a W8 or an Audi AllRoad, since neither are selling all that well...


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You didn't hear general perceptions of MLs or X5s as being criticised for not having a 3-row seat, nor will those who would look into buying a Touareg.[HR][/HR]​Actually, the ML does have an available third-row seat. You can check it out on the MB web site.


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*

so as not to bore others. . .you just have to take my word that in Canada, the BMWs are priced lower than in the U.S. (which is the reason they make Canadians sign agreements not to resell in the U.S. in the grey market) One of the few advantages up here I may add. Take it from me, that I can get the X5 4.4i fully loaded with adjustable ride hieght, park distance control, NAV system, etc. for about Cdn. $78K. The reality up here is that the Touareg will have difficulty competeing with the X5 if priced the same, at least initially. I appreciate that this is different in the U.S. Anyway, I take your points on the other matters, which I agree with. I drive the Cayenne tomorrow so we'll see. Bottom line for me will be whether or not I lust for the Touareg when I finally get to drive it in June or whenever.


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (nedzel)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Actually, the ML does have an available third-row seat. You can check it out on the MB web site.[HR][/HR]​Ya know I wondered about that regarding the ML...my family's ML didn't have a 3rd row seat, but I couldn't remember whether it was due to it not being offered the year we bought it or what...but now I do recall that option now being offered on the ML...







...the truth is though, I'd never consider getting an ML myself after realizing how poor the fit and finish was on our family's ML...and it always left me wanting more performance wise...I suppose I was more underwhelmed than anything in the ML. Now the E series is totally different package altogether...wouldn't mind the new E series wagon with 4matic, but that costs so much more than an 8 cylinder ML...


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (bobalouie)*

quote:[HR][/HR](which is the reason they make Canadians sign agreements not to resell in the U.S. in the grey market) One of the few advantages up here I may add. [HR][/HR]​Ya know, I do believe someone else had posted that tidbit about BMWs costing less than the American versions. Wonder what's so different about the Canadian Bimmers? Content variation maybe? Well, as the luxury mid sized SUV market get more saturated with new entries, not to mention new family mid size SUVs, it'll be real interesting who actually dominate the market share in today's economy. As for the X5 and the Touareg, even in canadian dollars, if the Touareg really tests out to be as good as the car mags have stated, I won't pay the extra $2k for the bimmer badge...then again, I'm less impressed by the Bimmer badge...and even more so if I were in the market of dropping the bucks for a Porsche Cayenne! I have to say though, I do love the latest Range Rover still...sigh, I just can't wait to test drive a Touareg and a Cayenne!


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*

I too would love an E-series wagon. Make mine with 4Matic and the 5.0 liter. But I'd have to rob a bank to pay for it


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (nedzel)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I too would love an E-series wagon. Make mine with 4Matic and the 5.0 liter. But I'd have to rob a bank to pay for it







[HR][/HR]​Hey, can we help it if we got expensive taste?!















A lot has been said about VWs latest naming convention, and the subject has been OLD & TIRED. You got all these people complaining that they can't pronounce the French word for this African people...BIG WOO! The name is going to get ghetto-ized to being called a "T-Reg" anyway...just like they do with the Escalade...or should I say "S'clade".
I think that the other poster is correct...it'll sell and make a splash with the midsize LUXURY SUV buyers. You'll have the old diehard VWers whining, "VW is too expensive...we can't afford it". Oh well, you can't afford a Benz either I suppose, which VW claims will be the intended market they're going after. Come on folks, VW has up it's content, fit/finish, quality and technology...do you really expect to get all that car for 80s VW prices? NOT! Get over it! The days of VW being the "people's car" have been pretty much over since the 90s. In spite of all the whining of rising prices, VW is still the least expensive German marque sold in the US in their overall product line. Not to mention that VW also plans on bringing other VW products that are on the cheaper end of their line of cars. Other quality cars like the said boring Hondas and Toyotas aren't exactly cheap either...and they're the direct competitors to much of VW's products.


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## car_nut (Jul 13, 2001)

QUOTE - The days of VW being the "people's car" have been pretty much over 
Aren't wealthy folks people too. They just changed camps.


[Modified by car_nut, 6:12 PM 4-2-2003]


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## JPinTO (Apr 7, 2003)

*X5*

Just a quick note about the X5 4.4L.
BMW knows it's going to be behind with Cayennes, Touaregs and FX45's around. The 2004 X5 will get the Valvetronic 4.4L V8 out of the new E65 745i. 
Power will come in at an improved 333hp, 330 ft lbs combined with improved fuel economy.


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: X5 (JPinTO)*

ooooooooo


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## [email protected] (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

Five of my last six new cars were Audi/VWs, so I'm a big cheerleader for the company, but I think the Toureg misses the mark -- not distinctive enough and too expensive for the US market. Very few SUVs (or SAVs) are sold in the US based on performance and capability. Some of the new lux-cute-utes coming out of Japan are stunning (the Infiniti/Nissans for example). They're real head turners. The Toureg, on the other hand, is rather nondescript. At least there's the possibility of a TDI http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
But I disagree with the whole W8/Phaeton/Toureg direction the company is taking. Having owned several new VWs and Audis (and BMWs), I'd never pay the same money for a VW when I could put it into an Audi or BWM -- the build quality is night and day different. Anyone who pays $38,000 for a Passat is


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? ([email protected])*

That is a pretty spunkey comment for someone born in 1903


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (wobisobi)*

Actually, the real







is the person who doesn't look at, drive, feel, and see a car before deciding whether or not it is worth the money...or the person who decides a badge alone dictates how much money to spend on the car.
The "night and day" build quality I notice is that my Passat's interior build quality - with the highest grade plastics in the industry, perfectly matched grains and textures, damped switchgear, and negligible panel gaps - is better than that of BMW's 5-series, with mismatched grains, cheap plastic underdash panels, undamped lids, and noticeable cheap materials used in the lower consoles...not to mention some squeaks and broken parts in the first 3 months of ownership. I can also compare my Passat's quality to my mother's CLK430 Cabriolet (significantly pricier than my W8, and with a more 'prestigious' badge)...which has a cheap, lightweight, single latched glovebox, plasticky unmatched fuse cover, cheap-looking cupholder mechanism, and whose ashtray lid and double center console lid latch have both broken in less than 1 year. So "night and day" differences? Yeah, I agree - VW's materials and build quality are far superior to even many of its higher priced German competition (don't even let me bring up the cheap, plasticky, rattling crap that is a Porsche interior...and yes, we have those in the family too to compare). The new BMW 7-series interior looks sparse and dead, and the "drawers" in the center console have been breaking already in many cars.
As for whether or not to buy a "prestigious badged" car over a VW for the money...consider these: Jaguars and Aston Martins are far more expensive than VW, and yet they are using switchgear from Tauruses and Mondeos (Fords). How about super luxury brands like Bentley? I guess they have a prestige badge...even though they will be powered by VW...does that make them worth it or not? Back in 1989, who thought it would be a good idea to pay $50,000 for a Toyota? I'll tell you - not one industry person, and not one magazine tester, and before the car debuted, not one person. Yet when the car came out, it outsold Mercedes and BMW luxury cars in it's first year (Lexus LS) and set itself up as the target for many other manufacturers to try to hit (people actually tried them, drove them, and sat in them before holding judgement that a Toyota could never be worth $50K).
To say the Touareg or Phaeton will not be worth the money without having seen one is a pretty ignorant call. To say that the quality difference between VW and Audi or BMW is "night and day" is also ignorant and generalized. The quality of VW interiors has been praised by every single manufacturer in the business, and copied by most. Every magazine reviewer has noted that VW interiors are the best in the business, and far exceed the quality of most anything in their class. and the quality of the higher-priced VW models is higher than the cheaper models...Passat interiors are noticeably nicer than Golf or Jetta interiors (already excellent in their own right). The quality will likely be another step above for the Touareg and Phaeton.
In fact, a man by the name of Bob Lutz (responsible first for reviving Chrysler in the 1990s and single-handedly revamping their entire model lineup, and currently responsible for doing the same for GM...widely considered to be one of the brightest and most capable auto industry leaders ever) commented on VW interiors several times...bringing up the fact that Passats had better interiors than Mercedes Benzes (something that really irritated MB, enough to completely redesign the interior of their E-class to something that finally feels like it is worth the money!). When Mr. Lutz had a chance to see the Touareg, and also the Porsche Cayenne at the Detroit Auto Show...his comment was that if you were to strip all the badges off and ask which interior belongs to the $40K Volkswagen and which to the $75K Porsche...not one person would get it right. The Touareg's interior looked like it should be in the $75K car.
But I guess going by the "badge" test, one would be crazy to buy the Touareg for $40K ($38k and over for a VW is







) with the $75K interior...but should feel quite satisfied to have paid $75K for the privelege of having a Porsche badge on the front despite the $30K interior.
I guess my definition of







is different...I judge a vehicle based on how it looks, feels, and drives, and by the quality of the materials and comfort of the interior...by the action and feel of the switchgear and the ergonomics of the design. Screwy to me is to buy a car which feels cheap, whose interior is low-rent and plasticky, with lightweight doors and tinny fenders, which is uncomfortable...but looks good to other people on the outside (read: Nissan). A swoopy design with no substance inside. Why would I want to prioritize satisfying other people before myself? Why should an interior not be more important than an exterior? And why should the prestige of a badge on the front of a car determine how much I pay for it despite how cheaply it is made?
I agree that Audi interiors are excellent...they should be, since they share some 30-50% of their parts with VW. Are they better than VW? It depends on the model...an A4 interior is nicer than that of a Jetta, and an A6 is nicer than that of a Passat. Shouldn't it be? Those Audi models are more expensive than those VW models. But the Touareg interior looks as if it will be as nice as or better than that of the A6. and the Phaeton interior by most accounts of those who have tested it is much nicer than any current VW or Audi.
I for one will determine if the Touareg is worth it's price when I can inspect it, sit in it, and drive it. I'll hold the same judgement for the Phaeton. I will have high expectations because of how excellent my other VW products have been. But I will never judge the car based on the badge on the grille.


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

I respect your approach. But time will tell. I personally think that the VW brand is so strong equated with economy cars, that it will take years to move the brand upwards, and it is not clear to me that it can be done without a new brand, ala Lexus, Infinity, Acura (i.e., VW shoulda used Audi). Our national paper this morning had a review of the W8 Passat and the writer voiced the opinion that VW will have an uphill battle selling it here (Canada) because of the price. Not becuase the Passat isn't a great car, but because people (here) will have trouble spending that much on a VW. Time will tell.


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (bobalouie)*

I agree with respect to the W8...too much a niche vehicle anyway - even the established manufacturers who make midsize V8 sedans such as Mercedes Benz and BMW do not sell nearly as many of the V8 models as they do the 6-cylinder versions. The W8 was destined to be a low volume approach from the beginning, and to enter such a limited potential market with a familiar midprice family sedan suddenly thrust into a near-$40 luxury category was probably not the best way to approach entering this market.
I am just of the thinking that the Phaeton and Touareg are entering the market not based on any prior VW product, and therefore there is not an automatic expectation of price based on a current model which there was with the Passat W8. If the product is good enough, and looks good to boot, along with significant enhancements to the dealer network already in place...I think those willing to shop in the $40-80,000 market will be willing to buy one of these two. Already, the Passat is admired by many who own cars much more expensive...but they would stop short of purchasing a W8 because they are too familiar with the fact that it is based on the more plebian Passats. The Touareg and Phaeton have no such basis, and hopefully will establish their own identities by being compared only to the other vehicles in their class with which they compete. And this is where they shine the brightest, as far as feature content, design, and price.


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

I guess I am an ideal barometer. I have a deposit on a Touareg, and during the wait I have been testing everything else. Fell in love with the X5 in the process. So, it will either be the 4.4i X5 or the V8 Touareg. We'll see what my head and heart tell me to do when I finally get to drive the Touareg. Wish they'd hurry up already










[Modified by bobalouie, 7:20 PM 4-11-2003]


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

I agree with much of your perspective, regarding the Touareg's perspective market. Really, it's all speculation at this point until the Touareg comes to market, but if the Porsche Cayenne's current sales pattern is any indicator (the Cayenne supposedly already sold this year and next year's allotment here in the US), then the Touareg will be a shoe-in success.
I've read how many feel the perception that many customers can't see themselves dropping that kind of money for a VW, which I think is very narrow minded and outdated thinking. If people are willing to drop the kind of money they spend on American and Korean car makes, then I don't see how it is such a far cry to spend a decent amount on a well made/engineered car like a VW. Bottomline, until a customer drives a new VW product for a test drive, they'll remain ignorant...and that's their loss. Unfortunately, that will be VW's loss since VW's marketing spin masters were unable to convince those skeptical customers...and frankly, I don't think they're worth the effort IMHO...if they want to buy an inferior product thinking they're one up on a VW, more power to them. Anyone thinking that the VW Bug is the same VW product quality as today's VW New Beatle, then they deserve what they wind up buying.
The automotive industry has tons of products out in the market and if one isn't willing to do the homework to find out what is good product and what is recommended by various automotive resources, then who really cares. These very same people are going to be the people who won't care if their cars is washed or if they're seen in what others may view as cheap kind...that's their choice.


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## PhaetonOwner (Dec 29, 2002)

*2 types 2 heads !!*

Well, there are 2 types of people when we talk about car buyers (especially the luxury cars):
1) People see the car from “how they will look”
This group looks for the car in just one way, which is “ how it will make me look”. For them a bad car like x5 (my brother had one and am telling you its good for nothing!!) will be so great simply because it have BMW badge on it. And although the touareg is much better performance, quality and it cost less that the x5 they will see it as big fat ugly car because it simply have VW badge.
I had a big lool on those people when they rushed and bought a touareg because vice president in our country own one and he use it in his hunting trips and when he go and watch the camel racing ( which are live on the T.V)!!
Simply for those people the car price = the badge price + famous people riding it.
2) People see the car from “how they feel”
Most of the VW buyers are form this type. The VW buyers look at the car first from its performance , quality, is the car comfortable? Does it do the job? And after that they look at the price and compare it with what they get and if they felt good they buy the car. That what make the loyalty for the badge. 
For those people the car price = performance + quality + comfort + … Etc.
In my country (middle east – UAE) the car is already making a big seals. Many people have ordered the car. And I almost see touareg every day.
Sorry for my bad English !! 



[Modified by PhaetonOwner, 8:40 PM 4-15-2003]


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (PhaetonOwner)*

PhaetonOwner,
Thank you for your comments...I agree completely. From what I have heard, the Touareg is selling very well in Europe, and the countries that do not yet have it are anxiously waiting for debut. I think the size, luxuriousness, polish, and stately European-ness of the Touareg will make it an excellent seller in the US, just as the re-designed Passat in 1997 was able to increase Passat sales 1000% over the previous model, and take a sizeable chunk out of the midsize family car market (for the same reasons...the Passat seemed like a bank-vault-solid, jewel-cut, mini-Mercedes or BMW, and people flocked to it over cheaper looking, plasticky, generic transports...so much so that the category leaders like Honda and Toyota took notice, and actually studied and copied the Passat for their redesigns). The Touareg is going to create the same problem for other manufacturers...it will be excellent on road, much better off-road, and awesomely luxurious and feature-laden, not to mention appearing jewel-like, classy, and substantial on the road. You will likely see some manufacturers pulling some redesigns after tearing apart a Touareg to see how it was done, and again copying what they readily admit is an unbelievable piece of design and engineering (GM's Bob Lutz, Ford's president, Honda's Accord design team, and Nissan lead-man Carlos Ghosn have all already stated the dominance of VW's engineers and designers in changing the industry and leading the revolution to better cars...all went so far as to purchase VW vehicles to tear apart and get to know how they were built and what is behind their designs...Ford went so far as to simply BUY VW's chief designer to come work for them!).
By the way, PhaetonOwner, how do you like your Phaeton? Which engine do you have? How is the room for 4 people, and luggage space? I assume the high-speed cruising is wonderful in that car...how about handling and maneuvering? Just curious to hear a review from an owner of one!


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## PhaetonOwner (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (zackiedawg)*

zackiedawg
About the phaeton…
I don’t like the phaeton!! Am crazy about it!!! 
Nothing can describe my feelings about this car.... I preferred it on an s600 and a 7 series an after spending wail with it now am sure now that I made the right decision.
Every touch of a button in it makes you feel like you are the prince of the world. And that 420 HP demon just didn’t let me down even once. The comfort in it, which I didn’t experience some thing like it in any other car in my life, make me feel like if I was in home. Short ride long ride I don’t care any more because I really know that I have a car and I mean a real one!!
For the seats I took the 4 seats … although there is a 5 passenger seats available for the car I took the 4 seats because it make the care feel more conformable and because am a single man and I often don’t take any body with me .. Actually the only time some body sat on the rear seats was when I took my father in a test ride and he really loved it. It can fit any man size easily and with no problems. For your information the only version available (which you see its picture all over the place) is the small base version. The long base version will be introduced next year along with the 8v engine. 
It can beet both the s500 and the 745Li with no problem. For the s600 and the 760Li, they can beet me in the 0-100 not by a big difference (half a car in worst times). But they no match for me after that … because when they are limited with 250 km/hr I can go for 297 km / hr and the engine make me go there easily … what make me own the fastest saloon luxury car ( at least in my country).
In my country you can see s class and 7 serious in the streets more than taxies (thanks for the oil ) but seen a Phaeton really turn the people’s head. They often ask me about the car and its name and from where I got it some times they really ask me to set on it and get a picture with it. Its kind of strange car of course for only 5 cars in the country and 7 cars in all the middle east ( because it hadn’t been released here yet ) it is really a special car.
Any way … sorry for writing much and sorry for my bad English !! 



[Modified by PhaetonOwner, 9:23 PM 4-15-2003]


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (PhaetonOwner)*

I understand what you mean about the BMW 7-series and S class MBs...my town here in Florida, and pretty much all of south Florida, has ridiculous amounts of money (many of your rich are from oil...ours are mostly business owners, famous people, and bankers)...so we have too many 7s and S's on the road, as well as all of the exotics like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, etc. Something like the Phaeton will really stand out. I find that even though my W8 is less expensive, nobody else here has one in wagon form - so even those people driving a car that costs 2 or 3 times as much as mine will still ask questions or stare at it.
Glad to hear you like it. I would consider it to be one of the few cars to look at when I am ready to replace my current car.
I hope to travel to U.A.E. sometime soon...I have been trying to see as much of the World as possible, and have so far never made it to Asia or the Middle East. I am completely awestruck and amazed at the Al Burj Al Arab hotel in Dubai:








I have never seen a building so beautiful in my life, and if I do get over there, that is where I would like to stay. I am a bit of an architecture buff, and that has to be one of the most amazing structures built in the past 20 years, not to mention the features and technology (highest unsupported inner atrium space, built in the middle of a bay, fiber-optic lighting throughout the skin of the building to change its color throughout the night, etc.). It is so appropriately designed into its surroundings, like a giant sail on the water, while retaining classic arabian architectural highlights. Amazing!
Since the country is not too big...I assume Dubai and Abu Dhabi are not too far from eachother...if I know I am going to make it there, I will IM or e-mail you. It would be nice to meet a fellow VWVortexer so far from home!


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (zackiedawg)*

zackiedawg,
are you sure you aren't starting to fall for all the Touareg hype? "The Touareg is going to create the same problem for other manufacturers...it will be excellent on road, much better off-road, and awesomely luxurious and feature-laden, not to mention appearing jewel-like, classy, and substantial on the road"? I don't personally find it jewel-like or classy. I find the exterior dull and unexciting - based ont he pictures. . .maybe the reality will be different. Don't get me wrong - I am #1 in line to purchase a Touareg in my city, and have probably followed its coming to market more closely than anybody. But I test drove the X5 4.4i again last night and I would decribe its interior as as about as good as it gets. I am not suggesting that the Touareg will not be terrific quality, but I sat it in at the car show and I could not detect "better quality" than the X5 or the S500 or other high end cars. In fact I thought the X5 quality was better. I just think there is a bit too much hype and not enough real world experience. Don't mean to be a party pooper but there was the same amount of hype when the ML came out - turned out to be not so good, and when the X5 came out - also turned out to be less than perfect in the first couple of years. Lots of misinformation, lots of very, very high expectations. . .lets hope it isn't a case of the "higher they fly, the harder they fall. . ." I also think that UAE and to a lesser degree Europe are not necessarily representative of the north american markets. anyway, what do I know? The product will simply speak for itself when it arrives. . .cheers all


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (bobalouie)*

I understand where you are coming from...I don't consider myself as having fallen for the hype...I consider myself someone who has a very specific design ideal in my head, and no other manufacturers have ever so perfectly met that expectation as VW and Audi.
As far as jewel-like...Some may not consider the Passat visually exciting either, but none would argue the cleanness of the dsign, and the tightness and oneness of the build, the panel seams, the aerodynamics, and the overall precision and mechanical unity in the design. It is something the Germans are famous for, and most critics have agreed that VW is embodying that classic teutonic style of less is more...better built, no extrenuous features, almost as if the skin of the car has been pulled tight over the frame underneath. This is what I call Jewel-like precision. Cut like a jewel...with precision and accuracy...grade A precision. I happen to love that style, and think the Touareg embodies those attributes in an SUV...one that thank God can perform admirably very far offroad as well as on.
The BMW interiors are quite nice...they are one of the other manufacturers that in my opinion made the most jewel like, precise, and teutonic looking vehicles...along with VAG; at least until someone let Chris Bangle loose with a clay tool and a ruler and destroyed the sparing, purposeful stance of the BMWs he has redesigned.
My problems with the BMW come from the following - fit and finish have been subpar IMO (as with the ML, interior bits are loose and rattling, and parts have even dropped on the floorboards on my brother's); they are too cramped inside for someone of larger frame (that'd be me), and have a vestigial rear seat and even more vestigial rear cargo area; they are nearly pointless offroad, where I would very much intend to use my SUV. Any discussion about the BMW X5s excellent on-road behavior are rendered moot in my book by the fact that a 3-series sportwagon (not to mention the roomier 5-series wagon) has as much or more room, handles as good or better, looks nicer, gets better mileage, can park easier, and performs admirably for less money...so I wonder what the BMW SUV actually gives you over a wagon. With the Touareg, I see more room than a wagon, more features, more engine choices, incredible towing ability, and excellent off-road prowess. So it seems to be defined enough in its differentiation from wagons as to have a point.
As for initial expectations of the ML Mercedes...every advanced review I read warned of the non-Mercedeslike cheapness of the interior...and the fact that it could neither perform off road as well as some competitors, or on road as well as others. The BMW reviews concentrated on the on road prowess, and admitted off road was not even in the cards.
The Touareg initial reviews, on the other hand, have spoken of the excellent on road behavior, the brilliant off road capability that exceed virtually anything in the class at any price, and the interior fit, finish, material, and look which flat-out embarrass most competition at this price range, and actually look like they belong in a $75,000 car. It has flat out won 4 out of 4 comparisons I have seen it entered in by various magazines.
So that is where my zeal for the Touareg comes from. And I feel more and more confident about that fervent ardor being justified by this excellent, uncompromising SUV.


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## bobalouie (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (zackiedawg)*

zackiedawg,
I hope the Touareg gives you as much pleasure as my X5 4.4i X5 gives me. . .I take it home Friday at noon. Completely loaded, with nav package, sport performance package (19inch rims), activity package, PDC. I am as excited as a little kid. Good luck and cheers.


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## wobisobi (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (zackiedawg)*

This is a fantastic building. Here are a couple of links for more info:Link to the Architects home page
www.skyscrapers.com










[Modified by wobisobi, 7:22 AM 4-24-2003]


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (wobisobi)*

Bobalouie,
I am not getting a Touareg yet...I love my W8 Variant quite a bit. I think that whenthe MDX lease is up, it is highly likely that it'll be replaced by the Touareg...but I may hold off from the first few months in hopes of getting more details about the V10 Diesel possibly making it to these shores, and with the x offroad package. I would wait a year if I knew that the V10 was coming! But thanks for the wishes! I definately hope you enjoy your X5 as much as I enjoy my W8!!
WOBISOBI,
It is a gorgeous building, isn't it? I don't know if you had ever known about it previously, or if you are an architect (or architecture buff)...but if you are there are details to study about this building which could occupy a month...everything from the most subtle little trims and details to the overall design...it is rare when a building, bridge, or structure comes along that truly advances design to another level. To me, this is one that certainly does! By the wya, it looks pretty darn nice as a hotel too...highly technologically updated with plasma HDTVs, high speed connections and laptops in every room, remote control stereos, curtains, and lights, etc.; while still retaining the gorgeous materials and classic Arabian-King appointments inside! Plus state of the art conference facilities, lounges, restaurants, and more.
Anyway...sorry to pull off subject! Maybe we should start a new thread about the hotel in the OT forum!!


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (zackiedawg)*

Zackiedawg:
So how has your W8 really stood up over time? You see, I love the whole idea of the Touareg, but pricing will be the ultimate limitation. Personally, since Allroads haven't been selling too well here in the US, it will be one of the cars I'll be considering, along with the W8 Variant, when the time comes we can test drive a Touareg. Considering dealers in my area are still asking for $40-45k for a W8 Variant, I'm thinking deals can be made on a W8 Variant when the Touareg is finally on the lot for the just about the same money for a V8. I like the Allroad and the W8 Variant because of the greater loading capacity than the Touareg, but I like the Allroad and Touareg for some of it's offroad ability which handy when we go on our road trips and camping. Being a faithful snowboarder/skiing family, all 3 vehicles will fill the ticket just fine. It'll all come down adding the pluses/minuses for the three cars when the Touareg becomes available...and even then, I'm still willing to wait another year till after the Touareg has had it's full year of production issues out of the way. Right now, my mother, who drives two S classes, wants the Touareg because of the high seating position she's come to love ever since she road in her sister's Toyota Land Cruiser. Other members of my family have also bid their votes for S4 Avant (I think it'll be too small to hall my 2 dogs...one being 130lbs), Allroad and the W8. My mother was also quite happy that the Touareg won't be coming here in manual form...she's purely an automatic driver...even though the new ride is going to be mine. I really like what W8 has to offer in terms of power and loading capacity...so I've been keepin an eye on any postings relating to the W8 and would love to hear your comments on your own personal experiences.
As for that hotel in Dubai, my partner is a former architect major and he's always talkin' about hot building around the world. I remember him showing me that building when we were rebuilding our offices, telling me that we should redo our building along those lines...LOL...uh yeah, like as if I've won the lotto recently...I WISH! It's a great building and he's always checking out http://www.skyscraper.com and addicted to that new Discovery Channel show, Extreme Engineering...it's all amazin' stuff conceptually and even more impressive when one finally see such a building like the hotel in Dubai.


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (VWMarco)*

vwmarco,
Well I've only had my W8 for just under 6 months, so it isn't much of a long term test...but I am absolutely in love with it.
I love the sound of the engine and the power it makes...I love the solidity and stability on the highway, absolutely wonderful steering (much better than my GLX sedan previously), and excellent brakes.
Build wise, no defects or imperfections...solid as a bank vault. Tolerances are admirable even on the Jettas and Golfs...even better on the German-built Passats in my experience. And equipment-wise, I don't feel like I am missing anything at all. I feel more pampered with features, power controls, wonderful details, etc than I do in my mother's E-Class or CLK Cabrio.
I have only experienced the 4-motion in the snows once, up in North Caroina for my winter getaway...and the handling and traction were absolutely wonderful. Previously, I would take my stepfather's ML430 for that trip, and trade him my Passat sedan...last year I took the MDX...but now with 4Motion, I didn't worry abut getting caught out without snow tires or chains. We got 8" a few days I was up there...and I never even felt any significant drift or slippage...combination of ESP and 4-Motion is quite stable. Back home, I often get to drive in rain and wet conditions...and the handling and acceleration in such conditions is excellent. If pushed intentionally, my car (not sure if the Variant and Sedan have the same balance) drifts wonderfully controllably...you can ride it through a bend with the rear kicked out ten or fifteen degrees all day long.
Hopefully, the Touareg will offer similar balance and controllability (obviously with a little less stability inherent in the taller design), while adding excellent off-road capabilities and towing capacity, which it appears to do.
But if you decide to go with the W8, I would recommend it to anyone, as I love mine. Oh, and the stickers on W8s usually max out at $40,000ish...and you should not purchase one for any more than about $37K...they are definately selling at those numbers and lower in most of the country. Though W8s are fairly popular down here (our dealer moves all of their inventory, and I encounter others on the road every few days), they still discounted very nicely for me. If your local area dealers won't deal, consider driving a few counties, or even another state, away. To save a few thousand, it'd be worth the trip.


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## PhaetonOwner (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (zackiedawg)*

Zackiedawg
Sure that will be GREAT !!
And it will cost you a fortune to sleep in that place







but am sure you will love it !! man that place is like a paradise !!


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## Red Pocket Rocket (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TDI_Dunc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TDI_Dunc* »_<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>








Touarag,Tour-rag doesnt have the presence that this has ,once GM gets the interiors right not many other SUVS will be as good<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is a joke right? The Escalade has to be the worst looking beast of the bunch. Not to mention GM's _wonderful quality product_ ...


the only good thing with this car is the exterior! gimme a break! horrible dash radio lighting everything is crummy its way overrated!


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## robinagourahills (May 12, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*

the thing about Cayennes being sold out for 2 yrs is untrue. Porsche made their dealers buy 2 years worth of Peppers....If you go so some Porsche dealers ,You can pick up a Pepper from the floor. Next year their will be peppers lying all around dealership floors.....You will wont know how wellthe pepper will sell until the 3rd to 4th year when Porsche ends that mandatory contract.


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## Red Pocket Rocket (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (zackiedawg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zackiedawg* »_I understand what you mean about the BMW 7-series and S class MBs...my town here in Florida, and pretty much all of south Florida, has ridiculous amounts of money (many of your rich are from oil...ours are mostly business owners, famous people, and bankers)...so we have too many 7s and S's on the road, as well as all of the exotics like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley, etc. Something like the Phaeton will really stand out. I find that even though my W8 is less expensive, nobody else here has one in wagon form - so even those people driving a car that costs 2 or 3 times as much as mine will still ask questions or stare at it.
Glad to hear you like it. I would consider it to be one of the few cars to look at when I am ready to replace my current car.
I hope to travel to U.A.E. sometime soon...I have been trying to see as much of the World as possible, and have so far never made it to Asia or the Middle East. I am completely awestruck and amazed at the Al Burj Al Arab hotel in Dubai:








I have never seen a building so beautiful in my life, and if I do get over there, that is where I would like to stay. I am a bit of an architecture buff, and that has to be one of the most amazing structures built in the past 20 years, not to mention the features and technology (highest unsupported inner atrium space, built in the middle of a bay, fiber-optic lighting throughout the skin of the building to change its color throughout the night, etc.). It is so appropriately designed into its surroundings, like a giant sail on the water, while retaining classic arabian architectural highlights. Amazing!
Since the country is not too big...I assume Dubai and Abu Dhabi are not too far from eachother...if I know I am going to make it there, I will IM or e-mail you. It would be nice to meet a fellow VWVortexer so far from home!

worlds most luxurious hotel. i saw it on the travel channel the place is redicoulous. i think for every room you rent you get a bentley included as you ride. chaufered of course. going there will be one of my lifes goals. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
to keep on topic. i people pay so much for an escalade (trash)i dont see y they wouldnt pay for a toureg.


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## fitch (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

i do, especially b/c of all the comparrissons that it has won recently


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## akrogirl (May 20, 2003)

I am definitely very interested in seeing the Touareg when it arrives at our local dealer! 
My husband and I must be two of the only people who do not like the X5. As current BMW and Discovery owners, we were both extremely disappointed by our test drive and just didn't feel that the X5 was worth the money. We weren't impressed by its street handling, and we couldn't get the salesman to take us over any sort of dirt road, lol. However, I must admit to really liking the Cayenne S that I tried! The Porsche guy really encouraged me to "drive" the car, also!
We ended up buying an Allroad, which I love, but we are still interested in a true replacement for our aging Discovery at some point. As a proud Omni GLH T owner, I certainly won't care about the badge if the Touareg can deliver the fun and performance we are looking for at the right price.


_Modified by akrogirl at 5:26 AM 5-30-2003_


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## nedzel (May 7, 1999)

*Re: (akrogirl)*

How has your Disco been? I've heard that reliability has been mixed. Has that been your experience? How was the dealer service? Competent and timely?


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: (akrogirl)*

I too am considering in getting an Allroad, especially since they're going to discontinue the model...which means I might be able to get a good price on one...but we're waiting for the Touareg to arrive so we can hedge some serious deals hopefully. I'm a long time owner of BMWs and my family have always owned S-Class Benzs...now that we have A4 and Passat Variant 4Motion, we're pretty psyched about the idea of adding an Allroad or a Touareg...so we'll see...!
What kind of deal did you get on the Allroad and what year was it...if you don't mind me asking...? Thanks!


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## akrogirl (May 20, 2003)

*Re: (VWMarco and nedzel)*

Nedzel first, lol. If you are going to buy a Discovery, the extended warranty is a must. That said, we have both absolutely loved ours and would seriously consider buying another. It handles really rough terrain better, and more smoothly, that any other vehicle I have been in to date. Our main problems have been gasket leaks and window regulator breakages (small plastic part). I'm not sure if that is because we live in the hell that is Phoenix or if it is a more general problem. OTOH, the service from the dealer has always been first rate, complete with regular follow ups by Land Rover NA. Customer satisfaction is obviously a priority.
VWMarco - our Allroad is a 2002. We ended up getting one that had been traded in (along with a 911!) on a BMW 7 series. It had all the options I wanted and was one of the two color combinations I liked, whereas I would have had to wait for a new one in the right configuration. An additional bonus was the on-steering wheel Tiptronic shift buttons, which have apparently been discontinued on the 2003's. I test drove a manual for comparison and was surprised to find that the performance was better in this particular automatic at least. I loved the gearbox in the manual, but the turbo lag was definitely noticeable (and I am very used to driving turbos). My auto, otoh, really kicks ass from a standstill and I find myself leaving everyone else way behind at traffic lights without even trying! Even the BMW salesman was impressed when he drove it. The original sticker was $47K and it had had a few other extras added on after delivery. We paid $39K and it is as spotless as the day it came from the factory, with a completely clean service history to boot, so we were pretty happy with the deal. 


_Modified by akrogirl at 4:59 AM 5-30-2003_


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## step5516 (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (ASurroca)*

I agree! Just by looks alone, the Touareg should be a real killer. I saw one
lastweek on the streets of Ft. Lauderdale with Michigan plates. What a beauty!
I have to say that is without a doubt one of the best looking SUV's out there.
I will be getting one.


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## roccostud (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (A3JET)*

it better be......im not sure its big ehough though








if i was in the market i would get one.....the only suv i would ever get


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## vwwishes (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TRYNTRUEA2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TRYNTRUEA2* »_








Touarag,Tour-rag doesnt have the presence that this has ,once GM gets the interiors right not many other SUVS will be as good

No car, i don't car what kind it is, even it is an f'n caddy... will never be as sick as a VW


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## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: 2 types 2 heads !! (Red Pocket Rocket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Red Pocket Rocket* »_
worlds most luxurious hotel. i saw it on the travel channel the place is redicoulous. i think for every room you rent you get a bentley included as you ride. chaufered of course. going there will be one of my lifes goals. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
to keep on topic. i people pay so much for an escalade (trash)i dont see y they wouldnt pay for a toureg.









Ok let me help you with that. I live in Dubai since almost 4 years and I've visited the hotel several times. My boss even stayed there for a week and I saw also the amaizing and beutyfull suites. 
The billion dollar hotel has a fleet of 7 white Rolls Royce Silver Seraphs which pick up and drop off all the Hotel guests from and to Dubai Airport, some 15 - 20 miles away. There are no Bentleys on the hotel fleet, but if you like, they can trace one for you, at a "simbolic" charge.
Depending on the season, suit type (no rooms there) and personal knowledge, it will cost you 850 - 10,000 USD per night.
But you can try also this other amaizing hotel (Jumeirah Beach Hotel) which is just across the water in the beach side. If you see carefully you can even see the Burj Al Arab Hotel reflection on glass panels. 








There are no Rollses there but BMW 740IL and BMW L7 (V12 stretch) are not bad either










_Modified by Highline at 1:57 PM 6-4-2003_


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## step5516 (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (ASurroca)*

Is this guy crazy? When has GM produced anything that foreign car
manufacturers really considered a major threat?
While I do like the Escalade for its brashness, I love the Toaureg for 
its engineering and great looks. 
And most of all, it is VW at its finest!!! VW has its interiors right, practically
every GM product has a terrible interior. Take notes GM!!!


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (step5516)*


_Quote »_Is this guy crazy? When has GM produced anything that foreign car
manufacturers really considered a major threat?

Well not to defend GM too much...but they have made several vehicles which made their competitors a little nervous recently, including their foreign competitors.
The Corvette, regardless of how cheap the interior materials may be, is a car which can perform in the upper echelon of all vehicles on earth, within a hair's breadth of 911 Turbo, Ferrari 360, and others in acceleration, handling, and braking - and can be purchased for between $40,000 and $50,000, which is 1/3 or less the cost of its competition. Performance for dollar, it will slam virtually anything built. That definately makes foreign manufacturers a little nervous!
The H2, that ugly, plastic, poser, Tahoe-in-a-costume monstrosity - which may have one of the ugliest interiors built - makes many foreign manufacturers nervous since it is selling at more than 175% of estimated volume. Other manufacturers trying to ply their $50K SUVs are having to rebate and discount, while these ridiculous vehicles are driving off dealer lots like they are on a conveyor belt. That definately makes the others nervous, including VW who is about to introduce a similarly priced SUV and is probably wondering if there are any buyers left in that price spectrum since so many ran out and bought an H2.
And last year GM made the whole SUV nervous when its Escalade became the rappers' and athletes' vehicle-du-jour, and sold out (Also selling out the entire inventory of chrome 22-25 inch rims in the United States). Range Rover, Lexus, and Porsche would have loved to have sold that many of THEIR luxury SUVs.
Anyway...the Cadillac is in such a different market than the Touareg that I would never consider cross shopping the two, and I'd imagine very few buyers would either. And VW interiors are drastically far above GM interiors...not to mention build quality, tolerances, material quality, design, and several other categories.
But don't think GM can't still scare other manufacturers...!


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

When it comes to selling volumes in the US, of course US manufacturers will appear to do well. GM builds cars to their best ability for the least amount of money. When the world's largest auto company puts product out in the market, they're not going to just use one platform for one product...they're going to work each platform to it's best ability, meaning spinning off as many products from that one platform as possible with the least amount of expense. Unfortunately, this has contributed to GM's (Ford and Chrysler as well) notorious reputation for mass produced products with SUFFICIENT content that usually comes off as cheap, cheaply made, and screams "mass produced" in all it's negative connotations. American brand cars were meant to be autos for the masses, and not usually for those who're more concerned either about quality, reliability, image, exclusivity and that elusive factor of having bought something truly special when compared to other cars in their perspective segments.
Sure, the Corvette is something special in that it's one of two mass produced American brand sports car. Everyone knows that it's "poor man's" sports car...most bang for the budget, but there's no denying the fact that it's development and materials used were done so in keeping the budget in mind, in spite of it's performance for the dollar. A sports car is more than about performance, it's about image, performance and presence. If price isn't a factor, I'll bet ya anything that most people in a market to buy a sports car wouldn't buy a Corvette...but for most people, cost is always an inhibitor, and that plays into the Corvette's favor. Personally, I just can't see why a Corvette that cost as much as most mid-sized LUXURY cars (MB, BMWs, Audis, Lexus...etc) can't have a truly decently designed interior







. How much does an American sports car have to cost get a quality interior?! Just like the Cadillac Allante of years past...it had a decent looking exterior, but a horrifyingly ugly interior! GM's mindset of finally updating to a markedly improved interior/quality standpoint for it's American market cars is finally improving in recent years (compared to other maker's products in the same perspective segments). But considering how many products GM has worldwide, improving the interiors and better build quality in maybe a dozen cars in their US market doesn't quite cut it in my book...especially when they can't even improve that of the one sports car GM sells in the US...how pathetic! GM has what?...3 sports cars that they build worldwide...upcoming Cadillac XLR, Vauxhall VX220 and the Corvette...and the GM giant can't get a good interior designer for the Corvette?! Must the Corvette's interior and build quality always look like it was done by Fisher-Price?
As far as the Escalade is concerned, it's one of maybe 3 (4 if you count the H2) luxury American brand full sized SUVs available (other two being the Lincoln Navigator and the Yukon Denali that I can think of). Take a good look at the overall build quality and materials used in these vehicles...the Lincoln IMHO has the best looking interior, with the least amount of cheap quality surfaces in it's interior...but again, for vehicles costing $50k and up, why can't GM or any other American car brand pull of 100% quality interiors for these rigs, especially since they're built off long time existing inexpensive basic truck platforms? I know in recent years they given some of these vehicles independent suspensions and other quality tweaks, but that's still a lot money to spend and still get a lot of mass produced cheap quality interior and mechanical parts. The Escalade is like the Corvette in that there's no mistaking it's mass produced budget roots...it's only in the recent year or two that the interior started looking nicer...but still not as nice as the Navigator. The Escalade is for those going more for flash and budget (the bling bling crowd that includes some nouveau riche sports celebrities who're not known for their good tastes), than those truly looking to get a quality SUV with performance to actually do the stuff it was intended to do...crazy offroad abilities, road performance and interior amenities that scream SPECIAL. Depending on your kind of taste and style in cars, most people would be thinking more along the lines of MB G wagons, X5s, MLs, Porsche Cayennes or Range Rovers...the very same people who VW is targeting for the Touareg. You're right in the fact that I don't think someone who'd consider a Escalade would consider a Touareg...I think the target markets of both cars are very different.
AND, if you throw in the long time residuals for Corvettes, Escalades or H2s, they won't nearly hold their value as well other marques like MB, BMW, Porsche, Range Rover or Lexus. So yeah, some American products may be best sellers in their perspective segments or provide the best bang for the buck, but quality, residual values, premier performance and quality materials are just as important, if not moreso to the American customer. Afterall, those foreign car makes are still selling well here in the US market...maybe not as well as some of the domestic makes but enough to force GM to admit they're still playing catch up in other vital areas other than budget costs in their product development to appeal to even those of most discerning tastes.


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*

I agree with virtually everything you are saying...but I was only noting that some of these best selling GM products are causing a little bit of angina for foreign makers. It was stated that nothing GM builds in any way causes foreign manufacturers to be nervous.
No matter how cheap it is, you can lay money down that when Road and Track gathers a Ferrari, a Porsche, and a Corvette together for a performance comparison, the Italian and German engineers are popping pills and tearing their hair out just hoping to God that the cheap-ass plastic Fisher Price toy doesn't smoke their uber-cars.
And you can darn-well bet that despite how cheap or utilitarian the roots of the Escalade or H2 are...the other manufacturers who debuted or intend to debut luxury utes in that price range were getting tension headaches when they saw the sales figures on those two utes...and probably receded their hairline and turned the rest grey wondering if there was enough market left to move their vehicle. If the foreigners weren't nervous about Escalade's dominance in the rap and sports world, then why did they make sure to promote the new Range Rover at special dinners for sports celebrities, and flash it at holyywood and music industry parties? Because they were intensely jealous of the Escalade's guaranteed market.
So while I agree with the lack of quality still showing at most American manufacturers (though they are definately getting better, bit by bit), it doesn't refute the fact that several GM produced vehicles have caused foreign manufacturers to drink half a bottle of Pepto Bismol before going to bed - cheap quality or not.


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zackiedawg* »_No matter how cheap it is, you can lay money down that when Road and Track gathers a Ferrari, a Porsche, and a Corvette together for a performance comparison, the Italian and German engineers are popping pills and tearing their hair out just hoping to God that the cheap-ass plastic Fisher Price toy doesn't smoke their uber-cars.

Yes, this is true. Ultimately when car comparos are done with the Corvette, the Corvette will look pretty damn amazing, even though it may not be the fastest, best looking or best engineered. Bottomline, most readers will see the obvious marketing objective by Corvette marketing spin meisters and fall for the bait: ALMOST all the performance (if not exceed in some measures) of such exclusive makes like Porsche & Ferrari, but for $30-50k less! Unless you're a wealthy individual, how can a potential sports car buyer not be taken by such a strong selling point, not to mention the Corvette historic legacy? If I had such wealth to have an extensive car collection like Jay Leno, you best believe I'd have a '50s & '60s classic Vette in my collection.
From another perspective, by today's standards of cost of vehicles, again I can't help to point out that a $40k-50k car, American brand or not, shouldn't have the cheap interiors and sub standard build quality that you see in today's Vettes. American auto companies are far more capable of building hi tech, quality machines, but the big American auto companies are intent to stick to their priorities...and that's profitability. Make the most profit by producing the most performance with the least amount of cost. With that mindset, it's not really all that surprising why American car makers are perceived as they are. Profit is a higher priority than their passion for design & engineering because they know that most people aren't as wealthy as the average Ferrari and Porsche buyer...so American brands can afford to put out "decent enough quality" cars at comparative segment prices, regardless whether or not their product is best in the segment...the likes of GM or Ford are going to make profit period, and that's their bottomline goal (this doesn't include cases like the Aztec of course!







). Should they discover a way to market a high profit product like SUVs, which are selling anywhere from $30-80k, but are built on truck mechancals that are from base pick-up truck that used to cost under $20k retail. All the marketing spin meisters did was slam another two door and a permanent shell, avoided the term "station wagon" in any PR during the 80s and the profits had rolled in since. Most gullible American buyers over the decades never realized that they were buying a Bronco/F-150/Tahoe/Siverado with a new body, minimal upgraded trim and a 200-300% markup. The Escalade is one of a long line of marketing successes that GM has executed, and they're looking to do the same with the Cadillac XLR, charging another $15-20k more than the Corvette...but I'll be you they'll sell well.

_Quote, originally posted by *zackiedawg* »_If the foreigners weren't nervous about Escalade's dominance in the rap and sports world, then why did they make sure to promote the new Range Rover at special dinners for sports celebrities, and flash it at holyywood and music industry parties? Because they were intensely jealous of the Escalade's guaranteed market.


Actually that's not quite right. Cadillac did the same to market the Escalade years back. Cadillac nor Range Rover is not the first to market their up market products to the Glitz/Hollyrock set. MB, Ford, Rolls Royce, Ferrari...hell even Tucker back in the day...used to set up big premier parties to introduce their next automotive "jewel" to corporate big rollers and the celebrity set. Monte Carlo was a popular site for such huge exclusive auto parties in the 50s and 60s if I remember correctly. Ford would be a fool not to market their latest acquisition, Land Rover/Range Rover, in the same way they've done in the past. If you're old enough to remember, DeLoreans were being sold to the "Rich & Famous" via Neiman-Marcus' catalog back in the '80s. The "premier parties" is essentially an old marketing tool. It words for movies like it works for the auto industry.
I think the Escalade is doing so well (maybe outselling the hi buck Denali or Tahoe that it shares mechanicals and only until recently the same interiors) only because GM is pouring millions into their marketing plans to bring the Cadillac brand name into the same profitable playing field of luxury cars that have been the mainstay of BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus...etc...none of which have included an American brand contender. Cadillac's introduction with their new upline "V-series" will slowly push Cadillac's brand recognition even further with the past success of the Escalade and other products. The very idea of a LS6 V-8 engine from the Corvette in a CTS is going to turn heads. But all this is nothing new to the likes of the German makes...ie. M series Bimmers, AMG MB and S and RS series Audis...Cadillac is just a real late comer to joining the party and they're one upping their true rival, Lincoln, by making such a move.
Now the real question is: If Cadillac can revitalize their brand and really make an international contender in the Sports/Luxury segment after decades of brand image/engineering/technology pitfalls, why do people, even on this forum, not buy into the possibility that VW can't be recognized as a premium/luxury brand here in the US?










_Modified by VWMarco at 3:07 PM 6-9-2003_


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## DrDre1443 (Jun 13, 2003)

"I voted a wishy washy "maybe" because I think its too much money for most Americans to lay down for a VOLKSWAGEN! I don't think VW has cleared that stigma fully just yet though they are on the way. Americans are ig'nant, I hate to say."........................
..............................................isnt $50,000 too much to lay down for any american car?


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: (DrDre1443)*

...isnt $50,000 too much to lay down for any american car?
[/QUOTE]
NO KIDDING!!! I was shocked when I researched some pricing on full sized American trucks and SUVs for a relative who owns a ranch. I'll admit, if there one thing American car companies always did well was make inexpensive trucks...but that "line of thinking" went out the door when majority of the consumers bought into the SUV craze. What it amazes me is how most people never picked up on the fact that these marked up SUVs were usually build on the same inexpensive platforms of the current pickup trucks at the time...and the American car manufacturers made a killing in profits. People around the world were amazed as to how much Americans were willing to spend for poorly made SUVs, not to mention the fact that the quality of materials, build quality and technology has only notably increased in the past few years...and even then, it still doesn't come close to it's european made competitors. Full loaded GMC Denalis and Cadillac Escalades are $60k plus...even a fully loaded Suburban was listing close to the $60k mark...of course this was a couple of years ago and in Calfornia...but still!







...


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## surfsupp (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: (VWMarco)*

Has anybody heard what the initial reliability/quality has been in Europe for the Touareg? I think they've been out for awhile over there (German launch earlier this year?), I imagine there has to be some news as to whether the T-regs have performed well initially.


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: (surfsupp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *surfsupp* »_Has anybody heard what the initial reliability/quality has been in Europe for the Touareg? I think they've been out for awhile over there (German launch earlier this year?), I imagine there has to be some news as to whether the T-regs have performed well initially. 

I think in this particular string, some have mentioned the Touaregs have been out for a year already (I'm assuming Germany and neighboring countries in Europe), and they all had claimed issue free thus far...and that was even ownership during their winter as well! Regardless, we're all waiting for the Touareg to arrive and make believers out of all who live on this side of the pond.
Also, I've been called by three different VW dealerships and visited two other VW dealerships...each salesperson claiming to have returned from Arizona, citing they've driven Touareg, as well as the X5 and MB ML for comparison. Did all the dealers around the nation attend this "T-Reg try out"? One dealer did tell me that all the dealers in the area (he didn't say it was nationwide or local thing) would be doing the official "unveiling" on June 30th. Can anyone else verify this June 30th "unveiling" claim?


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: (VWMarco)*

Just got back from Arizona last night, but I doubt if anything has changed that I am not aware of...June 30th is the Western Region's Official Launch Day...That will be for all of the Dealers here because they will all have their minimum of two units...
Basically a day of special Touareg events...


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## Passat4u (Dec 6, 2002)

100% SUCCESS
A REAL HIT!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Playdrv4me (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (Passat4u)*

I have little doubt that the Touareg will hit its mark IF pricing remains reasonable and option packages are offered smartly. Also good advertising wouldnt hurt.
As a former owner of a 99 Grand Cherokee,I would jump at the chance to own something as capable,in a 10 times more RELIABLE and refined package. The only reason I didnt buy ANOTHER SUV,is that the ones I wanted were either out of reach,or the rest were American crap-ola,which frankly,Im FINISHED with. 
The Phaeton however,will probably see a horrible fate with easily accessible and BETTER alternatives on the other side of the corporate park,and VW better not plan to keep upping pricing too on the Treg or they will be hurt.
Heres a question on the opposite side of the coin: HOW is the Audi version going to be BETTER than the Touareg,while not hitting Cayenne pricing!? I just looked at interior pics and OMG what a beautiful truck. Theres even a diagnostic color LCD in the DASH! Ive only seen THAT on that new Chrysler station wagon thing so far.
MHO.


_Modified by Playdrv4me at 3:53 AM 6-23-2003_


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## Vagrant1 (Jan 25, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (TDI_Dunc)*

I agree the escalade is tight on some 24's but not even close to made with the quality the touareg is. i'd rather have the dub on 22's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Floppy Boot (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vr6pilot)*

quite frankly, I wouldn't get anywhere near one of them - I just don't see who really needs that much vehicle. But will they succeed in the States? Could well be. They will do better in the US than Canada - we are the land of CRVs, RAV4 and Foresters.
I can't see them cannibalizing from Jettas and Passats - completlely different markets. The biggest complaint from North American VW dealers (ok, 2nd biggest, after WTF is with all these warranty repairs?) is that they don't have a wide enough product line.
Bug
Golf
Jetta & wagon
Passat & wagon
OK, how many cars can I try at a Toyota dealer? way more than that, right.
This hulking beast might well fly.


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Floppy Boot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Floppy Boot* »_The biggest complaint from North American VW dealers (ok, 2nd biggest, after WTF is with all these warranty repairs?) is that they don't have a wide enough product line.
Bug
Golf
Jetta & wagon
Passat & wagon
OK, how many cars can I try at a Toyota dealer? way more than that, right.

Well, I think you're exaggerating a bit to say that VW only offers those products. There's the Convertible Bug, the turbo variants of the Bug, Jetta & Golf, the 5 door Golfs, the diesels engined VWs, VW Bus and Vanagon. Then in the coming year, diesels will be offered in the Passat, as well as the upline Touareg & Phaeton. Then there will be the possibility of the people mover Touran coming here as well, with its morphing interiors.
Granted, Toyota offers a larger product line that's reliable and well engineered, but I think their current design think of the their products are unattractive and their interiors are merely sufficient. The VW product line up is far more passionately developed in design and product content. VWs have yet to prove their reliability like Honda or Toyota, but I think most drivers who're into buying a VW, won't necessarily buy a Toyota or Honda for the same reasons. There's a reason why Toyotas and Honda are viewed as reliable, but boring cars...VWs are far from boring, although their reliability still runs behind that of Toyota or Honda...then again, all other auto manufacturer's reliability is behind Toyota and Honda. If reliability, SUV (Toyota now offers 4 SUVs, 6 including Lexus models), Minivan or truck are of the upmost importance , I highly recommend a Toyota or Honda...but if you want performance, more stimulating design, content and driver involvement, I'd recommend VW or other makes...most likely european in origin.
The only car that I thought was a well executed in Toyotas product line up is the Celica...at least as far as looks are concerned...and even that model is soon do for a replacement. VW on the other hand will be offering all sorts of products with the likes of new products from the new Golf Platform...ie. the Merekesh to run up against the upcoming BMW X3, awd as an option on almost all the VW platforms, and the release of total redesigns of the Passat, Jetta, Golf and Vanagon. I don't see anything coming down the production line from Toyota that will be anywhere as highly anticipted as what will be coming from VW in the next couple of years.
I'll take my Passat any day over a geriatric Camry or its ugly Lexus twin...not to mention that Passat still hold their residual value better than any other family mid sized sedan on the market (according to Edmunds and other auto consumer organizations)!


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## Floppy Boot (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*

all I am saying is that VW dealers really want a new platform vehicle to expand their product line, and I don't think it will draw sales from the other cars.
granted, the golf comes in about 728 flavours, but to the untrained eye they all look exactly the same.
this vee dub sport brute is certainly an awesome piece of engineering, but I honestly can't for the life of me see why anyone would want or need one.
here I go, flame suit on, back to the MKIV forum. Cheers dudes


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## step5516 (Jan 27, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Floppy Boot)*

What person needs a $40,000 SUV? What's wrong with a $25,000 one? For what you get in the Touareg, the price is well worth it. BMW did it, Lexus did it and Infiniti has done it. SUVs are the hottest vehicles going. Before you condemn the Touareg, give it a chance to prove itself.
The only concern VW has is its spotty quality record, $40K for a Touareg and $70K for the Phaeton would be too much to pay if the cars suffer the same fate as the Jetta.


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (step5516)*


_Quote, originally posted by *step5516* »_The only concern VW has is its spotty quality record, $40K for a Touareg and $70K for the Phaeton would be too much to pay if the cars suffer the same fate as the Jetta.

Funny you should say that. I say that for the most part, the quality fit/finish is almost as nice as the Audis, but you don't see anyone questioning the rationalization of buying an Audi or a BMW for that matter.
Why is it so far fetched to pay a premium price for a VW? The VW products being sold today have very little in common with VWs of decade ago. What the obvious issue here is VW's brand perception and I'll be first to admit that the recent quality fiascos regarding problems like the coil pack debacle really hurt VW's rise in the premium product category. I do understand the issues recent model Golfs/Jettas have had like car window "falling" into their doors because of cheap plastic bracket that should have been made of metal (This has affected my friend's decision to get rid of his '02 Jetta, totally disenchanting him of any VW product..."...My Acura Integra has never had such problems...!" he ranted.).
As for need or want of a luxury mid sized vehicle, the demand it's out there. I think asking the question regarding the need of ANY LUXURY product is pointless...it's a LUXURY product, thus meaning it's judged by a totally different standard. It's never about need...it's always about WANT. After test driving a Touareg today, it definitely falls in the WANT category.


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vwvortex1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwvortex1* »_The success of this vehicle will ultimately come down to two things:
1. Marketing
2. The Press
So far the press that got an advanced drive have written glowing reviews. So far so good...
VW needs to really exploit their younger demographic that likes camping, hiking, snow skiing and snowboarding, wave runners, etc. Even if it shows 30 something people doing these things, it will spark people's younger side.
Anyway, my .02 cents.
-jamie

Kaa-chiiing!!! Being a bit of a beach bum, camper, backpacker, I can tell you that VW is holding an ace in its hands for this crowd. VWoA should sponsor outdoors/wilderness events. Advertise to the same crowd that buys gears from REI, Adventure 16, Patagonia, Mountain Hardwear, Sierra Design, Marmot and MSR. They're quite well-to-do and spend thousands of dollars on their esoteric gears. They can definite appreciate the Touareg from a technical perspective. The Touareg puts 95% of the trucks/SUVs (that I've seen taken for outdoors activities) to shame.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (Cadenza_7o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cadenza_7o* »_Kaa-chiiing!!! Being a bit of a beach bum, camper, backpacker, I can tell you that VW is holding an ace in its hands for this crowd. VWoA should sponsor outdoors/wilderness events. Advertise to the same crowd that buys gears from REI, Adventure 16, Patagonia, Mountain Hardwear, Sierra Design, Marmot and MSR. They're quite well-to-do and spend thousands of dollars on their esoteric gears. They can definite appreciate the Touareg from a technical perspective. The Touareg puts 95% of the trucks/SUVs (that I've seen taken for outdoors activities) to shame.

Touareg is too hig priced to be a major player in the 20-something market. Nor does it seemed to be aimed at the real outdoor market (despite being a capable offroad vehicle). It is filled with too much luxury to reduce the price too.
As I said in another post, the Touareg as it is known today should have been an Audi and VW should have a less expensive (maybe smaller) but just as capable SUV in their house. 
Nice vehicle but I don't see it being a great success in the USA.


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## VW-Newbie (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (car_nut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_nut* »_If the Touareg is marketed properly, no vague VW type ads, it will kill Volvo wagon sales. 

You obviously haven't seen the Touareg commercials. They fit very well with the W8 commercial ("perfect car for old dudes who want to race kids on big wheels") and the Jetta commercial ("a car to attract psycho homeless people").
For a company attempting to climb the visibility ladder they are doing themselves a disfavor by going with horrible advertising ideas.
On paper, the Touareg should be a major hit in the States. However, with VW's track record of bad advertising coupled with a history of poor service they have their work cut out. I can't imagine the look on someone's face when their $50,000 T-reg is in the shop for a week or more (coilpack problems?) and they aren't offered a loaner


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VW-Newbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW-Newbie* »_
You obviously haven't seen the Touareg commercials.

They aren't too bad...they actually have some appeal to the VW crowd, as they are showing other familiar VW models. And they are at least demonstrating some of the SUV capabilities of the vehicle. From what I have heard, these are only 'primer' ads, and the main campaign has not yet been kciked off. I'll hold judgement until I see which way the main ads go.

_Quote »_the W8 commercial ("perfect car for old dudes who want to race kids on big wheels") and the Jetta commercial ("a car to attract psycho homeless people").


I agree with you here. Their advertising on the W8 was horrible, and the attempt at showing the cult following of current VWs was horribly misguided and badly handled. They need to do much better.

_Quote »_However, with VW's track record of bad advertising coupled with a history of poor service they have their work cut out. I can't imagine the look on someone's face when their $50,000 T-reg is in the shop for a week or more (coilpack problems?) and they aren't offered a loaner









You lost me here. First of all, I'll assume you are very young...since no other car maker has won more awards for its advertising than VW. Their track record is in fact the industry gold-standard. Only very recently did some of their ad campaigns begin to slip up (most notably, the two you mentioned). Even as late as 2000, they won a rash of awards for their alternative music-timed commercials (now the most imitated type of commercial on TV)...when I purchased my 2000 Passat, the commercial on the air showed the V6 Passat being hailed by police to pursue robbers, and the driver flings it through the street, fishtailing through turns and all...the type of commercial the W8 needed!
As far as the Touareg owner in the shop...the Touareg engines are not susceptible to the coil pack problems. I'm sure you meant to imply that VWs in general have horrible reliability based on your poor experience with one...but far more people have had trouble-free experiences with their VWs than those who have suffered mechanical problems. As for loaners, I have been receiving loaner cars when I serviced my VWs since 2000, with my Passat GLX, and continue to receive loaners whenever I service my W8. My current dealer stocks all VW loaners too, and the service has been the absolute pinnacle of any dealership I have visited...they are excellent, thorough, clean, friendly, and well-staffed, and I would recommend VW service (at least down here in South Florida) to anyone over that of Mercedes Benz, Audi, or Acura (all of which I have had to use)!


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## VW-Newbie (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zackiedawg* »_You lost me here. First of all, I'll assume you are very young...since no other car maker has won more awards for its advertising than VW. 

Wrong assumption! Well, unless you consider mid-30's young








VW may have won some awards, I won't argue that. Some really sh!tty movies have won some Academy Awards too! But in the last few years I can't think of a single ad from VW that sticks with me. I can rattle off a list for other car makers, but not VW. If VW is serious about overcoming the image of being a perfect vehicle for college age kids and hippies they need to make changes ASAP. The first impression people usually have of an auto company is generated from advertising. So far VW is doing a p!ss poor job for the W8 and the Touareg, I've seen nothing that would make me, if I were unfamiliar with the brand, jump up and head to the showroom!


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VW-Newbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW-Newbie* »_
But in the last few years I can't think of a single ad from VW that sticks with me. I can rattle off a list for other car makers, but not VW. If VW is serious about overcoming the image of being a perfect vehicle for college age kids and hippies they need to make changes ASAP. 

Ok, I have to agree that maybe the W8 commercial (which I actually liked being a family man myself) and the Jetta commercial (which I can't recall, so that may prove your point







) aren't so sterling, but the Golf commercial with that "Daa Daa Daa" song was a major hit...ya know, the commercial that had the two guys picking up an abandon love seat on the street. That commercial hit so many markets and every one knew it...the two guys was associated with all sorts of demographics: young urban hipsters, tech geeks, yuppies, homosexuals, the college crowd, yuppies, the 20s & 30s crowd...etc. That was a huge commercial hit for VW, which they did win awards for and that commercial was only a couple of years ago.
One point that you did make though that does also concern me is a scenario where someone finds their TReg in a shop because of a technical failure like a faulty coil pack. Taking that situation into mind, reminds me of how many people in the Audi forums, complaining that there were good coil packs in their dealers lot and only some dealers were willing to appease some customers by removing the good packs from the cars on the lot to replace the bad ones in their customers cars. This way they didn't have to wait a week...but that only happened a few times, while most had to wait the week or two (I had to wait 2.5 weeks for my A4) to get the part. If this were to happen with VW's premium cars like the TReg and Phaeton, VW might as well get out of the luxury market now. If they couldn't get the premium service right for Audi, what hope do VW customers hold?







I know VW dealerships have undergone a new retraining program to prepare VW for dealing with a new upscale demographic, but from what I've read on this forum, the training hasn't really permeated to all VW dealerships...and that's not a good sign, especially after how poorly VW handles the damn coil pack fiasco. We love our VW and Audi, but having been long time owners of BMWs and MBs, VW/Audi has yet to show any obvious pluses/advantages over its German competitors (we won't even bother mentioning the excellence of Lexus service) in the Customer Service/Satisfaction area. I still may buy a TReg or an allroad, and still waiting in anticipation for the new VW Bus and other VW products....SO, only time will tell whether VW will get their act together...


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## VW-Newbie (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWMarco* »_
Ok, I have to agree that maybe the W8 commercial (which I actually liked being a family man myself) and the Jetta commercial (which I can't recall, so that may prove your point







) aren't so sterling, but the Golf commercial with that "Daa Daa Daa" song was a major hit...ya know, the commercial that had the two guys picking up an abandon love seat on the street. 

The W8 commercial was poorly done because it did nothing to introduce the W8 as VW "step-up". It could have just as easily been used with a 1.8T, V6 or even *gasp* a Jetta.
Now that you mention it I do remember a single VW commercial, the "stinky love seat" one. However, while it was original (and funny as well) nothing in that spot made me think twice about considering a VW at the time. What exactly was the point??? So you can stick an abandoned, foul smelling piece of furniture in the back? I can do that just as easily with $500 pickup truck


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VW-Newbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW-Newbie* »_
The W8 commercial was poorly done because it did nothing to introduce the W8 as VW "step-up". It could have just as easily been used with a 1.8T, V6 or even *gasp* a Jetta.


Yeah, I can see your point on not really emphasizing the "upgrade" fo the W8, but considering how well the positioned the Passat is in the market place (the Passat is currently the Residual King in it's segment after 4 years of ownership), maybe they thought it wasn't necessary to be so obvious...emphasizing more with the lifestyle of those owning a VW product. It may work for some, obviously doesn't work for others, but it's no where as lame as the Infiniti commercials from the 80s. I also thought the commercial marketing VW's 4motion awd system was pretty entertaining...the one with the spinning Taurus on ice...lol!

_Quote, originally posted by *VW-Newbie* »_
Now that you mention it I do remember a single VW commercial, the "stinky love seat" one. However, while it was original (and funny as well) nothing in that spot made me think twice about considering a VW at the time. What exactly was the point??? So you can stick an abandoned, foul smelling piece of furniture in the back? I can do that just as easily with $500 pickup truck









Obviously, you weren't in a market for a Golf since you missed the point of the commercial. It was a feature on the lifestyle of owner's of a Golf. Like I said, the commercial had broad appeal and was a big success for VW in creating brand awareness...hence why it won a bunch of awards. It had very little to do with the "smelly love seat" anymore than it had to do as to whether the two guys were lovers or if they were just roommates. It's all about "a day in a life with a Golf"...that's it, no more than that.


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## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (VWMarco)*

I doubt VW will have any problems selling the Touareg, the new advertisements (Beetle towing airstream, Jetta in snowbank) are fabulous and like said above its one hell of a bargain for what you get. Same form the Jetta, Golf and Passat are following. 
I have had no problems with the dealership I use for service (Dirito Brothers Volkswagen in Walnut Creek), the facilities look like they have not been updated since the last VW Bus rolled off the lot but the sales/service is superb. 
Its a huge change from the 'we only treat older people well' attitude and generally piss poor service I always received at Honda/Acura, Honda/Acura has gotten too snooty for their own good.


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## VWMarco (Nov 21, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (pezzy84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pezzy84* »_I have had no problems with the dealership I use for service (Dirito Brothers Volkswagen in Walnut Creek), the facilities look like they have not been updated since the last VW Bus rolled off the lot but the sales/service is superb.

Living in Daly City, the closest dealership with most decent service is Boardwalk VW, and even their service has been 50/50. One time I took my car in for it's regular service, and they cited that my engine was misfiring and needed to have its spark plugs replaced. I said to go ahead and change them out. Then during my next scheduled service, which apparently included switching out my spark plugs (I didn't realize this), they changed them again...BUT at my expense! I asked them why they switched out my spark plugs again since they had changed them out during my last visit...the service rep's reply was that I didn't tell them that they had been switched out the plugs during my last visit. I replied, "...don't you guys keep records on your computers as to what kind of work you've done on my car the last time I was here for service...?!" Apparently not...and since I had signed off on the work to be done on my car (one of those pre-printed forms citing a list of action items that will be done on for my 40k service), I had no recourse. Sure, it's my mistake for assuming that they wouldn't reinstall newly replaced spark plugs that they had installed the last time, but that's just really tainted my faith in that dealership. All the VW dealerships with great reviews are all in the east bay and are too inconvenient for me to take my car to for service...but I think that's all just changed from this point on and I'll try a dealership out in Berkeley...we'll see.


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## brent0226 (May 26, 2002)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (zackiedawg)*

What happened to the old Jetta commercials?? Like:
1) when the guy claims his jetta by licking the handle
2) saving the jetta from a runaway shopping cart
3) the roll down window feature
4) the wedding VR6 with the cool music
5) the Wolfie commercials when they go into the woods
6) HOW could I forget?? Synchronicity!!! one of the best commercials I've ever seen
etc.
now what do we have?
1) Guy coming out at night and freaks trying to get a ride?? WTF??
2) co-pilot for the GLI? that was dumb!
3) ... absence of other commercials ...
4) weirdo twins with the half sunburns???
Anything else I forgot?


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## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (brent0226)*

If you can't remember the other crappy ones...I will not remind you...'The list is long, but not distiguished'


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## mknight (Mar 2, 1999)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vwguild)*

Speaking of ads, there's a 4 page print ad in the August issue of Car and Driver on pages 6,7,8, and 9. Pages 6/7 show a Golf nose down in a creek, the driver circling in front up to his knees. No caption on these pages. Pages 8/9 show the Touareg barging across, large bow wave, etc. Caption for these pages reads:
"Introducing the Touareg. The Volkswagen that does what other Volkswagens don't. With it's ability to ford more than a foot and a half of water, climb 45 degree hills and tow a 7700 pound load, it's truly a remarkable car. But don't take our word for it. Car and Driver named it the Best Luxury SUV in 2003. To find out more, go to vw.com. Drivers Wanted"
--Mike


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: How many of you think the Touareg will be a success here in the States? (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwguild* »_If you can't remember the other crappy ones...I will not remind you...'The list is long, but not distiguished'










"Cooper!!!" 
the one were the guy wakes up his friend to show him his new Jetta...
and of the new ones run with a smaller crowd...


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## SOCAL XMER (Nov 8, 2002)

I hope it sells well here there are 2 at the dealer in Valencia and there not moving.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (SOCAL XMER)*

My dealer tells me he has sold 6 but delivered 0. I will be his first tomorrow.


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