# Will Be Driving TT This Week, Plus TT Reviews Begin.



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Audi has begun letting the world press drive the TT and TTS. I'll be flying out tomorrow to Spain in order to get a first crack at the car, including TTS on the track I am told. If you have any specific questions, I'll try to chase them down. 

In the meantime, CAR Magazine is one of the first I'm seeing with a review. You can read their story HERE: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Audi-TT-Coupe-2015-review/


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

*More Reviews*

Top Gear has first impressions, with more soon:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/new-audi-tt-first-drive-2014-09-02



Autocar has a review up as well:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/tt/first-drives/audi-tt-coupe-first-drive-review


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## ARK80Scirocco-96GLX (Feb 14, 2008)

*Faster than...*

Faster then a base 911 or Cayman GTS, and still gets mid to upper 30's MPG...hmm makes waiting or even wanting the RS a little easier? Now it's just a matter of waiting and figuring how to convince significant other this should be my next car. 

Thanks for links!!


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

I stumbled on this wonderful thing today, and I honestly think that the TTS in yellow is one of the best looking cars since BMW threw away the E46.

I'll add this to my short list against the B9 S5. At this rate though the TTS could end up faster with less mods.


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Audi has begun letting the world press drive the TT and TTS. I'll be flying out tomorrow to Spain in order to get a first crack at the car, including TTS on the track I am told. If you have any specific questions, I'll try to chase them down.
> 
> In the meantime, CAR Magazine is one of the first I'm seeing with a review. You can read their story HERE: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/Audi-TT-Coupe-2015-review/


Great news that you are going over to drive it, look forward to your impressions.
Especially want to hear about steering feel, and feedback.

Feature Questions:
Will we get Driver Seat memory, Back Up Camera, Matrix LED Headlights?
What about Mag Ride on the S Line?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Can_quattro said:


> Great news that you are going over to drive it, look forward to your impressions.
> Especially want to hear about steering feel, and feedback.
> 
> Feature Questions:
> ...


Will do. Am also curious about the Haldex upgrades.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm mostly interested in the feel of the car. I could conceivably consider buying this car over the upcoming TT-RS because I truly feel that it will be a better balanced car. Yes, the TT-RS will be much faster in the straights and faster on a road course as well as a consequence of its horsepower, but I have high expectations for the new TTS as an overall package.

How does the TTS handle its weight? If you have driven some of its contemporaries, such as the outgoing TTS, the outgoing TT-RS, the Audi S4/S5, and the VW Golf R I'd like to hear real tangible comparisons to these cars. From looking at the spec sheet, with the lower weight, the S3's excellent powerplant and the revised Haldex, this car looks like it could seriously punch above its weight and even take shots as true sports cars like the 911, V8 R8 and Cayman GTS. That's what I'm interested to hear about -- if I buy this car over the new TT-RS, it will be solely because I'm willing to give up the +100 HP for a car with a truly new and refined aluminum block engine up front and a more balanced overall package, so those are my questions. Real seat time driving impression stuff. I'm glad that you own a current TTS because I feel this could be a really useful review to read. 

(My expectations, based on C&D's Lightning Laps: the outgoing Golf R ran a 3'14", the outgoing TTS ran a 3'08". I expect the MK7 R to be about 5-8 seconds faster than the old one, which puts it around or faster than the outgoing TTS. If the new TTS can pull the same trick, it should be close to a 3'00" which is around the laptime of an R8, 911, Cayman R and even the early GT-R.)


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*US mpg will be less since the quoted number is in imperial gallons*



ARK80Scirocco-96GLX said:


> Faster then a base 911 or Cayman GTS, and still gets mid to upper 30's MPG...hmm makes waiting or even wanting the RS a little easier? Now it's just a matter of waiting and figuring how to convince significant other this should be my next car.
> 
> Thanks for links!!


Also, I don't understand why the UK review says mpg goes down with larger 20" rims. Total tire & rim diameter should be nearly constant irespective of rime used. Makes no sense.


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*Lots of questions, if Audi has answers*



[email protected] said:


> If you have any specific questions, I'll try to chase them down.


Date of sale and base price in the US for the TT coupe, TT roadster, S models of both, and RS models of both?


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

Vegas-RoadsTTer said:


> Also, I don't understand why the UK review says mpg goes down with larger 20" rims. Total tire & rim diameter should be nearly constant irespective of rime used. Makes no sense.


UK brochure is quite clear on the fuel economy hit. See this article, it helps explain why:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/effects-of-upsized-wheels-and-tires-tested.

Bigger wheels make for a heavier wheel and tire package, this hurts fuel economy and sometimes performance.


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*The UK statement still does not make sense*



Can_quattro said:


> UK brochure is quite clear on the fuel economy hit. See this article, it helps explain why:
> http://www.caranddriver.com/features/effects-of-upsized-wheels-and-tires-tested.
> 
> Bigger wheels make for a heavier wheel and tire package, this hurts fuel economy and sometimes performance.


The C&D test showed a 10% decrease in mpg from 15" to 19" rims. The Uk article claims a 10% drop from 19" to 20".


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*Anther question regarding the technology package being offered*

Apparently it uses Google for NAV but today I would rather use WAZE and I might prefer something else in the future. Does the technology package allow the driver to choose their nav program?


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## ARK80Scirocco-96GLX (Feb 14, 2008)

*Wait or not*

As I'm thinking ahead for my next personal driving machine and was considering/planning on the TT (unless they bring the S1 to the states), the question is; Should I wait for the 2015 TT or consider a good deal on a last gen/2014? I typically like to buy slightly (a year or two old, less then 20K miles) used, which means to get a gen 3, it'll be two+ years!! Will be worth the wait, or that much better then the gen 2??


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*Not worth the wait from what I've seen of 6 pro reviews*



ARK80Scirocco-96GLX said:


> As I'm thinking ahead for my next personal driving machine and was considering/planning on the TT (unless they bring the S1 to the states), the question is; Should I wait for the 2015 TT or consider a good deal on a last gen/2014? I typically like to buy slightly (a year or two old, less then 20K miles) used, which means to get a gen 3, it'll be two+ years!! Will be worth the wait, or that much better then the gen 2??


First, some clarifications. The last MY for the Mk 2 in the US is the 2015 model. These cars were built at the end of production in 2014 and labeled as 2015s so there was not a missing year like the 2007 switch from Mk 1 to Mk 2. The Mk 3 coupe will debut in the US sometime next summer as a 2016 model.

Summarizing the half dozen UK articles I've read, the big improvement in the Mk 3 is the interior. The dash display is an industry leader. There are slight improvements in handling but several reviewers complained about lack of steering feel. The engine in the base Mk 3 TT is a very slight improvement over the TFSI provided in the 2011+ Mk 2. Probably the biggest thing effecting your decision is cost. One UK article says the base MK 3 TT is 5K British pounds more expensive that last year's model. While that includes 20% VAT, and the fact that European prices do not translate to US prices by merely using the exchange rate, it now seems highly likely that the Mk 3 will see a serious price boost here as compared to the Mk 2.

If you are considering a TTS, I think the big improvement in the engine over the MK 2 would be worth waiting for.

I've bought my last 2 TTs as you do. I get mine that look almost showroom new with around 10K on the ticker for about 25% off of original MSRP. Let someone else eat the depreciation. If you search nationwide on autotrader or cars.com, there are a lot of great buys on low mileage TTs.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Can_quattro said:


> Great news that you are going over to drive it, look forward to your impressions.
> Especially want to hear about steering feel, and feedback.
> 
> Feature Questions:
> ...


Steering feel was good... I thought a bit more direct than the previous car, but I didn't drive them back to back. Handling was very impressive. Some time in a FWD had us scratching our heads that it was FWD given how neutrally it handled. The quattros with torque vectoring are as mind-blowing as it was when they added Sport Differential to the B8... maybe moreso. 

As for the packaging, it's too far out to tell. U.S. product planner was with us in Spain, but we're about a year away from in-market timing so likely he knew basics, but wasn't sharing yet.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Vegas-RoadsTTer said:


> Also, I don't understand why the UK review says mpg goes down with larger 20" rims. Total tire & rim diameter should be nearly constant irespective of rime used. Makes no sense.


Unsprung weight on a 20-inch is considerably higher. Lowering unsprung weight is some of the most cost-effective improvements you can do to a car to improve both acceleration and efficiency. Rubber is usually lighter than alloy. Go with a larger alloy and you have more unsprung weight, though there are handling advantages to lower profile tires and of course there are the aesthetic advantages.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

jsausley said:


> I'm mostly interested in the feel of the car. I could conceivably consider buying this car over the upcoming TT-RS because I truly feel that it will be a better balanced car. Yes, the TT-RS will be much faster in the straights and faster on a road course as well as a consequence of its horsepower, but I have high expectations for the new TTS as an overall package.
> 
> How does the TTS handle its weight? If you have driven some of its contemporaries, such as the outgoing TTS, the outgoing TT-RS, the Audi S4/S5, and the VW Golf R I'd like to hear real tangible comparisons to these cars. From looking at the spec sheet, with the lower weight, the S3's excellent powerplant and the revised Haldex, this car looks like it could seriously punch above its weight and even take shots as true sports cars like the 911, V8 R8 and Cayman GTS. That's what I'm interested to hear about -- if I buy this car over the new TT-RS, it will be solely because I'm willing to give up the +100 HP for a car with a truly new and refined aluminum block engine up front and a more balanced overall package, so those are my questions. Real seat time driving impression stuff. I'm glad that you own a current TTS because I feel this could be a really useful review to read.
> 
> (My expectations, based on C&D's Lightning Laps: the outgoing Golf R ran a 3'14", the outgoing TTS ran a 3'08". I expect the MK7 R to be about 5-8 seconds faster than the old one, which puts it around or faster than the outgoing TTS. If the new TTS can pull the same trick, it should be close to a 3'00" which is around the laptime of an R8, 911, Cayman R and even the early GT-R.)


Will save some of this for my review, but here are some insights.

Handling neutrality is intensely better. Torque vectoring makes you a super hero and neutralizes understeer, bringing the tail around quite easily.... even under throttle. This is all software, and Hackenberg said the TT RS will be even more aggressively tuned to handle with accelerator input. 

Pace as compared to a TT RS? If your TT RS is stock, then they're close. I'd say the TTS Mk3 is 8 or 9/10ths the outgoing TT RS in sheer power, and well past it in handling. Chip tuning would likely take you back to TT RS and then some based on what we're seeing of A3/S3 chip tuning.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Vegas-RoadsTTer said:


> Date of sale and base price in the US for the TT coupe, TT roadster, S models of both, and RS models of both?


If I just knew all that.  

I do know this. TT and TTS arrive next summer as 2016 models. Fingers crossed they'll come earlier since Audi is effectively out of inventory on the current car anyway and they like to under promise and over-deliver. That said, AoA staff on hand kept saying "about a year" until it arrives.

TT RS no info on this yet. Roadsters? Probably same time as TT/TTS coupes for USA but that's unconfirmed.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Vegas-RoadsTTer said:


> Apparently it uses Google for NAV but today I would rather use WAZE and I might prefer something else in the future. Does the technology package allow the driver to choose their nav program?


I've got good news and bad news. Bad news first. Waze doesn't seem to be on their radar. I mentioned it specifically while talking to some of their MMI team. Audi's ERL lab in Palo Alto is very aware, but the Germans weren't familiar. 

Now for the good news. Google actually purchased Waze a while back. Google maps has been using Waze traffic data too... just not the other real time data like speed traps, stranded cars or inclement weather.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

ARK80Scirocco-96GLX said:


> As I'm thinking ahead for my next personal driving machine and was considering/planning on the TT (unless they bring the S1 to the states), the question is; Should I wait for the 2015 TT or consider a good deal on a last gen/2014? I typically like to buy slightly (a year or two old, less then 20K miles) used, which means to get a gen 3, it'll be two+ years!! Will be worth the wait, or that much better then the gen 2??


I turned in my TT S line competition a few months ago. Having just driven a TT 2.0 TFSI S tronic S line quattro, TT TDI ultra MT6, TTS MT6 and TTS S tronic, I have to say the old car feels dated and isn't nearly as good in handling. The old car is a great and fun car, but the new car really is that much better. It will likely be 1.5 to 2 years before you see much in the way of used TT Mk3s. If you like good deals and don't want to wait, pick up a CPO Mk2 now and drive it for two years or pick up an A3/S3 and do the same.


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*Thanks. I really like WAZE because of freeway speed trap info*



[email protected] said:


> I've got good news and bad news. Bad news first. Waze doesn't seem to be on their radar. I mentioned it specifically while talking to some of their MMI team. Audi's ERL lab in Palo Alto is very aware, but the Germans weren't familiar.
> 
> Now for the good news. Google actually purchased Waze a while back. Google maps has been using Waze traffic data too... just not the other real time data like speed traps, stranded cars or inclement weather.


So reading between the lines, you can not change the nav program?


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*Sounds like you disagree with the UK magazine reviewers?*



[email protected] said:


> I turned in my TT S line competition a few months ago. Having just driven a TT 2.0 TFSI S tronic S line quattro, TT TDI ultra MT6, TTS MT6 and TTS S tronic, I have to say the old car feels dated and isn't nearly as good in handling. The old car is a great and fun car, but the new car really is that much better. It will likely be 1.5 to 2 years before you see much in the way of used TT Mk3s. If you like good deals and don't want to wait, pick up a CPO Mk2 now and drive it for two years or pick up an A3/S3 and do the same.


What year TT S line did you have so I can get a better baseline on your comments? IMO the UK reviews were mediocre on the handling. I'm glad you think there is a significant drive improvement over the Mk 2. Personally, I'm really interested in the new TTS roadster, even more now that you rate it as 90% of a TTRS but with better handling. The TTRS is the only coupe I've considered buying in the past 20 years.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Handling neutrality is intensely better. Torque vectoring makes you a super hero and neutralizes understeer, bringing the tail around quite easily.... even under throttle. This is all software, and Hackenberg said the TT RS will be even more aggressively tuned to handle with accelerator input.


Do you have any insight as to how this compares to the S3? Since they're the same platform, and both 's' models, I would hope that the S3 gets some/all of this software wizardry.. but I don't think I really felt it when I drove an S3.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Vegas-RoadsTTer said:


> So reading between the lines, you can not change the nav program?


I know Audi uses nav traffic data from another source and I assume they're using Google data too. Google, through its ownership of Waze, does use Waze traffic data. I've seen annotation of that when planning itineraries through maps.google.com. 

Right now there's really no provision for use of multiple navigation platforms and I'm not aware of any car company or navigation platform like Garmin using Waze data. The only way to do that is via your phone, but please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Vegas-RoadsTTer said:


> What year TT S line did you have so I can get a better baseline on your comments? IMO the UK reviews were mediocre on the handling. I'm glad you think there is a significant drive improvement over the Mk 2. Personally, I'm really interested in the new TTS roadster, even more now that you rate it as 90% of a TTRS but with better handling. The TTRS is the only coupe I've considered buying in the past 20 years.


My TT S line competition was a 2013. More on that car HERE: http://fourtitude.com/features/proj...ason-audi-tt-s-line-competition-series-index/

Okay, so on handling, the tail will come around as a result of the torque vectoring. The TT is not as aggressively programmed as the TTS and Hackenberg says the TT RS will be even more aggressively tuned in that department. My only beef with it is that it is a little surprising in its willingness to rotate... I don't know if I'd call it slightly unnatural, but I would call it a bit manufactured because I know what I expect from a TT and this was obviously more than that. You ask it to rotate and it does. I was sliding the tail around better than I should have been and it was more pronounced than I recall my sport differential S4 being.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

araemo said:


> Do you have any insight as to how this compares to the S3? Since they're the same platform, and both 's' models, I would hope that the S3 gets some/all of this software wizardry.. but I don't think I really felt it when I drove an S3.


They're both Haldex V, but I'm not sure about the ABS systems being identical. I'd have to check that. I asked Hackenberg specifically if there was a difference. I really get my first stab at the S3 next month so pardon my "book smart" status on that one. What he did say specifically is that the S3 does not roll down the road all-time all-wheel drive. The TT and TTS do. Does the S3 do torque vectoring... not braking at a given corner, but over-driving the inner wheels. The TT does this.

I believe the S3 and A3 may eventually move to that model, but they don't have it now. It's safe to say RS 3 will have this setup and likely launch it in the A/S/RS 3 range.

As I alluded to above, I don't know if the hardware is different. This brings interesting concepts alight though, whether you could just upload the TTS handling program to an S3. I'm sure the physics of the cars are different, but to be able to program in torque vectoring much like Haldex currently offers upgraded controllers for the current cars is a really interesting thing to consider.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> They're both Haldex V, but I'm not sure about the ABS systems being identical. I'd have to check that. I asked Hackenberg specifically if there was a difference. I really get my first stab at the S3 next month so pardon my "book smart" status on that one. What he did say specifically is that the S3 does not roll down the road all-time all-wheel drive. The TT and TTS do. Does the S3 do torque vectoring... not braking at a given corner, but over-driving the inner wheels. The TT does this.
> 
> I believe the S3 and A3 may eventually move to that model, but they don't have it now. It's safe to say RS 3 will have this setup and likely launch it in the A/S/RS 3 range.
> 
> As I alluded to above, I don't know if the hardware is different. This brings interesting concepts alight though, whether you could just upload the TTS handling program to an S3. I'm sure the physics of the cars are different, but to be able to program in torque vectoring much like Haldex currently offers upgraded controllers for the current cars is a really interesting thing to consider.


Thanks for the answers. If you get similar technical folks to bug when you get your S3 hands-on, I'd love to get more info.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

araemo said:


> Thanks for the answers. If you get similar technical folks to bug when you get your S3 hands-on, I'd love to get more info.


I'll definitely do this. We'll be driving that car for the first time while in TX for the Austin WEC race in a few weeks.


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*Thanks. Just noticed Hershey in your sig*



[email protected] said:


> My TT S line competition was a 2013. More on that car HERE: http://fourtitude.com/features/proj...ason-audi-tt-s-line-competition-series-index/
> 
> Okay, so on handling, the tail will come around as a result of the torque vectoring. The TT is not as aggressively programmed as the TTS and Hackenberg says the TT RS will be even more aggressively tuned in that department. My only beef with it is that it is a little surprising in its willingness to rotate... I don't know if I'd call it slightly unnatural, but I would call it a bit manufactured because I know what I expect from a TT and this was obviously more than that. You ask it to rotate and it does. I was sliding the tail around better than I should have been and it was more pronounced than I recall my sport differential S4 being.


I was born & raised in York.


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## BMWDAD (May 13, 2012)

The only available transmission for the U.S. version will be a six-speed dual-clutch automatic, and Quattro all-wheel drive will be standard. 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-audi-tt-first-drive-review


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

​


Vegas-RoadsTTer said:


> I was born & raised in York.


Central PA FTW.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

BMWDAD said:


> The only available transmission for the U.S. version will be a six-speed dual-clutch automatic, and Quattro all-wheel drive will be standard.
> 
> http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-audi-tt-first-drive-review


While that's likely, I don't think it's confirmed... though I could be wrong. Audi isn't giving an answer at this point. I sat next to the product manager on the plane and pressed him pretty hard. I suspect the decision has been locked in as much as it might be a year away from first product in market, but they wouldn't say. 

Jens was on the German wave, so he didn't speak to an American Audi representative. The American reviews (including ours) hit this morning and it'll be interesting to see if anyone else got any further information on this. It's possible that a German (likely Hackenberg) just spoke off the cuff... either unfiltered (so correct), but also possibly mistaken... not because Hackenberg is likely to be wrong, but the guy flies at 3,000 feet and sees the whole product range for all markets on a macro scale. That's a pretty nuanced detail on his radar (if it was him). I wish I knew his source for this. I have a few reasons to wonder if they might bring in an MT6... but everyone is being really coy and that even adds more fuel to my fire of wondering whether we'll get it.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

BMWDAD said:


> The only available transmission for the U.S. version will be a six-speed dual-clutch automatic, and Quattro all-wheel drive will be standard.
> 
> http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-audi-tt-first-drive-review


In Europe it is also "NOT" possible to get a quattro TT 8S with manual gearbox, FWD with manual, quattro with S-tronic.


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*0-60 in 5.3 is the same as the MK 2 TFSI*

According to APR dyno tests, the Mk 2 TFSI was grossly underspeced by Audi. The APR numbers show over 220 HP and 290 ft-lb. (I suspect this was a conscious decision by Audi to artificially widen the gap between the TFSI Mk 2 TT base and the TTS.) Unless the base Mk 3 engine is similarly underspeced, the engine is not much different, as evidenced by the identical 0-60 numbers. The Motor Authority reviewer names the Mk 3 base TT with S-line a "best buy" over the TTS for everyday driving, which was my opinion for the Mk 2. Though with the significantly higher HP for the Mk 3 TTS compared to the Mk 2 TTS, this conclusion surprises me.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

DSG only... why does Audi hate me so much?

Either the TTRS or B9 S5 it is, then.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

R5T said:


> In Europe it is also "NOT" possible to get a quattro TT 8S with manual gearbox, FWD with manual, quattro with S-tronic.


That may be, which would dictate what we get certainly. I drove an MT6 TTS and MT6 TDI ultra.


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