# Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx...



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

Hi Folks,
Have/running a Eurospec head? Post up please!
best regards,
Peter T.
Current List of Eurospec Head owners:
Atoson
85spraybomb
voxwagen88
bahnblitz
avwg60
Andrew Stauffer
Peter Tong
MkIIRoc
Stock77 
vwpieces
kenney83
Rage In The Machines
vwsnaps
gamblinfool
Prof315
chrisbmx68
victoreyestkt
Tinter
unconfirmed:
81dragrabbit1
honorary member with standard non custom cast rebuilt Eurospec head








dennis2society
bvillelounge
upoo2
MarkOne


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## The Quinner (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

Paging Mr. Stauffer...


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (The Quinner)*

Why thank you Mr Witting. Merry Christmas btw.








Peter, you know all about my set up. Definitely count me as a fan of these things. You don't see or hear of too many out there, however. Perhaps the high cost in the mostly low budget 8v world.......


_Modified by Andrew Stauffer at 6:19 AM 12-21-2006_


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

What's the scoop on them anyways?


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (speedtek40)*

here is the scoop (pic photo credit goes to avwg60)...








bottom is the stock 8v hydro counterflow head... top is the Eurospec head...


_Modified by Peter Tong at 1:16 PM 12-21-2006_


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_here is the scoop (pic photo credit goes to avwg60)... 
bottom is the stock 8v hydro counterflow head... top is the Eurospec head...

















where's the drool icon?








So are these an aftermarket head or a specialty VW unit?


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## 2.0 Ho (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (speedtek40)*

yah no kiddin whats up with those?!?!? that thing is ported like a biotch


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (speedtek40)*

As far as I understand it, these were custom cast with the race ports pretty much as is at one of the foundries that does the counterflow VW heads...


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## 2.0 Ho (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Thats what it looks like as i cannot see any brush marks whatsoever... so where do i pick one of those up


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (2.0 Ho)*

Here's their website. I don't see those particular head on the site anymore although they do say that more is available then is shown on the site.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

Another link:
http://www.eurospecsport.com/euro8vhead.htm 
Not exactly affordable these days...
Still... I wonder who all has one...


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## 2.0 Ho (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

good lord 3,250 for that sucker thats insane!!!


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (2.0 Ho)*

The basic versions of it were around $1000 or so during the mid 90's. That one is the rather worked over Stage 3 all out 8v head. I think these days the standard head is right around $2400... as I said kind of rare I would presume but you never know !


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## 2.0 Ho (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

yah but i dont see the massive performance of the eurospec head compared to someone doing a p&p on a head and getting bigger valves in there head for 1000... just doesnt make money sense to me... I could do all the work they did or have it done by someone for ALOT less the only difference is it wouldnt be cast


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (2.0 Ho)*

The Eurospec heads have extra metal cast in reinforcing the area surrounding the lifter bores. This makes it possible to run larger diameter lifters, and hence much higher lift cams (did you see the specs above - .59-.60" lift).


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## 2.0 Ho (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

but why not just bore out the ones on a stock head though too... i have seen it done before to run a larger cam that only a solid lifter head would be capable of...


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (2.0 Ho)*

I'm sure with enough work a stock head likely could be reworked to perform as well. 
As you can see it would require a heck of a lot of material removal. I do not know if there were other advantages - ie if portions of the casting were strengthened to compensate for the loss of material surrounding the ports.
At any rate - another other folks running this head?


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## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_
At any rate - another other folks running this head?

I know of one guy over in my usual forum. I've clued him in to this thread, so we'll see if he reports in or just wants to keep it hush-hush...


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## avwg60 (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Hey Peter, as per your request.
-Phil
Eurospec full race Stage 3, solid lifters.




I have it in my MK2 GTI.


This is my mechanic just before the install



_Modified by avwg60 at 4:22 AM 12-22-2006_


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## 2.0 Ho (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (avwg60)*
















That is rad... so where did you score that head? Didnt actually pay the full 3500 buckeroos did yah and how big of a difference did you notice once you got it on and running?


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

I spoke to somebody a long time ago about his Eurospec head. He had it flow tested and was disappointed at how small the flow difference was between a normal 8V and the ES. This is not to say that there was not a perceptible advantage, just that the difference in flow could easily be covered by a professional port job on a normal 8V head. 
There is such a thing as ports too large for a given valve size. I learned that VW diesel heads suffer from this condition (diffeent case, just an example.) I suspect that, to take advantage of the size of those Eurospec ports, you'd need overlapping intake and exhaust valves.
I don't see the advantage of running a .6" lift cam on an 8V head. As you know, flow increases rapidly from zero lift, then tapers as lift continues to increase. Most flowed 8V/10V heads I have seen are leveliong off after .450 lift or so, and flatten out around .5". Maybe a fully flowed Eurospec head with maxed out valves and a full race setup could take advantage of a .6" cam. I don't know. I have gotten to see only one ES head up close and personal, not installed. I have never used one or driven a car with one. I am just speaking from normal 8V experience with stock and ported heads.


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## 2.0 Ho (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Longitudinal)*

Well said. I could not have explained it better but that was part of the jist I was trying to get across. None the less a cool thing to have i think. or unique one could say


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## avwg60 (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: (2.0 Ho)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0 Ho* »_















That is rad... so where did you score that head? Didnt actually pay the full 3500 buckeroos did yah and how big of a difference did you notice once you got it on and running?

I bought it over in England and had it shipped to me in Toronto. It was about $4500cad.
The difference is enormous. The head I had before was an Oettinger G60 head. Oettinger uses a VW OEM cast and then ports and polishes and uses their own valves, stems, etc. The Oettinger head is still hydraulic and has original sized valves. This head was extremely smooth and civilized for a daily driven car but flowed really well. Very noticably better than stock. After selling the Oettinger to my friend and getting the Eurospec....... well, lets just say it has become a whole different animal altogether! I raced #6, G60Dano, on "The Official G60 Forum top whp list"(currently he's #10). We started from highway speeds and I came up so hard behind him that I had to swerve onto the side shoulder to avoid ramming into his rear bumper. This was in my Corrado which is extremely heavy.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Longitudinal)*

Hi Jonathan,
I really think that there was a wide variation in these heads with the less expensive entry level early vintage versions flowing less out of the box, not due to the port shape in the head itself but due to the early ones just having less work done to them out of the box. I had just the basics (valve unshroud, valve stem undercut, and backcut) done on mine and saw 22% flow gains in the midrange.
I do think that avwG60 is barely tickling his right now though.


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## avwg60 (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

I have a brand new G-lader from the dealership with a 68mm pulley and i get 8psi at 7000rpm redline. On the Oettinger head I got 14psi @ 7000.
That's flow!


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (avwg60)*

That is some flow! I was up around 12 psi in the midrange (around 4.5-5k) with my 54mm Lysholm pulley and stock intake manifold. I have no idea what it will be with the new setup.
These heads work ridiculously well with boost IMHO...


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## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

Yeah, whatever. Showoffs!


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

Add me to the list. . . Ill have some pics up shortly


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (bahnblitz)*

Added... thanks for letting us know... looking forward to pics.


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

2.0 ABA bottom end on weber 45's with electromtoive HP1 crank fired ignition


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## Gigante (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: (avwg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *avwg60* »_

Wow...which valve sizes?!


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

Dirty but fast as hell!\\





























_Modified by bahnblitz at 4:48 PM 1-4-2007_


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## avwg60 (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: (Gigante)*

42.5 intake
36 exhaust


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## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Re: (avwg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *avwg60* »_42.5 intake
36 exhaust

And they say size doesn't matter.








Added 12 HP and 12 FT/Lbs over the factory head with just a G-grind Cam. (~ 14% increase.)
Now I'm looking for another to find out what the oversized valves would do.


_Modified by voxwagen88 at 11:16 AM 1-20-2007_


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Back from the dead...
Just got mine today...
































I sleep with a gun under my pillow after seeing this cam...TT276 on the right for comparison


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

Thanks... I can see that somebody is going to be making some serious power soon..


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## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

dayum. I want one of those. Thanks for the pics.


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

I did have a question though for the experts...my head is machined for the shim under bucket lifters, and the springs they sent for the cam are larger OD than stock, so they don't fit in the stock spring seats. Are you not supposed to use spring seats with this setup?


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## 85spraybomb (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

add me to the list as well.
my new scirocco,that im picking up thursday has one.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (85spraybomb)*

How much do people pay for Eurospec heads these days?


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Anyone know who purchased deathhare's Eurospec head?
As an aside I think there are a few others that should be on this list.
Atoson for one...
Peter T.


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Okay I'm here!!!








I read through some of the posts regarding why would it be worth having one of these.
1) I bought this in 96 from an outfit in Southern Ca. $950 + S&H waited 3 1/2 weeks to get it.
2) EuroSpec was really trying to market was an Insurance offering to racer and weekend fly-boys.
3) It was a design that gave it extra everything, just like Wendy's burger add from the early 90's *Wheres the BEEF?* 
4) The water passages were redesigned so it wouldn't be breached if you went with the largest valves you can find and had wider opening along it's route for higher coolant volume flow.
5) Even the area were the stud for the idler pulley was beefed up so it could handle any radical ideas you can add to the weight (stress and tension)
6) The lifter bores were shaved properly so it would hold up from cracks and accommodate the tallest cam configuration.
7) I'm not sure but with all this beef, it had to be less heavier than the stock head.
8) Instead of starting from less of a head after it's been machined you start at measurement thicker than the OEM head because it's brand new casting.
9) I know it has thicker and longer valve guides.
10) Valve seats were more secured adding again insurance to stay put in case you install race springs in the future.
11) And finally you can truly say it's the only aftermarket head produced that didn't stick with any VW factory rules and stamped with a cool *EUROSPEC* on number 1 cylinder.


_Modified by atoson at 9:46 AM 6-5-2007_


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (atoson)*

I guess you are















Didn't you have two of these heads sometime in the past?


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_I guess you are















Didn't you have two of these heads sometime in the past?

Nope just one. I had two 4Motion kits at one time which I thought I 'd get stuck with.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by atoson at 3:34 AM 1-27-2009_


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## stock77 (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: (atoson)*

I also have a Eurospec head. I purchased mine in 1997 and have been running it since. I also altered it from its original state. My head now has 40 x 35 valves, Arrow 37mm shim-under bucket lifters, schrick springs and a basically mild .450 lift Web Cam. 
One thing we noticed about the new Eurospec head was that the intake ports were mirror polished. We actually scuffed those and did some match porting, etc. before its original install. 
In 1997 I had a normally aspirated CIS 2.0L 8V(Rabbit) that went 14.90 @ 92mph, so I believe it worked pretty well. 
I also agree that similar performance can be gained if the right person does your head work on a stock counter-flow head. However, we decided to try the head because it could be had for relatively cheap back then and we also purchased a crate-motor 2.0L ABA from Eurospec at the same time. So I got a brand new early ABA and the Eursospec head all at once. 
I also believe that higher than .450 lift can work well with the correct combination in an 8V head. CIS has always limited my ability to test that in my particular combination. 
In its current configuration the my motor responds very well to nitrous oxide. A standard old Autotech 40hp Kit, has netted me a best of 13.8 and 101.5 mph, with the 13.8 coming on the brakes during a bracket race. 
I think one of Peter Tong's charger kits would function quite well with a Eurospec head.
I'll quit rambling now. 


_Modified by stock77 at 6:52 PM 6-5-2007_


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*

I paid 1300 BNIB for a stage 3 full race on ebay. I think they retailed for 3500 or so. Guy sent me a 340* cam, and all parts to assemble. It was complete, but I had to put it together and set the lash, etc.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...44333
Beefy


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

Hi Kris, seeing as you have one of the castings without provisions for injectors I gather you will be needing to do something "special" if you decide to swap to EFI...


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Well, I can always place the injectors in the manifold. What's strange is that it has the bubbled area under the cam cover for the injectors, but they are not cut, drilled, and tapped on the outside. I'm sure someone would do it for the right price, but that's a little extreme.


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

The Audi 80 b3 4 cylinder engine will bolt right up and has the injector mounts right in the runners.


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## 85spraybomb (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

bump this up,and peter,if you see this,maybe you can gimme a good guesstimate on how much power my 8v setup has:
Engine/Drivetrain30k on motor)
Eurospec Head
Eurospec 272 Cam
Audi 3A Bottom End
Port&Polished Intake
Neuspeed Throttle Body
K&N Filter
Non A/C
Non P/S
Jacobs Ignition
Rapid Parts Blue Igniter Wires
Dual Outlet Exhaust Manifold
TT Race Downpipe
2" Stainless TT Exhaust w/Dynomax
1.8 Hydro Oil Pump
4k Tranny(11k on it)
Weighted Shifter Rod
Homemade Short Throw Shifter
yeh i know the shifter and stuff doesnt make a difference in power.
-Kenny


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (85spraybomb)*

Hi,
I'm not really a fan of estimates







Best thing to do would be to hit your local dynojet... I'm guessing the results would be in the quite good category however.
best regards,
peter T.


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## 85spraybomb (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

hmmm time to find a local dyno,and peter,you may actually remember the car,it belonged to Rocco_Phil from Virginia,thats who i bought it from.
he said he had originally planned on ordering one of your rotorcharger kits for this car,and to swap the motor in his nice 8v scirocco,but 700 bux exchanged hands,phil was on his way,and the car was mine,all mine.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (85spraybomb)*

I think I sold him (rocco_phil) some stuff a while back. Does your car have an 80% kit in it? Might have been someone different.
So who has the balls to chop one of these open? I heard from a very reliable source that some of them had problems with the ports cracking from being too thin. If mine gets wrecked beyond repairable, I might chop it up. It's going to be hard to drop that bandsaw, though








Oh, I stole your car and ran it on one of peter tong's new dyno's...


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_










What kind of dyno you running on that makes the torque and HP curves not cros @ 5252?


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## kenney83 (Apr 26, 2006)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*

""How much do people pay for Eurospec heads these days?""
$750 well that is how much i paid for my car and it has a eurospec head


_Modified by kenney83 at 10:11 PM 7-31-2007_


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (kenney83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kenney83* »_$750 well that is how much i paid for my car and it has a eurospec head

Great deal even if the rest of the car's trash....if what you say is true. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

I KNEW someone would say something, but I'm in the middle of doing a computer backup on DVD and didn't feel like waiting an hour for paint to open up again







Need to shovel more coal in the ol 'puter.
HAhaha...watchu talkin 'bout...that dyno looks pretty good to me, at least now












_Modified by MkIIRoc at 10:23 PM 7-31-2007_


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

LMAO








Bravo. *applauds*


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (85spraybomb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85spraybomb* »_hmmm time to find a local dyno,and peter,you may actually remember the car,it belonged to Rocco_Phil from Virginia,thats who i bought it from.
he said he had originally planned on ordering one of your rotorcharger kits for this car,and to swap the motor in his nice 8v scirocco,but 700 bux exchanged hands,phil was on his way,and the car was mine,all mine.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .


Ah... now I understand







For some reason or other quite a few folks with Eurospec heads run my A1 kits... I was hoping Phil's would join the stable, but you never know... sent you an IM with further details.
Peter T.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_So who has the balls to chop one of these open? I heard from a very reliable source that some of them had problems with the ports cracking from being too thin. If mine gets wrecked beyond repairable, I might chop it up. It's going to be hard to drop that bandsaw, though


















Now THAT is one interesting dyno chart








I heard the same from a guy that worked at Eurospec. Esp if you overtorqued the head bolts. I've not experienced that myself. Frankly, I installed the ARP studs, torqued it down with ARP moly lube to 65lb feet and haven't had a problem since.


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## 85spraybomb (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_I think I sold him (rocco_phil) some stuff a while back. Does your car have an 80% kit in it? Might have been someone different.
So who has the balls to chop one of these open? I heard from a very reliable source that some of them had problems with the ports cracking from being too thin. If mine gets wrecked beyond repairable, I might chop it up. It's going to be hard to drop that bandsaw, though








Oh, I stole your car and ran it on one of peter tong's new dyno's...










actually,im not sure if my car has an 80% or not,there might be some stuff in the car that im not aware of,but its a great auto-x car tho,i ran my 1st event 2 weeks ago,and now im hooked,its wayy too much fun.
now i was told from a friend in the scirocco forum to ditch the dual outlet mani and tt race downpipe,and order a header,he said that should net around 12hp,honestly,i think the exhaust flows well,but i wanted some other opinions,any ideas?
heres a video of it,camera wasnt picking up right for some reason,you'll see what i mean:


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (85spraybomb)*

For $750 thats an amazing steal... the head alone is worth that LOL... I noticed quite a difference with a Brospeed A1 header... at any rate nice car!


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## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

peter, how much boost are you running on your car that it only has 195 whp? and whats your compression ratio...?
just wondering because Im about to drop an 8.6:1 ABA into my car and put my "special" lysholm on it with my P&P head and larger valves, I would have expected at least 250 @ 15 psi, especially since I was running 215 bhp (190whp) before on 16 psi with a G60 with a cam and exhaust...


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (potatonet)*

Hi Jonathan,
9:1 CR, about 12 psi in the midrange. On that dyno run it made 185 whp just past 5k rpm, and it only climbed another 10 whp from 5.2k to 6.5k rpm so there was a problem which has since been hopefully fixed (dyno will tell).
CIS probably lops about 5-7 whp off the top as well, as well as being a restriction in fueling up top (for now - until I eak more fuel out of it!).
190 whp with a G60 - thats a very good G-lader result - please by all means send me the dyno chart so I can add it to the G60 whp list!
best regards,
Peter T.


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## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

wasnt a G-lader =-)


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (potatonet)*

Potato what's that black thingermajiiger pre-throttle body?


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## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

boost diverter valve =-)
its really a 2.5" pool valve that I dremmeled the **** out of, more reliable than electronics =-)
also its only there because I didnt want 650 cfm's going into my engine, that thing helps me keep it at about 490


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (potatonet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *potatonet* »_boost diverter valve =-)
its really a 2.5" pool valve that I dremmeled the **** out of, more reliable than electronics =-)
also its only there because I didnt want 650 cfm's going into my engine, that thing helps me keep it at about 490

Wonderful. I knew it didn't belong on an engine.















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

it belongs in my engine =-) I <3 my pool valve, keeps me away from melting pistons


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## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

will someone with a eurospec head please tell the the average diameter of the intake and exhaust valves on the manifold side. 
thanks =-)


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## The_Hamster (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: (potatonet)*

How'd you setup the pool valve to cutoff where you want it?


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## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (The_Hamster)*

its a 2.5" pool valve that just constantly bleeds boost (really ****ty way of doing it becuase I lose boost from 0 rpms)
but the supercharger has so much boost coming from it that it doesnt matter =-). 
Im going to install a 6" crank pulley to bring the boost quicker.
The ideal setup will be an electronic boost controller that just bleeds the rest of it off. the pool valve is only open about a crack right now, less area than a boost controller hose. If I close it I get boost way too fast and too much


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (potatonet)*

My spare head. Built by Eurospec with 42/35 standard valves, tapered guides, and ports spec'd to their brand name heads.


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## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

thanks... those are really big ports....


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## 85spraybomb (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (potatonet)*

bump this up.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (85spraybomb)*

Mines scheduled/in to be flowed on a SF600 this week... with and without manifold... both exhaust and intake.
btw, the Eurospec head has slightly bigger ports than the stock Audi 5kt manifolds...


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## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh peter thats what i base my porting on!!! damn man i was so disapointed with the euro spec i sold it for 300 and ran faster times with my own worked head the price to perfomance gain is not worth it http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif for eurospec


_Modified by hondaproof at 8:33 PM 9-9-2007_


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## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

how can you say such a thing...


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## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (potatonet)*

not trying to step on toes here i just would say that i was not impressed with the gain for the amount of money


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (hondaproof)*

Hey thats okay... no one said the Eurospec head was the end all be all of all counterflow heads








How much did you pay for it?


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## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

you would be pissed to know what i got it for but the price i sold it for knowing what they cost should hint that it wasnt much


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (hondaproof)*

I wouldn't be pissed about auto parts LOL...
Whoever bought it off you got a steal though.
Out of the box it flows quite decently. I haven't heard of many 40/33 heads flowing that much more... perhaps 5-10 cfm more max with the stock valve sizes on some of the hand ported heads.
With the 42/35mm valves i've heard of figures around 200 cfm which is pretty insane for a counterflow 8v head










_Modified by Peter Tong at 2:11 PM 9-10-2007_


----------



## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

yeah but man wooo 3200 is also insane but you guys are cutting good times with those heads maybe something was wrong with the one i had


----------



## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

I will test my 41/34 head soon, hoping for upper 100's


----------



## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

peter, whats the correct valve stem height from inside lifter well? my machinist is recutting my valves and we are getting a wierd value from the computer, it says 1.3 something inches... I dont think my valves are supposed to sit that low...


----------



## potatonet (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (potatonet)*

nvm we just used the spec from a golf and it tested fine.
Im really mad though, I forgot to buy valve stem keepers.... 4 days before I move.... with the car not together yet. get the keepers thurs, install friday... down to the wire...
what I dont believe is that not one car in the scrapyard was a MKIII, IV, or VR6... only stupid MKII's with 8mm valves... 

hope it doesnt mind the 300 mile freeway trip there (supposedly bad for break in?)










_Modified by potatonet at 9:47 PM 9-11-2007_


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Hi Guys,
Just had my Eurospec head (40/33 valves) retested on a Superflow 600...
Figures:
...............Intake.....................................Exhaust
Lift............CFM......................................CFM

.1.............57...........................................51
.2............108..........................................81
.3............142..........................................99
.4............155..........................................109
.45..........164..........................................112
.5............166..........................................115
This head goes back to Eurospec this coming week to see if a 42/35mm upgrade is feasible...
It will be reflowed with the 42/35mm valves when that happens...
I'll have two other 42/35 heads that will be getting flow tested as well in comparison... should be interesting.
regards,
Peter T.



_Modified by Peter Tong at 6:18 PM 9-20-2007_


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

This should be quite interesting, its all in the casting. I've been testing a few 8v heads scientificrabbit style and I've got a ITB head(stock non ported SCCA racing) that flows a tad better than a ported 8v head. Both solid lifter.
Thanks for sharing the data, its a great reference for everyones projects.
Cheers
ny_fam


----------



## 85spraybomb (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

bump this thread up.


----------



## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (85spraybomb)*

any updates on the head tests ?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (hondaproof)*

I rec'd the figures for my spare ported stock 42/35 head... 166cfm at .45", 126cfm at .45" on the exhaust side. These are with 8mm valve stems... if you follow the slope up it should see mid 170s at .5", but I only had it measured to max cam lift. My new manifold should show 1-2% loss according to the figures (won't be posting those however). I'll likely have the valves and stems worked over to improve mid range flow further.
The Eurospec head still needs to get sent in for the 42/35 upgrade...



_Modified by Peter Tong at 1:24 PM 11-12-2007_


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Thought I'd post up my Eurospec figures superimposed by some preliminary 42/35 figures...
I'm anticipating the spare 42/35 head will outflow the Eurospec in the midrange when things are done... tough though considering that the spare head has bigger intake ports than the eurospec. The valves have yet to be undercut down to 7mm in the area impinging in the ports...










_Modified by Peter Tong at 4:02 AM 11-16-2007_


----------



## FaTT mk1 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Ive got a eurospec 40/36 on my mk1 g60, made 274hp with 69mm pulley.
I know of one in ireland too running simular power but with a 63 pulley.


----------



## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

I got mine and just listed it for sale.. ;(


----------



## natsum (May 4, 2007)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (vwsnaps)*

Isn't it possible to get similar results from a worked over stock head for less $? Just wondering.


----------



## 85spraybomb (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (natsum)*

bump this up.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Most people are looking for a Eurospec head... I'm looking for a car to put mine on!


----------



## Rage In The Machines (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

got two, one I bought with a stage III job from Collin and the other I got for $40.00.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Rage In The Machines)*

Pics... we need pics









_Quote, originally posted by *Rage In The Machines* »_got two, one I bought with a stage III job from Collin and the other I got for $40.00.


----------



## Rage In The Machines (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

The stage 3 is on the car, but you are free to call Collin and ask about a Eurospec head he did in 94 that was sent to Hawaii. Back then they used BMW valves grinded down to fit the cylinderhead.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Rage In The Machines)*

Well folks looks like I should have my Eurospec head back soon... redone with 42/35 valves... thanks to TT. Flow figures should be interesting







but I'm really just looking forward to having it back on my car so I can give the Schrick 280 asymm solid cam a try...


----------



## GLi_Luva (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

I have 1.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...79655
Also have a prepped stock head done by E/S.










_Modified by GLi_Luva at 1:21 AM 7-10-2008_


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (GLi_Luva)*

Very sweet... a $50 junkyard find? That is ridiculous


----------



## GLi_Luva (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Very sweet... a $50 junkyard find? That is ridiculous









My girlfriend was pulling a 4K out of a GTI at the time. She kept yelling at me for help, but I wouldn't leave the motor.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (GLi_Luva)*

I don't blame you









_Quote, originally posted by *GLi_Luva* »_
My girlfriend was pulling a 4K out of a GTI at the time. She kept yelling at me for help, but I wouldn't leave the motor.


----------



## autopulse (Aug 11, 2007)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Hi Folks,
Have/running a Eurospec head? Post up please!


im 86.568999% positive that ive got one.. its at the machinist's right now, im having the internals removed and replaced into another 8v head.. when i get it back ill post up the results & verdict. 
EDIT: page 4 is under control


----------



## GLi_Luva (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

Bumpin it up!
Peter, any flow #'s on the 42.5/36mm valves? Using 7 or 8mm stems? Whos doing the work? I'd like to upgrade mine as well to take advantage of the massive sized ports.








I'm currently tearing my motor down and its getting poked and stroked to 2.2L, all ES goodies I finally get to put to use.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (GLi_Luva)*

Collin the old school VW wiz








7mm stems... my spare 42/35 head flowed 182 cfm with 8mm stems... As soon as I get the head back I'll have it flowed on the same flow bench for comparison purposes... I've also got the flow #s prior to the upgrade as well...
I'll also be reflowing my custom counterflow intake manifold with the upgraded head as well...
Nice to see another old school Eurospec head being put to good use








Peter

_Quote, originally posted by *GLi_Luva* »_Bumpin it up!
Peter, any flow #'s on the 42.5/36mm valves? Using 7 or 8mm stems? Whos doing the work? I'd like to upgrade mine as well to take advantage of the massive sized ports.








I'm currently tearing my motor down and its getting poked and stroked to 2.2L, all ES goodies I finally get to put to use.


----------



## GLi_Luva (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

Very nice! Any sneak peeks of the intake, or is that still under wraps?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (GLi_Luva)*

Under wraps until Andrew drags it








PS: a 2.2 counterflow 8v is going to rock


----------



## GLi_Luva (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Under wraps until Andrew drags it








PS: a 2.2 counterflow 8v is going to rock









I sure hope so.







Should be fun watching peoples faces in the rear view when a "girly" Cabby blows their doors off.








Oh, and I can still say "yeah, its just a 8V".


_Modified by GLi_Luva at 1:40 PM 7-25-2008_


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (GLi_Luva)*

Oh I know how that feels







A high power Cabby = ultimate sleeper









_Quote, originally posted by *GLi_Luva* »_
I sure hope so.







Should be fun watching peoples faces in the rear view when a "girly" Cabby blows their doors off.








Oh, and I can still say "yeah, its just a 8V".

_Modified by GLi_Luva at 1:40 PM 7-25-2008_


----------



## vwpieces (Apr 20, 2002)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

I think I have been on this list since day one. Had the head for about 5 years & finally getting it bolted to an engine. Stock JH valve size on mine. I did the head rebuild myself, new guides & cut the seats. Nothing special in the way of making it better. I also match ported the intake myself. 
























Done...








Intake


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (vwpieces)*

Well it looks like I'll get my upgraded 42/35 Eurospec head back soon folks... pics and flow bench results when I have them










_Modified by Peter Tong at 1:12 PM 8-22-2008_


----------



## GLi_Luva (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Well it looks like I'll get my upgraded 42/35 Eurospec head back soon folks... pics and flow bench results when I have them









_Modified by Peter Tong at 1:12 PM 8-22-2008_


Ah man, just HAD to raise my anxiety level now, DIDN'T ya.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (GLi_Luva)*

Well sorry








Actually I've heard rumours of the 42/35 Eurospec heads hitting 197cfm or thereabouts... so I'd like to actually flow mine (when it gets back) to put my own curiousity to rest.
My spare 42/35 solid lifter JH hand ported head (182cfm) had ports so hogged out that there was less than .2mm or so between the ports and the head bolt passages.


----------



## GLi_Luva (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Well sorry








Actually I've heard rumours of the 42/35 Eurospec heads hitting 197cfm or thereabouts... so I'd like to actually flow mine (when it gets back) to put my own curiousity to rest.
My spare 42/35 solid lifter JH hand ported head (182cfm) had ports so hogged out that there was less than .2mm or so between the ports and the head bolt passages.


Can't wait to see the #'s! What max lift are you having the head flowed to? Did you do any additional port work, or is it "as cast"?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (GLi_Luva)*

.55". As cast but with larger valves... new seats, etc...

_Quote, originally posted by *GLi_Luva* »_
Can't wait to see the #'s! What max lift are you having the head flowed to? Did you do any additional port work, or is it "as cast"?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*

Hi Folks,
I'll have my head back this coming week but in the meantime thought i'd post some pics of a Eurospec head illustrating some differences between the Eurospec heads and the stockers... and the newer style 42/35 valves... that Andrew S and myself had our heads upgraded to...
35mm exhausts with 7mm stems, 42mm backcut intakes w 7mm stems, undercut down to about 6.5mm... all I can say is that these should really rock
















Filled in Lifter "galley":








Can these heads hit 190-200 cfm? Should be interesting to see what the #s are.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Someone in massachusets has a eurospec now, sold my spare one


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

hi Kris,
I don't think 200 cfm with the stock Eurospec ports is possible... it does beat out my ported to the hilt 42/35 spare head though... the figures for that are up there, but are with the valve guide completely ground away...
As you can see there is a bit of a gain from the backcut on the spare head...


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

I had my fingers crossed


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

160cfm at .4", 170 cfm at .45", and 176 cfm at .5" is still nothing to sneeze at... about a 35% gain in flow over the stocker JH head at .4" lift...
I can say though that the original low lift #s in the EC Eurospec head article appear to be bogus...


----------



## dennis2society (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Is this the same outfit? 
cuz this is where I got my europspec hydro heads/G grind & Tall gear/transmission from......and they're nearby......








http://www.eurospecsport.com/p...s.htm 
http://www.eurospecsport.com/p...s.htm 
Engine pic when it arrive at my house a couple of years ago.......








Love it! It has a great powerband when going up them hills.











_Modified by dennis2society at 11:11 PM 1-20-2009_


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (dennis2society)*

Same company, but the link you provided is for the standard rebuilt heads. The performance heads varied in price with the race heads around $3500 or so.
This weekend during my rebuild, I found I mis-measured when I first bought my head. I have 36mm exhaust valves in mine.


----------



## dennis2society (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_Same company, but the link you provided is for the standard rebuilt heads. The performance heads varied in price with the race heads around $3500 or so.








.....man even with the standard hydro head which I got with a G grind/adj cam, I still got my moneyz worth, since in my opinion gave better performance than the oe mechanical head. which cracked between the valves with a mileage of 280k......


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (dennis2society)*

I picked up one with my race car that I bought with a LOT of extra goodies: http://forums.ncdubs.org/showthread.php?t=12635
It needs some TLC (piston ring dinged up the CC pretty good) but I hope to have it installed on my aba rabbit in a month or two if the repairs aren't too pricey. The exhaust valves were difficult to remove (burrs on them) so maybe it will get some large vales as it is only 40mm & 33mm.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

If you run out of patience with it, let me know. I'm looking for a new project.


----------



## 531sb2 (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

There's one on Ebay right now.


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (531sb2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *531sb2* »_There's one on Ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...orted

Watching


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Hi Folks,
Have/running a Eurospec head? Post up please!


We have 2 on a pair of SCCA GT Lite Sciroccos. Extremely nice heads and so much more than just a ported stock head. They optimized EVERYTHING when compared to a stock head. We also had a Drake head, very very nice but still not the same.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Eurospec 8v head rollcall... post if you have one thx... (Prof315)*

Added!


----------



## Tom A (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Hi Guys,
Just had my Eurospec head (40/33 valves) retested on a Superflow 600...
Figures:
...............Intake.....................................Exhaust
Lift............CFM......................................CFM

.1.............57...........................................51
.2............108..........................................81
.3............142..........................................99
.4............155..........................................109
.45..........164..........................................112
.5............166..........................................115

Hi Peter, I know it has been a while, but do you remember if this head had standard 8mm Stem valves, or if there was any back/under cutting done?
Do you know if anyone has measured the flow improvement of using 7mm valves over 8mm?
Thanks,


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Tom A)*

This one had backcut intakes, and exhausts, undercut 8mm intake stems, and valve unshroud.
I'll have to look over my flow testing spreadsheets to see what the difference was... but compared to the "stock" Eurospec... IIRC the gain was something like 20% in the midrange... tapering off towards the top. I think true 7mm stems would allow you to keep more of that on the top end...


----------



## Tom A (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Thanks Peter, did you ever post the flow numbers for the "stock" Eurospec head? 
This is a Hijack, but I am trying to figure out how much flow I really need for my 1.8 road racing engine. I am punching my numbers in to the demo version of Engine Analyzer Pro, with the only variable being the actual flow of the head, using what real world data I can find. I am assuming at some point the ports would be too large and port speed will hurt torque, but so far I am not seeing it. Maybe because the intake tract is so short with Webers, it isn't as big a problem as some other configurations.
I have punched in the stock and ported numbers that SCCH posted on their before/after graph, plus the Eurospec numbers you listed, then put in some theoretical(impossible?) heads using your flow numbers plus 10% and 20%. Low end torque only drops 1 or 2 ft/lbs below 5K RPM, but peak TQ and HP keep going up. I am not sure this is correct.
The only drop in TQ I really see is from the stock head any of the ported ones. The dropoff is fairly sharp below 4000 RPMs, 8-10 ft/lbs less for the ported heads from stock. All the ported heads I ran through the program were within 1-2 ft-lbs down low, but with each improvement in port flow making progressively more torque and power above 5000.
I am curious how well this simulation software reflects reality.
For what it's worth, the program thinks that a 1.8L with 10.5:1 compression, 45mm side draft Webers, open TT Header and a 308º/.452"/102º lobe center cam will make at the crank:
Stock [email protected] 118 ft/[email protected]
SCCH [email protected] 129 ft/[email protected]
Your [email protected] 136 ft/[email protected]
I don't think those numbers look too unrealistic, based on some of the dyno sheets I have seen.
Thanks,


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Tom A)*

Hi Tom,
Keep in mind that the dual weber carb manifolds flow less than 150 cfm when you bolt them into the head... still better than the stocker manifolds however, but they cut off some flow up top... you can get them to flow with zero loss up top, but you have to hog them basically to nothing lol...
I've got to test mount one of my twin screw kits tonight onto the mockup motor for a customer, and then 1000 grit polish everything, but after that I'll run your #s and see what I come up with...
In the meantime... what are your cam opening times (in degrees)... for both intake and exhaust at .050"? Valve size (intake and exhaust), and if you have it the valve seat diameter to valve size ratio (85% or 90%?)... also if you could give me your runner length (bell mouth to backside of valve).
I had an zero loss (cfm wise) 8v intake all designed up to sell but given the # of hard core 8v folks out there... I've held off...
Here are the latest figures though for my head:








stock Eurospec vs. after backcut, undercut, and unshroud...








Hope this helps... Peter T.


_Modified by Peter Tong at 7:45 PM 6-18-2009_


----------



## Tom A (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Hi Tom,
Keep in mind that the dual weber carb manifolds flow less than 150 cfm when you bolt them into the head... still better than the stocker manifolds however, but they cut off some flow up top... you can get them to flow with zero loss up top, but you have to hog them basically to nothing lol...
Yeah, I will have it ported to match the head, planning getting them both done at the same time.

_Quote »_I've got to test mount one of my twin screw kits tonight onto the mockup motor for a customer, and then 1000 grit polish everything, but after that I'll run your #s and see what I come up with...
Cool, thanks. I really appreciate that.

_Quote »_In the meantime... what are your cam opening times (in degrees)... for both intake and exhaust at .050"? Valve size (intake and exhaust), and if you have it the valve seat diameter to valve size ratio (85% or 90%?)... also if you could give me your runner length (bell mouth to backside of valve).
The cam is 266º @ .050", Cam Card here: http://www.shedracing.net/misc/camcard.jpg I am trying to keep the engine internals SCCA F-Prod legal, so that limits me to stock 40mm/33mm valves. I think it would be foolish not to switch over to 7mm stems.
Unfortunately I do not have any of the other measurements. The Webers and heads are at my friends house with the car, the manifold is here, and none of it is assembled. I was trying to determine how big I should go on the porting, but from looking at the flow numbers and the results from the engine program and real world dyno results http://www.gofastnews.com/boar....html I don't think low speed torque loss is as big of a deal as I thought it was. From the looks of things, for my application I don't think I can go too big. The gain up top more than offsets the loss down low.

_Quote »_I had an zero loss (cfm wise) 8v intake all designed up to sell but given the # of hard core 8v folks out there... I've held off...
Unfortunately that is probably wise. Pretty limited market.

_Quote »_Here are the latest figures though for my head:

Wow, the backcut, undercut 40/33 kicks butt at low lifts, more than a similarly prepped +2 head, and it doesn't give up much at high lift.

_Quote »_stock Eurospec vs. after backcut, undercut, and unshroud...

The restriction of that intake manifold is horrible. 

_Quote »_Hope this helps... Peter T.
It does, thank you.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Tom A)*

Yours #s are reasonably close although the torque is too high for your Eurospec figures... with 42/35 I see about a 6% increase in torque right around 5200 (to around 126 lb ft at 5k with a dip at 5.2k and then back to that same value at 5.5k), and a 12% gain up top by going 42/35... gains from the 42/35 start at right around 4250. I ran mine with 9:1 compression (by mistake)... I'll run them again tonight with 10.5:1 cr.... that cam seems to be a pretty good one from what I can tell... you are right... at full throttle not too much loss in low end torque... although I think that cam is much better suited for a 42/35 head (allows the engine to utilize the extra breathing capacity up top that the larger valves give). A 42/35 head doesn't seem to give much benefit until 4250 or so...

_Quote, originally posted by *Tom A* »_Thanks Peter, did you ever post the flow numbers for the "stock" Eurospec head? 
This is a Hijack, but I am trying to figure out how much flow I really need for my 1.8 road racing engine. I am punching my numbers in to the demo version of Engine Analyzer Pro, with the only variable being the actual flow of the head, using what real world data I can find. I am assuming at some point the ports would be too large and port speed will hurt torque, but so far I am not seeing it. Maybe because the intake tract is so short with Webers, it isn't as big a problem as some other configurations.
I have punched in the stock and ported numbers that SCCH posted on their before/after graph, plus the Eurospec numbers you listed, then put in some theoretical(impossible?) heads using your flow numbers plus 10% and 20%. Low end torque only drops 1 or 2 ft/lbs below 5K RPM, but peak TQ and HP keep going up. I am not sure this is correct.
The only drop in TQ I really see is from the stock head any of the ported ones. The dropoff is fairly sharp below 4000 RPMs, 8-10 ft/lbs less for the ported heads from stock. All the ported heads I ran through the program were within 1-2 ft-lbs down low, but with each improvement in port flow making progressively more torque and power above 5000.
I am curious how well this simulation software reflects reality.
For what it's worth, the program thinks that a 1.8L with 10.5:1 compression, 45mm side draft Webers, open TT Header and a 308º/.452"/102º lobe center cam will make at the crank:
Stock [email protected] 118 ft/[email protected]
SCCH [email protected] 129 ft/[email protected]
Your [email protected] 136 ft/[email protected]
I don't think those numbers look too unrealistic, based on some of the dyno sheets I have seen.
Thanks,




_Modified by Peter Tong at 4:39 PM 6-19-2009_


----------



## Whatscrackin57 (Aug 27, 2003)

I lost compression in s couple of cylinders and the machinist said my exhaust valves are bent. I checked the website bu did not see 36mm heads with 8mm stems. Where can i find a replacement? Can i only get them from eurospec?


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

I talked to eurospec about 3 months ago, and they no longer carry those valves. I ran into the same problem. I used some of my spare valves and wanted to replenish the stock only to find out they don't carry them anymore.


_Modified by MkIIRoc at 5:25 PM 6-19-2009_


----------



## Tom A (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Yours #s are reasonably close although the torque is too high for your Eurospec figures... with 42/35 I see about a 6% increase in torque right around 5200 (to around 126 lb ft at 5k with a dip at 5.2k and then back to that same value at 5.5k), and a 12% gain up top by going 42/35... gains from the 42/35 start at right around 4250. I ran mine with 9:1 compression (by mistake)... I'll run them again tonight with 10.5:1 cr.... that cam seems to be a pretty good one from what I can tell... you are right... at full throttle not too much loss in low end torque... although I think that cam is much better suited for a 42/35 head (allows the engine to utilize the extra breathing capacity up top that the larger valves give). A 42/35 head doesn't seem to give much benefit until 4250 or so...

Looks like we got pretty similar results. All the configurations I ran the HP traces were really close up to 4500. The Torque numbers were not as close, but close enough at any engine speed I care about that any bottom end loss from larger ports is pretty meaningless.
If you have a chart for the exhaust flow numbers like the intake one above, I would like to see it.
If you are curious, here are the charts that Engine Builder Pro shat out:
http://www.shedracing.net/imgmisc/ebp_charts.jpg
The curves are a little blocky, since I only ran it for 500 RPM intervals. The table also lists the numbers for the made-up heads I ran with 10 and 20% higher flow, but I left them off the graph.
I also ran a couple with increased compression, and the change wasn't as much as I expected.
I expect with a properly ported head with 7mm stems I can get numbers in the same neighborhood as your 40/33 Eurospec, and I would be quite happy with that power. I do like that the peak is under 7000 RPMs, I want this engine to last a while. It would make more power with 42/35, but more power=more stress=less reliability.
Shopping around for a place to do the work, 
I emailed these guys almost 2 weeks ago, so far no reply: http://www.usrallyteam.com/ind...age=2
I emailed Bildon as well, they list head porting on their site here: http://www.bildon.com/catalog/about/CylHead.cfm but I am not sure they are still doing machine work.
I also got a referral from a couple racer buddies for this guy, he is local to me. Not a specific VW guy, but he comes well recommended: http://www.bo-port.com/index.html
I haven't contacted SCCH yet.

_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_I talked to eurospec about 3 months ago, and they no longer carry those valves. I ran into the same problem. I used some of my spare valves and wanted to replenish the stock only to find out they don't carry them anymore.

Do they do head work? I don't see any mention of services on their site. They aren't far from here.
Kris, do you have flow numbers for your head? Since you are moving away from the 8v, I'll give you $100 and a case of Corona for your engine.....








Or I can loan you a set of Toyos and you can put it on a real racetrack ( http://www.thunderhill.com )


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Tom A)*

Hi Tom, 
I'll rerun the #s... and spit it out to a graph.
How soon do you need that head? I have a local contact that has been porting heads for decades that might be able to convince to do his magic on an 8v for you... the SF600 the above results are from are off his machine... the reason I ask... is that he is rather busy...


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## Tom A (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Not in a hurry at all, hopefully in the next few months though. I got "downturned" a couple months ago, so the race budget kind of dried up.
Actually, I don't need a graph, if you just have it as a text file (or excel spreadsheet) that would be fine, if that is easier. If you want, you can email it to me, tom dot aiken at gmail dot com.
Whatever is easiest.
Just curious, what does your local guy get for a porting job? Has he done any 8V VWs that you are aware of?
Thanks,


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Tom A)*

I'll have to ask... I've got a spare JH head lying around that I was considering just paying him to have worked over to see what he could do... he flowed both the spare 42/35 head and the Eurospec (before and after 42/35 upgrade)... and he found ways they could be improved...


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (Tom A)*

I don't have any flow numbers, sorry. Some day I'll get some. I raised the port roofs to a bertils style port job and matched the intake the last time I had it apart, which combined with the new cam put down 30 more whp.
Thanks for the offer... near irresistable haha. I don't think this thing will handle too good!
It's staying 8v...I had an early mid life crisis. Decided to buy a tig welder and plasma cutter instead. Something I can actually use down the road.








"If you are curious, here are the charts that Engine Builder Pro shat out:"
Sounds messy...ewwww.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (G60ING)*

Eurospec head injector bungs forsale see chrisbmx68 in this thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4714627


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Yea I have G60ING's old head now so I guess our names can be swapped on the list.


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## Shrttrackr (Oct 13, 2004)

i have a line on a Eurospec head 42/35 valves but it has worn lifter bores and needs to be mahcined to 37mm buckets. he wants 300 plus shipping. is this worth it?
or if anyone is interested in it, i can put you in touch with the seller.
Craig


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

thats dirt cheap, someone should snatch that up. If i wasn't broke id buy it just to have.


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

PM'd you.
Steve-


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (BSD)*

updated the list chris and add Tinter to it as well


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## gamblinfool (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Guess I should chime in as I just found this thread. I bought GLi_Luva's Eurospec crate motor. I suspect it's the base model, but maybe one day I'll get it massaged by Collin...
Px4clx:


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

snap a pic of the underside so we can see the valves, looks like stock lifters


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Jarod at scch just finished up with my head
welded up damaged cc reshaped by hand then decked 
supertech 42x35 valves, ti retainers, hd springs, Shim under lifters, web cams 316 degree .500 lift


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

gamblinfool said:


> Guess I should chime in as I just found this thread. I bought GLi_Luva's Eurospec crate motor. I suspect it's the base model, but maybe one day I'll get it massaged by Collin...
> Px4clx:


Other than bigger valves what massaging is there to do? We flowbenched ours and with stock size valves flow numbers were still going up at .600" lift! It ain't broke, don't try to fix it.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

supervee heads are the only thing better than these, the ports are massive and usually raised to give as straight a shot as possible to the valve


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

chrisbmx68 said:


> supervee heads are the only thing better than these, the ports are massive and usually raised to give as straight a shot as possible to the valve


Got 2 of them as well and the eurospec head flows better.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

What supervee heads do you have? Id love some pics


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## Whatscrackin57 (Aug 27, 2003)

After 11 years I think I'm ready to call it quits. This damn motor breaks everything. Just had it refreshed with new exhaust valves and was wondering how much do these heads fetch?. Mine is a full on stage 3 head with about 10k miles on it before the refresh.


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## BIGSAMO1 (Jun 11, 2008)

*Add me to the list*

Picked this eurospec head up, doing down draft carbs on it, not sure what stage it is. Also I might be selling it getting rid of my project. . Call or txt also (909)327-6169 it's also port and polished


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

well its a solid lifter head which is good because they dont make them anymore. It looks like it has stock size valves, and a cam with a good amount of lift but not a ton of duration, maybe an autotech 288? Also looks like its been running pretty lean lol


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## BIGSAMO1 (Jun 11, 2008)

chrisbmx68 said:


> well its a solid lifter head which is good because they dont make them anymore. It looks like it has stock size valves, and a cam with a good amount of lift but not a ton of duration, maybe an autotech 288? Also looks like its been running pretty lean lol


I do not know what cam is in it, lol how much do think just this head alone is worth? 
Thanks


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

its hard to say depends how bad someone is looking for one. I paid 200 for one with stock size valves and significant damage. It might be worth around $600 if you can find the right buyer.


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## BIGSAMO1 (Jun 11, 2008)

chrisbmx68 said:


> its hard to say depends how bad someone is looking for one. I paid 200 for one with stock size valves and significant damage. It might be worth around $600 if you can find the right buyer.


Thanks bud


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## MusicCityGTI (Feb 19, 2004)

Pls add me to the list. Just received my Eurospec solid lifter 42/35 head in the mail today!!! 

It will sit on top of my freshly built 2.0 ABA block with forced induction provided by Peter Tong's twin screw setup. 

My current set ('83 GTI, fresh ABA block, hydro head, g60 cam, lysholm charger, megasquirt, restrictive exhaust with cat) resulted in 180 wtq and 160 whp with 12.0 afr. Hopefully the Eurospec head and more aggressive cam will help produce even more power. Time will tell. 

I'll report back once the new head is bolted up and I have it back on the dyno.


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## redpig (Mar 29, 2004)

Just picked this up. Already had the valve cover, this is what it most likely will look like in my 79 rocco


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

looking good man! hope to see it out this season


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## Mark0ne (May 19, 2012)

Not sure on the valve sizes haven't measured yet, the ports have been opened up a bit, 3 angle valve grind, 268* tt cam, etc...


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## Mark0ne (May 19, 2012)

Ohh and the followers look to be a lot larger, sorry for the pic, you can't really see. If anyone could give me some more info on this head that would be great. Thanks


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## bahnblitz (Jan 18, 2002)

Updated video of mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_8CudbZZT8


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## upoo2 (Dec 7, 2005)

I have one! 

For sale too


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## bvillelounge (Jan 28, 2003)

I have one, just finished the build. It did 140hp on the dyno. There is a thread in the NA forum.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

updated the list!

man alive i am not really on here much anymore... perhaps once every 6 months or so. Nice to see some folks running these things still


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## !lowballer! (Nov 15, 2012)

I am looking for one of these for my engine build. If anyone has one or knows someone that wants to sell one please let me know. Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 1987FrankenCabby (Jul 21, 2015)

Late to the party, but hey I just found this piece in the scrap yard for $40!!!! Had a burned exhaust valve. Just threw new valves and guides in it. Running like a beast!


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

so? how are those Eurospec heads running these days? ))))


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## !lowballer! (Nov 15, 2012)

Still looking for one. I wish I knew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Yaaaaay, Peter's back!


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## scirocco s (Feb 15, 2003)

Funny- Just found this thread- I've had mine since 1996! Still running great- It has had two valve jobs - I think the seats/sleeves slipped once. I had the full Eurospec long block installed (back when i was young and dumb with credit cards  )

Never put it on a dyno - but i'm guessing 140-150hp? ??


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## thegave (Dec 22, 2008)

I still want one


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

so how are those Eurospec heads running?


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## firewall (Jun 17, 2008)

Running


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## OGVW (Sep 24, 2001)

I know its a longshot but does anyone have one of these Eurospec heads for sale? Building a throwback stroker MK2 GTI and would love to have this part on it.


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## Campbell (Nov 9, 2004)

I have one on a built stroker.. check the engine classifieds


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