# Engine Movement Off Throttle



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

I just spent $1000 (p&l) on BFI Stage 1 engine mounts about 2 weeks ago. My expectations were that they would (nearly) eliminate engine movement on hard acceleration / deceleration. They were re-torqued after 200 miles.

While engine movement is decreased somewhat, the engine still moves quite a bit under very specific conditions: 



 3rd or 4th Gear
 Peak Torque
 Deceleration


In other words, I'm accelerating hard in 4th gear @ 5K and take my foot *off throttle*... bump! You can feel that engine (or some other large object) moving back into position. Does it every time. If all 3 conditions are not present it will not move.

FWIW, I've got a turbo-charged Golf 2.5 MK6 w/ SRI that's running ~ 265 ft lbs @ peak torque.

I just ordered a new torque arm insert (mine's a bit old), but doubt that'll solve this. Yes, I can put Stage 2 inserts into the mounts, but have you experienced the vibrations on just the Stage 1 mounts??? (That would make it DD hell.)

Thoughts?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Hpa puck. I have the 85 I think

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

Thanks. Ordered a 90.

[... endless mods ...]


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

OldPhart said:


> Thanks. Ordered a 90.
> 
> [... endless mods ...]


Can you report if the puck eliminates the remaining movement when it has been installed?


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I have the 034 upper and lowers with a bsh dogbone and it took a lot more engine movement out than i thought it would have.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

killerbunny said:


> Can you report if the puck eliminates the remaining movement when it has been installed?


Will do


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Mount Update*



killerbunny said:


> Can you report if the puck eliminates the remaining movement when it has been installed?


So here's the update:

Let me start by saying the puck increased the cabin vibrations significantly, but they've calmed down after ~ 5 days. The shifts are nice & true. A surprising improvement is the engine feels & sounds smoother / tighter when revving. Overall, nice upgrade for the $$$.

Unfortunately, movement is still a problem. The HPA puck has reduced "engine movement" some - but it's still far too excessive for me. I put "engine movement" in quotes because after installing BFI & HPA mounts I do not believe the remaining movement is related to the engine.

I can now feel a distinct double movement coming off 4th gear, like big bump ... little bump. 3rd is still the most pronounced. (There's actually some movement down in 2nd & 1st.)

Any opinions on movement coming from the *Clutch or Transmission*??? [*** Deceleration Only]


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks for the review. For your issue, what type of clutch do you have? Is it a sprung clutch?

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

killerbunny said:


> Thanks for the review. For your issue, what type of clutch do you have? Is it a sprung clutch?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using Android_


Stock clutch - not sure if spring


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

So, you are saying that the car bumps when you get off the gas after a hard acceleration. That sounds normal to me. If you are saying you feel something in the car moving like that, my best suggestion would be to take the hood off and video it to see what is happening. 

I am in the 260whp range also and feel the entire car bump when I get off the car hard, but that is just the motor trying to slow the car down and compressing all the rubber bushing everywhere. Well at least thats what it feels like. 
I have BFI Stage 2 mounts and my motor barely moves at all. You can see the video of it on there website.


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> So, you are saying that the car bumps when you get off the gas after a hard acceleration. That sounds normal to me. If you are saying you feel something in the car moving like that, my best suggestion would be to take the hood off and video it to see what is happening.
> 
> I am in the 260whp range also and feel the entire car bump when I get off the car hard, but that is just the motor trying to slow the car down and compressing all the rubber bushing everywhere. Well at least thats what it feels like.
> I have BFI Stage 2 mounts and my motor barely moves at all. You can see the video of it on there website.


It's certainly possible the movement (of whatever) is normal, but ... having all three mounts upgraded, I am confident it's not engine play. My guess is when I went turbo, lots of things got abused and loose: clutch, diff, bolts, etc.

I'm already scheduled to be @ AP Tuning (PA) in 2 weeks to swap the final drive / ring & pinion (.365 to .338). They'll check out the whole drive train to make sure nothing's loose. A clutch upgrade is eventual, I had just hoped to wait til next spring.

Any other thoughts are welcome, and I'll let you know if this gets resolved


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I guess I was more so talking about rubber bushings in the suspension. When the motor slows the wheels down it preloads the bushings, then they spring back then preload with less force, repeat. Just a thought though. As long as you are upgrading things, through some high durometer control arm bushings on there, and see if that changes anything. 
You will have a race car by the end of this im sure. haha.

Good luck figuring it out. :beer:


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> I guess I was more so talking about rubber bushings in the suspension. When the motor slows the wheels down it preloads the bushings, then they spring back then preload with less force, repeat. Just a thought though. As long as you are upgrading things, through some high durometer control arm bushings on there, and see if that changes anything.
> You will have a race car by the end of this im sure. haha.
> 
> Good luck figuring it out. :beer:


Good call on the bushings, but covered that last year: front control arms, rear trailing arms, anti-lift kit. I'm stinking more it's something heavy or bolts that hold something heavy.

Will post in a few weeks - for good or bad.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Check your dogbone mount.

If its just an insert, its probably in pieces (mine dryed out and cracked into a billion pieces). If its an HPA puck or something like that, make sure its tightened to the correct torque and that it is fully seated and still in one piece (some people have reemed the bolt hole out of them over time).

It sounds like you're just lifting too hard off the gas and not compensating for rev hang. If you lift all the way off the gas then yes, the motor flops around and if the rev hang kicks off at the worst time boom, motor flopping around like a fish.

Welcome to front wheel drive cars.... :laugh:

Do you get any wheel hop when launching? Like rapid bad axle snapping machine gun rattling wheel hop?

There's two ways to drive a FWD car wrong. 1.) lifting off the gas completely, 2.) downshifting in the apex of a turn. Doing these things will make the trans/motor move since its tied to front suspension, and not in a good way:facepalm:


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

Ran across something that I think might help, I know on mkv gti, passats etc . there have been issues of the subframe moving a lot, it sounds similar to your issue. The cause of this is the bolts that are used to hold the subframe stretch over time. I think I may be currently having this issue too. These are some links about the issue:

This is a TSB about adding a shim:

http://nateronline.com/Technical_Bulletins/2007.04.02_front_suspension_knocking_noise_ALL.pdf

Also people add an upgraded bolt, the part number is: N90823501 

This is a thread about the issue:

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127922

This is a more comprehensive thread about the problem:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4467071

I know you have a MK6 so it might be different, but this might be something worth looking into when your car is back at aptuning. I hope one of the links helps you out.

This might be a more complete solution for subframe issues:

http://www.tyrolsport.com/index.php?p=product&id=411&mobile=0


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## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

killerbunny said:


> Ran across something that I think might help, I know on mkv gti, passats etc . there have been issues of the subframe moving a lot, it sounds similar to your issue. The cause of this is the bolts that are used to hold the subframe stretch over time. I think I may be currently having this issue too. These are some links about the issue:
> 
> This is a TSB about adding a shim:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the robust help man. Just got back from AP Tuning, so maybe next year.

Meanwhile, tchilds has a great observation = don't jump off throttle completely w/ FWD, or bump!

Since winter is around the corner, I won't be getting much engine movement for awhile anyhow 

Thanks guys.


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

So how do you like the .338 final drive/ring & pinion ?


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