# EFR Anatomy



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Its that time of the year and I've been knee deep in tax papers. Unfortunately, a busy work schedule has me pushing paperwork off to the side until just about the very last moment...for months . Anyways, having the need for a break and curious for the last week about a Borg Warner box sitting by my desk, I decided to forgo the coffee break and just go into my garage to snap some pics...

EFR 6758 w/ a GTX3071R comparo

This is how the BW comes out of the box










This turbo has a 6 blade compressor wheel.










Comp housing w/ DV removed










Here is the very simple DV unit. I've seen these over a decade ago on something else, I cant recall what...










Turbine wheel comparison. The blades on the turbine are thicker but do seem lighter. TiAL is brittle at room temperature so needs the beefiness...










Top view.. The size scale is a little skewed as the BW is definitely longer. Just showing profiling and design...










Turbine housing comparo. Again, the BW has a very long discharge which skews the scale. But they are very similar in size and I would think volume.










Backside










I have to say, this makes me want to forget about external gating










Again...










Angled merge out of the Inlet throat area.










BW left GTX71R right










Side view










Just for giggles, I laid the GTX comp over the 6758 inducer and its pretty much identical in diameter










Vice Versa










With a few modifications and boring, the FSI D valve fits










With some turbine flange machining on our end, we'll match it to our manifold setups and test it out.










With some mods to the comp housing


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

jumping right in! :beer:


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## viperdsa (Nov 28, 2007)

Plan on doing any testing with something bigger than a 6758? Like a 7064


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

absolutely. These will be tested systematically as the time allows. We are moving into a new shop shortly and will have to take our mustang dyno out of storage and set it all up in the very near future. But in the meantime, it will go into my B7 within the next few weeks and testing a new LPFP controller w/ built in meth controller 

I have two BWS 2011 catalog/tech manual which charts two different HP ranges this turbo is supposed to cover. Whether its 450hp or 500hp. Based on the measurements, I would say it will lean more towards the 500hp range. We'll see. Good response which will give you nice powerband and nothing to lose up top will be the aim.


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## viperdsa (Nov 28, 2007)

Just when I was thinking about piecing together an EFR kit lol. Any idea how much the price difference would be over your normal GT kits?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Kit pricing will depend on turbo of course. There are some mods to be made if ppl want to keep their oem dv's and n75 and such intact, but not far off at all.


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I have two BWS 2011 catalog/tech manual



http://www.turbodriven.com/files/pdf/BWTS_2011_Catalog_SMALL.pdf

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/prod_imgs/installation/ul/install-38.pdf

:beer:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Yes, there you go. Comparison chart states 500hp and item description states 450hp. Both coming from BW. Weird


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## 07wolfsburg (Mar 7, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Here is the very simple DV unit. I've seen these over a decade ago on something else, I cant recall what...




Looks identical to the DV AWE sells for the K03


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

07wolfsburg said:


> Looks identical to the DV AWE sells for the K03


It's also the same DV that was used on the 2.0t K03 but was abandoned in favor of the electronic DV. GM also uses the same valve on their K03s.


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

Hey can you use that turbo on your turbo kit???


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, there you go. Comparison chart states 500hp and item description states 450hp. Both coming from BW. Weird


Nice Technical info Arnold :thumbup: Bob.G

Here the match bot sheet http://www.turbodriven.com/performanceturbos/matchbot/index.html

Too add here a nice Youtube EFR Turbo matching tutorials 

part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGDnbaBcJI&feature=player_embedded#!
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I79sUKGXyE&feature=related
part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHKMsYZDrn0&feature=related
part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpkvwe8qRMI&feature=related


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Thanks for the links bob. As for the turbo kit, yes, they will be offered in many different trim levels.


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Kit pricing will depend on turbo of course. There are some mods to be made if ppl want to keep their oem dv's and n75 and such intact, but not far off at all.


i like the sound of this :thumbup:


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## cyberdiamond (Jan 25, 2011)

I signed up to say thanks for taking the time to document this, it's appreciated.

Looking forward to seeing the turbine flange machining to make the bw have a v-band turbine inlet connection.

Any thoughts on the 6258 and will you be testing them?
The maps actually look really good (surge, efficiency, high pressure) and it looks like your not giving up much at all over the 6758 which has a larger compressor inducer (larger than the 7064 even).


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Yes, they will be tested. Lots of things in the works including other turbo choices which will receive the total package treatment (custom comp covers, custom turbine housings on GT frame and our own billets)


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

almost there...


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> almost there...



That is just pure gorgeous.


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

Sooo tempting :heart:


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)




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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

Will you guys have a dyno or anything soon? Need to see some numbers soon, or I am gonna go nuts.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Thanks. I will be testing this out on a B7 A4Q w/ the standard engine upgrades and Maestro. Stay tuned. I will be doing this on my off time so things wont be hurried along the way I would like. I'm as antsy as you guys :thumbup:


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

think the 83S75 or 91S74 will fit a tial exhaust housing designed for a 35R?

probably not, with my luck.

LOL


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

the turbine mount and heat shielding depth is way different on the Garrett and BW setups so its not really possible. Well, nothing is really 'impossible'. Just that it probably will not be worth it. The PTE vbanded housings however...


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Here are more pics of it on the engine.

D valve and N75 attached to comp housing 










mani/turbo on mock motor pic


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Here are more pics of it on the engine.
> 
> D valve and N75 attached to comp housing


How is the clearance between the wastegate and the coolant port on the block? Looks very tight.

Dave


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

yes a little tight but working on an adapter. Not a biggie. This turbo is rather large so there are some provisions that would have to be made. But it is nice working w/ the vband to position.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Didnt have the camera on me so here are some phone cam pics of the coolant adapter and the modified actuator... To tighten or loosen, just loosen the vband a little, swing it out of the way and loosen/tighten, reposition turbo and snug down clamp... Done


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Arnold,

How reliable is that DV?

Can you PM me a price on the 8374 with .83 AR, vbanded turbine inlet and outlet shipped to NY 11713?

do you think the twin scroll T4 .92 AR will be spool rate will be significantly different than the undivided T3 .83?

how much for the 8374 with a T4 divided .92 and 1.05?

Hoping to have my GFs car sold by the end of the month. So time for a new toy.


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## racerX2 (Jun 30, 2009)

You keep making my decisions harder and harder


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> Arnold,
> 
> How reliable is that DV?
> 
> ...


The .92ar twin scroll should spool pretty quickly. But you cant really look at the twin scroll A/R's and compare them to the open undivided housings. You need a pretty large twin scroll housing to flow up top. For instance, the 1.05A/R housing should be pretty equivalent to a .63ar or so up top. The .92ar split housing is obviously a great spooler but would choke up top faster. I think it was probably more/less developed for road racers. I'm not sold on these internal gates quite yet. I've seen some dyno's where boost was dropping around 7psi up top and torque/hp dropping precipitously as a result. This was tested on the open .83ar T3 undivided which also seemed to be a dog as far as spool. Crazy power though... As for the vbanded mod on the 8374, it can be done. email me at [email protected] J. :thumbup:



racerX2 said:


> You keep making my decisions harder and harder


Hehe, sorry. Been around here for almost 10yrs now and the old timers and some of the new guys always knew me as the guy that tries everything. Progression is a good thing


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

nice work al .. you never sees to amaze :thumbup:


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

any news? dynos? anything?


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## contiman (Jun 28, 2009)

no news?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Sorry guys. Been so busy in the new shop and this has gone on backburner status. Customers will always come before R&D. And in front of that is setting up some CNC equipment and digging a hole for our dyno. It will be shortly though. Mid next month we'll have something brewing...


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry guys. Been so busy in the new shop and this has gone on backburner status. Customers will always come before R&D. And in front of that is setting up some CNC equipment and digging a hole for our dyno. It will be shortly though. Mid next month we'll have something brewing...


No excuses lol. We need some pictures of your shop.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Here is one side


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Here is one side


That looks nice. Nice bike.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Bon bong


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

> We went like this, he went like that. I said to Hollywood, "Where'd he go?"
> 
> 
> Hollywood says, "Where'ddddd whhoooo gooooooooooo?"


.


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## atrociousa3 (Aug 6, 2007)

Any new info?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Bumpin for updates


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

We have had an opportunity to revisit this thread that was started years ago. We will be finishing up an Audi B7 shortly with some information about the 6758 on our stainless vbanded kit... Here are some current progress pics...

Getting ready for dismantling









Airbox out and extracting K03









K03 out









EFR 6758 in and how it looks from underneath









How it looks from up top









SMIC's out









IC Core being used is the Garrett 550hp unit









Endtanks done









Test fitmanet









Inlet piping fabbed to utilize stock airbox









Bumper and vent refitted for clearancing









We will be wrapping this up shortly with some results in terms of spool, driveability and power


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We will be wrapping this up shortly with some results in terms of spool, driveability and power


:thumbup: In for updates!

Any idea if these will work for transverse mounted engines (Ex GTI)?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

GTI2Slow said:


> :thumbup: In for updates!
> 
> Any idea if these will work for transverse mounted engines (Ex GTI)?


Yes, these fit very well on the transverse platforms


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, these fit very well on the transverse platforms


Haldex? In the past, you mentioned something along the lines of a 'bolt on' EFR setup. Any details or updates?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

We decided against this as the length of the turbo plus all of its other components required puts you just a downpipe away from a full kit as it is. I will develop some non-standard vbanded housings with specific A/R's to target a specific powerband to accomodate our engines. Here are some more progress pics...


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> We decided against this as the length of the turbo plus all of its other components required puts you just a downpipe away from a full kit as it is. I will develop some non-standard vbanded housings with specific A/R's to target a specific powerband to accomodate our engines. Here are some more progress pics...


I think that's a good way forward. The bolt on kit made sense to me if you wanted to keep the stock manifold/housing and modify it to accept the EFR.

I'm very interested in a 6758 kit for my R. Not sure what you were thinking housing wise, but the graph of the R on Full Race's site seems to be pretty perfect for a street driven FSI. Don't see any info on which AR that was. I think I could get away without doing any internals or low pressure fueling upgrades. Not sure I'd be able to run 35psi though. 

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-turbos/borgwarner-efr-6758-turbo-2.html


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Yes, and since i'm accomodating the 7163 as well, for those that start off with a 6758 or even a 6358, they wont be forced to purchase an entire kit, again, on an upgrade if they see fit to do so...Modularity, component-wise, has been our theme and turbo specific kits limits any future moves on the existing kit so that doesnt interest us at all. This kit will also fit Garrett turbos as well as external wastegates so there are many variations

As far as the housing, I have a .72ar that will be designed with an internal gate for the 6758s and 7163's


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Everything is together...

Had a meth adapter laying around that I made but never used so why not?









All the lines are underneath which makes it tidy up in the bay...









Its about all you see from up top...









Normally, we ship a barbed connection for the coolant feed pipe to line but since this is an in-house project...









Cat-Delete pipe bolted to existing downpipe...









Cover and ram air duct installed


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

O.S.T (http://www.ost-turbo.de/) makes a FSI specific manifold that is much shorter and compact, might help with getting it to work with a Haldex car.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

We have it in a Haldex car... fits fine... Anyhow, we did a short log before the owner took possession of the car. The car will come back for fueling upgrades as well as a clutch shortly. We had only taken it through the first 2 gears and here is the important segment of the log at wot....

Remember, this is only a 2ND GEAR PULL

RPM Boost (PSI)

1720 1.90
1920 2.47
2080 2.90
2280 3.48
2480 4.50
2760 6.10
3040 8.27
3280 11.61
3600 15.95


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We have it in a Haldex car... fits fine... Anyhow, we did a short log before the owner took possession of the car. The car will come back for fueling upgrades as well as a clutch shortly. We had only taken it through the first 2 gears and here is the important segment of the log at wot....
> 
> Remember, this is only a 2ND GEAR PULL
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

3rd gear pull on a not so optimized file


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

Looks great. That's with the stock BW 0.85ar IWG Vband housing, correct?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

bzflag said:


> Looks great. That's with the stock BW 0.85ar IWG Vband housing, correct?


Why not the .64AR, seems to be better suited for the FSI.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

This is the .64ar IWG housing for the 6758 that was converted to vband


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

GTI2Slow said:


> Why not the .64AR, seems to be better suited for the FSI.


I'm inclined to agree but BW doesn't offer a .64 IWG vband for the 58mm turbine, so I guessed it was the .85.



[email protected] said:


> This is the .64ar IWG housing for the 6758 that was converted to vband


Ah, gotcha. Makes sense now. After seeing the boost plots of what I assumed was the .85 housing, I was wondering why you were going to go through the time and effort to design a smaller housing. I can see why you might want to go a bit bigger though.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

bzflag said:


> Ah, gotcha. Makes sense now. After seeing the boost plots of what I assumed was the .85 housing, I was wondering why you were going to go through the time and effort to design a smaller housing. I can see why you might want to go a bit bigger though.


I'd like to go a bit bigger on the turbo side. My car is getting the 71R with my billet and .72ar housing. I love the spool characteristics of the 6758 and it does pack a punch but I dont mind a touch more lag as long as it doesnt feel lazy


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I'd like to go a bit bigger on the turbo side. My car is getting the 71R with my billet and .72ar housing. I love the spool characteristics of the 6758 and it does pack a punch but I dont mind a touch more lag as long as it doesnt feel lazy


Have you tried the .85ar on the 6758 and found it too sluggish? Or what was the reasoning behind modifying the .64?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Havent tried the .85ar actually. I wouldnt think it would be horrendous but on a turbo this size, I probably wouldnt go up there in turbine size as the turbo is very efficient with the .64ar. I would much rather go up in turbo size then to try to force a few extra HP upstairs.


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Havent tried the .85ar actually. I wouldnt think it would be horrendous but on a turbo this size, I probably wouldnt go up there in turbine size as the turbo is very efficient with the .64ar. I would much rather go up in turbo size then to try to force a few extra HP upstairs.


Gotcha. I'm itching to get an efr setup going, but I might wait until you have data on the .72 housing. I'm intrigued by a TS 7163 but the simplicity and robustness of your vband setups are very attractive. I also don't think I have enough injector to push a 7163 hard.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

bzflag said:


> Gotcha. I'm itching to get an efr setup going, but I might wait until you have data on the .72 housing. I'm intrigued by a TS 7163 but the simplicity and robustness of your vband setups are very attractive. I also don't think I have enough injector to push a 7163 hard.


I will get that going as soon as I can. The TS would be nice and I may get to that at some point but they do present more of a challenge in packaging. If they are anywhere near the 6758's, I think it would be ideal. Open scroll exhibits less backpressure in the long run and these turbos will need to be toned down as far as EGT's.


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