# Starting on my 16vT/ABA



## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

These are the items i have at the moment and looking to get some direction/guidance from those that have done it before. This is my first real motor build. 1997 VW Cabrio manual 2.0 w/ABA is what is currently in the car.

I'm going for a High Boost Build Built to last and take my abuse.

These are the parts i have collected so far:

Engine & Internals

ARP head studs
2.0L 16v fully assembled head.
Early OBD1 block with forged crank and oil squirters
Oil Pan with Oil return bung (sloppily welded from PO)
Oil Windage Tray
Stock OBD2 ABA Pistons (6x) and Rods (may look into getting these shot peened, was there a forged ABA pistons/rod?)
A few spare ABA pistons OBD2
ABA Head gasket

Intake & Exhaust-

16v Scirocco Intake manifold, upper and lower
2.5" Autotech SS exhaust with Cat delete/ res and Magnaflow muffler

Belts & Pulleys-

Milled ABA Crank Pulley for correct fitment for 16v application
16v ABF intermediate shaft

Fuel & Spark-
I'm still not sure exactly what i need on this but i think i may go with the
1.8t Fuel Rail
42# injectors
Chipped ecu with c2 software if they have an application for my specific build i can tune? or
Megasquirt (i don't know much about this but seems popular for the standalones)

Accessories/Misc
I will be keeping AC and all my mk3 Accesories from the motor i'm pulling out hopefully. 
MK3 Tesioner Bracket
MK3 Alternator
ABA Crank Pulley



















Car motor will be going into.










So am i going in the right direction. What are some key items i am missing? I have a stock 1.8t Mk4 smic i will be using for intercooling for now. I hope to reach numbers somewhere in the 250-300 whp range. Motor will be tied to a mk4 1.8t trans if plans work out accordingly. Thanks for any help i'll be very appreciative of any constructive/destructive criticism.


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## chc-rado (Nov 20, 2008)

Nice build. As far pistons. Use early OBD-1 pistons, they are fully dish, don't use the later ones with squish area. Dish has less of tapping the valves with 16v setup at higher rpm The other route is rebush the rods to fit 2.0 16v pistons. 8v dish pistons will yield around 8.5 cr, and rebush 16v pistons will yield 9:3 cr. Use aba head gasket bc it's all metal. You should use 16v intermite shaft with 16v oil pump setup. Less hassle buying and modify stuff there. You might need bigger injectors if trying reach 300whp. More like 42# injectors. Nice build again. :thumbup:


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

Yup 42# injectors is what I mean to say.


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

use a 1.8t timing belt from the aeb passat


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## miketweedie (Apr 22, 2004)

if you're looking for easy engine management, this is for sale on my local forum. I ran this on my ABA-T, 16V ABA-T, and 1.8T swapped MK2's, and it worked awesome. 

http://clubveedub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46192&sid=c69da9f68e6a35c81338331ace117682

this is everything you need for a turnkey build, and it is half price. If i had a project, i would buy it.


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

standalones great just might run into issues if your looking to pass emmisions (don't know if you have them or not)


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

Am I going to run into any issues with having an obd1 block and possibly running on obd2 ecu?

Also if you guys have any of the smaller pieces I'm missing please feel free to shoot me a message and I'll help you clean your garages out

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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

scoomscoom said:


> standalones great just might run into issues if your looking to pass emmisions (don't know if you have them or not)


No emission in Cincinnati so I'm good there. I'll be catless too so I'm glad we dont

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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

blocks are the same no issue there


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

Is wasted spark ignition a waste? I've been discussing management with a few friends and I'm trying to figure out the best system for running coil on plug and coilpack systems. I'm new to all this so please bear with me. Wouldn't an ignition system operate more optimally if you are only firing spark at correct timing of each cylinder rather than wasting power on a dead cylinder

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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Moshua said:


> Is wasted spark ignition a waste? I've been discussing management with a few friends and I'm trying to figure out the best system for running coil on plug and coilpack systems. I'm new to all this so please bear with me. Wouldn't an ignition system operate more optimally if you are only firing spark at correct timing of each cylinder rather than wasting power on a dead cylinder
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


Coilpack IS wasted spark. And while waste spark systems are not quite as efficient as coil per cylinder systems they blow the doors off a distributor ignition. Megasquirt can be configured to run just about ANY ignition and an MS3/3X is plug and play with GM LS coils which produce more spark energy than anything else that is readily available. Do keep in mind that for true sequential coil per cylinder you'll need a cam signal as well as a crank signal. Again this is all very doable with a Megasquirt 2 or Megasquirt 3 (easiest with the MS3).


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

Found these Audi r8 coilpacks for $16 I'm going to use. Which means I may need to modify my intake a bit so that I can have an open valve cover. Possibly modify a 1.8t intake or purchase a short runner designed for 16v head










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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*aba obd1/9a pistons*

i have 2 sets of the early aba pistons and 1 extra sets of 9a pistons.ill give them to you if youneed them just pay shipping.i believe that theaba pistons need machining to clear the intake valves in a 16v application.


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

slorydgti said:


> i have 2 sets of the early aba pistons and 1 extra sets of 9a pistons.ill give them to you if youneed them just pay shipping.i believe that theaba pistons need machining to clear the intake valves in a 16v application.


Thanks again man, this guy made good on his word










soon as i get some of my gaskets and other smaller items in order i will be able to begin assembly


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

Early assembly is fun its the final pieces that drive you insane. I finished mine about a week ago and i love it:thumbup:


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

Btw im running the c2 stage 2 chip and it works spot on


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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*1.8 t timing belt*



scoomscoom said:


> use a 1.8t timing belt from the aeb passat


this will fit an aba with a 16v head.with stock 16v timing pulleys?


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

scoomscoom said:


> Early assembly is fun its the final pieces that drive you insane. I finished mine about a week ago and i love it:thumbup:


Yeah I'd like to get everything all painted and looking good before the motor all comes together. Aka polish accessories and get some items polished







scoomscoom said:


> Btw im running the c2 stage 2 chip and it works spot on



I've heard good and bad






slorydgti said:


> this will fit an aba with a 16v head.with stock 16v timing pulleys?


I'm not sure I know some 1.8t timing belt works. Not sure on the specifics. I have a modified ABA pulley that was milled down

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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*1.8 t belt*

im going to do some research on this.bbm sells a speciel belt for the abf engine for like 100 bucks but a 1.8t belt is much less.


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

slorydgti said:


> im going to do some research on this.bbm sells a speciel belt for the abf engine for like 100 bucks but a 1.8t belt is much less.


i want to say its a 1.8t 150tooth belt. it all depends on what accessories you are using. i plan on keeping Air Conditioning


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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*fuel rail*

in your first post you mentioned fuel rail.i would suggest the transverse 1.8t rail not the passat/audi rail because of where the lines come in.im using the passat one because it was free but its not ideal.


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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*timing belt*

the 1.8t timing belt has 150 teeth.the abf is a aba 16v in europe.thats basicly what we are doing.it has 151 teeth.so if you run an adjustable timing pulley or run the car slightly retarded it will work but ive found places that sell the abf belt for alot less so id go with the correct belt.


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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*intake*

if you are using a stock intake i had a sweet adapter made to run a obd2 vr6 throttle body when my intention were to build an abf.now ive built my own short runner intake so i dont need it.


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

i have a 16v crank gear, tt cam gear, and the bahn brenner intermediate gear, i used the aeb belt from i believe a 99 i thought it was 151 tooth maybe it was 150 but it was tight to slide on but fits snugly after a couple rotations, almost 1k miles this week and no issues


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## chilledOUTmk1 (Feb 5, 2006)

Can anyone verify needing to clearance ABA pistons to clear the valves?


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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*valve clearence*

i checked mine by putting the head on the block with a hea gasket but no bolts and it hit with at least 1/8 inch gap between the head and block when the piston was at the top.a head spacer will help.


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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

ive decided to use 9a pistons and just switch the wrist pin bushings in the aba rods for 16v ones.


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

i think a head spacer with aba pistons will be to low compression. i went with je pistons from integrated


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## chilledOUTmk1 (Feb 5, 2006)

slorydgti said:


> i checked mine by putting the head on the block with a hea gasket but no bolts and it hit with at least 1/8 inch gap between the head and block when the piston was at the top.a head spacer will help.


Did you have everything timed? I never heard anyone needing to make any changes to the ABA pistons to clear the valves..


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## red16vdub (Aug 21, 2009)

X2. ??? 

bajan 4g


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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*valve clearence*

this is for a 16v head


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

are you using an adjustable cam gear?


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

http://techtonicstuning.com/main/index.php?main_page=page&id=16&chapter=5


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

scoomscoom said:


> are you using an adjustable cam gear?


I'm not sure if i need one yet. i have the 16v cam gear that was on the head and a modified aba crank pulley so things should line up alright but we shall see if i can get it timed correctly.

Also I NEED some verification whether i will need to make valve reliefs in the early obd1 ABA pistons?


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## scoomscoom (Aug 31, 2010)

You should for a peace of mind but some people just slap them on. I would highly recomend reliefs if your boosting.


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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*valve reliefs*

the 16v intake valves open well below the botom of the head they will hit the aba pistons if they are not modified.ive already checked it out on my engine.i decided on 9a pistons instead.


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## chilledOUTmk1 (Feb 5, 2006)

So when using the 9A pistons in the ABA bottom end, there is no clearance issues with the valves?


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

slorydgti said:


> the 16v intake valves open well below the botom of the head they will hit the aba pistons if they are not modified.ive already checked it out on my engine.i decided on 9a pistons instead.


Do you have a suggestion on what valves to use or perhaps point me in the direction of a thread that gives more info

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## slorydgti (Aug 28, 2010)

*valve clearence*

i would search this site and find out what people did and then find a machine shop that will do it.im no expert but if the intake valves open when the piston hits tdc there done.heads done.the 16v pistons are recessed for a reason.it shouldnt cost much to get done.you just need to figure out what to do.


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

slorydgti said:


> i would search this site and find out what people did and then find a machine shop that will do it.im no expert but if the intake valves open when the piston hits tdc there done.heads done.the 16v pistons are recessed for a reason.it shouldnt cost much to get done.you just need to figure out what to do.


Yeah I know what you are saying though I'll try a dry fit and see if and how much I'll have to take off of them. I thought I had researched enough but I'll look into it more to see what options I have on valves too

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## chilledOUTmk1 (Feb 5, 2006)

From what I have gathered, when timed properly, there is no contact between valves and pistons when using stock 9A head and stock ABA bottom end. Guess Ill just have to bolt **** up and see.


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

chilledOUTmk1 said:


> From what I have gathered, when timed properly, there is no contact between valves and pistons when using stock 9A head and stock ABA bottom end. Guess Ill just have to bolt **** up and see.



That's what I thought too.

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## SwiftMKIII (Dec 13, 2006)

I ran OBD2 ABA pistons in mine for a while, and decided I wanted a higher CR, so I swapped them for stock 9a pistons. 

I had contact marks on the pistons from the valves. Didn't bend any, but definitly hit. I think the head had been shaved prior to my getting it, so that may have played into it. I bolted it together with some clay on the pistons, then spun the crank. It looked like it was going to work, but must have gotten closer as it heated up. 

Long story short, it may be well worth the time to cut valve reliefs in the ABA pistons (~8.5:1 CR) or use 9a pistons (~9.2:1 CR).


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

SwiftMKIII said:


> I ran OBD2 ABA pistons in mine for a while, and decided I wanted a higher CR, so I swapped them for stock 9a pistons.
> 
> I had contact marks on the pistons from the valves. Didn't bend any, but definitly hit. I think the head had been shaved prior to my getting it, so that may have played into it. I bolted it together with some clay on the pistons, then spun the crank. It looked like it was going to work, but must have gotten closer as it heated up.
> 
> Long story short, it may be well worth the time to cut valve reliefs in the ABA pistons (~8.5:1 CR) or use 9a pistons (~9.2:1 CR).


 is there a way to make the valves not come open as much. :screwy: is that even possible?


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