# Revo & Autotech Fuel Pump



## f_399 (May 8, 2006)

Recently I have been getting fuel cuts so I am thinking of purchasing the Autotech fuel pump
I am currently on stage 2, from what I read there are actual gains if i get the fuel pump the the necessary software to back it up
Does Revo already have a software out? Do I just go to my dealer and tell him i got an aftermarket fuel pump? 
or
Do i just change settings using revo select plus?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

I'd pass on the AT pump. Digitalhippie's pump seized for a second time recently. Guess he's no longer supporting their products anymore.
I would certainly get an upgraded fuel pump for REVO SII though since the amount of boost they request down low exceeds the capabilities of the stock pump / injectors at 110 bar and leads to a large fuel deviance in the low-to-mid RPM range.
Dave


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## f_399 (May 8, 2006)

besides the $1k apr pump, are there fuel pump alternatives?


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_I'd pass on the AT pump. Digitalhippie's pump seized for a second time recently. Guess he's no longer supporting their products anymore.
Dave

I love how you jump in and speak for others. The fact of the matter is there have been reports of failure with each HPFP manufacturer. Each failure has had the cam follower eaten through.
Two of the 3 failures had APR SW pushing 130bar of pressure. IMO, this is something that nobody has long term tested. You do not know if the seizer you speak of is the cause or result.
There is also a TSB out that an OEM cam is not properly hardened. This can lead to the follower wearing and eat through it. Once the Fuel pumps piston is riding directly on the cam, all bets are off. That could surely leak to a pump seizer. The TBS is for a newer rev. for the cam and cam follower.

_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
I would certainly get an upgraded fuel pump for REVO SII though since the amount of boost they request down low exceeds the capabilities of the stock pump / injectors at 110 bar and leads to a large fuel deviance in the low-to-mid RPM range.
Dave

This depends on how much boost you ask for. Even with the deviation, knock sensors, timing and EGT's are all in check. Have to big of an exhaust can also lead this.


_Modified by Spongebobnopants at 9:26 AM 2-4-2008_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Two of the 3 failures had APR SW pushing 130bar of pressure. IMO, this is something that nobody has long term tested. You do not know if the seizer you speak of is the cause or result.

What does cam follower wear have to do with the pump seizing? 
Regardless, 130bar pressure has been long-term tested by me (1 year 3 months, 13k miles) several other members who had the file before me, not to mention MTM, Oettinger, Sportec and all the other european tuning companies that use this technology. 
Dave


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## 99.5Rabbit (Jun 21, 2006)

*Re: (crew219)*

I was by Toms (DH) last night and saw all the parts of the AT pump that went bad...Not a good thing. But he told me that he is not going to push them out of the picture completely yet.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
What does cam follower wear have to do with the pump seizing? 


His point was chicken or the egg.
If the follower failed first and then side loads on the piston caused it to seize it was not necessarily the pumps fault for the issue. 
While you have been running a higher rail pressure for over a year you have not been running the higher rail pressure and higher flowing pump for over a year which puts altogether higher loads that have not been tested long term.


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
What does cam follower wear have to do with the pump seizing? 
Dave

Really, you need to ask that? So the pump piston riding directly on the cam couldn't possible cause damage to the pump? Borrow Brett's red crayon and draw it out.

_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Regardless, 130bar pressure has been long-term tested by me (1 year 3 months, 13k miles) several other members who had the file before me, not to mention MTM, Oettinger, Sportec and all the other european tuning companies that use this technology. 
Dave

I knew you would come back with this. 
1. Stage 2beta and 2.1 did request 130bar, but not until around 5k. The new files ask for it a lot earlier.
2. You yourself and a few others in the APR camp, said that while you only have 130bar at the line the increased piston size causes more pressure on the cam/cam follower. Then there is also the increased spring tension on the APR pump.
3. Your long term testing does not apply.


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## f_399 (May 8, 2006)

y'all lost me
this got too technical lol
does revo have a fuel pump file?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
His point was chicken or the egg.
If the follower failed first and then side loads on the piston caused it to seize it was not necessarily the pumps fault for the issue. 
While you have been running a higher rail pressure for over a year you have not been running the higher rail pressure and higher flowing pump for over a year which puts altogether higher loads that have not been tested long term.

Point being that 130 bar is easily achievable on the stock pump. No need for a HPFP if the tuning is done correctly.
Dave


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Question for you technical people...
Is there any damage to the cam if the follower is not chewed through? If the follower were replaced say every year or two, would this save the CAM that was not hardened properly. The reason I ask, is that I would imagine that most dealerships that see mods aren't going to cover this TSB...correct? With that being the case, replacing a $40 part every year or two, sounds a lot better (cost wise) than ripping apart the engine to replace the CAM.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*

You'd have to know if the cam follower was "softer" than the cam. If it were then changing it out might delay the failure point. It would appear from the TSB images that both parts suffer wear.
Someone from Autotech or APR could potentially let us know the metallurgy...


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Point being that 130 bar is easily achievable on the stock pump. No need for a HPFP if the tuning is done correctly.
Dave

Never said that you needed a hpfp to make 130 bar and that had nothing to do with what I was saying.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_Question for you technical people...
Is there any damage to the cam if the follower is not chewed through? If the follower were replaced say every year or two, would this save the CAM that was not hardened properly. The reason I ask, is that I would imagine that most dealerships that see mods aren't going to cover this TSB...correct? With that being the case, replacing a $40 part every year or two, sounds a lot better (cost wise) than ripping apart the engine to replace the CAM.

In the cases where the cam is not hard enough it deforms and then in turn damages the follower and the pump in some cases. This would not be remedied by replacing the follower on a regular basis.
If for some reason a pump or higher rail pressure is causing a problem where the follower is wearing through and then in turn damaging the cam. Then yes replacing the follower on a regular basis could prevent issues with the cam being worn. The cam would of course have to be the older cam which is not hardened. 
Some recent examples of issues blamed on pumps have in fact had the older non hardened cam.


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Some recent examples of issues blamed on pumps have in fact had the older non hardened cam.

Is there anyway to tell whether you cam is the newer or older version? I mean, did VW change part numbers and if so, what were the old numbers and what are the new numbers? Or was it just a bad batch of cams from a manufacturing plant that slipped by the QC? I'm sure my parts manager could tell me which part I have based on my VIN and then I could tell if this is something I have to plan on failing in the future.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_
Is there anyway to tell whether you cam is the newer or older version? I mean, did VW change part numbers and if so, what were the old numbers and what are the new numbers? Or was it just a bad batch of cams from a manufacturing plant that slipped by the QC? I'm sure my parts manager could tell me which part I have based on my VIN and then I could tell if this is something I have to plan on failing in the future.

Yes there are ways to tell, unfortunately not easily. 
Checking by the vin can't be done either. For example my very early 2.0t built end of 04/early 05 has the good cam. While people have had the bad cam in late 06 build engines from what I can tell, could possibly be early motors put into later cars.
The quickest way to check is if its a 1 pc vs 2pc cam.
The 2 piece is the revised later version. But you can't see this unless you remove the cover for the cam adjuster, not easy and you then need to replace an expensive gasket.
pics from an engine that had the cam replaced under warranty at the dealer I used to work for, bone stock car.


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Does anyone have plans to upgrade this POS cam rather than having a pissing match over hpfps? 
Thanks for the pics Chris, your posts are always informative, and even though you are a Revo rep, you always keep it objective http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: (shortydub)*

This whole cam thing sucks...
I mean if these are failing on a stock car and then I bring my modded car in there for the same problem, VW isn't going to cover my parts and labor. My mods obviously had nothing to do with the part failing. I have never had a problem paying for parts that break due to mods...PCV, DV, even was willing to pay for a MAF (ended up not needing it, but...). 
With that said, even these PCV and DV are failing on stock cars...how does VW relate these cam issues to our modding and not cover this even with a TSB?


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_With that said, even these PCV and DV are failing on stock cars...how does VW relate these cam issues to our modding and not cover this even with a TSB?

That's just it. You might as well go in, hand them the TSB, and see what they do. If you are running the stock pump with the stock fuel pressure (like me) then you might have a chance. If you limp in with a hpfp upgrade running APR's tune of 130 bar (not that a tech would be able to tell at that point) then you might be SOL. That's the breaks of modding a car. You might be able to talk them into paying for the cam (known by VW to be bad regardless of the pump) but you pay for labor. Heck you might even get it in writing that you don't expect them to warranty it after the work is done.
Just ask and be honest. Lying to the dealer and having them find out is just about the worst situation you can end up with.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (shortydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shortydub* »_Does anyone have plans to upgrade this POS cam rather than having a pissing match over hpfps? 


If you do infact have the bad cam then you should have no problems getting it replaced under warranty by your dealer assuming you have the codes pointing to it.
I've seen the problem occur in under 10K and take as long as 40K+ to happen. Its a decently large job too.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_This whole cam thing sucks...
I mean if these are failing on a stock car and then I bring my modded car in there for the same problem, VW isn't going to cover my parts and labor. My mods obviously had nothing to do with the part failing. I have never had a problem paying for parts that break due to mods...PCV, DV, even was willing to pay for a MAF (ended up not needing it, but...). 


The whole cam thing does suck. For the most part though if they have it apart enough to show it was the bad cam there is enough documentation that its a factory problem that even with some mods most dealers will probably warranty it for you.


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Good stuff up above...thank you for both of your input. Agreed on telling the truth...the dealer knows about every mod I have. They are going to be helping me install my HPFP when I get around to picking one up. With that said, I have never had any codes from a FC, but my logs don't lie and in the midrange...at least 20 bar deviance. I am certain that this is due to the SW (GIAC, but this is my fault since I'm running a 3" DP on the x+ File), but I just want to make sure everything looks good (or know the necessary steps to take if the cam is in bad shape) when I install my HPFP. Thanks again gentlemen.


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## ed j (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: (f_399)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f_399* »_
does revo have a fuel pump file?


No. I'm still waiting as well.


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
If you limp in with a hpfp upgrade running APR's tune of 130 bar (not that a tech would be able to tell at that point) then you might be SOL. That's the breaks of modding a car. You might be able to talk them into paying for the cam (known by VW to be bad regardless of the pump) but you pay for labor. Heck you might even get it in writing that you don't expect them to warranty it after the work is done.
Just ask and be honest. Lying to the dealer and having them find out is just about the worst situation you can end up with.

Don't forget to take the APR sticker off the pump.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

I have to add my car is a MY2006 made on August 2005 with an AXX engine code and i've recently installed the Autotech pump.
This is my cam follower after ~40000 km.









In my opinion very early TFSI's might actually have more durable cams, and i'm guessing either there was a change in the manufacturer later on, or there was a bad batch (god knows how many) of cams that got into the mid 2006 early 2007 cars.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
In my opinion very early TFSI's might actually have more durable cams, and i'm guessing either there was a change in the manufacturer later on, or there was a bad batch (god knows how many) of cams that got into the mid 2006 early 2007 cars.

It was a bad batch.
Dave


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_Don't forget to take the APR sticker off the pump.









Never realized they put one on there.







That must be some great adhesive!


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
It was a bad batch.
Dave

The two cams are made entirely different which can be seen in any picture of the two. It's not as simple as a bad batch.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The two cams are made entirely different which can be seen in any picture of the two. It's not as simple as a bad batch.

I would have to agree.
Both in Chris's pic as well as mine, the "good" cams seem to have a more "silvery" colour, while the "bad" cams seem to have more of a "led" color (that being more like black chrome, for those who know it)


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
I would have to agree.
Both in Chris's pic as well as mine, the "good" cams seem to have a more "silvery" colour, while the "bad" cams seem to have more of a "led" color (that being more like black chrome, for those who know it)

It is also a one piece vs 2 piece design, not something as simple as oops we didn't harden these, that would be a bad batch. Two entire different designs require more then an oops.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
It is also a one piece vs 2 piece design, not something as simple as oops we didn't harden these, that would be a bad batch. Two entire different designs require more then an oops.

I agree, but that wouldn't explain why earlier cams seem to be more durable.
Considering as you say the "two piece" design, and the bad batch theory, it would have to be more like 
-"ok lets make the next batch 1 piece instead of 2 piece (earlier cams)"......
-"oops we screwed up....lets go back to the 2 piece design"...
which i don't think happened.
I really can't say though if my cam is a 2 piece or 1 piece design.If it a 1 piece design it would have to be more like
Earlier cams-> one piece design durable.
Bad cams-> one piece design soft.
Newer cams-> two piece design durable.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*

My cam is a 2pc design and the engine was built late 04 or very early 05 as I had it in my hands by the end of april 05.
If I had to guess it would be more like we built these cams, they suck throw them out and use this new design. Whoops someone grabbed that box and put them in a few thousands engines and we have no way to figure out which ones..


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_My cam is a 2pc design and the engine was built late 04 or very early 05 as I had it in my hands by the end of april 05.
If I had to guess it would be more like we built these cams, they suck throw them out and use this new design. Whoops someone grabbed that box and put them in a few thousands engines and we have no way to figure out which ones..


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## ax1337 (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Pardon my ignorance, 
what if we install 3rd party cams like Schrick?
I suppose they are more durable, and what about that follower piece?
Does it come with Schrick cams or we still have to use OEM piece?


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: (ax1337)*

Well, if there were two different parts producted...shouldn't there be 2 different part numbers? Or is this just optimistic thinking that VW would acutally think of this? My parts manager just told me that I have part number 06F109101B based on my VIN information and my Passat was produced 02/05/2006 (Happy B-Day Tomorrow







)


_Modified by rbradleymedmd at 3:16 PM 2-4-2008_


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_Well, if there were two different parts producted...shouldn't there be 2 different part numbers? Or is this just optimistic thinking that VW would acutally think of this? My parts manager just told me that I have part number 06F109101B based on my VIN information and my Passat was produced 02/05/2006 (Happy B-Day Tomorrow







)


Yes there are two different part numbers.
Unfortunately looking it up via vin doesn't tell you what part you have actually in your car it only tells you what part to order if you needed to replace it right now.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (ax1337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ax1337* »_Pardon my ignorance, 
what if we install 3rd party cams like Schrick?
I suppose they are more durable, and what about that follower piece?
Does it come with Schrick cams or we still have to use OEM piece?


The follower would still be OEM.
I have not seen the schricks so I can't really say how they are done. Some companies just modify stock cams others make them from scratch. Chances are if schrick bought a stock came to base their specs off they would have gotten the revised version and seen the design and copied that.


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yes there are two different part numbers.
Unfortunately looking it up via vin doesn't tell you what part you have actually in your car it only tells you what part to order if you needed to replace it right now.

Dammit







. Thanks Chris...I think I misinterpreted what you told me before, but now I see. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by rbradleymedmd at 3:30 PM 2-4-2008_


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*

This cam problem sucks!! I dont understand 100% about this cam problem.
If I understand correctly, this cam is not a part include inside the FP? If I buy the brand new APR FP(not the rebuilt one), it wont replace this cam everyone talk bout?
I made some search and did not find a lot on the subject. Some people know a lot about this subject and talk about very technical thing can we elaborate from the beginning to understand a little. 
Also, if a problem occur and the cam break and the dealer dont pass this under warranty, is it a big issue to deal? we are talking about how much $$ to repair this? 500? 1000? more?


_Modified by jeff2.0t at 1:15 PM 2-4-2008_


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*

This is the actual cam inside your engine that operates the valves.
In our engines the fuel pump is also driven off the cam.
There is a trilobe at the end of the camshaft that the fuel pump runs off.
On some cams it is a one piece design and this lobe was not properly hardened and wears, like the cam on the left in the pic above.
The revised part is a two piece design with hardened lobes.
Whether you have a stock or any aftermarket fuel pump if you have the one piece cam you can have a problem. Failures with the good cam and any aftermarket pumps have yet to be fully determined what the cause is.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
Also, if a problem occur and the cam break and the dealer dont pass this under warranty, is it a big issue to deal? we are talking about how much $$ to repair this? 500? 1000? more?


The cam itself is a few hundred bucks, if JC at douglas is reading he can chime in.
The follower retail is 70 bucks
The sealen for the cam bearing cap is about 100 bucks
Plus your time, so probably over 1000 bucks to pay a shop.


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_This cam problem sucks!! I dont understand 100% about this cam problem.
If I understand correctly, this cam is not a part include inside the FP? If I buy the brand new APR FP(not the rebuilt one), it wont replace this cam everyone talk bout?

Correct.

_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
I made some search and did not find a lot on the subject. Some people know a lot about this subject and talk about very technical thing can we elaborate from the beginning to understand a little. 

The HPFP is cam driven. The cam has 3 lobes on it which the cam follower (bucket) rides on. The HPFP piston sits in the bucket and pumps when the lobe rotates. Some cam lobes are wearing down causing the HPFP to not pump as much. Not enough fuel at a certain RPM and you get Fuel Cut. Worse yet, some wearing causes the follower to break a hole in it and the piston rides on the lobe directly. Worse yet, the piston could side load and leak fuel in the engine. 
Cam with HPFP removed:








Cam follower:








Piston inside follower:








PITA to replace the Cam. Looks like a 7+ hour job. New cam isn't cheap either.


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Thanks Chris...
Ouch a real bad news for us. This part is a major weak point and a big weak point. It could cause trouble to everyone with stage 2+ and Stage 3.


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*

So if we have the weak cam(lobe), the aftermarket FP dont accelerate the weakness? without the aftermarket FP it would have break anyway?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_So if we have the weak cam(lobe), the aftermarket FP dont accelerate the weakness? without the aftermarket FP it would have break anyway?

Not enough testing really has been done or anyone keeping track of what exactly is failing.
I hear stuff from all over the place so I've been trying too keep track between what I have seen in person, see here, and hear. Rumors wont get posted as just because someone tells me about it on the phone doesn't mean its the whole story. But I have been trying my best to keep track of which pump, which software (pressure level), and which cam if possible is in the car.
Coming up with some interesting stuff, which hopefully will help people out in the long run.

If you have the bad cam then stock or aftermarket its going to fail eventually, chances are yes an aftermarket pump will just accelerate it.
If you have the good cam and a stock pump possibly things could increase the chance of it wearing. Same for with aftermarket pumps. Doesnt' mean it has to fail though.


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## Got_Turbo (Mar 26, 2006)

Other then looking at the physical cam, is there anyway to tell if it's going? What happens with the cam wears out? I just put my APR pump on, and didn't think to have my mechanic inspect the follower. not sure if it's worth pulling it off to have a look...


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Not enough testing really has been done or anyone keeping track of what exactly is failing.
I hear stuff from all over the place so I've been trying too keep track between what I have seen in person, see here, and hear. Rumors wont get posted as just because someone tells me about it on the phone doesn't mean its the whole story. But I have been trying my best to keep track of which pump, which software (pressure level), and which cam if possible is in the car.
Coming up with some interesting stuff, which hopefully will help people out in the long run.

If you have the bad cam then stock or aftermarket its going to fail eventually, chances are yes an aftermarket pump will just accelerate it.
If you have the good cam and a stock pump possibly things could increase the chance of it wearing. Same for with aftermarket pumps. Doesnt' mean it has to fail though.

I made a lot of search since my last post. This problem doesn't seem frequent. I only found 3-4 reported cases and 3-4 subject in every possible forum on the internet. I dont think we have to push on the alarm button yet. Maybe the bad cam batch was a small specific lot that passed free on the QC and that did not met the usual spec. 
At less if this is the weakest point of the car, its not that bad... 1000$ is not that much, we are not talking about replacing the engine, if I understand correctly the engine wont detonate like a grenade, it wont bent valves, crush a pistons or crack the head. 1000$ is like buying a set of coilovers, change the clutch ot buy an exhaust.... When you get 70 hp and 120 pd of torque over the stock number a weakness of 1000$ is not excessive. On many car to get so much gain you need way more $$$ to get the engine stronger.


_Modified by jeff2.0t at 6:33 PM 2-4-2008_


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## Got_Turbo (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
I made a lot of search since my last post. This problem doesn't seem frequent. I only found 3-4 reported cases and 3-4 subject in every possible forum on the internet. I dont think we have to push on the alarm button yet. Maybe the bad cam batch was a small specific lot that passed free on the QC and that did not met the usual spec. 
At less if this is the weakest point of the car, its not that bad... 1000$ is not that much, we are not talking about replacing the engine, if I understand correctly the engine wont detonate like a grenade, it wont bent valves, crush a pistons or crack the head. 1000$ is like buying a set of coilovers, change the clutch ot buy an exhaust.... When you get 70 hp and 120 pd of torque over the stock number a weakness of 1000$ is not excessive. On many car to get so much gain you need way more $$$ to get the engine stronger.

_Modified by jeff2.0t at 6:33 PM 2-4-2008_

Good call. I just don't want to blow it up. If all it means is spending a grand on new cams, then so be it.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
I made a lot of search since my last post. This problem doesn't seem frequent. I only found 3-4 reported cases and 3-4 subject in every possible forum on the internet. I dont think we have to push on the alarm button yet. Maybe the bad cam batch was a small specific lot that passed free on the QC and that did not met the usual spec. 
At less if this is the weakest point of the car, its not that bad... 1000$ is not that much, we are not talking about replacing the engine, if I understand correctly the engine wont detonate like a grenade, it wont bent valves, crush a pistons or crack the head. 1000$ is like buying a set of coilovers, change the clutch ot buy an exhaust.... When you get 70 hp and 120 pd of torque over the stock number a weakness of 1000$ is not excessive. On many car to get so much gain you need way more $$$ to get the engine stronger.


What you have to realize is that internet forums only cover a tiny fraction of actual vehicles out there.
Also this is not something thats just 3-4 cars on internet forums, this is someting that has affected hundreds if not thousands of cars in North America alone.
Is it something to panic over no, but this is a very real issue even on cars that are bone stock.


----------



## gtidylank (Mar 14, 2007)

My 06' is currently having the cam and follower replaced. I've been running REVO stg2 for almost a full year now and I never really had a problem with fuel cuts (based on driving style). FC's would only happen at low rpm/high load situations and I never really created those because I prefer to down shift and run the motor through higher RPM's... but for the few times it happened I figured it was just a FC associated with being stage 2 but I recently started experiencing it more by creating low rpm/high load situations. I took it to the dealership and the only code that was thrown was a low pressure fuel code. So when the tech went to diagnose it the cam was worn and the follower was all jacked up... I was probably only a few thousand miles from the follower and/or cam being completely worn.
Maybe someone with more "technical" experience can comment on this but you shouldn't ever see a "low fuel pump pressure" FC just from software... if it's software FC's are related to "overboost/underboost" type codes and what not. And "low fuel pressure" codes are pretty much only related to the bad cam... right?


----------



## ed j (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: (gtidylank)*

gtidylank, that's not good news. I checked my cam and it's the older one. I guess it will need to be replace soon or later.
Question, did you get a CEL? Or did you just decide to check for a fault code? What I`m asking is will this fault code appear without having a CEL.

_Modified by ed j at 7:21 PM 2-5-2008_


_Modified by ed j at 7:43 PM 2-5-2008_


----------



## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Not enough testing really has been done or anyone keeping track of what exactly is failing.
I hear stuff from all over the place so I've been trying too keep track between what I have seen in person, see here, and hear. Rumors wont get posted as just because someone tells me about it on the phone doesn't mean its the whole story. But I have been trying my best to keep track of which pump, which software (pressure level), and which cam if possible is in the car.
Coming up with some interesting stuff, which hopefully will help people out in the long run.

If you have the bad cam then stock or aftermarket its going to fail eventually, chances are yes an aftermarket pump will just accelerate it.
If you have the good cam and a stock pump possibly things could increase the chance of it wearing. Same for with aftermarket pumps. Doesnt' mean it has to fail though.


thanks for the "survey" you make.
It would help to know the latest car build date you have found with the bad cam. The TSB regarding this issue was made during mid-june 2007. So VW knew way before that about this issue and the bad cam could only concern a lmited proportion of 2006-2007 made. My car is a 2007 bought on may 2007 and it was made in january 2007. My VIn state that I am +- the 160 000 GTI made in 2007, so I am probably a late 2007 car. If you have found a bad cam in a newer 2007 it probably mean every 2007 have the bad cam.
Anyway it would be a good think for those who got this issue to post the year and month of production of their car.

_Modified by jeff2.0t at 5:22 PM 2-5-2008_


_Modified by jeff2.0t at 5:23 PM 2-5-2008_


----------



## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_I'd pass on the AT pump. Digitalhippie's pump seized for a second time recently. Guess he's no longer supporting their products anymore.
I would certainly get an upgraded fuel pump for REVO SII though since the amount of boost they request down low exceeds the capabilities of the stock pump / injectors at 110 bar and leads to a large fuel deviance in the low-to-mid RPM range.
Dave
Seriously? You mean the same guy that blasted Autotech in some long drawn out ass thread for their swaybars, demanded his money back and everything, then decides to support their fuel pumps? Or did he just "seize" the opportunity to blast them again. Hmmm......


----------



## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (blackvento36)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_Seriously? You mean the same guy that blasted Autotech in some long drawn out ass thread for their swaybars, demanded his money back and everything, then decides to support their fuel pumps? Or did he just "seize" the opportunity to blast them again. Hmmm......

Thanx for contributing. Seriously. 
Several of us had problems with the sway bar. Thanx to the thread from early adapters like DH and I recalls were made and refunds were given to some etc. Did it leave a bad taste to me. Yes but I, DH, and many others got over it. Anyone can screw up, it's how they choose to resolve it that defines them.
This thread is about fuel pumps and worn/wearing camshafts.


----------



## jrigatoni (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: (ed j)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ed j* »_did you get a CEL? Or did you just decide to check for a fault code? What I`m asking is will this fault code appear without having a CEL.

x2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (ed j)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ed j* »_gtidylank, that's not good news. I checked my cam and it's the older one. I guess it will need to be replace soon or later.


There is no way to tell unless the damage has occured or you have removed the tensioner housing on the side of the head. If you figured out a new way to check that takes less work please do post up as it would be very helpful to people.


----------



## ed j (Mar 11, 2003)

What I meant was that when you remove the valve cover, you can see the part # etch onto the camshaft. The older part one has a part # 06F 109 101A, which is what I have. I cannot see if it's wearing or not.
I'm just wondering if there will be some sort of fault code as gtidylank mention. But he did not say if he had a CEL to have this fault code or not.

_Modified by ed j at 10:03 AM 2-6-2008_


_Modified by ed j at 10:43 AM 2-6-2008_


----------



## ShadowGLI (Oct 27, 2006)

I just wanted to say thanks for the fantastick HPFP info in this thread.. glad to see its still remaining technical and not getting personal (as most of these seem to.. it went OT but in a great way IMHO)


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (ed j)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ed j* »_What I meant was that when you remove the valve cover, you can see the part # etch onto the camshaft. The older part one has a part # 06F 109 101A, which is what I have. I cannot see if it's wearing or not.


So you did this or you are guessing you can do it? My engine is out of the car and apart right now and there are no part numbers at all on my cams.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Just found out some have the part number.. adding more the wackiness.


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Just found out some have the part number.. adding more the wackiness.

That's nuts. We just pulled the valve cover off one to verify. It's stamped about in the middle of the cam. So some don't have the part number? I wonder if these are A's and just weren't stamped yet?


----------



## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: (Nurendra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nurendra* »_
Thanx for contributing. Seriously. 
Several of us had problems with the sway bar. Thanx to the thread from early adapters like DH and I recalls were made and refunds were given to some etc. Did it leave a bad taste to me. Yes but I, DH, and many others got over it. Anyone can screw up, it's how they choose to resolve it that defines them.
This thread is about fuel pumps and worn/wearing camshafts.









And yet the only one actually describing the swaybar debacle is you. I only mention it because crew brought his name up as being somewhat as a supporter or impartial of Autotech FPs, at least at first. And that couldn't possibly be the case. Point being, I find it hard to trust info from somebody when it's tainted by their previous experiences with that company.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (syntrix)*

Edj has the A and his is apparently stamped, my B cam only has the little tine 3d bar code on it and no part number. I'll check again later to see if I missed it.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Edj has the A and his is apparently stamped, my B cam only has the little tine 3d bar code on it and no part number. I'll check again later to see if I missed it.

Chris you said your car is a 2005 model, and yet it has the B cam ?
Mine is a MY2006 model manufactured in August 2005, and don't seem to have cam failure.Are you actually saying cam parts are unrelated to manufacturing period ?


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*

My car is a model year 06 car manufactured in 05 possibly engine built in 04.
Yes I have a B cam and yes I am saying the parts do not seem to be related to a certain build time.
Spoke with someone else today who said they even bought off the shelf B cams in 2005 sometime. 


_Modified by [email protected] at 9:33 AM 2-6-2008_


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_My car is a model year 06 car manufactured in 05 possibly engine built in 04.
Yes I have a B cam and yes I am saying the parts do not seem to be related to a certain build time.
Spoke with someone else today who said they even bought off the shelf B cams in 2005 sometime. 

_Modified by [email protected] at 9:33 AM 2-6-2008_

Hmmm..interesting...








We seem to have similar engines, and manufacturing times.
Crossing my fingers we might also be in the "tough cam" group....


----------



## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

on to the original question....when will this software be out (not that I care but for the original poster and those who want to know)?


----------



## ed j (Mar 11, 2003)

Chris, my mechanic remove the valve cover and we can see the part number etch onto the cam.
Again, this is on a 2007 Audi A4.
I have an appointment with Audi on Friday and I will mention the TSB on this cam issue and see what they say. 


_Modified by ed j at 12:50 PM 2-6-2008_


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Hmmm..interesting...








We seem to have similar engines, and manufacturing times.
Crossing my fingers we might also be in the "tough cam" group.... 
















I definitely have the good cam as its sitting in the back with the rest of the guts of my engine.
Rods and bearings should be here tommorrow


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (ed j)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ed j* »_Chris, my mechanic remove the valve cover and we can see the part number etch onto the cam.
Again, this is on a 2007 Audi A4.


Cams are the same between engines other then the S3 which shows a different part number I believe.
i don't get how they can have goofed so bad to not only put bad cams in the middle of a run and also to have some with part numbers some without.. well Iguess that does help explain it.


----------



## drpsycher (May 24, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

this has been very educational and i've been grovin on this thread pretty good, but i have a dumb question:
i was looking to go stage 2 soon and thats why i was checking out the fuel pump thing.....if i wanted to avoid the entire posibility and complication of this cam issue....could i just "get a mellow tune" with my stage 2 file, or does pretty much everybody get fuel cuts with stage 2 (revo)
is smaller exhaust the answer?......whats the biggest predictor varable of fuel cuts with stage 2 revo?.....who's getting these FCs, thus necessatating an aftermarket fuel pump?


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (drpsycher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drpsycher* »_
i was looking to go stage 2 soon and thats why i was checking out the fuel pump thing.....if i wanted to avoid the entire posibility and complication of this cam issue....could i just "get a mellow tune" with my stage 2 file, or does pretty much everybody get fuel cuts with stage 2 (revo)
is smaller exhaust the answer?......whats the biggest predictor varable of fuel cuts with stage 2 revo?.....who's getting these FCs, thus necessatating an aftermarket fuel pump?











All of our current stage II software is tuned around a stock fuel pump, so there is no requirement to install one. We will have, shortly, stage II software that is fuel pump specific and for that you would be required to have the pump.
99% of cars running stage II do not experience fuel cuts if the vehicle is in good running order and it is setup properly.


----------



## drpsycher (May 24, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

All of our current stage II software is tuned around a stock fuel pump, so there is no requirement to install one. We will have, shortly, stage II software that is fuel pump specific and for that you would be required to have the pump.
99% of cars running stage II do not experience fuel cuts if the vehicle is in good running order and it is setup properly.


awesome then!......

but who comprised that 01% then?.....is it too big of exhaust / intake?


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (drpsycher)*

Maybe those 1% have the cam problem we are talking about or the beginning of it.


----------



## drpsycher (May 24, 2005)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_Maybe those 1% have the cam problem we are talking about or the beginning of it.


maybe.....hope i'm not one of 'them'
last off topic post....









i started this "can you overspin your turbo by not having enough back pressure" thread that was very educational but got locked








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1

some were suggesting that not enough back pressure will lead to an over spin and then a resultant fuel cut.....

what would really suck would be if you thought you were getting fuel cuts because of your cam, but it was really your honkin 3 inch catless exhaust and in the end, got the cam for no reason









i would hope that you could confirm that yay or ney with log files before making the plunge.....even if you did have the bad cams.....

_Modified by drpsycher at 12:26 PM 2-6-2008_


_Modified by drpsycher at 12:26 PM 2-6-2008_


----------



## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: (drpsycher)*

Could maybe this one bad batch of cams been implemented in only certain cars at certain production plants? Have any Euro cars experienced this cam failure?


----------



## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

*Re: (drpsycher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drpsycher* »_

awesome then!......

but who comprised that 01% then?.....is it too big of exhaust / intake?

I have stage 2 with Evom intake, ATP #" DP on stock "cat" back. I believe people with 3" exhaust all the way back have or will have problems. Most tuners and exhaust manufactures for our cars say 3" exhaust is too big and hurts low end torque. So say 3" DP with 2.5" cat back is bad too... but from what I have seen 3" DP with 2.5" cat back is the way to go.
Anyway to answer your question.. most fuel cuts are from too large of an exhaust.. and I would guess maybe air temps (since denser colder air would demand more fuel)


----------



## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: (bwzimmerman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_
I have stage 2 with Evom intake, ATP #" DP on stock "cat" back. I believe people with 3" exhaust all the way back have or will have problems. Most tuners and exhaust manufactures for our cars say 3" exhaust is too big and hurts low end torque. So say 3" DP with 2.5" cat back is bad too... but from what I have seen 3" DP with 2.5" cat back is the way to go.
Anyway to answer your question.. most fuel cuts are from too large of an exhaust.. and I would guess maybe air temps (since denser colder air would demand more fuel)

I have to disagree with ya. I've run a custom 3" dp and 3" Autotech cb for almost a year now with no problems. I do have a high flow magnaflow cat which could make a little difference. "Too large of an exhaust" can't directly create fuel cuts, especially since we are only talking 3" here. If you're gonna move enough air fast enough through the engine obviously that's gonna require more fuel which is where the fuel cuts come in. 
Whether or not a 3" tb alone lets the engine breathe enough to require this much fuel I can't say. I will say that I seriously doubt it. I had so-so EIP software hitting 21psi and stock OY software now and I have yet to experience any sort of fuel cuts whatsoever. I would think (and hope) these bigger tuners that offer major support would at least be able to tune around the issue at least as well as EIP.
What is real is the ability to overspool the turbo with a 3" exhaust. I don't think this was ever an issue with the tuners tho. The 3" files supposedly have a modified boost ramp that is tuned for the expected overspool until the wastegate can catch up. Even the single stage EIP flash was able to deal with it as well as the stock OY flash. 
If there is a worst case scenario for fuel cuts, my car is it. Obviously they are real or else it wouldn't be all over this forum. The best guess I have is that they are all related to the HPFP/cam lobe wear issue. I could be wrong but hopefully when I choose a new stg2 software these issues won't pop up.


----------



## drpsycher (May 24, 2005)

*Re: (blackvento36)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_
....................Anyway to answer your question.. most fuel cuts are from too large of an exhaust.. and I would guess maybe air temps (since denser colder air would demand more fuel)


i would only assume that you mean on the exhaust but i can't wrap my brain arround how denser colder air on the exhaust side of the turbo would make any difference......i'm not deying, it, i just don't get it....
it makes more sence on the intake side.....what your saying about the cold air.......but my buddy got a honkin intercooler, and intake and a honkin turboback for his GTI and he's still running on the stock fuel pump with no problems.....i don't know for sure if he's on stage 2 software or not.......

_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_............If there is a worst case scenario for fuel cuts, my car is it.......................


i just see so many different stories and it just makes me wonder about how much different tollerences in different cars of the same model can make a difference......it almost seems that you could get 10 GTIs and do the identical mods on them and get 10 different results........



_Modified by drpsycher at 9:50 AM 2-7-2008_


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## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

not talking exhaust side. I am not talking from experience.. I just remember people talking about fuel cut problems and most have a large exhaust. More air through the engine would require more fuel. (not being a smart a$$ at all) but common sence would say more air + more fuel could cause fuel cut.
I believe 3" exhaust will work.. but I have been reading every post from APR, AWE, REVO on everything. Which I am rehashing info its still based on what they all say about the larger exhaust. Look at AWE's logs. APR said they are running 2.5" exhaust on their Stage 2 cause they found it runs better that way. They stated 3" is just too big for our engines, even with a GT28 turbo.
When I said cooler denser air I ment on intake side... (sorry after re-reading my post i see how its confusing.







)
Well I am sure people are running, large 3" intake with a FMIC, 3" TBE and stage 2 without fuel cut. I wish I could understand why people get fuel cuts, maybe they are mistaken with something else? Bad fuel?
Anyway, My REVO Stage 2 runs great and I kept even with a stock STI tonight (my buddy has an STI, he called me after we raced and said hes going to be modding his vehicle cause I kept up too well







I was talking crap, yeah his is stock but its ugly and he paid alot for it. I got a sexy Jetta and spent $1200 to get my stage 2 stuff and I am running with him. )
Oh, well. I think my next step is KMD S3 Turbo kit.


----------



## 2zzge (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: (drpsycher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drpsycher* »_
........
i just see so many different stories and it just makes me wonder about how much different tollerences in different cars of the same model can make a difference......it almost seems that you could get 10 GTIs and do the identical mods on them and get 10 different results........

i really do think that driving style plays a very big role in all this.
because of the ECU's adaptability, it will "self-tune" to match the most recent series of conditions + current conditions.
if i tend to drive like the "duke bothers" and my "REVO stg2" is fine-tuned a bit aggressively its real easy for me to see how fuel-cut would come into play under certain conditions and not others.
another guy can have all the same bolt-ons, same software etc but his weather might be cooler, or his driving style less aggressive etc..
so that on paper everything looks the same, but in real life his ECU has adapted to using less fuel and needs less fuel at present.
then the both of us post up our 'opinions' and 'bolt-ons' etc but get completely different stories/results for the rest of the community to try and sort out.
so we HAVE TO ask specific questions including software used, boltons etc...but also weather, and driving style (whcih tends to be subjective in discription) add some salt...maybe some more salt and take it all for what it is.
someone's less than perfect discription of conditions and parameters with results that are based more on opinion than science.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## The Factor (Aug 2, 2007)

*Re: (bwzimmerman)*

No fuel cuts here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif but possibly still interested in a FP for power gains midway to the upper parts of the powerband.


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## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

One factor that could also play in is the altitude of the driver. I live on sea level.. so I bet that has to play in with all this as well.. maybe? Oh well who knows... I drive my like I stole it and I have no problems.


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## drpsycher (May 24, 2005)

*Re: (2zzge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_................not talking exhaust side............................More air through the engine would require more fuel. (not being a smart a$$ at all) but common sence would say more air + more fuel could cause fuel cut............They stated 3" is just too big for our engines, even with a GT28 turbo......................

good news http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_................When I said cooler denser air I ment on intake side... (sorry after re-reading my post i see how its confusing.







)


good news for my self esteem.....i guess i'm not that dumb after all http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_
........................My REVO Stage 2 runs great and I kept even with a stock STI tonight (my buddy has an STI, he called me after we raced and said hes going to be modding his vehicle cause I kept up too well







...........................


MUHA......uber good news! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i like the sound about that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif  http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Quote, originally posted by *2zzge* »_...............
i really do think that driving style plays a very big role in all this.
because of the ECU's adaptability, it will "self-tune" to match the most recent series of conditions + current conditions............

that makes sence.....after i track my car, it allways feels like it has more HP for the rest of the day......


_Quote, originally posted by *2zzge* »_
....................so we HAVE TO ask specific questions including software used, boltons etc....................someone's less than perfect discription of conditions and parameters with results that are based more on opinion than science.


it's refreshing to hear this, and it's threads like this that makes me love 'the tex' ......its mostly sillyness, but the minority of the time that it's like this that makes it like college, but way cheaper
after being involved psychological research and experimentation in a previous career and troubleshooting large computer networks in my current career what you speak of is the motto i live by and it's so nice to hear on the tex and not more "yo man.....becuase it's mine its better, word up!?" that's all too common these days


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (drpsycher)*

screw 06D-109-281D $2.70
cover 06B-103-113C $3.48
clip N-907-399-01 $1.70
fuel pump 06F-127-025J $345.38
cam follower 06D-109-309C $59.85
camshaft 06F-109-101B $417.10
VC gasket 06F-103-483D $15.48
sealant D-154-103-A1 $97.40
seal 038-103-085C $8.83
total $951.92+ tax


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## ed j (Mar 11, 2003)

Just came back from Audi, had an appointment. 
I've mention the cam TSB and even show them the print out. They didn't know anything about it and couldn't do anything because I didn't get a CEL, therefore, no fault codes.
I cannot always keep on checking the FP. I'll be returning my FP kit back to Autotech.


----------



## The Factor (Aug 2, 2007)

*Re: (drpsycher)*

3 inch APR TBE and APR'S UPDATED STAGE 2 FILE HERE, and no fuel cuts at all like I mentioned before and I've been running The 3" TBE and updated file for around 3000 miles and 3 months or so http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by The Factor at 10:35 AM 2-8-2008_


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## gtidylank (Mar 14, 2007)

*Re: (ed j)*



ed j said:


> gtidylank, that's not good news. I checked my cam and it's the older one. I guess it will need to be replace soon or later.
> Question, did you get a CEL? Or did you just decide to check for a fault code? What I`m asking is will this fault code appear without having a CEL.
> QUOTE]
> Actually I never got a CEL, I even tried to get one to come on and it would just hit FC after FC without ever lighting up. So I went to the dealership and had them pull the code to see if it was just software related or maybe mechanical... they determined it was mechanical (they know it's chipped but I only ever bring it in for problems I know aren't caused by my mods, so they are cool with it when I do harass them) The TSB is only for if the car is displaying symptoms so don't run in there and try and get it replaced "just cuz"


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_screw 06D-109-281D $2.70
cover 06B-103-113C $3.48
clip N-907-399-01 $1.70
fuel pump 06F-127-025J $345.38
cam follower 06D-109-309C $59.85
camshaft 06F-109-101B $417.10
VC gasket 06F-103-483D $15.48
sealant D-154-103-A1 $97.40
seal 038-103-085C $8.83
total $951.92+ tax

How much would labor be?? I'm guessing this isnt a weekend driveway kinda project...


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (shortydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shortydub* »_
How much would labor be?? I'm guessing this isnt a weekend driveway kinda project...

I think they charge somewhere between 7-10 hours to do the job and you could do it in your driveway but you would need to buy some special tools that would be a couple hundred dollars alone


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

how difficult is the job. i have a friend that does top dollar frame off build ups of classic cars.(has all Sunnen equip. etc.) point being he is very good at building engines, just don't know if he's knowledgable about our engines. Is this discussed in the bentley manual? What, or better yet, where can i find info detailing the inspection and replacement of the cams?


----------



## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (shortydub)*

****.... big job... a near 2000$ job. This thing sucks. usually Vw engine are bulletproof, everything fail but the engine. This suck bad, this smell bad. How can you put the good and bad cam at random like this, some have a part number other dont http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif This is crap, pure crap. 
I dont know if I am paranoid but this look almost premedited, like if their wishes was to change a couple of engine after the 5 years warranty but busted their calculation and the part fail before their expectation.
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif If my cam lobe break and the dealer give me trouble because I have mod my next car is an STI.


_Modified by jeff2.0t at 2:12 PM 2-8-2008_


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_****.... big job... a near 2000$ job. This thing sucks. usually Vw engine are bulletproof, everything fail but the engine. This suck bad, this smell bad. How can you put the good and bad cam at random like this, some have a part number other dont http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif This is crap, pure crap. 
I dont know if I am paranoid but this look almost premedited, like if their wishes was to change a couple of engine after the 5 years warranty but busted their calculation and the part fail before their expectation.
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif If my cam lobe break and the dealer give me trouble because I have mod my next car is an STI.

_Modified by jeff2.0t at 2:12 PM 2-8-2008_


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

I don't see anyone mentioning what happens if someone doesn't have any failure signs yet, but also isn't sure about what cam he's got.
Is there any mileage limit where the cams are expected to fail ?As someone already mentioned, we can't keep checking our pumps..


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*

How many of these cams went bad?


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (fahrenheit 525)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fahrenheit 525* »_How many of these cams went bad?

Last German TPL was up to serial number 123350 for BPY. So I'd say it's in the range of 10-123350 or so. Not all engines will be affected, as it's been proven that some in the range have B versions.
Did the VofA TSB actually post the engine serial? I don't think I remember that it actually did. Maybe arin can google, I'm not on my main computer and we have been swamped here.


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## captain_meathook (Aug 12, 2007)

*Re: (fahrenheit 525)*

i'm at sea level 
2007 (build date 3/06) DSG
APR stg2.1 (newest file) 93octane
APR 3" DP with cat (heat wrapped from turbo to cat)
Stock cat-back exhaust, no resonator
Eurosport intake, ITG filter (also heat wrapped)
Stock FP, Stock (2nd one) C rev DV
Eurojet PCV
I've hit fuel cut on two occasions- 
The first time was on APR StgII 2.0 80(ish) mph, floor it- downshifts-starts winding up (maybe 100mph or so) then nothing. as in, would not take any amount of throttle. put it into manual mode, downshift, still would not take throttle. when i got down to around 65mph or so, things returned to normal. no CEL
Second time was the exact same circumstance. This time on the new 2.1 software that was curing everyones fuel cut issues.
?????
On a good note, my dealer rules. they said bring it in and they would check out the FP cam, no questions asked... 
Does the above sound like fuel cut to you? I just assumed it was... like i said, only happened those two times- 
Kyle


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_
Last German TPL was up to serial number 123350 for BPY. So I'd say it's in the range of 10-123350 or so. Not all engines will be affected, as it's been proven that some in the range have B versions.
Did the VofA TSB actually post the engine serial? I don't think I remember that it actually did. Maybe arin can google, I'm not on my main computer and we have been swamped here.


Any link regarding the german TPL? Whats BPY?
For the TSB they are saying all 2006 and 2007, no mention of serial number.
Mine is close to serial number 160 000 so this is a good news...


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*

What do you mean link? Do you have access to a german dealer network? TPL there means TSB here.
BPY is the engine code.
Your serial # is promising. For those curious, it's on the timing belt cover on the passenger side.


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_What do you mean link? 


I mean were did you find this info regarding the TPL?


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*

revo fuel pump file....coming out this week?


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## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

hmm, anyone got a copy of the TSB?


_Modified by bwzimmerman at 4:39 AM 2-10-2008_


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## 2zzge (Aug 16, 2006)

*Re: (LEWXCORE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LEWXCORE* »_revo fuel pump file....coming out this week?

talk to chris (at) revo.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (2zzge)*

most of the 123,000 cars are over seas not here very few made it to the american soil most of the bad cams were in 2005.5 audi's and some trickled into the 06 vw's but not many http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_most of the 123,000 cars are over seas not here very few made it to the american soil most of the bad cams were in 2005.5 audi's and some trickled into the 06 vw's but not many http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

It's for all BPY's. There are two unknowns that you should understand.
1. Not all of those made it to the USA
2. Not all of those had bad A version intake cams
The true number is unknown to us. All A cams may not be bad, that's why they will inspect and check for codes before just assuming it's a bad cam. 
Also isn't it weird that etka lists B's for all 06's but if you actually open up and look at the cam, it's an A.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_
Also isn't it weird that etka lists B's for all 06's but if you actually open up and look at the cam, it's an A.


etka only shows what the current revision if needed to be replaced is, it doesn't show what the car was built with


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Go back in time, repeat. I should have worded that clearer.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (LEWXCORE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LEWXCORE* »_revo fuel pump file....coming out this week?

Unfortunately this keeps getting pushed back, we are chipping away at it but have not had a change to give it a final thumbs up for distribution.
Its coming I promise, sorry for the delay


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## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

well stage 2 should keep people happy. No fuel cut here. REVO will make it right the first time, just be patient







Heck do a S3 turbo kit..


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_
Last German TPL was up to serial number 123350 for BPY. So I'd say it's in the range of 10-123350 or so. Not all engines will be affected, as it's been proven that some in the range have B versions.




_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
most of the 123,000 cars are over seas not here very few made it to the american soil most of the bad cams were in 2005.5 audi's and some trickled into the 06 vw's but not many 



_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_
It's for all BPY's. There are two unknowns that you should understand.
1. Not all of those made it to the USA
2. Not all of those had bad A version intake cams
The true number is unknown to us. All A cams may not be bad, that's why they will inspect and check for codes before just assuming it's a bad cam. 
Also isn't it weird that etka lists B's for all 06's but if you actually open up and look at the cam, it's an A.



Did I miss something?? Where did you get all that info, in a crystal ball








I trust you on this and I am happy about it if this problem is more an exception than a major common issue. But I would like to know more about your statement, you bring really good info. Is it your personal opinion, your personal opinion based on fact, rhumor or fact etc....
The german TPL? more info please...
most are audi? why?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_

most are audi? why?


They were hear about a year before any VW with the 2.0t. The A4 was out in fev/march of 05 as an 05.5
The A3 showed up last week of april as an 06.
No VWs showed up with them till much much later.
Still have not found any build date information on my actual engine, but it appears all my rods were made on jan 27th i think 05. So my engine was assembled sometime after that but before april 28th when I took delivery


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Still have not found any build date information on my actual engine, but it appears all my rods were made on jan 27th i think 05. So my engine was assembled sometime after that but before april 28th when I took delivery









Your Vin could provide some info... The info provided by syntrix regarding the german TPL give a range of number. 123 350...


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
Your Vin could provide some info... The info provided by syntrix regarding the german TPL give a range of number. 123 350...

The only way to get actual production dates of parts is on the parts themselves. 
I've worked at a dealer, nothing you can look up other then cars build date, in service date stuff like that and engine, trans suspension, etc codes.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_

Did I miss something?? Where did you get all that info, in a crystal ball








I trust you on this and I am happy about it if this problem is more an exception than a major common issue. But I would like to know more about your statement, you bring really good info. Is it your personal opinion, your personal opinion based on fact, rhumor or fact etc....
The german TPL? more info please...
most are audi? why?


But of course, I used my crystal ball. 
TPL in Germany is like a TSB in the USA. I believe that I already stated not only that, but there is no possible way to figure out how many engines have "soft" cams. 
edit: also agree with chris, there is no vin <---> cam relationship.


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## jamdub (Aug 1, 2007)

I did not see a copy of the TSB mentioned all over this thread anywhere, would some care to post it? Also, thanks for all of the very informative information in these pages, I guess I will wait to find out more information regarding this before upgrading my fuel pump.


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## ed j (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: (jamdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamdub* »_I did not see a copy of the TSB mentioned all over this thread anywhere, would some care to post it? Also, thanks for all of the very informative information in these pages, I guess I will wait to find out more information regarding this before upgrading my fuel pump.

http://www.goapr.com/images/15...b.pdf


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## jrigatoni (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: (ed j)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ed j* »_
http://www.goapr.com/images/15...b.pdf


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jamdub (Aug 1, 2007)

Thanks Ed j.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: (jamdub)*

bump for me still waiting for fuel pump specific software to come out!


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## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

REVO + KMD = power ... but when!


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: (bwzimmerman)*

kmd autotech apr whatever...i installed my pump 2 months ago and was told revo would have the tune 2 weeks from then.


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## coolstrybrah (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: (bwzimmerman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwzimmerman* »_REVO + KMD = power ... but when!

I want to know the same, its been a while. But what really worries me is the cam followers on these cars.


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## The Factor (Aug 2, 2007)

No fuel cuts here with my STAGE 2


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: Revo & Autotech Fuel Pump (f_399)*

ok....i've been waiting for like 3 months WHEN is revo making a file for the HPFP??????


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## bwzimmerman (Jun 16, 2007)

they are making it now







its when it will be released it the question. They have a full plate. I rather they make it stable and daily driver friendly.
Or, for them to release the GT3076R software


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: (bwzimmerman)*

ya i pm'd [email protected] about it, i think it's because of the failures and they're waiting on it.


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## Hightboostvr6t (Mar 25, 2008)

*Re: (LEWXCORE)*

it doesnt take 3 months to make a fuel pump file, revo just doesnt know how to make it work. 
some tuners already have a APR,Autotech,KMD pump files


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: (Hightboostvr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hightboostvr6t* »_it doesnt take 3 months to make a fuel pump file, revo just doesnt know how to make it work. 
some tuners already have a APR,Autotech,KMD pump files 

lol..Luis?


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## a3slvrchrgd (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*









[/QUOTE]
Whats the difference







? 







bam


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## nico81 (Jul 6, 2007)

uh oh! 2005.5 Audi A4 with APR KO4!
When I accelerate up steep hills in 4th or 5th I loose power at 4000RPM first the car feels like its struggling to accellerate more then power is cut as if I take my foot of accelerator then jab it on off then no power at all. RPM won't go aboe 3000 until I slow down. Is this fuel cut?
Getting Pump installed tomorrow. I don't know if I have good cam or bad cam.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Hightboostvr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hightboostvr6t* »_it doesnt take 3 months to make a fuel pump file, revo just doesnt know how to make it work. 
some tuners already have a APR,Autotech,KMD pump files 

Thats exactly what it is thanks for clearing that up for us..... There is not much to knowing how to make it work. Especially since all of our stage III cars around the world are running on upgraded pumps.
Actually all the cars we keep using for testing end up having issues or major changes done to them. We started on my car months ago and then I ripped the engine out and put a GT35R on it, which we have no idea how to tune. Then another car we were testing with in the middle we took out the stock turbo and put in a K04. The car we have in the office now testing with, one I stole the pump back since it was mine, and two is having some boost issues we are chasing down. 
The tuning is actually done for almost all of the rest of the world. We just need to finalize it here on our fuel and get some dynos up since people like to make a stink everytime we post something that may have been tested in the uk. Hopefully we can sort out the car here and get my pump back in it sometime this week and get it done.

Then there is the factor that half the people are taking their pumps out.


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## Hightboostvr6t (Mar 25, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Thats exactly what it is thanks for clearing that up for us..... There is not much to knowing how to make it work. Especially since all of our stage III cars around the world are running on upgraded pumps.
Actually all the cars we keep using for testing end up having issues or major changes done to them. We started on my car months ago and then I ripped the engine out and put a GT35R on it, which we have no idea how to tune. Then another car we were testing with in the middle we took out the stock turbo and put in a K04. The car we have in the office now testing with, one I stole the pump back since it was mine, and two is having some boost issues we are chasing down. 
The tuning is actually done for almost all of the rest of the world. We just need to finalize it here on our fuel and get some dynos up since people like to make a stink everytime we post something that may have been tested in the uk. Hopefully we can sort out the car here and get my pump back in it sometime this week and get it done.

Then there is the factor that half the people are taking their pumps out.

KMD claims that the have not had issues with them and they are revo dealers they say the been doing this for about 3 months so waz sup whats the hold up.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Hightboostvr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hightboostvr6t* »_
KMD claims that the have not had issues with them and they are revo dealers they say the been doing this for about 3 months so waz sup whats the hold up.


I have no idea what you are referring to because not one single dealer of ours is currently running any of our pump software.
If you are referring to the pumps themselves then that is one thing, we have not had any problems with pumps during testing, some excessive wear on the follower of one car here but not the pumps themselves. But that has nothing to do with the actual software.


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## f_399 (May 8, 2006)

yes, fp software please
thanks!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (f_399)*

Well to all those people thinking about not installing a pump, after all this hype, all i can say is i'm keeping mine in, cause the power difference i got even with stock software was well worth the money.
Plus, it so seems even stock you are not in clear waters, so what the heck...Just gonna have to check in every 5000 miles or so, and keep a follower handy.
Can't be much worse than that...


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*

huh power gains worth it?
are you running revo? if so what settings are you running


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (LEWXCORE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LEWXCORE* »_huh power gains worth it?
are you running revo? if so what settings are you running

As i said i'm running STOCK software, and still i felt a difference similar to a DP or intake install.I can imagine its gonna be even better with tuning software to go with it...


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## Hightboostvr6t (Mar 25, 2008)

*Re: (GolfRS)*

Listen Chris get your boys from revo to make a fuel pump file it will only take a couple of hours


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## VW03Getta (Jan 27, 2007)

*Re: (Hightboostvr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hightboostvr6t* »_Listen Chris get your boys from revo to make a fuel pump file it will only take a couple of hours

x2, if the ECU is cracked completely, then it should be no problemo!


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## Hightboostvr6t (Mar 25, 2008)

I think you guys cant do it


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## Hightboostvr6t (Mar 25, 2008)

*Re: (LEWXCORE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LEWXCORE* »_
lol..Luis?

whats going on


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Hightboostvr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hightboostvr6t* »_Listen Chris get your boys from revo to make a fuel pump file it will only take a couple of hours

I've made it very very very clear several times in this thread that its done, and has been done for a long time. Its not a matter of doing it. Its a matter of testing it. It doesn't appear you even have a mk5 let alone a 2.0t so I really don't see what your concern is at this point.
If you'd like to supply us with a mk5 2.0t to use for a week or two for some thorough testing them we'll have those dyno numbers for you.


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## SleepinGLI (Jan 20, 2008)

OoOo you can have mine! take it for a month.. just as long as i get it back with the 2-piece cam lol


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: (Hightboostvr6t)*

nothing bro still on my stock turbo waiting for this revo file haha


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