# Is a K04 upgrade worth it on a '13 CC 2.0T?



## ClarkGriswold (Dec 21, 2003)

Before I get into the meat of this post, let me give you some context and where my question is coming from. 

In the past, I had a '07 BMW 335i, with GIAC Stg. 1. With the upgrade, the 335i had approximately 370 hp and a lot of torque (I am putting down these figure from memory since it has been a few years. I may be off a bit, but it doesn't matter for the topic of this thread). One of the biggest issues with my setup was traction. I has some upgraded BBS wheels that gave me a little bit more wheel width in the rear. Even still that car lacked traction when you wanted to get on gas. The major problem with the 335i was the lack of a limited-slip differential. 

My question of the K04 with the FWD drivetrain is, is it worth it to do this power upgrade on a FWD car? I have a buddy with a '12 S4 with GIAC upgrades. He always tells me that a K04 upgrade wouldn't be worth it on the FWD CC due to traction issues. 

Agree? Disagree? Overall thoughts?


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

opcorn:


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## RadoCC (Apr 8, 2003)

Great question. I was always wondering this myself. Looking forward to some responses.


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## nozmadd0x (Sep 2, 2013)

Bear in mind I do not have a K04 nor have I riden in a vehicle with such an upgrade but this is what I was told by the master mechanic at my local dealer. He said stage 1 is great, you get that extra little something that makes your car feel like you did something worth while. He said the same with stage 2 but at that point you are starting to see more traction issues. With a stage 3 K04 he said it really depends on what you want to do with the car. From 0-70 there is a big issue with traction. But from 70-155 he said is an absolute blast. It can keep up with crotch-rockets and passing on the freeway is a breeze. In Ohio, getting caught doing over 100 is an arrestable offense and your vehicle will be impounded. So, as I already flirt with 100-120, I'm not sure I need the ability to get up to speed that quickly, plus I really don't want the traction issues. If they would have imported the 2.01 4motion to the U.S. I would have a different outlook but, with fwd, I just don't see it as something I would do. Just my two cents, plus I want to subscribe and see what people with the K04 have to say!


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

ClarkGriswold said:


> Before I get into the meat of this post, let me give you some context and where my question is coming from.
> 
> In the past, I had a '07 BMW 335i, with GIAC Stg. 1. With the upgrade, the 335i had approximately 370 hp and a lot of torque (I am putting down these figure from memory since it has been a few years. I may be off a bit, but it doesn't matter for the topic of this thread). One of the biggest issues with my setup was traction. I has some upgraded BBS wheels that gave me a little bit more wheel width in the rear. Even still that car lacked traction when you wanted to get on gas. The major problem with the 335i was the lack of a limited-slip differential.
> 
> ...


If you use Top Gear mentally, then a K04 is too much power through the front wheels. There is a reason why the S3 and Golf R handles better and faster than a Seat Leon Cupra R..... AWD.

if the CC's DSG is a 02E transmission, then Peloquins has a LSD for you.


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## ClarkGriswold (Dec 21, 2003)

I have read that the 2013 CC's have XDS limited-slip differential. Is that a real thing or is that false? If they do have it, is it even effective with the increased HP & Torque?

http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2013-volkswagen-cc-_-2011-la-auto-show/2000007478/ (Old article, but it makes mention towards the bottom about the XDS limited-slip differential for 2013).


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## sbkim (Mar 22, 2006)

I am struggling with traction even with stock setup (from stop) so I can't imagine with K04... May be better tires might help.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

ClarkGriswold said:


> I have read that the 2013 CC's have XDS limited-slip differential. Is that a real thing or is that false? If they do have it, is it even effective with the increased HP & Torque?
> 
> http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2013-volkswagen-cc-_-2011-la-auto-show/2000007478/ (Old article, but it makes mention towards the bottom about the XDS limited-slip differential for 2013).


One of my buddies has a K04'd MK6 GTI... with the XDS.... he can't do a full acceleration from a stop because he's fighting for traction. On the highway, that's a different story, then he can use the full power of the K04 tune without having traction as a limiting issue.

XDS? You'll have to check with a VCDS, probably in the Brakes module (is my best guess)


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## NateSVT (Feb 21, 2008)

nozmadd0x said:


> It can keep up with crotch-rockets and passing on the freeway is a breeze.



Lmao.


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

I've never experienced a K04 on a VW, but have raced a few with my Cobalt SS Turbocharged. They were really close to matching my Cobalt's performance so If speed is what you're after, then I'd say go for it.

I'd also say keep price and use in mind. Reason why I left the Cobalt was because after the thrill wore off, I was left with a pretty crappy ride since 90% of my driving was within the speed limit and 8% of my fun was on the track that was open 4-5 months out of the year. The other 2% was me just being a dick on the road or wanting to feel the thrill. 

So I'd say consider the same too, how much are you really gonna use the K04. Why do you want to spend money on it?



NateSVT said:


> Lmao.


:laugh: second


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## nozmadd0x (Sep 2, 2013)

NateSVT said:


> Lmao.


That's what I was told by the master mechanic. I clearly stated I have no experience with it and was just relaying info.


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## NUISANCECC (Mar 11, 2012)

Yes and no. To be able to use the turbo to it's fullest you need a suspension and new tires. If you just slap it on an otherwise stock car then don't even bother because you won't be able to use the power you have cause yes you will spin. 

It can be installed with minimal mods supporting mods just have to watch how you drive it.


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## 08GraniteGreenPassat (May 16, 2009)

Yes it's worth it... You have to look at it like this, the 2.0t with k04 is no longer a 4cyl engine, it is now a full fledge v8 plane and simple.. Drive it just like a v8; ride on that everlasting torque curve oops I mean torque straight. Would you hop in a new mustang with that 5.0 floor the throttle and expect to have traction? Power corrupts. DONT NOBODY WANT WAR WITH A k04 PASSAT!...or CC.


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

Ridden and drove every bolt on k04 09 mk5 DSG GTI that with stock tires it blew through 1st and 2nd into 3rd spinning. Once he put pilot super sports on it but started to gain full traction in mid 2nd gear. I think LSD would be a lot better.


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## RadoCC (Apr 8, 2003)

08GraniteGreenPassat said:


> Yes it's worth it... You have to look at it like this, the 2.0t with k04 is no longer a 4cyl engine, it is now a full fledge v8 plane and simple.. Drive it just like a v8; ride on that everlasting torque curve oops I mean torque straight. Would you hop in a new mustang with that 5.0 floor the throttle and expect to have traction? Power corrupts. DONT NOBODY WANT WAR WITH A k04 PASSAT!...or CC.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

Especially if you're at altitude. My Cobalt stock was faster than a PTO without any issues. 

***Edit***

WOW!!! SwiftKey is too Damn aggressive of a keyboard! 

Replace PTO with GTO lol

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## RadoCC (Apr 8, 2003)

NUISANCECC said:


> Yes and no. To be able to use the turbo to it's fullest you need a suspension and new tires. If you just slap it on an otherwise stock car then don't even bother because you won't be able to use the power you have cause yes you will spin.
> 
> It can be installed with minimal mods supporting mods just have to watch how you drive it.


Is it recommended to get software? I know, silly question. But I've never really dealt with forced induction before. I would love to slap a K04 on and nothing else.


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

RadoCC said:


> Is it recommended to get software? I know, silly question. But I've never really dealt with forced induction before. I would love to slap a K04 on and nothing else.


ko4 and nothing else is going to be hard to enjoy anything, just wheel spinning and wheel hoppin, lots twisting on the original mounts, depend on your climate wout a bigger fmi overheating...wot springs or even better coils again not much traction, most important tires...o yes and what about breaks to slow you down...just my .02.


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## RadoCC (Apr 8, 2003)

airmax1 said:


> ko4 and nothing else is going to be hard to enjoy anything, just wheel spinning and wheel hoppin, lots twisting on the original mounts, depend on your climate wout a bigger fmi overheating...wot springs or even better coils again not much traction, most important tires...o yes and what about breaks to slow you down...just my .02.


That's exactly info I needed to know. :thumbup:


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

RadoCC said:


> That's exactly info I needed to know. :thumbup:


Happy to help, from my first mod I know I was going Ko4, is extremely fun to ride my CC now, speed is insane and I'm constantly doing over 30 mpg...


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## ClarkGriswold (Dec 21, 2003)

airmax1 said:


> Happy to help, from my first mod I know I was going Ko4, is extremely fun to ride my CC now, speed is insane and I'm constantly doing over 30 mpg...
> 
> 
> Sent from Max's iPhone using Tapatalk -


What exactly is your set up? Any engine issues? What was the cost, if you don't mind me asking?


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

ClarkGriswold said:


> What exactly is your set up? Any engine issues? What was the cost, if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


My signature is my set-up, no engine issue, I stop counting the $$$ from long time :beer: happy new year to all, keep it modding! 


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## Jaywaterski (Dec 11, 2012)

*Stage 3'even stronger than k04 and wow yes it is worth it*

Running stage 3 with mods below Wavetrac LSD make the huge difference would recommend for both k04 and above tunes in 3 gear when I step on it at 40 it can make both wheels spin


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## NUISANCECC (Mar 11, 2012)

RadoCC said:


> Is it recommended to get software? I know, silly question. But I've never really dealt with forced induction before. I would love to slap a K04 on and nothing else.


Yes, you need it. If you don't have software now just do the K04 and software at the same time.


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## Toma23 (Jun 20, 2011)

Ko4 is nice power , but honestly I wish I did gt28/30 which I probably will do next year 

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## divineVR6 (Mar 21, 2002)

go home your drunk


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## Toma23 (Jun 20, 2011)

I hope ur not referring to my post ??

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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

go for it but watch out lots of 13s got weak valve springs.... which is additional 1500-2000 on top of ko4


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

It is a ton of wheel spin in the winter. I spin through third easily on the cold/salty roads of the east coast. First and second are a ton of wheel spin in the summer too though. Second is more manageable on good tires, but still easy to break loose. In all honesty, its not necessary in my short commute/cold condition. I toggle between stock and tuned mode all the time. I'm perfectly happy running on stock map.

I also am on coils btw, which helps. If you aren't tuned, I'd look into unitronic stage 2. It's practically K04 power but w/o the big HP numbers. I'll tell you one thing though, this car is DREAM to drive on the highway. I drive a GTI btw, but same weight, same motor, same sht.



Stero1D said:


> go for it but watch out lots of 13s got weak valve springs.... which is additional 1500-2000 on top of ko4


Would cause the flutter, huh? Is that a serious issue or just annoying? I think APR made an adjustment to their software to get around the surging/fluttering issue.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

I am k04'd with a wavetrac LSD and running the Conti DW tires.

On warm pavement I can break the tires free in 2nd gear, but not in third. In first, its hard to get it to the pavement without spinning. With some practice, 95% traction in 2nd gear is easy to get with throttle control (pedal).

Once temps drop below 60 degrees things change progressively and below 40 degrees I can break the tires free in 3rd gear.

The Conti's are not the best tire for straight line traction control, but ohhh they are sweet for warmer weather cornering. As someone said, the super sports maybe a better option. At least for straight line acceleration.

To me, the k04 is a dream. Maybe its because of my supporting mods (click sig) that and I am able to take advantage of it. In my opinion, you can not fully enjoy the k04 with out working on the suspension some. Not to mention the other engine hardware modifications that the tuners specify.

At the end of the day, the torq/$ is unbeatable and can make your car a totally different machine. Well worth it in my opinion!


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## ClarkGriswold (Dec 21, 2003)

I assume that the DSG transmission does just fine with the K04 upgrade? Or does that need some additional help?


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## waltern (Jan 9, 2013)

Don't get K04, you will hate it.


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

waltern said:


> Don't get K04, you will hate it.


Lmao!


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## Xaero (Sep 1, 2012)

I too came from a tuned 335i (e92). That car was fast as balls. I am sad every time I mash the peddle in my CC, however I am still able to spin the wheels if I smash it from a stop. FWD sucks, and is my biggest beef with this car.


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## ClarkGriswold (Dec 21, 2003)

Xaero said:


> I too came from a tuned 335i (e92). That car was fast as balls. I am sad every time I mash the peddle in my CC, however I am still able to spin the wheels if I smash it from a stop. FWD sucks, and is my biggest beef with this car.


I miss the raw speed of the 335i. I had one of the original twin turbo E90's before they switched it to the twin-scroll turbocharger. I eventually got rid of it due to be stranded too many times with a bad HPFP. BMW replaced three of them for me. Even though they extended the warranty on the fuel pump to 100k, I was sick of it going out. Once BMW changed the make-up of that car, no one was interested in manufacturing an aftermarket HPFP that actually worked. If there is one now, then great. I got sick of waiting.


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

ClarkGriswold said:


> Before I get into the meat of this post, let me give you some context and where my question is coming from.
> 
> In the past, I had a '07 BMW 335i, with GIAC Stg. 1. With the upgrade, the 335i had approximately 370 hp and a lot of torque (I am putting down these figure from memory since it has been a few years. I may be off a bit, but it doesn't matter for the topic of this thread). One of the biggest issues with my setup was traction. I has some upgraded BBS wheels that gave me a little bit more wheel width in the rear. Even still that car lacked traction when you wanted to get on gas. The major problem with the 335i was the lack of a limited-slip differential.
> 
> ...


Is it worth it? I would say that it all depends on why you are doing it. If your goal is to have your CC perform better, I would say no because traction will be your primary problem or hurdle that you will have to overcome.

The stock turbo with a tune easily can create 290lbs of torque at the crank, which will break traction on most performance tires easily, therefore the turbo upgrade will just amplify the problem three fold. Furthermore, the OEM DSG transmission clutches will not last long after the upgrade. The manual version could handle the turbo upgrade, but I would not risk it with the stock DSG transmission. However, these problems can be solved with an aftermarket LSD and upgraded DSG clutch packs, so if you got the money than traction and the DSG should not be a problem.

If your goal is to just have it installed for bragging rights, and really do not care about any real performance gains than yes, get it and show off at the next VW meet:thumbup:


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## DaBz1981 (Oct 8, 2010)

Carguy10 said:


> Is it worth it? I would say that it all depends on why you are doing it. If your goal is to have your CC perform better, I would say no because traction will be your primary problem or hurdle that you will have to overcome.
> 
> The stock turbo with a tune easily can create 290lbs of torque at the crank, which will break traction on most performance tires easily, therefore the turbo upgrade will just amplify the problem three fold. Furthermore, the OEM DSG transmission clutches will not last long after the upgrade. The manual version could handle the turbo upgrade, but I would not risk it with the stock DSG transmission. However, these problems can be solved with an aftermarket LSD and upgraded DSG clutch packs, so if you got the money than traction and the DSG should not be a problem.
> 
> If your goal is to just have it installed for bragging rights, and really do not care about any real performance gains than yes, get it and show off at the next VW meet:thumbup:


totally agree, except showing off a K04 while the car is parked is kind of hard lol.


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Carguy10 said:


> Is it worth it? I would say that it all depends on why you are doing it. If your goal is to have your CC perform better, I would say no because traction will be your primary problem or hurdle that you will have to overcome.
> 
> The stock turbo with a tune easily can create 290lbs of torque at the crank, which will break traction on most performance tires easily, therefore the turbo upgrade will just amplify the problem three fold. Furthermore, the OEM DSG transmission clutches will not last long after the upgrade. The manual version could handle the turbo upgrade, but I would not risk it with the stock DSG transmission. However, these problems can be solved with an aftermarket LSD and upgraded DSG clutch packs, so if you got the money than traction and the DSG should not be a problem.
> 
> If your goal is to just have it installed for bragging rights, and really do not care about any real performance gains than yes, get it and show off at the next VW meet:thumbup:


I understand that everyone is in title of they own opinion, kinda funny that 2 VR6 car guy's agree in something that don't have any experience on it or maybe they are just jealous? Any how all this negativity and advises from VR6 guys are not the reality of the beast. In a fwd car u have traction issue even with a TDI!!!, with ko4 is all about the supporting modifications that keep you for having wheel spin. All the "transmission clutches" they are not a problem even now that I'm at 360lbs of torque. I'm driving STG2 for 33k miles and Ko4 for 6k miles without any issue. looking forward to see you Saturday at the meet! 



DaBz1981 said:


> totally agree, except showing off a K04 while the car is parked is kind of hard lol.


I mod and tune the cars my for every day driving pleasure, i don't go to meeting for showing off, i just love tune cars and the performances reward that give us. Everyone drives stocks cars or with a few lights bolt on, is just a choice. This forum is about modifications and fun i always trying to keep that way and also trying to give advises to ppl that ask for because i have that particular mod in my car and i can talk about in first person.


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## Toma23 (Jun 20, 2011)

DSG clutches can handle even GT30 , ko4 without any issues , currently im running ko4 with stage 2dsg software by unitronic , as matter of fact I spoke with unitronic couple days ago , since im thinking og uprgrading my turbo to GT28RS he assured me that the dsg can handle that power without any issues just traction will be a major issue with all the power that gt28 will put out 

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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

airmax1 said:


> I understand that everyone is in title of they own opinion, kinda funny that 2 VR6 car guy's agree in something that don't have any experience on it or maybe they are just jealous? Any how all this negativity and advises from VR6 guys are not the reality of the beast. In a fwd car u have traction issue even with a TDI!!!, with ko4 is all about the supporting modifications that keep you for having wheel spin. All the "transmission clutches" they are not a problem even now that I'm at 360lbs of torque. I'm driving STG2 for 33k miles and Ko4 for 6k miles without any issue. looking forward to see you Saturday at the meet!
> 
> 
> 
> I mod and tune the cars my for every day driving pleasure, i don't go to meeting for showing off, i just love tune cars and the performances reward that give us. Everyone drives stocks cars or with a few lights bolt on, is just a choice. This forum is about modifications and fun i always trying to keep that way and also trying to give advises to ppl that ask for because i have that particular mod in my car and i can talk about in first person.


Man there is too much drama on this forum:banghead: The OP asked what people take on installing a K04 turbo is and I gave mine. It is not my fault that people here on this forum is so sensitive to every point of view that goes against their mods. i never said that it was bad to install one, however to get the most out of the mod a CC owner will have to beef-up a few other parts. I used to own a stage 1 APR 93 octane chipped 2006 GLI so I have researched the K04 mod, therefore yes I now i little about the pros and cons of installing one and the debate about the long- reliability of the DSG after adding more torque. 

I am not envious of the 2.0T at all, trust me, if I wanted one I could have bought one a lot cheaper than the 3.6. I traded in a Mercedes E55AMG ( 4 second to 60mph car stock) for Christ sakes because it was over kill for the stop and go traffic here in Atlanta, which you know about, so I am good on the 2.0T issue.

I do mean offense in this statement, you guys need to grown up or develop some thicker skin. Everyone on this forum is not going to pat you on the back for every high dollar mod you put on your car.

And no, I will not attend the meet. I have better things to do than argue over non-sense because I am not impressed by your car.

P.S. I did recommend the supporting mods in my post that the OP should consider if he wants to install the K04. Also, 6k miles is not an indicator of long-term reliability for the DSG in your car. I want to know how it holds up after about 60K miles, because you may have the money to burn if the clutches start slipping, but some other owner may not be as fortunate. So, that is why i give a second opinion about mods like that so people hear the pros and cons.


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## airmax1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Carguy10 said:


> Man there is too much drama on this forum:banghead: The OP asked what people take on installing a K04 turbo is and I gave mine. It is not my fault that people here on this forum is so sensitive to every point of view that goes against their mods. i never said that it was bad to install one, however to get the most out of the mod a CC owner will have to beef-up a few other parts. I used to own a stage 1 APR 93 octane chipped 2006 GLI so I have researched the K04 mod, therefore yes I now i little about the pros and cons of installing one and the debate about the long- reliability of the DSG after adding more torque.
> 
> I am not envious of the 2.0T at all, trust me, if I wanted one I could have bought one a lot cheaper than the 3.6. I traded in a Mercedes E55AMG ( 4 second to 60mph car stock) for Christ sakes because it was over kill for the stop and go traffic here in Atlanta, which you know about, so I am good on the 2.0T issue.
> 
> ...


Chill dude, don't be like that, i was looking forward to see you and discuss about "Having trouble finding a jack point? ECS has a solution for you"...
Funny how you keep insisting giving the OP advises only from your "reading experiences":banghead::screwy:


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

airmax1 said:


> Chill dude, don't be like that, i was looking forward to see you and discuss about "Having trouble finding a jack point? ECS has a solution for you"...
> Funny how you keep insisting giving the OP advises only from your "reading experiences":banghead::screwy:


True, i did not install a K04 turbo, but I use simple logic in addition to my research of what others like yourself who have reportedly done. The 2.0T CC is a front drive car that is prone to torque-steer and wheel-spin even on the stock set-up. So, I guess I am just foolish not to believe that adding more torque will make the car better to drive.

However, I do not have one installed so you would be the best owner to give feedback on how it performs on the CC.

But be honest, is there a question about how long the DSG clutches will last after increasing the torque? I have not read or talk to anyone who had a high mileage blown 2.0T CC with the DSG(over 100k). You and others on this forum are the guinea pigs who will let us know over time if it is good in the long term.:thumbup:

However, who really keep cars that long anymore. You will probably trade yours in for a newer more powerful models in a few years or so,therefore we will probably never know how long the DSG clutches will last with the K04, unless someone on this forum buys the car from your later and be left with the problem if one occurs. 

I am not hating on any mod, I like high powered car myself, but I like to give both sides of the fence about a mod. Yes, the K04 will make the CC more powerful,no doubt, but it does have some potential drawbacks that needs to be considered. I know that it not popular to be the one that brings that up, but damn some of you get a little defensive about hearing about them. Some mods usually have pros and cons or are just plain useless. Keep it real and stop pretending that the mods are perfect all the time. I am not saying that it should not be done, just make sure it is done right if you do it.:thumbup:

You live in congested Atlanta, so tell the truth, where or when do you have to opportunity to really benefit from the K04 mod? 

As you can see, I like to debate:laugh:


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

Carguy10 said:


> Is it worth it? I would say that it all depends on why you are doing it. If your goal is to have your CC perform better, I would say no because traction will be your primary problem or hurdle that you will have to overcome.
> 
> The stock turbo with a tune easily can create 290lbs of torque at the crank, which will break traction on most performance tires easily, therefore the turbo upgrade will just amplify the problem three fold. Furthermore, the OEM DSG transmission clutches will not last long after the upgrade. The manual version could handle the turbo upgrade, but I would not risk it with the stock DSG transmission. However, these problems can be solved with an aftermarket LSD and upgraded DSG clutch packs, so if you got the money than traction and the DSG should not be a problem.
> 
> If your goal is to just have it installed for bragging rights, and really do not care about any real performance gains than yes, get it and show off at the next VW meet:thumbup:


Agree minus the DSG thing you mentioned. I don't agree w/ that. I think the DSG can handle much more power. Unlike the 6sp clutch which blows donkey and goes out after stage 2. 

In all honesty, I would go with Uni Stage 2. It gives oodles of torque (close to K04 levels) and makes it a blast to drive. In the winter, I blow the tires right off way too easily... I keep it in stock mode quite often during the winter because I really don't need all that extra grunt. I'm not unhappy with my K04, I love it... but it's definitely not needed for local driving (I have a 10mi commute). Start w/ stage 2 and go from there.



DaBz1981 said:


> totally agree, except showing off a K04 while the car is parked is kind of hard lol.


Haha.


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

lilfleck said:


> Agree minus the DSG thing you mentioned. I don't agree w/ that. I think the DSG can handle much more power. Unlike the 6sp clutch which blows donkey and goes out after stage 2.
> 
> In all honesty, I would go with Uni Stage 2. It gives oodles of torque (close to K04 levels) and makes it a blast to drive. In the winter, I blow the tires right off way too easily... I keep it in stock mode quite often during the winter because I really don't need all that extra grunt. I'm not unhappy with my K04, I love it... but it's definitely not needed for local driving (I have a 10mi commute). Start w/ stage 2 and go from there.
> 
> ...


You are the third person today who says that the DSG can handle it. Damn, maybe i should reconsider my thoughts on it. I traded my old GLI when it had about 75K miles on it in because i was concerned about the DSG clutches going out due to the extra torque the APR tune gave it. I admit that is has been a few years since I read about the DSG, so maybe I am wrong.


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## MikeinNJ (May 9, 2007)

Carguy10 said:


> You are the third person today who says that the DSG can handle it. Damn, maybe i should reconsider my thoughts on it. I traded my old GLI when it had about 75K miles on it in because i was concerned about the DSG clutches going out due to the extra torque the APR tune gave it. I admit that is has been a few years since I read about the DSG, so maybe I am wrong.


Yeah, I have heard from many that the DSG is very 'overbuilt' and clutch packs aren't an issue until getting around the 600+ HP range. I've heard this from many at meets and was assured this by Ken P, service manager at Linden VW (They are a mod friendly dealer/performance shop/HPA distributor/forum sponsor here). They have several shop cars running big turbo kits and K04, some with close to 100k and no issues with stock DSG clutch packs. It's always the 6spd trans that needs the southbend clutch after just going stage II. Traction and intercooler upgrade would be my main concerns in going K04. :beer:

Also, I've been presented with the opportunity to transfer my office location to Dallas or Atlanta. Definitely taking Atlanta off the list after reading on here. I know Texas has those 85mph speed limit roads too... decisions decisions..


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

MikeinNJ said:


> Yeah, I have heard from many that the DSG is very 'overbuilt' and clutch packs aren't an issue until getting around the 600+ HP range. I've heard this from many at meets and was assured this by Ken P, service manager at Linden VW (They are a mod friendly dealer/performance shop/HPA distributor/forum sponsor here). They have several shop cars running big turbo kits and K04, some with close to 100k and no issues with stock DSG clutch packs. It's always the 6spd trans that needs the southbend clutch after just going stage II. Traction and intercooler upgrade would be my main concerns in going K04. :beer:
> 
> Also, I've been presented with the opportunity to transfer my office location to Dallas or Atlanta. Definitely taking Atlanta off the list after reading on here. I know Texas has those 85mph speed limit roads too... decisions decisions..


Why are you put off by Atlanta? It does have a strong VW community with many tuning locations. I do not use them really, but I am sure many owners on this forum does.


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## MikeinNJ (May 9, 2007)

Carguy10 said:


> Why are you put off by Atlanta? It does have a strong VW community with many tuning locations. I do not use them really, but I am sure many owners on this forum does.


I've driven through it many times, the traffic is horrendous; and this is coming from someone outside of NYC. Though, I DO like the Atlanta music scene and have several friends in the area. Those highway bypasses though...

Not sure if I'm going to go at all. My company does have a partnership with Georgia Tech, I would be able to go to grad school there for next to nothing.


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

MikeinNJ said:


> I've driven through it many times, the traffic is horrendous; and this is coming from someone outside of NYC. Though, I DO like the Atlanta music scene and have several friends in the area. Those highway bypasses though...
> 
> Not sure if I'm going to go at all. My company does have a partnership with Georgia Tech, I would be able to go to grad school there for next to nothing.


True. The traffic is bad here. You will spend more time idling than actually driving the speed limit during the day. However, at night the traffic thins out. I would move here just for the cheap Grad school perk at Georgia Tech alone, then you can move again if you like when you graduate:thumbup:


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## vwek (Mar 9, 2013)

Okay, I kind of skimmed the posts in this thread, sorry, but I do have a bit of knowledge in this area to share. Getting a real mechanical helical/torsen differential is a must in a high power FWD vehicle. Flaring the fenders is optional to get maximum track width, but I believe you can atleast remove the fender liners in these vehicles similar to the mk6 (don't flame if I'm wrong, I really haven't looked that closely, nor do I own a mk6). As you've seen around here a 18x9 will for sure clear and give a decent amount of tire upfront. Corner balancing with a decent set of coilovers will also really help front end grip combined with proper alignment. My thoughts have been since the CC already has a track width and wheelbase gain over the GTI it should able to be able to sustain even higher lateral grip. Finding a shop to install a LSD in a DSG may be difficult in your area if you aren't equipped with a manual. I have a feeling a lot of the violent launch behavior with wheel hop also has to do with the insensitivity of an ABS based "e-diff"/XDS. This system is decent but the brake system is simply not equipped with sensors fine enough to apply torque in a manner similar to a helical/torsen LSD. Retaining around a 60/40 weight balance (variations like 61/39 can even handle better and give you a better polar moment; talk to a specialist, I really don't know that much) will give you better front end grip.


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## DaBz1981 (Oct 8, 2010)

airmax1 said:


> ....kinda funny that 2 VR6 car guy's agree in something that don't have any experience on it or maybe they are just jealous?


No. My wife's MK5 GTI is k04 so I don't have the need to be jealous of anything as I drive the car often.



airmax1 said:


> Any how all this negativity and advises from VR6 guys are not the reality of the beast.


No one is being negative man, relax lol.


It's hard to tell by your tone if you found my comment offensive or something, myself being a "VR6 guy" and all . However, I speak from personal experience. What I meant by my comment is that the k04 upgrade/mod as great as it is, is not a visible mod. Meaning, if you don't tell people you have it, no one would ever know, therefore it is hard to "show it off" parked, at a car show non the less... and then there're those who don't believe you until they see it in action. 

:beer:


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

Xaero said:


> I too came from a tuned 335i (e92). That car was fast as balls. I am sad every time I mash the peddle in my CC, however I am still able to spin the wheels if I smash it from a stop. FWD sucks, and is my biggest beef with this car.


Geeeeeeeeze. The advantages and disadvantages of a front drive four cylinder with a decent turbo should be a known. Correction, they are well known.

Enjoy your car. Or, find something you can. No harsh tones intended 

_Edit: forgot to specify "front-drive"_


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## J.Iverson (May 15, 2012)

I absolutely love how the KO4 transformed my car. It would be the first mod I did if I got another CC. Yes I can spin the tires at will, but feathering the throttle and rolling starts make the car a fun daily driver. I don't live in traffic, I have a 17 mile rural commute. I do run pilot super sports in the summer and blizzaks in the winter which helps. I do agree, if they offered the 2.0T in awd it would be a beast with KO4.


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

I think it's worth it.

I used to have a MK6 GTI with a Ko4... and it was a blast. The XDS definitely helped put the power down along with engine and trans mounts and dog bone mount and caster kit.

Sold the GTI and moved the Ko4 into my wife's VW CC. I also moved the VF Engineering Dog Bone mount into the CC and it has Pilot Super Sports. Having the open diff does limit traction a little more, but it is definitely still very fun to drive. 

Since the torque comes on much earlier, it feels funner than my E90 M3 on city streets and seems to have more passing power while staying in gear on the freeway. My M3 otoh has more top end power and will walk away from the CC... but I have to be pretty high in the redline with it.

If you mash the CC's pedal from a stoplight... you do have to keep a firm grip on the wheel because the power will keep shifting left to right to left fairly significantly.

My wife seems to love it although she won't admit it. Since I installed it, she seems to want to race every car on the road and she beats them. She's also gotten pulled over numerous times, but somehow gets out of her tickets. Probably the most powerful car she's driven (I won't teach her manual so she can't drive my M3).

I think a good combination would be the Ko4, Dog Bone mount, sticky tires, and DSG software (just so in D mode it will shift a higher in the Ko4's sweet spot... otherwise the Ko4 will feel like it lags... unless you are in manual mode)

Eventually I'll probably add a wavetrack LSD to her car


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## waltern (Jan 9, 2013)

J.Iverson said:


> I absolutely love how the KO4 transformed my car. It would be the first mod I did if I got another CC. Yes I can spin the tires at will, but feathering the throttle and rolling starts make the car a fun daily driver. I don't live in traffic, I have a 17 mile rural commute. I do run pilot super sports in the summer and blizzaks in the winter which helps. I do agree, if they offered the 2.0T in awd it would be a beast with KO4.


Did the soft compound tires help much with wheel spin? I have been considering putting 245/35/19 Yokohama Advan AD08R to see if wheel spin can be cured.


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## Toma23 (Jun 20, 2011)

Waltern if you do please keep us posted , I have issues keeping my car in place just wants to walk all over the road too much torque steer and wheel spin , I know the roads are cold but I think still gonna have hard time gripping with current tires 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## J.Iverson (May 15, 2012)

waltern said:


> Did the soft compound tires help much with wheel spin? I have been considering putting 245/35/19 Yokohama Advan AD08R to see if wheel spin can be cured.




It is a huge help on hot asphalt. It didn't cure it, but greatly helped it. You can literally feel the road with them.


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## raakpatel (May 28, 2009)

*Well WOrth it*

Hey the K04 upgrade is well worth it even though its FWD. Mine is a 2014 CC with about 327HP at the front wheels. Let me say it will FLY.


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## BMOREGLI (Dec 12, 2006)

For those with the KO4, who did you end up going with?


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## daren7 (Mar 17, 2013)

*VW CC 2.0T K04 upgrade*

I have a 2013 CC with the KO4 and it's awesome! Yes... traction is an issue and you have to feather the throttle until about 50 mph but when you stand on it it really rips! If you want something you can floor anytime you want, and have it hook up then do not do this upgrade... get an audi and open your wallet for other issues.... if you want to embarrass a lot of people on on-ramps and on the freeway and have them wonder what in the %$&*# you have under the hood it's a blast. I also have a 3" SS downpipe, APR K04 Tune, colder plugs, red coils, Intake, Intercooler, disharge pipes etc... I have 160k on the car now and did the tune at 45k so it's incredibly safe and durable. Just change your DSG fluid every 20k or so and keep Mobile 1 0-40 oil in it. My car has no smoke, no issues, and the only thing I've had to do is rotate/replace tires more often and replace both front half-shafts and upper and lower ball joints to beefier units when they shredded the seals or spun the bearing out of them  Do it! and then practice your driving skills so you don't spin and look like you're trying too hard.


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