# A3 prestige overnight



## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

I ordered an a3 prestige with sport package thinking I'd replace my golf r with it. 
It showed up at the dealer 2 days ago. I kept it overnight last night, to see if I'd actually get it. 
Overall it was a pretty nice car. I like the nav and stereo a lot. I could get use to the dsg. I can't really complain about much in terms of it, I like it.
Obviously power is less than the golf, stage 2 no HPFP. But it does seem quicker than what I was expecting for its rating. If/when stage 1 came around I'd be satisfied...
My one gripe... The led headlights, they suck. I have horrible night vision, and with the golf xenons night driving is fine. The a3 LEDs on the other hand were downright horrible. Bad enough that it's holding me back from getting the car. I have no experience with these type of headlights, I thought they would be better than xenons? My wife's forester lights seem about equal, minus the nice white color from the LEDs.
I've got some time to think about the deal, but it's really keeping me from getting it. I will not get one without all the options it has, minus the lights obviously. 
Thinking I might wait it out for the s3 and hope the $41k model can be had with normal xenons...

Kind of a rant thread, but thought I'd give my 2 cents on my experience...


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## DavidCz1992 (Apr 9, 2014)

Now bad LED's meaning what exactly, their blinding your eyes or there not as bright as you would have hoped? I would totally get the car, but if the lights are that much of an issue then by all means go with whats easier on your eyes. 

Do you also remember by some chance how the ground clearance for the car was? Wanted to get the prestige w/ sport package but dont know how low it would be to the ground.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Heretic:GTI said:


> I ordered an a3 prestige with sport package thinking I'd replace my golf r with it.
> It showed up at the dealer 2 days ago. I kept it overnight last night, to see if I'd actually get it.
> Overall it was a pretty nice car. I like the nav and stereo a lot. I could get use to the dsg. I can't really complain about much in terms of it, I like it.
> Obviously power is less than the golf, stage 2 no HPFP. But it does seem quicker than what I was expecting for its rating. If/when stage 1 came around I'd be satisfied...
> ...


Interesting. You're probably one of the first in the US to have experienced the LEDs. Do they just not seem as bright or as widely broadcast as HIDs?

The Premium Plus S3 should be without LED headlamps if Audi holds the line on packages like we expect them to do.


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

DavidCz1992 said:


> Now bad LED's meaning what exactly, their blinding your eyes or there not as bright as you would have hoped? I would totally get the car, but if the lights are that much of an issue then by all means go with whats easier on your eyes.
> 
> Do you also remember by some chance how the ground clearance for the car was? Wanted to get the prestige w/ sport package but dont know how low it would be to the ground.


They suck as in dim, very dim. My wife's forester halogens seemed equal in light output, and I never drive her car at night. Lasik eye surgery fixed my sight, but ruined my night vision (still the best money I ever spent)

Ground clearance was 4x4. It did not have the sport suspension. Only had seats and paddle shifters. It was ordered around February. Side by side to the r, the wheel gap was pretty similar between both cars. The s line kit makes it appear lower than the non s line cars, but not by much.


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## DavidCz1992 (Apr 9, 2014)

go check out another prestige and see if it has the same issue, they might let you put down a deposit or something on a prestige that you want if the lights are in fact dimmer than those on another car. Kind of strange to have this kind of problem tho


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## Drof (Jun 27, 2013)

Dan Halen said:


> Interesting. You're probably one of the first in the US to have experienced the LEDs. Do they just not seem as bright or as widely broadcast as HIDs?
> 
> The Premium Plus S3 should be without LED headlamps if Audi holds the line on packages like we expect them to do.


so are the led headlights a standalone option also? or do you have to get the prestige model to get the headlights?


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> Interesting. You're probably one of the first in the US to have experienced the LEDs. Do they just not seem as bright or as widely broadcast as HIDs?
> 
> The Premium Plus S3 should be without LED headlamps if Audi holds the line on packages like we expect them to do.


On my garage door the cutoff seemed very hid like. The light color is really nice and white. The foglights are also pretty nice. Good coverage on both side areas of the front. My first thought was they might be misaligned, which wasn't the case. I'm probably more sensitive than most, others might think they are fine. I personally would take hids over the LEDs. 

I'm hoping you're right about the premium plus...


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

DavidCz1992 said:


> go check out another prestige and see if it has the same issue, they might let you put down a deposit or something on a prestige that you want if the lights are in fact dimmer than those on another car. Kind of strange to have this kind of problem tho


Only prestige on the lot. It isn't necessarily a problem for everyone. I'm assuming they're just not as bright as xenons....
Others may like them better, all down to personal preference. 


I work at the dealer.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

LEDs are standard on Prestige. Otherwise not available, at least as of right now


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

This is super interesting. I wanted the LED's and that is something I was quite specifically looking for since I was told they would be better then the Xenons.

I think I am in the same boat as you, once I went Xenon with one of my cars, I will never go back to halogen because I seriously don't see well at night. I even missed a 350 lbs man crossing the road at night while I was turning left...I thought he was behind my A pilar, but he was 350 lbs...

Are you sure it wasn't in DRL mode vs low beam? what about high beam?


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

Rudy_H said:


> This is super interesting. I wanted the LED's and that is something I was quite specifically looking for since I was told they would be better then the Xenons.
> 
> I think I am in the same boat as you, once I went Xenon with one of my cars, I will never go back to halogen because I seriously don't see well at night. I even missed a 350 lbs man crossing the road at night while I was turning left...I thought he was behind my A pilar, but he was 350 lbs...
> 
> Are you sure it wasn't in DRL mode vs low beam? what about high beam?


i know how to use a light switch, lol...

low beams and high beams are weak. if i had to give a comparison, it's like a super super white halogen headlight. the right side of the road looks great, but there is not enough distance ahead.

i agree, ever since i've had cars with hid, i will never go back to halogen. the amount of deer in my area, even in town on city streets, makes me want the best lighting possible.

if we happen to get another prestige in, i'm definitely going see if there is a difference. 



some people probably think i'm blowing this out of proportion, that's fine. some people may even like the leds better, that's fine too. my only advice is to drive it at night before you buy it... i'm glad i did.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Heretic:GTI said:


> i know how to use a light switch, lol...
> 
> low beams and high beams are weak. if i had to give a comparison, it's like a super super white halogen headlight. the right side of the road looks great, but there is not enough distance ahead.
> 
> ...


Could you take out an LED A6 and come back with a comparison? As I'm told that Prestige cars are sold order only (at least for my region), I doubt I'll be able to try one out. There's a pile of LED A6s on the lot, though.


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## BeBop! (Jun 18, 2009)

Heretic:GTI said:


> i know how to use a light switch, lol...
> 
> low beams and high beams are weak. if i had to give a comparison, it's like a super super white halogen headlight. the right side of the road looks great, but there is not enough distance ahead.
> 
> ...


Good info. :thumbup:


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## T1no (Sep 22, 2012)

pics!!!? the A3 and the R for good measure


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## trueunion (Apr 15, 2008)

I did the Trade you want to do and I am loving my A3 Premium Plus , the lights are great in my opinion. Now let the mods start\

tint
Rims 18 tsw
springs drop 25 mm


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

trueunion said:


> I did the Trade you want to do and I am loving my A3 Premium Plus , the lights are great in my opinion. Now let the mods start\
> 
> tint
> Rims 18 tsw
> springs drop 25 mm


You have the xenons, not LEDs I'm assuming. I pulled a premium plus in the shop today for a quick look. And they seem to be just like my golf r lights.


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

T1no said:


> pics!!!? the A3 and the R for good measure


Sorry, never even thought about it. A3 is on the pad now blocked in, no way to get the r anywhere near it. If they move it, or I break down and buy it I'll post a pic.


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> Could you take out an LED A6 and come back with a comparison? As I'm told that Prestige cars are sold order only (at least for my region), I doubt I'll be able to try one out. There's a pile of LED A6s on the lot, though.


Don't have any. The bosses have an a8 and s6 that appear to have LEDs. Pretty sure they're not letting me touch their cars, lol. From checking on cars . com the only a3 prestige within 300 miles is the one I ordered. 
Sales manager didn't seem happy when I told him why I wasn't sold on the car. But was curious about the dimness. I guess I'm the first person to drive one at night, so they didn't have any experience. I'm sure all the salesmen will be testing it out to tell me I'm a liar and give me **** about it. Maybe I'll give it another try... Or just spend a little more and go for the s3...?

Sucks looking at the car all day you waited months for just to be let down over something so stupid...


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## WLV (Apr 23, 2014)

Drove an A3 with xenons and I was very impressed with their brightness, light color, and spread in low beam; much better than the xenons on my 2005 A4.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Heretic:GTI said:


> Don't have any. The bosses have an a8 and s6 that appear to have LEDs. Pretty sure they're not letting me touch their cars, lol. From checking on cars . com the only a3 prestige within 300 miles is the one I ordered.
> Sales manager didn't seem happy when I told him why I wasn't sold on the car. But was curious about the dimness. I guess I'm the first person to drive one at night, so they didn't have any experience. I'm sure all the salesmen will be testing it out to tell me I'm a liar and give me **** about it. Maybe I'll give it another try... Or just spend a little more and go for the s3...?
> 
> Sucks looking at the car all day you waited months for just to be let down over something so stupid...


maybe the car has a defect? Maybe the techs can look at it or something....


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## The Car Czar (Apr 4, 2014)

LEDs are usually dimmer than Xenons. They look cool as daytime markers, but not sure about great advantages at night.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

After reading your complaint, I am so glad I didn't order the full LED headlamps option...so glad I can get S-line with Bi-xenon in Canada.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

VWNCC said:


> After reading your complaint, I am so glad I didn't order the full LED headlamps option...so glad I can get S-line with Bi-xenon in Canada.


Hah. It's one viewpoint from a drive of probably one of the only LED cars on the ground in North America. 

I've posted a thread soliciting additional thoughts on ASN. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Dan Halen said:


> Hah. It's one viewpoint from a drive of probably one of the only LED cars on the ground in North America.
> 
> I've posted a thread soliciting additional thoughts on ASN.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I don't see a reason for him to lie.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

VWNCC said:


> I don't see a reason for him to lie.


Opinion <> lie. I do suspect that we'd have seen complaints elsewhere by now if they were that sorry. There are enough of us keeping up with forums overseas that someone would intercept such complaints.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Dan Halen said:


> Opinion <> lie. I do suspect that we'd have seen complaints elsewhere by now if they were that sorry. There are enough of us keeping up with forums overseas that someone would intercept such complaints.


It depends on what car the driver is coming from though. Like, if one comes from a halogen-based car, he/she probably wouldn't be complaining about the full LED headlamps. It might take someone who comes from a car with good bi-xenon headlamps and is sensitive to these things to notice.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

VWNCC said:


> It depends on what car the driver is coming from though. Like, if one comes from a halogen-based car, he/she probably wouldn't be complaining about the full LED headlamps. It might take someone who comes from a car with good bi-xenon headlamps and is sensitive to these things to notice.


That's fine, and that's why I asked for opinions on a forum where more members are likely to be able to comment.


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> Opinion <> lie. I do suspect that we'd have seen complaints elsewhere by now if they were that sorry. There are enough of us keeping up with forums overseas that someone would intercept such complaints.


Not sure what, opinion <> lie means...

I didn't make this thread to have people not get LEDs. Don't buy anything based on one guys opinion, everybody is different. Try them for yourself before making your choice. Maybe I was expecting too much...? Maybe they are screwed up, though I'm told they're not. I figured if they're available only on the best model they'd be the best, to me they're not. I was just letting people know about "my" experience. I assumed it would be appreciated... One thing I'm not, is a liar. 
I'm also assuming most people won't have any issues with the lights. ****, people might love them. The color is great, and they look nice. I still may just get the car and deal with it. But I can guarantee my golf r xenons put more light on the road. How much afs helps, I don't know. But I definitely prefer the golf lights. 
One road on my way home has no street lights, it's about a 1/2 mile long straight stretch. I've driven this road hundreds of times. When driving the golf I can see the same mailboxes and signs reflected everyday for 2 years of owning the golf. Driving the a3 I had to be at a closer distance to notice the same things. Not a scientific test, but making that trip everyday for work for the last 4 years, it was easy to see the differences.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Opinion does not equal lie- ergo, he implied that I was accusing you of lying, and I was stating that your post was an opinion, so I couldn't be accusing you of lying. I think you've got it twisted.

It's not that serious. I posted another thread on another forum because there just aren't enough people in the US who can comment at this time. That said, because I obviously wasn't clear in my prior post, thanks for the feedback. Most of us will never be able to try these before ordering, so opinions such as this will be all we have.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Does Audi offer a '24 / 48 hr test drive' of their cars?

I think the 8V checks off all the main boxes until you get into daily driver use, where gripes around things you wouldn't normally catch on an hour test drive, or a regular one. Most Audi dealerships are in the city too, so you would definitely miss the LED issue.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Rudy_H said:


> Does Audi offer a '24 / 48 hr test drive' of their cars?
> 
> I think the 8V checks off all the main boxes until you get into daily driver use, where gripes around things you wouldn't normally catch on an hour test drive, or a regular one. Most Audi dealerships are in the city too, so you would definitely miss the LED issue.


I imagine it can be worked out on an individual basis for someone serious about buying. Still, my concern is that there just aren't going to be LED cars on the ground, unsold, in any quantity- at least not in the near term. Take my case, for example; it's unlikely that I'll be able to find an LED car to drive before Audi allows me to tender my S3 order in December. As I'm pretty set on a Prestige trim as I'd buy most of the P+ options that are included in Prestige, anyway, I'll end up with LED headlamps. 

_If_ the LED headlamp remains a Prestige-only option, and _if_ what I've been told about "sold order only" allocation of the Prestige cars is true (California excepted, according to caliatenza), it's just not looking good.

That's why I asked about A6 LEDs, really. If Heretic could get his hands on an A6 and provide feedback such as "the A6 has similar output and coverage as the A3," I could then drive an A6 and see what I think. Sure, it's not anything close to ideal, but it's something.

One last thought/ idea...

Surely the LED headlamps have aim adjustments? I know the dealer's answer was that they are "correct," but if they don't have another LED A3 to compare to, we can remain at least slightly skeptical. Idunno... just having a difficult time believing the "upgrade" lamp is inferior, even though they're probably as basic an LED technology as you can get for headlamps.

I've got it- someone needs to compare them to Corolla LEDs. :laugh:


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## lilmira (Feb 4, 2014)

How about the highbeam assist? It's my understanding that the LED highlights come with it, it should switch to highbeam automatically for more reach on an unlit road, you think? Don't know if I can test it out now with more daylights without taking a demo out overnight.


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> Opinion does not equal lie- ergo, he implied that I was accusing you of lying, and I was stating that your post was an opinion, so I couldn't be accusing you of lying. I think you've got it twisted.
> 
> It's not that serious. I posted another thread on another forum because there just aren't enough people in the US who can comment at this time. That said, because I obviously wasn't clear in my prior post, thanks for the feedback. Most of us will never be able to try these before ordering, so opinions such as this will be all we have.


No offense taken. I didn't take it that way, all good. 

I just don't want to come off like I'm saying they are garbage and everyone should stay away from them. Just wanted to share my thoughts. 

I checked out the other thread and saw the comments. Learned that they're not the matrix ones, I just assumed they're all the same. 

If I can take it again I'm going to mess with them myself, and see about adjustments. Maybe take some crappy iPhone pics if I can get any worth while.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Dan Halen said:


> Opinion does not equal lie- ergo, he implied that I was accusing you of lying, and I was stating that your post was an opinion, so I couldn't be accusing you of lying. I think you've got it twisted.


It might sound like that, but I wasn't implying that you were accusing the OP of lying. I just meant that I trust his opinion and that if one can have such opinion, there is no reason for me to question that some people will find the full LED headlamps subpar to the bi-xenon and that I now realize there is risk associated with this new tech (at least greater risk that Audi made of it).


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Heretic:GTI said:


> No offense taken. I didn't take it that way, all good.
> 
> I just don't want to come off like I'm saying they are garbage and everyone should stay away from them. Just wanted to share my thoughts.
> 
> ...





VWNCC said:


> It might sound like that, but I wasn't implying that you were accusing the OP of lying. I just meant that I trust his opinion and that if one can have such opinion, there is no reason for me to question that some people will find the full LED headlamps subpar to the bi-xenon and that I now realize there is risk associated with this new tech (at least greater risk that Audi made of it).


:thumbup: No worries, guys. The spoken word is so much simpler sometimes.

I'm fairly confident the A3 LEDs are the same across the world. I wasn't aware they had already put matrix LEDs on the A6 in Europe, but I guess they have.

Interesting tangent fact, which I remembered as a result of the matrix LED discussion... the new A8 headlamps for ROW have the sequential turn signals (seen here: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1086249_audi-shows-sequential-turn-signal-of-2015-a8), and I found a video of the A3 concept car a while back that showed the sequential signal at work on the rear of the A3. It wouldn't work with the front turn signal in the LED headlamp on the A3, but I suspect there's a way to make it work on the rear. 






/random pointless musings


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

sales manager is pretty cool. i guess a couple people have shown interest in the one i ordered, so i told him go ahead and sell it. he asked if i wanted something else or a different a3, so................. i'm going to order a different a3 prestige later today. now at least i'll be able to get the suspension and summer tires that i wanted the first time around. i'll just deal with the lights.... but i'm still hoping there was something wrong with the ones i tried... 

not sure if i should go with red again, or something else........


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

For comparison purposes, the US lense/light pattern would be different from EU, no?

Anyone have a link to difference in turn signals (aside from the wink which can be corrected via vcds)?


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Chimera said:


> For comparison purposes, the US lense/light pattern would be different from EU, no?
> 
> Anyone have a link to difference in turn signals (aside from the wink which can be corrected via vcds)?


How do you fix the "wink" I want my LED light to stay on while I  put on the blinker and not go off.


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## vtmsf (Jan 29, 2014)

*i dont think the A3 winks like earlier Audis*



livestrong191 said:


> How do you fix the "wink" I want my LED light to stay on while I put on the blinker and not go off.


I'm pretty sure it white running light changes from white to an amber turn signal.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

He has HIDs with the filament bulb turn signal; it's not shared with the DRL.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

remember the LED's produce a different kind of light than we are used to with Xenons bulbs. they replicate the light "color" that the sun puts off better than any other lights on the market.


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## GotGTI? (Oct 4, 2010)

Heretic- if all goes as planned and I end up with a P+ and you still dislike your LEDs I'd be willing to work a trade with you on the lights haha. Just sayin.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

livestrong191 said:


> How do you fix the "wink" I want my LED light to stay on while I put on the blinker and not go off.


I believe there's a setting accessible via vag-com to disable the drl from turning off when the turn signal is activated.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

vtmsf said:


> I'm pretty sure it white running light changes from white to an amber turn signal.


I believe this is correct. Personally I may disable the DRLs, the vanity lighting trend gets on my nerves.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Full LED (FF to about 42 seconds): Audi S3 2015 - Exterior and Interior Design: http://youtu.be/saDnv_UtF5A

Xenon (FF to about 18 seconds): 2013 Audi A3 8V Xenon - LED - Lights - Lichter: http://youtu.be/utFFFAELkwg


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

Thanks. What's the inner white light on the LED setup (where the amber turn would be if Xenon), fogs??


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## durt (Feb 4, 2014)

Chimera said:


> Thanks. What's the inner white light on the LED setup (where the amber turn would be if Xenon), fogs??


I believe it's the high beam


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Chimera said:


> I believe there's a setting accessible via vag-com to disable the drl from turning off when the turn signal is activated.


How do I access this or is this I have to ask the dealer to do


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## steve111b (Jun 2, 2011)

Since I have difficulty adapting to bright/dim light, I am intrigued with Heretic's experience. Good to know that the LEDs are different enough to provoke a strong reaction with at least one owner. 

Will everyone have difficulty? I doubt it. Will I? Probably, but I am comfortable that I can adapt to the different headlights. 

This is a great thread which shows how one driver's experience can give us all a better understanding of the new features on our cars. Thanks Heretic.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

steve111b said:


> Since I have difficulty adapting to bright/dim light, I am intrigued with Heretic's experience. Good to know that the LEDs are different enough to provoke a strong reaction with at least one owner.
> 
> Will everyone have difficulty? I doubt it. Will I? Probably, but I am comfortable that I can adapt to the different headlights.
> 
> This is a great thread which shows how one driver's experience can give us all a better understanding of the new features on our cars. Thanks Heretic.


+1


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Chimera said:


> I believe there's a setting accessible via vag-com to disable the drl from turning off when the turn signal is activated.


Is this illegal?

Does this invalidate warranty?

Does the dealer do this?


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Chimera said:


> I believe there's a setting accessible via vag-com to disable the drl from turning off when the turn signal is activated.





VWNCC said:


> Is this illegal?
> 
> Does this invalidate warranty?
> 
> Does the dealer do this?


The warranty isn't an all or nothing agreement. You altering the lights wouldn't affect the warranty on every other non related part. If for some reason changing this function causes a problem (I don't think it will but really don't know) then they won't (and shouldn't) cover it under warranty.

I don't see the dealer making this change because it may be technically illegal and because of the remote possibly it may cause a problem. You can ask but I am not a big fan of asking dealers to make non standard changes as it raises a flag that you are making changes.

It does seem like it would be a little more difficult to see the blinker but I don't know if you care.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

dmorrow said:


> The warranty isn't an all or nothing agreement. You altering the lights wouldn't affect the warranty on every other non related part. If for some reason changing this function causes a problem (I don't think it will but really don't know) then they won't (and shouldn't) cover it under warranty.
> 
> I don't see the dealer making this change because it may be technically illegal and because of the remote possibly it may cause a problem. You can ask but I am not a big fan of asking dealers to make non standard changes as it raises a flag that you are making changes.
> 
> It does seem like it would be a little more difficult to see the blinker but I don't know if you care.


Thanks for the response. I doubt I would change anything, but was just asking. I mean, I sit in the driver's seat, I don't see the blinker or LED light anyways....


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

ProjectA3 said:


> remember the LED's produce a different kind of light than we are used to with Xenons bulbs. they replicate the light "color" that the sun puts off better than any other lights on the market.


Unfortunately the case has not been closed on whether higher color temperature / "closer to daylight" is actually better. The same arguments came up with regards to HID versus halogen in the 90s, and now with LEDs its been taken a step even further.

An excerpt from:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/disadvantages/disadvantages.html



> Now, how do we reconcile this with the ad copy that seems universally to talk about how HID headlamps' light is closer to daylight? Well, from a color temperature standpoint, that's generally true. However, that's not the whole story. Color temperature is only one factor that goes into describing the quality of light from such a thing as a headlamp. But here's the tricky part: There's no evidence that "closer to daylight" is the right stuff to drive with at night. Sure, an easy case can be made by just assuming that because daylight is what we have during the day, daylight is what we ought to have at night, too. But it isn't that simple at all. The eye has a very different set of jobs to do, using a different box of tools, at night compared to the job and tools during the day. The extent to which this influences your safety behind HID headlamps is not currently known. The full extent of the current knowledge on the topic as relates to current HID headlamps is "You can probably see colors well enough to be safe". But that's it! (Note that it's from the same researchers who say that you can see well enough to be safe when driving e.g. a '93-'97 Camaro with those miniature oblong sealed beams...) So all the hype about "closer to daylight" is really meaningless in the real world, and may in fact be misleading; there is research showing improved distance perception with headlight of *lower* color temperature, for any given intensity. Certainly any kind of shift towards the blue (as with HID headlamps) is a step in the wrong direction in inclement weather (fog, rain, snow, etc.).


I suspect these are likely the issues at hand in our other thread with the driver who complained that his LED A3 headlight performance was wanting.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> Unfortunately the case has not been closed on whether higher color temperature / "closer to daylight" is actually better. The same arguments came up with regards to HID versus halogen in the 90s, and now with LEDs its been taken a step even further.
> 
> An excerpt from:
> http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/disadvantages/disadvantages.html
> ...


Yeah, I think the means of delivery is far superior to the type of source. Ergo, I'd be happier with a halogen projector than a xenon reflector. That's part of my concern with the LEDs- the idea that they've now gone back to a reflector design rather than using a projector design.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

also keep in mind these cars are still brand new. Walking into a dealer and asking them to disable or do any Vag-com, vcds, or dealer coding changing will most likely return blank stares.

they're just too new so far.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Important thing to know about LED's is that they are on or off. they don't have a brightness setting. You can cycle them off and on very quickly. so quickly that the human brain can't interpret the light as anything but constant. It just reads as brighter or darker. If you need proof of this, open up the trunk of an LED taillighted audi in the snow and watch the snowflakes skip trace over them. It's very freaky. 

It's entirely likely that you can turn-up the cycle time on the LED strobe cycle to make them brigther. 

This is exactly what we do for those LED color message signs and billboards over the road. We turn the cycle time up in the daytime to control the washout from the sun and turn them down at night so they don't blind the drivers. Most of them are actually segmented bricks that turn on a few at a time, maybe 5 out of 50. Cuts the power consumption way down and you can't see it anyway. Funny thing is that your phone can. Take a quick video of one and you'll see what I mean when you watch it.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> Important thing to know about LED's is that they are on or off. they don't have a brightness setting. You can cycle them off and on very quickly. so quickly that the human brain can't interpret the light as anything but constant. It just reads as brighter or darker. If you need proof of this, open up the trunk of an LED taillighted audi in the snow and watch the snowflakes skip trace over them. It's very freaky.
> 
> It's entirely likely that you can turn-up the cycle time on the LED strobe cycle to make them brigther.
> 
> This is exactly what we do for those LED color message signs and billboards over the road. We turn the cycle time up in the daytime to control the washout from the sun and turn them down at night so they don't blind the drivers. Most of them are actually segmented bricks that turn on a few at a time, maybe 5 out of 50. Cuts the power consumption way down and you can't see it anyway. *Funny thing is that your phone can. Take a quick video of one and you'll see what I mean when you watch it.*


Yup. Just like you can see the LED tail lamps giving off a strobe effect in videos of the A3.

I'm a lighting nut, so I want the LED headlamps "just because."


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

My last car was a 09 A4 that had the bi-xenon headlights that were very good. My current A6 has the LED, to me they are noticeably brighter. In my opinion the steps are nearly equal old incandescent<halogen<bi-xenon<LED.
I ran the Blue Ridge Parkway this past week in the middle of the night and was able to pick out small animals on the side of the road hundreds of yards ahead of me.

the LED lights might be different strengths between the A3 and A6....but I am ecstatic with mine.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

FractureCritical said:


> It's entirely likely that you can turn-up the cycle time on the LED strobe cycle to make them brigther.


Not likely due to heat generation. LEDs start generating pretty extreme amouts of heat at the wattages required for headlamps. The reason they stay somewhat under control is the complex system of heatsinks (or even fans as in the A8) and the fact they strobe at those high frequencies.

You probably could decrease the strobe length at the expense of life and actually brightness (output also decreases with temperature).


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