# Discussion of problems arising from discharged batteries (battery management controller replacement)



## phaeton Also (Feb 12, 2005)

*Report on first 3000 mile trip*

Started the trip with 2100 miles and now have 5100 miles. The W8 was a pleasure to drive. The car is comfertable and the engine ran perfect. The good things first Fuel economy was better than expected. We drove between 80 and 90 mph on very empty roads in Califorina and Arizona and averaged 22.1 mpg. Our highest milage was 23 mpg. Took the car to 100+ mph a few times and felt like 50mph. The car is very quiet and tracks down the road very well. I think the weight of the car helps. 
The bad:







The car on the electronics side is a mess. I will keep it short. All settings in the car seemed to work at random. Infotainment system control knob didn't work for awhile, The sun roof wouldn't close then would close on its own, the car forgot my key and wouldnt unlock the car, it reset itself when I finally got in the car and put it in the ignition. It is programed to do that. The radio changed from playing a radio station to playing a CD after we stopped to get fuel and started again. Seat settings and steering wheel would work when they wanted. NAV system dropped out we had to reset the system by stopping the car turning it off and restarting. The dash vents remained open with the system completly turned off. There is more but no reason to carry on.
I have read all the manuals that came with the car and have made all settings with the help of the dealer and this forum. I know I am doing it right. I have owned many other cars with automatic systems and have never had to make any changes once settings were made. They always worked.
My wife and I want this beautiful car to work. We like the looks and luxury. By the way I tried all the systems today in my garage and they all worked perfectly. I will tell you a long trip where it requires you to make changes everyday to settings or read the manual to find out how to over ride a system is no fun. I have an appointment with the dealer but if everything works like it does now how can it be fixed. Sorry for the rant but now I feel better. I don't want to be forced out of this car we like it.


_Modified by phaeton Also at 10:10 AM 3-29-2005_


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (phaeton Also)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton Also* »_Started the trip with 2100 miles and now have 5100 miles. The W8 was a pleasure to drive. The car is comfertable and the engine ran perfect. The good things first Fuel economy was better than expected. We drove between 80 and 90 mph on very empty roads in Califorina and Arizona and averaged 22.1 mpg. Our highest milage was 23 mpg. Took the car to 100+ mph a few times and felt like 50mph. The car is very quiet and tracks down the road very well. I think the weight of the car helps. 
The bad:







The car on the electronics side is a mess. I will keep it short. All settings in the car seemed to work at random. Infotainment system control knob didn't work for awhile, The sun roof wouldn't close then would close on its own, the car forgot my key and wouldnt unlock the car, it reset itself when I finally got in the car and put it in the ignition. It is programed to do that. The radio changed from playing a radio station to playing a CD after we stopped to get fuel and started again. Seat settings and steering wheel would work when they wanted. NAV system dropped out we had to reset the system by stopping the car turning it off and restarting. The dash vents remained open withe the system completly turned off. 
I have read all the manuals that came with the car and have made all settings with the help of the dealer and this forum. I know I am doing it right. I have owned many other cars with automatic systems and have never had to make any changes once settings were made. They always worked.
My wife and I want this beautiful car to work. We like the looks and luxury. By the way I tried all the systems today in my garage and they all worked perfectly. I will tell you a long trip where it requires you to make changes everyday to settings or read the manual to fid out how to over ride a system is no fun. I have an appointment with the dealer but if everything works like it does now how can it be fixed. Sorry for the rant but now I feel better. I don't want to be forced out of this car we like it.

You might ask the dealer to check the wiring harness under the steering column. Some Phaetons had a short wiring harness and thus when you start and stop the car and pull the key out of the steering column, the column moves and can pinch wires and rub the coating off the wire thus creating all kinds of faults.
Electrical shielding is critical in the Phaeton as it is in any of the new cars with all the electronics installed.
Just a little FYI.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (rmg2)*

Sounds like some of the same stuff I experienced. The sun roof module on the roof was replaced and I wrnt through 4 infotainment units. But the last 4 or 5 months have been smooth sailing. The first 7 was the initial Phaeton hell. But it gets better. As a comparison, my Audi A6 4.2 had electrical demons and they could never figure them out. Germans are not high on the reliability lists right now from consumer reports or JD Power. This includes all of them, BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi.


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## phaeton Also (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (rmg2)*

This is an update on the issues I had with the power options not working all the time. The dealer hooked up his computer and drove the car around with an offical from the factory VW rep and determined there was an imbalance of charging voltage to the batteries. They are going to replace the charging balance module and we think it will fix the issue. It makes sense because on another post "two bad batteries" by jmdpjd1 similar thigs happened.. I am excited to get the car back and start enjoying it again. by the way Phaeton is included in this months review in of luxury cars in Road and Track magazine and it beats out the S500. 


_Modified by phaeton Also at 4:37 PM 4-4-2005_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (phaeton Also)*

I think you're on the road to success on that issue. It does sound reasonable that not only yours but other cars we've heard similar complaints on may be a voltage irregularity. I wish you the best.
Yes, I saw that R&T issue just this weekend and yet again the Phaeton outdid Benz. I think it should have even beat out a few others, don't you???


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (dzier)*

David,
4 infotainment units! Now I understand why some cars were bought back! Was your problem finally cured by changing out the battery management module also?


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## phaeton Also (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (Paldi)*

I don't have the car back yet. I will post when I get it back.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (phaeton Also)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton Also* »_The bad:







The car on the electronics side is a mess. I will keep it short. All settings in the car seemed to work at random. Infotainment system control knob didn't work for awhile, The sun roof wouldn't close then would close on its own, the car forgot my key and wouldn't unlock the car, it reset itself when I finally got in the car and put it in the ignition. It is programmed to do that. The radio changed from playing a radio station to playing a CD after we stopped to get fuel and started again. Seat settings and steering wheel would work when they wanted. NAV system dropped out we had to reset the system by stopping the car turning it off and restarting. The dash vents remained open with the system completely turned off...

Hi Guys:
I have developed a new interest in life, something that is far more fun that flying planes (my day job), or fooling around with the Phaeton I own (my previous hobby). My new interest is Volkswagen diagnostics, and the more time I spend diagnosing problems with other people's high end VW's (Phaetons and Touaregs), the more I think - quite seriously - that I might just get out of the aviation business and get into the VW troubleshooting business. I am not kidding you.
As some of you may recall, I encountered quite a few "little mystery problems" with my own W12 Phaeton during the first 8 weeks I owned it. But, since those first two months, I have not had a single problem with my Phaeton (apart from the hydraulic trunk lid lifter failing – and that was a really simple fix, just replace a part). What is most interesting is that neither my Phaeton technician or myself had to touch anything to resolve all of the "little mystery problems" that I encountered in the first two weeks of ownership. All we had to do was look carefully, analyze, and learn - and the problems then all went away, never to return.
I'm not talking through my hat - let me try and explain what I mean: Modern high-end vehicles - Phaeton, Touaregs, and I bet the new Jetta V series as well - rely on electronic control modules to an extent that is unprecedented in automotive history. A Phaeton has over 30 electronic control modules in it, and every single one of those modules has more computing power, more processor horsepower, and more source code (firmware) in it than the finest laptop computer that money could buy at the beginning of the 1990s. Over the same 15 year period, the build quality of the mechanical components of the vehicle - everything from door hinges to electric powered seats to the engine itself - has increased dramatically. It's rare to hear of anyone finding a mechanical problem in a car anymore - in fact, in all the time I have been on this forum, I can't recall a single Phaeton owner saying "Gee, there was a squeak from the bottom of my car, and I took it into the garage, and they found the muffler was rubbing on something".
What this means is that the whole automotive repair process has changed dramatically. If a vehicle is giving the owner problems, there is a 95% probability that the problems will have no cause that can be detected and corrected in the traditional manner, buy the technician using sight, sound, smell, touch, or hearing. The problems will be electronic in origin, and the only way to correct an electronic problem is with diagnosis and analysis.
VW has attempted to respond to this challenge by developing guided fault finding (GFF) software for the service technician to use. To a great extent, they have succeeded, and diagnosis and rectification of problems by using GFF is now the most common way of identifying and correcting problems in VW products. When the GFF software is well written - and the particular problem that exists with the vehicle is documented in the GFF library - the technicians can fix our vehicles quickly and competently. But - if the GFF software lacks a certain subroutine to deliver an answer for a specific complaint, or, if the GFF software has a tiny error or omission in it - holy crow, the technician now hits a "brick wall", and the problem cannot be resolved. The poor technician has become so conditioned to using GFF to solve problems that he or she either lacks the skills to use their own cognitive ability to diagnose, analyze, and identify the problem (not to even mention rectify the problem), or, worse still, the manufacturer has told the technician "Hey, use GFF to fix this, we're not going to pay you to go and troubleshoot the problem on your own the way you think is best". The result of this is owner dissatisfaction and persistent problems such as Rodger documented in his quote, above.
Getting back to my own Phaeton: After observing my car fairly carefully after noting all the problems that arose during the first few months of ownership, I came to the following conclusions:
1) The Phaeton generates a great number of spurious fault codes if the voltage on the main DC bus (terminal 30 bus) is allowed to fall below 12 volts. Some of these problems are announced to the owner via the screen in the instrument panel, e.g. "Suspension Fault - Workshop", "Brake Fault - Workshop", or, more subtly, "Please Start Engine". For the benefit of those of you who don't speak Volkswagen, "Please Start Engine" means, in plain language: Your battery voltage has fallen to the first critical threshold, so start the darn engine now to charge the battery back up, otherwise, you will be bombarded by spurious fault messages".
2) Some of the fault conditions that arise as a result of a low voltage condition are not announced to the owner. they can only be detected if the fault memory of the car is polled with a diagnostic scan tool. But, the presence of these fault codes can impair function of systems on the vehicle. For example, a sunroof or motorized trunk lid may not close because it believes a pinch protection condition exists. A key fob remote will not work because it has been pressed too many times without a car recognizing and responding to it. In other words, problems that are exactly like Rodger has mentioned.
As a result of my own curiosity about my car - and my persistent tinkering, polling of fault codes, and analysis of what actions on my part (e.g. running down the battery) caused what problems with my Phaeton (e.g. half a dozen spurious faults, plus the seats not moving to the right position when I opened the door, plus the nav system not working right, etc.), I came to the following conclusion: It would be a darn good idea to stop running the battery down. Since I reached that conclusion, I have not encountered a single problem of any kind with my Phaeton.
Now, please don't conclude from this that I am trying to suggest that Rodger's problems are his fault, from running the battery down, or that all he has to do is just avoid running the battery down and his car will be perfect. That's not what I am trying to say. My point is that I *don't* have GFF available to me - it is only available to VW technicians at VW dealerships - so, I was forced to use old-fashioned diagnostic methods, such as observation of cause and effect, observation of repeated patterns, and synthesis of information observed (cluster display says "Suspension Fault - Workshop", but all I have done is listen to CD's in the garage with the engine off for the last 2 hours - hmmm, maybe nothing is wrong with the suspension system) to come up with a differential diagnosis (maybe running the battery down causes spurious fault codes) and then develop a troubleshooting plan using my own cognitive ability (well, I'll try being very careful to not run the battery down for the next two weeks, and I'll see if that has any impact on reliability of my Phaeton).
To successfully carry out such a process, the technician (or owner) needs to have a basic understanding of the “Principles of Troubleshooting”. This is not vehicle specific – heck, I taught Principles of Troubleshooting to aircraft maintenance engineers for years, and one of the comments I often heard at the end of the course was “You know, I can use these same skills at home if my dishwasher doesn't work.” That's absolutely correct – in fact, you could probably use the same skills on your teenager if you resisted the urge to get in there and fix the behaviour before you fully identified the cause of the problem.
Sadly, most owners cannot or will not go through the basic troubleshooting process, not only because they don't own a diagnostic scan tool, but also because they have no interest whatsoever in this kind of troubleshooting - they bought their car to be reliable transportation, and that's all they want from it - reliable transportation. Therefore, they rely on their VW technician to do the diagnosis, analysis, identification and rectification of problems for them, and if the technician is constrained to using GFF only, then it is unlikely that the problem will be quickly resolved during the first service visit. It is very interesting to note that when my own Phaeton technician - a guy who is an absolute master of his craft, who I highly respect - used the GFF tool to diagnose my complaint about the battery in my W12 running down, GFF told him to replace the generator! He and I looked at each other, and we shook our heads. We later decided that perhaps the cause of problem was the owner of the car (the darn owner was leaving the ignition on too long without starting the engine), and we then made our own troubleshooting plan, the old fashioned way - step 1, modify owner behaviour for a few weeks, and see if the problem goes away. As you all know - the problem went away.
------------------------------------------
OK - what can all this philosophising do to solve Rodger's problems? I can only offer a few thoughts, based on my own experience:
1) When problems appear that do not seem to make sense - e.g. a sunroof not opening and closing properly - if no obvious cause can be found, such as a defective controller, try simply resetting the controller (adaptation channel 00 - enter and save 0 again as a new value) and see how things work out after that. This is the Phaeton or Touareg equivalent of re-booting your computer to solve some strange problem that you don't want to spend the rest of your life getting to the bottom of.
2) It is sometimes necessary to reset more than one controller. For example, problems in the central comfort system (controller address 46) can sometimes arise as a result of problems present in the central electrical system (controller address 09).
3) Effect does not always suggest cause. A message that appears in the instrument cluster display (address 17) describing a problem reported by the level control system (address 34) or the ABS braking system (address 03) can be caused by a problem with the vehicle battery, which is monitored by address 71 and managed by address 09. In other words, analysis and diagnosis of complex or seemingly inexplicable problems with vehicle has to done holistically, not component by component.
4) The owner of a complex vehicle must accept that when apparently inexplicable problems arise, he or she is going to have to become involved in the troubleshooting process, if only as an educated observer who reports back to the VW technician. The prevailing VW service practice of the customer speaking only to a service advisor, and the service advisor then relaying a terse, abbreviated written complaint (“Customer complains sunroof won’t close properly) to the technician just doesn't work with highly complex vehicles. If you use a computer at your workplace, and enjoy good IT support, compare the way you interact with the IT tech at your workplace with the way you interact with the VW tech at your dealership. See any differences in how you communicate? I bet you do!
5) Perhaps VW needs to come up with a little booklet to give to the vehicle owners that outlines what they can to do assist with the process of rapidly and accurately identifying problems. By example, I just had a new water heater installed in my home, and it came with a booklet entitled “Troubleshooting Problems” The first section told the owner what he or she could do if the water coming out of the bathroom tap was cold: Feel the water heater, see if the tank was warm, check to see if the thermostat on the bottom was set at an appropriate temperature, check to see if the pilot light was lit, check to see if a teenager just finished taking a shower and the dishwasher and washing machine were both running at the same time. Later in that booklet, it listed observations that the owner could make before calling the plumber: Was the lack of hot water constant, or intermittent? Did it correlate with the outside air temperature, meaning, was it only a problem on the coldest day of the winter? Did the water heater make any funny noises? Have you been paying your natural gas bill every month?
Jeepers, if the manufacturer of a $400 hot water heater can provide that kind of owner education, isn't it time the manufacturer of a $75,000 car thought about doing the same thing?
Michael


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## phaeton Also (Feb 12, 2005)

michael thank you for your fine work. By the way it is ok if to indicate that we may not know how to work our cars. Sometimes a wake up call is good. I have followed many of the procedures you have mentioned to trouble shoot my problems. I worked on electronics in the Navy and am very fimilar with the trouble shooting process. Our VW technician always talks with us directly and we dicuss what exactly happened and we document it. We are lucky he is a thinker and knows the car very well. In our case I think we will get the issues solved. An understanding of logical opperation is very important. kBy the way thank you for your help and reply.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (Paldi)*

Nope. It was a software bug. Unit would get a mind of its own and do things even when you selected otherwise. Also would freeze and you would lose audio and climate control operations. The loaner Phaeton I would get would do the same things. It is all working now, and has been for about 4-5 months.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (PanEuropean)*

I think this situation is unique to German car makers. My Audis could be nightmares too. I don;t really hear too many Lexus owners complaining about this stuff.


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## martingie (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Report on first 3000 mile trip (dzier)*

I just heard a report on german TV about the Mercedes stock ownwer meeting where everybody was concerned about all the recalls that could damage mercedes reputation. The explanation of the moderaters for recent german car trouble was , that the germans are allways the first to put new elctronic systems in their cars , and market pressure, to produce new models in shorter time don't let them test enough. Other car makers (japanese?), would go a conservertive way and let others have there troubles first before using new electronic systems.........????


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton Also)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton Also* »_ The dealer hooked up his computer and drove the car around with an official from the factory VW rep and determined there was an imbalance of charging voltage to the batteries. They are going to replace the charging balance module and we think it will fix the issue.

That is a very interesting observation. I didn't notice that you had written that until just now. When the technician at my VW dealership was diagnosing the battery discharge problems with my W12, he did *exactly* the same diagnostic test as what you described. The only difference between you, your car, and your technician and me, my car, and my technician was that in my case, the two of us had already come to the conclusion that the flaky electronic systems behaviour that I occasionally encountered was not caused by any faults in the individual systems exhibiting the flaky behaviour (e.g. sunroof, seat memory, key unlocking, nav). We had already come to the conclusion - before my Phaeton even went into the shop - that my problems were caused by the vehicle power supply battery running down.
For this reason, when I brought the car in to the dealer, the Phaeton tech went directly to diagnosis and analysis of the battery regulation system (address 71) and the battery charging system, which is indirectly supervised by the controller at address 09. The VW GFF system (VAS 5052) gave the recommendation that the generator be replaced - a recommendation that both of us dismissed as being a totally inappropriate intervention, something that would cost VW a fortune in parts and labour, and probably cause a whole whack of new, unrelated problems - because replacing a generator on a W12 is the Phaeton equivalent of doing a heart transplant. At this point, we came to the previously described conclusion that maybe I was causing the problem by leaving the ignition on, and not running the engine. We also noted a very small but significant design oversight in the Phaeton electrical system: Unlike a Golf, Jetta, or Touareg, the Phaeton DRL's don't switch off when the parking brake is applied - and this contributes to rapid battery drain. See this post for more information about that: Two bad batteries?
Almost two weeks have passed since I began testing our hypothesis that "inadvertent battery discharge is the root cause of all the other problems", and it appears that hypothesis is correct - my Phaeton has performed flawlessly since then, and has not recorded a single fault code in any controller. Now, we need to move on to the next step in the process, which is determining why the very large, very high capacity vehicle power supply battery in my Phaeton is discharging so quickly when the ignition is on but the engine is not running. As you can see, both you and I are at exactly the same point in the diagnosis of exactly the same problem, and this is where things are going to become very interesting.
Your technician has decided to replace the 'charging balance module' (I am guessing that you are referring to the J367 Battery Control Monitoring Module at address 71, PN 3D0 915 181 B). Mark (the tech at my dealer) and I have our suspicions about this module also, because we have observed differences in current flows and voltages between the two batteries – it seems that the vehicle power supply battery is not being recharged as effectively as the starter battery. However, I doubt that we are going to choose to replace this controller as the next step in our troubleshooting, unless we determine that there has been an incremental upgrade in either the module itself (e.g. suffix letter changing from B to C), or an upgrade to the software inside the module (e.g. the software version in my module – which was manufactured in the summer of 2003 – is 2600, maybe new J367's being manufactured today have a software version of 2700 or 2800). We'll probably just swap my vehicle power supply battery with the one in the dealership demonstrator, to rule out the possiblity that there might be a problem with the battery itself. That is a quick, easy, and cheap troubleshooting check to perform.
If the battery swap doesn't solve the problem, and we find out that a more advanced version of the J367 is available, then we will probably order one. If we find out that the J367 has not changed suffix letter or software revision in the last 20 months, then instead of ordering a new one, we are just going to do a temporary swap of modules between my Phaeton and the dealership's Phaeton demonstrator, and see if that results in any change. The reason for this strategy is that we don't think there is a high probability of the module in my Phaeton being 'defective' in the sense that it is *broken *– we think there is a high probability that the *software *in the module is defective. If we order a new module and it has the same software revision level, we're just wasting Mark's time and VW's money – it would make more sense to do a module swap with a 'known good' Phaeton first, and see if that makes any difference. That would rule out a 'broken' module, and, if no difference was found in the performance of my car after using a swapped module at the same software revision status, it would support our hypothesis that the software in this module is not yet perfect. 
You and your technician could help us with our efforts: When your new module arrives, please let us know the part number (especially the letter suffix), and let us know what the software revision level in the new module is. The software revision level is usually printed on the side of the part number sticker – it will always be a 4 digit number – but it can also be obtained by polling the module with the VAS 5052 scan tool once it is installed.
It will be interesting to see how all this works out. 
Michael


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

Michael:
According to ETKA 3D0 915 181 B was dropped 01/05/2004 and replaced with 3D0 915 181 C.








-Andrew


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (joako)*

Hi Andrew:
Welcome to the Phaeton forum, it is an honour to have you participate.
That is great news about the battery module. Now that I know that, I think I will wait until Rodger gets his new module and has about a month or so of experience with it, and see if that clears up his problem. Until then, we have found a fully satisfactory "temporary workaround" - as long as I am careful to not leave the ignition power on for more than 10 minutes without starting the engine, no problems arise. That has been my experience for the last two weeks, anyway.
If Rodger's experience proves that the new "C" version module fixes the root cause of the problem, great, we can carve another notch in our Phaeton forum troubleshooting record. For me, that is the most fun aspect of having this car - figuring out how it works!
Michael


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## phaeton Also (Feb 12, 2005)

*Report on repairs to rodger's car*








I have my Phaeton back from the dealer. They had it for a total of 12 days. Heres what they did. Electrical concerns with the key fob. Tech found voltage drop in the system Isolation relay has failed removed installed battery to replace isolaton relay restored power VW#lb2005040403 Part # 3d0-919-507 relay
Various electrical concerns Voltage from accessory battery is getting too low Battery control unit failing replace battery control unit.Part# 3D0-915-181-C.
Sunroof fault in pinch mode Replaced sunroof motor Part# 3d0-959-591-D 
Wind deflector not working replace deflector motor. Part#3D0-959-591-A. 
Everything is now back together and an excellent job done car clean and all. It all works fine so far. One week no problems. The car did have to relearn some functions but it is perfect for now. I will keep this forum informed of any changes as I get more miles on the car. We are back in the drivers seat and very happy again. I live in Oregon and won't be able to attend the big gathering so if anyone gets information there please post. Andrew and Michael this is all I have for now. Rodger.


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: Report on repairs to rodger's car (phaeton Also)*

good news! congrats on getting you car back and a job well done!
Ed.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Report on repairs to rodger's car (phaeton Also)*

Great news, thanks ever so much for posting the follow-up.
I'll give you a holler in a month or so and see how things are going. If that battery regulator replacement has solved your problems, then maybe I'll get one too for my battery problem (discussed here). 
I saw a note in a German language forum the other day about another owner also having battery regulator problems - he mentioned the software update (which you got included with your new "C" suffix controller) - so I think you might have done the right thing.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Report on repairs to rodger's car (phaeton Also)*

Hi Rodger:
It's now been 5 weeks since the repair - how is the car doing? Is it still trouble-free?
Michael


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## phaeton Also (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Report on repairs to rodger's car (PanEuropean)*

Our car is working very good. We have not had any further trouble with any of the electronics. All systems work as they are designed. We now have 7500 mile on our car and are truly enjoying it. Here is further information about our car so we know what we are dealing with. Our car is a base car so we don't have a high number of options. Our last trip to SanFrancisco was a joy. no real problems. On that trip the car did forget my special settings. I reset them and am still ok. I am still learning about the car and how to get the maximam out of its features. I tend to adjust settings in the car for where and how i am driving. I have fun trying different things. I will keep all posted if we experience any problems. By the way we purchased our car (not a lease) so we just purchased an extended warranty up to 100,000 miles or 7 years Full coverage like the existing VW warranty. How much you say $2,100.







We hope we don't need it.


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## iluvmcr (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Report on repairs to rodger's car (phaeton Also)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton Also* »_Our car is working very good. We have not had any further trouble with any of the electronics. All systems work as they are designed. We now have 7500 mile on our car and are truly enjoying it. Here is further information about our car so we know what we are dealing with. Our car is a base car so we don't have a high number of options. Our last trip to SanFrancisco was a joy. no real problems. On that trip the car did forget my special settings. I reset them and am still ok. I am still learning about the car and how to get the maximam out of its features. I tend to adjust settings in the car for where and how i am driving. I have fun trying different things. I will keep all posted if we experience any problems. By the way we purchased our car (not a lease) so we just purchased an extended warranty up to 100,000 miles or 7 years Full coverage like the existing VW warranty. How much you say $2,100.







We hope we don't need it.

I'm glad to hear everything is working well. I purchased my Phaeton with the extended warrantee as well. I'm coming up on 30,000 miles (currently at 27,000 actually, in only 9 months) probably in the next couple of months. Maybe I should report on the first 30,000 mile road trip!


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## aaronfinch2001 (Oct 12, 2011)

*Problem with accessory battery draining: Is recently added Sirius XM Receiver to blame?*

I have a 2005 VW Phaeton with ~ 133K miles on it. It is in general still very mechanically sound, but some of the issues are becoming more than annoying. Specifically: 

In August, I replaced the rear battery (electronics/accessories battery).

In October, I purchased a Sirius Starmate receiver off Ebay that came with a lifetime Sirius subscription because the Phaeton radio (antenna modulator) had died, and so had the CD player. The antenna modulator is located near the wear windshield under the headliner, and the labor alone to replace it would be $$$. I've also already replaced the entire head unit (infotainment system) once, AND the CD player once as well, so I was looking for new audio options that are independent of the VW parts but still work. 

I figured a Sirius satellite receiver with no monthly subscription would be a good solution. 

At first I powered the receiver using the 12v power cord, which worked fine, but I had to unplug it every time I parked the car, so I had my mechanic wire it into the fusebox so it would be powered on only when the car is on. About a week after doing this, I noticed when I got in the car in the morning it was in a sleep mode, i.e. all accessories dead. In other words, something is draining the battery even after shutting the car off, but thankfully the Phaeton is smart enough to go into a sleep mode that preserves the battery, and I can still start the car in the morning ( I realize the starter battery is separate from the electronics/accessories battery).

My mechanic diagnosed the problem as the Head Unit causing an ongoing drain - but I don't want to pay $550+ labor for ANOTHER head unit which would be over 10 years old, and which may not receive FM/AM radio because of the antenna modulator. He checked the battery control module and said it is working properly.

For now, the Sirius receiver works fine, and plays through the stereo via FM modulation on 88.1 FM. I can start my car every day after 'waking it up' but it throws off a bunch of false-error codes, the clock has to re-set every day, and it's in general just annoying.

I am going to try hooking a battery maintainer / tender to the electronics battery in the trunk at night to see if that keeps it from going into slumber / shutoff mode, but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts or other suggestions.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Aaron,

Tracing 'car kept awake' problems is rather difficult.

As you say, either the Sirius is drawing enough power to drain the battery overnight (unlikely) or its presence is causing the car to keep one or more circuits such as the radio and speaker amplifier live overnight.

It is just about feasible that something unrelated failed at exactly the same time that you installed the Sirius, but it makes sense to start from a known position before leaping into the dark.

Presumably the technician connected the Sirius to a fuse on the panel. Do you think it makes sense as a first step to find out which fuse he used, then pull the fuse when you park and confirm that the car sleeps properly in that state?

Perhaps others have more robust suggestions.

Chris


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