# ESCtuning's PBR Ceramic Vs. Mintex Red box



## Mk4Idol (Sep 19, 2002)

Hi all, I've been trying to decide between the PBR Ceramic pads and Mintex Red Box. They are both the same price. My car is a daily driver, which is a better set of pads and would last longer?
Thanks. 
Pics for hits!


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## Ceilidh (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: ESCtuning's PBR Ceramic Vs. Mintex Red box (Mk4Idol)*

Hello Mk4Idol,
You're going to get a big number of people telling you PBR is fantastic and Mintex is the pits, but I thought you might want some direct comparison info:
I had Mintex Redbox on my GTI 1.8T for most of 2004, and switched over to PBR Ultimates (Ceramic) at Thanksgiving. This spring I will switch back to the Redbox (fortunately I held onto them), but for most people the PBR is probably the better bet. Here's a summary of my experience with both pads:
Initial Bite and Friction Coefficient:
PBR by a longshot. The Redbox requires quite a bit more pedal pressure before they start to bite, and the coefficient of friction is in general much lower. With the PBR in place, the brakes feel much more powerful & effortless, and you can get a lot of retardation with just a flex of your foot. In contrast, the Mintex has less initial bite and less overall coefficient than even the stock pads, and braking requires more pedal force.
Parking Brake:
Closely related to the above is that your handbrake will be much more effective with the PBR. With the Mintex, you need a good hard pull on the handle to hold the car on a hill.
Fade:
Neither pad is extreme in fade-resistance, and the people on this forum who call them a "stock replacement pad" have a point. That being said, however, the PBR can have a bit on an odd feel even in a moderate stop from fast highway speeds (as in coming in hard to a tollbooth); it's not overt fade, but the brake modulation is not quite linear; you have to adjust a little to keep a consistent level of braking. The Mintex might have a bit more of what feels like fade in the same situation, but it's dead linear and easy to predict & compensate for.
Dust:
The OEM pads do not appear to be the same for different Golf/Jetta IV brakes. With my car, both the Mintex and PBR dust less than my stock front pads did, but more than did the original stock rear pads (the dusting is relatively even front & back, whereas the OEM pads were much dirtier in the front).
Both PBR and Mintex are much easier to clean off the rims than was the OEM dust. On my car (apparently some people have had different experiences), the PBR dust is a little lighter in colour, a little lighter in quantity, but just ever so slightly more reluctant to wash off the rims. In contrast, the Mintex dust was blacker, a little more plentiful under hard braking, but slightly easier to wipe & rinse away. Both pads make maintenance much easier than OEM.
Longevity:
Can't say: I didn't/ haven't had either pad on long enough to show significant wear on either pad or rotor.
Why PBR is "better" for most people:
If you want your brakes to feel more powerful and to grip strongly from the moment of pedal application, there is no comparison: PBR is hands down the way to go. When you couple this characteristic with the relatively low dusting and ease of cleaning (compared with stock), the pad is quite nice.
Why I'm switching back to Mintex:
For street use (I don't track or autocross my VW (my background is in Vintage racing)), grip and initial bite aren't everything.







The initial bite and vaguely nonlinear feel of the PBR are beginning to drive me crazy. When I first installed them, I thought I really liked the sensation of braking power and the instant grip they offered on initial pedal application. But when the novelty wore off, they simply feel grabby, and in slick conditions they're not overly easy to modulate. The Mintex annoy a lot of people with their low friction coefficient and much higher pedal pressures, but for me, anyway, I find it a lot easier to drive smoothly on the street (trailbraking, heel & toeing, etc.) using the Redbox. But the PBR is a nice pad, and for most people they're probably a better bet.
Cheers!
- C


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## Mk4Idol (Sep 19, 2002)

*Re: ESCtuning's PBR Ceramic Vs. Mintex Red box (Ceilidh)*

Thank you Ceilidh, you are the best


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## Ceilidh (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: ESCtuning's PBR Ceramic Vs. Mintex Red box (Mk4Idol)*

You're very welcome -- have a great time with your new brakes!








- C


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: ESCtuning's PBR Ceramic Vs. Mintex Red box (Ceilidh)*

Ceilidh, good write up!
I'd like to add that I found the Mintex redbox rears quite noisy (squeaks & groans), especially with the parking brake. My Hawk HPS rears are noisy too, but not nearly as bad as the Mintex. OEM rears were by far the quietest.


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## Ceilidh (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: ESCtuning's PBR Ceramic Vs. Mintex Red box (phatvw)*

Hi Phat!
Good point(!) -- I too had some medium-pitched groaning from the handbrake when reversing (e.g., when rolling backwards on a hill while releasing the handbrake); in normal operation however (i.e., going forward with the footbrake) the Mintex was fairly quiet on my car....
How are things with the SofSports / etc.? -- any big plans for the summer?


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: ESCtuning's PBR Ceramic Vs. Mintex Red box (Ceilidh)*

PHAT, and CEILIDH, hit everything right on the nose. I have PBR ulitmate ceramics all around currently, and had the Redbox in the rear. I'm not going to repeat what they said but add a couple things.
-my redbox's would groan when the e-brake was on, and getting in and out of the car (very small movement of the rear rotor) unless the ebrake was pulled so tight you were asking to stretch the cables. 
-with the PBR's i'm experiencing a groan when juuuuuuuust hitting the brakes in reverse...dosent bother me, but never had this w/ stock or redbox.
-another thing to note is that redbox almost feel like you are compressing the pad material, liek a sliight slight almost spongey feeling.
-I absolutly understand what Ceilidh is saying about the redbox being easier to modulate. you have more pedal play to work with, using the redbox. IE hitting the brake another 1/2" down dosent throw you into the windsheild, its a very linear non-grabby feel. WHile like stated the PBR's are the complete opposite, very grippy initial bite, and alot less pedal effort needed for the same braking, but being that they are so sensitive to pedal pressure and are constantly just trying to bite "snappy" kind of feeling, this is where their weak modulation comes from.
i think this thread (Before i posted) sums up everything you can know about the two pads. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: ESCtuning's PBR Ceramic Vs. Mintex Red box (Ceilidh)*

Sofsports are doing great! Lately I've been thinking I might want to swap in some Shine front springs and see what I've been missing. Its not that the sofsports are bad - I'm very satisfied, I'm just curious how the Shines would handle.
Other than that, I really want a Peloquin differential, 3.66 final drive, upgraded clutch, and TDI 5th gear. Should give me more useable power in the lower gears while maintaining fuel economy for highway cruising. Then down the road, a VF-supercharger to get me that extra acceleration on the straights so I can pass a few more Porsches


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## Mk4Idol (Sep 19, 2002)

Where can I get OEM pads?


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## Mk4Idol (Sep 19, 2002)

anyone?


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## alwaysvw (Mar 7, 2005)

http://www.germanautoparts.com 
They sell the OEM ATE pads for a good price


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