# DIY: Innovative Motorsports MTX-L Wideband + Gauge Install



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Originally written by Maddness...

after reading an article in EuroTuner about how much they stand behind this gauge, i decided to get 1 for a mier $199

extra bung, AFR 02 sensor and gauge, custom harness, Innovate Motor Sports program on a CD to install it to your laptop, special wire and connector (the funny lookin 1 with the 2 fastenign screws on the side) to connect to your lap top, and 2 option on bezzle right and face plates for the gauge.

quit alot of stuff for that price imo.
i was surprised.

on with pics.

extra bung welding in.
i had a local shop, D&D Muffler, cut the whole. i welding it in at home.
now dont just go and put the extra bung anywhere, or directly across from the exsiting bung just because mine is.
however, it is crucial to have it aligned with the exsiting o2 sensor as this will give your gauge an exact reading of what the ECU is seeing.
you need to mount the whole thing to see exactly where you will have room for another AFR o2 sensor.
once you have found this spot, mark it and make a hole.










do not do what the dumb ass, who i bought it from, did here.
and dildo baggins sold this to me as a good usable setup.
jack ass.

anyways,
see how he's got the 2 next to eachother almost inline.
now this means your not gonna get the same reading as the ECU.
either because the ECUs o2 sensor doesnt have full flow over it OR the gauge's o2 sensor doesnt have full flow. depending on which sensor is where.

not only will it not be accurate, the placement of the second bung is too close to the heat shield and therefor i couldnt mount it with a o2 sensor in it.

ps: the cap on the 1st bung was a temporary thing. it is now on the second hole.









so i got in there with a file and bored it out a bit. took only about 10 mins or so.
and i used the gromet that in there too. it was a tight fit to get the connector through it, but it works.
i wired up the gauge too.
for the power i used 1 of those 2-in-1 fuse holders.
2 10A mini fuses, and plugged it into the head light slot on the fuse box.
and ground it just about anywhere except for "noisy" grounds (audio, ignition).

and tada. haha.

the gauge come with start up/calibration instructions, but just for the sake of this being a DIY.

so once the power and ground are connected. turn the ignition to the ON position WITHOUT the sensor connected.
keep it on for a minimum of 30 secs. turn the car off.
the connect the o2 sensor but DONOT plug the sensor into the exhaust. it needs to be callibrated in clean air.
turn the key to the ON position again, it will warm up in about 40-60 secs. depending on how cold it is.
when it is done the gauge will read max AFR, 22.4

now if you did all of the above, but didnot run the wire through the fire wall. you can disconnect the wire and o2 sensor. but DONOT turn the car on or you will have to re-calibrate the gauge.

so after all this plug in the o2 sensor into the exhaust and your good to go.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

as i said befor, i tapped it into the 10A mini fuse. fuse 19.
the other fuse towards the bottom is to my air ride. its connected to the windshield wiper fuse.










here is the power source. its under the dash. could get real good light in there, but its labled.









ground.
the 1 that isnt on securely is to my TurboTimer Companion Lite.
both of the ground didnt work with the doghnut connection. the bolt wasnt long enough to go through the heavy metal plate. so i took of the connections, and strip the wire about 1inch back and wrapped it around the bolt. works perfectly.









this will show when its heating up.









then the red light will sweep through and max out. now its ready to operate.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

btw, its the MTX-L wideband.


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## tedgram (Jul 2, 2005)

Will have to check that out. Would sure help me with tunning. $185 on Amazon.com.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

I run the lc-1 controller in all my cars and it's a good unit. The controller is a little more complicated to wire and use than similar controllers but when it's working it's one of the best (The radio plug thing is really outdated). The XD-16 gauge is another story, Ive had nothing but trouble with them (4 total in two cars). If I were to do it again, I'd go with a more simple and bullet proof analogue gauge that's compatible with the LC-1 controller :beer:


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

madmax199 said:


> I run the lc-1 controller in all my cars and it's a good unit. The controller is a little more complicated to wire and use than similar controllers but when it's working it's one of the best (The radio plug thing is really outdated). The XD-16 gauge is another story, Ive had nothing but trouble with them (4 total in two cars). If I were to do it again, I'd go with a more simple and bullet proof analogue gauge that's compatible with the LC-1 controller :beer:


I run the Innovative G5 gauge in my car.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

on the back of the gauge there are 2 connections. the kit comes with a cord that plugs into the 2 connections and the other side plugs into my laptop. i havnt quite figured out what these are for.
im thinkin tuning of some sort, but to understand how.
any ideas?
thanks.
:beer:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

so my AFR gauge works great.
i threw in a 4Bar when diagnosing my previous problem.
and i just left it in there.
i was gonna take it out, but all day long, in the city, it was reading 14.0-15.3 4500-5000 RPMs.
and on the high way it stayed at 14.7, i havnt gotten a tune yet.

around 5K it would start going rich and at redline it was about 11.3.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

the dongle is for data logging. Not a big deal for you.

You could do high speed data capture of the AFR...but you won't have RPM and other stuff to compare it to.

In other words, without a bunch more wiring, you're best off sticking with vag com or maestro (if you have eurodyne)


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

no tune as of yet. but getting Malone3+.

and i dont have VAGCOM yet either. but working on that as well. i'll need it when Mark needs to tweak my file.

is there another software i can use to maybe tweak my stock file a little bit?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> no tune as of yet. but getting Malone3+.
> 
> and i dont have VAGCOM yet either. but working on that as well. i'll need it when Mark needs to tweak my file.
> 
> is there another software i can use to maybe tweak my stock file a little bit?


lemmiwinks and the other similar programs will work...

but you'll need an odb2 programmer.

My recommendation....buy vagcom asap. I promise. You'll need it.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

groggory said:


> lemmiwinks and the other similar programs will work...
> 
> but you'll need an odb2 programmer.
> 
> My recommendation....buy vagcom asap. I promise. You'll need it.


 didnt see this till now. 
i did get VAGCOM for Christmas. very helpful. great investment. 

i still have yet to get the tune. 
and still have yet to play around with lemmiwinks.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

if anybody is on the fence about this product, i would highly recommend it. its a nice little insurance policy. its worked great from the get go. 
i have a boost/vac gauge and this AFR gauge. so if i have a boost/vac leak it reflects on both gauges. 
def worth it.:thumbup:


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> if anybody is on the fence about this product, i would highly recommend it. its a nice little insurance policy. its worked great from the get go.
> i have a boost/vac gauge and this AFR gauge. so if i have a boost/vac leak it reflects on both gauges.
> def worth it.:thumbup:


 My G5 gauge starting acting weird for me. 

I am replacing it with a Podi dual gauge that shows AFR and fuel pressure.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

i almost got a Podi gauge a few months back. its read AFRs and EGTs. but at the time i hadnt heard of them and he wanted almost full retail price for it. so for $10 extra bucks i could buy the same kit, brand spankin new. 

let me know how you like it, im interested in your review on it. 

oh ya, you should change the title of this thread. it isnt the LC-1.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

just noticed you corrected it. 
:thumbup:


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## stevke (Dec 15, 2011)

As the MTX-L has two 0-5V outputs is it possible to replace an existing standard O2 sensor with the O2 sensor provided with the gauge and wire one output to the stock ECU?

The reason I'm asking is I would like to have a wideband A/F gauge but I don't want to weld a new bung into my downpipe.

I would appreciate any advice or help, thanks


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## stevke (Dec 15, 2011)

Can anyone help? Maybe something like this? 

NOTE: I already have a wideband ecu.



MetalMan said:


> To find out what your A/F ratio is without being on a dyno you need a wideband sensor/gauge. No way around it. I went with an Innovate Motorsports MTX-L gauge/sensor. The gauge itself has the wideband controller built-in, and it allows logging and has 2 analog outputs. So here’s how I configured this:
> -Installed the wideband sensor where the stock primary O2 sensor goes, after the turbo and before the cat
> -wired an analog output from the MTX-L gauge to the stock O2 sensor wiring
> -left the 2 white heater wires on the stock O2 sensor intact, to prevent O2 sensor heater fault codes
> ...


Source: http://www.audiforums.com/forum/nit...nturbo-f4l-h-build-thread-177020/#post1351194


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

sorry for the lag broski, havnt spent much time on here. life is pickin up.

but to answer your question, idk how to do the wiring. i just welding in a new bung. but im a welder by trade, so it was easy for me.


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## stevke (Dec 15, 2011)

No problem, I keep looking.

I may have to do some work on my downpipe anyway, so this would be a perfect time for a additional bung


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

The 2 analog outputs are meant for datalogging systems, they are not meant to be used as a way to "fool" your stock ecu and replace the main 02 sensor.

You see when you use these outputs with a datalogging system, you then calibrate the system to the voltage readings you see as they match up with the gauge, or better yet the wideband manufacturer will send with it a voltage chart that you can plug into the datalog calibration. You don't have this with the stock ecu, so your basically hoping on a prayer the voltages coming from the wideband match with what the ecu wants to see, most likely... they will be "close enough" to "work okay". Well that's really not good enough for me, but I like precise tunes and with garbage input you can't have a precise tune.

It's honestly not that hard to weld another bung in to the downpipe and use 2 sensors... you also gain the ability to quickly diagnosis when your front 02 sensor is getting lazy or going bad since it will start to read slower in the datalog then the MTX-L one and vise versa, depending on which one is going bad.


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## stevke (Dec 15, 2011)

Thank you for your input. :thumbup: So it doesn't make sense to use the Innovative O2 sensor for a gauge AND the ECU.

Alright, I'll go with the additional bung then.


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## big_hot_tamale (Dec 20, 2003)

Cryser said:


> The 2 analog outputs are meant for datalogging systems, they are not meant to be used as a way to "fool" your stock ecu and replace the main 02 sensor.


I have to respectfully disagree, that's exactly what the two analog outputs are for! It specifically says in the instruction manual that if you want to run the wideband as a replacement to your narrowband, you can...by using the output 1 wire to replace your OEM signal wire..which is an oscillitating value by default, and is 'simulated' at a constant voltage by the Innovate wideband controller.

But, yes, you'll need to tune, or match the output voltage range provided by the output 1 of your innovate wideband to OEM narrowband O2 sensor specs.

searching for O2 info will yield some voltage ranges, but if anyone can quote a VW source values and post them to this thread, that would be better than assuming standard Bosch values.

Edit/Update:

The MTX-L wideband is working great in my scirocco. It was installed and replaced the oem 3-wire O2 sensor (i'm running Digifant G60). While the brown wire is a perfect output 'map', I had already put a spade connector on the yellow wire (#1). I simply hooked up a serial cable from the MTX-L to a computer, installed their programming software and set the values for the yellow wire to match the brown wire. Car runs with no problems. Just remember to follow all instructions for both install and daily use.


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

I am glad no body had the issues with this [email protected]#%ing thing like myself, first, cable melted by the downpipe, probably my fault, mustve fallen off where I had it fastened. ok my fault, finally replace cable, now my e5 error code turns to an e8 error code, just replaced the sensor over the weekend and it works for the first minute then i get the e8 code again, now I have to send this fu$%ing gauge to Innovate in Cali, on my dime, and its out of warrenty, even though its probably worked for around a month out of the year I have owned it. I imagine im goign to have to pay for them to fix it too even though its worked for like maybe 4 weeks out of the 50+ weeks I have owned it, I know I am the only only one to blame for the cable but this 200$ kit I have probably now spent another 100$ on for the extra cable and another sensor, and now I am going to have to pay to ship it back and forth to Cali, and then I am probably going to have to pay for them to fix it...not a super thrilled customer...


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

jagt21VR6 said:


> I am glad no body had the issues with this [email protected]#%ing thing like myself, first, cable melted by the downpipe, probably my fault, mustve fallen off where I had it fastened. ok my fault, finally replace cable, now my e5 error code turns to an e8 error code, just replaced the sensor over the weekend and it works for the first minute then i get the e8 code again, now I have to send this fu$%ing gauge to Innovate in Cali, on my dime, and its out of warrenty, even though its probably worked for around a month out of the year I have owned it. I imagine im goign to have to pay for them to fix it too even though its worked for like maybe 4 weeks out of the 50+ weeks I have owned it, I know I am the only only one to blame for the cable but this 200$ kit I have probably now spent another 100$ on for the extra cable and another sensor, and now I am going to have to pay to ship it back and forth to Cali, and then I am probably going to have to pay for them to fix it...not a super thrilled customer...


 Sounds like this problem was on you, sorry to say. 

I think the fact that Innovate is taking the product in for repair is a positive mark on their side.


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## jagt21VR6 (Jun 2, 2005)

yea most likely when the cable melted it shorted the controller on the gauge, sucks and i agree, my fault but still sucks!


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

*Another Install*

Hi folks, for what is worth.. here is my setup / install of the MTX-L. I also grabbed PL-1 data logger which just came yesterday and haven't gotten around to the install. I leverage the stock 02 sensor location and use the brown wire to simulate NB signal to keep ECU happy. Also, if you don't keep the stock 02 sensor plugged in you will get a DTC for the heater element inside the sensor having no signal. One thing I should note is that on the first install (the pics below) I was getting lots of electrical interference in the sensor cable which was causing the gauge to do funny things after a few mins with car running. I have to find a place to route the cable so its not so close to other electrical systems, as when I tested running the cable through the window everything looks great and gauge reads accurately. Hope this helps anyone else looking to install one of these on a NB vehicle specifically. 

Start by pulling out stock NB o2 sensor 

















Sensor line running between two grommets on passenger side firewall (DON'T DO THIS.. I am convinced this is where interference was coming from) 

















Going through the other grommet to pass the cable into the cabin 









Tucked the controller and sensor connector in next to the coolant ball 









Need to remove lower trim (don't forget to disconnect ODB2 connection) 









Vent pulled from the dash and lower trim removed 









Trimmed the bottom side of the air vent to make room for wiring 









Gauge sticks out just right from inside the air vent assembly 









Vent assembly and gauge ready to go back in the car 









Gauge and vent back in the dash 









Stock 02 tucked away 









Brown wire from controller tied into the signal wire on stock harness. I cut the sensor side to keep all wiring intact between ECU and connector. 









First time power-up with sensor disconnected (message is expected) 









Sensor connected and o2 sensor sitting in free air for calibration (reading max Lean) 









First startup after calibration (SAI pump running) 10 inch of vacuum 




 
Second start-up after calibration (SAI not running) 19 inch of vacuum


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Thread from the dead.


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