# RDS Radio Text Function



## Jarfman (Dec 25, 2004)

My W12 with premium sound has an RDS Text function that seems to only display the radio station and partial song information. THe song information does not scroll, and can be delayed by minutes. My dealer said he did not think it was designed to display anything but the station call letters. From my review of the manual I know he is mistaken. 
Does anyone have any further information?


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (Jarfman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jarfman* »_My W12 with premium sound has an RDS Text function that seems to only display the radio station and partial song information. THe song information does not scroll, and can be delayed by minutes. My dealer said he did not think it was designed to display anything but the station call letters. From my review of the manual I know he is mistaken. 
Does anyone have any further information?

I have the V8 model with the upgraded sound and my RDS only shows the stations. I have never seen songs displayed.
In addition, it does not display the songs on CD's that are playing.
A weak spot on an otherwise excellent sound system.


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (rmg2)*

I have a V8 wth the upgraded sound system.. It too displays the Station information and only partially displays the song information. 
I think I may have seen it scroll the info once, however, normally it displays a truncated bit of information.
Unfortunately, the operation of this feature is less than flawless.
Regarding the CD information - that is a different technology - it would require the system to display CD-TEXT information embedded in the CD (if that info is on the disk - I know that Sony has been producing CD-TEXT disks for a number of years).
Douglas


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## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

Where does whatever displays display? I've got the upgraded stereo and have selected the RDS option, but have never seen it. And I did check a local station that I know includes their call letters and current title text.


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## dtwphaeton (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (Jarfman)*

I have a V8 with upgraded sound. Mine displays only the radio station identifier, and has never displayed any song information. On a station that has a scrolling identifier, my display only shows the first portion and does not scroll.


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## Jarfman (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: (whealy)*

Hi Whealy,
On my car, you can see the display of the station as well as the truncated song title in the Heads Up when the Heads Up function is set to display the radio data. That is set via the steering wheel mounted selector. Additionally, if you set the Main Display to Audio and activate the RDS text button, it will display the same information as the Heads Up display. 
The only way I can get the display to change is by activating the RDS button on and off. It seems as thought the problem is with a "dynamic update" function. In other words, I think the system gets a single snapshot of informatin and displays it. It doesnot update until to cycle it on an off. I think the system boes not update the display each time a data stream is sent by the station.
Hopefully they can resolve this. I have an A-4 Cabrio and the dynamic update works great.


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## NiveK (Mar 23, 2004)

ya my alpine in my R32 works great, as well as did my stock radio in my 996 i traded in for the W12


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (Jarfman)*

RDS is not widely supported in the US as it is in Europe. I suspect most of the issues you are seeing are side effects of this poor support by US stations, not an issue with your car.
There have been several long threads about this on the Touareg forum you could search for to find more information.
Effectively though, what RDS info is broadcast, if any, is up to the individual radio stations and the equipment they have. In my area, some stations transmit station call letters only, and the display is static - never changing. A few broadcast some marketing slogan along with the call letters. Some do broadcast the song playing and it scrolls, but only as a function of the way they broadcast. The vast majority of stations broadcast no RDS info at all.
A funny anecdote however - I was driving to work one day and the DJ did one of those contests where if you were the first caller to call in with the title and artist of the old obscure song by a currently popular band, you would win tickets to a concert. I looked at the radio and saw all the info they were asking for displayed. I bet the DJ didn't even know they broadcast this info!







(I didn't care for that band, so didn't bother calling.)


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## NiveK (Mar 23, 2004)

actually most stations here in the DFW area do broadcast their station id's and artist/song title, my porsche would display all this info fine, the phaeton will only do the call letters because it does not automatically refresh like the above post stated


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (Jarfman)*

Hi John:
You have started a really, really interesting discussion here. The RDS text function has perplexed me for some time, but I have never really got around to investigating it.
First, some clarifications:
1) Anyone who has the 270 watt sound system has the same radio fitment as the W12. You can tell at a glance if you have the 270 watt sound system installed - just push the AUDIO button, and see what the softkey choice in the upper left corner of the screen is. If it is a button that gives you access to the Dynamic Signal Processing menu, you have 270 watt sound. If it says 'loudness', you do not have 270 watt sound.
2) RDS is implemented slightly differently in Europe than in North America, but the difference is supposed to be transparent to the user. In other words, it's like cell phone technology - the technical standards are different, but that doesn't affect how the user operates the phone. In Europe, the standard used is 'RDS' (Radio Data Service), in North America, the standard used is RBDS (Radio Broadcast Data Service). This is one of the reasons why North American Phaetons have a different infotainment system part number than European Phaetons.
3) Both the RDS and RBDS standards specify that the 8 character (maximum) text string that identifies the station is sent out as a different data packet than any 'dynamic' information such as the lyrics to the song being played. The standards are very clear about prohibiting stations from using the 8 character ID string in a dynamic way. So, there are two different things we are talking about here, station ID and dynamic data display.
-----------
I have always been able to see the 8 character string that identifies the radio station (e.g. _98.1 CHFI_ , or _ENERGYFM_ , but I have never, ever seen any dynamic or even semi-dynamic lyric display. I always thought that was just because the stations in my area (Toronto, Canada) did not implement that function. But, I have been advised by one station that they do support dynamic display.
It seems, then, that we have identified some kind of problem with our radio systems. Whether that is a software problem in our cars, or just a poor description of how to use the RDS / RBDS system in our owner manuals, I don't know.
In Europe, RDS is very widespread - 99% of the stations use it. I have not seen dynamic text in use on a Phaeton, but I have seen dynamic text in use on a Golf that was equipped with a VW factory installed radio. I did have a look at a Phaeton in a showroom in Europe, to see if the station ID text was any different than what we get in North America, and there was no difference there.
This subject might be worth pursuing. I think the Phaeton is intended to have the ability to display dynamic text in North America.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 2:55 PM 12-30-2004_


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## NiveK (Mar 23, 2004)

well as it was hinted to earlier, if you are on a station and it shows the station call id, beside it where the button says i think anyways "set name" if you hit that while a song is playing it will bring up the first part of the song name, and every time it highlits "set name" again as in you can push the button and it's not grayed out, it will bring up the next part of the information, so it seems like it just needs some kinda of dymamic update instead of waiting for the user to press the button


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (NiveK)*

Kevin:
Thanks a lot for that information - that fills in a missing piece of the puzzle. I think you have identified the problem pretty accurately - the radio really should automatically string together the different bursts of 'dynamic text' and update the display without the owner needing to intervene.
I'm going to bring this thread to the attention of some engineering folks I met in Dresden last month, and see if they can help us out.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 4:48 AM 12-31-2004_


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## NiveK (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

sure thing michael, when i programmed an Auto. Vehicle Locator for my company, instead of updating my maps and veh. positions every time i recieved data, i did it in time intervals of every 5 minutes or every 1000 feet of movement so that it would not kill the processor if i had 20 or more cars to follow, with this signal however i would not see the problem since it would be comming from the Radio station in bursts and it would only be monitoring the one signal, not every station at once


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## dtwphaeton (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (PanEuropean)*

Michael, I think you (and Kevin) are exactly right here. After a half-hour of playing, however, I cannot find any RDS function button -- this does not seem to be one of my softkey options on any menu. My car definitely has the 270-watt system (I have DSP). It is an '04 V8 with VIN 48011***. Could there be production variations? Or am I just being dense?


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Kevin:
Thanks a lot for that information - that fills in a missing piece of the puzzle. I think you have identified the problem pretty accurately - the radio really should automatically string together the different bursts of 'dynamic text' and update the display without the owner needing to intervene.
I'm going to bring this thread to the attention of some engineering folks I met in Dresden last month, and see if they can help us out.
Michael
_Modified by PanEuropean at 4:48 AM 12-31-2004_

I love this forum.
Keep up the great work.
I too want to know more about the RDS function.
I have the updated 270 watt sound system and only get the radio station displaying. No string text of song info and no soft-keys to press.


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## trekguy (Aug 16, 2004)

I have the standard sound system with RDS function. It displays some stations "call letters" (for example: WKSU NPR News), but that's about it.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (dtwphaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dtwphaeton* »_ Could there be production variations? Or am I just being dense?

I don't think there are any production variations at all on the 2004 infotainment systems for North America. They are either 270 watt (12 speaker) or not 270 watt (10 speaker).
I seem to recall that the RDS softkey is in the upper right corner of the screen somewhere - I'm thousands of miles away from the closest Phaeton, so I can't check, but the owner manual probably documents the location of the button. I suspect that the documentation of the RBDS system in the North American owner manual has just been lifted from the RDS system on the European cars - so it might not be correct. Kind of like the documentation problem that exists in the owner manual about programming the HomeLink transmitter.
Michael


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## Tmuldrow (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (PanEuropean)*

Greetings all. I'm an engineer for a group of radio stations in Columbia, SC. I stumbled on this thread looking for some info on VW RBDS (RDS) radios that might fit in my Beetle (so far no luck so if anyone has any suggestions that would fit correctly...send them my way).
We just recently implemented some more advanced RDS features on our stations and I thought I might be able to shine some light on the subject as the info is pretty fresh in my mind.
As PanEuropean said earlier, there are 2 different places for displaying text using RDS. The 8 character location is known as the "Program Service Name" or "PS." Typically this is static, but not always as I'll get to in a minute.
The other location is called the "RadioText field." This can be up to 64 characters long and I believe is fed to the radio as one long string. It is then up to the radio to figure out how to scroll it.
Most radios that say they support RDS will, at a minimum, display a static PS without any problems. The rest is where it gets a little hairy.
Some radios support radio text and others don't. The ones that do may scroll it automatically or may require a button to be pressed. For instance, in some Ford factory radios, the PS will automatically display, but you have to press the "RDS" button to see the RadioText.
From the station side, it benefits the station when the most people see the message. dMarc Broadcasting is a major provider of RDS based information services as well as future digital terrestrial radio (IBOC) enhanced data systems that will be rolling out more over the next few years...that is if satellite radio doesn't put local radio out of business completely.
What dMarc does on the stations they provide services for is to use the 8 character PS location as a dynamic display. They will send out bursts of information to the PS location every 1.25 seconds-2.0 seconds. Some radios will handle this proplerly and others won't. dMarc says that 1.25 is the minimum amount of time between messages. Most radios will apparently miss the messages if sent faster than that.
So long story short, the RDS issues could very possibly be a result of the way the station is sending out the RDS data. Some use a combination of PS and RadioText to send information, others just use PS.
Some other interesting features that RDS can provide that not many radios take advantage of are the ability to turn a flag on and off when a station is broadcasting either traffic or emergency information. There are also station format flags, or Program Type (PTY), whereby a station can define its format and, if the receiver is able, can be displayed. Reasoning there was so you could scan the dial for a certain format that you were looking for (Country for example). RDS data can broadcast alternate frequencies for a station so if you were listening to a station that had translators on several different frequencies, a sophisticated radio could automatically use that information to jump to another frequency that had a stronger signal in your area.
Sorry to be so lengthy, but perhaps this helps shine some light on various RDS problems that some may experience. RDS was a good idea, but it was just never adopted by the broadcast industry or the consumer electronic manufactures as a feature that anyone really needed.
On another subject, if anyone is in the Columbia, SC area and wants to provide some direct feedback on RDS things in your cars, shoot me a message. I'd love to chat.
-Trent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (Tmuldrow)*

Hi Trent:
Welcome to the forum, and thanks very much for all the information you provided. I am a bit surprised that dMarc is using the PS field for dynamically updated information. I thought that was in contravention of the specification for RDBS.
Are there any Phaeton owners in the Columbia, SC area who could connect with Trent and let him have a look at the Phaeton radio?
Michael


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## nota1.8t (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (PanEuropean)*

Hi, I have a GTI but i have the euro oem navigation. This supports the RSD function. As someone had said they needed to push a button to see more stuff (the "fixed" botton). On my unit i believe if you turn that off everything will scroll for you. I hope i can help some people out. Trent I don't think there is a navi for the bettle sorry.


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## Highline (Mar 13, 2003)

I have with me the New Bettle broschure for the 2002 model (EU Spec) and there is no NAV system offered at all.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Highline)*

*Archival Note:* Related post: RDS-any update?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Below is a photograph of a North American Phaeton, showing the softkey for turning the dynamic RDS text function on and off.
*North American Phaeton (with 9VE sound system) - J523 Controller Module*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Everyone:
Well, after a lot of research done by some very friendly and supportive Phaeton 'enthusiasts', we finally have an authoritative answer to our RDS/RBDS questions:
Sadly, North American Phaetons do not support the 'dynamic text' feature of RBDS. They do support the 8 character 'static text' RBDS transmissions that identify the station call sign or name - this we can see from the photo above - but not dynamic text.
North American Phaetons that were manufactured prior to April 2004 have a softkey visible labeled 'RDS Run, Text' - you can see this in the photo above. North American Phaetons manufactured during or after April 2004 do not have this softkey, nor the dimmed-out softkey below that reads 'set name'. Neither version of North American infotainment unit - pre or post April 2004 - supports dynamic RBDS. The only difference is that the unused softkey is not present on the later production Phaetons.
OK, all that is above is fact. Everything that follows is my own educated speculation.
First: I am guessing that VW will eventually release a 'routine' software update for the infotainment system that will get rid of the two RBDS related softkeys on North American Phaetons that were manufactured prior to April 2004. I don't think they will release an update just to fix this one issue, but I do think that whenever a routine update is issued, this will be one of the things that will be addressed.
Second: I suspect that VW does not support dynamic RBDS display in North America because North American broadcasters are not as tightly regulated, in terms of how they may use the RBDS feature, as broadcasters in Europe. In Europe, the rules for using RDS are very tightly written, and the technical specifications are exacting. The dynamic message may only be updated at a certain speed, only certain types of information (e.g. lyrics to the song that is currently playing) may be broadcast, no commercial advertising is permitted using RDS, and so forth. In North America, the rules are much looser, and there is much less regulation (oversight) of how the service is used. I do know that 'some automotive manufacturers' (I won't mention any names) have actually had customers bring cars back for service, complaining of problems with the RBDS display, and the manufacturer has found that the problem was not with the receiver, it was with the radio station that was sending the data out. A good example of this is the post earlier in this thread by a Phaeton owner who stated that he has seen some 'dynamic text' on his radio - that can only have been a result of a radio station dynamically updating the static text field, something that the North American regulations do not permit, but has been reported by several radio manufacturers to be 'not uncommon'.
Anyway -this might not be the answer we were all hoping for, but at least we now have a solid answer to our original question.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 2:00 AM 2-2-2005_


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for your work, its a pity it was not enabled http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif - I have been looking for the switch that enables it







....my late S8 which is of course a cousin, albeit distant- had this function which worked flawlessly....it was automatic and displayed on the screen in the instrument cluster. An odd oversight on a remarkable car.
Ed.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (viscount)*


_Quote, originally posted by *viscount* »_ An odd oversight on a remarkable car.

Uh, it was *not* an oversight, that's for sure. Within the VW world, it is the importers in the different countries - such as VW of NA, for the USA and Canada - who are the folks who tell the factory that produces the car how they want the vehicles configured. 
Michael


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## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Good information. Thanks for sharing.
BTW - I have a loaner Tourag today that's a pretty base V6. The scrolling RDS works just fine on it's head unit. Seems like someone at VW tamed that wacky North American standard without too much issue. Whic car was released first again???


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (Jarfman)*

*Archival Note:* Related post about RDS - click here


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## rps (May 2, 2006)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (PanEuropean)*

My 2006 Phaeton V8 has never displayed the names of songs.
My 2005 Mini Cooper S always does. So it doesn't seem to be a US standard, but rather depends on the radio itself.
Richard


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (rps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rps* »_My 2006 Phaeton V8 has never displayed the names of songs.

Correct, because VW of America has disabled the dynamic RDS string (the 64 character string) in all their NAR products, for reasons discussed at the post I referenced above.
Honestly, I can't blame them for doing this - even though I know a bit about the standard, I was confused as heck when I was taking the photos for the other post.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (PanEuropean)*

Here is a link to more information about why RDS (RDBS) does not work in North America: Pictures of ROW Phaeton Radio operating in NAR


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## davofanmail (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (PanEuropean)*

Hi all,
Discovered a work-around for this topic. I own an early 2004 US Phaeton that has the RDS button...I'm not sure how you'd do this work-around with later models. 
Starting point:
- If the radio finds a new FM station and it doesn't have a label yet, as soon as the radio receives any RDS string from the station, it puts that label in the station's slot.
- If you don't like that string (8 letters), you push the "RDS" button off, wait a couple of seconds later to turn it back on.
- 30 seconds or so later you'll see the "set name" button is no longer grayed out, indicating there's another string you could substitute in.
- If you hit the "set name" button _and wait 10 seconds_ you'll see the "set name" button go gray again and you'll get a replacement string for that station. It might be the same letters, or it might be something new.
- In my area, 90% of commercial stations broadcast RDS that's along these lines:
987 KRAP Smooth Rock Billy Joel Still R&R to Me
This will show up as 4 or 5 strings, and every time you cycle the RDS and Set
Name buttons you'll get one of them. Eventually, you'll get either "987 KRAP"
or "Smooth R" and you're done.
Clumsy, but hey you only need to do it one time for all the stations in your area.
Note most educational/non-commercial stations don't broadcast RDS, so they stay blank.



_Modified by davofanmail at 11:24 AM 1-13-2009_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (davofanmail)*

*Archival Note:* There is some additional discussion about RDS / RBDS on page 4 of this thread: Cell Phone Update.
I have also appended a standards paper describing RBDS standards - the yellow highlighting was added by me, to point out the abuse problem in North America that has caused numerous automakers (VW included) to disable this function on vehicles they import to NAR. The problem the automakers faced was that car owners were making warranty claims and service visits because "the RBDS wasn't working right" when the actual cause of the problem was failure of the broadcasters to adhere to the published standard.
Michael


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## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I know that you spend a lot of time as moderator of this forum, and I cannot express how truly grateful I am for the wealth of information that is contained here. Which is why I really hesitate to complain about anything.
But, here it is: Not having the pictures on the various threads is really, really frustrating. I know that some of them have been re-hosted, but the vast majority of them seem to be missing. 
All of those photos that you have painstakingly taken over the years are like gold nuggets, and it is so disappointing to think I'm going to scroll down and see something, only to find its little placeholder.
I don't understand why do they keep getting erased.
Nonetheless, thanks for all that you do. I really appreciate it. I just appreciate it a little more when I can see it.


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (357Sig)*

I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the site that was hosting all of Michael's photos went south (thus all the picture links in the old posts are now dead); Rich at OEMPL.US was gracious enough to set up a new server to host pictures, but copying all the old pictures to the new server is only half the battle, since every single post with a picture would have to be edited to path the new URL of the rehosted picture.
I agree that the pics are "gold" and perhaps we could all chip in somehow to correct the links in the old posts, but I certainly wouldn't expect Michael to do this alone!
(PS - Rich/Michael, I'd be willing to volunteer to assist with this any way I can)


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (CLMims)*

Hi Chris:
Rich has the server back up and running, but the little macro routine that I use to upload the photos to the site is not working. Rich is aware of this and has promised to look into it.
So, for the moment, all the pictures that I have previously uploaded to Dubfoto are displaying OK, but I cannot easily upload new ones... hence the reason I have been unable to fix the missing photos on this thread and others.
Michael


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## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (PanEuropean)*

Michael (and all the others that make this forum the amazing place it is),
All that you do really adds significant value to our Phaetons. Without this community many of the Phaetons in North America would be under-appreciated orphans, instead of beloved family members. 
I really appreciate your efforts.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: RDS Radio Text Function (357Sig)*

Photo now re-hosted. Thanks to Rich for getting the photo server back up and running.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted again.

Michael


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## ae86boy (Jul 9, 2013)

I have resurrected this thread from the dead because it talks about RDS.

My car's RDS system is stuck with station names from eastern canada. At the beginning of the thread determining the two system types was discussed...when hitting the audio button I have "DSP" in the top left, so accordingly I should see an RDS function somewhere, but I cannot find it.

What am I missing (besides intelligence?)? Id really like to have my radio stations named what they ARE.

Help!


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## ae86boy (Jul 9, 2013)

I see from reading more threads that the RDS function was cancelled by VW due to warranty claims caused by NAR radio stations violating RDS rules.

If this is the case, I still suffer from the issue of station naming. The stations all have names on them, but I cannot find a way to change them. How did they get there in the first place if RDS is non-functional and there is no obvious way to change them?

I even braved use of the reset button both on the audio page and the general reset, but nothing happened.


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