# MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding



## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

This weekend I am going to bleed all the brakes as well as the clutch. Car is a 2003 24v vr6. I have a couple questions.

-What is the sequence to bleed the brakes? I hear its not the normal RR,LR,FR,FL sequence with the newer cars w/ ABS, and its somehow opposite







IF anyone has a bently for the 2003's and up that would be wonderful.
-Car has the 02m tranny, i only see one bleeder nipple on it, is that the only one? I want to do a complete fluid change on the entire clutch system. I will be using a power bleeder, will it be better to pump the clutch while bleeding it, or just let the power bleeder do its thing?
-Finally, I assume you do the brakes first, and the clutch last.

Thanks.


_Modified by Banditt007 at 2:50 AM 10-6-2004_


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## JoeVeeDubber (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

If you can do a writeup on how to bleed the clutch on the 02M, I would really appreciate that! I need to go out and but the Bentley CD too, hehe.


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## White Jetta (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (JoeVeeDubber)*

I just flushed my brakes 2 weeks ago using the Motive Power Bleeder.I wanted to do the clutch system as well,but i didn't know where to start with it.I flushed my system using the RR,LR,RF,RL method without a problem,and i used ATE Blue.Brakes still feel as good as when i bought the car http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by White Jetta at 7:45 PM 10-6-2004_


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## HilF (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (White Jetta)*

general rule of thumb is start with the "wheel" furthest from the resevior.
clutch, i believe there is a bleed nipple on the tranny, next to where the hard "brake" line goes in.
i have a cable clutch so i'm not 100% sure how it goes.
good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (white_r!ce)*

Thanks, we have to (I) thank white rice for telling me what the part # was for the last component in my making of a homemade brake bleeder.! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## HilF (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## kdiver58 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

IM me I have pictures and dimensions on a home made adapter you can make for your brake bleeder


_Modified by kdiver58 at 2:04 PM 10-10-2004_


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## Shad (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (white_r!ce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *white_r!ce* »_general rule of thumb is start with the "wheel" furthest from the resevior.
clutch, i believe there is a bleed nipple on the tranny, next to where the hard "brake" line goes in.
i have a cable clutch so i'm not 100% sure how it goes.
good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

You're right. There's a bleed valve after clutch's slave cyl.


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Shad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shad* »_
You're right. There's a bleed valve after clutch's slave cyl.

So to flush out all the old fluid of the brake/clutch system, there is one bleeder valve on each caliper as well as that one bleeder valve on the tranny, or is there 2 on the tranny b/c i thought i read that somewhere. Its for an 02M (24v 6-speed) tranny. Thanks


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## kdiver58 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

Did you get my pictures ?


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (kdiver58)*

Yes i did much appreciated!


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (kdiver58)*

well i did the brake flush/clutch flush....rather easy to do. My home made power bleeder *hit the bed LOL. I tried to use an adapter like kdiver58 sent me some pics of, of his, and it worked, but didnt hold enough pressure, leaked a bit, and wound up blowing off the brake fluid reservour and shooting out all my brake fluid everywhere. So i think i'm going to use the MKIII cap that WHITE RICE sent me the part # for. So being that i couldnt use the power bleeder i did the old manual way w/ a friend. so on to the good stuff.. some tips/tricks ect.

TOOLS
11mm wrench
6mm angled wrench
1/4" INNER DIAMETER clear tubing.
32-45 FL OZ of dot 3, 4, or 5.1 brake fluid NOT DOT 5
a friend/lover/stranger as long as they can follow directions.

First i topped off the fluid reservour as in filled to the brim
went to the PASSANGER REAR caliper, popped off the rubber bleeder nipple cap, pushed on some 1/4 hose that ran from the nipple to a 2 liter soda bottle that submerged the tube in brake fluid. Had my friend pump the brake pedal a few times then hold on the brakes. I then cracked open the bleeder screw, until his foot was about 3/4 of the way down on the brakes. then shut the valve (shut the valve while he/she/it is still pushing down on the pedal, then repeate until you blow the air out of the tube and it is filled w/ solid fluid. 
You must do this at a moderate pace in the beggining. The reason being is that there will be an air bubble that keeps trying to get to the top of the tube near the nipple, once you blow that out and its solid fluid, you can just leave the valve open and have your partner pump to his hearts content until you see that new fluid is comming out of the tube. 

He seemed to pump the pedal kind of quick and i think that got some microscopic air bubles in the system, which you could see in the tube, which look like 2" tiny strings of mucus flowing in the brake fluid (sorry the best explination of it, actually there is a better one but i might get banned







) after the fluid comming out of the caliper appeared to be new, i closed the valve, replaced the rubber cap and moved to the DRIVER REAR, then PASSANGER FRONT.

Then DRIVER FRONT. The front brakes take alot LESS time than the rears, new fluid shows within 5 pumps of the pedal. Something to note the fluid does not go from old straight to new, it kind of blends in and SLOWLY changes over. Hold up a clear container w/ some new brake fluid in it and compare it to what the fluid in the tube looks like, so you know for sure. 

The old stuff looks like a root beer, the new looks like white wine. Now to the clutch. BTW i think i am the only one to describe the clutch bleeding on an 02M on vortex, i searched everywhere and didnt see a thing about it. Anyway the bleeder nipple is smaller than the ones on the brakes. its located more towards the front of the car directly behind the shifter(where the 2 cables w/ springs attach) and alittle towards the passanger side. 

It sticks straight up w/ a rubber cap on it, and is inline w/ a 1/4" hard plastic tube that runs side to side. if you are unsure tap the nipple w/ a wrench while your friend has his foot on the clutch, he/she/it will feel it through the clutch pedal. put your angles wrench around the base of the nipple, put on the clear tubing going up into the 2 liter bottle w/ brake fluid have him work it just like the brakes.

pump up the clutch for a bit then hold the pedal to the floor, and crack open the valve, when the flow slows. Shut off the valve, have him pump it up a few times then hold it to the floor and repeat, once there is no chance of air getting sucked back in (which there shouldnt be since the tube goes straight up then into the container, just leave it open and pump away till new fluid shows then tighten the valve. 

A trick to removing the hose w/o spilling all the brake fluid out of it is to grab the hose right above the nipple w/ some pliers pinching the hose off. Then replace the dust cap and your done, make sure your fluid level is okay in the reservour and your all set. A trick is on the rear calipers, fill the fluid up to the brim in the reservour. after about 10 pumps from the helper, refill to the very top, then you are good w/ the fluid level until it bleeds new fluid. 
For the front, since they dont take long, just fill reservour to the very top and then do the full bleed. Then top off then do the other front, then the clutch. The clutch will bleed the quickest.
I noticed after the bleed the pedal feel sucked, i was sure we didnt suck up any air bubbles b/c i watched the tubes like a hawk. I think what it was was micro bubbles created from the helper pumping the pedal too quickly. nice slow long strokes are whats needed you dont want to stir up the fluid. Seems over night the pedal feel felt ALOT better, i mean it was really soft immediatly after the bleed and you had to hit them further down for the same bite. now they came back to about 70% of what they were w/ the pedal firmness. 

I think this is all attributed to the helper pumping the pedals too fast. Another note, is make sure the fluid level dosent drop past the MIN marking on the container, b/c then you suck up air and your screwed. After your done activate the ABS a few times, that helps the brake feel and just gets the new stuff in there ready to work. I'm not sure if the 6mm wrench size is correct, but its give or take 1mm. pretty sure it was 6mm though. Set aside a full hour and 1/2 for this job, just b/c as everyone knows, some BS happens no matter how small the job, for the first time it should take only about 1/2-1 hour. Just a good feeling that all that brown nasty fluid is out of the system. The softer pedal feel does not seem to contribute to the brakes not working under the extreems. 

ALthough i thought it would. That night i got the brakes to glow bright orange at all four corners. Although soft pedal that night (before beating on the brakes) The pedal did not change, after sitting over night as i previously mentioned the pedal feel came back dramaticly, and subsequent rotor glowing braking sessions have not changed the brake pedal feel.

Sorry this post is uber long and scattered thoughts but i felt i owed something to the tex, you all have helped me learn so much about these cars, and got me through some jobs that i wouldnt feel confident doing w/o you guys coaching me through it.


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## JoeVeeDubber (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

Excellent writeup! Did you consider using a vacuum bleeder system? I think I am going to try that the next time I have to bleed brakes. No pumping of the pedal at all.


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## DemonEater (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

Damn, where was this post earlier when I was getting ready to do my brakes? I got caught out by both the 11mm wrench (my metric set had 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, and 13) and the 1/4" i.d. tubing.
Great job, even though you're late








[Edit]: For any saps with rear drums following this, rear drum bleeders take a 7mm wrench. This has been another... useless fact.



_Modified by DemonEater at 2:29 AM 10-22-2004_


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## kdiver58 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

15 to 20 pounds of pressure is all that you can use. http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm 


_Modified by kdiver58 at 4:36 AM 10-23-2004_


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## kdiver58 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (JoeVeeDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoeVeeDubber* »_Excellent writeup! Did you consider using a vacuum bleeder system? I think I am going to try that the next time I have to bleed brakes. No pumping of the pedal at all.


I tried vacuum bleeding and had very little volume. That's why I ended up building the pressure bleeder


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (kdiver58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kdiver58* »_ 15 to 20 pounds of pressure is all that you can use.


Yeah i barely pumped it up, and it blew off, i must have not made mine nearly as well as you did. Next time i'm just going to use a solid reservour cap. drill a hole through the top and put the fitting on like that.


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (JoeVeeDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoeVeeDubber* »_Excellent writeup! Did you consider using a vacuum bleeder system? I think I am going to try that the next time I have to bleed brakes. No pumping of the pedal at all.


I did not consider using a vacuum bleeder system b/c i heard that sometime they will suck up air from outside, making it appear that you have air in the system when in reality you dont. Also during some quick research of it, it seemed that manual/pressure bleeding was where it was at. The vacuum bleeding didnt get too much praise, i do not remember exactly what the pros/cons were of the vacuum bleeder was, just that it was not liked by many.


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## cchen1 (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

15 to 20 lbs is too much. That is a sure fire way of blowing up your reservoir, as you have already learned. It's a good thing you didn't ruin the reservoir and crack it (as I have seen before). Keep it under 15 lbs - 10 to 14 lbs is a safe amount.


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## kdiver58 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (cchen1)*

The 5 times I've done it 15 worked just fine YMMV


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (cchen1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cchen1* »_15 to 20 lbs is too much. That is a sure fire way of blowing up your reservoir, as you have already learned. It's a good thing you didn't ruin the reservoir and crack it (as I have seen before). Keep it under 15 lbs - 10 to 14 lbs is a safe amount.


I dont know if this post was directed at me or kdriver58, but i can say mine didnt hold 10psi before the cap blew off....its a weird cap type thing though made out of neoprene fender washers and such. I didnt mean my BS blew up and shot fluid all over, i just didnt make it right and it couldnt hold anything for good pressure.


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## cchen1 (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (kdiver58)*

kdiver58 - Hmm, I guess I should edit the previous statement. 15 psi works, but put it up to 20 psi and you're asking for trouble. Somebody at work pressurized the bleeder to 20 psi (they mistook the Kpa lines for psi) and when the person I was working with opened up the pressure bleeder, the reservoir lasted all of ten seconds before cracking and literally blowing brake fluid all over the engine compartment. Scared the crap out of me. Good thing I wasn't the one standing right there.







Ever since then, I keep the psi under 14 just in case.


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## kdiver58 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (cchen1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cchen1* »_kdiver58 - Hmm, I guess I should edit the previous statement. 15 psi works, but put it up to 20 psi and you're asking for trouble. Somebody at work pressurized the bleeder to 20 psi (they mistook the Kpa lines for psi) and when the person I was working with opened up the pressure bleeder, the reservoir lasted all of ten seconds before cracking and literally blowing brake fluid all over the engine compartment. Scared the crap out of me. Good thing I wasn't the one standing right there.







Ever since then, I keep the psi under 14 just in case.


Better safe than sorry. Truth be known 5 psi would be fine for what I do. I still pump the brakes to get the fluid out faster.


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## rowdyzombie (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (Banditt007)*

I did my own brake fluid change at 20K, so I could save the dough. I just topped off the fluid, then kept adding so I never actually bled the system, but flushed to old fluid out with new fluid on the 4 calipers. However, I couldn't figure out the clutch bleeder valve for the clutch. I took off the cap, but the valve didn't seem to be designed to turn. It seemed it would have to pull out straight, not by turning it with a wrench. It seemed to be coverd in the clutch slave mechanism itself. I saw it on the Bentley CD, and it just says to remove the valve. I just left it since I didn't want to screw anything up. I wonder if the 02M on the 24Valve has a different design from the 1.8T 02M. Anyone done the clutch on a 337/20th? Or was I just tired that day or perhaps hallunicating ?


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV brake and clutch flush / bleeding (rowdyzombie)*

do what i did in my above post and tap on it while someone has their foot on the clutch, if they feel it in the pedal that is it. just has a rubber cap on it (diff cap than the calipers) and as i remember is a small brass nipple, you need to slide an angled wrench down there and slip the nipple through the circular part of it, then attach the hose and go from there, it turns, it wasn't on too tight, i was just afraid the plastic tubing connecting to it would break b/c it seemed brittle. but it just torqued alittle bit then the nip broke free.


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