# '06 Phaeton W12 going to the airstrip runway.



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

The entire reason I bought my '06 W12 was for the engine. I already own a '05 black on black 4-seater that other than the engine (v8) is the exact same car in better shape and had better wheels and better wood type choice.

But the lure of 6.0 12 cyl and the potential behind it was too much to resist. I bought it knowing I would need to fix it up a bit..but also knowing I plan on putting it to it's potential.

I've owned and hotrodded VW for the last 25 years. I've modified just about all of them and taken them as fast as they would go.

My Mk4 R32 I've had up to 154mph on the GPS.


The W12 is a unique vehicle in many ways.. but beyond it's luxury.. it has the engine and chassis pedigree to be capable of an honest 200mph with a few minor modifications.


I have a pending sale on my V8 so the time has come to get serious with the W12.


Today myself and a few friends signed up for a 1/2 mile event in Georgia in Sept at an airstrip. This will be a shakedown for the W12.. more for fun than anything as I am well aware that without forced induction, 1/2 mile is nowhere near enough distance to generate any real speed.

There is a full mile (Texas Mile) in the fall.. but if I am going to drive to Texas, I probably will say screw it and just drive to the salt flats, do a recon route to make sure everything is clear and turn around and floor it to see if I can't hit an honest 200mph.


Anyway, the purpose of this thread is simply to say I am doing the 1/2 in Sept and see if anyone wants to join us.

As far as preparations to the car, that will be in my other thread- LINK

The event holders website is www.WannaGofast.com 

We are doing the event on Sunday. On Saturday, we will be driving on the Tail of the Dragon. (Google it)


Dennis will be driving up from Florida in his W12 as well, but only to spectate at this point.

Spectators are only $15. 

If anyone wants to just come along for the drive and experience, we are leaving Jersey on Thursday afternoon.. driving a good chunk, getting dinner at a restaurant, hotel, driving more on Friday, more food, drink, hotel,.. tail of the dragon on Saturday, 1/2 mile event on Sunday and start home on Monday.


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## Passat2001_5lover (Dec 11, 2001)

*Take videos!*

Good luck. Sounds exciting. Maybe invite VW also! Woot Woot.

Tim


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## cbh123 (Aug 25, 2013)

Keep that v8 lady driven, no testing it anymore! Rub some wax on it - make a happy buyer hahaha


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

Where in GA is this event? I'm an hour northwest of Chattanooga and it sounds like an interesting weekend. And what is the exact date?

Cantrell


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

Cantrellc123 said:


> Where in GA is this event? I'm an hour northwest of Chattanooga and it sounds like an interesting weekend. And what is the exact date?
> 
> Cantrell


I found it; Clayton GA. Sept 13-14 2014

I'd estimate 90 min east of Chattanooga. I'd guess overnight accommodations will be slim to none anywhere near Clayton.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Josh:

If that airstrip is still being used for aircraft, be alert to the presence of rubber deposits about 1,000 feet in from the far end of the runway. If there is any moisture on the runway surface (dew, for example, or very light rain), your braking action will be horrible once you hit those touchdown zone rubber deposits. That could result in a very unpleasant surprise if you are braking heavily as you approach the far end of the runway.

If it is dry outside - especially if it is sunny and dry, and the runway surface is warm - then this is not a concern.

Michael


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Michael, 

Thanks for the heads up.

This event is held by a 'professional' company that has done this many times before. They assuredly make a recon inspection prior to the event days.

My friends did the event last Sept and had more than enough room to slow down. So much so that they didn't hit the brakes at the end of the 1/2 mile.. but kept their foot in it for quite a bit longer than the timed section.


Also, the Phaeton won't be going that fast in 1/2 mile. I'm guessing only 130 if I am lucky, and even that will include some basic modifications to increase hp a bit.


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

Sounds interesting.

Exhaust, intake, remap with slightly rised rev limit could yeld some additional HP/Nm out of NA W12, but the tranny (5hp24a) is only rated at 560Nm from ZF (W12 Phaeton has 550Nm...) will it be able to handle any additional power?


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

The '06 W12 is rated 560nm / 413 lb ft.

As most anything VW does, I would imagine there is a healthy margin between the stated rating for capacity and reality.

There is only one way to find out and that is to do it.

If the trans gives me issues in the future, I intend on putting in a Bentley trans which will handle more power and give me 6 gears with more aggressive 1-5 and a lower 6th.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)




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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

Phaeton W12 uses beefed up version of 5hp24a tranny (01L rated at 560Nm same as RWD 5hp30) similar to Audi A8 D2 W12 and RS6(C3) gearbox.
Early Bentley Conti-GT/FS, as well as Audi A8 D3 w12 use 6hp26 (09E-6HP-26 A61/650Nm) but its mounted a bit differently... also Phaeton V10TDI uses 6 speed (09F-6HP-32A/770Nm).

*01L 5speed vs 09E 6speed:*









** A special feature of particular note with
regard to the 09E automatic gearbox is the
location of the front axle differential (flange
shaft) in front of the torque converter.
The distance between flange shaft and
engine flange is now only 61 mm
(01L = 164 mm). **
*
Phaeton 01L 5speed (W12) vs 09F 6speed (V10):*









PS: IPT and Level 10 claim they can upgrade 5hp24A to handle more power....


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Fitting that 'box will probably be a piece of cake for him compared to dismantling the dashboard.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Thank you for the trans info. I never considered the CGT would have a different length (wheelbase?)


Level 10 is only about an hour from me. Oddly enough, in my hometown.. go figure. They've been there for a long time.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Wheelbases, 2003 to 2014:*

Bentley CGT = 2.746m 108.1"
Phaeton = 2.881m 113.4"
Phaeton LWB = 3.001m 118.1"
Bentley FS = 3.066m 120.7"


Chris


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

Don't take my word for it, it might still be possible (somehow) to swap in a transmission from V10/D3W12/GT/FS, but I think upgrading stock tranny is one of the first options to consider. Also if that event allows for weight reductions - that might help as well... there are plenty of heavy parts that are not needed to reach maximum acceleration/speed and if removed they wont stress that tranny so much.

Intake and exhaust alone might get some HP/TQ, but the main source for power is letting that engine redline at higher rpms... hence remap is needed to get more out of it in a NA form. W12 on Audi D3 I believe already has a slightly higher RPM at which it achives full power (450hp/6200 580Nm/4000). Nardo W12 concept had even more - 600hp at 7000 rpm (620Nm/5800), also Spiker used NA W12s with 500hp/600Nm...

http://www.atzonline.com/Article/2126/The-New-6-l-W12-Engine-in-the-Audi-A8.html

As seen from this article... W12 was improved here and there, but I think Nardo W12 (even though it had 12:1 CR as oposed to our 10,75:1) was closer in design to first W12 engines and if it managed to run "7740.576 kms at an average speed of 322.891 km/h"... basicaly at red line for 24 hours, so can our engine cope with a few seconds of higher rpms...

http://www.rsportscars.com/volkswagen/2004-volkswagen-w12-concept/
http://www.supercars.net/cars/1872.html
http://www.autointell.com/european_...ts/w12-testdrive/volkswagen-w12-testdrive.htm

PS: From numbers it seems like Touareg W12 has better optimised ECUs (450hp/6000 and 600Nm/3000, with 2542kg - 0-100 in 5.8 sec... although it uses diferent tranny, not ZF made)


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

Is the trip still in your plans?

Cantrell


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Cantrellc123 said:


> Is the trip still in your plans?




Yes, although at this point the car with stock. I haven't been able to complete it to get it up to the tuner for more power. I've just removed the snow screens and put in normal air filters with no dust foam layer.


Dennis (user MadReg98 ) is on the fence about driving up to join us from Florida with his 2005 W12. I'd like for him to come out so we can do some head to head 1/2 mile runs to see if the '06 is actually any faster than the 05. 

I have gopro cameras somewhere that we can film the events with. I'm also looking forward to the tail of the dragon. Should be a fun weekend. We are leaving here next Thursday after Bill gets off work, driving down Friday.. doing the dragon on Sat and the airstrip on Sunday. Driving back home on Monday.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Is this an annual event? Be nice to run it stock then again after modifications.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

PowerDubs said:


> Spectators are only $15.
> 
> If anyone wants to just come along for the drive and experience, we are leaving Jersey on Thursday afternoon.. driving a good chunk, getting dinner at a restaurant, hotel, driving more on Friday, more food, drink, hotel,.. tail of the dragon on Saturday, 1/2 mile event on Sunday and start home on Monday.






Just to reiterate and extend the invitation to anyone that hasn't seen this before. :thumbup::beer:


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

PowerDubs said:


> Just to reiterate and extend the invitation to anyone that hasn't seen this before. :thumbup::beer:


That sounds like a whole lot of fun, and I gave it serious consideration, but I'm still poking at some potential oil-pressure issues that I should resolve before aggressive driving.

Jason


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

jyoung8607 said:


> That sounds like a whole lot of fun, and I gave it serious consideration, but I'm still poking at some potential oil-pressure issues that I should resolve before aggressive driving.
> 
> Jason




OOF. That is never a good thing.

How do you know you are having an issue? Considering we don't have a pressure gauge, just an idiot light, are you hearing odd noises, or..?

I hope they didn't go heavy handed on the RTV putting your engine back together and clog a passageway.


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

I floored my W12 (2006) on steep up-hill road and measured the torque reported by the gearbox via VCDS. It appears to be electronically limited to 500 Nm, because it sort of flatlined there regardless of shifting and load. Straight line.

/per


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Correct. The trans controller talks to the ECU and sends them TQ requests. As does the ABS controller for the traction and stability control. All of which override your foots TQ request on the gas pedal.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

PowerDubs said:


> OOF. That is never a good thing.
> 
> How do you know you are having an issue? Considering we don't have a pressure gauge, just an idiot light, are you hearing odd noises, or..?
> 
> I hope they didn't go heavy handed on the RTV putting your engine back together and clog a passageway.


I don't know for sure. I know my cam adjuster issue is back the same way it was before after everything involved was replaced, and I now have a tick of some sort over bank 1/2 when oil temperature is up above 150 or so. My oil pressure gauge just showed up from Amazon so I'm going to find out.

Something in this engine hates me. It runs and drives fine, but this stuff makes me nervous. I hope I'm being overly paranoid, but it's basically parked until I get to the bottom of it.


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

I'm still contemplating attending on Sunday. The biggest issue I have is a family wedding that I must attend Saturday with family from all over the USA coming into town for the event. I'd think most if not all would be returning home somewhat early Sunday, but if some stay most of Sunday it'll be proper of me to stick around and socialize being we see each other so seldom.
If I were to attend I'd be glad to provide an 04 W12 to see the difference between an 04 & 06 if that were needed. I'd be glad to run head to head if wanted. 

Cantrell


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Cantrellc123 said:


> If I were to attend I'd be glad to provide an 04 W12 to see the difference between an 04 & 06 if that were needed. I'd be glad to run head to head if wanted.





Awesome. I'll buy dinner and libations.


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

PowerDubs said:


> Awesome. I'll buy dinner and libations.


What time Sunday will the activities start? I'd really enjoy I'm sure.

Cantrell


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Dunno. Haven't bothered to look too close yet.


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## pdejong0 (May 16, 2011)

Wow... Please make sure somebody films this! Would make a great addition to this thread. Best wishes in making this happen, and have fun!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Honestly there won't be much to film. It is only a 1/2 mile at this event, so I am guessing I will hit only the low 120 mph.

I also expect to be the slowest car there. There are cars with 1500+ whp that weigh half as much!

The real test for this car will come once I get it out west and can floor it for several miles.



Inspiration-


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## pdejong0 (May 16, 2011)

;-) Nice!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

On the blue ridge parkway.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Good luck Josh

The Bentley clip is fantastic 

Regards,

Salah


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Today was a great day.

This is a FANTASTIC road. There was virtually nobody on it and we did 60-70mph for several hours.. (Couple hundred miles) seemed like all day.


















































Underneath that road












The # tag on my door of the hotel, they must've known I was coming. Everyone else has stuff like flowers or cats-


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## pdejong0 (May 16, 2011)

Keep it coming! ;-)


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

https://vimeo.com/106054607


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Stats???

Wasn't the Blue Ridge Parkway the one they waxed lyrical about on Top Gear, then bitched about the speed limit???


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Speed limit?


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Turned off the video before the end because it looked like they were going slow and short shifted. They still trapped 218mph in the 1/2 mile.

https://vimeo.com/106062973


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Better video. Amazing speed from a dead stop to 218mph in only 2640 feet.


..and he wasn't even trying. No hard launch, not reving out every gear. Effortless. 


Expensive, but effortless.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

PowerDubs said:


> It is only a 1/2 mile at this event, so I am guessing I will hit only the low 120 mph.
> 
> I also expect to be the slowest car there.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Jealous.  If you make this an annual thing, I'll be your comparison BRP racer after your performance tuning.

No video of your run?

Jason


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Friend has video, will need to be uploaded later. We are still here.

Anybody think I can do this again?


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

What fuel are you using? I doubt much ethanol.

Did you lower it at all?

Did you get an interior video?


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

93 octane, 10% ethanol sticker on every pump we went to. Car lowered to euro spec on vagcom. 10mm?


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)




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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Very impressive for a vehicle that weighs about the same as a herd of elephants! Bet you're itching to try again after a few modifications.....


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Beautiful!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> Very impressive for a vehicle that weighs about the same as a herd of elephants! Bet you're itching to try again after a few modifications.....






Yes. I am very happy that the car that I had in a million pieces and hadn't driven in well over a year just made a successful 1600+ mile round trip and performed flawlessly.

It did what it should do on the highway- comfort at 75-80 cruising speeds for long distances of many hundreds of miles. 



It did better than expected for several hours of hard sporty turns in the Blue Ridge Parkway (average turns 60-70mph.. more tunnels than I can count, several 100mph straights). Fantastic road- I'd consider it a MUST DRIVE for anyone in the U.S. It IS worth the trip.

Example pics-




























































The car did an indicated 130mph on the speedo at one point before I had to let off. I was disappointed to not be able to confirm where or even if there is a speed limiter on it.


The car was surprisingly well admired at the air strip.. considering there were many interesting cars there. Many conversations either from people wanting to know what it was, or who knew what it was and wanted to talk / take a look.


The Audi wagon was running 25 pounds of boost, and was making waaaay more HP/TQ than the W12 makes... but only in a small RPM range due to turbo lag, and hard to stay in it with gearing..or to launch effectively with the stick shift. The Phaetons wide range of power moves it quite well for it's weight.



I will indeed be excited to see what some modifications will do.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm guessing you were the only one there with a W12 engine, too??


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Yes. 

Amusingly, when I went through tech inspection, the guy asked me to pop the hood..which I did..and he paused and then said- "Um.. is the battery secured?". Not wanting to complicate and draw out matters, I said yes. he stuck a 'Passed Tech' label on the car and moved on to the next one.


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## climbingcue (Feb 2, 2001)

It was a fun event.


Bill


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

PowerDubs said:


> It did better than expected for several hours of hard sporty turns in the Blue Ridge Parkway (average turns 60-70mph.. more tunnels than I can count, several 100mph straights). Fantastic road- I'd consider it a MUST DRIVE for anyone in the U.S. It IS worth the trip.


Stunning pics... I'm very jealous. Next year for sure, if you go again.



PowerDubs said:


> The car did an indicated 130mph on the speedo at one point before I had to let off. I was disappointed to not be able to confirm where or even if there is a speed limiter on it.


I can confirm -- I mean, my friend can confirm -- that there is a limiter at 130mph actual/~135mph indicated.



PowerDubs said:


> The Audi wagon was running 25 pounds of boost, and was making waaaay more HP/TQ than the W12 makes... but only in a small RPM range due to turbo lag, and hard to stay in it with gearing..or to launch effectively with the stick shift. The Phaetons wide range of power moves it quite well for it's weight.


You may not be the fastest there, but every one of your runs was consistent, and you can do them reclined with the A/C on while getting a back massage, and you're not trailering it home.



PowerDubs said:


> Amusingly, when I went through tech inspection, the guy asked me to pop the hood..which I did..and he paused and then said- "Um.. is the battery secured?". Not wanting to complicate and draw out matters, I said yes. he stuck a 'Passed Tech' label on the car and moved on to the next one.


That is awesome. 

Jason


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> You may not be the fastest there, but every one of your runs was consistent, and you can do them reclined with the A/C on while getting a back massage, and you're not trailering it home.


Made me laugh! That's exactly what it is all about for me! 

CB


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

jyoung8607 said:


> Jealous.  If you make this an annual thing, I'll be your comparison BRP racer after your performance tuning.




There is another event soon.



> Driver Registration for the January 24-25th, 2015 Florida 1/2 Mile Shootout at Jumbolair Airport in Ocala, FL opens, THIS FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 7TH, 2014 at 8am EASTERN TIME!!




Is anyone else interested? The spots sell out quickly.


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## pdejong0 (May 16, 2011)

When PowerDubs is finished, he's going to give this bike some competition:

http://rt.com/news/203779-rocket-powered-bicycle-record/


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

"The brakes are ordinary rubber pads "

0-207mph in 4.8 secs. OK, glad it's got _some_ brakes! :screwy:


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

PowerDubs said:


> There is another event soon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Well, I'm not going to the event in Florida because nobody I know can make it and I'm not driving all the way to FL and back by myself.


There is a new event in VA in May though that we ARE going to if anyone wants to join us.

With any luck, ECU tune should be done by then.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

PowerDubs said:


> There is a new event in VA in May though that we ARE going to if anyone wants to join us.
> 
> With any luck, ECU tune should be done by then.





We are signed up and going to another 1/2 mile airstrip event the first weekend in May if anyone is interested in attending.


www.WannaGoFast.com


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## AdW14 (Jan 24, 2014)

Love that roll racing! Our v8 got to a hundred in a thurd mile....felt solid but slow. We are signed up for april 18. Dtpracewars in our new z06. It ought to fly. We got it monday and took until thursday to get the break in miles on it...then got it up to 160 last night the first rap over 4 grand.. Our rollers are shorter than half mile and we expect 160 plus out of the corvette. What are you expecting to run this time? What mods? A w12 was tempting when our v8 blew...but so many v8's out there just couldnt pass up 1200 bucks for a complete motor....and it got delivered today and looks great. Good luck. I know the fun these events are. People who dont go dont get it. They are expensive though, lol cuz you just see others going faster and wonder how you can. A supercharged v8 p is in our ffuture.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

AdW14 said:


> A supercharged v8 p is in our ffuture.




We looked heavily into the supercharger kit for the Phaeton 6 years ago.

At that time, the W12 were still cost enough that putting the blower on the V8 made some sense if you wanted more power.

W12 are so cheap now though, and even with the supercharger, the V8 will still make about the same power as a stock W12.. it just isn't worth it.


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## pdejong0 (May 16, 2011)

What's the latest on the tune?! Any progress updates available?


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

In progress. I believe the W12 is more involved since it is 2 engines, 2 ECU.. have to sync everything. The longer he has it, the better the results I hope.


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