# Bigger injectors on stock tune?



## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

Was browsing ECS's website, because I'm looking at tunes with bigger injectors and whille reading the description of the 440 cc injectors I read this:

"Customers have had good success combining these injectors with VR6 MAF housings with stock or standard chipped programming."

Any have more info on this? I just got a VR6 maf because I'll need it for the tune I want, but would like to know about running bigger injectors on a stock tune. It makes since that with a larger maf, you can trick a stock ECU into running larger injectors, but would you see much gains and would it be reliable?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

You don't need bigger injectors, you have enough of fuel for the turbo you have. It's just waste of money.
You upgrade injectors when you have bigger turbo so you are running out of fuel, otherwise it's meaningless.


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

To clarify, the tune I want is Uni Stage2+ which requires bigger injectors.... so no matter what I will eventually be getting some sort of bigger injectors. And you dont even know what turbo I have, I've got a k03/04 hybrid, so it's not a stock turbo.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> To clarify, the tune I want is Uni Stage2+ which requires bigger injectors.... so no matter what I will eventually be getting some sort of bigger injectors. And you dont even know what turbo I have, I've got a k03/04 hybrid, so it's not a stock turbo.


run the injectors/hardware the tune is wrote for /thread


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

I'm not asking what size injectors to get, I'm asking for more info about running 440s with a VR6 maf like ECS says people have done with success.


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## manyDUBs (Dec 26, 2002)

440cc injectors do not have the correct spray pattern


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Look at my injector thread


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> I'm not asking what size injectors to get, I'm asking for more info about running 440s with a VR6 maf like ECS says people have done with success.


run the injectors for your tune. If you cant search to see that this has been covered then you do not need to do this. If you would have searched you would have found out that 1) you have no need for needing it unless you are going corn fuel, 2) should run the injectors and maf the tune requires bc 3) you will have to do more searching more logging and more tweaking if you go with your intended route. 4) you forgot completely about timing tables being shifted and 5) just bc ecs says people have had success does not mean you should follow it bc a few people have had success with their timing belt kits also and finally 6) you said you have a VR maf for the *"TUNE"* you want so get the injectors for that TUNE

:what:


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> run the injectors for your tune. If you cant search to see that this has been covered then you do not need to do this. If you would have searched you would have found out that 1) you have no need for needing it unless you are going corn fuel, 2) should run the injectors and maf the tune requires bc 3) you will have to do more searching more logging and more tweaking if you go with your intended route. 4) you forgot completely about timing tables being shifted and 5) just bc ecs says people have had success does not mean you should follow it bc a few people have had success with their timing belt kits also and finally 6) you said you have a VR maf for the *"TUNE"* you want so get the injectors for that TUNE
> 
> :what:


I have searched for people running 440 injectors with 3" mafs to see who has done it and couldn't find any info. So I've been searching for what I'm looking for and haven't been able to find anything. That's why I come here trying to find people who have tried this. Obviously they wouldn't say people have done this if no one has ever tried it. I'm looking for people who have experience with trying this or know someone who has tried this. I dont need the people who cant think outside of what companies tell them they need. 

I got the VR maf for the tune I plan on getting in the future, that doesn't mean I'm locked into that tune, I can go any route I want. I'm just trying to get some more info about people who have run the set up I'm asking about. If you dont have experience with it, then you dont need to answer.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/main/en/files/156_2002-2005_volkswagen_golf_gti_18t_180hp.html

looks like you need a TT225 MAF and TT225 injectors, I see nothing about VR Maf and 440's.

If your not writing your own tune get what the tuner tells you to get, stop trying to be different (like me) and just do what they tell you. Otherwise in 2 weeks you'll be on here pissing and moaning about how the uni tune S2+ tune sucks and we will ask you what hardware you have.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

id=27 used to be so cool


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

ejg3855 said:


> http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/main/en/files/156_2002-2005_volkswagen_golf_gti_18t_180hp.html
> 
> looks like you need a TT225 MAF and TT225 injectors, I see nothing about VR Maf and 440's.
> 
> ...


VR6 maf is basically the same as a TT225 maf, especially since all you use is the housing, not the sensor itself, you use a stock sensor. And I'm also looking at Eurodyne's tuning suite. But that's not the point, why do people not understand this?

My only question is, does anyone have more info about using 440s and a VR6 maf on a stock tune? That's all I'm interested in.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

I understand what you are interested in, buy you need to ask that and tell us what you are trying to do.

1. 440's suck, spray pattern blows.
2. What is your goal ? 
3. What hardware do you have and are currently running?
4. Budget?
5. Future Upgrade path?


We are a smart collective bunch but asking questions without a desired result is stupid. Everyones setups are different and will thus have different results than you.


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## woteg (Apr 7, 2009)

*FV-QR*

its probably a marketing ploy on ecs behalf to try and sell more 440 injectors
http://42draftdesigns.com/categories/products/in_mk1tt_hfis.html


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

ejg3855 said:


> I understand what you are interested in, buy you need to ask that and tell us what you are trying to do.
> 
> 1. 440's suck, spray pattern blows.
> 2. What is your goal ?
> ...


Ideally I'd like to get Eurodyne's software. I've got a g-pop shop k03/04 hybrid, full exhaust, TIP, and I have a 4 bar fpr (was at one point gonna go Revo Stg 2). Obviously I want more power, somewhere between 260-300hp. Budget right now is pretty low, so when I saw ECS saying you can run 440s and a VR6 maf on a stock tune that I could get those, get mild gains for now, then when I can get software get software for the hardware I have. Sounds like 440s aren't that great, so I might as well just stick with UNIs tune and TT225 injectors, or get Eurodynes software and just run TT225 injectors.

But all I'm trying to do is find out more info about people supposedly running 440s and VR6 maf on a stock tune. I want to know how well it runs and what sort of gains are being made with such a set up. Apparently ECS is making this up, which doesn't surprise me, but it seems like it would be possible and would make sense. The larger maf housing would all more air to come in while it reads the same reading, so you could run bigger injectors to match the increased air coming in. More air and more fuel equal more power. I know I'm probably missing something. Just trying to see if I can get more info on ECS's claims.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

the TT225 maf and VR6 maf are close.
the differnce is;
the TT225 maf is 3" on both sides.
the VR6 maf is 3" in and 2.75 out.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> the TT225 maf and VR6 maf are close.
> the differnce is;
> the TT225 maf is 3" on both sides.
> the VR6 maf is 3" in and 2.75 out.


you have no idea how different that is


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> VR6 maf is basically the same as a TT225 maf, especially since all you use is the housing, not the sensor itself, you use a stock sensor. And I'm also looking at Eurodyne's tuning suite. But that's not the point, why do people not understand this?
> 
> My only question is, does anyone have more info about using 440s and a VR6 maf on a stock tune? That's all I'm interested in.


No a TT maf, a 24V vr maf and an 12v VR maf are not all the same... then there are other mafs you can use so you need to specify which VR maf you have bc i used the 12v for my set up and it was no way the same as a reg or TT maf

and for 



ejg3855 said:


> I understand what you are interested in, buy you need to ask that and tell us what you are trying to do.
> 
> 1. 440's suck, spray pattern blows.
> 2. What is your goal ?
> ...


my emphasis on search and why i was implying that 380s (TT Inj) are better for the solution when used at 4bar.



mescaline said:


> you have no idea how different that is


:thumbup:



ejg3855 said:


> http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/main/en/files/156_2002-2005_volkswagen_golf_gti_18t_180hp.html
> 
> looks like you need a TT225 MAF and TT225 injectors, I see nothing about VR Maf and 440's.
> 
> ...






sdavis872 said:


> I have searched for people running 440 injectors with 3" mafs to see who has done it and couldn't find any info. So I've been searching for what I'm looking for and haven't been able to find anything. That's why I come here trying to find people who have tried this. Obviously they wouldn't say people have done this if no one has ever tried it. I'm looking for people who have experience with trying this or know someone who has tried this. I dont need the people who cant think outside of what companies tell them they need.
> 
> I got the VR maf for the tune I plan on getting in the future, that doesn't mean I'm locked into that tune, I can go any route I want. I'm just trying to get some more info about people who have run the set up I'm asking about. If you dont have experience with it, then you dont need to answer.


Also for you taking a stab at me bc i dont think out of the box

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...line-18-Gurus-Come-all.&p=48765778&viewfull=1










I know what i am talking about and i know what it entails... You didnt search.


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> the TT225 maf and VR6 maf are close.
> the differnce is;
> the TT225 maf is 3" on both sides.
> the VR6 maf is 3" in and 2.75 out.


ID is 2.75" on both ends, which is the same as a TT maf, idk where you're getting your numbers but they're wrong. The housing dimensions are the same. Anyone else want to explain the difference between the two? Only thing I've come across is the TT housing has screens on both sides, VR6 one only has it on the inlet side.

And before I hear "they ask for a TT housing, use a TT housing" I'll tell you now I contacted them and they said a VR6 housing will work because they're essentially the same.

I'm sure you guys are all smart, but telling me to search for something I've already searched for and cant find info about is pointless. *All I want to know is more info about 440s with a VR6 maf on a stock tune.* If you're telling me 440s suck, or to stick the the injectors required for my tune, then that's not answering my question.


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## north (Sep 22, 2010)

The 440 injector spray pattern is fine with the new injectors. They are not the same green tops that used to have a lot of issues. I would match your injector size to the tune, generally recommendations are there for a reason  For example, I will be running 440's and a TT225 MAF with my frankenturbo unitronic tune. And I do not believe that running bigger injectors with a stock tune or even a stage 1 tune will yield any different results when upgrading the MAF. 

IMO since a tune is wrote to only add "X" fuel at different points, rather it is load scaling or rpm based, running a bigger maf will not force the ecu to add more fuel. It may trip a code however, but generally speaking a MAF sensor has different flow ratings. One sensor will max out at "Y" flow where another larger sensor can flow more air and will max out at "Z". So unless you can surpass the max flow of the initial MAF, it will not add any more fuel as it will not be seeing any more airflow.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

:facepalm: dont run bigger injectors on a stock tune


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

north said:


> The 440 injector spray pattern is fine with the new injectors. They are not the same green tops that used to have a lot of issues. I would match your injector size to the tune, generally recommendations are there for a reason  For example, I will be running 440's and a TT225 MAF with my frankenturbo unitronic tune. And I do not believe that running bigger injectors with a stock tune or even a stage 1 tune will yield any different results when upgrading the MAF.
> 
> IMO since a tune is wrote to only add "X" fuel at different points, rather it is load scaling or rpm based, running a bigger maf will not force the ecu to add more fuel. It may trip a code however, but generally speaking a MAF sensor has different flow ratings. One sensor will max out at "Y" flow where another larger sensor can flow more air and will max out at "Z". So unless you can surpass the max flow of the initial MAF, it will not add any more fuel as it will not be seeing any more airflow.


You getting the 440 tune from Uni or which tune are you getting for the Frankenturbo?

And the only reason I think this whole thing would work is not that the bigger maf will force the ecu to dump more fuel, but that a larger maf will have more air moving through it at the same maf reading (stock sensor, just larger housing) so the sensor is reading the same flow, but really there's more going through. Since you have more air going in, you could (in theory) bump up the injector size so match the increased air. It's not that the ECU id doing anything, in fact, the ECU would "see" normal air flow readings and fire off the injectors like normal, but really there's more air going in and firing off more fuel each time.


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## north (Sep 22, 2010)

Yes, I will be getting the 440 tune from uni.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> You getting the 440 tune from Uni or which tune are you getting for the Frankenturbo?
> 
> And the only reason I think this whole thing would work is not that the bigger maf will force the ecu to dump more fuel, but that a larger maf will have more air moving through it at the same maf reading (stock sensor, just larger housing) so the sensor is reading the same flow, but really there's more going through. Since you have more air going in, you could (in theory) bump up the injector size so match the increased air. It's not that the ECU id doing anything, in fact, the ECU would "see" normal air flow readings and fire off the injectors like normal, but really there's more air going in and firing off more fuel each time.


yes a larger maf will scale the injectors slightly, you can also if you want more fuel, add a 4bar or larger injector and pull fuel, but it also (MAF) throws off the timing table thus is my argument, *YOU* the enduser and only adjust the entire board with adaption, your tuner would have to write the code to adjust values per rpm plot, THUS is why we are telling you to run the injectors/maf the tune is wrote for. It will run 10x better trust me.

and yes there is different size mafs for the TT225, 12v VR and 24v VR


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> and yes there is different size mafs for the TT225, 12v VR and 24v VR


Then why does Uni say you can use either a TT225 or a VR6 housing, without specifying which VR6 maf... Just look at any of the BT tunes, they all say "VR6 or TT225 maf housing"

I know a TT225 housing has an ID of 2.75", and I know the VR6 maf I have has a 2.75" ID, so idk how that's different...


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

the ID on the outlet side is different.

I have a tt 225 in my garage and a VR maf off my gti they are different


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

btw in your quest for 440s and a maf you forgot a fuel pump


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

I am trying to find GT-ER thread (way before your time) where he did a write up on all three mafs including the s4 maf which is 3" ID


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## limet (Jan 8, 2009)

So your doing all this for about 260-300hp and your on a tight budget so your trying to work around the most important thing you could look out for? You need a tune to correct air/fuel ratios, if you don't your ****ed. Your putting on bigger injectors which will add more fuel at the point where it used to be even, so your putting on a larger MAF which will add more air telling the ecu to add more fuel. Your gonna blow your motor. And a not stock turbo? Really, a ko3/ ko4 hybrid? You couldn't just get the whole ko4? A ko4 is a stock turbo anyways, just not off the mk4. You may be looking for info on running these few little "upgrades" without a tune, but nobody is going to give you info on that because it's dumb as ****. Listen to what all the experienced people are telling you. Go with what your tune says to get. And if your tuning it yourself, start with making a base tune before you go with these upgrades. Or at least have a tune ready?

I don't needz tune with 300 shot NOS, boom.


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> the ID on the outlet side is different.
> 
> I have a tt 225 in my garage and a VR maf off my gti they are different


Want to give measurements? Apparently Uni thinks they're the same.


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## limet (Jan 8, 2009)

Just go with the a8 MAF, I think it's like 4" ? That's will be perfect for your big turbo


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

limet said:


> So your doing all this for about 260-300hp and your on a tight budget so your trying to work around the most important thing you could look out for? You need a tune to correct air/fuel ratios, if you don't your ****ed. Your putting on bigger injectors which will add more fuel at the point where it used to be even, so your putting on a larger MAF which will add more air telling the ecu to add more fuel. Your gonna blow your motor. And a not stock turbo? Really, a ko3/ ko4 hybrid? You couldn't just get the whole ko4? A ko4 is a stock turbo anyways, just not off the mk4. You may be looking for info on running these few little "upgrades" without a tune, but nobody is going to give you info on that because it's dumb as ****. Listen to what all the experienced people are telling you. Go with what your tune says to get. And if your tuning it yourself, start with making a base tune before you go with these upgrades. Or at least have a tune ready?
> 
> I don't needz tune with 300 shot NOS, boom.


:laugh::laugh:











sdavis872 said:


> Want to give measurements? Apparently Uni thinks they're the same.


sure I will whip it out later just for you :snowcool:



limet said:


> Just go with the a8 MAF, I think it's like 4" ? That's will be perfect for your big turbo


W12T 

My ko3s (hybrid) :laugh: [ko3+k04=ko3s] probably made more power and torque than his "hybrid".


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

limet said:


> So your doing all this for about 260-300hp and your on a tight budget so your trying to work around the most important thing you could look out for? You need a tune to correct air/fuel ratios, if you don't your ****ed. Your putting on bigger injectors which will add more fuel at the point where it used to be even, so your putting on a larger MAF which will add more air telling the ecu to add more fuel. Your gonna blow your motor. And a not stock turbo? Really, a ko3/ ko4 hybrid? You couldn't just get the whole ko4? A ko4 is a stock turbo anyways, just not off the mk4. You may be looking for info on running these few little "upgrades" without a tune, but nobody is going to give you info on that because it's dumb as ****. Listen to what all the experienced people are telling you. Go with what your tune says to get. And if your tuning it yourself, start with making a base tune before you go with these upgrades. Or at least have a tune ready?
> 
> I don't needz tune with 300 shot NOS, boom.


G-pop shop k03/04 hybrid is basically a k04-02x in a k03 housing. So its kind of like a bolt on tt225 turbo. Can be compared to a Frakenturbo, but without needing all the other hardware. And once again, a bigger MAF wouldn't tell the ECU to add more fuel, it'll have more air at the stock reading, so go bigger injectors to meet the more air.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> And once again, a bigger MAF wouldn't tell the ECU to add more fuel, it'll have more air at the stock reading, so go bigger injectors to meet the more air.


so yes it requests more fuel but by going bigger inj you compensated for it. no different then you going into LW and adding +15% fuel or what have you.


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> so yes it requests more fuel but by going bigger inj you compensated for it. no different then you going into LW and adding +15% fuel or what have you.


Ok... So are you implying that this is something that can be done?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

:facepalm:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2901711-My-Stock-turbo-tuning-guide

jesus man told you you have not searched or done research

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1618056

and this will work just as good doesnt have to be giac software

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2982006

:banghead:


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> :facepalm:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2901711-My-Stock-turbo-tuning-guide
> 
> ...


Omg, of course I didn't search for that because that has nothing to do with what I'm asking! :facepalm:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

you didnt read the FAQ


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

I see nothing about 440s and a VR6 MAF on a stock tune.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

theswoleguy said:


> :facepalm:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2901711-My-Stock-turbo-tuning-guide
> 
> ...



all three of these are in the faq which will help you with your solution. I hope you have vagcom & LW or CC.


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> all three of these are in the faq which will help you with your solution. I hope you have vagcom & LW or CC.


I know, but they don't address my question... And yes I have VAGCOM and LW along with some others.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

PUT IN THE MAF
PUT IN THE INJECTORS
*INSTALL FUEL PUMP* 
and LOG!

ADJUST W/ LW

LOG AGAIN

REPEAT


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

sdavis872 said:


> ID is 2.75" on both ends, which is the same as a TT maf, idk where you're getting your numbers but they're wrong.


negative brovolone.
your wrong.
i hav a VR maf sitting on my TV stand right now.
d!ldo baggins sold it to me as a TT225 MAF.

i'lll post pics if you want.


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> negative brovolone.
> your wrong.
> i hav a VR maf sitting on my TV stand right now.
> d!ldo baggins sold it to me as a TT225 MAF.
> ...


Go ahead, my VR6 MAF is 2.75" on both ends so I'm looking forward to seeing this.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

I tried running 380's and a VR MAF on revo stg2 for a while. It ran...like chit. After logging and tweaking and logging and tweaking, I went back to stock and made more power (this was all on a k04-001 and meth)


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

Here, since no one else has posted to prove me wrong, I'll just post my VR6 housing so you can all see how the inlet and outlet are the same diameter.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

i thought i bought a TT225 MAF, but the Stealership told me this was a VR6 MAF.

part# 071 906 461B


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

top is the OUTLET and bottom is INLET


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> top is the OUTLET and bottom is INLET


You're not measuring the true ID in the bottom picture. :facepalm:
You see how there's the screen? You're measuring the OD of the screen, measure the ID of the screen and it's 2.75". It's the same on both ends. The housing itself is about 3" ID on the one side, but that's so the screen can fit in there and have an ID of 2.75".


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

You are measuring the part in red, but air only flows through the part that's gold.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

limet said:


> so your putting on a larger MAF which will add more air telling the ecu to add more fuel.


bigger maf housing would mean less fuel.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

sdavis872 said:


> You are measuring the part in red, but air only flows through the part that's gold.


incorrect. the amount that flows through is not governed by that small change, its governed by the inside diameter of the housing (Bernoulli's principle).

:beer:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

TBT-Syncro said:


> incorrect. the amount that flows through is not governed by that small change, its governed by the inside diameter of the housing (Bernoulli's principle).
> 
> :beer:


:laugh: win!


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

:banghead::banghead::banghead:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn::wave::wave::wave:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

TBT-Syncro said:


> incorrect. the amount that flows through is not governed by that small change, its governed by the inside diameter of the housing (Bernoulli's principle).
> 
> :beer:


OP since you have an inability to search, thought i would help you out.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bernoulli's+principle


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

TBT-Syncro said:


> incorrect. the amount that flows through is not governed by that small change, its governed by the inside diameter of the housing (Bernoulli's principle).
> 
> :beer:


And the inside of the housing is 2.75" Omg, I thought you guys would be helpful and knowledgable. Instead you've been some of the most ignorant people I've ever dealt with. Use your eyes and look at how the housing is built. The inside diameter of the screen is the inside diameter of the housing. The screen is recessed into the housing.










The VR6 housing and the TT housing have widely been said to be used in place of each other with certain tunes for years. I doubt a company as large as Unitronics would say they are interchangeable if they aren't the same dimensions.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-225-housing&highlight=maf+housing+difference

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4350560-TT225-MAF-to-VR6-airbox&highlight=tt225+vr6

Want me to search some more for you? I know it's hard for you to fathom searching for USEFUL information that applies to the topic.

P.S. I know how Bernoulli's principle works, I'm a Physics major for crying out loud. Bernoulli's principle would be more applicable if the diameter of where the air flows actually changed, but it doesn't, so what's it matter?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> And the inside of the housing is 2.75" Omg, I thought you guys would be helpful and knowledgable. Instead you've been some of the most ignorant people I've ever dealt with. Use your eyes and look at how the housing is built. The inside diameter of the screen is the inside diameter of the housing. The screen is recessed into the housing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yay finally he does his own research and not having to be spoon fed, my purpose and sole intent from day one of replying in this post


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> yay finally he does his own research and not having to be spoon fed, my purpose and sole intent from day one of replying in this post


When you know what you're talking about then you're comments will matter. I didn't have to search for this stuff for my benefit, I already knew this. I had to search in order to spoon feed you. You've not contributed one bit of helpful information, in fact, you've preached the wrong info over and over again. You couldn't even provide the correct information when you have the parts in your own hands. I appreciate the time you've wasted misleading people here, but once again I will say, if you are not answering my question, then shut up and get out. And even worse than posting without helping with the topic, is posting incorrect information repeatedly. Do us all a favor and think before you post.

*Does any know about people swapping in VR6 mafs and 440cc injectors for gains on tunes requiring stock maf and injectors? I'm asking because ECS is advertising that it's possible.* If you dont know about doing this specifically, then that's fine, I appreciate your time reading this. And before saying "440s spray patter sucks" if you read the FAQs you will know they changed the spray pattern a while ago.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

yes i ****ing do you ****ing moron i have been down the road with a vr maf and 380 cc inj at 4bar which are 440s you moron! i linked you in an early post in this thead now go eat a dick

here again bc this is where i did it with 630s after doing it with 380s



theswoleguy said:


> Also for you taking a stab at me bc i dont think out of the box
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...line-18-Gurus-Come-all.&p=48765778&viewfull=1
> 
> I know what i am talking about and i know what it entails... You didnt search.


it all ****ing comes down to YOU having to install it and log and tweak via vagcom, it is a ****ty route to go and you are better off doing software

there is also a difference between a 12v vr maf and 24v vr maf you never specified

for the record there are bosche 440s and genesis 440s and the spray patterns are different

swapping inj and maf for a tune wrote for stock inj and stock maf is not the correct way to go about doing things, get your software and update it the correct way for your hardware. it will not run 100% like it is suppose to do.


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> yes i ****ing do you ****ing moron i have been down the road with a vr maf and 380 cc inj at 4bar which are 440s you moron! i linked you in an early post in this thead now go eat a dick
> 
> here again bc this is where i did it with 630s after doing it with 380s


Then you should have known a VR6 housing=TT225 housing if know all about this. I asked a specific question in my original post, and you dont know about it so that's fine, just stop cluttering up this thread with off topic and/or incorrect info.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> Then you should have known a VR6 housing=TT225 housing if know all about this. I asked a specific question in my original post, and you dont know about it so that's fine, just stop cluttering up this thread with off topic and/or incorrect info.





sdavis872 said:


> Was browsing ECS's website, because I'm looking at tunes with bigger injectors and whille reading the description of the 440 cc injectors I read this:
> 
> "Customers have had good success combining these injectors with VR6 MAF housings with stock or standard chipped programming."
> 
> Any have more info on this? I just got a VR6 maf because I'll need it for the tune I want, but would like to know about running bigger injectors on a stock tune. It makes since that with a larger maf, you can trick a stock ECU into running larger injectors, but would you see much gains and would it be reliable?


no you did not state either a 12v or 24v vr6 maf housing.

in the end get the software and the required hardware it runs better than a bandaid fix


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> there is also a difference between a 12v vr maf and 24v vr maf you never specified



They have the same part number, want to explain how two parts with the same part number are different from each other?opcorn:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> They have the same part number, want to explain how two parts with the same part number are different from each other?opcorn:



12v
Mfg Part#02190646*2A*
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_III--VR6_12v/Engine/Intake/Air_Mass_Sensor/ES1891967/

24v
07190646*1BX*
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--VR6_24v/Engine/Intake/Air_Mass_Sensor/ES260143/

1.8T
906461L

letters designate part revision, #'s do not


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> 24v
> 07190646*1BX*
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--VR6_24v/Engine/Intake/Air_Mass_Sensor/ES260143/


"Fits both 24v(BDF) & 12v(AFP) VR6 engines"
From your link

It's not a 12v vs 24v difference, it's a mkIII vs mkIV difference. And why would I be using mkIII parts on a mkIV?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

yes depending engine code

bc you are looking for a certian diameter. there are plenty of us that ran 12v vr mafs


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> yes depending engine code
> 
> bc you are looking for a certian diameter. there are plenty of us that ran 12v vr mafs


It doesn't matter if it's a 12v or 24v, it matters if it's a mkIII or a mkIV. Look at mkIV 12v MAFs, all the same part# as the mkIV 24v MAFs. I never said anything about using mkIII MAFs, and since this is the 1.8t forum, why would I be talking about a platform that this engine never came in without stating that first?


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

maybe for the same reason you are trying to run a maf and injector combination a tune isnt wrote for bc we have all had success running parts from different engines, models and makes...

it is way to late in the 1.8t game to reinvent the wheel bro. any tuner now a days can spec a tune for your hardware. if you want to run a 4" maf they can.

look if you want to bandaid it till you get the software or you are peggin mafs its easy.

anyway if you want to go this route it is really easy all dick aside.

install maf, install inj, install a fuel pump (trust me the stock pump doesnt flow that much for those-TT pump does stock MKIV pump does not)

break out lw, set timing to -6 for now, bigger maf adds timing, leave fuel alone.

go log with vag com 020 and 02 i think, if no correction (as long as it is less than 6 you are fine) if you are still at 0,0,0,0 then add some of that timing back. IIRC from when i did the 380s @ 4 bar it was roughly -4 on aprs 93 file when the correction started jumping around.

after that go in to adaption under vag somewhere like 31 or 32 read the idle and driving adaption

you want them within plus/minus 10%, go back to LW and adjust fueling there, repeat.

before any of this i would reset the ecu and do a TBA

also you will need the hand of God or a heat gun to loosen the silicone for the TIP to eat a vr maf as it is bigger or the TT225 TIP

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1618056

adaption 10 is the fueling you will scale
Adaption 09 is timing adj
Adaption 06 i turned up a just slightly to adapt faster, after every change i would reset the ecu, tba as that when it adapts the best


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm going to ignore all the other crap in the thread and just post this:

I'm running Bosch 440cc Green Giants (not green tops) and a TT225 MAF with the TT225 sensor. I was specifically told by Malone (who is tuning my car) not to install my maf or injectors until I had the tune.

So I will say no, you should not do it. If you really feel like dicking with your car like that you can go the route that was already posted, install the maf/injectors, log and tweak with LW. I wouldn't recommend it though. It's a bad idea to be giving your ECU incorrect info then trying to blindly compensate for it.


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## sdavis872 (Aug 20, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> maybe for the same reason you are trying to run a maf and injector combination a tune isnt wrote for bc we have all had success running parts from different engines, models and makes...
> 
> it is way to late in the 1.8t game to reinvent the wheel bro. any tuner now a days can spec a tune for your hardware. if you want to run a 4" maf they can.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I plan on getting a 2.5"-3" silicone reducer, there's no way a 3" maf is fitting in a 2.5" silicone pipe. And you say the stock fuel pump wont keep up, is that with 440s or 380s at 4 bar or both? I was looking briefly yesterday for more info on when I would need to upgrade the fuel pump but couldn't find a definite answer.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Camride said:


> I'm going to ignore all the other crap in the thread and just post this:
> 
> I'm running Bosch 440cc Green Giants (not green tops) and a TT225 MAF with the TT225 sensor. I was specifically told by Malone (who is tuning my car) not to install my maf or injectors until I had the tune.
> 
> So I will say no, you should not do it. If you really feel like dicking with your car like that you can go the route that was already posted, install the maf/injectors, log and tweak with LW. I wouldn't recommend it though. It's a bad idea to be giving your ECU incorrect info then trying to blindly compensate for it.


Nothing is blind when you live data log, he will be fine as long as he has a good passenger. The car is wideband so.fuel isn't his big concern as timing is.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

sdavis872 said:


> Thanks, I plan on getting a 2.5"-3" silicone reducer, there's no way a 3" maf is fitting in a 2.5" silicone pipe. And you say the stock fuel pump wont keep up, is that with 440s or 380s at 4 bar or both? I was looking briefly yesterday for more info on when I would need to upgrade the fuel pump but couldn't find a definite answer.


I did with mine but its a real pita without a heat gun and patience .

380s at 4bar =~440 so both. I can't remember the exact flow, there is a thread on it somehwere. I know apr siii kit specs a pump and I think that uses 380 or 440s.

Get a walbro inline for cheap. Hell might have one I can sell you since not.doing me any good sitting.


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