# k04 hp range I search my ass off. =)



## YellowG60Driver (May 9, 2003)

What would I have to do to reach 250-270 whp. What's the most power that's been put down out of the K04 on a stock block? Anyway to get above the 230whp mark? Basically what can I do with the K04 to reach some good numbers? Not just a spike but solid across the board.


_Modified by YellowG60Driver at 11:49 PM 6-18-2008_


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: k04 hp range I search my ass off. =) (YellowG60Driver)*

K04-001 and all the bolt-ons you're looking at around 220+whp
K04-02x and all the bolt-ons you're looking at around 240+whp


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## Kraut1 (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: k04 hp range I search my ass off. =) (VWGolfA4)*

K04-001 and all the bolt-ons you're looking at around 220+whp <<< (250 - 255 CHP) Brand new for $1100 with manifold not worth the extra 20HP / 25TQ unless your replacing an old worn out k03 and not wanting that much of an upgrade.
K04-02x and all the bolt-ons you're looking at around 240+whp <<< (280 - 285 CHP) used parts + sourcing a few parts $1100 not a bad upgrade for an extra 40 WHP / 50 TQ on pump gas.
Then there is always water/meth injection and you can pick up a snow performance stage one kit for around $275 new.


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## adema69 (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: k04 hp range I search my ass off. =) (Kraut1)*

k04-1 242whp


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

300WHP. FL dyno.
Once the search is up look up "k04" and type my name in "creator." You'll find a quote from borg warner telling you it's not a worthwhile upgrade.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: k04 hp range I search my ass off. =) (YellowG60Driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YellowG60Driver* »_What would I have to do to reach 250-270 whp. What's the most power that's been put down out of the K04 on a stock block? Anyway to get above the 230whp mark? Basically what can I do with the K04 to reach some good numbers? Not just a spike but solid across the board.

_Modified by YellowG60Driver at 11:49 PM 6-18-2008_

Gt28rs has your name all over it. 250-270 wheel is everything that the k04 has. There is no point in working the turbo that hard when you get a better turbo that will give you more in the future should you need or what it.


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: k04 hp range I search my ass off. =) (velocity196)*


_Quote, originally posted by *velocity196* »_
Gt28rs has your name all over it. 250-270 wheel is everything that the k04 has. There is no point in working the turbo that hard when you get a better turbo that will give you more in the future should you need or what it. 

or T3S60


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

Here's that post I referred to above:
The expected math is that you'll gain +10WHP.
"thank you for your interest in our products.
First of all, we don't produce any turbo that we call K03S. But I hope I can
answer your questions with the following explanations.
All the following turbos have the same installation dimensions and
thermodynamical performance. The differences are only in the actuator that
opens the turbine bypass valve:
K03-011 (5303 988 0011) 150 hp, 65 N actuator
K03-026 180 hp, 85 N actuator
K03-035 180 hp, 85 N actuator
K03-044 150 hp, 65 N actuator
K03-045 156 hp (Ibiza Cupra), 85 N actuator with 2 ports
K03-049 150 hp (Sharan/Alhambra), 65 N actuator
The 180 hp versions have an actuator with a higher opening force due to the
higher exhaust gas pressure (which is a consequence of the higher boost
pressure). Otherwise the valve would be pushed open by the exhaust gas
pressure.
The following turbos are a further development (since 2000) and have an
improved and slightly larger compressor while using the same turbine (still
with the same installation dimensions):
K03-052 180 hp, 85 N actuator
K03-053 150 hp, 85 N actuator
K03-058 150 hp/180 hp, 85 N actuator
Consequentially, putting a 180 hp turbo on a 150 hp engine will not bring
about any change in performance, but putting on a K03-052/053/058 instead of
the older versions will bring a slight improvement in engine efficiency.
Additionally, with re-mapping the ECU you can achieve about 215 hp without
danger of overspeeding the turbo. With the older turbos, 195 hp is the
limit.
With the K04 that's also commonly used (5304 950 0001) the power output
should not be more than 220 hp. *That means, changing a K03-052/053/058
against a K04 does not make a lot of sense.*
I hope that these details answer your questions. If you need more info, one
of our service distributors will be glad to help you. Their addresses are on
our website http://www.turbodriven.com.
Mit freundlichen GrÃƒÂ¼ÃƒÅ¸en/Best regards,
BorgWarner Turbo Systems GMBH"


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## 415GTI337 (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*

I respect everyone's opinions on these forum, but for the guys out there looking for a daily driver with some more punch over a chipped k03 the k04-001 is fine, you are going to retain your stock like drive-ability. the TQ figures between the k04-02x and the 001 are pretty much identical, the hp is where the 001 falls short... I know many people hate on the 001 but in reality the power curve is better over k03s ( remember its what's under the curve that counts) it does still fall off like a small turbo would but it holds more boost to red line... If you are a big HP junkie and don't mind going to non-oem product and all the hick up's that come along with a highly modified car go BT hands down. 
Also the programs that require the larger injectors and MAF are going to be more agressive than say APR's that just requires a 4bar, so I guess you really just need to figure out what fits your needs best, for me its the 001 , because its a good increase in TQ and moderate HP gains and I can smog it in CA ( meaning it will pass visual with stock like appearence) good luck in your quest for more power







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (415GTI337)*

K04 is a waste of money. I bet 90% of people want more after getting a k04. If you want less than 300 wheel get the 28rs eliminator for cheap or a full kit if you got the extra funds. In my opinion, I would actually say get the 3071 cuz you can make great power with it and you don't have to rev the piss outta it. Even with the k04 you'll need software to get the most outta it so at a min. get the 28rs. Really it's better to get full kit than the eliminator if you think you might want more than 300 down the road. With the full kit you can reuse everything and just buy a bigger turbo.


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The KO4's power range is from "not enough" WHP to "I wish I bought a larger turbo" WHP.
Neither of which is 270 WHP.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (IzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IzVW* »_The KO4's power range is from "not enough" WHP to "I wish I bought a larger turbo" WHP.
Neither of which is 270 WHP.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







well said
EDIT: your not that far from me let me know if you need help with anything. im no pro but ive dont alot myself.


_Modified by velocity196 at 12:34 PM 1-18-2009_


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## fenix420 (Jun 10, 2006)

take it from someone who made the mistake of actually getting a ko4....it blows.. totally not worth it. too much work for minimal gains that you won't really notice anyway. go bt to start with... super 60 at minimum. if you don't...you'll regret it.. call arnold at pagparts and he'll hook you up with everything you need to have a fun car with stock driveability. DO NOT GO ko4!!!!lol


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## 415GTI337 (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (fenix420)*

This topic can go on and on like so many others have.... either way >250 whp makes zero sense in a fwd car especially w/o an LSD if its gonna spool quick, and if you have to wait for boost till 3.5 or 4 grand it hinders you in traffic situations.... either way you slice it you must compromise, if you are craving more than that you picked the wrong car to modify... RWD or AWD would be your best bet. Again, for some people on the forums they love OEM plus type mods, others don't care and go for it all which is totally cool







Hence I did notice the K04 ( mainly in TQ and it pulling harder closer to redline) it's pretty much like running a 100 oct file with all bolt on's on 91 oct which is cool to me, again every person has different wants and needs from their car and for me I was fine with the "mild" upgrade.


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## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: (415GTI337)*

Ok search my old name double0vr6. I made 253whp and 307wtq on a ko4-001 with the highflow mani and other blot ons. I think my pic of my dyno is still posted up. This was my 1st turbo upgrade in my gli. she ran a best of [email protected] on st tires and spear tire out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fenix420 (Jun 10, 2006)

*Re: (Blu--Pearl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blu--Pearl* »_Ok search my old name double0vr6. I made 253whp and 307wtq on a ko4-001 with the highflow mani and other blot ons. I think my pic of my dyno is still posted up. This was my 1st turbo upgrade in my gli. she ran a best of [email protected] on st tires and spear tire out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

you florida guys crack me up. if you were putting down 253 whp and ran a 13.9....wow...you have alot of learning to do. i ran a 14.0 with 207whp...and the worst 60' time ever. even if you happened to make that much power...it was a spike and in no way could a ko4-001 safely flow that much...come on now


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (fenix420)*

there was a guy who made mid 11's with the ko4-015 but chances of doing that are slim he also did every bolt on and pushed the setup to extremes. the ko4-023 seems to be the best bet noones really pushed these setups too hard and laty guys are laying down 250-260whp with 17psi i think with water/meth and 25psi 300whp can be had i dont understand why noone has pushed for it yet.


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (Budsdubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Budsdubbin* »_there was a guy who made mid 11's with the ko4-015 but chances of doing that are slim he also did every bolt on and pushed the setup to extremes. the ko4-023 seems to be the best bet noones really pushed these setups too hard and laty guys are laying down 250-260whp with 17psi i think with water/meth and 25psi 300whp can be had i dont understand why noone has pushed for it yet.

Everybody that pushes them end up going BT, then a few months later their rods snap and they wonder why.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*

there are two guys on here with rods done. Why not see what the setups can do?


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (415GTI337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *415GTI337* »_This topic can go on and on like so many others have.... either way >250 whp makes zero sense in a fwd car especially w/o an LSD if its gonna spool quick 

I have 20 PSI @ 3200 RPM's and ~ 320 WHP with my GT28RS.
Ask anyone who's been in my car how PERFECT the setup is, plenty of traction and plenty of power.
Stop trying to justify an expensive KO4 upgrade that gains the OP nothing in terms of power. Those 250whp FL dyno's are one out of thousands, it's like getting the golden ticket and going to the chocolate factory. For every Charlie there are 2500 kids crying their eyes out because they didn't get what they wanted.
FWD isn't great for power but to say "over 250 is wasted" is not true. I'd agree with that if you said 400 whp or something but even 350 is FINE if you do things right and know how to drive. Hell of a lot more traction than a KO4 wheel spinner setup.


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## adema69 (Jun 4, 2006)

gt28rs is a waste of money too what the heck is 280 hp from a supposedly big turbo? Thats a waste of money as well if you want real numbers go 2871 or 3071. Those eliminator kits are poop! i bet i can make that with my k04 all i need is some meth injection and ill be right up there for a turbo kit that i put together for 2000$


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: (adema69)*

Just to throw it out there and help anyone researching the K04-001. This is a rough estimate of what it would cost. This is what I priced the K04-001 out with an upgrade to my GIAC software.
MAF with TT Sensor - $150-200
Tyrolsport SMIC - $750
Forge Turbo Inlet Pipe - $165
K04, Manifold, Injectors, & Install Kits - $1,400
GIAC K04-001 Software - $150
Labor - 5 Hours? - $500
Total - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - $3,115
The SMIC, TIP, and Exhaust Manifold are not required. I went with Seiman Injectors over used TTs or Bosch or Genesis. Im sure I will need a SMIC after the K04 and I was told the TIP is good to get because the stock one colapses more often.
This is give an idea of what this kit will cost. I know this will start a huge fight but I wanted to give some basis for people to know what things cost. Nothing has been stated in this thread about price.


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (adema69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adema69* »_gt28rs is a waste of money too what the heck is 280 hp from a supposedly big turbo? Thats a waste of money as well if you want real numbers go 2871 or 3071. Those eliminator kits are poop! i bet i can make that with my k04 all i need is some meth injection and ill be right up there for a turbo kit that i put together for 2000$ 

He makes between 300 and 320whp on pump. Do that with a k04.


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (adema69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adema69* »_gt28rs is a waste of money too what the heck is 280 hp from a supposedly big turbo? Thats a waste of money as well if you want real numbers go 2871 or 3071. Those eliminator kits are poop! i bet i can make that with my k04 all i need is some meth injection and ill be right up there for a turbo kit that i put together for 2000$ 

Guess you missed where I make 325 whp. With a proper setup you can do that. But you are picking on the wrong turbo anyway, the goal here is to keep the OP away from wasting money on a KO4 setup.


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## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (adema69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adema69* »_gt28rs is a waste of money too what the heck is 280 hp from a supposedly big turbo? Thats a waste of money as well if you want real numbers go 2871 or 3071. Those eliminator kits are poop! i bet i can make that with my k04 all i need is some meth injection and ill be right up there for a turbo kit that i put together for 2000$ 

QFT.
Don't go on a pointless rant because you pissed away your money on a useless ko4








There isn't much difference in "real numbers" between a 28rs and a 2871r


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (adema69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adema69* »_gt28rs is a waste of money too what the heck is 280 hp from a supposedly big turbo? Thats a waste of money as well if you want real numbers go 2871 or 3071. Those eliminator kits are poop! i bet i can make that with my k04 all i need is some meth injection and ill be right up there for a turbo kit that i put together for 2000$ 

I agree the 3071 is a great starting point right in the mid. of good power and good spool. However the OP asked for less than 300 wheel. Even tho it's not the best the eliminator is cheap and will give him what he wants. Keep in mind OP you will have to buy an entire kit if you want more later.


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## 1.8tNdahaus (Jan 14, 2008)

*Re: (velocity196)*

i agree with all who said ko4 doesnt proide enough...but then again you always want more than what you have. But i have seen in the mazda spped 3 forums they are boring the turbo and clipping the fins and adding about 30whp. I will look for the dynos


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (1.8tNdahaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8tNdahaus* »_i agree with all who said ko4 doesnt proide enough...but then again you always want more than what you have. But i have seen in the mazda spped 3 forums they are boring the turbo and clipping the fins and adding about 30whp. I will look for the dynos

LOL ya thanks a great idea. Let's screw around with something that's balanced and spins 20 or 30,000 rpms instead of getting better equipment.


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## 1.8tNdahaus (Jan 14, 2008)

*Re: (velocity196)*

not saying I'd do it but i read about it. And it is garunteed and done by an accredited shop. so there ya go pal


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Khaos-* »_
Everybody that pushes them end up going BT, then a few months later their rods snap and they wonder why. 

its statements like this that drive me crazy, EVERYBODY!!!!! lol
my motor is coming out this weekend, and I willl be putting in ARP studs with IE rods. Then comes WMI, and maybe IC spray. Personally, I love my ko4-02x. All the BT guys will shun it because they want to feel good about what they bought. and there WILL be people who go ko4 and want more, its all human nature, but when it comes down to it we all dont desire the same things and some of us have smaller expectations, its not all about making the #'s. and my car spun the tires at the top of third the other night while I was merging, for going around town or busting through corners, the 02x is a good, NOTICABLE upgrade.
to me its more about track results than power, guys have ran 12's on ko3s, and some BT guys cant even get those times







so if you can get 12's out a daily driving ko4 car, awesome, anything quicker than a 12.0 is prob pretty dangerous on the street and not too reliable. 
NOTE: i also have peloquin lsd now, and DR's going on in spring. The car will be very fun to drive http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
and i <3 my ko4 so much i changed my plates


















_Modified by DBVeeDB at 12:19 PM 1-19-2009_


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I really hope the OP makes an informed decision to not waste his money on a KO4.


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

the OP's request was to get 250-270 whp. Jonny and Trevor, Jtec and 04Vdubgli respectively have both already made MORE than 250 whp on ther 02x setups. so how would it be a waste IZvw? 


_Modified by DBVeeDB at 12:56 PM 1-19-2009_


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (IzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IzVW* »_I really hope the OP makes an informed decision to not waste his money on a KO4.

I have been around here for a while now and have to say I have grown tired of the K04-001 bashing. It all comes down to money. I have no idea how much funds the OP has but if his K03/K03s blows and only wants to spend about $2k his only option is a K04-001 or used setup. Not everyone wants to be a numbers whore or spend $3-4000 on a BT. And to be honest, to do it right, that $4k is JUST THE BEGINNING.
Seriously, maybe the guy doesnt know everything else he will need. So many people just slap on BTs and think they are God's on the street. There are many things that need to be done as well. The car needs to be maintained, new tires, wider rims, better brakes, suspension. Id be scared to drive a BT car with stock brakes, tires, and suspension. I thought with just a chip my car was unsafe. You will also need a FMIC, software alone is $800 for Uni (I Think) Not everyone wants to drop $8k+ into their car. And to do it right, it will be that much!
Im not rich but maintain my car very well. I have already dropped a decent amount, $500 for GIAC X+, $1000 for my Techtonics Tuning TBE, $1000 for my suspension (Shine Springs, Bilstein Shocks/Struts, R32 LCA Bushings, Upper Strut Mounts, Dog Bone Mounts,. $1000 on Enkei RFP1 17x8 rims that weight only 15.5lbs each, plus decent summer tires. I use my stock rims for my snow tires. All Those numbers include labor and yes I could have gone cheap / Chinese crap but I did not want too. I honest feel I bought the best of the best for my car, and truly LOVE it. Its not the fastest, doesnt handle the best but I do surprize a few cars and enjoy my hour commute to work. 
I for one do NOT want to play around at 140MPH+ on the highway. I prefer 1/4 mile and light to light. But to each his own. It all depends on what HE wants, what type of experience HE wants. I do not want to drop another $1k-1.5k to get a GT28R/RS. Would I love to? Would I enjoy it more? Hell YES! But I have to be realistic. Maybe he has a family or saving for school, or maybe his K03 blew. I am NOT talking about the OP spefically jut saying...
/rant










_Modified by VWGolfA4 at 1:39 PM 1-19-2009_


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Thins is pointless. OP go for the k04. If your happy, great. If your not in a few months, WE TOLD YOU SO!


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (DBVeeDB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DBVeeDB* »_the OP's request was to get 250-270 whp. Jonny and Trevor, Jtec and 04Vdubgli respectively have both already made MORE than 250 whp on ther 02x setups. so how would it be a waste IZvw? 

_Modified by DBVeeDB at 12:42 PM 1-19-2009_

Didn't Trevor have an AEB head? Also some KO4 guys use WAI and NOS to make numbers, doesn't mean it's good for the turbo.
Some guy made 250 whp on a KO3s. Do you still recommend it?
For how much you spend on a KO4 setup you aren't getting anything out of it.
If you want 250 to 270 WHP get a turbo that's made for it, not a KO4-001. A 023 is going to make more power but for what you have to spend on the manifold, software, injectors etc you make more power with a Super 60 setup way more efficiently.
I'm not bashing on KO4's just for the hell of it. How many of you rage against us who offer good advice to avoid them, and then later on come back with a bigger turbo that actually produces some power? It's not personal but why would you wish that on someone else.....
Also for what you said about money. Good point. And if you can't afford a BT setup then don't do it, because it will bite you in the ass. Sometimes not doing anything with your car is the right answer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by IzVW at 10:53 AM 1-19-2009_


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

i think trevor has an ABD intake mani, but not an AEB head. yeah i think savwko made 258whp on ko3? no i wouldnt recommend that haha. 
my ko4 setups cost me about 2200. and I bought my turbo new. I def think that a ko4-001 is not the right choice for 250+, i wont disagree with you there. 
and just so were on the same page, i am not bashing you or making it personal either. I just enjoy my ko4 a lot, anything more wouldnt make much sense without some serious tires and the kind of driving I do.


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (DBVeeDB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DBVeeDB* »_i think trevor has an ABD intake mani, but not an AEB head. yeah i think savwko made 258whp on ko3? no i wouldnt recommend that haha. 
my ko4 setups cost me about 2200. and I bought my turbo new. I def think that a ko4-001 is not the right choice for 250+, i wont disagree with you there. 
and just so were on the same page, i am not bashing you or making it personal either. I just enjoy my ko4 a lot, anything more wouldnt make much sense without some serious tires and the kind of driving I do. 

Oh I dig, but you know the trolls come out on KO4 threads.


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

trolls are everywhere on the tex, haha, not just ko4 threads.


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

where's what it comes down to:
Spend 5 grand on a K04 set up, push insanely high PSI out of it (stressing it out) and put down high TQ, and a HP figure that dwindles with RPMs.
OR, spend the same for a bigger turbo, get a broad HP and TQ range, and put down alot more, without stressing any of the components.
Up to you. 
Spending money on rods etc. on a K04 is like buying a prostitute a nice meal in order to get sex out of her. It's superfluous and unnecessary. And if you are doing it, you must have some really out of the norm requests to be making, or something. 


















_Modified by -Khaos- at 8:42 PM 1-19-2009_


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*

But who said it was $5,000 for a K04-001 setup? Even a K04-02x can be sourced for cheaper then that. And as I said before, that $5k is just the start of the other things you will want to / need to buy.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (VWGolfA4)*

I have owned a k04-001: within 30 minutes of installing it i was disappointed, within 30 days I was pissed off, and within 30 weeks I had a 28RS. Take it for what its worth


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_I have owned a k04-001: within 30 minutes of installing it i was disappointed, within 30 days I was pissed off, and within 30 weeks I had a 28RS. Take it for what its worth

/thread


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_I have owned a k04-001: within 30 minutes of installing it i was disappointed...

Im sure most of us will feel the same way, but again it all comes down to how much you want to spend and what the persons goals are. I would say dont waste your money 'upgrading' to this turbo unless your K03 died and you wanted a 1/2 step up. Thats it. A new K03s is about half the price.


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

if i spent 5k ona my ko4 setup i would kill myself.. so i dont know where your getting that number from?


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (DBVeeDB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DBVeeDB* »_if i spent 5k ona my ko4 setup i would kill myself.. so i dont know where your getting that number from? 

A K04, by itself, is NOT worth it; that's what some are arguing. 
Then people start saying:
Yeah! But get exhaust, intercooler, tuning, W/M, rods, rods installed, LSD, bleh bleh bleh... You can get ~270WHP! 
That's where I got the 5 grand from. The only way people are countering the "K04 isn't worth it crew" is by bringing into the discussion cars that have every single thing done BUT a big turbo (kind of like yours). 
So, if we're going to talk about the K04, let's talk about it's merits as the OP would like to apply it, not building up everything around it, then pushing it to 150% max capability and using that as the litmus paper. 


_Modified by -Khaos- at 10:33 PM 1-19-2009_


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Khaos-* »_
A K04, by itself, is NOT worth it; that's what some are arguing. 


if thats what some think(and obivously you) thats fine, but i am by no means pushing my ko4 to 150%... i was only trying to give the OP some input on the turbo I have, and enjoy thoroughly. 
and i didnt say my LSD added power, haha, and if anyone is upgrading a turbo, its 90% of the time given that they willl aready have TBE and FMIC. My rods are going in as a failsafe because of the torque the ko4 throws, after WMI i dont want to be having a risk. ANd now, if I do go bigger in the future im ready.... 
If the OP has anyone questions on how the 02x feels, pulls, or drives, feel free to pm me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
now... on to the ko4 bashing








-Devin


_Modified by DBVeeDB at 4:46 PM 1-19-2009_


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## undroath (Jun 20, 2008)

The bottom line is his power goal.
250-270whp, even thou it is possible. it is very unlikely on a k04
a gt28rs (or any other 'mild' BT) is a safe way to meet those power goals.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: k04 hp range I search my ass off. =) (YellowG60Driver)*

Think all the ko4-001 pushers are missing one very VALID point his the org post....

_Quote, originally posted by *YellowG60Driver* »_What would I have to do to reach 250-270 whp. What's the most power that's been put down out of the K04 on a stock block? Anyway to get above the 230whp mark? Basically what can I do with the K04 to reach some good numbers? *Not just a spike but solid across the board.*


Not going to make that with either ko4. Both ko4's will have the power fall on its face at about 5.5k and totally lack hp. If he wants to have a powerband, he needs either a gt28r or t3 60trim. Both will make the upper range and then some if needed with a few k rpm powerband vs a few hundred. Spend the $3k right the first time and be happy instead of this oem+ crap that people keep saying.


----------



## Nightrider (May 10, 2002)

*Re: k04 hp range I search my ass off. =) (cincyTT)*

Three things:
1) Why did I read this thread?
2) Is the OP even watching this thread?
3) Reread the OP's original post... the k04 crap isn't answering his question








OP, to get where you want as far as peak power and broad power band you should look into a 28rs or t3s60. Or, even a bigger turbo (like 50 trim) at lower boost should your power goals ever change. If you are looking for prices, a hardware kit ~$2000+, fuel and software ~$1000+ for most setups. If you want to piece it together, look at the parts list for these kits and start scrolling through the classifieds... you might save $100 or you might save $1000. Good luck.


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: k04 hp range I search my ass off. =) (cincyTT)*

LOL 28rs ftw


----------



## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (VWGolfA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGolfA4* »_
Im sure most of us will feel the same way, but again it all comes down to how much you want to spend and what the persons goals are. I would say dont waste your money 'upgrading' to this turbo unless your K03 died and you wanted a 1/2 step up. Thats it. A new K03s is about half the price.

I had the same attitude as everyone else who supports the -001 (i've got nothing against the -02X in certain instances)...until I actually bought one and put it on. Within minutes, i was thinking, "doohhhhhhhhh, they were right"








I find that many (not all) -001 defenders have yet to actually run one. Only after dumping thousands of dollars and hours of labor into one do they quietly join the side of "hater" lol. Fortunate enough for me, I was able to swallow my pride and put a real turbo in a few months later http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_I had the same attitude as everyone else who supports the -001 (i've got nothing against the -02X in certain instances)...until I actually bought one and put it on. Within minutes, i was thinking, "doohhhhhhhhh, they were right"








I find that many (not all) -001 defenders have yet to actually run one. Only after dumping thousands of dollars and hours of labor into one do they quietly join the side of "hater" lol. Fortunate enough for me, I was able to swallow my pride and put a real turbo in a few months later http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Haha well you obviously have the money to mess up and do it again the right way. Some dont like me. I agree with you 110% but I am trying to see both sides of the story. Especially from my point of view. I would only do this if my K03 died.
Here is my understanding of why. I have a chip and a tbe. I am assuming I am at around 180-190whp. If I get the k04 with minimum supporting mods (software, injectors, maf) would be less then $2000 for Im hoping for 200-210whp. Is that right? I would have to spend at least another $1500 to step it up and do it right. I have it, just dont want to spend it. If you do have it and want to spend it, then dont even look at the K04. haha. 


_Modified by VWGolfA4 at 7:35 PM 1-19-2009_


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## Nightrider (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (VWGolfA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGolfA4* »_
I am at around 180-190whp. 
would be less then $2000 for Im hoping for 200-210whp. 


~10-20 whp increase (maybe) -> * $100-$200/whp gained *

_Quote, originally posted by *VWGolfA4* »_
I would have to spend at least another $1500 to step it up and do it right. 


~120-150 whp (*guaranteed*) -> *~$20-26/whp gained *









Just an example (thanks for letting me use you numbers VWGolfA4







)


_Modified by Nightrider at 9:46 PM 1-19-2009_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (VWGolfA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGolfA4* »_

Here is my understanding of why. I have a chip and a tbe. I am assuming I am at around 180-190whp. If I get the k04 with minimum supporting mods (software, injectors, maf) would be less then $2000 for Im hoping for 200-210whp. Is that right? I would have to spend at least another $1500 to step it up and do it right. I have it, just dont want to spend it. If you do have it and want to spend it, then dont even look at the K04. haha. 

_Modified by VWGolfA4 at 7:35 PM 1-19-2009_

A ko3s will make the 200-210 range no problem, more with w/m but its still going to be for only a 1k rpms tops.
You can get a gt28r setup for about $2500 with all new parts (except a dp, new add $200) and that will easily do 250-270whp like the op asked and up to 300whp when pushed all with a much longer powerband.


----------



## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (VWGolfA4)*

Bottom line you can meet those power goals with a fast spooling ko4-020 The only problem is most are in rod bending territory because of the torque spike. So keep it at around 20psi or so until you get rods done which are now around 400 for a rod upgrade package. If your willing to wait get a bit more money for say a 50trim or a gt3071r you'll be able to reach those power goals without changing rods because of the slower spool; thus less of a low end torque spike. The only downside would be your powerband wouldn't start till 3500-4000rpm.


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## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (Budsdubbin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Budsdubbin* »_Bottom line you can meet those power goals with a fast spooling ko4-020 The only problem is most are in rod bending territory because of the torque spike. So keep it at around 20psi or so until you get rods done which are now around 400 for a rod upgrade package. *If your willing to wait get a bit more money for say a 50trim or a gt3071r you'll be able to reach those power goals without changing rods because of the slower spool; thus less of a low end torque spike.*The only downside would be your powerband wouldn't start till 3500-4000rpm. 

before giving false statements like that, why don't you read over some threads first... n0ob.
this puts your theory to shame:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4191093


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (RvGrnGTI)*

I've been on here for the last 5 years buddy just needed a new name. LOW boosting a gt3071r or 50trim as opposed too over boosting a ko4-020 to get 270-280whp with a huge low end torque spike ... which do you think is safer







WHy do you think there have been many who are on the kenetics kit and have yet to install rods, some are low boosting to be safe, some are boosting enough for 350whp because its safer with a bigger sized turbo on the 1.8. Torque happens later down the powerband which makes in easier on the rods. 
noob ... please rebuttal 


_Modified by Budsdubbin at 8:32 AM 1-20-2009_


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

i seen the guy do a price list of a ko4.(3k+)
can i see one with a bt set up???
also if i wanted to get just about 250whp would i go with a ko4? i know people with he bt kit will say yea get this kit and you can make it and later on if you want more then its there. but what if i don't want more?
I guess you can say I'm looking for the cheapest safest easiest way to make 250whp.
please don't give me the hole
cheap 
safe
fast
stuff i just need a answerer thanks.


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (dixongli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dixongli* »_i seen the guy do a price list of a ko4.(3k+)
can i see one with a bt set up??? 


Kinetics does a kit. You can pick the turbo, but the T3T4 50 trim with .63 AR will do 300WTQ and 350WHP. For 3K. 
Or, don't get that turbo and do whatever you want, even a T3S60, or GT2871.

_Quote »_
also if i wanted to get just about 250whp would i go with a ko4? i know people with he bt kit will say yea get this kit and you can make it and later on if you want more then its there. but what if i don't want more? 

First, why are you fixated on that number? It makes it hard to understand that while a K04 _may_ make 250WHP if pushed HARD, it won't be for long. The powerband will be too far to the left (more towards TQ). Which also makes it less safe than a "real" big turbo pushing low boost.
As mentioned, a GT28 variant, or a T3S60 will be just fine.

_Quote »_
I guess you can say I'm looking for the cheapest safest easiest way to make 250whp.
please don't give me the hole
cheap 
safe
fast
stuff i just need a answerer thanks.

Cheap and safe? you're not going to make that HP. Period. And you already know it from your quote.
250WHP is high enough that you can't get there with a K03/K04, and so low it's almost a waste of money to get a big turbo set up just to run that low of a number.


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

well its a family car that i love but need just a little more power to go to the track in. 250whp seems just about right b/c I'm sure i can hit a very high 13 with it. 
but after looking around I'm really look in to a low boosted 50trim


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## dixongli (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*

a good friend of mine made 243whp on a ko4(18psi) why could i not make 250whp out of a ko4 with out pushing it hard. and he had very little boltons


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (dixongli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dixongli* »_a good friend of mine made 243whp on a ko4(18psi) why could i not make 250whp out of a ko4 with out pushing it hard. and he had very little boltons

I didn't mean to say it was impossible, just that it would be pushing the turbo a bit much. They aren't rated for that kind of power.
If you like the way it drives go ahead, if it's for "track" I guess it depends what you mean...
K04 with good tires would be good for autocross, or really tight curvey tracks. (though the TQ will still make it want to break loose constantly)
A bigger turbo on low boost would be faster on "regular" tracks, or the quartermile, where you can use the revs to your advantage.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

A CTS kit will run you about $3400 on there website, pagparts is i believe $200 or so cheaper.
If people can assemble parts, a gt28r kit it will be just ~$2900 new and ~$2700 with a used dp or sourcing other parts used (inj, ecu, etc).
Much better 250-280whp turbo with just above those in wtq without the extra lag or as massive tq spike as a ko4


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## 04VDubGLI (May 20, 2005)

*Re: (IzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IzVW* »_
Didn't Trevor have an AEB head? Also some KO4 guys use WAI and NOS to make numbers, doesn't mean it's good for the turbo.
Some guy made 250 whp on a KO3s. Do you still recommend it?
For how much you spend on a KO4 setup you aren't getting anything out of it.
If you want 250 to 270 WHP get a turbo that's made for it, not a KO4-001. A 023 is going to make more power but for what you have to spend on the manifold, software, injectors etc you make more power with a Super 60 setup way more efficiently.
I'm not bashing on KO4's just for the hell of it. How many of you rage against us who offer good advice to avoid them, and then later on come back with a bigger turbo that actually produces some power? It's not personal but why would you wish that on someone else.....
Also for what you said about money. Good point. And if you can't afford a BT setup then don't do it, because it will bite you in the ass. Sometimes not doing anything with your car is the right answer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by IzVW at 10:53 AM 1-19-2009_

I'm going to avoid saying too much as I honestly do believe anyone expecting more than 220-230whp out for an 001 or 240-250whp out of an 02x is asking too much... but, I just wanted to drop some specs on my setup in case anyone was interested just so they don't have the wrong impression.







(though Devin has covered me mostly anyhow).
I did make 258whp and 276wtq on a k04-02x on 93oct - 6spd in 4th. It was ~66*. The dyno sheet and the graph can be found in the k04-02x thread - pg19 IIRC. The car was holding somewhere around 230-235whp @ ~6500 RPMS. Now, the important that I want to be clear about is that I've put tons of time in logging my car and it has some unusual extra bits as well. As mentioned above, while I HAVE made that power, I don't think it's "average" for doing the swap. I have an ABD intake mani, a Forge WGA w/a 7-9psi spring(stock one was bent







), FMIC, 3" TBE, all silicone/hardpiping, and the other usual stuff. No WMI, no c02 on the FMIC, no anything extra. The turbo tends to spike 23psi and hold somewhere around 17psi. While I say spike, I mean to say it holds 23psi from like 3k-5.5/6k and then tapers as one would expect. 
In the near future I'm going to do more mods - which is where the AEB thing comes from. I have a good couple more tricks up my sleeve.








The reason I'm really posting is to say what I really feel a k04 (001 or 02x) can do. The average person will see around the numbers I gave earlier. That's just what it is IMO. I don't think it should be misconstrued any other way. The important thing is that you enjoy what you're doing with your car. IMHO paying someone to put a k04-001 on a car is going to leave you very disappointed. You will drop tons of money for the labor (turbo and high flow mani are like <$1k if you do any homework - which isn't entirely unreasonable), the parts and software and feel a bigger torque spike with only a little more horsepower. If you do it yourself then you're MORE apt to enjoy the setup. You only spent a grand and you got some extra kick in the pants. Probably worth a few tenths and a couple of cars on the road. 
Now, for a k04-02x... you can skim the classifieds and find very "complete" setups for probably $1100-1200. Really not that much more than the k04-001. The only downside is that you either have to get a 42DD DP or Pro-Imports uppipe. So, it's not quite as inexpensive. Plus if you have APR you can't upgrade to anything. Kind of a bummer. The k04-02x won't make much more torque than an 001, but it's smoother from what I've felt thus far. Additionally it will carry the torque further right. It's a slightly larger turbine wheel and an moderately larger comp wheel (compared to a standard 001, not one fitted w/the k03-052 wheel or anything). If you're paying someone to install this kit... I'd probably forget about it. It's a turbo swap... like manifold to injectors and everything between; unlike a k04-001. 
I guess I'm just tossing my .02 out there. I've loved my k04-02x. I can't even begin to say what I've learned about my car and turbos in general since messing around with this kit. Don't get me wrong, I came into this turbo expecting 240whp. If you expect anything else... you're probably hoping a bit too much for the average setup. I have another "kit"







sitting around waiting for something that will spin all 4 wheels to come my way. That'll be the car that gets the power. For a FWD daily... it really is probably what should have come on the car. I can't imagine as many swaps would occur if people could actually hit 250whp on stock turbo. I also think that the k04-02x (if it were on more cars) would have seen 300whp by now.


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## BeauDennis (Dec 26, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i would go with exhaust, engine mounts, hoses, intake, etc


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## Blu--Pearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_I have owned a k04-001: within 30 minutes of installing it i was disappointed, within 30 days I was pissed off, and within 30 weeks I had a 28RS. Take it for what its worth

Nola is correct, like i told the OP u can make power with a ko4-001 but its really not real power if u can hold it past 7k. I wont be happy with it man. Just get a t3supa60 and keep boost around 16-17psi if u only wanna make 250-260whp and worried about the guts of the motor. U will run mid to high 13's with a 105-106 traps which would take a ko4 puch to its limits and a really good driver.


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## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (1.8tNdahaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8tNdahaus* »_i agree with all who said ko4 doesnt proide enough...but then again you always want more than what you have. But i have seen in the mazda spped 3 forums they are boring the turbo and clipping the fins and adding about 30whp. I will look for the dynos

that's ****** retarded.


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## Chris Mac (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: (RvGrnGTI)*

heres a good way to look at this, if you want 270 to 300 hp, this is what you do, sell vw by 95 bmw m3 prolly get a half decent milage one for 9k spend 4k on cams, injectors, catback, software and intake and make those numbers to the ground all day, in a GREAT handling RWD car that will outperform the 350hp gti's any day of the week. all you who say anything above 300whp in a fwd equals awesome and fast are blind, without slicks you will have wheel spin you will need an aftermarket diff. where as on an e36 m3 the stock diff will do you fine, you can find an aftermarket diff or an upgraded diff from a newer e36 and slap that in.
fwd and BT power make not alot of sense to me, you have to do so much more to them to make them reliable, fast, and stick to the ground. you can build an e36 m3 for less money and make similar power. NA power tho, my e36 m3 is a stage 4 na 95 m3 putting 320 to the ground. cost a grand total of 17k to build. if your looking to go BT correctly you are looking at at least 8 to 10k for enigne, turbo, and exhaust setups, nm suspension and the other things you might wanna do. and of every BT vw i have seen at strips they run the most inconsistent times out of every car maybe cept boosted s2k's. thats my opinion.
Yes i drive a ko4-001 1.8t, thats cause i blew my k03 and wasnt every planning on going big power, just a little jump, the vw is my make low and good looking car. the m is the track car, and not straight line garbage. 
I like big power like the rest of you but pick the right platform. why is it that cars like evos and sti's and muscle cars and the like all have a plethora of sub 10 sec cars, that run those times consistently, but yet there are only a handful of vw compared to them pulling the same numbers. **** up untill recently the fastest 1.8 was like a low 10. and the fastest vr was low nines if i remember correctly. yet the ams evo is shooting for 8 flat this season or high 7 i cant remember. 
whatever tho op, have fun on your quest. just remember you want FUN 270 to 280 daily power on you DAILY DRIVEN car, sell it and get an e36 m3.


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## Chris Mac (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: (Blu--Pearl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blu--Pearl* »_
Nola is correct, like i told the OP u can make power with a ko4-001 but its really not real power if u can hold it past 7k. I wont be happy with it man. Just get a t3supa60 and keep boost around 16-17psi if u only wanna make 250-260whp and worried about the guts of the motor. U will run mid to high 13's with a 105-106 traps which would take a ko4 puch to its limits and a really good driver. 

mid to high 13's at 250 hp is really high my man, low 13 high 12's are def achievable. with those numbers. if you are competent at driving at all.


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (V ScruB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V ScruB* »_
whatever tho op, have fun on your quest. just remember you want FUN 270 to 280 daily power on you DAILY DRIVEN car, sell it and get an e36 m3.

This is so off topic it hurts. Why even bother? Stop going on about other cars, this isn't the place. Its a k04 argument. 
Please stop spreading the myth that a "proper" big turbo build is $8-10k, some people don't want 9krpm gt35r builds. NOLA, Blu_Perl, theswoleguy, narbie- they've all done nice strong BT setups for not a whole assload of money and make good power.

Also, can you PM me your 320whp NA m3 dyno? I'd like to see that....
Just like I'd like to see a 300whp k03 dyno....










_Modified by themachasy at 7:49 AM 1-26-2009_


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (V ScruB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V ScruB* »_*blah blah blah blah blah*

That was the longest post I ever read that added nothing of value to the conversation.
He isn't going to sell his car, and FWD isn't a bad platform for power till you get WAY past any setup this guy seems likely to do. So stop wasting the OP's time with your nonsense.


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## Addicted II Speed (Nov 2, 2007)

Ill make it easy.
You want those numbers with reliability? Go BT. 
You want a cheaper, mild gain thats less than your goal? Go K04
Or you can just by an Evo VIII that already has that power, w/ awd for better handling/traction especially in weather. But then your dealing with DSM and reliability goes down a bit.
I believe someone on vortex said this already. You have three choices when you get a car. You only get to pick two. Fast, reliable, cheap.


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (Addicted II Speed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Addicted II Speed* »_
Or you can just by an Evo VIII that already has that power, w/ awd for better handling/traction especially in weather. But then your dealing with DSM and reliability goes down a bit.


This thread isn't about DSMs, the rest of your post was fine but why would you post this? OP can do a haldex swap for all it matters, but why do people keep mentioning buying other cars!


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*FV-QR*

OP: "I am considering a KO4 upgrade"
Everyone: "Well you should sell your VW and buy a Porsche 911 Turbo. Because we all know that platform is built for speed and price is no object if you are planning on buying a BT upgrade anyway."


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## Addicted II Speed (Nov 2, 2007)

*Re: (themachasy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *themachasy* »_
This thread isn't about DSMs, the rest of your post was fine but why would you post this? OP can do a haldex swap for all it matters, but why do people keep mentioning buying other cars!

lol ok you got me there... But really, haldex IMO isn't THAT great... 70/30 front to rear split, correct? Still mostly FWD. AWD none the less, but isn't install a pain? New gas tank, lots of cutting, transmission... Correct?
I consitered haldex at one point but time/money are tight at the moment.


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (Addicted II Speed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Addicted II Speed* »_
lol ok you got me there... But really, haldex IMO isn't THAT great... 70/30 front to rear split, correct? Still mostly FWD. AWD none the less, but isn't install a pain? New gas tank, lots of cutting, transmission... Correct?
I consitered haldex at one point but time/money are tight at the moment.

k04 talk only, check your pms.


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## NahRamp18t (Oct 6, 2008)

I'm a ko4 owner and its more than enough for me. I'm happy with my gains. Then again I am coming from the 150hp setup. I have no reason to want 300+ hp. I like the reliability of the ko4 setup since its so stock like. I also have a hiflow manifold, revo programming, cold air intake, 007dv, and turbo back exhaust. The setup was enough to cause me to need a sach clutch upgrade. 
As was previously stated, it really depends on your wants. If you want spend tons of money on tuning fuel, clutches, LSD, fuel, brakes, and questionable reliability...then by all means. 
Also, beware of who does the work for you. You could end up spending you hard earned money on fixing people's mistakes. I'm working with the guys @ Assist motorsports in Georgia getting the manifold and turbo leak fixed. Apparently the previous mechanics over tightened the bolts on my mani & turbo causing them to break.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Run your k03s on ethanol.
I daily drive a 230whp+ 276wtq+ 01 GTi on a stock turbo with a highflow manifold.
I wont even buy a K04. It's big turbo or nothing.
THe k04 exhaust wheel is 3-4mm bigger? The compressor wheel is actually smaller? 
Rubbish. You could install a k04 exhaust wheel in a used k03s that has been bored over and balanced cheaper, plus have a larger compressor wheel than a k04.


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## adema69 (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: (themachasy)*

how many times does his car break down or have problems? let me check how many times my k04 broke something on my car hmm 0


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (adema69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adema69* »_how many times does his car break down or have problems? let me check how many times my k04 broke something on my car hmm 0

Point is what? My GT28R and GT28RS never caused anything to break either. I'm not sure what you are getting at. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## adema69 (Jun 4, 2006)

my friend with a gt2871 went through three manifolds and blows intercoolers hoses off left and right.


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## Chris Mac (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: (themachasy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *themachasy* »_

Also, can you PM me your 320whp NA m3 dyno? I'd like to see that....
Just like I'd like to see a 300whp k03 dyno....









_Modified by themachasy at 7:49 AM 1-26-2009_

since i do not care about this cause it was off topic anyways, seeing as how we were talking about ko4's and such yet no one is talking about just k04's.
i wont send you a dyno sheet cause frankly i dont know where the hell it is. but its been backd up plenty of times. and it is extremely easily attainable actually. little port and polish work here, and some big cams there and a few other things. but good luck with yourself. and when i find that sheet or get it re dynoed i will keep you in mind.


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (adema69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adema69* »_my friend with a gt2871 went through three manifolds and blows intercoolers hoses off left and right.

Your friend has a s*itty setup then. If you do it right you won't have problems. Unless you are going like 600 whp where you are stressing the crap out of your engine or something, I mean these things do have limits....


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## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (adema69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adema69* »_my friend with a gt2871 went through three manifolds and blows intercoolers hoses off left and right.

The 2871r is NOT that much bigger than a gt28rs








Tell your friend to buy some t-bolt clamps and have a competent mechanic install the couplers for him and they won't "blow off"


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## adema69 (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: (RvGrnGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RvGrnGTI* »_
The 2871r is NOT that much bigger than a gt28rs








Tell your friend to buy some t-bolt clamps and have a competent mechanic install the couplers for him and they won't "blow off"









Hmm funny thing is that he has a tbolt clamps on the couplers. Its still bigger and like everybody says your gonna want to go bigger eventually http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NahRamp18t (Oct 6, 2008)

How about all you high horsepower ko4 guys post your dyno info here so we can see some proof. 
I got a ko4 because my ko3 exploded, and I needed a replacement. Otherwise i would have saved for the gt28rs eliminator setup to bolt on to my kinetics manifold. Am i to understand that people are not happy with these "ko4 eliminators"?


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## mcgyver7923 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (NahRamp18t)*

I have a K04-001 and APR programming. I think my stock SMIC is killing my performance with timing retard due to high IAT's. Anyway when it's running strong my K04 feels really good and I road race the car 8 times a year so the torque helps me a lot. My concern with going bigger is the loss of that low power and minimal lag I get with the K04. Let's say my car puts down 220WHP, if that is true then I need something that puts down around 300WHP to make me happy but still give me low end torque. I would love to drop $5k on the APR Stage 3+ with the GT28rs variant, however...I don't want to spend $5k hahaha! What do you suggest? 
FWIW I got my K04 because the wastegate was failing on my K03 (no clue what variant I had it is an 01 AWW engine) to the point where it wouldn't boost over 13psi. For $1k installed at ECS tuning I had no choice but to go K04 at the time.


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## mcgyver7923 (Oct 16, 2003)

OH also, I will be putting an FMIC on regardless of what turbo set up I go with..The Kinetics stage 2 looks like it might be a winnner...


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## adema69 (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: (NahRamp18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NahRamp18t* »_How about all you high horsepower ko4 guys post your dyno info here so we can see some proof. 
I got a ko4 because my ko3 exploded, and I needed a replacement. Otherwise i would have saved for the gt28rs eliminator setup to bolt on to my kinetics manifold. Am i to understand that people are not happy with these "ko4 eliminators"? 

Proof once again i will post my dyno videos feel free to watch em.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLwkLNKoHsM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5RDoBSJOak


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## NahRamp18t (Oct 6, 2008)

*Re: (adema69)*

What are your mods? What software are you running? how can I be down!?!?!? Show me the way oh great 1


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## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (NahRamp18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NahRamp18t* »_What are your mods? What software are you running? how can I be down!?!?!? Show me the way oh great 1










Just run your k04-001 upwards of 24psi... right out of it's efficiency range.


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## RvGrnGTI (Apr 13, 2005)

*Re: (RvGrnGTI)*

Woah wait... does that say 1200+wtq


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## pest (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: (RvGrnGTI)*

wow this topic really has gone arai . 
i guess what needs to be answered is if you want to get 250 or more hp your way better off paying for a big turbo set up then go from there. 
On topic with power smaller turbos will never make big power . 
I have a ko4-01 and i like it i did just get one because my ko3s was done and i was not willing to spend more money on a ig turbo set up and the extra parts that are necessary like a a new clucth that will take your power.
My old bucket is a 2001 and i am still on my stock clutch set up . 
If yuo want power go big end of story


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## Kevin_ram (Jul 30, 2014)

IzVW said:


> <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>DBVeeDB</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the OP's request was to get 250-270 whp. Jonny and Trevor, Jtec and 04Vdubgli respectively have both already made MORE than 250 whp on ther 02x setups. so how would it be a waste IZvw? <p><br><i>Modified by DBVeeDB at 12:42 PM 1-19-2009</i></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Didn't Trevor have an AEB head? Also some KO4 guys use WAI and NOS to make numbers, doesn't mean it's good for the turbo.<p>Some guy made 250 whp on a KO3s. Do you still recommend it?<p>For how much you spend on a KO4 setup you aren't getting anything out of it.<p>If you want 250 to 270 WHP get a turbo that's made for it, not a KO4-001. A 023 is going to make more power but for what you have to spend on the manifold, software, injectors etc you make more power with a Super 60 setup way more efficiently.<p>I'm not bashing on KO4's just for the hell of it. How many of you rage against us who offer good advice to avoid them, and then later on come back with a bigger turbo that actually produces some power? It's not personal but why would you wish that on someone else.....<p>Also for what you said about money. Good point. And if you can't afford a BT setup then don't do it, because it will bite you in the ass. Sometimes not doing anything with your car is the right answer. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
> <i>Modified by IzVW at 10:53 AM 1-19-2009</i>


I have a 2002 gti stock turbo pushing around 260 but with everything that can possible be done to the car except for internals so with a ko4 id say you can get more


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