# supercharged 2.5l



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

OG thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4177789-brainstorming-a-supercharger-system.

updated 5/24/13

page 33
mldouthi's car dynoed at C2 motorsports
s/c has a 3 inch pulley and put out
255whp & 223wtq









sowo ic:

P1040234 by dhenr012, on Flickr



page 31


mldouthi said:


>







mldouthi said:


> First Start!!




first drive


mldouthi said:


>


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

Wishful thinking...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

forgive my ignorance, but all pulleys run based on the crank pulley, right?


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## mmrabbit (Jun 27, 2008)

Subscribed!!!


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Would love to see one of these come into existence for us, but our biggest limiting factor is space and accessibility to those pulleys. NLS has an idea they think will work, but someone needs to have a minimum $6-8k for a one off kit...

Me want one real bad.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

go turbo-cheaper and better HP numbers.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Yes. But I love super. For me, if I couldn't super, I'm stayin NA.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Horrible idea. The stage 2 24v vr6 super charger kits only make 250whp. I'll take 250whp with a small, properly sized, daily driven turbo setup, than a horrible super charger. I'd rather spend the $$$ to go all motor as well, since the super charger setup won't be any faster and will sound like a blender.

Super chargers are an exercise in futility. There is no reason to choose one over a turbo in aftermarket applications.


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## Stg3G60 (Apr 7, 2008)

tchilds said:


> Super chargers are an exercise in futility. There is no reason to choose one over a turbo in aftermarket applications.


Really? so why do top fuel dragsters use superchargers?

I personally would rather have a SC than a turbo, I think it sounds better, there is aboslutely no lag, and I like the way that it works off pulleys rather than the exhaust. Sometimes turbos are cheaper, sometimes not, it depends on the car. It all comes down to personal opinion really, the debate of sc vs. turbo will go on for ever. To each his own.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Im going to give it a go.


I just picked up a M62 off a cobalt. I read through that thread from a while ago. Any help will be appreciated. And help does not consist of saying it wont work, or saying just use a turbo 

Some help I would like is:
-sizing the pulley,
-a dxf of the intake flange, C2 said they would sell me there already made flange thats on there sri, but I havent gotten a response in a couple days, therefore I might have to make my own. 
-C2 also said they would do the software, again no response in a couple days on pricing and what not.

Space will not be an use, because the hood is only metal and I have cutting tools.... if the s/c doesnt fit.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Stg3G60 said:


> Really? so why do top fuel dragsters use superchargers?
> 
> I personally would rather have a SC than a turbo, I think it sounds better, there is aboslutely no lag, and I like the way that it works off pulleys rather than the exhaust. Sometimes turbos are cheaper, sometimes not, it depends on the car. It all comes down to personal opinion really, the debate of sc vs. turbo will go on for ever. To each his own.


Top fuel dragsters use it because it gives INSTANT power.... and when you are running sub 5 seconds it matters a lot. To get a turbo to make that much power it will take a long time to spool even though they have large displacements. It takes about 900hp to spin the supercharger and they produce anywhere form 8,000hp-10,000hp runing 50-70 psi. Try and get that from a turbo... Even if you could use like brake booster, it's just not feasible.

Now as for other cars really it is up to personal choice. Turbo is naturally more efficient as it takes waited energy from the engine that normally would be (for lack of a better term) thrown away. Unlike the supercharger the turbo does not need to take power to spin it. A supercharger can take up to 20% of the engines power simply to spin it. But one advantage is that you have power instantly. unlike turbo you need to wait for it to spool (unless they are small but there is always going to be a delay). From what i've seen and please correct me if i'm wrong, typically a supercharger kit is more expensive than a turbo (only because a supercharger is inherently more expensive) I do love the sound of the turbo spooling but the wine of the supercharger is also awesome. I hope this helps some.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Im considering jumping ship from the Rabbit to the 3.6l Genesis, and putting a blower on it.

Idk to me this just looks soo much better than a Mkv and puts down 301whp stock, with header, exhaust, tune and larger tb 360whp, and a company makes a 5k$ blower kit that makes over 500whp and it sounds mean as hell


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Im going to give it a go.
> 
> 
> I just picked up a M62 off a cobalt. I read through that thread from a while ago. Any help will be appreciated. And help does not consist of saying it wont work, or saying just use a turbo
> ...


Im in for the results. Im getting severely bored with the Rabbit, with it being n/a and all the bs that goes into turbo'n these things to make real power, already did it once and wont do it again. If I keep it I want to do something unique, so let me know when you get the price of the flange, as I may do this along with you :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Im in for the results. Im getting severely bored with the Rabbit, with it being n/a and all the bs that goes into turbo'n these things to make real power, already did it once and wont do it again. If I keep it I want to do something unique, so let me know when you get the price of the flange, as I may do this along with you :thumbup:


The guys from C2 just messaged me. $299 for the flange. 

I think its a great price, Thats probably close to what it would cost me to buy the material and have someone cut it with a cnc machine. Let alone all the time to get the dims right.

C2 :thumbup::thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> The guys from C2 just messaged me. $299 for the flange.
> 
> I think its a great price, Thats probably close to what it would cost me to buy the material and have someone cut it with a cnc machine. Let alone all the time to get the dims right.
> 
> C2 :thumbup::thumbup:


Ok. I think Im going to do this as well. Can you take measurements of the bottom opening of that m62. The only thing Im concerned with is the size of the base where this think will mount... bringing all 5 flanges to lets say a box where this thing will bolt up. Then Im worried about the even spread of forced air going to each cylinder. 

So yea just the measurements of this base:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ok. I think Im going to do this as well. Can you take measurements of the bottom opening of that m62. The only thing Im concerned with is the size of the base where this think will mount... bringing all 5 flanges to lets say a box where this thing will bolt up. Then Im worried about the even spread of forced air going to each cylinder.
> 
> So yea just the measurements of this base:


The opening is 3.93" x 4.285"

The over all width is 8.25" incliding the mounting holes, and around 22" overall length not including the pulley.

Is that what you were asking for?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

the RIGHT sc setup WILL work great. and can make power

again, we will do it if someone wishes to step up


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah sry didn't mean to start a debate. Its not really debatable as its just preference. My point was every super charger setup that isn't pretty much stock is too expensive or too much hassle to set up relative to turbo setups.

Its still a really cool concept and the low end is awesome. It basically turns your i5 into an i8 because they provide such a great linear power curve. They are fun for daily drivers and a great concept on any motor designed for them.

The screw type super chargers give AMAZING torque down low, the centrifugal i'm not a huge fan of though and would definitely take a turbo over any day. 

When I look at the inline five and think super charger, all I see is belt slip belt slip belt slip. That's the main reason I don't believe in this project. If you guys can get one to pump 15psi or so and not slip or leak all over everything, please by all means DO IT. Its about time we had a decent supercharged vw around here. The last supercharger setups I remember were on vr6 motors and basically made the R's slower in the quarter, and have yet to make more than 250whp on the gti's.

VF was going to release stage 3 and 4 super charger kits, supposedly larry had one running 450whp or something like that (prototype) but then they just kinda gave up. Never went past stage 2 and ended in broken promises.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

if it's spec'd out and built right...it can be great


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## ENRGZR (Oct 11, 2006)

Josh knows what he is doing. I really wish I had the funds, and lived in Mainland USA. It's always one or the other that stops me.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Yes those are what I was looking for. :thumbup: Another thing is going to to be pulley size, that m92 pulley would produce 19 psi on our motor at redline, blowing the stock rods most likely, The Cobalt charger is a good idea, as its a self contained oil system, so no oil plumbing, but with that comes high heat, So I would recommend one of those oval inline awics, Mldouthi if your seriously going to attempt this I will follow not too far behind, but I will most likely wait till you are at the tuning stage before I drop 1k, on just the hardware to find at some point it wont work. If it doesnt work Genesis here I come :heart:


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

aren't the supercharged MKIV R32's supposedly known for being highly unreliable? i've heard it mentioned several times that the turbo'd R is a fantastic car, but the SC'd R is a massive money pit...


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> aren't the supercharged MKIV R32's supposedly known for being highly unreliable? i've heard it mentioned several times that the turbo'd R is a fantastic car, but the SC'd R is a massive money pit...


Yea it is.

Where the other two have failed because of lack of room, all we need to figure out is the belt situation, and pulley size ~4". Now like on the Genesis they make a custom intake manifold that the outlet of the charger just bolts up to the intake manifold and the throttle body gets moved to the inlet of the charger like this:









We can move the vacuum sensor to a custom tb spacer between the charger, and tb which then should only read vacuum and no positive boost levels. Then just run one of these. If that doesnt help keep the intake temps down during a 3rd gear pull, implement in a water meth setup to the intake manifold. I know it doesnt sound normal, but the others failed because they tried to make a plumbed setup with a outlet pipe routing to a ic then to the tb in the stock location. 
They are making pretty decent power on the 3.8l Genesis running a setup similar to what I described.

Heres a vid:
I guess it makes 53tq lol


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> If it doesnt work Genesis here I come :heart:


DONT DO ITTT!!!:what: Just cause Hyundai started slapping turbos on all their engines and finally made a V8 engine doesnt mean that they are good engines. In my book, Hyundais are still junk cars even if they are faster then most of our VWs. If your gonna get ditch the Rabbit, please dont go buy a Hyundai hahaha. If you really want one tho then your not gonna listen to me, just my opinion on the matter and Im sure others are with me on that one.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tay272 said:


> DONT DO ITTT!!!:what: Just cause Hyundai started slapping turbos on all their engines and finally made a V8 engine doesnt mean that they are good engines. In my book, Hyundais are still junk cars even if they are faster then most of our VWs. If your gonna get ditch the Rabbit, please dont go buy a Hyundai hahaha. If you really want one tho then your not gonna listen to me, just my opinion on the matter and Im sure others are with me on that one.


Well the v6 is a great motor, the 2.0t is said to be better than VW's so... Idk man I test drove one last month, the Genesis 3.8 R spec, and I love it, Brembo brakes, I find alot of VW interior similarities as well. That sc kit is 5k and for two more you get rods and pistons, as well as intercooling, making over 500whp and similar tq. The stage 1 in the video above puts out 430whp, 353tq. I kinda made it my permanant ship jump car as that stanced Genesis I posted above gives me a boner


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Well thats just me, theres a few cars I will never drive or own. Hyundais being one of those. If thats your preference then by all means go for it. I just think there are much better cars out there that you should go for if your ditching the Rabbit thats all. At least stick with the Euros man, Comonnnn .


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tay272 said:


> Well thats just me, theres a few cars I will never drive or own. Hyundais being one of those. If thats your preference then by all means go for it. I just think there are much better cars out there that you should go for if your ditching the Rabbit thats all. At least stick with the Euros man, Comonnnn .


I can make this look more "Euro" than most "Euro's" I see on here! LOL Shaven, bag it, stretched wide wheels, yellow fogs, Porsche barracuda seats, that I read bolt right in the Genesis, and shave the bay. Dont worry no decision will be made untill I get to td a Golf R 

But no Id really like a CTS-V coupe :heart:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

For the ic, I was thinking more along the lines of this. But cut the ends off and weld this 9.75x35x35 core to the s/c flange. 

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=213&osCsid=abcbbc1e6d51b78604180609d5f69a27

and if that wont work, run one of these in where a normal short ram filter would go and run the filter down to the front left vent.

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=210&osCsid=abcbbc1e6d51b78604180609d5f69a27

I will start modeling this stuff up tomorrow. If anyone knows where I can get a M62 cad model that would save me a bunch of time.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I just check the space under the hood where the intake manifold is. 

Measuring from the front 2 engine cover "pegs" the left peg (as you are standing in front of the car) you have 4.5 inches above that point to the hood support. and on the right peg there is 5.5 inches to the hood sheet. 

With looking at the intake dims (11.5" {front to back} x 8" {bottom to top}). We/I will have 11.5" FB x 12" BT. and the super charger is 8.25"x 5.5". There definitely seems like room.


Anyone with more knowledge than me know if there would be a problem with welding a second pulley on to the alternator pulley? 

Something like this. (ms paint :facepalm
Blue = welded on
Red = stock alternator pulley
Black = alternator


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> For the ic, I was thinking more along the lines of this. But cut the ends off and weld this 9.75x35x35 core to the s/c flange.
> 
> http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=213&osCsid=abcbbc1e6d51b78604180609d5f69a27
> 
> ...


How are you going to mount it, and what are you going to do in terms of mating it to the intake manifold? Something similar to what was done with the Genesis SC kit? I think thats what I may do... Make a manifold with a box similar to HEP's intake manifold for the 2.0t where the tb is on the bottom, but instead the bottom is where the outlet of the charger will bolt to and flow. Then put the 2.5 tb on with a custom made tb spacer for the vacuum sensor, and then figure something out in terms of cooling


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

If we can figure this out, Im keeping the Rabbit if not, Im buying another car using the cavalier as a trade in. The Rabbit will go back to stock, and be a boring dd


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Yes this would be somewhat part of the manifold.

Let me see if I can draw something up here in paint. I will have a better rendering tomorrow when I can get to work and have a cad software to work with.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Yes this would be somewhat part of the manifold.
> 
> Let me see if I can draw something up here in paint. I will have a better rendering tomorrow when I can get to work and have a cad software to work with.


Ya if we can get this done that would be great. C2 down to do up some tuning? One of their guys is local, so if it comes down to it, we could take my car down there for tuning, or one of the UM guys is local to, incase c2 wants no part.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Pm me when you get the drawing done :thumbup: Once you have the thing mounted at least, Ill order one of the chargers I posted above, which seems to be the Cobalt SS charger.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ya if we can get this done that would be great. C2 down to do up some tuning? One of their guys is local, so if it comes down to it, we could take my car down there for tuning, or one of the UM guys is local to, incase c2 wants no part.


C2 wants to do the software, they said I wouldnt even need to take my car there, just give me a tune and provide data logs for changes.

heres my rough idea of the layout. using the core as part of the manifold. 

Runners in blue










This should fit in a 12" x 12" and im not sure on the width (left to right)
It would be great to find a 2.5" deep ic core. I cant find any water to air cores sold separate.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Intercoolers/Intercoolers.htm There you go :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Intercoolers/Intercoolers.htm There you go :thumbup:


those are air to air. 

the water to air ones have smaller holes for the water which makes them more efficient and smaller overall, and I think we need all the advantage we can get with the size of things and heat efficiency.

the only one I found sold separate is on zzperformance.com. They sell replacement core but they are 1" thick x 11 x 8 which is to wide and flat. Ideal would be 2.5 x 4 x 9. Well ideal for my theory drawing above. haha.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Runners in blue
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hm


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> those are air to air.
> 
> the water to air ones have smaller holes for the water which makes them more efficient and smaller overall, and I think we need all the advantage we can get with the size of things and heat efficiency.
> 
> the only one I found sold separate is on zzperformance.com. They sell replacement core but they are 1" thick x 11 x 8 which is to wide and flat. Ideal would be 2.5 x 4 x 9. Well ideal for my theory drawing above. haha.


Well they have two. Ive got a local guy who builds his own awics. Ill have Jeff over at HStuning see what he can do in terms of cores.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Hm




My daytime job is to fit lots of things in a small package, so hopefully I can figure this out. haha. 
And most of the time its 10 lb of s**t in a 2 lb... case. 

little work plug zargescases.com


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup: Welp this may actually work... Those other guys never really said what they were going to do interms of mounting... Looks as if the setup you did up may work. INA stage 3 oil housing replacement will open up more room if needed.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> :thumbup::thumbup: Welp this may actually work... Those other guys never really said what they were going to do interms of mounting... Looks as if the setup you did up may work. INA stage 3 oil housing replacement will open up more room if needed.


most of them were also trying to use a m90, which would be alot harder to fit. 

I terms of mounting I'm sure we can figure something out especially with the motor mounts on the right side so close. 

thanks for brainstoming with me. This is a huge help.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

nice. big props if you pull this off.

lets keep the ideas coming


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> most of them were also trying to use a m90, which would be alot harder to fit.
> 
> I terms of mounting I'm sure we can figure something out especially with the motor mounts on the right side so close.
> 
> thanks for brainstoming with me. This is a huge help.


Im gonna sell off my interior on ebay and get the charger and flange and do it too, i may do something different for cooling. Maybe use the larger hemi dbw tb


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

If we cant get it to safely mount up front, remember we have lots of room to mount it over the header between the motor and firewall... As a last resort of course :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Im gonna sell off my interior on ebay and get the charger and flange and do it too, i may do something different for cooling. Maybe use the larger hemi dbw tb


Awesome!!!

Im checking on ordering the flange tomorrow from C2.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Well, if ideas are being thrown around i might as well add something to the mix. Any reason for not putting it where the water pump is and switching the pump over to electric? Or how about where the ac pump is? and just pulling the ac system. Would make it so you could more easily run piping to a traditional air to air inter cooler.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Well, if ideas are being thrown around i might as well add something to the mix. Any reason for not putting it where the water pump is and switching the pump over to electric? Or how about where the ac pump is? and just pulling the ac system. Would make it so you could more easily run piping to a traditional air to air inter cooler.



I like ac, we still have 100 deg days here in NC.
But the water pump idea will be an option if I can fit it in the manifold area. 


Keep the ideas coming


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm gonna have a look around my engine bay tomorrow. See if i can come up with any other ideas. Id totally swap out the ac for a super charger though. Would have to come up with a way of doing the pulleys though because i think that the ac has a double pulley on it.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I'm gonna have a look around my engine bay tomorrow. See if i can come up with any other ideas. Id totally swap out the ac for a super charger though. Would have to come up with a way of doing the pulleys though because i think that the ac has a double pulley on it.


Yes it does. It runs everything.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

you can't use a "add on" pulley and belt off the alt. it will kill the bearing. you can run a longer belt and wrap the alt if you want.

we would LOVE to build a setup. i have a motor here and we can make it all. just need the customer to do it for


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> you can't use a "add on" pulley and belt off the alt. it will kill the bearing. you can run a longer belt and wrap the alt if you want.
> 
> we would LOVE to build a setup. i have a motor here and we can make it all. just need the customer to do it for


What you are looking to charge is not in my budget right now. So I will have to fumble my way through this.

Could you take a picture of the motor you have there so I can see more clearly the pulley system, to help with routing?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> What you are looking to charge is not in my budget right now. So I will have to fumble my way through this.
> 
> Could you take a picture of the motor you have there so I can see more clearly the pulley system, to help with routing?


Remember there are two different pulley setups on these motors. :thumbup:


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5463098-2.5L-basic-info

you'll find pictures of the pulley set up on this thread.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

pennsydubbin said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5463098-2.5L-basic-info
> 
> you'll find pictures of the pulley set up on this thread.


  

i still need to put more info there.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

pennsydubbin said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5463098-2.5L-basic-info
> 
> you'll find pictures of the pulley set up on this thread.




Thank you:beer:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Basically just need to replicate this with one more cylinder!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is a better 3d view of what I am thinking about.

Top









Front









Side


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Basically just need to replicate this with one more cylinder!


No i/c??


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> No i/c??


No! and this kit made an added 150hp on a D16. My thinking is chill the incoming air before the MAF or make a 2" spacer between the charger and intake manifold for DEI's Cryo2, OR a 8" barrel awic before the Maf and the crank vent bungs at the tip before the air gets chilled, and then a fabbed up cold air intake


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> No! and this kit made an added 150hp on a D16. My thinking is chill the incoming air before the MAF or make a 2" spacer between the charger and intake manifold for DEI's Cryo2, OR a 8" barrel awic before the Maf and the crank vent bungs at the tip before the air gets chilled, and then a fabbed up cold air intake


Is that an M45?


The rest of that sounds good. What would be the reason for moving the crank vent?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

By rotating the assembly I have above I can get the overall dims down to 11.88 x 11.88


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Thats what I was getting at with the Hyundai Genesis s/c video I posted on the last page. They are making 430whp running a non i/c'd Eaton setup. The stage 2 just adds watermeth, and smaller pulley, to do 500whp, and stage 3 is rods/pistons, trans, for 500+whp, still no intercooling


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Is that an M45?
> 
> 
> The rest of that sounds good. What would be the reason for moving the crank vent?


Yea I believe it is a M45. Well you have that piece to your intake between the MAF and throttle body with the bungs for ventilation, so I figured just keep that before the chilled air. Probably wont make too much of a difference where its at. But Id buy the bungs from 42dd and weld them to the end lip of the barrel Awic to clip those hoses too. Everything will be powder coated wrinkle black except the IM which will be polished.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Any thoughs on the pulley setup?

Im going crazy, Ive been looking at this belt routing my whole lunch break. 

I know NLS said that running a dual pulley would kill the bearing, but if you added a bearing or put a nicer one in then that should theoretially work, right? That is if the bearing is in the pulley itself and not the alt.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

no, any offset force on the alt will cause issue. forget about adding another pulley onto the alt pulley. also, my friends company make a AWIC core that fits on that honda sc setup. it's 1'' thick spacer that bolts inbetween the sc and manifold. cools the air by 35* so far on the 1st design


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

That would actually work pretty well, what are those running?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

ghetto picture.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I really wanna see someone set this up and get it running. Supercharger FTW if you ask me!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> ghetto picture.


Thank you!

will that give enough contact area on the alt to keep it from slipping?


Could you also let me know who I need to contact to get the other 2 dims of that IC? or if you know them. Thanks. Sounds similar to the zzperformance one, but theres is for a M90 so its wide and long.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

its a 2 sec drawing. if you set up the pulleys right, then yes.
the "new" pulley thats added will need to be on a mount fron the other oem one. space it right to wrap the sc and alt and your good.

i can find out the info on the AWIC plates from my guy( same guy that does the SAI plates for us) the setup is amazing looking and will bolt right under the honda kit sc. i'll have to find out what sc they use for sure.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Ya hell, if we get this done, c2 can produce this into a kit, since the M62 is readily available, and offer this spacer AWIC as NLS stage 2 upgrade :thumbup:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

i'll make it all if people step up.

bolt on manifold, awic and belt setup with C2 fueling and software


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## we are138 (Aug 11, 2007)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> i'll make it all if people step up.
> 
> bolt on manifold, awic and belt setup with C2 fueling and software


time frame and cost for project? i not one of those that promise to buy something and the r&d is done and whoops ... no money. i understand well made products cost money, im just looking for a ball park


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

depends on what you want.
eaton? rotrex? fmic? AWIC? etc. could be 4500-8000


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> i'll make it all if people step up.
> 
> bolt on manifold, awic and belt setup with C2 fueling and software


Not to be disrespectful, but why does someone need to step up for you to make a kit? You know people want them, and if a kit was made, just like a turbo setup, people will buy them. 

If you build it they will come 

I am happy you are even working on stuff for the 2.5 motor. This is just a question.

eace:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Prob looking a a grand here, before tuning and fueling


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

i've been around here enough, and helped other projects with other companies to know that that line is false. we have built stuff...they don't come. the just bug and bug and bug and they don't buy.

if we build a kit and its $5000 for a supercharger kit and it make 250-300whp. no one will buy it cause you can turbo for 3-4K. so we jus wasted our time and have a cool car.

plus we don't have a test car anymore as we did in the past.

we don't think a supercharger product will sell enough to over come the amount of time and money to develope it and produce it. willit be fun? yes. will it be the 1st? yes. will it sell? no, maybe a few. 

there is many examples in the past that this is true. hate to say it but companies are out there to make cool things AND make money doing it....not just to make cool things and go broke.

so if someone wants one...we will build it for them.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I think the big problem with getting a company to do the development is that then everyone has to commit to THAT setup. And if they don't want to, the company then has to offer alternatives to those who want to piece together a different kit.

For myself, I love the Eaton supers and that would my preference. I would definitely like some numbers depending on the kit type as well as what the consensus is for sc and ic selection. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> i've been around here enough, and helped other projects with other companies to know that that line is false. we have built stuff...they don't come. the just bug and bug and bug and they don't buy.
> 
> if we build a kit and its $5000 for a supercharger kit and it make 250-300whp. no one will buy it cause you can turbo for 3-4K. so we jus wasted our time and have a cool car.
> 
> ...


That makes perfect sense. 


Thank you for putting me in my place :facepalm:




Back to supercharging talk. :beer:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

not trying to "put you in your place" at all. just saying the point of what has happened in the past.

we would LOVE to just make a ton of cool cars just to do it. but money must come from somewhere and that somewhre for us and other companies is selling products and building cars for customers. 

i hope we can get something done on this...and ITB's for a 2.5L both have been in my head for 2-3 years now.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Ya true but also its not like a bunch of kits have to be made right away. Do it once, use it, advertise it on here and at local shows or sell it off, then keep the blueprints to the kit handy and list the kits forsale but put a leadway on them for however long it takes to make it and ship it out.
Its like DSM trannies being rebuilt, drop it off and there is a 3-6 month wait


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

one kit, the 1st kit could cost a companie 10K to set up and develope. if not more....then you have it for sale for 4-5k? and have no promise of making money or more kits. just can't happen.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> That makes perfect sense.
> 
> 
> Thank you for putting me in my place :facepalm:
> ...



fixed it


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> fixed it


Good point. Im starting on the s/c flange tonight.

I was trying to get the intake flange ordered today too. You hear me C2? :laugh:

@NLS 
No worries.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> one kit, the 1st kit could cost a companie 10K to set up and develope. if not more....then you have it for sale for 4-5k? and have no promise of making money or more kits. just can't happen.


Ok I see what you are saying, I dont want to argue about it, but If we get this made, and running, itll be well under 10k to set up and build, not everything needs to be over developed, tho I do understand the labor has to be compensated which adds to the cost of the kit :thumbup:

So $4500-$8000 sounds about right depending on the hardware involved.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Welp, no work is getting done tonight. Rain and I dont have any .25" plate and I think .5" is overkill.



Or should I use .5"?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Welp, no work is getting done tonight. Rain and I dont have any .25" plate and I think .5" is overkill.
> 
> 
> 
> Or should I use .5"?


What are you starting first?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> What are you starting first?


The flange for the sc. I know i need that.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> The flange for the sc. I know i need that.


Well Im doing a custom plenum similar to the HEP manifold for the 2.0t just larger internal volume. Itll have a flat bottom for the the charger to bolt to. I planned on using 3/8 aluminum plate as an adapter. 3/8 is what Id recommend :thumbup:

Im gonna start bringing my tig and all the tools Ill need up to my store with me so I can work on it in the back room! LOL. I dont plan on having this done till spring, so Im in no hurry. I want to make it look as clean as I possibly can.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Also I think Im going to shorten the supercharger intake arm a few inches. Do you plan on using the supplied bov/dv that is integrated to the charger, or weld that shut and do your own setup?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Well Im doing a custom plenum similar to the HEP manifold for the 2.0t just larger internal volume. Itll have a flat bottom for the the charger to bolt to. I planned on using 3/8 aluminum plate as an adapter. 3/8 is what Id recommend :thumbup:
> 
> Im gonna start bringing my tig and all the tools Ill need up to my store with me so I can work on it in the back room! LOL. I dont plan on having this done till spring, so Im in no hurry. I want to make it look as clean as I possibly can.



Got it. I have been looking at other setups online and they all look around 3/8. So ill have to order some of that. Where do you work? I wish I was able to work on my car at work. I either have to get there early or stay late. We mainly cut foam, so no cool tools for me to use at work. Well we do have a cnc table that has a router that is suppose to cut alum. But the table is garbage and the company that makes it cant even get it calibrated. :banghead:




kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Also I think Im going to shorten the supercharger intake arm a few inches. Do you plan on using the supplied bov/dv that is integrated to the charger, or weld that shut and do your own setup?



I am going to use the bypass valve that comes on the charger. I was thinking of maybe using a wastegate on the pressure side to regulate max pressure. But I dont know if I am going to do that yet. 

I am going to wait and see how I am going to mount/position the charger before I cut/modify the intake arm.

I will also be welding the silencer ports shut... I want to hear it whine!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Crap, Yarde metals drop zone doesnt have anything less that 6" thick plate in 6061. I hate paying for them to cut a piece of metal off.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

opcorn:



nothing-leaves-stock said:


> ghetto picture.


Even then you would need to increase the # of ribs on all the pulleys to ensure there is no belt slippage.

UM is basically using a Storm Developments design. 6 of one , half a dozen of the other. Only so many ways you can mount on a clockwise spinning rotrex in a crapped R32 engine bay.

Supercharged 2.5 20V Rabbit motor is a pipe dream and no real tuner with 5 mins invested in this market is going to sit down and develop a kit. Josh said it very well....in the end all you will have is a cool car because no one will buy a kit. If this is your hobby then by all means :thumbup: and I would love to see it done but we explored this 2 years ago using a rotrex (then using an HKS unit) on a rabbit motor. After sitting down and working out the development cost , the project was scrapped.

Reality is there are a few of you in here that are serious about tuning your motors and we dont see that # growing rapidly. The 2.5 has effectively replaced the 2.0 8V cross flow motor and that is a hard pill to swallow (even for us).

That being said turbo FTW!:laugh:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

yup!!:wave::beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f17...ng-sale-supercharger-kit-1100-off-msrp-98826/

This looks like it would work for the 2.5 motor, minus the intake manifold, and the placememt of the ic. 

But it puts the sc in the place the NLS was talking about.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f17...ng-sale-supercharger-kit-1100-off-msrp-98826/
> 
> This looks like it would work for the 2.5 motor, minus the intake manifold, and the placememt of the ic.
> 
> But it puts the sc in the place the NLS was talking about.


Ya thats the best way to set it up. Im just going to bolt it straight into the intake manifold. Im not looking for big out put, just some low end umph. Like I showed there are several kits that do not intercool and make decent gains. I will most likely look into the awic spacer Josh was talking about if I have heating issues down the road. Im not too worried about the belt slipping, as the charger pulley only spins as fast as the other pulleys, not like its adding rotational speed to the rest of the pulleys at idle. mldouthi you keeping the pulley thats included on the charger, or you going to get a slightly larger one just to be safe?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ya thats the best way to set it up. Im just going to bolt it straight into the intake manifold. Im not looking for big out put, just some low end umph. Like I showed there are several kits that do not intercool and make decent gains. I will most likely look into the awic spacer Josh was talking about if I have heating issues down the road. Im not too worried about the belt slipping, as the charger pulley only spins as fast as the other pulleys, not like its adding rotational speed to the rest of the pulleys at idle. mldouthi you keeping the pulley thats included on the charger, or you going to get a slightly larger one just to be safe?


I dont have a pulley on mine at the moment. It only has the zzp hub on it. So I was planning on either buying one of there bolt on pulleys or making my own in the size I want. I still need to do some calculations to find out what will give me the boost I want. Im thinking like 8-9 psi for now. 

If someone has already done the calculations, that would save me some work.
All I have heard from other people is use the biggest pulley I can find. haha.

4.2 is the biggest zzp pulley I can get. 

Does anyone know what the other pulley sizes are, crank, a/c?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I dont have a pulley on mine at the moment. It only has the zzp hub on it. So I was planning on either buying one of there bolt on pulleys or making my own in the size I want. I still need to do some calculations to find out what will give me the boost I want. Im thinking like 8-9 psi for now.
> 
> If someone has already done the calculations, that would save me some work.
> All I have heard from other people is use the biggest pulley I can find. haha.
> ...


Well Im using a 4" pulley to ensure I can safely get it running, and then after tuned, and putting a few miles on it to check reliability, start to go smaller. Once there are a full set of lightened pulleys and tensioners for us, we can probably keep the 4" pulley and make a few extra ponies. As we will need a new shorter belt each size we go down  Im currently looking for a cheap damaged spare head that I can build this off of. If I had a way to get my spare motor up to where Im at, I could just build it on that, but its 2hrs away, and I dont have a truck to go get it.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

So you take measurements of each pulley divide crank by s/c pulley to get ratio, then multiply the ratio by engine redline to comare with supercharger manufacture listed charger redline, and lower/raise pulley size by that.
If we can get the circumferance of the crank and s/c pulley we can do the equation. So far this is all I can fill out :thumbup:

Crank Pulley Circumferance = xxx
S/C Pulley Circumferance = xxx
Ratio = xxxx

@ 6200 rpm = xxxx S/C rpm 

*Then you take s/c rpm multiply it by .03531 to get CFM*
M62 supercharger output capacity = 1 L/ rpm = 14300 L (LPM*.03531 = CFM) = ~454 CFM of air 

2.5 engine can inhale 271 CFM of air (*151.33* cubic inches*6200RPM/3464) 

Excess air = 454 – 271 = 183 “boosted” CFM 

Boost = excess CFM / normal CFM * atmospheric pressure 
183 / 271 * 14.7 = 9.93 so ~10 pounds boost *This was done using a 2.3 ratio made up from 6200rpm divided by the supplied 14300 rpm charger speed given already*

To do it right we need crank circumferance as well as s/c pulley. BUT if you can get a 2.3 ratio you will get the boost levels you are looking for.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

What do the green numbers represent in this map, I thought it was rpm. But it doesnt seen to correspond to this map.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Idk I went to a Cobalt forum where obviously they will know more about the charger than us, and the 14,000 rpm s/c redline is what they say is max for the stock pulley. Without the circumferance of the crank I cant realisticaly come up with a suggested s/c pulley size.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Idk I went to a Cobalt forum where obviously they will know more about the charger than us, and the 14,000 rpm s/c redline is what they say is max for the stock pulley. Without the circumferance of the crank I cant realisticaly come up with a suggested s/c pulley size.


The data that you showed makes sense with the second map, which is the one on eatons website. but not with the first. I was just curious.

Is the stock s/c pulley 4 inches?

Ill get out the calipers later tonight and see if I can get some dims of the pulleys. I also asked ECS what there lightweight pulley diameter was (the standard, not the underdrive). Maybe ill get an answer there.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> The data that you showed makes sense with the second map, which is the one on eatons website. but not with the first. I was just curious.
> 
> Is the stock s/c pulley 4 inches?
> 
> Ill get out the calipers later tonight and see if I can get some dims of the pulleys. I also asked ECS what there lightweight pulley diameter was (the standard, not the underdrive). Maybe ill get an answer there.


If you can get a ratio of 2.3 itll be just right, so if ECS gets back with that info it'll tell us exactly what size pulley we need to achieve 10 psi


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

ECS


> Diameter of the stock and the lightweight pulley are the same. Our ECS lightweight crank pulley is 70% lighter than stock, that is where the extra throttle response and horsepower is made!


Dumb, that didnt help.


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

mldouthi said:


> ECS
> 
> Dumb, that didnt help.


Ha!!

opcorn:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> ECS
> 
> Dumb, that didnt help.


If the 2.5 and 2.0t have the same diameter crank pulley, I have a 2.0t motor sitting on a tire next door. Ill ask pensy to see if he can maybe measure the diameter of his.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I just measured but I only have 6 inch calipers. but I measured to the from outside of the belt to the inside of that metal ring on the outside. and then the width of that outside ring, if that makes sense. So from outside to outside with the belt is around 6.6 in. And the ac comp. is 5.195in including the belt.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I forgot to measure the inside pulley that drives all the accessories. :banghead:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

The inside pulley on the ac comp, is 4.575in.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Can someone with this manifold please give these measurements, I just want to know how wide the plenum is and the distance between the plenum and flange


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I'll get those for you tomorrow. I don't have any way to measure it at my apartment right now but will when I'm at the garage tomorrow. If I see my neighbor tonight I'll borrow his tools, but otherwise I'll just get em later.

You do realize this intake tapers down though. I don't really want to supply that radius or dimensions to that degree. Don't want to tick anyone off. I don't see any harm in giving you the max depth of those two dimensions though. Did you also need that third dimension you marked on the TB side or is that just a mistake in the drawing? Not really sure how to reference that dimension on the TB side you marked actually. If you want to clarify that would be great.

Why don't you guys pay someone to draft something up for you in inventor or pro e? :wave: Does anyone have a template available for the 2.5 MKV bay, intake side to radiator support? Watermark it and send it to [email protected], promise not to give to anyone else.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

No its not a mistake. I know it tapers so thats why I included the throttle body side as a measurement. Its the widest part. Also just a rough measurement from the plenum to the flange. I think Im going to need shorter runners


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I vote ultra budget build, cut the stock intake, bond silicone couplers to the runners, build slip on runners w/clamps, screw the IC, see if you can crack the nylon runners/flange. 

SUPER GHETTO but it would work until the intake runners melted.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> I'll get those for you tomorrow. I don't have any way to measure it at my apartment right now but will when I'm at the garage tomorrow. If I see my neighbor tonight I'll borrow his tools, but otherwise I'll just get em later.
> 
> You do realize this intake tapers down though. I don't really want to supply that radius or dimensions to that degree. Don't want to tick anyone off. I don't see any harm in giving you the max depth of those two dimensions though. Did you also need that third dimension you marked on the TB side or is that just a mistake in the drawing? Not really sure how to reference that dimension on the TB side you marked actually. If you want to clarify that would be great.
> 
> Why don't you guys pay someone to draft something up for you in inventor or pro e? :wave: Does anyone have a template available for the 2.5 MKV bay, intake side to radiator support? Watermark it and send it to [email protected], promise not to give to anyone else.



Ill second that. I want a model of the engine bay as well. Although I am stuck using crappy CoCreate. Ill be getting a copy of solidworks soon, 10000X better.




tchilds said:


> I vote ultra budget build, cut the stock intake, bond silicone couplers to the runners, build slip on runners w/clamps, screw the IC, see if you can crack the nylon runners/flange.
> 
> SUPER GHETTO but it would work until the intake runners melted.


I would love to see that.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> I vote ultra budget build, cut the stock intake, bond silicone couplers to the runners, build slip on runners w/clamps, screw the IC, see if you can crack the nylon runners/flange.
> 
> SUPER GHETTO but it would work until the intake runners melted.


Lol no thanks. That plastic wont hold under the chargers weight!


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Meh sure it would. You have a support bracket to use unless you remove it beneath the intake manifold. Oddly enough I can't remember how it is configured but I do remember it was there!

A nylon flange w/silicone couplers that has runners slip on over it would be pretty solid I think. It also has the thermal advantages over metal to metal to metal to metal.... to metal... hehe I really don't like super chargers for how much heat they produce though so no idea if this would work. It would be cool having a modular design too, w/dif runner lengths which you could incorporate.

Welding is easier though and that $300 ain't a bad price at all. The oval runners going to be a pita though. :banghead:


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Im considering jumping ship from the Rabbit to the 3.6l Genesis, and putting a blower on it.
> 
> Idk to me this just looks soo much better than a Mkv and puts down 301whp stock, with header, exhaust, tune and larger tb 360whp, and a company makes a 5k$ blower kit that makes over 500whp and it sounds mean as hell


The Hyundai Genesis is the best performance bargain right now. The GTI is a more complete car for the price and a nicer place to be, but it cant match the Genesis's performance. A Lancer Ralliart is 4 grand more expensive so that's out. A MS3 is more powerful but then again it is FWD....and underneath the big turbo it's just a Mazda3 underneath.

However all that being said, the base Hyundai Genesis 2.0T R-spec is the better tuner car rather than the V6. The base which is now called the R-spec is lighter and stripped out which is what you want because honestly who gives a frack how many speakers your car has, or if the seats are heated, or if they are leather? None of that has anything to do with performance. And the 2.0T is not the crummy turbo from the Sonata Turbo/Kia Optima Turbo. It's the 2.0T MiVEC engine from the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart which is internally the same as the Lancer Evo's. So right out of the box you already have a HUGE tuning potential. But it's a coupe so it's sexier than the Evo. And it's RWD not 4WD which is what you really want. Go for it man. I can't join you because I've modified my Rabbit beyond the point of no return. I couldnt sell it even if I wanted to.

My choice if my situation were different; I had no car and had to buy one? Get a used 2010 Nissan 370Z with sport package for around 27grand :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> The oval runners going to be a pita though. :banghead:


I have been racking my brain over this one... how to match up those ovals????


My C2 flange should be here monday though


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Heres a little different design. I am really going to need to take the intake manifold off and see Where the sc can be placed, in regards to the pulley hitting other things.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Honestly, for the oval runners. I wouldn't be satisfied unless I modeled and benched a ton of different collectors/stack designs. The cylinder head has some funky stuff going on too. Either way its going to stuff air in the cylinders but you could easily gain or lose a good 40 horsepower because of these stupid ovals. They're a really superior design but a pita to work around unless you want to pay a machine shop like $2,000.

The other SRI's have cut corners in this respect though so I don't see any reason yours has to be over engineered either.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

What are you guys thoughts on runner lenghts and plenum volume?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I have been racking my brain over this one... how to match up those ovals????
> 
> 
> My C2 flange should be here monday though


I bought my plenum, runners, and fuel rail, plus bits from here. Always have for the things I need oval tubing from http://rossmachineracing.com/


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Heres a little different design. I am really going to need to take the intake manifold off and see Where the sc can be placed, in regards to the pulley hitting other things.


I think this is a little too big to work. Everything hangs down to low, for the alternator where its at. Which is why Im making a manifold similar to your shape, but the ends are going to be rolled so the air flows smooth. Then Im just gonna bolt the charger to the manifold like the Jackson Racing Honda kit, and inquire the spacer awic Josh was talking about if I have cooling issues, or Ill just make a 1" spacer and drill the sides and slip copper nozzles in and run DEI's Cryo2 kit on a electronic management to spray as needed when temps get up a bit


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

_V-Dubber_ said:


> The Hyundai Genesis is the best performance bargain right now. The GTI is a more complete car for the price and a nicer place to be, but it cant match the Genesis's performance. A Lancer Ralliart is 4 grand more expensive so that's out. A MS3 is more powerful but then again it is FWD....and underneath the big turbo it's just a Mazda3 underneath.
> 
> However all that being said, the base Hyundai Genesis 2.0T R-spec is the better tuner car rather than the V6. The base which is now called the R-spec is lighter and stripped out which is what you want because honestly who gives a frack how many speakers your car has, or if the seats are heated, or if they are leather? None of that has anything to do with performance. And the 2.0T is not the crummy turbo from the Sonata Turbo/Kia Optima Turbo. It's the 2.0T MiVEC engine from the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart which is internally the same as the Lancer Evo's. So right out of the box you already have a HUGE tuning potential. But it's a coupe so it's sexier than the Evo. And it's RWD not 4WD which is what you really want. Go for it man. I can't join you because I've modified my Rabbit beyond the point of no return. I couldnt sell it even if I wanted to.
> 
> My choice if my situation were different; I had no car and had to buy one? Get a used 2010 Nissan 370Z with sport package for around 27grand :thumbup:


Yea, I love this car. I will only get the v6 tho, and supercharge it. I hate the 370z, the Genesis I showed is sexy as hell, but Id get in blue, with CCW Classics 12" rear 10" front, and slam it on Ksports. I have heard the 2.0t is the MIVEC 2.0t which is why I said that its a better motor than VW's 2.0t. My brother has a MS3 and to put it simple its a piece of sh*t to drive, plus it looks like a minivan. The v6 Genesis makes almost an extra 100hp with a tune, headers, and free flowing exhaust(how Hyundai restricted the car), and an intake, or you can leave stock, s/c it and tune it for 430whp, intercool and rods for 500+


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I think this is a little too big to work. Everything hangs down to low, for the alternator where its at. Which is why Im making a manifold similar to your shape, but the ends are going to be rolled so the air flows smooth. Then Im just gonna bolt the charger to the manifold like the Jackson Racing Honda kit, and inquire the spacer awic Josh was talking about if I have cooling issues, or Ill just make a 1" spacer and drill the sides and slip copper nozzles in and run DEI's Cryo2 kit on a electronic management to spray as needed when temps get up a bit


This whole system is 11.8 front to back and 12 top to bottom. It is actually rotated a bit. So if you look at the 3rd picture and rotate it about 15 deg ccw. Thats how I was thinking of putting it. 



Thanks btw on the oval tubing!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> This whole system is 11.8 front to back and 12 top to bottom. It is actually rotated a bit. So if you look at the 3rd picture and rotate it about 15 deg ccw. Thats how I was thinking of putting it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks btw on the oval tubing!


So you are going to mount the throttle body on the super charger as well?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> So you are going to mount the throttle body on the super charger as well?


Im not sure yet. I want to be able to utilise my sri so I dont have to add all those fitting to another pipe. It doesnt have to be in the same place. I just would like to run the same parts. 

I will probably just make an adaptor plate that angles the sri in the correst direction and allows the stock tb to bolt up.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Just had another thought to help out with the belt wrap on the alt. Since the top mount is just a threw bolt, just make a stepped adaptor that would rock the alt forward about an inch. All that would need to be moved is a coolant line, and that could be fixed no problem either.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Now I was thinking of 

1)shortening the intake arm on the supercharger 3" and mount the throttle body there and have a closed intake mani plenum, with maybe a tial wg on top just incase. 
The other option we came up with was:
2) mount the s/c with the outlet pointing down with a ic adapter pointing toward the driver side fender and route the plubing to a awic in the factory battery location then to the tb on the side of the intake mani. Then just use that arm as an open intake routed down to the driver side lower grille with a filter. Do an filter housing relocate, and put both oil cooler and awic heat exchangers behind the lower center grille.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Just had another thought to help out with the belt wrap on the alt. Since the top mount is just a threw bolt, just make a stepped adaptor that would rock the alt forward about an inch. All that would need to be moved is a coolant line, and that could be fixed no problem either.


That would work :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Now I was thinking of
> 
> 1)shortening the intake arm on the supercharger 3" and mount the throttle body there and have a closed intake mani plenum, with maybe a tial wg on top just incase.
> The other option we came up with was:
> 2) mount the s/c with the outlet pointing down with a ic adapter pointing toward the driver side fender and route the plubing to a awic in the factory battery location then to the tb on the side of the intake mani. Then just use that arm as an open intake routed down to the driver side lower grille with a filter. Do an filter housing relocate, and put both oil cooler and awic heat exchangers behind the lower center grille.


Im not sure I understand what you are talking about with an open intake verus a closed. and in the second solution will you be pressurizing before the tb?

I thought about putting the awic in the battery location as well. :thumbup:


I just did the calulations off the dims I got and with a 4 inch sc pulley that would put us at around 11000 rpm.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Im not sure I understand what you are talking about with an open intake verus a closed. and in the second solution will you be pressurizing before the tb?
> 
> I thought about putting the awic in the battery location as well. :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Oh lol closed intake manifold meaning the throttle body is on the s/c, open intake manifold as in throttle body is on the intake manifold. The second soulution is essentially the same as running a turbo outlet routed to throttle body with a awic inbetween :thumbup:

There is a Ferrari turbo kit that includes billet intake manifold, using barrel awics with the BOV's on the side of the intake mani. The idea was, not enough room to implement them before the manifold, so incorporate them into the mani, math is involved in our situation, which Im looking for a formula :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Heres idea 2 in a terrible mspaint attempt :laugh:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

OR


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

i think these deisgns will be faulted when you try to install them. they look like they all take up way too much room.

if i were to make one and use a eaton.... i'd make the flange for the charger vertical will the head.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> i think these deisgns will be faulted when you try to install them. they look like they all take up way too much room.
> 
> if i were to make one and use a eaton.... i'd make the flange for the charger vertical will the head.


Thats kinda my point with the designs. The best thing to do is bolt the thing to the intake manifold and do watermeth, or some other form of spray cooling, which I dont really think is needed for in my case a show car.

Ive been telling the shop thats helping me with ideas, this is the simplest solution:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> i think these deisgns will be faulted when you try to install them. they look like they all take up way too much room.
> 
> if i were to make one and use a eaton.... i'd make the flange for the charger vertical will the head.


I think the one with the awic in the battery location is the most feasible other than running no cooler like Kevin said. 

Just to clarify, do you mean parallel to the head? Or am I misunderstanding you?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Unless we can figure out a way to utilize the few inches we have above the valve cover, which I have a flat surface. So maybe a vr6 type manifold with built in awic like the new HPA special edition intake manifold. Let me make that image.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

ghetto ms paint


top view









belt view


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## Stg3G60 (Apr 7, 2008)

Cant wait to see when you guys get this all together and running. Super stoked about this! If you ask me, SC is way cooler than a turbo. If i had the money, and didnt need my warranty, I would have already ponied up for NLS to build it for me. Good luck :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Ok, HPA has a intak manifold that has a water intercooler built in. What if we did something like this









Then we'd just need to run one pipe around up to the throttle body or we can move the throttle body to the s/c arm and do a cai off that.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Is there space to mount the sc under the intake mani? that way you could make a bigger plenum with an awic built in. Is that what you meant by your last pic?

Also, if you are mounting the sc there couldn't you run it to a regular intercooler mounted in the front bumper and have it come back up to the intake mani? Like a turbo setup.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Is there space to mount the sc under the intake mani? that way you could make a bigger plenum with an awic built in. Is that what you meant by your last pic?
> 
> Also, if you are mounting the sc there couldn't you run it to a regular intercooler mounted in the front bumper and have it come back up to the intake mani? Like a turbo setup.


Yes you have to mount it under the intake manifold. That HPA mani has a built in awic. One pipe from outlet adapter to the manifold and bam cooling done, keep the battery in the bay, run that pipe under the car. Then you would just need to decide how you are going to route the throttle body.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

i just built a twin AWIC intake manifold....its a ton of work and money...
i don't think its the best way to go like you posted...

build what i just ghetto ms'd up. and add the AWIC core my friends make and be done. plain, simple, cheapest, yadda yadda. don't over engineer it


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> i just built a twin AWIC intake manifold....its a ton of work and money...
> i don't think its the best way to go like you posted...
> 
> build what i just ghetto ms'd up. and add the AWIC core my friends make and be done. plain, simple, cheapest, yadda yadda. don't over engineer it


Thats what IM doing. It seems Mld is looking to build a technical setup. Can you get pics of his product, Im very interested.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Thats what IM doing. It seems Mld is looking to build a technical setup. Can you get pics of his product, Im very interested.


I guess, Im also not worried about having to cut into my hood and add some type of hump to have cooler air going into the motor. So I have a little more height to play with.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I guess, Im also not worried about having to cut into my hood and add some type of hump to have cooler air going into the motor. So I have a little more height to play with.


See if I could figure out something cool to do as a cut in the hood, Id do it. Like raise the front and have a vent behind it like this


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

At work now. Getting measurements on way home. Super slammed today.

I don't like top mount IC. Way too much heat soak unless its a fancy polymer which is expensive as heck to fabricate. I think running a drive shaft to the belt and just mounting the super charger where the battery is would work best.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

tchilds said:


> At work now. Getting measurements on way home. Super slammed today.
> 
> I don't like top mount IC. Way too much heat soak unless its a fancy polymer which is expensive as heck to fabricate. I think running a drive shaft to the belt and just mounting the super charger where the battery is would work best.


Good idea, definitely doesn't look as cool as mounted straight to the intake mani though. lol


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> At work now. Getting measurements on way home. Super slammed today.
> 
> I don't like top mount IC. Way too much heat soak unless its a fancy polymer which is expensive as heck to fabricate. I think running a drive shaft to the belt and just mounting the super charger where the battery is would work best.


As for the heatsoak, HPA swears by that design.

I think like I originally said this is the only feasable way without getting crazy expensive, and labor extensive.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> As for the heatsoak, HPA swears by that design.
> 
> I think like I originally said this is the only feasable way without getting crazy expensive, and labor extensive.


That is the way i would want to do it as well. Looks cool, functional and relatively easy. Provided you have the space. Awics make me a little nervous though. I suppose you could run a separate temp sensor on it to make it a little less unnerving.

Out of curiosity how do you plan on making sure each cylinder gets an even amount of flow?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I think coming up from the bottom and the velocity stacks inside, will take care of even flow. Look at the 2.0t the throttle body is on the bottom and the pressurized airflow spreads just fine on those.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Sounds like that would work, might want to put in some sort of air splitter for the middle cylinder if you are able to mount the sc right in the middle of the plenum. How big are you planning on making the plenum? you probably want like 2-3 liters. I have no idea what the calculations would be for that.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here are some formulas taken from team-integra.net for intake manifolds and runners



> 1. / One Formula: David Vizard's Rule for IM Runner Length
> 
> The general rule is that you should begin with a runner length of 17.8 cm for a 10,000 rpm peak torque location, from the intake opening to the plenum chamber. You add 4.3 cm to the runner length for every 1000 rpm that you want the peak torque to occur before the 10,000 rpm.
> 
> ...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

From what I have read on many sites is that the intake plenum size should be 1.25 to 1.5 times the engine displacement. Therefore we will be looking at a 3.125L to 3.75L plenum.



As for the runner lenghts, There seems to be lots of factors that I dont know.


Here is a library of calculations 
http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

The whole runner length thing is no big deal. The problem is we dont have all the room in the world to have longer runners. Im gonna follow the stock length and plenum volume, with a flat bottom for me to bolt the charger up. Im getting less convinced this is going to work, with the alternator being left where it is at. Problem is, for ideal fitment with this charger above the alternator, the top of the plenum will be above the core support meaning the hood will not close... Soo Im still gonna go along with the project and if there needs to be some sort of hood modification, Ill deal with that when the time comes. May have a VW emblem made to weld on and portrude it through the hood. Just figured Id put this out there :thumbup:


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## MJettO (Oct 19, 2009)

*Rotrex Supercharger*

fwiw www.rotrex.com makes some compact SC's with a handful of R32's. 10 cars total with their system.


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## Carlicious-Parts (Mar 19, 2011)

why so complicated  try this here http://www.carlicious-parts.com/epages/62028049.sf/en_US/?ViewObjectID=5222166

fitting the supercharger to newer 2,5 5cyl should be no problem at all


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

um, yea, NONE of those will fit or come close.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Look how this intercooler is plumbed. I actually like this idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTCrqcAmCBs

Kevin said the old SC's failed because they were plumbed too much but this thing has the shortest plumbing ever.


If we can retrofit the new AUDI electronic oil level guages it would buy us another inch of room. Does the TTRS have electronic oil gauges now? I'm pretty sure they do :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> Look how this intercooler is plumbed. I actually like this idea
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTCrqcAmCBs
> 
> ...


Nothing like running hot air through an intercooler :laugh:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm just saying, maybe a different radiator is a really good idea to make everything fit easily. A lot easier to mount a new radiator than it is to make it fit with what we currently have. I like this idea the best so far as I'd rather pay for a sweet new rad than a bunch of piping or AWIC setup. Top mounts are going to heatsoak too, don't care what anyone says. We don't have the ability to build with materials that are good for top mounting high HP applications. If you tell someone they need $700 rad or $700 piping, well its about the same in the end isn't it?

We have room for a charger, don't want long plumbing, and don't know where to fit an intercooler... so why not? This would be way easier to fabricate too. Next easiest way would be side mount where the battery is located, but why not just drop it down if you've gone that far with it?

Just saying, if I got a VW that is fast off the line, heatsoak is the last thing I want diminishing that effort.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I already have a Mishimoto radiator. It does not directly fit, and gives no extra room at all. A new radiator is not the answer, as you still need fans. If we can delete the ac and lower the alternator, we can fit any twin screw of our choice. 

And yea none of those shown s/c's that everyone who has used hates to death will bolt up without tons of cash. Im building the intake manifold to reasonable n/a specs, so I can just use it as an oem replacement, or sell it if this project doesnt work out


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I already have a Mishimoto radiator. It does not directly fit, and gives no extra room at all. A new radiator is not the answer, as you still need fans. If we can delete the ac and lower the alternator, we can fit any twin screw of our choice.
> 
> And yea none of those shown s/c's that everyone who has used hates to death will bolt up without tons of cash. Im building the intake manifold to reasonable n/a specs, so I can just use it as an oem replacement, or sell it if this project doesnt work out



You need A fan, the other fan is for running AC which you could delete if you only ran AC on the highway. Which is pretty much what I do anyway.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> Look how this intercooler is plumbed. I actually like this idea
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTCrqcAmCBs
> 
> ...


No, what I said was the designs I came up with, which were logical reasonable designs to include a AWIC are too bulky to work, as we dont have the room. There are other ways of cooling the air comming out of the s/c. The other s/c attempts however, failed because they were trying to use the larger bulky m90 s/c that just wont work once again without tons of cash. The m62 is perfect for around 240-260hp, which is honestly more than Im looking for. I just want something nobody else has, and since a s/c is something that you have to shell out 4-8k if you want it, but I can build it myself which gives me the satisfaction of following through with this :thumbup:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Ah I got ya. I was thinking like 500hp setups.

Well I like your meth/e85 idea w/non intercooled. That would easily meet your expectations and then some I would think.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> You need A fan, the other fan is for running AC which you could delete if you only ran AC on the highway. Which is pretty much what I do anyway.


Once again tho, this is crossing the line of over developement. Itll fit with my final design of just simply bolting the charger up to the manifold and using one of Josh's buddies AWIC spacers, the only possible flaw is the AWIC spacer dropping it to the point where the alternator will have to be moved, which would suck, but like I said there are other simpler ways to cool that air... Or just comvert to e85


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> Ah I got ya. I was thinking like 500hp setups.
> 
> Well I like your meth/e85 idea w/non intercooled. That would easily meet your expectations and then some I would think.


Yea I dont think the m62 will make that much power without major work to the charger, let alone in our space limited application.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Yea I dont think the m62 will make that much power without major work to the charger, let alone in our space limited application.


That is my goal as well, somewhere around 250hp.

There is another guy in my area that would also like to s/c his 2.5 but wont be able to start working on it until christmas. Which sounds like its right in line with both of us as well. haha. 

This is definitely possible and will get done, either with or without and ic. I will keep working on the ic design and if I cant figure out a way for it to work, then I will go with your approach. 

Short stack ic setup for M90
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=145&catid=139

Here is the replacement core, only 1/2 inch thick. I think they said the other dims were 11 x 8
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=363&catid=139


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

tchilds said:


> Ah I got ya. I was thinking like 500hp setups.
> 
> Well I like your meth/e85 idea w/non intercooled. That would easily meet your expectations and then some I would think.


never rely completely on something that can run out.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I totally agree. However, you can also rely on common sense in this case. Nitrous setups have the same downfalls, one little solenoid goes and BOOM goes the motor. If I was doing a 240-260hp setup it would be on nitrous. So I really understand, to save money you get less margin of error but if its a stock motor what are you really risking?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Here is the replacement core, only 1/2 inch thick. I think they said the other dims were 11 x 8
> http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=363&catid=139


Weld plate on all 4 corners and sandwich it between the charger and intake manifold


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Weld plate on all 4 corners and sandwich it between the charger and intake manifold


Thats what I was thinking.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

thats just a factory old heater core from a chevy...i wouldn't weld onto it. that and they are super over priced :laugh:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

The solder really won't hold up to the corner welds? Why you gotta make this so hard :banghead: Well i'm off to the garage again. Will actually grab those measurements for ya this time if you still need them. I would just go from cylinder head to dipstick, that's pretty much what you're asking for.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

solder? you mean how the join the factory heater core junk together?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> thats just a factory old heater core from a chevy...i wouldn't weld onto it. that and they are super over priced :laugh:


Well than hit me up with more info on that piece your buddy makes, lol. So I can atleast get the picture of how to maybe use it :thumbup:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

yeh whatever that stuff is.

Why wouldn't you use that core? Other than the price/source you mentioned. What is wrong with the welding plates on?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

If it comes down to it, Ill mount it on top of the intake manifold, and run hoodless


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

just trust me and DON'T weld onto a heater core:banghead:
but if you must have reasons.
-too thin of metal
-crap stamped metal.
-they leak from factory
-its not ment for that use.
-they over priced them
-solder joints- can't weld the joint.
need more?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> Sure Ill get the info on the Honda AWIC plate my buddy makes :thumbup:


opcorn:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

email was sent to him for info....


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> email was sent to him for info....


Thanks, that piece is going to be a HUGE plus if it'll work :thumbup:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

it will...its menat for it. and they build insanely quaility parts


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> it will...its menat for it. and they build insanely quaility parts


:thumbup::thumbup:

Now what if we mounted it just like the Ions have it? The Ion looks to have less space and well it works


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

finally....
thats how i've said to do it thw hole time. no crazy piping and manifold and goofy awic or fmic setup...just head>mainfold>awic or not>charger....DONE


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> finally....
> thats how i've said to do it thw hole time. no crazy piping and manifold and goofy awic or fmic setup...just head>mainfold>awic or not>charger....DONE


Well its along my idea just I was going to mount it on the bottom of the intake manifold so I can have a larger plenum, but the more I look at this, Im going to go over to the Saturn dealer and take some detailed pics of what I need. I think this is the answer for my goals.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

i think once you'd start building "your idea" it wouldn' fit.
i think if your using a easton...this setup is the only way. i've had a bunch of 2.5's apart, thinking, fitting, building, dynoing etc.....i don't think theres room for a bottom mount system.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Got some interesting pics for how Chevy did the oem cooling.

They use the long tube cores with cover 









Some more pics of the ss mani:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> i think once you'd start building "your idea" it wouldn' fit.
> i think if your using a easton...this setup is the only way. i've had a bunch of 2.5's apart, thinking, fitting, building, dynoing etc.....i don't think theres room for a bottom mount system.


Yes I had the intake manifold out this morning and no my under mount idea like the Honda s/c kit probably wouldnt fit. Now that honda kit would fit as an undermount, but then the alternator would need to be moved. I think front mount is what we should do. Gonna be a million times easier too!lol


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

not to rub it in

but i completely agree

Btw the deepest part of the HEP SRI is 5.55" +/- 0.05 as far as the best measurement I could obtain with it actually mounted up. There is a very odd radius to this thing that I'm sure is key in their design too, which makes the other measurement you wanted kinda of pointless. The dimension isn't really obtainable w/out a radius which I don't want to supply to anyone for fear of the wrath. 

The runner length is roughly 4.5"

If you need any more length height or depth dimensions let me know. And no I'm not going to supply their radius in a round about way either :laugh:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

No problem thanks for the runner length tho. Just gonna go off the oem specs to keep the space between that and core support as much as possible for the charger to fit.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Belt setup on the Ecotec


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

like this page and look at his stuff. this is the AWIC sc setup and the guy that does all my machine work.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Innovative-Motorsports-Technologies-LLC/103186519781051


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow, that looks sweet!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Hm that looks like a cool concept. Shorten the runners .5" and your golden with this spacer. Thing is can he make it to fit the m62?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

they make it for THAT charger setup. because honda guys buy things for thier cars. so the guys with the SC kit will buy this setup to intercool it. nothing needs to change for them.


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## 2tnicrbbt (Jun 27, 2010)

in for any results. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> because honda guys *STEAL* things for thier cars..


FTFY :laugh: Welp does he have a website? I dont have facebook.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

2tnicrbbt said:


> in for any results. :thumbup:


You'll get mine in about 4-5 months. :thumbup:


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## 2tnicrbbt (Jun 27, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> You'll get mine in about 4-5 months. :thumbup:


 cant wait.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

2tnicrbbt said:


> cant wait.


I have to buy a new welder  My f*cking tig is shot  I knew its time was comming, so now Ill drop on a new Lincoln 225


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Sorry for the cell phone pic, but look what came in the mail today.











I would also like to hear if that company has a real website, and what there prices are.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

FYI the rossmachineracing oval tubing is to big for the C2 flange.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> FYI the rossmachineracing oval tubing is to big for the C2 flange.


Really, any word on where to get some? I used their oval tubing with this and it fit...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Really, any word on where to get some? I used their oval tubing with this and it fit...


its off .18" up and down and .175" in the other direction.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> its off .18" up and down and .175" in the other direction.


Is it too big or too small? What does c2 recommend? I may have to have another one of the plate flanges made then. I wanted to try c2's flange because it saves lots of work with the bungs, but...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Is it too big or too small? What does c2 recommend? I may have to have another one of the plate flanges made then. I wanted to try c2's flange because it saves lots of work with the bungs, but...


The C2 flange is small.

C2 uses there own 2 piece sections. and weld a seam up the middle.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> The C2 flange is small.
> 
> C2 uses there own 2 piece sections. and weld a seam up the middle.


Maybe Ill shoot them an email and see if they can just make me the intake manifold, with both ends domed, and just make the adapter plate for the charger, and cutout the square... Or just see if they can sell me the runner half pieces


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Maybe Ill shoot them an email and see if they can just make me the intake manifold, with both ends domed, and just make the adapter plate for the charger, and cutout the square... Or just see if they can sell me the runner half pieces


Yeah, Let me know what they say about the runner pieces. I was hoping the ross ones would work.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Maybe Ill shoot them an email and see if they can just make me the intake manifold, with both ends domed, and just make the adapter plate for the charger, and cutout the square... Or just see if they can sell me the runner half pieces


That's what i would do but if not you could still use the other stuff and section it.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

So there is no possible way to use the rmr the way they are? I just got off the phone with a guy who makes intake and turbo manifolds, as well as awics. He uses rmr tubing, buys it by the pole, but he said rmr tubing is usually port matched on most of the things hes built...

If its only off that much sectioning it and welding it would be a pita to get right. Hes checking on maybe a smaller size, but the rmr oval tubing is for the most part universal


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Keep us updated on what they say about the tubing.

Also here are some small awic cores if you wanted to make a custom one similar to the honda one above.

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/_pages/lachart125.html


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Keep us updated on what they say about the tubing.
> 
> Also here are some small awic cores if you wanted to make a custom one similar to the honda one above.
> 
> http://www.bellintercoolers.com/_pages/lachart125.html


The guy called me back. As far as he knows the rmr tube dims are the norm. so any smaller would be custom. I may just match the ports as good as I can and weld it, then use a dremmel to smooth out the bore if Im left with no other choice. Ill send c2 and email when I get a chance. We'd need 10 half runners correct?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> The guy called me back. As far as he knows the rmr tube dims are the norm. so any smaller would be custom. I may just match the ports as good as I can and weld it, then use a dremmel to smooth out the bore if Im left with no other choice. Ill send c2 and email when I get a chance. We'd need 10 half runners correct?


Yes, and I believe they have a slight curve to them as well.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Yep they're curved


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I just sent chris an email


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I just found out eurojet disapeared... Anyway hopefully we can buy the runners, Im gonna place an order for the flange next week. The velocity stacks rmr sells should still work.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I just found out eurojet disapeared... Anyway hopefully we can buy the runners, Im gonna place an order for the flange next week. The velocity stacks rmr sells should still work.


Is that who makes the stuff for C2?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

How long are you thinking for the runners?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Is that who makes the stuff for C2?


No they make exhausts and the valve cover me and thygreyt have. I guess their facebook, website, phone# and emails are gone


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> How long are you thinking for the runners?


The one kid said his were 4.5" so probably 4" so Ill have extra space for that intercooler spacer Josh's buddy makes. Now we just need to figure out the belt situation as well as an extra tensioner. Also which size pulley to start out with.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> The one kid said his were 4.5" so probably 4" so Ill have extra space for that intercooler spacer Josh's buddy makes. Now we just need to figure out the belt situation as well as an extra tensioner. Also which size pulley to start out with.


Are you thinking about running the s/c on the front? How will there be room for a plenum?
Or are you running it upsidedown and up to the plenum?


Did anyone ever get any better measurements of the pulleys?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> . I guess their facebook, website, phone# and emails are gone


where'd EJ go? there's nothing online anymore!? no FB, no website, nothing.....


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

we don't know. its just came up the other day in a thread when someone mentioned EJ.

how are you going to mount this SC, and stuff? and yes the runners are about 4.5" on other SRI's a lil less


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

you don't need longer runners on this. just make them long enough to have the room for the fuel rail and make it snug to the head.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

@NLS

Do you know the sizes of the crank, and two a/c pullies?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

paypal me $5 and i'll measure the one on my shop floor:laugh:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I just recieved an email back from Chris at C2. Their runners are machined from billet to get that curve and are not availible commercially. Although he asked if I wanted straight runners, so he might have a source to get these for us. I am waiting to hear back on that.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> paypal me $5 and i'll measure the one on my shop floor:laugh:


Thanks!!



Ill just stick with my measurements. They will get me close enough.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

just kidding...the crank is 6'' the other AC is 5'' and the inner is 4.1''


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> just kidding...the crank is 6'' the other AC is 5'' and the inner is 4.1''


Thanks!!! :beer:

(This time not sarcastic) :laugh:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> you don't need longer runners on this. just make them long enough to have the room for the fuel rail and make it snug to the head.


Exactly :thumbup:

Mldouthi, Im doing it just like Chevy mounts it, Im making a plenum just like the oem, with most of the volume under the runner, and mount the s/c on the front just like in the Cobalt. Im just gonna order that intercooler from Josh's buddy so I dont have to figure out belt length twice.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> where'd EJ go? there's nothing online anymore!? no FB, no website, nothing.....


My guess is joel and ronnie are full Stasis. Those two are still there afaik. I like their products I just dont like how issues are dealt with, which based on my thread tons of people feel the same way. Idk they made my bay look good so :thumbup::thumbup: for that, even if customer service was their weak point :beer:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I just recieved an email back from Chris at C2. Their runners are machined from billet to get that curve and are not availible commercially. Although he asked if I wanted straight runners, so he might have a source to get these for us. I am waiting to hear back on that.


That would be great, because if not, Im gonna make rmr's runners work and just support the s/c to the block.


nothing-leaves-stock said:


> just kidding...the crank is 6'' the other AC is 5'' and the inner is 4.1''


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> That would be great, because if not, Im gonna make rmr's runners work and just support the s/c to the block.




With the info that NLS provided it looks like we would need a 2.8 pulley will get the s/c spinning at 10892.16 rpm. 



Chris is checking into what it would cost to have 15 4.5 inch runners cnc cut. 5 for me, 5 for you, and 5 for some guy that lives near me that might do this as well. (he hasnt commited, but I wanted to see about keeping the cost down) So I will technically have 5 left over.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> With the info that NLS provided it looks like we would need a 2.8 pulley will get the s/c spinning at 10892.16 rpm.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris is checking into what it would cost to have 15 4.5 inch runners cnc cut. 5 for me, 5 for you, and 5 for some guy that lives near me that might do this as well. (he hasnt commited, but I wanted to see about keeping the cost down) So I will technically have 5 left over.


Ok that would be great. Let me know what they say. I too have the goal of keeping the cost down and doing as much as I can myself, so if the runners are decently priced Ill take them.

Are you going to use one of the zzperformance pulleys? Or have one made?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ok that would be great. Let me know what they say. I too have the goal of keeping the cost down and doing as much as I can myself, so if the runners are decently priced Ill take them.
> 
> Are you going to use one of the zzperformance pulleys? Or have one made?


I will be using a zzp pulley since I already have there modular hub on my s/c


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I will be using a zzp pulley since I already have there modular hub on my s/c


I found these They have a 2.85 size which I may get


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin

How will you make that sharp of a bend off the head with oval piping, or are you not worried about that. The chevy manifold has a crazy downturn right off the head. 

I like how it utilizes that space though, and will give plenty of room for the charger and ic plate.

I think I am going to try to run the 1.25 x 6 x 4 bell awic core in the same fashion as NLS's friend.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Do you think it would be better to weld the bov on the carger shut, and put a Tial bov on the intake manifold? Or just remove the crappy plastic bov, and weld on a Tial bung on the bottom hole?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I found these They have a 2.85 size which I may get


Nice, they look almost identical to the zzp ones. 

Whats the reason for going with the 2.85?

That puts you at 10698.72 rpm to the s/c


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> kevin
> 
> How will you make that sharp of a bend off the head with oval piping, or are you not worried about that. The chevy manifold has a crazy downturn right off the head.
> 
> ...


Oh c2 may make us curved runners? Idk the plenum is going to have a flat angled front for the charger to bolt too and spread the air, rounded top and bottom flat sides most likely. If c2 runners they may make us are straight same thing, not sure what you mean about a sharp bend


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Nice, they look almost identical to the zzp ones.
> 
> Whats the reason for going with the 2.85?
> 
> That puts you at 10698.72 rpm to the s/c


Eh kinda a piece of mind thing. Since they are modular I can always change later, plus figure that will allow a run to 7k rpm


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Oh c2 may make us curved runners? Idk the plenum is going to have a flat angled front for the charger to bolt too and spread the air, rounded top and bottom flat sides most likely. If c2 runners they may make us are straight same thing, not sure what you mean about a sharp bend


the chevy manifold runs the air down and back through the s/c then curves up, kind of sharp, then a really sharp turn to the head.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> the chevy manifold runs the air down and back through the s/c then curves up, kind of sharp, then a really sharp turn to the head.


Well thats because it has built in water intercooler. Its chambered to flow the air down, under, and up through the tubular cores and to the head. Picture HEP style plenum with a angled front for the charger to bolt up, or maybe just a full square mani


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Well thats because it has built in water intercooler. Its chambered to flow the air down, under, and up through the tubular cores and to the head. Picture HEP style plenum with a angled front for the charger to bolt up, or maybe just a full square mani


Ahhh got it.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Would there be a problem with running 2.5 inch runners, ie just the C2 flange and welding a plate to it with another plate on the plenum that bolt them together?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Would there be a problem with running 2.5 inch runners, ie just the C2 flange and welding a plate to it with another plate on the plenum that bolt them together?


You just need enough runner length for the fuel rail to fit, in our case anyway


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> You just need enough runner length for the fuel rail to fit, in our case anyway


hmmm, that might work great then, I will have to check how far the fuel rail sticks out. Ill try to model some conceptual stuff up tomorrow.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Wow we really have no space. At all. You're going to be really really close and pushing the dipstick over based on these dim's. Is there any simple way to get rid of or move that dipstick out of the way? You guys should prob replace coolant distribution pipes if all the stuff ends up being in the way before you bolt it on too. Does anyone even machine crack pipes for this car yet?


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## 561golf (Aug 30, 2011)

Does the 2010 golf have more room for a SC?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

haha even less

same room, more imovable stuff in way w/MK6, based on pics i've seen. don't quote me on that as i'm not 100%


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> Wow we really have no space. At all. You're going to be really really close and pushing the dipstick over based on these dim's. Is there any simple way to get rid of or move that dipstick out of the way? You guys should prob replace coolant distribution pipes if all the stuff ends up being in the way before you bolt it on too. Does anyone even machine crack pipes for this car yet?


No coolant lines in the way so Im not sure what your looking at  On top of that they do sell stainless braided dipstick tunnels that you can replace the solid metal on with. I was just going to shorten it, and shorten the dip stick by the same length, its just steel wire so I can weld it back together.

The only thing left to figure out is how to make and mount an extra tensioner pulley, which zzperformance sells a larger one which I think would work, just need to make a plate to mount it, then belt size.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

my brain hurts.:wave:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> my brain hurts.:wave:


Looks like we're just waiting on runners


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

RMR tube are only .1'' differnt?? .1'' bigger? that's all?
just use them. devel the c2 flang edge a bit and weld them on....won't make a diffence.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> RMR tube are only .1'' differnt?? .1'' bigger? that's all?
> just use them. devel the c2 flang edge a bit and weld them on....won't make a diffence.


Yep. Curious to see what c2 comes back with price wise on cnc'd runners tho


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> RMR tube are only .1'' differnt?? .1'' bigger? that's all?
> just use them. devel the c2 flang edge a bit and weld them on....won't make a diffence.




The ID is .18" bigger on the RMR tubing


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

what are actual ID of each? to what depth can the flange be beveled?

kevin,

i was going by memory on the coolant stuff i guess i'm losing it.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> what are actual ID of each? to what depth can the flange be beveled?
> 
> kevin,
> 
> i was going by memory on the coolant stuff i guess i'm losing it.


 No worries, the down turn the throttle body will recieve the coolant lines will be in the way..
Once the charger comes in gonna straighten the intake arm weld shut the vents then off too powdercoating, and the snout is going to be smoothed and polished. opcorn:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> what are actual ID of each? to what depth can the flange be beveled?
> 
> kevin,
> 
> i was going by memory on the coolant stuff i guess i'm losing it.


RMR tubing










The flange is .18" smaller up and down and .175" smaller left to right. 

I left the flange at work to measure for sure, but they look to have an .125" wall tubes chamfered on the outside about .0625" which I assume is for better welding.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> What do the green numbers represent in this map, I thought it was rpm. But it doesnt seen to correspond to this map.




After a little more research, we need to be using the top map (5th gen) and the green lines are rpm. Therefore at 8000rpm (s/c) it pushes around 450 cfm which by your early calculations will put us around 9.9 psi. 

8000 rpm (8020.32rpm to be exact) can be achieved with a 3.8 pulley. These things got a ton more efficient over the generations.

I would really like someone to check my work though. 

**I was wrong once before


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> After a little more research, we need to be using the top map (5th gen) and the green lines are rpm. Therefore at 8000rpm (s/c) it pushes around 450 cfm which by your early calculations will put us around 9.9 psi.
> 
> 8000 rpm (8020.32rpm to be exact) can be achieved with a 3.8 pulley. These things got a ton more efficient over the generations.
> 
> ...


Well that would be custom mine cam with 3.35


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Well that would be custom mine cam with 3.35


Like I said I could be wrong. haha. I was. 

So the graph shows m^3 / hr not cfm, therefore 1 cfm = 1.699 m^3 / hr

so to get 454 cfm (10psi) we will need 770 m^3 / hr 

which is around 12750rpm, and a 2.4 in pulley (12707.52)


As you can see I need people to check my work. or I can in an hour and see how I did. :laugh:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Like I said I could be wrong. haha. I was.
> 
> So the graph shows m^3 / hr not cfm, therefore 1 cfm = 1.699 m^3 / hr
> 
> ...



*IF* this is correct then the most boost we could get (using the cals from page 3) without running machining the snout (2.8 pulley) is 6 psi





> Crank Pulley Circumferance = 6
> *A/C Pulley O = 5
> Ratio = 1.2
> @ 6200 rpm = A/C Pulley 7440rpm
> ...


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

So with a 2.8 pulley we will see only 6 psi.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> So with a 2.8 pulley we will see only 6 psi.


Thats what the math says


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Looks like M90 would have been a better choice for a higher psi. Maybe someday, after I get this to work. 

Porting the s/c should help a little. And welding the silencer ports makes the VE better, from what I have read on the cobalt forums.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

i'm thinking bout building a setup with a screw type and a cv axle drive system that will allow me to put the charge and pulley where i want them. and hopefully avoid too much custom work using a front mount and my HEP SRI.

on the other hand it would be so much easier just to do a 200 shot


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I think it would be sweet to have the belt drive a spur gear setup on the s/c so you get the whine of the gears and the s/c


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Crank Pulley Circumferance = 6
A/C Pulley O = 5
Ratio = 1.2
@ 6200 rpm = A/C Pulley 7440rpm


A/C Pulley I = 4.1
S/C Pulley Circumferance = *2.55*
Ratio = 1.607

@ 7440 rpm = 11956.08S/C rpm

Then you take s/c rpm multiply it by .03531 to get CFM
11956.08 S/C rpm * .0351 = 419.66CFM


2.5 engine can inhale 271 CFM of air (151.33 cubic inches*6200RPM/3464)

Excess air = 419.66– 271 = 148.66 “boosted” CFM

Boost = excess CFM / normal CFM * atmospheric pressure
148.66 / 271 * 14.7 = *8.06 pounds boost *


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Thats what the math says


I talked to a mustang guy last night up at five guys and he put it this way, smaller pulley makes more power, it makes the charger spin faster bringing in more air, larger pulley slows the charger brings in less... Not sure on his logic as he said a lot of things that arent true


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

So then a 3" pulley would be too big or too small?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

axle drive? like from you transmission axle?:what:


----------



## Stg3G60 (Apr 7, 2008)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I talked to a mustang guy last night up at five guys and he put it this way, smaller pulley makes more power, it makes the charger spin faster bringing in more air, larger pulley slows the charger brings in less... Not sure on his logic as he said a lot of things that arent true


Im no expert but I believe this to be true. On my G60 corrado, I went from a 72mm pulley (i think) down to a 65mm pulley when I went stage 3, and that took me from stock boost, up to almost 14psi, according to the dash boost gauge that is.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

it's the ratio from the crank or drive pulley to the charger pulley sizes.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> it's the ratio from the crank or drive pulley to the charger pulley sizes.


exactly, But the no matter what, the smaller the pulley the faster it will spin.

@ kevin

3 in pulley will give you 4.6 psi using the calcs above


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

no. not always. if you change the sc and crank pulley opposite in size they will not spin faster....


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> exactly, But the no matter what, the smaller the pulley the faster it will spin.
> 
> @ kevin
> 
> 3 in pulley will give you 4.6 psi using the calcs above


Yea we need to get this straight... First its 4" pulley in the other forum, then 2.8 in here, then 3.8 from your math above, then 2.55 based on the formula I cam up with? 6-7 maybe 8psi with machining on a 2.8 will still put us roughly around 230-240 no lag hp, header and hf cat should be 245-250 on par with our goal.

Also in reality our rev limit is 6500 not 6200, we can make power to 7200 proven by others, so maybe the 2.8 is the way to go


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Have them modify this to fit the m62, Im satisfied with 6-7psi on the stock bottom end for starters, on something never ventured before


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> no. not always. if you change the sc and crank pulley opposite in size they will not spin faster....


That would be changing both not just one. 

Like I said, if you change the s/c to a smaller pulley, therefore impling that everything else stays the same then what I said is correct.

Because by your logic, I would say that a smaller pulley wouldnt work at all because I also took away the engine.  haha


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Yea we need to get this straight... First its 4" pulley in the other forum, then 2.8 in here, then 3.8 from your math above, then 2.55 based on the formula I cam up with? 6-7 maybe 8psi with machining on a 2.8 will still put us roughly around 230-240 no lag hp, header and hf cat should be 245-250 on par with our goal.
> 
> Also in reality our rev limit is 6500 not 6200, we can make power to 7200 proven by others, so maybe the 2.8 is the way to go


Crank Pulley Circumferance = 6
A/C Pulley O = 5
Ratio = 1.2
@ 6500 rpm = A/C Pulley 7800rpm


A/C Pulley I = 4.1
S/C Pulley Circumferance = 2.8
Ratio = 1.464

@ 7800 rpm = 11419.20 S/C rpm

Then you take s/c rpm multiply it by .03531 to get CFM
11419.20S/C rpm * .0351 = 400.81CFM


2.5 engine can inhale 271 CFM of air (151.33 cubic inches*6200RPM/3464)

Excess air = 400.81– 271 = 129.81“boosted” CFM

Boost = excess CFM / normal CFM * atmospheric pressure
129.81/ 271 * 14.7 = 7.04 pounds boost


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Have them modify this to fit the m62, Im satisfied with 6-7psi on the stock bottom end for starters, on something never ventured before


Why not just buy the zzp pulley system that is made for the M62? which I believe is the same for the M90.

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/209-Cobalt-Ion-Modular-Pulley-System.aspx


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Id just like to point out, think about changing to a smaller pulley like changing to a lower gear on your bicycle. Harder to pedal but you do get more top speed. Keep that in mind when deciding your pulley.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Its official Im running a 2.8. I was reading over some Cobalt pages and some of those guys are making 14psi with the 2.8 and the charger machined and polished, so 8-9 psi on that pulley is possible with the supporting mods. On average they are making 12 psi with the 2.8 and putting out just over 300hp and claiming huge torque gains. The only complaints with the smaller pulley is the decreased efficiency and extra heat which that cooler will take care of


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Why not just buy the zzp pulley system that is made for the M62? which I believe is the same for the M90.
> 
> http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/209-Cobalt-Ion-Modular-Pulley-System.aspx


Hm they have 2.7 with no machining, Ill go with that then, I didnt see that before


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

How big is their crank pulley Kevin?

If their crank pulley is bigger than ours they would get more boost with the same sized sc pully.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Stock cant find it, But the one guy making 300hp on the 2.8 is using a 5.56" billet replacement so its a little bigger. Im sure gruven parts can make us a .45" bigger pulley at some point, for starters Im not looking to go all out


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Its official Im running a 2.8. I was reading over some Cobalt pages and some of those guys are making 14psi with the 2.8 and the charger machined and polished, so 8-9 psi on that pulley is possible with the supporting mods. On average they are making 12 psi with the 2.8 and putting out just over 300hp and claiming huge torque gains. The only complaints with the smaller pulley is the decreased efficiency and extra heat which that cooler will take care of


There motor is a lot different, therefore comparing the boost they get from a given pulley is irrelevant. As shown in the calculations you should get around 7 psi with a 2.8 pulley at 6500rpm(engine speed) 




kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Hm they have 2.7 with no machining, Ill go with that then, I didnt see that before


There site says anything below a 2.8 needs machining.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> There motor is a lot different, therefore comparing the boost they get from a given pulley is irrelevant. As shown in the calculations you should get around 7 psi with a 2.8 pulley at 6500rpm(engine speed)
> 
> 
> There site says anything below a 2.8 needs machining.


 From some youtube videos I watched I think 7psi on a stock bottom end is enough


Straight from the page you linked:
_ZZPerformance pulleys do not require snout machining. By developing Ecotech specific pulleys we run all the way down to 2.7" w/o snout machining_.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> From some youtube videos I watched I think 7psi on a stock bottom end is enough
> 
> 
> Straight from the page you linked:
> _ZZPerformance pulleys do not require snout machining. By developing Ecotech specific pulleys we run all the way down to 2.7" w/o snout machining_.


nice, thats weird. But ill take it.  On all there other pages it says 2.8.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> nice, thats weird. But ill take it.  On all there other pages it says 2.8.


Before I start contacting them, they are still in business right? Seems like alot of things say in stock, but those dates are in 08?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Before I start contacting them, they are still in business right? Seems like alot of things say in stock, but those dates are in 08?


All the people I talked to about the sc on the cobalt forum seemed like they were still getting parts from them.

But I personally havent checked.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

any thoughts on the supercharger set up used in the mbenz kompressor 
how do they set it up


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nickbeezy said:


> any thoughts on the supercharger set up used in the mbenz kompressor
> how do they set it up


Its a clutched m62. Basically the clutches engage from a 12v signal, so you can turn it on and off as needed. In the Mercedes it is linked to the throttle signal and kicks on when you are WOT. Most Honda guys link it to the wiper stalk, and disable the wipers.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Some work, but not really. I worked on this at lunch today.











I am thinking of machining a flange that will weld to C2s flange but have a slight angle to it so that it will clear the fuel rail and be more in line with where the air will be coming from.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

What are your thoughts?


I am working on some prototype flanges and then I will be able to do a test fit soon to see if this flange idea will work.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Idk its hard to picture what exactly that would look like. Those injectors are pretty long :laugh: You still need a plenum, and how would you make that flange


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

you don't NEED a big plentum.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

You still need one


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I will model more at lunch.


I will have to check the dims on the injectors also.



How big of a pain is it to take the intake manifold off? Is it something that could be taken off to check fitment and say put it back on the next day? Gaskets?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I will model more at lunch.
> 
> 
> I will have to check the dims on the injectors also.
> ...


I had it off last week. The underside bolts are the only ones that give a fight


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I had it off last week. The underside bolts are the only ones that give a fight



Thanks, Maybe I can bolt up the C2 flange this weekend and get a better idea where things will fit.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is the whole system. The Grey boarder is 11.8 inches from the head (left to right) and the Bottom is 2.5 inches below the flange, and extends up 12 inches.

The plenum is made of 4" tube sections and flat sheet. All .125 inch thick.


Passanger side view









Front View









Passanger side section view










With this setup, there will be a flange welded to the C2 flange and the plenum will have flanges on both sides. One to match up with the charger and the other to match up with the runner flange. The plenum will be bolted to the runner flange with 2 bolts on the outside ends and the rest will be bolted from the inside, between the runner holes. This can be done through the large hole in the charger flange. This design also utilizes a Bell awic core (6"x4.5"x1.25")

I just realized I missed one flange on the s/c. Therefore there will be a .25 inch flange between the s/c and plenum that is not shown.



Now let me know what you think of this design. Since its more finished now.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

That actually looks pretty good, tell you what make two of those flanges if you can :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> That actually looks pretty good, tell you what make two of those flanges if you can :thumbup:


Will do, the material should be here in a couple days for the runner flange. I will make this out of something else, plastic or even foam to make sure it will fit before I go machining the actual flanges.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Definitely want a SC rabbit...already setting aside money for a setup when you guys make one.:beer: :thumbup::thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I have been working on a bit of a variation to the design above. The new design will be a little easier for machining and will give 220 cubic inches of plenum space. I will also have some build drawings as well.


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## TheZooKeeper (Jan 28, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> I will model more at lunch.
> 
> 
> I will have to check the dims on the injectors also.
> ...


You should be able to get the manifold off in under an hour, if you've never done it before. IIRC, they're o-ring'd at each cylinder port, so no gasket.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is the new design, only change is to the plenum and the s/c mounting flange.



















This flange will allow for the bypass connection and the inlet and outlet of the awic. I have been busy at work and therefore I dont have many views and dont have all the drawings done.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

That looks great, exactly what Ive been picturing all along. but the port is to run a piece of silicone hose from the dv to that hole as a type of recirculation setup?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> That looks great, exactly what Ive been picturing all along. but the port is to run a piece of silicone hose from the dv to that hole as a type of recirculation setup?


That port will meet right up with the bypass hole on the cobalt m62, and use a rubber gasket in the channel. Therefore there will be no need for a silicone hose. Just 4 bolts and the charger is all connected to that plate. 

The other 2 holes for the awic can either be threaded for NTP fittings or have protruding pipes to run rubber lines and clamps.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I just ordered a 2.6 LSJ modular pulley from zzp. Should put me at around 8-9 psi.


I was also mis-shipped some material, so Im still waiting on my 1" thick plate to show up. But I got some free .5" out of it :thumbup:


And I am getting enough material to make more than one of the manifolds for the people interested.


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## Stg3G60 (Apr 7, 2008)

mldouthi said:


>


Hey man, from one fellow draftsman to another, really nice looking work! Cant wait to see when you have the setup fully machined. Awesome work :thumbup:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

nice manifold.
you have the pulleys lined up with the manifold spacing? or just make a killer looking manifold and hope the pulleys line up?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> nice manifold.
> you have the pulleys lined up with the manifold spacing? or just make a killer looking manifold and hope the pulleys line up?


Of course I am not going to just hope it works. I will be able to make everything up to the s/c flange and the flange it bolts to on the plenum. That is why I ordered the pulley to check alignment. 

I will make everything except for the 2 flanges mentioned above and those I will cut to the right exterior dims and but no holes in the middle. Then mock everything up on the engine and hole the s/c in place on top of the intake and mark where it lines up. Then I can adjust the set of holes in the flanges accordingly.


Or I could try to measure the offset. 



Ill probably do both just to make sure everything lines up.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

did you ever get that c2 flange?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> did you ever get that c2 flange?


Yessir,

I posted a crappy cell phone picture of it. Thats how I was able to model it.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

so that curved side on your intake manifold is going to be a pita, does it compensate for the longer bottom or something?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> so that curved side on your intake manifold is going to be a pita, does it compensate for the longer bottom or something?


It gives more room on the outside of the manifold for the fuel rail and plugs along with a smoother transition for the air. A curve on the other side doesnt help that much. 

It shouldnt be that bad actually. I am going to waterjet cut the 2 end pieces then the bottom piece is a rectangle and then all I have to do is hold a 4" .125 wall tube up to that profile and mark and cut.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

very nice models! I look forward to the end results!


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

so are the sides i was asking about equal length or i'm confused.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> so are the sides i was asking about equal length or i'm confused.


yes, right to left everything is symmetrical. The 2 plates on the left and right will be the same cutout.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

We got a new car last night...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> We got a new car last night...


So no more s/c project :thumbdown:





What car did you get?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> So no more s/c project :thumbdown:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
No... A no space restriction s/c project. I bought a '91 Corrado. Getting a 2.5 swap transverse, with 6 speed trans RWD. Im keeping the Rabbit till spring at least, then I may trade it in.

Still gonna s/c the Rabbit with the m62. On the Corrado Im gonna use a mp112. I have no problem cutting through the Corrado hood. Prob. gonna mount it on top the valve cover and do a AWIC plumbed to a pringle can manifold. Make my own headers and aluminum vc as I have one to model off of.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

wow if you're going to do all that you might as well have done a dual 2.5 super charged setup, similar to the dual 24v lupo? 

i'm in for a supercharger setup but i need to get another job and have my car tied up w/the UM tune right now.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> wow if you're going to do all that you might as well have done a dual 2.5 super charged setup, similar to the dual 24v lupo?
> 
> i'm in for a supercharger setup but i need to get another job and have my car tied up w/the UM tune right now.


Nah. The po was converting it to rwd. It has independent rear suspension, and the rear end in it, just no trans and the vr6 in it is shot. The body and interior are in great shape. There is a drag corrado with a transverse vr6 so a 5cyl will fit transverse. Im looking into the trans. they are using. AWD would be sweet, but Id have to do sooo much work to reverse the RWD swap, so Im going to theme it as a drift car... Flat black, pink Rota Grids, huge stretch and as much negative camber as I can pull and a giant wing(jk)


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

My zzp 2.6 pulley came in today.


One step closer....


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I just found some 2.5 motors in my area for around $700, I wish that was in my budget for this build. It would be so much easier with the motor out. haha


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

what years are they? condition?

any links?

i might be interested in driving down and picking one up


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nickbeezy said:


> what years are they? condition?
> 
> any links?
> 
> i might be interested in driving down and picking one up


They are from a junk yard website with around 120K on them. There are a couple too that only had like 60-70K. I will look and see if I can find the website again.




PM'd


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Still havent gotten any quotes back from the machine shops 

I might have a way to get them cnc'd for cheap with the help of another vortex member though :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Still havent gotten any quotes back from the machine shops
> 
> I might have a way to get them cnc'd for cheap with the help of another vortex member though :thumbup:


That would be great. I dont think Ill attempt it without that piece, I had the intake mani off yesturday, and without that angle being welded to the flange, nothing else will work  I dont even think c2's curved flanges would work, you'd have to shorten them about an inch.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I took my intake manifold off today to check some fitment stuff and when I put everything back together the EPC light came on and it wont rev past like 2000.


?????????????????


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Your car is in limp mode. You plug the barometric sensor back in? Have anyone with vagcom? Clear the codes, and you should be good. I vag mine everytime I mess with something just to be sure.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

You can also disconnect the battery and turn the key. Let it sit for awhile reconnect the battery and let it idle for like 5-10mins like tuners do when they flash your car. Take a short drive to reset where it tripped. Also vagcom will tell you the rpm it tripped, and voltage, If under 1k before the car started, low voltage, means sensor fault, or not plugged in all the way :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Your car is in limp mode. You plug the barometric sensor back in? Have anyone with vagcom? Clear the codes, and you should be good. I vag mine everytime I mess with something just to be sure.


Which one is the barometric sensor. Im pretty sure I plugged everything back in I unplugged. but..


As for the vagcom, yes but they live like 30mins from me.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Which one is the barometric sensor. Im pretty sure I plugged everything back in I unplugged. but..
> 
> 
> As for the vagcom, yes but they live like 30mins from me.


Its on the side of the intake manifold, thats what vagcom titles it.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Its on the side of the intake manifold, thats what vagcom titles it.


I think I figured it out. The plug on the bottom of the throttle body wasnt all the way in. So I unplugged the battery for a min and now all I have is the warning steering light.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I think I figured it out. The plug on the bottom of the throttle body wasnt all the way in. So I unplugged the battery for a min and now all I have is the warning steering light.


Thatll go away, when you start to drive. :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Some pictures from some work yesterday.

Intake off









C2 Flange on



















The plenum will have to change slightly to account for the motor mount/ alternator bracket.









Foam block that is the size of the plenum and all flanges.




















Also the s/c will be pushed more to the drivers side to allow for the belt to line up.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Looking good.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

If you need any rapid prototypes building let me know. My university is way UNDER budget on materials, by several years. Nobody ever uses this thing it just sits in corner collecting dust and stock piling material supplied by the state. I'm not very good at articulating autoCAD to this machine though...

It is the type that has the 3 axis w/two polymers it injects, the second removed in an acid bath. If you're familiar w/this rapid prototyping I can run some brackets etc for you easy.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> If you need any rapid prototypes building let me know. My university is way UNDER budget on materials, by several years. Nobody ever uses this thing it just sits in corner collecting dust and stock piling material supplied by the state. I'm not very good at articulating autoCAD to this machine though...
> 
> It is the type that has the 3 axis w/two polymers it injects, the second removed in an acid bath. If you're familiar w/this rapid prototyping I can run some brackets etc for you easy.


That would be great!

PM'd


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

:thumbup: on the progress. this thread delivers :beer:


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Had a rapid prototyping class... man it was pretty sweet! We designed a couple parts and partnered up with Boeing to print it. The last class for my cad minor... I can appreciate the work going in here. Were used CATIA for modeling and Insight for the 3-D printing.

It is looking pretty sweet here! Keep up the good work.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

good thing to learn on but pretty useless cuz they're expensive to run. we just lucky to have program that doesn't use ours. a few of us 

the group projects in mechanical design are hilarious. nothing ever fits together because 1/3 people get the stupid tolerances right. its a mess. i'm not very good w/it but i'm sure mld is


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tchilds said:


> good thing to learn on but pretty useless cuz they're expensive to run. we just lucky to have program that doesn't use ours. a few of us
> 
> the group projects in mechanical design are hilarious. nothing ever fits together because 1/3 people get the stupid tolerances right. its a mess. i'm not very good w/it but i'm sure mld is


Sounds like the cnc mill at the school I went to, it never got used. I wish I had access to it now. 

Thanks for checking into the rapid prototype stuff for me :beer:


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

tchilds said:


> good thing to learn on but pretty useless cuz they're expensive to run. we just lucky to have program that doesn't use ours. a few of us
> 
> the group projects in mechanical design are hilarious. nothing ever fits together because 1/3 people get the stupid tolerances right. its a mess. i'm not very good w/it but i'm sure mld is


well it really depends, they can really help in a lot of processes but for what the typical person wants, yes they are relatively expensive. In a product development i've seen them cut costs and time to market in almost half.

last semester here as an aerospace engineering student we got to help with a 3-d printed monocopter... It was pretty sweet.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

New concept to clear the Motor/Alternator mount.










This is using 4 inch tubing and flat .125" plate


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Little update. 

All the machine shops I was having quote the flanges said they would rather me have them cnc'd. I still have one more shop I am going to check with and still waiting to hear about the cnc help from the other guy on here.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Little update.
> 
> All the machine shops I was having quote the flanges said they would rather me have them cnc'd. I still have one more shop I am going to check with and still waiting to hear about the cnc help from the other guy on here.


I'm not too surprised they suggest CNC... cost will go up but precisions is phenomenal


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Anile_eight said:


> I'm not too surprised they suggest CNC... cost will go up but precisions is phenomenal


I made it to be super easy to mill. They are just busy and dont want to take the time to do it. If I had access to a mill I would just do it. But.... I dont.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> I made it to be super easy to mill. They are just busy and dont want to take the time to do it. If I had access to a mill I would just do it. But.... I dont.


Ahh I see well not many people know how to design things to be manufactured a certain way... usually they desgin something and all they say is "ok here make it". Good luck there.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

If you have the files in dxf I can get them quoted for you.
The biggest problem in getting parts CNC'ed is the set up time / set up cost.

For e.g. if you are machining a part it usually goes like this:

Set up time ($X) + FACTOR( Material cost ($Y) + Machine time ($Z) ) / 3

the more parts your machine , the more spread you have for that set up time. We just machined a part that was in the $3500 USD range ....cut from probably one of the biggest chunks of aluminum we ever had.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> If you have the files in dxf I can get them quoted for you.
> The biggest problem in getting parts CNC'ed is the set up time / set up cost.
> 
> For e.g. if you are machining a part it usually goes like this:
> ...


It would need to be cut on a 5 axis if there was going to be only one set up. I would have to give you several dxf files of cut paths for the different orientations. 

I completely understand the reason for the cost. If I could get 50 of them cut they would seem cheap per part but still alot of money overall. It is the same way at the place I work, just our factory/fab shop and everything is in Germany. 



If I am going to get it cnc'd it will be with my friend here, because there will be little to no cost. If that doesnt work out. Ill get someone to mill the port slots (1" end mill) and I can do the rest on a mini mill.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thank you for the offer though. :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Still waiting to here about about the cnc work. And still getting moved in to the new house, so the progress has slowed. 


Heres a flow simulation I did on the plenum with 8 psi.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Sent the charger out to have the ports deleted, twin screws polished, housing wrinkled black and snout machined and polished. Once IE sorts out the fuel rail issues for c2's flange Im starting the welding process :thumbup: Doing a full fuel system upgrade and may go with UM e85 not sure yet opcorn:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Sent the charger out to have the ports deleted, twin screws polished, housing wrinkled black and snout machined and polished. Once IE sorts out the fuel rail issues for c2's flange Im starting the welding process :thumbup: Doing a full fuel system upgrade and may go with UM e85 not sure yet opcorn:



Awesome. 
Are they welding the ports or using putty stuff?

Whats the problem with the C2 flange and the fuel rail?



I have one more machine shop I am trying tonight after work to see if they will help me out in making the parts. I will let you know if and when I get a price for machining the parts.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Awesome.
> Are they welding the ports or using putty stuff?
> 
> Whats the problem with the C2 flange and the fuel rail?
> ...


Yes they are opening the port, and welding shut the ports, then smooth and polish. The problem is c2 and UM flange doesnt allow the injectors to be run in oem spray pattern. I believe this is also the case with oem fuel rail  At least that how IE made it seem with these flanges. Im doing a full return system, so I need an aftermarket fuel rail to build this around, but to be safe I want to maintain the factory spray pattern.

Ya cool let me know how much that piece would cost. :thumbup: I get the charger back in 3-5 months. They are very, very busy, but Ive got nothing but time opcorn:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Yes they are opening the port, and welding shut the ports, then smooth and polish. The problem is c2 and UM flange doesnt allow the injectors to be run in oem spray pattern. I believe this is also the case with oem fuel rail  At least that how IE made it seem with these flanges. Im doing a full return system, so I need an aftermarket fuel rail to build this around, but to be safe I want to maintain the factory spray pattern.
> 
> Ya cool let me know how much that piece would cost. :thumbup: I get the charger back in 3-5 months. They are very, very busy, but Ive got nothing but time opcorn:


I emailed Chris yesterday and he said that the oem fuel rail fits and works fine with their flange, the problem comes when you dont use the oem fuel rail. 


FYI the guy at this machine shop acted like these parts wouldnt be a problem at all. The other 2 I asked didnt really work on car stuff, and thats about all this guy does. I should have a quote in a couple days.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I emailed Chris yesterday and he said that the oem fuel rail fits and works fine with their flange, the problem comes when you dont use the oem fuel rail.
> 
> 
> FYI the guy at this machine shop acted like these parts wouldnt be a problem at all. The other 2 I asked didnt really work on car stuff, and thats about all this guy does. I should have a quote in a couple days.


Well thats good the oem one works. The only way I could use it would be to drill out and tap the drivers side for -an fitting for a return line. I dont really want to do that on such a thin rail. IE says they have a modified fix to run factory spray pattern with their rail. They swear that UM and C2 angles are not oem spec so with their rail you cannot run the right spray pattern, but their rail works great on the oem manifold. IDK just need that before I can do anything.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I dropped off the material at the machine shop yesterday to have the angled, upper and lower plenum flanges machined. They should be done by the end of the year.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I dropped off the material at the machine shop yesterday to have the angled, upper and lower plenum flanges machined. They should be done by the end of the year.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

The aftermarket flanges out there change the injector angle and placement- the actual spray pattern itself will stay the same. 

Why not buy a set of C2's bent oval runners, and weld those onto a normal (flat / "thin") head flange, and then weld a set of injector bungs on where you need them to be? Maybe just a 5/8" thick head flange, waterjet cut... The alternative would be a fuel rail with a large 45 degree chamfer to provide clearance for the cam sensor plug. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Ill figure it out once I choose my injectors I want to use. I could also just drill and tap the oem fuel rail for a return. I have a few options :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

The OE rails are braised sheet metal / tubing, so I wouldn't tap it. I would cut the ends off and weld on -6 bungs, if you want to go that route. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The OE rails are braised sheet metal / tubing, so I wouldn't tap it. I would cut the ends off and weld on -6 bungs, if you want to go that route. :thumbup:


:thumbup::thumbup: Sucks I wanna run your billet version ha


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I might notch some yet, still undecided. We have been trying to hire a new machinist for the better part of a month now, and I have stacks of parts waiting to be made- so that sort of precludes throwing any rails back on to add a notch. :sly:

Any CNC machinists want a job? LOL


----------



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I might notch some yet, still undecided. We have been trying to hire a new machinist for the better part of a month now, and I have stacks of parts waiting to be made- so that sort of precludes throwing any rails back on to add a notch. :sly:
> 
> Any CNC machinists want a job? LOL


Sorry no machinist ...just an aerospace engineer. Good luck though!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Little problem at the machine shop. After looking at how I have the 2 flanges, the angle cut flange creates an elipse and therefore the guy at the machine shop cant fillet the opening.

Back to the drawing board for those flanges. I should have new models tomorrow.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Little problem at the machine shop. After looking at how I have the 2 flanges, the angle cut flange creates an elipse and therefore the guy at the machine shop cant fillet the opening.
> 
> Back to the drawing board for those flanges. I should have new models tomorrow.


:thumbup::thumbup: Keep me posted. Im gonna keep chugging along like its going to get done, but I think once I get the Gen Coupe in late spring, if SFR doesnt have their stage1 480whp turbo kit done the Eaton is getting traded for a bigger blower for that. If I dont have this Rabbit blown by then that is... :beer::beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is the new design, Its not finished but its done enough for a side secton view. We finally got a decent CAD software at work so I am remodeling all the components.


----------



## RedRumGTI (Dec 6, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I might notch some yet, still undecided. We have been trying to hire a new machinist for the better part of a month now, and I have stacks of parts waiting to be made- so that sort of precludes throwing any rails back on to add a notch. :sly:
> 
> Any CNC machinists want a job? LOL


Id take you up on that but I'm all the way in PA lol


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

RedRumGTI said:


> Id take you up on that but I'm all the way in PA lol


Maybe theyd move ya :beer::beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

New drawings are at the machine shop now. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Trading the m62 for a Harrop


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Them next to each other.


















And on a 5 cyl.









Also notice how they used a normal awic core.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Them next to each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome. Whats the size on that? Looks to be close to the size of a M90. Thats going to be tough to fit under the hood without any cutting.

How is that an even trade? That thing looks brand new!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Awesome. Whats the size on that? Looks to be close to the size of a M90. Thats going to be tough to fit under the hood without any cutting.
> 
> How is that an even trade? That thing looks brand new!


It's the same size. Harrop made them as direct m62 replacement for more power. $2300 brand new. Im putting cash on top as well.


----------



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> It's the same size. Harrop made them as direct m62 replacement for more power. $2300 brand new. Im putting cash on top as well.


All i can say.. Wow!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here are some renderings of the new manifold.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I think I know the answer to this but I would like to get some feedback from other people as well. 


For the awic inside the plenum. Would it be advantageous to use a larger core even if the opening of the sc is only around 4" x 4.5"? So would it be better to run a 6 x 10 core rather than a 4 x 4.5 core?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

FWIW, let me know if you need any portions of that rapid prototyped. We can do it fairly cost effectively for small sections, if you need to test fit a flange, whatever. Printing the entire thing probably wouldn't make any sense for you. :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> FWIW, let me know if you need any portions of that rapid prototyped. We can do it fairly cost effectively for small sections, if you need to test fit a flange, whatever. Printing the entire thing probably wouldn't make any sense for you. :thumbup:


Thank you very much for the offer, but I have a gf that has a 3d printer at her work  Lucky me!




Still looking for insite on the i/c core size.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I bought a cobalt manifold to take the awic tubes out of to reuse, as well as the end caps.


----------



## napkin (Mar 8, 2008)

hmm.. id love to make a kit for the 2.5l 5cyl you drive. but we dont have it here in germany ;( i did kits for the vr5 mk4 150 and 170hp engines.. but the 2,5l should be much more fun!

keepin it up, its bookmarked! :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

New date for the flanges being done is monday. 

I WANT THEM NOW.... so they can sit in my garage and not be worked on, haha. I have too many projects started.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I think Im out... Im settling for a Mk6 TDi Golf. Trading in the Rabbit hopefully in the spring, so I can have it classy and show ready by summer lol


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Got it. The TDIs are pretty nice.


Im sure I will be able to find someone to buy the flanges or I might need them in case I mess something up, haha.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Got it. The TDIs are pretty nice.
> 
> 
> Im sure I will be able to find someone to buy the flanges or I might need them in case I mess something up, haha.


Tell you what. Let me know how much the flanges will be. Maybe Ill go ahead and do it since I already have a new supercharger. Then see if I can afford to have both. I know I can just not while Im building the Rabbit. Its kind of one or the other- Spend money on the Mkv have it the way I want it- or keep it the way it is, get the TDI build that into a tq monster weekend car, and keep the Rabbit for a daily since its sitting at 70k on the clock


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Tell you what. Let me know how much the flanges will be. Maybe Ill go ahead and do it since I already have a new supercharger. Then see if I can afford to have both. I know I can just not while Im building the Rabbit. Its kind of one or the other- Spend money on the Mkv have it the way I want it- or keep it the way it is, get the TDI build that into a tq monster weekend car, and keep the Rabbit for a daily since its sitting at 70k on the clock


Id say keep going with it so you can have it the way you want it. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::beer:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> Id say keep going with it so you can have it the way you want it. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::beer:


I thi nk I'm gonna :thumbup: just ordered air, so the rabbit is staying for awhile


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I thi nk I'm gonna :thumbup: just ordered air, so the rabbit is staying for awhile


Sweet! I swear when you guys finish this I will be one of he first in line for it. Im not too excited about the turbo setup as I like rare/one-off setups. Been following since day one. Keep up the great work. :thumbup:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> Sweet! I swear when you guys finish this I will be one of he first in line for it. Im not too excited about the turbo setup as I like rare/one-off setups. Been following since day one. Keep up the great work. :thumbup:


Ya the new supercharger is still boxed up from being internally machined :thumbup: I was debating selling it for wheels, or turbo kit, but Ill keep at this.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Ordered a AWIC core today from bell.









Still no word from the machinist.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Ordered a AWIC core today from bell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Meh well let me know when he makes contact with you. :thumbup: Im just gonna run Cryo2 at first. Ill figure out an awic setup later.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Picked up the flanges today.:thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Just let me know the price of the flanges and Ill buy em asap. :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Just let me know the price of the flanges and Ill buy em asap. :thumbup:


pm sent


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

:thumbup:


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

What a great project, and thanks again for inviting us to be a part of it.
THIS is what the enthusiast scene is about...taking an idea outside-of-the-box and working with the community to make it happen. We look forward to continuing to work on this 2.5 SC project...and can't wait to get our hands on tuning this car

C2Motorsports


----------



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

C2Motorsports said:


> What a great project, and thanks again for inviting us to be a part of it.
> THIS is what the enthusiast scene is about...taking an idea outside-of-the-box and working with the community to make it happen. We look forward to continuing to work on this 2.5 SC project...and can't wait to get our hands on tuning this car
> 
> C2Motorsports


+1 ^ I agree! I can't wait for the outcome!


----------



## 2pt5_20v_pwr (Jul 19, 2011)

SC + VAG 5cylinder is greater than or equal to 8===D


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

2pt5_20v_pwr said:


> SC + VAG 5cylinder is greater than or equal to 8===D


Im not sure I understand that??


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

if you did....i'd be scared.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> if you did....i'd be scared.


x2


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Does anyone one know anywhere to get awic aluminum heat exchangers? I can only find like 2 sizes without going custom. All I found was one on ebay that is too long, well without cutting a bunch of stuff and one on frozen boost which is really tall. 

I would rather get a big alum one rather than the small "oil" coolers, which I would run more than one of if I used them.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Does anyone one know anywhere to get awic aluminum heat exchangers? I can only find like 2 sizes without going custom. All I found was one on ebay that is too long, well without cutting a bunch of stuff and one on frozen boost which is really tall.
> 
> I would rather get a big alum one rather than the small "oil" coolers, which I would run more than one of if I used them.


blue water


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Remember we have the entire space a fmic would use to work with


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Remember we have the entire space a fmic would use to work with


Yes, and that space without cutting is around 25 inches wide and 9 inches tall. I will have to search some more. I will check into blue water. Thanks


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Yes, and that space without cutting is around 25 inches wide and 9 inches tall. I will have to search some more. I will check into blue water. Thanks


Ya plus you have to keep room for a winch :thumbup:


----------



## Two . Slow (Aug 5, 2009)

Ah originality, this is pure bad ass. I commend you on your efforts to the project man :beer: :beer:


Sent from my torque wrench.


----------



## 2pt5_20v_pwr (Jul 19, 2011)

mldouthi said:


> Im not sure I understand that??


Sorry I was drunk. I think what I was trying to imply is that the sound from the supercharger along with the sound from the 5 cylinder is going to make me randy


----------



## RABBIT170 (Aug 26, 2009)

This looks good, what is the supercharger out of?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

RABBIT170 said:


> This looks good, what is the supercharger out of?


cobalt ss


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

awic core










vitron rubber for gasketing


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

moar!!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Almost ready for welding. 


Now I just need a tig welder.


----------



## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

Yesss!


----------



## Stg3G60 (Apr 7, 2008)

sick!


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Im getting moist!! lol:thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Are those sides different sizes?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Are those sides different sizes?


 Yes, One side is slanted to allow for belt clearance, therefore it is a little longer.


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## Skaffles (May 27, 2011)

:thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Ordered a aluminum heat exchanger yesterday. 

26" x 7" x 2" 


I also pick up a spool gun and tank for tacking eveything in place to have someone tig it for me. A tig welder is not in the cards for me at this time. My money tree isnt liking the weather I guess.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Heat exchanger came in. 

Heres a comparison picture of the IC and heat exchanger. I can see why bell ICs are more expensive, a ton more surface area.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is what I am thinking for the pulleys. Both will be attached to the same "bar" mount that move the stock idler (green) towards the back of the motor and a second pulley (yellow) straight out from that. The red pulley is the approximate location of the s/c pulley.











I finished the jig for the plenum. I also started tacking some pieces in place and became inpatient, waiting for someone else to tig weld it so Im going the mig and grind method 

I can always make another one. 

I will be having someone tig the one flange to the C2 flange, that I would not want to buy a second time. The rest will be "modular"/bolt on. That way if in the future I want to cut a big hole in my hood I and throw a M90 on there 


Any ideas on getting the modular pulley mount off. I have tried 2 different pulley pullers. One pulled the threads out and the other just slips off. I will take some pictures of this tonight, to see if I can get some input/help.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

mldouthi said:


> Any ideas on getting the modular pulley mount off. .


Which pulley?
Also you might want to make the crank / ac comp belt your supercharger drive belt as well.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

INA said:


> Which pulley?
> Also you might want to make the crank / ac comp belt your supercharger drive belt as well.


I will have to look into that. Im not sure how far forward the s/c pulley will be, if there will be a straight line for the belt to run. 



This is the modular "hub" that the pulley bolts to on the s/c that I need off. Its a 4 bolt and I have the smaller 5 bolt version from zzp that I need to put on.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

mldouthi said:


> I will have to look into that. Im not sure how far forward the s/c pulley will be, if there will be a straight line for the belt to run.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the modular "hub" that the pulley bolts to on the s/c that I need off. Its a 4 bolt and I have the smaller 5 bolt version from zzp that I need to put on.


if I recall you change the entire snout from Eaton units. I have not played with one of those in a while.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

INA said:


> if I recall you change the entire snout from Eaton units. I have not played with one of those in a while.


I have the other modular pulley hub, and on zzp's wedsite it says they are press on. They want $100 for a puller to get them off. I am trying to not have to spend that for a one time use tool.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Torch plus puller?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Torch plus puller?


Havent tried that yet. 


New house = No torch :facepalm: Off to lowes at lunch.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Bummer, even just a plumbers torch is probably enough. Or rather, hopefully enough.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Bummer, even just a plumbers torch is probably enough. Or rather, hopefully enough.


Thats what I need to get. Benzomatic! 



Work will be slow on the plenum this week, I have to get another project out for my gf's dance company by this weekend.


----------



## Tommy<3vag (Feb 12, 2012)

Can't wait to see this thing in action opcorn:


----------



## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

good progress! :thumbup:


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

an item INA just posted o FB.


A/C delete and 2.5 20V Power Steering install kit 









posting here because it might be helpful for the SC pulley set up


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

nice. the 2.5l is finally getting some attention. lots of new parts coming in this yr


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> an item INA just posted o FB.
> 
> 
> A/C delete and 2.5 20V Power Steering install kit
> ...


Cool thanks. 

I think I am still going to have to run the belt of the acc. belt. I dont want to reduce the wrap on the a/c (crank a/c belt) that much because it needs that wrap to drive everything.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

mldouthi said:


> Cool thanks.
> 
> I think I am still going to have to run the belt of the acc. belt. I dont want to reduce the wrap on the a/c (crank a/c belt) that much because it needs that wrap to drive everything.


What you could do is have a dual idler pulley made for the inner tensioner so that way you can leave it as a dummy on the main drive (which now runs in parallel with the main tensioner). Much better system than trying to make it run off the secondary acc belt.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

INA said:


> What you could do is have a dual idler pulley made for the inner tensioner so that way you can leave it as a dummy on the main drive (which now runs in parallel with the main tensioner). Much better system than trying to make it run off the secondary acc belt.


So have the s/c run off an idler? Im not sure which one is the main and inner tensioners.


Thanks for the input.:beer:


That a/c delete looks great btw. :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Like this 















If anyone has any ideas, here is the default picture I am using. MS paint it up.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

So, double up the green. You will have to have two separate pulleys because they will be spinning different speeds but you have a mounting point at least.










Edit: changed pic to make it a little more clear what i meant. Everything is off the crank/ac belt.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> So, double up the green. You will have to have two separate pulleys because they will be spinning different speeds but you have a mounting point at least.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The loss of rap is what I would be worried about here (redline) but I havent messed with belts much so I dont know how big a deal this would be. And the reason for concern is I wouldnt want it to slip there because then it will slow everything acc. wise down. 

That definitely looks the easiest. Thanks!


I will also have to recalculate the belt speeds, and possibly get a larger s/c pulley to keep the boost in the range I want.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Could make a bracket going in between the two lower idler pulleys to put the new pulley on to gain some of that wrap back.

I really don't know what exists in there for good mounting points for brackets and stuff though.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Could make a bracket going in between the two lower idler pulleys to put the new pulley on to gain some of that wrap back.
> 
> I really don't know what exists in there for good mounting points for brackets and stuff though.


I just thought about this. Use your idea, but use a bigger outside idler. That would achive a little more wrap.


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, when this is all complete can I drive your car? :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I can't wait to see this. Seriously, I just put extra money into savings to get this.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I just thought about this. Use your idea, but use a bigger outside idler. That would achive a little more wrap.


Good thinking! Do you know how the idler pulleys are mounted? Just wondering if stacking them will even be possible.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Good thinking! Do you know how the idler pulleys are mounted? Just wondering if stacking them will even be possible.


The top 2 look like the mounts have studs attached, so they are held on with a nut. and the bottom right (one your talking about doubling) looks to be mounted with a bolt. So thats a good sign. Maybe just a standoff and longer bolt.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

itskohler said:


> Just out of curiosity, when this is all complete can I drive your car? :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> I can't wait to see this. Seriously, I just put extra money into savings to get this.


I hope I could make this a kit some day. But I doubt that would work very well since Im using a used s/c. haha. Maybe sell it as a "kit"


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Will definitely buy this "kit" one everything works out :thumbup:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> The top 2 look like the mounts have studs attached, so they are held on with a nut. and the bottom right (one your talking about doubling) looks to be mounted with a bolt. So thats a good sign. Maybe just a standoff and longer bolt.


Sweet! I was hoping that was the case.

You could sell the intake, modified pulley and belt set up and the buyer would have to source their own SC. Leaving you with just the fun part  I tell you if i wasn't broken and had tools id be all up in this **** with you.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

mldouthi said:


>


That is correct.
Only difference is when you atcually make the dual idler , I would make the "green" pulley larger in diameter. This would allow more rap around the A/C compressor and the supercharger.
Reality is you are going with a sub-6 rib belt. Most supercharger applications they guys are running 7+ ribs!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

INA said:


> That is correct.
> Only difference is when you atcually make the dual idler , I would make the "green" pulley larger in diameter. This would allow more rap around the A/C compressor and the supercharger.
> Reality is you are going with a sub-6 rib belt. Most supercharger applications they guys are running 7+ ribs!


Thanks. 

Yeah the pulley for the s/c is a 8 rib.

Looks like I need to try to find some large diameter idlers. They seem pretty standard sizes to me. Maybe just have to make one.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

mldouthi said:


> Maybe just have to make one.


You will have to make one.:thumbup:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Any reason why the crank and ac pulleys couldn't be made wider?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Any reason why the crank and ac pulleys couldn't be made wider?


It is pretty close to the frame rail, but it might be possible to squeeze a rib or 2 in there, but then that would require fabricating new crank and a/c pulleys also.


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

What other parts are you looking to have fab'd up for this to be complete?


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> It is pretty close to the frame rail, but it might be possible to squeeze a rib or 2 in there, but then that would require fabricating new crank and a/c pulleys also.


If you have access to a lathe that shouldn't be terribly difficult. if you cant get anything wider could you run a belt with the ribs running across the belt? I know that would mean fabricating new pulleys but you would have less of a chance at slippage.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

itskohler said:


> What other parts are you looking to have fab'd up for this to be complete?


Parts left to fab up:

Top flange/supercharger mount for the plenum
Caps for awic
Plumbing for awic
Heat exchanger mounts
Coolant res.
Large diameter idler with standoff
Throttle body mount/flange
Finish welding the plenum

Thats what I can think of off the top of my head.





DerekH said:


> If you have access to a lathe that shouldn't be terribly difficult. if you cant get anything wider could you run a belt with the ribs running across the belt? I know that would mean fabricating new pulleys but you would have less of a chance at slippage.


I have a mini lathe  haha I dont know if I would trust that for making these parts. The guy that cnc'd the flanges for me occastionally lets me use his machines there. That might be an option. As for the cross rib belt that would require making new pulleys also including the s/c pulley.


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Are those parts already designed and just waiting to be produced, or are they starting from the ground up?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

itskohler said:


> Are those parts already designed and just waiting to be produced, or are they starting from the ground up?






> Parts left to fab up:


Top flange/supercharger mount for the plenum *(Designed, but I need to find out how far left to right the s/c hole needs to go. I can do this after finishing the plenum)*

Caps for awic *(Designed, just need to cut and fold some material and weld it all together)*

Plumbing for awic *(Designed, but still need to buy a pump, lines and fittings)*

Heat exchanger mounts *(Not Designed, this I need the car "apart" for and its my DD)*

Coolant res. *(Somewhat Desinged, Just using a 4" tube with caps and fittings. Still need to work up a mount for that)*

Large diameter idler with standoff *(Not Designed)*

Throttle body mount/flange *(No Designed, But should wont be hard, I just need to take the measurements. Only take a couple hours once I start)*

Finish welding the plenum * (Designed, just need to DW)*


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

You might be able to find cross ribbed pulleys and modify them. It would be ideal but i do understand it would be more work than using what you have. but may be less work than making wider pulleys


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> You might be able to find cross ribbed pulleys and modify them. It would be ideal but i do understand it would be more work than using what you have. but may be less work than making wider pulleys




I think I will try to 6 rib and see what happens, then cross the slippage road when I get there.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, that makes sense.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Heres the calcs for running off the crank a/c belt.

Crank Pulley Dia = 6
S/C Pulley O = 2.6
Ratio = 2.307
6200 rpm input (Crank) = 14303.4 rpm output (S/C)

s/c rpm multiply it by .03531 to get CFM
14303.4 S/C rpm * .0351 = 502.05 CFM


2.5 engine can inhale 271 CFM of air (151.33 cubic inches*6200RPM/3464)

Excess air = 502.05– 271 = 231.05 “boosted” CFM

Boost = excess CFM / normal CFM * atmospheric pressure
231.05 / 271 * 14.7 = *12.5* pounds boost 



I might be buying a bigger pulley to start out with. 


I dont remember where I got this formula from, is it correct? It looks right to me but.... 

Thanks:beer::beer:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

stock motor?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Heres the calcs for running off the crank a/c belt.
> 
> Crank Pulley Dia = 6
> S/C Pulley O = 2.6
> ...


I probably wouldnt see this pressure due to loss from intercooler and being out of the efficiency range of the m62. 


But once this this s/c works Im sure I will want to use a M90


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> stock motor?


Yessir

I was only wanting to run like 7 or 8 psi.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Interesting graphs on the M62












Also the 3.1 pulley with put me right around where I want to be, just over 8 psi


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

What kind of power will these motors hold on stock internals? Will a head gasket spacer help this number?



I dropped off the C2 flange and my flange at a friends house to tig weld for me. Should have it back in a week or so. 

Sorry for the slow progress. After this weekend I should be able to spend more time on this. eace:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

100% stock can do 250-270?
head spacer over 300


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

usually 280 (crank) is what people push them to.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> 100% stock can do 250-270?
> head spacer over 300





thygreyt said:


> usually 280 (crank) is what people push them to.


:thumbup::thumbup:

and :beer::beer::beer::beer:

to you guys. What a response time


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lol... no life?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I also ordered the middle idler and bracket so I can use that to make the new pulley and mount without having my car un-usable. 

And...... My vagcom came in yesterday


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## cracKness (Feb 20, 2007)

mldouthi said:


> I also ordered the middle idler and bracket so I can use that to make the new pulley and mount without having my car un-usable.
> 
> And...... My vagcom came in yesterday


Dude... seriously, I wish I could reach the level of your awesomeness. :thumbup::thumbup::beer:

Edit: Not directed at this post, more just towards the whole inventing a S/C for the rabbit and the micro monster truck thread :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Idler assembly modeled, and the material to start turning it should be on my doorstep.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Pretty stoked man, it really looks awesome. Can't wait to see this project finished!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

A little update. I recieved this picture from my friend that tig welding the lower plenum flange to the C2 flange.

Should be done soon.











I also finished welding (mig) the plenum last night. No pictures of that yet.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> 100% stock can do 250-270?
> head spacer over 300


We have multiple stock motors pushing over 300hp. Without a headspacer. One of them put down 310whp and has been running that way for over 20k.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> We have multiple stock motors pushing over 300hp. Without a headspacer. One of them put down 310whp and has been running that way for over 20k.


Awesome thanks. I am just trying to decide which pulley to get. The one I have will put me at 12psi which I feel is to much for a stock motor.


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## 2pt5_20v_pwr (Jul 19, 2011)

mldouthi said:


> Awesome thanks. I am just trying to decide which pulley to get. The one I have will put me at 12psi which I feel is to much for a stock motor.


I think 12-13psi is about the most I would do for a daily but the stock motor will handle that no problem


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

2pt5_20v_pwr said:


> I think 12-13psi is about the most I would do for a daily but the stock motor will handle that no problem


Thanks, Maybe I will try this small pulley then. The calcs show around 12.5psi, But Im sure I will have some loss in pressure from the i/c and plenum friction.





Thanks for everyones help :beer:


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Thanks, Maybe I will try this small pulley then. The calcs show around 12.5psi, But Im sure I will have some loss in pressure from the i/c and plenum friction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


couldnt you use a head spacer worst case scenario


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nickbeezy said:


> couldnt you use a head spacer worst case scenario


Yes, or a bigger pulley.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Baseline dyno












tq = 173
hp= 142


[video]http://s1082.photobucket.com/albums/j363/mldouthi/?action=view&current=MOV04173.mp4[/video]


This was a 4th gear pull. I bearly made it to 5500 rpm. haha.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

longest pull ever! wow....


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

I cant wait to see this completed...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

More work without actually doing work. Here is the model of the part I am going to try to cast. 




























A couple faces will need machined and then a supercharger/intercooler plate with be added to the top that will allow for fine adjustments to line the belt up.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

And real work done. 

4" Idler


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

nice, im stoked about this build


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

It would be pretty sweet if you were able to cast that. Then you could sell them. On another note though. there is a lot of unsupported material on there, not to mention the extra torsional stress that you'll be getting from the belt tension. Have you factored all that into your design? id hate to see that flange break or the runners break off at the flange.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

loving this! 

opcorn:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

DerekH is spot on...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> It would be pretty sweet if you were able to cast that. Then you could sell them. On another note though. there is a lot of unsupported material on there, not to mention the extra torsional stress that you'll be getting from the belt tension. Have you factored all that into your design? id hate to see that flange break or the runners break off at the flange.


 Yes, there are sections with thicker walls for me to drill and tap for supports. The rest of the manifold is .125 wall. with .625 flanges after milling (top and bottom)


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

Any estimated time of completion on this? I love this idea and am so excited to see it finished! I'm a very impatient person!!! Lol.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

MasterJetti08 said:


> Any estimated time of completion on this? I love this idea and am so excited to see it finished! I'm a very impatient person!!! Lol.


 I wouldnt even want to guess for a timeline. I work on it every chance I get but this car is also my DD at the moment so some things I cant do in an evening and have the car ready to drive the next day. 

I now have to build a foundry to make the casting aswell. And I am at the mercy of getting my parts 3D printed, I am getting them done for free so I cant say much about how long it take


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

It would also be nice to have someone else in my area that wanted to do more than buy parts for there 2.5  

It would get done alot faster if that was the case.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Yes, there are sections with thicker walls for me to drill and tap for supports. The rest of the manifold is .125 wall. with .625 flanges after milling (top and bottom)


 Glad to see you are thinking ahead. I am no engineer but i would say you might want to add some gussets from the top of the runners to the plenum. There should be space to do it and you might as well have the extra strength in there. You planning on casting in aluminum?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Glad to see you are thinking ahead. I am no engineer but i would say you might want to add some gussets from the top of the runners to the plenum. There should be space to do it and you might as well have the extra strength in there. You planning on casting in aluminum?


 Yes I will be casting it from aluminum. The gussets would have to go on the bottom due to the fuel rail. I will put some thought in to gussets but I was planning on supporting it from the right side (pulley side) and the bottom (lowest point, furthest away from the runners) 

I have not sent the model yet to be printed so things can still be changed. I have never made an intake before let alone one for a supercharger. All input is welcome.:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Innovator at work. :beer:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I know someone who make a mold, and maybe even cast it...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is a very crude analysis I did on the manifold before leaving work. I will make a better one tomorrow with the forces of the belt added as well. 

This takes gravity and a 50lb load on the s/c surface. 

Deflection 








Max deflection = .175mm 


Stress


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I know someone who make a mold, and maybe even cast it...


 Who is that? 


I bought/aquired all the material to make everything. Just mixing/putting it all together now. I will be using greensand to cast, it would be awesome to have a more permanet mold though


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Who is that?
> 
> 
> I bought/aquired all the material to make everything. Just mixing/putting it all together now. I will be using greensand to cast, it would be awesome to have a more permanet mold though


 Can't say right now sorry. I'm gonna ask him. For insight he casts the hpa intake manifold clones you find on eBay.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Can't say right now sorry. I'm gonna ask him. For insight he casts the hpa intake manifold clones you find on eBay.


 Well then I would perfer him not to get his hands on my mold without paying for it  haha


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Yes I will be casting it from aluminum. The gussets would have to go on the bottom due to the fuel rail. I will put some thought in to gussets but I was planning on supporting it from the right side (pulley side) and the bottom (lowest point, furthest away from the runners)
> 
> I have not sent the model yet to be printed so things can still be changed. I have never made an intake before let alone one for a supercharger. All input is welcome.:thumbup:


 Yes, that is what i was thinking for adding the gussets. They wouldn't make as much of a difference on the top side. The stress is exactly where i would have expected it to be. If you add something from about half way up the runner to a third of the way in on the plenum it should help even out those forces. 

Remember that the super charger pulley will be above the top surface of the plenum and off one end. adding torsional forces as well as compression. 

I really wish i was able to get my hands dirty with this build. I am very impressed with your work so far.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Well then I would perfer him not to get his hands on my mold without paying for it  haha


 If you ever want to commercially sell them let me know. I own a business, and can whip these up, market them, and find sellers. DEI would be on that list for sure.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Yes, that is what i was thinking for adding the gussets. They wouldn't make as much of a difference on the top side. The stress is exactly where i would have expected it to be. If you add something from about half way up the runner to a third of the way in on the plenum it should help even out those forces.
> 
> Remember that the super charger pulley will be above the top surface of the plenum and off one end. adding torsional forces as well as compression.
> 
> I really wish i was able to get my hands dirty with this build. I am very impressed with your work so far.



Got it. I thought I read gussets on top. I will not be able to put a gusset centered on the left most runner because that side barely clears the motor (where the vac line is attached to the stock intake, lower left) But I could increase the material thickness in that area or put gussets on the 2nd and 4th runner to help out. Or move the gusset further out.

Yes I understand about where the force from the s/c will be applied, I just didnt have time to model it before leaving work. I will make the s/c much more ridged that what it actually so that it transfers most of the stress to the manifold itself.

Thank you for your complements as well. I am very thankful for all the information and help I get from all of you on here. I do love the amount I am learning from doing all the processes myself, but it would be nice to have another set of hands working on this. 





kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> If you ever want to commercially sell them let me know. I own a business, and can whip these up, market them, and find sellers. DEI would be on that list for sure.


I will definitely keep that in mind. I would need to spend alot more money and more designing if I did that so that I could set the kit up with a "new" s/c, not one off some other car. Thanks for looking out. :beer:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I will definitely keep that in mind. I would need to spend alot more money and more designing if I did that so that I could set the kit up with a "new" s/c, not one off some other car. Thanks for looking out. :beer:


Ya think about it. Harrop chargers can be used...


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Got it. I thought I read gussets on top. I will not be able to put a gusset centered on the left most runner because that side barely clears the motor (where the vac line is attached to the stock intake, lower left) But I could increase the material thickness in that area or put gussets on the 2nd and 4th runner to help out. Or move the gusset further out.
> 
> Yes I understand about where the force from the s/c will be applied, I just didnt have time to model it before leaving work. I will make the s/c much more ridged that what it actually so that it transfers most of the stress to the manifold itself.
> 
> Thank you for your complements as well. I am very thankful for all the information and help I get from all of you on here. I do love the amount I am learning from doing all the processes myself, but it would be nice to have another set of hands working on this.


I think that is a good approach, id also say you might want to beef up the outer corners near the runners if you can. seems like there is some additional stress there that may fail from fatigue eventually.

Over all i am very very excited to see this coming along, i hope that one day i can run this setup on my car. With a bigger supercharger of course


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I think that is a good approach, id also say you might want to beef up the outer corners near the runners if you can. seems like there is some additional stress there that may fail from fatigue eventually.
> 
> Over all i am very very excited to see this coming along, i hope that one day i can run this setup on my car. With a bigger supercharger of course



The new stree analysis will have to wait until monday. I stayed home from work today.


As for the bigger s/c thats why I just left a big whole in the top for a s/c "adaptor" plate.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> The new stree analysis will have to wait until monday. I stayed home from work today.
> 
> 
> As for the bigger s/c thats why I just left a big whole in the top for a s/c "adaptor" plate.


Good man, glad to see you were thinking about me when you designed this


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Same design with s/c added




















And this is with braces added to the corners


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## Rabbidrabbitt (Mar 21, 2011)

I cant wait to hear this thing :thumbup:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Looks like that helped a lot. I was thinking something more along the lines of fins under plenum that attached to the runners. I ms painted up a pic. Please excuse the butchery of your otherwise very nicely modeled intake.











They should probably be a little longer than they are there, and they could be curved if they need to clear anything.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I wouldnt be able to make braces like that, the motor mount that runs under the left most port is about .25" from the plenum at the moment, so there is no room whatsoever under that runner. I added 2 braces like that to the 2nd and 4th runner and didnt notice much change in the stresses on the runners on the ends. These numbers are only showing the forces being handled by the plenum itself. I will be using support bars that run to the motor on the pulley side and one from the bottom. 

These show a 50lb force as the "weight" of the s/c and a 50lb pull of the belt. 


Here is some more ms paint on your picture to show where the mount is located (roughly)












And here you can see the actual mount, right above the alt.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Makes total sense. Is there enough clearance to add something like this.










Just on the outside of the plenum. or for that matter it could be done on the inside of the plenum in the same spot. Just worried about the higher stress in those corners. That as well as the gussets on the 2nd and 4th runner should be lots of structure.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I will cut this side profile out of foam before 3d printing it to make sure everything fits. But I will look tomorrow at what adding that support does. I also tried using a .5in port enterance radius which also didnt change the amount of stress in the corners much. The enterances have a .25 radius right now. 

.3 mm of movement is not alot when held by only the flange. Althought that being said I dont know exactly what forces will be applied by the s/c or belt.

Thanks for the input. 


I also bought a couple more things today at lunch, sodium silicate and bentonite, so now I have everything needed for making my molds, core molds and foundry.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I will cut this side profile out of foam before 3d printing it to make sure everything fits. But I will look tomorrow at what adding that support does. I also tried using a .5in port enterance radius which also didnt change the amount of stress in the corners much. The enterances have a .25 radius right now.
> 
> .3 mm of movement is not alot when held by only the flange. Althought that being said I dont know exactly what forces will be applied by the s/c or belt.
> 
> ...


Agreed, its probably over kill, but over kill is better than not enough, um kill. If you know what i mean lol.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Agreed, its probably over kill, but over kill is better than not enough, um kill. If you know what i mean lol.


Very true. :laugh: ...... kill


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

More models

This has 3 braces, one on each middle runner. I know there is room for this.





















This has the same 3 braces as above but also has smaller ones on the end runners. I dont know if there is room for this.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

looks SO much better!


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Huh, that's pretty impressive. Reduced the stress on those corners by like 30% just with the 3 pieces. And almost 50% with the addition of the end bits. If those aren't going to fit maybe just thicken up the material in that corner. Still seems like a lot of force though. but again it is without the additional support. Any way of mocking that up too? Man computers are cool lol. Also, i wonder if changing the radius will make a difference now with the load redistributed so much.

Tell me to **** off any time by the way. If you get sick of hearing my ideas i totally understand lol. I know you are working quite hard on this and i would imagine hearing from the peanut gallery all the time is pretty tiring. Great work so far!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Huh, that's pretty impressive. Reduced the stress on those corners by like 30% just with the 3 pieces. And almost 50% with the addition of the end bits. If those aren't going to fit maybe just thicken up the material in that corner. Still seems like a lot of force though. but again it is without the additional support. Any way of mocking that up too? Man computers are cool lol. Also, i wonder if changing the radius will make a difference now with the load redistributed so much.
> 
> Tell me to **** off any time by the way. If you get sick of hearing my ideas i totally understand lol. I know you are working quite hard on this and i would imagine hearing from the peanut gallery all the time is pretty tiring. Great work so far!


I changed the radius of the ports to .3 also in these models. Thats as much as I can do without interfering with other parts. I also wish I could angle those 3 supports out, to add support to the edges instead of having the braces on the outer ports but the mold/casting process limits me to straight down.

I will have to check into making the material in that area thicker. I have never messed with multi-thickness shells before. 

I am all for the help. I love having more opinions, especially when this is the first time I have tried making something like this. And if I get this process down, maybe I will be able to work on a cheaper SRI solution as well 


Another thing to think about, if you havent noticed that the yeild strength of the material is 275,000,000 N/m^2 and the max the plenum is seeing is 32,000,000 unsupported with the 3 middle supports, which gives a safety factor of 8.5.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

And this is closer to what the actual stresses will be with the bottom end mounted. I have it set at fixed, which is incorrect but close. 

This is with .3 radius runner inlets and the 3 center braces.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, i noticed the strength of the material. I guess i just had in mind that casting isn't always perfect and engines tend to vibrate a lot which is pretty good at causing fatigue.

I cant see why you couldn't have the supports on runners 2 and 4 kick off at 45 degrees. 
Kind of like this: \|/

I don't really know a lot about casting processes so i could be misunderstanding what you are saying.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Yeah, i noticed the strength of the material. I guess i just had in mind that casting isn't always perfect and engines tend to vibrate a lot which is pretty good at causing fatigue.
> 
> I cant see why you couldn't have the supports on runners 2 and 4 kick off at 45 degrees.
> Kind of like this: \|/
> ...


\l/ is not possible with a 2 half mold. It would cause, undercuts on the back sides of the "fins". The parting line will go straight through the runners (longways) to create 2 halves. Then each half will be used to make a mold. If I were to make a mold around the 45 deg braces, I would not be able to pull the part out of the mold, as those 2 fins would have material in the way. I would need a 4 part mold to make this work and would be very complicated, especially for my first try at casting.

Does that make sense?


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> \l/ is not possible with a 2 half mold. It would cause, undercuts on the back sides of the "fins". The parting line will go straight through the runners (longways) to create 2 halves. Then each half will be used to make a mold. If I were to make a mold around the 45 deg braces, I would not be able to pull the part out of the mold, as those 2 fins would have material in the way. I would need a 4 part mold to make this work and would be very complicated, especially for my first try at casting.
> 
> Does that make sense?


Ah, ok i didn't realize that was the way you were going to cast it. I had assumed a lost wax sand casting. Like straight up one off, but i guess this makes more sense if you are going to make more than one or possibly sell the design later on.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Ah, ok i didn't realize that was the way you were going to cast it. I had assumed a lost wax sand casting. Like straight up one off, but i guess this makes more sense if you are going to make more than one or possibly sell the design later on.


Like you said the problem with lost was is repeatability because Im sure the build process for this casting will be melt, pour, :facepalm:, cut up, melt, pour, 


I could do a lost wax but I would still want make a mold to pour the wax into, I dont want to have to carve this by hand


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Very nicely done (from my aerospace engineering background). I agree with the braces and I liked what you have done. I know one of the hardest steps is to find a material and then a process or vice versa if you really like a process, then find a suitable material. I saw you mention casting... but from the pictures i've seen from C2 don't they weld theirs? Have you considered this? Since this one will be a 1 off unless you are thinking of producing multiple and selling them. Also take into account fatigue and the cyclic loading when choosing a material, but you probably knew this already. It's always going to be a game of give and take between material costs and properties. I really like what you have so far! good job!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Anile_eight said:


> Very nicely done (from my aerospace engineering background). I agree with the braces and I liked what you have done. I know one of the hardest steps is to find a material and then a process or vice versa if you really like a process, then find a suitable material. I saw you mention casting... but from the pictures i've seen from C2 don't they weld theirs? Have you considered this? Since this one will be a 1 off unless you are thinking of producing multiple and selling them. Also take into account fatigue and the cyclic loading when choosing a material, but you probably knew this already. It's always going to be a game of give and take between material costs and properties. I really like what you have so far! good job!


Thanks, yeah I am looking into casting because I like the idea of repeatability. I have had a couple people ask if I could make more once I finish mine. 

C2 does weld there plenum, but in doing that it also requires CNC'd parts which need to be bought in quantity to keep the price down (I dont have the money for that). With casting I am able to only spend the money on the materials because I have a source to 3d print the models for free that will be used to make the mold. Also I do not have a tig welder, and therefore would need to pay someone to weld it for me. And on top of all that, with the SRI a little warping due to welding isnt a problem. That is a big problem with a s/c plenum as it needs to stay "straight" with the motor. I have tried welding a plenum for this and I had some warping, both on the flange and the plenum (tig and mig tried). I posted some pictures of the tig welded flange. The mig welded plenum would need ground down to make it look nice, but I didnt bother since it had warped.

I plan to cast the plenum myself then all I will need to pay someone else to do is face the 2 sides and drill the injector holes. I have some scrap 413 aluminum from work that I am going to use for the first casting. I also thought of just going and buying some old cast manifolds off cars such as the cobalt ss that my s/c came off of and using that material. They have done the research and Ill just use there material


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Thanks, yeah I am looking into casting because I like the idea of repeatability. I have had a couple people ask if I could make more once I finish mine.
> 
> C2 does weld there plenum, but in doing that it also requires CNC'd parts which need to be bought in quantity to keep the price down (I dont have the money for that). With casting I am able to only spend the money on the materials because I have a source to 3d print the models for free that will be used to make the mold. Also I do not have a tig welder, and therefore would need to pay someone to weld it for me. And on top of all that, with the SRI a little warping due to welding isnt a problem. That is a big problem with a s/c plenum as it needs to stay "straight" with the motor. I have tried welding a plenum for this and I had some warping, both on the flange and the plenum (tig and mig tried). I posted some pictures of the tig welded flange. The mig welded plenum would need ground down to make it look nice, but I didnt bother since it had warped.
> 
> I plan to cast the plenum myself then all I will need to pay someone else to do is face the 2 sides and drill the injector holes. I have some scrap 413 aluminum from work that I am going to use for the first casting. I also thought of just going and buying some old cast manifolds off cars such as the cobalt ss that my s/c came off of and using that material. They have done the research and Ill just use there material


That is well thought out and I think that should work perfectly fine. Good luck and I can't wait to see more updates!


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I would guess using old manifolds would be rather pricy. They probably have a materials number on the manifold though. If you are able to check that it might be helpful. Also, i wonder if you could get scrap aluminum from engine blocks or something. Normally the shred them so they would be in good condition for melting and would probably be pretty cheap too. I really don't have a lot of ideas for you on that front. Only other good source for aluminum that i can think of is old wheels. You can probably get 75-100 pounds of aluminum from an old set of oem wheels and you can get them for like 50 bucks. Should be high quality aluminum too.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I would guess using old manifolds would be rather pricy. They probably have a materials number on the manifold though. If you are able to check that it might be helpful. Also, i wonder if you could get scrap aluminum from engine blocks or something. Normally the shred them so they would be in good condition for melting and would probably be pretty cheap too. I really don't have a lot of ideas for you on that front. Only other good source for aluminum that i can think of is old wheels. You can probably get 75-100 pounds of aluminum from an old set of oem wheels and you can get them for like 50 bucks. Should be high quality aluminum too.


Nice, yeah I didnt think about old wheels. 

I will need to melt about 15 lbs of aluminum per manifold. The manifold will use around 10 lbs of material so the extra is for loss in the crucible and to fill sprue holes. 


I also checked and the yeild strength of 413 alum is 144,000,000 N/m^2 so its quite a bit less than what I have modeled. 413 isnt a default option in solidworks so ill have to add it to see what changes.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

What type of aluminum was solidworks using? 413 is pretty much half the strength of what it was using. Would not have guessed that at all.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> What type of aluminum was solidworks using? 413 is pretty much half the strength of what it was using. Would not have guessed that at all.


6061, because I have some of that scrap at my house as well, but im not sure how well it will cast.


Would not have gusseted what at all?


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

i wouldn't have guessed that 413 was that much weaker. Might be able to get scrap 6061 from an airplane wreckers for cheap. it cant see why it would have any issues with casting but i suppose it is normally used for extruded or billet stuff isn't it?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> i wouldn't have guessed that 413 was that much weaker. Might be able to get scrap 6061 from an airplane wreckers for cheap. it cant see why it would have any issues with casting but i suppose it is normally used for extruded or billet stuff isn't it?


Sorry that was my mistake, I misread your last post. 

As for 6061, yes, it is more for extruded and machined parts. From what I can see there are about 5 grades of "casting" aluminum. A couple 300 series and two 400. I havent done any research as to why one is better than the other for casting. From what I see on casting forums, they just melt down whatever they have, one guy was even melting down the tubes off some old broken lawn furniture he had, haha.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

After reading a little more, there are lots of casting alloys and 6061 should not be cast, its possible but there are casting alloys that are just as stong like 713. Which apparently takes like 21 days to gain full strength.


----------



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> After reading a little more, there are lots of casting alloys and 6061 should not be cast, its possible but there are casting alloys that are just as stong like 713. Which apparently takes like 21 days to gain full strength.


Yea, I was going to say, 6061 is getting up towards aircraft grade and they are specifically hardened. To cast them you'll have to bring it past it's annealing point which it would lose all of it's gained strength from the hardening, which would turn it very soft yet tough. But you don't need a tough material you need a strong material with capacity to be cast


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

713 sounds like a cool option, keeps you from having to harden it. The only downside is you have 3 weeks of staring at it before you can use it lol. Do you know if you can recast it too? sure would suck if you had 5 pounds of waste every time you cast one.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> 713 sounds like a cool option, keeps you from having to harden it. The only downside is you have 3 weeks of staring at it before you can use it lol. Do you know if you can recast it too? sure would suck if you had 5 pounds of waste every time you cast one.


Yes, just reheat :thumbup:

And that would be 3 weeks before I can machine it, then use it. I have lots more work to do to the car so that 3 weeks would go by quickly. Now I just need to source some 713. I have some spare alloy wheels at my parents house and a guy form work has some wheels that are cracked he is going to give me. I need to check what there made of.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I worked on the foundry this weekend. I will also be making some tweeks to the cad model after taking the manifold off again and test fitting the foam cutout. 


What I started with 










Cut in half and added some cardboard 









The special ingredients 









What I was left with 










It will need to cure for about 4 days and then I will need to fire it. I will be building the burner in the time being. 

I also test fit the mock foam manifold and I will need to make a couple changes. I will work on those today.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I can't imagine that thing is light. where are you getting your aluminum?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I can't imagine that thing is light. where are you getting your aluminum?


 Yes its certainly not light, haha. but it will hold some heat in.  


I havent sourced the alum yet. I will probably use the stuff I have here for a first test. But the slight changes turned into a little more trouble on the model. So I am pretty much having to redo the model so it will be another week or so, then another foam test fit.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

That's a bummer, what wasn't fitting right?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> That's a bummer, what wasn't fitting right?


 The angle of the s/c was like maybe 10 deg off and the part that hangs down was hitting one of the hard lines. 

And since the 2 faces arent parallel I will have to think about a new way to make the manifold because I would like the parting line to be straight.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> The angle of the s/c was like maybe 10 deg off and the part that hangs down was hitting one of the hard lines.
> 
> And since the 2 faces arent parallel I will have to think about a new way to make the manifold because I would like the parting line to be straight.


 Should be an easy enough fix though. i was a little concerned you were going to have to do a full redesign.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Should be an easy enough fix though. i was a little concerned you were going to have to do a full redesign.


 No nothing like that. but pretty much completely remodel it. 

Im also going to get some green foam and press down into the bay area so I know exactly what profile I can get away with. But that will have to wait for a weekend.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

A couple of things having halfway scanned the last 2 pages... 

Your belt tension is low I think- Where did you get the 50 lb figure? A quick google makes me think it may be about double that... Then remember that you have the tension on both sides of the pulley- so double it again! Also, that force is cantilevered out significantly far out there on the blower nose- it's going to create a moment around the entire part and load up harder on that end cylinder... I can't really tell where you are applying the load, but it may be something you want to check. 


Also, have you considered the dynamic loading created by blower drive torque? Vibration will be a major issue as well I think with that heavy of a mass hanging out there... I would check the natural frequency as well- it may be low with that big old mass out there and a sufficiently soft / springy system. 

Food for thoughts.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

^ those were my thoughts, at least the first part.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> A couple of things having halfway scanned the last 2 pages...
> 
> Your belt tension is low I think- Where did you get the 50 lb figure? A quick google makes me think it may be about double that... Then remember that you have the tension on both sides of the pulley- so double it again! Also, that force is cantilevered out significantly far out there on the blower nose- it's going to create a moment around the entire part and load up harder on that end cylinder... I can't really tell where you are applying the load, but it may be something you want to check.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the input. The 50lb figure was just a guess as this isnt a "real" test anyway because I am going to support the plenum as well, not just bolt it on. I applied the force (weight) of the s/c in the downward direction along with gravity, and the belt force I applied perpendicular to the direction of pull on the nose of the s/c, therefore solidworks takes into account the torsional force from having the force on the end of the s/c. If you look in the last couple models you can see the stress is higher on the runner closer to the nose of the s/c. 


I have been doing more research on other s/c (roots) kits for hondas, cobalts, etc. (4 cylinders) and looking at the intake designs on those and they seem to have a much smaller plenum feeding the runners. So I might try that with the new design, mimic something similar to what another company has done. 

If I am able to make the plenum smaller I will be able to add better bracing on the manifold. 


Something similar to this with more runners  
http://tykoh88.blogspot.com/2011/05/swift-sport-greddy-supercharger-kit.html 



I am not able to do vibration analysis, because I dont have that capability. Although Im pretty sure we are about to upgrade at work, which will include vibration analysis. I dont think this will be as big of a problem as the end of the plenum will be supported. You mentioned the weight hanging down, and that part will have supports running to the motor, so it wont be hanging. I would agree with you otherwise. 


Thanks again for the input.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

Reading this thread is always the highlight of my day.... I have NO idea what you guys are talking about half the time but it's better than reading about offsets and suspensions :laugh:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Reading this thread is always the highlight of my day.... I have NO idea what you guys are talking about half the time but it's better than reading about offsets and suspensions :laugh:


 Haha, Awesome.  


Hopefully some day soon I will be sending you guys my ecu for a tune and getting some bigger injectors. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Haha, Awesome.
> 
> 
> Hopefully some day soon I will be sending you guys my ecu for a tune and getting some bigger injectors. :thumbup:


 Do iiiiiiiiiiiiiit :thumbup:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Reading this thread is always the highlight of my day.... I have NO idea what you guys are talking about half the time but it's better than reading about offsets and suspensions :laugh:


 This made me lol. Talking suspension bits is pretty lame once you start digging into a custom supercharger setup. I'm always fascinated at the capability of modeling programs. It really makes me want to learn how to do it. Keep up the good work!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> This made me lol. Talking suspension bits is pretty lame once you start digging into a custom supercharger setup. I'm always fascinated at the capability of modeling programs. It really makes me want to learn how to do it. Keep up the good work!


 It is amazing, the capabitities of modeling software. And it has come so far in the couple years I have been using it. 

IMO anything custom is interesting... well to a point, even suspension. 


I thought about this the other day, and I have only owned a VW for a couple years, but I have been into cars/motorcycles for a while and it blows my mind at how few people in the VW "scene" actually do custom work. Most people just buy parts, and either have a mech friend help them install them or pay someone to do it. I am very greatful for the 2.5 guys that post regularly on here, they seem to be the exception. 

But I guess the more computer controlled cars get the less that can be done at home.


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

DerekH said:


> This made me lol. Talking suspension bits is pretty lame once you start digging into a custom supercharger setup. I'm always fascinated at the capability of modeling programs. It really makes me want to learn how to do it. Keep up the good work!


 The funny thing is, my previous job was selling CAD software from AutoCAD. Inventor, Electrical, Revit, Maya, etc... 

:laugh:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> the funny thing is, my previous job was selling cad software from autocad. Inventor, electrical, revit, maya, etc...
> 
> :laugh:


 

solidworks!!!!!!!!!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> solidworks!!!!!!!!!!


 I was paid to talk badly about SWX  :laugh:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I was paid to talk badly about SWX  :laugh:


 Lol, well at least now you don't have to talk smack about other peoples software.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Finished the idler spacers tonight.


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## lorge1989 (Sep 3, 2008)

Wow. You don't see builds like this everyday. Keep it up!


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Sweet deal! good job!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

This project has been put on a little bit of a hold, I am finishing up some house projects and I also want to finish a couple more new things for the car before SOWO.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:thumbup:


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

"like"


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> This project has been put on a little bit of a hold, I am finishing up some house projects and I also want to finish a couple more new things for the car before SOWO.


 You bringing that beast to SoWo?!?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> You bringing that beast to SoWo?!?


 
Yessir


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Yessir


 You better come by the booth and find me... I wanna see this thing. 

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> You better come by the booth and find me... I wanna see this thing.
> 
> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


 I will do, I will be good to put a face to a name.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Gonna start producing these soon????  Id take a supercharger over turbo any day:thumbup::thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> Gonna start producing these soon????  Id take a supercharger over turbo any day:thumbup::thumbup:


 I dont know if I would use the word producing.  

I put this on hold since I will not be able to finish it by sowo. I wanted to get a couple other smaller/faster projects done before the show. 


But after the show I will get back to work on the s/c. After seeing the little tweeks I need to make I would rather make sure all my clearances are good before redesigning.. again. So Im going to use some green foam to get a cavity size and go from there. 

Then its just 3D print, cast, and machine. Oh and add a couple more hours to the day to get all that done. haha.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I dont know if I would use the word producing.
> 
> I put this on hold since I will not be able to finish it by sowo. I wanted to get a couple other smaller/faster projects done before the show.
> 
> ...


 Sad to hear it won't make it to SoWo but it's a WAY better decision to leave it at home, take your time and do it right than to rush it and risk the whole project. 

:thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Sad to hear it won't make it to SoWo but it's a WAY better decision to leave it at home, take your time and do it right than to rush it and risk the whole project.
> 
> :thumbup:


 Me too! I can only do so much in the couple hours after work. Some day it will whine.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I recieved a card from a casting place at a trade show I went to last week. So I sent the 3D model to a casting place, just for the fun of it, to see what they would charge for a cast rapid prototype......


$6,000! haha


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

WOW!!!! Thats crazy expensive!:screwy:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Tell me about it. I was expecting them to say $3-4000.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

no its not...
1st one we were going to do with ITB's was $5000.... no guts.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> no its not...
> 1st one we were going to do with ITB's was $5000.... no guts.


Yes it is 

My pockets must not be as deep as yours, $6000 is expensive. haha.

But I definitely understand why it is that much for a one off. I just had never price a cast part before, and wasnt expecting that.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

no, mine aren't deep...i just meant thats normal prices :screwy: haha


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> no, mine aren't deep...i just meant thats normal prices :screwy: haha


Im just joking. 

Customers with deep pockets then.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

:laugh:


----------



## stas92 (Nov 18, 2011)

:thumbup:


----------



## napkin (Mar 8, 2008)

any news bout that? post some pics dude...


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

napkin said:


> any news bout that? post some pics dude...


Pictures of what? Its all models at the moment. Well except for the welded manifold that didnt turn out 

I am working on stuff for SOWO, so I will continue work on it next week/weekend. Man I need another car for a DD, or an extra engine to test fit on. 

Oh and if you are talking about the ITBs there are pictures in that thread. :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

We got a tig welder at work about a week ago, so I have been playing around with that. Heres my first project with it.... A coolant tank for the awic setup. I still need to turn a couple more bungs and buy a cap to weld on but it will fit in the stock battery location. I also have a catch can in the works, no pictures of that yet. 












Oh and Im going to look at a mkIII this saturday to use as a DD.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

marcus, everywhere i turn i see pics or vids of you in Sowo. You made quite an impact.. 

i'd dare to say that you were as big an impact as the mkv caddy/golf... Congrats!


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

except his is cool and the caddy is terrible. 

:beer: to nice welds


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

I wish i could have gone.....smh. Had a son so I guess Ill be there next year:thumbup: 

Glad to see this moving along. A couple of people have given up on it (maybe because they are impatient). Keep up the great work!:thumbup::thumbup::beer: Most of us here have plenty of time lol


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> except his is cool and the caddy is terrible.


 This, also, lol


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

I appreciate the work on the caddy (whatever shop did it is pretty good) but the Rabbit Country is pretty awesome lol.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> marcus, everywhere i turn i see pics or vids of you in Sowo. You made quite an impact..
> 
> i'd dare to say that you were as big an impact as the mkv caddy/golf... Congrats!


 Thanks! Adam with the caddy drove down with us and I talked with him some before we left. I was rather disapointed when he said he sent the car off to have that done to it and didnt do it himself. 




nothing-leaves-stock said:


> except his is cool and the caddy is terrible.
> 
> :beer: to nice welds


 Thank you as well, the welding still doesnt look great, but it is getting there. I have been getting to work like 45mins early everyday just laying beads... and on my lunch break... and some after work. hahah. 




Cherb32 said:


> I wish i could have gone.....smh. Had a son so I guess Ill be there next year:thumbup:
> 
> Glad to see this moving along. A couple of people have given up on it (maybe because they are impatient). Keep up the great work!:thumbup::thumbup::beer: Most of us here have plenty of time lol


 Congrats on the son. 




I am back to thinking I am going to weld the plenum. This should not be my first casting project. haha. Ill just use a thick flange and have it machined flat.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did some work on the s/c stuff.
Im making some flanges(thin) for the engine side and s/c side then build a "wire frame" of where the plenum and runners will be. Then make a straight jig off the wire frame. The "wire will be 1/4 inch rod so it wont move around too much.


s/c flange with i/c sitting on it.









s/c flange laying on s/c









engine side flange with mock injectors, and fuel rail.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Picked this up yesterday. 









This should help speed things up also. Now I have no excuses but finding time to work on this.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Picked this up yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Anyway I can have the wiring harness if you are just gonna use the motor for parts? I'll pay shipping.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Anyway I can have the wiring harness if you are just gonna use the motor for parts? I'll pay shipping.


 I am going to need the harness. Once I finish the s/c project and my streetfighter bike. Im going to try my hand at building a car. Mid-engine rail (tubing) car using this motor, and probably go turbo on that one.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I am going to need the harness. Once I finish the s/c project and my streetfighter bike. Im going to try my hand at building a car. Mid-engine rail (tubing) car using this motor, and probably go turbo on that one.


 I would put a ej25 in a rail personally with a 35r. Next year I'm starting on the super beetle and may put a 2.5l ej25 in it. 

I knew it was a long shot. I really only need the part with the coil pack plugs down to the main stalk those are connected to. I want to run them around the back of the head, under the coolant lines for pure cosmetics. I think that harness falling on the front of the head looks awful!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I would put a ej25 in a rail personally with a 35r. Next year I'm starting on the super beetle and may put a 2.5l ej25 in it.
> 
> I knew it was a long shot. I really only need the part with the coil pack plugs down to the main stalk those are connected to. I want to run them around the back of the head, under the coolant lines for pure cosmetics. I think that harness falling on the front of the head looks awful!


 I do like the sound of a boxer motor but im sticking with this. It will help with in more ways than one. And I dont have to completely learn a different motor. I bearly have time for this one. haha.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I do like the sound of a boxer motor but im sticking with this. It will help with in more ways than one. And I dont have to completely learn a different motor. I bearly have time for this one. haha.


 In my case I'm more in tune with the ej and 2.3 in the ms3 than this 2.5! I just love how it'll hold 500whp on the stock motor with proper fueling l, the ej that is.


----------



## cdf2.5 (Jun 5, 2012)

not really with you on that one, hyundais are great, they used to suck ill give you that in the 90's they were awful. but the new ones.. i love em. why else would they have a 20 year/200,000 mile POWERTRAIN warranty on their cars?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

cdf2.5 said:


> not really with you on that one, hyundais are great, they used to suck ill give you that in the 90's they were awful. but the new ones.. i love em. why else would they have a 20 year/200,000 mile POWERTRAIN warranty on their cars?


 What are you talking about?


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

mldouthi said:


> What are you talking about?


 was wondering the same thing:sly::screwy:


----------



## cdf2.5 (Jun 5, 2012)

Cherb32 said:


> was wondering the same thing:sly::screwy:


 haha was referring to an earlier post in this thread, someone was cutting down hyundais


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

cdf2.5 said:


> haha was referring to an earlier post in this thread, someone was cutting down hyundais


 Ahhhhhh. Haha, I read that like 10 times trying to figure that one out. But that makes sense, That was back when kevin fakin splits was talking about getting a hyundai.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

While speaking of engines on stock internals holding up to serious power.... one of the lugtronic tuned mk3 12v's has been hitting the 700whp mark for a while now... on stock internals.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> While speaking of engines on stock internals holding up to serious power.... one of the lugtronic tuned mk3 12v's has been hitting the 700whp mark for a while now... on stock internals.


 Bs


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Ahhhhhh. Haha, I read that like 10 times trying to figure that one out. But that makes sense, That was back when kevin fakin splits was talking about getting a hyundai.


 Ha ya... Kinda embarrassed about that whole ordeal! Great car only reason I entertained getting one is my best bud had one and I bought some Gen parts off him to help him through a tough financial time. I had a exhaust, Ksport coils, and the supercharger from this build.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Lol BS huh? 

Well, here you go. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...6-STOCK-Pistons-Rods-E85&highlight=tim+mullen


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

cdf2.5 said:


> haha was referring to an earlier post in this thread, someone was cutting down hyundais


 Man you had me confused for about an hour. Lol thought it was purely out of left field lol. I thought I had missed something:laugh:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> Lol BS huh?
> 
> Well, here you go.
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...6-STOCK-Pistons-Rods-E85&highlight=tim+mullen


 Meh, something doesn't add up. In that case my 5cyl on its new internals will make 1200hp with that turbo with nothing more than ARP studs and better valve springs.. 

If so the only reason that motor is not blown to a million pieces would be the e85. 

The pass is legit. Good for Tim, if it really has over 550 whp I'm impressed.


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

The way the guy says "Dayum!" in that video has me rolling. :laugh:


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

You can't simply do math like that in your head and say well then so and so... blah blah 1200hp. 

ENGINES DON'T WORK THAT WAY. 

Call Kevin Black himself and ask how much power that car made on stock internals. I mean, after all, it was HIM that posted the damn thread. Good lord. :facepalm:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

12v on stock internals to a 2.5 is like comparing apples to oranges. 

They are different motors.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

He was *just* comparing one with an EJ. Come on.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> He was *just* comparing one with an EJ. Come on.


 Thats just what he would put in a home built. 

If he did my statement applies to him too.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

All I was doing was offering some more input on stock engine hp levels. He spoke of an EJ and I spoke of a 12v, to which I was called BS on, so I showed proof, no pissing match intended. lol.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Ok.... 

Back to supercharing a *2.5* motor :thumbup: 




(this is not directed at anyone :beer


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

:beer:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> All I was doing was offering some more input on stock engine hp levels. He spoke of an EJ and I spoke of a 12v, to which I was called BS on, so I showed proof, no pissing match intended. lol.


 Didn't compare a ej to a 20v 2.5. 

And it isn't really apples to oranges. This 2.5 has the best flowing head VW has ever made, the flaw is the stock internals. I'm saying on my forged internals I should then make at least the same power levels on that turbo but I won't. A 9 sec pass in a car that light is at most a 600hp car. Still impressive if its on stock internals.


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

I just wanna know the cost and what this S/C will be putting down. I can definitely do without a turbo


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> I just wanna know the cost and what this S/C will be putting down. I can definitely do without a turbo


 Cost will be a very hard thing to determine. I have been really slack on keeping recipts haha. And since its all custom, and on top of that a lot of trial and error. 

I am back to welding the plenum. After doing a bunch more research I need to pick some more simple projects for my first castings. haha. 

So I will have a better jig for the plenum and have the faces machined after for parallelism. 



I will continue to keep with thread updated on the progress.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Cost will be a very hard thing to determine. I have been really slack on keeping recipts haha. And since its all custom, and on top of that a lot of trial and error.
> 
> I am back to welding the plenum. After doing a bunch more research I need to pick some more simple projects for my first castings. haha.
> 
> ...


 :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Well, I finally did a little more work. Cell phone pictures will have to do since I no longer have a camera. It was stolen along with a bunch of other stuff in my house. So now I have more time to work on this since I have no electrics to distract me. 


I dont know if I have said it in here but I am back to welding the plenum and having the face machined after. A cast plenum is a very large project, especially being my first casting. 

So tonight I went off some measurements I took when I had my intake off last and bolted the s/c up to the spare motor. The next step will be to bolt this "contraption" on to my car to make sure everything clears. 

From what I can tell I should be able to have the s/c feed into a 2.75"-3" log that will feed the runners. Making it this way should be a little easier than what I was trying before. 

Enough talking... Pictures.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Hope you get it working! I can't wait to see it run.


----------



## The Dust Bunny (May 21, 2012)

Tagged for later use.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I always thought that doing it that way would be pretty cool. my thought was that you could mount the sc in place of the ac compressor. then run the boost into a front mount and up to an aftermarket sri. The piping would be very short.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I always thought that doing it that way would be pretty cool. my thought was that you could mount the sc in place of the ac compressor. then run the boost into a front mount and up to an aftermarket sri. The piping would be very short.


But then where do I put my a/c?  With these 100+ deg days, I can do without my a/c. But yes that would have given more room... and added some complication to the pulley system.


----------



## stas92 (Nov 18, 2011)

mldouthi said:


> But then where do I put my a/c?  With these 100+ deg days, I can do without my a/c. But yes that would have given more room... and added some complication to the pulley system.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

stas92 said:


> http://www.mopo.ca/uploaded_images/AC-734147.jpg /IMG][/QUOTE]
> 
> touche :laugh::laugh:


----------



## fmxr47 (Sep 23, 2010)

have you had the silencer ports welded shut so when you do get it going that baby will whine? I miss the whine of my cobalt when I had it :'(


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

fmxr47 said:


> have you had the silencer ports welded shut so when you do get it going that baby will whine? I miss the whine of my cobalt when I had it :'(


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I dropped of the drawing yesterday at the machine shop for some cnc intake flanges.


----------



## rabbitlvr (Oct 8, 2011)

Any updates? I'm on the edge wondering will it work! such a cool project :snowcool:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

rabbitlvr said:


> Any updates? I'm on the edge wondering will it work! such a cool project :snowcool:


I will be test fitting the wire frame intake and s/c on the car tomorrow evening.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh and the intake flanges I am having quoted/made use RMR oval tubing, so I dont need to have runners cnc'd or specially made. :thumbup:


I am also making a flare tool to hopfully give the ends a flared/bell mouth opening..... well I probably wont use those in the s/c manifold but if it works Im going to be putting them on the SRI.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Oh and the intake flanges I am having quoted/made use RMR oval tubing, so I dont need to have runners cnc'd or specially made. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> I am also making a flare tool to hopfully give the ends a flared/bell mouth opening..... well I probably wont use those in the s/c manifold but if it works Im going to be putting them on the SRI.


Pmd real quick got something for ya :thumbup:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

fmxr47 said:


> have you had the silencer ports welded shut so when you do get it going that baby will whine? I miss the whine of my cobalt when I had it :'(


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Get your powder oven back up? Lol I'm interested


here we go.


----------



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Still amazed at this. I love seeing the updates!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> here we go.


He's a powdercoater. He was gonna do my wheels, but the oven he uses to fit them broke. He's very good priced to, and does great work. If you need all that half assed polished stuff coated hit him up.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Sorry for the cell phone pictures. I still havent replaced my camera.






























Looks like I will be making a slight "hump" in the hood. There is room to move it down a touch. But I think Im going to leave it where it is to help with plenum volume.


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)




----------



## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Sorry for the cell phone pictures. I still havent replaced my camera.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this ->:thumbup: x100


----------



## The Dust Bunny (May 21, 2012)

Just cut a hole in the hood... like the honda guys do with the V6 swaps.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

The Dust Bunny said:


> Just cut a hole in the hood... like the honda guys do with the V6 swaps.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/tJQxX.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Any way to move the actuator valve? Seems like that is the issue.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

This thread makes me so happy.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

In for updates.


----------



## stas92 (Nov 18, 2011)




----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Any new updates?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> Any new updates?


 Sadly no. 

I am still waiting on parts from two machine shops, I read this on another forum somewhere yesterday and I find it very true.... 

*Machine Shop Time Conversion. 

Quoted Time Actual Time* 
1 Hour 2 Days 
1 Day 2 Weeks 
1 Week 2 Months 
1 Month 2 Years 

:laugh::laugh: 


I have also had other side projects going on that has prevented me from working on the jig. I am still trying to come up with the best way to make it and keep it at straight as possible. I really need a "real" milling machine. Im tired of paying for stuff... and waiting Forever for things that can be done in a couple hours. 

I have been reading up on Dual plenum intake manifolds and I think this style would work pretty well because of the inlet of the s/c being offset. This will help distribute the pressure to all runners.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I picked up the flanges today. I am still waiting on the tb flange at the other machine shop.


----------



## 637395 (Sep 15, 2011)

mldouthi said:


> I picked up the flanges today. I am still waiting on the tb flange at the other machine shop.



Buying ASAP!


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

a little inspiration hopefully....

http://shop.kleemann.dk/shop/kompressor-systems-45c1.html


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

jettred3 said:


> a little inspiration hopefully....
> 
> http://shop.kleemann.dk/shop/kompressor-systems-45c1.html



Sure is. I am itching to get working on this more.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

:thumbup:


mldouthi said:


> Sure is. I am itching to get working on this more.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Dual Plenum design gives pretty even velocity to all cylinders. :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

A little bit of oval tubing came in today.










And Im picking up the throttle body flanges tomorrow. (more for SRIs. but kind of relevant in this thread)


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

NICE!

center fed (sort of) FTW


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Throttle body flange. I asked for (3) but he only made (1) and after 2 months I just took the rest of my material back. Ill just try to make them myself. The one he made looks good though.


----------



## vwjn311 (Aug 27, 2005)

tchilds said:


> Horrible idea. The stage 2 24v vr6 super charger kits only make 250whp. I'll take 250whp with a small, properly sized, daily driven turbo setup, than a horrible super charger. I'd rather spend the $$$ to go all motor as well, since the super charger setup won't be any faster and will sound like a blender.
> 
> Super chargers are an exercise in futility. There is no reason to choose one over a turbo in aftermarket applications.


Would rather have my supercharger on my vr than turbo, i enjoy it and the b*tch moves...one sexy blender.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

vwjn311 said:


> Would rather have my supercharger on my vr than turbo, i enjoy it and the b*tch moves...one sexy blender.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2



Nice Quote!!!! It was almost a year old  :laugh:


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

I have a 3 Axis CNC Mill,
why not let us help out?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

INA said:


> I have a 3 Axis CNC Mill,
> why not let us help out?


Indeed.

Keep in mind, this is a famous project... It has been a topic of discussion everywhere, from vortex to top gear. 

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

INA said:


> I have a 3 Axis CNC Mill,
> why not let us help out?


I am doing very low volume parts, so I imagine I couldnt afford it.

I had the initial parts quoted a long time ago from some shops in my area with CNCs and they all wanted an arm and a leg for some very simple parts. 

The guy that cut the base flange gives me a good deal because we used to use him a bunch when I work at a motorcycle shop. He also doesnt run the CNC that much because its super old and you have to draw the part into the program, so its not like he stopping a big job to cut my stuff. But its also a pain for me because I cant just send him a dxf or g-code. I have to give a drawing and hope he transfers it correctly.


But that being said, next time I need something cut Ill send you the file to be quoted. You guys make some awesome product. :thumbup:


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

updates?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I welded a little at lunch yesterday and will hopefully finish during lunch today. 

I am welding a .25" plate/flange with radius'd openings to the C2 intake flange. Its not looking great, but its going to stay together for sure. haha. It is really hard welding between the runners with such a small amount of space.

Heres the flange tacked in place and c-clamped together for welding.










Ill take more pictures in a little while.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I am not able to weld the inner parts with the tig welder so those ill have to do with a mig machine. I will need to do some sanding to make this part look decent. But it will be functional at least.


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Progress is good though!

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## logoris (Jun 8, 2012)

looking good cant wait to see the whole thing mounted


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

opcorn::thumbup:


----------



## themightyquinn (Dec 30, 2007)

Anything new? Considering switching from my mk3 vr6 to a rabbit and this build would totally push me over the edge! :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I havent worked on anything else for the past week and a half. I was in Yosemite climbing and them have been sick since ive been back. 

Progress soon though...


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I knew there was a reason i liked you. How was the climbing? I've wanted to get out to Yosemite ever since i started climbing. Let me know if you are ever up in ontario.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I knew there was a reason i liked you. How was the climbing? I've wanted to get out to Yosemite ever since i started climbing. Let me know if you are ever up in ontario.


It was awesome. I went with a group of 8 with some somewhat beginner climbers so we didnt do anything to crazy. We climbed Half Dome, 22hr day, because of some slow groups ahead of us on the climb we were doing. The last 2 pitches we did in the dark along with the 1000ft of 3rd class at the top. And we also did some single pitch stuff on El Cap.

Ill let you know. Climbing partners are a good thing to have everywhere. You do the same. If your ever down in the states on the east coast.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I went to Yosemite when i was about 8 years old and watched people climbing half dome. Always wanted to do it ever since. My first outdoor trip i climbed out in the dark with no headlamp lol pretty scary stuff. I'm glad you had a good time and everyone came back safe. It would be pretty sweet if we could get together and climb sometime. 

A few weeks ago i lead the hardest route i have ever lead at the gym i work at. Pretty stoked to get outside next year with a properly functioning shoulder. It's pretty frustrating getting strong at the end of the season lol.


----------



## kDubya_SE (Jul 30, 2012)

Anything new happening? This is looking pretty awesome!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kDubya_SE said:


> Anything new happening? This is looking pretty awesome!


I cut out a couple panels for the plenum yesterday but I need to use the tig welder at work and we are having an ISO audit. So it will be a couple days, but soon I will have some more pictures of the plenum a little further along.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is the C2 flange and the radiused flange welded and mounted to the motor. I used a flange I had made the the first try, therefore I had to weld the bolt holes shut. that is the reason for the blobs of weld between the cylinders. 










More to come... in the next couple days.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

Looking good, keep it up.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did some more work today at lunch. Ill post pictures later. 

I really need to buy a decent welder. The one at work is not cutting it for welding to these .5" flanges.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Plenum secondary plenum welded. I have a little left on the jig then I can and the initial plenum with the s/c mounting flange.









(not real happy with the welds "looks" but this part is sealed. Took a very long time to get this thing hot enough to melt that .5" flange)




And the exhaust flange for a "long tube" header.... that will connect to a 3" exhaust.










(Thanks Pete)


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

coming along nicely.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

One cap done on the i/c


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Picked up the top flange from the machine shop today....

And the other side of the i/c is almost done. I will weld the last two plates on tomorrow alone with the two 3/4 NPT bungs. Mini lathes are horrible, 1 hour per bung of turning. 



















I also have more bits of the cut out and ready for welding tomorrow on the plenum. I will update pictures of that tomorrow.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I am stumped. I finished welding the i/c and its leaking water, and I cant tell where from. Its coming out on both ends from the middle of the "finned" area. I will take some pictures in a bit. Maybe someone has seen something like this before.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

So I have a bad core!! Its missing one of the plates to seal the two parts. After all that work and time. I wish I would have known to look for this before hand.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Sure is missing those plates  Never seen that before.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Almost there.












Header is finished, minus the welds around the flange.


----------



## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

Damn I want those headers. 

And the super charger is really comin together! I can't wait to see this finished.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I now know why evo charges so much for their headers, haha.... so many pieces that need welded together.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

3 inch collector? Looks very nice, keep it up.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> 3 inch collector? Looks very nice, keep it up.


Yes, its a 3" collector. Well a 2.75" collector that I cut about a .25" off the end to make it 3". The 3" collectors were out of stock and would have taken a long time to come in.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

So Bell intercoolers wants me to return the core just like it is, and offered to weld my end caps onto a new core. But I feel I can do a better job on the welding the second time around, so I declined them welding it. 

So I will be getting a new core as soon as I return this one. 

They said they check through all there stock and cant find any other like it. But accepted that it was a manufacture flaw.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

Let bell weld them for you, they will do a killer job.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

that way they can properly pressure test it.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

jettred3 said:


> that way they can properly pressure test it.


They were only going to weld my caps back on to a new core. My welds have been getting better so I want to make new end caps..... Since I will be getting a new core.

I can properly pressure test this as well. We have a pressure tester at work for testing our cases to IP65.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

mldouthi said:


> They were only going to weld my caps back on to a new core. My welds have been getting better so I want to make new end caps..... Since I will be getting a new core.
> 
> I can properly pressure these this a well. We have a pressure tester at work for testing our cases to IP65.


:thumbup:


----------



## rabbitlvr (Oct 8, 2011)

mldouthi you're my hero :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Little more work at lunch today.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

Loving it.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

Thought a little side by side would be neat, hope you don't mind, two AWIC Intake Manifolds built for boost.eace:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

No problem. I wish mine was as done as yours! :thumbup:

And yours looks a ton better than mine. haha. Nub does good work.


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Nub does excellent work! But you're coming along nicely too bud!
Keep it up, you can always grind down a big ugly weld to be flush

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks.

This will definitely be getting coated in some type of textured coating to hid all my imperfections. haha.


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

i got that part shipped out monday... you should have it wednesday. just in time to receive it before thanksgiving :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nickbeezy said:


> i got that part shipped out monday... you should have it wednesday. just in time to receive it before thanksgiving :beer:


Great, Thanks :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Header ready for a test fit.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

new header??


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> new header??



Trying, haha. 

This picture is the second one I have made. The other one I finished last week, and being impatient I welded it all before a test fit on the car and I ended up not fitting behind the motor, well I wasnt able to get it into place. 

I tried to keep the tubes on this one a little tighter and have them come together a little sooner to help with the install. I am having to put these in from the bottom of the car. I might have to move the electric assist power steering rack and subframe a little to get this in. I dont know yet. I left this one only tacked until I know it will fit. Unlike last time :banghead:

There are pictures on the first one on the previous page.


----------



## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

I might have missed something, but is there a reason you have to make headers? I mean are you just doing it because you want to or is there something specific about them that has to be done to work with the supercharger? I'm likin the work either way, just a curious question! Lol.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

MasterJetti08 said:


> I mean are you just doing it because you want to


This. 

I am making them because I have never made any headers before and thought it would be fun. They are not needed for the s/c setup though.


----------



## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

Lol ok. I thought I was just stupid. That's awesome man lookin good. I'm always excited to see updates on this thread.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Did you try taking the dog bone mount off so you could wiggle the engine a little more to get the header in?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks.


Also I guess I shouldnt have posted this in the s/c build thread if it doesnt have to do with the s/c, haha.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

More air in means more air out. Makes sense to have a header on a supercharged setup.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Very true. 

But not *needed* for the s/c haha.


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Also I guess I shouldnt have posted this in the s/c build thread if it doesnt have to do with the s/c, haha.


This s/c thread has turned into the what hardcore DIY project is mldouthi working on today. I love it.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Ill try to keep the off topic stuff to a minimun and keep this supercharger related. 



I will post all the "other" stuff only in my build thread going forward.:thumbup:


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Ill try to keep the off topic stuff to a minimun and keep this supercharger related.
> 
> 
> 
> I will post all the "other" stuff only in my build thread going forward.:thumbup:


I never said stop, keep it up, you are the s/c pioneer. Anything you do to the 2.5 engine I consider to be s/c related somehow. :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

More welding at lunch today.











Now I just need to finish welding around the 5/8" top flange, then its time for pressure testing.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

mldouthi said:


> More welding at lunch today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


opcorn:opcorn:opcorn::beer:


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

I can't wait to see this done!! Its the mutts nuts!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

New i/c core came in today. This one looks to have all the braze plates.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Sorry for the stop in progress. Getting some other parts out to make some money for the holidays. Exhausts, light bars, aerial dance aparatuses (?  ).

Ill get back to it soon though....


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

Unacceptable...

Cracks the whip.....


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

So the M62 off the cobalt has the MAP sensor on the top after the tb and before the "screws".... Should I use this port for my MAP sensor? or mount the sensor to the manifold (boost side)?


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

boost side...


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> boost side...


 Thanks. :thumbup: 

That is what I thought, and was confused as to why its like that on the cobalt.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

always better to see vac/boost. which before the SC you'd only see vac.. easier to tune


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> always better to see vac/boost. which before the SC you'd only see vac.. easier to tune


 Got it. Thanks again.


----------



## quattro v1.0 (Mar 13, 2005)

Marcus, I replied to your PM but upon reply it told me your box was full. 

Maybe catch me via email..


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

Just got off the phone with Vortec and their blowers are cheaper than I thought they would be. We need to have a meeting of the minds...


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

quattro v1.0 said:


> Marcus, I replied to your PM but upon reply it told me your box was full.
> 
> Maybe catch me via email..


 PM'd you again. after cleaning out my inbox. I also dont have your email.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

bobsuncle said:


> Just got off the phone with Vortec and their blowers are cheaper than I thought they would be. We need to have a meeting of the minds...


 Whats the price? And what questions do you have?


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Whats the price?


 Can't say.  

I will say that they do sell rebuilt units. 



mldouthi said:


> And what questions do you have?


 #1 
How do I avoid overstressing the A/C compressor? INA talked about moving things all into one plane, but does that really solve anything? 

I was thinking about running off of the crank pulley with the A/C instead of having the A/C power the blower. 


#2 

I'm thinking about mounting it on the back side of the motor and then using an OEM GTI intercooler or a C2 turbo intercooler so I can keep everything else stock. Shortest piping possible is key to reducing lag. 

#3 

So, do you have any suggestions on a mount point? Or on a good way to source/fab a bracket? 

#4 

I'd like to get the blower intake port to mate with a VWR GTI intake so it gets colder air from the factory position. Dumb idea? 

#5 

I think I'm going to need a belt tensioner to add in the blower on the crank. What's a good way to do this?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

bobsuncle said:


> Can't say.
> 
> I will say that they do sell rebuilt units.
> 
> ...


 Secrets are dumb and dont need to be in this thread. :thumbdown: 


As for your other questions. 

1. I am running the s/c off the crank so nothing will change from the stock belt setup other than adding a pulley. 

2. I dont think there is room on the back side of the motor to mount the s/c because of the exhaust manifold and there being no space, firewall and axel are in the way where it would need to mount to line up the pulley. And it would need some crazy heat protection. 

3. I would have to take a closer look to see about where to mount it and know its dimensions. A jack shaft might be an option. And also would need to know the direction of rotation of the s/c. 

4. Its custom, so you can do whatever you would like. But if you are making the custom piping to go that far why not just continue it to where you want you intake to be located. 

5. Well that all depends on how you mount the s/c and what belt you run it off. There are many ways to add tension. Most that use centrifugal s/c run a tensioner on the mounting plate. That helps keep everything inline. Either using a idler bolted to a slot, or an idler on an eccentric mount, or something spring retended like the stock setup.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

BTW vortech just told me via email that an intercooler isn't worth it below 10LBs of boost b/c the increased lag negates the added power. 

If that's the case, should I just run a long shaft over the intake manifold and then run a short little pipe? 

This might work, and be easier...


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Im not sure what you mean by a long shaft over the intake? Then a short little pipe? 

I have definitely heard the 10psi "rule". If thats what the company recommends.... I guess go with it.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Im not sure what you mean by a long shaft over the intake? Then a short little pipe?
> 
> I have definitely heard the 10psi "rule". If thats what the company recommends.... I guess go with it.












How would I best do this? 

I still want to run off the crank belt directly somehow, but this is probably the best way forwards. The new question is how to go about mounting this sucker.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

bobsuncle said:


>


 Got it. That is similar to the jack shaft I was talking about.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Got it. That is similar to the jack shaft I was talking about.












What about mounting the air intake in the location that all the short rams put it? Just in front of the battery? 

I can order it to point in any way I want and go clockwise OR counterclockwise. What the best way to run the pipe to the throttlebody?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I would go with an aluminum elbow with some couplers to connect it to the TB. Are you trying to get this to fit with the stock intake?


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> I would go with an aluminum elbow with some couplers to connect it to the TB. Are you trying to get this to fit with the stock intake?


 I'm going to use it with the stock manifold or maybe a C2 manifold, but I'll make a custom short ram for the actual air inlet. 

I need to drill the holes for the two hoses in my PZEV, but that's not hard.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

PZEV?? 

You might need some hood modification to have the s/c up high enough for the long shaft to clear the manifold.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> PZEV??


 Cali emissions car. 



mldouthi said:


> You might need some hood modification to have the s/c up high enough for the long shaft to clear the manifold.


 What about going UNDER it (the intake manifold)? 

If I HAD to, I could relocate the alternator. That's a common move in supercharger installs.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

bobsuncle;79947472}
What about going UNDER it?[/QUOTE said:


> even tighter under the manifold. Maybe with the C2 manifold, but i have never seen under one while mounted.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> even tighter under the manifold. Maybe with the C2 manifold, but i have never seen under one while mounted.


 Then alt relocate. Move the alternator up to where NST said to place the blower and then run the blower shaft under the manifold.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

You cant really move the alt up any because it is in line with runner 1 and half of 2. That is the reason for the angled runners on the stock manifold.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> You cant really move the alt up any because it is in line with runner 1 and half of 2. That is the reason for the angled runners on the stock manifold.


 How much clearance is there between the alternator and the radiator?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I would have to measure, but Im guessing 3"-4"


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

I think I can squeeze it under an SRI. I need some measurements, but that'll give me the tad bit more I really need. 

OR I mught just have a hood scoop put in. It'll look like it's blown LOL.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

SRI is the answer. The prototypes of the IE look like they'll give me enough room. 

Now to play the waiting game some more...


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

If it were me i would just mount it in place of the AC compressor.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

DerekH said:


> If it were me i would just mount it in place of the AC compressor.


 I'm married, and I'd like to keep it that way... 

I know it will mount. The only question is whether I have to mount it in such a way that it's not worth it. If blower lag is 75% of turbo lag then I'm going to build a turbo. 

I don't have midlothi's welding skills, so I'm quite a bit more limited in what I can do. I can solder a circuit board and even press wafer, but I can't weld for crap.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

What are the dims of the unit you are wanting to use?


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

-that blower is big 
-fitment by the trans will be hard. you'll have to move the battery, make mounts and i think the "drive shaft" would be nearly impossible without a custom intake manifold. 
- have to also remember the direction of the drive 
- tb to SC may be super tight so you might need to move the tb under the center of the intake and remove the airpump. 
-doing it that why may cause more issues then its worth. 
-maybe look into the rotrex charger and do fitment under the car...which we have looked at already and its "more" possible


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> -that blower is big
> -fitment by the trans will be hard. you'll have to move the battery, make mounts and i think the "drive shaft" would be nearly impossible without a custom intake manifold.
> - have to also remember the direction of the drive
> - tb to SC may be super tight so you might need to move the tb under the center of the intake and remove the airpump.
> ...


 I'm in agreement with you after getting up underneath this thing. I think it's best to do one to the rear of the motor like the procharger kits do it. There just isn't enough room up front.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

behind will not work for belt fitment....tried that too


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi, 

I'm going to quit cluttering up your thread. If I figure this out I'll start my own.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

bobsuncle said:


> mldouthi,
> 
> I'm going to quit cluttering up your thread. If I figure this out I'll start my own.


 No Problem. Its a Supercharged 2.5 thread. I didnt even start it. haha. 

But you are more than welcome to start another thread for a snail charger :thumbup:


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

bobsuncle said:


> #2
> I'm thinking about mounting it on the back side of the motor and then using an OEM GTI intercooler or a C2 turbo intercooler so I can keep everything else stock. Shortest piping possible is key to reducing lag.


 Just my quick 2 cents, I think lag is the least of your worries on location. Yes because of the low amount of boost from the s/c, intercooling is not worth the minimal gain from it. I would not pick a difficult mounting location needing a lot of work to just reduce lag, it would be such a minimal change. Look at guys that remote turbo, the air travels the distance of the whole vehicle and its been proven to be a very limited amount of lag due to distance. A good read on a working remote turbo. I think your moving in the right direction on finding a spot that works best without needing to use an SRI. Supercharging and Lag dont go together thats the point, supercharging equals instant boost but limited range. Turbo= lag with high possibilities in range. 

I would also be interested to see what vortech was willing to tell you about the pricing. :thumbdown: Secrets are not cool man!:laugh:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Worked on the core for a second time. This one is going to look better than the last.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

One end finished.


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> One end finished.


:thumbup: Great looking welds and good work!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Heat exchanger mounting mocked up


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I also picked up a few more bits for getting this wrapped up.
Gauge pod, water temp gauge, boost gauge, wideband, push-on -12an fittings, 3in pulley, and a bosch pump.


----------



## mmrabbit (Jun 27, 2008)

Looking great bro!!!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did a test fit of the intake, minus the intercooler flange (.25" plate). and figured out where to cut the s/c for the t/b plate.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Made a couple more supercharger modifications.


Old TB mount cut off



















Stock cobalt MAP sensor mount cut off










Made a plug to weld in its place


----------



## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

:thumbup:


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

timmiller05 said:


> :thumbup:


Getting close!:beer:


----------



## kDubya_SE (Jul 30, 2012)

Will the hood clear that? What are your plans if it doesn't?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kDubya_SE said:


> Will the hood clear that? What are your plans if it doesn't?


Cut

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kDubya_SE said:


> Will the hood clear that? What are your plans if it doesn't?


It will not clear, Just barely though.



thygreyt said:


> Cut
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2



And yes It will be cut, I am thinking of running a heat extractor type hood that opens at the supercharger to keep the heat down and make a removable cowl piece for it, to keep crap out of the engine bay.

Something similar to this


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Diljoe recently took this pic of a Honda with similar setup


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Nice, looks like they have a little more room to work with..... must be nice. haha


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

that honda...the TB adapter is made by the guy near me that does all my machining!!!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> that honda...the TB adapter is made by the guy near me that does all my machining!!!


I have seen there stuff on fb before. I cant find it now, but they also make intercooled spacers for sc'd hondas also.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I have seen there stuff on fb before. I cant find it now, but they also make intercooled spacers for sc'd hondas also.


The link is in this thread. Somewhere in the first 10 pages. He does fantastic work


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

correct, he does amazing work


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Fuel rail extrusion came in and I picked up the intercooler flange.


----------



## themightyquinn (Dec 30, 2007)

Wow, looks great :beer: 

I've been watching this thread for a long time, and finally picked up an 08 Rabbit a few months ago. I would love to s/c one day instead of a turbo... 

...Keep up the good work! All us 2.5ers are pullin for ya man eace:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

themightyquinn said:


> Wow, looks great :beer:
> 
> I've been watching this thread for a long time, and finally picked up an 08 Rabbit a few months ago. I would love to s/c one day instead of a turbo...
> 
> ...Keep up the good work! All us 2.5ers are pullin for ya man eace:


 Thanks man. 

Ill slowly chugging along. Did some more work this weekend and tonight, Ill have some more pictures in the next couple days.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did a little work yesterday.


----------



## frankie_hdz (May 1, 2007)

Most favorite thread Ever!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

marcus, what are the specs of the core, heat exchanger, and type of water pump?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

frankie, Thanks. 


nick, 
The core is from bell (6" x 6.125" x 1.25"), That is the biggest I could fit in the plenum. the heat exchanger is iirc (27" x 7" x 2.5) but its not the same quality the bell core is. Lower fin count for sure. And the water pump is a bosch cobra pump, 3/4 inlet and outlet. 




I am also going to be ordering a C2ner with some base tunes along with some 550cc injectors from C2 today.


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

Makes me fell alot better knowing my core is 12 x 6 x 3... 

Maybe overkill...yours will work just fine.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

jettred3 said:


> Makes me fell alot better knowing my core is 12 x 6 x 3...
> 
> Maybe overkill...yours will work just fine.


 Mine is better than nothing for sure. Roots chargers build quite a bit of heat also. And im not running crazy boost either.


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

Wow this is really coming along. :thumbup::beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did some work on the coolant res. and welded the plug into the SC


----------



## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

hoping to be able hide my heat exchanger a little more than than you have.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> hoping to be able hide my heat exchanger a little more than than you have.


 Im about 80% on painting it black to hide it a little more.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Have you seen the new mini roots charger that Australian company used to make the 300whp FR-S kit?


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Have you seen the new mini roots charger that Australian company used to make the 300whp FR-S kit?


 That pulley is so small. 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Have you seen the new mini roots charger that Australian company used to make the 300whp FR-S kit?
> [IMG[/IMG]


 No, I havent. This is a 2.5 VW motor though. Not a fr-s  

Were you just reffering to the size of the blower?


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> No, I havent. This is a 2.5 VW motor though. Not a fr-s
> 
> Were you just reffering to the size of the blower?


 Ya just how small the blower is. I'm sure you've seen a boxxer intake manifold and realize how small that is really puts the blowers size in perspective. They say its really efficient also


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ya just how small the blower is. I'm sure you've seen a boxxer intake manifold and realize how small that is really puts the blowers size in perspective. They say its really efficient also


 Looks like a small kenne bell blower. Twin screw chargers are way more efficient for their size, although you pay for it. 

http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Reman_SC_pg/layouts/remansc.htm


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Looks like a small kenne bell blower. Twin screw chargers are way more efficient for their size, although you pay for it.
> 
> http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Reman_SC_pg/layouts/remansc.htm


 At SEMA I think that kit fully ready to install was $7,000, the unintercooled version was 5k iirc, so ya you sure do pay for it


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did a little more work this weekend. 

-Ground down the plug weld on the SC 
-Went to a friends house to use his tig setup to finish welding the manifold. That makes me never want to use a diversion 180 again. haha 

Next is pressure testing both the manifold and the i/c.


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

good progress, hopefully there will be no pressure leaks and let the rest of the build be smooth sailing :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

fingers are crossed


----------



## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

:beer::beer:


----------



## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

:thumbup:

Can't wait to hear this baby cry!


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

SocoJoe said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> Can't wait to hear this baby _wine_!


X2 :thumbup: and Fixed it!


----------



## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

SocoJoe said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> Can't wait to hear this baby whine!





U_know_me said:


> X2 :thumbup: and Fixed it!


Double fixed! :laugh:


----------



## driftme (Apr 12, 2008)

:thumbup:


SocoJoe said:


> Double fixed! :laugh:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pressure tested the intercooler today. 




















This also came in the mail











:thumbup::thumbup: to C2 for the fast shipping. Should be able to load the base tune pretty soon.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I now have a second LEAKY (defective) Bell intercooler core. 


I hate I ever recommended these to anyone!!!
Video coming shortly.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[video]http://s1082.beta.photobucket.com/user/mldouthi/media/2013-01-30_19-05-26_918_zps3ff0b451.mp4.html[/video]


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

looks like it could be coming from the weld.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> looks like it could be coming from the weld.


Maybe ill have to take a better video, maybe a different angle. But in person you can see that it is coming from the middle of the plate. I wish it was just the weld, would be less hassle and easier to fix.

If I hold the ic straight up the air bubbles come out a couple fins up on both sides.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here are a couple stills from the video showing the bubbles not forming at the weld.


----------



## Gott ist gut (Jul 2, 2010)

Dang, that sucks. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I guess that's the price you pay to be a forerunner. You get to clear out all the trash for the rest of the pack.


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Still, Bell are supposed to be one of, if not, the best in the business. I could see one mishap, but two?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Still, Bell are supposed to be one of, if not, the best in the business. I could see one mishap, but two?


I thought so too. Thats why I bought from them. But I let them know im my email that feeling is quickly going away. 

We will see what Gerhard has to say back about the video and pictures. He was very good about replacing the last core. Hopefully this will be the same.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

bell is top...

you are not welding far enough in....had that issue till i learned how to weld the cores correctly.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Gerhard from Bell just called.

I must say I am/was upset about 2 faulty cores. But Bell has the best customer service. 
No questions asked, they want me to send my core back and they will replicate it, no charge.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> bell is top...
> 
> you are not welding far enough in....had that issue till i learned how to weld the cores correctly.


Do you weld between the fins?  Thats where it is leaking haha


Bell doesnt weld any further in than I did. Could you give me a picture of how far the weld should go into the core?

Bell made core.


----------



## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Just let them weld it so if its a faulty core, they can just make it right from the start.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

d-bot said:


> Just let them weld it so if its a faulty core, they can just make it right from the start.


That is what they are doing.

I was just trying to see what Josh was talking about... not welding in far enough.


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

No, it's far enough in. But it looks like you didn't use enough heat and the bubbles are coming out right next to that weld restart.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

yup


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> No, it's far enough in. But it looks like you didn't use enough heat and the bubbles are coming out right next to that weld restart.


Got it. I can see that there wasnt enough heat used in that spot, but looking at it in person I can see that it is fused in that spot. And like I mentioned before the bubbles are forming in the finned area.

Hopefully my tax returns will pay for a decent tig setup for my house and I can get more practice in for doing stuff like this. 

The intercooler is boxed up and on its way to Bell.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

More parts from C2 showed up today.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Started the fuel rail today.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:beer:


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Is Integrated Engineering even watching this??? :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> Is Integrated Engineering even watching this??? :beer:


Why do you ask?


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Because they usually would chime in on something this good. Surprised they havnt said a word:screwy:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> Because they usually would chime in on something this good. Surprised they havnt said a word:screwy:


Well, thank you.

I think they have posted in here before. Not sure though. My stuff looks nowhere as nice as all there cnc parts.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Working out the fuel rail mount. Not much room.


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That is really tight. Looks like welding some threaded bosses on to the intake manifold might be the way to go for clamping that thing down.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> That is really tight. Looks like welding some threaded bosses on to the intake manifold might be the way to go for clamping that thing down.


Thanks, that was my thought also. There is only .125" of space behind the rail so I was thinking counter bore the rail to allow the bolt to grab a couple more threads.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

This was my thought. The stepped bung will allow for .25" of threads and also help as a locator. My other thought would be to slot the hole in the rail for some adjustment, but I dont know if I need to do that. Thoughts?


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:beer:


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Looks like a winner. I don't see the need to have adjustment as long as the injectors are seated fully.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Looks like a winner. I don't see the need to have adjustment as long as the injectors are seated fully.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


Thanks :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Model came to life. 



















And turned the barb for the fuel rail.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Good work so far. I am enjoying watching the progress. :heart:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Good work so far. I am enjoying watching the progress. :heart:


Thanks.

One of these days Ill get it finished, haha.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Barb welded on. I just need to decide what I am doing with the other end, weld it shut or tap and plug it.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Tap and plug, its easier and makes it so its easier to change up your fueling system in the future if you need to.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Tap and plug, its easier and makes it so its easier to change up your fueling system in the future if you need to.



I wouldnt say easier, but the future part makes sense. :thumbup:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Ok, maybe not easier. But its not a lot more work, and the future proofing is worth the small amount of extra effort.

Also, work faster im getting impatient! lol


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Im trying. I really want this to be done. But theres only so much time in a day. Work and gf take most of it.

My car working time before SOWO also just got cut shorter. I will be in Germany for a little over a week coming up.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Awww, poor you. 

Seriously wish i lived closer to you id be more than happy to help out.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Awww, poor you.
> 
> Seriously wish i lived closer to you id be more than happy to help out.


haha.

As much as I like doing everything myself,I would gladly accept the help.  I really want to move on to a new project.


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

:thumbup::thumbup: Awesome work man, you sure do find a way to make this more and more impressive. Keep it up!


----------



## DeepSeaDynamo (Feb 28, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Im about 80% on painting it black to hide it a little more.



you might wanna think about anodizing, that should promote more heat transfer


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DeepSeaDynamo said:


> you might wanna think about anodizing, that should promote more heat transfer


Heat transfer is the reason I am having reservations about it. Thanks for looking out.:thumbup:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Looks good


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Fuel rail is done, just need to get/make a plug for the end, and weld the mounts onto the manifold.









I also turned the bypass to manifold connector. I had to make it in 2 pieces because the people at eaton decided to not line up the bypass opening and the outlet.... and I didnt check it. They are about .125 off center from each other. So these 2 pieces will get welded off-center.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Of course 5 rib belts go from 66.5" to 70.5" when I need a 68"-69" belt.:banghead:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Of course 5 rib belts go from 66.5" to 70.5" when I need a 68"-69" belt.:banghead:


That's going to be one mofo of a tentioner.


----------



## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

Every day this gets a little closer to finishing, i get happier inside :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I found a 69" 5 rib belt and I went ahead and ordered a 68.5" 4 rib belt just to test fit that length also.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Chain drive that b*tchaikovsky


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Chain drive that b*tchaikovsky


I second that motion:thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Chain drive that b*tchaikovsky





Cherb32 said:


> I second that motion:thumbup:


Not going to happen... haha.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> I second that motion:thumbup:


It'll sound like a chainsaw doe


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here was the last test fit picture from Sat. Everything is trimmed and fitting like I would like it.












Welded on a vacuum bung today... Then ran out of argon. 









More welding tomorrow then.


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

mldouthi said:


> Here was the last test fit picture from Sat. Everything is trimmed and fitting like I would like it.



**** YEAH!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Intercooler should be back on thursday :thumbup:


But looks like a start before this weekend will not be happening.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Welded the tb flange on today


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Looks good :beer:


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Making some serious progress here. It's nice to see that what you dreamt about actually is coming to fruition! Can't wait to hear this bad boy

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm gonna be checking this while i'm away this weekend, i hope i'm not disappointed :thumbup::thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thagodeus said:


> I'm gonna be checking this while i'm away this weekend, i hope i'm not disappointed :thumbup::thumbup:


Im afraid you are going to be. Some stuff came up and it looks like I wont be able to work as much on this like I had hoped. I should have the welding done though.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Fuel rail mounts welded on. Also some more parts showed up today.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

More work done this morning. 


Started welding on the part that mates to the bypass.


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Mmmmm daily updates are awesome.


----------



## 02vwgolf (Oct 6, 2009)

^^^^ My thoughts exactly:thumbup::thumbup:

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Intercooler came back in today.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Whilst I appreciate what it is taking to complete something of this magnitude and am ALL for doing this.... it's a little ugly. 

Is it going to be pretty when it's finished? Do you have a planned finish?


----------



## sbghms (Aug 19, 2008)

sub


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> Whilst I appreciate what it is taking to complete something of this magnitude and am ALL for doing this.... it's a little ugly.
> 
> Is it going to be pretty when it's finished? Do you have a planned finish?


I know it doesnt look like something you would buy from a company, it is pretty much my first ever tig welding project. The easiest way to make a manifold this compact pretty, i feel, would be to cast it. 

If you havent noticed my car is just about all around function over form. So yes its cool having something look pretty its not required to make me happy. I want it to work. 


I plan on wrinkle coating this to help hide some of the imperfections, but that will only be done after everything is working on the car.


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

:beer:


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## kDubya_SE (Jul 30, 2012)

I say rock the raw aluminum look. Why would you want to disguise something you built by hand as purchased parts?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kDubya_SE said:


> I say rock the raw aluminum look. Why would you want to disguise something you built by hand as purchased parts?


I am not trying to make it look like a purchased part. I would just like it to look nicer, and using a textured coating will help that.

It will make me feel better about my ugly welds :laugh:


----------



## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

I don't think it looks ugly, just has that "raw" look of something YOU made. The only thing that would bug me is that damn plastic valve cover! A nice IE valve cover would make this look killer! Anyway the progress is great, keep it up :beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

timmiller05 said:


> I don't think it looks ugly, just has that "raw" look of something YOU made. The only thing that would bug me is that damn plastic valve cover! A nice IE valve cover would make this look killer! Anyway the progress is great, keep it up :beer:


Thanks. If I get around to it, that might be a future project.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Black wrinkle powdercoat. The manifold is not an intercooler- there is very little time in contact with the exterior walls anyways- so don't sweat the heat transfer.

PS: Definitely spring for having it powder coated- that spray can wrinkle will not last on a DD.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Black wrinkle powdercoat. The manifold is not an intercooler- there is very little time in contact with the exterior walls anyways- so don't sweat the heat transfer.
> 
> PS: Definitely spring for having it powder coated- that spray can wrinkle will not last on a DD.


Thanks for the input. The heat transfer concerns are for the front mount heat exchanger. I am definitely doing the manifold. :thumbup:


----------



## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

I know all the answers are there yet, but just wondering what is planned for the timing belt setup? 



mldouthi said:


>


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

MK5CNY said:


> I know all the answers are there yet, but just wondering what is planned for the timing belt setup?


This belt will run off the crank/ac belt. Everything else will stay stock. Ac will "drive" all the acc.

Is that what you were asking?


Also just so everyone is clear as i had this question the other day. The motor out of the car is a spare motor with a bad timing tensioner. I still drive the rabbit every day. I work on it, test fit, trim then put it all back together to drive it the next day.


----------



## Dronks (Jun 7, 2011)

mldouthi said:


> I work on it, test fit, trim then put it all back together to drive it the next day.


:laugh::laugh:


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I plan on wrinkle coating this to help hide some of the imperfections,


I've done that, it's easy and it looks good. :thumbup:


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

For a supercharger kit being built out of someones garage, a little bit of ugly welding is the complaint?  

I received the same complaints when making my first equal length tubular manifold. It was my first welding project and a good leraning experience. Same applies here: learn the fun way by going big and making mistakes along the way! Although I did mine with a MIG..with I had the $$$ for a TIG!


----------



## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Im afraid you are going to be. Some stuff came up and it looks like I wont be able to work as much on this like I had hoped. I should have the welding done though.


Definitely not disappointed :thumbup::thumbup: Its looking great, almost finished? I'm looking forward to the first start and seeing what sort of setup will be done with the hood vent that was pictured a couple pages back opcorn:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Lookin good


----------



## napkin (Mar 8, 2008)

:thumbup: looks great.

i hope you wont get any belt slip on that setup due to the narrow PK profile

:beer:opcorn:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

magics5rip said:


> For a supercharger kit being built out of someones garage, a little bit of ugly welding is the complaint?
> 
> I received the same complaints when making my first equal length tubular manifold. It was my first welding project and a good leraning experience. Same applies here: learn the fun way by going big and making mistakes along the way! Although I did mine with a MIG..with I had the $$$ for a TIG!


This has definitely been a learning experience. That is the reason I try to make everything I can. even if its for the same price at what I could buy one for. I also earn the knowledge and that is worth a part that doesnt look perfect. 

I think a syncrowave200 is in my near future... hooray tax returns!!





Thagodeus said:


> Definitely not disappointed :thumbup::thumbup: Its looking great, almost finished? I'm looking forward to the first start and seeing what sort of setup will be done with the hood vent that was pictured a couple pages back opcorn:


It is pretty close to being finished, but it will be another week or so before I can work on anything again. 





napkin said:


> :thumbup: looks great.
> 
> i hope you wont get any belt slip on that setup due to the narrow PK profile
> 
> :beer:opcorn:



I how so too. The only thing I am worried about is the crank to ac slipping but I think I only reduced the wrap on the ac pulley by like 15deg or so. That is the reason for the large idler.


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> This has definitely been a learning experience. That is the reason I try to make everything I can. even if its for the same price at what I could buy one for. I also earn the knowledge and that is worth a part that doesnt look perfect.
> 
> I think a syncrowave200 is in my near future... hooray tax returns!!


I'll be scouring craigslist since spending ~$3k for a welder as a hobbyist is a little rich haha


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

magics5rip said:


> I'll be scouring craigslist since spending ~$3k for a welder as a hobbyist is a little rich haha



Its all about who you know


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I'll be relocating to Florida over summer. If you want to take the tig off my hands, I'd be more than happy to let it go. I'm only three hours west of you.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> I'll be relocating to Florida over summer. If you want to take the tig off my hands, I'd be more than happy to let it go. I'm only three hours west of you.


where in florida!?


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm closing on a place in Stuart very soon.


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Damn, that's a little far south. lol.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> I'll be relocating to Florida over summer. If you want to take the tig off my hands, I'd be more than happy to let it go. I'm only three hours west of you.


Pm me the info on it.


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## skidplate (May 4, 2004)

Glad to see that this is nearing completion. :thumbup:


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## kDubya_SE (Jul 30, 2012)

Over a week and no updates? You'd better have that bad boy done and be too busy thrashing it through the mud to update us


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kDubya_SE said:


> Over a week and no updates? You'd better have that bad boy done and be too busy thrashing it through the mud to update us




I have been in germany. Just got back and getting caught up at work. Good news though, Im picking up a tig welder on Monday :thumbup:


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## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm bummed this thread has went a week without an update


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thagodeus said:


> I'm bummed this thread has went a week without an update


 
After getting back from germany I had 2 other 3 day weekend trips and I have to finish building a german wheel by this weekend, so ive been very busy with that. Hopefully I will get the wheel done and can get back on the supercharger.


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

mldouthi said:


> After getting back from germany I had 2 other 3 day weekend trips and I have to finish building a german wheel by this weekend, so ive been very busy with that. Hopefully I will get the wheel done and can get back on the supercharger.


 Lets just call it an intermission......time to refill on popcorn, candy and beer


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Ok... getting back to work on this.

Water tank/ice box pieces all cut out. This will fit in the spare tire well.









I also finished welding the part that mates to the bypass onto the manifold.


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## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

Glad to see more work being done! I can't wait to see this!!


Tapatalkin'


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## napkin (Mar 8, 2008)

mldouthi said:


> I have been in germany. Just got back and getting caught up at work. Good news though, Im picking up a tig welder on Monday :thumbup:


you went to germany and didnt hook me up :sly::beer::beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

napkin said:


> you went to germany and didnt hook me up :sly::beer::beer:


I didn't see you were from Germany. It would have been cool to see some car people while I was there. We (gf and I) were in Frankfurt for about a week for Ambiante (design show) and then went to Stuttgart for a couple days. Then headed home after that.


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## napkin (Mar 8, 2008)

stuttgart is 1 hour away from our garage 
i will visit the eastcoast again next year....


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Wish I would have known. Let me know when/if you are heading over and we will see if its anywhere close to me.

:beer:


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## kDubya_SE (Jul 30, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Ok... getting back to work on this.
> 
> Water tank/ice box pieces all cut out. This will fit in the spare tire well.
> ic:
> ...


Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what would you do with an ice water tank in the trunk?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Well I am adding weight to the front of an already front heavy car. So rather than put the tank up front in the engine bay I decided to mount it in the back. I don't ha e the spare located in the spare well any more because it doesn't fit. So I am utilizing that space. I will run hard lines as far from the front to back as I can so there will only be short sections of actual hose under the car.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Worked all day on this today.

Intercooler plate is sealed, now I just need to add some tubing to redirect the fittings.









I bolted everything up to make sure I wasnt missing anything. I will still have to take it all apart and rtv all the mating faces. The P-Flo will work for now.



























Everything lines up nicely.









The idler took 2.5 hours to put it. Its a very snug fit.









I also found out the 69" 5 rib belt I have is to long, and they dont make the correct length in a 5 rib. So I bought the 6 rib and am going to have to cut a rib off.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I
AM
SO
EXCITED!!!

Dude, keep making the magic happen. I want to hear this thing whine!


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

YUS


----------



## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

This is rocking my socks :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did a little work today. Mounted the wideband, boost and water temp gauges, and ran some wires. Nothing connected yet.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

That is the sexiest dirty bay I've ever seen.


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## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

itskohler said:


> That is the sexiest dirty bay I've ever seen.


X2


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Everything has power now. Just the sensors left to wire in. I ran out of decent light.


----------



## themightyquinn (Dec 30, 2007)

OMG OMG OMG OMG opcorn: :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Finished the intercooler plate


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

More work done tonight.

RTV is between all mating metal surfaces, just waiting to dry. If all goes well, Ill have a first start video tomorrow.










I also tacked together the coolant res. It will need more than just welding together though.


----------



## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)




----------



## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> More work done tonight.
> 
> RTV is between all mating metal surfaces, just waiting to dry. If all goes well, Ill have a first start video tomorrow.


ERMAHGERD :laugh::laugh::laugh::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## sbghms (Aug 19, 2008)

Brace yourselves.


----------



## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

Quick, i need to spend the next 12 hours saran wrapping my keyboard so i dont ruin it :laugh:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Haha. You will have a day or two to wrap your keyboard. I didn't know that the CD C2 sent with the C2ner didnt have my software on it. That was the tuner program and the instructions to send them the stock file. So they said they will get it to me Monday morning. 

Since I had the day to work on the car, its more apart now and I will need to finish some things to be able to start it after work tomorrow.


Pictures shortly.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

IT FITS!! 


















Hardlines for AWIC Plumbing









Home made block off plate









Catch can









What I finished welding on the headers yesterday before my argon bottle ran out and I found out my small "backup" argon bottle had bad gas in it.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Headers wrapped









Installed









Start of the exhaust and enough to test start tomorrow.


----------



## kDubya_SE (Jul 30, 2012)

Dammit, how late do you work??? I want to hear this beast


----------



## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

looking good :beer:


----------



## pazan001 (Feb 18, 2013)

I heard wrapping the headers is not the best idea because they'll crack easier (the logic was that heat is not allowed to escape which helps performance and such but when you turn your car off to cool down, the heat is still not allowed to escape and so the headers stay a lot hotter a lot longer than normal) (they said ceramic coating is the way to go)

Awesome job so far btw:thumbup:


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

I don't understand the logic behind that ^ ?

Either way, wrapping or ceramic coating, the heat is still being held. If anything I think it helps by slowing the reduction of the metal from it being thermally expanded.


Btw, I don't know how you wrapped them, but it's best when they're soaking wet. They stretch when wet and cinch tightly when they dry afterwords.


----------



## pazan001 (Feb 18, 2013)

AJmustDIE said:


> I don't understand the logic behind that ^ ?
> 
> Either way, wrapping or ceramic coating, the heat is still being held. If anything I think it helps by slowing the reduction of the metal from it being thermally expanded.


To be honest I don't either completely.... but this is what Cobb told my friend (he has an STI )


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

pazan001 said:


> I heard wrapping the headers is not the best idea because they'll crack easier (the logic was that heat is not allowed to escape which helps performance and such but when you turn your car off to cool down, the heat is still not allowed to escape and so the headers stay a lot hotter a lot longer than normal) (they said ceramic coating is the way to go)
> 
> Awesome job so far btw:thumbup:


Like already stated that doesnt make a whole lot of sense (none actually). haha.
Ceramic coating is better because it is a better insulator and it is possible to coat the inside and outside of the tubing for even better insulation. Heat wrap does not last as long and is not as effective but its a ton cheaper. Just because you hear people say things doesnt always mean they are correct. And also in case you didnt know the reason for heat wrap/ceramic coating aside from keeping heat in is to make the exhaust gas flow faster (hot air moves faster).

Ceramic coating is the way to go but not for the reasons stated above. 

Something else to through in with your comments. Your friend with the STI has a turbo and therefore builds a ton more head in his manifold. Mine will not be getting anywhere close to as hot as a turbo setup. 



AJmustDIE said:


> I don't understand the logic behind that ^ ?
> 
> Either way, wrapping or ceramic coating, the heat is still being held. If anything I think it helps by slowing the reduction of the metal from it being thermally expanded.
> 
> ...



I didnt wet the wrap. I was rushing to be able to start the car today. I might be redoing the wrap, because I need to take it off and silicone coat the outside anyway.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

First Start!!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Only problem I see so far is I have a fuel injector popping out after revving the car for a couple minutes. 

I dont have retaining clips on the fuel rail I made and the C2 Flange has straight cut injector bungs, so the 1st cylinder injector is getting pushed down into the bung and allowing it to come out of the fuel rail... spraying gas everywhere. haha


If anyone has any input of things they have seen done to fix this, im all ears. I was thinking spacers at the bottom to rest against the plastic shoulder, or drill and tap the bottom of the fuel rail in several places and bolt a retainer plate to that.


----------



## pazan001 (Feb 18, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Like already stated that doesnt make a whole lot of sense (none actually). haha.
> Ceramic coating is better because it is a better insulator and it is possible to coat the inside and outside of the tubing for even better insulation. Heat wrap does not last as long and is not as effective but its a ton cheaper. Just because you hear people say things doesnt always mean they are correct. And also in case you didnt know the reason for heat wrap/ceramic coating aside from keeping heat in is to make the exhaust gas flow faster (hot air moves faster).
> 
> Ceramic coating is the way to go but not for the reasons stated above.
> ...


He wasn't very good at explaining it, I mentioned it because I was reminded and in the hopes that someone had heard it and I could put my doubt to rest I wasn't making any claims 


That thing sounds like a monster :beer:


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

:thumbup:

Sent from a phone booth.


----------



## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> First Start!!


Awesome!! :thumbup:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

So happy to hear this baby whining.

I would just weld tabs on to the fuel rail so you can fasten the fuel rail to the runners. Seems like the easiest way of doing it as well as the most functional.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> So happy to hear this baby whining.
> 
> I would just weld tabs on to the fuel rail so you can fasten the fuel rail to the runners. Seems like the easiest way of doing it as well as the most functional.


The fuel rail is attached to the manifold. The problem is the fuel rail and manifold/injector bungs are fixed and both just cylinders. So when the fuel pressure builds it pushes an injector into the manifold bung. So the fuel rail doesnt move just the injector. 

The manifold side of the injector has an oring that should just sit/press against the hole of the bung. But when the injector get pushed to the point that its leaking fuel, the oring part of the injector is like halfway down the manifold bung (like .5").

Does that make sense?


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

You didn't seat the rail all the way down when you welded the threaded tabs? Only thing I can think of is cut the mounting bosses off the manifold and move them closer to the head flange.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> You didn't seat the rail all the way down when you welded the threaded tabs? Only thing I can think of is cut the mounting bosses off the manifold and move them closer to the head flange.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


I see what you are saying. But welding it lower won't help. The injector is sliding down into the manifold. I just need a way to hold it in place. 

Model something up tomorrow to better explain, and show what I'm thinking of doing.


----------



## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> First Start!!


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, still struggling to understand what you mean. The injector shouldn't move if the fuel rail isn't.

Grab some pics so we can see whats up.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

So here is what is happening (in a very rough drawing)

The injector is being pushed down from the fuel pressure, (on left) is what it starts as and (on right) is when it gets pushed down and sprays fuel.


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

mldouthi said:


>


So is the fuel rail welded to the manifold or it is held in place with those two screw? Why can't you seat the injectors like the OEM rail? isn't the c2 flange made to do that at least that's how it worked for me.


Sent from a phone booth.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

maybe make a collar sleeve type thing ti fit around the injector and hold eac injector in place?


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> maybe make a collar sleeve type thing ti fit around the injector and hold eac injector in place?


was going to suggest the same thing.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> maybe make a collar sleeve type thing ti fit around the injector and hold eac injector in place?


I was thinking that as well. the the there isnt really any "big" shoulder for the spacer to rest against. I still ordered some material to see if I can make that work. 

My other ideas is to weld a bar to the bottom of the fuel rail with holes and notches to allow for the use of spring clips.
Something like this.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

vwluger22 said:


> So is the fuel rail welded to the manifold or it is held in place with those two screw? Why can't you seat the injectors like the OEM rail? isn't the c2 flange made to do that at least that's how it worked for me.
> 
> 
> Sent from a phone booth.


Its held on with mounting plugs and screws.

The OEM fuel rail has spring clips to hole the injectors onto the fuel rail and therefore not push into the injector bungs.


----------



## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

I was gonna say you could try using cotter pins to hold it in place, of course i also dont have any idea what i'm talking about haha


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

It all makes sense now. If the idea that josh had isn't going to work, which was also my initial thought of how to fix it. Then i think your way of using the spring clips is a good idea. Any reason you can't just mill notches into the fuel rail rather than having to add the bar? Will they be up too high or something?


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

mldouthi said:


> Its held on with mounting plugs and screws.
> 
> The OEM fuel rail has spring clips to hole the injectors onto the fuel rail and therefore not push into the injector bungs.


:thumbup:

Sent from a phone booth.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> It all makes sense now. If the idea that josh had isn't going to work, which was also my initial thought of how to fix it. Then i think your way of using the spring clips is a good idea. Any reason you can't just mill notches into the fuel rail rather than having to add the bar? Will they be up too high or something?


Yeah the place for the retaining clips are .185" out of the rail, so material will need to be added to use the spring clip.

I have material on the way (be here tomorrow) for both the spacer idea and the retaining clip idea. 

Looks like exhaust work tonight, and maybe some on the coolant tank if I have time.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh and thanks for all the input :thumbup::thumbup:

Its always better having different views on stuff.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Oh and thanks for all the input :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> Its always better having different views on stuff.


Always happy to help brain storm. Also, the best solution may be both


----------



## randomhero9 (Mar 10, 2011)

*FV-QR*

I am in love


----------



## Gott ist gut (Jul 2, 2010)

:thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Exhaust is almost finished.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)




----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Retaining clip bar welded on. 









Close up of the clip. It seems pretty solid, but we will find out tomorrow when I start it again.









And bolted back onto the motor.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Impatiently waiting for news.

Hope all goes well.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Good news, the retaining clips work....

And the OK news. First run, never went above 0 on the boost gauge, Figured I had a massive leak. Second run fluctuated a and jumped to 10 at one point. And then after that it goes into boost consistently and holds at 7psi. All this is with no cooling.

I am getting a DTC for Intake air temp to high. 

Any thoughts on what could cause the weird behavior in boost? Maybe I just wasnt in the throttle enough to close the bypass, I had a nervous foot the first couple times. 

I have some videos Ill post in a bit.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh and I have only made it to ~4000 before the afr dropped to 9 and I got off the gas. So there should be more than 7psi in this.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYCqHJYDCYw&feature=youtu.be


More to come.....

I need to work more tonight, not upload videos. haha.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

honestly? WOT it.

and yes, im serious.
some companies do a boost controlled by pedal: the more you depress the pedal, the more boost you get.

thats on turbos tho...

the ecu COULD (not sure on this) be closing the throttle a bit and delaying timing if the temps are too high...


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> honestly? WOT it.
> 
> and yes, im serious.
> some companies do a boost controlled by pedal: the more you depress the pedal, the more boost you get.
> ...


I just needed to give it more gas and it'll build boost.


----------



## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

This is amazing to see this. Great work!!


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I want to hear this thing at wot with the charger singing. Sounds so good, keep it up man im so stoked that this has happened.

Biggest grin on my face when i watched that last vid. I can only imagine the grin you must have had. Mixed with sheer terror im sure lol.


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

Awesome work great to see such a cool garage build come to life with every thing that hasn't been done on a mkv yet being done. This deserves a really feature not like those fake ones.

Sent from a phone booth.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks guys, 

Yeah, huge grin on my face having this run, It will be even bigger when I can run the whole rpm range. 

I am almost done with the water tank to that will definitely be in the car by sunday, and hopefully get the hood done also. 

I will definitely need another muffler though. Its super loud and raspy with the headers, no cat and a glasspack.

Im working on another video now that shows the engine, but it was during my first run so I didnt get into boost.


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> honestly? WOT it.
> 
> and yes, im serious.
> some companies do a boost controlled by pedal: the more you depress the pedal, the more boost you get.
> ...


Agreed...if you are running a wideband and the AFR looks good (11.5:1 ish) then push the motor a bit. C2 probably gave you a super conservative base tune so don't worry too much about it.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

magics5rip said:


> Agreed...if you are running a wideband and the AFR looks good (11.5:1 ish) then push the motor a bit. C2 probably gave you a super conservative base tune so don't worry too much about it.


Its good until about 4000rpm then it drops to 9 and the engine kind hesitates so I got of the gas. 

I dont have excel on my home computer to look at the data logs.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)




----------



## Skaffles (May 27, 2011)

:thumbup::thumbup: epic


----------



## vwbiohazard (Feb 2, 2005)

Love love love


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Awesome. Once it's dyno tuned gonna be insane. 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:thumbup:


----------



## Muad Dub (Feb 4, 2012)

Amazing work :thumbup:


----------



## skidplate (May 4, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> Its good until about 4000rpm then it drops to 9 and the engine kind hesitates so I got of the gas.
> 
> I dont have excel on my home computer to look at the data logs.


You're not going to hurt anything running rich. Just stay in it. :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

skidplate said:


> You're not going to hurt anything running rich. Just stay in it. :thumbup:


I think there is something else going on because as soon as it drops to 9 it seems like the power goes away right then. Feels like I get off the gas before I actually do. I dont know much about tuning or the ecu on these cars, but could the ecu be closing the throttle or something like that. I still have been getting a CEL for intake temp to high.


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> I think there is something else going on because as soon as it drops to 9 it seems like the power goes away right then. Feels like I get off the gas before I actually do. I dont know much about tuning or the ecu on these cars, but could the ecu be closing the throttle or something like that. I still have been getting a CEL for intake temp to high.


Like yourself I know absolutely zero about the ecu or tuning on your car, but could your ecu be putting you into "limp mode"? I know on my 1.8t if I have overboost or a spiky boost the ecu freaks and puts me into limp, turn the car off and back on and its happy again. I get two codes from it that are "charge pressure" related, but I woudnt think your ecu would have that parameter. 

just a thought


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

U_know_me said:


> Like yourself I know absolutely zero about the ecu or tuning on your car, but could your ecu be putting you into "limp mode"? I know on my 1.8t if I have overboost or a spiky boost the ecu freaks and puts me into limp, turn the car off and back on and its happy again. I get two codes from it that are "charge pressure" related, but I woudnt think your ecu would have that parameter.
> 
> just a thought


It doesnt go into limp mode. I know that, because if I get out of the throttle and then floor it again it has power right up until that point when the afr drops to 9 around 4000.

We will see what C2 says tomorrow


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I didnt get as much done as I wanted today, Had to make a run to the store and im still short on hose for the awic plumbing

Coolant tank.









View from under the tank and the water pump mounted









All taped up and ready to cut.


----------



## MK5golf (Jun 30, 2012)

:thumbup:informore:thumbup:
If this ever materializes into a kit of sorts or wtv I know what ill be adding to my car


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I think a kit would need a little bit because of what is below, I doubt many people will want to do what I just did, haha.




The deed is done.... I cut my hood.










And started tacking everything together.


















And now grinding it smooth


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh and C2 said they would finalize the tune when I go up there to get dyno tuned. We just need to work out a date for that now.


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

Side view of hood please?

Sent from a phone booth.


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

vwluger22 said:


> Side view of hood please?
> 
> Sent from a phone booth.


This

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)




----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

That's sweet. Kinda reminds me of the newer Subaru sti hoods. 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Well that's awkward...


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Im not sure on the look either, I will have to see how it looks on the car, and once everything is smoothed out. Good thing is, that its metal and can always be changed/fixed.


----------



## HelloMyNameIs (Aug 2, 2011)

Hah, I like the awkwardness of it...goes with the rest of the car. I wouldn't expect anything less on a lifted, knobby-tire, supercharged rabbit :beer:


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I think once it's smoothed its gonna look great. Are you going to debadge the front and fill the notch while you're at it?

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

lessthanalex said:


> I think once it's smoothed its gonna look great. Are you going to debadge the front and fill the notch while you're at it?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


I wasnt planning on it. That would just be one more thing I would have to buy, a badgeless grill. All the little things to complete this are really starting to add up.


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Suppose that's true. Just figured since you have the ability and will be getting it painted anyways now would be a good time to consider it.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

lessthanalex said:


> Suppose that's true. Just figured since you have the ability and will be getting it painted anyways now would be a good time to consider it.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


The center section is going to be black. Im not color matching it. 

Actually I just looked up on ECS and they have chrome ones on sale for $26, Ill just get that and paint it black to match the hood. :thumbup:

So yes, Im filling the notch while Im welding my hood, haha.


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

That hood looks like some serious Mad Max stuff haha. interested in seeing it mounted!


----------



## skidplate (May 4, 2004)

AJmustDIE said:


> Well that's awkward...


My thoughts exactly


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

skidplate said:


> My thoughts exactly


Good thing its not on your car then :laugh:


----------



## kDubya_SE (Jul 30, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Good thing its not on your car then :laugh:


It's like these guys want you to build a custom carbon fiber hood, lol. You put a damn supercharger on it and they're critiquing your hood. :screwy:

I think it looks awesome! It has a mad max/the punisher vibe to it, and at the end of the day you can just blow by anyone that doesn't like looking at it :laugh:


----------



## skidplate (May 4, 2004)

I just figured with the amount of time and effort that went into the charger, we would see something that looks like it had the same care and thought put into it. I still love what you've done to the car. It just seems like this was hurried so you can drive the car on the street. Not that I can blame you. :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

skidplate said:


> I just figured with the amount of time and effort that went into the charger, we would see something that looks like it had the same care and thought put into it. I still love what you've done to the car. It just seems like this was hurried so you can drive the car on the street. Not that I can blame you. :beer:


Ive been driving it  haha. Just with no hood. Well not the past couple days, I have a small leak in the intercooler plate that I am working out, so the car has been sitting.

What makes you think I didnt put any thought into the hood. Not everything has to be super elaborate. The supercharger setup sure isnt. haha. originally I wanted to do a heat extractor type hood, but realized the bypass actuator would stick up out of the hood and wouldnt look good. So I decided on a hump rather than a scoop which in my opinion would have looked worse. I went over all the options I have available to me for doing a hump like this. A foam mold and fiberglass, thermoformed plastic and riveted on to hood (similar look to the flares), just metal..... After all my debate, I decided the all metal approach required the least amount of cutting to get the look I want and would be the easiest to change if I didnt like it. So if this ends up looking bad I can always explore the other two options. The thermoform option would leave a giant hole in the hood that would need to be filled/covered if I didnt like it. and the fiberglass would just give me a similar look to the metal but be a pain to get off if I didnt like it when finished. 
So there is all the thought I didnt put into it.  haha

And the hood isnt done, everything will be smoothed out and painted.


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

What about vents on the rear side of the bump to allow for somewhere for heat to go?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

magics5rip said:


> What about vents on the rear side of the bump to allow for somewhere for heat to go?


:thumbup:

Thought about that for the future. Im not sure the time I will have before sowo. But I did think about doing either louver panel or a extractor vent on the back/top side of the hump. 

But I am worried that will look too busy and very "ricer" so im not sold on doing it yet.


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

you need a jeep offroad snorkle running up the A pillar


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> you need a jeep offroad snorkle running up the A pillar


haha. But then I would feel obligated to drive it under water.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

and the issue is? haha


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Haha..... I cant swim. 






 jk


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Got paid. Bit the bullet and ordered a BFI engine mount


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Got paid. Bit the bullet and ordered a BFI engine mount


Ouch........ dat price


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Blamed the C2 tune for not getting the full rpm range.... When in fact it was my fault. I had a leak in the intercooler plate which I fixed today. 

I wasnt very impressed when I first drove the car (with the leak) But today, after fixing the leak and adding a borla muffler, the car is amazing. I was smiling ear to ear. Very smooth power, got up to 11 psi and was able to rev to 6500 before I figured I better get off the gas. 


I took another video but I will have to shorten it because I drove around for a while. 


:thumbup::thumbup:*C2*:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

New video showing a second and almost all of 3rd gear pull 

Video


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

Cant wait to here it!


----------



## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

That is awesome! 

:thumbup::beer: 



mldouthi said:


> New video showing a second and almost all of 3rd gear pull
> 
> Video


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

why didnt you talk to bfi? i'm sure they would have loved to help on the build with a least a partial discount on the mounts... 

either way, see you in sowo! this should be fun to see. 

congrats! you must be feeling very very happy right now


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh man, i think i just had a crisis...


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

That is awesome!! :thumbup::thumbup: :beer: 

I'd also love to know what the dyno numbers are with a normal set of wheels/tires :laugh:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> why didnt you talk to bfi? i'm sure they would have loved to help on the build with a least a partial discount on the mounts...
> 
> either way, see you in sowo! this should be fun to see.
> 
> congrats! you must be feeling very very happy right now


 
Yes, I am super happy, feels great driving the car, I definitely want to go drive it just to drive it, which hasnt happened in a long time with how gas prices are. 

I dont normally ask for "handouts"... if they are offered I will accept but, otherwise I will just pay the price asked and have a hurt bank account for a while. haha.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Another short video. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DCUMBi3x0w&feature=youtu.be


----------



## cracKness (Feb 20, 2007)

DAT WHINE. :beer:


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

I believe once this car is fully tuned it will be very fun. :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> I believe once this car is fully tuned it will be very fun. :beer:


 I can only imagine, It is super fun right now.:heart:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

cracKness said:


> DAT WHINE. :beer:


 x2


----------



## dk5_gti (Feb 22, 2012)

cracKness said:


> DAT WHINE. :beer:


 X3

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Yes, I am super happy, feels great driving the car, I definitely want to go drive it just to drive it, which hasnt happened in a long time with how gas prices are.
> 
> I dont normally ask for "handouts"... if they are offered I will accept but, otherwise I will just pay the price asked and have a hurt bank account for a while. haha.


 lol, i didnt mean for you to "beg" or ask for "handouts"... but i'm sure that given the opportunity many companies would be willing to pitch in or to let a hand, where possible. 

after all, this is one unique and AWESOME project that has been at least mentioned in over a 12 different places, including Top Gear's (UK) Website.


----------



## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

:beer::thumbup:


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

Now I am smiling ear to ear :thumbup: 
So glad to see something completed on here.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 22, 2011)

Just went through all 30 pages...great work :beer::beer:opcorn:


----------



## mmrabbit (Jun 27, 2008)

Truly awesome!!!!!!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

BFI stage 2 engine mount 









BFI stage 2 Trans mount compared to the old one 









Engine mount, trans insert and dogbone insert all installed. 









Hood is almost done, I had some help from my girlfriend to get this all smoothed out. Needs a little more work, then it will be going back on the car.


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I like it. If it were my hood, I would add two triangular pieces to the side of the center and "diamond" it out - make it wider. Personally, i think the straight sides look a little awkward and It would add a little more shape. Its hard yo explain though.....

And I would definitely add rear facing louvers to the flat section across the whole thing!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks for the input. I get what you are saying, this was the look I was going for, similar to what the old eclipse and talon had, only theres were smaller and off to the side. The sides do flare out about 2 inches, its just hard to tell from the pictures I took. 

The louvers will have to be a project for later on, they would definitely help get some of the heat out from the supercharger, it gets pretty warm after driving.


----------



## U-20T (Jan 29, 2011)

Sub'd its a sweet build.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Heres the videos for comparison, 


Stock mounts 




 


BFI Mount/inserts installed.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

First impressions?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

The car feels completely different. It feels awesome. The car shifts better/smoother, the power feels smoother, and the exhaust even sounds better. I am very happy I spent the money on the mount and inserts.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

I bet the torque of the supercharger and now these mounts feel great with aggressive shifts. I don't know if it was mentioned before but is the car running stock clutch/PP ?


----------



## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

That is such a noticable difference between the first and second video!! Very cool!


----------



## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

Great to see this moving along. Look forward to pics with the hood on the car. :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> I bet the torque of the supercharger and now these mounts feel great with aggressive shifts. I don't know if it was mentioned before but is the car running stock clutch/PP ?


 Yes, I am still on the stock clutch, although I have money set aside for when/if it goes. I just hope I have enough time to save up for an LSD also. It would be great to just get it all done while Im in there.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh, and I am still getting an Intake temp to high code. 

Any thoughts on that? Doesnt the maf read the intake temp, or does the map also read it? That is pre sc so it should be reading air before the air is compressed.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

It needs to be reading the temperature of the air entering the engine. You don't see anybody in their right mind running an IAT sensor before a turbo. As then it would obviously read cooler than post compressor, thus an incorrect reading. 

MAF does not read temperature for the engine, it is solely based to measure airflow by cooling off a wire. 

You need to find some way to get it post charger. Don't know why it's throwing a code if it's before the charger.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> It needs to be reading the temperature of the air entering the engine. You don't see anybody in their right mind running an IAT sensor before a turbo. As then it would obviously read cooler than post compressor, thus an incorrect reading.
> 
> MAF does not read temperature for the engine, it is solely based to measure airflow by cooling off a wire.
> 
> You need to find some way to get it post charger. Don't know why it's throwing a code if it's before the charger.


 The Maf does read the IAT on the 08 rabbit. The 08 rabbits dont have a IAT sensor. 

I have been ignoring it but, I cant pass inspection with a CEL. Maybe heat build up from the sc is making its way to the MAF. Its is only like 8 inches away. Maybe move the Maf further away?


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Hell if I know then, lol, that's news to me!


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> lol, i didnt mean for you to "beg" or ask for "handouts"... but i'm sure that given the opportunity many companies would be willing to pitch in or to let a hand, where possible.
> 
> after all, this is one unique and AWESOME project that has been at least mentioned in over a 12 different places, including Top Gear's (UK) Website.


 x2 :thumbup: 

I sure hope BFI gives you some sort of discount on your next purchase with them. I saw the comparison videos on there FB page this morning. Glad your getting recognition that you deserve this build has been awesome!


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Yeah, Pete contacted me about using the videos. We are good. :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)




----------



## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Awesome build :thumbup:


----------



## MkvMikeD (May 3, 2012)

31 pages read. I'm amazed! I literally drooled at one point. Awesome job man:thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Plug into vag com and check the actual IAT value. More like, the wiring has gotten broken or shorted. 

Heat isn't going to transfer upstream- especially with a plastic maf housing and silicone hoses.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

p[email protected] said:


> Plug into vag com and check the actual IAT value. More like, the wiring has gotten broken or shorted.
> 
> Heat isn't going to transfer upstream- especially with a plastic maf housing and silicone hoses.


 Thanks. I'll check it tomorrow. Just being a broken wire would be awesome.


----------



## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

Going to paint the hood or keep it 2 tone?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

U_know_me said:


> Going to paint the hood or keep it 2 tone?


 That is painted.  I used the same bedliner paint for the center section that I did on my fender flares.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Hood is back on and clears the sc now.


----------



## MkvMikeD (May 3, 2012)

You do some amazing work man. :thumbup:


----------



## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> Hood is back on and clears the sc now.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

I died ^ :laugh: 


**** looks ready to do work man, I like it. :beer:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks everyone:beer: 





[email protected] said:


> Plug into vag com and check the actual IAT value. More like, the wiring has gotten broken or shorted.
> 
> Heat isn't going to transfer upstream- especially with a plastic maf housing and silicone hoses.


 I havent had a chance to check the temps yet, but I did look at the wiring and I have a wire that is broken right at the maf plug. Thanks for the help :thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

White smoke?  

Just noticed the white smoke while taking this video. Looks like I have some more work to do. 


Heres a exhaust video


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Ooooof


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Still trying to figure out the smoke. Will be doing a block test on it tomorrow to see if its the head gasket. 

Heres another video. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcEibnUwKWs


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

You got the beefiest Rabbit in the world now haha! Seriously tho, I love your car on so many levels.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Dude, gotta do the roof in mat black now. The hood looks sweet though.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks tay272 

So I dont have a blown head gasket. Ends up the broken maf wire was causing the smoke. The ecu was thinking I was starting the car in -48degC so it was feeding in the fuel.  

All good now though.:thumbup: 

Thanks Josh and Phil:beer:


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Had to have been causing some real sluggishness too, car feel a tad bit quicker?


----------



## kDubya_SE (Jul 30, 2012)

Might even help with the raspy exhaust note?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

AJmustDIE said:


> Had to have been causing some real sluggishness too, car feel a tad bit quicker?


 I dont know if the car feels quicker, but it starts up smoother, and seems to idle a little better. 




kDubya_SE said:


> Might even help with the raspy exhaust note?


 Still raspy at WOT


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## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> So I dont have a blown head gasket. Ends up the broken maf wire was causing the smoke. The ecu was thinking I was starting the car in -48degC so it was feeding in the fuel.


 Thank God, I got skerred for a moment....... 



DerekH said:


> Dude, gotta do the roof in mat black now. The hood looks sweet though.


 I am going to have to agree, the stickers take your eyes away from the awesomeness of this car.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

So now Im having problems with the gauges.... Well I guess I have been for about a week or so, explanation below. 


I have 2 prosport gauges (boost and water temp) and an innovate wideband. Yesterday was the second time the gauges havent worked on my drive home. Seems like when the car is parked in the sun the gauges dont work. The 2 prosport gauges completely light up, but dimmed, and the wideband flashed 7.5 the whole ride home (this is normally what it does for a few seconds on startup). So the first time this happened, I drove home with the gauges not working and didnt get to look at it right when I got home, a couple hours later (night time) I went out to look at the problem and turned the car on, everything worked fine. It has been rainy and cloudy here for a while but yesterday it was sunny and hot later in the day. Gauges didnt work again on the ride home. This morning I started the car, and the wideband and watertemp work fine and the boost gauge didnt even turn on. 


Thoughts anyone? I have also contacted prosport about it, but from the reviews they wont be much help and in my search I found two other guys with this same problem on a subie forum and the solution there was use a windshield visor. :screwy:


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

You have the 3 pod housing on the top of the dash right ? Maybe if you wrap the inside of the housing with the insulation stuff kind of like sound proofing stuff. Or just turn that vent on and blow a/c in there.


Sent from a phone booth.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

vwluger22 said:


> You have the 3 pod housing on the top of the dash right ? Maybe if you wrap the inside of the housing with the insulation stuff kind of like sound proofing stuff. Or just turn that vent on and blow a/c in there.
> 
> 
> Sent from a phone booth.


 I am more wondering if I have done something wrong to cause this problem. I dont think a gauge should stop working due to being hot. It hasnt started getting hot here in NC yet, but if that is the case, my gauges wont work for months. 

I tried turning the a/c on blast and only running the center vents yesterday, but they still didnt work, its like the whole car need to cool or something.


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

Odd I don't have any experience with them but if its because the whole care is hot then its not looking to good like you said. Hopefully you can figure something out.

Sent from a phone booth.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> Thoughts anyone? I have also contacted prosport about it, but from the reviews they wont be much help and in my search I found two other guys with this same problem on a subie forum and the solution there was use a windshield visor. :screwy:


 Weird. I'd check all the wiring connections first esp your grounds. What wires are you tapping for your power and ground?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

magics5rip said:


> Weird. I'd check all the wiring connections first esp your grounds. What wires are you tapping for your power and ground?


 I didnt tap any wire for ground, just grounded them to bolts on the car/block. 

The guy from prosport said that if the temps get above 150* they can stop working. Im guessing under a black dash in a small space like the pod its getting pretty hot. 

Like you said though its weird that they work all the times other than when its hot out... well other than the boost gauge not working this morning.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> I didnt tap any wire for ground, just grounded them to bolts on the car/block.
> 
> The guy from prosport said that if the temps get above 150* they can stop working. Im guessing under a black dash in a small space like the pod its getting pretty hot.
> 
> Like you said though its weird that they work all the times other than when its hot out... well other than the boost gauge not working this morning.


 I would first try grounding to a wire instead of the chassis. It really shouldn't matter, and its a long shot, but free fixes are always a good place to start. Since these gauges are electronic, the chassis ground point might be adding some additional load to the circuit. Higher resistance, same voltage, lower current through the circuit. 

And yes, 150* is about right for the temp limit but I doubt you in-car temps are that high right now...you could always get a little mini sun/heat reflector and just place it over the gauge pod :laugh:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

magics5rip said:


> I would first try grounding to a wire instead of the chassis. It really shouldn't matter, and its a long shot, but free fixes are always a good place to start. Since these gauges are electronic, the chassis ground point might be adding some additional load to the circuit. Higher resistance, same voltage, lower current through the circuit.
> 
> And yes, 150* is about right for the temp limit but I doubt you in-car temps are that high right now...you could always get a little mini sun/heat reflector and just place it over the gauge pod :laugh:


 The water temp gauge and boost gauge are wired into the same places, and only the boost doesnt work. I can try the ground thing after work. I am also going to make sure the connector didnt some how come loose from the back of the gauge, at lunch. Prosport has replied a couple times today, first to check to make sure I didnt connect the switch power to a dimmer, and then said if I feel the wiring is correct, I would send them the gauge back to check. 

So good customer service so far... which is different from most of the reviews I have read.


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## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

The heat outside isnt particularly the thing you have to worry about, it could be in the mid 70's but with good direct sunlight that dash will heat up like crazy. Maybe a good sunshade will fix the issue, but I wouldn't want a product that only works when its cold, when there are so many other choices that work just fine in any temp. 

Is this really that common with prosport gauges? Living in a similar climate as yourself ( GA ) it could be 4 months with in car temps of well above 150. In my rx8 I have a 3 guage pod with autometer gauges in the center dash and have never ever given any issue no matter the temp. I might be looking for a refund if I was you.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

U_know_me said:


> The heat outside isnt particularly the thing you have to worry about, it could be in the mid 70's but with good direct sunlight that dash will heat up like crazy. Maybe a good sunshade will fix the issue, but I wouldn't want a product that only works when its cold, when there are so many other choices that work just fine in any temp.
> 
> Is this really that common with prosport gauges? Living in a similar climate as yourself ( GA ) it could be 4 months with in car temps of well above 150. In my rx8 I have a 3 guage pod with autometer gauges in the center dash and have never ever given any issue no matter the temp. I might be looking for a refund if I was you.


 Thats what I was thinking. They were gifts, so I will have to track down the receipt. 

We have one of those laser temp gauges here at work so I can check the temp next time it happens.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Took the pod off just now and wiggled the cable connector in the back of the boost gauge and now its working fine. 

Might be sending them back to prosport to check the gauges for problems.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> Took the pod off just now and wiggled the cable connector in the back of the boost gauge and now its working fine.
> 
> Might be sending them back to prosport to check the gauges for problems.


 Wow, thats terrible if they can't operate in an environment that is subjected to shock and vibration. Chuck those things for some VDO or Autometer units!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

magics5rip said:


> Wow, thats terrible if they can't operate in an environment that is subjected to shock and vibration. Chuck those things for some VDO or Autometer units!


 Tell me about it. 
No money for new gauges at the moment though. Prosport wants me to wait until it happens again to send them back to be checked. He also kept telling me to check the wiring, which I dont see how the wiring has anything to do with the sun  haha


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

as i told you on PM, 

the wideband has an op temp. If the sensor (on the exhaust) overheats (very hot exhaust) then it will go into open loop (7.5) 

to solve it i used some temp wrap pn the sensor itself. Look on the FAQ for the gauge...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> as i told you on PM,
> 
> the wideband has an op temp. If the sensor (on the exhaust) overheats (very hot exhaust) then it will go into open loop (7.5)
> 
> to solve it i used some temp wrap pn the sensor itself. Look on the FAQ for the gauge...


 And as I told you on PM, that is not what is happening. The sensor is not over heating, it has nothing to do with the problem. After a 8hr day (~60*) my gauges dont read, mainly the prosport ones. Today it happened again and I had the pod off so I unplugged the 2 prosport sensors and the wideband worked fine. 

So what you said in PM several time and on here in not the correct for my situation. 
Thank you for your diligence to tell me the same thing over and over. :beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did a calculated dyno this morning using the maf data from vagcom. All I could do was a 2nd gear run because there were police out everywhere. But I did as much of 3rd as I could also, and the numbers looked very similar up until where I had to stop. 


Max is 269hp.


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## rabbitlvr (Oct 8, 2011)

Color me impressed. I was only thinking minimal gains but dang. How does the car feel? About stock quickness with the large tires?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

rabbitlvr said:


> Color me impressed. I was only thinking minimal gains but dang. How does the car feel? About stock quickness with the large tires?


 Feels way quicker than stock, even with the larger tires. Before I could be in 5th going 65mph and floor it and they only way anyone else in the car would know I did it was it got really loud, no acceleration. haha. Now even in 5th it goes. 

I like how the power comes in, as its not all at once and doesnt cause the tires to just spin, except in first. But all other gears the gradual increase in power is a nice feeling. And as you can see, the power just keeps coming and doesnt level off until I shift. Im guessing (havent talked to C2 about it yet) that the rev limiter is set to about 6700rpm, but I feel it would make more power past that. 

Overall I am very happy with the performance, I still get the same gas mileage as before, but have a ton more power when I need it. 




Now to work on a cast manifold version


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## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> Now to work on a cast manifold version


 You just cant stop impressing can you? :laugh:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Marcus, I'm not going to be an ass or so here invading on your thread, lol...
Seriously not looking for a discussion nor war.

I know that c2 has been great with you, I know that um didn't answer emails, but do think about it. Fi software is similar, weather you are sc or turbo... And based on the customers, c2 has yet to figure out completely The 2.5. Fi. Even Hans who was dyno tuned by c2, is having issues..

In any case, I love the linearity of the sc! Sok much... More natural than a turbo... And as we discussed.. anything over 250 or so is just plain fun!



Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> I know that c2 has been great with you, I know that um didn't answer emails, but do think about it. Fi software is similar, weather you are sc or turbo... And based on the customers, c2 has yet to figure out completely The 2.5. Fi. Even Hans who was dyno tuned by c2, is having issues..


 If there is any one that can sort out the little details of FI on the 2.5, its Jeff Atwood! But when calls/emails go unanswered you have to do what you have to do in order to get the car back on the road...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> Marcus, I'm not going to be an ass or so here invading on your thread, lol...
> Seriously not looking for a discussion nor war.
> 
> Blah Blah Blah UM FANBOY TALK Blah blah blah
> ...


 Well you are being an ass with that kind of comment in this thread, there is absolutely no need for what you said. If I was having software problems then yes, your post would be welcome. But Im not, so keep your UM fanboy crap out of this thread unless its warranted. 


That being said.... 
C2 has been great throughout this entire process. And I hear what you are saying about other peoples experiences with C2 turbo/FI software, but I am not seeing anything negative so far. Every problem I have had is something I have messed up on, not C2. The gauges are the only problem I have left to figure out. 

If the tune I have now was the final tune, I would be happy.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

In that case I do apologize.. honestly I didn't mean to be an ass.

I won't bring this up again.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> I know that c2 has been great with you, I know that um didn't answer emails, but do think about it. Fi software is similar, weather you are sc or turbo... And based on the customers, c2 has yet to figure out completely The 2.5. Fi. Even Hans who was dyno tuned by c2, is having issues..


 From what I understand, by what Hans has said, is that his issues arose after a had "screwed with some stuff". Either way we will get him taken care of and make sure he is happy with his tune. The tune that Marcus has on his car is our off the shelf F/I 2.5L tune. Looks pretty damn good for a tune on the first S/C 2.5L, even the customer is happy with the way it performs now. So whats your issue with it? I understand you


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> Now to work on a cast manifold version


 Also, this makes me moist. :thumbup::beer:


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## whitefang (May 4, 2012)

I standing on my feet and applauding to you sir for completing such a feat. 

:thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Thanks guys! :beer: 




magics5rip said:


> Also, this makes me moist. :thumbup::beer:


 And girls?..... :laugh: 




whitefang said:


> I standing on my feet and applauding to you sir for completing such a feat.
> 
> :thumbup:


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> Max is 269hp.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> And girls?..... :laugh:


 In a different yet strangely equal way, yes :laugh:


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## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

Love your edit of Greyt's quote haha :laugh: 


Do you plan to go to any shows/events this year? Love to see this thing in person again now that it's SC'd. 
:beer::beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

SocoJoe said:


> Love your edit of Greyt's quote haha :laugh:
> 
> 
> Do you plan to go to any shows/events this year? Love to see this thing in person again now that it's SC'd.
> :beer::beer:


  


Im going to SOWO for sure. That is the only one I am planning on going to at the moment.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

SOWO was a great time and had tons of awesome cars. Felt a little weird coming home because the car wasnt with me. 
Should have some dyno number soon though....


Car in C2's trailer.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Is there any particular reason you're prepping a cast manifold? Is your existing welded manifold insufficient?

BTW, let me know if you do move to Texas. I'd love to see what this car can do in rallyX. opcorn:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Is there any particular reason you're prepping a cast manifold? Is your existing welded manifold insufficient?
> 
> BTW, let me know if you do move to Texas. I'd love to see what this car can do in rallyX. opcorn:



Cast manifold would be for making a kit. :thumbup:

A welded manifold would not be cost efficient, and I feel the cast manifold could flow better with the how the manifold needs to be built because of the tight spaces.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Cast manifold would be for making a kit. :thumbup:
> 
> A welded manifold would not be cost efficient, and I feel the cast manifold could flow better with the how the manifold needs to be built because of the tight spaces.


Wow!

Would all your kits involve hood modification? And would you allow buyers to source their own blowers?

A blower could be advantageous running against escargot-mobiles in a rallyX situation.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Wow!
> 
> Would all your kits involve hood modification? And would you allow buyers to source their own blowers?
> 
> A blower could be advantageous running against escargot-mobiles in a rallyX situation.


I havent gotten far enough into this yet to tell. Sourcing your own s/c would change the design because of the bolt patterns and snout lengths. I found a place I can get new chargers for the cobalt, but they need modification to fit also, TB flange and MAP mount welded shut. We will see how it turns out though, because I know not to many people will want to cut up there hoods. haha.:laugh:

This will probably have to be a group buy type a thing as I dont have the money to front for the number of kits required to make cast manifolds affordable.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> I havent gotten far enough into this yet to tell. Sourcing your own s/c would change the design because of the bolt patterns and snout lengths. I found a place I can get new chargers for the cobalt, but they need modification to fit also, TB flange and MAP mount welded shut. We will see how it turns out though, because I know not to many people will want to cut up there hoods. haha.:laugh:
> 
> This will probably have to be a group buy type a thing as I dont have the money to front for the number of kits required to make cast manifolds affordable.


How are you planning on feeding oil to the blower?

And I definitely agree with you on the group buy idea. Quantity will be the only way to afford builing a botique product. If you wind up here in Texas, I know a few fabs down in Central TX that can do the work for you. And if you didn't know, the guys who make the Evo headers are right outside of town --and DBC is just about an hour away on the new 85-90MPH tollways we have here.

I'm intrested in the dyno results. If this thing builds power well, and if it handles the reduculious climate here well, you'll have a damn fine product on your hands Marcus.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Eaton chargers have a self contained oil setup, and would just need to have the oil changed more often if overclocked. 

I pretty much do all my own fab work. The only things I dont do are because I dont have the tools, so a mill/cnc mill. The guy at my local shop started letting me just pay him a small amount and letting me use his cnc mill. So that will be one negative for moving, having to build a new relationship with a local machine shop. haha.

My guess will be somewhere around 275-300hp with the 3in pulley. I am also going to send C2 a 2.6in pulley to see what that will do.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Eaton chargers have a self contained oil setup, and would just need to have the oil changed more often if overclocked.
> 
> I pretty much do all my own fab work. The only things I dont do are because I dont have the tools, so a mill/cnc mill. The guy at my local shop started letting me just pay him a small amount and letting me use his cnc mill. So that will be one negative for moving, having to build a new relationship with a local machine shop. haha.
> 
> My guess will be somewhere around 275-300hp with the 3in pulley. I am also going to send C2 a 2.6in pulley to see what that will do.


I'm quite jealous of guys like you with fab skills I just don't have...


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

The car is about to get on the dyno.










:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

Dat Gap...LOL


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

First Run Video


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)




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## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

damn that sounds wicked!


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Your car is plain ridiculous. I love it. :thumbup:


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)




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## Thagodeus (Nov 14, 2010)

Numbers, now please :laugh:


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## MK5golf (Jun 30, 2012)

lmao I just played your video and my mom is screaming at me: "Im trying to read here, turn that dam thing off!!!" :thumbup:

Your #s pulease?


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Please, please go punk someone in a GTI. I just want to see it.

PLEASE!


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## vr6-kamil (Sep 14, 2008)

Ok sound what are the dyno numbers for this thing?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I still need to quite the exhaust down a little. It is still very loud, even with the 2 mufflers on there. 

Numbers will be posted tomorrow. :thumbup:


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> I still need to quite the exhaust down a little. It is still very loud, even with the 2 mufflers on there.
> 
> Numbers will be posted tomorrow. :thumbup:


What did Midouthi do to his 2.5S today?

--Dyno'ed it.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Dyno results with the 3in pulley (8psi)


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## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

Pretty killer torque curve all the way through. Kinda surprised by the hp curve though... I would have thought more power would come in earlier.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

timmiller05 said:


> Pretty killer torque curve all the way through. Kinda surprised by the hp curve though... I would have thought more power would come in earlier.


psi increases as the rpms increase. With superchargers it doesnt "come in" like on a turbo. It just gradually increases. Because of that I dont have traction problems past 1st gear. 

I am very happy with it. The power it had felt great and they were able to get quite a bit more out of the tune from when I had the car. I wasnt trying to make crazy power numbers.


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## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

You did good work man! This whole build has been so impressive!


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> psi increases as the rpms increase. With superchargers it doesnt "come in" like on a turbo. It just gradually increases. Because of that I dont have traction problems past 1st gear.
> 
> I am very happy with it. The power it had felt great and they were able to get quite a bit more out of the tune from when I had the car. I wasnt trying to make crazy power numbers.


Excellent work!

Honestly, the only things I'm surprised by is less torque down low than I expected, and that your excellent custom mani didn't allow 7K-rpms. I'm wondering if that Eaton is slightly too small. 

In my experiance with increased displacement blowers on 4-bangers and I-6s usually throw out massive low end torque. With a 7K run, that power curve will just keep climbing --I reckon this motor built for an 8K blower is 275WHP+ easy. With shorter valves and a good cam set, maybe 320-330.

Still 200 minimum torque is frigging epic. Please go punk someone now!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Excellent work!
> 
> Honestly, the only things I'm surprised by is less torque down low than I expected, and that your excellent custom mani didn't allow 7K-rpms. I'm wondering if that Eaton is slightly too small.
> 
> ...


The super short runners hurt the low end torque, the runners are around 2in long.

M90 would have been the optimal choice for this motor but it simply wouldnt fit, as others have tried. I am spinning the little M62 to 13000rpm now and the 2.6 will put it at 15000. I think the reason for the drop in power at the top is the heat build up. I imagine it would be a different story with cooler temps or ice in the box. They were only reading 8-9psi on the gauge and I have seen 11psi on cool mornings here in NC.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> The super short runners hurt the low end torque, the runners are around 2in long.
> 
> M90 would have been the optimal choice for this motor but it simply wouldnt fit, as others have tried. I am spinning the little M62 to 13000rpm now and the 2.6 will put it at 15000. I think the reason for the drop in power at the top is the heat build up. I imagine it would be a different story with cooler temps or ice in the box. They were only reading 8-9psi on the gauge and I have seen 11psi on cool mornings here in NC.


Have you considered a Thunderbunny front end? Airflow will drop those temps without ice.

Or you can shoot meth.

:laugh: Car guys sound like homosexual junkies lol. Trannies, blowers, ice and meth.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

BTW, you should probably cut a scoop into the front of your hood bump for temp control any way you slice it. It will look rally, not rice.


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## crescentwrench (Apr 27, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> The super short runners hurt the low end torque, the runners are around 2in long.
> 
> M90 would have been the optimal choice for this motor but it simply wouldnt fit, as others have tried. I am spinning the little M62 to 13000rpm now and the 2.6 will put it at 15000. I think the reason for the drop in power at the top is the heat build up. I imagine it would be a different story with cooler temps or ice in the box. They were only reading 8-9psi on the gauge and I have seen 11psi on cool mornings here in NC.


Yeah, but you have nothing to make excuses for, man. 

The intake obviously works well. Look how flat your torque reading is through the rpm range, and you don't have any spikes anywhere on the hp curve. 
It's dynoed out to show just how good your engineering has worked out, whether or not it's a happy accident or you wish you could have done things differently. 

I think the numbers look great, but the plotted points are even better. 

And the boost levels are such that you won't be blowing head gaskets and dropping valves. It's an imminently useful and practical approach to modding your car. :thumbup:

After the warranty is up on mine, I'll be putting a tvs homebrew setup on it. SC is the way to go on the 2.5, imo.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

crescentwrench said:


> Yeah, but you have nothing to make excuses for, man.
> 
> The intake obviously works well. Look how flat your torque reading is through the rpm range, and you don't have any spikes anywhere on the hp curve.
> It's dynoed out to show just how good your engineering has worked out, whether or not it's a happy accident or you wish you could have done things differently.
> ...


Where can you source Eaton TVS blowers? I'm assuming you're looking at an R900 since its a tad slimmer than an M62, but is more efficient and runs cooler. Or are you looking at a larger unit?

And, yes. This defo looks like the best real-world use FI setup I've yet seen on a 2.5L. I'd like to see an intercooled Rotrex, but that would probably take an alternator relocate at the very least.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Have you considered a Thunderbunny front end? *Cold* Airflow will drop those temps without ice.
> 
> Or you can shoot meth.
> 
> :laugh: Car guys sound like homosexual junkies lol. Trannies, blowers, ice and meth.


Fixed that/\ 

A more open front bumper wouldnt really help I dont think. 
The heat exchanger isnt obstructed at all. Eatons build a ton of heat just in themselves. Meth would be nice but I dont want something that can run out and just cause me to pay more money for a little extra power on my DD. 






crescentwrench said:


> Yeah, but you have nothing to make excuses for, man.
> 
> The intake obviously works well. Look how flat your torque reading is through the rpm range, and you don't have any spikes anywhere on the hp curve.
> It's dynoed out to show just how good your engineering has worked out, whether or not it's a happy accident or you wish you could have done things differently.
> ...


Thank you very much, I did spend quite a bit of time designing the manifold, but you can only do so much on paper, and only do so much with the space provided. So I dont know that the design should take much credit. 

Your not to far away in ashville, I would love to see more s/c'd rabbits, the car is a blast to drive now. As I mentioned before, I will be working on a cast design and also try to find a supercharger that doesnt need as much modification. I really want to see what a whipple charger will do, but, man are they expensive. 

Hope to see another supercharger build here soon then, Ill be keeping an eye out. :thumbup:


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> A more open front bumper wouldnt really help I dont think.
> The heat exchanger isnt obstructed at all. Eatons build a ton of heat just in themselves.


A buddy of mine has a new Shelby GT500 'Stang, which comes with an Eaton roots blower. Living here in Texas, he needed to do an air/liquid heat exchanger and vent the hood on an otherwise stock car.

You've got that blower crammed in there pretty good, and Eatons do make some serious heat. I'm not sure what the best way to cool your car's blower down would be other than just getting it outside airflow (IE vents).

BTW not trying to tell you what to do. Just thinking about how hot Austin gets.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

What about injecting just straight water?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> A buddy of mine has a new Shelby GT500 'Stang, which comes with an Eaton roots blower. Living here in Texas, he needed to do an air/liquid heat exchanger and vent the hood on an otherwise stock car.
> 
> You've got that blower crammed in there pretty good, and Eatons do make some serious heat. I'm not sure what the best way to cool your car's blower down would be other than just getting it outside airflow (IE vents).
> 
> BTW not trying to tell you what to do. Just thinking about how hot Austin gets.



I have an awic on this and from a thermodynamics stand point a vented hood would be negligible. The surface area on the charger and manifold is way to low to see any gains from having air blowing on it. If I had some type of heat exchanger like on an sti then a scoop or vent would help power. 

I will be making changes to the hood though. I will post that stuff in my cars build thread though. :thumbup:




AJmustDIE said:


> What about injecting just straight water?


Pretty much the same as meth, still something that can run out, and a 255hp DD is plenty for me. My next 2.5 project will be more about numbers and speed.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> a 255hp DD is plenty for me. My next 2.5 project will be more about numbers and speed.


I can appreciate your subtlety, if we can call this subtle in the first place. lol. :beer:


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## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

:beer::beer:


----------



## crescentwrench (Apr 27, 2013)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Where can you source Eaton TVS blowers? I'm assuming you're looking at an R900 since its a tad slimmer than an M62, but is more efficient and runs cooler. Or are you looking at a larger unit?
> 
> And, yes. This defo looks like the best real-world use FI setup I've yet seen on a 2.5L. I'd like to see an intercooled Rotrex, but that would probably take an alternator relocate at the very least.


You're right on the money. R900 is the choice right now. 
I'm realistically 3 years away from modding the car since the wife doesn't want me dorking up the warranty. 
So, I'll be making some parts and probably building a swappable engine and ecu til then.


----------



## crescentwrench (Apr 27, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> I have an awic on this and from a thermodynamics stand point a vented hood would be negligible. The surface area on the charger and manifold is way to low to see any gains from having air blowing on it. If I had some type of heat exchanger like on an sti then a scoop or vent would help power.
> 
> I will be making changes to the hood though. I will post that stuff in my cars build thread though. :thumbup:
> 
> ...


You could conceivably use a reverse scoop to take advantage of the low pressure area in front of the windshield. Extracting hot air that way might allow the use of an airbox with NACA ducts up front and in rear that ventilate it like a horizontal intercooler. Ala subaru.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I have some plans for the hood that will incorporate a heat extractor hood as you mentioned.:thumbup:


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> I have some plans for the hood that will incorporate a heat extractor hood as you mentioned.:thumbup:


You could also built a heatsink of sorts for the blower which would increase the surface area in contact with cool air. I'm not sure how you'd do it, but it's not inconceivable.


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## U_know_me (Aug 3, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> PMy next 2.5 project will be more about numbers and speed.



Please please please explain what ever your talking about good sir!!!! opcorn:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

U_know_me said:


> Please please please explain what ever your talking about good sir!!!! opcorn:


Ill start a new thread when I start the project. Will have a 2.5T, rwd, mid-engine, and hopefully weight less than 1500lbs. 

Something like a mid-engine locost build. Along these lines.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Ill start a new thread when I start the project. Will have a 2.5T, rwd, mid-engine, and hopefully weight less than 1500lbs.
> 
> Something like a mid-engine locost build. Along these lines.


Are you moving to Austin to attend the UT engineering school? If you are, I should introduce you to the guy who sponsors the racing team. I had enormous fun at UT racing.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Are you moving to Austin to attend the UT engineering school? If you are, I should introduce you to the guy who sponsors the racing team. I had enormous fun at UT racing.


Im a mech engineer already. 

Possibly moving because of my significant others job, but its not set in stone yet.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Im a mech engineer already.
> 
> Possibly moving because of my significant others job, but its not set in stone yet.


I see said the blind man -_-


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

2.6in pulley did what I half expected. Created to much heat, so the numbers stay around the same but was pulling timing everywhere to compensate. A new tune would need to be developed and there wouldnt be that much to gain. 

So the final setup will be the 3in pulley. 


I cant wait to get the car back. Big thanks to C2 for all there work. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> 2.6in pulley did what I half expected. Created to much heat, so the numbers stay around the same but was pulling timing everywhere to compensate. A new tune would need to be developed and there wouldnt be that much to gain.
> 
> So the final setup will be the 3in pulley.
> 
> ...


255WHP is nothing to be ashamed of, and it's wise to leave the thermal envelope in the safe zone. :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Oh I am definitely not ashamed. I cant wait to get the car back and feel the power difference. I was happy with it before, not it pick up 25whp and has a much smoother curve.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

That's awesome. Congrats. Can't believe this project is finally "done"

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

Done? I was expecting some Trax and a St Bernard next. Loved the build. Is there a list of woulda-coulda-shoulda?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

MK5CNY said:


> Done? I was expecting some Trax and a St Bernard next. Loved the build. Is there a list of woulda-coulda-shoulda?


Done. I am ready for a new project. I will add a belly pan and a pulley guard to keep water off the pulleys, but then I am finished with the major stuff on the rabbit. Time to just enjoy it.

With any custom part/car unless money was no object, and time was abundant there are always things I would have done different, or maybe that is just me. I have no regrets with the car though, I love how it turned out, and will now just drive the crap out of it. haha.

I am still going to spend some time looking into pricing to make a kit, but that all depends on quantities as the only way to make a kit would be to make a cast version.

I guess I would consider making more supercharger setups similar to mine (welded) but the price wouldnt be as low as if a kit were made.


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## Skaffles (May 27, 2011)

mldouthi said:


> Ill start a new thread when I start the project. Will have a 2.5T, rwd, mid-engine, and hopefully weight less than 1500lbs.
> [/IMG]


Everything about that sounds amazing, YES RWD!!!


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

Great numbers and I love all these 2.5L projects! Such a wonderful engine, I wish it was easy to stuff one into a B5 A4...(NLS tried...and gave up haha)


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

didn't give up 
sold it all to build a R32turbo track car.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

magics5rip said:


> Great numbers and I love all these 2.5L projects! Such a wonderful engine, I wish it was easy to stuff one into a B5 A4...(NLS tried...and gave up haha)


Sounds like a challenge to me. haha


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

After an eventful trip up to C2 I picked up the car, not on the trailer like I was planning. So I drove the car 8hrs home. Not a single problem. 

Very happy with the tuning upgrades, and they were even able to squeeze a little more power out of the 2.6 pulley.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

how was the gas mileage on the trip back?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nickbeezy said:


> how was the gas mileage on the trip back?


Around 23 but that was very mountains hwy driving, with pouring rain for a couple hours, and the basket and no fairing. haha. 

I imagine I will still get my normal ~25mpg around town.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Around 23 but that was very mountains hwy driving, with pouring rain for a couple hours, and the basket and no fairing. haha.
> 
> I imagine I will still get my normal ~25mpg around town.


nice, i cant wait to see your next project with the 2.5t rwd


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> After an eventful trip up to C2 I picked up the car, not on the trailer like I was planning. So I drove the car 8hrs home. Not a single problem.
> 
> Very happy with the tuning upgrades, and they were even able to squeeze a little more power out of the 2.6 pulley.


Give us a vid uphill in the mud. opcorn:


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## logoris (Jun 8, 2012)

Great build, I'm still loving the anti stance.

mldouthi if your interested in a badgeless grill let me know I have one it pretty great looking, I bought it for my dad but he didn't keep the lease so now I'm stuck with it. I saw it was mentioned when you were working on your hood

No clear on it so should be pretty simple to repaint


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

logoris said:


> Great build, I'm still loving the anti stance.
> 
> mldouthi if your interested in a badgeless grill let me know I have one it pretty great looking, I bought it for my dad but he didn't keep the lease so now I'm stuck with it. I saw it was mentioned when you were working on your hood
> 
> No clear on it so should be pretty simple to repaint


Thanks for the offer, but I actually already bought one back before sowo, and didnt end up using it because I didnt have time to fill the bumper "knotch" also. 

Thanks for looking out though :wave:


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## logoris (Jun 8, 2012)

ah no problem


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Just a little update. That car is still running strong. I have 117xxx miles on the car now.

Also the cold weather here in NC is doing wonders for the car. I imagine in the power increase along with the roads and my tires being colder, my 235/75/15 spin in 1st, 2nd, and a little in 3rd at the upper end of the rpms. 

Ill take a speedo video soon. I have been slacking off on that.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

mldouthi said:


> Just a little update. That car is still running strong. I have 117xxx miles on the car now.
> 
> Also the cold weather here in NC is doing wonders for the car. I imagine in the power increase along with the roads and my tires being colder, my 235/75/15 spin in 1st, 2nd, and a little in 3rd at the upper end of the rpms.
> 
> Ill take a speedo video soon. I have been slacking off on that.


GREAT to hear that the car is treating you so well ! ! ! 
This was a fun tuning project to work on, and we look forward to helping out on the next chapter of your build.

C2Motorsports Inc


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

So with all this extra power, do you ever wish you still were normal height and had light wheels for more fun in the twisties?

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

lessthanalex said:


> So with all this extra power, do you ever wish you still were normal height and had light wheels for more fun in the twisties?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk


No, My car still handles really well. I can go faster through corners now than when I was lowered. Stiff springs and 4in wider track width help with the increased COG. Also I cant imagine the wheel spin with 215s and smaller diameter tires.


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## biggerbigben (Jan 21, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> Ill start a new thread when I start the project. Will have a 2.5T, rwd, mid-engine, and hopefully weight less than 1500lbs.


Sounds familiar :laugh:


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> No, My car still handles really well. I can go faster through corners now than when I was lowered. Stiff springs and 4in wider track width help with the increased COG. Also I cant imagine the wheel spin with 215s and smaller diameter tires.


TBH you've probably reduced body roll whereas lowering beyond the point of straight control arms has terrible body roll.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

biggerbigben said:


> Sounds familiar :laugh:


Man, I wish I could get an awesome shell to use like you have.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Well, Last week I went to take some gopro videos, showing the tach and guages..... But here in NC the temps dropped down to the 30s so Im guessing I was making a little more power without all the heat build up from the eaton. Long story short, my clutch is now slipping when I accelerate hard. So the videos will have to wait.

I am talking with the guys at USRT about a new clutch and possible a LSD if I can afford it. Hopefully I will have the car pulling hard again soon.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Well, Last week I went to take some gopro videos, showing the tach and guages..... But here in NC the temps dropped down to the 30s so Im guessing I was making a little more power without all the heat build up from the eaton. Long story short, my clutch is now slipping when I accelerate hard. So the videos will have to wait.
> 
> I am talking with the guys at USRT about a new clutch and possible a LSD if I can afford it. Hopefully I will have the car pulling hard again soon.


TBH you're probably better off buying an 02J with an LSD already installed. I see gearboxes w/ LSD's in e MK4 classifieds for about the same amount of money it costs to put an LSD in.

On the subject of clutches, the VR6 clutch conversion Four Season tuning sells is pretty nice. I drove a friend's turbo rabbit with one --I'll probably buy one myself.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Yeah I sent them a message also, but I will be going to USRT for these parts. 

If there was one sitting in front of my I might go for a trans with a LSD already installed but Im not going to wait around for one to show up in the classifieds. And tbh if I was going to buy another trans it would be one for an awd swap because thats almost half the cost. But I dont have the money for all that.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

No more boost for me 



Well until I get the new clutch in. Any time the bypass closes, my clutch starts slipping really bad. Hope fully I will get one soon.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Bummer, hope you get a new one soon too so you can enjoy the cool boost.


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## d3xtr0se (Jun 24, 2012)

OP, big fan of you doing something new and paving your own path. Ultimately, cost wise, are you happy you went with a sc approach rather than a turbo approach? Curious to hear your take on the value of this inspirational project.


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

Congrats on getting in PVW this month :beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

d3xtr0se said:


> OP, big fan of you doing something new and paving your own path. Ultimately, cost wise, are you happy you went with a sc approach rather than a turbo approach? Curious to hear your take on the value of this inspirational project.


I am very happy with going this route. This was definitely cheaper than going turbo for me. It has not cost me much to build because I did most of the work myself and utilized a used supercharger. I would say that the actual parts that differ from a turbo build cost me under $600 (Intake manifold and Supercharger). And that being said, I didnt need to buy a bypass, wastegate, or any intake piping that I would have if I went turbo. I dont have all the cost together but with a quick add up, I am under $2000 for the supercharger build. 

If I ever had time to put this together as a "kit", I think I could sell it for around $4500 minus tuning. 

Overall, I am super happy with it, and glad I went this route. The power delivery is really nice also for a DD.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

WhatNoGarnish said:


> Congrats on getting in PVW this month :beer:


Thanks


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## d3xtr0se (Jun 24, 2012)

That's awesome, I'll keep my eye on this thread and I'm sure I could find a wrecked ss around here if I decided to go for it. Thanks a lot for the reply and the info, keep up the inspiration.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

d3xtr0se said:


> That's awesome, I'll keep my eye on this thread and I'm sure I could find a wrecked ss around here if I decided to go for it. Thanks a lot for the reply and the info, keep up the inspiration.


I picked up my supercharger off a cobalt ss forum for $150, if you dont want to wait for a wrecked one near you.


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## d3xtr0se (Jun 24, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> I picked up my supercharger off a cobalt ss forum for $150, if you dont want to wait for a wrecked one near you.


That's a clever idea, also that's quite cheap. Thanks!


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## gticraz (Feb 8, 2012)

Is this carb legal?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

gticraz said:


> Is this carb legal?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


This was a custom build. Of course not.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Im moving out to Austin in a couple weeks, so my SC cooling system will be tested for sure. haha. Getting out there just in time for the 100+ deg days.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Im moving out to Austin in a couple weeks, so my SC cooling system will be tested for sure. haha. Getting out there just in time for the 100+ deg days.


What neighborhood? I'm in Austin for business about once a month --I'll have to look you up next time I'm in town!


...and you HAVE to race in Texas Rallysport.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> What neighborhood? I'm in Austin for business about once a month --I'll have to look you up next time I'm in town!
> 
> 
> ...and you HAVE to race in Texas Rallysport.


Barton creek nature preserve area. For sure, let me know when your in town. And yes, I would love do so some rallying.


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## GoliathRage (Dec 12, 2013)

Since your in the Austin area, you should check out Austin Euro Gruppe on facebook. I would also love to see your car! It sounds completely awesome and super unique.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

GoliathRage said:


> Since your in the Austin area, you should check out Austin Euro Gruppe on facebook. I would also love to see your car! It sounds completely awesome and super unique.


Thanks for the heads up about the group. I just join on fb, it would be nice to see some other vw and Audi's around here. Haha


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Thanks for the heads up about the group. I just join on fb, it would be nice to see some other vw and Audi's around here. Haha


The problem with Austin is that Volvos are everywhere. Just remember that fathers buy their daughters Volvos because they want them to survive wrecks --meaning that even the parents of these Volvo drives EXPECT them to have traffic accidents.

Jus' Sayin'


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> The problem with Austin is that Volvos are everywhere. Just remember that fathers buy their daughters Volvos because they want them to survive wrecks --meaning that even the parents of these Volvo drives EXPECT them to have traffic accidents.
> 
> Jus' Sayin'


Yeah, drivers are horrible here. I've been driving to work for 3 days and already seen a wreck. Hope I can keep out of those volvo drivers way.


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## GoliathRage (Dec 12, 2013)

Yeah austin drivers are terrible... They don't know that the left lane is for faster moving traffic on mopac.


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## mdr (Dec 30, 2005)

Traffic on MoPac moves?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I havent had the need to drive on mopac so far. Sounds like a good habit to get into. My work commute is cake, Southwest or 71 up to spicewood


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mdr said:


> Traffic on MoPac moves?


He's new, he hasn't learned that MoPac is the state's 2nd largest parking lot behind all of Houston.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> I havent had the need to drive on mopac so far. Sounds like a good habit to get into. My work commute is cake, Southwest or 71 up to spicewood


Just avoid MoPac. Period. There's always a better way.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Might start messing with this again. See about fitting something under the stock hood. I will have a much better idea now with a new toy I got for christmas. Rough 3D scans of a 2.5.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> Might start messing with this again. See about fitting something under the stock hood. I will have a much better idea now with a new toy I got for christmas. Rough 3D scans of a 2.5.


That would be more salable as a kit, I'd venture.


There's so much great 2.5L work finally happening!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

That is the plan. Something that others would be comfortable putting on there car, and not having to cut it up.


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

Are you able to get a Higher resolution model?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

mk6matt said:


> Are you able to get a Higher resolution model?


I would have to scan it in smaller sections or individual parts. I can only export 75000 facets. This is a really cheap way of scanning, it only cost me $275 to be able to do this. And I just need to know the parts I design won't hit other parts or the hood.


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## logoris (Jun 8, 2012)

If you are looking for something compact couldnt you go with an electric compressor/turbo you would be able to control when you get full boost and be able to have a base turbine idle speed to reduce spin up time.

Sent from my Galaxy Note


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

Is this something you could import into a CAD program like Solidworks?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

logoris said:


> If you are looking for something compact couldnt you go with an electric compressor/turbo you would be able to control when you get full boost and be able to have a base turbine idle speed to reduce spin up time.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Note



I am going to be designing it to work with a MP62, The bypass actuator is really the only problem on my setup, so being able to move it to the bottom of the charger will make it clear the hood. Also there isnt any spin up time on a positive displacement charger, so the power comes on very linearly.





mk6matt said:


> Is this something you could import into a CAD program like Solidworks?


Yes, this screenshot is from solidworks.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

A TTRS crank pulley is larger so it's effectively an OEM overdrive pulley. Have you investigated if that would give any advantages like overdrive pulleys do on some blown cars?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> A TTRS crank pulley is larger so it's effectively an OEM overdrive pulley. Have you investigated if that would give any advantages like overdrive pulleys do on some blown cars?


The crank doesnt have anything to do with the speed of the pulleys, just the size of the drive pulleys. And running a smaller sc pulley speeds it up. I cant run any smaller pulley on my M62, Im already pushing the efficiency of the M62 at 15,000 rpms. The MP62 will spin up more, and is more efficient.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

mldouthi said:


> The crank doesnt have anything to do with the speed of the pulleys, just the size of the drive pulleys. And running a smaller sc pulley speeds it up. I cant run any smaller pulley on my M62, Im already pushing the efficiency of the M62 at 15,000 rpms. The MP62 will spin up more, and is more efficient.


Huh? Isn't the whole point of an under drive or over drive pulley the fact that it alters the speed at which the entire pulley system rotates?

That said, if you've maxed the blower out, you've maxed the blower out and you aren't going to get more out of it.


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Huh? Isn't the whole point of an under drive or over drive pulley the fact that it alters the speed at which the entire pulley system rotates?
> 
> That said, if you've maxed the blower out, you've maxed the blower out and you aren't going to get more out of it.


It all depends where the supercharger pulley is in the system. If the supercharger belt system is in the same plane as the stock belt system and you are running an under/over drive crank pulley the sc speed would change. If another plane is added in the belt system, aka another crank pulley is added just for the sc. Then the original crank pulley size has no effect on the sc speed since both crank pulleys would be spinning at the same speed.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Huh? Isn't the whole point of an under drive or over drive pulley the fact that it alters the speed at which the entire pulley system rotates?
> 
> That said, if you've maxed the blower out, you've maxed the blower out and you aren't going to get more out of it.


Yes, but changing the crank doesnt change the drive, the pulley size does. I am running the supercharger off the crank pulley so is I underdrove the acc I would be doing the same, or if I tried to overdrive the sc by way of the crank pulley I would also be overdriving the acc. So thats why people normally just change the pulley on the sc to "overdrive" it.

As for making more power. I agree, I am maxed out with an M62. But a MP62 is more efficient and is capable of handling more boost and higher speeds. From what I remember it is something like 18,000rpm.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Now I just need some time to work more on the design. 

Magnuson MP62


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

That is a perdy chunk of metal there. Is it the same dimensions as the M?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> That is a perdy chunk of metal there. Is it the same dimensions as the M?


Yes, it would be the same size as a M62 if eaton sold it as a universal unit. Magnuson buying universal cases from eaton and converts them to a twin screw rotor. The bypass actuator is also able to be moved to the other side which will help in the unit clearing the hood.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Yes, it would be the same size as a M62 if eaton sold it as a universal unit. Magnuson buying universal cases from eaton and converts them to a twin screw rotor. The bypass actuator is also able to be moved to the other side which will help in the unit clearing the hood.


Sweet, sounds like a good choice then. How much boost do you think you'll get out of it? also, are you thinking you'll have less heat soak issues with this unit?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Sweet, sounds like a good choice then. How much boost do you think you'll get out of it? also, are you thinking you'll have less heat soak issues with this unit?


Boost shouldnt change much. Its more efficient, twin screw design, so yes less heat. I could try to get more boost out at some point but would definitely need to do something about the belts. A smaller pulley would definitely have problems with a 5 rib belt.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Boost shouldnt change much. Its more efficient, twin screw design, so yes less heat. I could try to get more boost out at some point but would definitely need to do something about the belts. A smaller pulley would definitely have problems with a 5 rib belt.


makes sense, is the plan to keep the same intercooling setup with this unit as well then? Or try to downsize it a bit for better hood clearance? There was word going around of someone making a set of light weight pulleys maybe that company could make a set with an extra rib for you if you don't feel like making them yourself. Pretty stoked to see this project revisited.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> makes sense, is the plan to keep the same intercooling setup with this unit as well then? Or try to downsize it a bit for better hood clearance? There was word going around of someone making a set of light weight pulleys maybe that company could make a set with an extra rib for you if you don't feel like making them yourself. Pretty stoked to see this project revisited.


I will either do another bell core, mounting it a different way or try some laminova intercooler cores, but they seem like more of a pain, so im not sure. Those both would fit inside the manifold and wouldnt really effect the hood clearance. As for the pulleys, they dont seem like that much trouble to make, im more worried about the clearance from the pulley to frame at that point, its pretty tight in there.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Started scanning in some parts. We got a new Faro arm laserline 3d scanner so I figured I would put it to good use. This will still be a slow process as time allows. 

MP62









Stock intake









The overlay of the manifold design I started a really long time ago.









I will most likely need to use a longer snout than what comes on the supercharger I bought. I am very much contemplating going the cast manifold route this time.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

And the new scans paired with the only one I did with the Windows Kinect.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Those things are super cool.

I'm pretty stoked to see the new evolution of this project.

On a side note. Feel like those faro arms and 3d scanners are going to make for some pretty entertaining butt photocopies. The high tech prank of the future! Hey bob can you take a look at this scan, i think i found a crack in it...


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## Shnoppsrocket (Sep 11, 2013)

*Supercharger placement*

What if you relocated the rad? i had a rather random idea of mounting mine to my hood, after ripping off my bumper cover + plastics, with a massive rock while offroading. Im currently attempting to lift my jetta at the moment!

look at a old porsche carrera for example, 1987 or so, the engine is oil cooled but the oil cooler is mounted on the hood (trunk), to save space and maximise cooling for a rear engine where air flow is not so great.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Shnoppsrocket said:


> What if you relocated the rad? i had a rather random idea of mounting mine to my hood, after ripping off my bumper cover + plastics, with a massive rock while offroading. Im currently attempting to lift my jetta at the moment!
> 
> look at a old porsche carrera for example, 1987 or so, the engine is oil cooled but the oil cooler is mounted on the hood (trunk), to save space and maximise cooling for a rear engine where air flow is not so great.



There is no need to move the radiator. The goal to this redesign is to come up with a solution that is "bolt on".... So not cut up your hood to have a supercharger, that is the only hurdle now. But it seems everything will fit nicely now that I have the ability to scan parts to check fitment.


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## Shnoppsrocket (Sep 11, 2013)

*Ease of access*

Fair enough on that point, at this point it seems the only way to create a bolt on is to completely redesign the intake manifold, or find a space large enough for the supercharger to sit without heavy modification to existing components.
Given how little space there is the the mk5 2.5L engine bay, that makes your goal rather complex, but a fun challenge! Now this may be an odd idea as well, but what if you mounted it under the manifold? Granted there is little space, and it will be sticking out the bottom of the engine, a bit lower than your oil pan, but you wont have to relocate your rad or heavily modify the intake, the best part is you have direct access to your AC compressor pulley. Plausible idea perhaps? Could use some bastardization, but seems like it may be easier than top mounting it.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Shnoppsrocket said:


> Fair enough on that point, at this point it seems the only way to create a bolt on is to completely redesign the intake manifold, or find a space large enough for the supercharger to sit without heavy modification to existing components.
> Given how little space there is the the mk5 2.5L engine bay, that makes your goal rather complex, but a fun challenge! Now this may be an odd idea as well, but what if you mounted it under the manifold? Granted there is little space, and it will be sticking out the bottom of the engine, a bit lower than your oil pan, but you wont have to relocate your rad or heavily modify the intake, the best part is you have direct access to your AC compressor pulley. Plausible idea perhaps? Could use some bastardization, but seems like it may be easier than top mounting it.


I've always thought it would be cool to mount the SC in place of the AC compressor. it would be super easy to plumb a FMIC and you have good access to incoming air. You would either have to run a duel pulley on the sc or do the math and have a custom pulley on the crank that spins the accessories the right speed. but could provide a good opportunity to do a 6 rib conversion and deal with the tensioner issues.


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## Shnoppsrocket (Sep 11, 2013)

Now that you mention that, removing the ac compressor would free up quite a bit of room for the supercharger, sacrifice your cold air for more speed and your good to go 
Basically the primary concern you have is the pulley, best idea i have off the top of my head is weld to an existing pulley, then again if you do go ahead an remove the compressor, you could just use the pulley from the crank, I guess primary issue there is not a high enough RPM, needing a larger pulley on the drive end.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Shnoppsrocket said:


> Fair enough on that point, at this point it seems the only way to create a bolt on is to completely redesign the intake manifold, or find a space large enough for the supercharger to sit without heavy modification to existing components.
> Given how little space there is the the mk5 2.5L engine bay, that makes your goal rather complex, but a fun challenge! Now this may be an odd idea as well, but what if you mounted it under the manifold? Granted there is little space, and it will be sticking out the bottom of the engine, a bit lower than your oil pan, but you wont have to relocate your rad or heavily modify the intake, the best part is you have direct access to your AC compressor pulley. Plausible idea perhaps? Could use some bastardization, but seems like it may be easier than top mounting it.


I will most definitely be redesigning the intake manifold as a cast piece. It doesnt seem like you have read through this thread, but in short, I have build a new manifold and have an eaton M62 off a cobalt on my car right now and the sc case only rubbed slightly on the hood. The fixed bypass is the problem and reason for needing to cut my hood. The MP62 has a universal bypass actuator that can be rotated along with mounted on either side of the case. Also doing a cast manifold will allow for a design that would be very very difficult to fabricate. There isnt enough room to mount the sc under the motor unless it was completely under the motor. and a positive displacement sc isnt exactly small.




DerekH said:


> I've always thought it would be cool to mount the SC in place of the AC compressor. it would be super easy to plumb a FMIC and you have good access to incoming air. You would either have to run a duel pulley on the sc or do the math and have a custom pulley on the crank that spins the accessories the right speed. but could provide a good opportunity to do a 6 rib conversion and deal with the tensioner issues.


Removing the AC comp is definitely a way to do it, not needed for sure, but you could. Also running a FMIC isnt the best solution for a positive displacement blower. An in manifold AWIC setup works much better. You would have to run a dual pulley on the sc. as the crank and accessories are not in the same plane. A new crank pulley and AC pulley would need to be made to convert to a 6rib system(keeping the AC). Though I do not see a need for it. I have never had the belt slip. And I dont have any fender liners so when it rains my tires through water all over the pulley system. 



Shnoppsrocket said:


> Now that you mention that, removing the ac compressor would free up quite a bit of room for the supercharger, sacrifice your cold air for more speed and your good to go
> Basically the primary concern you have is the pulley, best idea i have off the top of my head is weld to an existing pulley, then again if you do go ahead an remove the compressor, you could just use the pulley from the crank, I guess primary issue there is not a high enough RPM, needing a larger pulley on the drive end.


If someone was to remove the AC comp the best thing would be to machine a dual pulley in the same size as the factory ac pulleys. That way you could keep the drive speed the accessories the same. You would need to us a larger displacement sc to make it worth while as far as pressure goes. Then you might also need to switch to a 6rib system because the larger unit will have more drag on the system and could possibly slip. Thats just a guess though as I havent tried it. 




After messing with the model for the past couple days, I almost think and M90 or MP90 would fit...... So the MP62 will be no problem.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, i didn't think that an FMIC was the most ideal way of cooling the charge. but i figured if you had one mounted down there you could either run a bigger SC or twin charge.

I think the way you have things setup is definitely the coolest way of doing it and probably the most user friendly if the intention is to turn it into a kit. But there are always a bunch of ways to handle things specially something as complicated as modding a car. I enjoy hearing the ideas everyone has even if nothing will come of them. Its always a fun thought exercise.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Yeah, i didn't think that an FMIC was the most ideal way of cooling the charge. but i figured if you had one mounted down there you could either run a bigger SC or twin charge.
> 
> I think the way you have things setup is definitely the coolest way of doing it and probably the most user friendly if the intention is to turn it into a kit. But there are always a bunch of ways to handle things specially something as complicated as modding a car. I enjoy hearing the ideas everyone has even if nothing will come of them. Its always a fun thought exercise.


I wasnt shutting the idea down just giving my 2 cents and have still been thinking about it and it would actually need a triple pulley setup even with a bigger sc. With the factory sized pulleys and a M90 you would only be at around 200whp and 225whp with a M112. Those are both just theoretical numbers but still pretty low for the work involved. A triple pulley would allow the accessories to spin the correct speed and also spin up a sc to a decent speed.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I wasnt shutting the idea down just giving my 2 cents and have still been thinking about it and it would actually need a triple pulley setup even with a bigger sc. With the factory sized pulleys and a M90 you would only be at around 200whp and 225whp with a M112. Those are both just theoretical numbers but still pretty low for the work involved. A triple pulley would allow the accessories to spin the correct speed and also spin up a sc to a decent speed.


I in no way thought that was what you were doing. You have been nothing but an asset to this community. And a great critical thinker.

Any reason why you couldn't do the double pulley on the crank and have one run the accessories and one go to the SC? Also i don't understand how a triple pulley would function on the SC, i would have thought you would use one to run the SC at the speed you want connected to the crank much the way the AC is and one much larger one to run the accessories. To get the speeds right it would just take some math. It is a linear correlation is it not?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I in no way thought that was what you were doing. You have been nothing but an asset to this community. And a great critical thinker.
> 
> Any reason why you couldn't do the double pulley on the crank and have one run the accessories and one go to the SC? Also i don't understand how a triple pulley would function on the SC, i would have thought you would use one to run the SC at the speed you want connected to the crank much the way the AC is and one much larger one to run the accessories. To get the speeds right it would just take some math. It is a linear correlation is it not?


Sorry I dont think I explained the triple pulley well, the smallest pulley would have a separate belt to the sc. As for doing a double on the crank, you could only go out (away from the motor) with the second pulley and that would put you into a position where you would need to modify the frame to clear that belt system. The accessory belts are in a plane to close to the block. And yes, you could run dual pulley with a with a larger acc pulley. I was thinking the acc pulley would need to be to large to fit but I just did the math and it looks like it wouldnt be a problem. That would be a better solution than the triple pulley for sure.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

All this discussion about custom parts is really encouraging me to go to school for CNC. Been considering it for a while but being able to make my own parts is a pretty exciting prospect for me. A matter of making a mounting bracket and a couple pulleys and then plumbing the system.

My car is old enough now that the ac doesn't work too great anyway. Plus i live in canada the ac isn't all that necessary in the first place.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> All this discussion about custom parts is really encouraging me to go to school for CNC. Been considering it for a while but being able to make my own parts is a pretty exciting prospect for me. A matter of making a mounting bracket and a couple pulleys and then plumbing the system.
> 
> My car is old enough now that the ac doesn't work too great anyway. Plus i live in canada the ac isn't all that necessary in the first place.


I say go for it. The CNC schooling and supercharging your car. Although you dont need to go to school to machine part to do what you need for the supercharger setup. Just take some cad classes and buy and education version of the software. Thats where I started and used machine shops to make my parts. Then spend enough time at the shops to let them start using the machines. Then make your own parts. 

I live in TX now to AC is a must even though my new to me cars AC just went out.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

There is a machinist collage about 20 min from me and apparently they have open houses every wednesday so ill be checking that out this week.


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## Matti von Kessing (Jan 17, 2011)

Sub'd for updates to a local project. Cool stuff man.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Here is the start to the manifold. The parting line isnt what I want it to be so it will be changed from this, but hopefully just some tweaks. If not it will need reworked completely. This fits everything in the factory intake and engine cover area.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Looks awesome man, what was the reasoning behind splitting the flange apart? or is it just the angle that makes it look like it is split apart?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Looks awesome man, what was the reasoning behind splitting the flange apart? or is it just the angle that makes it look like it is split apart?


I believe what you are seeing is the "reflection" from the cad program.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

You have undercut issues all along your head flange where the runners meet. (in the corners). 

Can't wait to see this though  Gonna be legit. 

Oh also watch the injector angle and where it puts the fuel rail. That damn cam sensor is RIGHT there. I think TTRS may have a 90 degree angle version of the sensor though you might check if you need more room.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> You have undercut issues all along your head flange where the runners meet. (in the corners).
> 
> Can't wait to see this though  Gonna be legit.
> 
> Oh also watch the injector angle and where it puts the fuel rail. That damn cam sensor is RIGHT there. I think TTRS may have a 90 degree angle version of the sensor though you might check if you need more room.


Thanks for the input. I wish I had a source here that knew more about casting that could give me more tips. But where would the fun be in that. Haha. Yeah, there is quite a bit of work left to get this ready for a mold. I have been looking at having the top side of the flange being on the horizontal plane of the mold. This is actually the second manifold I modeled and the first one was very close to being fine with that parting angle but I didn't really like the plenum shape.
The injector bungs are actually a little lower than from the factory positions but the angle is adjusted a bit to still point them at the valves. These runners we pretty well curved which you can't really see from this view.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

And for the fun of it. How big a M90 looks in that space.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Getting closer. I have all the parting lines worked out. This will need a 3 part mold to do a sand casting. This still isnt the final product by far, there will need to be things filled in to be done as a machine process after casting and things added in that will be machined.... if that makes sense.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Marcus. I'd be interested in a manifold, once you have the design completely worked out. This is neat enough that it's worth hanging on to for a rainy day. Maybe I can help with some of the cost. Or if you want the whole thing CNC'd I can get a hook up, although that'd be a lot more expensive than casting, I'm sure.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Marcus. I'd be interested in a manifold, once you have the design completely worked out. This is neat enough that it's worth hanging on to for a rainy day. Maybe I can help with some of the cost. Or if you want the whole thing CNC'd I can get a hook up, although that'd be a lot more expensive than casting, I'm sure.


Awesome. I will keep this thread updated and let people know when it comes time to getting things tooled up to make. And yes, a cnc manifold would be super expensive... but cheaper than the molds to cast this I would imagine. haha. But that is a one time cost.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Will this be intercooled?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

d-bot said:


> Will this be intercooled?


Yes, it will have a similar awic setup to what I'm running now.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Would it be cheaper to CNC it out of wax and then do a lost wax casting instead of doing up all the tooling to cast everything?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Would it be cheaper to CNC it out of wax and then do a lost wax casting instead of doing up all the tooling to cast everything?


I don't think this design could be machined in reality there are places inside that a tool couldn't get to. Lost wax might be the way its manufactured. I would need to discuss that with the casting people. I'm just doing a sand casting myself because that's what I have the means to make. The only thing I would be lacking to lost wax cast something is a way to cure the investment. Sand seems pretty straight forward.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

With lost wax you wouldn't have to cut it all out of one piece. you could cut it in a few pieces and stick them together. one of the lovely things about working with wax.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> With lost wax you wouldn't have to cut it all out of one piece. you could cut it in a few pieces and stick them together. one of the lovely things about working with wax.


Ahhh, I didnt think about that. Good point. :thumbup:

Although, I still think for my first prototype I will be sand casting it, because I am able to cnc the molds from wood. After that I will let the people making it determine the best way they want to make it. haha.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I wonder how practical a combination of lost wax and sand casting would be. Like packing sand around a wax cast and using that as the mold. Instead of the standard ceramic coating of wax. I'd think that would be a little easier to do as a home setup rather than the full sand casting technique.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> I wonder how practical a combination of lost wax and sand casting would be. Like packing sand around a wax cast and using that as the mold. Instead of the standard ceramic coating of wax. I'd think that would be a little easier to do as a home setup rather than the full sand casting technique.


I feel like the wax would move/bend/break when packing the sand in. But it very well might work. 

The process of sand casting is actually pretty simple. Having a curved parting like and hollow parts are the things that make it a little more challenging. But Ill be able to make aids for all that with the cnc. The core is pretty simple to make also with wood molds. Just fill it with sand and sodium silicate and add some CO2 and it solidifies without having to "pack" the sand in.

I am going to make a more simple part first to not have a part as intricate as the manifold my first casting. I will be making TB to supercharger connector first. I pretty much have a design worked out for it, but I would like to scan the engine bay before finalizing it. Ill post some pictures of it later today.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Sounds pretty cool man. Thanks for all the info. Really enjoying all the learning to be had in this thread.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> Yes, it will have a similar awic setup to what I'm running now.


The previous photos in the thread don't seem to be working for me.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

d-bot said:


> The previous photos in the thread don't seem to be working for me.


Yeah, I noticed that. Same with my build thread. I use facebook to "host" my images, and they seemed to have changed all there picture url locations. If you have facebook, send a pm on here and Ill give you the link.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I moved into a new house and dont have internet set up yet, so I couldnt post anything yesterday.
Here is the image of the inlet and its mold, along with a couple showing its position while mounted.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Very cool. Any idea of how much the final product is going to cost? have to wait to see how much the casting is going to cost to say?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Pretty early to tell on a price. From what I looked into before I think I can get the price similar to a turbo kit making the same power. But, I will have a better idea once I talk with the casting people. I also imagine I am not allowed to talk about that kind of stuff on here as Im not a vendor. So this is just a personal project.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

will it be another one out of one item, or do you plan on selling a few duplicates?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

If it is going to be cheaper to have these made by a quantity greater than one, let me know a $ :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I will be attempting to cast a one of, because its fun and then I can test everything before paying tooling cost for having the cast parts produced. But yes, I plan on making a couple. Possible doing a kick starter type thing as preorders because I doubt I could afford the up front cost.


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## theroccoman (May 8, 2007)

I think i'm going to tag along with this thread. I've been looking into turbos lately because it's the biggest power adder readily available but i sure would love a supercharger instead. If this becomes a viable option i'd probably grab one instead of a turbo.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

In for the preorder for sure!!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I did some more work over the Thanksgiving break.

Test fit samples cut on our 4 axis Haas at work.



























The bypass actuator will be moved to the other side.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

AWESOME! very cool work:beer:
will this need a hood bump too? or fit under?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> AWESOME! very cool work:beer:
> will this need a hood bump too? or fit under?



Thanks, This will fit under the factory hood.

Here is a view showing it compared to the height of the factory manifold (the sc will also be shifted forward (right in the picture) which will give a little more room). The engine cover post gives a good idea of the actual clearance. Looks like all my image links are broken. I need to find a image host site and stop linking pictures from facebook. They change there link names often.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Very cool, looking forward to seeing more progress on this.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

So I decided to sell the Magnuson MP62. So if you know anyone that is interested..... What I going to be using is a Sprintex S5-335 supercharger. I will need to sell the MP62 before I can work on this anymore because I dont have the money to buy another SC. And I will need the new unit to get the measurements right on the design. The S5-335 is a twin screw design and will offer more power, as its capable of high flow numbers and is more efficient. So this project will have the potential for much higher hp numbers (unit is rated up to 500hp).


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Looks a little smaller than the mp62. Pretty cool setup, its a pretty pricey unit though and i can't imagine its too easy to find a used one either.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Looks a little smaller than the mp62. Pretty cool setup, its a pretty pricey unit though and i can't imagine its too easy to find a used one either.


They are almost identical in size, just flows more due to the rotor design. It also uses an external bypass, so that is the reason for it being a little shorter. Also, its not that much more than the MP62, which was $1900 new. Ill be buying a new one from BBM once I sell the MP62. 









A 3in pulley will be at 20psi (theoretical).


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

It looks quite a bit shorter. I get all excited about this project every time you make a post. Can't wait until i can contribute a little more. looks like I'm starting school in February


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

Probably want to throw some polyurethane on that intake manifold to protect the wood from the elements. 

Looks great. Awesome to see all the continued progress on this car.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

A1an said:


> Probably want to throw some polyurethane on that intake manifold to protect the wood from the elements.
> 
> Looks great. Awesome to see all the continued progress on this car.


haha, I was thinking just straight tung oil so it can be refinished easy if it scratches. :laugh:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

laugh.... but i had a mk3 ABA turbo "build" some kid did. we had to fix nearly everything on and they spaced the manifold up(because turbo hit it).... they use 3/4 plywood............................:sly:
wonder why it didn't run right? lets start there.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I bet you get to see all sorts of interesting things like that.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

DerekH said:


> I bet you get to see all sorts of interesting things like that.


:banghead: yup


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

My Sprintex S5-335 will be shipping monday. Looking forward to getting back to work on this project.


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

mldouthi said:


> My Sprintex S5-335 will be shipping monday. Looking forward to getting back to work on this project.


:thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

The new Sprintex S5-335 is in and I got to work modeling.










165mm Extended Drive









Bypass Valve









Supercharger









Will definitely need some updating on the manifold. And maybe a redesign to help with this being my first casting project (for my personal manifold)









Looking at the bypass valve placement options


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Very cool man. Just started school, might be useful in this thread yet


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I want this new upcoming setup so bad


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Did a little work..... Small changes here and there.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Added the bypass valve and started the changes for the intercooler. Ill be using Laminova intercooler cores.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

out of curiosity, what do you draw with? Autocad, solidworks, etc...?

drawing/ drafting skills are amazing, congrats.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> out of curiosity, what do you draw with? Autocad, solidworks, etc...?
> 
> drawing/ drafting skills are amazing, congrats.


Thanks, I do all the modeling in Solidworks (been using for about 12yrs, 6 of which as my 9-5).

The scanning is done with a Faro arm LLP HD 3D scanner, and processed in Geomagic wrap, which isnt a reverse engineering program, as we dont need that for what I do for a living. And the sample cutting programs are all done with MasterCam. And in the future will be posts about the box making for the casting and that will be done on a cnc router table with VCarve pro as the software.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Thanks, I do all the modeling in Solidworks (been using for about 12yrs, 6 of which as my 9-5).
> 
> The scanning is done with a Faro arm LLP HD 3D scanner, and processed in Geomagic wrap, which isnt a reverse engineering program, as we dont need that for what I do for a living. And the sample cutting programs are all done with MasterCam. And in the future will be posts about the box making for the casting and that will be done on a cnc router table with VCarve pro as the software.


12 years eh, might be sending you some messages when i start learning solidworks. Did you do a scan of the engine bay as well? Might hassle you for that if you did. I have some ideas for a different supercharging setup than you are running and it would be cool to mess around with them without ripping apart my car if possible.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> 12 years eh, might be sending you some messages when i start learning solidworks. Did you do a scan of the engine bay as well? Might hassle you for that if you did. I have some ideas for a different supercharging setup than you are running and it would be cool to mess around with them without ripping apart my car if possible.


Solidworks is pretty awesome at how intuitive it is. Also, there are tons of online tutorials compared to other programs. I have used several other cad programs and solidworks is by far my favorite. I have not. It would be a ton of work with the scanner we have. A handheld scanner would work better to that sort of thing. If I ever do, ill post about it and load it to grabcad.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Solidworks is pretty awesome at how intuitive it is. Also, there are tons of online tutorials compared to other programs. I have used several other cad programs and solidworks is by far my favorite. I have not. It would be a ton of work with the scanner we have. A handheld scanner would work better to that sort of thing. If I ever do, ill post about it and load it to grabcad.


That is what i am hearing about solidworks, we are learning cad and mastercam as well. there might be something else that i am forgetting too. Where is it that you work that you have access to such sweet equipment?


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

I agree solidworks is awesome. I have used inventor as well and I definitely prefer solidworks thus far. Geomagic is sweet software as well when your scanning parts.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> That is what i am hearing about solidworks, we are learning cad and mastercam as well. there might be something else that i am forgetting too. Where is it that you work that you have access to such sweet equipment?


Nice. Well if you do have any questions that your class cant answer, I would be happy to help. 

I am a design engineer for a custom rifle company (high end hunting and competition). We cut all the stocks on a 4axis Haas machine, and used the scanner to scan duplicate peoples current rifles and shotgun stocks. Or I make changes for fitment and then cut them.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

The initial design for the intercooler. This will use three 198.2mm X 39mm Laminova cores. It is designed to be a cast part, but might be more cost effective in low quantities as a machined part.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Sounds like a pretty cool job. I like the idea you have for the intercooling setup. It looks like it would be a pretty complicated part to cast, well or machine for that matter lol. Very excited to see this come to life.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Sounds like a pretty cool job. I like the idea you have for the intercooling setup. It looks like it would be a pretty complicated part to cast, well or machine for that matter lol. Very excited to see this come to life.


The casting would be a pretty simple sand casting mold actually. Way more simple than the manifold itself as it would have a straight parting like. I cant wait to get the design part done and start making some tangible things.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

If i wasn't broke as all good god damn id be sending you some coin to help you on the journey. school is done at the end of the year and hopefully i get a job straight out of school. the market for cnc setup/operators here is massive with pretty decent starting rates. My first treat to myself once im out of school is forced induction. So hopefully this project is still going strong by then.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Time to start prototyping the parts.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Supercharger inlet with the bypass valve connection was added.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

looks super sexy. nice work man.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)




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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


>


Exploded views are immensely satisfying for some reason.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Exploded views are immensely satisfying for some reason.


I know what you mean. Animated exploded views are even cooler though, but take more time than I want to spend to have a cool little video. haha.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> I know what you mean. Animated exploded views are even cooler though, but take more time than I want to spend to have a cool little video. haha.


Agreed, i can imagine that would be a fair amount of effort though.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Are you going to make a few of these manifolds and offer them for sale? I'd definitely be interested in one :beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin splits said:


> Are you going to make a few of these manifolds and offer them for sale? I'd definitely be interested in one :beer:


We will see. Ill be posting updates about that on facebook.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> I know what you mean. Animated exploded views are even cooler though, but take more time than I want to spend to have a cool little video. haha.


if you want, let me know and send me the files and i'll animate them to your liking. I have a 2014 full version of SW.

No, i wouldnt do anything with what in the end is YOUR information and design. I'll sign an NDA if you so want it.

I just enjoy playing with SW.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> if you want, let me know and send me the files and i'll animate them to your liking. I have a 2014 full version of SW.
> 
> No, i wouldnt do anything with what in the end is YOUR information and design. I'll sign an NDA if you so want it.
> 
> I just enjoy playing with SW.


Cool thanks. I know what you mean about just playing around with stuff. Thats a lot of what I do in between projects. haha. Just model tons of stuff that I wont ever finish, like the ITB stuff... SRIs.... Motorsports shifters. Maybe once I get everything nail down. It would be cool to have an "how to assemble" type video. :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I was finally able to make the sample cut of the manifold with the clearance changes... along with cutting the rest of the manifold to see how the rest fits. Still some changes to be made.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Any updates or progress on this? Just pulled the trigger on an Evo header because I made up my mind that I want to SC my Rabbit if it becomes an option (and it was a great deal). Never been a big fan of turbos so I'm hoping you can make this work haha.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

tay272 said:


> Any updates or progress on this? Just pulled the trigger on an Evo header because I made up my mind that I want to SC my Rabbit if it becomes an option (and it was a great deal). Never been a big fan of turbos so I'm hoping you can make this work haha.


I have been busy with other projects and havent put the time needed into this. My next step might be to model the manifold in a way to have it cnc cut and bolt together. All the up front costs of casting are the problem right now. Its a big investment up front for tooling/molds. As a cnc manifold could be cheaper in the small numbers that I am expecting for production/demand.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I gotcha, definitely not easy footing the bill for all that your self I'm sure. Just glad someone has the know-how to do what you've done and follow through with it. However long it ends up taking, I'm sure the end product will be worth the trouble.


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## Murderdmk4 (Apr 24, 2021)

lessthanalex said:


> Yes. But I love super. For me, if I couldn't super, I'm stayin NA.


Lol AMR 500 SC BOUT 40O$ CAD. Will work in mk4 use oem alt bracket delete ac pump mill alt bracket delete the secondary fan and voila u have sc mk4 making 350 with some other goodies of course lol


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