# Maintenance Service at 5,000 miles (includes TB 17-06-01, oil quality standards)



## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone?*

I was just wondering if there's anyone had their EOS serviced at 5000 miles yet? If yes, how much and what did they work on? My EOS has about 3500 miles now and I will bring mine in next couple months. And yes, I will definitely get those TB fixes done at the same time.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (darien)*

Canadian owners,
It just kind of registered with me that the US service interval is 5000 miles, is the service intervals on the Canadian models set at 8000 km??

Kevin


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*

Yes - 8000 km. 
I got some story about "break-in oil" from the sales guy, telling me not to come within 10 km of the service department for my 8,000 km service until I had driven all 8000 km. Found it kinda odd...anyone care to explain what "break-in oil" is and why it can't be changed @ 6,000 or 7,000 km?
(Or was this his subtle way of encouraging me not to use the dealership's service department in general?







)


_Modified by neweosowner at 10:55 PM 1-11-2007_


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## Instynct (Sep 7, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (darien)*

I just got mine back this week from the 5k service. Total cost was 88 bucks. Its pretty much just an oil change and a visual inspection of breaks.


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (neweosowner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neweosowner* »_Yes - 8000 km. 
I got some story about "break-in oil" from the sales guy, telling me not to come within 10 km of the service department for my 8,000 km service until I had driven all 8000 km. Found it kinda odd...anyone care to explain what "break-in oil" is and why it can't be changed @ 6,000 or 7,000 km?
(Or was this his subtle way of encouraging me not to use the dealership's service department in general?







)

_Modified by neweosowner at 10:55 PM 1-11-2007_

It was his way of SAVING you money! You PAY for the 5000 mile checkup, at least for the oil change.


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## ATLeos (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (darien)*

Has anyone changed to Mobil 1 (or other synthetic oil) at the 5000 mile service?


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Instynct)*

Thanks. $88 is not bad if they use the synthetic oil. Perhaps I need to check out my dealership's website for Service Specials to save some bucks.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (ATLeos)*

Isn't the VW spec oil synthetic to start with? By the way, Target has Mobil 1 on sale this week for $4.06 a quart so I've been alternating between both stores around here buying all the 10w30 every other day...they don't normally carry the 0w40 or 5w40 grades that VW/German cars normally specfy. 
So that brings me to a point, I have not seen acceptible VW conforming motor oil anywhere around here. What are you guys doing with your Eos for oil? Here's the pdf below of the approved oils, notice that Amsoil and Redline do not make the list, for those who like overmarketed botique oils.
http://www.vw.com/vwcom/conten...t.pdf


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

My 2003 Audi 1.8T orginally required oil changes every 10,000 miles with regular oil, but then there was an issue with oil sludge and they changed the recommendations to every 10,000 mile with synthetic oil. They also extended the engine warranty on all the cars. What has changed that the oil sludge issue would no longer be an issue on another turbo engine that they also don't require synthetic oil now?


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (flheat)*

Looking at the list wolfsburger supplied, they all appear to be synthetic or, at least synthetic blends. 
If sludging is a problem, that may be why the interval is 5000 miles instead of 10,000?
Just guessing.
Kevin


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (flheat)*

This sludge issue on the 1.8 litre turbo engines precipitated VW introducing a specific grade and list of approved oils. For warranty reasons, especially related to sludging I would stick to this list that is provided above. If you do the changes yourself or have an independent do them, keeping the receipt with the oil type identified has in the past been enough evidence to not void warranty; I don't know why this would change. 
Related to special "break-in" oil that was debated on a passat forum and one or more reident chemists there thought that a special break-in oil was horse-feathers. My dealership told me the same thing with the passat, I don't know if this was said to me about about the Eos, I was busy playing with the roof







and might have missed it. I am interpreting this to really mean that it is the VW "break-in procedure" rather than specific oil 
Paul


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (flheat)*

I would encourage you to think differently about manufacturers recommended oil change intervals.
A cost of ownership figure is generated for cars based on the manufacturers recommended service intervals. That's why you see absurd intervals like 100,000 or more miles on spark plugs, or the equally absurd 10,000 mile oil change. The Japanese began recommending these absurd intervals in the 1980s as a marketing tactic. It creates a smaller cost of ownership figure, so when people go to research a car, it appears that one model is cheaper to own than another. There's always an asterisk in your maintenance guide referencing an alternate "severe service" maintenance schedule, which is the one that's closer to reality. This is why its hard to buy a used car anymore, a car that's been serviced under the normal schedule is in reality, a car that's been under-maintained.
Synthetic oil is depleted at 5000 miles, and synthetic only costs $2-$3 more than conventional oil. And don't think the oil filter is some magic bullet either. Your filter only removes so much in the way of contaminants....that's why oil darkens over time, that's particles of soot and metal that are too small for the filter to remove. You get better fuel economy with clean, new oil, so I argue it actually costs more in fuel when you go for these long intervals with oil that's laden with contaminants.
Synthetic oil changes cost me under $30 with filter, and I do them every 3000 miles. I let the oil drain for hours or overnight in my garage. Dealerships and quick lube franchises don't have the ability to allow enough time to let the oil drain properly. Oil is the lifeblood of your engine and the key to long life, smooth operation, and fuel efficiency. At 5000 miles, its simply time for new oil.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Grinder)*

I agree with Paul's comments above. I think that the oil that is put in the car when it is manufactured is normal old motor oil that meets the VW specification for that engine type. The salesperson was probably just trying to encourage you to respect the service schedule for your vehicle, which mandates the first oil change after 5,000 miles (8,000 km) in service.
It is critically important that you use only motor oil that meets the VW specification for the engine installed in your car. For North American purposes, there are two different oil specifications - one for diesel engine cars, and one for gasoline engine cars. The rest of the world (e.g. Europe) uses a different specification for oils because the rest of the world follows an 'on-condition' (flexible) oil change interval, rather than the 'hard-time' (mileage based) interval that is followed in North America.
Attached is a brochure that identifies oils that meet the VW specifications. *The key issue is that for a North American gasoline engine, the oil has to meet the VW 502.00 specification.* If you have the oil change done at your VW dealer, you can take for granted that they will use an oil that complies with this standard. If you have the oil change done elsewhere, make sure that the oil they use is on the approved 502.00 list, and make sure that the receipt (service record) lists the exact name of the oil used, so you can prove that you have maintained the car in accordance with VW requirements, in case you ever have an engine related warranty claim down the road.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (PanEuropean)*

The above PDF is a VW internal document (a technical bulletin), for that reason it doesn't contain very much elaboration about *why *it is so important to use an oil that meets the VW 502.00 specification. So...
Attached below is a consumer distribution document entitled "Choosing the Right Oil for your Volkswagen" that does a much better job of explaining why it is so important to use an oil that meets the VW 502.00 specification. If you download, read, and save both documents (the TB and the consumer brochure), you will have qualified for your Ph.D in Volkswagen Oil Change practices. 
The brochure below addresses 1998 to 2006 VW products, but I am pretty sure that it carries over to 2007 as well. VW published the same brochure a few years ago with the title '1998 to 2004', and the text didn't change when they updated the title to '1998 to 2006'.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_I would encourage you to think differently about manufacturers recommended oil change intervals.

Hi Wolfsburger:
I'm not sure I agree with you on that point. VW has to absorb the risk of warranting the engines for a very long period of time (way longer than the 4 year - 50,000 mile New Vehicle Warranty), so, I think that if they had any reason to believe that changing oil more frequently than what they specify (5,000 miles for the first change, then every 10,000 miles after that) would decrease their risk to warranty claim exposure, they would mandate more frequent oil changes. After all, VW does not pay for the oil changes, but they sure do pay for engine replacements.
In Europe, all VWs have been on a flexible oil change interval service schedule for about 5 years now. In other words, the car tells the driver when it wants the oil changed, based on cycle count and thermal loading. The oil change intervals that the car calls for are actually much further apart than the scheduled oil change intervals used in North America, although it is important to note that the European cars are required to use a different specification of oil that is more expensive than what is used in North America.
Discussing oil change intervals is a lot like discussing religion or politics - different individuals will hold very strong views on the subject, and it is almost impossible to achieve a consensus. Changing the oil more frequently than the manufacturer recommends certainly will not hurt the vehicle, but it does increase operating expense, and there is no objective proof that there is any benefit to be gained from changing the oil more frequently.
I eat my own dogfood on this one - I take my car in for oil changes in accordance with the VW service schedule, and I use whatever oil my VW dealer has on tap that meets the 502.00 specification. I plan to keep my car a long time.
Michael


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
Synthetic oil is depleted at 5000 miles, and synthetic only costs $2-$3 more than conventional oil. And don't think the oil filter is some magic bullet either. Your filter only removes so much in the way of contaminants....that's why oil darkens over time, that's particles of soot and metal that are too small for the filter to remove. You get better fuel economy with clean, new oil, so I argue it actually costs more in fuel when you go for these long intervals with oil that's laden with contaminants.

Synthetic oil is NOT depleted at 5000 miles. The oil change interval for a VW PD TDI engine is 10,000 miles in NA. And as every diesel owner knows, the moment you start the engine, the fresh oil is turned black with soot. 505.01 spec and other diesel rated oils are designed to keep the soot in suspension so it doesn't damage the engine. 
And as to your claim that dirty oil costs more in fuel, I can easily achieve 40 mpg in my Passat TDI on the highway, regardless of how many miles I have on an oil change. Keeping your tires properly inflated probably saves more fuel than an early oil change. As for the wear problem, again, see the forums at tdiclub.com where many members have posted their oil test results showing virtually no wear with 10000 mile OICs.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (PanEuropean)*

Interesting, didn't realize that the European oil is a different spec, remember being very suprised when I came to the US to see that the oil change and service intervals were much closer together and lower than in Europe.


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (ATLeos)*

Yes I changed tp Mobil1 0-40 at 5k. I bought it at AutoZone, but they used to carry it at EvilMart also. The change interval is at 10k miles starting at 10k miles. So you change at 5k 10k 20k etc.


_Modified by gilesrulz at 8:13 AM 1-12-2007_


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
This is why its hard to buy a used car anymore, a car that's been serviced under the normal schedule is in reality, a car that's been under-maintained.
Synthetic oil is depleted at 5000 miles
You get better fuel economy with clean, new oil, so I argue it actually costs more in fuel when you go for these long intervals with oil that's laden with contaminants.
At 5000 miles, its simply time for new oil. 

The statements above are misguided at best, as borne out by field tests. (check the extensive remarks about the 505.1 spec in the diesel forums.)
Changing your oil early can actually have a negative impact on your engine, albeit minimal. Modern oils contain detergents that initially cause more engine wear than the oil that it replaces.
Modern synthetic oils are engineered to last longer than 5000 miles. This is not a simple marketing effort of car companies and oil makers. Modern oils are significantly different than what came in a metal can.
You will undoubtedly notice a slight _decrease_ in gas mileage directly after changing your oil. This is due to the aforementioned wear taking place, and self-corrects after a few hundred miles.
Change your oil when it says to in the manual. They don't put that information in there for marketing. It is there because that is what the engineers put there. Volkswagen demands you use only the most modern synthetic (expensive) oils in your engine. This allows them to extend the change interval to 10k miles after the break in period. 
While over-changing your oil will undoubtedly do less damage to your engine than under-changing it, it will certainly do more damage to your wallet. Like Michael said, people have very strong opinions about oil change intervals, but the opinion that should carry the most weight is that of the people who designed the engine.


_Modified by gilesrulz at 9:04 AM 1-12-2007_


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

That was an interesting post about the cost of ownership affecting the oil change interval. I only recall cost of ownership being reported on the edmunds website, though In other markets where fuel is more expensive I could see this number being more prominent. On the other hand I would have guessed that it is for environmental reasons (sort of like improving the corporate fuel efficiency number) that the change interval has lengthened, and that people don't like knowing the service managers on a first name basis; though both agree with your assertion of longer cycles.

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_Synthetic oil is depleted at 5000 miles 

What do you mean but this? I assume that you mean the lubricating quality is significantly degraded. I had heard that one on the main benefits of synthetic was the resistance to breakdown. To me 3000miles seems quite frequent.


_Modified by Grinder at 5:21 PM 1-12-2007_


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Interesting, didn't realize that the European oil is a different spec, remember being very suprised when I came to the US to see that the oil change and service intervals were much closer together and lower than in Europe.

European vehicles also tend to get the flexible Service Interval (FSI?) gadgetry that monitors key parameters to extend the service intervals of the engine.


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_the rest of the world follows an 'on-condition' (flexible) oil change interval, rather than the 'hard-time' (mileage based) interval that is followed in North America.

Michael

As a side point, the 2006 Honda Odyssey that we just purchased has a "flexible" oil change interval. The salesman gave us an example of a fellow normally driving alone in long highway stretches not getting a replace oil warning until 11,000 km if I recall correctly. I guess I like this feature for its efficiency but, but on-the-other-hand the manual give sparse info about what to expect to be done to ghe vehicle when it its serviced as there is not preset service intervals.
Paul


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_
What do you mean but this? I assume that you mean the lubricating quality is significantly degraded. I had heard that one on the main benefits of synthetic was the resistance to breakdown. To me 3000miles seems quite frequent.

What I mean is there's alot of additives in oil that break down over time, like viscosity stabilizers, detergents, and other anti-wear additives outside of the base oil itself.
I'm not trying to start an arguemt, we all know the clichet about how arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. But really, do you honestly believe a 10,000 mile oil change interval is a reasonable approach to automotive maintenence? especially considering the cost of an oil change?


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (owr084)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_Synthetic oil is NOT depleted at 5000 miles. 

Well, I'm going to wade into this one with my 200 cents worth. The theory I express here is based on my experience with large industrial engines which can execeed several thousand HP, but the basic theory extends over to automotive engines as well.
Theoretically neither synthetic or mineral based oils are depleted at 5000 or 10,000 or even 50,000 miles. The actual oil itself does not break down by any significant amount.
There are two main factors that effect the service life of lubricating oil:
1. Contaminants - this consists of suspended particulate and corrosives.
2. The effectiveness of the additive package, often refered to as "detergent packages".
Suspened particulates are miniscule particles of soot, dirt, etc. that are not removed by the oil filter. They can remain in the oil for two reasons, the size of the particles are small enough to pass through the filter (micron size) or, the oil filter has not been changed soon enough and is past it's capacity to retain particles, so rather than capturing contaminates out of the oil, the oil is actually carrying contaminates back out of the filter. this is why changing your filter on a regular basis is important. (note: no filter is 100% efficient, at least not one you can afford)
Suspened solids are a detriment to your engine because they are abrasive.
Corrosives are created by chemical reactions during the combustion process. Fuel quality plays a large role in the amount of corrosives that can be produced. For example, in Canada our regulations allow for a certain amount of sulpher to be present in fuels (gas and diesel). When sulpher burns it creates sulpher dioxide, when sulpher dioxide comes in contact with water, it creates sulphuric acid. Sulpher in the fuel + moisture in the air + combustion = corrosives.
Corrosives are a deteriment to your engine because they eat away at metal. Particularily at risk are the soft metals used on crank, rod, and camshaft bearings. 
Additive packages consist of a wide variety of substances that are added to the oil to assist with it's two primary functions, lubricating, and cleaning. (oil also assists in cooling, but I'm not certain additive packages have much affect on that) Additive packages are so diverse it is not possible to pinpoint every benefit they provide, but some of the key factors are they assist the oil in cleaning deposits off engine components (detergent) and keep those deposits suspended in the oil so they are carried to the filter rather than re-depositing on another component (reduces sludging). They also assist the adhesion properties of the oil (the ability to cling to surfaces) and assist in regulating the viscosity of the oil as temperatures change (thickness).
It is the additive package that breaks down over time and eventually becomes ineffective.
The oil change interval needs to balance cost effectiveness with ensuring the oil isn't over contaminated and the additive package is still effective.
For example, on large industrial engines oil changes can cost several thousand dollars and you have production losses while equipment is offline for servicing. Because of this we go to great lengths to maximize the service intervals on our engines. This is done in part by selection of oil (usually OEM recommendation) and by taking oil samples and having them analyzed. If an analysis comes back showing the oil is still good, we extend the service interval a bit. This continues until we identify the longest service interval that still shows the oil is functioning the way it should, and contmination levels are acceptable.
Oil analysis for automobiles is not cost effective because the cost of the analysis is more than the cost of the oil change.
The engine manufacture has already done the work for you, they have identified the correct oil filter (size, micron rating, quality) that is best for your car. They have identified the oils that meet there viscosity and additive package requirements, and they have calculated/tested to identify the optimum oil change interval for your car under _*normal or average*_ operating conditions. In orther words, as cost effective as possible while maintaining a "safety factor" on the contamination levels and additive package effectiveness in the oil.
As mentioned in a post above, some manufactures recommend a revised service interval for "severe service". 
If you follow the manufactures recommended service interval for the type of service your car is used, and use recommended oil and filters, your engine should be very well protected.
Kevin








Note: agree with wolfsburger that longer oil drain times are an advantage.
_*Note: as I was typing this up several more posts were made that cover some of what I pointed out. The intent was not to "double up" on points that have already been made.*_
_Modified by just4fun at 10:38 AM 1-12-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 10:46 AM 1-12-2007_


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (owr084)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_
European vehicles also tend to get the flexible Service Interval (FSI?) gadgetry that monitors key parameters to extend the service intervals of the engine.

This was 17 years ago, way before the 'Maintenance required' lights started appearing in the dashboard. I seem to remember by last MKII GTI 8V had 15,000 and 30,000 service intervals in the UK but the same car here had 10,0000 and 20000 intervals.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (mark_d_drake)*

That was a very good post Kevin.


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
What I mean is there's alot of additives in oil that break down over time, like viscosity stabilizers, detergents, and other anti-wear additives outside of the base oil itself.
I'm not trying to start an arguemt, we all know the clichet about how arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. But really, do you honestly believe a 10,000 mile oil change interval is a reasonable approach to automotive maintenence? especially considering the cost of an oil change?

That is what what I though you meant but the word "depleted" was a bit unclear.
I had not heard that phrase about arguing on the internet, I like it








10,000 miles does sound like a long time, but what do I know, I am not involved in automotive engineering. That would be significantly longer then 5000 miles VW mandates. If you are talking about Japanese vehicles, I don't have any personal experience.


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*

Kevin that helps my understanding as well, thank you. Especially that it is not the oil itself that breaksdown.
Paul


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Thanks


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (owr084)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_
European vehicles also tend to get the flexible Service Interval (FSI?) gadgetry that monitors key parameters to extend the service intervals of the engine.

The Chev trucks in our fleet came equiped with this technology a couple years ago, we haven't added any new Chevs to the fleet recently, so I'm not sure if they have continued with it.
Kevin


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_ But really, do you honestly believe a 10,000 mile oil change interval is a reasonable approach to automotive maintenence? especially considering the cost of an oil change?

Yup. It costs me around $40 for 5 liters of 505.01 spec oil and a filter every 10,000 miles. If I changed every 3000 miles, that's an additional $93 I would have to pay, not including my time ( I do my own changes). Then there are also the incidental costs - taking the excess oil to a recycler, the energy wasted to produce the extra oil and to recycle it, etc.


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_10,000 miles does sound like a long time, but what do I know, I am not involved in automotive engineering. That would be significantly longer then 5000 miles VW mandates.

The oil change interval on new VW cars is 10k miles after the break-in period. ie: 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k, etc.


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_
The oil change interval on new VW cars is 10k miles after the break-in period. ie: 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k, etc.

I guess that I did not get it in your first email. Assuming that applies to the turbo 2.0 that is interesting considering the previous sludge problem. I tend to put most km on highway driving without passangers, so I would probably go with the recommended interval here. I think that the engineers would be cautious with this considering the sludge issue. Also there are lots of 2.0T engines out there putting more km than me, so we will soon see if issues are to arise. I think that Audi has been selling a 2.0T for more than a year. 
I think it is generally a good thing, especially for the environment if the intervals between changes can be increased.
Paul


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_
The oil change interval on new VW cars is 10k miles after the break-in period. ie: 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k, etc.

Hey Paul,
Could you, or one of us other Canucks, check the Canadian owners manual to confirm the oil change interval that VW is recommending.
I don't question that 10,000 miles (16,000km) is possible on a hi tech engine running synthetic oil, but I justed checked with my dealership and they told me 8000 km (5000 mi) routine service interval. No change after initial break in period.
Just be curious to know if the Canadian and US owners manuals have different recommendations.
Thanks
Kevin


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*

Sure Kevin, I will check tonight.
Paul


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Grinder)*

Can someone post the UK recomemndations for a 3.2....


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_
The oil change interval on new VW cars is 10k miles after the break-in period. ie: 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k, 40k, 50k, etc.

gilesrulz,
Is this the interval recommened in the owners manual? Just trying to determine if the Canadian and US manuals recommend different intervals.
thanks
Kevin


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_ Assuming that applies to the turbo 2.0 that is interesting considering the previous sludge problem. 

It does.
The brochure included above states that "at the time of printing all of the engine oils Volkswagen is aware of that meet the exacting Volkswagen oil quality standard are synthetic-based", if that answers your sludge question.


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_Is this the interval recommened in the owners manual? Just trying to determine if the Canadian and US manuals recommend different intervals.

That is what is in the US manual. (where k = thousand not kilometers. The interval in kilometers from the US manual is 8000km then 16000km, then every 16000km)


_Modified by gilesrulz at 1:44 PM 1-12-2007_


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*

8, 16, 32, 48, 64 km's....
This applies to most 2007 VW cars in North America it would appear - my warranty booklet is for Eos, Golf, Jetta, Passat, etc. and says 05.2006 English North America.


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2764019
another discussion on this for the 2.0T


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_notice that Amsoil and Redline do not make the list, for those who like overmarketed botique oils.


I have an Amsoil catalogue that shows Amsoil European Car Formula, 5W-40 and meets VW502.00 specifications.
Kevin


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*

my Maintenance manual 1.1 is "englisch Nordamerika" and is in km as others have indicated in km: 8k, 16k, 32k, 48k...
It seems all oth the VW products here have the same oil change interval.
booklet 3.2 page 44:
"...sometimes engine oil should be changed more often than specified for normal use...short distances...dusty...stop-and-go traffic or when you use your vehicle where temperatures stay below freezing point for long periods.
Detergents in oil will make fresh oil look dark after the engine has been running for a short time. This is normal and not a reason to change oil more often than recommended"
-kind of surprising to me, I could not find anywhere that it is written to change the oil at least once every 12 months.
-also while there is no list is states that at the time of printing all oils to meet VW502 00 are synthetic. 
-That VW502 00 must appear on the oil container -(so you don't have to have the list with you when shopping)

Paul


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## sydeos (Dec 30, 2006)

In Australia on the last 3 BMW vehicles I have owned have used variable service intervals. When you first pick up the car is reads 28,000km about 17,400 miles. and counts down from there.
In mostly short city driving I have have oil changes at about 18,000 km or about 11,000 miles. But with more country or freeway driving it would have been further.
This technology has been on BMW for over 20 years but requires fully synthetic oils.

_Modified by sydeos at 4:29 PM 1-13-2007_


_Modified by sydeos at 4:30 PM 1-13-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_
booklet 3.2 page 44:
"...sometimes engine oil should be changed more often than specified for normal use...short distances...dusty...stop-and-go traffic or when you use your vehicle where temperatures stay below freezing point for long periods.


Thanks Paul,
You already answered my next question about what the manual says about "severe service" intervals. Pretty much the same as the brochure Micheal provided.
I'll have to discuss with my dealership why they recommend changing oil every 8000 km instead of following the manual. Could be they consider Canada's weather severe service, which is not unreasonable. But the manual is vague on how much sooner the oil should be changed under severe service conditions. 
If the 'variable frequency" technology is capable of accurately detecting/predicting degredation of oil quality, this speaks highly for wider use of this technology for all the reasons mentioned above, cost, environment, and asset protection.
Since our EOS is going to be a seasonal driver, I will just get the oil changed in the fall, regardless of km's, to ensure there are no contaminants in the oil while in storage.
Just out of curiosity, any of the forum members driving in conditions similar to Canada, is your dealership recommending more frequent service intervals??
Kevin


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (sydeos)*

Leigh,
I'm not too familiar with the variable interval technology, so excuse me if this sounds like a dumb question.
You say that after a service, the system is set to 28,000 km, and then starts counting down to your next service interval.
I assume, depending on actual driving conditions, the technology used would notify you, with say 10,000 km left on the clock, if it determined your oil was losing integrity.
Kevin


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## sydeos (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

Hey Kevin
The "variable" refers to the rate of change of the "countdown" so depending on the sort of driving involved you may see it decrease on a one for one basis or something faster ie 3km on the service interval for every 2km actaully travelled.


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

kevin, i live in northern minnesota, very cold climate, and they still recommend the first two changes at 5 thouisand, and ten thousand there after,, and no your car cant tell if you drive in dust or in city as to when the service light comes on, my dealer never even resat the thingon my first oil change , ha i run castol syntenic in my eos,the recommended, its all good my vette recommends the mobil one , they are both very good oils,


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (sydeos)*

Thanks Leigh.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (minnvw)*

Thanks Doug, Minnesota would certainly be comparable to our climate, so I'll have to follow up on why my particular dealership is recommending more frequent service intervals.
Kevin


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_

I'll have to discuss with my dealership why they recommend changing oil every 8000 km instead of following the manual.










The 1.8T which is roughly the previous version of this engine had 8,000 km change intervals. Possibly your dealer still has this in his/her head.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Grinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grinder* »_
The 1.8T which is roughly the previous version of this engine had 8,000 km change intervals. Possibly your dealer still has this in his/her head.

Could be, but our conversation revolved around all VW's, so you would think they've sold enough 2.0T's by now to be up to date.
Kevin


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*

In case anyone wants more information on the synthetic vs. conventional oil debate, or another opinion on oil change intervals I found a pretty good discussion article at the link below.
Keep in mind this is the authors opinion, based on both fact and conjecture, and whether or not you agree with the author is up to you.
It is, none the less, a pretty good article covering the basics.
*One note:* I gather this article was printed in about 2003-2004, and the author talks about high sulpher levels in fuel. Effective on or before Jan 01/2005, Canada, and I believe the US followed through as well, introduced legislation to limit sulpher content in gasoline to 30 mg/kg (same as 30 parts per million, or ppm). Europe has a directive requiring 50 mg/kg effective 2005 and reduced to less than 10 mg/kg by 2009.
For comparison in 1999 the average sulpher content in Canadian gasoline was 325 mg/kg, but varied by region between 225 - 460 mg/kg. By contrast in 2005-2006 it was constant at 30 mg/kg accross the country.
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm
Kevin


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*

Please see this post for a copy of the 2007 North American Region Eos maintenance schedule: NAR 2007 Eos Maintenance Schedule (2.0 TFSI and 3.2 engines).


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (PanEuropean)*

Funny how things in the world work. Yesterday, the controversial "Truth about Cars" website (I think of it as the evil twin of Jalopnik) had a directly related article about extended oil change intervals.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2945


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Seems there's a common message being sent.
Kevin


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (just4fun)*

Just a caution to forum members who might be new to Vortex: Oil change discussions are worse than discussions about religion or politics. Honest. It is absolutely impossible for one person to change another person's mind concerning oil change intervals.
As for me - I just do what the maintenance booklet says to do, no more and no less. I have no opinion on the subject at all.
Michael


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Just a caution to forum members who might be new to Vortex: Oil change discussions are worse than discussions about religion or politics. Honest. It is absolutely impossible for one person to change another person's mind concerning oil change intervals.
Michael

True......very true.
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 8:54 PM 1-14-2007_


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## pjgraham86 (Aug 10, 2006)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (Grinder)*

I am not aware of a 5000 mile "break in" oil change being recommended for Eos in the UK. My dealer told me it would be 10000 mile intervals.
Any other UK owners told anything different?
Peter


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Maintenance Service at 5000 miles, anyone? (pjgraham86)*

Hi Peter:
Normally, VW products sold outside of the NAR (North American Region) have an entirely different service schedule than those sold within NAR.
It works (generally) like this:
NAR = fixed service intervals ('hard times').
ROW = variable service intervals (cycles and thermal loading).
Any given engine can cope quite well with either form of schedule - fixed or variable. However, the oil that is required to support the variable service intervals is a totally different specification than the oil required to support fixed service intervals. Furthermore, the oil used for variable service intervals is very expensive - well over twice the price of the oil spec for fixed service intervals.
The various VW importers around the world choose which schedule they think will be best accepted by the customers in their country. For NAR, this is the fixed interval. For the ROW, which I believe includes the UK, it is the variable service interval.
Although the cars have the hardware capability to support either scheme, they are coded at the factory for the scheme used in the destination country, and this coding cannot be changed after the car leaves the factory.
Michael


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## Bef (Nov 20, 2005)

Anyone know how to reset the service warning on the MFD? My dealer forgot to reset it after my 5K (which was $55, by the way), and I don't really want to drive all the way out there for something so dumb. We have a VAG-COM, so if anyone knows how to do it, lemme know!!!
*EDIT:*Shaka found this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2457779
We'll let you know how it works!!


_Modified by Bef at 7:53 AM 1-17-2007_


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (Bef)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2929207


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

an Autoweek review of the Audi A3 with 2.0T engine found some oil consumption. So as the manual and others say it is wise to check the oil at fill-up. Though, not knowing what the factory put in exactly, does it matter what is added? Assuming that it is VW approved.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (Grinder)*

Hi Paul,
With regular mineral based oils the general rule of thumb was don't mix brands unless you absolutely have to, but it's better to mix than run low. The oil itself was pretty much compatible, especially if you used the same weight (ie 10w30), but there was some concern that additive packages may not be 100% compatible between brands. I'm not certain if this was actually the case, or just marketing by the manufactures to promote brand loyalty
With Synthetics, mixing becomes a riskier proposition. The molecular bonding used to create synthetic oils could be considerably different between brands, additionally, you still have the possibility of addititive packages being incompatible. 
Moving away from the auto industry for a moment, the general rule of thumb in the oil & gas industry is NEVER mix synthetic oils. At least this is what our suppliers preach very adamently.
The best bet is to use the same brand and weight of oil that is already in the car. I would suspect it is VW brand oil, the dealer should be able to confirm brand and weight (5w40). He may also be willing to identify some compatible brands you could use if you get in a bind.
Kevin








*NOTE:* There can be compatibilty between brands. For example VW builds automobiles, _to the best of my knowledge _they do not blend and package synthetic oils. Therefore they are packaging someone else's oil in VW packaging (same idea as packaging Krytox in the 30ml bottle with a VW part # for $95). If you know who packages VW's oil, that "brand" likely has a compatible blend.

_Modified by just4fun at 8:30 PM 1-17-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 8:30 PM 1-17-2007_


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: (just4fun)*

It was my general understanding that oils should not be mixed, though this did not jump out at me in some of the related articles that have been posted.
So I should have some VW oil on hand in case a top-up is required. I will either and stop by the dealer soon to pick some up, or be sure to check before venturing very far as it is unlikely that that I would do my next oil change with the same oil so if I buy a quart of this, I guess that it would go in the lawn mower if not used.
Thanks,
Paul


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (Grinder)*

The manual does go into this, they say as long as you're not puting in more than a half a quart, whatever is available that meets their standard is fine. In any case in NAR VW branded oil is Castrol Syntech.


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## Canadian Lurker (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*

Yep - Castrol Syntec. Just picked up a quart last weekend from the dealer to have just in case.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*

The post Micheal made several days ago with the brochure "Choosing the Right Oil for Your Volkswagen" gives similar advice. However, without coming right out and saying it directly, it suggests that adding any *VW 502 00 *specification oil is OK. 
It states clearly that "_if VW 502 00 spec oil is not available, only add a maximum of .5 quart (litre) of oil that does not meet VW 502 00 spec_". Preferably synthetic based oil that meets ACEA A3 specification and *only* viscosity grades 5W30 or SAE 0W40.
Here's the link again
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...s.pdf
Kevin


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

i was just reading a article in the newspaper regarding oil changes , milage , idling time, and they say these new cars with built in computers , which the eos has, automacally take into acount idling time, engine temperature and driving conditons when they tell you what percent of your oil is left, or when your oil service is due, I still use the manafactures recommendations, intervals for my service, its cheap insurance when you figure the cost of a new engine, vs a few dollars for a oil change.


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

Kevin,
Great post. Since have firmly established your self as a credible expert, do you know if temperatures affect the useful lifespan of the oil? I have heard that the constant colling and heating of the oil that takes place in colder climates can affect the ability of the oil to suspend the particles. If you don't know, perhaps it would be a good submit to myth busters.


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## just4fun_ (Jan 23, 2007)

*Re: (jgermuga)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jgermuga* »_Kevin,
Great post. Since have firmly established your self as a credible expert, do you know if temperatures affect the useful lifespan of the oil? I have heard that the constant colling and heating of the oil that takes place in colder climates can affect the ability of the oil to suspend the particles. If you don't know, perhaps it would be a good submit to myth busters.









I'm not sure if continued heating cycles would affect the oils ability to suspend particles or not.
Generally speaking the best case scenario for oil is if you can run your engine for an extended period at full operating temperature. (i.e. a good run down the highway). This allows water and other contaminants the chance to boil or "flash off" and vent out of the engine.
Frequent short drives where the engine doesn't have the opportunity to reach full operating temp for a reasonable length of time before cooling off again, can promote the build up of condensation (water) and other contaminants in the oil. Most manufactures recommend a more frequent oil change interval if you run your car in these conditions. (severe service)
Conventional (mineral based) oil is also more susceptible than synthetics to evaporation if operated at very high temperatures. Since VW recommends synthetic oil, this should not be a concern.
Kevin


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