# APR Stage 3 Turbocharger System



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Just one of the components, up close and personal.


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## LilJonny16 (Jan 13, 2009)

You big tease! opcorn:

When I was at one of the annual bbq's, it was mentioned that the most expensive part on the MKV and MKVI Stage 3 turbo kits was your turbocharger exhaust manifold. With you guys no longer needing to include such an exquisite piece, does that mean the Stage 3 kit for the MQB platform will be cheaper than the MKV and MKVI?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Price will be affordable. We're also using an EFR vs a Garret GTX.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Price will be affordable. We're also using an EFR vs a Garret GTX.


So, is it actually twin-scroll? (I see the division and the twist, so I assume so, but..) the integrated manifold also has a division in it, doesn't it? Is the stock S3/R turbo twin-scroll?


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## twenzel (Jan 20, 2011)

I think the stock turbo is twin scroll. 


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## ThorMjolnir (Apr 9, 2014)

*Stock turbocharger certainly is appears to be a dual scroll*

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-8V_S3-Quattro-2.0T_Sedan/Engine/Turbocharger/ES2818190/

The stock S3 turbocharger indeed appears to be a twin scroll. The second to last picture has the exact same pig snout.


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## ThorMjolnir (Apr 9, 2014)

*Not sure about the A3 though*

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3_8V-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Turbocharger/ES2806293/

The 2015 A3 2.0 has the same inlet snout, but doesn't like a twin scroll.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

ThorMjolnir said:


> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-8V_S3-Quattro-2.0T_Sedan/Engine/Turbocharger/ES2818190/
> 
> The stock S3 turbocharger indeed appears to be a twin scroll. The second to last picture has the exact same pig snout.


I'd like someone who's had it in-hand to verify.. the pig snout is suggestive, but I don't feel like it's conclusive.. it's also odd if it is twin-scroll, why they don't mention that in ANY marketing material?

The 'pig snout' (separate inlets) is required for twin-scroll, but doesn't require twin-scroll, if that makes any sense... the division has to be continued all the way to the turbine housing, and it has to be matched by an appropriate combination of firing order and manifold design...


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

Will the stg 3 system bolt to the APR downpipe (not yet released)?

I plan to get the down pipe upon release. My concern is that it will not work with items included in Stg3 Kit. 


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

JGreen76 said:


> Will the stg 3 system bolt to the APR downpipe (not yet released)?
> 
> I plan to get the down pipe upon release. My concern is that it will not work with items included in Stg3 Kit.
> 
> ...


I really doubt it. The turbo location will be completely different as well as the turbo itself is different.


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## ThorMjolnir (Apr 9, 2014)

*Have We Cracked the MQB AWD APR DP Delay?*

Looks like the delay mystery in APR releasing the MQB AWD downpipe may have been solved.


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## Chako (Jun 19, 2015)

Quoted from GeorgeSmooth RE Twin-Scroll: "The turbos are not twin scroll. There is a divider in the beginning of the exhaust housing which helps with the pulsing of the cylinders due to no manifold but it only goes in a few cm's and then it becomes a common housing. This applies to the R and GTI turbo."


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

The head has two ports but they are stacked one on top of the other. So the adapter would need to twist to get the ports side by side for use with a twin scroll turbo. You can kinda see how the ports twist on this adapter above. There are a few more companies working on similar solutions. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

araemo said:


> So, is it actually twin-scroll? (I see the division and the twist, so I assume so, but..) the integrated manifold also has a division in it, doesn't it? Is the stock S3/R turbo twin-scroll?


Stock isn't twin scroll, but our stage 3 system is.


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Stock isn't twin scroll, but our stage 3 system is.


Stock A3 or both A3 & S3 Are not Twin Scroll?

So then, is the stage 3 system only for the A3 or is it also for the S3? If so, is it exactly the same system between the A3 & S3?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

None of the stock turbos are twinscroll, but our stage 3 kit is.

There will be different part numbers for FWD and AWD vehicles if I'm not mistaken. Otherwise the base kits are the same at the moment.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

DarkSideGTI said:


> The head has two ports but they are stacked one on top of the other. So the adapter would need to twist to get the ports side by side for use with a twin scroll turbo. You can kinda see how the ports twist on this adapter above. There are a few more companies working on similar solutions. :thumbup:





[email protected] said:


> Stock isn't twin scroll, but our stage 3 system is.


That's what I suspected (to both of you). So, the stock system is like a 4-2-1 header, for the same reasons a twin-scroll basically only goes to 4-2(or 6-2) until the very end.. just a difference of how far it lets the runners stay separate... it's all about exhaust scavenging and exhaust gas velocity.


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

besides the twin scroll, is there going to be an option for a S3 turbo upgrade as well, with software or did that idea get ditched?


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## LilJonny16 (Jan 13, 2009)

Black Forest posted pics on their A3 build of the S3 turbo and said APR is doing the software. It will be a while before we see that though. I doubt APR would cancel it, considering how many people bought K04's vs Stage 3 kits on the MKV/MKVI platforms. Lots of money to be made.


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> None of the stock turbos are twinscroll, but our stage 3 kit is.
> 
> There will be different part numbers for FWD and AWD vehicles if I'm not mistaken. Otherwise the base kits are the same at the moment.


Sorry if I am not understanding your response properly. 

1. So you WILL have stage 3 kit for the S3 as well?
2. And it will be the same kit as the 2.0T AWD A3?

Thanks.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Spoooolin said:


> besides the twin scroll, is there going to be an option for a S3 turbo upgrade as well, with software or did that idea get ditched?


We're tuning that software now.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CbutterK said:


> 1. So you WILL have stage 3 kit for the S3 as well?
> 2. And it will be the same kit as the 2.0T AWD A3?


Essentially yes to both questions


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Essentially yes to both questions


Thank you for the clarification! So, will there be a HP/Torque output difference between the A3 Stage 3 vs S3 Stage 3, since they are "essentially" the same kit for both versions as you indicated?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CbutterK said:


> Thank you for the clarification! So, will there be a HP/Torque output difference between the A3 Stage 3 vs S3 Stage 3, since they are "essentially" the same kit for both versions as you indicated?


There are some hardware differences between the two models. Fueling isn't identical. So, ideally the stage 3 kit will have different stages designed for completely stock components and other varying levels of upgrades.


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## a3punk (Nov 11, 2014)

What specifically is/are the difference(s) between the A3 / S3 EA888 other than the turbos? Seems the fuel injectors are the same as well as the HPFP. Arin eludes to mechanically there are some differences in hardware... What are they? 

I have googled/searched forums/asked dealers and no one has given me an exact answer as to the difference between the A3/S3/GTI/R EA888 Gen 3. I can only assume the internals for each engine are identical?


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

a3punk said:


> What specifically is/are the difference(s) between the A3 / S3 EA888 other than the turbos? Seems the fuel injectors are the same as well as the HPFP. Arin eludes to mechanically there are some differences in hardware... What are they?
> 
> I have googled/searched forums/asked dealers and no one has given me an exact answer as to the difference between the A3/S3/GTI/R EA888 Gen 3. I can only assume the internals for each engine are identical?


Supposedly the internals are NOT identical, according to statements made to the press during the S3 and R press events. Minor upgrades to some internal components, but still upgrades.


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## a3punk (Nov 11, 2014)

Hrm... Part number search at the dealer yields same crank, same bearings, same timing components, and same connecting rods... 

Just found out after gleaning through a list of part numbers that the exhaust cam and valves differ. 


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## HurrayFive (Jul 12, 2015)

All of the early press material from the Audi reps that was relayed to each of the auto mags/sites says the same stuff. Mainly, the version of the engine in the S3/R has a specific aluminum-silicon alloy cylinder head that's supposedly extremely thermally efficient. Along with revised pistons, connecting rods, sodium filled exhaust valves, and revised direct injection components.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2015-audi-s3-drive-review

"The 2.0-liter is based on the standard A3’s I4, but even the most innocuous of good-natured jokes about it perhaps simply being a “chipped” version of the same will have you ducking for cover from the nearest fuming Audi rep. (Or reps. Ask us how we know.) In fact, it receives various upgrades, including pistons with new bolts and rings, stronger connecting rods, a new aluminum-silicon alloy cylinder head, different injection valves and a different turbocharger."

These others say the same. 

http://jalopnik.com/2015-audi-s3-the-jalopnik-review-1637059502

http://www.automobilemag.com/audi/s3/2015/#reviews

That's all I've seen in terms of difference - I've also seen a single article quote that the S3/R get the newest DQ-400 DSG setup, meaning a rough capacity for 400LB/TQ, where as the A3/GTI ships with the DQ-250. I've yet to see that mentioned anywhere else. My Stage 2 S3 is certainly right at that number, so I hope that's the case


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## a3punk (Nov 11, 2014)

Awesome info there. Thank you!

Seems to be pretty accurate. 

My dealer buddy and I just went through the entire engine part number by part number at the dealership to compare. The only difference in part numbers we can see seems to be the exhaust valves, exhaust cam, and head (presumably only due to slightly larger valves), and obviously the turbo etc.


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