# Began my VR6 turbo install, ran into a few issues



## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

So I finally started my turbo install yesturday on my 95 Bramble Corrado VR6.

(kinetic exhaust manifold and downpipe, precision t3/t4e 60trim .63a/r, C2 36 injectors and chip, planning on doing air/water with a small inline heat exchanger under the car between front bumper and motor roughly, plan to run 10psi but donno which spring to get for my tial wastegate)

So I ran into a couple problems and would appreciate any help/advice from guys that have already done this.

1- the kinetic exhaust manifold install - the lower left most stud on the block, how did you get a 12mm tool in there to tighten down the nut???? :banghead:

2- did you put teflon tape on the oil feed line thread at the turbo end? 

3- the injectors, i'm not sure if they're all seating properly. Is it ok that I assume so, that they will over time vibrate into their most deep position? or do i need to take it all apart and redo it? This is a weird one, it's hard to get all six to sit properly(depth) on both the intake manifold side and the fuel rail side. I did lube the o rings before putting in. Maybe not enough? I donno... I forgot to put the retaining clips in - so I will have to remove the intake manifold again, so I might give it another try with the injectors.

4- Will a single Recirculating valve be sufficient, one that is commonly found on 1.8T motors?

Thats all for now, I didn't get much done yesterday as I wasted a good 4 hours with the exhaust manifold. 

Thanks for any help.


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## BoostedDubVR6T420 (Dec 4, 2009)

If you are doing this install with the motor in the car good luck with the bottom sxhuast mani. bolts, biggest pain ever. Teflon on oil feed yes. The innjectors do kinda seem like they are kinda iffy, but im sure if you have them installed the way the are suppose to be, you'll be alright. Any DV or BOV that recirculates is fine. Good luck with the rest of the build.:thumbup:


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

The stainless oil line in my kit had compression fittings and you're not supposed to use additional stuff to seal that type of fitting, but everything else on that adapter setup you want to use thread sealant. Go with the paste and let it set up. Also make sure that this line is not rubbing against anything or it will saw through it. I just wrapped it with fabric tape.

The kit valve is ok to start with, but you probably want to upgrade that eventually.

The injectors are tough to seat sometimes and the fuel rail will bow in the middle or not seat across evenly. You just want to apply even force along the rail and get everything to sink into place and getting the clips in there is really the best way to know they're in there. Check for leaks.

The manifold nut is a pain even when the assembly is out of the car, which is the only way that I've worked on it. I just used a small open-end and was only able to move it a little at a time, but a ratcheting open-end might work better if the engine is in the car.

You didn't ask but the oil return line is one area that you want to upgrade or at least insulate to start with. The kit rubber line gets brittle being so close to the turbo.


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

* 1- the kinetic exhaust manifold install*
If you look at the casting the upper holes are spot faced so the nuts can torque down flat. The lower holes have no secondary machining because the runners would get in the way so the casting is very angled there. i could not deal so i ground the casting parallel with the mounting surface and gave more room for the nut and wrench. Wasn't fun but the nut is flat now. These castings are thick so I wasn't concerned about weakening it. I also torched a wrench to bend it in the middle to give a little more room around the pump drive housing.

* 2- teflon tape on the oil feed line at the turbo end?*
No it's a taper seat so no tape needed.

* 3- the injectors*
Several issues here! Skinny 36# injectors go further into the lower intake manifold hole than the stock ones. There are no slots in the injector for the spring locks so they can also go too far into the fuel rail. Not good in my opinion. In the worst case of the injector bottoming out in the lower intake, the upper oring is barely engaged at the fuel rail...like not really. To fix this I purchased SS shim washers from McMaster and put them over the discharge side of the body of the injector. The washer locates the injector relative to the lower intake. I also put an extra Injector oring into the fuel rail before putting in the injectors. This locates the injector relative to the fuel rail and gives it a little compliance from the rubber.

* 4- single Recirculating valve*
You are fine at 10 psi.


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## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

Thanks for teh pointers Guys.

I'll have to re do the manifold... 

I'll get to it when shop is freed up.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

*Kinetic Manifold*



vergessen wir es said:


> * 1- the kinetic exhaust manifold install*
> If you look at the casting the upper holes are spot faced so the nuts can torque down flat. The lower holes have no secondary machining because the runners would get in the way so the casting is very angled there. i could not deal so i ground the casting parallel with the mounting surface and gave more room for the nut and wrench. Wasn't fun but the nut is flat now. These castings are thick so I wasn't concerned about weakening it. I also torched a wrench to bend it in the middle to give a little more room around the pump drive housing.



I typically remove a few mm off the lower studs to aid in both the ease of installation/removal of the nuts (they tend to get caught under the runners). Though possible with a regular wrench, I go ahead and mangle a wrench by angling the handle and making the actual contact portion of the wrench slimmer. If you are doing a one-off installation this might not be a requirement but installing/removing manifolds on different cars gets old with a conventional wrench and full length studs.


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## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

Ok, I did some more work on the vrt corrado this weekend...
I took care of the previous issues. That last bolt was a pain, thank god i managed to tighten it down without removing the engine.

So Now, I'm wondering what to do with the EGR system there, there are I believe 2 electrical connections that should go on to the EGR, but the kinetic manifold doesn't have a hole to pipe to the egr from... ? I dont care to much about having it on, will I get engine codes if I don't put it on? what do you guys do with that? (95 OBD1 corrado)

Another issue I ran into, the oil feed line.... In a corrado, do you have to remove the whole front end to mount the adapter and oil feed line to the top of the oil filter housing?? Are there any secrets to doing this without removing the whole front end? Any help is appreciated.

I'll be looking to order all the piping, clamps, hoses and such to do the boost piping. 
Anyone know the cheapest internet site to buy this stuff from? Or is ebay the place?


Thanks for now.

I'll post up some pics this week


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

*EGR system*
On OBD1 if you leave the EGR solenoid valve connected you don't get any codes. You can also replace the solenoid with resistors for the same effect. The temperature sensor can be left unconnected without getting codes but some people report a better idle and better running if the temperature sensor is replaced with a resistor as well. IIRC 1 meg ohm is the middle of the sensors range. OBD1 has very limited diagnostics, and mostly looks that a device is connected, so while you may not get a code you may not run as well as you could with a little extra attention like adding a temperature resistor.

The EGR ports are the same as your oil pan plug, so you can get more of those.

*Oil Feed*
I had my front end off anyway so not sure if it can be done without removing it. Probably recommend you take it off just so you get quick at it. Once you have it down it is ten minutes to get it off and fifteen to put it back. Not sure if you are going intercooled; if you are then you gotta have it off anyway.

A lot of people mention frozenboost.com or CXRacing for piping and such.


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## Love2Spool (Sep 10, 2010)

good luck with your VRT assembly..ill be doing this pretty soon..cant wait


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## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

yup, i've been looking on cxracing and frozenboost for the last while, I guess those are the cheapest places to buy this stuff...

I'm doing air to water intercooling  i don't want a front mount, i like the stock bumper and euro lip very much. So I can fit one of those inline air/water coolers under the car between the front bumper and the engine... i was doing some pondering under the car  And a small 10x10x2 (approx) heat exchanger between the rad and front grill (might need to trim a tiny bit off the rad support to get it in, but I think it'll be a nice and clean install.

I'll be doing 2.5" piping, and I'm only aiming for the ~300hp range, (10psi-12psi)
I think that'll be plenty, especially with a .63a/r (mostly city driving fun, not so much racing except the odd honda that needs to be slapped :laugh: )

Ok so I'll have to buy some resistors then, cause I like not having that egr crap in there anyway, it's much cleaner back there.


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## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

I forgot to ask one more question, what do guys do with the carbon canister and the two lines?


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

I deleted the intake muffler. 
ISV is retained. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5320101839/in/photostream/ 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5320099075/in/photostream/


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Nice clean lookin setup:thumbup:


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Nice clean lookin setup:thumbup:


 Thanks dude.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

You got any times with it, sorry for the tread jack OP.eace:


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

GinsterMan98 said:


> You got any times with it, sorry for the tread jack OP.eace:


 Never planned to track it, but maybe someday.


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## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

Some pics of the uber slow progress
Sorry for the quality, iphone isn't the newest and greatest :thumbup:


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## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

I ran into another problem, the small flex pipe that came with the kinetic downpipe, it's inside diameter is too big for the downpipe (small tube thats welded to the side) and also too big for the wastegate flange... 

I cranked the **** out of the clamps and one of them began stripping - and they're pretty good quality clamps, so I donno what to do with that now. Anyone have this simmilar problem?


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Car looks great bro :thumbup: Keep that turbo install clean!

Get your clamps from cxracing.com(everyone) They are the same clamps NAPA sells down the street for $4-5 a piece!

A good welder should be able to sort out any gaps with ease. I suggest you find a local TIG welder and buy him a case of beer, he'll soon be your best friend


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## BLSport (Dec 24, 2005)

dr_dirtg said:


> I ran into another problem, the small flex pipe that came with the kinetic downpipe, it's inside diameter is too big for the downpipe (small tube thats welded to the side) and also too big for the wastegate flange...
> 
> I cranked the **** out of the clamps and one of them began stripping - and they're pretty good quality clamps, so I donno what to do with that now. Anyone have this simmilar problem?


Here's an old post of mine, describing the fix to another person that had the same issue...



BLSport said:


> If I'm understanding your problem, the ID of the flex-pipe was larger than the OD of the wastegate/downpipe connection tubes at the time you attempted to clamp the flex-pipe in place; is this correct?
> If so, then the fix is relatively inexpensive and simple. You'll need to get yourself a replacement flex-pipe (same type as that provided with the Kinetic kit), as your current one is now crushed and will make what I'm about to describe, impossible.
> Prior to clamping the new flex-pipe to the wastegate/downpipe connection tubes, its ID must be adjusted to snugly match the OD of those tubes. The flex-pipe has an interlocked spiral design, which will allow you wind it up to a larger diameter, or wind it down to a smaller diameter. This can be accomplished by grasping one end of the flex-pipe with one hand, and the other end of the flex-pipe with your other hand, and rotating your hands in opposite directions.
> Once you have adjusted the ID of the flex-pipe to snugly match the OD of the wastegate/downpipe connection tubes, you should be able to achieve a leak-free connection after clamping.


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

The following is the right way to go in my opinion for the Kinetic WG path.

Weld a v-band to the DP WG tube.
This will require trimming the DP WG tube to fit new bellows.
Fit a 1.25" or 1.5" dont remember which x 4" vibrant bellows flex section ($23).
Add v band ends to the flex bellows.
Get a v-band adapter for the WG.
Don't worry about smooth bore on the bellows, the braided internals are fine.


Don't mess with bolt up flanges as the clocking is too precise and will strain the system. The v-band take the rotation out of the picture, plus install and spring changes are a snap.

Please go this way.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Verg has the best solution :thumbup: 

I've recently switched to the mvs to make swapping springs easier and obviously reduce install/removal time

Vband is your friend when it comes to tight areas


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## Love2Spool (Sep 10, 2010)

im just goin to get a custom dp


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## Love2Spool (Sep 10, 2010)

3" dp to a 2.5" catless exhaust with just a muffler with a 2.5" oulet off of the open dumped 38mm tial.:thumbup: not too worried about having a 3" exhaust right now. the setup ill have should flow nicely enough for now. and im not into spending 600+ on a custom 3"


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## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

Ok, So I didn't do much on it the last two weeks, Garage space is a premium these days, plus I work too much...
But I did get to order my air/water cooling setup (frozenboost), and a bunch of 2.5" pipe (cxracing).
I ordered a long flow type cooler and a small heat exchanger with the bosch pump :thumbup:
should be good enough for 300hp.
All my piping is going to be black with black rubber connectors. I'm trying to go for the stockish-cleanish- hiddenish look. Don't want any of that yellow on black or blue with chrome 'in your face crap' LOL.

I need to know what rubber elbow do you guys put onto the throttle body? What angle is it at? 90 or 120?

The way I plan to route my piping is as such:
from turbo(pointing up) 90 to the left(with respect to driver's seat position), then a 135degree angle towards the battery area, then straight down between battery and engine (there is a small hole that will fit a 2.5" pipe), then I will need to use either a U pipe or a 90 if i have enough room for a air/water cooler to be placed between lower rad support and engine (this will be a 3.5" x4" x 14" long flow type cooler, will sit above the bottom of the euro lip so I should be ok since I've not hit the euro lip and my car is lowered. Then from tehre it will go up and thru the hole where the carbon canister is (by the way, what do you guys do with that carbon canister???) and then into the throttle body.
(heat exchanger will be a small one 10x13x2" and will sit infront of the rad on the left side of the grille emblem, there will be very minimal rad support hacking if any).


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Can't wait to see it :thumbup: post pics!

How are you going to paint the pipes? Also, I wouldn't buy the black piping kits incase you need to get anything welded.


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## dr_dirtg (Oct 7, 2003)

I already bought black.... 
I'm going to try to avoid welding, but it's only coated black, can sand that off and weld then repaint black.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

oh it's not a problem. I pieced mine together just fine without needing any welds. I have the cxracing kit too


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

vergessen wir es said:


> The following is the right way to go in my opinion for the Kinetic WG path.
> 
> Weld a v-band to the DP WG tube.
> This will require trimming the DP WG tube to fit new bellows.
> ...


Not to thread jack especially since op is going open dump, but do you have pics of this and is there enough slip with v-bands to allow me to take just the dp, wg, and bellows and other bits to the welder and have it made up, provided he has a close dimension as far as where the wg should end up? I hate taking my car in.


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

'dubber said:


> Not to thread jack especially since op is going open dump, but do you have pics of this and is there enough slip with v-bands to allow me to take just the dp, wg, and bellows and other bits to the welder and have it made up, provided he has a close dimension as far as where the wg should end up? I hate taking my car in.


Sorry no pics. For one I would trim the DP WG tube yourself and take the guesswork out of it for the welder. As far as layout, some V-band flanges are shouldered some are straight thru. If they are shouldered and you trim right the welder just has to seat the flanges all the way and it will all go together. If not shouldered then you might consider having the flex flanges welded on first and then laying out and trimming the DP WG pipe after the flex is welded up. Note: there is some extra length on the ends of the flex section so you can trim those too if you need to reduce the flex length for any reason. Just check your stackup and make sure you don't need to trim the flex too to make it all fit where you want it.

You might think to take the exhaust manifold off the car and work the whole thing on the bench but this has some risk because the DP won't be located by the engine and the exaust system so the WG flex length can be hit or miss that way. Even so it will probably work out since the flex can extend or compress to mate up (to a point).

Lastly, depending on the angle the WG pipe is coming off the DP you may not get a perfectly square set on the lowest flange. Leaving some angle in may not be ideal for flow but might be an acceptable compromise against really torquing out the flex section.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

dr_dirtg said:


> yup, i've been looking on cxracing and frozenboost for the last while, I guess those are the cheapest places to buy this stuff...
> 
> I'm doing air to water intercooling  i don't want a front mount, i like the stock bumper and euro lip very much. So I can fit one of those inline air/water coolers under the car between the front bumper and the engine... i was doing some pondering under the car  And a small 10x10x2 (approx) heat exchanger between the rad and front grill (might need to trim a tiny bit off the rad support to get it in, but I think it'll be a nice and clean install.
> 
> ...


Smart man on the cxracing stuff. If you aren't looking to break records, that stuff will serve you well.

FYI, I have a stock bumper and eurolip on my car w/ a fmic. No AC . AWIC works too though.

Good luck. 10-12psi is the way to go on the street. It's more than enough and the trans should last.


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## cstanley19 (Sep 23, 2006)

I did a frozen boost kit. Worked out well for me, but I upgraded the water pump, water box and fittings. BTW the Bramble is lookin dope. My favorite color. I haven't seen your car before, you should post up more pics in the Corrado forums.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

I'm having trouble installing my manifold, studs are too close the to runners on the bottom portion not allowing me to put the nut on. I cut two studs, one too short I can't get the washer on. From taking my manifold (with turbo) off and on the washers weren't sitting flat up top so when I tightened down a few times the studs starting bowing different directions up top.

Could something be wrong with my manifold? I got it used. What am I doing wrong here?


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## kushdubber (Jun 8, 2010)

the top studs are bending when tighten them? Might be your washers tilting into the holes on the manifold. i noticed this yesterday when I was installing mine, i just went out and bought some bigger washers to fill the gap. hoping that works:beer:


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

Kinetic manifold tweak
If you look at the casting the upper holes are spot faced so the nuts can torque down flat. The lower holes have no secondary machining because the runners would get in the way so the casting is very angled there. I could not deal so I ground the casting around the lower holes parallel with the mounting surface which gives more room for the nut and wrench. Wasn't fun but the nut is flat now. These castings are thick so I wasn't concerned about weakening it. I also torched a wrench to bend it in the middle to give a little more room around the pump drive housing. It's a fair bit of work to grind it down like I did but now it's easy to pull and put back.
Either way you do eventually get the feel for getting that toughest nut on and tightening it.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

kushdubber said:


> the top studs are bending when tighten them? Might be your washers tilting into the holes on the manifold. i noticed this yesterday when I was installing mine, i just went out and bought some bigger washers to fill the gap. hoping that works:beer:


yeah that's what they were doing, where did you get your washers? Did you run into trouble getting the bottom nuts on? Should I be tightening all the nuts slowly, like tighten one a little, then tighten the next one a little etc? It really doesn't even matter because even with the manifold completely loose i can't even get the nut on all of the bottom studs.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

what did you use to grind this down?


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## kushdubber (Jun 8, 2010)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> yeah that's what they were doing, where did you get your washers? Did you run into trouble getting the bottom nuts on? Should I be tightening all the nuts slowly, like tighten one a little, then tighten the next one a little etc? It really doesn't even matter because even with the manifold completely loose i can't even get the nut on all of the bottom studs.


I got some heavy metal washers from local parts store. What you have to do it put a few nuts on the top studs with the mani on, tilt it upwards so there is enough room to put the bottom nuts on. its a bitch, but that was farely easy for me. screwing them in is another pita. but like i read before, rachet style open wrench would be ideal for this.

tighten them one by one on each side until snug, just so the gasket is pressed evenly. 

i kind of said **** it to the bottom washers since they were on nicely before i realized i need washers. but we will see what happens


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

i called kinetic about it they said they never ran into any problems like how I described, that there was no tips and tricks to installing this. I did this at first, just had the top nuts threaded in a few so i could angle it... I was able to get one of the nuts on the stud this way but wasn't for another. I wound up cutting the far drivers side, and the middle passenger-side nut. I'll give it another go but my studs are bent up now from tightening down with the washers not being seated flat up top, removing and tightening the manifold down only to come down to two nuts not fitting cuz of the damn studs being too close. 

one suggestion is that maybe my studs were not in all the way? they appeared to be all in right, no threads that go into the head were showing. 

having the manifold rest on the edge of the studs just so where the bottom of the studs are just peaking out must be my only option i havn't tried to get the nuts on the studs before the studs get to close to the runner when its up against the head.

heres a few pics:















































above the last pic, the engine hanger is used or no?


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

kinda double posting here, but just wanted to stay up on both.

i just didn't know if using the engine lift bracket was supposed to be there or no with the kit, thought maybe that could be hanging me up if your not supposed to use it.










Heres what happened to the studs after installing and removing the manifold with turbo 4-5 times banging my head :banghead: trying to figure out why i cant get the nut on the bottom studs. I did try with the nuts all loose but still nothing. What i didn't try was backing it all the way out to where it just barely pokes out, i'm banking on that. I'm probably going to give it another go with out removing and replacing the studs one more time, if it works then :thumbup: if not then ill get studs from GAP.

So tonight I took the front end off (not completely) broke one of the tabs on my abt lights (of course) I removed the oil filter housing to put in the T. I'm glad I did because it would have been a PITA how tight it was to get the sensor into the T tight. I didn't use any teflon on the sensor going into the T because it didn't require any going into the filter housing, and seemed pretty tight to get it all the way in, had to use two vice grips to remove the sensor that came with the T (the p/o of the kit used the black sensor not the blue sensor suggested by the kit so i went with blue) I put teflon tape on the rest of the stuff though T into filter housing and side elbow for the T that runs to the oil feed line right angle elbow)

here are some pics, i'm glad this went smoother than the mani install. :laugh: hopefully it doesn't leak oil.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

kushdubber said:


> I got some heavy metal washers from local parts store. What you have to do it put a few nuts on the top studs with the mani on, tilt it upwards so there is enough room to put the bottom nuts on. its a bitch, but that was farely easy for me. screwing them in is another pita. but like i read before, rachet style open wrench would be ideal for this.
> 
> tighten them one by one on each side until snug, just so the gasket is pressed evenly.
> 
> i kind of said **** it to the bottom washers since they were on nicely before i realized i need washers. but we will see what happens


i think i tried doing this... still not enough room, but i think i had all the studs on the top just threaded maybe 1 or 2 rotations. I'll have to attempt it again tomorrow. Above is my results getting the T into the oil filter housing and routed to the turbo, hopefully this is routed correctly.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)




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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

i'm assuming this is a no go


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

how does the vac lines run for this thing? I need two vac T's? It didn't come with a check valve, p/o told me its not needed? Will it be ok if I don't run one?:wave:


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## kushdubber (Jun 8, 2010)

CorradoFuhrer said:


> how does the vac lines run for this thing? I need two vac T's? It didn't come with a check valve, p/o told me its not needed? Will it be ok if I don't run one?:wave:


if your compressor has an outlet for boost line you hook it up to your wg


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