# Audi RS 3 Sedan



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

So this photo got dropped on the web. Some analyzing the motor say that's a 2.5 TFSI under the hood. I was at Audi headquarters when I found it and showed it to a few people and a few who would know said it's an RS 3. Fingers crossed they're right.

Post on our blog is HERE: http://fourtitude.com/news/audi-rum...ed-believed-audi-rs-3-sedan-spied-neckarsulm/


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## rabbitgtibbar (Apr 29, 2002)

:squee:


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## gtitx1 (Oct 6, 2014)

very nice. If this is recent, I cannot imagine them still testing S3's like that in any way, most likely the RS3.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

What's on the wheels


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## rabbitgtibbar (Apr 29, 2002)

Revolver1966 said:


> What's on the wheels



Tires.


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## Phanuel (Sep 4, 2014)

Revolver1966 said:


> What's on the wheels


Yeah, those are odd. And they're on both cars, on all the wheels we can see.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

They must be data gathering equip


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

they are computer things that can gather data from the wheels (speed, rotation, etc..) while the car is driving.

looking close at whats under the hood, that silver area looks a lot like the engine cover thats on the S3 and not like a 5cyl cover. plus if its a test vehicle i think they wouldnt put on an engine cover.


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## m3cosmos (Apr 28, 2011)

If they are making a sedan they are probably bring it to our shores. We should all thank BMW for making the M2. 

On the flip side if we get the hatch we will probably see the M1...I mean BMW 1M.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

ProjectA3 said:


> they are computer things that can gather data from the wheels (speed, rotation, etc..) while the car is driving.



That can be measured through the ABS sensors..... My guess is vibration / wheel bearing temps......


Looks good, def won't be a current S3 with those sensors, or S3 owners better worry lol.....


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## Dave DC (Oct 20, 2014)

oh god yes... look at those brakes peeking out!


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## Maddog78 (Jun 21, 2014)

Nice! I would prefer the hatch but if it doesn't come I would certainly jump on this instead.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Those sensors are likely measuring rotation. I was told by Hackenberg that the RS 3 will adopt the Haldex setup of the TT RS, which will be based on what the TTS has but with much more aggressive torque to the rear for even more throttle-on-oversteer. I suspect this test setup is using those sensors to log the torque delivery at the wheel, but that IS a guess.

On the engine, some European users commented on our Facebook page that the engine under the hood is confirmed 2.5 TFSI. While the engine cover doesn't look like a 2.5 TFSI, I don't think it looks like 2.0 TFSI either so we'll see. My contact at AoA seemed pretty sure of him/herself that it was RS 3 thought.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

If that is an RS3 (what else could it be?), then its definitely a 5 cyl in there. Its already been confirmed. 

I'm curious about the upgraded haldex compared to a regular haldex 5, George do you know anything more about this? A couple of articles even mentioned a revised rear diff, will he RS3 have a torque vectoring rear diff?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

DaLeadBull said:


> If that is an RS3 (what else could it be?), then its definitely a 5 cyl in there. Its already been confirmed.
> 
> I'm curious about the upgraded haldex compared to a regular haldex 5, George do you know anything more about this? A couple of articles even mentioned a revised rear diff, will he RS3 have a torque vectoring rear diff?


So all Mk3 TT versions use a Haldex 5 (as does MQB A3/S3) but Audi describes it as moved to the back of the chassis. I'll see if I can dig up some cutaways to illustrate. I'm sure they're out there. The TT runs down the road at 50:50 and uses more aggressive use of torque to rear and inner ABS braking to overdrive the outer rear wheel and torque vector much like the S4 with Sport Differential.

The beauty here is that, like Sport Diff, this can be a stability tool or also a tool for throttle on oversteer... and that this is all a matter of programming. The TT is least aggressive and the TTS more aggressive. Hackenberg told me directly at the TT launch that this would "eventually come" to A3/S3 (so maybe facelift, he didn't really say), that TT RS would be even more rear biased and that RS 3 "will have" this (TT RS) setup.

That's all I know for now. I didn't get access to Hackenberg in Paris, so will see if I can ask some questions in LA as I suspect he'll be there.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Looking at these (drivetrain schematics of Mk3 TT and A3 sedan) they look identical. If that's the case, then I suspect it is a matter of software. There may be additional control units that are involved. I'm still unclear how extensive it is, or if they share ABS hardware, but they both share Haldex 5 diffs according to the North American TT product planner. If the ABS is same and the placement is same, you'd think you'd be able to flash the torque delivery programming of say a TT RS or RS 3 to an A3 or S3.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Thanks for the insight George.

I'm pretty sure the regular and S models will have the same exact hardware. The main difference if any being software programming. What I'm wondering is if there will be any hardware changes in the RS3 or the TT RS, for example in the form of a sport rear diff or will it be mainly software changes?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Hackenberg told me the difference between TT, TTS and TT RS is simply programming.

There is no "Rear Sport Differential" for transverse cars. They have very effectively mimicked and maybe even improved upon it with the TTS, and he definitely said TT RS will be even more aggressive AND that RS 3 will also be like that.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

This should slide nicely to replace my S4, the S3 wasn't a big enough deal maker, but this will break that thought quickly


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Hackenberg told me the difference between TT, TTS and TT RS is simply programming.
> 
> There is no "Rear Sport Differential" for transverse cars. They have very effectively mimicked and maybe even improved upon it with the TTS, and he definitely said TT RS will be even more aggressive AND that RS 3 will also be like that.


Awesome news. Of course, there's still a question about whether it's easy to access the programming without removing/disassembling the control unit. If it is, I hope to see haldex reflashes in the future.  Otherwise, we'll at least get aftermarket controllers again. Getting the same kind of hoonish fun the S4 w/ sport diff gets, in an S3, seems like a great deal to me.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Hackenberg told me the difference between TT, TTS and TT RS is simply programming.
> 
> There is no "Rear Sport Differential" for transverse cars. They have very effectively mimicked and maybe even improved upon it with the TTS, and he definitely said TT RS will be even more aggressive AND that RS 3 will also be like that.


Thanks George, yea I realize that there is no sport diff for transverse cars. I thought maybe they did something like SAAB did with the 9-3 where they had the Haldex with a eLSD. Top Gear also mentioned a revised rear differential which I why I thought maybe there were some hardware changes in store for the RS3.

Programming differences is a welcome change though because I don't think they even did that in the past.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

DaLeadBull said:


> Thanks George, yea I realize that there is no sport diff for transverse cars. I thought maybe they did something like SAAB did with the 9-3 where they had the Haldex with a eLSD. Top Gear also mentioned a revised rear differential which I why I thought maybe there were some hardware changes in store for the RS3.
> 
> Programming differences is a welcome change though because I don't think they even did that in the past.


E LSD is coming on GTI too. I wish they'd offer that for the A3 TDI.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> E LSD is coming on GTI too. I wish they'd offer that for the A3 TDI.


Exactly, so I wonder if the TT RS or RS3 would come with a similar LSD at the rear. Can you ask Hackenberg or whoever else at Audi that you might meet?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

DaLeadBull said:


> Exactly, so I wonder if the TT RS or RS3 would come with a similar LSD at the rear. Can you ask Hackenberg or whoever else at Audi that you might meet?


From a hardware standpoint, I believe all MQB Haldex cars are the same. It seems as if software is the main difference, but will confirm next time I see them.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> From a hardware standpoint, I believe all MQB Haldex cars are the same. It seems as if software is the main difference, but will confirm next time I see them.


Thanks!

I doubt there are any hardware changes but it would be nice to have confirmation. Some of the recent articles have talked about the lack of understeer and even the possibility of oversteer, if they are doing this with just software changes then that's pretty impressive. Also please let him know that there is plenty of interest in the US!


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## Vrickle (Dec 2, 2009)

DaLeadBull said:


> Thanks!
> 
> ... Also please let him know that there is plenty of interest in the US!


Seconded!
If an RS3 sedan shows up on US shores I will trade in my 09 A3 _and_ my Miata to order one!


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

DaLeadBull said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I doubt there are any hardware changes but it would be nice to have confirmation. Some of the recent articles have talked about the lack of understeer and even the possibility of oversteer, if they are doing this with just software changes then that's pretty impressive. Also please let him know that there is plenty of interest in the US!


I've driven the Mk3 TT and Mk3 TTS back to back. It is clear and noticeable how much more aggressive the system is in the TTS. Hackenberg says TT RS (and RS 3) will be even more aggressive than TTS.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

I'm interested in how/if they are getting more than 50% torque to the rear, maybe slipping the Haldex clutches to effectively multiply torque (like a torque converter) ? Or are they just using the LSD to kick the rear out?


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## Velocipedio_Redux (Jul 26, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> So all Mk3 TT versions use a Haldex 5 (as does MQB A3/S3) but Audi describes it as moved to the back of the chassis. I'll see if I can dig up some cutaways to illustrate. I'm sure they're out there. The TT runs down the road at 50:50 and uses more aggressive use of torque to rear and inner ABS braking to overdrive the outer rear wheel and torque vector much like the S4 with Sport Differential.
> 
> The beauty here is that, like Sport Diff, this can be a stability tool or also a tool for throttle on oversteer... and that this is all a matter of programming. The TT is least aggressive and the TTS more aggressive. Hackenberg told me directly at the TT launch that this would "eventually come" to A3/S3 (so maybe facelift, he didn't really say), that TT RS would be even more rear biased and that RS 3 "will have" this (TT RS) setup.
> 
> That's all I know for now. I didn't get access to Hackenberg in Paris, so will see if I can ask some questions in LA as I suspect he'll be there.


Can you touch on how this system is different from the MK2 TTS/RS/facelift S3 8P? Those cars had Haldex 4, which was also 50/50 on takeoff/acceleration (something that, irritatingly, no journo seemed to be able to recognize) and wound back the drive to the rear for cruising or parking. What is different about the torque distribution levels on Gen 5 in the new cars? The MK2 TTRS/S etc. also had model-specific programming (so I assume more aggressive than the std. models).

Other than the new EDL system with tq. vectoring, it seems the Haldex systems perform more or less the same?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Velocipedio_Redux said:


> Can you touch on how this system is different from the MK2 TTS/RS/facelift S3 8P? Those cars had Haldex 4, which was also 50/50 on takeoff/acceleration (something that, irritatingly, no journo seemed to be able to recognize) and wound back the drive to the rear for cruising or parking. What is different about the torque distribution levels on Gen 5 in the new cars? The MK2 TTRS/S etc. also had model-specific programming (so I assume more aggressive than the std. models).
> 
> Other than the new EDL system with tq. vectoring, it seems the Haldex systems perform more or less the same?


There are likely hardware differences and I'm guessing the clutches are more robust (a guess, but keep reading), because cars like the TT and TTS run full-time all-wheel drive like a Torsen car. They only run FWD when in an efficiency mode or if for some reason that would offer the most grip like the rear wheels being on ice. They are programmed to more aggressively send torque to the rear as Haldex in the case of these cars is still the "center differential" controlling front-to-rear torque and not right to left. I believe the right-to-left is done with the ABS system.


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## Velocipedio_Redux (Jul 26, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> There are likely hardware differences and I'm guessing the clutches are more robust (a guess, but keep reading), because cars like the TT and TTS run full-time all-wheel drive like a Torsen car. They only run FWD when in an efficiency mode or if for some reason that would offer the most grip like the rear wheels being on ice. They are programmed to more aggressively send torque to the rear as Haldex in the case of these cars is still the "center differential" controlling front-to-rear torque and not right to left. I believe the right-to-left is done with the ABS system.


Thanks. Just to clarify (a bit confused still): you are saying that the MK5 TTS with Gen 5 does not act like the MK II TTS with Gen 4 (torque vectoring aside)? 

In the SSP for Gen 4 (granted it was the Tiguan SSP), it clearly shows that the system locks the clutch pack (50/50) on take off and moderate-hard acceleration, among other situations. It seems as though it runs in 50/50 (or close) quite often and winds down the drive as programmed/needed. So is Gen 5 really that different aside from EDL? 

I had a facelift model S3 here in Germany with Haldex 4, and my rear tires consistently wore about 1-2 mm more than the fronts across the tread (2 sets of winter and summer tires); the car definitely seemed to distribute tq similarly to Torsen cars I have had.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> There are likely hardware differences and I'm guessing the clutches are more robust (a guess, but keep reading), because cars like the TT and TTS run full-time all-wheel drive like a Torsen car. They only run FWD when in an efficiency mode or if for some reason that would offer the most grip like the rear wheels being on ice. They are programmed to more aggressively send torque to the rear as Haldex in the case of these cars is still the "center differential" controlling front-to-rear torque and not right to left. I believe the right-to-left is done with the ABS system.





Velocipedio_Redux said:


> Thanks. Just to clarify (a bit confused still): you are saying that the MK5 TTS with Gen 5 does not act like the MK II TTS with Gen 4 (torque vectoring aside)?
> 
> In the SSP for Gen 4 (granted it was the Tiguan SSP), it clearly shows that the system locks the clutch pack (50/50) on take off and moderate-hard acceleration, among other situations. It seems as though it runs in 50/50 (or close) quite often and winds down the drive as programmed/needed. So is Gen 5 really that different aside from EDL?
> 
> I had a facelift model S3 here in Germany with Haldex 4, and my rear tires consistently wore about 1-2 mm more than the fronts across the tread (2 sets of winter and summer tires); the car definitely seemed to distribute tq similarly to Torsen cars I have had.


They are still pulling the rear off of the front diff, rather than before the front with a center diff, so it cannot have >50% torque unless the front loses traction. One thing that interests me is if the rear could be overdriven by virtue of some reduction between the center ds and rear wheels. If we assume that the center DS is 1:1 with the front ring gear, there is still the opportunity to overdrive the rear axle if it is not 1:1. The wet clutch could be tuned to provide enough slip for comfort during casual driving; a 1.2:1 rear ratio could allow for the equivalent of a 60:40 split with the rear clutch locked. I think.


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## Velocipedio_Redux (Jul 26, 2013)

Mcstiff said:


> They are still pulling the rear off of the front diff, rather than before the front with a center diff, so it cannot have >50% torque unless the front loses traction. One thing that interests me is if the rear could be overdriven by virtue of some reduction between the center diff and rear wheels. If we assume that the center DS is 1:1 with the front ring gear, there is still the opportunity to overdrive the rear axle if it is not 1:1. The wet clutch could be tuned to provide enough slip for comfort during casual driving; a 1.2:1 rear ratio could allow for the equivalent of a 60:40 split with the rear clutch locked. I think.


I'd love to see a technical(ish) article here on the Gen 4 and 5 systems. I don't think either system really needs a rear bias to do it's job, particularly with the new torque vectoring, but would really like to know how they are programmed and if Gen 5 has any actual hardware changes to accomplish the reported rear overdrive. The German Audi site claims the new systems are "heckbetont" which means rear-biased, but the basic hardware looks the same.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Velocipedio_Redux said:


> I had a facelift model S3 here in Germany with Haldex 4, and my rear tires consistently wore about 1-2 mm more than the fronts across the tread (2 sets of winter and summer tires); the car definitely seemed to distribute tq similarly to Torsen cars I have had.


I had some 'fridge thoughts' about this.. and basically, that's the same as why your front brakes wear faster, despite all 4 wheels contributing to your braking: Weight transfer.

If the goal is to keep the two axles moving at as close to the same speed as possible (especially with no steering angle), haldex is going to engage the rears any time the fronts have less traction, right?

Secondly, if while the haldex clutch is fully engaged, the front and rear axles MUST turn at the same speed, in order for the fronts to spin, the rears have to be exceeding their grip too. So, if you're accelerating and the fronts are at the limit of their traction due to weight transfer, as long as the haldex clutch is engaged, the torque that would be dissipated to spin the fronts has to be used to try to spin the rears too, leading to a lot more torque going through the rear than the 50/50 'nominal' split would suggest. It might even be more appropriate to list the haldex split with the clutch fully engaged as 100/100, since it no longer acts as a _differential_ when the clutch is fully engaged.

Sound right to the technical folks here?


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

araemo said:


> I had some 'fridge thoughts' about this.. and basically, that's the same as why your front brakes wear faster, despite all 4 wheels contributing to your braking: Weight transfer.
> 
> If the goal is to keep the two axles moving at as close to the same speed as possible (especially with no steering angle), haldex is going to engage the rears any time the fronts have less traction, right?
> 
> ...


http://www.awdwiki.com/en/torque+split+ratio/



> Now let's take a vehicle with automatic all wheel drive systems as an example (assume the vehicle is front wheel drive under normal conditions). When in front wheel drive mode, the torque transfer is near 100/0 – most of the power goes to the front wheels. When front wheels slip, the transfer clutch attaches the rear axle. At full lock, torque split becomes 50/50. Now, if front wheels lose traction completely (ice, rollers, or raised in the air), 0% torque goes to the front wheels, 100% of torque goes to the rear wheels, but the ratio stays 50/50. Understand the two things: torque split ratio can vary from 100/0 to 50/50. But torque apportion can vary from 100/0 to 0/100.*


Ideally we'd like to have more torque to the rear without the front wheels loosing traction.

More on torque transfer from Dr. Bieber, just pretend the diff is in the center not the end:

Open VS Locked:





Torsen:


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Mcstiff said:


> Ideally we'd like to have more torque to the rear without the front wheels loosing traction.


I understand that is _better_, but I think the haldex system is better than it gets credit for, based on my research.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

araemo said:


> I understand that is _better_, but I think the haldex system is better than it gets credit for, based on my research.


I don't think anyone is saying it's bad, after all gen 1 Quattro was either an open or locked center diff.


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## Velocipedio_Redux (Jul 26, 2013)

araemo said:


> I had some 'fridge thoughts' about this.. and basically, that's the same as why your front brakes wear faster, despite all 4 wheels contributing to your braking: Weight transfer.
> 
> If the goal is to keep the two axles moving at as close to the same speed as possible (especially with no steering angle), haldex is going to engage the rears any time the fronts have less traction, right?
> 
> ...


You have it right, more or less. 

When accelerating, and when cornering there is always slip in the front diff -- not necessarily enough to spin the wheels, but enough to cause a difference in shaft speeds F/R. This means that on acceleration, you likely have about 65-70ish % of torque on the rear, to match the dynamic weight condition, and over time, more rear tire wear. My point was that the fronts should wear faster due to the fact that they steer and provide propulsion, plus they bear the brunt of the weight on braking. That the rears wear faster says a lot about how much torque is on the rear axle with the Gen 4 and 5 systems in real-world conditions.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

Mcstiff said:


> They are still pulling the rear off of the front diff, rather than before the front with a center diff, so it cannot have >50% torque unless the front loses traction. * One thing that interests me is if the rear could be overdriven by virtue of some reduction between the center ds and rear wheels. If we assume that the center DS is 1:1 with the front ring gear, there is still the opportunity to overdrive the rear axle if it is not 1:1. The wet clutch could be tuned to provide enough slip for comfort during casual driving; a 1.2:1 rear ratio could allow for the equivalent of a 60:40 split with the rear clutch locked. I think.*


http://www.automobilemag.com/featur...-rs-gets-the-worlds-most-advanced-awd-system/



> “The system for the Focus RS has additional torque capacity and has a gear ratio offset,” he said. The rear has a taller gear ratio than the front, which allows overspeeding the rear wheels, which, in turn, allows “true torque vectoring,” Kuczera said.


HA! I should have stuck with engineering!


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## s3u4ic (Sep 27, 2014)

Hate to say it, but why does everyone think that this is an RS when the badge on the grill is an S3 badge?


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

s3u4ic said:


> Hate to say it, but why does everyone think that this is an RS when the badge on the grill is an S3 badge?


Because the S3 was already out so what would they be testing.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

s3u4ic said:


> Hate to say it, but why does everyone think that this is an RS when the badge on the grill is an S3 badge?



Because you never show your hand of cards. When you do R&D and testing you want it to be as covert as possible. Think about all the manufacturing testing their new Halo cars at the Ring and what happens when they crash. You don't want your pride and joy to be on the front page news of every automotive news outlet with your car smashed to pieces in the wall. I know the RS3 isn't some Halo car for Audi but you get the gist. 

On a side note I can not for the life of me believe how there isn't more speculation and rumor about this car. I know the RS3 hatch is out in Europe and this will basically be what we get in sedan form. I just don't know how their aren't more spy shots of the complete car. Every car of recent has always been exposed before its big debut.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

-LoneStar- said:


> Because you never show your hand of cards. When you do R&D and testing you want it to be as covert as possible. Think about all the manufacturing testing their new Halo cars at the Ring and what happens when they crash. You don't want your pride and joy to be on the front page news of every automotive news outlet with your car smashed to pieces in the wall. I know the RS3 isn't some Halo car for Audi but you get the gist.
> 
> On a side note I can not for the life of me believe how there isn't more speculation and rumor about this car. I know the RS3 hatch is out in Europe and this will basically be what we get in sedan form. I just don't know how their aren't more spy shots of the complete car. Every car of recent has always been exposed before its big debut.


My guess is that the RS3 won't be available until the facelift happens for the 8V, so that's why it is kept as a secret more than usual.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

VWNCC said:


> My guess is that the RS3 won't be available until the facelift happens for the 8V, so that's why it is kept as a secret more than usual.


I never thought about that but that makes complete sense. Do you know when the refresh will happen across the entire A3/S3 line? 2017-2018? I guess 2018 would make more sense since the 17's will be out in what, less then 8 months? Still sucks to wait that long though!


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

-LoneStar- said:


> I never thought about that but that makes complete sense. Do you know when the refresh will happen across the entire A3/S3 line? 2017-2018? I guess 2018 would make more sense since the 17's will be out in what, less then 8 months? Still sucks to wait that long though!


Yeah, your guess is probably accurate. I expect the current A3/S3 to be available for roughly 4 years in NA (2015 2016 2017 and 2018).


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## rhoyle (Sep 17, 2015)

Mcstiff said:


> Because the S3 was already out so what would they be testing.


Not to mention that it's the perfect camouflage to badge it as an S3.


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## RS4pilot (Apr 19, 2000)

*rs4pilot*



-LoneStar- said:


> I can not for the life of me believe how there isn't more speculation and rumor about this car. I know the RS3 hatch is out in Europe and this will basically be what we get in sedan form. I just don't know how their aren't more spy shots of the complete car. Every car of recent has always been exposed before its big debut.


Your not the only one thinking the same thing. Mercedes has the AMG CLA 45, Early next year the Ford Focus RS, Next fall the BMW M2. You would think VW/Audi would be in a rush to get some of this market share, evidently not. Last April every auto journalist was releasing articles stating the that the RS3 was coming, most stated by early next year. My guess we won't see it for at least another 2 years. :thumbdown:


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

With these emissions scandals cutting VAG (VW, Audi, Porsche) deeper with more findings I'm not holding my breath on anything at this point.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

gamegenie said:


> With these emissions scandals cutting VAG (VW, Audi, Porsche) deeper with more findings I'm not holding my breath on anything at this point.


They need some revenue to cover those bills.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

gamegenie said:


> With these emissions scandals cutting VAG (VW, Audi, Porsche) deeper with more findings I'm not holding my breath on anything at this point.


That's my suspicion as well. They might cut development programs to save cost especially on niche models that don't generate a lot of revenue.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

RS4pilot said:


> Your not the only one thinking the same thing. Mercedes has the AMG CLA 45, Early next year the Ford Focus RS, Next fall the BMW M2. You would think VW/Audi would be in a rush to get some of this market share, evidently not. Last April every auto journalist was releasing articles stating the that the RS3 was coming, most stated by early next year. My guess we won't see it for at least another 2 years. :thumbdown:


They might be waiting because the market will be oversaturated with these type of niche vehicles. I know it sounds silly but it might be better to be late to the game and be the new kid on the block while the specialness of the others cools down. 



VWNCC said:


> That's my suspicion as well. They might cut development programs to save cost especially on niche models that don't generate a lot of revenue.


I understand cutting development on early stage projects but this one has to be almost all complete. I mean they are literally going from a hatchback to a sedan. I guess there might be some crash standards and safety items that have to get certified for the US but I'm thinking that's about it. I remember when the previous generation Cadillac CTS 09-14 released the wagon version they only had to sell like 24 of them to make up the retooling cost that went into designing and building it.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

-LoneStar- said:


> I understand cutting development on early stage projects but this one has to be almost all complete. I mean they are literally going from a hatchback to a sedan. I guess there might be some crash standards and safety items that have to get certified for the US but I'm thinking that's about it. I remember when the previous generation Cadillac CTS 09-14 released the wagon version they only had to sell like 24 of them to make up the retooling cost that went into designing and building it.



It depends... if they were planning to launch the RS3 sedan after facelift, then it could be that they will cut the facelifted RS3 altogether, leaving just the current RS3 sportback. That said, I agree with you that they most likely won't cut development programs so late into the game.


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## s3u4ic (Sep 27, 2014)

Mcstiff said:


> Because the S3 was already out so what would they be testing.


There's no date on the photo, could be 2016 testing.. sorry don't buy it.


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## Hawk (May 7, 2010)

Here's hoping for an RS3.


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## Baylorguy (Aug 18, 2012)

Not that this matters (we all know to take things with a grain of salt from a dealership) but a local sales guy that I have been emailing me told me a regional rep visited this past week and said the RS3 is confirmed for 2016. He also said the go forward plan is for Audi to have an RS model in every line here in the US.

The thing I find interesting is that multiple people have posted hearing the same thing regarding the RS3 for 2016... so if multiple high level managers have the same information... that would be a pretty bad blunder to have them all be wrong. But... I am sure it has happened before 

Anyway, I am cautiously optomistic. Right now it is between the CLA45 AMG and the M2, but if the RS3 does come, 99.9% sure I would opt for it instead.


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## Flying Tomatoes (Nov 29, 2012)

I feel bad for anyone that's been holding off on their car purchase for this...


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## Baylorguy (Aug 18, 2012)

Flying Tomatoes said:


> I feel bad for anyone that's been holding off on their car purchase for this...


I think I have a fairly simple answer... because it is worth the wait. So far there is more reason to believe this is happening versus not. It is simply a question of when.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/audi/clubsport-quattro-concept-4dr-s-tronic/first-drive

Just here to stir the pot opcorn:


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## TheMethLab (Jul 6, 2015)

RS3 will be here in 2016. Fact. I will have one. Fact.


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

If VAG wasn't on the brink of destruction right now, I could believe in this. But I'm not holding my breath. 

Besides, I would be disappointed anyones because I doubt the RS3 sedan would maintain the cool things the A3 Clubsport Concept Quattro had.


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## Flying Tomatoes (Nov 29, 2012)

Baylorguy said:


> I think I have a fairly simple answer... because it is worth the wait. So far there is more reason to believe this is happening versus not. It is simply a question of when.





TheMethLab said:


> RS3 will be here in 2016. Fact. I will have one. Fact.


Quoted so you can't change your post later 



gamegenie said:


> If VAG wasn't on the brink of destruction right now, I could believe in this. But I'm not holding my breath.
> 
> Besides, I would be disappointed anyones because I doubt the RS3 sedan would maintain the cool things the A3 Clubsport Concept Quattro had.


Agree on all counts.


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## 2LMK1 (Aug 22, 2005)

Just got this email from my dealership today (in Vancouver, BC) regarding the RS3 Sedan:

"Hi Mike... Nice to hear from you. It will available in June 2017. We're getting 4 of them so let me know next year if you want one. Right now only S3."

Interesting, and very very temping


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

2LMK1 said:


> Just got this email from my dealership today (in Vancouver, BC) regarding the RS3 Sedan:
> 
> "Hi Mike... Nice to hear from you. It will available in June 2017. We're getting 4 of them so let me know next year if you want one. Right now only S3."
> 
> Interesting, and very very temping


June 2017 or June 2016?


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## India Whiskey Charlie (Feb 15, 2006)

2LMK1 said:


> Just got this email from my dealership today (in Vancouver, BC) regarding the RS3 Sedan:
> 
> "Hi Mike... Nice to hear from you. It will available in June 2017. We're getting 4 of them so let me know next year if you want one. Right now only S3."
> 
> Interesting, and very very temping


That is not likely at all. Dealer allocations are not known years in advance and this guy is just trying to get your deposit.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

2LMK1 said:


> Just got this email from my dealership today (in Vancouver, BC) regarding the RS3 Sedan:
> 
> "Hi Mike... Nice to hear from you. It will available in June 2017. We're getting 4 of them so let me know next year if you want one. Right now only S3."
> 
> Interesting, and very very temping


If, and that's a big if, that is true then it will probably be the mid cycle refresh. This must be why its taking awhile for it to come out. They don't want to release the old body style just to have the next year have the new body style. They would have had to release the 2016 RS3 by now so it wouldn't make sense for the 2017 to have a one year run before the 2018 came out. Sounds like the RS3 will start life as a 2018 model. 



India Whiskey Charlie said:


> That is not likely at all. Dealer allocations are not known years in advance and this guy is just trying to get your deposit.


While I agree to some extent with you it is known that dealers that push out the most S and RS models get first crack at new models and get higher allocations of it. Not sure if the dealer in question is one of those or not. I do agree though I've seen countless dealers pull the deposit BS stunt before.


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

-LoneStar- said:


> If, and that's a big if, that is true then it will probably be the mid cycle refresh. This must be why its taking awhile for it to come out. They don't want to release the old body style just to have the next year have the new body style. They would have had to release the 2016 RS3 by now so it wouldn't make sense for the 2017 to have a one year run before the 2018 came out. Sounds like the RS3 will start life as a 2018 model.


I have been thinking about this, too. I completely agree: the RS3 sedan will most probably appear with facelift.


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## Onequick4door (Sep 13, 2014)

-LoneStar- said:


> If, and that's a big if, that is true then it will probably be the mid cycle refresh. This must be why its taking awhile for it to come out. They don't want to release the old body style just to have the next year have the new body style. They would have had to release the 2016 RS3 by now so it wouldn't make sense for the 2017 to have a one year run before the 2018 came out. Sounds like the RS3 will start life as a 2018 model.
> 
> 
> There is someone I met that works for audi in the NA HQ and stated the exact same thing. It wouldn't come out till mid cycle released fall of 2017 as a 2018. He has an S3 and was very close to the happenings of the 3 model range. This was from this past summer. I still contend, that with the VAG legal issues, we may never see it. They will be in a major cost cutting mode for a long time. Hope I'm wrong. I want an RS as well.


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## Baylorguy (Aug 18, 2012)

I am willing to buy into the possibility of a wait for mid cycle refresh... but the financial doom and gloom perspective just doesn't make sense to me. Why bother bringing the S8 plus to America? What about the RS7 performance? To me the evidence is still pointing to Audi ramping up and offering more performance models than ever before... which would naturally lead to an RS3.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

I swear, someone could fart and this forum would say its sounded like a confirmation the RS3 was coming next year in a hatchback and the S3 was being rereleased as manual only with homelink from the factory and "real" awd. 

I look forward to 2020 when the fart smell fades and there are actually real RS3's that people can post pictures of from their driveway.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

We'll get RS 3 sedan at facelift. Bank on it. The facelift cars will also have the Audi virtual cockpit.


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> We'll get RS 3 sedan at facelift. Bank on it. The facelift cars will also have the Audi virtual cockpit.


Soooo, it's safe to assume then, the MK III TT-RS will be released in the US at least a year before the RS3, with at least 33 more horsepower than the RS3?


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

CbutterK said:


> Soooo, it's safe to assume then, the MK III TT-RS will be released in the US at least a year before the RS3, with at least 33 more horsepower than the RS3?


Yeah, but it'll cost more and only be a 2+2.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> We'll get RS 3 sedan at facelift. Bank on it. The facelift cars will also have the Audi virtual cockpit.


Hopefully it is solidly competitive! I'll be very tempted, love the digital cockpit in my XC90. The only downside is I want a RS2 in 2020 :biggrinsanta:


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Anybody else put a deposit down? I threw my dealer $500 so I get the first one if the car does actually make it here.


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## P-40 (Mar 9, 2013)

BEM10001 said:


> Anybody else put a deposit down? I threw my dealer $500 so I get the first one if the car does actually make it here.


I had 2k down and then went back and got the S3. It's gonna be a while for the RS3 and by the time it comes here, I will have enjoyed the S3 for a year and a half, maybe more.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

P-40 said:


> I had 2k down and then went back and got the S3. It's gonna be a while for the RS3 and by the time it comes here, I will have enjoyed the S3 for a year and a half, maybe more.


Yeah, I still have 16 months left on my m235 lease so hoping the timing works out ok!


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

I would never put down a deposit for one at this stage. I mean it hasn't even been "officially" confirmed. Is it most likely coming....yes but its not a done deal. Also I think its silly to give a deposit for a car that's over a year and half away. That's best case too. If its released with the mid cycle facelift for 2018 it will hit the streets the earliest in July 2017. They may sit out one year and release it as a 2019 who knows. 

Also I would be carful what dealership you give your deposit too. Not sure how the initial allocation of cars will work but most likely it will go to the dealerships that have a track record of selling the most S and RS models in the past. So even though you put down a deposit to the dealership that dealership may not even be able to get one when they first start hitting the streets. 

Also if someone actually knows something please step up. I don't know anything but my opinion on this matter is from following other specialty cars and this is how it most likely plays out.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

I've done this before, worst case you get your money back. No harm no foul. Yes I could arguably invest the money until the timing is closer but we're talking $500 here, not going to move the needle. I am actually really hoping it doesn't arrive before the summer of 2017, would work out perfectly with my current car. 

I have gotten cars from this particular dealer for the past 20 years and my father delivered the owner's children, so I am not too worried. There are some shady places out there but for the most part the places I deal with around Philly for Audi, BMW, etc. are all pretty straight shooters.


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

When should we expect the facelifted A3/S3 to arrive Stateside?


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

Ryegor said:


> When should we expect the facelifted A3/S3 to arrive Stateside?




http://www.quattroworld.com/future-models/2017-audi-a3-spied-cold-weather-testing/

Looks like the facelift may come for the 2017 model. Not sure if they will bring the RS3 at the same time or wait to release it as a 2018


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

-LoneStar- said:


> http://www.quattroworld.com/future-models/2017-audi-a3-spied-cold-weather-testing/
> 
> Looks like the facelift may come for the 2017 model. Not sure if they will bring the RS3 at the same time or wait to release it as a 2018


Good find! Let's see if the facelift A3/S3 will be introduced early next year, then we'll have an idea how the RS3 will look like.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Just drove an RS3 in Stockholm. Awesome, awesome car. Definitely a major step up from the S3 I drove a while back. Really hope they bring it to the U.S. Sounded amazing, really fast. Handled very well from what I could tell (roads were cold and wet and it had summer tires on it, so didn't go crazy).


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Lol leaving a deposit for a car that maybe will be out by 2017...when it eventually comes out good luck negotiating on the price. Your deposit equates to emotionally attached. People just can't be patient sigh.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## TheMethLab (Jul 6, 2015)

scope213 said:


> Lol leaving a deposit for a car that maybe will be out by 2017...when it eventually comes out good luck negotiating on the price. Your deposit equates to emotionally attached. People just can't be patient sigh.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


You're not negotiating much on an RS car. My deposit guarantees I'll get one as soon as it comes out. Much like the deposits i have on other specialty cars. And What exactly should I be patient for? Why can't i get exactly what I want when I want it?


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

TheMethLab said:


> You're not negotiating much on an RS car. My deposit guarantees I'll get one as soon as it comes out. Much like the deposits i have on other specialty cars. And What exactly should I be patient for? Why can't i get exactly what I want when I want it?


What he's saying is: a deposit 2 hours after official announcement is likely more effective than a deposit 7 months early. Did the dealer just deposit it in their "money for possible future models" account?


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## TheMethLab (Jul 6, 2015)

Revolver1966 said:


> What he's saying is: a deposit 2 hours after official announcement is likely more effective than a deposit 7 months early. Did the dealer just deposit it in their "money for possible future models" account?


A deposit 2 hours after announcement is CERTAINLY NOT more effective than 7 months. Not for limited run specialty cars. Who knows how many will be released or how many allocations any given dealer will get. The reason I have some of the cars I have is because I had deposits on them for upwards of two years.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

TheMethLab said:


> A deposit 2 hours after announcement is CERTAINLY NOT more effective than 7 months. Not for limited run specialty cars. Who knows how many will be released or how many allocations any given dealer will get. The reason I have some of the cars I have is because I had deposits on them for upwards of two years.


Excited to see what pans out. Now many Audis have gone to 2.0T a 5-cylinder will be a breath of fresh air.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Well there's a reason it's called a "refundable deposit." I had money down on the CLA45, an S3 and an M235 at the same time at one point. If I don't like the deal or it's not worth the premium to get it ASAP what's the difference? And really, we're not talking about buying Paganis here. 2% off vs 6% off, which I think most would agree would be a smoking good deal for an RS3 close to launch, is what, $2K difference? I don't think that's a ton of money to get exactly what I want when I want it. I need something AWD and there are not a lot of options out there that I'd be happy with, and I am hoping it takes a little while to get here since I have my m235 for another 14 months.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Ha, Twitter feed the other day had Rohrl beating the hell out of the old S1 (which was 5-cyl if memory serves).


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## TnTNYC (Aug 1, 2012)

Audi Virtual Cockpit!! My favorite feature I don't have.

TnT

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk


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## ZPayne (Jan 8, 2014)

damn why can't they just give us the hatch and the sedan. Give us the hatch to hold us over for the sedan. we already get the hatch e-tron and tdi(once it is EPA certified..) so whats the deal. offering a uber hatch in america, they'd have the market all to themselves. There are a lot of enthusiasts who prefer the hatch. Maybe not in the base version, where normal people prefer sedans, but a lot of enthusiasts in the US appreciate the hatch


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Loved the hatch I drove a few weeks ago. I'd really want one if I didn't have an Allroad that I'm never going to sell. The sedan will be a better stable mate.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

ZPayne said:


> damn why can't they just give us the hatch and the sedan. Give us the hatch to hold us over for the sedan. we already get the hatch e-tron and tdi(once it is EPA certified..) so whats the deal. offering a uber hatch in america, they'd have the market all to themselves. There are a lot of enthusiasts who prefer the hatch. Maybe not in the base version, where normal people prefer sedans, but a lot of enthusiasts in the US appreciate the hatch


the problem is, there are plenty of people in America who despise a hatch. they will not spend more than 3x,xxx for a hatch. 
so while, yes, there are thousands of enthusiasts here who love a hot hatch...
how many would spend 40k on a hot hatch? see golf r. 4-5k over 4 years
how many would spend 50k on a hot hatch? maybe 1-2k over 4 years?
not enough to bring it over.

same thing with the S4 avant, which would appeal to me.
but not the S3/RS3, that hatch is just not big enough to really make a difference (to me).

america loves their sedans


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## JDBVR6 (Dec 29, 2006)

RyanA3 said:


> the problem is, there are plenty of people in America who despise a hatch. they will not spend more than 3x,xxx for a hatch.
> so while, yes, there are thousands of enthusiasts here who love a hot hatch...
> how many would spend 40k on a hot hatch? see golf r. 4-5k over 4 years
> how many would spend 50k on a hot hatch? maybe 1-2k over 4 years?
> ...



So what you are basically saying is, a 40k car in hatchback form is overpriced. Then you take the same car and make it into a sedan, it's all of a sudden not overpriced???? :sly: :facepalm: That makes absolutely no sense at all. Why do most people (Americans) have this expectation that hatchbacks are always supposed to be cheap?? Why is a sedan automatically worth more than an equivalent hatchback?

In reality the joke is on the people who buy the sedan because they are paying the same amount of money for less cargo capacity, less headroom, a smaller backseat and (IMO) more generic looks. This is the case with any A3 variation hatch vs the sedan. 


I prefer the hatch version of the A3 like many others here. Since Audi has basically turned their back on customers who want a hatch or wagon, my next vehicle will not be an Audi most likely. The Golf R is on my short list. :thumbup:


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

JDBVR6 said:


> So what you are basically saying is, a 40k car in hatchback form is overpriced. Then you take the same car and make it into a sedan, it's all of a sudden not overpriced???? :sly: :facepalm: That makes absolutely no sense at all. *Why do most people (Americans) have this expectation that hatchbacks are always supposed to be cheap??
> 
> *In reality the joke is on the people who buy the sedan because they are paying the same amount of money for less cargo capacity, less headroom, a smaller backseat and (IMO) more generic looks. This is the case with any A3 variation hatch vs the sedan.
> 
> ...


Americans have this perception because we've been told to have this perception for over 40 years. Remember the AMC Gremlin, Honda CR-X, Geo Metro Hatch and countless others. They were designed and marketed for what you just pointed out, more cargo space, headroom, etc, but for CHEAP. They were never made to be perceived as a "Premium" product but rather a "Value" product. 

Also if people only cared about cargo capacity, headroom, and seating capacity everyone would be driving mini vans  I know that's not your point but I think you get what I'm trying to say. We're in this styling age where we give up some comfort and practicality just to look better. Ask women about some of the shoes they wear. They are painful as all hell but they look "super hot" so they wear them. We purchase cars in the same manner. 

This is my opinion but I would never buy a hatch. I hate the way they look and they scream cheap and immature to me. Like I said this is my opinion not some stated fact of mine. 

It really comes down to preference and always has. If you like the hatch then great buy it, if you don't then buy the sedan. With that being said I would like to see both ultimately as I've always been a person who favors choices and options. My preference is just sedans


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## TripE46 (Feb 23, 2013)

JDBVR6 said:


> So what you are basically saying is, a 40k car in hatchback form is overpriced. Then you take the same car and make it into a sedan, it's all of a sudden not overpriced???? :sly: :facepalm: That makes absolutely no sense at all. Why do most people (Americans) have this expectation that hatchbacks are always supposed to be cheap?? Why is a sedan automatically worth more than an equivalent hatchback?
> 
> In reality the joke is on the people who buy the sedan because they are paying the same amount of money for less cargo capacity, less headroom, a smaller backseat and (IMO) more generic looks. This is the case with any A3 variation hatch vs the sedan.
> 
> ...


Americans like sedans...

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/audi-a3-sales-figures.html 

Notice the jump in sales as soon as Audi added the sedan to the A3 lineup? Audi, like other car companies is in the business of making money. So they are not going to bring a model variant to an market where they know that it won't sell . It's not that Americans think hatch backs should be cheap, it's that most Americans (especially those outside of the car enthusiast world) don't buy hatchbacks.

It sucks that they don't offer a hatch in the S3, but you're covered with the Golf R (if you can get your hands on one).


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## JDBVR6 (Dec 29, 2006)

-LoneStar- said:


> Americans have this perception because we've been told to have this perception for over 40 years. Remember the AMC Gremlin, Honda CR-X, Geo Metro Hatch and countless others. They were designed and marketed for what you just pointed out, more cargo space, headroom, etc, but for CHEAP. They were never made to be perceived as a "Premium" product but rather a "Value" product.
> 
> Also if people only cared about cargo capacity, headroom, and seating capacity everyone would be driving mini vans  I know that's not your point but I think you get what I'm trying to say. We're in this styling age where we give up some comfort and practicality just to look better. Ask women about some of the shoes they wear. They are painful as all hell but they look "super hot" so they wear them. We purchase cars in the same manner.
> 
> ...



Your point about perception is a valid one. I guess people don't want the "perceived" image of being cheap or poor so they buy sedans. Still a stupid reason to me but I digress. There some cases where the hatch is actually more expensive that the sedan equivalent. Mk7 Golf vs mk6 Jetta comes to mind. 

I guess what leaves a bad taste in the mouth of wagon/ hatch enthusiasts is the fact that we are being ignored almost completely by Audi. What we did have was taken away and replaced by more sedans and SUV's. Audi basically said to us "You will take what we decide to give you, and like it! " 

As a sedan lover, you have a plethora of options to choose from. What am I supposed to replace my current A3 sportback with? A 50k allroad or a hybrid e-trim sportback are my only options. As an Audi customer I should be able to purchase what I want from Audi, not what they think I should want. :facepalm: 

BMW sure doesn't seem to have a problem with that.


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## JDBVR6 (Dec 29, 2006)

TripE46 said:


> Americans like sedans...
> 
> http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/audi-a3-sales-figures.html
> 
> ...



Key word in that paragraph was Added. Yes, I agree it was a better business case to add a sedan, however; completely dropping the hatch was a mistake. It was a big F-you to a loyal market who would continue buying the A3 hatch. 

BMW offers the 3-series touring in the U.S. Because they know that car has a very loyal following and they want to continue to please those customers.

Also, my next car will most likely be a Golf R.


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## TripE46 (Feb 23, 2013)

JDBVR6 said:


> Key word in that paragraph was Added. Yes, I agree it was a better business case to add a sedan, however; completely dropping the hatch was a mistake. It was a big F-you to a loyal market who would continue buying the A3 hatch.
> 
> BMW offers the 3-series touring in the U.S. Because they know that car has a very loyal following and they want to continue to please those customers.
> 
> Also, my next car will most likely be a Golf R.



Obviously not loyal enough. If the car made them money, they would continue to sell it.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

American buyers are not logical when it comes to hatchbacks and wagons. 
1- they buy them....a lot, except the ride height is higher. While Geo, Yugo, Honda, etc. flood the US with hatches it isn't due to a perception of cheap. It's a perception based on lack of desirable wagons. The Porsche Macan and Mercedes GLA55 sell like hot cakes. 
2- wagons were generally considered a more expensive model and intended for people who have sporting intentions. 
3- Just like with SUVs people started buying the idea of something that used to be a niche product (Range Rovers, Defenders, G-Wagens, Wranglers, Wagoneers, Humvees, etc). 
4- Google the demographics of E-Class Wagon buyers. Read in a magazine a large percentage (75%?) pay cash. 
Wagon buyers average income is $175K MORE than sedan buyers . http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1411-interview-mercedes-benz-wagon-master-joe-stauble/


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

JDBVR6 said:


> Your point about perception is a valid one. I guess people don't want the "perceived" image of being cheap or poor so they buy sedans. Still a stupid reason to me but I digress. There some cases where the hatch is actually more expensive that the sedan equivalent. Mk7 Golf vs mk6 Jetta comes to mind.
> 
> I guess what leaves a bad taste in the mouth of wagon/ hatch enthusiasts is the fact that we are being ignored almost completely by Audi. What we did have was taken away and replaced by more sedans and SUV's. Audi basically said to us "You will take what we decide to give you, and like it! "
> 
> ...



I think you answered your own question as to why the hatch was taken away from you. SUV's and CUV's (Crossovers) stole the market. Hatches essentially morphed into crossovers. Automobile manufactures rebadged a hatch and called it a crossover. Now crossovers are a little different from hatches as they sit up higher then a traditional car. They are basically the offspring of a hatch and a mini van really. Crossovers just sell like hotcakes. Take a look as you drive tomorrow and count the hatch to crossover ratio.

Car manufactures are here first and foremost to turn a profit and somewhere down the list of priorities appeal to car enthusiast. With that being said its not all the people at Audi you should be upset at. Its more the "bean counters" you should direct your disgust too. I'm sure there are some VAG engineers bashing their heads against the wall because they see and have ideas ( bad a$$ hot hatches ) that will never to come to light. 

I feel the same way about manuals that you do about hatches. It's sad how manufacture's are slowly but surly killing the manual. I grew up driving a manual and up until last year drove one full time. I still have my play toy for the weekend and every time I drive it, I'm reminded how much I like manuals. I understand that dual clutches are superior in just about every metric, but there is something that can't be replicated and that's driver connection. 

Basically long live the hatch and manual 

Any new information on the RS3. Seems like this is the best kept secret ever. No spy shots or nothing. Note even an inside mole leaking information.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

-LoneStar- said:


> I think you answered your own question as to why the hatch was taken away from you. SUV's and CUV's (Crossovers) stole the market. Hatches essentially morphed into crossovers. Automobile manufactures rebadged a hatch and called it a crossover. Now crossovers are a little different from hatches as they sit up higher then a traditional car. They are basically the offspring of a hatch and a mini van really. Crossovers just sell like hotcakes. Take a look as you drive tomorrow and count the hatch to crossover ratio.
> 
> Car manufactures are here first and foremost to turn a profit and somewhere down the list of priorities appeal to car enthusiast. With that being said its not all the people at Audi you should be upset at. Its more the "bean counters" you should direct your disgust too. I'm sure there are some VAG engineers bashing their heads against the wall because they see and have ideas ( bad a$$ hot hatches ) that will never to come to light.
> 
> ...


Yep. Is a weird question: does domestic demand beget supply or vice versus?


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## Hawk (May 7, 2010)

Will there be an RS3 on the road in Canada/U.S. by Spring 2016? Or should I just get an S3?


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Hawk said:


> Will there be an RS3 on the road in Canada/U.S. by Spring 2016? Or should I just get an S3?


There won't be an RS3 on the road by Spring 2016 as we have not even seen any spyshot of it. My guess is late 2017 the earliest.

If you already have a car right now and that your ultimate goal is the RS3, I'd suggest you wait, unless money is a nonissue and you'd trade-in your 1-2 year-old S3 to the RS3.


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## xbr80bx (Feb 2, 2007)

nadaguides.com main page

???


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

xbr80bx said:


> nadaguides.com main page
> 
> ???


OMG IT'S A SIGN...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

scope213 said:


> OMG IT'S A SIGN...


Yep, it's a SIGN of NADA Guides' web-team incompetency. The image name is "2016-Audi-A3-75924.png" and clicking it takes to the e-Tron section.


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## fries_ahoy (Feb 22, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> We'll get RS 3 sedan at facelift. Bank on it. The facelift cars will also have the Audi virtual cockpit.





-LoneStar- said:


> http://www.quattroworld.com/future-models/2017-audi-a3-spied-cold-weather-testing/
> 
> Looks like the facelift may come for the 2017 model. Not sure if they will bring the RS3 at the same time or wait to release it as a 2018


perfect...now if NHTSA can just get moving on laser headlights


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## xbr80bx (Feb 2, 2007)

I'm going to jump on an M2 here soon if Audi doesn't hurry up and commit.


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## ZPayne (Jan 8, 2014)

xbr80bx said:


> I'm going to jump on an M2 here soon if Audi doesn't hurry up and commit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just do it, it will be the better driving car. And BMW still values the enthusiasts and will be offering a manual :thumbup:


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

ZPayne said:


> Just do it, it will be the better driving car. And BMW still values the enthusiasts and will be offering a manual


No, it'll be the better track car probably. The RS3 will be the real driver's car here. I think it's safe to say 99% of the buyers will not be tracking either of them or getting a manual. Instead most will be dealing with the daily drudgery of major city commuting and traffic utilizing the perfect DSG tranny. YEAH, I rather be in an RS3.

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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Yea, the RS3 is definitely a better daily car than the M2 if one doesn't track much.

IMHO, the RS3 is the real S3 in my mind, since it has a bigger engine than the A3 2.0T, analogous to how an S4 has a supercharged V6 vs. an A4 with a turbo 4. A stronger turbo 4 with the same displacement just doesn't cut it (not enough distinction).


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## jiannu (Jun 10, 2015)

https://youtu.be/vpOoYCHEw0g

This could be the new RS3...


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## Hawk (May 7, 2010)

VWNCC said:


> IMHO, the RS3 is the real S3 in my mind.


Totally agree. The whole S part of Audi's line-up has gone soft and now RS is what normal S used to be. It's a shame.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Hawk said:


> Totally agree. The whole S part of Audi's line-up has gone soft and now RS is what normal S used to be. It's a shame.


I also agree but with the exception of the S3 8V. It's an amazing little sprinter...

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## Hawk (May 7, 2010)

jiannu said:


> This could be the new RS3...


Think you're right. :thumbup:


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Hawk said:


> Totally agree. The whole S part of Audi's line-up has gone soft and now RS is what normal S used to be. It's a shame.


Totally... I mean in the old days, the S cars were direct competitors to BMW's M cars. Nowadays, the S cars are competitors to BMW's #35i (think S4/S5 vs. 335i/435i and RS5 vs. M3/M4 coupe).


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## India Whiskey Charlie (Feb 15, 2006)

VWNCC said:


> Totally... I mean in the old days, the S cars were direct competitors to BMW's M cars.


Maybe, but none of the S cars was anything like a BMW M. They were all inferior in every aspect. I knew quite a number of people who owned B5 S4's and C4/C5 S6's and unless they were heavily modified couldn't hold a candle to any M car.

IMO, the current S cars are as good or better than their BMW counterparts and are hardly softened up. I'd take an S3 over any 235i and an S4 over a 335i anytime.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

India Whiskey Charlie said:


> Maybe, but none of the S cars was anything like a BMW M. They were all inferior in every aspect. I knew quite a number of people who owned B5 S4's and C4/C5 S6's and unless they were heavily modified couldn't hold a candle to any M car.
> 
> IMO, the current S cars are as good or better than their BMW counterparts and are hardly softened up. I'd take an S3 over any 235i and an S4 over a 335i anytime.


B5 = "old days" 

The S2 fared well against the M3 Sport Evo and 190E Evo II (who knows why R&T didn't do S2 v. M3 v. 190E 16v :screwy


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## India Whiskey Charlie (Feb 15, 2006)

Mcstiff said:


> B5 = "old days"
> 
> The S2 fared well against the M3 Sport Evo and 190E Evo II (who knows why R&T didn't do S2 v. M3 v. 190E 16v :screwy


Sorry, I never put any credence into magazine reviews/tests. I drive the cars and judge them for myself. Try that sometime and see how screwed-up or skewed they are...


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

India Whiskey Charlie said:


> Sorry, I never put any credence into magazine reviews/tests. I drive the cars and judge them for myself. Try that sometime and see how screwed-up or skewed they are...


Hard for me to drive cars which are not in the US. 

Clearly since RS became a thing it has been the top of the line, competing against the top of the competition. RS may be a result of S cars being beat by EVO versions; it seems BMW has lifted the M a bit since the EVOs are not offered. 

Anyway it's a sliding scale, the B5 was designed as a competitor to the E36.


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## India Whiskey Charlie (Feb 15, 2006)

Mcstiff said:


> Had for me to drive cars which are not in the US.


True. One more reason why the older S cars in the US were not anything like the M cars.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Mcstiff said:


> Clearly since RS became a thing it has been the top of the line, competing against the top of the competition. RS may be a result of S cars being beat by EVO versions; it seems BMW has lifted the M a bit since the EVOs are not offered.


That's exactly the issue. Instead of keeping the S to compete with BMW M, they kinda moved S down a bit to make room for the RS. Maybe I am old school, I prefer having the S as the top of the line and having it compete with the M instead of the S being only mid-level.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

VWNCC said:


> That's exactly the issue. Instead of keeping the S to compete with BMW M, they kinda moved S down a bit to make room for the RS. Maybe I am old school, I prefer having the S as the top of the line and having it compete with the M instead of the S being only mid-level.


I agree. From a product perspective, if your mid level is competitive with your competitor's top what is the market/function of a higher trim? I suppose the 911 has this with the GTx RS/GTS/Turbo though they have a wider scope Track/Fast Street/Grand Touring Super-ish car. 

To bring this back to the RS3, if the S3 was equivalent to the M2 would the RS3 be like an RS Porsche as the Clubsport? I'd love it as a package but maybe the pie only slices so thin.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

Mcstiff said:


> I agree. From a product perspective, if your mid level is competitive with your competitor's top what is the market/function of a higher trim? I suppose the 911 has this with the GTx RS/GTS/Turbo though they have a wider scope Track/Fast Street/Grand Touring Super-ish car.
> 
> To bring this back to the RS3, if the S3 was equivalent to the M2 would the RS3 be like an RS Porsche as the Clubsport? I'd love it as a package but maybe the pie only slices so thin.


S is similar to the M-sport cars. BMW offer more in their regular cars than Audi. Ex: the A-series cars don't offer a car like the 335i M-Sport - that compares to an S-series Audi. Audi uses the 2.0T in many cars whereas other makers have a larger array of engines.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> S is similar to the M-sport cars. BMW offer more in their regular cars than Audi. Ex: the A-series cars don't offer a car like the 335i M-Sport - that compares to an S-series Audi. Audi uses the 2.0T in many cars whereas other makers have a larger array of engines.


Now, it is a bit less confusing that BMW has now added the M prefix in front of 235 and 340. Basically....

Audi A-series lower power engine competes with BMW #20i.
Audi A-series higher power engine competes with BMW #28i.
Audi A-series higher power engine with S-line pack competes with BMW #28i with M-sport pack.

Audi S-series competes with BMW M#35i.
-Basically comes standard with the S-line and M-sport pack standard and with a stronger engine and other misc performance upgrades.

Audi RS-series competes with BMW M#.
-Has more unique body panel mods (like bulging wheel arches) that is not available in lower trim cars and usually some major performance upgrades.


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## pmanpop (Jun 25, 2010)

^great post


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

Right, so if Sx=Mz what is RSx? I'd also assume prices would adjust.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Mcstiff said:


> Right, so if Sx=Mz what is RSx? I'd also assume prices would adjust.


The thing is, Sx != Mz nowadays. Sx = M#35i only (e.g. S3 vs. M235i; RS3 vs. M2).


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

VWNCC said:


> The thing is, Sx != Mz nowadays. Sx = M#35i only.


I never said it wasn't the current reality, "if" was referring a hypothetical parallel reality where Sx=Mz and maybe the RS becomes a limited production special edition like an M3 GTS or ZCP. I'm not sure this would make much of a difference, basically a sort of badge engineering.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Mcstiff said:


> I never said it wasn't the current reality, "if" was referring a hypothetical parallel reality where Sx=Mz and maybe the RS becomes a limited production special edition like an M3 GTS or ZCP. I'm not sure this would make much of a difference, basically a sort of badge engineering.


Don't worry, I read you. 

That hypothetical parallel reality is probably quite unlikely in this world...The S was somewhat = to the M before (B5 days at least)...since Audi has already moved the S down, I don't think they will move it back up to compete with the M, especially they are going to launch more and more RS models (e.g. RS4 sedan for the new A4).


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

scope213 said:


> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


I hope this is not the final facelift, there are several design and proportional faults. This looks photoshopped.


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

Looks photoshopped to me.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Please Dear God, no. Those angles on the headlights look absolutely horrifying.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

VWNCC said:


> Don't worry, I read you.
> 
> That hypothetical parallel reality is probably quite unlikely in this world...The S was somewhat = to the M before (B5 days at least)...since Audi has already moved the S down, I don't think they will move it back up to compete with the M, especially they are going to launch more and more RS models (e.g. RS4 sedan for the new A4).


Was just looking at the RS7 for dad, I think you need to keep in mind that you can add some performance stuff to the RS models (i.e. ceramic brakes, CF packages, etc) that get you what BMW offers in the limited run M stuff like the CSL for instance that's rumored for the M2. Further complicating the matter is that everyone does packages vs individual options differently (brand to brand and even same brand EU vs U.S. for instance. Go to the website and build a P-Car and you'll see there are literally hundreds of boxes you can check. The most direct comparison would be C300/C450 AMG/C63 AMG for Benz is 328/340/M3 for BMW and A4/S4/RS4 for Audi. This has actually gotten quite a bit simpler in recent years. Then fully loaded RS4 with all the racing doodads gets you the limited edition M3 or black series AMG level.


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

I've had enough of waiting and got an S3 yesterday  Excellent car, I'm very happy with everything it offers.


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

Ryegor said:


> I hope this is not the final facelift, there are several design and proportional faults. This looks photoshopped.


Having looked at those spyshots of the A3 that leaked last month. 

That pic is one of those rendered pics from early last year but it's not far off from the real deal. I hate the knew grill, its angled, and it's ugly, and Audi is making their cars look like copies of Hyundais and Fords which copied Aston Martin.

A3 facelift









A3 Cabriolet facelift


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

gamegenie said:


> Having looked at those spyshots of the A3 that leaked last month.
> 
> That pic is one of those rendered pics from early last year but it's not far off from the real deal. I hate the knew grill, its angled, and it's ugly, and Audi is making their cars look like copies of Hyundais and Fords which copied Aston Martin.
> 
> ...


Wow I was hoping that photo shopped one was just that, a photo shop, with nothing too accurate but after looking at the cabriolet pic it's closer then I thought. The headlights look pretty accurate but I was hoping the smile under the grill wasn't accurate but looks like it might be. Ewwww. If it looks more like the new (2017) A4/S4 that wouldn't be a bad thing but right now I do think the s3 is one of the best looking Audi's in all of its model range. 

What I don't get is that the sedan and cabriolet front bumper looks completely different camouflage or not. Maybe they are trying to make them more distinguishable from one another other then the obvious 4 door sedan vs 2 door convertible. That smile design looks terrible though. Not opposed to the bumper vents on either but that extra smile opening has to go. Just too much and does nothing for the design at all.


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## Hawk (May 7, 2010)

scope213 said:


>


This is REALLY, REALLY bad!!!!    

Audi has lost the plot!


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

-LoneStar- said:


> Wow I was hoping that photo shopped one was just that, a photo shop, with nothing too accurate but after looking at the cabriolet pic it's closer then I thought. The headlights look pretty accurate but I was hoping the smile under the grill wasn't accurate but looks like it might be. Ewwww. If it looks more like the new (2017) A4/S4 that wouldn't be a bad thing but right now I do think the s3 is one of the best looking Audi's in all of its model range.
> 
> What I don't get is that the sedan and cabriolet front bumper looks completely different camouflage or not. Maybe they are trying to make them more distinguishable from one another other then the obvious 4 door sedan vs 2 door convertible. That smile design looks terrible though. Not opposed to the bumper vents on either but that extra smile opening has to go. Just too much and does nothing for the design at all.


The cab is an s-line (Which means basically s3 bodywork), while the sedan is not, that's why they're so different. This was all posted to fourtitude a little while back. As for the headlights on both camo'd cars, to me they look like the xenons in the current base models of both, not anything new.


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-tt-rs-to-get-new-all-aluminum-turbo-five-cylinder-oled-taillights/

"Throughout the late 1970s and the ’80s, Audi’s enthusiast reputation was largely shaped by its fantastic five-cylinder engines. Powerful, torquey, and possessed of an unmistakable sound, they were a unique and defining feature for the brand. In the ’90s, they made way for a generation of rather dull V-6 units, but a new five-banger was launched with the last-generation TT RS and RS3. Based on the Mexico-built EA113 four-cylinder “Iron Gustav” engine, it proved to be a highly efficient and powerful unit with a character of its own.

As VW is phasing out the EA113 engine, there was concern among aficionados that the formidable straight-five might be on its way out as well. But we have learned from our sources that the engine will instead receive a major upgrade and move to an aluminum block. To be launched in the upcoming, third-gen TT RS (it hasn’t been unveiled yet; the less-potent TTS is pictured above) and the facelifted RS3 Quattro later this year, it is expected to crank out around 400 horsepower, comparing favorably to Mercedes-AMG’s 375-hp 2.0-liter M133 four-cylinder engine.

The new engine won’t be the only innovative feature of the next TT RS. We hear it’ll be launched with OLED taillights as seen on the ultra-limited-edition BMW M4 GTS. Audi also will take OLED technology into the interior of its vehicles, as you can look for the upcoming, all-electric R8 e-tron to feature mirrors with an OLED display inside."


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

araemo said:


> The cab is an s-line (Which means basically s3 bodywork), while the sedan is not, that's why they're so different. This was all posted to fourtitude a little while back. As for the headlights on both camo'd cars, to me they look like the xenons in the current base models of both, not anything new.


Oh I did not realize the cab was sporting the S-line. Makes sense now. Hopefully they tweak that design some. Also the headlights if you look closely at the camo cutoff line they look like the upcoming A4/S4. I think this is the new design language they are going for as far as headlights go. 


Canthoney said:


> http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-tt-rs-to-get-new-all-aluminum-turbo-five-cylinder-oled-taillights/
> 
> "Throughout the late 1970s and the ’80s, Audi’s enthusiast reputation was largely shaped by its fantastic five-cylinder engines. Powerful, torquey, and possessed of an unmistakable sound, they were a unique and defining feature for the brand. In the ’90s, they made way for a generation of rather dull V-6 units, but a new five-banger was launched with the last-generation TT RS and RS3. Based on the Mexico-built EA113 four-cylinder “Iron Gustav” engine, it proved to be a highly efficient and powerful unit with a character of its own.
> 
> ...


I sure hope they are right. I can list a number of "mid engine corvette" articles they have come out with over the years so I take most of what they say with a grain of salt. With that being said they certainly list something very plausible. I don't know how much further the current EA888 can go. Yes it can be cranked up but I think Audi might be smart enough to know the 5 cylinder would make them very unique compared to the competition. And lets be honest a 4 banger sounds like a$$ compared to say a BMW I6 or Audi's current RS3 which I think sounds incredible.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

scope213 said:


> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


The headlights look pretty weird, but I do like the rest of the design.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

I'm fairly certain the headlights will look something like this. I hope the rest of the bumper takes a styling cue from this as the photo shopped ones look pretty bad.


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## hassenrennen (Jan 5, 2004)

Either way..the recent pics make me glad I picked up the latest version of S3. Those front ends look horrible.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

-LoneStar- said:


> Oh I did not realize the cab was sporting the S-line. Makes sense now. Hopefully they tweak that design some. Also the headlights if you look closely at the camo cutoff line they look like the upcoming A4/S4. I think this is the new design language they are going for as far as headlights go.
> 
> 
> I sure hope they are right. I can list a number of "mid engine corvette" articles they have come out with over the years so I take most of what they say with a grain of salt. With that being said they certainly list something very plausible. I don't know how much further the current EA888 can go. Yes it can be cranked up but I think Audi might be smart enough to know the 5 cylinder would make them very unique compared to the competition. And lets be honest a 4 banger sounds like a$$ compared to say a BMW I6 or Audi's current RS3 which I think sounds incredible.


Just to give you some real world input, I've got an M235 which sounds really good. Better than the S3 IMO. That said the RS3 sounds insane by comparison, blows the BMW out of the water. I've driven all three cars, and the RS3 sounded savage by comparison to the other two. Really added to the fun factor.


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## notavr (Aug 28, 2012)

http://www.quattroworld.com/audi-ne...port-to-the-fight-against-bmw-m-mercedes-amg/


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## fries_ahoy (Feb 22, 2012)

notavr said:


> http://www.quattroworld.com/audi-ne...port-to-the-fight-against-bmw-m-mercedes-amg/


"He is also working to bring the C8 RS 6 Avant to the US market when it debuts"

oooo baby


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

^^^^^ Ha, I was thinking the same thing. Test drove an E63 wagon the other day, would DEFINITELY get the Audi instead. That car must be an absolute animal. Although truth be told the Merc was pretty f*cking nice. Wow that thing could move.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> Just to give you some real world input, I've got an M235 which sounds really good. Better than the S3 IMO. That said the RS3 sounds insane by comparison, blows the BMW out of the water. I've driven all three cars, and the RS3 sounded savage by comparison to the other two. Really added to the fun factor.


Well its nice to hear from a person who has actual experience with all of the key players. I agree 100% that your M235 sounds better then the S3. I will say I'm one of the few who doesn't think an inline 6 sounds that great to begin with. I don't think they sound bad its just when I hear them I think "meh". The S3 really only sounds cool during upshifts when you get that "braaaaappppp" sound. This is really only achieved with some of the aftermarket exhaust which I only think sound good at full throttle and upshifts. Any other throttle input they sound pretty bad actually. Like just a lot of noise with no tone to them. From the clips of the RS3 I've listened to it sounds silly awesome. The pops and crackles it makes sound extremely unique. 



notavr said:


> http://www.quattroworld.com/audi-ne...port-to-the-fight-against-bmw-m-mercedes-amg/


This is some of the best (reliable) news we've got in awhile. Great article that leaves a lot to be excited about.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

-LoneStar- said:


> I'm fairly certain the headlights will look something like this. I hope the rest of the bumper takes a styling cue from this as the photo shopped ones look pretty bad.


I do hope they update the LED headlights to use projector housings like the rest of the model range. The reflector LEDs are disappointing (and I REALLY hope for some form of adaptive headlights to come back to the higher trims... though I guess i'm not holding my breath. Audi wants matrix LED to be the way to go (and it really is - turning individual solid-state LEDs on/off is much less likely to break than a couple precise motors to move the lenses/assembly up/down/left/right...) but the US DOT doesn't agree yet.)


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

-LoneStar- said:


> Well its nice to hear from a person who has actual experience with all of the key players. I agree 100% that your M235 sounds better then the S3. I will say I'm one of the few who doesn't think an inline 6 sounds that great to begin with. I don't think they sound bad its just when I hear them I think "meh". The S3 really only sounds cool during upshifts when you get that "braaaaappppp" sound. This is really only achieved with some of the aftermarket exhaust which I only think sound good at full throttle and upshifts. Any other throttle input they sound pretty bad actually. Like just a lot of noise with no tone to them. From the clips of the RS3 I've listened to it sounds silly awesome. The pops and crackles it makes sound extremely unique.
> 
> 
> 
> This is some of the best (reliable) news we've got in awhile. Great article that leaves a lot to be excited about.


I was literally giggling like a school girl on the RS3 test drive every time the exhaust started making noise. I didn't go too crazy because them letting me drive the car without an EU license was questionable to begin with, but the car sounded amazing. Even better than the TTS I test drove if that gives you any indication. It just sounds angry and violent.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> I was literally giggling like a school girl on the RS3 test drive every time the exhaust started making noise. I didn't go too crazy because them letting me drive the car without an EU license was questionable to begin with, but the car sounded amazing. Even better than the TTS I test drove if that gives you any indication. It just sounds angry and violent.


Ha I'm sure I would be giggling too. Its just a sounds that makes you laugh with pure excitement. Hopefully if the article linked a few post back is true, we will be getting the 5 cylinder with an all new aluminum block. This will surely help with the understeer that plagues the current RS3. Sounds like it should be a win win:thumbup:


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## madmac48 (Nov 27, 2014)

notavr said:


> http://www.quattroworld.com/audi-ne...port-to-the-fight-against-bmw-m-mercedes-amg/


This is indeed great news,as we have been denied RS models especialiy sedans.But still we will only get 1 sedan,the RS3.Still the RS5 SB would be a reasonable compromise and a bit smaller/cheaper than the RS6/7.Still the thought of being in the "600+" club is VERY tempting. if the budget alllows it.If you want a Sedan there is always the E63 coming.I looked at S8 beside an RS7 and much preferred the RS7,S8 looked very dated.I am suggesting that S8+ = RS8 in fact.
Mac


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## grtk.brandon (Aug 17, 2015)

Realistically, what do we expect will be the starting price point for the RS3?


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## P-40 (Mar 9, 2013)

grtk.brandon said:


> Realistically, what do we expect will be the starting price point for the RS3?


If I had to guess, I'd say around (just under) 60k US. (Or $180,000 Canadian... )


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

P-40 said:


> If I had to guess, I'd say around (just under) 60k US. (Or $180,000 Canadian... )


LOL!!!!! :laugh:

After the laughter, I can only feel the sadness..... our CAD...... :banghead:

BTW, I'd say not more than 52k US starting (that's the M2 starting price).


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

I'm thinking it will start somewhere between $52-55K. This should put it right with its main completion(m2,CLA45). This will put it at slight premium of the CLA45 and right on par with the M2. We all know that both those cars can sky rocket with little necessary options so no big deal for the RS3 to come in a little higher. I believe car manufactures try set their top spec model at a price that puts it even with a loaded out base model. You can get a loaded A3 for about what a base S3 starts out. You can get a M2 at around what a loaded out m235i will cost. You can get a CLA45 for around what a loaded CLA250 cost. You can get a XX for around what a loaded YY cost.....You get the point


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

-LoneStar- said:


> This is some of the best (reliable) news we've got in awhile. Great article that leaves a lot to be excited about.


"He is also working to bring the C8 RS 6 Avant to the US market when it debuts"

a little over my budget but this would work for me or an awd c63 amg wagon, I'm not sure about the larger size of those cars though as the s3 pretty good


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

I was told by a very reliable source it will be priced and optioned in line with the M2, give or take. Like not many options comes pretty loaded up etc.


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## P-40 (Mar 9, 2013)

BEM10001 said:


> I was told by a very reliable source it will be priced and optioned in line with the M2, give or take. Like not many options comes pretty loaded up etc.


Forgive me, what's the pricing of the M2?

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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

P-40 said:


> Forgive me, what's the pricing of the M2?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk



http://blog.caranddriver.com/what-price-m-ness-bmw-announces-pricing-of-the-2016-m2-coupe/


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> I was told by a very reliable source it will be priced and optioned in line with the M2, give or take. Like not many options comes pretty loaded up etc.


Without naming your source, how is your source connected with this information. Not doubting you just curious how much they might know.

I'm good with it coming pretty loaded standard. I think when they release the "base" price of a lot of things it gives people false hope if they can really afford it or not. I mean it seems like just to get the features you really need you need to spend 5k on options. Its amazing the difference in price on most all car manufactures models. You can literally take a car that starts in the mid 30's and when its all said and done option it out to near $50K. Its just kind of crazy you know what I mean.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

-LoneStar- said:


> ... You can literally take a car that starts in the mid 30's and when its all said and done option it out to near $50K. Its just kind of crazy you know what I mean.


I totally agree and know what you're talking about!


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Same source that gave me the actual S3 pricing sheet a month or two before it became public. I posted it on another forum.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> Same source that gave me the actual S3 pricing sheet a month or two before it became public. I posted it on another forum.


Do you have any other details about? Maybe options or performance metrics? When should we expect it?


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Will see what I can find out. Just had a VERY quick convo as I was at my BMW dealer about to work some magic and cut the line on the M2.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> Will see what I can find out. Just had a VERY quick convo as I was at my BMW dealer about to work some magic and cut the line on the M2.


NICE! Patiently waiting for details


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

P-40 said:


> Forgive me, what's the pricing of the M2?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


With destination it's right around $52.5 then $3K for auto tranny, not sure but think $500 for some of the paint options. Thing comes pretty fully loaded from the factory (not counting M-Performance doodads you can add at the port).


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

-LoneStar- said:


> Without naming your source, how is your source connected with this information. Not doubting you just curious how much they might know.
> 
> I'm good with it coming pretty loaded standard. I think when they release the "base" price of a lot of things it gives people false hope if they can really afford it or not. I mean it seems like just to get the features you really need you need to spend 5k on options. Its amazing the difference in price on most all car manufactures models. You can literally take a car that starts in the mid 30's and when its all said and done option it out to near $50K. Its just kind of crazy you know what I mean.


You think VAG cars or BMW are bad, try building a Porsche. When we did the Macan I was going through the option list for hours.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

based on the M2 price posted above, are you suggesting 52.5 or 55.5 for the RS3?

cheers


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> You think VAG cars or BMW are bad, try building a Porsche. When we did the Macan I was going through the option list for hours.


Yes I have built a Macan! Your right your brain in numb after going through all the possible options. Like options overload for sure. I feel BMW and VAG lump options into "trim levels" while Porsche lets you go nuts a la carte. If anyone is ever bored go build one its quite time consuming. 



RyanA3 said:


> based on the M2 price posted above, are you suggesting 52.5 or 55.5 for the RS3?
> 
> cheers


My guess is that its going to come in at $52,400. I really don't think it will be more then $55k. This will ever so slightly undercut the M2 and give the perception of being the better bang for the buck coming under the 52.5 mark. I know its splitting hairs but people use marketing technics like these to get whatever upper hand then can get.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

-LoneStar- said:


> My guess is that its going to come in at $52,400. I really don't think it will be more then $55k. This will ever so slightly undercut the M2 and give the perception of being the better bang for the buck coming under the 52.5 mark. I know its splitting hairs but people use marketing technics like these to get whatever upper hand then can get.


Well the automatic trans will be standard so no charge there. I think you're going to get a nicely equipped car for right at or under $53K with the few available options being things like full carbon interior trim, ceramic brakes, etc. All will be very expensive and unnecessary for a nicely optioned daily driver / road car. M2 has basically everything included so I don't see the RS3 going the CLA route with $20K in available options that most people would want or need. That said we're early in the game here as there is no official confirmation on the car coming here as of yet. 

One thing to keep in mind, I think that pricing holds if the car launched today. 12-18 months from now who knows, all 2-series will be getting a face lift and typical annual increases could get the RS3 comps up a few grand.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

BEM10001 said:


> Well the automatic trans will be standard so no charge there. I think you're going to get a nicely equipped car for right at or under $53K with the few available options being things like full carbon interior trim, ceramic brakes, etc. All will be very expensive and unnecessary for a nicely optioned daily driver / road car. M2 has basically everything included so I don't see the RS3 going the CLA route with $20K in available options that most people would want or need. That said we're early in the game here as there is no official confirmation on the car coming here as of yet.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind, I think that pricing holds if the car launched today. 12-18 months from now who knows, all 2-series will be getting a face lift and typical annual increases could get the RS3 comps up a few grand.



If a very nicely equipped S3 can reach $52k, the RS 3 will have to command a higher price premium than the $55k you suggest. My guess would be a starting price of $55k and with a few options come in at or just under $60k.

The new B9 S4 pricing will probably also play in to the price of the RS 3 as well.


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## fries_ahoy (Feb 22, 2012)

BEM10001 said:


> You think VAG cars or BMW are bad, try building a Porsche. When we did the Macan I was going through the option list for hours.





-LoneStar- said:


> Yes I have built a Macan! Your right your brain in numb after going through all the possible options. Like options overload for sure. I feel BMW and VAG lump options into "trim levels" while Porsche lets you go nuts a la carte. If anyone is ever bored go build one its quite time consuming.
> .


haha i know that feeling so well.. i agonized over that stupid thing, death by a thousand cuts.



ProjectA3 said:


> If a very nicely equipped S3 can reach $52k, the RS 3 will have to command a higher price premium than the $55k you suggest. My guess would be a starting price of $55k and with a few options come in at or just under $60k.
> 
> The new B9 S4 pricing will probably also play in to the price of the RS 3 as well.


that's a good point.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

fries_ahoy said:


> haha i know that feeling so well.. i agonized over that stupid thing, death by a thousand cuts.
> 
> 
> 
> that's a good point.


Gotta respectfully disagree. Since the BMW is the best comp we have, using that as an example a fully loaded M235 can be more than an M2. Why would this be any different? Pretty common for a fully loaded model to be at or a little above the next one up


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

What's a loaded S7 top out at?


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Mcstiff said:


> What's a loaded S7 top out at?


Fully loaded north of $106K, RS7 is $109K. Keep in mind as you get into the more expensive stuff the top end models tend to command a bit of a premium (i.e. the big black series Benzes). If the RS7 is only $3K more than a fully loaded S version, I can't imagine the 3 will command the same type of premium that was suggested. The cars cost more than 2x as much.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

ProjectA3 said:


> If a very nicely equipped S3 can reach $52k, the RS 3 will have to command a higher price premium than the $55k you suggest. My guess would be a starting price of $55k and with a few options come in at or just under $60k.
> 
> The new B9 S4 pricing will probably also play in to the price of the RS 3 as well.


This is such a fun game because we really don't have any hard evidence to go on. We speculate based on the competition which is the best course we can take at this time. Right now you can build a fully loaded A3 for around $45K. The S3 starts at $42.5K. It appears Audi isn't concerned with any type cannibalization within the A3/S3 line. You can build a fully decked out S3 for $53.5K. If the A3 to S3 held true then the RS3 could start around $51K but I don't think this will happen for a couple of reason. This will undercut the M2 by a good chunk of change and Audi isn't in the market of making sweet deals they are in the business to make as much as they can. They wouldn't want to cheat themselves  They may want distance themselves with the RS line to make it more of a premium to the S line which would make sense. 

I think best case it comes in at $52.5 and worst case it grows to $55K. If it really did come out at the $60K mark I think they would be shooting themselves in the foot. This is a large premium over the M2 and HUGE premium over the CLA45 AMG. Now I know the AMG probably doesn't leave the lot for less then $55K but still. 



BEM10001 said:


> Fully loaded north of $106K, RS7 is $109K. Keep in mind as you get into the more expensive stuff the top end models tend to command a bit of a premium (i.e. the big black series Benzes). If the RS7 is only $3K more than a fully loaded S version, I can't imagine the 3 will command the same type of premium that was suggested. The cars cost more than 2x as much.



This is what I'm thinking. Worst case the RS3 comes out at $55k if this holds true. 

At the end of the day everything I just suggested is speculation and I could be WAY off with what I believe it should come out at. I think its a 75% chance it falls in the $52k-55k and 20% chance it falls in the $55k-60K and a 5% its over $60K


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

-LoneStar- said:


> This is such a fun game because we really don't have any hard evidence to go on. We speculate based on the competition which is the best course we can take at this time. Right now you can build a fully loaded A3 for around $45K. The S3 starts at $42.5K. It appears Audi isn't concerned with any type cannibalization within the A3/S3 line. You can build a fully decked out S3 for $53.5K. If the A3 to S3 held true then the RS3 could start around $51K but I don't think this will happen for a couple of reason. This will undercut the M2 by a good chunk of change and Audi isn't in the market of making sweet deals they are in the business to make as much as they can. They wouldn't want to cheat themselves  They may want distance themselves with the RS line to make it more of a premium to the S line which would make sense.
> 
> I think best case it comes in at $52.5 and worst case it grows to $55K. If it really did come out at the $60K mark I think they would be shooting themselves in the foot. This is a large premium over the M2 and HUGE premium over the CLA45 AMG. Now I know the AMG probably doesn't leave the lot for less then $55K but still.
> 
> ...


CLA is a bitch for a comp because it comes so stripped and there are so many available options. When I spoke with the head of AMG years ago at the NYC show he told me back then all-in if you checked every box you could get well north of $60K. I think M2 most you can add is $3K for the auto trans and then $1500 if memory serves for an exec package (not sure what that includes). RS cars, at least from my memory, are more like the M and come pretty fully loaded. RS3 will be auto-only though, so not sure how that plays. 

Bottom line, anything between $50 and $55 I think is the sweet spot, above that you start getting into silly pricing territory. Is the car better than a fully loaded S3? Yes absolutely, and I have driven both. Is it $10k or 20% better? That's a stretch. That said I'd have no interest in some of the "fully loaded" stuff so S3 how I'd want it versus RS3 how I'd want it is how you'd have to play that game, so the gap could be bigger depending on how options work out.


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## grtk.brandon (Aug 17, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> Bottom line, anything between $50 and $55 I think is the sweet spot, above that you start getting into silly pricing territory.


I agree. North of $60k and I'd be looking at a different car.


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## fries_ahoy (Feb 22, 2012)

grtk.brandon said:


> I agree. North of $60k and I'd be looking at a different car.


pretty much how i see it as well. I'll be trading the sq5 in so the less cash i give them, the better.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Just curious what made you chose that one over the Macan? We looked at both but couldn't drive either before ordering.


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## fries_ahoy (Feb 22, 2012)

BEM10001 said:


> Just curious what made you chose that one over the Macan? We looked at both but couldn't drive either before ordering.


I preferred the interior of the q5 much much more than the macan. also the particular model that the dealership happened to have on the lot was _exactly_ how i wanted to spec it...and the porsche quickly spiraled out of control with cost with options.

I really enjoy it. Though if an S4 wagon or RS3 sportback were available, i'd rather have had either of those.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

While the exterior of the Macan looks nicer, the SQ5 is probably the better car to get. The supercharged V6 alone would probably feel better than the turbocharged V6 of the Macan.


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## India Whiskey Charlie (Feb 15, 2006)

VWNCC said:


> While the exterior of the Macan looks nicer, the SQ5 is probably the better car to get.


To each his own but I think the Macan is only slightly less gross looking than the Cayenne. Personally, I'd take an SQ5 over any Macan anytime.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

India Whiskey Charlie said:


> To each his own but I think the Macan is only slightly less gross looking than the Cayenne. Personally, I'd take an SQ5 over any Macan anytime.


I will get the SQ5 over the Macan as well because of interior and engine, it is just that I find the Macan better and newer looking. The SQ5 looks a bit dated as the new model is about to come out.


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## Hawk (May 7, 2010)

This thread needs more pics!


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## HB32 (Dec 15, 2013)

So are we thinking 400hp when this comes out or more like 360-370?


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Hawk said:


> This thread needs more pics!


Yeah man, I agree with you, but the pictures are renders since this car hasn't been released yet.




















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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

scope213 said:


> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk





gamegenie said:


> Having looked at those spyshots of the A3 that leaked last month.
> 
> That pic is one of those rendered pics from early last year but it's not far off from the real deal. I hate the knew grill, its angled, and it's ugly, and Audi is making their cars look like copies of Hyundais and Fords which copied Aston Martin.
> 
> ...





BETOGLI said:


> Yeah man, I agree with you, but the pictures are renders since this car hasn't been released yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the previous white one is more of what to expect. Looking at the camouflaged ones you can sort of make out the headlights and the bumper. 

That Cabriolet one is using the current bumper and headlights so expect that to change. Still looks nice though :thumbup:


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Really liking the aggressive fender flares on the camo photos compared to the renderings. Hope they make it into production, reminds me of the old RS4 with the really beefy stance.


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## RS4pilot (Apr 19, 2000)

Looks like it's finally been confirmed

http://www.quattroworld.com/future-models/2018-audi-rs-3-sedan-confirmed/


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## robopp (Aug 5, 2012)

RS4pilot said:


> Looks like it's finally been confirmed
> 
> http://www.quattroworld.com/future-models/2018-audi-rs-3-sedan-confirmed/


Ha! I was just about to post this! I'm pumped!


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Simply amazing!


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

I hope they mass produce this like the S3 *cry*

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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

RS4pilot said:


> Looks like it's finally been confirmed
> 
> http://www.quattroworld.com/future-models/2018-audi-rs-3-sedan-confirmed/


2018 model year?! A whole another year?! 


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Canthoney said:


> 2018 model year?! A whole another year?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Just in time when many are turning in their S3's... 

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## RS4pilot (Apr 19, 2000)

First leaked photo?


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

Facelift is meh


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## RS4pilot (Apr 19, 2000)

high_octaneGTI said:


> Facelift is meh


Agreed . Audi's recent facelifts have been horrible


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

RS4pilot said:


> Agreed . Audi's recent facelifts have been horrible


We will probably get used to them soon.

I still remember when the latest 3 series came out, I thought it was extremely fugly. However, after a couple of years, I found them to be quite stylish looking.


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

Agreed. 

They should have kept the look inline with the A3 Clubsport Quattro Concept. 



















A3 Clubsport has a better lower body kit, and grill. 

The honeycomb grill on the RS3 looks cheap compared to the stacked fish scale like grill used on the A3 Clubsport Quattro Concept (and Audi Sport Quattro Concept)


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## tt-ho (May 26, 2011)

^^^ not to mention that wide body!

Gotta say, BMW did good job with the M2. It looks great with those agrresive fenders. Audi need to bring that back for the RS's :screwy:


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Dang lets wait for more pics with better angles...
Plus spec wise this will force BMW to bring out an M2.5 lol!

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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

scope213 said:


> Dang lets wait for more pics with better angles...
> Plus spec wise this will force BMW to bring out an M2.5 lol!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


If they do so they would need to go with a twin turbo instead as the ones they already have on their M3/M4 instead of the double scroll turbo they're using for the M2.

It's funny but I have read in some articles that the M2 comes with a single double scroll turbo and in other articles that it comes with a twin turbo, so at the end I'm not absolutely sure of their setup for the M2.

Because of the power delivered by the M2 which is 370 HP vs the 420 of a M3/M4 I guess the must just have a single double scroll turbo.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

scope213 said:


> Dang lets wait for more pics with better angles...
> Plus spec wise this will force BMW to bring out an M2.5 lol!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


If they do so they would need to go with a twin turbo instead as the ones they already have on their M3/M4 instead of the double scroll turbo they're using for the M2.

It's funny but I have read in some articles that the M2 comes with a single double scroll turbo and in other articles that it comes with a twin turbo, so at the end I'm not absolutely sure of their setup for the M2.

Because of the power delivered by the M2 which is 370 HP vs the 420 of a M3/M4 I guess the must just have a single double scroll turbo.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

RS4pilot said:


> Looks like it's finally been confirmed
> 
> http://www.quattroworld.com/future-models/2018-audi-rs-3-sedan-confirmed/


That is awesome news, thanks for posting. My M235 lease is up May 2017, so if the thing gets here fall of 2017 as a MY2018 that would be absolutely perfect for me. Can spend the summer borrowing one of dad's cars!


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> That is awesome news, thanks for posting. My M235 lease is up May 2017, so if the thing gets here fall of 2017 as a MY2018 that would be absolutely perfect for me. Can spend the summer borrowing one of dad's cars!


:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Anyone have any experience with swap lease or a similar site? Plan to try and get something free of charge from the Audi dealer to drive for a few months while I wait, but if not picking up a Miata or something for the summer might be fun. Concerned about turn in, unanticipated expense, basically unforeseen $$$$ out of my pocket. Could borrow dad's Allroad or 330ci but he likes driving both, don't want to steal his toys unless necessary.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> Anyone have any experience with swap lease or a similar site? Plan to try and get something free of charge from the Audi dealer to drive for a few months while I wait, but if not picking up a Miata or something for the summer might be fun. Concerned about turn in, unanticipated expense, basically unforeseen $$$$ out of my pocket. Could borrow dad's Allroad or 330ci but he likes driving both, don't want to steal his toys unless necessary.


No idea man, but I guess that if you're waiting for the RS3 to arrive to the USA it would be a year from now at the least for this to happen.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

BETOGLI said:


> No idea man, but I guess that if you're waiting for the RS3 to arrive to the USA it would be a year from now at the least for this to happen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right, my lease on the BMW is up May 15 2017, so what 15 months from now? I would be BEYOND excited if the RS3 got here in time for my birthday in August, but realistically probably fall 2017 would be when it's coming. Would have a 3-6 month gap between cars. Not sure if it's worth investigating swap lease, trying to extend the BMW, etc. All of this is obviously premature just trying to think through options.


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## madmac48 (Nov 27, 2014)

gamegenie said:


> Agreed.
> 
> They should have kept the look inline with the A3 Clubsport Quattro Concept.
> 
> ...


I have already in my head the 5 engine upgrades needed to bring an RS3 up to CS Quattro-1.Chip.2.Downpipe.3.Straight through exhaust.4.Cold air intake.5.Upgraded turbo.but I would be thinking of wider arches,and that may be much more $,say $20G total for the engine mods and then there is the CCB for another 10G.Still,if you want a compact 4 door 4WD sports sedan with 0-60 < 4 Sec what else is there out there? Nothing I can think of, and no hatches.I think Porsche have done enthusiasts a great disservice in going the SUV route in the pursuit of sales,as a small Compact sedan would have my attention,closest family of course being here at Audi.
Fall 2017 is my target date also,and choice TTRS or RS3.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

madmac48 said:


> I have already in my head the 5 engine upgrades needed to bring an RS3 up to CS Quattro-1.Chip.2.Downpipe.3.Straight through exhaust.4.Cold air intake.5.Upgraded turbo.but I would be thinking of wider arches,and that may be much more $,say $20G total for the engine mods and then there is the CCB for another 10G.Still,if you want a compact 4 door 4WD sports sedan with 0-60 < 4 Sec what else is there out there? Nothing I can think of, and no hatches.I think Porsche have done enthusiasts a great disservice in going the SUV route in the pursuit of sales,as a small Compact sedan would have my attention,closest family of course being here at Audi.
> Fall 2017 is my target date also,and choice TTRS or RS3.


TTRS will be a beast, no doubt. But the RS3 is just SOOOO much more practical. I tried getting my 10lb dog in and out of the back of a TTS and even that was a hassle. If you're cool with a 2-seat hatchback and just leave the back seats folded all the time, then the TT makes a lot more sense IMO. That's actually a reasonably useful configuration, again if you're cool with 2 seats. 

Slightly off topic, but I think we are entering a 3-4 year run of some awesome cars coming out. M2 and M4 GTS, we know Audi has a lot of awesome stuff in the pipeline. As Volvo rolls the big $ Chinese investments in the XC90 through the rest of the lineup they are going to have some great cars (looking forward to the XC60 quite a bit). New Boxster / Cayman platform. Benz has some cool stuff going on. That new Fiat Spider once they put the 4C Alfa engine in it next year should be a blast. Jag XE with the F-Type engine is a really nice car. 

At least from where I sit with everything getting bigger, it's a really nice change to have 3-4 very solid options in the small sports sedan / coupe category. M2, RS3, C43 AMG etc. Finally feels like $50-$60K gets you in the ballgame for something pretty awesome again.


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## davera3 (Jul 26, 2014)

BEM10001 said:


> Anyone have any experience with swap lease or a similar site? Plan to try and get something free of charge from the Audi dealer to drive for a few months while I wait, but if not picking up a Miata or something for the summer might be fun. Concerned about turn in, unanticipated expense, basically unforeseen $$$$ out of my pocket. Could borrow dad's Allroad or 330ci but he likes driving both, don't want to steal his toys unless necessary.


If you are leasing through Audi Financial, they do not allow full lease assumption, so you would still be on the hook if the person you swapped with defaulted.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> Right, my lease on the BMW is up May 15 2017, so what 15 months from now? I would be BEYOND excited if the RS3 got here in time for my birthday in August, but realistically probably fall 2017 would be when it's coming. Would have a 3-6 month gap between cars. Not sure if it's worth investigating swap lease, trying to extend the BMW, etc. All of this is obviously premature just trying to think through options.


Gotcha man! I thought your leasing was about to end in following few months; I think you have a great timing to jump into the first batch of Audi RS-3 coming to America. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

BETOGLI said:


> Gotcha man! I thought your leasing was about to end in following few months; I think you have a great timing to jump into the first batch of Audi RS-3 coming to America. :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will be first of the first at my dealer, put a deposit down last November and am #1 on the list! Also just scored myself a free Allroad to drive while I wait, assuming the RS3 is officially a go and coming next fall. Told Dad in exchange for borrowing his car (which I bought for him anyway) I will be getting him Stage 1 APR. That's a bit of a lie though, since I will be trying to take delivery of the all new Allroad the same day so we both get new toys.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Just left my dealership. He was at the meeting where the photo was leaked from. He was a little unsure of timing (Aug vs Sept vs Oct) but said the car is definitely green-lit and will be here fall of 2017. Let the waiting begin.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> Will be first of the first at my dealer, put a deposit down last November and am #1 on the list! Also just scored myself a free Allroad to drive while I wait, assuming the RS3 is officially a go and coming next fall. Told Dad in exchange for borrowing his car (which I bought for him anyway) I will be getting him Stage 1 APR. That's a bit of a lie though, since I will be trying to take delivery of the all new Allroad the same day so we both get new toys.


:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> Just left my dealership. He was at the meeting where the photo was leaked from. He was a little unsure of timing (Aug vs Sept vs Oct) but said the car is definitely green-lit and will be here fall of 2017. Let the waiting begin.


That's amazing!

Let's see how the new (and first of all) BMW M2 sells, I like it pretty much, but on the other hand the RS3 is coming to America.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

BETOGLI said:


> That's amazing!
> 
> Let's see how the new (and first of all) BMW M2 sells, I like it pretty much, but on the other hand the RS3 is coming to America.
> 
> ...


My BMW dealer is getting a demo, hope to drive the M2 soon. Love my M235, so if the M2 is better it's going to be a pretty sweet ride. That said there are some drawbacks in my opinion. Styling is a little flashy for my tastes, and the interior is nice but basically the same as what I have now so no "newness wow factor" for me. The only color I like is mineral grey which I have now, so again just a little too close to current to get me all that hot and bothered. 

I'd seriously consider one but I cannot do RWD again. Everything they are saying in the press though is that BMW knocked it out of the park on that one. Also unless you get a 2016 which is next to impossible at this stage and do a 2017 instead, you only get 3 years of maintenance and no brakes included (which could be an expensive job).


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah, since you already have a 235M and in the color you like the most (of the M2 color options) it might not be so appealing for you. The fact that it comes with the LSD and also has some M3/M4's bits like the brake system and suspension makes it pretty attractive IMO.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

BETOGLI said:


> Yeah, since you already have a 235M and in the color you like the most (of the M2 color options) it might not be so appealing for you. The fact that it comes with the LSD and also has some M3/M4's bits like the brake system and suspension makes it pretty attractive IMO.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't get me wrong, if I weren't a bit bored with mine and could get away with RWD I would DEFINITELY consider the M2. At the price, well under $60K fully loaded, it is a tremendous amount of car for the money. If the colors weren't just teal, black, white and grey I would definitely be more interested. That car in one of the old M-only colors, orange or yellow or a different blue, or even just red with black interior would look sick. 

The only downside I see on the RS3 is that they didn't go quite aggressive enough on the styling. M2 looks like the M235 on steroids but they're definitely in the same family. Wish the RS3 had gone a bit more aggressive a la the old RS4 with those huge fender flares for instance. That said there's a certain appeal to a visual "sleeper." The new virtual cockpit and all that stuff is going to be a huge interior improvement too. That thing is SICK.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

I totally agree with you, Audi and VW aren't making their tuff cars meaner... They almost look as the entry level models, they don't have any kind of wider elements.


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

Now that I see that there was video recorded of that RS3 unveiling event. I see more angles of the car and it is a wide as the A3 Clubsport Concept.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

gamegenie said:


> Now that I see that there was video recorded of that RS3 unveiling event. I see more angles of the car and it is a wide as the A3 Clubsport Concept.


Thanks for letting us know this!

I couldn't see this video through this link! 


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Could anyone who has the link to this video put it pretty please?


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

BETOGLI said:


> Could anyone who has the link to this video put it pretty please?



It should be working. It works when I play it. I was actually coming in here to post it but someone beat me to it. They did mention "wide body" so that's exciting. Still a little hard to tell from the video but the front does look a little wider. Unsure of the rear though if its truly wider. Rear does look nice and aggressive without being obnoxious like some of the aftermarket rear valences that companies have come out with. 


Here's the video again although I believe the first link is fine.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

-LoneStar- said:


> It should be working. It works when I play it. I was actually coming in here to post it but someone beat me to it. They did mention "wide body" so that's exciting. Still a little hard to tell from the video but the front does look a little wider. Unsure of the rear though if its truly wider. Rear does look nice and aggressive without being obnoxious like some of the aftermarket rear valences that companies have come out with.


I agree with you. The front does look wider. The large dual oval pipes are also extremely nice looking and integrated as part of the rear (like wrapped around by the valence).

It looks terrific. The facelift is also starting to grow on me. :thumbup:


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Don't get me wrong I like the A3/S3/RS3 looks, all of them. But swap the grilles and rims and they're borderline identical. Just wish they were more different - BMW got it right with the 2 IMO. They all look similar but with a nice step up as you go 228 to 235 with the front end, then again to M2.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Shhhhhhhhhh...  

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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

scope213 said:


> Shhhhhhhhhh...
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Thanks man! And the front fenders do look wider. I like the dual oval exhaust as well! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DW67 (May 27, 2006)

In the video he said aluminum engine. Does this mean an all new aluminum engine, or just heads? I've tried to find info, no luck.


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## DW67 (May 27, 2006)

From reviews, the 5 is powerful and sounds beautiful, but causes handling to suffer due to its weight. If they go all aluminum it should shed quite a bit of the undesirable weight in front of the front axle.


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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

It's sounding like an AL block, the current head is AL. Clearly this will be an improvement but the "07K" I5 is not _that_ heavy, ~60# more than the EA888 2.0T.


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## roadrunner_oz (Jul 30, 2015)

New AL 5 cylinder is 35kg lighter than the current one. The engine block is AL


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## Pathfinder2041 (Sep 20, 2003)

Any good shots of the interior??


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)




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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

jrwamp said:


>


R8 V6???


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

VWNCC said:


> R8 V6???


Yeah, I've heard that the base engine this time around is going to be a 6.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

jrwamp said:


>


Oh boy oh boy oh boy... I guess I know what I will be getting for my birthday in August! Is it just my small screen or does that "sedan" look a lot like a sport back though?


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

jrwamp said:


> Yeah, I've heard that the base engine this time around is going to be a 6.


Wow...the price better reflects that as well.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

BEM10001 said:


> Oh boy oh boy oh boy... I guess I know what I will be getting for my birthday in August! Is it just my small screen or does that "sedan" look a lot like a sport back though?


Haha yeah, lazy PowerPoint creation probably. Fire that intern.


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## fries_ahoy (Feb 22, 2012)

jrwamp said:


>



SQ7 and RS3 sedan released right around each other...it's like they know me...


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

jrwamp said:


>


Oh Lawd!! The A5/S5 sport back is coming?!! That basically confirms they will bring the RS4 over as an RS5 sport back! 


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## robopp (Aug 5, 2012)

I realize this is a stupid question and I guess I'm asking in the hope that I'm wrong, but the years on that scheduler are calendar years not model years, right? If so, why does it take a year and a half for the RS3 to show up? The M2 is imminent.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

robopp said:


> I realize this is a stupid question and I guess I'm asking in the hope that I'm wrong, but the years on that scheduler are calendar years not model years, right? If so, why does it take a year and a half for the RS3 to show up? The M2 is imminent.


So many reasons. Imo, one of them is it wouldn't make sense to bring out a new model to directly and simultaneously compete with the highly anticipated M2. Also, keep in mind these cars are not great money makers for the manufacturers...their sole purpose is to reinforce the "sport" or "racing heritage" of the brand. So wait a year or so and let the hype die down and then bam RS3!! And in turn BMW fanboys will complain on their forums why BMW hasn't responded with a 400+hp M2... 

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## Mcstiff (Feb 1, 2002)

jrwamp said:


> Yeah, I've heard that the base engine this time around is going to be a 6.


Typo, it should read I5. Stupid marketing interns!


:here's hoping:


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## Ryegor (Feb 26, 2008)

scope213 said:


> So many reasons. Imo, one of them is it wouldn't make sense to bring out a new model to directly and simultaneously compete with the highly anticipated M2. Also, keep in mind these cars are not great money makers for the manufacturers...their sole purpose is to reinforce the "sport" or "racing heritage" of the brand. So wait a year or so and let the hype die down and then bam RS3!! And in turn BMW fanboys will complain on their forums why BMW hasn't responded with a 400+hp M2...


Plus the facelift.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Ryegor said:


> Plus the facelift.


The facelift has a lot to do with it, and they are also rarely on the same schedule. CLA 45 came out when the A3 / S3 was first launched, and really didn't have a direct competitor until the M2 came out a few years later. By the time the RS3 gets here the Benz should be do for a refresh. Audi also typically does A first, S 6-12 months later then RS after that as well.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

VWNCC said:


> R8 V6???


Dude,

I thought the same thing! LOL


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## madcowz (Jan 9, 2002)

BETOGLI said:


> Dude,
> 
> I thought the same thing! LOL


If its good enough for F1.........


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

In the not to distant future it's gonna be a 4 cylinder with a giant battery... 

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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

scope213 said:


> In the not to distant future it's gonna be a 4 cylinder with a giant battery...
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


LOL


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

BETOGLI said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Some of the hybrid super car stuff McLaren, Porsche and others are doing is pretty sexy stuff. Will definitely trickle down in the future.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Ryegor said:


> Plus the facelift.


Is there any confirmation of when the A3/S3 will get their facelift?

I had heard 2017 MY (this summer), but I'm getting nervous. I REALLY want android auto in my S3, and they've been dragging on that. I'm all ready to order as soon as it's confirmed (and they confirm they aren't ditching the retractable screen like they did on the B9 A4).


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

VWNCC said:


> Wow...the price better reflects that as well.


Like the price of the 911 Turbo?


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> Some of the hybrid super car stuff McLaren, Porsche and others are doing is pretty sexy stuff. Will definitely trickle down in the future.


Yeah man, I know about this tendency of powerful hybrid super cars like the Porsche 918; even though I find it funny to see it, just as the announcement of the R8 V6.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

araemo said:


> Is there any confirmation of when the A3/S3 will get their facelift?
> 
> I had heard 2017 MY (this summer), but I'm getting nervous. I REALLY want android auto in my S3, and they've been dragging on that. I'm all ready to order as soon as it's confirmed (and they confirm they aren't ditching the retractable screen like they did on the B9 A4).


You really like the screen that much? I was never a huge fan and the virtual cockpit in the TTS I drove a few months back was insanely cool. Kind of sucks for the passenger I guess if they want to do anything like change music but who cares about them anyway.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> You really like the screen that much? I was never a huge fan and the virtual cockpit in the TTS I drove a few months back was insanely cool.


I drove an Audi Q7 a few weeks ago and did like the virtual cockpit pretty much. I saw the Audi TT-S at the Dealership and did like its virtual cockpit as well.



BEM10001 said:


> Kind of sucks for the passenger I guess if they want to do anything like change music but who cares about them anyway.


LOL, I thought the same thing!


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

BEM10001 said:


> You really like the screen that much? I was never a huge fan and the virtual cockpit in the TTS I drove a few months back was insanely cool. Kind of sucks for the passenger I guess if they want to do anything like change music but who cares about them anyway.


I like it a hell of a lot better than the ugly fixed screen in the B9 A4. And yes, I would be getting virutal cockpit as well if it's available. (Virtual cockpit doesn't remove the center screen, the TT just doesn't have the center screen. A4/S4 with virtual cockpit still also have the center console screen)


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

araemo said:


> I like it a hell of a lot better than the ugly fixed screen in the B9 A4. And yes, I would be getting virutal cockpit as well if it's available. (Virtual cockpit doesn't remove the center screen, the TT just doesn't have the center screen. A4/S4 with virtual cockpit still also have the center console screen)


Oh I thought it was all going the TT route. I have a 2015 Allroad I guess that is the screen you are talking about.

Personally I want minimal screens, buttons, knobs, everything. Speedo, Tach, Temp Gauge and climate controls. Stereo controls and that's about all I need.


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## Baylorguy (Aug 18, 2012)

Definitely exciting time ahead. Oh the choices I will have in 4 years


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## Zoominrex (Mar 25, 2010)

Is it normal that Audi cashed my 5k deposit when the car is not even due for release for another 18 months?


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## India Whiskey Charlie (Feb 15, 2006)

Zoominrex said:


> Is it normal that Audi cashed my 5k deposit when the car is not even due for release for another 18 months?


Audi doesn't cash deposits, dealers do. And yes, if you gave them a check, they'll cash it. I mean, what else do you think they should do with it?


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## LostWaldo (Mar 1, 2008)

Zoominrex said:


> Is it normal that Audi cashed my 5k deposit when the car is not even due for release for another 18 months?



My dealership said they won't even begin accepting deposits until Audi opens up builds for it. They also had said that RS car orders are basically awarded to dealerships depending on their ranking and previous sale figures, so they don't know how many slots they'll get until 6-8 months before the launch.
They can do the normal dealer to dealer trades to get additional slots, but I'm not so sure on giving a dealership money for a car that they might not even get on the initial inventory until I know they can secure a build slot.


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## lilmira (Feb 4, 2014)

Most dealerships will take deposit for anything. All it does is to hold a spot for ordering when it does become available. You can probably put down a deposit for the next RS3, don't think they care much. 5k is a bit much though, 1k is the norm I think.

If it's around the same money, I'd rather go through less hoops and get the M2. While the 5-cyclinder engine is nice, the reviews haven't been kind about the handling.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Guys guys relax! 

Making a 5K deposit for a car not even officially announced in the U.S..... Sigh! All you're doing is putting yourself in a major disadvantage when the car does eventually arrive leaving you very little if any room for negotiating. On top of that the deal will be so bad you'll walk away but due to other maniacs making premature 5K deposits dealers will assume demand is super high and mark up the prices 10%+ and the rest of us would have to wait for 6 months so it can cool down. Stop going to the dealers starting up another Golf R frenzy fest... haven't you learned? 

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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

scope213 said:


> Guys guys relax!
> 
> Making a 5K deposit for a car not even officially announced in the U.S..... Sigh! All you're doing is putting yourself in a major disadvantage when the car does eventually arrive leaving you very little if any room for negotiating. On top of that the deal will be so bad you'll walk away but due to other maniacs making premature 5K deposits dealers will assume demand is super high and mark up the prices 10%+ and the rest of us would have to wait for 6 months so it can cool down. Stop going to the dealers starting up another Golf R frenzy fest... haven't you learned?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


First of all, $5K is insane. I have $500 down and I get the first one at my dealer. They do run it on your card or whatever you use for payment but you can always get a refund. Besides that, just ensure your deal is "at MSRP or better" as mine is. If you want or need one of the early cars, you're not getting a huge discount but you can protect yourself against the "market adjustment" bull**** that some M2 buyers are dealing with. I will be without a car starting May 2017, so I want the first one I can get my hands on. Best case scenario it's eligible for ACNA discount and you get 6%. Worst case, you pay MSRP and take advantage of whatever they have going at the time that's not car specific like conquest, owner loyalty, etc. 

Yeah yeah yeah, waiting is good and it saves you money and all that jazz. But if you don't want to wait or cannot for whatever reason, at least protect yourself. Assuming we are talking a $55K car here, even $60K, what's the difference in people's minds between a good deal and a bad deal? Keep in mind this is an RS and not an A, so they're not going to be blowing them out below invoice. That said, ACNA (if it works) gets you 6% off or $4600? A smoking deal would be what, 10% off? That's not happening withing 12 months of launch. So wait forever to save $2400? No thanks. I am not about throwing money away but really it's not that big a deal. What would be WAY WORSE financially is getting into something short term while waiting 18-24 months for the prices on RS to come down, if they ever do.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

lilmira said:


> Most dealerships will take deposit for anything. All it does is to hold a spot for ordering when it does become available. You can probably put down a deposit for the next RS3, don't think they care much. 5k is a bit much though, 1k is the norm I think.
> 
> If it's around the same money, I'd rather go through less hoops and get the M2. While the 5-cyclinder engine is nice, the reviews haven't been kind about the handling.


The M2 is going to be an amazing car - possibly better than the RS3 if we are honest. I'd get one in a second but 1. I need AWD and 2. it's a little too close to my current M235 to not get bored. Would have to get same color combo and everything because grey is the only one I like, and it only comes with black leather (same as I have now). Truth be told the car looks a hell of a lot better to me than the RS3, at least based on comparing M235 in person to S3 in person, and M2 in person to RS3 leaked images. 

There really aren't a whole lot of options out there, the CLA 45 is garbage. I also kind of want 4 doors.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> The M2 is going to be an amazing car - possibly better than the RS3 if we are honest. I'd get one in a second but 1. I need AWD and 2. it's a little too close to my current M235 to not get bored. Would have to get same color combo and everything because grey is the only one I like, and it only comes with black leather (same as I have now). Truth be told the car looks a hell of a lot better to me than the RS3, at least based on comparing M235 in person to S3 in person, and M2 in person to RS3 leaked images.
> 
> There really aren't a whole lot of options out there, the CLA 45 is garbage. I also kind of want 4 doors.


I'm sorry dude the M235 is heinous; many bmw fan boys attest to that. And the S3 is a much better looking sports car compared to the M235. Lol, to each its own. 

M2 definitely looks nice, though. About it being a better car...lets just wait for the RS3 sedan with 400+ hp arrives on our shores before making that call. ;D



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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

scope213 said:


> I'm sorry dude the M235 is heinous; many bmw fan boys attest to that. And the S3 is a much better looking sports car compared to the M235. Lol, to each its own.
> 
> M2 definitely looks nice, though. About it being a better car...lets just wait for the RS3 sedan with 400+ hp arrives on our shores before making that call. ;D
> 
> ...


Cosmetics are purely personal preference, not going to get on anyone one way or the other for an opinion. At least the BMW is a major step up from the 1-series, that I will agree is disgusting. 

You're right, gotta drive both back to back to really see. That said regardless the RS3 will be a better car for me, which is why I am getting one. I drove the sport back already and really, really liked it. If the sedan is as good or better it will be an amazing car. M2 isn't even in the consideration set for me since it meets none of my current needs, so it doesn't really matter. Taking dad's allroad when he's done with it, so a few years out the M2 may be a viable option. But not now.


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## Baylorguy (Aug 18, 2012)

Put me down as another vote for how absolutely ugly the M235i is. Its rear... just... barf! When I see one it always looks like it is right in the middle of taking a dump. I am biased of course since I have an S3, but to me there is absolutely no comparison :laugh:

The M2 is a crazy good car, but I would go RS3 all the way.


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## MathildaS3 (Apr 14, 2015)

What he said. ^


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Baylorguy said:


> Put me down as another vote for how absolutely ugly the M235i is. Its rear... just... barf! When I see one it always looks like it is right in the middle of taking a dump. I am biased of course since I have an S3, but to me there is absolutely no comparison :laugh:
> 
> The M2 is a crazy good car, but I would go RS3 all the way.


Well I think the S3 is boring as hell. RS3 isn't going to look significantly better, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Anyway to each their own. Neither are "bad" cars.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> Well I think the S3 is boring as hell. RS3 isn't going to look significantly better, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Anyway to each their own. Neither are "bad" cars.


Till this day people still pull me over to ask about my S3 or give me thumbs up. And most importantly the women dig it. 

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## hassenrennen (Jan 5, 2004)

The thing is...BMW is starting to look "Japanese" on the front of their cars. Like the old Wings West or Kaminari body kits from the mid 90's. With all the crazy angles and intakes like the M2...they are looking more outrageous. Audi is at least keeping it modern and sleek looking.

http://www.carid.com/2002-honda-civic-body-kits/

http://www.carid.com/2002-honda-civic-body-kits/ait-racing-body-kits-15865924.html


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

scope213 said:


> Till this day people still pull me over to ask about my S3 or give me thumbs up. And most importantly the women dig it.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


We must be running with different sorts of women...


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

hassenrennen said:


> The thing is...BMW is starting to look "Japanese" on the front of their cars. Like the old Wings West or Kaminari body kits from the mid 90's. With all the crazy angles and intakes like the M2...they are looking more outrageous. Audi is at least keeping it modern and sleek looking.
> 
> http://www.carid.com/2002-honda-civic-body-kits/
> 
> http://www.carid.com/2002-honda-civic-body-kits/ait-racing-body-kits-15865924.html


Not looking to argue aesthetics that's purely personal preference. Just nostalgic for the old RS4 look with the huge fender flares. The A3/S3 is a nice enough looking car, just wish the RS3 had a little extra "extra" if that makes any sense v


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

They should have just stuck with the clubsport concept design


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

Can anyone confirm that it will indeed be wider? In the video it is mentioned and I quote " with a wider body". Don't know if that means simply a wider track with the wheels pushed out or actual body panels. It sounds like a true wider body fender bulge. The 7 speed dsg is a necessity. I feel the S3 needs a 7th gear now. Hopefully the all aluminum motor will help with the handling aspect the old rs3 has been critiqued of. 

Also the 2 series BMW looks awful from the rear. The front and down the sides look fantastic. It's like they had their A Team design the front 3/4's and then sent in some Bush League Shmuck group to do the last 1/4. I know looks are subjective but come on not even BMW loyalist can truly say that they nailed it 100%. Hell they didn't get it 75% right.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

BEM10001 said:


> We must be running with different sorts of women...


L.A.women are pretty tough to impress...maybe it's the sepang blue, lol. ;D

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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

BEM10001 said:


> Well I think the S3 is boring as hell. RS3 isn't going to look significantly better, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Anyway to each their own. Neither are "bad" cars.


S3 ain't bad but the A3 is yawwwnn to me.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> S3 ain't bad but the A3 is yawwwnn to me.


Wow, you guys have very high standards...

I found the Golf 1.8 T and A3 1.8T quite good...

I like the GTI as it is powerful and then I like the A3 2.0T quattro even more as it is pretty much a GTI with AWD to me...

then of course Golf R and S3 even better....and no doubt RS3 will be king...


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

you're right, A3 is far from being a yawn. The 1.8T model is faster than an Lexus IS-250 V6. 

The 2.0T A3 is literally just only *1 second* slower than the 2.0T S3 in 0-60.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

gamegenie said:


> The 2.0T A3 is literally just only *1 second* slower than the 2.0T S3 in 0-60.


Yes, and the 2 liter 4 cylinder turbo charged Audi S3 is only 1 second slower than the twin-turbo 4 liter V8 AMG C63s. And just 2 seconds slower than the twin-turbo 3.9 liter V8 Ferrari 488GTB. 



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## robopp (Aug 5, 2012)

gamegenie said:


> you're right, A3 is far from being a yawn. The 1.8T model is faster than an Lexus IS-250 V6.
> 
> The 2.0T A3 is literally just only *1 second* slower than the 2.0T S3 in 0-60.


Which is 17% quicker. That's a pretty big difference.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

robopp said:


> Which is 17% quicker. That's a pretty big difference.


I don't think he is trying to say that the S3 isn't a lot faster than the A3 2.0T quattro. His point is that the S3 is so quick that the A3 2.0T quattro, while being 1s slower, is already a lot quicker than many many cars in the class, so it isn't "yawn".


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

VWNCC said:


> I don't think he is trying to say that the S3 isn't a lot faster than the A3 2.0T quattro. His point is that the S3 is so quick that the A3 2.0T quattro, while being 1s slower, is already a lot quicker than many many cars in the class, so it isn't "yawn".


To be clear I meant the styling was boring, not the handling. The S3 is a very nice car. I drove one a while back and then had my Audi dealer get in my M235 and take it for a spin. We agreed my BMW was a better handling car, especially considering it leases SOOOO much better. That said the RS3 will spank both of them. The A3 is fine for what it is, but it's not in the same league as the other cars we are discussing here.


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## madcowz (Jan 9, 2002)

high_octaneGTI said:


> They should have just stuck with the clubsport concept design


Exactly


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