# Should i be worried about ghetto wiring?



## PMLyf (Apr 18, 2011)

This is my first vw. been driving it for about 3-4 months now and the previous owners toyed around with the wiring. Im just wondering which parts i should address first to keep her running.

#1. Ignition hardwired to the battery and a button. If i turn the key, the car doesnt start and the electrical systems turn off. Almost seems like an alarm issue, maybe a security feature being bypassed?

One lead at the battery that goes through the firewall to the button.









Then one lead that goes back to the starter from the button.








Starter:

















Heh, i wish that was the only problem. Yesterday my hose flange blew up and left me stranded about 30 miles from home with coolant all over the ground.
Old:

















New one installed: 











My theory is that the pressure in the head or the line was too great for the flange since my coolant was so hot. My fans havent been working for a while, and when they did it was still off and on. The people before me had the fans power (red wire on the fan harness for the fan motor) wired directly to the fuse box:
The black wire shoved into the green fuses leads. 









Today i tried to solder it, but fail, and my fans still dont work. Im afraid to drive again and this being worse next time.









a bypass would help, ill get on searching for that in a moment. I only have tomorrow left to borrow the car from mum =[

Also, something i didnt get a picture of since my trunk no longer opens with the key i have, i never could get the air lock hoses connected once i replaced the trunk. Thinking that might be the power lock problem right there, either that or the motor. This car has been beat into the ground by the previous owner. Its going to take me alot to get her back in shape!


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

im going to make a prediction that it has a bad ignition (starter button fixes that)switch, and either a bad fan relay, or a bad fuseable link for the fan, or maybe even a bad thermostat switch for the fan (ghetto rigged fan wiring)

i would get a test light, digital multi meter, and a wiring diagram. they do wonders..

with those tools, i fixed my cooling fan. fuseable link was bad. cut it out and soldered in a fuse holder so i could easily replace it..


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## PMLyf (Apr 18, 2011)

Glegor said:


> im going to make a prediction that it has a bad ignition (starter button fixes that)switch, and either a bad fan relay, or a bad fuseable link for the fan, or maybe even a bad thermostat switch for the fan (ghetto rigged fan wiring)
> 
> i would get a test light, digital multi meter, and a wiring diagram. they do wonders..
> 
> with those tools, i fixed my cooling fan. fuseable link was bad. cut it out and soldered in a fuse holder so i could easily replace it..


Going to sneak those on to my moms grocery list! Im going to try to buy a fan harness for $45 off here from someone this weekend, think its a fair price?

Should i be driving it without the fans running? Ive drove that way for a month or two before this happened, but worried that the engine might over heat. Dont want to mess up the new head i just put on there.


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## Seax_Smith (Jun 1, 2007)

You have some work ahead of you.

Had a different set of ghetto rigs on my current daily, but basically the same head aches.

Fans first: 
I deleted my AC so I went with the stock fan wiring for a non AC car. It's really simple.
larger gauge red/white coming out of the fuse relay panel to the switch in the fan (stock wire, which also tangles up with the AC relay which can be deleted if you delete the AC).

there are 2 other wires on the rad switch, run those to the fan in stock locations (forgetting colors off the top of my head)

then ground the fan to the body.

I was able to find spade connectors which I used on the fan pins.

THis keeps teh after run and everything intact and minimizes the system down to the bare essentails. 

Might be an option for you. Make the fans reliable. and when you finish the other stuff go back and rewire as stock for the AC if you want. THis is just a simple effeective solution which could be permanent if you wanted.

Ignition stuff:

Bet you need to replace your ignition switch which isn't the most fun, but not actually all that hard.

After you get teh fans reliably operational, I would start testing the ignition sysmtem to see where the faults are that teh PO bypassed, and acquire all the parts before extratracting the ghetto rig. Also take very good notes on how the ghetto rig is installed just incase you need to reistall it while you get more new parts.

What I had to do with my car was pretty much a wire by wire trace using both bentley current flow diagrams and http://www.a2resource.com/

Ended up with a lot of detailed sketches and ended up with a worded-out-shcematic for my car.

example:
rad fan switch:
pin x - red/white to xx/xx fuse relay panal plug
pin y - color to pin ? on rad fan
pin z - color to pin ? on rad fan

Eneded up doing this for practically every applience, connector et al and company in the forward harnesses, including the digi harness. Was a pain, but well worth the effort. So, now, I have a section in a three ring binder that details the wiring to each appliance / wire, which makes makes diagnois now a very easy thing.

So I would do the fans first to reliable, if not back to stock.

Then map out how the starter circuitry is supose to be in the car, wire by wire, pin by pin if necessary and be sure I had everything before touching the ghetto rig.

then as I extracted the ghettoed starter button, I would take very ccareful notes incase I needed to reinstall it for some reason

Then I would work on getting into the trunk by removing the back seat.

Hope this helps (and you didn't need a lysdexic to english translotor to read this)

Good luck.

Post Script:
this thread may help with the fans: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5364466-Fan-Wiring


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## PMLyf (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks alot! When i pulled the electrical tape off of the fan harness it looked like the wire they used got ate up/melted. Maybe not high enough gauge? What gauge do you recommend for that high of voltage?? Im going to work on getting them reliable tomorrow so I can at least still drive her. The fans are my biggest worry since its my daily, id rather it not blow up in my face 30 mi or farther away from home again than be able to access my trunk for a while. Funny though, ive drove the car on a 300mi trip with no problems and less than a whole tank of gas used. Although i now have a warped break disk after that.


Many thanks! And no, your English is legible! I actually am using your idea right now, printing out your post and some diagrams and putting them in a binder for tomorrow and future work!


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## Seax_Smith (Jun 1, 2007)

not a problem.... glad it was legiable.

On the fans in my car I uses 14 gauge. 12 would be a bit over kill, but it is worth the peace of mind if you need it.

If you really need the fan to run. get a 30 amp inline fuse holder from radio shack and attach it to the positive terminal of the battery anbd pull the fuse. Run a wire up into the the dash and attacha toggle switch rated for 30 amps. run a wire from the swtiched side of the switch to the low speed fan pin (high speed if you want). and the ground the fan to the body. reinstal fuse once the circuit is complete.

THis will give you manual control of you fan so when you temp gauge goes up you can switch on the fan. Just remeber to turn it off when you park the car. 

A relayed circuit would be better, but as a temp fix for a few days, it will be fine. stock system is 30 amps, so use 14 gauge minimum, 30 amp fume and a 30 amp switch or 12 gauge and 30 amp fuse and 40 amp switch to cover you butt.

Know someone who got tired of dealing with the fan switch in the radiator and built a relay circuit to power the fan when ever the car is on. Little on the extreme side, but it does work.

keep in mind that rewiring a circuit to be practical, effective and permanent does not have to be ghetto, even if it is non-stock. The difference being that permanent non-stock fixes are done well with the appropreate materials and documented.

Your starter botton is probably wired the same way. power from the battery to the button. push the button and power goes to pin 50 on the starter. At least that is the usual ghetto bypass to a faulty ingnition switch


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

12 gauge is not too small.. thats what i used on my fan and it makes it run faster..


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## PMLyf (Apr 18, 2011)

Alright, i got the 30 amp inline fuse holder, 30 amp fuse, 50 amp switch and 12 gauge wire. 









Question, how would i go about this operation if the wires to the fan are destroyed all the way down to the plug?










And if possible, can i have 2 switches? 1 for high speed fan and one for low? Id rather hook up the high speed fan first then the low when i go get another switch and fuse.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

proper way would have been to use a relay, and control it with the switch, rather than run the power thru the switch..

relays handle much more current. my glow plugs, and fan are both relay controlled.. they do it factory for a reason..


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## TheBurninator (Jan 7, 2009)

SlzzyDzzy said:


> Question, how would i go about this operation if the wires to the fan are destroyed all the way down to the plug?


The proper way to fix this is to depin it and put in new wire with new pins.


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## PMLyf (Apr 18, 2011)

Glegor said:


> proper way would have been to use a relay, and control it with the switch, rather than run the power thru the switch..
> 
> relays handle much more current. my glow plugs, and fan are both relay controlled.. they do it factory for a reason..



Its a temporary fix, and im not sure where to get an inline relay holder if there is one out there. 



TheBurninator said:


> The proper way to fix this is to depin it and put in new wire with new pins.


Not sure how to do that, any special tools needed? Im guessing ill need new pins for it aswell.


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## TheBurninator (Jan 7, 2009)

SlzzyDzzy said:


> Its a temporary fix, and im not sure where to get an inline relay holder if there is one out there.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how to do that, any special tools needed? Im guessing ill need new pins for it aswell.


Depinning tool and crimpers would be a start. The dealer sells new connectors as well as pins and prewired pins as well so you just need to splice them in.


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## PMLyf (Apr 18, 2011)

So i connected the fuse to the battery, than ran a wire from the fuse and the fans into the car to the switch. Flipped it on and fans came on!




































But now the car wont start, seems im going to have to rewire the starter button since they looked pretty fried. Also i think the PO used speaker wire for this...


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## Seax_Smith (Jun 1, 2007)

You know you are installing temp fixes. You are going about it the right way for short term, temp fixes, over gauging everything. With a daily you need, step one is make it work safely. Step two is make it work safely the smart way (which is usually dupicating stock configuration or there abouts.)

You short term fan fix would be better with a relay as I suggested when I mentioned it, and others have mentioned. Then again the quick fix you have in is safe and reliable and will allow you to address the other immediate things and still be driving the car.

The image of you fan connector shows a fan plug which should be replaced, don't waste time and money on it.

Would also suggest you completely unplug it, run the wire from the toggle switch directly to the fan with a spade connector and instal a ground wire from the fan to the body. cleans up the circuit a little bit and gets the sketchy fan plug out of the way so it can't cause issues.

Your starter button can be done the same way you did the fan: battery->fuse->switch-> pin 50 on the solenoid. this circuit doesn't draw all that much power so 16 gauge and a 10 amp fuse would be fine. Again, a relayed circuit is better, but if it is only going to be in the car a few days to a week, it willl be fine so long as you connections are good and insulated well where they need to be.

Inline relay holders aren't absolutely necessary, You can use insulated female spade connectors for the relay connections.

Fan on my car as insulated female spade connectors instead of the stock plug. I have also added 6 realys to my electrical system.

Looking at teh images you posted, you basicaly have 2 good options. Go to the local yard and pull a good set of not hacked up harnesses or learn a bit about replicating the harnesses that should be in your car.

Basically, what you are doing right now is getting the ghetto out of the temp fixes. The way you dealt with the no fan option will work indefinately IF YOU GET IT GROUNDED WELL AND GET THAT SKETCHY PLUG OUT OF THE CIRCUIT. Relayed would be better, but wired strait will work if the connections are good and insulated as the should be AND YOU GET A SOLID GROUND TO THE FAN. Don't worry about your low speed fan. Run your high speed fan wired 'hot' and work on the ingtion system, then go back and deal with the fans. 

You probably only need an ignition switch which is fairly inexpensive but not fun and time consuming to put in. THen trace the wires to make sure you dont find any unpleasnt surprises when you turn the key.

[PS: Same fuse holder I have for my low beam relay, inner high beams, outer high beams and fog light relays.]


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## PMLyf (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks for taking the time to share this precious information! Tomorrow i have about 5 or 6 hours to dedicate entirely to fixing the ignition wiring. I wont be buying that ignition switch just yet, it will have to stay as is, but i will rewire it with the stronger 12 gauge and put some real wire clamps on there instead of squeezing them together as they are currently. Hopefully Saturday i can order the fan harness and go get a new relay and put the fans back to OEM condition. But this will have to do till next week when the harness ships.


I have 1 more day to borrow a ride, then im on my own. Tomorrow is the day to get this taken care of, id stay up late tonight but my neighbors dont like hearing my alarm go off every time i have to unplug the battery due to the car not starting and ceasing up all electrical components. Still thinking that has something to do with the alarm, but ill get to that later.


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