# Humming Noise In Front End



## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

I have a humming noise coming from the front end of my 2004 W12. I only notice the noise at highway speeds and it appears to only be audible when I turn the wheel to the right. For example, when travelling on the highway and the road bends slightly to the right or when I move into the right lane, I hear a faint hum coming from the wheel(s). I started hearing the hum a few days ago but dismissed it as a symptom of my Phaeton Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (POCD). While driving to and from DC last night on a night out with my wife, she commented on the presence of the hum as well.

I just had the LF wheel bearing replaced 2 weeks ago. Here are some possibilities I'v thought of:

RF wheel bearing
Low Power Steering Fuild
Other Steering Problems (leaking rack)

Any ideas? On a related note, where do you check the power steering fluid level? I can't seem to find the reservoir.

Bobby


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Is the noise speed-related? If so, a wheel bearing seems likely, if not, it could be the power steering pump.

Harry


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## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

Prince Ludwig said:


> Is the noise speed-related? If so, a wheel bearing seems likely, if not, it could be the power steering pump.
> 
> Harry


The honest answer is I don't know whether its speed-related or not. Yes, I only notice it at speed, but that doesn't mean that it's not there when I'm driving at around-town speeds. It may be too quiet for me to hear. 

Yes, the symtoms seem to point to the wheel bearing, but there is one factor that is present now that wasn't before I had the LF wheel bearing replaced; the fact that the hum really isn't there (or is significantly reduced) when I have the wheel turned to the left. 

Bobby


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Bobby:

I think that the evidence points to a wheel bearing problem. The W12 car is heavy, and the wheel bearings don't last forever. Normally, they are replaced in pairs (front pair or rear pair). I have about 50,000 miles on my W12 and replaced both front wheel bearings at 35,000 miles.

Best suggestion I can offer is that you focus your investigation on the wheel bearing. You can rule out the power steering pump by simply turning the steering wheel back and forth when the car is not moving (i.e. parked) and listening to see if the noise appears.

Michael


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## W12mike (Apr 13, 2005)

The tires can also cause noise.

I guess the best way of diagnosing the tires, would be to fit some other wheels at the front,
just to test if it make any difference on the noise.

I fyou have a spare wheel you could test and listen.......


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## hyder5614 (Jan 22, 2010)

*humming noise*

Inspect the inner cv boot, close to transmission. It is Hidden under the cover. Most likely is the culprit. Loss of grease causes joint to produce bearing like roaring noise


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## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> Hi Bobby:
> 
> I think that the evidence points to a wheel bearing problem. The W12 car is heavy, and the wheel bearings don't last forever. Normally, they are replaced in pairs (front pair or rear pair). I have about 50,000 miles on my W12 and replaced both front wheel bearings at 35,000 miles.
> 
> ...


Michael,

Is replacing _both_ front wheel bearings (rather than just one) the official VW recommendation? I ask this because when I take my car in to my dealer to have them look at this, I _know_ that if the culprit ends up being the RF wheel bearing, they'll want to charge me for an hour of diag time ($75) in addition to my $100 deductible (Platinum Warranty). The problem is, as I mentioned above, I already payed an hour of diag time and my deductible for them to replace the LF bearing 3 weeks ago. So if they try to pull this on me, I'd like to be able to come back and say, "I'm not paying a dime for this repair because, according to VW procedures, you were supposed to have replaced the RF bearing along with my LF bearing 3 weeks ago."

Bobby


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

I don't think it is a VW recommendation to replace both bearings, I think it is just common 'best industry practice' in the automotive world.

It is reasonable that your dealer charged you a diagnostic fee to find the source of a prior problem (the wheel bearing that you replaced), assuming that neither you or the technician had any idea what was causing the noise in the first place. However, if you go back to the dealer and say "Listen, I think the wheel bearing on the other side might also need replacing", I don't think that a service facility would charge you a diagnostic charge to have a look at a specific part (i.e. you ask them to evaluate the condition of the other front wheel bearing) and determine if it needs to be replaced - most especially if you then ask them to carry out the replacement if needed.

'Diagnostic Fees' are reasonable whenever a fair amount of time needs to be taken to find the cause of a problem. A dealer with good business sense will not charge a diagnostic fee to a repeat customer to evaluate a specifically named part to determine if it is satisfactory or not, unless it takes a heck of a long time to evaluate that part. It does not take a heck of a long time to evaluate a wheel bearing.

Michael


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

W12mike said:


> The tires can also cause noise.
> 
> I guess the best way of diagnosing the tires, would be to fit some other wheels at the front,
> just to test if it make any difference on the noise.
> ...


I too would recommend trying to rule out the tires first.

I remember chasing down a noise on my Mercedes. 

After replacing a few wheel bearings... it turned out to be the tires.

The tires weren't that old or worn looking either.


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## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

Auzivision said:


> I too would recommend trying to rule out the tires first.
> 
> I remember chasing down a noise on my Mercedes.
> 
> ...


While the problem very well may be the tires, I'm going to pursue the wheel bearing first because that variable seems to be more likely (being that I just had the LF one replaced and not the RF, and due to the similar symptoms) and easier to address. 

Bobby


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## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> I don't think it is a VW recommendation to replace both bearings, I think it is just common 'best industry practice' in the automotive world.
> 
> It is reasonable that your dealer charged you a diagnostic fee to find the source of a prior problem (the wheel bearing that you replaced), assuming that neither you or the technician had any idea what was causing the noise in the first place. However, if you go back to the dealer and say "Listen, I think the wheel bearing on the other side might also need replacing", I don't think that a service facility would charge you a diagnostic charge to have a look at a specific part (i.e. you ask them to evaluate the condition of the other front wheel bearing) and determine if it needs to be replaced - most especially if you then ask them to carry out the replacement if needed.
> 
> ...


Michael,

Thanks for the insight. I'm taking my Phaeton in to the dealer on Friday afternoon to have them look at it. If it is the bearing and they need to order the part (which I'm sure they will), then the follow up appointment should coincide with my completing the dual xenon retrofit. Then I can have them replace the bearing and align the headlights during the same visit.

Bobby


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

Hi, 

Couple days ago I had a humming noise coming out of from a front left side (near front left wheel) while driving and while parked. Nose changed louder on a little throttle (1k rpm). Nosi changed when steering wheel was being turned left/right. 

It came out that there was a power steering oil leak, and oil level was too low. 

Added some oil to power steering pump(?) and noise was gone. 
Now waiting for one snorkel to be delivered and changed. Damaged snorkel was an oil leak cause. 

Ed.


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## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

Well, 

I took my car in to the dealership on Friday afternoon to have them investigate the humming. However, before I did so, I noticed that my front tires were very low on air. So, on my way back from a business appointment in VA, I stopped at Costco in Winchester and had the tire tech bring my tire pressure back up to spec (42 front, 48 rear). I think my fronts were close to 30 psi prior to getting topped off. On a side note, the Costco tech commented that it was odd for the front factory tire pressure spec to be significantly lower than the rears. Anyone know why this is? 

Anyway, after the pressure boost my humming noise seemed to all but go away on the highway. It was significantly reduced. I almost called the dealership and cancelled the appointment, but then figured that I'd still bring the car in to be safe. 

At the dealer, the VW tech looked at the car, drove it, and found no issues with the wheel bearing or anything else for that matter. He suggested that the low-grade noise may just be a result of the Conti Sport tires that are on the car. As one who prefers the manners of an all-season grand touring tire, I've suspected ever since I purchased the car that some of the road noise is a product of these sportier tires. I realize there are strong opinions on the forum about sport vs all-season. I'm pretty sure that I'll put either Michelin MXM4s or Turanzas on the car when my current rubber wear out. 

Ed (or anyone else), where do you check the power steering fluid level on the car? I looked in my VW service manual and found the drawing that shows the reservoir and dipstick but doesn't tell you where they are located. Are they under the plastic shield around the engine? I'd like to check the fluid leve just so I can rule this out, especially in light of Ed's post above. 

Bobby


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Tires and noise*

i have had "running" noises in both my Phaeton and my Touareg. The noises were, to me, less than trivial and requiring attention. The Phaeton especially, is such a refined car that almost any noise is unacceptable. i thought wheel bearings or drive axle bearings since it was quite loud and my tires, although not new, had lots of life left in them. In addition, both cars drove very smoothly. After my VW tech insisted upon his inspection that it must be tires, I was shocked. However, I was still reluctant to throw away what appeared to be some good expensive rubber on an experienced "guess". Finally the noise got to me (and my wife) and we bit the bullet and replaced the tires on each car. I was pleased to admit to the tech that the noise was tires in both cases. The moral of the story, at least for me, is that "bad or in my case, cupped" tires can make a lot of noise in these AWD and extremely heavy vehicles. In fact, much more noise than I ever could have imagined. 

Jim X


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## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

Jxander said:


> i have had "running" noises in both my Phaeton and my Touareg. The noises were, to me, less than trivial and requiring attention. The Phaeton especially, is such a refined car that almost any noise is unacceptable. i thought wheel bearings or drive axle bearings since it was quite loud and my tires, although not new, had lots of life left in them. In addition, both cars drove very smoothly. After my VW tech insisted upon his inspection that it must be tires, I was shocked. However, I was still reluctant to throw away what appeared to be some good expensive rubber on an experienced "guess". Finally the noise got to me (and my wife) and we bit the bullet and replaced the tires on each car. I was pleased to admit to the tech that the noise was tires in both cases. The moral of the story, at least for me, is that "bad or in my case, cupped" tires can make a lot of noise in these AWD and extremely heavy vehicles. In fact, much more noise than I ever could have imagined.
> 
> Jim X


 I'd like to go ahead and put some Michellins on my Phaeton and be done with it. However, the Conti's still have about 6 months worth of tread left and after all of the money I've put into the car since I bought it 6 weeks ago, my wife would kill me if I told her that I need to drop another $1,000 on tires. Over the last month, here's what I've spent on my car. 

Front lower control arm & sway bar drop links - $1,400 
RR Window regulator ($100 deductible) 
Dual Xenon Retrofit - $800 
Considering a Klat 7 Bluetooth unit - $200 
New brakes and rotors from Adam's Rotors - $699 

If I include the 90k service I had done and the various tools I've purchased to work on the car, I'm well over the $3k mark in my first 2 months of ownership. So it looks like I'll probably just wait until spring to put some non-sport tires on the car. 

Bobby


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Sarmale89 said:


> I'd like to go ahead and put some Michellins on my Phaeton and be done with it. However, the Conti's still have about 6 months worth of tread left and after all of the money I've put into the car since I bought it 6 weeks ago, my wife would kill me if I told her that I need to drop another $1,000 on tires. Over the last month, here's what I've spent on my car......
> 
> If I include the 90k service I had done and the various tools I've purchased to work on the car, I'm well over the $3k mark in my first 2 months of ownership. So it looks like I'll probably just wait until spring to put some non-sport tires on the car.
> 
> Bobby


 Bobby: 

I certainly understand that logic, especially since you're not talking about a long wait(6 mos or so). I only drive each of my cars about 6k miles per year, so for me to wear out the tires on my Phaeton and Touareg would have taken possibly two years or so. We couldn't wait for that. Also I have "only" spent about $3k(exclusive of tires) on my Phaeton in 2.5 years and most of that was the early replacement of the timing belt, waterpump, etc. In 2 years of Touareg ownership, repair costs have been trivial since I have had a CPO warranty and the mileage is still quite low - 33k miles. 

I bet you'll love your Phaeton even more with new tires. 

Jim X


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## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

Jxander said:


> Bobby:
> 
> I certainly understand that logic, especially since you're not talking about a long wait(6 mos or so). I only drive each of my cars about 6k miles per year, so for me to wear out the tires on my Phaeton and Touareg would have taken possibly two years or so. We couldn't wait for that. Also I have "only" spent about $3k(exclusive of tires) on my Phaeton in 2.5 years and most of that was the early replacement of the timing belt, waterpump, etc. In 2 years of Touareg ownership, repair costs have been trivial since I have had a CPO warranty and the mileage is still quite low - 33k miles.
> 
> ...


 Jim, 

You're tempting me  Costco does have a deal for $70 off a set of Michellins until the end of this month. I have to admit that the tire noise does really bother me. Maybe I'll go through the couch cushions tonight and see if I can come up with some some new tire money :laugh: 

Bobby


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