# Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

... and boy do I like it! I swear I must be driving an Audi or a BMW, because it sure feels like it! Let me break it down for you:
*The ProSystem Includes:*
For the benefit of those who don't know yet, the Eibach ProSystem consists of the Eibach ProKit springs and the Eibach ProDamper shocks. The ProDampers are progressive damping performance shocks made by Sachs and carry a lifetime warranty; they are valved to match the ProKit springs and your car.
*The ProSystem + includes:*
(note the plus sign) The ProSystem + includes Eibach 22/25 mm F/R swaybars along with the springs and shocks. A little more aggressive than the basic ProSystem. A little more responsive, less understeer, and stiffer over bumps. I have the basic ProSystem.
*Lowering:* 
Average 1.1" lower in front and rear. Dead even drop. I expect it to settle another 0.2" or so over the next few months. Unfortunately, my fears of scrapge came true (minor as it may be), as I do hear my mudflaps scraping over the speedbumps in my garage. These speedbumps, however, are the biggest ones I've ever seen, so this may actually not be a problem with most speedbumps out there. 
For before and after pics, click on the pics link in my sig.
*Ride Comfort:* 
The ride is firmer, but not harsh. Where the factory sport suspension would be more forgiving with initial impact, it also had the problem of being underdamped. The result was that undulating road surfaces and bumps really upset the chassis. The uncontrolled wheel and body motion over bumps and dips when compared to the very poised Eibach setup now seems totally unnecessary and melodramatic. On the same stretches of road where the suspension used to almost bottom out and fully extend repeatedly (and I would be rocking back and forth in my seat), the car now feels glued to the road. Thwack, thud, you feel a quick, loud bump, but within a fraction of a second, the motion is over. Perfectly damped, in other words. 
While the Eibach system transmits impacts more directly into the cabin (the *sound* of the impact more than the actual jolt), it makes up for it with superb motion control. On a net basis, I really like it. Reminds me of my friend's previous generation BMW 3-series (before BMW softened up their suspensions).
*Handling:*
You know what? I kinda miss the factory sport suspension now. Why? High-speed curves and lane-changes are too easy now. Point and shoot. I miss the art of high speed curves and executing lane changes at high speed because you had to manage the inevitable "weight transfer", or roll, when you turned. You guys with the stock and factory sport suspensions know what I mean: You turn the wheel, then a split second later, you can feel the weight of the car shift to the other side as its rolling. So, you need to turn earlier and/or more than necessary, but then once you feel the weight start shifting, you have to turn the wheel back a little earlier, because you know you're going to overshoot your mark. After a while, this becomes somewhat of an artform at 130 km/h or 80 mph on curvy highways.








With the ProSystem, the steering is more direct and linear, roll is reduced, as is pitching and diving. As mentioned before, motion control is much better, making the car feel nimble and stable when making lane-changes at high speed.
*Overall:*
I love this system and recommend it highly to anyone who wants a mild to moderate suspension upgrade. In other words, this is the sport suspension that VW should have used all along. Much better control and poise without sacrificing much comfort. 
Note: Hardcore handling freaks or lowering fanatics will find this suspension too mild. Buy coilovers instead.
*Source/Install:*
Purchased from shox.com for $529 USD + $45 S&H. Add $187 CDN for brokerage fees, GST, and PST. System installed and alignment done at Strictly European Motors in North York for $200 CDN. (416) 636-7575, ask for Marco. Tell him Shawn with the silver Jetta sent you







...for those of you interested in FK Coilovers, they carry the full line so you don't need to order them from Denon in Vancouver.
[EDIT: added before and after pics - see link in sig]


[Modified by catalytic, 4:49 PM 2-3-2002]


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## Cudgel (Dec 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]... unnecessary and melodramatic.[HR][/HR]​I've never heard anything here described with these words. _Bravo!_ Bravo!








$200 sounds like a good price. Was that "including tax"?


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Cudgel)*

Good write up, I've had setup for 6 months now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (9VW23yrs)*

Ah, yes. I remember. After all, your positive comments about your own ProSystem led me to get my own... Thanks Jorge, and to the other vortexers like Phil, Don, and John. You all spoke highly of your ProSystems, and I must say you were all right! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


[Modified by catalytic, 1:59 AM 1-5-2002]


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

About time you stepped up and got a suspension, Catalytic.







The Pro-System rocks. If you install the swaybars, you'll be even happier.
I'm still running the SofSport/Bilstein HD combo, and frankly, I'm getting tired of it here in NYC. My next step is to replace the HDs with Koni Adjustables to see if I can have my cake and eat it as well. Since I track the car 3-5x/year, I dont want to go with the Pro-system as it is a *bit* too soft. I'm thinking the adjustables are my answer for smoother daily driving and good track performance.......*smashes piggie bank on floor*
-Mike P


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (tyrolkid)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Sounds like you really like the system and great review! IMHO, any aftermarket sports suspension is such an improvement over the stock VW Mk IV suspension that the first reaction is one of simple glee ... its like stepping into a totally new car ... a sports car







Enjoy and keep us updated on how you like the kit over time.
tyrolkid ... I just IMd you.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (tyrolkid)*

quote:[HR][/HR]About time you stepped up and got a suspension, Catalytic.







The Pro-System rocks. If you install the swaybars, you'll be even happier.[HR][/HR]​







Yeah, I didn't have the funds before, so I made myself think that it simply wasn't worth it -- you know, with excuses like "well, my resale value won't go up when I sell the car, so it's a horrible investment"... "the factory sport suspension is good enough; don't be so picky about the friggin suspension when your friends are driving 10 year old Toyotas" ... "I drive mostly in city traffic anyways, so I don't generate enough g-forces to justify spending $800 on an aftermarket setup", etc. 
As for the swaybars, I know what you mean. The response could be sharper; the handling could be tighter. I can feel that now. But it would reduce the ride comfort a bit, and reduce the safety margin a bit on snowy/icy roads. So, I will happily live with this compromise for now. But yes, I agree. The ProSystem+ (+ meaning it includes swaybars) would be the "hot setup" for those who want the perfect moderate suspension upgrade.
quote:[HR][/HR]I'm still running the SofSport/Bilstein HD combo, and frankly, I'm getting tired of it here in NYC. My next step is to replace the HDs with Koni Adjustables to see if I can have my cake and eat it as well. Since I track the car 3-5x/year, I dont want to go with the Pro-system as it is a *bit* too soft. I'm thinking the adjustables are my answer for smoother daily driving and good track performance.......*smashes piggie bank on floor*[HR][/HR]​Yes, I agree, the ProSystem would be too soft on the track. It is not a setup you would use for racing, auto-x, etc. As for switching to the Konis, you will still be running on the stiffer NS SofSports, so I'm not sure if switching from the Bilsteins will completely solve your problem. Don't forget that adjusting the Konis are a PITA, too, at least on the rears, where you have to take them out and compress them fully before you can adjust them.
I know some company out there makes double-adjustable Bilsteins (or converts your existing Bilsteins for "a modest sum") so you can tune both the compression and rebound to your liking. A softer compression setting can help with the impact harshness... I think I'd go nuts trying to tune it (a little more compression... little less rebound... oops, too much... a little more rebound... hmm, that doesn't feel right either... arrggghh!). 
Have you considered coilovers? They had an awesome clearance sale on KW Variants at theracestore.com. I don't know if it's still on. Everybody says the KW's give an excellent ride, and you can adjust the height and damping on the KW V3 to your liking. Somehow, I find it hard to think of coilovers as being comfortable, but I'm just a skeptic at heart








I guess the only thing I recommend for sure is that you can try a Minus One setup for your tires. Tires play a big role in ride comfort. If you've got 225/45-17's on now, try a 205/55-16 setup for daily driving. When you get to the track, put your racing rubbers on. That and using the Koni Sports to adjust settings for street vs. track use.
Finally, remember that inflation pressure plays a big role in ride comfort, too. 30/30 psi F/R can really help smooth out a stiff ride compared to 36/36, or whatever you're running. Most people have their tires rock hard, and they wonder why the ride is harsh. Of course, pump them up for track use, but for daily driving, I say let the air out!


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic-
I'm already running 205/55-16s and have adjusted pressure from 26-36. Lower pressure leads to a smoother ride, but more bounce from the flexing sidewall. Higher pressure, rougher ride, but less bounce. Best compromise to date is 32F/30R. 
As far as coilovers, permit me to ROFL. I have ridden them all...H&R, KW, Bilstein....they are ALL WAY STIFFER than my setup. My friend on H&R with 17" Volks gives me a headache it's so stiff. The PSS9s are the best, but still incredibly stiff, and not for me.
The adjustment procedure of the Koni does not bother me. I'd run them in two postions basically....full soft, and full hard. I just want to make sure that on the softest setting they are softer in compression than the Bilstein, and stiffer in the Stiffest setting. No one has an answer.







I'm stepping up to a 225/50-16 Pilot Sport or S-03 in the spring time, so I need to soften the shocks for day to day driving before then........
-Mike P


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (tyrolkid)*

Heh, heh... Great minds think alike







I use 31 psi F/R with my 17" summer tires, and 32 psi F/R with my 16" snows. 
The Koni should be a little softer than the Bilstein on compression. The adjustment only controls rebound valving, but should also be a little softer than the Bilsteins on the full soft setting. On the stiffest setting, rebound should be much stiffer than the Bilstein. The adjustment range is such that full firm is twice as stiff as full soft (in fact, Koni says you should never need to set them to full firm). Of course, I also haven't heard definitive answers either, but the scenario I described above is what I hear most often.
As for the upgraded tires, you can always lower the pressure a touch, maybe 1-2 psi if they turn out to be too stiff. Since they will have less sidewall flex, you probably won't get the resultant bounce/squish.


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## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Absolutely great review. Straight forward and unbiased. Well done.
quote:[HR][/HR]
As for the swaybars, I know what you mean. The response could be sharper; the handling could be tighter. I can feel that now. But it would reduce the ride comfort a bit, and reduce the safety margin a bit on snowy/icy roads.[HR][/HR]​The ride comfort should only be reduced on rough roads. On smooth roads, the ride comfort shuld be pretty much the same. Also, I'm not sure the Eibach bars would reduce the safety margin on snow or ice by anything noticeable. The rear is "only" 25mm. When coupled with the front 22mm, the car should be more neutral than stock. It will plow less than stock on snow or ice, but shouldn't be close to sudden oversteer, even on snow or ice.
quote:[HR][/HR]
Yes, I agree, the ProSystem would be too soft on the track. It is not a setup you would use for racing, auto-x, etc.[HR][/HR]​That may be true for auto-x because auto-x generally requires a stiffer suspension than a road course. I think the Eibach Pro System + (with bars) would be just fine on a wide open road course. It may take a fraction of a second longer to "settle" on some road course turns, but turning in slightly sooner will eliminate this. If you're running for trophies, then you'll want something different. But, if you're running for fun, to improve your driving skills, and pretty much trying to compete against yourself, then you may very well be better of with the Pro System + than anything else.

[Modified by dmkozak, 3:26 PM 1-6-2002]


[Modified by dmkozak, 3:28 PM 1-6-2002]


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (dmkozak)*

I'm going with the Eibach Pro System + as soon as my car arrives (hopefully mid-March).
Wheels wil be next. Will 225x45-17's provide too much harshness for a daily driver? Would I be better served by 225x50-16's? I'm thinking of OZ Superleggeras, wrapped with Sumi HTR's


[Modified by keycom, 12:25 PM 1-6-2002]


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## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (keycom)*

Keycom- I have the Pro-system with 225-45-17's and the ride is not too harsh at all. I live in Oklahoma and we were just rated as the 6th worst roads in the US. I am actually thinking of switching out the prokit springs for the sportline. I don't like a "slammed" look, but the prokit still has to much wheel gap. When I AutoX I use 15's so I think I am going to go with the lower sportlines to help wheel gap and turn-in for AutoX. Hope this helps.


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## vr6dubber23 (Nov 2, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (keegan)*

how much wheelgap do you have with the prosystem? by prosystem, we're talking about the matching springs and dampers, right? i am looking into this setup as well, but don't really need a drop more than i would say 1.5", just to get rid of some of the wheelgap with my 17's. it's also a daily driver of around 60 miles a day, so comfort is important too. seemed to be the best choice. any other suggestions? thanks


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## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (vr6dubber23)*

The wheel gap isn't real bad, in front it's 1 & 3/4 the rear is about 2 & 1/4 with 225-45-27's


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## DasoGTI (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (keegan)*

27 inches!!! wow man, you got big wheels.







You got pictures of that?


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## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (DasoGTI)*

Yeah I am making a monster car out of it. haha. damn fingers, don't work in the cold.


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## Hemlock (Jul 28, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

So, let me get this right, I can buy the VW springs for my Beetle from the dealer for $160 (I got a discount book for 20% off.) And get the ProDamper shocks later. How does this set up differ from any of the Cup Kits out there (ie The Weitec group buy that's going on right now).


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Hemlock)*

Well, you could get the VW/Eibach springs first from the dealer and add Eibach ProDampers later, but realize this: the VW/Eibach springs are not exactly the same as Eibach ProKits. They are slightly softer, I think. 
Another issue is your total cost including installation. If you get the VW/Eibach springs now and install them, and then a couple months later, you get the ProDampers, you will have to pay again for installation -- the extra labour cost exceeds the savings you get with your coupon. 
The final issue is that if you run the VW/Eibach springs with your stock shocks, not only will your suspension be underdamped (a little bouncy and lacking control), but you will wear out your stock shocks much more quickly (20-25k miles).
Compared to the ProSystem, the Weitec GT Cup kit has a greater drop (1.6 or 2.4" depends on what version you order). It's supposed to be slightly stiffer than the ProSystem, and surprisingly good for the price. The H&R Cupkit is supposed to be more aggressive than the Weitec GT setup, with a greater (1.8") drop than the 1.6" version, a little better handling, but less ride comfort as well. So, in terms of aggressiveness: 
(more aggressive) H&R > Weitec GT > Eibach ProSystem (less aggressive)
The Weitec TX has adjustable rebound damping, so you can adjust the "stiffness" to Eibach ProSystem or H&R Cup kit levels, depending on your preference.
For those who are looking to retain ground clearance but want a little better handling from the ProSystem, the Eibach ProSystem + (with the swaybars) would be good competition for the H&R Cup kit, but with a better ride and higher ground clearance.
The Weitecs do look like a pretty good deal for the money, but with the 40 mm drop (1.6"), it was too much of a drop and totally out of the question for me.
Keep in mind that when you are dropping your suspension > 1.5", you often need to replace your front swaybar with one that's designed for lowering, adding to your cost.


[Modified by catalytic, 11:10 PM 1-29-2002]


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## Hemlock (Jul 28, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Dood. You have to be one of the most articulate people on the Vortex. Thanks man. I'm leaning hard toward the Prosystem now. The Weitec is tempting, but I like the fact that Eibach warranties the stuff for life. Weitec only has a three year.
That and good handling without slamming the car is appealing since the roads/driveways around here aren't the greatest. I don't want to buy a new suspension and then a new front end. (Although the ABD Cup Bumper looks pretty good on the Beetle. . . .)
What you said about adding eibach bars later made sense too. I mean, down the road if I want to push it a little harder, I can throw those on.
Anyhow thanks for the scoop.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Hemlock)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Dood. You have to be one of the most articulate people on the Vortex. [HR][/HR]​Nah, it just seems like that because I rarely say things like "dood"








quote:[HR][/HR]What you said about adding eibach bars later made sense too. I mean, down the road if I want to push it a little harder, I can throw those on.[HR][/HR]​You don't even have to go Eibach, either. Neuspeed, Autotech, Shine, etc.


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## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]What you said about adding eibach bars later made sense too. I mean, down the road if I want to push it a little harder, I can throw those on.
You don't even have to go Eibach, either. Neuspeed, Autotech, Shine, etc.[HR][/HR]​Altho, even forgetting about the Eibach bars being actually designed to match the spring/shocks, which is a pretty good reason for getting them along with the Pro System, the Eibach rear bar goes around the rear shock mount instead of underneath it like the Neuspeed, so there won't be any clearance problems.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (dmkozak)*

Good point. Didn't know that. Too bad they don't sell the rear bar by itself, as it seems the front bar is really not worth the extra cost and trouble to install after you've already installed the springs and shocks like myself (especially since there is such a small difference in diameter from stock).


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## Eric O (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

catalytic - any before and after pictures? I am curious to see how noticeable the drop is.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Eric O)*

[EDIT: now have before and after pics -- using sidewinder's Jetta as the "before" pic... click the link in my sig]
I'd say that the drop is noticeable to the car enthusiast, but not to the average person on the street. To put it another way, it gets rid of those "oh my god, look at that wheel well gap" looks from fellow car enthusiasts, but not to the extent that they think "man, that car is slammed" (like you would get if you installed the Weitec 60 mm or even the H&R cup kit).


[Modified by catalytic, 4:52 PM 2-3-2002]


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## kevindow (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

catalytic:
First of all, your review was superb. I still have a few questions about the system. Do passengers and other people who drive your car consider the ride comfortable ? About how much are the roll, squat, and dive reduced ? I have a '98 Passat 1.8T with a GIAC chip, and the squat and dive drive me crazy. Thanks for all the info.
Kevin


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## chuming (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

catalytic,
Nice review. Gonna upgrade my suspension very soon and I had been going back on forth between the H R cupkit, weitec 30-40mm gt, and the eibach prosystem. After reading your review I am leaning more towards the eibach. That I had have read the the H R cupkit has some problems with the spring rubbing against the shocks on the mkIV platform. I have heard a couple bad reviews on the weitec but I haven't heard anything bad about the eibach, other than maybe it's too soft. But hey, my car is mostly a commuter anyways, so comfy=good for me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I noticed that you're from toronto. How does your car handle in the snow and ice. I live in St. Paul, MN and we get our share of snow and ice too. Any problems with your car being too low for the snow drifts?
RH.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Eric O)*

Okay, boys. You are in luck. Just got my digital camera yesterday. Here are a couple shots with the Eibach ProSystem installed:
http://www.catalytic.ca/e_dawg8/prosystem_pics.htm


[Modified by catalytic, 10:59 PM 2-3-2002]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (kevindow)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Do passengers and other people who drive your car consider the ride comfortable ? About how much are the roll, squat, and dive reduced ? I have a '98 Passat 1.8T with a GIAC chip, and the squat and dive drive me crazy.[HR][/HR]​The first time people rode in my car after I switched the suspension, I told them I changed my suspension and asked if they noticed any difference in handling or ride comfort. *Everybody* I asked said "I don't know, seems the same to me... by the way, what happened to your car? Is it broken already? Why did you need to replace your suspension? Isn't it under warranty?" Stuff like that. As far as they are concerned, it is the same as stock, and I wasted my money. But then again, most people are not enthusiasts, and they don't notice things like roll, squat, dive, rebound damping, etc.
If you want a perspective from older folks who love their luxury cruisers, my parents certainly do not like the ride, but they never liked the ride before I installed the ProSystem either. In fact, the first time they rode in the Jetta, they simply dismissed it as a cheap, cramped, uncomfortable little thing. But you have to remember the cars of their glory days were several 1970's Ford Thunderbirds, which probably weighed over 5,000 pounds and had the good old American luxo ride comfort.
As for roll, squat, and dive, they are reduced significantly. To be sure, they are not completely gone, but like I mentioned before in the review, no more trying to time the roll-induced "weight transfer steering correction" on high speed curves. I guarantee you that it is miles better than your Passat.


[Modified by catalytic, 3:22 AM 2-2-2002]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (chuming)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I noticed that you're from toronto. How does your car handle in the snow and ice. I live in St. Paul, MN and we get our share of snow and ice too. Any problems with your car being too low for the snow drifts?[HR][/HR]​Actually, since I replaced my suspension, I started working in downtown Toronto, so I never had to drive to work all January (I never thought I'd say this, but I love public transit. It's so convenient and relaxing compared to battling the downtown rush hour traffic for 2-3 hours every day). The only snowstorm we had was the past couple days, and I was not going to subject my car to possibly the worst mixture of slush, salt, and ice of the entire year.
IMO, the 1.25" drop of the Eibach is the lowest you can go in snow country (yes, that means you Minnesotans) without any problems. I wouldn't get the Weitec 40 or 60 mm cup kits, nor the H&R Cup kit. I was even afraid of the 1.25" drop being too much in the snow, but now realize that 90% of the time, city roads are perfectly fine. And for that 10% of the time when you get hit with a major blizzard, that extra 1.25" is not going to save you. In that kind of weather, unless you have an SUV, you're not going anywhere. Anybody with a car -- lowered or not lowered -- is out of luck.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jorgeaz)*

The Eibach rides better. The spring rate and damping are both a little softer, especially compared to the Bilstein shocks. 
As it is a little softer, the handling will be a little less responsive, yes, but the beauty of it is that you can simply add the Eibach swaybar kit, or a rear swaybar (or both f and r) from any aftermarket vendor and kick things up a notch.
But don't worry about it being not enough of an improvement. The ProSystem handles much better than the factory sport suspension (my sport lux package is the same setup as your WE, except for my 17" rims), which itself is a noticeable upgrade from the base model suspension. The first week with the ProSystem, you will have a Perma-grin from ear to ear as you try out your favourite curves. 
After a few months, you may become jaded and think you need to add a rear bar, but a ProSystem+ or a ProSystem with aftermarket swaybars is all I think you will ever need in a suspension unless you truly are a hardcore enthusiast or racer. FWIW, I still think that the basic ProSystem with stock swaybars is more than adequate for most people out there.


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

how much stiffer than stock is the eibach setup?? % wise that is.


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Catalytic-I'm going to participate a track event next week, I'll keep you posted on how they perform at the "limit" and if sways are warranted.
The prosytem is aprox 25-30%stiffer than stock. Eibachs valving allows the setup to ride like stock at low speeds and small high frequency undulations.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Dani, I would say there are two components to the "firmness" of a suspension -- spring rate and shock valving. Spring rate is easier to quantify and compare, but shock valving is complex because of the multi-stage valving technology and differences between the force-damping curves engineered into different shocks by different manufacturers. Not to mention, the differences between compression and rebound curves. 
Sooo.... while the Eibach ProKit springs may be 20-25% stiffer than stock, the ProSystem shocks are far more advanced than the OE shocks, and it would be hard to quantify exactly how much firmer they are than stock. Sometimes, they are only 10-15% firmer than stock, but at other parts in their damping curves, they are 40-45% stiffer -- again, compression and rebound damping firmness over stock would vary. But, a ballpark estimate would put the compression damping at +10-30% and rebound at +15-45% stiffer than stock. 
Overall, I would say 9VW23yrs' figure of +25-30% for the ProSystem as a whole is a good average number.
Having said that, here are a comparison of *spring rates relative to stock* (but don't forget to factor in the valving rates of your shocks):
Stock: +0%
Factory Sport Suspension (*1): +7%
VW/Eibach Lowering Springs (*2): +15-20%
Eibach ProKit: +20-25% 
H&R Sport: +30-35%
Neuspeed Sport: +35-40%
Shine Real Street (*3): +30-60%
*Shock Valving:* (from softer to firmer)
Eibach ProDampers < Koni Sport (full soft) < Bilstein Sport < Koni Sport (medium)
*Other:*
With the exception of the slightly softer Weitec GT 30-40 mm models, the Weitec and H&R Cup kits would be around +40-60% I guess... various coilovers starting around +50-100% and up depending on the coilover and the ride height setting... race springs starting around +70-90% and up.
(*1): as found on the WE, GTI, and sport lux pkg equipped cars
(*2): dealer installed sport suspension kit
(*3): depends on which Shine springs you use... standard 4cyl MkIV 225/200 setup is about 40-50% stiffer than stock


[Modified by catalytic, 10:50 PM 2-3-2002]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (9VW23yrs)*

9VW23yrs:
Thanks, Jorge. I look forward to your results. Go get 'em on the track 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

thanks guys.
I'm still torn between the Prokit and the H&R coilovers.
scared the prokit might be too soft and the lowering not enough.... scared the coilovers might be too stiff and the lowering too much... even at its highest setting.
sigh


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

In that case, get the H&R Sports with Bilstein Sport shocks. The H&R Sports will be about 10% stiffer than the ProKit springs, and the Bilstein will be stiffer than the ProDampers. Plus, you get 1.5/1.4" F/R of lowering instead of 1.25" F/R.
Honestly, I would avoid the coilovers or anything greater than 1.5" drop if you are one of those "practical people". One thing that is underrated in the world of mods is peace of mind. The show car look is great for the first few months, and so is the stiff ride and handling. But, as the months pass, you will get tired of having to take precautions every day just to avoid scraping something on the underside of your car, and neither you nor your passengers will like the ride when they spill their Starbucks on their lap going over a bump.
IMO, it's better to err on the side of being not stiff enough, because you can always kick things up a notch with swaybars (adding a 25/28 mm set is like upgrading your springs and shocks). And it's better to be not low enough than to be too low. At the worst, you have a tiny bit too much wheel gap. Too low, and it's "(your choice of expletive)! I scraped my front skirt / oilpan / exhaust / etc."
Trust me on that last point. My friend and my dad both had BMW's with an M-sport front skirt. But neither of them had lowered suspensions -- just the factory sport suspension (which only lower 1" or so). And both of them always had to be very careful going into/out of driveways, parking lots, etc. 
My friend always had to "gun it" to get out of his underground parking spot without scraping it, which was dangerous, because when you come out of underground lots, you can't see anything on the sidewalk to either side. 
When I drove my dad's car one time, I scraped the front skirt going into a parking lot "head-on". I wanted to go in diagonally, if you know what I mean, but I couldn't because a car was coming out at the same time. And because oncoming traffic was coming, I couldn't just stop in the middle of the road. I didn't think I was going to scrape anything as I was going very slow, but I scraped the lower side of the leading edge. Needless to say, nobody was very happy that day, but this is what you have to live with when you lower a car (or put a front skirt on it).


[Modified by catalytic, 1:06 AM 2-4-2002]


----------



## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

you know...
I DONT know what the hell I'm talking about lol...
I've always loved prokits... always RAN prokits in all my cars and talked my dad and all my friends into using them as well.
I dont see how they could be soft..... cause for some reason my GTI's suspension seems pretty stiff to me. Its actually as stiff or stiffer than my mustangs suspension with pro-kits if you can believe that.
not to mention I am going to be running 235's on 18x8.5 rims.... I dont want to run spacers... but I dont think its ever gonna work with coilovers.. despite what I keep trying to tell myself.
I can pick up the springs for 197.... But I cant decide on shocks... My choices are the pro dampners, tokico non adjustables... and tokico illumina 5 awy adjustables.
I hear the prodampners have had some problems with quality??? but they are matched to the springs...
but my dad has tokico non adjustables with his prokit... and thats what I ran for a long time and it seemed a good match. I would think the illuminas with their adjustable compr. and rebound would be even better... will make new post for this


----------



## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I hear the prodampners have had some problems with quality???[HR][/HR]​Are you sure you heard about ProDampener problems? The ProDampeners are made by Sachs for Eibach. Sachs is also an OEM supplier to VW and Audi. There have been a lot of reports of Sachs shocks leaking in Audis, especially TTs, and in VWs. Some posts have reported leaking Sachs and then reminded people that Sachs supplies the ProDampeners. But, I don't remember anyone saying the ProDampeners actually leak. I could be wrong, but this is what comes to mind.
Also, the ProDampeners haven't really been around very long, and they're only made for a few cars, so I don't really know that people have had problems with ProDampeners.


----------



## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (dmkozak)*

I remember reading somewhere that the MKI-III shocks had alot of problems leaking etc.... cant remember what post that was in though?


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Dani, I don't know what the heck you are smoking these days, but it must be good







Now that you have confused the heck out of me, I hope you got everything straightened out with the ProKits.
Anyways.... shocks. I don't think Eibach ever made ProDampers for Mk1-3 cars, so I don't know how they could have developed a reputation for that. I did hear a couple rumours over a year ago about defective ProDampers, but I haven't heard anything since then. In fact, I've heard of many more problems with the god-like Bilsteins in the past two years with various mounting and squeaking problems. 
Furthermore, if you want to talk about reliability issues, the Tokico Illuminas are the worst shocks in that regard, judging by the amount of reliability complaints I've heard over the years on the net. If you want adjustable damping, the Koni Sport is the one to get. pal and beetle/gti lover report positive experiences with it.
Having said that, remember that you have to take reliability problems with a grain of salt on the net. (the window regulator and MAF problems on MKIV's I do believe are real, however)
You might want to get the ProSystem, as it bundles the ProKits and ProDampers together for a slight discount. I'm not sure how long shox.com will let people do this for, but I when I bought mine, the quote they sent me was for $579 US. I knew some fellow Vortexers who bought them for $529 US from shox.com a couple weeks before I did, and asked if they could match the lower price. They did.


[Modified by catalytic, 7:27 PM 2-4-2002]


----------



## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Anyways.... shocks. I don't think Eibach ever made ProDampers for Mk1-3 cars, so I don't know how they could have developed a reputation for that. [HR][/HR]​I was just looking at an old eibach catalog today... they do make them for the older dubs. but perhaps that was the regular Sachs shocks that were being discussed earlier...

quote:[HR][/HR]Furthermore, if you want to talk about reliability issues, the Tokico Illuminas are the worst shocks in that regard, judging by the amount of reliability complaints I've heard over the years on the net.[HR][/HR]​Really?? I've had tokico's on the mustang for over 80,000 miles with not a single problem one. In fact they are just barely starting to wear out. Same with dads... although he doesnt have that much milage on his (he's at about 30k) But then again... we both run the tokico blues (non adjustable)
I'll see what shox.com will quote me on the prosystem... and see if its any better. Otherwise I might just go with the tokico blues.... $490 for the blues and the prokits....
Do you have any problems with the front spring mounts on your pro dampners?? someone was saying they had some rattling/clunking issues because the spring fit loosely in the spring seat.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Ah, yes. You're right. They did make them for Mk3's. Checking their site, it appears that they were made for certain models of Golfs and Jettas (but not for VR6 and GTI models).
As for the Tokicos, it may be that the Illuminas were, as Great Big Head says, used with low and stiff racing springs, which were probably too much for the poor Illuminas to handle. Not every shock is as tough as Bilsteins are, I guess. As you have had good experiences with the Tokico Blues, they should be a good alternative as well.
As for the spring perch issue, I believe you are talkiing about 9VW23yrs. I e-mailed him about it, and he said it was more of an installation issue -- the installer didn't get it right. So far, I have not noticed any of the rattling that affected his ProSystem, nor have I had any problems with the rear end not lowering enough. Apparently a couple people with Eibach ProKits and ProSystems only had .5" of drop in the back. That's gotta be an installation thing as well, as most people's Eibachs, including mine, are dropped evenly F/R.


----------



## chuming (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Got 15"s right now. Plan to upgrade to 17"s after I upgrade my suspension. Any problems with rubbing on 17"s with H&R sport and Bilsteins?


----------



## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

ok one last question








Did you install them yourself??? I'd like to install mine myself.. rears are cake... not a problem there!! But the fronts.... well i've never messed with struts like these.. The mustangs always had modified mcphersons.... where you had a seperate strut and spring... you didnt have to pre-assymble them and set spring preload and all that stuff!!! nor did you need special tools.
I was told the pro-system comes with the springs already installed and preloaded on the front struts. Is this true?
How easy is it to swap the fronts out??
I'm pretty much sold on the pro-system now.... should be excellent with my 25mm rear bar!!!!
Just gotta find the best deal on the price.... and then sit back and wait for my tax refund ;D


----------



## turblue (Dec 2, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Just want to say thanks to Catalytic for your in-depth answers and observations.
For my needs I'm now certain that I'm going with the pro-system.
I'll add sway bars down the road if I need more edge.
Thanks!


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Dani, I did not install it myself, but then again, my "tools" pretty much consist of a 6-in-1 screwdriver







... Actually, I was going to do the rears myself as well, but I got a good deal on the install, and wasn't going to save much money anyways, so I let the pros do it.
The fronts are a PITA, but it can be done by someone who has some experience working on (under) their car, or at least with the guidance of a friend who has installed their own suspension. Two special tools will make your life easier: the spreader tool to spread the knuckle that holds the bottom of the strut in place, and the spindle/strut nut allen key thingy that allows you to tighten the top of the strut to the tower... both are supposedly available from Autotech. If you spend enough time with the search, you might be able to find the thread that provides details on that.
Unfortunately, the ProSystem does not come pre-assembled. You will need a spring compressor.
BTW, when are you getting a 25 mm rear bar? What make? If you get it after you install the suspension, let me know how you like it "before and after", so I can see if it's worth it or not. Or, if you feel like being reeeeallly nice, you could do a before/after test by disconnecting the ends if you've already installed the rear bar


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (turblue)*

You're welcome. Hope you enjoy it. We should also thank Jorge, Phil, Don, and other Vortexers whose names I can't remember right now who convinced me to get it, as I pestered them with questions before I ordered mine


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Dani, one more thing... an 18x8.5 + low profile tire setup will reduce your ride quality noticeably from stock... it may also be slightly underdamped with the extra unsprung weight from the heavy rims. While it wouldn't look as nice, 17's are the biggest I would personally want to run on this chassis from a ride quality and optimal damping perspective... IMHO, and just my 2 cents which you didn't technically ask for...


[Modified by catalytic, 2:27 AM 2-6-2002]


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (chuming)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Got 15"s right now. Plan to upgrade to 17"s after I upgrade my suspension. Any problems with rubbing on 17"s with H&R sport and Bilsteins?[HR][/HR]​Not that I have heard. Depends on how wide, too. If it's 7.5" rims, with 235 width tires, you should be okay.


----------



## soundzero (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

catalytic:
It was very informative reading your post. I am glad that I finally explored out side of MK IV forum.








I am looking into upgrading my suspension and your review was excellent for me to follow. I have one question for you though.
Currently, My GTi has 28mm NS rearsway. Do you think I have to add front sway after I get the prosystem installed?
Also, I just checked shox.com. Apparently Eibach Pro-system price is $915 














way more than what you paid for. Whats up with that?


[Modified by soundzero, 10:26 AM 2-6-2002]


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

doh...
oh well.. someone at eibach told me they came pre-assymbled. how much did your install cost you? if you dotn mine me asking.
Dont worry... I know alla bout 18s hehe... but I gotta have my sportecs!!! and they are 18x8.5 or 19x8.5 only http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
doh forgot...
I got a neuspeed 25mm bar... already installed it. Its great!!! my favorite mod so far. I guess I can disconnect it somehow and try a before and after though


[Modified by Rave'nGTi, 9:24 AM 2-6-2002]


----------



## chuming (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (soundzero)*

ask for a quote from shox.com. it will then say that the pro-system is $579.00.
rob.


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

I was the one having the rattling issue. Got it fixed, installation error. The first nut was not tightened properly because he did not compress the spring enough. The upper cap would get dislodged when steering causing it to rattle. All good now car handles and rides like a dream. I drive through some crappy roads daily(work short cut), no car rattles, bumps just get soaked up. After sunday I will consider doing sways, Eibachs of course.


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (9VW23yrs)*

kewl beans! I'm sold








now I just need my refund..... 
I just talked to someone who ordered a pro-system for their 02 GTI as well... He told shox.com that he was a member of VWvortex and wanted their special pricing and got his kit for 533 shipped!!!








When the dough starts rollin in i'm gonna send another quote request and see if they'll match that pricing!


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (soundzero)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Currently, My GTi has 28mm NS rearsway. Do you think I have to add front sway after I get the prosystem installed?[HR][/HR]​
*soundzero:*
As is usual with suspensions, it would be up to your personal preference. For myself, I think a 28 mm rear bar would be a little too much towards oversteer for my liking. But if you've enjoyed that heavy rear bar setup all along, there's no need to get a front bar. See how you like that combination first, and then you'll know what changes need to be made.
As for the shox.com website, those prices are extremely old/inflated. You really need to ask them for a quote to get the real prices. They will send you a list of prices for your car via e-mail that lists the ProSystem at $579.


[Modified by catalytic, 1:17 AM 2-7-2002]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Dani,
My install + alignment was supposed to be $200 CDN ($125 US) + tax. However, I was able to talk to my man Marco to get it done for less.
Already got a rear bar, eh? Aw, too bad. You won't get the night and day improvement anymore from replacing the shocks & springs...







Well, I'd appreciate it if you were going to do a before and after, although the rear bar is one of those upgrades that I would really be on the fence about... I actually like mild understeer, believe it or not, and I refuse to use a rear bar in the winter in case I need to drive on icy/snow roads. The increased tendency towards oversteer is just too much of a potential threat for me. Disconnecting it during the winter just doesn't seem like a good long-term solution, either.


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Already got a rear bar, eh? Aw, too bad. You won't get the night and day improvement anymore from replacing the shocks & springs...







Well, I'd appreciate it if you were going to do a before and after, although the rear bar is one of those upgrades that I would really be on the fence about... I actually like mild understeer, believe it or not, and I refuse to use a rear bar in the winter in case I need to drive on icy/snow roads. The increased tendency towards oversteer is just too much of a potential threat for me. Disconnecting it during the winter just doesn't seem like a good long-term solution, either.[HR][/HR]​Actually I have no clue where all these people are getting the heavy oversteer from with a 25mm rear bar?? I drive pretty hard and corner pretty fast... and the car is very neutral with a nice progressive understeer... Are you people taking 90* corners at 50mph in the rain or something?????
I drive on ice and snow too with no problems. Your not going to spin out from oversteer because of the rear bar... not unless your driving insanely stupid anyways.
The only problems I have are the uncontrolable bouncing and floating of the stock spring/shock combo.... like you said... it is very melodramatic about any little ripple in the pavement.
I'll let you know how it does...
just keep in mind that in street driving.. you will never reach limits high enough that you have to wory about oversteer anyways. It is the street afterall.. not a racetrack!!!


----------



## chuming (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

I didn't know that farmpit, new mexico got a lot of snow and ice.








Great thread, keep it up gang.
rob.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Yes, I know what you mean. I wasn't saying the 25 mm bar will make the car oversteer on dry pavement, but it will neutralize things. True, we usually never pull even 0.5 g in regular driving, but in slick conditions, you can exceed the limit of adhesion with < 0.1 g. Add to that an unexpected braking situation, and you can easily exceed limits without driving like an idiot -- just minor steering and braking inputs. And what would be confidence inspiring neutrality on clear pavement can quickly turn into oversteer on a patch of ice.
You have to realize that I am looking at things from a totally different perspective. Most people will tune their car for the other three seasons and say "just be careful in the winter and you shouldn't have any problems". I tune my car for the winter and will settle for more understeer for the rest of the year. 
Living in Montreal all those years really made me think differently about things, because I had to deal with icy/slick roads almost every day -- not occasionally like most of my mild winter American friends (those of you living in Buffalo and Minnesota excepted







). I guess now that I live in Toronto I should change my philosophy, but old habits die hard.


----------



## soundzero (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

You haven't answered my questions yet









And I think I am sold as well.....


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (soundzero)*

soundzero:
Please see above, as I did answer about 5-6 posts up (I added your name in Bold so you would know which one), but maybe I wasn't too clear...
In short, NO you wouldn't *need* to add a front bar, but if you prefer a little more understeer / less oversteer, then yes you should.
[EDIT: I realize now that you were probably joking...







]


[Modified by catalytic, 1:19 AM 2-7-2002]


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## ThunderGolf (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Actually I have no clue where all these people are getting the heavy oversteer from with a 25mm rear bar?? I drive pretty hard and corner pretty fast... and the car is very neutral with a nice progressive understeer.[HR][/HR]​I agree. After installing the same rear bar on my car the steering is very neutral. I have the non-sport suspension on my Golf and a slightly smaller stock front bar (21mm vs. the GTI's 23mm) so I don't feel the understeer at all.
edit: Oh yeah, I'm researching suspension for the spring as well. I'm leaning towards the Pro System but also considering Koni yellows after Pal's review.


[Modified by ThunderGolf, 9:50 AM 2-7-2002]


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## chuming (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (ThunderGolf)*

anyone got pics of the prokit/prosystem on a dark(galactic blue/black) mkiv? Just want to see if there is a noticable difference in height b/w the hr cupkit, weitic gt, and prosystem? It was kinda hard to tell for me on the silver jetta with dark underbody.
rob.


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## ThunderGolf (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (chuming)*

There're some shots of a blue Jetta here: http://www.abella.net/vw/eibach.html


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## Y2KVR6GTI (Aug 16, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (ThunderGolf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]There're some shots of a blue Jetta here: http://www.abella.net/vw/eibach.html [HR][/HR]​It looks like those might be the Volkswagen-Eibach Sport Lowering Springs available from the dealer, not the Eibach Pro Kit.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (chuming)*

quote:[HR][/HR]anyone got pics of the prokit/prosystem on a dark(galactic blue/black) mkiv? Just want to see if there is a noticable difference in height b/w the hr cupkit, weitic gt, and prosystem? It was kinda hard to tell for me on the silver jetta with dark underbody.[HR][/HR]​Would it would be helpful if I brightened the pics a little? Just say the word and I'll make a quick adjustment in IrfanView and re-upload them onto the server. It'll take 5 minutes.


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## lab_rat (Jun 26, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

wow....this is one of the best reviews i have read about suspension mods yet....thanks for taking time out to write such an outstanding review! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nautico (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I live in Puerto Rico where road and highways are pretty awful. Right now i have neuspeed sport and stock dampers and ride is pretty awuful, (the guy which used to own the car installed that setup). When you encounter ondulating rods at highway speeds, pretty common here, the suspension bottoms out and after the bump if it wasnt for the seatbelt i'll hit the ceiling. I ordered the eibach pro kit and pro dampers so i'll be posting soon how they behave on bad roads...


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## swmacneil (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

sweet review.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks...nice post


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## Hemlock (Jul 28, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Okay. . . one more question.
It's between the Prosystem and upgrading my shocks to the Bilstein HDs (on factory springs). This is a New Beetle, and I was under the impression that the Beetles rolled from the factory on slightly stiffer springs than the rest of the Mk 4 GL and GLS models. More online with the WE and Sport options (probably not quite as stiff as those). Of course, this might be utter delusion.
Wondering if anybody could give me some comparison thoughts on these two options. I know tyrolkid has run the HD set up, but I don't think it was with factory springs.
Also, I've been warned that adding the HDs might actually make the car stand up a little taller. Something I'd rather avoid. I like her right where it's at or a touch lower.
Again, thanks for such a great review and all the other info you guys have provided.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Hemlock)*

It's always better to have spring rates and shock valving to be matched as closely as possible. Stock springs with Bilsteins are going to result in a suspension that is slightly overdamped. An example of where this could come into play is with successive bumps. Bottoming could result because the first bump will compress the suspension, but the stock springs aren't strong enough to extend the suspension back to its original position against the stiffer rebound damping of the Bilsteins. Now the second bump arrives, and you have 1" less suspension travel than before. 
Stock springs + Bilsteins isn't a bad combination by any means, but IMO, the balanced design of the ProSystem is better.
Regarding ride height, yes the Bilsteins will probably raise your ride height a quarter inch or so from stock.


[Modified by catalytic, 1:42 PM 2-19-2002]


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]It's always better to have spring rates and shock valving to be matched as closely as possible. Stock springs with Bilsteins are going to result in a suspension that is slightly overdamped. An example of where this could come into play is with successive bumps. Bottoming could result because the first bump will compress the suspension, but the stock springs aren't strong enough to extend the suspension back to its original position against the stiffer rebound damping of the Bilsteins. Now the second bump arrives, and you have 1" less suspension travel than before. 
Stock springs + Bilsteins isn't a bad combination by any means, but IMO, the balanced design of the ProSystem is better.
Regarding ride height, yes the Bilsteins will probably raise your ride height a quarter inch or so from stock.

[Modified by catalytic, 1:42 PM 2-19-2002][HR][/HR]​
I ran the Bilstein HDs and stock sport springs for a while here on the lunar landscape of NYC. The example that catalytic states of being overdamped NEVER happened with the HD/stock spring combo. With the stock shocks, it happened 1x/week. The HDs raise ride height about 1/4", but the increase in handling, control and ride comfort is well worth the tradeup. I've said in the past that the HDs slightly overdamp the stock sport springs. Now that I have gotten used to the Bilstein high-pressure gas feel, I will say that I think they match the stock springs well. The perception of overdampening I felt with the stock springs, I feel with aftermarket springs as well. I think there is no comparison between the HDs and the stock shocks for daily driving.....the HDs are worlds better.....
-Mike P


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Hemlock)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (tyrolkid)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I think there is no comparison between the HDs and the stock shocks for daily driving.....the HDs are worlds better.....[HR][/HR]​Can't argue with that. The shocks are the weakest link in the stock suspension's chain, so to speak. IMO, when changing shocks and springs, 70% of the improvement is due to the better shocks, and only 30% of it is due to stiffer springs.


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## rsdell (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Hello Catalytic:
Great review, seems like you know the eibach prosystem very well. So, maybe you can help me out a little. My question is this: I have the 2001 Jetta W.E., it comes with the sport suspension. I was telling a mechanic about the prosystem and he said the struts and shocks that are currently in my jetta are made by Sachs and there isn't much difference between the current shocks and struts and the prosystem shocks and struts. He said the big difference is the eibach springs. 
After reading the whole thread here, I have a feeling that the there is a difference between my current shocks and struts vs. the prosytem shocks and struts. Even though there both made by sachs.
Confused in connecticut








Thanks


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (rsdell)*

RSDell-
While I've never had the stock shocks and the Pro-System shocks on a dyno, I can tell you empirically that the Pro-System shocks are definitely stiffer both off and on the car....I've done a ton of installs of different systems, have driven stock shocks on all kinds of springs, have driven aftermarket shocks on stock springs as well. You cant go wrong with the Pro-system...big thumbs up from me.....you can add Konis instead of the Pro-System shocks if you want something stiffer......
-Mike P


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (rsdell)*

Confused in connecticuit? LOL... It sounds like you're writing to Dear Abby or something








Well, your mechanic is correct in that the ProDampers are made by Sachs, but Sachs Handel GmbH and Sachs Boge NA make many different types of shocks (Sachs SuperTouring, Sachs Advantage, Sachs SuperGas, Sachs Performance, Sachs Nivomat, Boge Automatic, Boge Turbo, Boge ProGas, Boge TurboGas, hundreds of OE shocks for car manufacturers, and OEM units for aftermarket suspension and tuning companies, in addition to their own suspension kits). The crappy OE shocks can't even begin to compare to the ProDampers. Admittedly, the ProDampers probably are not as good as Bilstein or Koni Sport shocks, but they are still light years ahead of the OE shocks, and work exceptionally well with the ProKit springs. I suspect the ProDamper shocks are custom made Sachs Advantage or Boge Turbo shocks.
The stiffer ProKit springs do make a difference, but using them alone with stock shocks would result in an underdamped and poorly controlled suspension. It may roll, squat, and dive less, but I guarantee you that if you just get the springs installed and go for a ride and drive comparison with me in my car, you will be kicking yourself for not getting the ProDampers too.
From the Sachs website:
*Sachs Advantage*
Das pure Fahrvergnügen
Der Spitzendämpfer mit herausragenden Eigenschaften: maximale Fahrsicherheit, optimale Straßenlage, höchster Fahrkomfort.










[Modified by catalytic, 6:54 PM 2-21-2002]


----------



## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

If you can find the August 2001 issue of Eurpean car there is an EXCELLENT technical article on the pro-dampners as compared to stock shocks, your standard other sport shock (like bilstien sports, koni, weitec, etc) and a full out custom built touring class race shock. Included a full breakdown of how the eibachs were designed and how they perform on the shock dyno compared to the others. Its a real eye opener.. even if you dont understand the technical mumbo-jumbo cause they break it down as well.
The differences were amazing... 
If you cant find it I can scan it in for everyone!


----------



## rsdell (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Rave'nGTi if you can scan the article in, that would be great.
Catalytic: you must be the cliff claven of sachs shocks, but thanks a bunch for clearing that up for me. It really seems like the prosystem is the way to go. I drive 3-4000 miles/month, and I love the speed, but I hate the lean. I'll probably do the prosytem first, and see how it feels and handles, then maybe a rear sway bar. The one that you can get with the prosytem plus, how does it compare to the autotech and neuspeed bars? One step at a time
Thanks ahead for any advice


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

You have said article, Dani? If so, yes, I would love to read it! May I suggest scanning it into a paint/photo program, sharpening it, saving it as a *4-colour GIF file* after you scan it, and then importing them into a single PDF file when you're done so as to minimize filesize? (Acrobat uses JPEG, I believe, which will result in huge PDF) ... That is, unless there are many full-colour pics that you think we should see.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (rsdell)*

The ProSystem+ includes the 22/25 mm F/R bars. Seeing as the front bar is practically the same as the stock front bar, I wouldn't bother installing it unless you are doing it at the same time as the shocks/springs. It is a PITA to take apart the subframe just to mount the bar. As for the rear bar, dmkozak tells me that it mounts around the shocks so as to preserve more ground clearance than the NS or Autotech bars, which mount below. However, it is not adjustable like the NS bars are.
Personally, I'd choose the NS 25 mm rear bar for two reasons: 1. adjustability, 2. I wouldn't install the front bar, so I'd have to find someone to sell it to. I don't want a 28 mm bar because I do not like the possibility of invoking oversteer (which can happen sometimes in slick conditions).
Autotech doesn't make a 25 mm rear bar, but their 28 mm bar is said to feature a lightweight/hollow bar and a floating end design (said to prevent binding in those extremely rare conditions). Unfortunately, you will have to drill 4 holes into the rear torsion beam to mount it, and it is not adjustable.


----------



## rsdell (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic:
One last thought, the guys at srs racing in MA, they have the shine bar. Do you know anything about that. They were the guys who chipped my car and told me about it, but there total suspension package seems to firm for the amount of driving I do.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (rsdell)*

The SRS rear "O-bar" is a coaxial/inline torsion beam reinforcer which essentially provides roll and traction reduction at the rear similar to that of a 28 mm rear bar by NS or Autotech. You will have to drill 4 holes through 2 sides of the rear torsion beam to attach it. Also not adjustable. IMO, not worth the trouble to install it yourself... unless you like drilling. Some people prefer it over the NS and Autotech bars, some people the other way around. I think it's too "strong" for my taste.


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## Hemlock (Jul 28, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Okay. The more I hear, the more I lean towards picking up the phone and making that call to Shox.com for the goods for the Prosystem. Once the tax refund rolls in I'm on it like. . . stink on. . . never mind you get the point.
From what I've read, I'd probably roll with the NS rear bar. As usual catalytic has it about right on the money. That front Eibach just doesn't seem to be worht the money, time and headache to install.
Thanks again. It's threads like these that make the Vortex invaluable.


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

ok heres the article!!! sorry the pics are so big


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Hemlock)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Okay. The more I hear, the more I lean towards picking up the phone and making that call to Shox.com for the goods for the Prosystem. Once the tax refund rolls in I'm on it like. . . stink on. . . never mind you get the point.
From what I've read, I'd probably roll with the NS rear bar. As usual catalytic has it about right on the money. That front Eibach just doesn't seem to be worht the money, time and headache to install.
Thanks again. It's threads like these that make the Vortex invaluable.[HR][/HR]​
When you get your quote from shox.com... theres that box at the bottom that asks if you want to add any additional information... *be sure to tell them you are a vwvortex.com member and want the vortex discount* I heard this from someone else a couple weeks back and when I sent in my quote I got them for $499 instead of the $579 they would normally quote you. Thats quite a savings!!!
mine came out to $519 shipped to my door








a word of warning though... they ARE backordered!!! you can guarantee youself a kit if you order soon though... Daryl at shox.com told me mine should ship out ot me on the 18th of march.


----------



## Eric O (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Yup - backordered - I have mine on order from shox.com as well.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Thanks for the article, Dani! I can't believe I missed this article. I probably would have bought the ProSystem much earlier if I did... Then again, there's a reason why I don't read EC, and now I remember why: they are just too positive in their reviews... not objective enough. I guess you have to be nice to your advertisers, but they take it too far. Nevertheless, lots of decent info in the article if you can apply the standard EC sugar filter. //---
Hmm... those mystery sport shocks (blue line) in the shock dyno graphs look familiar to me. I think they might be Tokico Performance (aka Tokico Blues), although as luck would have it, I can't find the darn graph when I need it!


[Modified by catalytic, 12:33 AM 2-22-2002]


----------



## chuming (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

hey catalytic or anyone who has a prosystem on their mk4,
I know you touch on this before. But I just want to get your impression on how the prosystem feels on rough roads compared to stock. Is the prosystem still pretty rough on the backside on these types of roads? What about going higher speed on these rougher roads, say 80-100 kph.
Am I gonna regret getting the prosystem and complain that it's too stiff If I am basicly a commuter that drives on mediocre to good roads?


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (chuming)*

IMO, the Jetta will NOT give you great ride comfort on bumpy roads no matter what suspension you have on it. The wheelbase is just too short, and its suspension configuration/layout/materials is not even remotely close to being state of the art. For example, where is the aluminum to reduce unsprung mass? Where is the superior subframe isolation like you have on Audis and BMW's? Where is the differential isolation techniques for steering/lateral links vs. weight bearing links? Where is the multilink virtual steering axis setup in the front? Where is the multilink independent rear suspension? If you were looking for BMW level handling vs. ride comfort tradeoff, good luck. It's not going to happen with the Mk4 chassis. 
Having said that, you are not going to find a better aftermarket suspension system for the Mk4 in terms of ride comfort. The initial impact is harsher than stock, but the superior damping allows for better motion control. That means while you will "notice" the bump more in the beginning, you won't be physically tossed around as much as with the underdamped stock suspension.
Ride comfort is very important to me as well. I have gone to great lengths to research what is the best aftermarket suspension system on the market in terms of improving handling while retaining as much ride comfort as possible. I am still convinced that Eibach ProSystem is the best choice, given that criteria.


[Modified by catalytic, 12:47 PM 2-22-2002]


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## Hemlock (Jul 28, 1999)

*driver found*

pro-system ordered. the vortex discount is the bomb.
The guy I talked to indicated that these may not be back ordered, he's going to look and back to me. It's fine if they are. If I can I'll wait until I auto-x with the stock suspension so I can get that night and day difference. (I know this isn't the best set up for auto-x, but if I get into it'll be for the 2 mile grin on my face, not some plastic trophy.)
that ec article (even with the sugar coating filter on) helped nudge me. An upgraded suspension that doesn't make you urinate blood after a road trip AND it doesn't "slam" the car for $500 and it has a lifetime warranty?
run, don't walk.


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## GTEYE 18T (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Kick A$$ review. Do you work for eurotuner or european car? Anyways, now I am even more convinced to get it. I do have a question how are you taking driveways and dips. I really hate slowing down and coming in an angle too much on these. How is your experience? I know 1.2" all around shouldn't put too much difficulty on dips and driveways.


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## Eric O (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (GTEYE 18T)*

shox.com is the best - when I bought, I didn't know about the vwvortex member discount, and was quoted a price based on the $579 standard shox.com quote. I already had the order placed based on that price, and e-mailed asking for the $499 vwvortex member price - and without a hassle, I was given the lower price!!!!!
Now, if they could wave a magic wand and make them appear before the end of March . . . . . . .


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (GTEYE 18T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Kick A$$ review. Do you work for eurotuner or european car?[HR][/HR]​Heh, you mean do I get paid to drive some of the nicest cars in the world every week, write about how much I enjoyed it, and then get to call that my job? ... Not in this lifetime.








quote:[HR][/HR]I do have a question how are you taking driveways and dips. I really hate slowing down and coming in an angle too much on these. How is your experience? I know 1.2" all around shouldn't put too much difficulty on dips and driveways.[HR][/HR]​Haven't noticed any problems yet, but then again, I try not to go too fast up/down driveway ramps. With the stock sport suspension, it would not be uncommon to bottom out coming out of driveways and going over vicious dips. These days, I don't recall a time where I have actually worried about bottoming out like I used to. 
As for scrapage, since I have a stock front valence (which is quite high off the ground), I don't think I ever made contact with the road going in/out of driveways. If you have a body kit with front and rear extensions (or valences that simply extend lower), you will have to watch it, but if you leave the front stock, I don't forsee any scrapage unless you take driveways at unreasonable speeds -- in which case, the blame should not rest with the suspension, but with the driver. Not good for the car no matter what suspension you have on there. //--
Here's a story I'd like to share with you. I had a car full of people going out this evening, and I was very impressed with the amount of control I still had. Sometimes when you have a fully loaded car, it becomes a handful to control because the suspension has trouble controlling all that weight. I feel that the progressive nature of the shocks, which not only helped eliminate the bottoming situations I described in the above paragrah, also helped increase damping to match the extra weight. 


[Modified by catalytic, 2:50 AM 2-23-2002]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Hmm... those mystery sport shocks (blue line) in the shock dyno graphs look familiar to me. I think they might be Tokico Performance (aka Tokico Blues), although as luck would have it, I can't find the darn graph when I need it![HR][/HR]​Aha! Found it.








Taken from http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/car/performance.html
The Tokico shock dyno looks remarkably like the blue line on the force-velocity graph shown in the EC article:










[Modified by catalytic, 3:05 AM 2-23-2002]


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## rsdell (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Hey Catalytic:
You were very helpful the other day, so I figured I would ask you another question. On my 2001 Jetta W.E., I will probably go with the pro system first. When my tires wear out I want to go a little wider but keep my BBS rims, hoping to add a little extra grip in the twisties. The question to you is this: do wheel spacers also help in the handling department?
Thanks


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (rsdell)*

rsdell, 
Wheel spacers serve two main functions: 1. to get the wheels/tires away from the suspension components to prevent rubbing (important for those who get wheels/tires significantly bigger than stock), 2. to make the car look better by having the wheels pushed out to the sides.
Roll may be reduced slightly due to the wider track, but it is considered more of a side effect than a reason to get spacers, as the improvement in handling is rather minor.
If you want to kick things up a notch in the tire department, you could do a Plus Zero upgrade which you are currently thinking of by stepping up to high performance 225/50-16 tires, or you could go to a Plus One upgrade with 225/45-17 tires on 17" wheels, which would give you superior steering feel and responsiveness, providing you willing to trade a bit of ride comfort for superior control.
Personally, I feel that 17's are the sweet spot with respect to the handling vs. comfort compromise. 16's I feel don't offer enough control with their taller sidewall, and represent a "bottleneck" when used on a car with a performance suspension. OTOH, 18's compromise ride quality too much for my taste. 
Having said that, however, if you are doing a Plus Zero upgrade to truly high performance tires, they are going to be so much better than the stock tires that it should be a worthwhile upgrade as well.


----------



## rsdell (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic:
If I keep my 16" BBS rims, because I really like them. What tire would you recommend that is either a H or V rated. I drive 3-4000 miles/month, and I don't plan on going over 120 mph. Is the Tire Rack a good option?
Thanks again


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (rsdell)*

There are a few details that we need to know before choosing a tire... for example, what are your winter traction needs? How important is ride comfort and quietness to you? Are you willing to get separate winter/summer tires/wheels?
Just as with choosing a suspension system, there are tradeoffs to be made, because some characteristics are mutually exclusive. For example, the ultimate dry performance tire must compromise winter and wet performance, in addition to ride comfort. COnversely, if you are willing to go with separate winter/summer "sets", then you don't have to compromise as much for either road condition.
So, the ball is back in your court. What are your requirements and where do your preferences lie?
RE: TireRack... apparently very good from what I've heard. I've avoided buying from them due to the high shipping cost of heavy/bulky items such as tires/wheels to Canada.


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## rsdell (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic:
All excellent questions, so I'll do my best to describe how I drive and what I'm looking for. I currently live in connecticut where we usually have some snow (except this winter was a real wuz of a winter). I am in sales and drive from MA to VA all the time. I thought of getting snows this year, but I bought my car at the end of sept. and I figured I try out my tires, no problems, but barely any snow. I know that next year snows probably be bought. If I upgrade my suspension, I know I will drive the twisties a little quicker. I worry more about rain vs. snow. I would prefer a tire not to hard so my fillings won't fall out, and I try not to go to fast on the high end because getting caught doing 125 would be a major problem.
I currently have 15,500 on miles current tires and Im driving a lot, so I figure I'll get new tires soon. Especially if I have the new suspension.
Bottom Line:
I will need a good set of performance tires that won't get me killed in the rain and won't jar me loose. 
Thanks


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (rsdell)*

Here are 3 tires that come to mind:
Dunlop SP 5000
Dunlop SP Sport A2
Firestone SH30
The Dunlop SP 5k is the highest performer and fastest wearing of the three, and the Firestone is the longest lasting and trades away a bit of performance to achieve that (I'm not sure how much you value treadlife, but you said you do rack up the miles). The Dunlop SP Sport A2 is the slightly better performer compared to the Firestone, but the SP 5k is basically in a higher "performance bracket" altogether. All of these high performance all-season tires are known to have good wet weather performance, and adequate light snow performance (just in case you have to drive through some of the white stuff without your snows... speaking of which, if you want info on snows, see this thread).
As for the sizing, a Plus Zero fitment with 225/50-16 would be fine, as would the stock 205/55-16 size. You might get a little increase in grip with 225's, but it wouldn't otherwise improve your handling because the 6.5" rims aren't really made for 225 mm tires. The Firestone SH30 does not seem to be available in the 225/50-16 size, so you should stick with the stock 205/55-16 if you purchase them.
Myself, I would go with the SP 5k, but then again, I don't even drive a quarter of the distance you drive every year. Some ballpark estimates of treadlife (and depending on how you drive, your mileage, literally, may vary):
Dunlop SP 5000: 45-55 k miles
Dunlop SP Sport A2: 50-60 k miles
Firestone SH30: 55-65 k miles


[Modified by catalytic, 2:10 AM 2-25-2002]


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## rsdell (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic:
Thanks for the tire info. I remember somewhere in your thread you mentioned you researched a lot of suspension systems. I was looking at the H&R sport spring/Bilstein sport shock system at awe-tuning. How does that compare to the eibach system, besides in cost $639.00


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (rsdell)*

The H&R Sport springs are slightly lower (1.4" lowering vs. 1.25") and stiffer (by about 10%) than the Eibach ProKit springs, and the Bilstein Sport shocks are a little stiffer than the "progressive" ProDampers, especially during initial piston travel and through lower piston velocities. 
Thus, the H&R Bilstein combo will give you better handling, but less ride comfort than the ProSystem. A very good choice for those who want something a little more aggressive than the ProSystem. Having said that, if I wanted to go a bit more aggressive, I would personally add a 25 mm rear sway to the ProSystem instead of going the H&R Bilstein route.


[Modified by catalytic, 6:32 PM 2-25-2002]


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I have the Dunlop SP5000's on the stock16" rims and the difference over the stock tires is absolutely unreal. The amount of slop that was removed by getting rid of the Michelins completely transformed the character of the car almost as much as the suspension!!!
I have about 25000 miles on these and am getting ready to replace them with the same tires... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chuming (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Thought I'd throw this into the discusion. I just talked shox.com, the guy there told me that the prodampers were really crappy. He said, they're made by sachs and he has had returns on 3 of them very recently. Granted they probably sell tons of pro-dampers and what are 3 sets, but still it made me wonder. He stated that he able to push down on these defective dampers with his hands and they would compress. He was obviously underwhelmed by them. I then asked him about the whole "dampers matched to the pro-kit springs" and it's inherent advantage. He said "It's just a marketing ploy" "Eibach makes the best springs in the world but they don't know how to make shocks." "They just buy them from sachs and paint them over and put their logo on it." He then proceeded to recommend bilsteins for me instead of the prodampers to use with the pro-kit.
I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on this (esp. you, catalytic). I know you had mentioned using stock shocks with the prokit or vw/eibach spring will be underdamped, but will there be much a difference b/w the prodampers and bilsteins? I guess I'm a little concerned about the pro-dampers at this point but I'm also skeptical. Wondering if the salesman is trying to push a pricier item. Bilsteins are more than a hundred dollars more then prodampers. I also know that bilsteins are to shocks what eibach are to springs. So why not use the two in combo?
rob.


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (BryanH)*

What size are you running, BryanH?


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (chuming)*

Finally, something negative about the ProDampers/ProSystem.







It honestly seemed like a PD/PS love-in here, with nary a negative comment: post after post filled with praises. 
Anyways, I understand your concern, because I went through that doubting phase about a year and a half ago, when someone said they called shox.com and the salesman told them not to buy them because they had customers returning the defective/unsatisfactory Sachs-made units, etc. Some of the veterans may remember jleung's excellent posts in 2000 during his quest for the perfect suspension, which eventually led him to Eibach + Bilstein combo after being scared away from the ProDampers (yes, I have been around long before I adopted catalytic as my username). I remember he was very slightly disappointed as he was hoping for a little more ride comfort, but still found it to be an excellent combo.
What happened in the next year or so was that nobody bought Eibach ProDampers or ProSystems, and there was a complete lack of information about them from fellow vortexers because none of us were using them in our cars. It took a few intrepid individuals in 2001 (Jorge, Phil, Don, John, and a couple others whose names I forget) to take a leap of faith to install them and tell their fellow vortexers about their experiences with them. 
As far as I know, they all like their ProSystems and have not had any problems with their ProDampers. If you add myself to that list, that's about 7 people on the Vortex who are satisfied with their ProSystems, and I haven't heard a single negative complaint.
quote:[HR][/HR] I then asked him about the whole "dampers matched to the pro-kit springs" and it's inherent advantage. He said "It's just a marketing ploy"[HR][/HR]​If you drive my ProSystem equipped Jetta, you would realize that the damping is very well engineered, and matches the spring very well. If that's a marketing ploy, then I wish every suspension company used marketing ploys, because they appear to work!
quote:[HR][/HR]"Eibach makes the best springs in the world but they don't know how to make shocks." They just buy them from sachs and paint them over and put their logo on it." [HR][/HR]​Well, first of all, it's not rocket science to know how to make springs; it's just a tube of steel wound into a shape of a coil. Shocks are far harder to design and produce. That's why it makes sense for a spring company (Eibach) to ask a shock company (Sachs) to make it for them, with certain characteristics in mind (progressive rate, particular damping characteristics). Fortunately, Sachs is one of the largest shock companies in the world, and make thousands of OE and aftermarket shocks for vehicles all over the world, following the ISO 9002 quality standard. Eibach never hid the fact that they are Sachs-made. In fact, my ProDampers didn't even have Eibach painted on them (nor on my springs, either!), but they did say Made by Sachs on it.
quote:[HR][/HR]He then proceeded to recommend bilsteins for me instead of the prodampers to use with the pro-kit.[HR][/HR]​The Bilsteins are a good alternative, as are Konis. The Bilsteins are stiffer than the ProDampers, and would give you a slightly harsher ride with a little better handling. Konis split the difference when set to full soft. They are all awesome shock absorbers; it just depends what kind of ride/handling compromise you're willing to live with.
As for why shox.com is pushing the Bilsteins? I don't want to say they're lying, but it just so happens that they are out of stock on the ProDampers for another month or so. What would you do if you were a salesman? Ask the customer to wait, knowing he/she could go anywhere else to make their purchase, or sell them a substitute product to get the sale now? As they say, "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush"


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## BryanH (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (keycom)*

stock size.
And I am gonna have to go with Catalytic on this one...sounds like a salesman trying to get a commission now rather than next month...


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## Hemlock (Jul 28, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (BryanH)*

So in the EC article that's posted on page 3 of this thread, the part that's missing is that this guy, John Willis, takes a Sachs shock or strut, puts it on the shock dyno or installs it, and then provides feedback to Sachs on what needs to happen. I don't have a problem with this, I'm just clarifying for myself.
This model makes a lot of sense from a economic angle. It's somethign that's been going on for a long time. Look at all the Jetta's designed in Germany but built in Pueblo. Perhaps more applicable is to look at the bicycle industry. Almost all the good mountain bikes are design in the US, but the actual build is done oversees (Chine, Korea, etc.).
I imagine that the bad round of Pro-Dampers resulted in Eibach having a not very pleasant meeting with their opposite numbers at Sachs. The result is the "new" PDs. If Eibach is willing to stand behind these with a lifetime warranty. . . well. . . you can't ask for much more than that. That's something Weitec isn't willing to do and that's part of what made me drop them from consideration. (That and as a daily driver, 40mm was too much of a drop for me.)
The other thing is that, I'm sure shox.com can't be making too much coin on these. $499 isn't that much more than *just *a set of Bilstein HDs. Since the Bilstein is a premium item, I'm certain that there is more mark up there, therefore it's more profitable.
I just got my invoice from shox.com. Looks like they are drop shipping direct from Eibach, my ship date is ASAP, but they have yet to charge my card.
Chum: did you get the vortex price on the pro-kit? I'm curious as to what it was.


[Modified by Hemlock, 2:40 PM 2-27-2002]


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## chuming (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Hemlock)*

$166 for the pro-kit. same as yours.


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## SCK (Jul 13, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic - Thanks for all these information. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now I'm convinced to go for Eibach ProSystem instead of H&R with Koni (there's a gb on Koni Yellow going on, and I was going to hit that reply button, oh well, sorry for the guy who organize that gb.







) Beside the limited budget, a balance between comfort and preformence is also important for me. 
Now I have a question, you mentioned that Shox.com were selling it at $570US, but I checked their web site, they posted the ProSystem kit at $915USD!!!







Was this the price they posted at the time you ordered yours? Or they actually marked up the price because of the increasing demand (thanks to VWVortex)??


----------



## tulmad (Apr 10, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (SCK)*

Call them and ask for the vwvortex discount. I got the system at $499 with $30 shipping and no tax. The $900+ price is if you don't get a quote from them. Quoted it's down around $550. They're running a special for $499 for all of us vortexers, but you have to call and ask for it.
Now if only they'd ship it to me... They told me March 15th one day, and the following day told me "late March".
Tim


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (tulmad)*

I swear, Eibach and shox.com should pay me a referral fee for this thread...


----------



## SCK (Jul 13, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (tulmad)*

tulmad,
thanks. I'll ask them for the vortex discount. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
catalytic - Yeah, they definately get couple of extra sales because of your thread...


----------



## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (SCK)*

quote:[HR][/HR] you mentioned that Shox.com were selling it at $570US, but I checked their web site, they posted the ProSystem kit at $915USD!!! [HR][/HR]​Are you sure that not's the price for the ProSystem +? It's the + that's the kicker. The "plus" adds the front and rear sway bars to the ProSystem springs and dampers.


----------



## Eric O (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

catalytic - they should definitely do something nice for you. I was on the fence regarding what suspension setup I was going to go with and hadn't even heard of the ProSystem kit. Your review - plus some comments from others - got me interested, and the more I read, the more it sounded like what I wanted. So I am on that "late March" waiting list.


----------



## lab_rat (Jun 26, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Eric O)*

This is one of the best threads I have read on the vortex - I was actually going to get the H&R cupkit, but then I read this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ...I drive alot of highway miles (just rolled 80K in 4 years), so I really feel that the Prosystem+ is the way for me to go now. I'll be calling shox.com very soon!








Thanks again to all who replied with their comments/opinions on this suspension setup vs. others.


----------



## vwgreek (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (lab_rat)*

I ordered a kit because of this thread, too. They told me that shipping would be April 1st. They must be getting quite a few orders.


----------



## Jenkins (Apr 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

catalytic, I heard from feedbacks from owner who had sachs kit, that the damp was good for the first 1 year or so, but then it will start to sag after a yr of usage. So I am not sure if the bad review for prodamper is in this context or not.
I just saw the difference between two passat with same sachs kit setup. The one that has sachs just setup has 2 fingers gap between the wheel & fender. The other whose setup is more than a year has 1.5 finger (well, can't squeeze in the 2nd finger







) .. so that kinda in line with the feedback above.
wonder if you are facing the same situation (or am I quoting something that's the same for the rest of the shocks?)


----------



## Y2KVR6GTI (Aug 16, 1999)

Anyone know of a company that actually has the Pro kit System in stock? I've been trying to get this setup for about two months now with no luck (tried shox.com, tire rack, local shops, etc..). At first they all said late Feb, then mid March, now April 1st. All the while, my new wheels and tires have been sitting in the garage for the past 8 weeks taunting me.







I'd put the wheels on now, but I should get an allignment before doing so. Then of course I'd have to get another when the suspension gets done.



[Modified by Y2KVR6GTI, 7:19 AM 3-9-2002]


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jenkins)*

quote:[HR][/HR]catalytic, I heard from feedbacks from owner who had sachs kit, that the damp was good for the first 1 year or so, but then it will start to sag after a yr of usage. So I am not sure if the bad review for prodamper is in this context or not.
I just saw the difference between two passat with same sachs kit setup. The one that has sachs just setup has 2 fingers gap between the wheel & fender. The other whose setup is more than a year has 1.5 finger (well, can't squeeze in the 2nd finger







) .. so that kinda in line with the feedback above.
wonder if you are facing the same situation (or am I quoting something that's the same for the rest of the shocks?)[HR][/HR]​Jenkins,
Sagging is a phenomenon that is related to springs. It has nothing to do with shocks. Eibach springs may sag a little more because they are not as stiff as H&R or Neuspeed. That's why they are a little more comfortable. It's to be expected from all springs, though. As I mentioned in my initial review, I expect them to go from 1.1" lowering from when I first installed the ProSystem to around 1.3" by the end of the year.


----------



## MacBoat (Sep 25, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I'm getting a '02 Jetta Wagon 1.8t 5-spd. It's coming with the sport lux pkg. I'm adding an Autotech rear sway bar. I'm thinking of getting the ProSystem to round out my suspension upgrades. I don't want something too stiff, but I want a little more performance and lowering than what is offererd from the sport suspension. Can anyone describe the difference to me between the sport suspension from VW and the ProSystem?
Thanks for your help!


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (MacBoat)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Can anyone describe the difference to me between the sport suspension from VW and the ProSystem?[HR][/HR]​Did you read the first post of this thread? That's what the whole review was based on. I replaced the factory sport suspension with the ProSystem.


----------



## MacBoat (Sep 25, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Doh! I took me so long to get through the thread, I forgot you started with the lux package! BTW, thanks for the great info.


----------



## tulmad (Apr 10, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (MacBoat)*

crap crap CRAP! I just got a call from Tom over at shox.com with some REALLY bad news. My system, originally thought to ship this week, won't be able to get to me till May 1. Not sure if I really want to wait that long for it. Any know of another place I can get it from? Other pricing at all?
Tim


----------



## Y2KVR6GTI (Aug 16, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (tulmad)*

quote:[HR][/HR]crap crap CRAP! I just got a call from Tom over at shox.com with some REALLY bad news. My system, originally thought to ship this week, won't be able to get to me till May 1. Not sure if I really want to wait that long for it. Any know of another place I can get it from? Other pricing at all?
Tim[HR][/HR]​quote:[HR][/HR]Anyone know of a company that actually has the Pro kit System in stock? I've been trying to get this setup for about two months now with no luck (tried shox.com, tire rack, local shops, etc..). At first they all said late Feb, then mid March, now April 1st. All the while, my new wheels and tires have been sitting in the garage for the past 8 weeks taunting me.
Y2KVR6GTI[HR][/HR]​Now it's May?!! If you find a place that has them, let me know. I've been waiting a long while too.







Maybe I need to consider another brand. 




[Modified by Y2KVR6GTI, 12:57 PM 3-11-2002]


----------



## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (tulmad)*

quote:[HR][/HR]crap crap CRAP! I just got a call from Tom over at shox.com with some REALLY bad news. My system, originally thought to ship this week, won't be able to get to me till May 1. Not sure if I really want to wait that long for it. Any know of another place I can get it from? Other pricing at all?
Tim[HR][/HR]​argg!! when did you order yours??? I ordered mine around 2-18... and was told they would ship 3-18
I'm wondering if ALL orders were backlogged to may... or if they only got enough kits in the fill only part of the orders and those who ordered first got their kits shipped first.
I havnt heard anything from shox.com since they called and told me the ship date of the 18th.... 
Did you get the pro-system, or the pro-system plus?


----------



## Y2KVR6GTI (Aug 16, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]argg!! when did you order yours??? I ordered mine around 2-18... and was told they would ship 3-18
I'm wondering if ALL orders were backlogged to may... or if they only got enough kits in the fill only part of the orders and those who ordered first got their kits shipped first. [HR][/HR]​
My order was placed around Mid to Late January. I remember 'cause I wanted to be sure to get them installed in time for the 1552 Design Show on 2/18. I was told at first early-mid Feb for delivery, then March 22, Heard Mid April from a friend that also ordered, now I see May 1st. I don't think it's a Shox.com problem, but Eibach themselves. I've been calling around and have been getting the same response...Eibach has not shipped anything out. The Dampers are supposedly the holdup. Anyone have experience with H&R with Bilstein Sports?




[Modified by Y2KVR6GTI, 6:38 PM 3-11-2002]


----------



## tulmad (Apr 10, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]argg!! when did you order yours??? I ordered mine around 2-18... and was told they would ship 3-18[HR][/HR]​I ordered mine on March 1. I had called the day before and was told they would ship March 15. Then I called the 1st to order them, and was told "late March". Today I get a call and they tell me May 1.
quote:[HR][/HR]I'm wondering if ALL orders were backlogged to may... or if they only got enough kits in the fill only part of the orders and those who ordered first got their kits shipped first.
I havnt heard anything from shox.com since they called and told me the ship date of the 18th.... 
Did you get the pro-system, or the pro-system plus?[HR][/HR]​I got the pro-system. The guy told me that Eibach gets all of the parts straight from Germany and that they are having some trouble with their distributor over there. I'm gonna give EVO a call tomorrow and see if they can tell me anything different. It's definitely not a problem with shox.com, but more of a problem with Eibach not being able to meet the demand.
What I'm wondering (still haven't called EVO, gonna do that in a minute) is whether it's just the ProDampers that are backlogged. If I can still get the springs for a good deal from Shox.com, and get the dampers elsewhere, I might do that instead.
Tim


[Modified by tulmad, 9:03 AM 3-12-2002]


----------



## Clovis (Feb 26, 2002)

I just called shox.com regarding the Eibach Pro-System and they told me that the kits should be shipping in three weeks (first or second week of April). Has any one else heard this or was the sales guy just telling me that?








I didn't order the kit yet. 


[Modified by Clovis, 11:04 AM 3-15-2002]


----------



## SCK (Jul 13, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Clovis)*

As you may already know (from another post), I got the reply from "[email protected]", they said Eibach's guess is end of April.
I'm ok with that, and I placed my order already because I want to secure my vortex discount.


----------



## MotoMannequin (Aug 2, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (SCK)*

Mine's been on order since late Feb. They originally told me 15 Mar, this afternoon they told me 5 Apr.


----------



## Rave2Nite (Sep 29, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

sick I plan on gettin them


----------



## Jenkins (Apr 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave2Nite)*

I am revisiting this thread again.
4 months ago, I decided to go for bilstein sport, with my existing eibach spring (prokit I believe)
now, the shock has not arrived yet, and my patience has run out.
I am going for sachs performance set now, which I think it's the prosystem that you guys have in states. It consists of eibach spring plus its own progressive damper, pretty much like what catalytic says in his first post in this thread.
any comments?


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## MarcinB (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jenkins)*

This was one informative thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I think Im still going to go with the Weitec 40mm kit for $350 cant beat the price 3 yr warranty is ok for me. since I live in Cali we dont have snow and the roads are ok I can have the 1.6" drop without loosing a swet, still one of the best threads I have read yet


----------



## Jenkins (Apr 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jenkins)*

btw, got one question on the various dampers...
I understand the primary function of damper is to absorb the kinetic energy produced by the spring, and to ensure that the spring does not rebounce too much creating an bumpy ride. And a stiff damper will limit the rebounce to make it a harsh ride. Am I right to say the effect of over/under damp?
If the damper is under damp, won't it shorten the lifespan of the spring? 
thanks, this thread is indeed very informative, I am learning quite a fair bit from it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jenkins)*

The Sachs kit should be good. I don't know if it's the same as the ProSystem, but probably pretty close. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for your damping scenarios, I think you got most of it right. I would say that actual impact harshness is more due to stiff springs and firm compression damping. Rebound damping does not affect impact harshness as much as compression damping would. 
On the other hand, since rebound damping needs to be matched to the spring rate, you can indirectly say that firm rebound damping means that you will have a harsh ride, but that is partly based on the assumption that stiffer springs are being used.
BTW, how do you like the Accumat sound insulation? I want to instulate my Jetta from some of the road and wind noise.


[Modified by catalytic, 1:11 AM 4-15-2002]


----------



## Jenkins (Apr 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

hi catalytic,
thanks for the validation, I think I roughly know the basic engineering of suspension















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
for the accumat, personally, I feel that the insulation is only reduced marginally, possibly 10-20%. In fact, after insulation, the wind noise is more obvious, while the engine noise are more defined, previously, it was a simple roar








as for road noise, it's less significant, but if you are looking for a "lexus-like" ride, then no imo insulation does not help much. possibly the firewall needs to be insulated as well, but that's a tough job for most installers. I only went for floorpan, front sidedoors & wheel arch.
My verdict is that it serves best for those who want to bring out their ICE effect, but not so much for those who want to cut away the noise totally ...


----------



## Jenkins (Apr 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

btw, catalytic,
after using for 4 months or so, do you find the ride getting better, or the spring starts to sag/settle further down?


----------



## Rapt (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Great review but I think you're selling the car's snow performance waaaayyyy short. 
I have some friend who live about 40 km off the beaten track, and I drove that route on unplowed back roads with 6" of snow, dragging all the way. Handled hills, curves etc with no problems, other than some wheelspin when I got in the gas too much. I even had the stock all season tires on, snow tires would make it better still.


----------



## Jenkins (Apr 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

finally.. I fitted sachs performance set in my car. IT seems to have the same combi as the eibach prosystem sold in States and the spring has a eibach name imprinted on it.
the fitment causes the wheel gap drops to 35mm front, and 45mm rear. Sorry, didnt' measure how much the car was drop by.
As I was previously on stock suspension, I find less comfort in the ride, by 10%. The ride is firm but bumps are more pronounced than previous, possibly attributed by the shorter spring with a firmer damp. Still, if the damp is not too firm to make the ride too hash. I think.
Handling is also much better than stock, cornering now more confident, and holding on the steering wheel makes me feel more control of the car. Yes, overtaking now seems much easier given the better handling of the car.
All in all, I think the set up is value-for-money for people who jsut want to drop the car without degrading the car ride (compared to stock). To me, that's what I am looking for, the improved handling is a bonus to me, rather than a must, since I don't do tracking or street racing.







I agree that for those hardcore, coilover is still probably the best.
cost me about $530 USD for the entire setup.


----------



## reflexiv (Jul 2, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jenkins)*

quote:[HR][/HR]on their way ... VOTEX v6 front+rear color-coded valences :: MAGNAFLOW exhaust tip :: BILSTEIN damper :: EIBACH spring [HR][/HR]​Cool, that's what I always thought about the Eibach pro-system--that it was very similar to the Sachs Sporting Set. Time to change your sig! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jenkins (Apr 17, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (reflexiv)*

quote:[HR][/HR]on their way ... VOTEX v6 front+rear color-coded valences :: MAGNAFLOW exhaust tip :: BILSTEIN damper :: EIBACH spring 
Cool, that's what I always thought about the Eibach pro-system--that it was very similar to the Sachs Sporting Set. Time to change your sig! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​
haha .. updated my sig already.
personally .. I am very satisified with the handling. But I have friend with similiar setup find that understeer is still there, compared to his previous koni/eibach setup, but definitely more comfortable than that. Even his wife remarked that the new setup is much more comfortable








here's my car after the drop


















[Modified by Jenkins, 1:21 AM 4-19-2002]


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jeckyll)*

*Recent thoughts on my ProSystem*
Now that I have had my ProSystem for a good 4 months, I have some additional comments on my setup. Remember that I have since installed the Autotech LF tiebar + poly CA bushings and have switched back to my summer set a long time ago (seems like not soon enough... darn soft snow tires).
Anyways, I find the following:
1. Still very pleased with the ProSystem's ability to improve handling over the factory sport suspension with a small increase in impact harshness.
2. Glad I got the LF tiebar and poly bushings, which added some rigidity to the front end, but it highlights the fact that the front and rear ends of the chassis aren't working together. Could use a 25 mm rear bar to reduce understeer and sharpen response. 
3. The progressive design of the dampers that is key to the superior ride comfort also makes for what I feel is a slight lack of both compression and rebound damping at low piston velocity and displacement compared to say the Bilsteins, which are more responsive to these smaller suspension inputs. Unfortunately, this would reduce ride comfort and isolation, and I am not sure if I am willing to make the sacrifice. I wouldn't mind having less brake dive, though.
4. Also thinking of installing firmer (hard rubber or poly) strut mounts/bushings as well to take out some of that slop in the soft stock bushings that probably contributes to this lack of precision noted in #3, but again concerned about the reduction in ride comfort and isolation.
5. Currently experimenting with 8/20 spacers F/R... car feels a little funny due to the asymmetrical adjustments to the front and rear track widths. Essentially, I am reducing roll at the back, but not as much in the front. I want to use bigger spacers in the back because the rear wheels are set into the wheel wells quite a bit, but on our FWD cars, this is the opposite of what we should be doing for optimal handling. I'm thinking of using 15's in the front, but I don't want any rubbing problems with the lowered suspension. Anybody running 15 mm spacers in the front?


----------



## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

please go ahead and try the upper strut mounts!!! I want to see your opinions on them in conjunction with the pro-system and the poly A-arm bushings so I know what route to take if and when my pro-system shows up








I already have the 25mm rear bar http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm also wondering if its possible to source the harder rear trailing arm bushings from a 25th or 337 edition car? Or does someone make harder bushings for them already? I havnt come accross any....
anyways... go ahead and get the strut mounts and the 25mm rear bar and then I'm gonna come ride in your car and see how I like it heh


----------



## SCK (Jul 13, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Hey Catalytic,
Did your ProSystem get softer as it breaks in? I had mine installed about 4 weeks ago, now it seems to be a lot softer than when it was new. (More comfort ride, but more roll during cornering) I'm considering to get Neuspeed 25mm anti-sway now because of this rolling.


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## tulmad (Apr 10, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (SCK)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Hey Catalytic,
Did your ProSystem get softer as it breaks in? I had mine installed about 4 weeks ago, now it seems to be a lot softer than when it was new. (More comfort ride, but more roll during cornering) I'm considering to get Neuspeed 25mm anti-sway now because of this rolling.[HR][/HR]​I don't have the ProSystem, but I have the Pro-Kit springs with Koni shocks. Mine did the same thing. I have a little more roll, and a bit of the squat/dive came back again. It's definitely not as pronounced as it was with the stock (non-sport) suspension though. I'm thinking of getting a rear sway, but want to get an front strut brace first.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I'm also wondering if its possible to source the harder rear trailing arm bushings from a 25th or 337 edition car? Or does someone make harder bushings for them already? I havnt come accross any....[HR][/HR]​A while back, I heard that those of us with the hydraulic bushing equipped rear axle must physically swap the entire rear axle for a rubber bushing version first for some reason or another. I don't know why or how, but this is what I heard. Energy Suspension was planning to make some rear suspension bushings for our cars, but they have not yet and may not get around to it.
quote:[HR][/HR]anyways... go ahead and get the strut mounts and the 25mm rear bar and then I'm gonna come ride in your car and see how I like it heh







[HR][/HR]​You know, I would get the HD mounts and rear bar just to see if you would come all the way from New Mexico


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (SCK, tulmad)*

SCK, tulmad:
Yes, it seems like my ProSystem did get a bit softer over the months. I think that may be true of most new suspensions, though. That, and you tend to get used to your setup so you keep wanting a little sharper handling, a little less roll, a little less squat/dive, etc. Same thing happens with engine mods, too. Right after you get chipped, it's amazing. After a couple months, you'll swear you need more power (well, with the VR6 anyways... don't have 230 HP like you 1.1 bar turbos).
I bet if I put you back in a bone stock MkIV with the base suspension (or removed your chip), you would sorely miss your aftermarket setup.


----------



## Rave2Nite (Sep 29, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

dose anyone know wether there is a difference between the sachs suspension kit and the ProSystem? what dose the sachs kit run in the way of stiffness? I found the sachs kit at New Dimentions hears the web address. http://www.vwaftermarket.com/catalo...ension&action=step_two&title=Sachs Suspension


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## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*They're coming?*

OK -
I just got off the phone with Mark at shox.com. I ordered myself an Eibach ProSystem (yes and I'm pretty psyched about that!!). He claimed that they have manifest shipping information that they should recieve them next week. i.e. Eibach has shipped them and they are on their way. 
Not sure if this is 100% true or not. We'll see in 2 weeks if I find a little brown truck shows up at my door.








Catalytic: I must say your well written and detailed posts are what swayed me to this system. I was wavering between a set of Weitec coilovers or this system and after reading what you wrote put me over the edge. 
So... they pay you commission right?


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (CTodd)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So... they pay you commission right?







[HR][/HR]​Shhhh! Darn cat, get back in that bag!


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## lpas304 (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: They're coming? (bergenvr6)*

Woohoo! You all have finally convinced me--I just hung up the phone with Shox.com a few minutes ago. As per Tom, the ProSystem is now in stock and I should have it within 7-10 working days (keeping fingers crossed that this will hold true). Thanks catalytic, for the great review and your words of reassurance. Now I can't wait!! 
*Julie


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## bergenvr6 (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: They're coming? (lpas304)*

just got off the phone with shox.com and they are in stock baby!!!!
i should have my Eibach Pro System mid-end of next week !!!


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: They're coming? (bergenvr6)*

Ok guys/gals... I'm ready to plunge right into this one. Pro System Plus here I go!!!
I'm pushing for $200 labor.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (2001Bora)*

People - don't forget to ask for the Vortex member discount! Usually, there is a place where you can enter comments / special instructions for quotes / ordering, etc. Last I recall, the Vortex price for the basic ProSystem was $499.


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## bergenvr6 (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: They're coming? (catalytic)*

yep. $499 + shipping for the ProSystem.
Now on to the autotech rear sway


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## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (bergenvr6)*

ladis and germs: I just got shipping notice for my System - will be here next week!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
WOO HOO!


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (CTodd)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ladis and germs: I just got shipping notice for my System - will be here next week!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
WOO HOO!







[HR][/HR]​DITTO!


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## DasRaven (Feb 24, 2002)

*Re: They're coming? (Rave'nGTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ladis and germs: I just got shipping notice for my System - will be here next week!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
WOO HOO!








DITTO![HR][/HR]​Awwww, Yeaahhh Dizzitto babay!


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## bergenvr6 (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: They're coming? (DasRaven)*

me too !!!








scheduled delivery date May 31


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## Eric O (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: They're coming? (bergenvr6)*

I didn't get any e-mail from shox.com indicating shipment of my system (been waiting since Feb). So, I called them today - my system shipped last Thursday, I should see it today! Woo hoo!


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## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (catalytic)*

Catalytic, the "pics" link in your sig isn't working. Is it just temporary? I'd like to see the before/after pics with the eibach. Oh, and great write up!
edit: Oh, I just saw that Jenkins posted before/after pics. Thanks, Jenkins!


[Modified by Gatorfreak, 2:32 PM 5-29-2002]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (Gatorfreak)*

Thanks for letting me know. I fixed the problem. Try it now.


----------



## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (catalytic)*

Wow... I never thought cars looked better lowered but I must say, the Jetta definitely looks better with a 1" drop from stock! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## David Cretney (Apr 27, 1999)

*Re: They're coming? (Gatorfreak)*

anyone got their prosystem installed yet? mine is riding around in the trunk waiting for a time I can get into the shop and get the coilovers off.


----------



## David Cretney (Apr 27, 1999)

*Re: They're coming? (David Cretney)*

I just got my prosystem installed and so far I like it.

Its hard for me to compare to stock since I have beeen riding on coilovers for a month and a half. The coilovers were too stiff for me as I am on some bumpy city streets 90% of the time.
My estimate is that the KW V1 coilovers eliminated 95% of dive and squat and 90% of body roll compared to stock.
My estimate is that teh Prosystem reduced roll by 50-65% and Dive and squat by 70%. The ride height is perfect for me, looks like 1.5" to me might be closer to 1.2/1.3 who knows I will have to measure the fender height later tonight.
The ride quality is great. Bumps, manholes are soaked up nicely. Quality must be 95% of stock. There is definately more body roll compared to coilovers though. For me this is the perfect compromise.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (David Cretney)*

Good to hear, David. Thanks for the feedback. Myself, I felt that the brake dive could be better controlled (but the roll reduction was... sufficient). However, the strut bushings are partly at fault here. When I replaced them with the VWMS units, my brake dive was further cut in half.
------
Everyone please post your feedback on the ProSystem in this thread. I hereby "dub" this *The Ultimate ProSystem User Review Thread*.



[Modified by catalytic, 6:42 PM 6-11-2002]


----------



## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: They're coming? (catalytic)*

As soon as I have the time to install mine I will post a review.
I also have a strut brace I plan to add as well. I'll try to review with and without that also.


----------



## xls (May 31, 2000)

*Snow chains?*

I have TT 5-spoke wheels (17") for the summer and the stock 15" for the winter.
Will I experience any rubbing with the Eibach ProSystem with the TT wheels? 
Will I have problems putting on snow chains on my 15" wheels with the ProSystem?


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Snow chains? (xls)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Will I experience any rubbing with the Eibach ProSystem with the TT wheels?[HR][/HR]​Absolutely not.
quote:[HR][/HR]Will I have problems putting on snow chains on my 15" wheels with the ProSystem?[HR][/HR]​No idea. Snow chains are illegal where most Canadians live. No matter, because snow tires are so good these days that you hardly need them if you live in a city with snow removal service.


----------



## xls (May 31, 2000)

*Re: Snow chains? (catalytic)*

Thanks for your reply, catalytic!
Snow chains are illegal in Canada? You guys have it good







I agree with you on good snow tires. Unfortunately Caltrans in California doesn't believe so. They make people put on snow chains if they don't have 4x4.








Anyone else have experience with this? (I have the cable type snow chains)


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Snow chains? (xls)*

Not illegal in all of Canada, but the majority of Canada I would say. I know it is in Ontario, and we all know it's the center of the universe, right, Western Canada?


----------



## David Cretney (Apr 27, 1999)

*Re: Snow chains? (catalytic)*

bump. anyone else have pros or cons about th eibach prosystem?
Post your comments and reviews here


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Snow chains? (David Cretney)*

Jeckyll recently installed his. He said he will post his review in the near future.


----------



## ecarlson (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: Snow chains? (David Cretney)*

Just got the system installed over the weekend and am really satisfied. I was afraid to put this setup on the car because I'm getting old (37) and didn't want to go too stiff. The suspension is just right. Light years beyond the stock suspension but not as taught as say an M3 Bimmer.
I've put about 300 miles on it since and no clunks, rattles, or sqweeks. The 60 mile an hour off-ramps are now 85 mile an hour ramps. Fun!
All of the tips in the other posts are right-on for installation. I couldn't get the 12-point Allen wrench for the passenger driveshaft in time. Instead I compressed my spring while still on the car and it gave me the additional clearance I needed without dropping the driveshaft.
Now I have a few questions....when I put it back together, the alignment seems perfect. Is it a bad idea not to spend the $120 bucks for the 4 wheel alignment? or should I only do the fronts? There doesn't seem like much in the back that can be adjusted anyway.
Also, Bilstein their struts are good for 100K-300K miles. Anybody have a guess or hear any claims for the Eibach setup? Just curious when I have to do this again.


----------



## Jeckyll (Feb 24, 2002)

*Longer review*

catalytic: first, those of us in the Western Provinces are well aware of your messed up "Ontario-centric" view...








Second, I posted a bit on my impressions of the pro-system after I'd first got it, got a bit more to say now:
I took the car for a drive through the twisties over the long weekend and have also had a chance to do some harder "around town" driving. 
Lets start with the "twisties". For this I took the car from Vancouver, B.C. half way towards Whistler (a mountain ski resort for those not familiar with the area and back:
I'm very impressed with how well the Jetta tracks. I purposly performed several fast lane changes at a good speed (i.e. 100 km/h and up) and the car handled those perfectly. A friend of mine was following in a V70 T5 volvo and he said the car looked very different now when performing quick maneuvers (Quote: "The f'ing thing looks like it's on rails") We drive together alot so it was interesting to get this respose from an external viewpoint, after all I've never seen what my car looks like at hard driving _from the outside_.
Druing this drive I purposly tried to upset the car, i.e. I would enter a high speed turn and brake and correct the line, to see if the car had any 'funny' responses. There was no "back end lift", like I'd experience with the factory suspension under similar conditions and the words that came to my mind were "confidence inspiring". 
In addition, on the way back into Vancouver we encountered several stretches of open road and while going through the turns at speed, my fiend had to cut accross the 2 lanes of highway to take most turns (we were travelling at 100 - 130 km/h) while I continued to stay in the outside lane just to see how the car would track. This was something I would never have attempted using the old suspension.
I should note that we drive that road very frequently so it makes a good 'test bed' .
On the final few stretches I did manage to find the "limits" of what the prosystem is able to handle. It was during a raising, decreasing radius fast right hand turn with a couple of good sized "dips" in the road, that I finally go a small bit of 'floating" in the rear end, but how often do you encounter that type of situation at around 115 - 120 km/h? I'm wondering if an aftermarket rear sway would eleviate this. Let me say though that most people I know would never take the car to that extreme. I was pushing it _hard_. At this point I have no plans to add any sway / strut bars.
Now for around town:
The increased stiffness is not really a big issue for me. While many bumps seem slightly harder, many others are absorbed much better. I found this especially crossing intersections with grooved pavement. In the past the car would seem to get loose and "float" while now it tracks much better. I attribute this purely to the prodampners. The stock suspension was underdampened and it showed. 
The only negative experience I had has been driving on an old section of "concrete slab" road where the ride was not as comfortable as before. It was not really bothersome, I'm just including it here for compleness sake.
So all in all I am still extremely happy with this system. I still think the drop is perfect and the car looks much better now. Having seen some pics of cars with spacers, I _may_ decide to add some to the rear in the future, but if so it will be some time.
I hope this info will help some of you out.


----------



## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Snow chains? (David Cretney)*

I have had my Pro-System on for about 7 months and have nothing but good to say about it. So far it has done all I needed it and comfortably. 
I am now going to switch over to Coilovers, so anyone that is looking for a good used Pro-System, drop me an IM or email.


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## xls (May 31, 2000)

*Re: Snow chains? (keegan)*

"It's alive!"








There's got to be someone who tried snowchains in a lowered car.
JeckyII, what are the spacers you mentioned? I assume those are not the spacers to change the offset of rims, correct? Can you change the ride height with those? Is that advisable? It sounds iffy to me but I know nothing.


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## Jeckyll (Feb 24, 2002)

*Re: Snow chains? (xls)*

Yeah spacers to move the wheels out. Do a search in the golf/jetta IV forum, catalytic had posted some pic's of his car with spacers. And no, they shouldn't change the ride hight.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Snow chains? (Jeckyll)*

You can also click the NEW PICS link in my sig if you want to see pics of the ProSystem with spacers


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I used to have Longbeach rims but sold them. What are the offsets on them?
To keep you updated, I found the rear axle bearings and know they will fit a Jetta. I am in the process of ordering (2) rear axle bearings, (2) wishbone rubber rear, (2) wishbone rubber front, and (2) strut rubber. All bushings are VWR parts.
I came across this and do not know if I need it - rubber bonded metal mount? It connects with the wishbone (CA) rubber front.
I'm debating on the spacers considering that its added unsprung weight and changes the geometry of the suspension.
I have OEM 18x7.5" BBS RC w/ OE 225/40 ZR18 Michelin Pilot Sports. The offset is 38mm.
Should be nice when my suspension project is completed. I'll keep this thread posted!
BTW, I have a 1.8T auto. The 1.8T will allow a closer-to-neutral handling due to less weight out front. The automatic will be dropped after college for a VWR 6-spd w/ built-in VWR LSD conversion. For now though, this suspension will counter the negatives of the dumb 4-spd automatic. I can probably stay composed in turns at higher speeds due to the auto transmission wanting to mindlessly go faster and faster (negative) but the suspension balances this situation by keeping the whole car planted (positive).


[Modified by 2001Bora, 5:17 PM 7-3-2002]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Long Beach is 7 x 17, 35 et. I suggest the 8 mm spacers (hubcentric version) in front and 15 mm spacers in back for your setup. The 7.5 x 18, 38 et setup you have are pushed out 3 mm more on each side than mine without the spacers; if you add the 8/15 spacer combo, your wheels will be pushed out 1 mm less in the front and 2 mm less in the rear than my Long Beach + 12/20 spacer combo. If you have seen my pics (see link in sig) and like the look, the 8/15 spacer combo is the one for you.
I am sure you will love the spacers. The 8/15 mm setup will improve your handling -- not affect it negatively. You only run into trouble if the F/R track increases are vastly different -- like if you had 15 mm spacers in back with nothing in the front. ... I have nothing but praise for my spacer setup. It cost a fortune, considering all that $ only bought me 4 aluminum discs and 20 wheel bolts... but I like what it has done for the look and the handling. Considering there have been no negative effects whatsoever, I would do it again. 
Where are you ordering all your VWR bushings from? And you are combining them with the ProSystem? What other suspension mods do you have / will you get? If you don't have a 25 mm NS or 28 mm Autotech rear sway, by all means get one. You will absolutely love your suspension when you complete the project. Heck, even I'm excited.








BTW, I had a friend test drive my car, and he had nothing but good things to say about the handling, steering feel, and ride comfort. This is coming from a person who owned an E36 M3.


[Modified by catalytic, 8:34 PM 7-3-2002]


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

VWR parts are from http://www.rallypartsireland.com/Default.asp
I was thinking about getting 8mm spacers front and rear from Bildon. Since I have OEM rims, I guess I don't need the hubcentric spacers.
I am getting the Eibach Pro System Plus which comes with the Eibach front/rear sway bars. Yes, I am combining the Eibach kit with front and rear suspension bushings. I am very excited because I do not personally know what to expect since I'm coming from a factory sport suspension.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Ireland, eh? I hope you don't get raped on the shipping and import charges








No no no... You absolutely should get hubcentric spacers, especially on the fronts. I had non-hubcentric 8's before I bought my 12's on the front. Bad news. I tried 3 times, but I could not get the spacers perfectly centered on the hub. As a result, around 65 mph, whenever I gave it the gas on the highway, I would get this shudder through the steering wheel because the imbalanced rotational mass. Might as well get hubcentric on the rears as well, as it will reduce wheel bearing wear. But the fronts absolutely should be hubcentric.
The 8/8 setup is probably ideal for handling, but it will look a little funny with the fronts sticking out more than the rears. ... but I guess you don't mind.
Another thing to remember with OEM rims is that you need the longer ball seat (aka radius seat) wheel bolts, not the standard conical or whatever it is with aftermarket wheels.


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## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic, after reading your last two posts I have a few concerns:
I curently run 17 X 7 VW OEM Siata wheels with 215 45 R17 tires on my Golf. I'll be getting the Pro-system installed within the next week. Do I need spacers for my wheels? Do you recommend the H & R which you have since the wheel size is the same?
Pardon the ignorance, but can you explain what hub-centric spacers are?
Also, you mention something about the wheel bolts, is this something of concern as well? I'm currently using what came with the car (for the stock 15" Avus).
Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (CTodd)*

Siata... nice wheels! Nah, you don't *need* spacers, but you might like spacers for the looks and handling. If you do want spacers, I would suggest the same 12/20 H&R hubcentric setup as myself since your wheels have the same dimensions as mine.
Hubcentric spacers are self-centering so you don't need supernatural powers to get the spacers perfectly centered in order to prevent vibration and shudder. VW uses the hubcentric method of mounting the wheels to the hub. If you ever take off and re-mount your wheels, you will notice that the wheel actually mounts on this cylindrical "lip" (therefore, hubcentric) instead of using studs. You will note that our wheels always have a "J" after the width to indicate hubcentric mount, e.g., 7J x 17".
Longer wheel bolts are necessary if you have spacers, because the distance from the bolt holes in your wheel to the bolt holes in your hub is greater. If you don't get longer wheel bolts, you will only be able to screw your bolts say half-way into the hub. Such a loose connection would be dangerous on the highway. When upgrading OEM wheels without spacers, you can reuse your stock wheel bolts without any problem. If you switched to aftermarket wheels, you would have to buy conical seat wheel bolts (OEM = ball seat).


[Modified by catalytic, 6:42 PM 7-4-2002]


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## Jeckyll (Feb 24, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (CTodd)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Catalytic, after reading your last two posts I have a few concerns:
I curently run 17 X 7 VW OEM Siata wheels with 215 45 R17 tires on my Golf. I'll be getting the Pro-system installed within the next week. Do I need spacers for my wheels? Do you recommend the H & R which you have since the wheel size is the same?[HR][/HR]​You don't have to use spacers. I don't and I run the prosystem with LongBeaches (17's) but what I noticed is that the back wheels look like the are not "out" quite far enough. For me that's purely an optical thing, and I'm not going to spend the $$ on spacers right now purely for cosmetic reasons (though anytime you widen the stance of the car it will of course also change handling slightly)
HTH


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic... ahhh the price of doing things the right the first time!
I'm going to follow the route of no spacers. Maybe later, but I want to take a look before I further increase my expense.


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## dubfan (May 26, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Would you recommend the 12/20 setup with the OEM Monte Carlos as well?


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (dubfan)*

Yes, i would. (I assume the Monte Carlos are also 7 x 17 as well)


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## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic/Jeckyll)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Nah, you don't *need* spacers, but you might like spacers for the looks and handling. If you do want spacers, I would suggest the same 12/20 H&R hubcentric setup as myself since your wheels have the same dimensions as mine.
[HR][/HR]​quote:[HR][/HR]You don't have to use spacers. [HR][/HR]​Ah HA! Thanks for the info guys. Much appreciated. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
quote:[HR][/HR]Siata... nice wheels![HR][/HR]​Why yes...yes they are!


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## daveg243 (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (CTodd)*

Installed my prosystem plus at a vw repair shop and something is rubbing/scraping on the front suspension.







I'm pretty mechanically challenged so does anyone know what may cause this constant low-pitch scraping ? I don't see anything rubbing down there. Could it be the rim rubbing against something (brake lines etc) it's more apparent at low speeds when I turn the wheel fully left. Kind of like a metallic scraping noise that builds in rythmn as I travel fasteralmost like worn brake pads rubbing on a disc. Maybe the dogbone mount broke? Sorry for being so clueless. It's very annoying and I can't go back to the repair shop till monday







Any help is appreciated!


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (daveg243)*

OK, this is not the first time I heard of problems with the Eibach kit. I do not know why they would be considering the conservative drop and its just a direct replacement for the stock set up. It's not like a coiliover system.
What wheels do you have? Offset? Tire profile?
How about that single piece that most ppl are cutting in hald?


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## daveg243 (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

I have the stock 2002 16 inch GTI wheels and used the supplied bumpstops without cutting them. At least thats what they told me they did


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## daveg243 (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (daveg243)*

Fixed the problem. It was something rubbing on the subframe when it was raised back during install . All's good in the world once more


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (daveg243)*

This rubbing relates to the sway?
Eh everyone Eibach Pro System Plus ORDERED!!!
Now the VWR bushings!!!


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## daveg243 (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Sorry didn't talk tot he installer much but he said it was the subframe contacting with a brake component I think. I work the Graveyard shift and talked to him in the morning so I wasn't my sharpest at the time. By the way the Prosystem plus is firm and comfortable and the sway bars really make a big difference in the twisties. The only thing I'd change is the over assisted power steering. It feels like a 70's Domestic car, toooo damn light. What's up with that VW? Heard BMW just fixed this problem on their 3 series tuned for soccor moms navigating parking lots







Any other way to beef up the steering feel? Firmer bushings etc?


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## RPMjchris (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (daveg243)*

Related post...
I had the VW/Eibach sport springs installed before delivery of my '01 WE Jetta. This combination had acceptable ride and handling with the factory "sport suspension" dampers, but I figured they would eventually wear out. Sure enough, I started feeling the quality degrade at about 16-17K miles. My WE is a daily driver, and I have a 35 mile roundtrip commute over average to good highway surfaces and poor to average city streets. I didn't want the NVH that polyeurathane bushings can give, so elected to NOT replace them.
This weekend, with 18,500 miles on my car, I uprated to Eibach Pro-Dampers and Neuspeed 25mm front and 28mm adj. rear swaybars (rear bar on the middle setting). What a difference the dampers made to the ride. No more harshness - the springs are now controlled as the car encounters rough road surfaces. This combination of springs, dampers, and swaybars also controls EVERY body movement better. I find steering inputs and on-center feel is much improved, especially on the highway. 
I'm looking forward to driving aggressively and testing the limits. I'll repost my impressions then.








P.S. I had squeaking springs when steering at slow speeds before my new struts were installed - the squeak is gone now. Also, no other new http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif noises after install.



[Modified by RPMjchris, 11:04 AM 7-7-2002]


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## Jeckyll (Feb 24, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (RPMjchris)*

Nice to know how much of a difference the prodampners make compared to stock. I switched to the prosystem all at once, but I am very happy with it.
After some more hard driving I'm starting to think I may invest in a rear sway and a front strut bar eventually, but other things come first (like buying groceries







)


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jeckyll)*

Do you think the S3 front strut bar in combo with Eibach Pro System Plus w/ VWR bushings makes a big diff... or is the strut, in this case, purely aesthetics.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

When I did my upper strut tie bar in conjunction with my strut bushings and rear sway, I figured "40% (of the improvement in responsiveness) is due to the strut bushings, 40% to the rear sway, and 20% to the upper tie bar." Some people say it is even less. 
I would say the lower tie bar is more effective, so get that one first. Might as well install it at the same time you're replacing the front control arm bushings since you're going to have to take off the same bolts anyways. 
In any event, I say the more bracing, the better. You can never have too much structural rigidity. If you had a hatchback, I would say the rear upper tie bar is required as well. My 2 cents.


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

HELP
I'm ready to buy the VWR bushings, BUT how do you add MkIV parts to the shopping cart at Rallyparts Ireland?
My Eibach Pro System Plus will be in shortly!


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

You can't. Their online purchasing engine only works with clothing. You have to call them up. Have fun talking with them in Ireland. It will take 20 minutes to order the parts and tell them your shipping address with the different accents, LOL









And you wonder why I decided to go with whatever VWMS/VWR bushings I could get from Autotech instead...
Actually, it appears that you already contacted Andy about it on their forum. Never mind. The part number for the strut bushings is 1JV 412 331.



[Modified by catalytic, 10:55 PM 7-8-2002]


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## funk-n-groovin (May 6, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Where can you buy spacers (prefer hubcentric)?


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (funk-n-groovin)*

http://www.parts4vws.com
http://www.ecstuning.com
For now, ECS tuning is the only place I know that carries the 10 and 12 mm H&R spacers. Don't get the 10's, as they don't make the correct length wheel bolts for VW factory wheel offsets. 
If you get 8's make sure they are the hubcentric version (because H&R still sells non-hubcentric 8's). 
5's are usually non-hubcentric, so don't get them. Not to mention, they are too thin to make a difference in looks.


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

LOL yes, I am in contact with Andy. I got so frustrated that I registered myself for the RPI forum and contacted him via forum.
Ugh!
LoL!!!
It will happen I know it will!
Eibach Pro System Plus due in July 15th!!! Yes!!!


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## funk-n-groovin (May 6, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

thanks for the info they have some good prices at parts4VWs


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (funk-n-groovin)*

Wait they sell VWR parts at part4VWs?


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

He's talking about the H&R spacers. Although, they do sell the VWMS/VWR strut bushings there, but it's more expensive than at Autotech.


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## funk-n-groovin (May 6, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I am still looking for strut bushings(aftermarket), I read the article on the 25th anniversary GTI and it spoke of new rear bushings that really were supposed to be nice, looking into a part #
One question is it strut tower bearings up front and strut bushings in the back or is it both on the front and back?
I am thinking about hte Eibach system but I wanted to replace the other components before I had the work done?
I found the OEM parts for the strut tower bearings 1j0412249 $8.25ea and the
> strut bushings 1j0412331c $13.60ea
do I need 4 bearings or just 2 for the front?
same with the bushings 4 or 2 for back 
Thanks, Forgive my ignorance








>


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## Rave'nGTi (May 16, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Jeckyll)*

anyone getting a popping/clunking from the rear with their pro-system installed? I know a few other people have had this and I want to avoid it at all costs.
anyone have this been able to fix it yet?


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (funk-n-groovin)*

Point is that your not looking for stock bushings/mounts... your looking for uprated bushings/mounts. I'm picky, that's why I'm going all out on VWR parts versus mixing and matching - not my cup of tea.
I'm getting:
strut mounts
rubbed bonded metal mounts
wishbone rubber fronts
wishbone rubber rears
rear axle bearings
Should make my ride into what a GLiA should if VW made one! Nice touch with the whole "GLiA", right? Slight touch of BMW acronyms.
If I could have things my way, I would drop the whole rear axle for the Bora 4-Motion IRS, but that's too pricey. If I do that, I might as well go 4Motion but then I won't have the option of a 6-sp VWR tranny and I will be restricted to what series I can race due to AWD.

Future mod:
APR stage III
APR gen II turbo back exhaust
APR chip
APR FMIC (speculated to come over from their other applications)
VWR 6-spd tranny conversion from 4-spd automatic
VWR LSD
OEM Seat Cupra R front Brembo big brake kit
OEM TT rear brake kit
Currently my daily driver but will be my toy car for the track once i get out of college.


[Modified by 2001Bora, 5:25 PM 7-10-2002]


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

Yeah, I have a slight clunking noise from the back over bumps, but it only started a few weeks after I installed my rear sway. I figure the sway either might be hitting the torsion beam or it is rattling against the lower shock mount. Doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I don't hear it unless I have the windows open and the radio off.


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Just ordered VWR bushings/mounts.
Progress is underway!!!
wishbone front/rear bushings, strut mounts, subframe mounts, rear axle bearings


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

How much did it cost you for each item? How much was the shipping?
I pay a significant amount extra to get these parts shipped to Canada from the US; I can only imagine it would be even more all the way from Ireland.


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

The handling package includes all that I'm getting and that's 210 USD.
And shipping to US is 28 USD.
Total 238 USD!!! Great deal!!!

You should see their 3 piece engine package. Great deal compared to the guys in the US; I'm so lucky to bump into the right company first rather than searching around.
Andy @ Rallyparts Ireland is AWESOME!!!
Note, I'm getting two extra parts compared to catalysts; rear axle bearing and subframe mount.
BTW, I'll also get my 6-spd VWR tranny w/ built in VWR LSD from Rallyparts Ireland. I love their instantaneous response.
They actually didn't have the MkIV parts up until I spoke to them and it took 2 days for them to posts updates and setup the whole internet pay structure for the parts. Andy even called me straight from Ireland.
These ppl are awesome. BTW BTW, Andy speaks English really well!!!
I'm satisfied about their response and service. Now I just wait ~7 days.
Suspension will be installed near the end of the month.


[Modified by 2001Bora, 8:00 AM 7-12-2002]


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

quote:[HR][/HR]And shipping to US is 28 USD[HR][/HR]​Ah, but get ready for the duty, taxes, and brokerage fees. I usually pay $10-15 S&H from the US, but the brokerage fees, duty, GST, and PST really add up (or maybe your customs department is different than ours).
Well, it looks like you have enjoyed your experience with Rally Ireland. Good to know. And a pat on the back for taking the trouble to contact Andy and get things sorted out when it seemed like a PITA at the beginning. Besides the shipping and import charges, that's what turned me off from ordering from them. But it just goes to show that a little persistence goes a long way.


[Modified by catalytic, 6:51 PM 7-12-2002]


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Recieved my VWR Handling Package, less top mounts aka struth bushings. Top mounts coming in a few days due to VWR delay.
No custom fees/duties. I assume its already paid.
Excellent deal for those who are going with any aftermarket suspension and want to do it right the first time around.
I have a price quote appointment the coming Friday with a reputable shop. Install due in early August.
Will update this thread!
BTW, the VWR rear axle bearings are real!!!


----------



## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Well they are finally in thanks to http://briansgarage.com in Needham, MA. I went for a joyride last night and all I can say is WOW!
What a difference. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Much stiffer, but not too stiff. The car holds onto turns much tighter, although catalytic's suggestion of needing a rear sway definitely ran through my mind. My girlfriend was following in her Volvo and she even noticed that the car's tail seemed to "wag" a bit due to the roll still present. I'm betting that this is due to the lack of a rear sway bar. 
All in all, much nicer that stock. It still soaks up the majority of the bumps quite nicely, but you certainly feel it more. I'm SO GLAD I didn't get coilovers. That would have been atrocious on Boston roads!
Question for those who have a rear sway: What kind do you have? Do you recommend Eibach's? Neuspeed? 
I am also installing a front strut brace soon and I'll post a review of that once I do.
_edit: typos_
Cheers,










[Modified by CTodd, 10:11 AM 7-20-2002]


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (CTodd)*

CTodd,
Who are you going with on the strut brace?
I wanted to go with Eibach ProControl bar, but they don't make one for the MkIV... that leaves the OEM S3 strut bar. Does a strut bar make a noticeable difference to justify the cost?


----------



## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Well...the strut bar I got was $20! I'm not sure who the manufacturer is, 
(silly.. I know) so its a relatively inexpensive mod for me to do. 
Like you I wish the Eibach rear sway was sold as a separate piece.


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (CTodd)*

I purchased the complete Eibach ProSys + b/c i knew i need the sways eventually and didnt want to make another trip to the shop and pay another labor fee. We all lose way too much money like that.


----------



## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

You're a smart man!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## daveg243 (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (CTodd)*

I have the prosystem plus (22f-25r sways installed)and really like it.It's firmer but not too harsh over NJ pothole ridden roads. I think that the rear sway bar could be a little larger...maybe 27-28mm but that may be because the stock 16's with the all season conti's are still on my GTI. When I go to Potenza S03s it may make a difference in turn in and possibly dial out some minor understeer which the car has right now. Then again I'm used to rear wheel drive cars and am comparing it to my other car (Honda S2000). I bet 17s would make a difference too. I'll update soon as I get the new rubbers on







BTW It's a great improvement over the cadillac suspension it used to have.


----------



## piusvii (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (CTodd)*

I ordered the NS rear sway after some research. The Eibach rear is supposed to go around the lower shock mounts and is therefore not as low as the NS or AutoTech and I'd prefer that but of course Eibach doesn't sell just the rear. Catalytic got the AutoTech 28mm rear tho its equiv to a 25mm NS because of its hollow design. I opted for the NS b/c it doesn't require drilling like the Autotech (tho there may be longevity/solidness advantage to drilling).


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (piusvii)*

The Eibach rear sway does not require drilling right?
Anyone in PA recommend WagenWerks?
EDIT
BTW, can someone repost the pics of all the VWR/Autotech bushings/mounts. I want to cross check what I got. Thanks.


[Modified by 2001Bora, 8:00 AM 7-23-2002]


----------



## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Anyone know where one can purchase Eibach Sways??
Anyone have them??


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (CTodd)*

I have the sways... problem... I don't have a digital camera. Best place you can purchase the Eibach sways is shox.com; you may find it hard to get them since you'll purchase them separately versus the whole package.


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review*

People help!!!
I just had a very frank conversation with a shop mechanic and they told me that all the VWR parts, I'm throwing into my suspension will make it unbearable for road usage.
My question to you people, how unbearable are your rides? How does it feel going over road blemishes?


----------



## CTodd (Aug 19, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have the sways... problem... I don't have a digital camera. Best place you can purchase the Eibach sways is shox.com; you may find it hard to get them since you'll purchase them separately versus the whole package.[HR][/HR]​Whaddaya mean no digital camera?!?!







Aren't you aware of the Vortex user agreement?? It states all users MUST have a digital camera to place lots of photos of their car and mods on this site. There is a special agreement with Nikon, you can get a discount for 85% off retail.








Yeah - Eibach sways - $355 from Tirerack.com I've still got to call shox.com.
Shine racing rear sway is $195. No ground clearance issues there, but I hear install is difficult. 
How's ground clearance with the Eibachs??
_edit: typos and wording_ 


[Modified by CTodd, 10:15 AM 7-24-2002]


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

quote:[HR][/HR]People help!!!
I just had a very frank conversation with a shop mechanic and they told me that all the VWR parts, I'm throwing into my suspension will make it unbearable for road usage.
My question to you people, how unbearable are your rides? How does it feel going over road blemishes?[HR][/HR]​So I take it you didn't read my review on the strut bushings and rear sway? I spelled it out for you guys. 
quote:[HR][/HR]Strut bushings? IMO, they are something you do if you are serious about handling, but are something you avoid if you are serious about comfort.[HR][/HR]​At the beginning, I didn't like them very much. But then they get softer and you get used to them more to the point where it is still a little harsher, but nothing unbearable with a relatively mild setup like the ProSystem. Also depends on your tires, too. 18" low profiles with high inflation pressures, coilovers, and strut bushings will kill you.








Control arm bushings are not as bad, so you don't even have to worry about them.


[Modified by catalytic, 12:02 AM 7-25-2002]


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I have 18x7.5" BBS RC's with 225/40 ZR18 Michelin Pilot Sport... will i run into any problems with the Eibach kit and VWR handling kit?
BTW, I think that mechanic was throwing me off or trying to scare me from going through with the VWR handling kit.
Surprisingly many of those components are in the GTi 337... virtually everything less the strut mount and the subframe mount.


[Modified by 2001Bora, 7:29 AM 7-25-2002]


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

*catalytic*
How much did it cost for your complete installation (LABOR COST) of all VWR/Autotech bushings and your Eibach with sway bars? Less the tie-bar and hubcentric spacers.


----------



## turborave (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

which autotech tool do you need? the one thats $10 and makes something alot easier.. i looked on thier website and didnt see a spring/shock specific tool.


----------



## Ty Webb (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (turborave)*

Well called Shox.com today to buy the ProSystem for $499... Eibach is backordered till October!!! Damn, I am so sad.
Well I made a bunch of calls and the only place that has them in stock is TireRack.com for $685 and they DO NOT price match. 
Ahh... such sadness


----------



## ecarlson (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Ty Webb)*

I'm wondering the back order is related to the Vortex discount







not long ago when everyone was talking about backorders from show.com... I called them and they were in stock for $579. I didn't know about the vortex discount at the time.
Try calling them back and don't mention the discount and see what they say.....


----------



## turborave (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Ty Webb)*

wierd, i ordered mine from shox.com and they are on thier way.. been tracking them via UPS.com


----------



## Sick6 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Question? I recently installed just Eibach lowering springs on a 01 GTI VR6. I can deal with the bounce for now, but what's my next step? The car is srtickly for the street and I want something not to complicated which will make the ride stiffer. Thanks


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

I've about had it... I got the VWR wishbone front and rear bushings, VWR subframe bushings, VWR strut top bushings, VWR rear axle bearing, and Eibach Pro System Plus...
No one wants to press the VWR parts into my suspension... F'ing Hell!!!
I'm tired, I work nights, I feel like poop... just venting... now I gotta replace my rear brakes with the OEM 256mm setup b/c VW set my Jetta to brake more in the rear... F'ing crazy!!!
Someone help me... I need a place in SE Pennsylvania that will do brakes and hardcore suspension installations. I went to two places... one said that I'm making the wrong decision and the other said that they are afraid.
HELP! Roughly half a year of R&D and it comes down to this... God help me!


[Modified by 2001Bora, 9:29 AM 7-31-2002]


----------



## bat711 (Oct 1, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Ty Webb)*

How did you get the Pro System for $499?! I just emailed Shox.com for a quote and they said $569...
Brian


----------



## eliyale (Apr 20, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (bat711)*

Did you ask for the "Vortex discount?"


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have 18x7.5" BBS RC's with 225/40 ZR18 Michelin Pilot Sport... will i run into any problems with the Eibach kit and VWR handling kit?
BTW, I think that mechanic was throwing me off or trying to scare me from going through with the VWR handling kit.
[HR][/HR]​*2001Bora*,
You will be fine, but the ride will not be as comfortable, obviously. You have to sacrifice ride for handling. That's the way it is. The ProSystem is the best compromise for most people. Adding 18" low profiles and strut bushings is "kicking it up a notch" in both handling and harshness, so you have to be ready for it. 
As for these shops and mechanics "scaring you", I think most mechanics/installers deal with "average drivers" who are not "true enthusiasts" and hence come back and complain when they find that their sport shocks and springs reduce ride quality. Duh! I have a feeling they had to deal with idiots coming back and bitching and moaning to them before...
Installation cost me around $125 for the ProSystem, $120 for rear sway + strut bushings, $90 for the front CA bushings, and $90 for the rear CA bushings. All prices US$. I did them separately, so that made it quite a bit more expensive than if you were to do everything together. 
As for an installer, do you live anywhere close to Allentown? AWE Tuning is a well-known tuner in Willow Grove, PA. And PES Tuning is a well known tuner in Ivyland, PA. Whether they do bushings or not I don't know.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Sick6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Question? I recently installed just Eibach lowering springs on a 01 GTI VR6. I can deal with the bounce for now, but what's my next step? The car is srtickly for the street and I want something not to complicated which will make the ride stiffer. Thanks[HR][/HR]​Get shocks -- Koni Sport, preferably. Bilstein Sport is another option, but is a bit less comfortable.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (turborave)*

quote:[HR][/HR]which autotech tool do you need? the one thats $10 and makes something alot easier.. i looked on thier website and didnt see a spring/shock specific tool.[HR][/HR]​This is the one you're talking about:
10.012.411 VW A4 Front Strut Spreader Bit $10
There is also another tool for the strut mount, but I am not sure it this is it:
10.012.87300 Strut Bearing Collar Tool $20


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

This is the quote I just got.
Eibach Pro System (springs, shocks, VWR strut mounts): $450
Plus (f/r sways): $150
VWR bushings (7 hrs @ 75/hr): $725
This is per job basis.
I was expecting everything to come down to $400-500 labor.
Someone help me.


----------



## gracehill (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Catalytic,
Any input on the KW sport suspension for the Golf IV? I'm considering the sport system, a matched set of springs and struts. Thank ya.


----------



## Ken1.8T (Feb 16, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (ecarlson)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I'm wondering the back order is related to the Vortex discount







not long ago when everyone was talking about backorders from show.com... I called them and they were in stock for $579. I didn't know about the vortex discount at the time.
Try calling them back and don't mention the discount and see what they say.....[HR][/HR]​I think that there is a national Eibach back order. I ordered the VW/Eibach springs from Suncoast Motorsports on July 1st and still have not received them. I cancelled the order, called Shox.com and just decided to order the Pro-System. More then what I wanted to spend, but it's a great value for $499 plus shipping. I called and they had them in stock for the 1.8t Jetta, actually "one left" as the guy put it. From now on, I'm going to call Eibach springs, "Ei-bachorder" springs...


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

quote:[HR][/HR]This is the quote I just got.
Eibach Pro System (springs, shocks, VWR strut mounts): $450
Plus (f/r sways): $150
VWR bushings (7 hrs @ 75/hr): $725
This is per job basis.
I was expecting everything to come down to $400-500 labor.
Someone help me.[HR][/HR]​Honestly, looks like you are paying too much. $500 for everything is the most I would pay (I didn't get the rear axle bearings or the subframe mounts, but I only paid $425 even with separate installs for each part). 
You know, you could upgrade to a 3.65 R&P and add an LSD to your tranny (we're talking the labour cost here) for the 7 hours $725 price you were quoted just for the control and trailing arm bushings!


[Modified by catalytic, 11:21 PM 8-3-2002]


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (gracehill)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Catalytic,
Any input on the KW sport suspension for the Golf IV? I'm considering the sport system, a matched set of springs and struts. Thank ya.[HR][/HR]​Not sure, gracehill. Haven't heard too much about it. Should be decent if they are the same quality as KW coilovers.


----------



## mbeale (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I was just going to mention that although the Eibach dampers are far better valved than the OE dampers, they are pretty much off the self Sachs dampers otherwise. Other than the custom valving there really isn't much difference between them and the OE shocks. From what I have heard, Eibach has done a really good job with this system and I"m not trying to take anything away from Eibach, but to imply that they are so much more advanced than the OE dampers is not really correct. Its not so much a matter of better technology as just better execution.


----------



## ecarlson (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Eibach Pro System (springs, shocks, VWR strut mounts): $450
Plus (f/r sways): $150
VWR bushings (7 hrs @ 75/hr): $725
[HR][/HR]​Satisfaction when you get it all installed and drive it for the first time....Priceless










[Modified by ecarlson, 6:12 PM 8-4-2002]


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Install Eibach ProSystem today - my review (ecarlson)*

I understand quality but I do understand overpriced. The labor cost a tad more than the parts, which really blows my mind. I was expecting around 500, which was my high side.


----------



## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (mbeale)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I was just going to mention that although the Eibach dampers are far better valved than the OE dampers, they are pretty much off the self Sachs dampers otherwise. Other than the custom valving there really isn't much difference between them and the OE shocks.[HR][/HR]​What is your source for this information? While Sachs is the OEM supplier to VW for these shocks, Eibach has reported the Pro Dampers are based upon Sachs' much upgraded aftermarket shocks and have little in common with the low cost OEM shocks. Just because Sachs supplies both shocks does not mean they are, or start out, the same. Do you really think the OEM GM or Ford Monroe shocks are. or start out, the same as the Monroe shocks used on ALMS or CART cars?
Please tell us why you believe the Pro Dampers are not "so much more advanced than the OE dampers"?
BTW, your info is directly opposite published interviews with both Eibach and Sachs personnel. Can't wait to hear your source.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (mbeale)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I was just going to mention that although the Eibach dampers are far better valved than the OE dampers, they are pretty much off the self Sachs dampers otherwise. Other than the custom valving there really isn't much difference between them and the OE shocks. From what I have heard, Eibach has done a really good job with this system and I"m not trying to take anything away from Eibach, but to imply that they are so much more advanced than the OE dampers is not really correct. Its not so much a matter of better technology as just better execution.[HR][/HR]​mbeale,
I didn't mean to imply a technological breakthrough on the same level as hydrogen powered cars -- after all, it is still a basic gas-pressurized dual chamber cylinder of oil with a piston and a valve -- but they _do_ use better technology like progressive valving. 
Eibach doesn't use the same OE shock that the VW factory uses and just change the valving, you know. They use Sachs' higher-end sport shocks, not the "as cheap as possible without breaking any safety standards" shocks that are typical of OE crap. It is far better designed to start with and uses superior components like a progressive valve instead of the cheapo valve in the OE dampers.
But you are right about the importance of execution. It doesn't matter if you have the most advanced dampers in the world unless you match them to the springs and the vehicle's chassis properly. This is absolutely critical to optimize the handling and ride comfort tradeoff of the car. You could say that Eibach has made the most of Sachs damper technology by proper execution. (however, to say the ProDampers are no more advanced than OE shocks is laughable)
See this post (and several posts down) for some info on the Sachs dampers.
EDIT: Those crazy webmasters at Sachs changed the website on me, so go here for info on Sachs Advantage dampers (the ones Eibach likely uses as a basis for their ProDampers).


[Modified by catalytic, 2:26 AM 8-5-2002]


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

UPDATE:
Project Jetta 1.8T GLiA... ride's in the shop and I it should be around $600-$700.
Want to play, gotta pay!
Keep you guys updated.
- Alex


----------



## ferndog32 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Ty Webb)*

Hmm, I ordered my Pro-System on Saturday (8/3/02) and it shipped out today. It should arrive on Wednesday. I would call back and see what the deal is with the backorder. I ordered the kit for a Golf IV 4 cylinder (1.8T). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

UPDATE
VWR rear axle bearing bushing: best shop around could not remove stock untis; they will take the last resort... heat up, saw the old units, and press them out... installing the new units is not an issue.


----------



## je. (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Incidentally, the official VW Bentley manual (cd p. 42-15) says this about the rear bushings:quote:[HR][/HR]Bushings -2- cannot be pressed our or in with current shop tools. 
If bushing -2- is damaged, the rear axle beam must be replaced. [HR][/HR]​


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (je.)*

WTF, but BigE did it with his 25th GTi conversion.
Yeah, they can't be pressed out, the rubber must be melted and sawed to release the pressure and then pushed out.
The new rear axle bearing bushing can be pressed in though.
This pic should clarify everything. Plus I don't think VWR would sell something that can't be installed.








The name rear axle bearing is misleading. The correct name should be rear trailing arm pivot bushing.


[Modified by 2001Bora, 4:48 PM 8-6-2002]


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

It's DONE... everything... and price is not an issue if you want to swap all suspension mounts/bushings to VWR's.
The rear axle pivot bushings ARE feasible!!! It was easier to take the old ones out than putting the VWR's in.
I am currently waiting for my allignment, I should have my car back tonight or tomorrow morning.
17 hrs of labor, I have an automatic (for now, will be 6-spd VWR conversion in 2 years); reason why my engine/tranny had to be lifted.
The engine/tranny had to be lifted, subframe dropped, wishbones removed, rear axle/trailing arm completely removed from car meaning brake lines disconnected and all that good stuff.
Bulk of the cost was in the VWR units... the Eibach Pro System Plus should run most people around 400... however the VWR units triple the labor.
It's all about how serious you want to take it and how far you are willing to go! Write up coming soon after a long week of testing and bragging rights!!! Hahaha!!!
This is # 2 on my-impossible-but-I-did-it list!!!
First one was the OEM BBS RC's from the 25th GTi way back in December 2001... one of the first to get the set in the US and to sell them. Second, got all VWR suspension bushings/mounts installed - rear axle pivot bushings!
Next impossible... 256mm GTi337 rear brake conversion w/ 323mm Seat Leon Cupra R Brembo conversion!!! Stay tune!!!
Lets say its been a very hard 3 days waiting on my car especially when this is my first major mod.


[Modified by 2001Bora, 4:40 PM 8-7-2002]


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Just got my car and gave it a high speed highway test and a backroad test.
My lord, this should of been what the factory sport suspension!
AND it's comfortable - firm!!! Dive and lift are reduced to a minimum!!! The rear won't break lose.
My father (99 528i & 02 330i) said that this is what a sport suspension supposed to be!!!
I will compose a write up this weekend!!!


[Modified by 2001Bora, 11:07 AM 8-8-2002]


----------



## jetta2vr6 (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Who sells this kit? It sounds like the shot for what I'm planning on doing with my Jetta.


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (jetta2vr6)*

http://www.rallypartsireland.com
Click on the top right corner for the Golf IV parts they just put up on the site - thanks to my persistence and consistent e-mails. LOL.
They bundled everything together in a no hassle shipped prepaid custom price! Straight from Germany/Ireland. This is as close you get to VWR.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

Hats off to you, Alex! Pat on the back! You should be proud of your accomplishment. I wish you didn't have to spend so much on the install, but endless hours of driving pleasure is priceless. Mad props because you did what I couldn't be bothered to do: upgrading the rear trailing arm bushings and the subframe mount bushings.
... ENJOY!


----------



## Eric O (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I am another satisfied Eibach Prosystem customer - install took place last night - my 35 mile commute (combo of twisty mountain roads, city streets, and freeway) this morning was most satisfying. Brake dive and acceleration lift are tamed to acceptable levels. Float out of dips in the road is nearly non-existent. The car tracks the road nicely - and comfortably. For some road perturbations, it is noticeably stiffer - but undulations in a concrete freeway are damped to a civilized level. I think this suspension will do quite nicely on my daily driver.
I feel like I have a new car - I will be interested to see what my opinion is in a month or so.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Eric O)*

Thanks for reporting back. It makes me feel good that you are satisfied with your ProSystem. Amazing how you can make the car handle so much better without detracting too much from the ride comfort just by using quality shocks, the correct spring rates, and the correct shock valving to go with it.


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## Ken1.8T (Feb 16, 2001)

*Eibach ProSystem - Five star review...*

I'll chime in here as well. It's been about two weeks since my ProSystem install and all I can say is that I've fallen in love with my car again! Honestly, it feels and looks like a different car now. Upon first entering the car I noticed the door handle to be lower and I can now easily clean and wax the roof. The car sits with a more aggressive stance that is like a late 3-series Bimmer. Again, like many others have said, this is how the "sport suspension" should be from the factory. VWOA, are you listening? Do you care? Yes, there are Americans that take good handling seriously. Anyways, I feel more confident driving the car at higer speeds, lane changes are easily completed, requiring less steering input. Also, the car does not feel like it's "floating" during a highway sprint. What I enjoy the most is launching the car from a standstill: it actually "feels" quicker now. Less upward motion in the front as well as less squat in the rear with the suspension during accelleration. Road feel and driver feedback are tuned as well. The suspension is firmer and I did notice the local rough roads a bit more but it is by no means uncomfortable. It's a great firm feel now. Technical difficulties: steering wheel went off center and I was advised by other on the Vortex that I need to get an alignment, so I'll wait afew weeks still the spring "set" and then I'll get it done. Overall, the best mod thus far, I highly recommend it to the daily driven enthusiast. Get yours from http://www.shox.com
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bergenvr6 (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (turbo1point8)*

has anyone with the pro system had any problems with the front rattling over bumps? i've recently been having this problem and my installer checked everything, but the noise is still there.

anyone else have this problem?


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (bergenvr6)*

I have the Pro System Plus... there is a different sound compared to the stock sound when going over bumps.
I think its sourced to the heatshield for the front brakes; it's expected with any lowered suspension. Catalytic also noted that bump noises are changed afterwards. To me its like a really muffled "clunk" and then its gone.


----------



## bergenvr6 (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (2001Bora)*

i'm guessing that's the noise i'm hearing ... but when I kick the tires or hit them with a rubber mallet, i get a rattling noise on both sides in the front.
does it happen with yours?


----------



## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (bergenvr6)*

Definitely something is way too loose and i'm assuming its around your wishbone area
Is it both sides or just one?
Shocks moving around? I remember hearing the H&R cupkits require new pinch bolts, might this be the same with the Eibach Pro Sys?


----------



## bergenvr6 (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (2001Bora)*

Yea it's both sides ... I'm going to have my installer take a good look this weekend, hopefully 
anyone else have this problem?


----------



## Eric O (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (bergenvr6)*

Nope - tight as a drum.


----------



## Point8T (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Great review. I am getting my Pro-System next week.!


----------



## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Point8T)*

From who? Shox.com is back-ordered till Oct 7 the last time I called.
I can't stand this waiting!
quote:[HR][/HR]Great review. I am getting my Pro-System next week.![HR][/HR]​


----------



## David Cretney (Apr 27, 1999)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (bergenvr6)*

Yes, and I fixed it myself with the help from this thread. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?&id=490061&postid=4276413#4276413
I jacked up the car, put it on wood blocks, and wrapped an old bicycle inner tube around the lower coils. No more from strut rattling. (btw, I took it back to the installer and they couldn't source or even reproduce the rattle.)


----------



## Point8T (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (keycom)*

Damn, i just spoke with them and they didnt say anything about the kit being out of stock... oh wel, 15th is as good a date as anything. I guess i ahve to show up at the Dub'B'Q with my menacing SUV stance.


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Point8T)*

Quite late... but I found out how to use my college's hosting benefits.








BTW, I'm getting a clunk on the front passenger side... what could lead to this sound?


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (bergenvr6)*

I have a months worth of correspondence, back and forth, with eibach when I installed mine a year ago about the same problem. 
"They gave no solution, stating they never had a problem and it was probably installer error." 
I ended using vinyl tubing to cover the lower coil, problem solved.
What I noticed is that the coils are not ground straight like the OEM and not seat fully on the lower spring perch. May be that Eibach spec limits are to broad and production variation affect some fitments.


----------



## jmbillings (Nov 20, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

How are you guys getting quotes of around $500? No one in the UK seems to sell the ProSystem, but I can get the Pro-Dampers and springs seperately, but the tax-inclusive cost seems to be about 620UKP which is probably about $850-$900?!








Anyone ship cheap to the UK? I hate "Great" Britain...


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## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (jmbillings)*

Go to http://www.shox.com and request a quote. On the comments section, put in "VWVortex.com member discount". They then email you with a list of parts and prices that you were interested in. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cburkart (Jan 10, 2000)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (9VW23yrs)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I ended using vinyl tubing to cover the lower coil, problem solved.[HR][/HR]​Say, could you elaborate a little more on what kind of vinyl tubing this was? How thick was it?
Thanks!


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## BlackJelli (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (maclane)*

Good news. I just spoke to Tom of Shox.com and he said that he had three sets of Pro-Systems coming in this week. I ordered mine from them early last month and the date they gave me Oct 9. He explained that there was a shipping strike that slowed down orders, but that these parts were arriving via air-freight. 
Hopefully, one of the sets is yours.


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## maclane (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (BlackJelli)*

Yeah, I emailed him and one of those babies is indeed for me!
Woo-Hoo


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## whenry6 (Oct 2, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (maclane)*

I would like to thank you all for all the info in this thread, especially Catalytic who started it all with his great review. I just ordered the Eibach Pro System and a Neuspeed rear sway from shox.com, and they indeed gave me a nice discount when I mentioned the Vortex! Just wanted to say you guys rock!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks,
BH
'03 Jetta GLI


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## H2O WOLF (Mar 30, 2000)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (2001Bora)*

quote:[HR][/HR]







[HR][/HR]​Beautiful, I guess those are 337 wheels?


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## maclane (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (crez)*

I was looking for a while with no luck. There has been a national shortage for months with most retailers waiting for Eibach to ship from Germany. There was supposed to be a delivery mid-October but that is what has been pushed back until November. Tom at Shox, however, yelled at Eibach for those of us who had already been waiting and got them to ship a handful by airfreight. As you missed getting one of those 3 sets, I fear you'll have to wait until late November.








It sucks, I know b/c I've been waiting for a long time, but from everything I read on here it's worth the wait...


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## BlackJelli (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (maclane)*

Like a lot of people, I'm starting to lose faith in the mighty shox.com. I spoke with Tom today (again) about the shipment he said was coming in last week. Turns out the three sets were Passat dampers instead of Pro-Systems.







Now he said that I'll be seeing them the last week of October. Whatever...


----------



## maclane (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (BlackJelli)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Like a lot of people, I'm starting to lose faith in the mighty shox.com. I spoke with Tom today (again) about the shipment he said was coming in last week. Turns out the three sets were Passat dampers instead of Pro-Systems.







Now he said that I'll be seeing them the last week of October. Whatever...[HR][/HR]​When I first spoke with shox.com I thought they sounded competent and knowledgable. When I called them again today (after reading your post) I envisioned a bunch of monkeys flinging poop around an office... 
I got transferred back and forth between Tom and Darryl, neither of whom seemed to GENUINELY know what's happening with our Prosystems. The final word seemed to be that they are expecting the three airfreighted units at the end of this week. Is that true? Who the hell knows but there's an office out there somewhere with poop all over the walls.
I just want my suspension!!!


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (BlackJelli)*

I too, have given up on shox.com completely. Although I do not blame them entirely, as supply seems to be a problem for everyone with their products lately. We should probably blame "catalytic", remember him?








Finally found myself a shop that works with Eibachs, so they will install mine for me. THEY said the Pro System + should be here in two weeks. Haven't we all heard that one?








Any longer than that and I may opt for Shine's SRS!


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## Hammer_Man (Oct 20, 2001)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (keycom)*

Have you guys tried the Tire Rack? I dont know if they're having the same problems as Shox.com but I know that they carry the prokits.
http://www.tirerack.com


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## maclane (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (keycom)*

Yo, BlackJelli... Have you heard anything more from Shox? 
I'm driving up the Left Coast in 3 weeks and I'll be really bummed if I don't have my suspension by then. Route 1 is windy as a colon for hours and I want to have some fun. Damn Eibach and their brilliant product/poor supply.


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## BlackJelli (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (maclane)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Yo, BlackJelli... Have you heard anything more from Shox? [HR][/HR]​I haven't heard anything yet, nor do I expect to for a while. I have nothing personally against Shox, but Eibach has gotten on my nerves. I got the new European Car yesterday in the mail and Eibach had the balls to put a full two page advertisement for their Pro-System in the front of the mag! What do you think of that?
quote:[HR][/HR]I'm driving up the Left Coast in 3 weeks and I'll be really bummed if I don't have my suspension by then.[HR][/HR]​I too have a road trip planned for Thanksgiving and will be very annoyed if I don't have these components installed. 
BTW - Tom did not give me the same date he gave you. He said my order would be arriving at the end of the month.


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (BlackJelli)*

Don't even bother any distributors PPL... Since your in the West Coast... and since the SEMA show is in LV in Nov... why don't you confront Eibach at their stands. Oh, bring back tons of pics to post too!!! Heard Eibach and BBS are making some lovely debuts!!!


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## maclane (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (BlackJelli)*

I saw a set advertised in the classifieds for $300 (







) and thought about canceling my order, but the seller never emailed me back so maybe they're gone. 
I used this as an excuse to harrass Darryl at Shox.Com again. I don't know whether Tom is any better informed, but Darryl insisted the airfreighted sets are supposed to come in any day between now and 1.5 weeks. Now don't you think if something's being airfreighted they should know the exact arrival date? I get the sense they're blowing smoke up my ass.
My roadtrip is Nov 11th. I'll be shocked (pleasantly so) if I have the Prosystem installed by then. Screw two front teeth, all I want for Christmas is my friggin suspension.


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## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (maclane)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I'm not disgruntled b/c I've decided to wait on my new kit from Shox anyway, but I don't think it's cool that you're still advertising them. WTF [HR][/HR]​For the exact reason that you have put here. Did you let me know that you are no longer interested in buying these from me? Things happen and people back out. I have sold many parts on here and learned that just because you have someone that says, yes I will buy them, does not mean that it will happen. Case in point, I received an email this morning from #1 on the list, saying that he is going to wait a while before he purchases suspension. So it is now to #2 on the list and who knows if they will buy them. Why should I limit myself. You learn quickly that you must advertise to get anything done on here. 
Sorry you feel the way you do, but I am still going to say they are for sale until $ is in my hand. I will let you know if it gets to you on the list unless you send me an email telling me to drop you from it.
Thanks for the positive vibe though.
Chris


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## maclane (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (keegan)*

I apologize. Was having a bad day. Still, I would imagine your list was well over a dozen before you listed on here. I have no doubt you will sell this kit very quickly. You said in your original post you expected it to sell right away. This thread itself will prove just how sought-after this kit is. 
If it does get to me, we'll see. I grow more disappointed with Shox.com each passing day so I would not have a big problem canceling my order. 
Regardless, enjoy whatever setup you replace the Prosystem with.


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## maclane (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (BlackJelli)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
I haven't heard anything yet, nor do I expect to for a while. I have nothing personally against Shox, but Eibach has gotten on my nerves. I got the new European Car yesterday in the mail and Eibach had the balls to put a full two page advertisement for their Pro-System in the front of the mag! What do you think of that?[HR][/HR]​Good news... check this out...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=555837


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## Gatorfreak (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (maclane)*

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents to this thread. Just got the Pro-System installed today and have had time to drive over bumpy roads, speed bumps, and circle drives. It's quite simply amazing. There doesn't seem to be any loss in comfort over the bumpy stuff, yet there is very little lean or squat when turning or accelerating. Due to the reduced squat (I assume), traction from stand-still start is greatly improved. It's like a whole new car. I'd put this up there with a chip as far as bang for the buck.


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (Gatorfreak)*

FINALLY








Got my Jetta in February and finally the suspension is on its way! I have been trying for eight months to get the Eibach Pro System +.
Shox.com called Tuesday and said there are still no System +'s available (the package deal), BUT he did have the springs, dampers and a roll bar kit. So for just a little more $, I ordered that today.
Install should be done within two weeks. I got some vacation time built up, maybe a trip to Taos or Vegas is in order!








Or maybe a trip up to visit Catalytic!


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## SimianSpeedster (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (keycom)*

So,
I ordered my ProSystem from shox.com yesterday afternoon at around 3PM and it showed up today at 1PM! After all the talk about how hard this kit is to find, I am shocked. I'll have these bad boys installed next week and report back.







Thanks to Daryl and the shox.com crew!








-Bradley


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (keycom)*

keycom, 
If you actually drive all the way up to Toronto from Nebraska, drinks are on me all night.


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## AJMaestro (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (keycom)*

Well, I found this link the other day after looking for shocks for my Accord (I need a set of Koni Yellows).
My Fiancee picked up her Jetta (ours, I guess







) back in May and she lets me drive it all the time cause she likes how excite I get (the Jetta hadles and corners so much nicer than the Accord despite not having the top-end of a V6 VTEC). SHe got the sport package for the rims and the 'better handling,' (as per my bro's suggestion), but now she wants it dropped as the car looks like it could go off-roading. She also wants more performance ("the body kit and e-codes come AFTER the suspension/chip/exhaust" as she told me).
I got the Pro-Kit on the Accord and that's what ineterested me, but this review (especially Catalytic's review) sold me on the dampers. I really wish that they made the dampers for my Accord







.
Now, why is it that her 'little' Jetta has all of these performance and suspension mods but while my Accord does not have that as much as tons of light trinkets and stickers and fake plastic add-ons (have you seen the fake intercooler and 'BOV speaker'?)
Thanks for the wonderful resource! I can't wait to order!


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## 718Dub (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (AJMaestro)*

I don't know if this has been said before but will the eibach prosystem plus fit a 2001 1.8t gti? All the sites selling them show golf/jetta/passat and vr6 engine? I couldn't find anything in the search. thanks guys.


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (718Dub)*

starting 2001 all dub, to my knowledge, have spacers. just make sure u remove the stock metal spacers for the front suspension when doing the installation.


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## LuisV (Jun 17, 2003)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (Imola Yellow GTi)*

My Eibach ProSystem should be here on Tuesday... I'm gonna drop them off to my mechanic so he can put them together for me, so they will be ready for my weekend install. I'm now looking to get the necessary replacement parts so it can be a complete swap. I want to drop off all the necessary hardware so when I take a dampner out I can just replace it with a new one. Here's a list I comprised so far... am I missing something... I keep hearing about removing the 10mm spacer... which part is it?
Front:
N90353603 Hex Lock Nut
1J0412319C Stop (?)
N10106402 Nut 
N10207803 Bolt
357412341A Spring Seat
1J0412311A Spacer (Is this the 10mm spacer?) 
1J0412249 Strut Mount Bearing
1J0412331C Strut Mount Front Upper
1H0412365A Strut Mount Bushing 
Rear:
N10403701 Bolt
1J0513353D Shock Mounting Plate
N90517302 Hex Screw
If I'm leaving anything out please let me know...


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## PocketRocket11 (Nov 9, 2003)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (catalytic)*

I know this is an ancient thread but it seems to be the best place for questions. I am buying a slightly used prosystem from a Jetta 1.8T and putting it in my GTI 1.8T. I am buying the an autotech 28mm rear sway from the same person as well. Will these two upgrades complement each other well? Are there any other suspension parts that I should consider to complete the setup? It seems that just the rear sway should neutralize the handling enough maybe im wrong. I saw this thread AFTER i decided to go with this setup. I can say it has only made me more excited about getting it installed!


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## PocketRocket11 (Nov 9, 2003)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (PocketRocket11)*

bump


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## BlackJelli (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (PocketRocket11)*

Yeah, the anti-sway should complement the Pro-System well. I have been considering getting a rear anti-sway, but it has not been a big priority since my P-S has been so awesome. I've had it installed over a year and it is the BEST thing I could have done to my car.


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## Maverik869 (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (BlackJelli)*

i didnt read throuhg the whole post.... but can someone please explain this fact to me... why hardly every do u see mk3 w. a eibach suspension and u always see a mk4 w. eibach kit??? also i have seen alot of people complain about the clunking noises in mk4 eibach pro-system have any of u seen this occur or not yet.... i have seen many posts previously about that issue...


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## Maverik869 (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (Maverik869)*

also i thik shox.com is a great company also.. when i requested pricing on many different systems they were very quick to respond ... and their prices are excelent!


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (BlackJelli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlackJelli* »_Yeah, the anti-sway should complement the Pro-System well. I have been considering getting a rear anti-sway, but it has not been a big priority since my P-S has been so awesome. I've had it installed over a year and it is the BEST thing I could have done to my car. 

I have the Pro-System and honestly, the NS 28mm sway gave more handling benefit than the springs/shocks. Together, they are great. The sway is a no brainer for sure. Night and day difference.


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## Jeckyll (Feb 24, 2002)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
I have the Pro-System and honestly, the NS 28mm sway gave more handling benefit than the springs/shocks. Together, they are great. The sway is a no brainer for sure. Night and day difference.

I also run the Pro system with a NS 28 mm adjustable sway, but I don't agree with your statement that the sway made a bigger difference. I love the way the pro system changed the Jetta and I am really happy that I added the sway, but I'd say the pro system made the bigger change for me.








In the end though, I guess it really doesnt matter, since the pro system with a good rear bar is a great setup (it doesn't really have to be the NS IMO any decent rear bar will be a great match).








I've never had anyone complain about the ride being too harsh and I run with some guys with coils and have never found that they can out corner me either. I'd agree though that for AutoX stiffer would be better, but for overall balance I'm very happy. As for noise, I need to replace the front strut tower bushings (like so many other mk4 drivers), which is where my noise is coming from. Not the prosystems fault.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (mj6234)*

The sway IMO changes the balance of the car from nose heavy understeering pig to "hmm, this actually feels a bit like a RWD car". The roll may also be reduced as well. But the spring rate and especially the damping still suck. IMO you have to lay the foundation for a well-sorted out chassis by fixing the damping and the spring rate first. Only then should you proceed to changing the relative roll rates (and therefore handling balance) of the car. Just my 2 cents.


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: Eibach ProSystem - Five star review... (catalytic)*

b/c of the change i almost got myself into a hillside ditch... btw i used to have a '01 jetta with eibach pro system plus and all my stock bushings yanked for VW racing bushings... i miss the ride b/c it was tight and not forgiving. it made me a better driver.
now i got a GTi. i think with the appropiate combination of spring rate and shocks (KW V1), i can duplicate the handling abilities of my prior setup w/o the front and rear sways.


_Modified by Imola Yellow GTi at 2:41 PM 12-17-2003_


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *catalytic* »_
Get shocks -- Koni Sport, preferably. Bilstein Sport is another option, but is a bit less comfortable.

So, Catalytic... what do you think is better to mate with Prokits? Their own Prokit shocks or Koni Sport?


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (alexb75)*

ProDamper shocks are the best match, obviously. They are designed to work with each other and are sold as a matched set in the ProSystem.
The only reason I would recommend Konis is if you find the low piston velocity damping to be too soft on the ProDampers. If so, the Konis' rebound valving could be made to match the ProKits decently if you are willing and able to test and tune the rebound damping several times (PITA). 
But for most people, the matched ProSystem is the way to go.


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## djchupacabra (Jan 21, 2004)

I recently installed a pro-line spring kit with KYB GR-2 struts, and I am very happy with the combo. It only rides a little bit harder during normal cruising, but stays amazingly stable in the corners. The springs and struts really seem to compliment each other! All for around $350. Note to all that attempt this install. . . make or buy the special tools, especially for front strut disassembly!


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## Gus Polinski (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Ok, I was leaning towards the Shine setup, but after reading this thread, I'm sold. Just bought it today from Shox.com with the Vortex discount, knocked it down to $509. They have it in stock and it'll ship today http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







I was 50/50 on the NS rear sway, but chose not to. I'll wait till I drive the car w. the new setup and go from there.
EDIT: 
FWIW, on my MKIII GTI VR6, I ran Pro-kit & Bilstein Sport. The ride was a little harsh for me.


_Modified by Hawkmoon at 4:49 PM 1-27-2004_


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## stuart_03_GLI (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Hawkmoon)*

I'm selling my prosystem for 300. It clunks on my car too, so if it behaves the same on your car you'll need to do the rubber wrapping on the springs fix.
[email protected]
I'm in baltimore, local sale preferred. If shipped, buyer pays shipping.
Thanks,
Stuart


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## jlvtx1800 (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Hawkmoon)*



Hawkmoon said:


> Ok, I was leaning towards the Shine setup, but after reading this thread, I'm sold. Just bought it today from Shox.com with the Vortex discount, knocked it down to $509. They have it in stock and it'll ship today http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Gus Polinski (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (jlvtx1800)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jlvtx1800* »_
What do you need to do to get the Vortex discount? Thanks in advance
Thanks,
John

All I did, before getting ready to pay, was say "Oh, do you guys still have the VWVortex discount?". He said yep... and lowered the price.


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## nanobot6 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Rave'nGTi)*

I installed the EIBACH PRO SYSYTEM + last January. I love the ride. It takes bumps and everyday driving well, looks good and can get down around the corners and curves.
Mees loves Eibach http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Gus Polinski (Jul 20, 2001)

What alignment settings are you guys running? SHould I tell the shop anything special?


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (Hawkmoon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hawkmoon* »_What alignment settings are you guys running? SHould I tell the shop anything special?









Tell the shop to align it according to GTI 337 specs (or maybe it's called sport suspension) makes a difference.


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## OstTrefftWest (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (alexb75)*

So from a ride-quality (impact harshness) standpoint, it sounds like the Pro-Dampers included with the Pro-System would be more comfortable than Koni Sports? I'm inferring this from an earlier post that "anyone who feels that the Pro-System is a bit underdamped" might want to try the Konis....


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (OstTrefftWest)*

Correct.


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## PocketRocket11 (Nov 9, 2003)

*Re: (.je)*

I am concerned about potential noise when I install my prosystem suspension. What is this fix that I hear of people wrapping the spring in something? 
Also what are the bushings that make noise? What do aftermarket ones do and can you direct me to where I can look at these, thanks.


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## vwboy308 (Aug 8, 2001)

*Re: (PocketRocket11)*

hey guys i am going to be getting the prosystem plus setup with sway bars. is there anything else i should buy to have this installed right the first time???? also how is the ride is it really stiff? or just better overall performance that stock. this is my daily driving car. is it going to be annoying???


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## OstTrefftWest (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (vwboy308)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwboy308* »_also how is the ride is it really stiff? or just better overall performance that stock. this is my daily driving car. is it going to be annoying???

From what I've gathered from reading the previous ten pages (if you haven't yet, do so -- it's worth the time), this is the cushiest lowering system out there, and it's still a substantial improvement over stock. Your System+ with sways should be even better for handling, without significant decrease in bump-absorption comfort. I know that's pretty vague -- but if you need more specifics, I really think you'll get them by re-reading this whole thread....


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## vwboy308 (Aug 8, 2001)

*Re: (OstTrefftWest)*

i looked over the thread. i am not real knowledgeable about suspension stuff. i just want some to put it in normal terms.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (vwboy308)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwboy308* »_also how is the ride is it really stiff? or just better overall performance that stock.

the latter: moderate improvement in handling but the ride is still quite decent

_Quote »_ this is my daily driving car. is it going to be annoying???

No. There is really nothing out there that is as close to stock as the Prosystem is in terms of ride comfort.


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## vwboy308 (Aug 8, 2001)

*Re: (catalytic)*

does eibach lifetime warranty all their stuff? including the shocks/struts?


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (vwboy308)*

By the way, I found another REALLY good shocks designed for Eibach prokits. It's made by Öhlins. Those guys make the race shocks for VW Racing. 
Check it out http://www.ohlinsusa.com 
They have two differnt kinds, VERY EXPENSIVE, $869 and $560 and are rebound adjustable. I was told by their rep Jeff that the shock were made to be matched with Eibach prokit.


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## Gus Polinski (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: (vwboy308)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwboy308* »_does eibach lifetime warranty all their stuff? including the shocks/struts?

Yes


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## Banks Performance (Sep 29, 2003)

For those of you who are interested in the ProSystem, we are selling them for $499. Check out our site for ordering info- http://www.banks-performance.com


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## Irishben (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: (Banks Performance)*

Can you quote a price with Bilstein HD or Sports instead of the Eibach/AKA Sachs struts+ shocks?? Thanx


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## Banks Performance (Sep 29, 2003)

You mean Bilstein Sports +EIbach Springs?


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## Pooz (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: (reruner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reruner* »_i finally finished this damn thread...all 11 pages...going to get this one. thanks to catalic for all your help!

11 pages of this thread = AWESOME info!! 
SOLD on the Prosystem.


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## johnny30 (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: (pooz01wolfsburg)*

Great information on this thread. Based on what I read here, I went ahead and finally pulled the trigger (my first mod). I purchased the Prosystem for $499.00 from shox.com. Just metion that you're a vortex member. Can't wait for this thing to arrive as I already talked to my mechanic about the install and alignment. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (johnny30)*


_Quote, originally posted by *johnny30* »_Great information on this thread. Based on what I read here, I went ahead and finally pulled the trigger (my first mod). I purchased the Prosystem for $499.00 from shox.com. Just metion that you're a vortex member. Can't wait for this thing to arrive as I already talked to my mechanic about the install and alignment. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I suggest to align it later. Install it first, drive it for a while (a thousand miles) to let it settle and then do a proper alignment. If you do that at the begining, u may have to do it again after settling.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (alexb75)*

Nah, it will only settle a quarter of an inch at most. Not worth the hassle IMO. Besides, they don't do much alignment to speak of anyways when you drop your car 1.25". It's more of a check than anything else. In the front, I didn't think camber or caster were adjustable (only toe). I can't remember what happens in the back, but I think shimming is involved in anything significant (which can cost you extra). Unless you want to do a perfectionist alignment and specify exact camber values and are willing to spend a bunch of money doing it (camber plates among other things), I think it's better to just get your quickie alignment done and out of the way.










_Modified by catalytic at 12:59 AM 3-4-2004_


----------



## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (catalytic)*

Not exactly Catalytic. The 0.25 settling can affect it a little. Also, for the rear if the shop is good they could get away without shims by re-adjusting exle (they did it for me). All in all, for MK4 the alignment doesn't get changed that much because of no adjustments.


----------



## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (alexb75)*

So what you're saying is: 
1. There's little change in the alignment with 0.25" settling
2. You can't really adjust the alignment anyways on a Mk4
That begs the question: in light of points 1 and 2, why bother fussing over when you get your alignment done? I would worry more about one's left-to-right weight balance (i.e., 6'2, 210 lb driver on the left, nobody on the right) than I would 0.1 degree camber that you can't adjust anyways.


----------



## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (catalytic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *catalytic* »_So what you're saying is: 
1. There's little change in the alignment with 0.25" settling
2. You can't really adjust the alignment anyways on a Mk4
That begs the question: in light of points 1 and 2, why bother fussing over when you get your alignment done? I would worry more about one's left-to-right weight balance (i.e., 6'2, 210 lb driver on the left, nobody on the right) than I would 0.1 degree camber that you can't adjust anyways.

What I mean is that, alignment adjustments are hard on MK4. However, if someone wants to do it right it is better to wait until the car settles. I mean it's better to be safe than sorry. My alignment totally changed after settling. For instance my rear toe was ok right after install but after settling, the toes were out. 
Now, the more important thing is a RIGHT SHOP. I posted my numbers somewhere (couldn't find it now), but the shop who worked on my car fixed my camber and toe BOTH front and rear with no shims. BTW, they guy who asked the question PMed me and I told him my opinion already, so it's up to him now how he wants to do it.


----------



## johnny30 (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: (alexb75)*

I just received my Prosystem in the mail and immediately brought it over to the mechanic who will be doing the install just to get a price quote. First thing he noticed was that the kit did not come with instructions. Notwithstanding the fact that this guy is a very competent mechanic, is there anything unique about installing this kit that I should forewarn him about?
I appreciate your input.


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## catalytic (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (johnny30)*

If he knows how to install aftermarket suspensions on a Mk4, there shouldn't be any surprises. The only advice I could give you is to use shorter bumpstops (often provided with kit), but if not, trim half the length off them. You'll know what i mean when you look at it. The point is that you will have 1.2" reduced suspension travel, and you will be hitting the bumpstops if you don't either trim them or use shorter ones.


----------



## reruner (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: (catalytic)*

I got the Pro System Plus installed today. Its so sweet. Cost me 400 to get installed. The problem is the clamps that came with the rear sway don't fit around the cross bar they are supposed to. Are they really important? Anyone have any suggestions how to fix this? Are we missing something?


----------



## 1.8T-ZRyder (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: (reruner)*

After the install of the Prosystem, how many found getting an alignment made a difference, either before or after it settled, or both? I don't have any suspension mods yet, looking at this system pretty seriously, and doing myself possibly. I could drive and get one done right after, or later on down the road, but with the minor adjustments you guys speak of, what are the chances some alignment guy is just going to look at it and charge me after not doing anything, know what I mean?


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## vwboy308 (Aug 8, 2001)

*Re: (1.8T-ZRyder)*

hey guys need a little help. i just installed pro system plus kit minus front sway bar. in the rear it soundsl ike the rear is slamming. what could this be from. any help would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATE: it was the rear sway banging into exhaust


_Modified by vwboy308 at 2:40 PM 3-15-2004_


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## Coolcrush (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: (vwboy308)*

Just ordered my Pro-system--cant wait to finally not







be driving the 4x4


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## WolfsBurg Man (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

Here's my problem, maybe one of you can help. I have had the Eibach Pro-System for about a year now on my 2000 Jetta. Initially when installed I didn't have too many problems except the car was very, very low, much more then 1.3" drop indicated. Looked in the box and my mechanic had forgot to put the provided bumpstops on for the sport suspension in the front. Instead, he re-used the OEM ones which I believe are longer. So I had him take it apart and put the right bumpstops on. Now the springs constantly squeak like there rubbing on the struts or the perch. Also, when it's really cold and/or snowing if you turn the car hard left or right you will hear a very loud clanging spring noise that reverberates through the whole car. My thoughts are he didn't leave enough space between the end of coil and the raise on the perch. Any other suggestions? as he is going to take it apart this weekend. Also, do you think any damage could have been caused to the spring or strut. I think he may have used an impact wrench so we may replace the strut bearings too.


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (WolfsBurg Man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsBurg Man* »_Here's my problem, maybe one of you can help. I have had the Eibach Pro-System for about a year now on my 2000 Jetta. Initially when installed I didn't have too many problems except the car was very, very low, much more then 1.3" drop indicated. Looked in the box and my mechanic had forgot to put the provided bumpstops on for the sport suspension in the front. Instead, he re-used the OEM ones which I believe are longer. So I had him take it apart and put the right bumpstops on. Now the springs constantly squeak like there rubbing on the struts or the perch. Also, when it's really cold and/or snowing if you turn the car hard left or right you will hear a very loud clanging spring noise that reverberates through the whole car. My thoughts are he didn't leave enough space between the end of coil and the raise on the perch. Any other suggestions? as he is going to take it apart this weekend. Also, do you think any damage could have been caused to the spring or strut. I think he may have used an impact wrench so we may replace the strut bearings too.

If for some reason you dropped more than 1.3" you might be rubbin on the swaybars, when the mechanic disassembled, ask him to check the swaybar and if there's any rubbing against driveshat. Eibach's are also a little known for noise and the spring must be installed at the right rotation or it will touch the body/strut.


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## Coolcrush (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (alexb75)*

Yeah that is strange that you are dropped lower than 1.3--considering with settling it should not be lower than 1.25--every car I have seen with this kit doesnt get that low..


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## WolfsBurg Man (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Coolcrush)*

The drop was more then 1.3" with the original bumpstops but not with the shortened bumpstops that come with the suspension kit.


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## Coolcrush (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (WolfsBurg Man)*

My bad I missed that part--that is y i was like wtf are u talkin about--thanks for clarifying.


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (WolfsBurg Man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsBurg Man* »_The drop was more then 1.3" with the original bumpstops but not with the shortened bumpstops that come with the suspension kit.

WHAT? What's that gotto do with drop? Do u mean rear bumpstop or front, or both?


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## Alan_G_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (catalytic)*

After scanning this thread most of the winter and feeling it was the setup for me, I went and ordered it, took about 3 weeks to get it, but it has been worth the wait. I got the ProSytem installed today, with an alignment, and have to say I am real pleased, the drop is just perfect for my tastes, really looses the 4X4 look without the slam, and should not attract to much police attention which is what I hoped. As for ride, I'm impressed as well. I put about 150 km's on the car today and really feel the car is greatly improved in the dive and sqawt areas, and it feels much more composed in cornering on fast sweepers, no big feeling of weight transfer anymore. I also like the fact that as a daily driver it won't be punishing at all I feel, it still soaks up bumps nice, not to harsh, just a bit firmer. To me it feels like it could have come from the factory like this. Great set-up in my opinion.


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## nanobot6 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: (reruner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reruner* »_I got the Pro System Plus installed today. Its so sweet. Cost me 400 to get installed. The problem is the clamps that came with the rear sway don't fit around the cross bar they are supposed to. Are they really important? Anyone have any suggestions how to fix this? Are we missing something?









Use longer bolts...


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## Gus Polinski (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: (nanobot6)*

Has anybody been able to get a proper alignment done? My camber is within specs, and the toe is slightly off. Shop says they can't adjust the camber, and I didn't think it was worth dropping the dough to get the toe adjusted.


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re:*

This thred inspired me to go with the eibach prosystem over another setup, so I figured I had to give back!
Installed my pro-system on my 03 GTI this last weekend ($500 at shox.com with vwvortex discount), adding it to my already-installed 28mm autotech rear sway bar. I am running 17" StilAuto SR500 wheels and half-worn Toyo Proxies FZ4 tires. Power mods include APR downpipe, miltek catback, APR 93, CAI, N75J, and MBC, all of which caused quite a need for more control.
Installation was easy, no big deal. I don't know why some people had such a problem with removing the passenger side (drivers? I'm forgetting which one didn't drop low enough) stock equipment. I just threw the spring compressors on the spring while it was still on the car, shortened everything up, and pulled it out. Overall the process went pretty quick, I used the autotech spreader tool, which I feel helped out a lot. Worth the $10, certainly.
Car is a lot more fun now, everything is tighter and faster to respond/recover. Before when I made a last-second decision to turn real quick, and jerked the wheel hard, the car would complain and then finally turn. Now it just charges into the turn, steadies itself, and waits for the next fast corner. The system is a lot more confidence-inspiring.
Overall I have no complaints. Lowering looks great, but not so low that I think I'll have a problem driving around during the winter and such. I've already hit some pretty interesting speed bumps and road bruises, no problem at all. I have no odd noises. Although the car is stiffer, it seems properly dampened, so the ride quality has not dropped at all. I have hit a number of bumps and holes and there is no jarring effect, bumps feel more solid but not at all more rough. There are some nasty railroad tracks I go over every day, and I can honestly say that going over them is even better on the pro-system because the car stays more level instead of tossing me left and right like before (you have to cross the tracks diagonally).
Pushing the car hard around corners is a blast. I think the car loses traction easier now, and the tires definitly make a lot more noise than before (tire squeal). I feel this is a function of a number of things, including my rear sway bar, the car being more firmly planted on the ground, lack of re-alignment, and the fact that I'm taking corners a lot faster now







. 
While the car slides easily when pushed, it slides very balanced and neutral. I am by no means a professional driver and I have lots of confidence sliding around a corner with this system. Not to say it slides constantly, only when I push it to the absolute limit, which is where the most fun is







. Before, with the stock suspension, getting the vehicle in a slide meant complete loss of control and a need to slow down before understeering into a ditch. Now, when I break into a slide, it's just the decision of how much harder I need to push it until my outside tires hit the edge of the pavement and I have to ease off a bit. It's that easy to control.
Well, kind of a long post, but I tried to create the kind of write-up I was wanting to read when shopping for my suspension. If anyone has any questions, wants pictures, or is in the area and needs to test drive the prokit before they shell out the $500, let me know.


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## Gus Polinski (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: Re: (LeChefJosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LeChefJosh* »_
Installation was easy, no big deal. I don't know why some people had such a problem with removing the passenger side (drivers? I'm forgetting which one didn't drop low enough) stock equipment. I just threw the spring compressors on the spring while it was still on the car, shortened everything up, and pulled it out. 

I think it depends on what spring compressor you use. The one we had at our disposal wouldn't compress it enough so it'd pull out. We had to drop the subframe.


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## OstTrefftWest (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: (LeChefJosh)*

Out of curiosity, what setting do you have your Autotech on with the new ProSystem? I'm experimenting with mine on stiff (with otherwise-stock suspension -- just for now!), and find that the ride is pretty jiggly. I'm hoping that if I get stiffer springs to do some of the work, I can soften the bar up to regain a little independence in back -- since I think that's the real reason for my ride harshness right now, rather than the extra stiffness in itself....
And I wouldn't mind a picture -- I'm afraid it might be a little low for my tastes, but I'm still intrigued....


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: (OstTrefftWest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hawkmoon* »_
I think it depends on what spring compressor you use. The one we had at our disposal wouldn't compress it enough so it'd pull out. We had to drop the subframe. 

I used a standard spring compressor I borrowed from auto zone. Because of the length of it, I couldn't tighten up the spring enough because the end of the shaft kept hitting the top of the strut tower (I had it upside-down so I could get the wrench on the right end). What I ended up having to do is to get a handful of big thick washers and use those to add more length to the bottom, thus shortening the top and giving me the clearance I needed.


_Quote, originally posted by *OstTrefftWest* »_Out of curiosity, what setting do you have your Autotech on with the new ProSystem? I'm experimenting with mine on stiff (with otherwise-stock suspension -- just for now!), and find that the ride is pretty jiggly. I'm hoping that if I get stiffer springs to do some of the work, I can soften the bar up to regain a little independence in back -- since I think that's the real reason for my ride harshness right now, rather than the extra stiffness in itself....
And I wouldn't mind a picture -- I'm afraid it might be a little low for my tastes, but I'm still intrigued....

I'm using the middle setting on the newer bracket style (the light colored aluminum with red poly bushings type). I haven't experimented with anything else yet since I've been satisfied with the balance this provides. I will play with it more later.
I think you'll find this is not too low for anybodys tastes, it basically brings the car down the way it should look stock. You're average joe wouldn't think the car is lowered at all. I'll take a picture in the daylight tomorrow and post up a before/after shot.


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re:*

Okay, here are some before/after shots. It was rainy today so I had to mess with the brightness on the shot, but you can at least see the drop.
EDIT: I forgot that in these 'Before' shots that the rear eibach shocks/springs were on the car already. So only the fronts are going to change in the pictures.
Before








After








Before








After








Front Shot








Sorry for using up all of page 12, just trying to add more useful data to the thread










_Modified by LeChefJosh at 10:47 AM 4-3-2004_


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## improvius (Mar 6, 2001)

*Re: Re: (LeChefJosh)*

Nice work, Josh. I think we'll both have to write more after comparing our setups. (For those who don't know, Josh and I work at the same office complex, so we see each other's rides every day.) I was looking at the Eibach set, too, but decided to go with SofSports and Bilstein HDs. I think so far both of us are very happy with what we chose. And as soon as this damn SNOW goes away we can do more test driving.
-Imp


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## Pooz (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: Re: (LeChefJosh)*

Great job Josh. I see you are in NY. Are you in the area for this weekly GTG at all?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1037234
If so, I'd love a ride. I have my kit on order, and it's scheduled to arrive this Wednesday. Then I'll be installing it with my friend who works at Toyota where we can use a lift








I'm on the "wife-factor" for things when it comes to the car. She's probably going to have a cow when I told her I spent $500 on the car (where there was nothing "broken" to fix).


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## Pushrods (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Re: (pooz01wolfsburg)*

Looks good Josh. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'll have to take a closer look at the next gtg. The ProSystem is at the top of my list right now.

pooz- We're a little far from NYC up here.


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## johnny30 (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: (JettaGL_1.8T)*

Got the Eibach Prosystem installed the other day. While the car rides nice, and there is a noticable drop in the rear, the front doesn't look like it lowered at all. The mechanic did use the bump-stops that came with the kit. Anybody???? Thanks, Johnny


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: (johnny30)*

Johnny,
Did your mechanic take out the aluminum spacer in the front? 
Also, side by side, it would appear that the stock bump stops and the pro-system bump stops are the same. At least they seem that way from a visual inspection. Same shape, same color, same size.


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## johnny30 (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: (LeChefJosh)*

I'll have to ask tomorrow, but I have afeeling that he didn't since the only parts he put back in the box where the OEM struts and springs. Question, how involved is it in removing the aluminum spacers in the front? Thanks, Josh.
Johnny


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: (johnny30)*

From where you are now, it's roughly as involved as removing the suspension again. The aluminum spacer is a small ring that rides under the strut bearing, so you have to drop the suspension out and pull it off the strut.


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## WolfsBurg Man (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Re: (LeChefJosh)*

I have had the Eibach Pro-System for about a year now, I don't think the aluminum spacer was removed on my suspension either. In the Eibach instruction's it says to re-use all parts from the stock set-up unless indicated (like the bumpstops). My mechanic already left on the stock bumpstops so I had to have him take the suspension apart to install the sport suspension bumpstops. If I leave the aluminum spacers on with it affect anything? why isn't this procedure indicated on the install instructions? I have read several posts about this issue and seems some leave them on while others remove the spacers.


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## johnny30 (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: (WolfsBurg Man)*

I called the dealership that did the install (Holbert's) and they said that they had no idea what I was talking about, and then began to question me reagrding who was telling me that the spacers should (or could) be removed. What the heck, over.


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: (johnny30)*

The spacer is, just that, a glorified washer. From what I've read, and what I've seen from taking apart my suspension, it serves no other purpose than to add height to the system. The oil pan on our cars hangs very low, and is in danger of being hit even with the stock suspension. VW probably added the spacer in to help with this. I believe this was added an afterthought, as I have heard of earlier MKIV's not having this spacer.
Regardless, the spacer serves no real functional purpose in an aftermarket suspension kit, aside from adding roughly 10mm of extra height, or about 0.4".
I do not feel this spacer is necessary for the Eibach ProSystem.


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: spacers (LeChefJosh)*

It's coming!! My PS+ is coming! I'm planning to do the backs myself, and give the fronts to my shop, but I'm not sure about the spacer thing.. 
LeChefJosh, when you say you've heard of older IV's not having the spacer, was there a particular cutoff year when the spacer was added?


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: spacers (jakdawgus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jakdawgus* »_It's coming!! My PS+ is coming! I'm planning to do the backs myself, and give the fronts to my shop, but I'm not sure about the spacer thing.. 
LeChefJosh, when you say you've heard of older IV's not having the spacer, was there a particular cutoff year when the spacer was added?

The available data seems to be pretty sketchy, and I've only seen limited samples first-hand. Some say that anything before 2001 didn't have the spacer. A number of people have said that the spacer wasn't present on their European-market cars. It's tough to say for sure.
If you have the tools and knowledge to do the rear suspension, you're really close to what you need to do the fronts. It's not terribly difficult. Get the spreader tool from autotech, a strut nut tool or impact wrench (a butterfly worked fine for me), and rent a spring compressor. Its a fun project that won't take much more than an afternoon.


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: DIY*

As my ride is 99.5 MKIV, I'm pretty sure I wont find spacers, but...
Thanks for the encouragement, Josh the Chef. I'd really love to do the fronts myself, for the $$ saved and the satisfaction. I'd just hate to get caught halfway through and f*** up. I ordered the autotech tool, and can get a spring compressor... My buddy has an impact wrench. I'm not sure what you meant by a butterfly. Can you explain?
Also, I'm planning to do the Front ASB, which I think means the subframe has to be dropped. Does dropping the subframe factor into the "not terribly difficult" assesment of the work involved up front? I'd like to know your (and any other DIY'ers) thoughts. -John


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: DIY (jakdawgus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jakdawgus* »_As my ride is 99.5 MKIV, I'm pretty sure I wont find spacers, but...
Thanks for the encouragement, Josh the Chef. I'd really love to do the fronts myself, for the $$ saved and the satisfaction. I'd just hate to get caught halfway through and f*** up. I ordered the autotech tool, and can get a spring compressor... My buddy has an impact wrench. I'm not sure what you meant by a butterfly. Can you explain?
Also, I'm planning to do the Front ASB, which I think means the subframe has to be dropped. Does dropping the subframe factor into the "not terribly difficult" assesment of the work involved up front? I'd like to know your (and any other DIY'ers) thoughts. -John

Sounds like you'll have everything you need to complete the fronts. A butterfly is just another type of air tool, wussier than an impact wrench, but did the job fine for me.
On one side of the suspension, once you loosen up the clamp holding the bottom of the strut, everything drops down below the strut and the bottom of the strut is free to be pulled out (once you remote the strut tower bolts up top, of course). On the other side of the car, when you loosen up the clamp holding the strut base, it drops down but not far enough to allow the full strut to come out. It still has about 3/4" to go.
So, you have a couple ways to do this. You can drop the subframe, which when then drops the strut clamp, and then you can take everything out. The easier ( I think so ) way is to somehow rig your spring compressors onto the spring while it's on the car, and compress it. This shortens the spring, so you can compress the strut (can be done by hand easily) and vioula, you've got your 3/4" and can remove the base of the strut from the clamp. I used the "OEM" brand of spring compressor that you can borrow from AutoZone with a $40 security deposit. 
I hope this makes sense. Once you get into everything, you'll see. 
This is a great FAQ. It is for coilovers, but everything applies. Take note of the picture for step 7, where he places the autotech spreader tool. It works best towards the bottom of the clamp there, because you can bury the whole tip of the tool into it.
http://www.nclh.org/car/coilover_howto/
Of all the mods I've done to my car, suspension was one of the most straight-forward and enjoyable, so don't miss the opportunity


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: DIY (LeChefJosh)*

^ Great tips, man. I think I'll do it myself after all! That's a great link too. Very detailed and awesome photos. I'll have to send him gratitude.
Still, I'm pretty sure the subframe will have to drop to to the front ASB, which he (and most others) do not describe in their DIY's. The Autotech front ASB instructions in the MKIV DIY thread seem semi-doable, but there's nothing like pics to make it clear.


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: DIY (jakdawgus)*

Well, look what showed up yesterday!!








I was planning to do it all myself on Sunday, but the damn stuff didn't arrive until yesteday. Next few weekends are busy... So I called my regular mechanic. Get this: he's doing all four corners, plus a four-wheel alignment, for $220. Some guys on this post were talking about $400 or more to install the springs and dampers!! At 220, it's a lot easier to swallow. (I'll do the sway bars later, myself, so I can judge the improvement.)
Can't wait for this weekend's road trip out to the twisty mountain roads in the Berkshires!!


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## donithegreek (Jun 18, 2002)

is the prosystem comparable to the FK High Tec Suspension package?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

*Re: (donithegreek)*

My question to everyone is whether or not it is worth it to get the Pro-System Plus or just the regular Pro-System. I understand that the basic difference is that the Plus has the swaybars. 
My goal on my 2000 GLS VR6 is to tighten things up and make the car a bit more fun to drive and far less 'sloppy'. Is the "plus" a bit overkill - and more importantly, if I decide I want the sway bars down the road, can I purchase those separately and would the installation be a pain if I don't do it upfront?


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (Travis Grundke)*

RE: Prosys or Pro sys plus.. I got a great deal on the Plus package, but so far I have only installed the springs and dampers. The car feels much better than before - definitely less sloppy. However, it still plows a bit. I plan to put some pics in this thread with the drop once the time is right.
Meanwhile, I'm planning to put the rear bar in myself soon, so I'll be able to describe the difference. The rear bar is easy to install with jack stands and maybe a buddy to hold it while you tighten bolts and such. If I find the tail is too snappy, I'll beef up the front bar. 
The front bar is much more work, but not crazy. See the Autotech front bar installation instructions from the MKIV DIY:
http://www.autotech.com/instructions/i4251525.pdf
Disclaimer: My '00 GTI came with base-model GL suspension, meaning a 21mm front bar came stock (not 23mm as on the "sport" susp.) Thus the Eibach front bar is heavier (22mm) than my stock bar. The design of the bends may also affect the bars' effective stiffnesses. Regardless, if you have the "sport" package, you have a 23mm front bar, and you may get less benefit from the front Eibach bar. I think Eibach had a precise handling characteristic in mind when they designed their bars, and maybe the 23mm stock sport bar was too stiff, i.e. still understeers with the Eibach rear bar only, and so they engineered a 22mm front bar to better complement their rear bar. Note that they only sell them as a front/rear kit! 
My best-guess recommendation (before I've installed any bars yet







) is if you have the sport suspension, just get the basic Pro-System, and get a 25mm neuspeed or autotech adjustable rear sway bar later, to firm up the back and neutralize the handling. If you have the base suspension, go for the full Pro-System-Plus.
I'll have more to say after I get one or both bars installed. Good luck!
-JD
(edit: wording)


_Modified by jakdawgus at 8:04 PM 4-26-2004_


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## BBMW (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (jakdawgus)*

JD,
Your the first poster I've read who's gotten the whole PS+ kit. I'm strongly considering the whole kit, so I'm dying for you to get damn bars on the car and report back. So get cracking!!!!


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (BBMW)*

A'ight a'ight! I have been a busy li'l slacker lately. Hopefully next Sunday will do the bars. 
First road trip on my car last week - Boston to Philly to DC to Richmond, then 11 hours back yesterday - old-skool homies toghetha for my friend's wedding! Everyone got to try the ride with the '-system' on stock 16" montreals... let's just say no one got out of the cockpit w/o a big grin!
I'll get on it. Cheers!


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus*

Regarding the decision to go with the pro system or the pro system plus, here are my thoughts:
I do feel the eibach pro system benefits from an upgraded rear sway. However, the pro system plus might not be the best way to do this.
The pro system plus comes with front and rear sway bars. This comes at a cost which is $300+ over the regular kit (going by shox.com prices, estimating in the discount, quoted price is $343 more). 
You really don't need to replace the front sway, especially if you have the factory-upgraded unit found in the sport suspension package. Really the only useful hardware you're getting is the rear sway. Now, in a decent group buy or sale, you can get a top-end AutoTech or Neuspeed adjustable 28mm rear sway for under $200 shipped. Not that the eibach bar isn't fine, but this route saves you $100+, gets you a great bar, and allows you to add it anytime you want.


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (LeChefJosh)*

Yeah, like I said two posts above - it depends on if you got the sport susp. or not... and of course what kind of deal you can score


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## jschweg (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (jakdawgus)*

Damn. This thread is like an infomercial.
I start reading with the thought that this might be the kit I want, by the time I'm done reading I'm ready to whip the credit card out.
Excellent post, very informative.


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## BBMW (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (LeChefJosh)*

I don't know if I buy this. The advantage of buying the whole kit is that Eibach had the opportunity of balancing the handling using the spring, shocks, and bars, all at the same time. They have the resources and expertice to do this, whereas the vast majority of car owner do not. The bars are pretty integral to the handling equation, so I think I'd want them dialed in correctly.

_Quote, originally posted by *LeChefJosh* »_Regarding the decision to go with the pro system or the pro system plus, here are my thoughts:
I do feel the eibach pro system benefits from an upgraded rear sway. However, the pro system plus might not be the best way to do this.
The pro system plus comes with front and rear sway bars. This comes at a cost which is $300+ over the regular kit (going by shox.com prices, estimating in the discount, quoted price is $343 more). 
You really don't need to replace the front sway, especially if you have the factory-upgraded unit found in the sport suspension package. Really the only useful hardware you're getting is the rear sway. Now, in a decent group buy or sale, you can get a top-end AutoTech or Neuspeed adjustable 28mm rear sway for under $200 shipped. Not that the eibach bar isn't fine, but this route saves you $100+, gets you a great bar, and allows you to add it anytime you want.


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## OstTrefftWest (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (BBMW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BBMW* »_Eibach had the opportunity of balancing the handling using the spring, shocks, and bars, all at the same time. * * * The bars are pretty integral to the handling equation, so I think I'd want them dialed in correctly.

I think that's less true of the bars than it is of the shock/spring combo. For a given power of spring, there's going to be a pretty narrow acceptable window of damping for it -- there'll be some variations according to driver tastes, but generally within a fairly narrow range, I'd think.
The bars, by contrast, are more about the balance of the car, and are much more a matter of driver taste -- do you want heavy bars front and rear (stable, but not as nimble), or soft front and stiff back (nimble and tail-happy, but not as stable), or something in between? That part is much more subjective.
Still, you have a point in that I doubt many people would be disappointed with the handling of a complete Pro-System+ (at least not if they're also concerned with comfort), because it is indeed tuned as a package.


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (BBMW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BBMW* »_I don't know if I buy this. The advantage of buying the whole kit is that Eibach had the opportunity of balancing the handling using the spring, shocks, and bars, all at the same time. They have the resources and expertice to do this, whereas the vast majority of car owner do not. The bars are pretty integral to the handling equation, so I think I'd want them dialed in correctly.


Although I understand your concern, matching a sway bar with a shock/spring combo is different than matching a shock to a spring. A rear sway bar works independently of the rest of the suspension, tightening up the rear of the car. Conversely, a shock and spring travel together, which means they must be properly matched for the amount of travel, rebound, dampening, etc experienced. If these two are not matched correctly, you get a bouncy/uncomfortable ride, bottoming out too much, or other unfun things. Sway bars operate under the principle that "more" is better. That's why you find so many people putting their adjustable bars on 'hard' and leaving it. 
And, then we come to the best part about the..uhh... after-after-market bars, they are adjustable to fit your needs. From what I can tell, the Eibach one is not, although anyone is free to correct me.
I think sway bars are a lot more like tires than matched suspension sets, you can never have too much grip!


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## BBMW (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (LeChefJosh)*

Josh,
I had stumbled across, and subsequently lost track of very good thread (on vortex) on how you can screw up your car's handling through poor choice of sway bars. If I run into it again I'll like it.
Also, springs and bars do interact. The bars make the suspension less independent, this is not always a good thing. If you could get the desired roll resistance with springs alone, that would be better, but compliance would be unacceptable. When dealing with lateral forces, the effect of the spring and the bar are additive. On a bump, especially one that affects both wheels, they shouldn't be. So I still think it's a good idea to optimize the spring and bars together. Of course you want them optimised for the ride/handling level you desire.

_Quote, originally posted by *LeChefJosh* »_
Although I understand your concern, matching a sway bar with a shock/spring combo is different than matching a shock to a spring. A rear sway bar works independently of the rest of the suspension, tightening up the rear of the car. Conversely, a shock and spring travel together, which means they must be properly matched for the amount of travel, rebound, dampening, etc experienced. If these two are not matched correctly, you get a bouncy/uncomfortable ride, bottoming out too much, or other unfun things. Sway bars operate under the principle that "more" is better. That's why you find so many people putting their adjustable bars on 'hard' and leaving it. 
And, then we come to the best part about the..uhh... after-after-market bars, they are adjustable to fit your needs. From what I can tell, the Eibach one is not, although anyone is free to correct me.
I think sway bars are a lot more like tires than matched suspension sets, you can never have too much grip!


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (BBMW)*

OK! I now have the rear half of Eibach's Anti Roll Kit (came with my Pro Sys +) installed. Here are my thoughts. The install had minor issues, described below. For a description of the ride, skip to the end.
*Rear Bar Only*
I only put the rear bar in principally because it began raining while my pal and I were working on the car in his driveway. We had limited time, so we did the rear bar and took the car down. I had actually been thinking I wanted to test-drive the car with just the rear bar before doing the front, so i could judge the difference. Guess I got my wish!
*Install*
The installation was fairly straghtforward, though the Eibach directions were spotty. I almost thought I got the wrong bar! What I got was the wrong instructions. 
Because it was Sunday morning, I didn't think I'd be able to get tech support from Eibach, so I just muddled through it, hoping for the best. I really wanted to try it out! I called them today (Monday) to describe the install problems. Blaine at Eibach deduced that I got the instructions for a MKIII and apologized. So the obstacles I encountered are normal. The resonance weight Eibach suggests discarding outright. (I like my solution better.) The plastic shrouds they suggest chucking, trimming with a razor, or stuffing the bar in as I did (i'll trim it soon). Also, placing the band clamps at the indentation in the beam (abt. 4" from the inner bend on the bar) is correct. Blaine assured me I had installed the correct bar for this car.








I There were three little issues. 
1. The bolts that hold on the anti-resonance weight at the center of the axle beam DID interfere with the bar. I thought I heard this wasn't a problem with this bar. The bolts look like this (from the MKIV DIY Neuspeed Rear ASB, thanks Joe Lucchio):








Neuspeed provdes low-profile bolts to replace the stock ones, but my pal Jeremy spotted a matched set of holes on the top side of the beam. I just removed the weight and mounted it in those holes, so it's in the same place but upside down. (It was a little hard to get a 13mm box end wrench up to the bolts on top of the beam.)
2. There are triangular black plastic shrouds mounted at the ends of the beam which extended from the beam back to the lower shock link point. They interfered with the bar at the bar's inner bends, and I had to wedge the bent corner of the bar between the shroud and the beam to get it up against the beam. This did not seem very cool to me. I don't know how important those shrouds are, but I decided to leave them deformed but in place for now, rather than ripping them off. Maybe they'll block some chips in the bar. The result looks like this:








Total time was close to two hours start to finish, but probably having the wrong instructions slowed us down.







For reference, I oriented the bar with the bolting tabs pointing downward, as in this picture:









*Ride Comments*
Well, despite the install problems, it must be working somehow, because the ride has changed significantly! And definitely for the better.
As I mentioned above, we had to stop at just the rear bar because it started raining. This meant that my first test drive was under conditions that lend themselves particluarly well to losing traction.







I could easily push the car and find out how it feels when it breaks free at lower speeds, and with less tire wear, than on dry pavement. I could instantly feel a new responsiveness in the steering around curves. The roll is reduced, of course, but also the car just feels more nimble. I am not highly experienced in performance driving, but I found I could steer with the throttle on sustained sweepers. However, once or twice going around this one particular rotary, I intentionally mashed the throttle at the wrong time and instantly began understeering towards the curb, and it was hard to get the car back in line without some drama.
Enough about wet pavement - it cleared up that afternoon, so I got a chance to go out late in the day, with the sun low in the sky and the roads dry as ever. This is where the real fun began! Before when I put the Pro springs and dampers in, I loved the improvement over stock. The car was much more capable and fun to drive. However, it now really feels different with the bar in there! The bar changed the car from merely "capable" to downright "tossable". 
Gone is that nervous feeling on high-speed curves of "c'mon, keep turning, c'mon" and having to push the car through the turns. This car is so much more nimble, and responsive, and the balanced ride through curves is much more confidence-inspiring. At lower speeds and sharper turns, the car's ability to launch out of a turn in low gears without losing traction is much improved. Roll has been reduced as well, and the car seems to settle into curves almost immediately. Quick lane changes are precise and accomplished without fanfare, but with a good deal of seat-of-the-pants feedback, which is more than welcome.
Improvements like the Pro System and the rear bar really bring out the deficencies in my tire setup. Stock, the car didn't communicate much before losing traction. It almost seemed like the load would build up on just the outside front tire, and when it had had enough, it let go without much warning. With the Pro System installed, suddenly the tires were sharing the loads more, and grip was much more progressive. The Goodyears that came on the 16" Montreal rims wear long, but don't have tons of grip, and they were now squealing like piglets! I think LeChefJosh noted this effect, though I don't think the car is losing traction any sooner, I just think it feels so much easier to go fast through curves, and the squealing is louder for it. The rear bar now brings the outside REAR tire's voice up more clearly in the chorus, so to speak. For reference, I'm running these at 41psi(f) and 38(r) which I've found is a decent combo on this rubber. 
Even with the dynamic feeling of the rear wheels being so much more involved in the turns, I would definitely not call the car "tail-happy." I feared, having not done the bigger front bar, that the back end would break free too easily. On the contrary, I found that even pushing it hard and lifting the throttle suddenly in a low gear, or even touching the brakes, the back wheels would juuuust start losing lateral grip. The feeling is new to me, as this car is the sportiest I've had, but yet it seemed very controllable and not scary at all. I'm seriously considering forgoing the time and trouble of installing the front bar, as I can't really imagine wanting more understeer. I can imagine enjoying a tiny bit less body roll, but is it worth it? I really can't say. I can say that the car is very fun right now. 
*Ride Harshness*
The back end definitely "communicates" much more of the impact from a bump on one side to the rest of the car. I can hear and feel more of the ripples of uneven pavement, especially when turning. That said, the ride isn't significantly more harsh or jostly. I'm just more aware of what's going on under the tires. In fact, there is less side-to-side tossing from big asymmetrical bumps and dips, which I consider an improvement.
*Summary*
I'd have to say at this point that I'm very happy with the rear bar, but I don't see a big need for the front bar, and am in no rush to install it. (Blaine at Eibach said it takes them 2 1/2 hours on a lift, and they've done dozens!) I agree that there are advantages in almost anything of designing upgrades "as a system." It's just that, given the conventional wisdom about the effects of a stiffer front bar, I don't think my car needs it. It's possible that a Jetta, longer and heavier in the rear, would oversteer more than my GTI, and benefit more from the front bar. I guess I'll have to try it someday to satisfy my curiosity. If my car then understeers too much, well, I guess I'll just have to get an even BIGGER rear bar to compensate! 
Adois, Vortexos








-JD



_Modified by jakdawgus at 3:04 PM 5-11-2004_


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## Larrys' GTI (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

What is the difference between the following:
1. The factory sport suspension that my GTI came with
2. The Eibach "sport" springs I can by from Drivers Gear.com
3. The Eibach springs in the pro kit.
Thanks Everyone!!!


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## OstTrefftWest (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Larrys' GTI)*

Factory "sport" suspension has nothing to do with either. The DriverGear Eibachs are extremely similar to the ordinary ProKit springs -- practically identical. Either is stiffer and lower than stock. ("Stiffer" is good; "lower" is a compromise that you should learn about by reading all 23-whatever pages of the sticky thread on lowering.)
Welcome aboard.


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## Dicardo (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Larrys' GTI)*

The stock set-up is simply VAG's idea of a sport suspension. It utilizes I believe both stiffer springs and a larger diameter shock than the standard suspension.
Eibach & VW make virtually the same kit, although even VW hasn't been able to tell me that they are exact just "very similar". For all intents and purposes though they are identical.
I am so impressed with the Eibach set-up (although I did not replace the front sway bar as the Eibach bar is virtually identical and I put in a Neuspeed rear sway instead). My wife has driven the and not once noted any difference in the way the car drives. Handling is improved 100% over stock and the car is simply more composed and poised in any situation. The suspension settles immediately and the over-all feel of the suspension is taut without unnessary harshness. Just read the first post. I couldn't agree more.


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Dicardo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dicardo* »_
Eibach & VW make virtually the same kit, although even VW hasn't been able to tell me that they are exact just "very similar". For all intents and purposes though they are identical.

I'm pretty sure the VW/Eibach springs are not as stiff, nor give the same drop, as the actual Pro-Kit springs. The VW/Eibach springs are somewhere in the middle, and people actually run them with stock dampers and get a decent ride. I think if you tried this with Pro Kit springs, the car would bounce all over the place, and blow out the stock dampers in short order. The VW "sport suspension" package dampers are a little firmer, but still not as firm as the Pro System dampers.

_Quote »_
Handling is improved 100% over stock and the car is simply more composed and poised in any situation. The suspension settles immediately and the over-all feel of the suspension is taut without unnessary harshness. Just read the first post. I couldn't agree more.

And I couldn't agree more either. It's a great setup.


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## qwertyb22 (May 10, 2004)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (jakdawgus)*

I had ordered a ProKit, but am thinking I should just quit being cheap and get the ProSystem. I haven't recieved the ProKit yet, but from what it sounds like, the ProSystem is a very good set up. I have a 1.8t Golf, and to my knowledge don't have the sports suspension, I just got the car about a month ago. My only concern in going from my mushy stock suspension to the ProSystem is that it might be too harsh for driving in NYC or Boston, and I head into both cities regularly and some of those roads are less than smooth. Basically, I just want someone to reassure me that the ProSystem isnt going to have my cd player skipping and by car bottoming out... I had H&R Sports on my old Jetta, and though I loved the ride most times, it would drive me crazy when I would bottom out over a speed bump or skip the cd player in a pothole...


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (qwertyb22)*

Yeah, go for the pro system, I cheaped out initally too with just the pro kit. Definitely adding the dampers makes the ride less harsh and less bouncy. the stock dampers just didn't handle the spring rates of the pro kit very well. get them from banks performance, they took a while to get here, but they are cheaper with them than anywhere else. 350$ compared to 390 at shox.com.


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## chuckt75 (May 11, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (salsanacho)*

Yeah, wish I'd taken everyone's advice about 10 mo's ago when I foolishly decided to pair the NorAm Pro-Kit with the factory "sport" suspension. . .22K miles later and the factory dampers were SHOT and I was bouncing all over the place.







Just had the guys at Oldskool Industries install my Pro-Dampers and I love my GLI again!







This set-up is absolutely everything that Catalytic says it is--poised and responsive, but not too harsh--so if you're thinking of buying the Pro-Kit for the drop, just suck it up and buy the springs and dampers together. Sure it's another $200--250 investment up front, but your car (and your passengers) will thank you down the road. (P.S. see the link to my car below for shots of the factory set-up vs. the Pro-kit)
P.P.S. Got my Pro-Dampers for $350 from Shox.com (just mention the Vortex and Mark will hook you up) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## qwertyb22 (May 10, 2004)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (chuckt75)*

Done and done. Thanks guys, the ProSystem is in the mail.


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## jakdawgus (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (qwertyb22)*

U won't regret it!


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## clark w. griswold (Feb 13, 2004)

great reviews on the pro-system. i want this system for my 03 GLI, but i have a feeling that i might end up "outgrowing" the drop and end up wanting the _sport_-system for a tighter setup and a lower drop. has anyone either ridden in, or installed the _sport_-system? is the ride harsh over bumps? any bouncing, or rubbing issues (with stock rims/tires)? any feedback would be great. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Kantor (Mar 13, 2004)

I just purchased my pro-dampers and a neuspeed 25mm rear sway bar and leaving the OEM one in front. Do you think that I shouls have bought the whole kit from ebach with sway bars?


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## jetblack (Mar 6, 2001)

*VW eibach vs. eibach ProKit*

my set-up is VW Eibach springs and Pro-Dampers.
i'm under the impression that my car is not sitting as low as the ones with the eibach pro-kit.
so there is a real difference between the springs sold at the dealership and the "real" prokit.
jr


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: VW eibach vs. eibach ProKit (jetblack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetblack* »_my set-up is VW Eibach springs and Pro-Dampers.
i'm under the impression that my car is not sitting as low as the ones with the eibach pro-kit.
so there is a real difference between the springs sold at the dealership and the "real" prokit.
jr


Yes, there is a difference. The VW-Eibach springs are designed to work with the stock sport suspension dampers, where as the pro-kit springs are designed to work with the aftermarket Eibach dampers. 
Because of this, the VW-Eibach springs do not drop your car as low as the pro-kit springs.


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## clark w. griswold (Feb 13, 2004)

heres another question about the pro-system. one of my biggest problems with the stock suspension is the amount of nose lift/dive when acceleration and shifting thru gears. does this system keep the car more straight and level? feels like i'm almost doing wheelies fer pete's sake!


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: (clark w. griswold)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clark w. griswold* »_heres another question about the pro-system. one of my biggest problems with the stock suspension is the amount of nose lift/dive when acceleration and shifting thru gears. does this system keep the car more straight and level? feels like i'm almost doing wheelies fer pete's sake!









Yes, this and just about any other suspension system will reduce dive and squat significantly. The squishyness of the stock suspension, matched with the heavy weight and good torque of our cars, causes this. The nose-heavy VR6 gets hit the hardest in the dive department.


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## clark w. griswold (Feb 13, 2004)

*Re: (LeChefJosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LeChefJosh* »_
Yes, this and just about any other suspension system will reduce dive and squat significantly. The squishyness of the stock suspension, matched with the heavy weight and good torque of our cars, causes this. The nose-heavy VR6 gets hit the hardest in the dive department.


word http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Henni (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I have a real ignoramous question.
I want to get Eibach Pro springs, but how do you think KYB shocks will work with them? are they really stiff for street? Should I just get the Springs w/ KYB or springs with shock absorbers from eibach, I already have sway bars, (25 & 28 mm)I think they might be too big, is it also possible to have WAY TOO big sway bars also? I like a stiff ride!! I will eventually auto cross, but that is way down the way, I can always switch to coilovers... please help...


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Henni)*

What's stopping you from just going to coilovers right now? How far away are you from autocrossing? If you know you are heading in the direction of coilovers, it seems to me like you'd be wasting money buying a different setup right now. Or is the idea that you want to see how your Eibach/KYB setup will work and then change it if necessary? Otherwise, I'd say just get the coilovers right now and then you'll be setup for a good long time.


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## Henni (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (salsanacho)*

I guess it would be cash flow for right now, my car is starting to bounce pretty bad, will not have the cash for the coilovers for about a year or two (money going into the engine right now), I guess I want something that performs really great for not the price of 1100-1300 for coil overs. I have a spare car to put them in, that will eventually be a daily driver that I want to have really good suspension (I like it tight, but not too tight to rattle the fillings in my teeth out, or need the use of a kidney belt that I need to have while riding in my dad's Toronado) when everything is ready for it(the spare car) to run the suspension will be transplanted from my current car into the spare. I am not trying to throw money away. just place a kick a$$ good suspension in my current running car, to then place in the future of the other car (daily driver) so nothing goes to waste. I guess I am looking for a setup that will really perform really well for street, and then to eventually transplant that suspension into my other car (daily driver) when my current one will be raced, put up on jack stands, sit and when my wallet can handle the money for the coilovers. The coilovers will be an investment. (konis maby, but too far to see yet). also what about the set up with 16 in' wheels with super sized(already on the car) sway bars? too much gap for the 16's? 
I have raced my old 510 Datsun(That bitch had an 88' STOCK VG30 V6 300Z engine on it, extremely FAST!!!) with KYBS they are pretty stiff, but how do you think they will handle with eibach springs? 
sorry, I am a 3rd shifter, darn tired, I probably make no sense, but just looking for good adivce.


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Henni)*

Ah ok, that makes sense, I thought you were going to replace the Eibachs with the coilovers, since you have that second car it makes sense. I'd say just get the Prosystem from Eibach, it's probably one of the most affordable combinations out there right now (especially since shox.com and banks performance have good package deals on it) and it performs well. It will also transfer over to your daily driver well since its not that stiff.


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## Henni (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (salsanacho)*

what you mean by "not so stiff" does that mean that it is a small step up above stock? or a really good improvement?


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (Henni)*

Basically what others have said in this (very long) thread. It definitely is an improvment over stock, i don't really know how to quantify that though. you basically don't get all bouncing and swaying that you do with the stock suspension. When i say "not so stiff" i'm referring to how jarring the ride gets with the new suspension. with the pro system the comfort level is still there, which is why it makes for a good daily driver suspension. You get a good looking drop with good ride quality.


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## Henni (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (salsanacho)*

awsome thanx!!


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## yosemitesamiam (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (BBMW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BBMW* »_I don't know if I buy this. The advantage of buying the whole kit is that Eibach had the opportunity of balancing the handling using the spring, shocks, and bars, all at the same time. They have the resources and expertice to do this, whereas the vast majority of car owner do not. The bars are pretty integral to the handling equation, so I think I'd want them dialed in correctly.

I'm in agreement. And at just a bit over 3 bills more....why would you want to go to Neuspeed and spend 300 on each bar?


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (yosemitesamiam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yosemitesamiam* »_
I'm in agreement. And at just a bit over 3 bills more....why would you want to go to Neuspeed and spend 300 on each bar?

My points:
1 - You can get the Neuspeed for closer to $200. Group buys and sales are common. Same goes for the AutoTech, which can often be had for under $200 shipped. You can save well over $100 by going with either of these two bars over the Eibach. There is no need for a new front sway, so don't worry about that. 
2 - The sway bar does not need to match with the suspension system the same way the springs and dampers need to match. The sway bar serves the purpose of stiffening up the rear. In most applications, stiffer will be better.
3 - Unless someone tells me otherwise, my research shows the Eibach bar is being non-adjustable. Both the Neuspeed and AutoTech are at least 3-way adjustable. This adjustability is the key benefit, you get three+ different stiffness settings to adjust it for your needs.
In the end, I honestly believe that you are not only saving money going with either of these two bars, but actually ending up with a better setup. I will always reccommend buying the Eibach prosystem together instead of mixing and matching brands, but sticking with Eibach for your sway bar offer no more benefits than buying Eibach brand tires "engineered and matched" for the prosystem.


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## yosemitesamiam (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (LeChefJosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LeChefJosh* »_
My points:
1 - You can get the Neuspeed for closer to $200. Group buys and sales are common. Same goes for the AutoTech, which can often be had for under $200 shipped. You can save well over $100 by going with either of these two bars over the Eibach. There is no need for a new front sway, so don't worry about that. 
2 - The sway bar does not need to match with the suspension system the same way the springs and dampers need to match. The sway bar serves the purpose of stiffening up the rear. In most applications, stiffer will be better.
3 - Unless someone tells me otherwise, my research shows the Eibach bar is being non-adjustable. Both the Neuspeed and AutoTech are at least 3-way adjustable. This adjustability is the key benefit, you get three+ different stiffness settings to adjust it for your needs.
In the end, I honestly believe that you are not only saving money going with either of these two bars, but actually ending up with a better setup. I will always reccommend buying the Eibach prosystem together instead of mixing and matching brands, but sticking with Eibach for your sway bar offer no more benefits than buying Eibach brand tires "engineered and matched" for the prosystem.

I do see the wisdom in this now. I did not know we did not need to replace the entire front bar. It was brought to my attention earlier that in fact, you can just change out the endlinks to make the stocker work with a dropped suspension to keep it from rubbing (if necessary at all)
Thanks
Sam


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (yosemitesamiam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yosemitesamiam* »_
I do see the wisdom in this now. I did not know we did not need to replace the entire front bar. It was brought to my attention earlier that in fact, you can just change out the endlinks to make the stocker work with a dropped suspension to keep it from rubbing (if necessary at all)


Sam,
The stock front sway is fine with the prosystem. No rubbing at all. It seems that after about 1.5-1.7" of drop you start to run into problems, but anything below that is fine. If you get the prosystem, you won't have to worry about the front sway at all


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## yosemitesamiam (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Pro system or Pro System Plus (jakdawgus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jakdawgus* »_Yeah, like I said two posts above - it depends on if you got the sport susp. or not... and of course what kind of deal you can score









I'm assuming since I drive a 2001 Golf GLS TDI that mine is not a sport suspension...


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## 93206 (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: Pro System Plus*

Well, long long time, no post from me around these parts.
Short reason, bought a 2003 TDI, and then decided I would sell it...Impulse buy... I still have it... so now it's time to upgrade things.
Remembered this site, and then with all the stuff in the suspension area re: HR, Nuespeed, Eibach and others, I decided to order an Eibach Pro-Plus system setup.
Should be here soon... and I'll likely post results and such, though I doubt I'll have pics.
Should work well with the only upgrade I've done so far... some 17 inch Kosei's w/225-45's on them.
Looking forward to the nice compromise of some good suspension stuff w/o lowering the car to be a PITA.


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## Vroom (Apr 24, 2002)

*Re: Pro System Plus (BuzzMC)*

Bump for a great thread


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## Imola Yellow GTi (Oct 27, 2000)

*Installed Eibach ProSystem today*

can someone repost the pic of the thick "washer" that some of you decided to remove near the top of the front suspension


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## MacDalund (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today (Imola Yellow GTi)*

Well I installed my ProSystem yesterday and I have to say I LOVE it. The first thing I noticed is that dive and squat are significantly reduced. The car doesn't roll like the stock setup did either. It's certainly not overly harsh, you just feel the road a little better. This truely is the perfect system for anyone that has a daily driver and wants better looks and handling without slamming ther car or having to deal with an overly harsh ride. 
I have to thank this thread for helping me in my decision. A







to you all!


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## clark w. griswold (Feb 13, 2004)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today (MacDalund)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MacDalund* »_Well I installed my ProSystem yesterday and I have to say I LOVE it. The first thing I noticed is that dive and squat are significantly reduced. The car doesn't roll like the stock setup did either. It's certainly not overly harsh, you just feel the road a little better. This truely is the perfect system for anyone that has a daily driver and wants better looks and handling without slamming ther car or having to deal with an overly harsh ride. 
I have to thank this thread for helping me in my decision. A







to you all!
i want this system so bad. thanx for commenting on the dive and squat issue...thats really important to me. now i want it even more! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Chubbs GTI (Dec 13, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today (clark w. griswold)*

been looking at suspensions, this is the most informative thread on vortex. One question tho...how reliable is the pro kit setup, as far as camber and all that, i dont want things going wrong with my car in a year, and i like to keep my tires as long as possible. anyone had their system for a long time with no problems??? give me this one last reason to get this set up for my 2004 1.8t gti!!!!


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today (Chubbs GTI)*

No tire issues here. 1 and 1/2 years, about 30,000 miles. Car rides MUCH better. Although my car did lower 2", not the typical 1 1/4" to 1 1/2".


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## Chubbs GTI (Dec 13, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today (keycom)*

do you have any camber adjustments? or is everything else stock besides the eibach setup?


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## keycom (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today (Chubbs GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chubbs GTI* »_do you have any camber adjustments? or is everything else stock besides the eibach setup?

No, pretty much stock. (Pro Kit Plus) Want to install the SPC camber plates, but several fellows are having noise issues with them. Still looking for an inexpensive way to get negative camber for autocrossing.


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## Kerosene Hat (Oct 17, 2001)

*Lovin' it*

Add me to the list of those that love this mod. This is what the sport suspension should have been in the first place. Much better than the stock sport suspension, now I just need a rear sway bar...I'm starting to like a car that can handle! 
I think w/ a rear bar the handling on this car may meet/exceed the handling on my beloved, departed, 1991 Dodege Stealth ES, especially by limiting the understeer. 
The ride w/ the PS is slightly stiffer, noise transmits a little better, but the car no longer bounces up & down over small bumps like those cars on hydraulics in the early 90s hip hop videos!


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## VT1.8T (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Lovin' it (Kerosene Hat)*

FYI, just ordered from shox.com and the VWvortex member price is now $559.


























_Modified by VT1.8T at 5:21 PM 4-6-2005_


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## turbizznatch (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: Pro System Plus (Vroom)*

Bump for a very great thread. I know I'm bringing this up from the dead but this kit is THE BEST for stock like comfort but with added performance. I've been running this kit now for 6 mo. with a 28mm NS sway bar set at the center hole on the bar. I have the NS upper strut bar and NS lower tie bar for the chassis. All is fine and dandy. I plan on adding the LCA bushing from ECS tuning that have been sitting in my bedroom for the past 6mo. Does anyone else have this set up? How would adding a NS 25mm front sway effect the equation when I set the rear sway bar at it firmest setting? Anyone out there have the NS front sway bar?


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## alaskagreenjetta (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Pro System Plus (turbizznatch)*

I am running the prokit too and I LOVE it. Except my suspension like to make sounds everytime I go over bumps like it doesn't want to settle. Oh well I guess I will try and retighen over everyrthing tonight. I have the ABD front and rear sways also. I may get the VF engineered front sway endlinks because the others I believe are worn. Wish me luck


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## RPMjchris (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Pro System Plus (turbizznatch)*

I have this suspension (Eibach springs/struts/shocks) with Neuspeed 25mm front and 28mm rear bars, along with NS upper and lower strut tie bars. I now have a little over 67k on my car and I still love this setup. No problems with squeaking. Overall, extremely satisfied.


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## alaskagreenjetta (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Pro System Plus (RPMjchris)*

the rake looks minimal compared to mine


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## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: Pro System Plus (alaskagreenjetta)*

Here is my cars after 30k+ miles on my Eibach Pro System with numerous trackdays & spirited twisty 'cruises'. I have almost wornout a set of Michelin Pilot Sports with this suspension on the car.
2 different instructors have commented that my car is very well balanced.
Pictures from a trackday on 5/15/2005
















Trackday 3/5/2005 (Portland Intl Raceway)








Current setup:
Eibach ProSystem (removed)
VWMS upper strut bushings (removed)
Audi S3 upper strut stressbar
Autotech lower front stressbar
Neuspeed 25mm rear swaybar on full stiff
*Next steps:*
Bilstein PSS9 for Audi TT non-quattro (installed)
Ground Control Camber Plates (intalled)
Audi TT lower control arms (installed)
Audi TT spindles with ball joints (installed)
Audi TT front swaybar (installed)
Peloquin LSD (purchased)
EDIT (7/2/2005): I have removed the Eibach Pro System due to the number trackdays I will/have attend(ed). I have found that I have out grown this suspension. It works well and behaves quite neutral for the track. The Eibachs were under-sprung and under-dampened for the track. Loved the daily drive on them, though.


_Modified by eggroller at 7:35 AM 7-3-2005_


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## LoneRanger! (Jul 23, 2005)

*Re: Pro System Plus*

Any other pics of this suspension on your cars?
Seems to me everyone that has this system is realy happy with how it performs.

L.R. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KCMTNBIKER (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: Pro System Plus (LoneRanger!)*

Had this for about a month. Handling and ride quality is great (until you hit a bump). As discussed in another thread, I am concerned about the frequency and harshness of these springs bottoming out. Looks good though.


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## henrique (Sep 21, 2005)

*Pro Kit with OEM Gti Dampers*

Hi,
I would like to know what would be the aprox. lifetime (in miles) of the oem dampers when using them with Eibach Pro-Kit lowering springs.
Thanks.


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Pro Kit with OEM Gti Dampers (henrique)*

bump


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: Pro Kit with OEM Gti Dampers (henrique)*


_Quote, originally posted by *henrique* »_Hi,
I would like to know what would be the aprox. lifetime (in miles) of the oem dampers when using them with Eibach Pro-Kit lowering springs.
Thanks.

The Eibach pro kit springs are actually softer than OEM sport springs. You're biggest problem is underdamped strut/shocks to begin with.


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## VRSIXXER (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Pro Kit with OEM Gti Dampers (traffic)*

once again i still cant make up my mind. from the past i had read the prokit is stiffer then oem sport. but now its softer. wtf, which one is it?


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## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Pro Kit with OEM Gti Dampers (VRSIXXER)*

both will be stiffer than stock if thats all you care about.


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Pro Kit with OEM Gti Dampers (7thGear)*

any noise from suspension with this kit?


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## VB1 (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: Pro Kit with OEM Gti Dampers (Fantomasz)*

This is a very interesting (and exhausting) thread.
I read the whole thing and now I'm confused.
I've got an '04 Jetta with the factory sport suspension. My plan was to buy a set of Koni FSD dampers and use the stock springs.
Now I've read the thread, and the ProSport system is actually cheaper (not by a significant amount).
I have no interest in lowering my car. And from this thread I gather that the ProSport springs are softer than the factory sports. So I'm guessing that the stock sport springs and FDS's would yield a slightly stiffer setup.
So, anybody know how stock sport springs & FSD's would compare to the ProSport system ?


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## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Pro Kit with OEM Gti Dampers (VB1)*

the eibach springs are softer yes, but they LOWER your vehicle to the point of buffer engagement, making them no longer soft.
comfort comes from shock travel
i have 250 lb spring in the back of my car, but its also raised such that i have 1.5 inches of free shock travel before buffer engagement (which is even more than stock) so its near stock comfort except that i get a little pitching now and then.
so your stock springs with FSD's will still be better than the eibach units.
its all about shock travel! not springs


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## pedwards (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I have a question would this set up work for a 98 golf 3. new to the vw world thanks.


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## va20th (Oct 21, 2007)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (pedwards)*

I have a 20th AE. Would this kit actually lower my car at all from the stock stance. I am looking for just like .5 inch lower bc i am going to run 8 and 17.5 spacers. So will it lower or raise my car?


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## LittleRob (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (va20th)*

Did the quote from shox.com and this is what I got the Eibach ProSystem $599.00 & Eibach ProSystem+.$899.00 thats with the discount. If you purchase the pro system in parts pro kit than the dampers on their site you save 4 bucks, and if you buy straight no discount $629.00. Biggest savings is with the Prosystem+ $959 so thats a savings of 60. But overall still a good place to buy from as long as theere in stock. Way more expensive any where else. 

Oh and I'm new but did read all the pages. And have used this site the last couple years for advice. So thanks to all for posting good info.


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## quickbansheeman (Feb 7, 2007)

i have a question i used the eibach lowering spring on my mk4 and bilstein struts and my car raised higher than when i had my stock springs what could be the affects of that?


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## LoneRanger! (Jul 23, 2005)

I got the eibach cup kit used on here shortly after I replied in this thread, we have put 50K miles on the kit and although it is tinme for some new shocks and struts we are VERY happy with the ride.
just a heads up, we would buy this kit again.
L.R.


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## LoneRanger! (Jul 23, 2005)

*Re: (LoneRanger!)*

Just wanted to throw a picture up here! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GT Eye (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: (LoneRanger!)*

Very happy with the ride quality. No more bouncing and rolling.


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## Honda4VW (Oct 20, 2004)

Just read all 14 pages! Im sold


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## pharph (Apr 23, 2002)

*Re: (Honda4VW)*

I've got the same ProSystem installed on my 2000 GTI. Loving it!!










_Modified by pharph at 4:10 PM 5-19-2008_


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## berlindx (May 4, 2008)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

I am considering putting the Pro-system and some 18x8 wheels on my currently stock 1.8T. What would the tire gap be like there and would there be any problems associated with it (Rubbing etc.)
Any pics would be appreciated, Thanks!


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## GT Eye (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (berlindx)*

Running on 18's (Flik Wasps)
Expect 2 finger gap all around, with a possibility of reverse rake (bigger gap in front than back)
No issues with rubbing, bottoming out (in NYC), looks great!


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## pobrien88 (Mar 24, 2008)

how do you get the vortex discount on shox.com?


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## Honda4VW (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (pobrien88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pobrien88* »_how do you get the vortex discount on shox.com?

call them up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GT Eye (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: (Honda4VW)*

Aww crap...didnt know such a discount existed.
I had a great experience with them, nonetheless - great customer service (despite the sh1tty website







)


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## Honda4VW (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (GT Eye)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT Eye* »_Aww crap...didnt know such a discount existed.
I had a great experience with them, nonetheless - great customer service (despite the sh1tty website







)

When I got mine they offered it to me over the phone, however the online code did not work.
I got it way cheaper than that though


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## xiaoyezai (Nov 9, 2008)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today (Imola Yellow GTi)*

This is a wonderful write up and thanks so much for the unbiased review, I think you point me to the right suspension for my own. Going to search for the best deal now! 
Great thanks for others pictures too.


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## hyeedo818 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (catalytic)*

how will this effect a mv5 09 passat cc


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## caymandiver75 (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (hyeedo818)*

Anyone have a picture of MKIV Jetta on factory 17" wheels before/after with the Prosystem installed and settled? I just ordered this kit and I'm kinda curious to see how it will look. I may just end up taking my own before/after shots.


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## MI_canuck (Dec 21, 1999)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (caymandiver75)*

They aren't quite the same angle (actually makes the "before" gap/ride height look less high), so it's not the greatest of comparisons but it's all I had... 
Here's a Before shot...








Here's an After shot... dropped approx 10mm (3/8") front and 22mm (7/8") rear (from stock sport suspension) right after the install... it's a little early (only like a month) to gauge the settling... 








I'm extremely happy with this setup... ride quality, body control and overall car balance are MUCH improved over stock... perfect for daily driver and works well at autocrosses as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Hope that helps...



_Modified by MI_canuck at 9:51 AM 8-13-2009_


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## caymandiver75 (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (MI_canuck)*

Looks good and thanks for posting up the pics MI_canuck.


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## vdubN228 (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: Installed Eibach ProSystem today - my review (caymandiver75)*

are the sway bars adjustable?


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## jreyesvr6 (Nov 11, 2009)

*Installed the pro-dampers with the vw/eibach lowering springs- disaster!*

Need help... two days ago I installed new pro-damper struts with the VW/Driver Gear lowering springs. I wanted to be safe for Chicago thus I bought the Driver Gear springs since these are designed with the vw specs by eibach and these are supposed to provide an inch lowering instead of the 1.2 on the pro-kits. After the installation the car is actually sitting higher than stock on the front and lower on the back. The installer is a profesional thus I can't figure out why the lowering springs make the car be higher! 

Any ideas? I drive a 2000 Jetta GLX VR6- and now have a huge gap on the front. I am thinking about returning the vw driver gear lowering springs and then oder the pro-kits to see if this resolves the problem... or trying the vw/eibach driver gear spring with the stock struts. Any suggestions please?


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## quality_sound (May 20, 2002)

jreyesvr6 said:


> Need help... two days ago I installed new pro-damper struts with the VW/Driver Gear lowering springs. I wanted to be safe for Chicago thus I bought the Driver Gear springs since these are designed with the vw specs by eibach and these are supposed to provide an inch lowering instead of the 1.2 on the pro-kits. After the installation the car is actually sitting higher than stock on the front and lower on the back. The installer is a profesional thus I can't figure out why the lowering springs make the car be higher!
> 
> Any ideas? I drive a 2000 Jetta GLX VR6- and now have a huge gap on the front. I am thinking about returning the vw driver gear lowering springs and then oder the pro-kits to see if this resolves the problem... or trying the vw/eibach driver gear spring with the stock struts. Any suggestions please?


It's not the struts. It has to be install related. I wonder if he mistakenly reinstalled the OEM springs or doubled up on the upper strut bearing.


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## arashb (May 21, 2011)

Sorry to bump an old thread, but anyone here move from the eibach prosystem to budget coilovers like ultimos for example?

I love the handling of the eibachs but the drop is weak, my car came with this system installed and I don't know if I should change to ultimos or not. I don't track my car, so handling isn't too important, but I don't want it to feel like I'm driving a GM.


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## Nismo2121 (Jan 8, 2012)

*Love Eibach Springs*

I have them and they give my car a nice even drop. I found the best price for all Eibach kits and more at http://www.nismo.gknv.com/shop/index.php?k=eibach+&c=7840 :screwy:


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