# Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (college tuition)



## VW_Enthu1 (Oct 23, 2004)

I know this isn't the Routan Forum - humor me...
(Buy a VW Routan, Get $1500 Towards Your Child's College Tuition
Upromise members can get $1,500 in college savings when they pre-order a Routan by August 31, 2008 and take delivery by November 30, 2008. )
Just a thought for the brave: Isn't pre-ordering a first year VW/Chrysler with lukewarm ratings (see Chrysler van ratings) that we haven't touched yet a somewhat brave move? Am I the only one scratching my head on this one? Why would I pre-order it? This isn't some limited production Shelby Mustang GT. It's a family van from a company with a history of quality issues. 
I'm all for swallowing the Kool-Aid and I get the incentive thing, but please...












_Modified by VW_Enthu1 at 1:43 PM 5-8-2008_


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## Westyrcp (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (VW_Enthu1)*

Kinda sounds like they know the routan is gonna tank before it even hits the showroom floor.


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## AzBarber (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (Westyrcp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Westyrcp* »_Kinda sounds like they know the routan is gonna tank before it even hits the showroom floor.

Yeah, I don't think that's a big secret. The only unknown is why they're even doing it.








Az


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (AzBarber)*

As I have written before, as vans go, the Chrysler/Dodge van isn't that bad. It is nothing like my EV, but I spent quite some time behind the wheel of one, and feel one could do a lot worse.
What I want to know is why anyone who wants this van would go for the VW version and forego the lifetime power train warranty that Chrysler offers.








The pics that came with the e-mail mentioned above show VW has made some nice cosmetic improvements, but if I wanted that van (I don't) they would have to do a HELL of a lot more than spruce it up a bit to make me pay the same for a much worse warranty. Maybe if they gave me a VW engine, say a TDI, I'd consider giving up that lifetime warranty.


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## VW_Enthu1 (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (aebad)*

I posted on this a couple of months ago. The warranties have to be the same or better (not worse) - I hadn't read much on the Routan warranty yet. How can we - or anyone - take the vehicle seriously if the warranty is noticeably weaker than the Chrysler version?
Who thinks up this s***? I want to take VWoA seriously, but they continue to stumble all over themselves with these stupid ideas:
- customer retention plan instead of good warranties and customer focus
- Shorter term warranty for the same Chrysler vehicle
- The education sales incentive? That's smoke and mirrors and everyone knows it. Stop treating VW owners and potential buyers like idiots. Who is the head of their US marketing group? Whomever you are, go back to the university where you got your degree and demand a refund...















Damn....



_Modified by VW_Enthu1 at 10:54 AM 5-9-2008_


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## roadtripper (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (VW_Enthu1)*

it's even more smoke and mirrors than it seems. that upromise thing is overinflated hype. it is not a dollar for dollar "incentive" as it is being portrayed. and besides, at this rate, what's 1500 going to get your kids in college 10-15 years from now - half a semester hour? a year's worth of books?! wow - that's a heavy incentive for buyinga chrysler without the warranty!! 
i don't mind the move in general, and the vehicle itself doesn't look bad compared to the other stuff on the market. but if the reason they did this instead of a vw platform was lower cost, and if they want to continue to tout it as fairly or competitively priced, and they want us to ride out the mopar quality just for a badge, they need to at least get that thing well under 25K to start. and they should have left that 4.0 liter on the heap. it's a pig, and it has no place in a vw! lineup. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Dieselkraftstoff (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (VW_Enthu1)*

This Routan thing with VWOA reminds me of Pickets Charge.
Although every indication is impending disaster, they charge on any way.
I guess thats kind of admirable.


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (Dieselkraftstoff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dieselkraftstoff* »_
I guess thats kind of admirable.
































I like that concept! Glad to see I am not the only one who is confused by this. My experience with the Chrysler version of this van was that it is very gas hungry. Just the thing for the current market. A rebadged Chrysler, that is a gas hog, and has a worse warranty than the Chrysler product. I'd like to meet the folks at VW who think this is a goo idea.


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## roadtripper (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (aebad)*

although i will say this: very similar sentiment was the prevailing wisdon when porsche announced the cayenne. too late in the suv craze, not enough individuality or exclusivity, a misguided watering down of the marque's tradition, principles, emotional connection, and brand. heck, what do we conventional wizards know. it's been a hit from day one, doing exactly for porsche what they set out to do: retain their ranking as most profitable car maker, bridge the excitement gap between lengthy model introductions, and further establishing its independence, aremarkable accomplishment for such a small carmaker.
of course, porsche's gamble was considerably tempered by the fact that they had a benevolent corporate sponsor to pick up the development, r&d, and even some tooling/manufacturing. hmmmmm. the t-reg was not nearly the relative success for vw that the cayenne was/is for porsche, so maybe they're trying to play catch up and get the better of chyrsler on this one. as if that's a tough hand of poker to play. of course, porsche was pulling from a better bin than vw is in this case (t-reg platform had the goods, caravan, we'll see), but not a completely foreign thought.
but if you really want to look at one to suggest the success of the other, i still don't know why vw didn't want to take the t-reg platform as a starting point, a la honda mdx/odyssey, for its minivan. the odyssey has been a winner from day 1 (and my mom's mdx is one fine vehicle) and it's not like they're giving those away.


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## Der Meister (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (roadtripper)*

I think it will sell a reasonable # of units, but cleary not break any records. 
Isn't that all VW is looking for here?
As soon as the Chrysler hit the showroom, I went and looked at it because I knew the Routan was coming and wanted to get an idea of its dimensions in person.
I guess that's why I just paid dearly for an '03 EV.
Not sure what the Routan brings new to the party, but VW loyalists will buy a few of them....
My suggestion would also be to pop a TDI in there asap.


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (Westyrcp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Westyrcp* »_Kinda sounds like they know the routan is gonna tank before it even hits the showroom floor.

exactly what is going to happen!


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## AzBarber (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (Der Meister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Der Meister* »_I think it will sell a reasonable # of units, but cleary not break any records. 
Isn't that all VW is looking for here?

Isn't that what they already had? T4 sales were going up each year from 2001 to 2003 when it was shelved. I'll bet the Routan won't sell many more units, if any. But, if VWoA had any foresight, those TDI vans that they already could have been selling, would be selling.

_Quote »_My suggestion would also be to pop a TDI in there asap.

That would make a difference.
Az


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## Seano (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (Der Meister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Der Meister* »_My suggestion would also be to pop a TDI in there asap.

Chrysler already do......have a squiz at the Euro market T&C's.


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## Dieselkraftstoff (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (roadtripper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *roadtripper* »_although i will say this: very similar sentiment was the prevailing wisdon when porsche announced the cayenne. too late in the suv craze, not enough individuality or exclusivity, a misguided watering down of the marque's tradition, principles, emotional connection, and brand. heck, what do we conventional wizards know. it's been a hit from day one, doing exactly for porsche what they set out to do: retain their ranking as most profitable car maker, bridge the excitement gap between lengthy model introductions, and further establishing its independence, aremarkable accomplishment for such a small carmaker.
of course, porsche's gamble was considerably tempered by the fact that they had a benevolent corporate sponsor to pick up the development, r&d, and even some tooling/manufacturing. hmmmmm. the t-reg was not nearly the relative success for vw that the cayenne was/is for porsche, so maybe they're trying to play catch up and get the better of chyrsler on this one. as if that's a tough hand of poker to play. of course, porsche was pulling from a better bin than vw is in this case (t-reg platform had the goods, caravan, we'll see), but not a completely foreign thought.
but if you really want to look at one to suggest the success of the other, i still don't know why vw didn't want to take the t-reg platform as a starting point, a la honda mdx/odyssey, for its minivan. the odyssey has been a winner from day 1 (and my mom's mdx is one fine vehicle) and it's not like they're giving those away.

The difference being here, the Ceyanne is a Porsche.
The Routan is a Chrysler, The VW content is just glued on.
There will never be a VW TDi in this thing, its NOT a VW. It would require a MAJOR redesign effort to incorporate a VW drive line in a Chrysler product.
I bet sales for this thing are going to hit a new low in the auto industry. Any true VW enthusiast wouldn't be caught dead in this Chrysler POS.


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (Dieselkraftstoff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dieselkraftstoff* »_
I bet sales for this thing are going to hit a new low in the auto industry. Any true VW enthusiast wouldn't be caught dead in this Chrysler POS.

While I agree that sales will be poor, I think it will have more to do with what VW has taken AWAY from the equation than anything else. Lots of Chrysler minivans are on the road, so there is a market for the van. If VW could polish this turd, make it look a bit nicer (I think they have) make it ride a bit better (they say they have) and make other improvements while keeping all the other things you'd get with a Chrysler version the same, people would buy it. Unfortunately, they are going to offer it without the stow and go seats and with a much worse warranty. 
You are right, a true VW fan wouldn't buy this, but the seating and warranty issues make it likely a shopper without brand loyalty won't either.


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (Seano)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Seano* »_
Chrysler already do......have a squiz at the Euro market T&C's.

But that isn't a VW diesel, or even a Mercedes diesel. Not sure, but I believe it is Italian??


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## roadtripper (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (aebad)*

chrysler diesels are pitiful. so there is no solace in that. the much-hyped jeep liberty diesel that hit our market 2 years or so ago was supposed to ride the wave of diesel sentiment . . . and delivered roughly 16 mpg on average to complement its harshness and lack of refinement. i don't know which on eis in the routan, but i know firsthand that a lot of chrysler's diesel r&d over the last decade or so was in conjunction with subcontractors whose experience was more in the caterpillar/detroit diesel mode. you would have thought that this would have been the one area where a joint partnership with merceded would have come in handy. but you would have thought wrong, apparantly. 
and yes, i know the cayenne is a porsche, but porsche was not the lead on the design of that vehicle. vw was. so relying on a "downmarket" development partner doesn't have to be a fool's run. you just have to pick your bedfellows a little more carefully. 
forget any big $$ investment for vw to try to bring more diesels across the model line. americans still don't get it, our diesel distribution chain can't even produce the low sulfer fuel the best engines and performance requires, and there are generally states where vw can't even sell their diesels over the years (CA, NY, etc). another example of the tremendous failure of the us car industry as well as government interveners to meet the real needs of the marketplace and times, and a glaring example of how the colossally ruinous "hybrid" charade has distracted the industry from true advances and improvements in consumption and driving and manufacturing habits. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (aebad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aebad* »_But that isn't a VW diesel, or even a Mercedes diesel. Not sure, but I believe it is Italian?? 

The diesel in the Liberty CRD was a turd for sure, produced by the Italian firm VM Motori. However the 2.0 passenger small-car diesels are VW 2.0 TDIs.
From http://www.autoobserver.com/20....html:

_Quote »_Volkswagen AG, which supplies four-cylinder diesels for Dodge Nitro and Caliber models in Europe. *Chrysler will be installing VW diesels in VW-badged variants of Chrysler’s new-generation minivans next year*.








Wonder if that last part is still true.


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## Dieselkraftstoff (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (roadtripper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *roadtripper* »_ 
and yes, i know the cayenne is a porsche, but porsche was not the lead on the design of that vehicle. vw was. so relying on a "downmarket" development partner doesn't have to be a fool's run. you just have to pick your bedfellows a little more carefully. 


A Porsche with VW influence is not the same as a Chrysler with a VW logo glued to the outside. To imply that the Routan will succeed because the Cayenne succeded is not valid. Its comparing apples to bumper jacks.
OBTW Porsche and VW have been working together closely and sharing technology for decades. The Cayenne colaberation is in no way a first between these companies.


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## AzBarber (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (gti_matt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gti_matt* »_

From http://www.autoobserver.com/20....html:







Wonder if that last part is still true.

Makes sense. Up until now, European Chrysler minivans had diesels made by Mercedes. Mercedes is no longer playing with Chrysler, so VW is filling the void.
Az


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (AzBarber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AzBarber* »_Makes sense. Up until now, European Chrysler minivans had diesels made by Mercedes. Mercedes is no longer playing with Chrysler, so VW is filling the void.

IIRC this was happening (VW supplying diesel engines to Chrysler) even before the Daimler-Chrysler breakup. I suspect it was in exchange as a partnership for Chrysler supplying VW with a minivan.
MB diesels IIRC are all relatively larger, suitable for cars like the E-class, S-class, SUVs, etc. Not even sure that MB has a small diesel for a small car (like 2.0L or smaller), do they? If that's the case, maybe that's why Chrysler looked to VW to supply diesels for the smaller cars even before the D-C breakup.


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## Seano (Jan 2, 2003)

Never said the TDi that Chrysler offered in the Euro T&C was any good....it is widely acknowledged as an expensive turd here in Oz in our version of the Jeep Liberty.
M-B do make small diesels. The Golf sized B Class has a 2.0L TDi (80kW/250Nm)


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## roadtripper (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (Dieselkraftstoff)*

you're putting words in my mouth. i never implied that the routan would succeed because the cayenne succeeded. to the contrary, i do not see daylight for the routan. let's put it this way, with 20 vws in the past 15 years and 3 kids in the last 6, in my age and demographic, etc, if "I" am not the least bit interested, vw has missed its mark by a country mile. i'd rather sink 10K into my T3!! 
what i lightheartedly suggested was that perhaps it (underwriting of the cayenne) assisted in the rationale and business case for routan. for all of vw's investment in t-reg, porsche got way more bang out of that platform. and yes, i am aware of stuttgart's and wolfsburg's long history of "collaboration." (although the t-reg cayenne example was a bit "more," and in fact, a very unique case.) at any rate, routan is NOT an analagous situation. 
i was not aware that there was talk of a 2 litre vw diesel in these things. if it happens here and it's not grossly overpriced (and if it's the goods; 38mpg with good power??!!), that alone would change the ballgame. but i would have to see it to believe it. and you know, if they're waiting to "see how it goes," there won't BE any product developments for this turd. i say it's DOA.


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## Dieselkraftstoff (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (roadtripper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *roadtripper* »_what i lightheartedly suggested was that perhaps it (underwriting of the cayenne) assisted in the rationale and business case for routan.

I have a hard time believing the Cayenne program played any role in this debacle.
I am at a real loss for the logic to this marrage made in hell. I'm a loyal VW customer too. I have had VW busses for many years, and there is no way in heck I'd ever own a Routan. I have 3 kids and like the convieniance and roominess of the Eurovan. Heck when we travel, the kids prefer the Eurovan too as they have more room to themselves. 

I suspect that VW of America looked at the market leader in the MINIvan market and figured what the heck, people are stupid. Lets glue a VW logo on one of those things and maybe we'll get a piece that action. Screw our loyal customers, they'll get over it. Chrysler, who is drowning in their own juices, latched on to VW like a tick on a **** hound for any cash they could could suck out of VW.
When it comes time for a new van, I'll look to the desert South West. Find myself a Eurovan with good tin. Pull the motor and trans out of 'Ol Blue'. Send the "new" van to the body shop for a fresh coat of paint, maybe some tastefull after market wheels, and I'm back in business. I'd rather get something new, but VW has left me no choice.
Sure thats a big pain, but I want a VW thats wholely designed by VAG/Porsche, and built by VAG, with VAG parts. 


_Modified by Dieselkraftstoff at 7:07 AM 5-15-2008_


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## Dieselkraftstoff (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: Routan prices released as well as sales incentive (VW_Enthu1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_Enthu1* »_
(Buy a VW Routan, Get $1500 Towards Your Child's College Tuition


Hey VW of America!
If you tie pork chops to the rear view mirrors, maybe the dogs will play with it!


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