# 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED



## jlam (Jan 6, 2004)

I'm not sure if anyone has had this problem, but I could not find anything after doing a search on this.
Took my 2002, 1.8T Jetta into the dealer because of a problem I have been having. When you start from a stand still, and press the gas, the car will start but will suddenly surge. Then it seems like the gears change and the car accelerates smoothly again. This does not happen every time. 
The dealer took the codes, and is getting readings that they are unable to interpret. They are now looking to VWOC/VWOA or whoever, to get help on this issue. The tech took it for a ride and knows there is something not right, but cannot tell what it is.
I have had coil packs replaced already with the latest versions. There is only 50,000 km on it. 
Has anyone had a "surging" issue such as this?


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## The Mailman (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

I have something, but not quite like what you have. From a start, in 1st gear, accelerating slowly. Right around 2400, the RPM's would drop, it was definetely noticeable b/c the car would slow down, then instantly surge forward when the RPM's increased. It happened real quick...1-2 secs. 
Also, sometimes when at a stop and idling, my RPM's would drop 100-200 for a sec or 2, then go back to 700. The surging from a stop seems to be better since I've REVO'd, but the idling is more erratic. I can actually feel the RPM variances while idling and I can see it in the tach. I only have 7500 miles, but it's done it since around 1000...maybe sooner. I thought it was all normal. Oh, and REVO'd at 5k.


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## joey50 (Sep 27, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (The Mailman)*

Same here with my 2004 Jetta 1.8T. Not sure what the deal is.....


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## joey50 (Sep 27, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (joey50)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joey50* »_Same here with my 2004 Jetta 1.8T. Not sure what the deal is.....

2003 not 04. Sorry


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## hghpsigti (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

i have had the exact....and i mean the exact(!!!!!!) same thing happening for some time now on my '02...i have changed spark plugs, coilpacks, maf..dv valve..checked all hose for vacuum leaks....and it still does it.......im so happy to hear other people have the same issue......hopefully this can be fixed soon..


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## ben99 (Jun 16, 2003)

Mine does the same thing, it is very annoying!


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jlam* »_I'm not sure if anyone has had this problem, but I could not find anything after doing a search on this.
Took my 2002, 1.8T Jetta into the dealer because of a problem I have been having. When you start from a stand still, and press the gas, the car will start but will suddenly surge. Then it seems like the gears change and the car accelerates smoothly again. This does not happen every time. 
The dealer took the codes, and is getting readings that they are unable to interpret. They are now looking to VWOC/VWOA or whoever, to get help on this issue. The tech took it for a ride and knows there is something not right, but cannot tell what it is.
I have had coil packs replaced already with the latest versions. There is only 50,000 km on it. 
Has anyone had a "surging" issue such as this?


i have this same exact problem, either in chiped mode, stock mode, or on a completly stock ecu.
i have a 2001 jetta WE (AWW)


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## GoFastChickenwing (Jun 26, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

have they tried adapting the throttle body recently?? also, is the throttle body dirty??


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (GoFastChickenwing)*

throttle body alignment does not cure this problem.....not to mention this problem is extremly intermitant...one day it will do it everytime, the next it will do it once in a blue moon....


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## The Mailman (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

Yeah, it's not an all the time thing for me either, but it's annoying just the same.


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (The Mailman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Mailman* »_Yeah, it's not an all the time thing for me either, but it's annoying just the same.

it is EXTREMLY ANNOYING!


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

Hey guys lets keep this tread live.
I have the exact same thing happening on my 2002 1.8 Turbo and it is killing me. Today a new problem arised. Now when running any speed or gears. my car runs and then suddently gets on a kind of neutral mode even if i press on the gas the rpm stays the same without going up, the car speed still keeps on decreasing and the only way i can drive again is by releasing the gas pedal and then press again and then the car goes. It does it at any speed, it even did it on the higway going 90 miles and hour so i am going nuts with this issue. By the way i bought it to the dealer and they have no clue what does this. Please soemone help us


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

Gotta love drive-by-wire!


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (JettaRed)*

People with this problem, it would help if you have a Tip or Manual.
If they are Tips, there ya go.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Raman Gain)*

one thing I've noticed is that most people that complain of surges either have AWW or AWP engine codes......
Never experienced surging with my APH (AWD equivalent).


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (gt2437)*

Bump


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## JeffreyWiffen (Jan 2, 2004)

Same problem here with my 2001 1.8T Golf GLS. 
My service dept. tells me that it may have something to do with the wiring harness which VW has just agreed to replace free of charge.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (JeffreyWiffen)*

Did the wiring harness resolved the problem


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: (JeffreyWiffen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JeffreyWiffen* »_Same problem here with my 2001 1.8T Golf GLS. 
My service dept. tells me that it may have something to do with the wiring harness which VW has just agreed to replace free of charge. 


What do you mean? As a defective part for all VWs in a certain VIN range..or just for you?
I get the same stupid jerk/surge at low rpm almost daily. Everytime, I glance at my boost gauge (cos when I surge I think boost) and I'm always in vacuum.
01 WE (AWW)


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (3wheelinWolf)*

Just got out of the dealer and they told me to install grounding kits so i will make 1 up myself and try this to see if that can resolve that stupid problem, i will keep you posted guys, let me know if you find any other aternatives


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## TexMexGTI (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

Sounds like a problem in the gas pedal's potentiometer or the wiring transmitting the signal for pedal position. Jaguars (where I work) do the same during cruise control operation when the throttle pedal potentiometer is fouled up. A change in voltage reads as a changing pedal position, whether the pedal moves or not. Gotta love drive by wire, just a few more electrical components that can fail.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (TexMexGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexMexGTI* »_Sounds like a problem in the gas pedal's potentiometer or the wiring transmitting the signal for pedal position. Jaguars (where I work) do the same during cruise control operation when the throttle pedal potentiometer is fouled up. A change in voltage reads as a changing pedal position, whether the pedal moves or not. Gotta love drive by wire, just a few more electrical components that can fail.

that should trigger an 'EPC' light on the DBW 1.8t's.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (gt2437)*

Guys, there is no lights or engine faults so far, just stupid speed loss for no reasons


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

i just think its a fault in the ecu programming.......stock or chipped.....considering most if not all aftermarket chips are originally based on the stock programming....


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## v-dub-u (Jul 28, 2003)

I'm having the same problem on my 2003 GTI 1.8T 20,000km. Happens every few days and is vary noticable and annoying.


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## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
that should trigger an 'EPC' light on the DBW 1.8t's. 

what all will trigger this do you know i've seen it a time or 2


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## Nessal (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

13k, Glad I don't have this problem.


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## Grogthefrog (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: (ben99)*

and did you try a new N75 valve? maybe the stock N75 valve is faulty.


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Grogthefrog)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grogthefrog* »_and did you try a new N75 valve? maybe the stock N75 valve is faulty.

this problem occurs before the car is even in boost.....we are talking from a dead stop with MINIMAL throttle


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*

if i watch my vac/boost gauge this is what happens....i will start to accelerate lightly and the vac gauge will come up to about 10inHG and then it will snap up to 0 and the car will lung and then snap back down to 10 and behave like normal.
whats even weider is that it does it so violently...you can NOT recreate this feeling by jerking around w/ the gas pedal..


_Modified by mwwhonda at 7:30 PM 1-7-2004_


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*

Guys, we need to find a solution for this because it seems that there is a couple of guys here with that same problem so lets keep this tread alive


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stephbbbb* »_Guys, we need to find a solution for this because it seems that there is a couple of guys here with that same problem so lets keep this tread alive

yeah, for sure, because this is one of the most annoying things this querky a$% car does!


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*

I totally agree with you Mwwhonda


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (spoolin turbo s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spoolin turbo s* »_
what all will trigger this do you know i've seen it a time or 2


If any faults are detected with the electronic power control (DBW) system it will light. 
ex: essentially accelerator pedal/DBW throttle body/possibly an ECU issue.


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## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (gt2437)*

Is this surging the boost or are the RPMs actualy jumping all over? If it is just boost you need to get rid of the crappy stock N75. There are other versions available from VW/Audi that can fix this issue. If it is the RPMs then something else is the culprit.


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (einsig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *einsig* »_Is this surging the boost or are the RPMs actualy jumping all over? If it is just boost you need to get rid of the crappy stock N75. There are other versions available from VW/Audi that can fix this issue. If it is the RPMs then something else is the culprit.

ok, ill explain what happens exactly...again
DEAD STOP. 1st gear--> start to let the clutch out while feathering the throttle for a smooth take off --> car starts to move (STILL IN VAC) --> the car is accelerating with MINIAL throttle and all of a sudden there is a breif INCREASE in acceleration (MUCH MORE OF A BRIEF INCREASE COMPARED TO FLOORING IT!)
i mean its like you are using 1% throttle and slowly accelerating and then for a brief second you are jerked back and then back to normal...the car does NOT enter boost during this brief jerk either! if i watch my gauage it goes from say 10inHG of VAC and it shoots up to 0 and then right back to where it was....
you can NOT recreate this feeling by doing anything that i can think of...if you are using MINIMAL throttle and slowly accelerating and were to floor it, it does not have the same feel, so i cant imagine what it is...
maybe it has something to do w/ fuel trim or timing maps...but as i have said before, this happens with both STOCK ecu and chipped cars..


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_
ok, ill explain what happens exactly...again
DEAD STOP. 1st gear--> start to let the clutch out while feathering the throttle for a smooth take off --> car starts to move (STILL IN VAC) --> the car is accelerating with MINIAL throttle and all of a sudden there is a breif INCREASE in acceleration (MUCH MORE OF A BRIEF INCREASE COMPARED TO FLOORING IT!)
i mean its like you are using 1% throttle and slowly accelerating and then for a brief second you are jerked back and then back to normal...the car does NOT enter boost during this brief jerk either! if i watch my gauage it goes from say 10inHG of VAC and it shoots up to 0 and then right back to where it was....
you can NOT recreate this feeling by doing anything that i can think of...if you are using MINIMAL throttle and slowly accelerating and were to floor it, it does not have the same feel, so i cant imagine what it is...
maybe it has something to do w/ fuel trim or timing maps...but as i have said before, this happens with both STOCK ecu and chipped cars..

Yeah, I think is an accurate description of what my car does as well. Here are some things that I question:
1. Is it my chip? 
I never had this issues before being chipped. (V.11 was my first and only chip) and have been chipped for 20K+ miles. 
2. If it is my chip, then why am I only noticing this, about 5K ago.
3. I do notice some activity on my boost gauge when it happens, although, I never catch it right when it happens, to see what the peak number is on the gauge...I always see it falling back to 10 in hg vac (my normal in hg while slow accel or cruising). This makes me think that it is N75/throttle related. 
4. I have also (about the same time) noticed I can't hold more than 12 psi under load in any gear. Is it possible these issues (for me at least) are related?


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

in my case it is NOT related to the CHIP...i have apr v2 ecms, the same problem in 93 octane, stock mode, OR if i swap in my completly stock spare ecu!
again, i do NOT think its n75 related because the car is NOT yet in boost.....althuogh maybe the n75 is trying to get the car to make boost via the n75, yet the JERK is way to quick to feel like turbo spool....


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

Guys,
I've had the DV valve changed, eth MAF changed, spark plugs changed, air filter changed and it still does it so go figure


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## Jetta_1.8Tip (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_People with this problem, it would help if you have a Tip or Manual.
If they are Tips, there ya go.

Ouch!! That kinda hurt








Feeling the need for a little Tip slamming this morning huh?
My Tip doesn't do this


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

The EXACT same thing has been happening to me for the past 2-3K miles.
Dead stock '01 WE (AWW) w/30K miles. New stock DV @ ~7K miles. New coilpacks and MAF @ ~23K miles. Manual gearbox.
I always run 93 octane gas and don't race.
HELP!








Can we get a moderator to put a sticky on this thread?


_Modified by The Kilted Yaksman at 2:14 PM 1-8-2004_


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (The Kilted Yaksman)*

Bump for attention!


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## spoolin turbo s (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
If any faults are detected with the electronic power control (DBW) system it will light. 
ex: essentially accelerator pedal/DBW throttle body/possibly an ECU issue. 

really? 
mine comes on and stays on if i run MAF less


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## hghpsigti (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

this is the perfect description of what happens.....the car is not even in boost yet........another point is that if this is a faulty programming in the ecu....it would not lite up a cel because thats they way the ecu is programmed....it doesnt think there is anything wrong.......any vw techs out there wanna chime in ? please !!!


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## Dr. Edlocks (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (hghpsigti)*

*OMG!OMG!OMG!REVOKILLPROGRAM!OMG!OMG!*


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## kptaylor (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Dr. Edlocks)*

Mine does it, too. '01 Jetta WE = AWW 5 spd.
Forgot to say I have Up, N75H and 2.5" TB.


_Modified by kptaylor at 4:48 PM 1-9-2004_


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (kptaylor)*

My 2003 1.8t 5spd has done thise twice for the 1st times ever this past 2 weeks. I assumed it was because the car was not fully warmed up. Normally i start my car and let it warm up in the garage in the mornings for a few minutes while i gather last minute items.........the ONLY times this has happened i only had a few seconds to let the car sort of warm up, but the rpm had not fully settled as i normally let it do. i thought i was riding a bucking bronco when it happened it was CRAZY


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

To add to what he said. I always let my car idle until the secondary air pump has done its thing, and rpms are low. I also almost never get into boost until my water is up to 190. I even try to wait till my oil temp is at least registering on the gauge before I boost. I still get this jerking, randomly.
Do you guys think it would be possible to catch this on a VAG-COM, logging throttle position? Or is it too abrupt to catch it? 
Bump for more info.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

no one knows the cause of this.
I have noticed this since day one of owning the car. Dealer seems to think it is normal. Usually goes away after fully warming up so i kinda learned to live with it.
Search "hesitation" and you'll see it's common and no fix or even a clue what causes it.


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_no one knows the cause of this.
I have noticed this since day one of owning the car. Dealer seems to think it is normal. Usually goes away after fully warming up so i kinda learned to live with it.
Search "hesitation" and you'll see it's common and no fix or even a clue what causes it.


I searched the archives for hesitation. I read the top 6 or 7 threads, and most of them are complaing about 3/4 throttle, or 40mph, or low boost, or bad MAFs. Only one of the 7 sounds similar, and there were no hard facts to support a cause or fix.
I do think most of those people were talking about hesitation, while one mentioned bucking. (But he was getting a CEL).
What I am feeling, is like instantly cutting the engine off, and then its back on again. It feel like sitting in a car with a person learning to drive a stick for the first time, and they arent giving it enough throttle.
Anyone think a throttle position log will reveal anything??


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## Grogthefrog (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

i would try a different N75 anyway for arguments sakes. and lemme axe you, when it is running "normally" is it boosting right? i mean, is it possible you have a vaccum leak? like maybe a loose vaccum hose? or a hole in a vaccum line?


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## KoolAidKid (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Grogthefrog)*

nevermind


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## RechtsFahren (Dec 8, 2000)

*Re: (3wheelinWolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3wheelinWolf* »_ What I am feeling, is like instantly cutting the engine off, and then its back on again. It feel like sitting in a car with a person learning to drive a stick for the first time, and they arent giving it enough throttle.

Yeah, I've also got the same thing, the exact opposite problem of the thread initiator: My idle suddenly drops from ~840 to around ~500 for a second, usually after letting OFF the gas in low gears. That's really the exact opposite problem as the surge, isn't it?
A fair number of people have this problem, many say it is 'normal', but I didn't have this until after 75K miles, so I don't think it is 'normal'.
I've got a '99 AEB (cable throttle), I cleaned the TB, and I've ruled out a bunch of other stuff, I mean, I've covered the gamut. I suppose it could be a weird air problem, an ECU problem, or maybe an accessory tensioner is about to seize or something. No DTCs! I don't understand how a car can nearly stall out a half dozen times a day, but this doesn't show up as a problem, or even as a misfire, according to the ECU.
FWIW I have also experienced a one-time event of the engine just cutting out completely for a second, I mean totally dead (in-gear so still turning over but with no combustion), at highway speed, and then coming back on. Wild. I know other people have said the same thing has happened to them.
I'm guessing multiple causes could create similar symptoms, but there's no question in my mind there are some very weird things afoot in our stock ECUs.


_Modified by RechtsFahren at 10:51 PM 1-8-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (spoolin turbo s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spoolin turbo s* »_
really? 
mine comes on and stays on if i run MAF less

I guess the ECU considers the MAF part of the E-Gas system (DBW).


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Grogthefrog)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grogthefrog* »_i would try a different N75 anyway for arguments sakes. and lemme axe you, when it is running "normally" is it boosting right? i mean, is it possible you have a vaccum leak? like maybe a loose vaccum hose? or a hole in a vaccum line?

What N75 is good with V11 and a boostvalve MBC? I'm running my stock valve now. (Yes, I have also removed the MBC, and achieved the same jerk.)


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## joey50 (Sep 27, 2002)

Well I put a ground wire kit on mine. Same problem! I guess I'll scratch that one out of the solutions....


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (joey50)*

Joey, i just bought a ground kit today and i was going to install over the weekend but i guess it won't really help that hesitation so guys, once again i am lost and clueless. IS THERE ANY VW TECH ON THIS SITE THAT COULD HELP US OUT. PLEASE HELP US OUT







. Thanks


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

Uhh..sorry. Shoulda mentioned that I have totaly grounded my dub. You can follow seanathan's (I beleive it was his thread) guide to see how I did it. Obvioulsy, this didn't help with the jerking.


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## 1meandub (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

I used to have a very similiar problem with my 24 VR6. However, mine would just do the exact opposite. I would start and be giving gas (not touching the clutch) and then all of a sudden it would almost stall.
It seemed to only happen to me when it was really cold outside. Below zero degrees centigrade.
That happened when I had less than 10,00kms on the clock. Now I have close to 55,00kms and my coil packs replaced and it hasn't come back this year.







(Knock on wood)


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## SP00LN (Oct 18, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Silver_Bullet_VR6)*

keep it up top bump....and yes, i have this SAME problem...phew, i thought it was only me. We gotta try and find a solution to this. BTW i have the N75H (ecs).


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (SP00LN)*

Guys lets keep on bumping this tread until we find a solution http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

This thread has some tough competition. ECS mani, GIAC tuning, APR tuning...
Any other N75 variences that have this problem??


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

Hey 3Wheelinwolf, what do you mean by tough competition ie: ECS, GIAC and APR, sorry for my ignorance but i do not know what you are referring to


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## SP00LN (Oct 18, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

bump for us


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stephbbbb* »_Hey 3Wheelinwolf, what do you mean by tough competition ie: ECS, GIAC and APR, sorry for my ignorance but i do not know what you are referring to









I meant, with all the attenetion those threads are getting, it will be tough to keep this one on top for ppl to look at. Sorry for the confusion bro.


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

Bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (The Kilted Yaksman)*

OK..I have a little more info. Just something I noticed.
Engine was cold, but at normal idle. Was slowly accelerating, shifting to second gear. Was at about 10 in Hg vac, and I saw the gauage spike to 0-1 psi, and drop back down to 10 vac. This was accompanied by the famous jerk motion we're investigating. It has to be something with the relationship between the throtle and N75. Are there VAG logs that people can get from the N75? (Is that requested boost?)


----------



## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

bump

_Quote, originally posted by *3wheelinWolf* »_OK..I have a little more info. Just something I noticed.
Engine was cold, but at normal idle. Was slowly accelerating, shifting to second gear. Was at about 10 in Hg vac, and I saw the gauage spike to 0-1 psi, and drop back down to 10 vac. This was accompanied by the famous jerk motion we're investigating. It has to be something with the relationship between the throtle and N75. Are there VAG logs that people can get from the N75? (Is that requested boost?)


----------



## durksterVR6 (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

I dont run a N75 ( I use a profec b) and I get this behaviour in cold temperatures.
I always wait for thesecondary air pump to finish its business before driving off , and then I find I have to keep the ride at a constant 1900-2000 rpm whilst driving to avoid this behaviour unitl the engine is up to temperature.
BTW I am not using stock programming or turbo.
The specific behaviour for me is the car will either begin to die if revs are keep too low or the car will surge forward ( what I dont want it to do with a freezing cold engine), or a combination of the two; surging / dying.
Once up to temperature I have no issues.


----------



## johnAWD (Aug 13, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

Is the car an automatic?

_Quote, originally posted by *jlam* »_I'm not sure if anyone has had this problem, but I could not find anything after doing a search on this.
Took my 2002, 1.8T Jetta into the dealer because of a problem I have been having. When you start from a stand still, and press the gas, the car will start but will suddenly surge. Then it seems like the gears change and the car accelerates smoothly again. This does not happen every time. 
The dealer took the codes, and is getting readings that they are unable to interpret. They are now looking to VWOC/VWOA or whoever, to get help on this issue. The tech took it for a ride and knows there is something not right, but cannot tell what it is.
I have had coil packs replaced already with the latest versions. There is only 50,000 km on it. 
Has anyone had a "surging" issue such as this?


----------



## johnAWD (Aug 13, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (durksterVR6)*

How does the profec handle the transition from building boost to maintaining boost w/the n75 out of the loop? 

_Quote, originally posted by *durksterVR6* »_I dont run a N75 ( I use a profec b) and I get this behaviour in cold temperatures.


----------



## durksterVR6 (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (johnAWD)*

The profec b performs very well for me , however I think that it has little to no influence on the throttle surge issues as I am not really building any boost at the sort of RPMs/ speeds we are talking about in this thread.
I am glad I never spent a penny on all of the various n75 valves, they seem to be so picky as to which car and aftermarket ECU code / bolt on parts they will play nicely with, the profec b doesnt care.
The profec b only comes into play for me between 17-2X psi due to my tial wastegate with 17 psi of spring.
I have not felt/ seen any issues inside this boost range.

_Modified by durksterVR6 at 1:04 PM 1-11-2004_


_Modified by durksterVR6 at 1:07 PM 1-11-2004_


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (durksterVR6)*

After 3 pages, we are still in the dark. Anybody can help us out with this surge problem so we can finnaly drive our cars normally without having to care about surge problem. Please help us out


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

Well...I guess noone has an answer for this one. Really hoping someine like Ramain, or other worthy 1.8T nerds <---a good thing would chime in.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

Bump for a great thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

TTT


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## Karl0z (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

my car => AWP 5 speed 2003 GTI do the same anoying problem...
someone help please


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## BananaCo (Sep 16, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (JettaRed)*

I had this problem, but it was fixed with updated coilpacks.


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## SP00LN (Oct 18, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (BananaCo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BananaCo* »_I had this problem, but it was fixed with updated coilpacks.

Anyone else have success with the updated coilpacks?


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (BananaCo)*

Bananaco,
I had my coils changed under warranty and still does the same. Would you know what is the number of your coils so i can check with mine


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## BananaCo (Sep 16, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

no idea what the dealer gave me. how do i check?
BTW, my surging problem is only with the APR v2 chip, not the stock programming.


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (BananaCo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BananaCo* »_no idea what the dealer gave me. how do i check?
BTW, my surging problem is only with the APR v2 chip, not the stock programming.

You should be able to look at the invoice/work order and see the coil pack part number listed. I know I have J's


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

Hey Bananaco, can you check your invoice and let us know the part number


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## hghpsigti (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

i had my coils chaged to the latest "L" vesion and it still does it......so i dont think its the coilpacks......


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## 1.8T180hp (May 3, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

I have the same problem
02 tip with 35Kmiles.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (1.8T180hp)*

TTT


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## maestro67 (Jun 2, 2003)

Ive gone through all three pages and no one has pointed out the possibility of defective valves. What I meant by this is that we drive a 20v 4 cylinder engine. Think about it..... in each cylinder we have 5 valves, and all it takes to create a bucking sensation is one too many vales were defective. I came across this problem occassionally on my car....damn shameful if you ask me, especially with a passenger who drives a beamer. 
My uncle drives a stock passat avant with the same engine as ours, he brought it to a local dealer late last year and they diagnosed it to be faulty valves. They had 2 valves changes in one of the 4 cylinders and since then my uncle have not expereinced any more jerking/surge/bucking. 
I have not changed the valves on my ride yet, simply b'cos I have learnt to live with the problem since.
You guys should bring this issue of defective valves to your dealer and ask them what they make out of it.
Good luck!


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## [email protected] (Nov 27, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

just started doing it today, it seems to happen when I am not on the gas very hard, ie: I am just cruising along at about 80 k/ph or 50 mph, and then like people have said it cuts out for about 1 sec and starts back normal again, it is like the fuel is being cut off for a split second. 
Interesting, I will see if the car keeps it up?? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED ([email protected])*

Hey Goodies, i do not mean to depress you but when it occured the first time i tought it was just bad gas that i had put in but since it kept on doing it and it is getting worst every days. Tought i'd let you know.


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

i think it comes down to this: the 1.8t is a querky motor.....


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## 01AWW18T (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

Hey, i use to get this in my 1.8t with AWW motor, 4 speed auto.
First instance, I took it to the dealer and they did a TBA, cleaned the throttle body and told me that there's alot of carbon build up and that I should do this every year. This definitely fixed the problem because the car ran better than when it first rolled out the dealer.This fix lasted about 8 months, then it gradually came back. I then added a bottle of wynn's (the black bottle professional kind) fuel injector cleaner into the gas tank and ran that for a tank and it seems to fix the problem somewhat. Since then I've traded in the Jetta, so I'm not sure if maintaining a cleaner engine and getting rid of the carbon routinely will solve the problem or not. I was told maybe it was the valves sticking, and keeping the engine clean would prevent that. HTH


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (01AWW18T)*

i love how vw told you the valves sticking might be cause of the problem...yet they did not take any action to try to repair this issue. the fact that you are not the only person who has mentioned this is kind of disgusting, to know that the engine design (or at least valvetrain) is that subjectable to valve stick.....


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

Ugh. I don't think I would trust the dealership to replace any number of valves. They couldn't even change my coil-packs w/o screwing up my injectors. I picked the car up (after coil recall), started it, the car bucked like it had a dead coil. Walked back into the service room, they found there were loose injectors. 
Valves...I doubt they'll ever see my valves.


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

i agree...but if that is the cause of this problem...i think we have more to worry about then just the hesitation we are experiencing








off topic, but still exciting to me: my girlfriend will be picking up her brand new mazda 6 on monday. this thing is fully loaded and absolutly gorgeous! one SOLID car! two thumbs up to mazda.










_Modified by mwwhonda at 1:31 PM 1-15-2004_


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

Guys,
Lets keep bumping this tread, it seems that we are coming up with more solutions


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## Diabolikul (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: (RechtsFahren)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RechtsFahren* »_
Yeah, I've also got the same thing, the exact opposite problem of the thread initiator: My idle suddenly drops from ~840 to around ~500 for a second, usually after letting OFF the gas in low gears. That's really the exact opposite problem as the surge, isn't it?
A fair number of people have this problem, many say it is 'normal', but I didn't have this until after 75K miles, so I don't think it is 'normal'.
I've got a '99 AEB (cable throttle), I cleaned the TB, and I've ruled out a bunch of other stuff, I mean, I've covered the gamut. I suppose it could be a weird air problem, an ECU problem, or maybe an accessory tensioner is about to seize or something. No DTCs! I don't understand how a car can nearly stall out a half dozen times a day, but this doesn't show up as a problem, or even as a misfire, according to the ECU.
FWIW I have also experienced a one-time event of the engine just cutting out completely for a second, I mean totally dead (in-gear so still turning over but with no combustion), at highway speed, and then coming back on. Wild. I know other people have said the same thing has happened to them.
I'm guessing multiple causes could create similar symptoms, but there's no question in my mind there are some very weird things afoot in our stock ECUs.

_Modified by RechtsFahren at 10:51 PM 1-8-2004_

I have an 03 GTI 1.8t, with tip. 1200 miles on it (brand new). Slowing to a stop, let off gas, RPMs drop to say 1000 or so and bounce back up to 1200 or so. THis causes the car to feel like you just pressed the brake pedal a bit harder and then it releases. Lasts a second or 2. So.. not a surge, not a hesitation.. not sure what to call it, but I watch the RPMs drop and bounce back up.. it's more like a stutter.


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_i agree...but if that is the cause of this problem...i think we have more to worry about then just the hesitation we are experiencing








off topic, but still exciting to me: my girlfriend will be picking up her brand new mazda 6 on monday. this thing is fully loaded and absolutly gorgeous! one SOLID car! two thumbs up to mazda.









_Modified by mwwhonda at 1:31 PM 1-15-2004_

Two things. 
1. I'm not convinced that this is the problem. I won't get my panties in a knot until I research that more.
2. The Mazda 6 is a great car, I agree totally. MY best friend has a fully loaded silver one that he got about 3 months ago. Really well rounded vehicle.


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## vwgti1.8TT (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

I have had this problem for the last few months. VW knows something is up, but have no clue what it can be. It is so annoying, does this both in stock and 93 mode. I have done many things trying to resolve, thinking it a new DV, coil packs, N75. Nothing has worked. It does it even when the car is warmed up. Dealer says "oh it does that till engine is nice and warm". Nope does it all the time. Help me out here too people. What could this be??


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## exS4 (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (vwgti1.8TT)*

"I have had this problem for the last few months. VW knows something is up, but have no clue what it can be. It is so annoying, does this both in stock and 93 mode. I have done many things trying to resolve, thinking it a new DV, coil packs, N75. Nothing has worked. It does it even when the car is warmed up. Dealer says "oh it does that till engine is nice and warm". Nope does it all the time. Help me out here too people. What could this be??"
Did you say you got a new/different DV?
I just changed from my Stock DV to an EVO DV, and so-far it SEEMS like my surge is gone!


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## vwgti1.8TT (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (exS4)*

Yea, I put on a Forge DV and it did the same thing. Then I switched back to the stock 710N. It seemed to run better with the stock DV.


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (vwgti1.8TT)*

Sounds like you may a good guinea pig for us. Since the dealership is involved, and trying to figure it out...make the valve suggestion, and see what they say.


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (3wheelinWolf)*

bump.....i want more info too.


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## Ebanks (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

I also have this problem. I have an 03 20th AE. This is the only problem I have had, and my car has 8500 miles. I have been having this problem since probably 1500 miles or so.
-Ethan


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Ebanks)*

Guys, lets keep bumping until we find a solution


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## gimmeAdub (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

30k on an AWD 5 speed and i get the bucking feeling after a cold start. i let it warm up but anywhere in the low rpm range my car will hesitate and buck like crazy. i have to be very careful till it gets fully warm. but then when its fully warm i may be driving and i get the feeling like my fuel cuts out for a second then comes back.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (gimmeAdub)*

Bump again


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## SP00LN (Oct 18, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (exS4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *exS4* »_
Did you say you got a new/different DV?
I just changed from my Stock DV to an EVO DV, and so-far it SEEMS like my surge is gone!


Dont get your hopes too high....i have the same probs as everyone else AND i have the EVO DV


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## abeR (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (SP00LN)*

same thing here
threw some codes
misfires
coolant temp sensor
dv intermittent
oy vey
off to the stealer to see about new coils again


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (abe1.8t)*

ttt


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## GT1373A (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

I've got that problem as well. I resigned myself to not thinking about it. Whenever I know there's going to be a cold front, I fill up on 89 octane. Seems to work but it's only a band-aid solution. This same problem existed way back when coilpacks started going bad. I remember complaining, and getting the VW reps telling me to use lower octane(despite the car rating to be 91 octane)
I have the added problem that my starter hates the cold weather and in the morning it can take up to 10 or 12 seconds before the car starts to crank. Most of the time it's about a 3 second delay.
I'd be more than glad to get rid of the problem too


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## GT1373A (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (GT1373A)*

bump


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (GT1373A)*

bump


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## mogale (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (GT1373A)*

Try running BG44-K through your system. I have a 2001 passat auto AUG and have never had this problem. The BG 44-K works very well, and I've got 78,215 on the clock.

For your slow starts, check for low water level in your battery. I top it off with distilled water and everything is hunky-dory.


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## microfire600 (Jan 8, 2004)

What is Surging? 
Compressor surge is where the air backs up in the compressor and oscillates violently within the compressor wheel. This happens when the engine's swallowing capacity is exceded by the compressor's output. 
The technical definition is when the pressure after the compressor exceeds the radial velocity component of the compressor wheel's output which causes the air to back up.
The sensation is somewhat akin to getting on the pedal and simultaneously then getting off it, many times, the car feels like its bucking, acceleration, deceleration, acceleration, etc.
ck out this post 1.8t FAQ - Please Read


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (microfire600)*

ttt


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## GTI20vman (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

anybody think this could have anything to do with the fuelpump? Seems that if there was a hesitation in throttle responce the fuel pump could be would be the cause.


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## fowtj (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: (GTI20vman)*

Yeah... I have this problem. When the motor is cold and I try to take off from a stop the car acts like it is running out of gas. I put the clutch in and the car stumbles around 200 rpm for about 5 seconds then it goes back to being normal and drives fine. This has only started happening this winter (below 45 degrees) and even then happens only intermittantly. My local bonehead dealership says there is an ECU re-flash for the misfire problem (but they dont have it). One of the techs said that if I stop running premium it would help it... but f*%# that, why should I have to sacrifice some power to make up for thier design flaws.
It gives me misfire codes and one time even threw a CEL.


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## kptaylor (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (fowtj)*

Four pages of bumping and no evidence that "VW IS NOW INVOLVED" like the poster stated...
Waste of time.


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## gimmeAdub (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (GTI20vman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI20vman* »_anybody think this could have anything to do with the fuelpump? Seems that if there was a hesitation in throttle responce the fuel pump could be would be the cause. 

my motor is in my mk2 and using the mk2 fuel pump and still having the same problems as listed.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (gimmeAdub)*

Bump


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## GT1373A (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: (kptaylor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kptaylor* »_Four pages of bumping and no evidence that "VW IS NOW INVOLVED" like the poster stated...



Yeah, I was wondering about that


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## GTI20vman (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: (GT1373A)*

bump


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (GTI20vman)*

Bump


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## SP00LN (Oct 18, 2002)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stephbbbb* »_Bump


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (SP00LN)*

bump again


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## exS4 (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (GT1373A)*

"Four pages of bumping and no evidence that "VW IS NOW INVOLVED" like the poster stated..."
Maybe vw is "actively ignoring" his problem!


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## kptaylor (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (exS4)*

Maybe, but rather than several people just continuously bumping this thread, why don't they pick up the phone and start calling VW. 
Like VW regularly reads these posts anyway...


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (kptaylor)*

Maybe, but rather than several people just continuously bumping this thread, why don't they pick up the phone and start calling VW. 
Like VW regularly reads these posts anyway... 
Hey Kptaylor, why do you think that we are bumping this tread, don't you think that we tried with the vwdealer before


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## Cypher2k (Nov 23, 2000)

Local NGK spark plug god says for extreme cold driving.. Ditch the colder spark plugs, and run 87 octane.
He's the ignition guru and I beleive him.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (Cypher2k)*

Bump again and again


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## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_
this problem occurs before the car is even in boost.....we are talking from a dead stop with MINIMAL throttle

Add me to the list







most every morning on cold starts now


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## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: (Cypher2k)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cypher2k* »_Local NGK spark plug god says for extreme cold driving.. Ditch the colder spark plugs, and run 87 octane.
He's the ignition guru and I beleive him.

Re: low octane. It is a band-aid fix and certainly should not be practiced on engine running octane specific software (i.e. any chip).


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## abeR (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (einsig)*

this is getting very annoying
now it happens multiple times daily
time to go in







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## 1.8T180hp (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (abe1.8t)*

I changed brand of Gasoline, and so far I have had not had it happen on this new tank. I had been using Shell 93. On this tank of 76 Station 93, I am having luck.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (1.8T180hp)*

Bump


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## boraattack (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

If everyone has this problem with the car cold and not in boost, i also have this. My car runs like crap when it is cold. I usually let it idle at least a minute before i move it. I also have intermintant surging in the upper rpm's when the car is at reg. temperature. This is more than likely due to a maf. Checking the air flow with a vag-com showed(at least on my car) that it would get up to 80 and drop off to 40, thus the measured less amount of air would cut the fuel which the air was still there but was unable to enter into the motor and go back through the dv. And i spent around a year with vw trying to get them to resolve the issue to no avail. Just recently cleaned the maf and hopefully it will work.
Bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## inflatin (Sep 4, 2003)

like some others, ive had the oppsite of the thread topic, i drive off from a stop slowly and suddenly a sharp drop in power for like half a second, then everythings normal again... i dont know if its coincidence, but i switched from arco gas (i heard it was cheap(in quality)) to mobil and 76. then on it still happened, but not nearly as much.


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## Irie18Turbo (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Quit Bumping....*


_Quote »_
Hey Kptaylor, why do you think that we are bumping this tread, don't you think that we tried with the vwdealer before









How about calling VWOA. Do you really think your dealership cares?
The only time they care is when you walk in with cash in hand drooling
over a new one. If you want action quit bumping the thread and call
VWOA - (800) 822 8987


_Modified by Irie18Turbo at 9:49 AM 1-23-2004_


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Quit Bumping.... (Irie18Turbo)*

Irie, thanks i will give them a shout and see what they have to say


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Quit Bumping.... (Stephbbbb)*

Irie18Turbo.
For your info, i just spoke to the VWOA at the number you wrote down and the guy told me that i have to go back to the dealer and have them call the Techical Hot line for VW and the dealer would speak to the techincian and they can try to sort it out but my dealer and others i have tried before will not take the time to do that. So what should i do next.


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## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: (inflatin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inflatin* »_like some others, ive had the oppsite of the thread topic, i drive off from a stop slowly and suddenly a sharp drop in power for like half a second, then everythings normal again... i dont know if its coincidence, but i switched from arco gas (i heard it was cheap(in quality)) to mobil and 76. then on it still happened, but not nearly as much.

anyone with hesitation issues considered replacing their fuel filter?


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (punkassjim)*

Hey Punkassjim,
This hesitation occurs even on 2003 cars with very low miles on them so i cannot be the fuel filter


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## eleazar1 (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

I just thought this was a fluke. Only happened to me twice in 9000 miles. 
Mine does the opposite, by the way: sharp throttle drop during slow acceleration with cold engine. I only have a cai, everything else stock.


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## Karl0z (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

same for me... (2003 gti 1.8t) from the purchase date to now .. im at 12k kilo
bad bad bad ...


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## exS4 (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: (eleazar1)*

"sharp throttle drop during slow acceleration with cold engine."
Maybe it's cause the Engine is cold.... Just a thought!


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## eleazar1 (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (exS4)*

I was wondering if this is just inherent (sp) in Turbo engines when they are cold?


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (eleazar1)*

a co-worker has a 02 jetta 1.8t tip that had this problem for months. 1st in the cold weather and eventually even the hot. They finally fixed her problem for a month now. They cleaned the TB, injectors, and did a 2nd reprogramming update. They probably used something similar to http://www.bgprod.com
Modern engines accumulate carbon deposits VERY rapidly even on brand new engines. The quality of unleaded gas is crap. I've seen 20,000 BMW motors with enough carbon that you could scoop it off. Look into a TB cleaning and high quality injector cleaning that actually pumps fluid through the rail & injectors. A grounding kit on ANY car is NEVER a bad idea.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

Sounds like a good idea http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vtecwrecker (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

Anyone think it could be a faulty n75 valve?? I have the same problem, but I don't recall it happening during the weeks that I had a boost controller on the car. And I completly unhooked the n75 valve.. That's my guess.. Anyone tried different valves??


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (vtecwrecker)*

There is some people with this problem that had their DV valve and N75 valve changed and it still does it


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## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stephbbbb* »_Hey Punkassjim,
This hesitation occurs even on 2003 cars with very low miles on them so i cannot be the fuel filter

Perhaps there is a bad batch of fuel filters that made their way onto 2003 cars.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (einsig)*

Einsig,
My Jetta is a 2002 so maybe the fuel filter is bad in 2002 and 2003


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## TurboBucho (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re:*

The g/f's '01 1.8T Golf has been at the dealer 8 times in the past 3 months because of this. They have replaced everything... Bypass valve, diverter valve, n75, MAF (recall), I forget what else. Anyway, It went back in last Monday, the VW rep was called in to work on it. He believes the problem was the MAF. Supposedly VW screwed up some of their inventory of MAF's (part #'s were wrong) so the incorrect MAF was installed. The dealer will have the car for the next 2 weeks while the g/f is in NJ for training. We'll see if its fixed when she gets back.
And for the record, my 03 has ~1,700 miles on it and I haven't had this problem.


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## tomturbo (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

hi, 
my 98'' AGU ride does the same , but only if it`s cold !
a few things which are not causing this problem :
-n75
-MAF
-fuel pump 
i could imagine that there is a part somewhere which is sensible against cold , or another thinh i want to try next is the cam sensor (view from top of the engine ,left in the corner , big black connector )
somebody else an idea 
Tom


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## aqua_blue_pearl_g60 (Dec 4, 2001)

Bump for those with the problem!


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (aqua_blue_pearl_g60)*

Bump


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## abeR (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

ok, so now it seems to work fine.








threw a cell last friday, didnt drive it on sat, and sunday it was fine, have not run codes yet though.


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## eleazar1 (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (abe1.8t)*

Anybody tried changing their temp sensor to a green one?
I have not; I was just curious to hear the results.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=858782


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (eleazar1)*

Eleazar, my sensor was changed and it still does it


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## abeR (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

ditto


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (abe1.8t)*

i just think its a fault in the ecu code...


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## 4thvw (Jan 4, 2004)

my 04 does the same, 2000 miles, no mods other than a DG short shift and a boost gage(yet)


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## bengone1 (Jun 17, 2003)

*Re: (4thvw)*

Just to complicate things. i have a 2001 AWW running 99 AEB injection. i have tried the AWW DV and N75 and the DV/n75 setup from a 20th AE (AWP?) 3.0 and 4.0 BAR FPR. running. 93 oct. no chip, 5 spd, two different AEB ECUs. fresh NGK plugs. MAF cleaned, TB cleaned (and swapped with 2.0L ABA TB) going to go get me a "green" coolant temp sender seeing as i'm still using the 98 2.0l one







it intermittantly does the hesitation hot or cold around 2-3k rpm only under light acceleration. eager to hear any solutions because i don't think VW will honor a recall on any of the cars i've used to make mine


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## RonJeremy (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (bengone1)*

Something Similar happenes to me on my stock Jetta AWW 19K. 
It happens at a certain amount of throttle if you hold it steady in 1st only. 
To prevent it feather the gas down slightly as the RPM goes up.


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## tomturbo (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (RonJeremy)*

just to make something sure , nobody took the rev range into consideration so far , i talked to several people and they all have it 
around 2000 +- 100 RPM .
are you facing the same range ?
Tom


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## 1.8T180hp (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (tomturbo)*

I have order the green coolant sensor also. I know for sure my stock sensor is gone.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (1.8T180hp)*

TomTurbo.
The dead spot (Surge or Hesitation) occurs between 2400 to 2700 RPM in 1st gear wheter the car is hot or cold. Now it does it in every gear. It also happened to me going 95 miles on the highway without even changing gears or downshifting so this is getting worst everyday. Go figure this one out, so far nobody could fine what's worng with my car. I took it severeal times to the dealer. I changed my cooling temp sensor, grounded the car, changed spark plugs, air filter, cleaned Thottle body the dealer even scan my computer and the is no codes or fault and still does the same Fu..... thing. No clue what is left to check. Anybody out here is qualified for this kind of problem. Please guys i need some help


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## 1.8T180hp (May 3, 2002)

Hass anyone changed the fuel filter?


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (1.8T180hp)*

1.8T listen this problem happens to brand new car wheter it is 2001, 2002, 2003 or 2004 so i doubt that there was a bad batch or fuel filter for 4 years in a row. Once again it could be possible


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## drtraw (Feb 10, 2000)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

I'm glad someone finally brought this up, I have been struggling with this problem on my 2001 golf 1.8T (AWW) for about 2 years now. The only part of my engine that was ever modified was that I replaced the DV with the audi part from the TT (N valve I think), hoping that this would cure the surging but it did not. For those of you who wonder if your chip caused this I think you can rest easy, I have always run stock chip/ecu.
Also, some have posted about a hesitation, more of a stumble, that is happening to them when the engine is cold. I had this too, but it is a separate issue from the surging that this post is talking about. The coil pack recall solved the cold engine stumbling but did nothing for the surging. The only way to describe the difference, besides the fact that that the surging happens even after the engine is warmed up, is that that with the surging there is a definate surge of power and accel just before everthing cuts out for a second. On my car, it feels as if it is building boost too quickly (it accelerates more than normal) and then either the fuel is cut or the ecu does something to cut boost. maybe using the turbo wastegate to dump boost, or if fuel is cut maybe the DV lets the pressure out. I don't know if that's accurate or not maybe someone could weigh in. Another thing I notice now is that when the power is cut, if I leave my foot on the gas and try to drive through it instead of letting off as is the natural reaction, I can hear what sounds like a low hissing noise until the power returns. Sometimes the power comes back on very suddenly if I leave my foot in it, almost like behing hit from behind I don't know what this means but maybe some mechanics out there can make something of it.
Please let us know if anyone figures this out becuase it sounds like a lot of people are frustrated by it.


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## boraattack (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: (drtraw)*

maf! if you get wrong air readings it will screw with the fuel supply the engine is getting thus cause surging. Try to check the airflow with a vag-com and if it is not a constant at high rpm's then most likely it is a faulty or dirty maf. (Not sure what could cause it at low rpm's though)


_Modified by boraattack at 8:04 PM 2-4-2004_


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## drtraw (Feb 10, 2000)

*Re: (boraattack)*

Another thing to point out, the surging that I get ONLY happens at light throttle, at anything more than 2/3 throttle it runs perfectly from idle to redline. I don't know about VW's but on some other cars there are two modes of engine operation, open loop and closed loop. Closed loop is where the ECU makes adjustments to fuel, timing, etc based on post-combustion data it is getting in from the O2 sensor (located in the exhaust stream) - if the exhaust is too rich or too lean the ECU makes adjustments to compensate in real time. IN open loop, which is at 1/2 throttle or more, it runs more like an older car without the ECU attempting to correct things on the fly. I don't know if newer VWs operate this same way (I'm thinking of a 93 nissan so maybe things have changed) but if they do, maybe it is an ECU or a sensor problem, that would explain why it doesn't happen under full throttle / open loop operation. Just a thought, might help to diagnose.
As for the MAF, I was hoping that would be the problem with my car, but several other people on this post claim they replaced theirs and it didn't fix the problem. Also, the problem seems to be at low rpm only, not high rpm.


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## 4thvw (Jan 4, 2004)

They also run open loop when cold, Before the o2 sensor is up to temp.


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## boraattack (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: (drtraw)*

right! i had surging at high rpm's (3000 & up) and the cleaning of my maf seemed to sole my surging, and i doubt it would cause the low rpm problem.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (boraattack)*

Bump


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## 1.8T driven (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (vtecwrecker)*

I had surge until i put N75H from ECS and no surge anymore








acceleration is very smooth now.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (1.8T driven)*

bump


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## abeR (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

in da shop since yesterday ...update to come soon
ok new TIP(was cracked) fixed coilpak?(how do you fix a coilpak) um .. ok? window regulators.. um again? ok..
all covered under ext warranty..whew
I dont know why they chose to stick it on my extended warranty, but ok
have not recieved the car so I cant tell you how it drives.
but they tell me its good to go


_Modified by abe1.8t at 2:48 PM 2-11-2004_


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (abe1.8t)*

Please keep us posted


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## abeR (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (abe1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abe1.8t* »_in da shop since yesterday ...update to come soon
ok new TIP(was cracked) fixed coilpak?(how do you fix a coilpak) um .. ok? window regulators.. um again? ok..
all covered under ext warranty..whew
I dont know why they chose to stick it on my extended warranty, but ok
have not recieved the car so I cant tell you how it drives.
but they tell me its good to go

_Modified by abe1.8t at 2:48 PM 2-11-2004_

ok
car runs smooth so far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif much much better then before..







, theres also another hose that was replaced, and I did a TBA...... when I can remember what hose it was, or get my invoice.. I will post it.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (abe1.8t)*

Bump


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

any one have any solid answers yet?


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## VolksDude (Jun 9, 1999)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*

Spark Plugs???
I was getting that alot when I was running the Bosch F7LCTR..
Went back to the NGK PFR6Q and the problem stopped. That was in april last year when I was still with the Stock ECU.
Still running like a charm now.


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## RipperMan (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (VolksDude)*

i had somethign similar happen to me...
Sometimes - i think this happend a few times, usualy when hard pressed riving...
i would change gear and ..well basicialy it would be as if the clutch was in about 9/10 of the way - the car would rev heavily but no speed increase even after a gear change - same problem - only way to reset was to take the gas out and put it down again...
is this what 'surging' is - if so - 1 more for the pot and a bump for the topic...
anyone ever get this FIXXED? if u got it fixed us hould make a post in GREEN saying - FIXED or something...


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## 1.8T driven (Jul 30, 2003)

Had a surge started last week so I took it to my dealer to check it out. They updaged my software and no mo surge.


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## TurboBucho (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: (1.8T driven)*

the problem in my g/f car seems to be resolved.... It started with replacing the DV, then the MAF, then the N75, then the N75 servo, then the DV again, then the dealer (actually the VW rep) found out they put the wrong MAF on the car and put the correct one on. She's put over 1000 miles on it since the last trip to the dealer and its still running great. I think hers is solved! Whether it was just the MAF the whole time or not, I don't know, but at least she didn't pay for any of this except for the DV.


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## GAPF1 (Feb 20, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

Can I just add my 2 cents here?! I posted under "Acceleration Hesitation", but reading through these, it sounds like I have a similar problem.
Extract from my post:
Anyone else experiencing a hesitation when accelerating?
Car was running great until first oil change, now getting this hesitation. If I accelerate in 2nd or 3rd gear, from just below 2000 rpm, it feels like the turbo is sticking, rather than spinning up freely. This only seems to happen when the engine is up to temperature, not when cold. If I accelerate from 1st gear, keeping the engine revs relatively high, acceleration feels OK.
The car in question is a 2003 Passat 1.8T, manual transmission. 6000+ miles so far.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (GAPF1)*

Yes sir, it soundslike the same problem


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

anyone tried unhooking their air intake temp sensor? i unhooked mine today and the car seems to be behaving! the truth will be told tommorrow morning in the cold, when it usually misbehaves the most.
ill let you know how it turns out.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (mwwhonda)*

Keep us posted http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Wifes02Jetta1.8t (Mar 2, 2004)

Well, my wifes 02 Jetta has this same exact problem. Its a Auto BTW. After I let it warm up a minute, and put in gear and his the acc., it shudders. It will shudder for about 30 sec's off and on then it is fine. Its been annoying the hell out of me. One morning it did it real bad and threw a CEL. It ended up being the coolant temp switch. It was fine after they replaced that, but now its doing it again. Someone find out some answers!!


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (Wifes02Jetta1.8t)*

ttt


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (RipperMan)*

_i would change gear and ..well basicialy it would be as if the clutch was in about 9/10 of the way - the car would rev heavily but no speed increase even after a gear change - same problem - only way to reset was to take the gas out and put it down again..._
I believe your problems is your clutch is fried.... not what we are experiencing.
See the thing is that most people have other problems that cause this and there doesn't seem to be a single fix. Some fix it with new maf or a new DV, or even a new green coolant sensor. 
Whether these people have the "so called" hesitation ... don't know really. For me it *ONLY[* happens when the car is not to temp.
For others it happens all the time.
Dunno what's going on here...
at least a bump


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## Raistlin (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_People with this problem, it would help if you have a Tip or Manual.
If they are Tips, there ya go.

My firend has a '02 1.8T TIP...an he got the same thing...Now im not totally technical, but I have noticed this issue with only TIPS and not the manuals, as I have a manual myself and haven't noticed anything of the sort and I have a couple of other guys who also have an '01, '03 1.8T GTi's and both are maual and they haven't seen this particualr issue...but then again, I only know one person that has a TIP, so maybe I am being biased...


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## 1.8T driven (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Raistlin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raistlin* »_
My firend has a '02 1.8T TIP...an he got the same thing...Now im not totally technical, but I have noticed this issue with only TIPS and not the manuals, as I have a manual myself and haven't noticed anything of the sort and I have a couple of other guys who also have an '01, '03 1.8T GTi's and both are maual and they haven't seen this particualr issue...but then again, I only know one person that has a TIP, so maybe I am being biased...









I have 5 speed and the throttle surge just happened couple of times. My sister with tip has no problems yet


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## arhab (Aug 10, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (1.8T driven)*

Another bump. 
I just noticed this thread. I have had the same symptoms. Removing the mesh screen in the MAF solved my problem. Maybe air turbulance caused bad measurements. 
I do have a 2.75" ID MAF. So, this is not to say that it will solve all problems as the same symptoms may have various causes....
Gr. Arhab


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## Shox Boy (Jun 25, 2003)

So what was the solution for this problem?
I have read that it was an engine software upgrade, but then it could also be the DV, MAF or the N75?
So any conclusion what the final fix was? Cuz I am having these problem and I guess so are many people here.
Thanks in advance.


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## boraattack (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: (Shox Boy)*

I have a question about everyone who is having this problem. Are there any codes that go along with this problem? I have a surging problem and have never thrown a code pertaining to the problem?


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## GAPF1 (Feb 20, 2004)

I took the car back to the dealership complaining about this 'surging problem'. They could not find any codes.


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## brian1377 (Dec 25, 2000)

*Re: (GAPF1)*

bump


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## RipperMan (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (brian1377)*

problem fixed!!
solution
learning how to drive properly


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (RipperMan)*

Bump for a funny reply


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## Karl0z (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: (RipperMan)*

problem fixed!!
solution
learning how to drive properly
-------------------------------------
sorry... but how you defind "drive properly ????


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## skate1point8 (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

i have never noticed a surge while under acceleration but at an idle my car likes to drop about 200 rpm's everyonce in a while and then quickly rise back up to where it should be at. i have a 2003 with only 7,000 miles....i haven't taken it into the dealership only b/c i haven't noticed any surging problems....anybody think i should take it in? or just leave it be?


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## RipperMan (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (skate1point8)*

you should take it every 5,000 miles i belive -


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## boraattack (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (skate1point8)*

My car does the same thing. Had it in for another problem and the dealer cleaned the valves and this fixed the problem for about a month.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (boraattack)*

Bump


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Stephbbbb)*

I've been having this exact problem with my '97 Jetta for the past two weeks. Initial acceleration in 1st gear is OK, but as soon as I take my foor off the gas, it feels like the engine shuts down and I lose a ton of speed. If I "lightly" step on the gas again (around 1/4 throttle), it accelerates nicely until around 2000 RPM and then it's "RIDE 'EM COWBOY!!" The whole car "bucks" and jerks like a mechanical bull. 
I took it for a test drive with a mechanic today (NOT from the dealership). He says that it is probably the "throttle sensor" sending an incorrect signal when I'm at 1/4 throttle and reaching 2000 RPM, so the computer stops the fuel supply. He's going to look at it tomorrow, so I'll pass along any info that I get.
I've been lurking here for quite a while and have gotten some good tips from a lot of you...thanks for the help.


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Nazareth33)*

BUMP!


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## brian1377 (Dec 25, 2000)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Nazareth33)*

I also have this problem. Kind of fells like the clutch is slipping between 2,000 and 3,000 rpm, but i know it is not because I have a ECS tuning stage 2 clutch with very low miles on it and I had the smae problem before replacing the clutch.


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (brian1377)*

Another idea: about 2 weeks ago I had a puddle of water on the driver's floor. Dealer told me that my sunroof drain was clogged and that caused the leak into the floor. The insulation under the carpet is still damp as we speak, although it's getting better. Any chance that this water somehow got into the ECU and is causing things to go haywire?


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## bikeguy301 (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Nazareth33)*

I found the solution for my hesitation problems! I was having the same hesitation at low speeds where the engine rpm's would drop out for a second then surge back. I have had the car scanned and could not pull up any problems. After reading many posts, this is what I did.
I replaced the coolant sensor, to the new green colored variety. According to parts guy, the original black version has caused a lot of problems. I also cleaned the throttle body at the same time. It has been a week and the problem has not come back. In fact the car drives like it did when it came off the showroom floor 2 years ago! This is worth a try for under $15 ($9 for sensor and $6 for throttle body cleaner) for all you frustrated people out there. Good Luck.


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## gtiownerskid (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (bikeguy301)*

i have a similar problem, i read till about page 2, then got tired and decided to post.
ill be driving, in any gear, at around 2k-2800 rpm, and when i want to sorta get the car going a little faster (not step on it, but just kinda move up a little, you know, to get in front of someone in the other lane, etc..) the rpm will increase, but for some reason, with probably 50% throttle, it'll spike up to 20 psi but the car doesnt take off like it normally does, it just sounds like it gets blown out the DV. BTW i have an '01 aww 5 speed. i can pretty much recreate the problem whenever i want to.. happens almost every time


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## racin40 (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (gtiownerskid)*

I have had the same problem a couple of times as well. Took it to the dealship, told me nothing was wrong with it. But they could not replicate the problem. Seeing this post lets me know I'm not just going crazy.


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (bikeguy301)*

Bikeguy, 
The "coolant temperature sensor", right? Chilton's lists three "coolant sensors". 
I had a coolant leak 3 weeks ago before this started...Maybe this is the solution. I replaced the spark plugs yesterday and it got better, but maybe the coolant sensor will be the answer.


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## redbeast (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Nazareth33)*

I have the problem only at 3000 rpm's. If i am just coasting at 3000 rpm's down the high way i see my Boost gauge vac go from 10 to 20 and then i let go of the gas and the rpm's drop just a little and then i can go again. I also can just keep on the gas pedal and see the vac go from 20 to PSI. this sucks a lot


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## gtiownerskid (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (redbeast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redbeast* »_I have the problem only at 3000 rpm's. If i am just coasting at 3000 rpm's down the high way i see my Boost gauge vac go from 10 to 20 and then i let go of the gas and the rpm's drop just a little and then i can go again. I also can just keep on the gas pedal and see the vac go from 20 to PSI. this sucks a lot























thats my problem. have you taken it to the dealership or anything? ide take it in but i dont wanna swap out my fpr... again..


_Modified by gtiownerskid at 4:23 PM 3-11-2004_


----------



## bikeguy301 (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (bikeguy301)*

I replaced the coolant temperature sensor. Please note that you should wait until the coolant is cool. Open the coolant reservoir to release the pressure in the system. Relpace the cover. The sensor in located on the right side of the engine about 6" down from top cover. Remove both plastic covers. Sensor is secured by a large horse shoe shaped retaining ring. Slip it off and switch out the old sensor with the new one. Don't forget to replace the o-ring on the sensor. It is worth a try for the $8.00 . My engine has run like new for over 1 week now. I also cleaned the throttle body at the same time , so this may have been part of the problem.


----------



## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (bikeguy301)*

TTT


----------



## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*THE BATTERY DID IT!!*

POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
I had a technician I know look at my car last week and he was stumped. He said that all indications were that I was having a problem with my throttle position sensor, but that there no codes stored confitming that.
He just called me at 8:00 this morning and told me that he went to a seminar this weekend, and one of the topics was this "bucking, hesitation" problem, specifically with 1996-1999 2.0 Jettas w/OBD2. Apparently, this problem may be caused by the BATTERY BEING DISCONNECTED for any period of time. In my case, the battery was disconnected 3 weeks ago when my starter motor was replaced. When the battery is disconnected, some stored memory in the ECU is erased so that the throttle sensor does not correctly guage whether it is closed or wide open.
Apperently if you have a scanner with up-to-date software, there is is a fairly simple way to reset the ECU to "Basic Settings" (he showed me a bulletin that he received at this seminar, and it looked like there were 4-5 steps). This will supposedly cure the bucking/hesitation problems and perhaps other driveability issues. 
I'm sorry if I haven't explained this very accurately (I'm a musician, not a technician). I'll let you know later on if this works. It could be much easier than replacing every component under the hood.


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Nazareth33)*

well if you have scanner ...resetting ECU is cake.
This does not cure the hesitation that we are experiencing.
Anyways below is not to reset ecu to basic settings but for TBA
I believe you should do this when you disconnect battery for any period of time....and sounds similar to what the tech told you about position of sensor not knowing open or close except it's at throttle body.
i believe it is better to do this when engine is cold:
open drivers door
open hood
key to "on" position
wait for ticking and light screeching sound to stop at the throttlebody about (30 secs)
key off ..wait 1 min
start car normally








_Modified by dknl at 6:20 AM 3-15-2004_

_Modified by dknl at 6:23 AM 3-15-2004_


_Modified by dknl at 6:23 AM 3-15-2004_


----------



## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (dknl)*

TTT


----------



## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Stephbbbb)*

The reset procedure is a little bit different than that. I don't remember every step, but one that I do remember directs you to hold the throttle wide open for 3-5 seconds. I just spoke to the technician again about 20 minutes ago. He says that he's getting readings from his scanner that indicate that the battery connection was in fact the root of my problem, and that returning the ECU to "Basic Settings" should fix it. I'll know for sure when I pick up my car this afternoon, and I'll try to get a copy of the "reset" steps to post as well. If I owned a scanner I'm sure it would be something I could have done myself.


----------



## 1.8T180hp (May 3, 2002)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Nazareth33)*

I am tending to agree with this battery theory. I just had my battery replaced under warranty due to a bad cell. I have not had this surging since, even on cold starts.


----------



## brian1377 (Dec 25, 2000)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (1.8T180hp)*

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-c....html


----------



## cbx (Feb 10, 2004)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (brian1377)*

IS THIS the solution??? Do I need to go to the dealer to have them do this? I have an 03 1.8T passat manual...


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (cbx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cbx* »_IS THIS the solution??? Do I need to go to the dealer to have them do this? I have an 03 1.8T passat manual...









it's just to reset your ecu with vagcom.
may or maynot help your problem....didn't do anything for me.


----------



## cbx (Feb 10, 2004)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (dknl)*

Well...I did an electical upgrade and the install required the disconnecting of my battery...I dont remember noticing anything before that...I'd love to get the straight deal on this...it's worse with the ac on I noticed.
-cbx


----------



## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (cbx)*

Got my car back yesterday after having the ECU reset to "Basic Settings" and it drives great...exactly like it did before the battery was disconnected. If you have a scanner with updated software you should be able to do this yourself (alas, I do not know the exact procedure.) If you have no scanner and live in the North Jersey/NYC area I would love to refer you to the tech who solved this problem for me. But if you are having this "bucking" problem and you know that your battery has been recently disconnected, this is definitely the first thing you should try.
Side note: My tech. told me that if my engine had been completely tuned up and had all new components that the ECU may have automatically reset itself (it would have detected a basically new engine and restored the basic settings). But since my car has over 100K miles and my engine is still full of factory installed parts (







) my ECU freaked out and didn't know what to do. Still, if you're having this problem I think resetting is the way to go.


_Modified by Nazareth33 at 1:26 PM 3-16-2004_


----------



## cbx (Feb 10, 2004)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Nazareth33)*

Huh...I will call my guys and make an appointment...anyone know how long the procedure is to have this done??? I have an appointment at the dealer on a seat issue anyway....I wonder if they could do it while I wait.


----------



## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (cbx)*

Dealer...ugh. My dealer had no idea how to diagnose this problem. It took my tech. less than an hour. The dealer charged me for over 2 hours of diagnostic time and still didn't figure it out. Make sure you tell them exactly what you want them to do...don't let them try to solve the problem themselves.


----------



## cbx (Feb 10, 2004)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Nazareth33)*

ah...welll the vw rep is looking at my seats anyways...I wonder if he will have any explanation...Perhaps I can pick his brain.


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## TurboBucho (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (cbx)*

The g/f's car is back in for the surging and another CEL... this is the 9th time at the dealer in 4 months. I'll post up what they replace this time when she gets it back


----------



## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (TurboBucho)*

Bump


----------



## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Stephbbbb)*

ttt


----------



## cbx (Feb 10, 2004)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Stephbbbb)*

what is TTT??? I got back from the dealer after resetting the codes...havent really had a chance to drive it in all conditions...I will report back on monday.


----------



## redbeast (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (cbx)*

To
The
Top


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (redbeast)*

Went again to the dealership and once again, they found no error codes in my system. They are clueless about the solution. Can any VW Technician chip in and help us out trying to get rid of that annoying problem. Thanks


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Stephbbbb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stephbbbb* »_
Went again to the dealership and once again, they found no error codes in my system. They are clueless about the solution. Can any VW Technician chip in and help us out trying to get rid of that annoying problem. Thanks

just learn to live with it ... i did...been 2 yrs no answer.
Anyways... doesn't happen after cars at normal operating temp.
case closed


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## dubboy1 (Nov 9, 2002)

I've followed this post on and off for a while since I was experiencing the "low speed surge" thing, along with poor mileage, and a slightly rough idle. Cleaned the throttle body, and the idle improved, but the "surge" was still there. Change to the GREEN TOP COOLANT SENSOR, and the car honestly runs better than it did brand new, and bone stock. I highly recommend this to everyone on here. I only paid about $9.00 CDN for the sensor and O-ring, and installed it in about 3 minutes.


----------



## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (dubboy1)*

Bump again


----------



## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

Still looking for a solution


----------



## ID64 (Dec 3, 2003)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

ttt


----------



## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (ID64)*

Bump


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (gtiownerskid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtiownerskid* »_50% throttle, it'll spike up to 20 psi but the car doesnt take off like it normally does, it just sounds like it gets blown out the DV. BTW i have an '01 aww 5 speed. i can pretty much recreate the problem whenever i want to.. happens almost every time

sounds like a leak or some sort right?? DV sounds like it's leaking and is releasing air?
Supposedly normal at part throttle....the DV is suppose to open at part throttle...at least from what I've been told.


----------



## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (dknl)*

Still looking for a solution


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## Shox Boy (Jun 25, 2003)

i am going to the dealer tomorrow to get my car check out for the surge problem and also very rough idle
post any info once i get back from the dealer.


_Modified by Shox Boy at 2:31 PM 4-7-2004_


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## Shox Boy (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: (Shox Boy)*

Got my car back and no more throttle surge, also no more rough idle for now . They cleaned my throttle body and change my filter back to OEM filter. They said it could be the ITG drop-in filter. Which could be the problem. This service advisor knows his stuff and the only one i trust at the dealer, so should be ok.


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

Sometimes my car falls on its nose in first gear under mild acceleration. I go about 1/2 throttle and it boosts up then it falls flat.. and this isnt anywhere near redline.
oh.. 

04 jetta, 1.8T, 450 miles. 5 speed.
bone stock


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

02 jetta 1.8T TIP - I have experienced this exact same problem, it happens everytime I accelerate regardless of engine temp, outside temp. It is just how my car drives. It is annoying though because you have to compensate for it. AHH 
Anyways I took it to the dealer and they had to replace my shifter mechanism because they broke it (long story). The button on the new shifter didn't go in as far as my old one did but my car drove smooth, no surging in gear 1 in between 1000-2000 rpms. I mentioned this to my service guy, he was clueless but he said "thats great!" Then I had to have them fix something else, oh the lights in the shifter column were out, so the tech went digging to connect up the light bulb, then I get my car back (this is one day after the new shifter) and the shifter button goes in all the way now and my car is back to the damn surging it was before. Could it be the transmission or the shifter somehow???


_Modified by 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! at 6:13 PM 4-8-2004_


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## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_Sometimes my car falls on its nose in first gear under mild acceleration. I go about 1/2 throttle and it boosts up then it falls flat.. and this isnt anywhere near redline.
oh.. 

04 jetta, 1.8T, 450 miles. 5 speed.
bone stock

Thats exactly the problem I have been experiencing.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (SlvrBllt)*

TTT


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

TTT


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## TurboBucho (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!* »_20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!

Off subject, but I think you have the longest screen name ever


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (TurboBucho)*

who says long screen names are bad?


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

I got car back from dealer after 40k and new engine wireing harness, the new wiring harness did NOT fix the surging at low rpm's though........


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*

ttt


----------



## grass (Oct 9, 2003)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

bump


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## Tram26 (Oct 4, 2003)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

I have an 03 GTi 1.8 T that I'm having the same problem with but it isn't as serious as everyone eles's though. My Boost gauge goes to 18 psi then to 15. This happens everyday all day. I checked with my friend that is a tech at a dealership and he says that I'm running the right N75 valve, even he doesn't know what the deal is. It is a pain in the ass cause I know I'm running more boost the 15 psi for a fact. You see this is my 2nd 03 with the same mods and I had the same problem with that car also. It used to spike at 20 psi and settle down at 17.5 psi when the throttle body was recalabrated. So I know something isn't right ! Keep me informed of any cures please.


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## makdaddy (Apr 3, 2003)

Tram26, sounds like you are over boosting.
I'm assuming you're chipped with an N75J.
Go to http://www.boostvalve.com and try their over boost kit. 
The problem people are talking about here is the car hesitating at low rpm with partial throttle or shifting in to first gear and either experience a surge in power, or a temporary burst of it.
For the record, I drive a 2000 Jetta, thus 1.8T AWD... On a cold start, sometimes the revs on my car drop to the point where the car dies...
sometimes when I'm backing in to a parking space and am feathering the brake pedal, the car hesitates and rpm's drop... And 75% of the time, when I step on the gas to get the car going, the car jolts forward then goes back to normal? Maybe my chip is too aggressive for my slushbox 4 spd auto?
My theory at the moment is dirty throttle body, but after reading, will prolly try the green temp sensor too.
After purchasing a VW... its true... my car is a jokeswagon... i've been to the dealer countless times for stupid fixes with parts that cost over 400-500 each and am thankful I am covered under the VW Assure warranty. (Guaranteed gonna sell this car when warranty is up).
My salesman came to me and asked how my car was after seeing me a few times. I simply said to him, without care if there were customers... you sold me a lemon... wanna trade? then walked off to the service area to fix something else... He smiled like an idiot with nothing to say.
I've had MAFs go bad, heat fan break down and need complete replacing, front o2 sensor fail, even a cup holder that wouldnt come out; and now hesitation and possibly surging? after some hard driving tonight, the car dived in to limp mode twice...
Cant even enjoy this beautiful weather...
Anyways, gonna try cleaning the throttle body and upgrading the temp sensor from black to green. Let you know how things go.


_Modified by makdaddy at 8:24 AM 4-11-2004_


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## Zeedubya1.8T (Oct 24, 2001)

*Re: THE BATTERY DID IT!! (Nazareth33)*

so whats the noise Ive been hearing about a throttle position sensor? I asked my dealer about this on a hunch a couple years back and they looked at me like I just bit the head off a bat. 
I know German cars of the late '90s have questionable electronics, mostly at the hardware level, could replacing the sensor be of any use? Or is resetting the ECU to basic settings good enough.
If anyone can conretely say that a reset and a green top sensor are enough, ill have both done this week.


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## SGT. CLUTCH (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

I have the same problem on my 03 jetta


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## SGT. CLUTCH (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: (makdaddy)*

Yeah at first i was getting the burst adn now im getting the surge. It goes back and forth


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## VT1.8T (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: (SGT. CLUTCH)*

Another one to report. 03 GTI 5spd, dead spot around 2800 under light acceleration, 32k miles. Seems to have done this since I purchased the car a year ago.


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (VT1.8T)*

TTT http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*

ttt


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## hognozzle (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: (Stephbbbb)*

my car is in for it's 40k service. I too have been experiencing this "jerkiness / intermittant sluggishness".
they just called and said that my throttle body is showing heavy carbon deposits and something about the injectors needing a flushing.
furthermore, the SA stated that VW is now recommending that you do a TB clean and injector flush every 20k. this service is priced at 99 bucks.
any techs out there able to clarify this recent VW recommendation?
i'll let you know how the car feels afterwards.
also, i had 3 misfire codes (no CEL) but i do have J coils... the cause has not yet been determined.
edit: UPDATE:
had 2 j-coils updated to L-coils







what the crap? have they still not gotten it right. just read some posts about L's frying.







we are doomed.
-as for the tb cleaning and stuff, too soon to tell.


_Modified by hognozzle at 8:10 PM 4-21-2004_


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## 1.8T180hp (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (hognozzle)*

I just had my car in for the 40K service performed and my car drives like it did when I drove it off the lot. Still surges though at low rpms. 
The idle is smooth and the car feels very powerful even in stock mode.


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## Stephbbbb (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: (1.8T180hp)*

ttt


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

TTT


----------



## bigmak (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (makdaddy)*

same problems here. 2002.5 jetta 1.8t awp tiptronic. my car on several occasions has had a lot of trouble getting started or staying running. however, once i've been running for a while it gets back to normal. also, when i shift into drive or reverse, it occasionally hesitates and gets jumpy. i thought it might be my transmission (which is also having problems) but i guess it's a combination. keep this thread going!
oh, i have had my coil packs changed.
edit: added coil pack comment.


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## Asskicker (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*








A little late response here but here is a profound answer and it becomes obvious why the mechanics really are stupid at the dealer with thier exclusive computer reader. Low speeds mean more torque between the engine and the mounts. When the engine twists slightly a leak may then open up, such as the air cleaner to throttle body rubber boot. I accidentally replaced the mount once. ON my old 86 it more like dies for a half second then jerks off. Therefore the dealership should always put your car on rollers to do the test properly rather than depend on that stupid scam computer they have. Karma shows that they are over paid but really the manufacturors are responsible for keeping labor underpaid while they score big.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (Asskicker)*

ok my turn to throw in my .02... ok i think alot of us are not talking about the same thing. we have some really random off the wall incidents and we have some that are very common place. yes a faulty part or engine control system could easily be at fault when talking about a 'hesitation'. now i'm experiencing what all the other 1.8t, 5 speed cars are. my mods include a evo fmic, evo cai, evo dv, and ghl 2.5" tb exhaust....no chip yet and stock n75 valve. its got to the point that i can actually make the car surge. by no means does it do it 'by itself'. it has to do with how the car is driven. if i leave from a dead stop and accelerate moderately (not crawling but not drag racing) and then quickly let off the throttle (kinda like i'm going to shift but then not) right as the turbo is starting to build boost (around 2200-2500 rpm) it'll surge. it only does it in 1st and 2nd gear and it does it whether or not the engine is hot or cold. a few months ago i installed the ghl 2.5" tb exhaust. now while i had the stock exhaust on i hardly if ever noticed the surge. after the tb exhaust went on the surging was alot more noticable. the ghl exhaust has a very unique sound and it actually amplifies the surging sound. now if i accelerate slowly, moderately, or even hard with out lifting the throttle, it does not surge at all. i think it really has to do with the dynamics that are inherently incorperated in the turbo, turbo 'ducting', and dv system. its like the engine is really getting ready to put out some power and the turbo is getting into its most efficent point and then the dv opens and its a really sudden change which results in a studder or surge. i saw it posted early and i hate to say it but we might just have to learn how to adapt our driving techniques. if you could find a way to smooth out the vaccumm (i can't spell...sorry) signal that the dv reads then you might have a fix. again this is just my .02....


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## makdaddy (Apr 3, 2003)

Another update, its been quite a while since I posted on this issue and have added some mods to my car, (besides the original J valve, Forge DV, and custom UPsolute chip), i've added a manual boost controller to the loop, and an oil cooler.
Regards to the TB and Injector flush, I had this service done at a total cost of 287CDN, taxes in, and it initially made a big difference for my car. the car was very smooth leaving the dealership and my MPG has gone up too. able to make prolly a good 50-100km more per tank depending on driving style. (so i can avg 550-600km per tank of 55L). 
My service guy at the dealer recommends this service every 40-50k, and begged me to do it this time (hurt my wallet bad, tho). I'm happy that my MPG has gone up and the car has smoothed out a bit, but that initial hesitation is still there.
On a side note, the green temp sensor was done by the dealer under warranty, (the black one failed), or if ur under warranty, just claim the water temp gauge was at 0 for 45min of driving one day. They'll prolly just change it. (20 bux worth of parts).
The hesitation problem at initial start from 0, still there. I got used to it by now, i kinda play with the throttle to help reduce it, but its definately there.
Still dunno whats the cause.


----------



## ijaure (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (makdaddy)*

hi,
did anyone found the solution to the
"Sometimes my car falls on its nose in first gear under mild acceleration." problem
im going crazy about it!!


----------



## ijaure (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (makdaddy)*

hi,
did anyone found the solution to the
"Sometimes my car falls on its nose in first gear under mild acceleration." problem
im going crazy about it!!


----------



## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: (ijaure)*

My does the same in 1st and 2nd gear but also revs by itself when I shift(the harder I accelerate the more it'll rev by itself but not all the time). How can I use vag to do an TBA or reset the settings if I have a CEL (p0420)?

I'm starting to think its the TPS on the throttle body which the whole thing will need to be replaced. It feels sluggish to get the car moving in traffic and my revs seem very floaty when revved in neutral or when clutch is in. This is why I think my TPS is the culprit.
I checked my TB and it was squeeky clean. I just learned to live with it for now.














































_Modified by sh{}e at 3:25 PM 4-24-2006_


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## shah269 (Aug 7, 2003)

Hay guys, did my best to read threw all what 8 pages of posts so excuse me if I missed a few things. I'm a proud parent of two bone stock 1.8T's. One in my 03 Jetta and on in a newly acquired 02New Beetle S both sticks. I've only had the NBS for a few weeks so I haven't seen this "surging" yet but in my Jetta my wife and I have noticed it a number of times. Some times just a little blip in the throttle while waiting at a stop light and other times a serious jolt while stopped at lights. We have thus far not felt this problem while driving. My initial assessment was "bad gas"
so we stopped buying gas at our local Exxon and switched to Shell V-Power (the same stuff I use in my 87 VFR) and that seemed to help things a bit. Next we decided that maybe the injectors were a bit gunky due to the bad gas (at this time the car only had 20k miles on it) so we started using Chevron Techron Fuel Injector Cleaner once every other month. That also helped quite allot. Then one day as I was sitting in the garage waiting for the car to cool down it had a major "surge/ blip". Having a short temper I screamed some expletives at the car and revved and held the engine at 5.5k rpm for close to 30 seconds and then released the throttle. And then the oddest think happened, the car had what could best be described as a cough! It did not smell nor did any partials come out of the exhaust thus that eliminated catalytic converter issues. But ever since then the car has behaved her self very well. Further more since my wife and I usually only drive the surface roads (non high way) roads to work we've decided that every week end we will take the cars out for a little high speed highway fun. Where we late shift all the way till 5k rpms to reach highway speeds and thus far that has kept the problem for returning. 
So what could it have been? Dirty fuel injectors? Dirty or stuck butterfly valve? dirty valves? dirty turbo vanes? who knows!
I've spoken with my VW rep and they feel that the car could have had dirty injectors but to be on the safe side they checked the ECU and reset it. 
And so far so good. 
So here is my advice, Chevron Techron Fuel Injector Cleaner, V-Power and rev the hell out of her slowly.


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## shah269 (Aug 7, 2003)

FYI!
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage...0.jpg
OEM Coolant Temperature Sensor with O-Ring
Revised Green 4 pin sensor. Replaces faulty black style. Before ordering, check existing sensor color.
Complete kit includes revised style temperature sensor with new o-ring. Easy to install. Resolves running issues for many owners who are still using the original black sensor which had a high failure rate.
WARNING:Installation is simple but keep this in mind. You are working with a high pressure cooling system. Before starting work make sure the engine is absolutely cool. This could mean letting the car sit for several hours before starting work. Installation for VW MKIV:First remove the blue coolant reservoir cap to release any pressure that may be in the system. Tighten the blue cover back; this will help create a vacuum in the system that will reduce lost coolant while replacing the sensor. Next remove the forward engine cover by twisting the three release screws 90°. With the forward cover removed the coolant sensor will be visible on the driver’s side of the engine. Remove the retaining clip with a flat blade screw driver. Pull the sensor out and remove the o-ring that may still be in the coolant line. Press in the new sensor replace the clip.
I allways knew these guys rocked! 
Well time to oder! 
and what $5.95! Thats a steal!


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## shah269 (Aug 7, 2003)

ttt
so whats the deal? Who has changed the temp sensor? and has it fixed the hick up issues?


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## mconfes (Aug 12, 2005)

*Re: (shah269)*

I have 03 1.8T Jetta Manual with the same issue: cold start hesistation. I've had this car since 40K miles and the problem started not too long after I purchased - 50-60K. Now I'm at 91K. 
Around 80K miles I started getting the bucking bronco and rough idle. Sometimes the car will also almost die during cold start take off. It's almost like a spark plug wire is bad or I'm running out of gas. I've had one of the coil packs replaced, plugs (didn't put NGK back in - could've been a mistake) and fuel filter. 
It seems like the outside weather temp and humidity play a factor in whether or not the problem occurs. This makes it sound like an electrical issue - like bad computer. 
I guess since VW is so useless with this (and most service issues) I'll try the coolant sensor, reset the computer and throttle sensor, clean the throttle body and maybe even change the plugs back to NGK platinum. 
However, even if it does work I'll still have almost 100K on this car and definitely time to sell. It's been a pretty damn good car but with all of the service issues I read about it's just a matter of time because I get hit with a huge repair bill. 
I doubt I'll buy another VW because of the service issue. I'd rather pay more for a Lexus or BMW and get great service after the sale. 
I'll be sure to let you guys know if I make any progress with the subject issue. 
BTW, great site and forum.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: (mconfes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mconfes* »_I have 03 1.8T Jetta Manual with the same issue: cold start hesistation. I've had this car since 40K miles and the problem started not too long after I purchased - 50-60K. Now I'm at 91K. 
Around 80K miles I started getting the bucking bronco and rough idle. Sometimes the car will also almost die during cold start take off. It's almost like a spark plug wire is bad or I'm running out of gas. I've had one of the coil packs replaced, plugs (didn't put NGK back in - could've been a mistake) and fuel filter. 
It seems like the outside weather temp and humidity play a factor in whether or not the problem occurs. This makes it sound like an electrical issue - like bad computer. 
I guess since VW is so useless with this (and most service issues) I'll try the coolant sensor, reset the computer and throttle sensor, clean the throttle body and maybe even change the plugs back to NGK platinum. 
However, even if it does work I'll still have almost 100K on this car and definitely time to sell. It's been a pretty damn good car but with all of the service issues I read about it's just a matter of time because I get hit with a huge repair bill. 
I doubt I'll buy another VW because of the service issue. I'd rather pay more for a Lexus or BMW and get great service after the sale. 
I'll be sure to let you guys know if I make any progress with the subject issue. 
BTW, great site and forum. 

Don't feel bad. I'm putting my 05 on sale and taking a loss because nobody can figure out why it over revs on its own in between shifts and the cause of my floaty revs. Since I'm not throwing codes VW won't replace the TB which I know is the problem.
I didnt pay for a car so that I dont enjoy it. Car is great but I've spent numerous times at the dealership and this car is not even a year old.


_Modified by sh{}e at 4:19 PM 4-27-2006_


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## PyroInferno (Apr 28, 2006)

*You guys too, diesel f-350's do the same thing*

In the land of Diesel Turbo F-350's or any ford superduty we have this funny little thing called turbo-stall or turbo-lag. It's when the turbo is spooling up, and for some reason or another the factory wheel stalls out, some physics lesson or something I missed. To correct this, superduty owners buy what is called a wicked wheel. It has a different fin design correcting the stall. I'm not saying this is the absolute answer but when I read through the Diesel forums and this the descriptions are almost the same. Hope that gives some insight.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: You guys too, diesel f-350's do the same thing (PyroInferno)*

Can you reset the ecu to basic settings with VAG? What do you guys mean basic settings especially if you're chipped?
I had my battery disconnected and a week later this started happening. Either TPS is gone or my TBA is out of whack.


_Modified by sh{}e at 3:10 PM 4-28-2006_


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## 02VWGTI (Apr 24, 2003)

I need to know as well. I had my battery out for 2 days and i think the frequency of problems increased. i can watch my boost gauge get almost to boost and then it drops like to -10 on vacuum and then back to -5 or 0 
this is really starting to suck.


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## tehJR (Jan 3, 2005)

Just want to add my 2 cents:
A month ago I suddenly started getting really bad misfires and jerking one day. The CEL came on, then started flashing. I got the car towed right away to my mechanic.
We replaced the wiring harness (the covering on the wires was split and the bare wire was exposed). We also replaced the stock DV, and a hose (can't remember which on off the top of my head)
The car ran great after those fixes. It still didn't feel perfect though. I cleaned the MAF in 99% alcohol which seemed to help. A week later, I got a CEL and the car was rough on idle and not running very well. I replaced the MAF and that fixed the problem.
I've started to notice this surging issue on my car now. It never did it before all this work was done. It only happens in first at very low RPMs, if I rev a little higher while starting in first, it doesn't happen. Only when I'm barely rolling in first then slowly accelerate.
Hopefully we can find a fix soon, it's really annoying!
I have a 2001 Golf GLS 1.8T AWW engine.


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## wannabea20v (Mar 1, 2004)

*Re: (tehJR)*

Same exact problem! does anyone have a clue as to how to solve this? 01 jetta aww, already changed spark plugs, coil packs, MAF, taped wires up too. Is this a throttle problem, if so how do you you clean it?


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## forcefedjetta (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: (wannabea20v)*

i have not experienced this problem yet. however i do drive the car very hard every day and during the summer i go through at least 30 gallons of 104 octane unleaded race gas and only 93 octane during regular fill ups. i have read that other people use 91-93 octane on a regular basis and still have this problem. making me think my daily flogging has kept me from having this problem. just my .02


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## custom66 (Feb 7, 2005)

HAs anyone gotten any good solutions to this problem it seems like many of us have it any help is greatly appreciated. please im me


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## Famous337 (Jan 20, 2007)

*Re: (custom66)*

let me know as well.... got the same problem


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## casperiv (Dec 5, 2006)

Well we can add my 01 Wolfsburg 5 speed to the list.
It's so strange, feels like you basically uncork the turbo system for a sec. It's like the boost drops instantly, power goes away, and comes back without any reason. I'm getting really good and compensating with the clutch and gas, but it almost got me run over one morning.
The thing that gets me is that if I leave it in gear and let it do it, the engine doesn't seem to bind on it's self, it's like it just goes limp and comes back. If it was an automatic I would think I had a bad torque converter from the feel of it. The randomness gets me too, sometimes I don't have a clue it's going to do it.


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## custom66 (Feb 7, 2005)

someone has gotta have found a resolution to this, if so pleeeeeaaaassssseee share it, im getting tired of it


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## ricecopvwdave (Jan 7, 2005)

If anyone in south florida has this issue (doubtful) let me take a look at it. I would like to take a crack at it.


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## DJKeebler (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (casperiv)*


_Quote, originally posted by *casperiv* »_Well we can add my 01 Wolfsburg 5 speed to the list.
It's so strange, feels like you basically uncork the turbo system for a sec. It's like the boost drops instantly, power goes away, and comes back without any reason. I'm getting really good and compensating with the clutch and gas, but it almost got me run over one morning.
The thing that gets me is that if I leave it in gear and let it do it, the engine doesn't seem to bind on it's self, it's like it just goes limp and comes back. If it was an automatic I would think I had a bad torque converter from the feel of it. The randomness gets me too, sometimes I don't have a clue it's going to do it.

Does your exhaust make a different sound when this happens? I've been having something similar at partial throttle. When I get going from a stop and slowly give it gas, it's almost like there's no power. At first I thought it was lag but it doesn't do it all the time.


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## VeeDubbinJetta91 (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: (DJKeebler)*

so i didnt wanna read through all 9 pages but my car does the exact same thing and it annoys the hell out of me







ive noticed when it happens and i look at my boost gauge it will go from say -10in hg and instantly jump to 5psi boost then instantly back to -10in hg and the car will surge/lunge dramatically when it happens...hasnt always done it but its been doing it for at least the past 8 months...is there a fix for this yet or everybody still working on it?


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## hucklebuck (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: (VeeDubbinJetta91)*

Mine did this for two days and after a maf,coilpackd,5 boost leak checks and no check engine light,i found my map sensor wires had gotten into the pully on the alternator. Ate into two of them. Fixed the wires and reset the ecu and hasnt been an issue since. May not be an answer for all of you but it helped mine.


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## meinschnell (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (jlam)*

by this do u mean when u accerate it jsut kinda feels like the car stops acceleating for like 1 sec and then continues, liek u hear spooling and then it almost cuts or naw?


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## YAS (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (hghpsigti)*

My car does this as well but only on cold start ups.. They told me its a faulty temp sender... I changed this and the problem stopped...
faulty engine temps sender so the management does not know what to fuel and time. Get it on a VAG and see if the temp reads ok. 
Remember the display on the dash and the one the management sees are not the same...
Depending on your car's year model , it most prob came with the black temp sender unit . Vw only changed the part if you complained . The superceded part is green in color - with new o-ring


_Modified by YAS at 3:59 AM 3-2-2007_


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## MyGolf18t (Mar 23, 2001)

*Re: 1.8T Throttle Surge At Very Low Speeds - VW NOW INVOLVED (YAS)*

I had the exact same problem before. it was the TBA "Throttle Body Alignment". I unhook my battery when i replaced my MAF sensor a few days ago and that's when i notice the problem.
Thanks to fellow member Aguilar and his VAG-COM I got this problem solved.


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## jar_bond (Oct 8, 2006)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_if i watch my vac/boost gauge this is what happens....i will start to accelerate lightly and the vac gauge will come up to about 10inHG and then it will snap up to 0 and the car will lung and then snap back down to 10 and behave like normal.
whats even weider is that it does it so violently...you can NOT recreate this feeling by jerking around w/ the gas pedal..

_Modified by mwwhonda at 7:30 PM 1-7-2004_

i have the same issue...wahts the fix?!


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (jar_bond)*

OK You can add me to this list as well. This just started happening yesterday. I came out of work and was in heavy stop and go traffic. It would hesitate in first gear after starting from a stop. Idle would dip and then correct itself.


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