# freezing piont



## frostythesnowguy (Nov 28, 2008)

im looking into hitting my 1 8 up with a little water/meth love. Only question is at what temp does that water methanol mixture freeze at (if it does at all) im just wondering if I should wait till spring or not.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

At 50:50 water/meth mine froze up last week...I don't know how cold it was but I think it dropped to about 9 degrees at one point.
I'm just running -20 washer fluid for now.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

weird. i havent seen mine freeze up yet


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

It was bizarre...I looked down at my front passenger corner, and just like you would have a clump of snow built up, I had a clump of blue slush hanging off of the front valence.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

sounds like a weak mix. not only that, im not sure how you have leaks? did you crack your delivery hose?
50 50 heet and distilled. or boost juice only. you really cant rely on washer fluid to do the best job possible. do you go to bargain discount gas stations?


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (SDKMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_sounds like a weak mix. not only that, im not sure how you have leaks? did you crack your delivery hose?
50 50 heet and distilled. or boost juice only. you really cant rely on washer fluid to do the best job possible. do you go to bargain discount gas stations?

the leak was from the fluid freezing and expanding the washer fluid tank, thus causing a leak through the fluid level sensor gasket.
no, i don't go to discount gas stations, and you can eat a dick. i'm trying to be helpful, you're an *******.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

im just saying why would you put washer fluid through your motor if you dont go to cheapo gas stations. just fyi ninnywad....your juice wont freeze if you mix it right. 
OP...do worry about ice. maybe slush but if you know what you are doing you wont end up like DIAF with broken ish.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

Yes it will freeze. If it's slushing, it's freezing.
At the time mine happened I wasn't driving the car every day, so it had a bit more time to freeze since it wasn't being moved around or warmed by the underhood temps.
Yes, it can freeze. Also, everything went back to the shape it was in prior, as it was a rubber gasket that let go. I don't have any leaks now.
I think you should do some more question asking and less assuming SDKMF.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

lol. i dont need to ask questions but if you would like me to then lets get into why your mix freezes and mine doesnt. 
1) Do you use washer fluid?
2) Do you know what the meth to water ratio is?
3) Do you then dilute your mix?
4) I havent driven my car in months and I am further north then you. I have seen a few Zero degree days and my proper mix hasnt slushed or frozen yet (knocks on wood). Can you explain this?
5) Why is it that since I contradict you, you must call me names and postulate more arguments? Do you feel threatened or wrong?


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (SDKMF)*

do you have the msds sheet for your washer fluid so you can be sure it doesnt contain other additives as well?


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (SDKMF)*

most of those washer fluids are 30-40% methanol. if you dilute that further, then of course you will freeze.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (SDKMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_lol. i dont need to ask questions but if you would like me to then lets get into why your mix freezes and mine doesnt. 
1) Do you use washer fluid? *yes*
2) Do you know what the meth to water ratio is? *yes*
3) Do you then dilute your mix? *If by dilute you mean add water, no, if you mean add methanol, yes *
4) I havent driven my car in months and I am further north then you. I have seen a few Zero degree days and my proper mix hasnt slushed or frozen yet (knocks on wood). Can you explain this? *underwear gnomes probably*
5) Why is it that since I contradict you, you must call me names and postulate more arguments? Do you feel threatened or wrong?*it was your condescension in your first post.*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_do you have the msds sheet for your washer fluid so you can be sure it doesnt contain other additives as well?

I got it when I bought my last case. That was a good 6 months ago at this point...

_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_most of those washer fluids are 30-40% methanol. if you dilute that further, then of course you will freeze.

Again, I add methanol to make it a 50:50 mix.
On all of that topic, come spring, I'll be running pure distilled water, as alcohol isn't allowed at autocrosses. I can't run pure water in the winter for obvious reasons.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

you can type all you want. you are all hype otherwise. 
and you are a liar if you tell me you are mixing meth with washer fluid. that is the dumbest ish ever.
if you can buy straight meth then use it, not that crap washer fluid that you do not have the MSDS sheet for. 
to the OP, dont listen to the nonsense coming from this poster.
Buy your meth from Summit racing. Its called Boost Juice. You wont have moronic problems.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

My setup says it's not all hype.
Also, you should do a little research, and not be a vortex know-it-all. Washer fluid is commonly injected in water alcohol systems because it is readily available and reliable. You think that they don't mix precise batches of this stuff? Really?
Why would it be dumb to add in more methanol to bring up the mixture to an even 50:50? -20 washer fluid is nothing more than distilled water + methanol + blue dye.
You don't even make any sense.
Just another poortex know-it-all.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

If you are going to the trouble of sourcing methanol you would know you can't easily get it in less the 5 gallon qty's. at 5 gallons x2 for the addition of the water you get 10 gallons of juice. Meth here for 5 gallons is ~$45. 5 Gallons of distilled is ~$5 for a whopping total of $50 bucks. thats $5 a gallon. 10 gallons will last me about 10 gas fill ups. thats alot of alcohol mix. you can not make it safer or cheaper then that with washer fluid. and you also probably wouldnt source methanol and then also use washer fluid. that sounds pretty counter productive.
please post the msds sheet of your washer fluid and your additional mix of meth. I am curious what you know if I am the know it all......


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DIAF* »_My setup says it's not all hype.

 thats why it froze over and pissed everywhere? im glad you caught that before you drove on it.....


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (SDKMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_If you are going to the trouble of sourcing methanol you would know you can't easily get it in less the 5 gallon qty's. at 5 gallons x2 for the addition of the water you get 10 gallons of juice. Meth here for 5 gallons is ~$45. 5 Gallons of distilled is ~$5 for a whopping total of $50 bucks. thats $5 a gallon. 10 gallons will last me about 10 gas fill ups. thats alot of alcohol mix. you can not make it safer or cheaper then that with washer fluid. and you also probably wouldnt source methanol and then also use washer fluid. that sounds pretty counter productive.
please post the msds sheet of your washer fluid and your additional mix of meth. I am curious what you know if I am the know it all......

Strauss sells 99.9% methanol as a generic alternative to "HEET". They also sell it on sale, allowing you to pick up quantities much smaller than 5 gallons at a time for a nice and easy price.
I've got nothing to prove to you. If you want to come out to an Autox, I'll show you how well the system works.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

You dont have anything to prove to me and I really dont care about you. I just wanted to make sure the OP gets factual information.
So in the OP's interest, why dont you post your recipe


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

-20 Windshield Washer Fluid - 30% methanol, 70 % distilled water - Per the MSDS
1 gallon of washer fluid = 128 ounces
So we have 38.4 ounces of methanol and 89.6 ounces of distilled water.
We want a 50:50 mix, so we add in 51.2 ounces of methanol (just over 4 bottles of gas line anti-freeze).
You then have 89.6 ounces of methanol and 89.6 ounces of distilled water.
Because I stocked up when everything was on sale, I'm making it for about $3.50 a gallon.
any more questions smart guy?



_Modified by DIAF at 1:12 PM 2-2-2009_


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

Im sure the OP will appreciate your honesty. Its now up to him to decide if he wants to use your mix. I know I wont.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

Don't....it's not like my feelings are going to be hurt by you making the same thing out of the same chemicals for more money.
You need to learn that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and the grassroots way is often just as if not more effective than the high-dollar way, in this case it's identical.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

I still have yet to see any MSDS sheets from any of you washer fluid advocators. I am not willing to put detergents through my motor.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (SDKMF)*

does google not work in connecticut? msds are available from each manufacturer online. 
stop being so holier-than-thou and start getting educated.
friggin' moron.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*MSDS Info*


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

that is a cute little link you got there. haha








unfortunately i only found one msds sheet that seemed to tell me what I needed. I looked at about 8 so i was not exhaustive. the one i saw showed what you said. but the others showed many different additives as well as isopropyl alcohol which is not good. 
still seems retarded to me.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (SDKMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_that is a cute little link you got there. haha








unfortunately i only found one msds sheet that seemed to tell me what I needed. I looked at about 8 so i was not exhaustive. the one i saw showed what you said. but the others showed many different additives as well as isopropyl alcohol which is not good. 
still seems retarded to me.

Here's a whole forum saying you don't know your ******* from your elbow.: http://www.alcohol-injection.c...tures/


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

Lol, since when is Devils Own the standard?


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

You'll find the same comments on Aquamist's board, as well as on every other manufacturer's board, and in any forum where they talk about it.
You have added nothing to this conversation except for pot shots and sniping...no data, no relevant info, just trolling.
Face it, you fail. DIAF>SDKMF.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (SDKMF)*

Lets try an experiment. You put your fluid in the freezer and record what it does. I will do the same. 
I really dont understand you. FACT: IF YOUR SH IT IS FREEZING, THEN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (SDKMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_Lets try an experiment. You put your fluid in the freezer and record what it does. I will do the same. 
I really dont understand you. FACT: IF YOUR SH IT IS FREEZING, THEN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

You fail to understand the repercussions of evaporation as well. A mixture of water and alcohol is continuously becoming more biased towards the water as the alcohol evaporates at a rate much quicker than water.
Fact: If you're SDKMF, you're a retard. It'll freeze quite a bit...and if you look around, you'll see that it's happened to many other people as the mixture evaporates.
Let's talk more facts: you say you haven't driven your car for long periods of time in the cold, yet it's never frozen. How do you know? Are you out there checking it each morning?
Another fact: If you're using a gallon of water meth for every 12 gallons of gas, you're doing it wrong. Either you drive WOT everywhere you go, or you're doing nothing but lapping days, or you're injecting far too much water/alcohol into your engine.
Everything you've said in this thread proves that you know nothing about the topic except that you can buy a water-meth at a ridiculous markup directly from a manufacturer.
You lose this round mouth-breather...find another topic that you might know something about.



_Modified by DIAF at 9:27 AM 2-3-2009_


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

hahahaha. something really got under your skin. you crack me up because you are only making hypocritical statements. you are fighting for personal vengence right now. thats pretty amusing.
i am torn, because i can answer or counter everyone of your cracks and comments. but then i give you fuel to twist and contort everything i say. 
my car is naturally aspirated. yes i do drive WOT alot. my car has also seen 0 degree temps for days of not running and it does not have any "broken gaskets."








only i know what i know. you dont know anything about that.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

I'm not saying anything hypocritical at all. I run water meth, I brew my own, and I'm relaying the results to an OP who's asking questions.
You have done nothing but be contrarian the entire time, offering nothing of value at any point in this thread.
As for what you know, you don't know squat, or you wouldn't have wasted good money building an N/A VR up to make chipped 1.8t power levels.
I'm not twisting anything you say, i'm just pointing out how little you know, and how little you bring to the table. If you want to dispute it, go ahead. All you've done so far is prove that you're just another punk kid with more dollars than sense.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

lol did i piss in your Cheerios?


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (SDKMF)*

its too bad no one else is here telling you that their mix doesnt freeze. or for that matter there isnt anyone in here telling us that their mix will freeze. I guess the whole thing is a mute point. It must be a NJ thing. 
ps, when you are ready to show us that you know something....please let it rip.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

what the hell are you talking about?
I've shown that I understand the composition of washer fluid, and how to use it as an inexpensive base for a 50:50 water meth mix.
You've shown that you know nothing other than to be contrarian.
As I said, come to any autox in NJ/NY and I'll show you that I built a car that can perform.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

Dude, you still are dumb enough to not understand. If your mix really is 50:50 water and methyl alcohol, it would NOT freeze at 9 degrees.
After all, the washer fluid wont freeze till -20. So please, WTF


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (SDKMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_Dude, you still are dumb enough to not understand. If your mix really is 50:50 water and methyl alcohol, it would NOT freeze at 9 degrees.
After all, the washer fluid wont freeze till -20. So please, WTF


The Methanol evaporates over time, which results in a stronger water concentration in comparison to the alcohol.
For people who don't drive like asshats at WOT all the time, this is a reality. When I mix it, it's 50:50. Evaporation weakens the mixture over time.
That's TF. As for still retarded, what have you added of substance to this conversation at all? Retarded is building a 12V VR6 for N/A performance...what are you making, 200 whp?


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

Im not sure when this turned into a mine is bigger then yours thread. If you are interested in my car and build, you can search it. I have posted plenty in this forum alone, let alone on vortex.
How long has your car been sitting in the cold? A few months? The cold slows evaporation in case you forgot. 
I have been parked for 4 months now. Evaporation must have occured. I still dont freeze up buddy.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (SDKMF)*

albeit at a different rate, dont forget water evaporates too!


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (SDKMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_Im not sure when this turned into a mine is bigger then yours thread. If you are interested in my car and build, you can search it. I have posted plenty in this forum alone, let alone on vortex.
How long has your car been sitting in the cold? A few months? The cold slows evaporation in case you forgot. 
I have been parked for 4 months now. Evaporation must have occured. I still dont freeze up buddy.

It's a "you don't know what you're talking about thread"....since you're in CT, you must be aware that we've had some pretty wild weather patterns in the past few months, warm days followed by very cold spells. I'm not the only person that this has happened to, as you could see if your dumb ass knew how to google. The sum of this thread is: something happened, you deny it, you're wrong.
I did search your project...I didn't see any results.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

You didnt search hard enough. Im sure the other people with freezing issues are mixing washer fluid aswell.








I dont understand all of your post, but honestly do you think this needs to go on? You have done nothing to validate yourself as smart to me. You are not going to change that opinion.
FYI, I dont care enough to search you out, nor do i know what you drive or have. I also remember being the one who had to coax the good info out of you. You wanted to turn this into a pissing match at square one.


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

You didn't coax anything out of me...I responded to the OP, and you doubted it. You doubted reality.
You doubted reality.
You doubted reality.
That's the issue. I'm done with this thread now...you're about as smart as a bag full of door knobs. Enjoy your slow car.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (DIAF)*

Finally!


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (SDKMF)*

Just wanted to reiterate
Well, I found some info on this and I thought I would share: 
Methanol \ Water Mixtures 
Methanol Conc. 
Wt. % (Vol.%)---Freezing Point,F(C)---Flash Point, (TCC) F(C) 
0(0)--------------- 32(0)--------------- No Flash 
10(13)----------- 20(-7)-------------- 130(54) 
20(24)----------- 0(-18)-------------- 110(43) 
30(35)------------ -15(-26)------------ 95(35) 
40(46)------------ -40(-40)------------ 85(29) 
50(56)------------ -65(-54)------------ 75(24) 
60(66)------------ -95(-71)------------ 70(21) 
70(75)------------ -215(<-73)---------- 60(16) 
80(83)------------ -225(<-73)---------- 55(13) 
90(92)------------ -230(<-73)---------- 55(13) 
100(100)---------- -145(<-73)---------- 55(13) 
Isopropanol / Water Mixtures 
IPA Conc. Vol. % (Wt.)--Freezing Point, F(C)----Flash Point, (TCC) F (C) 
0(0)---------------------- 32(0)------------------ No Flash 
10(8)--------------------- 25(-4)----------------- 105 (41) 
20(17)--------------------- 20(-7)----------------- 85 (29) 
30(26)--------------------- 5(-15)----------------- 75 (24) 
40(34)--------------------- 0(-18)----------------- 70 (21) 
50(44)--------------------- -5(-21)---------------- 65 (18) 
60(54)--------------------- -10(-23)--------------- 65 (18) 
70(65)-------------------- -20(-29)--------------- 65 (18) 
80(76)-------------------- -35(-37)--------------- 65 (18) 
90(88)-------------------- -70(-57)--------------- 65 (18) 
100(100)------------------ -130(<-73)------------- 53 (12)
copied from http://www.aquamist.co.uk


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (DIAF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DIAF* »_
no, i don't go to discount gas stations, and you can eat a dick. i'm trying to be helpful, you're an *******.

That's totally uncalled for.
Anyway I use Boostjuice and even at -1F it didn't freeze.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (IzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IzVW* »_
That's totally uncalled for.
Anyway I use Boostjuice and even at -1F it didn't freeze.
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanks for the info and bump!


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

This thread is stupid, and sdkmf is an idiot. Get lost your not helping anything. Everyone but you knows washer fluid is a good injection product. It even says so on snow performances website. Err, I think it's them. It could be another company I forget. During the winter I to inject washer fluid. -30 with no soap and roughly 50% pure meth. Guessing that's bout 80/20 and there is zero difference between my 80/20 mix in the summer to my mix in the winter. Oh summer mix is 80/20 meth and regular old tap water. I feakin hate texer know it alls.


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: (velocity196)*


_Quote, originally posted by *velocity196* »_ I feakin hate texer know it alls. 
 [email protected]


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## frostythesnowguy (Nov 28, 2008)

I was just looking for "naw it wont freeze" or "think warm cause that ****s gonna freeze" 
this didn't need to be a 2 page long deal


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## number1275 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (SDKMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDKMF* »_I am not willing to put detergents through my motor.

I lol'd.


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