# 100 Yards into new turbo, large pop and no boost.



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*EDIT & UPDATE: The pop was the turbo literally blowing up inside, making it 100 yards from a brand new install, read below and enjoy the carnage*
The badge is not a triangle with the KKK in it but labeled: KK3 









20v AEB 1.8T
I installed a brand new Borg Warner Ko4-015, after a couple 10 minute idles and settle coast around the property I took her out on the street......I made it 100 yards into a very gradual boost ~5/8psi with out flooring it or nailing the throttle, and pop! No boost. 
She will not go above vacuum, there are no nosies, metal grinding or other wise at idle or revving. I did however pull the induction hose to fell the cold side turbine.......she does not spin freely but can be spun with ease (it turns with ease but does not spin freely). 
-Revs fine
-Vacuums fine
-No boost/exhaust leaks
-No Codes
-Sounds perfect flickering the throttle at idle
-No Noises
Just bogs down if attempting to accelerate over vacuum. 









*It's current state, blurry but can't see oil*








_Modified by The A1 and A2 German at 12:31 AM 3-7-2010_


_Modified by The A1 and A2 German at 10:46 PM 3-10-2010_


----------



## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Sounds like an intercooler pipe came off or a blown coupler


----------



## rstrf16 (Nov 15, 2006)

yeah check ur piping


----------



## BoostedDubVR6T420 (Dec 4, 2009)

X7 on the IC piping. Scared the crap out of me the first time.


----------



## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

*Re: (BoostedDubVR6T420)*

dido on IC piping fix it now before you get somewhere far away and have one go on ya.


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

first time i popped a tube it was when first hitting 15 psi on my first turbo setup , popped in a blind spot (couldnt see it ) friggin scared the **** out of me , big pop , a metal on metal soud (steel piping hitting the rad support while poppin) , radical power drop . freaked me out quite a bit.
bed roller ftw !!!


----------



## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeOpLeG60T* »_
bed roller ftw !!!

You mean bead roller








Mine popped off in a very visible place...and dented the hood from underneath








Mike


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: (FaelinGL)*

woops ! dents are uncool 
and yeah Bead ... typo
i dont even have one myself would look better than mig pass but whatever ... its under the couplers


----------



## 1.BillyT (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: 100 Yards into new turbo, large pop and no boost. (The A1 and A2 German)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The A1 and A2 German* »_
Just bogs down if attempting to accelerate over vacuum. 


Boost leak... for sure.


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: 100 Yards into new turbo, large pop and no boost. (1.BillyT)*

The turbo does not spin or spool period while driving that car. 
I've had this system for ~3 years, the only coupling for the turbo I touched for install was the cold charged side and have reinstalled and inspected it 3 times. 
I've gone throught the system, the turbo went from spinning freely to not after the bang.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: 100 Yards into new turbo, large pop and no boost. (The A1 and A2 German)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The A1 and A2 German* »_The turbo does not spin or spool period while driving that car. 


How do you know this???? (spinning) Can you spin the compressor by hand? than it spins when your engine is running.... it does not 'spool' probably because there is some leak, and it can not push enough air to over come that leak and build pressure...
Most likely you have a leak somewhere...many of us have had this problem in the past. Do a pressure test on your piping system.
If that is not the problem, than perhaps your WG is stuck open for some strange reason...
Gluck


_Modified by GTijoejoe at 11:44 AM 2-27-2010_


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: 100 Yards into new turbo, large pop and no boost. (The A1 and A2 German)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The A1 and A2 German* »_The turbo does not spin or spool period while driving that car. 
I've had this system for ~3 years, the only coupling for the turbo I touched for install was the cold charged side and have reinstalled and inspected it 3 times. 
I've gone throught the system, the turbo went from spinning freely to not after the bang. 

*so then what made the bang?* a turbo stopping from spinning does not make a bang, unless it jammed. if that was the case, there would be signs of that carnage.


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

try to turn it by hand !!


----------



## 92g60gti (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeOpLeG60T* »_try to turn it by hand !!


_Quote, originally posted by *The A1 And A2 German* »_I did however pull the induction hose to fell the cold side turbine.......*she does not spin freely but can be spun with ease (it turns with ease but does not spin freely).*


----------



## S3.2 (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: (92g60gti)*

That pop you heard was an IC pipe popping out!
Pressure check your system, you can't see everything with your eyes!


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: (92g60gti)*

if its not a ball bearing it wont spin freely with cold oil


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeOpLeG60T* »_if its not a ball bearing it wont spin freely with cold oil

Bingo, its not going to spin like a top, it will have lots of drag (rolling friction).


----------



## stevegt21 (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*

Make sure the Waste gate bar behind the turbo is still on. The nuts should have a clamp holding them together. I had a similiar problem on my b5 Passat. I put the turbo in and the nuts holding the wastegate actuator came loose and off ( i didnt have the clamp on), and the waste gate stayed open and car made no boost.


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (stevegt21)*

Car is smoking! 
I can only place my beat on bad turbo seals or a stuck/broken waste gate. 
Next chance I get I'm pulling the test pipe to inspect the hot side.
Noticed a fare amount of smoke exiting the exhaust on drives and revs......hopefully I'm running hella rich* and it's simply the result.
(*On that note...my B5 has a AWE GIAC tuned kit, so it turn in does not run rich nor lean and in 100% perfect order as a manufacturers complete turbo kit should run, and not a custom self tune).


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (The A1 and A2 German)*


----------



## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*FV-QR*

nom nom nom. Where did you get that turbo?


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (KubotaPowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubotaPowered* »_nom nom nom. Where did you get that turbo?


http://www.audizine.com/classi...at=21
And I made a thread regarding it's authenticity due to the overwhelming volume of install problems:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4779247
And it comes to mind the EVERY single turbo regardless of manufacture I've had, has had generally either the blue or red, marked off indicator mark on the compressor inlet nuts......this does not. 
This either was NEVER balanced as it does not have the signature of a balanced turbine or it's one of the infamous, and possible rumored to be, Chinese Borg Warner Badged Fake:
No balance check mark:


----------



## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*

damn dude that really sucks. i was thinking it was a coupler being loose as well. sometimes they'll pop but not be noticeably off.


----------



## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

*Re: (The A1 and A2 German)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The A1 and A2 German* »_

























Holly ****ing ****!!!!


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

been 10 days now , found the problem yet ???


----------



## toplessvw (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*

the problem is the guy sold him a knock off K04, the first sign is the turbo plate,. the logo is wrong and the info looks to be engraved by hand and not lazer etched like origional, there are no ballancing or testing marks, on the turbo, most of the new K04 I have seen have green in the impeller and blue on the wastegate


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: (toplessvw)*

woah i dont know why i didnt saw the pics , probably didnt refreshed the page , man this is ugly


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*

And the seller isn't responding.

And yes, I believe some of the etching is done by hand.


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

with no grind marks on the compressor axle nut it says it all ....







friggin copycats its so effin frustrating 
i got screwed last year buying a pair of DJ headphones from a guy on craigslist... friggin SAME exact packaging same stripe of tape but they felt pretty ligth and weak so i went to look for some knock off history on google... damn.... they do copy this stuff pretty good nowadays. guy never answered back , ****er... 
did it damaged anything else ???


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*

No...not that I'm aware of....I'm sure there's an oz or two of shards in the exhaust system however I'm not worried.

However since it blew the seals I was dumping oil in to the system. I was doing a pretty good job of attempting to look like I was on fire while driving, so I blocked the oil line and capped the turbo and now running dry (after I've found and removed the exhaust turbine and aware the turbos shot). 
I'm a little concerned as there's still the compressor turbine, however simply spinning on vacuum, so at this point I don't care about it seizing but actually chewing itself up through the intake.
I don't know if I made this aware...however I still have to drive around on my awesome ~70hp 1.8 non T, till I find a replacement.


----------



## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

Just remove the compressor wheel and whats left of the shaft...


----------



## autocross16vrocco (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

Someone was hungry. You sure nothing was dropped in there? That is impressive really in a really sad way.
Sorry man.


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

if you have some wire length on the MAF i'd say put the air filter and maf housing rigth at the intake but if you dont , take off the 6 hex bolts from the compressor housing and just jam something soft in sandwich to keep the compressor wheel to spin because if you just pull the wheel with the shaft you gonna leave a quarter inch hole open in between the exhaust and intake .... but i guess it isnt really bad ..... maybe gonna hear it a little bit , and i dont know if the maf will code with this kinda unwanted "EGR·" i wouldnt
or maybe unscrew the nut , take the wheel and leave the shaft in there... it wont spin but might get pushed out from the exhaust gases , unless the hot side is damaged enough to not poke thru.
friggin sucks man


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*

E-Mailed Borg Warner 
-Considering it's fake, it'll give me ammo for a Paypal dispute
-Considering it's real, it'll give me ammo that was released to the public not balanced.

E-mail:

Hello, 
First, I understand your are the Turbo Marketing contact, however I could not find a general listing for contact. If you can not help me, forward my email or suggest you can, thanks.
I've purchased a brand new BW Ko4-015 turbo for my Audi on the personal adds for $675 on http://www.Audizine.com (an Audi enthusiasts website). When it arrived there was no box for it, no paper work and simply just the turbo. Upon install there where many many issues that started to raise flags regarding the authenticity of this turbo (not necessary to read, but I did list the problems @ the bottom of this email if you chose to read).
After completion of install I did:
-Oil Level Test (Good)
-2 primer starts (Good)
-Oil Level Test (Good)
-2 10 minute idles (Good)
-Oil Level Test (Good)
-Gradual cost around the condo units (Good, Attempted no boost)
I pulled on the street, softly applied gas to gradually make 5-8 PSI, made it 100 yards and BAM! Upon removing the exhaust, the turbine fell out, yep, I made it 100 yards and it blew apart. Now, don't get me wrong, I've built full standalone custom turbo cars, I've installed many of these Ko4s which are nothing more then bolt ons. 
I do not know if your aware, through Audizine, members (before hand to this incident) across the pond and here in the U.S. have uncovered that the Chinese are obtaining real Ko4-015 badges from Germany, having them shipped to China, where they produce a real Borg Warner badged fakes....where I believe this one comes into play. 
Along with the install issues, I noticed there was and is absolutely no red or blue balancing check mark on the compressor turbine nuts, as well, the nuts appear to never to have been tightened or torqued (no torque etches/marks from tools).
As well as the badge appears to have been etched by hand, I do not know where you guys stand on etching (CNC, Laser Etch, or do use a ~dremal).
So including, is the badge #'s, pictures of the turbo with 0 miles prehand to install, a picture of the compressor nuts showing no tightening and no balancing check mark (now black as I had sprayed it with VHT high temp paint before install) and a couple pics of carnage. In a nut shell, is it possible to run the #'s or by visual inspection to verify if this is even real?
Badge looks exsactly like this:
-------------------------------------
KK3
5304 988 0015
Ko4-015 5304 710 0507
-------------------------------------
Blake Edwards
602-487-3838
Tempe, Arizona
Install Issues:
The coolant return line to block would not mount to the waste gate plate, it didn't even match up closely, I spent 45 minutes in a vise adjusting my coolant line to fit.
The oil dump line would not only not fit period, the casting on the turbo had a raised horizontal bar and a vercial lip that prevented the flange from fitting. I had to grind the heck out of my dump tube flange just to make surface contact. I had to do the same with the gasket because the lip and bar prevented it from fitting. It wasn't even close.
Then due to the angle of the Ko4 and/or dump flange on the casting, the dump tube ran right into the oil pan boss/flange/starter area. I had to remove the dump line and bend it off the turbo to not run into everything. 
Then it was still so off I had to make a custom line to contect the two because the OEM dump line couldn't make that bend. 
Then the Ko4 angle was so off the test pipe would not mate, the entire KO4 hot side KKK flange was so off I couldn't fit it onto the studs...that was even with the exhaust system undone unmounted to move freely and man handled the hell just to get it on. After it was said and done the dp pick up point braceing it to the car was so off I had to make a custom one.
And the brace obviously wouldn't fit and had to make a custom one.


----------



## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: (The A1 and A2 German)*

more pics of turbine wheel, particularly inducer. 
all the K03S we sold from bw had the 3K in a triangle, the housings look legit, maybe it was a shotty rebuild that was passed off as new. The turbine wheels don't snap for no reason. If it was a rebuild someone could easily pass off a broken turbine wheel with damaged inducer as good because you can't really see the inducer from a visual inspection.
Got any pics of the center cartridge, did it spin freely when you installed it? If you need a K03S for an audi feel free to IM.







I'd be happy to help out a dubber


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (CTS Turbo)*

Thanx much for the response http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
This is acutually supposed to be a Ko4-015 turbo.
Here's the pics I do have, the turbo is still on the car as I need something to limp around on. I maybe hitting you up on a turbo, I have to have $675 resolved, and can't limp around on ~70 hp much longer.
EDIT: It did spin freely, however there was play in it, however minumal you could still move it side to side. 
Here's the pics I have:











































_Modified by The A1 and A2 German at 7:29 PM 3-11-2010_


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

minimal side to side is normal with journal bearings
is it me or the wastegate doesnt looks new ???
if im not mistaken the shutter in the hot side usually looks like a big engine looking valve and shouldnt have a speck of something stuck on it , looks like some crusty stuff who didnt fell off after sandblast and if it was sold as new..... but the rest looks clean... 
i hope youll find a good replacement.... suuuucckkkss tho ... i feel ya , i bougth a t3-t04b supposedly in very good condition almost new and had to get it rebuilt ...... and then 3 months after he sucked a part of my air filter , the round shiny steel thing in the middle... didt got in but it did sratch the compressor wheel a bit ... need to send it to check balance GRRRRRR im never ever running an air filter with steel parts ... EVER AGAIN!!!









did you shut the oil feed ? i guess so..










_Modified by PeOpLeG60T at 5:01 AM 3-12-2010_


----------



## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*

Lets see a shot of the tag on the compressor housing.


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (CTS Turbo)*

This is the best of ~50 pictures, as the turbos still on the car, even with the induction boot off it's still hard to get a good photo.
EDIT: Wow, that's pretty bad, I tried playing with the flash thought nothing would come up. Going to try some new ones in daylight Friday @ work.

Here's the badge plate #'s and order location:
Badge looks exsactly like this:
-------------------------------------
KK3
5304 988 0015
Ko4-015 5304 710 0507
-------------------------------------



































_Modified by The A1 and A2 German at 1:03 AM 3-12-2010_


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

ligth up the tag with another ligth source ( flashlight or something) with an angle , put your camera with disabled flash , macro setting if you are really close and your'e set


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

this last shot is a very good angle for the pic btw , just light it up with something else


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeOpLeG60T* »_
-is it me or the wastegate doesnt looks new ?
-the shutter in the hot side shouldnt have a speck of something stuck on it 
-did you shut the oil feed ? 


-Maybe a little scratched up, maybe it was re-zinced, but for the most part looked new.
-I saw that speck on the shutter too, it kinda stuck out like a sore thumb
-Capped the oil line
Sucks about your air filter http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif , you try to do something right and it ends up costing you.


----------



## vw_owner (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: (The A1 and A2 German)*

wow, that really sucks. i love how everybody is saying that its a charge pipe or something when you had good idle from the start. if you blow any of your IC pipes, the car will idle like **** and probably eventually die. my friend blew one at the track in a MKV and the car just started dumping black smoke and the revs were up and down from 400-1600. glad you figured out what it is, first thing i was thinking was blow turbo as well. hope you get it resolved. trust in Clay, he is a really stand-up dude http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: (vw_owner)*






























































































































































it will cost me about 150 bucks to replace the wheel and rebalance.... at least its not 500 bucks again .... so glad it didnt went thru , would had made more damage.... im actualy had to run the turbo like this last summer :S at like minimal WG setting because i was moving and didnt had any place to work or place to let sit the car damn busy streets here, cant park anywhere and in summer tou cant have a car sitting more than 2 days in a row at the same side of the street or else you get tickets... 


_Modified by PeOpLeG60T at 11:23 PM 3-12-2010_


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (PeOpLeG60T)*

Guess who called today? Borg Warner along with so, sent me an email for documentation. And, my response to the seller.

Tuesday, March 16th, 2010
Blake,
It looks to me you received a knock-off or pirate turbo as you suspected… Some of the signs are, as you noted; the incorrect nameplate label (“KK3”) and the information on the nameplate is wrong as well. There are several other things which don’t align with our genuine product, which you found with fitment and performance, or lack of rather. Unfortunately, this is a common failure mode for these pirated turbos as unbelievable as it sounds; five minutes is a long life span from what I’ve heard stories of. I don’t know what to tell you except to ask the questions when you have concerns prior to installing or modifying anything… if the turbo is supposed to be a drop-in upgrade, it should just drop-in. Let me know if you have any questions for me…
Thanks, xxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email to Seller, Tuesday, March 16th, 2010

Hello Renz,
First I'd like to thank you for at least getting back with me regarding my previous contact. I understand being in the position your in, as I've sold amps that I know work, then receive an email from the buyer it does not. Who knows how they hooked it up, maybe they did fry it, maybe it's not even hooked up properly from the start and it makes it a tough call as a seller.
Concerning the turbo, if this was not a Borg Warner turbo and ended up being say a Garret or say a CTS turbo (real turbos) then no real harm done, considering those are real turbos and it wouldn't really bother me at all that I was running one of their turbos instead of a Borg Warner.
However this is a documented fake Ko4-015, and documented through Borg Warner's South Carolina Manufacturing plant and their German Borg Warner Manufacturing plant. This is not a Borg Warner turbo as stated in the agreement, and a turbo is the last thing that can hold up being a fake. It sucks for you, if you truly did get it off your friend as you stated and he pulled one over on you, and your now is this situation.
As this is fake I'm going to have to open the dispute with Paypal, and considering it's documented it violates the agreement if I do not see a refund by Wednesday, March 16th, 2010. The best I can do for you an the best option I see, and to cost you the lest amount, is you applying the: Refund Payment, tap in which you will not receive any Paypal fees or charges from this transaction. In turn, and upon receiving the refund I would Paypal you the $40 in shipping charges it cost you, to get it to me (and quickly I thank you), simply in good faith and the good intent you had getting it to be very quickly.
Upon refund, I can send you the turbo back, however in all honesty it's pretty much a nightmere turbo and nothing lines up or fits, even a rebuild would be out of the question I would not reinstall it. I've forwarded you the Borg Warner email, directly from their plant.
-Blake Edwards
P.S.: Once again it's unfortunate this was not real, paying $675 is killing me paying over $1,500 a month in mortgage and H.O.A. dues in these times, I hope you understand being in my shoes if you where sold a fake anything and blew up right away, you'd be upset paying that amount. Not to mention it's not the quickest thing to install and already going to cost me another oil change, all new gaskets, and coolant out of my pocket, again. Thanx man


----------



## kkkustom (Jun 5, 2007)

*Re: 100 Yards into new turbo, large pop and no boost. (The A1 and A2 German)*

My buddy and I read the title and thought you did what I did... blew off a charge pipe at 25+ psi from a 3076R the first blast out of the garage!!! lol it sounded like a shot gun going off.

BUT I see you have much bigger problems.







Good luck with all this.


----------



## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw_owner* »_wow, that really sucks. i love how everybody is saying that its a charge pipe or something when you had good idle from the start. if you blow any of your IC pipes, the car will idle like **** and probably eventually die. my friend blew one at the track in a MKV and the car just started dumping black smoke and the revs were up and down from 400-1600. glad you figured out what it is, first thing i was thinking was blow turbo as well. hope you get it resolved. trust in Clay, he is a really stand-up dude http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


not if he has standalone with a MAP sensor triggered fuel and spark maps
i can pull the intake pipe off my throttle body on my turbo car and it will run fine.


----------



## Spyda96 (Apr 7, 2007)

*Re: (The A1 and A2 German)*

Man I am sorry to hear this about your turbo set up. I know the feeling when a turbo fails, I had one fail on my starion once. It sounded like my power steering pump needed oil, the turbo had axial shaft play. This turned my turbine housing into a grinder that ended up eating at the turbine blades until the turbo froze. Good luck on your next turbo make sure you get warrantee.


----------

