# r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t



## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Why R32 rotors on a GTI:*
I had been looking for a brake upgrade for my GTI and became disgusted with the cost and quality of all the kits that I had run into. Brembos (all the different varieties) are hot, but there isn't much out there for the rears that maintains the parking brake without having to use a secondary caliper in the rear. Same thing with wilwoods. Stoptechs also crossed my mind, but again didn't offer anything for the rears that I liked. I could have gone with OEM vented rears with any of the big front brakes, but I wanted a more complete solution for all 4 corners.
The ECS system with Boxter front calipers and the solid floating rear rotors was the only thing that really caught my eye. But when all was said and done this system would run ~2k which then made me lean more to stoptechs and vented rears for just a couple hundred more. blar.
At this point I hadn't even considered using r32 fronts since the lowest price I found was around $1500.. but then I found a price that was roughly half that and the r32 brakes piqued my interest again. I started combing through past issues of Euro Tuner and European Car to see how the different brake setups handled, and the r32 stock brakes seemed to hold their own quite well (especially with upgraded pads). This basically sold me on getting all OEM shizz for my car.

*Quick Concern:*
I was originally concerned with brake bias of the r32 system on my lighter car, but came to the decision that if I upgraded the rears at the same time, the bias couldn't be any worse than what the 4 corner ECS kit would offer. The ECS system is really attractive and was my second choice for a break upgrade.

*The parts:*
The parts for my r32 brake conversion are as follows:
- Front r32 carriers (L,R)
- Front r32 calipers (L,R)
- Front r32 rotors (L,R)
- Rear 337 calipers (L,R)
- Rear 337 carriers (L,R)
- Rear zimmerman vented rotors
- Mintex Redbox pads all around
- ECS rear flexible stainless steel lines
- new crush washers for rear banjo bolts
- Custom front Stainless Lines
All rotors were cryo treated and slotted by Porterfield in Irvine CA. Good Guys. All parts were purchased from Mike at Parts4vws.com unless stated otherwise.

*Driving Impressions:*
After the warm up period I had the opportunity to really slam down on these things. wow. Quite grippy and doesn't seem to shift the weight to the front as much as the old stock brakes. The brakes do not pull to one side or the other as was common with my old warped stock stuff. Braking around corners is much more predictable partially due to the improved pedal modulation and feel. I've yet to track this setup, but I presume that it will do quite nicely.
The slotting appears to eat my mintex redbox pads according to the abundance of brake pad particles stuck to my rims. Gonna have to keep an eye on it.
For reference I have new toyo proxes4 225/40/17 on Team Dynamics Racing rims.
*Useful Links for Brake Junk:*
- Place to do cryo treating, slotting, buy awesome brake pads and brake lines and fittings:
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/
- Place to buy r32 brakes:
http://www.parts4vws.com/
- And here are some more links for other good plumbing places. These helped me figure out the differences between a -3an and 10x1.25 threaded ends. Hooray for learning:
http://www.amstreetrod.com/CatalogIndex.php4
http://www.daymotorsports.com/vendor/41/
http://www.paragonperformance.com/

*Pics of the install:*
The Gear:








Painting the calipers and carriers:








Slotted Rotors:








The hot R32 front rotor:








Custom Stainless Lines:








Rear Brake Lines:








New Rims and Tires:








Rotor Comparison:








Front Caliper Comparison:








Rear Upgrade Installed:
































Front Upgrade Installed:
















































Working on TyrolSport Stiffening Bushings:
























































Bad pic of my whip:









I'll update this initial post with any more pertinent info.










_Modified by transient_analysis at 8:59 AM 1-23-2009_


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## JNV (May 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*

Very good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
A pain that the last pictures have bad quality.


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (JNV)*

I'll update with better pictures later today..


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## Boosted A4 (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*

Where did you get the slotted rotors from? How much did the how setup cost?


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (Boosted A4)*

Rotors were cryo treated and slotted at Porterfield in irvine ca (they make awesome race pads).. This, along with the front brake lines, cost me $340. Everything else was $1500 with fluid, tax and yadda yadda..


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*

The post gives the impression that you have done a very professional and clean job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Very nice








Hrm.... I wonder If I could fit the R32 stuff on the 98' 5 lug VR6 brake conversion currently on my A2... Do you know if those brakes would clear 17" wheels?


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (CrackerX)*

Thanks for the kudos http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
The rims pictured in my initial post are 17x7 Team Dynamics Racing 15 lbs rims. These brakes also fit under 17x8 Milli Miglia Evo 5's. They have loads of clearance too (about 1.5cm minimum clearance).


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

wow sweet setup!
I have a question though. For the rears, they are the stock size, but they are slotted and have the 337 caliper? the 337 caliper.. what does it do exactly that the stock one doesnt?


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## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *transient_analysis* »_
The rims pictured in my initial post are 17x7 Team Dynamics Racing 15 lbs rims. These brakes also fit under 17x8 Milli Miglia Evo 5's. They have loads of clearance too (about 1.5cm minimum clearance).

Oh my god. I wonder if they will fit on my current 16" castellets.... I only have 5 more months of saving to do for these brakes, or I could burn my credit card!!!! I bet they will be just stupid ridiculous on my gutted A2!!! Awesome... 
Again man, really nice job!


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (CrackerX)*

updated front install pictures. No more blurr!


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## JNV (May 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*








Hello another time. 
I need your help. 
I have asked to a company of UK ( http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk ) to make the Brake Lines and they have answered me this. 

_Quote »_Dear Sirs,
Thankyou for your e-mail. Re the union on the L/H side, I need to know what type of seat it will require.



Can you tell me to that refer??











_Modified by JNV at 3:16 PM 10-14-2004_


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

Do you know what they mean by the "union on the L/H side"??
The types of seats used in my brake system are:
- -3AN fittings with a 37 degree tapered end.
- a crush washer on the adapter going to the brake caliper without any taper on the end of the male 10x1 threaded end.
- a conical taper (I think this is called "inverted Flare") on the inside of female side of the 10x1 to -3AN adapter.
What brake upgrades are you looking into??


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## JNV (May 28, 2003)

*Re: (transient_analysis)*

I have the Golf IV Gti Tdi and I want to install the R32 Brakes.
........... Gti ....................... R32
Front:... 288mm .................. 334 mm 
Rear:... 232mm ................. 256 mm










_Modified by JNV at 6:31 PM 10-14-2004_


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## vdubjb (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (JNV)*

very, very nice!


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

sweet work dude! good pics.


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: (JNV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JNV* »_I have the Golf IV Gti Tdi and I want to install the R32 Brakes.
........... Gti ....................... R32
Front:... 288mm .................. 334 mm 
Rear:... 232mm ................. 256 mm

I see two options if you're having lines made with the proper ends.
- (female 10x1 thread with proper seat for adapting to a hardline) -> (stainless teflon line ~18 inches long) -> (banjo bolt end with 10x1 banjo bolt and copper crush washers)
- same as above but instead of a banjo bolt, use a 10x1 swivel fitting with tapered fitting on the end to make a good seal.
I'd suggest using a banjo bolt setup..
thanks for the kudos guys.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JNV (May 28, 2003)

*Re: (transient_analysis)*

I have gotten the original Brake Lines of a R32. 

These yes they serve or is it necessary to modify something?


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

Those things look pretty beat up, but they look like they should work.
If you want new lines, try to see if you can have someone copy the ones in your pictures.
GOOD LUCK!


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*

How much weight did you add to each corner. Unsprung weight = http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
The ECS stuff is light, which is huge when comparing braking performance, fuel economy, suspension performance, and acceleration.


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (3wheelinWolf)*

These things arn't light by any means.
I didn't get the chance to weigh the caliper, but the front rotors weigh in at 22lbs.
The front r32 calipers are no more than twice as heavy as the stock GTI ones.. I wish I had put them on a scale.
I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that the difference in weight between a boxter caliper and an R32 caliper is within 4 or 5 lbs.. I'd also venture to say that the R32 rotor isn't far off of the weight of the Rotor ring and hat that ECS has put together.
I agree with you that saving weight has all the benefits you listed, HOWEVER there are far more things to consider than just how much more weight has been added to each corner especially if you're comparing the R32 upgrade to the ECS Stage II with Boxter Calipers (I'm assuming this is what you'd want to compare to).
I feel that the weight difference between these kits would offer you minimal differences in braking performance, fuel economy, suspension performance, and acceleration. The only way to begin to really compare these systems is to weigh all the components, install them on equal cars, and drive them around measuring everything performance perameter you can think of multiple times.


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*

Nice job. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








I doubt the weight difference would be noticeable on the street, it may be noticeable on the track.


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## mdt (Nov 22, 2001)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (greyhare)*

Excellent stuff. Well done. 
Good post too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
We're in the process of installing some R32 brakes on a Mk III. Would you advise against using slotted rotors? The car is primarily for the track.
I have a bit of a reputation for late braking too, which has meant that I normally chew through the pads and rotors.
How has your set up coped with the track, have you suffered brake fade?
Cheers,


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (mdt)*

I've yet to take this setup to the track unfortunately..
I have, however, done some tooling around on some back roads and heated the rotors up quite a bit.. They keep grabbing pretty well when hot and I couldn't get them to fade. I think this setup would work really well for you on the track.
I decided to slot the brakes because I knew about the supposed braking performance increase, and was already going to get them cryo treated and figured why not go the extra step.. learning experience you know??
I expect this setup to work rather well on the track and hopefully I can get my but t out to one in the near future.


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## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *transient_analysis* »_but there isn't much out there for the rears that maintains the parking brake without having to use a secondary caliper in the rear. Same thing with wilwoods.


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

sweet jesus.. how much does that cost?? $2.5k?


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## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*

*Sport Compact Car*
There is this rule of thumb among racers that adding weight to something that rotates is far more detrimental to performance than if you add it to the body of the car. This is absolutely true, and by bumbling through some physics, and after slipping and falling on a radian, I managed to get a few formulas figured out that could tell you just how much worse.
Any moving object has kinetic energy, as does an object sitting in place and rotating. An object that is both rotating and moving (like a rolling wheel, for example), has kinetic energy from both, meaning that accelerating or decelerating that rolling object will take more power than one that is just sliding along. How much more power is the question.
The answer, it turns out, depends on how the weight is distributed on the wheel. An extra pound on the tread of a rolling tire has as much kinetic energy as 2 lbs on the floor of the car. As you move toward the center of the wheel, the rotational effect drops until, at the center, a pound is just a pound. The formula I derived to determine the exact relationship between weight on a wheel and weight in the car isn't worth repeating here for one simple reason. It requires that you know the moment of inertia of the wheel, and measuring that is virtually impossible. What you need to know is that changing to tires that are 1 lb heavier will effectively add 8 lbs to the car (four tires, remember) and that adding a pound to the wheels will effectively add somewhere around 6 lbs to the car.
That only considers acceleration and braking; handling is dramatically affected by unsprung weight as well, but no simple formula is going to tell you how big the effect is.
Unsprung weight reduction becomes important in obtaining a responsive suspension that can be made to stick to the road. Big traction and handling implications since a lighter suspended weight responds much faster than a heavy one thus the suspension can conform to changing terrain quickly and maintain contact with the road.


_Quote, originally posted by *transient_analysis* »_These things arn't light by any means.
I didn't get the chance to weigh the caliper, but the front rotors weigh in at 22lbs.
The front r32 calipers are no more than twice as heavy as the stock GTI ones.. I wish I had put them on a scale.
I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that the difference in weight between a boxter caliper and an R32 caliper is within 4 or 5 lbs.. I'd also venture to say that the R32 rotor isn't far off of the weight of the Rotor ring and hat that ECS has put together.
I agree with you that saving weight has all the benefits you listed, HOWEVER there are far more things to consider than just how much more weight has been added to each corner especially if you're comparing the R32 upgrade to the ECS Stage II with Boxter Calipers (I'm assuming this is what you'd want to compare to).
I feel that the weight difference between these kits would offer you minimal differences in braking performance, fuel economy, suspension performance, and acceleration. The only way to begin to really compare these systems is to weigh all the components, install them on equal cars, and drive them around measuring everything performance perameter you can think of multiple times.


Its been done (sorta) from TireRack:
Reducing unsprung weight allows the springs and shock absorbers to be more effective in controlling the suspension's movement. Additionally, a vehicle's rotational weight includes all parts that spin including everything in the vehicle's driveline from the engine's crankshaft to its wheels and tires. This affects the energy required to change speed as the vehicle accelerates and brakes. As you would guess, reducing the weight of any of these rotating components will enhance the vehicle's performance because less energy will be required to increase or decrease their speed.
In order to get a better understanding of the effects of reductions or increases in wheel and tire weight on performance, comfort and feel, The Tire Rack Team conducted a Ride & Drive comparing a BMW 3-Series equipped with its Original Equipment (16") wheels and tires in order to establish a comfort and handling baseline, to a second BMW 3-Series equipped with Plus One (17") wheels & tires using lightweight aluminum alloy wheels, and a third BMW 3-Series equipped with the same size Plus One application, but this time using heavyweight aluminum alloy wheels.
Original Equipment (OE) BMW 3-Series Alloy Wheels and Tires
16" x 7" sized OE BMW wheels and 205/55R16 91H-sized Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus tires
The aluminum alloy wheels which came as Original Equipment on our 3-Series test car features cross-spoke styling and weigh an estimated 20.5 pounds each.
The Energy MXV4 Plus tires used as Original Equipment on our BMW 3-Series are Grand Touring tires which blend some of a performance tire's looks and handling with a standard passenger tire's longer life and more comfortable ride. The Energy MXV4 Plus incorporates an advanced version of Michelin's Radial XSE Technology (which consists of a Smart Tread Compound, Optimized Casing Shape and Optimized Mass Distribution). The OE Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus tires weigh 22.5 pounds each.
When combined, the weight of the Original Equipment Energy MXV4 Plus tires mounted on the BMW alloy wheels results in a 42.5 pound Tire & Wheel Package.
On the road, the OE BMW alloy wheels and Energy MXV4 Plus tires were praised for their good ride, low noise, real world handling and steering feel. The car felt balanced and generated a relatively light steering feel that felt appropriate for the car. This combination made it easy to understand the combination of real world ride, noise and handling qualities that BMW engineers wanted for their 3-Series sedan. On the track, this combination was rated as responsive and predictable while providing good braking, cornering traction and handling. However, as expected, this car turned in the slowest lap times of the three combinations tested.


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## JNV (May 28, 2003)

*Re: r32 Brake Install/Review on a mkiv GTI 1.8t (transient_analysis)*

Hi transient_analysis,
Because at the end it is able to install the R32 Brakes in my Gti Tdi. 
But I have a problem, I have made with the new controls about 1.000 kms, but the sensation that I have it is that it doesn't brake. 
A friend has told me that I could be due to that the circuit is not well purged. 

Did you notice something similar?. 
He would thank you you to have me your impressions the brakes of the R32.
For your information to tell you that it uses the OEM Lines Brakes of the R32 and liquid DOT4 (Castrol).










_Modified by JNV at 8:53 AM 11-19-2004_


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

I havn't had any sort of problem with my setup. You may want to try and flush your brake fluid again to make sure there is no air in your line... also inspect your brake line fittings to make sure they are not leaking..
other than that, the r32 brakes are easier to modulate going into turns, and stop my car like mad when I have to.. very happy with em.


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## rick8018 (Jan 3, 2001)

*Re: (transient_analysis)*

Somewhat OT, but how did you remove the rear dust shield? Tin snips?


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: (rick8018)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rick8018* »_Somewhat OT, but how did you remove the rear dust shield? Tin snips?

tin snips, metal file, blood, time.


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