# Accessing the evaporator drain / Liquid "sloshing" sound in cabin [TOC, photos re-hosted]



## aubergine2004 (Oct 2, 2009)

I finally figured out how to do this, at least for the passenger side. Look at the picture of michael's trick for reinstallation of J523. Right next to the cable that gets pulled as a trick, you can see the rubber drain hose. The soft rubber hose connects to the plastic drain of the main HVAC assembly right there. Just pull it off and the backwater can flow right out into a bucket. Then you can unclog, make sure the soft rubber hose is not getting pinched, etc.

*Arrow points at passenger side evaporator drain*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/J523Removal6.jpg


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Here is some additional visual information.

Michael









[/URL]
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/EvaporatorPanDrains_zps639adae6.jpg[/IMG]








[/URL]
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/AirConditioner_zps766da6eb.jpg[/IMG]


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Here is an illustration showing the one fastener that you need to remove prior to pulling the forward end of the transmission tunnel trim panel away from the tunnel, as illustrated in the top photo in this thread.

Note that aft of this one fastener, the trim panel is attached with wedge-type clips. It is possible, but generally not necessary, to further remove the trim panel by pulling outward at the clip attachement points. The clips are friction-fit.

Prior to doing any of this, move the front seats to the extreme aft and the lowest possible position.

Michael


*Remove this fastener*
(disregard the lower portion of the illustration, which shows the aft end of the center console)









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/TrimRemoval_zps527c55fb.jpg


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Finally, here is a two page extract from the Phaeton repair manual that discusses the two evaporator pan drain fittings.

Michael


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## HT4 (Mar 2, 2011)

*Liquid "sloshing" sound on acceleration*

As the title suggests, I can hear a loud liquid "sloshing" sound on hard acceleration. I rarely goose the gas pedal, so it might be that this is the gas tank and all Phaetons make this noise, but I have never heard it before a couple days ago. The sould seems like it is coming from the rear half of the car, but given the nature of the issue (i.e., only on hard acceleration), the noise is proving difficult to locate.

If it helps, my car has not been in the rain or through a carwash since KESSY was replaced, so I do not think it is the same issue popping up again.

Anyone else with similar experience? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

Just a thought, could be the drain for the pan that collects the air conditioning water be plugged?
I'm not sure where it is in the Phaeton.
Good luck!


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

The water your hearing is in the plastic ducting going to the rear a/c outlets in the center console. It is caused by the a/c evaporator coil drains being clogged. They are located at front of car at side of center console. One on driver side the other at passenger side. Side of console, colored part beneath wood trim pulls out but first there is a screw that must be removed at furthest part forward of console trim. Pull back and tuck behind brake pedal. the evap drains are flexible black rubber, seperate this drain from black plastic evap housing, use a sturdy yet flexible plastic tubing 1/4" or so and snake it in. Blow into tubing using one's lungs. Then you can pass a mechanicl speedometer cable thru. Once clear, your carpet's will no longer become wet and the sloshing sound will disappear. You will notice the car will drip the A/C condensate from below the car at the center of vehicle as it should. Not from the body plugs located throughout the underside. You may want to pull the one under the kessey module or others to drain vehicle. I hope the new kessey was installed in a plastic bag as was recommended by a forum member (now banned)in the past. This should be added to the list of "maintenance" required in addition to cleaning and clearing the plenum areas of normal debris. Who knew owning a luxury vehicle would have so much "hands on fun"? If you need details, feel free to PM me. P.S. read the other posts entitled water ingress in the table of contents. BTDT. I believe your current problem is A/C condensate not being removed however in the future, you may find your plenum area is a suitable fish tank. All good fun you have to own a Phaeton to enjoy. If this car was anything less than the refined auto it is it wouldn't be worth it- but it is worth it. Love -hate relationship. Good luck to you.


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

I don't have pictures but I did find the pictures in the TOC threads. Probably the pushbutton start installation post. Just as an FYI, the Nav screen losing the graphics has happened to me as well. It started to lose the maps but the text would appear, then a gray screen then a black screen. It's remained black for months now. One glimpse of hope is that having solved the evap drain issue, the nav screen began to turn gray for a moment or two.The Nav system works but no image. I know all will say that's the fiber optic cable but I don't believe it. Since it's happened to you and you've had water ingress issues as I have, I believe it may just be moisture obscuring the light source. I've vag'ed the nav unit and it seems the only test is a test of the internal fan. Not sure at what temp it should work at. I don't think my fan is working. At least it didn't for the test. I don't see how a fiber optic cable, unless physically damaged, can go bad i.e a kink or a turn tighter than .25. I've read that if your scan reads an control module as defective, you can pretty much go ahead and order a new one. I was lucky to not to have taken that advice as I found my trunk module was listed as "defective" after several unsuccessful attempts at adaptation but when I checked and changed country of origin from a 5221 or so to a 5121 (it was changed back to US from Europe) my trunk controller operated once it was properly adapted and was not defective as the scan indicated. Although I've read and verified I have the correct software 0223/0168 for my 2005 a refresh update may be in order. I'm envious of those with great Phaeton techs at the dealerships. If it will help I can take a picture pointing to where the evap drains are located and another to where the screw can be found. On the Nav system, I pulled the fiber optic end out from the Nav controller and saw the the red light was flashing but did not see the white light at all. If someone knows what is happening that would help. I believe the J523 is transmitting a signal (red) to the nav mod and the nav mod would transmit back using the white. That is just a guess.


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

kend414 said:


> ...If it will help I can take a picture pointing to where the evap drains are located and another to where the screw can be found...


 That would be wonderful.
I have no clue as to your other problems.

P.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

There might be some useful information in this thread from the FAQ:

Water in Front Footwell (Cleaning Air Intake Plenum and Sunroof Drains)

Harry


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

Here it is...http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4995424-Accessing-the-evaporator-drain


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## HT4 (Mar 2, 2011)

kend414 said:


> Here it is...http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4995424-Accessing-the-evaporator-drain


Perfect, thanks. :thumbup:


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## HT4 (Mar 2, 2011)

What a pain in the butt these cars can be!!!

I've been working on cars and tracking them as a hobby for many years. When I made the switch from the simplicity of my old chevy small block to tuning modern computer-controlled imports, I remember being frustrated with the unneeded complexity I encountered. This car, however, is in a whole different class of unneeded complexities...


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## HT4 (Mar 2, 2011)

Prince Ludwig said:


> There might be some useful information in this thread from the FAQ:
> 
> Water in Front Footwell (Cleaning Air Intake Plenum and Sunroof Drains)
> 
> Harry


I checked that last week after getting the car back from the dealer... everything was squeaky clean and flowing well but I cleaned it out anyway and ran cable through them all just to be sure. I suspect this AC drain may have been my issue from the beginning. :banghead:

Harry


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hello All:

I have merged the newer post ("Liquid Sloshing Sound in Cabin") with an earlier post ("Accessing the Evaporator Drain"), in order to keep all the discussion of this topic together in the same thread.

I'll add this thread to the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category).

Special thanks to Ken D. for searching for and finding the original evaporator drain thread. The link he provided above will now point back to the top of this thread (it's now a circular reference) because of the merge.

Michael


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

PanEuropean said:


> Hello All:
> 
> 
> Special thanks to Ken D. for searching for and finding the original evaporator drain thread. The link he provided above will now point back to the top of this thread (it's now a circular reference) because of the merge.
> ...


Michael, it was your photos and info that really assisted my finding the location of the evap drains. I think it is important to note that when the evap drains are not flowing the water tends to accumulate in the a/c duct ducted to the rear vents, both upper and lower. The sloshing is unmistakable. It sounds as if it is the center console! Simply brake abruptly at a stoplight! I even observed a small droplet of water or two at the rear vents edge. This water eventually exited from under the front driver's seat rear hvac outlet. Both rear footwell carpets were wet. This evap drain situation differs from the plenum drain clog issue in that most owners aren't aware there is water ingress with the Plenum drain since the water is below carpet until filling and eventually reaching the surface of the carpet. I am not aware of any owner of the plenum drain water isue noticing any sloshing sounds or alerted to water entry by sound. Even when my plenum was full, I noticed no audible sound from inside the vehicle. Only upon visual inspection, again, thanks to your photos, did I notice water present in the plenum .

I don't wish to scare anyone but it seems with the plenum drain, if not accessed from below the vehicle and removed, the small twigs and such from leaves etc simply cannot be removed using a vacuum from above nor can it be flushed with a stream of water. This is equivalent to trying to flush pencils lying in the sink down a small circular drain. It doesn't work well at all. The T reg's have access to their plenum drains behind each front wheel wheel. It is a different situation for us Phaeton owners. We need to work on a better solution to maintaining the plenum area to prevent the dreaded Plenum drain water ingress issue. Perhaps a screen door fabric (black) applied to the rear of the part with the vertical slots (cowl) located at the base of the windshield? I hate to see another forum member,non forum Phaeton owner or Phaeton have to go through the expense and aggravation associated with a clogged Plenum. The evap drain issue was a breeze thanks to your pictures.:beer:


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

kend414 said:


> We need to work on a better solution to maintaining the plenum area to prevent the dreaded Plenum drain water ingress issue. Perhaps a screen door fabric (black) applied to the rear of the part with the vertical slots (cowl) located at the base of the windshield? I hate to see another forum member,non forum Phaeton owner or Phaeton have to go through the expense and aggravation associated with a clogged Plenum. The evap drain issue was a breeze thanks to your pictures.:beer:


Ken & All active participants on Water Ingress Issues:

Thanks for all the updates and info. I agree that we all need to be diligent about these issues and share any insights we find through experience. I haven't been counting but it seems to me that an inordinate number of repairs at least expense-wise on our beloved Phaetons are due to many things that are preventable. We seem to see more water-ingress and trunk wire loom repairs than we do alternators, starters, radiators and such. However, cleaning drains are not standard VW maintenance items - although VW did put sunroof drain cleaning on the list recently after many horror stories and a legal push. Since they are not part of routine maintenance, VW techs ignore these items until a problem is encountered, but that is generally too late. Thus, its up to us to take care of these "maintenance" issues that have been well-documented in this forum for the rest of us.

Thank goodness for this forum and spirit of cooperation among its members. I'm sure it has saved me a bunch. :thumbup:

Jim X


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

Jim,
I'm glad to have found this forum. Without it, I'm not sure I could own a Phaeton for very long. Nor could I have recommended and assisted in the purchase of a Phaeton to my brother in law ( he loves the car, but feels it presents a challenge to his VW dealership with each visit). I can't tell you how many times it was necessary to "overule" his dealership's advice or action because I found the correct course of action/coding here on the forum or from VW enthusiasts. Thousands saved,both his and mine. But make no mistake about it, this car isn't for everyone. A person may "think" he/she is a Phaeton qualified owner but in reality, if that person doesn't have the patience, perserverance, research skills and ability to maintain a positive outlook despite facing a potentially great financial expense then this is NOT the right car for them (NAR MY2004-2006). My friend laughs at my "challenges" with the Phaeton and tells me all the time how lucky I am that I'm able to research and find my way thru these challenges otherwise my purchase would have been a disaster. I believe he's right. Thankfully we have the forum. I also strongly suggest as is advised many times on this forum, to buy an extended warranty as this a necessity. 
To own a Phaeton, better yet, to DRIVE a Phaeton is the epitome of what a luxury car should feel like. Heck, I only have the V8. I couldn't imagine the W12!


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## aubergine2004 (Oct 2, 2009)

*tilt your car*

Hello Everyone!

I get the sloshing in the ac ducts to rear also. I just park the car nose down on a hill and open up the drain near the front passenger's left foot. Parking the car facing nose down up a hill with a tube stuck into the rear vents also works.

-Paul


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

aubergine2004 said:


> Hello Everyone!
> 
> I get the sloshing in the ac ducts to rear also. I just park the car nose down on a hill and open up the drain near the front passenger's left foot. Parking the car facing nose down up a hill with a tube stuck into the rear vents also works.
> 
> -Paul


Have you felt the carpet with both the front and rear mats removed? On my car I noticed if the water did not drain from the evap drains, the water accumulated under the carpet and tries to escape from the many body floor pan plugs. If this water is substantial in quantity and the vehicle is parked front down on a hill and the water doesn't escape from the clogged evap drain, the possibility exists the kessey unit located under the front driver footwell will become flooded. I think it important to clear both the evap drains in both directions.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Jxander said:


> ...it seems to me that an inordinate number of repairs at least expense-wise on our beloved Phaetons are due to many things that are preventable...


Very good point, Jim.

I think that the nub of the issue here is that our (North American) Phaetons are now between 6 and 9 years old. Consider that most MY 2004 cars were built in the fall and winter of 2003, and the newest Phaeton in North America (a 2006 vehicle) would probably have been built in the fall of 2005.

As owners, many of us are acting out of normal character by continuing to own and operate a 6 to 9 year old car. Heck, I have never owned or operated a car more than 4 years old in my life - I always get rid of cars before the warranty expires. In the case of the Phaeton, though, we can't buy a new one in North America, and obviously we all like and enjoy this vehicle enough to make us depart from our normal practice and keep the car far beyond the time when we would normally trade it in.

This means that we need to get used to doing things that we have never needed to do before, which includes paying attention to problems that will arise in any vehicle as a result of an extended time in service. Things such as changing batteries, changing drive belts, changing odd-ball fluids (e.g. transmission fluid), and cleaning dirt out of nooks and crannies where dirt can accumulate and cause problems.

With reference to water leaks, I think that it is pretty clear that the primary cause of water ingress - whether it comes from the air intake plenum, the sunroof, or the air conditioning evaporator - is dirt and debris blocking the exit paths provided for the water. Basically, we have two choices - wait for the leak to happen, or; take action ahead of time to clean the drainage system out and prevent the leak from happening.

When I eventually get home (I'm in Peru till the end of the month), I know that I need to carry out some of these tasks on my own car. I'll take some photos and attempt to write up some "how-to" posts when I do this work.

Michael


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## vwkillingme (May 9, 2011)

..this thread should be mandatory for all Phaeton owners, so pay close attention. having purchased my 2004 Phaeton on 3/31/2011 from a VW dealer with 42,000 miles I've had it in my posession for 5 weeks. The rest it has sat at my dealers with BOTH these issues. First was the plenum clogging, which after all was said and done cost $5800.00 after replacing just about every module and power relay and, and, and, after the dealer, who by the way really raised their level of service from the first weeks they had my car called to tell me it was ready to drive. I picked it up and 4 days later friends and I were driving and my friend in the back complained of water spraying him from the rear AC. Bingo!!! I turned down the radio and that's when I heard the water sloshing around, so it now sits back at the dealer waiting more power modules after have the second KESSY replaced (thank God for comprehensive!!!! LOL!!), and we're at $1200.00 right now. so guys PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE address these issue A.S.A.P. regardless as preventative, cause no one needs to go thru what I'm going thru right. I'm closing in on 100 days at the dealer, but on the bright side I'm on my second loaner, both Jettas, one an auto and the other a manual, so I've had fun with them.......Rock


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted. 

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

See also this discussion (especially post #7), which might provide some useful related information: HVAC problem, windows fogging.

Michael


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## sean_m (Oct 6, 2010)

I haven't seen this come up in the threads about the evaporator drains, so please forgive me if it's been covered, but the driver's side drain is nowhere near as easy to access as the passenger's side drain. The front end of the transmission tunnel trim panel does not pop out easily because there is a rail and bracket assembly that holds the panel in place.

If you give the trim panel a good pull thinking a stubborn clip is there, like I did, you may end up popping the bracket over the top of the rail. I found it impossible to push the panel back into place without removing the entire panel so I could slide it around and back into place, which required some additional manipulation with the driver's seat restricting how I could move it.

There is a covered screw obscured by the driver's seat that secures the panel beyond the snap clips. I removed it with an improvised low profile 90 degree screwdriver made with a 1/4" ratchet, Torx bit, and a rubber band.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

There is additional information, with more detail, about how to remove that trim panel in the discussion about retrofitting a start button. Here is a link to it:

Retrofitting Keyless Start to a North American Phaeton

See step 10) of post #2 in that discussion.

Michael


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## jenvee828 (Jun 25, 2011)

Hi Michael, 

Just another photo re-host request. Working on a related issue with my Phaeton.

Thanks!


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