# High IAT with an air-water setup



## Sharino (Aug 11, 2005)

Just a few questions about my air-water setup.

I dont want to start a a/w vs a/a debate. I choose to go with a a/w setup for my VRT and I noticed I am getting quite high IATs, 150ish F when it is about 80' outside

I have the 600hp kit from silicone intakes. A 24x12 heat exchanger in place of the a/c condensor, and a bosch electric pump. It is running pure water at the moment until I get everything sorted. I do not have a fan on it though, just 2 puller fans that are on constantly behind the main radiator which have been fine for the engine temperatures in the hot summer. There is no reservoir, just an inline filler.

Any ideas? Do I need a pusher fan installed or could it be the water causing a problem instead of running coolant?


----------



## g60vwr (Apr 9, 2000)

My guess is you dont have a res. So you arent allowing for thermal expansion, which prevents the fluid from properly circulating.


----------



## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

g60vwr said:


> My guess is you dont have a res. So you arent allowing for thermal expansion, which prevents the fluid from properly circulating.


He stated he doesn't.


----------



## ChrisAudi80 (Apr 18, 2011)

Do you have any pics of the set up? Are you sure you have air bled it completely?


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Same kit, but I have a res in my trunk. Mine usually hovers around 100 degrees in about 80 degree weather. And that's with a mk4 intake mani (8v) sitting directly over top of the turbine housing consistently heating up the intake. My IAT is gauged from that intake manifold.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

What water pump?


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

I think he's talking about the Bosch Cobra pump, same one I have.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Those dont flow a lot. I wouldnt use anything less then the 20gpm Meizere.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Yeah I have considered running two of them in separate lines to keep pressure down and flow up, but looking at that Meizere pump has got me thinking about going that route. 

Sounds like you have some personal experience with them, how is the noise level?


----------



## Mk4VRSex (Jun 18, 2011)

I have also looked at the meizere but heard about reliability issues.. Anyone with personal experience with them?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I ran a 20gpm pump as my main waterpump for two years. Any problems are most likely install error.


----------



## Mk4VRSex (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't doubt that. But glad to hear, the next step up from the 20 gph one is big bucks


----------



## Mk4VRSex (Jun 18, 2011)

Also to the OP I would think about adding a reservoir to your setup, they can be had for a reasonable price and they really let you reap the benefits of A/W with lower then ambient temps with ice. How big are your water lines?


----------



## Sharino (Aug 11, 2005)

Ya, I basically have this kit but upgraded to the bosch pump. 

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/prod...=1006&osCsid=e2023e8285e1e06222d259122f6fbf0e 

hmm..wonder if I should upgrade the pump, any links to the one mentioned? 

Also, regarding the reservoir, I dont plan to drag race but will a ice reservoir help even if I dont use it for ice, but just as a reservoir? or is there another type of reservoir you guys recommend? Could I just use another one like the VW round coolant reservoir? problem is, space is a premium in the corrado engine bay already. 

I bled the system the best I could, hard to find out how much air is in this intercooler as the filler holes are on the side of and there is no bleeder on top, makes it tough.


----------



## ChrisAudi80 (Apr 18, 2011)

You really need a bleed valve at the highest point of the system. That might be it. 
Others have used the Cobra pump with success. 
Any reservoir needs to be away from the heat of the engine bay.


----------



## dr. b (Jul 14, 2005)

*FV-QR*

reservoir. vrt corrado i see at local shows has built his spare tire well in to his reservoir. has a big Mez pump back there and no problems. i've been using a 1L aluminum can for my reservoir w/o problems (including the 9 hours back and forth to SOWO this May)...but i'm in the process of building a larger reservoir. 

and i don't use an electric pump. i have a mechanical pump that generates less heat and still flows enough coolant. 

also there is much validity to system pressure causing problems. although idk if flow is one of them. the vw cooling system is designed to work under 19-21psi. this increases the boiling point of the coolant and stabilizes the temp. awic systems need to be free of pressure for max efficiency IMO


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Talking about cooling intake air charge.. we don't really boil coolant.. lol


----------



## Sharino (Aug 11, 2005)

ok, so this is my plan, any comments welcome! 

I am going to have it route as follows 

-bottom connector of my front mount a/w radiator ->> 
-bosch electic pump ->> 
-intercooler ->> 
-then run lines to the hatch under the car to a reservoir ->> 
-then back to the top of the radiator 

I will use 3/4" ID rubber heater hose. Drill 2 holes in the spare tire well to access the interior. 
I plan to order on of these: 








or can i just use a spare OEM coolant bowl? as I do not place to use it for ice anyways. 

Questions: 
-Is running hose under the car the norm? Or am I better to run them inside? Seems the easier route instead of trying to cram hose under the interior carpet 
-Will the Reservoir need to be higher than the intercooler in the front? If so, I cannot mount it in the spare tire area, I would have to make a bracket to put it higher in the hatch. Or will it not matter as the pump is controlling the flow?


----------



## ChrisAudi80 (Apr 18, 2011)

From what I have read so far of successful AWIC setups, that sounds good. See if you can put a little bleed valve at the highest point of the system.


----------



## dr. b (Jul 14, 2005)

AJmustDIE said:


> Talking about cooling intake air charge.. we don't really boil coolant.. lol


 thanks for taking the time to read the whole post. if you don't understand, just ask for help. no need to be a jerk. 

as for routing the system, mine goes like this. 
pump -> HE -> AWIC -> reservoir -> pump. 

then the coolest coolant is pushed into the AWIC. 
and the HE is in at the top, out at the bottom.


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Most people that track their cars or are making any kind of big power usually have it in the following configuration.

Res > Pump > Intercooler > heat exchanger.


----------



## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

AJmustDIE said:


> Most people that track their cars or are making any kind of big power usually have it in the following configuration.
> 
> Res > Pump > Intercooler > heat exchanger.


 :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Mk4VRSex (Jun 18, 2011)

Woah, I love how that ic fits in there, which one is that?


----------



## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

Mk4VRSex said:


> Woah, I love how that ic fits in there, which one is that?


 Frozen boost 600hp


----------



## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

How much fluid does that reservoir hold? 

I've been looking to downgrade the big one in my trunk to a smaller unit. That one seems to fit the bill. Just curious if it's efficient. 

Are you running a temp gauge on your setup? 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

It holds 3 Gallons bought it off ebay for $100. It is efficent in my opinion it's filled to about 3 quarters with water wetter and water. If I remember correctly I have about a little less than 6 gallons in the system. 
No temp gauge but on occassion I monitor it with a handheld scanner. Worst I've seen was 122deg stuck on the L.I.E. for 2 hours. Best so far was 92deg day driving to Splish Splash 68deg driving 70mph. Around town here and there I play around with frozen poland spring bottles (2) in the reservoir they last about 4-5 hours and see 60deg intake temps.


----------



## Sharino (Aug 11, 2005)

did you run your hose below the car or thru the interior? 
Is your highest point the reservoir in the hatch vs the height from the ground of the intercooler? ie. when you open the fill cap of the reservoir, water doesnt pour out?


----------



## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

AJmustDIE said:


> Most people that track their cars or are making any kind of big power usually have it in the following configuration.
> 
> Res > Pump > Intercooler > heat exchanger.


 well this is not all true, a similar setup but without a radiator is the best for having ice in it all the time that is going to be ran down the 1/4 track, autox or at the dyno only. just a few seconds pure ice water through it and done, no need to have a radiator 

for a street track car with ice available all the time you can have it like that too but if its not going to have ice and will be daily driven I agree with dr.b. 

pump -> HE -> AWIC -> reservoir -> pump 


the pump as stated before gets very warm so make it push the water through the radiator to cool down and then up to the AWIC will work the best in my opinion. 

ideal would be to have it switch between how water is routed for the track where you want ice water straight to the AWIC and on the street where you daily drive the car and dont really have ice make it flow from the radiator straight to the AWIC. 


Ice dont really last long in there once water is flowing for track use (road course ) all ice in there will be gone by the end of the first lap. 1/4 mile and Autox you are fine with ice


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

I, for the life of me don't understand why somebody would decide to go Air/Water and NOT have the capability to run ice. So therefor, I do believe (personal opinion) my previously mentioned configuration is the best way to go.


----------



## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

Sharino said:


> did you run your hose below the car or thru the interior?
> Is your highest point the reservoir in the hatch vs the height from the ground of the intercooler? ie. when you open the fill cap of the reservoir, water doesnt pour out?


 The 5/8 aluminum line and 1/2 inch garden hose run along the underneath the car. 
The reservoir does not pour out, like i said before it is only 3/4 full so I have room to put in my frozen poland spring bottles . 
the fluid level in the reservoir is about equal to the height of the intercooler. If you can understand that. 

Today:


----------



## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

Highbeam2 said:


> It holds 3 Gallons bought it off ebay for $100. It is efficent in my opinion it's filled to about 3 quarters with water wetter and water. If I remember correctly I have about a little less than 6 gallons in the system.
> No temp gauge but on occassion I monitor it with a handheld scanner. Worst I've seen was 122deg stuck on the L.I.E. for 2 hours. Best so far was 92deg day driving to Splish Splash 68deg driving 70mph. Around town here and there I play around with frozen poland spring bottles (2) in the reservoir they last about 4-5 hours and see 60deg intake temps.


 Nice. You're in my neck of the woods so we share similar driving environments. 

What are the dimensions of that reservoir? I think I'm about to start surfing ebay. Also, would it be too much to ask for a closer pic of it mounted? I see you've got it in a cabrio. I want to compare mounting points in my Gti. 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

Just checked your profile. 

Also owned an 04 ZX10 until recently. Miss that thing 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

VRpoweredA2 said:


> Just checked your profile.
> 
> Also owned an 04 ZX10 until recently. Miss that thing
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


 Check the link on the build... Feel free to comment... 
Where are you located? 
Search 3 gallon fuel cell ebay :thumbup: metal/plastic pick your fancy


----------



## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

Highbeam2 said:


> Check the link on the build... Feel free to comment...
> Where are you located?
> Search 3 gallon fuel cell ebay :thumbup: metal/plastic pick your fancy


 Queens. 

Corona area. 

You? 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

VRpoweredA2 said:


> Queens.
> 
> Corona area.
> 
> ...


 just left there... 

Far Rockaway. A Trian baby...


----------



## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

Wait....I met you a few months back. Met you in parking lot of Target Gtg on Thursday. I didn't have my ride. Was off the road for a clutch. You'll remember me by face but we chatted about our zx10s. 

4" intake? How'd you make out with the ad lines and expansion valve? I'm having a biznitch of a time getting ac lines in. 

we gotta link up soon. NYC Boosted Dub GTG. :laugh:


----------



## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

Before we bore these ppl to death let's get back on topic... 

Sharino. You need a reservoir. And what are you running in you system? Coolant? Water wetter? Purple Ice? 
The Big Block guys is where I got a lot of research from.


----------



## Sharino (Aug 11, 2005)

Highbeam2 said:


> Before we bore these ppl to death let's get back on topic...
> 
> Sharino. You need a reservoir. And what are you running in you system? Coolant? Water wetter? Purple Ice?
> The Big Block guys is where I got a lot of research from.


 Just running pure water at the moment, i will install a frozenboost reservoir in my hatch as soon as it arrives. 

What do you recommend to run? I was just going to use OEM G12 with Redline water wetter. 
Only concern I have is how high in the hatch do I have to mount the reservoir, if its in the spare tire well, I cannot bleed the system properly.


----------



## ChrisAudi80 (Apr 18, 2011)

Sharino said:


> Just running pure water at the moment, i will install a frozenboost reservoir in my hatch as soon as it arrives.
> 
> What do you recommend to run? I was just going to use OEM G12 with Redline water wetter.
> Only concern I have is how high in the hatch do I have to mount the reservoir, if its in the spare tire well, I cannot bleed the system properly.


 Just run distilled water and maybe water wetter. It would be good if you could have a bleed point on top of one of your AWIC end tank, which ever end tank is highest. The reservoir will bleed just by opening it.


----------



## Highbeam2 (Jan 25, 2012)

ChrisAudi80 said:


> Just run distilled water and maybe water wetter. It would be good if you could have a bleed point on top of one of your AWIC end tank, which ever end tank is highest. The reservoir will bleed just by opening it.


 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

RO di water


----------



## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

AJmustDIE said:


> I, for the life of me don't understand why somebody would decide to go Air/Water and NOT have the capability to run ice. So therefor, I do believe (personal opinion) my previously mentioned configuration is the best way to go.


 it is not really necessary unless you top off the ice every few minutes ........ how many AWIC are in production cars and nowhere in the manual mentions run ice all the time!!! 

like I mentioned before ICE WONT LAST MORE THAN A FEW MINUTES....... do this simple test, put ice i=on the sink of your kitchen right under where the faucet pours water, cold water for the first part of the test, let it run over the ice and see how long it lasts.......... repeat with warm water. 



for a daily driver you are not stopping every few miles to top off your ice...... for the 1/4 mile track you dont need a radiator just a big reservoir with ice ..... even dry ice...... 



yes its nice to add ice but if you are not a track junkie it is not a requirement


----------



## VR SEX (Apr 2, 2002)

i've seen many people have greater success dropping temps with a 3 pass heat exchanger. It allows the water in the radiator/HE more time to cool down.


----------



## BiH (Nov 27, 2000)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Those dont flow a lot. I wouldnt use anything less then the 20gpm Meizere.


is this the pump youre talking about? 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEZ-WP136S/


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Thats it.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Thats it.


im using that same one mounted directly to the side of that frozen boost reservoir posted earlier and it works well. its not super quite but once its bled (theres a bleed screw on the side of the pump too to help prime the system the first time, dont forget to do that after install!) its really not too noisy.
i keep my system from circulating until it goes into extended periods of boost, to try to maintain lower temps as it seemed to keep the heat soak down if the thing wasnt constantly running.


----------



## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

I am using the cobra pump and it does a decent job, I tracked my R32 turbo on a 95-100*F weather and 15psi and it held up good. could pull out of the track and touch the IC and when driving on the street it is even colder because you are not constantly on it obviously. 
used to run both in line on my previous setup with even greater results, will add the second one later again. no ice just a big water radiator

got 2 of them for less than the price of the Meizere thats why I went with those. I have no experience with the meizere.


----------



## BiH (Nov 27, 2000)

so would i be ok with the cobra pump, short heat exchanger and two 7" fans with out a box? I wasnt planning on putting a box but if really makes the difference then I guess its a possibility. I have the same kit as OP!


----------



## dr. b (Jul 14, 2005)

BiH said:


> so would i be ok with the cobra pump, short heat exchanger and two 7" fans with out a box? I wasnt planning on putting a box but if really makes the difference then I guess its a possibility. I have the same kit as OP!


 any size reservoir is significantly better than nothing at all. you can start with nothing...and add more and more capacity to your system as you have the opportunity and you'll be able to track your IAT coming down.


----------

