# 07 Rabbit vs 08 Rabbit APR Tune



## sp3nt (Oct 3, 2008)

Looking to get APR's 2.5L tune for an 07 rabbit. APRs site say 180hp/201TQ for the 170hp model. 

Now the 07s are the 150hp engine, but reading around seems there was different manifold + ECU + cams in the 08 compared to the 07. So flashing an 07 should yield approximately what? 160hp/~200TQ? Just curious about this thanks.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

the 150 vs 170 hp has been talked and debated to death.. please search.
type in google:
site:forums.vwvortex.com 150 vs 170 hp 2.5L


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## MikexRich (Nov 30, 2009)

x2


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## vladjan (Oct 31, 2010)

*APR tune on a rabbit*

Hey, i got the apr tune on the 2007 rabbit manual... i raced a 2008 vw rabbit with 170 hp engine and an underdrive pulley... i smoked him.. Everything is stock oon my car besides the chip... So as they say 180hp and 201 torque for 170hp enginge i believe its the same for 2007's 150 hp engine.. The car became a monster with the apr tune... 201 torque and 180 hp on a tiny car is pretty good. 

I have the 91 octane program


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## BTDUBS (Jun 30, 2009)

Completely false, the 2008 has a revised intake mani which accounts the power increase. I would think an 08 chipped would still be faster.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Yup... 08's are quicker...not by much, but quicker... 
Sounds like you were facing off with someone who doesn't know how to drive...maybe auto? Full tank? Bunch of groceries?


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

and the pulley isn't going to do anything for him either, this modification is a wash unless you're putting down a lot more power.


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

I met up with a buddy last night. He is an 07 with the full ECU set at 94 octane. That car hauls ass! Felt way smoother than my 08 and with a corbonio and exhaust, that car roared. Worth it IMHO :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

First the tunes put the car no where near 180hp... Buddy of mine dyno'd his 08 Rabbit with Uni stage 2, carbonio, awe catback and ej headers, with 93 oct the car only made 182whp and IIRC 200 something tq. He felt that without the header and test pipe he wouldve made around 8-12whp less... So this leads to my opinion on APR for us anyway, that if you think you may eventually get a sri, go c2 or UM because they have sri software that can be later bought as a upgrade. GIAC,APR,REVO,UNI, do not have sri files. 

But APR on GTI's or anything with a turbo, thats a diffrent story, for those they have it perfected


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## vladjan (Oct 31, 2010)

*APR*

Well he did have an automatic, but raced from a red light. I would pull away everytime i would get near 4000 or 5000 rpm. Also, I think on stock its 5500 rpm where it is limited. Mine is at 6500 so maybe that can cause the difference... who knows i am no expert  
All i know is that the car feels totally different after the apr tune. 

I've only been driving manual for about 12k miles so im perfect at shifting yet, so the extra power i have definitely was the reason for me smoking him.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

vladjan said:


> Well he did have an automatic, but raced from a red light. I would pull away everytime i would get near 4000 or 5000 rpm. Also, I think on stock its 5500 rpm where it is limited. Mine is at 6500 so maybe that can cause the difference... who knows i am no expert
> All i know is that the car feels totally different after the apr tune.
> 
> I've only been driving manual for about 12k miles so im perfect at shifting yet, so the extra power i have definitely was the reason for me smoking him.


 Ya you can def. notice a difference after a tune, but not as much as you do in the 2.0t's, its like maybe wheelspin if you try, to after flash you just press the gas and spin tire in 2nd or 3rd. I did a nice little 3rd gear burnout last night


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

you can spin the wheels on dry pavement in 3rd gear going in a straight line? are you tuned with an intake and possibly exhaust? or more? you're tuned with C2 right? 

i don't think i can come close to breaking the tires in 3rd gear while accelerating from a complete stop and running through the gears. i've heard that even though i'm on a 93 tune from United i may have more power than the standard 93 tune because it's set up for my larger injectors. :laugh: Jeff at UM said the flex fuel tune is ready to go as he hasn't seen the issues in other cars that are running the same software. leads me to believe it was my car for one reason or another. only problem is that there's basically only one gas station selling e85 out here in MA, and it'll take probably a full gallon of gas to get over there to fill up! i may just stick with the gas software...i'm really happy with it.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> you can spin the wheels on dry pavement in 3rd gear going in a straight line? are you tuned with an intake and possibly exhaust? or more? you're tuned with C2 right?
> 
> i don't think i can come close to breaking the tires in 3rd gear while accelerating from a complete stop and running through the gears. i've heard that even though i'm on a 93 tune from United i may have more power than the standard 93 tune because it's set up for my larger injectors. :laugh: Jeff at UM said the flex fuel tune is ready to go as he hasn't seen the issues in other cars that are running the same software. leads me to believe it was my car for one reason or another. only problem is that there's basically only one gas station selling e85 out here in MA, and it'll take probably a full gallon of gas to get over there to fill up! i may just stick with the gas software...i'm really happy with it.


 I has Uni 2+, ej header, tt exhaust, my own intake I shifted at 7100rpm to 3rd and the tires broke loose  Ya Im going with the UM e85 once my bags are done


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## gonyofam3 (Oct 2, 2007)

Maybe this will help. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3660884


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I has Uni 2+, ej header, tt exhaust, my own intake I shifted at 7100rpm to 3rd and the tires broke loose  Ya Im going with the UM e85 once my bags are done


 hell yeah man, good sh*t!! have any pics of your intake? i made my own as well, but i'd like to either replace it with something like a neuspeed or modify it further myself. wish i had a heat shield... 

did you install the header yourself or take it to a shop? go for the e85 as long as you have easy access for the gas. the power difference between standard 93 and e85 is great. :thumbup:


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I has Uni 2+, ej header, tt exhaust, my own intake I shifted at 7100rpm to 3rd and the tires broke loose  Ya Im going with the UM e85 once my bags are done


 7100rpm?
Unitronic set the rev limiter that high?
Power would've fallen off well before then. 
I'm confused..


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I has Uni 2+, ej header, tt exhaust, my own intake I shifted at 7100rpm to 3rd and the tires broke loose  Ya Im going with the UM e85 once my bags are done


 What kind of tires?


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## Vash350z (Jun 25, 2007)

BTDUBS said:


> Completely false, the 2008 has a revised intake mani which accounts the power increase. I would think an 08 chipped would still be faster.


 Actually your information is the only false info in this thread


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DriveVW4Life said:


> 7100rpm?
> Unitronic set the rev limiter that high?
> Power would've fallen off well before then.
> I'm confused..


 Ya I actually dont have a rev limiter. The motor pulls all the way to 6500 which was the limiter and I knew it could pull further so I had a reflash with the limiter off. I tried to see how high it would go with stock intake mani, and It wont go over 7400 in gear, rev it still wont go over 5k 
With the stock intake mani 7100~ is the absolute perfect shift point. How you spin tire, at ~68-6900 press the gas further and pop the clutch and the rpms rise and engage at 7100 and the wheels break loose.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> hell yeah man, good sh*t!! have any pics of your intake? i made my own as well, but i'd like to either replace it with something like a neuspeed or modify it further myself. wish i had a heat shield...
> 
> did you install the header yourself or take it to a shop? go for the e85 as long as you have easy access for the gas. the power difference between standard 93 and e85 is great. :thumbup:


 Ya I do all the work myself. I had evo header that I sold when I had the car fs. So the longer studs I kept on the car which is an easy process to change out, you just double up 2 nuts and then loosen on the front nut and they turn right out. The ej header is alot nicer for speed, the evo is better for mid range power, and great acc. I have a e85 station by my apt, and by my work, so Im getting the flash, I was just waiting to hear whats up with you and that ohter guys problems before I associated with the tune!lol


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

you might want to just drop Jeff a line via Vortex and ask to get the flex fuel tune. he requested a full freeze frame vag scan on my car to see if there's something else going on because a few others have been running the tune without issue. as much as i like the added power with e85, now that i'm in boston it's a royal pain to actually fill up with the stuff. it's not much cheaper out here either, so it'll just end up costing me quite a bit more money on top of the hassle to get it. probably just going to stay on the 93 tune for a while and add goodies to the engine down the road.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

I'd like to see 7,100rpm in action. 
Sounds like fun. 
Any videos?


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## BTDUBS (Jun 30, 2009)

Vash350z said:


> Actually your information is the only false info in this thread


 Ok, how? The intake mani, software, valve seals were all changed. Car companies are not just in the habit of changing an ecu and calling it a ay, they want to make it harder for people to just chip their cars and have the "same" thing, so hardware gets tweaked. Its a selling point so John Q Public doesn't get pissed when his advertised advantage is negated by a $400 tune. Search the web, it is everywhere.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

unitronic rev limit at 7100?? 
spinning tires in 3rd? 
apr being "perfect"? 

basing myself on friends experiences with APR, they are far from perfect.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> unitronic rev limit at 7100??
> spinning tires in 3rd?
> apr being "perfect"?
> 
> basing myself on friends experiences with APR, they are far from perfect.


 No rev limit since 08- 6 weeks UM E85 no rev limit 
Falkens very easy to do 
APR is perfect, maybe not for "crappy" 2.5's.. I see lots of people get flashed with my own eyes and NEVER seen anyone less than amazed eace: Come on tho, Ive heard of people paying for a certain companies software and later finding out they dont even have a flash, weather it be DSG or ECU.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> No rev limit since 08- 6 weeks UM E85 no rev limit
> Falkens very easy to do
> APR is perfect, maybe not for "crappy" 2.5's.. I see lots of people get flashed with my own eyes and NEVER seen anyone less than amazed eace: Come on tho, Ive heard of people paying for a certain companies software and later finding out they dont even have a flash, weather it be DSG or ECU.


 I like my apr, but will be switching to um or c2 once I get the turbo installed...apr is great for people that just want easy use,vagcom free cel deletes etc. its really not going to be the highest out put of power, but its good for people that just want a bit more oomph.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TylerO28 said:


> I like my apr, but will be switching to um or c2 once I get the turbo installed...apr is great for people that just want easy use,vagcom free cel deletes etc. its really not going to be the highest out put of power, but its good for people that just want a bit more oomph.


 Yea for the rabbit and any other n/a car... I still feel it is the best option for the 2.0t, 3.0t, supercharged V8 Audis, anything force induced :thumbup: APR got it right... MFD switchable maps, CEL delete, Valet setting, OBD flashed upgrades regularly, you really cant beat them


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

Don't forget about REVO though, they have a ton of options and regular updates. I think the 2.5 is one of the only engines they aren't pushing boundaries with. In the Audi market, APR has had it's share of rich codes that people couldn't overcome, exhaust rust problems, and weak snub mounts. I was very much against APR products a couple yrs ago, but this is slowly changing. I still think they're way overpriced in comparison to just about all other tuners....I mean when was the last time you used valet mode? I'm willing to bet maybe one time if that. Just a waste of money for the loaded ecu IMO.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

LampyB said:


> Don't forget about REVO though, they have a ton of options and regular updates. I think the 2.5 is one of the only engines they aren't pushing boundaries with. In the Audi market, APR has had it's share of rich codes that people couldn't overcome, exhaust rust problems, and weak snub mounts. I was very much against APR products a couple yrs ago, but this is slowly changing. I still think they're way overpriced in comparison to just about all other tuners....I mean when was the last time you used valet mode? I'm willing to bet maybe one time if that. Just a waste of money for the loaded ecu IMO.


 thats sort of my take too... i mean, i dont let valets drive the car anyways... the car is mine, and i drive it 99% of the time... all i need is 93 oct and i'm good.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I put my car in valet when teaching my fiance to drive a manual... And it was kinda fun when I forgot to take it off and tried to drive to work... Whoa talk about sketchy! 

The only reason I got the fully loaded set up is because apr does regular sales. Its basically free to them anyway,i figure they should just make it fully loaded for everyone... 

The lock out, and throttle body adaption is nice though I use thatand the security gas pedal deactivation regularly... I really dig that option, because when im on vacation and leave my keys at home I know that no body can take my car...


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Up here by me we've got ALOT of people switching to APR from UNI, and all the others. My buddy just went from Uni on his wolfy, to APR stg 2 and says the linear power is soo much better, as well as tq and mileage. I cant speak to APR on Rabbits, I just see what they do to GTI's and other turbo'd cars  Im in the same boat as Greyt I just need one file 93oct, none of those facy pants features.


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## PhAyzoN (Nov 29, 2010)

I looked at APR's tune before since it was the first one I discovered when I got my 2.5. I ended up getting a Unitronic tune from 20squared. Wish I could've gotten C2's tune, but the nearest C2 dealer to me is NLS which is about an hour away and I can't make time for that


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## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

How does everyone feel about GIAC tunes? Thats the only one in my immediate area


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

cbs_24 said:


> How does everyone feel about GIAC tunes? Thats the only one in my immediate area


 Meh...not one of my first choices...they arent bad by any means, but I look at companies that can see the potential of the 2.5
Apr even doesn't do much for it...imo go with um, c2 or uni


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## Vash350z (Jun 25, 2007)

BTDUBS said:


> Ok, how? The intake mani, software, valve seals were all changed. Car companies are not just in the habit of changing an ecu and calling it a ay, they want to make it harder for people to just chip their cars and have the "same" thing, so hardware gets tweaked. Its a selling point so John Q Public doesn't get pissed when his advertised advantage is negated by a $400 tune. Search the web, it is everywhere.


 Proof that these parts were changed?


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

cbs_24 said:


> How does everyone feel about GIAC tunes? Thats the only one in my immediate area


 GIAC has great software, just nothing special for the 2.5L platform. i was running GIAC on my Audi B6 1.8T...its much more popular amongst the Audi crowd in comparison to VW, whereas companies like C2 and Unitronic are huge with VW and not nearly as popular with Audi. My buddy in Denver at one point may have had the fastest B6 Audi A4 K04 in the country running GIAC. he's now fully built and somewhere around 400AWHP on GIAC. they offer very good software, aside from the lack of support for the 2.5L engine it's mainly going to come down to which software your local shop offers because they're the ones you'll look to for support. 

EDIT: It's not a lack of support for the 2.5 engine with GIAC, it's rather that the company hasn't demonstrated interest in further developing this platform. Would I go GIAC on my Rabbit, most likely not. Would I give GIAC a shot on the 2.0T platform, absolutely.


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## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

LampyB said:


> Would I go GIAC on my Rabbit, most likely not.




Even if they were the only one around?


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

cbs_24 said:


> Even if they were the only one around?


if GIAC is the only software accessible nearby by all means go for it. just be sure to ask them what the 2.5l tune includes....ie removal of the rpm rev hang, increasing idle to about 750/800 rpm's, as well as adding power. i don't know too much about GIAC's software for the 2.5l, so this is why i'm suggesting you ask.

either way GIAC is a very solid tuner, you don't have anything to worry about here. the only other thing to take into consideration is what you have planned for future modifications. going beyond an exhaust, intake, and software you may be limited with GIAC on the 2.5l tune. just ask your tuner about upgrade paths with the software if you do have other mods planned for the future. when i get another audi in a year or so i will be going back with GIAC...their software was fantastic on my Audi Ultrasport.


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## vladjan (Oct 31, 2010)

*apr*

i turned off my APR chip yesterday... the car felt like a honda civic.... completely different. Just realized how huge the gain is even for the 2.5. Obviously not as much as 2.0T but still very significant difference...

I am realllllllyy surprised

best 500 i spent on the car


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