# E85 with an 07 Rabbit



## crazyblue1211 (Oct 25, 2007)

I know the book and the dealership say to run the car on nothing less then 89 octane. Is it possible to run the car on E85 or would it cause more problems then its worth? Any help or information would be great help.


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## mobitsfa (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (crazyblue1211)*

The book says it's rated for 87 octane. And no don't run a rabbit on e85.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3853852


_Modified by mobitsfa at 9:27 AM 7-1-2008_


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## daemontrym (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (crazyblue1211)*

The book on my 08 says a minimum of 87octane fuel which i have been running without problems since I got the car. E85 is infact cheaper then regular gas but only 80% as efficient. The problem with E85 is you need special fuel lines, injectors, and a tune to be able to run flex fuel. It can be done without much hassle but would be very time consuming since no one has an engine flash for it. 
What E85 does is eats at conventional gas lines and hoses because of its alcohol content.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (crazyblue1211)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazyblue1211* »_I know the book and the dealership say to run the car on nothing less then 89 octane. Is it possible to run the car on E85 or would it cause more problems then its worth? Any help or information would be great help.

No such a thing as "89 Octane" here in the states (unless you're at altitude up in the Rockies). What you're referring to is the Anti Knock Index (AKI) as referenced in your Owner's Manual and as is stated on the side of every pump. FWIW, if your dealership is telling you to run nothing less than 89 AKI, I'd ask them to put that in writing, and then have them explain why your Owner's Manual states that your car needs 87 AKI fuel.
That said, when it comes to E85, the anti detonation properties aren't the issue. What IS at issue is the formulation of the fuel, and that's where you'll run into problems if you burn E85 in a Rabbit. Fuel that is labeled E85 is 85% ethanol by volume with the remaining 15% being gasoline, and the issue at hand is that ethanol is far more corrosive than gasoline, and unless your entire fuel system is designed and built with components that don't react to fuel with such a high ethanol content, it will fail at some point if E85 is used.
Long story short, you should never fill your tank with E85.


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## crazyblue1211 (Oct 25, 2007)

I was mistaken I meant 87. I put 89 or premium in. sorry


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (crazyblue1211)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazyblue1211* »_I was mistaken I meant 87. I put 89 or premium in. sorry

Why would you do that?








Running a higher AKI fuel in an engine not designed to take advantage of the extra detonation resistance will net you exactly nothing as far as power and economy, is concerned. That said, using 89 AKI or higher fuel WILL deflate your wallet quicker.


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## crazyblue1211 (Oct 25, 2007)

A most gas stations here the 87 and 89 are the same price. As far as milage goes I haven't seen a difference with either. I avg about 250 to 300 miles on a tank and thats combined city and highway


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

runs it just fine. e-85 all the way just gets less mpg


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*

Yup, it'll run reasonably well until you run into a line, seal or injector failure due to the corrosive nature of the Ethanol.


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## caj1 (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rangerbrown* »_runs it just fine. e-85 all the way just gets less mpg

As it quickly corrodes your fuel system


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_
No such a thing as "89 Octane" here in the states 

There's 89 octane here in Georgia. I see it everywhere. do a quick google search and you get pumps with 89 offered on them


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## vince557 (Feb 18, 2006)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_
No such a thing as "89 Octane" here in the states 

up here in new england we have 89 where have you been. even nh has 89


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (vince557)*

we got 89 down here in VA, they also got it in TX.
so everyone reading this knows. if you drive a 2.5 and are NOT chipped, do NOT put anything other than 87 in your car. unless of course you like paying more for gas while its already too damn expensive.
if that is the case Please let me know, ill let you fill my car up whenever you'd like.


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: (caj1)*

no it doesnt, that would be bio D
_Quote, originally posted by *caj1* »_
As it quickly corrodes your fuel system


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (MKVJET08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dumbassmozart* »_There's 89 octane here in Georgia. I see it everywhere. do a quick google search and you get pumps with 89 offered on them


_Quote, originally posted by *vince557* »_up here in new england we have 89 where have you been. even nh has 89


_Quote, originally posted by *MKVJET08* »_we got 89 down here in VA, they also got it in TX.
so everyone reading this knows. if you drive a 2.5 and are NOT chipped, do NOT put anything other than 87 in your car. unless of course you like paying more for gas while its already too damn expensive.
if that is the case Please let me know, ill let you fill my car up whenever you'd like.


Come on folks, you responded to my post _WITHOUT_ even reading the entire thing, or for that matter reading what is written on your local gasoline pumps.
FACT: Shy of elevations below ~5,000 MSL, no gasoline pump in America sells "89 Octane Fuel", not in Georgia, Texas, or even here in New Hampshire where I live.
FACT: When you find a pump that says "89" on it, if you read the fine print you'll see that what it really means is "89 AKI"
FACT: The American system of listing the "Anti-Knock Index" (AKI) is an _AVERAGE_ of two different Octane numbers.
The formula is: (MON + RON) / 2
MON = "Motor Octane Number"
RON = "Research Octane Number"
Clear???


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rangerbrown* »_no it doesnt, that would be bio D

Sorry, you are misinformed. E85 is waaaay more corrosive than either Gasoline, E10 (i.e. gasoline with 10% ethanol) or Bio-Diesel.


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## B3PassatGLX (Apr 1, 2005)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*

you use methanol to break down used vegetable oil to make bio diesel, fuel lines are petroleum based but regardless an alcohol such as ethanol or methanol will have corrosive effects on them. It will chemically remove water and functional groups from the molecules comprising your fuel lines. Do some more research if you don't believe us or enjoy replacing all the o-rings and fuel lines on your fuel system some time down the road. It is your car.


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: (shipo)*

really, funny been useing it in my cars for years and no issues.

and after serching the internet i cant find any major issues of corrosion that you speak of so....


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## caj1 (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rangerbrown* »_really, funny been useing it in my cars for years and no issues.

and after serching the internet i cant find any major issues of corrosion that you speak of so....

Only a matter of time. and kiss any form of a motor warranty goodbye.


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

ha ha funny i voided that the second it left the dealer, at least on the rabbit

the 95 suburban has been runing it for the last 123k and the new bettle for the last 80k and the rabbit about a 50/50 mix for the past 15k only problem is right now is that ny and ct dont sell the stuff


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rangerbrown* »_...and after serching the internet i cant find any major issues of corrosion that you speak of so....

Uhhh, yeah, not even remotely surprising that you haven't found any issues on the internet. Why? Oh, I don't know... How about, 99.9% of folks without E85 compatible cars use either gasoline or E10? Yup, that should do it.


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## B3PassatGLX (Apr 1, 2005)

start with this article
"for E85, which is the declared concentration as alternative fuel, and Ee95, which is designed for high compression engines, modification is needed. When gasoline-only powered vehicles are loaded up with ethanol fuel, its computer systems, designed to read limited amounts of oxygen (ethanol contains greater amounts of oxygen), can be destroyed, thus creating engine problems"
http://www.cleanairtrust.org/D....html
5 minutes with google can find a lot, I did also find that modern engines aren't using rubber in fuel systems so that may be less of an issue in new cars.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_
Come on folks, you responded to my post _WITHOUT_ even reading the entire thing, or for that matter reading what is written on your local gasoline pumps.
FACT: Shy of elevations below ~5,000 MSL, no gasoline pump in America sells "89 Octane Fuel", not in Georgia, Texas, or even here in New Hampshire where I live.
FACT: When you find a pump that says "89" on it, if you read the fine print you'll see that what it really means is "89 AKI"
FACT: The American system of listing the "Anti-Knock Index" (AKI) is an _AVERAGE_ of two different Octane numbers.
The formula is: (MON + RON) / 2
MON = "Motor Octane Number"
RON = "Research Octane Number"
Clear???









So nobody sells 87 or 93 octane gas either. It's all an illusion ladies and gents *wavy hands*


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (dumbassmozart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dumbassmozart* »_
So nobody sells 87 or 93 octane gas either. It's all an illusion ladies and gents *wavy hands* 

You're correct, they don't.
- If the pump says 87, then the fuel you're buying has a nominal Research Octane of 91-92.
- If the pump says 89, then the fuel you're buying has a nominal Research Octane of 93-94.
- If the pump says 91, then the fuel you're buying has a nominal Research Octane of 95-96.
- If the pump says 93, then the fuel you're buying has a nominal Research Octane of 97-98.
If you don't believe me, please, read the side of the pump the next time you fill up your car.


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## B3PassatGLX (Apr 1, 2005)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_
You're correct, they don't.
- If the pump says 87, then the fuel you're buying has a nominal Research Octane of 91-92.
- If the pump says 89, then the fuel you're buying has a nominal Research Octane of 93-94.
- If the pump says 91, then the fuel you're buying has a nominal Research Octane of 95-96.
- If the pump says 93, then the fuel you're buying has a nominal Research Octane of 97-98.
If you don't believe me, please, read the side of the pump the next time you fill up your car.

Did you go out and read a gas pump to get those numbers?


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (B3PassatGLX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3PassatGLX* »_
Did you go out and read a gas pump to get those numbers?

No, those numbers were off the top of my head, however, if you take a look at the following links, you'll see that I was pretty close:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrol
http://www.caymanclub.net/caym....html
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums....html
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/faq/new_faq/FAQ.4
You might also want to check your Owner's Manual for your fuel requirements.


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## B3PassatGLX (Apr 1, 2005)

No need, I was aware of the oddities of the rating system, I was just surprised you could just quote them like that


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## Lower it!! (Aug 1, 2007)

*Re: (B3PassatGLX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3PassatGLX* »_No need, I was aware of the oddities of the rating system, I was just surprised you could just quote them like that

its called being a know it all.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_
If you don't believe me, please, read the side of the pump the next time you fill up your car.

I believe you, but it sounded like you were singling out 89 before.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: E85 with an 07 Rabbit (dumbassmozart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dumbassmozart* »_
I believe you, but it sounded like you were singling out 89 before.

Singling it out? No, I was just using it as the example because that was the number that was being bandied about. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## B3PassatGLX (Apr 1, 2005)

I feel you should reconsider and start sinling out 89 for all of it wretchedness.


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