# Left Side Battery Replacement Questions



## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

**UPDATE* Left Side Battery Replacement Questions*

New updated post at bottom of thread.
My Phaeton doesn't get driven much and last trip to the opera I turned "off" the lights by putting the dial in the vertical position. Unfortunately for me that position turns the lights off on our Mercedes -- not the Phaeton.
So now the battery is shot and I would like to replace it. I read Michaels description of the moving the relay box to enable removal of the battery, but realized there may be some sequence that needs to be followed to not put any electrical systems on the fritz.
Can I just leave the starter battery hooked up or, well, what should I do/sequence should I follow to avoid problems?
Also, does anyone know how much a dealer "should" be charging me for the battery, and how much they'll charge me in labour for the install? I plan to do it myself, but if the charge is reasonable I may not bother.
Finally, it is an '05 V8 manufactured in the middle of '04 (I believe) -- should I go ahead and replace the starter battery now as well, or can I hope to get another year or two out of it?
Thank you in advance!
New updated post at bottom of thread.


_Modified by faterikcartman at 4:18 PM 2-24-2010_


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Left Side Battery Replacement Questions (faterikcartman)*

i had my left side battery replaced about a year ago and i watched the shop (not a dealer) do it. the starter battery was not disconnected, the hardest part seemed to be lifting the battery out (fits tightley in there and isn't feather light). as i recall the battery, from vw, was about $175.00. i have an 04 and am still on the starter battery which was there when i got the car used 3 years ago, so i assume it's the original. no problems.


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Left Side Battery Replacement Questions (calmone)*

No problem to do it yourself. Simply don't disconnect the right battery during the process. When the left battery is removed, the car memory will switch to the right battery to keep its settings.
P.


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Left Side Battery Replacement Questions (calmone)*

I replaced mine a few months ago with a non-VW battery; I looked up the Varta number equivalent and found one at a nearby battery store for about $135 (I think).
The trickiest part (for me) was removing the plastic fuse panel, it has two levers on the back sides that you have to squeeze while also trying to lift up and out - see this post: Relay Panel (fuse panel) in trunk - how to release it


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

_Quote »_
i had my left side battery replaced about a year ago and i watched the shop (not a dealer) do it. the starter battery was not disconnected

Interestingly, the VW service guide suggests you remove the RHS battery before the LHS one.
Harry


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prince Ludwig* »_
Interestingly, the VW service guide suggests you remove the RHS battery before the LHS one.
Harry

Harry, if you have access to the service guide and have read the pertinent section, perhaps you could share how I should proceed?


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prince Ludwig* »_
Interestingly, the VW service guide suggests you remove the RHS battery before the LHS one.
Harry

Maybe this is when you plan to remove both batteries ?
Because I clearly recall having read a post by Michael saying that removing both batteries would clear some settings... and personally, I wouldn't like to go through readapting many systems...
Suppose your left battery dies but not the right one... You will be in the same case as if you had removed the left battery without removing the right one...
Removing the RHS battery in order to change the left one doesn't make any sense...
P.


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

Well I just took out the old/dead left side accessory systems battery. What I found upset me. It was not an OEM/VW AGM battery, rather, it was a wet Interstate battery (720A).
I am the original owner and have only had it serviced at the dealer where I purchased it. At some point -- either in service or on the showroom floor -- they let the battery die and replaced it with the Interstate wet battery. I was never notified of the change and, after reading of all the battery related bugaboos here, am very P*****-off about it.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *faterikcartman* »_Well I just took out the old/dead left side accessory systems battery. What I found upset me. It was not an OEM/VW AGM battery, rather, it was a wet Interstate battery (720A).
I am the original owner and have only had it serviced at the dealer where I purchased it. At some point -- either in service or on the showroom floor -- they let the battery die and replaced it with the Interstate wet battery. I was never notified of the change and, after reading of all the battery related bugaboos here, am very P*****-off about it.

Good grief! I'd be pissed off too. It sounds as if many of the dealers don't have much experience with that type of battery. Mine was changed a few weeks ago, and after changing the left battery and not solving the problem, they moved on to the right side and told me that the two batteries were identical.... I replied that in that case, I'd be happy to pay twice the price of the RHS battery for both, and after a quick price check he rapidly started back-tracking.
By the "vertical" position on the switch, do you mean the middle position or the far right position? I never move mine from the middle, which I think is the vertical position, although the far right might be vertical, I never touch it so I don't know for sure.
The price for my LHS battery was $262 for the part and $90 labour which included the diagnosis of the memory issue. I think he went easy on me after I went pop about the tech's confusion over the battery types.


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

I guess over to the right a little, but it was late enough and I was tired enough that I got mixed up with the Mercedes' verticle off and the Phaeton's courtesy lights when you shut down.


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## heisenberg2000 (Mar 26, 2008)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*

I had to replace my left batterie recently too. And my car as well had a "wet" batterie installed. There was no way anymore to find out where the change had happened.
I got my replacement from our local Audi dealer. 
The batterie was actually $ 60.00 less than from VW. 
One more think. While performing the swap, I had the batterie maintainer clamps connected to the batterie clamps ( there is ample place in the trunk to do that ) Afterwards nothing needed to be reset or learned.
Gernot


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: (heisenberg2000)*

Gernot, getting the battery from Audi and saving money sounds great, if only I knew which battery to get. Without an original I'm kind of stumped.
Michael here has posted a picture of an 860 amp batter that came with his W12, but the VW dealer today told me the correct battery was 520 amps. Not sure why they would be different on the accessories battery for my V8 -- they're the same accessories??? Of course, this is the same VW parts guy who told me he had the batter in stock when I called on the phone only to not have it when I showed up because when I told him three times "NOT the starter batter, the left side accessories battery" he thought he knew better, but, of course, only had the starter battery.
It would be great if someone could tell me what is the real correct battery for my car.


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## adamkodish (Mar 5, 2006)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*

You need a battary like the Varta AGM 95Ah 850A cold start:
http://pmd.varta-automotive.co...53332
Adam


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## sachverhalte (Sep 16, 2007)

The local VW dealer just quoted $450 to replace both batteries, including labor.
Bob


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## heisenberg2000 (Mar 26, 2008)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*

The number for the batterie is 000 915 105 CE.
However there is something special about ordering / finding this part number in the catalog,
since this part gets "drop shipped". 
The part guys first could not find this part number in the book. They have to add an extension to the part number (like the color code).
Once the found the number, my dealer did not have it. However there part locator (every dealer has it) found it at a local Audi dealer.
Hope that helps.
Gernot


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

Thanks Gernot, that is the 860 amp battery Michael posted. As noted, the dealer's parts guy told me it is a 520A battery for both the W12 and V8. I find it distressing that I get this conflicting info from VW. Then again, another VW dealer had my car for almost five weeks just to fix the Home Link system. Not a good sign.


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## Godsson314 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Re: Left Side Battery Replacement Questions (faterikcartman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *faterikcartman* »_My Phaeton doesn't get driven much and last trip to the opera I turned "off" the lights by putting the dial in the vertical position. Unfortunately for me that position turns the lights off on our Mercedes -- not the Phaeton.
Thank you in advance!

I am sorry for the problems you have had, and I would be pissed off too. I Have had similar questions, and was researching online. Please let us (or me to be more specific) what you decide and how it was done as I will be looking into this soon. I had a battery die on my 7 series and it was just a horrible experience, I never want to repeat again.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (sachverhalte)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sachverhalte* »_The local VW dealer just quoted $450 to replace both batteries, including labor.

That's not entirely out of line. I purchased a left battery from the local VW dealer a month ago, and the battery alone was $200. In some localities, there is a pretty hefty tax levied for disposal of the old battery.
It is not particularly difficult to replace either battery by yourself, but it takes a fair amount of time (and a comprehensive set of tools) to replace either one - it's not just "pull the old one out and stick the new one in". There are some pictures that illustrate the process involved in replacing the left battery at this post: Relay Panel (fuse panel) in trunk - how to release it. You might need to scroll around a bit in that post to find the part that deals with relay panel and battery removal - it is towards the bottom of the first page.
There is also some excellent documentation (including photos) showing how to loosen the battery paralleling relay towards the bottom of page 1 of this post: Location of and access to 'right plenum chamber' fusebox. It is usually necessary to remove the two bolts that hold the paralleling relay in place, then move the relay out of the way, in order to be able to lift the old battery out and put the new one in.
Michael


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I was able to remove it no problem and thank you for the tips I found by searching. Michael, can you confirm the battery is the same for the V8 and W12. Any idea where the dealer parts guy I spoke with pulled up a 520A battery?


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

I think the battery you want is one that conforms to the DIN 595 901 085 standards (they're usually about 95Ah).
Harry


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*

CORRECTED POST - THANKS MIKE AKA n968412L!

My UK garage gave me the following details on the two batteries fitted to my MY2005 3.0TDI:
LH AGM battery is 92Ah and 520A VW reference 00915105CE
RH standard starter battery is 61AH and 330A VW reference 000915105AD

PETER M



_Modified by PeterMills at 1:38 PM 2-22-2010_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *faterikcartman* »_...Michael, can you confirm the battery is the same for the V8 and W12...

Hi Erik:
I can't confirm that. I suspect that the left battery specification is the same for the NAR W12 and NAR V8, but I don't know for sure.
All I can do is post a picture of the left side battery in my NAR W12 (below).
Michael


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

What is fascinating is that VW tells me that numbered battery is 520A, yet whether you measure by DIN or SAE standards the battery itself does not say 520A. 
Thank you.
I stopped off at Audi today and they actually wanted $60 MORE for the battery -- DOH! VW says zero inventory in their distribution centers but a couple of dealers locally "reportedly" have one in stock. About $190. I'll try tomorrow.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I can confirm that my 2004 NAR V8 has the same battery Michael has, 000 915 105 CE. It even has a similar tear on the label. 
Damon 


_Modified by dlouie at 1:30 AM 2-23-2010_


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*

My VW dealer in Pittsburgh quoted $140 last week - I ended up not buying it, though, because mine seems to be going strong. They said they need 3-5 days advance notice to get a fresh one. Also, my Phaeton Tech Larry confirmed that it's ok to leave the battery charger connected to the cable terminals while replacing it.
Stefano


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

*Re: (PeterMills)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeterMills* »_CORRECTED POST - THANKS MIKE AKA n968412L!

_Modified by PeterMills at 1:38 PM 2-22-2010_

Pleasure - thanks for the useful UK info!
M


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: (n968412L)*

Okay folks, I finally got the battery -- part number as specified above.
Here's a couple of things to note. First, Michael's battery is rated 860A SAE/480 DIN. The new battery I received is the same part number but rated 850A SAE/520 DIN.
The Interstate battery the dealer previously installed was rated 720A. This is an American battery so I am sure that is not the DIN spec. 
Thus, the battery installed by the dealer was underrated for the car.
Does that matter? Yes, I think so. On several previous occasions I've complained to the dealer that my key fob won't work unless my car is in a garage or parked next to a wall or I feel around the car with the fob until I find the sweet spot and it activates (from about 10" away).
Needless to say the dealer told me no fault codes so everything is okay. Of course they also told me my Home-Link must be fine because there were no fault codes when it clearly didn't work and even the lights would not activate. I finally convinced them that they were wrong and it didn't work and after leaving the car with them for over a month (not the first time by the way) they finally fixed it. Pathetic.
With the new battery for the first time since I bought it the key fob works from 20' away and I am very happy with the car, not so much with the dealer.








If you've had electrical gremlins you may want to check to make sure a dealer or service shop didn't kill your battery and switch out to the wrong one. This may have happened due to them often being a special order item and not available on hand.
Moreover, a different dealer actually told me the wet Interstate battery was better than the stock AGM battery and was the battery they recommended people buy. Maybe they are confused by the Interstate's 720A SAE rating and think the VAG's 520 DIN rating is lower.

_Modified by faterikcartman at 4:19 PM 2-24-2010_


_Modified by faterikcartman at 5:03 PM 2-24-2010_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *faterikcartman* »_...Michael's battery is rated 860A SAE/480 DIN. The new battery I received is the same part number but rated 850A SAE/520 DIN.

Hi Erik:
That difference might be very innocent - it could be something as simple as a change in the standard used to rate the battery. In other words, the battery itself is absolutely identical to what it used to be 5 years ago, but the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) and DIN (German Industrial Norm) standards may have been revised since the first battery was introduced, and as a result of the change in the standard, the battery is now getting a different rating.
That kind of thing happens occasionally in my industry (aerospace) - all of a sudden, a tire that has been rated at xxx pounds weight-bearing capacity or xxx MPH speed capacity since the Old King died suddenly changes a tiny bit in one direction or another - almost invariably, this is because the standard used by the industry to rate the product has changed, rather than the object itself having changed.
Michael


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

That makes sense Michael. My main point is not to trust your dealer to hook you up with the correct battery!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (faterikcartman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *faterikcartman* »_That makes sense Michael. My main point is not to trust your dealer to hook you up with the correct battery!









Indeed. The tech working on mine told the service rep that the two batteries were identical.


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## BltVWF (Oct 19, 2009)

*Re: (invisiblewave)*

Greetings!
Replaced left battery on my 04. The tabs to remove the relay box were, as expected, broken off. The battery was original. Replaced it with Remy battery, exact fit (group 49), $174.00 delivered:
http://www.remybattery.com/Dep....aspx.
The dealer quoted $190.00 for the battery and 1 hr labor, the total about $320.00 with taxes.
Remy battery is noticeably lighter. The voltmeter on the instrument cluster "jumped" to 14v immediately; with old battery it was a a very relaxed travel, so to speak








Eugene


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## faterikcartman (Dec 22, 2005)

Thanks for reminding me -- the only tab connecting my relay box was the bottom tab. There was nothing connecting on the sides. If there were ever side tabs the same dealer that put in the wrong battery also broke off those tabs.


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*New Link to Exact Battery Needed on REMY Battery Website*

Probably getting close to replacing the battery myself.

Still on the original!

I noticed the REMY link was bad, so here's the new one:

http://www.remybattery.com/Products/AGM-European-Performance-Battery__9AGM49.aspx


Thanks folks for all your help. Haven't visited in awhile, but always depend on this site when I need information on our cars.

Robert


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Guys:

Just a 'word in your ear', based on many years of experience supporting troubleshooting efforts here in the forum:

There are a few things in this world that you really should not buy based on low price. The list includes fire extinguishers, parachutes, condoms  , and Phaeton batteries.

If you browse through some of the "troubleshooting" threads listed in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category), you will soon discover that low voltage on the left battery is probably the number one cause of all problems with the Phaeton.

The price difference between the OEM left Phaeton battery (purchased at a VW dealer) and an aftermarket left battery is probably less than $100. Think of the value of your time, especially in the context of trying to find the cause of a persistent and annoying problem that often presents many different symptoms.

Honest to goodness, I just don't think it makes economic sense to try and save money on battery replacements. Buy cheap gas, get your oil changed at the corner store that charges $5 a quart for the no-name stuff, skip the scheduled service intervals, but don't skimp on the battery.

I'm not saying this to pimp VW batteries, I'm saying this because I honestly believe that the battery is so critical to reliable operation of the car, it is essential to make sure that you are absolutely compliant with the OEM specification when you replace it. The easiest, no-risk way to assure this is to buy a VW battery. Consider the price difference to be a form of extended warranty that buys you peace of mind.

Michael


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

PanEuropean said:


> Guys:
> 
> I'm not saying this to pimp VW batteries, I'm saying this because I honestly believe that the battery is so critical to reliable operation of the car, it is essential to make sure that you are absolutely compliant with the OEM specification when you replace it. The easiest, no-risk way to assure this is to buy a VW battery. Consider the price difference to be a form of extended warranty that buys you peace of mind.
> 
> Michael



Good point Michael! 

Can anyone speak to the quality of the Deka battery offered on the REMY site and to it's stats vs. OEM? 

How about reviews from Phaeton folks that have bought this Deka battery?

Just to let folks know my battery experience recently. In March, I will have owned my car (since new) for 7 years and the left battery appears to be declining in holding a charge. I've turned the car 'on', not started it, and saw the voltmeter show only slightly over 9V after not being turned on for only 3 days.


Thanks Michaeal, and in advance for any one else's thoughts. (No battery ordered yet! )


Robert


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## BltVWF (Oct 19, 2009)

Greetings!
Well, I must agree with Michael regarding the savings on the battery, aftermarket v. OEM.
In my case, I would go with OEM but the dealer had to order it and I did not want to wait.

It does appear that the battery (the Deka) is not charging fully. Most noticebly, with low ambient temperatures, I found it is charged below 50% even after an hour drive. On the same token, the charger is unable to charge it to 100% - whereus the starting battery is always at 100% implying the charging system does it's job. 


I keep getting the infortaiment system reboots which seem to coinside with low ambient temperatures and low left battery charging state. I will ask the shop, Heritage VW, to replace the aftermarket battery with the OEM one with next oil change.

The OEM battery, I've heard, is made by InterState.

Eugene


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

I had a number of issues including the rebooting and locking-up of the Infotainment system when I purchased my car in December.
I had my VW dealer replace both original batteries with OEM, the car has been perfect ever since.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

rscharf said:


> Can anyone speak to the quality of the Deka battery offered on the REMY site and to it's stats vs. OEM?
> 
> How about reviews from Phaeton folks that have bought this Deka battery?
> 
> ...


Robert:

I purchased a Deka AGM battery and installed it myself about one year ago. It has been great and I've had no electrical glitches since the replacement. Purchasing the VW Varta battery is obviously a safe bet as all Phaeton owners are experiencing excellent service from them. However, there are not that many battery manufacturers in this world, although there are lots of different brand names. I believe the most important thing about selecting a battery is to get an exact fit - size, capacity and feature-wise. The VW batteries have vents to the outside so any good replacement should have the same. The capacity specs should equal or exceed the original battery. Deka makes good batteries as does Varta/Interstate. Deka batteries are widely used in solar backup applications.

These batteries are very heavy and for me that was the most difficult part of the DIY installation. However, I also broke a plastic tab trying to extract the electronics panel above the battery. I have felt better about that hearing that VW techs are also likely to break these tabs when they do the LHS battery installation. 

Jim X


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

BltVWF said:


> It does appear that the battery (the Deka) is not charging fully. Most noticebly, with low ambient temperatures, I found it is charged below 50% even after an hour drive. On the same token, the charger is unable to charge it to 100% - whereus the starting battery is always at 100% implying the charging system does it's job.


Eugene,
When you charge your battery with an external charger, then you will have to take into account the Amp rate of the charger. This must be at least 5 Amps, with which it will take over 20 hours before it is fully charged. Also, make sure that the boot lid is closed, and the car ignition is off and all locked etc., with the charger itself outside the car. Otherwise, the car will already consume more amperage than you are charging with. Do not switch the charger on until everything is idle, because those "intelligent chargers" are first "testing" the battery, which they cannot do properly when circuits are alive.

You also mentioned that the battery is only charged 50% after an hour drive. Well, the charge current will not be much more than 20 to 30 amps I guess (best charge rate is actually 10% of the Ah specification), so your observation that the battery is only 50% charged seems correct to me.
Finally, you indicated that your starter battery is always full. First, you have to know that the starter battery is only used for starting, nothing else. So it gets barely discharged to begin with. But more importantly, the starter battery is *NOT *connected at all to the generator. In fact, only the convenience battery is connected (directly) to the generator, while the starter battery gets its charge through a DC-DC converter which is fed by the... convenience battery. So, worst case scenario is that either the generator or the charge controller doesn't do what it is supposed to do.
I think it is a little premature to think that your battery is not charging. BTW, how did you actually measure the charge status of the battery? And what indications do you get on your dash voltmeter? (or external DVM), i.e. during ignition, after starting, after driving an hour etc.?

Willem


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## BltVWF (Oct 19, 2009)

Willem,

Thank you for your input. 

I use the charger at 12A setting with the ignition off and the car locked, and I leave the charger on for a long time (overnight). The voltmeter is steady at about 14v when the engine is running.

The (left) battery would charge to, say, 90% and the very next day it will be at 60%. The controller was a suspect at one time and was replaced with the current version. 

If there was an electrical leak, the battery would discharge completely I would presume but it seem at stays at about 50% even now as the car is driven only about twice a month.

It was interesting to learn that the starter battery is not connected to the generator.

Eugene


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

That doesn't sound to bad. But how can you tell that your battery is 90% charged? And 60%?

Willem


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## BltVWF (Oct 19, 2009)

Willem,

The chargers that I use show the status of the charge of the battery.

Eugene


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Eugene,
That is very interesting. I know those intelligent chargers which test the charge status before charging, however they don't display any other status than "charging" or "full". What is the model and type of your charger?
Willem


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## BltVWF (Oct 19, 2009)

Willem,

One is "Schumacher SSC-1000A Automatic Speed Battery Charger", which is about $50.00 from Amazon, the second' model I don't remember at the moment. 
I am extremely happy with it.
Eugene


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:* See also this discussion thread - Battery issue or electricity leak?


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*VW Dealership Trying to Sell and 18-Month Old Battery???*

On Wednesday I called a Houston VW dealership and asked if they had the AGM battery. They had it in stock for $230, which was $190 + core charge + tax + some small fee. Without core charge it's $210, only $10 more than the Deka shipped. So the price was right, cheaper than what I thought VW was charging.

I got home and it looked like someone had removed the month/year date of manufacture sticker off the top of the battery.

I found the following code burned into the plastic casing of the side of the Varta battery casing:

Z5B886123 0809
595901Z C995264

I tried to look online for the Varta code info, couldn't find a lot.

I'm assuming that 0809 is MMYY, so the battery was manufactured in August of 2009!

UPDATE TO THIS POST: When I got a second replacement battery, the sticker on the top did not match the coding burned into the plastic casing where I THOUGHT the date was. Oh well, so much for my theory.

I only found 1 place on line that said the shelf life of an AGM battery is 1 year as opposed to starting batteries that shouldn't be on the shelf for more than 6 months.

Anyways, I took the battery back yesterday for a refund.

Called another dealership and they referred me back to the dealership where I had just returned the battery. They then suggested I call West Houston Audi where they showed some in stock for the A8's.

When I called there he said the sticker on the top said 01/11. (Update, I swore he said 01/11 on the phone, when someone picked it up for me it ended up being from 01/10. At least there was a date!)

He said that the battery supplier keeps them rotated out.

If it's a Varta battery, I'll be very curious to compare the sticker with what's stamped on the side of the battery.

So OEM is great, just make sure they're providing you with a fresh battery!

The parts guy selling the old battery didn't say much except that the warranty starts with the purchase date of the battery. However, if that's full replacement for 1 year, pro-rated for 5, why would I want that on an old battery when I got almost 7 years from drive out date on my original one!

BOTTOM LINE: It seemed very deceptive for someone to remove the date of manufacture sticker and I bet that is against the law.


Robert


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## sinhamn (Aug 7, 2007)

Thanks Michael for the input.(penny wise pound foolish- most of us try to save a little and end up with more in long run).
It has been 7 years since my v8 2004 phaeton had a left side battery change. no problem with any electrical system, do I still need to change it(even during this rough winter)'thanks in advance
man


PanEuropean said:


> Guys:
> 
> Just a 'word in your ear', based on many years of experience supporting troubleshooting efforts here in the forum:
> 
> ...


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

sinhamn said:


> It has been 7 years since my v8 2004 phaeton had a left side battery change. no problem with any electrical system, do I still need to change it?


7 years, WOW. Well, think about it this way. You can buy a new one now for just $230. This new one will probably last for another 7 years. Do you intend to keep your car for that long? If so, just calculate how much this battery costs you… just 9 cents per day. That is $ 2.70 per month. When you want to wait until next winter, you will save about $ 27.00. But by then, the lead prices probably already boosted the price of the battery with another 10%. Just imagine how much comfort you will get from just $0.09 per day! Unless you are emotionally attached to your old battery, I would just change the battery because it simply belongs to the maintenance of the car.

Willem


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

PanEuropean said:


> Guys:
> 
> Just a 'word in your ear', based on many years of experience supporting troubleshooting efforts here in the forum:
> 
> ...


Can I get an "Amen"?! 
I am cheap, as most pilots are, but the first thing I did was had my VW dealer replace both batteries in my Phaeton. It solved so many issues!!
Listen to "The Man"!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

sinhamn said:


> It has been 7 years since my v8 2004 phaeton had a left side battery change. no problem with any electrical system, do I still need to change it (even during this rough winter)


Sinhamn:

Generally speaking, you can count on 5 years of trouble-free service out of an automotive battery, Anything beyond that is a bonus. Clearly, your battery likes you  and is enjoying a much longer life than average. 

What to do now really depends on how long you plan to keep the car. If you don't think you will still have the car in 12 month's time, then roll the dice and stick with the existing battery. In a Phaeton, a single failed battery won't leave you stranded on the side of the road - you can always rotate the ignition key back and forth (from one extreme to the other) and invoke the 'emergency start' routine, then buy a new battery the next day if you have to.

On the other hand, if you plan to keep the car more than 12 months, you might as well get a new battery now. It would be unreasonable to expect the battery to last longer than 8 years (that would probably be an automotive record), thus, since you know you are going to have to fork out the cash eventually, you might as well buy the thing now "on your schedule", rather than waiting until it fails and causes you inconvenience.

I replaced the battery in my MY 2004 Phaeton in early 2010, following the rationale in the paragraph directly above. I have noticed a difference - I no longer need to charge the battery up every 2 months or so.

Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> If there was an electrical leak, the battery would discharge completely I would presume but it seem at stays at about 50% even now as the car is driven only about twice a month.


In case of the Phaeton, this does not seem to apply. I have had some trouble with an aftermarket "tv free" box intended to let me see the video/tv via the tv tuner while the car is on the move. There's something about it that seems to interfere with the CAN BUS so that not all consumers are properly switched off at all times. This has caused me an "empty" battery quite many times since last summer.

My observation is, that the accessory battery has never been totally drained out. Phaeton has quite complex system which supervises the battery condition and switches off electronic consumers if it sees that the battery level is getting too low. What I have observed:

- If you're pretty low with the accessory battery charge, the ZAB/infotainment screen will be dimmer than usual (it could be dim for other reasons too). ZAB might even reboot itself occasionally!
- Foot well and rear roof lights no longer lit up as you unlock the car (this is pretty odd, as the Phaeton self-study materials do not mention them as one of the "power saving" circuits!). They do not even turn on if you switch them manually
- There is occasional poor radio reception which is because of - i assume - the antenna amplifier being shut off
- Even this: two of the four rear plate lights (the middle ones) tend to stay off, only the outmost ones are lit (funny thing is, that the center and outer lights are actually individually controlled (in two pairs) by the on board supply unit! I really wonder why...)
- In the end, the auxiliary heater (Webasto) no longer lights up. It has undervoltage protection at around 11 volts
- From that point on, the car goes pretty much into a "hibernation mode": in my experience the left side battery is never TOTALLY drained. This is of course assuming that you have not wired any direct load (over which the Phaeton has no control) into it

So, all in all, at first I was sceptical about the importance of having a properly working battery in a Phaeton. But you guys are right: the symptoms of a failed battery are truly NUMEROUS and some of them could be very hard to point at battery's fault!

Jouko


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Phaeton does not appear to start from LHS battery when RHS battery has failed.*



PanEuropean said:


> Sinhamn:
> 
> In a Phaeton, a single failed battery won't leave you stranded on the side of the road - you can always rotate the ignition key back and forth (from one extreme to the other) and invoke the 'emergency start' routine, then buy a new battery the next day if you have to.
> 
> Michael



Michael-

This does not appear to be completely true. Much to my surprise, when the starter battery abruptly failed within the last 2 years, the left battery did not engage to start the car. I turned the key and got nothing out of the starter, even after moving the key back and forth. A jump start brought the car to life.

Robert


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

rscharf said:


> Michael-
> 
> This does not appear to be completely true. Much to my surprise, when the starter battery abruptly failed within the last 2 years, the left battery did not engage to start the car. I turned the key and got nothing out of the starter, even after moving the key back and forth. A jump start brought the car to life.
> 
> Robert


Robert:

I'll let Michael speak for himself but I would say that if the emergency start process did not work, you either also had a weak LHS battery or the electronics that does the switching to allow the LHS battery to start the car has failed. 

I know I have seen my emergency start feature work a few times before I replaced the starter battery.

Jim X

Addendum:

Just noticed in looking at Michael's pdf file for Relay and Fuse Locations the following critical relays for the battery switching during the emergency start procedure -

Electronics box in luggage compartment, left -
Relays
1 - J579 - Electrical System Battery Switch-over Relay (432)
2 - J580 - Starter Battery Switch-over Relay (100)


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## sinhamn (Aug 7, 2007)

Thanks.
man


PanEuropean said:


> Sinhamn:
> 
> Generally speaking, you can count on 5 years of trouble-free service out of an automotive battery, Anything beyond that is a bonus. Clearly, your battery likes you  and is enjoying a much longer life than average.
> 
> ...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

H Sinham:

You are most welcome.

Just a postscript - I arrived back home today (Feb 22), and got into my Phaeton, which I parked at the airport on Boxing Day (Dec 26). Pushed the start button, it started, and I drove off. No fuss, no problems, however the message 'Please Start Engine' did appear in the instrument cluster when I opened the driver door. 

Michael


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

Welcome Home!


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> 'Please Start Engine' did appear in the instrument cluster when I opened the driver door.


Probably almost "Beg:heart:ged" you to start the engine.
The car was taking about 38 mA during all this time. That is 79 days x 24 hours/day x 38 mA = *72 Ah* of drain. That is 86% discharged. Your battery is in pretty good shape!
Willem


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Dear Michael - I can feel a LHS battery replacement coming on for me.... I know you're away... and I know it's a pain... but if you could rehost all the relevant photos... it would be very much appreciated. But in your own time.

Thanks

M


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

n968412L said:


> Dear Michael - I can feel a LHS battery replacement coming on for me.... I know you're away... and I know it's a pain... but if you could rehost all the relevant photos... it would be very much appreciated. But in your own time.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> M


I'll have pics of the vehicle power supply battery replacement process in the 40k maintenance thread, sometime in the next couple days. You might get some hints from that if Michael is tied up with travel. I've already taken pics of the spark plug change, engine air filter change and starter battery replacement but I still need to upload.

Jason


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Jason- I'm sure many of us would be interested to see all the pictures of your work... and especialliy the LH battery replacement!
Many thanks
M


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

What does the (UK) team think about this as a substitute for a VW sourced LH battery?

http://www.carbatteries-online.co.uk/carbatteryvartaagme39andg14.html

Suppose I still need to check it's right physical dimensions... but about fifty notes cheaper than VW want... anyone know any good places to get the right thing at good price?

Thanks

M


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

If I remember correctly, the VW batteries are made by Varta, n'est pas?


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

The 95Ah battery is the correct one. Johan and I have been discussing battery replacements since our GP0s are in need of rebatterying and I found the same one here for a bit less. 

I sense a new battery GTG brewing...

Harry


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## toph (Apr 23, 2007)

new battery going in to mine on the 22nd, had its service on Tuesday and need to go back for this and a few other warranty bits.


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## VloJoh (Jan 2, 2012)

*Disconnecting RHS battery when replacing LHS*



heisenberg2000 said:


> While performing the swap, I had the batterie maintainer clamps connected to the batterie clamps ( there is ample place in the trunk to do that ) Afterwards nothing needed to be reset or learned.
> Gernot


 Gernot, any others, 

I am about to replace my LHS battery but am unsure about the necessity of disconnecting the RHS battery. I have a 5A maintainer. Manual clearly states that for safety of the pyrotechnical disconnect on the RHS battery it has to be disconnected. 
Can't I just hook my maintainer up to the LHS battery and leave the RHS connected whilst replacing? 
Would like to hear your experiences before engaging in this. 

John


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't think there's a pyrotechnic bolt on the RHS battery. 

Anyway, don't disconnect the RHS battery. If you disconnect it, the car will be left without energy while you change the LHS battery and many settings will be lost and will need readaptation. 

Don't worry about disconnecting the LHS battery without disconnecting the RHS one. It is somehow normal for a battery to get flat at some point or another in the life of a car, so all cars are designed to deal correctly with a flat (or disconnected) battery with no damage whatsoever even if, probably for legal reasons, the manual will demand that the two batteries be disconnected that you don't smoke during the operation, that your telephone be disconnected so that you don't get disturbed, that you are over 21, that ... 

A real need however: do a couple of pushups and exercise your back muscles before starting the operation. The battery weighs a ton and is really not easy to take out (or in). 

When disconnecting the terminals, make sure you disconnect the - first, then the +. When reconnecting the battery, do the opposite: + first then -. 

P.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

VloJoh said:


> I am about to replace my LHS battery but am unsure about the necessity of disconnecting the RHS battery. I have a 5A maintainer. Manual clearly states that for safety of the pyrotechnical disconnect on the RHS battery it has to be disconnected.
> Can't I just hook my maintainer up to the LHS battery and leave the RHS connected whilst replacing?


 Hi John, 
I have disconnected my LH battery on numerous occasions without even bothering about the RH battery. When you simply switch the ignition off, then as Pierre indicated, first disconnect the (-) pole of the LH battery and then the (+) pole, there is no harm to be expected at all. 

After doing your work, i.e. in your case replacing the LH battery, you will get just a few MIL's on in your instrument cluster, for example the suspension height will report an error. This one will disappear pretty soon. I have not seen any problems with "forgotten" adaptation values, such as the window, roof and seat settings. 



Zaphh said:


> Anyway, don't disconnect the RHS battery. If you disconnect it, the car will be left without energy while you change the LHS battery and many settings will be lost and will need readaptation.


 As long as you do not switch on the ignition and start the engine during your LH battery replacement, it doesn't matter what you do with the RH battery. It is not supposed to deliver power to the controllers when the LH battery is removed or flat. 
The controllers, have their own way to remember their adaptation settings or re-adapt quickly after power delivery is resumed. 

Willem


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Zaphh said:


> I don't think there's a pyrotechnic bolt on the RHS battery.


 I'm 99.9999% sure it does! It's there to isolate the large cross section starter cable in the event of a collision. Front end damage could be made more risky if there's an enormous unprotected energy source at the front end, fed from the starter battery. Having said that, it sounds much more dangerous for a petrol car than a diesel..... 

Regards 

M


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

n968412L said:


> I'm 99.9999% sure it does! It's there to isolate the large cross section starter cable in the event of a collision. Front end damage could be made more risky if there's an enormous unprotected energy source at the front end, fed from the starter battery. Having said that, it sounds much more dangerous for a petrol car than a diesel.....


 Hi Mike, 

Given the quite neighbourhood where John lives, it looks like a tiny risk that this will happen during an LH battery replacement... 

Willem


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## VloJoh (Jan 2, 2012)

Not so quiet when soccer is concerned... 

http://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2837698/aanhoudingen-jonckbloetplein-nederlaag-oranje.html 


But will take the risk, replacement battery will be in Monday. 

Thank you all! 

John


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

You'd be very unlucky to suffer front end collision at the time you were changing the LH battery. I might risk leaving RH connected next time..... 

Regards 
M


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## Pink Panther (Jul 17, 2006)

*000915105CE vs 000915105DL*

000 915 105 CE = 92Ah/520A size= 353/175/190

000 915 105 DL = 110Ah/520A size= 392/175/190

Both are AGM. The DL cost Less yet being 110Ah should last longer, the 520A would allow it to be "safe" for the Phaetons electronics as it is the same as original.

Only question is will it fit being the length is apprx 1.5 inch longer. Hmm, The cost is about $30 difference at dealerships yet $70 savings thru online outlets.


Good reference to Varta batteries, sizes, amps, ect. (DL is missing)
http://www.thetradepartsspecialists.co.uk/pdf/Batteries_Catalogue.pdf

Here is the Only website i could find with sizing of the DL:
http://www.rexbo.eu/magnetimarelli/starter-battery-67110585010
(I called dealer parts as they measured both sitting on shelf and verified the size differences)


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Pink Panther said:


> 000 915 105 CE = 92Ah/520A size= 353/175/190
> 
> 000 915 105 DL = 110Ah/520A size= 392/175/190
> 
> ...


Anything larger won't fit. Both battery trays and hold-down bars are exactly positioned and sized for the 92Ah battery, with an optional insert adapter for a smaller 61Ah starter battery on the right depending on your engine type and region. See the battery replacement thread for pics.

Jason


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## alexdu (Jun 13, 2007)

Pink Panther said:


> 000 915 105 DL = 110Ah/520A size= 392/175/190
> 
> Both are AGM. The DL cost Less yet being 110Ah should last longer, the 520A would allow it to be "safe" for the Phaetons electronics as it is the same as original.


No. DL is a regular, FLA battery.
AGM OE batteries are:
CE 92 A*h
and
CF 105 A*h (exactly the same physical size as DL).

Alex


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## spyder-byte (Dec 24, 2012)

PanEuropean said:


> It would be unreasonable to expect the battery to last longer than 8 years (that would probably be an automotive record)


Ok - I'm finally thinking I will get around to changing my original batteries (2003 year on neg terminals) -- even if this is a record. 

My concern is that the VW dealer price for the supply battery seemed low - this was their response (and I had him double check to confirm the price in another email):

"The battery costs are $ 230.00 for the starter battery and $ 136.00 for the power supply battery (plus tax on both).
These batteries are manufactured by Interstate for VW and meet the original equipment specifications for your 2004 Phaeton.
The labor charge to install both batteries, reset all electrical systems, clear all faults, etc. is $ 150.00 plus tax.
We do keep both batteries in stock."

--------------
So -- since my batteries are 11 years old, even though I have not problems and they still charge fine -- I know I need to replace them.... Should I be concerned about these Interstate VW branded batteries?
I wish I could buy the original Varta here in the states -- because it is amazing how well they have performed.

Also - if I do this myself... should I leave the charger connected to the terminals when changing the supply battery - or is it best not to do that and do the reprogramming procedure?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Those prices are the wrong way round. The power supply (LH) battery is the expensive one. Regardless, ask them to match the online price. I got them for $150 and $120 from the dealer.

There's no need to leave the charger connected, even if your charger has a supply option, it almost certainly won't have the juice and will crap out. There's almost no "electronic resetting" required, when I did mine the only things with any problem at all were the sunroof and the windows, and resetting them just meant opening and closing. The RH (starter) battery is trivial to change, it takes 5 minutes. The LH one is more difficult, it helps if you have two people, but it certainly wouldn't take the dealer more than 15 minutes to install.

But if your original batteries are working fine, why on earth would you change them anyway? The worst case scenario when they start failing is that you get a few gremlins.


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## spyder-byte (Dec 24, 2012)

I agree that the prices seemed reverse which is why I had to have them double check and confirm it for me. I have had the fuse block off when I was working with the taillight connection - and it didn't seem like it would be very difficult to get the battery out after that. (and actually the fuse block wasn't too hard for me to do myself once I figured it out)

The reason I was thinking I should replace them has now become 2 fold...
1 - they are OLD  I mean they are way past what anyone probably could ever expect
2 - A few gremlins have just shown up... I was driving today and out of nowhere the sunroof opened about 1/4 way -- I just had to turn the dial open and closed and it was fine. also I noticed that I lost the 4 seat climate option mysteriously, I turned it on again and then it kept it on the rest of the drive.

Maybe the car sensed I started looking into batteries and is getting upset with me. 
I've changed quite a few batteries over the years and am pretty competent working around vehicles -- so I'll probably go ahead and do it myself when I decide to pull the trigger.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Not sure about the sunroof, but the climate button is definitely a bad battery symptom, in my case it happens when the RH battery is going bad. During starting, the relay opens and sucks juice from the LH battery, which causes the climate buttons to lose their saved settings.

The LH battery comes out without too much difficulty, but getting it back in is very awkward.


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## ddantes (May 14, 2012)

Hi,

It seems that my battery is in pain...my left hand one...the agm...
A couple of years ago, before i knew this forum, i purchased a agm type battery from varta, the g14, 95Ah/850A. It worked well until this winter when a generator regulator relay was defective and the battery was under heavy stress. A couple of days back i forgot something on in the cigarette lighter and the battery is kinda discharged. Now i'm trying a charge but it seems that eventually i'll have to buy a new one.

Now...i'm not sure if i should buy varta g14 or to go for the original battery 000915105CE. This code, in the provided catalogue, have no replacement for a varta battery, besides varta oem...the original.
Is there the possibility that my varta g14 battery is not supported? it's agm, only 3Ah and some more A as start current.

Thanks,
Daniel


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Hi Daniel,

If our cars were ordinary cars, chances are changing a bit of the specs wont do much harm. But keep in mind that our cars are anything but ordinary.

Michael below summed it up.

Regards,

Salah 





PanEuropean said:


> The batteries are one of the most critical components on the Phaeton. As you have probably discovered, the Phaeton consumes more electricity than the CERN particle accelerator buried underneath Geneva. The last thing you want to do is make any compromises of any kind when replacing the batteries, most especially not with the left-hand side battery. Put cheap diesel fuel in it if you want, put cheap oil in it if you want, skip your maintenance inspections if you have to, but don't ever compromise on battery replacements! We have all learned this "the hard way" here in the forum.
> 
> Also, be aware that the battery controller (controller 71) expects to find the exact original factory specification batteries on both the left and right sides, so, if you put anything different in your car, this controller may not be able to properly monitor and charge them.
> 
> ...


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## ddantes (May 14, 2012)

Hi Salah and thanks for your reply.

What you/Michael said is true, but there have been reports of changed batteries for the right hand battery for example....from a lead-acid of 65Ah to a AGM 92Ah...in theory a completly different type. The right hand battery is chharged by the DC-DC converter found inside the battery management controller.
The left hand battery is charged from the alternator directly.
For Audi, for example, you can code a new type of battery. In fact you have to input the code found also in our battery 000915105CE. If they replaced it with a Varta G14, 95Ah 850A it's ok since this code is working for AGM batteries from 92Ah-95Ah. 
The ideea is...a battery is a battery. If the specs are the same, then it should be no problem. For example the battery Tudor TK920 it's a AGM battery with 92Ah 850A so it's the same as the original...why it shouldn't work?
I don't think the OE battery (that is Varta OE) has something else than a Varta AGM ...

The thing is...i don't mind to buy a OE battery, but after this one will be dead completly. What i'm worried is if this old one it's compatible or not and i can keep it until is dead..it has only 2 years and something...

Thanks,
Daniel


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree Daniel, a battery is a battery. If I hadn't been able to agree a good price on mine with the dealer, I would have bought a cheaper alternative. If you match the power specifications, you should be fine. Looking at the batteries I've bought recently, that's what VW is doing anyway in the US. See if you can find one that comes with a long warranty.


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