# Spark Plug Gap - VRT - MSD Coils



## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Upon searching spark plug gap for VRT's you get a whole wide range of gaps from 0.022 to 0.034
I am most curious about those running MSD coils and what their spark plug gap is?
Thanks!


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## IwannaGTI (Jul 12, 2001)

*Re: Spark Plug Gap - VRT - MSD Coils (pubahs)*

Actual MSD coils: ran .4 to .44 @ 18 lbs
GM stock replacement coils, couldnt get more then .32 out of them
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

I'm assuming you mean 0.04, 0.044"?


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## IwannaGTI (Jul 12, 2001)

*Re: (pubahs)*

yes


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

run a gap of 25 thou


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Thanks thats what I had marked down to run - wanted to get some other feedback


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

I ran the MSD 8224 GM towers with NGK R5671A-8 from 20 thou to 60 thou, up to 15psi boost and it made no difference at all.
Pretty pointless mod if you ask me. The stock coils have been proven to ignite 35psi boost.
MSD coils don't like a lot of dwell. 2 - 2.5ms max for those 8224s.


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Stock coilpack went and I replaced them with the MSDs.. replacing a single coil for $40 doesn't seem pointless to me vs. $200-300 for a stock NEW coilpack unit.
Edit: because the word 'inferior' ruffled some feathers, it has been replaced.










_Modified by pubahs at 5:29 PM 11-24-2009_


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## mathias_rotrex (Oct 19, 2009)

My friend her in sweden ran his monster vr6t on e85.
It was fine too about 1,5-1,6bar with stock coilpack, after that misfire began.
After switching to msd coils and even raised the gap and more boost to 1,75bar every thing was good and no misfire.
Don`t say msd isn`t better, but the oem coilpack is good enough for the most of us.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (kevhayward)*

I had to run .020 on my stock coilpack. MSD coils are a great upgrade and allow more gap so the plugs won't foul as fast.


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## CorvetteKillerVr6 (May 9, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

MSD coils will allow much more gap in an All motor VR6
but boost on MSD wont allow as much.
im running .025 on 20psi and it runs great


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (pubahs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pubahs* »_Stock coilpack went and I replaced them with the MSDs.. replacing a single coil for $40 doesn't seem pointless to me vs. $200-300 for a stock inferior coilpack unit.









while i understand your point on $40 vs $200.
i find it difficult to call the stock unit inferior considering it will support 5X the factory HP and i have seen 800 HP cars on stock units.
now, an old, clapped out stock unit will not be as nice as fresh MSDs, but fresh factory units are indeed GOOD.


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_
while i understand your point on $40 vs $200.
i find it difficult to call the stock unit inferior considering it will support 5X the factory HP and i have seen 800 HP cars on stock units.


Without the fuss factor of having to set up or trouble shoot problems in wiring too


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Stock coilpack failures are a plenty - there is no denying that. See: VR6 and 1.8T
Yes a fresh factory unit is good, and fine, they are not 'inferior'








Geez the OP was about gap, not debating MSD vs Beru and/or if a stock coil can handle 800hp.. 
Also, what trouble shooting do MSD coils require? Hardly a 'fuss factor'











_Modified by pubahs at 5:30 PM 11-24-2009_


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (pubahs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pubahs* »_
Also, what trouble shooting do MSD coils require? Hardly a 'fuss factor'









_Modified by pubahs at 5:30 PM 11-24-2009_

Fuss factor means one more place to look for a problem, wiring and setup. Personally on an FI car I would rather not have something else to troubleshoot if there is a problem, keep it simple


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (pubahs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pubahs* »_
Also, what trouble shooting do MSD coils require? Hardly a 'fuss factor'








_Modified by pubahs at 5:30 PM 11-24-2009_

99.9 percent of the folks that do it...cant wire in a new outlet in an old house ...let alone properly solder and seal automotive wiring....and no crimp conections and all the half baked brackets i've seen drive me nuts....As does the zip tying all the plug wires to each other in a nice EFI causing mess








Besides that... " I HATE EVERY SINGLE THING MSD MAKES" its just red plastic surrounding complete crap.......wrap a turd in a nice box..and it's still a turd.
Steps off soap box......
Now that said...I have factory GM twin tower coils on my wifes 2000 VR6....
In the stock location..mounted to the factory GM coil base...which is bolted to the stock VR6 coil mount using the VR6 igniter...

no damn ballast resistor as the GM setup does not use it....those coils are 25 bucks all day....they run a factory plug gap of .045...and work damn nice and i get em free..from the salvage yard...so the whole deal cost nothing but 3 hours of time....wiring up the base..drilling mounting holes and crimping the proper ends on my new 60 dollar STI plug wires........all that being said...i would not try to run a gap any larger than .028 using the factory motronic setup no matter what coils are wired into it
Thats my 1.5 cents Cheers


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

i'll take a set of those GM parts.
or at least a list of parts and directions.
i know there is a HUGE thread on alternate coils in the 12v forum, but its also FULL of people having ISSUES with them.


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## IHookItUuup (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*

Salsa you must share some of your knowledge and post your ignition coil setup. I'm building another VR6T and plan on using GM coils with MSD 6AL, but perhaps your setup is more reliable. The MSD does give some program benefits - two-step etc.


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...33914
By far the cleanest wiring job - for those who want to do this and do it proper.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_i'll take a set of those GM parts.
or at least a list of parts and directions.
i know there is a HUGE thread on alternate coils in the 12v forum, but its also FULL of people having ISSUES with them.

i'll take some pics tomorrow...the stuff is easy to get from a pick and pull...off any GM v6 car....get the bracket and all..and get to hacking it up
and 4 seasons tuning has the wires with correct ends..if you dont feel like hacking the ends off a perfectly good or new wire set


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

I got a cracked coilpack w/ 165k on it w/ my OBD2 swap so I need to spend $$ regardless.
I'm leaning towards just buying a brand new stock coilpack. Aren't they fine on ~20psi setups?
Besides, I wouldn't be comfortable w/ using the control unit part of the 165k coilpack I have so I'd need to buy a new coilpack and msd coils right? Not to mention a bracket and plug wires?


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_I got a cracked coilpack w/ 165k on it w/ my OBD2 swap so I need to spend $$ regardless.
I'm leaning towards just buying a brand new stock coilpack. Aren't they fine on ~20psi setups?
Besides, I wouldn't be comfortable w/ using the control unit part of the 165k coilpack I have so I'd need to buy a new coilpack and msd coils right? Not to mention a bracket and plug wires? 

They are good way past 20psi


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

The issue most people have with MSD is they use a defunct ICM which causes the coils to short


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubotaPowered* »_
They are good way past 20psi









Cool. Keep it simple has worked for me thusfar http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Brand new stock coilpack it is. There goes another ~$270


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (pubahs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pubahs* »_The issue most people have with MSD is they use a defunct ICM which causes the coils to short


Right, so you need to buy a new coilpack anyway. Seems to me it would make sense to give the brand new coilpack/ICM a try before getting into an MSD mod. What have you lost? Just my .02 and the route I'm gonna go.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (slc92)*

go stock..its easy......
i'm using gm coiles because i'm cheep


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## notldubber (May 3, 2008)

*Re: Spark Plug Gap - VRT - MSD Coils (pubahs)*

Seems like your SPARKED some emotion with your OP Chris. 

Hows she runnin?


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

Maybe we should ship over some of our European coilpacks as they don't fail like they seem to for you guys. In the 7 years and 104,000 miles I've had my Corrado, I've bought 1 stock coilpack for it.
The only reason I tried the MSDs was for the bigger spark people were raving about, but all I found with them is they don't like heat, they don't like vibration and they don't like a lot of dwell, so what is the point of them in a VR6 application? None as far as I can see.
Also bear in mind that manufacturers who produce very big sparks for their engines do so because of combustion problems from poor design. VW engines simply don't need a massive spark in the first place. The fact is that a match burns the house down as well as a blowtorch. The power is in the air/fuel mixture, not in the spark. If the mixture is correct and well-mixed, it requires only a minimal spark to ignite it. If you need a massive spark, you have problems elsewhere in the engine.
I use stock coils with stock Audi TT plugs, stock gaps, stock dwell time and between 13-15psi I get zero sparking issues. So how come you guys seem to have so much trouble holding sparks?
Running too rich maybe? Too much fuel will extinguish a spark quite nicely and I notice you guys like to be in the 10s-11s on boost. Why? That is WAAAAAAY too rich.
Before blaming VW coils and plug gapping, you should perhaps look at your tuning methods first.



_Modified by kevhayward at 4:54 AM 11-25-2009_


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## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
Cool. Keep it simple has worked for me thusfar http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Brand new stock coilpack it is. There goes another ~$270









Pepboys is $200. Its OEM Beru. Ive had mine up to 26psi on a .23 gap.


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

stock gap out of the box bkr7e, 7psi(would go more but run into a lean condition, thinking fuel filter) no issues.


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

on topic: 6psi 12V vr6, MSD twins, .041 gap, daily driven.


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