# Battery charging issue Another known Phaeton fault



## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Well driving my beloved P I had a (now I know) common message come up on the instrument display 'consumer electronics shutting down' WTF! then 'shutting down air conditioning'! OMG

I was on my way to have another P problem looked at, only to have this message come up.

I got back home not actually noticing any difference to anything, all the bits still seemed to work, the only thing that was annoying me was the voltmeter floating around 12.5-14volts. My AGM battery is just over 14months old so I was confident that was okay, I carried out a vcds scan, normal faults coming up but nothing about charging issues.

I got out my multi meter and started to monitor voltages at various points, I thought the alternator regulator had gone, but the output from this was 14.75volts  The starter battery was 12.7 going up to 14.73 when the engine was running The AGM was at 12.07 running up to 12.7 in a charging state, but with ancillaries turned on, it went back down to 12.02 So it seems a straight forward Phaeton fault, Battery management controller J367 pt no. 3D0915181 I'll check to see if mine's the ill fated 'B' version or the more stable 'c' 

Again Michael's post has saved me a load of grief

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...U-TB-27-06-02)-TOC-Photos-done&highlight=j367


I'll report back when I've fitted a new second hand one.
D


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

D,

Mine are both 2004s and they have D version. I have a spare C version I am going to install if my battery control unit checks bad.

-Eric


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## Ncpitman (Apr 19, 2014)

Interesting, I will have to remember this. I just replaced my AGM battery for one it was at least 2 years old and was discharged in freezing weather when I bought the car 2 years ago. I had very funny things happening. Not all battery related since I've replace it and some still exist. But the weird stuff that kept popping up like the random check engine light. I would say stereo rebooting but it was random enough to not really know now if it was fixed. 

Anyway, that battery issue was pretty funky to watch how it played out on the car. I did finally determine it was the AGM and will need to run a scan. I have a long trip coming up next week. Will be interested to see how well she runs. I'm expecting a nice smooth trip. 

Cheers!

Earl


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## Juhani (Sep 15, 2012)

*J367*

J367 dont do anything for left side battery, it only takes care of start battery, that will get 14,7V even if left is 11V. Where did you measure alternator voltage. Left battery is directly connected to alternator there is a 300A fuse in line, so far what I have seen in this forum, low charging voltages have been caused by corroded alt. wiring or coolant leakage on alt. regulator or dead battery. Atleast on my P output voltage of alt. is cold 14,2V +90 13,8V or 13,7 when rear PTCs suck 50A. This is typical little bit too low charge voltage german cars have, battery is alweys half empty, exept start battery thats well taken care of.


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

When I took the engine out last year I checked the alternator wire, and power steering line all were okay.

The voltage check was done at the connector under the front chassis rail for the alternator

The voltage check was done on the battery posts and front jumper point in the engine bay for starter battery.

The voltage check was done on the AGM battery posts

I have the exact symptoms as Michael when he lost charge to the AGM battery, I have purchased a second hand j367 for £40, I'll quite happily throw that kind of money away to confirm a possible fault and cure. I'll also take my old unit apart and look at the components. Taking out the AGM battery is a PITA just to test a cheap readily available component.
Darren


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## Juhani (Sep 15, 2012)

*Left battery*

Yeah, but I have replaced J367 type B with type D, and looked also inside of both and took pictures, there is no visible difference on those. And then left battery is connected directly to alternator in wiring diagram and also by measuring wiring in car is like that. I have no difference in performance or charge state of either battery between controllers B or D. Start battery is full getting 14,7V usually, and left is half full because of too low charge voltage. its one month old 95A AGM Exide. Former Exide lasted two years and finaly had about 30ah left from 95,no matter how much you charge it. Battery wuold last longer if you use external charger every week to get it full once a week, I drive atleast 130km daily so its rdiculos that you need to use mains charger in a car with 190A Alternator. There is no way J367 could adjust output voltage of alternator, because there is not even a sense input. I have also checked drain current from left battery its 30mA acceptable for a car with all these controllers, it takes about four to five months to empty full battery. Only way J367 could influence charge state of left battery wuold be if it is charging start battery even if car is off and locked,
Did not notice that its doing that.
Here pics controller "B" and "D"
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lbgdur&s=9
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2urtj47&s=9


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## Juhani (Sep 15, 2012)

*thermofuses*

This is how thermofuses box looks like. Took out nr. 6/7 now rear hvac does not consume 50A
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2njd4xt&s=9


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Since one of my Phaetons in in storage, I got the brilliant idea of swapping cars during the week.

During the week, one would be hooked up to the charger in the garage. On Fridays, I would swap cars and put the other one on the charger from Friday afternoon to mid-day Monday. they would each be on the charger for 3 or 4 days each (when I wasn't actually driving them).

I got this brilliant idea yesterday, but wanted to get started right away because the other one has been in storage for over a week.

I got in the other one yesterday afternoon and had no indications of any battery problems. Everything worked completely as advertised. I had to change the clock because of @#$%! Daylight Savings Time, but that's not a "real" problem.

I got home and put it on the charger. My Napa charger said it was 11.9V and was only charged to around 70% (don't remember the exact percentage).

It's at 12V and 100% and the charger has gone to maintenance mode. This is the one with the brand new battery.

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I swapped cars again on Friday. This one also had no electrical problems except I had to change time zones for @#$%! Daylight Savings Time. It had no "Please Start Engine" or any other low battery notices and all electrical items worked perfectly including the trunk lid (when the battery died on this one, the trunk no longer worked). 

I got it home and plugged it into my NAPA charger. The charger said it was 12.0 V, but only charged to 41%. By the time I tucked it in for the night, it was at 100% and the charger had switched to maintenance mode.

-Eric


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Juhani said:


> J367 dont do anything for left side battery, it only takes care of start battery


This is what's stated in page 14 of SSP 272 "The Phaeton Onboard Power Supply, Design and Function" about J367:



> "Normally, the starter battery supplies the starting
> circuit of the engine. The onboard power supply
> battery supplies the 12-volt onboard power
> supply; in the case of a cold start, it is supported
> ...


Stating that, I've changed my J367 from B to C due to that fact that I've got this persistent fault code:



> Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
> 
> Part No: 3D0 915 181 B
> 
> ...


Regards,


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

"Cold start" is interesting. I'm guessing it's based on temperature rather than, or as well as, some problem detected when starting, since I hear the clunk intermittently during the winter even with a new or fully charged starter battery.


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## cbh123 (Aug 25, 2013)

From SSP 272 

In addition to the input signals of the normal
start, the battery temperature as well as the
coolant temperature transmitted via the CAN bus
are taken into account.
The switch-over relay onboard power supply
battery is closed; the control unit for battery
monitoring activates the relay for parallel
switching. Activation closes the relay for parallel
switching and both batteries are switched in
parallel.
Parallel switching is temperature-dependent:
- in the case of petrol engines < -10°C and
- in the case of V10 TDI < 0°C.


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Changed the module, from a 'C' to another 'C' took about half an hour. Car is back to normal, go figure replacement module has a newer software code
D


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

Car is back to low voltage again, I had charged both batteries with the ctek. I've done a few trips and the voltage meter on the dash floats between 12.5-14v. Consumers switch off when it's holding 12.5v and that's around motorway driving conditions. I'll investigate further.....


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Dangerrous said:


> I'll investigate further.....


Hi Darren,
Check the condition of the TV22/TV2 connections at the engine bay, below the plenum chamber cover.
Some fellow members have reported damaged wiring and connectors there that led to low chaging voltage.

Gabriel


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

I had checked all these as part of my engine out service, I've just bought another alternator and it looks like an all day job to put it in. I inspected the area to get the relevant part number.
Voltages are steady at the plenum chamber, hanging around 12.8volts
D
let you know how it goes later after bank holiday


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

Just want to second everything Juhani mentioned above:

The alternator output (B+) connects directly to the AGM battery positive terminal via the "back-up fuse box" next to the AGM battery. There is no solid-state charger for the AGM battery, nor a battery-temperature sensor. Thus, if the alternator to AGM wire develops high-resistance _or_ the alternator fails to produce 14.4V or higher, then the AGM battery will not get charged properly even if you drive adequately every day.

Also, there is a bug in the SSP 272, in diagram S272_069 of the "back-up fuse box". The diagram incorrectly shows a 100A fuse from the "Alternator lead" to the "Onboard power supply battery", but in actuality it is a 300A fuse, also confirmed from the replacement parts diagrams. Note that the Phaeton alternator is rated at 190A steady, but capable of peaks up to 300A, so this makes sense.


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