# any help fitting/runing hx40w/18hotside /mk4 golf 2.8 24v engine



## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

ive posted in the 2.8 forium but i think i should have posted here ,oppss
hi all im a bit in the dark regards this ,but ive a few querrys if anyone really knows
,
1, ive a stock mk4 2.8 4motion 
with a headspacer kit fitted,and ive bought a hx40w holset turbo 4inch inlet 4inch outlet, but im worryed as the hotside is a big 18,will this run on my engine,,,
2,is it a waste of time,if not will it be too late for boost to run 
3,ive heard if the manifold was a twinscroll set up it would spool better ,any idea what this means or how one is made ,as i carnt find any info on the idea,,, and a couple of pics of my old and new turbo


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: any help fitting/runing hx40w/18hotside /mk4 golf 2.8 24v engine (adaptorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adaptorman* »_ive posted in the 2.8 forium but i think i should have posted here ,oppss
hi all im a bit in the dark regards this ,but ive a few querrys if anyone really knows
,
1, ive a stock mk4 2.8 4motion 
with a headspacer kit fitted,and ive bought a hx40w holset turbo 4inch inlet 4inch outlet, but im worryed as the hotside is a big 18,will this run on my engine,,,
2,is it a waste of time,if not will it be too late for boost to run 
3,ive heard if the manifold was a twinscroll set up it would spool better ,any idea what this means or how one is made ,as i carnt find any info 

1. Yes it will work. We have plenty of cubes to push it. Given if you are running more than 12psi you should have no problem. Here's a MAP. 








3. A twin scroll turbine housing will be more effective on a tangential manifold, but it will still work just fine, sir. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif A tangential manifold means that, in our case, 3 of the equal firing cylinders are channeled into one volute of the turbine housing and the other 3 are channeled into the other volute. This keeps the separate exhaust pulses away from each other so to optimize flow and reduce reversion. It will simply give more top end and cooler combustion temperatures. 
Slap her on!
EDIT: If you have a previous dyno sheet I can tell you how effective it will be between idle and full boost. 


_Modified by Weiss at 7:16 PM 11-8-2008_


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

well i hope ur right ,asd i know nothing regards this type of turbo ,so is this conpresser map same as my hx40w as im more worried regards the large hot side of 18 which is stamped,,,i aim to run a max //if possible 10/25psi ,dose anyone have any info of how a tangential manifold is made ,as i dont quite understand what it should look like as most manifolds are either like a opern box with the turbo bolted to the rear or 6clyinders with seperate pipes welded into a colector?,sorry to sound a bit thick on this ,or is it were u hac=ve 3 ports to one side of the turbo flange and another 3 to the other /


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (adaptorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adaptorman* »_well i hope ur right ,asd i know nothing regards this type of turbo ,so is this conpresser map same as my hx40w as im more worried regards the large hot side of 18 which is stamped,,,i aim to run a max //if possible 10/25psi ,dose anyone have any info of how a tangential manifold is made ,as i dont quite understand what it should look like as most manifolds are either like a opern box with the turbo bolted to the rear or 6clyinders with seperate pipes welded into a colector?,sorry to sound a bit thick on this ,or is it were u hac=ve 3 ports to one side of the turbo flange and another 3 to the other /

I know of tons of other 2.8 or 3.2 guys running ~.80+ A/R turbines with no problems. Not sure when they get into the boost, never asked. 
A tangential manifold is made just like this... Our 2.8 firing order is... 1-5-3-6-2-4 ... 1 and 6 would be paired together DIRECTLY BEFORE the collector, 2 and 5, and 4 and 3 also would be paired DIRECTLY BEFORE the collector as well. This keeps the pulse energy consistent and impelling the turbine between firings to keep everything consistant. 
The reason you would not have cylinders 1 and 5 grouped together is because they pulse right after eachother, these two will flow right together and cause excessive backpressure and will revert the flow backwards into the cylinders, slowing spool up time and top end performance. 
So here's a pic!
























Hope that helps! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
EDIT: The turbine housing itself actually has two volutes inside the housing that keep the exhaust pulses seperate. Think of it as two channels inside the turbine that wont group together until it reaches the impeller.


_Modified by Weiss at 6:14 AM 11-9-2008_


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Weiss)*

Not to nitpick but Tangential doesnt actually have anything to do with wether or not it's twin scroll. Tangential just means the exhaust enters the turbine side on a line that is roughly a tangent of the outside circle of the turbine wheel, this is as opposed to an on center housing in which the exhaust gas enters on a line that cuts right through the center of the turbine wheel. A tangential housing is always better, and I dont think you see many on-center ones anymore.

Here is a pretty good pic:









To the op: You should be fine with that turbo, what are your power goals? 24V's will spool the turbo a lil bit sooner than a 12v anyways http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

right i roughly understand what one of these manifolds is and how it works,and then its thown seening some of the others at the bottom of the page with undivided ,as evern if the pulses were piped the same way i carnt see it makeing a massive differnce,but ill have a go ,
so i need a t3 flange with 6collector pipes
could someone possibly mark numbers on the collector so i get the idea which 3 go to the left and which 3 go to the right/


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

Generally you'll alternate by firing order, you'll pair 1-3 and 4-6 on a VR6.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_Not to nitpick but Tangential doesnt actually have anything to do with wether or not it's twin scroll. Tangential just means the exhaust enters the turbine side on a line that is roughly a tangent of the outside circle of the turbine wheel, this is as opposed to an on center housing in which the exhaust gas enters on a line that cuts right through the center of the turbine wheel. A tangential housing is always better, and I dont think you see many on-center ones anymore.

Here is a pretty good pic:









To the op: You should be fine with that turbo, what are your power goals? 24V's will spool the turbo a lil bit sooner than a 12v anyways http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Oops, my mistake. Good catch. Tangential housings have a smoother more straight line entrance from the collector, on center curve one direction then back the other for tight clearances. You can have a divided collector on both. Sorry for the confusion. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

still unsure which of the 6 collectors pipes goes to which ports on the engine exhaust manifold,
so if ive a 6 tube colector 
the left 3 pipes would be?
and the right 3 pipes would be
just bit confused unless anyone has a v6 picture of showing which pipes go were ,would help

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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Generally you'll alternate by firing order, you'll pair 1-3 and 4-6 on a VR6.

Correct!








Adaptorman, make it easy on yourself and use the stock collectors (they flow pretty well if ported @ the head, and make two collector pipes into a twin scroll t4 collector. You will have a much easier time fabricating it and it will work well. Make sure that you run your wastegate collectors off of EACH of the collector pipes so that you are regulating the exhaust gasses from each collector instead of just one. Or you could be baller and run twin waste gates..

Grab one of these
Like this:


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: any help fitting/runing hx40w/18hotside /mk4 golf 2.8 24v engine (adaptorman)*

that 18cm^2 housing is huge... from the cm to a/r calculator a 12 cm is roughly equivalent to a .8x a/r housing. the 18cm housing is well within the 1.XX a/r 
actually found the chart 
6 cm2 = 0.41 A/R
7 cm2 = 0.49 A/R
8 cm2 = 0.57 A/R
9 cm2 = 0.65 A/R
10 cm2 = 0.73 A/R
11 cm2 = 0.81 A/R
12 cm2 = 0.89 A/R
14 cm2 = 0.97 A/R
15 cm2 = 1.05 A/R
16 cm2 = 1.13 A/R
17 cm2 = 1.29 A/R
19 cm2 = 1.37 A/R


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

hi i made a home made version of one of these here the pic ,but ,im stuck in too things i either run mine same as this ,but ive room isssies ,which i carnt use and its not piped to help the turbo spool better,,stress,








my holset hx40 is a t3 not a t4 ,and my house is a huge 18 hot side so ,to me its going to be too laggy for my 24v v6 lump ,same say its perfect for this engine as the head breathers better then a 12v ??
ive heard that many replys on what to do my heads a mess,,,
so dose anyone acturly know .....









i think its too laggy for my engine, if it had a smaller hot side ,ie 16 think it would be spot on ,
unless ur guys think this is either spot because of the size or just for track fun ,as its going to take some spooling up
dose it flow better on a 24 the a 12v?


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

Stock 24v vs. stock 12v head, the 24v will flow more air. If you want to go smaller, im pretty sure the next size down is a 16cm^2, then a 12cm^2, but the 12 is a bit small.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

The 18cm2 is going to come on a lot like a 12cm2 on a 4cyl.. I don't think you'll have any problems.


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

hmm dammit I guess I should be looking at that 14 or 16cm housing then... what are your thoughts on this Paul?


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

HIPAL SO WHEN DO u think this 18 will spool,,,,,on a 24v v6


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

////The 18cm2 is going to come on a lot like a 12cm2 on a 4cyl.. I don't think you'll have any problems////this has thown me bud, how can a 18 houseing come in like a 12 m,carnt be right 12 would be too small i reckon a 16 would be spot on , and u say 4cly/


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

I would think you would get full boost at about 4k-4500rpm with that 18cm


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (turboit)*

dose this apply for a 12v vr6 and a 24v vr6/


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

He means the 18cm^2 on the 24v would be like having a 12cm^2 on a 4-banger


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (PhReE)*

right lol ,,well im 80 percent sure this 18 houseing is too big and laggy for my car,this would be ok for drag raceing,,, ,,so ,i need a 16 houseing ,unsure if anyone can assit...on info ,
1,will a 16 houseing fit on my hx40 
2,or do i have get a hx35 with a 16 houseing, as i carnt find anyone runing the same spec turbo on there 24v golf ,


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RipCity Euros* »_
Correct!








Adaptorman, make it easy on yourself and use the stock collectors (they flow pretty well if ported @ the head, and make two collector pipes into a twin scroll t4 collector. You will have a much easier time fabricating it and it will work well. Make sure that you run your wastegate collectors off of EACH of the collector pipes so that you are regulating the exhaust gasses from each collector instead of just one. Or you could be baller and run twin waste gates..

Grab one of these
Like this:


Yep, if made into a tubular header it would look something like this.








Note how all the pulses are split between collectors to keep the flow up and backpressure down. Utilizing the stock manifolds will slightly increase backpressure at the collector of the factory flange, unlike the header which will space the pulses between 6 collectors instead of 4. 



_Modified by Weiss at 3:46 PM 11-12-2008_


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

that daigram will help loads as i was so stuck woundering which pipe went to which collector ,as mine will have a wasted spark idea which means ill have one spark at the top and one at the bottom due to runing standalone ,,so just to clear things up this is how i need to pipe my manifold up on my mk4 v6 24v engine? ,,,


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

Yup, for all VR6's that would be correct, as I'm pretty sure they are all the same firing order. (I know the 12v, 2.8/3.2L 24v are the same, not sure about the 3.6 tho)


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (PhReE)*

right im gunna attempt one chuff it ,,,i reckon its going to be a pain ,but ill have a go ,ive cut a few bits 2day ,


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

You could pick one of these up from INA for $98, laser cut


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## ade007 (Jun 12, 2007)

let try that holset on my vr6 at weekend.we will soon see how she spools with out guessing do 2 incar vids one with 12cm2 and other 18cm2 u up for it ? my ideal hotside i like on a vr is t3 a/r1.06 or t4 a/r 81 


_Modified by ade007 at 9:22 PM 11-12-2008_


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (ade007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ade007* »_ my ideal hotside i like on a vr is t3 a/r1.06 or t4 a/r 81 a/r

I think the 16cm is closest to that.


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## ade007 (Jun 12, 2007)

adaptorman thought my t4 81 were a bit laggy on the mk3 vr6 box i loved it.. so adaptorman look for a 14cm2 hotside for that hx40 you will have 4wd for the midrange traction plus your 02m gearbox will be a short ratio gearbox compared to the tall box my vr has


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

thats nice but time ive bought then shipped ,ill just have to make one best i can ,,,nice thow ,any idea how thick that is,,,


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (ade007)*

i got it to fit in that other houseing ,but the compressor wheel ended up too far away ,so ,trying to find a 14 or 16 houseing will be a nightmare in the u.k ,,,unlike the usa ,just have them laying around collecting dust lol,,be nice to try it shaft ,but i dont want to start cutting houseing down to for a trail run and then have it looking odd when i come to adapt it to mine ,but im 99perct sure its not going to spool till 4500rpm ,which is late ,unless this manifold idea may help a bit?///////


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adaptorman* »_but im 99perct sure its not going to spool till 4500rpm ,which is late ,unless this manifold idea may help a bit?///////

Im pretty sure that a log manifold would spool your turbo quicker than a tubular one. Tubular manifolds are made for top end performance from what i gather.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RipCity Euros* »_
Im pretty sure that a log manifold would spool your turbo quicker than a tubular one. Tubular manifolds are made for top end performance from what i gather.


Not true, a properly designed tubular will out spool and provide higher RPM power than log. Under a certain RPM both will seem just as adequate, but a log certainly will never outperform a well designed tubular any day. 
Adaptorman, lookin' good! Since I made you a pretty picture you're making me a header right???


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*

How would a tubular manifold outspool a log manifold? The overall volume of a log manifold is smaller.


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*

lol this will be a first attempt lol ,it wont be anything porno tastic lol


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

stress lol ,i dont if poeple think they know ,or if its what someones red and the infos right ,im so confused i get told one thing then other ,,,i dont have a differnert manifold ,but ive no money trees appaering as yet ,,,,so if some one has proper info on either the log manifold or pulse tubular manifold is better for my turbo ,and still evern with the 18 houseing i think it may make a tiny differnce










_Modified by adaptorman at 11:42 AM 11-15-2008_


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

bc u can still make the primaries just as small.on top of that the log will endure less reversion promoting continuous flow.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (adaptorman)*



adaptorman said:


> stress lol ,i dont if poeple think they know or if its what someones rad and it the info right ,im so confused i get told one thing then other ,,,i dont havein a go at a differnert manifold ,but ive no money trees appering as yet ,,,,so if some one has proper info on either the log manifold or pulse tubular manifold is better for my turbo ,and still evern with the 18 houseing i think it may make a tiny differnce
> a tubular will always be better the log willperfom just the same to a point. A tubular
> Will provide hi rpm flow.ever see a pro turbo car equipped a a log?
> 
> ...


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

right made a hour free night so made a collector ,,and let me tell ya ,trying make 6 outlets into a t3 flange ...stressfull lol,but i like to prove they can be fitted ginder and a mig im affraid
























bingo thats that bit sorted ,and i have to use a 44mm wastegate too as u can see the larger pipe 










_Modified by adaptorman at 11:13 PM 11-13-2008_


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

Nice work man!


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

6 branch tubular manifold into a twin scroll T3 flange thats a _tight squeeze_








Reminds me of last night


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (PhReE)*

cheers,chuff paying when u can make one ,for less lol










_Modified by adaptorman at 12:42 AM 11-14-2008_


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

yes atight sqeeze lol ru sure u hit the right hole lmao


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

Mommy always told me not to play in the mud















Where did you source your exhaust manifold tubing? Like the 90* bends and pipe?


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

lol id sooner be eating muff pie then slopy mud pie







,pipe theresaguy who sell all bends just up road ,,handy guy to know ,im asumeing be nice to find were people do them thow,,,










_Modified by adaptorman at 1:26 AM 11-14-2008_


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (adaptorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adaptorman* »_lol id sooner be eating muff pie then slopy mud pie







,pipe theresaguy who sell all bends just up road ,,handy guy to know ,im asumeing be nice to find were people do them thow,,,









_Modified by adaptorman at 1:26 AM 11-14-2008_

Those look like plumber's Weld Els. A great choice for many headers as the walls are thick. Great for retaining heat and durability. 
How do you plan to plumb the WG? One pipe branching off the both volutes?


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*

hibud ,,wellim going tomake the manifold first the eith use one 44mm pip into both collectos or just use 2 small ones into one big one


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif branch one off each volute, twin wastegates are hard to controll sometimes.


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

only haveing one wastegate branched into both ports,,simpler,,
little update,home made thow,,
























































just the other half to make now


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

Sir, big applause!!! I'm very proud of what you've been able to do with the knowledge you started out with on this thread!
Keep up the good work and keep the pics coming!!


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

cheers weiss due to room issuises due the size of the turbo and bulk head room ,it may do the job ,how well is another story lol,i think i droped abolock thow ,lol as you see the 3 pipes ive tacked in place ,ive used 3 pipes from the single 3 ports to the same 3 on theone side of the collector ,carnt think if that was right or wrong ekkk


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## ade007 (Jun 12, 2007)

its right u knobhead get otherside done lol


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (ade007)*

who asked you lol


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

so this will have to do








again geuss work ,but it fits a treat 
i may just shortern the row of straight pipes down a inch ,,
















then trail fit on the caddy
































not bad for a first attempt lol


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

Nice work mate http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

i dont like it ,,prefed my old setup,,,but see as some seem to say this idea will work better we we one day find out ,,,lol,,,evern thow i stripped a turbo down to only find with the twin ports in the hot side of the snail,the exhust compresser only hits the middle of the wheel ,,,so basicly carnt see it makeing any differnce....


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

Can u shoot a side pic with the turbo on? Looks pretty tight between both housings and the pipes.


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*

hi weiss turbo missis both sides and front and rear ,carnt do any pics as ive dissembled it to weld the pipes up ,bud,,,gunna be fun getting theoil feed return in too ,lol


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

I like the color of your snail


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

lol wasnt may choice just how it arrived i reckern the engine was all grey too....


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