# Giac, Revo, or APR for most HP?



## orionredwing (Mar 16, 2008)

Ouch, I know... another one of these threads, but as this is the first mod, all you old timers please be patient








So I searched and read up on the comparisons on most forums. To summarize, it seems Revo is stronger than APR, and GIAC X+ is the strongest? However, I could not find too many dynos or comparison tests to support these statements.
I have all 3 local to me, and am only interested in these 3 tunes. Can you please suggest?
GIAC - $450 + $75 install (only 1 shop in San Jose)
Revo - $399 + ?? install (haven't called yet)
APR - $499 fully loaded H20 sale + ?? install (haven't called yet)
This car will be stock w/ other than this tune (K&N drop-in filter & Forge 007 DVs), so I would like the one w/ the most HP.
Thank you and sorry for another one of these threads, but I spent a lot of time reading and am confused, hehe.


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## Rosco-gti (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Giac, Revo, or APR for most HP? (orionredwing)*

i got mine (revo) a few years back from http://www.eipracing.com/products.html and i think they sold me the program for 340+no labor.
cool cats mostly tune evo's and subies but they are close too your place.


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: Giac, Revo, or APR for most HP? (Rosco-gti)*

Dynospot Racing is a great shop in San Jose. You will be insanely happy with the Giac software! I dug the fact that Dick (the owner) and Garrett Lim (owner of Giac) are from Norcal and went to school together. So hooking up a local, or 2 for that matter. also, the Giac file is built around 91. not a neutered 93 file like others. go get it and smile for the next dozen tanks of gas!!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*FV-QR*

how bout picking up our free trial to see if you like it?


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## cruzad3r (Jan 24, 2007)

does APR doing free trail now? I got the 5h trial from REVO then i went back the next day to get the whole thing. i like revo cuz i don't have to pay extra for different programs. i also like the ability of tuning the boost, timing and such.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (cruzad3r)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cruzad3r* »_does APR doing free trail now?

Yes. We invented it.


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## kclax44 (Aug 4, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

^haha, clicked on "Revo Steals Code" awesome. Yeah and definitely do the free trial, thats what I did, then turned around and drove back to have the full 93 done! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (kclax44)*

I had APR in my TT and it was weaksauce.........I swapped for REVO,it was night and day difference.Higher boost level,more tq. & HP. APR 1.8T file is weak.Go for REVO


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

BS.
When I got my Revo trial APR was still limited to physical chips that had to be soldered to your ECU's board. APR didn't have flash software and especially not free trials and no custom tuning.


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## DuBSPEED22 (Mar 12, 2007)

giac


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## aTTenzione (Aug 18, 2009)

*Re: (DuBSPEED22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DuBSPEED22* »_giac

on a 225? what are the numbers?


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## orionredwing (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: (aTTenzione)*

After tons of inconclusive reading (aka lack of independent dynos), I am leaning towards APR (due to the fully loaded H20 sale) or GIAC.
I read on a thread somewhere that some TT ECUs can only load 1 program?
Will the 2002 ALMS 225HP Quattro I'm picking up be able to load 4 APR programs in the ECU?
I am pretty sure I'm getting Stage 1, but I'm itching to mod this car.
Are there maps for cars w/ stock exhaust & intake (drop-in filter), but upgraded fmic & dps, or am I stuck w/ Stg 1 because I don't like loud exhausts?


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## kclax44 (Aug 4, 2008)

*Re: (orionredwing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionredwing* »_
I read on a thread somewhere that some TT ECUs can only load 1 program?


True, I have a 2001 225 Roadster and it could only accept one file, i went with APR 93.


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## aTTenzione (Aug 18, 2009)

*Re: (kclax44)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kclax44* »_
True, I have a 2001 225 Roadster and it could only accept one file, i went with APR 93.

apr numbers are so low... the revo torque difference was ridiculous. im going thursday to kmd for revo software


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (aTTenzione)*

my '02 ALMS had the GIAC 5 stage (stock, kill, valet, pump gas, race gas) program. now it has a big turbo and GIAC of course. 
you are right by the shop i mentioned! you have any problems, need diagnosis......they are there for you! it can be SUCH a PITA to have car problem, go to the dealer and be told it's probably the chip so they can't help you. Dyno Spot can VAG the car, tell you the problem and give you a path to get it fixed. why would you still be questioning who to go with??


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (BluHeaven)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluHeaven* »_BS.
When I got my Revo trial APR was still limited to physical chips that had to be soldered to your ECU's board. APR didn't have flash software and especially not free trials and no custom tuning.

Sorry! We invented it. Read the articles. Revo admitted fault, settled and paid lots of $$$ in the end.
I thought this was common knowledge by now.


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## EXPELLED (Jun 24, 2008)

Arin please chime in on the question about certain year TT's only accepting one program. My TT has stock and 93 but I received a chip in a static bag from the original owner which I assume is the stock chip. whats the deal with this?


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## mbaron (Aug 21, 2008)

*Re: (EXPELLED)*

I love my O.CT tune.
http://www.stratmosphere.com/oct_tt_stage1.htm 










If I mail my spare ECU to you guys at APR, can you put on the 5 hour trial? I have only driven my TT with the stock ECU and the one I bought with the O.CT programming already on it.
The H2O fully loaded sale sounds awesome.


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## mbaron (Aug 21, 2008)

*Re: (mbaron)*

^^^^^ referring to my post above, I am in no way affiliated with Stratmosphere or O.CT. 
I bought my pre-tuned ECU used from a former TT owner and AudiWorld member. 
I have never given money to or received money from either of these companies.
I have also never driven my TT with another company's tune. My brother has an A4 1.8t with APR 93 and it made a huge difference in power.


_Modified by mbaron at 9:33 AM 9-29-2009_


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## EXPELLED (Jun 24, 2008)

that is pretty impressive


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (EXPELLED)*

This is a difference of software only on my car way back when. car got switched from stock, to pump to race.....obviously w/ some gas swapping. This is also to all 4 wheels. 
interesting side note: Haldex hated the dyno and freaked out which you can see in the dips in two spots. 
Giac says about 35hp and that is what it gained! 29.9 whp/0.8 = 37.5 crank. also 56 lbs/ft of torque on *91*. But then look below when you add some real gas!!!! another 40 whp and 35 more torque to the wheels.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (EXPELLED)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EXPELLED* »_Arin please chime in on the question about certain year TT's only accepting one program.

Yes. This depends on the ECU. Sometimes the ECU does not have enough extra space for more than one program. 

_Quote »_
My TT has stock and 93 but I received a chip in a static bag from the original owner which I assume is the stock chip. whats the deal with this?

Depending on when he purchased the ECU originally we may not have had directport programming ready for his ECU or he requested a soldered on module so he could use the home programmer.


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## EXPELLED (Jun 24, 2008)

is it able to be flashed for the "turbo back" stage on top of the hard chip? or would the stock one need to be reinstalled, then reflashed?


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## BeasTToftheEast (Sep 20, 2007)

I've only heard good things about unitronics, they are the fastest growing tuning company for our cars, and its probably for good reasons


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I read the PDF..... Seems to me Revo didn't steal (stealing implies they infiltrated your corporation or broke into an office and stole things) your code... YOUR employee GAVE it to them. There is a difference.
If you had the ability to flash programs for so long then... why weren't you doing it? The one reason I never got chipped was because I didn't want to buy a spare ECU to have chipped or yank mine and send it in. 
So when Revo started free trials and flashes... no ecu removal required, that's who I went with.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Sorry! We invented it. Read the articles. Revo admitted fault, settled and paid lots of $$$ in the end.
I thought this was common knowledge by now.


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## wreckedmyteg (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: (BluHeaven)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluHeaven* »_I read the PDF..... Seems to me Revo didn't steal (stealing implies they infiltrated your corporation or broke into an office and stole things) your code... YOUR employee GAVE it to them. There is a difference.
If you had the ability to flash programs for so long then... why weren't you doing it? The one reason I never got chipped was because I didn't want to buy a spare ECU to have chipped or yank mine and send it in. 
So when Revo started free trials and flashes... no ecu removal required, that's who I went with.


Don't be a douche.


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (wreckedmyteg)*

Stating facts from a legal document is hardly being a douche.

_Quote, originally posted by *wreckedmyteg* »_

Don't be a douche.


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## wreckedmyteg (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: (BluHeaven)*


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (wreckedmyteg)*

you suck at the reading comprehension dood. 


_Modified by BluHeaven at 1:46 PM 9/30/2009_


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: Giac, Revo, or APR for most HP? (orionredwing)*

I have had my Revo tune on my car for over 2 years and I am very happy with it. Runs Great without any issues. 
My Brother has the APR tune on his 08 Passat and it did make a Big difference in performance on his B6. Overall I would say go with whoever has a Good Sale and who is close to your area. 
Either one will give you a good Boost in Performance over stock.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (BluHeaven)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluHeaven* »_I read the PDF..... Seems to me Revo didn't steal (stealing implies they infiltrated your corporation or broke into an office and stole things) your code... YOUR employee GAVE it to them. There is a difference.
If you had the ability to flash programs for so long then... why weren't you doing it? The one reason I never got chipped was because I didn't want to buy a spare ECU to have chipped or yank mine and send it in. 
So when Revo started free trials and flashes... no ecu removal required, that's who I went with.


Yes, that is the reason I went with REVO also. I first got a Revo Tune on my 01 TT 225 in 2004 and APR at that time did not have direct Flash capability or at least not for the Mk1 TT. The only way to get an APR tune back then was to send in the ECU and have it "chipped".
So I gave REVO a try. Went to a shop in Cincinnati and had a Trial tune put on. Drove it about 15 minutes went back to the shop and made it permanent and never looked back. I sold my 01 later and got an 04 TT which I also got Revo Tuned first Stage I and than later Stage II after I got my 42 dd Downpipe. No issues so far. Runs like a champ. I am not putting down APR. I think they do have good software and some of my friends that have APR like it a lot. My brother couldn't be happier. It made his slouchy Passat come to life!
Revo or APR. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.
Go with whoever has a Sale and is close to you.


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## wreckedmyteg (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: (BluHeaven)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluHeaven* »_you suck at the reading comprehension dood. Go read the legal documents from the trial where it details the events that an APR employee secretly went to the UK and gave Revo information.
Revo was given the code by an APR employee








If some rogue US government official gives nukes to Korea... did Korea steal them? 
Mr APR... instead of just repeating over and over the revo steal code and we 'invented' the timed trial. Why not just answer my question? 
oh and the little page there with that photo repeated over and over with the music playing... a bit childish don't you think? 


Really? Are you serious?
They guy stole trade secrets and was made an employee of Revo. He was compensated by a competitor for illlegally obtained intellectual property. So yes. they absolutely stole from APR.
Did you see the part where Revo was sued? Who won it again? Was it Revo? Ah, no. How can you proclaim Revo's innocent when they were found guilty?
There's a reason you love your Revo, it's re-branded APR.


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*

Yeah.... I got my revo in 2003 because APR didn't have direct flash either and I didn't have the spare cash for a 2nd ECU nor could I send my ECU in as I needed to have my car drivable every day.
and don't get me wrong either people. I have nothing against APR. In fact APR's intercooler is on my wish list because they seem to have the best and most efficient design. Yeah it's ****ty that several of their own employees stole code and broke contract to work for Revo. But it is what it is and at the time APR didn't have the direct flash option and you couldn't custom tune their software (like you could with Revo's SPS dongles) either. If I was just buying a chip now then APR would probably be up there at the top of the list.
My flash has bee fantastic though... gobs of low end. And I like being able to tune it myself if I need. I also like that if the code for my year and model is improved or gets upgraded.. I get a free reflash.


_Quote, originally posted by *IndyTTom* »_
Yes, that is the reason I went with REVO also. I first got a Revo Tune on my 01 TT 225 in 2004 and APR at that time did not have direct Flash capability or at least not for the Mk1 TT. The only way to get an APR tune back then was to send in the ECU and have it "chipped".
So I gave REVO a try. Went to a shop in Cincinnati and had a Trial tune put on. Drove it about 15 minutes went back to the shop and made it permanent and never looked back. I sold my 01 later and got an 04 TT which I also got Revo Tuned first Stage I and than later Stage II after I got my 42 dd Downpipe. No issues so far. Runs like a champ. I am not putting down APR. I think they do have good software and some of my friends that have APR like it a lot. My brother couldn't be happier. It made his slouchy Passat come to life!
Revo or APR. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.
Go with whoever has a Sale and is close to you.


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (wreckedmyteg)*

I never claimed Revo innocent. They did accept the code given to them. The guy that stole trade secrets though was an APR employee at the time. It was actually more than one APR employee that passed on code was it not? Some of which continued to work at APR while giving code away. APR employees stole.
Oh and while Revo might have had some APR material in it... it's a completely different animal. It is most definitely NOT a re-branded APR 91 octane program. I've driven/ridden in and seen dyno sheets and boost/timing/fuel mapping for enough cars with both to know that much.


_Quote, originally posted by *wreckedmyteg* »_
Really? Are you serious?
They guy stole trade secrets and was made an employee of Revo. He was compensated by a competitor for illlegally obtained intellectual property. So yes. they absolutely stole from APR.
Did you see the part where Revo was sued? Who won it again? Was it Revo? Ah, no. How can you proclaim Revo's innocent when they were found guilty?
There's a reason you love your Revo, it's re-branded APR.


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## cruzad3r (Jan 24, 2007)

the fact that i dont have to yank my ecu and have it solder on is my pure reason why i go with revo. also for 500 bucks, you get everything where as any other software at the time, you have to pay more. now is a different time because everyone is hungry and they want business. simply put, go with people that you can hold accountable for in case you have a problem with your car.


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (cruzad3r)*

It is 2009 now. why argue over what this guy should pick based on what was available in 2005??? or when ever the hell this was


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (M this 1!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M this 1!* »_It is 2009 now. why argue over what this guy should pick based on what was available in 2005??? or when ever the hell this was

I think the argument is that REVO came out with the Direct Flash way before APR did. Meaning they also were the first doing the Trial Software.


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## orionredwing (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: (IndyTTom)*

Thanks guys for all the super responses. I wish I can modify the title because I now know Unitronics is also another good option, and are most known for their BT support. I've been spending a lot of time researching BT, so the Unitronics Stg 1 to BT upgrade policy will save a couple hundred bucks if I choose to stay Stg 1 for awhile (e.g. more flexibility before committing).
However, the upgrade policy shouldn't be the deciding factor if my goal is to look for the best Stg 1 tune independent of BT. Are there a lot of people who like Unitronics Stg 1? I know pretty much everyone loves their BT s/w








Thanks again for all the input. I'm coming into my TT late in the game, but it's really awesome to have all this knowledgeable support still around. I guess that's the advantage of having a mature aftermarket after all these years!


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: (orionredwing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionredwing* »_Thanks guys for all the super responses. I wish I can modify the title because I now know Unitronics is also another good option, and are most known for their BT support. I've been spending a lot of time researching BT, so the Unitronics Stg 1 to BT upgrade policy will save a couple hundred bucks if I choose to stay Stg 1 for awhile (e.g. more flexibility before committing).
However, the upgrade policy shouldn't be the deciding factor if my goal is to look for the best Stg 1 tune independent of BT. Are there a lot of people who like Unitronics Stg 1? I know pretty much everyone loves their BT s/w








Thanks again for all the input. I'm coming into my TT late in the game, but it's really awesome to have all this knowledgeable support still around. I guess that's the advantage of having a mature aftermarket after all these years!

just think about this, if we mastered the BT files, in which you change a LOT of stuff, imagine what we can do with a regular stage 1 file.
Believe me it works like a charms, mmmmm well ill better tell you dont believe me jeje, go try it ylou have a 30 day money back guarantee!!!
Good luck man


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

uhh, this was 3 months ago. if he's still shopping........he's a lost puppy


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## winTTer (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (M this 1!)*

lol well if he is still shopping, i have to say unitronic stage 1+ FTW


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## exboy99 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: (M this 1!)*

you should really go with the shop that
is closest to you, the software is a nice upgrade
I went APR and like it a lot. 
I can switch programs through
the cruise stalk anytime I like.
whatever you choose I think you'll love
the change in the car.
... we can all agree about that right?


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## mbaron (Aug 21, 2008)

*Re: (exboy99)*

OCT


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## orionredwing (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: (mbaron)*

Hehe, surprised to see my old thread.
To add some closure to this thread, I ended up going with Unitronics Stg 1.
It was a real tough choice between GIAC (5 mins from my house), and Unitronics, but in the end, I thought I'd give this company a try. Even now, I still want to try GIAC for curiosity's sake, but am very happy with my choice. Maybe I can get a ride from another local member.
It's been almost 3 months on it, and loving the new power. I have a 370whp 335i, so I saw this flash as a 'freshing up', to allow the TT to keep up with today's newer cars.
I just hate the thought of a 268 HP Camry beating the stock 225HP TT! No problems now


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: (orionredwing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionredwing* »_Hehe, surprised to see my old thread.
To add some closure to this thread, I ended up going with Unitronics Stg 1.
It was a real tough choice between GIAC (5 mins from my house), and Unitronics, but in the end, I thought I'd give this company a try. Even now, I still want to try GIAC for curiosity's sake, but am very happy with my choice. Maybe I can get a ride from another local member.
It's been almost 3 months on it, and loving the new power. I have a 370whp 335i, so I saw this flash as a 'freshing up', to allow the TT to keep up with today's newer cars.
I just hate the thought of a 268 HP Camry beating the stock 225HP TT! No problems now









Glad you are enjoying your car!!, and thx for the confidence, next step Big Turbo TT quattro!!!! bye bye 335i


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