# 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno



## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

94 octane
I'll see about getting a dyno copy with the a/f shown... never went above *11.2* at redline- room to grow?!?!
That's a comparison between my high/low boost switch on the dash. 
Kinetic Stage 1 + autotech 262's + ARP headstuds/rodbolts + fmic +open electric cutout (normally catless 2.75 Jetex exhaust)
stock clutch
fmic from Just-intercoolers on ebay- 26x6x2.75- 66 shipped!!(Store)

more dyno graphs of cutout open/closed and intake shifter rod enabled/disabled (rattling badly) coming soon.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by Soupuh at 1:02 AM 1-23-2007_


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## vw-jeff (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*

looks good bro, I guess fixing that timing really helped out.
congrats


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (vw-jeff)*

more details? boost? Water Injection? Nice numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Vdubsolo)*

boost is on the graph
water injection? my intake temps were 60 degrees F in a 50 degree room. No need for W/I.


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_boost is on the graph
water injection? my intake temps were 60 degrees F in a 50 degree room. No need for W/I.

the second pull your numbers droped alot..with WI they will be consistant..and your AIT's will be cooler..


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Vdubsolo)*

You need to take a little more time looking at ALL of the information man. He dynoed at 2 different boost levels.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubsolo* »_
the second pull your numbers droped alot..with WI they will be consistant..and your AIT's will be cooler..

the bottom of the graph is not air fuel, maybe you just glanced at it. we all make mistakes..


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubsolo* »_
the second pull your numbers droped alot..with WI they will be consistant..and your AIT's will be cooler..

lol



_Modified by TBT-Syncro at 11:31 PM 1-22-2007_


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (TBT-Syncro)*

i dunno but my i turned off my headlights and there was still light coming out from the hood??


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*

Nice to see a kinetic kit making good power http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MiamiVr6T (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*

looks like you got a diesel under the hood with that torque..








good stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_
Kinetic Stage 1 + autotech 262's + ARP headstuds/rodbolts + fmic +open electric cutout (normally catless 2.75 Jetex exhaust)


How are you running that much boost on stage 1 fueling? Or did I miss something?


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## OrangeDUB (Sep 18, 2006)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (VR6OOM)*

Yeah nice torque!







How much was your kinetic kit and i'm guessing you installed it yourself? how hard was it?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*

Nice numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I would recommend getting a larger turbine housing so you can hold boost pressure to redline and make power past 5500rpm as the small housing is choking it up top. I can't make out the chart that well but it looks like you are making 20 psi by 3300 rpm which I'm sure is good for lots of wheel spinning action. How's the transmission holding up so far?


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

the 36# injectors have definitely flowed more than we though- but a/f is fine and injector on time is still 18 ms... 
wheelspin is indeed an issue- larger housing is next on my "power" list, but clutch/tranny work is first.
seems to hold up fine, no slipping ytet, but i realize at that tq it's a timebomb


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

What rpm does it request 18ms ?
120sec/6500=18,4ms (100% duty)








Motronic max = 96%duty ~17,[email protected]

Jeff Attwood might have an answer to this matter because ill guess that he wont go over 80% duty on his software
But its great to see that u still use the dual plenum. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
My car never worked with it so i had to leav it in front plenum position.
It was to aggresive down low and the switch was to noticeble on 1st and 2nd gear.










_Modified by [email protected] at 12:49 PM 1-23-2007_


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

5700 rpms would be about the peak value on the higher boost runs


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

Get som 630s http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I think i remember Jeff telling me about that he had that file ready.
I run my 630s @ 96% @ 8000rpm


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

before that point i'd probably do about 8 other things, starting with a clutch, sri, lsd, .82 housing, etc


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

looks good man, crazy toque numbers ya got.. rebuilding my tranny right now, if I were you I'd get some good hard motor mounts before you trash a syncro like I just did..


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ 
Jeff Attwood might have an answer to this matter because ill guess that he wont go over 80% duty on his software
_Modified by [email protected] at 12:49 PM 1-23-2007_

I don't have ~control over how much boost folks decide to run.








I tell folks what data to watch.... and allow them to decide how far the wish to push things.

Theoretically speaking:
Peak torque = highest specific fuel flow (think per combustion cycle)
Peak power = highest net fuel flow (think total flow)
Check inj. duty at peak power.
if power curve is ~flat, check inj. duty at highest rpm at peak power.

-Jeff


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

i watched 002 and a/f.... im gonna tinker with timing and look into the relatively rich readings with respect to the front o2 sensor... and maybe invest in a wideband, as dyno time is expensive!


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_i watched 002 and a/f.... im gonna tinker with timing and look into the relatively rich readings with respect to the front o2 sensor... and maybe invest in a wideband, as dyno time is expensive!

you have a wideband from the factory, did you delete your SAI?


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## MK4futurayellowVR6 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*

what boost controller are you running


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*

I agree to that you are probably maxing out the injectors.... The dyno will load your motor differently then the street..... when I was tunning my setup, I was leaning the fuel out and was controlling it on the dyno at 20psi.... on the street, I was maxing out the injectors and had no control over the fueling....

my other $.02 is...... with 400wtq before 3500 is never going to get traction, no matter what drive train you do







... unless its 4th and 5th gear


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

all dyno runs were in 4th gear- more load than the car should see on the street, unless i have ~mad weight in the car on a hill
running a turboxs 2-stage mbc


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

All that Tq. is useless........get a bigger turbine on there and you will get to actually use the HP.


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_You need to take a little more time looking at ALL of the information man. He dynoed at 2 different boost levels.








whoops...Im a fool..


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_all dyno runs were in 4th gear- more load than the car should see on the street, unless i have ~mad weight in the car on a hill
running a turboxs 2-stage mbc

I used to make 425tq and 373hp with the same boost controller. After switching to a profec B I made 389tq and 400whp. The turbo xs spiked ~24psi and held 19psi. Profec sticks to 20-21 right away. That would be a lot easier on the drivetrain as well because you can lower the gain and make the turbo spool a lot slower.


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## MK4futurayellowVR6 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

sounds like your boost controller is robbing you some HP


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## eggman95 (Dec 4, 2002)

*Re: (MK4futurayellowVR6)*

those are some sweet numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (eggman95)*

Soupah, glad to see you getting your car working right! 
Please post pics of your intercooler piping. And remember, keep it between the lines and don't blow up that plastic manifold








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

The car has a very nice a/f curve besides being on the rich side.Good job Jeff! The only thing I thought was a little conservative was the timing but still car runs very smooth and pulls great.


_Modified by VR6T 20 PSI at 12:21 PM 1-24-2007_


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*

Thats a boost curve.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*

AFR is per Kinetic specifications.
Realize that software done for Kinetic, (or any other non-C2 kit) is
done to their specifications, not mine.
Take logs of the actual timing and knock retard.
(More agressive at WOT under boost than a stock N/A car)
If you want more, fiddle with Lemminwinks, AT YOUR OWN RISK.
-Jeff


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I know jackass that is a boost curve I did the work on the car and dyno'd the car. And the a/f curve is flat as hell. but thanks for clearing that up.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

The timing was only at 11.5 at most with your tune without adding any with lemminwinks....... And you told him that the a/f should have been 12.0? Besides he sent the ECU back to you to be updated since he had the front mount and lower comp. and as far as I know kinetic doesnt offer a intercooler kit so how could your lastest flash be per there request.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_I know jackass that is a boost curve I did the work on the car and dyno'd the car. And the a/f curve is flat as hell. but thanks for clearing that up.

Great, maybe next time give him the a/f graph to post dipstick.







I'm supposed to know you have priviledged information?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_The timing was only at 11.5 at most with your tune without adding any with lemminwinks....... And you told him that the a/f should have been 12.0? Besides he sent the ECU back to you to be updated since he had the front mount and lower comp. and as far as I know kinetic doesnt offer a intercooler kit so how could your lastest flash be per there request.

When we tested Kinetic's MkIV kit on my car with the Kinetic stage 2 intercooler upgrade, we used the stage 1 software: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2889617
A month or so after that, I tested out a new chip by Jeff with some beta features and a new fueling map. I believe [email protected] likes to keep it rich for safety, but Jeff tweaked the requested A/F curve on my chip so that I can potentially get better part throttle fuel economy. Have not dyno'd on that chip yet.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

same here- thats why the 11.3 a/f was a slight dissapointment still looking into possibilities though, car runs great.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_The timing was only at 11.5 at most with your tune without adding any with lemminwinks........

I just looked at the tune....
the requested lambda should be: afr = ~12.0. (what I put into 
David's customized file)
Timing, ~11.5 deg total timing??? There is NO WHERE on the
map that has timing values that low. (idle timing sure but not the
'driving' map)
I bet you were looking at ignition values when the car had a CAM
POSITION SENSOR code... (car picked up ~90whp once fixed.)
I can only tell you what's in the tune. I cna't MAKE the car run.
Don't take my word for it, you can see requested lambda just by logging block 031.
ALL the data we are discussing here can be logged with a vag-com
tool, hence its like aguing about how wet water is.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
David, Car looks good. Try not to blow up the intake manifold....








-Jeff


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

he's referring to after the code was fixed. i'll look at the 031 and get back to you. until then it's conjecture


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

car was logged countless times and timing WAS that low.... As for the a/f it is prolly the sensor, cant remebur how old david said it was, the car has had leaded fuel run through it a couple of times.


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*

what compression are you running?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_car was logged countless times and timing WAS that low.... As for the a/f it is prolly the sensor, cant remebur how old david said it was, the car has had leaded fuel run through it a couple of times.

I'm not trying to say you didn't see what you said, but
~11 deg total advance doesn't make sense based on the dyno chart....
power peak above ~350whp at ~16psi, wont happen on ~11 deg total advance. You've tuned standalone and know this as well.
Change the o2 sensor if you've run leaded fuel....
How about the age of the dyno's sensor??? (food for thought)

-Jeff


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

timing was added


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## NOTORIOUS VR (Sep 25, 2002)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (mikemcnair)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikemcnair* »_what compression are you running? 

x2


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (NOTORIOUS VR)*

8.5:1
gonna change the sensor i guess, i was under the impression they either work or don't, throw a code or don't. either way I want to reaffirm the car runs fine, i dont have a _problem_ with it, i just wanted to know if something was off.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif everyone


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_8.5:1


ok, so from the looks of things, you are running the exact same setup as me, with coils instead of a dizzy. 
so, turn the boost up a wee bit, and let me know what happens!!! lol, jk. 
no, i was serious......


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

i have thye fueling to do so, i'm just afraid of my clutch or intake manifold breaking 
all in good time


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

are you still running stock clutch?


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## cardshockey31 (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: (mikemcnair)*

David, my stock clutch is now toast







. .. Hopefully yours lasts longer, nice numbers!


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (cardshockey31)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cardshockey31* »_David, my stock clutch is now toast







. .. Hopefully yours lasts longer, nice numbers! 

at which point did it let go?


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (cardshockey31)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cardshockey31* »_David, my stock clutch is now toast







. .. Hopefully yours lasts longer, nice numbers! 

what kind of power were you making on it? I run at low boost, 10 psi, on the street. only turn it up for serious matters


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_8.5:1
gonna change the sensor i guess, *i was under the impression they either work or don't, throw a code or don't*. either way I want to reaffirm the car runs fine, i dont have a _problem_ with it, i just wanted to know if something was off.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif everyone

I'm under his impression too. Could rough running be caused buy a bad Pre-cat O2 even if it doesn't throw a code?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (FMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FMF* »_
I'm under his impression too. Could rough running be caused buy a bad Pre-cat O2 even if it doesn't throw a code?

If you clear the codes and run the emissions readiness tests and the all pass and no codes are stored, then the sensors should all be OK. The O2 sensor aging is the only wacky parameter. My O2 sensor aging parameter would flutuate between 0.7 and 1.1 for no apparent reason, so I replaced it and now no more wackiness. If that aging code is getting close to 0.8, even with no codes, better replace it.


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## 97vr6guy (Feb 27, 2006)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_
94 octane
I'll see about getting a dyno copy with the a/f shown... never went above *11.2* at redline- room to grow?!?!
That's a comparison between my high/low boost switch on the dash. 
Kinetic Stage 1 + autotech 262's + ARP headstuds/rodbolts + fmic +open electric cutout (normally catless 2.75 Jetex exhaust)
stock clutch
fmic from Just-intercoolers on ebay- 26x6x2.75- 66 shipped!!(Store)

more dyno graphs of cutout open/closed and intake shifter rod enabled/disabled (rattling badly) coming soon.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
_Modified by Soupuh at 1:02 AM 1-23-2007_

Hey man dont mean to change the subject but your running a fmic from ebay..i was looking into the just intercoolers too. your running a 31X11X3? and where did you get your piping from? thats the last thing for my vrt that im buying. thanks for the help


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## sorin.p (Oct 31, 2007)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*

Get a good EBC and get it tuned properly before you break **** with that torque spike


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

so are the intercoolers from just intercoolers good. i saw they were bar and plate and they looked good but i wasnt sure if they compaired to say spearco or precision


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## 97vr6guy (Feb 27, 2006)

*Re: (bdcoombs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bdcoombs* »_so are the intercoolers from just intercoolers good. i saw they were bar and plate and they looked good but i wasnt sure if they compaired to say spearco or precision

Same question..and one other..if you do buy an intercooler from them where can you buy piping for it?


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
If you want more, fiddle with Lemminwinks, *AT YOUR OWN RISK*.
-Jeff


You can't understand how many people get the shareware version and decide to do some "tuning" that have no idea what they are doing.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (sorin.p)*

it's been boosting properly for about 10 months now. the short runner intake lessoned the spike's "hit" a lot, but the car is now hitting and holding 20 psi just fine.


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: 2001 Jetta VRT C2 Dyno (Soupuh)*

how is the quality of your intercooler from just intercoolers, is it a true bar and plate like spearco or precision


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

it is a true bar and plate, and i'd bet most people couldn't tell the difference between the two. I'd buy from them again, for sure


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## 97vr6guy (Feb 27, 2006)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_it is a true bar and plate, and i'd bet most people couldn't tell the difference between the two. I'd buy from them again, for sure

Where do you get your piping from?


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (97vr6guy)*

piping was purchased at a local shop and a friend fabbed it all up for me


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## vwjon21 (Jan 17, 2004)

i love this post keep up the info coming


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (vwjon21)*

im curious what the difference in tune for the mk4 is from the mk3. they are both 12v 2.8L.
however, the mk4 runs 36# injectors and makes more power than the mk3 running 30# injectors.
as for the intercooler, i have a "just intercoolers" intercooler too. it works great and the quailty is great. i would definitely buy from them again.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

afaik, the reason stage 1 for the mk4 comes with 36# injectors is that nothing larger will fit with the stock intake manifold... so for some, 36# are the "limit".


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Soupuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_afaik, the reason stage 1 for the mk4 comes with 36# injectors is that nothing larger will fit with the stock intake manifold... so for some, 36# are the "limit".

Also, the instake manfold will ~explode at the boost pressures required to
make more then 350whp... so 36# inj. on the stock manifld seems 'right'.

-Jeff


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