# Any 09 people have/want a dpf delete?



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

Been looking on the european forums- those guys are doing DPF deletes and ecu reflashes and seeing ridiculous fuel economy and power numbers on the newer TDI motors like ours (09+). Trying to drum up some interest so maybe some tuners notice. Would you guys be down? I have an interested company but they want to see if theres any people up for it. PM me with any specific questions, but I am not selling or making money on this stuff in any way, I just want a quicker and more fuel efficient tdi!
Thanks!!
Josh


_Modified by themachasy at 4:35 PM 3-7-2010_


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

I take it the "interested" company isn't worried about fines for violating federal emissions laws?


----------



## MXTHOR3 (Jan 10, 2003)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_I take it the "interested" company isn't worried about fines for violating federal emissions laws?


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_I take it the "interested" company isn't worried about fines for violating federal emissions laws?

You realize how many diesel trucks are out there with DPF deletes??? Take a look at their mileage gains and power gains. Don't question it, just answer the question.








Lots of companies do it already. They're not all getting fined...


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

I have no idea how many Diesel trucks are out there with DPF deletes. I also have no idea how many people sell pot in my town. Both are illegal and I have no plans to do either. Fines for tampering with the emissions system start at $10K.
If a reputable tuner offers a tune that works _with_ the DPF and still offers more power and fuel mileage gains, I'm interested.


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_I have no idea how many Diesel trucks are out there with DPF deletes. I also have no idea how many people sell pot in my town. Both are illegal and I have no plans to do either. Fines for tampering with the emissions system start at $10K.
If a reputable tuner offers a tune that works _with_ the DPF and still offers more power and fuel mileage gains, I'm interested.

That is available too


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

The only one I know of so far is REVO, but there's not much info out there regarding the effect of tuning on the DPF.


----------



## mosquiton_001 (Sep 17, 2009)

*Re: Any 09 people have/want a dpf delete? (themachasy)*

I am from europe..
here some company are starting to sell specific downpipes with delete the DPF (and have the "holes" to keep the sensor in place to avoid DPF faliure signals)
wiche leads to a lower fuel consumption, better engine response under "heavy load" and lower turbo operating temperatures (wich theoretically return longer lasting turbo life)

the only "downside" is that in order to do a "clean job" a reflash of the ECU is necessary to delete the DPF regeneration cycles.. wich without the DPF installed would result in smokey exhaust gases every once in a while)

as far a "power increase" without a remap most people claim a 10hp and 10 nm torque increase (just after deleting the DPF) with a remap you can gain about 40 hp
plus no more risk of having a "stuck" dpf for thoose who do a lot of traffic and fail to regenerate it properly....
there are also company wich offer reflash to have gains of HP and TQ WITH the DPF installed.. but gains are not as good as "older" diesel or cars with the DPF delete since there is a significant "bottleneck" in the exhaust and the tuner cannot give proper amount of fuel as it should under heavy loads.. since it would saturate the DPF or lead to an excessive increase of turbo temperature (wich is too close to the DPF in the VAG vehicles)

so a chipped DPF car expect about a 20hp gain at best.. no more...


_Modified by mosquiton_001 at 2:50 AM 3-11-2010_


----------



## PDI (Sep 24, 2008)

How many folks here in the states run tdi's with no cat? Isn't this a required emissions device from the Feds? If you can do it, do it! I don't have an 09 so i am not interested in it right now. If i did, well, sign me up!


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

The catalytic converter is most certainly a required emission control device. And indeed, in the USA, fines for tampering with emission control equipment in an on-road vehicle start at $10,000. The car will fail periodic emission inspection if the catalytic converter is not there. If your jurisdiction doesn't have a periodic inspection, then there is a possibility that no one will ever know ... BUT ... that doesn't make the removal of the catalytic converter any less legal.
I would be really wary about selling devices intended to defeat emission control systems in the USA. The old "For Off Highway Use Only" is starting to not work so well; there have been cases where the EPA and/or CARB have investigated to find out if such devices were being sold to people who were going to use them on the road.
I know that the manufacturer of motorcycle PowerCommander systems (for recalibrating fuel injection systems) got a big fine not too long ago for violating CARB rules, and the "not for highway use" thing did not save them.


----------



## PDI (Sep 24, 2008)

*Re: (GoFaster)*

I agree to an extent! The dpf is very simple device. It collects dust, the ecu measure this change in pressure and burns it off. How long do think this process will last or how long do you think this dpf will last? With simple tuning, in one case I know it has lasted 60k and still going strong. But what happens when long after your warranty is up this thing fails and needs to be replaced? Anyone, anyone? I know, later days to that turd! 
My point is most tdi owners are into these cars for there longevity, mpg, and reliability. You can think of all the money you saved in service and fuel before this. However the mind doesn't work that way. It's think motherphucker, I gotta drop 5 g's to fix this! 
Unless I am a fool and this is covered under emissions warranty!


----------



## dterry1982 (Nov 17, 2006)

*Re: (PDI)*

im totally down for a DPF delete, i need some noise, this car is too quiet! The additional performance and MPG's would be nice too.


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

The DPF is indeed covered under the emissions warranty.
And VW claims it will last at least 120,000 miles. There have not been a rash of premature failures (in fact, I have yet to hear of a single one), so that is most likely a conservative estimate as long as you use the correct ultra-low-sulfur fuel and don't go TOO crazy with the hot-rodding.


----------



## PDI (Sep 24, 2008)

*Re: (GoFaster)*

Ahh.. That is reassuring! I am trying like hell to get me wife to buy a Tiguan when it comes out. She has an 08 CRV that does NOT get the rated mpg. It is a slug and is gutless. The AWD on it though is pretty damn good.


----------



## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: (GoFaster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoFaster* »_The DPF is indeed covered under the emissions warranty.
And VW claims it will last at least 120,000 miles. There have not been a rash of premature failures (in fact, I have yet to hear of a single one), so that is most likely a conservative estimate as long as you use the correct ultra-low-sulfur fuel and don't go TOO crazy with the hot-rodding.

And I doubt that you would hear of any one, since I doubt that in the year and a half that the 09s have been out I don't think anyone could put a 120,000 miles on. That would be 80,000 miles a year








I'm personally not completely sold the DPF implementation for emissions reasons. I was talking to one of the semi drivers who is currently driving a new Peterbuilt with the DPF in place and it's been in the shop quite a bit and if I remember correctly said that the DPF had to be replaced at 25,000 miles.


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

You shouldn't compare the VW installation to that used on other engines, though. I KNOW that the DPF has been a problem area on some other vehicles. It has thus far NOT been a problem on the VW installation.
The VW has a crucial design difference; the DPF is very closely coupled to the engine and the oxidation catalyst so that it runs in a better temperature range. It is essentially part of the engine - not part of the exhaust system further down the pipe.


----------



## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_The only one I know of so far is REVO, but there's not much info out there regarding the effect of tuning on the DPF.

I spoke to these guys last week. They offer a flash for people doing a lot of city/stop and go, and another for higher power and better open road mileage. They said they've tested both on US CR140 cars for almost a year, and were convincing (spoke to a guy named Jim for 20 min) that they know what they're doing.
http://www.inmotionusa.com/vwgraphs.html


----------



## hartracing390fe (Mar 18, 2010)

*Re: (brian81)*

I have a 09 jetta tdi and easily put 7500km a month on it. I would love a dpf delete. The car WILL NOT run any dirtier than before. I don't want to argue EPA laws, but sometimes their wrong.


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

_Quote »_The car WILL NOT run any dirtier than before.

How do you figure?


----------



## MadJerry (Sep 25, 2008)

I am new to TDI land. What the eff is a DPF?


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

_Quote »_I am new to TDI land. What the eff is a DPF?

Diesel Particulate Filter. A complex and expensive piece of the emissions/exhaust system. 
Basically it traps soot particles from the exhaust and periodically burns them off. The idea is that there's no black smoke coming from the car and that the burnt-off soot is less polluting than plain old fashioned soot.


----------



## PDI (Sep 24, 2008)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*

The dpf is a very, very simple device! The control system to control it is a different story..... But to some folks "thisa nota problem!"










_Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_
Diesel Particulate Filter. A complex and expensive piece of the emissions/exhaust system. 
Basically it traps soot particles from the exhaust and periodically burns them off. The idea is that there's no black smoke coming from the car and that the burnt-off soot is less polluting than plain old fashioned soot.


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (PDI)*

If anyone is out near colorado or willing to drive there hit me up. I can't spare my car for that long (I'm in miami, long drive). My tuner is located there, will get you a dpf delete and software with the quickness!


----------



## hartracing390fe (Mar 18, 2010)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*

The engine itself doesn't run any cleaner or dirtier. The dpf uses raw fuel to reburn to the point you can't SEE the exhaust. It is still there. The 2.0 burns cleaner than epa regulations without the filter, it is only there because law dictates it.


----------



## hartracing390fe (Mar 18, 2010)

*Re: (themachasy)*

I have family in colorado, send me a pm and I'll check it out.


----------



## PackingHeat (Mar 22, 2010)

Hook me up if it is reliable. For all the greenies, the increase in mpg would reduce overall fuel use. The emissions reduction from less tanker trips delivering fuel (extrapolated over all cars with this mod) would more than make up for a tiny, if existant at all, increase in the TDI emissions. The only good reason not to do this would be if you were going to place a coffee filter over your tailpipe and then make a pot of coffee with it. Actually, certain biodiesel exhaust might add a subtle enhancement to the swill I drink at work. I vote for bio made from almond oil.


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (hartracing390fe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hartracing390fe* »_I have family in colorado, send me a pm and I'll check it out.









PM'd, I am very excite!


----------



## vw tdi guy (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_I take it the "interested" company isn't worried about fines for violating federal emissions laws?

I take it you nevar speed or go threw yellow lights either. He did not ask anything about emissions laws and they are a joke in the US anyway. Have you hugged your tree today.








Laws are made to be broken just like rules. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

_Quote »_I take it you nevar speed or go threw yellow lights either.

It's got nothing to do with being a tree hugger. Speeding or running a yellow/red light isn't a $10,000 fine like tampering/removing emissions equipment. The likelihood of getting caught may be slim, just as slim as getting caught for using dyed #2 heating oil, but it's not impossible.
If when purchasing my '09 I had had the option of a DPF or more power for the same price, I'd have taken the HP & torque.


_Modified by OttoSchultz at 1:34 PM 3-23-2010_


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_
It's got nothing to do with being a tree hugger. Speeding or running a yellow/red light isn't a $10,000 fine like tampering/removing emissions equipment. The likelihood of getting caught may be slim, just as slim as getting caught for using dyed #2 heating oil, but it's not impossible.
If when purchasing my '09 I had had the option of a DPF or more power for the same price, I'd have taken the HP & torque.

_Modified by OttoSchultz at 1:34 PM 3-23-2010_

My thing is me getting 10+ mpg better works great for me. I've had several catless cars and never had an issue. Never had any friends who had issues, then again I live in florida and we don't even have inspection.


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I am definitely interested in this. Maybe once my car is out of warranty, but im super interested.


----------



## TuscaniElisaV6 (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Rev Jerry)*

inmotion...noted







$400


----------



## hartracing390fe (Mar 18, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (Rev Jerry)*

To the guy in Florida, what thing do you have on your tdi that gets you 10mpg? I found a legitimate flash to turn off the dpf for $600.


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (hartracing390fe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hartracing390fe* »_To the guy in Florida, what thing do you have on your tdi that gets you 10mpg? I found a legitimate flash to turn off the dpf for $600.









It's not just turning off the dpf- its removing it. It's a restriction in the system. The guys with the TDI170s in europe with software and dpf removal are seeing 10-15mpg gains because of the restriction of the dpf. It's job is to clog and the ecu reads the clogged dpf, goes into regen and burns off the soot.


_Modified by themachasy at 5:45 AM 4-18-2010_


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: (GoFaster)*

first off, this is why you always buy a vehicle used... that way, you can drop the line "well gee officer, why i do apologize, i had no idea the... DLP was it?... was missing... this car was as you see it when i bought it."
also, what the hell were you doing to get a state boy that up i arms hes looking under your car? lol
and if these motorcycle tuners got fined even when they said it was for off highway use, someone needs to throw in the towel and call foul for these boys, cause thats not how the law reads... it just shows the EPA and C.A.R.B. can do as they please and dont have to answer to anyone...
lastly, if you do find yourself getting randomly stopped and having police get on there hands and knees to see your exhaust... this is what you do... move out of Cali... lol
if the rest of the US continues to adopt more and more of CA's amazingly stupid legislation, (really, how smart can this state be, they are bankrupt as sin...) i will A. continue to find ways around it, B finally just pack up and leave.
and this isnt posted to start a fight, if you want to run fully legit, thats completely understandable, i'm A. venting, B. maybe you'll read this and see things from another perspective. but people really do need to wake up and see what we are missing out on because of all this legislation... in the US we can get a VERY limited amount of german diesels... the rest of the world gets diesel powered cars and compact pick-ups from Ford, GM, Chrysler, Fiat, Mazda, Subaru (we were SUPPOSED to get there diesel here, which in a FORESTER could get 37MPG COMBINED CITY/HWY!!!!) Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, BMW 320D, V6 TDI, and loads of other SWEET stuff... to the EPA, leave engine manufacturers and vehicle manufacturers alone, go after the factorys and power companys... them and the farting cows... lol


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: (PackingHeat)*

MMMMM diesels run on almond oil smell O-MAZING!







lol


----------



## hartracing390fe (Mar 18, 2010)

I don't live in the states, I plan on removing the dpf, an officer wouldn't know what he's looking at anyways!


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (hartracing390fe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hartracing390fe* »_I don't live in the states, I plan on removing the dpf, an officer wouldn't know what he's looking at anyways!

Our officers don't know the difference between a DPF and a DUI.








Still looking for someone near Colorado. Don't make me drive the 2000 miles!! lol


----------



## TR10 (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: (amctilldeath)*


_Quote, originally posted by *amctilldeath* »_first off, this is why you always buy a vehicle used... that way, you can drop the line "well gee officer, why i do apologize, i had no idea the... DLP was it?... was missing... this car was as you see it when i bought it."

I don't know about you, but I don't usually factor in *likelyhood of getting out of a ticket with this car* into my vehicle purchases. It's not like that LEO will have any way to verify whether you purchased it new or used, anyway...
Secondly, if you've ever had a run-in with an LEO, or kept up with the news, you'd know that ignorance is no excuse. Matter of fact, you're more likely to get a ticket by trying to pass off excuses... complete honesty with an LEO will go a long way, and is usually the difference between a warning and a ticket. 
Hell...I bet down here in Florida you could get pulled for speeding, then spend the next 20 minutes explaining to the officer _"how the DPF in your new Volkswagen TDI motor is deleted and you reflashed the ECU so your MPG would increase, but it's against federal emission laws and you feel really bad but you need to save the money on gas and there's like this huge debate on VWVortex.com about it and your friend said that blah, blah, blah,etc."_ and he would look at you like you're an idiot, then walk away.


_Modified by TR10 at 1:01 AM 4-21-2010_


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: (TR10)*

lol you are looking at it from the wrong angle man. im not factoring in getting out of a ticket into my vehicle purchase... i am factoring a vehicle that has great potential, but is severely handicapped due to a few stupid laws. i am simply finding ways around them... im not gonna sacrifice 40 hp and 15 mpg to appease a few ppl... sorry... if i were that concerned about the legitimacy of it all "and the ability to get out of a ticket" i would simply swap it into a pre emissions vehicle. and back to the newer car,believe me, the cop may still write the ticket, but theres no way in hell a judge wouldnt drop it in a heartbeat, specially with documentation and if it still stuck, you appeal and get a lawyer... donzo
if i get stopped for speeding, what reason do they have to check my exhaust anyway? since you are using the acronym LEO, i am going to assume you are somehow involved with law enforcement?
the other option guys, is remove the DPF, hollow it out, and reinstall... visual inspection problem... SOLVED... or, we could just all move to mexico... there economy cant be any worse than ours... lol...


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

_Quote »_the other option guys, is remove the DPF, hollow it out, and reinstall... visual inspection problem... SOLVED... or, we could just all move to mexico... there economy cant be any worse than ours... lol... 

That may work in states that only do visual checks for exhaust/emissions components during annual inspections. Many states plug into the OBDII port to check emissions system readiness. Just hollowing the DPF will probably cause CELs, most states will fail you automatically if there are any codes present. 
So the next requirement is a tune that deletes the DPF. Given the difficulties of tuning the '09+, I'm betting that eliminating the DPF from the ECU is also difficult.


----------



## hartracing390fe (Mar 18, 2010)

A proven tune from Europe is available in north america, it's just finding some one to do the exhaust work.


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

_Quote »_A proven tune from Europe is available in north america, it's just finding some one to do the exhaust work.

Is someone *reputable* doing the tuning? The EDC17 is a difficult ECU to tune, and I know of at least one that was bricked, at TDIFest '09 of all places.


_Modified by OttoSchultz at 6:00 PM 4-22-2010_


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*

first off, i have to apologize, i thought it would be assumed from earlier posts that the ecu would get a reflash upon removal of the DPF. i'll make it a point to be more clear with every post, i know it might get confuzing to some, especially when theres a few pages of posts. thanks for bringing that up though, it is a valid point. 
but yes you would want to reflash, as this is where you will have the most to gain from fuel savings, as there is now no need for any to be wasted on post combustion injection to keep the DPF clear (not to mention improved efficiency from vastly improved exhaust flow) ... now if you choose to absorb the fuel savings in boosted fuel economy, or you choose to slightly enrich your fuel mixture and add a little more boost for even more power, well now thats up to you...







... lol
as far as visual inspection, i just meant if johnny law gets a little curious, as far as inspections are concerned, theres no way around a computer scan, but there are other ways to get around it in general. sorry, but i do not want to post those on here. if your that interested, PM me and i'll tell you.
out of sheer curiosity, what does it cost in Massachusetts to register a car annually? between registration fees, inspection fees (if there are any) and city stickers (if there are any) and any other new found ways that municipalities have managed to try to wring us out of money... lol.


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

Regular passenger non-commercial registration is now $50 per year. Annual safety & emissions testing is $29. I don't know if any cities/municipalities require any special stickers, but some neighborhoods require a permit for on-street residential parking.
We also have excise tax, which is currently $25 per $1000 valuation, how they arrive at the valuation is a bit of a mystery. My '09 went from being valued at $22k for the '09 excise tax bill to $13k for the '10 bill.


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: (OttoSchultz)*

HOLY F$%K CHUCK! thats 550-325 a year plus $79!!! wow. i'm appalled. thanks for sharing. they probly use kbb or something


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

I certainly hope they don't use KBB: my '09 better be worth more than $13k right now!
Yes, it's definitely an expensive state, vehicle-wise. Everything needs to be registered--boats, trailers, tractors, ATV, snowmobiles, etc, and I believe they all pay excise tax.


----------



## sharpiecarp (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: dpf delete*

reciently purchased a 2010 jetta sport wagon tdi and am looking to do a dpf delete when warntie is done the 70 thousand miles should come quickly in this fun ride have seen dpf deletes in europe looks like a sound idea commonly done on skoda tdi's running the same 2.0 engine 
http://www.midlandvw.co.uk this company has the down pipe. looks solid I have heard people say ecu reflash what prameters would you need to change evactly


----------



## sharpiecarp (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: dpf delete (sharpiecarp)*

and to all the people that are against the dpf delete i dont know if you truly under stand how a turbo charged diesel engine works here are some down sides to the dpf 
robbed horse power and fuel economy 
inability to run #2 or agricutial diesel 
not able to run bio diesel over b20 
higher egt 
in city conditions not able to activate regen cycle


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: dpf delete (sharpiecarp)*

what are you talking about? those all sound like very sensible things to give up just to make EEEEPA happy! power... fuel economy... options for fuel... engine longevity... 
you ever notice when manufacturers learn how to make good/crazy power within a certai emissions setting, they mandate a whole bunch more power robbing fuel guzzling ****?


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: dpf delete (sharpiecarp)*

good job man, congrats... i've been in the market for a TDI again, almost pulled the trigger on a few recently, but have decided to wait, at least a few months, due to our WONDERFUL economy... so i'll be makin do with my 1983 w123 300TD.... plus side is i can carry 7 passengers with that








but have decided to go with a 1.9L for now when i do get one, i'll wait for the 2.0L to get cheaper, get a few miles under there belts and fall out warranty... plus, the mercedes is alot less picky about fuel, and much lower cost for parts should i f$%k something up


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: dpf delete (amctilldeath)*

forgot to subscribe, lol


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: dpf delete (sharpiecarp)*

It has nothing to with misunderstanding how a Diesel--or a gas engine--runs. It kind of defeats the purpose of buying a "Clean Diesel" if you plan to remove all the components that make it clean.
As for your list of cons:
Robbed HP and MPG--you are correct.
Innability to run #2?....what do you think we get from a pump at a station?....#2 Diesel. I wouldn't want to run #2 heating oil or farm Diesel because of the sulfur content.
B20+....Read the owners manual, VW prohibits the use of anything over B5. Given that these cars already get lower mileage than they should, I don't want to run anything higher than B5, since Bio blends have a lower BTU content.
Higer EGT.....need that to keep the DPF passive regens happening.
City driving will lead to Active Regens.....this is what's going on when you hear the fans randomly running at a stop light, or after turning the engine off.


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

*Re: dpf delete (OttoSchultz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_
City driving will lead to Active Regens.....this is what's going on when you hear the fans randomly running at a stop light, or after turning the engine off.

Actually that's the car trying to get everything cooled off under the hood. Unless you are doing above 2000 rpm and a speed greater than 37 mph for a certain period of time your car won't go into regen.
Normally the fans mean you failed to complete the regen cycle.


----------



## PDI (Sep 24, 2008)

*Re: dpf delete (OttoSchultz)*

Well, try to buy a brand new "unclean" diesel then!


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

_Quote »_Actually that's the car trying to get everything cooled off under the hood. Unless you are doing above 2000 rpm and a speed greater than 37 mph for a certain period of time your car won't go into regen.
Normally the fans mean you failed to complete the regen cycle.

Yes, the fans are to keep things cool. but they run _during_ regens also, not just after. Driving 37 for X minutes is to help _promote_ passive regens, it doesn't mean everytime you drive 37 that you'll go into active mode. Also, you may come to a stop light during an active regen. The regen continues, hence the running fans.
Passive regens happen seemlessly while driving if the EGTs are high enough, and the fans may not be needed. 
If you're doing a lot of low speed/stop & go driving an Active regen may be needed. This is when fuel is injected into the exhaust stroke to push up EGTs and cause an active burn.


----------



## sharpiecarp (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: dpf delete (OttoSchultz)*

SO lets clear up what i posted earlier and what some people responded with 
#2 diesel (aka red or off road diesel) is not is not what you get at the pump and or what the 2.0 tdi needs to run properly. #2 contains 50 ppm of sulfur. Ultra low sulfur diesel what the tdi calls for containes 10 ppm of sulfur. the extra sulfur will cause the dpf to clog quicker and go through more regen cycles 
As far as why i said B20 not B5 is because B20 is one of the most common bio blends found through out the us granted there is a slight btu loss but it is negliable due to increase in lubrication and o sulfur content of the fuel (here is a pdf showing btu of difrent fuels http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_f...5.pdf ) due to past experience with bio you will gain mileage engine longevity and horse power. rember diesels were ment to run on penut oil.
Highway driving not city driving will cause an active regen city driving and higher egt will cause passiave regen read this about dpf cycles http://www.allbusiness.com/tra....html trucks or cars it is still the same filter 
with proper tuning and incresed air flow on bolth intake and exaust you will have a cleaner burning diesel engine I know I am new here but post acatual information not just unreserched opinoins


----------



## hartracing390fe (Mar 18, 2010)

actual information
DPF is required by law, not necessity. For this reason the tdi was not available for two years.
Europe has a pipe and a proven tune that increase power and economy.(I can sell you both) nobody has emission tested this setup, but no smoke of any kind has been reported either.
The o2 sensor is for egr control feedback not air/fuel. The butterfly valve next to it works with one upstream for a constant flow egr.
DPF delete and high flow exhaust are the only proven upgrades.
BSR sells a programmer but its just changing stock 140bhp to stock 170bhp.
I don't know of any documented propane or methanol setups yet. I'm going to try both once I get my hex-com.
Snow performance claims gains, but only on one car not thoroughly tested for any length of time.


----------



## amctilldeath (Apr 12, 2010)

*Re: dpf delete (OttoSchultz)*

Im not buying it cause its a clean diesel. (that part and its extra cost are being forced upon me) i'm cosidering it cause it puts out almost double the power of the 1.9... though the higher cost of replacement parts makes me want to stick with the 1.9...
as has already been discussed, your numbering with the fuel is a little off, as is the concern over sulfer content (really not trying to be a dick, but if your unsure, A: you shouldnt have that violent of an opinion on it either way, AT LEAST YET B: google it, wikipedia it at the very least, but more importantly, ask knowledgeable, UNBIASED people about it. if something you hear, see or read gets you fired up, great, but dont go off half cocked about it... like when you went off about the bio blends.... rather than just going off what the owners manual tells you, find out WHY... if the owners manual tells you to change the oil in your car every 10,000, are you going to follow that? please... tell me... so i know to NEVER BUY YOUR CAR, lol... but you see what i mean... always ask questions
the reason bio diesel cant be run in "clean diesels" is because of the periodic post combustion injection, the extra shot of fuel on the exhaust stroke to clean the DPF... the bio diesel/ veggie oil clings to the cylinder walls and mixes with and breaks down you engine oil VERY rapidly... but now remember, with the DPF gone, and the computer reflashed, 
there's no longer any fuel being injected post combustion, and all is well in the land of the french fry...








but any way, i am not even considering running number 2... that would be like champagne for my car... and my car is used to such a vile concoction for fuel, its the equivalent of Pepe Lopez tequila... if you have never drank any, DO NOT! it smells like butterscotch, and tastes like rotten *******... if you have... i am so sorry... lol


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

_Quote »_as has already been discussed, your numbering with the fuel is a little off, as is the concern over sulfer content (really not trying to be a dick, but if your unsure, A: you shouldn't have that violent of an opinion on it either way, AT LEAST YET B: google it, wikipedia it at the very least, but more importantly, ask knowledgeable, UNBIASED people about it. if something you hear, see or read gets you fired up, great, but dont go off half cocked about it... like when you went off about the bio blends.... rather than just going off what the owners manual tells you, find out WHY... if the owners manual tells you to change the oil in your car every 10,000, are you going to follow that? please... tell me... so i know to NEVER BUY YOUR CAR, lol... but you see what i mean... always ask questions

What the hell are you talking about? I've been driving Diesels and reading about Diesels for 15+ years. I have a clue as to how they run.
The info in the owner's manual is worth reading, if you want to keep your warranty in effect. I understand the issues of Bio and the after-injection. Higher concentrations of Bio don't vaporize the way Dino does. If it doesn't vaporize it won't burn off the crap in the in DPF. VWaG doesn't want to pay to replace DPFs that have been clogged due to B20+ or WVO so SVO.
10,000 mile oil changes.....don't know where that came from, but yes, that's the schedule I'm following, as earlier generation TDIs run on high sulfur fuel and crappy oil have fared just fine with the same schedule.
If you want to remove the DPF and related components, knock your socks off.


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

So can anyone identify what each piece of equipment in the exahst system is? I have taken pictures and will post up. I have a 2010 Golf TDI us spec.


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

WTH is this?








CAT?








MINI CAT?

I am wanting to replace the muffler, for a bit more noise... 








another shot








and part of the down pipe with flex section


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

Pics 1 & 4 are the downstream EGR flapper valve. You are correct about 2 & 3. They are the cats. The slanted part in the downpipe is probably the bottom end of the DPF. They are all required parts of the emissions system.

The muffler is not technically an emissions item, so it can be removed/replaced. But don't waste your money replacing it because you won't get much more sound. Read through the Borla thread. They're selling a straight pipe to run from the second cat back, and it only makes a slightly noticable difference at WOT. Find an exhaust shop that can make a custom 2nd cat back system and you'll save some money.


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

pretty much what I plan to do. thanks.


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

to the OP, being over here in europe at the moment, I would be interested in a dpf deleat tune if it came with a "test Pipe" meaning if they included a downpipe with out the DPF. we are pretty lucky that vw decided to use v band clamps, as those are easier to use, and should be quicker to change components.

I think it would be "interesting" to see what a tuner could get from this motor if all the emissions stuff was removed, ie a straight pipe from the turbo all the way back. now I know that this goes against the regs and laws and whatnot. but just saying it would be interesting to find out what the motor could do if it were not limited in exhaust flow.

I wonder how hard it would be to change the whole exhaust system out for an "off road use only" turbo back straight 3in pipe. and change the tune from stock or tuned stock to tuned straight pipe, and also what the difference would be in egt,mpg,HP and TQ since that is what most TDIers are concerned with.

if the tune could eliminate those anoying CELs and bump the boost and fuel accordingly, so that you were efficently burning all the fuel you inject...you know so you would not be dumping all that stereotypical black smoke from the tailpipe. and make use of a higher flowing lower restriction exhaust.... mmmmm 




I can dream cant I?


----------



## joaker (Apr 19, 2010)

hartracing390fe said:


> actual information
> DPF is required by law, not necessity. For this reason the tdi was not available for two years.
> Europe has a pipe and a proven tune that increase power and economy.(I can sell you both) nobody has emission tested this setup, but no smoke of any kind has been reported either.
> The o2 sensor is for egr control feedback not air/fuel. The butterfly valve next to it works with one upstream for a constant flow egr.
> ...


You mention being able to sell both the pipe and tune, could you PM me with more details by chance? Our 09 is not getting close to the mileage that my brother's 01 does with straight pipe, tuning and an air intake. I would love to at least match what his does if possible.


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

You're not likely to match the mileage of an ALH in an '09/10 unless you go 55mph constantly. The '09 is heavier than an '01 and has a lot more power.


----------



## Torque Dork (Jul 8, 2010)

Hello, I pm'ed you!


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

Torque Dork said:


> Hello, I pm'ed you!


 Who did you PM?


----------



## Torque Dork (Jul 8, 2010)

Hey, I pm'ed themachasy!


----------



## haltaylor (Aug 3, 2010)

*dpf delete*

I will be interested once I am out of warrenty


----------



## sudsgl (Sep 20, 2007)

Has anyone removed their DPF without getting a DPF delete tune?
Would it be possible to place a resistor in the downstream DPF sensor to mimic proper "empty" DPF operation?

TIA


----------



## chittychittybangbang (May 28, 2007)

sudsgl said:


> Has anyone removed their DPF without getting a DPF delete tune?
> Would it be possible to place a resistor in the downstream DPF sensor to mimic proper "empty" DPF operation?
> 
> TIA


This is not possible due, the EGR, DPF, and injectors are all tied together in a system. You need the tune. Here is a detailed FAQ with pictures showing how it works. http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/DPF-Adblue-FAQ-VW-Audi.htm


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

Still working on a solution. Hopefully something soon


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

thats a really good link, thanks for the reading material.


----------



## papa (Jan 23, 2005)

please post up when you guys find out a good tune / pipe delete set up.

Has anyone removed the dpf and all the cats with a tune yet? curious about mpg gains

I want some info, i dont care whats legal or not.

Thanks


----------



## dterry1982 (Nov 17, 2006)

Be patient guys and keep your eyes open, products are coming!


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

Should have something available soon. keep you eye out


----------



## doofoo (Jun 27, 2006)

themachasy said:


> Should have something available soon. keep you eye out


Very interested.  Subscribing to thread.


----------



## takentolightly (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm thinking about trading my prius for a TDI cup. EXTREMELY interested in this mod.

I have a DPF-less truck and it only soots when you get on it hard, and thats only a bit when you start off. the Tune makes all the difference.

I'm going to get ahold of Edge Tuning, they may be able to crack it with a proper DPF delete.

www.hsperformance.com does both pipes and tuners, they may have some input if there is enough interest. they were the first to remove it from the 6.7 dodge.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

takentolightly said:


> I'm thinking about trading my prius for a TDI cup. EXTREMELY interested in this mod.
> 
> I have a DPF-less truck and it only soots when you get on it hard, and thats only a bit when you start off. the Tune makes all the difference.
> 
> ...


please trade in your prius NOW!!!! :screwy:


----------



## nosent (Nov 23, 2004)

im interested in the delete and tune too. keep us up to date. screw the law and give me better mileage!


----------



## djeuroalex (Sep 19, 2006)

*DPF Delete*

There are Huge gains after removal of DPF. Power gain, torque gain and 10-20 mpg. The Cheapest way to do this mod would be removing your PDF of the car. Cutting out a section,removing filter material inside and welding it backup. ECU will also need to be modified/re flashed so ECU No longer requests any regeneration, this is what dramatically improves MPG. If you can read the ECU file yourself i can modify your file to delete DPF so there would be no regeneration and not codes thrown for DPF. PM me if anyone is interested. 
examples


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

Did you also hollow out the various cats?


----------



## doofoo (Jun 27, 2006)

djeuroalex said:


> There are Huge gains after removal of DPF. Power gain, torque gain and 10-20 mpg. The Cheapest way to do this mod would be removing your PDF of the car. Cutting out a section,removing filter material inside and welding it backup. ECU will also need to be modified/re flashed so ECU No longer requests any regeneration, this is what dramatically improves MPG. If you can read the ECU file yourself i can modify your file to delete DPF so there would be no regeneration and not codes thrown for DPF. PM me if anyone is interested.
> examples


 How hard is it to get the DPF out of the 09+'s? Are you doing any other ECU modifications to gain that increase in MPG? 

Have you tested this on any other CR TDI's? If so, how many & how many miles? What type of increases are you seeing? 

Very interested in doing this but want to make sure I'm not losing any reliability.


----------



## dterry1982 (Nov 17, 2006)

Its pretty easy to get it out. Its a little tougher than removing a typical donwpipe, but its just some vbands a few bolts, sensors and a fuel line. I am slightly worried about gutting my DPF, simply because I would like to be able to revert back to stock when selling the car, but if something isn't released soon, it will be time to fire up the plasma-cutter


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

Working on a solution as we speak. Hopefully will have some testing to report within the next few weeks.


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

I just want something that will pass the visual inspection, will give me a huge mpg increase, and not produce soot. I know I'll soot a little with this thing gone, but a man can dream!


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Definitely interested in a dpf delete.


----------



## dterry1982 (Nov 17, 2006)

Anybody interested in the DPF deletes PM me


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

Okay so heres the news I'm sure you didn't want to hear. I got the car up in the air, the amount of metric vbands and other stuff makes me think I should just gut my dpf also. It wouldn't be cost effective for me to do it at this point and get everything milled. Waiting for someone else to come up with a solution. Sorry guys! I might mod mine but at this point it isn't worth it to have one made for me. 

Looks like you need to drop the subframe to take it out too. I have a few other things to do before dpf delete if thats the case. Someone make one!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

I will pick up the slack, I actually already have the fittings CNCed and am just waiting on a the CNC benders now. Anyone looking for more details can contact me at [email protected]

Themachinsy, I know what you are saying on all the flanges and fittings. I started this almost a year ago to find VW has four versions of downpipes! These things also require 6 custom bungs all different sizes and custom vband flanges that are metric. Needless to say, much more work than a 1.8t or 2.0t downpipe and added costs.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> I will pick up the slack, I actually already have the fittings CNCed and am just waiting on a the CNC benders now. Anyone looking for more details can contact me at [email protected]
> 
> Themachinsy, I know what you are saying on all the flanges and fittings. I started this almost a year ago to find VW has four versions of downpipes! These things also require 6 custom bungs all different sizes and custom vband flanges that are metric. Needless to say, much more work than a 1.8t or 2.0t downpipe and added costs.


what size piping will you be using?


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

Subscribing.. This is definitly getting interesting!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

After the turbo connector the pipe is 2.5" Here is a sneak preview of what was done last month prior to sending it out to get bent up.











Bends should be in before Thanksgiving hopefully.


----------



## vw tdi guy (Sep 26, 2007)

shortysclimbin said:


> After the turbo connector the pipe is 2.5" Here is a sneak preview of what was done last month prior to sending it out to get bent up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Kyle looks good nice work. To bad you can talk about this on tdiclub :banghead::what:


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Well the good news Is I might be able too! I just sourced some replacement downpipe filters that should work for higher hp ratings in these cars. The costs are a tad high though, but no where near oem replacement costs! Once I finalize getting info from some of the local and foreign sources on engine specifications and requirements I should have a good idea if they will work out or not! So clean diesels will be for racers too!


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

hooray! MOAR HP and TQ

Something I thought would be kind of cool was replacing the stock pipe with 3in, 
keeping all the stock equipment, just cutting the stock pipe off and welding 3in back on.

I wonder if the 3.0 TDI stuff would fit and flow a little more, but still keep the visual inspectors happy.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

*DPF delete*

This is very interesting keep up the good work guys! I would go the hollowing out the DPF way and get it retuned or reflashed but thats cause im a broke guy! Can someone send me a link to show me how to reflash my ecu and get rid of the DPF software? Thanks guys.


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

> I wonder if the 3.0 TDI stuff would fit and flow a little more, but still keep the visual inspectors happy.


3.0s use urea rather than DPFs IIRC. Good try though!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

In my opinion the stock downpipe has a few major downsides to the performance one:

1) The OEM downpipe is around $7500.00 USD to replace through the dealer (that is an expensive part to hollow out)
2) The OEM downpipe has some inherent bend and flow issues that are addressed in a performance Downpipe
3) The installation time and room the OEM unit takes up is quite a bit. For performance guys looking to maybe switch turbos down the road this will cut the job time down drastically.
4) The OEM unit is extremely close to the brake control unit and takes up a lot of space in the engine bay. A performance downpipe will reduce heat into both the brake controller and the engine bay. this should help both braking and engine performance.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

:thumbup: very good info shortysclimbin. It makes sense.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

glad to finally see some progress with the MKV CR's :thumbup:


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

*Funny I was run off of ClubTDI as well.....................*

Kyle
Glad too see someone is stepping up to the plate and doing this. A few years from now even the naysayers will have bought one. I also like the idea of the performance DPF option for them, I hope it works out.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Thank you guys. As many of you may know this is a side hobby turned into a side job, so please bear with me while I work through everything. If anyone has any questions I will do my best to get back to you within reasonable time; if I have missed you in the many emails resend me a note! Personally I have a goal to be able to have these cars see 250whp and close to 60mpg with low emissions. I think we should all strive for cars that are powerful, economic, and better than 90% of the vehicles sold to us today.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

on a scale of 1-10, how difficult would it be do perform this swap? also about how long do you think it would take to put it in and take it out when needed.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

If a brake change is a 1 and a timing belt change is a 10 I would say maybe 5-6. The job takes about 8-12hrs depending on who is doing it to remove the downpipe and install this one. The aftermarket one only took me about 1hr to pull out myself after test fitting. Overall the stock unit is a pain.


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

What about a mid pipe to delete the rest of the cats? I don't believe they have any sensors or anything else to interfere as far as the ECU goes. I do realize that they are a drop in the bucket compared to the DPF back pressure wise. But at least it will be cheap and easy. 



Kyle


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> Personally I have a goal to be able to have these cars see 250whp and close to 60mpg with low emissions. I think we should all strive for cars that are powerful, economic, and better than 90% of the vehicles sold to us today.


I really dig your style and attitude towards this. I def think 250HP and maybe 350FTlbs would be just perfect in my wagen. You took the words right out of my mouth when you said about having a powerful, economic car that gets 60MPG with low emissions. 60Mpg is def feasable since my trip from Lakewood,wa to portland, OR i got 52MPG! Just keep up the good work!


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

Yeah no kidding, I think this will be a significant gain, and should serve as a gateway for other perfomance upgrades to become possible.


Kyle


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

*DPF Delete*

good stuff here


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

*Hate to be the one to ask this.......*

Whats the price shaping up to be? 

There is some rumble other places in the VW world about a delete for these cars. It might be nice to have the corner on the market for a short time until some of the big boys jump on this. I have a feeling this is going to be popular. I bet the bigger players are still a long way out.



Kyle


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

*Dpf delete resistors*

So as I sit here on 24hr duty and watching YouTube. I see a guy that has a new dodge ram with a cummins in it that spent 5 bucks for resistors to his dpf. Now I know it's not a vw it's a dodge but couldn't this be applied and done to the tdi? If the resistors tell the ecu hey there's no issues we are free flowing no soot buildup. Couldn't we remove all sensors and dpf and just put a bare downpipe in? Wouldn't it cut cost because then we wouldn't have to drill and weld holes and bungs for the sensors because they would be replaced by resistors? Hopefully this makes sense. It is 215 in the morning and my mind is surging with ideas. Would vagcom give us the resistance readings or would we have to do it the old fashioned way with a multimeter? I would like everyones input on this. I'm still new to how these vw ecu work. Blah only roughly 7 more hrs to be awake then going shooting my customized rifle. Nothing fancy.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Price wise and more info should be updated here shortly. Keep your eyes and ears open Next week is going to be a busy one making downpipes.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> Price wise and more info should be updated here shortly. Keep your eyes and ears open Next week is going to be a busy one making downpipes.


SWEETNESS!!!:laugh::laugh:


----------



## ensignba (Dec 28, 2005)

Actually a reflash shouldn't be necessary: 

There are only 3 sensor connections for the DPF, 2 of them are pressure differential sensors - in the factory locations one is mounted before the DPF and one after. When there is a certain pressure difference between them(i.e. clogged DPF), this triggers a DPF regen. In a straight pipe configuration, there will never be a pressure difference large enough to request a regen from the ECU. 

The third sensor is an EGT that tells the ECU if the exhaust is hot enough while doing a regen.

The only tell-tale sign will be in the ECU logs, if a tech ever looks at how many miles have past since a regen occurred, it may raise some questions.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

ensignba said:


> Actually a reflash shouldn't be necessary:
> 
> There are only 3 sensor connections for the DPF, 2 of them are pressure differential sensors - in the factory locations one is mounted before the DPF and one after. When there is a certain pressure difference between them(i.e. clogged DPF), this triggers a DPF regen. In a straight pipe configuration, there will never be a pressure difference large enough to request a regen from the ECU.
> 
> The third sensor is an EGT that tells the ECU if the exhaust is hot enough while doing a regen.


Thats good news about the sensors. the only down fall i would see to the EGT not being high enough for regen is that the computer will throw fuel into the "dpf" to make burning the soot possible since the EGT are too low. If i am miss thinking this please let me know. i was reading that if the EGT wasnt high enough then it would throw RAW fuel into the exhaust stroke to make the temps inside the DPF higher and better to burn off the soot. If no reflash is necessary that would be outstanding for my situation on money right now.:facepalm: I would also think that the two pressure sensors would be at two different settings since at all times the pressure at the before sensor would always be higher than that at the after. Please let me know the flaws in my thinking so i can have better understanding and unflawed knowledge of these "cancer boxes!" lol


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

dieselfreak86 said:


> Thats good news about the sensors. the only down fall i would see to the EGT not being high enough for regen *is that the computer will throw fuel into the "dpf" to make burning the soot possible since the EGT are too low*. If i am miss thinking this please let me know. i was reading that if the EGT wasnt high enough then it would throw RAW fuel into the exhaust stroke to make the temps inside the DPF higher and better to burn off the soot. If no reflash is necessary that would be outstanding for my situation on money right now.:facepalm: *I would also think that the two pressure sensors would be at two different settings since at all times the pressure at the before sensor would always be higher than that at the after.* Please let me know the flaws in my thinking so i can have better understanding and unflawed knowledge of these "cancer boxes!" lol


I think you've basically got it right. Simply tricking the ECU probably won't work too well. 

In addition to the extra fuel in the exhaust stroke for an active regen, the intake flaps and EGR throttle are also actuated to bump EGTs during passive regens. Boost is also affected to keep power levels normal during an active regen. Plus, during engine warmup, the post-injection also takes place to help get the DPF and Ox catalyst up to temp.

The sensors measure a differential in pressure, so yes, they probably will be at different pressures all the time, with the one exception being immediately after an active regen.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

Cool thanks OTTO i was wondering if i was missing something in my self teaching. :laugh: So in your opinion just installing a down pipe would most def throw codes? I was just curious about the resistors because if the resistors gave the correct feedback to the computer then it shouldn't start a regen and you could also fool it into thinking the EGTs are at the sweet spot.


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

dieselfreak86 said:


> Cool thanks OTTO i was wondering if i was missing something in my self teaching. :laugh: So in your opinion just installing a down pipe would most def throw codes? I was just curious about the resistors because if the resistors gave the correct feedback to the computer then it shouldn't start a regen and you could also fool it into thinking the EGTs are at the sweet spot.


I don't know the logic of the ECU and whether it can be tricked. It might even look for increasing/decreasing values over time.

The other thing to think about though, is that if regens are not happening, the DPF will clog up pretty rapidly.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

OttoSchultz said:


> The other thing to think about though, is that if regens are not happening, the DPF will clog up pretty rapidly.


I was talking about without the DPF. I have a 2010JSW and almost 25000 miles on it already so itll soon be out of warranty.


----------



## wagner17 (Oct 20, 2009)

im in for updates. im excited to see products for the tdi


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

this has proved to be a very interesting thread. 

any new info?


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

dieselfreak86 said:


> I was talking about without the DPF. I have a 2010JSW and almost 25000 miles on it already so itll soon be out of warranty.


That's what I figured. What I was getting at was that you'd have to find out how the ECU interprets the values it gets from the sensors on the DPF. It may expect to see changing values, so installing resistors may not work. That's why I'm thinking a tune may still be necessary.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

Oh ok otto i was making sure we were both on the same page. dont get me wrong id still love to have a tune as well but i think the prob most people are running into is deleting the DPF file in the computer not just the tune.


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

dieselfreak86 said:


> Oh ok otto i was making sure we were both on the same page. dont get me wrong id still love to have a tune as well but i think the prob most people are running into is deleting the DPF file in the computer not just the tune.


Right, but a good tune can do more than just create power. Just as most tunes for earlier generation TDIs alter the ERG cycles, a tune with a DPF delete/deactivation will probably be needed.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

JSW scheduled to be in the shop tomorrow for welding and fabrication work!  Although we ran into a small snag that may put production out a little bit. The CNC mandrel bender shop busted their bender on our downpipes! They where trying to remove an extra weld that I would need to do so that it could be a true one piece pipe and busted some expensive parts on the bender. They where telling me it should be in this week or next so that they could finish up our order. Regardless, WE are moving forward with doing some installation tests and fitments again to get the test car ready for the final fitment. This includes a full 2.5"exhaust and tune to take advantage of the new hardware. I should be posting pics up on my facebook page this week to keep you guys happy .. but please be patient, I will be welding a lot and not eating much turkey this holiday to try and get these done for the end of the holiday season!


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

Hey thats R&D, all part of the process! I can't wait to see the finished product.


----------



## wagner17 (Oct 20, 2009)

im in for this. very excited. keep us posted... ill send some of our left over turkey to you.:thumbup:


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Sorry guys for taking so long! I just ate my first bit of turkey here Monday! Last week was a long week of welding, fabrication work, and administration stuff trying to get all the parts in to finish these! Sometimes things just really do not like going as planed!  

But good news! One more item on the bench to mate up with the Downpipe... Full 2.5" mk5/6 jetta diesel exhaust 










I also made up adapters for going to the stock exhaust for those not looking to run the downpipe and want more than what the other two companies are offering (My pipe removes the last rear box and muffler vs. just the muffler)


If interested in more pics check my facebook page out. I should have more info going up on that more often because I can take a quick shot with my phone. 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Performance-Diesel-Engineering-LLC/154270104594811

I will keep everyone posted when the pipes gets in.. still waiting


----------



## wagner17 (Oct 20, 2009)

im so excited for this wanna do one on a 2011 golf. lmk im in. then this will make me get a re flash haha


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

all i can say is AWESOME!!!!:beer::beer::beer::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: one question though is why wouldnt you go with a 3in exhaust and down pipe? Also does the aero muffler do any benefit to the cr tdi? not hating just curious. keep up the great work!!!! so does $749 include tuning for the delete?


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

*Question*

I currently have the borla (Part number #140369) which is a 2.5" straight pipe from the dpf back, would I have to add an additional pipe to connect from my pipe to the vband of the downpipe?? Awesome work btw!!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

DieselFreak-

Thanks for the :beer: I needed it after all the work this past week!  To answer a few of your questions:

3" exhaust and downpipe are overkill for these smaller frame turbos, the most you will gain is louder exhaust noises and turbo spool issues from a lack of back pressure. If anyone is interested in going with a gt30V frame turbo or larger on these blocks and would like a custom setup let me know and I would be more than happy to build one. Right now though 90% of the people who own these cars are not at that point the stock and euro turbos have an outlet that is around 55mm in diameter. I have no idea where Banks got the idea that a 4.5" truck tip and exhaust is needed on these motors.. obviously you are paying more for the name and look than you are paying for true engineering work. (sorry my opinion, please take with a grain of sand).

The Aero muffler does two things: 1) It takes away some of the higher pitch exhaust noises and tones them down. 2) It allows user to meet local exhaust laws for places that say you need one regardless of if the car is quite or not. I will get some youtube videos up once things are done so you can hear it. It should be nice with the full downpipe and not too loud for most. 

The initial downpipe price does not include tuning. I or Mark can offer a few options including just DPF delete, stage 1, or stage 2. Sadly the cost of the custom CNC fittings for the turbo, and all the sensors bungs drove up the price drastically. I really was hoping to get the prices lower, because I too know that is important, but I refuse to cut quality or corners to supply people with sub par products. If you also go out and look others are selling these at well over $1200 USD right now for just the pipe right now, I think coming in at a lower price really does show you I have all you guys in mind!

Mako- Can you do me a favor to help me and others out on here who may be in the same place? Can you take a photo of the under side of your car that clearly shows where the pipe ends and connects to your factory exhaust? I will also need you to measure things up. I may need to make an add in pipe or converter for other aftermarket exhausts. If It is just slightly short I can add it to the downpipes at little cost increase, otherwise I may need another part made up... It is hard to tell without have more info. Lets see what we can come up with.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

Thanks shorty. awesome feedback. i think the price is fair. awesome job. i will be saving my pennies. Selling my Mustang gt today so thatll free up some money.


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

*Pictures*

I'll try to get some pic's tonight..


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

*PICS*

I snapped a couple last night, hope this helps!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Mako,

Is that a golf or jetta? The piece I was talking about that my exhausts is removing and that other companies do not is connected between your flapper valve and your new exhaust. The downpipes will be setup to connect to either a 2.5" pipe or someone can purchase an adapter to make it fit to the other side of the flapper valve. In your case you have a few options:

1) Get the downpipe and have the exhaust go from 2.5" down to 60mm through the flapper valve and then back up to 2.5" from about the rear seat back. This leaves you with ~4 feet of oem pipe

2) Get the downpipe and I can make up a custom piece for your car that should fix your problem. Although this will require cutting the aftermarket "exhaust" to remove the flange and get a true 2.5" exhaust system.

3) You could sell your exhaust and buy one of mine  This would make fitment easier, but would not be the most cost effective solution for you.


If you decide to go with option two let me know I will need some measurements from you.


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

*Sweeet!*

Yeah, I see what you saying..
I'll probably end up going with the second option and have the midpipe made to connect the downpipe to the rear section for a straight thru 2.5" turbo back. 

Seems to make the most sense to go that route. :beer::beer:


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

Any sound clips and dyno yet??? :laugh:


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

Ive seen the downpipe and tune pricing, and am very excited. I am interested in how much a package deal for the full exhaust, from downpipe all the way back, and the tune would total up to. That way i can see how much saving up i need to do. :laugh::laugh: Also, is there any concern that the stock intake would be a restriction after these mods? thanks.


----------



## vw tdi guy (Sep 26, 2007)

shortysclimbin said:


> DieselFreak-
> 
> The Aero muffler does two things: 1) It takes away some of the higher pitch exhaust noises and tones them down. 2) It allows user to meet local exhaust laws for places that say you need one regardless of if the car is quite or not. I will get some youtube videos up once things are done so you can hear it. It should be nice with the full downpipe and not too loud for most.


I put an aero xl on my alh with big turbo and 3 inch exhaust and its nice. Not loud at all doesnt sound much louder than a stock 1.8t.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

:banghead: Still waiting on the bends. It seams link everyone is on holiday. As soon as they get in I will be working on welding up some and getting the test car back together. Then I am in hopes we should have some sound clips for you guys and pricing info. 

As far as air modifications, I do think a few things could be done to improve things a bit. Although I do not know if these will give any proven gains from them alone. More or less they would be needed for stage 3 and 4


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

Do you have plans to dyno the car with the turbo back exhaust and let us know what kind of gains you end up with?


----------



## Mike TDI (Dec 5, 2010)

Very interested in this, keep up the good work!


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

synthetic74 said:


> Do you have plans to dyno the car with the turbo back exhaust and let us know what kind of gains you end up with?


+1 for this info also


----------



## PlaneJob (Feb 17, 2003)

great info. I'm interested to hear the MPG figures.


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

So shorty after all of this time i just noticed that these downpipes are for the 2009 models. would these also fit the 2010 CBEA? Also would the tuning be the same as the 2009s?:facepalm::facepalm:


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

I think the 2010 uses a two piece down pipe while the 2009 does not. Don't know for sure but I would think that they would be compatible.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Sorry for being distant guys! 

The initial goal of getting these out before Christmas is looking like it is going to be a no go sadly because everything that could go wrong has. I just received the pipes back from the benders and they have a mistake in the bending process that they need to fix. :banghead: Regardless I am moving forward and doing more work to try and get a good test jig. I may need 3-4 members interested in a "demo version" of the downpipe to just make sure that they fit all models. I would prefer members with mechanical ability who may be able to give me feedback. These pipes will have a few more welds in them than the final versions and may require a little more work to install. If interested Talk to me on facebook (this goes direct to my phone so I know about it). 

Also on the topic of the downpipe styles here is a picture of an early 2009 and a 2010 downpipe. VW has four versions of these and I have only been able to find two to test fit. I am confident that my jig should work for all of the cars in these model years though! This actually was part of the reason it is taking so long, these downpipes are hard to get your hands on used! 










On the Dyno info, I would love too, but that will be up to the owner to do once he gets his car back. I have taken a before run on my gtech meter to have a general baseline but a dyno would be really nice! I am expecting the downpipe and exhaust will add power range in the lower and upper end on these cars and maybe a slight 2-3whp gain on the downpipe and maybe another 5whp on the exhaust. This may not be that much of a numbers gain but it should increase the power under the curve and really open up more tuning options that do offer power (ie stage 3 tuning ). Toeball on Tdiclub or anyone with a stage 2 tune would be perfect to dyno a before and after just to be sure. As some of you may know these cars pull back fueling at high EGT temps, a stock downpipe will limit power on these engines because of the design; a full downpipe and exhaust system will completely remove that. If you stay out of the fueling after a tune and full exhaust upgrade I also would expect your fuel economy to increase over stock! 

EDIT: All set on cars for test fits now unless you have a DSG!


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

Comment sent. Im glad your trying to make it useable for all of the years. mine is the top DPF. IMO i think we will see higher gains after the DPF delete and a tune then expected. Speaking of tune. were could we get it tuned after the DPF delete? So no error codes will come? Thanks SHORTY for the great info and hard work.:biggrinsanta::beer:


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

dieselfreak86 said:


> Comment sent. Im glad your trying to make it useable for all of the years. mine is the top DPF. IMO i think we will see higher gains after the DPF delete and a tune then expected. Speaking of tune. were could we get it tuned after the DPF delete? So no error codes will come? Thanks SHORTY for the great info and hard work.:biggrinsanta::beer:


 looks like our new forum sponsor, Malone Tuning, already has tunes available with and w/o DPF


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

Cool thanks whiteTDI. Ill have to check them out i think i have contacted them before but was hesitant on their number gains. No offense Malonetuning.


----------



## scrappy 2.0FSI (Jun 16, 2008)

I look forward to seeing how this turns out! more power down low and an exhaust note that I can hear is what I want!


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

I've got a 2010 golf TDI, I'd like to do a dpf, egr and cat delete. I'm in the San Diego area if anyone know a good shop.


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

cmrnowlin said:


> I've got a 2010 golf TDI, I'd like to do a dpf, egr and cat delete. I'm in the San Diego area if anyone know a good shop.


 Does CA do an OBD test for emissions readiness?


----------



## PlaneJob (Feb 17, 2003)

OttoSchultz said:


> Does CA do an OBD test for emissions readiness?


 Don't they also do a "visual inspection"?


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

The smog laws do go into effect this year. There aren't currently any sniffer tests, but they will be performing a full visual inspection. Checking for any black smoke at idle, and under load. Also doing a full federal emissions system check. So yes you will need to put the stock setup back in for smog time. I for one fully intend on getting the straight pipe kit and just swapping them out come smog check time!!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Gents, 

Everyone will be responsible for there own cars on these. I am selling them as off road use only designed for race use on a sanctioned track. Because each track has their own laws are regulations along with states, countries etc. you are 100% responsible for making sure you meet or exceed these requirements. 

On the tunes I am working closely with Malone tuning to get these products ready for the US / Canada market. Marks power numbers may be less than others out on the market, but his numbers are car tested and supported by many individuals both USA, CANADA, and EU. Once the downpipes are in it becomes a whole new playing field  

And enough chit chat for me... back to working on getting exhaust piping in stock!


----------



## dieselfreak86 (Nov 3, 2010)

ALL i can say is SWEET!!!!!! I LOVE YOU SHORTY!!!!:facepalm: UMMMM in a manly, non sexual way.... Ill see my way to the door now...


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

AHHHH I can't wait to get these! I'm a little sad as I just bought the Unitronic tune and now these are about to come out lol.. Hmmm Maybe UNI will make a tune for these once they see they are out on the market in the US finally!!! 

Can't wait to have my car ready for "Race use only mode"!!! hehe :beer:


----------



## dub-Nation (Jan 31, 2001)

I do.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

will this downpipe be a complete bolt on? meaning, if i add flanges on to the DPF, can i realistically put it back in place should i need to get smog checked?


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

My home of record is AZ so i DGAF what Cali has to say.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

The Downpipe will have options to be setup as just a oem replacement for those keeping the stock exhaust or for those looking to increase power all around and want to have a full 2.5" turbo back system options will be available. 

And  Good news! 

We just finished up the downpipe and exhaust on the demo car. Mark is working on another tune option for us that will take advantage of all these new upgrades. Hopefully tomorrow I should have pictures and more info for everyone either here or on Facebook.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> The Downpipe will have options to be setup as just a oem replacement for those keeping the stock exhaust or for those looking to increase power all around and want to have a full 2.5" turbo back system options will be available.
> 
> And  Good news!
> 
> We just finished up the downpipe and exhaust on the demo car. Mark is working on another tune option for us that will take advantage of all these new upgrades. Hopefully tomorrow I should have pictures and more info for everyone either here or on Facebook.


i'm curious what the hp/tq/mpg difference will be between downpipe with and without 2.5" exhaust


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

Im curious of mpg gains too!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

The owner has the car back now and has a scheduled trip that should lead us to more info on fuel economy. I at this point have left it up to him on dynoing the car or not. I am really happy with the sound of the exhaust after the modifications.






I have also uploaded a video showing the smoke output and sound from in the cabin (please note the car is inside so this is slightly amplified).

I will also be taking orders on downpipes now and Jetta Exhausts. Golf and A3 models are in the works for January to complete the package.:biggrinsanta:

PS- Happy Holidays guys!


----------



## alfi66 (Dec 11, 2010)

hi shortysclimbin

i have a golf 5 1,9tdi DPF enginecode BLS.
do you make, or know of anyone that makes de-dpf downpipes for my car? i would have liked to find any for my car.
it would open up for more power and mpg, and also future turboupgrades.
im in norway, and here there is very little to choose from, and insane prices, so all my shopping is from the UK and US. im in contact with a company in the US now on a south bend stage 2 endurance clutchkit with flywheel, after recommandations here on the forum 

alfi


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

So basically, the car doesn't smoke at all even after you pulled all the cats and the dpf out? that is freaking AWESOME!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Alfi,

I may be able to help you out if your car is left hand drive like ours in the states. I will pm you my email address so you can take pictures and we can talk more.

Jerry,

This car has a high flow Cat on it and muffler to pass local laws. I have more videos online that show a small bit of smoke when starting, but that is also from a car that wasn't started in a while.


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

Ah gotcha. That's more or less what I would need for my local laws as well. Stupid CA emissions. So I take it the egr stuff is gone too?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

nope EGR is still on this one. But I am working on finishing those parts as well. When you order your downpipe that will be an option.


----------



## stibz (Apr 25, 2010)

Happy holidays!

Awesome work, I can't believe I just found this thread. With my '09 Jetta DSG well out of warranty...I'm very interested in a package deal (DPF delete + tune, with or without 2.5 exhaust).


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Some new photos of our after 100mi test where just posted up on facebook. Owner is currently on a large road trip to work out any further bugs before full release. Mark is working on a revised tune to compensate for the higher flow exhaust work. We where getting a few indication codes that should be cleared once the new tune is in. As of right now the car is running around 50-70C cooler in EGT temps throughout the RPM band than the stock downpipe!


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

It sounds a lot better than I expected it to. I'm not crazy about the sound of straight pipes on ALH TDIs.


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

I was looking at the pictures on the facebook profile. Will the full exhaust kit delete the egr flapper that is hooked up?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Yes,

But I also give you the option to order the fittings so you may keep it.


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

Personally, I'd just like an exhaust that is straight through from the turbo back. With any non essential sensors/parts being taken off and a tune that matches with it to provide the best power/fuel mileage possible...:beer:


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

Yeah but some people (like me) would like to have some semblance of a legal exhaust for where we live.

I'm sure they'll do a straight pipe exhaust since they are super easy to make. I for one however will be ordering one with the egr stuff still functioning and a catalytic converter.


----------



## AMD IS THE BEST (Mar 15, 2004)

Subscribing! Any progress for the DSG models?


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

AMD IS THE BEST said:


> Subscribing! Any progress for the DSG models?


I don't think that there's any difference in the exhaust systems of a manual vs. DSG car.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

The DSG is the same  

The goal is to be able to supply a range of individuals needs and to offer some sort of customization when you order your downpipe. This means it may take a little time between the order and the production, but It also allows you to have exactly what you want.


----------



## point665 (Nov 21, 2009)

Subscribed. 2011 TDI Golf (6 speed), interested...

I noticed in one of the videos it sounds like someone is saying "yes" in Finnish... am I just hearing things?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

That may have been Dave in the background


----------



## Victor-Whiskey (Sep 16, 2007)

still very interested


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

So any updates?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Still waiting on the owner to get back to me on the tune changes. I have test tunes ready to go just need to set up a time to do so! 

On the hardware... I have a stack done of downpipes and exhausts. AND the golf one is ready to head out and get duplicated  Sorry I haven't posted more here. I have been busy trying to finish the work and site, which doesn't seam to end...


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

So... Tuning session for tomorrow is officially setup. And some downpipes are already done and sold. AND my site is up to make things a little easier. If you guys run into any problems or questions let me know. I am a certified vendor for Malone tuning and will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

www.performance-diesel.com


----------



## AMD IS THE BEST (Mar 15, 2004)

Can't wait to see the results!

Does the exhaust eliminate the valve as well? Also, will the downpipe work with the stock cat-back or other aftermarket catback for those whom already have one installed?


----------



## Gienek (Jan 5, 2007)

Wow! 750 bucks for a downpipe?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

The downpipe is setup to be connected directly to our exhaust system for a true 2.5" turbo back system with very little restrictions. Purchasers have the option to have us add a CAT in or DPF and you can purchase an adapter to connect the downpipe to the stock flapper valve. Sadly, other vendors "cat back" exhausts don't have nearly enough pipe to them since they just delete the rear muffler and add a shinny tip. For them to be converted to a true 2.5" back custom fabrication work will need to be done or users can leave a section of the stock exhaust in the car to connect the two. 

I actually wasn't going to do an exhaust setup because of others on the market, but after finding out that they end the pipes way before the flapper valve, I decided it would be best for us to have the ability to do a true 2.5" system.


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

Just so I'm clear, for a true straight through setup, I need to order the downpipe and the exhuast correct? You don't just offer it as one large setup correct?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Raddo that is correct. At this time they are not a package deal, because of the amount of customers who want different configurations. 

gienek,

I know the price seams high, but for having to make 5 custom sensor bungs, and custom flanges along with the tooling to make these and Stainless steel prices being through the roof I cannot drop the price any more. Others on here have tried to make these, but they are not easy or cheap to build, therefore, conventional cost structures of gas downpipes cannot be used. Even some European models are going for $1000 euro without options! I have tried to place my price as low as possible since I have less overhead than competition, and still offer the same great benefits.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

themachasy said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *OttoSchultz* »_
> It's got nothing to do with being a tree hugger. Speeding or running a yellow/red light isn't a $10,000 fine like tampering/removing emissions equipment. The likelihood of getting caught may be slim, just as slim as getting caught for using dyed #2 heating oil, but it's not impossible.
> If when purchasing my '09 I had had the option of a DPF or more power for the same price, I'd have taken the HP & torque.
> 
> ...


Man i'd love to do this, but im going to wait until im out of warranty just incase something happens lol... my audi has not 1 emmisions device installed, but with the software being rewritten i have no CEL and passed emmision inspection LOL...


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

Texas HP will check your fuel!

My uncle (big red dodge) got stopped and they took a sample out of his tank, checked his tint too, Just looking for a reason for a bogus stop.


I used to roll around in vegas in my 82 rabbit, had the stock cat but it was completely hollow. still passed the sniffer test.

I think it depends on luck and your behavior and where you are. 


My 2 cents

oh and if I had the $ right now, I would do it in a heartbeat over here in Germany


----------



## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

DPF delete on the way for me! Thanks Kyle! Can't wait to get this and the tune and get you guys some results.

It'll be here saturday!


----------



## MK6GTI (Aug 1, 2009)

I have a mk6 GTI but I'm interested in the mpg gains that the TDI guys get with the DPF delete. My dad has a 2010 ram 3500 with the 6.7L Cummins diesel and I figure that the mpg gains from the DPF delete on a TDI would be similar with the Cummins.


----------



## projectracerabbit (Mar 19, 2005)

any updates on actual differences?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Sorry, I haven't checked this in a few days.. On vacation right now. I will be getting back with the customer next weekend with some more fuel economy info. Overall the winter fuel, roof box, and winter tires are not the best comparisons to his prior summer fuel economy.


----------



## dterry1982 (Nov 17, 2006)

I assure you guys, the MPG gains alone will be staggering, not to mention adding some character to your car. Kyle is an awesome dude and has worked really hard to make this a quality part. 

Kyle havent forgotten about you, just had a couple things come up ill be ordering soon. Thanks for listening to the market


----------



## germangorilla (Sep 20, 2008)

Would this resolve the issues with running Biodiesel? It would be pretty sweet to run on Bio with some added power. Best of both worlds.


----------



## wagner17 (Oct 20, 2009)

would be nice^^


----------



## mirage2521 (Feb 2, 2011)

OttoSchultz said:


> ..what do you think we get from a pump at a station?....#2 Diesel. I wouldn't want to run #2 heating oil or farm Diesel because of the sulfur contenttQUOTE]
> 
> Farm diesel, marine diesel, off road diesel, submarine diesel,ttractor diesel home heating diesel, non-taxed dyed diesel and many more that I am not listing. Are simply the EXACT same fuel you buy to go into the tank of your little Jetta. It comes right down the same pipe and at the very end of the process it splits into 2 pipes. One get dye put in it and Fed Hwy taxe taken off of it. The other gets no dye and get to pay some Hwy tax. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE in these fuels.


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

mirage2521 said:


> Farm diesel, marine diesel, off road diesel, submarine diesel,ttractor diesel home heating diesel, non-taxed dyed diesel and many more that I am not listing. Are simply the EXACT same fuel you buy to go into the tank of your little Jetta. It comes right down the same pipe and at the very end of the process it splits into 2 pipes. One get dye put in it and Fed Hwy taxe taken off of it. The other gets no dye and get to pay some Hwy tax. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE in these fuels.


Shut up, Meg.



> Numbers 1 and 2 Diesel Fuel are the primary fuel for mobile diesel engine applications. Number 1 Diesel Fuel is commonly labeled at the pump as "Premium Diesel" or with a Cetane number of 44 or 45. It is not as thick as Number 2 Diesel Fuel and for this reason is the choice for motorists during the cold winter months. The disadvantage of Number 1 Diesel Fuel is that it does not have the lubricating qualities associated with Number 2 Diesel Fuel. While Number 2 Diesel Fuel has a higher lubricating quality than Number 1 Diesel, its thickness can cause rough starting in a cold engine and rough-running in cold weather.





> #2 diesel should have a cetane rating between 40-55. If I remember correctly, nothing lower then 45 should be run in most common diesel engines, lest it's non-turbo. The higher the cetane rating the better, especially on cold days, as it will make starting an easier process. In the winter, look for the highest number you can find.


http://flashoffroad.com/Diesel/DieselFuel/about_diesel_fuel.htm


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

The DPF and tune changes will indeed allow you to run a higher Biodiesel percentage without issues with the DPF. I would stress that using biodiesel not from the pump has varied degrees of quality and may cause issues with the high pressure fuel system. Bosch will not warranty the pumps nor will VWOA over B5; although with some testing good quality grade B20 should be an improvement over non biodiesel fuels for the fuel pump wear and heat issues, I cannot fully confirm that a given number or mix is appropriate. Read into this however you want, just realize that you are your own warranty. 

PS- Two more shipped out today and one more full system on the way. Tune changes have almost been finalized with mark. (Looking at Wednesday to test another revision).


PPS- I almost forgot! golf Mk5/6 Exhausts are in and ready to go. I need one individual willing to test a setup. I will give $90.00 off the retail site price for someone doing the exhaust testing with downpipe purchase. This is only for one lucky individual, first come first serve!


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

Any updates on the dpf delete?? Can anyone report on their install, such as amount of time? Any difference in throttle response?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Toeball just installed his said it took him 3hrs on the lift. He still needs to get retuned to the newest version of stage 2. Here is an in cabin video:

[video]http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/rsrc.php/v1/yf/r/wn29KX6UvhD.swf?v=1435402184758&ev=0[/video]

later he also states "I noticed a bit over 4 mpg improvement" But it may change due to retune.


----------



## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

Any guesses on what the power gains will be with the revised tune?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

kaner05jetta said:


> Any guesses on what the power gains will be with the revised tune?



The max. HP and TQ won't increase much, if at all, due to limitations of the stock turbo + injectors. Our Stage 2 tune is already very strong, with or without DPF. However, the exhaust upgrade will lower EGT, meaning that you can sustain maximum power longer. I have hit the EGT limit during a 3rd gear 1500-4000 RPM pull on the road in the Summer, so the exhaust upgrade will help. 

Fuel economy gains and reliability (no more DPF or exhaust flaps to worry about) are bonuses.

The exhaust change will also work very well with turbo and injector upgrades.


----------



## stibz (Apr 25, 2010)

Great work!

I'm about ready to do this on my '09 Jetta TDI DSG, with 90,000 miles on it, I'm well out of warranty.....just gotta wait on my tax return. 

Are the down pipes and exhaust sets on backorder, or are they ready to ship? 

Also, I'd like to go with the full exhaust to get rid of the flapper valve and an EGR delete, but I'm not sure I'd like the extra sound. The last video seemed kind of loud for in-cabin noise, but it looks like that vid was taken inside a garage...so i'm sure it's not so loud outside. Would the high-flow "cat" muffle the sound a bit?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

stibz,


I have exhausts instock and ready to go and some downpipes prepared and ready to go as well depending on what you order. Others are prepared and awaiting customers orders to pick options. 

The last video in car was with not CAT and banks 3" straight pipe muffler delete. It also has a giant 5"5.5" megaphone on the end of the exhaust that amplifies the sounds quite a bit. The owner had to do some modifications for the exhaust to fit (re-welding) and is adding a muffler to it that will quite it down a bit. I have had other customers requests for some larger piping that I am working on for the exhaust.


----------



## Agheorghe1 (Apr 7, 2004)

wow im sold. Just hearing that turbo is music to my ears. 

hey Malone Tuning 

whats going on with turbo upgrades?


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The max. HP and TQ won't increase much, if at all, due to limitations of the stock turbo + injectors. Our Stage 2 tune is already very strong, with or without DPF. However, the exhaust upgrade will lower EGT, meaning that you can sustain maximum power longer. I have hit the EGT limit during a 3rd gear 1500-4000 RPM pull on the road in the Summer, so the exhaust upgrade will help.
> 
> Fuel economy gains and reliability (no more DPF or exhaust flaps to worry about) are bonuses.
> 
> The exhaust change will also work very well with turbo and injector upgrades.


I thought Stage 2 was for DPF delete only?  Or can Stage 2 be ran with just an exhaust only? 

Also, if i start with Stage 1 for now, much would it be to upgrade to Stage 2 down the road?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

WhiteTDI said:


> I thought Stage 2 was for DPF delete only?  Or can Stage 2 be ran with just an exhaust only?


My webpage states that DPF delete is _recommended_ for Stage 2, not required. I have clients running Stage 2 with their full emissions systems intact. The first one was tuned in March 2009 and he makes/made 300 mile round trips every weekend, over B.C. mountains. He often went WOT up steep inclines. Not a single problem has been reported to this day.

As for long DPF life with 163-170whp/184-190bhp (Stage 2 level power), I prefer to make a guarantee only based on real world tests, not just theory. It will be at minimum a few years before several of my DPF clients (not just one) can log that many miles with the aggressive tune.

Of course, with a straight pipe from Diesel Performance Engineering, any reliability concerns with DPF, exhaust flap, and other emissions equipment are eliminated. One VW dealer claimed to have replaced exhaust flaps in seven never-modified 2009+ TDIs.

Reliability is my number one priority, performance second. That said, I am confident that my Stage 2 performance cannot be exceeded by competitors without going overboard in EGT or boost. Published HP and Torque numbers will vary because different dynos have different results.



Agheorghe1 said:


> hey Malone Tuning
> 
> whats going on with turbo upgrades?


Diesel Performance Engineering is looking into this.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Thanks Mark you beat me to it.


----------



## bobt2382 (Jul 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> My webpage states that DPF delete is _recommended_ for Stage 2, not required. I have clients running Stage 2 with their full emissions systems intact. The first one was tuned in March 2009 and he makes/made 300 mile round trips every weekend, over B.C. mountains. He often went WOT up steep inclines. Not a single problem has been reported to this day.
> 
> As for long DPF life with 163-170whp/184-190bhp (Stage 2 level power), I prefer to make a guarantee only based on real world tests, not just theory. It will be at minimum a few years before several of my DPF clients (not just one) can log that many miles with the aggressive tune.
> 
> ...


Mark and Shorty,

I've watching this thread for awhile. Great work and congrats on your product successes so far! Nice to see folks working on performance upgrades for CR TDIs. :beer: Keep up the great work.

Since I live in CARB state CA and only have 12K on 2010 I'll have to wait a little on trying out these products.  

Mark, any chance that you'll pick up athorized Malone tuners in SOCAL?

Bob


----------



## FalmouthMK5 (Jun 26, 2008)

Sorry, I'm new do diesel. I have a 2011 TDI, and absolutely want to delete the DPF, etc. If I pull everything out, what issues am I going to run into? Issues with the flapper?

I could absolutely care less about a CEL, however I dont want other running issues.


----------



## stibz (Apr 25, 2010)

That's good news! I think i'll be fine with the noise level then with just the downpipe and 2.5" exhaust. Feel free to post more vids of sound levels if possible. 

As for the tune...what's the turnaround time on the ECU? And who is it done through; I see Malone Tuning does the work, but it's also offered on your site as well. Just want to make sure who's doing the tune and where the ECU is getting shipped. (my concern is downtime for the car). Thanks!




shortysclimbin said:


> stibz,
> 
> 
> I have exhausts instock and ready to go and some downpipes prepared and ready to go as well depending on what you order. Others are prepared and awaiting customers orders to pick options.
> ...


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Everyone, thanks to it being spring I am offering a $50.00 coupon for those purchasing downpipe, exhaust and tune though my site. The code is located on my facebook account. 

Falmouth, 

Check out this site for some more info on stock DPF. http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/DPF-Adblue-FAQ-VW-Audi.htm The info is a good general guide for oem. The stock system needs the hardware to not be in limp mode. Hardware and software in these cars are a package system that require calibration and tuning that works together. 

Stibz,

I or Mark can load a tune on your ecu depending on your location and time frame we will work with you to get the fastest turn around we can. I am a certified tune dealer for Mark's tunes.


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

Hey Shorty, 
Do you have recommendation concerning the egr delete?? I am wondering what are the benefits of deleting the egr compared to keeping it. In my eyes, if I'm getting rid of the dpf, might as well knock out the egr if there are added benefits?

Thanks again for your help!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Benifits:
1) Guys in EU with high mileage are having issues with the flapper valve in the intake getting clogged with soot and oil braking the gears in the unit which costs around $300 USD for the part. No more issues with EGR delete and CCV.
2) More room for bigger turbo
3) less weight

Downsides:
1) emissions are much higher
2) Fuel economy is lower
3) Not street legal

I would stress that this is a mod that is really designed for track use only and only reduces components and maintenance more than anything.


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

*I am surprised that an EGR delete would reduce fuel economy I would expect the opposite......*

Can we start a new thread for people to start posting their performance gains and thoughts about this kit? I am so interested to hear what guys will have to say about this down pipe kit.


----------



## saucer (Nov 1, 2007)

subscribed.

I've been spending too much time on [a certain TDI site with stricter guidelines] and I am _thrilled_ to finally see someone tackling the crippling DPF :thumbup:


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

4running said:


> Can we start a new thread for people to start posting their performance gains and thoughts about this kit? I am so interested to hear what guys will have to say about this down pipe kit.


Yeah, I'm currently just waiting to see what real life numbers in gains will be before I get on board with this. I LOVE the concept and hear great things about the EU models doing this. But I hear different reports on numbers gained and such which makes me wonder if it is worth it currently or just holding off until my system goes out..


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

I am working on getting a dyno setup and testing for another potential power adding product here this month.  Those that have driven the car really enjoy it and can't stop talking about it. 

It does stink I can't fully promote everything on _ _ _ Club I am hoping you guys can help me out and spread the word to those interested in finally getting the stage 2 tunes. 

PS- I am in need of a crashed CR for more products.. Come across one please let me know!


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

saucer said:


> subscribed.
> 
> I've been spending too much time on [a certain TDI site with stricter guidelines] and I am _thrilled_ to finally see someone tackling the crippling DPF :thumbup:



Not trying to hijack this thread or get off of topic BUT.......
I have been on that forum for years, and they seem to be getting much worse all the time. I just dont need the hassle. I want to share and gather information. I donn't need a mommy and a daddy (I have kids of my own for crying out loud!), and I certinly don't need a mommy and a daddy on an automotive message board. Lets be freaking honest...................


----------



## FalmouthMK5 (Jun 26, 2008)

Is anyone running a DPF delete without a tune?


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

Probably not the best way to do it. At the VERY least you would have a CEL on all the time. I think that is discussed earlier in this thread. The tune is probably the least expensive part of this whole thing. If you didn't want to do a stage 1 or 2 at the same time, it looks like you can do a dpf delete only tune for alot less.


----------



## FalmouthMK5 (Jun 26, 2008)

I have a stage 1 REVO tune, but obviously they do not write that file for the dpf delete.

I could care less about a CEL, but do not want running issues. So I was hoping someone on here was running either sucessfully running this setup, or even running a dpf delete with no tune at all.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

falmouth,

you will need the tune. If you want to test the theory go loop your DP sensor on itself on the right side of your engine bay so it reads 0 pressure differential. The oem system will not like it and will throw you into limp mode eventually.


----------



## Hank101 (May 3, 2009)

FalmouthMK5, 

I too have a Revo tune, and have verified that we would need to have the Revo rep retune our ECU back to stock prior to having any of the DPF delete tunes installed (basic no-regen, or performance improved + no-regen), followed by the DPF-delete hardware installation. Both need to occur concurrently, as operation of the vehicle, one without the other, will create issues.

I anxiously await performance details for DPF deletes.


----------



## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

Hank101 said:


> FalmouthMK5,
> 
> I too have a Revo tune, and have verified that we would need to have the Revo rep retune our ECU back to stock prior to having any of the DPF delete tunes installed (basic no-regen, or performance improved + no-regen), followed by the DPF-delete hardware installation. Both need to occur concurrently, as operation of the vehicle, one without the other, will create issues.
> 
> I anxiously await performance details for DPF deletes.


Jeez, that's not too convenient. I have a revo tune also and my revo dealer is like an hour and a half away. But I guess it had to do with custom-fine tuning each individual ECM?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Sadly it is how the market goes these days. The cars ecu system is much more intertwined with the hardware. 

I am working on getting things worked out for a dyno here soon. Many guys have offered, but none on the plate yet have results.


----------



## Hank101 (May 3, 2009)

"Jeez, that's not too convenient. I have a revo tune also and my revo dealer is like an hour and a half away. But I guess it had to do with custom-fine tuning each individual ECM?"

To the best of my knowledge, it has something to do with Revo read/write protecting proprietary portions of their ECU performance programming. But I admit to not being an expert on this subject, an could be wrong.


----------



## PDI (Sep 24, 2008)

I am not starting anything just saying...I think that APR Revo use very similar read/write protection. I know this was and issue with ME 9, 7 ecu types but could still be done. My partner was able to smash over the APR in the MED17 with no problem. I don't think it had to be put back to stock. I can check and see as I don't know all the details but not sure! CMD is the tool of choice.


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

Awaiting my DP, very excited


----------



## rtking (Jan 7, 2011)

Saw a 2009 TDI with 118K and a DPF failure. Was going to buy a TDI until I heard the replacement costs and frequency. ($4500 for DPF, $1500 for new turbo, every 120K miles per dealer). Finding this thread gives me much more relief and renewed interest in buying a TDI and trading my hybrid. Suscribed!


----------



## 4running (Sep 4, 2008)

*Not to get off of topic but..............*

I wouldn't be worried about a DPF failure. Id be worried about the 6k dollar HPFP failures, LOL!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Just talked to a guy who had an intercooler pipe pop off and the dpf foul. Dealer offered him to replace it for a little over $4,000 plus 3 hrs labor. Should be a busy weekend with tuning for Mark .


----------



## Ryephile (Jun 2, 2006)

Kyle: Your parts look great and the prices are appropriate. :thumbup: Your full exhaust is on my shopping list, but I'm trying to figure out which options will best fit my goals. 



mako159 said:


> Hey Shorty,
> Do you have recommendation concerning the egr delete?? I am wondering what are the benefits of deleting the egr compared to keeping it. In my eyes, if I'm getting rid of the dpf, might as well knock out the egr if there are added benefits?
> 
> Thanks again for your help!


 Bump. I'm curious to hear this answer too, being a Diesel noob and not sure how the EGR really impacts the system from the cleanliness, power, and efficiency perspective. 


Is an EGR-delete a good thing for longevity, power, and fuel economy?

Thanks,
Ryan


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

This is what Kyle posted earlier about EGR delete: 



shortysclimbin said:


> Benifits:
> 1) Guys in EU with high mileage are having issues with the flapper valve in the intake getting clogged with soot and oil braking the gears in the unit which costs around $300 USD for the part. No more issues with EGR delete and CCV.
> 2) More room for bigger turbo
> 3) less weight
> ...


----------



## Ryephile (Jun 2, 2006)

Thanks for the quote post.

Not to steer too far off topic but I wonder why removing the EGR reduces fuel economy? I suppose if it does that I'll keep it on my car and deal with the occasional cleaning, as I don't want to hurt the fuel economy aspect of performance.

Thanks again for the hand holding. eace:


----------



## OttoSchultz (Apr 16, 2004)

shortysclimbin said:


> Benifits:
> 1) Guys in EU with high mileage are having issues with the flapper valve in the intake getting clogged with soot and oil braking the gears in the unit which costs around $300 USD for the part. No more issues with EGR delete and CCV.
> 2) More room for bigger turbo
> 3) less weight
> ...


 Am I misreading this? MPGs are _lower_ with a DPF delete & tune? 




> FalmouthMK5 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a stage 1 REVO tune, but obviously they do not write that file for the dpf delete.
> ...


 The various tuners are not giving their competitors their tunes. If you have a REVO 1 tune and want to get another tune, it seems logical that they wouldn't be able to tune over another company's tune. 



rtking said:


> Saw a 2009 TDI with 118K and a DPF failure. Was going to buy a TDI until I heard the replacement costs and frequency. ($4500 for DPF, $1500 for new turbo, every 120K miles per dealer). Finding this thread gives me much more relief and renewed interest in buying a TDI and trading my hybrid. Suscribed!


 A DPF is not $4500. It's _only_ as $2700 part at Impex. 

That said, there are lot's of DPF equipped VWs on the road now. Surely there will be a less expensive aftermarket source available soon. Just think back to the early days of the ALH when VNT15s and injection pumps were only available from the dealer. After a few years there were other sources. 



shortysclimbin said:


> Just talked to a guy who had an intercooler pipe pop off and the dpf foul. Dealer offered him to replace it for a little over $4,000 plus 3 hrs labor. Should be a busy weekend with tuning for Mark .


 I had an intercooler pipe pop off a few weeks ago. I called VW Roadside just to be safe. They reinstalled the hose. A few minutes after I picked up the car the DPF light came on. I drove it for the 30 minutes at ~2000 RPM like the OM says. The light went off.


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

OttoSchultz said:


> Am I misreading this? MPGs are _lower_ with a DPF delete & tune?


 No an EGR delete will lower mileage. We still don't have any kind of results for mileage for the dpf delete and tune


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

Ryephile said:


> Not to steer too far off topic but I wonder why removing the EGR reduces fuel economy? I suppose if it does that I'll keep it on my car and deal with the occasional cleaning, as I don't want to hurt the fuel economy aspect of performance.


 I believe the simplified version of the answer is that you are no longer recirculating (Exhaust Gas Recirculation "EGR") the exhaust, so any fuel that is not burnt the first time around will just go out the exhaust, instead of a portion of it being recirc'd by the EGR system. Thus, your exhaust will also be "dirtier" than before, and slightly reduced fuel economy.


----------



## jimmyv65 (Oct 12, 2006)

4running said:


> Not trying to hijack this thread or get off of topic BUT.......
> I have been on that forum for years, and they seem to be getting much worse all the time. I just dont need the hassle. I want to share and gather information. I donn't need a mommy and a daddy (I have kids of my own for crying out loud!), and I certinly don't need a mommy and a daddy on an automotive message board. Lets be freaking honest...................


 
+1 on this! 

I really don't like the mommy/daddy feel of the other site. I may never do a DPF delete, but like to read and talk about the issues, concerns and possibilities. I am liking the intelligence of this thread and the comments. There are some great data points and I've learned from reading it. On the other site, all I learned was I was a bad person and most of the finger waggers don't know a dpf from a egr. :banghead:


----------



## Ryephile (Jun 2, 2006)

1972SS454 said:


> I believe the simplified version of the answer is that you are no longer recirculating (Exhaust Gas Recirculation "EGR") the exhaust, so any fuel that is not burnt the first time around will just go out the exhaust, instead of a portion of it being recirc'd by the EGR system. Thus, your exhaust will also be "dirtier" than before, and slightly reduced fuel economy.


 That makes sense. I was thinking in gasoline, where EGR offers nothing but reduced emissions via warmer IAT and less O2 to burn. However, in Diesel, since there's no Stoich to worry about, unburnt fuel from the "first time around" can be recycled and more can be burnt. Makes sense now. Thanks. :thumbup:


----------



## automobiliben (Feb 19, 2010)

Shorty, 

Have you put any of these parts on a A3 TDI yet? I am looking to go Stage 2, just wanted to see if some of your prodcuts are also available for it... 

Thanks


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

automobiliben said:


> Shorty,
> 
> Have you put any of these parts on a A3 TDI yet? I am looking to go Stage 2, just wanted to see if some of your prodcuts are also available for it...
> 
> Thanks


 I'm second in line as soon as another fellow A3 owner takes the first plunge


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

I have not yet had an A3 in the shop to verify. I am 99% positive the downpipe will fit, but I have yet to get an exhaust fitted up for that car. If one of you is close please email me at [email protected] so we can work out getting you guys sorted out. 

PS- Just finished another two Downpipe and exhaust installs this weekend. Anyone else interested in the sale combo before it runs out?


----------



## turbocharged798 (Apr 13, 2010)

Just wondering what kind of MPGs are people seeing with no DPF and regen cycles?


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

Too early to report comprehensive differences, but here is what I have so far. 

A 30 minute trip to one of my jobs, mostly interstate... Before downpipe, exhaust, and tune best MPG I had seen was 41 or 42. First trip with new configuration was 46.1. Same crappy cold weather. 

A slightly shorter 20 minute trip to my other job from the same place, mostly interstate... Before, the best I had seen was like 39 or 40. I am getting 42 now. 

Overall average MPG's on the computer have been at 37.5 since the new config (mixed interstate and city--includes getting on the throttle from time to time) whereas before it was 35.3


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

*Couple ?????*



synthetic74 said:


> Too early to report comprehensive differences, but here is what I have so far.
> 
> A 30 minute trip to one of my jobs, mostly interstate... Before downpipe, exhaust, and tune best MPG I had seen was 41 or 42. First trip with new configuration was 46.1. Same crappy cold weather.
> 
> ...


 
Could you talk a little more about the sound and performance? Which tune did you go with? Any tranny issues is your running a DSG? How about the sound? More turbo noise? Deeper exhaust note? Any Throttle response change? 

Sorry to ask so many question but I am really interested to know more before I make the call... 
Thanks for your help!


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

Certainly not a problem... 

This is with the stage 2 tune adapted for the DPF delete. I opted to keep the cat and keep the EGR. DPF is gone, flapper is gone. I have a 6mt, not a DSG. 

Sound: I can hear the turbo in low RPMs(


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Thanks Jason for the info and your reviews :beer: 

I posted up the dyno graphs in my thread for these. Check them out when you guys get a chance!


----------



## dterry1982 (Nov 17, 2006)

Shorty: 

Why did the ABs and ESP fuse have an effect on the dyno pulls in the other thread? 

What is the combo special did i miss something I may just be interested in that.


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

*Stage 2 Complete (almost)*

On a recent business trip up to Vermont I could not pass up that where I was going was in the same town as Performace Diesel Engineering. So after a few emails and phone calls I made the plunge. Went for the stage 2 with the delete. Kyle made the process as smooth as possible. I'm going to wait another week to use up a second tank before commenting on any changes to MPG but the sound is a bit more raspy, lower but not really louder. Rev's smoother, for the first time it smells a bit like a diesel but when I noticed it it was cold. Going to check on this next time I get home from my 36 mile commute. Since it's still cold I'm not sure if I've seen any smoke or just normal exhaust puffs. For now I have the stock exhaust until I can save up/pay off the cc. Did I mention the extra power!


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Dterry, 

The ABS controller limits fuel when it thinks their is a skid or sliding condition. In our case the rear wheels do not spin on the dyno but the fronts get up over 100mph. Because of this on the dyno you will get fuel cuts and issues. The best bay I have found to remove this thus far is removing the fuses in the engine bay and drivers side panel. 


Peter, 

Thank you for the review and the info! So others know you have the standard Performance Downpipe without cat or high flow DPF and the flange adapter to oem exhaust.


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

I've been researching this for a good week now and look forward to seeing longterm gains from users. Il be purchasing a golf tdi with dsg and hope to get some more power and fuel economy out of this car.

Is shorty and malones tune the same then? Being in CA was trying to find the closer for turnaround time.


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

Shorty (Kyle of Performance Diesel, LLC) is an authorized tune reseller for Malone Tuning. I have had very nice results with mine so far, but it's too soon for "long term" reports.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

strykeback,

Mark and I have worked out in the past for individuals in the west coast to send the ecu directly to him to reduce your downtime. Remember if tune, downpipe and exhaust is purchased through me I also offer a discount that is a savings that is equal to a free upgrade from stage 1 tuning to stage 2 tuning.


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

"I also offer a discount that gives you a discount..."

Sorry, but I have just got to pick on your for that one. You make it too easy for us to tell you are from Vermont. :laugh:


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

lol Thanks Jason. I sometimes am doing too many things at once..:banghead: 

BTW just finished up something that was going to go on a buddies car, but since he is now using a true performance downpipe I posted it up on ebay.


----------



## baggedbox707 (Sep 1, 2008)

projectracerabbit said:


> WTH is this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





OttoSchultz said:


> Pics 1 & 4 are the downstream EGR flapper valve. You are correct about 2 & 3. They are the cats. The slanted part in the downpipe is probably the bottom end of the DPF. They are all required parts of the emissions system.
> 
> The muffler is not technically an emissions item, so it can be removed/replaced. But don't waste your money replacing it because you won't get much more sound. Read through the Borla thread. They're selling a straight pipe to run from the second cat back, and it only makes a slightly noticable difference at WOT. Find an exhaust shop that can make a custom 2nd cat back system and you'll save some money.


FYI There are three valves included in the EGR system, a HP EGR recirc, LP EGR Recirc, and then this valve that is pictured is actually the Exhaust Throttle Valve (ETV) which is actually NOT a required component of the emissions system. The only required components are the LP EGR Recirc valve, DPF Filter, NOX catalyst, and H2S Catalyst. The ETV's only purpose is to close off the exhaust gas stream to create a higher pressure from the turbo exhaust through the Nox cat in order to aide in LP EGR circulation. 

With VCDS you can see what the ECM is reading and therefore it can be easy enough to trick the ECM without a tune, there are just more sensors than the LH that would have to be tapped into and a greater understanding of how the entire EGR system works is required. FYI VW Roseville and Dirrito Brothers here says that an aftermarket ECM flash voids the warranty, whereas EFIE style mods are a grey area. I'll see if I can sit down sometime and actually show you some vcds screen shots of what I'm talking about.

Shorty, fantastic work on the downpipe. It just sucks that us CA drivers need a stealth hollowed out DPF case in order to pass the visual insection.


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

Its that fight over voiding of warranty that worries me of doing this to a brand new one.

Also are most that are doing this driving manuals? Mark mentioned that the dsg might need to be reflashed as well....maybe il learn to drive stick afterall.


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

strykeback said:


> Its that fight over voiding of warranty that worries me of doing this to a brand new one.
> 
> Also are most that are doing this driving manuals? Mark mentioned that the dsg might need to be reflashed as well....maybe il learn to drive stick afterall.


+1 for the same thoughts.


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

Mine's a 6MT. I think that's the only way to drive these cars.


----------



## baggedbox707 (Sep 1, 2008)

I have the DSG, mainly because it's the wifes car :beer: 

As for voiding the warranty, you just need to be thoughtful and smart about what exactly it is you are doing to the vehicle. You wont be hurting the engine by removing the EGR system from service. 

Instead of a flash tune, it'd be nice to have a push button to disable/enable for the
EGR system so if you wanted to swap out the dpf with something like shorty's downpipe and then re-install the dpf for smog puposes you could without going through the hassle of a re-tune...


----------



## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

Hoping to take a day trip to get this all done sometime before summer starts. Performance gains are definitely a plus, but as of two weeks ago I'm strictly trying to be economical. So far my best tank almost 600 mixed miles per tank. 

Hopefully the MPG gains are also a nice part of this mod 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

baggedbox707 said:


> I have the DSG, mainly because it's the wifes car :beer:
> 
> As for voiding the warranty, you just need to be thoughtful and smart about what exactly it is you are doing to the vehicle. You wont be hurting the engine by removing the EGR system from service.
> 
> ...


Id vote for a mode selection especially being in california as well.

Also I've contemplated the manual vs dsg and this would be my first manual and hear great things about the gti's clutch. Is the gearbox and clutch setup the same in golf tdi as the gti?


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

I do believe mode selection is still out of the equation for the common rail ECU's since they still require a bench flash...


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

PM'd!


----------



## baggedbox707 (Sep 1, 2008)

strykeback said:


> Id vote for a mode selection especially being in california as well.





RaddoDubbs said:


> I do believe mode selection is still out of the equation for the common rail ECU's since they still require a bench flash...


Who knows, maybe something like the flashzilla will work someday soon. Itd be totally worth it to have your stock tune, mileage tune and a power tune.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Gents,

The likely hood of the flashzilla working on these cars may be quite slim. The protection software in these ecus is quite tough . If any easier method comes around no doubt Mark and I will offer it, but at this time no such luck. The same is true for a "switch" no switchable tuning is setup on these ecus as of yet and it may never be an option. 

Kaner- We can schedule you. Email me and we can work something out.


----------



## skeets (Apr 13, 2011)

this thread is comical and i only skimmed some pages.. Not be be a ass EGR is horrible I own a 07 chevy duramax diesel first modes i did was block the egr and install a pipe from the mouth of the exhaust with no cat or muffler (called turbo down pipe) even then my truck does not throw a ton of smoke while driving because my truck runs clean goo working clean trucks dont smoke. This also increased my turbo spool time and gives me more hp and torc, 

egr for my truck and im sures its all the same it resends the exhaust back through your manifold to make sure all fuel is burned, in 15k of miles there has been people that have taken there manifolds off and found over a 1.5 inches of sutt caked in there mainifolds and it is hard to remove the sutt, also blocking this increases engine life. 

as far as the bs dpf crap its there to help the green pace and al gore feel good. as far as emission laws lol there are people in every state that remove parts like these and still pass inspections.

if al gore was around when there was horse and buggies he would of taxed the horses for pooping too much!


my 2 cents


----------



## CustomSpooling (Apr 17, 2011)

Just to add my 2cents here:

I have successfully completed software DPF deletes / EGR cycle minimizing on all VAG motors. 

After reading parts of this thread I am a little concerned about something. (maybe I have picked it up wrong) 
Has anybody deleted EGR and keep DPF in place? If yes then this is very bad practice and should be rectified immediately.

As per MPG with a DPF delete, the results are very noticeable. Like everything else, results will vary but MPG gains are certain.


----------



## CustomSpooling (Apr 17, 2011)

shortysclimbin said:


> Gents,
> 
> The likely hood of the flashzilla working on these cars may be quite slim. The protection software in these ecus is quite tough .


This is true, the likely hood of any OBD tool becoming available for edc17 anit tuning SW is very slim because the flashing tool makes suck in too much money from selling their tricore adpaters!! something like over 1000 dollars a pop:what:


----------



## baggedbox707 (Sep 1, 2008)

CustomSpooling said:


> Just to add my 2cents here:
> 
> I have successfully completed software DPF deletes / EGR cycle minimizing on all VAG motors.
> 
> ...


So all you used was your VAGcom to disable the EGR/DPF Cycle? Do you have screen shots of what you did then?


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

Got 53.5mpg with my dpf delete yesterday.


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

cmrnowlin said:


> Got 53.5mpg with my dpf delete yesterday.


What exhaust and tune setup do you have other than the dpf delete?


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

cmrnowlin said:


> Got 53.5mpg with my dpf delete yesterday.


Hey nowlin what did you choose for your tune or what was the entire mod your seeing 53mpgs with and do you get a lot of black smoke when stomping on the.gas?


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

*Stage 2 MPG*

While I'm enjoying the extra power my MPG's are the same or maybe even down slightly. The weather has more affect than anything other than keeping it floored all the time. My last five fill-ups were 48.4, 45.3, 42.2, 45.0, and 46.2. Now for the weird part, 46.2 was with snow tires. 45.0 was with the snows off and included the trip up to Vermont. 42.2 was right after the tune/dpf delete and included the trip back from Vermont. Next two were on my normal route and I was trying for best MPG. I had a 3 mpg jump as the temps went up. My best tank was good for 715 miles and was 51.1 MPG. I'm not seeing any black smoke but the rear panel just above the exhaust is a little black. The car feels much better and rev's much quicker/smoother.


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

cmrnowlin said:


> Got 53.5mpg with my dpf delete yesterday.


More details please. Highway mpg? What tune? Mods?


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

I'm Straight pipe all the way back. i do get some black smoke when I'm driving like an a$$. My user name on other sites is SptnBlk. Muhahahaha. I have Malone's Stage 1, I'm waiting for Mark to finish his DSG tuning software before I push any more power. Tomorrow i'll be installing my H+R sport lowering springs, then next week my propane injection is going in.....Future mods: 4motion, up-size my rims, LED Tails, and i'd like to be the first to 300hp with this beast. but thats just me dreaming.


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

So your getting 53 mpg driving like an a$$ or is that less smokey conservative driving. Lol

Im curious if your 0 to 60 time has improved much over the stock 8.7. Did you find a shop in the SD area to do the work for you or did you do it yourself?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Glad to hear the feedback and news guys keep it up!


----------



## surferman802003 (Jun 18, 2010)

would love to get my hands on a full set up. However wife is freaking over the price. And another question, Im in Germany do you guys ship out here. I will probably have the money in a few months


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

strykeback said:


> So your getting 53 mpg driving like an a$$ or is that less smokey conservative driving. Lol
> 
> Im curious if your 0 to 60 time has improved much over the stock 8.7. Did you find a shop in the SD area to do the work for you or did you do it yourself?



lol that was driving 60mph for about an hour. then i went to 85 through some mountains. I've never gotten bellow 33mpg on the freeway, 35 sense the mods. there really isn't much smoke. I did all the work myself, the shop here on base is pretty well equipped. In a week and a half Ill be going out to the high desert here in Cali with some friends to get our stats. I have found 1 problem with my tune though, I had Mark up the speed limiter to 180mph(not that ill get to that quite yet):screwy: but as soon as i hit 110, my car throws a flashing system error code. I'll make sure to get you guys updates as i get them.

I'll actuall be able to go 200mph in my buddies modded 300zx twin turbo. I'm pretty excited.


----------



## baggedbox707 (Sep 1, 2008)

pcporemba said:


> While I'm enjoying the extra power my MPG's are the same or maybe even down slightly. The weather has more affect than anything other than keeping it floored all the time. My last five fill-ups were 48.4, 45.3, 42.2, 45.0, and 46.2. Now for the weird part, 46.2 was with snow tires. 45.0 was with the snows off and included the trip up to Vermont. 42.2 was right after the tune/dpf delete and included the trip back from Vermont. Next two were on my normal route and I was trying for best MPG. I had a 3 mpg jump as the temps went up. My best tank was good for 715 miles and was 51.1 MPG. I'm not seeing any black smoke but the rear panel just above the exhaust is a little black. The car feels much better and rev's much quicker/smoother.


You should probably check and make sure your HP and LP egr system is turned off as well if all you have is the dpf delete. 

Did you leave the exhaust throttling valve, and two cats installed?


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

33 to 35mpg? Seems a bit low when some guys with no mods have gotten 42 cruising at 80 for an hour...


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

strykeback said:


> 33 to 35mpg? Seems a bit low when some guys with no mods have gotten 42 cruising at 80 for an hour...


I was cruising about 75-80mph and got 46mpg for 3 hours straight


----------



## skeets (Apr 13, 2011)

Where can I buy these and can there be a sticky maybe made with this info of where good tunes for doing this are at also,

Like i said before i seem to have a hard time finding stuff I have a duramax diesel truck and find everything in a sec i need with 10 different sites. so i feel lost


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

*Stage 2 MPG with DPF delete*



baggedbox707 said:


> You should probably check and make sure your HP and LP egr system is turned off as well if all you have is the dpf delete.
> 
> Did you leave the exhaust throttling valve, and two cats installed?


Not sure about the exhaust throttling valve but the other two are gone. Performance Diesel did the work so I'll have to ask Kyle about the valve. Still running the stock exhaust.


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

skeets said:


> Where can I buy these and can there be a sticky maybe made with this info of where good tunes for doing this are at also,
> 
> Like i said before i seem to have a hard time finding stuff I have a duramax diesel truck and find everything in a sec i need with 10 different sites. so i feel lost


Kyle (userid shortysclimbin) has a website with all the goodies. You can purchase Malone Tuning ECU tunes thru him also.

Here is the site: http://www.performance-diesel.com/


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

strykeback said:


> 33 to 35mpg? Seems a bit low when some guys with no mods have gotten 42 cruising at 80 for an hour...





O2VW1.8T said:


> I was cruising about 75-80mph and got 46mpg for 3 hours straight



Yeah, but thats also dealing with Californian drivers and some mountains.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

cmrnowlin said:


> Yeah, but thats also dealing with Californian drivers and some mountains.


mine was mostly straight road maybe thats why.


----------



## skeets (Apr 13, 2011)

thanks for the info i tried to get on the site the other may have been just over loaded.


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

I dont get how people are getting such high numbers. I was getting 35ish with mixed driving before the mods and now I get 38-39 with mixed driving. That's the improvement I have seen with the stage 2 tune, AFe intake, full exhaust, and DPF delete.


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

synthetic74 said:


> I dont get how people are getting such high numbers. I was getting 35ish with mixed driving before the mods and now I get 38-39 with mixed driving. That's the improvement I have seen with the stage 2 tune, AFe intake, full exhaust, and DPF delete.


Quit riding the torque so hard lol..my usual city + hwy is about 38ish.. but if I am trying to conserve that number can be as high 42.. I'd like to see if anyone does a max distance run at 55mph and see what they can get for numbers... I manged approx 55mpg if I drove 55 with cc and windows up no ac.. def wanna see what a dpf would do for that...


----------



## FalmouthMK5 (Jun 26, 2008)

baggedbox707 said:


> Who knows, maybe something like the flashzilla will work someday soon. Itd be totally worth it to have your stock tune, mileage tune and a power tune.


Its just a matter of time. This is essentially what REVO is doing with their 2011 tunes. Once the ECU is unlocked you can change which file you are running. Its only the first "unlocking" thats a pain in the ass.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

[video=facebook;1435402184758]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1435402184758[/video]

This is pre-retune.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

synthetic74 said:


> I dont get how people are getting such high numbers. I was getting 35ish with mixed driving before the mods and now I get 38-39 with mixed driving. That's the improvement I have seen with the stage 2 tune, AFe intake, full exhaust, and DPF delete.


Might have a lead foot, I drive like a grandma when in my JSW, in my audi i could careless what mileage it gets and dont really pay attention how i drive it. I think im at 460 miles and have a 1/4 left of fuel says 200 till empty. So probably 640 this tank on a stock JSW with 17's


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Jeez guys I have a hard time getting more then 30mpgs around town on my stock 10'


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

Subaruski1 said:


> Jeez guys I have a hard time getting more then 30mpgs around town on my stock 10'



Do you race from streetlight to streetlight or do you just live in a cold climate?


----------



## skeets (Apr 13, 2011)

they system that performance-diesel sells is this a turbo back it looks the same< like i said before I come from my duramax my exhaust is a turbo back no cat barley a muffler


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

Wow those are really low numbers. Was hoping to get a lot better then that with the price of diesel. 

My uncle has a 10 jetta tdi and gets 45 mpg on his 100 mile daily commute. The guys only getting 30 must be doing a lot of in city driving.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

with my stock 2010 jetta sedan (with 60K miles), i've gotten low 50's mpg for a full tank according to Fuelly quite a few times on mostly highway driving. in fact on my very last fill up, i actually set a personal record averaging 53.4mpg for the last tank, basically not needing a fill up on my roundtrip drive from LA to Sacramento and back! also, this was done without the usual Diesel Kleen additive i use, just plain simple Chevron diesel which i've been noticing helps yield 2-3 higher mpgs than cheaper, crappier fuel.


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

cmrnowlin said:


> Do you race from streetlight to streetlight or do you just live in a cold climate?


I live in Vegas haha. 90% of my driving is off the highway though. I drive fairly conservatively.


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

I guess some of the last posts kinda answer my questions...

I am not "riding the torque, I drive very conservative and try to coast when I can downhill on the highway to make the mileage better. But, here are the factors I see hurting my mileage.

1) I have the 18" wheels since its the Cup Edition
2) I live in a cold, hilly climate (upstate NY)
3) I drive a lot of short trips
4) I cruise at 65-75 on the hwy

So, that 38-39 is basically a 50/50 mix of hwy and city. I am going 65 in 55 and 75 in 65mph zones. I pretty much use the cruise to do that. This weekend I made a 1.5 hour trip through the Berkshires and on the way there it was horribly rainy and people were driving like morons. My mileage was only in the low 30's. On the way back it was 44.5 with my driving mostly at 75 on cruise. So, there you have it. I guess if I got lighter 17's and drove 55 when in only warm weather, I'd see 55.


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

Numbers look good. I guess now that even diesel is 10 cents more then premium in california I have to decide whether the fun and speed of the gti outweights the economy of the slower tdi for about same price of fuel.


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

I did a little experiment today and deviated from my normal driving pattern. On my trip from home to my girlfriend's last night I drove my 64mph (55mph zones) sections in 6th gear instead of 5th. I previously though I was doing the right thing driving in the peak efficiency RPM, but perhaps I was wrong. And in the 65mph zones instead of going 74mph, I kept it at around 69mph. My previous best mpg on that 25 mile trip (based on the car's computer) was around 40mpg and doing this increased it to 46mpg and change. On the way back down (slightly different route since I was going to class, not home) I did the same thing and achieved 51mpg! I had no idea I was doing it all wrong all along! I guess now that I know how to drive this thing, these mid 50mpg numbers will be easy to achieve.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

synthetic74 said:


> I did a little experiment today and deviated from my normal driving pattern. On my trip from home to my girlfriend's last night I drove my 64mph (55mph zones) sections in 6th gear instead of 5th. I previously though I was doing the right thing driving in the peak efficiency RPM, but perhaps I was wrong. And in the 65mph zones instead of going 74mph, I kept it at around 69mph. My previous best mpg on that 25 mile trip (based on the car's computer) was around 40mpg and doing this increased it to 46mpg and change. On the way back down (slightly different route since I was going to class, not home) I did the same thing and achieved 51mpg! I had no idea I was doing it all wrong all along! I guess now that I know how to drive this thing, these mid 50mpg numbers will be easy to achieve.


FYI, i've achieved my low 50's mpg in my STOCK Jetta by very careful, mostly highway driving. also, i try not to let the engine rev over 2K. i shift at 2K and usually cruise hwy at 65mpg in 6th gear. just as important is refraining from hard accelerations, whether it be off the line, or while passing and changing lane.


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

WhiteTDI said:


> FYI, i've achieved my low 50's mpg in my STOCK Jetta by very careful, mostly highway driving. also, i try not to let the engine rev over 2K. i shift at 2K and usually cruise hwy at 65mpg in 6th gear. just as important is refraining from hard accelerations, whether it be off the line, or while passing and changing lane.


In otherwords boring driving? Kidding but seriously never letting the engine rev above 2 k you must be crawling up those highway hills.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

strykeback said:


> In otherwords boring driving? Kidding but seriously never letting the engine rev above 2 k you must be crawling up those highway hills.


Actually thats the great thing about turbo diesel engine, is all that torque! Having gone up the Grapevine a lot, even on cruise control at 65mph, the TDI literally pulls you up.... very effortlessly at that too! Trust me when I say, it never crawls. But yeah, my long highway drives on cruise control can get boring. Then again, I purposely got my car as a commuter vehicle for work use. In fact last year alone, I put on close to 50K for the whole year in 2010!! And with fuel prices increasing so rapidly, I'm even more cautious on how I drive to maximize my efficiency. My goal is to hit 60mpg someday with a well broken in motor, chip/DPF delete, and any weight reduction (eg. lighter wheels, exhaust, etc).


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

WhiteTDI said:


> Actually thats the great thing about turbo diesel engine, is all that torque! Having gone up the Grapevine a lot, even on cruise control at 65mph, the TDI literally pulls you up.... very effortlessly at that too! Trust me when I say, it never crawls. But yeah, my long highway drives on cruise control can get boring. Then again, I purposely got my car as a commuter vehicle for work use. In fact last year alone, I put on close to 50K for the whole year in 2010!! And with fuel prices increasing so rapidly, I'm even more cautious on how I drive to maximize my efficiency. My goal is to hit 60mpg someday with a well broken in motor, chip/DPF delete, and any weight reduction (eg. lighter wheels, exhaust, etc).


I hear you on the commute. I do nearly 800 miles a week on the central coast down to santa barbara where there's a couple good size hills that my 1.8t jetta loves to pull up while others slow to a crawl. The downside is I look at the gas guage and look at the gallon of gas I just wasted.

Definitely need to get my tdi.


----------



## CustomSpooling (Apr 17, 2011)

baggedbox707 said:


> So all you used was your VAGcom to disable the EGR/DPF Cycle? Do you have screen shots of what you did then?


Hi,

Sorry for the late reply. No, not with VAGcom. I am a tuner, I extract data from ECU file and using WINols editing software I delete the DPF.


----------



## CustomSpooling (Apr 17, 2011)

Guys,

you can *NOT* rely on the dash display to give you accurate MPG figures after a tune and or dpf delete.

They are fairly accurate when the car is stock but they get their calculations based on the amount of air entering the engine - by knowing how much air is entering, they will know how much diesel is requested and therefore will know how much diesel is consumed.

After a tune, the amount of diesel to the amount of air differs which means the dash display MPG is inaccurate.


- Ever fit a tuning box that only forces extra diesel into the engine by raising fuel pressure and magically the dash display jumps up by 5MPG!

To work out real MPG after a tune you need to fill up and count manually.

With DPF delete and a good tune MPG gains are real and significant.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

CustomSpooling said:


> Guys,
> 
> you can *NOT* rely on the dash display to give you accurate MPG figures after a tune and or dpf delete.
> 
> ...


Are you sure you're not thinking of the gasser? I swear VCDS shows injection volume, and my MFD has been pretty close even since the DPF delete and tune.


----------



## CustomSpooling (Apr 17, 2011)

ToeBall said:


> Are you sure you're not thinking of the gasser? I swear VCDS shows injection volume, and my MFD has been pretty close even since the DPF delete and tune.


I have checked them on a lot of VAG cars and they all work via the Air intake. I have checked a Crafter, passat, t5 transporter and a mkv golf and that is how they work

I would be interested to know if US spec vw's readings are taken else where.


----------



## Smashed Ixnay (Mar 5, 2010)

For those that have got rid of the DPF and are tuned is there anything you have to do to the tranny to hold the extra power? I'm just asking because I looked at Malone's site and didn't see anything about it. I have an 02 F350 and when I added exhaust, air intake, and a tuner I ended up beefing my tranny some because it was starting to slip with the extra hp/tq.


We have a 2010 Jetta TDI (fiancee's car), which I don't plan on doing anything to it till the warranty is out. We bought the extra warranty for 5 years 60k miles, so we still have some peace at mind.

I'm considering buying a 2006/2010 Jetta TDI for myself, but not sure which one I want. If I was to get a 2006 I'd definitely tune it, but a 2010 I'd be up in the air if it had some warranty left.


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

Malone mentioned working on a separate tune for the dsg so it could handle the extra torque. But the added cost has me considerering the manual.


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

Smashed Ixnay said:


> For those that have got rid of the DPF and are tuned is there anything you have to do to the tranny to hold the extra power? I'm just asking because I looked at Malone's site and didn't see anything about it. I have an 02 F350 and when I added exhaust, air intake, and a tuner I ended up beefing my tranny some because it was starting to slip with the extra hp/tq.
> 
> 
> We have a 2010 Jetta TDI (fiancee's car), which I don't plan on doing anything to it till the warranty is out. We bought the extra warranty for 5 years 60k miles, so we still have some peace at mind.
> ...


Volkswagen has the DSG software set to torque limit at ~300 ft/lbs and less than that for first and second gear. My current Unitronic tune caused a few harsh shifting situations when going from half throttle car goes to shift and then full throttle. But other than that it's been holding up fine.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

Smashed Ixnay said:


> For those that have got rid of the DPF and are tuned is there anything you have to do to the tranny to hold the extra power? I'm just asking because I looked at Malone's site and didn't see anything about it. I have an 02 F350 and when I added exhaust, air intake, and a tuner I ended up beefing my tranny some because it was starting to slip with the extra hp/tq.
> 
> 
> We have a 2010 Jetta TDI (fiancee's car), which I don't plan on doing anything to it till the warranty is out. We bought the extra warranty for 5 years 60k miles, so we still have some peace at mind.
> ...


With the stock turbo and injectors, and stock fuel rail pressure, the max output is around 350 ft lbs. The manual has no problems with that, and the clutch holds ok, but it's at the limit. HPA sells upgrade clutches and even trans internals. I'd also consider Raxles going significantly higher than this (hell, I'm already considering them). My only other relevant mod is bigger tires to give me taller gearing so I can put some of the extra torque to work. Even with this setup (255's) I can chirp third.


----------



## JMaN06 (Apr 11, 2007)

I juat have to add to a point already mentioned, what about all the diesel trcks? Companies sell cat deletes and dpf deletes for every other diesel. They make you sign a waier saying youll use it for track or offroad use only. Holding you accountable. I have a 2011 dodge with straight pipe.. Of course off road use only..

Companies usually make programmers that offer catless or dfpless exhaust tunes. For those people who want best mpg and unleash most possible hidden hp n tq. 

Next what does the us government plan to do about all pre2003 diesels that didnt even come with cats? So its legal for some guy to have a straight pipe on his 2002 jetta but not a 2011 jetta?


----------



## CustomSpooling (Apr 17, 2011)

JMaN06 said:


> So its legal for some guy to have a straight pipe on his 2002 jetta but not a 2011 jetta?


Yes


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Just some more feedback: "Now that we have had the down pipe on our 09 TDI for a while, I have a short report. Milage has increased. The car used to be in the 41-42 range and is now in the 45-47 range. It has gone from 550ish per tank to 630+ per tank. I am impressed with the increase. Power with the stage 1 tune is stronger, but not as much as I expected. Overall the car runs well and my wife is pleased with the milage increase. " 

Customer did the stage 1 tune with downpipe because VWOA wouldn't cover a dpf failure. He decided to go with a stage 1 because of less smoke / money when we talked, since it was his wifes car. Anyone else with feedback please let me know. I would like to post it up on my site and gain any insight for improvements from all of you.


----------



## RaddoDubbs (Jun 19, 2005)

JMaN06 said:


> Next what does the us government plan to do about all pre2003 diesels that didnt even come with cats? So its legal for some guy to have a straight pipe on his 2002 jetta but not a 2011 jetta?


In California, all diesels are required by law to have the OEM Emmisions components on the vehicle unless being used for off road purposes (Not on a city/state funded road)

I don't know if the PD diesels came with cats built into the downpipe or what, but if they were there from the factory, they legally have to be there to pass new diesel smog laws.


----------



## CustomSpooling (Apr 17, 2011)

shortysclimbin said:


> Just some more feedback: "Now that we have had the down pipe on our 09 TDI for a while, I have a short report. Milage has increased. The car used to be in the 41-42 range and is now in the 45-47 range. It has gone from 550ish per tank to 630+ per tank. I am impressed with the increase. Power with the stage 1 tune is stronger, but not as much as I expected. Overall the car runs well and my wife is pleased with the milage increase. "
> 
> Customer did the stage 1 tune with downpipe because VWOA wouldn't cover a dpf failure. He decided to go with a stage 1 because of less smoke / money when we talked, since it was his wifes car. Anyone else with feedback please let me know. I would like to post it up on my site and gain any insight for improvements from all of you.


Do you have your DPF deleted and tuned for DPF off?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

CustomSpooling said:


> Do you have your DPF deleted and tuned for DPF off?


Yes and yes.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yes and yes.


:thumbup:


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Yes  

Toeball whats your Fuel economy like these days? I am trying to get an average over DPF and full exhaust users to see what gains are.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> Yes
> 
> Toeball whats your Fuel economy like these days? I am trying to get an average over DPF and full exhaust users to see what gains are.


Oh, mine's low. With the oversize tires, my odometer is WAY off so my average is showing as about 37-38 mpg. This should work out to around 40 actual, but the variance is larger than with the smaller tires.


----------



## rebelsxc (Jul 29, 2010)

ToeBall said:


> Oh, mine's low. With the oversize tires, my odometer is WAY off so my average is showing as about 37-38 mpg. This should work out to around 40 actual, but the variance is larger than with the smaller tires.


Does anyone know how this can be edited/accounted for in VAG-COM?

Kyle and Ethan just did my brakes before throwing the Summers on, & I can already tell it's way off....


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

rebelsxc said:


> Does anyone know how this can be edited/accounted for in VAG-COM?
> 
> Kyle and Ethan just did my brakes before throwing the Summers on, & I can already tell it's way off....


It's in the instruments section. There's some presets but I haven't found the right one yet. Honestly, it's just been low priority for me.


----------



## stibz (Apr 25, 2010)

So is anybody running dpf and egr delete with a stage 2 tune, on a DSG? Or are the DSG owners stuck with a stage 1 tune to prevent damaging the DSG?


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

stibz said:


> So is anybody running dpf and egr delete with a stage 2 tune, on a DSG? Or are the DSG owners stuck with a stage 1 tune to prevent damaging the DSG?


I know of one, but he's running the HPA software on his trans.


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

My mileage is up to 46mpg average from 37mpg average. But I have also been driving differently. Prior to my new driving style, I was seeing 41 average. So the DPF, exhaust, tune, and intake accounted for about an 11% increase in economy. The easier driving and earlier shifting has added more, but I assume the two to be synergistic, so my overall 25% (attributable to mods, better weather, and better driving) is likely at least half from the work done.


----------



## stibz (Apr 25, 2010)

ToeBall said:


> I know of one, but he's running the HPA software on his trans.


Thanks ToeBall! Any feedback from him on how it's holding up? I'll probably just end up going with the stage 1 as my main goal is the delete. As a former 01M owner, I'm weary of transmission issues, and I love the dsg.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

stibz said:


> Thanks ToeBall! Any feedback from him on how it's holding up? I'll probably just end up going with the stage 1 as my main goal is the delete. As a former 01M owner, I'm weary of transmission issues, and I love the dsg.


I know of plenty of guys running the HPA software on that trans. Actually one is a R32 running almost 700 ft lbs without issue. He ran the Texas mile at 180 not too long ago. Alternately, Malone can program for the down pipe without raising the power. I'm actually having this discussion right now with my dad who's got an 11 TDI Golf and a down pipe sitting in his garage. He doesn't want to go with the full stage 2 because mine puffs a bit on takeoff and does have a little sooting over time. Of course, I know that Mark's been working on revised software to fix that issue.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Toeball,

Also remember you have no cat, if you install one it will reduce that quite a bit. Let me know if you need one for your dads car. Its not that much of a power hit.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

Considering he's planning on leaving the stock muffler in place, it'd be an improvement. He loves the sound of my car, and would love to have his sound like this, only not as loud. Personally, I think it's fine until you get on it, and at that point, loud is ok anyway. As for the soot. A little is on par for Diesel. Also, after playing with tire pressure and speedo adjustment, I'm back up to 42 mpg calculated, even with the 255/40R18's under the car. My speed pulse is set to that of an Amarok and it's still a bit off, 75mph indicated = 78 mph according to GPS.


----------



## stibz (Apr 25, 2010)

This is all great news...just a bummer i'll have to shell out another $900 for the HPA software, but better safe than sorry.


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

*MPG's before and after stage 2*

Ok, about three thousand miles have passed since I went for the Malone stage 2 with dpf delete. I've tracked every tank of diesel since I bought the car back in 10-2009 and I see no better MPG's and unless I get a few more MPG soon I'll even say I lost 1 in the process. The car now smells, before I never smelled diesel. It also has black smoke that leaves a bit around the rear bumper. Of course there is a lot more power and the car drives better but if you are considering the DPF delete you need to know there is a trade off for that power.


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

pcporemba said:


> Ok, about three thousand miles have passed since I went for the Malone stage 2 with dpf delete. I've tracked every tank of diesel since I bought the car back in 10-2009 and I see no better MPG's and unless I get a few more MPG soon I'll even say I lost 1 in the process. The car now smells, before I never smelled diesel. It also has black smoke that leaves a bit around the rear bumper. Of course there is a lot more power and the car drives better but if you are considering the DPF delete you need to know there is a trade off for that power.


Thanks for the input..:thumbup: Do you have a DSG? If so, hows that holding up with the Malone Stage 2??


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

mako159 said:


> Thanks for the input..:thumbup: Do you have a DSG? If so, hows that holding up with the Malone Stage 2??


No, I got the manual.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

Of course there's a smell, you got rid of the Diesel oxidation catalyst. It's also louder, right? How much soot are you getting? I get a bit but since I wash my car pretty much every weekend I didn't seem to have any real issues with it. When I got the tune initially, I lost about 4-5 mpg, but that proved to be driver not vehicle. One I was driving more aggressively because I could, and two, because the throttle attenuation algorithm is gone, small movements in throttle while going down the freeway made significant differences in millage. Once I got used to it, everything wound up settling out to the same mileage as before the tune. The downpipe gained me a couple of MPG. Since you got both, you could be canceling one with the other?


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

ToeBall said:


> Of course there's a smell, you got rid of the Diesel oxidation catalyst. It's also louder, right? How much soot are you getting? I get a bit but since I wash my car pretty much every weekend I didn't seem to have any real issues with it. When I got the tune initially, I lost about 4-5 mpg, but that proved to be driver not vehicle. One I was driving more aggressively because I could, and two, because the throttle attenuation algorithm is gone, small movements in throttle while going down the freeway made significant differences in millage. Once I got used to it, everything wound up settling out to the same mileage as before the tune. The downpipe gained me a couple of MPG. Since you got both, you could be canceling one with the other?


Not really louder but a bit more raspy, I like the sound. I'm still running the stock exhaust for now. Still waiting for some extra funds before changing that out. Not sure if I'll go with Kyle's exhaust or cheap out with the Borla. The smoke is more when I floor it. It is very noticable in the rear view mirror. Next time I'm up in Vermont I'll see what Kyle suggests to reduce that smell/smoke.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

pcporemba said:


> Not really louder but a bit more raspy, I like the sound. I'm still running the stock exhaust for now. Still waiting for some extra funds before changing that out. Not sure if I'll go with Kyle's exhaust or cheap out with the Borla. The smoke is more when I floor it. It is very noticable in the rear view mirror. Next time I'm up in Vermont I'll see what Kyle suggests to reduce that smell/smoke.


Interesting. Mine puffs a bit on takeoff and then no smoke at all. How long ago did Mark tune it and to what level?


----------



## schreibers (Jul 3, 2007)

pcporemba said:


> Ok, about three thousand miles have passed since I went for the Malone stage 2 with dpf delete. I've tracked every tank of diesel since I bought the car back in 10-2009 and I see no better MPG's and unless I get a few more MPG soon I'll even say I lost 1 in the process. The car now smells, before I never smelled diesel. It also has black smoke that leaves a bit around the rear bumper. Of course there is a lot more power and the car drives better but if you are considering the DPF delete you need to know there is a trade off for that power.


I have a little puff if I suddenly get on it, but other than that I've noticed increased mileage (though at first due to the fun factor it went down) of around 4mpg in city. The diesel smell was there at first, but really I hardly notice it anymore. The exhaust note and subtle turbo spooling is one of my favorite parts of the car now. Honestly I couldn't be more pleased with the stuff from Malone & Kyle, it's just a blast to drive around town and on the hwy.


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

ToeBall said:


> Interesting. Mine puffs a bit on takeoff and then no smoke at all. How long ago did Mark tune it and to what level?


Got mine done about three months and almost four thousand miles ago. Stage 2 tune with DPF delete but stock exhuast.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

2010 Jetta TDI *DSG* with Stage 2 - this is the first official DSG dyno we have.










More information here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=319229

So far I would recommend a DSG tune even with a Stage 1 performance tune. It helps maintain smooth shifts. My DSG tune development will begin soon. HPA has a DSG tune readily available.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Here's a video of smoke from a 2010 Jetta TDI with an aggressive Stage 2 tune (334 wheel torque) with a straight pipe (no diesel particulate filter, etc.): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ajR6ZTKEnQ


Concerning the smoke issue with a Stage 2 tune or any +30HP tune in general: 



The smoke is more visible if you remove the DPF and/or catalytic converter. Stage 2 is 100% smoke-free if the DPF is still in place, as evidenced by this video.
The smoke normally starts appearing only if you press the accelerator pedal at least 80%.
The smoke opacity can vary from car to car depending on fuel quality, climate, etc.
Raising boost further will reduce smoke (some tuners may attempt this), but at the potential cost of turbo longevity.
If you have DPF delete and if you are concerned about smoke while you're racing the car, then I recommend the Stage 1 tune instead of Stage 2.
We tuned a TDI with GTB2260VK turbo and it was virtually smoke-free at ~230bhp. Proper airflow modifications (hint: an intake "upgrade" may not help) can give you even more power potential without adding smoke.
Removing the DPF (for off-road use only) can still be beneficial for lower EGT (good for turbo and oil longevity) and for lower fuel consumption.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Great to see that dyno up in public now  I will add it to the dyno sheets page for comparison. 

Peter- As Mark mentioned thier is a few things that can be done to reduce smoke, but it will reduce power. We can work something out to get it sorted out. Also, as others mentioned your foot controls the fuel economy and if you are using that extra power then your fuel economy will go down. Try keeping the throttle from going down no more than 1/3 the distance when taking off and increase it slower. See if that helps a bit and get back to me.


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

shortysclimbin said:


> Great to see that dyno up in public now  I will add it to the dyno sheets page for comparison.
> 
> Peter- As Mark mentioned thier is a few things that can be done to reduce smoke, but it will reduce power. We can work something out to get it sorted out. Also, as others mentioned your foot controls the fuel economy and if you are using that extra power then your fuel economy will go down. Try keeping the throttle from going down no more than 1/3 the distance when taking off and increase it slower. See if that helps a bit and get back to me.


Hi Kyle:

As for the MPG's I'm pretty sure I'm getting the most I can out of it. Doing a lot of hypermiling stuff as before the tune. I'm still rev'ing it out every now and then (like before) to blow the crap out. At least thats my reason for having a bit of fun. When I get ready for another trip up north I'll let you know and hopefully I'll have some more money to spend.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

pcporemba said:


> Hi Kyle:
> 
> As for the MPG's I'm pretty sure I'm getting the most I can out of it. Doing a lot of hypermiling stuff as before the tune. I'm still rev'ing it out every now and then (like before) to blow the crap out. At least thats my reason for having a bit of fun. When I get ready for another trip up north I'll let you know and hopefully I'll have some more money to spend.


Try comparing cruise with your foot on the throttle and using the cruise control. I just find it hard to believe you lost mileage.


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

2000 Jetta, Utah, Utah County. No diesel emissions testing. Before they got rid of the testing, it didn't even have to have a cat as long as it passed the opacity requirement for that year, which was almost impossible to fail.

AKA: No cat required.

Although, the exhaust smell is a lot more pungent (gets sucked in the AC at stop lights) and that's almost enough to make me want to put it back on.:thumbup:


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

ToeBall said:


> Try comparing cruise with your foot on the throttle and using the cruise control. I just find it hard to believe you lost mileage.


Hi Toeball
I've been tracking every tank and run the same route so I'm sure of the results. Remember I'm getting 44.6 MPG for the life of the car. That's in the top ten on Fuelly for my year with a wagon. If you look at my stats on Fuelly.com you'll see that temp is the biggest factor for me. I'm in NJ and the cold/winter fuel cuts my numbers better good. After such a big jump in HP I'm amazed that the MPG did'nt go down more. Of course I was hoping I'd see an increase like other people and that was a factor in my decision to go with the deletes.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

pcporemba said:


> Hi Toeball
> I've been tracking every tank and run the same route so I'm sure of the results. Remember I'm getting 44.6 MPG for the life of the car. That's in the top ten on Fuelly for my year with a wagon. If you look at my stats on Fuelly.com you'll see that temp is the biggest factor for me. I'm in NJ and the cold/winter fuel cuts my numbers better good. After such a big jump in HP I'm amazed that the MPG did'nt go down more. Of course I was hoping I'd see an increase like other people and that was a factor in my decision to go with the deletes.


Yeah, but that's not what I mean. The way you have to use the throttle changes after the tune if you're trying to get the same mileage. You have to be very smooth and make tiny adjustments. The cruise does this well so I'm curious to see if eliminating an untrained foot (if it's even the case) brings the mileage up.


----------



## Hank101 (May 3, 2009)

Are there any performance gains to be realized from a "straight-back" after the DPF?
If so, are there any special sensors ect.. that need to be dealt with?

Thanks,


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

Not really, a little bit louder and a CEL for the o2 sonsor untill you get a tune. Your tune will make the biggest differance. Deleting the DPF just helps a lot.

Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Peter, when you get a chance we can look into retuning for a lower stage and or few add on options for you to remove some of the smoke and smell. 

As others have mentioned the downpipe is the biggest gain, but the flapper valve back exhaust I offer does show improvements of egt temps and power over the oem setup along with a huge weight savings!


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

*Exhaust*



shortysclimbin said:


> Peter, when you get a chance we can look into retuning for a lower stage and or few add on options for you to remove some of the smoke and smell.
> 
> As others have mentioned the downpipe is the biggest gain, but the flapper valve back exhaust I offer does show improvements of egt temps and power over the oem setup along with a huge weight savings!


Hi Kyle:

I was thinking of adding your exhaust. What's the difference between yours and the Borla? The Borla looks like it's just bent pipe with chrome tips.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Hello Peter, 

Performance Diesel Engineering's exhaust offers a few options over borla's and banks axle back piece: 

1) My exhausts go all the way back to the downpipe offering a true CAT back exhaust style. This allows you to run a full 2.5" exhaust system where as the borla will still have the restrictive oem system in place. 
2) My exhaust has a resignator/ high flow Muffler in place. This quites down some higher pitch noise and passes most requirements for exhaust inspections. 
3) I have designed the exhaust to be adjustable for normal / GLI / and TDICUP so it is more universal than the borla or banks (others require cutting and rewelding for fit).


----------



## pcporemba (Mar 26, 2011)

*Exhaust*



shortysclimbin said:


> Hello Peter,
> 
> Performance Diesel Engineering's exhaust offers a few options over borla's and banks axle back piece:
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the info. I guess I need to start saving for my next trip up north.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Since there was quite a bit of discussion about Stage 2 + DPF delete smoke in this thread, I figured it'd be appropriate to include a video here:






The smoke is visible only at or very near WOT (wide open "throttle").


----------



## Hank101 (May 3, 2009)

Mark,

From another forum, regarding the recent 23H1 ECU flash: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=318495&page=5 

"My Revo software was removed by the dealer when I had them flash the ECU, but I expected this. I went back to the Revo dealer.. they looked at the new software code and told us they'd never seen the new code before. So we scanned the whole ECU and sent Revo the file. A month later (just last week) Revo tells us that my ECU has been locked out like >2010 cars and they'll need to bench the ECU to scan it and get it flashed"

Would this be a concern for your DPF delete tune?
I had my ECU flashed and can tell that the Revo tune is gone/deminished, but drivability has improved, along with a slight improvement in MPG.

Thanks,


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Hank101 said:


> Mark,
> 
> From another forum, regarding the recent 23H1 ECU flash: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=318495&page=5
> 
> ...


At the time of this writing, we only bench-flash 2009-2012 ECUs so this is a non-issue for us. 

Benching an ECU is beneficial as it does not increment the flash counter AFAIK, and it allows us to do a full backup of the ECU (not possible thru OBD2).


----------



## DiezlDub (Jun 24, 2011)

I, like many others, are very interested in this but had some other questions related to it. Since it is a bit of money I'd like to really nail down the benefits. I'm not doubting anything said, just trying to understand the functions of each component. If the stage 2 tune is the primary reason for the increase in drive-ability and the downpipe is really only needed to open the door for future power adders then it'll help me plan out my mods more efficiently. 

It seems like most of the people that get this downpipe usually purchase a stage1/2 tune to go along with it. Having done a bunch of research on ECU tuning, I know that it really changes the driving dynamics of the car (almost always for the best). I'm curious if anyone has done just the DPF delete downpipe and DPF delete tune from Malone, without the additional stage1/2 tunes? 

I remember reading another post earlier (forgive me for not quoting whoever you are) that stated that starting out in first no longer has that bogging "issue" and the throttle was much more responsive (in addition to the power and mileage increases). I'd really just like to see if that was due to the upgraded tune or the downpipe or a combination of both. I'm not so worried about if the downpipe gives me power or not but I'd like to iron out the exhaust restrictions and hopefully improve the lower "off-boost" responsiveness. I'll rely on the tune to handle the majority of the power increase.

I, myself, will be going with a stage 2 tune anyway with downpipe and full straight exhaust (when finances allow) but would like to see which of these added benefits are attributed to the downpipe and which are due to the tune. Sorry if this has been addressed already.. I'm looking for user experiences if possible.

Thanks.


----------



## bmw511 (Jul 16, 2010)

I remember reading that just a straight pipe back from the catalytic converter got rid of the bog. It's driving me nuts on the TDI. I'm thinking I want to do the DPF delete but CA SMOG requirements are horrible and I wouldn't pass. I think the best option for me would be a Stage 1 tune with a cat-back muffler? Any recommendations for Nor-Cal ECU tuners?


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

bmw511 said:


> I remember reading that just a straight pipe back from the catalytic converter got rid of the bog. It's driving me nuts on the TDI. I'm thinking I want to do the DPF delete but CA SMOG requirements are horrible and I wouldn't pass. I think the best option for me would be a Stage 1 tune with a cat-back muffler? Any recommendations for Nor-Cal ECU tuners?


Or throw the pipe back on come smog time


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

strykeback said:


> Or throw the pipe back on come smog time




I wouldn't suggest that option, its a b!tch to take out in the first place. For smog do they do the tailpipe probe?


----------



## strykeback (Mar 22, 2011)

cmrnowlin said:


> I wouldn't suggest that option, its a b!tch to take out in the first place. For smog do they do the tailpipe probe?


Believe it is. Though my last car I owned 8 years and had to have it smogged once the last year I had it. So the odds of having a smog check must be a lottery.


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

strykeback said:


> Believe it is. Though my last car I owned 8 years and had to have it smogged once the last year I had it. So the odds of having a smog check must be a lottery.


Interesting, in AZ they just check for a CEL. You could probably get away with throwing your cat back on for testing then take it back off afterwords. I didn't have much smoke at all until my EGT sensor went out on me.


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

DiezlDub said:


> I, like many others, are very interested in this but had some other questions related to it. Since it is a bit of money I'd like to really nail down the benefits. I'm not doubting anything said, just trying to understand the functions of each component. If the stage 2 tune is the primary reason for the increase in drive-ability and the downpipe is really only needed to open the door for future power adders then it'll help me plan out my mods more efficiently.
> 
> It seems like most of the people that get this downpipe usually purchase a stage1/2 tune to go along with it. Having done a bunch of research on ECU tuning, I know that it really changes the driving dynamics of the car (almost always for the best). I'm curious if anyone has done just the DPF delete downpipe and DPF delete tune from Malone, without the additional stage1/2 tunes?
> 
> ...


They're sort of interdependent mods, but to sort of answer your question, I still had the shudder issue with the stage 2 tune when I had the DPF. The engine produced a lot more grunt on the low end, no more bog-kill, and throttle response was better but no improvement in millage (actually had some loss until I learned finer throttle modulation). I'll throw in a video as well.


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

Is the video with or without the DPF?


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

mako159 said:


> Is the video with or without the DPF?


It'd be a little disingenuous to post a video with a DPF in a thread about DPF deletes...


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

It sounds amazing! I just wish it wasn't so expensive. I would have to get the DSG flash as well. Kyle, any word on when Malone will have theirs ready? When I spoke with you on the phone you mentioned this summer or end of summer.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

The two youtube videos in posts #366 and #375 are Stage 2 tunes without DPF. #375 is in 100F Texas weather, so there is a little more smoke opacity there.

I'm very pleased with the low amount of smoke shown in both videos (compared to most older TDIs making at least 169whp), especially #366 with an aggressive @ 334ft-lb torque tune.


----------



## DiezlDub (Jun 24, 2011)

ToeBall said:


> They're sort of interdependent mods, but to sort of answer your question, I still had the shudder issue with the stage 2 tune when I had the DPF. The engine produced a lot more grunt on the low end, no more bog-kill, and throttle response was better but no improvement in millage (actually had some loss until I learned finer throttle modulation). I'll throw in a video as well.



Thanks for that! Cleared it up for me :thumbup:

It does sound pretty vicious and that noise alone might be enough to sell it to me :laugh: Is that Kyle's exhaust/downpipe or something else?


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

DiezlDub said:


> Thanks for that! Cleared it up for me :thumbup:
> 
> It does sound pretty vicious and that noise alone might be enough to sell it to me :laugh: Is that Kyle's exhaust/downpipe or something else?


It's Kyle's downpipe, then a 2.75" pipe, then the Banks cat-back. I recommend not getting the Banks. We did a straight 2.5" using Kyle's downpipe and some generic mandrel bends for my dad's Golf with a Magnaflow 12866 muffler. It sounds the same as mine, just quieter. I'll be redoing mine soon as well. Waiting on HPA to get back to me on the parts for my AWD swap first. Here's a few photos of dad's in the mean time.









Kyle's downpipe.









About 70 lbs of stuff you don't need.









New exhaust.









Muffler right in front of the tank.









ECU exposed.









Surgical field to cut off security bolts.

Getting the DPF out takes quite a bit of work. A few pieces of advice. Just undo the wiring to the sensors and drop them out with the DPF, it's much easier. When pulling the DPF out, you can undo the passenger side CV shaft to get it out of the way and rotate the DPF through 180 degrees to pull it out without undoing the subframe. Just have a flat head screw driver ready to keep the heat shield off the bracket as it comes out. There's probably a few other tricks I found as I went to make things easier but those are the big ones.


----------



## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

This gets me very excited. Sounds great but hoping to see some more members post an improvement in fuel milage. Stage one with dpf delete will be on my to do list once the cars gets outside the warranty range.


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

*FV-QR*

Went to WaterWerks, awesome show and got her Dyno'd. 178Hp/260LbFt, I'll post up a video later.


----------



## WhiteTDI (Jan 17, 2010)

cmrnowlin said:


> Went to WaterWerks, awesome show and got her Dyno'd. 178Hp/260LbFt, I'll post up a video later.


what mods?


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

WhiteTDI said:


> what mods?


Malone stage 1, straight pipe exhaust, getto intake, i have prolane injection too but it wasnt on for the dyno.

Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

cmrnowlin said:


> Malone stage 1, straight pipe exhaust, getto intake, i have prolane injection too but it wasnt on for the dyno.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk


DSG or manual? If DSG, how's it handleing the tune?


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

*FV-QR*

DSG. It handles it just fine. So me time a few hard shifts in D or S but only when i punch it. I wish i knew when the transmission plans on shifting, it would make things a lot easier, it doesn't seem to be consistent. I kinda wish i had a stick, but oh well. 










As you can see we had a hard time getting a good run in the bottom end. The engine's rpm's would pulsate. it was weird. you can see the dyno on my FB.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Pretty good HP Casey! Your car retains torque better (up to 4000 RPM) than most tunes I've seen, and that contributes to more HP.

Your TDI DSG is one of the very few vehicles running my early tune. I put DSG development on hold for quite some time (with a long wait list of TDI DSG customers now). A few things I want to note:

1. A milder Stage 1 tune will be released for TDI owners with stock DSG software. This will eliminate the occasional hard shifts you experienced and maintain a much flatter power curve. Torque normally drops off pretty steeply after 2500RPM, but I intend to retain as much torque as safely possible at higher RPM for great HP, like your dyno shows.

2. I will release a Stage 2 ECU tune + DSG tune combo that will allow more power with no hard shifts. A customer with this setup said "All shifts are smooth up and down at any speed and any throttle position." This is his 334ft-lb torque dyno. However I will set a 400-420Nm engine torque limit (max. ~270ft-lb @ wheels) as standard for DSG clients (unless they explicitly ask for more torque) as the DSG transmission does not have a high max. torque rating by the factory.

3. The pulsating you experienced on the dyno is most likely due to traction control. I have seen the exact same thing with a 2009 TDI Manual, and it was solved by removing the ABS and EPS fuses. Most dynonameters are not AWD with front and rear rollers linked together. If the front wheels spin rapidly and the rear wheels are not spinning to match, the traction control can kick in.


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> 3. The pulsating you experienced on the dyno is most likely due to traction control. I have seen the exact same thing with a 2009 TDI Manual, and it was solved by removing the ABS and EPS fuses. Most dynonameters are not AWD with front and rear rollers linked together. If the front wheels spin rapidly and the rear wheels are not spinning to match, the traction control can kick in.


That's what I figured, but Idk which fuse to take out. Not even my owners manual correlates to whats in the fuse box. do you have a diagram? I'm really excited for your DSG tune to come out. I'll need an extra Lb of boost to help with my propane, can you do that for stage 2?


----------



## mako159 (Jun 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Pretty good HP Casey! Your car retains torque better (up to 4000 RPM) than most tunes I've seen, and that contributes to more HP.
> 
> Your TDI DSG is one of the very few vehicles running my early tune. I put DSG development on hold for quite some time (with a long wait list of TDI DSG customers now). A few things I want to note:
> 
> ...


Do you have a date set for when the stage 2 + DSG tune will be available?? I am getting close to yanking the ecu and dpf out but wondering if I should hold off now till it's released??


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

pcporemba said:


> Hi Kyle:
> 
> As for the MPG's I'm pretty sure I'm getting the most I can out of it. Doing a lot of hypermiling stuff as before the tune. I'm still rev'ing it out every now and then (like before) to blow the crap out. At least thats my reason for having a bit of fun. When I get ready for another trip up north I'll let you know and hopefully I'll have some more money to spend.












Not hypermiling, just driving.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Mark is working diligently on the DSG tune for us all. He is currently awaiting some testing and verification before moving on. Don't worry though! Good things come to those who wait!

Toeball- Check your tire pressure .. I am assuming you already have it set ok and just have a bad TPS sensor or non on those tires. Try changing the tire pressure a bit and see if that helps too. 


On another side note I wanted to also post this up for you guys: It is our newest exhaust setup for the new Golf TDI cars:


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> Mark is working diligently on the DSG tune for us all. He is currently awaiting some testing and verification before moving on. Don't worry though! Good things come to those who wait!
> 
> Toeball- Check your tire pressure .. I am assuming you already have it set ok and just have a bad TPS sensor or non on those tires. Try changing the tire pressure a bit and see if that helps too.
> 
> ...


Actually, the GTD has the tips together on the left side of the car like a normal TDI but uses a different bumper insert with a diffuser.









Thanks for that. One of my tires is actually low as of this morning. It's not drastically so, I just have the TPMS set high, close to the pressure I actually run my tires at so I get the light when it cools down sometimes. I haven't looked at why yet, but it is about 4 psi below where I normally run it.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

WELL then I guess our us version is going to look better!  


I posted some specials up for TDIFEST anyone want anything shipped down there let me know now so I can weld it up! 

Cheers 

Kyle


----------



## ToeBall (May 30, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> WELL then I guess our us version is going to look better!
> 
> 
> I posted some specials up for TDIFEST anyone want anything shipped down there let me know now so I can weld it up!
> ...


 Oh yeah, diffuser is way cooler.


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Pretty good HP Casey! Your car retains torque better (up to 4000 RPM) than most tunes I've seen, and that contributes to more HP.
> 
> Your TDI DSG is one of the very few vehicles running my early tune. I put DSG development on hold for quite some time (with a long wait list of TDI DSG customers now). A few things I want to note:
> 
> ...


Turns out my mechitronics unit was going out.....

Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Thats not good. Is it all fixed now or are you still working on it?


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> Thats not good. Is it all fixed now or are you still working on it?


Well once it gets out of the shop for the 2nd time, ill take it to the dealer.  if i drive it like a granny i can get from a to b but my wallet is starting to get light with fixing all this stuff. Btw when are we going to see a.turbo upgrade from you?

Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk


----------



## BrittHtdi (Aug 11, 2008)

Any idea how one would go about removing/replacing the DPF? If it is easy enough, probably going to bite the bullet in the next month or so.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Yes,

I think we have it down to a science now. Although it is a pita. It takes 4-8hrs depending on if you have a lift or not. Send me an email when you are ready and I will get you all sorted out.


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

^good post:thumbup:


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Thanks 85_305!

It was a long fighting process for all of us to get this done... now that it is and working beautifully I am looking to move on and do a few other toys for us  Long live high fuel economy and power!:snowcool:


----------



## corvettecrazy (Oct 1, 2010)

shortysclimbin: Do you do installs for DPF deletes at your shop? Is there a cost above the price of the DP? Am I correct in assuming you can do tunes on the spot as well?

Thanks


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

shortysclimbin said:


> Long live high fuel economy and power!:snowcool:


Amen, Brother:beer::snowcool:


----------



## Blitzn (Oct 5, 2011)

*Legal Illegal*



OttoSchultz said:


> I have no idea how many Diesel trucks are out there with DPF deletes. I also have no idea how many people sell pot in my town. Both are illegal and I have no plans to do either. Fines for tampering with the emissions system start at $10K.
> If a reputable tuner offers a tune that works _with_ the DPF and still offers more power and fuel mileage gains, I'm interested.


Actually, in most of the US, selling pot and consuming pot are now government revenue streams now ....
so you're actually saying you trust the govt more to determine what's fair and right than the individual?

Once I'm outta warranty - DPF delete me...


----------



## Blitzn (Oct 5, 2011)

*Equipment*

So, I see in the European makes there are several options for DPF delete pipes, and varying degrees regarding whether you need a new tune or not.
I am not having much luck finding options for what's available stateside.....anyone know?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Covette - I am a certified Malone Tune dealer and do work directly with Mark on all tunes and with this hardware so you get an OEM plus style feel when all done. Installation at this time is not done by me, due to no lift, but I have worked out a special at a friends shop for $450.00 USD installation price. Although, if someone with an Audi A3 or a new Jetta 2012 / Passat 2012 is interested I will be more than happy to work out a deal for a custom installation done by me personally. 


Blitzn- Options are slim pickings and the amount of these cars on the road is low. Right now I am the only ones in the USA offering these products.


----------



## Kwalsh24 (Aug 7, 2002)

Thinking on doing this to my JSW. Just wondering if anyone has any updated MPG numbers after doing this mod? The power will be nice however I am looking at the mpg's with this mod more so over the power. And yes I know the mpg's are greatly effected with the increased power and how much you use your RIGHT foot (haha). just diggin for some updated numbers haha.


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Kwalsh24 said:


> Thinking on doing this to my JSW. Just wondering if anyone has any updated MPG numbers after doing this mod? The power will be nice however I am looking at the mpg's with this mod more so over the power. And yes I know the mpg's are greatly effected with the increased power and how much you use your left foot. just diggin for some updated numbers haha.


Your _left_ foot?! _Most_ people drive with their _right_ foot


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

Kwalsh24 said:


> Thinking on doing this to my JSW. Just wondering if anyone has any updated MPG numbers after doing this mod? The power will be nice however I am looking at the mpg's with this mod more so over the power. And yes I know the mpg's are greatly effected with the increased power and how much you use your left foot. just diggin for some updated numbers haha.


 I get around 50mpg on true highway trips. 41-46 with mixed. 


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


----------



## Kwalsh24 (Aug 7, 2002)

Hahaha omg yeah i wrote that when I was half asleep, left for clutch right for accelerator hahaha duhhhh

50mpg eh, hmmm thats a possible go on this mod then as im only getting 38mpg in my jsw


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

I can easily get 45+ on the highway in my JSW all stock 6speed manial


----------



## Kwalsh24 (Aug 7, 2002)

hmm really? All ive gotten was 41 on a road trip last month. Im 98% highway driving this thing too. Weird. Could be climate conditions tho


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

Cool got most of my stuff here and plan on getting started this weekend on the PDE downpipe and full exhaust install. 

Any tips ,pointers to make the install go easier. So far from what I read I'm going to have to drop the subframe and maybe the passenger side axle (read that but makes no sense) I'm doing coilovers at the same time so taking the axle out is really no big deal if that is the case.
Thanks guys!


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

Kwalsh24 said:


> hmm really? All ive gotten was 41 on a road trip last month. Im 98% highway driving this thing too. Weird. Could be climate conditions tho


 Hey this time of year the winter fuel comes out and I can tell you I drop from the high 40's straight down to the low 40's. Well I think its the fuel plus colder denser air plus the engine comes alive so Im having a little more fun with it. Hit a 100 degree day and I'm trying for the 50's although that rarely happens. Right now I'm running the F1 stage 2 and going over to a Malone Stage 2 with all the deletes. Will be interesting to see what happens with the mileage. 

Ohh yeah I'm no hypermiler either I'm 75mph on the interstate


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

CRJSW said:


> Cool got most of my stuff here and plan on getting started this weekend on the PDE downpipe and full exhaust install.
> 
> Any tips ,pointers to make the install go easier. So far from what I read I'm going to have to drop the subframe and maybe the passenger side axle (read that but makes no sense) I'm doing coilovers at the same time so taking the axle out is really no big deal if that is the case.
> Thanks guys!


So no one? I guess I do have about 2 weeks to get this done so Ill take my time. 
Sorry I don't have the friendliest personality I guess. :facepalm:


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

I didnt have to brop the subframe, just the p-side axle. But I know of people who have gone as far as unbolting their emgine mounts to get a little extra clearance. Good luck.

Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

Hey thanks ! I figure it couldn't be any worse then getting to that half moon bolt on the Old Beetle lol That's definitely a test in ones character especially in a time of no ratchet wrenches. Right after I get home from the recall appointment I'm tearing her down got the Subframe bolts just in case. :beer:


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

I would recommend removing the subframe and just disconnect the passenger axle by removing the allen head bolts at the transmission and then letting it hang out of the way(support with wire or jack) which was plenty of clearance for me. Axle bolts suck anyways. I had to install and remove and reinstall my downpipe....which was not so much fun, cause i had another issue that i needed to go to the dealer for. I did mine on jack stands (all the way up) and definitely need all the ground clearance and two people to get the old downpipe out. Removing the heat shield on the body above the flex portion of the downpipe makes removal much easier. Make sure you have all the exhaust clamps u are going to need (I forgot to get an extra to tie the downpipe the rest of the new exhaust). Antiseize compound on all sensor bungs, and exhaust sealing paste ALL exhaust joints.

Anyone with install questions, feel free to PM me.


----------



## synthetic74 (Nov 29, 2010)

Agreed with all of the above post, except I did pull the axle. In hindsight, leaving the wheel side attached is a good idea if you can pull it off. Feel free to pm me as well. I'd even be happy to chat with you on the phone if advice is needed.

Oh, and I can't stress the anti seize enough! Do not forget it!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

synthetic74 said:


> Oh, and I can't stress the anti seize enough! Do not forget it!
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


Good call



Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

cmrnowlin said:


> Good call
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SPH-P100 using Tapatalk



Awesome guys! I have to take care of the recall on Monday then the ECU is getting packed up and going for a ride to a couple different stops. so Ill have a lot of time to scratch my head drink some Goose and just relax with this. I had some health issues to take care of so I have off work until Jan 9th.Then it needs to be done.
Ill count clamps tonight, I got the DP and full exhaust so I was thinking they all should be in the bag? Also I have the subframe bolts on order. Do these absolutely have to be replaced? I got the main ones but I know there will be more. I ordered the 4 that the schematic showed holds the frame in. Also have axle bolts as I am going to doing coil overs at the same time. 
Maybe I can post pics of progress as I go, I know Kyle was talking of possibly doing a write already on the procedure?

Thanks everyone!

Mike


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

Ohh yeah . Is there a gasket I need to get for the DP to turbo connection?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Having a spare turbo outlet gasket is not a bad thing, but to be honest most reuse it and have not had any issues that I am aware of concerning leaks.


----------



## DHonovich (Nov 27, 2011)

Has anyone done a dpf delete on a 2012 yet?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Nope not yet... Although I did crawl around and over a passat the other day to see parts fitment... Should work.


----------



## Kwalsh24 (Aug 7, 2002)

Alright, recall done, ecu sent out to Malone tuning now all that's left to do is the actual full downpipe and exhaust install. I'm also putting on a high flow magnaflow cat just to keep some emission control on the car along with a black exhaust tip. Ordered extra clamps too. Plans are to knock the install out this week/weekend. So my question is, should I inspect anything while I'm under the car digging away?


----------



## einvolk (Feb 20, 2009)

Just curious if deleting the EGR takes care of the iced up intercooler problem? From what I've been seeing come in the shop recently, if it doesn't mine will be getting traded in on a GTI before the end of the week. So hopefully you can help me out here, would rather not go further in debt.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

still waiting on more feedback to be sure, but thus far no issues that have been reported to me on iced intercoolers after tune and exhaust.... Im under the impression the u models are not havin ice issues, which would advocate for the theory of removing the low pressure egr.


----------



## cabracco85 (Apr 24, 2002)

Anyone dyno stock? what kind of boost pressure do these car run stock. Im new to tdi's and want to learn some more before i do any mods. Plus i have a warrenty to run out first but with driving 40k a year that will be soon enough.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Just put one on the dynopack 131whp / 217ftlbs on the neighbors new toy


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

I've hit 23 psi on mine.... with the stage 2 tune and full exhaust.


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

That's what I get also, It does hit 24 for a little. Stock is 22psi.


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

amctilldeath said:


> lastly, if you do find yourself getting randomly stopped and having police get on there hands and knees to see your exhaust... this is what you do... move out of Cali... lol


 Or you could just go low enough where the officer cant get his arm under your car ... problem solved low coils < $ spent moving :screwy::thumbup:


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

Even at stock height i dont think he will notice at all.


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

O2VW1.8T said:


> Even at stock height i dont think he will notice at all.


Agreed:thumbup:

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


----------



## bobby_tdi (Jul 3, 2011)

So i got the down pipe, installed. Its much easyer then removing the DPF. Got the ecu tuned for DPF delete and EGR delete, and stage 1. Every 50-200 miles it throws the engine light, turns cooling fans on high speed, and balls out white smoke. I turn car off and back on, reset engine light, and im good for another 50 or so miles. Any ideas whats going on? Car is 2011, tdi, with 10k on it. Im guessing it going into a self cleaning, but im not a tdi expert. :banghead:


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Yes, Upgraded vw tune that is tripping out going into regen mode... Seen it when I was first testing the tunes for the us cars. We will need to get the VCDS codes and logs from you to get it working. I just talked to Mark 2 hrs about about it. Just need a new reflash and update. Anyone in his area with vagcom willing to help out?


----------



## bobby_tdi (Jul 3, 2011)

Im in stafford/Houston texas if anyone wants to help.


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Bobby,

here is a list of vagcom owners that are willing to help! http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...055,86.572266&z=4&iwloc=000492ce69bc1ee2eac43


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Good News! I might have access to an A3 this weekend to mock up exhausts for


----------



## asal (Oct 12, 2007)

Kwalsh24 said:


> Alright, recall done, ecu sent out to Malone tuning now all that's left to do is the actual full downpipe and exhaust install. I'm also putting on a high flow magnaflow cat just to keep some emission control on the car along with a black exhaust tip. Ordered extra clamps too. Plans are to knock the install out this week/weekend. So my question is, should I inspect anything while I'm under the car digging away?


i like the list of mod's your running. Got a build thread? I"m interested in your thoughts on the Malone tune, so let us know.


----------



## i killed judas. (Jan 5, 2010)

Has anyone had any issues with fitment of the new down pipe/exhaust and any of the skid plates (specifically the OEM Euro Steel Skid Plate) commonly used on the TDI? 

Also, not to derail the thread, but I saw mention of a few AWD/4Motion installs throughout the thread...anyone have any update on that? Would really love an AWD TDI...


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

If the oem skidplate fits without issues the downpipe and exhaust will fit great... It has a lot more room around it than oem giving you more room to work in the engine bay. 

For the AWD go check out Malonesheck (sn) he has a build thread that details it very well and the progress.


----------



## i killed judas. (Jan 5, 2010)

shortysclimbin said:


> If the oem skidplate fits without issues the downpipe and exhaust will fit great... It has a lot more room around it than oem giving you more room to work in the engine bay.
> 
> For the AWD go check out Malonesheck (sn) he has a build thread that details it very well and the progress.


Thanks, but that username is invalid. Will definitely be contacting you in the near future for some pretty extensive work!


----------



## i killed judas. (Jan 5, 2010)

Nevermind, found it via google. Username maloosheck for any others interested


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

thanks! I knew it was something like that... :beer:


----------



## tdicup1 (Feb 23, 2012)

*DPF Delete Pipe*

Is anyone interested in a DPF delete pipe? I have a large stock of downpipes for that and also offer custom tunes where I can send you a cable and software to flash yourself. I also have turbo kits for the 140 2.0tdi and 170 tdi. Private message me if you are interested.


----------



## Blitzn (Oct 5, 2011)

tdicup1 said:


> Is anyone interested in a DPF delete pipe? I have a large stock of downpipes for that and also offer custom tunes where I can send you a cable and software to flash yourself. I also have turbo kits for the 140 2.0tdi and 170 tdi. Private message me if you are interested.


One of the few reasons I can't wait for my warranty to expire :laugh:


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

tdicup1 said:


> Is anyone interested in a DPF delete pipe? I have a large stock of downpipes for that and also offer custom tunes where I can send you a cable and software to flash yourself. I also have turbo kits for the 140 2.0tdi and 170 tdi. Private message me if you are interested.


^^UUUmmmm, yeah i wouldn't give this guy much stock. Kyle and Mark feel free to chime in on this. He cant ship you a cable to flash your own ECU, they require bench flashing with the ECU removed from the vehicle. Plus, the guy has only been here a month or so. I SMELL SCAM ALL OVER THAT^^^

If any of the newer subscribers to this thread are interested in performance parts/tuning for your TDI, talk to Kyle (shortysclimbin) and Mark Malone (Malone Tuning).

Just lookin out for my fellow Diesel-heads!! :thumbup:


----------



## asal (Oct 12, 2007)

1972SS454 said:


> ^^UUUmmmm, yeah i wouldn't give this guy much stock. Kyle and Mark feel free to chime in on this. He cant ship you a cable to flash your own ECU, they require bench flashing with the ECU removed from the vehicle. Plus, the guy has only been here a month or so. I SMELL SCAM ALL OVER THAT^^^
> 
> If any of the newer subscribers to this thread are interested in performance parts/tuning for your TDI, talk to Kyle (shortysclimbin) and Mark Malone (Malone Tuning).
> 
> Just lookin out for my fellow Diesel-heads!! :thumbup:


ha, ya, 4 posts doesn't garner much credibility for someone trying to mess with your ECU. Now he has to prove if he's legit :what:


----------



## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

I have a random question that I don't recall seeing the answer to.

For those who have DPF deletes, are you still continuing to use ESP formulated oil? Such as Mobile 1 ESP or the Castrol from the dealer?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

I am just running Mobil 1 5w30 full synthetic from wal-mart. No need for the other since u don't have to worry about clogging the dpf.


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Is the mobile 1 from walmart the correct 505.1 or whatever requirement the common rails take? I sure hope so


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

No one has done samples yet of there oil at oil change time to see if we can actually drop the oil type to cheaper oil... I would expect this to be the case. It would be great to get some samples from dpf cars and some with downpipes... I bet you will find the oil contamination are lower and this MAY allow us to use a different oil type.

PS- thanks for the vote of confidence of Mark and My Services! We try our best and have been doing it for a while being the first that is .


----------



## mhx (Nov 1, 2007)

So whats needed to do a DPF delete in a 2010 tdi jetta to do it 'right' and get no cels and disable regen cycle in the ecu? 

Whats the total cost? 

Anyone or shops or Tuners experienced in doing this near Houston, tx?


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

mhx said:


> So whats needed to do a DPF delete in a 2010 tdi jetta to do it 'right' and get no cels and disable regen cycle in the ecu?
> 
> Whats the total cost?
> 
> Anyone or shops or Tuners experienced in doing this near Houston, tx?


PM'd


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

mhx said:


> So whats needed to do a DPF delete in a 2010 tdi jetta to do it 'right' and get no cels and disable regen cycle in the ecu?
> 
> Whats the total cost?
> 
> Anyone or shops or Tuners experienced in doing this near Houston, tx?


I have the same question but in pa??


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

www.performance-diesel.com in USA and www.rawtekinc.com in Canada are mass-producing DPF delete downpipes. You can contact them for more information. They also can install ECU tunes that turn off DPF properly (no DPF fault codes, no CEL). Virtually all customers are reporting a 4-6 MPG gain from this, and most of them are running a strong Stage 2 tune too.


----------



## blackout2006 (Aug 14, 2010)

so this thread is over a year old from start to finish who all has done it? who can tell me its ligitmently worth it... worth it as in $ spent to $ saved in fuel. and what were some performance numbers on the dyno after the job was done?


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

blackout2006 said:


> so this thread is over a year old from start to finish who all has done it? who can tell me its ligitmently worth it... worth it as in $ spent to $ saved in fuel. and what were some performance numbers on the dyno after the job was done?


Here is a link for some dyno info:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5109101-CR-(2009-and-up)-Dyno-results-Thread

Dyno video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gULtk0b4vRA


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

GoFaster said:


> The DPF is indeed covered under the emissions warranty.
> And VW claims it will last at least 120,000 miles. There have not been a rash of premature failures (in fact, I have yet to hear of a single one), so that is most likely a conservative estimate as long as you use the correct ultra-low-sulfur fuel and don't go TOO crazy with the hot-rodding.


 Mine failed with 12k on the car lmao


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

shortysclimbin said:


> No one has done samples yet of there oil at oil change time to see if we can actually drop the oil type to cheaper oil... I would expect this to be the case. It would be great to get some samples from dpf cars and some with downpipes... I bet you will find the oil contamination are lower and this MAY allow us to use a different oil type.
> 
> PS- thanks for the vote of confidence of Mark and My Services! We try our best and have been doing it for a while being the first that is .


 I am just about due for my 50k oil change, and i was planning on sending a sample out anyway, so when that happens i will post the results. 

shortysclimbin, I believe i spoke with you on the phone a few months ago when i called Performance Diesel, and you were very helpful in answering all the questions I had about the downpipe and GTD exhaust. I am still trying to get together some spare change to order the parts, and of course the tune. 

I will let you know when i take a trip up to New Hampshire, hopefully I will have the downpipe in by then.


----------



## DHonovich (Nov 27, 2011)

Anyone running one on a 2012 tdi? I want to order a full exhaust and dpf delete on mine. 


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

Should be just like the one in the video here: 

http://performance-diesel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_6&products_id=32


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

DHonovich said:


> Anyone running one on a 2012 tdi? I want to order a full exhaust and dpf delete on mine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


 My downpipe arrived today. Got exhaust from PDE already. It's going on my brand new 2012 golf TDI.


----------



## Im Rondo (Dec 7, 2011)

AudiTTim said:


> My downpipe arrived today. Got exhaust from PDE already. It's going on my brand new 2012 golf TDI.


 
I was told buy Performance Diesel that Malone didn't have a for sure tune yet for the 2012 TDi. So I was assuming that they couldn't remove the regen until this was solved. Is this right or wrong? 

Want to order the pipe and tune but was going to wait till Aug. for an update.


----------



## Guack007 (Mar 1, 2004)

Its my understanding that you should not run without your DPF until regens are disabled for fear that that raw diesel could damage your exhaust and maybe some other components


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

Im Rondo said:


> I was told buy Performance Diesel that Malone didn't have a for sure tune yet for the 2012 TDi. So I was assuming that they couldn't remove the regen until this was solved. Is this right or wrong?
> 
> Want to order the pipe and tune but was going to wait till Aug. for an update.


 I talked to Malone and the tune for the 2012's came out this week. And yes. Don't run the car too much without the dpf delete programming. But you can drive it a little. Just get the tune ASAP. 

This came in for me today:


----------



## Im Rondo (Dec 7, 2011)

Who's pipes that? 

Looks well built.


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

Im Rondo said:


> Who's pipes that?
> 
> Looks well built.


 Rawtek. Those guys were great and this haus is WELL BUILT. Welds are amazing and quality is top notch.


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Does the Malone reflash allow you to still pass OBD II port scan emissions testing? I'm assuming all you need to do is not have a CEL and you pass correct?


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

AudiTTim said:


> Rawtek. Those guys were great and this haus is WELL BUILT. Welds are amazing and quality is top notch.


 Can you take a few pics and document the install when you put it in? :beer:


----------



## Im Rondo (Dec 7, 2011)

AudiTTim said:


> Rawtek. Those guys were great and this haus is WELL BUILT. Welds are amazing and quality is top notch.


 Thanks for the info.


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

Subaruski1 said:


> Does the Malone reflash allow you to still pass OBD II port scan emissions testing? I'm assuming all you need to do is not have a CEL and you pass correct?


 Yes it will pass without a CEL. In my state they only safety inspect diesels. No emissions.


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

Subaruski1 said:


> Can you take a few pics and document the install when you put it in? :beer:


 Maybe. I have my friend installing it for me so I'll ask him to take pics. He is a master mechanic and told me that he will need to drop the subframe to get the dpf out.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

I've heard you can do it without dropping the subframe. If you pull the pass side axle at the trans side and figure out some way to hang it out of the way, its possible. Just remember even if you just loosen the subframe, those bolts must be replaced.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

DankNugz said:


> I've heard you can do it without dropping the subframe. If you pull the pass side axle at the trans side and figure out some way to hang it out of the way, its possible. Just remember even if you just loosen the subframe, those bolts must be replaced.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


 He told me that's what VW claims, but it's not actually true. He said they told him they need to make a revision to that documentation lol


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

AudiTTim said:


> I talked to Malone and the tune for the 2012's came out this week. And yes. Don't run the car too much without the dpf delete programming. But you can drive it a little. Just get the tune ASAP.
> 
> This came in for me today:


 Awesome if i end up keeping my TDi i'd like to do this, let me know how it turns out.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

AudiTTim said:


> He told me that's what VW claims, but it's not actually true. He said they told him they need to make a revision to that documentation lol


 Were you talking about the subframe bolts or the dpf removal?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Gents, 


I highly do not suggest putting the hardware in until tuned. If you do this you run the risk of having a constant regen cycle happen that could potentially melt your bumper or worse. Do it right and get the tune first and then install the hardware. I know you want it all in, but trust me it is worth the wait and not risking the possibility of melting or catching something on fire. 

On the installation you do not need to drop the subframe to do it, although this may help if you have short arms and no lift. I have done plenty without dropping the subframe and only removing the inner passenger side axle. Also, as always make sure you antiseize your sensors for easier removal later down the line.


----------



## Guack007 (Mar 1, 2004)

shortysclimbin said:


> Gents,
> 
> 
> I highly do not suggest putting the hardware in until tuned. If you do this you run the risk of having a constant regen cycle happen that could potentially melt your bumper or worse. Do it right and get the tune first and then install the hardware. I know you want it all in, but trust me it is worth the wait and not risking the possibility of melting or catching something on fire.
> ...


 Great advice here... thank you :thumbup:


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

No problem. 

If you decide to go through Performance Diesel Engineering I can help you out on any other questions you may have. There are a few tricks to getting it done, although I would suggest having a lift to reduce the work needed to do it.


----------



## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

Still waiting for a mild stage one for stock dsg use or the combo of stage two and dsg tune. Any news on that yet from Malone?


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

yes, we have had a few great setups with stage 2 for a dsg, downpipe and dsg tuning.


----------



## Two . Slow (Aug 5, 2009)

AudiTTim said:


>


 man that thing is a beauty! :beer::thumbup:


----------



## Im Rondo (Dec 7, 2011)

So I'm putting things into place to do the delete.

Couple of questions.

Looking at the graph for the Malone tune all the power is at 2100 to 2300 rpm. It then drops off fairly quick. Reading this thread people are reporting the power band to stay on much longer. is this due to the down pipe with the tune? Is this graph not a good representation of the pipe and tune together? 

The difference between the stage one tune and stage two if just a few pounds. Why go with a stage two?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi,



Im Rondo said:


> So I'm putting things into place to do the delete.
> 
> Couple of questions.
> 
> ...


Which graph are you referring to? 

Mark


----------



## Im Rondo (Dec 7, 2011)

The one Here
I believe it's the same one on your site.


----------



## Guack007 (Mar 1, 2004)

On the stage 1 and 2 graphs above there is at least a ~10 HP gain from about 3400-4200 and that would be very nice. :thumbup:

Pardon my ignorance but what hardware are those graphs based on exactly?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Im Rondo said:


> Looking at the graph for the Malone tune all the power is at 2100 to 2300 rpm. It then drops off fairly quick.





Im Rondo said:


> The one Here
> I believe it's the same one on your site.


That dyno does not show the power dropping off after 2300 RPM. It builds all the way to around 3800 RPM and it does not drop off steeply until around 4400 RPM. It varies - if you're in a hot climate like in TX or if you have a very aggressive tune where you'll hit the EGT limit earlier, you may see the power curve drop off a bit earlier. 

What you were probably referring to is the torque curve, not the horsepower curve. Yes, the torque starts to drop off at 2300+ RPM and that is very typical of TDIs. We could lower the peak torque so the torque curve will appear flatter on paper. Its peak could extend to 3000+ RPM.. but then you'll have less torque.


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Jeez, does that stage II graph include the DPF delete?

I absolutely do not need to spend an extra $50 on the stage II tune and $750 plus install on the DPF just for 10 hp and 8 more ft/lbs over what the stage I reflash gives you...

That's easily over $1000 for astoundingly minimal gains vs the stage I


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Subaruski1 said:


> Jeez, does that stage II graph include the DPF delete?
> 
> I absolutely do not need to spend an extra $50 on the stage II tune and $750 plus install on the DPF just for 10 hp and 8 more ft/lbs over what the stage I reflash gives you...
> 
> That's easily over $1000 for astoundingly minimal gains vs the stage I ]



That Stage 2 dyno result was taken WITH DPF. The only modification was the Stage 2 tune, nothing else. This is the dyno video where this Stage 2 graph is based from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gULtk0b4vRA

Deleting DPF is not necessarily for more power, it's an alternative to an expensive DPF replacement or for those who want to gain 4-6 MPG.


----------



## Im Rondo (Dec 7, 2011)

Fuel millage and extra power are a plus. 

Im looking at this from a preventive maintenance point of view as well. 

If the turbo and motor can breath a little easier then this should prolong their life span.

Not that I won't try and spank some ones ass from stop light to stop light while there thing my little diesel is a turd.

My car only has 9800 miles on the clock. I don't turn vehicles over very often so im looking for this to last many years down the road.

Cant see much extra performance on paper with the stage two tune. Am I wrong?

I'm going to do the DSG tune as well.

My bad with the initial Power loss question. My brain malfunctioned and was reading th white doted line and the solid white line as HP and Torque


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

Im Rondo said:


> Fuel millage and extra power are a plus.


Totally agreed. That's exactly why i'm doing it. Lower EGTs are a huge plus too.




Im Rondo said:


> Im looking at this from a preventive maintenance point of view as well.
> 
> If the turbo and motor can breath a little easier then this should prolong their life span.


That's what I thought. Lower EGTs and backpressure will definatly have a good effect on that, but I spoke to my old diesel teacher (a diesel engineering genious imo) recently and he mentioned lower backpressure can be a double edged sword. He brought up the possibility of overspeeding the turbo to the point where the fluid bearing of oil breaks down due to lower backpressure causing it to spool way quicker than stock. He said by the time the wastegate kicks in it will already be spinning down from the overspeed, and the damage will be done. 

It also occured to me that maybe the VGT vanes could correct this problem through correct tuning, but im not sure on that one. Just food for thought.



Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Dank,

Note that is why we use 2.5" piping and give the VNT system some back pressure to operate. It allows the tuners to easily compensate for the extra flow without being overly aggressive for the turbo and turbo control system. If you go too large you end up having the turbo boost creep and then fueling and boost request must be tuned back. This reduces low end rpm hp and torque where the diesel shines and gets better fuel economy.


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

Shorty what is this for?










And can you explain the pros and cons of an EGR delete?


----------



## 1972SS454 (Oct 15, 2010)

^The above pictured part deletes the HP EGR valve that is bolted between the anti-shudder valve and intake manifold (pictured below). The HP EGR delete kit also includes a block off plate for where the pipe runs off the exhaust manifold. The HP EGR system is not filtered like the LP EGR system is, so it recirculates crud back into the intake. When i removed mine there was a solid 1/8 inch coating of crud on the valve and in the intake manifold. You can see the valve is also quite restrictive, so there was a notable change in responsiveness once it was removed. Optional tapped holes in the delete pipe can be used for boost gauge, water methanol injection, etc.

The only Cons are that you are removing emissions equipment. Also, possibility of slightly decreased fuel mileage. Will also need ECU tuned for EGR removal.


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

APR has release their CR tune, $500 currently.

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tdi_140hp.html


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Interesting.. I wonder how long the DPF will last with that much increase on a stock setup.. Others have had issues with aggressive tunes 40k miles down the road.. I hope others don't end up like this with APR. 

Some other things to note is the power and torque on that thing are really lumpy. So far the downpipes and stage 2 tuning has proven great reliability, fuel economy and a nice fat powerband. with LOTS of mileage on them.. We will see what that APR tune puts outs and compares as its not all in just the end number.. 

EDIT just noticed they are looking at block power not wheel power.. Silly me.. they should be ok as that is not too aggressive. stage 2 is still a lot more power output.


----------



## PDI (Sep 24, 2008)

I think you mean brake not block....


----------



## matt_g (Feb 4, 2012)

My car just crapped out on me yesterday morning so I am trying to hunt down a down pipe and mid pipe now


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

matt_g said:


> My car just crapped out on me yesterday morning so I am trying to hunt down a down pipe and mid pipe now


 Crapped out how? Clogged dpf?

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

Diesel performance and rawtek have downpipes I would recommend diesel performance talk to Kyle he was extremely helpful with mine


----------



## matt_g (Feb 4, 2012)

Got mine from rawtek yesterday


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

This is diesel performances Downpipe egr delete and kyle's cat back comes with the mid pipe as well ... looks like that resonator is massive on rawteks is it ?


----------



## matt_g (Feb 4, 2012)

Yeah it's pretty hefty. Haha. Built really really well though


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

That's all that matters haha


----------



## dhimarko (May 26, 2012)

GoldenNugget, how much did the egr delete and downpipe cost with the cat back and mid pipe


----------



## boostin20 (May 16, 2010)

Golden nugget, isn't that stuff you posted for a mk5?


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

dhimarko said:


> GoldenNugget, how much did the egr delete and downpipe cost with the cat back and mid pipe


Around 2200 with a stage two custom tune I'm putting it on the dyno on wednesday I'll post results. I had the stage one apr tune with everything else stock and I was seeing around 168 Hp and 274 tq


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

boostin20 said:


> Golden nugget, isn't that stuff you posted for a mk5?


Yeah it's for a 2.0 but Kyle has stuff for any of the tdi engines


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

Holly Smokes! Anyone looking for an exhaust supper ebay specials from Performance Diesel Engineering 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/performance-diesel/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

shortysclimbin said:


> Holly Smokes! Anyone looking for an exhaust supper ebay specials from Performance Diesel Engineering
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/performance-diesel/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686


 WOW! I might just have to use that as an excuse to buy my downpipe now...

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

shortysclimbin said:


> Holly Smokes! Anyone looking for an exhaust supper ebay specials from Performance Diesel Engineering
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/performance-diesel/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686


 What's up with those cams Kyle? CR?


----------



## Subaruski1 (Oct 22, 2010)

CRJSW said:


> What's up with those cams Kyle? CR?


 "This is the true race camshaft for the VW TDI VE engines" 

If you read it explains.


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

Subaruski1 said:


> "This is the true race camshaft for the VW TDI VE engines"
> 
> If you read it explains.


 Wow well thanks for quoting it for me, I could not load or see any description from my phones browser. 
Hey everybody! A typing Donkey! Haha!


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

Dyno results I switched from apr to the stage two malone with kyle's full exhaust and a CAI.
factory 131hp and 194tq


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

GoldenNugget said:


> Dyno results I switched from apr to the stage two malone with kyle's full exhaust and a CAI.
> factory 131hp and 194tq


 :thumbup: 

Do you happen to have the torque graph???

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

I do somewhere on a jump drive haha I'll find them and try to get them posted I'll also throw a link up from the video of my car on the dyno as well


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

GoldenNugget said:


> Dyno results I switched from apr to the stage two malone with kyle's full exhaust and a CAI.
> factory 131hp and 194tq


 I'm still not understanding why people waste their time on a company (like apr...) that hasn't invested in diesel technology in _years._


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

85_305 said:


> I'm still not understanding why people waste their time on a company (like apr...) that hasn't invested in diesel technology in _years._


 Keep in mind he still had the dpf installed with the apr tune...

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Thats very true... 

Even the curve looks better w/ the malone tune. I'm interested in seeing torque also.


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

I'll look tonight when I get home ... I think Malone is way better to work with then apr as well I have called and talked to Kyle and Mark Malone and they get right back to me good guys and if you tell them what you're looking for they will put you on the right direction and not try to sell you extra bs you don't need and spend money you don't have. 

As far as the tune itself goes I jumped on apr bs there is a dealer near my house and I was excited to tune my 2.0 so I bit and had it put in. Then come to find out that was as far as you could take the tuning and car they don't offer any custom tunes either. My check engine light was on for months even before I got the tune Bc of the LP egr valve. The dealer switched it out a few times I got a new dpf cat and Flapper and problem was still there. I called talked to Kyle explained what was going on. I bought the exhaust and tune car is perfect check engine light has been off since h20 and car runs perfect and has a ton of pull compared to stock and I've been averaging about 53mpg driving all week going to h20 I got about 57 which is way better then my 41mpg. Very pleased over all and I def recommend these two guys over apr any day.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

85_305 said:


> Thats very true...
> 
> Even the curve looks better w/ the malone tune. I'm interested in seeing torque also.


 Yes it does. I would like to know what's up with that dip in power at 75mph with the apr tune. HP vs speed doesn't really tell you too much. I would like to see HP and torque vs rpm to get a definitive answer on that.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

This is just what Kyle sent me so I had it on my phone lol I'll put the others up when I get home


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

DankNugz said:


> Yes it does. I would like to know what's up with that dip in power at 75mph with the apr tune. HP vs speed doesn't really tell you too much. I would like to see HP and torque vs rpm to get a definitive answer on that.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


 Agreed! Speed graphs are silly to me, but certainly better than nothing:thumbup:


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

GoldenNugget said:


> I'll look tonight when I get home ... I think Malone is way better to work with then apr as well I have called and talked to Kyle and Mark Malone and they get right back to me good guys and if you tell them what you're looking for they will put you on the right direction and not try to sell you extra bs you don't need and spend money you don't have.
> 
> As far as the tune itself goes I jumped on apr bs there is a dealer near my house and I was excited to tune my 2.0 so I bit and had it put in. Then come to find out that was as far as you could take the tuning and car they don't offer any custom tunes either. My check engine light was on for months even before I got the tune Bc of the LP egr valve. The dealer switched it out a few times I got a new dpf cat and Flapper and problem was still there. I called talked to Kyle explained what was going on. I bought the exhaust and tune car is perfect check engine light has been off since h20 and car runs perfect and has a ton of pull compared to stock and I've been averaging about 53mpg driving all week going to h20 I got about 57 which is way better then my 41mpg. Very pleased over all and I def recommend these two guys over apr any day.


 Yea apr told me that was all they had available when I was at Waterfest, and I decided to wait till I had the cash for the delete pipe and mark's tune. 

I had the same egr issues. The dealer replaced my dpf/cat assy and egr tubes/valves under warranty around 50k. Right after that I installed the catback from PDE, which deletes the sulfer cat, and I started getting insufficient flow and slow response egr codes, which I just attributed to the decreased back pressure from the sulfur cat being gone. Not sure if that is actually the cause or not, but im pretty confident that issue will go away after the dpf delete and tune. I still gotta give Mark a call on that one. 

Did you mail your ecu out to be tuned or did you bring the whole car for the install? I would love to see the rest of your dyno graphs. 

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

I sent my Ecu in it was about a three day turn around. And that's exactly what was going on with my car I called and talked to Kyle and like I said its been off ever since and it seems like a lot of money to put upfront but honestly I spend money on stupid **** and I dont regret the full exhaust and tune one bit.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

Yea im hoping to pull my ecu on a friday and mail it out, install the downpipe over the weekend, and hope to have my ecu back by the following Monday or Tuesday since I have to take vacation days off work since I wont have a car to use. Unfortunately, I only have 1 vacation day left for the year so it will have to wait till 2013. 

If your pulling in that good of fuel mileage, I would like to get this done asap since I did the math for the amount I drive and an increase of 5mpg and realized that this would pay for itself in 13 months. If I get anywhere near the mileage you are, it would be even sooner.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

Im wondering how many miles I would be able to drive without doing a regen till my dpf clogs up. Im taking a trip to NH for new years, which is very close to where PDE is located so it would be really nice if I could get the tune done while im up there and then drive it back and do the downpipe install.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## AudiTTim (Jun 30, 2008)

I went with Malone on my mk6 and used rawtek downpipe and exhaust. Highly recommended by me! Check out my YouTube videos.


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

GoldenNugget said:


> I sent my Ecu in it was about a three day turn around. And that's exactly what was going on with my car I called and talked to Kyle and like I said its been off ever since and it seems like a lot of money to put upfront but honestly I spend money on stupid **** and I dont regret the full exhaust and tune one bit.


 BTW, what kinda mpg are you getting average, city, and highway.


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

85_305 said:


> BTW, what kinda mpg are you getting average, city, and highway.


 I average around 50 mpg city when I went to h2o I made it from Indiana pa out near Pittsburgh to OC drove around all weekend and still made it home on a tank i got around 56-57 highway. But daily driving I get about 700 to 715 miles on a tank


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

And I got a heavy foot and like to roll a little coal out of red lights haha


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

GoldenNugget said:


> And I got a heavy foot and like to roll a little coal out of red lights haha


 How many miles are on your car and do you plan on upgrading the clutch anytime soon? I have heard the stock clutch doesn't hold up to much more torque over stock, so im a little concerned about doing the delete and tune without having 1200 bucks saved up for the south bend clutch SMF and stage 2 clutch kit that I wanna get when my clutch runs out. I can't afford to have any unplanned downtime with my car.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

Duplicate post. Stupid tapatalk


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

I have to say the most I ever have seen out of mine was 53mpg I consistently get 45mpg on the highway with 30-40psi in the tires. I have had the Malone stage 2 tune and DPF EGR delete and AFE CBAI for 50,000 miles now. Other guys I know get around the same. And no one has had any clutch issues yet and I know one is 70,000+ miles. I put right around 1000 miles a week on my car.


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

I have 32000 on my car didn't upgrade the clutch yet waiting till spring doing the clutch, turbo and bigger nozzles with a remap. I haven't seen under 49.5 mpg and I've have my winter tires on hankook ipikes 36 psi


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

GoldenNugget said:


> I average around 50 mpg city when I went to h2o I made it from Indiana pa out near Pittsburgh to OC drove around all weekend and still made it home on a tank i got around 56-57 highway. But daily driving I get about 700 to 715 miles on a tank


 Wow. These new CR cars are disgusting w/ deletes and tunes.. I've been hearing of these great numbers w/ deleted and tuned CR's. 



CRJSW said:


> I have to say the most I ever have seen out of mine was 53mpg I consistently get 45mpg on the highway with 30-40psi in the tires. I have had the Malone stage 2 tune and DPF EGR delete and AFE CBAI for 50,000 miles now. Other guys I know get around the same. And no one has had any clutch issues yet and I know one is 70,000+ miles. I put right around 1000 miles a week on my car.


 But you have the auto right? The other guy has a 6spd.


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

Nope I have a 6mt. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GoldenNugget (Feb 5, 2009)

DankNugz said:


> Im wondering how many miles I would be able to drive without doing a regen till my dpf clogs up. Im taking a trip to NH for new years, which is very close to where PDE is located so it would be really nice if I could get the tune done while im up there and then drive it back and do the downpipe install.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


 Get ahold of Kyle but you are able to drive with the tune installed and stock exhaust but he said he doesn't recommend it because it will clog your dpf but if you're like me I will prob never put it back on other then to maybe sell it do I didn't care anyways haha


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Nnot to derail, but what's the stipulations on dpf deletes in NYS? Can it be done? I've heard thru the grapevine that new diesels are being emissions tested... Dunno if true or not.


----------



## 16vdisturbance (Mar 30, 2008)

85_305 said:


> Nnot to derail, but what's the stipulations on dpf deletes in NYS? Can it be done? I've heard thru the grapevine that new diesels are being emissions tested... Dunno if true or not.


Grapevine is true.. need to know someone. 

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

85_305 said:


> Nnot to derail, but what's the stipulations on dpf deletes in NYS? Can it be done? I've heard thru the grapevine that new diesels are being emissions tested... Dunno if true or not.


It all depends how the tune affects emissions monitors. 

Maybe Kyle can elaborate. What happens to NOx, H2SO, and DPF monitors after the tune? Do they just disappear like the car isn't equipped with them at all or do they just come up as "not ready" for the rest of the life of the car? 

I live in PA, we don't have emissions on diesels, but I suspect they will be moving that way eventually. Hopefully when they do roll out emissions testing on them it will be from that model year on. Hopefully...

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Ya ny doesn't do emissions either but like I said I HEARD they were trying to sniff test diesels now. Whether that's an ecu-scan or its an opacity test or a visual I have no clue.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

85_305 said:


> Ya ny doesn't do emissions either but like I said I HEARD they were trying to sniff test diesels now. Whether that's an ecu-scan or its an opacity test or a visual I have no clue.


A sniff test probably consists of a 5 gas analysis and probably some sort of visual smoke test. If that's the case, there is no way of passing that when you compare to a stock cr tdi. 

Im going on the assumption that they will only do plug in OBD2 testing if and when they decide to regulate diesel emissions. That's how our neighbor nj does it. Just plug in, and as long as you have no CEL and have under the limit for your model year of "not ready" monitors and you pass. 

Also, here in PA many shops don't even have the equipment to run emissions sniff tests because you only need them for pre 96 cars and when older vehicles come in they can just ship the emissions sticker out to the shop down the road that has the old equipment. Im just saying it will be more of an expense for businesses to have to buy all the new equipment to run diesel sniff tests when they could just use the OBD2 system that is already in place for newer vehicles. So we can hope that the states decide not to impose more expenses on shops and just go with OBD2, since computers can be tricked and exhaust gas cannot.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Interesting if all they do is an OBDII systems check. That can all be programmed out via tuning. You don't think they'll do a visual for the dpf/cat etc?


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

85_305 said:


> Interesting if all they do is an OBDII systems check. That can all be programmed out via tuning. You don't think they'll do a visual for the dpf/cat etc?


Now that all depends who is inspecting your car. PA does require a visual even for diesels through the state safety inspection law but it all really depends on the shop. Even when just performing a safety inspection on an emissions exempt vehicle, technically the inspecting tech should do a visual to make sure that all emissions components listed on the under hood sticker are there. If your friend works at a shop, youll be good.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

OBD is forced ready and just know they can tell if its forced if they hook up to it.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

CRJSW said:


> OBD is forced ready and just know they can tell if its forced if they hook up to it.


I guess your talking about the tune?

If that's the case well, there goes that idea. All we can do then is hope that our states don't ever require emissions on 2011 model year diesels lol. 

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

So your saying right NOW NYS doesn't emissions test ANY diesels?


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

85_305 said:


> So your saying right NOW NYS doesn't emissions test ANY diesels?


I don't know what NYS does at all. Im just going off what I know PA and NJ does. Currently, PA does not require emissions on any diesel vehicles, but I have heard rumors that the state may start to require emissions testing on them and they may start that at the 2010 model year because of the epa standards that changed that year. 

I have a feeling diesel emissions testing is coming down the pike weather we like it or not, so all we can do now is hope that they will start testing at the model year when the testing becomes required (I.e. if they change the law in 2013, emissions testing will only be required on 2013 and up vehicles). Like I said, we can only hope.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## turbocharged798 (Apr 13, 2010)

Has anyone deleted the EGR crap and left the DPF? I am asking because I know the EGR makes the engine run rich which causes the DPF to soot up quicker requiring more regens and worsens fuel consumption. That's one of the reasons why the new passat gets such good FE is that it uses urea instead of heavy EGR to control NOx.


----------



## CRJSW (Aug 7, 2011)

You have to keep the LP EGR in order to maintain regeneration cycles. Seems if you get rid of the HP EGR you would just end up clogging the DPF even faster. EGR deletes take a MPG hit.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

turbocharged798 said:


> Has anyone deleted the EGR crap and left the DPF? I am asking because I know the EGR makes the engine run rich which causes the DPF to soot up quicker requiring more regens and worsens fuel consumption. That's one of the reasons why the new passat gets such good FE is that it uses urea instead of heavy EGR to control NOx.


As CRJSW said, probably not a good idea if your at all concerned about DPF longevity. There is no such thing as lean/rich on a diesel since they run at full air all the time. EGR actually works by inducing "dead air" into the engine (more or less a mixture of partially unburnt fuel and air with near zero oxygen content) which causes cyl temps to be lower which in turn lowers NOx output and also lowers fuel consumption due to burning the partially unburnt fuel that would have just went out the tailpipe.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

And the reason we don't use urea in the jettas and golfs is because of the weight of the bodies. Passats are so heavy they need urea to comply with emissions standards, golfs and jettas are lighter so they can get away with just a dpf and egr.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Pawelpdp (Dec 3, 2007)

DankNugz said:


> I don't know what NYS does at all. Im just going off what I know PA and NJ does. Currently, PA does not require emissions on any diesel vehicles, but I have heard rumors that the state may start to require emissions testing on them and they may start that at the 2010 model year because of the epa standards that changed that year.
> 
> I have a feeling diesel emissions testing is coming down the pike weather we like it or not, so all we can do now is hope that they will start testing at the model year when the testing becomes required (I.e. if they change the law in 2013, emissions testing will only be required on 2013 and up vehicles). Like I said, we can only hope.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


And where did you hear those rumors?

And as far as emission laws go, can state legally impose emissions testing on vehicles manufactured before the date that laws gets passed?


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

Pawelpdp said:


> And where did you hear those rumors?
> 
> And as far as emission laws go, can state legally impose emissions testing on vehicles manufactured before the date that laws gets passed?


Yes - and almost every emissions/inspection program inspects vehicles that pre-dated the date that the emissions inspection program started. After all, the older vehicles are (normally) responsible for the most emissions.

This is different from calling for a 1991 vehicle to meet 2013 standards. That doesn't happen. The 1991 vehicle will be called upon to meet 1991 standards.

Ontario has just changed from a sniffer/dyno test for gasoline vehicles and visual smoke check for diesels, to an OBDII check for 1996 and newer vehicles with the sniffer test kept for older vehicles. A visual inspection is part of the test.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

GoFaster said:


> Yes - and almost every emissions/inspection program inspects vehicles that pre-dated the date that the emissions inspection program started. After all, the older vehicles are (normally) responsible for the most emissions.
> 
> This is different from calling for a 1991 vehicle to meet 2013 standards. That doesn't happen. The 1991 vehicle will be called upon to meet 1991 standards.
> 
> Ontario has just changed from a sniffer/dyno test for gasoline vehicles and visual smoke check for diesels, to an OBDII check for 1996 and newer vehicles with the sniffer test kept for older vehicles. A visual inspection is part of the test.


:thumbup: 100% correct.

By the way, I know this because they have been talking and trying to regulate diesel emissions through inspections for years. Before, the case could be made that diesels are dirty and that's just the way they are, but now we have all of this technology built into our engines (more so than gassers in many cases) to make them "clean diesels" (which is really a relative term considering the emissions are still worse than any gasser in the NOx department) so im going with common sense here and saying that the EPA will eventually want to make these "clean diesels" stay "clean" over the long run by way of having them inspected just like every other car out there.

Sounds like what much of the US is doing. Plug in for obd2 and sniff for pre obd2 until you hit a cutoff date/circumstance for exemption. I just heard yesterday that there was a bill going through the PA legislature that would exempt vehicles less than 10 years old from any emissions requirements, except for a visual tampering check that is done during the safety inspection anyway. So that means if they passed that and if they required emissions on diesels soon, I would still be good for another 7 years with the dpf delete as long as I was friendly with whoever was inspecting my car .

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

^Interesting... thanks for the heads up man


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

When I get home, ill post the CJAA TDI service training manual I found. Its about 90 pages long and covers everything in our engines, and about half the pages in it are related to emissions devices. I was blown away when I read the section on how much engineering went into something as simple as the PCV system. 3 stages of oil separation before it even touches the intake...

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

85_305 said:


> ^Interesting... thanks for the heads up man


On a side note, it seems like many states are going that route with newer vehicles. Jersey exempts new vehicles 6 years old or less. Its just a way for the states to save money because the data out there points to the fact that most vehicles less than 8 years old will pass emissions simply due to the emissions warranty that the government requires auto makers to give us. Not the best idea from an environmental standpoint imo (my roommate said he had a 2011 hyundai come in with 25k on the clock that needed an o2 sensor), but it works out in our favor from a tuning standpoint so I can't really complain lol.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

This is the tdi manual that I found covering the 09+ Golf and Jetta engines. The Passat is similar but this does not mention anything about the DEF that is used in those. 

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BzCUtaSqUXj9c25pOGswNTdhNjQ


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Ya the passats don't need def


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

85_305 said:


> Ya the passats don't need def


Really? The dealer tech I talked to a while ago said they did...

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Ya they fall into a different class for some reason (cant remember the exact details) and they dont (yet) require def.


----------



## Pawelpdp (Dec 3, 2007)

85_305 said:


> Ya they fall into a different class for some reason (cant remember the exact details) and they dont (yet) require def.


Passat is heavier so just using DPF will not meet emissions.


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Pawelpdp said:


> Passat is heavier so just using DPF will not meet emissions.


But there's no DEF on the passat...


----------



## MXTHOR3 (Jan 10, 2003)

85_305 said:


> But there's no DEF on the passat...


There sure is, the fill tank is located in the trunk (passenger side)

This is the only way the Passat meets Tier II Bin 5 emission regs.


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

So there's no def on the regular jetta/golf tdi?


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

Golf/Jetta/New Beetle use a lean NOx catalyst which does not require AdBlue (aka diesel exhaust fluid).

Passat, and all of the larger TDI models, use SCR which requires AdBlue.

Passat and Jetta might both use a 2.0 TDI but they are absolutely not the same!


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

Ah so its reverse of what I said then... I knew that one or the other didn't use def. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## MXTHOR3 (Jan 10, 2003)

85_305 said:


> So there's no def on the regular jetta/golf tdi?


You got it.


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

^when you coming over for some pizza and wings dude


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

GoFaster said:


> Golf/Jetta/New Beetle use a lean NOx catalyst which does not require AdBlue (aka diesel exhaust fluid).
> 
> Passat, and all of the larger TDI models, use SCR which requires AdBlue.
> 
> Passat and Jetta might both use a 2.0 TDI but they are absolutely not the same!


Yea that's it. The motors are very close to the same but not exactly the same. Its all because the passat is heavier and therefore puts out more emissions than the same motor in a jetta or golf. I was very leary about buying a car with DEF when I looked into the mk6s and as soon as I found out the golfs didn't use it, I knew that's what I wanted.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Zagg (Jan 14, 2013)

Is there now a DPF delete pipe available for a 3.0 tdi?


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

*FV-QR*

I was hoping the delete would yield more MPG. 
Say I'm getting 45mpg now and 50 with the delete. That's a 10% improvement in efficiency. 
So just the exhaust work is $1000. 
After doing the math at 3.80 a gallon I would not see any return on the exhaust until I surpass 100k miles. 

please correct me if I am wrong as I would love to do this. but looks like a waste of time and money unless you want to be the fastest tdi around.


----------



## MXTHOR3 (Jan 10, 2003)

LO-vw said:


> I was hoping the delete would yield more MPG.
> Say I'm getting 45mpg now and 50 with the delete. That's a 10% improvement in efficiency.
> So just the exhaust work is $1000.
> After doing the math at 3.80 a gallon I would not see any return on the exhaust until I surpass 100k miles.
> ...


 If you're not going to run the car into the ground, then no it's not worth it.


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

*FV-QR*

So it is a solid 5 mpg increase nothing more nothing less? 
Chip does not help with that?


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

LO-vw said:


> I was hoping the delete would yield more MPG.
> Say I'm getting 45mpg now and 50 with the delete. That's a 10% improvement in efficiency.
> So just the exhaust work is $1000.
> After doing the math at 3.80 a gallon I would not see any return on the exhaust until I surpass 100k miles.
> ...


 I've seen deleted/tuned CR's getting 52-60mpg.... thats alh levels. 



MXTHOR3 said:


> If you're not going to run the car into the ground, then no it's not worth it.


 Agreed with ANY new car... 



LO-vw said:


> So it is a solid 5 mpg increase nothing more nothing less?
> Chip does not help with that?


 Air in, air out, lots of fuel =mpg. End of discussion. Chip= more air, more fuel, more mpg. Full deletes/exhaust=air out, more mpg. Bigger injectors= more fuel in a short window, more mpg. Bigger turbo= more air, more fuel utilization, more mpg with liberal use.


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

85_305 said:


> I've seen deleted/tuned CR's getting 52-60mpg.... thats alh levels.


 
Where can I read into more of this. I cant seem to navigate the tdi club too well finding anything on the newer tdi's


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

LO-vw said:


> Where can I read into more of this. I cant seem to navigate the tdi club too well finding anything on the newer tdi's


 Your not allowed to talk about anything that would violate emissions law over on tdi club. Your posts will get deleted. What kinda info you looking for?

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

LO-vw said:


> Where can I read into more of this. I cant seem to navigate the tdi club too well finding anything on the newer tdi's


 not one specific location, just kinda browsing around I noticed these things here and there. But believe me, the new CR's are disgusting when deleted and tuned. 



DankNugz said:


> Your not allowed to talk about anything that would violate emissions law over on tdi club. Your posts will get deleted. What kinda info you looking for?
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


 hah! for that matter, you cant talk about _anything_ they dont like over there!


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

LO-vw said:


> Where can I read into more of this. I cant seem to navigate the tdi club too well finding anything on the newer tdi's


 Malone seems to be the only tune out there that will get a DPF delete working without melting your bumper off when the car tried to do a regen. Rawtech and Performance Diesel Engineering are the 2 places I've seen that make the pipes. I recommend Kyle over at PDE, he is extremely helpful, accesible by phone, and can do the tune for you as well.



85_305 said:


> not one specific location, just kinda browsing around I noticed these things here and there. But believe me, the new CR's are disgusting when deleted and tuned.
> 
> 
> 
> hah! for that matter, you cant talk about _anything_ they dont like over there!


 Yea they deleted my whole thread as soon as I mentioned(accidentally) on road use for a dpf delete. If I was concerned about what's legal, I would be on a DOT or EPA law forum, not a VW or TDI enthusiast forum.

I believe disgusting is the right word. Go on youtube and search "tdi straight pipe" and look for the black jsw with a go pro camera aimed at the tailpipe. I believe that was made by toeball here on the vortex. On a side note, there's also a sick taureg v10 tdi with a full exhaust. I want one...

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 85_305 (May 31, 2008)

DankNugz said:


> Yea they deleted my whole thread as soon as I mentioned(accidentally) on road use for a dpf delete. If I was concerned about what's legal, I would be on a DOT or EPA law forum, not a VW or TDI enthusiast forum.
> 
> Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


 Exactly. Communists, I say.


----------



## MXTHOR3 (Jan 10, 2003)

Don't go full retard on TDIClub and you won't get banned.. 

(Or use your brain before posted about removing emissions equipment)


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

MXTHOR3 said:


> Don't go full retard on TDIClub and you won't get banned..
> 
> (Or use your brain before posted about removing emissions equipment)


 I wasn't banned, I have just been sour on that forum since my thread was deleted and I found out about that rule the hard way. I tried to skirt around it by putting disclaimers in my posts saying "***off road only***" but I slipped up once when someone asked me about inspections, and next thing I knew my thread disappeared. 

The vortex seems to embrace free speach while tdi club seems to want to be like china and censor it. 

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## turbocharged798 (Apr 13, 2010)

TDIclub is run on donations so they have no money to fight the EPA if they crack down on internet sites if it ever happens. Vortex is different as they have ad revenue and plenty of $$$. The owner of TDIclub(Fred) said himself that he put those rules in just to protect the site and he does not necessarily agree with them. 

If you want to talk about emission defeating on there, put up a bond and sign a contract saying you will be the one who pays to keep the site from being black holed if there is ever a lawsuit.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

turbocharged798 said:


> TDIclub is run on donations so they have no money to fight the EPA if they crack down on internet sites if it ever happens. Vortex is different as they have ad revenue and plenty of $$$. The owner of TDIclub(Fred) said himself that he put those rules in just to protect the site and he does not necessarily agree with them.
> 
> If you want to talk about emission defeating on there, put up a bond and sign a contract saying you will be the one who pays to keep the site from being black holed if there is ever a lawsuit.


 Good point. I spoke to a buddy I work with about it and he said that he heard that tdi club got into trouble for posts about removing emissions devices in the past, and that is why they have that policy. If that is true, it begs the question, why hasn't this been an issue for every other car forum on the net?

There's 2 reasons I don't see an issue with the few tdi enthusiasts that are out there that delete dpfs and cats. One is the fact that the cr tdi is an extremely clean diesel even without all the exhaust treatment that comes from the factory (cleaner than many stock older ve or pd tdis). Two is the fact that any extra emissions my car puts out is a small drop in a huge bucket of pre 09 big rigs and pickups that roll coal from every stop light and exit ramp out there.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## turbocharged798 (Apr 13, 2010)

The only thing I can think of is that because TDIclub is listed as a non-profit organisation and thus is more susceptible to EPA crack downs. Most all other online forums are profit businesses.


----------



## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

TDIClub.com is a privately owned forum based in Canada. The US Constitution does not apply there. Expect no more right to "free speech" there than you would in a stranger's living room. Put differently, if you wouldn't stand in front of a police officer and talk about illegal mods, then it's probably unwise to discuss them in an open forum where off-duty police may hang out, gov't chronies may read, and VW corporate warranty-killers are certainly watching. 

TDIClub.com is very careful about what's allowed to be discussed there because they cannot afford to defend themselves against a coward who chooses to blame the internet for their illegal mods instead of being accountable for their own actions. It only takes one slime to cause a lot of financial damage. Banning the discussion of illegal mods is likely good stewardship of supporters' donations.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

Stealth_TDI said:


> TDIClub.com is a privately owned forum based in Canada. The US Constitution does not apply there. Expect no more right to "free speech" there than you would in a stranger's living room. Put differently, if you wouldn't stand in front of a police officer and talk about illegal mods, then it's probably unwise to discuss them in an open forum where off-duty police may hang out, gov't chronies may read, and VW corporate warranty-killers are certainly watching.
> 
> TDIClub.com is very careful about what's allowed to be discussed there because they cannot afford to defend themselves against a coward who chooses to blame the internet for their illegal mods instead of being accountable for their own actions. It only takes one slime to cause a lot of financial damage. Banning the discussion of illegal mods is likely good stewardship of supporters' donations.


 Another good point. I did not know they were based outside the us. Between that and the fact that they are funded by doners, not ads, it definitely makes sense that they would do everything they could to avoid lawsuits and govt scrutiny. 

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

You folks may want to take THIS under consideration, when it comes to removal of emission control devices. 

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...0f84561e0cf2ab7f85257af6006c4dbd!OpenDocument


----------



## vw tdi guy (Sep 26, 2007)

Its not illegal to talk about anything period. :screwy: Do you really think epa trolls all of the auto forums they dont have the man power. Epa is just as ****ed up as any US govt office full of ass hats.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

vw tdi guy said:


> Its not illegal to talk about anything period. :screwy: Do you really think epa trolls all of the auto forums they dont have the man power. Epa is just as ****ed up as any US govt office full of ass hats.


 Yea, seriously. How many people on here are running intakes, test pipes, cams, turbos, and anything else you can think of that changes power? I am allowed to talk about whatever I want, at least on sites based out of the us.

If you put an aftermarket air filter on your car, technically, that changes your power output, which makes your factory emissions numbers invalid because they were based on factory power levels. That is called tampering with emissions devices and it is a felony, but how many people actually get that charge? Who can and when is that law enforced? 

The only time I have ever heard of someone running into the epa was a friend of mine who accidentally leaked fuel from his jeep when hitting a large rock on the fuel tank. Apparently, the agent followed the spill all the way back to their campsite and slapped him with a 10000 dollar fine. For leaking fuel that he didn't know was leaking. 

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## vw tdi guy (Sep 26, 2007)

DankNugz said:


> Yea, seriously. How many people on here are running intakes, test pipes, cams, turbos, and anything else you can think of that changes power? I am allowed to talk about whatever I want, at least on sites based out of the us.
> 
> If you put an aftermarket air filter on your car, technically, that changes your power output, which makes your factory emissions numbers invalid because they were based on factory power levels. That is called tampering with emissions devices and it is a felony, but how many people actually get that charge? Who can and when is that law enforced?
> 
> ...


 One of many reasons that tdiclub has gone down the toilet in my humble opinion.:laugh:


----------



## vfrmiller (Feb 24, 2013)

Hello everyone. Just found the site. I have been a member at TDIclub and glad I found this site. Do you guys know of anyone in San Diego that can do this work?

Thanks


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

You're in California, and you want to do this?

How do you propose to pass emission testing? It won't even get through the visual inspection!


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

What year is your vehicle and what part of San Diego?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## vfrmiller (Feb 24, 2013)

GoFaster said:


> You're in California, and you want to do this?
> 
> How do you propose to pass emission testing? It won't even get through the visual inspection!


Have a friend that does smog.


----------



## vfrmiller (Feb 24, 2013)

cmrnowlin said:


> what year is your vehicle and what part of san diego?
> 
> Sent from my sph-d710 using tapatalk 2


2012 a3


----------



## vfrmiller (Feb 24, 2013)

cmrnowlin said:


> What year is your vehicle and what part of San Diego?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


I'm in East County but willing to drive to Orange county as well.

Thanks


----------



## cmrnowlin (Aug 26, 2010)

Does that have urea(sp?) injection? 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

Audi A3 is same as Golf. Does not use AdBlue / DEF.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

vfrmiller said:


> Have a friend that does smog.



Yes, but you will be found and hung by that nut Diane Finestein :laugh:


----------



## asal (Oct 12, 2007)

vfrmiller said:


> 2012 a3


welcome


----------



## vfrmiller (Feb 24, 2013)

DankNugz said:


> Yes, but you will be found and hung by that nut Diane Finestein :laugh:


haha Yes, her Nancy, and all the other dems are very crazy here. They think they need to control everything!!! It's ridiculous expensive and out of control.


----------



## vfrmiller (Feb 24, 2013)

asal said:


> welcome



Thanks!


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

vfrmiller said:


> haha Yes, her Nancy, and all the other dems are very crazy here. They think they need to control everything!!! It's ridiculous expensive and out of control.


Don't get shot by that AR15 she likes to swing around at press conferences. People like that should know how to properly handle a firearm before being allowed to point it at the press to make a point. 

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM


----------



## shortysclimbin (Sep 27, 2005)

VFRMiller- Send me a PM I have some spare exhausts and downpipes I am clearing out now. When they are gone they are gone... I will not have anymore.


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

shortysclimbin said:


> VFRMiller- Send me a PM I have some spare exhausts and downpipes I am clearing out now. When they are gone they are gone... I will not have anymore.


What's the deal with the website? Shutting down for a little while?

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

While I can't speak for the original poster's actions, I'll just put this out there. (Not TDI related, but definitely exhaust / emission control related.)

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/02/12/motorcycle-news/vance-hines-to-pay-500k-fine/


----------



## Kwalsh24 (Aug 7, 2002)

Has anyone done this mod to their car in which the emission tests is the OBDII scan test? I did this mod to my car over a year ago, love it, however Ontario Canada just changed from the sniff/site view to the obdII scan test, which now has me kinda concerned that with the Malone stage 2 + dpf delete will cause my car to fail this new testing rules :-( anyone have results on their scan test? Not sure if any results are around as these cars are fairly new and perhaps nobody has yet needed to have them tested.


----------



## satx_pilot (Jul 26, 2012)

This is just one of a few places to register your vehicle out of state. 

http://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/montana-vehicle-registration.html

Set up a LLC. Your vehicle is owned by the LLC.

No annual inspections:

States without safety, emissions, or VIN inspections:

Alaska
Arkansas
Iowa
Kentucky
Michigan
Minnesota
Montana
North Dakota
South Carolina
South Dakota

I have a DPF delete and Malone Stage 2 (2009 Jetta with DSG.) I get a solid 38 MPG 100% City Driving (up from 34/35 before delete). I get 44 MPG at 75 MPH Highway (up from 38/40 before the delete). At 60-65 I have squeezed out 50 MPG for a road trip, but I typically don't drive that slow. Living in South Texas, I use the AC 9 months out of the year.


----------



## Goebel20AE (Sep 12, 2008)

Bought my downpipe and exhaust and the ECM tune from Shortysclimbin, decided to scrap the DPF when the turbo went 'bang" at 105K... this from a car that is driven by a 43 year old woman. I decided not to risk the new turbo by possibly reinstalling a bad DPF. One of the codes was a static pressure sensor, soooo was that a bad DPF or a bad sensor?!? Went with the only sure fire way and replaced the DPF with a down pipe, bought new sensors, replaced the turbo, and moved on with life. Happy so far. No codes, a little vvvrrrroooommmm from the exhaust, and I imagine a little better fuel economy as well, its just to early to say. Everything from Shortysclimbin was first rate, well packed, and shipped FEDEX. Glad to call him a friend. I owe him a steak and beer when he visits AL. !!:thumbup:


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

Goebel20AE said:


> Bought my downpipe and exhaust and the ECM tune from Shortysclimbin, decided to scrap the DPF when the turbo went 'bang" at 105K... this from a car that is driven by a 43 year old woman. I decided not to risk the new turbo by possibly reinstalling a bad DPF. One of the codes was a static pressure sensor, soooo was that a bad DPF or a bad sensor?!? Went with the only sure fire way and replaced the DPF with a down pipe, bought new sensors, replaced the turbo, and moved on with life. Happy so far. No codes, a little vvvrrrroooommmm from the exhaust, and I imagine a little better fuel economy as well, its just to early to say. Everything from Shortysclimbin was first rate, well packed, and shipped FEDEX. Glad to call him a friend. I owe him a steak and beer when he visits AL. !!:thumbup:


 You had a turbo failure at 105k? 

I got 93k on mine at the moment. My DPF was replaced under warranty at around 50k by the dealer. How did your turbo fail exactly? Were there any signs of impending failure? I have the PDE downpipe sitting in my garage, I just have not had the time to install or the cash foe the tune to get it done. I was also trying to save up cash for a clutch and SMF kit because I figure once I add power, one of those will be next. 

And yes, Kyle at PDE is a great guy. I am disappointed that he sold the company to someone else. I had a long talk with him over the phone, and he answered every question I could come up with about the delete and tune. Would recommend him to anybody.

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM


----------



## RATLWGN (Jul 31, 2012)

vw tdi guy said:


> Its not illegal to talk about anything period. :screwy: Do you really think epa trolls all of the auto forums they dont have the man power. Epa is just as ****ed up as any US govt office full of ass hats.


 ^^^AGREED. F*** the EPA. I can't wait to buy the Rawtec DP and straight 3" piping + MALONE-2. Should be within the next few months!  

And as for turbo's going out a local 2009 JSW owner buddy, (some of you probably know "rootrider") his turbo died last month at 122k...


rootrider said:


> Honestly.. at 122k miles, with about 60k of that on stage 1 software, and with as hard as I have driven the car, I'm not really surprised.


----------



## GLI_jetta (Jan 3, 2006)

who are you guys going through for a discount? Im confused on the screen names and who is who. I have about 71k on my 10 cr and on the highway around 75ish (sometime running 80) im getting 43-45. A few days ago I drove an hour away and set the cruise to 63 and my highest was 48. Granted there were more hills I was going down than going up but still. I think the combination of the dpf delete plus the malone stage 1 or 2 will bump the car over 50mpg highway at a reasonable speed.


----------



## grobinson2 (Jan 30, 2011)

*Help with pricing*

Hey guys,
I have a 2012 VW TDI Wagon Manual with 7k miles on it. I have a local guy in Red Lion, PA who is going to do my DPF delete and take the exhaust system off of the car for me. My question: Is the stock exhaust system worth anything? With only 7K miles on it I hate to just scrap it. Also who makes the best drop in replacement system?

Thanks again,
Glenn


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

grobinson2 said:


> Hey guys,
> I have a 2012 VW TDI Wagon Manual with 7k miles on it. I have a local guy in Red Lion, PA who is going to do my DPF delete and take the exhaust system off of the car for me. My question: Is the stock exhaust system worth anything? With only 7K miles on it I hate to just scrap it. Also who makes the best drop in replacement system?
> 
> Thanks again,
> Glenn


Yes its worth something. The DPF/Ox cat itself is worth 750-1000 brand new and I'm sure it has some good scrap value as well. Then you got the NOx cat, then the EGR exhaust throttle body, then you have the sulfur cat behind all that. So yes, there's some value there. Performance diesel engineering was who I would recommend, but they are changing ownership at the moment so you wont get anything from them. Rawtech makes a nice DP assy, and check with KermaTDI, they always have some good diesel parts. Your also going to need a tune to maximise the power increase and turn off the regen cycle since the DPF won't be there anymore. I live in Quakertown PA, and I haven't found anyone in this area that does it, so that probably means pulling your ECU and mailing it out for flashing to somebody like Malone, or KermaTDI.

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM


----------



## grobinson2 (Jan 30, 2011)

Thanks for getting back to me. It looks like my local guy is giving me a good deal on the exaust replacement then. So really all I need now is to find an outlet for the stock exaust. I will PM you the guy who does tuning in Red Lion if you want it.

Thanks again,
Glenn


----------



## 4ringkings (Oct 28, 2011)

*DPF Delete*

Thinking about running a group buy, with RAWTECH DPF delete and Malone tunes... pm me if interested


----------



## turbocharged798 (Apr 13, 2010)

Honestly wouldn't it be best just to gut the stock DPF and leave everything else in place? This way it looks totally stock and as long as the ECU reports its happy, it should pass emissions anywhere...


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

grobinson2 said:


> Thanks for getting back to me. It looks like my local guy is giving me a good deal on the exaust replacement then. So really all I need now is to find an outlet for the stock exaust. I will PM you the guy who does tuning in Red Lion if you want it.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Glenn


Yes, i would like his info. Local is much better than mailing my ecu out.




turbocharged798 said:


> Honestly wouldn't it be best just to gut the stock DPF and leave everything else in place? This way it looks totally stock and as long as the ECU reports its happy, it should pass emissions anywhere...


Definitely possible. It would of course still have to be pulled to do that, and you would still need a tune to get no CEL and to force readiness on the participate filter monitor. Plus you still need a dpf delete flash so you don't melt your bumper off when the car tries to do a regen.

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM


----------



## MXTHOR3 (Jan 10, 2003)

Any of you guys remove the flapper valve in the intake mani?


----------



## DankNugz (May 19, 2007)

MXTHOR3 said:


> Any of you guys remove the flapper valve in the intake mani?


You could, but its actually a good thing to have. It is in there to induce swirl into the intake air stream in order to get a more complete burn during low rpm/light throttle situations. It also helps with low end torque. It moves to full open position at high rpms and high load anyway, so I don't think removing it would even do ant good. Do a Google search for the CJAA self study training guide for techs and in the cylinder head section it explains how the swirl chambers work. If you can find it let me know because I have a copy on my PC.

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM


----------



## Jethro Bodine (Sep 14, 2013)

satx_pilot said:


> This is just one of a few places to register your vehicle out of state.
> 
> http://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/montana-vehicle-registration.html
> 
> ...


Also Georgia so long as you don't live in the counties that Atlanta has eaten.


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

*FV-QR*

How much diesel smell do you have after the dpf removal?


----------

