# Intake carbon/sludge buildup issue



## mr2guru (Oct 1, 2006)

It looks like we're in the same boat as the 2.0 TSI/FSI guys. Massive intake sludge buildup.

A fellow vortex'er who's 3.6 had the dreaded oil pump bolt issue, out of warranty btw, had his mechanic tear down his engine.... The mechanic noted to insane amount of carbon/sludge on his intake ports and valves. This is from a 2007 with 71k miles. 5000mi OCI.


























Now, I've torn down more than a few engines, some very high miles. I've never seen anything this bad.  Browsing through a bunch of TSI/FSI threads on the issue it seems the best fix is a catch can. To my knowledge, no one makes one for the 3.6? Does anyone have any insight on how we could install a catch can? I don't think Seafoam is going to fix this....


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

ALL FSI engines will do this as the fuel is direct cylinder not port injection so the fuel does not mix with the air/oil vapour to stop it collecting on the inlet/exhaust ports.


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## spitfire1 (Apr 28, 2008)

that is not a lot of carbon. that looks about normal for the miles


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## vwmaniac16vr6 (Nov 17, 2004)

I think it has to do with the extra degrees of exhaust vvt overlap that takes place of the egr function. The is upto 44 degrees of movement in the 3.6 as compared to the r32 or 2.8 24v which has 22 degrees. I was thinking of swapping the vvt ring from the older motor and retuning the exhaust cam when i write my flash so i can eliminate the extra overlap used for exhaust recirculation in the 3.6 motor.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You would need to use the matching cam as the centers are ground different between them. 

Saikou Michi might make you something if you ask nice. However the 3.6 sees full vacuum from the manifold and the can would need to be rated for that as well.


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## Mike_Fav (Jul 20, 2014)

Does anyone treat them periodically ? 

I only have 600 miles on mine, but figured I'd try some preventive treatment throughout. GDI seems like 
a manufacturers plan with the valves. 

I got CRC 05319 Intake Valve Cleaner and Liqui Moly 2033 Pro-Line Intake System Purge at Amazon. 

Thinking of treatment at first oil change and every other after ?


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Once I get my swap finished I plan to make a plexiglass flange/adapter that will allow me to use the BMW walnut blaster nozzle. 

I thought about doing water meth injection to deal with the carbon buildup but it doesn't stop or undo the buildup.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I would think WMI would do it if it's ON enough and higher methanol content.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

This is an easy fix:
1) Service Position
2) Remove manifolds
3) Walnut blast!!!
Worked like a charm for me. Have pics and a vid around here somewhere. 


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## Mike_Fav (Jul 20, 2014)

With less than 1000 miles still, I was hoping for a preventive maintenance approach before walnut shells.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Mike_Fav said:


> With less than 1000 miles still, I was hoping for a preventive maintenance approach before walnut shells.


Water meth injection


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## Minikeum (Mar 2, 2020)

Hi,

Digging up an old thread.

How hard is it to remove the intake manifold on a 2011 Passat VR6 3.6L ? 
I found that thread : https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...the-Intake-Manifold-and-Coilpack-on-a-12V-VR6
Is the job on a 3.6L much different?

I just crossed 100 000mi and thought about having a look and cleaning the valves. 

Also, while I remove the intake, is there anything to check/clean/replace while I’m at it?

Thanks!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Minikeum said:


> Hi,
> 
> Digging up an old thread.
> 
> ...


Definitely do a valve cover gasket while it’s off. 
And the pcv is built in to the valve cover and fails (My Atlas with 33k just failed). 
Some people have said you can find the piece and replace it. VW replaces the valve cover. 
If you’re going to put the car in to service position (which is recommended for a proper valve clean via walnut blasting) then replace many of your coolant hoses down there. They are very tough to get to with the front end on.


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## Minikeum (Mar 2, 2020)

Thanks for the info! 

I couldn’t find any walnut blaster adapter for the VR6. Any suggestion? I think I’ll use the good old chemical and elbow grease method though. 

Apparently the PCV diaphragm can be replaced. I’ll see if I can find one in Europe. Thanks for the tip!

I’ll have a close look at the cooling lines but I won’t replace them if I cant see anything wrong.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

I did my 2010 3.6 CC’s pcv diaphragm a few months ago. Here is the thread: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9391257-PCV-Diaphragm-Change-in-Valve-Cover-3-6-BLV-24V=


Here is the source for just the diaphragm: 

https://www.rkxtech.com/products/36-pcv-diaphragm


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## Minikeum (Mar 2, 2020)

*6OING!*

Thank you!

While the valve cover is off, Is there something to watch for with the timing chain? Guides? Tension? Timing?
The engine was produced end of 2010 so I should not have the typical problems of the early models (2007 i believe)


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## DbilasTDI (Nov 5, 2017)

Use an old radiator hose with a bend near the end. poke a hole for the blaster tube in the outside of the bend. The hose will seal up the port. Other end of hose to shop vac


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## Minikeum (Mar 2, 2020)

Just found nater post on cleaning his valves: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...Valve-Cleaning-(plus-modified-cats-trans-svc)
It is more involved than I thought, and I don’t think I’ll give it a try. My engine still runs well and I think trying this procedure myself is a bad idea.

I do find the power delivery a bit underwhelming for a 300hp engine, hence why I wanted to clean the valves. But again, I think I can only make things worse if I try the procedure by myself.

Thanks for the tips anyway!


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

I did walnut shells to clean mine, they came out looking brand new. If you haven’t torn the front end off a car before this job might be over your head because as Nater pointed out it’s complicated. 

Here is what mine looked like after and the custom toilet bowl pipe I used to get the rear valves clean: https://www.instagram.com/p/BbI0KO1FFvy/?igshid=1785ftm6gkx16


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Minikeum said:


> I do find the power delivery a bit underwhelming for a 300hp engine, hence why I wanted to clean the valves. But again, I think I can only make things worse if I try the procedure by myself.


Awd and automatic zaps the power delivered to the wheels



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## davidCSE (Jan 12, 2005)

*meh...*

If I found that much carbon at 71k miles, here's what I'd do about it: nothing. 

As I understand it, the reason why carbon deposits matter is the way the deposits disrupt the air flow over the intake valve, resulting in suboptimal dispersion of fuel/air mixture within. The amount of deposits I'm seeing here wouldn't have much, if any, effect. I'd button it up and drive along until 150K and check again. And still probably do nothing.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

davidCSE said:


> If I found that much carbon at 71k miles, here's what I'd do about it: nothing.
> 
> As I understand it, the reason why carbon deposits matter is the way the deposits disrupt the air flow over the intake valve, resulting in suboptimal dispersion of fuel/air mixture within. The amount of deposits I'm seeing here wouldn't have much, if any, effect. I'd button it up and drive along until 150K and check again. And still probably do nothing.


Yeah. Unless you had cold start misfires. Which is exactly why most people find this to be a huge problem. 
So, while your eyes tell you there’s no problem your ECU begs to differ. 


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

It starts sticking to the sealing surface and you get leakage. You can catch it in a leakdown test.


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## davidCSE (Jan 12, 2005)

*Retracting my ignoramus statement*

I really should do my research and not blurt things out like I'm an authority on anything. My engine knowledge gaps are wide, given my familiarity is with 30-year-old non-DI type engines with much different tolerances.

Please forgive my uninformed reply, and thanks for setting me straight.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

davidCSE said:


> I really should do my research and not blurt things out like I'm an authority on anything. My engine knowledge gaps are wide, given my familiarity is with 30-year-old non-DI type engines with much different tolerances.
> 
> Please forgive my uninformed reply, and thanks for setting me straight.


It’s not about setting anyone straight. It’s just about making it clear why certain things happen in these engines. 
I now get loads of cold start misfires on my 2015 CC. I kept them at bay for almost a year by doing seafoam and equivalent. But it’s not good enough. 
And yes, my first inclination is to hit WOT and burn the carbon out. I wish it was a 30 year old non-di engine! 
All good man! Totally!


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