# reliable awd turbo cars?



## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

Currently I have a 01 gti vr6 turbo and as fun and fast as it is front wheel drive won't cut it for Seattle winters, especially for the amount of snowboarding I do up in the mountains. I now want to get an awd drive car that is turboed and reliable so I need some suggestions. This might be getting a little out of the topic of vw's and audi's but I'm not sure where else to post.. I want something I can take to the track, mod, reliable, and fast







my current thoughts are:
- 00, 01 audi s4: seems though that the engine loves to leak and have problems
- 97-98 volvo v70R: love the 2.3l inline 5 and with a some ecu upgrades with a 18t or 20g its pretty dam fast.
- Evo 7 or 8: great looking thing but I understand that reliability can be an issue which is why many move up half a liter to the sti
- 04-05 sti: best choice I think so far with the wide selection of mods and tranny's ability to handle double what stock throws at it. If anyone as input at sti vs evo that would be helpful
lets ignore price range for now but try n keep it under 20k. Thanks guys for the input.


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## litesleeper (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*

The sti weakness has been maf( do not use K&N) and transmission failure due to differing tire diameter ( uneven tire wear or inflation).
My brother in law works at Select Subaru, these were the main issues in their service dept.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*

evo 8, no question.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*

Audi TTq


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## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (litesleeper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *litesleeper* »_The sti weakness has been maf( do not use K&N) and transmission failure due to differing tire diameter ( uneven tire wear or inflation).
My brother in law works at Select Subaru, these were the main issues in their service dept.

really even the sti has tranny problems? I know like the wrx (02-03) has glass trannies because they aren't even oil cooled.. 
evo's great but like i said im not sure about reliability. When I think of a 2.0 liter engine with 270+ hp it sounds nuts. especially when I am thinking about upgrading.
Audi ttq 1.8t is slow, the 3.2's pricey.
Figured out volvo's awd system on the v70r is a joke
So I'm starting to lean back towards a B5 S4 biturbo.. any thoughts on it?
If only a mk4 R32 biturbo was affordable


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clifborder4fm* »_

So I'm starting to lean back towards a B5 S4 biturbo.. any thoughts on it?


money pit. dont be surprised if you spend more on maintenance the first year, than you did to buy the car.


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## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
money pit. dont be surprised if you spend more on maintenance the first year, than you did to buy the car.

dam ur right i forgot someone told me it can be up to 5k in a year.. and in the 2.7t forum all I see is oil leaks and bad problems.. 
after all the input and thinking it seems like the best route will be a bmw 325xi and turbo it


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clifborder4fm* »_
after all the input and thinking it seems like the best route will be a bmw 325xi and turbo it









garbage all wheel drive system.


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## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (TBT-Syncro)*

really? dam.. k well I feel like if I perform regular maitenence on the audi I would be ok.. looks like its going to be s4 or sti though..we'll see


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clifborder4fm* »_
Figured out volvo's awd system on the v70r is a joke
?


Why?


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## jurnimon (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (Norwegian-VR6)*

I would go with a 2006 WRX/saab 92-x as the most reliable AWD power. also the Subaru Legacy B.Spec is not too shabby. In general, Subaru makes the most reliable cars that are AWD.


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## XR4Tim (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (Norwegian-VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Norwegian-VR6* »_
Why?

Ditto. 
For your price range, I would look to the '04-'07 S60R/V70R. The AWD system is more advanced, they carry more power, and they can be had with a 6-speed manual.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clifborder4fm* »_Currently I have a 01 gti vr6 turbo and as fun and fast as it is front wheel drive won't cut it for Seattle winters, especially for the amount of snowboarding I do up in the mountains. 
I want something I can take to the track, mod, reliable, and fast







my current thoughts are:

really? ive never had an issue getting fwd vws up to the mountaings...
get some snow tires for your gti, and a limited slip... 
as for seattle winteres







thats pretty funny.. you can drive your car in the rain, im quite sure of that.
not like the roads to the mountains in your area are ever covered in multiple feet of unplowed snow. all you need are some decent tires and youre set.
as for taking it to the track and modding it... well... keep your gti, and get some drag rubber


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## litesleeper (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (ValveCoverGasket)*

I understand the preference for AWD. True that good snow tires are adequate for most winter driving. My wife's fwd did fine last year even with the 93+ inches we got here. However she now wants an Avant and frankly I can't stand front drive wheel spin or steering torque. 
The c4 Audis have been some of the sturdiest systems on the road. The STI would probably be the best bang for the buck for a turn key car.
Good luck.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (litesleeper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *litesleeper* »_I understand the preference for AWD. True that good snow tires are adequate for most winter driving. My wife's fwd did fine last year even with the 93+ inches we got here. However she now wants an Avant and frankly I can't stand front drive wheel spin or steering torque. 


the difference is seattle gets 3+ inches per year.... for maybe a day or two


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_
really? ive never had an issue getting fwd vws up to the mountaings...
get some snow tires for your gti, and a limited slip... 
as for seattle winteres







thats pretty funny.. you can drive your car in the rain, im quite sure of that.
not like the roads to the mountains in your area are ever covered in multiple feet of unplowed snow. all you need are some decent tires and youre set.


ever driven the road to Baker after a snow storm? to say its gnarly would be an understatement.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
ever driven the road to Baker after a snow storm? to say its gnarly would be an understatement.


many many times... in fwd cars with all season tires. i live about an hour from baker


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_

many many times... in fwd cars with all season tires. i live about an hour from baker









great drive. love doing it in the summer time (all over watcom and chukanut counties).


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
great drive. love doing it in the summer time (all over watcom and chukanut counties).


for sure
i commute to work on chuckanut most days in the summer. awesome drive http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (ValveCoverGasket)*

Haha I love Baker but haven't taken my car up there yet.. Did fine in the snow at stevens a few weeks ago to! (first one down the backside for the season







) I also have the spider spike chains that you bolt on to your wheels, they are pretty nuts. But like in addition to the snow and mountains, at the track I just spin even in 2nd and 3rd (autocross)







I know alot of that's on me, but..at track days if you hit those turns to fast and accelerate through them at the wrong time your done.
Its lookin like I'm guna get the b5 s4... but the vr6 has been the best engine I've ever worked with







if only we could get the SEAT Leon Cupra in the states..


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## BONES-337 (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*

planning on picking up a wrx with an sti swap early next year...what was ur final decision?


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## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (BONES-337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BONES-337* »_planning on picking up a wrx with an sti swap early next year...what was ur final decision?

Ya I just found a craigslist add in my area for a wrx w/ ej25 swap.. pretty sweet, too bad it costs as much as an sti







but I think im goin with the s4 biturbo. Swap in RS4 turbos, ecu flash, intake, exhast, and meth injection. Plus always loved how much car you get for your money with vw and audi with seat warmers, sunroof, leather...


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## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (XR4Tim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XR4Tim* »_
Ditto. 
For your price range, I would look to the '04-'07 S60R/V70R. The AWD system is more advanced, they carry more power, and they can be had with a 6-speed manual.

I love the s60R but I'm still not sure about taking it over the audi.. but I this video fixed that decision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUQDmF3viOE
pay special attention to the last 4 seconds of the video








and for why the late 90's v70R's awd system is so crappy... 90% power to the front 10% to the back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyLgYskj-oc
seems like a pointless system thats a waste of money.. if it was 50/50 or 40/60 that would make it a hell of a car! 
speaking of 40/60 I was also cosidering a jaguar x-type but not sure I like the ford side of it.. would be fun to turbo or supercharge one though







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6SnKJPzR80


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clifborder4fm* »_ But like in addition to the snow and mountains, at the track I just spin even in 2nd and 3rd (autocross)








I know alot of that's on me, but..at track days if you hit those turns to fast and accelerate through them at the wrong time your done.









that sounds like its a driver issue


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clifborder4fm* »_
and for why the late 90's v70R's awd system is so crappy... 90% power to the front 10% to the back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyLgYskj-oc
seems like a pointless system thats a waste of money.. if it was 50/50 or 40/60 that would make it a hell of a car! 


same as a TT or R32, or syncro. 
once there is wheel spin in the front, it goes up to 50/50


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## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
same as a TT or R32, or syncro. 
once there is wheel spin in the front, it goes up to 50/50

you saw the video though.. it stayed 90/10 nothing to the back wheels up a little dirt hill..


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*FV-QR*

evo better than sti for sure evo is relaible but is a gas hog but so is the sti.Evo can make more power cheaper and can make 500 awhp stock block i know this cause 5 of my friends have 3 evo 8's and 2 evo 9's and the sti's are harder to work on and make less power for more money and 3 of my friends have sti's i am the only R32 lol


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## clifborder4fm (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (newcreation)*

Turbo the R32







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjgaxdl-z-g
one of my favorite youtube vids of all time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (clifborder4fm)*

mine used to be supercharged nothing compared to a turbo R


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## VW Acolyte (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (litesleeper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *litesleeper* »_
The c4 Audis have been some of the sturdiest systems on the road. The STI would probably be the best bang for the buck for a turn key car.
Good luck.








 I would same the same thing about the Audi's. You want a great reliable car, with a great engine, get a Ur-S4/S6. the S4 is from like 91-94 and the S6 is from 95-97. Exact same car either way, with maybe minor differences. Turbo 56 cylinder just like in the Ur Quattros, and basically the saem engine used by Dahlback in most of his cars. Their trans/quattro systems are damn near bullet proof. to top it off, they can be had very cheap. I'm looking to get one soon and i have seen them going from a max of $7500, and in very good condition.


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (VW Acolyte)*

not reading all of this but I have a 2000 B5 S4, and its BY FAR, been my most reliable car ever owned. True I did have a K04 blow out on me, but the car still drove. I cracked my heater core removing the engine, but the car still started and drove. I've done 20+ 5500 RPM launches no problem. Everything that has broken has been because of my lack of patience. I'd take a solidily built Audi over the tin can EVO (straight line car) any day.


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (Zupek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zupek* »_ I'd take a solidily built Audi over the tin can EVO (straight line car) any day. 

j/w
You'd take the audi over the evo as a straight line car? Or the evo is a straight line car?
It does sound like you replaced your own k04 after it blew. That is a very, very expensive job if you don't have the mechanical aptitude to do the labor yourself. Just a thought as I agree s4's are reliable. Replacing turbos and general maintenance on a s4 is considerable more expensive than some other cars on the list. Important stuff to look at when buying an s4. Of course most, if not everyone here knows this.


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (akauf)*

Its more important for me to have a car that is built well then to have a car that works. That's what I was trying to get across. While the evo does go fast in a straight line, I feel unsafe while driving and while riding in it. I had a friend going 100+ hit the barrier on the express way, bounce back and get hit by a semi and everyone in the car (there were 4 people with the driver) came out just fine. I don't have that faith in an evo or an STI for that matter.
And yes I do work on my own stuff. I blew my k04 cause i used an MBC on it(which was stupid) and i've done all my own work. But if I didn't have that skill set, you are correct the S4 would be might expensive to fix.


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (Zupek)*

yeah, exactly what I thought you were saying. The evo did have a lowly 2 star crash rating and it wasn't even built in 2007 as it didn't meet the updated safety requirements.
What I was inferring is that you brought up, specifically, the evos straight line capabilities. I just wanted to note that the evo's handle is on par if not beyond it's straight line abilities.
As you said though. You buy an evo or sti if you want a "race" car, so to speak. You buy a s4 if you want a show car, so to speak.


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## litesleeper (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (akauf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *akauf* »_ You buy an evo or sti if you want a "race" car, so to speak. You buy a s4 if you want a show car, so to speak.

I would get the evo/sti for the track, I would rather drive home in the S4.
Not for show, but for arrival/survival.


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## rissa422 (Jan 17, 2009)

edit: this is akauf, apparently when I leave the website and come back it switches back to this account.
I stop to look at s4's everytime I see one for sale. I really like the added luxory but i drive one and then get back in my evo and realize the evo is what I really want. It just feels right. The luxory and smooth ride is nice but in the end driving the evo is like taking the condom off. Such a positive feel and feedback from the road.
The s4 is too expensive to mod as well and your not going to lose any weight as the dead weight in the car is why most people have them, saftey and comfort.
Awd and turbo have always been two hints I look for on a vehicle. S4, evo and sti are on the top of the list. I've looked at all three time and time again from every angle I can come up with and I regularly drive all three. I still have an evo and at this time it still wins out easily against the others. I feel this is the only way to decide what you really want and to assure yourself that you have what you want.
On topic though, these are all reliable cars but op if your lookig to mod as you menioned you should think long and hard at cost, results and post mod reliability. 




_Modified by rissa422 at 1:02 PM 12-19-2009_


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (rissa422)*

I am also a bit biased as I used to work for a race team and have seen just how great champion's audi's were built. While its far from a stock s4, their handling has always been top notch. Any AWD car is tricky to get balanced right, but once you do (to whatever the driver likes) its a horse apiece.


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## XR4Tim (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clifborder4fm* »_
I love the s60R but I'm still not sure about taking it over the audi.. 

The only reason I'm putting it above the B5 S4 is reliability.


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (XR4Tim)*

You are putting Volvo ahead of Audi for reliability?! what you talking about willis!


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## XR4Tim (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (Zupek)*

The B5 S4 is generally not bad, but a few of the more common problems include:
Clutch
Turbos
Coolant Afterrun Pump
PCV system failures
None of which are particularly cheap or simple fixes.
I'm not aware of too many common problems with the newer S60R/V70R.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (XR4Tim)*

B5 1.8T A4 is probably the best car for the money in that category. hell, you could drop $4G in to it, and have a 400hp all wheel drive car.


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## VW Acolyte (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (TBT-Syncro)*

yeah, then spend $8K replacing the motor


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (VW Acolyte)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW Acolyte* »_yeah, then spend $8K replacing the motor









no reason to spend that. the 1.8t are really reliable. all you need is some drop in rods, and a good tune.


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (TBT-Syncro)*

Like I said, my b5 s4 has been reliable as heck. No broken f hoses (as its 2000 and doesnt have the 5 hose). no bad DV's, no bad coil packs, no bad afterun pumps. Everything that has broken on it has been my own fault.


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## pimpbot (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: reliable awd turbo cars? (clifborder4fm)*

I'm missing something here....
You say you want a reliable car, but want to slap an aftermarket turbo on a VR6?
Why not go with a 2.0t A4 audi and chip it, or a 3.0 V6 with quattro and don't try and lay rubber up every on-ramp. 
I know, not as fun, harder to impress the chix. IMO, if you drive a car that hard, you're going to have reliability issues no matter what brand you get.
If you are saying you want the best AWD system, Audi Torsen based systems or Subie Symmetrical have it locked. Really engaged full time AWD, not this crap that kicks in after the wheels already broke loose and its too late. 

_Modified by pimpbot at 11:38 PM 12/29/2009_


_Modified by pimpbot at 11:40 PM 12/29/2009_


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