# TT RS on track - Some help?



## mremg (May 10, 2015)

I took my beloved TT RS to Streets of Willow Springs last week. It was my first track experience, so I was a little cautious. It took me a while to figure out the racing line and other basics I'm still a noob so couldn't quite push it to the limits, but I did learn many things. I did 36psi front and 34 psi rear cold and turned off the ESP sometimes. The car felt like it turns better with the ESP off but I'm not so sure. I didn't use the sport mode as I'm not used to it's throttle response. 

One of the exercises was to make the car spin on the skidpad with throttle induced oversteer on a tight circle. I wasn't able to spin no matter how hard I tried it (even w/ ESP off). To be fair, none of the modern cars that day were able to spin easily. Another thing I've noticed on the skidpad driving in circles - understeer. Every car in the session understeered, but the TT started understeering way earlier. Even the instructor was a bit surprised. 

I also drove gf's Miata on the track and it definitely feels more 'lively' on the track and turned sharper. I plan on tracking often this year and I'm wondering if anyone out there have some tips to make the TT RS more fun on the track. I'm running everything stock right now. I don't want to get any power mods/tunes as I'm quite alright with the stock power. But any handling/suspension tweaks are welcome. Any other general tips about tracking are welcome too! Thanks.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

alignment - get as much front camber as you can. i just did mine today and ended up about 1.8 which is ballpark for stock suspension with non-adjustable hats. you can go less camber on rear to help get the car to rotate. you could also put in a bit of front toe-out which will help turn in but for a daily driver that hits the track a couple times a year it's not worth the tire wear.

rear sway bar - this will help the car rotate a bit more, reducing understeer

rear trailing arm bushings - this will help tighten up the rear end and get rid of that "swimmy" feeling when hitting bumps mid corner.

play more with pressures. you can push a bunch of pressure into the rear which basically "crowns" the tire, reducing contact patch. not ideal since you really want to get balance by getting more front grip rather than reducing rear if possible. sometimes it's not without doing major modifications to suspension components or even geometry. most all of these paths are making less grip in the rear but that's usually the compromise you have to make to get a car to rotate and not just plow though a corner.

you could also go with an mss adjustable spring kit. get the car corner balanced, always nice to start with a clean slate. then once you're at the track you can add a bit of rear ride height which will also get the car to rotate.

bottom line is you'll always be fighting the 60/40 weight distribution of the car. that's a lot of car over the nose. it helps in some cases but not in most.

just my opinion and i'm sure there are others here that have some solid ideas as well.
hope it helps


edited for some clarification...


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## mremg (May 10, 2015)

smack_ttrs said:


> alignment - get as much front camber as you can. i just did mine today and ended up about 1.8 which is ballpark for stock suspension with non-adjustable hats. you can go less camber on rear to help get the car to rotate. you could also put in a bit of front toe-out which will help turn in but for a daily driver that hits the track a couple times a year it's not worth the tire wear.
> 
> rear sway bar - this will help the car rotate a bit more, reducing understeer
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips. Will look into the MSS Springs and getting a track alignment. Also, will change the tires to Michelin PSS. I agree about the weight distribution. I've never felt it until I took it to the track.


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## trichards69 (Feb 8, 2012)

*couple things....*

I drive streets quite often in my TTRS here's what has made the difference to me: 
-Max out front wheel camber. zero out rears 
-32psi cold fronts 35 rears 
-rear sway bar ( this makes a HUGE difference ) 
-haldex controller !!!!!!!!!( also very noticeable difference when pushing car ) 
-mss kit or any kind of suspension mods 
-tires (stock tires are garbage on that track. ice skating understeer)


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## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

mremg said:


> I took my beloved TT RS to Streets of Willow Springs last week. It was my first track experience, so I was a little cautious. It took me a while to figure out the racing line and other basics I'm still a noob so couldn't quite push it to the limits, but I did learn many things. I did 36psi front and 34 psi rear cold and turned off the ESP sometimes. The car felt like it turns better with the ESP off but I'm not so sure. I didn't use the sport mode as I'm not used to it's throttle response.
> Ballpark for hot tires is 40 psi. You need to check this as soon as you come off the track. I start with 31F, 33R on Mich PS2's. Standard alignment. Leave ESP ON SPORT MODE ON. Sport mode makes suspension adjustments as well as throttle. You just need to get used to it.
> 
> One of the exercises was to make the car spin on the skidpad with throttle induced oversteer on a tight circle. I wasn't able to spin no matter how hard I tried it (even w/ ESP off). To be fair, none of the modern cars that day were able to spin easily. Another thing I've noticed on the skidpad driving in circles - understeer. Every car in the session understeered, but the TT started understeering way earlier. Even the instructor was a bit surprised.
> ...


Biggest upgrade to the car will be a Haldex race controller and rear sway bar. You may not want to get a Tune, whether budget or warranty worries. But a Tune will get rid of the stupid throttle issues when put in sport mode. Also you probably are shifting way to much and not running the car through the rev range, its a common mistake from beginner drivers.

Did you run with Audi club or another HPDE organization? After having run with different groups. If you want real instruction on driving technique as a beginner track driver. I'd highly recommend driving with an Audi club. Its a whole different experience.
A bone stock TTRS is highly capable. I've seen these get flogged by quality drivers and the only thing that was changed was track pads and sticky tires.

Just my .02


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## trichards69 (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh yeah: BRAKE FLUID AND UPGRADED LINES !!!!!!!!


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## mremg (May 10, 2015)

Thanks for the responses guys. 



trichards69 said:


> I drive streets quite often in my TTRS here's what has made the difference to me:
> -Max out front wheel camber. zero out rears
> -32psi cold fronts 35 rears
> -rear sway bar ( this makes a HUGE difference )
> ...





Not4show said:


> Biggest upgrade to the car will be a Haldex race controller and rear sway bar. You may not want to get a Tune, whether budget or warranty worries. But a Tune will get rid of the stupid throttle issues when put in sport mode. Also you probably are shifting way to much and not running the car through the rev range, its a common mistake from beginner drivers.
> 
> Did you run with Audi club or another HPDE organization? After having run with different groups. If you want real instruction on driving technique as a beginner track driver. I'd highly recommend driving with an Audi club. Its a whole different experience.
> A bone stock TTRS is highly capable. I've seen these get flogged by quality drivers and the only thing that was changed was track pads and sticky tires.
> ...


I will right away look into a new set of tires and the sway bar. Down the line, I'll look into the Haldex controller, alignment and MSS springs. Also, I didn't run with Audi club. It was a different marque HPDE club. I'll definitely get into an Audi track event next time around. Already signed up for ACNA membership.

Shifting gears - Yeah, I was doing that initially, but later I was just mostly in 3rd gear and revving the engine high. 



trichards69 said:


> Oh yeah: BRAKE FLUID AND UPGRADED LINES !!!!!!!!


Can you explain what Upgraded lines are? Not sure I understand.


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## trichards69 (Feb 8, 2012)

Upgraded brake lines. the stock lines are not up to the task of repeated hard braking temps. Your brake fluid should be something along the lines of Motul 600 or the like. I'm actually doing a track day at Streets Of Willow end of March with Extreme Speed ( i think ) if you are there you can lap my car for a few and see the difference some of these mods make.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

mremg said:


> I didn't use the sport mode as I'm not used to it's throttle response.


Put it in sport mode. The throttle response is very helpful for downshifting and the chassis is entirely different with the dampers in the stiff setting. The rear end is much less lazy and the car as a whole feels much more predictable. I did my first couple of track days in normal mode and it was far better once I switched to sport. And that was before I had done MSS or anything else.

Otherwise as others have said the alignment is critical for dialing out understeer.

I would start with those two things and then consider a rear bar or stiffer springs. Personally for me I've never had an issue with getting the car to rotate on track so I don't see the need for a stiffer rear bar. I'm also not convinced the Haldex controller would make that much of a difference on track. The MSS Sport kit was definitely worth it though.


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## mremg (May 10, 2015)

trichards69 said:


> Upgraded brake lines. the stock lines are not up to the task of repeated hard braking temps. Your brake fluid should be something along the lines of Motul 600 or the like. I'm actually doing a track day at Streets Of Willow end of March with Extreme Speed ( i think ) if you are there you can lap my car for a few and see the difference some of these mods make.


Thanks for the generous offer. I just looked at Extreme Speed and looks like the March Event is at Big Willow not Willow streets. Are you sure you're running with Extreme Speed?



JohnLZ7W said:


> Put it in sport mode. The throttle response is very helpful for downshifting and the chassis is entirely different with the dampers in the stiff setting. The rear end is much less lazy and the car as a whole feels much more predictable. I did my first couple of track days in normal mode and it was far better once I switched to sport. And that was before I had done MSS or anything else.
> 
> Otherwise as others have said the alignment is critical for dialing out understeer.
> 
> I would start with those two things and then consider a rear bar or stiffer springs. Personally for me I've never had an issue with getting the car to rotate on track so I don't see the need for a stiffer rear bar. I'm also not convinced the Haldex controller would make that much of a difference on track. The MSS Sport kit was definitely worth it though.


Ah, good point about downshifting. I'll run with Sport Mode next time around. Also, does negative camber in front wheels make the car look like it's stanced? I hope not.


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## trichards69 (Feb 8, 2012)

mremg said:


> Thanks for the generous offer. I just looked at Extreme Speed and looks like the March Event is at Big Willow not Willow streets. Are you sure you're running with Extreme Speed?
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, good point about downshifting. I'll run with Sport Mode next time around. Also, does negative camber in front wheels make the car look like it's stanced? I hope not.




I just looked, I thought it was march i guess its may. oops. anyhow, ill most likely be going to that one.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

Like others have said, the best place to start is maxing out front camber (with zero toe) and leave rear alignment at stock. This greatly improves front end grip under cornering. If you did nothing else to the car, the best way to drop lap times in the TT RS is slow down corner entry speeds to get the car turned into the apex, look ahead to exit and once its pointed correctly you can aggressively get onto throttle, at times even before you reach the apex. This makes your exit speeds higher and minimizes understeer behavior. And, higher exit speeds are the way to drop lap times and catch faster cars.

I run tire pressure of around 32psi all around and with appropriate driving technique, the car does very well and is quick and fun. These cars become more fun and responsive the deeper you are in the throttle, keeping the rear engaged.


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## mremg (May 10, 2015)

trichards69 said:


> I just looked, I thought it was march i guess its may. oops. anyhow, ill most likely be going to that one.


Ok, I'll try to sign up for that one!



pal said:


> Like others have said, the best place to start is maxing out front camber (with zero toe) and leave rear alignment at stock. This greatly improves front end grip under cornering. If you did nothing else to the car, the best way to drop lap times in the TT RS is slow down corner entry speeds to get the car turned into the apex, look ahead to exit and once its pointed correctly you can aggressively get onto throttle, at times even before you reach the apex. This makes your exit speeds higher and minimizes understeer behavior. And, higher exit speeds are the way to drop lap times and catch faster cars.
> 
> I run tire pressure of around 32psi all around and with appropriate driving technique, the car does very well and is quick and fun. These cars become more fun and responsive the deeper you are in the throttle, keeping the rear engaged.


Thanks for the tips. 

Also, I'm curious - do you guys replace the brake fluid and brake pads yourselves or do you take it to a shop?


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## IPSA (Dec 25, 2011)

Once you add the rear sway bar you should add some more neg camber to the rear as the rear now wants to slide.
Pre sway bar hard to drive the rear of the car . With the sway firmer bar and some more neg camber you can drive it more with the rear wheels.Fine tuning with pressures. Start around 31 rear and check temp and pressures every session. 34 -35 front cold. Fronts will get hotter and increase pressures more than rear so you need to find the correct balance for each track through trial and error.Hot pressure over 41 and things get slippery even on PSS's.

The most fun is running with, and past, many vettes, porsche's and even some not so old Ferrari's once you get the hang of it...


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## ZPrime (Mar 7, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I would spend more time improving the driver before modifying the car.

And yeah, the track is what Sport mode was designed for. Stiffening the hell out of the dampers should help keep the body from pitching around so much.


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## mremg (May 10, 2015)

ZPrime said:


> I would spend more time improving the driver before modifying the car.
> 
> And yeah, the track is what Sport mode was designed for. Stiffening the hell out of the dampers should help keep the body from pitching around so much.


Fair point. Like I said, I'm still a beginner so I'm still getting used to the whole thing. The only mods I plan to do for now are new set of tires and a sway bar.
Sport mode - Will use it next time. I just don't like the throttle response in Sport mode, but I might as well get used to it.


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## ZPrime (Mar 7, 2006)

I agree that the sport mode throttle is stupid. Most tunes will help with that though (AFAIK both APR and UM make the throttle the same in both modes)

In beginner auto cross we were always taught that the single best mod for a car is driving schools for the driver. 

- [thumbed from a phone] -


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