# standealone questions



## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

can it be daily driven? does it make its own adjustments? like if the intake air is too hot, does it pull timing?
does it have to be retuned when the outside temp changes?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> can it be daily driven? does it make its own adjustments? like if the intake air is too hot, does it pull timing?
> does it have to be retuned when the outside temp changes?


That depends on the standalone system being used. I daily drive my megasquirted Corrado and get 40+MPG on the highway and near 30mpg around town. 
MS uses both coolant and air temp sensors and can pull timing with high IAT readings. 
No MS adjusts for changes in air temp. www.megamanual.com


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

Prof315 said:


> No MS adjusts for changes in air temp. www.megamanual.com


Actually they do, albeit indirectly. MS makes adjustments based on air density and that changes with temperature. You can find that discussed a little bit in the megamanual under "How Megasquirt works-The Ideal Gas Law"


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ABA Scirocco said:


> Actually they do, albeit indirectly. MS makes adjustments based on air density and that changes with temperature. You can find that discussed a little bit in the megamanual under "How Megasquirt works-The Ideal Gas Law"


I should have worded that sentence differently . I meant that to be an answer to his last question "do you have to retune for temp changes?" I'm well aware that MS uses the airtemp sensor as it's reference for air density correction. I included the link to the megamanual as an information source about MS. 

([email protected] I really need to finish writing an MS for noobs document  )


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

Prof315: I figured you knew that but since the O.P. seems to be at the very start of his learning curve and because he expressed a particular concern about the IAT, I thought it was worth stating explicitly.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

Prof315 said:


> I should have worded that sentence differently . I meant that to be an answer to his last question "do you have to retune for temp changes?" I'm well aware that MS uses the airtemp sensor as it's reference for air density correction. I included the link to the megamanual as an information source about MS.
> 
> *([email protected] I really need to finish writing an MS for noobs document*  )


I've told a few people this but there really needs to be a MS for dummies book made. :laugh: (with lots of pics *hint hint*)


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> can it be daily driven? does it make its own adjustments? like if the intake air is too hot, does it pull timing?
> does it have to be retuned when the outside temp changes?


Can you daily drive any car with EFI? Do they make their own adjustments? Do they have to be retuned when temps change(the weather get cold or hot)?

It is essentially like any other production car out there with EFI, once you get the tune right. Or even close, for that matter. I dd my rabbit year round and it actually runs better on MS than it did the last few years on the CIS due to hot start issues and has not given me any problems yet. But since I installed it myself, I understand how it works and have a much better chance of diagnosing and fixing the MS than I ever did w/ the CIS, and I even had a pressure gauge for testing.


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## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

should i do lugtronic plug and play or ms v3. ?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

That is totally your choice.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> should i do lugtronic plug and play or ms v3. ?


The real question is how comfortable with automotive electrical systems and electronics. If you are reasonably comfortable with this stuff then by all means go straight MS it's WAY cheaper than a Lugtronic P&P heck you could go full out prebuilt V3.57 MS3 and 3X for a lot less.


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## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

do u have a link to prebuilt ms3 i only see prebuilt ms1 and 2. the ms3's i see are all come unassembled


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## bomberbob (Sep 19, 2004)

I am probably setting myself up for a flame, but in my opinion, a properly tuned megasquirt is the ultimate daily driver. Cars with OBD II can be diagnosed using a scantool, but older cars with CIS etc cannot. What other engine management system (speaking of OEM systems) provides such rich access to data you can log while on the street?
My old CIS-E system left me stranded several times. I got sick and tired of it and replaced it. I am very pleased with the results. It is hard to start in the winter, but that has nothing to do with the engine management system, that is because of my choice in fuel. The flexibility of megasquirt is awesome.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

No flames from me, I totally agree.:beer::beer:


I made a rhyme


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## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

how about running a/c.?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

you can do that too. Just part of idle speed control.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> do u have a link to prebuilt ms3 i only see prebuilt ms1 and 2. the ms3's i see are all come unassembled


They are just momentarily out of stock.... As of 2 minutes ago (11:58AM EDT) they are back up on DIYautotune's webpage.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

bomberbob said:


> I am probably setting myself up for a flame, but in my opinion, a properly tuned megasquirt is the ultimate daily driver. Cars with OBD II can be diagnosed using a scantool, but older cars with CIS etc cannot. What other engine management system (speaking of OEM systems) provides such rich access to data you can log while on the street?
> My old CIS-E system left me stranded several times. I got sick and tired of it and replaced it. I am very pleased with the results. It is hard to start in the winter, but that has nothing to do with the engine management system, that is because of my choice in fuel. The flexibility of megasquirt is awesome.


No arguements here... Good gas mileage, excellent drivability and if I decide to change cams or install a turbo or whatever I just retune for the new set up (a 20/20T conversion is in the relatively near future for me)


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## CrankDaBewstmun (Jul 24, 2008)

*My MS2 Experience*

I'm running a pre-built SMD 3.57 MS-II(2) on my 91 GTI ABA turbo. Had it for 2.5 years. 

Here are some pros and cons I can come up with quickly: 

Pros: 

1. Can tune lean cruise and decel to achieve better than OEM fuel Mileage. Just calculated 28 MPG which is 2 MPG better than when I had Digi 1. May not get the same results if you are already OBD-II with a wideband (OEM wideband not like AEM or innovative). 

2. Logging is very useful and often required during initial setup. You can download Mega Log Viewer which will analyze and tweak your fuel table to achieve desired A/F ratios. This is with MS-2 at least. 

3. Setup can be daily driven once you tune it. 

4. Low cost (I paid 375 for my ECU and harness new through craigslist) 

5. With most existing wiring being 15+ yrs old in some cases installing all brand new wiring is a big plus! 

Cons: 

1. Idle speed control is not closed loop so you may need to idle higher to avoid stalling. Only matters if you run A/C or 4000Watts of stereo haha. I think MS1 can be configured for closed loop control if you wish. 

2. You will spend hours reading www.megamanual.com and still not understand it. Most of your expereince will come from hands-on use and reading on www.msefi.com. 

3. Knock sensor is an optional item and can be purchased through Boris @ viatrack. It's called knocksense. Needs to be wired into the MS per his instructions. Works though :thumbup: 

4. Unless it's a track car that won't see weather you need to install the ECU inside the car. Also need to run a vacuum line directly to the ECU. Not a big con just a little tricky to make sure it doesn't get kinked. 

5. There really aren't many "Base maps" out there to use. MS has a calculator for a VE (fuel) table to get you started. I made one using this and then scaled it like by 1.2 to richen all over. Doing this ensures you will be rich and not lean. 

Overall very happy with MS and I am planning a CIS to MS conversion on my 16V Scirocco.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

actually closed loop idle is available on MS1 MS2 and MS3. 

I totally agree about fresh wiring 

More and more base maps are becoming available especially for ABA's and 1.8Ts


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Lugtronic includes a basemap with the ECU.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

bonesaw said:


> Lugtronic includes a basemap with the ECU.


 and costs 2 to 7 times more than megasquirt depending on which MS you buy


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## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

i plan on doin a aba turbo mk2. is there any advantage to runnin both map and maf sensors. and DV or blow off


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## BastardDuck (Dec 10, 2006)

I love my MS2, I've been daily driving it for over 2.5 years now with absolutely zero hicups. I would recommend doing your homework first and be sure you know what you are doing before just jumping right in.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

bonesaw said:


> Lugtronic includes a basemap with the ECU.


 plenty of MS basemaps floating around online, and hardly a reason to pay 3x the money for any specific system.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> i plan on doin a aba turbo mk2. is there any advantage to runnin both map and maf sensors. and DV or blow off


 Throw the MAF in the trash. MAP works better with boost. As far as diverter or blow off, that's just a matter of preference. Or you could buy this http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0006&product=FMDVSPLTR and have both in one package


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## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

I have the Lugtronic and even though it's plug n play, there is still a steep learning curve to tuning the ecu. 
once you go down the stand alone road though, they all work basically the same so it would be easy to go to another brand and get up and running. I think one advantage of the vems(lugtronic) is it's built in wideband and 
egt as opposed to the mega squirt and a more robust built and sealed ecu. 
If I had to do it over again though, I'd go with something even better, autronic or vipec or something like 
that. it's all about support which is really lacking for the vems, mega squirt has great support for sure.


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## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

are egt sensors good for tunning


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> are egt sensors good for tunning


 Not really.... a wideband O2 works best.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> are egt sensors good for tunning


 its a nice-to-have if you already have a wideband... but theyre definitely not effective on their own, and are more useful for tuning spark on the dyno


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## CrankDaBewstmun (Jul 24, 2008)

Prof315 said:


> actually closed loop idle is available on MS1 MS2 and MS3.
> 
> I totally agree about fresh wiring
> 
> More and more base maps are becoming available especially for ABA's and 1.8Ts


Hey wait how can you do closed loop with MS2? I read here http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/IAC.htm it can't be done :screwy:

Is it the extra code? I need to know!


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## CrankDaBewstmun (Jul 24, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> are egt sensors good for tunning


EGT Gauge can point out when you have retarded the timing excessively while tuning WOT. It will climb quicklyif you have too little timing. You could also jump out and watch your turbo glow red . I also use it to tune economy, looking for a relatively "low" temp while cruising. Again too high a temp at cruise can mean too little ign. timing for a given MAP. Basically if used properly an EGT can help tune cruise and WOT ign timing along with a WB as mentioned above for air-fuel monitoring. You certainly would not want to choose an EGT gauge over a WB, but the two can be used together. 

Also useful when cooling down the turbo, I shoot to lower EGT approx 200 degree F beofre shutting the engine off. 

Problem with EGT readings and comparing them is the location of the Thermocouple probe. You can't really compare EGT readings between engines unless the probe is mounted in the same location.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

CrankDaBewstmun said:


> Is it the extra code? I need to know!


extra code, yo :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

my main issue is, once i get the megasquirt3. do i have to any mods to the board? whats this ms3x expansion? do i need it


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> my main issue is, once i get the megasquirt3. do i have to any mods to the board? whats this ms3x expansion? do i need it


What exactly do you want to control? The MS3X board is a prebuilt expansion board specifically designed to work with MS3. There are header pins on both the MS3 and MS3X that are hooked up with 2 ribbon cables (provided with the MS3X) . Once you have the MS3 and 3X connected, the following "mods" are fully functional. 8 high impedance injector drivers, 8 logic level coil drivers, 4 switched inputs, 6 medium current GPOs (general purpose outputs), 3 analog inputs, cam in (VR or hall), flex fuel in and 0-12V square wave tacho out. All of those circuits are already built on the MS3X card.

The MS3 and 3X combo is the EASIEST way to take advantage of the capabilities of the MS3 but you could build your own "mod" circuits if you wanted to. 

One other thing about the 3X, the switched inputs and medium current outputs have default settings in the MS3 firmware: NO2 in , Tableswitch in and NO2 1 out , NO2 2 out etc..... They CAN be used for other things. I use the NO2 in for my A/C in signal because that input accepts 12V in to activate it. The other 3 inputs are ground activated. You can also use any unused injector drivers as GPOs including the 2 on the mainboard!


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## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

okay, i think i got enuff background now. wont fully understand untill its in my hands.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> okay, i think i got enuff background now. wont fully understand untill its in my hands.


Ya never do!


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