# E05B turbo questions



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

I know, I know, "who would spend $1200 on one of these?!?" Please keep comments like this, and "look elsewhere for a better bang for the buck" out of this thread. Also, searching showed little info to my questions.
Anyway, I am wondering if anyone is running the E05B turbo, not the old E05 turbo. Can you use stock TIP's and DP's (BFI says straight bolt-on, so just looking for owner's input)?
For the tuners out there, is it possible to tune via MBC/EBC+diode and lemmiwinks/unisettings with this turbo? I am going to assume larger injectors and FPR, but how big? 380cc + 4-bar?
Any info appreciated








http://store.blackforestindustries.com/e0tu.html










_Modified by abawp at 11:38 AM 10-29-2007_


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

Look in the GLI/20th Threads... First page has a HUGE discussion on this turbo. Oh and its GIAC software... bigger injectors, larger maf... REALLY promising stuff but I'm waiting until I see some dyno's before I dive in.


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## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (abawp)*

Ok I did some digging and found out that yes you can use a forge or samso tip with this turbo. 
Also get a good tune :apr, unitronics, giac will be yur best bet. Also 380cc and 3" maff for the best output and power. fmic and 3" turboback is a must. Aslo the highflow mani is very important. Also found out that going this route can net you about 270-285 whp.
Here my 2 cents also. I was able to produce 253whp with my car and my ko4-001 setup. And my buddy was running 12's almost all day yesterday at FIXX FEST so people saw it with there own eyes. And he's pushing his turbo big time and maken 300whp. So if the e05b is designed better than a normal ko4 i feel feel it can and will make 280whp without even puching it hard. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif That jus my input on this subject.


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

the NEW E05b has the K03s Cold side, with the K04-001 hot side. the K04-001 has the K03 (non-sport) cold side. so this turbo is like a hybrid by combining the best of the K03s and the K04. With the proper tune and hardware as double0vr6 said it is possible to get some serious power. Definitely MORE than a K04-001. BUT those numbers (270-285) would only be possible with water/meth injection.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (double0vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *double0vr6* »_Ok I did some digging and found out that yes you can use a forge or samso tip with this turbo. 
Also get a good tune :apr, unitronics, giac will be yur best bet. Also 380cc and 3" maff for the best output and power. fmic and 3" turboback is a must. Aslo the highflow mani is very important. Also found out that going this route can net you about 270-285 whp.
Here my 2 cents also. I was able to produce 253whp with my car and my ko4-001 setup. And my buddy was running 12's almost all day yesterday at FIXX FEST so people saw it with there own eyes. And he's pushing his turbo big time and maken 300whp. So if the e05b is designed better than a normal ko4 i feel feel it can and will make 280whp without even puching it hard. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif That jus my input on this subject.

that has to produce some nasty torque. Like tire shredding torque


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_
that has to produce some nasty torque. Like tire shredding torque

or holes in your block torque.


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## macosxuser (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (theswoleguy)*

How about on a AWD motor. I know most of the chip solutions aren't plug-in (Direct port) tuneable with the AWD code. I'm either going with a K04-001 or one of these. I don't want to make the car LOOK much different than stock due to CA smog. Hence I have a Neuspeed TIP (most stock looking), I know, not as good, but would that fit on. Can't find info on the E05 (Or on E05B) on the 'net much at all.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (-Khaos-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Khaos-* »_
or holes in your block torque.






















i didnt want to go there







but since you did. I agree


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (double0vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *double0vr6* »_Ok I did some digging and found out that yes you can use a forge or samso tip with this turbo. 
Also get a good tune :apr, unitronics, giac will be yur best bet. Also 380cc and *3" maff* for the best output and power. fmic and 3" turboback is a must. Aslo the highflow mani is very important. Also found out that going this route can net you about 270-285 whp.

For the MAF, is there a specific kit that is put together with this turbo, or can you use one from say a VR6, TT225, etc?
I know everyone says to get software, but I am wondering if this turbo, plus all necessities, is outside of the limits of what Lemmiwinks/Unisettings tuning is capable of. Sure the control is scalar, but is it a bad thing to have perfect A/F ratio in the low-mid range and a slightly richer A/F at the top end?


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## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*

yes i agree witht he w/m for sure without my meth im prob about 230whp most of the time with my meth im about 240, 250 on a cool day. so that meth helps out alot. but i'va ran cars that about 280whp and i keep rite next to them. srt-4, modded 350z, g35 well i killed this one hahaha http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (double0vr6)*

turbo = $1200
injectors = $250 ($400 if you want tt 380's)
manifold = $250
sw - $700-800
--------------------
$2300-2500.








Might aswell save another $500-1000 and get a t3s60 or 50trim kit.


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (abawp)*

Two pages that will be VERY useful on this subject
First, a discussion on this turbo http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3479035 
GIAC's website that says the requirements for the software/turbo http://www.giacusa.com/programs.php?mpid=150


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_turbo = $1200
injectors = $250 ($400 if you want tt 380's)
manifold = $250
sw - $700-800
--------------------
$2300-2500.








Might aswell save another $500-1000 and get a t3s60 or 50trim kit.

Turbo is 1200, software is 500, no need for a manifold bolts up in stock location. and injectors 250... my total is coming up UNDER 2000!!!


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neptunzracing* »_
Turbo is 1200, software is 500, no need for a manifold bolts up in stock location. and injectors 250... my total is coming up UNDER 2000!!!

Not only that, but I believe you have to get a new DP when going with something other than a K04-001 or E05B (so add ~$300 for that), unless T3's come with some sort of adapter fitting where you can use available aftermarket DP's for stock-like turbo's.


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

This turbo is the solution to the "I got a K04-001 and it fell short of my expectations" This is NOT a BT, just something a little extra that uses all the stcok parts that we already have.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neptunzracing* »_
Turbo is 1200, software is 500, no need for a manifold bolts up in stock location. and injectors 250... my total is coming up UNDER 2000!!!

The manifold sucks and the turbine housing sucks. Its fine if you want to be cheap and choke the turbo with a crappy manifold and turbine housing. 
I would still rather have a t3s60 for about $1k more that will spool about the same. Not to mention makes power and actually has a powerband thats more than 1500-2000rpms. Plus its easily upgradeable if you want bigger.


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## Sketchykid (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

we talking mroe torque than a reg k04, which is close to 300?
Where do we think this spools?


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
The manifold sucks and the turbine housing sucks. Its fine if you want to be cheap and choke the turbo with a crappy manifold and turbine housing. 
I would still rather have a t3s60 for about $1k more that will spool about the same. Not to mention makes power and actually has a powerband thats more than 1500-2000rpms. Plus its easily upgradeable if you want bigger.

Where are you getting that info? Do you have any evidence? Sources? Stock manifold flows well enough for the E05b, like I said earlier this is NOT a BT. And what about the turbine housing is crappy?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*

Stock vs High flow manifold http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3397678
Have you ever looked inside a ko3 turbine housing? That is far from efficent, not to mention going to suck if you think your going to run 240whp and almost 300ftlbs like some people in the 20th/337 forum claim.


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_Stock vs High flow manifold http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3397678
Have you ever looked inside a ko3 turbine housing? That is far from efficent, not to mention going to suck if you think your going to run 240whp and almost 300ftlbs like some people in the 20th/337 forum claim.


E05b doesn't flow enough to require a larger manifold.. maybe if you were getting an eliminator kit or something I could see why you would want something larger. Also, efficiency isn't the point of this upgrade. if you wanted something super efficient that kicked out TONS of WHP then we wouldn't be looking at this turbo. This turbo is supposed to be the BETTER option than that K04-001. Same price, MORE power. The reason why people would choose this turbo is because they 1. DONT have the money for a BT setup. or 2. Dont want/need all of the extra power that might not be as usable in Los Angeles bumper to bumper traffic. I know that even with my K03s sometimes the split second lag is enough to almost get me smashed when changing lanes. The reason why I am so interested in this kit is because I am not willing to spend more than $2500, and because I have California SMOG requirements. Before my GTI I owned a civic hatch that had a motor swap and I had SUCH a hard time getting that to pass inspection. Ended up costing me close to $500 every other year to pass! I want something that I can throw in there, walk into inspection and KNOW that they can't tell the difference between a stock turbo and this one. IF i had an altered manifold, huge snail with tons of custom piping it wouldn't even pass visual!


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neptunzracing* »_
E05b doesn't flow enough to require a larger manifold.. maybe if you were getting an eliminator kit or something I could see why you would want something larger. 



How can you say you want to make more power and claim the manifold isnt a restriction? The turbine housing is a bigger problem, but atleast a nicer manifold will help. But if you dont believe me, lets see about what EuroTuner has to add with there dyno on a stock turbo.
link http://images.google.com/imgre...%3Den








If you see gains with a ko3s, your deffinatly going to see gains with something thats going to be pushing 30-40whp more.

_Quote »_
Also, efficiency isn't the point of this upgrade. if you wanted something super efficient that kicked out TONS of WHP then we wouldn't be looking at this turbo. This turbo is supposed to be the BETTER option than that K04-001. Same price, MORE power. 

what do you mean your not looking for something more efficent? Thats the point of upgrading the turbo, using one that is more efficent at the same psi than the last one. Otherwise your just swapping for no reason.



_Modified by cincyTT at 6:00 PM 10-29-2007_


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

Back to the ORIGINAL topic... Manifold is NOT required for an E05b swap. 
cincyTT has shown us a cool manifold that we could use as a bolt on. But it is by no means REQUIRED.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*

its not required for people with a gt2x-gt71r elims, but they still buy them. ALong with the crazy ko4-001 people. You know its worth it, you just dont want to admit it.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*

So as far as parts lists go, it should be as follows?
Required items:
E05B turbo
Injectors? (380cc's?)
software of some kind (GIAC is preferred?)
3" MAF (from TT225)
Things that make this turbo more beneficial:
3" DP
TIP
Kinetic exhaust manifold
Anything else?








The big question though, as far as required components, is are the injectors, software, and 3" maf really required, or can you slap on the turbo and install the supporting hardware/software as needed?
Edit: Looks like K03s TIPS are straight bolt-on:
E05B








K03s








From: this thread, third post down.


_Modified by abawp at 4:20 PM 10-29-2007_


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_So as far as parts lists go, it should be as follows?
Required items:
E05B turbo
Injectors? (380cc's?)
software of some kind (GIAC is preferred?)
3" MAF (from TT225)
Things that make this turbo more beneficial:
3" DP
TIP
Kinetic exhaust manifold
Anything else?








Edit: Looks like K03s TIPS are straight bolt-on:
E05B








K03s








From: this thread, third post down.

_Modified by abawp at 4:10 PM 10-29-2007_

EXACTLY!
cincyTT: Yes, the manifold gives you a few... ponies, so does a new cat-back or a downpipe.. Neither of which is needed for this swap. THAT was my initial point. NOT dissing you your manifold, in fact I will probably pick one of those up sometime soon. Point of this thread was to state what was NEEDED for the swap.


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## Sketchykid (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*

so what kind of spool are we looking at? What torque numbers with this? I dont care so much about hp, as I do usable torque ASAP


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## JustinGLi18T (Apr 10, 2007)

*Re: (Sketchykid)*

What about revo k04-020 software?


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (abawp)*

My E04 decimated only after 3 months


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neptunzracing* »_the NEW E05b has the K03s Cold side, with the K04-001 hot side. the K04-001 has the K03 (non-sport) cold side.

Can you clarify?
I thought the following:
- KO3 had a KO3 compressor and a KO3 turbine
- KO3S combines a KO4-001 compressor (slightly larger than the KO3) and a KO3 turbine
- KO4-001 uses the same compressor as the KO3S and a larger turbine wheel
All three variants use the same shaft.
I didn't think the KO4-001 uses the retrograde, smaller KO3 non-sport compressor. Is this true?
The original custom E0-stuff took a KO4 and installed a larger compressor wheel with a machined housing to match. The early ones had reliability problems due primarily to the tiny 4.4mm stem on the compressor side of the shaft. Later versions (B? C?) upgraded the shaft to a larger piece to better resist wobble and to handle the increased moments caused by the larger compressor wheel.
Corrections?


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*

You should just buy a k04-20 for about the same price you will spend on the e05b. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
For the MAF, is there a specific kit that is put together with this turbo, or can you use one from say a VR6, TT225, etc?
I know everyone says to get software, but I am wondering if this turbo, plus all necessities, is outside of the limits of what Lemmiwinks/Unisettings tuning is capable of. Sure the control is scalar, but is it a bad thing to have perfect A/F ratio in the low-mid range and a slightly richer A/F at the top end?


tt maff works


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## Sketchykid (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*

thats another thin I am curious about, the comparison between a E-05 and a k04-02x.


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## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neptunzracing* »_This turbo is the solution to the "I got a K04-001 and it fell short of my expectations" This is NOT a BT, just something a little extra that uses all the stcok parts that we already have. 

Yur correct and i agree with you. The people i talk to said that this is a fast and eazy way to get to 240-250 on pump, but with a lil v-tune or unisetting and water/meth, injectors and maff and the rite amount of boost the eo5b turbo can net in the 270-280whp range. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (double0vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *double0vr6* »_

tt maff works

I am sure this can be answered with the search but I figured since we are on the subject, is there specific software requirements for a TT MAF to work or can you just bolt it in and go?


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## Sketchykid (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (abawp)*

GIAC calls for tt MAF


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## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (neptunzracing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neptunzracing* »_
E05b doesn't flow enough to require a larger manifold.. maybe if you were getting an eliminator kit or something I could see why you would want something larger!

ok I made the mistake the 1st time and i had my ko4-001 on stock mani and only mad 212-214whp and 270-280 wtq then added the highflow mani and made 226-227 and 229 whp. so I know and beleive it does somthing.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (Sketchykid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sketchykid* »_GIAC calls for tt MAF

I know, but after some searching, it sounds incompatable (TT MAF is 5 wire while GTI MAF is 4 wire). What is needed to make it work, or is it just plug-n-play?


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## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01gtiaww* »_You should just buy a k04-20 for about the same price you will spend on the e05b. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


I was thinking about a ko4-20 but after see no one is able to make a eazy 250whp and i made 253whp pushing my ko4-001 jus a lil. im sure the ko4-20 can make much more but there jus way to much crap going on wrong with the setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
The manifold sucks and the turbine housing sucks. Its fine if you want to be cheap and choke the turbo with a crappy manifold and turbine housing. 
I would still rather have a t3s60 for about $1k more that will spool about the same. Not to mention makes power and actually has a powerband thats more than 1500-2000rpms. Plus its easily upgradeable if you want bigger.

I would love to know where your getting your info from about the powerband on an eo5b because last time I checked there were no dyno's submitted to this forum. We'll see soon enough what its like. Others may not have the money to risk on a t3 setup.


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## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (Sketchykid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sketchykid* »_GIAC calls for tt MAF

and also does unitronic and you can use the tt maff with apr for a more agressive tune.


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (double0vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *double0vr6* »_

I was thinking about a ko4-20 but after see no one is able to make a eazy 250whp and i made 253whp pushing my ko4-001 jus a lil. im sure the ko4-20 can make much more but there jus way to much crap going on wrong with the setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

No one has ever pushed a k04-20 to its limit. And what crap is going on with this set up? I have never had any issues with my k04-20. Most of us are afraid to push the k04-20 to its limit because of the massive torque spikes. I'm sure if someone, including myself upgraded rods and were able to tune the SW much more aggresive, 250whp would be achieved with no problems. E05b is not going to be much differant. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Most of the guys on the k04-20 thread that complain are because they are babies and think that it is going to run perfect by just slapping it on. In reality all turbo kits no matter what you have and what SW you run requires some tweaking to get it to run as you want. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by 01gtiaww at 12:01 PM 10-30-2007_


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## macosxuser (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*

Forgive the N00b questions, but are you afraid to push the Ko4 because of the quick spool on the low end of the RPM band? Too much torque without RPM? I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with my car (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3518093). If it's the turbo, I'm going to go with a "drop in" because I can't afford a manafold. Either the Ko4-001, a used Ko3s, or the E05B. I want to make sure i've got a big enough turbo so I'm not pushing it hard. Short term goals are 210whp. Which I think either will do comfortably... 
I guess the E05b would just give more head room for 250 HP later?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_
I would love to know where your getting your info from about the powerband on an eo5b because last time I checked there were no dyno's submitted to this forum. We'll see soon enough what its like. Others may not have the money to risk on a t3 setup.

Expecting to have a turbo with a ko3s turbine wheel/housing to have a long and nice powerband is







Its a restriction on the ko3s, its going to be a restriction on turbo that flows more cfm. The ko4-2x has a larger and better designed turbine and will only hold 16-18psi till redline with a 22-23psi peak. Your still going to be in the same boat with a eo5 as you were with a ko3/4-001, higher peak and it just tapering off a tiny bit slower. 
So i guess the same applies to you were your getting your info from since you havent seen a dyno or run one







Just because you add a slightly larger compressor wheel, doesnt mean your going to get a nice long powerband. And my org comment was compared to a t3s60.


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## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Bump


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
Expecting to have a turbo with a ko3s turbine wheel/housing to have a long and nice powerband is







Its a restriction on the ko3s, its going to be a restriction on turbo that flows more cfm. The ko4-2x has a larger and better designed turbine and will only hold 16-18psi till redline with a 22-23psi peak. Your still going to be in the same boat with a eo5 as you were with a ko3/4-001, higher peak and it just tapering off a tiny bit slower. 
So i guess the same applies to you were your getting your info from since you havent seen a dyno or run one







Just because you add a slightly larger compressor wheel, doesnt mean your going to get a nice long powerband. And my org comment was compared to a t3s60.









well state that next time in your little thesis on the power band on an e05b who knows what it'll be like until we see the dyno, don't just flash out numbers.


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## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

it will have a much smoother powerband.


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

bump - would like to hear some more opinions about this


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

I would like to hear your oppinions regarding the change of the turbine housing with one of even greater flow/design as in the pic.Anyone seen these before?








edit: maybe should've posted in the k020x thread?!


_Modified by rogerius at 9:13 AM 11-13-2007_


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## oempls (Aug 9, 2004)

*Re: (rogerius)*

Somebody had to have done this turbo. I want to see some real numbers.


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (Island20V)*

when all of you talk about HP, post up dyno sheets. Cause all you are saying is the spike hp...
Heres my Ko3s at 21psi dyno vs my t3/t4 57 trim .63 at 20psi both pump gas








Even if you stupid ko4 had 500whp spike you would still get owned in the 1/4mile. Stop wasting your time in retarded upgrades... That 57 trim turbo kit was cheap
turbo = 575
manifold - 350
wastegate - 250
downpipe - 300
injectors - 200
all the oil lines - 150
for about 1500 you can have most of the hardware plus the software you can have 300+ whp for about 2k


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

x2 
don't bother wasting your time, u will be happier in the long run on a t3 flange. the first time you get walked on by a stock dodge caliber or mazda 3 your going to curl up in the corner and cry that u just spent 2 g's on 30 hp for 200 rpms. If you take your time and shop smart you can have a real upgrade for the same price


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## oempls (Aug 9, 2004)

*Re: (the awesome)*

So you guys are saying dont wast your time then?


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (Island20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_ Stop wasting your time in retarded upgrades... 


_Quote, originally posted by *the awesome* »_don't bother wasting your time


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: (Island20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Island20V* »_So you guys are saying dont wast your time then?

i told you not to bother with a k04 man... you had a blown VR6.. you need to get a pagparts 50 trim.


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## oempls (Aug 9, 2004)

*Re: (boosted b5)*

Brett you know me, not tryin to go BT. Just want a little extra to go with all the bolt-ons.


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## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (double0vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *double0vr6* »_
and also does unitronic and you can use the tt maff with apr for a more agressive tune.

Explain how you could get a more agressive tune with the APR K04 tune? and please dont just say "vtune" you've said replace the MAF with a TT one.. then what advance the timing? kick up the boost? I'm trying to run the E05b WITHOUT METH


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_when all of you talk about HP, post up dyno sheets. Cause all you are saying is the spike hp...
Heres my Ko3s at 21psi dyno vs my t3/t4 57 trim .63 at 20psi both pump gas








Even if you stupid ko4 had 500whp spike you would still get owned in the 1/4mile. Stop wasting your time in retarded upgrades... That 57 trim turbo kit was cheap
turbo = 575
manifold - 350
wastegate - 250
downpipe - 300
injectors - 200
all the oil lines - 150
for about 1500 you can have most of the hardware plus the software you can have 300+ whp for about 2k
 t3 for 575? where


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_ t3 for 575? where

rippinralf has 57 trims for 595 shipped, check FI classifieds, im sure u can find them for less, but once u add in shipping its either more $$ or a wash


_Modified by the awesome at 9:13 PM 11-13-2007_


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (the awesome)*

unfortunately its only a 57 and 60trim, but here 
http://pwrhaus.com/products.html
and
http://www.spoolinperformance....9624b


----------



## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd love to see a good dyno of this turbo to see how long it holds max power.


----------



## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: (Island20V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Island20V* »_Brett you know me, not tryin to go BT. Just want a little extra to go with all the bolt-ons.

nitrous.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

so the difference between the gt's and the t3's are the t3's are obviously smaller and they arn't ball bearing, which isn't as reliable and spools slower?


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

not gt's vs t3's. Its ball bearing vs journal bearings. DBB turbos spool faster, have less drag, and make more tq than journal bearings. Thus the double the cost. Both are very realable if taken care of.


----------



## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

I'm almost certain I'm going with this turbo. I like the fact that it bolts right up, I'll be able to upgrade my APR software for $199, and will likely be more reliable than a custom set up. Not everybody out here is so power hungry. And not everybody has the hours and hours that it takes to tune a custom set up. Anyway, flame on.


----------



## neptunzracing (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_I'm almost certain I'm going with this turbo. I like the fact that it bolts right up, I'll be able to upgrade my APR software for $199, and will likely be more reliable than a custom set up. Not everybody out here is so power hungry. And not everybody has the hours and hours that it takes to tune a custom set up. Anyway, flame on.

That was my plan, but I heard somewhere one dude was running the K04-022 software with TT injectors and TT MAF (like what the GIAC software asks for) not the 001 software.


----------



## badbidet (Sep 13, 2005)

I love these posts. makes me chuckle. any word on a "C" trim of e05? is there a t3 that uses stock downpipe location yet? I like the idea of using a smaller turbo upgrade cause I am stibborn and do not want to get a BT setup even though it is better, if you dont live in CA and have one of the strictest smog laws in the US.


----------



## macosxuser (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: (badbidet)*

I want it because it looks stock, same reason I have a Neuspeed TIP and Gutted OEM airbox. Won't flunk the visual inspection at the smog shop. But most of you guys don't have to worry about that stuff.


----------



## oempls (Aug 9, 2004)

*Re: (macosxuser)*

Sucks to live in Cali!


----------



## 2.0JettaGL (Apr 2, 2004)

No worry, soon all the other states will adopt the same emmision laws.


----------



## oempls (Aug 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.0JettaGL)*

Not anytime soon.


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (badbidet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badbidet* »_any word on a "C" trim of e05? is there a t3 that uses stock downpipe location yet? 

This is what you are looking for?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3224348


----------



## theregoesbrad (May 11, 2005)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
Can you clarify?
I thought the following:
- KO3 had a KO3 compressor and a KO3 turbine
- KO3S combines a KO4-001 compressor (slightly larger than the KO3) and a KO3 turbine
- KO4-001 uses the same compressor as the KO3S and a larger turbine wheel
All three variants use the same shaft.
I didn't think the KO4-001 uses the retrograde, smaller KO3 non-sport compressor. Is this true?
The original custom E0-stuff took a KO4 and installed a larger compressor wheel with a machined housing to match. The early ones had reliability problems due primarily to the tiny 4.4mm stem on the compressor side of the shaft. Later versions (B? C?) upgraded the shaft to a larger piece to better resist wobble and to handle the increased moments caused by the larger compressor wheel.
Corrections?










k03s only has a different waste gate that allows for more boost pressure. Otherwise a ko3s and ko3 are identical.
I would go with a ko4-2x if you are already planning on doing a mani and injectors.


----------



## double0vr6 (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (theregoesbrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theregoesbrad* »_
k03s only has a different waste gate that allows for more boost pressure. Otherwise a ko3s and ko3 are identical.
I would go with a ko4-2x if you are already planning on doing a mani and injectors.

i haven't seen a ko4-20 make over 235 on pump gas yet and way to many of the ko4-20 have problems with the kit at 1st.


----------



## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (theregoesbrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theregoesbrad* »_k03s only has a different waste gate that allows for more boost pressure. Otherwise a ko3s and ko3 are identical.

That's not my understanding:
"_(cincyTT) here is the differnce 

ko3 small turbo for most 2000-2001 cars 
ko3s have a slightly bigger compressor, the same for a ko4-001 for 2001- on 
ko4-001 or 15 has a slighly larger turbine housing than a ko3s 
ko4-2x are off 225 have a larger turbine and compressor than the ko4-001 

you will see some gain from a ko3 to a ko3s (~10hp @ smae psi) but thats about it. 

^ these turbo are all very capabable of running 20-24 daily without any problems. 
^^ the compression will help spool your turbo faster (like the need it) and give more power through out the power band. Your engine was designed to run it and there are people running 300, 400, 500 plus whp with 9.5:1 compression on these engines everyday. 
^^^ the spool on all of the turbos listed above are way to quick to even worry about, if you have fwd a laggier turbo is suggested. A larger turbo, even running at a low psi will allow you to get better traction and make good power, plus have room to grow. 

i tried to make this own post so i hope everyone finds the response to their questions._"
http://www.audiforums.com/arch....html
and
"_ (Christoph) The total diameter of the compressor wheels are 50mm (K04/K03s) and 45mm (K03). Inside diameter of the inlets are 38mm (K03s) and 36mm (K03). The one mm difference concerns the outside diameter of the inlet where the inlet pipe fits onto (45mm vs 44mm)._"
and
"_ (Christoph) As far as I know the "K03sport" turbos all have the K04 compressor wheel which only has four pair of vanes as against the standard six pair of vanes and has 50 mm diameter compared to the K03's 45mm. Furthermore the compressor inlet diameter is 2mm larger on the inside (you need a different inlet pipe on the K03sport too).
That are the experiences I made when I changed from standard to the late 180 hp 1.8T's turbocharger (06A145713D)._"
http://www.seatcupra.net/forum...28142
etc. There's quite alot floating around about the K03S having a larger compressor than the K03.


----------



## MaxedOutCredit (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: (Blackfin)*

Blackfin,
I'm glad someone is here to keep the koX statements in check. Reading this thread was frustrating before getting to your replys.


----------



## grizzlyone (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (theregoesbrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theregoesbrad* »_
k03s only has a different waste gate that allows for more boost pressure. Otherwise a ko3s and ko3 are identical.
I would go with a ko4-2x if you are already planning on doing a mani and injectors.

Not true at all.
-K03sport has a larger cold side than the k03, both use the same hot side
-K04-01 uses a K03 cold side, not a k03sport and its own larger hot side
-E05 used a k03 cold side, k04 hot side and a more agressive eurospec exh impeller. But it kept the stock k03/k04 shaft which is the main reason they failed we subjected to 20psi+
-E05B uses a non muffled k03sport cold side, and the same k04 hot side with eurospec impeller as the old E05. But they added a new stronger shaft and bearing for the B version due to the original's failure rates
From my posts in the 337/20th/GLI forum:

_Quote »_Left to right, EO5b(mk4), K03sport(mk4), K03(b5):








And close ups of the intake impeller opening, no real way to measure the exhaust with disassembling the turbos:
E05b:








K03sport:








K03:








And this pretty clearly shows the E05b uses a K03sport cold side without a silencer which some have claimed doesnt exsist
-E05b on the left K04-01 on the right








-E05b inlet sizes
















-k04-01 inlet sizes
















So its pretty clear a K04-01 uses a K03 compressor side while the E05b uses a K03sport compressor side.


----------



## MaxedOutCredit (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: (grizzlyone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *grizzlyone* »_
Not true at all.
-K04-01 uses a K03 cold side, not a k03sport and its own larger hot side



That's not true either. The inlet for the k04-001 may be the same size inlet, and perhaps the same cold-side housing as the k03, but the vein design is completely different.


----------



## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

Great post grizzlyone. I really thought the KO4 shared its compressor wheel with the sport version of the KO3. Apparently it doesn't. 
I went and measured my the KO4-001 in my basement and came up with an inlet ID of about 38.3mm (1.508") and an OD of 44mm (1.732"). Most tellingly though is that I note that the factory TIP from my car (2002, AWP) is a bit of a loose fit over the comrpessor inlet and that the mounting bolt hole in the TIP does not line up with the hole in the compressor housing: clearly, the compressor housing on this KO4 (part number on it is 5304-950-0001 and KO4-001 JG50121176) is _smaller_ than the KO3S housing on my car.
This is confusing. I'dve thought the KO4-001 would at least use the larger KO3S compressor. Seems silly to increase the flow on the exhaust side and go _down_ a size on the compressor.
Upgrade options? Get a KO3S and swap cold-sides on my KO4 to combine the superior hot-side of the KO4 and the KO3S's larger compressor airflow capacity?
Does anyone know what BW/KKK compressor part numbers were used in the KO3, KO3S and KO4? After a bit of searching, I've come up with a number of different compressor wheel partnumbers for both:
KO3
------
5303-123-2018
Inducer diameter: 1.324in/33.63mm
Tip height: 0.146/3.71
Exducer diameter: 1.812/46.02
5304-123-2201
Inducer diameter: 1.515in/38.48mm
Tip height: 0.184/4.67
Exducer diameter: 2.006/50.95
5303-123-2011
Inducer diameter: 1.238in/31.45mm
Tip height: 0.123/3.12
Exducer diameter: 1.770/44.96
5304-123-2007
Inducer diameter: 1.418in/36.02mm
Tip height: 0.153/3.89
Exducer diameter: 1.967/49.96
and for the KO4:
--------------------
5304-123-2029
Inducer diameter: 1.494in/37.95mm
Tip height: 0.173/4.39
Exducer diameter: 2.006/50.95
5304-123-5010
Inducer diameter: 1.374in/34.90mm
Tip height: 0.142/3.61
Exducer diameter: 1.967/49.96
5304-123-2032
Inducer diameter: 1.360in/34.54mm
Tip height: 0.129/3.28
Exducer diameter: 2.006/50.95
5304-123-2202
Inducer diameter: 1.486in/37.74mm
Tip height: 0.174/4.42
Exducer diameter: 2.006/50.95
5304-123-2023
Inducer diameter: 1.443in/36.65mm
Tip height: 0.159/4.04
Exducer diameter: 2.006/50.95
5304-123-2018
Inducer diameter: 1.416in/35.97mm
Tip height: 0.145/3.68
Exducer diameter: 1.967/49.96
5304-123-2007
Inducer diameter: 1.418in/36.02mm
Tip height: 0.153/3.89
Exducer diameter: 1.967/49.96
5304-123-2000
- see above under KO3 section
5304-123-2005
Inducer diameter: 1.374in/34.90mm
Tip height: 0.147/3.73
Exducer diameter: 1.967/49.96
(all info courtesy of Turbo International)
What does the KO3 use? The KO3S? The KO4? For that matter, what wheel does the EO5 use?
I wonder if I can swap in a larger 5304-123-2201 wheel with a KO3S compressor housing (machined as necessary) onto my KO4 chassis?
So confusing...



_Modified by Blackfin at 10:31 AM 11-18-2007_


----------



## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*

Eurospec is suppoed to having a eo5c come out sometime but they said no info until after the holidays to someone in an email i believe. 
Why does everyone say 500 for software? its only 200 to update from APR to the ko4-001 file... its only 200 for the GIAC eo5b/ko4-001 file, and i believe REVO has a ko4 file which you can upload if you already have that chip too for a small price...
Thus, unless you dont have software... or u really wanna go Unitronic... its not 500 for software...
BFI has good injectors for like 250...
Maf is like 150 or less...
FPR is like 50-100 bucks...
thats 1200 for turbo
200 for software
250 for injectors
and 150 for maf...
100 for FPR too...
thats only 1900... if u really wanna wait and spend another grand on a T3S60 thats a good idea to... but add 200 bucks for the loss of the DP you already have plus the cost of a new one... u have to go custom with the T3S60.
another point is... with that extra grand... you can buy Water Meth... 400
Get a Vtune with the Water Meth... 200 at KTR for 3 dyno runs and a small amount of tuning
and a Mani for 300 and have 100 left over for little goodies... like dual nozzels in the watermeth and that throttle body plate or something... then... ull be at the same power as the T3S60... right around 280wph....
okay so now uve maxed out this turbo where as the T3S60 is just getting started... but if u wanna go further with the T3S60 youll need to do internals... even before Water Meth on that...

Another option would be the ko4-02x... but that really is 2500 for about the same hp this puts out with just the bare minimums... injectors... maf and turbo... and thats only 1900 vs the ko4-02x's price of 2500 i believe... thats what it was from Pro-imports.


_Modified by Gberg888GLI at 10:49 AM 11-18-2007_


----------



## grizzlyone (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_Great post grizzlyone. I really thought the KO4 shared its compressor wheel with the sport version of the KO3. Apparently it doesn't. 
This is confusing. I'dve thought the KO4-001 would at least use the larger KO3S compressor. Seems silly to increase the flow on the exhaust side and go _down_ a size on the compressor.
Upgrade options? Get a KO3S and swap cold-sides on my KO4 to combine the superior hot-side of the KO4 and the KO3S's larger compressor airflow capacity?
Does anyone know what BW/KKK compressor part numbers were used in the KO3, KO3S and KO4? After a bit of searching, I've come up with a number of different compressor wheel partnumbers for both:


Yes until I had all the various turbos in my hands and sat down and measured them I wasnt sure on the K04-01 having a smaller compressor size either, but obviously it isnt quite the size of the K03sport.
But then there are always people , on the tex and other places, that like to state opinions as facts without any real knowledge. And then others perpetuate it until who knows what the truth really is. Its much the same with the E05b in a thread some time ago I had commented that it used a k03sport cold side without the silencer. ANd there were several longtime 'well known' people on here that said I was full of it and no such thing existed.
But yes I would say if you were to have access to both a k04-01 and k03sport to combine you would have a 'super' k04, something Neuspeed actually sold for a very short time, as did Kinetic. And it would be a bit of an E05-light so to speak. Doing it with used parts would be fairly cost effective as well. I really think that is why the Eurospec E05's havent sold as much as one would think. As they are building custom turbos out of new parts the price refects that.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (grizzlyone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *grizzlyone* »_But yes I would say if you were to have access to both a k04-01 and k03sport to combine you would have a 'super' k04, something Neuspeed actually sold for a very short time, as did Kinetic. And it would be a bit of an E05-light so to speak. Doing it with used parts would be fairly cost effective as well. I really think that is why the Eurospec E05's havent sold as much as one would think. As they are building custom turbos out of new parts the price refects that.

That almost makes me wonder if the E05b is worth if for us K03s folk. Seeing as how we start off with a K03s compressor housing (OE), and purchase a K04-001 specifically for the exaust side, sounds to me that you could get E05b numbers (whatever they are), or according to Gberg888GLI's post, T3S60 numbers for cheaper than an E05b.
How difficult would it be to swap out compressor wheels and housings from a K03s to a K04-001?


----------



## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*

a fully done up eo5b should be close to a t3s60 setup is what im saying... not just that alone... so i dont get flamed...
Fully done e05b:
Water/Meth.. with timing
Manifolds.. both intake and exhaust with spacer
injectors
maf...
Whatever else u want
280whp...
T3S60:
270-300whp
PS... it wasnt cheaper it was about the same give or take 200


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## MaxedOutCredit (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: (Gberg888GLI)*

The wheel on the K04 is not the same as on the K03. The inlets are the same diameter, but the wheels are different. The vein configuration of the wheel on the k04 resembles that of the k03s.
My car stock had a k03 and I later upgraded to the k04. Side by side comparison showed that the wheels are not the same. But as we all know the TIP was interchangeable since the inlet diameters are the same.
Putting the k03s wheel and the k04 would be a complete waste. You my gain a couple HP for increasing the inlet size, but I'd bet not much more.
_Modified by MaxedOutCredit at 1:32 PM 11-18-2007_


_Modified by MaxedOutCredit at 1:33 PM 11-18-2007_


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Gberg888GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gberg888GLI* »_a fully done up eo5b should be close to a t3s60 setup is what im saying... not just that alone... so i dont get flamed...
Whatever else u want
280whp...
T3S60:
270-300whp


Peaks maybe, powerbands are a totally differnt story. The smaller Eo5 turbine wheel wont allow you to hold the power in higher rpms like a t3s60. Plus your going to spend more on the full eo5 setup like you listed above than just getting a t3s60 in the first place.


----------



## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

Cincy TT I disagree. I think it depends a little bit on the mods a person might have. But in my case it is going to cost much less for an eo5b set up.
$1200 Eo5b
$199 upgrade to apr K04 software
$50 4 bar fpr
Pagparts quoted t3s60 set up
$3180
Hmmm not a real tough decision for me.


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_Cincy TT I disagree. I think it depends a little bit on the mods a person might have. But in my case it is going to cost much less for an eo5b set up.
$1200 Eo5b
$199 upgrade to apr K04 software
$50 4 bar fpr
Pagparts quoted t3s60 set up
$3180
Hmmm not a real tough decision for me.

you will run out of injectors on k04 software pushing an e05. Grenade the block and be out a whole lot more money. Better look into some injectors. How do i know... my injectors were running at 98% on my ko3s mods. That flows more air then my ko3 does hopefully


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_Cincy TT I disagree. I think it depends a little bit on the mods a person might have. But in my case it is going to cost much less for an eo5b set up.
$1200 Eo5b
$199 upgrade to apr K04 software
$50 4 bar fpr
Pagparts quoted t3s60 set up
$3180
Hmmm not a real tough decision for me.

WOW, you didnt read my post at all did you? Either that or selective reading








You can upgrade your stock revo, giac or unitronics programming files aswell for the same cost







So take out another $500 from the pag kit. 
Not to mention you should swap manifolds with the e05 to make it worthwhile, so add another $350 to the price tag. Plus all that other stuff that guy listed about injectors (since most will use them) and w/m injection (to get comparable peaks) *This is all in what THAT GUY claimed*. So where does that put us.....
e05 - $1200 + 200 + 50 + 350(man) + 500(w/m) + 250 (inj) = $2550
t3s60 - $3180 - 500 = $2680
so with what that other guy claimed to make them comparable, you are spending all of $120 less and have a much shorter power band. You can do what you have listed, but its not going to gain you much.....SORRY.



_Modified by cincyTT at 6:07 PM 11-18-2007_


----------



## badbidet (Sep 13, 2005)

COMPARABLE IN PRICE! but I think the people who are looking into this turbo are not wanting peak power. they want a more stock drivability. Therefore power at 4200 or so is awesome I agree, but some people want power sooner, and do not want a BT. Why cant we all agree on the fact that there is more than k03 sized turbos and BT sized turbos. THere are a few that are inbetween, that make power inbetween the two.


----------



## badbidet (Sep 13, 2005)

anyways. I am liking the idea of "theswoleguy's" setup. Max out the K03s with WAI, and bigger MAF, and injectors. Then when/if your K03 blows, you can easily swap in something bigger like a K04/E05b(med. sized turbo) or sell it all to someone (cause you know someone would love to buy MAF, 380cc, 4 bar FPR etc.) Is there a dyno of your car theswoleguy without race gas? I would like to see what 93 and WAI runs at.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (badbidet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badbidet* »_COMPARABLE IN PRICE! but I think the people who are looking into this turbo are not wanting peak power. they want a more stock drivability. Therefore power at 4200 or so is awesome I agree, but some people want power sooner, and do not want a BT. Why cant we all agree on the fact that there is more than k03 sized turbos and BT sized turbos. THere are a few that are inbetween, that make power inbetween the two.

The t3 will hit 20psi by ~3k. Dont know about you, but i RARELY drive below 3k unless im in high gear and driving slow. With a e05 all your getting is a higher spike and a slightly slower taper effect. Plus the driveability is going to be harder with a e05 since you have a massive tq spike before 3k and having fwd. Good luck not spinning like crazy everytime you want to get moving.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (badbidet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *badbidet* »_easily swap in something bigger like a K04/E05b(med. sized turbo).

calling a baby k0X/eo5 a "med size turbo" is an insult to the t3's and gt28 family of turbos. They are bigger yes, but far from a "big turbo"


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

naw no 93 runs, but this is just until i go "medium turbo" gt2871R and i wanted to learn and tweak like SAVwKO and GT-ER did with theres


----------



## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Wow! I have read all of your posts. And you're pricing is wrong.
$295 kinetic manifold (not required)
$400 w/m
$200 injectors (and APR does not call for bigger injectors with their K04 file, so i think it is still up in the air wether or not these are needed).
AND.......
This thread is not t3s60 vs. e05b. I think that you should start one if thats really what you want to talk about. This thread is for people who are interested in the Eo5b set up.
SORRY


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_Wow! I have read all of your posts. And you're pricing is wrong.
$295 kinetic manifold (not required)
$400 w/m
$200 injectors (and APR does not call for bigger injectors with their K04 file, so i think it is still up in the air wether or not these are needed).
AND.......
This thread is not t3s60 vs. e05b. I think that you should start one if thats really what you want to talk about. This thread is for people who are interested in the Eo5b set up.
SORRY


yea its not REQUIRED for the ko4 file but trust me the e05 is flowing more then a k04 the eo5 is more a ko4-2x series and those require bigger injectors... look
My ko3s logs with WM on 93... i think you might want bigger injectors judging by that duty cycle. BTW this was @ 4bar


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_Wow! I have read all of your posts. And you're pricing is wrong.
This thread is not t3s60 vs. e05b. I think that you should start one if thats really what you want to talk about. This thread is for people who are interested in the Eo5b set up.
SORRY


Then why did you even comment to me IF you read my post correctly? He made the compareson in power and i commented on it. Not sure how your post was in response to my post in any way. You just said the bare minimum to get it up and running, not to the point the person i replied to's level. So again, reread. 
As said just above, a 4bar wont get you anywere near the power levels you think your getting. You WILL NEED bigger injectors. And just because you listed parts at a cheaper price still doesnt justify that people should throw an additional $1k on a sub par setup. 
If its what you want, have fun


----------



## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

I do appreciate the input. And i will definitely look at injectors when and if I go Eo5b.
I believe this topic was brought up for people who didn't think K04 was a worthwile upgrade, but don't necessarily want the hassle/growing pains of going big turbo.
I still think that it is a great option for people who aren't shooting for 300+ HP


----------



## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

i dont know if that quote for pag parts included the software but that was another 700 from unitronic.
im gonna get the ei5b or c if it comes out this summer hopfully.
~~~~~~~~~~~
could u run just the eo5b with nothing else... no software... no injectors... no maf... just switch turbos?


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Gberg888GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gberg888GLI* »_i dont know if that quote for pag parts included the software but that was another 700 from unitronic.
im gonna get the ei5b or c if it comes out this summer hopfully.
~~~~~~~~~~~
could u run just the eo5b with nothing else... no software... no injectors... no maf... just switch turbos?

Yes, that is WITH sw. 
You _could_ run it with nothing else, but a 4bar fpr and stock boost would be all i would run


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_I do appreciate the input. And i will definitely look at injectors when and if I go Eo5b.
I believe this topic was brought up for people who didn't think K04 was a worthwile upgrade, but don't necessarily want the hassle/growing pains of going big turbo.
I still think that it is a great option for people who aren't shooting for 300+ HP

where is all this hassel? the same parts are being changed regardless of the turbo being used...and there is no way that turbo is gonna flow enough for 280 whp unless your dynoing in florida


----------



## Sketchykid (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

I was planing on doing a k04-02x, since i autocross and need torque asap. Anyone have a comparison between the E05b and a k04-02x?


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (Sketchykid)*

Why is there so much talk, and no doing? Why waste months speculating. Someone just get it and see. Its not THAT expensive.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_Why is there so much talk, and no doing? Why waste months speculating. Someone just get it and see. Its not THAT expensive.

I like this guy but I may just wait until the eo5c comes out


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

Hell i'd do it myself if I wasn't already running a REAL turbo


----------



## Scarab_Beetle (Dec 11, 2004)

there is so much misinfo in this thread its hysterical..... and then on top of it, the typical "well this SHOULD do this" and "this WILL do this" well.... how about you talk about it once it actually DOES it? There's been enough talk without proof, either install it, dyno it, and then talk all you want, or just shut up.
For 1200 bucks, and then the cost of software and fueling upgrades, you may as well pony up, and get a REAL turbo. Even if its a GT28R or a standard journal bearing T3.


----------



## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (Scarab_Beetle)*

well im a student and i dont have 1200 to spend on it right now... thats why im doing it this summer...
there was a dyno in the other thread... and it was good...
as for the 280whp... nitro can post up about that but his buddy or whatever did a 12.2 1/4 mile with a ko4-001 i believe... this is only bigger so it will flow more...


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (Gberg888GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gberg888GLI* »_well im a student and i dont have 1200 to spend on it right now... thats why im doing it this summer...
there was a dyno in the other thread... and it was good...
as for the 280whp... nitro can post up about that but his buddy or whatever did a 12.2 1/4 mile with a ko4-001 i believe... this is only bigger so it will flow more...

Yeah, and chim ran a 12.4 with a baby K03 too. Drag times mean nothing but the guy can drive, and the car is light enough. MPH means power.


----------



## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*

K04-20 is still bigger than the k03, k03sport, k04-001, and e05b. The only reason that you dont see k04-20's producing over 250 whp is because most of the k04-20 SW out there are designed conservatively to save rods. If the SW designers made more aggresive files for the k04-20 there would be alot of people blowing holes in their blocks due to alot of quick torque. Most of the k04-20 files are based on only 18 lbs of boost and 93 oct and that is why they produce anywhere from 220-235 whp and 280 wtrq. on 18lbs and 93 octane. Add race fuel, water meth, more timing, more boost, and upgraded rods and its a whole differant story. If you look at a k04-001 and k04-20 turbo the differance is in the power band. The k04-20 turbo holds the power throughout the powerband unlike the other k series turbos. But most of you guys only see the 2 second peak number that maxed out k03sports and k04-001 produce and think just cause it produces a high 2 second spike that it is better than a k04-20 or whatever. The k04-20 is bigger and therefore more efficient and should flow more. DOn't you guys think? And if you guys look in the audi tt mk1 classifieds a whole k04-20 kit can be had for under 1000.00 bucks.
K04-20 vs k03sport.










_Modified by 01gtiaww at 9:04 AM 11-19-2007_


----------



## grizzlyone (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01gtiaww* »_K04-20 is still bigger than the k03, k03sport, k04-001, and e05b. The only reason that you dont see k04-20's producing over 250 whp is because most of the k04-20 SW out there are designed conservatively to save rods. If the SW designers made more aggresive files for the k04-20 there would be alot of people blowing holes in their blocks due to alot of quick torque. Most of the k04-20 files are based on only 18 lbs of boost and 93 oct and that is why they produce anywhere from 220-235 whp and 280 wtrq. on 18lbs and 93 octane. Add race fuel, water meth, more timing, more boost, and upgraded rods and its a whole differant story. If you look at a k04-001 and k04-20 turbo the differance is in the power band. The k04-20 turbo holds the power throughout the powerband unlike the other k series turbos. But most of you guys only see the 2 second peak number that maxed out k03sports and k04-001 produce and think just cause it produces a high 2 second spike that it is better than a k04-20 or whatever. The k04-20 is bigger and therefore more efficient and should flow more. DOn't you guys think? And if you guys look in the audi tt mk1 classifieds a whole k04-20 kit can be had for under 1000.00 bucks.


Well of course the k03-20 series is larger than anything else we have talked about, even the E05b. But it also requires a completely different manifold, dp , tip, and feed lines. Not very much of a bolt on. And while it does make more power than any of the bolt turbos, if you were to get a new one and all the bits to install it you would spend far more money and really be into BT set costs at that point


----------



## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (grizzlyone)*

If you look at the TT mk1 classifieds a complete kit minus SW can be had for under 1000.00. SW should be 500.00 so for 1500.00 you can have a k04-20 kit. SOme of the guys on the k04-20 thread are selling complete kits plus SW for 1500.00. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I bought mine new for 2200 including SW. The good thing bout buying new is that it comes with a 100,000 mile warranty. Believe me it comes in handy . I'm on my second k04-20 and it was replaced for free. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Matter fact here is a complete kit for 520.00 shipped.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3537248

_Modified by 01gtiaww at 9:25 AM 11-19-2007_

_Modified by 01gtiaww at 9:54 AM 11-19-2007_


_Modified by 01gtiaww at 9:55 AM 11-19-2007_


----------



## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*

You're missing the point 01gtiaww. Anybody can say - oh but look in the classifieds you can get a (blank) for $$$. I could say, my buddy is selling his E05b for $100, so its a much better deal. Now all you people have to do is find a Eo5b for $100. The K04-020 set up brand new compared to E05b set up brand new is the most fair comparison. 
And like Grizzly said, the K04-020 set up is much like a BT set up. 
The E05b is a bolt on. So I think time and ease of installation has to factor in somewhere. Especially for the novices.


----------



## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (birdman61801)*

It's not much differant at all considering that when people who buy these k04-001 or e05b turbos don't see that they are producing a certain advertised horsepower they end up changing manifolds, injectors, MAFs, FPR's, adding water/meth, race fuel, etc., etc.. The cost at the end when everything is set and done is more or less the same when they could of just gotten a complete kit like a k04-20 kit that already comes with manifold, FPR, bigger injectors, MAF, etc ,etc. ANyone who buys a k series bolt on turbo does not just leave it as is. They always end up putting way more money into it than it's worth. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*

Quite honestly, for the price of the E05, and everyone's unwillingness to try it, I'd get a GT2x eliminator. It will make 250-260whp on a FWD setup, spools like stock, and is ~ $1200 for the turbo itself. Of course you'll still need software and fueling but 380's and a K04-20 tune would be great on this. 
On a buddy's B5 A4 Quattro we ran one with the GIAC PC-16 hammer file and it ran flawlessly. Car ran 13.0's @ 105mph on 14psi also with a stock intercooler.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_Quite honestly, for the price of the E05, and everyone's unwillingness to try it, I'd get a GT2x eliminator.
 
I am with Gberg888GLI on this point. Any turbo upgrade takes $, and I am sure those interested in this little bolt-on are waiting for a dyno over in the 337 forum to see how worthwhile this upgrade really is.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*

THis thread gets even more sad by the day. 
When you can get a ko4-2x kit in the classifieds for under $1k and with sw for about the cost of a e05 turbo alone makes it more than worthwhile. There are plenty of these turbos and setups to make them affordable for the people wanting something with a little more punch. You can complain that its not a direct swap, BUT EVERYTHING IS STOCK HARDWARE. No need to run a aftermarket manifold or anything else. So you know everything fits and needs 0 customization.
As for the gt2x, it is the same price as the e05 and will make far more power and longer like Ian (whiteg60) said. If your going to spend the money, might aswell get more for it. And its going to be a "strait bolt on" like a e05 also.
There are plenty more options for a simple upgrade.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
As for the gt2x, it is the same price as the e05 and will make far more power and longer like Ian (whiteg60) said. If your going to spend the money, might aswell get more for it. And its going to be a "strait bolt on" like a e05 also. 

With a GT2x turbo, don't you *have* to upgrade the DP? Don't you *have* to upgrade to a new manifold? Don't you *have* to get new charge pipe (at least to the pancake pipe)?


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
With a GT2x turbo, don't you *have* to upgrade the DP? Don't you *have* to upgrade to a new manifold? Don't you *have* to get new charge pipe (at least to the pancake pipe)?

nope, nope, and nope. Everything is a bolt on like a e05 like i said above. Everything you upgrade to make power with the e05, you would do with a gt2x but with better gains. 
So as said before, you would want a upgraded manifold and dp and all that, but you either already have it or can get it when the money comes in.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Looks like you need new charge pipe (at least to the pancake pipe):


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*

charge pipe is the same and the pancake pipe is *after* the charge pipe in the passenger wheel well.
If you mean tip, they send you something to use or you can use a 225 tip or just get a silcone elbow reducer.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_charge pipe is the same and the pancake pipe is *after* the charge pipe in the passenger wheel well.

This is what I was referring to. What is that part called, the 'Up/U-pipe?" From the turbo to the pancake pipe...


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*

i just call it the charge pipe or upper charge pipe.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_i just call it the charge pipe or upper charge pipe.

yeah, that one. It looks like it needs a new one with a GT2x turbo since the outlets appear different than a KO3/KO3s/KO4/E05/E05b.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_
Yeah, and chim ran a 12.4 with a baby K03 too. Drag times mean nothing but the guy can drive, and the car is light enough. MPH means power.

that is correct but they do share a relationship anyways his trap speed was 106 or 07 and with the nitrous it was 118. Id like to see a ko3s laydown a trapspeed like that.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01gtiaww* »_It's not much differant at all considering that when people who buy these k04-001 or e05b turbos don't see that they are producing a certain advertised horsepower they end up changing manifolds, injectors, MAFs, FPR's, adding water/meth, race fuel, etc., etc.. The cost at the end when everything is set and done is more or less the same when they could of just gotten a complete kit like a k04-20 kit that already comes with manifold, FPR, bigger injectors, MAF, etc ,etc. ANyone who buys a k series bolt on turbo does not just leave it as is. They always end up putting way more money into it than it's worth. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

very true yet in getting a ko4-001 or eo5b you do not have to fork over the capital as soon as you get it, you can basically look at it as a ko3s yet starting out with alot more room for play power wise. You can start off by installing injectors, turbo, software, fpr for around 1500 if you don't already have any of that already. Maybe you already have meth injection theres something else thats already taken care off, if your looking to upgrade for more power you pay as you go. with a ko4-020 you can only go so far with pushing the turbo, I'v e heard many people with problems with their kit, your at a set price of around 2400. Are people in this thread able to throw down 2400 on the spot, I don't think so thats why the e05b is being discussed. According to a source the eo5b is putting out power like that of the ko4-020 with just injectors, software, and 4bar fpr. Now we are just waiting on this guy to send me his dyno so that we know what its capable of. He's predicting 300whp I'm just curious to see the powerband. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_THis thread gets even more sad by the day. 
When you can get a ko4-2x kit in the classifieds for under $1k and with sw for about the cost of a e05 turbo alone makes it more than worthwhile. There are plenty of these turbos and setups to make them affordable for the people wanting something with a little more punch. You can complain that its not a direct swap, BUT EVERYTHING IS STOCK HARDWARE. No need to run a aftermarket manifold or anything else. So you know everything fits and needs 0 customization.
As for the gt2x, it is the same price as the e05 and will make far more power and longer like Ian (whiteg60) said. If your going to spend the money, might aswell get more for it. And its going to be a "strait bolt on" like a e05 also.
There are plenty more options for a simple upgrade.










yeahhh if I want an iffy setup, have you seen the hot side of a gt2x? they are small as hell no wonder why I see them gawn blow up. same with the eliminator kit for the gt28r or gt2871 they are basically the same turbo as any other gt28r or gt2871 but hey have extremely small hot sides.


_Modified by Nitro7853 at 10:37 AM 11-19-2007_


----------



## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_
He's predicting 300whp I'm just curious to see the powerband. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'd love to see that dyno. I still can't figure out how that little snail can push that much power, even if it is a spike.


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_
He's predicting 300whp I'm just curious to see the powerband. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








good luck w/ that


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (IzVW)*

his ported head and mani should help (I think its eurospecs, not an easy task doing that yourself) water/meth helps the snail push


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (the awesome)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the awesome* »_







good luck w/ that

x2

_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_

yeahhh if I want an iffy setup, have you seen the hot side of a gt2x? they are small as hell no wonder why I see them gawn blow up

So is the ko3/4. BTW, you have a lifetime pass on your friends nuts? You seem to mention him in each one of your post


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

lol wo wooooow guy first of all I don't even know you and your insulting me, second of all this guy is just someone I came acrossed in speculation of this turbo. I've posted his time slip and both trap speed and et indicate 270whp which he's dyno'ed at. That was running 20psi and apr software that he customized using vtune, now he's tuning with giac's software for a more aggressive tune so who knows. Its probably just a spike but thats why I mentioned that I'm curious to see the power band so I can know what he's holding till redline







we don't have to be immature here


----------



## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_his ported head and mani should help (I think its eurospecs, not an easy task doing that yourself) water/meth helps the snail push









I know, I have WAI on my GT28R.








300 HP spike would still impress the isht out of me. I feel that saying this turbo can push that much could be misleading to people that don't know better. And even if it spiked to 300 it's not going to hold.
But who knows for sure until we see a dyno, I will give you that....


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

i found a top secret dyno


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (the awesome)*

Special florida dyno?








Ok guys, lets lay off the insults and see what unfolds when a dyno gets posted.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (IzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IzVW* »_
I know, I have WAI on my GT28R.








300 HP spike would still impress the isht out of me. I feel that saying this turbo can push that much could be misleading to people that don't know better. And even if it spiked to 300 it's not going to hold.
But who knows for sure until we see a dyno, I will give you that....

I was extremly suprised when I seen that time slip and those numbers out of that turbo, but even if it holds 240-250 at redline I maybe sold on this turbo.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (the awesome)*








He lives just about as far away as you can get from florida, he's in Oregon


----------



## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

ok ok ok ...
First off... that 280whp was with all the bolts on for the ko4... it was a 75 shot i believe with Water/Meth. So without those ull be seeing the 240whp mark with the eo5b which is my guess...
2nd of all... ok ur so aweomse guys... you found one kit for the ko4-20x for 500 bucks... and guess what.. the ****ing turbo blew on it. u wonder why nobody was buying it and we werent interested in it... the real pro import kit runs 2400 or whateevr... thats twice for the same power installed bare as the eo5b is projected to have... hell a slightly pushed ko4-001 can make it to 240whp... where is the worth of the ko4-02x now?
3rd... no one will push the ko4-02x because to push it u need rods... in which case u migh as well really save up for a real BT because then your really in its price range. That is a real answer... spend just under 2gs on a turbo kit that doesnt need anything cept the turbo injectors maf and FPR for under 2gs is nice... and easy to do... spending 2400 on a ko4-02x which u cant even push because it will blow up your engine is stupid when u can spend 3 on a t3s60 and have the choice to go bigger or go with a gt28rs or something thats a bt kit from pag parts
4th... people really looking at this turbo dont want to spend over 2gs... they dont want supper power... they just want more than the ko3.
5th... the eliminators are the most stupid things ever... its like lets take a good turbo then cut its power giving side off and put on a **** one... its a hybrid piece of ****. Plus they take forever to spool because the one side is sooo damn big and the other side is too small to fed it the air it needs... plus they cost 1200 at the elast... and u need software, injectors, the time to deal with the TIP for those... especially on the 6spds... its a bitch... and deff not DIY or perfectly done... you have to make your own brackets for gods sake. the eliminators just suck in every way...



_Modified by Gberg888GLI at 2:23 PM 11-19-2007_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Gberg888GLI)*

e05 vs gt2x =


----------



## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_e05 vs gt2x = 









TIMMY!!!!


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

this post clearly shows your intelligence


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

that both are stupid and not worth it.... w/e you say


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

Dammit, why can't there be just one ****ing discussion on this site about KO3/KO4 and derivative turbos that doesn't have some know-it-all(s) interjecting about BT this and BT that??
There are myriad reasons why people may not want a BT. They aren't for everyone, mmkay? Save the bandwidth and stop derailing the damn threads already.
/rant


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_this post clearly shows your intelligence

and this proves yours

_Quote, originally posted by *Gberg888GLI* »_
First off... that 280whp was with all the bolts on for the ko4... it was a 75 shot i believe with Water/Meth. So without those ull be seeing the 240whp mark with the eo5b which is my guess...


u forgot to mention a 75 shot


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

This thread rocks! I can't wait to get my Eo5b and post some results. Not everyone has 3,4,5,...10g's for a BT set up - nor wants one.


----------



## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_This thread rocks! I can't wait to get my Eo5b and post some results. Not everyone has 3,4,5,...10g's for a BT set up - nor wants one.

Well, it _did_ rock until some people decided to derail the thread with their unwanted BT opinions.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
Well, it _did_ rock until some people decided to derail the thread with their unwanted BT opinions.









only on the vortex


----------



## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

And by the way.
The e05b kit just keeps getting cheaper.
vag-parts.com 
e05b = $1095


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_And by the way.
The e05b kit just keeps getting cheaper.
vag-parts.com 
e05b = $1095

Oooo, and the plot thickens....


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
Well, it _did_ rock until some people decided to derail the thread with their unwanted BT opinions.









you people are talking about 250-300whp with a e05 and get pissed when people say its wiser to just spend a tiny bit more for a turbo that will do those numbers with less work and have a much broader powerband.








If you try something like 220-230whp with 260-280tq is one thing, but when you talk about pushing the turbo to beyond its limits and spending upwards of the same amount to get it there as the t3s60 or ko4-2x kits doesnt make sense to logical people. Plus most people when they upgrade dont just want a turbo to spike a drop, they want a full usable power band like you would get with the ko4-2x and t3s60. Both will hold over a bar at readline where the ko3(s) housing turbos cant.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

we can go on forever on this subject, but all your reasoning doesn't put the cash in anyones hand for a bt kit. Its just like me saying hey I can either max out my e05 and get 280whp or I can spend 3g's (thats without fuel pump injectors and clutch) on a cheap big turbo setup for my car and have to worry about snaping a rod. 


_Modified by Nitro7853 at 12:21 PM 11-19-2007_


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_e05 vs gt2x = 









Depends on what you're looking for. GT2x is by FAR a better option than an e05b if you ask me. Its ~ the same price, still bolts on, makes better power, and holds it longer with stock like spool. What more do you want if thats the kind of turbo upgrade you're looking for?


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_we can go on forever on this subject, but all your reasoning doesn't put the cash in anyones hand for a bt kit. Its just like me saying hey I can either max out my e05 and get 280whp or I can spend 3g's on a cheap big turbo setup for my car and have to worry about snaping a rod. 

I'd think you're worry MORE about breaking a rod when you're spiking 300+wtq @ 2500-3000rpm than making 350ftlbs @ 4500-5000rpm...


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_we can go on forever on this subject, but all your reasoning doesn't put the cash in anyones hand for a bt kit. Its just like me saying hey I can either max out my e05 and get 280whp or I can spend 3g's (thats without fuel pump injectors and clutch) on a cheap big turbo setup for my car and have to worry about snaping a rod. 



With $3k you get EVERYTHING for the t3s60 kit. Plus how long do you think your clutch and rods will last if you make 280whp with a e05? You know how massive the tq spike will be? Your still going to need a clutch with a eo5, just look at theswoleguy's ko3 thread. He is burning up his ecs stg1 clutch on his ko3, same with a guy with a FWD TT with just a custom UNI tune, nothing else.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*

have you run an eliminator and know of its reliability? I could get a gt2871 eliminator for like 1700 not including fuel pump and injectors not to mention software thats well over the price of an eo5b. Surre it looks like a great solution but I've been told from alot of different people that they tend to blow up because of the undersized hotsides made to fit on stock mani


_Modified by Nitro7853 at 12:32 PM 11-19-2007_


----------



## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_you people are talking about 250-300whp with a e05 and get pissed when people say its wiser to just spend a tiny bit more for a turbo that will do those numbers with less work and have a much broader powerband.









Sorry, but that's not what it's about. A post from you on page 4, for instance:
"_THis thread gets even more sad by the day. 
When you can get a ko4-2x kit in the classifieds for under $1k and with sw for about the cost of a e05 turbo alone makes it more than worthwhile. There are plenty of these turbos and setups to make them affordable for the people wanting something with a little more punch. You can complain that its not a direct swap, BUT EVERYTHING IS STOCK HARDWARE. No need to run a aftermarket manifold or anything else. So you know everything fits and needs 0 customization.
As for the gt2x, it is the same price as the e05 and will make far more power and longer like Ian (whiteg60) said. If your going to spend the money, might aswell get more for it. And its going to be a "strait bolt on" like a e05 also.
There are plenty more options for a simple upgrade._"
here you're simply pushing the BT 'cause it's the better bang for the buck. Yes, I think people get it by now that the BT will make more power than the E05. So what? Not everyone wants that. Bigger is not always better. 
I just perused the 1.8T Tech forum and what do I see but a tale of some guy with deep pockets that ventilated his crankcase using a BT with pretty moderate settings on a stock bottom end. You think everyone wants to live that close to the edge? You think everyone can afford to risk sacrificing their DD?

_Quote »_If you try something like 220-230whp with 260-280tq is one thing...

It's easy to correct someone on the power potential of the smaller turbos without derailing the thread into a pissing contest about BTs and band-for-the-buck ratios.

_Quote »_Plus most people when they upgrade dont just want a turbo to spike a drop, they want a full usable power band like you would get with the ko4-2x and t3s60. Both will hold over a bar at readline where the ko3(s) housing turbos cant.

And many more people aren't satisfied that over-the-counter "eliminator" options and kits will offer them the refinement and DD reliability they seek. To them a moderate increase in performance, factory-stock appearance and reliability of the engine and driveline trumps the absolute need to hold 20PSI to redline.


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

I think we all should just remove our turbos....go N/A and spray a 300 shot. Cheaper then a turbo kit. The you can even offset the cost by selling all the stock hardware.


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

true you will need to upgrade the clutch, but not right away, as for the rods I have yet to see anyone take out their rods using a ko4, even with 75shot, boosting at 27psi. But I see what your getting at with reaching your torque peek at low rpm.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_And many more people aren't satisfied that over-the-counter "eliminator" options and kits will offer them the refinement and DD reliability they seek. To them a moderate increase in performance, factory-stock appearance and reliability of the engine and driveline trumps the absolute need to hold 20PSI to redline.


Thanks Blackfin, that was very well put http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
Sorry, but that's not what it's about. A post from you on page 4, for instance:
"_THis thread gets even more sad by the day. 
When you can get a ko4-2x kit in the classifieds for under $1k and with sw for about the cost of a e05 turbo alone makes it more than worthwhile. There are plenty of these turbos and setups to make them affordable for the people wanting something with a little more punch. You can complain that its not a direct swap, BUT EVERYTHING IS STOCK HARDWARE. No need to run a aftermarket manifold or anything else. So you know everything fits and needs 0 customization.
As for the gt2x, it is the same price as the e05 and will make far more power and longer like Ian (whiteg60) said. If your going to spend the money, might aswell get more for it. And its going to be a "strait bolt on" like a e05 also.
There are plenty more options for a simple upgrade._"
here you're simply pushing the BT 'cause it's the better bang for the buck. Yes, I think people get it by now that the BT will make more power than the E05. So what? Not everyone wants that. Bigger is not always better. 
I just perused the 1.8T Tech forum and what do I see but a tale of some guy with deep pockets that ventilated his crankcase using a BT with pretty moderate settings on a stock bottom end. You think everyone wants to live that close to the edge? You think everyone can afford to risk sacrificing their DD?
It's easy to correct someone on the power potential of the smaller turbos without derailing the thread into a pissing contest about BTs and band-for-the-buck ratios.
*And many more people aren't satisfied that over-the-counter "eliminator" options and kits will offer them the refinement and DD reliability they seek. To them a moderate increase in performance, factory-stock appearance and reliability of the engine and driveline trumps the absolute need to hold 20PSI to redline.* 

 
But the e05 is known to be UN-RELIABLE. The huge tq spikes low in the rpm's are known to break rods.....and it's easier driving a DD with a larger turbo as the small KKK variants boost way to quickly low in the rpms try seach "surge" and see how many KKK variant turbos do it with just a chip.....


_Modified by T-Boy at 3:39 PM 11-19-2007_


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_I think we all should just remove our turbos....go N/A and spray a 300 shot. Cheaper then a turbo kit. The you can even offset the cost by selling all the stock hardware.









I'm in


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_
I'm in 

Sweet!.......you first...


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

How many people do you know that have snapped rods with an E05b?
How many E05b owners do you know that said they were unreliable?


----------



## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

All you guys are talking about not being able to afford BT setups or k04-20 setups, yet you are willing to try and push a tiny e05b turbo to 300whp/wtrq without upgrading rods? How much do you think it will cost to fix that big hole in your block when a rod pushes through it??? WHy do you think the first e05 was a big failure???










_Modified by 01gtiaww at 3:42 PM 11-19-2007_


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_How many people do you know that have snapped rods with an E05b?
How many E05b owners do you know that said they were unreliable?

Search around and you might answer your own question.
How many of you have driven a BT car to be able to compare you daily driving experience? Only reason why I'm saying this is because I've been in your shoe....maxed out k03, maxed out k04, maxed out k04 with a 50 shot, apr stage 3......ect ect. 
I could have save a lot of money doing it right the first time....just trying to help others out.


_Modified by T-Boy at 3:50 PM 11-19-2007_


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

I have searched every post about the e05b. I found one person who blew their e05b. He hasn't returned my PM.








And that was just the turbo. And who knows for what reason.
All other posts have been positive.


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_ 
But the e05 is known to be UN-RELIABLE. The huge tq spikes low in the rpm's are known to break rods.....and it's easier driving a DD with a larger turbo as the small KKK variants boost way to quickly low in the rpms try seach "surge" and see how many KKK variant turbos do it with just a chip.....

_Modified by T-Boy at 3:39 PM 11-19-2007_

The eo5 was known as unreliable, What have you heard about the eo5b? I have yet to see a single thread on rods breaking because of a ko4's tq spike.


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*

wish I had the money to blow on a reliable bt setup, but I've been quoted 2300 for an atp gt2871 hardware kit from bsh and thats without fueling(injectors, fpr, fuel pump about 600 all together), stage 3 clutch ~700 am I missing anything ?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_
The eo5 was known as unreliable, What have you heard about the eo5b? I have yet to see a single thread on rods breaking because of a ko4's tq spike. 

you did see the stg3+ guy that blew his engine with a "safe" kit? The e05 can make simular amount of tq almost 2k rpms sooner than a gt28rs, talk about not safe pushing it to the limits. It was meant to be an easier swap than a ko4-2x. Meaning it is meant to make like i said before 220-240whp and 260-280wtq. More than that and you are asking for trouble. Like people have said, you dont want to blow your DD
Me and others arent hating on you for the turbo choice, its the goals and the risks you are talking by doing it.


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_
The eo5 was known as unreliable, What have you heard about the eo5b? I have yet to see a single thread on rods breaking because of a ko4's tq spike. 

Search for wuzupfoo he blew a rod with his k04-20. Because of him is that we k04-20 owners do not push the k04-20 to its max without upgrading rods. Here is the link to the thread.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2167511


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (T-Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Boy* »_But the e05 is known to be UN-RELIABLE. The huge tq spikes low in the rpm's are known to break rods.....and it's easier driving a DD with a larger turbo as the small KKK variants boost way to quickly low in the rpms try seach "surge" and see how many KKK variant turbos do it with just a chip.....

The early EO5s had reliability problems due to the small shafts. As I understand it, later versions -- the topic of this thread -- do not suffer this problem.
I've never heard of anyone breaking a connecting rod using a KO3, KO4 or EO5 turbo. I'm sure it can happen with a hacked-together setup involving cranked wastegates, nitrous, a bad tune and so on. But that's not what most people seeking to upgrade one or two notches from their KO3(s) are likely to do. For those that do, yeah, a BT would probably have been the better way to go. Then again, they are probably the types that wouldn't be satisfied with their BTs either and would start screwing around with MBC settings and upping boost and ...
As for spooling, second only to reliability and a clean install is the fact that the smaller turbos spool quickly. Whenever I see a dyno of a 350HP 1.8T I also see the thing is gutless below 4500RPM and wonder "how the hell can you be happy with that on the street?" To each his own I guess but for a commuter/daily driver, a quick spooling smaller turbo that gives up some high RPM flow for low RPM responsiveness suits me just fine. And people who "fix" boost spikes using _any_ turbo with a diode are just asking for a hole in the crankcase...



_Modified by Blackfin at 1:12 PM 11-19-2007_


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*

Search for wuzupfoo he blew a rod with his k04-20. Because of him is that we k04-20 owners do not push the k04-20 to its max without upgrading rods. Here is the link to the thread.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2167511


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
The e05 can make simular amount of tq almost 2k rpms sooner than a gt28rs, talk about not safe pushing it to the limits. 


Can you please supply the dyno results to prove this. We've all been waiting to see them.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
would start screwing around with MBC settings and upping boost and ...


MBC are not bad or evil, they are useful and do much more than increase boost pressure.

_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
Whenever I see a dyno of a 350HP 1.8T I also see the thing is gutless below 4500RPM and wonder "how the hell can you be happy with that on the street?" To each his own I guess 


350HP or 350whp? A gt2871r would make 350whp with pump and w/m and would still have 20+ psi before 4k. Not sure about you, but im barely ever under 3k and with a 2871r, you would still be making boost in that rpm range. But thats not the point of the thread.


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
And people who "fix" boost spikes using _any_ turbo with a diode are just asking for a hole in the crankcase...


You fix a boost spike with a mbc, perferably a ebc or bleed valve mbc. Again, they do more than up the boost.

_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_
Can you please supply the dyno results to prove this. We've all been waiting to see them.

The turbine wheels are the same size as the other ko3 turbos, just have a better flowing compressor wheel. Now go look at the differnce in other gt turbos spool within a family (gt28, gt30 etc). The spool is only about 200-300 differnt with a slightly larger compressor wheel. So instead of having peak torque at ~2500rpms like a ko3, its going to be ~2800rpms, compared to about ~4800rpms with a gt28rs.








_Modified by cincyTT at 4:29 PM 11-19-2007_


_Modified by cincyTT at 4:32 PM 11-19-2007_


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## Scarab_Beetle (Dec 11, 2004)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
The early EO5s had reliability problems due to the small shafts. As I understand it, later versions -- the topic of this thread -- do not suffer this problem.
I've never heard of anyone breaking a connecting rod using a KO3, KO4 or EO5 turbo. I'm sure it can happen with a hacked-together setup involving cranked wastegates, nitrous, a bad tune and so on. But that's not what most people seeking to upgrade one or two notches from their KO3(s) are likely to do. For those that do, yeah, a BT would probably have been the better way to go. Then again, they are probably the types that wouldn't be satisfied with their BTs either and would start screwing around with MBC settings and upping boost and ...
As for spooling, second only to reliability and a clean install is the fact that the smaller turbos spool quickly. Whenever I see a dyno of a 350HP 1.8T I also see the thing is gutless below 4500RPM and wonder "how the hell can you be happy with that on the street?" To each his own I guess but for a commuter/daily driver, a quick spooling smaller turbo that gives up some high RPM flow for low RPM responsiveness suits me just fine. And people who "fix" boost spikes using _any_ turbo with a diode are just asking for a hole in the crankcase...
_Modified by Blackfin at 1:12 PM 11-19-2007_

Dude, next time you're out driving normally, watch your boost guage and tell me when you feel you need 20psi+ below 4500 rpm.... WHen you're RACING, which is the only intelligent reason to even BOTHER upgrading your turbo, the only time you're going to be below 4500 is on the launch, and VW already made sure your first gear is so short that you don't want a massive low rpm torque spike then. Or you can try this; from a standing start, drop the hammer in first gear and see how long you spend below 4500 rpm. Daily driving is partial throttle in that range, so anything you see on a dyno done at full throttle doesn't apply anyway. The way I can instantly tell the people who are full of **** from the ones who know a thing or two is when i see them start blabbering about "lag", "spool" and worst of all, "low end torque". You want all your power below 4500 rpm? Buy a TDI. Gas engines are meant to have broad powerbands, not massive amounts of torque in a narrow rpm band.
The reason why people keep bringing up the connecting rod breakage issue is because its been seen before, and when you compare the graphs, the majority of cars that broke rods under the 350hp mark were the ones making ridiculous amounts of torque at low rpm. So you want something thats going to bolt into the stock location, but is that little bit of convenience going to be worth going into your block to replace rods when you really want to push what you have to its full potential?
This is what drives me nuts about these posts, you guys come in here asking for opinions from people with more experience than you, and when you get an answer you don't like, you want to argue. Some of the people who have chimed in here are people who have gone through a BUNCH of different setups before arriving where they are now. DonR, WhiteG60, Dizzy, all of these guys are people who can be considered the OG's of this forum. They aren't going to point you wrong. Most of them have cars that are faster than most of ours will ever be. They didn't get there by not knowing what they're talking about. If you really want to blow your wad on an E05, be my guest, but don't be surprised when even after all the tuning and supporting mods in the world barely get you to 250whp. When you tally that cost up and then realize you could have had a much more driveable car with more power by having taken a little more time to save up and buy a more properly matched turbo, don't come crying to us. But meanwhile, here you guys are, swearing your oaths of allegiance to the E05, without any of you actually owning one, and I STILL haven't seen a dyno or datalog to back up any of these claims.


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

at what milage did he's engine blow?, He was on the gt28rs right ? They recomend you get new rods with the stage 3+, there are so many factors that could have lead to the distruction of that engine. And being so I'm sure if it was the kit and not just the owner pushing it too far I'm sure apr would have done somthing about it. If you have money for a kit like that and 100k miles later you don't rip it apart to check cylinder or bearing wear your insane.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Scarab_Beetle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scarab_Beetle* »_
Dude, next time you're out driving normally, watch your boost guage and tell me when you feel you need 20psi+ below 4500 rpm.... WHen you're RACING, which is the only intelligent reason to even BOTHER upgrading your turbo, <snip> You want all your power below 4500 rpm? Buy a TDI. Gas engines are meant to have broad powerbands, not massive amounts of torque in a narrow rpm band.

Probably not going to help, but try thinking outside of your drag racing box for a moment. There are plenty of instances where I wish I had had more power below *3000 RPM*, let alone 4500 rpm. I understand I could probably just throw in a chip and call it good, but that idea doesn't fly well with me seeing as how these itty-bitty K03s' are being put within an inch of their life at that point.
Everyone is always saying that a bigger turbo at the same boost level is going to generate less heat and be more reliable. That is the reasoning (at least in my eyes) behind getting a K04-001 or stepping up to either a EO5b or GT2x. From the many readings I have done on this forum, it seems a T3 (or equivilant) can be even more reliable with even more room to grow, but there is a significant cost increase to get a T3 (or equivilant) as opposed to just an EO5b/K04-001/GT2x.
So either spend $1300 MAX on *just a turbo* for a bump in power and possibly an increase in reliability over a KO3s at an equivilant boost pressure (this is strictly theoretical at this point), or spend that and then some for a T3 (or equivilant "real BT"), TIP, DP, manifold, new charge piping, possibly new intercooler, software, etc.
My personal needs won't require more than 250whp, and I will be more than happy with 220whp (or around there) for quite a while. Yeah, a T3 (or equivilant) will supposedly be more reliable than an EO5b at the same power level, but I can't justify spending $2,000 or more and having to deal with a lot of spare parts when a $1300 max turbo upgrade will suit my needs perfectly, and the only spare part is the turbo (so ease of going back to OEM is there).


_Modified by abawp at 2:35 PM 11-19-2007_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
Probably not going to help, but try thinking outside of your drag racing box for a moment. There are plenty of instances where I wish I had had more power below 3000 RPMlet alone 4500 rpm. I understand *I could probably just throw in a chip and call it good*but that idea doesn't fly well with me seeing as how these itty-bitty K03s' are being put within an inch of their life at that point.


How are you talking about a bigger turbos when you dont even have a chip or a diode?








That alone gives you about 50tq jump between 2k-4k.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
How are you talking about a bigger turbo when you dont even have a chip or a diode?









Read further








From what it seems, a K03s is pushing it in stock form (.8 bar), and upping the boost pressure further just makes it an expensive hair dryer (I do, on occassion, spend sometime in the upper RPM band). Just doesn't seem to fly well with me in the reliability aspect of upgrades. I don't think 220whp is reliably achievable with the stock unit (read: I don't want to tear into the engine at 150,000 miles because the turbo blew), as there are _plenty_ of stories of folks burning out a stock turbo with diode+mbc or 19psi chips.


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
I understand I could probably just throw in a chip and call it good, but that idea doesn't fly well with me seeing as how these itty-bitty K03s' are being put within an inch of their life at that point.


the ko3(s) are pretty bullet proof little turbos, people have put over 100k chipped hard miles on them, it has proven itself reliable, the eo5 has not

_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
Everyone is always saying that a bigger turbo at the same boost level is going to generate less heat and be more reliable. That is the reasoning (at least in my eyes) behind getting a K04-001 or stepping up to either a EO5b or GT2x. From the many readings I have done on this forum, it seems a T3 (or equivilant) can be even more reliable with even more room to grow, but there is a significant cost increase to get a T3 (or equivilant) as opposed to just an EO5b/K04-001/GT2x.
So either spend $1300 MAX on *just a turbo* for a bump in power and possibly an increase in reliability over a KO3s at an equivilant boost pressure (this is strictly theoretical at this point), or spend that and then some for a T3 (or equivilant "real BT"), TIP, DP, manifold, new charge piping, possibly new intercooler, software, etc.
My personal needs won't require more than 250whp, and I will be more than happy with 220whp (or around there) for quite a while. Yeah, a T3 (or equivilant) will supposedly be more reliable than an EO5b at the same power level, but I can't justify spending $2,000 or more and having to deal with a lot of spare parts when a $1300 max turbo upgrade will suit my needs perfectly, and the only spare part is the turbo (so ease of going back to OEM is there).


your missing the point, in order to extract all the power you guys are expecting out of these turbos you are going to have to put $$ into a lot of extra stuff. the person nitro was touting as having 280 whp w/ a ko4-001 and going for 300 whp w/ the eo5 has the hi-flow mani, sw, injectors, w/m and a 75 shot of nitrous to make that. You are realistically not going to crack 240 whp w/ that turbo. U could run a t3 s60 or even a gtx elim at 12-13 psi w/ stock injectors, IC etc make equal to more power and have a much better powerband. As u save money u can get sw, injectors, IC etc and up the boost.


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## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (abawp)*

this thread hurts my head.








a lot of you need a lot of help.
but just like Miss Spears....you wont take it when its offered.


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## passatG60 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

these are ill concieved ideas. a good premise, but extremely ill concieved. they throw a bigger comp wheel and a bigger turbine on an already small housing setup that falls on its face at 5.5k. What you're going to end up w/ is an extremely hot environment and surging. engine is choked up at the turbine, intake side will be backed up as the engine up high wont be able to spit out exhaust efficiently enough. this leads to a hotter engine, EGT's will be very high. If you know anything about internal combustion engines, you'll know that heat is basically your #1 enemy and these types of setups build plenty of that. I'm not going to sway anyone into anything, just stating some facts here. This is a total bandaid approach and these types of products are for ppl that think along the lines of ppl in this thread, not for ppl that know what they're looking at.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
Read further








From what it seems, a K03s is pushing it in stock form (.8 bar), and upping the boost pressure further just makes it an expensive hair dryer (I do, on occassion, spend sometime in the upper RPM band). Just doesn't seem to fly well with me in the reliability aspect of upgrades. I don't think 220whp is reliably achievable with the stock unit (read: I don't want to tear into the engine at 150,000 miles because the turbo blew), as there are _plenty_ of stories of folks burning out a stock turbo with diode+mbc or 19psi chips.

you have no idea whats going on do you? The ko3, ko4 and e05 are all going to spool the same and have roughly the same powerband. There are plenty of people making 220whp on the stock turbo and all it took was the basic bolt ons and w/m. No need for larger injectors, manifold and all that crap. 
Just because you see 1 or 2 people have a turbo die early doesnt mean they all will. The turbo's life depends on how the owner treats the car and not the amount of boost the car runs (within effiency). Your turbo will last 1000's of miles longer with a chip running 22psi and treated well (proper warm up and cool down) than a turbo at stock psi and just started then driven and then shut off w/o given a chance to cool. So i think your in over your head and its really becoming more evident in every post. Read through the dyno thread above and for more people claiming theit turbos fail. 1 in 300 (just a guess) may fail before 100k regaurdless of chip, diode or stock


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (the awesome)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the awesome* »_your missing the point, in order to extract all the power you guys are expecting out of these turbos you are going to have to put $$ into a lot of extra stuff. the person nitro was touting as having 280 whp w/ a ko4-001 and going for 300 whp w/ the eo5 has the hi-flow mani, sw, injectors, w/m and a 75 shot of nitrous to make that. You are realistically not going to crack 240 whp w/ that turbo. U could run a t3 s60 or even a gtx elim at 12-13 psi w/ stock injectors, IC etc make equal to more power and have a much better powerband. As u save money u can get sw, injectors, IC etc and up the boost. 

I don't think I am missing the point at all. Lets compare Apples to Apples here:
New T3 - $625
New T3 flanged exhaust manifold - $395
New TIP - $149*
New DP - $395
So thats a grand total of $1,564, never mind the fact that there is nothing going from the compressor to the intercooler (couldn't find any parts here). Thats *JUST* hardware to get the T3 to bolt up to the 1.8t engine. Now onto the GT2x:
New GT2x turbo - $1390
New TIP - $179.99*
So $1569.99 to get a GT2x to bolt up, so pretty much same as a T3. I can see how this won't make sense, but look at some of the smaller turbo "upgrades":
EO5b:
New EO5b - $1200
K04:
New K04 - $825
So all of these turbochargers can be used with stock management, stock injectors, stock MAF, stock charge piping and intercooler, and all these turbochargers will get me to my power goals of 220whp (of course, not without some work from the K04 and E05b). Can someone explain why the T3 is still "better?"








*Probably not the right part, but its good enough for a ballpark figure here.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
all these turbochargers will get me to my power goals of 220whp (of course, not without some work from the K04 and E05b).

Again, if you want 220whp, all you need is your stock turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
now you just need to get it there and if you want say 25 or so more whp, then add in the e05. You are doing step 10 before you even do step 1. Plus by that time you will either hear +/- on the turbo.


_Modified by cincyTT at 6:36 PM 11-19-2007_


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## DIAF (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
So all of these turbochargers can be used with stock management, stock injectors, stock MAF, stock charge piping and intercooler, and all these turbochargers will get me to my power goals of 220whp (of course, not without some work from the K04 and E05b). Can someone explain why the T3 is still "better?"









I think the reason why the T3 is better is because 220 whp will not be enough once you've had it for a while, and the T3 setup has the most headroom out of the above mentioned options. You can use any t3 flanged turbo with your manifold/downpipe and keep moving up in power when the feeling strikes.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
Again, if you want 220whp, all you need is your stock turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
now you just need to get it there and if you want say 25 or so more whp, then add in the e05. You are doing step 10 before you even do step 1. Plus by that time you will either hear +/- on the turbo.

Again, I understand this. You can get 260ish whp out of a KO3s, but that doesn't mean its as reliable as a larger turbo at the same power output. I am going to diode+MBC my car eventually, so I may be at 220whp at that point (or close to it), I am just trying not to burn out the turbo for when I want a bit more power.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
Again, I understand this. 


you sure?









_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
You can get 260ish whp out of a KO3s, but that doesn't mean its as reliable as a larger turbo at the same power output. 

Again, dont think you understand that Sav did that to test the extremes before he put on a gt2871r. That is in no way going to last very long and HE knew this. Pushing a turbo out of its effiency range kills it quickly.

_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
I am going to diode+MBC my car eventually, so I may be at 220whp at that point (or close to it), I am just trying not to burn out the turbo for when I want a bit more power.

You will be in the 190-200whp range with that sort of setup. your going to need a chip and a bit more to get to your 220whp mark. But you still arent taking into consideration the tq and how much and how fast it comes in.


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
So all of these turbochargers can be used with stock management, stock injectors, stock MAF, stock charge piping and intercooler, and all these turbochargers will get me to my power goals of 220whp (of course, not without some work from the K04 and E05b). Can someone explain why the T3 is still "better?"








*Probably not the right part, but its good enough for a ballpark figure here.

powerband, efficiency and the ability to upgrade


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
you sure?










Yes, and here is why:

_Quote »_
Again, dont think you understand that Sav did that to test the extremes before he put on a gt2871r. That is in no way going to last very long and HE knew this. *Pushing a turbo out of its effiency range kills it quickly.*

This is what I am trying to avoid with "upgrading" to the EO5b. Whenever I get off my lazy arse and get to a track (road course), thats a lot of time that KO3s is going to spend outside its efficiency range if I bump up boost to 16 or so psi.
Again, according to everyone here, the T3 will be generating less heat and be more reliable in the end than the KO3s, but if I can get the same or similar reliability out of an EO5b, then its the way to go in my eyes.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*

the ko3 is fine running 20-22psi day in and day out. Its the people that try boosting 26+ psi and/or crank down the wastegate to make it hold the boost as long as possible that damage the turbo.
rpms dont change the turbos efficincy... LOL
You still have plenty to learn. Your safest bet would be to chip it and add a full exhaust and go from there.


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## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (the awesome)*

the 75 shot was in there moron
_Quote, originally posted by *the awesome* »_
and this proves yours
u forgot to mention a 75 shot


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (Gberg888GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gberg888GLI* »_the 75 shot was in there moron

actually hoss re-read the post and who i was responding to, i wasn't referring to you, i was referring to nitro who stated someone put down 280 wheel w/ a k04 & was looking for 300 w/ the e05, he didn't mention the 75 shot


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_rpms dont change the turbos efficincy... LOL


Why wouldn't it? Both an engine and a turbo are basically pumps. In order to increase flow capacity (CFM), you need to increase speed of the pump. The turbo follows the same principle, except in order to maintain a specified boost pressure as CFM climbs from the engine pump, it too must increase CFM output.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (abawp)*

^^^^^The specifics of turbocharger efficiency, along with any other thermodynamic device, principle, or process for that matter, shoud not be "assumed" to occur in any certain way or follow any certain path. Your getting into very fishy territory hear...trust me


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (abawp)*

And another thing...
I'm am currently full on into a little k04-001 experiment. I too thought that I would be all good by just bolting on the turbo and going at it. Boy was I WRONG!!!! The turbo alone will barely make a difference. Seriously, you will be sad in a few days after you think how much time and money you spent on such a small gain.

That isn't to say that you cannot have fun with these things. They are capable of making decent numbers @ lower RPM's; the kind of power that, though dangerous, really throws your head back and gives you butterflies (not saying that this not possible in a BT, quite the contrary). However, to get the kind of power that you guys are expecting out of these turbos RELIABLY (the kind of power that makes the turbo upgrade as a whole worthwhile) requires way more than the turbo alone. You will need new injectors, MAF, manifold, WAI, software, etc. Trust me, with the EO5b on meth you will be maxing your MAF to the brink of destruction and your injectors will be at 100% duty cycle (not a safe combo, ask anyone).
I started with a k04-001, and now the only thing that seperates me from the k04-02X kit is the turbo. I personally do not regret going with the -001, becasue I should be making similar numbers as the -02X in the end. It is just that I could have bought an antire k04-02X kit out of the TT classifieds for WAAAAAYYYY cheaper (I saw one for $550.00 the other day







) and gotten the same, if not better, performance.
Anyway, 280whp is *beyond* unrealistic for a DD on this turbo. I think that with all the supporting hardware that GIAC lists for their -001/E05 SW, plus a lil WAI, and LOT of tuning, 240-250whp should be achievable, yet not be pushing the turbo or your rods too far beyond a safe level. 
So...as a loyal k04-001 owner, here are your choices:
1) go k04-001/E05b and get your 20 whp and be happy (won't happen)
2) buy the turbo, then spend $1500 in supporting mods and months of tuning to get some decent numbers (probably the route you will end up taking)
3) buy a k04-02X or GT2X or 28RS and be done with it. (The smart way, the "if I only could have..." way)

To be honest, I am having a lot of fun going with option two, and I am learning a ton about my car. But, at this point, I wish I would have just started with the -02X, then used all the money I saved for other cool things...like lap dances or track days or whatever.
Hope this helps http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
Why wouldn't it? Both an engine and a turbo are basically pumps. In order to increase flow capacity (CFM), you need to increase speed of the pump. The turbo follows the same principle, except in order to maintain a specified boost pressure as CFM climbs from the engine pump, it too must increase CFM output.

Wasting your time dude. Just walk away from this thread and in a few weeks start another and just hope that some of these "bigger is _always_ better" guys don't see it.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
Wasting your time dude. Just walk away from this thread and in a few weeks start another and just hope that some of these "bigger is _always_ better" guys don't see it.


not matter how helpful everyone in this thread has been, you *still* act like an ungrateful ass


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
You still have plenty to learn. Your safest bet would be to chip it and add a full exhaust and go from there.

^^^^Best advice yet, right here. Just remember to go with a SW company that also offers a specific k04/E05 file, or a variety of files, that you can grow into.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_You still have plenty to learn. Your safest bet would be to chip it and add a full exhaust and go from there.

But this can be a problem. Seeing as how NOTHING in the popular aftermarket parts bin (DP's, TIP's, etc) doesn't bolt up to a T3 (or equivilent) turbo. So I am sitting here with, "do I upgrade with supporting mods for the KO3's and get baby upgrades (KO4/EO5b), or just wait and get the T3 (or equivilent)?" I _could_ spend the money on all supporting mods for the KO3s, and I _could_ sell them (at a loss) to help fund for a "real" BT project, but thats more money that is going to be spent when it wouldn't have been necessary to begin with. This is one of the other reasons I am even considering (in the future) one of these turbochargers. I can purchase supporting mods now, a little bit at a time, and get the most out of my KO3s knowing that they will work with any future turbo upgrades, or sit with a stock'ish car and wait...


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## middiesman (Jan 3, 2006)

I know when I blew my ko3s (lol) a local shop said they would bore it out and rebuild it for 400$ and that it would flow more when they done.
Is that even possible (increase in flow) without changing the compressor wheel?
Pushing the ko3s is the same as pushing a eo5b, maybe it's even safer to push a ko3 (there are plenty of people who have beat on ko3 turbos, but eo5b's, not so much).
I personally feel like the money argument is irrelevant. If you are going to drop a grand on your car, but you are too tight to save up a little longer to get 2 grand, maybe you should wait on upgrading your car...
If you can't afford to spend more than 1000$, what happens if something goes wrong?
And like everyone else is saying, kkk series turbos are torque machines. So pushing a ko4/eo5b/ko4-2x is risky because of the low end torque spike which has been known to add a little something extra to the PCV system, like a whole in the block.
It's alright for some people, but not for most.




_Modified by middiesman at 10:28 PM 11-19-2007_


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Up yours. You BT guys always hijack KO4 threads with your "go big or go home" horse****. Constantly harping on about how wonderous a BT is, how you just can't go wrong, how you'll _never_ get _anywhere_ with anything smaller than a -023 -- and even then you'll be harping about how ****ty those KKK turbos are and that the "_real_" turbos are the GT blah blah blahs...
You completely ignore the fact that _not everyone wants a BT._ You skip right over that and go for the "bang for the buck" angle, ignoring the fact that some people don't want to screw with boatloads of lag for 8000RPM powa YO, that some people don't want to hack their cars with homebrew downpipes, crack-prone manifolds, suspect oil and coolant lines, poorly fitting intake setups, questional smog-ability ad nauseum.
Coil overs with 3" drops aren't for everyone.
Shaved doors and hatches aren't for everyone.
19" BBSs with 30-series tires and 25mm spacers aren't for everyone.
Plaid interiors and shag-carpet headliners aren't for everyone.
Neon undercar lights and "joey modded" headlights aren't for everyone.
And neither are BTs. Okay? Is that fair? Do you accept that?
If you don't, there's no help for you.
If you do accept that BT aren't necessarily for everyone, why do you _insist_ on pushing this notion, to the point insults start to fly and the thread turns into a pissing contest, that in order to have any fun with the car, a bump in performance that doesn't come with costs in driveability, reliability, passing smog tests and inspections, that doesn't reduce the value of the car because it's been hacked to hell etc _isn't worth it_??
Why harp on and on and on and ON about it? Okay, we got it the first three hundred times. Point taken. Why does every ****ing post about a KO4 have to be qualified with "...but a GT2871 is far better..."??
I appreciate the info you have given regarding the KO4/EO5 stuff, really, I do. But enough with the BTs and talking down to people that have different priorities in modding _their_ cars. If people want to know about BTs, _they'll ask._


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

So it sure would be nice to get somewhere in this thread. 
I would be more than happy to land in that 240-260whp range. And with my supporting mods I really think the e05b is a great option.
Plus all you "OGs" have badmothed the K04-001 so much. A lot of us are not willing to go there. The e05 I think will gicve me that little bit extra that I think will give me that ear to ear grin. Don't you guys want someone to be the guinea pig?


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## middiesman (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*

A t3s60 will add at most 1000 RPM's to the lag and will produce 275whp to redline without much trouble.
Not only that, but it would move the torque spike up some in the RPM band making the turbo safer (although they aren't as torquey as k series turbos).
I don't even have a big turbo, I don't care what you do with your car, and I'm not going to hate on you or talk smack about what you do to your car.
You are upgrading the car because you want more power, so why not hold 270whp to redline rather than have a 3 second spike in the middle of the powerband? I think that's really all he's saying. 
And you don't need power at 2000 rpms, just downshift








Seriously though, until dynos come out and prove the worth of the eo5b, you can't blame people for hating on it because the original has a pretty bad reputation.


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## middiesman (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_ Don't you guys want someone to be the guinea pig?

Are you offering?







If so, I'd say go for it dude!


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (middiesman)*

ATTENTION NOOBS!
This discussion has been going on for 5 years. Let me summarize for you.
The E05X sucks. It is a waste of time. You might gain 10whp. Buy something that will actually make power instead. If you like quick spool get a T3 S60 kit. That can actually make power and spools really fast. I don't really care what you end up doing, but the E05X is a turd. There is a reason that no one on planet Earth actually has one. Think about it.


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

Unfortunately its not going to be soon. But as of right now the plan is still an e05b. I will be running APR software which isn't so aggressive, so I should be able to avoid the big torque spikes and wholes in my block.
If the jerk in the 337 forum would ever post the dyno sheet that he promised, we would really have something to argue about. Up until now this thread has been 6 pages of speculation and opinion about this turbo.


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (mj6234)*

Oops more opinion








And another big turbo rant. Just what we needed.


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

let's stop with the BT stuff. The natives are growing restless.


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (middiesman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *middiesman* »_A t3s60 will add at most 1000 RPM's to the lag and will produce 275whp to redline without much trouble.

A thousand RPM is actually quite a bit. There's a huge difference on a DD between boosting at 3000RPM and boosting at 4000. Considering that many people never take their cars past 5500RPM and usually live down at 2500 when moving, you've basically got a 3000RPM bandwidth for DD use: a thousand RPM is fully 30% of that.

_Quote »_You are upgrading the car because you want more power, so why not hold 270whp to redline rather than have a 3 second spike in the middle of the powerband? I think that's really all he's saying. 

I know what he and the other BT guys are saying. The problem is that they don't _care_ that I have myriad reasons for _not_ going BT. It's not just about holding maximum power at the end of the dial where I spend 1% of the time. I spend 90% of my time below 4000 and don't want to lose 30% of my poweband to a region of the tach I rarely see.
And it's not _just_ about how much I spend on "this" mod when "that" mod will get me mad poWa Yo at redline. As I note above, for me it's about balance. I want some more in the midrange without sacrificing low-RPM driveability. I don't want boatloads more lag to get power in the RPM range I rarely see.
I don't want to alter the car heavily. Bolt on is good for me which is why the KO4-001 and EO5x are attractive. Yeah, I put on a downpipe but I chose a 2.5" instead of the 3" because I didn't want to risk fitment and firewall/floorboard strikes. I'm still on the factory exhaust because I can't stand how most aftermarket exhausts sound.
Simply put, BTs are not for me but a smaller bolt-in setup that's even a bit better than the current one on the car is, _to me_. Maybe not to you, definitely not to cincy and not to a whole host of other BT guys but to me, definitely worth a look.
I looked long and hard at the Eliminators but read enough about them to take a pass. Even simple things like cheesy spacers to move the shift linkage out of the way make me want to gag. The factory turbo and the KO4 have a bolt-hole for a support bracket that takes the weight of the turbo and downpipe off the exhaust manifold. How many kits out there preserve this bracket? How many just hang the weight of the turbo and DP on the manifold and leave it at that?
The KO4 in my basement will not go on until the KO3S on the car now dies. By then it will probably have minor upgrade in the form of a KO3S compressor (or perhaps better) to replace the KO3 one on there now. Even then, I worry about long term reliability...

_Quote »_Seriously though, until dynos come out and prove the worth of the eo5b, you can't blame people for hating on it because the original has a pretty bad reputation.

But people aren't hating it just because it had reliability issues. They're hating on it because it won't carry 270whp to redline. They hate it because it's not a BT and thus, by default, is not worthy.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_Up yours. You BT guys always hijack KO4 threads with your "go big or go home" horse****. Constantly harping on about how wonderous a BT is, how you just can't go wrong, how you'll _never_ get _anywhere_ with anything smaller than a -023 -- and even then you'll be harping about how ****ty those KKK turbos are and that the "_real_" turbos are the GT blah blah blahs...


Not once did i personally say anyone needed a large turbo and make tons of power. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
You completely ignore the fact that _not everyone wants a BT._ You skip right over that and go for the "bang for the buck" angle, ignoring the fact that some people don't want to screw with boatloads of lag for 8000RPM powa YO, that some people don't want to hack their cars with homebrew downpipes, crack-prone manifolds, suspect oil and coolant lines, poorly fitting intake setups, questional smog-ability ad nauseum.


The OP when all said and done a few post back stated he wanted 220whp. Not sure if you saw that or not. I even told him to stick with the STOCK TURBO since it would easily get there with bolt ons and then just above with w/m. The point everyone was making about going with a bigger turbo is when you and others were tossing back and forth about making 250-300whp nonsense. At this point you really should have a *slightly larger *turbo since the cost will be about the same as maxing the ko4/e05, have a longer powerband, and be safer on the rods. We gathered you want to take the least work possible route and thats your choice but dont be mad when peak numbers is all you have due to tq spikes.

_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
Coil overs with 3" drops aren't for everyone.
Shaved doors and hatches aren't for everyone.
19" BBSs with 30-series tires and 25mm spacers aren't for everyone.
Plaid interiors and shag-carpet headliners aren't for everyone.
Neon undercar lights and "joey modded" headlights aren't for everyone.
And neither are BTs. Okay? Is that fair? Do you accept that? 

No one ever said they were. But when people spit out numbers they want to reach, differnt turbos are better for that duty. If you, like the OP wanted your car in the 220-240whp range, then cool, go with a ko4-001 or e05, just dont go thinking your going to make 250-300whp like its nothing or think its all going to be usable power. The best post in here about the people trying to make HUGE numbers on a e05 is from the most knowledgable turbo guy around, Arnold from parparts

_Quote, originally posted by *passatG60* »_these are ill concieved ideas. a good premise, but extremely ill concieved. they throw a bigger comp wheel and a bigger turbine on an already small housing setup that falls on its face at 5.5k. What you're going to end up w/ is an extremely hot environment and surging. engine is choked up at the turbine, intake side will be backed up as the engine up high wont be able to spit out exhaust efficiently enough. this leads to a hotter engine, EGT's will be very high. If you know anything about internal combustion engines, you'll know that heat is basically your #1 enemy and these types of setups build plenty of that. I'm not going to sway anyone into anything, just stating some facts here. This is a total bandaid approach and these types of products are for ppl that think along the lines of ppl in this thread, not for ppl that know what they're looking at.


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
If you do accept that BT aren't necessarily for everyone, why do you _insist_ on pushing this notion, to the point insults start to fly and the thread turns into a pissing contest, that in order to have any fun with the car, a bump in performance that doesn't come with costs in driveability, reliability, passing smog tests and inspections, that doesn't reduce the value of the car because it's been hacked to hell etc _isn't worth it_??


Again, you need to read all the discussion taken place today. If you want reasonable power, a KKK turbo is not for you. Like you said, a bump in performance, then sure go for it. Like i just said, there is a turbo for every goal, e05 for high 200's to 300whp isnt the right choice unless you just want a dyno sheet to show you made it there for all of 200-300prms

_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
Why harp on and on and on and ON about it? Okay, we got it the first three hundred times. Point taken. Why does every ****ing post about a KO4 have to be qualified with "...but a GT2871 is far better..."??

 again, never said that, only help choose the best turbo/setup for the OP goals.

_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
I appreciate the info you have given regarding the KO4/EO5 stuff, really, I do. But enough with the BTs and talking down to people that have different priorities in modding _their_ cars. If people want to know about BTs, _they'll ask._









I have not pushed anyone into something that wasnt right for them. I did however speak with nitro in im's about his goals and direction. Since he found out that he can get a t3s60 setup for about $2k he has changed his plans to a turbo that better suits his goals. Im just hoping that the OP chips his car and feels what a ko3 does with a decent amount of boost before deciding on a set power level and turbo to go with. That was the purpose of this thread when he moved it there


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_Up yours. You BT guys always hijack KO4 threads with your "go big or go home" horse****. Constantly harping on about how wonderous a BT is, how you just can't go wrong, how you'll _never_ get _anywhere_ with anything smaller than a -023 -- and even then you'll be harping about how ****ty those KKK turbos are and that the "_real_" turbos are the GT blah blah blahs...
You completely ignore the fact that _not everyone wants a BT._ You skip right over that and go for the "bang for the buck" angle, ignoring the fact that some people don't want to screw with boatloads of lag for 8000RPM powa YO, that some people don't want to hack their cars with homebrew downpipes, crack-prone manifolds, suspect oil and coolant lines, poorly fitting intake setups, questional smog-ability ad nauseum.
Coil overs with 3" drops aren't for everyone.
Shaved doors and hatches aren't for everyone.
19" BBSs with 30-series tires and 25mm spacers aren't for everyone.
Plaid interiors and shag-carpet headliners aren't for everyone.
Neon undercar lights and "joey modded" headlights aren't for everyone.
And neither are BTs. Okay? Is that fair? Do you accept that?
If you don't, there's no help for you.
If you do accept that BT aren't necessarily for everyone, why do you _insist_ on pushing this notion, to the point insults start to fly and the thread turns into a pissing contest, that in order to have any fun with the car, a bump in performance that doesn't come with costs in driveability, reliability, passing smog tests and inspections, that doesn't reduce the value of the car because it's been hacked to hell etc _isn't worth it_??
Why harp on and on and on and ON about it? Okay, we got it the first three hundred times. Point taken. Why does every ****ing post about a KO4 have to be qualified with "...but a GT2871 is far better..."??
I appreciate the info you have given regarding the KO4/EO5 stuff, really, I do. But enough with the BTs and talking down to people that have different priorities in modding _their_ cars. If people want to know about BTs, _they'll ask._









Sorry, Blackfin, I don't mean to pick; you have some valid points







But....
The problems you listed with BT setups are just that: problems with BT setups. The other options being presented by most of the good-intentioned people in here are MT setups (k04-02X, T3s60, and GT-28R/RS). These kits are more popular (lots of info/help available), make proven power, cause little to no noticble increase in lag, are proven reliable, can be scavanged together quite easily, and can be had for very close to the same price you would spend on an e05b with all the mods needed to make the power that many of the posters in here seem to desire (260~280whp).
If your goal is to bolt on an E05b and be done with it, great! I wish I had that kind of self-control and satiable appetite for HP. The problem is is that these things are like Pandora's box; in that you will quickly find that the "just bolt on and go" theory only holds in the realms of the imagination. 
The BT guys are here to give us all sound advice, not bash our ideas. They have "been there" and "done that" and are only trying to help.


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_Oops more opinion








And another big turbo rant. Just what we needed.

Sorry, I didn't even bother reading the thread, because as soon as I saw the title I knew what it was about. If you guys want to spend $1200 on a turd that WILL break and you will not get it covered under warranty, then be my guest. Even if it doesn't, I guarantee you will not be impressed with the performance. The people that have been around are trying to help you, but all the things that seem appealing about the E05X turbo really aren't once you own one. But feel free to buy one and post up your results! Nothing is better than someone learning on their own that they were wrong and should have listened to people who have been around. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_Plus all you "OGs" have badmothed the K04-001 so much. A lot of us are not willing to go there. The e05 I think will gicve me that little bit extra that I think will give me that ear to ear grin. Don't you guys want someone to be the guinea pig?

The ko4-001 and ko3s are only rated 5hp apart. Thats why people with aww/awp engines should ues it. The e05 if durable should net you a much more noticable gain since the compressor wheel is actually larger


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
The ko4-001 and ko3s are only rated 5hp apart. Thats why people with aww/awp engines should ues it. The e05 if durable should net you a much more noticable gain since the compressor wheel is actually larger

I really doubt it. No one has made any power on a K04-2X turbo. Most I see are around 230whp (but I admit it does go further into the powerband). I doubt the E05 is any bigger. Which makes me think they might get 10whp for $1200.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_
A thousand RPM is actually quite a bit. There's a huge difference on a DD between boosting at 3000RPM and boosting at 4000. Considering that many people never take their cars past 5500RPM and usually live down at 2500 when moving, you've basically got a 3000RPM bandwidth for DD use: a thousand RPM is fully 30% of that.
I know what he and the other BT guys are saying. The problem is that they don't _care_ that I have myriad reasons for _not_ going BT. It's not just about holding maximum power at the end of the dial where I spend 1% of the time. I spend 90% of my time below 4000 and don't want to lose 30% of my poweband to a region of the tach I rarely see.
And it's not _just_ about how much I spend on "this" mod when "that" mod will get me mad poWa Yo at redline. As I note above, for me it's about balance. I want some more in the midrange without sacrificing low-RPM driveability. I don't want boatloads more lag to get power in the RPM range I rarely see.
I don't want to alter the car heavily. Bolt on is good for me which is why the KO4-001 and EO5x are attractive. Yeah, I put on a downpipe but I chose a 2.5" instead of the 3" because I didn't want to risk fitment and firewall/floorboard strikes. I'm still on the factory exhaust because I can't stand how most aftermarket exhausts sound.
Simply put, BTs are not for me but a smaller bolt-in setup that's even a bit better than the current one on the car is, _to me_. Maybe not to you, definitely not to cincy and not to a whole host of other BT guys but to me, definitely worth a look.
I looked long and hard at the Eliminators but read enough about them to take a pass. Even simple things like cheesy spacers to move the shift linkage out of the way make me want to gag. The factory turbo and the KO4 have a bolt-hole for a support bracket that takes the weight of the turbo and downpipe off the exhaust manifold. How many kits out there preserve this bracket? How many just hang the weight of the turbo and DP on the manifold and leave it at that?
The KO4 in my basement will not go on until the KO3S on the car now dies. By then it will probably have minor upgrade in the form of a KO3S compressor (or perhaps better) to replace the KO3 one on there now. Even then, I worry about long term reliability...
But people aren't hating it just because it had reliability issues. They're hating on it because it won't carry 270whp to redline. They hate it because it's not a BT and thus, by default, is not worthy.


Its stuff like in this post that makes you look like a fool. You spend your time below 5500rpms because thats where the powers at. If you have power from 2.5k to 6.5k, you would spend more time there. Its not like your driving style wouldnt change. 
Plus you still dont get the point that everyone keeps making about making 270-300whp. With a ko3/4/eo5 it will be only for 500rpms or so where a t3s60 making the same peak will be there for 3000rpms. Also 1000rpms isnt much since you will still have boost below 2500rpms.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
I really doubt it. No one has made any power on a K04-2X turbo. Most I see are around 230whp (but I admit it does go further into the powerband). I doubt the E05 is any bigger. Which makes me think they might get 10whp for $1200. 

what??? You didnt even read my post. I said the ko4-001, not the ko4-2x. Plus look back to page 4 or 5 where i post the compressor wheels, there is a significant size differnce between the ko4-001 wheel and the e05 wheel. you will make more power, just not as much as some of these people think. It was made to rival the ko4-2x lineup and it should. So people should expect 230-240whp and 250-270wtq with the eo5


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Now someone just buy the damn thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!ARGGGGGG!!!!!!!!I want to see data!!!!!!!!!


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
what??? You didnt even read my post. I said the ko4-001, not the ko4-2x. Plus look back to page 4 or 5 where i post the compressor wheels, there is a significant size differnce between the ko4-001 wheel and the e05 wheel. you will make more power, just not as much as some of these people think. It was made to rival the ko4-2x lineup and it should. So people should expect 230-240whp and 250-270wtq with the eo5

I understood you. I am saying if people don't do well with the K04-02X series, why would the E05 be any better? So like I said, you are getting 10whp for $1200. How is that good? Especially for a turbo that has been shown to be very unreliable in the past? Honestly, I don't care what people do, but you are putting all your eggs in one basket with the E05. Get something with a regular flange that can be upgraded later when you want it. 
Are people even sure the housing these new wheels are in will support the extra flow? You know a while ago, someone made a K03/K16 hybrid. That didn't do well either.


_Modified by mj6234 at 10:28 PM 11-19-2007_


----------



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_U
If the jerk in the 337 forum would ever post the dyno sheet that he promised, we would really have something to argue about. 

this says it all, i bet i can guess why he hasn't posted it...hmmm


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## Midnight_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

alright, i was going to remain silent about this until reading all of these morons posts.
E05whatever with a full exhaust, limited slip, axles, and drag radials on pump gas with GIAC managment for that turbo and mods running high boost....
vs
APR chip K03s and K&N filter on stock tires in 100oct mode.

Guess who was the winner.....ON THE RACE TRACK?

what for it
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Thats right...the KO3s. and to boot it trapped higher.
times were 14.3 at 99.7mph vs 14.4 at 97mph.

Next pass we swapped cars and tried to rule out driver error and lets just say, his car did even worse with me behind the wheel.

The owner of the other car IMMEDIATLY went to Tyrolsport and upgraded to a T3 set up and came back to the track and trapped 113 and ran low 13's on pump and street legal tires. 

So please don't waste your time and money on something that is such a waste. Take the working knowledge of all the people in this forum and go with what works.
The key is to doing mods on a budget is to pick up the majority of your parts used in good working condition and save a bundle on them. i put a gt30r on my car for a total of 2g's by buying stuff used. the only thing i paid full price for was the software and the injectors. I made 400whp on it a long ways back....god almost three years now. that means i over doubled my horsepower for 2g's. and now it can still be done for the same amount of money if you know where to look and how to get your parts. 
THE CLASSIFIEDS ARE YOUR BEST F"ING FRIEND.

THE END


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
I understood you. I am saying if people don't do well with the K04-02X series, why would the E05 be any better? So like I said, you are getting 10whp for $1200. How is that good? Especially for a turbo that has been shown to be very unreliable in the past? Honestly, I don't care what people do, but you are putting all your eggs in one basket with the E05. Get something with a regular flange that can be upgraded later when you want it. 

The ko4-2x has potential, someone stated earlier that people are limited in how far they can push it since it makes a good amount of tq rather fast. Its fine on a 225 with 20mm wrist pin rods and lower c/r, not so much for people with aww/awp engines that would snap a little easier. With some rods and ~25psi, they should be rather potent.


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_Sorry, Blackfin, I don't mean to pick; you have some valid points







But....
The problems you listed with BT setups are just that: problems with BT setups. The other options being presented by most of the good-intentioned people in here are MT setups (k04-02X, T3s60, and GT-28R/RS). These kits are more popular (lots of info/help available), make proven power, cause little to no noticble increase in lag, are proven reliable, can be scavanged together quite easily, and can be had for very close to the same price you would spend on an e05b with all the mods needed to make the power that many of the posters in here seem to desire (260~280whp).









I hear you. But I personally tend to lump what you term "MT" into the mod class of BTs. A KO4-02x isn't really a bolt in deal. Neither is a T3Super60 nor a GT28RS. The closest I've seen is ATPs Eliminator and I read enough fitment issue threads here to make me nauseated. I've read enough "why isn't my <insert BT here> making boost until 4000RPM" threads to know that these things aren't plug and play.
I will agree with you and cincy in that people looking to get 260-280HP out of a KO4-001 or an EO5x are asking for trouble and a let down. I personally am not shooting for such lofty goals. I don't actually care how much power the car makes as long as it feels right to me after the mod. I don't street or drag race, I don't spend my weekends at the dyno Lemmiwinking and VAG-COM logging, I don't crawl under the car every third or fourth day to twiddle ****...I just drive it day in and day out. Indeed, the car isn't that far from being what I want now...a "turbo upgrade lite" is just what the doctor ordered. Like I said, I looked at the Eliminators -- the closest I would consider coming to a "BT" -- and seeing their advertised HP numbers _higher_ than I want, their fitment issues, the problems people have afterwards, I simply decided that even that "small" BT is too much to deal with and that a KO4-001 or even a "SuperKO4" with a lightly and properly modded compressor housing and wheel would be far more suitable.

_Quote »_If your goal is to bolt on an E05b and be done with it, great! I wish I had that kind of self-control and satiable appetite for HP.

Heh. All I'm saying is that people that completely dismiss the "lite" upgrades like the KO4-001 have BT tunnel vision. They can't envision why someone wouldn't want 300HP at redline. There's more to it for guys like me than simple bang/buck ratios and how much power I have as the needle touches 6500RPM...much more.

_Quote »_The problem is is that these things are like Pandora's box; in that you will quickly find that the "just bolt on and go" theory only holds in the realms of the imagination.

Any mod has risks. But replacing a KO3S with a turbo built on the same basic cartridge, that bolts to _all_ factory mounting points, that uses pretty much all factory lines and piping, that uses factory gaskets and even the factory DP location is a far less risky mod than even the Eliminator stuff. To some, that's a worthwhile tradeoff, even if it returns modest gains. Just sayin' that this is exactly what some people are looking for.

_Quote »_The BT guys are here to give us all sound advice, not bash our ideas. They have "been there" and "done that" and are only trying to help.


Well, I get the distinct impression that some are here to simply bash and push the BT thing on everyone.


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
The ko4-2x has potential, someone stated earlier that people are limited in how far they can push it since it makes a good amount of tq rather fast. Its fine on a 225 with 20mm wrist pin rods and lower c/r, not so much for people with aww/awp engines that would snap a little easier. With some rods and ~25psi, they should be rather potent.

So you want people to build their motor to run a K04-02x? I don't get it. I see very little upside to staying with the K03/K04 family of turbos.


----------



## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
So you want people to build their motor to run a K04-02x? I don't get it. I see very little upside to staying with the K03/K04 family of turbos.

Is the option out there... yes, should they do it..... HELL NO.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (Blackfin)*

Trust me, since you have to take the DP, TIP, mani, turbo, oil/coolant lines, and everything else off your car to put the k04/E05 on, there is no difference in the time it takes to replace these components with ones that will accomoate a different turbo. The k04-001 turbo swap is a very involved process, and after doing it twice, I cannot honestly see how a k04 could be any easier to install than a T3s60 or 28RS. 
IMHO, I think the term "bolt-on" is a gross simplification to whats involved with putting on the k04-001. For all the talk about how easy it is, it is no more bolt on in nature than a MT "kit" purchased from pagparts.


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_Its stuff like in this post *that makes you look like a fool.*










_Quote »_You spend your time below 5500rpms because thats where the powers at. If you have power from 2.5k to 6.5k, you would spend more time there. Its not like your driving style wouldnt change. 

Wrong. What an idiotic assumption. Why would I suddenly be content to want to spend my time racing around town between 4000 and 6500RPM because that's where "the powers at"? More likely I'd be disappointed that I'd turned a perfectly tractable, torquey little car into a POS that's laggy and annoying to drive at sane, legal speeds around town unless I have the tach a thousand or two RPM higher than I normally would.
But whatever...I'll just sit back and watch a couple of BT guys butt heads over KO4-02x turbos now.









_Quote »_Plus you still dont get the point that everyone keeps making about making 270-300whp. With a ko3/4/eo5 it will be only for 500rpms or so where a t3s60 making the same peak will be there for 3000rpms. Also 1000rpms isnt much since you will still have boost below 2500rpms. 

I don't believe I said I want 270-300whp from a KO4/EO5 turbo. The whole point cincy is that there's a happy middle ground for some people between the 190 or so I'm making now (estimating from how I walk slowly on a stock MkV now) and the 270-300 you BT guys are on about. It might be 210 for some, it might be 230 for others. For some, it's not even about numbers but how the car feels and how it performs in general. 
Simply put, I'm satisfied that I can attain my goals without going BT and indeed, a smaller turbo would _better_ meet my goals than a BT. The KO4-001 and EO5 (if not in practice, in principle) are the easiest, bolt-in turbos to meet those goals.


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_Trust me, since you have to take the DP, TIP, mani, turbo, oil/coolant lines, and everything else off your car to put the k04/E05 on, there is no difference in the time it takes to replace these components with ones that will accomoate a different turbo. The k04-001 turbo swap is a very involved process, and after doing it twice, I cannot honestly see how a k04 could be any easier to install than a T3s60 or 28RS. 
IMHO, I think the term "bolt-on" is a gross simplification to whats involved with putting on the k04-001. For all the talk about how easy it is, it is no more bolt on in nature than a MT "kit" purchased from pagparts.

This is true, but the reason why people flock to these turbos is the fact that you can retain the downpipe, tip, and basically everything else. I personally think its a waste of money. If you blow a t3 super 60, it'll cost you 600 bucks to replace. If you blow a e05(chances are you will), then its 1300 down the toilet.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Blackfin)*

Seriously dood, this thread wasnt for you or about you in any way. People have explained the pros and cons to dealth and the differnce between making power with differnt turbos. Take it for what its worth and stop your bit ching already. Your to stuburn to listen to what anyone says and the advise given here. If you want to act like an ass, thats your beef, not everyone elses. If people think the e05 is the biggest waste of money in the world and you love it, your the one that plans on using it. You have people with personal, turbo, and ration knowledge give advise here and all you did was complain about people stating alternatives that might be a better option. 
And for the last f'ing time, if you want something in the low 200whp range, the stock turbo is fine, no reason pissing money on a upgrade thats not going to get you much more than a lighter wallet.


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## passatG60 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: (Blackfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blackfin* »_








I hear you. But I personally tend to lump what you term "MT" into the mod class of BTs. A KO4-02x isn't really a bolt in deal. Neither is a T3Super60 nor a GT28RS. The closest I've seen is ATPs Eliminator and I read enough fitment issue threads here to make me nauseated. I've read enough "why isn't my <insert BT here> making boost until 4000RPM" threads to know that these things aren't plug and play.
I will agree with you and cincy in that people looking to get 260-280HP out of a KO4-001 or an EO5x are asking for trouble and a let down. I personally am not shooting for such lofty goals. I don't actually care how much power the car makes as long as it feels right to me after the mod. I don't street or drag race, I don't spend my weekends at the dyno Lemmiwinking and VAG-COM logging, I don't crawl under the car every third or fourth day to twiddle ****...I just drive it day in and day out. Indeed, the car isn't that far from being what I want now...a "turbo upgrade lite" is just what the doctor ordered. Like I said, I looked at the Eliminators -- the closest I would consider coming to a "BT" -- and seeing their advertised HP numbers _higher_ than I want, their fitment issues, the problems people have afterwards, I simply decided that even that "small" BT is too much to deal with and that a KO4-001 or even a "SuperKO4" with a lightly and properly modded compressor housing and wheel would be far more suitable.
Heh. All I'm saying is that people that completely dismiss the "lite" upgrades like the KO4-001 have BT tunnel vision. They can't envision why someone wouldn't want 300HP at redline. There's more to it for guys like me than simple bang/buck ratios and how much power I have as the needle touches 6500RPM...much more.
Any mod has risks. But replacing a KO3S with a turbo built on the same basic cartridge, that bolts to _all_ factory mounting points, that uses pretty much all factory lines and piping, that uses factory gaskets and even the factory DP location is a far less risky mod than even the Eliminator stuff. To some, that's a worthwhile tradeoff, even if it returns modest gains. Just sayin' that this is exactly what some people are looking for.
Well, I get the distinct impression that some are here to simply bash and push the BT thing on everyone.









You remind me of a guy w/ a passat I set up here. He went through progressive states of upgrades. The chip route, the upgraded bolt on turbo route. It was established that he would never ever go beyond a K04 upgrade. He bought a K04, chip/fuel upgrades. It took him a total of half a day to realize that he had wasted his money. I kept my mouth shut. He pondered the idea of going a little larger... say a T3s60... after a couple of months of rolling that idea in his mind, he decided to go for it.
Now this is a guy, probably very much like you. Not surrounded by other cars that egg him on. It was a very personal thing and the car gets driven mostly to/from work and cruising around during the week/weekends. A regular daily driver.
Well, when the setup was finished, he started realizing, it wasnt the sacrifice that he thought it was going to be. Yeah, it costs a bit of money.. hell, what doesnt these days? But the car drives just as it did before. Same gas mileage, same sound, but just a hell of alot more powerful when he wants to have a little fun. His only regret was buying the k04 in the first place where he ended up losing a few hundred bux after he sold it...


_Modified by passatG60 at 9:02 PM 11-19-2007_


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (passatG60)*

^^^^Pearls before swine


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
So you want people to build their motor to run a K04-02x? I don't get it. I see very little upside to staying with the K03/K04 family of turbos.


The point is that some of us do not want BT setups as daily drivers. My k04-20 is my daily driver. I drive 500 miles a week. My k04-20 gives me nice torque and power while not hurting my fuel economy. k04-20 makes 220-245whp and 260-280wtrq on 18lbs of boost and 93 octane. You install it and you don't have to do anything else to it. If someone wanted more power out the k04-20 then you spend 350 bucks on some IE rods, crank the boost up, timing, water/meth, some race gas and you will be close to 300whp and over 300wtrq. That is enough for some people. K04-20 is a very torquey turbo and produces lots of torque at low RPM, and that is why the k04-20 SW were designed conservitively so that no one blows holes in their blocks. If you want to stay in the K series turbos for whatever reason, the k04-20 is the best option out there for consistent power, reliabilty, oem parts, nice power, torque, and fuel economy. For people like me who drive alot a BT is just not an option. Especially with these gas prices soaring up the way they are. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif If I wanted a really fast car i would buy a SUPRA, EVO or twin turbo rx7. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif not A VW










_Modified by 01gtiaww at 8:45 AM 11-20-2007_


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*

I just want to point out that with my GT28R I was getting 28 mpg city and 34 mpg highway.
I expect similar results with my GT28RS.
Going larger than the K series doesn't really do much for fuel consumption unless you are really flogging the crap out if it every single time you hit the gas.
Not trying to knock you in any way, just supplying some information for people to think about.


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (IzVW)*

I understand, but for me, When i started investing money in my car, I wanted to stay everything OEM, including the turbo.. SO I wanted to get the biggest oem series turbo available for the 1.8t and the k04-20 series turbo, to me, is the best OEM upgrade. DOn't get me wrong, if it was not my daily driver, I would get a t3super60 but till I buy another car the k04-20 series is staying on there. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (01gtiaww)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01gtiaww* »_

The point is that some of us do not want BT setups as daily drivers. My k04-20 is my daily driver. I drive 500 miles a week. My k04-20 gives me nice torque and power while not hurting my fuel economy. k04-20 makes 220-245whp and 260-280wtrq on 18lbs of boost and 93 octane. You install it and you don't have to do anything else to it. If someone wanted more power out the k04-20 then you spend 350 bucks on some IE rods, crank the boost up, timing, water/meth, some race gas and you will be close to 300whp and over 300wtrq. That is enough for some people. K04-20 is a very torquey turbo and produces lots of torque at low RPM, and that is why the k04-20 SW were designed conservitively so that no one blows holes in their blocks. If you want to stay in the K series turbos for whatever reason, the k04-20 is the best option out there for consistent power, reliabilty, oem parts, nice power, torque, and fuel economy. For people like me who drive alot a BT is just not an option. Especially with these gas prices soaring up the way they are. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif If I wanted a really fast car i would buy a SUPRA, EVO or twin turbo rx7. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif not A VW









_Modified by 01gtiaww at 8:45 AM 11-20-2007_

Is there 1 K04-02x turbo that has made 245whp on 18psi? I doubt it. Like I said, in the 77 page thread not one person has actually made anything good out of a K04-02x turbo. And like you said, if you have to detune it not to put a hole in your block, why not get something slightly larger? Believe me my .64 GT28RS is a torque monster. Almost to the point it is annoying to drive because there is too much torque. It makes boost plently fast. And fuel mileage is NO WORSE on 630cc injectors if you don't beat it. I care about fuel mileage a lot and average somewhere around 29.5 including all types of driving. This tank I will get > 30mpg easy. 
And to say that an OEM turbo is going to be more reliable because it happened to come on a VW as OE equipment is a pretty big assumption. A Garrett turbo is every bit as reliable as a KKK one. You do know that turbos in the same family as mine come as OE equipment on other cars, right? And if you do want more power, getting it through race gas, W/M, etc is basically just a huge bandaid to get all you can out of your car when all you should have had to do was turn up the boost 5psi, or at worst get a larger drop in turbo, which you can't do with the K0X series of turbos. Why is driving a "BT" not OK for a car that gets around a lot? I don't get this at all.
I get exactly what you want. You want "slightly" (which as most of us have found turns into "a lot") more power than a K03 setup offers, with the perceived reliability that using OEM parts gives, at a low cost and low inconvenience. 
What you end up with is something that makes very little more power, with no more reliabiilty at a far overblown cost for what you get and a huge inconvenience when you decide that you want to change down the road and have to sell your parts to some other person who thinks the E05x and K04-02x turbos are the answer to their wants. How do you know you wouldn't like a BT? Do you know anyone that has one?


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_How do you know you wouldn't like a BT?

Thinking "inside the box" here, its a FWD VW, I see no reason to exceed 220-240whp. I don't drag race, I might or might not even take the car to a road course (only time will tell here). I can't do anything now to my KO3s if I decide to go with a bigger turbo (K04-020 or bigger) outside of a chip/diode+mbc.
I am suppose to be happy with just a chip/diode+mbc? Yeah, I am sure I can upgrade my exhaust to 3 inches, and I can upgrade the DP and TIP (and perhaps manifold), but thats easily $450 down the toilet (unless I sell the spare parts, in which case, it would probably be more like $300 +/-). Throwing away $300+ is unacceptable. So what is someone to do then?


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (mj6234)*

If you look at my sig you can see I own a 1987 BT rx7 turbo II. I bought a VW for the sole purpose of a Daily Driver. I wanted a lil more punch and torque than what it came with and the k04-20 suites my needs for what I wanted from my GTI. I wanted to stay with the biggest VW OEM turbo for the 1.8t. That is all. I dont want a real BT turbo on a FWD cause to me it is just not worth it on a FWD car. IF i was to get something a little bigger I would get a t3super60 but nothing bigger on the GTI. To me GT 28, 28rs are still medium sized turbos. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
Thinking "inside the box" here, its a FWD VW, I see no reason to exceed 220-240whp. I don't drag race, I might or might not even take the car to a road course (only time will tell here). I can't do anything now to my KO3s if I decide to go with a bigger turbo (K04-020 or bigger) outside of a chip/diode+mbc.


Horsepower is NOT THE PROBLEM ON A FWD CAR. It is torque. Period. The end.


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
I am suppose to be happy with just a chip/diode+mbc? Yeah, I am sure I can upgrade my exhaust to 3 inches, and I can upgrade the DP and TIP (and perhaps manifold), but thats easily $450 down the toilet (unless I sell the spare parts, in which case, it would probably be more like $300 +/-). Throwing away $300+ is unacceptable. So what is someone to do then?

But throwing away $1200 to accomplish ~ the same as spending $300 IS acceptable?
You mad dumb, son.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_
But throwing away $1200 to accomplish ~ the same as spending $300 IS acceptable?
You mad dumb, son.

Explain to me why I need to spend an additional $300 on proprietary hardware to get me within ballpark of my power goals? You can argue that I will spend that money and then some anyway on bolt on parts (TIP and DP for example), but I can find the same quality parts for cheaper used or on ebay (bought new). Same goes if I ever decide to upgrade the manifold (specifically a used manifold).
Outside of custom fabbing parts (which I have no experience or ability to do so), there isn't much available for finding cheap, quality parts that go with a T3 that I have found. Plus the amount of spare parts I know I will have if I upgrade to a T3 where I _might_ have spare parts if I upgrade to an EO5b (I am not made of space here). And never mind that I can resell the majority of my "upgrades" to a broader audience and retain the majority of my resale value where as a T3 setup, I am stuck having to sell to a smaller audience and having to take whatever offer comes to the table.
Edit:
BTW, I am not shutting down the idea of buying used here. The budget is $1300, no more, so I am sure I could probably find a decent T3 setup or KO4-020 setup in this price range used. The only problem is price and availability on used parts is limited, so I can only go price by what is available new.


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

GT2x. Believe me. MUCH better option. It can be had for ~ $1100 if you look around with forum sponsors etc. This turbo is a MUCH MUCH more reliable CHRA, as its an OEM garret with a custom exhaust housing. The e05 is a K04 -001 shaft, which is already known to be less than reliable at higher boost levels, which has larger wheels put onto it. Not exactly the best scenario. I'm not trying to be a dick, but this is coming from someone with experience with a K04-001 and experience with a GT2x, and a T3 super 60, a GT28RS, a GT3251, a GT3255, T3/4 50 trim,T3/4 60 trim and a T4 60-1. The GT2x spools indistinguishable from stock, and will support up to 260whp. Its a VERY VERY good deal.


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## NOLA_VDubber (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*

^^^This will probably be what I upgrade to in the future. Should have gone with it to begin with, honestly. I think those threads in response to the fitment issues with the 6speed and GT28rs eliminator scared me away. 


_Modified by NOLA_VDubber at 8:24 AM 11-20-2007_


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (NOLA_VDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOLA_VDubber* »_^^^This will probably be what I upgrade to in the future. Should have gone with it to begin with, honestly. I think those threads in response to the fitment issues with the 6speed and GT28rs eliminator scared me away. 

Fitment issues, even with the 5-speed, steers me away from the GT2x, so I am back to square one








Edit: Here is a quick IM chat with a previous owner of a GT2x turbo:
(11:51 AM 11-19-2007) abawp: After some searching, you mentioned that you had a GT2x turbo from ATP. I was wondering if you could give some insight onto this turbo. What was your setup? Did you ever get dyno'ed? How reliable was it? How was it driven (drag, road race, strictly street, auto-x, mix)?
(4:23 PM 11-19-2007) 20vTurboGLI: The GT2X eliminator kit is a piece of crap. I wouldn't recommend one to anybody... I had nothing but trouble with the turbo and it wasn't anywhere near as powerful as atp claims... I would recommend a K04-001 or a K04-023 over the GT2X, seriously.


_Modified by abawp at 8:31 AM 11-20-2007_


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

Talk about your band aid set ups. Eliminator kits have gotten a lot of grief on these forums. If anybody was listening they would know that they are not an option for abawp. I'm right there with him.


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_Talk about your band aid set ups. Eliminator kits have gotten a lot of grief on these forums. If anybody was listening they would know that they are not an option for abawp. I'm right there with him.

The 2x is a completely differnt animal than the other eliminators. I've driven a quattro A4 with one, and albeit the housing is different, the turbo was fantastic. It died 6 weeks later due to ATP telling us it didn't need an oil restrictor, and against my better judgment i listened to them. Then when it died they went 'WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU RUN A RESTRICTOR!?!' They warrantied it though, but by that time the owner moved to a T3 super60 due to me having the manifold and turbo laying around and him wanting the car back together asap.
Got the turbo/kit for $1100. It was never dynoed, but the car ran [email protected] which is pretty movin for an AWD heavy A4. That was on the worst tires in human history too. Like a 500 treadwear $50 General tire. Surfo on here loved his, before something got into the inlet and ate the comp wheel. Based on weight and MPH on the A4 it was making around 215-220whp, and that was at 1bar using the n75 and a GIAC Hammer PC16 file.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_Got the turbo/kit for $1100. 

Where?


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

Dont goto atp directly. Look to atp distributers. 20quared tuning comes to mind.

Just on ebay quick i found this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWD1V

Which is below what ATP charges. 


_Modified by WhiteG60 at 12:11 PM 11-20-2007_


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*

And then there are threads like this.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3518476


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_And then there are threads like this.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3518476

^^Fitment issues, and then that^^








GT2x looks like a http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif more and more


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*










Thats not something that just happens. Something (a rock, a piece of a stick, something) got into the inlet and did that. That can happen on any turbo.


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Surfo* »_I really like how this turbo behaves, but the original kit has very bad issues with the intake and sometimes with the Actuator, so, using a tt225 samco hose, or doing a big intake like I did, or using the ATP 3" intake kit, you`ll love it. just find a k04-023 sw, 380cc`s 4bar, and 20psi hold.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_Thats not something that just happens. Something (a rock, a piece of a stick, something) got into the inlet and did that. That can happen on any turbo.

Perhaps, but I was more concerned with this:








Thats a *lot* of oil in the exhaust stream, too much for my comfort. Considering Surfo takes his car out to a road course and the turbo held up like it did, its a turn-off in my eyes.


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
Perhaps, but I was more concerned with this:








Thats a *lot* of oil in the exhaust stream, too much for my comfort. Considering Surfo takes his car out to a road course and the turbo held up like it did, its a turn-off in my eyes.

If something hit the compressor, and chewed it up, it was no longer in balance, causing it to trash the bearings and seals leading to the oil in the exhaust. 
I'm not trying to argue with you, really. We're trying to help you out.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

I hear you loud and clear. The circumstances for the failure of Surfo's turbo was never confirmed, so its hard to tell exactly what caused his problem. However, I don't think I would be willing to spend the money to find out if the cause was actual turbo failure and not an impact failure (as you described).
I might just stick with a K04-001 and see what it would take to swap compressor housings with a K03s. Even the EO5b is starting to look too costly in case of an actual turbo failure. Of course, there are still a lot of unknowns with the EO5b, so we will have to wait and see I guess...


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_I hear you loud and clear. The circumstances for the failure of Surfo's turbo was never confirmed, so its hard to tell exactly what caused his problem. However, I don't think I would be willing to spend the money to find out if the cause was actual turbo failure and not an impact failure (as you described).
I might just stick with a K04-001 and see what it would take to swap compressor housings with a K03s. Even the EO5b is starting to look too costly in case of an actual turbo failure. Of course, there are still a lot of unknowns with the EO5b, so we will have to wait and see I guess...


The reliability of the regular E05 and even high boosted K04's is severely lacking. look into a GT28R or a T3/4 45trim with a .48. You can make ~ 250-275whp on a stock block just fine with those.


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*

GT28R is quick spooling, not too expensive, and would be a good choice. I agree. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_

The reliability of the regular E05 and even high boosted K04's is severely lacking. look into a GT28R or a T3/4 45trim with a .48. You can make ~ 250-275whp on a stock block just fine with those.

Perhaps, but I still think that is A) too much head room and B) too costly. If/when I get to where I need 250-275whp, I am pretty sure I would have exceeded the capabilities of a FWD chassis on a road course and would be looking for something more capable (i.e. something RWD). Ideally, I don't want to spend $2,000+ on a turbo kit and not utilize its full potential. Seems to me that spending half to a third of that would be a more efficient way if it achieves the same results.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
Perhaps, but I still think that is A) too much head room and B) too costly. If/when I get to where I need 250-275whp, I am pretty sure I would have exceeded the capabilities of a FWD chassis on a road course and would be looking for something more capable (i.e. something RWD). Ideally, I don't want to spend $2,000+ on a turbo kit and not utilize its full potential. Seems to me that spending half to a third of that would be a more efficient way if it achieves the same results.

250-275 whp sure, spin it up and watch the torque come on with it. A 28rs ran at healthy potential is more safe then you spinning that torque monster up daily.
I put down 246 hp and 311 ft-lbs of torque on a ko3s i can only imagine the torque you can put down with an e05 or k04-2x series... It might be out of your budget but i see a 28r or 28rs being a better choice for a road course/daily driver. The spool characteristics are not that drastically difference that you would notice on a road course. Go ride or find a friend that will let you drive there 28r or 28rs setup. i think you will be happy. 
I think you are just unhappy with the price and trying to find any way to back up the e05 you can. You learn to compensate for the slightly later spool, down shift an extra gear if you need too, dont tell me you need it for first bc at 300ft-lbs of torque you will blow the tires off regardless. Without an LSD and a slight curve you can slip part of second gear too if the torque comes on too fast. I know bc this is what I encounter on my baby turbo. 
Also a t3/t4 or 28r like whiteg60 said, can make reliable power all day everyday on 93 pump. When i say reliable i mean: engine wise and TURBO wise.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

Even though it may sound like it, I am honostly not trying to justify the price of an EO5b or KO4 over a T3 etc. I just can't justify spending that amount of coin for 220whp.
For the GT28RS H/W kit, that alone is $2400. The DP looks different (flange), so what am I to do with the exhaust side of things? What garantees are there that this will bolt up to the factory system, or do I have to spend more money on either a new exhaust system that fits ATP's stuff or spend on fab work?
I just don't want to spend money on little things now only to have to undo everything later (think I have said this before).


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

if you want 220whp just stay on the stock turbo and run race gas at the track


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

The ATP downpipe comes with the kit, and will bolt to the stock exhast, a 2.5" exhaust or a 3.0" exhast. The test pipe it comes with has step downs to each size.
Its too bad you can't get the ATP Stage2 Gen2 anymore. That seems like exactly what you'd look for.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...VVWTK
Its still there but it says 'obsoleted' so I'm not sure you can still get it.


_Modified by WhiteG60 at 3:35 PM 11-20-2007_


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theswoleguy* »_if you want 220whp just stay on the stock turbo and run race gas at the track

In order to hit those numbers, you have to push 19+ psi don't you? IIRC, thats well outside the efficiency range of the stock turbo...

_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_The ATP downpipe comes with the kit, and will bolt to the stock exhast, a 2.5" exhaust or a 3.0" exhast. The test pipe it comes with has step downs to each size.

What about the cat? Most DP's I have seen (even stock) have the cat integrated.


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

I'd pay an exhaust shop $50 to cut your stock cat to the proper 3" size on one end and weld it to the downpipe and keep the back stock. The stock cat has a substrate size of 5" and it cones up from 2.25" -> 5" -> 2.25". The stock cat is also shown to lose < 10hp @ redline on a 700+bhp engine, so theres no restriction there.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*

My chip stock pushed 19lbs, if you have all the boltons and everything you should be pretty close. if anything spend the money on water meth and be RIGHT there.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

Still don't know about the stock turbo. Doesn't seem to want to leave much/any room for any more power without *really* pushing the turbo. All that high RPM spinning can't be too good on bearing longevity, especially if the turbo is overspinning.


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

Yeah if you want 220whp, and want to run it on a road course, I don't think the stock turbo or a K04 short of the 020 is the way to go. You want 220whp @ redline, and torque through the revs and no K series, even the E05, is going to give you that. Mike @ Tyrolsport did a bunch of different tests on different smaller turbos on the road courses and came to the conclusion that the GT28R and GT28RS are the ways to go for that.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

so you want head room for more power but in the with no issues. I have been running mine chipped since 38k dioded at 42-45ish. I am at 75K now. The price of 5-6 used low mileage ko3s can be had still prior to you e05b. Change them once a year if ya want.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WhiteG60* »_Mike @ Tyrolsport did a bunch of different tests on different smaller turbos on the road courses and came to the conclusion that the GT28R and GT28RS are the ways to go for that.

This was one of the main reasons I have considered the 28RS before and continue to toss around that idea. Which makes me wonder, is this:

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









the same as this?:








(maybe just missing a few parts?)


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*

those two are completely different bro. One is a kit that is no different then going T3/t4 and so forth as it comes with or needs turbo manifold and so forth. 
The top one is an eliminator series, which is "suppose" to be a direct replacement, bolt and go.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (theswoleguy)*

From ATP's sight (on the second item):

_Quote, originally posted by *ATP* »_The Hardware Kit features the following componentry:
-Precision Cast High Flow Turbo Manifold with GT28RS flange pattern.
-Garrett Dual Ball Bearing GT28RS Turbocharger assembly.
-Internal wastegate assembly with high psi base spring actuator.
-3.00” V-band Discharge Module.
-3.00” Stainless V-band downpipe assembly.
-Inlet Pipe with T-bolt Clamps and silicone connectors.
-Custom CNC machined oil inlet/outlet fittings with oil control.
-Steel braided oil feed and return line assemblies.
-Custom CNC machined coolant fittings with AN style discharge/return.
-Steel braided, pre-assembled coolant line assemblies with 
-All hardware and comprehensive installation diagram.
This kit does not include Software/ECU Modification or any fueling methods.

So it sounds like it comes with everything to bolt it in. Might have to start picking Tyrolkid's brain on this...


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_From ATP's sight (on the second item):
So it sounds like it comes with everything to bolt it in. Might have to start picking Tyrolkid's brain on this...

Yeah that is everything you need short of fueling, software and a fuel pump (and an IC but thats not NEEDED).


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*

Even looking at one of tyrolkid's build threads, it looks like the first option (in my prior post). According to the post, he is using a "stock" DP (ok, its a GHL, but its a stock design







). The manifold even looks like the stock flange. So;
Stock manifold?
Stock-design DP
Almost looks like it utilizes the stock intercooler piping
outside of the one or two fitment issues (TIP and shifter bracket), this almost seems ideal. $1800 is a bit of a tough sell though...


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## birdman61801 (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (abawp)*

No!!!!! Don't go to the darkside.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (birdman61801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *birdman61801* »_No!!!!! Don't go to the darkside.


Thats why I said it was a tough sell. $1800 is a good chunk of change that I don't think I could afford








Wonder whats up with that dyno....


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## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

Right, thats one of the eliminator kits. If you have the wearwithal to, well you dont' even have to goto the extent mike did, but to massage things a bit to make it all fit right its a good kit. But, also, for the power you want i'd look to the 28R kit instead. You'll get better spool, and you'll make 220-250whp no problem.


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## AUDITRANCE (Feb 10, 2003)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (abawp)*

if we all chip in a couple of bucks we can get olddubhead http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=12 to dyno his e05b and get some numbers maybe ending this long debate or possibly thickening the plot.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (AUDITRANCE)*

All this chatter and still no dyno????


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (sledge0001)*

Okay I am also now asking for opinions since we can't seem to get a dyno anywhere on this turbo...

I have started a poll here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3609448


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (sledge0001)*

hoenstly you should stick with a ko3s or just find a used ko4-20/22/23 kit from a 225 TT. The cost/hp isnt enough to warrent the ko4-001 and the e05 isnt proven or as powerful.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (cincyTT)*

I disagree if GIAC says that I can get 40-100 hp out of one of these then it certainly makes the 1200 investment seem quite resonable to me especially if I get to keep all of the bolt-ons that I have and possible even sneek by CALI emissions! 
I will try to be as objective as possible and report my findings along the way!!
It is a project! And I do want to be the first NB on vortex with this setup but I need GIAC's help and your help please vote!!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3609448



_Modified by sledge0001 at 1:57 PM 12-29-2007_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (sledge0001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sledge0001* »_I disagree if GIAC says that I can get 40-100 hp out of one of these then it certainly makes the 1200 investment seem quite resonable to me

Ok, 150 + 100 = 250hp 
You can get a entire ko4-22 setup for about $800-1k and both the compressor and turbine wheel will be bigger, not just the compressor wheel. 
If you want to keep things stockish, then go with a gt2x elim. It will make more power for the same cost


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## 02GTIFREESKIER (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (sledge0001)*

I think the E05b seems extremely worth it. Most of us(ko3er's) have upgraded TIP, and a nice TB exhaust already. 3" maf housings are easy enouh to find, and 380cc injectors are cheap. So for a college student such as myself, $2000 dollars for an upgraded turbo is great. Im excited to see the dyno, and finished product. I may follow suit shortly after the OP, and do this instead of an elim.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (02GTIFREESKIER)*

a carefully put together t3s60 or 50trim kit can run as little as $2400-2500.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (cincyTT)*

Gt2x eliminators won't fit a spd








Already looked into it..


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (sledge0001)*

spd


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (cincyTT)*

Oppps... I meant 6 speed.








Having a 6 Speed TipTronic trans takes away a few of goodies like a T.I.P. and some Hp









Place Your Vote:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3609448


_Modified by sledge0001 at 2:40 PM 12-29-2007_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (sledge0001)*

they do, you just have to be smarter. Just get the normal 3" inlet from himni-racing.com and then a cobra head 90* fitting. There are a handfull of people with 6spd running elims.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: E05B turbo questions (cincyTT)*

I did look in to the eliminators but it just seems to be too much work when I could just go ECU program, bolt the E05b on, injectors, and TT maf and call it a day!
That eliminator setup is sure to get me flagged at CA emissions inspection!
That is why I feel the stealthness of the E05b will be perfect! 
Place your vote:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3609448


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## Jetta4Life (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_
This was one of the main reasons I have considered the 28RS before and continue to toss around that idea. Which makes me wonder, is this:








the same as this?:








(maybe just missing a few parts?)

The first pic looks to be the GT2871R eliminator hardware kit rated for up to 400HP and the second pic GT28RS kit rated up to 350HP. I'm looking iinto the GT2871R kit myself http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: (Jetta4Life)*

Negative,
I belive that one comes with a manifold the other doesn't..
The eliminator's are not straight bolt - on's for those of us who have 6 speed tiptronic transmissions. This is a big downside in my mind because I would have to spend 2500 + to get the manifold and still no ecu software .. Blahhh http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Place Your Vote E05b or Not!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3609448



_Modified by sledge0001 at 12:15 PM 12-30-2007_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (sledge0001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sledge0001* »_Negative,
The eliminator's are not straight bolt - on's for those of us who have 6 speed tiptronic transmissions. This is a big downside in my mind because I would have to spend more $ to get the manifold.. Blahhh




_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_they do, you just have to be smarter. Just get the normal 3" inlet from himni-racing.com and then a cobra head 90* fitting. There are a handfull of people with 6spd running elims.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
they do, you just have to be smarter. Just get the normal 3" inlet from himni-racing.com and then a cobra head 90* fitting. There are a handfull of people with 6spd running elims.


I realize you have said it before but like I added about the same time you were responding with NO ecu software this package seems to be a waste of $ and once again not really a straight bolt on. Where as the E05b looks to be a bolt-on product that is able to use all oem locations and equiptment with a few exceptions (Injectors, Maf, and Software).... This is what I feel makes it the most appealing. The downside is that I have yet to see a dyno... 

Place Your Vote E05b or Not!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3609448


_Modified by sledge0001 at 12:26 PM 12-30-2007_


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