# First Spin in a New TT



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

So I got a first (short) stab at driving a TT dowin in Sebring this past weekend. At about 200 lbs. lighter than a GTI, the car is quick. Plus, it's really well sorted out suspension-wise. Trunk is also much larger than old car, as is rear seat room.
On my way into the race on race day, I was in my S4. We were staying with some other journos and Audi staff up in Celebration, FL. Since I was going in for the really early photographer's meeting and my driving partner wasn't, I left Anthony Garbis (also there with me) to drive in with the guy from MSN and I drove down in my S4. I ran into the Audiworld guys at one redlight and on green they went for it. It's not really a race story as we only went to 60 mph, but I noticed that the TT only gave up to the S4 above say 4500-5000 rpm, then I'd shift and the TT's DSG had closed the gap I'd gained. That's impressive acceleration as the TT was a 2.0T FWD and carrying two people as opposed to me alone in the S4.


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## ccd (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*

My question is whether there is enough of an improvement in rear seat room to make a difference. A person either fits back there or not. More space is not enough if it makes no real difference.


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## LazyT (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*

Any word from the Audi staff when the 2.0TQ would be released?


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## ZroDfx (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*

Thanks for the report, George.


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## A4Jetta (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*

Can't wait for full review on homepage.


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (ccd)*

Regardless of the rear seat room, you still won't have any *rear head room*. Squeeze someone in the back in a pinch, but you can't seriously consider the TT if you expect to haul others in the back, save su perro.


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## feverinlove (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (LongviewTx)*

I am waiting for the 2.0TQ to come out, but I dont really need quattro except 0-60 times. other than it barely snow or rains here. I also want quattro so that I dont get to own a FWD sports car.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (feverinlove)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feverinlove* »_I am waiting for the 2.0TQ to come out, but I dont really need quattro except 0-60 times. other than it barely snow or rains here. I also want quattro so that I dont get to own a FWD sports car.









I don't think they're going to do a 2.0TQ, at least not initially. Also DSG only for that motor.
Back seat is usable sitll for kids and storage. I'll try to get in there next time I'm in a car (in April).
I think they'll be on the market by late April, early May.


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## struTTer (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (ccd)*

There is ZERO room for an adult in the back. The only possible way for one adult to sit there would to sit long ways and then that person can't be very tall.
I'm 6'2" and I put the seat almost all the way back and that left about a 1" gap between the back of the drivers seat and the rear seat. It is nore or less a two seater with a parcel shelf.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (struTTer)*

Thanks for the clarification.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*

I hate to be an early adopter on VAG products because they seem to spruce up the line a year or two into the production.
MK1 TT - 225 HP in 2nd Year
C5 A6 - 2.7T and V8 in 2nd Year
I am suprised they didnt throw an LSD option at least on the 2.0T!
I am sorry as good as it is paying $35K for a FWD sports car is crazy IMHO.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 



_Modified by XM_Rocks at 4:25 PM 3-21-2007_


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (XM_Rocks)*

I hear rumblings of TTS and TTRS. Neither are confirmed for Europe or America yet, and neither name is specifically assigned to a given engine but there are development mules of several drivetrains floating around Ingolstadt. Obviously the 260hp S3 engine is one option, and there's always FSI in the 3.2. Last, there's the rumored turbocharged FSI 5-cyl we've heard comments on. I'd be most happy with the latter.


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## LazyT (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*

The 2.0TQ 230 hp TT is in the MK2's product cycle. It should be released in Europe by late Fall, but we will probably have to wait until 2008 for its release in the U.S. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## ccd (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (XM_Rocks)*

XM:
It may not be your cup of tea, but it is hardly crazy. To understand just how sane it is, look at the competition at 35k: the 350Z and the RX-8. Actually, I think the case can be made that the base TT is one heck of a value.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (ccd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ccd* »_
XM:
It may not be your cup of tea, but it is hardly crazy. To understand just how sane it is, look at the competition at 35k: the 350Z and the RX-8. Actually, I think the case can be made that the base TT is one heck of a value.

Both of those cars come with a nice 6MT and RWD. 
FWD is a cost saving platform.
I had a MK5 GTI... at $24K it was a steal. However for $24K I could forgive the FWD. At $35K I cant... and R32 has AWD for that price.


_Modified by XM_Rocks at 9:05 PM 3-21-2007_


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## ccd (Aug 1, 2006)

XM:
I'm not trying to change your mind, but I would take the TT over the 350Z and the RX-8 without a second thought and I suspect many others here would as well. 
The TT is a far more versatile package than the 350Z and has better torque than the RX-8. Both might be better than the TT on the track, but I most of us will probably be using the TT as a daily driver and the TT is superior to both cars on that basis. 
While both the 350Z and the RX-8 are manuals, not everyone regards that as a plus. I want DSG and DSG is one of the reasons why Audis are on the top of my shopping list. 
As for the R32, we both know the car is not in the TT's car class. If you are going to cut across car classes, why not throw in the WRX STI or EVO??? I doubt anyone in the market for any of these cars is also shopping for the TT. None of these cars is nearly as complete and sophisticated a package as the TT. Oh and if this were a beauty contest, the competition would be over before it got started. The TT makes all 3 look like dogs.
You are making a categorical statement that at some point between $24k and $35k, FWD stops making any sense. That may be true for you, but not for a lot of other people. 
I have yet to drive the TT, but it sure looks like it will set a bench mark for a combination of performance, sophisitication and versatility for $35k sports cars. Can you get more performance for $35k? Sure. Can you get a better balanced car? IMHO, no. And that is the hallmark of Audis: balance.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: (ccd)*

While I agree the TT's main draw is that it is a unique sporting coupe however the market may not ignore the nuts and bolts.
For the same price you can buy a 230HP 328 Coupe in RWD form. $3K more than a well optioned TT you can have yourself a nice 300HP BMW Coupe.








The above comes with more functionality and can be had with transmission choices.
I have brand allegiance... to a point. I personally will wait and buy one after it takes a 30% hit in depreciation. However new buyers on the market will cross shop. They are not blind to the brand.
Also Front Traks are harder to sell on the pre-owned market. Sure VAG will find homes for all 3,000 first year cars. However the reason there is a limit for first year production. When VAG introduces a 2.0T Quattro... with 6MT and a 300HP bump in a year or so say goodbye to your resell value.
Food for thought...all values from Suggested KBB Retail on 2000 models with 78K miles, stick and no options.
2000 Audi TT Front Trak - Value Today - $12,100... price new $30,500 - 65% loss








2000 BMW 323ci Coupe - Value Today - $16,365... price new $28,500 - 43% loss http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Two years into production cycle... 2002 w/67K miles
2002 Audi TT 180 Quattro Coupe - Value Today - $18,415... price new $32,950 - 44% loss http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
2002 BMW 325ci Coupe - Value Today - $18,800... price new $29,100 - 35% loss http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The Quattro coupe has done much better against the base BMW coupe than the front track model. 
History will repeat itself... Audi will throw in new models... thus hosing the early adopters of the base model.
Oh and BTW... I used to have a TT... a 180HP Quattro Coupe http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
It was underpowered and had sloppy handling... at least compared to the S2000 which was my car after the TT. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: (XM_Rocks)*

Yeah, but the long-term depreciation game isn't fair to Audis. The only one that does all that well is the A4 (actually better than any of its German rivals), but you take the A6 for example which is slumping in sales due to its long-term depreciation and C6 resale is like $5K more than the C5 was at the same age. So Audi's got a shorter term resale growth wave that hasn't hit some of the models like the TT yet, but likely will... especially with the new model.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I like to believe it is due to the FWD. It helps my argument.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I still say the FWD platform is for cost savings and this is the highest price FWD sports car ever made.
Couple that with the additions to the line down the road I am trying to make sure everyone is aware that it may affect valuation.
If you want FWD and DSG go for it... the first year car should be great. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
However I think I would wait for some depreciation to kick in and get a 4 year old MK2 V6 Quattro TT and slap a HPA kit making 450 HP!








Heck who am I kidding? I am so fickle who knows what my next car will really be...


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## ylwghost (Sep 30, 2004)

Does it have launch control?








-VW put out a TSB to enable lc, on the GTI's and GLI's (I don't think Audi has done the same yet)


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## A4Jetta (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I am very surprise at C6's resale, given at how Mercedes and BMW have aggressively promote their crazy lease programs for W211and E60. Both the residual value and lease rates are more healthy for A6 than both E-Class and 5-Series.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: (A4Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A4Jetta* »_I am very surprise at C6's resale, given at how Mercedes and BMW have aggressively promote their crazy lease programs for W211and E60. Both the residual value and lease rates are more healthy for A6 than both E-Class and 5-Series.

The C5 is what's killing the A6 right now as far as lease rates, but with better residuals, the C6 should be leasing much more competitively once the C5 is out of the picture.


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## ccd (Aug 1, 2006)

This is all speculative but let me offer a different perspective. I think the lowest depreciation will be for a lightly optioned TT 2.0. I fully agree that the 230 hp 2.0T with AWD will be highly desired. However, I think it will be priced closed to the 3.2 and will affect the depreciation on the 3.2, not the 2.0.
If I were only concerned with the lowest depreciation rate, I would get the 2.0T with maybe one of the optional paint colors so that the car would come in around $35k. I would then add a primo radio like the top of the line Pioneer MM receiver which would add nav, sat radio, ipod connection, and bluetooth for little more than the cost of the premium package alone.


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## idwurks (Oct 25, 2003)

*Re: (ccd)*

George you street racer you


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: (idwurks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idwurks* »_George you street racer you









Kill story. Kill story.


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## ylwghost (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Kill story. Kill story.









I assume the 3.2 should be nearly as quick as an S4 then, eh?
-that car really has my interest right now (just imagining the linear VR6 + quattro + ASF + Magnetic Ride + adaptive xenons! through the canyons)
an ~800 car payment is nothing these days anyway


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## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: (ylwghost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ylwghost* »_
I assume the 3.2 should be nearly as quick as an S4 then, eh?

Should be... Audi quotes the 3.2 as 0-62mph in 5.6 seconds.


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## GreenDice (Apr 22, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*

It is 5.5 sec on Audi web site's configurator.


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## andylyco (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (struTTer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *struTTer* »_There is ZERO room for an adult in the back. The only possible way for one adult to sit there would to sit long ways and then that person can't be very tall. ...It is more or less a two seater with a parcel shelf.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I mentioned this in another thread- the rear seat belts on our Mk1 TT are integrated into the seat, so when we removed the back seat (the 1st week we owned it) all the belts came with it. In the NEW TT, the rear shoulder belts and reels go into the C pillar. I figure you'll be able to remove the seat, and perhaps the reel and belt, but then you're left with an unsightly hole in your C pillar.http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
I understand the pillar mounted seat belts _might_ be a fraction safer, but come on... only grandkids and dogs can realistically use those seats.


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## jperryrocks (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (XM_Rocks)*

I wouldn't be losing much sleep that after 4 years BMW's 3 series resale was 3000 more than the TT. 75 bucks a month won't make me pull my hair out.
When gas goes from 2.00 to 3.00 a Gallon, you still have to buy gas. 
How much money do you spend on tires, long term maintenance, insurance, etc, etc. So everything is relative in life. 
In the end, you're arguing about a small amout of money. Buy what you like and enjoy it.
_Modified by jperryrocks at 1:32 PM 4/13/2007_


_Modified by jperryrocks at 1:33 PM 4/13/2007_


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (jperryrocks)*

XM,
you also live in TX. rear wheel drive is not what everyone wants.......traction is. once at an Audi training class we raced a Tip 180hp Q A4 w/ 4 people in it against a 745 w/ 4 people in it......on a gravel road. even with the traction control on, the A4 would KILL it every time. 
so if you live where it gets really wet and/or snows fwd in your performance coupe is a plus. ALSO go take a random person with regular driving skills and having him drive new TT 2.0t and a rwd equivalent and MOST will be faster on the track in the TT. it's easier to drive fast in. 
and since you're in Texas, get a modded 335 coupe and a modded 2.0t TT and do a freeway roll. a stgIII 2.0t is about the same hp as a modded 335. which will win? i'd put huge money on the TT. less drivetrain loss! 
so it depends on your needs in your performance coupe as to which is the better choice. 
also, LAUNCH CONTROL is in all DSG TTs to answer someone elses question. 
also x 2, the fwd TT drives VERY, VERY well in the turns and feels nothing like a mkV GTI.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: (jperryrocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jperryrocks* »_I wouldn't be losing much sleep that after 4 years BMW's 3 series resale was 3000 more than the TT. 75 bucks a month won't make me pull my hair out.


Point well taken... however I see it as getting Quattro for free.
Plus if someone dropped $3,000 on the ground would you pick it up?








I would.

_Quote, originally posted by *M this 1!* »_
and since you're in Texas, get a modded 335 coupe and a modded 2.0t TT and do a freeway roll. a stgIII 2.0t is about the same hp as a modded 335. which will win? i'd put huge money on the TT. less drivetrain loss! 
so it depends on your needs in your performance coupe as to which is the better choice. 


My entire point was that FWD TT's have not done as well as their AWD counterparts... in resale... so the slight bump to a AWD is free in the long term.
Comparing a modded 335i vs a modded 2.0T is not really fair for the TT.
A modded 335i needs only software programming to get close to 400HP. Stage 3 TT will need a bigger turbo... you will need to beef up the DSG... add LSD... exhaust. You are at least looking at $9,000 in mods. 
Now take them out to a track... see which driver has a bigger smile on their face from enjoyment and the best track time.
The wheelspin with GTI/A3 chipped FWD cars is there. So sure... its lighter... sure its "safer to drive at the limit". However the resell is lower... and once you modify the car you will have diminshing returns.. IMO FWD is not as fun as AWD. Especially when you throw gobs of HP at it.
My main point is Audi is doing it again... holding powertrain options for year 2 and 3. Again the early adopters are getting the shaft.
Take this all witha grain of salt because this is written from a person that would modify their car. When the 2.0T Quattro with 6MT comes out and people are dropping Stage 3 kits in making 400HP and Haldex controllers allowing you to shift the % of RWD thats when the TT would really appeal to me.
Again the 2.0T TT has two strikes against it for me... FWD and DSG.


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## waynewright (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (ccd)*

I don't see more room in the back of the TT as an "improvement" If you want a back seat buy an A4! The original TT formula is being diluted with the new models, as they try to be everything to everyone! For instance why not make the next TT an SUV! 
Audi should have made the New TT lighter and kept it small. That would have saved another 200 lbs! I don't want no back seat in my sports car. I can buy an R32 for that.


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## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (waynewright)*


_Quote, originally posted by *waynewright* »_
Audi should have made the New TT lighter and kept it small. That would have saved another 200 lbs! I don't want no back seat in my sports car. I can buy an R32 for that.

I hate to be the one to break it to ya, but the new TT is lighter.... a lot lighter.


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## ylwghost (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I hate to be the one to break it to ya, but the new TT is lighter.... a lot lighter.










I understood his comment to be "if it only gained the ASF (and not grown in size), it would be even lighter"
-And I agree to a point:
But that would be *only* if they had a B8 chassis coupe slotted under the A5. (which would be around the size of the MK2 TT)
(.. But also a good point about how light the TT is compared to the .:R http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )


_Modified by ylwghost at 1:51 PM 4-25-2007_


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## waynewright (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*

I of course know that the new TT is a tad lighter. My point is the car makers keep growing their popular models to ever larger interior and exteriors trying to appeal to a broader market. The new generation TT is not a classic design like the original. 20 years from now it will still be the original TT that is looked at as a design classic. Don't hate!


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (waynewright)*

Yes, all manufacturers do that, and eventually new, smaller models replace the line-up from below, as long as safety considerations allow.
Even the Beetle grew slightly over the years, yet, 20 years later, there are only two in people's mind: the Classic and the New.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (waynewright)*


_Quote, originally posted by *waynewright* »_I of course know that the new TT is a tad lighter. 

200lbs is not a "tad" lighter that is significantly lighter. Name current or revised car that dropped that much weight in a year. Please.......


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## ylwghost (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
200lbs is not a "tad" lighter that is significantly lighter. Name current or revised car that dropped that much weight in a year. Please.......


And the clincher is: "while gaining size"
(because I can only name the C6 Vette otherwise)


_Modified by ylwghost at 5:50 PM 4-30-2007_


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## ylwghost (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: First Spin in a New TT (feels_road)*


_Quote, originally posted by *feels_road* »_Yes, all manufacturers do that, *and eventually new, smaller models replace the line-up from below*, as long as safety considerations allow.
Even the Beetle grew slightly over the years, yet, 20 years later, there are only two in people's mind: the Classic and the New.









Which is interesting because that is what I have seen happen with the B5 A4 : 8P A3
-Just waiting for that "A3 quattro sport"


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