# Sticky  lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

I would like to get a Master ABA 16v Parts list/ ABA 16v FAQ thread going in order to help all of those who have many questions and are not sure about what specific parts are needed to make this work. Please post up if you have any info, just be sure that the info you are contributing is accurate and correct. I will Update the list every other day if not every day. If anything is wrong or if something needs to be added then post up and ill add it to the master list below. I want to try and keep the list as easy to understand as possible so it will answer many questions by reading it. Please help out with this thread as i am not doing it just to help out other Vortexers, but i myself need to know more info so i can gather all the needed parts so i can get the motor in my jetta and get megasquirt on and get the car running!
~Engine & Internals~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Block: OBD1 ABA
Crank: OBD1 ABA
Crank Bearings: ABA
Connecting Rods: OBD1 ABA
Pistons: 2.0L 16v
Rod Bearings: ????
Head: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v
Oil Pan: ABA
Headgasket: ABA or 2.0L 16v
~Intake & Exhaust~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Throttle Body: G60 or Automatic 16v
Intake Manifold: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v
~Belts & Pulleys~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Timing Belt: Eurosport ABA 16v Or OEM 150 Tooth 1.8T
Idler/Tensioner Pulley: 9A 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump: 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump Drive: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Crank Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Belt: 2.0L 16v
Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v
~Fuel & Spark~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Fuel Pump: Rabbit CIS
Fuel Filter: CIS
FPR: G60
Spark Plugs: 16v
Distributer: 16v
Spark Plug Wires: 16v
Distributer Block Off: TT Block Off Plate
~Options~
---------------------------------------------------------------
here is the changes you need to make for the following
1) High Boost Forced Induction-----------ABA pistons/ABA Rods
2) Mild Boost Forced Induction-----------9A pistons/ABA Rods
3) NA + Extreme Nitrous------------------See # 1
4) NA + Mild Nitrous-----------------------See # 2
5) High Compression---------------------ABF Pistons/ABA Rods
6) Stroker----------------------------------9A Pistons/TDI Crank
If your wanting to run MK3 Accessories here is what you need.
MK3 Tesioner Bracket
MK3 Alternator
ABA Crank Pulley-needs to be machined down
Non Power Steering Kit 
Power Steering Kit 

Thanks in advance :crosses fingers and hopes this thread takes off:








_Modified by German_Muscle at 9:39 PM 8-30-2004_


_Modified by German_Muscle at 1:25 AM 11-3-2004_


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## VwSpeedDemon2 (Apr 21, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

16v 2 liter oil pump
16v 2 liter crank pulley
16v 2 liter intermediate shaft
TT distributor block off plate


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## nbtstat -a1 (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VwSpeedDemon2)*

16v 2.0 - pulley set, interm shaft, oil pump, block off plate....
digi 1 - FPR 1bar
oem rabbit fuel pump


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## Cabby-Blitz (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

http://forum.vwsport.com/viewtopic.php?t=445
The only diff. between the ABA blocks are the crank and oil squirters. The rods are all the same from what I am hearing.


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## nbtstat -a1 (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Cabby-Blitz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cabby-Blitz* »_http://forum.vwsport.com/viewtopic.php?t=445
The only diff. between the ABA blocks are the crank and oil squirters. The rods are all the same from what I am hearing.

correct... 93 / 94 had the forged crank / oil squirts


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (nbtstat -a1)*

list updated.....Bump


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## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

When using 9a pistons on the aba rods you have to get new rod bushings from the dealer to fit with your wrist pins.


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (The Hater)*

so when i walk into the dealer i need to ask for what specifically? ABA or 16v rod bushings?


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

if you want to run mk3 access setup like I will do, need a custom crank pulley as Trac Racing are sellin, pulley for same conversion as the 1.8T in mk2 if I remember correct...
I'm startin setup this winter... keep you guys informed


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## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

ask for 16v rod bushings. this is only if you are going to use the 9a pistons, and aba rods. in the end you'll have 9a pistons, 16v wrist pins, 16v rod bushings, and aba rods...


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## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A3dOUde* »_if you want to run mk3 access setup like I will do, need a custom crank pulley as Trac Racing are sellin, pulley for same conversion as the 1.8T in mk2 if I remember correct...
I'm startin setup this winter... keep you guys informed

Word is you use the 16v crank pulley...why do you need this custom one exactly?


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (The Hater)*

the timing belt and pulley is wider with the 16v one on there so for the serpentine pulley to line up with the accesories and belt 6mm needs to be taken off the sepentine pulley.


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

well on mk3, you have the T-Belt crank pulley and another pulley for accessories.. but since the 16v crank pulley is wider, you need one custom made so everything lines up as stock...


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## Flat Black (Jan 27, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Good to see you started a list for everyone to go off of. You can also do the ABA Serpintine set-up if you want to. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
PS: You have IM.


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## junkyardjockey (Nov 11, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Flat Black)*

What CR would you end up with;if you used the 9A pistons in the ABA block???


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## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (junkyardjockey)*

9:1


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (MA_XXX)*

what about if you use ABA pistons and stack 2 ABA headgaskets? ~7.5:1?
What about motor mounts? all the MK1 motor mounts will work with this swap right? i have a poly front motor mount. Thanks


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## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Yah..all the mounts will work in a mk1, the 16v blocks should also have the provision on the passenger side of the motor for bolting up that motor mount. You'll also have to get the bracket for the trans..both the rear trans mount and the side trans mount.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (The Hater)*

Anyone here figure out a good way to cut valve reliefs with the pistons in the block? I'd take em out, but then I'd re-ring it, new bearings, etc and I don't want to go down that road.


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (junkyardjockey)*

Is there anyone out there that sells this conversion in a kit? Im a little confused the parts list shows that you must use the 16v pistons but everyone talks about using the aba pistons? I undestand that the aba pistons will give you a c/r of 8:1, so assuming that the 16v pistons arent the same what cr do they giv you? 


_Modified by mwebb95jetta at 4:21 PM 8-19-2004_


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mwebb95jetta)*

no there isnt really a kit out there. You just kinda haft to do it like this. It gets very confusing sometimes to. Im going to use the 2L 16v pistons because im going to run it as natural aspirated for a while and because im using a 16v head. you can run the ABA pistons to if you want to keep your compression ratio to a minimum. It all really depends on your preferance. The 16v pistons are flat tops with 2 valve indentions for the intake valves. the ABA pistons have a bowl in the piston. Here is some pics.
2.0L 16v(9A) Piston 








2.0L 8v(ABA) Piston


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

So then the list that we have above is for a na setup.


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mwebb95jetta)*

no, not really. im running N/A because lack of funds, next summer i will be bolting a SC61 to the engine with a few other goodies like Autronic. the ABA pistons give you a lil bit lower compression ratio thats all.


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

so right now you have the motor runnin on 8:1, and it runs good?


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mwebb95jetta)*

its not running yet, but yes it should run good, its not going to be fast but it will run fine


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

which charger are you gonna be running the SC61. Who makes that one. sorry im just starting to get into this project and i havent looked much into forced induction besides the BBM and the neuspeed.


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (mwebb95jetta)*

the SC61 is a Turbocharger,, it is about equal to a T61. Here is some info on it. http://www.precisionte.com/pro...rgers


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_it is about equal to a T61.

... but with a waay more efficent compressor wheel of the GT family.


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

link doesnt work but oh well I think im gonna with more reliable source of power,supercharger. I wouldnt mind going turbo but dont want to shell out the cash.


_Modified by mwebb95jetta at 7:58 PM 8-20-2004_


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## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (mwebb95jetta)*

what supercharger do you plan on running that is both reliable and more cost effective?


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (The Hater)*

Well before I was thinking about doing the 16v head swap, I was going to get the Neuspeed, but havent really thought about it since I decided to do the head swap.


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

bump for a good thread


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## Cabby-Blitz (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mwebb95jetta)*

Does someone have a picture of the 9a IT shaft gear?
Want to see the diff. between the 9a and the ABA. Cause I want to see if I can do some work to get the 9a gear on the ABA shaft so then I can use the ABA oil pump and not have to source all of the 9a parts.


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Cabby-Blitz)*










for piston, if you don't need to oversize bore dimension, juste find a euro dealer that may sell you some 82.5 x 92.8mm 10.5:1 CR ABF pistons...
btw, I've got a quote for VW oversized ABF 83mm x 92.8mm 10.5:1 at 1400$cdn + shipping and taxes....








still don't know what to do


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

Eurospec sports has cast ABF pistons for the ABA to give you a 10:1 ratio for $289 usd. if you want a 10.5:1 you could deck the block or head slightly. They also have pistons for use with 83mm and 83.5mm bores and 95.5mm stroke for a little more money. Use the money you save to buy some aggresive cams from autotech or TT.

The ABA pistons will give you an 8.1:1 CR and the 9A pistons should give you an 8.5:1 CR, both are good for boost.


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

Bump, I updated the list. I also am waiting on UPs to deliver a bunch of parts i just ordered. Ill be sure and post up if i have any advice or any questions about the swap. I also want to note that i am using a ABF Full Intake Manifold and a OBD1 ABA Throttle Body. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Why the ABF manifold? It would be great for NA gains in low end, but since you are going turbo, why not a short runner intake?


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_Why the ABF manifold? It would be great for NA gains in low end, but since you are going turbo, why not a short runner intake?

Well the ABF manifold is actually bigger than the Euro 50mm 16v manifolds, Plus it will look great and it only cost me 310 shipped, short runner manifolds are prolly way more expensive. I doubt itll be a bottleneck since im using a SC61 Turbocharger, if it does become a bottleneck ill just have it port and polished. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

German Muscle, if you dont mind me asking how much do you think your gonna spend all said and done? Are you installing it all yourself?


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mwebb95jetta)*

what all are you wanting prices on? yes i am doing it myself.


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

ive changed my mind a little im planning on going turbo, with the 16 v head swap with fordged aba pistons and rods. Just wanted to see what all im gonna end up spending.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

I know the ABF is bigger than the 50mm euro manifold, But bigger means more piping and more space to fill, which takes longer to pressureize, inducing more lag. 
It shouldn't be a big concern for you running that big of a charger, but a 40mm manifold will fill up faster than a 42mm or 50mm. A short runner would gain you even more and you could use whatever throttle body you want with it, any where you need it to make routing easier, and I've seen them going for good prices on here. hkk735 is making them for pretty cheap, ask him what they are going for.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Ok, hkk735 has short runners for between 375 and 450, more info here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1552186
more pics of 2.0 8v crossflow here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1559924
and Vr one here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1559920


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

problem with eurospecsport pistons... is that the 83mm x 92.8mm pistons have a CR at 13:1 and it is WAY too much for a daily application...
If I remember correctly there is a pic in here of an ABF intake mani and the TB on it is a VR6 OBD1 TB and it fits perfect... seems that the hole is bigger than the ABA 8v one...


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mwebb95jetta)*

german muscle no reply? Im just curoius cause i want to go pretty much the same route, and am wondering how much im gonna be spending around.


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## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

there is another thing im kind of confused on turbo wise, I am looking for a kit for a 16v right not an ABA setup. Or would that even work cause ive been told that you have to use a scricco manifold?


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## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mwebb95jetta)*

you can use whatever 16v manifold you'd like...
your going to need a turbo manifold for a 16v.


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (The Hater)*

My turbo setup will consist of the following:
Autronic SM2
750CC Injectors
SC61 Turbocharger
Zornig Tubular Turbo Manifold
Mitsu Evo 8 Intercooler
Autolab LLC Racing 3.5 inch Downpipe
TiAL Sport 40mm External Wastegate
Dual Greddy Type S Blow Off Valves
Blitz Dual Turbo Timer
Blitz DUAL SBC TYPE R Boost Controller
Greddy Electronic 60mm Peak/Hold EGT Guage
3.5 inch Exhaust dump
2 inch Wastegate dump
i think thats about it, if i want any more power, i doubt i will but id have a intercooler sprayer that sprays freon through the intercooler. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MischievousMkIIGTI (Mar 12, 2004)

I've got a 91 1.8l 8v GTI (Used to be daily, couldn't bring myself to get rid of it, so now it's a project)
I was originally just gonna use a 2.0l 16v out of a B3 Passat for my first engine swap (teaching myself as I go) but as of late I've been getting interested in turbos so I'm thinking I might try to knock out a few first in one fell swoop.... How hard would this be for my first semi-custom engine build, first turbo project, and first swap all in one?
Would you recommend something else? I was just gonna do the 2.0l 16v cause from what I can tell it is a very direct swap into my car.


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

Bump


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## RallyeVW (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Where can a get good pistons for a na application with 10:1 to 11:1 compression?


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## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (RallyeVW)*

Eurospec has em. Regular cast pistons from 82.5mm to 83.5mm they are all 10:1. The forged pistons are the crazy 13:1.


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ROBHARMER)*

I have not found 83mm x 92.8mm 16v 10.5:1 cast pistons on eurospecsport's website...
only the 82.5 @ 10.5:1 and the 83mm @ 13:1
porttuning.com has some 83mm but at 11.5:1.... do you think that with that kind of compression even with a diesel 02A starter (since I'm converted to 02A) and a lower octane fuel I would be safe enough to ride my ABA16v in the winter temps we have over here ??? To give you an idea, -30*C may happen 2-3 days in a row... constant -20*C...


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## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

im not sure what a cr ratio like that would do in those temps, but here is a link to those pistons on eurospec 
http://www.eurospecsport.com/db/details.php?id=44


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ROBHARMER)*

those are 2l 16v 9a pistons... bloc height 220mm... aren't ABA/ABF bloc height is 236mm ???


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## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

your using a 16v head so you would use pistons that have relifs cut in them, the aba pistons have a big bowl in them lowering the cr so with the 16v flat tops it increases it. you could also mill your head. thatll raise it.


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ROBHARMER)*

I've never said I would used 8v ABA pistons ? I'm talkin of bloc height...
secondo, I've found some 83mm x 92.8mm 10:1 ABA16v spec pistons on eurospecsport website... forged ones at 960$US














My friend paid is G60 oversized JE pistons 920$cdn all included...


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

Eurospec sports definately has them for a 236mm deck height with both a 92.8mm and 95.5 stroke in 82.5mm, 83mm and 83.5mm bores, all with a 10:1 CR. They are cast, not forged and 289 to 319 in price. You don't need forged unless you are running boost which at a 10:1 CR you should not be doing. Cast allows you to run tighter tolerances on rings and end gaps as they won't expand as much as forged.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

Here are the ones you want for a stock bore: http://www.eurospecsport.com/db/details.php?id=30


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

Here is .5mm overbore for those who need their bores cleaned up and bored out: http://www.eurospecsport.com/db/details.php?id=43


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

Here are stock bore size for using a TDI crank and still having a 10:1: http://www.eurospecsport.com/db/details.php?id=50
Here is .5mm overbore and TDI crank: http://www.eurospecsport.com/db/details.php?id=56


_Modified by all-starr-me at 8:00 PM 9-24-2004_


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

never see those when I've browse on their website !








Jose at porttuning quote me forged Wiseco @ 10.5:1 for 550$+shipping... those are cast for 319$usd...

which am I gonna buy








I'm not gonna add a spray kit so... is it a real need to have forged pistons ? But the .5 point in CR will make a bit more power than the 10:1... 
think I need help folks










_Modified by A3dOUde at 12:52 PM 9-25-2004_


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

Well, put in the cast ones, then deck the block to get a 10.5:1 CR. The stock bore ones are 289, and any good machine shop should be able to tell how much needs removed for a .5 bump in compression ratio, it won't be very much material at all, less than the thickness of one gasket. They will usually include that if they are building your head or block as they want both surfaces to be flush and not warped when they bolt them up.


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## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

well i think i got hosed on here, so i am gonna just not do this and put the jetta on the back burner and just buy a friends car. If i cant get my money back on everything i bought(pretty much all the engine stuff) i may be taking a trip to philly. Sad to cause this is the first time ive gotten screwed on the vortex.


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_well i think i got hosed on here, so i am gonna just not do this and put the jetta on the back burner and just buy a friends car. If i cant get my money back on everything i bought(pretty much all the engine stuff) i may be taking a trip to philly. Sad to cause this is the first time ive gotten screwed on the vortex.









this is really bad to hear... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Good luck and hope you'll stay around http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Can an ABA throttle body be used?


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

yes, it will make wiring simpler, but you will have to make an adapter plate or have the hole welded to fit it.


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## LouderLowerFaster (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Ok so just let me get this straight, if I was to swap a 16v head onto my aba block I would need all this?:
Pistons: 2.0L 16v
Head: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v
Throttle Body: G60 or Automatic 16v
Intake Manifold: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v 
Timing Belt: Eurosport ABA 16v Or OEM 150 Tooth 1.8T
Idler/Tensioner Pulley: 9A 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump: 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump Drive: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Crank Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Belt: 2.0L 16v
Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v 
Fuel Pump: Rabbit CIS
Fuel Filter: CIS
FPR: G60
Spark Plugs: 16v
Distributer: 16v
Spark Plug Wires: 16v
Distributer Block Off: TT Block Off Plate
Im guessing that you cant do this swap with $400?


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

I talked to someone here on the forums a while ago that has a 9A head on an ABA block (2008cc was his s/n) and he said all I needed was "16v oil pump, intermediate shaft, and drive gear and distributor block off piece, and the longer timing belt". He's done this setup so why are people saying that we need the 9A pulleys now? Unless he forgot to mention that, which I doubt...
Also, does anyone make adapters to use the ABA throttle body with the 9A intake manifold? And will the ABA fuel injectors fit in 9A manifold as well?


_Modified by Chris164935 at 10:24 AM 9-28-2004_


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

if you wanna keep your mk3 accessories, you'll need a modified crank pulley since the t-belt is larger than 8v, the 8v pulley won't fit anymore...
secondo, for the 9a pistons, in a 236mm tall bloc, Compression Ratio will drop from 10:1 to 9:1....


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## LouderLowerFaster (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A3dOUde* »_if you wanna keep your mk3 accessories, you'll need a modified crank pulley since the t-belt is larger than 8v, the 8v pulley won't fit anymore...


and if i get that i wont need anything else off that list? (besides head and mani) that sounds too easy










_Modified by LouderLowerFaster at 11:28 AM 9-28-2004_


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (LouderLowerFaster)*

Youll still need most of the list but if you want to run your mk3 ac alternator water pump and ps pump youll need that pulley.


----------



## mwebb95jetta (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

Who makes one?


----------



## punkindrublic843 (Feb 18, 2004)

*Re: (mwebb95jetta)*

ok im thinking bout buying a complete aba engine, put it into my mk2, run that around till i can get al the 16v parts i need, then start to peice it together. a main concern is the wiring. would i use the obd1 wiring? since im buying a complete aba i woudl liek to use as much of the mk3 accessories as i can. o i would need that special pulley and then what 16v parts?


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (LouderLowerFaster)*

Are you going turbo or N/A? The 9A pistons will give you an 8.5-9:1 compression ratio, great for turbo, but you still won't gain much from keeping it N/A. If you aren't going for a charger then factor in some good cams, or at the very least a euro intake cam. 
If you are OBD 1 you should be able to use the g-60 or auto 16v throttle body, otherwise you will need an adapter plate to fit your aba throttle to the manifold. 
You left out a 16v fuel rail, bbm or ross machine racing have them. you will need digi injector cups to make your injectors fit. 
If you are staying N/A then get the ABF pistons that I posted on the previous page. The distributor block off plate comes from a 16v engine, the one TT sells is to block off your breather, not your distributor. 
Use you A3 accesories, but you will need 6mm shaved from the serpentine pulley. I have seen some people weld or machine the 16v intermediate timing gear to fit on the 8v intermediate shaft, saves having to change the oil pump and intermedait shaft, but leaves you with an extra distributor.
For N/A gains try and get a 50mm euro manifold or an ABF with fuel rail and throttle body. for turbo a short funner will be better.
You could do this swap with 400, but it wouldn't either A.) be turbo and B.) gain you very much if any real power.


----------



## LouderLowerFaster (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_Are you going turbo or N/A? The 9A pistons will give you an 8.5-9:1 compression ratio, great for turbo, but you still won't gain much from keeping it N/A. If you aren't going for a charger then factor in some good cams, or at the very least a euro intake cam. 
If you are OBD 1 you should be able to use the g-60 or auto 16v throttle body, otherwise you will need an adapter plate to fit your aba throttle to the manifold. 
You left out a 16v fuel rail, bbm or ross machine racing have them. you will need digi injector cups to make your injectors fit. 
If you are staying N/A then get the ABF pistons that I posted on the previous page. The distributor block off plate comes from a 16v engine, the one TT sells is to block off your breather, not your distributor. 
Use you A3 accesories, but you will need 6mm shaved from the serpentine pulley. I have seen some people weld or machine the 16v intermediate timing gear to fit on the 8v intermediate shaft, saves having to change the oil pump and intermedait shaft, but leaves you with an extra distributor.
For N/A gains try and get a 50mm euro manifold or an ABF with fuel rail and throttle body. for turbo a short funner will be better.
You could do this swap with 400, but it wouldn't either A.) be turbo and B.) gain you very much if any real power.

aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh F*ck it. I just bought the TT kit - adj cam, camshaft, valve springs, arp studs, giac 268 chip, and gasket set all for $225 so that will keep me happy until i sell the golf and buy a S13 240sx and turbo it for 240+hp http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by LouderLowerFaster at 10:20 PM 9-28-2004_


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_Also, does anyone make adapters to use the ABA throttle body with the 9A intake manifold? And will the ABA fuel injectors fit in 9A manifold as well?

...?


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

yes, any machine shop should be able to make an adapter to fit the ABA throttle body on the 16v manifold, Get some gaskets from both to use as templates. The injectors will fit if you put digi injector cups in the manifold.


----------



## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (mwebb95jetta)*

I know Trac Racing sells a pulley for 1.8T in mk3 conversion pulley that will fit our need http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

Guys, I have a full ABA/16v setup ready to be put together:
HERE
Just in case anyone wants the easy way out.


----------



## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

for a bolt on turbo setup... there will still be some missing parts... so imagine in a n/a setup...
but officially, it's a good start at a fair price


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A3dOUde* »_for a bolt on turbo setup... there will still be some missing parts... so imagine in a n/a setup...
but officially, it's a good start at a fair price









Thanks.


----------



## urspeedracer (Mar 7, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

has anyone tried this 16v conversion on a 2002 avh 2.0 engine? can it be done?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (urspeedracer)*

I was looking into doing that. I used to have a 2003 AVH motor. The thing is that that motor uses coil packs. Not sure if you can go from coil packs to distributor, or vice versa. If you can, I'm pretty sure it won't be cheap.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (urspeedracer)*

With the later 2.0 from 99 on (engine code AEG, AVH, etc.) you are better off going with a 20v head as it will need much less work, all the oil passages line up perfect. That will be a whole new beast altogether and I haven't taken an AEG block apart yet so I'm not sure what it needs, besides a 20v head and timing gears. Using an AEB 20v head you can use the internals over from a 16v block, but some later 20v's have a different size timing gear and I'm not sure how they would work. Also that is going to be much costlier to do as the 20v heads are 500+ where i can get a 16v head for 50, have it rebuilt and ported for less than a stock 20v. Personally I like the ABA blocks because of the rod/stroke ratio is so good. the AEG/AVH 2.0's have went back to the shorter 144mm rods like a 9A or 3A block. If you were going to do it cheap I would get an ABA block as they are cheap and build it up to swap in. otherwise start your own thread on how to build a 20/20 and ask lots of people or experiment on your own to find what works.


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

this may help out with the 20v swap
http://www.race101.com/project_2020.html


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

up


----------



## LouderLowerFaster (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Ok I need some help guys. I should be coming across around $800, and I want to do a 16v swap. However, Im going to be running it NA. Ive read this thread but its confusing because I never know if people are talking about parts for a FI setup or NA, so could somone give me a complete list of parts within an $800 range that would give me worthy gains while staying naturally aspirated. I offered Paul ("i need a vr6") the $400 for his kit. So with the additional $400, what should I buy, besides the needed belts and gaskets, that would give me better gains? Also, how difficult is it to do this swap? The extent of my vw experience only goes as far as installing my own shocks/struts, replacing my starter and alternator, etc. I also reasembled a smashed 240sx front end.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (LouderLowerFaster)*

Hmm...Not sure if you'd be able to do it with $400. After getting the head, you'll probably (well, you should, anyway) have to get the head cleaned up, decked, and the valves reseated. That ran me about $300 for parts and labor to do my head (they also installed a cam). And, because the chamber volume on the 16v head is bigger, you'll have a lower compression. So, to do NA, you'll need new high compression pistons (or, if you want, you could use like-new 9a pistons. Without the higher compression pistons, the gains won't be very high (unless you turbo).
Okay, my turn to ask a question: Will a different ECU be needed for this swap or will the stock ECU for ABA motors be okay? Or rather, what would be the best choice (price and performance-wise) without going stand-alone?


----------



## LouderLowerFaster (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*



Chris164935 said:


> Hmm...Not sure if you'd be able to do it with $400. After getting the head, you'll probably (well, you should, anyway) have to get the head cleaned up, decked, and the valves reseated. That ran me about $300 for parts and labor to do my head (they also installed a cam). And, because the chamber volume on the 16v head is bigger, you'll have a lower compression. So, to do NA, you'll need new high compression pistons (or, if you want, you could use like-new 9a pistons. Without the higher compression pistons, the gains won't be very high (unless you turbo).
> 
> 
> > Yea Im getting 9A pistons included in the $400 kit, and the head is said to be "clean" as it is already. So again I ask, what are some extra parts that would be ideal to get with a $400 budget?


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

here is the changes you need to make for the following
1) High Boost Forced Induction-----------ABA pistons/ABA Rods
2) Mild Boost Forced Induction-----------9A pistons/ABA Rods
3) NA + Extreme Nitrous------------------See # 1
4) NA + Mild Nitrous-----------------------See # 2
5) High Compression---------------------ABF Pistons/ABA Rods
6) Stroker----------------------------------9A Pistons/TDI Crank
If anyone has a diff setup they had in mind post up and ill tell you what piston/rod combo you need


_Modified by German_Muscle at 12:46 PM 11-2-2004_


----------



## LouderLowerFaster (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

where can I get ABF rods for cheap? and what will the rods and 9A pistons bring my C/R to?


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (LouderLowerFaster)*

you want ABF pistons, ABA and ABF rods are the same. I posted links in this thread on where to get ABF pistons for $289. Also I would budget in the near future for some cams, autotech or techtonices sport cams, or at the very least a euro intake cam.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

But what about the ECU? Can this setup be run without a stand-alone?


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

yes it can be done with the stock ecu, although I would get a 3.5 bar FPR and a custom chip at the least, or a piggy back to adjust it yourself. You will need to drill/tap your manifold for the intake air sensor and use injector cups from a digi setup for the injectors. Part of the reason why to do this swap is the aba bottom end allows you to use the crank trigger wheel built into the block that the stock management uses. standalone may be better and more aggresive but for those saving your pennies, motronic 2.9+ makes good power, gets good milage and is a huge advantage over CIS/Digi.


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_you want ABF pistons, ABA and ABF rods are the same. I posted links in this thread on where to get ABF pistons for $289. Also I would budget in the near future for some cams, autotech or techtonices sport cams, or at the very least a euro intake cam.

My bad, i fixed the post above. I dont think you can use the ABF pistons with the TDI crank can you?


_Modified by German_Muscle at 12:58 PM 11-2-2004_


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

Eurospec sports has ABF cast pistons to use with both the 2.0L (92.8mm) and the TDI (95.5mm) cranks and keep a 10:1 CR. I would say the 9A pistons could be used with the TDI crank and would come pretty close to 10:1 if not higher. You can always deck the block or the head for more compression.


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Updating the Main list. Check it out. I added the above info and MK3 accessory conversion info to the list. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_yes it can be done with the stock ecu, although I would get a 3.5 bar FPR and a custom chip at the least, or a piggy back to adjust it yourself. You will need to drill/tap your manifold for the intake air sensor and use injector cups from a digi setup for the injectors. Part of the reason why to do this swap is the aba bottom end allows you to use the crank trigger wheel built into the block that the stock management uses. standalone may be better and more aggresive but for those saving your pennies, motronic 2.9+ makes good power, gets good milage and is a huge advantage over CIS/Digi.

Custom chip? Like an Autotech chip (just an example)? One designed for the ABA motor right? ...And just replace the stock unit?


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_yes it can be done with the stock ecu, although I would get a 3.5 bar FPR and a custom chip at the least, or a piggy back to adjust it yourself. You will need to drill/tap your manifold for the intake air sensor and use injector cups from a digi setup for the injectors. Part of the reason why to do this swap is the aba bottom end allows you to use the crank trigger wheel built into the block that the stock management uses. standalone may be better and more aggresive but for those saving your pennies, motronic 2.9+ makes good power, gets good milage and is a huge advantage over CIS/Digi.

The only stock engine management system id use with this setup is Digifant 1 with a completely custom burnt chip, or OBD1 ABA Motronic with a completely custom chip. But for those who are saving pennies, just get Megasquirt N Spark, using stock engine management for such a hybrid engine is most likely going to cost you in the long run. Megasquirt is a extremely good stand alone engine management system for the cost. Megasquirt is the way to go if you have a low budget. so IMHO stand alone is the only way to go with this setup. You can get away with chipped stock systems but stand alones will do the same and much much more. In other words what i am saying is....Dont Cut any Corners, do it the right way! The only way id use a stock management system is if i already had all of the stuff laying around, like if i was doing this to a car that came stock with or was already running ABA Motronic or Digi1 systems. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

What does an ABA OBDII run (circa 1997)?


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## LouderLowerFaster (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_What does an ABA OBDII run (circa 1997)?

If by run, you mean in the 1/4 mile....mine ran a 17.4 with Neuspeed chip and intake....







. I really shouldnt advertise that


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (LouderLowerFaster)*

I mean fule-injection... Is it Motronic?


----------



## RangeRover (Apr 9, 2004)

*cam sensor*

how do you get around the camsensor when converting to the 16v head.


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## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: cam sensor (RangeRover)*

ok, I'm seriously confused here








I recently dropped a 96 2.0 engine/tranny/ecu/wiring harness/dash etc etc into my 92 jetta and was thinking about putting a 16v head on it later on. I did a search and came across this but I seem to be just getting a headache. I have access to a full passat 16v head, can anyone tell me what I need to put this on? Will 9a pistons give me a c/r of 9:1+/-? can my current 96 obdII ecu handle this change?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: cam sensor (redlineracing)*

9A pistons will give you a CR of about 9:1 with a stock headgasket. The ABA uses larger wrist pins so you have to get the rods rebushed for the smaller 9A wrist pin.
You'll still need the rest of the conversion parts: int shaft, pump gear, block off plate, intermediate shaft gear, crank gear, distro, etc. 
You also need a Passat 16v auto throttle body to get a TPS.
You can run a 16v head off of Motronic, by swapping the 4 window trigger wheel in the distro for the ABA's single window. I'm not sure how that should line up so you should defnitely examine your stock ABA distro and how the trigger wheel lines up at TDC for refrence.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: cam sensor (need_a_VR6)*

up


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

tried to find this info cant find it so i`ll ask when you run the mkIII accesories with the swap do you machine down the 16v pully or the aba pully and what all is involved in using the obd II system from the aba with the 16v head. also has any one heard of a valve clearence issuse when usin the aba pistons


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

Shave the ABA pulley 6mm as that is how much wider the 16v timing gear is.


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

why do you need to use the 9a oil pump and intermediate shaft? Why can't you leave the bottom end alone?
I am working on an ABA 16vT right now and I am going to go pick up a 1994 ABA motor tomorrow. I have a 1.8L 16vhead that I am going to put on it. Why should I change the oil pump?


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

You will have to forgive my ignorance, but I have been looking in the archives and haven't found an answer to my question. What CR do you get when you use an 95.5 crank, in an ABA block, with ABA rods, & 9A pistons? I would like to turbo the set up. Or do I need to use the 9A rods? Is a ABA piston taller from wrist pin to top than the 9A? Sorry is these sound like silly questions, but the help would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

ok, reasons to change the intermediate shaft are because the timing gear is wider and the ABA intermediate shaft doesn't fit the 16v intermediate shaft gear. The 16v intermedaiate shaft, from a 9A, fits right in and uses the correct width timing gear. Truth be told you can use the ABA oil pump with the 9A intermediate shaft, but the distributor is in the head on the 16v so having 2 distributors is unnnesesary. Therefore the 9A oil pump, drive gear and distributor hole plug are used. 
If you wanted to go the other way to use the block distributor and block off the distributor on the head, you could get a block off plate from eurospeed.ca, the put the 9A intermediate shaft in the block and bolt a 16v cam gear in place of the intermediate gear, then leave your ABA oil pump and distributor, but then you may need longer wires, the distributor may hit the head and you may need to change the cam window between the 1 and 4 window style depending on what management you are using.


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

Thanks alot! so i cant use the ABA oil pumo with the 9a intermediate shaft?


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hasnfefr)*

The 9A rods are way to short to use in the ABA block. Also using the 95.5 TDI crank with either 9A or ABA pistons will give you a fairly high compression ratio (somewhere in the 10.5-11.5:1) which will be too high for turbo. 
Also you only gain .05L from the TDI crank, you could just turn up the boost 3 psi to get the same gain. Maybe if you use the ABA pistons and have them valve clearanced and them add a head space or several gaskets you can get the compression down enough for a turbo, or you could get eurospec sport ones for the ABF with an 95.5mm stroke and add a headspacer. 
The cost of a TDI crank vs. the cost of an intercooler to use more boost, I know which one I would choose.
The ABA pistons are also shorter than the 9A pistons. Heres a good link to find your compression: http://not2fast.wryday.com/tur...shtml


_Modified by all-starr-me at 1:00 AM 11-27-2004_


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

yes, the drive gears mesh the same for either oil pump, you just have an extra distributor left over, I would leave it in with a cap so it seals off the hole in the block under it.


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

i have a complete 9a engine minus the oil pump and crankshaft,so i can just use the block off plate from that.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

probably not as the oil pump drive gear is attatched to the distributor, but if you can cut it off and it will still work on the oil pump then it might work, I just have not tried that.


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

could I use the 9a oil pump drive gear?


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

Thanks for the tips Jason. You could get the compression down enough with a spacer and a head gasket on either side? I know they spacer a normal 16v motor to bring down the CR for boost. A 9A is like 10:1 right? See, I already have a 95.5 crank that is new, and JE pistons[9A] that are 83.5mm. I have all the internal 9A stuff I need. I just have to get a ABA. Hey do you ride BMX? I have friends that work at FBM by you. Thanks again.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hasnfefr)*

The 9A pistons (rebushed) with ABA rods yield ~9.2:1 with an ABA crank, the TDi crank adds ~ 1 more point of compression so you would have ~10.2:1 (too high for turbo). What compression are your pistons for? 9A is 10.8:1 stock and yields ~10.2:1 in ABA with TDi crank so to approximate compression subtract 0.6 points from whatever your pistons are for.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

You would have to try the drive gear when you open it up, I haven't had a good chance yet to see how different the oil pumps/gears are, but it may work.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hasnfefr)*

You could prabably get the pistons dished out a little more by a machine shop, or just go with an EIP or C2 headspacer to get the compression your shooting for. I used to skate with some of the FBM guys, not so much anymore.


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_The 9A pistons (rebushed) with ABA rods yield ~9.2:1 with an ABA crank, the TDi crank adds ~ 1 more point of compression so you would have ~10.2:1 (too high for turbo). What compression are your pistons for? 9A is 10.8:1 stock and yields ~10.2:1 in ABA with TDi crank so to approximate compression subtract 0.6 points from whatever your pistons are for.
Wow, you just confused the crap out of me. LOL. It's hard to say but the pistons look like stock shaped JE's. I keep reading what you wrote and it's starting to make sense. Man I'm thick skulled. LOL. I want to get 8.5:1. I have to loose 2.'s of CR. Will deshrouding the valves and polishing the combustion chaber gain me some then maybe spacer it. Man, I hate to use a spacer.


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_You could prabably get the pistons dished out a little more by a machine shop, or just go with an EIP or C2 headspacer to get the compression your shooting for. I used to skate with some of the FBM guys, not so much anymore.
Maybe if I dish the piston a little and deshroud the valves in the head I can make up 2.'s of CR. That seams like a lot to make up. Man this sucks! LOL.


----------



## azninferno (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hasnfefr)*

ive been readin this whole thing, and im still a little unclear. Im gunna turbo my setup, and i have a 1.8L 16v motor and an ABA tallblock. Am i set with parts? or do i still need the 9A intermediate shaft and sprocket, pump gear, and oil pump?


_Modified by azninferno at 11:48 PM 11-28-2004_


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

if i were to keep the aba distributor instaled in the block i could use that with the stock ecu and all should be fine right


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (azninferno)*

You will still need the 9A parts, the PL (1.8L 16v) parts would work if you were using any 1.8L block, but for the 2L ABA you need parts from a 2L 9A.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

yes, you should be able to run it on motronic but it will be a little easier with OBD 1 than 2. You should have a chip made for it though, I hear techtonics makes them for ABF/16v ABA's, unless you are going with a turbo or supercharger them go with C2. You should make an adapter plate so you can use your OBD 2 throttle body unless you move the switches from it to a 16v one. You got the part about using a 16v cam gear on your intermediate shaft, right? Otherwise it wont turn at the right speed. Its a straight bolt on if you use a 9A intermediate shaft, otherwise you will have to mod the ABA intermediate shaft to get the 16v cam gear onto it.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hasnfefr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hasnfefr* »_Wow, you just confused the crap out of me. LOL. It's hard to say but the pistons look like stock shaped JE's. I keep reading what you wrote and it's starting to make sense. Man I'm thick skulled. LOL. I want to get 8.5:1. I have to loose 2.'s of CR. Will deshrouding the valves and polishing the combustion chaber gain me some then maybe spacer it. Man, I hate to use a spacer.

since you are going with a larger bore you could unshroud the valves all the way out to the new bore diameter, this should gain you some space to lower the compression but I'm not sure how much.


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

how far can i go with this with a chip before the system is maxed i want to run some boost or high compresion and some serious cams not sure which way is better i need to keep the stock ecu so that when i get tested for emisions they can still plug the car in if not it will fail damn MD laws


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

also your compresion ration depends on the head used either a 1.8 or a 2.0 the 1.8 will give the highe of the two correct?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_also your compresion ration depends on the head used either a 1.8 or a 2.0 the 1.8 will give the highe of the two correct?

nope, same size combustion chambers and therefore compression.


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

Ok, so I got my ABA engine tonight. I pulled the pan and oil pump, and the 16v oil pump and 8v oil pump are different. The 16v oil pump is driven by splines on its input shaft while the ABA oil pump is driven by a rectangle (for lack of better words) on top of its input shaft


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

The C2 chips are being used with the kinetics turbo kit. I saw it put down better than 350 whp on a turbo VR6, so chip tuning has potential, but you should really sit down and figure out before hand what your total budget is and how much power you need. If staying NA then I would get some sport cams, a 50mm or ABF intake manifold and eurospec sport pistons. If going turbo a stock manifold or short runner, stock or a euro intake cam and ABA or 9A pistons. Remember when going turbo though, take your total costs of all the parts, add them up then double that number at least for your total budget.


_Modified by all-starr-me at 6:53 AM 12-31-2005_


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

Well, you could try changing the input shafts, cutting the drive gear off the ABA distributor, or just leaving the distributor and living with it.


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_Well, you could try changing the input shafts, cutting the drive gear off the ABA distributor, or just leaving the distributor and living with it.

I could, or I could just get a 9a oil pump. I dont want to screw around with the oil system on the motor that costs more than my car. Just not worth the 80$ or whatever a new oil pump it


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

i1m not to familar with vendors were can i get the c2 at and whats the deal on the install and what kind of money you talking about for this mama-jamma


----------



## RedGTI2.0l (Feb 18, 2004)

has anyone actually completed this swap who can post pics of the process like the other swaps...


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

http://www.c2motorsports.net/index.asp


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

So I have started on the dis-assembly of my 94 ABA motor. I pulled the oil pan off 2 nights ago and had a b!tch of a time trying to get the actual pan off. Turn out that there was a windage tray in there, and it is bolted up to the oil pump. So if you are pulling your pan, separate the pan from the gasket, not the gasket from the block.
Ok, so next I put the engine on a engine stand. I removed the intake manifold from the head, no problems here.
Then I took off the valve cover, and some sorta plastic splash shield.
Since I am going to need to change the intermediate shaft, I figured it would be easiest to loosen the pulley while the timing belt was on. In order to get to the intermediate shaft, I needed to take the lower timing belt cover off. In order to take the timing belt cover off, I had to pull the crankshaft pulley. Now that the crankshaft pulley is off, I the timing belt is off too and I can't use that to resist the intermadiate shaft so I can take the pulley off. Then I look at the int shaft and notice that I can access it without removing the pulley.
Ok, So now I pull the head off. Easy!
I go to test fit the 16v head on the ABA block, and the guide pin is too big. So I pull/push the pin out of the ABA block, and put a pin in from my 9A block.
So that is where I am. In need of a 9A oil pump and all the gaskets and headbolts, but I'm very happy. The crosshatching on the cylinder walls looks mint. 
Kevin
pictures coming later!


----------



## azninferno (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

nice, would love to see some pics.. id already began to rip apart my aba, but i need to remove the 16v head from my scirocco. keep it comin.


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

c2 only has 12v vr6 eproms and what not they dont have anything posted on the site for a 2.o


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

Their site is a little behind, contact Chris or Jeff, you may need to schedule some one off tuning though depending on your needs.


_Modified by all-starr-me at 6:55 AM 12-31-2005_


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

sweet thanks, what system does the odbII aba use motronic?? is the a way to by pass the second o2 sensor and just run the one with no cat.??


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (azninferno)*


_Quote, originally posted by *azninferno* »_nice, would love to see some pics.. id already began to rip apart my aba, but i need to remove the 16v head from my scirocco. keep it comin.

With no further waiting, here they are!
So last night I pulled the head and oil pan and put it on the engine stand. Today I pressure washed the block and painted it with black engine enamel. I also cleaned up the pistons with a wire brush, It was a tedious task, but the results are nice. I also put in the 16v intermediate shaft and pump gear and block off plate. Very easy job, there is 1 o-ring and 2 13 mm nuts holding the shaft on there.
While I had them both out, I took some comparison pictures so you know whats up. There is a pic of the ABA oil pump below, and you can see how it is driven by the peice on the end. The 16v oil pump is driven by splines on that shaft..
Here are the pics of everything.
Here is the block after pressure washing








Here is the bottom end, cruddy pic I know..








Here is the block painted..








Here are my pretty pistons, ohh so happy!








Here are the intermediate shafts..








Close ups..








And lastly the ABA oil pump..








Lastly, a pic for views, the assembled upper half of my motor..








Hope that helps, and more information in a bit. Now I need head gasket and block gaskets before I can continue, and I am F'in broke!
Later,
Kevin


_Modified by xpalendocious at 9:09 AM 12-3-2004_


----------



## azninferno (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

nice pics, keep em comin.. i wont be able to start assmebly for a bit, still in school and no more money








also, what the crap kinda manifold is that?? homemade?


----------



## ahheadlock (Oct 7, 2004)

if you are using the ABA pistons, is it necessary to run a decomp head gasket? i think someone was saying that with the new head and the aba pistons it lowers the compression - but to be honest this thread mainly just gave me a headache








and which gasket do you use, the aba or the 16v? and dont you need to block a couple of oil drain holes or something.


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (ahheadlock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ahheadlock* »_if you are using the ABA pistons, is it necessary to run a decomp head gasket? i think someone was saying that with the new head and the aba pistons it lowers the compression - but to be honest this thread mainly just gave me a headache








and which gasket do you use, the aba or the 16v? and dont you need to block a couple of oil drain holes or something.

When you say decomp, I assume you mean a thicker head gasket that will lower the compression? If that is what you mean, then no, you just use the stock ABA headgasket.
What are your plans? Naturally aspirated or turbo?
Basically, for n/a you want high compression ratio, such as 10:1, by using 9a pistons.
For turbo, you want low compression such as 8.5:1. Look in my pictures above, you see how the pistons are dished? Those are stock ABA pistons in an ABA block. I am going 16vT so I want the lower compression of dished pistons.
HTH,
Kevin


----------



## ahheadlock (Oct 7, 2004)

thanks for that. I am also wanting to go Turbo, so the ABA pistons would be the go. How much boost can you safely run with that setup?


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (ahheadlock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ahheadlock* »_thanks for that. I am also wanting to go Turbo, so the ABA pistons would be the go. How much boost can you safely run with that setup?

With the aba pistons/rods/crank and a 16v head, you should be able to run 15psi at least. You will need to go with stand alone fuel injection and stuff, but the mechanicals should be good for at least 250whp.


----------



## ahheadlock (Oct 7, 2004)

nice nice, thats what i was after.
the pistons don't have to be modified in any way? 
and i'm a little confused about the distributor, what goes on with that?


----------



## azninferno (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

im goin digi 1 chipped with ugraded injectors. As for boost, safely i think you can run 12 lbs. Ill be running in the neighborhood of 15-17 psi.


----------



## ahheadlock (Oct 7, 2004)

the fuelling will definitely be changed. 
Injectors, standalone management and an upgraded fuel pump 
310cc should be ok for the injectors if you run the 16v head yes?, what type injectors do you guys recommend... ?


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

any one know what kind of numbers a all motor 16v aba with nice compression would put down


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

could you get an 8v cam gear machined out to fit on the 16v cam and use that then there would be no need to change any of the other pullies ?????


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_could you get an 8v cam gear machined out to fit on the 16v cam and use that then there would be no need to change any of the other pullies ????? 

Do you think that VW went through all that extra expense and work of putting on a wider timing belt for no reason? With a 16v head, you have twice as much load on the t-belt. Also, you are now working with an interence motor, as in the valves will hit the pistons if the t-belt breaks. I wouldn't use the skinny timing belt. I imagine that since you are building a 16vT you plan to rev it to 7k and you plan to run it hard. Just spend the 200$ and put the neccesary timing belt on there.
Kevin


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

this is going to be my final set-up tell me if im missing and thing or if i1m wrong on any thing. 
16v head any that i can find cheap)
aba head gasket
9a shaft, pump and gear
1.8t or honda prelude timing belt
switch hall sensor in distributors(Q: do the 16v dis. lock in like the aba)
*mick mouse some thing for the acessorie pully *"????"
short runner intake 
hand made fule rail with adjustable regulator
g60 injestors 
runing on chiped stock ecu

so>>> will it work


----------



## ahheadlock (Oct 7, 2004)

Is it necessary to use a new fuel rail, is it not OK to just use the 16v one?


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (ahheadlock)*

there is no fuel rail on our 16v's in the US, just mechanical injection from the airbox. so yes it is neccesary, but if you are talking about using an ABF fuel rail/intake head, that we didn't get in the US, then yes it can work.


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_this is going to be my final set-up tell me if im missing and thing or if i1m wrong on any thing. 
16v head any that i can find cheap)
aba head gasket
9a shaft, pump and gear
1.8t or honda prelude timing belt
switch hall sensor in distributors(Q: do the 16v dis. lock in like the aba)
*mick mouse some thing for the acessorie pully *"????"
short runner intake 
hand made fule rail with adjustable regulator
g60 injestors 
runing on chiped stock ecu

so>>> will it work

There is no turbo mentioned?








Is this a NA set up or FI?
Kevin


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

turbo >>>>eclipse turbo t25


----------



## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

You also want an intercooler then


----------



## ahheadlock (Oct 7, 2004)

btw: what do you mean by this? mick mouse some thing for the acessorie pully "????"


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (ahheadlock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ahheadlock* »_btw: what do you mean by this? mick mouse some thing for the acessorie pully "????"

well going to need to find a machine shop then can take the 6 mm of the pully so it will line up with my acessories on my MKIII thats my only option right??
on a 16v head can you move the distributor to adjust timing, because you cant on an aba so how does that work with the ecu???


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

Why dont you want to leave the dizzy on the head?


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

i dont mind so much i1m afraid it wont work with the ecu...... i thought the 16v dizzy alowed for a timing adjustment which isn't allowed on the aba so i1m not sure it will work


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_i dont mind so much i1m afraid it wont work with the ecu...... i thought the 16v dizzy alowed for a timing adjustment which isn't allowed on the aba so i1m not sure it will work


I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you just said. Use periods, comma's and Capitalization where appropriate.
Kevin


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

alright, on a 16v the distributor can be twisted to abjust timing. on a aba the distributor can not be moved to adjust timing , that is taken care of by the ecu. so my question was will the two diffrent types of systems mix.?? i was thinking that when you adjusted the distributor that whould screw up the hall reading coming off the distributor.


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

Ok, now I know what you mean. I beleive the ABA dizzy can be twisted to adjust timing. And both the 16v and the ABA dizzy's are electronicaly advanced.
Kevin


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## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xpalendocious* »_ I beleive the ABA dizzy can be twisted to adjust timing. Kevin 

You are correct, Kevin. The 16v dizzy can be adjusted for timing, however the ABA ECU won't control the 16v diz, from what I understand. I could be totally wrong on this, though.. wouldn't be the first time!


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

i know that you have to swap the 16v's 4 window hall out for the aba's single window i was just wondering if that was all that had to be done


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

I'm pretty sure thats all that it needs to read the same, make sure you look at how to line it up correctly for when you time it.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

I have been reading this post and it has done nothing but make me want a 16V swap really badly. I have a 1999 MkIII Jetta 2.0 8V Turbo ABA. From what i see most of the people doing this swap arent obd2 and i need to know can it be done on an obd2 so that it will still pass emissions. I would love to do the swap but i still need the car to be legal. 
I also need to some things clarified. Can i use all stock internals (ie pistons, rods, and crank) and not blow up my engine. I would assume when i use the 16V head ot of a passat 2.0 16V it drops the compression to around 8.5:1 which is ideal for forced induction. And as far as fueling goes what size injectors with what fuel rail and FPR for around 10-12psi boost application (t3 super 60 garrett). I would appreciate any help possible.


_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 12:51 AM 12-22-2004_


----------



## XlockjawX (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

what about using a odbII block? I've got a 98 gti that I'm thinking about doing a turbo hybrid on just want to know if there would be any problems useing the odbII block.


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## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (XlockjawX)*

what are peeps doing about the coolant flange on the front of the head??? it contacts the ABA non-AC waterpump/alt bracket.


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## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (MA_XXX)*

My friend gave me an ABA block, and I have a 1.8L 16V motor that threw a rod. The head and all the accessories are okay, but there is a hole in the block, and piston/cylidner 3 are screwed... I want to run a turbo eventually, but I want to get my car back on the road... Can I just stick my 16V head on the aba block and run low compression for a while? What kind of sacrifices will I face by running the low compression? I'm definatly goign to do a turbo, so 9a pistons are out of the question... I want the ability to be there, but I can't afford the turbo system right now... I just want to get my car on the road... Any suggestions?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## XlockjawX (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: (azninferno)*

also are we talking about the 1.8T head or the older N/A head?
Thanks!


----------



## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DieselT0rque)*

no comment on my last post?


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DieselT0rque)*

From what I've gathered, you need a 9A inter. shaft, oil pump, dist. block off plate, timing belt pullies, figure out which belt set up you want to use, ABA head gasket, some thing to block off the crank sensor hole, and I think that's it. I am supposing that there is a differance between the 1.8 int. shaft and the 2.0 one, but not certain. I'm currently up against the same thing you are. Good luck.


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## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hasnfefr)*

I have a complete 1.8L 16V engine... I havent tore the damn thing apart yet, I hope the oil pump and inter shaft werent dammaged when it threw a rod... We'll see though.... I just want to know if 8:1 is enough compression to run the engine in NA form.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_I have been reading this post and it has done nothing but make me want a 16V swap really badly. I have a 1999 MkIII Jetta 2.0 8V Turbo ABA. From what i see most of the people doing this swap arent obd2 and i need to know can it be done on an obd2 so that it will still pass emissions. I would love to do the swap but i still need the car to be legal. 
I also need to some things clarified. Can i use all stock internals (ie pistons, rods, and crank) and not blow up my engine. I would assume when i use the 16V head ot of a passat 2.0 16V it drops the compression to around 8.5:1 which is ideal for forced induction. And as far as fueling goes what size injectors with what fuel rail and FPR for around 10-12psi boost application (t3 super 60 garrett). I would appreciate any help possible.

_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 12:51 AM 12-22-2004_

You can do it and have it still be emisions legal, but that said going turbo you will probably have to remove the secondary air injection, or make a port for it on the exhaust manifold. Early OBD 2 cars came without secondary air injection up until mid 97 or so. Get the computor from one of these and you can eliminate the air pump. 
The compression with your ABA pistons should be 8.1:1, and any 16v head will work from any golf, jetta, scirrocco and passat. The T3 will be a little small so you may want higher boost on such low compression, it will give some nice lowend but may run out near the top. As for injectors go with some 42#, a BBM or ross fuel rail and a 3, 3.5 or 4 bar FPR depending on what you get your chip or management set for and what your HP goals are.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (XlockjawX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XlockjawX* »_what about using a odbII block? I've got a 98 gti that I'm thinking about doing a turbo hybrid on just want to know if there would be any problems useing the odbII block.

You can use an OBD 2 block succesfully, its the same for the most part, but you are going to need to remove it from the car to do some of the work on it, so either expect some major downtime or buy another block to build up until its ready to go in. also the obd 2 block may limit your power goals as I'm not sure how much the cast crank will handle, 300, 350 whp maybe?


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (MA_XXX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MA_XXX* »_what are peeps doing about the coolant flange on the front of the head??? it contacts the ABA non-AC waterpump/alt bracket.


It comes pretty close, I have seen people with the plastic flange squeeze a hose in there, Otherwise I have a metal one I will turn the other direction and shorten some to fit the hose on.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DieselT0rque)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieselT0rque* »_My friend gave me an ABA block, and I have a 1.8L 16V motor that threw a rod. The head and all the accessories are okay, but there is a hole in the block, and piston/cylidner 3 are screwed... I want to run a turbo eventually, but I want to get my car back on the road... Can I just stick my 16V head on the aba block and run low compression for a while? What kind of sacrifices will I face by running the low compression? I'm definatly goign to do a turbo, so 9a pistons are out of the question... I want the ability to be there, but I can't afford the turbo system right now... I just want to get my car on the road... Any suggestions?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I hear you on that, I am going to fit mine and run it 500-1000 miles to break in the new rings before I turbo it, just to make sure they seat right. I figure the 9A pistons should give between an 8.5 and an 8.9:1 compression ratio, which should be fine for either N/A or turbo, many older 8v blocks ran an 8-8.5:1 before knock sensors and such. It will lower your off the line response and such but will still remain drivable. When I do add the turbo I plan to deck the block so I have a nice 9:1 compresion ratio, assuming I don't already at that point. Killa ran 35+ psi on his with 9A pistons from a GT35R, and the 20v blocks all run a 9.3-9.5:1. I see no reason to ever go under 8.5:1 with good tuning, its just not needed. put the money on the tuning first then the turbo, as tuning will always be the weakest point.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (XlockjawX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XlockjawX* »_also are we talking about the 1.8T head or the older N/A head?
Thanks!

we are talking the older N/A head, but much of this can apply to the 1.8t as well, it is similar, but see the thread in the G-60 forum for more on the 1.8t.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DieselT0rque)*

It should be, but you will probably need the oil pump and IM. shaft from a 9A to make it work, I should have some extras in a few weeks if anyone wants them, I'll let you know when I get them.


----------



## XlockjawX (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

awesome, thanks! 300-400 whp is a little much for me (never thought I would say that!) I'm looking more for around 200 whp, I don't really have a need for more then that sence I'm planing on this being my daly.


----------



## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

I hear the aba block and pistons with the 16V head make 8.0:1 so I think I am going to try that... I guess this weekend I'll start taking the stuff off my 1.8 block and see if I am going to need a new pump/inter shaft due to the engine being blown... Low low low compression will be bad for performance on NA, I know, but I still have a diesel mentality... If you don't have enough compression it is VERY hard to start the engine in the cold, but I guess I never thought about the fact that they ran 8:1 before knock sensors were used... Thanks for all the information and responses... I am pretty sure what I need to do now. If anybody has a dififant fuel rail for the 16V, I am going to need one
Thanks peeps! Frohe weihnachten jeder!










_Modified by DieselT0rque at 4:19 PM 12-24-2004_


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Thanks for the info man. I have the t3 now because if i used anything larger on a 2.0 slow 8v with stock internals and compression ratio of like 10.5:1 it would quite easily spell the end of my car. I would want to eventually go with something like a GT28RS or the larger 30 (my dream turbos).
As for the secondary air injection that is where air is introduced into the exhaust via a pump that bolts up right in front of the intake manifold. My car didnt come equipped with any such horse **** so i am fine as far as that goes.
Also will i be able to use the distributor in my aba, alternator, water pump, oil pump, crank pulley, all the pulleys or is it impossible. Is it easier to use the list of items on page one or absolutely necessary? And call me stupid but what in the hell is an imtermediate shaft?


_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 11:35 PM 12-24-2004_


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## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*

An Intermediate shaft is the shaft that is spun by the timing belt, and is used to turn the oil pump. On 8Vs, such as the ABA it is also used to spin the dizzy.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (MA_XXX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MA_XXX* »_what are peeps doing about the coolant flange on the front of the head??? it contacts the ABA non-AC waterpump/alt bracket.


I had mine cut and basically welded to come straight out instead of being at an angel


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hasnfefr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hasnfefr* »_From what I've gathered, you need a 9A inter. shaft, oil pump, dist. block off plate, timing belt pullies, figure out which belt set up you want to use, ABA head gasket, some thing to block off the crank sensor hole, and I think that's it. I am supposing that there is a differance between the 1.8 int. shaft and the 2.0 one, but not certain. I'm currently up against the same thing you are. Good luck.

The 9a int shaft is thinner than the 1.8 16v int shaft. The 1.8 16v int shaft will interfere with the 2.0 crankshaft.


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## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (xpalendocious)*

damn it!!!! that's it. I'm gonna get a 2.0L 16V shortblock.... unless somebody wants to part with their 2.0 im shaft.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_Thanks for the info man. I have the t3 now because if i used anything larger on a 2.0 slow 8v with stock internals and compression ratio of like 10.5:1 it would quite easily spell the end of my car. I would want to eventually go with something like a GT28RS or the larger 30 (my dream turbos).
As for the secondary air injection that is where air is introduced into the exhaust via a pump that bolts up right in front of the intake manifold. My car didnt come equipped with any such horse **** so i am fine as far as that goes.
Also will i be able to use the distributor in my aba, alternator, water pump, oil pump, crank pulley, all the pulleys or is it impossible. Is it easier to use the list of items on page one or absolutely necessary? And call me stupid but what in the hell is an imtermediate shaft?
_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 11:35 PM 12-24-2004_

Yeah the T3 is about perfect for the 8v, it will work with the 16v but you might want to look into a basic T3/T04E at some point as a nice upgrade. No Secondary air, nice, I thought they all had it after 97 but I guess some didn't. 
You can use all your existing accesories but you will have to shave the sepentine pulley 6mm to make it line up again as the 16v timing gear is 6mm wider. Futrells will do this for you if you need one made. The intermediate shaft drives the distributor, but you can use the one on the 16v head if you change the hall sendor over to a single window. You can also use the one on the block if you use a 16v cam gear on the 16v intermediate shaft, rather than the 16v intermediate gear. this means you will need an extra cam gear, maybe a great time to add an adjustable one.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DieselT0rque)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieselT0rque* »_damn it!!!! that's it. I'm gonna get a 2.0L 16V shortblock.... unless somebody wants to part with their 2.0 im shaft.

I'm pretty sure the 1.8 and 2.0 16v's also use different drive gears on the oil pump, but I'm not sure they could have the same spline, you'll really have to open it up to see.


----------



## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

Well.... this all sounds like more work than it's worth. Heres the qeustion. What would the real difference be between the aba block and the 9a block? it's all 2.0L right? It depends on the internals you use, but what is the real main reason for using an aba vs a 9a? Is that because of the availibility of the 9a? I'm thinking about just sourcing a 9a bottom end.


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DieselT0rque)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieselT0rque* »_Well.... this all sounds like more work than it's worth. Heres the qeustion. What would the real difference be between the aba block and the 9a block? it's all 2.0L right? It depends on the internals you use, but what is the real main reason for using an aba vs a 9a? Is that because of the availibility of the 9a? I'm thinking about just sourcing a 9a bottom end.

Yup, it is all about availability. Unless you are going turbo, it IS more hassle than it is worth.
I have a 9a block for cheap if you want...


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## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (xpalendocious)*

IM sent.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DieselT0rque)*

The real difference is the longer rods which give smoother torque and more power with boost, and the crank trigger wheel which is important for keeping the motronic management in the mk3 cars. I can get you a 9A short block for $100+ shipping if you want to go that route though, or trade you for your ABA block if its an early one.


_Modified by all-starr-me at 4:49 AM 12-28-2004_


----------



## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

It's OBD II unfortunatly... IM sent about the block


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## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

So for the intermediate shaft all i have to do to use the one in my aba block is slap a 16v cam gear on it or do i have to use the 16v intermediate shaft and change the hall sendor over to a single window? Another stupid question, 16v timing belt or 8v timing belt?
Also are there any sensors that you know of on the 8v head that i might need on the 16v head, again i have to make the sensitive obd2 comp happy. So really other than shaving the serpentine pulley 6mm, adapting the intermediate shaft, rigging up a fuel rail and some spark plug wires, maybe bootlegging a couple sensors what else is there to do to make my car safer and faster? If it is as easy as this why doesn't every whiny person who owns a 2.slow convert!!


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_So for the intermediate shaft all i have to do to use the one in my aba block is slap a 16v cam gear on it or do i have to use the 16v intermediate shaft and change the hall sendor over to a single window? Another stupid question, 16v timing belt or 8v timing belt?
Also are there any sensors that you know of on the 8v head that i might need on the 16v head, again i have to make the sensitive obd2 comp happy. So really other than shaving the serpentine pulley 6mm, adapting the intermediate shaft, rigging up a fuel rail and some spark plug wires, maybe bootlegging a couple sensors what else is there to do to make my car safer and faster? If it is as easy as this why doesn't every whiny person who owns a 2.slow convert!! 
















The intermediate shaft from the ABA can be used but you will have to either: (1) mod the end of it grinding a deeper slot into it, and trimming it up some or (2) cutting the center estion out of the ABA intermediate gear and welding in onto the 16v cam gear. The intermediate shaft from a 2.0 16v (9A) slides right in and bolts to the 16v cam gear with no modifications. 
The hall sendor needs changed if you are using the one on the 16v head, but if you are keeping it on the block it should be fine, which you are because using the cam gear on the intermediate shaft is for using the block dizzy. Well the 16v belt as its 6mm wider, and changing over the crank gear and intermediate gear to use a thinner timing belt would be worthless. but not a stock 16v belt, it needs to be an ABF belt like techtonics tuning has, a longer 1.8t belt can work, but in your case using the second cam gear on the im shaft means a few extra teeth, I would get the honda 2.2L prelude belt with 155 teeth. 
You will need all the sensors off the head and a way to fit the coolant sensor on one side in the flange, like the ABA head has. Also the front coolant inlet on the 16v head may need to be modified to clear the alternator bracket. You will have to tap the 16v intake manifold for the intake air temperature sensor.
As for why most people don't do this, it lowers the compression, especially on stock ABA pistons, so you will gain little after all this work unless you are putting in new higher compression pistons or going turbo, and most 2L people who put the work into their motor just go straight turbo, its a lot of parts to collect and a lot of figuring out to do to make it work. Its not a quick bolt on and available in staged kits, and the info on it isn't that well known. Most people just want a chip and exhaust to go fast, this is more indepth but the end process can be worth it if you do it right.


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## DieselT0rque (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_
The intermediate shaft from the ABA can be used but you will have to either: (1) mod the end of it grinding a deeper slot into it, and trimming it up some or (2) cutting the center estion out of the ABA intermediate gear and welding in onto the 16v cam gear. The intermediate shaft from a 2.0 16v (9A) slides right in and bolts to the 16v cam gear with no modifications. 
The hall sendor needs changed if you are using the one on the 16v head, but if you are keeping it on the block it should be fine, which you are because using the cam gear on the intermediate shaft is for using the block dizzy. Well the 16v belt as its 6mm wider, and changing over the crank gear and intermediate gear to use a thinner timing belt would be worthless. but not a stock 16v belt, it needs to be an ABF belt like techtonics tuning has, a longer 1.8t belt can work, but in your case using the second cam gear on the im shaft means a few extra teeth, I would get the honda 2.2L prelude belt with 155 teeth. 
You will need all the sensors off the head and a way to fit the coolant sensor on one side in the flange, like the ABA head has. Also the front coolant inlet on the 16v head may need to be modified to clear the alternator bracket. You will have to tap the 16v intake manifold for the intake air temperature sensor.
As for why most people don't do this, it lowers the compression, especially on stock ABA pistons, so you will gain little after all this work unless you are putting in new higher compression pistons or going turbo, and most 2L people who put the work into their motor just go straight turbo, its a lot of parts to collect and a lot of figuring out to do to make it work. Its not a quick bolt on and available in staged kits, and the info on it isn't that well known. Most people just want a chip and exhaust to go fast, this is more indepth but the end process can be worth it if you do it right.

Amen.


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## rabidroco (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_
As for why most people don't do this, it lowers the compression, especially on stock ABA pistons, so you will gain little after all this work unless you are putting in new higher compression pistons or going turbo, and most 2L people who put the work into their motor just go straight turbo, its a lot of parts to collect and a lot of figuring out to do to make it work. Its not a quick bolt on and available in staged kits, and the info on it isn't that well known. Most people just want a chip and exhaust to go fast, this is more indepth but the end process can be worth it if you do it right.

i thought another reason was the obdI ABA has forged internals, making it better suited for boost.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (rabidroco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabidroco* »_
i thought another reason was the obdI ABA has forged internals, making it better suited for boost.









The OBD 1 motor has a forged crank and oil squiters which does make it better for boost but mainly its because, the ABA block has longer rods making for a smoother torquier power, it has a crank reference wheel, which makes running stock motronic and some aftermarket managments easier, and ABA blocks are cheap, reliable and plentiful.


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## quickshifter (Oct 8, 2004)

Hey guys I am currently building an ABA16vt and I didn't see it any where but what about a bigger better stronger tranny. The list I kinda have to follow is: tranny, shifter, pedals, flywheel, clutch, cables, master and slave cylinder front and side tranny mounts, speedo cable and starter. But what car can or do i need to get this all from. Sorry if this is a repeat but couldn't find it. Thanks


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (quickshifter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quickshifter* »_Hey guys I am currently building an ABA16vt and I didn't see it any where but what about a bigger better stronger tranny. The list I kinda have to follow is: tranny, shifter, pedals, flywheel, clutch, cables, master and slave cylinder front and side tranny mounts, speedo cable and starter. But what car can or do i need to get this all from. Sorry if this is a repeat but couldn't find it. Thanks

Good question, many people in the A1 platform keep the 020 due to how hard fitting a cable shift tranny can be into a rabbit or scirroco. But if you are doing this swap into an A2 or A3 there are many good sources of 02A's for cheap. The corrado and 16v B3 passats come with all the parts you need for an A2 transmission unless you are doing a ABS to non ABS swap where you will need a different clutch cylinder bracket on the brake booster. futrells has them, but they are like $58, 
also I would upgrde the brakes all around and the brake cylinder to at least a 22mm unit. 
Other transmissions that are good and will hold more power are the 02A from an A3 TDI, or the 02J from a mk4 with a 2.0, TDI, or 1.8T. These will need more mods to fit in an older chassis but can be done. you will need the rear transmision mount from an 02A, smaller CV flanges if the 02J is a later one and has the 110mm ones and an 02a shift box and mechanism off the top of it, or the 02J shift box trimmed down to fit into the place for one.
You can always use the 020 box but with most of these I would keep a spare one handy and baby it a bit, unless you like replacing them.


_Modified by all-starr-me at 7:06 AM 12-31-2005_


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

how about the 16v 020 2y trans?


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (xpalendocious)*

it'll work just fine, but without a shim kit and a quaife or peloquin differential don't expect the 020 to survive 250+ whp for very long. Get a spare or 2.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

I have read this particular topic a couple of times now, and spent hours searching around (thanks google) for more information. Basically, I have acquired an OBD1 ABA block for free, to swap into my scirocco by mating my current 1.8 16v head to it. From what I have gathered I can, with a bit of work, accomplish this by using my 1.8 16v intermediate shaft (and the new oil pump i recently installed) and only have to source either a 9a distributer plug, or use a techtonics bushing in conjuction with my 1.8 distributer plug to get everything squared away. Oh, and pick up some new pistons at Eurospec. Speaking of which, would I pickup the set marked for the 236mm block, or one for the 220mm block? I would assume ones marked for the 236mm block with a claimed compression ratio of 10:1 is a dished piston, meant for the 8v motor and would not actually give 10:1 with this swap. Am I wrong and these are actually the euro ABF pistons? Someone pointed out as well that these were the pistons I need:
http://www.eurospecsport.com/db/details.php?id=43
Now, I would like to go up to an 83.5mm bore, but the only cast 83.5mm bore pistons I can find on the site are for 144mm connecting rods, not 159. Does that matter?
Now, I am all down for trying this out, but would it be easier to just transfer the crank into my 1.8 block? I cannot find any literature on that particular swap online, does anyone have any experience or suggestions? Thanks.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

you need pistons for the 236mm block and 159mm rod. Eirospec has the correct 16V pistons (ABF) that are basically flat. Use these for N/A.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

The eurospec sport pistons are the ABF ones, that give a 10:1 CR with a 16 valve head. Why are you boring to 83.5mm? To gain a whole 1/3rd of .1 liters. To gain the correct parts to do the ABA you will need the IM shaft, oil pump and block off plate from a 9A, so why not save yourself the time and money and put a 9A in there and be done with it.


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Why not bore it and gain the extra displacement? If I have to get new pistons anyways, the cost difference is negligable enough for gaining an extra couple ft/lbs of torque. The reason I do not want to go to a 9a block is simple: the ABA was free, finding a 9a isn't. To find a 9a block, I am guaranteed to spend $200 minimum, and I still have to tank and magnaflux it, get new bearings etc. Also, I can use the intermediate shaft from my 1.8 16v, I just have to turn it on a lathe and shave off a little room. This allows me to use the (nearly) brand new oil pump I put in my block. Also, I like the concept of longer connecting rods giving smoother operation, because my 1.8 16v is buzzy as all hell. The oil squirters under the pistons as well as the forged crank make steering away from the ABA difficult. Last but not least, with Megasquirt, I think I can safely run a 12:1 compression ratio on the street. Now, if I could find a 9a block for $100 I would forgo the high compression engine for now and just get this thing built and driving around, find out if I like it and potentially build the high compression motor later.
Am I off basis? I guess it's all a matter of opinion, and the idea of all the work required to swap in an ABA kinda excites me instead of putting me off. Well, everything except the cost!
Regards,
Cullen


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

Does anyone know what kind of power an ABA bottom end can handle stock? Everyone I talk to agrees that the 9A rods can stand 350ish.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

I can usually get 9A blocks for $85-100 from my local junkyard, I usually strip them down for the parts, people love throwing away their 16v passats. 
Anyway for an 83.5mm bore you are going to need custom forged pistons, especially if you want higher than a 10:1 CR. Contact Jose at porttuning for good prices, or maybe rich at EIP, also Bildon has them in 83.5mm in 13:1. 
If your gonna spend the money on boring you might as well get a TDI crank, its 95.5mm stroke with an 83.5mm bore wil give you an 2096cc or 2.1L, A 10-15 hp gain should be seen, beats 1/3rd of that for the money. 
If your going all out porttuning is having a 99mm crank made, with a larger bore of 84.5mm you can get a 2.2L, but with that big of a crank I can't see it lasting past 25K miles without needing a rebuild. 
I would go with a 2.1 and use the money for porting the head, rebuilding it, getting HD springs and lightweight lifters, large cams. after that look into getting some ITB's for more.


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## VW Acolyte (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

i didnt read the whole thread, well(insert sig), but if someone were to do this would the ignition still be obd 1 or would it have to be digi or cis??
it sounds like a fun project to do.


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (HAVOK GT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HAVOK GT* »_i didnt read the whole thread, well(insert sig), but if someone were to do this would the ignition still be obd 1 or would it have to be digi or cis??
it sounds like a fun project to do. 

I believe it has to be digi. Everyone seams to want to use the Corrado injection, as SNS can burn a chip for your specific needs. Then you need to put different injector isolators in.


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## VW Acolyte (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

EvilVento2.0T has a thread about doing this. he said you can put the head on the aba and run obd2 if you want. he said it is a bit stronge.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1765675


_Modified by HAVOK GT at 12:42 AM 1-9-2005_


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (HAVOK GT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HAVOK GT* »_i didnt read the whole thread, well(insert sig), but if someone were to do this would the ignition still be obd 1 or would it have to be digi or cis??
it sounds like a fun project to do. 

It can, has, and will be done on motroronic 2.9 and 5.9 (obd 1 + 2). The problem is most of us need dyno time to get the setup dialed in or a piggyback like SMT-6. Some people are content to deal with TT or EIP's bad chips and an FMU, I am waiting for C2's 2L chip for the best drivability. Then OBD 1 will be replacing Digi. 
Digi is easy to use but things like sequential injection rather than batch fire, code scanning, better drivability and milage, make motronic the best choice. 
Cis Is crap, without somekind of standalone to take car of the injection side at the very least it is unworkable. Digi 2 seems like it would work well but I haven't seen anyone other than TT make chips for it, I wonder how well it would do under boost.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (HAVOK GT)*

up


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## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

What about swapping the forged OBD1 crank from the ABA block into my 1.8 16v block? This would eliminate the need for the expensive timing belt and exhaust modifications. For a cheap swap, could I use the pistons in the 1.8, or do they have different sized wrist pins? And from what I understand, the 1.8 liter block can be bored out just as much as the 2.0 block. Anyone have experience with this kind of swap? Sounds a bit cheaper than doing a complete ABA bottom end.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (kalvinlk)*

piston compression height is different because of the longer stroke and that does not get you the benefit of the ABA (longer rods). You would (if you bore to 82.5) have essentially a 9A.


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (vwpat)*

You also meed the larger in width timing belt for the 16v head.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

heres a few links, one with pics if you've gotten this far: http://www.takeit2thetrack.net....html
http://forum.vwsport.com/viewtopic.php?t=445


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## cprchris (Nov 4, 2002)

doing 16vt /aba do i need to machine valve relief pockets in my 9.6:1 je's(stock replacement forged)


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (cprchris)*

Are they flat tops or are they dished? A lot of people say you don't need it but if you plan to run too much advance under more than 15psi or your timing belt breaks there gone. If you have forged slugs I would go the extra step and notch them.


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## jettadrvr94 (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

I have no usefull input, but am considering going 16v and will watch this thread... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (jettadrvr94)*

up


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## wethvento (Jun 3, 2002)

whats the max power i could expect from aba16vT w/out notching the pistons?????


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (wethvento)*

what does notching them have to do with power? it depends on what turbo you are running, how much PSI you have, what your engine condition is, what cams you are running and how well it is tuned. 
I have heard that without notching if you run more than 15 psi with a lot of advance you will have contact though.


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

this may be a dumb queston, but what does the boost level have to do with the pistons contacting the valves? Changing the came timing makes sense. Rpm/redline and a little floating.... Do things "stretch" a little under sever load? Just guessing?


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

your valves will float under boost more, especially close to redline. ask killa though when it becomes a problem.


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## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Got ya http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I love this thread!


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## vwdriver92 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

does anyone know if the oil pan from a TDI will fit then the pan already has the hole for the oil flange? 
Can the ABA bottom end be left alone if you are using a standalone distro-less ignition?
also any info on a overbore say to 2.1


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (vwdriver92)*

A mk3 TDI pan might fit but a mk4 pan won't. Its not that hard to tap and weld a fitting in. if you can't do that you might want to stick with a straight swap like a 1.8T. You will still need to make the 16v intermediate shaft gear fit the 8v intermediate shaft or just swap the 16v 9A intermediate shaft in, you can't use the 8v timing gears as the 16v cam gear and timing belt is much wider, it has twice the number of lifters to supply oil too, you don't want it to fail on you, that belt is wider from the factory for a good reason. If you are going standalone you might as well put the 9A pistons in and get the 9:1 compression, you will enough control over the timing and fueling to make great power, lower compression is such an antiqued way to make power, especially when you have full standalone at your disposal. If you really need less than 9:1 due to the size of you turbo or the amount of boost you should look at forged pistons. if your not going to put the time and effort into building the engine well, why go standalone? To get a real 2.1L you are going to need a 95.5mm TDI crank and an overbore to 83.5mm to get a full 2096cc. There is a 99 mm crank from porttuning or a 100mm crank from Eurospec sports if you want a 2.2L. but if your going with a stroke that large I wouldn't expect it to last longer than 10K miles.


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## vwdriver92 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

kewl, I can tap and weld my own pan I have done it before but if their is factory stuff out their that works with out too much effort I rather use factory parts, I actually have 1.8t swap with a tec3, this summer I plan on really pushing it and if it goes, I would like to do a build up, I am undecided but I think I would get aftermarket forged rods and pistons and use the 9A of course because of the higher compression, My 1.8t is 9.3:1 now and runs 18psi on pump gas just fine
I just like the fact of using the aba for the longer stroke and I have seen some guys get alittle higher top end rpm
as far as the 16v head vs the 20v their are plenty of high hp #s with both but I see many more places that offer good worked 16v heads than 20v's
And my 1.8t I swapped just the motor not the subframe or anything so I am using the a2 subframe and rad setup and I already have A3 accesories on it the motor, the aba block would just be a bit nicer to use for the rad hoses since it doesnt have the quick connectors like the 1.8t which i had to retrofit to the a2 and Wouldnt have the coolant to the turbo that I had to run a bypass line for since my t3/t4 is non watercooled


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## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

ok my aba 16v project is underway,thanks for all the info so far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
right now I'm in the process of rebuilding my ob2 aba bottom end and trying to source all the other parts(may have a 1.8 donor motor tomorrow







Will the 1.8 crank gear work?As for the intermediat shaft.....I've been having some trouble trying to find one.Has anybody tried the dealer??online parts place??same goes for the oil pump know of a good place to get this NEW &cheap


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

The 1.8 crank, intermediate gear and head will work, the rest of the 1.8 won't.


_Modified by all-starr-me at 11:26 PM 2-24-2005_


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## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

thanks all-star-me 
I kinda figured that......now this is a kinda stupid question but I havent found a answer too yet is......what about timing marks for the t-belt







will I just set it up like I would a stock motor??Isnt the mark for #1 tdc on the 9a on the flywheel?will this be the same on my aba?if I recall there was one on both sides







on my aba.


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## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Been looking at DOHC intake manifolds at the junker, but only seen one, not too pretty. Seen a few turbos. Money is coming in nice, so I might finish this thing after all.


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## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*

yea I hear ya on the mani's mine looks like **** too but just going to bead blast and powder coat it


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## ILL_VW (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Im lookin to do this swap. this helps alot keep it goin


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

I did some searching and came up with a belt to use for a block mounted distributor: The 1.8T timing belt is made by gates, the 153 teeth one (the longer one of the two) is part number: 90153x20



_Modified by all-starr-me at 9:13 PM 1-1-2006_


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## biohazard2000 (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

O.K. I really beliveve that I am as confused as I could possiably be,







and I have read this entire forum. Im going to seem like a dunb a** and ask this question anyway. I have an 8v 2.0 95 jetta engin and I want to swap the head to a 16v head. I would REALLY appretiate it if someone would treat me like the retard I must be and give me a very blunt list of what would be needed to do this swap. after the swap is done I plan on doing upgrades supercharger intake etc please HELP !!!!! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!


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## MeanDub98 (Oct 28, 2004)

biohazard yeah I'm in the same boat. but what I am getting is you need a 2.0 16v intermediate shaft because the teeth are shaped different and the 1.8 is too big, 16v belts and pumps because 8v stuff is too small/weak, and early fuel and spark system from a Mk2. I have probably over simplified everything but that is how I understand it. My question is can I somehow use Motronic from a 1998 with a fuel rail that fits the 16v intake runners? Thanks to German_muscle for giving me DOHC fever.


_Modified by MeanDub98 at 8:34 PM 3-10-2005_


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## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (MeanDub98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeanDub98* »_ My question is can I somehow use Motronic from a 1998 with a fuel rail that fits the 16v intake runners? Thanks to German_muscle for giving me DOHC fever.


















$169 at Bahn Brenner http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## biohazard2000 (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

So for my 2.0 8v mkIII 16v head swap I would need:








G60 throttle body
16v intake manifold
ABa16v timing belt
16v idler what is a tensioner pulley ?
16v oil pump
16v oil pump drive
16v water pump
16v water pump pulley
16v crank pulley
16v alternator
16v alternator pulley
16v alternator belt
intermediate shaft what is this piece?
CIS fuel pump CIS?????
CIS fuel filter CIS ???
G60 fuel pump regulator
16v spark plugs
16v distributor
16v spark plug wires
TT distributor block off plate what is this ???
Since I am planning on putting a supercharger on would it be good to put in 9A pistons and ABA rods.
just beginning to understand how everything works under the hood so if there is anything here that is not needed or just dosent make since information on whatever it is would be greatly appretiated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

Or for the price of that rail you could just use a 50.00 setup from a 1.8t with some modding .


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (biohazard2000)*

You can use your mk3 accesories you already have rather than the 16v water pump, alternator, and idler/tensioner. The intermediate shaft is at the front of your block, just above the crank. You will see it once you get the covers off and start opening things up. it drives the oil pump. You don't need the TT blockoff plate unless this is going in an older car, you need the distributor blockoff plate from a 9A, as you will probably be using the distributor in the head. There are many ways to make this work. The G-60 throttle body must be from an automatic, or you can use an auto 16v passat one, but its harder to seal the oval inlet under boost. 
For meandub you are OBD 2. I would make an adapter plate or short runner manifold to use your OBD 2 throttle body, or even an OBD 2 VR6 throttle body. 


_Modified by all-starr-me at 1:45 AM 3-12-2005_


----------



## blurplegti (Jan 3, 2003)

*head gasket ?*

Do you use a 16v or aba head gasket?


----------



## vwbmx (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

bump for a good ass thread


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: head gasket ? (blurplegti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blurplegti* »_Do you use a 16v or aba head gasket?

They are the same.
I have many of the parts needed to do this swap for sale (click on the link in my sig.), including a refurbished head, 9A intermediate shaft, and a brand new Bosch distributor unit.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (biohazard2000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *biohazard2000* »_So for my 2.0 8v mkIII 16v head swap I would need:








G60 throttle body
16v intake manifold
ABa16v timing belt
16v idler what is a tensioner pulley ?
16v oil pump
16v oil pump drive
16v water pump
16v water pump pulley
16v crank pulley
16v alternator
16v alternator pulley
16v alternator belt
intermediate shaft what is this piece?
CIS fuel pump CIS?????
CIS fuel filter CIS ???
G60 fuel pump regulator
16v spark plugs
16v distributor
16v spark plug wires
TT distributor block off plate what is this ???
Since I am planning on putting a supercharger on would it be good to put in 9A pistons and ABA rods.
just beginning to understand how everything works under the hood so if there is anything here that is not needed or just dosent make since information on whatever it is would be greatly appretiated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Leaving the bottom end stock and putting on a 9A head will give you compression ratio of about 8:1. Might be best to just get forged pistons that will bring the compression ratio up to about 9-9.5:1.
On the ABA motor, the distributor is located on the block. On the 9A motor, the distributor is located on the head. The TT block-off plate covers the hole in the ABA block where the ABA distributor would have been.
I believe that you can use the stock fuel system and throttle body (might need to have an adaptor made though to fit it to the 9A intake manifold) from the ABA motor, as long as the ABA motor is OBD I. If it is OBD II then a few changes are required in order to use the stock fuel system.
The intermediate shaft (which I have for sale, check out my sig.) has 2 gears on it. On one end, the intermediate shaft is spun by the timing belt (?), and on the other end is a gear that meshes with the oil pump gear.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Throttle Body*

I know that an auto 16v passat throttle body has TPS on it. I was going to use the throttle body off of my 98 Jetta and just make some sort of adapter plate. Is it possible to plug the stock TPS harness from my throttle body into the one on the auto 16v passat? That would be much easier.
Also I am planning on at least trying to use Mototronic 5.9 and getting someone to flash me a chip. But the fuel rail in a 98 jetta is part electrically driven and part mecahnical and the fuel rails made for 16v's are made for digi which is a fully electrical fuel system. Any suggestions. I live in an emissions controlled county so digi and stand alone are out of the question at least until i move.


_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 12:53 PM 3-28-2005_


----------



## vwbmx (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Why is it necessary to run a g60 or auto 16v TB when doign an aba/16v swap into a Mk1 using digi1? Any info will be appreciated ThanskTim


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwbmx)*

Corrado DIGI or California Cabby Digi1?
Still, doesnt make sense to me why you'de have to.. What draws your question?
The Mk3 ABA uses a TPS. The 16v does not. So, to use the 16v intake, you need a throttlebody to have TPS availability.. If you are doing an ABA bottom end and 16v head in a stock Ca. Cabby with Digi1, then no.. you dont need it...


_Modified by qwikxr at 2:26 PM 3-29-2005_


----------



## vwbmx (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (qwikxr)*

I am running digi1 rado with a 16v 5spd tb or j/g 8v tb 5spd


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

If you are staying with DIGI1, then no, you can use what you have.. If you go standalone later, then you'll need the auto passat tb..


----------



## vwbmx (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

Thanks man I really appreciate all your help. I am going tobe running digi1 in my 87 caby with a 16v and then boosting later once all bugs are out Thasnks again
No stand alone here


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Throttle Body (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_Also I am planning on at least trying to use Mototronic 5.9 and getting someone to flash me a chip. But the fuel rail in a 98 jetta is part electrically driven and part mecahnical and the fuel rails made for 16v's are made for digi which is a fully electrical fuel system. Any suggestions. I live in an emissions controlled county so digi and stand alone are out of the question at least until i move.


The fuel rail is the same setup for the 16v's, just take your injector wiring off the 2.0 and plug it into the new fuel rail and injectors. It uses a little different FPR but it hooks up to the same fuel lines, its the same system.


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: Throttle Body (all-starr-me)*

Uhm.. what part of the fuel rail in the OBD2 Jetta is electronic??
Other than the injector harness?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: Throttle Body (qwikxr)*

This thread is just going in circles. If you are really serious about doing this setup, then I suggest you read the whole post. Most of the questions being asked now have been answered before on a different page of this thread.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Chip Tuning*

I have been trying to find someone to flash me a custom ship for my 16v head swap that i am doing but i havent found anyone that can do it. If anyone knows of anybody anywhere that can do chip tuning for Mototronic 5.9 and is preferably somewhere close to Atlanta, GA I would be very grateful.
Oh ya and dont even suggest standalone because its an obd2 car in an emissions controlled county.


_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 11:17 AM 4-4-2005_


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_
On the ABA motor, the distributor is located on the block. On the 9A motor, the distributor is located on the head. The TT block-off plate covers the hole in the ABA block where the ABA distributor would have been.


AFAIK unless your talking about a different part, you use the stock distributor blockoff from a 9a where the aba dist. was and use the TT block-off plate where the aba breather was(or use the one by someone here forgot his name w/ comes w/ a barbed fitting to use to vent the crank case )


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Chip Tuning (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_I have been trying to find someone to flash me a custom ship for my 16v head swap that i am doing but i havent found anyone that can do it. If anyone knows of anybody anywhere that can do chip tuning for Mototronic 5.9 and is preferably somewhere close to Atlanta, GA I would be very grateful.
Oh ya and dont even suggest standalone because its an obd2 car in an emissions controlled county.

_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 11:17 AM 4-4-2005_

I would contact C2 as jefnes has said he has a chip almost ready for obd2.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (SSj4G60)*

Peter tong makes ABA blockoff plates for your breather with or without a barbed fitting, you only need one if its going into something older than a mk3.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Chip Tuning (all-starr-me)*

They told me that they wouldnt be able to do anything with mototronic 5.9 at C2. i already called them up and hit another dead end.


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: Chip Tuning (mkiii2.0jetta)*

for a 5.9 chip try collin @ tt tuning,I spoke with him a while back he said no problem just email all your specs n such.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Chip Tuning (not SoQuick)*

there is alot of stuff to read in this thread but i have a few quick questions you guys can prabably answer for me without me having to put my flame suit on (at least grabs helmet)
right now i have a full xflow, 2.0T /w a k26/to4e 57trim .60/3 and its a little big for the 8v. instead of spending too much money to build up the 8v head (already got cam and springs+gear) i was going to do a 16v swap, possibly purchase one online already p&p...
now for the questions
which head would be best suited, 1.8 or 2.0? i have heard there are a compression difference between the two.
as for pistons, mine are still stock right now, i would asume they would need valve reliefs to stay stock. i will be going with a set of new forged pistons while i got the motor out, possibly rods too. but when ordering a set of pistons from say ross machining, i would need to specify that its an aba built for a 16v head in order to recieve the correct product. i.e. the 8v/16v pistons would be different?
other mics items. accessories can all be left the same, what timing belt needs to be ran? 
also what about my coolant lines, the xflow lines come off the side of the head, 16v's are different.


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

posted else were with no results so i'll try in here was wondering the pros and cons of a aba 16v vs. ana 16v g60 going into a 90 corrado and charger needs to be rebuilt thanks


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: Chip Tuning (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_there is alot of stuff to read in this thread but i have a few quick questions you guys can prabably answer for me without me having to put my flame suit on (at least grabs helmet)
right now i have a full xflow, 2.0T /w a k26/to4e 57trim .60/3 and its a little big for the 8v. instead of spending too much money to build up the 8v head (already got cam and springs+gear) i was going to do a 16v swap, possibly purchase one online already p&p...

I have a cleaned up 9a 16v head for sale (it hasn't been ported or polished, but it's been cleaned up, the valves have been reseated (and they are in good condition), the head has been decked, and the intake cam has been replaced with the euro cam (the intake cam from the ABF motor, I believe).

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_now for the questions
which head would be best suited, 1.8 or 2.0? i have heard there are a compression difference between the two.

I don't think there is a difference in the compression. Both have roughly the same volume in the head chamber. Either head on the ABA motor will yield a compression ratio of about 8-8.7:1. The only difference between the two heads other than the engine code is that the 1.8L head flows better on the intake side and the 2.0L head flows exhaust better. But, with a port and polish, the 2.0L will flow just as well on the intake side also.

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_as for pistons, mine are still stock right now, i would asume they would need valve reliefs to stay stock. i will be going with a set of new forged pistons while i got the motor out, possibly rods too. but when ordering a set of pistons from say ross machining, i would need to specify that its an aba built for a 16v head in order to recieve the correct product. i.e. the 8v/16v pistons would be different?

You'd probably have to give them all the measurements of the head or whatever. But remember, putting on a 16v head will already give you a lower compression.

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_other mics items. accessories can all be left the same, what timing belt needs to be ran?
also what about my coolant lines, the xflow lines come off the side of the head, 16v's are different.

Check the first post on the first page.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_posted else were with no results so i'll try in here was wondering the pros and cons of a aba 16v vs. ana 16v g60 going into a 90 corrado and charger needs to be rebuilt thanks 

Don't know much about the "ana 16v g60", but I do know a little bit about the ABA. With the stock pistons and 16v head, you already have a lower compression ratio, thus, you can run a turbo setup without going forged internals (with reasonable boost and tuning of course). Also, the ABA crank has a smaller center of rotation, which makes it more rev friendly.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

ok i dont see where it says how to keep your serp setup...
basically the timing belt on the 16v is 6mm wider, so the serp crank pulley will need to be milled down 6mm right? and then i'll need the 2.0 16v oil pump and intermediate shaft so that the timing sproket will be wide enough for the belt.
why do i need a 2.0 16v oil pump? i thought the pumps were the same, but the two (16v and 8v) were just driven differently? 16v by the int. shaft, 8v by the dist. in the block? 
i already have the block off plate, so dont i only need the int. shaft, and then there is some gear that sits in there


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (biohazard2000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *biohazard2000* »_So for my 2.0 8v mkIII 16v head swap I would need:








G60 throttle body NO
16v intake manifold
ABa16v timing belt
16v idler what is a tensioner pulley ?
16v oil pump
16v oil pump drive
16v water pump
16v water pump pulley NO
16v crank pulley
16v alternator NO
16v alternator pulley NO
16v alternator belt NO
intermediate shaft what is this piece?
CIS fuel pump CIS????? NO
CIS fuel filter CIS ??? NO
G60 fuel pump regulator NO
16v spark plugs NO
16v distributor NO
16v spark plug wires 
TT distributor block off plate 
Since I am planning on putting a supercharger on would it be good to put in 9A pistons and ABA rods.
just beginning to understand how everything works under the hood so if there is anything here that is not needed or just dosent make since information on whatever it is would be greatly appretiated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (speed51133!)*

ok so i'll need...
16v head...
my aba block
have my pully machined 6mm (serp crank pulley)
new arp studs ? mine are 8v
coolant hoses dunno what ones?
int. shaft
already have the block off plate
2.0 16v oil pump
and thats it to mate it onto the block?
with forged pistons, i can get the stock CR in forged and get 8:1 cr?
then i'll need a 16v turbo manifold, and a shorty, use my 2.0 TB and...


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

ment aba 16v g60 vs. aba 16v turbo sorry


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_ment aba 16v g60 vs. aba 16v turbo sorry


...Don't think there is a difference, unless the ABA 16v g60 is the supercharged motor? I don't really understand what you're asking. Is the ABA 16v g60 a motor that people have put together? Because all ABA motors have 8 valves. So, if the ABA 16v g60 is another Frankenstein motor, then I would say there are many differences between them. The most obvious being the supercharger. But there's also a wide range of things that can make them different besides their method of induction, such as which 16v head is used (the one from the 2.0L or the one from the 1.8L), the pistons used (either stock ABA pistons or stock 9A pistons, or forged pistons), and the crankshaft (many people use the TDI crank to increase the stroke).
But, I believe, if you use the 2.0L 16v head with 9A pistons on an ABA block (with motronic fuel system?), had a Euro intake cam installed, and used the 50mm intake manifold, then you have the ABF motor. I think. Don't remember if this is 100% true...so don't quote me on it.


_Modified by Chris164935 at 1:43 AM 4-15-2005_


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_ok i dont see where it says how to keep your serp setup...


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_If your wanting to run MK3 Accessories here is what you need.
MK3 Tesioner Bracket
MK3 Alternator
ABA Crank Pulley-needs to be machined down
Non Power Steering Kit 
Power Steering Kit



_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_why do i need a 2.0 16v oil pump? i thought the pumps were the same, but the two (16v and 8v) were just driven differently? 16v by the int. shaft, 8v by the dist. in the block?

I've heard that you can use the 8v oil pump from some and that you can't from others. I don't really know which to believe, so to be on the safe side, I would just go ahead and get the 16v oil pump as well. They are pretty cheap used (if you can find one).


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_ok so i'll need...
16v head...
my aba block
have my pully machined 6mm (serp crank pulley)
new arp studs ? mine are 8v
coolant hoses dunno what ones?
int. shaft
already have the block off plate
2.0 16v oil pump

If you're going for any kind of race application, you'll want head studs. I think you have to use 16v head studs though.
I'm sure you can easily run the stock ABA coolant hoses to the head...I haven't seen anyone mention any problems about it yet.
The intermediate shaft HAS to be from a 2.0L 16v motor (9a engine code). The 1.8L intermediate shaft, gear, and intermediate shaft pulley are a bit different and would have to be machined in order to work with the ABA motor.
If you use the block-off plate, you'll have to use the distributor from the 16v head, as well as 16v spark plugs. It is possible to use the ABA distributor though, but you'll have to find a way to block off the distributor spot in the 16v head (but I think it looks lame anyway having a dumby distributor just sitting on the head).
You'll also need gaskets. You will also need to figure out what fuel system you have so that you can determine how to set it up.


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_with forged pistons, i can get the stock CR in forged and get 8:1 cr?

With completely stock internals in the ABA block, you will get a compression ratio of about 8-8.5:1 when you put on the 16v head. If you don't want to shell out money for forged pistons but want to bring the compression ratio back up to about 10:1, you'll have to install 2.0L pistons (from the 9A engine code). As for forged pistons, you can have whatever you want. All you have to do is give your manufacturer some specs and what compression ratio you want the motor to have. Obviously, a lower compression ratio is better for turbo applications.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_ If you don't want to shell out money for forged pistons but want to bring the compression ratio back up to about 10:1, you'll have to install 2.0L pistons (from the 9A engine code). 
 9A pistons have a lower compression height than the correct (ABF) pistons and when the rods are rebushed (21mm to 20mm ) they result in an ~9:1 compression.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

You dont have to use the 16v oil pump or the intermediate shaft. What you do HAVE to do is use the gear off of the 16v intermediate shaft on a aba intermediate shaft.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_You dont have to use the 16v oil pump or the intermediate shaft. What you do HAVE to do is use the gear off of the 16v intermediate shaft on a aba intermediate shaft.

Which would require custom fabrication... It's just easier to use 16v intermediate shaft.


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

i'm trying to decide on which method of forced induction i want a g60, or a turbo


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

bump from the dead!


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

bump to keep active in my watch topics









edit: also anybody have any pics of ABF pistons? are they the same as 9a pistons but with 21mm wrist pins? 


_Modified by JediKGB at 11:47 AM 5-12-2005_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (JediKGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JediKGB* »_bump to keep active in my watch topics









edit: also anybody have any pics of ABF pistons? are they the same as 9a pistons but with 21mm wrist pins? 

_Modified by JediKGB at 11:47 AM 5-12-2005_
pretty much and with a different compression height.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_Peter tong makes ABA blockoff plates for your breather with or without a barbed fitting, you only need one if its going into something older than a mk3. 

Hi folks, 
Actually I revised the CNC ABA block off plates such that they now have a large enough barb fitting to replace the stock ABA breather. The plate also retains a second smaller fitting for a catch can drain... I did this for the 16v ABA folks...so I hope that helps some of you swap folks out there...
regards,
Peter Tong




_Modified by Peter Tong at 6:34 PM 5-13-2005_


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Peter Tong)*

Mmm.. I need one, PT!


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_ 9A pistons have a lower compression height than the correct (ABF) pistons and when the rods are rebushed (21mm to 20mm ) they result in an ~9:1 compression.

so now to get the ABA rods rebushed....a shop has to push out the small bushing at the top of the rod and push in this new one....now is it just like a hair thicker or something? and idea on how much it costs from the stealership?


----------



## BlownGTT (May 14, 2004)

*Re: (JediKGB)*

How is the ABF crank when used with boost and forged rods and pistons? I have a complete abf block and im thinking this whole swaping thing is headacke. The rod length is the same on ABA and ABF, i think in the long run you will need forged pistons and rods even in the aba block if you are shooting for big power so wouldnt it be cheaper to invest from start. Good thread, i think the first page should be modified and a few pics would help alot as people seem to be asking the same questions over and over.


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGTT* »_ I have a complete abf block 

I hate you


----------



## BlownGTT (May 14, 2004)

*Re: (JediKGB)*

why


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGTT)*

the green head of jealousy!


----------



## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

I'm just curious as to what I stand to gain by running an aba 16v stroker using 9a pistons and a tdi crank? Also, which tdi crank is used for this application?


----------



## DWI_gti (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: (Nefarious1.8t)*

I was wondering if any one has used the "euro inake cam" (just using exhaust cam as a intake) on a 16v head with aba rods and pistons. What I want to know is at reasonable rpms (nothing over 7,500), did you bend any valves. I know if you used 9a pistons using cams is not a big deal, but not so sure with a stock aba block










_Modified by DWI_gti at 7:54 AM 6-1-2005_


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

Since the ABA pistons are dished, I doubt there would be any issue with a 'euro' cam and bending valves..


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (DWI_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DWI_gti* »_I was wondering if any one has used the "euro inake cam" (just using exhaust cam as a intake) on a 16v head with aba rods and pistons. I know if you used 9a pistons using cams is not a big deal, but not so sure with a stock aba block 
these are two seperate applications. there is a euro intake cam and some people use modded exh. cams as intake cams. The 9A pistons sit 1.4mm lower than correct ABF type pistons (due to comp.height differences) so they gain clearance and lower compression.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

So is there a way to just put in the 16 head onto an ABA block without really modding either in terms of pistons and internals, and be able to safely boost the motor? I'm not talking huge PSI here, maybe shooting for around 200hp.


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

Also, what tranmission is used? Just the 02 tranny from the ABA block?


----------



## GTI 2.0 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

So if I use aba pistons does anyone know what the exact c/r will be I don't want it to be to low.I want to run like 20-25lbs of boost or would I be better off with the 9a pistons(this is with running aba crank+rods)
Also how much could I use use off of my corrado pg block(like pulleys and ass.)Thinking about doing the conversion to my corrado http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

I think ~9:1... why so high of a boost level?
You'll have more to worry about with that boost, than what pistons to use.. Think you need to do a little (alot) more research on building a turbo motor..
What turbo are you using, that you plan to push 20-25psi?
I dont understand why so many people want to jump in and build a turbo car, with no real education of the mechanicals/design/qualifications of the scenerio..


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

16v head with ABA is closer to 8:1 (~8.2:1)


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Everyone seem to think the ABA pistons with 16v head will yield a 8.5:1 compression ratio, I personally think it'll be closer to 8:1, but it depends on if you believe the ABA engine starts off with a 10:1 or a 9.6:1 ratio from the factory. With the 9A pistons it'll be between 8.5:1 and 9:1 depending on if you believe the factory spec of 10.8:1 or the commonly believed 10.4:1. The only way to really tell is to cc the engine when you are building it. Someone should lets us know though.


----------



## VwCrazykid (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Question I have access to a 16v head I may pick it up I don't have to use the cis management correct?I have megasquirt currently on my aba8v


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VwCrazykid)*

If you have mega squirt don't even give that CIS crap a second glance.


----------



## VwCrazykid (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

Yea I figured that I would need a auto 16v tb from a passat for the tps I believe right


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VwCrazykid)*

yeah that works well.


----------



## VwCrazykid (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_yeah that works well.
8v digi 2 also?


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

this thread is a mess, 
Is it safe to say, if I want to run MK3 accessories, I can run all the ABA pullies belts, etc, IF i shave down the 16v crank pulley and use the 16v IT shaft, oil pump etc?
I just want to use the MK3 accessories.


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: (CruiseVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_this thread is a mess, 
Is it safe to say, if I want to run MK3 accessories, I can run all the ABA pullies belts, etc, IF i shave down the 16v crank pulley and use the 16v IT shaft, oil pump etc?
I just want to use the MK3 accessories. 

bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## velvet8valver (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (CruiseVW)*

fixed it










_Modified by velvet8valver at 11:52 PM 6-20-2005_


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Hmmm...Too many people too damn lazy to read the first post of this thread, so I'll just quote it again here, with a couple additions.

_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_I would like to get a Master ABA 16v Parts list/ ABA 16v FAQ thread going in order to help all of those who have many questions and are not sure about what specific parts are needed to make this work. Please post up if you have any info, just be sure that the info you are contributing is accurate and correct. I will Update the list every other day if not every day. If anything is wrong or if something needs to be added then post up and ill add it to the master list below. I want to try and keep the list as easy to understand as possible so it will answer many questions by reading it. Please help out with this thread as i am not doing it just to help out other Vortexers, but i myself need to know more info so i can gather all the needed parts so i can get the motor in my jetta and get megasquirt on and get the car running!
~Engine & Internals~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Block: OBD1/OBD2 ABA
Crank: OBD1/OBD2 ABA
Crank Bearings: ABA
Connecting Rods: OBD1/OBD2 ABA
Pistons: 2.0L 16v
Rod Bearings: ????
Head: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v
Oil Pan: ABA
Headgasket: ABA or 2.0L 16v
~Compression Ratios~
---------------------------------------------------------------
With ABA Pistons: 8-8.5:1
With 9A Pistions: 9.5-10.5:1
~Intake & Exhaust~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Throttle Body: G60 or Automatic 16v
Intake Manifold: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v
~Belts & Pulleys~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Timing Belt: Eurosport ABA 16v Or OEM 150 Tooth 1.8T
Idler/Tensioner Pulley: 9A 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump: 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump Drive: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Crank Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Belt: 2.0L 16v
Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v
~Fuel & Spark~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Fuel Pump: Rabbit CIS
Fuel Filter: CIS
FPR: G60
Spark Plugs: 16v
Distributer: 16v
Spark Plug Wires: 16v
Distributer Block Off: TT Block Off Plate
~Options~
---------------------------------------------------------------
here is the changes you need to make for the following
1) High Boost Forced Induction-----------ABA pistons/ABA Rods
2) Mild Boost Forced Induction-----------9A pistons/ABA Rods
3) NA + Extreme Nitrous------------------See # 1
4) NA + Mild Nitrous-----------------------See # 2
5) High Compression---------------------ABF Pistons/ABA Rods
6) Stroker----------------------------------9A Pistons/TDI Crank
If your wanting to run MK3 Accessories here is what you need.
MK3 Tesioner Bracket
MK3 Alternator
ABA Crank Pulley-needs to be machined down
Non Power Steering Kit 
Power Steering Kit 

Thanks in advance :crosses fingers and hopes this thread takes off:









There are many other things you could run on this setup (such as Motronic from an OBD2 ABA motor). I suggest reading the *whole* thread to find out if the application you want to run is possible.


----------



## DWI_gti (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Chris164935)*

Ya there are alot of systems, User Bonesaw and me are just finishing up a digi 1 install on my aba16vT


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

Is it a MUST that you run 9A pistons? Can you not run the STOCK ABA pistons?


----------



## VwCrazykid (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: (CruiseVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_Is it a MUST that you run 9A pistons? Can you not run the STOCK ABA pistons?
Yes you can use aba pistons but you have to use stock cams that's also on the first page


----------



## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (VwCrazykid)*

is it just me or are people just too lazy and don't want to read through the whole post to find out their answers,


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: (VwCrazykid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VwCrazykid* »_Yes you can use aba pistons but you have to use stock cams that's also on the first page

Ok, I'm not lazy, so I must be blind. Where does it say the above quote? Cuz I Just read the FIRS page and I dont see a mention of having to use stock cams with ABA rods AND pistons otherwise there will be contact between the 2 at a certain RPM.


----------



## DWI_gti (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: (CruiseVW)*

Well I asked that Question about 2 pages back, what cams can be used with a stock aba bottom end. I got the answer that you could use moded exhaust cams as an intake cam. But it was people’s opinion, not what they experience. But it is pritty much viewed true that if you have an aba bottom end and throw in some big cams you would bend a valve or more. Maybe not at first but soon enough


----------



## VwCrazykid (Nov 8, 2003)

*Re: (CruiseVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_
Ok, I'm not lazy, so I must be blind. Where does it say the above quote? Cuz I Just read the FIRS page and I dont see a mention of having to use stock cams with ABA rods AND pistons otherwise there will be contact between the 2 at a certain RPM.








I didn't mean any disrespect or anything like that I wasn't trying to flame you or rip into you so if you feel I am I'm not I was just adding that the info your looking for is also scattered throughout this thread on multiple pages since people asked that question a couple of times.I know the thread is jumbled hopefully we can get a mod to clean it up but I actually looked through all the pages reading every single post a couple of times while helping a friend do a aba16V swap I know it's long but no one will help you unless you atleast try to help yourself give the thread a good look through and you will see the answer to almost every question you could have







I hope your swap goes smoothly


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: (VwCrazykid)*

yea no doubt http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Nah, i wasn offended or anything. I just thought it was literally on the first page and I was missing something. 
And the thread is hard I guess cuz I am doing a turbo setup instead of a N/A and the posts criss cross here and there. But its all good. I'll get it all. I hope it goes smooth as well, my car hasnt run in 2 years and miss driving it.


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## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (CruiseVW)*

MY buddy (blurpleGTI) just finished his 16vABA-T setup in his MkIII.. Stock cams, SDS, 10psi.. Let me tell you, if you are going turbo (not sure if you are), stock cams are puh-len-tee!! lol His car pulls so friggin hard.. 3rd gear, 35mph, rolls on the throttle, and smoke starts to pour over the front fenders as the hydes light up! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## veedublunatik (Apr 3, 2005)

I am in the process of an OBD 1 ABA-16v hybrid. I will be posting a complete write up when I'm done. Hopefully it will be helpful to you all


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

OBD I swaps are easy. It's the OBD II swaps that get a little tougher to do.
Also, I've never heard of any problems with valves hitting the pistons on heads with upgraded cams (using 9A pistons or not).


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## Clav (Dec 14, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (nbtstat -a1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nbtstat -a1* »_
correct... 93 / 94 had the forged crank / oil squirts

mines a 95 but has the forged crank / oil squirts as well


----------



## GTI 2.0 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Clav)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Clav* »_
mines a 95 but has the forged crank / oil squirts as well

The car was prob assembled in 94 even though its a 95 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Clav)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Clav* »_mines a 95 but has the forged crank / oil squirts as well

how can you tell if you have oil squirters? I assume its something you can see when disassembling the block, what do they look like?
did they come on all OBDI blocks? 
My block is from a 93 jetta.


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## GTI 2.0 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (CruiseVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_
how can you tell if you have oil squirters? I assume its something you can see when disassembling the block, what do they look like?
did they come on all OBDI blocks? 
My block is from a 93 jetta.

They are on the bottom of the cylinder wall and they curve up toward the pistons very easy to see when you take the piston out,and your 93 engine should def have them










_Modified by GTI 2.0 at 11:23 PM 6-25-2005_


----------



## veedublunatik (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: (veedublunatik)*

Waiting for parts







Does anyone have exact figures for compression ratios from milling cylinder heads? I still haven't figured out how much to mill this pig







I'm shooting for a 10:1 or 10.5:1........... Machine shop guy (mullet crew feller) laughed and asked me ....why are you building up a vw ? I just kept my mouth shut ,smirked and thought how much satisfaction i'm gonna get when I see him on the highway with his 86' Camaro and I get to answer his dumbass question first hand







So anyway I need to find a dub machinist


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (CruiseVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_
how can you tell if you have oil squirters? I assume its something you can see when disassembling the block, what do they look like?
did they come on all OBDI blocks? 
My block is from a 93 jetta.

here is a pic of 4 oil squirters and the bolts that hold them into the block, the little piece points up to the bottom of the piston....


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (veedublunatik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedublunatik* »_Waiting for parts







Does anyone have exact figures for compression ratios from milling cylinder heads? I still haven't figured out how much to mill this pig







I'm shooting for a 10:1 or 10.5:1........... Machine shop guy (mullet crew feller) laughed and asked me ....why are you building up a vw ? I just kept my mouth shut ,smirked and thought how much satisfaction i'm gonna get when I see him on the highway with his 86' Camaro and I get to answer his dumbass question first hand







So anyway I need to find a dub machinist 

Depends on how much you mill down the cylinder head.
If you're wondering about compression ratios on the 16v motors, then read this: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1211812 Only thing is that link does not talk about compression ratios for a 16v head on an ABA block. But, I'm sure you can figure it out.


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

THanks for the info on the oil squirters guys! interesting pic too. Any reason VW stopped putting these on the ABA blocks? Prolly no rhyme or reason like most of their rational.


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (CruiseVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_THanks for the info on the oil squirters guys! interesting pic too. Any reason VW stopped putting these on the ABA blocks? Prolly no rhyme or reason like most of their rational.









$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ they stopped putting them in, and went to cast cranks and rods, and lightweight lifters with single valve springs....all in the name of OBD2.....


----------



## veedublunatik (Apr 3, 2005)

I have heard mixed info on timing sprockets. My question is do you have to use a 9a cam sprocket on the intermediate or just the stock 9a intermediate pulley?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

You have to use the whole 9a intermediate shaft. Unless you're good working with metal. One of the gears on the shaft is attached to the shaft, you'd have to cut it off and reweld it or whatever to a different intermediate shaft (such as the 1.8 16v intermediate shaft). Please refer to the first page of this thread for more info on parts.


----------



## veedublunatik (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

I already have that installed but I'm not sure on the sprocket to use. Do you or anyone else know for sure that the stock sprocket is the correct one to use on it ? 
Attn.







When using the ABA rods with 9a pistons and 9a wrist pins!!! For upper bushings the dealer will come up with a listing for PN/053 431 B. This is incorrect! they will not work. These bushings are too small to accept the wrist pins in ABA rods. The correct PN is 053 431 A /0998. 
Also have them installed by a machine shop







It'll save you a big pain in the ass http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (veedublunatik)*

use the 9A intermediate gear on the intermediate shaft.


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (veedublunatik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedublunatik* »_
Attn.







When using the ABA rods with 9a pistons and 9a wrist pins!!! For upper bushings the dealer will come up with a listing for PN/053 431 B. This is incorrect! they will not work. These bushings are too small to accept the wrist pins in ABA rods. The correct PN is 053 431 A /0998. 
Also have them installed by a machine shop







It'll save you a big pain in the ass http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

odd....in ETKA it lists the conn. rod bushing as 026 105 431 for PF,PL, RV, 9a... and 048 105 431 as the conn. rod bushing for the ABA.... I wonder what the 053 431 B is then..... in ETKA 053 * 105 * 431 B is the conn. rod bushing for the ACC engine....(1.8 canadian i think)


----------



## veedublunatik (Apr 3, 2005)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

Thanx thats what I thought http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VwSpeedDemon2 (Apr 21, 2004)

*Re: (veedublunatik)*

so what arp head studs do you use for a aba16v. I skimmed the thread so if i missed it don't flame me


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (VwSpeedDemon2)*

16v head studs for 16v heads......8v head studs for 8v heads.....
blocks don't matter...the thread pitch is all the same 
 FLAME ON! 


















_Modified by JediKGB at 7:57 AM 7-10-2005_


----------



## bori28 (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (GTI 2.0)*

can i use a aba obd2 block with 16v head on digi2


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (bori28)*

Sure...just need to lengthen the fuel lines, change out the engine harness I believe (dont think the mk3 harness will accept the digi2 ecu) , get a fuel rail...and have like 8:1 c/r...so i hope your planning on goin boost.....
ps. search helps


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## bori28 (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JediKGB)*

well im going for high compression all motor.so im gonna be buying some abf pistons to do this swap. if i dont like the results then i might go boost.thanks


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## sracwohsf (Jul 13, 2005)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_You have to use the whole 9a intermediate shaft. Unless you're good working with metal. One of the gears on the shaft is attached to the shaft, you'd have to cut it off and reweld it or whatever to a different intermediate shaft (such as the 1.8 16v intermediate shaft). Please refer to the first page of this thread for more info on parts.

if you do that.. make sure the drive gear on the oil pump fits, otherwise you gotta match the pump to the drive you welded on. 
edits for the first post should be 
oil pump drive GEAR - 2.0 16v
and aba rod bushings


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gtidov (Jun 26, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hasnfefr)*

this thread starts going around in circles now, can I use stock 9a pistons aba block crank with a 2l 16v head and run 18 psi and be safe


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

since you only have 8 posts....I'll go easy on you..
quoted from the first page: 

_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_
~Options~
---------------------------------------------------------------
here is the changes you need to make for the following
1) High Boost Forced Induction-----------ABA pistons/ABA Rods
*2) Mild Boost Forced Induction-----------9A pistons/ABA Rods *
3) NA + Extreme Nitrous------------------See # 1
4) NA + Mild Nitrous-----------------------See # 2
5) High Compression---------------------ABF Pistons/ABA Rods
6) Stroker----------------------------------9A Pistons/TDI Crank


as 2) points out (with 9a pistons and an aba crank) you can run *MILD* boost....so if you consider 18psi to be mild, then you're fine.
next time, try reading just a smidgen.

edit: the c/r for what you want is about 9:1, so if 18psi is able to run on 9:1 c/r then you could be fine.....but i don't do a lot of FI stuff....


_Modified by JediKGB at 12:11 PM 7-24-2005_


----------



## gtidov (Jun 26, 2005)

i had read 8 pages of this thread but i just didn’t know what you guys considered mild boost


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## Eurolife69 (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

if memory serves right, they have an ABF timing belt for this swap.


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## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwtunner)*

what do i need if i was going to put itb's on?


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (18T MKIV)*

uhm...well the block, and head, and throttle bodies....access to a machine shop (or deep pockets) and probably want a higher compression since the low c/r are good for boost....


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

And some sort of stand-alone management, I believe.


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## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

Off-Topic:
Chris - I read you signature and had a *hard* time believing that the '05 GLI weighs 3800 lbs.. That's what my '85 BMW 745i Turbo weighed 3800 and it's way bigger and more solid than the Jetta.. So this is what I googled..
Vehicle Dimensions 
*4-door sedan *4-door wagon 
Wheelbase, in. *98.9* 99.0 
Overall Length, in. *172.3* 173.6 
Overall Width, in. *68.3* 68.3 
Overall Height, in. *56.7* 58.5 
Curb Weight, lbs. *2895* 3034 
Cargo Volume, cu. ft. *13.0* 51.9 
Standard Payload, lbs. -- -- -- -- 
Fuel Capacity, gals. *14.5* 14.5 
Seating Capacity *5* 5 
Front Head Room, in. *38.6* 38.6 
Max. Front Leg Room, in. *41.5* 41.5 
Rear Head Room, in. *36.9* 38.1 
Min. Rear Leg Room, in. *33.5* 33.5 

Unless you've got 1000lbs of stereo equipment















Edit: link for reference: http://auto.consumerguide.com/...Specs/


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_And some sort of stand-alone management, I believe.

what is the best one to use and want do i need to get high compression... and i am pretty posive that the 05 jetta weights about that much... just look on the door


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (18T MKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T MKIV* »_
what is the best one to use and want do i need to get high compression... and i am pretty posive that the 05 jetta weights about that much... just look on the door

hi compression and boost = boom..
door weight is gross weight (car + cargo/occupants)


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Whoops. Fixed it. Hey, quick question: How can I run a 15 flat at 94 mph? My fastest (as you've seen) is 14.6, but at 92 mph...








Anyway, one good (and cheap) stand alone management would be Megasquirt/Megaspark. You have to pretty much build the whole setup yourself, but it's still way cheaper than other kits.


_Modified by Chris164935 at 10:42 PM 7-26-2005_


----------



## vdubn98 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_Hey, quick question: How can I run a 15 flat at 94 mph? My fastest (as you've seen) is 14.6, but at 92 mph...









_Modified by Chris164935 at 10:42 PM 7-26-2005_

launch and accel. would be my guess, your 15 flat at 94mph probably had a bad launch compared to your 14.6 at 92mph
someone correct me if wrong


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JediKGB)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_Whoops. Fixed it. Hey, quick question: How can I run a 15 flat at 94 mph? My fastest (as you've seen) is 14.6, but at 92 mph...









Rule of Thumb:
Torque gets you e.t.
Horsepower gets you mile per hour
14.6 @ 92 would calculate to 188hp in a 3000 pound car (using RWD calculations, though..) Either way, this is an accurate measurement, mph vs. ET.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (qwikxr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *qwikxr* »_
Rule of Thumb:
Torque gets you e.t.
Horsepower gets you mile per hour
14.6 @ 92 would calculate to 188hp in a 3000 pound car (using RWD calculations, though..) Either way, this is an accurate measurement, mph vs. ET.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

IS this WHP or Crank? I have allways wondered what to use when doing this calculation.


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (pozer)*

Generally speaking (with RWD cars, as I am most used to), it is related to whp. I know there are multiple variances when calculating fwd figures..


----------



## mrkil (Jul 25, 2004)

wondering if anyone knows the stock c/r for the 1.8 acc motor. 
i'm thinking of doing a 16v or 8v turbo. 
since the aba and acc blocks are almost identicle, i was thinking it should be a lower c/r since the acc is a mono-motronic, and built for fuel economy.
what do you guys think about this idea?


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

i havent read the whole 10 pages....
but what do you do about the crank pulley? isnt the 16v belt wider?
can you run aba accessories?


----------



## mrkil (Jul 25, 2004)

there's an adapter pulley for the swap or you can shave the 8v pulely


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*

waterneck on the front of the 16v head will interfere with the tensioner spring section of the accy bracket.. you'll need to mod the filler neck a little..


----------



## ubergolfgl (Oct 12, 2004)

theres a lot of info to go through in here, but in the first post it said an OBD1 ABA block. what is the difference between the OBD1 and OBD2 blocks? can i use an OBD2 block instead, because i have access to one i can rebuild. thanks guys.


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## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (ubergolfgl)*

Im putting together my ABA 16v right now and i slid the Int Shaft into the block, slid the oil pump into the block, and put the Oil pump Drive gear onto the shaft of the oil pump. My problem is that it doesnt even touch the gear on the Int shaft?? it just doesnt seem to line up at all. I have the 16V int. shaft, Oil Pump and Drive gear but for some reason nothing lines up.....I also had a bit of trouble fitting the TDI crank it was tapping the oil sqirters a little bit, that problem is resolved but did anyone else run into anything like that installing the 95.5 crank? So basically i diddnt get very far tonight and ive been here for like 4 hours.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

Did you get the 1.8 or the 2.0 IM shaft. from what I have heard the 1.8 shaft don't fit...


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (pozer)*

not sure if its 1.8 or 2.0, i thought the diffrence was thickness of the shaft, i thouht the 2.0 skinnier, to clear the bigger crank. can someone confirm?


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

No, more to it than that. 
THe actual bearing race areas are larger on the 2.0 16v Int. shaft, than the 1.8L 16v. That I do know. The 2.0 will not fit in a 1.8 block, and the 1.8 fits sloppy - and short, i think..


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

It has to be 2.0 shaft now that i think about it, the crank spins freely no interference from the int. shaft. and if your saying the 1.8 would fit sloppy then it definatly cant be wrong because the shaft fits nice and tight, no slack in either of the races. Is there a part i need to install other than just the drie gear, is there a spacer or something thatmight make the gear itself fit? i have to say im pretty confused right now.


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

do you have the cover piece and stuff to compensate for the lack of distributor? you are using the 16v dizzy ?


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

no i dont have a block off or anything, and yes im using the dizzy from the 16v.


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

what are you replacing the ABA distr. with, then? What are you using to compensate for the now missing block dizzy?


----------



## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (qwikxr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *qwikxr* »_what are you replacing the ABA distr. with, then? What are you using to compensate for the now missing block dizzy?

the aba distributor hole gets blocked off with the 16v block off plate...
and then you run the 16v distributor in the head..
all you gotta do is read read read...


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (The Hater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Hater* »_
the aba distributor hole gets blocked off with the 16v block off plate...
and then you run the 16v distributor in the head..
all you gotta do is read read read...
















chill, dude.. I wasnt asking as a group.. I was asking ^^ is efforts to ANSWER or HELP RESOLVE HIS issue.. 
friggin relax., read read read


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

I was planning on getting the block off, just diddnt have acces to one just yet, is it critical? could that be why this whole thing isnt lining up? 
I knew what you meant, I do appriciate the replies. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

Detrimental to get all the related parts from the 16v.


----------



## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

maybe you should have quoted him then...
in any event, this thread has pretty much every bit of info one could need to do an aba/16v but noone reads the thread...how is someone going to build a motor if you can't read?


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (The Hater)*

if you'd followed the last 4-5 posts of the thread, you could have figured that out. 
I'll ensure I quote from now on to appease the masses.

_Quote, originally posted by *The Hater* »_maybe you should have quoted him then...
in any event, this thread has pretty much every bit of info one could need to do an aba/16v but noone reads the thread...how is someone going to build a motor if you can't read? 

I agree with your statement, as well, but is definitely needs cleaned up a bit. This thread is getting long in the tooth and is cumbersome to sort through, anymore.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## eurotuner-a2 (Jan 24, 2004)

What kind of mod do you have to do on the water thingy from the head and where do you get the modded aba crank pulley cause i figure it will be cheaper to run aba accesories than finding 2.0 16v pulleys and gear... thanks


----------



## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (eurotuner-a2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurotuner-a2* »_What kind of mod do you have to do on the water thingy from the head and where do you get the modded aba crank pulley cause i figure it will be cheaper to run aba accesories than finding 2.0 16v pulleys and gear... thanks

Qwikxr - see what i'm talking about? people don't even bother to read the first page anymore...the first post gives his crank pulley answer...


----------



## mrkil (Jul 25, 2004)

i spent a good 45 minutes reading the whole thread last night.
it contains every thing you need to know about the aba 16v swap
it's well worth the read. it's just the last few pages that get messy
i j ust wish i could find out what the stock c/r is for the acc block.
i'd love to do this but i need to figure out if it's gonna be an easy job of a tonne of machining


_Modified by mrkil at 10:24 AM 8-29-2005_


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (The Hater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Hater* »_
Qwikxr - see what i'm talking about? people don't even bother to read the first page anymore...the first post gives his crank pulley answer...
werd


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

Yea i see that but how can a plug stop two stationary gears from lining up. I have all the other necesary parts but that was left off when i bought them, I diddnt forget it i just dont have it. 
By the way, i spent all morning pretending to work but really i was reading this thread, It says nothing about IM shaft/Drive gear lining up. I know the list of parts needed for the swap, i could rattle them off in my sleep. the thread does need to cleaned up if was patient enough id cut and paste all the relevant info into a new thread but im just not patient.


_Modified by ROBHARMER at 11:09 AM 8-29-2005_


----------



## eurotuner-a2 (Jan 24, 2004)

to the hater, ur an idiot. um i was wondering if anyone sells the modded serp crank pulley or do i have to make my own?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (eurotuner-a2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurotuner-a2* »_to the hater, ur an idiot. um i was wondering if anyone sells the modded serp crank pulley or do i have to make my own?

And, like the "hater" said, if you would have read the first post, you would already have the answer to your question.
Anyway, about the intermediate shaft. You need the intermediate shaft from a 9A motor (2.0L 16v block). You might be able to mod the gear from the 9A oil pump to fit on an ABA oil pump, but I'm not sure, so I always recommend people to use the 9A oil pump. If you use the 9A intermediate shaft and oil pump, that is all you will need. You can remove the ABA distributor and use a block-off plate to cover up the hole. That will prevent major oil leakage from the ginormous hole left by the ABA distributor. It does not help to line up the gears for the oil pump and intermediate shaft. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ubergolfgl (Oct 12, 2004)

i read through the thread and saw no definite answer that an OBD2 ABA block could be used. there was a link with the differences from OBD1 and OBD2, but i just want to make sure it can be used. it will determine if i attempt this project or not. thanks.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (ubergolfgl)*

You can use either block.


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (ubergolfgl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ubergolfgl* »_i read through the thread and saw no definite answer that an OBD2 ABA block could be used. there was a link with the differences from OBD1 and OBD2, but i just want to make sure it can be used. it will determine if i attempt this project or not. thanks.

As stated in a post on the first page of this thread, Only difference between the two blocks are the cranks and oil squirters (found in OBD1 blocks)..


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_
Anyway, about the intermediate shaft. You need the intermediate shaft from a 9A motor (2.0L 16v block). You might be able to mod the gear from the 9A oil pump to fit on an ABA oil pump, but I'm not sure, so I always recommend people to use the 9A oil pump. If you use the 9A intermediate shaft and oil pump, that is all you will need. You can remove the ABA distributor and use a block-off plate to cover up the hole. That will prevent major oil leakage from the ginormous hole left by the ABA distributor. It does not help to line up the gears for the oil pump and intermediate shaft. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Im using all 9A parts oil pump Drive Gear, oil pump and Intermediate shaft. when i spin the Intermediate shaft the oil pump doesnt spin, the gear is on the shaft, but nothing is happening there is like a 2mm gap between the two gears. 


_Modified by ROBHARMER at 8:50 AM 8-31-2005_


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

Rob - can you get us a picture of good quality detail where the gears are not touching? I understand your description, just curious to see the situation.


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

yea i have pics, ill upload them tonight.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

That doesn't sound right...


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

Here are some pics, 
This is the pic of the int. shaft/oil pump drive gears, 









they really dont line up, it kind of looks like the gears are set wrong also!?!? that could just be my eyes playing tricks. 
Here a pick of my ABF Intake manifold, started polishing it the other night








And a shot of the TDi Crank


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Take them out if you can and F with them until they mesh together.


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

tried that a few times, the problem is there is no adjustment on there. i have a feeling i might have gotten jipped on this gear, the im shaft has to be right, but is it possible this is an ABA gear? just taken off the ABA dist. Or is thios the first time anyone has ever seen anything like this? that would be my luck. and i would have to get a new block or something.


----------



## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

that gearset does look wrong. 
If I can, tonight, I'll take a pic of my spare 9A set and post it for you..


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (qwikxr)*

If anyone needs a set of new aba 159mm eurospec rods i have a set.
Plans have changed
Just IM me.
Andre


----------



## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

i am using a obd1 block all obd1 internals
9a oil pump
9a intermediate shaft
9a block off plate
arp aba headstuds and 16v headgasket
150 tooth 1.8t timing belt
serp belt -
1.8t crank pulleu
10mm spacer for crank pulley
16v water pump 
aba alternater 
aba waterpump pulley
no ac no power steering
ported 1.8 16v head and 20+ lbs on autronic smc in a mk1 jetta coupe


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (qwikxr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *qwikxr* »_that gearset does look wrong. 
If I can, tonight, I'll take a pic of my spare 9A set and post it for you..

Any luck on that pic? id really appriciate it, i just got my ABA dist. and looked at the gear, the gear from the ABA meshes right up to the int. shaft. is it possible i have an ABA int. shaft with 16v gear on it?















does anyone know part numbers off of the aba shaft or the 9a shaft. 
Just checked the ABA dist. and it meshes with the int shaft perfectly, i think i have the wrong int. shaft. 


_Modified by ROBHARMER at 1:32 PM 9-5-2005_


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (eurotuner-a2)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

New Int. Shaft, Drive Gear and block off plate just arrived. the int. shaft is completely diffrent, and looks liek it'll work just fine. im going to pull the numbers off both to give a heads up which one works and which one doesnt.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

whats the CR with stock aba pistons? is it 9:1?
im wanting to build my spare aba block for 16v aba /w forged pistons, but i dont know what to order to get the right CR...
looking to get 8.75:1-9:1


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_whats the CR with stock aba pistons? is it 9:1?
im wanting to build my spare aba block for 16v aba /w forged pistons, but i dont know what to order to get the right CR...
looking to get 8.75:1-9:1
low 8s:1 (8.2:1 IIRC), 9A pistons on rebushed rods yield around 9:1.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*

so whats the CR in my aba16v right now with just the aba pistons and 1 hg?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_so whats the CR in my aba16v right now with just the aba pistons and 1 hg?
~8.2:1. Were you asking the compression of an ABA with an 8V head? It is 10:1. Just order the compression you want for the combination you have. http://www.porttuning.com has most common combinations and can get whatever you want.


_Modified by vwpat at 6:31 PM 9-29-2005_


----------



## Blk_Rocco (May 17, 2001)

^^^ that's a wholel other can of worms!!!! there are plenty other threads on that too hehehe


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Blk_Rocco)*

If you use the 16v auto TB do you also use the 16v intake hose? If you use the 16v hose does the ABA MAF fit if? Does anyone know where to get an adaptor for the ABA TB?
Edit: is there a difference between the 2.0L 16v intermediate shaft and the 1.8L


_Modified by Mr.Incognito at 5:35 PM 10-9-2005_


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_If you use the 16v auto TB do you also use the 16v intake hose? If you use the 16v hose does the ABA MAF fit if? Does anyone know where to get an adaptor for the ABA TB?

At this point, it'd probably be best just to fab an intake. I don't know if there are any companies that make an adapter plate to connect the ABA throttle body to the 16v intake manifold, however, with throttle body gaskets from both the ABA and 16v, any competent machine shop could fabricate you one.

_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_Edit: is there a difference between the 2.0L 16v intermediate shaft and the 1.8L

Yes. The gears are different sizes I believe and the shafts are different as well.


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote »_Yes. The gears are different sizes I believe and the shafts are different as well.

That was my problem, tried using a 1.8 int. shaft with a 2.0 drive gear, just wont work....


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

So you want to use the intermediate shaft from the 2.0? What exactly does the TPS do on the TB? I've also been wondering about the fuel system. Can you use the stock system from an OBD 1 ABA? How is the fuel rail set up on the 16v?
I've just started sourcing parts for the swap hopefully I'll be doing it during my christmas break this winter.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

In short, yes, you can.


----------



## kaizenro (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re:*

bump and say something else on BBM in conjunction w/ this topic....please.


_Modified by kaizenro at 4:47 AM 10-16-2005_


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Re: (kaizenro)*

does anyone know if you can swap the 16v oil pump drive shaft into the ABA oil pump so it will mesh with the 16v IM shaft?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_So you want to use the intermediate shaft from the 2.0? What exactly does the TPS do on the TB? I've also been wondering about the fuel system. Can you use the stock system from an OBD 1 ABA? How is the fuel rail set up on the 16v?
I've just started sourcing parts for the swap hopefully I'll be doing it during my christmas break this winter.

The stock EFI can be setup to run the 16vaba but its a waist of time.. Go standalone and do it rite the first time...


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (pozer)*

I can always do that later, I plan on doing a turbo when I get better cash flow so thats prolly when I'll go standalone. anyone know about swapping the oil pump drive so I dont need a new pump.


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Mr.Incognito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_does anyone know if you can swap the 16v oil pump drive shaft into the ABA oil pump so it will mesh with the 16v IM shaft?


probably...but why not just get the whole oil pump? they're both 36mm gears......basically the drive shaft adn the gear are one piece, of if u can get it out of the aba pump, im pretty sure u can get it out of the 16v pump


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Re: (JediKGB)*

Does the ABA exhaust manifold bolt up to the 16v head?
Edit: What is the engine code for the 150 tooth 1.8T timing belt?


_Modified by Mr.Incognito at 9:46 PM 10-30-2005_


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: Re: (Mr.Incognito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_Does the ABA exhaust manifold bolt up to the 16v head?

No


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Re: (pozer)*

Will the 16v exhaust mani bolt up to the ABA downpipe? I guess my real question is how much or the 16v exhaust system do I need to get?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: Re: (Mr.Incognito)*

I don't think the 16v exhaust manifold will match up to the ABA DP at all... I'm sure you could work something custom out just to get by but then your looking at more money for something your going to change later..


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Re: (pozer)*

ABA DP connects to 16V EM just fine.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Re: (vwpat)*

Any of you 16v/ABA folks need billet CNC 16v serpentine crank pulleys? I'd be more than happy to make a run of these for folks that need them...


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Peter Tong)*

This crank pulley you are gonna make is one that allows us to run the Mk3 accesories right? If thats true I'd be interested depending on the price.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Re: (Mr.Incognito)*

Yes serpentine to allow folks to run the Mk3 accessories with their 16v...as for prices - why don't you folks give me a price... whats fair? 
These would come provisioned for the PS v-belt as well...


----------



## bighauler1 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: Re: (Peter Tong)*

I too would be interested in a pulley, and as for asking mk2 peeps to name a price,well, after all we are the cheepazz mk2 crowd


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Re: (bighauler1)*

Looks like there is very little interest on this board at least...


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Peter Tong)*

Someone should update that main list on the first page to include the exhaust mani


----------



## dkirsch (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_ABA DP connects to 16V EM just fine.

N/A ABA/16v in an A2, the down pipe from the A2 will be to short. I should use the ABA downpipe to make work?


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

i have many qestions about the head, electrical, block pretty much everything to do this i need everthing to do this swap please help me out before i get way in over my head thanks


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (18T MKIV)*

A few ABF part Numbers 
Coolant Flanges
027 121 145 b-Side
037 121 132 j-Front
357 121 140 Plug for Front
n 902 954 01 Seal For Side
Intake Pipe
1HO 129 627 F
ISV connecting Pipe
037 133 997 
Intake Manifold 
Upper-037 133 201 BG
Lower-037 133 206 A
Gasket-037 129 717 E
Manifold Supports 
037 133 231 R
037 133 231 Q
Exsaust manifold Heat Sheild 
037 253 041 AK
Exsaust Manifold 
037 253 031 BK
Engine Wiring Harness
037 971 595 
Engine Compartment Wiring Harness 
1H1 971 072 PG
Air Box
1HO 129 607 EF
I-M shaft 
Shaft 053 115 017 C
Pulley 027 109 111 G
Coolant ose Flange>Oilcooler>Water Pump 
037 121 053 K
Water Pipe metal 
037 121 065 J
Upper Rad Hose 
1HO 121 101 E
Piston 
048 107 065 J
Intake Cam 
051 109 021 B
Ex Cam
051 109 022 B
Upper timing belt cover 
053 109 123 C
Lower Cover
053 109 119 G
Timing Belt 
B 048 109 119 G
Cover 
053 109 129 A
Throttle Bod 
037 133 061 BQ
Fuel Rail 
037 133 317 M
_Modified by ROBHARMER at 7:55 AM 11-21-2005_


_Modified by ROBHARMER at 12:36 PM 11-21-2005_


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (18T MKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T MKIV* »_i have many qestions about the head, electrical, block pretty much everything to do this i need everthing to do this swap please help me out before i get way in over my head thanks

What do you need help with? Do you need some parts? More specific questions would be nice.


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Chris164935)*

what ecu do i need? do i need to make any mods to fit the head on with the coolent? do i have to have 20l 16v block parts (oil pump etc...) or can i use 1.8 block parts? i want to do a tdi crank with 9a pistons.. what rods do i need?
thank you that will answer some questions, but i have more


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (18T MKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T MKIV* »_what ecu do i need? do i need to make any mods to fit the head on with the coolent? do i have to have 20l 16v block parts (oil pump etc...) or can i use 1.8 block parts? i want to do a tdi crank with 9a pistons.. what rods do i need?
thank you that will answer some questions, but i have more
stock re-flashed, no, yes 2.0, ABA rebushed for smaller 9A pins.


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18t MKIV* »_what ecu do i need? do i need to make any mods to fit the head on with the coolent? do i have to have 20l 16v block parts (oil pump etc...) or can i use 1.8 block parts? i want to do a tdi crank with 9a pistons.. what rods do i need?
thank you that will answer some questions, but i have more
.

If your going to use the TDi crank, youll need custom pistons made. or you can buy the ones Eurospec Sells. You can then use the ABA rods without a hitch.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ROBHARMER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROBHARMER* »_ 
If your going to use the TDi crank, youll need custom pistons made. or you can buy the ones Eurospec Sells. You can then use the ABA rods without a hitch. 
The 9A pistons are just about the perfect size for the TDi crank and ABA rods if they are rebushed but you are limited to 82.5 unless you buy oversize 9A pistons but then you defeat the purpose.


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_The 9A pistons are just about the perfect size for the TDi crank and ABA rods if they are rebushed but you are limited to 82.5 unless you buy oversize 9A pistons but then you defeat the purpose. 

I had 9A pistons at one point and couldnt get them to work. My compression was a little to high for daily driving. its possible they were higher compression 9A pistons. i could be wrong...


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ROBHARMER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROBHARMER* »_
I had 9A pistons at one point and couldnt get them to work. My compression was a little to high for daily driving. its possible they were higher compression 9A pistons. i could be wrong...
The 9A pistons are shorter (1.2mm IIRC) than the correct ABF pistons and when used with the TDi crank (pushed up 1.35mm) they are just about perfect if the rods are rebushed to 20mm vs. 21.


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_The 9A pistons are shorter (1.2mm IIRC) than the correct ABF pistons and when used with the TDi crank (pushed up 1.35mm) they are just about perfect if the rods are rebushed to 20mm vs. 21.

Correct, Those numbers do add up. I must have been sold something different. Must say im a little pissed now.


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ROBHARMER)*

part #s are sweet but sofar all the ones im looking for arent showing up at impex like the lower timing belt cover and the front coolant flange 
i guess the upper cover is the same as the 9a ?


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Peter Tong)*

BBM sells the 16v serpentine pulley for $200, futrells has one for $100, or will machine your stock one down for $80-90. I got an underdrive pulley off ebay for like $65 which I am having machined down to fit.


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_The 9A pistons are shorter (1.2mm IIRC) than the correct ABF pistons and when used with the TDi crank (pushed up 1.35mm) they are just about perfect if the rods are rebushed to 20mm vs. 21.

so a tdi crank with rebrushed aba rodsand 9a pistons... now what compression do you think i will have... also i am thinking about boring the block to a 2.2l


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (18T MKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T MKIV* »_
so a tdi crank with rebrushed aba rodsand 9a pistons... now what compression do you think i will have... also i am thinking about boring the block to a 2.2l
approx. stock 9A compression (slightly more) so ~10.8:1. If you bore, get the Eurospec pistons or Wiseco, JE, etc. 2.2 will be hard to get with a TDi crank, it needs the 99mm crank.


----------



## alancsipke (Mar 9, 2005)

*ADAM LEE is a thief*

don't buy anything from this guy. he will take your money and give you no parts.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: ADAM LEE is a thief (alancsipke)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alancsipke* »_don't buy anything from this guy. he will take your money and give you no parts.

Which guy?


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_approx. stock 9A compression (slightly more) so ~10.8:1. If you bore, get the Eurospec pistons or Wiseco, JE, etc. 2.2 will be hard to get with a TDi crank, it needs the 99mm crank.

so i could get JE pistons and run a 10:1?
what about vr6 pistons


_Modified by 18T MKIV at 5:59 PM 11-25-2005_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (18T MKIV)*

VR-6 pistons will not work and they are 81mm bore. I would run higher than 10:1 if going NA. http://www.porttuning.com has the correct Wisecos for your combination.


----------



## Metsu (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*

Wow this is a great thread and came along at a perfect time, since I'm not sure what engine I should put in my 86 cabby.
I have a question for you guys tho, since I doubt I'll have the money (or place) to do a ABA 16v myself, would installing a full ABA to start be alright?
Install the ABA (in 2006) and when I can get the money and parts together put the 16v head/parts on? Or install a 16v, or just wait (that'd prob mean the project would wait till 07 tho)
Let me know what you guys think, its back to reading.
Good job to everyone in here. Peace


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Metsu)*

it would mean pulling the engine or getting another block to put the required parts in.


----------



## Metsu (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*

so then I should pretty much go for all or nothing, since aba first will just lead to me pulling the engine or building a 2nd and swapping the 2... That sucks.
Oh well looks like I might just got ABA then, maybe look into upgrades later. Thanks for the reply tho.
I'm learning tons in this thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 98SLEEPER (Apr 2, 2005)

ecodes.com sells the complete aba 16v engine for 3000...what advantages would i have over that engine if a) i use my own engine for the conversion (98 golf) b) how far would 3000 take me if i invested it in my engine...in comparison to the ecodes engine.


----------



## 98SLEEPER (Apr 2, 2005)

*Re: (98SLEEPER)*

thats abf 16v


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (98SLEEPER)*

Well if 3000 gets you a new engine, diddnt say so im not sure. it takes you a long way. if you were to rebuild your golf engine to similar specs, figure in the cost of all the conversion parts; head, oil pump drive gear i.m. shaft then figure in costs on rebuilding bottom and top end parts. then misc stuff like the crank pulley. then finally if you dont trust yourself to put it all together the cost of assembly. the list adds up. with a nwe engine you have peace of mind knowing VW built it and should last as long as you have it. for comparison, i bought all the parts for my conversion for about 1800 not including assembly but i did use a longer TDi crank and i also bored the block out 1.5mm. its really up to what your prefrence is. it may be more cost effective in the long run, but thats my $0.02. others may be more insightful. 


_Modified by ROBHARMER at 11:36 AM 11-28-2005_


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROBHARMER* »_Well if 3000 gets you a new engine, diddnt say so im not sure. it takes you a long way. if you were to rebuild your golf engine to similar specs, figure in the cost of all the conversion parts; head, oil pump drive gear i.m. shaft then figure in costs on rebuilding bottom and top end parts. then misc stuff like the crank pulley. then finally if you dont trust yourself to put it all together the cost of assembly. the list adds up. with a nwe engine you have peace of mind knowing VW built it and should last as long as you have it. for comparison, i bought all the parts for my conversion for about 1800 not including assembly but i did use a longer TDi crank and i also bored the block out 1.5mm. its really up to what your prefrence is. it may be more cost effective in the long run, but thats my $0.02. others may be more insightful. 

_Modified by ROBHARMER at 11:36 AM 11-28-2005_

how many horses and torque do you have?


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (18T MKIV)*

i wish i knew. its not completely finished, Not sure if i know of any rolling roads around here either once shes all running smooth ill find one and post it on up.


----------



## V-TEC this!!! (May 4, 2003)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

i have been collecting parts for this set-up aba 16v and i plan on running a turbo.....and i was trying to find which pistons i should use to acheieve a good cr......i have heard:
7:1 -> 8.5:1 using the aba pistons
8:1 -> 10.5:1 using the 9a pistons
is there someone that would be able to post up somehting with a better approximation.....
it would be nice if you had proof too!!!!
thanks


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (V-TEC this!!!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V-TEC this!!!* »_i have been collecting parts for this set-up aba 16v and i plan on running a turbo.....and i was trying to find which pistons i should use to acheieve a good cr......i have heard:
7:1 -> 8.5:1 using the aba pistons
8:1 -> 10.5:1 using the 9a pistons
is there someone that would be able to post up somehting with a better approximation.....
it would be nice if you had proof too!!!!
thanks

There should be a definate answer to that question in the beginning of this thread, there is also a link to a CR calculator in here. try searching it. i would but im lazy. From what i remember, it was 8:1 with aba pistons and 9.2:1 with 9a pistons. someone else probly knows fo' sho'. 




_Modified by ROBHARMER at 6:33 AM 11-29-2005_


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

Nevermind boredom took over and i found the calculator 
http://not2fast.wryday.com/tur...=16.5


----------



## mrk130 (Nov 9, 2003)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

i have a few questions about doing this swap. its going into an 94 or 95 golf ABA.
why do i need to use a cis fuel pump and filter? are they a higher flow rate than an A3 ABA pump and filter??
i want to turbo this engine. at the least it will be mild forced induction. does anyone have a turbo to suggest? also how do i go about getting a chip burned for this? who do i use and what info would i have to give them?
thanks


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (mrk130)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrk130* »_i have a few questions about doing this swap. its going into an 94 or 95 golf ABA.
why do i need to use a cis fuel pump and filter? are they a higher flow rate than an A3 ABA pump and filter??
i want to turbo this engine. at the least it will be mild forced induction. does anyone have a turbo to suggest? also how do i go about getting a chip burned for this? who do i use and what info would i have to give them?
thanks



You dont need to use Cis F.P. the one in your car is more than sufficient. I think that was put in there for people doing this swap in MK1's and 2's.


----------



## mrk130 (Nov 9, 2003)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROBHARMER* »_ You dont need to use Cis F.P. the one in your car is more than sufficient. I think that was put in there for people doing this swap in MK1's and 2's.

i kinda figured this. just wanted to make sure.
still need to figure out what turbo setup to use. anyone have some ideas for me?


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: (mrk130)*

what kind of ecu do i need to run?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (mrk130)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrk130* »_
i kinda figured this. just wanted to make sure.
still need to figure out what turbo setup to use. anyone have some ideas for me?

If you're going mild forced induction, then something like a K24/26 would be a good turbo (you can find them on most all Audi 5 cylinder turbo cars). That, or maybe a T3Super60 turbo.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (18T MKIV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *18T MKIV* »_what kind of ecu do i need to run?
If you're going to use the fuel system from the ABA, then use the ABA ECU. Someone like http://www.c2motorsports.net can do a custom tune for your application (N/A, forced induction, whatever). I believe they quoted me about $300-400 for a custom tune.


_Modified by Chris164935 at 12:17 PM 12-2-2005_


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

Don't waist your money on chip tuning look for a standalone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

If you think you can handle installing a Standalone, here is a nice setup: http://www.eurospeed.ca/perfor...g.htm#engine


----------



## NoGrip61 (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

Ok, so I've read this thread twice now and I still have a few questions:
1) The motronic 5.9 (obd2) engine management CAN be used, correct?








2) If I can use the obd2 management, will all the plugs and wires go to their new(or the same?) locations??
3) If I can't use the obd2 management, what can I use? I don't know anything about standalones at this point







. 
4) I've also read that chips are okay at best and don't really do the job. Is there any truth to that?
TIA











_Modified by SSjetta at 4:47 PM 12-5-2005_


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (SSjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SSjetta* »_Ok, so I've read this thread twice now and I still have a few questions:
1) The motronic 5.9 (obd2) engine management CAN be used, correct?








*Yes:*
2) If I can use the obd2 management, will all the plugs and wires go to their new(or the same?) locations??
*You will use 16v plugs and wires*
3) If I can't use the obd2 management, what can I use? I don't know anything about standalones at this point







. 
*Get to reading*
4) I've also read that chips are okay at best and don't really do the job. Is there any truth to that?
*It is possible to get lucky with chip tuning and I have found that works well for under 8-10psi but when I started pushing 20psi it was fickle at best.*
TIA









_Modified by SSjetta at 4:47 PM 12-5-2005_


----------



## NoGrip61 (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*

Thanks for clearing that up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (SSjetta)*

does anyone have any pic requests?
i got an aba 16v


----------



## NoGrip61 (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_does anyone have any pic requests?
i got an aba 16v

I'll take any pictures


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (SSjetta)*

Pics would be great. fuel system and electrical stuff.


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*

wheres the pics?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (18T MKIV)*

Not sure what type of pics you guys are looking for all my stuff is stock vw parts.



















_Modified by pozer at 2:33 PM 12-7-2005_


----------



## rabbjett (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_








_Modified by pozer at 2:33 PM 12-7-2005_

is that a 1.8t intake... is that only good for turbos?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (18T MKIV)*

IT is a 1.8t manifold I have sold all the turbo stuff to go S/C and Im driving it N/A for winter.. I never had a stock 16v manifold on and have not dynoed it N/A so I cant really say if its better but it feels like a damn Honda and if I don't pay attention I bounce off my 6900 rev limiter. I'm running an aftermarket 8v chip in it..


_Modified by pozer at 12:47 PM 12-9-2005_


----------



## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)*

will the aba pistons, rods and block have sufficient valve clearance with the 16v head?


----------



## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (Norwestralley)*

anyone?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (Norwestralley)*

16v on an ABA block moves the pistons and the valves further apart then the normal 9a and inturn lowers compression. I'm only running stock cams for now but I'm installing a set of TT sport cams in a few weeks and when I spoke to Collin @ TT about this he said I shouldn't have any problems with clearance with this cam set and it has .443" of lift.. I will post if I break anything LOL


----------



## Horus (Sep 28, 2005)

which Intake Manifold would be better the 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v?


----------



## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (Horus)*

both will work the same. i suggest that you try and find one from a scorrocco. it puts the throttle body on the other side giving you more room to run intercooler piping. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Metsu (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Norwestralley)*

Hey guys I have a question, what would you estimate the complete engine price of a mild boost FI 16v ABA? 
I have hopefully atleast 1 year before I really want to do the swap and a year or two would give me plenty of time to source parts and spend smaller ammounts of cash instead of a lump sum.
I know asking for prices on here is tough bc of many factors but I'll just go with the "above average" price and work from there.
Thanks
BTW this thread is doing very well, everytime I read it I learn more and I'm not through all the pages yet







to all


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (Metsu)*

I did keep a bit of a price list..
http://takeit2thetrack.net/pozer/16vt/16vt.html


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (SSjetta)*

You can use a piggyback system to fine tune your setup, with a chip for bigger injectors and less timing. You can use the piggy back without the chip but it will limit how big of an injector you can use with the stock chip due to the injector pulse being to big for it to idle well on big injectors. You may want a vr6 Maf in there too to flow more air but with a good piggyback like SMT-6 you can convert to a MAP based setup (with a MAP sensor, of course) and the SMT-6 is only around $300. 
TT has a chip for 42# injectors that is a good base to start from. Even with a piggyback you may have to pull your O2 sensor out to stay slightly rich under boost, as it will try to keep you at 14.7:1 all the time. 
C2 has started work on some chips and I may go to them when I finally get it all together as Jeff can do a great chip tune and he may even have it written to keep the O2 sensor plugged in by then.


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Do I need to pull the block to pull the intermediate shaft out?


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*

midnight bump
Im in the middle of this project so if anyone has info on this let me know


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*

yes.


----------



## Diggatron (Sep 4, 2004)

Ok, I got a quick one. Who has a 9a Int. either really cheap....or free?


----------



## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*oil pump?*

if no aba dizzy is used....what drives the oil pump?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: oil pump? (Norwestralley)*

the 16V gear setup.


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Metsu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Metsu* »_Hey guys I have a question, what would you estimate the complete engine price of a mild boost FI 16v ABA? 
I have hopefully atleast 1 year before I really want to do the swap and a year or two would give me plenty of time to source parts and spend smaller ammounts of cash instead of a lump sum.
I know asking for prices on here is tough bc of many factors but I'll just go with the "above average" price and work from there.
Thanks
BTW this thread is doing very well, everytime I read it I learn more and I'm not through all the pages yet







to all

I started collecting parts for this swap in August. Right now, I have ABA block (bought complete OBDI engine), P&P'd 16v head, complete unassembled stock 16v valvetrain, turbo manifold, and intercooler and I'm about $1500 deep. I figured if I didn't get the P&P work, I could have saved between $500-$700, not including the additional $200-300 I haven't yet spent on a valve job/head buildup (or the tools I would need to do it myself)
I still need a turbo, fuel rail, intake mani, exhaust plumbing, BOV, IC plumbing, and megasquirt.
It's not the big ticket items that make up the majority of the cost, it's all the nickel-and-dime stuff like IM Shafts, pulleys, belts, head studs, oil pumps, injectors, wiring, etc... the 15 or 20 different parts you need that are in the $50-$150 range that add up real quick.
I would say you need about $5000 bare minimum to do this from scratch and not end up with a car that runs like ass (or worse, doesn't run). I like to think I am doing things as cheap as possible (I use used parts whenever I can), my only splurge being a P&P job. 
If I'm at all lucky, this car will be running by Waterfest.


----------



## Diggatron (Sep 4, 2004)

Ok, let me try this again because my spelling obviously sucks. Who has a 9A intermediate shaft for sale?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

This is one heck of a long read, good info.








Gota love the questions that get asked over and over and over...








So we have some useful parts in stock that help with this conversion.
We will have other useful parts for this available soon.
Our 16V rail is on-sale right now.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=141








Here are the injector seats for the intake manifold.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...=1222








We also have a billet crank pulley that has the correct 6mm offset.
We also have the stock ABA crank pulleys in stock that have been shaved for $109.99 Just call in if you need one.
The light weight billet unit is a nicer solution.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242








Here is the distributor block off for those that want to run the ABA stocker in the block.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242








Here is a billet MAF housing upgrade.
I should have the pic up by the end of this week.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242
We also have the block off breather plates in stock for $59
You can also use a 2.0L Beetle valve cover breather set up, we also stock these.




_Modified by JBETZ at 3:34 PM 12-26-2005_


----------



## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (Diggatron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Diggatron* »_Ok, let me try this again because my spelling obviously sucks. Who has a 9A intermediate shaft for sale?

same question,.. the 9a Intermediate shaft and gear is one of the only things holding me back from doing this swap,. where can you find them,., can you find them new anywhere?


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (86WolfsburgGLI)*

there are like 2 whole 9a blocks at the fresno JY evan...
why do you think i told you about them like a month ago... there you go, pistons and IM shaft, and the gear and block off plate...


----------



## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

well ****,. lets go,. u think they will be open newyears eve, .


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (86WolfsburgGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86WolfsburgGLI* »_
same question,.. the 9a Intermediate shaft and gear is one of the only things holding me back from doing this swap,. where can you find them,., can you find them new anywhere?

Probably couldn't find them new anywhere. However, these parts aren't really under a lot of stress on the motor, so any used one should more than likely be in very good shape.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

These used to be in stock, more on order and now listed on our site.
We should have the first batches in about three weeks.
They have the 16V reliefs cut in for extra security.
Drop in forged approx. 8.5:1 with the 16V head installed.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=116
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...r=202











_Modified by JBETZ at 11:17 AM 12-28-2005_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (86WolfsburgGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86WolfsburgGLI* »_
same question,.. the 9a Intermediate shaft and gear is one of the only things holding me back from doing this swap,. where can you find them,., can you find them new anywhere?

I am in the process of designing a 16V dizzy drive gear that will bolt on the ABA intermediate shaft.
I am also designing a billet gizmo that will hold the oil pump drive gear so you can keep the ABA intermediate shaft and oil pump installed. 
So this will eliminate the need for the 16V intermediate shaft / oil pump conversion parts.
There is not enough room to run a dizzy in the block with a 16V head.


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I talked to someone at Bahn Brenner a few weeks ago and they told me they were working on a bracket for the Mk3 FPR to fit with the fuel rail? Is there any news on that or is that even true?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_I talked to someone at Bahn Brenner a few weeks ago and they told me they were working on a bracket for the Mk3 FPR to fit with the fuel rail? Is there any news on that or is that even true?

Yes, we are developing the ABA 8V fuel rail.
I think there are a couple of parts ahead of this project.
The design work has been done for over a year now.


----------



## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I am in the process of designing a 16V dizzy drive gear that will bolt on the ABA intermediate shaft.
I am also designing a billet gizmo that will hold the oil pump drive gear so you can keep the ABA intermediate shaft and oil pump installed. 
So this will eliminate the need for the 16V intermediate shaft / oil pump conversion parts.
There is not enough room to run a dizzy in the block with a 16V head.
 hmm,. put me down for one,. lol beats the hell outa going into a junk yard and taking an engine apart forever just to get the shaft and gear


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Yes, we are developing the ABA 8V fuel rail.
I think there are a couple of parts ahead of this project.
The design work has been done for over a year now.

Any chance the adapter for the mk3 FPR will fit the 16v rail? And how soon is that going to be available. Im in the middle of an ABA 16v hybrid and want to know if I need to buy the older style FPR or not. I already have your 16v rail.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_
Any chance the adapter for the mk3 FPR will fit the 16v rail? And how soon is that going to be available. Im in the middle of an ABA 16v hybrid and want to know if I need to buy the older style FPR or not. I already have your 16v rail.

Yes you can use the new ABA / 1.8T fpr adpt. that we are making with the 16V rail, no problem.


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

did you have any idea when that might be available?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_did you have any idea when that might be available?

Whenever I quote time we are always behind the ball.
Honestly I would guess from 6-8 weeks right now.
It may be even longer.
I think ATP has one that you can buy right now for around $70 bucks.
We have several mandrel bending jobs and CNC jobs ahead of this on the schedule. Unfortunately we only have so much mfg. capacity and really need to stick to a priority schedule.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I thought you had to use a 9A oil pump because the ABA oil pump couldn't flow as much. But I guess that is untrue?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_I thought you had to use a 9A oil pump because the ABA oil pump couldn't flow as much. But I guess that is untrue?

I don't see this being a problem.
The ABA intermediate gear is larger than the modified 16V drive gear.
So the pump will be spinning a bit faster.
I think the pumps are nearly the same in size / volume.
We will put this to the test soon.
Anyone out there running in this configuration right now that can chime in?


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

wow! can rember when this thread was only 3 or 4 pages long! guess i got some reading to do


----------



## CL2GL (Aug 18, 2005)

Been reading this forum, im loving it, i want a turbo project and i think this is the one. im not sure about a couple of things: 1) can this setup ABA16v is used in mk2 GTI? 2) what wiring harness is used ABA or 16v Digi, and 3) if it is ABA does it just connect into fuse box or have to cut and splice, 
just havent seen this information in the post, maybe not lookin hard enought, thanks alot tho


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (CL2GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CL2GL* »_Been reading this forum, im loving it, i want a turbo project and i think this is the one. im not sure about a couple of things: 1) can this setup ABA16v is used in mk2 GTI? 2) what wiring harness is used ABA or 16v Digi, and 3) if it is ABA does it just connect into fuse box or have to cut and splice, 
just havent seen this information in the post, maybe not lookin hard enought, thanks alot tho

Yes, it will fit your MkII
Run digi 1, megasquirt or 034


----------



## CL2GL (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

what is 034. and how difficult and expensive would it be to install a mega squirt system


----------



## 86WolfsburgGLI (Apr 19, 2004)

034 EFI = fully tuneable standalone fuel management, uses your stock sensors,. easyer than hell to hook up the sensors & install,. the semi hard part i sgeting it to run,. same with mega squirt though,. me and my friend (the 4ork) got his 8v x flow turbo runing in about a day,. not to hard,. http://www.034motorsport.com/


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

John, there is plenty of room for a block distributor if you use a 90 degree distributor cap setup.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_John, there is plenty of room for a block distributor if you use a 90 degree distributor cap setup.

Call me stupid, what do you mean... what 90 degree dizzy?
*jwatts just busted 300 whp all over the place on this engine combo running digi1*
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2367040
Now that rocks!
I've got mine going together on a stand right now, cant wait.
Jason, good to see you in here, thanks for the input.


----------



## alancsipke (Mar 9, 2005)

*unrelated*

sorry to bug you; but i was recently ripped off on this site by a guy that lives in OR named Adam Lee; wondering if maybe you knew him?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: unrelated (alancsipke)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alancsipke* »_sorry to bug you; but i was recently ripped off on this site by a guy that lives in OR named Adam Lee; wondering if maybe you knew him?









I just moved to Or from the Seattle area.
Sorry I don't know him.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: unrelated (JBETZ)*

The FIAT and Peugeot dizzy caps have 90* posts rather than up (0*). It hink there is a pic/pn in this thread. I think JWatts is using 9A pistons on rebushed rods.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: unrelated (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_The FIAT and Peugeot dizzy caps have 90* posts rather than up (0*). It hink there is a pic/pn in this thread. I think JWatts is using 9A pistons on rebushed rods. 

Oh I think I saw that pic back on page 1.4 million.








Could someone bring it up, I actually didn't see this.
How about a part # for the 90* distributor and the longer 1.8T belt please?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: unrelated (JBETZ)*

I may have gotten it mixed up with the 20v hybrid thread. I think it is in there.


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

I have a ABA block bored to 83.5mm With apr main studs installed. Also a set of H beam rods, Plus alot of other goodies.
Im me for details.


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

aba 16v SPECIFIC short runner intake manifolds are now available thru USRT as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: unrelated (JBETZ)*

The distributor cap for a block mounted dizzy: 1235 522 259 = actual part #.
700 695 (12.860 = number on box


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: unrelated (JBETZ)*

taken from page 7, The 1.8T timing belt is made by gates, the 153 teeth one (the longer one of the two) is part number: 90153x20


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

any chance of getting a sticky on this yet? cleaning it up a bit?


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

here it is- the 16vaba specific USRT sri








obd1 vr6 tb, uses 1.8T fuel rail


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: unrelated (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_The distributor cap for a block mounted dizzy: 1235 522 259 = actual part #.
700 695 (12.860 = number on box










that thing is awesome! I think i'm gonna get that just to be different and use it on my 8v!


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: unrelated (JediKGB)*

if I go to the parts yard, what markings will I find on the engine to identify it as an early ABA obdI engine.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: unrelated (Stroked1.8t)*

find a car with a 95 or earlier production date stamped on the drivers door frame. They are easy to spot cars as they have the black textured mouldings and early ones don't have airbags. many early golf and jetta's are also automatics so the engine should be in better shape. There is a production date on the engine somewhere, but good luck finding it and deciphering it without pulling the engine first.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: unrelated (all-starr-me)*

ok, found a block and bought it. what about pistons and rods. I've heard that the forged ABA bottom end will stand up to 500 Crank HP. If this is the case, then upgrading internals wouldn't be a concern. 
Got my eye on a forged aba crank. Someone give suggestions on a route to take to make 400wheel with an aba block as a starting point.


----------



## abfjet (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

I have every part complete you need to do the aba 16v. they have a 98' white jetta gl wrapped around them. the set up is non turbo. It broke the trans for the second time. It drives, however the pinion shaft in the trans is grinding on the ring gear in the diff. All can be yours for 3000.00 us FIRM

If you search my posts you can find the specs on the car.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (abfjet)*

I'm on the hunt for the correct timing belt.
We are machining the proto dizzy widget and sprocket today.
I should have pics up next week.
Also hunting down that Bosch 90 degree dizzy.
Bosch has discontinued the above provided part #
Does anyone have a newer part # for the 90 degree dizzy?
By the way I love this thread.
Nothing better than a cheap, strong and high hp potential VW engine combination!


----------



## abfjet (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

The 150 tooth 1.8t belt is the one I have on mine. Before I discovered this one I bought an abf belt from Techtonics.
You can modify a 9a distributor to work with the odb systems. You have to change the 9a hall sender with the aba one and the trigger wheel,1window v.s. the 4 window. I also installed a mechanical viton seal in the housing prior to assembly. I also have a spare.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (abfjet)*

Well we successfully modified a 9A 16V intermediate shaft drive sprocket to work with the ABA shaft.
Our little billet dizzy gizzy that eliminates the ABA distributor and drives the oil pump is almost done. This is so you can run the 16V distributor with ABA pump and intermediate shaft. Or you can run no dizzy and use our billet 16V distributor block off on stand alone.
*I looked at running the distributor in the block again.
Even with a 90 degree cap it will not fit.
Unless I'm crazy you cannot do this 90 degree dizzy trick.
I'm about 110% that this will not work.*


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

90* cap works fine with the 20V head and Oettinger head.


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Well we successfully modified a 9A 16V intermediate shaft drive sprocket to work with the ABA shaft.
Our little billet dizzy gizzy that eliminates the ABA distributor and drives the oil pump is almost done. This is so you can run the 16V distributor with ABA pump and intermediate shaft. Or you can run no dizzy and use our billet 16V distributor block off on stand alone.
*I looked at running the distributor in the block again.
Even with a 90 degree cap it will not fit.
Unless I'm crazy you cannot do this 90 degree dizzy trick.
I'm about 110% that this will not work.*

this is GREAT news! so if I buy your billet crank pulley and your "Dizzy Gizzy" (I like that lol) to run the ABA IM shaft and oil pump... I can run my Mk3 alternator and waterpump and be done! (right??)


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (derekste)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekste* »_
this is GREAT news! so if I buy your billet crank pulley and your "Dizzy Gizzy" (I like that lol) to run the ABA IM shaft and oil pump... I can run my Mk3 alternator and water pump and be done! (right??)

You got it.
We modified a factory 16V 9A sprocket and made a spacer bushing.
All you need is a 16V head and distributor.
You also of course need the 16v cams, cam sprocket, special modified crank pulley and the 16V timing belt gear behind the crank pulley. You will also need an intake manifold, the longer timing belt and address the t-body pending on your application.
I think that's about it.


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_You got it.
We modified a factory 16V 9A sprocket and made a spacer bushing.
All you need is a 16V head and distributor.

hoping to do EDIS, so I'll be acquiring your 16v dizzy blockoff plate.









_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
You also of course need the 16v cams, cam sprocket, *special modified crank pulley and the 16V timing belt gear behind the crank pulley.* You will also need an intake manifold, the longer timing belt and address the t-body pending on your application.
I think that's about it.

special modified crank pulley == your billet part








and what is this about a 16V timing gear?
(sometimes it's a bit hard for me to picture how all this stuff goes together without having the parts in front of you)


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (derekste)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekste* »_
hoping to do EDIS, so I'll be acquiring your 16v dizzy blockoff plate.








special modified crank pulley == your billet part








and what is this about a 16V timing gear?
(sometimes it's a bit hard for me to picture how all this stuff goes together without having the parts in front of you) 

You can use a modified crank pulley or our billet unit.
We have the factory modified ABA crank pulleys for $110
You need the timing belt drive gear that goes behind the crank pulley.
I know, always running out to the shop to look at engines


----------



## tekniq511 (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
You can use a modified crank pulley or our billet unit.


Do you have an underdrive version of this pulley? 
Or can I get an underdrive pulley for a 16V and use it?
Thanks 16V Guru! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## seatibiza (Jan 5, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

hi guys
i just want to know if i put a 16v head on 2E (ADY) block,will i got a low Compression ratio without using a Low Compression Head Gasket?? coz i want to add IHI turbo? and which one is much better to put 16v head onto a 2L 8V block(wiyh 8v piston) or 16v head with 9a block with using a Low Compression Head Gasket to drop the compression?? plz try to give me full information about that















i want to make a very strong 16v 2l turbo engine!!!


----------



## bigteal (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (seatibiza)*

i love this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i need to get off my ass and start collecting parts. i just got the 8v running damn strong, and i want to get rid of it now


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (bigteal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigteal* »_i love this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i need to get off my ass and start collecting parts. i just got the 8v running damn strong, and i want to get rid of it now










I have a 16v head (cleaned and rebuilt) with distributor (brand new) for sale. Check out the link in my sig if you're interested. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (seatibiza)*


_Quote, originally posted by *seatibiza* »_hi guys
i just want to know if i put a 16v head on 2E (ADY) block,will i got a low Compression ratio without using a Low Compression Head Gasket?? coz i want to add IHI turbo? and which one is much better to put 16v head onto a 2L 8V block(wiyh 8v piston) or 16v head with 9a block with using a Low Compression Head Gasket to drop the compression?? plz try to give me full information about that















i want to make a very strong 16v 2l turbo engine!!!

I'm not sure about most all 8v motors, but if the motor you are talking about is similar to an ABA or 3A (it's an Audi engine), then yes, putting a 16v head on a 2E will yield a lower compression without having to use a low compression head gasket.
Personally, I would go with using an 8v motor (such as an ABA or 3A block) with a 16v head to get lower compression for turbo application.
Now, if you want the make "a very strong 16v 2L turbo engine", I'd try to find a 3A block. It's got forged internals from the factory. If you can't find one of those, then you'll either have to find an early ABA block (it has forged internals, I think) or a 2E block (if that has forged internals) or purchase forged pistons and rods from a company that sells them (like Eurospec or JE). Hope that makes some since.


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

why are you all looking for the 90 degree dist cap? you can run the dist off the 16v head. 
The dist cap is a Oettinger part for their 16v heads. Its the same parts used on some Fiats i think. also on the Oettinger engines used the matching dist and was shorter to clear the intake mani.

Edit: what all do you want me to clean up in the main post? Its about as best as it can get without going interactive. Also if anyone needs any help PM me.


_Modified by German_Muscle at 6:44 PM 1-9-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_why are you all looking for the 90 degree dist cap? you can run the dist off the 16v head. 
_Modified by German_Muscle at 6:44 PM 1-9-2006_

We were led to believe this cap would work in the ABA w/ 16V head.
It will not fit from what I've experienced.
No big deal as you say the 16V distributor works just fine.
I am also uable to get Gates to set us up with the timing belt when using this part #
Gates 153 tooth
90153x20
Does anyone have a good part # or exact application?
We now have the Dizzy Gizzy and Sprocket Drive gear prototyped.
The Dizzy Gizzy CNC run is a few weeks out on the schedule although we are taking orders now.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242











_Modified by JBETZ at 11:37 AM 1-10-2006_


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

It says in the discription for the dizzy adapter that you need to remove your ABA gear and put it on the adapter. How you get the gear off the ABA dizzy?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Incognito* »_It says in the discription for the dizzy adapter that you need to remove your ABA gear and put it on the adapter. How you get the gear off the ABA dizzy?

It is held in with a little pin.
You can punch it out.
We are supplying a new pin with this part.


----------



## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

great too see this kind of stuff john! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242











LOL Dizzy Gizzy!! I like it!


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
We were led to believe this cap would work in the ABA w/ 16V head.
It will not fit from what I've experienced.
No big deal as you say the 16V distributor works just fine.
I am also uable to get Gates to set us up with the timing belt when using this part #
Gates 153 tooth
90153x20
Does anyone have a good part # or exact application?
We now have the Dizzy Gizzy and Sprocket Drive gear prototyped.
The Dizzy Gizzy CNC run is a few weeks out on the schedule although we are taking orders now.
_Modified by JBETZ at 11:37 AM 1-10-2006_

Ahh ok. I think its badass that you all are making so many parts for the aba/16v swap. 
Eurosport sells ABA/16v timing belts brand new actually. thats where i got my belt. Its the ABF belt to be exact and works the best IMO.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_
Ahh ok. I think its badass that you all are making so many parts for the aba/16v swap. 
Eurosport sells ABA/16v timing belts brand new actually. that's where i got my belt. Its the ABF belt to be exact and works the best IMO.

I have an ABF belt on the way, thanks
We think that this engine combo is bad ass and that's why we are making parts for it








The Dizzy Gizzy and sprockets will save people some cash.
Think about this you can ship a 16V head across the entire country for about $20 bucks. Not to many wrecking yards will pull the intermediate shaft, gears and pump without selling the full motor. So you can source ABA blocks anywhere next door throughout the US and then just order your 16V head and distributor from the wreckers. It will potentially save you the freight costs on a full 16V long block and the time of installing these parts. I love this engine combination. 
Nothing better than a VW engine combo with excellent rod bore combo, 2.0L low compression and a head that flows like a 20V for less than half the money of a 1.8T used. Plus you can still completely rebuild it all for under $1500 bucks and make well over 300 whp on digi 1 or just run it all with used parts for under $1000 bucks *Now that is one kick ass VW engine conversion!!!*


_Modified by JBETZ at 10:47 AM 1-11-2006_


----------



## fastbanana (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Any of you out there run a 8v 2.0 (aba) vrs a 16v 2.0 (aba)? what is the power differnance and is it worth the time and money involved?


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

i built mine from the ground up went all out on everything(at the time) i may haft to replace some of my stuff with your nicer stuff. I dynod like 520 something at the wheels on my ABA/16v. This engine combo is very very awesome. i just wish VW made a little better head like the oettinger 16v head. a better head would make alot of difference. but to do that you haft to source a oettinger, spend alot of money and risk something happening or have a custom head CNCd which is insane expensive. If only VW would made the new 2.0 16v FSI Turbo head fit the old style blocks


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

Nice power!!!
What are you running for management?



_Modified by JBETZ at 7:41 AM 3-13-2007_


----------



## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

did you run a different fuel pump or will a stock aba pump work?
also does anyone know if the atp exhaust manifold w/ turbo will fit in a 98 jetta?


_Modified by Norwestralley at 2:45 AM 1-12-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Norwestralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Norwestralley* »_ did you run a different fuel pump or will a stock aba pump work?
also does anyone know if the atp exhaust manifold w/ turbo will fit in a 98 jetta?

_Modified by Norwestralley at 2:45 AM 1-12-2006_

You should be just fine with the stock pump.
Depends on how much power you are going for.
If shooting for over 300whp you might want to use an Aeromotive unit or something comparable.


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Nice power!!!
What are you running for management?
_Modified by JBETZ at 9:30 PM 1-11-2006_

Autronic SM4


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

Got some deep pockets huh, like a 2300 dollar ecu, on a 520whp aba16vt, not too shabby!


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_
Autronic SM4

Will you sponsor me


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

No really that thing sounds sick and I'm jealous.
Hope to have my 2.0L ABA 16VT ready soon








I'm just trying to figure out what car to drop it now.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_No really that thing sounds sick and I'm jealous.
Hope to have my 2.0L ABA 16VT ready soon








I'm just trying to figure out what car to drop it now.

Sounds good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif What turbo are you planning on running? If you don't mind me asking.


----------



## seatibiza (Jan 5, 2006)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

CAN U HELP??
I want to know if i have to make space (shape) on the piustons for valves when i put 16V head on ABA block?? i mean can i put the 16v head onto 2l 8v block without doind anything in pistons?? coz i noteced that there is space for valves on the 9a pistons!!!
one more question...what is the best 16v head?? kr , pl (1.8) or 9a , abf (2.0) ?? thanks man


----------



## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (seatibiza)*

its been done.. im pretty sure you'll be ok.
im going to use a 9a head on an ABA block


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (seatibiza)*


_Quote, originally posted by *seatibiza* »_CAN U HELP??
I want to know if i have to make space (shape) on the piustons for valves when i put 16V head on ABA block?? i mean can i put the 16v head onto 2l 8v block without doind anything in pistons?? coz i noteced that there is space for valves on the 9a pistons!!!
one more question...what is the best 16v head?? kr , pl (1.8) or 9a , abf (2.0) ?? thanks man

No you can run ABA pistons with the 16v head without any problems. The best 16v head is a 1.8L because they flow more stock and are actually able to be ported out more. 2L heads have bigger water jackets so you cant port them as much and they have smaller ports stock.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_No really that thing sounds sick and I'm jealous.
Hope to have my 2.0L ABA 16VT ready soon








I'm just trying to figure out what car to drop it now.

can you tell me if I would need the dizzy gizzy or your custom 16v IM pulley for my aba 16v setup if I an planing on using coil packs and 
standalone.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_
Sounds good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif What turbo are you planning on running? If you don't mind me asking.

I've got a GT28RS sitting on my desk. 
Building up a nice high flow manifold for it right now.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_
can you tell me if I would need the dizzy gizzy or your custom 16v IM pulley for my aba 16v setup if I an planing on using coil packs and 
standalone. 

You only need the dizzy gizzy if you are planning to run the ABA intermediate shaft and ABA oil pump.
You can definitely use our 16V billet distributor block off.


----------



## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

Anybody have the PN for the TDI crank?


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I would send you an IM over this, but you don't receive them.
if I were using standalone then I don't need either 16v distributor in the head or aba distributor in the block, correct? I will be blocking both off, correct?
if this is right then would I need the aba IM shaft, aba oil pump and the custom IM pulley that your company sells? not the dizzy gizzy? 

edit: I don't understand why I would need a custom part in order to run the factory ABA oil pump and IM shaft? Don't these parts work in a stock ABA engine? I was under the impression that the IM pulley was the problem. So people would run all 16v parts (IM shaft, oil pump) so they could utilze the 16v IM pulley? Damn I am lost.


_Modified by Stroked1.8t at 10:49 PM 1-16-2006_


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

I believe it has to do with the wider 16v belt, belt is 6mm or something wider


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

edit: I don't understand why I would need a custom part in order to run the factory ABA oil pump and IM shaft? Don't these parts work in a stock ABA engine? I was under the impression that the IM pulley was the problem. So people would run all 16v parts (IM shaft, oil pump) so they could utilze the 16v IM pulley? Damn I am lost.
_Modified by Stroked1.8t at 10:49 PM 1-16-2006_[/QUOTE]
why dp u need their stuff? see below...

_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_
if I were using standalone then I don't need either 16v distributor in the head or aba distributor in the block, correct? I will be blocking both off, correct? 

cuz when u remove the distributor from an 8v u remove the thing that drives the oil pump....the bottom of the dizzy is notched to spin the oil pump...the 16v's have a little gear that runs off of the im shaft...


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
We now have the Dizzy Gizzy and Sprocket Drive gear prototyped.
The Dizzy Gizzy CNC run is a few weeks out on the schedule although we are taking orders now.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242











wow guys, you get these 2 parts and the 16v crank sprocket and you don't even have to pull the aba block out of the car to do the Hybrid! damn good job! that'll make it alot easier for people who either a) already swaped in the ABA block in a mk2 or b) for the mk3 people!






















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
mad props.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (JediKGB)*

thanks for breaking it down for me. 
so use the stock aba IM shaft, modified BB 16v IM pulley and custom BB dizzy gizzy and stock aba oil pump?


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

With the timing belt being the main hurdle on running the ABA IM shaft, what about redesigning, or using a tensioner of a different diameter to work with a longer, or shorter belt. IIRC, I have the 151 tooth belt on my setup with the 9A IM shaft, cog and oil pump. It's a pretty tight fit as-is. I think there are some 154 or 155 tooth belts out there for the 1.8T with the correct pitch. Some of the guys building 20/20 setups have used a Honda Prelude belt with the correct length on a slightly different pitch and had good success, but I'd be weary of the teeth wearing off of the belt over time.


----------



## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (JediKGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JediKGB* »_

wow guys, you get these 2 parts and the 16v crank sprocket and you don't even have to pull the aba block out of the car to do the Hybrid! damn good job! that'll make it alot easier for people who either a) already swaped in the ABA block in a mk2 or b) for the mk3 people!






















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
mad props.









If you use these new parts from Bahnbrenner what all do u need from the 16v other than the cyl head and dissy?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (Black86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black86GTI* »_
If you use these new parts from Bahnbrenner what all do u need from the 16v other than the cyl head and dissy?

You need 16v studs. And, depending on your setup, possibly a 16v throttle body. Also, if you plan on running MK3 accessories, you'll need the modified crank pulley.


----------



## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_
You need 16v studs. And, depending on your setup, possibly a 16v throttle body. Also, if you plan on running MK3 accessories, you'll need the modified crank pulley.

all i need is to drive an alternator so i still need the 16v crank pulley?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Yeah, I believe so.


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

If you decide to run the ABA accessories, then the coolant fitting should be modded (1.8 16V al) or a new one should be built.









If you need the coolant temp sensor from a Digi setup, a spacer and one of the coolant necks from VW should do (don't have part #) I overbuilt this one out of 1" stock, but 1/2" seems sufficient on two others that I made up.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jwatts)*

We also have this part in stock for you digi 1 guys.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242








This should also work for this
This part comes with a beaded end on both sides.
I think our web guy snapped this pic before it got on the bead former.










_Modified by JBETZ at 3:10 PM 1-17-2006_


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
This should also work for this
This part comes with a beaded end on both sides.
I think our web guy snapped this pic before it got on the bead former.









Couldnt find this one the site, mabye im blind


----------



## bighauler1 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

guys, I just got that first BBM peice, and the fit is awesome. Props to to BBM for vision to get into this!! Now if only the dizzy blockoff would get here..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (bighauler1)*

Somehow I got the wrong timing belt for my project. It says on it that its a 152 tooth belt which makes it too long. I can spin the tensioner all the way around by hand with this belt. It says here that I need the 150 tooth belt but loosing 2 teeth dooesn't seem like it would do enough. Can some one help me out here, I really want to get this finished this weekend.


----------



## push (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*

on my car i'm using the 16v tensioner and a 150 tooth 1.8t belt from an early AEB 1.8t A4 and it fit mint. its tight getting the belt on but its on and works fine.


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

i <3 BBM for all of these awesome parts they are making for this setup. Keep em coming.
I did come up with one thing that i wish someone made.
One of these except for the 2.0L 16v intake manifold and with a ABA throttle body flange.









_Modified by German_Muscle at 1:40 PM 1-18-2006_


_Modified by German_Muscle at 1:42 PM 1-18-2006_


----------



## bighauler1 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

i agree about that 16v/aba flange dealy, but Im just gonna use the passat auto tb i have


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (bighauler1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bighauler1* »_i agree about that 16v/aba flange dealy, but Im just gonna use the passat auto tb i have

We Make It!
On the shelf right NOW!!!
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...=1763


----------



## bighauler1 (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I think the website is lacking a bit or your inventory, I am sure there are a bunch of things i have needed that I dont see


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
We Make It!
On the shelf right NOW!!!
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...=1763









If you put that on a 2L 16v intake mani its making it worse cause the TB is then very close to the rain tray and its a even worse bend for charge piping. I meant you should make one that curves around like the one i posted a pic of.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

I can make up one of those, do you need one?


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I can make up one of those, do you need one?

Not anymore i bought a short runner. It would just make it easier to use the 2L 16v intake manifold with the ABA TB and not haft to move the MAF.
Here is a quick drawing.










_Modified by German_Muscle at 2:09 PM 1-19-2006_


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (LouderLowerFaster)*

ok guys... so i got a ABA block and some 16v heads i bought from a guy for $180 all together... here are some pics....

































I am planning to build this engine for a 1990 corrado.... my question is...

_Quote, originally posted by *LouderLowerFaster* »_Ok so just let me get this straight, if I was to swap a 16v head onto my aba block I would need all this?:
Pistons: 2.0L 16v
Head: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v
Throttle Body: G60 or Automatic 16v
Intake Manifold: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v 
Timing Belt: Eurosport ABA 16v Or OEM 150 Tooth 1.8T
Idler/Tensioner Pulley: 9A 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump: 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump Drive: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Crank Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Belt: 2.0L 16v
Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v 
Fuel Pump: Rabbit CIS
Fuel Filter: CIS
FPR: G60
Spark Plugs: 16v
Distributer: 16v
Spark Plug Wires: 16v
Distributer Block Off: TT Block Off Plate
Im guessing that you cant do this swap with $400?


i don't really care about the budget... for now... 
but is this it so far engine wise.... will my 5 speed thansmision from the 1.8 8v work? also BBM sells this pistons... http://bahnbrenner.com/media/p...d=116 will this pistons work or would i be better off buying 16v pistons... what is the difference tho... CR with the 16v ones...
!!!thanks!!!

_Modified by evildorito at 9:39 PM 1-22-2006_


_Modified by evildorito at 9:40 PM 1-22-2006_


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

not to crap on BBM but if your gonna get pistons i would get a set of Wisecos. If you want low compression get 8v pistons, if you want high compression get the 16v pistons.


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (evildorito)*

wristpin diameter and compression height are the main differences. the aba uses 21 mm wristpins and the 9a uses 20mm. If the aba rods are rebushed, then you can use the 9a pistons. The piston will sit lower in the bore so that the copmression ratio will end up being in the 9:1 range (I forget exactly where). The quench area might not be that great, but it makes for a nice all-around motor. I had that setup for a little while







.


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_not to crap on BBM but if your gonna get pistons i would get a set of Wisecos. If you want low compression get 8v pistons, if you want high compression get the 16v pistons.

yeah i decided to get the 16v pistons







... you said wisecos has some? how are their pistons... were you able to get the bushings for the 9a at the dealer? if so... what did you ask them for... would you happen to have a part number or something so i can make things go smooth... would it make it cheaper just to get stock 16v pistons from the dealer? i'd have to find out huh... its cool i'll find out tomorrow







they know me there lol..


_Modified by evildorito at 8:14 AM 1-23-2006_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (evildorito)*

http://www.porttuning.com is a Wiseco dealer and has most applications in stock. A machine shop installs bushings (not from the dealer) with the correct o.d. and i.d. for your piston/rod combo.


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_http://www.porttuning.com is a Wiseco dealer and has most applications in stock. A machine shop installs bushings (not from the dealer) with the correct o.d. and i.d. for your piston/rod combo.

so you guys recomend wisecos huh... i was looking at their site... they got some nice stuff... i was looking in to this pistons... http://www.porttuning.com/prod...age=1 or this http://www.porttuning.com/prod...age=1 not sure... one is a 83mm the other 83.5... any big difference between those two.. the both put out the same CR just slightly diff in size... anything i should know







yeah i'll talk to my machine shop about putting the pistons on the engine with bushings and all... thanks...


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (evildorito)*

Can anybody recommend a good 16v force induction cam setup?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (evildorito)*

those are for a 9A. he has some for an ABA 16v. you may need to email or call him.


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (evildorito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evildorito* »_so you guys recomend wisecos huh... i was looking at their site... they got some nice stuff... i was looking in to this pistons... http://www.porttuning.com/prod...age=1 or this http://www.porttuning.com/prod...age=1 not sure... one is a 83mm the other 83.5... any big difference between those two.. the both put out the same CR just slightly diff in size... anything i should know







yeah i'll talk to my machine shop about putting the pistons on the engine with bushings and all... thanks...

just a bit more displacement from the increased bore, other than that they should be the same.


----------



## Tattoo Collector (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: (psykokid)*

Ok. So I built a nice ABA bottom end for my counterflow head and it is slow. I was thinking of going to a 16 valve head. I have a fully built, balanced, blueprinted 93 or 94 ABA block with forged JE pistons, oil squirters, the whole nine yards. 
I don't really feel like going through the ordeal of turbo'ing this car. What will my compression ratio be with a 2.0 or 1.8 16 valve head on it? I don't know what possessed me to do a damn counterflow head. I think I was temporarily retarded!
I'm going to be megasquirting the car and I figured that I might as well change things while I can.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Tattoo Collector)*

16v 1.8 head, put a turbo on it, no intercooler, 4psi of boost
it won't be as slow.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Tattoo Collector)*

if they are 10:1 pistons you would have ~8.2:1 with a 16V head.


----------



## Tattoo Collector (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Ugh! So this is going to be a slow N/A 16V.
What's stock compression on a 16V motor?
Maybe I'll just stick a ported ABA head on it with my cam in a custom intake manifold or something.
Oh, the pistons are a stock style piston. They are just lightweight and forged.
If I am going to turbo the car, I wouldn't bother doing it and not run at least 10 psi. After going through the work of doing the turbo, why would I not?


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

were did you guys get the parts... like the IM shaft, tt block off plate, oil pump, etc... dealer? what engine do i ask for... 2.0 16v? or aba? i assume the 2.0 16v...


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (evildorito)*

We have all of these parts in stock and ready to ship


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

BBM? nice... ummm how much would it be for all this...
i am planning to run the stock aba pistons







and looking into the screw compressor set up... 
so all i'm changin in the block is i'm putting your "Dizzy Gizzy" so i don't have to get all the 2.0 parts... 
do you guys have a crank pulley for it.. 2.0 16v?
anyways...
1: Dizzy Gizzy
2: Drive sprocket ABA 2.0 16v
3: if so... Crank pulley
and will this set up work well with the compressor... what kind of power am i looking at... boost etc... or shud i look into changing my pistons... i rather not if i don't have to








i'm sure i'll need more parts... but i'm trying to salvage as many as i can from my 1.8 8v off my Corrado G60...


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (evildorito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evildorito* »_BBM? nice... ummm how much would it be for all this...
i am planning to run the stock aba pistons







and looking into the screw compressor set up... 
so all i'm changin in the block is i'm putting your "Dizzy Gizzy" so i don't have to get all the 2.0 parts... 
do you guys have a crank pulley for it.. 2.0 16v?
anyways...
1: Dizzy Gizzy
2: Drive sprocket ABA 2.0 16v
3: if so... Crank pulley
and will this set up work well with the compressor... what kind of power am i looking at... boost etc... or shud i look into changing my pistons... i rather not if i don't have to








i'm sure i'll need more parts... but i'm trying to salvage as many as i can from my 1.8 8v off my Corrado G60...

The crank pulley is $110 the other parts prices are on our site.
Give me a call.
I will be out of the shop tomorrow and will be back on Monday.
See you all later.


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

so i heard that if i run the stock ABA pistons i can't run anything other than stock cams... i'm still debating to change them or not







.... anyone knows about how much that would run me... i tried talking to the machine shop guy but he does not understand me







.... lol i've tried explainin it like 3 times... he says "bring the block and pistons" but he does not understand







!!!! but anyways... if i run the 9a pistons will i be able to upgrade stages in cams??? thanks!!! i think i've asked this before but gotten no aswer and i read everything... but here it goes... how much would i be able to get out of the 16v with a supercharger and stock pistons... about how much power i mean... how much boost can i put on it max.. thanks guys... has been alot of help


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (evildorito)*

9a pistons are notched for the valves and will sit lower in the bore than they did in the 9a block. You can run aftermarket cams with that setup no problem. On pump gas, boost should probably be limited to around 15psi because your compression will be in the 9:1 range.


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (jwatts)*

anyone knows the part # for the 9a pistons... rod bushings etc... thanks!!!!


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

What would be the best set of cams to run on an ABA 16v with high boost?
and what about with mild boost?


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

lets keep this thread on tha first page


----------



## CorradoT (Oct 21, 2002)

just curious, anyone know what kind of power an ABA/16v with a t3/t4 would be getting?


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (CorradoT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoT* »_just curious, anyone know what kind of power an ABA/16v with a t3/t4 would be getting?
 look at jwats signature and you'll get an idea... he's like 3 above....


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

does anybody know which oil pump (9A or ABA) flows more?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

they are both 36 mm pumps so the same.


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (vwpat)*

the pumps may be the same, but the drives might not, since the 9a IM shaft is spun faster, the pump may be underdriven to compensate. Not sure because I just ended up getting the 9a IM shaft and a new pump and all.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (jwatts)*

to clarify, when spun faster it would have more volume and pressure building up. If you start swapping pulleys etc. it would change but the pump bodies, gears, etc. are the same.


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (vwpat)*

yeah, both of you make perfect sense.
I guess the question at hand is if there would be any flow difference in the following setups:
- 9A gear, 9A shaft, 9A pump
or
- modified 9A gear, ABA shaft, ABA pump
The reason is that I don't have an ABA distributor to pull a gear off of to add to the BBM grizzy. So I was thinking I might as well go pull an imtermediate shaft and pulley off a passat at the local junk-yard and buy a new pump. Any recommendations?
A used dizzy will cost about $40 either locally or shipped plus the cost of the BBM grizzy dizzy....


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

All of my gear came straight out of the passat 9a, including the plug where the dizzy used to be... I guess it's a "proven" combo since it was OEM







.


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (jwatts)*

my thoughts exactly. ;-)


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

ditto.


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)*

I've been working on an ABA 16v project for about a month now and got the car started today but for some reason I can't get my oil pressure up. We think it might have somthing to do with the distro block off plate.
















Is there a certain way this has to go in or should there be a spring inside that keeps it down. Mine just moves in and out pretty freely. I do have oil pressure but not much at all. Any ideas other than the block off plate? If anyones got any info at all on this deal please let me know. I want to get this thing on the road tonight if i can.


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (Mr.Incognito)*

do you have the bracket that hold it down in?


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

yea it came off the old distro right.


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

Do you guys think these pistons would be good for a high boost ABA 16v?








http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...Nav=6
Or should I be looking at a forged ABA? Or something else all together due to some ring-landing issues?
I thought the cast unit might be nice to have the tighter tolerances in the cylinder bores...


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

If I were buying pistons, I would buy the correct ones. http://www.porttuning.com has the correct ones.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (vwpat)*

These are some good ones for use with boost.
We also have the 16V valve reliefs cut in for a little extra security.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=116


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

have you guys made a nice high flow exhaust manifold for your project ABA 16v yet? we want pictures! ;-)


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

ABA 16v N/A Dyno. Basically just the 1.8 head bolted to the ABA block everything in stock form. 1.8t modded intake manifold, G60 DP with 2.5" exhaust. 97 motronic with neuspeed chip, A/F was 11.4:1 timing was a total of 28deg @ 6900rpms and I was running 89octane. forgot to mention that I had a huge arc coming off plug wire #2. lol












_Modified by pozer at 8:34 PM 1-31-2006_


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

That's a nice dyno for having an 8:1 compression.


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

i agree. do you plan to go turbo pozer?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

I had it boosted for about a year and after the second time snapping the exhaust manifold I sold all my turbo parts and now Im going to try a S/C http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (pozer)*

hmmm...can i ask which exhaust manifold?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

It was a custom manifold. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (pozer)*

Id be curious what kinda numbers a aba 16v S/C could put down, good luck and keep us updated


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*

I'd be willing to bet that a good ABA 16v with a BBM lysholm could see 250whp with a proper tune and a tiny azz pulley. Any thoughts on this John?


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (pozer)*

Is it possible to build a full motronic ABA 16V w/ an ABF mani? with proper n/a pistons how much power should one expect? is it possible to utilize all of the 8v t-belt pulley's?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

My SC 9A 1.8L 16V made 254whp at 17psi
I think Genes Riegered out yellow Scirocco 9A 1.8L 16V SC is right in that ball park also.
I would think that an ABA 2.0L would make even more


----------



## hpmotorsports1 (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

I need some help what is it that i need to make this swap on my mk3 if I am using stand alone and want to use the mk3 alt. , water pump. no ac no pwr str.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (GTi_94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi_94* »_Is it possible to build a full motronic ABA 16V w/ an ABF mani? with proper n/a pistons how much power should one expect? is it possible to utilize all of the 8v t-belt pulley's?

yes, you can build a full motronic ABA with ABF parts. It will need to be an OBD1 car (motronic 2.9) though. I would try to get and ABF digi 3.2 fuel rail as they use sequential injection, rather than the batch fire of the earlier Digi 3.1 ABF's. You could use the early ones if you rewire them though. The ABF manifold uses side feed injectors, although you could adapt it to use regular ones if you get a fuel rail and do some fabbing to make it fit. 
With proper pistons it should make between 134 and 150HP, just like any other 2.0 16v. With cams (shrick 268's) and some porting you could see 170-180.
You can't really use the 8v timing gears, they turn the intermediate shaft at different speeds and aren't wide enough. The extra width helps make the belt stronger, which it needs with twice as many cams, espescially if you plan to rev it.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hpmotorsports1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hpmotorsports1* »_I need some help what is it that i need to make this swap on my mk3 if I am using stand alone and want to use the mk3 alt. , water pump. no ac no pwr str.

you will need a VR6 waterpump pulley, to put on your water pump on the serpentine rather than the V belt. make sure to take 5.5mm off the back of the crank serpentine pulley so it lines up properly with the 16v timing gear on there. you can take the v-belt pulley off the sepentine pulley to save a little wieght, or get a cheap underdrive pulley and cut it right off.


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

is there a way i could just get the machine shop guy to machine some eyebrows on the ABA pistons? or is that a dumb question....


----------



## hpmotorsports1 (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

one more question what is it exactly that i would need for the 16 swap from what i can understand is that i would need the 16v head , oil pump, int.shaft, crank pulley . Is this correct if I am running stand alone?


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Curious though do you have any top end power at all with a SC, I would love to do a SC aba16v but i want some good high way power? SC to me is so much cooler! Love the sound! And the torque!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*

With the 8v head and the BBM s/c I make power all the way to 6500+ It makes more boost the faster it spins so it makes more power. I would bet that the better flowing 16V head would be even better.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (hpmotorsports1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hpmotorsports1* »_one more question what is it exactly that i would need for the 16 swap from what i can understand is that i would need the 16v head , oil pump, int.shaft, crank pulley . Is this correct if I am running stand alone?


stand alone with distributor or coil packs?
if you are using coil packs, you will need two custom piece from bahn brenner. the dizzy gizzy and the custom 16v IM shaft pulley that fits the aba im shaft. aba oil pump and aba IM shaft. 16v head and 16v timing tensioner, don't know about the crank pulley. 
if you are using the distrubtor, the easiest thing would be to use the 16v dis in the head and get the dizzy gizzy from bahn brenner to complete the link between the aba IM shaft and the aba oil pump.


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

Which engine harness should I be using to control ignition?? I will be using megasquirt for fuel.. Can I use a obdI aba harness to control the ignition or will I have to use a motronic 9A harness??? ANy advice would be awesome! Thanks!


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I am pretty interested in finding out whether or not i would be able to hit the 300hp mark with a bbm SC on a aba16v. Do you think this is possible, if not what SC would suffice, and not a centrifugal i want to stick with a roots charger. I love the sound of a roots charger, scares the $hit out of anybody who doesnt know what it is! Plus gotta love the smooth torque










_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 12:22 AM 2-6-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_I am pretty interested in finding out whether or not i would be able to hit the 300hp mark with a bbm SC on a aba16v. Do you think this is possible, if not what SC would suffice, and not a centrifugal i want to stick with a roots charger. I love the sound of a roots charger, scares the $hit out of anybody who doesnt know what it is! Plus gotta love the smooth torque









_Modified by mkiii2.0jetta at 12:22 AM 2-6-2006_

Our SR2 compressor is rated to max out at 300 bhp on this size of engine. It is not a roots type, it is a true screw type compressor.
I will say that this power will flat smoke 300-350 whp turbo powered cars due to it's incredible down low and long power band.


----------



## exTTreme (Apr 28, 2005)

Which pistons should I get!? Isn't 8:1 CR too low? I don't want my car to be a complete dog before the turbo kicks in...but also looking to put down 20-22 PSI to get 350whp.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (exTTreme)*

I like to go low and disagree with the higher compression theory when running boost.
8.0:1 or 8.5:1


----------



## Mr.Incognito (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

This is in a seperate thread but since this one is pretty active I thought i'd drop a link here. This is a write up website im constucting for my 16v project.
16v write up
its stull under construction but its getting there.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Cool, any way you guys might do any custom obd2 chip tuning ther at BBM?


----------



## Digital K (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

just wanted to bring this back from the dead to inquire on what kind of gains would be expected w/ the 16v head on the aba bottom end w/ the ABF pistons to raise the compression















edit: should have read the whole thread








I see that dyno chart, but is that right? 110hp w/ the low compression? 


_Modified by DigitalK at 11:30 PM 2-6-2006_


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DigitalK)*

with proper ABF pistons, 2L head, ABA rods on an ABA crank, can you safely run a set of TT276s?


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (GTi_94)*

Quick question, how do i go about removing the old valve guides and put in new ones? Any special VAG tool just like doing everthing else on the car.







Those things look like they are in there pretty good.


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mkiii2.0jetta)*

a machine shop


----------



## 9kZET (Feb 7, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (bonesaw)*

I didn't felt like reading through the 19 pages but I have just one little question, sorry if it's been asked before.
is there any difference between a ABA obd1 BLOCK and obd2 ?
I want to convert a ABA engine to 16v heads and have sourced a ABA 97 (wich is obd2) but in the first post it is stated that you need a obd1 block to do that. It is all going into a mk3 golf to replace a 1.8L 8V (ACC?) and will be turboed after
Any advice would be apreciated.
Thanks


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (9kZET)*

it's on the first page, OBD1 and OBD2 can both be used, OBD1 has some better internal bits like oil squirters and the crank.


----------



## kangondub (Jan 16, 2002)

i got to the eleventh page and my eyes started to hurt. just had some little questions. as i read the only hp projection was for a aba bottom and a 16v head basically as stock as you could make it. which was said to be around 130 if i recall. is that about right. if so what makes this swap so worth it given that the 16v 2.0 runs at about 120 hp in good condition. also what would be some projections for torque and horse power with the 16v with aba with moderate modding such as exhaust, stand alone fuel mang, and such. i want to do a swap and this looks very appealing but if i cant get atleast 150 to 160 for around 1200 i will start weighing other options


----------



## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (kangondub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kangondub* »_if so what makes this swap so worth it given that the 16v 2.0 runs at about 120 hp in good condition. 

Its well worth it, if you already have a ABA in your mk3 and you just swap on the head, dizzy gizzy, etc. Its also much better for someone going FI and wants lower compression without the price tag of forged pistons or having to use stacked gaskets to lower compression. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If you are going to swap in a whole motor, you midaswell just swap in a complete 9A and call it a day.. Less headaches / work and just as good if not better then a ABA16v except of course for the v belt setup.










_Modified by SweetSixteen at 11:04 PM 2-7-2006_


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (kangondub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kangondub* »_i got to the eleventh page and my eyes started to hurt. just had some little questions. as i read the only hp projection was for a aba bottom and a 16v head basically as stock as you could make it. which was said to be around 130 if i recall. is that about right. if so what makes this swap so worth it given that the 16v 2.0 runs at about 120 hp in good condition. also what would be some projections for torque and horse power with the 16v with aba with moderate modding such as exhaust, stand alone fuel mang, and such. i want to do a swap and this looks very appealing but if i cant get atleast 150 to 160 for around 1200 i will start weighing other options 

ABF's in Europe come with about 150 hp, so with fuel injection, cams, a vr6 throttle body, mild port job and a decent tune you should see 170-180 hp. This engine will have more torque and a smoother power curve than the 9A thanks to the longer rods and better rod/stroke ratio.


----------



## kenny_blankenship (Feb 19, 2005)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

will the stock downpipe work in an A1 (mk2 scirocco) with the taller ABA block? will the intake manifold and TB hit the underside of the hood? (i will also have nitrous fogger lines from the plate sticking up) what stuff can i use from a 1.8 16v (im mainly concerned about the alternator and PS pump because they are new)


----------



## kangondub (Jan 16, 2002)

thanks alot all star me. i think im probably gunna go with this swap. and thanks everyone else. lets keep this thread alive best one ive seen in awhile


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (kangondub)*

check out my sig ive got a setup for sale...


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (ROBHARMER)*

ok i just read all 20 pages of this thread but i still have a few questions. first off how do i go about changing out this single or double window thingy in the distributor??? i see it needs to be changed in an obd2 car to make the 16v dizzy work. 
second.... there has been a lot of talk on here about which t-body to use with different swaps. which one do i need to use in my obd2 jetta. should i just buy the adaptor from bahn brenner? also....if i go with the abf pistons.....do i still need to rebush the aba rods from 21 to 20mm? i think i have a few more questions brewing around in my head but i cant think of them at the moment.
thanks


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (VWDugan)*

imo the adapter is the cheapest/easiest option considering time involved sourcing parts.....at least for me it was.
as for swapping the sender in the dizzy....I have yet to do this so I too would like to know before I dig in,I was also wondering if I need to do this as I'll be running the smt-6 piggy back......







is there anyway of using the piggy back to convert the signals to something my ecm will read properly?
as far as pistons I went another route with after market scat rods and weisco 9a pistons.
a question I have is whats everybody doing for hoses in mk3 cars......I'd like to have this planned before the swap as I only have a short time to do this and dont want any headaches in the middle of the swap


----------



## exTTreme (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

Which 9A wiseco pistons did you choose? 
I have rebushed ABA rods, but now I cannot figure out which compression ratio wisecos to use. I would like a little bit lower than 9:1, but I don't want to use ABA pistons because of their weak ringlands.
or should i just go with a set of stock 9A pistons and new rings?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (exTTreme)*

We just did an engine with ABF pistons, no bushing of the rods required.


----------



## exTTreme (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

what's the compression ratio?
It must be high compression with those pistons. I want lower compression http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by exTTreme at 10:23 AM 2-16-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (exTTreme)*


_Quote, originally posted by *exTTreme* »_what's the compression ratio?
It must be high compression with those pistons. I want lower compression http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by exTTreme at 10:23 AM 2-16-2006_

Yes, this is an NA motor with t-bodies.
I believe it is 10.5:1 maybe higher with a shaved head.
You want low compression run the stock ABA pistons or some custom forged units.


----------



## exTTreme (Apr 28, 2005)

ok, but since i just had the ABA rods rebushed, i'm going to opt for a 9A piston.
I don't know how to calculate the CR between the different blocks and heads.
If I buy 9:1 CR 9A pistons and put them in an ABA block with 16v head, what will the CR be?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (exTTreme)*

~7.4:1 advertised (~7.9:1 actual). I would just buy the correct ABA 16V low comp pistons. I am sure someone would swap rods with you.




_Modified by vwpat at 9:36 AM 2-17-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_~7.4:1 advertised (~7.9:1 actual). I would just buy the correct ABA 16V low comp pistons. I am sure someone would swap rods with you.
_Modified by vwpat at 9:36 AM 2-17-2006_

I think I would have to agree here.
It sounds like the 9A pistons yield a less than desirable squish volume area.
If you want low compression do it right with correct squish and dish.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

they are a correct design but because of compression height differences (1.4mm IIRC), they sit lower in the bore and give lower compression and less squish.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)*

i have read several times that 9a 16v pistons on an ABA block with 16v head you will have ~8.5cr


----------



## exTTreme (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Ah ha...so it's all about the squish! I'm actually picking up another ABA block next week, I'll just pull those rods. ;-)
Thanks guys!


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (exTTreme)*

I went with after market h beam rods because by the time I ordered arp hardware and sent my rods off to the machine shop to be shot peened magfluxed etc the price is allmost the same for a lighter and stronger hefty h beam rod with bigger arp bolts installed,sized and shipped to my door.....the down side is they come with a 20 mm small end that can be machined to 21 mm but I decided to go with factory cr forged overbore 9a pistons and forgo machining the rods and getting true custom pistons.as I was going to deck the block a bit anyways.Now as far as how much I'm going to have to remove from the block has yet to be determined and it wont be till I have a rotating assembly of sorts so we can properly cc and measure cr and squish volume etc.


----------



## cprchris (Nov 4, 2002)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

using Je 9.6-1 ABA pistonson my aba16v turbo do the valve reliefs need to be machined?if so does anyone a custom set ofABA pistons from JE with the 9a valve reliefs!need a job # so i can order a set!


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (cprchris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cprchris* »_using Je 9.6-1 ABA pistonson my aba16v turbo do the valve reliefs need to be machined?if so does anyone a custom set of ABA pistons from JE with the 9a valve reliefs!need a job # so i can order a set!

BBM has these on their website, here: http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=116
for standard bore
and here:
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=116
for a .5mm overbore.


----------



## cprchris (Nov 4, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

these look like stock bore JE forged replacements with out the valve reliefs


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

may I ask what is the need for forged pistons if the stock 9a pistons have been shown to support over 500hp?


_Modified by Stroked1.8t at 4:46 PM 2-22-2006_


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

how much has to be machined off the ABA block to create stock 10-10.5:1 compression with 9A pistons on ABA rods?


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

how much has to be machined off the ABA block to create stock 10-10.5:1 compression with 9A pistons on ABA rods?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (GTi_94)*

*Ok, so what is the deal with the timing belt.*
We ordered up an ABF belt 151 teeth and it is barely short enough for any tension.
The early AEB 1.8T belt is 152 teeth and also to long.
The ABF belts are not only to long they are $80 bucks.
So is there another belt and or application that has a belt that will work?
How about a 150 tooth belt???
Appreciate any help.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

These are fresh off of the CNC and ready to ship.
In stock and ready to rock!
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242









_Modified by JBETZ at 11:37 AM 1-10-2006_[/QUOTE]


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

i think the general consensus here is that you need the 150 tooth 1.8t belt from a 1.8t. try this part number: 06B 109 119A ...should be less than half as much as that ABF belt. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## wobvintage3 (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

John,
Did you use Eurospec ABF pistons on the t-body engine? Where they 21mm wrist pin? I thought you had to rebush to 20mm even on ABF pistons







. I was getting ready to order 83.8 pistons from Eurospec and drop of my rods to be rebushed. Any advice would be great.
Thanks


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (wobvintage3)*

ABF pistons (eurospec, oem, etc.) are 21mm. They do not require the rods to be rebushed.


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Has anyone dynoed NA with ABF pistons? also with ABF pistons is there proper valve clearance for TT 276 cams?


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

can we get a better price if we purchase both together, like 200 shipped.


----------



## corocco (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

Can anyone verify if the PL crank shaft and intermediate shaft timing belt gears are the same(fit & width) as the 9A timing belt gears. 
I know that the PL intermediate shaft, drive gear and oil pump won't work on an ABA but I wasn't sure if the PL crankshaft timing gear would work on an ABA crank shaft and if a PL inter. timing belt gear would fit on a 9A intermediate shaft.


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (corocco)*

yup the pl crank gear works,I didnt try the im gear so not really sure there


----------



## wobvintage3 (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

John,
Did you use Eurospec ABF pistons on the t-body engine? Where they 21mm wrist pin? I thought you had to rebush to 20mm even on ABF pistons







. I was getting ready to order 83.8 pistons from Eurospec and drop of my rods to be rebushed. Any advice would be great.
Thanks


----------



## wobvintage3 (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (wobvintage3)*

Sorry guys.... Dont know what happened there. I just refreshed the page from yesterday.







None the less pay no attention to the last post....


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_*Ok, so what is the deal with the timing belt.*
We ordered up an ABF belt 151 teeth and it is barely short enough for any tension.
The early AEB 1.8T belt is 152 teeth and also to long.
The ABF belts are not only to long they are $80 bucks.
So is there another belt and or application that has a belt that will work?
How about a 150 tooth belt???
Appreciate any help.



If you use all stock parts the 151 tooth belt is really tight and the ABF is about perfect. what is diff from your setup and stock? you mill the head/block? you have diff sized pulleys?


----------



## corocco (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

Can anyone tell me if the stock ABA crankcase breather will work on the 16V ABA conversion instead of using an after market block off plate or does the 16V coolant flange get in the way?


----------



## wobvintage3 (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (corocco)*

You should be fine withe breather setup. It looks like the 2.0l 16v breather setup to me. Can anyone confirm?????








I have a quick question for you guys on this build up. What is the excact bore specs for eurospec 83.5 pistons? I assume its .3 over piston diameter, however at this point I dont know that number. It is not in the bentley nor on ES's website. I need to drop the block off for the machine work, but need the specs first.
Tanx.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (corocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corocco* »_Can anyone tell me if the stock ABA crankcase breather will work on the 16V ABA conversion instead of using an after market block off plate or does the 16V coolant flange get in the way?

I just have a hose running out of mine to a catchcan.


----------



## push (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (pozer)*

I used a 150 tooth 1.8t timing belt from an AEB passat and the tensioner from a 16v for my motor. The belt was tight to get on but its not overtightened.








and while i'm at it let me clarify a few things for the turbo guys with this picture








you can see perfectly clear where I tapped into the back of the head for the oil feed for the turbo and how i set up my oil drain line off the turbo.


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (GTi_94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi_94* »_Has anyone dynoed NA with ABF pistons? also with ABF pistons is there proper valve clearance for TT 276 cams?

Anyone have ideas or input on this? I understand that somone has dynoed NA at 110, but it was also not on proper compression for NA.
Also the clearance thing is huge, any ideas?
Are there major advantages to running a VR tb versus a ABA one? I know the VR is substantially larger, but this can also adversly affect the characteristics of the motor.
Also if running NA would you recommend running slightly larger injectors like the ones off a G60?
Cheers,


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (GTi_94)*

well NGP just dyno'ed an ABF install and it was 140 hp so having the same pistons, in an equivalent bottom end should be pretty close. ABF's use an OBD 1 VR6 size throttle body and they do fine. OBD2 Vr throttle bodies are even larger than obd 1. If people are putting mustang throttle bodies on short runners on there ABA and using them NA, I wouldn't even worry about it.
I don't think there will be any problem with clearance, even with 276's. Just make sure you put some heavy duty springs in it. Even with the head decked a bit to get 11:1 it should be alright. put one together and see if it turns over by hand, or put some clay on the piston to see how close you can get.
Instead of running larger injectors just turn your fuel presure up a little. G60's injectors would probably be too much anyway. You can get an adjustable FPR to fine tune it or buy a few to try them out, they come in .1 bar increments between 3 and 4 bar, and you shouldn't need more than 3.5 bar though


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Thank you for the information!


----------



## 98SLEEPER (Apr 2, 2005)

*Re: (GTi_94)*

what are ur opinions on what size turbo to run with aba pistons to reach 250-275hp with 10-12psi...is it possible??(with that psi)...how about my tranny...im going to do this swap on my 98gl 4dr...(odb2)


----------



## push (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (98SLEEPER)*

T3/T4 50 trim should get you into that hp range. IM killa on here and he would be able to give you a better idea and a price on all the parts you will need http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif as far as the trans an 020 will be VERY close to giving up the ghost at those hp ranges. an 02A corrado 'box will handle the power alot more reliably.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (push)*

so when it is all said and done, is everything running off a serp. belt or is it a combination of serp and V. 
I need to buy all these accessories, but not sure what I need.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

the timing gear on the crankshaft, if you are running a 16v head on an ABA block, what gear do you need, ABA or 16v?


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

16v since the timing cog is wider to support a belt that will hold a higher load driving double the valves as the 8v stuff.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (jwatts)*

the 16v will fit the aba crank no problem?


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

will fit crank, but you'll have to knock about 6mm off of the aba crank pulley for it to line back up with the rest of the accessories... or space all of the other pulleys out... heheh.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jwatts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwatts* »_will fit crank, but you'll have to knock about 6mm off of the aba crank pulley for it to line back up with the rest of the accessories... or space all of the other pulleys out... heheh.

You not only need to machine the 6mm off of the crank pulley.
You also need to turn an insert bushing to keep it concentric.
This is a very precision machining operation if done correctly.
I would say that this is a must for this modification.
If hacked it could cause some serious balance issues.
We have them ready to go, no core fee for $110 + sh
Or you can buy our billet crank pulley and insert the G60 harmonic balancer.


_Modified by JBETZ at 4:37 PM 3-6-2006_


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (jwatts)*

do you know where I can purchase one? crank timing gear that is.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_do you know where I can purchase one? crank timing gear that is.

The gear behind the crank pulley?
If so, we have them.


----------



## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

didn't find them on your site and you IM's don't work.


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

I have a brand new one that I'll swap you the rod bolts for. ;-)


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stroked1.8t* »_didn't find them on your site and you IM's don't work.

That is one of the many parts that are not on the site, sorry.
My IM's are off or it would be my other full time job.
My email is [email protected]


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

what exacly doesnt fit with the 1.8 16v im shaft







I stuck one I had laying around in a block today layed a crank in there and it looks ok.......is it the rods that hit???the pump gear or what?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

I'm pretty sure that the small gears are different sizes and the shafts are different sizes.


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

the rod hits the oil pump drive gear








it took me a few more














to figure it out


----------



## 98SLEEPER (Apr 2, 2005)

*Re: (push)*

with this aba 16v swap (w/aba pistons 8:1cr), i would like 250-275hp...
how much boost do i need to get there???


----------



## wobvintage3 (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (98SLEEPER)*

Couple of quick questions..... If not using a crank sensor do u need to keep the crank trigger wheel and what did you use to block the crank sensor hole, old crank sensor?


----------



## push (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (wobvintage3)*

I left the trigger wheel on the crank and left the crank sensor in the hole. I'm planning on going standalone later on down the road so I just left it alone so I can use it later. If you have no plans on using it you could pull the trigger wheel off and just cut the wires to the sensor and leave it in place to plug the hole. it really doesnt matter either way.


----------



## Snowgoer05 (Oct 26, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the info!!


----------



## eurochris1021 (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

bump the hell out of this


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (eurochris1021)*

Here is our latest ABA 2.0L / ABF 16V conversion.
Set up for t-bodies and stand alone.
























http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242










_Modified by JBETZ at 9:15 AM 3-29-2006_


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

price on ITBs?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (bonesaw)*

If you get all of what you will need:
T-bodies
Air horns
Fuel rail
Throttle mechanism
$1599 + sh
If a few people want them we can do a group price.


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

I have a question on swapping the distributer parts.....do you have to swap hall sender or can I just swap out the trigger window?Reason I ask is I'd rather use the new sender that came with the dizzy than the old one I have.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (not SoQuick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *not SoQuick* »_I have a question on swapping the distributer parts.....do you have to swap hall sender or can I just swap out the trigger window?Reason I ask is I'd rather use the new sender that came with the dizzy than the old one I have.

The only ABA 16V we have ever done is the t-body engine and it has no dizzy.
If I knew I would have posted the answers for you.
Anyone out there going to get into some more details on this distributor conversion???


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

Another new BBM part for your ABA 16V conversions.
*Screw it right into our 16V fuel rail.*
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=140










_Modified by JBETZ at 7:44 AM 3-13-2007_


----------



## terribletwo (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

bump


----------



## germanthunder81 (May 1, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (terribletwo)*

so what timing belt do i need for the swap, and where can i get it.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (germanthunder81)*


_Quote, originally posted by *germanthunder81* »_so what timing belt do i need for the swap, and where can i get it.


We are now stocking this belt.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=242


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

Does anyone know what coolant hoses are needed? I'm trying to figure out how I will need to route them as well.
Who here has it running on MK3 obd2 management?


----------



## Quick2.0-8v (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (BMGFifty)*

If I want to run the ABA oil pump and dizzy, can I fit a 16v IM sprocket on the ABA IM shaft? What different would I have to do for obd2 than obd1?


----------



## ROBHARMER (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Quick2.0-8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Quick2.0-8v* »_If I want to run the ABA oil pump and dizzy, can I fit a 16v IM sprocket on the ABA IM shaft? What different would I have to do for obd2 than obd1?

It would have to be machined to fit, either the ABA im shft or the 16v timing gear, i dont rember which one is correct off hand, BUT the answer IS in one of the first three pages of the post, BMGFIFTY's Question is answered in there as well.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ROBHARMER)*

I just re-checked the first 5 pages and never saw mention of good coolant line/ flange setup to run MK3 sensors. I think I have it figured out though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Quick2.0-8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Quick2.0-8v* »_If I want to run the ABA oil pump and dizzy, can I fit a 16v IM sprocket on the ABA IM shaft? What different would I have to do for obd2 than obd1?

you can use a 9A intermediate shaft with a 16v cam gear on it, or you can modify the ABA shaft to fit the 16v cam gear.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (BMGFifty)*

you want a passat 16v upper hose with overflow line on it. use the BBM spacer to clear the sensors on the side of the head then an ABA flange with sensors bolts up.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

Thanks for the info, but doesn't the aba flange have 2 outlet/inlets and not just the one that goes to the heater core. Do I just block off the old inlet and run just the heater part of it?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Thanks for the info, but doesn't the aba flange have 2 outlet/inlets and not just the one that goes to the heater core. Do I just block off the old inlet and run just the heater part of it?

You can use our coolant flange and block for the ecu coolant sensor.
Then you can use the screw in style for the coolant gauge sensor.
This part screws into the side of the head.


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Anyone looking to beef up the internals of their ABA/16v project, check this out: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2577345


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
You can use our coolant flange and block for the ecu coolant sensor.
Then you can use the screw in style for the coolant gauge sensor.
This part screws into the side of the head.



Thanks John, I just ordered the rest of the coolant stuff. 
My first order just arrrived. The dizzy gizzy is pretty sweet. I'll be posting pictures shortly.


----------



## Salmacis (Nov 29, 2005)

Ok, so now my JE forged pistons have been made, 83mm and 9.0:1 CR. 
BUT can I use the ABA head gasket with 83mm pistons?
Thanks


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Salmacis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salmacis* »_Ok, so now my JE forged pistons have been made, 83mm and 9.0:1 CR. 
BUT can I use the ABA head gasket with 83mm pistons?
Thanks 

Yep, stock bore is 82.5mm
The factory gasket is a hair bigger.
Your good to go


----------



## thejanitor86 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

i am going to be doing this swap here in the near future and are going to turbocharge it and wondering if someone knew of a good exhaust manifold and turbo combo to go with in a mk2 scirocco be cause my bro just turbocharged his and ran in to quite a few problems with space for the exhaust pipe to come out being so close to the side of the engine bay, any tips or products would greatly help


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (thejanitor86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thejanitor86* »_i am going to be doing this swap here in the near future and are going to turbocharge it and wondering if someone knew of a good exhaust manifold and turbo combo to go with in a mk2 scirocco be cause my bro just turbocharged his and ran in to quite a few problems with space for the exhaust pipe to come out being so close to the side of the engine bay, any tips or products would greatly help

I suggest Racecraft Fabrication.
http://www.racecraft-fabrication.com/


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

*CONFUSED!!!*

ok guys.. i've been planning this swap for a while now... but stuill some things need to be clear before i start in 2 weeks...
My set up will be a supercharged 2.0 16v... on a 1990 corrado
Bottom end
1. Un decided--> Can i use the ABA pistons?? pros and cons??? i was looking at the BBM STD bore ABA 16v conversion... any feed back?
2. Dizzy gizzy
3. 16v IM shaft sprocket
4. 16v crank gear and pulley
5. RE-use ABA rods and crank.
what shud be done to them...
anything i'm missing??? and suggestions on what will work... i've read this trhead over and over again but i need to be sure... 
THANKS!!!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: CONFUSED!!! (evildorito)*

How much boost would you be running? G60 or Lysholm?
I've got my list for a similar swap almost complete. It has everything you need down to the bolts and nuts. The only things that it doesn't have are some fuel line measurements and intake stuff. IM me if you have any questions or want access to the "master list"


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: CONFUSED!!! (BMGFifty)*

ttt


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: CONFUSED!!! (JBETZ)*

Quick question will i run into any problems if i use a rebuilt obdII aba bottom end? I will pull it back apart and have my machine shop install oil squirters. 
Also what will i need from a 16v other than the head and crank pulley. I plan on running BBM's im shaft pulley and dizzy gizzy to retain the aba oil pump. I am also just going to use the 16v v-belt set up since I just need to drive an alternator.
Thanks in advance.


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: CONFUSED!!! (Black86GTI)*

The entire idea of this engine is to be able to run high boost and power on relatively low cost stock block .
WTF is with everyone rebuilding blocks and having custom crap installed.
Why not just put low compression pistons in a 9a block if your going that far. The extra torque your going to get from the ABA block is not worth it over a 9a if your going to go as far as to put in forged pistons.
Just my 2cents.


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

There's other things to consider as well. The ABA block has a much better rod/stroke ratio. Not sure about the 9A block, but the earlier ABA blocks came with a forged crank. Also, it's easier to find an ABA block. 9A (2.0L) motors aren't the only engines that came with a 16v head. Someone that has the 1.8L 16v motor and wants to upgrade to a bigger motor could find an ABA block easier than a 9A block. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

My entire point was NOT why use an ABA block but why spend countless dollars on modding it to run high boost with say forged pistons and custom installed oil squirters when you can pick the blocks up for 200.00 a pop with low mileage and run 25psi on stock internals.
I guess if you have the money to blow, but you could do the same thing on a 9a 2.0 block and not have to do all the custom extra crap to get the aba and the 16v head working together.
The stock ABA block and stock head is capable of produce more power then most VW tranny will hold I would take al that extra money people are spending on pistons and get a good standalone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: CONFUSED!!! (Black86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black86GTI* »_Quick question will i run into any problems if i use a rebuilt obdII aba bottom end? I will pull it back apart and have my machine shop install oil squirters. 
Also what will i need from a 16v other than the head and crank pulley. I plan on running BBM's im shaft pulley and dizzy gizzy to retain the aba oil pump. I am also just going to use the 16v v-belt set up since I just need to drive an alternator.
Thanks in advance.

can any one help me out?


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: CONFUSED!!! (Black86GTI)*

im running a obd2 bottom end on mine...after 2weeks no problems. no blow by or overheating. i have been babying it and no going over 6500rpms tho. 
dyno tuining in a few weeks.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: CONFUSED!!! (Black86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black86GTI* »_
Also what will i need from a 16v other than the head and crank pulley. I plan on running BBM's im shaft pulley and dizzy gizzy to retain the aba oil pump. I am also just going to use the 16v v-belt set up since I just need to drive an alternator.

Are you running a distributor? If so you will need the 16v one.


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: CONFUSED!!! (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
Are you running a distributor? If so you will need the 16v one. 

yea i knew about the distributor. i just wasnt sure about the rest of it. im picking up the 16v head, distributor and crank pulley this weekend and then ill be ordering the parts like the dizzy gizzy and the modified int. shaft pulley from BBM when i getmy next pay check


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## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_My entire point was NOT why use an ABA block but why spend countless dollars on modding it to run high boost with say forged pistons and custom installed oil squirters when you can pick the blocks up for 200.00 a pop with low mileage and run 25psi on stock internals.
I guess if you have the money to blow, but you could do the same thing on a 9a 2.0 block and not have to do all the custom extra crap to get the aba and the 16v head working together.
The stock ABA block and stock head is capable of produce more power then most VW tranny will hold I would take al that extra money people are spending on pistons and get a good standalone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Sometimes it is just not that cut and dry. What do you do when you tear apart your 94 ABA longblock with "70k" on it and it looks like this on the inside:
























Would you feel good putting a 16v head you just spent over $1k on on that bottom end? Sure, you could just buy a working bottom end and head, slap the two together without any cleanup and call it a day, but if you're going FI and want things to last, it's just plain easier to do things the right way the first time around. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








At bare minimum, I'll be doing ARP hardware, a bore, bearings, seals...


_Modified by derekste at 9:55 AM 5-31-2006_


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (derekste)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekste* »_
Sometimes it is just not that cut and dry. What do you do when you tear apart your 94 ABA longblock with "70k" on it and it looks like this on the inside:
]

I would go get an ABA with 30K for under 200.00.


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (pozer)*

or get a rebuilt aba with ) miles on it from a friend for 250 my only problem is how long the obdII will hold up underboost


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## CrazyMonkey (Oct 1, 2002)

*Re: (Black86GTI)*

I started another thread, but maybe I should have added it here. Sorry about that. Other thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2638474

_Quote, originally posted by *me* »_
I have read the official ABA/16V thread and searched. I didn't see the information I was looking for.
Engine in question: ABA/16VT with T3/T04E 50 trim, ~17-20 psi, ~300 whp
I was playing around with some numbers today and if I were to deck the ABA block by 1 mm, I would end up with ~8.7:1 compression with my 16V head. Decking the block by 1.5 mm would yield 9.0:1 compression. Either seems to me to be a much better number for off-boost throttle response/power than 8.0:1. Both are cheap to do and would give me a clean mating surface as a side benefit. I've been told that the 16V (specifically, the 9A) head can't be decked much without getting into the water passages, which is why I was thinking about decking the block. Plus, the shape of the combustion chamber isn't cylindrical, so determining the actual volume remaining is little more tricky.
Also, I have, and plan to continue running, my Schrick 268's. If I do deck either the block or head, should I be looking at having some valve reliefs poked into the ABA pistons since the perimeter crown is flat?
Should I just be looking at decking the head instead? A little of both?
Thoughts please.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (CrazyMonkey)*

couldi use a 2.0 16v head off a passat. Got a nice deal for 200$ rebuilt


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (ChinkyVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ChinkyVdub* »_couldi use a 2.0 16v head off a passat. Got a nice deal for 200$ rebuilt

yes you can http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re:*

I started my head swap this week. 
Here is a thread with the details:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2645353


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## crazy16v (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

was wondering how i get the gear off the aba dist to put it on the dizzy gizzy . http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Re: (crazy16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazy16v* »_was wondering how i get the gear off the aba dist to put it on the dizzy gizzy . http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Pretty sure you can just use a drift punch for the pin.


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## rsclyrt (Jul 25, 2005)

wow so i finally finished all 23 pages. 
theres a few things i havent seen answers for. well atleast not any good answers. there were a few posts about valve/piston contact with high boost and a large cam. id like to be running atleast 15psi on this swap, and id also like to know what cams people have been using in this swap. 
btw im going to pick up a '95 aba today with ~90k for $175







includes tranny and all accessories http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif so when i find a 16v head the swap will begin.
EDIT: as for my question, this would be with a stock ABA bottom end with a 16v head. 


_Modified by rsclyrt at 4:43 PM 6-11-2006_


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (rsclyrt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rsclyrt* »_wow so i finally finished all 23 pages. 
theres a few things i havent seen answers for. well atleast not any good answers. there were a few posts about valve/piston contact with high boost and a large cam. id like to be running atleast 15psi on this swap, and id also like to know what cams people have been using in this swap. 
btw im going to pick up a '95 aba today with ~90k for $175







includes tranny and all accessories http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif so when i find a 16v head the swap will begin.
EDIT: as for my question, this would be with a stock ABA bottom end with a 16v head. 

_Modified by rsclyrt at 4:43 PM 6-11-2006_

Stay away from the high lift cams on boost.
.425" is plenty of lift.
You can go sport or Euro intake cam, this is plenty good and will give you correct and safe valve clearance.


----------



## thejanitor86 (Jul 8, 2005)

what about ttt g-grind cam, also has, have people done the swap with ac


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (thejanitor86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thejanitor86* »_what about ttt g-grind cam, also has, have people done the swap with ac 

Same gig, AC no problem.


----------



## thejanitor86 (Jul 8, 2005)

what do i need to do ,if anything special, to do htis swap with ac


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (thejanitor86)*

The swap works just fine with ac, nothing special.


----------



## thejanitor86 (Jul 8, 2005)

well then i will be starting my swap very soon


----------



## rsclyrt (Jul 25, 2005)

what works good/doesnt work good as far as head work for a turbo car. definitely doing a P&P, but will stock valves do ok for power? i found a head with bent vavles, so ill be replacing them, but like everyone im on a budget and ill be penching pennies. 
i think when i got pick up the head and scirocco intake the engine rebuild is going to be started.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (rsclyrt)*

Stock head and block have been known to hold close to 400whp with this setup.
I don't really know what boost level was ran but I think the dyno was done by Killa do a search for his dyno's.


_Modified by pozer at 6:52 AM 6-14-2006_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*update*

Cool, this thread is sticky now!

Here is an update
















http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2645353


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*

HAHAHAAH that is going to be sick !!!!!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: update (pozer)*

I got the manifold and the rest of the misc parts installed.


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*

Great thread guys i learned allot http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dubious1 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: update (mocas)*

ok, ive read most of these 23 pages and i keep seeing the same questions over, however the one i have has not been answered. I want to do the conversion on my g/fs car (94 gl) but i need the obd1 to still work (& work properly, i.e. emissions). Can i run the motronic management or is this not possible? the list says i need to run cis but i dont want to run that. Can you just run the 8v dist and block off the 16v dist. while using all mk3 acc. with the "custom" pully?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: update (dubious1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubious1* »_ok, ive read most of these 23 pages and i keep seeing the same questions over, however the one i have has not been answered. I want to do the conversion on my g/fs car (94 gl) but i need the obd1 to still work (& work properly, i.e. emissions). Can i run the motronic management or is this not possible? the list says i need to run cis but i dont want to run that. Can you just run the 8v dist and block off the 16v dist. while using all mk3 acc. with the "custom" pully?

Run your stock OBDI it should pass emissions if you time and tune everything correctly.
If you are going NA then I would shave the head, check valve clearance with clay or run ABF pistons for higher compression.
The dizzy will not fit in the block you will need the 16V dizzy unit it the head.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: update (JBETZ)*

Has anyone had this problem with the swap before? The valves are hitting the pistons.


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Has anyone had this problem with the swap before? The valves are hitting the pistons. 

















time for some 9a pistons. glad I went this route.
what type of cam? what did you rev to? boost? springs?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*

Few questions because I didn't see them covered in the thread.
Did you use an ABA head gasket or 16v ?
Is this on stock cams ?
Was the head milled ?
Are the marks on all 4 ?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: update (pozer)*

I used an aba head gasket, stock cams. Head is not milled.
Marks are on all 4.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*

It looks like you have an OBD2 block/pistons and the quench area is higher than obd1 pistons. If your gonna rev and boost the engine you should cleance them or use 9A pistons for extra safety. revs and boost = valve float. HD springs, lighter lifters and notching clearances are the way to go.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: update (all-starr-me)*

Yeah, the OBD2 pistons have the extra front quench area. I'm guessing that combined with what you mention is the cause.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*

Im running the same type of pistons.
I have ran 20psi daily on stock cams and have not seen this issue 7500rpms is the highest I have taken it tho.


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: update (pozer)*

ok so...im also running obd2 pistons/block without the oil squirters and been shifting @ 8000rpms. No valve hittin yet...(unless Cali pistons are different...less quench area)Car has ran flawless. no probs. was there a loss in cr or something on yours.


----------



## rsclyrt (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: update (soch naungayan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soch naungayan* »_ok so...im also running obd2 pistons/block without the oil squirters and been shifting @ 8000rpms. No valve hittin yet...(unless Cali pistons are different...less quench area)Car has ran flawless. no probs. was there a loss in cr or something on yours. 

is that a completely stock bottom end? or has it been balanced? also what psi were you running?


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_I have ran 20psi daily on stock cams and have not seen this issue 7500rpms is the highest I have taken it tho. 

im curious if you know how much power your making at 20psi and also whats your fuel setup like?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: update (rsclyrt)*

20psi T3 super 60, 42lb USRT injectors, TT 30lb chip / 18deg, 3" custom MAF housing, 4bar FPR, A/F on my wideband was general high 10s under WOT . The chip tuning sucked it was a bad idea on my part.
I have no idea on the power, I got it on the dyno and the wastegate actuator got a hole in it or something so it would spike 6psi max and bled off to 4psi. I dynoed 170whp @ 7100rpms and 200lb like 4000rpms. on 6psi.




_Modified by pozer at 3:37 PM 7-2-2006_


----------



## betajetta (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Re: (crazy16v)*

to get the gear off the aba distributor you can use a drift punch, but i have found it alot easier to put it in a drill press and drill out the pin while being carefull to use a bit that doesnt change the size of the hole in the shaft.

_Modified by betajetta at 4:41 AM 7/3/2006_


_Modified by betajetta at 4:41 AM 7/3/2006_


----------



## 93wolfsburg (Feb 22, 2003)

*Re: Re: (betajetta)*

I havent read through all 10 pages so perhaps this has been answered already but can a 1.8 16v oil pump, water pump, and intermediate shaft be used?


----------



## rsclyrt (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: Re: (93wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *93wolfsburg* »_I havent read through all 10 pages so perhaps this has been answered already but can a 1.8 16v oil pump, water pump, and intermediate shaft be used?

it all has been answered. and its 23 pages, not 10. id suggest reading all 23 if you plan to do this swap.
im thinking your going to need an ABA waterpump. if you want to use 16v parts for the oil pump and intermediate shaft, it needs to be 2.0 16v not 1.8 16v. i beleive your other option is using the ABA oil pump and intermediate shaft with the dizzy gizzy from BBM.
someone please correct me if im wrong, this is just what i remember from reading everything. 


_Modified by rsclyrt at 4:00 PM 7-5-2006_


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## 93wolfsburg (Feb 22, 2003)

yeah i'm just about finished reading at this point... I kinda took the slow reply as a go read the thread ya ass :lol:


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: update (rsclyrt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rsclyrt* »_
is that a completely stock bottom end? or has it been balanced? also what psi were you running?

im curious if you know how much power your making at 20psi and also whats your fuel setup like?


stock bottom end yes....basically i didnt want to sink much into it since i didnt know how well it'd work. $60 junkyard bottom end+ ported head.
....but putting in arp rod bolts as i type...since i have cranked up the boost to 24psi.


----------



## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: update (soch naungayan)*

should i be using 8v head studs or 16v ones?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: update (the kevin)*

I think it was said earlier in this thread, but 8v studs for 8v heads, 16v studs for 16v heads. The 8v studs are much shorter than the 16v ones.


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Has anyone had this problem with the swap before? The valves are hitting the pistons. 

















out of curiosity...what timing belt are you using...the 1.8t belt or the euro abf belt???


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: update (soch naungayan)*

I don't actually know where the belt was sourced from. I do know that it is the one tha BBM sells. If I were to guess it would be the ABF belt.

PAGE 24


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*

Here is a diagram of how I positioned my shutter window in the 16v distributor. 
When the 8v distributor is at the #1 cyl the window has just passed the sensor. On the 16v distributor I positioned it so that as the rotor reaches the #1 cyl. the window is the same distance from the sensor as it was on the 8v distributor.










_Modified by BMGFifty at 1:03 PM 7-11-2006_


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## hubbzVW (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: update (BMGFifty)*

Has anyone though tof using the 50mm 16v intake? Does it bolt on withoug hany issues or does the ABA block have to be bored? Don't recall if this was answered previously...


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: update (soch naungayan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soch naungayan* »_
out of curiosity...what timing belt are you using...the 1.8t belt or the euro abf belt???

bringin this back up....
i decided to rering my bottom end since i never did that. first thing i noticed were that my aba pistons dont look anything like the ones originally posted. im gonna post a pic 2morrow to see if other aba's have pistons like mine. 
ps...no valves hit/tap on my pistons.


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## TDIVentoDave (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

subscribed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (TDIVentoDave)*

any idea on this?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2771118
lowered CR 9A JE pistons? would that be ok for high boost?


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## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (the kevin)*

Damn, I just finished all 23 pages! Some of you people who are posting questions should really read this at least partially before you start asking the same questions over and over. I'm building mine up now, started on it two weeks ago. Can't wait to hear this thing running on boost!


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## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (evil-e)*

Has anyone put an Eaton M62 or M90 onto an ABA 16V? Anyone? I've seen some G60's with them on them, and a couple G60/16v's with them, but not an ABA 16v. I'm looking into doing this, I've got an M45 unit from a MINI Cooper S, but it looks like it won't be able to push enough air for my motor with a P&P'd head with AutoTech sport cams. I'm thinking of doing either the M62, or the M90, but leaning more toward the M62. Anyone done this, and what are you running for management?


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (evil-e)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evil-e* »_Has anyone put an Eaton M62 or M90 onto an ABA 16V? Anyone? I've seen some G60's with them on them, and a couple G60/16v's with them, but not an ABA 16v. I'm looking into doing this, I've got an M45 unit from a MINI Cooper S, but it looks like it won't be able to push enough air for my motor with a P&P'd head with AutoTech sport cams. I'm thinking of doing either the M62, or the M90, but leaning more toward the M62. Anyone done this, and what are you running for management?









what like this???


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*

HELLLLL YES http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (evil-e)*

why an eaton when you can put a lysholm in there. the lysholm is more efficient and smaller. if this is your 90, just put digi1 in there and a nice SNS chip, or even motronic would work but need a custom chip from jeff.


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*

some info on the pic.
the pic with the eaton is out of a ford thunderbird. dirt cheap at the junkyard...but lots of fab work to make it happen. it runs on sds and makes 260whp on 12-14psi. engine combo is aba 16v with 9a pistons....
the boost is instant and the truck ran a mid 12sec et a month ago....and its a daily driver.


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soch naungayan* »_the eaton is out of a ford thunderbird. *dirt cheap* at the junkyard...

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vdubmx1 (Jul 25, 2006)

can i use a OBD2 block


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (vdubmx1)*

Yes you can. See my sig for my build using an obd2 block. 
Edit: I think Pozer is using obd2 as well. 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 7:40 PM 8-30-2006_


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

How many of you out there would be interested in a conversion kit package?
You supply the head, intake manifold and distributor and we supply the rest.
We could put together an na package with abf pistons and an fi version for super or turbo.
We already have all the parts we just need to package them together with a good price.


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## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

ooOOoo I would be. Im actualy buying up the parts. my garage is full of stuff I cant put together till i get everything. patiences is virtue.


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: (ChinkyVdub)*

my dyno session to clean up afr's. ps this is at 10psi. had a boosting problem.
http://www.dynoperformance.com...=golf
aba 16v on a totally stock jyd block with a boost factory turbo and snake manifold.
since then engine has gone thru some changes.


_Modified by soch naungayan at 4:57 AM 9-3-2006_


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## hubbzVW (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

That would be very much appreciated... Would help with figuring out overall costs as well as making sure you have the appropriate parts... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (hubbzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbzVW* »_That would be very much appreciated... Would help with figuring out overall costs as well as making sure you have the appropriate parts... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

We will nail it down and make it live
Thanks for the feed back.


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## silverbullet01 (May 20, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_How many of you out there would be interested in a conversion kit package?
You supply the head, intake manifold and distributor and we supply the rest.
We could put together an na package with abf pistons and an fi version for super or turbo.
We already have all the parts we just need to package them together with a good price.


All depends on price. There are of course ppl out there otherwise this thread wouldnt be here... Depending on what kind of financial state im in when it comes time to order I would be interested!


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## mrk130 (Nov 9, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_How many of you out there would be interested in a conversion kit package?
You supply the head, intake manifold and distributor and we supply the rest.
We could put together an na package with abf pistons and an fi version for super or turbo.
We already have all the parts we just need to package them together with a good price.

I'm interested.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (mrk130)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrk130* »_
I'm interested.









We are putting it together, it will be a discounted package price.


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

sounds like a good idea...on the fi version would the pistons be aftermarket with rings etc/timing belt/int shaft gear..or oem early aba 8valve pistons.
would help alot of people here who dont have access to junkyards...or tools.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (soch naungayan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soch naungayan* »_sounds like a good idea...on the fi version would the pistons be aftermarket with rings etc/timing belt/int shaft gear..or oem early aba 8valve pistons.
would help alot of people here who dont have access to junkyards...or tools. 

We have a pretty good list coming together and it should be live on our site by the end of next week.
Yes, there is an option ad on for FI or NA pistons.
We already stock all of these parts.


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## theVWrobot (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

tracking topic http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

a couple quick questions.
1. the hose from the aba block to the pcv valve. the 16v head doesn't have one where do i hook the hose up to?
2. on the 16v head i can't find a diagram for how all the coolant outlet doodads goes. i have the plastic outlet and i think that the coolant sensor goes into that but then there are other tapped hole that lead into the coolant runners of the head. i don't know what goes into them.
is there a picture or something some one has that'll help me out? i'm in a bind here








thanx


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Norwestralley)*

This picture helped me out,


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## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_why an eaton when you can put a lysholm in there. the lysholm is more efficient and smaller. if this is your 90, just put digi1 in there and a nice SNS chip, or even motronic would work but need a custom chip from jeff.

I haven't kept up on this thread for a while, but I'm going with the Eaton because it's cheap. For the money I'd spend on a Lysholm, I could do a T3/T4 setup. I got an M90 w/ the outlet plate and boost tubes for $200.00 shipped.
I've been thinking of doing digi 1 w/ an SNS chip, but also contemplating running megasquirt or 034. Seems like the digi would be an easier route. Jwatts told me he could do the chip, so we'll see.


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## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

BMGFifty you are a life saver.
thanx a bunch. cheers


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## theVWrobot (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: (Norwestralley)*

hey fellas, i just got on the road with my rabbit and im still working out the gameplan... im pretty sure im going to run the stock cams (although i do have shrick 276s)... runnin 8:1 compression... i would like to run the SRT-4 intercooler in my rad support
what do you all reccomend for a turbo setup running how much boost on the stock ABA pistons?
and im runnin the ABA oil pump right now how important is this to change?... it seems to be working fine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
OH and a weak spot on the 4K 80% kit trans(ill beeef that up to a quaif soon)
PS .. i would like to keep this car more comfortable and less track like
so if i have to poly my mounts and get a 4 point harness i think you may have gone overboard








TIA 


_Modified by theVWrobot at 1:16 PM 9-13-2006_


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## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (theVWrobot)*

i'm using a garrett gt28rs turbo on my setup. it spools REALLY FAST!! as for how much boost on a stock bottom end ABA i wouldn't go to much past 15lb or 250hp, you'll have a chnce of blowing your rods past that. i used Pauter forged i-beam rods as some insurance on my engine. 
definitely get some ARP head studs. and i highly recommend using the stock cams. the valve clearance will be tight as it is.
lastly think about getting a limmeted slip differential. that extra power will reak havok on your stock one.
have fun with the project, i know i am. 
cheers


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## theVWrobot (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: (Norwestralley)*

really?.. i thought you can go pretty high on a tock ABA motor HP wise... so you say 250 max huh?... well ill save some money on the injectors and ill run some G60s since i got some 
WHAT ABOUT..the oil pump?
GOT STUDS!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: (theVWrobot)*

i pushed 25psi on my stock aba bottom end from ecology. rods ok....stock rings were the first thing to go tho....still the car ran strong low 13 ets in the 115 mph range....in my fat mk3 street car.
if your in socal ill give you a ride if you want. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by soch naungayan at 5:41 AM 9-14-2006_


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (soch naungayan)*

I ran 20psi daily without issue. ABA block is solid http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_I ran 20psi daily without issue. ABA block is solid http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I would think that you could squeeze around 300 whp on a bone stock 2.0L 16V ABA with no problem.
So long as you have a decent IC, AFR and no detonation going on.
The real beauty is that the software is already available and dialed in for this on the stock management.
Talk about a cheaper ass kicking alternative to a 1.8T swap.
Bolt on and boost


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## theVWrobot (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

sweet!... i think im going t3/t4 50 trim... log mani and 42 lbs injectors.. i could run bigger injectors but then id be pushin the limits of the motor.... ill the limit fuel until i beef up the internals .. i hope this gives me bout 300 hp
whata ya think?
*PLEASE EDUCATE ME ON THE OIL PUMP SWAP*
why is it so important?.. and im driving with the aba pump right now how bad is that?


_Modified by theVWrobot at 11:23 AM 9-14-2006_


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (theVWrobot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theVWrobot* »_sweet!... i think im going t3/t4 50 trim... log mani and 42 lbs injectors.. i could run bigger injectors but then id be pushin the limits of the motor.... ill the limit fuel until i beef up the internals .. i hope this gives me bout 300 hp
whata ya think?
*PLEASE EDUCATE ME ON THE OIL PUMP SWAP*
why is it so important?.. and im driving with the aba pump right now how bad is that?

_Modified by theVWrobot at 11:23 AM 9-14-2006_

If you have a 16v head on an ABA block and still using the ABA oil pump, then you are fine. Most people swap in a 9A intermediate shaft and oil pump.


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## theVWrobot (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_
If you have a 16v head on an ABA block and still using the ABA oil pump, then you are fine. Most people swap in a 9A intermediate shaft and oil pump.

why?
and im running 034 standalone w/a blockoff plate and a breather chute to the ground


_Modified by theVWrobot at 12:31 PM 9-14-2006_


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Makes it easier to run the 16v head I suppose. I can't remember now it's been a while since I don't any research on this project.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (theVWrobot)*

The oil pump on the aba is driven by the distributor. When you remove it to fit the 16v head, there is nothing to drive the pump. The 9a oil pump is driven a bit differently. Until BBM came out with the Dizzy Gizzy, there was no easy way to drive the ABA pump.


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## theVWrobot (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

so your telling me that my oil pump isnt being driven right now


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (theVWrobot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theVWrobot* »_so your telling me that my oil pump isnt being driven right now









It's possible. However, if you're using that dizzy gizzy or whatever parts that BahnBrenner offers to make it so you can use the ABA pump, you should be fine.


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## theVWrobot (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

sweet so im good!


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (theVWrobot)*

Just for the record, the 90 degree distributor cap does not fit and it will not work with a 16V head installed.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Just for the record, the 90 degree distributor cap does not fit and it will not work with a 16V head installed.

I know, but you can take apart the stock dizzy and cut the shaft and housing down to match so it fits about flush with the block and weld on a new hold down tab then it will.


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## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

heh anything will work with a little persuasion


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## Montana Tyler (Aug 10, 2006)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*

Is there anything to watch out for when adding a tdi crank? Do you need to change anything?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (mrk130)*

Ok, we put the parts together in an integration kit package.
You can save around $300 bucks by buying this package rather than just the pieces separately.
Hope this helps some people out with this bad ass head conversion!
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html












_Modified by JBETZ at 5:14 PM 9-19-2006_


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

For anyone thats doing this conversion....this is the way to go...i spent countless hours sourcing pieces for my 16v aba....ha no more time looking for 9a pieces at the jyd.....ill be def purchasing one since im putting the pieces togethor for a 2007 race motor.
good looking out john http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .

_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Ok, we put the parts together in an integration kit package.
You can save around $300 bucks by buying this package rather than just the pieces separately.
Hope this helps some people out with this bad ass head conversion!
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html








_Modified by JBETZ at 5:14 PM 9-19-2006_


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

I wish I had an ABA motor right now. I have a whole 16v motor sitting in my shed just collecting dust. Damn you AEG+


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## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

STOP PUTTING IDEAS IN MY HEAD!!!!!!
http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif the new kit though http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif
you guys never cease to amaze me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (crashnburn987)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crashnburn987* »_STOP PUTTING IDEAS IN MY HEAD!!!!!!
http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif the new kit though http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif
you guys never cease to amaze me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Why thank you








We are very excited about these new and lethal high performance value added combinations.


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## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

It's really cool that you guys are so stoked about this setup and are providing people a much easier way to source their parts! I just ordered some digi conversion pieces and a solid motor mount from you guys and it came within a day or two http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
I was wondering if JBETZ would have any idea of how much HP/torque would be possible with this setup running an Eaton M90 blower with a good intercooler, 3.5 bar fpr, and 440cc injectors? I know you guys are Lysholm people, but just for a ballpark guess, if you've got one...


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (evil-e)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evil-e* »_It's really cool that you guys are so stoked about this setup and are providing people a much easier way to source their parts! I just ordered some digi conversion pieces and a solid motor mount from you guys and it came within a day or two http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
I was wondering if JBETZ would have any idea of how much HP/torque would be possible with this setup running an Eaton M90 blower with a good intercooler, 3.5 bar fpr, and 440cc injectors? I know you guys are Lysholm people, but just for a ballpark guess, if you've got one...









Fitting an M90 would be a fairly tight squeeze.
There is a big difference in efficiency between roots type, centrifugal and screw type.
I'm not a physics engineer, however I know from experience that if you run higher boost pressure with the roots the heat will basically cancel any benefits even with a good IC.
If you keep them under around 10 psi they work pretty good.
I'd guess that you might gain a max of 60-70% power over NA with a good intercooled roots set up.
I had a guy yesterday tell me he was making 400 whp with his non intercooled 2.0L roots kit..., I kept my mouth shut, it gave me a little chuckle


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## hubbzVW (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Ok, we put the parts together in an integration kit package.
You can save around $300 bucks by buying this package rather than just the pieces separately.
Hope this helps some people out with this bad ass head conversion!
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html








_Modified by JBETZ at 5:14 PM 9-19-2006_

WOOOO HOOO http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Good job!


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: (evil-e)*

i dont think youll see more than 300whp with a eaton. on my old civic i had a jackson racing kit....eaton on it and that thing would get really hot really fast. basically i could dyno 180whp and then 160....150 and so on. too much heat. you couldnt even touch the blower. 
on the rabbit truck(the pic i posted earlier) i think the best its dyno'd is 260whp. and thats with headwork etc....but it is instant boost off idle.


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## Norwestralley (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

What size downpipe are you all using? Also is this something I'll need to fabricate?
Bye the way John, great packages your putting together. I just wish I'd waited longer before I started on my engine. (oh well)
cheer yall


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: (Norwestralley)*

2.5inch on Padilla's(gotta go bigger soon)...3inch on mine....tight squeeze.


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## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: (soch naungayan)*

I am also looking at the BahnBreanner 16V ABA kit, but I think a lot of it is not going to be needed by me in my case. I have countless access to used 16V motors for whatever parts are needed from them (I work at a VW shop with a small wrecking yard). I already have an OBD 1 ABA that I just purchased the other day, and many good 16V heads to choose from. I went to the BB site to pick up the fuel rail because it's on sale, and started looking at the whole swap kit. I am going to be running the ABA serp belt stuff, so the crank pully makes sense to purchase due to the wider 16V belt drive gear. The intmediate shaft pulley, and dizzy gizzy seem like components I could replace with 16V parts that I have access to (I have about 4 complete 16V motors at my disposal at the moment). I am curious if guys are running the small diameter 16V intermediate shaft pully, or a larger diameter one with the 150 toth belt?
Here is my thoughts on what my parts list is going to be composed of:
*This is all going into a MKII*
-OBD1 ABA (Stock bottom end- going turbo)-_already have_
-16V head-_already have_
-ABA serp belt system-_already have_
-16V intermediate shaft-_already have_
-Intermediate shaft timing belt gear (*Unsure which one yet!*)
-16V oil pump-_already have_
-Bahn brenner modified ABA crank pulley
-150T 1.8T timing belt
-42# injectors-_already have_
-Megasquirt and spark-_already have_ (Using crank trigger-going distributorless W/O EDIS)
I am basically concerned with any corrections needed to my engine parts list so I can complete my purchase from bahnbrenner, with out buying anything that I dont need due to the access to parts I have.
The motor awaiting parts.... and a car to put it all in to!


















_Modified by patatron at 11:38 PM 9-25-2006_


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## VwFreak94 (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

nice list, gives me ideas


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## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

why cant an intermediate shaft from a 1.8 16v block be used? i mocked up that with the gear and 16v 1.8L oil pump and everything lines up and turns smoothly.....i know the 2.0 pump creates more flow.....but couldnt u just source a 16v 2.0 pump and just use a 16v 1.8 intermediate shaft if u were worried about oil flow issues?


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drtbmxer* »_why cant an intermediate shaft from a 1.8 16v block be used? i mocked up that with the gear and 16v 1.8L oil pump and everything lines up and turns smoothly.....i know the 2.0 pump creates more flow.....but couldnt u just source a 16v 2.0 pump and just use a 16v 1.8 intermediate shaft if u were worried about oil flow issues?

the crankshaft will hit the 1.8L Intermediate shaft where it meshes with the oil pump drive. You can turn it down to use if you have a lathe or a good machine shop. try it and let us know, good luck.


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## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*

Im in the early planning stages of an aba 16v either turbo or g60, in a mk1. Ill be running digi1 with sns chip... i already have the bbm fuel rail, so instead of searching for all the 16v stuff what should i order from the bbm kit, and how will my list be different if i go g60 rather than turbo? any thoughts/ideas??? thnx...


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## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

so ur saying the gear part of the IM shaft will be hit by the crank?


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## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*

does anyone know, do you have to relocate the alt to fit the 16v head with lysolm???


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## mktrizzle (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: (2deepn2dubs)*

What do you do with the exaust manifold? Will the stock mk3 one fit?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_does anyone know, do you have to relocate the alt to fit the 16v head with lysolm???

Nope, our MkIII 2.0L SC kit all fits up fine with an ABA 2.0L 16V head conversion. You will need to cut the front injector rail off of the 16V intake manifold and tig weld it up. We can do this for you for $50
Here, check this link out.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2645353
You will also need to get one of these from us to clear the charger.
The one pictured is missing a bead, we sell them with both ends beaded. I'll ad this to the pic list to be updated.


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## mktrizzle (Dec 29, 2005)

What would you have to do to make this work on an obd2 motor and run the stock management? what do you do with the distributor?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (mktrizzle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mktrizzle* »_What would you have to do to make this work on an obd2 motor and run the stock management? what do you do with the distributor?

This is no difference on an OBD II engine.
Here is a link to our conversion integration with some information.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html
Here are the details on the distributor modification, thanks Andy-











_Modified by JBETZ at 7:40 AM 10-3-2006_


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

just ordered my conversion kit! cant wait to get it
pg.26 owned http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by VWDugan at 10:48 PM 10-3-2006_


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (VWDugan)*

What chips are being run on NA motors running aba motronic? If custom where are they from?


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (GTi_94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi_94* »_What chips are being run on NA motors running aba motronic? If custom where are they from?

Back when I was working on a 16v ABA project, I told C2 Motorsports the setup I was planning on running, and they quoted me about $200-$300 for a custom program. I was planning on running a turbo.


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

anyone have suggestions on a chip for an aba16vt in an obd2 jetta? I figure it probably wont be a good idea to run with the stock computer even though it has a giac chip


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (VWDugan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWDugan* »_anyone have suggestions on a chip for an aba16vt in an obd2 jetta? I figure it probably wont be a good idea to run with the stock computer even though it has a giac chip


We have software for OBD II Turbo or Super
$250
Have a great weekend


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I dont see the chip on your site john....the only thing I see that comes close is the 16vg60 chip.....do you have a link to it? and do you have some info on what the chip will support?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (VWDugan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWDugan* »_I don't see the chip on your site john....the only thing I see that comes close is the 16vg60 chip.....do you have a link to it? and do you have some info on what the chip will support?

The OBD II chips are not listed on our site separately.
42lb injector Stage III tune with a good IC will support approx. 250+ whp or about 290+ bhp.
I would estimate that you could squeeze even more with some 98-100 octane fuel.
One problem is the small t-body, tried sucking a watermelon through a straw lately








A swap to the VR6 unit will yield even more power.
We are working on another billet adapter for the VR t-body so you can bolt them right up.


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

well I have a short runner manifold with an unknown size TB on it. I will also be running 440cc injectors and a walbro 255 fuel pump. does that sound like it will work ok?
this is the mani....










_Modified by VWDugan at 7:28 PM 10-6-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (VWDugan)*

Sounds like it will work beautifully.


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

ok cool.....so what info do you need from me for me to order one of these chips??


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (VWDugan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWDugan* »_ok cool.....so what info do you need from me for me to order one of these chips??

Just call me up, give me your social security number, mothers maiden name and your bank account number and we can get it going for you.







jk, just call me with your cc # and addy.


----------



## Salmacis (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

@John;
How about the G60 or Audi S2 TB? 
Is any of those preferred over the VR6 TB?
Some background information:
I am building 350WHP ABA16VT @ 20psi (my goal anyways) and I was thinking about using the G60 throttle body, as my car is a Corrado G60, but now I am unsure.....maybe it's to small???
Also, do I need to do the distributor modification when running the 16V distributor in the 16V head?
Thanks in advance


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Salmacis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salmacis* »_@John;
How about the G60 or Audi S2 TB? 
Is any of those preferred over the VR6 TB?
Some background information:
I am building 350WHP ABA16VT @ 20psi (my goal anyways) and I was thinking about using the G60 throttle body, as my car is a Corrado G60, but now I am unsure.....maybe it's to small???
Also, do I need to do the distributor modification when running the 16V distributor in the 16V head?
Thanks in advance










What management are you planning?
The G60 t-body might be just a little small for 350whp, not sure about the S2unit.
The distributor question has been answered somewhere above in the 10,000 pages.


----------



## Salmacis (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
What management are you planning?
The G60 t-body might be just a little small for 350whp, not sure about the S2unit.
The distributor question has been answered somewhere above in the 10,000 pages.









Thank for your answer.
The Audi S2 unit is 65mm in diameter and sensors/connectors can be converted to fit the G60 connectors. I believe th S2 unit is a bit larger than the G60, I think it's about 60-61mm. I think I'll go for the S2 unit.
As to management, I guess I'll give Digi 1 (modified with 250kPa map sensor) and and a custom SNS chip a shot, and if it does not work out, I'm inclined to purchase an Autronic SM4 unit. I'veheard great things about it and competence exists in my wherabouts.
Btw. I'll be using the GT3071R











_Modified by Salmacis at 10:36 AM 10-7-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Salmacis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salmacis* »_
Thank for your answer.
The Audi S2 unit is 65mm in diameter and sensors/connectors can be converted to fit the G60 connectors. I believe th S2 unit is a bit larger than the G60, I think it's about 60-61mm. I think I'll go for the S2 unit.
As to management, I guess I'll give Digi 1 (modified with 250kPa map sensor) and and a custom SNS chip a shot, and if it does not work out, I'm inclined to purchase an Autronic SM4 unit. I'veheard great things about it and competence exists in my wherabouts.
Btw. I'll be using the GT3071R









_Modified by Salmacis at 10:36 AM 10-7-2006_


Sounds like an excellent project!
I'd like to see digi 1 make that kind of power.
I wouldn't bet or count on it, hope you prove me wrong.
That's a mighty big hair dryer your using there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Salmacis (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_

Sounds like an excellent project!
I'd like to see digi 1 make that kind of power.
I wouldn't bet or count on it, hope you prove me wrong.
That's a mighty big hair dryer your using there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Thanks, it's great fun








So, in your opinion.... would you say it'd be better off getting the Autronic standalone right away, i.e. save the $$$ spent for wideband logs and Digi chip mapping and spend it on the Autronic unit?
Yes, Killa on the forum talked me in to the "dryer"


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Salmacis)*

Sure, Autronic is good stuff.
Take a look at O34 also, you will get better support.
Or if your into a tight budget just go with Megasquirt system.
I'm doing one in my Rabbit on Megasquirt.


----------



## deltaforcehall (Jul 13, 2005)

what exhaust manifold do you run w/ this


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (deltaforcehall)*


_Quote, originally posted by *deltaforcehall* »_what exhaust manifold do you run w/ this

If you are going turbo it is the same set up as in a MkII chassis. You can use a turbo manifold that was set up for a MkII and also the down pipe.
If you go supercharged or NA you can use a factory 16V cast OEM manifold and down-pipe or a 16V MkII header.
It will bolt right up to your MkIII exhaust system.


----------



## deltaforcehall (Jul 13, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
If you are going turbo it is the same set up as in a MkII chassis. You can use a turbo manifold that was set up for a MkII and also the down pipe.
If you go supercharged or NA you can use a factory 16V cast OEM manifold and down-pipe or a 16V MkII header.
It will bolt right up to your MkIII exhaust system.

what do you mean... a manifold that was setup for a mk2 turbo... like an 8v manifold thats been extremely fabricated... still a lil confused. i have all the other parts.. this is holding meup


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (deltaforcehall)*


_Quote, originally posted by *deltaforcehall* »_
what do you mean... a manifold that was setup for a mk2 turbo... like an 8v manifold thats been extremely fabricated... still a lil confused. i have all the other parts.. this is holding meup

Any 16V MkII turbo manifold will fit.
Custom or mass produced.
MkII and MkIII with a 16V hook up the same to the exhaust.


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I have a 16v mani for sale if you want it....
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2866878


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

do i have to change my pistons on a aba obd1
or can i keep the oem and add a spacer ? to clear the valves...thanks


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (memoryred gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *memoryred gti* »_do i have to change my pistons on a aba obd1
or can i keep the oem and add a spacer ? to clear the valves...thanks

You can run the OBD I pistons not a problem.
They do have a scavenger boss in them.
You can have valve reliefs cut into them or you can grind them up with a dremel tool by hand. Just be sure to keep the weight of the pistons the same.
You could run the spacer gasket although your compression will be pretty darn low. If you were running our supercharger for boost this would not be that big of a deal as it makes good boost right off of idle. If you plan to run a turbo this low of compression will make it really sluggish off the bottom combined with the spool up time.
Most of these used 16V heads have been decked a time or two. Combine this with a decked block and your clearance could be to small and cause a valve to piston collision. I suggest that anyone doing this head conversion clay check the valve to piston clearance. We use Playdough. Basically you put clay in the combustion chamber and hand crank the engine over. Pop the head off and measure the thickness of the clay between where the valve opens and the piston comes up. You want no less than .050" clearance, I like about .070" minimum to be safe.


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

so basecly i can:
1- grind them up with a dremel tool by hand and put a oem head gasket
or
2-spacer gasket and dont grind ? right .


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (memoryred gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *memoryred gti* »_so basecly i can:
1- grind them up with a dremel tool by hand and put a oem head gasket
or
2-spacer gasket and dont grind ? right .









Yep, either way I would check the clearance just to be safe.


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

thanks john... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Screwed G60 (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: (memoryred gti)*

It has taken me a couple of evenings to read all 26 pages








So much great info...thank you to everyone that has contributed...you have made my research phase much easier. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I am building this motor for autox...in no rush to build it as my G60 is running just fine. (Basic Corrado rule - now something will break since I said this







)
This is my plan for the winter:
+ABA Block
- All new internals - 83mm BBM Forged Pistons / Brand new iRods / Knife Edged Crank / ARP Hardware
+2.0 16v Head
- Get the head p&p and rebuilt with HD Valve springs / Ti Retainers / Lightweight Lifters / Big Valves
+ Silenced Lysholm running 15psi for now w/ a FMIC
Going to do all of the necessary other parts (water pump, oil pump, timing belt, every gasket...)
I plan on picking up the BBM 16vG60 integration kit very soon, along with the Dizzy Gizzy and Drive Sprocket.
*My remaining questions are:*
1. Anybody have any pics of this setup? 
2. What starter and alternator would I use? G60? ABA? 16v?
3. What cam would you recommend running with this setup? 
4. Do I have to custom make the cooling hoses or can I use ones from other random vw's? 
Thanks in advance....picking up the block, head and intake manifold early next month....just want to get it all figured out before I dive in head first


----------



## Salmacis (Nov 29, 2005)

Just a quick question about bearings.....
Are you guys sticking with stock ABA rod- and main bearings? 
Will these bearings be adequate in high boost/WHP applications?
Thanks


----------



## cra2y86 (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (Salmacis)*

I have a question; if it's been answered already I apologize...
I have an ABA in my golf. I also have a 16v engine laying around. I want to do the head conversion. I will eventually go FI. My question is, what's the route to take that involves the least amount of work in the block? This is my daily, and down time is bad. Can I do the swap and run my ABA pistons until I save up for a blower? Or do they have to come out for relief cuts anyway? And will the CR be too low for NA?










_Modified by cra2y86 at 10:30 PM 10-15-2006_


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (cra2y86)*

your cars a '97 right?
That would make it OBDII, I hate to be the guy with the bad news, but OBDII pistons are different and will impact the valves.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (GTi_94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi_94* »_your cars a '97 right?
That would make it OBDII, I hate to be the guy with the bad news, but OBDII pistons are different and will impact the valves.

No they will not.


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re:*

for the obd1 cars what is the softwere used for this conv.
do you get a rrfpr or what ?


----------



## cra2y86 (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_No they will not.










Ok, so which is it?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (cra2y86)*

They will not hit with a stock cam. Mine hit the first time due to a incorrectly machined head.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (cra2y86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cra2y86* »_

Ok, so which is it?

Look up on this same page a few posts back.
I know, its easy to get lost in this thread








Oops it kicked into a new page.
Heheeem, one page back up a few posts.


----------



## Screwed G60 (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: (Screwed G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Screwed G60* »_
*My remaining questions are:*
1. Anybody have any pics of this setup? 
2. What starter and alternator would I use? G60? ABA? 16v?
3. What cam would you recommend running with this setup? 
4. Do I have to custom make the cooling hoses or can I use ones from other random vw's? 


Using a Lysholm with this setup, running about 15psi right now, going to use the BBM 16vG60 integration kit too. 
Can anybody help me out with these questions?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Screwed G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Screwed G60* »_
Using a Lysholm with this setup, running about 15psi right now, going to use the BBM 16vG60 integration kit too. 
Can anybody help me out with these questions?









1. Anybody have any pics of this setup? 
Are you looking for pics of a 16V Ltd. w/ Lysholm or the ABA SC 16V?
2. What starter and alternator would I use? G60? ABA? 16v?
ABA
3. What cam would you recommend running with this setup? 
The Euro intake cam is plenty.
4. Do I have to custom make the cooling hoses or can I use ones from other random vw's? 
What car is this going in?


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: Re: (memoryred gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *memoryred gti* »_for the obd1 cars what is the softwere used for this conv.
do you get a rrfpr or what ?

can some one help me on this ?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Re: (memoryred gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *memoryred gti* »_
can some one help me on this ?










We have it


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
We have it

John i think your my best friend







thanks
Boris

_Modified by memoryred gti at 4:17 PM 10-17-2006_


_Modified by memoryred gti at 5:23 PM 10-17-2006_


----------



## Screwed G60 (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
1. Anybody have any pics of this setup? 
Are you looking for pics of a 16V Ltd. w/ Lysholm or the ABA SC 16V?
2. What starter and alternator would I use? G60? ABA? 16v?
ABA
3. What cam would you recommend running with this setup? 
The Euro intake cam is plenty.
4. Do I have to custom make the cooling hoses or can I use ones from other random vw's? 
What car is this going in?


1. Yeah...the silenced lysholm ABA 16v. I heard that there are a couple other people with this setup and I was hoping to see some pics of how they routed the IC piping and cooling hoses. 
2. Thanks! Wanted to make sure to pick up the right one. 
3. The one you have on your site?...man you are going to be getting a lot of $ from me in the next couple of months








4. It is going into my 1990 Corrado. I just replaced most of the cooling hoses last month when I took out the stock oil cooler and added a Mocal Thermostatic kit. Can I salvage any of these hoses? 
Thanks again John and the everyone else that has contributed to this thread....great info! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Re: (JBETZ)*

Here is a new part for NA and Turbo configurations.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html


----------



## myfirstmk1 (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: Re: (JBETZ)*

i think i might have missed it...but is there details on the setup if your gonna go stand alone and turbo...im gettin the o34 motorsport stand alone...but anythin else different?


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

anybody have a pic of how they route the coolant hoses on the front of the block? Im still trying to figure this part out
thanks


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWDugan)*

Assuming you have a mk3, you can do the following:
If you don't have a supercharger in the way like I do, you can run a Passat 16v upper coolant hose and the factory coolant flange. The flange on the side of the head goes to the upper heater hose, which I believe you can also get off of a 16v Passat. 
For my supercharger I had to get a custom flange and a "u" bend to route the coolant around the charger.


----------



## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

ok i have a few quesions
i bought a tdi crank for 120 bucks 








i have a full 2.0 16v that was in my car and i put a aba in there now so i have both complete motors
i don't know what accessories to use the alt and water pump on the aba block
what crank pully should i use? i prefer the serp belt though
the o2a trans is in with hydro cluch and cable shift from a b3 psst
im using the aba block with 2.0 16v head 16v pistons with aba rods and tdi crank, so i assume i use the 16v wrist pins and bearings but what rod bearings should i use?
what headgaskit should i do? 2.0 16v?
that should be all for now im gonna try to throw this together.


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

you're going to need custom pistons or at least have the tops of the 9a pistons shaved....
9a pistons have a compression height of 29.6mm
the stroke of the tdi crank is 95.5, height of the aba block is 236 and has 159mm rods...
soo with some simple math, 
159 + (95.5 / 2 = 47.75) + 29.6 = 236.35
therefore, with the setup you propose you will have the pistons sticking up 0.35mm above the top of the block, thats not taking into account the fractions of mm's that are removed when the block it checked and decked for straightness.....
use the aba rod bearings (rods and rod bearings are a match set) 
supposedly the ABA gasket is stronger (metal)
you'll want to use the crank sprocket, cam sprocket, and IM sprocket from the 16v, so that the T-belt lines up (i think a 1.8T t-belt is required)
for engine accessories use which ever fit on the block, probably the aba..
cheers









edit: oh yeah i forgot....you might be better off getting a set of scat rods, 159mm with 20mm wrist pins.... reason for this is that ABA (159mm) rods have a 21mm wrist pins while the 9a pistons are 20mm..so you can have hte aba rods rebushed with 9a bushing (About 16$ each from the dealer) not to mention the price of getting them pressed in... 


_Modified by JediKGB at 12:59 PM 11-14-2006_


----------



## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (JediKGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JediKGB* »_you're going to need custom pistons or at least have the tops of the 9a pistons shaved....
9a pistons have a compression height of 29.6mm
*the stroke of the tdi crank is 95.5, height of the aba block is 236 and has 159mm rods...
soo with some simple math, 
159 + (95.5 / 2 = 47.75) + 29.6 = 236.35
therefore, with the setup you propose you will have the pistons sticking up 0.35mm above the top of the block, thats not taking into account the fractions of mm's that are removed when the block it checked and decked for straightness.....*
use the aba rod bearings (rods and rod bearings are a match set) 
supposedly the ABA gasket is stronger (metal)
you'll want to use the crank sprocket, cam sprocket, and IM sprocket from the 16v, so that the T-belt lines up (i think a 1.8T t-belt is required)
for engine accessories use which ever fit on the block, probably the aba..
cheers









edit: oh yeah i forgot....you might be better off getting a set of scat rods, 159mm with 20mm wrist pins.... reason for this is that ABA (159mm) rods have a 21mm wrist pins while the 9a pistons are 20mm..so you can have hte aba rods rebushed with 9a bushing (About 16$ each from the dealer) not to mention the price of getting them pressed in... 

_Modified by JediKGB at 12:59 PM 11-14-2006_

would i be able to stack gaskets? how many points do they take off i forget.

do you have a part number or a source for the rods? how much as well?


_Modified by 16V VW at 5:12 PM 11-14-2006_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (JediKGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JediKGB* »_you're going to need custom pistons or at least have the tops of the 9a pistons shaved....
9a pistons have a compression height of 29.6mm
the stroke of the tdi crank is 95.5, height of the aba block is 236 and has 159mm rods...
soo with some simple math, 
159 + (95.5 / 2 = 47.75) + 29.6 = 236.35
therefore, with the setup you propose you will have the pistons sticking up 0.35mm above the top of the block, thats not taking into account the fractions of mm's that are removed when the block it checked and decked for straightness.....
use the aba rod bearings (rods and rod bearings are a match set) 
supposedly the ABA gasket is stronger (metal)
you'll want to use the crank sprocket, cam sprocket, and IM sprocket from the 16v, so that the T-belt lines up (i think a 1.8T t-belt is required)
for engine accessories use which ever fit on the block, probably the aba..
cheers









edit: oh yeah i forgot....you might be better off getting a set of scat rods, 159mm with 20mm wrist pins.... reason for this is that ABA (159mm) rods have a 21mm wrist pins while the 9a pistons are 20mm..so you can have hte aba rods rebushed with 9a bushing (About 16$ each from the dealer) not to mention the price of getting them pressed in... 

_Modified by JediKGB at 12:59 PM 11-14-2006_
 The 9A pistons compression height is 1.4mm lower than ABF pistons(30.2 vs. 31.6. Did you assume zero deck height?). the TDi crank stroke pushes the pistons 1.35mm higher than a 9A crank so it is just about perfect (Although a little higher comp would be better) to use 9A pistons with rebushed ABA rods and a TDi crank.


----------



## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

does the tdi crank actually hit the oil squirts?


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (16V VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *""* »_
The 9A pistons compression height is 1.4mm lower than ABF pistons(30.2 vs. 31.6. Did you assume zero deck height?). the TDi crank stroke pushes the pistons 1.35mm higher than a 9A crank so it is just about perfect (Although a little higher comp would be better) to use 9A pistons with rebushed ABA rods and a TDi crank. 

oh yeah i forgot that the 9a pistons are supposed to poke up from the block just a tad...so that 1.4mm isnt really that much to worry about...sooo....9a pistons, scat rods with 20mm wrist pins, an aba block and TDI crank = 2.042liters of fun! and thats with stock bore..i'd go .5mm over if i could and just get bigger (oversized) rings...that way u dont need to get larger pistons....


_Quote, originally posted by *16V VW* »_
do you have a part number or a source for the rods? how much as well?
_Modified by 16V VW at 5:12 PM 11-14-2006_

for the rods, they are scat, and I got mine off of ebay or I believe bildon might sell them. I can't remember for sure. 
pics of mine...
















they cost $300 and come with ARP hardware already pressed in...plus their forged....


_Modified by JediKGB at 10:23 AM 11-15-2006_


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JediKGB)*

is there a way to relocate the alternator in a lower position on the serp setup? I ask this because I dont think my short runner is going to clear it. the car has no ac or ps btw


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JediKGB)*

These rods are made in China.
Still, they are a good deal for the money.
I think TJM launched a set of these through a block a few years back.








If you do not plan on breaking any world hp records they are good to go.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (JediKGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JediKGB* »_
i'd go .5mm over if i could and just get bigger (oversized) rings...that way u dont need to get larger pistons....

If you bore the block, you will need larger bore pistons.


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (VWDugan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWDugan* »_is there a way to relocate the alternator in a lower position on the serp setup? I ask this because I dont think my short runner is going to clear it. the car has no ac or ps btw

you could use this setup: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2899726 it places the alternator alot lower on the block. I have one that i sourced from a friend in the UK and it fits quite nicely..


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (psykokid)*

I haven't really venture through this thread, but as some more options and possibly just to save a few bux on an oil pump, etc: 
Since I doubt anyone is interested in running the ABA dist over the 16v Dist on the head, I removed the info about IM Shafts, Gears, etc.
You can swap the Shafts from an old 9a oil Pump into the much less expensive ABA oil pump. I don't think the PL has the recess notch on the Oil pump shaft becuase it does not have clearance issues as the 2Liters do, but irregardless.
Pics tell the story. oh, yea, you MUST have a press!
Click pics to enlarge:


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

so would it be better to use the scirocco intake manifold that goes to the right or the regular intake manifold that goes to the left


----------



## fostex (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_so would it be better to use the scirocco intake manifold that goes to the right or the regular intake manifold that goes to the left

I would like to know this as well.
Because, so far from what i have gathered on the vortex i know that the intake manifold with the driver side inlet is a good route if one is planning to add a bbm s/c. with a FMIC. Very easy to route that piping with the driver side inlet. (this is what i might do)
As for the manifold with the passenger side inlet, I am thinking that route would be good for an NA setup or maybe turbo.
Could anyone possibly add more information?


----------



## Screwed G60 (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: (fostex)*

I would say your description is correct. Most SC people get the scirocco intake mani (driver's side) becuase of the ease of running the piping. Depending on your NA or turbo setup you can do either or.


----------



## Scirocco_Clan_Man (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

I've got a 91 Jetta with an ABA swap. I'm running digi II soon to be megasquirt (just finishing up the wiring harness)
now for my questions
what would prevent you from using a 8v distributor as a block off plate (without actually connecting it to the coil) instead of BBM dizzy gizzy? IMO it should work fine should it not? 
ANother thing is, what would prevent you from actually using the 8v distributor and using the 16v one as the dummy.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Scirocco_Clan_Man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco_Clan_Man* »_I've got a 91 Jetta with an ABA swap. I'm running digi II soon to be megasquirt (just finishing up the wiring harness)
now for my questions
what would prevent you from using a 8v distributor as a block off plate (without actually connecting it to the coil) instead of BBM dizzy gizzy? IMO it should work fine should it not? 
ANother thing is, what would prevent you from actually using the 8v distributor and using the 16v one as the dummy.


You can leave the 8V dizzy in the whole.
It will need to be in there with the cap and rotor removed, as it will not clear the manifold at all.
Have a safe and happy Thanksgiving Holiday.


----------



## fostex (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (fostex)*

Bomb Building at BBM








Made for NA or Turbo only, does not fit with our supercharger kits.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html
















It also includes this for extra clearance.











_Modified by JBETZ at 3:10 PM 12-8-2006_


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*



JBETZ said:


> Bomb Building at BBM
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (memoryred gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *memoryred gti* »_


JBETZ said:


> Bomb Building at BBM
> 
> 
> 
> ...






JBETZ said:


> Sorry not nearly enough real estate there for such a large tube.
> Not even close to enough room, sorry.
> Would have made it fit if we could have.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

Awhile back I had some custom pistons and rods made to work with an offset ground diesel crank.
Anyway these parts were planned for a 1.8L block.
They would not clear.
Now we have mocked them up in an ABA and we are going to deck the block height down .200" to make this combo work.
Anyway, long story...
It made me think, you could also deck an ABA block down and use 9A pistons or also trim the ABA pistons for NA high compression application's.
This would save you the cost of buying new ABF pistons and you can shave this all down to your desired compression ratio.
Just be sure to clay check the valve to pistons clearance before you fire it up.
I know allot of guys are on a budget and this would be killer way to go high comp ABA 16V at a really low price point.
Just thinking out loud again.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Now we have mocked them up in an ABA and we are going to deck the block height down .200" to make this combo work.
Anyway, long story...
It made me think, you could also deck an ABA block down and use 9A pistons or also trim the ABA pistons for NA high compression application's.

Way too much to deck the block. You could not use ABA pistons for high comp because of the dish.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_Way too much to deck the block. You could not use ABA pistons for high comp because of the dish.

I'm decking .200"+ right now, no problem.
Just cut it off and degree the cams in.
Plus you don't need the ABF timing belt, using the stock 16V length.
You can also cut the ring off of the ABA pistons thus loosing the dish.
You also need to use ARP head studs as you are loosing some thread engagement.
Unless I'm missing somthing here, this will work fine with no problems.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

Block and pistons will be weakened too much by cutting that much off.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_Block and pistons will be weakened too much by cutting that much off.

There is nothing to weaken by cutting off the top of a block.
Cutting the squish ring off of a pistons does not make it weak or thinner either.
I own this page


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

you are getting too close to the water jackets of the block. With pistons, you get too close to the top ring land and/or the casting on the underside depending on the piston design. Try it and let us know how it does, how long it lasts, etc. I still think that is too much to take off. I even think the 1.4 mm (~.056") to make 9A pistons the "same" as ABF pistons would be too much.


_Modified by vwpat at 2:01 PM 12-11-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_you are getting too close to the water jackets of the block. With pistons, you get too close to the top ring land and/or the casting on the underside depending on the piston design. Try it and let us know how it does, how long it lasts, etc. I still think that is too much to take off. I even think the 1.4 mm (~.056") to make 9A pistons the "same" as ABF pistons would be too much.

_Modified by vwpat at 2:01 PM 12-11-2006_

I'm cutting the block right now and it is no problem with the water jackets.
Cutting the squish band off of a piston does not thin the thickness of the piston.
I'll mock it up with my radically decked ABA block, trim the squish ring off of some ABA pistons CC the whole bit and see what we come up with.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Cutting the squish band off of a piston does not thin the thickness of the piston.

Not an ABA piston, which is why I qualified it but it does reduce material above the ring land.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_Not an ABA piston, which is why I qualified it but it does reduce material above the ring land. 

I see your point on the ring land.
It would make more sense to chop the block down and use the 9A pistons.
I'll play with it and see what we get.


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

This has probably been covered a thousand times, but what all is needed for the distributor. Is the best way to do it to rip apart an ABA dizzy and put it all in a 16v dizzy? Any How-To's or DIY's on this?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (djsheijkdfj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *djsheijkdfj* »_This has probably been covered a thousand times, but what all is needed for the distributor. Is the best way to do it to rip apart an ABA dizzy and put it all in a 16v dizzy? Any How-To's or DIY's on this? 

You got it.
You can either run our dizzy gizzy or swap over the 16V intermediate shaft, pump and distributor. You need to swap the hall sensor into the 16V distributor and rotate it.











_Modified by JBETZ at 7:26 AM 12-20-2006_


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

Alright. Seems easy enough.


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
You got it.
You can either run our dizzy gizzy or swap over the 16V intermediate shaft, pump and distributor. You need to swap the hall sensor into the 16V distributor and rotate it.









_Modified by JBETZ at 7:26 AM 12-20-2006_


that looks alot like bmg50's diagram








either way before I tore into it I was nervous too,but its actualy quite easy.....allbut a little delicate if your a hamfisted one like me








john havent hasseled you guys in a long while over the phone







but any chance of you guys being able to find any abf head parts namely valves







I was tweaking the car a bit and forgot a wrench somewhere as I wanted to take up a bit of cam belt slack while in there







or just wait till the next time I go over sea's


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (not SoQuick)*

I'm guilty, it is his pic
Thanks again for being a ginipig Andy








We have valves, ss, inconel...ect
What are you looking for?
email me or shoot me a call
[email protected]
Santa better bring me some good **** this year!


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*



JBETZ said:


> I'm guilty, it is his pic
> Thanks again for being a ginipig Andy
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

so what fuel rail is everyone running on an obd1 car, seen one one on bbm's site, can this be used with my stock fp regulator? Also I am going to run an N/A motor I already have 9a pistons (10.5 to one, not sure what stock is) what is my comp ratio? and how much do I deck head or block to raise it to around 10.5 to one maybe run a thinner head gasket too, but which one

_Modified by lowdowndirtydubs at 11:20 PM 12-25-2006_


_Modified by lowdowndirtydubs at 8:05 AM 12-26-2006_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lowdowndirtydubs* »_so what fuel rail is everyone running on an obd1 car, seen one one on bbm's site, can this be used with my stock fp regulator? Also I am going to run an N/A motor I already have 9a pistons (10.5 to one, not sure what stock is) what is my comp ratio? and how much do I deck head or block to raise it to around 10.5 to one maybe run a thinner head gasket too, but which one

_Modified by lowdowndirtydubs at 11:20 PM 12-25-2006_

_Modified by lowdowndirtydubs at 8:05 AM 12-26-2006_

Yes, you can run our new billet fuel rail with our new style fpr adpt.
Pretty sure the 9A pistons sit down in the block and you do not want to run them this way as the compression and squish will be way off.
I have a theory that you can deck the block down to run these pistons in the ABA without any issues and get your NA high compression number.
I just decked .160" off of a stoker ABA engine, no problem.
Just lots of material removal.
cc the head, the pistons and do some math, pretty sure you can do this without any problems.
Be sure to degree your cams in with a degree wheel and indicator.


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

what is the *correct* procedure for degreeing a cam, and where can I get a wheel for doing so


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lowdowndirtydubs* »_what is the *correct* procedure for degreeing a cam, and where can I get a wheel for doing so

You can get the wheel or full kit from jegs or summit.
There is also info on the procedure on the Internet if you search for it.


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

just talked to collin at TT and he said remove .040 total to achieve this or offset the wristpin bushing the same amount for 10 to one compression with aba rods and 9a pistons

_Modified by lowdowndirtydubs at 8:04 PM 12-28-2006_


_Modified by lowdowndirtydubs at 10:19 PM 12-29-2006_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lowdowndirtydubs* »_I just cc'd this and you need to remove approximately .026 off the block plus the thickness of the head gasket (i didn't have one so I ran the calculations without including it) this will yield approximately 10.8 to one c/r. (I rounded to 2 decimal places). thanks for all the help guys
I think it needs more since the rebushed 9A piston combo sits 1.4 mm (~.056") lower than the correct ABF pistons that yield 10.5:1 advertised (~10.1:1 actual).


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*

I would say shave the piston squish ring down to a flat top and then zero deck the block to it. Or you could make the pistons proud at .030" The stock gasket thickness is right at .065-.070" when compressed.


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## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

I talked to collin at TT, he said that I could get offset wristpin bushings (.040 offset) He said any good machine shop could make them for me. The problem is I only have one in my area and he is not very good. has anyone else done this and where'd you get the bushings


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*

I'm going to call TT and talk to Collin about this.
Pretty sure .040" will not yield enough offset or get you there.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

Instead of decking the block you could use a TDI crankshaft, that should make up most of the difference. and you get .05 L extra volume


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_Instead of decking the block you could use a TDI crankshaft, that should make up most of the difference. and you get .05 L extra volume

Ah yes, this is a great way to go.
I have one of these cranks if anyone needs it.
The ABA I'm building right now is getting one of these off-set ground another 2mm for even more stroke or nearly 2.2L


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

So 97.5mm throw? how does this it rev with that crank? did you have it knife edged? 
I see eurospec has 100mm crank for a 2.2L+ but I would be scared of the piston velocity at high rpm's with that much of a stroke.
I think jose at port tuning was looking to have a batch of 99mm cranks made.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_So 97.5mm throw? how does this it rev with that crank? did you have it knife edged? 
I see eurospec has 100mm crank for a 2.2L+ but I would be scared of the piston velocity at high rpm's with that much of a stroke.
I think jose at port tuning was looking to have a batch of 99mm cranks made.

Yes, 97.5 with custom made rods bunny small journal.
I made the pistons lighter by shortening the skirt and pushing the pin up.
Yes, we also knife edged, nitride, polished and of course balanced the crank.
With the custom rods, crank and pistons it should still be a good rpm engine to I hope around 7.5k rpm.


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I'm going to call TT and talk to Collin about this.
Pretty sure .040" will not yield enough offset or get you there.


did you come up with a different amount to deck the block for 10to1?


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*

also what coolant hoses are you guys running on this set-up? (vw part #'s please)


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lowdowndirtydubs* »_also what coolant hoses are you guys running on this set-up? (vw part #'s please)

Upper head to the bubble tank is a Passat 16V
Mid hose, oil cooler is what should be any Golf/Jetta 9A 16V
Heater hose should also be any Golf/Jetta 9A 16V
Lower is any ABA 8V


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lowdowndirtydubs* »_
did you come up with a different amount to deck the block for 10to1? 

I'm not sure what the exact number is, I'd have to mock it up to be sure and it could vary.
Since some blocks and heads have been decked this should be checked at the time of build anyway.
It is a small enough amount that you can just deck it off the block, zero deck your pistons. I would think that this would be much easier than doing offset bushings. 
There are also plenty of compression ratio calculators on internet.
The CC of a 16V head is about 45cc.
The 9A pistons are flat tops.
The gasket is about .065" when squished.
There you go, zero deck the block and plug in the numbers, bore stroke ect...
As I have said prior you could go about .020-.030" proud with the pistons to bring the compression up a bit higher.
Have fun with it.


----------



## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

Does anyone have a good, coherent how-to on this swap? I know there's a lot of info here, but it's for a lot of different applications and ideas... it's a little messy to try and sort through.
I'm looking at doing this conversion on a '99 mkIII, using BBM's kit and possibly their 16v intake manifold. I'm curious how much more actually needs done to run (preferrably) naturally aspirated AND what problems I'll have with OBDII compliance and any possible ECU issues. Emissions is not a problem for me, as long as I don't have a light.
How much more would I need with this?:
- Complete 16v head
- 16v distributor, plugs, wires and whatnot (coil?)
- BBM 16v head swap kit
- BBM 16v intake manifold with mk3 ABA throttle body adapter
- stock 16v exhaust manifold or header
- appropriate gaskets
The kit has (if you didn't know) the intermediate shaft pulley, crank pulley, fuel rail, pressure regulator adapter, injector cups, timing belt, coolant hoses and flange.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ninety9gl)*

I can help you, we have built a few of these now.
We are also working on our turn key 2.0L ABA 16V engine packages right now.
It is pretty straight forward, you have the meat and potatoes of this conversion.
Are you going NA, Super or Turbo?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

This one was fun


----------



## Screwed G60 (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

^^^That is HOT!!! John you never cease to amaze me







for you
Have any of you guys heard anything about this 16vG60 kit?
http://shop.rpm-tuning.com/pro...d/271
John...can this intake manifold work with your Lysholm charger?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Screwed G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Screwed G60* »_^^^That is HOT!!! John you never cease to amaze me







for you
Have any of you guys heard anything about this 16vG60 kit?
http://shop.rpm-tuning.com/pro...d/271
John...can this intake manifold work with your Lysholm charger? 

Thank you for the compliment.
We did this engine awhile back, been a few since then.
I just like the way it looks.
I've never seen this, interesting looking.
Not sure if that manifold will fit with our compressor?
Thanks again


----------



## juan23vw (Nov 20, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

I have an adapter plate i am selling for $50 shipped that fits the ABA throttle body to a 16v Intake manifold. alot of other stuff for this swap and more, but I wrecked my car. search my items or my name. 
Great option since the BBM's cost $150.


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## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

hey i was curious what you guys thought about the abf intake manifold it seams like the top half is longer then the bottom and it looks like the TB opening is already the same as the mk3 ones does anyone know how this compares to sya the 50mm intake manifold


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

I'm not sure about aspiration yet... I'm trying to figure that one out, if I do decide to take on the project. I'm wondering if it's easier to go NA and use the ABF pistons or just leave the bottom end together and get a turbo kit (which would also cover me for an exhaust manifold).


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

oh yea also does the 2.0 TB bolt right up to the abf manifold and is it like a bigger bore then the 50mm or smaller anyone know any performance diferences between them and would the BBM fuel rail work with the abf manifold


----------



## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: (jordan92o)*

Put on a stock manifold the other day and it hits my turbo, and it's too much to clearance, so I'm in the market for SRI's now.
I see that BBM makes one, it looks really nice but it's $$$... what other options do I have?


----------



## show-n-with-hubs (May 25, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

does anyones have any pics of this done? and what are the expected hp and tq numbers for this project... before and after a supercharger?


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## DutchcaribbeanGTI (Dec 7, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (show-n-with-hubs)*

A question for the aba/16v guru's out there. 
Do you guys use the aba crank gear bolt or do you use the 16v crank gear bolt. 
Anybody knows an online site where I could order the 16v crank gear bolt.
And finally: can you or can't you use the aba distributor in the block with a Fiat distributor cap.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DutchcaribbeanGTI)*

I got my crank bolt at the dealer, but I do know that BBM has one on their site. 
Edit: here it is:
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=233


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## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DutchcaribbeanGTI)*

you want to use the 16v crank gear bolt because you need to use the 16v gear wich is bigger, hence using the longer 16v bolt


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*

NA kit is now ready to go!
Hope this helps some of you mad men.
http://bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi....html


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

is that cold air setup gonna add any real power with that kind of tubing


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

and do you guys sell just that chip by itself and for how much if you do and what kind of power does it add


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_oh yea also does the 2.0 TB bolt right up to the abf manifold and is it like a bigger bore then the 50mm or smaller anyone know any performance diferences between them and would the BBM fuel rail work with the abf manifold

No, but an obd 1 VR6 throttle body does bolt up. The ABF manifold is larger than 50mm. It has its own specific fuel rail and side feed injectors. I'm sure the longer and larger runners help N/A applications. Someone had ABF manifolds that were VWMS versions that were extrude honed out for even more. They used to use them in the rally cars so they must be good for some gains.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_is that cold air setup gonna add any real power with that kind of tubing

You bet, 3" all the way.
Once the air gets up to the t-body area it has plenty of smooth area to straighten out and increase final velocity before hitting the manifold.
This this is way overkill in the air intake department.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_and do you guys sell just that chip by itself and for how much if you do and what kind of power does it add

Yes, we can sell just the chip for $100
The power will depend on the performance parts, cam exhaust ect... that you use.


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

BBM wouldnt happen to make or be able to make a fuel rail for the abf manifold would im finding alot of abf manifolds that dont include the fuel rails or anything


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

also it seems like alot of people quit on doing this swap is it that hard or are people just dont feel like doing it. how would this stand up againt a vr6 car not just numbers but like in a actual race


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

i just noticed something your kti changed there only 2 hoses instead of 3 now and some other things why is it diffferent now


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_BBM wouldnt happen to make or be able to make a fuel rail for the abf manifold would im finding alot of abf manifolds that dont include the fuel rails or anything

I would bet that our 16V rail will work.
You might need to tweak something a bit, but I bet it would work.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_i just noticed something your kti changed there only 2 hoses instead of 3 now and some other things why is it diffferent now

We updated the picture to also include the 16V timing belt tensioner.
This third hose is included we are updating the pic.
Thanks for pointing this out


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_also it seems like alot of people quit on doing this swap is it that hard or are people just dont feel like doing it. how would this stand up againt a vr6 car not just numbers but like in a actual race

We have a ton of people buying the parts and the kit for this conversion!
We also building four engines with this conversion right now.
BBM is slammed with work and it is crazy over here right now.
We can handle more








Thanks guys!


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

you guys wouldnt happen to be building an engine with that abf manifold would you


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_you guys wouldn't happen to be building an engine with that abf manifold would you

The only NA ABA 16V we have done is that t-body engine.
All the rest have been supercharged or turbo engines.
I've never even seen an ABF manifold.


----------



## karmanndubs6292 (Jul 12, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I've never even seen an ABF manifold.


There are two listings on eBay for the ABF manifold, both have decent pictures. I have this manifold, fuel rail, and TB. The fuel rail on this manifold actually fits underneath the manifold itself. The TB is good size, probably as big if not bigger then a VR6, I have not compared the two side by side so I don't know for sure. 








And no, that's not my engine bay...











_Modified by karmanndubs6292 at 1:43 PM 1-19-2007_


----------



## RonWhite30311 (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: (karmanndubs6292)*

This whole thread is beginning to be confusing... I want to boost a 2.0L/16V in a MK2 Golf... the motor is currently in a MK1 Cabby...I have looked at several turbo kits, the BBM 16V/g60 kit (which is what I wanted) and now the 16V/ABA swap plus turbo set up... There are too many things to choose from... The BBM kit is no longer for sale (as well as expensive as a mofo!!!) so I guess I need to go turbo...
Why don't one of you gurus let me tell you what I have and you tell me what I need to get a MK2 to get some boost going... IM me...
Ron


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (RonWhite30311)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RonWhite30311* »_This whole thread is beginning to be confusing... I want to boost a 2.0L/16V in a MK2 Golf... the motor is currently in a MK1 Cabby...I have looked at several turbo kits, the BBM 16V/g60 kit (which is what I wanted) and now the 16V/ABA swap plus turbo set up... There are too many things to choose from... The BBM kit is no longer for sale (as well as expensive as a mofo!!!) so I guess I need to go turbo...
Why don't one of you gurus let me tell you what I have and you tell me what I need to get a MK2 to get some boost going... IM me...
Ron

Our Mk3 2.0l SC kit bolts right up with this ABA 16V head conversion, plus we are in the midst of building one serious turn key turbo package.
All you need to do is decide what route to go big torque curve or a big hp number or both and we can set it all up for you.


----------



## RonWhite30311 (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

HP is cool, but I'd rather put my power on the pavement...


----------



## RonWhite30311 (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: (RonWhite30311)*

AND KEEP A/C... I live in GA!!!


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (RonWhite30311)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RonWhite30311* »_AND KEEP A/C... I live in GA!!!

Yes, you can of course retain your AC.
It gets pretty darn Hot here in Bend in summer also


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

hey john.....what fuel rail are you using on "da bomb" in this pic?








and how can I get my hands on one of them? I had the standard BBM 16v fuel rail but it wasnt going to work on my SRI......so would it be possible to get one thats basically the same just without the longer runners for the injectors like in the pic?


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

i wonder if a shorter fuel rail like that would fit under the abf manifold


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (VWDugan)*

This is a BBM 16V rail with the legs machined down.
If your rail is the new plug in leg design we can machine yours down for $30


----------



## RonWhite30311 (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Why did guys ever discontinue the 16V g60 swap set up in the first place? Us backyard builders wanted to buy this one piece at a time... (from the funds aspect) I really want to do this in a GTI, but you guys no longer sell it! Can you buy it one or two ro three pieces at a time for the budgeteers or what? What gives on the discontinuation?

_Modified by RonWhite30311 at 7:15 PM 1-30-2007_


_Modified by RonWhite30311 at 7:40 PM 1-30-2007_


----------



## VWDugan (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

well I sold the rail before I realized the other one wouldnt work. would a 20v rail work on a 16v? I think the spacing is the same for the injectors. and mounting doesnt matter seeing as I am using a full custom manifold


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (RonWhite30311)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RonWhite30311* »_Why did guys ever discontinue the 16V g60 swap set up in the first place? Us backyard builders wanted to buy this one piece at a time... (from the funds aspect) I really want to do this in a GTI, but you guys no longer sell it! Can you buy it one or two ro three pieces at a time for the budgeteers or what? What gives on the discontinuation?

_Modified by RonWhite30311 at 7:15 PM 1-30-2007_

_Modified by RonWhite30311 at 7:40 PM 1-30-2007_

We are in the process of making another small batch of the 16V Ltd. integration kits right now and taking orders. They are shipping out by the end of Feb.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (VWDugan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWDugan* »_well I sold the rail before I realized the other one wouldnt work. would a 20v rail work on a 16v? I think the spacing is the same for the injectors. and mounting doesnt matter seeing as I am using a full custom manifold

Pretty sure the 20V rail is a different animal all together.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

How much for a 16vt [email protected] BBM


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (djsheijkdfj)*

I had a similar problem with the 16v mani switched to one from a rocco and it clears a pretty big turbo








I did have to smooth out one bolt mount off the passenger back side but like I said its a big turbo back there


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

cool thread thanks guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

I have been asked a couple of times now for more detail on the distributor window swap so I thought I would post more detailed instructions here.
For those of you who know what I'm talking about please feel free to let me know if there are any errors or anything I left out.









The distributor is fairly simple to figure out. 
There are two things that need to be changed in order for it to work properly with factory management. 
The 16v distributor normally comes with 4 shutter windows on the hall sensor. 
The ABA Motronic only requires one. 
The 16v turns counterclockwise, the 8v turns clockwise.
On the regular 8v distributor the shutter window will have just passed the pickup just as the rotor reaches tdc mark.
What you have to do is align the single window on the 16v distributor the same way. What makes this tricky for most people is the counterclockwise rotation of the 16v distributor. 
What you do is point the rotor towards the #1 tdc mark and then put the shutter window in the position where it is just past the sensor. You 
will want the trailing edge of the window to line up with the edge of the pickup assembly and not just the metal bit. 








To do this you will need to remove the shutter windows from both distrbutors. 
The 8v distributor has a pin that holds the drive gear on. You will need to drive this out so that the gear comes off (this can be difficult 
since it is peaned over). Next the shutter and shaft come out. The shutter will then need to be pressed off the shaft. 
The next step is to remove the retaining spring and pin from the 16v distributor and remove the assembly from the 16v distributor. 
Once the shutter window is removed you should swap the actual pickups since the 8v part is a bit larger and will rub on the 16v pickup. 
You should then align the shutter window so that it is just past the pickup and then press it back together. The shaft is splined so the 
alignment should be fairly easy. Press it all back together, reassemble and your good to go. 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 12:48 AM 2-8-2007_


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
all I would add from my experience is 
1:to be gentle with the part of the 16v dizzy that rides in the cam .....it is hardened steel and can be a little brittle if too much force is applied








2: to keep track of any and all shims in the dizzy and reassemble with them as they came out.
3:I had mine appart a few times and too me the fit on the splines between the window and shaft seemed less than ideal,I decided to use a small bit of epoxy to ensure it stays together........allthough this may not be nessicary especialy if you get it right the first time and are carefull when pressing it appart to do it squarely.
I might still be messing with this if it wasnt for bmgfifty http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
now if I could just keep a tranny together


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: (VWDugan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWDugan* »_well I sold the rail before I realized the other one wouldnt work. would a 20v rail work on a 16v? I think the spacing is the same for the injectors. and mounting doesnt matter seeing as I am using a full custom manifold

The injector spacing is exactly the same on the 20V and 16V and works fine if you're doing a custom manifold anyway. I had one on this manifold I built before I sold it. I decided to just build it N/A. 
Sold off all of my turbo setup and bought the ABF pistons and a euro 50mm manifold. Motor is going in next weekend. Next it's getting megasquirt running distributorless w/ the ABA VR sensor for timing. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to BBM again on great service. I ordered the ABF pistons and recieved them the next day







.


----------



## SilverCQ (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (evil-e)*

lol, nice manifold.....we're almost twins


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (SilverCQ)*

can an OBD2 engine and management be used with ABF pistons?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (GTi_94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi_94* »_can an OBD2 engine and management be used with ABF pistons?


Yep, just use the proper chip


----------



## GTi_94 (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

does BBM make a OBD2 chip?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (GTi_94)*

Yes they do, they also have a fantastic SC chip (what I'm running now)


----------



## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

One quick question, how will my stock 2.0 aba obd2 ecu work with a 16v head? i am going to run a obd1 aba bottom end with a 2.0 16v head. The head will be heavily cleaned up. I plan on going turbo during the summer time. And will then get a chip from either bbm or c2.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (malibu1228)*

Since the factory ecu is MAF based the increased flow is compensated for by the ecu. In order to run it you need to swap out the hall sensors as mentioned earlier on this page and do a few other things as well. 
Or were you asking how well does it work, which in that case perfect.


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## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

Yea I know what parts I need and am starting to collect them. I was asking how well it works with stock ecu and am glad to hear it will be fine. One more question, how is the car going to feel with 8.5:1? Quick? Anything


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (malibu1228)*

You should make some mad power








300+ hp is not a problem with this set up t3/t4 with an IC http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You could buy our new turn key 300+hp turbo kit, hint hint


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (malibu1228)*

I drove mine na with low cr for a little bit and I think it was alot better than the 8v high cr combo.it may have been somewhat placebo (sp?)effect but the car ran fine and pulled alot better on the top end.You deffinately could tell it was nowhere near its potential and was lacking compression but imo it was still a massive improvement over the 8v and fun to drive.


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: (evil-e)*

Well, it's been two weeks since I got the motor done and installed. Still breaking it in, not beating on too much yet. 
For anyone considering running one of these ABA/16V's naturally aspirated. I'd say DO IT! I had a tired 9A 2.0 16V in my gli, which still ran fairly well aside from an increasingly louder bottom end knock, but this tall block setup kicks mucho ass over the old motor. Runs smoother, pulls harder up top and doesn't feel like it's running out of steam.
I'm running the ABF pistons I picked up from BBM along with the breather blockoff plate, BBM billet front motor mount, G60 trans mount, early style rear mount w/ poly insert, ported and polished 1.8 16V head w/ Autotech Cams and TT springs, Eurosport Race header w/ TT 2.25" exhaust, 50mm euro manifold, Eurospec Sport lightweight flywheel (also from BBM), GIAC motronic chip running CIS for now while I'm still gathering up the stuff for megasquirt. I ordered my ECU from patatron for distrubutorless since the ABA has the 60-2 trigger wheel built in. My goal once tuned on MS is 160-170 whp.
























Thanks again to BBM and their great service/products. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Since the factory ecu is MAF based the increased flow is compensated for by the ecu. In order to run it you need to swap out the hall sensors as mentioned earlier on this page and do a few other things as well. 
Or were you asking how well does it work, which in that case perfect.


You could always use a voltage clamp to correct the issue.......


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (evil-e)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evil-e* »_
I'm running the ABF pistons I picked up from BBM along with the breather blockoff plate, BBM billet front motor mount, G60 trans mount, early style rear mount w/ poly insert, ported and polished 1.8 16V head w/ Autotech Cams and TT springs, Eurosport Race header w/ TT 2.25" exhaust, 50mm euro manifold, Eurospec Sport lightweight flywheel (also from BBM), GIAC motronic chip running CIS for now while I'm still gathering up the stuff for megasquirt. I ordered my ECU from patatron for distrubutorless since the ABA has the 60-2 trigger wheel built in. My goal once tuned on MS is 160-170 whp.

NOOOIIICEE! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_
NOOOIIICEE! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks man. And thanks to all who made this a great thread.


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (evil-e)*

Some pictures of my 16v ABA engine!
























And to throw a lot of you for a loop...


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

That is hotness! What is it in?


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

the only guess i have would have to be a FOX i know those engines are side ways http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

I love that block off plate


----------



## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

alot of great info. could a moderator clean the useless posts out of it for us, as there isalot of clutter in there


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## greekin2 (Sep 26, 2006)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

what is the alternator bracket off of? ABA or ABF? good job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_I love that block off plate









yes, it's very nice! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_That is hotness! What is it in?

It's in an Audi 90 chassis...so it's got quattro.








The alt and bracket are ABF, as is the belt and t-belt covers.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (NoNonsense)*

off subject....but i hate when i cant find what i need when i have money.......








I'm looking for some stock cr obd2 8v pistons for 16v conversion!
I see some arias pistons for 497 but dont know how repetable they are.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_off subject....but i hate when i cant find what i need when i have money.......








I'm looking for some stock cr obd2 8v pistons for 16v conversion!
I see some arias pistons for 497 but dont know how repetable they are.

We have forged 83mm units on the shelf with 16V reliefs cut in.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

The ones i had came from you but i dont have the money to dish out on the new set i need.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_The ones i had came from you but i dont have the money to dish out on the new set i need.

Just keep in mind that there are a ton of people listing piston prices minus the rings and or pins. 
We have a couple sets on the shelf so if you come into some extra skrilla just let me know, thanks


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Just keep in mind that there are a ton of people listing piston prices minus the rings and or pins. 
We have a couple sets on the shelf so if you come into some extra skrilla just let me know, thanks









That will do..... but another thing is that bbm doesnt accept paypal......


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_
That will do..... but another thing is that bbm doesn't accept paypal......

There is good reason, the rates are horrible and there is no fraud protection for vendors.
You can use your PayPal credit card with us.


----------



## Triple G (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Iv searched but can't find the answer Im looking for..
Ill be using a OBD1 Bottom end, ABA rods and pistons. The head I just got has Schrick 276s in it right now. 
My question is will I have any trouble with the valves hitting the piston? I know Im safe with stock cams.
Im pretty sure these are the specs for the cams if it helps:
• 11.5mm Lift (Intake / Exhaust)
• Overlap Intake: 110°
• Overlap Exhaust: 110°
Just making sure.
Pic for fun:








Thanks


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Triple G)*

Rig it all up and check the clearance with clay or Playdo
I use Playdo








You should also do this with the stock cams when converting to this set up just to be safe.
Many engines and heads that are this old have been decked down.


----------



## Triple G (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Do I cover each of the pistons and then turn the engine over once?
Not to sure about the cly thing...
Edit:
Set both things to TDC. Used some putty and torqued the head down.
Plenty of clearance










_Modified by Triple G at 2:55 PM 4-4-2007_


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (Triple G)*

did you rotate the engine one time with the t-belt installed?


----------



## Triple G (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

No, but I was planning on it.


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

what spark plugs should I run for a high compression engine


----------



## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

so i just read this ENTIRE post, and thanks to many of you. There will be another 16VabaT running soon.


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Folks, excellent thread ... forgive me if I will sound a bit dense







... I am acquiring the parts for this swap -- ABA16VT _using Corrado Digi1 (car already has full G60 turbo setup)_ into an A2 GLI.
I just want to make absolutely sure:
1) I have OBD1 ABA complete engine
2) I have 2L 16V Head, Intake mani, and Intermediate shaft.
3) I have 02A from 2L 16v Passat (going to do cable clutch convo)
*What other NON-ABA parts do I need if I am going to use all ABA accessories (alt., PS, Water pump, and AC)????
I still need the 16v Oil Pump? Anything else? Any way to use ABA Dizzy (w/ 4 window swap) INSTEAD of 16v Dizzy? What ARP Head Studs do I use? (I just bought 8V UC ones when it was just going to be an ABA Turbo.)*








ABA's are more prevalent, I want to use the least amount I can from the 16v (no offense







), because I have been LIVING at the JY and I can find ABA's ALL DAY LONG. A 16V is like the Do-Do bird ... rarer than rare.
Thanks (and I am re-reading the entire thread too to make sure I didn't miss any answers, as well as reviewing here.)


_Modified by papichulo7 at 3:19 PM 4-10-2007_


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## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

You will need the 2.0 16v intermediate shaft with timing gear, oil pump and crank timing pulley. You cant use the aba dizzy as there is nothing to drive it and it wont fit with a 16v manifold. You are going to need 16v studs, 8v=8vstuds 16v=16vstuds, the pitch and thread are all the same. Hope this clears things up for you.
Also if you cant find parts from a 9a, bbm makes some slick parts just for the aba16v.


----------



## DJNacka (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

trying to get this swap going as we speak


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*

i built my 16v aba last year and it ran way better than i expected..for a stock bottom end. 
im now putting together my now built bottom end together. i have been taking pictures of everyhthing. LMK if you guys want me to post pics of why you need the 9a parts(vs the 8v aba) to make the combo work.


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## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soch naungayan* »_i built my 16v aba last year and it ran way better than i expected..for a stock bottom end. 
im now putting together my now built bottom end together. i have been taking pictures of everyhthing. *LMK if you guys want me to post pics of why you need the 9a parts(vs the 8v aba)* to make the combo work. 

Yes please








BTW, I went back to the JY and just got the whole 9A bottom end so that now I have the whole 9A and a whole ABA. I just want to use as much ABA as possible/as little 9A as possible.
Just curious, why you putting together a "built" bottom end after just a year? Any problems with the stock bottom end? Thanks


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*

im probably gonna make a seperate aba 16v build thread with pics...
but to answer your question......
the aba piston's were fine. not a single problem....rods were ok. the only consistant failure was the rings. they could not hold over 20psi at the track under load...twice(besides the pressure plate).
so....now i want/am going all out to build a botom end capable of holding down twice as much hp as the stock bottom end.
heres how i ran last year...
http://vids.myspace.com/index....45624


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*

I just wanted to add a little to this thread. I was under the imprssion that you couldn't use the Fiat 90 degree distributor on the aba distributor becuase it didn't fit, hit the head. I decided to buy the cap and try it out. It worked beautifully. I will post pic later today to show how it sits. all that is needed is a little grinding to the head.


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## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soch naungayan* »_im probably gonna make a seperate aba 16v build thread with pics...
but to answer your question......
the aba piston's were fine. not a single problem....rods were ok. the only consistant failure was the rings. they could not hold over 20psi at the track under load...twice(besides the pressure plate).
so....now i want/am going all out to build a botom end capable of holding down twice as much hp as the stock bottom end.
heres how i ran last year...
http://vids.myspace.com/index....45624

Excellent vid dude! Give some more info about your car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*

quickie stuff.
car is a 95 mk3 everything except ac in it.
16v aba on sds sem...street car







.
im actually gonna make a web page on a 8v aba to 16v conversion. lets face it....pics work best on this conversion.
i already took pics of the differences why you need the 9a parts vs the 8v aba parts. ill gladly accept any donations of the bbm stuff to add as well(hint hint...i already have the bbm int shaft gear). however everything(parts wise) that youll see will not be stock. i just want to make a simple page on wahts needed to mate a aba 8v bottom end to a 16valve head...whether you use oem pistons/rods or aftermarket set. ill have some stuff up by this weekend.


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## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*

One thing I haven't seen is what the recommended break-in period is for this swap when changing out the pistons. What's your guy's thoughts?


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Kabinotar)*

same as any other motor....


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *12 SEC ABA* »_I just wanted to add a little to this thread. I was under the imprssion that you couldn't use the Fiat 90 degree distributor on the aba distributor becuase it didn't fit, hit the head. I decided to buy the cap and try it out. It worked beautifully. I will post pic later today to show how it sits. all that is needed is a little grinding to the head.

12 SEC ABA
I bought one of these and tried it, to my recollection it would not fit with a factory intake manifold and it hit the head.
Yes, please post pics and confirm.
Thanks


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
12 SEC ABA
I bought one of these and tried it, to my recollection it would not fit with a factory intake manifold and it hit the head.
Yes, please post pics and confirm.
Thanks









I forgot to mention this is with a Short runner. Trying to get the pics up.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_same as any other motor....

Excuse my ignorance, but I've never had to break in a motor. Can I get some actual info. Numbers, like: How many miles? RPM range to use at first? Oil changes when? Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oh, and John, my order went in last Friday. Can't wait for all of it to get here so I can put this thing together










_Modified by Kabinotar at 1:52 PM 4-25-2007_


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I just wanted to add a little to this thread. I was under the imprssion that you couldn't use the Fiat 90 degree distributor on the aba distributor becuase it didn't fit, hit the head. I decided to buy the cap and try it out. It worked beautifully. I will post pic later today to show how it sits. all that is needed is a little grinding to the head. 
12 SEC ABA
I bought one of these and tried it, to my recollection it would not fit with a factory intake manifold and it hit the head.
Yes, please post pics and confirm.
Thanks 



Heres the pics
The first is installed with a Short runner intake.
The second is with stock manifold
The third is now where my #1 cylinder it at. I rotated the distributor about 90 degrees to the left
























The pics look like iss because all I could use was a camera phone



_Modified by 12 SEC ABA at 7:38 PM 4-25-2007_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*

Cool, did you have to modify the distributor at all or just the head?
Oh and do you have to remove the head to change out the cap and rotor?
Thanks for the pics and information










_Modified by JBETZ at 9:01 PM 4-25-2007_


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Cool, did you have to modify the distributor at all or just the head?
Oh and do you have to remove the head to change out the cap and rotor?
Thanks for the pics and information









_Modified by JBETZ at 9:01 PM 4-25-2007_

Didn't modify the distributor. It works the same way, It's just adjustable now that I spinned it. I dont have to take the head off, I need the motor a little BTDC. I grinded a little in that right side pice sticking out, and I grinded where the mani bolt goes. so I tilt the cap to the right a little then pull out.


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *12 SEC ABA* »_
Didn't modify the distributor. It works the same way, It's just adjustable now that I spinned it. I dont have to take the head off, I need the motor a little BTDC. I grinded a little in that right side pice sticking out, and I grinded where the mani bolt goes. so I tilt the cap to the right a little then pull out. 

12 SEC: Sorry for some noob questions, but I am curious:
1) How do you then block off where the 16v Distributor goes?
2) This means you no longer need the 16v Intermediate shaft/oil pump?
Thanks, this would have been cool for me (since I have a few ABA distributors) before I went out to find the 16v Intermediate shaft and a couple of 16v distributors


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papichulo7* »_
12 SEC: Sorry for some noob questions, but I am curious:
1) How do you then block off where the 16v Distributor goes?
2) This means you no longer need the 16v Intermediate shaft/oil pump?
Thanks, this would have been cool for me (since I have a few ABA distributors) before I went out to find the 16v Intermediate shaft and a couple of 16v distributors









I'm going to but the block off plate from JBETZ. 
I already had a complete aba, so all I needed was the 16 intermediate shaft gear from JBETZ. SO I run aba im shaft and pump.


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papichulo7* »_

Thanks, this would have been cool for me (since I have a few ABA distributors) before I went out to find the 16v Intermediate shaft and a couple of 16v distributors









If you dont have the aba Block with im shaft, and oil pump, just go with the 16v stuff. It's easier to get at the junk yard, and use the 16v distributer.


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *12 SEC ABA* »_
If you dont have the aba Block with im shaft, and oil pump, just go with the 16v stuff. It's easier to get at the junk yard, and use the 16v distributer.

Dude, I now have BOTH engines laying around -- complete ABA, complete 16v (and don't forget the G60 that is coming out)







. 
And I beg to differ -- you can get ABAs all day long at the JY; 16v's are like UFO's ... only an occasional sighting.


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*

at the pic n pull's by me I've only seen 3 ABA in like 3 years. I see a 16v almost everytime I go.


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*








:jealous:
Each weekend, I am guaranteed seeing 4-6 ABAs (2 OBD1) at the local "pull-it-yourself" LOL -- often w/ manual tranny's picked clean -- maybe 2 VR6's and the occasional rare 1 or 2 16v's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by papichulo7 at 2:32 PM 4-30-2007_


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*

ahh but do ya see a 2.016v...
i see old...oolldd..1.8 16v all the time(including rust) and 8v aba's all the time but the 2.0 16v is basically the unicorn of blocks these days....at least in socal. i havent seen one at the pick your part or ecology in at least 3years.


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*

It's funny you say that. When I was getting my 16v head they had 3 passats fully intact. I started on one with the lowest miles, got everthing off and it was screwed. End up with the third one. Thew second was also messed up. I was lucky that day.
In sacramento they have a specialied German junkyard, but they think there stuff is worth 10 times what it should be.

I see way more passats with 16v then I do 1.8 16v's and defintely rarelly see any MK3 cars with aba's


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soch naungayan* »_ahh but do ya see a 2.016v...
i see old...oolldd..1.8 16v all the time(including rust) and 8v aba's all the time but the 2.0 16v is basically the unicorn of blocks these days....at least in socal. i havent seen one at the pick your part or ecology in at least 3years.

LOL -- Yes! The 2 that I saw at the JY last (and where I got the entire engine) was 2L 16v Passats.
1.8L 16v (especially Scirocco) is strictly legend/folklore here.
BTW: I thought the 1.8L 16v head flowed better/was the better head of the two??


----------



## G60 CAB (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*

How well does the stock ABA OBDI bottom end handle 8,000+ rpms? 
Basically: What kind of upgraded parts would be good for a 1.8L 16v head on a OBDI ABA bottom end with 20+ psi Lysholm and 8,000+ rpms? I am looking into some Ross pistons, new rings, bearings, seals, etc. Do I need anything specific for the higher then normal rpms?


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papichulo7* »_
BTW: I thought the 1.8L 16v head flowed better/was the better head of the two??

it does flow better than a 2lt head..around 10-15cfms...
...a stock head basically flows 120/180 cfms...give or take.


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (G60 CAB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60 CAB* »_How well does the stock ABA OBDI bottom end handle 8,000+ rpms? 
Basically: What kind of upgraded parts would be good for a 1.8L 16v head on a OBDI ABA bottom end with 20+ psi Lysholm and 8,000+ rpms? I am looking into some Ross pistons, new rings, bearings, seals, etc. Do I need anything specific for the higher then normal rpms?

itll handle it but for how long???. we havent had any issues with the bottom end however...your lysholm blower +8000 rpms= broken key in your crank sprocket. the eaton blown truck broke those constantly.


----------



## G60 CAB (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*

Hmmmmm well what if I pin the crank?


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Cool, did you have to modify the distributor at all or just the head?
Oh and do you have to remove the head to change out the cap and rotor?
Thanks for the pics and information









_Modified by JBETZ at 9:01 PM 4-25-2007_

so would you guys sell a 16v kit without the dizzy?


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (soch naungayan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soch naungayan* »_
it does flow better than a 2lt head..around 10-15cfms...
...a stock head basically flows 120/180 cfms...give or take.

Well, I snagged a 1.8L 16v as well so now I have a complete ABA, complete 2L 16v, 1.8L 16v head/intake, and complete G60 (w/o supercharger).

*For the 16v head + ABA block combo should I also use the 1.8L 16v intake or 2L 16v intake??*


_Modified by papichulo7 at 6:46 PM 5-5-2007_


----------



## FirmBreastedVDub (Mar 13, 2006)

hit the crack pipe son


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_
so would you guys sell a 16v kit without the dizzy?

YOu dont have to buy the whole kit, but it makes it ways easier if you do, just buy waht you need. I didn't have the 16v distributor, so for me to buy the grizzy and a 16v dist didn't make sense.


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*

yea i know but it comes with all the hoses you need and everything and i would rather use the stick dizzy then have to buy a 16v one and tear them both apart


----------



## wishknewaboutcars (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (jordan92o)*

im sorry, i really dont understand what all that list means. Anyone mind just naming the parts i need to replace to rebuilt my 2.0 8v into a 16v? (in english







)


----------



## ttocsybles (Sep 7, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (wishknewaboutcars)*

can anyone tell me if and/or what the difference is between the ABA and AEG head? the block looks compleatly different just with the naked eye.. but the head looks basicly the same. i was origanly planning on an ABA 16V swap but would rather put the money into a newer/better looking car, hopfuly making an AEG 16V. any help would be great.


----------



## wishknewaboutcars (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ttocsybles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_I would like to get a Master ABA 16v Parts list/ ABA 16v FAQ thread going in order to help all of those who have many questions and are not sure about what specific parts are needed to make this work. Please post up if you have any info, just be sure that the info you are contributing is accurate and correct. I will Update the list every other day if not every day. If anything is wrong or if something needs to be added then post up and ill add it to the master list below. I want to try and keep the list as easy to understand as possible so it will answer many questions by reading it. Please help out with this thread as i am not doing it just to help out other Vortexers, but i myself need to know more info so i can gather all the needed parts so i can get the motor in my jetta and get megasquirt on and get the car running!
~Engine & Internals~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Block: OBD1 ABA
Crank: OBD1 ABA
Crank Bearings: ABA
Connecting Rods: OBD1 ABA
Pistons: 2.0L 16v
Rod Bearings: ????
Head: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v
Oil Pan: ABA
Headgasket: ABA or 2.0L 16v
~Intake & Exhaust~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Throttle Body: G60 or Automatic 16v
Intake Manifold: 1.8L 16v or 2.0L 16v
~Belts & Pulleys~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Timing Belt: Eurosport ABA 16v Or OEM 150 Tooth 1.8T
Idler/Tensioner Pulley: 9A 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump: 2.0L 16v
Oil Pump Drive: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump: 2.0L 16v
Water Pump Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Crank Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Pulley: 2.0L 16v
Alternator Belt: 2.0L 16v
Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v
~Fuel & Spark~
---------------------------------------------------------------
Fuel Pump: Rabbit CIS
Fuel Filter: CIS
FPR: G60
Spark Plugs: 16v
Distributer: 16v
Spark Plug Wires: 16v
Distributer Block Off: TT Block Off Plate
~Options~
---------------------------------------------------------------
here is the changes you need to make for the following
1) High Boost Forced Induction-----------ABA pistons/ABA Rods
2) Mild Boost Forced Induction-----------9A pistons/ABA Rods
3) NA + Extreme Nitrous------------------See # 1
4) NA + Mild Nitrous-----------------------See # 2
5) High Compression---------------------ABF Pistons/ABA Rods
6) Stroker----------------------------------9A Pistons/TDI Crank
If your wanting to run MK3 Accessories here is what you need.
MK3 Tesioner Bracket
MK3 Alternator
ABA Crank Pulley-needs to be machined down
Non Power Steering Kit
Power Steering Kit

Thanks in advance :crosses fingers and hopes this thread takes off:
Modified by German_Muscle at 9:39 PM 8-30-2004
Modified by German_Muscle at 1:25 AM 11-3-2004

please let me know if im reading this right. So the parts that say ABA next to them mean they shall work fine with the stock parts (i.e. Block: OBD1 ABA
Crank: OBD1 ABA
Crank Bearings: ABA
Connecting Rods: OBD1 ABA)
now **** like the pistons... Pistons: 2.0L *16v* Now the stock pistons are 2.0L *8v* so i need to replace the pistons. 
Am i anywhere near reading it correctly?
Thanks for any help.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (wishknewaboutcars)*

What are you planning on running for management: stock w/ chip, standalone? That decision will help narrow the options.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

Ok, we updated the picture....looks better now.
Thanks again guys.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html








Here is the NA kit
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html








And the SC kit
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html








And the torque
Oh, and thats the 8V chart




















_Modified by JBETZ at 4:51 PM 5-22-2007_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I understand that that saves you about 200 dollars but it's still way too high :/. I'm just cheap. Plus it's fun running around junkyards









Why is there what looks to be a waterpump pulley and a new coolant flange. I thought you only needed that type of coolant flange if you had a lysholm.


----------



## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_I understand that that saves you about 200 dollars but it's still way too high :/. I'm just cheap. Plus it's fun running around junkyards









Why is there what looks to be a waterpump pulley and a new coolant flange. I thought you only needed that type of coolant flange if you had a lysholm.

i'm cheap too but trust me...id rather pay the extra cash to make things easier. especially now that im over 30 dont have the extra time and have back problems. im getting to the point where i pay my friends to go to the wrecking yard to pull parts. 
suxx being a oldie here.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_I understand that that saves you about 200 dollars but it's still way too high :/. I'm just cheap. Plus it's fun running around junkyards









Why is there what looks to be a waterpump pulley and a new coolant flange. I thought you only needed that type of coolant flange if you had a lysholm.

There is no water pump pulley in the picture:
Crank pulley, intermediate shaft pulley, crank timing belt gear, timing belt tensioner. The coolant flange is for the side of the head.
The main reason this kit evolved the way it did was specifically for the reason of saving *money$$$* and time. See the problem that we had was finding good 16V engine cores to build up for customers. 2.0L 16V boost engines are the number one request. Like everyone in the US we can get 2.0L ABA engines for a dime a dozen and not pay any shipping. Most wrecking yards will not just split out the intermediate shaft and other parts to run in the ABA engines, they want to sell you the complete 16V engine or short block. Have you checked out what it costs to ship an engine from a wrecker these days? So we have our local wreckers deliver good low mileage 2.0L ABA engines and then we ship heads in from anywhere in the lower 48 States for 20-30 bucks. We save a bundle on shipping, hassles and time! We have sold a good bunch of these and the popularity is growing.
Thanks again











_Modified by JBETZ at 8:55 PM 5-22-2007_


----------



## 2pt_slo_Mk3 (Jan 10, 2007)

any thought about how this kit might help?
http://bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi....html


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I plan on using the BBM Dizzy Gizzy. Will I need the IM sprocket and from what I've read I stay with the 8v IM shaft correct? Can I use the 8v crank sprocket too? And I'm assuming the underdrive pulley still needs to be machined? What about my 8v coolant flange?
I'm sorry for a stupid, probablly redundant question but I'm a little confused and I didn't see anyquestion like this.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by atrujillo1991 at 2:03 PM 5-23-2007_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_I plan on using the BBM Dizzy Gizzy. Will I need the IM sprocket and from what I've read I stay with the 8v IM shaft correct? Can I use the 8v crank sprocket too? And I'm assuming the underdrive pulley still needs to be machined? What about my 8v coolant flange?
I'm sorry for a stupid, probablly redundant question but I'm a little confused and I didn't see anyquestion like this.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Modified by atrujillo1991 at 2:03 PM 5-23-2007_

Ok, no problem
Below are the parts you need to run if you are not pilfering the intermediate shaft, oil pump, distributor block off ect. ect... from the 16V engine.
BBM Dizzy Gizzy
BBM Modified 16V intermediate shaft pulley for the timing belt
16V Crank timing belt gear
BBM Modified crank pulley to compensate for the wider timing belt
ABF timing belt
So this short list allows you to run the 16V head without rounding up an entire 16V engine, you only need the head, intake manifold and the exhaust. 
You also save time by not having to drop the pan and install the 16V oil pump and intermediate shaft.
Hope this helps
Thanks again


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_










Sweet car...that owner should clean his hood.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Was there ever a list of all the stretch bolts needed when doing this? I can't remember seeing one. I have my donor engine apart and about to go to a shop so I want to make sure everything goes smoothly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Kabinotar)*

As far as I remember the only stretch bolts are the crank bolt and the head bolts.


----------



## rorman (May 28, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

hey guys... i got that cis fuel injection on my '88 gti and i wanted to update it to the mk3 obd2 fuel injection, what do you think i need to do accomplish that??????


----------



## Loot (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (rorman)*

So is it possible to do this with a OBDII BLOCK


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (2.slowturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.slowturbo* »_So is it possible to do this with a OBDII BLOCK

possible? yes...but u loose the oil squirters and forged crank and rods


----------



## Loot (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JediKGB)*

thanks dude cuz i already got the head and various other parts


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (2.slowturbo)*

So we made some new turbo hardware to go along with this 16V head conversion.
Have a great weekend








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

I know that on the 8v the cam pulley is the same as the IM pulley. I'm assuming it's the same for the 16v correct? Could I make a 16v cam pulley work on the 8v im shaft If I was to notch the 8v IM shaft to accept the keyed 16v cam pulley?
It'll save me time and some money mconsidering I already have an extra 16v cam gear...


_Modified by atrujillo1991 at 9:08 AM 6-1-2007_


----------



## jazoner (May 25, 2005)

just wondering off hand the is it possible to use the 1.8 liter int shaft rather than the 2.0 because i found that the 9a oil drive gear doesnt seem to fit but the 1.8 liter drive gear falls right into= t he int shaft teeth.. is there a significant difference between the two int shafts i can see with my eyes that the 9a gear is alot bigger...
thanks in advance


----------



## Project 88 (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Ok,










So, if I read this correctly
The above set includes everything needed to create the ABA 16v without swapping over the IM shaft, pulley, blockoff plate, oil pump from the 16v. 
I bought an 89 GTI w a 1.8l 16v that has bad rings. I also picked up a factory rebuilt ABA OBD1 bottom end.
Is it easier/cheaper to swap the above mentioned components rather than buy the swap over kit since I have a complete engine?
And what parts of the kit will I need buy swapping in the 16v components.
I havn't really started the project yet just gathering parts, but so far I have a good start.
1.8l 16v
2.0 ABA bottom end
600 cu/in intercooler
Generic piping kit (misc bends, elbows)
Megasquirt
GT2871R Turbo
Turbo Manifold
Tial BOV


----------



## alboogie (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: (Project 88)*

what ecu/engine management did you use??i want to put this setup(turbo)in my mk3


_Modified by alboogie at 3:41 PM 6-8-2007_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Project 88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Project 88* »_
So, if I read this correctly
The above set includes everything needed to create the ABA 16v without swapping over the IM shaft, pulley, blockoff plate, oil pump from the 16v. 
I bought an 89 GTI w a 1.8l 16v that has bad rings. I also picked up a factory rebuilt ABA OBD1 bottom end.
Is it easier/cheaper to swap the above mentioned components rather than buy the swap over kit since I have a complete engine?
And what parts of the kit will I need buy swapping in the 16v components.
I havn't really started the project yet just gathering parts, but so far I have a good start.
1.8l 16v
2.0 ABA bottom end
600 cu/in intercooler
Generic piping kit (misc bends, elbows)
Megasquirt
GT2871R Turbo
Turbo Manifold
Tial BOV

If you have the 16V engine it will be much less money to just use the parts you already have.
We did this kit to save on shipping entire 16V engines for the conversion parts. Freight is getting really expensive these days.
Now we only need to ship the heads in for about $30 bucks.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (alboogie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alboogie* »_what ecu/engine management did you use??i want to put this setup(turbo)in my mk3

_Modified by alboogie at 2:31 PM 6-8-2007_

The Mk3 factory OEM engine management does really well with boost and a correct chip.
Check out C2 for the chip or you can get it from us.
Have a great weekend.


----------



## alboogie (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

thanks...


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
The Mk3 factory OEM engine management does really well with boost and a correct chip.
Check out C2 for the chip or you can get it from us.
Have a great weekend.









I second this. I simply cannot believe how well the factory management works.


----------



## Project 88 (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
If you have the 16V engine it will be much less money to just use the parts you already have.

So if I swap everything over are there any parts that I will need?
I believe I'll still need the changed crank pulley, FPR, and Rail? Correct?


_Modified by Project 88 at 11:25 AM 6-9-2007_


----------



## alboogie (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

im happy to hear that.now i dont have to swap the harness. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cartercdad (May 13, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

watching this one got the start on some of the parts like the head and intake


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_I know that on the 8v the cam pulley is the same as the IM pulley. I'm assuming it's the same for the 16v correct? Could I make a 16v cam pulley work on the 8v im shaft If I was to notch the 8v IM shaft to accept the keyed 16v cam pulley?
It'll save me time and some money mconsidering I already have an extra 16v cam gear...

_Modified by atrujillo1991 at 9:08 AM 6-1-2007_

any thoughts?
WOO HOO
PAGE!


----------



## mk1gtivr6_dream!!! (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

YO!!! NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!! stack 2 gaskets on top of eachother!!!!!!!


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

OK, well after making it through all 33 pages of this thread, I have a pretty good idea what I need.
I've read the thread, so instead of telling me to go back and read it, can anyone give this list a once over and make sure I'm not missing anything (excluding all the ABA stuff)?
16v Head, Dizzy, cap, rotor, plugs & wires
16v Intake mani and Exhaust mani
16v Head studs and new Crank bolt
BBM ABA16v kit
BBM NA aba16v kit
swap trigger wheels in the 16v distributor
ABA dizzy block off
drill and tap intake mani for an IAT

Does the dizzy electrical connector from an OBD1 motronic plug right in to the 16v dizzy or do I have to wire it seperately?
I'm planning on going with a set of ABF pistons like the ones that BBM sells, but I saw a 12:1 set that Bildon sells. How undrivable are they for something like a daily? 
Sorry if these questions are pretty basic, I'm just trying to make this go as smoothly for myself when I am able to start it
thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (tauntedmonster)*

I know that I got you in that other thread last night, but I'll add one thing here. 
You need to swap the trigger wheel and the sensor from the aba distributor to the 16v one since the wheels are slightly different sizes. 
Since you are swapping the connector as well you should have no problems with it working...although I believe the connectors are the same on both.


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

Alright, first off, thanks for keeping this thread going
ok, so what has everyone done about the ECT? does someone make an elbow that allows me to use the mk3 ect and AC cutout switch? or how can I wire the 16v coolant temp sensors into the ABA harness?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (tauntedmonster)*

I used the factory 4 wire sensor on a new flange and the 2 wire one went to a sensor I got off the 16v head. BBM has a digi coolant flange with a spacer to make it fit. 







(my wires were extended when I planned on moving the sensor to another location. You won't need to exted them. )


_Modified by BMGFifty at 11:40 PM 6-17-2007_


----------



## Loot (Apr 15, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Well i just finished my conversion(no turbo yet) and i was wondering if i could use upgraded software for the 8v 2.0 with my current setup.


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_the 2 wire one went to a sensor I got off the 16v head

the coolant temp sesor for the ecu?
(thanks to whoever's pic this is


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (tauntedmonster)*

Yeah, thats the switch...but I should mention that my a/c is currently inop and I'm considering that sensor the problem. I used a nasty looking old one, so most likely the problem is that the sensor is bad and not that it is incorrect. 
That pic helped me as well.


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Yeah, thats the switch...but I should mention that my a/c is currently inop and I'm considering that sensor the problem. I used a nasty looking old one, so most likely the problem is that the sensor is bad and not that it is incorrect. 
That pic helped me as well. 

Cool man, thanks. I'm picking up a 9A bottom end tomorrow morning http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (tauntedmonster)*

Hey guys, do you need to block off any oil / coolant galleries in the 16v head before bolting it to the ABA?
Cheers!


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_Hey guys, do you need to block off any oil / coolant galleries in the 16v head before bolting it to the ABA?
Cheers!

Also, what are we using for the water pump to cyl head coolant flange (via oe oil cooler). What with the extra height of the ABA block the the 16v one is (12mm?) short and the ABA type snakes off in the wrong direction....
Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*

This thread has been very helpfull http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (infront)*

On the rear of the 16v head is the oil pressure sender. You can either leave the old one in or move the blue pressure switch from the side of the 8v head to the back of the 16v one. If you do leave the old one in, you can use one of the ports on the oil filter mount to connect the switch. 
I believe there is also another sensor that I left connected to the 16v head to block a coolant port. The one to the front of the side flange can be left open, there is a possibility that the rear one can be left open as well, but since I never removed it I'm not sure.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_On the rear of the 16v head is the oil pressure sender. You can either leave the old one in or move the blue pressure switch from the side of the 8v head to the back of the 16v one. If you do leave the old one in, you can use one of the ports on the oil filter mount to connect the switch. 
I believe there is also another sensor that I left connected to the 16v head to block a coolant port. The one to the front of the side flange can be left open, there is a possibility that the rear one can be left open as well, but since I never removed it I'm not sure. 

Andy- do you have the part # handy for this screw in sender?
You know the one for the h2o temp gauge.
It is different than the standard 16V sender, right?
Thanks


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I don't have the number handy since I lost a ton of files reciently when my computer decided to erase my profile. Forunately I still have all the important stuff backed up. 
From what I understand the 2 wire connector that was on the coolant flange is the same functionally as the 2 wire sensor on the 16v head. 
So in theory the 16v sensor would work. From what I understand, that sensor is only for the a/c. 
I'll hook up my vag com and see what happens when I disconnect it.


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

Has anyone attempted an FSI 16V head yet on a ABA block? will it even fit?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mocas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mocas* »_Has anyone attempted an FSI 16V head yet on a ABA block? will it even fit? 

I highly doubt that this would work.
Completely different engines, completely...


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

Ok thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I was just curious


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mocas)*

hey guys i was curious if i wanted to build a NA motor first and put the abf pistons in would it bad bad to later turbo it if i was going to get a head spacer and then have 9.5:1 compression just wanted to know if that was an okay number for turbo


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_hey guys i was curious if i wanted to build a NA motor first and put the abf pistons in would it bad bad to later turbo it if i was going to get a head spacer and then have 9.5:1 compression just wanted to know if that was an okay number for turbo

I would start out by putting my money into the forged low compression units right out of the gate.
ABF pistons are cast and lowering compression with a spacer gasket is ok, doing it with proper dish built into the piston is better.


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

OK, here's a question. Why does the 16v water pump have to be used? Can an 8v pump be used with a 16v pulley?
I found a fairly local 16v engine, almost complete, for $150 that I'm probably going to jump on.


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (pwnt by pat)*

how are you guys setting the ignition (distributor) timing as the aba is supposed to have non adjustable timing? (obd1 management)


----------



## deer_eggs (Oct 4, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*

Wow, what a thread! I've got an ABA bottom end with forged 9.5:1 compression pistons (well, when used with a JH head...more info in the link in my signature) What kind of compression would this give me with a 16v head? I'm assuming right around 8.0:1 or slightly higher? Anyone know the CC's of the combustion chambers of the 16v head? I've never seen one up close, let alone taken it apart and rebuilt it... Thanks!


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Andy- do you have the part # handy for this screw in sender?
You know the one for the h2o temp gauge.
It is different than the standard 16V sender, right?
Thanks


I still need this part #
Anyone... please


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

John,
I think the part may be bosch # 0280130040, but I can't cross reference it so I don't know.


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

hey i was curious if you guys at bahn brenner could make a 2.0 8v short runner intake manifold i see you make the 16v ones so i was curious


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_hey i was curious if you guys at bahn brenner could make a 2.0 8v short runner intake manifold i see you make the 16v ones so i was curious

We could, however not ever planning on it.
I'm certain the volume would be far to low to support the way that we build them.
CNC runs require at least 30+ parts per run.
That would leave a ton of parts = $$$ just sitting on the shelf for most of the year.


----------



## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

just curious if there would be any difference if I used an OBDI or OBDII ABA motor to put a 16v head on and put it in a MKII or MK3? do you still use the same parts for this type of swap whether its an obd1 or obd2?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (bldgengineer)*

I don't think it really matters, unless you plan on running race fuel and at over 300hp.
The OBD I has the oil spritzers, that is nice...
The OBD II ecu has more tuning available and you can read the codes.


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

well i know the ones that usrt used to make were adding 20hp on all motor cars seems like a good deal to me to make them


----------



## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (jordan92o)*

well I just thinking about using an obd2 block with a 16v head with standalone in a mk2 or mk3 car. I haven't decided which car yet but I already have a perfectly good 1996 motor and tranny.


----------



## VeeDuB!! (Sep 9, 2005)

*Re: (bldgengineer)*

I'm going to be doing this conversion on my obd2 ABA. I plan on eventually buying the Lysholm charger. I assume it would be ok to run the stock aba pistons, which give me around 8:1 cp until I come up with the funds to buy the charger. I know that the stock pistons would be perfect for the charger app. because lower cp handles boost better, but will I be ok running this low cp until I can afford the charger?


----------



## rabbitdecarlos (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (VeeDuB!!)*

i just install my 9a intermediate shaft last night, and it lined properly with the aba oil pump gear, when i spin the shaft i can see that the movement is been transfer to the oil pump, why do you need to change the oil pump gear for?? I"ll be installing this engine into my scirocco II, is the aba block taller than 16v block?? any help will be really apreciated. thanx.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (rabbitdecarlos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitdecarlos* »_i just install my 9a intermediate shaft last night, and it lined properly with the aba oil pump gear, when i spin the shaft i can see that the movement is been transfer to the oil pump, why do you need to change the oil pump gear for?? I"ll be installing this engine into my scirocco II, is the aba block taller than 16v block?? any help will be really apreciated. thanx.

Pretty sure you need a 16V oil pump in there.


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

9a int. shafts and aba shafts have the same part #, so just get a dizzy gizzy (sp?) from bbm and your set


_Modified by lowdowndirtydubs at 12:45 PM 7-27-2007_


----------



## mk3aba20vt (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: (lowdowndirtydubs)*

there not the same part number... and if you put both side by side the 16v has a larger size gear where it meets the oil pump shaft. i believe the 16v directly drives the oil pump while the 8v shaft drives the distributor and the dist. drives the oil pump. this is why you can use the dizzy gizzy with the aba oil pump but it mean you need the modified intermediate shaft pulley(BBM i believe has this custom as well?) Please correct me if i am wrong


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (mk3aba20vt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3aba20vt* »_ i believe the 16v directly drives the oil pump while the 8v shaft drives the distributor and the dist. drives the oil pump. 

almost....the 16v IM shaft drives a gear that slips ontop of the 16v oil pump that will in turn drive the pump....
the 16v oil pump is splined at the top to hold the gear.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JediKGB)*

I would like to share my learnigs of today... It turns out that the white 2 pin temp sensor is actually a switch (not a sensor) for the A/C. In other words the sensor that I have been plugging into the head is actually supposed to be a switch that tells the a/c to turn off if the engine is too hot. 
If you jump the two pins the a/c will know to turn on....just watch the temp till I, or someone else, can find a permanent solution .


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I have a 95 ABA and a 1.8L 16v head.
Do I need to change the intermed shaft for this setup? Or can I just bolt the head to the engine?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (97jazzgti)*

You will need to either swap the im shaft or get the BBM dizzy gizzy.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I put the int shaft from the 1.8L 16v in the aba block correct?


----------



## mk3aba20vt (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: (97jazzgti)*

yes, along with the 1.8 oil pump, and the dist. blockoff plate and little gear under it to take the place of the aba dist. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif hope that makes sense


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

when degreeing the camshaft(s) for this swap where are you all placing the dial indicator, it cannot go on the lifter as its hydraulic, and if you place it on the top of the lobe it'd be 180 out, right? can I use the top of the lobe and compensate by adding or subtracting 180 in my calculations for lobe center?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*

Most people set the cam gear at zero and forget about it. The car will run fine this way. Or you can set the bottom at tdc and the cams at tdc and let the camgear adjust to keep those two the same.


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (BMGFifty)*

if I find true TDC on bottom like /\ said, and set cams to the spot where their gears line up and then adjust cam gear until they stay together, will the CEL go away


----------



## rocco858488 (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*

love this post


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (lowdowndirtydubs)*

What cel are you getting?


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_What cel are you getting?

camshaft position sensor out of sync
also my block has been cut .055 so I don't know if I can time it your way, 
I am going to degree it with the top of the lobe and it should be 180 out, then I can find my lobe center, anyone have any ideas on this method?


_Modified by lowdowndirtydubs at 8:02 PM 8-11-2007_


----------



## Airogents (Jul 24, 2006)

I just ordered the bahn brenner kit, I am happy to join you guys in this conversion
Jbetz, when is the turbo kit available?

_Modified by Airogents at 7:16 PM 8-11-2007_


_Modified by Airogents at 7:17 PM 8-11-2007_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Airogents)*

John has been posting a 16v turbo kit for the last month or so, it looks quite nice.


----------



## Airogents (Jul 24, 2006)

yea i have been following its development, I want to buy it.
If i buy the manifold, turbo, i/c, waste gate and so on, from your 16v turbo page, what else do i need to match your setup John?


_Modified by Airogents at 5:58 AM 8-12-2007_


----------



## theVWrobot (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: (Airogents)*

i have arabbit with an ABA/.16v in the new york area if anyone wants to take alook http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3381014


----------



## Airogents (Jul 24, 2006)

well i have been talking to BBM, started piecing together the turbo setup, have the important stuff ordered. Great customer service guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Airogents)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Airogents* »_well i have been talking to BBM, started piecing together the turbo setup, have the important stuff ordered. Great customer service guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks, I'll let Jason know


----------



## Airogents (Jul 24, 2006)

Deffinetly, now send me some good suprises with my turbo stuff!
hey what did you guys pay for a decent 16v head?
edit: got a nice one, cheap.
_Modified by Airogents at 5:34 PM 8-16-2007_


_Modified by Airogents at 8:23 PM 8-16-2007_


----------



## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (Airogents)*

I'd like to replace the motor in my 90 jetta with the 96 aba I have and run it for a little while before putting on the 16v head. Would this create a pain in the ass later on or would it be just as difficult?
I have the 96 wiring harness, ecu...basically everything out of the 96 golf I have, except the car.


----------



## Airogents (Jul 24, 2006)

man ODB II sucks though....


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Airogents)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Airogents* »_man ODB II sucks though....

Why is that? The fact that my car runs as good as it does means, at least to me, that OBD II does not suck.


----------



## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Well I got the motor, tranny, axles, ecu, complete wiring harness, dash, instrument cluster, shift linkage/neuspeed shortshifter, master cylinder, and countless other items out of a 96 golf that a buddy of mine took out his car. This came about since he took everything he could out of a wrecked 2001 GTI and put everything he could into his car.
While the motor was out I had the flywheel resurfaced, installed a new clutch, and new rear seal.
I'd love to be able to put a 16v head on this thing with 9A pistons turbo it one day but for today I would like to just replace the 1.8 RV thats burning oil because the head needs to be rebuilt.
Would I be better off just getting a rebuilt 8v head right now and start collecting parts for the ABA16vt or can I replace the entire motor right now without having to worry too much about my future plans? 
OR
3rd option: can I get a 16v head right now to replace the 8v and use that until my aba bottom end is ready?
Thanks alot for any advice guys


_Modified by bldgengineer at 12:10 PM 8-19-2007_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Airogents)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Airogents* »_man ODB II sucks though....

OBD II is awesome!
You can read codes, monitor the engine, dis-able emissions equipment ect...
The best part is that you can run boost with the proper chip, maintain your gas mileage at cruise and run like OEM.


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

But John I thought there were clear advantages to using the OBD I motors?
IIRC:
1) Forged Internals (Crank, Piston, Rod)
2) Oil squirters
3) Dual Valve Springs
Please let me know because months ago when I was more active in this forum I went thru the trouble of specifically looking for OBDI ABA for my own ABA16V build attempt. (Not to mention then having to find the 16V head and figuring whether it was better to use 1.8L or 2.0L -- I got both just in case). See here















Thanks

_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
OBD II is awesome!
You can read codes, monitor the engine, dis-able emissions equipment ect...
The best part is that you can run boost with the proper chip, maintain your gas mileage at cruise and run like OEM.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (papichulo7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papichulo7* »_But John I thought there were clear advantages to using the OBD I motors?
IIRC:
1) Forged Internals (Crank, Piston, Rod)
2) Oil squirters
3) Dual Valve Springs
Please let me know because months ago when I was more active in this forum I went thru the trouble of specifically looking for OBDI ABA for my own ABA16V build attempt. (Not to mention then having to find the 16V head and figuring whether it was better to use 1.8L or 2.0L -- I got both just in case). See here















Thanks


an OBD-I engine is preferred for very high horsepower due to the forged crank (pistons are cast in both and rods are the same construction), oil squirters, dual valve springs (if staying 8V but are easily changed.) but the OBD-II management if more advanced. I am planning to run my 2.0 20V on it.


----------



## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_ I am planning to run my 2.0 20V on it.

That oughta be interesting...I WANT PICS!!!


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (papichulo7)*

OBD I block with oil squirters and crank for 300+bhp, OBD II management http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I don't need 300+hp though. I want a dependable fun daily driver. 200-250 would be sweet.


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_OBD I block with oil squirters and crank for 300+bhp, OBD II management http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


What about Digifant (G60) Mgmt + 16V Head + Turbo?


----------



## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (bldgengineer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bldgengineer* »_Well I got the motor, tranny, axles, ecu, complete wiring harness, dash, instrument cluster, shift linkage/neuspeed shortshifter, master cylinder, and countless other items out of a 96 golf that a buddy of mine took out his car. This came about since he took everything he could out of a wrecked 2001 GTI and put everything he could into his car.
While the motor was out I had the flywheel resurfaced, installed a new clutch, and new rear seal.
I'd love to be able to put a 16v head on this thing with 9A pistons turbo it one day but for today I would like to just replace the 1.8 RV thats burning oil because the head needs to be rebuilt.
Would I be better off just getting a rebuilt 8v head right now and start collecting parts for the ABA16vt or can I replace the entire motor right now without having to worry too much about my future plans? 
OR
3rd option: can I get a 16v head right now to replace the 8v and use that until my aba bottom end is ready?
Thanks alot for any advice guys

_Modified by bldgengineer at 12:10 PM 8-19-2007_

so what do you guys think my best option would be?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (papichulo7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papichulo7* »_
What about Digifant (G60) Mgmt + 16V Head + Turbo?

If you have a choice go with the M5.9 OBD II system
It will run better and make more power, also less quirks when running a turbo.


----------



## DEV!N (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Whats the difference between doin the conversion with an OBD1 ABA and an OBD2 ABA?...I have a 96


----------



## bldgengineer (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
If you have a choice go with the M5.9 OBD II system
It will run better and make more power, also less quirks when running a turbo.

Do the connectors on the ce2 engine harness plug into this ECU? Are the plugs the same on the ce2 engine harness going to an obdII engine(minus the 2nd o2 sensor of course)?


----------



## DEV!N (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: (bldgengineer)*

Whats the difference between doin the conversion with an OBD1 ABA and an OBD2 ABA?...I have a 96


----------



## sjettav (Jun 22, 2004)

can someone explain the stroker part to me?
CR?
Storke?
thanks...


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (sjettav)*

There is certainly a lot of info in this post I just have a quick simple question my aba bottom end is essentially bare no accy's or anything and I plan on using the bbm modified pulley...there are many mk3's in the junk yard here what kind of accy's and pulleys do I need to pull off to run a serp belt setup for everything?


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Here's a question for yall.
can everything be salvaged from the 1.8l 16v engine if a 2.0l IM shaft is used?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

I believe the only 2.0 requirement is the IM shaft the rest of the parts are the same.

This is the only thread anyone would be interested in a 16v dizzy converted to single window to use with MK3 motronic. 100.00.


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*

I hope so. I found a local 16v engine for $100... but it's a 1.8l


----------



## kombi (Jan 24, 2003)

*Re: (bldgengineer)*

NM just saw my answer


_Modified by kombi at 8:46 AM 9-4-2007_


----------



## crazy16v (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: (kombi)*

nevermind i fixed it







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by crazy16v at 6:23 PM 9-4-2007_


----------



## kombi (Jan 24, 2003)

*Re: (crazy16v)*

ok so i have a complete 16v its a 1.8 as i heard this is the better one to go wiht...
also have a 93 aba block thats getting freshend up at least new Rod bearings. and rings + hone..
my question is..
i keep hearing i need the 2.0 16v IM shaft.. is this correct or can i use the 1.8 16v im shaft? 
whats truely the best way togo?
going to keep the ABA stock bottom end
going to run euro cams or Autotech sport cams on the 16v


----------



## sciroccoboy16v (Sep 4, 2006)

*Re: (kombi)*

I know that I am going to sound like a retard at this time
what cr would you have if you used a 1.9 TDI crank in an aba
with the aba pistons and rods


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (sciroccoboy16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoboy16v* »_I know that I am going to sound like a retard at this time
what cr would you have if you used a 1.9 TDI crank in an aba
with the aba pistons and rods
~9.2:1, crank raises comp by ~1 point.


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: (mk3aba20vt)*

a late 9a shaft shares the same part # as the aba


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (bldgengineer)*

ttt


----------



## HCClubPrez (Oct 27, 2005)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

Anyone know what a NA ABA-16v swap would yeild for power at 11:1 compression? ABF power or 9A power? Anyone know a ballpark?!?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## deepgrooves74 (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: (HCClubPrez)*



HCClubPrez said:


> Anyone know what a NA ABA-16v swap would yeild for power at 11:1 compression? ABF power or 9A power?
> What cams are you gonna run... stock I presume? Which head (which is also stock...) 1.8 16v or 2.0 16v??
> cj


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*ugh...*

Not using a dizzy. Can I keep my 8v IM shaft/pump?

Sorry


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: ugh... (atrujillo1991)*

By now, it almost seems that this thread needs have certain info taking out and cleaned up for different variations. 
Anyone else thing so?? or is it just me.
I mean we got ppl with
boosted aba/16
N/A aba/16
using aba internals, 9a internals, etc. different setups for different compression ratio's and all of the above with and with out dizzy's 
The thread keeps getting longer and longer because its hard to find specific information throughout 35 pages. Lots of questions are answered multiple times, and/or some info isn't totally correct for different variation setups
Am i the only one thinking this? I'll just shut up if i am


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: ugh... (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_By now, it almost seems that this thread needs have certain info taking out and cleaned up for different variations. 
Anyone else thing so?? or is it just me.
I mean we got ppl with
boosted aba/16
N/A aba/16
using aba internals, 9a internals, etc. different setups for different compression ratio's and all of the above with and with out dizzy's 
The thread keeps getting longer and longer because its hard to find specific information throughout 35 pages. Lots of questions are answered multiple times, and/or some info isn't totally correct for different variation setups
Am i the only one thinking this? I'll just shut up if i am









X2
I've read through it 6 times in all sorting through everything and between what you do and don't need for your application can get extremly confusing.


----------



## Balboa (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: ugh... (atrujillo1991)*

x3


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: ugh... (Balboa)*

This conversion is actually very straight forward.
People over complicate and confuse this one.
A person should first decide if they are going with forced induction or NA. If you go with FI the compression will be around 8.5:1 with the stock pistons. I would say that if you are running proper tuning 250 whp on these stock pistons as a limit is a good number. If you want or plan more power than this I would suggest forged pistons. 
If you are going NA you can either buy ABF drop in pistons from us have us spec out some forged units. We also have this NA conversion kit makes it really easy and a bolt on affair. http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html If you have more time to deal with hassles than money then you could also shave the block down and head down to bring up your compression up. This will require measuring the CC's on the head doing a little math and clay checking for valve clearance. Only experienced engine builders should try tackling this method.
The next choice is to either use our head conversion kit or if you want to take the time rounding up the necessary parts taken from a used 16V to facilitate the head conversion. Obviously if you have more time than money the used route will be for you. Some guys like to simply things and value there time and like the new parts route.
If you go with the BBM head conversion kit the parts group and information is here.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html
If you go with the used 2.0L 16V parts, you will need: Oil pump, intermediate shaft, intermediate shaft timing belt sprocket, distributor block off and clamp, distributor, modified or new BBM billet crank pulley, BBM 16V fuel rail, I'm sure there are some other little bits. I like it when people dive in and figure things out as they go. This the bulk of the costly items. Oh, you will need the injector cup seats, some gaskets....bla bla. Dive in and get dirty.








Hope this helps to clear things up a bit.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: ugh... (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_This conversion is actually very straight forward.
People over complicate and confuse this one.
A person should first decide if they are going with forced induction or NA. If you go with FI the compression will be around 8.5:1 with the stock pistons. I would say that if you are running proper tuning 250 whp on these stock pistons as a limit is a good number. If you want or plan more power than this I would suggest forged pistons. 
If you are going NA you can either buy ABF drop in pistons from us have us spec out some forged units. We also have this NA conversion kit makes it really easy and a bolt on affair. http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html If you have more time to deal with hassles than money then you could also shave the block down and head down to bring up your compression up. This will require measuring the CC's on the head doing a little math and clay checking for valve clearance. Only experienced engine builders should try tackling this method.
The next choice is to either use our head conversion kit or if you want to take the time rounding up the necessary parts taken from a used 16V to facilitate the head conversion. Obviously if you have more time than money the used route will be for you. Some guys like to simply things and value there time and like the new parts route.
If you go with the BBM head conversion kit the parts group and information is here.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html
If you go with the used 2.0L 16V parts, you will need: Oil pump, intermediate shaft, intermediate shaft timing belt sprocket, distributor block off and clamp, distributor, modified or new BBM billet crank pulley, BBM 16V fuel rail, I'm sure there are some other little bits. I like it when people dive in and figure things out as they go. This the bulk of the costly items. Oh, you will need the injector cup seats, some gaskets....bla bla. Dive in and get dirty.








Hope this helps to clear things up a bit.


Yes that does clear things up....but lets take it a step further for other comments I saw throughout the post to get them organized.
What 1.8 16v parts can be used?
What parts maybe subsituted if you didn't need to use a dizzy?


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: ugh... (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
Yes that does clear things up....but lets take it a step further for other comments I saw throughout the post to get them organized.
What 1.8 16v parts can be used?
*What parts maybe subsituted if you didn't need to use a dizzy?*

!!!


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

I've read this whole thread and am a little confused as to 1 thing, do I need to cut releifs in the stock aba pistons? I'm planning on doing an ABA16vT setup with >15psi.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

I run exactly that! stock OBD1 bottom end with stock 16v head, ABA gasket and 15psi. 
I checked the valve clearance to be (from memory) 2.1mm, if that's not right, either way it was more than enough. I checked it with info from 2 textbooks.
I've had no issues. The only thing I would recommend would be ultra sure that the cambelt goes on spot on! I did mine with the engine out and realised that it could be possible to get it a notch out if you can't see the pulleys square on i.e with the engine in. Make sure that when tensioned the dots / notches on the pullies still line up!








EDIT: my head is a 2.0L from a Canadian car, which may even have more valve lift (I dunno) that a US head. Are Canadian cars euro spec?


_Modified by infront at 10:37 AM 9-25-2007_


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Thanks infront. I've never had to do a timing belt change or anything so lining things up is intimidating. Are the marks on the timing gears on the cams pronounced enough? I'm assuming they need to be pointing to each other? Also what about the crank, I know thee is a mark on the pulley right? What do I line that up with? 
I know these are basic motor questions and sorry for detracting from the "sophistication" of the thread.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_I run exactly that! stock OBD1 bottom end with stock 16v head, ABA gasket and 15psi. 
I checked the valve clearance to be (from memory) 2.1mm, if that's not right, either way it was more than enough. I checked it with info from 2 textbooks.
I've had no issues. The only thing I would recommend would be ultra sure that the cambelt goes on spot on! I did mine with the engine out and realised that it could be possible to get it a notch out if you can't see the pulleys square on i.e with the engine in. Make sure that when tensioned the dots / notches on the pullies still line up!








EDIT: my head is a 2.0L from a Canadian car, which may even have more valve lift (I dunno) that a US head. Are Canadian cars euro spec?

_Modified by infront at 10:37 AM 9-25-2007_

Good experienced info.... Next step would be to decide how large of a cam could be ran with no reliefs


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sicklyscott* »_Thanks infront. I've never had to do a timing belt change or anything so lining things up is intimidating. Are the marks on the timing gears on the cams pronounced enough? I'm assuming they need to be pointing to each other? Also what about the crank, I know thee is a mark on the pulley right? What do I line that up with? 
I know these are basic motor questions and sorry for detracting from the "sophistication" of the thread.

Hey, better you ask than assume! 
The cam pulley (mine is a stock one) is easy to line up, the crank again can either be judged via the zero timing mark on the flywheel or by using a dial gauge measuring the piston position. The flywheel method is fine at this level. I used a thin piece of steel rod through the spark plug hole to confirm that the flywheel mark was indeed top dead center. I find it easy to confuse myself with timing marks on flywheels (but that's just me?), they generally have two, one to mark tdc and the other to mark 6 (or 8) degrees before tdc which is for getting the spark right.
I don't mean to make it sound like a pig of a job - it's not, it's just good to have someone beside you to agree that you're doing it right. 
It is possible to think you have it set right, then tighten the belt and walk away assuming it to be good, but the reality is that by tightening the belt a pulley could have moved a little throwing out the marks. Rarely do the marks land 100% on the spot when it's all tightened up (the belt stretches a bit), but trial and error by moving the belt a notch in the other direction will confirm which position is closest.
I used an ABF belt from BBM ($$) by the way.
Also. I guess I should say that you shouldn't assume that a head hasn't been decked a little - that'll affect the clearance too - GREATLY. Best thing is to measure with some modelling clay like I did (or confirm the height of the head). I used some Pam (or was it oil?) to stop the clay sticking to everything - one thing I would do in hindsight is use something on top of the piston (maybe some grease proof paper?) to stop clay going down towards the rings. Also just put the clay on the inlet valves side (as they are the ones that would hit first) and then if theres too much clay in the chamber you won't be trying to compress that when trying to turn over the motor, it'll just squish across to the other side! 
That's just my take on it - I'm no wizard!


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
Good experienced info.... Next step would be to decide how large of a cam could be ran with no reliefs

Im running NA with TT sport cams 268°/276° and have hit 8300 with no contact. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by pozer at 3:17 PM 9-25-2007_


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_
Im running NA with TT sport cams 268°/276° and have hit 8300 with no contact. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by pozer at 3:17 PM 9-25-2007_

Thank you very much, Great info... I love experienced insight


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: ugh... (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
Yes that does clear things up....but lets take it a step further for other comments I saw throughout the post to get them organized.
What 1.8 16v parts can be used?
What parts maybe subsituted if you didn't need to use a dizzy?

The dizzy gizzy is to take the place of the old ABA 8V distributor and run the oil pump. You will also need our modified intermediate timing belt gear and the ABF timing belt.
If you do not use this part you need parts from a donor 16V engine: The intermediate shaft, oil pump, timing belt gear, distributor block off and the ABF timing belt.


----------



## deepgrooves74 (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: ugh... (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_If you do not use this part you need parts from a donor 16V engine: The intermediate shaft, oil pump, timing belt gear, distributor block off and the ABF timing belt.

Yeah I believe this to be true from what I have read, but isn't it only the 2.0 16v intermediate shaft, and not the 1.8 that you need?? 
I do believe that you can use the 1.8 or 2.0 block off, and gears...
I do have a question though... I am going NA with ~10.5:1 using the 1.8 head. In terms of exhaust I am running a Scirocco 16v Manifold with a TT Racing downpipe, but what diameter exhaust is everyone running??
Also I am going to be running MegaSquirt in my Rabbit... what injector size should I run? Anyway... more later...
Thanks in advance folks!!
CJ


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: ugh... (deepgrooves74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *deepgrooves74* »_
Yeah I believe this to be true from what I have read, but isn't it only the 2.0 16v intermediate shaft, and not the 1.8 that you need?? 
I do believe that you can use the 1.8 or 2.0 block off, and gears...
I do have a question though... I am going NA with ~10.5:1 using the 1.8 head. In terms of exhaust I am running a Scirocco 16v Manifold with a TT Racing downpipe, but what diameter exhaust is everyone running??
Also I am going to be running MegaSquirt in my Rabbit... what injector size should I run? Anyway... more later...
Thanks in advance folks!!
CJ
yes, only 2.0 parts for IM shaft, and block off (1.8 is smaller.) About all you can use from a 1.8 is the head and pullies. I would use 2.25" exhaust.


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## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: ugh... (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
.........you need parts from a donor 16V engine: The intermediate shaft, oil pump, timing belt gear, distributor block off and the ABF timing belt.

I have these parts for sale except for the oil pump and the ABF belt. IM me.
I hope I don't get kicked for posting that, but there's hardly a 'hybrid parts for sale' thread


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## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Can anyone recommend a good flywheel/PP/clutch setup? I plan to run an O2O 16v tranny with 100mm axles in a rabbit. The motor will be the ABA block, stock internals, stock 16v head and a 60/63 T3/T4. I realize the tranny will need a Peloquin...that'll happen eventually.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

Don't know if anyone here is interested in this.
Got on the dyno to find the power curve I didn't expect allot of HP on 8:1 compression and 87 octane.
Also Cam timing is advanced 3deg from using the 150 tooth 1.8t timing belt so I could get allot more top end out of this with an adjustable cam gear.
TT Sport cams and Supertech valve springs in a 2.0 head.
The overlay on a chipped ABA helps show the difference. Even looking at other 16v dynos most peak at 6700 or so.












_Modified by pozer at 9:31 PM 10-7-2007_


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*

I could never determine for sure if there is valve clearance issues with aba rods/pistsons and 16V head... Can somebody verify? I gave up on the 20th something page with eyes bloodshot. Got a 9A and an ABA sitting in my garage ready to be frankensteined!
TIA http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

I can't answer that question so maybe someone else can BUT I think I may have thought of a solution (I'm sure I'm not the first with this idea) but couldn't you use a head spacer?
EIPs http://www.eiptuning.com/ecomm...16004
If there is a clearance problem wouldn't a spacer solve that problem and lower the compression enough to optimize boost?


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

a couple posts back someone mentioned that he had no issues with the aba pistons and 16v head clearance wise.
Anyone have any answer for my clutch / flywheel combo?


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

He's right, if you have an ABA stock block and 16 stock head you have more than enough clearance.
I am curious if this has been tackled with stock AEG???
I think it would be easier considering the Coilpack vs dizzy. BUT I think the pistons could be a problem.


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_I can't answer that question so maybe someone else can BUT I think I may have thought of a solution (I'm sure I'm not the first with this idea) but couldn't you use a head spacer?
EIPs http://www.eiptuning.com/ecomm...16004
If there is a clearance problem wouldn't a spacer solve that problem and lower the compression enough to optimize boost?

Yeah, but aba rods/pistons and 16V head already is VERY low compression... almost too low I think. I want to use a single OEM metal headgasket... no spacers on this project. 
If I have to I'll just stick the 16V head on there and reuse the old headgasket to see how the clearance sits in there... Possibly put a tiny dab of orange paint on the valves so I will know exactly where to grind them down.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_I run exactly that! stock OBD1 bottom end with stock 16v head, ABA gasket and 15psi. 
I checked the valve clearance to be (from memory) 2.1mm, if that's not right, either way it was more than enough. I checked it with info from 2 textbooks.









_Modified by infront at 10:37 AM 9-25-2007_

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks guys. What about the 1.8L head? I have a 1.8L head that I think I would rather use. Are the valve protrusions the same 1.8L vs 2.0L?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_He's right, if you have an ABA stock block and 16 stock head you have more than enough clearance.
I am curious if this has been tackled with stock AEG???
I think it would be easier considering the Coilpack vs dizzy. BUT I think the pistons could be a problem.
A couple of people on here have done/are doing AEG 16Vs. It is pretty easy as far as frankenstein engines go. As for pistons, you will have the same low compression as an ABA 16v but if you want high compression 9A rods and pistons are the correct ones since it is a 220mm block with a 92.8 mm crank just like a 9A.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_A couple of people on here have done/are doing AEG 16Vs. It is pretty easy as far as frankenstein engines go. As for pistons, you will have the same low compression as an ABA 16v but if you want high compression 9A rods and pistons are the correct ones since it is a 220mm block with a 92.8 mm crank just like a 9A.

I am looking for low compression to put around 20 psi. My short term goal is 250 whp on stock AEG block.
BTW is there a list of turbo manifold options available for both Internal wastegate and external?
I prefer internal wastegates because of simplicity but let's not get started on that debate.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

OK my mind has been made for both the intake side and exhaust...
exhaust: http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html
Intakes: http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html
That was an easy decision. 
Maybe BBM can chime in here and tell me if they think or know if the 'bomob' can fit into the MK4 with that 16 v conversion.
I know that USRT and HKK had problems fitting the original SRI in the AEG (vs ABA). The problem at hand would be the location of the alternator. The USRT AEG SRI had a slight upward angle to clear the alternator.
If your BBM SRI is straight my only option would be to remove the AC compressor and relocate the alternator in the AC location... but that reduces my desire for the BBM... so if you could help by helping me answer the AEG/BBM SRI clearance issue! thanks


_Modified by twicepardoned at 9:29 AM 10-8-2007_


----------



## ColourCrashed97 (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Cabby-Blitz)*

ive rebvuilt an aba 92,93 and 97 block(s) and there is nothing forged. only oil squrters are different. only passat 2.0 aba has forged crank and are very rare in the states


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ColourCrashed97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ColourCrashed97* »_ive rebvuilt an aba 92,93 and 97 block(s) and there is nothing forged. only oil squrters are different. only passat 2.0 aba has forged crank and are very rare in the states

I'm afraid that is incorrect. The 93 must have been an OBD II swap in or had the crank replaced at one point. Also, I am pretty sure the aba made it's debut in 1993 with the Mark 3 line... so I don't know where you got a 92' ABA unless it was some weird European spec engine, but that is doubtful, cause the ABF was the ABA eqiv in Europe. 1997 ABA, being OBDII would not have a forged crank. Every OBD I aba I have ever cracked open (including the two in my garage right now) have forged crankshafts. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by 16VJohn at 1:41 PM 10-8-2007_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16VJohn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16VJohn* »_
cause the ABF was the ABA eqiv in Europe. 
actually the 2E, etc. (AGG, ADY iirc) were the tall block 8V (but with counterflow head.)


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_actually the 2E, etc. (AGG, ADY iirc) were the tall block 8V (but with counterflow head.) 

I knew there was something of the like... were these available in the MkIII line?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16VJohn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16VJohn* »_
I knew there was something of the like... were these available in the MkIII line?
yes, euro mkiii cars.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

So... any clues on whether this will fit on the MK4?
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html
Apparently that link doesn't work... it's the BBM 16v SRI


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Are you thinking of doing a 16v head swap on your mk4?


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

It's a consideration.
The only reason I had ever decided against it was because I had been told originally that you had to swap pistons or stack gaskets and I'd prefer to not do either.
BUT if I can keep stock pistons, use a 3 layer and rather than 20v do a 16v then maybe it might be a good idea once the turbo comes around.
After all I have a fully built 8v and USRT SRI I can sell/trade to help pay for the swap, so it wouldn't be a huge investment for me.


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Is the 20V head really that much better than the 16V though? Seems like it's a lot more money with higher maintenance costs for minimal gains. I think a 2.0L 16V could produce more power than what you would want in a daily driver or what a transmission could handle...(for people with realistic budgets, anyway).


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Good point.
I'd end up building any head that I use anyway and parts for the 20v are considerably more expensive than the 16v


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Yeah, I guess if you have the parts already then this is another one of those situations where... "use what you've got in your garage now" type of thing. 
But don't get me wrong... the 20v engine is a magnificent beast. And to say that you have 5 valves per cylinder is pretty bad ass. not to mention cutting edge technology for a brand not normally recognized for innovation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (16VJohn)*

When doing the 2020 with the aba, you have to weld three oil passages closed. When doing the 1620 with the aeg+, would you have to open those passages back up?


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (16VJohn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16VJohn* »_I think a 2.0L 16V could produce more power than what you would want in a daily driver or what a transmission could handle...(for people with realistic budgets, anyway).

I like that quote. It makes a lot of sense - financially. It's just missing the word 'turbo' to be sig worthy...
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_When doing the 2020 with the aba, you have to weld three oil passages closed. When doing the 1620 with the aeg+, would you have to open those passages back up?
they can be plugged instead of welded. No, the 8v head does not have 5 and the 16v only has 2 and the other 3 cannot be "added."


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_they can be plugged instead of welded. No, the 8v head does not have 5 and the 16v only has 2 and the other 3 cannot be "added."

??? maybe it was the wording, but I'm confused.
The AEG block has how many oil passages, and the 16v head has how many???


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Yeah that confused me too.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_
??? maybe it was the wording, but I'm confused.
The AEG block has how many oil passages, and the 16v head has how many???
The aeg block has 5 (like a 20v block and head) but the 8v head on an aeg only has 2 and a 16v head only has 2. The aeg headgasket covers the other 3. The middle 3 cannot be added to an 8v or 16v head and are not needed.


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

that is very cool.
Thanks for the info.
So similar to the 20/20, an AEG+ 16/20 would only require a head, pistons, and manifold, and a way to fit the aeg+ cam gear and cps on the the 16v head, correct?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_that is very cool.
Thanks for the info.
So similar to the 20/20, an AEG+ 16/20 would only require a head, pistons, and manifold*s*, and a way to fit the aeg+ cam gear and cps on the the 16v head, correct?
yes, I would probably use the 9A rods also but not needed if they are 20mm pin rods. You could probably use the 20v cps bolted where the dizzy goes on a 16v.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Well the AEG doesn't have the dizzy so that should actually simplify the entire process for us MK4 guys.
And unless there is something I'm missing we should be able to use stock pistons as well.
If I decide to do this I'll make sure I check first and make an official post. Because only the MK3 guys have reported it for sure.
Either way the 3 layer gasket should help clear it out.


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

I think you're forgetting the cps, buddy. trigger wheel is in the cam gear


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_I think you're forgetting the cps, buddy.

Have you ever listened to Dane Cook's comedy tour stuff??? It's pretty funny, but he does a bit about guys calling each other out using terms like 'buddy', 'chief', 'pal' and finally 'gaylord'








Anyway, it seems as if 'buddy' is used in that context here, I could be wrong


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_I think you're forgetting the cps, buddy. trigger wheel is in the cam gear
the 20v cps is on the end of the cam and fits the 16v dizzy "hole" in the head.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (vwpat)*

So that's the diffrence between 20 and 31... huh! hehehe jk








So is there any custom mounting needed to be done to get that to stay in place?


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_So that's the diffrence between 20 and 31... huh! hehehe jk









pwnt by pat got pwnt by pat...


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Twicepardoned, buddy was used in the friendliest context. I love that skit though.
I was thinking you skipped over the dizzy part. My bad









I was just thinking:
how does the 20v cps signal compair to 8v?
Are the cam gears the same tooth count/will the 8v gear fit the 20v cam and key?


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 4:45 PM 10-11-2007_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_Twicepardoned, buddy was used in the friendliest context. I love that skit though.
I was thinking you skipped over the dizzy part. My bad









I was just thinking:
how does the 20v cps signal compair to 8v?
Are the cam gears the same tooth count/will the 8v gear fit the 20v cam and key?

_Modified by pwnt by pat at 4:45 PM 10-11-2007_
not sure how they compare, probably comparable. different setups.


----------



## chekos (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Sorry if i missed this i read half the pages in thread and it seems to go in circles.
I have a 9a block with 2.0l 16v head. Im using digi11 right now and have the fuel rail injector seats, 4 bar fpr and adapter. 
I did a a full rebuild, changed everything on the 16v that needed to be changed, new oil pump with updated windage tray, water pump etc... i also put some TT cams in, the ones based off the abf, and a exhaust. 
I want to do a high compression 16 aba. What do I need other then a complete 2.0l block preferable a obd 1 motor with oil squirters etc..?
I know I need the block off plate for the dizzy, a abf 16v timing belt or 150 tooth 1.8t, a automatic passat TB and some abf pistons off bahnbrenner or eurosport. What else? 
Do any of my pullies change?
I have all new motor mounts in my car(mk2 golf) will these work with 
the aba block
what engine management should I use? cis, obd1? obd2? digi 2?...?
I would like to stay away from megasquirt or stand alone, I don't have tons of cash for dynoing it, but if i really have to i will use it.
I have a shop near me that has a completly decked 1.8l 16v head. It's a head off a race car. PP, race cams,lifters, springs etc... If i mated this to the aba bottom end with the abf pistons would this car still be able to do Daily driver duties. Im not going to buy this but im just curious.
Lastly what kind of power are we seeing in the high comp N/A any one have a dyno sheets.


_Modified by chekos at 9:22 AM 10-12-2007_


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (chekos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chekos* »_Sorry if i missed this i read half the pages in thread and it seems to go in circles.


Yeah... I think the OP needs to update the first post to summarize the thread...


----------



## dbl_yelo_rado3 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (16VJohn)*

i am not sore if i should have stopped reading at the first post parts list but i would assume this is what you end up with if you drop the money and buy something new ? 
http://www.eurospecsport.com/2216V.htm
i am looking to get something for my caddy n/a but what i want to know is if i purchased a complete tall block what are my options for engine mangement ?


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (dbl_yelo_rado3)*

DAmn!!! that shortblock seems like a smashing deal!


----------



## dbl_yelo_rado3 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (16VJohn)*

they sell the non performance modified for about $2500 and i think with it being brand new justifies the cost over building one








but back to my question the 16valve can be used with a digifant system only ?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (dbl_yelo_rado3)*

it can be run on pretty much anything from carbs, CIS, Digifant I or II, Motronic to standalone.


----------



## dbl_yelo_rado3 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

do you know off hand of anyone who used a similar set up 
http://vag-parts.com/catalog/p...ewith motronic or standalone in a mk1 rabbit, thanks trying to start getting a list of what parts can be ordered new or have to be sourced.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm putting an ABA/16vT in my rabbit as we speak, but am building it for boost. So far I'm up to about $1500 including turbo and manifold on a low mileage ABA block. I have about another 800-1000 dollars left of parts I need to pick up. 
Oh and I'm going to run MegaSquirt.
PM me if you need details.


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (dbl_yelo_rado3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dbl_yelo_rado3* »_
but back to my question the 16valve can be used with a digifant system only ? 

I think the main reasons we use the aba is because the 2.0L 16V is a little hard to find sometimes... OR we use the ABA to get the crank position sensor for newer oem motronic systems. Megasquirt does not need the CPS.


----------



## rabbitdecarlos (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (16VJohn)*

i finally got all the parts to start puting my engine together, i was able to get the 9a pistons from a 2.0 16v and the intermidiate shaft as well, i got the bushing from the dealer so i can use aba conecting rods, the only problem that i have now is, on the 9a pistons they have two notchs on he top(for valve clarence i guess), wich direction are they supost to point?? the intake side or the exhaust side?
if any body could help me with this one i will really apreciate, as i say before i am on the final stage finally, after months of hunting for parts my quest is almost over, i want to take the time to thank every single person that has put any information in this specific forum, with out you people i wouldn't never know all the wonderful things the you can do with a volks wagen engine. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (rabbitdecarlos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitdecarlos* »_wich direction are they supost to point?? the intake side or the exhaust side? 

The notches go on the intake side because the intake valves are the ones that open on an angle... Good to hear you got everything you need! Keep us posted. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (16VJohn)*

quick question.
why would you do an ABA 16V over a 9A 16v?
I'm planning on buying a longblock PL 16V, but I'm curious as to why I should consider the ABA swap


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

A couple reasons actually:
1. ABA's are easier to come by and generally have lower miles
2. Early ABA's have a forged crank and oil squirters making it an ideal block to run high horsepower / high boost with.
3. The longer rods make a nicer torque curve.
4. For those running this setup in a Mk3, they can keep the stock engine management system.
A PL block is the 1.8l correct? Most parts from that can't be used due to their difference from the 9A block such as the intermediate shaft.


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

so, does the PL head not fit the ABA block?


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_so, does the PL head not fit the ABA block?

It does fit and is arguably the better head for the job! Are you going forced induction?


----------



## 16VJohn (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*

I dunnno... I think the 1.8 head is a better NA head.


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_
It does fit and is arguably the better head for the job! Are you going forced induction?

no. But I have access to an affordable PL.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

The 1.8 vs. 2.0 head debate is a big one and depends heavily on your application. The 1.8 head flows slightly better stock vs. stock, however with a bit of porting the 2.0 head can be just as good if not better. Exhaust cam mods on the 2.0 head will also equal things out a little. 
If you're doing NA and keeping things generally stock, stick with the 1.8 head. If you're going forced induction or are planning on doing some head work, I'd suggest the 2.0 head.
What I mean in my post above though was that the distributor block off plate won't fit and the intermediate shaft won't work off the 1.8 motor.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_
no. But I have access to an affordable PL.

If I were you, I'd stick with the PL if not going with forced induction. The ABA will lower your c/r to 8.5:1 unless you swap in 9A pistons (which you don't have) and even then it'll still be a lower c/r. Unless you were going to build a full motor with custom pistons, then it would be worth it. Read $$$
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_
If I were you, I'd stick with the PL if not going with forced induction. The ABA will lower your c/r to 8.5:1 unless you swap in 9A pistons (which you don't have) and even then it'll still be a lower c/r. Unless you were going to build a full motor with custom pistons, then it would be worth it. Read $$$
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


well, my big question is this:
if I can get a PL for $200... how much more money would be required to get 150hp?


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

150 crank or 150 wheel? It may be wrong but I think with some cams and megasquirt, you can get it up to 140 to the wheels. Of course this isn't based on any factual material








Quick edit: It takes anywhere from $500-800 bucks to Megasquirt a 16v.


_Modified by sicklyscott at 12:24 PM 10-16-2007_


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sicklyscott* »_150 crank or 150 wheel? It may be wrong but I think with some cams and megasquirt, you can get it up to 140 to the wheels. Of course this isn't based on any factual material








Quick edit: It takes anywhere from $500-800 bucks to Megasquirt a 16v.

crank.
so, like 135-140whp.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

The price on that Euro Spec motor is HORRIBLE!!!
Power to price is terrible, and truthfully for that price you can buy a way better car anyway...


----------



## Aladinsane07 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

I think it would be a good idea for anyone that has finished or is in the process of this build, and has a build thread, to post it up. Might clear up some issues related to (but not limited to) the head swap. 

Thoughts? Let's see 'em.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm in the process of doing it right now Aladin.
I have to pick up some gaskets etc but I should have everything for the entire swap by the weekend. 
One question, what head studs should I pick up? ABA or 16v?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

studs match the head, so 16v.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Thank you sir!
Any thoughts on preasure plate, clutch and flywheel? Looking to maintain around 220-250 hp.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

I used a spec stage 2 - overkill - possibly. But 220-250 will soon become 300+ I betcha!


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

yea but bye bye tranny!


----------



## rabbitdecarlos (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

just one question, after reading the thread some people say that i will need a 150 tooth timing belt from a 1.8t and some other people say that i will need a 153 tooth timing belt (gates: 90153x20)wich one is the correct one for my aplication??? if i am keeping the 16 valves distribuitor?? i also check last night, the timing belt for a 1.8t is about 3 to 4 milimeters narrower than the timing gear, is that the way that is suposed to be???









_Modified by rabbitdecarlos at 11:16 AM 10-23-2007_


_Modified by rabbitdecarlos at 4:17 PM 10-23-2007_


----------



## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

I have just a few questions I need answered as I am about to start tearing the car apart tomorrow. First is about vac lines. On the lower manifold there is a a port on the right side of the left most runner, is this for my FPR? On the upper manifold there are two nipples, on large one on the upper right side of the mani and on the backside near the firewall on the right also, I think the large one goes to my booster correct? But the other im not sure. 
I have the BBM breather plate and beetle valve cover breather, how should I have these two hooked up? 
Is there any difference timing this setup compared to a stock aba? 
Does anyone have a diagram of the sensors in the head so I make sure everything is right?
Thanks alot


----------



## deepgrooves74 (Aug 3, 2006)

*Rabbit Upper Strut Brace*

I wanted to get a front upper strut brace, but I wasn't sure which one would clear the taller block... 
I am putting together an ABA OBD1 with a 1.8 16v head, and (at first) the stock intake manifolds from a 16v scirocco. Later will be ITBs from my bud Scott at USRT.
Anyone have any suggestions?? I'd rather not have to make my own...
Thanks!!
CJ


_Modified by deepgrooves74 at 4:24 AM 10-25-2007_


----------



## Insertcoin (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (deepgrooves74)*

i think lower front brace does more good than upper.


----------



## rabbitdecarlos (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (deepgrooves74)*

does anybody has a picture of the timing belt installed??? or if anybody has the correct number part for the timing belt i will really apreciate!!!


----------



## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (rabbitdecarlos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitdecarlos* »_does anybody has a picture of the timing belt installed??? or if anybody has the correct number part for the timing belt i will really apreciate!!!

06b 109 119 a


----------



## rabbitdecarlos (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (malibu1228)*

i forgot to ask, who makes it?? and is it suposed to be narrower than a regular 16 valves timing belt?? i alredy check that timing belt and its about 3 to 4 milimeters narrower. is that the way that is suposed to be??










_Modified by rabbitdecarlos at 4:24 PM 10-26-2007_


----------



## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

Im not sure on the width but the belt is made by contitech


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (rabbitdecarlos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitdecarlos* »_i forgot to ask, who makes it?? and is it suposed to be narrower than a regular 16 valves timing belt?? i alredy check that timing belt and its about 3 to 4 milimeters narrower. is that the way that is suposed to be??










I don't think that it should be any narrower that a stock 16v belt. As noted from your previous post, it is (probably) 3mm or so narrower than the cam pulley. That's okay, but again I would think that anything narrower than a 16v belt must be an 8v belt (?) which is obviously designed to deal with less strain on it due to half as many valves. I couldn't swear that a 20v belt was wider than a 16v belt due to 'having more valves'. That's my theory!
This is what my ABF belt from BBM looked like - it settled to the left edge of the pulley, so what you see is the 3 (ish) mm








Hope that link works....!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rabbitdecarlos (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (infront)*

the link just answer my question!! thank you, you guys are the best!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rabbitdecarlos (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (rabbitdecarlos)*

i was checking bahn brenner motorsports for the head coolant flange, they are asking $159 and its on sale, that seems a little too expensive for me, does anybody knows were can i get one other than this place???


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (rabbitdecarlos)*

try and find a abf one


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (not SoQuick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *not SoQuick* »_try and find a abf one








 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif they are $30-35.


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (vwpat)*

im sure this has already been answered, but this post really needs to be cleaned up and i dont wanna scan through it... can you use a 1.8t serp pulley instead of buying the one from BBM ( running mk3 accesories)


----------



## Grig85 (Feb 11, 2006)

I am starting to build ABF hybrid over the winter, thanks for tons of helpfull info guys


----------



## Benny The Jetta (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: Rabbit Upper Strut Brace (deepgrooves74)*

according to the first page, you cant just take and obd1 block and put a 16v head on it? you need to get 2.0l 16v pistons?
also, will this work on an obd2 mk3, id rather not have 1000 MIL codes


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

you only need the 2.0l 16v pistons if you're going to run NA. I'm planning on running lots of boost so I kept the ABA pistons. If you keep the pistons the compression ratio should be around 8-8.5:1.
As for OBD2, I don't see why it wouldn't work.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sicklyscott* »_you only need the 2.0l 16v pistons (9A) if you're going to run NA. 
only if you want 9.2:1 which would be better for boost. If you want N/A, you need ABF type pistons which yield ~10.5:1.


----------



## Benny The Jetta (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

yeah, i want to run high amounts of boost also








im picking up an OBD1 block next week.
i could use a 1.8 or 2.0L 16v head, correct?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Benny The Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benny The Jetta* »_yeah, i want to run high amounts of boost also








im picking up an OBD1 block next week.
i could use a 1.8 or 2.0L 16v head, correct? 

yes, either. 2l is probably better stock for boost due to its better exhaust ports..


----------



## Benny The Jetta (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

whats the deal with CEL's?
if i do the swap will i have a check engine light?
id like to pass NYS obd2 inspection legal so im curious.
im picking up a 1.8l 16v head and an obd1 block this week.
i plan on getting the bbm kit. what else will i need?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Benny The Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Benny The Jetta* »_whats the deal with CEL's?
if i do the swap will i have a check engine light?
id like to pass NYS obd2 inspection legal so im curious.
im picking up a 1.8l 16v head and an obd1 block this week.
i plan on getting the bbm kit. what else will i need? 

Are you going to run NA, SC or Turbo?
If you use the correct software and do it right you can run CEL free.


----------



## GermanRob (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Okay, I started off in the xflow swap thread OOOPS








I have a 1989 CE2 shell with 16v harness in it
Also have at my disposal a Corrado G60 Dash n Cluster
I understand that info has changed soooo much in these threads that at this point it would be easier to just ask then to read and try to guestimate what would be best.
Also, has there been a solution found to the pulleys, other then BBM and/or the machining the crank whatever stuff. Buddy mentioned someone said something about just running an entire ABA block and he forgot the rest.... 
ABA OBD1 bottom
2.0 9A head
Haven't decided on tranny yet due to dash, but I do have a 9A on the car in my signature
I have access to several Jetta 2.slow donor cars so parts are easy to come by; but 16v parts are another story.
I DO PLAN TO DO TURBO FROM DAY 1
Was hoping for a master list of parts needed so I can start collecting and putting this sucker together.... and any links, pics, diagrams, explanations of wiring is greatly appreciated.
Dumb questions
#1
ABA bottom is bolt in affair on my setup? (not incl. wiring)
#2
With the Rado cluster it would be cheaper (and better) to run 2.slow tranny?
#3
Do I need to ditch my Fuse box? I've read both ways on CE2 cars, but nothing that correlates to a Rado cluster swap.
#4
What's this stuff I'm hearing about swapping to a mk3 gas tank?
#5
DOES ANYONE HAVE THE SKILL AND DESIRE TO BUILD ME A HARNESS FOR THIS SETUP? WILLING TO PAY IN G60 PARTS OR POSSIBLY CASH


_Modified by GermanRob at 10:25 AM 11-13-2007_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (GermanRob)*

I can't find my only question in this whole damn thread even know I KNOW this has been answered but
*What hoses/flanges can be used for the coolant system? I dont mind cheap shortcuts as long as they work







*


----------



## mk3aba20vt (Dec 28, 2006)

Why cant you use the 1.8 intermediate shaft and dist blockoff? I had it mocked up in my block and it seemed fine?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (mk3aba20vt)*

IS will not clear #4 rod and block off plate diameter is smaller than the "hole" in the 2.0 bock.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_I can't find my only question in this whole damn thread even know I KNOW this has been answered but
*What hoses/flanges can be used for the coolant system? I dont mind cheap shortcuts as long as they work







*

When I get in on Monday I will try to help answer this one.
What car is your ABA 16V going into?
Are you running NA Turbo or Supercharger?


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (GermanRob)*

imo most of these questions would be better answered or the answers searched for and found elsewhere than this thread








#1
ABA bottom is bolt in affair on my setup? (not incl. wiring)
pretty much yes (its just really a aba in a a2)allthough may have to swap a mount or 2 but nothing to custom fab 
#2
With the Rado cluster it would be cheaper (and better) to run 2.slow tranny?
best trans imo is the rado o2a but you would have to swap to cable shift hydro clutch from the rado or a passat.If you stick with the o2o just take the one with what you feel is easiest and has the best ratios for you......but be warned take it easy







from experience the cheapest way to go is with the o2a from the start








#3
Do I need to ditch my Fuse box? I've read both ways on CE2 cars, but nothing that correlates to a Rado cluster swap.
no clue here your going to have to take some time and search what works and what will work best for you
#4
What's this stuff I'm hearing about swapping to a mk3 gas tank?
thats the 1st I've heard of this other than if you have a issue with your current tank







just make sure your fueling(pump setup) is up to grade on what hp levels your shooting for and if you ask me I like to have a little headroom here









#5
DOES ANYONE HAVE THE SKILL AND DESIRE TO BUILD ME A HARNESS FOR THIS SETUP? WILLING TO PAY IN G60 PARTS OR POSSIBLY CASH

no thanks my girl would leave me for sure


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
When I get in on Monday I will try to help answer this one.
What car is your ABA 16V going into?
Are you running NA Turbo or Supercharger?

It'll be in a MKII chassis and it will, indeed be turbo charged. I've got an extra MKIII rad and an extra sciricco rad if that would make it easier.
TIA










_Modified by atrujillo1991 at 9:33 AM 12-7-2007_


----------



## mk3aba20vt (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: (vwpat)*

I got the IS and blockoff out of a 87' 1.8 16v gti and the shaft fits without hitting and the blockoff is larger that the opening on the block?


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (mk3aba20vt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3aba20vt* »_I got the IS and blockoff out of a 87' 1.8 16v gti and the shaft fits without hitting and the blockoff is larger that the opening on the block?










it fits till you spin the crank


----------



## thumpergtivw (Jan 20, 2007)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

ok, if anyone has run the setup i am putting together , suggestions on cams would be great. Also where can i get lightweight lifters or should i switch to solid, since this will be a race car. OK, 95 OBD1 ABA BLOCK, BAHN BRENNER ABF PISTONS 10:5:1 CR, WEBER 45 MILL DUAL CARBS, PORTED 1.8 16V HEAD, 50-100 SHOT OF NOS. I love the sound of a 8v revvin out to 8 grd or so, i am just worried about floatin the valves and havin a collision at the top end while sprayin it, sound dangerous. I was going to go with autotechs sport cams, bahn brenner 288 , or tt 288 , 300. OBVIOUSLY, CLEARANCE WILL NEED TO BE CHECKED WITH CLAY, i have just never ran big cams in a 16v hydraulic head. 8V GURU. I run tt 306 currently http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif














HAVE A HAPPY AND SAFE HOLIDAY !


----------



## kevlar_vw (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (thumpergtivw)*

I heard reusing pistons is not a good idea, even if changing the wrist pins and rings, any input? I'm not trying to skimp on $$ but I have 9A pistons, why buy new ones if I have them laying around.


----------



## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

As long as the piston is in good shape and you measure all your clearances you shouldnt have a problem using old pistons.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*

Still trying to figure out what I need!

_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
When I get in on Monday I will try to help answer this one.
What car is your ABA 16V going into?
Are you running NA Turbo or Supercharger?

It'll be in a MKII chassis and it will, indeed be turbo charged. I've got an extra MKIII rad and an extra sciricco rad if that would make it easier.
TIA


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*

for hoses you will use the plastic flange on side of head. you will then use all stock 16v hoses. you could use either rad, the scirocco one will fit perfectally on the mk2 paddle.


_Modified by bonesaw at 1:58 PM 12-7-2007_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (bonesaw)*

16v MKII or passat?


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*

most of them should be the same, id say the mk2 ones. if you are using the abf flange the upper rad hose gets a little tricky


----------



## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

16v passat hoses, get em


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (malibu1228)*


_Quote, originally posted by *malibu1228* »_16v passat hoses, get em

What makes the passat hoses a better choice over the A2 hoses?
I was thinking about running a Rocco radiator. Aren't the in and out ports on the same side (passenger?). I also have read recently that the 02a won't bolt up the the ABA backing plate. Do I need a backing plate from a g60?


_Modified by atrujillo1991 at 9:38 AM 12-11-2007_


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

Yes the Rocco rad. inlet/outlet are on the same side.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

Okay, so do the 16v hoses line up with a rocco radiator?


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Ok, motor is going together. 
ABA bottom, 1.8 head.
ABF pistons.
Staying NA for a bit, and looking into cams. Without having to do too much upgrading, what's my best bet?
How much valve clearance is there with the stock cams and ABF pistons, anyone know?


----------



## deepgrooves74 (Aug 3, 2006)

*Piston Sources*

I am trying to buy forged/cast pistons for my NA conversion... 
I am using the ABA connecting rods (I have an ODB1)
I would like to buy 83.5 10.5:1, but I can't seem to find a source that's reasonable in price...








Does anyone have a good place???








CJ







Happy Holidays!!


----------



## goofydug (Feb 5, 2004)

I got my forged wiseco pistons from import performance parts. They are 83mm abf pistons with 11:1 CR. I think i paid just north of $500.
You might be able to go straight through wiseco, all IPP did was have them custom made and shipped from wiseco. Cut out the middle man and save some $$.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (goofydug)*

http://www.porttuning.com is a Wiseco dealer also and is the "VW specialist" for them since Bertils does not sell them any more.


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Bildon Motorsports now lists Wossner ABF pistons in different bores and 12.5:1 compression ratio in forged for around $550.00. Not sure if this info has been posted or not yet...


----------



## tumultuous101 (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: (evil-e)*

when you put a 16v head on a aba block are there any problems with like oil passages and coolant jacket lining up? i've been looking into doing the head swap a little bit more and more but never really seen if it does or not.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (tumultuous101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tumultuous101* »_when you put a 16v head on a aba block are there any problems with like oil passages and coolant jacket lining up? i've been looking into doing the head swap a little bit more and more but never really seen if it does or not.
everything lines up fine.


----------



## tumultuous101 (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

thanks


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: (tumultuous101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tumultuous101* »_when you put a 16v head on a aba block are there any problems with like oil passages and coolant jacket lining up? i've been looking into doing the head swap a little bit more and more but never really seen if it does or not.

take a head gasket from each and place one on top of the other.. hold them up in the air and you will see..


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (Mylch)*

Quick question: I have a 16vt 9a bottom end and 1.8 head with arp head studs. Can i reuse my arp studs on the aba block?


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (16vtblackjetta)*

yes, studs are head specific.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

Would I be able to use a g60 block with the a 1.8 or 2.0 16v head? I have a mk3 and wanted to use stock acces. and management


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (ChinkyVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ChinkyVdub* »_Would I be able to use a g60 block with the a 1.8 or 2.0 16v head? I have a mk3 and wanted to use stock acces. and management

You can with our custom pistons
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...n_Set
Why not use the ABA block, mo displacement, better rod ratio? 
What are you doing here, turbo, super or NA?


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
You can with our custom pistons
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...n_Set
Why not use the ABA block, mo displacement, better rod ratio? 
What are you doing here, turbo, super or NA?

well I want a ABA block but can find a decent one that has not have a blown gasket, overheated, and too far. I have friend thats doing a 1.8corrado. Though I may take his motor off his hands. But wasn't sure if the block similiar to the aba. mounts, wiring, etc. Im looking to do more work than I need too. although I know im going to put some work on the block.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

so let me get this straight... for the oil pump drive set up i can either:
1)use a 9A Intermediate shaft set up
2)use a bbm gizzy dizzy
3)leave the stock aba dizzy in there w/o a rotor or cap just to drive the pump

am i correct?


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mean_green)*

if you use the 9a stuff you need a 9a oil pump. any option will work but no matter what the pulley needs to be changed to the 16v pulley.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mean_green)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mean_green* »_so let me get this straight... for the oil pump drive set up i can either:
1)use a 9A Intermediate shaft set up
2)use a bbm gizzy dizzy
3)leave the stock aba dizzy in there w/o a rotor or cap just to drive the pump

am i correct? 

1) If you run the 9A intermediate shaft you will also need the oil pump, distributor block off that goes in the block... and the intermediate shaft timing belt gear. You will also need the longer timing belt.
2) If you use the dizzy gizzy you will also then need the modified 16V intermediate shaft timing gear and the longer timing belt.
3) I've not seen this done, whoever it you would need the same modified intermediate shaft timing gear and the longer timing belt.
For all three you will also need the wider timing belt gear behind the crank shaft pulley.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

soooo just bolt a 16v Intermedate shaft gear on and leave the stock dizzy in place and I should be set right? that would be the cheapest route.. may look ugly but works (leaving the dizzy there)


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mean_green)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mean_green* »_soooo just bolt a 16v Intermedate shaft gear on and leave the stock dizzy in place and I should be set right? that would be the cheapest route.. may look ugly but works (leaving the dizzy there)

Putting the 16V intermediate shaft timing belt gear on the ABA intermediate shaft requires a specially modified 16V gear.
We dial them in on our tool room lathe, shave them down. Broach out a new key-way and also include a broached spacer to make it work.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...L_16V


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

that may be the best route then.... 
so your gear and a dizzy gizzy i'll be set your saying correct?
and if i run the 16v crank gear, i'd have to shave down an ABA Pulley so my serp set up will all line up?


_Modified by mean_green at 6:17 PM 1-24-2008_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mean_green)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mean_green* »_that may be the best route then.... 
so your gear and a dizzy gizzy i'll be set your saying correct?
and if i run the 16v crank gear, i'd have to shave down an ABA Pulley so my serp set up will all line up?

_Modified by mean_green at 6:17 PM 1-24-2008_

Correct + the longer timing belt.
When you cut the ABA crank pulley down you also need to machine a counter bore with a hub centric ring insert. By the time you pay to have this done correctly by a competent machinist you might just pick up one of these.








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=630


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

that pulley cost more then i bought my aba shortblock for

you should throw together a package deal, all the pulleys, timing belt, etc....



_Modified by mean_green at 9:17 PM 1-24-2008_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mean_green)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mean_green* »_that pulley cost more then i bought my aba shortblock for

you should throw together a package deal, all the pulleys, timing belt, etc....

_Modified by mean_green at 9:17 PM 1-24-2008_
you mean like this?







http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...n_Kit


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*

Good Deal! But I want an ABA underdrive pulley w/ v-belt as well because I will be running powersteering although I would rather not and just run a manuel steering rack
But does bbm sell a modified underdrive w/ vbelt?
And would all the hoses be necessary w/ a scirocco application?

What about this alum pulley on ebay?








30 bucks on ebay... then just have a machine shop take a few mm's off










_Modified by mean_green at 7:03 AM 1-25-2008_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mean_green)*

I was also thinking about using that pulley.
As far as the V belt pulley goes, it's actually a separate pulley. It separates from the crank pulley with 4 allen key bolts. I have a few. Let me know if you need one


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_I was also thinking about using that pulley.
As far as the V belt pulley goes, it's actually a separate pulley. It separates from the crank pulley with 4 allen key bolts. I have a few. Let me know if you need one









Just remember, you get what you pay for and it might even be a paper weight.
The serp groove geometry and tolerances are very critical on this part.
I'm not sure how on earth you could sell a good crank pulley properly manufactured for only $30 
I personally am not at all a fan of under drive pulleys. They run the superchargers slower and as some of us know VW's like all the voltage they can get.
Just my opinion


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I'm not sure how on earth you could sell a good crank pulley properly manufactured for only $30 



Easy... they are asian and have little kids making the parts , btw i changed my name from mean_green to a more appropriate name as of now... my stage iv rado is gone now


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (slow_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slow_16v* »_

Easy... they are asian and have little kids making the parts , btw i changed my name from mean_green to a more appropriate name as of now... my stage iv rado is gone now

No comment, happy weekend


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (JBETZ)*

I have a feeling I will be buying quite a bit of stuff from BBM soon though.
I know my buddy can machine the aba crank pulley (just going to do the oem pulley), but the intermediate shaft gear may be hard... I have a feeling i'll be going w/ the 9a stuff a dizzy gizzy and the gear would be pricey, i'd rather save the bills and put that into my head work


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (slow_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slow_16v* »_I have a feeling I will be buying quite a bit of stuff from BBM soon though.
I know my buddy can machine the aba crank pulley (just going to do the oem pulley), but the intermediate shaft gear may be hard... I have a feeling i'll be going w/ the 9a stuff a dizzy gizzy and the gear would be pricey, i'd rather save the bills and put that into my head work

If you just need the hub centric ring for the crank pulley and the spacer for the intermediate shaft pulley.
I can help you out. I know what its like to be on a budget and it's also smart to put the monies into the best places for max powa!
Just give me a call and I will hook you up.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (all-starr-me)*

Hell now I dont even know if i want to turbo the aba 16v... im thinking of just doing a NA set up w/ 9a pistons


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (slow_16v)*

so if i get a 16 v head what do u do for spark. if you get the plate to plug up the hole for the distributer. and also if i get the head, can i run my stock aba pistons in it.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (98jettadub)*

You would typically run the 16v dizzy but I honestly do not know why you couln't just make some custom super long wires to go from the stock aba dizzy.....

you would need a custom intermediate shaft gear though then... if you did it that way.

Just do this.. buy the custom Intermedaite shaft timing belt gear from bbm, keep your aba dizzy in there just to drive the oil pump, but use the 16v dizzy to fire on then you can use a 16v plug wires and be good. 
you can use the aba pistons yes but your comp ratio will be very and wouldn't be fun for an NA set up


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (slow_16v)*

im new here it probably will sound dumb but wat is a dizzy.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (98jettadub)*

distributor http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (slow_16v)*

how would you run 2 distributers and will the manifolds from the 2.0 bolt up to the head?


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (98jettadub)*

hmmm you may want to start out by looking at a 16v engine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
No.. an aba intake will not bolt up to a 16v head.

you can run two distributors by leaving your stock aba one in place to drive the oil pump and then just using the stock 16v one that is connected to the head to fire the car


_Modified by slow_16v at 8:31 PM 1-29-2008_


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (slow_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slow_16v* »_hmmm you may want to start out by looking at a 16v engine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
No.. an aba intake will not bolt up to a 16v head.

you can run two distributors by leaving your stock aba one in place to drive the oil pump and then just using the stock 16v one that is connected to the head to fire the car

_Modified by slow_16v at 8:31 PM 1-29-2008_

Just so you know, the aba distributor cap doesn't fit underneath the 16v intake. I saw one guy who found a cap that worked, but it wasn't for this engine


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (tauntedmonster)*

you dont need a cap... just pull the rotor and cap off... call it good.. your free dizzy gizzy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

But you also need the wider int. shaft gear, which doesn't line up with the 8v int shaft, iirc


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (tauntedmonster)*

Yeah thats why you can either get the bbm modded gear or bring your 16v one to get machined...

or do it the hardcore cheapo way and do all 9a internals (oil pump, intermediate shaft, 16v inter gear)


----------



## DEV!N (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: (slow_16v)*

This question has probably been answered already but does the stock 16v exhuast manifold link up to the rest of the stock mke exhaust? I got one made custom but im just wondering.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (Gambito)*

depends on what manifold you use..... you being a mk3... you would want to get a mk2 16v exhaust manifold and downpipe and it should bolt right up to your triangular looking flange right before the catalytic converter.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (slow_16v)*

sooo here is something I want to know... if BBM's ABA16v pulley is also a direct bolt on for the 1.8t.... why can't I just use an oem 1.8t pulley on my aba16v?


----------



## DEV!N (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: (slow_16v)*

thanks


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (Gambito)*

Okay so here is what my parts list is consisting of right now:
OBD1 ABA block:
9A (2.016v) Oil pump/Intermediate shaft w/ Timing belt gear
1.8t/obd2 2.0 crank pulley
1.8t timing belt (152 tooth)
1.8L 16v Head

all oem parts.... no fab work... sweet oil squirters, forged crank, low comp boost ready engine for very little money, just some time and some elbow grease 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (slow_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slow_16v* »_sooo here is something I want to know... if BBM's ABA16v pulley is also a direct bolt on for the 1.8t.... why can't I just use an oem 1.8t pulley on my aba16v? 

You could, check the wreckers...
They want a grip for these babies.
Or you can have this. 
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...d=630


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

the obd2 ABA has a larger timing belt as well correct? I could technically use one of those from a mk4 jetta/golf? those are in the yards all over around here


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (slow_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slow_16v* »_the obd2 ABA has a larger timing belt as well correct? I could technically use one of those from a mk4 jetta/golf? those are in the yards all over around here

incorrect... aba's have the same skinny 8v belt


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_
incorrect... aba's have the same skinny 8v belt

Yeah I just figured that out while at the junkyard right now... the mk4 8v had the skinny belt... but there was an AEB out there.. so i grabed the pulley... 10 bucks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

that's what i luv about the vw's, u can put crazy combo's together http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
some of u just get a little to creative


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I am still debating on short runner or not... i have a polished 16v scirocco manifold so i may just use that... probably be ordering a fuel rail from ya and some other things as well


----------



## NikoManyati (Apr 11, 2007)

Ive spent the last few days reading all of the aba 16V threads from top to bottom. Ive decided that this is something I am going to do with my MK3 Golf circle track car seeing as I have the 16V motor to do it. I have to run it NA and plan on running it on the existing ECU more than likely with a chip(id like to do something standalone but I think if they started fishing around under the hood I may get some crap for it). 
The questions I have are what kind of power range the motor puts out. The track is a little under 1/4 mile and last year ran the full aba tall block and was taching it out at 7400rpm in 2nd gear which is a little over 70mph. Can the ABA 16V handle hitting that kind of rev going from 5000-7500rpm every lap? Or would I be better off getting a close ratio tranny and running 3rd gear? Just afraid if I make it 3rd gear the track might be a little too small to get into the power range of the motor.
Any help would be appreciated, Thanks in advance.


----------



## turoc (Mar 11, 2003)

can we get away with an aba 16v build if we had an existing PL 1.8 or things like timing gear and intermediate gear have to be off of 2.0?


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (turoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turoc* »_can we get away with an aba 16v build if we had an existing PL 1.8 o

hmmmm aba16v w/ a PL block eh?









Reading is your friend good sir... hit up page uno


----------



## turoc (Mar 11, 2003)

Ive read thru but i believe you did not understand what i am saying. If i have a PL complete motor can things like the timing gear and intermediate shaft used or would i have to have a 9A 2lt 16v and use those off of that?
Obviously aba/16v would be an aba block with a 16v head


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (turoc)*

lol... yes the pl and 9a have the exact same things..


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

which coolant lines do you run with the aba 16v???


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_lol... yes the pl and 9a have the exact same things..
not many parts are the same. All the internal parts: IS, oil pump, oil pump drive, dizzy block off plug, etc. are different and are the ones you need for the ABA. You can use the pullies, crank gear and head from the PL.


----------



## turoc (Mar 11, 2003)

Can we still use 16 Pressure plate, flywheel and clutch?


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (turoc)*

yes they all bolt up the same...


----------



## rabbitdecarlos (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

i just finish installing a 16v aba into my scirocco 87, let me tell you guys the car runs really smooth, i used 9a pistons and the engine fills really strong, thanks to all the people that help me out with all the questions that i have, without you people i never woulnt being able to complete.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## turoc (Mar 11, 2003)

How bout some pics? more info on what you did


----------



## tfatout (Feb 20, 2008)

Hi, there new to the forum so sorry for any misuse of postings etc. Just wondering whoever has converted the 16v dizzy to single window HAL. What is the easiest you have found to knock out the pin at the bottom. I am having a hell of a time. thing won't budge.


----------



## tfatout (Feb 20, 2008)

*Re: (tfatout)*

nm, finally got that dang pin out.







brand new punch from snappy and a few good hits, tada!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (tfatout)*

good deal... that little pin can be difficult.
Oh and welcome! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tumultuous101 (Dec 28, 2005)

My plan is to do the head swap and try and see if i can use the bbm stage three supercharge kit with it, has anyone in here done this? i was even thinking about making it a 2.1L with a lightened crank and change all of the internals just not really sure if you can use the bbm supercharge kit.


----------



## deepgrooves74 (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: (tumultuous101)*

Just so youu know that with a 95.5 crank you will not be able to spin as high R's that you would like... but then again the whole beauty behind a supercharger is that it comes in really early...
I am running an NA set-up myself.
cj


----------



## tumultuous101 (Dec 28, 2005)

well i was planning on running a lightened one simmilar to one on autotech, the rotating mass is the same as a stock one.... i think that should make it rev about the same. kinda new to this whole swap to be honest, i've always been into the vr6's.


----------



## kevlar_vw (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: (tumultuous101)*

what are people running for ECU? both motors are Motronic, so does it matter? I'm planning this for my A1 Jetta, that I swapped CE2 into...any sugjestions?


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (ABAinA1)*

digi 1 or ms.... the motronics in both cars are totally different from each other


----------



## cra2y86 (Nov 27, 2004)

Did a quick control+F on about 20 pages and didn't find my answer...
What are my alternatives to using the New Beetle Breather? 
A catch can?


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (cra2y86)*

yes a catch can would be the exuvilent... but the only reason we use the beatle breather is because it is the easiest to extract vapors from the head.. without any modification..


----------



## cra2y86 (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## phat whodi vr6 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (cra2y86)*

does anyone know what crank bearings you would use if you put the tdi cranks in the aba block? has anyone dones this with that setup and a 16v head? im thinkin bored stroked aba 16vt for the next project but i dont know much about the tdi stroker swapage......
can you use the aba rods with that crank? is that crank forged as well?
or is as simple as same setup just use that crank instead of the aba???


_Modified by phat whodi vr6 at 4:14 AM 3-21-2008_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (tumultuous101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tumultuous101* »_My plan is to do the head swap and try and see if i can use the bbm stage three supercharge kit with it, has anyone in here done this? i was even thinking about making it a 2.1L with a lightened crank and change all of the internals just not really sure if you can use the bbm supercharge kit.

You can do it, I have. There are pics earlier in this thread.


----------



## karpiak (Oct 30, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

can this work:
1.8 8v head
aba block
aba pistons
aba rods
16v crank
if this is good what is the difference in the 16v crank and the aba crank??


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (karpiak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *karpiak* »_can this work:
1.8 8v head
aba block
aba pistons
aba rods
16v crank
if this is good what is the difference in the 16v crank and the aba crank??
aba crank has the trigger wheel needed for some fuel/magement systems. OBD-II cranks are cast. 16V (I hope you mean 2L 16V, 9A) cranks and OBD-I ABAs are forged.


----------



## konadownhill (May 25, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

you guys are gunna hate this but im planning on running a 1.8 16v head on my 98 jetta gl. plan on high boosting and lookign to spend the leats amoutn of money possible. got a head wiht intake manifolds and the stock pistons its came with, apparently this is the german version of the head(no idea if it makes a difference) first off wat fuel management system does my 98 jetta have and how much is it gunna be to convert it to mega squirt(also can i leave the fuel management i have now and will it work just as good?)


----------



## konadownhill (May 25, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

you guys are gunna hate this but im planning on running a 1.8 16v head on my 98 jetta gl. plan on high boosting and lookign to spend the leats amoutn of money possible. got a head wiht intake manifolds and the stock pistons its came with, apparently this is the german version of the head(no idea if it makes a difference) first off wat fuel management system does my 98 jetta have and how much is it gunna be to convert it to mega squirt(also can i leave the fuel management i have now and will it work just as good? oh and since its an ob2 are there gunan be any revisions to the parts u guys already have at the top?


----------



## 96VDubbin (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (konadownhill)*

been a long time since ive read thru this thread but is there anyone n here that is daily driving their 16v/abaT??


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (96VDubbin)*

<<< Daily Driven


----------



## 96VDubbin (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Greengt1)*

how many psi daily n if u don't mind whats ur general setup?


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (96VDubbin)*

15-20 
digi 1 42#
Stock Head
TT Street Cams
Stock Bottom
ARP Headstuds
Aba Head Gasket
volvo .48 a/r turbo (too small) INSTASPOOL















Check out
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3687939




_Modified by Greengt1 at 12:36 PM 3-31-2008_


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_15-20 
digi 1 42#
Stock Head
TT Street Cams
Stock Bottom
ARP Headstuds
Aba Head Gasket
volvo .48 a/r turbo (too small) INSTASPOOL















Check out
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3687939
_Modified by Greengt1 at 12:36 PM 3-31-2008_

Greengt1: Are you using the 1.8 or 2.0L head?


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (papichulo7)*

2.0


----------



## 96VDubbin (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Greengt1)*

well i daily my abaT now and have been lookin at this swap for a while n just wasn't sure if it'd b ok for daily


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (96VDubbin)*

Does anyone have CONFIRMED compression ratio specs?
I'm going FI and I'd like a 9:1 or 9.5:1 CR. I was planning on having Wiseco pistons forges especially for FI and It'd be AWESOME if I had a base line to go off of.


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

this is a question for those running the 16vABA NA on mk3 engine management, what chip are ya'll using?
I'm getting all my pieces together right now, and just need to know what options I have.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_Does anyone have CONFIRMED compression ratio specs?
I'm going FI and I'd like a 9:1 or 9.5:1 CR. I was planning on having Wiseco pistons forges especially for FI and It'd be AWESOME if I had a base line to go off of.

you will need 11:1 pistons with releifs to get a 9.5:1 ratio


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_this is a question for those running the 16vABA NA on mk3 engine management, what chip are ya'll using?
I'm getting all my pieces together right now, and just need to know what options I have.

I have ran on Nospeed chip, TT chip and stock chip. All ran fine but the 16v does not like the 8v timing. You can ask Colin @ TT to make you a chip for the MK3 with 16v maps but I recommend standalone!


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_
I have ran on Nospeed chip, TT chip and stock chip. All ran fine but the 16v does not like the 8v timing. You can ask Colin @ TT to make you a chip for the MK3 with 16v maps but I recommend standalone!

Thanks for the info.
I'm debating that right now. I'm trying to see if it would be easier to go with a pretty much stock 16vABA on chip or do a full ITB/SEM build.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*

I've been running my aba16v for quite some time on a chip and I'm quite happy with it. Mind you I'm pretty critical about how my car runs and I have zero complaints, well except for fuel economy and tire wear. 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 9:17 PM 4-11-2008_


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_well except for fuel economy and tire wear. 

I can live with that


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

Wow its been a while since i first made this thread. Everytime i get on here there is always new posts. I kind of abandoned it. I have actually left the VW scene for the 4g63T. Im going to get with some ppl though and see if i cant get the original first post can be updated with all the new and correct information. If there are any posts of importance those of you that know about them and have helped ppl with this combination please point them out to me. Im going to try and get ahold of JBETZ as well to get some help straightening this out. If you all see him or he sees this then send me a PM or email.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

Sounds good!
Make sure to include confirmed compression ratios with different pistons and so forth.
For the record, the best set of pistons you could go with for this build are ABF spec pistons. You can get them through company's like JE or Wiseco (which I prefer) in different compression ratios or you could have them made to your specs (for those of us who are anal and take into consideration how much the block and head were decked







)


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_this is a question for those running the 16vABA NA on mk3 engine management, what chip are ya'll using?
I'm getting all my pieces together right now, and just need to know what options I have.

I'll be running a C2 chip. They have the best stuff I've seen/driven/heard of. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

_Modified by JBETZ at 10:52 PM 4-22-2008_


----------



## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

so much information.. my mind is boggling... 
can anyone help me out please...
i have... 
1x mk3 2.0 8v uk spec counterflow engine.
1x mk2 1.8 8v uk spec engine 
1x m45 supercharger from a mini
1x aftermarket management.
I am looking to run the 16v head on the 2.0 8v block, with the charger, im going to run a shortened inlet and remove the A/C.
I need to know the following...
standard internals with the 16v should be fine as far as im aware from reading through here..
can i just run my ign timing from the mk3 8v block dizzy with longer leads for the 16v head?
fuelling side of it i was going to run vr6 injectors with a facet redtop fuel pump and filterking fpr.
is there anything else i need to take into consideration internally?? can i just blank off the dizzy on the 16v head? 
sorry for all the Q's its just im finding all this information boggling at the moment.
Thanks Dicky


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (ac_morris)*

You could run the 8v dizzy but you'd need BBM's special IM gear (it fits the ABA im shaft but is 6mm wider to accomade the 16v's wider timing belt). People usually don't use the 8v dizzy because it won't fit under a 16v intake manifold. As far as a block-off plate is concerned, 034 motorsports makes one hell of a nice piece.
*Now, on to my question.*








I'm using my 16v ABA in my MKII. I've read that the radiator hoses I'd need are from the 16v Passat. will they work with the MKI radiator with the filler neck? Notice the inlet/outlet are both on the passanger side.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I'm doing an NA ABA16v in my mk3 and I'm curious about injectors. Are the stock going to be fine since I'm not running boost, or should I still look at upgrading to possibly the g60 injectors?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (Kabinotar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kabinotar* »_I'm doing an NA ABA16v in my mk3 and I'm curious about injectors. Are the stock going to be fine since I'm not running boost, or should I still look at upgrading to possibly the g60 injectors?

Stock 19s are fine.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*

Excellent news.


----------



## BlkTrek97 (Dec 18, 2007)

I have been thinking for a few months now to do the 16v swap on to my 97 2.0 aba. Now the question is, I'm trying to achieve about 200 whp out of this. What would be the most "Money efficient" route, to stay N/A or go FI? Taking in to consideration the cost of anything i would need to achieve that power (200whp)


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (BlkTrek97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlkTrek97* »_I have been thinking for a few months now to do the 16v swap on to my 97 2.0 aba. Now the question is, I'm trying to achieve about 200 whp out of this. What would be the most "Money efficient" route, *to stay N/A or go FI*? Taking in to consideration the cost of anything i would need to achieve that power (200whp)

EDIT: THAT WENT TOTALLY OVER MY HEAD

_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_For one, comparing N/A and EFI are like comparing oranges to apples...

To acheive 200 whp N/A... you will need to use stock 9a pistons on aba rods, with a shaved 16v head with cams.
This is my idea of acheiving it off the top of my head...
Somebody correct me if im wrong...



_Modified by Greengt1 at 1:49 PM 4-21-2008_


----------



## BlkTrek97 (Dec 18, 2007)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

About the pistons, I was thinking if I stay N/A, to buy a set of ABF ones. One more thing, I keep hearing about having to get an intake from a Rocco. Why can't I just used the one from my donor engine? It came out of a 87 Golf GTI 1.8 16V.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (BlkTrek97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlkTrek97* »_About the pistons, I was thinking if I stay N/A, to buy a set of ABF ones. One more thing, I keep hearing about having to get an intake from a Rocco. Why can't I just used the one from my donor engine? It came out of a 87 Golf GTI 1.8 16V.
You can use the A2 intake (pass side TB), most people use the rocco one (drivers side TB) when going turbo or supercharged because it is easier to route intercooler piping with it.


----------



## BlkTrek97 (Dec 18, 2007)

Gotcha! Thanks for the reply. I'm leaning more towards N/A anyways. I just wanna make sure I can achieve my goal of 200Whp, with out having to sell a kidney on the black market. I like having both of those. I got a bit scared after reading some other threads talking about ABF engines just pushing about 130 ish whp N/A.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (BlkTrek97)*

An ABF is rated at 150 HP, and with a re-chip and de-cat they put out 170-175. 200 will require better cams and headwork at least if not standalone. Not sure where you saw 130 HP unless that was wheel HP on a stock ABF. I saw you said 200 WHP. That is pretty much race spec and will require 2 kidneys.







That goal would be easier and cheaper to go turbo.


----------



## BlkTrek97 (Dec 18, 2007)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Does anyone makes a turbo kit for this swap or do I have to buy the kinetics turbo kit made for the A2 16v, like the one that Black Forest Ind. sells? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I am trying to learn really quick.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BlkTrek97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlkTrek97* »_Does anyone makes a turbo kit for this swap or do I have to buy the kinetics turbo kit made for the A2 16v, like the one that Black Forest Ind. sells? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I am trying to learn really quick.









we can help, link below


----------



## GLaurence (Mar 23, 2008)

Can you bypass the whole distributor trigger wheel/sensor switch by just getting a custom eprom?
I don't know of any shops with presses around this area and I can't afford one.
oh and btw john, when is that complete 16v aba turbo kit gonna roll out?


_Modified by GLaurence at 4:33 PM 4-29-2008_


----------



## sciroccoboy16v (Sep 4, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

does bbm make a manifold for 16v's that allows you to install itb's without further modifications to the intake


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_








I'm using my 16v ABA in my MKII. I've read that the radiator hoses I'd need are from the 16v Passat. will they work with the MKI radiator with the filler neck? Notice the inlet/outlet are both on the passanger side.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (sciroccoboy16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoboy16v* »_does bbm make a manifold for 16v's that allows you to install itb's without further modifications to the intake

Negative, we did build this t-body engine for a customer about 3 yrs. ago.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Anyone who is running theirs NA, what exhaust size are you running? Not sure if I wanna go 2.25" or 2.5".


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Kabinotar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kabinotar* »_Anyone who is running theirs NA, what exhaust size are you running? Not sure if I wanna go 2.25" or 2.5".









I don't think it will make a big difference. The 2.25" will flow more than enough for the hp requirement. You might loose a hair on the bottom and middle with the 2.5" 
I'd go with the bigger if you want more noise and smaller if you want less. It will sound faster with the 2.5" so maybe go with that


----------



## 1LOWJET_94 (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

bump for a good thread and im also thinking of this as a project. do you think we could add a reasonable price beside the parts list of each part to see roughly how much is a reasonable offer on the parts. From what im reading it seems like this is not a good set up unless your going to do a turbo or s.c? or am i wrong. My aba obd1 2.0 is in need of a rebuild and this is what im considering doing any ideas then for the motor to get a little more pull out of it? im me if you have any info thanks. also do you have to use the CIS injection or is there any way around that because from what i understand the Cis is a pain in the butt.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (1LOWJET_94)*

x2, what are all of our management options? I've never understood why you can't use the ABA management


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_x2, what are all of our management options? I've never understood why you can't use the ABA management









The 16v and 8v have completely different spark maps. I did run the ABA ECU with a nospeed chip for along time and it ran fine and very smooth. Since moving to the correct spark map the car is completely different. I’m posting 2 basic ignition maps for a 16v and 8V these are just basic ideas maybe not an exact map for your particular setup.

PS: I have a single window 16v dizzy FS if anyone needs one.










_Modified by pozer at 1:13 PM 5-6-2008_


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I don't think it will make a big difference. The 2.25" will flow more than enough for the hp requirement. You might loose a hair on the bottom and middle with the 2.5" 
I'd go with the bigger if you want more noise and smaller if you want less. It will sound faster with the 2.5" so maybe go with that









It'll be "fast" I think when done. At least, decently fast for an NA motor. 2.25" should be fine even with head work and big cams? Just trying to get all the info I can. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_
PS: I have a 4 window 16v dizzy FS if anyone needs one.

Asking how much?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Kabinotar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kabinotar* »_
Asking how much?


75.00 shipped in the US. Does not leak.
I posted wrong this is a single window dizzy converted for ABA ECU.


_Modified by pozer at 1:13 PM 5-6-2008_


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (pozer)*

Ok i ran into a probelm today. I tried to use the block off plate in the ABA block for the dizzy from the 9a 16v i have and it dosen't fit. What do i need to block the old dizzy hole?


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

re you sure it was from a 2.0L? The block off from a 1.8L 16v won't fit properly. If it's too small, my guess is that you have a 1.8L block-off.


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*

nope its stamped 2.0 right on the block its the factory 9a 16v in a 90 GLI. Its to big for the ABA block.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vtblackjetta* »_nope its stamped 2.0 right on the block its the factory 9a 16v in a 90 GLI. Its to big for the ABA block.


did you change the oil pump and im shaft along with the block off... they all have to be changed for this to work


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Greengt1)*

2.0 block i got the plug from









9A plug








ABA block








9A plug not fitting in ABA block









It looks like there is a reducer/spacer in the way. Can it removed?
















_Modified by 16vtblackjetta at 5:29 AM 5-7-2008_

_Modified by 16vtblackjetta at 5:30 AM 5-7-2008_


_Modified by 16vtblackjetta at 5:30 AM 5-7-2008_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

Whoa..


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_Whoa..









????


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

Seems weird







Can you get dims of the plug and the hole to see which is the wrong size?
Your ABA engine numbers look a bit wonky, your sure it's a real 'un?










_Modified by infront at 12:24 PM 5-7-2008_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vtblackjetta* »_
????

Lol it's just a bit... different. What do your pistons look like? Is it an early or late block? Do you know what it came out of?

P.S. Infront, can you do us a favor and edit your post to get rid of the quote? I don't mean to be an ass it's just a bit redundant .


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

I got it! there was a spacer in there anyone ever had this? I got this short block from a friend that was in a n/a corrado they put together. Maybe they were running a different dizzy or something.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

That's wild. It almost looks after-market, though. Was the engine a 16v/aba? Maybe a piece of the BBM Dizzy Gizzy or something








Can you find a production number on the engine? It didn't come out of the 'Rado originally, right?
That's really crazy. It's like it was adapted from an 8v engine or something.


_Modified by atrujillo1991 at 10:49 AM 5-7-2008_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_That's wild. It definitely looks after market, though. Was the engine a 16v/aba? Maybe a piece of the BBM Dizzy Gizzy or something








that is used when using a mk ii dizzy in an aba.


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*

No it was put in the coraddo not factory. Now i can start getting this thing back together. Thanks


----------



## BlackTie+ (Oct 17, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

That piece is the TT adapter ring that you put in a 2.0 block (ABA, 3A, 9A) to use a 1.8 factory distributor. 
You COULD use one of those along with a 1.8 16V hole plug. I hadn't said this before because I didn't want to confuse anyone to make them think you can just use the 1.8 16V peices by themselves. 
Plus to use the 1.8 16V intermediate shaft you need to clearance it for the rods of the ABA.


----------



## tumultuous101 (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mwebb95jetta)*


----------



## turoc (Mar 11, 2003)

Anyone run an aba 16v with proper pistons (compression like 11:1 or something) on cis?
Any known issues?


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (turoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turoc* »_Anyone run an aba 16v with proper pistons (compression like 11:1 or something) on cis?
Any known issues?


what would be the purpose?
do you mean by putting 13:1 pistons in an aba and mating it with a 16v head, and ending up with 11:1?


----------



## turoc (Mar 11, 2003)

This will be for a rally car and the budget is limited for this year so is down time. I blew the PL recently and would like to compete soon. Received a 9a which i was planning on rebuilding but its in poor condition. The goal is to upgrade to standalone and itbs for next year(after october). I dont want to split it open again. If i can get similar hp as the PL i ll be happy for now. Anything more is obviously a plus! 
With proper pistons i mean new custom pistons with compression ratio i can run pump gas.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (turoc)*

Back to the dyno with corrected Dwell settings. this is comparing my dyno from last year with no changes to the engine but tuning and this is the same dyno.
still 8:1 compression NA. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by pozer at 3:00 PM 5-20-2008_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (pozer)*

For that CR, THose are some impressive numbers








Megasquirt?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

Megasquirt1 v3 with E85.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (pozer)*

E85 as in the fuel?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

Yes.. its 2.80 a gallon here and the MPG loss more then out weights the price of 93octane.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (pozer)*

Hahaha ballin'!
That makes the numbers even more impressive. Props meng


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_Yes.. its 2.80 a gallon here and the MPG loss more then out weights the price of 93octane.

details on your setup (fuel system esp.) would be sweet. did you make an provisions for the extra corrosiveness of E85 (pump, lines)?
what kind of spark setup? any other details appreciated.


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (derekste)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekste* »_
details on your setup (fuel system esp.) would be sweet. did you make an provisions for the extra corrosiveness of E85 (pump, lines)?
what kind of spark setup? any other details appreciated.

URST 42lb injectors with new E85 O-rings. Im using a 1.8t fuel rail. Walbro 255 inline pump and stock intank pump. Also stock tank and lines. I have been running this for a year I did use 89 octane when I put it up or storage tho. I do plan on failures happening but Im kinda testing to see how long everything lasts. I expect the intank pump to be the first to go. I have SS lines here but not installed yet.


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*

what ignition module? are you using the 60-2 wheel in the ABA block? single coil and distributor, dual coil wasted spark, or something else? standard MS1 or MSNS-e?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (derekste)*

MS1 v3 with 16v dizzy. Im using a Bosch 124.


----------



## Vmk3W (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: (pozer)*

ok noob question here-
im planning on a '98 mk3 2.0l block with a 16v head, when i get it put together ill be swapping out my old engine and putting this in... what is a realistic time frame on this? and if i reaaaallly worked hard on it how quickly could i get this done? TIA http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

Two questions:
1) What screws are people using to attach the BBM breather block-off plate to the block? Of the 4 that hold the stock piece on there, the bottom two bottom out in the threads before they can be tightened?
2)Where can I get a 9a crank timing gear? The dealer wants $99, and worldimpex wants $75. (Who wants to make a quick $20 and sell me one?) (p/n 027105263b)


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Vmk3W)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vmk3W* »_ok noob question here-
im planning on a '98 mk3 2.0l block with a 16v head, when i get it put together ill be swapping out my old engine and putting this in... what is a realistic time frame on this? and if i reaaaallly worked hard on it how quickly could i get this done? TIA http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif 

It could easily be done in a weekend providing (a) you have all the parts and (b) you know what you're doing.
I know this doesn't help much, but it's the truth. At the same time, engine swaps aren't for the faint of heart. What are your plans for engine management, and do you realize that the compression on the above-described swap will be horribly low unless you are going forced induction.


----------



## Th3GreatOne (Aug 30, 2006)

Hey guys, been a long time since ive been here...almost lost my acount!








I've been following this thread for quite a while and starting to gather up all the piece for the puzzle and I do have a 2-3 questions that you might have an answer for me.
Depending on how much boost you want to have, piston setup is different. What is the barrier between Mild and high boost? At how much PSI do we start considering High boost?
Also, i got myself a nice little 02A transmission for my setup. What would be a good clutch flywheel setup for if im plannign to go forced induction(turbo) around 300hp with a good amount of torque.
I was thinking about a good VR6 clutch, but still im not sure about it...plus the 16v flywheel or G60...or ...dunno Im getting loss in the world of flywheels and clutches!!








thanks guys!


----------



## Vmk3W (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: (derekste)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekste* »_
It could easily be done in a weekend providing (a) you have all the parts and (b) you know what you're doing.
I know this doesn't help much, but it's the truth. At the same time, engine swaps aren't for the faint of heart. What are your plans for engine management, and do you realize that the compression on the above-described swap will be horribly low unless you are going forced induction.

Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif pretty sure i have all the parts, but also sure that this is my first time doing this. I was planning on putting in a turbo as well, low compression, high boost.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ?


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Vmk3W)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Th3GreatOne* »_Hey guys, been a long time since ive been here...almost lost my acount!








I've been following this thread for quite a while and starting to gather up all the piece for the puzzle and I do have a 2-3 questions that you might have an answer for me.
Depending on how much boost you want to have, piston setup is different. What is the barrier between Mild and high boost? At how much PSI do we start considering High boost?
Also, i got myself a nice little 02A transmission for my setup. What would be a good clutch flywheel setup for if im plannign to go forced induction(turbo) around 300hp with a good amount of torque.
I was thinking about a good VR6 clutch, but still im not sure about it...plus the 16v flywheel or G60...or ...dunno Im getting loss in the world of flywheels and clutches!!








thanks guys!


_Quote, originally posted by *Vmk3W* »_
Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif pretty sure i have all the parts, but also sure that this is my first time doing this. I was planning on putting in a turbo as well, low compression, high boost.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ?

I'll try to answer both of these in one post. ABA pistons will give _about_ an 8:1. 9a pistons will give _about_ a 9:1. Both of these are suitable CRs for FI. Personally, I probably won't run more than 15 psi on 9a pistons, not so much due to the compression ratio, but due to them being cast pistons not cut out for this kind of work. With ABA pistons, I wouldn't run more than 20psi, although there are many people who are at this level reliable.
As far as the clutch setup goes... 300hp is some serious power out of a stock 02A. There are lots of things you need to consider, like the primary purpose of the car (drag or something else), the weight of the car, and how much you can preload the clutch when (if) launching.
I'm probably going to go with a ClutchNet 4 puck sprung setup and a race spool(or welded diff) in my 02O. This should be good into the 350 range depending on which pressure plate I get.
Hope this helps, let me know if you have any followups.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (derekste)*

Haha I had custom Weisco Pistons made for me at a 9:1 CR and the car's built to run 22 lbs.








High CR+ high boost levels = DETONATION
DETONATION = DEATH
However, with GOOD tuning, proper intercooling and (not in my case but still), water-Meth, it can be done safely.
As for the transmission, your best bet is to get an up-rated differential (like a Quaife) and to go to different manufacturers websites (Like SPEC) and buy according to which of their product description matches your needs best. You'll need to get a G60 flywheel which accepts the same pressureplate/clutch disc combo as a VR would(so when you're looking at clutches, anything listed for a VR will work too.) Some 16v flywheels are for the 210mm clutches which WILL NOT work with the 02A. You need something that's 228mm.







!


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

Ok i have a question i scannned the first couple pages, The timing belt pulley on the crank do i need to use that as well from the 9A since the timing belt wider then the ABA. If it was mentioned i over looked it.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (16vtblackjetta)*

The crank pulley for the timing belt? Yes, you do. If you plan on keeping your ABA accesories, you'll need to modify your crank pulley (serpintine pulley), too.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_Haha I had custom Weisco Pistons made for me at a 9:1 CR and the car's built to run 22 lbs.








High CR+ high boost levels = DETONATION
DETONATION = DEATH







!









I know all about it!


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_The crank pulley for the timing belt? Yes, you do. If you plan on keeping your ABA accesories, you'll need to modify your crank pulley (serpintine pulley), too.

Ok i thought so i just wanted to double check. Thank you


----------



## Ruben Blades (Jan 25, 2007)

*Re: (derekste)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekste* »_
It could easily be done in a weekend providing (a) you have all the parts and (b) you know what you're doing.
I know this doesn't help much, but it's the truth. At the same time, engine swaps aren't for the faint of heart. What are your plans for engine management, and do you realize that the compression on the above-described swap will be horribly low unless you are going forced induction.

okay, I also have an ob2 2.0 and a 1.8 16v donor. Is this swap even worth doing if I'm not going to be doing FI with the CR being so low?


_Modified by Ruben Blades at 5:50 AM 6-17-2008_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (Ruben Blades)*

With the 9A pistons I'd say so.
The only thing you'll really be able to use off of the 1.8 is the head. You need the IM shaft, dizzy plug, and oil pump from a 2.0


----------



## Th3GreatOne (Aug 30, 2006)

thanks for the answer on the clutch/transmission thing. Clears out a couple things.
Im also considering going digi 1....I've seen a couple guys with this setup on digi 1 and it seems to run fine...
I also looking for megasquirt...gotta make my mind lol


_Modified by Th3GreatOne at 7:57 PM 6-19-2008_


----------



## scirocco19858v (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (Th3GreatOne)*

good day folks
I am interested in doing the aba 16v hibrid
for the longest time now i have been using an ABA bottom forged scat 
rods and forged 9:1 .40 over Wiseco pistons while using a 1.8 8v 
Bigvalve head p&p cam, springs and retainers Carburated with a .40 
Weber and direct port nitrous injection. car runs Exelent and has me 
happy but I had made a spare engine block just in case knock on 
wood!!! I have not needed it. 93 ABA .40 overbore Wiseco 9:1 pistons 
scat rods decked block 
enhanced cooling on deck ARP all arround. just no head has been 
installed. as it is a Spare racing Block.
no I have come across a donor 9A and i have sent the head for P&P 
SS valves titanium springs and retainers new lifters and turbo spec 
Cams.
I have also lightened and balanced the 9a Int. shaft
New 9a high performance Oil pump Bahn brenner
bought a new 9a Crank shaft timing sproket
and i had a Custom Short Runner Intake and Tubular Exhaust 
Manifold Done.
I have a MS2 Sys that will be managing the fuel sys
*now my main question is *can i use this spare block for this hibrid 
Convertion or what would be the sudjested set up I am lookig at aprox
30 t0 35psi with a GT40R 1600cc Presission Injectors 
Thanks in advanced http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## scirocco19858v (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (scirocco19858v)*

Bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## scirocco19858v (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (scirocco19858v)*

bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## scirocco19858v (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (scirocco19858v)*

bump anyone??


----------



## scirocco19858v (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

bump


----------



## nu2dubbing (May 6, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (scirocco19858v)*

picked this up this weekend for $175 16v head 9a, 2 16v intakes, 9a and aba pistons, aba block, oilpump oil pan, aba crank


----------



## TheGolfClub (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*

Is there anything done to this engine besides a properly running aba bottom with 16v head?
I've got a complete obd1 aba and a complete 86 Rocco 16v that needs the head rebuilt if you can see where I'm going.
I'm just trying to figure out how stock you are on that (as stock as an aba/16v can be) so that I might use your dynograph to start researching turbos.
Thanks,
Colby


----------



## TheGolfClub (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: (pozer)*

This one, forgot to hit the quote button

_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_Back to the dyno with corrected Dwell settings. this is comparing my dyno from last year with no changes to the engine but tuning and this is the same dyno.
still 8:1 compression NA. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









_Modified by pozer at 3:00 PM 5-20-2008_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (scirocco19858v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scirocco19858v* »_good day folks
I am interested in doing the aba 16v hibrid
for the longest time now i have been using an ABA bottom forged scat 
rods and forged 9:1 .40 over Wiseco pistons while using a 1.8 8v 
Bigvalve head p&p cam, springs and retainers Carburated with a .40 
Weber and direct port nitrous injection. car runs Exelent and has me 
happy but I had made a spare engine block just in case knock on 
wood!!! I have not needed it. 93 ABA .40 overbore Wiseco 9:1 pistons 
scat rods decked block 
enhanced cooling on deck ARP all arround. just no head has been 
installed. as it is a Spare racing Block.
no I have come across a donor 9A and i have sent the head for P&P 
SS valves titanium springs and retainers new lifters and turbo spec 
Cams.
I have also lightened and balanced the 9a Int. shaft
New 9a high performance Oil pump Bahn brenner
bought a new 9a Crank shaft timing sproket
and i had a Custom Short Runner Intake and Tubular Exhaust 
Manifold Done.
I have a MS2 Sys that will be managing the fuel sys
*now my main question is *can i use this spare block for this hibrid 
Convertion or what would be the sudjested set up I am lookig at aprox
30 t0 35psi with a GT40R 1600cc Presission Injectors 
Thanks in advanced http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Your post format is a bit confusing but if I understand correctly, you have an ABA bottom end with ABA rods and an ABA crank and a set of 9:1 CR pistons (for the ABA). You COULD combine a 16v head with said setup BUT your CR would be REALLY low. You'd be golden with a custom set of ABF spec pistons. I'm thinking about having a few sets made that'll yield either a 9:1 or a 9.5:1 CR with the ABA bottom end (crank, block, and rods) and the 16V head. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Blown-Jetta95 (Dec 7, 2004)

Ok so flame me if you must but I have ready through about ten pages of this post and have donw multiple searches. 
The question I have is an OBD1 ABA 8v block with 2.0l 16v pistons and a ABA head has what compression ratio? All the figures I am finding are for the 16v head with the same set up in the block.


----------



## dubluv4life (Apr 22, 2008)

If anyone is looking for a kit Bahn Brenner Motorsports has one http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...n_Kit


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (dubluv4life)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubluv4life* »_If anyone is looking for a kit Bahn Brenner Motorsports has one http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...n_Kit









if I bought this kit, all I"ll need is a head,manifolds and some sort of management ?


----------



## scirocco19858v (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

exellent ABF 9:1 hmm i like what i hear Andrew.So are theese Pistons that you are having made  Forged?what do they cost?
you think they will live up in the 30psi from a gt40r under ideal conditions?
what about the wrist pins do they fit right in with the ABA rods?


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (scirocco19858v)*

wel here i am now to throw in my little bit of confusion:
i have an obd 1 aba with wisco high compression pistons, aba rods. if i wanted to do a 16v head would the pistons be ok, and would i still need to do a 16v oil pump if i keep the aba distributor's. i under stand i'll need a chip and injectors, along with 16v crank pully and intermeident shaft pully. is this correct?








edit: sorry for spelling, spell check wont give me what i'm lookin for


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (scirocco19858v)*

Yes, they would fit the wrist-pins for the ABA rods. I'm not too sure exactly what they're going to cost as I haven't looked too too deep into having them made as I do not have the funds to buy them myself right now. If I had to guess, I'd say somewhere between $500 and $600 and they'd live up to whatever boost you could throw at them.
Pistons made for turbo-charged applications are actually composed of a different alloy than N/A pistons are composed. These pistons will basically almost be an ABA piston with less dish, and proper valve reliefs. 
If I'm havin' 'em made, they're going to be perfect!


----------



## scirocco19858v (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

that is awesome Andrew please dont forget about me whenever you get quoted for them let me know i mean who know maby eaven we can start a group buy right here? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubLuv82* »_wel here i am now to throw in my little bit of confusion:
i have an obd 1 aba with wisco high compression pistons, aba rods. if i wanted to do a 16v head would the pistons be ok, and would i still need to do a 16v oil pump if i keep the aba distributor's. i under stand i'll need a chip and injectors, along with 16v crank pully and intermeident shaft pully. is this correct?








edit: sorry for spelling, spell check wont give me what i'm lookin for









Ok so here we go...
You're pistons would yield a good CR for N/A conditions but I'd be concerned about valve clearance. 
And yes, you're going to either need:
A) A 16v (2.0 [9A]) oil pump, IM shaft, and pulley
OR
B)A BBM Dizzy Gizzy, and the modified IM gear they have. It fits the end of the ABA IM shaft yet is 6mm wider in order to accommodate the wider timing belt.
If you're staying N/A, you shouldn't need different injectors either. The ABA distributor cap won't clear the 16v intake manifold. There are distributor caps (I pulled these two from a KIA or a Sabb I believe) that DO clear the manifold apparently. They fit the ABA dizzy properly however I haven't personally checked the manifold clearance of it.


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

ya after i actually stopped to think about it, i realized why i would need the oil pump, im shaft and dis. but as far as injectors go, i already need to bring my a/f ratio up with injectors and a chip. the car is being run off aba obd1 management so i already have that figured out so long as big injectors for a 16v will work with the management. i believe a 16 head should clear due to the bigger combustion chamber. going bigger cam durations might make it a little sketchy though. any other thoughts or opinions?? i know i can be the first person with a set up like mine that wants to do a 16v


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*

If you're smart, you'll clearance them. Pistons for a higher CR are taller... why even take a chance at ruining a head and an expensive set of pistons








This entire swap, if you're good at wiring, should run OK with the original management. I have yet to finish mine due to other projects but I'll be able to say whether this is true or not by the end of the year.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubLuv82* »_ i believe a 16 head should clear due to the bigger combustion chamber.

And for the record, the combustion chamber area actually decreases with high CR pistons. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_
And for the record, the combustion chamber area actually decreases with high CR pistons. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 yes i under stand but if you compare the cc's of the aba head and the 16v head, the 16v head is almost 10cc bigger, and i know it is deeper, giving more room. only thing is my compression wont be as high, but the extra flow should make up for that


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*

What's the CR supposed to be when installed in the ABA?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_if I bought this kit (bbm 16v conversion kit) all I"ll need is a head,manifolds and some sort of management ?


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going ([email protected])*

Pretty much! Like you said, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, throttle body etc. and you'll be good!


----------



## talon223 (Mar 28, 2008)

I can't find the answer to this question:
Will CIS-E Motronic manage this even half decently?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*

Aye! What's the "etc" ?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_Pretty much! Like you said, intake manifolds, exhaust manifolds, throttle body etc. and you'll be good!

What's the "etc" ?


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going ([email protected])*

here is another question for the 16v masters. if i get a 16v head that cis, can it be converted over to regular fuel injection with a fuel rail, and injectors? or is there a newer manifold i would have to get that would be easier. i don't know the 16v motor as well as my aba. it will be run off obd1 2.0 management


_Modified by VdubLuv82 at 6:23 PM 7-7-2008_


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VdubLuv82)*



VdubLuv82 said:


> here is another question for the 16v masters. if i get a 16v head that cis, can it be converted over to regular fuel injection with a fuel rail, and injectors? or is there a newer manifold i would have to get that would be easier. i don't know the 16v motor as well as my aba. it will be run off obd1 2.0 management
> 
> All you need is a fuel pressure regulator, fuel rail, G60 injector cups and injectors. I think if you are keeping your management you can use your injectors from the 2.0 aba. Someone correct me if im wrong please. You dont need an aftermarket intake manifold unless you wanna boost and make alot of power.


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

i don't want and after market, i'm going all motor, i was thinking about the 50mm euro intake. i've always wanted one, not sure why







and as far as injectors go, i need something a little biger then the stock aba due to how lean it is already running.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VdubLuv82)*

You're going to need the proper fuel rail (from ROSS of BBM) that has extended fingers to fit between the runners of the 16V manifold. Unless you're using a short runner... then you can use a 1.8t fuel rail. If you're running lean, which confuses me because I thought you were N/A, you could still go with the ABA injectors and use an adjustable FPR.


----------



## talon223 (Mar 28, 2008)

On the subject of engine management....
My Mk2 is running CIS-E Motronic at the moment, and I'm undergoing this swap. I had a 9A in it originally, but the bottom end took a dump on me. I figured this would be a good project.
What's going to be the absolute cheapest way to get it running.....It just needs to get me to and from work for the next month, and then it's back under the knife. 
Can it run off of CIS-E Motronic? Doesn't have to be fast, just running.


_Modified by talon223 at 8:27 PM 7-7-2008_


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (talon223)*

I'm sure it could my good sir. I can't see why not but I don't know too much of said management system.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









Using an original 16v management system was what I originally planed to do but the fact that my car's a'95, makes any 16v management out-dated. The state would NOT like that for inspection.
Considering your car was originally ran off of it, though, makes it PERFECT for you!


----------



## bikerjoedub (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

I need help my new motor i built (aba 16v s/c) is leaking oil out of the oil cap and from my dist. block plate i think it is because of the lack of a breather system what do i need to do to fix this i have heard of a breather that mounts under the oil cap? or do i need to plumb a line in my block off plate and setup a pcv valve. if anyone has tips or pics it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## DutchcaribbeanGTI (Dec 7, 2000)

*Re: (bikerjoedub)*

Use a breather from the 2.0 new beetles.
Check out this tread.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3028981


----------



## V-Dublin-05 (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (DutchcaribbeanGTI)*

good thread


_Modified by V-Dublin-05 at 1:13 AM 8-7-2008_


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (V-Dublin-05)*

I printed the whole thing out and read and highlighted all the parts that were needed. I have a question tho. Im puting a turbo on my engine but insted of doidng the aba 16v head swap. Y cant i do a 1.8 16v and turbo that and drop it into the mark3 obd2? is that possible? i know i would have to lower the compression ration in the 16v motor. Is this more of a hassel or should i just do the aba 16vT


----------



## sinba (Jun 24, 2007)

ok guys i have and 84 jetta its runnin digi 1 with stage 5 chip, i got a 94 gti 2.0l block ABA with 2.o 16v head im runnin 9 pound on a k24 turbo i got bbm fuel rail and 1.8t injectors and b&m fuel pressure regulator and i got g60 tranny and my question is wats the max boost i can run on this with out blowin my motor 
THANK U


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (sinba)*

ok another good ? for ya. what about the throttle body. i'll still have the aba wiring so what do i do about the idle air control valve or the throttle position sensor? anyone running a manifold with an aba throttle body?? or know where i can get one? or what other setups are there


----------



## talon223 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubLuv82* »_ok another good ? for ya. what about the throttle body. i'll still have the aba wiring so what do i do about the idle air control valve or the throttle position sensor? anyone running a manifold with an aba throttle body?? or know where i can get one? or what other setups are there

That's been gone over and gone over....
An auto passat throttle body is a good solution


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (talon223)*

noticed something to add to the list? head studs? I'm thinking aba..


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubLuv82* »_noticed something to add to the list? head studs? I'm thinking aba..
nope, 16v. they have to match the head.


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_nope, 16v. they have to match the head.
 nice, that would have sucked lol. i didn't see that in the part list on the first page though
and i got page 45!! a pic of the car all this is being asked for....










_Modified by VdubLuv82 at 9:32 PM 7-19-2008_


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*

ok now i'm a little confused. i have alll aba 2.0 management and wiring. what dis. block off will i need, the one for the 16v head or the one for the aba???
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...Plate
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...L_16V
if i get the one for the 16v standalone, then all i should need to do is get the intermediate shaft sprocket rite??


_Modified by VdubLuv82 at 6:10 PM 7-22-2008_


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

*FV-QR*

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...Plate


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tauntedmonster)*

ok thanks thats what i though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif now i wont have to swap the intermediate shaft and stuf rite??


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

*FV-QR*

sorry, that was the wrong link. i didn't see a blockoff for the ABA dizzy on there, a spare 16v shortblock should come with one. Even if you do find an ABA dizzy blockoff, you'll still need to swap the int. shaft and oil pump
if you don't want to swap the oil pump or int. shaft, use this:
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...L_16V


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tauntedmonster)*

just out of curiosity, why would i not be able to use the aba distributor, and what am i going to have to do witht he signal wire that goes to it? would i be better off getting the block off plug for the head and getting a 2.0 aba 16v int. shaft pulley?? it is a full obd 1 aba swap rite now, computer, harness, fuse block ect.
this is what i was thinking...
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...=1762
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...Plate
it seems to make more since, and keep my aba stuff. this is where i'm getting a little confused. and sorry for being a pain in the ass










_Modified by VdubLuv82 at 6:14 PM 7-23-2008_


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubLuv82)*

never mind, figured it out. 16v dist. stays on the head in the swap, correct? and i know the difference between them now too


----------



## getfocked (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubLuv82)*

anyone know if theres a clearence issue with the hood aba16v 50mm euro intake in scirocco if so how much an should the ribs of the hood be cut thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubLuv82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubLuv82* »_never mind, figured it out. 16v dist. stays on the head in the swap, correct? and i know the difference between them now too

yes. you can use th 16v distributor, but you would need to swap the guts from the ABA into the 16v so you have a one window dizzy instead of 4. However, if you are doing a standalone setup then it doesn't matter as you can configure for the 4 window dizzy.


----------



## mk1guy (Jan 28, 2007)

ive got a bunch of stuff to do this swap im me if you have parts you need and maybe i can help. ive sold my bbm gizzy but have most everything else.


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Great Info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## getfocked (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (mocas)*

hello hood clearance aba16v scirocco mk2


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (getfocked)*


_Quote, originally posted by *getfocked* »_hello hood clearance aba16v scirocco mk2

Dude thats no way to ask for help. Ill give you an answer if it hits figure something out!


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vtblackjetta* »_
Dude thats no way to ask for help. Ill give you an answer if it hits figure something out!








 lol thats good


----------



## getfocked (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VdubLuv82)*

dude thanks dude no need to be mean dude


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (getfocked)*

you just got to ask nicely and be polite. if your like that on vortex, some one is guna say something, that just the way it works around here. as for the ?, you might be better off asking in the scirocco forum, some one might know a little more http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by VdubLuv82 at 12:26 PM 7-30-2008_


----------



## getfocked (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VdubLuv82)*

I asked nice the first time an no reply


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (getfocked)*


_Quote, originally posted by *getfocked* »_I asked nice the first time an no reply 
 wasn't anyone around that knew, sorry dude


----------



## getfocked (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VdubLuv82)*

cool beans


----------



## swamper8 (Jul 4, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (getfocked)*

Can I get some thoughts on whether this motor would be a good donor for a 16V head and all the other misc. parts? (intermediate shaft, timing components etc....)
1992 VW PASSAT 2.0L
According to my research, 1990-1993 Passats had 2.0L 16V motors? I have been trying to figure out what the best deal would be to get my 16V build going. I have been looking at the BBM conversion kit, but would also still need to buy a seperate head. So I'm thinking about buying a whole motor and getting all the parts I need off of it. Seems like it'd be cheaper in the long run......


_Modified by swamper8 at 9:13 AM 8-11-2008_


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (swamper8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *swamper8* »_Can I get some thoughts on whether this motor would be a good donor for a 16V head and all the other misc. parts? (intermediate shaft, timing components etc....)
1992 VW PASSAT 2.0L
According to my research, 1990-1993 Passats had 2.0L 16V motors? I have been trying to figure out what the best deal would be to get my 16V build going. I have been looking at the BBM conversion kit, but would also still need to buy a seperate head. So I'm thinking about buying a whole motor and getting all the parts I need off of it. Seems like it'd be cheaper in the long run......

_Modified by swamper8 at 9:13 AM 8-11-2008_

Yes that will work and will be cheaper in the end most likely.


----------



## swamper8 (Jul 4, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

Cool, are there better year engines to get a head off of or are all 2.0 16V heads created equal? The motor will be turbo charged. I don't mind working the head over. (aftermarket cams, springs etc.)
Couple Questions:
I should be able to use the intermediate shaft, oil pump, int. shaft drive gear and dist. off this engine right?
And to the best of my reading, the only mod I would need to make to get this to work with my 97' obdII engine management system would be to swap the guts of my current dist. (1 window) over the the 16V distributor. (4 window?)
Also would appreciate feedback on how to deal with my secondary air injection system on my car. Is there provision on the 16V head to keep this functional or will I have to code it out with VAG-COM?


_Modified by swamper8 at 9:33 AM 8-11-2008_


----------



## vdubmk2vr (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Ok, I'm a little confused...
I have a complete 9A 16V that I am doing ITB's on. Will I gain anything swapping to an ABA block or should I just leave it as is?
Thanks


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (swamper8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *swamper8* »_Cool, are there better year engines to get a head off of or are all 2.0 16V heads created equal? The motor will be turbo charged. I don't mind working the head over. (aftermarket cams, springs etc.)
Couple Questions:
I should be able to use the intermediate shaft, oil pump, int. shaft drive gear and dist. off this engine right?
And to the best of my reading, the only mod I would need to make to get this to work with my 97' obdII engine management system would be to swap the guts of my current dist. (1 window) over the the 16V distributor. (4 window?)
Also would appreciate feedback on how to deal with my secondary air injection system on my car. Is there provision on the 16V head to keep this functional or will I have to code it out with VAG-COM?

_Modified by swamper8 at 9:33 AM 8-11-2008_

You can use everything from any 2.0 9A 16V. And yes to the distribtor question, i am not sure about the SAI though hopefully someone will chime in with an answer for you.


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vdubmk2vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubmk2vr* »_Ok, I'm a little confused...
I have a complete 9A 16V that I am doing ITB's on. Will I gain anything swapping to an ABA block or should I just leave it as is?
Thanks

No not unless you change the pistons in the ABA block, i would just stick with the 9A setup you have its not a big enough gain to spend that kinda money.


----------



## vdubmk2vr (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (16vtblackjetta)*

Thanks, that makes my project a lot easier and cheaper.


----------



## steve12345 (Jan 8, 2006)

I've seen this number disputed a lot here, so I measured everything while I have the engine apart.
Here is the Compression Ratio calculated for an ABA/9A Hybrid with 9A pistons on re-bushed ABA rods. The calculator is found here:
http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/...shtml
I came up with 9.00:1
All values are measured except the piston dish volume which is the net difference of the raised quench area and the valve reliefs. 
The raised quench area is a few thousandths on one side and about 15 thousandths on the edge of the piston. I calculated the area of the segment and multiplied by the average height and it was less than .2cc. I guestimated the volume of the valve reliefs to be about 1cc each. Based on that, I just used 2cc for the total dish volume of the 9A piston. 
The head is a 9A head that has been milled very slightly to flatten it. Using a burette, it measured 44.5cc with a NGK BKR7E plug in it.
Head gasket is Victor Reinz MLS gasket. Same as OEM ABA.
Here are the numbers:









Edit: On a side note, the quench height is about 0.102 inch. In other words no real quench effect. .040 is preferred .070 is the point beyond which there is little quench effect.


_Modified by steve12345 at 10:59 PM 8-13-2008_


----------



## vdubmk2vr (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (steve12345)*

Nice.


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds*

MKII (1.8 or 2.0) vs Scirocco Intake Manifolds
The only difference between the two is that the rocco has the TB on the driverside (better for FI pipe routing)and the MKII has the TB on the passenger side correct?
Advantages / Disadvantages of either?


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwjettalikewhoa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwjettalikewhoa* »_
MKII (1.8 or 2.0) vs Scirocco Intake Manifolds
The only difference between the two is that the rocco has the TB on the driverside (better for FI pipe routing)and the MKII has the TB on the passenger side correct?
Advantages / Disadvantages of either?

Pretty much the same, just makes intercooler piping easier to route.


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (16vtblackjetta)*

word, staying NA, so no problems there, does the BBM T-Body Adaptor still work?


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwjettalikewhoa)*

i dont think i understand what your asking, you would only need that if you run the scirocco manifold because the throttle body is really close to the brake resvoir.


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_
You can use the A2 intake (pass side TB), most people use the rocco one (drivers side TB) when going turbo or supercharged because it is easier to route intercooler piping with it.

So does anyone know if the BBM TB adapter works on the MKII manifold with the TB on the passengerside, or do you have to run the rocco mani with the driverside TB?
IM OBDII so using a auto G60 or passat TB is a no-go


----------



## tauntedmonster (Feb 6, 2006)

*FV-QR*

call them.
I did when i was thinking about this swap last summer and john was very helpful over the phone


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwjettalikewhoa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwjettalikewhoa* »_

So does anyone know if the BBM TB adapter works on the MKII manifold with the TB on the passengerside, or do you have to run the rocco mani with the driverside TB?
IM OBDII so using a auto G60 or passat TB is a no-go

It says right on there site for the scirocco intake manifold.


----------



## swamper8 (Jul 4, 2007)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (16vtblackjetta)*

I guess the real question is does the MKII upper mani have the same throttle body port as the rocco. The 90 degree jog does do the trick to avoid the master cylinder. If I remember correctly, a MKII upper mani (pass. side inlet) kind of has the hole in the mani on a 45 degree angle toward the firewall. ( http://i13.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/04/ec/a305_1.JPG )So if the 90 degree adapter does bolt to the upper mani it would result in a inlet that's pointed 45 degrees toward the front instead. I think that would be the better choice since the feed from your intercooler will be coming from the front. In either case I think you'll want to use the 90 bend, it's just a matter of will it bolt to the MKII upper manifold.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (swamper8)*

it will bolt up fine, TBs interchange. I would be concerned the radius would put it right into the strut tower. maybe John will chime in or someone that has one could try it.


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwpat)*

I emailed BBM and their response was 

_Quote, originally posted by *bbm* »_this part is only for use with the Scirocco intake manifold.

but im wondering if they are just saying that haha, i would really like to use a MKII Manifold and get the intake away from the center of the engine.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwjettalikewhoa)*

you can get a better flowing (than Mk II) inlet manifold (ABF) that your TB will bolt to for not too much more than the adapter.


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwpat)*

poked around the fourtitude forums and it looks like you can use the ABA or OBDII VR TB on the ABF intake.
good thread on the ABF head:
http://forums.fourtitude.com/z...24097
Now the 1.8t fuel rail, will that work with the ABF manifold with no modification?


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwjettalikewhoa)*

Don't think so. The 1.8t doesn't have the "long fingers" needed. I think 1.8t fuel rails and spacers are ideal in this application. As long as they're properly engineered


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (atrujillo1991)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atrujillo1991* »_Don't think so. The 1.8t doesn't have the "long fingers" needed. I think 1.8t fuel rails and spacers are ideal in this application. As long as they're properly engineered








The ABF manifold actually needs short fingers to fit under, that is why the BBM, Ross, etc. do not work.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3121705


_Modified by vwpat at 8:37 AM 8-20-2008_


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwpat)*

well after much research i gave up on the ABF haha
just picked up a scirocco 50mm euro intake, should help with the higher RPM's where the 2.0 tends to die, and since the 2.0 it a torquey motor im not worried about the low end torque loss that some people say make it not worth it. 
now to find a P&P head and cams

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## swamper8 (Jul 4, 2007)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (vwjettalikewhoa)*

Got a pic and/or source for the euro intake? I've never seen one and can't find one on the internet. Must not be using the right search terms


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (swamper8)*

search ABF. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3888661 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3937521


----------



## xjewx24x (Aug 4, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

So now that ive read thorugh this.. my brain hurts. and im completely confused as to what i need to do this on my mk3. can someone tell me what id need to just run a n/a setup. this is my daily for now so im not looking to go too crazy yet. a PM would be great so as to not clutter up the thread anymore then it already is


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (xjewx24x)*

Anyone here think 12.4:1 is too high on 93 with 034efi? Or would it just take a good tune and make cam choice that much more critical?


----------



## turoc (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (VWn00b)*

Anything above 11:1 would be pushing it. You might get away with 11.5 but thats about it. And soon with the way things are goin all of the country will have oxygenated 91 or so the highest octane....


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (turoc)*

I know a few guys running 12:1 on 93...so I think I might be ok with that if it gets tuned right.
There is an E85 station not too far from me. I could always go that route.


----------



## screech.0 (Apr 2, 2008)

I was trying to find out what ABA block I have, I saw a forum on here about crank id. but can't find it.


----------



## Th3GreatOne (Aug 30, 2006)

Need you input on this guys. Just can't make my mind between two CR.. My two choice are 8.5:1 and 9:1
Now I've read so many thread about it and both seems to have their good and their bad. 9:1 says to be more responsive on a low non boost run...wich makes sense, but 8.5:1 will be able to take more boost and more power. I've aseen someone saying that 9:1 more for 200 ish HP and 8.5:1 for 300-350hp. Now I know some of you guys run over 20psi on 9:1...I want to run soemthing around 20..at least 15-20psi.
Any preference for one or another..and why? Ay tips..
btw internals are going to be forged...thatwhys im wondering what pisotn should I have done...8.5 or 9!!!
Thanks


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (Th3GreatOne)*

With a way to properly manage fuel, apyrometer, and wide band, one can yeild endless possibilities.
I plan on the same. Forged internals and 23lbs. boost. 9:1 CR


----------



## Th3GreatOne (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

what amount of hp/torque are you looking for with that kind of boost?


----------



## talon223 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (Th3GreatOne)*

What is the difference in aftermarket forged internals and the forged ones in the OBD1 blocks...
I was under the assumption that it already HAD forged internals


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (talon223)*

I'm looking for upwards of 450. 
The two forged components (in the OBDI ABA blocks) are the rods and crank. Pistons are not.


----------



## talon223 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

thanks for clearing that up for me...I had no idea.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (talon223)*

Any time, sir! Now sell me those D&W's!!!


----------



## michaelss (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

can this be done to OBD2? If so would I have to make any changes?


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (michaelss)*

it can be done with obd2,when I did it it was a pain to get it code free long enough for inspection,but with better chip tunes these days I would assume it to be a spot easier








btw,just bought a A4 so I have quite a bit of the bbm swap stuff and 16vt things available if anyone is interested.Doubt I'll get to swap it into my mk2 and the mk3 is going back to stock status










_Modified by not SoQuick at 12:15 PM 8-27-2008_


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (michaelss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *michaelss* »_can this be done to OBD2? If so would I have to make any changes?

Single window Dizzy conversion and the rest is bolt-on. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 95golf10990 (Apr 30, 2008)

im so confused about the pulley set up. can i use the 16v crank pulley and mk3 accessory pulleys? or do i need all 16v accessories?? id like to keep the mk stuff if i can and just run the 16v cam and crank pulleys. or do i need a 16v pulley set and change all of them?


----------



## polskipolak (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (95golf10990)*

Im interested in doing an ABA 16V N/A build. Ive spent some time and have read most of this thread, but I dont remember reading anything about this:
I am wondering if anyone knows what compression ratio would be for
6) Stroker----------------------------------9A Pistons/TDI Crank
If that wont be good for N/A, what combo would be best? I also read somewhere that a thinner headgasket can be used to raise the compression? anyone know anything about that?
Or am I better off just saving up for ABF pistons 
OR
Is this totally not worth it and I should just stick with a 2.0L 16V 9A bottom end?
Thanks!


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (95golf10990)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95golf10990* »_im so confused about the pulley set up. can i use the 16v crank pulley and mk3 accessory pulleys? or do i need all 16v accessories?? id like to keep the mk stuff if i can and just run the 16v cam and crank pulleys. or do i need a 16v pulley set and change all of them?

pretty much all your questions are answered on page 1. you can run either setup but you need to mill the aba pulley if you use that setup.


----------



## 95golf10990 (Apr 30, 2008)

thanks so i can use just a 16v crank and cam pully and leave the others alone? which one needs to be milled and how much has to be taken off, im sure someone has a spec on that seeing as im not the first person to do this


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (95golf10990)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95golf10990* »_thanks so i can use just a 16v crank and cam pully and leave the others alone? which one needs to be milled and how much has to be taken off, im sure someone has a spec on that seeing as im not the first person to do this

You are confusing yourself with pulleys. you use the crank and intermidate shaft timing gear pulleys from a 2.0 9A because of the wider timing belt. For your accessory's you can run ABA crank pulley milled down or buy one already done from bahn brenner or someone on here. What are tryin to build this setup for? does your car already have a ABA engine in it?


_Modified by 16vtblackjetta at 12:22 PM 8-29-2008_


----------



## 95golf10990 (Apr 30, 2008)

yes its an 8v, if i were ganna go through the trouble of a swap i wouldn't be swapping a 2.0 in. just trying to get a bit more power, its getting turbo to so it will work well with the low compression. so you do need to change the intermediate shaft? does that involve pulling the engine because its too long to pull out other wise?


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (95golf10990)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95golf10990* »_yes its an 8v, if i were ganna go through the trouble of a swap i wouldn't be swapping a 2.0 in. just trying to get a bit more power, its getting turbo to so it will work well with the low compression. so you do need to change the intermediate shaft? does that involve pulling the engine because its too long to pull out other wise?

Yes you would have to pull the engine to change the shaft, Or you could buy the dizzy gizzy setup from BahnBrenner.com in the hybrid section. Just read as much as you can on it, It's not that hard of a engine setup to build it's just there are so many combinations for this build. Figure out what setup suits you best and go for it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 95golf10990 (Apr 30, 2008)

thanks. you can also lower the passengers side of the engine by removong the crossmember and it will lower enough to pull the shaft out. 
another question if i mill the head down to get a higher compression than 8 to 1 without changing the internals will i have and clearance issues with anything also will it throw off the timing? il have to retard everything right?


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (95golf10990)*

hey will the gruvenparts crank pulley work with this set up?
i feel like i read somewhere in the 45 pages that you had to use the 16v, so if the gruven one is designed for the ABA belt then it wouldn't work.. right?


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (vwjettalikewhoa)*

from what i'm getting out of the crank thing, you need the gear on the crank from 1.8t, and not sure about what pulley to run. all i have is a water pump and alternator though


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*

You guys really need to read threw the thread.


----------



## VdubLuv82 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (16vtblackjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vtblackjetta* »_You guys really need to read threw the thread.
 defiantly have, just want to double check and see if some one else knows anything that might not have been posted


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (VdubLuv82)*

its cool but it is answered more then one time.


----------



## Golf-NessMk2Vr (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (16vtblackjetta)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Bump, for this thread!!! What up Dubberz, New to the 16V scene, I'm a former VR guy, so this is going to help out with my project this winter/spring!!! thanks for all the info...Dupreezy


----------



## Th3GreatOne (Aug 30, 2006)

Guys...what kind of exaust line would you gon on this setup with turbo? 2 inch .5 or 3 inch. I want something that will flow but will not need ear plugs...if you know what I mean







Ive seen alot on 3 inches...but read some stuff that this was too big...


----------



## steve12345 (Jan 8, 2006)

Depends on HP goals. 300 whp is no problem with 2.5" if it's mandrel bent and you have good cat/muffler(s). The cat and mufflers are a bigger restriction than the pipes.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (steve12345)*

turbo cars are quieter than na cars from the jump... sound also depends on resonators and mufflers


----------



## Th3GreatOne (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: (steve12345)*

I am actually going for 300-350 hp. Line going to be in Stainless. As for the muffler, not sure what to pick yet...looked at many models...but some are not in SS, or some are straight through wich scare me a bit. A friend of mine had one on his NA 16V and we could ear him 3 miles away!!
I didn't know that turboed car were quieter than NA one's...Any reason for that?


----------



## steve12345 (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: (Th3GreatOne)*

When the exhaust on a turbo car goes through the turbine it gets quieter. Using two different length straight through resonators will help a lot and not reduce flow much.


----------



## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: (steve12345)*

for 300-350 you'll need a 3" exhaust. the amount of extra pressure you need to run to get those numbers with a choking 2.5" exhaust is silly.
use a nice long resonator and a flow-through muffler and you'll be just fine.
some turbochargers have the phrase " certified muffler" cast right into the inlet housing!!!


----------



## mk2jerm (Jul 18, 2007)

*Re: (MA_XXX)*

whats the exact length difference between the 9a rods and aba rods?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (mk2jerm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2jerm* »_whats the exact length difference between the 9a rods and aba rods?
15mm, 159 vs. 144


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

i have wossner16v ABF Turbo, Forged Piston set, 8.0:1CR, 92.8mm stroke, 159mm rod length. 21mm pin. With low friction skirt coating.and wossner connecting rods For the 2L (ABF) 16v and 2L (ABA) 8v, these 159mm long rods are made in Germany. They feature a 21mm pin bore and ARP bolts. Sold in sets of 4. 532g. with these put into my aba block and a 16v head will i run into any problems and what pulleys will i need to change to mate the two i have been reading threw the forums but i am lost on all this for some reason i am slightly hard at learning it seems lol any help would be greeeeeeatly appreaciated thnx in adv


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (8vmonster)*

if they are ABF pistons you should result in the correct compression that you purchased 8:1 you need to put a 16v crank pulley and intermediate shaft in the aba block. along with oil pump and oil pump drive gear. if you want to go serp you need to shave to fit.


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

ty you just saved me like 800$ lol i love you man *sniffles*


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

would using aba /aeg pistons hit the valves? do they need to be notched or are they ok to use as is?


----------



## TheRealEddie (May 8, 2006)

*Throttle Bodies*

Hi everyone,
I've read through the thread and did not find a justification for the use of a G60 or 16v Automatic Throttle Body? Can anyone explain the rationale?
I am considering the NA with ABF pistons for a conversion for my mk2 CIS-E setup. Is there an issue with the throttlebody hitting the rain tray? Is it not possible to use a CIS-E 16v throttle body?
thanks for any info.
-e


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Throttle Bodies (TheRealEddie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheRealEddie* »_Hi everyone,
I've read through the thread and did not find a justification for the use of a G60 or 16v Automatic Throttle Body? Can anyone explain the rationale?
I am considering the NA with ABF pistons for a conversion for my mk2 CIS-E setup. Is there an issue with the throttlebody hitting the rain tray? Is it not possible to use a CIS-E 16v throttle body?
thanks for any info.
-e

you hit the nail on the head, there is no rationale. stick with a stock 16v t-body on a cis.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_would using aba /aeg pistons hit the valves? do they need to be notched or are they ok to use as is?

Unless you really know the history of your parts, anytime your doing one of these creations you should check the valve to piston clearance. Many used 16v heads and even engines have been shaved or decked. Nothing like play do or a frozen tootsie roll squished down and measured when turned over to verify valve to piston clearance.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

thanks jbetz


----------



## RonWhite30311 (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

I have a question that might be obtuse to some of you chaps...
Here goes...
I was considering this ABA/16v (Turbo or SC) in a Mk2 or Mk3 even... 
But... As I perused the Mk2 & Mk3 1.8T swap forums everybody wants a G60 or the actual Mk4 tranny to get the horsepower to the ground...BUT-T-T-T... a G60 Tranny is hard to come by nowadays... 
SOOOOOO!
What would be the major issues with doing the ABA/16vT in a Mk2 or Mk3 and using a Mk4 tranny since the damned thing is so good for most boost applications. If a 20v engine will hook up to a Mk2 gearbox and be enough to make the car run OKAY, but not as efficient..., would a "built from hell" ABA/16v run just as efficient with a Mk4 tranny? The reason I am asking is because I want a "period correct" look in the swap... I want it to look like the 16v the car came with, but also be able to lay the power down without the fear of blowing up a transmission, snapping drive axles, winding up way too high in 4th and 5th gears etc... Even 6th if I can get a 20th, GLI, or 337 tranny??? Supposedly the 16v/ABA is bulletproof, but we all know the 16v tranny in any form is... 
NOT!!!
All you experts... Whatcha got???



_Modified by RonWhite30311 at 11:36 AM 10-14-2008_


----------



## TheRealEddie (May 8, 2006)

*Re: Throttle Bodies (JBETZ)*

thanks Jbetz (and vwpat) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: Throttle Bodies (TheRealEddie)*

mk4 trans is essentially the same thing. you need the g60 ear tran bracket and need to get 100mm cups for it. you can use 02J shifter or g60 with corrado/mk3/passat shifter box. a 6 speed is more involved. custom brackets, custom axles...etc/


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Throttle Bodies (bonesaw)*

Just got my head back for my ABA 16v... just need to bolt her on... really with the 9A parts its a total snap... at least unless I run into a hiccup...


----------



## TheRealEddie (May 8, 2006)

*Re: Throttle Bodies (Peter Tong)*

hey Peter,
What head gasket are you running and do you expect to have to remove the alignment pin in the block to get the head to fit?
All,
Theres three bits of info I'm trying to track down: 
1) Do the 9A head and ABA block line up correctly so that the oil and coolant passages line up perfectly? 
2) What is the preferred head gasket for the 9A head, aba block, and ABF pistons (I'm considering a 10.5 CR NA setup)? 
Clearly the head gasket has to satisfy two conditions:
a) Alignment: It must allow the free flow of oil/coolant between the head and the block and thus it can't block the passages and it should seal such that adjacent passages don't leak into each other.
b) Thickness: The thickness will effect my compression ratio and valve to piston clearance. For an ABA block with a 9A head and ABF pistons, is the ABF head gasket the way to go? I see people recommending ABA head gaskets but isn't that too thick? I've read of people removing layers from the head gasket but I'd rather not screw with the head gasket







.
3) What sort of modifications will be expected to do to the head gasket and/or the block to fit the 9A head on? 
I've read some procedures that reference an alignment pin/dowel that needs to be removed to fit the 9A head onto the ABA block. However, that info seems not to show up too often so I was curious in what specific circumstances that needs to happen. Also, I've seen reports of people opening up the holes in the head gasket. This goes back to my 9A head to ABA block coolant/oil passage alignment question.
thanks!!
eddie http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by TheRealEddie at 1:26 PM 10-15-2008_


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Throttle Bodies (TheRealEddie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheRealEddie* »_
What head gasket are you running and do you expect to have to remove the alignment pin in the block to get the head to fit?
All,
Theres three bits of info I'm trying to track down: 
1) Do the 9A head and ABA block line up correctly so that the oil and coolant passages line up perfectly? 
2) What is the preferred head gasket for the 9A head, aba block, and ABF pistons (I'm considering a 10.5 CR NA setup)? 


Aba with 16v head means you have to knock the driverside (right if looking at the engine from the front) alighnment pin out with a hammer and punch!
1. all passages and holes line up perfectly between the two different engines....
2.aba headgasket ftw


----------



## ttocsybles (Sep 7, 2006)

anyone looking for a 16V head?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4079450


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

the block is done being fited with wossner abf 8:1 forged pistons and forged rods

the head is just a fit test as it hasnt received cams or valve train yet

and i roled her outside for a bit of fresh air..that and the shop was a mess










_Modified by 8vmonster at 1:54 PM 10-22-2008_


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

i am using the 1.8 16v im shaft in my aba block along with wossner forged low comp abf pistons and rods, and my concern is relating to the #4 rod you say it wont clear the 1.8 16v im shaft? i am out of country is why i am asking any feed back would be appreciated ty


----------



## deepgrooves74 (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: (8vmonster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8vmonster* »_i am using the 1.8 16v im shaft in my aba block along with wossner forged low comp abf pistons and rods, and my concern is relating to the #4 rod you say it wont clear the 1.8 16v im shaft? i am out of country is why i am asking any feed back would be appreciated ty

I have not done my motor yet since I am currently working on my GTD Rabbit, and I havn't had the chance, but the 9A int shaft apparently clears, and I am assuming that you may be able to have yours machined to fit as well...
I have both a 1.8 long block, 9A long block, and an ABA short...
Chime in anyone...
CJ
ps- Here's my build thread - GTD
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4056111


_Modified by deepgrooves74 at 8:34 AM 10-27-2008_


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

does any one have a diy or photo walk through of how to connect digi 1 from a corrado to the aba 16v?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (8vmonster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8vmonster* »_does any one have a diy or photo walk through of how to connect digi 1 from a corrado to the aba 16v?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1305329


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re*

Hey i was talking to someone in this thread that had the BBM TB adapter FS but i lost the IM, if this is you, shoot me a PM i need it still TIA
oh and ported 2.0 16v head fun:


----------



## Rick Hunter (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (16vtblackjetta)*

Hello, i have a 1.8 PG block from a G60 corrado and will like to put on a 16v head, whats need it to do this conversion ? and in the future ill be interested in running a turbo on it too, any advice ?
Would the g60 pistons work ? or do i need the 16v pistons ? cheers.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: MKII vs Scirocco Manifolds (Rick Hunter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rick Hunter* »_Hello, i have a 1.8 PG block from a G60 corrado and will like to put on a 16v head, whats need it to do this conversion ? and in the future ill be interested in running a turbo on it too, any advice ?
Would the g60 pistons work ? or do i need the 16v pistons ? cheers.

To do this correctly, you will need custom G6016V low compression pistons. We make these and stock them. The stock G60 pistons will not work. The 16V pistons will not work. I believe you could grab rods and 16V pistons from the 1.8L 16V If you are planning to run boost this is not a great option. You could run low boost with a spacer head gasket installed, we also make these. You will also need the oil pump, intermediate shaft, dizzy, dizzy hole plug for the block, the timing gears, crank pulley ours or a modified ABA, header or exhaust manifold and an intake manifold. That's the bulk of it.


----------



## DutchcaribbeanGTI (Dec 7, 2000)

Researching my aba/16v built i found this page : http://www.daham.org/16vt/technical/vw16vt/ 
As I want to rebuilt my 16v head I read that the abf valve guides are shorter








Dimension are : 6.8mm inner diameter, 12mm outside diameter and 35mm length
They also mention that the newer model lifters weight less that the stock PL/KR lifters.
Partnumber: 050 109 309 H, which according to my etka is replaced by 050 109 309 J
I would like to know if: 1. these parts fit our PL/KR head, 2. these parts would be of any improvement.


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DutchcaribbeanGTI)*

the lightweight MKIV lifters work.


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DutchcaribbeanGTI)*

alot of the length has do do with whether they are OE or aftermarket too. aftermarket may be $2-3 a guide where the OE ones are $30+ a guide.


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (bonesaw)*

If anyone can shed any light it'd be much appreciated








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4097484


----------



## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

In the spirit of not cluttering this bad boy up any more than it already is, any help would be terrific!!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4122465


----------



## Ragin GTI (Nov 23, 2001)

What exhaust setups are you guys using for a Mk 3 chassis? 16v exhaust manifold with an ABA downpipe? Does somebody make headers that fit? Sourcing an ABF exhaust manifold and downpipe from across the pond? Thanks for any info!!


----------



## d1rtyj4k3 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: (Ragin GTI)*

if i keep the aba pistons what cr would that give me?
i'm only trying to go n/a and maybe a turbo someday, so i'm not realy interested in putting the high compresson pistons i just have 2 complete 16v's laying around and i'm bored so i want to do this......so i am just gonna run the 16v head with like a 268cam and some other small thinks


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (Ragin GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ragin GTI* »_ 16v exhaust manifold with an ABA downpipe?

bingo, although i picked up an autotech 16v header on the cheap so im gonna see if it fits ok


----------



## d1rtyj4k3 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: (vwjettalikewhoa)*

?


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (d1rtyj4k3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *d1rtyj4k3* »_if i keep the aba pistons what cr would that give me?
i'm only trying to go n/a and maybe a turbo someday, so i'm not realy interested in putting the high compresson pistons i just have 2 complete 16v's laying around and i'm bored so i want to do this......so i am just gonna run the 16v head with like a 268cam and some other small thinks 

READ the thread


----------



## d1rtyj4k3 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

theres almost 50 pages


----------



## atrujillo1991 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (d1rtyj4k3)*

Of people asking the SAME questions lol.
Page through it. it won't hurt considering al you'll do is learn a bit more...


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: (atrujillo1991)*

so i have everything for this build except the the serpentine belt and 153 tooth abf belt which i'm picking up friday. i should be getting my crank pulley machined down 5.9 mm in the next couple of days and my alternator and water pump pulley should be showing any day soon. after that it's time for assembly. i have the obd1 aba block bored out to 83.5 and supertech 16v pistons (forged) rebushed onmy aba rods to go in this. block is decked 1mm. all new components and i have a never installed/brand new 1800 head with new springs, supertech exhaust valves with stock intake valves, light port job. i should be getting 11:1 compresstion when all is said and done. 
the one thing i do not know with any certainty: will this set-up work with the stock CIS from an 84 Jetta GLI? (current daily driver) this is what i've planned and i can't find any clear information on if this'll work or not... the one thing i'm worried about!


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (vwjettalikewhoa)*

something i had not considered until right now:
whats everyone doing for their air box/intake on these? just an elbow over to the battery with a cone filter?


----------



## vwtuner86 (Nov 2, 2006)

thanks starting on it this weekend


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: (vwtuner86)*

Gotta quick question, for an ABA 16V with the TD 95.5mm crank you still use all the 16v stuff like oil pump, crank pulley intermediat shaft right?


----------



## Junkyardrabbit (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: (mocas)*

I know the oil pumps are different, but aren't the rest of the following components the same between 2.0 and 1.8? On the first page, can originator update which components can be 1.8 16v? Could be helpful to parts hoarders. Please correct if there are errors:
Idler/Tensioner Pulley: 2.0L16 or 1.8 16v 
Oil Pump: MUST BE 2.0 16v
Oil Pump Drive: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v 
Water Pump: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v 
Water Pump Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v 
Crank Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v 
Alternator: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v 
Alternator Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v 
Alternator Belt: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v 
Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (Junkyardrabbit)*

Idler/Tensioner Pulley: 2.0L16 or 1.8 16v but you really should be buying a new one
Oil Pump: MUST BE 2.0 16v
Oil Pump Drive: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v must go with approprite int shaft. the gear is alot smaller for a 1.8 16v
Water Pump: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or ABA
Water Pump Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or ABA or vr6 wapter pump if you want serp setup
Crank Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or shaved ABA 
Alternator: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or ABA
Alternator Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or ABA
Alternator Belt: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or serp belt
Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (bonesaw)*

dont forget crank gear... thats the same on 1.8 or 2.0 16v...


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (codyo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *codyo* »_ the one thing i do not know with any certainty: will this set-up work with the stock CIS from an 84 Jetta GLI? (current daily driver) this is what i've planned and i can't find any clear information on if this'll work or not... the one thing i'm worried about!









I dont think that would be a good idea...... you need alot more fuel...


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

even tho this baby is getting pretty long i still think it is a really nice thread, great knowledge info in here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Happy New Years Peoples


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

If he is running CIS-Lambda then all he needs to do it swap two injection lines, and replace his existing flow meter and fuel distributor with one from a Volvo 240 turbo that is in good shape... no more fueling problems. Those typically flow 300cc's per injector per minute... plenty for a naturally aspirated setup...

_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_
I dont think that would be a good idea...... you need alot more fuel...


----------



## kompressorgolf (Dec 6, 2005)

Anyone know the part number or where i can finda 2.0 16v dist. hole cover the part number in etka is fowl. or the oe from techtonics, i cant find it on the website


----------



## EyeDoughnutNo (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

I may be doing the 16v swap on my ABA mk2.
This is a good information hub. Keep up the good work, guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (kompressorgolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kompressorgolf* »_Anyone know the part number or where i can finda 2.0 16v dist. hole cover the part number in etka is fowl. or the oe from techtonics, i cant find it on the website
 i would imagine this is not a cheap part from the dealer... why no go to the passat classifeds and get one for like $20


----------



## kpi103 (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (CanadianCabby)*

Theres a dist plug on ebay if you are still looking for one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ories


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

which lines would that be? i have plans to pick up the g60 fpr, as the thread said earlier, and have yet to figure out the injectors. so stock CIS for 84 gli JH set-up won't deliver enough fueal for this badass? damnit... this gets more and more spendy as the days go on. think i'm into it for just under 3.5k right now but that's what i get for doing it right: using all new bolts everywhere in the internals, and new everything else. just got the crank, piston badassedry and rods n pulleys back from the shop for balancing... flywheel lightened and new pressure plate balanced too. 
for future builders of the abf reference: machining off the 5.9 mm for the crank pulley gets rid of the centering ring. 3.9 mm leaves about a quarter mm of it left. is okay though, the bolt pattern is staggered so it'll only bolt to the crank one way. I tapped a mark on it though where the timing belt pulley aligning bump goes just for ease of assembly. 
anybody know a part number for a spacer/washer for the crank bolt that holds the timing belt pulley on? I got a 12 point head one but it bottoms out leaving approx a 1mm gap. 
think that's all!
oh: going to be throwing a get-together in the next 2-4 weeks for assembling my motor for people to learn that are enthusiasts. i got joey from double j to agree to help/teach! this is gunna be rad, dude really knows his stuff and is a good guy! 
crap, one last thing: when plasti guaging the bearings on the rods and crank mains, I can do this with it all uninstalled correct? or will this twist the rods on the crank and give me an inaccurate reading?
THANks!


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (codyo)*

if you machine the 5.9mm off of the ABA crank pulley you really need to machine a counter bore into the pulley and insert a billet ring so it can stay hub centric. if you count on just the fasteners to align it you could have issues. you really don't want your crank pulley to run off center, not even a little. ill post a pic next week, unless someone has one handy here. we also have the CNC machined hub-centric billet rings on the shelf if anyone needs one.


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

can any one shed some light on where i can connect my oil feed line for my turbo on the 16v aba plz?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (8vmonster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8vmonster* »_can any one shed some light on where i can connect my oil feed line for my turbo on the 16v aba plz?

oil filter housing or the dealeo that you screw the oil filter into is a good spot, or the side of the cylinder head http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
peace


----------



## DJP944 (Oct 21, 2005)

ive read through this entire thing a few times, but it cant hurt to keep it going. questions are still unanswered and id like to do this the correct way. I have a complete obd1 aba on a stand and i just finished completely disassembling my 9a 16v. The aba/16v motor will be going into an 84 gti with no power steering and no ac. Can anyone who has built one of these shed some light on a pulley set up for this. Like i said i have both motors complete so i have a lot of parts to rummage. I would like to run the mk3 generator(alternator), but other than that all i have to drive is the waterpump. i know that the timing gear is wider on the 16v, but im a little confused as to which pulley id be better off with. id like to run a serpentine as opposed to a vbelt, which im sure will have an impact on my decision. im getting ahead of myself, but id like to know for future reference.
just finished chiseling all of the sound deadening material off the floorboards in the rabbit, so my apologies if i sound half retarded haha


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (DJP944)*

Are you sure this is not already in here at least few times







Ok, here we go... crank pulley, serp belt set up, timing belt set up. Run the ABA accessory bracket, accessories, serp belt with all the accessory pulleys...bla bla bla ect. Run the 16v timing belt cog gears and the longer AEB or 1.8T timing belt to make up for the taller block and wider 16v timing belt. Modify the ABA crank pulley by machining 5.9mm off and insert a billet hub centric ring to keep it running on center...or just buy our billet crank pulley. This is to make up for the off set of the wider 16v timing belt cog gears. Thats about it for that part of the build. peace


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

ya im pretty sure thats on the first page of the faq... so when you read the thread "a few times" i dont think you were paying attention


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

that sound deadening will do the trick ^.^
(oh and ty Jbetz)


_Modified by 8vmonster at 2:23 AM 1-25-2009_


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

yah, i'd kinda worried that it may run off center, though slightly. do you got a part #/price for that little centering ring? also, with the crank timing belt pulley, and my bolt bottoming out leaving a mm of space in there, do you carry a spacer suitable for that issue? i got the 92 passat crank bolt, with 12 point head... it has no slots in the underside of the lip like the original aba ones do (i know that there was brass looking spacers for these guys what had slots cut to match) so i gotta finger this one out. i thought about just grinding a couple, or three, threads worth of the bolt slowly, and cooling regularly while doing so, but worry because of its hardened nature! thanks jbetz!


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

i have a question about the 20/20 setup, i dont mean to get off the subject of the 16v aba but i was wondering if my wossner16v ABF Turbo, Forged Piston set, 8.0:1CR, 92.8mm stroke, 159mm rod length. 21mm pin would be able to be used with the 20v head without any internal problems...sry just thought i would ask, ty in advanced


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (8vmonster)*

i dont think they will work without some machine work... have you looked at the top of a 1.8t piston? the valve relief is a little differnt than a 16v.. im sure it could be made to work, but why no sell your wossners and buy some new pistons that will work


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

i was thinking about doing that, but on a 16v note, has any one had trouble while using wossner rods with the thickness of the connecting portion of the bottom of the rod not being able to clear the bottom of the cylinder walls where the 2 notches are? i can post a picture if that would further help to explain


----------



## TREKSportMK3 (Feb 1, 2009)

so out of all of this which would be easier/cheaper bahnebrenner with the 16v scirocco intake or do it urself with the 9a?


----------



## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: (TREKSportMK3)*

I have an aba longblock with arp head studs.
If I untourque the head which there were 0 miles on since tourqing, IIRC 75 ft lbs in 3 stages...25,50,75
1. Will the 16v head work with these studs
2. Can I reuse the aba gasket?
3. What are yall touquing these heads too? With or without studs.
I havent planned this out very well so Im just gonna bite the bullet and buy the bahn brenner kit.
Kids do your homework, source all your parts and get cheap machine work done and this really is something that can be done super cheap. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (MDTurborocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MDTurborocco* »_I have an aba longblock with arp head studs.
If I untourque the head which there were 0 miles on since tourqing, IIRC 75 ft lbs in 3 stages...25,50,75
1. Will the 16v head work with these studs
2. Can I reuse the aba gasket?
3. What are yall touquing these heads too? With or without studs.
I havent planned this out very well so Im just gonna bite the bullet and buy the bahn brenner kit.
Kids do your homework, source all your parts and get cheap machine work done and this really is something that can be done super cheap. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

16v studs and 8v studs are different
yes you can re-use arp studs
don't re-use head gaskets...ever
turn to your bentley or the arp torque specs for this
peace


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

if i can ever get soem one to sell me the parts im hoping to be 16vt aba syncro by the end of the summer


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

i have a question will the abf altenator settup on front of the block work with short runner intake? i realised this may cause problems only a few moments ago when i was looking at a picture of some one elses 16v t and i thought to myself that looks awfully close to wear my short runner will be sitting but i cant tell yet because my manifolds are somewhere in canada still i suppose


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (8vmonster)*

Thats a hard question to answer as almost every SRI is different or custom made.


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*plastigage specs for rod and mains?*

i've got everything collected, bored, decked, ported and polished, balanced and ready to go! i don't have the aba book though. i put some plastigage on the journals of the crank mains and torqued to 36 ft. pounds. (what my 84 jetta bentley called for on a 48 ft. pound final called for). i came up short and, before i freak out and go buy undersized bearings now i'm hoping somebody has the specs. i'm looking for the specs for plastigage here please... i already have the final specs, and min/max clearance allowances too please! thanks in advance


----------



## GoingUp (Oct 14, 2006)

Since the search function is only partially working:
I want to build an ABA 16vt with a Holset WH1C on Digi 1, what pistions would I run, I'm planning on doing forged rods and pistions, but my question is on what CR pistons to get, an ABA16v is 9:1 right? That would put ABA 9:1 pistons at 8:1 right? Or would a 16v piston on a forged ABA rod work because 16v pistons raise the CR over ABA pistons so 16v pistons right? Sorry guys I'm running on very little sleep haha


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (GoingUp)*

Most of your answers on the first couple pages. I am not sure about what pistons and rods you should get, How much power are you trying to make?


----------



## 8vmonster (Feb 10, 2008)

well thanks for the attempt at an answer i appreciate it.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (8vmonster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8vmonster* »_i have a question will the abf altenator settup on front of the block work with short runner intake? i realised this may cause problems only a few moments ago when i was looking at a picture of some one elses 16v t and i thought to myself that looks awfully close to wear my short runner will be sitting but i cant tell yet because my manifolds are somewhere in canada still i suppose

i thought that the abf and aba alternator set ups were in the same location... or is the abf lower and without ac. our sri that comes out at a straight shot from the head runner will clear the aba alternator...


----------



## myvw8u (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (12 SEC ABA)*

Has anybody else done this?


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (myvw8u)*

is that dizzy cut down?


----------



## myvw8u (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (CanadianCabby)*

i think it's on page 31, but aparently he just grinded the head alittle and the lower intake bolt.
so any body else


----------



## dubinprogress (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (myvw8u)*

Yea its supposed to be a Fiat cap but Im having a hard time sourcing one. What motor from a fiat and what year??? This would make my life so much easier.


----------



## dubinprogress (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (myvw8u)*

Also ill be running an sri is there any special fuel rail to run then? Or will aba rail work just fine?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going ([email protected])*

X 1/9, circa 79. I have heard a Hyundai Scoupe uses the same cap.
edit: for the rail, you need a 16V rail. Either aftermarket or since you have a SRI, a 1.8T rail should work fine.


_Modified by vwpat at 2:49 PM 3-8-2009_


----------



## dubinprogress (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*

Awsome. Idealy Id like to run this with what I have laying around. I have a complete aba w/ accessories. 16v head w/o distributor(which is why I ask if there is a way around this), g60 throttle body, and options of digi1 or obd1. If I can source this different cap am I about done on the parts collecting? 
also I am running 8psi with t3/T4.


----------



## dubinprogress (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going ([email protected])*

Also I have seen Peugeot caps that look similar. any ideas with that setup?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Also I have seen Peugeot caps that look similar. any ideas with that setup?
yes, not sure which engine though. 405?


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwpat)*

I have a question. Can I use the ABA FPR? I was looking at the ABA FPR and it has a small vac. hose coming off it leading to the intake manifold/


----------



## myvw8u (Mar 9, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Smccoy)*

yes, just plug it into any vaccum hose. should work


----------



## vw silverhaze (Sep 26, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (myvw8u)*

can i just put the 9a motor in a mk3 with all the mk3 accessories


----------



## GTjettaB (Jul 1, 2003)

Can anyone tell me what im going to need to do to run spark plugs/wires on the 16v ABA swap? 
I just got my 16v head but the spark plug holes are obviously in a compltely different spot than on the 8v aba head...Do i have to do anything special to make this work?
Also can i use my 8v spark plugs? 


_Modified by GTjettaB at 4:04 AM 3-15-2009_


----------



## vw silverhaze (Sep 26, 2006)

*Re: (GTjettaB)*

use the 16v plug wires


----------



## GTjettaB (Jul 1, 2003)

I understand that part, but what are they going to screw into? I dont have the head off my aba yet, so i havent seen if there is a place for them to thread into...
All i know is that there are just 4 holes that go all the way through the 16v head with no threads and i didnt know if they are going to hit anything in the block. 
The ABA spark plug holes go in the front on an angle...


----------



## pagani71 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: (GTjettaB)*

i just got done with my swap and rememeberd i have to do the window modification but the threads should be at the bottom of the holes idk if you can see them or not i really didnt look too closely i just know that they screwed in no problem and they arent hitting anything.


----------



## DWP (Dec 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going ([email protected])*

I work at Napa here in BC, heres a list of the reverse cross to our Echlin Ignition products # EP480 for that cap.
AC Delco - E372C or E392
Airtex - 5D1115
Auto Tune - PT1604
Beck Arnley - 1746847
Borg Warner - C584
Bosch - 03156, 03181, 1235522215, 1235522217, 1235522305
Commercial Ignition - XD227
Niehoff - WA401
Sierra Marine - RB940
Standard - GB427







hope its of some help. please keep in mind that some of these #'s may be discontinued by the manufacturer, but some odd reason, we keep the old #'s in our system.
cheers n







's to all the contributors, this thread has helped me plan my ABF to an absolute T.


----------



## twinscrewcaddy (Mar 27, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (myvw8u)*

the aba coolant hose... can i just block off the front outlet on the 16V head and use the aba hose and run it to the side below the 16V dist? whats the reason for the standoff and aba outlet on this pic? do i need it? ( i don't think i do...)
i'm running sciroc management or MSnS...











_Modified by twinscrewcaddy at 4:01 PM 3-28-2009_


----------



## import600 (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German_Muscle* »_~Options~
---------------------------------------------------------------
here is the changes you need to make for the following
1) High Boost Forced Induction-----------ABA pistons/ABA Rods
2) Mild Boost Forced Induction-----------9A pistons/ABA Rods
3) NA + Extreme Nitrous------------------See # 1
4) NA + Mild Nitrous-----------------------See # 2
5) High Compression---------------------ABF Pistons/ABA Rods
6) Stroker----------------------------------9A Pistons/TDI Crank


A few questions:
What is considered high boost and mild boost?
What kind of power would be seen with 5?
What kind of power would be seen with 6? 
With both of those, what would be some of the characteristics of the motor? peppy, bad on gas?


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (import600)*

high id say over 15. high compression and stroker will only yeild a few ponies. high compression means 93 octane or more at all times.


----------



## toy_vw (Feb 11, 2006)

ok..so reading I cant come up with a decent answer...running aba pistons..do you need valve recesses or no? if not what kind of clearence do I have as im using autotech 260s..thanks


----------



## DWP (Dec 27, 2006)

*Re: (toy_vw)*

ABA pistons have a dish in them, so I'd think they'll clear.
No idea on clearance tho with the AT cams.
if you have access to parts for mockup and have the specs to compare the stock lift/duration with the AT's, its only a few measurements


_Modified by DWP at 11:15 AM 4-4-2009_


----------



## skippyunit (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (16vtblackjetta)*

I am having a dilemma with this swap right now. I just got done putting all the pulleys from the 16V on to the ABA bottom end, The intermediate shaft pulleys do not match up. Am I going to have to use the intermediate shaft from a 16V to make this work?


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (skippyunit)*

you either need the 16v im shaft.. or if you want to use the aba shaft you need to have the gear modded.. bbm sells one, but you can get a 16v one on here for cheap


----------



## skippyunit (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (CanadianCabby)*

What about timing belt?


----------



## V-TEC this!!! (May 4, 2003)

*Re: (skippyunit)*

either a abf one or you can use the 1.8T 150 tooth belt. Iirc. wait until someone verifies this for sure.


----------



## skippyunit (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (V-TEC this!!!)*

Yes, I got the 1.8T 150 tooth belt, and it is a tight fit, but it works http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DWP (Dec 27, 2006)

*Re: (skippyunit)*

no issues with valve clearance? I've read elsewhere in the beginning pages of this thread (i think) that theres been damage resulting from using the 1.8T belt.
not to crap on the PP, but I searched the tex, found a seller and in 2 weeks, had ABF belts shipped to my door.


----------



## skippyunit (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (DWP)*

So far, I have checked to see the clearance, and it's alright http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Ragin GTI (Nov 23, 2001)

I am using Continental Contitech TB306. On the box it says replaces 06B109119A. It went right on my ABA16v.


----------



## skippyunit (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (Ragin GTI)*

The 1.8T 150 tooth belt seems to work quite fine for me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DWP (Dec 27, 2006)

*Re: (skippyunit)*

nice! are you running an N/A or boost motor? how do you like it so far?


----------



## skippyunit (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (DWP)*

It will be NA for about 3 more weeks till I finish putting my turbo setup together. I will find out tomorrow exactly how it is. I am so close to being done. The motor sits soo high!


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (skippyunit)*

solid front motor mount from bbm so there wont be any hood issues.... (when and if mount goes)


----------



## skippyunit (Jul 14, 2008)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

Yeah, the hood seems to rest okay. It's just about another 1/2" higher than usual.


----------



## rmurray78 (Jun 8, 2005)

i read through this whole thing. have asked several people but never got a straight answer. its the last thing for my aba 16v swap. so please answer this and dont hassle me about searching. ive searched enough. passat16v auto throttle body or g60.. why can i not use a manual passat throttle body? doesnt that have tps also.


----------



## DubPhreek (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: (rmurray78)*

to do my Megasquirt I had to use a TB with TPS, as I saw, the manual ones didnt have this.. 
Automatic Passat TB has the TPS on it.. just make sure you bring a multimeter, and check to make sure its not dead. 
Should be able to see the values change based on when you actuate the TB http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VIG-SLC (Dec 6, 2003)

i want to do a aba 16v later on but if i build the block can i still run my 8v head in till i get my 16v head.
aba block
aba rods
9a pistons 16v
tdi crank


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (VIG-SLC)*

i have a question for you guys hope fully someone can answer it for me i can get a nice deal on a set of used ross pistons with 300 miles on them supposedly but what i want to know is he was running an 8v head with 8.5:1 know if i throw a 2.0 16v head on top of them pistons what would the compression be


----------



## skippyunit (Jul 14, 2008)

*FV-QR*

It depends, if the compression was that low, it will go lower once you put on the 16V head.


----------



## Sleeper-Dub (Nov 27, 2008)

what ecu can i use if i swap an aba 16v into my mk1? will the mk3 work? or should i go with megasquirt? other options? thanks


----------



## VWFREAK8V (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (Sleeper-Dub)*

Well not to repeat the question but I just swapped a aba motor in my MK2 and I used the MK3 harness. Now if I was to due this what software would I need to run?


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (VWFREAK8V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sleeper-Dub* »_what ecu can i use if i swap an aba 16v into my mk1? will the mk3 work? or should i go with megasquirt? other options? thanks

Get MS and be done with all the playing around.

_Quote, originally posted by *VWFREAK8V* »_Well not to repeat the question but I just swapped a aba motor in my MK2 and I used the MK3 harness. Now if I was to due this what software would I need to run?

Not that this has anything to do with the ABA 16v but you will want to use ABA software, So any Mk3 2.0 chip will work.


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Ok I'm going to tell everyone right now about piston to valve clearance....
I am running ABF cams. These are TT street cams basically. They have .423 lift. That is not much.
I just clayed my engine with the stock ABA pistons, using the ABA multi-layer headgasket. I have *ZERO valve clearance*. What does that mean? That means if you plan on running anything bigger than a euro intake cam you need pistons.
Some one post this on the first page please.


----------



## talon223 (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_
Get MS and be done with all the playing around.


+1 
Standalone FTW.


----------



## tifosi2k2 (Apr 21, 2002)

*Re: (talon223)*

Okay guys I am about to start this little adventure and have a few questions. Last week I printed out this entire thread and highlighted what I though was the pertinent info, thats right, the whole thread, 135 pages on paper.







But a few questions remain.
Here is a what I have accumulated in parts so far:
OBD1 ABA Block
OBD1 ABA Crank
Eurospec 10:1 ABF Pistons
ABA Crank Bearings
ABA Rod Bearings
ABA Rods
2.0 ABA Intermediate Shaft
ABA Oil Pump
ABA Oil Pan
16v head
16v intake manifold
Now, if I were to buy this kit:http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...n_Kit
What else would I need? If I were to buy that kit, what accessories would I use mk3 or 2.0 16v?
And lastly, can I run this thing on Digi2 for the time being? I know it's not optimal but will it run decently until i can fit Megasquirt/ITB's next year?
Thanks guys, this thread is full of info, but with the NA vs Forced Induction and the various kits and parts that have come out over time, I'm a bit confused as to what exactly it is I need.








Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








edit: this is going into a mk2 GTI which is currently running DIGI2 if that matters......


_Modified by tifosi2k2 at 3:10 PM 5-10-2009_


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Rev Jerry)*

That’s awesome you did all that work. I must be one of the lucky ones that are running TT sport cams @ .438 for 2 years and revving to 8200+ with no issues other than not making power in that range. lol
I have heard of issues with machined 16v heads though.









_Quote, originally posted by *Rev Jerry* »_Ok I'm going to tell everyone right now about piston to valve clearance....
I am running ABF cams. These are TT street cams basically. They have .423 lift. That is not much.
I just clayed my engine with the stock ABA pistons, using the ABA multi-layer headgasket. I have *ZERO valve clearance*. What does that mean? That means if you plan on running anything bigger than a euro intake cam you need pistons.
Some one post this on the first page please.


----------



## Forty-six and 2 (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

Is it possible to use the 1.8t's crank gear and pulley in place of the 16v's with the aba crank?


_Modified by Forty-six and 2 at 5:07 PM 5-19-2009_


----------



## brosef (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: (tifosi2k2)*

Well the BBM modified IM pulley just lets you use a 16v pulley on an ABA IM shaft, keeping the ABA oil pump... so you'll still be able to use the regular mk3 accessories, but run a thicker 16v timing belt. The pulley just lines everything up...
I think it may be cheaper if you just buy the BBM IM and crank pulleys and dizzy separately, and search the classifields for a 16v fuel rail, timing belt, etc. And use the extra couple 100$ for new cams...


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Rev Jerry)*

do you know if the block has been decked or the head?


----------



## Forty-six and 2 (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: (brosef)*

I have since just bought the 16v IM shaft, and crank gear. Now my only question is, will the 1.8t's crank pulley/harmonic balancer work in place of the machined ABA or BBM crank pulley? My motor is at the machine shop, so I unable to check for myself. The pulley will mount up to the 16v gear, it's just a matter of will it line up will the ABA belt setup?


----------



## brosef (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: (Forty-six and 2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Forty-six and 2* »_I have since just bought the 16v IM shaft, and crank gear. Now my only question is, will the 1.8t's crank pulley/harmonic balancer work in place of the machined ABA or BBM crank pulley? My motor is at the machine shop, so I unable to check for myself. The pulley will mount up to the 16v gear, it's just a matter of will it line up will the ABA belt setup?

I don't think it will, you need a spacer. But I haven't ran anything as such, so don't listen to me


----------



## Forty-six and 2 (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: (brosef)*

A spacer is easier than maching work. I guess I will just have to wait to find out. Thanks


----------



## brosef (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: (Forty-six and 2)*

Forgot to mention, if something like the PS and WP do not line up, you can always get:
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...V_Ltd
and
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...V_Ltd


----------



## Apsik (Nov 12, 2005)

I'm going to build 2.0l 16vT but...
If it's much easier for me to get the ABF of 2E block then ABA ODB1 - can I use the ABF/ 2E block instead? (I'm from Europe)
They have this same diameters but is the ABF / 2E crank forged?


_Modified by Apsik at 10:54 AM 6-1-2009_


----------



## Rev Jerry (Apr 20, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*

my head has been decked a couple thousandths. the block is as it came out of the factory.
Even if my head hadn't been decked I wouldn't run it without valve reliefs.
If you don't have at least .050" of clearance your going to have problems. Even that little makes me uncomfortable. I like at the very least .070" of clearance.


_Modified by Rev Jerry at 12:41 PM 6-3-2009_


----------



## o_kh3 (Feb 20, 2009)

*Re: (Apsik)*

the 2e is same as ABA.


----------



## hasnfefr (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (o_kh3)*

ttt


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (hasnfefr)*

so, anybody got some pictures of a aba16v completed and in a car?
is there any jimmy riggen that has to happen? I also have a q about the 1.8t fuel rail. is that possible to use or did I read wrong


_Modified by slim-jim at 1:09 PM 6-22-2009_


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

coolant lines will need some "jimmy rigging"...
nobody ever mentions thoes.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (speed51133!)*

ok well thanks man


----------



## daneek155 (Apr 23, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Rev Jerry)*

so im confused, you cant just put the 2.0 16v heaD on a 2.0 obd1 aba block, used for a turbo mk2


----------



## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (daneek155)*


_Quote, originally posted by *daneek155* »_so im confused, you cant just put the 2.0 16v heaD on a 2.0 obd1 aba block, used for a turbo mk2

No read atleast the first 20 pages carefully. Its not hard and there are many combinations.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

my 16v/aba is running now turn key,.. i love it... i will get some pics real soon


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

are you turbo and what comp. to you have


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

i am turbo and im running digi 1 with 60# chip


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

follow the link below for pics of working aba16v in a mk3. if you are considering doing the swap? DO IT. you will love it. 
http://www.customobsessions.co...24348


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (leon whalen)*

cool, I am gonna do it just need a couple more parts


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (leon whalen)*

do I need the crank gear also not just the pulley. the gear that the crank pulley bolts up to thanks in advance I couldn't find anything about that and I don't know what that would be called


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

you need the crank timing belt gear from a 2.0 16v, and also the crank pulley aka harmonic balancer (needs modification milling 6mm off crank side and ring pressed in)


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (speed51133!)*

thank you, what kind of ring, is it to make the lip of the pulley. I am gonna be runnin aba acc.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (slim-jim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slim-jim* »_thank you, what kind of ring, is it to make the lip of the pulley. I am gonna be runnin aba acc. 
 To centre it after you machine the 6 mm off.


----------



## jetta_boy1990 (Sep 12, 2008)

*16v headswap help*

ok well im kinda new to the whole 16v forum. but this is what i want to do cause i need more power in my jetta.
i have a 1996 jetta OBDII. i want to do a 16v headswap. is it possible to do to an OBDII. i read the first page and it says about OBDI but nothing about OBDII???


----------



## shwagondawheels (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_Idler/Tensioner Pulley: 2.0L16 or 1.8 16v but you really should be buying a new one
Oil Pump: MUST BE 2.0 16v
Oil Pump Drive: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v must go with approprite int shaft. the gear is alot smaller for a 1.8 16v
Water Pump: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or ABA
Water Pump Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or ABA or vr6 wapter pump if you want serp setup
Crank Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or shaved ABA 
Alternator: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or ABA
Alternator Pulley: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or ABA
Alternator Belt: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v or serp belt
Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v 
 
*Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v* 
so you can use a 1.8 16v PL IM in an ABA no clearance issues?
i was told it wont work.. i don't see why not..


----------



## shwagondawheels (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: (shwagondawheels)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shwagondawheels* »_ 
*Intermediate Shaft: 2.0L 16v or 1.8 16v* 
so you can use a 1.8 16v PL IM in an ABA no clearance issues?
i was told it wont work.. i don't see why not..

So I answered my own question today and tried a mock up with the PL intermediate in my 94 ABA bottom end and the crank interferes with the gear on the intermediate... the connecting rod of cylinder #4 hit the gear on the end of the intermediate 
*Note: PL or 1.8 16v intermediate will not clear in an ABA bottom* 
I missed the page that stated this, if there is one.
9A intermediate. oil pump gear, and block dizzy block off cap anyone?
I will be buying new 9A oil pump... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Todays mock up, pics for kicks








ABA on stand, 1.8 16v head on bench in the back, pl block on ground (for parts) and two counterflows from prior 16v swaps 


_Modified by shwagondawheels at 6:50 AM 7-17-2009_


----------



## sake138 (Mar 5, 2009)

*Re: (shwagondawheels)*

I'm thinking about doing this swap has anyone used this kit before, and did is it worth it?
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...n_Kit


----------



## shwagondawheels (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: (sake138)*

yeah a lot have and I am not one of them but it will save you a lot of trouble...


----------



## lowlevelowl (Jul 25, 2004)

*Re: (slim-jim)*



















_Modified by lowlevelowl at 11:15 PM 7/29/2009_


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (lowlevelowl)*

very nice moded 1.8t mani how was that did you do it yourself or I am thinkin a doin that but there still alot more important parts I need. 
I want to use my aba oil pump and int shaft and I am wantering if I can put a spacer on that shaft to get the sprocket on. I really need to get my motor on the stand so I can stop imaginin and see it for real.
By the way what pistons you got in there and is that a 9a block. cr


----------



## lowlevelowl (Jul 25, 2004)

It's running an approximate 10.5:1 compression ratio using ABF pistons from Bahn Brenner Motorsports.
The motor is a freshly rebuilt 1.8L 16v head mated to a OBD1 2.0L ABA bottom end.
I'm using a 1.8t intake manifold with HKS air filter modified to fit a 16v cylinder head and a stock dual outlet downpipe from a MK2 GTi that is fit to a 2.25" TT exhaust system (deleted cat).
The ECU is 034efi Stage Ic running waste spark and 24lb/hour injectors also from BBM.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (lowlevelowl)*

very nice and those pistons don't get a dropped compression because of the 16v on a aba block or are they 11.5>1 cr


----------



## lowlevelowl (Jul 25, 2004)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

They are replica oem ABF pistons and bring the compression ratio up to approximately 10.5:1


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (lowlevelowl)*

very nice, the only problem I am looking at is the pistons I have 9a ones but I don't know how to tell the weear and think that they need replacement. great success


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (slim-jim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slim-jim* »_so, anybody got some pictures of a aba16v completed and in a car?
_Modified by slim-jim at 1:09 PM 6-22-2009_

































This engine is a hole nether level.
I am currently rebuilding with H beam rods. i was afraid the OEM rods at 430whp wouldn't last.
new H beam rods 8.5:1 JE up from 8.0:1 Wossners and water/ meth
kit will be making 475-500 whp soon.


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: (lowlevelowl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lowlevelowl* »_It's running an approximate 10.5:1 compression ratio using ABF pistons from Bahn Brenner Motorsports.
The motor is a freshly rebuilt 1.8L 16v head mated to a OBD1 2.0L ABA bottom end.
I'm using a 1.8t intake manifold with HKS air filter modified to fit a 16v cylinder head and a stock dual outlet downpipe from a MK2 GTi that is fit to a 2.25" TT exhaust system (deleted cat).
The ECU is 034efi Stage Ic running waste spark and 24lb/hour injectors also from BBM. 

have you ever dyno'd this set up, or 1/4 miled it? if so, what #'s.
i have aba16v in a mk3 with a t.t. chip & euro cam. it runs 15.2 on street tires. never dyno'd, but should be over 140whp


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (leon whalen)*

I have seen similar setups and they said 170hp. I think that the head on a aba starts out higher than stock 9a not sure but I hope so.


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

170hp would be at crank. & yes aba16v combo is about 150hp @ crank with no mods


----------



## 8vlove12 (Jan 8, 2008)

what kind of ecu's are you guys running. im almost done with my car and thats the only thing that im trying to figure out. if i should run a 16v ecu or g60


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: (8vlove12)*

stock aba ecu with techtonics chip (aba16v) works great, no complaints http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by leon whalen at 1:58 PM 8-14-2009_


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (leon whalen)*

A few paged back I made a statement that I have no valve contact with TT sport cams and *I was wrong*.
Finally I have the blown engine apart and I have more factual details.
Pictures say it all.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (pozer)*

ouch dam that's bad. sorry to see that man.
I saw somethin on this once now I can't find it.
Are aba and abf wrist pins the same size 21 mm right.
Also does anybody know if the piston rings would be the same.


_Modified by slim-jim at 9:11 AM 8-24-2009_


----------



## disphunktion (May 18, 2002)

*Timing belt*

For those that might have been looking for the timing belt. 
It's an 150 teeth and the part # is 06B 109 119F


----------



## Mattymcg112 (Aug 3, 2009)

*Re: Timing belt (disphunktion)*

Can i use 1.8t pulleys instead of 9a pulleys? im picking up a full 1.8t 16v motor with 020 tranny for 300 and was wondering if i can use everything from that motor instead of having to source out my pulleys and such.
EDIT: figured it out. was ONLY 8 pages in and got my awnser on page 10, now with all the bull**** crammed in my head from the first 8 posts i forget what i have to do to run my ABA distributor instead of the 16v one! i know i read about it but HA! i forget! back to reading
























_Modified by Mattymcg112 at 11:22 PM 8-24-2009_


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: Timing belt (Mattymcg112)*

you need a cap that helps clear the head thout of doing that but got a 16v disty I also thought to cut the bottom off the 8v disty. So now I f'd one up. I think it can be done cheaper than a diizzy from bahn.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Timing belt (slim-jim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slim-jim* »_ I think it can be done cheaper than a diizzy from bahn.
yes, use 9A parts.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: Timing belt (vwpat)*

ya I just meant to use the aba int shaft but then I forgot about the sprocket. I just got int and all that junk for less than the price of the dizzy from bb. Do you know if the 1.8t engine code matters in order to use the manifold, fuel rail and injectors


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Timing belt (slim-jim)*

use a transverse engine for the manifold to cut and weld, a transverse fuel rail is easier and cleaner, different codes do use different injectors but see what you need first.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: Timing belt (vwpat)*

is it aww most of the ones I have found have just said 1.8t


----------



## jfindley (Jun 22, 2008)

*ABA16v SC into Mk1*

Okay kids, made it through all 52 pages finally. I have a couple questions
that are more opinion or advice issues rather than nuts and bolts how-tos:
I am building one of these to stuff into a Mk1. I plan to build it with all ABA internals (crank, pistons, rods) for low compression in order to run a charger. I plan on buying the BBM kit to help with the stuff I'm missing (see list).
Here is what I have:
ABA mostly complete engine OBD2 (I know, I know)
1.8 16v complete engine
Experience
$$$
Here is what I know I'm buying:
Scirocco intake
BBM ABA16v kit
BBM fuel rail
Misc. little bits scrounged here and there
SC kit or individual pieces yet TBD
Headache
Here is what I don't have:
ABA wiring harness and ECU
Exhaust manifold of any kind
Downtube of any kind
16v Distributor
Throttle Body (16v auto Passat)
Friends
The life I always dreamed of
Questions:
1. Since I need some sort of management anyway should I just go stand alone? According to pozer on page 50 "Get MS and be done with all the playing around." and that was seconded by talon223. Any issues with using the older fusebox?
2. Should I look at other SEM aside from Megasquirt? It looks like the others I've seen are stupid expensive.
3. What's a good solution for an exhaust mani/header and downpipe combo? I am planning on getting a new TT exhaust so I'm pretty flexible here as long as I can stuff it into a Mk1.
4. Any advice on Superchargers specific to this swap? I've seen some cool pics of intercoolers in Mk1s but not a lot of info on what was used. Space is tight so any ideas would be appreciated.
5. Anything else specific to this going into a Mk1? Past pitfalls and solutions from anyone appreciated.
My ultimate goal is an honest 200WHP. That said, HP isn't my real goal but Torque is. Thus my choice of a charger. So keep that in mind if you have any comments to add.
Thanks to everyone that's contributed to this topic. Lots of really great info from good people. And even thanks to the morons that keeps asking the same questions over and over. They just helped drill into my head what does and does not work and what is and is not needed. And thanks for reading this long post...


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (jfindley)*

ok i just got done reading this whole thread, i am still a little unclear on how to do the pully setup. ok i am probably gonna get the bbm im pulley, the dizzy gizzy, the bbm crank serpentine pulley and the timing belt from bbm that they have for the swap. i just dont know what to use for the bottom crank pulley, where the timing belt goes? i read that i could use a 2.0 16v pullye or i could just machine down my stock aba pulley and use a spacer? if that sounds right please let me know. any info would be great


_Modified by 98jettadub at 11:56 PM 8-31-2009_


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (jfindley)*

MS would work. Lugtronic would also work for you. both work on ce1 and ce2 fuse panels.
for exhaust manifold you need a 16v scirocco and downpipe and you will need to get a spacer because you are using an ABA bottom end.
Even though a charger would be cool id recommend a turbo over a SC because of the exhaust thing, and the fact that all the SC kits for 4 cyl suck. would really need to be custom.
@98jettadub
you need to use a 2.0 16v timing gear and a modified ABA pulley or get the one from BBM.


----------



## jfindley (Jun 22, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_MS would work. Lugtronic would also work for you. both work on ce1 and ce2 fuse panels.

I forgot about Lugtronic. I'm wading through the SEM forum now - ugh.

_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_for exhaust manifold you need a 16v scirocco and downpipe and you will need to get a spacer because you are using an ABA bottom end.

I figured I'd have to monkey something up due to the taller block. I guess I was asking if it was worth looking into a header or other setup. I'll look at crap in the JY and get ideas.

_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_Even though a charger would be cool id recommend a turbo over a SC because of the exhaust thing, and the fact that all the SC kits for 4 cyl suck. would really need to be custom.

But it's a SUPERcharger! It has super right in the name! How can you possibly go wrong? I'm not 100% sold on a SC but I prefer the torque curve, sound, and uniqueness of a SC over a turbo. I may change my mind after shopping around.
Thanks for the info...
JF


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (jfindley)*

i doubt they make a header. it would have to be specifically for an ABF in a mk1.
SC def unique, but boost is very addicting. and you will end up going turbo later anyway. just trying to save you some headaches. proper turbo and you will still make the torque you want.


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (bonesaw)*

i am confused as to what crank gear to put on my aba 16v. should i run a 2.0 16v crank gear, 1.8t gear, or get the aba one machined down? any incite would help alot. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (98jettadub)*

2.0 16v. the 1.8t one i belive is the same. the ABA part that gets shaved is the pulley NOT the gear.


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (bonesaw)*

ok thanks. so i just have to buy a aftermarket accessory crank pully from bbm correct?


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (98jettadub)*

or shave an ABA one.


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (bonesaw)*

ok thanks.


----------



## jfindley (Jun 22, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_SC def unique, but boost is very addicting. and you will end up going turbo later anyway. just trying to save you some headaches. proper turbo and you will still make the torque you want.

Hey, not a bad idea! I'll just add a turbo to my SC for maximum effect.
Seriously, I've seen a lot of crap turbo setups that seem to do not much besides make noise and heat. I'll look around and see how things price out and what I really will get for my money.
JF


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (jfindley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jfindley* »_
Hey, not a bad idea! I'll just add a turbo to my SC for maximum effect.
Seriously, I've seen a lot of crap turbo setups that seem to do not much besides make noise and heat. I'll look around and see how things price out and what I really will get for my money.
JF

Go turbo. I have had both in an A2 GLI; went through 4 G60's and then converted to turbo. Would never look back.
Admittedly, G60 design leaves something to be desired. But the power from a good turbo setup is just awesome.
Good luck.


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (papichulo7)*

another question for anyone. what fuel rail would i use for the aba 16v swap? i could buy the bbm one but that is 140. if i could find a little cheaper that would be nice.


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (98jettadub)*

SC are not cheap. if you plan a turbo setup itll make power. BBM rail or ross. pretty much only options.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (98jettadub)*

mk4 1.8t fuel rail


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (slim-jim)*

it fits with no modification?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (98jettadub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98jettadub* »_it fits with no modification?
"arms" for injectors need to be lengthened.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (98jettadub)*

unless 1.8t mani used also. does anybody know if the throttle bodys line up(1.8t aba)


----------



## shwagondawheels (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: ABA16v SC into Mk1 (slim-jim)*

aba tb fits 1.8t mani no issues, just mocked mine up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 1slowVW (Sep 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I have read over this thread on several occasions, but I don't find much in the way of people running G-60's on their aba/16v? I'm just wondering how much power I stand to loose if i keep the aba pistons, with the G-ladder. I'm planning on running stock pulley on the charger, but it is already stage 4 ported and rebuilt. I would like to keep it low compression to be able to run a small nitrous shot on occasion(the occasion that my buddy pulls up to me in his VRT)
I'm assuming I should be fine with the lower compression even if I'm not running high boost numbers but I would love to hear it from someone who has done this.
Thanks
1SlowVW


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (1slowVW)*

i got a deal on a mk4 18.t intake manifold. my question is, what is all involved in mounting it to the 16v head? do i have to cut flanges? thanks


----------



## E-H-R-B (Sep 20, 2009)

Ok im building a aba 16valve and would like to go stroker with it aswell, im told some years tdi cranks will fit in with the 95.5mm stroke ? any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks


----------



## shwagondawheels (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (98jettadub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98jettadub* »_i got a deal on a mk4 18.t intake manifold. my question is, what is all involved in mounting it to the 16v head? do i have to cut flanges? thanks

same here.. anyone?


----------



## kompressorgolf (Dec 6, 2005)

FWIW. ive over 1000 miles so far on my ABA 16VT and its rockin 1.8 PL intermediate shaft and oil pump etc. i had the corner of the #4 rod cap machined off to clear if i remember by 90 thousants. (min)


----------



## disphunktion (May 18, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (shwagondawheels)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shwagondawheels* »_
same here.. anyone?

with so many request isn't it possible to create an adapter to bolt this on?


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (disphunktion)*

i gathered the following parts for my aba 16v swap....i got a 2.0 16v oil pump,int.shaft,distributor blockoff, the 1.8t timing belt and 1.8l 16v head. so all i need now is the machined crank pulley to run my accesories correct? and i also forgot i made a throttle body adaptor.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (98jettadub)*

and a chip to make it work. distributor plug wires. crank gear do you have the int sprocket also.
and your quote is tru I don't know why people have to be ***** to fellow dubbers or just vortexers
_Modified by slim-jim at 7:11 PM 10-7-2009_


_Modified by slim-jim at 7:12 PM 10-7-2009_


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (slim-jim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slim-jim* »_and a chip to make it work. distributor plug wires. crank gear do you have the int sprocket also.
and your quote is tru I don't know why people have to be ***** to fellow dubbers or just vortexers
_Modified by slim-jim at 7:11 PM 10-7-2009_

_Modified by slim-jim at 7:12 PM 10-7-2009_

oh yea i forgot i got the crank gear and int. sprocket. so then all i need is plug wires,distributor, and the crank pulley. i appreciate the help, i want to do this one time only... the right way lol


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (slim-jim)*

I ran the OEM ABA timing belt pulley with the BBM kit . I was going to use the 16v Dist.
off the head but decidded to go Wastespark instead.
Here is my build thread.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3701787








I finished with 282whp and 265wtq on pump 92 octane. it ran 13.1 @ 107mph
I have since done a Turbo setup and have desidded to go with the 9A IM shaft w/gear and swap the 9A oil pump splined shaft into the aba oil pump.
Here is the latest build








430whp 372wtq on pump 92 octane Ran 12.3 @117mph 
both setups same transaxle/tires/weight.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (REPOMAN)*

I have a pic request for the Alternator setup. here are the best pics i have showing
the setup.

























































_Modified by REPOMAN at 5:51 PM 10-19-2009_


_Modified by REPOMAN at 5:52 PM 10-19-2009_


----------



## RoadRoque09 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (REPOMAN)*

i am looking at doing this swap in my project car however i don't know if i should use ether an OBD1 or OBD2 engine management system. i am looking to be keeping it naturally aspirated for now but maybe in the next 5-7 years i will supercharge it.


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (RoadRoque09)*

I just got my engine back along with my new pistons from Wiseco. I forgot which way the valve reliefs face. I'm pretty sure it was the intake side but I'm not a 100 percent on it.


_Modified by Smccoy at 5:33 PM 10-24-2009_


----------



## daneek155 (Apr 23, 2008)

*Re: Timing belt (disphunktion)*

hey i got a 90 1.8 16v that is turboed. i have an extra 95 aba that runs good. can someone guide me on what i would need tog et the block on my 16v head please thanks


----------



## daneek155 (Apr 23, 2008)

*Re: Timing belt (daneek155)*

i am going to be running the same mk2 pulleys is that ok.


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (REPOMAN)*

REPOMAN
do you know what timing cover will fit 
love your wok man that thing is sick, makes me want to go forced


----------



## VEEDUBB1 (May 1, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (slim-jim)*

somebody needs to summarize this thread from all possible angles and scenarios and let this one die! history is repeating itself every 10 pages. But all in all it answered a few of my questions!


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (slim-jim)*

You can get the ABF timing belt cover from overlandparts.com I decided to keep 
it a Rock Crusher for ease of maintenance.
correct the valve reliefs face the the intake side.


----------



## ozzman_g7 (Feb 12, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VEEDUBB1)*

Hi, I'm doing a Lysholm Aba 16v with megasquirt.
I have a few questions hope someone can help:
1. What did you put here on #1 and #2?
On #3, did you drill a hole here for the oil return? If so what size?








Where does these things go?








On #1, did you grind to get the support flat? or am I missing something? Where can I get this plate?








Sorry for a lot of questions.
Thanks


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (ozzman_g7)*

#1 i used a freeze plug i believe a 44mm. #2 the Techtonicstuning
block off plate w/ a tapped fitting for crank case breathing.
. #3 super charger oil return
as for the 5 shims in the kit yes the alternator mount to the engine mount gets 4 of them then the last one is use at the bottom of the
bracket to the block due to it's spacing gap from the plate on the 
side of the block.
from your photo i would recomend one thing. a harmonic balancer.


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (REPOMAN)*

what would average hp numbers look like for a n/a 16v aba using abf pistons? i would go the FI route but the car the motor is going into is my daily. i might build a turbo 16v aba for the weekend car if everything goes accordingly.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (98jettadub)*

I figure around 140-150whp which is good compared to the OEM numbers of the 
G60 158crank 135wheel or the vr6 178crank 150wheel.


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_I figure around 140-150whp which is good compared to the OEM numbers of the 
G60 158crank 135wheel or the vr6 178crank 150wheel.

thanks man you been alot of help cheers to you.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sg97golf (Nov 2, 2007)

this thread is craaaaammmeed with info. alright so im going to be getting ready for an aba 16v swap here really soon. i have a spare aba. and ive been piecing together parts. im going to be welding together the aba intake manifold corner with a 16v mani like this: http://www.customobsessions.co...art=0
(mock up 3/4's of the way down the page.)
i want to keep it as simple as possible. im going to be using abf pistons on this setup. i am going to purchase a dizzy gizzy,16v crank pulley, aba/16v drive sprocket, all from bbm. i am also going to get a block off plate. and i will be using a tt aba16v chip. and i am probally going to use a bbm fuel rail.i know i need an aeb belt. will that sum up my list of stuff i need?


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## sg97golf (Nov 2, 2007)

i know i obviously also need a 16v head with upper/lower manifold. and what exhuast manifold is the cheapest to use with this? with all of this.. i can leave most of the aba stuff stock right?


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## sg97golf (Nov 2, 2007)

so if i run the bbm crank pulley, dizzy gizzy, bbm aba/16v drive sprocket, will i be able to keep everything including accessories from the aba? also what do i need to do about the fpr and the fuel pump? is there anyway to keep the mk3 aba one?


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (sg97golf)*

You can use the OEM fuel pump just fine. The fuel rail has a fitting
adapture for FPR. I use a 944 3.8bar FPR thats threaded to the fitting.
If you are going to use the 16v dist then you will need the Dizzy gizzy
for the ABA oil pump. you can also use the 9a OEM oil pump setup in the ABA. then you will use the 9A IM shaft and pulley. 
I do use the ABA accessiories pulley setup for my Turbo setup but with 
the S/C setup i used the G60 bracket, VR6 waterpump pulley, BBM mod IM gear. Dizzy gizzy, BBM crank pulley.
I would recomend a Harmonic ballancer Crank pulley, I have used a
TDI Crank pulley and now i use a Fluidamper.


----------



## sg97golf (Nov 2, 2007)

so my list is complete and good to go? what if i decide to use the aba distributor? what would i do then?


----------



## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (ozzman_g7)*

where did you get that water neck
with the sensor fittings.
and is that 150 hp to the wheels or at the crank


----------



## vwlove2004 (Mar 12, 2008)

Alright i read just 5 posts up and someone kind of answered my question. Once again this is a 1996 turbo 2.0 x flow i am doing the head conversion and want to make sure that i have the right parts list to run my stock aba accesories other then the distributor i would need the dizzy gizzy, BBM Fuel rail or 16v fuel rail, BBM aba/16v Drive sprocket, BBM Crank Pulley or Harmonic Ballancer crank pulley or i can get my stock aba Crank pulley milled down 5.5 to 6 mm off of the back side. does this complete my list? i have 8v arp head studs would i need 16v head studs?
Thanks Vwlove2004


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (vwlove2004)*

I recomend a harmonic balancer. i shook my motor apart without it
so it is a good idea. as for the spacing of the crank pulley i used 
a TDI crank pulley that has a harmonic balancer and a spacer. i just took off a few mills on the belt sander. 
and yes you will need 16v head studs.

















_Modified by REPOMAN at 9:02 PM 11-5-2009_


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## vwlove2004 (Mar 12, 2008)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*

Rock n Roll so a Mk3 TDI Crank Pully? or a Mk2 or either or, with a harmonic balancer.


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## vwlove2004 (Mar 12, 2008)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*

One more question, if I'm using my obd2 bottom end y do I need to change the oil pump and intermediat shaft. Couldent I keep my obd2 distributor and use a block off plate for the distributor on the head. And if I cannot use the the aba without the pump and I'm do I need to use a aba rotor so my computer will read ok?


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (vwlove2004)*

If the ABA distributor is not in the way of anything yes you can get the 
block off for the 16v in head distributor and just use the ABA dist
with the modified IM gear. The ABA Dist. Most likly will not fit
under the 16v Intake manifold.
I had the supercharger piping and 16v intake manifold in the way so 
i modded the 16v head dist. and went that route for awhile. now i have
both dist. holes blocked off and you wastespark coils.
If you block off the ABA distributor hole and use the 16v distributor in the head you will need to change the hall window rotor/shaft for digi
1, and wire the plug wire rotation backwards due to the 16v distributor
rotation. as for OBD1 & 2 im not sure how many pick up windows they read. 1 or 4 are the choices.



















_Modified by REPOMAN at 3:32 PM 11-8-2009_


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*

you cannot use the ABA dizzy if you change to 16V pullies (esp. the IS) since it will rotate at an incorrect speed due to pulley size differences. This will throw your timing way off. OBD 1 and 2 use a single window dizzy so the 16v needs to be modded.


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## vwlove2004 (Mar 12, 2008)

*Re: (vwpat)*

So if I keep my aba distributor and just mill my crank pulley I should be fine? Or do I have to change to 16v pulleys because of width reasons?


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## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*

so anybody know where to get the info on the dizzy fab changing the windows. Am I not searching right cause i get nothing.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

To modifie the Distributor Hall pickup you first remove the 
Dist gear from the ABA dist and remove the shaft w/ hall windows.
remove the 16v shaft w/hall window. 
remove the window wheels and swap them. reassemble with a new pin.
BTW i have a Dizzy Gizzy and modified IM gear for sale.
$100 ea.




















_Modified by REPOMAN at 5:46 PM 11-25-2009_


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## slim-jim (Nov 11, 2008)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*

your talkin the metal cap right I think I screwed mine can you buy just the hall window

thank you and I finaly watched that rado go down the track that thing is sick man. very nice build that rabbit was bad as hell too. 


_Modified by slim-jim at 8:26 PM 11-8-2009_


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## YUENGLINGMIKE! (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: (slim-jim)*

is the diameter of the bbm intermediate shaft gear the same as the 16v or aba one?.. or nether of them
I'm trying to keep my dizzy on the block and have not really seen a good concrete answer. I have the 90* cap. Can i just get the bbm gear and everything will time properly? I read above that one guy said the timing will be off, but has anyone else tried?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
We have forged 83mm units on the shelf with 16V reliefs cut in.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html










Nice, but that link doesn't currently come up with any item on your site. Also, I'm looking for very low CR (7-7.5) with such a nice squish land, preferably with cutouts sufficient for non-interference when the timing belt jumps or breaks.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

Does anyone know if the ABF throttle body would work with OBD2, or just OBD1?


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## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: (o2bad455)*

i am gonna be running all mk3 accessories on my swap. so i need the 2.0 16v crank gear and a milled down aba pulley or a bbm crank pulley correct? thanks for the help. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## soontobe83 (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

where can I find the TT block off plate? for the ABA 16v conversion





















http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## tfatout (Feb 20, 2008)

*Re: (98jettadub)*

you got it. I had my aba crank pulley machined down (cost 30$) makes for a perfect fit with aba acc's


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## vdubxcrew (Jul 25, 2004)

*Re: (tfatout)*

I have a few questions regarding coolant hose plumbing. I plan on deleting my coolant ball and the hoses leading to the heater core. I plan on using an inline filler neck on the upper rad hose. Do I need to still run hose to the drivers side of the head? Or can I use a block-off plate and be fine with just the one on the front of the head? And what about the 2 coolant sensors from the 8v head flange? Where do I incorporate them?


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## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9*

What chip do you use for n/a obd2 and do you have any dyno sheet?
Want to know if we can have something similar to the true ABF who is suppose to have about 170 crank hp with a chip.
I will use ABF intake, vr6 obd2 throttle body and ABF camshaft with 10:1 to 11:1 compression.


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (Jolf3)*

i have obd1 aba16v with a t.t.chip, euro intake cam, stock 16v pistons, with a decked block for 11:1 comp. in a 94 gti. 
no dyno sheets, but i did [email protected] in the 1/4mile. my car weighs 2620lb with me in it, so that translates to about [email protected]
abf cam is a great choice. if you can get your hands on an abf cam set that would be great because the exhaust cam is also bigger. 
i would not recomend using abf intake. because euro injectors are not the same as ours. and you can not swap ours in, they mount differently......good luck with your build.


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## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (leon whalen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leon whalen* »_i have obd1 aba16v with a t.t.chip, euro intake cam, stock 16v pistons, with a decked block for 11:1 comp. in a 94 gti. 
no dyno sheets, but i did [email protected] in the 1/4mile. my car weighs 2620lb with me in it, so that translates to about [email protected]
abf cam is a great choice. if you can get your hands on an abf cam set that would be great because the exhaust cam is also bigger. 
i would not recomend using abf intake. because euro injectors are not the same as ours. and you can not swap ours in, they mount differently......good luck with your build. 

Thanks for yours answer.
Your number confort me.
Do your have the # of your chip?
I was thinking that obd2 (motronic 5.9) was better than obd1 (motronic 2.9) for 16v, maybe i was wrong.
I already have the abf cams (051 101 & 051 102).
If i use the abf intake, i'll use something like it but with o-ring, not press fit. With ABA injectors and 1.8T fuel rail.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3595210 
I already have a kr 50mm intake, but i'll have to make a adapter for the throttle body if i want to use it.
So one or the other i'll have some work to do. 



_Modified by Jolf3 at 8:42 PM 12-1-2009_


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (Jolf3)*

i dont have chip#. it is in the car. just call t.t. tuning, tell them what your mods are and they will burn a chip to suit your needs.
my car will red line 5th gear @ over 130mph because chip takes away top speed gov.
i built an aba16v in a mk2 jetta for my 17 year old son. and t.t. set top speed gov. at 100mph. so just tell them what you need, they custom burn to match.


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## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (leon whalen)*

Thanks!


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## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (leon whalen)*

leon whalen
Member
Offline
Member Since
5-27-2007
18 posts
truro nova scotia
94 gti aba16v-*STROKER* 

You have a tdi crankshaft (95.5)?


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (Jolf3)*

yes, i have a crank out of a 96 tdi. 95.5 stroke. i had to cut a keyway in the end of the snout for the 16v crank sprocket. i also had to grind the counter weights to clear the oil squirters, so i kept grinding untill the tdi crank was as light as an aba crank.
check out the link below to see my build.
http://www.customobsessions.co...24348


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## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (leon whalen)*

It's not the same thing if you have to put the 95.5 to have ± 170 crank hp.
I think i'll put megasquirt on mine, obd1 or obd2 with chip look like to be a lot less powerful than the ABF with a chip (170 crank hp without other mod)!


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (Jolf3)*

i have two aba16v motors. the 170hp is non stroked. it 'was' in my gti, but then i took it out & put it in my sons 90 jetta coupe.
then i built a stroked aba16v with the dual exhaust cam conversion. the cam is worth 8hp. the stroker crank is only about 5hp but it raises your comp. & gives about 10 ft lbs more torque.(you really feel it)
i dont know who told you a chipped abf gives 170hp. but they are 150hp stock, and i never heard of any chip company that can pull 20hp out of a 4cyl n/a motor. most chips advertise 7 to 10 hp increase.
i dont know anything about megasquirt, but a chip cost $100. & most stand alone systems are almost $2 grand by the time you buy them & then pay for a dyno to have them tuned properly. so make sure the increase in power is worth the extra $$$ before you buy anything......good luck with your build. any pics of your progress?


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## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (leon whalen)*

No progress for now, i have only buy parts.


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## shwagondawheels (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (Jolf3)*

ill be trying a mk4 8v crank pulley on the 16v timing gear on my abf...
i figured it would work because a new mk4 8v uses a timing belt as wide as a mk2 16v..
anyone else done this on this thread?
i may have missed it with all the pages...


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Heater core hose*

I'm wondering about the one heater core hose that runs to the coolant flange on the back of the old 8v head. Anyone run into this problem and what they did to remedy it. I want to keep my heater since I live in Illinois and it does get cold.


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Heater core hose (Smccoy)*

oem g60 coolant flange.... i might have an extra one and im in IL... I can get pics for you... where is ofallon?


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: Heater core hose (Greengt1)*

Ofallon is 30 minutes east of St. Louis. Pictures would be great. Will it work with the 16v head?


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Coolant hose routing*

I apologize if this has been covered already. I have read through this whole thread. I need to know if you need both the upper and lower hoses from a 16v passat? also can I use the coolant pipe off the aba? The coolant flange that sits below the intake, what coolant hoses are connected to it?


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## jettawolfsburg88 (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (Smccoy)*

I've done a ton of reading and research on the subject, and I just want to spur a little discussion about it here...
I'm doing a 2.0 16v head on my ABA block. I am using the 9A pistons on the ABA rods. 
At this point the compression ratio will be 9:1. The motor will be naturally aspirated for now, but I feel like this compression ratio is still a bit too low. 
If I take an ABA multi layer head gasket, and remove the shim, I have read that it bumps compression about .7:1
Making the final compression ratio ~ 9.7:1, more suitable for a naturally aspirated motor. 
The reason I want to do this, is because down the road I may feel like adding forced induction to the motor, and that way I can just swap the modified head gasket for a new one.
Any thoughts? Opinions?


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (jettawolfsburg88)*

First of all, I think you've underestimated the resulting CR, even with a non-offset 20mm wrist-pin connecting rod bushing in an ABA 21mm wrist-pin rod. 
Second, I think it would be better to either offset bore some new con rod bushings to get the 9A pistons up to the top of the ABA deck, and/or deck the ABA block a tad (say 0.020"), which could then give you the same exact CR, squish and quench geometry as a stock 9A. 
I de-layered a mulit-layered gasket about 12 years ago, and used it with some gasket sealer in the middle to bump the CR on an otherwise stock JH (8.5:1). The coolant seal wasn't quite as good as it should have been (often spat a tiny bit of coolant on cold start-up), but it never really got any worse. I only changed it out last year when installing a fresh head. Otherwise it worked well enough. 
There is a better way, though. Cometic makes head gaskets in various thicknesses, and I think they're reasonably priced (a little more than stock, but not by a whole lot). Knowing what I know now, that's the way I'd go if I really wanted to go with an alternate thickness head gasket (whether thinner OR thicker)!


_Modified by o2bad455 at 10:07 PM 1-25-2010_


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## jettawolfsburg88 (May 5, 2006)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (o2bad455)*

I'm not sure what you mean by underestimating the 9:1 compression ratio. 
How much of a loss in power would it be over lets say a stock 9A
Good point about the offset bushings, I'll look into that.
I will also look into Cometic http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (jettawolfsburg88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettawolfsburg88* »_I'm not sure what you mean by underestimating the 9:1 compression ratio. 

Assuming ABA block/rods, 9A pistons (without offset bushings), 1.5mm compressed HG, 0.7mm lower CH for 9A piston in ABA block (see http://www.not2fast.com/vw/stuff/vw_engines.shtml): 
Vcc=Vhead+Vpiston+Vdeckheight+Vgasket=49-4+(0.07+0.15)(pi)(4.125)^2=45+(2.2)(3.14)(17.02)=57
CR=(496+57)/57=9.7
So, it seems like 9:1 is an underestimate. Should be about 9.7:1 by my calc without doing anything fancy. 

_Quote, originally posted by *jettawolfsburg88* »_How much of a loss in power would it be over lets say a stock 9A

Hard to say. Stock 9A CR is supposedly 10.8:1. It's actually the loss of squish that hurts most (torque and efficiency or mpg), the loss of quench that hurts power on the ragged edge (hot spots may lead to reduced timing with knock sensor, etc.), and the actual loss of CR probably hurts least, IMHO. 
Total loss from extra deck height, I'd guesstimate about 2-3% bhp at hp peak, 4-5% lb-ft at torque peak. Of course, the longer rod ratio of the ABA/16V is still an advantage of sorts. But everything considered, I think a stock 9A would edge out an ABA/16V if the deck height (primarily squish) issue isn't fixed. 


_Modified by o2bad455 at 12:16 AM 1-26-2010_


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (o2bad455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_
Assuming ABA block/rods, 9A pistons (without offset bushings), 1.5mm compressed HG, 0.7mm lower CH for 9A piston in ABA block (see http://www.not2fast.com/vw/stuff/vw_engines.shtml): 
Vcc=Vhead+Vpiston+Vdeckheight+Vgasket=49-4+(0.07+0.15)(pi)(4.125)^2=45+(2.2)(3.14)(17.02)=57
CR=(496+57)/57=9.7
So, it seems like 9:1 is an underestimate. Should be about 9.7:1 by my calc without doing anything fancy. 

The 9A pistons have a 1.4 mm ower compression height than the correct ABF pistons. 9.2:1 is the most common compression with the ABA rod/9A piston combo with non-offset rod bushings. The 10.8:1 is advertised compression ratio and is typically 0.4-0.6 points higher than it will CC out to to compensate for production variances, carbon buildup, etc.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_The 9A pistons have a 1.4 mm ower compression height than the correct ABF pistons. 9.2:1 is the most common compression with the ABA rod/9A piston combo with non-offset rod bushings.

Thanks, I stand corrected! My source didn't list ABF, so I figured 0.7 by comparing ABA to 9A. If 1.4mm is the difference in CH versus ABF, that's certainly the more accurate number to work with.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (o2bad455)*

From Gates T-belt literature:
2000 1.8T PASSAT
Cam Drive - Camshaft Belt; W/150 Tooth Belt.................. T306
Cam Drive - Camshaft Belt; W/152 Tooth Belt.................. T291
Cam Drive - Camshaft Belt; W/153 Tooth Belt.................. T317
T306 is for all later internal waterpump 1.8T (all non-AEB)
T291/T317 are for earlier external waterpump 1.8t (AEB)
VW P/N
06B109119A................ T306
06B109119B................ T306
06B109119F................ T306
058109119A................ T291
058109119D................ T291
058109119B................ T317
058109119C................ T317


_Modified by elRey at 8:09 PM 1-29-2010_


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## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*My abf build... couple pointers?*

So here is what I've got so far:
OBD1 aba bottom end with an 1800 16valve head. The block was decked 1mm, for higher compression, and bored out to 83.5 mm to accept my supertech forged pistons. The head is brand new, never installed before now and I had it ported and polisheds with supertech valves. I have the head on the block now and am ready to put the rest together!
I haven't spared an expense on this guy ( no wonder it's taken me 2 years to get together) and want to make sure I have everything right from here on... it'll be going into my mk1 Jetta with cis basic for FI. Where it sits now it should get around 11:1 or 11.5:1 compression. just a couple questions:
I do need 16 valve fuel lines to reach?
I'm not currently going to use the speed sensor which leaves a hole in the block... is there a block off for this guy or do I just stuff a speed sensor in the hole and call it good?
What upper timing belt cover does one use here? do you need the mounting plate for the cover off of an aba for this?
Will mk1 sensors (o2, oil temp, etc). work on this guy or will regular mk3 sensors plug in with the existing system?
I milled off the crank pulley and had it balanced (with the rest of the motor). The centering ring is long gone but the belts line up beautifully. a friend of mine told the the bolts that hold it to the crank sprocket were staggered so that it can only go on one way, and that they'd center it just fine. there is definitely more than wiggle room -with the bolts through the pulley- and that worries me. should i worry or is it cool? I'd just like longevity out of this guy to some extent! Also payed $400 bucks to have the whole deal balanced, don't wanna run it out of balance because of this guy. 
When I was taking it to get milled down there was mixed reviews over making sure that you leave the centering ring there after milling. everyone said 6mm off though so I went that route and lost the ring. 
point is: is this cool or do i need to scrap that pulley and get another milled for my purposes?
Ordered complete exhaust from tt from the mani out the back and just got that! looks very nice... 2 1/4 all the way back with a high flow cat and flow master muffler so now she's really ready to go in there... 
Last, I've read the thread... trust me... I just can't seem to grasp the deal with distributor... i'm running the distributor in the 16v head. what window has to be changed out and with what donor distributor? 
Thanks!



_Modified by codyo at 9:50 PM 1-30-2010_


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (codyo)*

Well....
1. I do need 16 valve fuel lines to reach? *You can use the lines that are in the car already...*
2. I'm not currently going to use the speed sensor which leaves a hole in the block... is there a block off for this guy or do I just stuff a speed sensor in the hole and call it good? *Put a sensor in there (if its good leave the wire and plug, If its bad, just cut the wire and leave the sensor in)*
3. What upper timing belt cover does one use here? *You will need to get an ABF cover Or just dont worry about it) *
4. Do you need the mounting plate for the cover off of an aba for this? * No, it will not work*
5. Will mk1 sensors (o2, oil temp, etc). work on this guy or will regular mk3 sensors plug in with the existing system? *Use the original sensors that were on the car... Some might be 16v specific but there are alot of equivalent sensors for the same reading.. (ie plugs are different or how they thread into the engine)*
6. I milled off the crank pulley and had it balanced (with the rest of the motor). The centering ring is long gone but the belts line up beautifully. a friend of mine told the the bolts that hold it to the crank sprocket were staggered so that it can only go on one way, and that they'd center it just fine. there is definitely more than wiggle room -with the bolts through the pulley- and that worries me. should i worry or is it cool? *I dont have a ring, i went with the theory that your buddy has... somebody correct me if im wrong!*

7. Last, I've read the thread... trust me... I just can't seem to grasp the deal with distributor... i'm running the distributor in the 16v head. what window has to be changed out and with what donor distributor? *if you are using the original cis... then use the a stock 16v dist*


_Modified by Greengt1 at 1:13 PM 1-31-2010_


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (Smccoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smccoy* »_I apologize if this has been covered already. I have read through this whole thread. I need to know if you need both the upper and lower hoses from a 16v passat? also can I use the coolant pipe off the aba? The coolant flange that sits below the intake, what coolant hoses are connected to it? 

the hoses you need depend on the car the motor is currently in and what radiator you decide to use...
the coolant flange below the intake is the top radiator hose... the pipe on the aba can be uses with the right heater, and oil cooler hoses....


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (Greengt1)*

so we use the 16v sensors like oil pressure and coolant temp. and we also use a factory g60 coolant flange for the head right? and possibly passat 16v coolant hoses? let me know if this is correct so i can order the stuff up. thanks


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Coolant hose routing (98jettadub)*

and we also use a factory g60 coolant flange for the head right? *The one on the drivers side of the head.... yes (you have to turn the coolant sensor perpindicular to the head so the plug will go on it) * 
and possibly passat 16v coolant hoses? *It depends on what radiator is in the car and what car its in...* 


_Modified by Greengt1 at 2:33 PM 2-1-2010_


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (Greengt1)*

Thanks for the helpful reply! You just saved me a ton of bumping into walls








I have a stock 16v distributor... I don't need to do anything to it then besides plug it into the head?
I got the speed sensor at the junk yard yesterday! Wires are great so I think I will hold onto 'em in case I go stand-alone or something later.
Good to know about the upper cover... maybe I'll just leave it off *shrug*. The lower cover though: I picked up a 16v lower... the donor motor I got for this build didn't come as complete as one would hope though... it didn't even have the original aba plate on there. For the lower cover to go on do I gotta go pull one of these off of an aba or a 16v? Really that's about the only thing holding me back from torquing the crank bolt and such.
Glad I can use the fuel lines that are in the car, someone had told me with the bend in the neck they wouldn't work!
Thanks again, sorry if I re-asked some questions: I just crave clarification!


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (codyo)*

I have a stock 16v distributor... I don't need to do anything to it then besides plug it into the head? *Yes*

For the lower cover to go on do I gotta go pull one of these off of an aba or a 16v? * You need one from an ABA... it is somewhat taller than the 16v*


----------



## kpi103 (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (Greengt1)*

Wouldn't the lower cover of an aba be too narrow? I bought a full timing cover set from eurospec if you want/need the full set.


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (kpi103)*

thanks guys, appreciate the help! i'll go take a couple pics here in a bit and try to get em posted up too


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (codyo)*

well that's retarded... i don't know where the pictures went that i'd posted up. i'll toss a couple back up: just let me know if i'm a







and just don't see them.
i went ahead and had a centering ring put on my timing sprocket. i like the piece of mind, especially with all of the money i have into this! it looks like this:
















they really do good work where i take my stuff!
again here's some pics of the build:
























and the hot rod exhaust:


----------



## daneek155 (Apr 23, 2008)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (codyo)*

hey i was wondering if this will affect anything. i am putting a 2.0 aba in my 8v mk2. i want to buy a kit for non ac and non ps, if i decide to put a 16v head on it later down the road will that affect anything...


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (daneek155)*

Not sure exactly whay you're asking but:
I've never done an a/c delete, much less p/s delete, in a mk2. Whatever that entails, once it's done, the aba should go in there no problem. When you swap to the 16v head you'll, of course, have to do all the neccessary work/changes required.....


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: My abf build... couple pointers? (daneek155)*

ABA non AC non PC, get vr6 water pump pulley for water pump. remove AC compressor. get factory non AC belt and you are done. 
If you do a 16v head with ABA accessories you need an ABF waterneck or modified metal one.


----------



## clevebb (Feb 2, 2009)

*FV-QR*

What has been done for the high oil pressure sensor from mk3? I noticed the 9a has it right near the low pressure on top of the oil cooler.
That was a long read, but definitely worth it. 2,200 posts!!!!!!!


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*ABA/16v head spacer problem*

I have a 16v head bolted to my aba block with custom wiseco pistons. I ran into the problem with the pistons smacking the head. So I installed a kinetic head spacer to give clearance and now the timing belt won't slip on. I need help asap.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (Smccoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smccoy* »_
I have a 16v head bolted to my aba block with custom wiseco pistons. I ran into the problem with the pistons smacking the head. So I installed a kinetic head spacer to give clearance and now the timing belt won't slip on. I need help asap.









which timing belt?


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (elRey)*

The timing belt from Bahn Brenner.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (Smccoy)*

how many teeth?


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (elRey)*

Does anybody possibly have a list of part #'s for coolant hoses, for the abf, going into a mk1??


----------



## SwiftMKIII (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_how many teeth?

ABF is 151 Teeth


_Modified by SwiftMKIII at 9:06 PM 2-11-2010_


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (SwiftMKIII)*

I believe mine is 153 tooth...


----------



## SwiftMKIII (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (codyo)*

How is the 153 working for you? I've heard that they can be loose


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (SwiftMKIII)*

Seems to fit great! Only problem now is that I'm not that my valves are clearing my pistons... damnit. I didn't test with clay before assembly: I was assured that, with the valve reliefs cut extra deep in my pistons, clearance wouldn't be an issue... is it possible that I have my cams installed incorrectly here? : When I set the crank to tdc and spin the cam sprocket by hand, I encounter resistance that isn't there when it isn't otherwise set to tdc.....







*sigh* 
I installed my cams so that the dots on each sprocket face eachother........


----------



## SwiftMKIII (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (codyo)*

That one I'm not sure of. I'm still sourcing parts.
Are you running an ABA metal head gasket? They are quite a bit thicker


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (SwiftMKIII)*

Yah... hoping it's just a cam sprocket adjustment! I have a buddy that's gunna come take a look next weekend... if it's not an issue the motor's going in! Pulling the 8v on Sunday










_Modified by codyo at 8:18 AM 2-13-2010_


----------



## codyo (Oct 20, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16v head spacer problem (codyo)*

Motor came out easy! Now if I can just get the motor mount off of it!
Clearance isn't an issue either, just had to go tdc with the cams first










_Modified by codyo at 1:50 PM 2-16-2010_


----------



## vwfox6 (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (German_Muscle)*

read through all this stuff... very valuable!!! one question.... is there a difference between the 1.8 and 2.0 16v oil pump? I may have missed it somewhere, somehow... but I have an aba and a 1.8 16v.... do I just need to source the intermediate shaft?


----------



## clevebb (Feb 2, 2009)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwfox6)*

There's a pic somewhere in this thread, but they are different, they have different gears. 9A has small int shaft gear and large oil pump gear. PL has large shaft gear and small oil pump gear


----------



## vwfox6 (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (clevebb)*

So, could I run a 1.8 IM shaft and pump? Or is the 2.0 shaft required cause it's recommended to use the 2.0 pump... Now I also perused german autoparts to see if there was something different between the pumps and they sell the 2.0 oil pump as an "upgraded" option for the 1.8... i guess the whole thing I am dancing around here is, can I use the 1.8 pump with the 2.0 required shaft.... seems like if GAP is selling it to put in the 1.8 it should.....
*edit* got my answer... it will work, I think I didn't word it correctly, I was asking about 1.8 and 2.0 (both 16v) pumps being able to run off the a 2.0 16v IM shaft... not the compatibility of a 1.8 16v pump vs a 2.0 aba


_Modified by vwfox6 at 10:53 AM 2-17-2010_


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (vwfox6)*

I'm running into a problem with that the car cranks but then dies. I just replaced the battery, it has fuel and spark. I also checked compression and that's good. The one vacuum hose that runs from the brake booster to the intake is kinked and I don't have a vacuum hose connect to the factory fuel pressure regulator. Could either those be causing my problem?


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Smccoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smccoy* »_I'm running into a problem with that the car cranks but then dies. I just replaced the battery, it has fuel and spark. I also checked compression and that's good. The one vacuum hose that runs from the brake booster to the intake is kinked and I don't have a vacuum hose connect to the factory fuel pressure regulator. Could either those be causing my problem? 

what engine management?
and no to both of your answers


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Greengt1)*

I'm using the factory engine management system? Thank you greengt1 I figured those two couldn't be the problem. It also has a heavy fuel smell when cranking. It idles for a few seconds then dies.


_Modified by Smccoy at 7:31 PM 2-18-2010_


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Smccoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smccoy* »_I'm using the factory engine management system? 

factory aba obd1?


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Greengt1)*

obd2


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Smccoy)*

do you have a chip? what injectors are you using?


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (Greengt1)*

No chip and I'm using factory injectors off of my old aba engine.


----------



## Area6 (Jan 5, 2010)

If i baught the dizzy gizzy, drive sprocket and the timing belt from bahn brenner.
would i still have to remove the engine from my obd2 to get the swap to work? 
Also what else would i need as far as odd parts when if i get those parts? 
just wanted to know if i baught those 3 parts would everything be just a bolt on again no dropping oil pans and changing gears and such.
thanks in advance


_Modified by Area6 at 9:22 PM 2-19-2010_


----------



## SwiftMKIII (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: (Area6)*



Area6 said:


> If i baught the dizzy gizzy, drive sprocket and the timing belt from bahn brenner.
> would i still have to remove the engine from my obd2 to get the swap to work?
> 
> _Quote »_
> ...


----------



## Area6 (Jan 5, 2010)

no sir you just didn't read what i wrote i see the kit i'm trying to save some money. 
I asked if i purchased those 3 items would the timing be able to be set correctly. and not make me do the shaft. as long as i can run the mk3 accessories and dizzy + shaft the swap would be easier the coolant flanges and such are easy.
can anyone answer this for me.
I understand with those 3 parts the fuel rail and coolant flanges would have to be sourced that would be all correct?


----------



## 98jettadub (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: (Area6)*

does anyone have a picture of abf pistons i think that bahnbrenner sent me the wrong ones? thanks


----------



## ccmd8v (Mar 22, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (A3dOUde)*

so milling 16mm off of the block will be the same as running 16v pistons?


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ccmd8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ccmd8v* »_so milling 16mm off of the block will be the same as running 16v pistons?

i dont know where you got that idea, but if you try it you will drive your pistons through your head








i decked my aba block 70thousands of an inch and rebushed the aba rods to fit 9a pistons, this gives 11:1 comp. without buying abf pistons. if you are planning on decking the block and keeping aba pistons , forget it. you will hit the head before you make enough comp. to be worth it.


----------



## G60 CAB (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (leon whalen)*

To Leon Whalen:
I see you said that decking the ABA .070" and running 9A pistons with ABA rods will result in ~11:1 compression. Is this with a stock ABA/16v head gasket? I just want to make 100% sure this is correct before finishing the machining on my bottom end.


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (G60 CAB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60 CAB* »_To Leon Whalen:
I see you said that decking the ABA .070" and running 9A pistons with ABA rods will result in ~11:1 compression. Is this with a stock ABA/16v head gasket? I just want to make 100% sure this is correct before finishing the machining on my bottom end.


this is with aba head gasket. here in nova scotia we can only get 91 octane feul at the pump. if you have access to 93 octane where you are, you can deck your block .080'' for 12:1. i got all of my information from collin at tech.tonics and john at bahn brenner, they were very helpful when i was building both my motors.


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## G60 CAB (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (leon whalen)*

Cool I will keep this all in mind. Thanks for your help.


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## kjperry (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (G60 CAB)*

Does anybody know if the SDS EM-4 standalone system works well with an ABA 16V turbo set up? Or is Megasquirt a better way to go?


----------



## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (kjperry)*

So i just started to work on my ABA16v NA project. Today we pulled the old 1.8L 8v ACC engine from the car. Soon after that i go to take apart the block i bought a couples months back and as soon as i take the oil pan off i noticed there are no oil squirters







meaning i have a obd2 block. My question is, can i still use the block? I don't plan on going turbo anytime soon so is it that big of a deal if its a obd2 block? Another question i have is if i can run the obd2 block on obd1 2.9 management? I also bought the wiring harness from the same guy so something tells me that the wiring is obd2 as well. Any easy way to check the wiring? Thanks


----------



## DubPerfectionist (Mar 10, 2006)

Awesome thread. Just finished took me 4 nights..... I think I have the gist of everything. I have a 97 obd2 golf that I am building this with. Using bbm conversion kit and arp undercut head studs, I will be putting a 9a 2.0 that has had a gasket matched p&p job, Back cut stock valves, fully rebuilt. Will be putting HD valve springs with ti retainers and light weight camfollowers. Plan a ramhorn turbo exhuast manifold w/ tial 38 mm wastgate bolted to it, and scirocco intake( euro 50 mm if I can find one?).The bottom end is going to be stock obd2 except for high flow oil pump. 
So here are my few questions.
1) I have a set of autotech 252 intake/ 264 exhuast cams. Are these a good set of cams to run with a turbo set up. Do you think I'll have clearance issues. I will be checking clearance with clay of course.
2) what turbo should I run?Was thinking Garret t3/t4? With like 15 lbs of boost around town and 20lbs at the most at the track. Is this a good idea seeing as I have the obd2 block? Any other sugestions ?I don't want to blow it up right away. Planning on building built obd1 bottom end while running the first set up. 
3) was planning on a chip tuned obd2 motronic 5.9 until I can afford standalone. C2 probably.
Now do I run my aba throttle body with a set up like this or do I run the g60? 
4) as long as I swap the guts from my aba dizzy to my 16v dizzy. It will then work with my ecu? What else do I need to change to run motronic 5.9 with this set up.
5) whas thinking about running genesis 415 cc high impedence injectors. Are these my best choice for my set up?


----------



## eddier_22664 (Jun 3, 2008)

can i use a mark 3 tdi crank pulley for the 16v head swap on an aba motor for the serpentine setup or no or should i just spend the extra money for an crank pulley from bbm


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ghettojetta20vT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ghettojetta20vT* »_So i just started to work on my ABA16v NA project. Today we pulled the old 1.8L 8v ACC engine from the car. Soon after that i go to take apart the block i bought a couples months back and as soon as i take the oil pan off i noticed there are no oil squirters







meaning i have a obd2 block. My question is, can i still use the block? I don't plan on going turbo anytime soon so is it that big of a deal if its a obd2 block? Another question i have is if i can run the obd2 block on obd1 2.9 management? I also bought the wiring harness from the same guy so something tells me that the wiring is obd2 as well. Any easy way to check the wiring? Thanks

nothing wrong with obd 2 block... just not as lubricated savy... no big deal
im not sure on management... i am still on digi 1


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (DubPerfectionist)*

1) I have a set of autotech 252 intake/ 264 exhuast cams. Are these a good set of cams to run with a turbo set up. Do you think I'll have clearance issues. I will be checking clearance with clay of course.
*If those are stage one cams then they are fine.... you dont want to go too big on cams (can cause boost leak) correct way to fix that are internal cam gears to eliminate overlap...*
2) what turbo should I run?Was thinking Garret t3/t4? With like 15 lbs of boost around town and 20lbs at the most at the track. Is this a good idea seeing as I have the obd2 block? Any other suggestions ?I don't want to blow it up right away. Planning on building built obd1 bottom end while running the first set up. 
*As long as the boost levels are in the turbos efficiency range per cfm.. you'll be fine*
3) was planning on a chip tuned obd2 motronic 5.9 until I can afford standalone. C2 probably.
Now do I run my aba throttle body with a set up like this or do I run the g60? 
* whatever you want... as long as the tb has the sufficient sensor for management (tps)... bbm makes adapters for alot of them*
4) as long as I swap the guts from my aba dizzy to my 16v dizzy. It will then work with my ecu? What else do I need to change to run motronic 5.9 with this set up.
* yes that is correct, ABF water neck *
5) whas thinking about running genesis 415 cc high impedence injectors. Are these my best choice for my set up? 
* That is the minimum required... Injectors are based off of what chip you are running*


----------



## BlueRagTop (May 19, 2009)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (leon whalen)*

Hey Leon, I know you have explained this a million times but....
you said that you decked your ABA .070" running 9A pistons with ABA rods gives you ~11:1 compression. Is that with the 95.5 diesel crank? 
I have my ABA block at the mech shop and when I checked the piston height in relation to the block (with the 95.5 crank and re-bushed ABA rods & 9a pistons) I measured the middle of the piston sitting 10thou (0.010") below the deck. 








Before I disassembled my stock 9a I measured the middle of the piston sitting 3thou (0.003") above the deck.








If you shaved .070" off your ABA that would leave your pistons approx .060" above the deck







I don't know how thick an ABA gasket is, I only have a 16V head gasket but it measures 0.0755" out of the rapper. 
I'm just wondering, how close are the tops of the pistons coming to the head on your stroker? The 16v pistons have a raised section between the cutouts for the valves, I measured approx .022" (depending on the rocking or side to side play of the piston in the bore) above the readings from the middle of the piston above.









Put that all together and there should be contact !


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (ghettojetta20vT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ghettojetta20vT* »_So i just started to work on my ABA16v NA project. Today we pulled the old 1.8L 8v ACC engine from the car. Soon after that i go to take apart the block i bought a couples months back and as soon as i take the oil pan off i noticed there are no oil squirters







meaning i have a obd2 block. My question is, can i still use the block? I don't plan on going turbo anytime soon so is it that big of a deal if its a obd2 block? Another question i have is if i can run the obd2 block on obd1 2.9 management? I also bought the wiring harness from the same guy so something tells me that the wiring is obd2 as well. Any easy way to check the wiring? Thanks

just so you know just because it has no oil squirters doesnt mean its not obd1. lots of them didnt come with oil squirters it was mostly the earlier ones.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

We have these babies on the shelf if anyone needs one.
The dizzy gizzy and fuel rails are also back in stock.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...v_20v


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_
just so you know just because it has no oil squirters doesnt mean its not obd1. lots of them didnt come with oil squirters it was mostly the earlier ones.

so true.. i had a 94 block with no squirters


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*Re: Chip for N/A OBD2 M5.9 (BlueRagTop)*

hey blueragtop, sorry for the confusion. i did not deck my stroker. the longer stroke gives more comp. even though the piston sits lower at tdc. i decked my first aba16v that was not a stroker. i think this might be the cause of your confusion. so to clearify: aba crank, rods & block (decked 70 thow) plus 9a pistons & head = 11:1 comp. piston should be between 28 & 30 thow proud. with a stroker you dont need to deck the block because the longer stroke squishes more air.....good luck with your build. please keep me posted on your progress, i love to hear about more aba16vs.


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## BlueRagTop (May 19, 2009)

Clear as mud, thanks Leon. 

I just got my ABA block back from the Mech, he said I had to take 5 thou off the deck because it was 4 thou out....so i figured why not take an even 10 thou total. 
So the pistons are sitting 3 thou below the deck (which is pretty much even) 
According to the not2fast calculator this head, pistion & block combo should be close to 11.48 static CR (trapped 10.08cr). I have a pair of 262 Cat cams that might change that a little but should be fun to drive !!


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## Area6 (Jan 5, 2010)

This should be a easy one.
I read the. Parts list and I have a few question on parts.
This is going into a n/a jetta obd2

Can I run on stock management when I first swap.?
Can I use stock a stock 16v or aba fuel rail? Stock 16v or aba injectors?
If I buy the bbm dizzzy gizzy do I still need the 16v dist? After this om diving in


----------



## Autoboost-tech (Dec 27, 2009)

there is a lot of talk about custom pulleys or machining pulleys for ABA serp fitment, "there is another option", I built my ABF back in 1996 and didn't have the luxury of anyone ever doing it before, in fact I was told it couldn't be done after I had already been running for months, what I did with the pulley was compress it on a brake lathe using the dies to support the outer side, "inside the rib lip" and one for the inner hub than cranked it down until it lined up, I suppose it could be done in a press as well, it works perfect and have been running it all these years on the same belt, you need to have dies to not press on the outer lip for the ribs, find something that fits just inside the outer lip and the pulley will compress fine, use a flat surface or bolt to harmonic balance so it doesn't get wobble pressed into it, that's why I used the brake lathe the arbor keeps everything strait! press or crank it the needed mm and then check it, I had to crank it a little further, it springs back some after releasing, just take it slow and you will be fine, thought you all might like this option instead of expensive custom pulley or machining that needs a washer to re align the center, also making it thinner and weaker. 

PS: stock rods wont hold much more than 28psi, I blew one at 33psi, it was unintentional, you can read my build in the forced induction (16v twin charged) thread if interested. 

thanks and have fun!


----------



## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

ok so ive read omg a toooooon of this thread and have a few questions

so i have a complete 9a and a complete obd2 aba

im building a turbo setup for my audi 4000quattro


i saw somewhere a link/thread that had all the compression combinations for these motor hybrids.


so what combination or rods pistons etc do i want to use

the block is an obd2 i have a forged stroker crank coming and will be machingin for oil squirters.

options?


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

also what IM shaft do i want to use


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

JediKGB said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_
> how can you tell if you have oil squirters? I assume its something you can see when disassembling the block, what do they look like?
> did they come on all OBDI blocks?
> My block is from a 93 jetta.
> ...


got a PN for those squirters?


----------



## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

well i got my engine back from the machine shop and looks great. The problem im having is removing the drum from the aba distributor so i can swap it into the 16v one. Also the damn pin on the 16v distributor is not coming out. How are you guys able to do this? Seems like the drum is glued on or something? I really don't want to force it and damage it. Also is it possible to run stock aba management without a chip?


----------



## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Car cranks, starts then dies*

I'm running into a problem with that the car cranks, starts but then dies. I just replaced the battery, it has fuel and spark. I also checked compression and that's good. I'm using factory injectors from my old obd2 aba block and using the factory fuel pump. Could it be that I'm not getting enough fuel to the engine?


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*wrist pin bushings*

does any one have the vw part number for the 20mm wrist pin bushings.


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## mquevedo (Dec 13, 2007)

Just read through the entire thread... page 22ish everything started to blend together... I re-read a few pages... I STILL didnt find my answer... I have a ABA 16v running on 8v digi2. I have no idea where i got the tb im currently using from but it took a **** a couple of weeks ago so my car has been parked at some random street. . . lame. I have been trying to figure out which TB i have but ive had absolutely no luck. Can anyone identify this TB? I need it to have the nipple for the fpr hose and i need to be able to swap the tps with mine. Thanks Vortex



















Please excuse the pics... Ones upside down and the other is ghetto rigged. However, looks way better now!-


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

Smccoy said:


> I'm running into a problem with that the car cranks, starts but then dies. I just replaced the battery, it has fuel and spark. I also checked compression and that's good. I'm using factory injectors from my old obd2 aba block and using the factory fuel pump. Could it be that I'm not getting enough fuel to the engine?


dont know if that is ok... is it turbo? 
what management are you using?
what distributor?




mquevedo said:


> Just read through the entire thread... page 22ish everything started to blend together... I re-read a few pages... I STILL didnt find my answer... I have a ABA 16v running on 8v digi2. I have no idea where i got the tb im currently using from but it took a **** a couple of weeks ago so my car has been parked at some random street. . . lame. I have been trying to figure out which TB i have but ive had absolutely no luck. Can anyone identify this TB? I need it to have the nipple for the fpr hose and i need to be able to swap the tps with mine. Thanks Vortex


Passat tb... make sure the vacuum port is on the back side of the butterfly


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## mquevedo (Dec 13, 2007)

^^^ thanks brotha, I figured as much. I actually got one ordered. I went according to the master list and got an automatic passat tb... Turns out it was the wrong one. Who knows, there could be different versions of the auto passat tb.. I have however, sent this pic to everyone selling a tb on here but nobody seems to have one!!!!!


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## brosef (Mar 10, 2008)

Hey guys, has anyone used the Mk2 1800 16V (European Mod. ONLY) Samco coolant hose kit for this conversion:

http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/...volkswagen-golf-gti-mk2-1800-16v-p-15075.html

I know only 3 hoses are different, so I'm trying to see if there's a way I can fit these babies in there with the mk3 radiator... opcorn:


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## 01 (Sep 9, 2009)

sorry for asking dumb questions, i have read alot and just want some basic info.

im trying to build an ABA/16v Hybrid, High Compression, Weber Carbs. most the info here is for people planning on keeping both the intake manifolds and the injection..

1. should i keep the aba dist, or keep the 16v dist, from my understanding the aba dist can stay but i would need longer wires, or i can block off the aba dist and keep the 16v dist, but use the aba dist internals... ?

if i block off the aba dist i need to get the bbm kit, or new shaft and all right, seems best to keep the aba dist.. help 

2. if i keep the aba dist and all i can keep the normal oil pump/water pump setup right?

3. for a better n/a comp ratio i would want ABF pistons right?..

4. i would need a wider pully to run the 16v timing belt setup right.

5. what else am i missing?, like i said most info here is for a different sort of build


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## Mr.Allinder (Feb 4, 2010)

Can someone please explain how to swap the 1 window from the aba distributor into the 16v distributor? I know this has to be done, can't find anything that states how to do this!
Thanks


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## dumpedmk3 (Nov 4, 2008)

I just read all 56 pages. Interesting. 

What's the gas mileage like on a NA using 1.8 head, and 9A pistons?

Also I read you have to make a frankenstein TPS using the auto passat TB. Any pics/info on this? Do you have to mod the G60 TPS?


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## One8Estate (Apr 6, 2009)

ive been reading the thread, page 17 i believe, but i want to know if its worth building this motor (as NA) over rebuilding a 9a with similar high compression...? it would be going in an A2 coupe.. 

thanks for the help :thumbup:


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

01 said:


> sorry for asking dumb questions, i have read alot and just want some basic info.
> 
> 1. should i keep the aba dist, or keep the 16v dist, from my understanding the aba dist can stay but i would need longer wires, or i can block off the aba dist and keep the 16v dist, but use the aba dist internals... ?
> 
> ...



1. should i keep the aba dist, or keep the 16v dist, from my understanding the aba dist can stay but i would need longer wires, or i can block off the aba dist and keep the 16v dist, but use the aba dist internals... 

if i block off the aba dist i need to get the bbm kit, or new shaft and all right, seems best to keep the aba dist.. help 

*ABA dist most likely get in the way of the carbs... so i would suggest going the 16v way..*

2. if i keep the aba dist and all i can keep the normal oil pump/water pump setup right?

*Yes, you have to get a cover and im shaft drive from a 16v to use in the block*

3. for a better n/a comp ratio i would want ABF pistons right?..

*Yup*

4. i would need a wider pully to run the 16v timing belt setup right. 

*you need the cam, tensioner, and crank pulley from a 16v*

5. what else am i missing?, like i said most info here is for a different sort of build


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## tunethtmkII (Jun 27, 2009)

so if i run na with just the aba pistons. it will run but run like ****?


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## jungle (May 6, 2002)

anyone have a source on the stock cast ABF pistons? The only ones I have been able to track down are 83mm bore (which is a 20 over bore). 

Does anyone have any dyno charts? I would be real curious to see what the NA versions are putting out.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*headgaskets and locating dowels*



German_Muscle said:


> Headgasket: ABA or 2.0L 16v


 This should be revisited. Which head-gasket is really "better" for an ABA/16V (disregarding cost and availability for now, since either MLS gasket is still obtainable from Reinz in stock thickness, or can be ordered from Cometic in various thicknesses). Many of the coolant passages in the gaskets are sized differently between the ABA and 16V gaskets, and my guess is that they're sized according to the needs of the HEAD. There's also one coolant passage at the front of cylinder #4 that's actually moved between the two gaskets, although the 16V head does have a previously unused opening in the casting to make use of the ABA gasket. 

Unlike all 8V heads (including the 2L 8V ABA), the 16V heads were all positively located on the earlier pre-ABA blocks. The 1.8 16V head PL head used dowel pins located behind cylinders #1 (I'll call this pin A) and #4 (I'll call this pin C) on 1.8L blocks. The position of the driver's side dowel moved closer to cylinder #3 (I'll call this pin B) when VW went from 1.8 16V PL to 2.0 16V 9A, but all dowel pins and corresponding head holes were the same size (I'll call this medium at about 0.230"). Although the 2.0L 16V 9A head has holes in all 3 positions (so it gets properly located on either 9A or PL blocks using appropriate gasket for block), the 1.8L 16V PL head lacks any hole in the newer B position, but this is just behind the deck surface of the head. When a 1.8L 16V head is installed on a 2.0L 16V 9A block, the medium sized 9A pin just clears the back of the PL head. 

Unfortunately, the same is not true when mounting the PL or 9A 16V heads on the ABA block with larger (about 0.310") driver's side dowel B. This is probably why folks generally either grind an angle on the large ABA pin to clear the back of the PL head, or remove it completely to clear the 9A head. Thus, the driver's side end of the 16V head does not end up located anywhere near as well as VW intended. In addition, the small (about 0.150") ABA pin at the passenger side of the ABA block has too much slop in the medium 16V head hole to fully locate the passenger side of the 16V head onto the ABA block. 

The accurate location of the gasket relative to the block is most important (thus, two dowels should match the gasket), especially with MLS gaskets that can otherwise "walk" a little under hard use, but the accurate location of the 16V head relative to the gasket, block and pistons is also important (as evidenced at least by VW itself making the extra effort with the 16V head). 

1) To solve this issue (in my case, ABA head gasket failed between #3 and #4 in a high-boost turbo application, and took out a very nicely rebuilt 16V head with it), I thought about swapping both medium pins from an earlier block (e.g., 9A or any old 1.8L) in place of the small pin A and large pin B in the ABA block. Although this should work for a 9A head using 2L 16V 9A gasket since the actual holes in the ABA block are really medium (underneath the small and larre pin tops), this still wouldn't properly locate a PL head, which uses holes A and C. Anyone have a better solution for the PL head? I already have both new ABA and 9A/3A MLS (4 metal layer) head-gaskets, so that isn't a current issue (although the all-metal version of the 9A/3A gasket is definitely getting harder to find). 

2) I also considered boring hole B in a 2L 9A head out to the correct size for the large ABA pin, and perhaps filling and re-drilling hole A in the 9A for the small ABA pin and using the ABA gasket. Unfortunately, nothing like this would really work properly for the PL head since the pin C holes are off in both 2L gaskets. 

3) Maybe the best and most universal solution is just to remove (by tapping up and out, or grinding flush) the large ABA pin B, and find another way to positively locate the gasket and head to the block. It seems like I used something like hollow dowels in two oil returns when building a 1.7L race engine years ago, but I can't quite remember now. This could use either head-gasket. 

EDIT: They were called "hollow cylinder head alignment dowel pins" and they went into the two rear oil return holes and stayed there after assembly (unlike the cut/slotted head bolts that were just for assembly). I got them from Techtonics Tuning a long time ago. It's now after hours so I couldn't call, but they're no longer listed in the TT catalog. Anyone know where else to get them, or would they have to be custom made? 

EDIT: I just took some measurements. The 2 rear oil drains where I'd like to add hollow locating dowels are about 0.580" on 9A 16V and ABA 8V cross-flow blocks as well as 9A and PL 16V heads, versus about 0.560" on older counter-flow blocks. I thought about using the hollow dowels from the engine to trans bell-housing, but they seem too big at about 0.620". 

INTERIM SOLUTION: Okay, my solution (at least until next time) is medium pins from an older block in both holes A and B of the ABA block, MLS 2L 16V 9A/3A gasket, and necessarily using only 2L 16V 9A cylinder head (since PL head lacks position B hole). The MLS 16V gasket is a stock replacement from Reinz with part number 61-29305-00 on package front, and 048103383B followed by HD GSKT 80/90 (i.e. Audi 80/90 3A engine) on package back. I think it has the same pattern and openings as the more common composite gasket for the 2L 16V 9A. To use the 1.8 PL head instead, or to be able to use either 2L head-gasket, I think the best solution would be removing the stock ABA pins (or at least the big pin B) and using the 2 hollow dowels for the rear oil returns (if we can find them with OD around 0.580").


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

i know what an injector is but whats an injector cup? read that you need it to use the stock injectors but why the hell would you wanna do that? if your going n/a you want bigger cams which means bigger injectors. if you go boost you want bigger injectors as well. i dont see the point unless you want a stock like 16v.


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

also im a little confused with the pully talk going on. you DO or you DONT need a new crank pully, serp pully, int. shaft for this conversion assuming your trying to retain all your aba acc. couldnt you just use the pullys off a 16v and call it a day? i dont understand why you would grind down the aba pully instead of doing this.


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

if you get the BBM 16v head swap conversion kit...do you really only need the 16v distributer, intake mani, exhaust mani, and the gaskets? seems to easy. also read that you can use the motronic aba ecu if you get a custom chip for this conversion. where do you get a custom ship for this particular job?


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

docterelliott said:


> i know what an injector is but whats an injector cup? read that you need it to use the stock injectors but why the hell would you wanna do that? if your going n/a you want bigger cams which means bigger injectors. if you go boost you want bigger injectors as well. i dont see the point unless you want a stock like 16v.


 *Injector cup is the insert that screws into the intake manifold to properly seal the injector to the intake... 

When they say stock injectors when going n/a they mean you can use the g60 stock injectors, which are dark green tops, 24# each. 
* 



docterelliott said:


> also im a little confused with the pully talk going on. you DO or you DONT need a new crank pully, serp pully, int. shaft for this conversion assuming your trying to retain all your aba acc. couldnt you just use the pullys off a 16v and call it a day? i dont understand why you would grind down the aba pully instead of doing this.


 *You do need an new crank pulley when converting the aba block to a 16v... The timing belt for the 16v is totally different from the much narrower 8v one.. 

With the new 16v pulley on the crank, IF you want to use the serpentine setup that was originally on the 8v block, you have to shave the harmonic balancer down to compensate for the difference in the thickness of the timing belt pulley... for everything to still line up... Other than that you can use all of the 16v v belt setup... BUT believe me when I say, v belts and turbo don't go!* 



docterelliott said:


> if you get the BBM 16v head swap conversion kit...do you really only need the 16v distributer, intake mani, exhaust mani, and the gaskets? seems to easy. also read that you can use the motronic aba ecu if you get a custom chip for this conversion. where do you get a custom ship for this particular job?


 *I am not 100% sure but for the cost,...... I can believe it..*


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

oh gotchya. kool thank you. also do you happen to know what size injectors you would need for a 276 intake cam and you would still need the injector cups for those right?


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

injectors depend on if you're going n/a or turbo... and what management you are running....


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

if you are going NA then use the aba injectors and yes you need the cups for them. you unscrew the brass cups out of the 16v lower intake and replace them with cups from a 90 -92 8v.


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## staticdrop (Mar 5, 2010)

either im just tired, or i missed something, ive been looking into this, if im swapping into a mk2 which harness do i use?


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## 84GLIRacer (Feb 10, 2008)

Seems pretty straight forward the swap, I thought I read this somewhere, if you do an ABA 16v combo, in a MK1 is there clearance issues , TB or mani hitting the bonnet


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## tunethtmkII (Jun 27, 2009)

if you used aba pistons on a NA setup. could you maybe stack headgaskets for a better compression ratio? i dont know about compression ratios. someone teach me quick?


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## photomo (Jan 29, 2008)

tunethtmkII said:


> if you used aba pistons on a NA setup. could you maybe stack headgaskets for a better compression ratio? i dont know about compression ratios. someone teach me quick?


 if you stack the gaskets it will lower your compression. to raise the compression you will either need new pistons or shave the head 
stock 9a pistons will give you roughly 9:1 
abf pistons will give you 10:1 
bahn brenner and techtonics both sell the abf pistons i believe


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## rayblais (Nov 1, 2006)

what water neck do i need to run the aba obd2 cts? off a digi 2 8v does it bolt up?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

rayblais said:


> what water neck do i need to run the aba obd2 cts? off a digi 2 8v does it bolt up?


http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/1445/Coolant_Flange_W_Sensor_Output


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## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

digi2


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## rayblais (Nov 1, 2006)

having a few problems with my abfT, first some background info. Im running a stock 16v head, aba (OBDII), 16v oil pump and IM shaft, with a 16v dizzy single window pick up installed, with a gt2871RS. all of this went into a 1991 audi 80q (pics below). the cars starts but not when the fuel pump is actually running. i can turn it on for a few seconds then off and fire the engine up it will run for a min or so with NO fuel pump running as soon as turn it on while its running the engine dies out. i am running new fuel lines and a new 044 bosh fuel pump and have also tried a few fpr's.


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## rayblais (Nov 1, 2006)

found the problem my timing was off due to an improper hall window placement.


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## USSR92 (May 26, 2009)

ok i am in the pa{philly} area. i have a 92 gti with a 2.0aba from a 97 jetta... i have a spare 2.0 16v engine with head and everything.....how much would someone charge to put the 16v head on my aba and have it running good, i am planning on boosting it down the road.


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## Th3GreatOne (Aug 30, 2006)

quick questions guys. Building ABA/16v...almost ready to get the engine under the hood. Two things I need before tho. 
Timing belt. First page read 16v belt of 1.8T 150 tooth.

BB sell a ABA/16v conversion timing belt for $49.99
They claim its the same length as the ABF one. Therefore I have seen a ABF belt on ebay.de and it was 151 tooth. So I'm not sure if the 1.8T will do the thing. Any running that?

Second thing is the belt cover. I've seen ABF cover setup for $100. Is there any other solution around?

Thanks!


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## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

Th3GreatOne said:


> quick questions guys. Building ABA/16v...almost ready to get the engine under the hood. Two things I need before tho.
> Timing belt. First page read 16v belt of 1.8T 150 tooth.
> 
> BB sell a ABA/16v conversion timing belt for $49.99
> ...


 abf 151 or 1.8t... either are good... 16v oem is too short.. 
dont know about the covers, is use 16v bottom and no top..


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## Th3GreatOne (Aug 30, 2006)

151 or 150 tooth wont make any difference? 
Thats the thing I am worried about.


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

OK, 
This is my 5th time I try to read through this! 

A lot of good information, but JEEZ *57 pages ???* 
You have to spend almost a week to find exact information through this thread!!! 

Someone please shoot this monster! 

I've been wrenching in W/C VW's since 1981, and I have to say that I do need information from others to reach my building goals (ie ABF clone with tdi crank with 8.67 dynamic compression calculated with Schrick's 276's for 93-94 pump gas on DCOE's 45's...) 

Now, someone do something about this ridiculous 57 pages sticky!!! 

/rant


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

no pics but it is the basic components 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-for-OBD1-16v-aba-2.0-(low-compression-8.5-1)


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## Sr. Karmann (Feb 5, 2009)

I still need to read all the pages of this thread as I am about to build an ABF clone, but under extensive research, found this...

_ABA has bigger wrist pins (21mm instead of the 16vs 20mm) so fitting the factory 16v pistons means rebushing the rods. The deck-height/rod length change was 1mm off. The rods for 15mm longer, the block is 16mm taller. This means that if you have the rods re-bushed on the standard center to *use the 2L 16v pistons your CR is about 10:1 *as the piston will be about 1mm down in the bore. People who do it this way usually bush the rods shorter about 1mm. Puts you at about 9.4:1. 
_

INFO FOUND HERE

My question is 9.0, 9.4 or 10.1??? 

Going to be shooting for 9:1 and going mild boost, possibly my G60, but been thinking of going turbo, would someone care to chime in, please.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Sr. Karmann said:


> I still need to read all the pages of this thread as I am about to build an ABF clone, but under extensive research, found this...
> 
> _ABA has bigger wrist pins (21mm instead of the 16vs 20mm) so fitting the factory 16v pistons means rebushing the rods. The deck-height/rod length change was 1mm off. The rods for 15mm longer, the block is 16mm taller. This means that if you have the rods re-bushed on the standard center to *use the 2L 16v pistons your CR is about 10:1 *as the piston will be about 1mm down in the bore. People who do it this way usually bush the rods shorter about 1mm. Puts you at about 9.4:1.
> _
> ...


 I think they meant the correct ABF pistons (which are really 10.5:1 advertised) or 9A pistons in a 220 mm block (they are 10.8:1 advertised), 9A pistons on rebushed rods yield a true 9.2:1


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## Sr. Karmann (Feb 5, 2009)

vwpat said:


> I think they meant the correct ABF pistons (which are really 10.5:1 advertised) or 9A pistons in a 220 mm block (they are 10.8:1 advertised), 9A pistons on rebushed rods yield a true 9.2:1


Never referenced ABF, but... 

Please let me know how you came up with 9.2 (calculation method) and whether you had the pistons re-bushed on rod center or dropped the 1mm :beer:

My target is not over 9.0

And if what information differs from the first page thru the thread, is it being edited as such?

Thanks guys, looking to be a part of the 16v fam pretty soon :beer::beer:


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Sr. Karmann said:


> Never referenced ABF, but...
> 
> Please let me know how you came up with 9.2 (calculation method) and whether you had the pistons re-bushed on rod center or dropped the 1mm :beer:
> 
> ...


I guess he was talking about 9As. I have never measured it but knowledgable people have on here. Normally rebushed on centre but you can off set them (up, they are already 1 mm lower) but that always concerned me. Use the 9As and offset the bushings down or get a slightly thicker headgasket. huh?


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## Sr. Karmann (Feb 5, 2009)

vwpat said:


> I guess he was talking about 9As. I have never measured it but knowledgable people have on here. Normally rebushed on centre but you can off set them (up, they are already 1 mm lower) but that always concerned me. Use the 9As and offset the bushings down or get a slightly thicker headgasket. huh?


the pistons would be sitting 2mm lower if I re-bush for the wrist pins at 1mm lower, from what this guy is saying. Which would lower the CR. I have been reading thru the first couple pages and people are all over the place on CR's :banghead:

Saw where BFI has variable thicknesses on head gaskets, but don't really want to buy an ABA just to find out I need something thicker for 3 times the price


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Sr. Karmann said:


> the pistons would be sitting 2mm lower if I re-bush for the wrist pins at 1mm lower, from what this guy is saying. Which would lower the CR. I have been reading thru the first couple pages and people are all over the place on CR's :banghead:
> 
> Saw where BFI has variable thicknesses on head gaskets, but don't really want to buy an ABA just to find out I need something thicker for 3 times the price


 correct, correct (too much IMHO). There should not be that much variation, ABAs are low 8s:1, 9As are 9.2:1 I would use the ABA gasket and if needed open the combustion chamber a little.


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## Sr. Karmann (Feb 5, 2009)

vwpat said:


> correct, correct (too much IMHO). There should not be that much variation, ABAs are low 8s:1, 9As are 9.2:1 I would use the ABA gasket and if needed open the combustion chamber a little.


:thumbup:


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## Sr. Karmann (Feb 5, 2009)

I'm sorry, but this thread should not be a sticky, very misleading information and some of it just plain wrong/incomplete to boot, going 9a 16v :beer:

You guys have fun tho :thumbup:


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## SwiftMKIII (Dec 13, 2006)

Here is an almost complete list of parts needed. I did a BBM charged setup. Some times may not be needed for a NA or Turbo setup.

16v Parts List
-Complete 16v head with all gaskets - 1.8 or 2.0 (1.8 is better) 
-Adjustable 16v cam gear (taller block changes tdc a few degrees) 
-ABA metal head gasket
 -16v exhaust manifold  with hardware
-16v head studs
 -16V intake manifold w/ cold start rail machined off and tapped for iat sensor
 -BBM 16v fuel rail w/ fpr 
 -Digi injector cups
 -injectors  for tune
-16v plug wires
 -NGK BKR7 Spark plugs (for FI, these work great)
 -Modified 16v distributor 
 -BBM 16v throttle body adaptor
-3" hose adaptor
 -Intercooler and piping 
-Turbo or BBM mk3 supercharger kit w/ cast outlet 
-ABF timing belt 
-16v timing belt tensioner 
-16v crank gear
 -Modified 16v im shaft gear (BBM) 
-BBM dizzy gizzy or modified ABA dizzy)
 -Modified crank pulley  (6mm machined off stock ABA pulley)
-NEW crank bolt 
 -ARP Rod bolts (if changing pistons) 
-9a pistons with rebushed rods for mild boost, ABA pistons for high boost(15+ psi)
 -BBM front coolant flange (for BBM Charger or short runer) or ABF flange
 -BBM side coolant flange (Digi)
 -TT breather Block off plate
 -16v mid coolant hose (oil cooler to water pump and head, cut to fit)
-16v upper heater hose 
-16v Passat Coolant hose (with overflow line to coolant bubble)
 -16v coolant sensor (the one thats in the head) 
-New Beetle valve cover breather


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## JuniorWhalen (May 15, 2008)

Alright, so i have been running an aba 16v (on aba management) in my mk2 for 6 months and i cant seem to get my distributer timed... my father has built two aba 16v's, one a stroker and just plays wth the distributer until the 4000 rpm surge goes away, i am just wondering if there is an easier way, like a certain # of degrees to turn the hal or # of teeth, i am running an aba dist. pick-up, thanks


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## Sr. Karmann (Feb 5, 2009)

JuniorWhalen said:


> Alright, so i have been running an aba 16v (on aba management) in my mk2 for 6 months and i cant seem to get my distributer timed... my father has built two aba 16v's, one a stroker and just plays wth the distributer until the 4000 rpm surge goes away, i am just wondering if there is an easier way, like a certain # of degrees to turn the hal or # of teeth, i am running an aba dist. pick-up, thanks


timing light


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## SwiftMKIII (Dec 13, 2006)

> Alright, so i have been running an aba 16v (on aba management) in my mk2 for 6 months and i cant seem to get my distributer timed... my father has built two aba 16v's, one a stroker and just plays wth the distributer until the 4000 rpm surge goes away, i am just wondering if there is an easier way, like a certain # of degrees to turn the hal or # of teeth, i am running an aba dist. pick-up, thanks


Not sure with the ABA dizzy. 

I built a "custom" 9a dizzy with the one window Hall Sendor from an ABA dizzy in place of the CIS 4 window. With ABA management, the ignition timing is controlled by the computer, so you'll be hard pressed to adjust it much, if at all.


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## JuniorWhalen (May 15, 2008)

i knew that once timed i cant adjust it, i am just wondering if there is a certain # of teeth or degrees i should offset the window from the pick-up when i put my single window hal in the 16v dist. ...


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## SwiftMKIII (Dec 13, 2006)

JuniorWhalen said:


> i knew that once timed i cant adjust it, i am just wondering if there is a certain # of teeth or degrees i should offset the window from the pick-up when i put my single window hal in the 16v dist. ...


I just took pics of a complete ABA dizzy and eyeballed the one-window as closely as possible. Then the ECU can handle any minimal offset. If you get a Cam Position sensor ECU code, it is too far off.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

JuniorWhalen said:


> i knew that once timed i cant adjust it, i am just wondering if there is a certain # of teeth or degrees i should offset the window from the pick-up when i put my single window hal in the 16v dist. ...


http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/guides/dizzywindow.gif


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## JuniorWhalen (May 15, 2008)

thanks for the link and the info, my mother has an aba so i might pop the cap off of that as a reference and see what i can come up with, and way to test the dist. pick-up to make sure it's good?


----------



## vdub6v (Apr 22, 2004)

Glad I found this post 

I'd like to build an NA 16v ABA, I have a 2.0L 16v and an OBD1 ABA 

Can I use the 16v pistons in the ABA or do I need to order ABF piston for an NA motor?


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

vdub6v said:


> Glad I found this post
> 
> I'd like to build an NA 16v ABA, I have a 2.0L 16v and an OBD1 ABA
> 
> Can I use the 16v pistons in the ABA or do I need to order ABF piston for an NA motor?


you can use the 2.0L 16v pistons but you need to rebush the aba rods to fit the 16v wrist pins.
if you are going NA you should also deck your aba block, to up the comp.


----------



## wayupnorth16vt (Dec 15, 2010)

sorry no time to search thread...are valve reliefs necessary when running stock 16v head on an aba with stock aba gasket and pistons set my mind at ease haha


----------



## Afalloftime (Jan 5, 2011)

This thread is a monster. I'm new at this but I'm wanting to do the 16v head swap in my 95 golf. Maybe someone needs to break this thread down into specific situations or has it already been done? I'm wanting to build a motor for my golf then drop it in, turboed aba w/ 16v head has anyone listed a parts list and or guide for that set up?


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Afalloftime said:


> This thread is a monster. I'm new at this but I'm wanting to do the 16v head swap in my 95 golf. Maybe someone needs to break this thread down into specific situations or has it already been done? I'm wanting to build a motor for my golf then drop it in, turboed aba w/ 16v head has anyone listed a parts list and or guide for that set up?


 notes 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5143274-The-how-to-16v-my-ABA


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## wolfyy98 (Aug 28, 2008)

im looking for some help.

I came across an aba 8v block with a 16v head for sale and have been considering buying it since it comes with the basic hardware for a turbo kit. I currently have an aba in my golf but have been considering the aba/16v hybrid swap. I would finish building this motor i found with parts from my stock motor and other necessary parts to complete the swap. The seller claims that the 16V head is totally rebuilt with new seals valve etc. Has MAHL low com pistons, shot pinned connecting rods and a lightened crank. Are these stock aba or stock 9a pistons? Or some performance pistons?


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## tunethtmkII (Jun 27, 2009)

wolfyy98 said:


> im looking for some help.
> 
> I came across an aba 8v block with a 16v head for sale and have been considering buying it since it comes with the basic hardware for a turbo kit. I currently have an aba in my golf but have been considering the aba/16v hybrid swap. I would finish building this motor i found with parts from my stock motor and other necessary parts to complete the swap. The seller claims that the 16V head is totally rebuilt with new seals valve etc. Has MAHL low com pistons, shot pinned connecting rods and a lightened crank. Are these stock aba or stock 9a pistons? Or some performance pistons?


well, since thy're low compression your probally going to want to run forced induction. and if there low comp. aba piston, that would be super low compression for a 16v hybrid motor.


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## yoderz (Aug 1, 2009)

i just started my build, i am using aba obd1 block, forged crank, aba rods and aba pistons with a 2.0l 16v head, compression ratio is 8-1 correct?


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## 89'mk3gti (Oct 5, 2010)

Bahn brenner makes a kit for it yes they do.. dont know number off top of my head but check it out its everything you need


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## wayupnorth16vt (Dec 15, 2010)

anyone ever lost a timing belt at idle with alll stock aba bottom and stock 16v head?


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## unknowable (Apr 10, 2011)

*???*

I thought this project would be simple, but it doesnt seem that way at all.. Just looking at the 9A makes me feel like there is a lot more to this monster of a project than it seems.

Fuel management is different... connections are different..

Looks like you would need a different computer... Im baffled.


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## soso3k (Mar 14, 2011)

JBETZ said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Thanks for the info, but doesn't the aba flange have 2 outlet/inlets and not just the one that goes to the heater core. Do I just block off the old inlet and run just the heater part of it?
> 
> You can use our coolant flange and block for the ecu coolant sensor.
> Then you can use the screw in style for the coolant gauge sensor.
> This part screws into the side of the head.


im having trouble with this can you clear it up for me?


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## Blens (Sep 14, 2010)

Anyone know where to find the aba distributor block off? Can't seem to find it anywhere anymore


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## soso3k (Mar 14, 2011)

Blens said:


> Anyone know where to find the aba distributor block off? Can't seem to find it anywhere anymore


www.bahnbrenner.com they have all your needs as long as you dont need a flange adapter for a odb2 coolant flange


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

So i have some new info, The 1.8 V I'M shaft and oil pump gear will work in the ABA block. You still need to use the 2.0 V block of cap. but it fits turns and works grate. 
The only difference is the the oil pump gear is smaller and the IM shaft gear is bigger on the 1.8
The bearings on the IM shaft are the same on all, 9A, ABA, PL. 
Any questions let me know. I am running this set up right now and its fine. Oil pressure is grate


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

Jones84 said:


> So i have some new info, The 1.8 V I'M shaft and oil pump gear will work in the ABA block. You still need to use the 2.0 V block of cap. but it fits turns and works grate.
> The only difference is the the oil pump gear is smaller and the IM shaft gear is bigger on the 1.8
> The bearings on the IM shaft are the same on all, 9A, ABA, PL.
> Any questions let me know. I am running this set up right now and its fine. Oil pressure is grate


I'm glad that's working for you, but the 1.8 IM shaft doesn't usually work with the 2.0 crank unless you shave the IM shaft gear so it clears the con rod. Are you using stock rods?


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

o2bad455 said:


> I'm glad that's working for you, but the 1.8 IM shaft doesn't usually work with the 2.0 crank unless you shave the IM shaft gear so it clears the con rod. Are you using stock rods?


yes i am, so you are saying that the im gear hits the rod?? 
as far as i know its not hiting it. i will check it just to make sure..


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

o2bad455 said:


> I'm glad that's working for you, but the 1.8 IM shaft doesn't usually work with the 2.0 crank unless you shave the IM shaft gear so it clears the con rod. Are you using stock rods?


You were right, The #4 rod did hit the IM shat gear, i checked it. So what i did was take a file and shave the rod just a bit so it would not hit any more. Somthing else i did notice was that the #4 rod comes verry close to hitting the oil pump, The aba oil pump has bigger gears in it and is taperd down were the rod goes by, so i shaved it down a little too. 
Wondering if any one else has seen how close it comes??


----------



## mk1_cabriolet (Jul 16, 2009)

*wait...*

Hold on a sec. guys....

Right now...I have a 2.0 8v block complete....and my engine that I just pulled out of my GLI is a 1.8 16v.... Are you guys saying I dont have to go BBM for parts? If thats the case that would save me tons of money. Should my 1.8 16v block parts swap over to the 2.0? 

Oil Pump
Intermediate Shaft and Drive gear

Am I missing anything else here on compatibility? :banghead:


----------



## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

mk1_cabriolet said:


> Hold on a sec. guys....
> 
> Right now...I have a 2.0 8v block complete....and my engine that I just pulled out of my GLI is a 1.8 16v.... Are you guys saying I don't have to go BBM for parts? If thats the case that would save me tons of money. Should my 1.8 16v block parts swap over to the 2.0?
> 
> ...


You would still need the 2.0 distro block off, the 1.8 is to small. The 1.8 oil pump will work its the same as the 2.0 i have been told that 2.0 is better, I have taken both apart and i see no difference between the 2.
If you use the 1.8 IM shaft and Gear you will have to shave a little of the top of #4 rod. Not much.
Put it all together roll it around and you will see were to do it. 

I have the 1.8 IM shaft and gear in my GLI and i am putting 13psi to it every day. I have about 
1k miles on it now with no trouble at all..


----------



## mk1_cabriolet (Jul 16, 2009)

*Ah,*

Ah atlast.... Someone has the right answer. Thanks Jones. Oh yea, I only plan on 10psi with this set up....13psi. What are you numbers?


----------



## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

mk1_cabriolet said:


> Ah atlast.... Someone has the right answer. Thanks Jones. Oh yea, I only plan on 10psi with this set up....13psi. What are you numbers?


Not sure yet, I have not hit the dyno yet. I am going to push it up to 20psi after i get my MS put in. running on digi1 i am stuck under 15psi. 
I had it at 15psi for a day but i was having traction problems:screwy:
Its still a spins at 13 but i have a full lock 020, it grabs ok. Driving in the rain is fun...
You will need a fuel rail from some one like BBM, Ebay, of custom to fit the 16v head.
I would get head studs as well, I ran the metal ABA head gasket and copper coated it. Not sure if you need to but it helps.


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## mk1_cabriolet (Jul 16, 2009)

I pm'd ya Jones


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## markmn123 (Apr 4, 2009)

misc. aba parts for sale check my thread

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5285544-2.o-aba-parts-galore&p=71375708#post71375708


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## mk1_cabriolet (Jul 16, 2009)

*Btw..*

For the guys that have done the aba 16v in a Mk2...Does the Mk2 Accessories fit because I have my Pl 1.8 16v accessories but just a 2.0 aba block?


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

mk1_cabriolet said:


> For the guys that have done the aba 16v in a Mk2...Does the Mk2 Accessories fit because I have my Pl 1.8 16v accessories but just a 2.0 aba block?


Yes they all fit. You will have to change the bolts that hold the water pump, Just use all the stuff from the 16v bottom end. It will al fit on the ABA.


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## joshwidener (Apr 22, 2011)

*aba 16v ?*

my jetta is a 96 and obd2 can i still do this conversion or does my gotta be obd1 along with 16v head


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## roccostud (Jun 7, 2002)

So I have been doing some reading and I found out all I need to know at this point. But the one thing I have yet to find is info on using the aba block and 1.8 16v head. the bore is different between the aba and 1.8 16v ( 82.5 to 81mm ) thats if i keep it stock bore and not .5 over 

Isn't there going to be a lip on the inside of the combustion chamber? We don't really want that. wouldn't this cause problems with the piston hitting the cylinder head?


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

roccostud said:


> So I have been doing some reading and I found out all I need to know at this point. But the one thing I have yet to find is info on using the aba block and 1.8 16v head. the bore is different between the aba and 1.8 16v ( 82.5 to 81mm ) thats if i keep it stock bore and not .5 over
> 
> Isn't there going to be a lip on the inside of the combustion chamber? We don't really want that. wouldn't this cause problems with the piston hitting the cylinder head?


Their is no difference between the 1.8 and 2.0 16V head as far as the face. the pistons come up to the face of the head, NOT IN THE HEAD. You can run a 1.8 on a 2.0 with out a issue. I have a 1.8 head on my ABA with out any issue. 
If you look at the face of the head were the pistons come up to it you will see that the combustion chamber is in the head, The 16v pistons are flat top. This is why when you put the 
16v head on the ABA you get a low compression. 
You will be just fine.


----------



## 03boosted (Sep 19, 2009)

ive been researching for a hour or two now on building a NA aba/16v.

i have 2.0 16v complete and a complete aba bottom end.

i kno and understand everything that needs to be switched to get a running motor but what cant seem to find is a solid number on how much total to deck the head and block to get to the 11:1 compression ratio. Im not ever going to be running a turbo so the fact of not being able to reverse what im doing is perfectly fine with me.

I will be using the aba crank and rods with 9a pistons which is 9:1. 

In one posting i read someone is saying deck .08 which seems absolutely wrong to me but i guess i dont really kno. I was taking a guess of in the .025 range to .04??

any help would be greatly appreciated


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

03boosted said:


> ive been researching for a hour or two now on building a NA aba/16v.
> 
> i have 2.0 16v complete and a complete aba bottom end.
> 
> ...


80 thow or (.08) is good for 12:1 which is great if you have access to 92 octane fuel

i decked mine 70 thou for 11:1 because i can only get 91 octane in novascotia
i know it sounds like a lot to take off the top of a block, but it works. i ran that motor for about 4 yrs. as a daily driver, and now it is in my sons mk2 jetta (still going strong)


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## 03boosted (Sep 19, 2009)

thanks for the response. 

.07 bumps it up from 8:1 to 11:1

.01 goes from 11:1 to 12:1......


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

03boosted said:


> thanks for the response.
> 
> .07 bumps it up from 8:1 to 11:1
> 
> .01 goes from 11:1 to 12:1......


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## 03boosted (Sep 19, 2009)

i understand what your saying completely it just seems interesting that .07 bumps it up 3 and .01 bumps it up 1.

i think im gonna aim for .07 and skim the head .01 that will all work out to the same right?

really really really appreciate your input on that  block goes in tomorrow


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## battlewagens87 (Oct 21, 2008)

What timing belt do you use on this?


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## 03boosted (Sep 19, 2009)

abf belt i believe. i think bbm and techtonics sell them


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

doing this swap with abf pistons or equivilent, plus abf cams, and similar tuning, would this be an abf replica considering the block is aba or does the aba block keep it at a lower compression even with the abf cams? 

eurospec sport has cast abf pistons but the displacement is 2.1. does this mean to use these you would have to bore the aba block?


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

where can you get the injector cups needed for this swap and what is the point of the block off plate? couldnt you just leave the crank case vent tube?


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

The cups can be got at, Halsey Auto in portland, Or you can get them out of the wreaking yard. Just find a digi car and pull them. 
Yes you can run the stock breather. I do on both my motors.


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

sweet thanks. has anybody been able to find the cast ABF pistons that eurosport spec sells? they sell them through dealers only like 034 and fourseasons but they dont carry them. also was it ever clarified if the stock ABF pistons will even fit since the bore is different than ABA?


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## wayupnorth16vt (Dec 15, 2010)

*help my aba 16v turbo is super rich*

i have a aba 16v turbo running obd2 aba management with a c2 stage 2 42# file t3t4 running 12 psi....its runs mint just real rich on acceleration and breaks up untill 3000 rpm once past 3000 it smooths out and pulls like it should....serious lag also untill 3500 help me out please!!!! could my single window shutter wheel be off a little?:heart:


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

thats something you would want to ask the forced induction thread


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## wayupnorth16vt (Dec 15, 2010)

haha yeah figured id ask yall aba 16v people just seeing who knows what


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

I have a question that I hope some one can answer for me, I have a 9A 16v running 12.1 comp. Its got JE pistons and IE rods. If I took the crank, rods, and pistons, put them in the ABA block what would the compression come out to????
Would it be to low with the 144 rods? Or would it be about right for a big ass turbo?? Just wondering.


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## A2Carat (Jan 13, 2003)

I did some reading on this thread to about page 20 and it hasn't covered what I am looking for.. I am going to read the rest though, but in the mean time, I'll post my question anyway .. 

I am going to put a complete 9A (already built for performance) in the Mk3 OBD 2. Obviously I need the crank sensor to run the TT chipped OE OBD2 computer. So, 034 sells a good 60-2 trigger wheel/sensor kit and am going to run that on the outside of the crank pulley. Question: how do you time the trigger wheel? What do the two missing teeth represent in the engine rotation? 

Only thing I have read was that some shop somewhere does this all the time and they put the sensor 14 teeth from the missing teeth. Didn't say what direction or anything. Does anyone know? Haven't received much luck with emails from other VW tuning companies.. 

Thanks in advance ladies and gentlemen .. enjoy your weekends!


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## Blens (Sep 14, 2010)

A2Carat said:


> Thanks in advance *ladies* and gentlemen .. enjoy your weekends!


 :thumbup: 

Although I don't have an answer for you


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## A2Carat (Jan 13, 2003)

Blens said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> Although I don't have an answer for you


  - got to acknowledge the fairer sex ..  

.. and I can't seem to get an answer to my question anywhere .. weird.


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## clashingtaco (Mar 30, 2008)

I have a question about using the BBM 16v kit. It says all you need other than the kit is the 16v head, distributor and manifolds. It makes it sound way too easy. All the other parts lists mention needing a throttle body and a whole slew of parts. Is BBM leaving details out to try to sell these kits?

Also, I found another 16v aba post and it has a different list of needed parts. Are these just two options of doing this? http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5143274-The-how-to-16v-my-ABA

Sorry if these questions were already answered. My only internet access is my phone and waiting for 50+ pages to load is torture.

And just to clarify for me, do I only need the internal from the 16v distributor to put into the aba one(or the other way around, I can't remember which distributor is used right now)? Could I buy a distributor rebuild kit instead of a whole distributor?

I want to run the aba accessories and do this swap as easily as possible. The BBM kit makes everything sound so easy. 
Also, I have a 1.8 16v scirocco head and a 9a head. Which is better to use?
Thanks!


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## cabriosnap (Apr 24, 2009)

*question on aba16vt build*

ok so obd1 block
aba pistons and rods
2.016v head

running mild/high boost and a small nitrous burst. wanting a lil lower compression. what head/block spacer am i wanting to use? going with kenetic brand if i can


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

cabriosnap said:


> ok so obd1 block
> aba pistons and rods
> 2.016v head
> 
> running mild/high boost and a small nitrous burst. wanting a lil lower compression. what head/block spacer am i wanting to use? going with kenetic brand if i can


Dude you don't want any lower comp.. I run that same set up, ABA stock, 2.0 head stock, and a t3/t4. the comp is like 8.5.1 its low. 
I have put 30lb of boost to it with no problem. I ran 24lb every day for a wile. It was a wast as I could not get traction or get my clutchnet clutch to hook up. Right now it at 18psi all day every day. 
If you build it right and use the right stuff like ARP to hold it all together and have a good EMS with a great tune you can boost the hell out of it and put NOS to it. You wont need to lower the comp any more, its going to work fine... It will be fun..


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## cabriosnap (Apr 24, 2009)

woooord. this is going to be more of a touring build, so grabbing traction off the line really isnt at all my goal. but good to know i dont need to go any lower:thumbup:

as of right now, im going for a goal of 30psi consistantly. more to see if i can then anyhting else


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

Wow 30psi, all the time?? What size turbo are you going to run?? Mine is set at 18psi for my day to day driving, I have run it at 25psi with out any problem. But I dont think i would do it every day. the only other thing i can tell you is finding a clutch that will hold that kind of power is going to be hard, I am not sure what tranny you are going to run. that was my biggest challange, finding a good clutch that wont break or slip.


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## cabriosnap (Apr 24, 2009)

Jones84 said:


> Wow 30psi, all the time?? What size turbo are you going to run?? Mine is set at 18psi for my day to day driving, I have run it at 25psi with out any problem. But I dont think i would do it every day. the only other thing i can tell you is finding a clutch that will hold that kind of power is going to be hard, I am not sure what tranny you are going to run. that was my biggest challange, finding a good clutch that wont break or slip.



lol this motor isnt going into a daily dude. this $hits coming out on the nice days only

Build details will be revealed once the build is done and in a car:thumbup:


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

What is the estimated final static compression when using:

ABA block
ABA rods
9a pistons
TDI crank
16v head (presumably stock)

And what else extra is needed machine work wise? I know the block will need to be clearanced for the crank. and sounds like the nose may need to be shortened... :beer::beer:


----------



## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

just for my own reference and anyone else that may need it

accessory v- ribbed belt needed for the following set up:
AEB crank pulley, INA lightweight WP, INA lightweight Alt pulley, w/ no AC & no PS 

requires a 4/5/6pk 0990 or 4040390


----------



## youni213 (Feb 9, 2011)

i havea question regarding aba blocks. i read on here that 93/94 aba blocks have forged cranks and oil squirters. but i was told yesterday by someone else that only 95 aba's had the forged crank. i have a 94 aba jetta as a junker/parts car and i was gonna use the block along with a 1.8 16 valve head off my 89 gli. im about to rip the enigne out so i can junk the rest of the car but i dont want to remove the engine if i cant use it for the swap( i want to use the aba w/ a forged crank). so if anyone can send me on the right path to which aba engines are forged that would be great :beer:. thanks


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

*can i run an obd2 aba / 9a 16v on mk4 aeg wiring harness and ecu?*

can i run an obd2 aba / 9a 16v on mk4 aeg wiring harness and ecu?


----------



## cabby85 (Feb 28, 2009)

Here are all the parts i just took off/out my 2.0 16v. is this all the main parts i need for the swap other than timing belt, hoses, etc. Im more of a visual learner phuck reading haha


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

oil pump....


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

intake and exhaust manifolds 

also contact bbm for necessary hybrid parts: serpintine pully, water flange spacer, digi injector cups etc......good luck with your build.


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## SPECiAL_K777 (Dec 18, 2007)

which trans would be best for the aba 16v setup? i heard 02j but would aba work if it was fully rebuilt with that performance diff from GAP?


----------



## Pantherpro (Apr 7, 2009)

Can I use This combo, and what will I get whit?? :

ABA block
9a pistons and rods
16 v head.



Thanks a lot! I really need an answer, Saturday i have to decide i I buy 9A engine or ABA block i have already an 9A running but the actual crank is Kaput! i have to buy another block, What do you recommend?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Pantherpro said:


> Can I use This combo, and what will I get whit?? :
> 
> ABA block
> 9a pistons and rods
> ...


you cannot use the 9A rods(with 9A pistons) in the ABA, they are 15 mm too short. You can use 9A pistons on ABA rods if you rebush them and they will yield ~9.2:1. for N/A, use the correct ABF style pistons.


----------



## Pantherpro (Apr 7, 2009)

welll thanks a lot!!! if it where not for your answer I could make something wrong!!

So, what im going to use is:

ABA Block
9A Pistons
ABA Rods
ABA Crank
16v Head.

nice im excited!!!


----------



## SPECiAL_K777 (Dec 18, 2007)

so what happens with that annoying fuel distributor that the 16v has?


----------



## LOS ARCOS BULLYZ (Dec 9, 2011)

this post is amazing 
now i need some acvice for my future set up 
i just want to make sure i am on the right way any correction
is appreciate 
aba odb1 block aba pistons and rods this with a turbo set up 
1.8 sprokets and pullyes 
1.8 16v alternator 16v distributor 
and aba distributor just to run the aba oil pump ? can let this ditributor there is this going to work ?
1.8t timing belt all this going to a 87 16v gti i just eed it to run this is what i already have
later i will be getting full enrichment better injector 
now what a im missing ? thank for the help


----------



## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

what isthe verdict, ive heard that an obd 2 aba and 9a head will touch valves to pistons and ive heard they wont touch. what is the real answer 

i also have a.9mm headspacer that i can run as well, or just double gaskets? 

can i run a 16v 1.8L head on an obd2 2.0L aba? 

ill be running it all on VEMS


----------



## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

my2000APB said:


> what isthe verdict, ive heard that an obd 2 aba and 9a head will touch valves to pistons and ive heard they wont touch. what is the real answer
> 
> i also have a.9mm headspacer that i can run as well, or just double gaskets?
> 
> ...


 ????????????


----------



## 84MK1RabbitGTI (Oct 25, 2009)

Can an ABA ob2 block be used with a 16v head and keep the stock pistons? Or will I need clearencing for vavles??

Like machining the pistons or will they be fine?


----------



## Kyle. (Mar 10, 2012)

wow, a lot of people need to READ before asking questions. Im pretty sure its been asked 1000000 times weather or not the 9A pistons will work in the aba block, or what the difference is between OBDI and OBD II ! READ, READ and READ some more....then if you're still confused, maybe this build isnt for you. Just my $0.02. I had compiled almost 20 pages of hand written notes from this thread and others out there before I purchased a single part towards my build. To the OP, great job on this, I tip my hat to you for answering the same question hundreds of times over and not losing you s**t !


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## camilo226 (Sep 1, 2011)

Whats up Vortex, I am selling mostly all of the 16v components to swap onto a 2.0 aba head. I was going to run this set up on my car. IF you have any questions 407-456-3609. Valve stem seals were put in. Cams were resurfaced the lobes were. Head needs to be resurfaced. I also have some other misc parts. I have two distributors. Some piston rings and some gaskets as well. I also have the valve cover. 


























































































































SOLD!


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

RangeRover said:


> how do you get around the camsensor when converting to the 16v head.


use the hall sender in the dizzy for cam position


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

German_Muscle said:


> Updating the Main list. Check it out. I added the above info and MK3 accessory conversion info to the list. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif



if i run the 16v timing belt tensioner/roller do i not use the hydro tensioner from the aba?


im also using a 12v vr6 wp pulley and deleting a/c and p/s, so i will run serpentine only, any idea what belt to run?


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## Glissaid (Apr 16, 2008)

*aba 16v timing problem/need help as to how to degree the block*

I have a full build with a after market flywheel.The flywheel does not have a tdc mark on it so i need to degree the block to mark the flywheel.I do not trust the crank pulley mark because of the amount of play left and right in the pulley before the bolts are tight.


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## blackgolfer (Jan 24, 2011)

what do you folks think about this kinda build with turbo and itbs ? :thumbup:? or :thumbdown:

and also does anyone have a motor of this build that has a dyno chart ? thnx


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## the_kernel114 (Apr 6, 2010)

so wanting to build a n/a aba 16v as soon as i sell my toyota pickup. going to build a motor out of the car and swap it in when it's all done, going to run the aba mk3 accessories so going to get the aba serpentine pulley machined down 6mm. using a 16v crank pulley for the timing belt and a abf belt from bbm. going to put the 9a pistons on the aba rods (centered) and use a stock 8 valve head gasket. going to use the 16v distributor with aba internals. thats about all i have for info at the moment, anything else i need to know with this swap, like can i use the stock aba oil pump? looking to get around 10:1 compression with the 9a pistons, how much would i need to get the head or block or both shaved to get that? can the stock obd2 run this setup with a chip of some sort? 

thanks guys.


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## BoostingSlow (May 14, 2012)

Hey guys, quick question. Does a 1.8 intermediate shaft work with a 2.0 drive gear? Or am I good to use a 1.8 shaft and drive gear?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

BoostingSlow said:


> Hey guys, quick question. Does a 1.8 intermediate shaft work with a 2.0 drive gear? Or am I good to use a 1.8 shaft and drive gear?


No and No. You need a 2.0L IM shaft and drive gear.


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## BoostingSlow (May 14, 2012)

Prof315 said:


> No and No. You need a 2.0L IM shaft and drive gear.


Thanks for the quick response. I guess I have to find a 2.0L.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

or you can run these.

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/1762/Drive_Sprocket_ABA_2_0L_16V

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php/catalog.php?pid=1761


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## michaelnahodil (Apr 27, 2010)

To do the stroker set-up can you use a mk4 diesel crank?


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

michaelnahodil said:


> To do the stroker set-up can you use a mk4 diesel crank?


i am pretty sure i read somewhere you could use the mk4 tdi crank. it just needs more machining on the snout than the mk3 tdi crank. (i used a mk3 crank)


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## petreeman1000 (Aug 24, 2012)

how different is the BEV engine from the ABA engine?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

I have a 2.1 ABF pistons in a ABA OBD1 Block and 9A head (P & P, gasket matche, etc), with 268 cams and a 50 mm intake. Thing is running great but I went digi 1 and can't figure out how to get the speedo and tack to work.

Any help appreciated. opcorn:


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

Quick question.. 
Attaching a 16v head to a ABA block, What kind of head studs do you use? The standard 16v ones??











Thats all I am missing to put this bitch together..


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

yes reg 16v studs


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

xtremevdub said:


> Quick question..
> Attaching a 16v head to a ABA block, What kind of head studs do you use? The standard 16v ones??
> 
> 
> ...


I ended up going with ARP 16v studs. 

I need that intake badly. 


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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

xtremevdub said:


> Quick question..
> Attaching a 16v head to a ABA block, What kind of head studs do you use? The standard 16v ones??
> 
> 
> ...












Howdy cousin!!
Pm sent. 

sent from my mooseknuckle


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Old Windy said:


> I have a 2.1 ABF pistons in a ABA OBD1 Block and 9A head (P & P, gasket matche, etc), with 268 cams and a 50 mm intake. Thing is running great but I went digi 1 and can't figure out how to get the speedo and tack to work.
> 
> Any help appreciated. opcorn:


If it's in your 97 golf you can't at least not with digi .


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

Old Windy said:


> I have a 2.1 ABF pistons in a ABA OBD1 Block and 9A head (P & P, gasket matche, etc), with 268 cams and a 50 mm intake. Thing is running great but I went digi 1 and can't figure out how to get the speedo and tack to work.
> 
> Any help appreciated. opcorn:


why not just use the aba management? it will work proper and you can have a custom chip burned for the aba16v


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## Ra9chelle (Dec 12, 2012)

Thanks in advance :crosses fingers and hopes this thread takes off:


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Prof315 said:


> If it's in your 97 golf you can't at least not with digi .


Well it did run and started from the 1st try. Only thing was that I was not getting a proper signal for the fuel level. Got all else working. Thing was that the whole dashboard was lighted up like xmas. 



leon whalen said:


> why not just use the aba management? it will work proper and you can have a custom chip burned for the aba16v


Curently doing that at the moment. After break in, had to disasemble the engine again :banghead::banghead::banghead: due to excessive Oil consumption at startup and WOT. Ended up being that I needed better Oil Rings for the 83.5 mm pistons. 

I shall have it back on the road this weekend running on OBD2. I still wish had that intake, currenlty have a 50mm one.....


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## chilledOUTmk1 (Feb 5, 2006)

Does anyone have an issue with their timing belt running on the edges of the pullys. ABA16v using 150 tooth 1.8t timing belt, rides on the inside of the cam gear and outside of the crank pully.


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## CasuallyWreckless (Aug 27, 2007)

Bahn brenner has kits avail for this swap. Didn't read much past page 5. What kind of management are the mk1 guys running?


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## 9aba16vt (Feb 28, 2011)

I thought my post replied a couple days ago!

Mine is the opposite.. outside cam and inside crank.. weird...


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

Great thread/sticky! Learned alot, read way to much (mod needs to cut out ALOT of the repetitive questions). Between reading this thread and talking to a few other tex members…I started disassembling my aba block. Sourced out a 16v head & I am gonna buy the bbm kit to get this "winter project" started. Does anyone have any suggestions as to who has a better stand-alone system for this. Btw: thanks to everyone who put this together.

Parts list: 
IE h-beam rods riffled drilled
Je pistons for 16v abf along w/rings, also had skirt & tops calico coated
Calico coated bearings
Aba block
16v head
Arp head studs & rod bolts
T3/t4 garret turbo (I believe ar is .50)


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## clevebb (Feb 2, 2009)

Bx V-dubber said:


> Great thread/sticky! Learned alot, read way to much (mod needs to cut out ALOT of the repetitive questions). Between reading this thread and talking to a few other tex members…I started disassembling my aba block. Sourced out a 16v head & I am gonna buy the bbm kit to get this "winter project" started. Does anyone have any suggestions as to who has a better stand-alone system for this. Btw: thanks to everyone who put this together.


It's like an initiation of sorts, read through the entire thread and then you can answer questions instead of ask them. Nothing like reading the same "Can I use a... or a ...that?" 50 times, won't ever forget.


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## michaelnahodil (Apr 27, 2010)

*Confusion about Rod Bushings...*

So the setup I'm running is

OBD1 ABA Block
OBD1 ABA Crank
OBD1 ABA Rods
9A Pistons

I ordered 9a (2.0 16v) Rod Bushings, pressed one in, and the 9a wrist pin would not slide in
So I ordered PL (1.8 16v) Rod Bushings, and the same ordeal.

Am I doing something wrong? Did I misread something?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

michaelnahodil said:


> So the setup I'm running is
> 
> OBD1 ABA Block
> OBD1 ABA Crank
> ...


In order for that to work, the rods need to be machined to accept the bushings and 9A pistons. 
Get the 8v Mk2 rod bushings and take them to a machine shop. They will lnow what to do if you explain it to them. 

You running FI or NA?
That set up IIRC will get you a 9:1:1 compresion. 


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## michaelnahodil (Apr 27, 2010)

Old Windy said:


> In order for that to work, the rods need to be machined to accept the bushings and 9A pistons.
> Get the 8v Mk2 rod bushings and take them to a machine shop. They will lnow what to do if you explain it to them.
> 
> You running FI or NA?
> ...



Going to run NA... I'll bring an aba rod and a 9a rod and tell them the inside diameter for the bushings on the aba rods needs to match the 9a


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## speedyj77 (Jul 25, 2008)

Do I need to do cuts for valves when using ABA pistons and 16v head ?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

speedyj77 said:


> Do I need to do cuts for valves when using ABA pistons and 16v head ?


No, when using an ABA bottom end with a 16V head; there is no need to do anything to the valvetrain except cleaning it, making sure it is in good shape and if needed do a rebuild on the head.

That set up yields an 8:1:1 compression IIRC when using ABA pistons (depending on the year and type OBD1 / OBD2 and anything else the piston is different).
The ABA piston has a "dish" in it crown area. The ABA bottom end and 16v head is an excellent combination for Turbo aplication due to the compresion acquired.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

michaelnahodil said:


> Going to run NA... I'll bring an aba rod and a 9a rod and tell them the inside diameter for the bushings on the aba rods needs to match the 9a


That is a good idea, just take them both and tell them what to do. GL :thumbup:


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

michaelnahodil said:


> Going to run NA... I'll bring an aba rod and a 9a rod and tell them the inside diameter for the bushings on the aba rods needs to match the 9a


if you plan on staying N/A, take your block to the machine shop & tell them to shave 70thow of an inch off it. this will give you 11:1 comp. if you don't do this, it will be hard to make N/A power with 9:1 comp. i decked the block on my sons aba16v and it works great on pump gas (91 octane).


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## kyle18dunn (Sep 2, 2011)

xtremevdub said:


> Quick question..
> Attaching a 16v head to a ABA block, What kind of head studs do you use? The standard 16v ones??
> 
> 
> ...


How did you get the mk3 throttle body onto the 16 valve intake?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

kyle18dunn said:


> How did you get the mk3 throttle body onto the 16 valve intake?


That's an ABF intake. It uses either the actual ABF TB or an OBD2 VR6 TB. It bolts right up. 


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

kyle18dunn said:


> How did you get the mk3 throttle body onto the 16 valve intake?


I managed to squeeze a obd2 mk3 TB on it by expanding the bolt holes on the TB. 



Old Windy said:


> That's an ABF intake. It uses either the actual ABF TB or an OBD2 VR6 TB. It bolts right up.
> .


I think the Vr6 obd2 might work as well size wise, but if I am not mistaken, the VR6 Tb wont really work if you are keeping the ABA engine management. 
I would much rather use it, because of bore size being closer to the Stock abf but if I remember correctly, the guts of the TB are different. Although the TB plug actually matches.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

xtremevdub said:


> I managed to squeeze a obd2 mk3 TB on it by expanding the bolt holes on the TB.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





















Here's mine running on OBD2 ABA management with distributor modified to match ABA distributor. TB was VAG cleared so as to be able to run idle with a/c. 

Head is 9A with P&P, lightweight lifters, supertech valves and springs with Autotech street (ABF) cams and adjustable pulley. 
Intake is 1995 ABF with ABF fuel rail and injectors. 
Block is OBD1 1994 ABA with oil squirters, Schrick pan and baffle with balanced out crankshaft with ABF 83.5 mm pistons. Trans if from a 16v Passat with LSD full hydro conversion. 
Still deciding between running a TT chip or standalone. 


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

Wow.. I guess I am going that route also.. Where did you put the IAT sensor?
And how is it running?
And how much clearance do you have from the hood and the strut tower?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

xtremevdub said:


> Wow.. I guess I am going that route also.. Where did you put the IAT sensor?
> And how is it running?
> And how much clearance do you have from the hood and the strut tower?


Well the IAT is hanging on for dear life somewhere of to the side until I figure out a way to put it were it belongs. 










It's somewhere on top of the fuel rail. 










This is from a few weeks ago. Clearance was is not an issue as lo g as you install the TB in the same orientation as in this picture:










Surprisingly it cleared the bar and the hood. It is also riding on BFI 0.5 engine bushings which lift it up a bit too. 

As for running it was normal all the way up to 2k rpm. After that it broke loose all the way up to redline. Had to upgrade brakes from regular VR 11" brakes to ATE discs F/R hawk pads, blue fluid and Audi dual piston calipers from a Audi 5000. 

It runs normal only thing is start up, as it ended up with a 10.5 ish compression. So I need to upgrade that. Still no DYNO yet until proper break in and some getting use to drive it. 

Here is a shot of it out of the car she it was running first on Digi 1 and a 50 mm intake. 































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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

Old Windy said:


> Here's mine running on OBD2 ABA management with distributor modified to match ABA distributor. TB was VAG cleared so as to be able to run idle with a/c.
> 
> Head is 9A with P&P, lightweight lifters, supertech valves and springs with Autotech street (ABF) cams and adjustable pulley.
> Intake is 1995 ABF with ABF fuel rail and injectors.
> ...


 if you are running aba management and abf injectors, you should hook up an air/fuel meter when you dyno the car, my son tried this combo. on his aba16v and it appeared to be running great (pulled hard). but when he dynoed it, the A/F showed it was lean at idle, rich through the mid range and lean at WOT. this could cause problems in the long term. so he now runs aba inj. on a 1.8t fuel rail. he also uses the aba idle stabilizer which i notice you don't have, so that could change things also. 

also if you are deciding between stand alone or T.T. chip. chip is much cheaper, does not need dyno time for tuning and does a great job managing these motors. stand alone will give you a little more power but not enough to justify the extra $$....just my 2 cents


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

leon whalen said:


> if you are running aba management and abf injectors, you should hook up an air/fuel meter when you dyno the car, my son tried this combo. on his aba16v and it appeared to be running great (pulled hard). but when he dynoed it, the A/F showed it was lean at idle, rich through the mid range and lean at WOT. this could cause problems in the long term. so he now runs aba inj. on a 1.8t fuel rail. he also uses the aba idle stabilizer which i notice you don't have, so that could change things also.
> 
> also if you are deciding between stand alone or T.T. chip. chip is much cheaper, does not need dyno time for tuning and does a great job managing these motors. stand alone will give you a little more power but not enough to justify the extra $$....just my 2 cents


 
Thanks. I currently got a TT chip this past week installed and running. 










Had to disassemble the engine because of a spun rod (caught it immediately) improper torque applied by the installer. Currently having a second crank and rods at the machine shop getting balanced....
Needless to say I'm a little pissed. It has a 3 to 3.5 bar VR adjustable FPR and a an inline pressure meter. 
After looking at the head this weekend we are trying to figure out if it's running lean or not or how to fix the lean. 
I will contact TT again once we are able to measure the a/f ratio appropriately. Engine ended up with an 11.1 compression. 
Can you explain to me how to add the ABA idle stabilizer bar? If I run into any more problems I have a 1.8T fuel rail and 19 lb. yellow injectors at the ready if the change is needed. 

Thanks for the info, I'm already talking to Collin over at TT. I will mention this to him when I talk to him this week. 

Stand alone will be at a latter face so that I can actually learn more and have fun at the time. I already know it is quite a chunk of $$, and at the moment all any toys are off while since I'm getting married in a couple if month. So as to say it is not a priority unless I can trade for one from the spare parts I have from this build. Needless to say all I need is an ABA block and Crankshaft and I can build another. 



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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

Old Windy said:


> Here's mine running on OBD2 ABA management with distributor modified to match ABA distributor. TB was VAG cleared so as to be able to run idle with a/c.
> 
> Head is 9A with P&P, lightweight lifters, supertech valves and springs with Autotech street (ABF) cams and adjustable pulley.
> Intake is 1995 ABF with ABF fuel rail and injectors.
> ...


 Thanks for the info. Im in the same boat. ABA/16v w/ ABA TB on ABF mani w/ 1.8t Rail and AWP 1.8t injectors running OBD2 management on a United Motorsports tune. Stock Head and Block AFAIK. 










I'm running this in my MK1 Pickup, so TB clearance is potentially an issue. Im trying to figure out if i need a modified version of the NLS adapter/drop down spacer for my ABA TB? 

http://nothingleavesstock.com/online-store/#!/~/product/category=2903030&id=14166951 

.........Or, do I flip the throttle body so that the other end (which a is smaller piece of metal sticking out) to help minimise the protrusion. I guess no one has done a similar setup in an mk1 for that reason. To help altogether with this situation, im using 'hood stand-offs' 


For Clarification 'Old Windy' In your setup are you using an OBD2 ABA or VR TB? 

:wave:opcorn:


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm using a VR6 OBD2 TB. Flipped around so that it does not interfere with the hood or strut bar. The ABF manifold actually gave me some additional clearance away from the firewall. 

See if you can have a machine shop do an adapter. It might even be more efficient for your custom needs. 


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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

Old Windy said:


> I'm using a VR6 OBD2 TB. Flipped around so that it does not interfere with the hood or strut bar. The ABF manifold actually gave me some additional clearance away from the firewall.
> 
> See if you can have a machine shop do an adapter. It might even be more efficient for your custom needs.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the tip. I guess i'll first get this thing running and then when i need the hood back on i'll figure out TB orientation. As far as your setup goes and your possible lean condition; this may be consistent with what i inquired about with regards to using the VR TB. My understanding is that the bigger TB with a 3" MAF would create a lean condition. So it almost makes sense in your case to possibly consider using the ABA TB instead with the corresponding MAF. 
Also, the ABA and VR TB have one wire that sits in a different terminal. Did you ever look into that matter or did you just connect the harness plug with no modification? TIAopcorn::beer:


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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

leon whalen said:


> if you are running aba management and abf injectors, you should hook up an air/fuel meter when you dyno the car, my son tried this combo. on his aba16v and it appeared to be running great (pulled hard). but when he dynoed it, the A/F showed it was lean at idle, rich through the mid range and lean at WOT. this could cause problems in the long term. so he now runs aba inj. on a 1.8t fuel rail. he also uses the aba idle stabilizer which i notice you don't have, so that could change things also.


 Hey Leon what TB are you using? MAF? Tune? Im tyring to figure out if running a VR TB is even worth messing with........ I have the fueling under control but i think the TB is what is going to make or break this deal...... 
:wave:


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

mozcar78 said:


> Thanks for the tip. I guess i'll first get this thing running and then when i need the hood back on i'll figure out TB orientation. As far as your setup goes and your possible lean condition; this may be consistent with what i inquired about with regards to using the VR TB. My understanding is that the bigger TB with a 3" MAF would create a lean condition. So it almost makes sense in your case to possibly consider using the ABA TB instead with the corresponding MAF.
> Also, the ABA and VR TB have one wire that sits in a different terminal. Did you ever look into that matter or did you just connect the harness plug with no modification? TIAopcorn::beer:


 Technically we had a US spec Bentley (MK3) and an ABF VW/SEAT Bently side by side to check what was used, sensors and what not. So far the TB is holding the engine to specs (800 rpm at iddle), it was VAG COM reset but I can't remember if it was done to ABA or VR specs (I will have to ask). 
The ABF and VR has cooling, fueling and some timing (advance and retard) in common from what we saw and have been able to check (have a friend in GB that's been sending me data, specs and pictures from actual ABF's she's been parting out) also as sending me some sparts that I have needed. The ABF injectors are programed the pulse as the ABA ones IIRC (can't say the same for VR6). It is just a tad lean but only in iddle but so far we have not detected any mechanical problems (engine has been running since November of last year until a rod bearing spun around and took the crankshaft with it all this while the engine had excellent oil pressure).:banghead::banghead::banghead: New balanced crankshaft with rods and all new bearings will be installed this week. 

The engine harness was made to look and have all the sensors of the ABA one big difference was the ease on cold starts and iddle vs. Digi 1. Also fuel consumption is down cosiderably (no more gas smell and or smoke) coming out of the exhaust. The lean/rich gauge should be installed once the engine is reaseembled this week. But so far the lean is probably from just iddling the engine too much as it has barely seen any road time (IE not running long enough untill it warms up), so far the plugs do not indicate a Lean issue. 

If anyone wants a copy of some of the Seat/ABF repair manual PM me. I can also inlcude and old guide I found from ages ago were it dictates how to run and ABA with 9A pistons on ABA management.


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

old windy- you do not need a separate ISV your obd-2 TB has an electric motor that takes care of this.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

leon whalen said:


> old windy- you do not need a separate ISV your obd-2 TB has an electric motor that takes care of this.


 Thanks, and you are correcto on that. 


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

mozcar78 said:


> Hey Leon what TB are you using? MAF? Tune? Im tyring to figure out if running a VR TB is even worth messing with........ I have the fueling under control but i think the TB is what is going to make or break this deal......
> :wave:


 my son is running an abf TB, an aba MAF and an aba obd 1 comp. with a T.T. aba16v chip.(his abf intake came with the proper TB) 

i have an abf intake that will be going on my motor soon and i will set it up first with aba TB, but i am going to try the vr TB because it is closer in size to the abf one.


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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

leon whalen said:


> my son is running an abf TB, an aba MAF and an aba obd 1 comp. with a T.T. aba16v chip.(his abf intake came with the proper TB)
> 
> i have an abf intake that will be going on my motor soon and i will set it up first with aba TB, but i am going to try the vr TB because it is closer in size to the abf one.


 I have a ABF TB that came with my kit. But since i am running OBD2 ABA management i dont see how i could run that one. Actually i'm pretty certain that you cant on that respective management. 

But, now you guys (Old Windy and Leon) got me wondering what would happen if i ran a VR TB with a VR MAF. I kept hearing about creating a lean condition with the higher flowrate from the bigger TB and the bigger MAF on a stock ABA obd2 tune. I was even discussing this with a tuner who runs united motorsports software who confirmed the same as well. But now you guys seem to running it and are ok with it??!! SO it has got to be the tune that allows it to run under those conditions so that the fueling can compensate for the higher flow. 
On a separate note, the only other issue i'm wondering about, which i'll have to look at the bentley to figure out, is the pin position of the the VR harness vs. ABA to make sure it sees a proper signal. I read somewhere on here that one wire is not in the same spot as the ABA. Anywho i have to double check that to make it work on ABA OBD2. Ill have to jump back on here to list the signals that run through both TB's. maybe we can collectively agree on what can or cannot be done on this setup. 

Ok ive said alot and I hope my gibberish makes sense......... 

Actually, i think we need our own thread for this one eh? :wave::laugh: 

Regards, 
Oscar


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

mozcar, if i had your set up i would get it running properly with an aba TB & MAF. then confirm A/F ratios are good, then put on a vr TB with the aba MAF & re-check A/F. if its good keep it, if not then try the vr MAF and so on....until you find the best combo 

on a separate note, if you are not using that abf TB i would love to buy it from you.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

mozcar, Where did you get that nice looking ISV plug/delete from? :heart:


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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

Old Windy said:


> mozcar, Where did you get that nice looking ISV plug/delete from? :heart:


Hector, 

I had 'Spahn Dirge' make it for me. He is on here somewhere. Oh and the ABF TB not sure if i will part with it at the moment. Sorry mate. Ill keep you in mind once i get things sorted. 

Oh and thanks for the tip. 

Regards.
Oscar :wave:


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## Fabriccio (May 30, 2010)

Alright so new to this whole 16v deal but not to wrenching nor Volkswagens. Anyways I want to do an ABA 16v swap in my mk3 instead of the common VR swap everyone doe, why? Because from the little research I've done the 16v puts up good numbers when in comparison to the VR. 

First let me start of by saying i have a 97 2.0 now for my question's: 

-On the first page it says I need an bod 1 aba block, why can't I just use my obd 2 lower end? (It has low miles only 130k and my whole engine is well maintained) 

-Also says to use an obd 1 crank, again why can't I keep my obd 2 bottom end? 

-Connecting rods again blah blah blah


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## 9aba16vt (Feb 28, 2011)

So, 
1: Forged / possible oil squirters
2: Forged.. 

So, yeah... you can keep what you have..


----------



## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Fabriccio said:


> Alright so new to this whole 16v deal but not to wrenching nor Volkswagens. Anyways I want to do an ABA 16v swap in my mk3 instead of the common VR swap everyone doe, why? Because from the little research I've done the 16v puts up good numbers when in comparison to the VR.
> 
> First let me start of by saying i have a 97 2.0 now for my question's:
> 
> ...


 My advice would be to acquire if possible a known running 9A or KR engine (preferable a 9A due to additional options or parts that can be re-used). 

It is recommended to use an OBD1 block due to the oil squirters and additional block strength and as noted the more durable crankshaft (forged). 

But is you have an OBD2 block that you know and trust, you can use that. The benefits of the OBD1 block are there but if you are just going for a NA build there are nice to have but not necessary. 

I'm currently running an OBD1 block with a OBD2 crankshaft out of necessity because a good OBD1 is hard to find (at least over here and NO I'm not shipping one); I originally had an OBD1 but due to the diligence of the builders assistant of not using the proper torque on the piston rods, after a final shakedown test drive by the builder, my engine spun a rod on cylinder #2 :banghead:, delaying my build for a whole month and necessitating a whole breakdown, clean up and rebuild (and a fix of a multitude of d!ck moves done by the assistant). 

Tomorrow is start up time again and this time the shop owner did the full blown rebuild and assembly. I did a inspection today and outside of not being able to install my air oil cooler (decided to just start with water cooling for the oil until I have some time down the road) all should be ok. Good news is It gave me time to acquire an extra set of ABF injectors and rail and a sexy ABF TB. 

When I have a chance I will later post pics of the differences and similarities between and OBD2 VR6 TB and a ABF TB (if you are using and ABF 53 mm intake). 

Also if you want any info feel free to ask whatever you need. I have enough spare parts to build an additional ABF clone and maybe I'll do so after the wedding. 

Hope this helps.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

I'm Doing the swap with an OBD2 block, just a quick question for those who can help. Didn't see it on the parts list but should i use 8v head bolts or 16v head bolts. Also do you guys think the BBM TB adapter will work with the ABA TB and the ABF intake manifold? Thanks 

EDIT: found it, 16v head studs.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Adubbed said:


> I'm Doing the swap with an OBD2 block, just a quick question for those who can help. Didn't see it on the parts list but should i use 8v head bolts or 16v head bolts. Also do you guys think the BBM TB adapter will work with the ABA TB and the ABF intake manifold? Thanks
> 
> EDIT: found it, 16v head studs.


 Yes you will need to use 16v head studs. Now if you have an ABF intake, you will need the following: 
ABF TB or OBD2 VR6 TB. 
ABF fuel rail with injectors or 1.8T fuel rail (you will need to mod the intake so that it accepts the injectors). 
I'm currently running the VR6 OBD2 TB with an ABF injector fuel rail (the ABF injector fuel rail has the injectors integrated into the fuel rail). But I was able to acquire an ABF TB but from what I have been able to see into it, it appears that the ABF is a combination of the old 16V TB in that it has separate switches to control the idle almost like a Passat 16V TB. 

I'm currently tuning my engine and after that I will look into how to incorporate the ABF TB into it.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Old Windy said:


> Yes you will need to use 16v head studs. Now if you have an ABF intake, you will need the following:
> ABF TB or OBD2 VR6 TB.
> ABF fuel rail with injectors or 1.8T fuel rail (you will need to mod the intake so that it accepts the injectors).
> I'm currently running the VR6 OBD2 TB with an ABF injector fuel rail (the ABF injector fuel rail has the injectors integrated into the fuel rail). But I was able to acquire an ABF TB but from what I have been able to see into it, it appears that the ABF is a combination of the old 16V TB in that it has separate switches to control the idle almost like a Passat 16V TB.
> ...


 Thank you :beer: So the BBM fuel rail won't work with the ABF manifold either then?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

No, the BBM fuel rail is designed to work with USDM 16V intakes. The ABF is different in size, length and configuration. 

Here's what an ABF fuel rail looks like. 


















Here's a quick comparison between a VR6 OBD2 TB and an ABF TB (this one came from a 1995 iirc). 





































The one with the bulky electronics is the OBD2 VR6 TB. 



A wireless device powered by Hamsters on wheels.


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

The 1.8t fuel rail wont fit the ABF easily and the inlet/outlet ports of it would be in the tranny side if you make it fit. So is not a good idea... 








































I did something MUCH cleaner... but much more expensive  
Pics when I come home from work...


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Wouldn't the injectors leak that way. I have seen that to use regular injectors (not the digi3 ABF injectors) you have to fill the area were they plug into with an aluminum collar surruonded with Green or Red loctite and heat that up. 

On a second note, I'm currently running an 02A from a 1990 Passat transmission; my starter currently feels weak but able to start the engien, I was looking to possibly swap in a MK3 TDI starter in to replace the 16V Passat one; can this be done or do I just get a new starter and call it a day? 

:beer:


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

Old Windy said:


> Wouldn't the injectors leak that way. I have seen that to use regular injectors (not the digi3 ABF injectors) you have to fill the area were they plug into with an aluminum collar surruonded with Green or Red loctite and heat that up.
> :beer:


 I used these bosses and cut them... 



























And I did do the red loctite and heat thing... 

















































































I used a 034 1.8T fuel rail and the adaptor to run a OEM fuel pressure regulator plus a fuel gauge. 
Aeroquiped fuel hoses and all AN fittings... 

Dont Mind the ugly blue paint.. is was a test on a paint color that went wrong.. :sly: 




Old Windy said:


> On a second note, I'm currently running an 02A from a 1990 Passat transmission; my starter currently feels weak but able to start the engien, I was looking to possibly swap in a MK3 TDI starter in to replace the 16V Passat one; can this be done or do I just get a new starter and call it a day?


 I put a TDI starter on my friends cabriolet with a 2.0 passat 16v on it. 
His car was really high compression and the regular starter was having issues getting the car going.. with the HUGE diesel starter the car cranked like butter!!! 
overkill and a half. :laugh:


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Well I saw that before, but since my ABF intake came with the rail, and I was able to score 2 extra ones for like $40 + shipping (UK Ebay and I lost a 3rd one that I had a bid on for like $3.50 + shipping :banghead::banghead::banghead it was easier for me to figure out the way on how to wire mine. But I will keep this method in the future for if I ever feel like moving up to the 4 way 19lb yellow bosh injectors I have.:heart: 

Now to see which one of the TDI starters works for the 02A trans since my engine ended up with an 11.5 compresion after I had it needed to be rebuilded because of the spun bearing.... 

Anyway, is that intermediate shaft lightweigth pulley wort it? 

Was able to drive a little longer this past week and I will say it again, why did they not bring the ABF over :screwy: I find it much more easier to work on and almost as power wise but dyno comparable to the VR6, but then again even my transmission has a few tricks too.


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

The engine we put the Diesel starter was 12.1 and it spun soo easy and fast... almost like having no spark plugs on it. :thumbup: 

And the IM shaft pulley is probably useless, gain wise... but it looks damn cool and I got it for dirt cheap brand new. 


Now.. I need to find a proper turbo manifold.... :banghead: 

*This one looks and fits nice.. but is sooo cheap that you can tell it wont take a lot of boost. *


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

gotta a question for the gurus on here. short block is at machine shop as we speak. im in the middle of figuring out issues with other vw, but need to figure out if i should do something with the 16v head for my build. ive seen posts where i should at least port & polish, open up the ports, exhaust & intake valves. the head came off a working car and i was also wondering if i should leave it stock instead. i know for top end it'll make power but what about the low to mid range. this engine will be turbo-ed. any help/guidance will be appreciated.:beer:


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Is there a specific head gasket kit you guys would recommend?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Well I used the ABA head gasket. No problems so far.

Anyone knows what VW diesel starter is compatible with a Passat 16V 02A manual transmission and flywheel?


A wireless device powered by Hamsters on wheels.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Talked to the local shop today about my 16v head swap. He said the only way he'd do it is if I got the bottom end decked by a machine shop. I already have so much money in this it just seems like another thing to throw money at. I know it would be better but is it necessary to spend that extra coin?


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## BoostingSlow (May 14, 2012)

Adubbed said:


> Talked to the local shop today about my 16v head swap. He said the only way he'd do it is if I got the bottom end decked by a machine shop. I already have so much money in this it just seems like another thing to throw money at. I know it would be better but is it necessary to spend that extra coin?


No but it's piece of mind. Fwiw I didn't deck mine and my buddy has built a few and never decked any. I think if the block and head were in good shape to begin with it wouldn't matter. I understand the shops concern though. If I were in their position I would want it done to, to ensure quality.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

BoostingSlow said:


> No but it's piece of mind. Fwiw I didn't deck mine and my buddy has built a few and never decked any. I think if the block and head were in good shape to begin with it wouldn't matter. I understand the shops concern though. If I were in their position I would want it done to, to ensure quality.


I understand the want for quality, but the motor in the car has 57k on it and my head has 10k on it.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Adubbed said:


> Talked to the local shop today about my 16v head swap. He said the only way he'd do it is if I got the bottom end decked by a machine shop. I already have so much money in this it just seems like another thing to throw money at. I know it would be better but is it necessary to spend that extra coin?


Why is there a need to get the bottom decked. Unless you are looking into increasing or building a high compression N/A engine there is no need to do that. Are you using ABF pistons or 9A pistons matched to ABA rods? ABF if a 10.1 compression but when you do 9A you go with 9.1 vs. the ABA 8.1 IIRC. 

Also be careful with doing that because and this was verified by my builder and my machine shop, when you deck a bottom you are going to have a hard time to time it properly. If you are undecided on what pistons to use and would like a suggestion let me know I might be able to share some stuff with you. 

Just go with the ABA bottom end, have it cleaned properly and have the head P&P and gasket matched if you can. If you have the funds then try to have AEG valves fitted into the 16v head with the P&P, dual springs and titanium lifters.

Again in the end it is your expectations and goal that will determine what you want to put into the engine. 

Mine were to have a fun daily that had enough power for fun and a complete sleeper. Also the 16V is becoming more of a connoisseur engine and less common than say a VR6 or 1.8T swap.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Old Windy said:


> Why is there a need to get the bottom decked. Unless you are looking into increasing or building a high compression N/A engine there is no need to do that. Are you using ABF pistons or 9A pistons matched to ABA rods? ABF if a 10.1 compression but when you do 9A you go with 9.1 vs. the ABA 8.1 IIRC.
> 
> Also be careful with doing that because and this was verified by my builder and my machine shop, when you deck a bottom you are going to have a hard time to time it properly. If you are undecided on what pistons to use and would like a suggestion let me know I might be able to share some stuff with you.
> 
> ...


Thanks again. I have ABF pistons connected to ABA rods. Heads ported and polished with oversized valves. Lightweight lifters/HD springs and steel retainers with 260 schrick cams. The meat is all there. His reasoning for getting the block and head decked was so the surfaces match spot on.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

i'm doing a ABA 16v. i have 9A pistons on the way with rods. 

i have few questions...

can i use the 9A rods on the ABA crank? and which rods bearings do i purchase? ABA rod bearing or 9A rod bearings. ?

if i can't use 9A rods how do i modify the pistons to accept the aba rods? 

i'm kinda curious what my CR is going to be with this. i'm going N/A. i'm also having my head milled? what numbers am i looking at? 

thank you !:thumbup:


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

vw88 said:


> i'm doing a ABA 16v. i have 9A pistons on the way with rods.
> 
> i have few questions...
> 
> ...


9a rods are too short. use aba rods and bearings. have a machine shop press out the wrist pin bushings from your 9a rods and put them in the aba rods so you can use the 9a pistons on the aba rods. this will give you somewhere between 9.1:1 to 9.4:1 comp. this is a useable range, but if you are looking to add cams and other power adders to your N/A build you will want to have a machine shop deck your aba block 70 thow/inch. to up your comp. to 11:1. i did this to my sons aba16v and it works great on pump gas. 
only mill your head enough to make it true. then subtract that number from 70 to get your new block decking # so you dont end up with to much comp


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

leon whalen said:


> 9a rods are too short. use aba rods and bearings. have a machine shop press out the wrist pin bushings from your 9a rods and put them in the aba rods so you can use the 9a pistons on the aba rods. this will give you somewhere between 9.1:1 to 9.4:1 comp. this is a useable range, but if you are looking to add cams and other power adders to your N/A build you will want to have a machine shop deck your aba block 70 thow/inch. to up your comp. to 11:1. i did this to my sons aba16v and it works great on pump gas.
> only mill your head enough to make it true. then subtract that number from 70 to get your new block decking # so you dont end up with to much comp


awesome. that answers a lot of my questions. :thumbup: much appreciated!

now i have a new question. im not a machinist so i'm not exactly sure what you mean by. 

"deck your aba block 70 thow/inch. then only mill your head enough to make it true. then subtract that number from 70 to get your new block decking #

i obviously know what deck means, but could you give that a more in depth explanation on the numbers part.. 

all i usually do is give my buddy my parts that need machined and say "hey man, work your magic"


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

after i told you to deck the block 70 thow, i noticedyou are planning to "mill" your head. this will also raise comp. so if you do the head and the block you could end up with too much comp. so lets say your buddy says he needs to take 8 thow off the head to make it "true". then only take 62 thow off the block so you end up with 11:1 comp. when you are done. 

if this does not clear it up, just print my post and give it to your machinist, he will understand.....sorry if i am confusing you.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

leon whalen said:


> after i told you to deck the block 70 thow, i noticedyou are planning to "mill" your head. this will also raise comp. so if you do the head and the block you could end up with too much comp. so lets say your buddy says he needs to take 8 thow off the head to make it "true". then only take 62 thow off the block so you end up with 11:1 comp. when you are done.
> 
> if this does not clear it up, just print my post and give it to your machinist, he will understand.....sorry if i am confusing you.


not confusing the slightest bit. we have already talked over with that you have said to me. the numbers were cleared up. and now have full understanding of what you meant. :thumbup:

thanks for the information. it surely was needed. :thumbup: 
i think the route we are going is taking off .035 off the head. we will see were that takes us. run a compression test. and go from there. i'm not exactly wanting to have 11:1 i'm not going to have bolt on mods. such as cams etc. if that gets me to 10:1 i will be happy. hes going to do the math for me and figure it out. 
i'm just looking to have nice N/A aba 16v..
but major head work is in the near future. PP head. HD springs. over sized valves. and ABF cams. and TT adj cam gear :thumbup:

i'll be forking a pretty penny for all this stuff. but well worth it to burn some rubber in a 16v 

i just don't burn enough rubber in the PL 16v i have now:laugh: but it'll chirp 'em in second. :thumbup:

what i'm working with now. 


and the aba 16v in the works as we speak :thumbup:


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

Anyone have any pointers on how to remove the drum from the distributor shafts without damaging them (or at least without damaging the ABA drum)?:thumbup:


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

is aba a one window dizzy?


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

Correct, ABA is single window dizzy. Need to swap the drum from the ABA (single window) to the 16v (four window) if using OBDII management. There are a few well written posts out there on how and why, but I'm struggling with the actual process of pulling the drums off the dizzy shafts without damaging them. 

Would appreciate some pointers from anyone who has actually done it.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

pcl073 said:


> Correct, ABA is single window dizzy. Need to swap the drum from the ABA (single window) to the 16v (four window) if using OBDII management. There are a few well written posts out there on how and why, but I'm struggling with the actual process of pulling the drums off the dizzy shafts without damaging them.
> 
> Would appreciate some pointers from anyone who has actually done it.


try this: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?884224-ABA-Swap-Distributer-Help&highlight=dizzy


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

I have a few DIY's for the conversion of the Dizzy (I need to convert a spare 16V dizzy just in case). 

I'll post the links after work or try to send you the PDF's.


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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

pcl073 said:


> Correct, ABA is single window dizzy. Need to swap the drum from the ABA (single window) to the 16v (four window) if using OBDII management. There are a few well written posts out there on how and why, but I'm struggling with the actual process of pulling the drums off the dizzy shafts without damaging them.
> 
> Would appreciate some pointers from anyone who has actually done it.


I have done it personally and found it to be quite difficult to remove the 16v pin on the gear. I put the dizzy on a vice and used a pin with a sledge hammer to remove it. Gotta make sure you strike dead on without shifting about too much. One strike at a time. 

There are other ways such as:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3536766-Phenoms-Howtos-16v-Distributor-Seal-Replacemen

very useful link to reference from and you might as well and replace all the seals. :thumbup:


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Here is another one. Hope this helps:
http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/VW/MKIII/VW_2.0_ABA_16-Valve_Conversion.pdf

Also if anyone feels like doin a more detailed or a better DIY post it here too. 
The more the merrier.


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

hey vw88, i just seen your car in the coupe forum. very nice.:thumbup:

35 off the head should raise your comp. just over 1 point. that will put you in the low 10s to 1.
stock comp. was advertised as 10.8:1, but actual tested motors showed closer to 10.2:1. which is close to where you are going to be. that will work great.
i see you have a 1.8lt head on your benck. that is the head to use(they make a little more power than the 2lt head in stock form). don't bother with bigger valves unless you are building an all out motor. you can make 200whp with stock valves. you will definately want an adj. cam gear with a decked head, to dial in your cams. ABf cams are a great choice for a street car. a modified exhaust cam on the intake side is cheap HP while you are saving up for ABF cams.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

leon whalen said:


> hey vw88, i just seen your car in the coupe forum. very nice.:thumbup:
> 
> 35 off the head should raise your comp. just over 1 point. that will put you in the low 10s to 1.
> stock comp. was advertised as 10.8:1, but actual tested motors showed closer to 10.2:1. which is close to where you are going to be. that will work great.
> i see you have a 1.8lt head on your benck. that is the head to use(they make a little more power than the 2lt head in stock form). don't bother with bigger valves unless you are building an all out motor. you can make 200whp with stock valves. you will definately want an adj. cam gear with a decked head, to dial in your cams. ABf cams are a great choice for a street car. a modified exhaust cam on the intake side is cheap HP while you are saving up for ABF cams.


awesome, thats what i love to hear :thumbup: low 10's to 1 will be good for me.
if anything, i do want HD springs though. i feel like that'll help enough for what i'm doing. 
after i get the engine all together. adj gear will be on the way. and possibly ABF clone cams. TT makes a set(which you already know i'm sure) will those do the job? they are one sale pretty cheap. like 250$

i do have one question. can i use stock 16v timing belt. or do i need a ABF belt

also, any experience with Mega Squirt? thinking about going that route. to get rid on my Digi 1 injection system. i'm still in the process of doing research. but so far i like it. and want to know more/research more. i think i could make a good amount of power with it. and thats what id love to do. so if you have any info on it. love to know whatcha got. 

thanks :thumbup:


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

for the timing belt you need the 150 tooth 1.8t belt. or abf belt. T.T. can hook you up with either one of these.

when you said abf cams, i figured you ment the T.T. ones
HD springs are a great investment (but not required for abf cams). but still worth the money:thumbup:

i think most stand alone systems are great, if you are running boost. if you are staying N/A, then stand alone is a big investment for a little HP. your car is ce2 so the ABA engine harness and computer will plug into your fuse box. "easy peasey" get T.T. to burn an aba16v chip and you will be golden. lots of guys say "you gotto go stand alone they make great power". but i have never seen a dyno on an all motor car make more than 12 extra HP from stand alone. a chip will give you 7-9 HP and it only cost $100.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

leon whalen said:


> for the timing belt you need the 150 tooth 1.8t belt. or abf belt. T.T. can hook you up with either one of these.
> 
> when you said abf cams, i figured you ment the T.T. ones
> HD springs are a great investment (but not required for abf cams). but still worth the money:thumbup:
> ...


So the 1.8t will work. That's awesome. 

And I guess you are right. I have a obd1 wiring harness with ECU. And all sensors. I could go that route.


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

> have done it personally and found it to be quite difficult to remove the 16v pin on the gear. I put the dizzy on a vice and used a pin with a sledge hammer to remove it. Gotta make sure you strike dead on without shifting about too much. One strike at a time.
> 
> There are other ways such as:
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...eal-Replacemen
> ...


I got the shafts out of each dizzy, still haven't found a way to pull the drums off. Is heating them up worth a try?


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## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

Drums will come off. Use a socket that is exactly the circumference of the base of the window. Gotta strike it very hard. It will slide out.


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## clevebb (Feb 2, 2009)

First one I tried didn't want to come apart, second one slid right off. Those were the 16V , the ABA came apart easy for me.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

clevebb said:


> First one I tried didn't want to come apart, second one slid right off. Those were the 16V , the ABA came apart easy for me.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


One last question and then I promise I won't come back without results :thumbup:.

I'll use a socket (good idea!) with other end in the vice. But does it matter which end I slide the drum off of - do I slide it out the top of the shaft or out the bottom? Or does it matter? I can't tell just from looking at it.


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## clevebb (Feb 2, 2009)

Comes off the top. Makes a big difference! 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

clevebb said:


> Comes off the top. Makes a big difference!
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


 Thanks for the help - this approach was eventually what worked. The fact it comes off the top is pretty important!


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

^^^^^ what did you do to line the single window up into the 16v Dist? i'm doing this now. and want to see a few pics...


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

vw88 said:


> ^^^^^ what did you do to line the single window up into the 16v Dist? i'm doing this now. and want to see a few pics...


I don't have any other pictures but there are a few good diagrams out there on the forms (probably somewhere in this thread). BBM also has a picture explaining how and why to realign it. To help myself I used a marker and considered how many degrees of rotation the ABA window had before reaching sensor and applied the window to the 16v dizzy so that it required the same degrees of rotation when considering it will be spinning opposite direction.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

pcl073 said:


> I don't have any other pictures but there are a few good diagrams out there on the forms (probably somewhere in this thread). BBM also has a picture explaining how and why to realign it. To help myself I used a marker and considered how many degrees of rotation the ABA window had before reaching sensor and applied the window to the 16v dizzy so that it required the same degrees of rotation when considering it will be spinning opposite direction.


do you have the link of the BBM one? i cant fine it.


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## Autounion_77 (May 8, 2008)

I've been hunting this thread for a little while now and I have decided to go the lazy route and just post the question. I'm running an N/A 2.2 ABA 16v in a MkIII GTI that was originally a 2.0 Auto. I am using a 9A head (I know, I know, the PL flows a bit better.. 9A is what I had access to). I am using the 9A GLI manifold, but what throttle body do I use? I know for OBDI you can mod the 16v TB but that wont work on an OBDII car due to the ISV being integrated into the TB.. I have the ability to weld the stock TB holes on the 9A manifold to setup for a different TB but what TB do I use? Something cheap and plug and play would be ideal but a good volume will be important with it being bored and stroked... OBDII VR6 TB? Also is there an alternative to using the BBM fuel rail? I really don't have the kinda $ at the moment.. I've heard that a 1.8T fuel rail might work?... and with the bumped displacement, an ABA 16v chip, and euro intake cam what injectors should I run that are easy to find, fairly cheap, and compatible with OBDII motronic? that ones that would come in the 1.8T rail?


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

Autounion_77 said:


> I've been hunting this thread for a little while now and I have decided to go the lazy route and just post the question. I'm running an N/A 2.2 ABA 16v in a MkIII GTI that was originally a 2.0 Auto. I am using a 9A head (I know, I know, the PL flows a bit better.. 9A is what I had access to). I am using the 9A GLI manifold, but what throttle body do I use? I know for OBDI you can mod the 16v TB but that wont work on an OBDII car due to the ISV being integrated into the TB.. I have the ability to weld the stock TB holes on the 9A manifold to setup for a different TB but what TB do I use? Something cheap and plug and play would be ideal but a good volume will be important with it being bored and stroked... OBDII VR6 TB? Also is there an alternative to using the BBM fuel rail? I really don't have the kinda $ at the moment.. I've heard that a 1.8T fuel rail might work?... and with the bumped displacement, an ABA 16v chip, and euro intake cam what injectors should I run that are easy to find, fairly cheap, and compatible with OBDII motronic? that ones that would come in the 1.8T rail?



you could weld the snout of an aba intake onto your 16v intake and just use the aba TB


because you are N/A you don't need a bigger TB or bigger injectors. you need an aftermarket fuel rail like the BBM one so you can run the aba injectors. a cheap cam upgrade is to modify an exhaust cam and use it as an intake can, it is better than a euro intake cam. you definately will want an aba16v chip to get the most out of your motor.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

Or have one made like mine.


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## Vam0328 (Jul 24, 2011)

So according to this thread in my situation i have an obdii turbo aba complete engine and a 16v head if i get my aba block keeping my stock 82.5 bore and 92.8 stroke, stock aba metal headgasket, and swapping the 8v to 16v i will have a compression ratio of 8.?:1 correct?
I will need to change to 150tooth belt
get a intermidian shaft from 2.0l 16v
get a 2.0l 16v oil pump+gear
get a abf intake+exhaust turbo manifold
what else do i have to change
i have a mk3 alternator set up do i need to change my crank pulley for the accesory belt or is the timing belt pulley that i need to shave 6mm off?
Now for me to do this swap and keep my obdii harnes what do i need to do?

Help will be greatly appreciate it..


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## Vam0328 (Jul 24, 2011)

So according to this thread in my situation i have an obdii turbo aba complete engine and a 16v head if i get my aba block keeping my stock 82.5 bore and 92.8 stroke, stock aba metal headgasket, and swapping the 8v to 16v i will have a compression ratio of 8.?:1 correct?
I will need to change to 150tooth belt
get a intermidiate shaft from 2.0l 16v
get a 2.0l 16v oil pump+gear
get a abf intake+exhaust turbo manifold
what else do i have to change
i have a mk3 alternator set up do i need to change my crank pulley for the accesory belt or is the timing belt pulley that i need to shave 6mm off?
Now for me to do this swap and keep my obdii harnes what do i need to do?

Help will be greatly appreciate it..


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## asumsatlil (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm in the same place, I recently did a obd2 aba swap into my 91 golf. I got the whole mk3 set up except I used my mk2 ps and no a/c. I wanna do the 16v head swap now. Instead of switching out the oil pump, intermediate shaft, and distrubutor I'm going with a dizzy gizzy from what I understand u wouldn't have to switch out anything in the bottom end except pulleys. I'm not too familiar with 16v or 20v engine. I feel like I'm over thinking this whole thing.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Vam0328 said:


> So according to this thread in my situation i have an obdii turbo aba complete engine and a 16v head if i get my aba block keeping my stock 82.5 bore and 92.8 stroke, stock aba metal headgasket, and swapping the 8v to 16v i will have a compression ratio of 8.?:1 correct?
> I will need to change to 150tooth belt
> get a intermidiate shaft from 2.0l 16v
> get a 2.0l 16v oil pump+gear
> ...


If you are goind F/I, you are better off acquiring a custom turbo manifold with US style (ABA / VR6) fuel injector holes (don't remember the technical name right Miau). The thing with the ABF one is that A- are not that easy to find and B- the injectors are quite different to incorporate into a OBD2 ABA engine harness, the ABF is Digi 3 BTW. Technically acquire a 9A block (2.0L 16v engine) and transfer all the required oil pump internalls and either source the ABF crank pulley; or get the one for TT or Bahn Brenner or have a machine shop set up one for you.

Try to use a Mk2 16V intake or an Euro 50 mm intake with modifications for EFI (OBD2 harness intergration) and acquire a adaptor plate so that you can install the ABA OBD2 TB. For the exhaust go with a regular 16V turbo manifold (Ebay?!?).


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

Old Windy said:


> If you are goind F/I, you are better off acquiring a custom turbo manifold with US style (ABA / VR6) fuel injector holes (don't remember the technical name right Miau). The thing with the ABF one is that A- are not that easy to find and B- the injectors are quite different to incorporate into a OBD2 ABA engine harness, the ABF is Digi 3 BTW. Technically acquire a 9A block (2.0L 16v engine) and transfer all the required oil pump internalls and either source the ABF crank pulley; or get the one for TT or Bahn Brenner or have a machine shop set up one for you.
> 
> Try to use a Mk2 16V intake or an Euro 50 mm intake with modifications for EFI (OBD2 harness intergration) and acquire a adaptor plate so that you can install the ABA OBD2 TB. For the exhaust go with a regular 16V turbo manifold (Ebay?!?).


I used a regular 16v turbo manifold off eBay and its not all that bad. Recommend finding one with an angled flange though so that the turbo can sit closer to the cylinder head - I used one with a straight flange and had clearance issues against the firewall with a Turbonetics T3/T4.


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## tahoedub (Mar 28, 2013)

So pretty much read the whole thread but i still have a question. Sorry if this was posted in pages 40-55ish. I have a stock 9a motor and want to build an aba/16v is it possible to use the cis motronic injection system? Seems like it should work especially if I chipped it. Can I mod the fpr or anything else in the fuel system to not starve the motor? This is my first engine build please any help would be much appreciated, I want to do it right the first time and have a strong daily driver.


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## tahoedub (Mar 28, 2013)

Would it be better to start with the block from an audi 80 instead of aba? would it make a difference?


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## tahoedub (Mar 28, 2013)

I can also salvage fuel system parts from the pick and pull so if motronic is the way to go I could always swap another ce2 system in there relatively easily, but i dont want to if i dont have to.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

tahoedub said:


> Would it be better to start with the block from an audi 80 instead of aba? would it make a difference?


Audi 80 used a 3A which is essentially the same block as the 9A so does not have the benefits of the ABA. You can use your CIS- motronic and chip it. It wil still be a 2L so no big mods needed. The real motronic from a mk3 would be better.


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

I did this today to remove the crank gear. Should come in handy. 
Btw, I have a Tdi starter on my car, but a regular one should work.
I locked the breaker bar to the control arm and held it there with a battery so it wouldn't move... enjoy


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

xtremevdub said:


> I did this today to remove the crank gear. Should come in handy.
> Btw, I have a Tdi starter on my car, but a regular one should work.
> I locked the breaker bar to the control arm and held it there with a battery so it wouldn't move... enjoy


What type or from what car you starter came out from? I want to upgrade to a Diesel stareter but have gotten mixed answers on wich one to use for a 02A.


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

Old Windy said:


> What type or from what car you starter came out from? I want to upgrade to a Diesel stareter but have gotten mixed answers on wich one to use for a 02A.


Well, if you have an 02a... you can use any mk4 tdi starter. All the mk4 02j tranny starters will work also. All the mk3 diesels I believe should work too.. :thumbup:
basically that one on the picture. http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/290368207547?lpid=82


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

I wanna add to this thread.. 

If you do deck the HEAD too much if any, you have an odb1 block with dish pistons, And use a *Fiber* head gasket, 
*You WILL end up with pistons touching valves.* Leaving indentations on your pistons. 

In my case, the head valves when fully closed still came past the flat surface of the head by about 0.5mm.
And that was enough to leave small indentations on my pistons.. 
I ended up putting 2 Metal Head gaskets (which seem thicker) to avoid hitting parts. 

Pistons only hit the valves when fully closed so nothing was bent and compression was not affected (thanks god)

*Things to notice:*
With the fiber gasket and higher comp, the car felt really strong, but the sound of metal hitting metal was horrible.

With the 2 metal HG the car makes no sounds at all and is super smooth, but has no balls. I guess is ready for boost. 

Also with using a 1.8t fuel 034 fuel rail and 034 FPR cup the way you think if should go. (fuel entering from the side of the cup and exiting from the bottom to the tank) 
you will end up with over 120psi of fuel pressure going into the pistons.  but on higher RPM's the car pulled pretty good. 
When I flipped the cup (41psi now) the car is incredibly smooth but no balls up top.
This is with a 3.0 bar FPR. 
I wonder if a 3.5 would do any good?


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Hey guys, I'm using the BBM kit to do my 16v head swap. I'm using the throttle body adapter to use my 2.0 throttle body and I was wondering if the stock throttle cable would be long enough. I'm also using the scirocco manifold so the intake inlet is on the driver side now instead of the passenger side like stock. Thanks guys.


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

Adubbed said:


> Hey guys, I'm using the BBM kit to do my 16v head swap. I'm using the throttle body adapter to use my 2.0 throttle body and I was wondering if the stock throttle cable would be long enough. I'm also using the scirocco manifold so the intake inlet is on the driver side now instead of the passenger side like stock. Thanks guys.


I'm fairly certain it will be long enough, especially using scirocco manifold.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

pcl073 said:


> I'm fairly certain it will be long enough, especially using scirocco manifold.


Thank you. :beer:


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Just wanted to give a heads up to anyone that was thinking about running an ABF distributor. I finnaly was able to get one (with help from XtremeDub) and installed it and replacing my USDM 16v converted distributor. Rigth from the start the difference in performance was notable, form a quicker start up and a smoother power delivery; quicker response and from what I can tell better iddling.


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

*2.3lt aba16v*

old windy how did you stretch your aba block out to 2.3lt ?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

leon whalen said:


> old windy how did you stretch your aba block out to 2.3lt ?


I needed to bore out the block to that size because those were the size of the 1st set of ABF pistons I was able to get my hands on. IIRC they were 83.55mm in size (oversize pistons) had to get a second set because one of the oil rings was lost at the machine shop and acquiring Kolbenschidt rings this side of the pond proved difficlult; in the end I got a second set for less thatn a set of custom made rings for the original Kolbenschmidt set. If I find pictures of them I will post them up latter.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

with a 95.5 crank you would have 2094cc, with a 99 crank you would have 2171cc.


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## pcl073 (Dec 29, 2007)

Old Windy said:


> Just wanted to give a heads up to anyone that was thinking about running an ABF distributor. I finnaly was able to get one (with help from XtremeDub) and installed it and replacing my USDM 16v converted distributor. Rigth from the start the difference in performance was notable, form a quicker start up and a smoother power delivery; quicker response and from what I can tell better iddling.


That's awesome - where did you end up finding it? I can only find ones on Ebay for $170 Euro.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

vwpat said:


> with a 95.5 crank you would have 2094cc, with a 99 crank you would have 2171cc.


IIRC the machine shop did something else with the crank. I do remember that the original OBD1 ABA crank had to be replaced due to some scratches and they had in the shop (I did not ask why) apparently from a TDI. (I never got to personally see it I just told them to use it and balance the block and do the head work). He did state that it was 2.2L when I picked it up. Wish I could remember exactly but this was 3 years ago (yes It took me a good time to complete this engine and with all the things that wend wrong I have enough spares to make another one minus the ABF intake). :banghead:



pcl073 said:


> That's awesome - where did you end up finding it? I can only find ones on Ebay for $170 Euro.


It was on www.ebay.uk Some of them are good and they will ship it over; some other guys don't do this. In fact I have seem them around $50 to $90 shipped. Mine was like $120 shipped. The shipping is the key.


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

2.15678L....much better your build looks great, you must be glad to finally have it running. it would be great to see some dyno #s from it. or get it down the 1/4 mile for some time slips:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

leon whalen said:


> 2.15678L....much better your build looks great, you must be glad to finally have it running. it would be great to see some dyno #s from it. or get it down the 1/4 mile for some time slips:thumbup::thumbup:


It will go on the dyno once I have finished dealing with all the minor things that have showed up. Good thing is that I finally have it drivable and reliable. It has been fun and after installing the ABF Distributor, it made it a blast to drive. My mechanic that had to finish the build for me (got married a year ago....) has described it as having some sort of VTEC after 3K. I originally had it running on Digi1 and it pulled like mad, but I had not electronics, or gauges working and to make it compatible with the OBD2 stuff was going to be quite a hassle. Hence why I got the ABF intake, injectors and now the distributor with a VR6 TB and MAF and some sort of regular 8V neuspeed chip. Mind you I went from TT 268's to Schrick 268's and it made quite the difference in idle and power. Before with the TT it was all power at WOT, with the Shcrick 268's it opens up at 3K all the way to 8K (that is as far as I'm willing to take it), it do more in theory but I'm not willing to do that. Good thing is that it has been broken in (1,000 miles and counting) but now I have to change the rack because it's leaking on both sides and I hate leaks....:banghead::banghead:

I have a few idle videos from the beginning to now and you can tell the difference. Just a little more tuning and it will be set. Now after the required rack repair I will concentrate on suspension, paint and then enjoy it. Even with the A/C on you can tell that it does have decent power.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Dropped the car off at the shop this morning. Very excited for this swap


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## clevebb (Feb 2, 2009)

How long did the shop estimate it will take? 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Congrats, reminds me of when I picked up my disassembled engine from the machine shop. 
Also what are you exactly dropping off? I assume you are keeping the 020. 



#


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

clevebb said:


> How long did the shop estimate it will take?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


I asked around a few different places and they all hovered around 10 shop hours. I ended up taking it to German Auto Pros in Northeast Ohio, very reputable place. They didn't give me a set amount of time but I'd guess they'd have it about a week or two, they are pretty busy there.



Old Windy said:


> Congrats, reminds me of when I picked up my disassembled engine from the machine shop.
> Also what are you exactly dropping off? I assume you are keeping the 020.
> 
> 
> ...


Dropping off the car to get the head put on. My next project is figuring out what to do with that transmission. Iv'e heard good things and bad things about the 020.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Adubbed said:


> My next project is figuring out what to do with that transmission. Iv'e heard good things and bad things about the 020.


It depends, but for me after having 4 020 randomly sending out bits and pieces of the 3rd gear into the differential and or getting stuck in third I went 02A but I do recommend going after a mk4 one and do the whole shifter and transmission conversion for the availability of short shifters and better feeling. I have a mk3 VR6 shifter and cables and a Passat 02A with VR6 gears and a LSD. Was able to get an RSD short shifter a few years ago and a Gruven Parts 02A cable short shifter kit and it's supper nice, similar to the USRD shifter set up.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Shouldn't the aba head bolts work for the 16v head?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Adubbed said:


> Shouldn't the aba head bolts work for the 16v head?


No, head bolts have to match the head so you have to use 16V head bolts.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

What did you guys do as far as timing covers go? I guess the ABA one won't fit over the 16v gears. I'm thinking an ABF one MIGHT work but will be a total PITA to find.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Adubbed said:


> What did you guys do as far as timing covers go? I guess the ABA one won't fit over the 16v gears. I'm thinking an ABF one MIGHT work but will be a total PITA to find.


ABF Cambelt cover. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390686556252 




#


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## docterelliott (Sep 29, 2007)

Does anybody know how much to deck the block to raise the CR one? Considering an n/a build. I have an obd1 mk3 jetta and a complete 16v head and 16v pistons. Id like to keep it a stock 10:1 cr. Also what would be a good head build to achieve ~175 hp? Im kind of co fused with some of this info...from what ive read i take it that an ABA block, ABF pistons, and 16v head, makes almost as much power as a vr6?


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Looking great so far.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

docterelliott said:


> Does anybody know how much to deck the block to raise the CR one? Considering an n/a build. I have an obd1 mk3 jetta and a complete 16v head and 16v pistons. Id like to keep it a stock 10:1 cr. Also what would be a good head build to achieve ~175 hp? Im kind of co fused with some of this info...from what ive read i take it that an ABA block, ABF pistons, and 16v head, makes almost as much power as a vr6?


You'd really have to take it to a machine shop to get a good idea. I know some places will do it cheap, but others will ask for an arm and a leg. As far as the 16v pistons I believe(others will know for sure) that ABF pistons and 9A pistons will work in the ABA. A stock euro ABF is said to make 150bhp. I think the 12v's are 172bhp?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

docterelliott said:


> Does anybody know how much to deck the block to raise the CR one? Considering an n/a build. I have an obd1 mk3 jetta and a complete 16v head and 16v pistons. Id like to keep it a stock 10:1 cr. Also what would be a good head build to achieve ~175 hp? Im kind of co fused with some of this info...from what ive read i take it that an ABA block, ABF pistons, and 16v head, makes almost as much power as a vr6?


According to the side that did get it as an OEM engine, DIGI3 specific chip and a cat delete gets the ABF up to VR6 power levels. I still have to Dyno mine but I have some other things to fix first. It's an old VW car after all.

On the topic of what you have asked; 
See if the OBD1 block you have has the oil injectors and forged internals. 
I used a 9A head because it was what I had at the time.
Compression: If you use 9A OEM pistons (they need to be modified or is it the rod that has to be modified I can't remember) it yields a 9:1 compression. ABF pistons (OEM size) gets you 10:1 compression which is what the ABF has a factory compression. If you want to seriously raise compression you are going to run into the need to use higher octane gas. You can also try to get lucky and acquire a Diesel Crankshaft to increase your stroke.

I can't remember were I read it but the 9A pistons can get you up to around 140-150 ish HP ( this is from a DYNO that was done on a MK4 16v swap with an AEG block and 9A pistons and head). It all depends on what do you want to do in the end. I just wanted to have something that was close to VR6 power without the weight of the VR6 and a more reliable transmission (I broke 4.5 020 transmission on a lightly modified 8v ABA). When I broke my last 020 transmission (I never raced it because it was still an 8V), I had a 9A engine lying around and one of my friends pushed me to go ahead and build an ABF clone since I had everything else including the pistons minus the intake to do it and I was already going to install a 02A so I just went ahead and did it.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Adubbed said:


> Looking great so far.


What kind of header are you using? Did you run into any clearance issues around the wall? I see a regular 16v distributor; are you converting it with the ABA distributor?


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Old Windy said:


> What kind of header are you using? Did you run into any clearance issues around the wall? I see a regular 16v distributor; are you converting it with the ABA distributor?


I used the raceland mk3 16v Jetta header, believe it or not they sell it, and yes the answer is the 180$ header fits like complete $h**. We have to trim the header down a little and move the cat further back some to get it to fit. Before the head was fully on it rubbed a little but looks fine now. As far as the distributor goes, I got the BBM kit which comes with the intermediate shaft and "dizzy grizzy" so I can run the 16v distributor.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Adubbed said:


> I used the raceland mk3 16v Jetta header, believe it or not they sell it, and yes the answer is the 180$ header fits like complete $h**. We have to trim the header down a little and move the cat further back some to get it to fit. Before the head was fully on it rubbed a little but looks fine now. As far as the distributor goes, I got the BBM kit which comes with the intermediate shaft and "dizzy grizzy" so I can run the 16v distributor.


Same one I'm running; And it appears that you had better luck than I did when it came out to clearance. The best one is the Supersprint header but the cost makes it unobtanium since it is only available in Europe. 
As for the distributor; if you plan on running it with the OBD2 engine management you will need a chip and to swap the Hall Sender with the ABA distributor one so that you can use the 16v distributor with the OBD2 ABA Bosch Motronic management.


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Old Windy said:


> Same one I'm running; And it appears that you had better luck than I did when it came out to clearance. The best one is the Supersprint header but the cost makes it unobtanium since it is only available in Europe.
> As for the distributor; if you plan on running it with the OBD2 engine management you will need a chip and to swap the Hall Sender with the ABA distributor one so that you can use the 16v distributor with the OBD2 ABA Bosch Motronic management.


Thanks for the heads up. I'm giving techtonics tuning a try for the chip. I gave them a ring and they had a few good layouts already mapped out for the ABA 16v. I got a 7,500rpm limit which I'm happy with although I would've hoped dor a little more with the 260-276 cams.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Adubbed said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I'm giving techtonics tuning a try for the chip. I gave them a ring and they had a few good layouts already mapped out for the ABA 16v. I got a 7,500rpm limit which I'm happy with although I would've hoped dor a little more with the 260-276 cams.


Is it running yet?


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

Old Windy said:


> Is it running yet?


Yeah it's running pretty well. We left the ABA pistons in for now if I want to run forced incduction in the future. It took a while to get the distributor aligned properly. I also had to deal with a fuel line tear, BBM goofed and sent a 3/8 fitting for the fuel rail while the stock outlet is a 5/16, so we had a 5/16 line stretched over a 3/8 fitting. Switching to steel braided line just to play it safe.


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## scirocconaut (Oct 7, 2011)

Having a difficult time finding the info I need in a search
And I have read this faq and others a billion times til I'm dizzy 
Specs:
97 aba obd2 2.0
16v PL head
2.0 9a 16v intermediate shaft & 9a oil pump 
*1.8 16v PL intermediate shaft timing belt sprocket*
1.8 PL timing belt pulley on crank
1.8 PL timing belt pulley on head 

I have heard the 9a IM sprocket is smaller than the PL one
Would I need to change to the 9a one? or would I risk 
Starving my motor of oil? I have the 9a pump so it pumps more
But I have heard that's only because of the smaller pulley 

And if I can use the PL IM shaft timing pulley;
What belt would work (as it is longer than 153 teeth) ?

Much appreciation


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

scirocconaut said:


> Having a difficult time finding the info I need in a search
> And I have read this faq and others a billion times til I'm dizzy
> Specs:
> 97 aba obd2 2.0
> ...


I heard the 1.8t belt should work.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

scirocconaut said:


> Having a difficult time finding the info I need in a search
> And I have read this faq and others a billion times til I'm dizzy
> Specs:
> 97 aba obd2 2.0
> ...


If possible try to stick to all 9a, also there is a guy in the engine classifieds that sells the Contitech belt for ABF. I'm currently running all from a 9A with a Kent ABF Belt (it was the only one available when I was finished).


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## Adubbed (May 23, 2012)

I have a few quick questions;
-Motor mounts: which ones did you guys use/recommend. I'm on the stock mounts now and the 16v head seems to have a lot more of a natural force on the motor mounts.
-Headers: I have the raceland 16v header and it gets HOT. I have no heat shield and was wondering if a wrap and heat shield would help cut down on the radiating heat. Considering a stock 16v downpipe and heat shield at this point. Engine temp. is good however.


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## xtremevdub (Jun 26, 2004)

Adubbed said:


> I have a few quick questions;
> -Motor mounts: which ones did you guys use/recommend. I'm on the stock mounts now and the 16v head seems to have a lot more of a natural force on the motor mounts.
> -Headers: I have the raceland 16v header and it gets HOT. I have no heat shield and was wondering if a wrap and heat shield would help cut down on the radiating heat. Considering a stock 16v downpipe and heat shield at this point. Engine temp. is good however.


This is for a mk3, right? BFi mounts seem to work great. 
And wrapping and a shield would help a lot! Mine shield less was stupid hot. So I made my own out of a mk4 2.0 heat shield. Looks really clean.


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## Traffic Jam Zombie (Dec 3, 2001)

I've been trying to build this motor over the last couple years and am finally nearing completion. I'd held off posting anything here until getting to the piping fabrication - which started last week - so I feel that this is worthy of contributing to this thread. 

The car is a 1975 Rabbit and is a rescue from a local Pull-a-Part. My friends found it as it came in and bought it before it hit the scrap yard. It was a complete car minus the seats, and it changed hands a few times before it came to me. 

There are many other mods to the body/suspension/interior, but here's a quick list of my drivetrain setup:
•	ABA block – OBD1
•	New OEM pistons
•	Stock Rods
•	New bearings/seals
•	BFI turbo oil pan
•	9a 16v head
•	New guides, new stock valves, new stock springs
•	Stock cams
•	AEB 1.8T breather box to custom catch can
•	580cc injectors
•	Custom SRI manifold/fuel rail with 70mm t/b
•	Custom log manifold
•	Garrett t3/t4 .52 trim turbo
•	TiAL 38mm w/g with exhaust reroute
•	TiAL 50mm BOV
•	JEGS aluminum radiator w/slim fan
•	FMIC w/2.5” aluminum piping
•	3” stainless v-band DP
•	3” stainless v-band exhaust
•	Braided stainless fuel lines, tank to fuel rail
•	Aeromotive FPR
•	Stock Bosch fuel pump
•	ABF alternator setup
•	Stock mounts (although I have new BFI Stage II green mounts if needed)
•	o2a transmission w/stock differential
•	Cable shift, Eurovan actuator, and Honda CRX clutch cable
•	MkI WRD rear & side transmission mounts
•	Megasquirt 2.2 w/launch control & boost control 
•	Innovate LM-1 wideband 
•	Autotech 10mm Shock Therapy Wires
•	Mallory HyFire VI ignition box
•	Mallory ProMaster ignition coil

And here are a couple pics of the car and the initial progress mapped out thus far. We're waiting for the DP flange to arrive to begin fabbing up the DP & exhaust, which should begin next week.

Also, the 1st SRI was determined to be unusable.  It belonged to my buddy Brendon, but the runners were too long and only provided only 1/4" hood clearance (he was running on a 9a motor, which is 'shorter' than the ABA/16v I've built). Fortunately Jake (my fab guy at JRM Fabrication) had a few other manifolds to choose from (see final pic) and though I'll lose a little torque, I don't think it'll be noticeable overall.


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## plastic_bullet (Mar 11, 2006)

Subscribed.


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## TooClutchVW (Apr 9, 2004)

Anyone running a 150tooth belt have an issue with the belt trying to walk off the pulleys? Bein trying to diagnos this issue for weeks


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## 9aba16vt (Feb 28, 2011)

Thats funny.. I thought I was the only one with this issue... 
The belt seems to want to come off the cam gear, and then I see wear on the outside of the belt as if the crank pulley is eating at it.


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## Blkdubs (Jan 7, 2015)

So I am a little confused at this point. There are so many directions people have gone in this thread. I am running a rebuilt stock Aba block with a 2.0 16v head. I have turbo plans in the near future. I had the head stripped and dipped. Ported and polished. I am running a full obdII Aba harness. And Aba management. I was wondering if I should use the bbm dizzy grizzy or use the 16v distributer? 


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Blkdubs said:


> So I am a little confused at this point. There are so many directions people have gone in this thread. I am running a rebuilt stock Aba block with a 2.0 16v head. I have turbo plans in the near future. I had the head stripped and dipped. Ported and polished. I am running a full obdII Aba harness. And Aba management. I was wondering if I should use the bbm dizzy grizzy or use the 16v distributer?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk


You still run the 16V dizzy, the dizzy gizzy is to drive the oil pump.


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## Blkdubs (Jan 7, 2015)

Ok thank you. 


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## blue plates (Apr 12, 2014)

What needs to be machined on the AAZ crank to get it to fit in an ABA and does anything need to be done to the 9a IM shaft?


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

i'm back at it again. stay tuned. i'll get pics of my set up soon. 
N/A aba 16v running on OBD2.


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## Mk2ryan (Jun 22, 2013)

i bought a msd coil for my mk3 aba not installed yet, i can still use it when i swap to a 16v head or do i need a coil for a 16v?


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## clevebb (Feb 2, 2009)

Mk2ryan said:


> i bought a msd coil for my mk3 aba not installed yet, i can still use it when i swap to a 16v head or do i need a coil for a 16v?


Wow, that's me! I have an MSD in the trunk and a 16v head in the garage. Any coil will work. Enjoy!


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

any one have any 9a parts? looking for 9a IM shaft.


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## Dyelon (Jul 31, 2006)

So if all goes well Ill be the second owner of a low mile Jetta GT. I've read through most of the posts, but I may have missed something. If/when I do an ABA 16v will simply buying the BBM kit be all that I need to make it work? Or will I need more stuff? Forgive my ignorance but I am normally a VR guy. TIA.


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

Dyelon said:


> So if all goes well Ill be the second owner of a low mile Jetta GT. I've read through most of the posts, but I may have missed something. If/when I do an ABA 16v will simply buying the BBM kit be all that I need to make it work? Or will I need more stuff? Forgive my ignorance but I am normally a VR guy. TIA.


The BBM kit does get you to like 75% there it just deals with the most annoying parts of the conversion unless you are a masochist purist << and want a real 16v oil pump and all 16v related things inside the block. You still will need a head, intake, TB adapter plate, modified ignition (if keeping the bosh motronic ECM). Also you will need pistons unless you decide to go FI in the future and keep the ABA ones or source 9A pistons and modify them to fit into the ABA block (something needed to be done I just don't remember what now). And also a chip for the ECM. I remember after I finished my engine and forgot about the coolant hoses....:banghead: pretty fun weekend at Autozone asking for items and the counter guy looking at me as If I was proposing to him to perform some sort of debauchery on the counter.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

Old Windy said:


> The BBM kit does get you to like 75% there it just deals with the most annoying parts of the conversion unless you are a masochist purist << and want a real 16v oil pump and all 16v related things inside the block. You still will need a head, intake, TB adapter plate, modified ignition (if keeping the bosh motronic ECM). Also you will need pistons unless you decide to go FI in the future and keep the ABA ones or source 9A pistons and modify them to fit into the ABA block (something needed to be done I just don't remember what now). And also a chip for the ECM. I remember after I finished my engine and forgot about the coolant hoses....:banghead: pretty fun weekend at Autozone asking for items and the counter guy looking at me as If I was proposing to him to perform some sort of debauchery on the counter.


To run 9a 16v pistons you have to use aba rods. 20mm wrist pins. Press 20mm rod bushings for the wrist pins into the aba rods. Normally some decking on the block and head is needed to get a functional Compression Ratio to run n/a. I have had success with decking the head 35 thousands. And removing the 1mm thick metal spacer in the stock aba mls head gasket. Runs great.

Also don't forget. If running FI you'll need a abf dizzy, or a stock 16v dizzy modded to single window.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

By "sprocket", are you talking about the gear at the intermediate (IM) shaft for the oil pump or the cogged timing belt pulley? 

The gear must match the IM (9A to 9A). The 9A (2.0L) oil pump is actually higher volume (taller internal gears) than the PL (1.8L) oil pump, but splines the same way to the gear. The matched IM shafts and gears themselves are different because the 9A IM shaft and pump gear were redesigned and clearanced for the #3 rod (IIRC) to accommodate the longer stroke of a 2L crankshaft.

The 9A and PL IM shaft cogged timing belt pulley diameters are the exactly the same overdrive (relative to an 8V) AFAIK. If the PL cogged timing belt pulley actually fits the 9A IM shaft (and I don't think I ever tried it, but it's possible that they attach differently), there's no other reason I can think of not to use it. Both are undersized compared to 8V pulleys in order to speed up the 16V oil pump since there was no longer any IM driven distributor and VW initially chose to use the same gears (i.e., pump volume) inside the oil pumps for both 8V and 16V (which needs more oil flow to the head for the extra cam, etc.).



scirocconaut said:


> Having a difficult time finding the info I need in a search
> And I have read this faq and others a billion times til I'm dizzy
> Specs:
> 97 aba obd2 2.0
> ...


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

block mount distributor can be done with a:
1.8L 8v distributor and a TT adapter and aba gear or a stock audi 3a distributor 
aba oil pump
aba im shaft with the key way milled out
cam drive gear with spacer on the aba im shaft
153 t 1.8T timing belt
fiat distributor cap.

a trick from megasquirt to make a 4 window distributor work as a cam sensor is to cut 3 of the 4 tabs off. then phase the rising or falling edge where the ecu is looking for the signal change. easier than sourcing a abf or fabing a aba16v distributor.

and when your ready to ditch the spark plug wires, drink a beer and do this with the can


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## jagdpanther9 (Mar 14, 2015)

I have a mk1 gti. I have a 2.0 aba with a 16valve head. could I run the cis fuel system that my car has ? could I run the 2.0 aba clutch and flywheel with my 020 trans and starter ?


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

yes:wave:
the issue is the pluming parts to make a 16v fit with the cis are hard to come by, only from a scirocco 16v
there is alot of gains to be had by modernizing the management but it can run on cis.

only consideration on the 020 tranny is what diameter input shaft diameter you have.


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## jagdpanther9 (Mar 14, 2015)

so just use the 020 clutch plate with the 2.0 flywheel and pp?starter should work? Its hard t let the cis system go cause well, it works. I suppose the 16v rocco intakes are rare as hens teeth?

Tank You


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

jagdpanther9 said:


> so just use the 020 clutch plate with the 2.0 flywheel and pp?starter should work? Its hard t let the cis system go cause well, it works. I suppose the 16v rocco intakes are rare as hens teeth?
> 
> Tank You


Starter will work fine (ABAs used O2Os also) but as weeble said check the input shaft of the tranny. If you are using an ABA disc, only a mk3 or 16V tranny will work because those have the larger input shaft. If you are using anything else, just swap the disc to a mk2 8V unit. Rocco intakes are around but some people charge quite a bit for them.


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## jagdpanther9 (Mar 14, 2015)

i found a 1.8 16v rocco engine i sold 10 years ago still sitting in the guys garage where i dropped it off :screwy: so have an intake. could i use my 8v 1.8 dist. in this 2.0 and solve my dist./ oil pump drive problem?


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## jagdpanther9 (Mar 14, 2015)

ok so back to my belts and pulleys I have none. so without reading this whole thread where is my best place to get my pulleys and belts. a friend said to use them and the alternator from a vr6 and then what for the cam gear?

thank you please and stuff =D


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

Quick question for anyone who knows about OBD2. Will not having a single window dizzy on OBD2 throw it in a limo mode? My car has been running. Haven't really driven it. But when I do drive it. It has no power. Just really.... Sluggish. I'm pretty sure it's cause it's not sensing a cam sensor. But not 100% sure.


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## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

The abf motronic has crankshaft signal and hall signal. No camshaft signal.

Did you get a chip made to put inside your aba ecm?

I do have all oem abf swap related parts available for sale. Even the immu ecm . Harness and transponder keys if you need to go back to stock euro engine management


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

vw88 said:


> Quick question for anyone who knows about OBD2. Will not having a single window dizzy on OBD2 throw it in a limo mode? My car has been running. Haven't really driven it. But when I do drive it. It has no power. Just really.... Sluggish. I'm pretty sure it's cause it's not sensing a cam sensor. But not 100% sure.


Have you checked your timing? Mine was a little sluggish at first but after adjusting the then 9A distributor it worked a little bit better. I later swapped into an ABF one, now I have a gradual power pick up till 3,000 rpm then after that it's like VTEC (a sudden power burst all the way to 8k RPM).


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

vw88 said:


> Quick question for anyone who knows about OBD2. Will not having a single window dizzy on OBD2 throw it in a limo mode? My car has been running. Haven't really driven it. But when I do drive it. It has no power. Just really.... Sluggish. I'm pretty sure it's cause it's not sensing a cam sensor. But not 100% sure.


The distributor on OBD1 and OBD2 ABAs is used as the cam sensor. That single window tells the ECU when TDC has been reached, and that signal allows the sequential injection to function. Without that CPS (VW calls it that), it runs in batch fire fueling, and you will be down on timing. It needs that single window wheel and the crank trigger to function properly.

Did you wire in the OBD2 port to check the codes? That'll say for sure.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

134hpvw said:


> The abf motronic has crankshaft signal and hall signal. No camshaft signal.
> 
> Did you get a chip made to put inside your aba ecm?
> 
> I do have all oem abf swap related parts available for sale. Even the immu ecm . Harness and transponder keys if you need to go back to stock euro engine management


The 'hall signal' IS the camshaft signal .


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## Bubble (Jan 3, 2014)

What about this? http://instagram.com/p/x5TUraqKZd/ I saw a post a while back and this part was mentioned. Using a 1.8t cam sensor with single hall window.


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## cyberstasi (Apr 20, 2010)

xtremevdub said:


> I put a TDI starter on my friends cabriolet with a 2.0 passat 16v on it.
> His car was really high compression and the regular starter was having issues getting the car going.. with the HUGE diesel starter the car cranked like butter!!!
> overkill and a half. :laugh:


I love the idea of putting a gauge on the fuel rail for being able to check the pressure instantly. 
Also, There's no problem using a TDI starter? What trans was used? If I could do that with my O2A trans that'd be awesome.


As for the rest of the thread though...

2.0 obd1 aba & 1.8 16V PL

I've just read through all 90 pages of this thread and I have a few things that arent clear to me. Mostly because Ive read contradicting information between the first 30 or so pages and the next 30 or so pages. I dont know if I'm just reading it wrong... or what. And obviously after reading 90 pages I probably missed a post or two which might have answered my questions.




I have a complete 1.8L 8v PG long block, 1.8L 16v PL long block, and 1.8L 8v obd1 ABA long block, So I'm just trying to figure out what would be the eaisest build. Not looking for stupid high HP numbers, just a nice running motor. I have a Lysholm Twin Screw Charger in my Corrado right now, so eventually I'll be bolting that onto the motor I'm building.

My current plan seems to be the PL head on the ABA block.


Oil Pump:

Comments were made about using the 9A oil pump in the block instead of the aba one due to the distributer gear.

Everyone here has been talking about using the 9A head, how does this change if I'm using a PL head? I know if you're building a PL/PG hybrid you can just swap the intermediate shaft without issue between the two. What exactly is the answer if you're doing a PL/ABA hybrid? Do I need to source a 9A oil pump/


Throttle body:

The Original post says "G60 or Automatic 16V"... so does that mean the G60 one has to be automatic G60 or can it be from a manual G60? I've got a few of those lying around, and I'd prefer to not have to buy another TB.


Considerations for high boost:

First post talks about 'mild boost' and 'high boost' but no one has commented on what ranges they denote to that. 
My Lysholm charger right now in my Corrado has the 22+PSI Pulley currently, most people are talking about setups running 15PSI. So do most poeple here consider 15psi mild or high? When terms are used without being defined well... it makes it hard to know whats what. And before someone comments of 'what do you think high boost is?' it doesnt matter what I think it is since I'm not the one who's made the recommendation on what to use for 'high boost'.


Cams:

I've seen very little talk about using different Cams in the 16v head. Anyone have any suggestions for a boosted motor? Some people have commented that stock aba bottom end means you cant use cams because you'll bend a valve. Others have mentioned that the Euro intake cam is ok but doesnt cause a problem. I'd rather not drop 650$ on new pistons if I dont have to.
Are there any options for the exhaust cam that dont require new pistons?

If the heavy foot wins out over the wallet and I do go with new pistons with the valve reliefs cut into them, what cams would be the best option on a boosted motor?


Injectors:

30lb or 42lb?

Pulleys:

Comments have been made about how you need to get an adapter pulley for the aba bottom end, but I havent seen anyone link to a specific pulley for the job.
At one point half a page was dedicated to people flaming people for "not reading the first post". Yet when I read the first post this is all I see:
"ABA Crank Pulley-needs to be machined down"
So where is this pulley that everyone was yelling at people to go read about in the first post? I believe BBM sells an option, but i couldnt find it when I looked on their site the other day.


Other random questions:

Since the aba pistons are dished... would an obd1 aba stock bottom with a PL stock head still be an interence motor? I know the 16V PL motor is in its stock form.

I'm considering putting in High Rev Valve Springs, are the titanium caps 100% required, or one of those things that it just makes sense to do while you're in there if you have the extra cash? I dont have the spare money to do a complete build on the head, just want the extra security of knowing I wont have valve float if I ever do rev a bit high. I dont plan on routinely running that high, but I'd rather have the safety net than to bend a valve.


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## maketoast (Mar 7, 2009)

vw88 said:


> To run 9a 16v pistons you have to use aba rods. 20mm wrist pins. Press 20mm rod bushings for the wrist pins into the aba rods. Normally some decking on the block and head is needed to get a functional Compression Ratio to run n/a. I have had success with decking the head 35 thousands. And removing the 1mm thick metal spacer in the stock aba mls head gasket. Runs great.
> 
> Also don't forget. If running FI you'll need a abf dizzy, or a stock 16v dizzy modded to single window.


Been searching for a few days and THIS is what I've been looking for.
I have a 16v ABA motor that was built for mild boost... currently it's a 2.0 ABA block, 2.0 16v head and 9a pistons with an ABA MLS headgasket. However, plans have changed and I want to run it N/A.

Any idea what your compression ratio is with the head decked and with the spacer removed? 
I thought about removing the spacer only... any idea what kind of compression I'd have without decking the head, but still removing the spacer?


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

maketoast said:


> Been searching for a few days and THIS is what I've been looking for.
> I have a 16v ABA motor that was built for mild boost... currently it's a 2.0 ABA block, 2.0 16v head and 9a pistons with an ABA MLS headgasket. However, plans have changed and I want to run it N/A.
> 
> Any idea what your compression ratio is with the head decked and with the spacer removed?
> I thought about removing the spacer only... any idea what kind of compression I'd have without decking the head, but still removing the spacer?


Just remove the spacer and run a regular ABA headgasket. With the 9A pistons and without the spacer you should be around a 9 to 9.5 in compression. The ABF was a 10 to 1 from the factory FYI. I would just give the head a proper cleaning and a good P&P, I would not deck a 16v head. But that is just me.
Also if you have the 9A distributor modified into single hall; play around with it till you find the proper location that better suits you taste, when I had the 9A installed, it was adjusted for power over the 3K range, the ABF distributor is a fixed type unlike the 9A and the distributor makes the adjustments that I didn't feel the changeover in power on the engine unlike the manualy adjusted 9A distributor.


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## maketoast (Mar 7, 2009)

Ok, so it sounds like it would be a little less powerful but drivable nonetheless. The head was rebuilt with a 3 angle valve job... I'm just trying to figure out how much power I'll have at that compression.

Any reason you're against decking the head? I'd be a little nervous on clearances I guess, but if others have done it... I'd like to consider that option.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

maketoast said:


> Ok, so it sounds like it would be a little less powerful but drivable nonetheless. The head was rebuilt with a 3 angle valve job... I'm just trying to figure out how much power I'll have at that compression.
> 
> Any reason you're against decking the head? I'd be a little nervous on clearances I guess, but if others have done it... I'd like to consider that option.
> 
> ...


The difference is not going to be that noticeable to your but dyno. Reason I would be careful about the head is that you might take it out of spec and make it a little weak assuming that the head that you have a head that is virgin in this perspective. Out of a money perspective; if you want some incremental gains I would advise that you spend your money on some cams and goodies for the valves (springs, titanium lightweight stuff etc). I didn't decked my head because the machine shop recommended me to but ended doing everything else. I did try out a set of TT 276 cams but they were to aggressive and the valves left impressions on the top of the pistons; I then ended up with a set of Schrick 268 Cams that ended up being a better more refined set up from what I experience in every day driving vs the TT set up. Mind you I did keep all the accessories and A/C on my car, I rather have a nice comfy drive :laugh:


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## starksan (Mar 30, 2013)

weeblebiker said:


> block mount distributor can be done with a:
> 1.8L 8v distributor and a TT adapter and aba gear or a stock audi 3a distributor
> aba oil pump
> aba im shaft with the key way milled out
> ...


This is very educational.
I was gonna get a polo cam sensor, but this will do. 
(=^x^=)


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

starksan said:


> This is very educational.
> I was gonna get a polo cam sensor, but this will do.
> (=^x^=)


what is this Polo cam sensor you speak of?


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## 1slowVW (Sep 28, 2005)

Dirty ABA block, pulled the pan hoping to find oil squirters and didn't....oh well I'll run it until it blows and then find an early obd1 block. 










Combine that with a few more dirty parts and I should be good to go. 










The only part that really phases me is the distributor. I'm really hoping I can Cut a few windows off of the 16v dist, re-synch it as weeblebiker stated above and rock and OBD2 ABA16vT.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

1slowVW said:


> Dirty ABA block, pulled the pan hoping to find oil squirters and didn't....oh well I'll run it until it blows and then find an early obd1 block.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Swap the trigger wheels on the dizzies. Are you using motronic on the 16V? The 16V has 4 windows while the Aba has 1. You can add the squirters to any block. The galley is there.


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## 1slowVW (Sep 28, 2005)

vwpat said:


> Swap the trigger wheels on the dizzies. Are you using motronic on the 16V? The 16V has 4 windows while the Aba has 1. You can add the squirters to any block. The galley is there.



Yes the car is currently running motronic and I would very much like to keep it. I'm aware that the 16v has 4 windows, but as stated by weeblebiker if the Megasquirt guys can trim off a few "tabs" and re synch so the sensor falls in the right place then that saves me having to cannibalize an aba distributor.....doesn't it?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

1slowVW said:


> Yes the car is currently running motronic and I would very much like to keep it. I'm aware that the 16v has 4 windows, but as stated by weeblebiker if the Megasquirt guys can trim off a few "tabs" and re synch so the sensor falls in the right place then that saves me having to cannibalize an aba distributor.....doesn't it?


But you have 4 and need 1 so if anything you need to cover 3 up, not trim more.
I went and read what he wrote on the other page, it may work. I am not sure exactly what the motronic cam sensor is looking for. I would not do that but it may work.


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## 1slowVW (Sep 28, 2005)

vwpat said:


> But you have 4 and need 1 so if anything you need to cover 3 up, not trim more.
> I went and read what he wrote on the other page, it may work. I am not sure exactly what the motronic cam sensor is looking for. I would not do that but it may work.


Whoa man, I hear what you're laying down. I thought the sensor was looking for the metal, when in fact it's looking for the lack of metal "the window" as it were. I think you are correct. I'll have a 16v distributor in hand next week and I should have time to examine my ABA one tomorrow. If I can ad pics here to help the next person out I will (that is if anyone else is still playing with this old stuff).


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## justin_6649 (Aug 19, 2007)

vwpat said:


> But you have 4 and need 1 so if anything you need to cover 3 up, not trim more.


if you can find a 1.8 cl mk3 (mono-motronic) im pretty sure those are 1 window distributors so it just becomes another case of vw lego


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

justin_6649 said:


> if you can find a 1.8 cl mk3 (mono-motronic) im pretty sure those are 1 window distributors so it just becomes another case of vw lego


What benefit would that be? ABAs are 1 window.


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## dubinprogress (Apr 9, 2006)

Custom 16v Aba parts just finished up.


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## 8vlove12 (Jan 8, 2008)

If i have done this swap in a 97 tdi jetta what instrument cluster would i need to get rpms & speedo to work.


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## MistaBee (Feb 23, 2013)

dubinprogress said:


> Custom 16v Aba parts just finished up.


That manifold is gorgeous.

Recently got my project to a stage where I need to start thinking about the motor. A few people have recommended 16V and after reading more about it I'm even more interested but I have a **** ton of questions. Going to read this entire week thread if I can since I couldn't find any other helpful info online that isn't 10 years old and outdated. Then I'll come back and you guys can flame me lol.


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

Don't waste time reading the entire thread. If you have any mechanical aptitude, everything you need to know is on the first page. Some questions may be required for clarity but reading the entire forum will cause confusion.


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## 8vlove12 (Jan 8, 2008)

Wondering if anybody is using the kevlar gates racing , 1.8T 06A/06B timing belt on their set up or just the 150 tooth 

My set up 

rebuilding a obd1 block


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

I decided to do it one time and went with the Gates ABF belt. 

Since my engine is requiring more than what a chipped ECU can do at the moment I'm being advised to move toward the world of tuning. I have heard a couple of names thrown around and wanted to see if anyone here has gone that route and had any advice/tips to follow. I have been recommended by my tech guy to look at Haltec but I have no idea at what to look for. Engine was running with a ABA OBD2 ECM with a TT chip programmed for a 16V with ABF injectors and ABF ignition.


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## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

How much hp are you turning now? How much do you want?


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## robertTT225 (Apr 9, 2007)

Old Windy said:


> I decided to do it one time and went with the Gates ABF belt.
> 
> Since my engine is requiring more than what a chipped ECU can do at the moment I'm being advised to move toward the world of tuning. I have heard a couple of names thrown around and wanted to see if anyone here has gone that route and had any advice/tips to follow. I have been recommended by my tech guy to look at Haltec but I have no idea at what to look for. Engine was running with a ABA OBD2 ECM with a TT chip programmed for a 16V with ABF injectors and ABF ignition.


There are a few good ones out there like Lugtronic, Fuel Tech, Haltech etc. The key is to a have a tuner with knowledge that can tune what you have and help you achieve your goals with the car. 

Sent from my SGH-T999N using Tapatalk


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## 8vlove12 (Jan 8, 2008)

Old Windy said:


> I decided to do it one time and went with the Gates ABF belt.
> 
> Since my engine is requiring more than what a chipped ECU can do at the moment I'm being advised to move toward the world of tuning. I have heard a couple of names thrown around and wanted to see if anyone here has gone that route and had any advice/tips to follow. I have been recommended by my tech guy to look at Haltec but I have no idea at what to look for. Engine was running with a ABA OBD2 ECM with a TT chip programmed for a 16V with ABF injectors and ABF ignition.


im running megasquirt 1


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## Old Windy (Apr 1, 2009)

robertTT225 said:


> There are a few good ones out there like Lugtronic, Fuel Tech, Haltech etc. The key is to a have a tuner with knowledge that can tune what you have and help you achieve your goals with the car.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999N using Tapatalk





8vlove12 said:


> im running megasquirt 1


Here's the thing, When I made the engine and finished the build I had made a hydro swap from a 020 to a 02A hybrid box. The 02A was a 1-2 16V passat gears 3,4,5 VR6 gears with a IIRC 3.89 R&P with a LSD installed too. I somehow felt the engine lack luster compared to an ABA with 260 and a 02Y with CHE 5ht gear (which is what I had before). The combination was sluggish on take of but once you went thru 3-4 it came alive but it would fall flat on its face in 5th gear (.889 vr didn't help). 
So I made the decision to garage the car till I had the chance and the parts to swap in a mk4 4.25 R&P and a diesel 5th gear (ended with a .727 because the .663 ish go lost somewhere in the house while moving :banghead::banghead::banghead. 
Fast forward to 3 months ago and I finally had the time to take the car to my tech and we did some major fine tuning of the timing, MSD 6AL, BFI's MSD coil upgrade and installed the 4.25 and diesel 5th and it made a gigantic change. Now the car behaves like I was expecting pretty much power thru all gears. I felt happy with the result but my tech has been pushing me to standalone since we started to build the engine a few years ago. Back then I almost ordered a Lugtronic but decided that we got the engine running first and went with a TT chip made for this engine (with the required shipping Back and Forth with TT) till it was running excellent. And after doing the fine tuning this time around and they were able to bring up cylinder pressure to 220 ps from 170 ps my tech did say during testing that he felt the engine loose power after 3k and he traced it down to the engine management. He did say that in order to get the full potential we needed to go stand alone and hence why my question between which system to go after. So far we have had narrowed it down to Haltech LS series or Megasquirt (i forgot which version) and dyno tunning. 

I will say that after he did the timing and tuning with the 6Al i have experienced a lower in gas consumption and an increase in drive ability. I'm just not sure if I will be able to tell the difference with stand alone vs what it is now.


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## 8vlove12 (Jan 8, 2008)

Old Windy said:


> Here's the thing, When I made the engine and finished the build I had made a hydro swap from a 020 to a 02A hybrid box. The 02A was a 1-2 16V passat gears 3,4,5 VR6 gears with a IIRC 3.89 R&P with a LSD installed too. I somehow felt the engine lack luster compared to an ABA with 260 and a 02Y with CHE 5ht gear (which is what I had before). The combination was sluggish on take of but once you went thru 3-4 it came alive but it would fall flat on its face in 5th gear (.889 vr didn't help).
> So I made the decision to garage the car till I had the chance and the parts to swap in a mk4 4.25 R&P and a diesel 5th gear (ended with a .727 because the .663 ish go lost somewhere in the house while moving :banghead::banghead::banghead.
> Fast forward to 3 months ago and I finally had the time to take the car to my tech and we did some major fine tuning of the timing, MSD 6AL, BFI's MSD coil upgrade and installed the 4.25 and diesel 5th and it made a gigantic change. Now the car behaves like I was expecting pretty much power thru all gears. I felt happy with the result but my tech has been pushing me to standalone since we started to build the engine a few years ago. Back then I almost ordered a Lugtronic but decided that we got the engine running first and went with a TT chip made for this engine (with the required shipping Back and Forth with TT) till it was running excellent. And after doing the fine tuning this time around and they were able to bring up cylinder pressure to 220 ps from 170 ps my tech did say during testing that he felt the engine loose power after 3k and he traced it down to the engine management. He did say that in order to get the full potential we needed to go stand alone and hence why my question between which system to go after. So far we have had narrowed it down to Haltech LS series or Megasquirt (i forgot which version) and dyno tunning.
> 
> I will say that after he did the timing and tuning with the 6Al i have experienced a lower in gas consumption and an increase in drive ability. I'm just not sure if I will be able to tell the difference with stand alone vs what it is now.


I have megasquirt 1 and im pretty happy with it. Haven't really heard anything bad so far, once you get a good tune you'll love your car once again


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## 9aba16vt (Feb 28, 2011)

Anyone have a 16v int shaft fs? 

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## eyepoppet (May 2, 2011)

What connecting rod bushing should you use when swapping 9a pistons to aba Rods 


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

eyepoppet said:


> What connecting rod bushing should you use when swapping 9a pistons to aba Rods
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


9A or any other 20 mm ones.


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## eyepoppet (May 2, 2011)

vwpat said:


> 9A or any other 20 mm ones.


Will 1.8t rod bushing fit?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

eyepoppet said:


> Will 1.8t rod bushing fit?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Early 20 mm ones should. I have never tried them, I always use 9A ones.


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## eyepoppet (May 2, 2011)

vwpat said:


> Early 20 mm ones should. I have never tried them, I always use 9A ones.


Hm. I guess I don't know where to find 9a bushings. Idk if the dealer still can get them. I'm buying most of my parts through germanautoparts 


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Dealer or GAP may have them.


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## .wide (Dec 22, 2009)

Hello,

Forgive me if answers on my questions are in this thread but I didn't read all pages (but I'm going to do it).

Is it possible to do conversion timming belt from 1.8T to ABF? What parts are neccesery? Sprockets on crank and cam, sprocket on balance shaft? What with timming cover? If I know good, sprockets and belt for 1.8t are little widther than ABF. 
Is the balance shaft neccestary in ABF?
Is the any another oil pump from another engine which fit to ABF and are better than stock? 
Any another oil pan?

If any modyfications needs any welding or CNC things it's no problem.

Best regards
Lukas


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## eyepoppet (May 2, 2011)

When using ARP high strength bolts on the connecting rods is a resize needed? I just pressed um in at 2000psi 


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## eyepoppet (May 2, 2011)

chilledOUTmk1 said:


> Does anyone have an issue with their timing belt running on the edges of the pullys. ABA16v using 150 tooth 1.8t timing belt, rides on the inside of the cam gear and outside of the crank pully.


Im also having this issue. what was the resolution?


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## Geno-Bob (Feb 7, 2006)

I have been collecting parts for a few years now in preparation for starting this project. Hopefully I will be starting it soon! I would like to thank all of you for getting all of this information together in one place! Great thread! 

Thank you,
Geno-Bob


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