# Who is Disappointed in the A3 US spec version



## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

When I started looking at the A3 as begin of the year as my next car comparing it to CLA 250 and BMW 2 series 228 msports pkg . I thought I had a good line-up to choose from. But when the configurators came online and price points I was shocked how much I would have to pay for a A3 for it to look half decent. Both BMW and Mercedes have wait times and CLA is pushing to 2015 model delivery times so that out.

How many are moving on from the A3 now that you got feel for it. I might just might get a A4 full loaded black optic package if I choose a Audi ( discounting heavily)


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

livestrong191 said:


> When I started looking at the A3 as begin of the year as my next car comparing it to CLA 250 and BMW 2 series 228 msports pkg . I thought I had a good line-up to choose from. But when the configurators came online and price points I was shocked how much I would have to pay for a A3 for it to look half decent. Both BMW and Mercedes have wait times and CLA is pushing to 2015 model delivery times so that out.
> 
> How many are moving on from the A3 now that you got feel for it. I might just might get a A4 full loaded black optic package if I choose a Audi ( discounting heavily)


I'm out.
the A3 is missing a pedal for my tastes, and to be honest, I just don't see the value in the car. It's pennies less than the A4, and it's not like I'd get the super tech options that are better on the A3 like the new nav. Right now, I'm happy with my 2011 A4 P+ Ti, and I'll probably either get another when the lease runs out in September, or shop elsewhere. 

I buy Audis becuase they're the last game in town that'll sell me a 'big boy' car with a stick and AWD aside from Acura's TL. Everything else out there with three pedals and four driven wheels is marketed to a demographic that wears flat-billc aps and lives in mom's basement. Once you take that away and just go stick OR awd, then there are quite frankly much better options on the table for better value than what Audi pushes, esp. at the A3 size class.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

FractureCritical said:


> I'm out.
> the A3 is missing a pedal for my tastes, and to be honest, I just don't see the value in the car. It's pennies less than the A4, and it's not like I'd get the super tech options that are better on the A3 like the new nav. Right now, I'm happy with my 2011 A4 P+ Ti, and I'll probably either get another when the lease runs out in September, or shop elsewhere.
> 
> I buy Audis becuase they're the last game in town that'll sell me a 'big boy' car with a stick and AWD aside from Acura's TL. Everything else out there with three pedals and four driven wheels is marketed to a demographic that wears flat-billc aps and lives in mom's basement. Once you take that away and just go stick OR awd, then there are quite frankly much better options on the table for better value than what Audi pushes, esp. at the A3 size class.












My sentiments exactly. At least with a stick this car would have had a chance in the debate.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

FractureCritical said:


> I'm out.
> the A3 is missing a pedal for my tastes, and to be honest, I just don't see the value in the car. It's pennies less than the A4, and it's not like I'd get the super tech options that are better on the A3 like the new nav. Right now, I'm happy with my 2011 A4 P+ Ti, and I'll probably either get another when the lease runs out in September, or shop elsewhere.
> 
> I buy Audis becuase they're the last game in town that'll sell me a 'big boy' car with a stick and AWD aside from Acura's TL. Everything else out there with three pedals and four driven wheels is marketed to a demographic that wears flat-billc aps and lives in mom's basement. Once you take that away and just go stick OR awd, then there are quite frankly much better options on the table for better value than what Audi pushes, esp. at the A3 size class.


The BMW 2 series come in a manual or automatic with step tronic paddle shifters


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

I'm with FractureCritical on this, plus my decision is complicated on the potential for an addition to the family within the next year, so I'm kind of sitting on the sidelines for the next 6 months or so.

If I had to jump right now - it would be to an A4 6MT+Sport. At the other end of the spectrum is the MK 7 GTI, which dollar for dollar is going to be an exceptional value compared to the CLAs and A3s of the world. 

S-tronic is a great transmission. I'm just not ready to give up my stick yet.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

livestrong191 said:


> When I started looking at the A3 as begin of the year as my next car comparing it to CLA 250 and BMW 2 series 228 msports pkg . I thought I had a good line-up to choose from. *But when the configurators came online and price points I was shocked how much I would have to pay for a A3 for it to look half decent.* Both BMW and Mercedes have wait times and CLA is pushing to 2015 model delivery times so that out.
> 
> How many are moving on from the A3 now that you got feel for it. I might just might get a A4 full loaded black optic package if I choose a Audi ( discounting heavily)


I'm sort of surprised that this comes as a surprise. I can't think of many cars that look "right" in what TCL so lovingly refers to as "poverty spec" trim. While I agree that it would be nice to be able to get S-line trim on at least the P+ car, I can't say it should be surprising that we can't. I think it was reasonably developed early on that, in order to meet the $29,900 price point with all of the touted standard equipment, something wouldn't be there.

I don't buy the base model of a car because I don't want to waste the time or money adding back the various things that were stripped to meet the price point. The A3 is no different. We knew, based on the CLA pricing, that the A3 wouldn't stay in the low-$30,000 range for long once you started adding things. 

This sort of feedback is representative, IMO, of the concern Audi should have with the "cheapening" of the brand- and note that I'm *not* talking about the product, but the brand. The brand is now a $29,900 brand, not a $33,000 brand- and though that's not a major difference, I think the mentality represented in this thread is a good indicator of the actual difference between the two. You've also got the idea that Audi is trying to go much more mainstream with the A3 than the A4 ever saw, so that's going to influence the foot traffic a bit as well.

Please don't misunderstand me; I'm a cheap-ass of the highest order, but I know what I'm getting myself into when I purchase a luxury good such as a "nice to have" automobile from a "nice to have" brand rather than a "need to have" automobile from a "this'll do" brand. If you expected to get an "all-in" car (specifically related to equipment) from any of these three brands for anything much south of $40,000, I might encourage you to realign your expectations. If you set aside quattro on the A3, you can get the 1.8 TFSI Prestige car for under $40,000... and to that end, I think Audi should be commended for making the base drive train choice available across all trim levels to satisfy exactly what you're looking for- a well-equipped German luxury marque for under $40,000. I think more that a couple of us expected to see a Premium and, at absolute best, Premium+ 1.8 TFSI, with the 2.0 TFSIq being the forced step up from there.

Audi is sort of proud of not having to put a lot of money on the hood, and I expect that they'll be no different with the A3. The only real reason you're going to get money on the hood on an A4 is because it's EOL- understandable, reasonable, and- if that's what works for you- maybe the better option. They're very different cars, however.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

The 1.8T A3 is a joke IMHO. Buy a Jetta GLI with the Autobahn package and save thousands unless you really have to have the Audi badge. The A3 2.0 quattro base price is good, but the options and trims are grossly overpriced, for 40K+ there are plenty of exciting options. I posted about the S3 in another thread, IMHO is doesnt have the performance expected (Overweight, no LSD, stock whp that rivals your standard V6 commuter appliance).


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

GTI2Slow said:


> The 1.8T A3 is a joke IMHO. Buy a Jetta GLI with the Autobahn package and save thousands unless you really have to have the Audi badge.


... or the additional engine features of the A3 (variable valve whatever it is).

... or the A3's panorama sunroof.

... or the A3's substantially newer platform.

... or the A3's smaller size.

... or the A3's aesthetic differences.

... or the A3's upgraded infotainment equipment.

But yeah, no reason to buy the A3 over a GLI. You're entitled to your opinion, but when you play daft for the sake of playing daft, you look a bit silly. 

There are perks for the GLI over the A3- lower cost, availability of MT. Neither of those makes the 1.8T A3 "a joke" any more than the S3 is like a Camry. :thumbup:


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> I'm sort of surprised that this comes as a surprise. I can't think of many cars that look "right" in what TCL so lovingly refers to as "poverty spec" trim. While I agree that it would be nice to be able to get S-line trim on at least the P+ car, I can't say it should be surprising that we can't. I think it was reasonably developed early on that, in order to meet the $29,900 price point with all of the touted standard equipment, something wouldn't be there.
> 
> I don't buy the base model of a car because I don't want to waste the time or money adding back the various things that were stripped to meet the price point. The A3 is no different. We knew, based on the CLA pricing, that the A3 wouldn't stay in the low-$30,000 range for long once you started adding things.
> 
> ...


I completely understand where you're coming from, and I agree. When I buy a luxury brand, I expect to pay more for less (but better done) features. That being said, I do not understand what the A3 is doing 'better' than the A4. For $41k I can buy (and have bought) a very nice non-povery spec A4. At that price point, a similar A3 is pennies less, similarly equipped, which can't be had (right now, admittedly).

there's also the rub of the fact that the A3 is by sheer geometry, a 'poverty' car; it looks like every other Audi product, but smaller. 
You mentioned 'the three' which is BMW, MB, and Audi. They all have 'poverty' cars now in the form of the 320i, the CLA, and A3, respectively, and they all take different tacks about how to handle the 'cheapening' issue.

- MB builds a miniature copy of a CLS, which is pretty widely recognized as a $100k car - MB can't keep them in stock.

-BMW builds a 3 series with a little motor (flatly on par with the Audi 1.8) and by virture of geometry, has all the same aesthetics as the more expensive 328/335, except for the little badge on the back, and you get them as racy looking as you like with a stick and M-Sport, and it drives the proper wheels - BMW can't keep them in stock. 

- Audi sells a copy of their (now) cheapest model at 80% scale for 90% price and (for now) less options. Don't tell me the old A3 was the cheapest model - Audi never spent a nickel marketing it and no one knew it every existed except for the few that bought one (including my wife and 39% of the population of San Francisco)

I understand the market and business case for two of the above cars. 
the third makes zero sense to me.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> I completely understand where you're coming from, and I agree. When I buy a luxury brand, I expect to pay more for less (but better done) features. That being said, I do not understand what the A3 is doing 'better' than the A4. For $41k I can buy (and have bought) a very nice non-povery spec A4. At that price point, a similar A3 is pennies less, similarly equipped, which can't be had (right now, admittedly).


Come on... I know you've seen us drag this out here. To some, the A3 does size better than the A4. For some of us, that's reason enough to buy an A3. There's also the notion that this "tweener" stage re: pricing will be addressed when the B9 moves up in price. That's not confirmed, of course, but is highly suspected. At this point, I have no need to shop the A4. It's a larger car than I need, and I have no desire to own one. If the A4 were only $100 more than the A3, I still wouldn't buy it. I'm an outsider in a land where people seem to believe "bigger is better" applies to everything, so I understand that I'm not going to be well understood. It is what it is.

I for one don't think the A3 looks like the A4, but I realize the deep-seated "same sausage, different lengths" mentality can't be argued away for those who see it that way. Not even going to try...


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

You are clearly too emotionally invested here to have a conversation that is critical of any aspect of this car.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

GTI2Slow said:


> You are clearly too emotionally invested here to have a conversation that is critical of any aspect of this car.


I'd disagree. I'm trying to argue the same single point that people have been refusing to acknowledge for months. There's this mentality that an A4 should be a better choice because it's only a couple dollars more. That's absurd; it assumes that everyone buys the most they can for a dollar. It just doesn't work that way. Why is that so difficult?



Here, maybe this will help...

I also don't think an A4 looks like an A6 or an A8. I don't think a Q5 looks like a Q7. I don't think an R8 looks like a TT. Last one's a stretch, but... just sayin'.


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## anti suv (Sep 26, 2013)

Dan Halen said:


> At this point, I have no need to shop the A4. It's a larger car than I need, and I have no desire to own one. If the A4 were only $100 more than the A3, I still wouldn't buy it. I'm an outsider in a land where people seem to believe "bigger is better" applies to everything, so I understand that I'm not going to be well understood. It is what it is...


I agree. Im interested in the S3 and m235 because of their size. Their larger siblings are just larger than what i like to drive. I wish i like larger cars as there seem to be many more offerings.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

I think what folks are experiencing is the loss of interest when, to get the car to look good, the s-line package is needed and is only available in the US as a Prestige model (all other markets make it available in lower trims). People anticipated getting a 2.0T, decently equipped, for ~$35k if you look back a few months. The reality is, it'll cost you $42k at minimum and even then it's missing some details (hate to keep pointing these out, but: wheel options, flat bottom steering wheel, perforated steering wheel, sline suspension, home link?, true pano roof).

Somehow the A4 seems like more car for the same money so it's often brought to comparison. Perhaps with a few tweaks on Audi USAs part, folks wouldn't have that feeling. The average buyer may find it easy walk off the lot with a $35k Audi, though, and see no difference since all trims have a sunroof, leather, metal trim, and a pop-up thingy in the dash.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

livestrong191 said:


> When I started looking at the A3 as begin of the year as my next car comparing it to CLA 250 and BMW 2 series 228 msports pkg . I thought I had a good line-up to choose from. But when the configurators came online and price points I was shocked how much I would have to pay for a A3 for it to look half decent. Both BMW and Mercedes have wait times and CLA is pushing to 2015 model delivery times so that out.
> 
> How many are moving on from the A3 now that you got feel for it. I might just might get a A4 full loaded black optic package if I choose a Audi ( discounting heavily)


The thing is, you gotta look at the competition. Compare the CLA and the A3. Even at that 29,990 the A3 offers so much more than the CLA. The A3 gets you leather, xenon lights, pano sunroof...all standard, at that price. To equip a CLA like that, you are talking at least 3-4k extra, and that's without the sport package. The A3 is down on engine power but in the real world i bet its a wash, just by judging from APR's 1.8T dyno plot. On the higher end, a Premium Plus or Prestige A3 2.0T is a better deal than the BMW 228i. Audi just offers more tech for similar or even lower prices. You dont get any fancy gadgets in the 2 series; Audi gives it all to you and then some.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Chimera said:


> I think what folks are experiencing is the loss of interest when, to get the car to look good, the s-line package is needed and is only available in the US as a Prestige model (all other markets make it available in lower trims). People anticipated getting a 2.0T, decently equipped, for ~$35k if you look back a few months. The reality is, it'll cost you $42k at minimum and even then it's missing some details (hate to keep pointing these out, but: wheel options, flat bottom steering wheel, perforated steering wheel, sline suspension, home link?, true pano roof).
> 
> Somehow the A4 seems like more car for the same money so it's often brought to comparison. Perhaps with a few tweaks on Audi USAs part, folks wouldn't have that feeling. The average buyer may find it easy walk off the lot with a $35k Audi, though, and see no difference since all trims have a sunroof, leather, metal trim, and a pop-up thingy in the dash.


Audi is for sure banking on that "average buyer". It's the same way Mercedes is selling CLA's like hotcakes; people want the badge and that's it. They don't know that its not a true Mercedes (RWD, etc).


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

I've soured on it quite a bit since the beginning. But I'm holding out hope it will partially live up to my (inflated) expectations. I'm no longer doing the peepee dance waiting for it to be released, however. (ie, antsy)

Personally, I don't think the new A3 sedan looks very much like an A4 at all. Maybe it does to people who just look at the badge, but I definitely think it looks much better visually than the A4.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Chimera said:


> I think what folks are experiencing is the loss of interest when, to get the car to look good, the s-line package is needed and is only available in the US as a Prestige model (all other markets make it available in lower trims). People anticipated getting a 2.0T, decently equipped, for ~$35k if you look back a few months. The reality is, it'll cost you $42k at minimum and even then it's missing some details (hate to keep pointing these out, but: wheel options, flat bottom steering wheel, perforated steering wheel, sline suspension, home link?, true pano roof).
> 
> Somehow the A4 seems like more car for the same money so it's often brought to comparison. Perhaps with a few tweaks on Audi USAs part, folks wouldn't have that feeling. The average buyer may find it easy walk off the lot with a $35k Audi, though, and see no difference since all trims have a sunroof, leather, metal trim, and a pop-up thingy in the dash.


You'll all have to help me here as I'm not certain, but isn't S-line historically only offered on the higher trim levels? If so, why did we really expect that to change?


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Audi A3 would be hands down my choice if I got a sports pkg and wheel for $36K like the CLA and BMW 2 series. That's not asking a lot +- $3500 BUT $41K to have those things Sweet baby Jesus hugging baby puppies that's awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much. Dan please lets take a chill pill for a sec Ok. Way to emotional playa


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

The DarkSide said:


> I've soured on it quite a bit since the beginning. But I'm holding out hope it will partially live up to my (inflated) expectations. I'm no longer doing the peepee dance waiting for it to be released, however. (ie, antsy)
> 
> Personally, I don't think the new A3 sedan looks very much like an A4 at all. Maybe it does to people who just look at the badge, but I definitely think it looks much better visually than the A4.


with the standard prestige rims though; it really does kinda look like an A4 from the side; from the distance on a highway, you wouldn't be able to tell. Hell i can't tell the A6 and A4 apart at distance untill they get closer and i can see the different headlights.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> You'll all have to help me here as I'm not certain, but isn't S-line historically only offered on the higher trim levels? If so, why did we really expect that to change?


on the A4 it comes with Premium Plus and up i think. I wonder how much the prices are for the bumpers and trim parts. Don't we have some vendors that can get them for cheaper? What else does the S-line have?


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

The DarkSide said:


> I've soured on it quite a bit since the beginning. But I'm holding out hope it will partially live up to my (inflated) expectations. I'm no longer doing the peepee dance waiting for it to be released, however. (ie, antsy)
> 
> Personally, I don't think the new A3 sedan looks very much like an A4 at all. Maybe it does to people who just look at the badge, but I definitely think it looks much better visually than the A4.


The rims make car though, with the A3 and the A4. The black optics A4 looks very exotic...same with the 19 inchers on the A3 like we saw in the Super Bowl commercial.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Chimera said:


> I think what folks are experiencing is the loss of interest when, to get the car to look good, the s-line package is needed and is only available in the US as a Prestige model (all other markets make it available in lower trims). People anticipated getting a 2.0T, decently equipped, for ~$35k if you look back a few months. The reality is, it'll cost you $42k at minimum and even then it's missing some details (hate to keep pointing these out, but: wheel options, flat bottom steering wheel, perforated steering wheel, sline suspension, home link?, true pano roof).
> 
> Somehow the A4 seems like more car for the same money so it's often brought to comparison. Perhaps with a few tweaks on Audi USAs part, folks wouldn't have that feeling. The average buyer may find it easy walk off the lot with a $35k Audi, though, and see no difference since all trims have a sunroof, leather, metal trim, and a pop-up thingy in the dash.


i was also considering the A4 but since its the end of the line now, it doesn't have the benefit of all the new tech VW/Audi has been developing. The B9 will though. The A3 looks to be a smash hit, even if it took its time to get here. The CLA wasn't that quick either; it was shown at the superbowl but sales didn't start till like September. I'd rather have Audi get things right and release a solid car. The CLA had/still has some issues in the early going.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

livestrong191 said:


> Audi A3 would be hands down my choice if I got a sports pkg and wheel for $36K like the CLA and BMW 2 series. That's not asking a lot +- $3500 BUT $41K to have those things Sweet baby Jesus hugging baby puppies that's awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to much. Dan please lets take a chill pill for a sec Ok. Way to emotional playa


No, just tired of seeing the same nonsense posted without any effort to comprehend the "other side" of the viewpoint. None of it is directed at you as you're not the one being unreasonable.

Based on your $41,000 price, I assume we're talking quattro, right? Haven't followed the 2er; is it even offered with AWD? And the CLA... what's the cost for an AWD unit there? Again, not following that car, either. My point is just that, all variables taken into consideration, I doubt the A3 is going to be substantially out of line with the market, specifically BMW and Mercedes. Audi hasn't turned the string of record months they have by sticking their head in the sand, and they know how critical this new segment is to the future of their brand.

I'll say it again- I, too, would be annoyed about having to buy Prestige to get the S-line setup, were I in that situation. But as I alluded to in my previous post, was our expectation reasonable, given Audi's history with recent cars? I seem to recall ChrisFu stating that he bought his A5 specifically because Audi opened up S-line to P+ trims as the B8 moves toward EOL- but I'm willing to wait for confirmation to definitively state that.

I wish we could individually select every option, but Audi's bean counters have carefully balanced the equation containing manufacturing cost, revenue per car, and buyer quantity. Naturally, the enthusiast's definition of balance, where it concerns the equation, is admittedly a bit skewed as we seem to omit consideration for parts of all three variables as it suits our view through enthusiast glasses. The more we do it, the more unrealistic our expectations become, and the less satisfied we are when the details begin to spill out. I don't think that's entirely fair, and I'm trying to be at least a small voice of reason.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> on the A4 it comes with Premium Plus and up i think. I wonder how much the prices are for the bumpers and trim parts. Don't we have some vendors that can get them for cheaper? What else does the S-line have?


Eh, I'm adjusting my expectations way ahead of time re: Audi OEM parts cost. Example:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4-Quattro-2.0T/Exterior/Body/Grille/ES2680872/

The black and chrome S-line grille is substantially less, but still. Hell, the European Jetta front bumper I picked up all those years ago for my car still goes for almost a grand, I believe. Sadly, buying Premium or P+ with the plan to add the S-line kit afterward would probably land you at the same place, financially, as buying Prestige from the start. And then you don't have to worry about paint match...


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

caliatenza said:


> The rims make car though, with the A3 and the A4. The black optics A4 looks very exotic...same with the 19 inchers on the A3 like we saw in the Super Bowl commercial.


I dont like any of the rims that the A3/S3 come with. So the rims are not doing anything for me in regards to saying the A3/S3 looks better. My wife has an 2011 A4 avant titanium (black optics) and I LOVE those rims. I still think the A3/S3 looks worlds better than the A4.. regardless of the rims. If I got into an A3/S3 I'd prob replace the rims within a week or so.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Its very clear here that Audi is following the "pay to play" mantra with the A3, and is counting on reaping all the margain benefits of that business model.

This is a longstanding theme for them, and they only rarely stray away.

You want a flat bottom wheel? Gotta buy S-line...which means you also have to buy Prestige. They just made you spend $4,000 to get that option.

Want S-line bodywork? Same deal, you spent $3,000 to get it along with a crapload of options you didnt want.

Audi laughs all the way to the bank.


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## BClear (Jun 18, 2010)

Chimera said:


> *I think what folks are experiencing is the loss of interest when, to get the car to look good, the s-line package is needed and is only available in the US as a Prestige model (all other markets make it available in lower trims). People anticipated getting a 2.0T, decently equipped, for ~$35k if you look back a few months. The reality is, it'll cost you $42k at minimum* and even then it's missing some details (hate to keep pointing these out, but: wheel options, flat bottom steering wheel, perforated steering wheel, sline suspension, home link?, true pano roof).
> 
> Somehow the A4 seems like more car for the same money so it's often brought to comparison. Perhaps with a few tweaks on Audi USAs part, folks wouldn't have that feeling. The average buyer may find it easy walk off the lot with a $35k Audi, though, and see no difference since all trims have a sunroof, leather, metal trim, and a pop-up thingy in the dash.


This. The way I'd order a CLA or 228i, they'd both be somewhere in the $38-40K neighborhood. Before A3 packaging and pricing was announced, I was thinking I may be able to get a 2.0T/Premium/S-Line exterior/sport package A3 in the $35-37K range, which was appealing. Truth be told, I'm not married to A3, nor the other cars. They all have their pros and cons from my perspective, so packaging/pricing (and ultimately lease support) will play a big role for me. But being forced to get the Prestige trim to get the S-Line exterior makes my spec over $44K with destination. Sure it has more equipment than the others, but it's equipment that I don't care about that I'm being forced to pay for.

At the same price as the CLA and 228, the A3 is a contender.
At a couple grand discount, it's the leader, but even still not an all out winner.
At a $4-6K premium, it's priced itself out of the running.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

I prefer an A3 over an A4. Unless the A4 is cheaper.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

I gotta say the A3 stacks up well against a BMW 320xdrive (I don't understand why a 2dr coupe 2series is the supposed competition).


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## JDBVR6 (Dec 29, 2006)

Honestly, I lost intrest in the A3 when they announced the U.S. market will get a sedan only. :thumbdown: I have little interest in buying a car that will look like every other 4 door grocery getter on the road. Audi REALLY pissed me off when they announced we would be getting the Q3, which is an A3 sportback that is uglier, worse handling, heavier and riding on a very dated platform. :banghead:

The A3 sedan looks good, don't get me wrong. However, at the end of the day it is just the same old generic sedan. The sportback at least looks different and has more style with better cargo capacity, Imo. Who wouldn't want that?


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## cwyattrun (Jan 26, 2014)

Not disappointed, still excited for the car - but I wasn't one who thought it was going to be a 2900 pound, $34k-loaded, category-defining world-beater. 

At this point i'd have to be unhappy with a test drive, or the final negotiation, to change course.


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## Holo79 (Feb 1, 2014)

Chimera said:


> I gotta say the A3 stacks up well against a BMW 320xdrive (I don't understand why a 2dr coupe 2series is the supposed competition).


This. The 320i xDrive is my second choice if the A3 doesn't work out, although I'm not sure why it wouldn't. The only thing I was disappointed in was the price for the Premium+Sport but I've rationalized the $43.5k :laugh: price tag.


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

First no manual and no wagon. Also I'm poor, it was a stretch to get my A3 in 2008 and now that I'm nearing retirement it may even be more of a stretch. That being said, when I sat in the S-line I was a bit disappointed. It's not that much different than my 2007 S-line, in fact I didn't like the steering wheel as much. So I'm thinking hard about the A3. There are a few other choices and I'm in no hurry to buy. I may even decide I don't really need a nice daily driver. I still have my Lotus for fun, so maybe I could just get a Camry.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

JDBVR6 said:


> Honestly, I lost intrest in the A3 when they announced the U.S. market will get a sedan only. :thumbdown:


i am waiting for a poverty spec s3 3 door hatch @ about 3200 lbs, ha ha


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Well I guess I am technically disappointed. I think the 2.0T is a bit more expensive then what I thought, I thought a fair price was 31,900. The size in the backseat is smaller then I expected and something where they could have easily given more headroom, I do not consider myself a huge guy, other smaller cars are able to do better IMO. The set up of the packaging is kinda annoying, I care about the sport pack but only can get with P+, but then I prefer the standard wheels over the P+, so basically paying for an option I care about and getting something I think downgrades the appearance. The prestige I think is ridiculously over priced. I think this is a perfect car to get a manual, better then an A4, just makes so much more sense and would sell me on it immediately. I guess like all German car set-ups they have to nickel and dime you on everything, but I mean dual zone climate control should be standard come on now, this is ubiquitous across cars out there, even the everyman base Honda Accord has it.

But saying all that, it is very high on my list. Look I walked around an entire auto show and saw loads of different cars and the A3 just stood out to me. It looks awesome, the interior is very nice, and it all makes the A4 look stodgy IMO. I pretty much fall into their demo, but the pricing should be better, or they should tweak the packaging. I have a budget like the rest of you, and between 30-35 there are a lot of good cars, and right now an A3 2.0T P+ with sport pack with color I care about is $37,795 and I still need to get different wheels (thus add another at least another $1000) since those that come with the P+ package is MEH, that is a lot of coin. Right now got the new Acura TLX (bigger then A3) and the Audi A3 at the top, along with a host of others. 

In conclusion the look and feel of the A3 is really sweet and I feel like I am excited about trying the 1.8T since those of you who have driven it are giving some nice thumbs up. I am also interested in seeing the standard premium and get a feel if I can get away with that model. I love cars but my family loves taking several nice vacations throughout the year. Driving this bad boy will really mean a lot.


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## jubasa (Oct 15, 2010)

We're actually reasonably happy so far with the US spec A3. My wife's fully loaded MKV Jetta 2.5 is up for replacement after a good 8 year run. We were looking for a slight increase in the premium feel (quieter, better materials, etc.) while retaining similar proportions.

We drove the A4 (fwd cvt was meh, awd sport line was great), 320 and 328 (good to drive but she doesn't like the styling). We hate the looks of the current gen Jetta, CLA and C-class, so those were out. We had decided on the A4 even though it felt too big. But then we heard of the upcoming A3 and decided to wait to test drive it before making a decision.

After pricing the A4, 320 and A3 for the options we want, the A3 2.0T is far ahead ($4500+). Pending a test drive, it's size and options look like a good fit for us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Its mind boggling that anyone can honestly gripe about space and headroom in the A3 when it is specifically marketed to be noticably smaller. Thats its entire raison d'être!

If you want more room, Audi offered the bloaty A4 for the past decade as their "small" sedan!


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

ChrisFu said:


> Its mind boggling that anyone can honestly gripe about space and headroom in the A3 when it is specifically marketed to be noticably smaller. Thats its entire raison d'être!
> 
> If you want more room, Audi offered the bloaty A4 for the past decade as their "small" sedan!


Agreed. That's why model ranges exist.


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## JOES1.8T (Sep 8, 2003)

There is no doubt that the car has its pros and cons. I too was disappointed in the packaging and pricing when released, but as some have said but not in these exact words this isn't your typical Ford or Chevy daily driver. You are paying for a luxury car built overseas so I do take into consideration that pricing will be high, but it does suck how Audi does put stipulations into their packaging. Right now honestly if you really really desperately want to be that kid on the block who has the new toy, then buy it, but I am going to hold out until I know more options and changes come along down the road. Crap for a prestige s-line package right now, you DONT even get the flat bottom steering wheel and sports package DOESNT even come with a suspension yet there are eager beavers out there WHO MUST have this car right now and then guess what when a major change comes along, you are right back to the dealership possibly trading in or regretting not waiting. To me right now the car is on standby.... "good things come to those who wait."

@chrisfu, I've seen pics of your s-line competition package car on Audizine. Seriously thinking about going up to a A5 instead. :laugh:


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## Zorro83 (Sep 10, 2011)

ChrisFu said:


> Its mind boggling that anyone can honestly gripe about space and headroom in the A3 when it is specifically marketed to be noticably smaller. Thats its entire raison d'être!
> 
> If you want more room, Audi offered the bloaty A4 for the past decade as their "small" sedan!


This guy gets it!


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## jubasa (Oct 15, 2010)

JOES1.8T said:


> There is no doubt that the car has its pros and cons. I too was disappointed in the packaging and pricing when released, but as some have said but not in these exact words this isn't your typical Ford or Chevy daily driver. You are paying for a luxury car built overseas so I do take into consideration that pricing will be high, but it does suck how Audi does put stipulations into their packaging. *Right now honestly if you really really desperately want to be that kid on the block who has the new toy, then buy it, but I am going to hold out until I know more options and changes come along down the road.* Crap for a prestige s-line package right now, you DONT even get the flat bottom steering wheel and sports package DOESNT even come with a suspension yet there are eager beavers out there WHO MUST have this car right now and then guess what when a major change comes along, you are right back to the dealership possibly trading in or regretting not waiting. To me right now the car is on standby.... "good things come to those who wait."


But, for me (and I'm quite sure that there are others) the options are actually quite good -- especially compared to the competition. Not everyone wants a sports suspension on this car (and on the roads we drive on), nor do many need their car to look more aggressive with the S-line package. Considering that many here have waited for 6+ months (and counting) for this car, I'd hardly call them "eager beavers". We get it, the options don't work for you, but it should apparent by now that they work for many others.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

I am happy i ordered a fully loaded 2.0T quattro ($45k MSRP). its got all the tech stuff i've wanted in a car but couldnt afford an A6 3.0T Prestige at $70k to get the gadgets i really wanted. So this car at that much less is spot on for me. It'll get good gas MPG, be fun to drive on my daily commute, 50 mi round trip, and still be mod friendly.

I am extremely happy about this car, now having spent the better part of 4 days around one (at training and we had one in our showroom this past weekend). I enjoy the DSG trans, but have 2 other manual cars in my garage to quench that thirst.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> Come on... I know you've seen us drag this out here. To some, the A3 does size better than the A4. For some of us, that's reason enough to buy an A3. There's also the notion that this "tweener" stage re: pricing will be addressed when the B9 moves up in price. That's not confirmed, of course, but is highly suspected. At this point, I have no need to shop the A4. It's a larger car than I need, and I have no desire to own one. If the A4 were only $100 more than the A3, I still wouldn't buy it. I'm an outsider in a land where people seem to believe "bigger is better" applies to everything, so I understand that I'm not going to be well understood. It is what it is.
> 
> I for one don't think the A3 looks like the A4, but I realize the deep-seated "same sausage, different lengths" mentality can't be argued away for those who see it that way. Not even going to try...


I can't argue that some would like a smaller car, but at what point are you gonna look at other options? For what an A3 costs, and if the size matters, coupes become legitimate options. The 2 series BMWs are therefore competitive at similar price points, are far more visually distinctive, and the M235i is far more impressive vehicle than, say a base model S3. I'm sorry, I'm a huge Audi fan, but an M anything (they haven't cheapened that brand as far just yet) trumps a midget sedan anything. (Audi themselves note the 1 series as BMW's competition to the A3) 

I think even you have to admit that people like yourself are exceptionally rare. and it's nto the size thing int total, it's the specificity of wanting a small sedan, which is rare in any market that doesn't tax the car's footprint. The demand may not be enough to support the 20k/year that Audi needs to see roll out the door to make this car work. 

And the B9 can't move up in price. It's already topped-out against the 3 series. Say what you will about the higher prices of the 3 series, but BMW runs higher residuals and they put cash on the hood. the lease rates on them already run cheaper than respective Audis.

We will see how these do, and that will be the real test, but I'm going to say that by every metric I look at, the A3 is a bad car for the brand. 
I'd love to cite Audi's own metrics for good market research, but the target market of 45 year old males amking $145k/yr is... interesting.
Perhaps they are all divorcees looking for an affordable brand specific car to hedge against alimony and child support costs.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

ChrisFu said:


> Its mind boggling that anyone can honestly gripe about space and headroom in the A3 when it is specifically marketed to be noticably smaller. Thats its entire raison d'être!
> 
> If you want more room, Audi offered the bloaty A4 for the past decade as their "small" sedan!


What I can't gripe about this cars lack of headroom in the rear, it can and should be better, am I really asking for too much, it is a 4 door car, not a coupe. I have a TSX one of its competitors. It has more headroom, period end of story, yes it is a bit larger, but you can see how easily they can nip off the front and back without worrying about passenger compartment, which in my mind is not far from being like the A3 except better rear headroom. I have sat in an ILX it has more headroom. I have sat in a BMW 320i it has more headroom. Heck the CLA did not even feel much different for headroom. I like a smaller car but I also know they should offer just a bit more headroom, look I am not expecting huge backseat, never said I was, I simply ask that they had a couple inches to the headroom. They can do better interior packaging, isn't this car all about the U.S. market, um we are not exactly the smallest people, and I am not exactly the largest person. Smaller car does not have to mean zero backseat, just package it better. Look the new TLX got smaller yet they kept the interior space the same as previous model, it is not like it is impossible. Seems like a simple thing 1-2 inches headroom that is all I ask. I never sat in the older A4 sedan which the A3 is compared to only the Avant so curious to see how it compares headroom wise. Again headroom is not the begin and end all for me, just one complaint.

Anyhow I think the car is really sweet, and if I am going to nitpick stuff I will, thought that was the point. No car is perfect, so it is all about finding the best car to meet your needs and desires, and the A3 does that for me for the most part. After seeing an A3 I can see where clients will just lose interest in the A4, stand next to the 2 and you will immediately be drawn to the A3. I believe the A3 will be successful, the styling by itself is really going to get a lot of people excited. If they can get a sweet lease deals then they really could push the **** out of this car. I mean picture a 1.8T P+ for $299/m 36m with small money down.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

JOES1.8T said:


> @chrisfu, I've seen pics of your s-line competition package car on Audizine. Seriously thinking about going up to a A5 instead. :laugh:


Thanks  I spent a little more than I wanted to, but in the end it was worth it as I got a great deal with supplier discount. I love it so far.



FractureCritical said:


> We will see how these do, and that will be the real test, but I'm going to say that by every metric I look at, the A3 is a bad car for the brand.


I think you underestimate the allure of a "luxury car" for ~$30k to the brand whores. Thats the bread and butter of Audi's profitability on this thing. Anyone concerned about the actual vehicular aspects are ancillary. They will sell boatloads of the FWD models.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> I can't argue that some would like a smaller car, but at what point are you gonna look at other options? For what an A3 costs, and if the size matters, coupes become legitimate options.


Valid point, but in my case, I have no interest in a coupe. There's a small potential that this car will have to do baby duty some years down the road, and while many would say it's too small for that, I'm more confident in my patience in dealing with it than with a coupe. If I could've gotten approval to buy something with two doors, I'd have had a Cayman S nearly a year ago. :laugh:

Sure, no back seat in a Cayman... but this four-door sedan will be a compromise so I can have something which makes me happy and also assures that I'm not going to be in a precarious situation should we forefeit our DINK status.



FractureCritical said:


> I think even you have to admit that people like yourself are exceptionally rare. and it's nto the size thing int total, it's the specificity of wanting a small sedan, which is rare in any market that doesn't tax the car's footprint. The demand may not be enough to support the 20k/year that Audi needs to see roll out the door to make this car work.


I'll readily admit that I'm in the minority here, but that's more in respect to my willingness to pay S3 prices (and even before that, really, to regard the S3 as a value). The asses Audi hopes to put in the seats of the A3 aren't you or me; they're the brand snobs. I think they'll be at least moderately successful doing so, but I do believe they're going to have to come up with a more competitive lease to do it. My gut impression is that most of their target audience will be lessees, and they're going to be shopping BMW and Merc as well, by and large, IMO. From the start, I've not been the biggest fan of this idea... but that's really not of any substance.



FractureCritical said:


> I'd love to cite Audi's own metrics for good market research, but the target market of 45 year old males amking $145k/yr is... interesting.


Man is it ever. I'm still trying to chew on that one.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

ProjectA3 said:


> I am happy i ordered a fully loaded 2.0T quattro ($45k MSRP). its got all the tech stuff i've wanted in a car but couldnt afford an A6 3.0T Prestige at $70k to get the gadgets i really wanted. So this car at that much less is spot on for me. It'll get good gas MPG, be fun to drive on my daily commute, 50 mi round trip, and still be mod friendly.
> 
> I am extremely happy about this car, now having spent the better part of 4 days around one (at training and we had one in our showroom this past weekend). I enjoy the DSG trans, but have 2 other manual cars in my garage to quench that thirst.


honestly i will probably end up going this route: 2.0T Prestige. I'm gonna keep the S3 as a halo option, but the 2.0T seems like the more practical choice. I just need to see if the dealers are willing to deal. I'm hoping by this December the sport package will actually have a sport suspension in it.


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## nickjs1984 (Jul 30, 2009)

This is basically where I am, as well. I'm going 2.0T P+ with Sport (as you say, with suspension by then), Convenience and B&O packages. I'm aiming for the ACNA discount and a good lease deal by this November, when I place an order for delivery at the end of my Volvo's lease at the start of 2015. We'll see!



caliatenza said:


> honestly i will probably end up going this route: 2.0T Prestige. I'm gonna keep the S3 as a halo option, but the 2.0T seems like the more practical choice. I just need to see if the dealers are willing to deal. I'm hoping by this December the sport package will actually have a sport suspension in it.


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## jubasa (Oct 15, 2010)

FractureCritical said:


> I can't argue that some would like a smaller car, but at what point are you gonna look at other options? For what an A3 costs, and if the size matters, coupes become legitimate options. The 2 series BMWs are therefore competitive at similar price points, are far more visually distinctive, and the M235i is far more impressive vehicle than, say a base model S3. I'm sorry, I'm a huge Audi fan, but an M anything (they haven't cheapened that brand as far just yet) trumps a midget sedan anything. (Audi themselves note the 1 series as BMW's competition to the A3)


Coupes with their 2+2 seating are not a legitimate option for me and I have little interest in the 2-series unless they come out with a grand coupe. We don't have children but we do have parents and friends. I've never bought a daily driver with less than 4 doors, and I doubt I will anytime soon. So, while the size may seem comparable to you, they are completely different cars to me.

BTW, what you term to be a midget sedan, is similar in size to the B5 A4, a perfectly good sized car in 2001. I've haven't increased in size since then, and neither have the lanes become wider. I'm just happy that this car exists today but I suppose it was inevitable given the steady bloat of the A4, C-class and 3-series.



FractureCritical said:


> We will see how these do, and that will be the real test, but I'm going to say that by every metric I look at, the A3 is a bad car for the brand.
> I'd love to cite Audi's own metrics for good market research, but the target market of 45 year old males amking $145k/yr is... interesting.
> Perhaps they are all divorcees looking for an affordable brand specific car to hedge against alimony and child support costs.


What are these metrics that you've looked at btw? The A3 has been sold in the US since 2006. The previous A3 did not do well because Americans refuse to buy premium wagons. The new A3 sedan starts at $2000 more, which gets you a trunk, xenons, DSG, a sunroof, real leather, and you can load it up with all the options available on the A4. A comparably equipped A3 will run you at least $4000 less than the A4. So, Audi now has a car that competes well with the CLA, while keeping a reasonable distance from the A4 both in size and price. Please elaborate on why this is a bad strategy for Audi in the US market and not for MB and BMW.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

jubasa said:


> Coupes with their 2+2 seating are not a legitimate option for me and I have little interest in the 2-series unless they come out with a grand coupe. We don't have children but we do have parents and friends. I've never bought a daily driver with less than 4 doors, and I doubt I will anytime soon. So, while the size may seem comparable to you, they are completely different cars to me.
> 
> BTW, what you term to be a midget sedan, is similar in size to the B5 A4, a perfectly good sized car in 2001. I've haven't increased in size since then, and neither have the lanes become wider. I'm just happy that this car exists today but I suppose it was inevitable given the steady bloat of the A4, C-class and 3-series.
> 
> ...


X2, and well said.

Somehow the new A3 is a mistake for Audi? Based on sales number the last A3 was a huge mistake. From 2005-2013 - 9 years, they sold a total of 60k in North America, (average of 6700 per year). I would love to be the one following that car with the new one. How could they do worse?

Seems like a decent value, with a smaller car at a lower price point than the A4, and as a sedan, all things that the market wants. Also, looking at the CLA and how it is doing in the market and how the A3 is priced compared to it I think Audi will do well with this car. 

As for the "brand whore" comments, I am interested in hearing from the ones on this forum that at never consider the brand when they purchase merchandise.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

dmorrow said:


> X2, and well said.
> 
> Somehow the new A3 is a mistake for Audi? Based on sales number the last A3 was a huge mistake. From 2005-2013 - 9 years, they sold a total of 60k in North America, (average of 6700 per year). I would love to be the one following that car with the new one. How could they do worse?
> 
> ...


Audi needs to push the fact that you get a lot more bang for you buck with the A3 vs the CLA; they can peel off the CLA buyers that way.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

BrutusA3 said:


> What I can't gripe about this cars lack of headroom in the rear, it can and should be better, am I really asking for too much, it is a 4 door car, not a coupe. I have a TSX one of its competitors. It has more headroom, period end of story, yes it is a bit larger, but you can see how easily they can nip off the front and back without worrying about passenger compartment, which in my mind is not far from being like the A3 except better rear headroom. I have sat in an ILX it has more headroom. I have sat in a BMW 320i it has more headroom. Heck the CLA did not even feel much different for headroom. I like a smaller car but I also know they should offer just a bit more headroom, look I am not expecting huge backseat, never said I was, I simply ask that they had a couple inches to the headroom. They can do better interior packaging, isn't this car all about the U.S. market, um we are not exactly the smallest people, and I am not exactly the largest person. Smaller car does not have to mean zero backseat, just package it better. Look the new TLX got smaller yet they kept the interior space the same as previous model, it is not like it is impossible. Seems like a simple thing 1-2 inches headroom that is all I ask. I never sat in the older A4 sedan which the A3 is compared to only the Avant so curious to see how it compares headroom wise. Again headroom is not the begin and end all for me, just one complaint.
> 
> Anyhow I think the car is really sweet, and if I am going to nitpick stuff I will, thought that was the point. No car is perfect, so it is all about finding the best car to meet your needs and desires, and the A3 does that for me for the most part. After seeing an A3 I can see where clients will just lose interest in the A4, stand next to the 2 and you will immediately be drawn to the A3. I believe the A3 will be successful, the styling by itself is really going to get a lot of people excited. If they can get a sweet lease deals then they really could push the **** out of this car. I mean picture a 1.8T P+ for $299/m 36m with small money down.


You say the TSX is a bit larger, thus having more room. dont forget cars also have to meet safety standards and weird crash systems. so for the size of the A3, they have to build it safe first, and then make as much interior space as possible while keeping it safe for all occupants. We had two employees both 6'1" sit in the back seat of the car we had in the showroom and both of their heads barely touched the ceiling because of the bubble.

Also the sale projection for this calendar year, April thru December is 26k A3 units (A3/S3/Cabriolet/Q3) and for that number to increase each year. the last A3 was a hatch which is unwanted in the US in mass. a sedan however will sell like hotcakes.


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## louabt (Mar 9, 2002)

If audi kept the A3 as a hatchback it would make shopping for a small german car easy.
AUDI A3 hatchback
BMW 2series coupe
MBENZ CLA sedan


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> Its mind boggling that anyone can honestly gripe about space and headroom in the A3 when it is specifically marketed to be noticably smaller. Thats its entire raison d'être!
> 
> If you want more room, Audi offered the bloaty A4 for the past decade as their "small" sedan!


Of course anyone over 6' is going to feel cramped in the back and has concerns. A golf is more spacious. It doesn't really bother me, but the 8V is 7" shorter than a jetta. The B5 A4 always had a problem with headroom in the rear. I'm surprised they didn't eek out another .5" of headroom to address that shortcoming, but I'm sure Audi had good reasons (likely threw off the design aesthetics). We all love that Audi has something smaller than the boaty A4 available (I could be wrong, but isn't the A5 based on the same B8 MLB platform???), but they're cutting it close in the headroom.

I will say access thru the rear doors seems much better than the previous gen A3 and my knee isn't touching the ignition key. And, I read recently that the difference in rear seat legroom between the A3 saloon and the A4 is something like .1". The size of the car is almost perfect to me, though it'd be nice to know one could sit up straight in the back seat (not being sarcastic).


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

Space is a weak argument, for obvious reasons..... I think if it was 2K-3K cheaper this thread wouldn't exist..... I though the new A3 with the MQB design was suppose to make the A3 line cheaper but I guess that's wrong.... and locking the S-line options has ticked everyone off lol..... I think we just have to wait and see how it plays out.... If sales are bad they will have no choice but to make changes.........


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

jubasa said:


> Coupes with their 2+2 seating are not a legitimate option for me and I have little interest in the 2-series unless they come out with a grand coupe. We don't have children but we do have parents and friends. I've never bought a daily driver with less than 4 doors, and I doubt I will anytime soon. So, while the size may seem comparable to you, they are completely different cars to me.
> 
> BTW, what you term to be a midget sedan, is similar in size to the B5 A4, a perfectly good sized car in 2001. I've haven't increased in size since then, and neither have the lanes become wider. I'm just happy that this car exists today but I suppose it was inevitable given the steady bloat of the A4, C-class and 3-series.
> 
> ...


Well said, x3. 



dmorrow said:


> As for the "brand whore" comments, I am interested in hearing from the ones on this forum that at never consider the brand when they purchase merchandise.


Interesting thought. I'm sure most folks do, but at what level? For me its Old Navy, not Gap. Most of my running clothing is from Target (aside from sneakers), not from the fancy names.

For me an A3 would be a one, rare "luxury" indulgence.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Chimera said:


> Of course anyone over 6' is going to feel cramped in the back and has concerns. A golf is more spacious. It doesn't really bother me, but the 8V is 7" shorter than a jetta. The B5 A4 always had a problem with headroom in the rear. *I'm surprised they didn't eek out another .5" of headroom to address that shortcoming, but I'm sure Audi had good reasons (likely threw off the design aesthetics)*. We all love that Audi has something smaller than the boaty A4 available (I could be wrong, but isn't the A5 based on the same B8 MLB platform???), but they're cutting it close in the headroom.
> 
> I will say access thru the rear doors seems much better than the previous gen A3 and my knee isn't touching the ignition key. And, I read recently that the difference in rear seat legroom between the A3 saloon and the A4 is something like .1". The size of the car is almost perfect to me, though it'd be nice to know one could sit up straight in the back seat (not being sarcastic).


Yes, just that little bit would make a big difference to me and I really think they could of made it happen and understand design took precedence. Hey I do not plan on sitting in backseat so to me just something I feel like an extra inch would go a long way, so it was a disappointment, that is what this thread is about.

As a side note I was never able to confirm whether the car had folding seatback, anyone see that?


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

davewg said:


> Interesting thought. I'm sure most folks do, but at what level? For me its Old Navy, not Gap. Most of my running clothing is from Target (aside from sneakers), not from the fancy names.
> 
> For me an A3 would be a one, rare "luxury" indulgence.


Probably not the standard Audi buyer. Even then you are choosing a brand over lesser ones, just at a lower level than you could. I don't believe Walmart jeans would perform any worse but I don't buy them. I guess I am also a "brand whore". Many Audi buyer's will at least partially buy the car because of the brand, it's standard practice of any higher end brand and one that Audi spends a lot of money and time maintaining. If Kia came out with the exact same car they would have to sell it at a lower price point because of the brand.

For many it seems that they wanted more car for less money, hardly revolutionary thinking. From the posts above it looks like the price isn't that far off from the previous generation and the previous generation was first at a show in 2003. I am expecting there have been a lot of improvements in the last 10 years.


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## rMBA13 (Jan 3, 2014)

overpriced, plus will break easily....


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

livestrong191 said:


> When I started looking at the A3 as begin of the year as my next car comparing it to CLA 250 and BMW 2 series 228 msports pkg . I thought I had a good line-up to choose from. But when the configurators came online and price points I was shocked how much I would have to pay for a A3 for it to look half decent. Both BMW and Mercedes have wait times and CLA is pushing to 2015 model delivery times so that out.
> 
> How many are moving on from the A3 now that you got feel for it. I might just might get a A4 full loaded black optic package if I choose a Audi ( discounting heavily)


I grabbed a B8 S4 for now /w warranty and pulled my deposit on the S3.
Back in December when they had the A3 release events here in Canada, they had an A4 and A6 alongside. 

There is a lot more emotion stirred up in the A4 / A6 when I sat in them, where the A3 was missing, I don't care what anyone says but it feels like what the next generation Jetta should be loaded...I know I well documented that in other threads. After driving the S4, it made it even harder because it just simply is on a different level, that's by simply sitting in it and not hitting the 'Start' button.

Not willing to pay full price for sure on the S3 when it comes out, and missing out on incentives, it's a tad more then I would be willing to pay for it and say it is a great value. Likely give it a test drive when they show up on the lot when I am in for maintenance that's for sure.

Off the bat, the only thing I know I would be excited getting into the S3 for, is the fuel savings. I think the driving dynamics which I haven't experienced obviously might sway me, along with the personal intangible of emotion it draws while driving...but to be seen. With the S4, the bar has been set pretty damn high.


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## lilmira (Feb 4, 2014)

The S4 is a fun car for sure. I sure had fun with it few weeks ago. I say that may be my back up plan as well. The only bad thing is that you know the next gen is just around corner.

Did you get the sport diff? Any decent discount may I ask?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Rudy_H said:


> I grabbed a B8 S4 for now /w warranty and pulled my deposit on the S3.
> Back in December when they had the A3 release events here in Canada, they had an A4 and A6 alongside.
> 
> There is a lot more emotion stirred up in the A4 / A6 when I sat in them, where the A3 was missing, I don't care what anyone says but it feels like what the next generation Jetta should be loaded...I know I well documented that in other threads. After driving the S4, it made it even harder because it just simply is on a different level, that's by simply sitting in it and not hitting the 'Start' button.
> ...


Drove a 2012 S4 6MT with Drive Select and Sport Diff about two years ago and it was a blast. About six months ago I took a 2013 S-Tronic for a run, and even without the diff and drive select, the car was an absolute blast. Definitely enough oomph to get me into trouble. ;-)


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

I guess the A3 is being squeezed by the GLI. I'm not sure about the states but the GLI comes with HIDs in Canada. Bling it up with leather etc and it still costs quite a bit less than a A3. And you can get a manual transmission! The VW reps I spoke with seemed to be pushing for "R" versions of other models in their lineup. That is, drop the S3 engine in the golf sportwagen, CC with 4 motion.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Congrats Rudy. As I said before on my review on the A3 back in Jan Boston Auto show and sitting in the S4, I absolutely loved the S4 the difference between it and the A4 was night and day. Why wait to drive the dream, drive it now. I wish I could free up the purse strings for an S4 heck and S3 but ain't going to happen. Enjoy your new ride, it really is a beaut.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Saw this in Car and Driver - http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-pushes-back-introductions-of-next-gen-a4-and-q7-again/

It will be interesting to see when the A4 actually gets here and if the S4 will be at the same time or after.



> Audi’s new head of R&D Ulrich Hackenberg is leaving no stone unturned, according to Focus. *The German publication reports that the next generation of the A4 will be delayed until the summer of 2015* and that the next Q7 is being delayed again for sub-standard styling.
> 
> The new A4 was originally scheduled to launch later this year. The brand will use this extended timeframe to tweak the car’s styling and fine-tune the suspension and assistance systems. Moreover, Audi is rushing a plug-in hybrid option into production in order to make it available soon after the A4′s launch.





kevlartoronto said:


> I guess the A3 is being squeezed by the GLI. I'm not sure about the states but the GLI comes with HIDs in Canada. Bling it up with leather etc and it still costs quite a bit less than a A3. And you can get a manual transmission! The VW reps I spoke with seemed to be pushing for "R" versions of other models in their lineup. That is, drop the S3 engine in the golf sportwagen, CC with 4 motion.


The A3 has always been priced between the Jetta and A4. I don't see it being any different now. You can also get a top of the line CC or Passat cheaper than the A4.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

dmorrow said:


> Saw this in Car and Driver - http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-pushes-back-introductions-of-next-gen-a4-and-q7-again/
> 
> It will be interesting to see when the A4 actually gets here and if the S4 will be at the same time or after.
> 
> ...


Yes the Jetta has always been cheaper than the A3 but with the addition of HIDs and several other options the GLI is becoming a much closer alternative.


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## Eurofan4eva (Aug 21, 2002)

Need manual, MPI, and Sportback! I would then buy one... At the price it looks like its an S4 for me.


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## rMBA13 (Jan 3, 2014)

kevlartoronto said:


> Yes the Jetta has always been cheaper than the A3 but with the addition of HIDs and several other options the GLI is becoming a much closer alternative.


no quattro, no go


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

dmorrow said:


> Saw this in Car and Driver - http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-pushes-back-introductions-of-next-gen-a4-and-q7-again/
> 
> It will be interesting to see when the A4 actually gets here and if the S4 will be at the same time or after.
> 
> The A3 has always been priced between the Jetta and A4. I don't see it being any different now. You can also get a top of the line CC or Passat cheaper than the A4.


Audi is in a seriously lucky position with the Q7 right now: the car is selling like hotcakes, 8 years after its introduction here in the US. It amazes me how well a model that old continues to sell. I suspect this has a lot to do with Audi's willingness to keep delaying: they aren't having too much trouble selling the current one!

What C&D says about the A4 jives with what I've heard from across the pond as well. It's launch timeframe has essentially shifted from September 2014 (Paris) to March 2015 (Geneva), with the on sale date shifting from January 2015 to probably August 2015. If the past is any indication, that means we won't see the B9 here until early 2016 (launch in LA in November 2015 or NAIAS in January 2016), with an on-sale date of around March 2016. 

The question for the B9 is how they roll out the A5 and Q5 along with that. Since Q5 will be coming to us from Mexico next time around, with that factory not opening until early 2016, I bet we see B9 A4 on sale in March, Q5 on sale in the autumn of 2016 and A5 somewhere in between.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

re the mpi. The s3 will get no mpi, pending confirmation, but will still get the valve lift ? or whatever that's called. My lack of enthusiasm for the golf 6r is the soft bottom end but does the valve lift take care of this issue somewhat? I know the port inj would have and would make tuning much easier but that is apparently not applicable


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

mookieblaylock said:


> re the mpi. The s3 will get no mpi, pending confirmation, but will still get the valve lift ? or whatever that's called. My lack of enthusiasm for the golf 6r is the soft bottom end but does the valve lift take care of this issue somewhat? I know the port inj would have and would make tuning much easier but that is apparently not applicable


It takes the 2.0TFSI about 3000 RPM to spool a K04 to full boost, port injection does not help spool faster valve lift can help but the difference will be marginal. Port injection helps in several ways, cold starts can be done without any intake flap/tumbler trickery, intake port carbon buildup is eliminated, likely some benefit to aftermarket tunes and those looking to bolt on larger turbos.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

GTI2Slow said:


> It takes the 2.0TFSI about 3000 RPM to spool a K04 to full boost, port injection does not help spool faster valve lift can help but the difference will be marginal. Port injection helps in several ways, *cold starts can be done without any intake flap/tumbler trickery*, intake port carbon buildup is eliminated, likely some benefit to aftermarket tunes and those looking to bolt on larger turbos.


I hope they've since fixed the utter piece of **** they designed for the BPY motor. That damn thing would die twice a year if I caved and gave it a new one each time it ****s the bed.

Can you tell I hate the flapper motor? :laugh:


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I suspect that there will be tumble flaps on the gen3 e888 motor (Or Audi will use a tweaked current 2nd gen motor) if Audi does away with port injectors. DI is a great tech but during low rpm and cold starts it cannot properly atomize fuel in the combustion chamber thus the need for intake runner flaps or tumble valves.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

GTI2Slow said:


> I suspect that there will be tumble flaps on the gen3 e888 motor (Or Audi will use a tweaked current 2nd gen motor) if Audi does away with port injectors. DI is a great tech but during low rpm and cold starts it cannot properly atomize fuel in the combustion chamber thus the need for intake runner flaps or tumble valves.


I was always under the impression that the flap (which always seems to fail in the open position, at least in my case) really only affected fuel economy and power at higher RPM. I haven't really noticed a difference in starting behavior; is there an impact on starting behavior? I can tell you I certainly agree with the assertion that it impacts fuel economy.

:banghead:


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

There are a few videos of cars running a runner flap delete kit (RFD) without a tune, the engine does not always "catch" and needs several attempts to start and when started misfires quite badly while hunting for a stable idle RPM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQu-SM-JWkM

There are some emissions benefits but I suspect starting the car in cold weather is the primary purpose, if left open they will be a significant obstruction in the intake. APR offers a tune along with the runner flap delete kit but from what Ive read it does not handle starts in below freezing temperatures gracefully.

I really am starting to suspect that we may see a tweaked version of the 2nd generation EA888 (Without dual injection and the turbo manifold cast into the head) in the S3, that may explain the lack of solid power numbers and EPA ratings yet. I cannot see Audi taking the development costs to develop new systems when a perfectly serviceable motor is available in the parts bin.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

There was a post from Arin from APR a few days ago in the mk7 forum indicating that they'd have tune figures fairly soon (the "coming weeks", I think he said, but would have to verify. I suppose that's still fairly vague.). How isn't it 100% clear whether we're getting MPI and/or the integrated manifold at this point? Surely someone like APR is working with a US spec engine and know difinitively, no?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

GTI2Slow said:


> There are a few videos of cars running a runner flap delete kit (RFD) without a tune, the engine does not always "catch" and needs several attempts to start and when started misfires quite badly while hunting for a stable idle RPM:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQu-SM-JWkM
> 
> ...


Wow. That sounds like utter ass.


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## analytics51 (Feb 22, 2014)

*Why I chose an A# over everything else......*

I totally get why the A3 is such a big deal and would not buy the A4 until it is totally redesigned for 2016. The "3" is a brilliant design with technology that is better than any competitor. I just walked away from a M235 at invoice and ordered an A3 Prestige 2.0. The reasons were many. I've driven BMW's for years and frankly the interiors are bland and everything is an "extra". The M235 MSRP was $44K with absolutely nothing on it. The A3 with everything was $41K and the fit and finish are just outstanding.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

analytics51 said:


> I totally get why the A3 is such a big deal and would not buy the A4 until it is totally redesigned for 2016. The "3" is a brilliant design with technology that is better than any competitor. I just walked away from a M235 at invoice and ordered an A3 Prestige 2.0. The reasons were many. I've driven BMW's for years and frankly the interiors are bland and everything is an "extra". The M235 MSRP was $44K with absolutely nothing on it. The A3 with everything was $41K and the fit and finish are just outstanding.





Dan Halen said:


> This car is uncompromised luxury..


:laugh:


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

GTI2Slow said:


> It takes the 2.0TFSI about 3000 RPM to spool a K04 to full boost, port injection does not help spool faster valve lift can help but the difference will be marginal. Port injection helps in several ways, cold starts can be done without any intake flap/tumbler trickery, intake port carbon buildup is eliminated, likely some benefit to aftermarket tunes and those looking to bolt on larger turbos.


We'll, valve lift may not help the turbo spool up faster, but it does add a significant chunk of tq on the low end compared the the vw version. Maybe valve lift with a bigger turbo will at least feel better on the bottom end?





GTI2Slow said:


> I really am starting to suspect that we may see a tweaked version of the 2nd generation EA888 (Without dual injection and the turbo manifold cast into the head) in the S3, that may explain the lack of solid power numbers and EPA ratings yet. I cannot see Audi taking the development costs to develop new systems when a perfectly serviceable motor is available in the parts bin.


Right... so basically all the great things I read about the motor aren't coming to the US and we'll get a golf-r/tt-s motor with tweaks.


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## codewhore (Oct 22, 2006)

Chimera said:


> How isn't it 100% clear whether we're getting MPI and/or the integrated manifold at this point? Surely someone like APR is working with a US spec engine and know difinitively, no?


How would they have a US spec engine? It's not like the gaming industry where the console makers have pre release units available for software developers to build games for.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## codewhore (Oct 22, 2006)

The DarkSide said:


> Right... so basically all the great things I read about the motor aren't coming to the US and we'll get a golf-r/tt-s motor with tweaks.


The current Golf R/Audi TT engine is the EA113 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

codewhore said:


> The current Golf R/Audi TT engine is the EA113
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Right. They better not push that on us. I doubt there's any risk of that. I imagine we're getting worked up over almost nothing.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

The DarkSide said:


> Right... so basically all the great things I read about the motor aren't coming to the US and we'll get a golf-r/tt-s motor with tweaks.


If we are not getting MPI then the 2nd generation EA888 motor is preferable. The turbo manifold cast into the head will likely result in limited aftermarket support.

Edit: It looks like we are getting the motor with the integrated turbo manifold and without MPI (Perhaps at a later date) according to the 'A3 Dealer Education PDF' thread. This is really unfortunate as the turbo flange will be a real limitation (EGT and back pressure).


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

mookieblaylock said:


> re the mpi. *The s3 will get no mpi*, pending confirmation, but will still get the valve lift ? or whatever that's called. My lack of enthusiasm for the golf 6r is the soft bottom end but does the valve lift take care of this issue somewhat? I know the port inj would have and would make tuning much easier but that is apparently not applicable


And that's my sticking point. No s3/r for me. RS3, or other brand. ****ing ridiculous.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

The S3 may have it, but for anyone expecting to not have to deal with carbon buildup this is bad news.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

GTI2Slow said:


> If we are not getting MPI then the 2nd generation EA888 motor is preferable. The turbo manifold cast into the head will likely result in limited aftermarket support.
> 
> Edit: It looks like we are getting the motor with the integrated turbo manifold and without MPI (Perhaps at a later date) according to the 'A3 Dealer Education PDF' thread. This is really unfortunate as the turbo flange will be a real limitation (EGT and back pressure).


:laugh: I'm perfectly ok with that - it's a plus. Not everyone want's to immediately (or ever) modify their 40-50k car.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

The DarkSide said:


> :laugh: I'm perfectly ok with that - it's a plus. Not everyone want's to immediately (or ever) modify their 40-50k car.


I plan to get a tune almost immediately. Right now the A3's motor seems like a deal breaker. If the S3 comes with MPI or without the integrated turbo manifold it would be great.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

The DarkSide said:


> :laugh: I'm perfectly ok with that - it's a plus. Not everyone want's to immediately (or ever) modify their 40-50k car.


How is it a plus in any way? Less aftermarket potential along with continued carbon build up. Fantastic:thumbup:


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

HalvieCuw said:


> How is it a plus in any way? Less aftermarket potential along with continued carbon build up. Fantastic:thumbup:


I was referring to the integrated exhaust manifold, not the lack of dual injection. Integrated manifold does have benefits. I don't think it's going to effect much outside of turbo upgrades


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

GTI2Slow said:


> I plan to get a tune almost immediately. Right now the A3's motor seems like a deal breaker. If the S3 comes with MPI or without the integrated turbo manifold it would be great.


The new R and the S3 will not have port injection, for the US.


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## Professor Gascan (Sep 11, 2002)

I've generated some pretty thin reasons for not buying a car, but I'm pretty sure no MPI takes the cake. 


At this point, it isn't 100% either. All that has been confirmed is the lack of MPI on the A3 1.8T, 2.0T, and GTI 220hp 2.0T. That's it. Anything more is idle speculation. 

Here was Jamie's response:



[email protected] said:


> Short answer is that I don't have a definitive answer yet...
> 
> Supposedly the new U.S. Golf 7 GTI with Performance Pack (higher HP engine) built in Mexico with the 2.0TSI built in Mexico will have MPI - that's the last I heard, but I'm still waiting on firm confirmation. You would think that the Golf R with the higher output 2.0TSI would also have MPI, but we don't know yet. Germany does odd things at times and it can sometimes take a lot of emails (which get passed around a lot to different people in Germany) to try and get a firm answer on a specific car, for a specific market, 11 months out.
> 
> ...


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

Professor Gascan said:


> I've generated some pretty thin reasons for not buying a car, but I'm pretty sure no MPI takes the cake.
> 
> 
> At this point, it isn't 100% either. All that has been confirmed is the lack of MPI on the A3 1.8T, 2.0T, and GTI 220hp 2.0T. That's it. Anything more is idle speculation.
> ...


It isn't thin. If I am going to be dumping another 15-20k into the car in mods I don't want to get boned again by buying an inferior version of the car. If you don't plan on doing much to the car, yeah, it isn't that big of a deal.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Professor Gascan said:


> I've generated some pretty thin reasons for not buying a car, but I'm pretty sure no MPI takes the cake.
> 
> 
> At this point, it isn't 100% either. All that has been confirmed is the lack of MPI on the A3 1.8T, 2.0T, and GTI 220hp 2.0T. That's it. Anything more is idle speculation.
> ...




We have confirmation. You and Jamie are just not aware of it.

majorly bummed myself :thumbdown:


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

HalvieCuw said:


> It isn't thin. If I am going to be dumping another 15-20k into the car in mods I don't want to get boned again by buying an inferior version of the car. If you don't plan on doing much to the car, yeah, it isn't that big of a deal.


i'm just planning a flash and suspension pretty much. I think the 2.0T A3 is going to be more than plenty for the street.


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## OriginalBeast (Sep 16, 2011)

RyanA3 said:


> We have confirmation. You and Jamie are just not aware of it.
> 
> majorly bummed myself :thumbdown:


Where is this confirmation? Jamie who runs VWVortex doesn't even know yet. Please tell us all how you have solid verifiable evidence that states "2015 S3 &/or Golf R will not have MPI"

I am all ears and would love to see it


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

OriginalBeast said:


> Where is this confirmation? Jamie who runs VWVortex doesn't even know yet. Please tell us all how you have solid verifiable evidence that states "2015 S3 &/or Golf R will not have MPI"
> 
> I am all ears and would love to see it



George who also works for vortex, or owns fourtitude/whatever, has confirmation that the S3 will not have multi port injection.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6910603-S3-Pricing&p=84927861&viewfull=1#post84927861



[email protected] said:


> A dealer contact of ours (I won't reveal who) reached out to me today about this story. I've updated the story linked above to reflect this. He said a few things.
> 
> 1) He confirmed pricing.
> 
> ...



I have direct contact with someone from VOA. He confirmed the new R will not have it.

APR has also stated that they have known this for some time.

I'm sorry.

edit to add: we should have a dedicated thread on this specific issue. it's important.
I have added some info from Arin at APR to this new thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-injection-(mpi)-as-seen-with-the-Euro-model


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## OriginalBeast (Sep 16, 2011)

RyanA3 said:


> George who also works for vortex, or owns fourtitude/whatever, has confirmation that the S3 will not have multi port injection.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6910603-S3-Pricing&p=84927861&viewfull=1#post84927861
> 
> ...



Until I see "*verifiable*" proof, like here: http://media.vw.com/release/599/ where I can actually read myself not hearsay, I'm gonna just relax on the topic and believe what VW has 
published to the public. Till then you can tell me that your sister is the best friend of the wives to the presidents of AOA & VWOA and I still won't believe you. 

If this is the case I will gladly keep my 2012 Audi and just go stage 2 and get the same performance that you get with a stock S3 and still have a hatchback :laugh: I'm not trying to be rude, but your proof is still hearsay until it is written out from AOA or VWOA changes their Press Release.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

OriginalBeast said:


> Until I see "*verifiable*" proof, like here: http://media.vw.com/release/599/ where I can actually read myself not hearsay, I'm gonna just relax on the topic and believe what VW has
> published to the public. Till then you can tell me that your sister is the best friend of the wives to the presidents of AOA & VWOA and I still won't believe you.
> 
> If this is the case I will gladly keep my 2012 Audi and just go stage 2 and get the same performance that you get with a stock S3 and still have a hatchback :laugh: I'm not trying to be rude, but your proof is still hearsay until it is written out from AOA or VWOA changes their Press Release.


Your A3 is already proof that they have done it once.


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## OriginalBeast (Sep 16, 2011)

HalvieCuw said:


> Your A3 is already proof that they have done it once.


I'm confused, could you elaborate?


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

OriginalBeast said:


> I'm confused, could you elaborate?


Our hpfp is garbage. ROW hpfp isn't. Can't swap them.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

analytics51 said:


> I totally get why the A3 is such a big deal and would not buy the A4 until it is totally redesigned for 2016. The "3" is a brilliant design with technology that is better than any competitor. I just walked away from a M235 at invoice and ordered an A3 Prestige 2.0. The reasons were many. I've driven BMW's for years and frankly the interiors are bland and everything is an "extra". The M235 MSRP was $44K with absolutely nothing on it. The A3 with everything was $41K and the fit and finish are just outstanding.


an A3 with "everything" is $45k. you forgot to order stuff like the Advanced Tech Package if you're only hitting $41k. MSRP of mine is $45,125 sale price will be much lower


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

OriginalBeast said:


> Until I see "*verifiable*" proof, like here: http://media.vw.com/release/599/ where I can actually read myself not hearsay, I'm gonna just relax on the topic and believe what VW has
> published to the public. Till then you can tell me that your sister is the best friend of the wives to the presidents of AOA & VWOA and I still won't believe you.
> 
> If this is the case I will gladly keep my 2012 Audi and just go stage 2 and get the same performance that you get with a stock S3 and still have a hatchback :laugh: I'm not trying to be rude, but your proof is still hearsay until it is written out from AOA or VWOA changes their Press Release.


that's fine. you're not being rude, just stubborn, lol!
I guess you don't believe in "inside information" or whatever you want to call it.
there are times when there is solid information, and it's just not permitted to be made public.
it's still solid.
APR has been in EU for a while now, working on the tune. They have known for a few months.

Cheers.


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## OriginalBeast (Sep 16, 2011)

RyanA3 said:


> that's fine. you're not being rude, just stubborn, lol!
> I guess you don't believe in "inside information" or whatever you want to call it.
> there are times when there is solid information, and it's just not permitted to be made public.
> it's still solid.
> ...


Glad I didn't come off rude  you are only making stage 2+ look better and better. If/when this becomes official I'm going to order a new rear diffuser for quads and drive to my nearest arp dealer -__- 

AOA &/or VOA please make me buy a new car lol!

Also since you "got the inside scoop" any word on a stateside RS3 Sportback? I would do unthinkable things to buy one. My deposit would be at the dealership tomorrow if they announced that!


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

analytics51 said:


> I totally get why the A3 is such a big deal and would not buy the A4 until it is totally redesigned for 2016. The "3" is a brilliant design with technology that is better than any competitor. I just walked away from a M235 at invoice and ordered an A3 Prestige 2.0. The reasons were many. I've driven BMW's for years and frankly the interiors are bland and everything is an "extra". The M235 MSRP was $44K with absolutely nothing on it. The A3 with everything was $41K and the fit and finish are just outstanding.


so... you walked away from what is basically a 300 HP hot-rod coupe that could spank an S4 (and is priced accordingly) and went with an A3 2.0 automatic, and you're comparing the cars directly. OK.

Are you in the US? did you see or sit in or drive an A3? I'm asking becuase I've not seen one yet, sat in one yet, or drive one yet, and would appreciate a better discourse of what makes the A3 better or worse than the BMW, and why if you were shopping for an automatic sedan you were looking at the M235 instead of a 328? 

just curious.


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## Ti[email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

OriginalBeast said:


> Also since you "got the inside scoop" any word on a stateside RS3 Sportback?


There is no word on an RS3 anything right now. 

-Tim


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

analytics51 said:


> I've driven BMW's for years and frankly the interiors are bland and everything is an "extra".


Having sat in the A3 and driven it for an afternoon, I have the say the interior and _especially _the dash is most certainly bland.

While I have not driven the 235 and cannot comment on the performance differences, I have sat in it and at least the car feels like it is actually built around the driver to some degree, and I am not sitting at an office desk.

That was my main gripe about the A3 (and eventual S3). The dash and interior is 100% forgettable IMO. I got in my B8.5 after driving it and it felt far and away more like a cockpit. I think they went slightly overboard on the minimalism with the new design.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> That was my main gripe about the A3 (and eventual S3). The dash and interior is 100% forgettable IMO. I got in my B8.5 after driving it and it felt far and away more like a cockpit. I think they went slightly overboard on the minimalism with the new design.


It's just the opposite to me. I don't think it's forgettable, but I understand the point you're making. Put another way, other interiors are memorable for unnecessary or unfavorable reasons, IMO... ergo, memorable in a bad way.


----------



## dustinvandeman (Dec 23, 2013)

ChrisFu said:


> Having sat in the A3 and driven it for an afternoon, I have the say the interior and _especially _the dash is most certainly bland.
> 
> While I have not driven the 235 and cannot comment on the performance differences, I have sat in it and at least the car feels like it is actually built around the driver to some degree, and I am not sitting at an office desk.
> 
> That was my main gripe about the A3 (and eventual S3). The dash and interior is 100% forgettable IMO. I got in my B8.5 after driving it and it felt far and away more like a cockpit. I think they went slightly overboard on the minimalism with the new design.


I've drove the A3 and I personally loved the interior. I hate it when the interior is cluttered with 10000 unnecessary buttons. I like the minimalist design and it makes it look more sophisticated and less gimmicky in my opinion.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

dustinvandeman said:


> I've drove the A3 and I personally loved the interior. I hate it when the interior is cluttered with 10000 unnecessary buttons. I like the minimalist design and it makes it look more sophisticated and less gimmicky in my opinion.


This. My FILs Acura RDX has buttons everywhere - confusing as heck. Same reason I rejected a G35x years ago - the interior/dash was awful.


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## Zorro83 (Sep 10, 2011)

Because of its minimalist design, this A3/S3 will age very well.


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## dustinvandeman (Dec 23, 2013)

Zorro83 said:


> Because of its minimalist design, this A3/S3 will age very well.


Couldn't agree more.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Zorro83 said:


> Because of its minimalist design, this A3/S3 will age very well.





dustinvandeman said:


> Couldn't agree more.


Yep. It's a benefit I've mentioned in previous threads, but it absolutely bears repeating.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

I will be curious to see if you guys feel the same way after driving it.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> I will be curious to see if you guys feel the same way after driving it.


I've had seat time in it. That's close enough for me.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> It's just the opposite to me. I don't think it's forgettable, but I understand the point you're making. Put another way, other interiors are memorable for unnecessary or unfavorable reasons, IMO... ergo, memorable in a bad way.


I'm with Dan on this. I really like the minimalist look, it gives the interior a spacious feeling even though its a small car. I'm much more impressed with the quality of materials used in a car interior as opposed to fancy interior designs.


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## dustinvandeman (Dec 23, 2013)

ChrisFu said:


> I will be curious to see if you guys feel the same way after driving it.


I've drove it and loved it. I don't want my car looking gimmicky and cheap like the new cla250


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

DaLeadBull said:


> I'm with Dan on this. I really like the minimalist look, it gives the interior a spacious feeling even though its a small car. I'm much more impressed with the quality of materials used in a car interior as opposed to fancy interior designs.


If I could get away with having a house much like the one used in the Sonos Super Bowl commercial, I would. My wife calls the shots on the house, though, and while she likes minimalist design, that's a bit too minimalist for her. I'm interested in seeing what she has to say about the interior of the S3 when she sees it for the first time.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

DaLeadBull said:


> I'm with Dan on this. I really like the minimalist look, it gives the interior a spacious feeling even though its a small car. I'm much more impressed with the quality of materials used in a car interior as opposed to fancy interior designs.


Makes three of us at least. I'm looking forward to having my opinion (based on photos) validated in person.


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## Wiley337 (May 1, 2002)

I got to see an A3 in-person yesterday in San Diego. It was a 1.8 premium plus trim, white, black interior. It was the last day it was at the dealer, and they were not allowing people to drive it. They said there were getting several A3s, including 2.0s first week in March.

Thoughts, opinions, and my situation:

I liked the interior quite a bit. While it has all the gadgets, the are not jumping out at you. Besides the nav screen, the round vents dominate the dashboard landscape, and they are nice looking. I originally was not sure I would like the pop up screen. I thought it was going to feel out of place. Nope, it is actually just on the right line of your sight. It does not cut off any windshield view, which I thought might happen given the angle of the photos I have seen. Overall everything had a quality, rich feel to it. Relative to the other Audis there, it felt less pretentious.

While not a surprise, the A3 is a small car. Pictures make it look bigger. I really like smaller cars. However, I do have wife and a 2 year old. The trunk is short. I really want to see how much the Quattro reduces the trunk space. Our relatively small travel stroller could only fit diagonally in the 1.8, and it was a little tight. Also putting in the car seat we have in the middle of back seat, means no other passengers back there. We could move the car seat to one side, but hey, the kid likes to see out the front, he declares "more fast" with each acceleration. The wife says things will be tight sometimes, but definitely doable.

So looking at the numbers, and back to the original question. Am I disappointed in the 2015 A3 platform? Do I want it to be priced less, sure. Do I want it to have a little bit different numbers in a few places, sure. But I am not disappointed. I think Audi is balancing a fine line with here, and looking carefully at the competition as well as the reality of physics. There are other choices out there right now, but I am not sure the % difference in the things that matter to me are going sway me too much.

So what I am going to get? Well, right now I am thinking of really going for it. A prestige S3 with the mag ride, color pending, maybe white. I believe the family will use and appreciate just about every feature/option to satisfaction, and well, see above, my son wants something "more fast" . Yep, we are talking $50kish. An amount I would not have considered paying for a car until recently. But my wife and I share one car. So I end up spending a fair amount of quality time in the car with the family on a daily basis. She then drives it quite a bit and appreciates a performance car. The driving includes places I can twist and turn, accelerate fast, and sadly in some heavy stop and go traffic (adaptive cruise control to the rescue I hope!). So I am putting my eggs in one basket so to speak, but I anticipate it will be fun, comfortable, safe, and overall enjoyable family experience.

Maybe the one thing I am nervous about: No manual clutch. The wife and I have had manuals since 1993. Even stop and go traffic does not bug us that much, although more so lately since it is work week reality. I know things such as the adaptive cruise needs it, and the DSG is about as good automatic transmission as you can get. You get better 0-60 with DSG, and paddle shifters are fun. But, well, you know, a manual clutch connects you to the car. Anyone out there made the switch and never looked back?

Anyway, now the waiting game. Aug/Sep is a long time for the S3.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Wiley337 said:


> I got to see an A3 in-person yesterday in San Diego. It was a 1.8 premium plus trim, white, black interior. It was the last day it was at the dealer, and they were not allowing people to drive it. They said there were getting several A3s, including 2.0s first week in March.
> 
> Thoughts, opinions, and my situation:
> 
> ...


any word if the car is coming back up to LA. I missed it the last time cause it was on a weekday.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

Wiley337 said:


> the DSG is about as good automatic transmission as you can get. You get better 0-60 with DSG, and paddle shifters are fun. But, well, you know, a manual clutch connects you to the car. Anyone out there made the switch and never looked back?


I was a die hard manual person most of my life. I never even drove an automatic car until I was in my late 20's. If I had been born 5 years earlier, I'd probably be one of those people whinging the death of manuals and how DSG is teh terribles. Then something happened. I turned 30 and took a job in one of the worst traffic congested areas in the nation. I went from a manual (last 2 cars were a 2005 golf TDI, and a 2007 350z roadster, both manuals) to a 2010 GTI with DSG. I have never looked back. In fact, I'm not sure I can ever go back. Unless I find a sub 30 minute commute.

My wife is manual junkie. She doesn't understand how I have "given" up. She desperately wants us to have a manual car again. She doesn't get it because she doesn't sit in stop and go for 45 minutes a day to cover 8-10 miles.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Wiley! I would not share a $50k car with my wife and baby. So maybe drop mag ride? Or get something else that you may not love so much? I'm sorry, I don't have kids. But there are moms and their minivans, all around me. It's insane what happens to vehicles. 

They are now starting to incorporate vacuums into minivans! Lol. 

Anyway, I hope it works out for you. 


P.s. Please don't complain too much, that the trunk is too small, and the back seat is too small - at the same as saying that you like small cars. There is an A4 and also plenty of SUVs and crossovers out there  we want small cars, as an option here in the US. In Europe, they put entire families in A3 and A2 and smaller. 

Cheers


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

Wiley337 said:


> Maybe the one thing I am nervous about: No manual clutch. The wife and I have had manuals since 1993. Even stop and go traffic does not bug us that much, although more so lately since it is work week reality. I know things such as the adaptive cruise needs it, and the DSG is about as good automatic transmission as you can get. You get better 0-60 with DSG, and paddle shifters are fun. But, well, you know, a manual clutch connects you to the car. Anyone out there made the switch and never looked back?


Background wise: every car I ever owned was a stick. Then DSG came out, and I wanted to try it. I bought a MKV GTI with DSG, and drove it for almost five years. I really liked it. It had some little annoyances here and there, but it was a good transmission. I replaced that with a MKVI GTI that's a manual, but I've also spent a bunch of time in cars with newer versions of DSG. In the newer versions, they've fixed all the little things that annoyed me about my old one.

At this point, I would happily buy a DSG car and not think twice about it. Yes, your foot isn't using a clutch pedal, and you can't modulate the speed / acceleration of the car by slipping the clutch or whatever, but there are other ways to do that, and in a lot of situations the DSG is just better than a traditional manual is. It's *much* faster, and in performance driving situations I found that it made me a better driver because it allowed me to concentrate more on other aspects of what I was doing. In addition to that, the DSG can shift in places that would upset the balance of the car if you tried it with a traditional manual.

I wouldn't have reservations about it if I were you.



-Tim


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Not to purposely drudge up this discussion again, but there seem to be two camps in the manual versus DSG debate: those who argue based on performance, and those who argue based on feel. I fall into the 'feel' camp, whereby I like the interaction between the clutch and stick. Don't ask why, it's almost therapeutic for me. I don't even mind it in heavy traffic (caveat: I don't often drive in heavy traffic, one of the few perks of Northeast Ohio living). 

I think that if you are arguing performance there is no way to beat DSG. Phenomenally quick, efficient and works well. 

I just enjoy the feel of the clutch and stick. One day I'll have to get over it, I suppose...



[email protected] said:


> Background wise: every car I ever owned was a stick. Then DSG came out, and I wanted to try it. I bought a MKV GTI with DSG, and drove it for almost five years. I really liked it. It had some little annoyances here and there, but it was a good transmission. I replaced that with a MKVI GTI that's a manual, but I've also spent a bunch of time in cars with newer versions of DSG. In the newer versions, they've fixed all the little things that annoyed me about my old one.
> 
> At this point, I would happily buy a DSG car and not think twice about it. Yes, your foot isn't using a clutch pedal, and you can't modulate the speed / acceleration of the car by slipping the clutch or whatever, but there are other ways to do that, and in a lot of situations the DSG is just better than a traditional manual is. It's *much* faster, and in performance driving situations I found that it made me a better driver because it allowed me to concentrate more on other aspects of what I was doing. In addition to that, the DSG can shift in places that would upset the balance of the car if you tried it with a traditional manual.
> 
> ...


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## Wiley337 (May 1, 2002)

RyanA3 said:


> Wiley! I would not share a $50k car with my wife and baby. So maybe drop mag ride? Or get something else that you may not love so much? I'm sorry, I don't have kids. But there are moms and their minivans, all around me. It's insane what happens to vehicles.


I think both the wife and kid are going to have a lot of fun in it on many levels. I want to share.  I have a lot of mini-van friends, especially when they get to 2 kids, and also cart around their kid's friends to events (soccer, etc.). I do not begrudge the larger vehicles, they certainly have their purpose and utility. Yet for the here and now, I think a small, fast, quality, state-of-the-art sedan is going to be great for the family. Quality of quantity. I am happy to see the A3 available. 



RyanA3 said:


> P.s. Please don't complain too much, that the trunk is too small, and the back seat is too small - at the same as saying that you like small cars. There is an A4 and also plenty of SUVs and crossovers out there  we want small cars, as an option here in the US. In Europe, they put entire families in A3 and A2 and smaller.
> 
> Cheers


It is a tricky balance. We try to pack light, but well, stuff happens. As do passengers and subsequently their stuff. Europe does have great small cars, as well as the market pressures to foster them such as lots of small roads, small parking, dense urban areas, and large fuel prices. It would be great to have more of those smaller choices in the USA. The USA moves a lot of metal and empty space around the roads right now! Do not worry I am really a smaller car advocate. I know I can make A3 size work for the family. I think 98% of the time it will be fine. For the 2%, we can rent something, be amazed at the size, but then be reminded how much we appreciate the smaller car.


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## Wiley337 (May 1, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> At this point, I would happily buy a DSG car and not think twice about it. […]
> 
> I wouldn't have reservations about it if I were you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this, it is reassuring. I usually put a lot of focus into driving. Yet more and more I find myself in two modes: 1) Getting from a certain point A to B, wanting to focus on talking to wife and kid (usually this is in heavy traffic). And 2) It is _drive_ time. Usually 1 and 2 happen on the same session, and I think I will appreciate the flexibility of the DSG.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Wiley337 said:


> I think both the wife and kid are going to have a lot of fun in it on many levels. I want to share.  I have a lot of mini-van friends, especially when they get to 2 kids, and also cart around their kid's friends to events (soccer, etc.). I do not begrudge the larger vehicles, they certainly have their purpose and utility. Yet for the here and now, I think a small, fast, quality, state-of-the-art sedan is going to be great for the family. Quality of quantity. I am happy to see the A3 available.
> 
> 
> 
> It is a tricky balance. We try to pack light, but well, stuff happens. As do passengers and subsequently their stuff. Europe does have great small cars, as well as the market pressures to foster them such as lots of small roads, small parking, dense urban areas, and large fuel prices. It would be great to have more of those smaller choices in the USA. The USA moves a lot of metal and empty space around the roads right now! Do not worry I am really a smaller car advocate. I know I can make A3 size work for the family. I think 98% of the time it will be fine. For the 2%, we can rent something, be amazed at the size, but then be reminded how much we appreciate the smaller car.


GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!! :laugh:

Welcome! Glad you've joined us here. Buckle up for the rest of the long wait!


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!! :laugh:
> 
> Welcome! Glad you've joined us here. Buckle up for the rest of the long wait!


its been a long enough wait for the regular A3 . Dan you must be tearing your hair out waiting for the S3 :banghead:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> its been a long enough wait for the regular A3 . Dan you must be tearing your hair out waiting for the S3 :banghead:


I'm nearing the year mark. I like my increasing gray count more than the prospect of balding, so I'm trying to resist the urge. It's actually gotten easier since I got in line for the car earlier this month, if you can believe that.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> I'm nearing the year mark. I like my increasing gray count more than the prospect of balding, so I'm trying to resist the urge. It's actually gotten easier since I got in line for the car earlier this month, if you can believe that.


So you're on a list with your dealer?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I'm #2 on a list with a dealer, not my local dealer. I submitted my deposit on February 7 and, in return, received a signed agreement containing the details of the purchase- yes, even with near-firm mention of pricing. My local dealer doesn't know yet. They'll eventually figure it out. It's not like I have any allegiance to them, but I had been in close contact with someone there regarding the S3, and he had been made aware, on multiple occasions, of my desire to secure a first-available unit. Their loss. :laugh:

They're a smaller volume dealer than they are willing to admit (based on their A3 allocation as compared to the A3 allocation of the dealer I'm now supporting). I have zero doubt that #2 at the dealer I'm now working with will be a first-batch car. At my local dealer? Who knows. I doubt they'd have a waiting list of a dozen people were they willing to start and maintain a waiting list, but it wasn't a risk I was looking to take. 

Initial indications are that every single aspect of the experience will be favorable with my chosen dealer, except perhaps the need to travel to collect the car. That's a small compromise.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

All that and youre not disclosing who the dealer is? :laugh:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> All that and youre not disclosing who the dealer is? :laugh:


Jim Ellis Audi


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## analytics51 (Feb 22, 2014)

FractureCritical said:


> so... you walked away from what is basically a 300 HP hot-rod coupe that could spank an S4 (and is priced accordingly) and went with an A3 2.0 automatic, and you're comparing the cars directly. OK.
> 
> Are you in the US? did you see or sit in or drive an A3? I'm asking becuase I've not seen one yet, sat in one yet, or drive one yet, and would appreciate a better discourse of what makes the A3 better or worse than the BMW, and why if you were shopping for an automatic sedan you were looking at the M235 instead of a 328?
> 
> just curious.


Yep, I'm in San Diego USA. I've seen and driven both cars, although the A3 with a 1.8L, not the 2.0 I ordered. I currently drive a BMW 3-series and just got bored with it. The re-designed 2 series is very nice, but it's not only about the speed. The fit/finish in a BMW is okay, but no where near an Audi. I hate the plastic parts on a 3 series. Sit in an A3 and you'll notice the difference right away. Take a look at the spoiler that looks like an afterthought on the M235 and compare to the one that was sculpted on the A3. The electronics/Nav on the A3 are just totally superior to the BMW and much more intuitive. Both nice cars, but Audi has just passed BMW on many levels.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Jim Ellis Audi


Dang, youre going all the way to Atlanta. Now thats dedication.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> Dang, youre going all the way to Atlanta. Now thats dedication.


I once ordered a car from Columbia, SC. Atlanta's a relatively reasonable drive. I was going to try your guy in Dallas, but this one worked out very well. Dallas it a bit farther away, anyway.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Yeah but much better BBQ! Did your dealer hint on accepting the ACNA discount?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> Yeah but much better BBQ! Did your dealer hint on accepting the ACNA discount?


_Initial indications are that every single aspect of the experience will be favorable...
_


I'll be in Lockhart in April for some good Texas beef BBQ. I'm in the capital (IMO) of pork BBQ. I'm not suffering for good BBQ.


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## Wiley337 (May 1, 2002)

Dan Halen said:


> GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!! :laugh:
> 
> Welcome! Glad you've joined us here. Buckle up for the rest of the long wait!


Vortex is great. It helps keeps the excitement up during the long wait. I went through this with my GTI 337. Also I believe the moment you get the car, you know so much more. Happy to be here, and be in sync with some folks. 

Also, chiming in a bit to the original topic: I like to be near the bleeding edge, but not on it. In other words I am happy to be the next guy after the first couple test pilots. I like the fact that the vast majority of this car from a system perspective already exists in Euroland, and they are able to ensure things work together. This car is quite a complex machine. Has anyone counted the number of integrated circuits, electric motors, and black boxes that this thing has? Yeah, they are making some changes due to USA and such, but I am still ok with that.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Wiley337 said:


> Vortex is great. It helps keeps the excitement up during the long wait. I went through this with my GTI 337. Also I believe the moment you get the car, you know so much more. Happy to be here, and be in sync with some folks.
> 
> Also, chiming in a bit to the original topic: I like to be near the bleeding edge, but not on it. In other words I am happy to be the next guy after the first couple test pilots. I like the fact that the vast majority of this car from a system perspective already exists in Euroland, and they are able to ensure things work together. This car is quite a complex machine. Has anyone counted the number of integrated circuits, electric motors, and black boxes that this thing has? Yeah, they are making some changes due to USA and such, but I am still ok with that.


i hope the electronics are up to snuff; would suck if things fail early. I hope the release in Europe has allowed them to smoothen any rough spots out.


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## Midlife Crisis 2 (Aug 30, 2006)

Two weeks ago, I stopped by the Audi dealer in Montgomery to see what he could tell me about the A3's due to arrive in late March.

He indicated that a white one, a one black, and two gray ones ... monsoon gray, IIRC.

I wanted to see an actual color ... not a shade of gray. However, I know I'll still drive 2 hours to see them when they arrive.

Wavering a little based on price ... I just don't have an alternative at this time.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> _Initial indications are that every single aspect of the experience will be favorable...
> _


_May the odds be forever in your favor...._

:sly:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Midlife Crisis 2 said:


> Two weeks ago, I stopped by the Audi dealer in Montgomery to see what he could tell me about the A3's due to arrive in late March.
> 
> He indicated that a white one, a one black, and two gray ones ... monsoon gray, IIRC.
> 
> ...


... what about Dean McCrary?


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## Zorro83 (Sep 10, 2011)

Does anyone know if the S3 will come to NA with the orange reflectors like this:

Hopefully not!


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## Professor Gascan (Sep 11, 2002)

Zorro83 said:


> Does anyone know if the S3 will come to NA with the orange reflectors like this:
> 
> Hopefully not!


Yes, it will. They're a requirement for North American cars.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

It will. That's a US-spec headlamp unit. I'm just considering us fortunate that they didn't tack them onto the bumper.

The wheels... Europe will be keeping those ghastly things, fortunately.

Overall, that's just one hell of a Frankenstein car- European grille, US headlamps, European wheel, grey headliner and rear view mirror...


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## T1no (Sep 22, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> It will. That's a US-spec headlamp unit. I'm just considering us fortunate that they didn't tack them onto the bumper.
> 
> The wheels... Europe will be keeping those ghastly things, fortunately.


bahh thats even harder to replace.
cause you guys been replacing a side markers LOL


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## lilmira (Feb 4, 2014)

Zorro83 said:


> Does anyone know if the S3 will come to NA with the orange reflectors like this:
> 
> Hopefully not!


I don't like that neither. I'd rather have them on the side of the bumper. And please give me the grille without the front plate bar thingy behind it.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

T1no said:


> bahh thats even harder to replace.
> cause you guys been replacing a side markers LOL


Ruining the bumper requires replacement of the entire bumper cover, IMO. "Smoked" replacement lenses aren't bad, but clear lenses look too aftermarket, and painted lenses look too half-assed.

I actually sort of like the implementation in the US headlamps. To me, the European units look like they're missing something.


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## Zorro83 (Sep 10, 2011)

I don't know, in all the pics they only showed the clear markers...I knew that they were going to do something for NA but I was hoping for something a bit more subtle. It really cheapens the front end.


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## lilmira (Feb 4, 2014)

Yep, exactly my thought. My gti has the reflectors on the bumper. You don't see them in front of the car and it cleans up the headlights.

Since the A4/A5s have the yellow thing inside the headlights too, so the chance is pretty slim that we won't get them.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Zorro83 said:


> I don't know, in all the pics they only showed the clear markers...I knew that they were going to do something for NA but I was hoping for something a bit more subtle. It really cheapens the front end.


There's a somewhat important distinction to be drawn here.

What we've seen in most other photos isn't a "clear" version of what we're getting. There is no marker in the side of the European-spec units. It's just the silver background of the headlamp housing seen through the lens. The US units have an additional bulb or LED behind an amber reflector, so... even if you were to remove the reflector, you'd still be left to deal with the implementation of the bulb or LED if it wasn't added in a manner that would maintain a decent appearance without the amber lens over it.

As such, I expected all along that we'd get what we see in the above photo. Based on Audi's recent trend on their other US-market cars (namely the PI A4 and A5 lines), I would have been very surprised to see a bumper cut for this safety requirement.


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

lilmira said:


> Since the A4/A5s have the yellow thing inside the headlights too, so the chance is pretty slim that we won't get them.


They're doing this across model lines and brands now. The MKVII Golf, for example, will have the US sidemarkers moved into the headlights like this. In my mind that's good news, because you'll be able to swap in a set of Euro lights and be rid of them altogether instead of having to do something about the holes in the bumper skin.

-Tim


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## Zorro83 (Sep 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> They're doing this across model lines and brands now. The MKVII Golf, for example, will have the US sidemarkers moved into the headlights like this. In my mind that's good news, because you'll be able to swap in a set of Euro lights and be rid of them altogether instead of having to do something about the holes in the bumper skin.
> 
> -Tim


Or we can just do without that stupid regulation


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## lilmira (Feb 4, 2014)

I'll just live with it. Can't see myself paying that much just for appearance, a set of headlights is like what a thousand bucks? I don't even get to see them while driving. I'd rather put the money into any performance mod or blacked out grille, yeah that adds horsepower I'm sure.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Is the orange marker in the headlight assembly ideal? No! Is it better looking than the bumper side markers? Yes!

I don't like the orange markers either but this is a much cleaner looking solution than having them on the bumpers. At the same time, if you absolutely cannot stand the orange in the front of your car this also makes it rather expensive to get rid of it. While the bumper side markers can be color matched and look pretty good imo. There are already all sorts of cutouts in the bumper for tow hooks, parking sensors etc., so what's two more?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

GTI2Slow said:


> I finally got to sit in a S3. Beautiful car in person. I dont have much to add to what others have previously said
> 
> In the drivers seat things are sparse but it feels open, do yourself a favor and sit in the passenger seat though, its a underwhelming sea of empty black dash. The back seats have better room than my friends CLA, I don't know if this is reflected in specs but it was more open feeling. The materials seemed pretty standard, nice soft touch materials. The area around the screen seemed like it could of been tidy up, I guess there are or will be options for different screens as there wasn't a clean slot there.
> 
> ...


Hmm... I wonder...

In the MkV, there's a way to adjust the fuel economy adaptation in an effort to get the on-board computer to report more a more accurate running MPG figure. While completely unrelated to the boost gauge, I sort of wonder if there will be an adaptation channel where one can set the range for the boost gauge. Would be a pretty neat find...


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