# Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

I've been following the debate about whether the VR6 and 2.0 MAF (*M*ass *A*ir *F*low) sensors are the same and thus interchangeable for a while now. Before I begin, let me say that I realize that VW and Bosch part #s for the sensors are different and that the MAF housings are different sizes. This thread is about whether or not the actual sensors inside the housings are the same. I had two threads about this going a while back, but no one responded with the info I needed.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=740006 and
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=735944 
You can check these out for some background info.

While reading through some of the earlier threads on the VR6/2.0 MAF debate, I came across a post by someone (SSheikh, I believe) that claimed that the actual sensors inside the housing had the same Bosch part numbers. Unfortunately, the part number was not given, so we had to take his word for it. Not that I didn't trust a fellow Vortexer, but I wanted to see for myself that the two numbers were the same. So here's what I did.
I removed the MAF sensor from the housing in my 1999.5 Jetta VR6 to get the part numbers. This yielded:
On the ouside of the MAF housing tube:
VW #: 071 906 461B
Bosch #: 0 280 218 017
On the MAF sensor itself:
Bosch #: 00C 2G2 032
Serial #: 868 303 A

I then removed the MAF sensor from the housing in my friends 2000 Golf GL 2.0. This yielded:
On the ouside of the MAF housing tube:
VW #: 06A 906 461A
Bosch #: 0 280 218 002
On the MAF sensor itself:
Bosch #: 00C 2G2 032
Serial #: 971 151 A
Note that the Bosch part #'s of the actual sensors for the VR6 and 2.0 are exactly the same! Therefore, it appears that identical sensors are used and that differences in air flow due to differences in housing diameter must be accounted for by the ECU after the fact.
To double check the MAF sensor part # (and to replace the VR6 MAF sensor that just went on my car), I ordered a 2.0 MAF from a dealership. It just showed up, so the first thing I did was take it apart to look at the numbers. I found:
On the ouside of the MAF housing tube:
VW #: 06A 906 461A
Bosch #: 0 280 218 002
On the MAF sensor itself:
Bosch #: 00C 2G2 032
Serial #: 292 18 2 5
It appears that VW is charging two drastically different prices for the same MAF sensor packaged in different diameter housings. Why they're doing it, I have no idea (maybe something to do with the 2.0 emission recall?).
So, if your VR6 MAF goes bad, don't spend the $200-$300 that VW wants for a VR6 MAF. Buy a 2.0 MAF for less than $50, remove the sensor from the housing and put it in the VR6 housing. FYI, you'll need a VALID VIN# from a car with a 2.0L engine to purchase a 2.0 MAF from a dealer.

*EDIT: Since this original post, it has been discovered that the VIN needed to purchase the cheap 2.0 MAF needs to be from either a 1999 or 2000 2.0 vehicle with an AEG engine. These are the only 2.0 vehicles that use the cheap MAF. These vehicles can be identified by the 10th digit of the VIN - it should be either an "X" (1999) or "Y" (2000).* 

* EDIT: On 8/4/03, I realized that the 24v VR6 MAF has the same housing VW part# - 071-906-461B - and the same sensor Bosch part# - F 00C 2G2 032 - as the 12v VR6 MAF. This means that 24v owners can also purchase a cheap 2.0 MAF for use in their cars. * 

_FYI, there is a similar post in the Golf IV/Jetta IV forum for those interested_ - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=773669



_Modified by VgRt6 at 7:04 AM 5-17-2004_


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## FuriousGeorge!! (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

did you test the 2.0 sensor in your car? how's it run? everything okey-dokie?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (FuriousGeorge!!)*

It literally just came an hour ago. I'm going to replace it and the pre-cat oxygen sensor as soon as I can. I'll update the thread when I do.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

NICE WORK !!
Jeffrey Atwood


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## VW KEVIN G (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Jefnes3)*

Does anyone know if this applies to any older VR6 MAFs too?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VW KEVIN G)*

I think at some point VW switched from a hot-wire MAF to a hot-film MAF. I'm not sure when they did this, but my guess is that the newer hot-film sensors cannot be used in cars which use the older hot-wire sensors.
Supposedly, VW is, or has, switched to a new digital hot-film MAF. I read something about this in one of the archived MAF threads. I'm not sure what cars have or will have these new sensors, but I'm sure none of the older (both hot-film and hot-wire) MAFs will work on them.


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## T99inFL (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Got any pix of the sensors and housings to illustrate the differences?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (T99inFL)*

Sorry. I don't have a digital camera. I don't know what the pictures would show though. The point is that the sensors are identical - just the housing diameter is different. The intake diameter on the VR6 is larger than the 2.0, therefore the housing for the VR6 MAF sensor is larger than the MAF housing for the 2.0. If you remove the two screws that attach the MAF sensor to the housing, take out the sensors and lay them side by side, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. The part #'s are exactly the same. The only thing differentiating them is a serial #.
Regardless, I will try and borrow a digital camera if I can and post some pictures to illustrate the above.


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## rocket vr6 (May 6, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Try it and let us know how it works. Pics don't mean anything if it works.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Check out a similar thread going in the Golf IV & Jetta IV forum for more info. I just answered some good questions about this over there.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=773669


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Good News!!!






















I just replaced my VR6 MAF sensor with the new 2.0 sensor. Everything seems normal. The idle is rock solid smooth at 650RPM. The engine pulls hard and fast all the way to redline. Feels like a VR6 (stock) should when floored. Based on this preliminary test, it looks like the 2.0 MAF sensor IS a direct (and significantly cheaper) replacement for the VR6 MAF sensor!
I didn't replace the O2 sensor yet, so I still have a CEL. Therefore, I can't determine if the 2.0 MAF throws a CEL or not. I'm going to try and replace the 02 sensor on Wednesday (it's supposed to rain/snow here again tomorrow) and will turn off the CEL when that's done. I'll update the post with whether or not the CEL comes back on due to the MAF. I'm going on a 600 mile trip this weekend, so I'll also post the MPG with the new MAF.


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## GTIKevin (Jul 9, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

What were your symptoms like of a dying MAF sensor. I am losing power mostly at WOT. How do you get the torx bolts off of the sensor. I cant find an adaptor like that.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (GTIKevin)*

I really didn't have any of the typical symptoms (power loss, poor fuel economy), just a CEL very recently. The CEL was for code P1128 - long term fuel trim mult., Bank 1 system too lean. Others have hade this code and said that replacing the MAF got rid of it. I started researching the whole MAF swap thing a while ago because I got a CEL and found 2 codes - one for the intake air temp sensor and one for an O2 sensor. The intake air temp sensor is part of the MAF (the little red resistor on the side). Even though the actual airflow part of the MAF still worked, I knew I was going to have to replace it to fix the intake air temp sensor. I wasn't excited about having to replace the sensor when the part that makes it so expensive still worked (I don't feel as bad anymore since the most recent code suggests that it's finally on it's way out). I had read about the possibility of using the 2.0 MAF as a cheaper alternative, but couldn't find any concrete proof that they were the same so I decided to find it myself.
Sorry I can't help with the symptoms. I would check some of the other MAF threads. I'm pretty sure there are drivability symptoms of a bad/going bad MAF listed in some of them.
Do you have the 5-point (TorxPlus) or 6-point (Security Torx) screws? If you have an early Mk. IV (like me) you probably have the 6-point screw. You can get the bit for this at Sears (see http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=724841). If you have a later model Mk. IV, you probably have the 5-point screw. The drivers for these are only available to dealers and maybe repair shops. You can get these screws out by using a pair of pliers. Needle-nose ViseGrips work best. Others have used a Dremel to grind a groove in the head of the screw so that a regular screwdriver can be used. Either way works, but the first is less messy and permanent.
Good Luck!


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## Clownracer v2 (Sep 2, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

also remember it takes 3 cold-hot-cold cycles to trip a maf im just trying to help


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Clownracer v2)*

Yeah. I know that. Do you know for sure it's 3 though? I have no idea how many. I've read anywhere from 3 to 40 and would love to know what the 'real' number of cycles is.
I'm not expecting it to go out since the old O2 sensor is still in there and may retrip the CEL before it has a chance to reset. Who knows though. I'll just disconnect the battery after I replace the sensor just to make sure.


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## selnashar (Jan 28, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

i'm almost sure it's three drive cycles. tested it on more than one occasion. keep us updated on the results. also does anybody know if the bosch part number is the same for all obdII's or is it a different part for the the mkIII and mkIV? thanks


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

In response to spikes20's post in the MKIV version of the thread:
You're right. I agree totally that testing should be done over a decently long period of time. I'll sign up as the first guinea pig. Regardless, I'm pretty confident that a long term test will show the VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors to be identical and interchangeable.
I wonder if VW is taking a big hit on the 2.0 MAFs because of the recent 2.0 O2 sensor recall. The huge price difference doesn't make any sense, especially if the sensors are in fact the same. I'm inclined to believe that the lower price of the 2.0 MAF is a 'special deal' and that the higer prices of the VR6/1.8T/TDI MAFs are normal, rather than the lower price being normal and VW raping VR6/1.8T/TDI owners. If that's true, I figure the 'special deal' has to end at some point. It's almost worth buying another 2.0 MAF while it's still cheap just in case the new one goes bad. Heck, it's only $35 now. Even though there's still the possibility that the sensors are not interchangeable, that's not much of a $$$ gamble. And if it turns out that their not interchangeable, I could always sell the extra to a 2.0 owner for half of the 'normal' high price, save them a bundle and actually make myself a small profit for the hassle.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (selnashar)*

No idea about the MKIII/MkIV numbers being the same/different. It would be great if both a MKIII VR6 and 2.0 owner would take their MAFs apart for the cause.


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## selnashar (Jan 28, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

i have no idea what a mkIII maf looks like. does it pretty much look like a mkIV one? can you remove just the sensor or is it all one piece?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (selnashar)*

I'm not sure, but it's probably similar to the MKIV ones, i.e., a removable sensor mounted in a housing. A MKIII owner's input on this would be great.


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## 96jetvr6 (Dec 13, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

its a 3inch housing i think, with two secutiry screws, it has a four prong harness,
my bro has a 2.0 is should check out the #s on them, 
i talked to a local shop they said VW lowered the price as opposed to recalling the sensors, because so many of them were bad, they didnt recall they jsut made them very cheap.


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## robby1544 (Apr 20, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]FYI, you'll need a VALID VIN# from a car with a 2.0L engine to purchase a 2.0 MAF from a dealer.
[Modified by VgRt6, 10:41 AM 3-29-2003][HR][/HR]​why do we need a valid vin from an MKIV to purchase parts for them? so we can take advantage of this deal?


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (robby1544)*

Because it is a hot item, and VW has detected people ordering 2.0L MAFs to be used in other engines. They have a special name for this kind of items, I dont remember what is it.


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## houstonspeedfreek (Sep 24, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

2.0L MAFs work in 1.8Ts, I wouldn't see why it would be any different in a VR6, save the housing. You can also get the MAFs from http://www.vwparts.com if you don't want to deal with the stealership.


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## giorgos (Dec 17, 1999)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (houstonspeedfreek)*

has anyone with vag logged on to block 2 or 4 to see the readings?using the 4 cyl maf... also bolck 32 i think shows the idle and load % of the lean/rich condition in respect to both o2..if both filelds stay within +/- 5% then the maf is good....that is when using the vr6 one....i wonder what the valus are using the 4 cyl maf?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (96jetvr6)*

96jetVR6 - are you refering to a MKIII VR6 MAF? If so, the MKIIIs and MKIVs are different. The MKIV has a 5-prong connector.


[Modified by VgRt6, 10:06 AM 4-1-2003]


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (houstonspeedfreek)*

Have you tried this? I've read that it works in some versions of the 1.8T and not in others. Not sure which ones work/don't work though.
I guess we could use MAF sensor part numbers for each 1.8T engine code (AWD and AWW. Anthony.L posted in the MKIV version of this thread before it got locked "I just took apart my 2002 AWP 1.8t MAF and the Bosch part number is F00C 2G2 049." Looks like the AWP uses a different sensor).


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (giorgos)*

I'd do it if I had a VAG-COM. Any takers would be greatly appreciated.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Took apart my mother-in-laws TDI MAF today. The MAF sensor part number is:
F 00C 2G2 027
which is different from the VR6/2.0 and the 1.8T.

It looks similar to the VR6/2.0 sensors except for three physical differences:
1) Does not have the two bleedholes inthe S-duct that the VR6/2.0 sensor has
2) Does not have a small depression on the trailing edge of the sensor (doesn't look important).
3) Does not have the intake air temp sensor resistor on the side (although it has the leads to attach one).


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## selnashar (Jan 28, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

i called the dealer today to check the price on a mkIII 2.0 maf for my friend. got quoted $410!!!! why the difference in price between the maf's on the mkIII's and mkIV's?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (selnashar)*

Maybe it's due to lower demand since the MKIII MAFs don't fail nearly as frequqntly as the MKIVs.


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## 96jetvr6 (Dec 13, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

i am talking about the mk3


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (96jetvr6)*

I was going to do the exact same experiment and got the 6 point security
bits and tested it on the wife's 2.0 MK IV and ordered a new 2.0 MAF. When
that came in, it had the 5 point bits and I cannot find them anywhere.
I am sure these can be got somewhere ... any ideas?
BTW, great stuff ... I knew VW was playing economy games- since a VR is more
$$ so charge more for its spare parts.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (pal)*

The 5-point bits are only available to dealers and shops. I got the screws out with a ViseGrip.


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## Anthony.L (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Here is the data I've compiled so far. I had one other MAF, 461D (1.8t). 

Golf/Jetta 2.0 1999-2003 (AEG/ALL)
List $ 95.00
VW #: 06A 906 461A
Bosch #: 00C 2G2 032

Golf/Jetta VR6 2000-2003 (ALL)
List $ 346.00
VW #: 071 906 461B
Bosch #: 00C 2G2 032

Golf/Jetta 1.8t 2000-2001 (AWD)
List $ 215.00
VW #: 06A 906 461D
Bosch #: 00C 2G2 040

Golf/Jetta 1.8t 2002 (AWP)
List $ 363.00
VW #: 06A 906 461L
Bosch #: 00C 2G2 049


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Anthony.L)*

Nice.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

That means we can just use 2.0L MAFs, and it is the 1.8T people that should worry. NICE!


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

Very nice ... and I am pleased to say that the vise grip worked out beautifully
to get that sensor off (5 point security Torx). I replaced that with the 6 point 
security from the old MAF and now I am ready for my MAF to fail


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

Just to let everyone know, I replaced my VR6 MAF sensor with the 2.0 sensor and drove 250 miles from DC to Northern NJ. The results of the swap were great. No CELS. The engine was smooth and powerful, just like it should be. I averaged 28MPG, which is pretty good considering I did 75-80 the whole way.








I'm going to drive another 300-400 miles in the next few days. I'll keep everyone posted on what (and hopefully what doesn't) happen.


[Modified by VgRt6, 12:02 PM 4-3-2003]


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Just to let everyone know, I replaced my VR6 MAF sensor with the 2.0 sensor and drove 250 miles from DC to Northern NJ. The results of the swap were great. No CELS. The engine was smooth and powerful, just like it should be. I averaged 28MPG, which is pretty good considering I did 75-80 the whole way.








I'm going to drive another 300-400 miles in the nexy few days. I'll keep everyone posted on what (and hopefully what doesn't) happen.[HR][/HR]​Awesome!
Keep us updated here as to what happens over time with the 2.0 sensor ... this 
just may have helped us all with a lot of $$ saved over time that can go to other
mods







.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (pal)*

"... this just may have helped us all with a lot of $$ saved over time that can go to other mods







."
That was the plan. It feels great to turn the tables and rip VW off for a change. They've sure done it to us enough times! Too bad this didn't get squared away sooner. I can't imagine how much $$$ VR6 owners have spent on MAFs up til now.


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## Anthony.L (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]"... this just may have helped us all with a lot of $$ saved over time that can go to other mods








."
That was the plan. It feels great to turn the tables and rip VW off for a change. They've sure done it to us enough times! Too bad this didn't get squared away sooner. I can't imagine how much $$$ VR6 owners have spent on MAFs up til now.[HR][/HR]​That and the fact you VR6 guys got it better then us 1.8t guys. We are still stuck paying from $180-300 depending on what year. Mine happens to be the $300...


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## Anthony.L (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

One other note, if I was you guys I would buy a spare 461A MAF before the 2.0 recall is over and the price on it goes back to $300!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Anthony.L)*

I was already planning on doing that!
It really doesn't make sense why VW would need to use a different sensor for the 1.8T than for the VR6/2.0. There is the difference with the air intake sensor. It's integrated with the MAF in the VR6/2.0 and separate in the 1.8T (my guess is that it needs to be after the turbo/intercooler to accurately determine the temp). This lack of the intake air temp sensor on the MAF is probably what accounts for the difference in part numbers (between the VR6/2.0 MAFs and the ones used in the 2000 and 2001 1.8Ts). My guess is that the 2.0 MAF will work in these 1.8Ts. I think some people have posted that this is true. The MAF for the AWP has a clearly different shape. I guess those with AWP engines are out of luck. Too bad. Maybe someone can investigate whether or not the 2.0 MAF can be modified to work for the AWP. The TDIClub guys have had some success with this for TDIs, but there wasn't a much of a difference in the physical appearance of the sensor as there is between the 2.0 and AWP sensors.


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## Anthony.L (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Can some one take a picture of a VR6 or 2.0 MAF sensor? The pic I posted above is a AWD and AWP 1.8t sensor.
As you noticed the AWP is completely different shape on both sides. Though I'm running the AWD sensor in the pic on my car right now...


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Anthony.L)*

I'll take one tonight.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Anthony.L)*

Here is the sensor from my VR6. Sorry if the pics are a little dark.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

*MAF UPDATE:*
I just returened from my long trip, so I thought I'd update you all on the VR6/2.0 MAF swap. We couldn't ask for better results. 557 miles and still no CEL. The engine runs perfect. I averaged 27.63 MPG (calculated) for the trip, which was 95% highway at 75-80MPH and 5% city.

I think the swap is definitely legit. I can already hear the 2.0 MAFs flying off the shelves. Get yours while you can.
_FYI, I'll post periodic long term updates every 500-1000 miles or so._


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

I've compiled a list of dealerships which sell the 2.0 MAF for extremely cheap prices. So it wouldn't get lost at the bottom of this thread, I put it in its own thread. You can find the list at http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=787970. Enjoy!


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## selnashar (Jan 28, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

thanks for taking the time to test the different MAF's. i'm sure many of us will benefit from your effort.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (selnashar)*

Anytime!
I hope everyone can get one at the cheap prices without too much hassle. BTW, I've now purchased two 2.0 MAFs. The first is in the car and as mentioned above, is working great. I ordered a second today as a spare and hopefully will have it by the end of the week.
Let me know if I can do anything else.


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## kamil (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

these are the type of threads that we need !!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

*MAF UPDATE:*
1000 miles with the 2.0 MAF sensor and no CEL!!!


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## O_loung1 (Feb 13, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

nice info! if you have access to vag-com, id still would like to see what you pull, sometimes you can pull some residual codes in there and not have CEL (eg. rich codes). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (O_loung1)*

I don't have a VAG-COM and don't plan on buying one for at least 6 months. If there is anyone in my area who has one and would be willing to scan the car for a good cause, let me know.


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## Mr. Joe (Mar 9, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

You guys think i could use an OBD1 2.0 MAF in my OBD1 VR6? i think thats the next question!


----------



## shauv (Jan 24, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

YOU ARE THE WALLET SAVER. thanks alot i did the swap this weekend and without using a diagnostic mach. it cleared the CEL automaticly my ESP, EPC. Both cleared by themselves also this is a gold mind this was my third time that it went out but i have a stock of 3 now just in case. For the tool that was needed the tamper proof 6 star torque bit. i could not find one that fit it is too big for a T-20 and too small for a T-25 i cut the bolts so i could use a flat head on the bolts if anyone has any idea where i can get the right size bit that would help. i don't want to go to snap on and pay 1,000,000 bucks either. but thanks alot for the GGGRRRREEEAAATTT info. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (shauv)*

Are you sure you have 6-point screws? The MAFs in recent year VWs use 5-point screws. I think they switched sometime around 2000/2001. Maybe this is your problem. My MAF (99.5) had 6-point screws which came out easily using a T20 Security Torx bit.
Glad to hear that you saved some $$$. Did you really buy 3 spares? I only bought one spare and I thought I was paranoid.


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## scollins (Nov 1, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Nice work. You'd make Sherlock Holmes proud.


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## hiegear (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (scollins)*

I talked to a parts manager today. I didn't know him so he might have been pulling my leg, but he said that the MAF from a 2.0 and VR6 are the same, BUT they are calibrated different. That is why the Bosch numbers are the same but the VW#'s are different. What will happen is that your car will run way lean and will eventually kill your cat possible ruin a cylinder. If there is any part guy or some one that has hard proof please write in. I understand that he ran his car for so many miles. but the parts guys said it takes about 2 months and then done. I would hold off on a rush just yet. thats my two cents, I hope to god some one proves me wrong. 205 is a big price to pay.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (hiegear)*

Or the VW part #'s could be different because the housings are different diameters. Say the MAF sensor is PART A, the VR6 housing is PART B and the 2.0 housing is PART C. If you were going to assemble PART A and PART B into one unit and PART A and PART C into another unit, wouldn't you give them two different part numbers (what VW did). Yes it's probably true that the VR6 and 2.0 MAFs use different calibrations. I'd be surprised if they didn't. But the difference is more easily accounted for by the ECU after a baseline measurement is made. It makes more sense from an economic standpoint to use one sensor and adjust the calibration with a few lines of code in the ECU than to use two completely different sensors.
I sent you a long reply by IM. I'm going to post it here for the benefit of everyone else. Hope you don't mind.
*From hiegear:* 
i just talked to the parts guy today, afteri took your advise and went to buy a 2.0, he said it will work for a while but it will load up your CAT. so you save 150 bucks now, but you'll have to spend 1000 later. I know no cat = more power but i want to keep it kinda stock.
just wanted to know if there is a difference on how they are calibrated.

*From VgRt6:* 
My guess is he is just saying that to get you to reconsider buying the cheaper part. I don't know for sure that they aren't calibrated differently, but the part numbers are exactly the same. If they were calibrated differently, how would Bosch or VW be able to tell them apart. I can't imagine that they would take the chance of getting the parts mixed up and not being able to tell which is for which calibration without hooking each one up individually and doing some kind of electrical test. That would be really stupid. My guess is that if they were calibrated differently, they would have put different part numbers on them so the people who assemble the MAF (probably not the brightest of Bosch's employees) could easily tell them apart. Also, with all the CPU power in todays cars, it's much easier to make one type of sensor and change a few lines of code in the ECU program to account for the difference in housing diameters. It's much cheaper to do it that way than to manufacture two sensors with slightly different calibrations.
The only way I could see the wrong MAF ruining a cat is if it made the engine run rich all the time. That would do it, but I see no evidence of that occurring in my car (with the 2.0 MAF). My gas mileage is high at 28MPG on the highway aver. between 70 and 80MPH. Also, there is no strong sulfur smell coming from my exhaust.
Go ahead and use the 2.0 MAF sensor without worying about it. That guy is just making up stories to try to sell you a more expensive part up front. Sure he would love to sell you a $1000 cat down the road, but he knows that you using the 2.0 MAF won't kill yours.


[Modified by VgRt6, 6:16 PM 4-15-2003]


----------



## hiegear (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

It all makes sense to me. Thanks for the clear up VgRt6. I'm going to use the 2.0 and still do some research. I have a vag-com so I can post some numbers when I get the chance. Thanks again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (hiegear)*

That would be great if you could post some VAG-COM #'s sometime. I think those numbers will prove the swap to be legit once and for all. I would have already done this if I had a VAG-COM. Man I wish I had one!


----------



## Rippinralf (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

the reason for the price difference has nothing to do with the part at all, but everything to do with how their warranty repairs are charged, the more 2.0MAFs that go bad the more they decrease their prices so they dealers bill VW for a cheaper part. Dealers bill vwoa for the cost of the part so when the part is listed by vwoa cheaper then there is less markup and such. its a bit complicated here and i bet if you look back at old 2.0 maf prices you'll see that 2.0mafs were not always 50$







MKIII 2.0MAFs are about 500cdn whats the diff? less MKIII mafs go bad and are not under warranty anymore so the consumers actually pay not the dealers under warranty agreements.
hope this was helpful 
PS: i dont werk at the dealer i just know


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Rippinralf)*

You're right. 2.0 MAFs used to be just as expensive as all the others until the 2.0 O2 sensor recall occurred. Prices dropped like a rock - about 80-90% off.


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## GTIVR6PL (Nov 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

i called 3 different dealerships in my area and asked if the sensors were interchangable, the answers i got were ::no, then ::i wouldent do it, and ::i dont recomend trying it. For the 1st 2 dealerships i called and said that i have a vr6 and was wondering if i can put in a 2.0 maf sensor in my vr, then the 3rd one i decided to say that i have a 2.0 and i want a vr6 sensor in my 2.0 so that way im spending more money so maybe they would have a different answer, i told him about the part numbers and everything but he still said that he doesent recomend it because itll *probably* mess around with the cars ecu..., then he said its just not the same thing but he never tried it or heard about it he just said that he guesses it wouldent work. not exactly the technical answer i was looking for but what are you gonna do. im not saying it wont work im just sharing the info that i got, lol


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (GTIVR6PL)*

Please don't take this personally, but do you always trust everything that dealers tell you? Also, are you sure that they understood that it's only the sensor that is swapped, not the whole unit? Third, why bring this up to the dealers? This thread was supposed to be for us owners - to get something for less than VW wants to charge us. This only helps us out if VW doesn't catch wind of it and start asking for more proof about 2.0 ownership.
You don't have to believe me, in fact no one has to. I did it in my car and it's been great. The engine is as smooth, has as much power and gets the same mileage as the day I bought it - and it's got 132,167 miles on it!!! I posted this info, and others helped out also, for the benefit of all of us. If you choose not to believe you, then it's your loss.
FYI, I'm hopefully meeting up with DB-SBK tomorrow to run VAG-COM on my car with the 2.0 MAF sensor in it. Hopefully this will put this debate to rest finally and convince the doubters out there that the swap is legit.


----------



## GTIVR6PL (Nov 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

i dont always trust what the dealers tell me, i didnt say i did, ( i talked to the parts dept. guys)i just gave it a shot because i figured not all of them are bad people. Next im sure they understood that its only the sensor that is being swapped. And last i guess your right about bringing it to the dealers, didnt think of this at the time but dealers do know about the vortex and they do come on here and read the posts and see whats goin on(not nessasarely this thread but they do comeon). Also i didnt say that i dont believe you i just did that because i guess i had too much time on my hands and i figured i would see what some techs had to say about this because it got my interest. Didnt mean to mess anything up.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (GTIVR6PL)*

No big deal. It actually is interesting to think what VW techs (although I would call parts guys techs) have to say about this. I don't think you screwed anything up by asking. The parts guy in the dealership near me takes 15 minutes just to look up one part. I doubt he's bright enough to figure out what I was up to if I asked him the about the swap. I do realize some VW people come on here - there's nothing we can do about that and we shouldn't not start threads like this because of it.
Sorry if I lashed out a bit, I didn't mean anything by it. I just found out that I didn't get a post-doctoral fellowship position that I applied for (damn slow economy!!!) and am in a bad mood as a result. I apologize for my rant. Thanks for your interest in this thread and for your effort in trying to add to it.








Since you brought it up, I wonder if any VW parts guys or techs especially have actually taken the sensors out of the housing to see if they are in fact the same and/or interchangeable. Unless they were specifically looking for the same info as in this thread, I would guess "no". I don't see any other reason for them to do it. Their manuals most likely tell them to replace the entire assembly and that's what they do.
I'll post the VAG-COM results tomorrow if JB-SBK and I run the tests.


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## GTIVR6PL (Nov 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Its all good man. lol







Even if the parts guys did try it, I doubt they would share the results unless they were negative, maybe not even then, well at least the ones ive talked to on all my visits to the dealerships, they dont seem or try to be to helpful.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (GTIVR6PL)*

You're right. What parts guy in his right mind is going to tell you that you only need to buy a $50 part when he can sell you a $300 part? It would be like walking into the dealership and saying "I heard that the dealership in town x is selling the 337 for $2,000 less than you. Is that true? Oh yea, can you give me directions to get there?" Dealerships are usually full of morons, but even the morons are not that dumb!


[Modified by VgRt6, 6:00 PM 4-22-2003]


----------



## GTIVR6PL (Nov 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Exactly, well said!


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## hiegear (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (GTIVR6PL)*

still waiting on my MAF from the stealership. I will post the vag-com when that happenes. Its been a week now so I don't know what the hold up is. If some one can tell me what i need to look for on the vag-com that would be great. I heard that I need to watch the limbo something i don't even know. Let me know
c-ya


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (hiegear)*

I would also like to know what VAG-COM tests to perform. I met up with DJ-SBK yesterday and we scanned my car. We found a bunch of codes from before I did the MAF switch which I thought I had cleared out by disconnecting the battery. Turns out that they weren't so I can't be sure which ones were logged after the switch was done. We decided to start from scratch so we cleared out all the codes and will scan the car again after I drive for a few days/a week. I'll post any codes that show up on the next scan.
Also, can the VAG-COM experts who have been following this thread please tell me/us what tests to do with the VAG in order to test the operation of the 2.0 MAF. What blocks should we test, what values are we interested in and what should these values be if the MAF is working properly?
Thanks. As soon as the suggested tests are posted, I'll give DJ-SBK a call and arrange another scan.
BTW, many







s and http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gifs to DJ-SBK for his time, effort and use of his VAG for testing out the 2.0 MAF!!!


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## big bentley (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Any news yet?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (big bentley)*

I'm still waiting for someone to post the appropriate tests to perform and/or blocks to measure with the VAG-COM. I have no VAG experience and could use someone's help with figuring out what parameters to investigate. Also, I'm reluctant to post any codes that I found during the first scan. It turns out that many of the codes were not erased when I disconnected the battery, so it is not know whether the ones logged were from before or after the MAF sensor swap. These old codes have been properly cleared with a VAG. Whatever codes are in memory during the next scan will be valid and I will post these.
Please post the VAG tests/parameters if you know then so the VAG test can be finally done.


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## akbens (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Hello everyone
I have received the security torx set from sears online and I will perform the swap hopefully this weekend. For all that compatibility questions I think if the part numbers are the same then the parts should be the same. Every part has a different number and there is no reason to give the same part number to two different parts. I dont have a VAG com so I will disconnect the battery terminal. I am positive that this swap will work!!


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## akbens (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (akbens)*

Ok guys I took out the old maf from my VR and placed the 2.0 maf in its housing. The vise grips helped a lot







I took it for a test drive and the car runs perfect!! I have disconnected the battery terminal to reset the CEL and it has not came back on but I am keeping my fingers crossed







By the way the new maf is not made by Bosch. The old one is a Bosch(just like the ones in the pictures here and it was made in 1998) the new one is made in 2001 and it has no brand on it. I am assuming it is made by someone else since these things failed a lot and Bosch probably couldn't keep up with the demand so they outsourced it. The good news is the part number on the no name maf is exactly the same as the Bosch!! I am pretty sure that it is the same part and VW is just making a killing on VR6 maf(or losing a lot on the 2.0 maf







) Basically the maf housing is the only different part and since it comes with the housing you wouldn't realize this unless you take the actual sensor out. Thanks a lot vgrt6







I paid 45 bucks and replaced the maf that would have cost me around 400 bucks....I am going to buy a spare one in case this one breaks again. I will let you know with the updates. Thanks again to all, it is this kind of information that should be on this forum!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (akbens)*

Congrats on making a successful swap.








I realized the same thing about the lack of the Bosch when I opened up the new 2.0 MAF. I posted the following in the Golf IV & Jetta IV version of this thread before it was locked.
_I just took the MAF sensor out of my VR6 and have it and the new 2.0 sensor sitting on the desk next to my computer. They are physically identical. The shape of every nook and cranny is the same, the o-ring color is the same, the shape and color of the intake air temp resistor on the side is the same. As far as I can tell (without taking it apart), the internals appear to be the same too.
There is only one difference between the two sensors that I can see. My original VR6 MAF sensor (build date 8/98) has the Bosch name and insignia, Made in Germany and the # 816 (probably a mold #) molded into the outer housing of the sensor. The MAF sensor from my friend's 2000 Golf GL (build date unknown) had similar markings. The new 2.0 MAF (build date 11/02) does not have any of these markings on it. It only has the Bosch part # and the serial #. Oddly though, the new 2.0 MAF housing has the Bosch info molded into it, just like my VR6 and my friend's 2.0 housings have.
I wonder if Bosch contracted someone to manufacture some of the newer MAF sensors at some point - possibly when the demand for them became greater than they could handle by themselves. Most likely, Bosch still makes the housings and assembles the parts themselves, which is why the BOSCH name still appears on the outside of the housing (the only part that most people see). I also wonder if it's only the new 2.0 MAF sensors that lack the Bosch name molded into them or if it applies to other engines, especially the VR6._


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## Kajman (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

This MAF is from 2.0 8v or 16v? Will it suite '93 2.8 vr6?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Kajman)*

The MAF is from a MKIV 2.0 8v. As far as I know, it can only be used in a MKIV VR6.


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## Kajman (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*








http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## akbens (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Kajman)*

Update! I have had a long weekend trip and CEL did not came on, the gas milage is optimal and the car runs great! I strongly advice people to go with this swap! dont pay 300 bucks for a VR6 maf! By the way I might trade my vr6 with a saab 9-3 convertible turbo.


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Thanks for the wonderfull info you provided!
This is one of those things I like to keep in my trunk on long road trips, tool kit w/ jumper cables, triangle, flares, 2 window regs, 1 2.0 MAF!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

Wouldn't it be hysterical if VW/Audi started to include window regs and MAFs in their emergency kits?








BTW, I'm meeting up with DJ-SBK again this afternoon to test the short term and long term fuel trim values in my VR6 with the 2.0 sensor and to check if any codes were stored. I'll post the results tonight after I get back.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

*MAF UPDATE AND VAG-COM TEST RESULTS*
DJ-SBK and I finally did the VAG-COM tests on the 2.0 MAF sensor in the VR6 housing in my car, so I thought I'd update everyone with the results.

*General*

*Total miles since swap:* 1700
*Total # of CELs since swap:* None
*Codes stored in ECM:* None related to MAF (I did get one indicating that my post-cat O2 sensor is fried).
*Average fuel economy on highway:* ~27.5 MPG

*VAG-COM Results*
*Block 2*
*Field 1* - Engine Speed = 680RPM
*Field 2* - Engine Load = 13.4%
*Field 4* - Air mass drawn in = 3.64 g/s
According to the Bentley CD, the acceptable range for the air mass drawn in is 1.0 - 25.0 g/s - the 2.0 MAF sensor *PASSES*.








*Block 32*
*Field 1* - O2 sensor (pre-cat) control learned value at idling (additive) = -0.2%
*Field 2* - O2 sensor (pre-cat) control learned value at part load (multiplicative) = 5.5%
According to the Bentley CD, the acceptable ranges for additive and multiplicative learned values are -3.0 - 3.0% and -10.0 - 10.0%, respectively - the 2.0 MAF sensor *PASSES* (negative (-) values indicate rich, positive (+) values indicate lean).









*I think it can be OFFICIALLY stated now that the 2.0 MAF sensor IS the same as the VR6 sensor and IS a direct replacement for the VR6 sensor (when used in a VR6 MAF housing)!* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Enjoy saving money everyone!!!


_Modified by VgRt6 at 8:00 PM 4-28-2003_


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Gary, my local dealer is askin $70 for the 2.0 MAF, where can I get it cheaper?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (LoGIc)*

Here is a list of dealerships with contact info that I compiled. You'll probably need a 2.0 VIN to buy one from one of these places.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=787970 
BTW, I purchased one from 1st/Auburn VW (www.1stVWparts.com) last week for $34.45 plus shipping. I called them up on the phone to order it as I've found their phone prices are usually a few dollars cheaper than their internet prices.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Get readings from block 002 under load ... WOT in 3rd gear from 2000 rpms to
redline. Post the g/s readings from there too.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (pal)*

OK, I'll do it next time DJ-SBK and I meet up. The VAG-COM is his.


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

So I called my local dealer this morning, gave him the P# 06A 906 461A.
I asked them for price and availability, he said the sensor itself is only $55 but it's not sold separate w/o a wiring harness, with the harness it's $100, me WTF?
He said that since Bosche does not supply the part anymore, there is a new wiring harness now needed, to use the new sensors. So I told him that I was going to use the old housing and just plug in the sensor part. He said that the new sensor has a different plug, so I'm confused, since he could not explain if the new wiring harness is on the housing or the sensor, and could not justify a $45 difference for the wiring harness.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

The new sensors (06A-906-461-A) that I bought were all plug-n-play and did not require any new wiring harness. Both of the sensors I purchased recently were NOT made by Bosch, although they came inside a Bosch housing. The connector on the new 2.0 MAFs is exactly the same as my original (4 years old) Bosch VR6 MAF. I think the dealer might be talking about a revised harness that has been mentioned in some TDIClub threads (check out some of them in the original post of this thread). Supposedly some old MAF harness connectors (the plug in the car, not the part attached to the actual sensor) had some type of resistance problem and were speculated to cause the MAFs to go bad. A new updated harness with gold-plated connectors was developed to solve the problem. The harness in my 99.5 already had the gold-plated connectors, so I'm not exactly sure what the guys in the thread were talking about. FYI, the original MAF in my car did not actually go bad (even though it had 131,000 miles on it). The intake air temp resistor on the side of the MAF failed and was throwing a CEL. I had to replace the whole MAF to fix the problem even though the MAF portion of the sensor still worked properly. That's another reason why I started investigating this. I didn't want to pay $300-400 just to fix the air temp sensor and get rid of the CEL.
There is a description of a new digital MAF on Bosch's website which I think has a new style connector. Maybe VW will switch to this sometime in the future. That part would have a new part # though. I doubt VW would require every present 2.0 owner from now on to by a new harness with every new MAF. Just buy the MAF without the new harness (if you can) and don't worry about it. A couple of people including myself (twice) have bought 06A-906-461-A and used the sensor without any trouble.
BTW, if you can get a 2.0 VIN#, check out the link a few posts up. I bought mine from one of those dealers for only $34.45.
Good luck. Let me know if you have any more questions.


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Thanks for the clarification! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I just completed the online order with http://www.1stvwparts.com it did not ask for a VIN# (only as an option) as I did not fill out that spot and for $35.89 plus S+H got an order confirmation#! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Again, thanks for all the info you provided, I will add this part to my trunk road kit and be good to go! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

You know, I just realized that even the famous http://www.vwparts.com has that part for $80 now, so maybe they are keeping the same Part# and automatically including the new wires with the kit?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

I hope they send you the MAF without any problems. When I called them up to order my last MAF they didn't ask me for a VIN. 5 minutes later, the guy calls me back and says "The MAF is a 'logged' part and we need a VIN for you to order one." Hopefully the same thing won't happen to you since you ordered it on line.








I doubt the MAF comes with the harness from IMPEX. I think their prices are just slightly higher.


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

It showed order confirmed, but just in case I have a VIN# ready to go, my cousin has a 2001 Golf 2.0







I just did not want to use it unless I had to. I'm sure it does not go onto the record of the VIN# and this is for their own internal tracking/study but i figured to save that as a on a need to know bases only.
I'll post if they call/e-mail for the VIN# or let it go w/o one.


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

Yup, they want a VIN#


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

You to the nearest parking lot an find a Jetta, LOL!
I have asked in the local Miami thread to see if someone wants to facilitate his. I will let you know.


----------



## hiegear (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

i posted a while back to get someones VIN and someone was nice enough to give theirs to me. When I went to the stealership the guy asked what year my car was, I was like "ahhh 2000?" he said "well this VIN is off a 99". I then just told him it was my mothers car and I'm doing her a favor. He then asked me to bring the car in and he'll match the VIN number. I told him she lived in Mass, I live in CT. He was being a real dick. I told him to forget it I'll take my business elsewhere. Went to another stealership. They asked for the VIN and year of car. I told him 99 then he asked what color. My heart stopped, I thought you have to be kidding me, I said black. He came back out and wrote up an order, I still don't know if I'm right about the color, but has anyone else gotten 20 freakin questions.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*(VgRt6)*

Is there any info on MKIII 2.0/VR6 MAF's being interchangable?


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6) (schrickedVR6)*

Not that I know of, but it's worth looking into. If it works for MKIVs there is a good chance it will also work for MKIIIs.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

*IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION*
The 2.0 MAF that has the same internal sensor as the VR6 *AND* is cheap is 06A-906-461A. This MAF was used on early MKIV 2.0s ('99-'00) with engine code AEG. In order to buy one of these MAFs from a dealer that requires a VIN, you'll need a valid VIN from a 2.0 with an AEG engine. Later model MKIV 2.0 (like those with engine code AVH) supposedly use a MAF with a different part number (06A-906-461G). I'm not sure if the sensor in this MAF is also the same as the VR6 sensor, but regardless, the '461G' MAF is not being sold at a reduced price. If you want the good deal, you'll need to buy the '461A' MAF. This is the only 2.0 MAF that is being sold at the greatly reduced price.
Thanks to ElectroMike for clarifying this.
























_Modified by VgRt6 at 11:03 PM 4-29-2003_


----------



## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

We'll have this thing bagged one of these days!
















To make this official, here is the responce I got from an internet vw parts supplier, when I used a VIN# from a 2001 Jetta 2.0, A/T:
_The correct MAF for that VIN is 06A 906 461 G. Your cost on it is $242.75 VW will not supply me 06A 906 461 A for that VIN. Typically The "A" MAF fits 99-00 A4 models equipped with engine type AEG. The VIN you supplied is equipped with engine type AVH._ 
So as VgRt6 mentioned, stick with the 99-00 Model VIN's!

















***Edit spelling


_Modified by ElectroMike at 8:25 AM 4-30-2003_


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Excellent detective work! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical ([email protected])*

Since Mike wasnt able to order his MAF thru http://www.vwparts.com I volunteered to help him out since I have a hook up at one of our local dealers. The order went thru and I asked a friend pickup the MAF because that dealer is about 35miles from my home and just a few minutes away from his. I took off last nite to attend one of our local dub meetings where I was going to pick up his MAF from my friend. The car was running strong, I had a few spirited runs with a couple of imports when all of the sudden when I exit the expressway there was no power at all when I gave it gas. Since I am 5 MAF veteran I knew pretty much it was my MAF.
How ironic can it be? I am going to pick up a MAF to hook up a fellow dubber and mine goes kaput! I pulled out at the meeting spot, fired up my VAGCOM and there it was: Long Term Lean condition Bank1. The car would barely idle so I had to disconnect my MAF for the trip back home. And to add insult to irony, my hook up told my friend that Mike's was the last one, they are on backorder again! I have to try other local dealers now, I got a friend's VIN ready.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

Sounds like the MAF gods are angry!








5 MAFs? Now #6? That's amazing! My first one lasted 132,000 miles and I only replaced it because the intake air temp sensor (small red resistor on the side of the MAF sensor) went and was throwing a CEL. The air flow part of the MAF still worked fine. I could still use it, but wanted to get rid of the CEL. Maybe you have the MAF harness problem that has been discussed at length in some of the TDIClub MAF threads. Something has to be causing the incredibly frequent MAF failures in your car.
I think Mike tried to order the MAF from http://www.1stVWparts.com not Impex (http://www.vwparts.com). I just wanted to clarify this so people wouldn't stop trying to buy the MAF from Impex. AFAIK, they do not ask for a VIN when purchasing a MAF. I may be wrong though.


----------



## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

Ironic should be your middle name!









BTW, the above ^^^^ info is correct and on top of it, my local VW dealer has the new MAF for the 2.0 with a new wiring harness for $100, so since Impex wants $80, I assume it's the same new part just -20% discount.

I've been also looking into a Universal MAF but cannot find someone to commit validity for the VR6 applicatin.









**Edit spelling!


_Modified by ElectroMike at 11:20 AM 5-1-2003_


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

Mike can you get me the part no. on the new harness?


----------



## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROCKnRLR* »_Mike can you get me the part no. on the new harness?

It was not available separatly, it came together with the P# 06A 906 461A he (VW parts guy) said the new batch is not Bosche anymore and they come with the new wiring harness already attatched to the part. Officially they did not change the P#, to include the new wire kit but obviously for the extra $55 ($100 total) it's there.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

Wonder if I have to go that route instead of just replacing the MAF with an 2.0 sensor. i guess I will be bothering you in the future if my/your maf blows


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

I'm very curious about what the "new" harness that Mike's dealership offers actually is. My new 2.0 sensor is not a Bosch unit (doesn't say Bosch on the actual sensor although it does still say it on the exterior housing) and it did not require a new harness to plug into my car. It was strictly plug-n-play. Also, I think the revised harnesses mentioned in the TDIClub thread were only like $7 or something. Supposedly it isn't a new harness, but rather a kit for repairing the old harness. It involves swapping terminal connectors inside the original harness or something like that. $100 seems steep for the MAF/harness combo if the harness is what the TDICLub are talking about. If it is, you should be able to get it for around $42 ($35 for MAF, $7 for harness repair kit). I'll try and track down the harness repair info from the TDIClub threads when I have time.


----------



## IZFresh69 (Mar 14, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

need a DIY how to.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (IZFresh69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IZFresh69* »_need a DIY how to.









- Go to a near parking lot, look for a Golf or Jetta without engine badge (TDI, VR6, and 1.8T have it). Look at the side markers, if they are yellow: Bingo! It is a '99 or '00, write down VIN and remember color.
- Go to dealer and ask for the part no. discussed above, furnish VIN (They might ask for the color of the car, you have it!)
- Remove your MAF from the airbox (two Phillips screws).
- Look at the sensor in the MAF, there are two screws holding it in place. Grab a set of locking pliers and loosen each screw 1/4 turn. Using a 1/8" wide flathead screwdriver jam the flathead in the security torx (5spoke) and unscrew it completely, repeat. Put sensor away, so you dont mix the good and the bad one.
- Do the same with the 2.0 MAF
- Put 2.0 sensor in VR6 housing, assemble in reverse order.
Send $5 paypal to [email protected]


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (IZFresh69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IZFresh69* »_need a DIY how to.









For what? The sensor swap or the harness repair?


----------



## IZFresh69 (Mar 14, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Both I suppose.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (IZFresh69)*

Look above fo rmy DIY how to


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (IZFresh69)*

I could do the sensor swap one, but I don't have a digital camera. I'm still looking for info on the harness repair. Not sure exactly what that involves yet.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

I can do the sensor tomorrow at work. I left my digicam there (and I will have the 2.0 housing with the VR6 sensor in my car)







CELs erased on their own, I cleared the codes and did TB alignment.


----------



## IZFresh69 (Mar 14, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

cool I just do not want to spend $200 on a MAF if I can spend $50. I lost the 2.0 part number.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (IZFresh69)*

06A-906-461-A


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

ROCKnRLR, thanks for offering to do the DIY. We'll have to get this thread and the DIY posted together in the VR6 FAQ.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

I will be taking the pics and posting them here later. I am sleepy. Last nite was my younger brother B-day and I stayed awake past 1am, I am in the office already.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

Here is a link to a DIY with photos - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=827238.
Thanks ROCKnRLR.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Ever wonder what's inside the MAF sensor. Here it is! 
Thanks to howi for taking the photos.

























_Modified by VgRt6 at 12:21 PM 5-19-2003_


_Modified by VgRt6 at 8:32 AM 5-20-2003_


----------



## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Where is the zoom on that camera?!








Here's slogan for you:
If they can build it, we can break it and we can fix it! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
........brought to you by the powers of Vortex!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

Man, you're too fast. I posted the first one in order to test the new host I just signed up for. The other (2) are at higher mag. Enjoy.


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_Man, you're too fast. 

That's what my wife says!







J/K!









Looking at the magnified pic, I can see those tiny wire strands just breaking off from vibration, I actually remember seing a pic like this with the failure coming from a stress break at one of the wire joints.

I might of mentioned it before, if anyone has a BAD MAF, which was not thrown away yet, IM me, then send it to me, I'll give it a crack at repairing it. If I can, it will be FREE of charge (for the first 10 or so anyway), I'll waive it as experience with the MAF and put it into the Vortex record books! I'll even prepay the shipping charges from my end!








I don't like having unturned rocks left, specially the ones we stumble on!
















***Edit spelling


_Modified by ElectroMike at 12:34 PM 5-19-2003_


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## howi (Apr 16, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*

ElectroMike,
The pix shown here are mine... Thanks VgRt6 to post it for me.
Anyway, there is NO visual damage to the circuit that we have found on the faulty MAF. Any damage would be microscopic level. I do not believe vibration will contribute anything at all because the whole PCB is embedded in a layer of silicone. The type of silicone gel Bosch use is one of a kind. A friend of mine in the Chemistry industry told me, it is relatively more "gooey" than average harder silicone. It will be better in dampening external shock. The picture may look like there is broken connection but it is actually lighting condition, fingerprint, fine dust on the surface of the silicone gel. For your reference, I can send you the original 1600x1200 300-pixels-per-inch pictures.




_Modified by howi at 12:39 AM 5-20-2003_


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## kamil (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (howi)*

i'm ordering the MAF tomorrow..... the 2.slow one that is


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## kamil (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (kamil)*

damn, everything is on back order so i have to wait a few weeks


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## collier (Aug 6, 1999)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

I love learning new things, especiallly when they make sense AND save money
chris


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## kamil (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (collier)*

ttt for people to see and save money


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## cjdoyle (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

What was the original DTC that prompted this? Was it P1128 or VAG COM "Long Term Fuel Trim mult.,Bank1 System too Lean"? I am getting this but am about to trade the car in any day. I don't want to spend a lot but would be willing to stay under a hundred or so if it'll fix it. I don't want to sink a few hundred into a car that will be going in a few days. Any thoughts? I basically want to make sure that the 2.0 MAF will get rid of my codes before I spend any money.
I am getting P1128. I clear out the DTC but it'll come back in a day or two depending on the weather. The hotter the faster. I cross referenced the P1128 and came up with the VAG 17536.
Thanks,
doyle


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (cjdoyle)*

All of this started because of code P1128. A new 2.0 MAF should take care of the CEL and DTC for you. It did for me!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Bump to the top for those who missed it.


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## TMcNally (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Dude you have 135k on a 99.5 Jetta...Damn! I'm getting near 48k and it makes me







. Great job with this info. I trust your idea 100%. I did have one MAF failure at like 35k...I think the repair was $500 at the dealer. So your saying if it fails again I can't use my VIN or I'll get scammed? One of the posts above said to look for a 99 or 2000 without a TDI, VR6, or 1.8T badge (on the trunk right?) What's left? Is that a four-banger, gas, no turbo?
And BTW if my VIN will get y'all the right part I'll post it here myself! VW can kiss my a**. What are they going to do to me? I'll tell them it musta been copied off my car and put on the Internet. I'll be telling the truth, but I'll leave off the fact that I copied it to the Internet personally!








Actually anyone that has a valid VIN/car color should just post it here...especially if it's not your own car. If y'all see one in a parking lot post it here...by time VW ever saw that 10-20-50 MAF we're ordered for VIN #1, we'll have VIN #2 posted anyway...then #3, #4, ETC!
VgRt6...as far as you know is part still real cheap or have they caught on?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (TMcNally)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TMcNally* »_I'll be telling the truth, but I'll leave off the fact that I copied it to the Internet personally!









Classic!
You need a VIN from a '99 or '00 4-banger 2.0 liter. Some people have been finding VINs in Ebay's auto section. That's the best tip I've heard so far.
The MAFs are still cheap. I went to the site I bought one of mine from (http://www.1stvwparts.com) to look for an O2 sensor and checked out the MAFs to see if they had changed the price. It was still $35 and change.


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## TMcNally (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_
The MAFs are still cheap. I went to the site I bought one of mine from (http://www.1stvwparts.com) to look for an O2 sensor and checked out the MAFs to see if they had changed the price. It was still $35 and change.

Did you go on that website and check just now? I had no luck there...When I select 1999 MK4 isn't a model choice...when I search for 06A 906 461A no part numbers come up...what am I doing wrong there?








Edit: I am a clown puncher! When you search leave out spaces!!! Search for:
06A906461A





























For laughs I looked up my Mass Ass Flow sensor repair from 5/24/2002 w/ 36.9k miles...
part was $193.47...install was $158.00 for a total of $351.47
part replaced was 071906461B....same as VgRt6's (this is 2.8L part #)
http://www.1stvwparts.com has THAT part for $145.39.
So if you are TOTALLY paranoid at least you can get the part there somewhat cheaper than dealer...and since install seems to be a breeze...although I got charged $158 for install I guess some of that was diags.
Personally I'll go with VgRt6's plan myself...soon as I can find my credit card and one of your broke-ass poor mofo's 99-00 GL in a parking lot somewhere!











































_Modified by TMcNally at 2:34 AM 7-12-2003_


_Modified by TMcNally at 2:46 AM 7-12-2003_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (TMcNally)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TMcNally* »_...soon as I can find my credit card and one of your broke-ass poor mofo's 99-00 GL in a parking lot somewhere!












































Another classic!










_Modified by VgRt6 at 10:17 AM 7-12-2003_


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## 1boney1 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Did the 2.0 to VR6 swap today. Works great and the CEL reset itself so I didn't even have to plug the VAG-COM in. (I'm sure the code is still stored in there somewhere though...)
I put the ohmmeter to the good and bad MAF to see the results. All the resistence values were the same EXCEPT: I found that the resistence between pin 1 & 3 was 1.8k-ohms on the good one, and 1.9k-ohms on the bad. Done at very similar temp.
According to the Bently Book, the tolerance is about 1.8 to 2k-ohms, but obviously this is not as accurate as the CPU requires.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (1boney1)*

Another satisfied customer!


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## PBGTIGLX (Apr 27, 2000)

*Sensor part is one digit off!!!!*

Just drove 50 miles to pick up a 2.0 MAF for my 99.5 GTI GLX. The local dealer wouldn't order me one without the VIN. I called a dealer down the road (50 miles) and he said, sure, I have one here for $48. Part #06A 906 461A. I said, I'll be right over. I picked up the new MAF, got back to work and pulled the sensor from the new unit (which only had the Bosch P/N on it - 0 280 218 002 - no VW part no to be found). The sensor itself has no Bosch name, just a part number, which is 00C 2G2 *8*32. the Bosch P/N on the old sensor is 00C 2G2 *0*32 (my bold type). So...... is it the same sensor???? I looked at the 8 for quite some time and it's definitely an 8, not a 0. Any thoughts or suggestions before I try this baby in the VR6???? Has anyone else seen the Bosch sensor ending in 832 instead of 032?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (PBGTIGLX)*

It's probably a computer type 0 - the one with the slash through it. I thought the same thing the first time I opened a 2.0 MAF up. The trouble is that the numbers on the new MAFs are imprinted with individual dots - that's why the 0 with a slash can look like an 8. The numbers on my original VR6 MAF were imprinted with continuous numbers - there's no way to confuse a 0 with an 8.
Here are some pics to illustrate the point. The first pic is from my original 99.5 VR6 MAF. The second pic is from the 2.0 MAF I bought in April.

















Hope this helps clear things up. I'm sure the MAF is the same part number as the rest of the VR6/2.0 MAFs - F 00C 2G2 032. Go ahead and use the one you bought.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 5:40 PM 7-21-2003_


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## RwingVR6 (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Anthony.L)*

I've done it and it works! I just looked on a used car website, got the VIN off a 2.0, called a dealer and ordered it for 300.00 less than VW charges for a VR6. (40.00)
All dummy lights went out within a day or two and full power was restored to the engine.


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## PBGTIGLX (Apr 27, 2000)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_It's probably a computer type 0 - the one with the slash through it. I thought the same thing the first time I opened a 2.0 MAF up. The trouble is that the numbers on the new MAFs are imprinted with individual dots - that's why the 0 with a slash can look like an 8. 

I think you must be right, although if they ever tried to print an 8, I can't imagine what it would look like. Anyway, I swapped the sensors, cleared the codes with my VAG-COM and it seems to be running fine with no recurrence of the CEL. Thanks for the cheap fix!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (PBGTIGLX)*

Anytime. Glad it worked out for you.








I wish there was a way that all VR6 owners could see this thread. I bet some are still buying VR6 MAFs at the full price.


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## Kooz (Aug 24, 2002)

Now, I understand that the MKIV 2.0L and VR6 MAF sensors are the same, but does that also hold true for the MKIII sensors?
For example........can I remove just the sensor from a MKIII 2.0L housing in swap it into a MKIII VR6 housing?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (Kooz)*

Don't know. AFAIK, no one has checked the part #'s on the sensors of the MKIII VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors, or if they have, they haven't posted the results. I wouldn't be surprised if they were though. There's not that much difference between the MKIII and MKIV motors, so if they're the same for the MKIVs, it's possible that they're the same for the MKIIIs.
It would be great if someone would check this out and post the results here.


----------



## kevwithoutacorrado (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

if only this worked on obd1 vr6s....


----------



## Menace (Jun 21, 2001)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Well I just got back from Waterfest and my Sc'd VR6 decided to light up like a christmas tree the day after I got home. My EPC, ASR and CEL came on, and the damn thing won't idle. Three different codes, one was MAF below limit, the other was Long Term Fuel Trim Bank1 too Rich, and the third I can't remember. I just picked up a 2.0 MAF and am about to swap it in. If this does the trick, I think all us VR6 owners owe you big time. Nice to see when the 'Tex is actually used for the right reasons! I'll let you know how it works out, as I'm not totally convinced that it's just the MAF that's pooched.
Just wanted to edit this to say that the 2.0 MAF is in and working beautifully! My EPC and ASR light went out right away, now I need to do 3 cold-hot-cold starts for the CE light to go out. My idle went back to a solid 650/700rpm too. This is fantastic!


_Modified by Menace at 2:15 PM 7-23-2003_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (Menace)*

Hope it works out for you.








Edit: Awesome!


_Modified by VgRt6 at 7:08 PM 7-23-2003_


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Wonder if VW is ever going to chime in for this one. They are selling the same part with a $300 difference, are they trying to tell us that the bigger vr6 MAF housing is that much move expensive? Most States have price gouging laws, they is definetively case material. VW http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif !


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

I don't think they're price gouging on the VR6 MAFs. I think that they're taking a big loss on the 2.0 MAFs. The last thing VW needs is more bad publicity!


----------



## nuugen (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_I don't think they're price gouging on the VR6 MAFs. I think that they're taking a big loss on the 2.0 MAFs. The last thing VW needs is more bad publicity!

I don't think so, maybe 40-50.00 is what they cost...I mean, at that price, if you were taking a huge loss and wanted to score some points with a somewhat less-than-pleased buying public, why not just swap them out for no charge?? No huge corporation like VAG is going to actually do something to lose money, the bean-counters would all jump out their windows







I think the price they are selling them for prolly just covers their costs for sourcing the units---I mean, look at the frikn markup on dealer parts







I buy some of the same parts through a distributor for about 70-80% less than what the stealer charges for the same exact part#.....


----------



## DubWho (Jan 19, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (hiegear)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hiegear* »_I talked to a parts manager today. I didn't know him so he might have been pulling my leg, but he said that the MAF from a 2.0 and VR6 are the same, BUT they are calibrated different. That is why the Bosch numbers are the same but the VW#'s are different. What will happen is that your car will run way lean and will eventually kill your cat possible ruin a cylinder. If there is any part guy or some one that has hard proof please write in. I understand that he ran his car for so many miles. but the parts guys said it takes about 2 months and then done. I would hold off on a rush just yet. thats my two cents, I hope to god some one proves me wrong. 205 is a big price to pay.
 This is a huge thread, but great! I skimmed thru all this and I didn't the responce for the calibration question that I am thinking of. Mention of the ECU doing the calibration was given, but I don't think that is what the dealer was talking about. I'm a 1.8T owner and have a smaller diam. MAF housing like the 2.slow guys. The VR6 and Audi 225TT owners have a bigger housing. I can swap out the MAF housing from a 225TT as long as I put in the bigger injectors too. That is because they are "calibrated" together. If a VR6 owner puts in the 2.slow housing, the ECU will think that he is pushing more air thru than actual (smaller diam. means faster flow for same volume of air). Therefore the ECU will send longer pulses to the injectors and cause the car to run rich. A rich motor ruins the cat. I think this is what the dealer is saying. However, you guys are not using the 2.slow housing, but just swapping out the element. Therefore you're A-OK. Great write up guys.


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## dkirsch (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (DubWho)*

I get my 2l sensor to today to put into my VR. Thanks a bunch for the info....


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## ricelessJettavr6 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_Anytime. Glad it worked out for you.








I wish there was a way that all VR6 owners could see this thread. I bet some are still buying VR6 MAFs at the full price.

VgRt6 thank you for the time you took to help us out, i had the this epc/asr problem for a while now but after the dealer told me to fix the problem would cost me 700+ bucks i just said screw it and kept on driving like that. Atleast now thanks to you i have some hope of getting that fixed in a reasonable price. You have IM , thank you.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6OOM (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (ricelessJettavr6)*

Has anybody every just cleaned the maf with some alcohol instead of buying a new one?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (VR6OOM)*

I think a lot of people have - sometimes it works http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , sometimes it doesn't. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Kooz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kooz* »_Now, I understand that the MKIV 2.0L and VR6 MAF sensors are the same, but does that also hold true for the MKIII sensors?
For example........can I remove just the sensor from a MKIII 2.0L housing in swap it into a MKIII VR6 housing?

I am 99.99% sure that the Mk3 sensors are the same as well.
This is why the sensors come out of the housing....
Jeffrey Atwood


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## uams49 (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (VR6OOM)*

I just cleaned the MAF on my 2000 GLX out with alcohol last week. So far so good, I haven't got another cel yet! Only time will tell though.


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## SALVO82 (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (uams49)*

tried cleaning it never worked. bought a 2.0 and it workds thanks VgRt6.


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## Johnnoh (Apr 30, 2000)

Been about 1 week with no CEL!! I just canceled my dealership appointment. Such an easy fix . . . anyone can do it. I just saved over $300.00! Thanks guys!
JD


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## AGRESIVE (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
I am 99.99% sure that the Mk3 sensors are the same as well.
This is why the sensors come out of the housing....
Jeffrey Atwood

So then Jeff, which sensors can be used in a Mk3 OBD2 VR6???


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (AGRESIVE)*

If you can tell us the part#s on the MKIII VR6 MAF housing and even better, on the sensor itself, then we'll let you know.
I've been looking for someone with a MKIII VR6 to provide these #s, but haven't gotten any takers yet.


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## AGRESIVE (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Well then, I'll just go outside right now and pull mine apart.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (AGRESIVE)*

Nice! Finally.


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## AGRESIVE (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Alright, here we are;
The MAF housing has the following:
Bosch Symbol beside 0 280 217 512
VW Symbol beside 021 906 462 A
The VW number matches the number listed on my ETKA for my '98 Jetta VR6
The MAF sensor has the following:
BOSCH
765 17 1 B
104


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## AGRESIVE (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: (AGRESIVE)*

It's obvious the Mk4 sensors won't work in the Mk3 housing as the orientation of the sensor is rotated 90 degrees now that I look at the pictures and the one in my hand. Now all we need to do is determine what the VW part numbers for the Mk3 sensors are, as I can't find them in the ETKA.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (AGRESIVE)*

Too bad they don't match up with the MKIV 2.0's numbers. Good luck compiling the MKIII numbers.


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## GTIman22 (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

I just did the swap too yesterday and fixed my problem running great and saved $150 yeah http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (GTIman22)*

I'd love to know how many people have saved $$$ doing this trick. I bet the # of people and the total amount saved has to be getting pretty high. Awesome.


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## aonegolf79 (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (AGRESIVE)*

Does anyone know if the MkIV housing will work in the MkIII??


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## aonegolf79 (Mar 5, 2002)

94 Golf III GL
MAF housing: 0 280 217 103(below Bosch logo)
770 29 1 B (underside of MAF mounting hole)
MAF sensor: 770 24 1 B 107


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## MTLVR6 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: (aonegolf79)*

Thanks for saving me some doe! We need to spread the word!


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## aonegolf79 (Mar 5, 2002)

What long term effect (besides not passing emissions) will running my car with the MAF disconnected have?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (aonegolf79)*

My guess is you maybe could foul up the catalytic converter and O2 sensors and maybe some other stuff too.


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## mldhab (Aug 7, 2003)

I just went to my local dealer (Tri Cities, Wa) and asked for the price of an MAF for an early 2001 New Beetle (APH engine) - he said "$57, and I was lucky because VW just started supplying the same MAF for my engine as the 2.0 liter uses". Yes - it is the "A" version. will install it in a few minutes. No #'s, Colors etc. asked for - just the $'s. Kool.










_Modified by mldhab at 12:30 AM 8-12-2003_


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## SSheikh (Jul 19, 2000)

*Re: (mldhab)*

I haven't read this whole thread so someone may have already mentioned this.
All the MAFs bearing the same Bosch part number are "electrically" identical. What is different about a 2.0/1.8T/1.9TDI and a VR6 MAF is that it is programmed for different amount of airflow based on the housing it is fitted in.
Which is the reason why when you buy the MAF, the housing comes with it. I don't have concrete proof of this but the controller in the MAF appears to be programmable. Once it is mounted on the air flow housing pipe, it is programmed/calibrated to read the correct amount of air flow for that housing.
The 2.0 and the VR6 MAFs are indeed programmed/calibrated differently. When I installed the 2.0 MAF in my VR6, eventhough, everything seemed to run fine (actually it was better than fine, the engine seemed more free spirited but it may have been just my imagination because prior to changing the MAF the car had become a dog) and the CEL went away, my MPG in the MFA was seriously wrong. It was showing 15 ~ 21 MPG.
That is when I looked at the air flow being read by the MAF using vag-com and it was showing more air flowing than it should have been. I don't remember the actual numbers now.
To fix the MPG on my MFA, I ran adaptation on the cluster to show 110% of the actual MPG value. Shortly after that I had to sell the car so I can't tell you if it is still running or not.
Send me an e-mail if you have a specific question for me. I very seldom am on these forums now.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (SSheikh)*

SSheikh- You're post about this way, way back was what inspired me to start this thread.
Are you absolutely sure that the sensors are programmed differently? The reason that I ask this is that I saw no differences in the drivability of the car and gas mileage when using both working VR6 and 2.0 sensors in the VR6 housing. The reason I originally replaced my MAF (and started this thread) was that the intake air temp sensor was giving me intermittent codes and I had a long tern fuel trim lean code (P1128 - long term trim value was 5.5%). My original VR6 MAF still works well, but replaced it to get rid of the annoying CEL. I even saved the old sensor since the car still had full power and excellent fuel economy. With both the VR6 and 2.0 sensors, the car drove great and got 28-29MPG on the highway.
I realize that the above isn't very scientific, but I wanted you to know that I noticed NO differences after swapping the sensors. Your statement have made me curious and I'm going to try to run some VAG-COM tests with the old (VR6) and new (2.0) sensors. I still believe that the sensors are electrically identical and that any differences in calibration are made by the ECM after the airflow measurement is made. Your claims are worth investigating further though. I'll let everyone know what I find out.


_Quote, originally posted by *SSheikh* »_Which is the reason why when you buy the MAF, the housing comes with it.

This could also be to protect the actual sensor from being damaged during transport, installation, etc. The sensor can probably be easily damaged if something comes in contact with it. The housing helps prevent this from happening and should only add a small amount to the price of the MAF assembly. Another reason the housing comes with the sensor is that the ECM is calibrated for a certain diameter intake and is expecting the MAF sensor to be mounted in a housing of that diameter.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 4:09 PM 8-12-2003_


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## SSheikh (Jul 19, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ElectroMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ElectroMike* »_
Looking at the magnified pic, I can see those tiny wire strands just breaking off from vibration, I actually remember seing a pic like this with the failure coming from a stress break at one of the wire joints.


Going OT here... Those joints you see are done with a wire bonder. Same kind of wire bonder that is used to connect the pins of an IC to the silicon wafer inside it. Some of those wire bonder connections are certified to sustain extreme magnitude and frequency of vibration (orders of magnitude higher than what a car can generate.) In the case of our MAFs, that whole PCB you see if settled inside a clear silicon gel that holds all wires and parts together.
IMO, the MAF designs from Bosch are pretty ingenious. They are also advertised on their website: http://www.boschusa.com/AutoOr...rFlow/
I believe the reason they go bad so often is because of inproper shielding and protection from the elements. The conditions under the hood are pretty harsh for complicated electronics to work under and without proper shielding electronics in there will go bad. 
I have not seen the new harness but I would suspect that the biggest change in the harness is shielding of the data signals.
So it may not be a crappy MAF. It may be crappy use of the MAF which is causing headaches for so many.


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## SSheikh (Jul 19, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_Are you absolutely sure that the sensors are programmed differently? 

Nope. It was my assumption that they were. By the time I replaced mine with a 2.0, the original one had already gone bad so I couldn't compare the readings I was getting. I did write them down at that time but its been more than a years now and I doubt I still have that paper. I do remember that the air flow measurements weren't what they should have been. They were close but not entirely correct.
The second problem was the MPG reported by the ECU was incorrect.

_Quote »_The reason that I ask this is that I saw no differences in the drivability of the car and gas mileage when using both working VR6 and 2.0 sensors in the VR6 housing. The reason I originally replaced my MAF (and started this thread) was that the intake air temp sensor was giving me intermittent codes and I had a long tern fuel trim lean code (P1128 - long term trim value was 5.5%). My original VR6 MAF still works well, but replaced it to get rid of the annoying CEL. I even saved the old sensor since the car still had full power and excellent fuel economy. With both the VR6 and 2.0 sensors, the car drove great and got 28-29MPG on the highway.

Actual gas mileage on mine was correct too. Just the one being reported wasn't correct. 

_Quote »_Your statement have made me curious and I'm going to try to run some VAG-COM tests with the old (VR6) and new (2.0) sensors. I still believe that the sensors are electrically identical and that any differences in calibration are made by the ECM after the airflow measurement is made. Your claims are worth investigating further though. I'll let everyone know what I find out.

Would be interested in knowing what you find out. Comparing the Vag-com readouts is the only sure-shot way of knowing if the two MAFs are calibrated differently.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (SSheikh)*

Any tips on what to data to log or what blocks to measure? I'm sure I could figure it out, but if you happen to know what to check and could tell me, that would be great. How about Block 002, Field 4? That should be the air mass drawn in (g/s). I'd like to do the measurements on three different MAFs - my old VR6 MAF, my new 2.0 MAF and a new VR6 MAF. Too bad I only have acces to the first two. Maybe I can get me hands on a new VR6 MAF somehow.
I'll try and do the tests in the next few days. I don't have a VAG-COM, but two local friends do. I'll run the tests as soon as we can meet up.


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## SSheikh (Jul 19, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Its been a while so I don't remember. I think there is only one air mass drawn reading in there. If you get a chance, get readings at 2 or 3 different RPMs with the different MAFs. Like get one at idle, then one at 1000 RPM, and maybe another at 2000 RPM.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (SSheikh)*

That's what I was planning on doing. I wonder if you can log the air flow measurement and use the data to generate a plot of air flow vs. RPM. I'll check it out when I have the VAG-COM in hand. It would be much easier to compare the operation of the two MAFs with two air flow curves on a single plot.


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## TMcNally (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

I briefly checked out my shareware (but not registered) copy the other night. I definately saw a g/s reading for air...there is some kind of plotter too, but dunno if it logs after the fact...or can you save it or what. When I checked I was still in shareware mode...sorry. I'd try the readings at rest, but also under load too. If it could graph/log g/s from 0-100 that would rule too...you'd get "real world" usage. Well maybe for that 0-120.








But IMHO if the sensors we're really different one of them wouldn't be able to run the car right. If at any given point, for example, one sensor says 200 g/s and the other would say 150 g/s than one off them would trip a CEL or cause the motor to stumble...or something...right?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (TMcNally)*

That's exactly what we're going to do - idle to redline in neutral and in either 2nd or 3rd (if we can find enough road).
My guess is that the engine will run fine if the values are close, but will start to act funny as the difference in real and perceived airflow increases too much. WHo knows what the threshold is though.
Should be a neat test. I'll post the plots here when they're done.


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## SilberArrow6 (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

You will not get an accurate reading if you rev from idle to redline in neutral. The sampling rate for a VAG-COM only reads a few times per second. Do your runs in at least 3rd gear, preferably 4th. Also if you know anyone with an APR scan tool (don't remember its name but it is new) it has much higher sampling rate and will give you a much clearer picture. You will need to save your logs as a .csv file (comma separated value) and export to Excel. From there you can graph out the data.


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## PhOO (May 23, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

all the bosch style elements are the same... just the housings are diffrent. and sometimes the plugs


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (SilberArrow6)*

Thanks for the tips. I know the VAG sampling rate is too slow to rev it at WOT in neutral. Can I just rev it up slowly instead? Or does the engine need to be under some load to get accurate airflow readings.


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## PhOO (May 23, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

needs to be under load


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (PhOO)*

I'll give it a shot in 3rd. There's no way I'm doing it in 4th on public roads. I don't need my insurance going through the roof.


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## rchong9 (Jul 20, 1999)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

VgRt6,
I've been searching this and a few other threads for the "17536 lean fuel trim code". I don't have a VAGCOM but a member close to me does. What do I need to due to isolate the fault to a particular sensor? The only other codes were related to misfiring probably due to the arcing under the hood from condensation when I leave my car outside overnight








Thanks!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (rchong9)*

Code 17536 or P1128 will in most cases be due to either a bad MAF or pre-cat oxygen sensor or a leak in the intake between the MAF and the manifold. Here are a few VAG-COM tests you can do to help determine which one is at fault. The info below is from the MKIV Bentley CD.
1. Check the MAF airflow reading at idle. Make sure the car is running and warmed up and the A/C is off. Go to Block 002 and look in Field 4. The value at idle should be between 1 and 25 g/s. If it's lower than 1 g/s, then there is probably a leak in the intake tubing between the MAF and manifold.
2. Go to Block 030. Field 1 is a three-digit binary code which gives the status of the pre-cat oxygen sensor. The digits indicate whether or not the sensor heater is working and whether or not the oxygen sensor control is operational and active. The value should fluctuate between 111 (heater on) and 011 (heater off). If the last two digits are not predominantly '1', then the problem may be the pre-cat oxygen sensors.
3. Go to Block 032. Field 1 represents the fuel trim at idle (additive) and Field 2 represents the fuel trim at part load (multiplicative). Since 17536 is a multiplicative lean code, only look at Field 2. The value should be between -10 and +10% (it should be positive since 17536 is a lean code). If the value is +25% (which is the upper limit), it usually means that the MAF is bad. If the value is somewhere betweeen +10 and +25%, it could mean that the pre-cat oxygen sensor is bad, there is a leak in the intake or that the MAF is on it's way out. The value I found for my car (VR6), which has a new 2.0 MAF and new oxygen sensors is +1.6%.
4. Go to Block 033. The value in Field 1 represents the pre-cat oxygen sensor control. The value should fluctuate at least 2% in the -10 to +10% range.

Hope this helps.







Let me now if you have any questions about the tests.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Good info...I wanna keep my eye on this!

Later,


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## rchong9 (Jul 20, 1999)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Hi VgRt6,
Here are the results from your suggested steps:
1. Block 002, field 4 is reading about 3.5 g/s at idle and moves up with increasing rpm.
2. Block 030, field 1 is either 111 or 011.
3. Block 032, field 1 is about +23.4%
4. Block 033, field 1 is fluctuating about 5%
So, I'm think my MAF is toast except... I disconected my battery during the weekend to clear the CEL and ensure that it came back on which it did on the 3rd cold-hot-cold cycle. Now I have new codes








- 18010 power supply too low
- 16524 No O2 activity








Help, please.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (rchong9)*

As far as the new codes go, 18010 is logged whenever you disconnect the battery. Ignore it. 16524 means that your post-cat oxygen sensor is not active. The post-cat sensor only monitors catalytic converter efficiency and will not affect your lean condition or engine performance.
The results of tests 1,2, and 4 are all good. Test 3 suggests that your MAF is toast. Before replacing it, do these additional tests.
1. Go to Block 030 again. Field 2 gives the status of the post-cat sensor. Like the pre-cat sensor, the value should also fluctuate between 111 and 011. If it doesn't, rev the engine quickly up to around 2000 RPMs or so and see if the value changes. If not, there may be a problem with the post-cat sensor.
2. Go to Block 036 and make sure you're in Basic Settings and not Measuring Blocks. Block 036 entails performing an automated test and you can only do this in Basic Settings. Depress the brake pedal and hold it. After a short period of time, the engine should raise to around 1400RPMs (Field 1) and Field 4 should switch from TEST OFF to TEST ON. Field 3 is the sensor voltage and should fluctuate slightly between 0 and 1V (mine fluctuates around 0.75V). After a period of time, Field 4 should change to either 'B1-S2 OK' (the post-cat sensor is good) or 'B1-S2 NOT OK' (the post-cat sensor is bad). Once one of these two has been displayed in Field 4, release the brakke pedal to stop the automated test. The engine should return to idle.
Do the tests and let me know what you find.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 8:18 PM 8-20-2003_


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## rchong9 (Jul 20, 1999)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Ok fresh, well actually day old data:
1. Block 030, field 2 has the following values 000, 100 and, 110 that I could see.
2. Block 36, Field 3 is 0.7V and field 4 is B1-S2 OK. What is wierd is that the data shows up in different fields and we didn't see any RPM numbers in any of the fields.
We tried both reading s from scratch 3 times to rule out and temporary errors or inconsistancies. Any ideas?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (rchong9)*

If you can, try checking Block 030, Field 2 while driving (take someone with you). Sometimes the engine needs toi be under-load to get the last digit to change to a '1'. If it doesn't, you may want to replace the sensor even though Block 036 said it was OK. The sensor (06A-906-262-Q) is under $16 at http://www.1stvwparts.com. 
Looks like your MAF is definitley toast. I'd buy a 2.0 MAF and swap the sensor with your VR6 sensor. The 2.0 MAF is onlt $35 at 1stvwparts.com.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 4:55 PM 8-23-2003_


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## retrospect (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (VgRt6)*

I was getting a cel 17559, decided to switch out my MAF with a 2.0 maf. However, after I switched the unit my idle got wierd. WHen its already warmed up I will idle around 1100 sometimes (like at a stop light), then it will drop to 700 a little while later (my normal idle). If I rev my engine it doesnt just drop down to 700, sometimes it hovers around 1100 then goes down to 700.
Anyone else experience this? I never had this until I switched MAFs


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## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (retrospect)*

i will be able to answer that question tomorrow afternoon when i get my new 2.0 MAF and install it


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Sensor part is one digit off!!!! (retrospect)*

My idle did not change when I did the MAF swap. It was 680 and steady before and after. Try unplugging the battery for 15 mins. to reset the ECU. That might help calm the idle down. Reconnect the battery, turn the ignition to 'ON' (don't start the car) and let it sit for 2 mins. Then start the car and let it idle for 2 mins. That's it. The car may drive like crap right after the reset, but should settle down after the engine parameters are relearned with the new MAF.


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## retrospect (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

As I understand it, the mass airflow sensor measures how much air is passing the sensor correct?
The 2 liter MAF housing is smaller than the VR6 maf housing. Therefore if the air velocity in both housing were equal, more air would be moving through the VR6 (because of its larger diameter). 
Wouldnt that screw things up? Or is the diamter of the MAF housing accounted for in the ECU?
Anyone here think that a 2 liter maf in a VR6 housing would give faulty readings?


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (retrospect)*

Our empirical analysis has arrived to the conclusion that the ECU compensates for difference in housing diameter.
BTW, one of our local dealers has started to sell generic Bosch 2.0L sensors. They are not branded VW/Audi. They are a bit more expensive that the ones branded as VW/Audi but they dont hassle you for VIN numbers and what not. They still sell the VW/Audi at the normal price.


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## rchong9 (Jul 20, 1999)

*Re: (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_Looks like your MAF is definitley toast. I'd buy a 2.0 MAF and swap the sensor with your VR6 sensor. The 2.0 MAF is onlt $35 at 1stvwparts.com.
_Modified by VgRt6 at 4:55 PM 8-23-2003_

VgRt6, I just want to thank you for your help and give kudo's to you and your persistence. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif A friend of mine to going to order the part from the dealer but they're getting pretty sticky about it. He has to physically bring in the car so that they can "see" the VIN before ordering it. If all else fails then I'll try the site above.
Is there any precautions that I should take while my MAF is KO'ed? I need to make a 6 hour drive to a friends wedding this weekend.


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## rchong9 (Jul 20, 1999)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

ROCKnRLR,
As a back up plan, will your dealer ship to Canada? If so send the contact info or post it if you like. Hey I'm willing to FedEx this baby







Thanks.


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## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (rchong9)*

hey i just installed a 2.0 MAF in my vr6 which had a bad maf. Anyway it works like a charm but i still have a cel due to a bad O2 sensor and coolant temp sensor. previously i had sputtering betweeen 1000 and 1700rpms. This new 2.0 maf has elimitated that. One thing though. those torx security screws are a ----- to take out without the right tool


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (rchong9)*

Anytime.








The car should be OK for a while. Don't sweat it too much. Just get the sensor replaced as soon as you can. A week or two of driving on the bad one probably won't hurt anything. Long term use may harm the catalytic converter though. I think that's what happened to me - I drove with the bad MAF for a few months and now I'm getting a cat efficiency code (16804).


----------



## SilberArrow6 (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Believe it or not the O2 sensor is an easy install if you can get your car raised. Did mine in about 1.5 hour with a follow-up road test. Pull the cat shield 1st. It'll still be tight but not too much trouble. The biggest pain was screwing the new O2 sensor back in. Try Adarondaks (sp) and a few other places for the best price. Don't get taken by the dealer.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (SilberArrow6)*

The hardest part of changing the O2 sensor is getting the old one out. The threads on the old sensor tend to seize and are difficult to 'wake up' since the space around the top of the catalytic converter is so tight.
Here's a DIY with pics. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=990129


----------



## SilberArrow6 (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_The hardest part of changing the O2 sensor is getting the old one out. 

True. I used a Crescent and a 4" socket extension and it popped right free. Wirhout the socket ext. I couldn't get the leverage to break it free. I fed the ext. through from in front of the x-member if I remember.


----------



## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (SilberArrow6)*

Just changed my precat O2 sensor and it came off really easy! with a crescent wrench!









great DIY on vortex http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (DrTacoElf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DrTacoElf* »_Just changed my precat O2 sensor and it came off really easy! with a crescent wrench!











Lucky!!!


----------



## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Yep very lucky. it elimiated my CEL and "Emissions workshop also"








the car is so much more powerful and smooth now


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (DrTacoElf)*

Congrats.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF*

One of our local dealers is selling these now (with out hassling for VINs). They retail a bit more expensive ($55 vs $75) than the VW/Audi ones, but still way cheaper than a VR6 MAF.








It has the same part no. but no VW/Audi logo stamped on it.










_Modified by ROCKnRLR at 10:42 AM 8-28-2003_


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (ROCKnRLR)*

Hopefully the new BOSCH MAFs will be better than the last batch!


----------



## SSheikh (Jul 19, 2000)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (VgRt6)*

When I did my experiment I got mine from http://www.impefax.com. Didn't have to







with any dealers for it. It was $45 plus $5 shipping and showed up at my door 4 days after I ordered it.
Don't think they have it anymore but I did notice this on their website: 
 
Maybe someone with a faster internet connection can investigate into this MAF and who its manufacturer is.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (SSheikh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SSheikh* »_Don't think they have it anymore but I did notice this on their website: 
 
Maybe someone with a faster internet connection can investigate into this MAF and who its manufacturer is. 

Saw them at soem other website, can recall which website though. They were advertised as for TDi engines...A guy from our local meets had problems with his TDi and 2.0L MAFs, I cant recall exactly, I will ask next time he goes to a meet.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (ROCKnRLR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROCKnRLR* »_


















This MAF is in the mail, in route to ElectroMike. He doesnt need it at this time, hopefully he wont need it period.


----------



## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (ROCKnRLR)*

I did what you guys said and ordered one for a 2000 2.0 and used the VIN # with the Y or X (cant remember right now). But when I got it the plugs are different. I will post pics and part numbers later.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (JVWGUY2)*

Do you have a MKIII? The VR6/2.0 swap only works on a MKIV VR6. MKIII MAFs should have a different connector than the MKIVs. More than likely the sensors themselves are completely different as well.


----------



## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (VgRt6)*

Yes mine is a MKIII. Man I thought the MKIV was 24 valve thats why I didnt think about the article title cause its in the 12 valve section.







So are there any tricks for the MKIII?


----------



## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (JVWGUY2)*

Also now that I have ordered the wrong part I need to sale it to get my money back.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (JVWGUY2)*

As far as we know, there are no tricks for the MKIII. Sorry that you ended up buying the wrong part and hope you can sell it. You should have no problem. They seem to be a hot item, especially since it appears that some dealers have caught onto what we are doing and are being more strict about who they sell the MKIV 2.0 MAFs to.


----------



## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (VgRt6)*

No big deal ill just post it for sale later tonight. I am not sure mine is bad anyway. I was just replacing it to be safe. Thanks guys.


----------



## danix (Apr 28, 1999)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (JVWGUY2)*

The part shown above as a replacement MAF is a Mercedes part. 
I wouldn't know if they work on the VR6 or not, but if anyone wants to test them and you are local to NYC shoot me a PM, I have a few in stock.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (danix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *danix* »_The part shown above as a replacement MAF is a Mercedes part. 
I wouldn't know if they work on the VR6 or not, but if anyone wants to test them and you are local to NYC shoot me a PM, I have a few in stock.

this one:








Can u please post the MB part no?


----------



## LIQUIX (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (ROCKnRLR)*

Well the 2.0 maf worked for me. I swapped it yesterday, and today the CEL went away.


----------



## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Generic Bosch 2.0L MAF (LIQUIX)*

I use 2.0 MAF on my VR6 and no more problems.


----------



## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

I need to buy one of these today and the dealer is being such a pain in my ass.
They want $500 for the VR6 MAF and $100 to put it in.

Then I gave them this part number:
ZR-06A-906-461-A
and they want $140 for it.
What can I do?
I need one of these immediately!!!


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

You should be able to buy part# 06A-906-461-A on the internet for a lot less than $140. Try http://www.vwparts.com. They should have it for $80. Also try http://www.oldskoolindustries.com and http://www.parts4vws.com.
Don't pay a dealer to do this. The part is significantly cheaper if you buy it yourself over the net and it takes 5 minutes to install. They're ripping you off.


----------



## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Well there is an actual conspiracy. Parts4VW.com doesn't order these any more because they are being hassled by the supplier and are forced to verify individual VIN numbers in order to order so it is impossible for them to sell cost-effectively.
However they informed me that the dealer list price in the VW parts book says $47.85 and the dealer cost for this same part is only $28.71!
So my dealers are asking anywhere from $70-134 for this part. They are blatanly jacking the price up to gouge people with faulty MAFs.
I called to speak to the parts manager and got nowhere but voicemail and then tried to contact other general managers with the same effect.
Looks like someone is going to get a personal visit and perhaps a loud voice and a stern tone.


----------



## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

So I called one of these places back up and spoke to the parts manager and pointed out what the dealer cost was and the dealer suggested list was and confronted him on jacking the price up. He really didn't have anything to say. He wanted to know how I knew those numbers and then he said well that is just how they make money. And I said right by sticking it to your loyal customers on a product that is a known failure item. He said that if I came in with the correct car and vin number that he could verify that and then sell me the part for the dealer list of $47.85. To which I mentioned that I was a member of VW club and get 10% off and he got frustrated and so we ended the conversation.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

Yeah, it's a frustrating load of crap! That's why normally honest people (including myself) are using VINs that aren't our own to not get taken advantage of and get the parts cheap. The dealers aren't the only ones who can play hardball!


----------



## 5.0 eater (Dec 5, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

One thing that I found out was that some early MKIV 2.0l's used a different MAF. This one is a lot of money. Make sure that you get a 2000.5 or newer serial number so the dealer don't ask too many questions. 
Other than that great find, due to my Eurosport (rustosport) Race CAI I killed three MAF's in two months. One was warrantied the other two I bought. You saved me about $500+ BUCKS. THANKS A LOT.
Pretty soon people are going to get suspicious when we are lurking around their 2.0 litres stealing their vin's. HA HA


----------



## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

well I called VW customer care and started a case number, but unfortunately they don't control dealer pricing they said. So they told me if I got a diagnostics from a VW dealer they would "try to help me out" I am not sure what that means but it would cost me $100 for the diagnostics so I said skip it.
Luckily I got ahold of the parts manager at one of the dealerships and talked some sense into him and he agreed to sell me the part for $37.32 without a VIN number.
So I am going to go pick it up today at lunch.
Do I still have to get someone to clear my CEL code or will it go away on its own?


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

It may take a couple of days but the code will clear away. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Schmitty (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

I ordered one form an online vendor. I got a follow-up e-mail from someone with that company asking for a VIN, and stating that there was a lengthy waiting period (3-4 weeks). It was supposed to be $35 + shipping.
So, if I would have given them a "stolen" VIN, would they be able to find out...or care? There are numerous online car resellers, not to mention sniping one at a dealership or at a mall...


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

Well I got the part from the dealer....it has a special security torx screw that I have to go buy a bit for.
But other than that I hope it works.
No wI have a VR6 what do I have to know about o2 sensors in combination with the MAF failure? Do they need to be replaced? How can I find out? Will they really have any effect on the new MAF?


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

You dont need the security bit. Use locking pliers to grab the screwhead and loosen the screw. The using a small flathead finish to unscrew by jamming the flatead in there.


----------



## Schmitty (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickStick* »_Now I have a VR6 what do I have to know about o2 sensors in combination with the MAF failure? Do they need to be replaced? How can I find out? Will they really have any effect on the new MAF?

You can look in this thread (second post) to find the processes for testing the cat and first O2 sensor (I think), with a vag-com.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (Schmitty)*

Let me guess. The online supplier is 1stvwparts.com. This sounds like their procedure. As far as I know, they only ask for the VIN so that they can replenish their stock. VW is collecting VINs most likely, but the dealer/supplier is not checking them. I bought mine about 7 months ago and things were a lot easier back then. They might be more strict now. I used a VIN from a friend so that if they questioned me I could say I ws buying the part and doing the repair for them. If you're worried then Try and find a friend with a valid VIN.


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## danix (Apr 28, 1999)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

MAF elements are held in place with one of two fasteners:
a) 6 point security torx plus
b) 5 point proprietary torx plus
I can get either one if anyone needs them. Anyone local to NYC is welcome to borrow mine, or come by and I'll swap it out for you.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (danix)*

Oily gases from the VR6 head come back the intake path making the intake mani, TB, and intake hose a mess. I was told by my VW tech friend that it is normal. I wonder if some of this 'reflux' is what actually kills MAFs.


----------



## Schmitty (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_Let me guess. The online supplier is 1stvwparts.com. This sounds like their procedure. As far as I know, they only ask for the VIN so that they can replenish their stock. VW is collecting VINs most likely, but the dealer/supplier is not checking them. I bought mine about 7 months ago and things were a lot easier back then. They might be more strict now. I used a VIN from a friend so that if they questioned me I could say I ws buying the part and doing the repair for them. If you're worried then Try and find a friend with a valid VIN.

Yep, 1stvwparts.com. I wonder is someone in the 2.0 forum will lend me their VIN? Anybody ever start a thread over there to get a list of willing participants...or is that bad


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (Schmitty)*

I know it's long, but I suggest that you read through this ENTIRE thread. There are some "suggestions" on how to get a VIN. The best I've heard is to go to EBAY motors on the web. You should find a VIN as well as the color and number of doors (some dealers have been asking for these as well as "proof" that it's actually your car).


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

why does anyone care?
You are buying a part. They are getting a sale.
Why could they possibly care if you own a 2.0 or not?
It really bugs me...there is no reason or excuse for this behavior.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

They are discounting the price on the 2.0L MAFs and they want to make sure they go to 2.0L owners. They have acknowledge excessive failure rate only for the 2.0L MAFs. We know that the truth is that all of them go bad. Here in the 'tex the ratio of 2.0L owners to the rest of engien times is substancially lower than in the real world.
This is an enthusiast forum board, most of us drive VR6 and 1.8Ts, out in the streets most of the cars are 2.0s and VW cares more about them than they do about us.


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

I hear you but seriously who are they to sit there say that I can't buy a part for another car? IT isn't like I am stopping 2.0 owners from getting their deserved parts......
if VW actually cared about anyone they would replace the MAFs for FREE. Or at the VERY LEAST they would sell the parts for cost. To make profit on a known design defect is absolutely CRIMINAL. I hope they suffer from class action law suit.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

I forgot to mention...These MAFs fly of the shelves, dealers cant get enough of them..that's how bad the situation is. So, for 2.0L owners to have parts available, dealers have to make sure only 2.0L owners get the MAFs.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

It bugs me too, but I kind of understand why they're making it so difficult. The normal prices of MAFs is like $300-450. Of course there is some ridiculous mark-up with these prices, but it's probably not a factor of 10 - the price that they're selling 2.0 MAFs for ($35). VW purposely lowered the prices on MAFs for 2.0 cars because there were so many failures associated with the bad software/O2 sensors, etc that have plagued these cars. They're not making as much profit or possibly none at all when selling these cheap MAFs. Understandably, they want to make sure that only "real" 2.0 owners buy them at the cheap price.
The problem that I have with this whole situation is that they haven't lowered the price on VR6 MAFs as well, the functional part of which ARE EXACTLY THE SAME DAMN THING as the 2.0 MAF. If one is prone to failure, then so is the other one. VW should either lower the price on all their MAF so that we can afford the 2,3 or 6 we need to keep our cars working properly. Or even better (but way too obvious) would be to have Bosch come up with a completely redesigned part and VW sell affected owners ONE of them cheap.
I don't mind VW trying to help certain owners out by making prices cheaper for them on a product with a high failure rate, I just wish they'd realize that other engines are affected as well and offer the same assistance to them as well. Until then, I have no problem acquiring a MAF cheaply by any means (almost) possible.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 11:01 AM 10-17-2003_


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROCKnRLR* »_I forgot to mention...These MAFs fly of the shelves, dealers cant get enough of them..that's how bad the situation is. So, for 2.0L owners to have parts available, dealers have to make sure only 2.0L owners get the MAFs.

I am not saying you are WRONG per-se. However of all 3 dealers in my city they all had 3-10 in stock and not reserved. So they didn't seem to care much about whether I had a 2.0 or not...they just wanted to jack the price up. When I argued with them about the price then they asked for my VIN.
besides I am lucky if I can get an apointment to take my car in for any kind of service with less than a 2 week lead time so that should be enough time for them to order additional parts or get them from another local dealer.


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

again you are a level headed and intelligent person and I agree with you however did you realize that the dealer's COST for this 2.0 MAF is only $28 and if this is a stock item for them they get a 5% discount. So to sell a $28 part for $300 is absolutely INSANE.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickStick* »_However of all 3 dealers in my city they all had 3-10 in stock and not reserved.

Those 3-10 MAFs will probably be gone within a week and as I understand it, VW has made it VERY difficult for dealers to replenish their 2.0 MAF stock ... because of people like us who are tricking them. After all, it's VW who's taking the big hit by selling the MAFs cheap, not the dealers.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 11:07 AM 10-17-2003_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickStick* »_again you are a level headed and intelligent person and I agree with you however did you realize that the dealer's COST for this 2.0 MAF is only $28 and if this is a stock item for them they get a 5% discount. So to sell a $28 part for $300 is absolutely INSANE.

But $28 is the dealer cost only AFTER the price reduction by VWOA. I guarantee you that if you look at the dealer cost of other MAFs (heck, both VW and other car manufacturers) it's much higher.


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

are they taking a hit at all? if they sell to a dealer for $28 how do you know they are losing 1 penny?
the dealers turn around and charge $300-500
VW suggests the retail price to be $47
but the dealers dont' care. I talked to VW they said they can't force dealerships to sell for what they suggest.
VW isn't doing anything to help the 2.0 guys...because they put that in the hands of the greedy dealers.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

Well, if that's the case, which I'm not necessarily convinced of, then VW is not the only one guilty of it. I'm pretty sure that nearly every other car maker/dealer charges the same $300-400 for a MAF.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

$28 is the dealer cost for the 2.0 MAFs, the VR6s are much more expensive for them. 100% profit over dealer cost is not news to me. A friendly service advisor, once let me take a peak at his screen when I asked for the price of the arm rest latch. The part cost $9 and I had to pay $18 for it.
Maybe your dealer has a few of them in stock. My dealer has a backorder list...A couple of months back I asked how long was the list and this was the reply "We are servicing those ordered back in February"
Has anyone gotten around to check if that Bosch part is really available thru Benz dealers?


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

that sucks that your dealers are so backlogged.
Yes I verified the prices with the dealer. $28 cost and $47 suggested retail...dealer was charging $134.....
I can't imagine why the VR6 would be more expensive. It is simply a larger plastic tube.
which brings me to my whole point....quit making us buy this stupid plastic tube! find out which cars use which Bosch MAFs and then simply sell that part for a reasonable price.
It really isn't that difficult.


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

I actually get good pricing at my dealer.....somehow I have a special code in there for me that is a certain percentage off the suggested dealer price....
for example I bought a set of audi grey plastic lug caps and they were going to charge me $2.50 each....I needed 20 of them. That is $50!! The guy sold them all to me for $5 and they still made a huge profit he said.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

I guess, Bosch is taking part of the hit and they sell discounted MAFs to VWoA. There was a tiem when all MAFs were priced well above $250. The ~$50 2.0L MAF is a new thing. VgRt6 took his time and pain, so we could all find out about being able to use the sensor out of a 2.0L MAF in a VR MAF housing.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

Can u get me a set of those lug caps? I have black ones, but my rims are gun metal.







let me know!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickStick* »_
which brings me to my whole point....quit making us buy this stupid plastic tube! find out which cars use which Bosch MAFs and then simply sell that part for a reasonable price.
It really isn't that difficult.

True. If other parts of the 2.0 cars are causing the 2.0 MAFs to go bad then it's understandable that they're only selling 2.0 MAFs cheap. But if the 2.0 MAFs are themselves the weak link, then EVERY Bosch MAF, or at least those for the 2.0 and VR6 should be cheap! It's only fair.
Honestly, it's hard to tell if VW is just stupid, oblivious or intentionally screwing us. Probably a little bit of all three!


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

no insult intended but if a few "kids" on a forum who work on their cars as a hobby can figure this stuff out then the people in charge of designing the car have to be aware of what is going on!


----------



## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)




----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

None taken and I agree ... but I'm not exactly a kid anymore. Still a kid at heart though!


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## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

if you can't print this out and take it to your dealer and get these prices let me know and I will call my dealer and ask them for you.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

Hehehehe, I have the same rims and wheel lock (but black)
















Get me the caps and the tool,







Paypal ok?


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## MIA (Mar 26, 2001)

I doubt the two MAF's are exactly the same part. It was discovered last year that 2.0 MAF's could work in a TDI, but after driving around for a while people began to notice a good deal of smoke being produced out the tailpipe. They looked exactly the same on the outside, but obviously different programing. Several months ago someone came up with the idea of trying a Pierburg MAF, that goes into Merc CDI's as a replacement, again the outside looks the same and the fit is perfect. This solved the smoking issue and power seems to shift a little towards redline. I'm guessing the 2.0 MAF is very similar to that of a VR6. At least as similar as the Peirburg is to that of the Bosch TDI MAF. Anyway, I may try obtaining a 2.0 MAF for my wife's VR6 as she just threw a cell: 
17536 - Fuel Trim: Bank 1 (Mult): System too Lean
P1128 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
btw Danix can get you the 5 lobe torx bit and you can get the 6 lobe bits from 
here:
Good luck guys, and thanks for the heads up on the VR6 problems!


_Modified by MIA at 12:39 PM 10-17-2003_


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (MIA)*

Since it's page 8 and some people may not have read the beginning of this thread ...
The actual sensors in the 2.0 and VR6 MAFs are *IDENTICAL*. I don't understand why people have such a hard time believing this. The part numbers are exactly the same! It's only the housing diameters that are different - this difference is accounted for by the ECM AFTER the air flow measurement is made. Once again ... THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE ACTUAL SENSORS IN MKIV 2.0 AND VR6 MAFs!!!
The part numbers on the 2.0 and TDI MAF sensor are DIFFERENT. There are actual PHYSICAL differences between the two sensors and this is what leads to the smoking in the TDI.
Good choice using the 2.0 MAF in your wife's VR6. It will definitely solve the problem. If it doesn't, I'm sure there are dozens of other VR6 owners on here who would be more than happy to take the MAF off your hands. 


_Modified by VgRt6 at 3:46 PM 10-17-2003_


----------



## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_VW is collecting VINs most likely, but the dealer/supplier is not checking them. I bought mine about 7 months ago and things were a lot easier back then. They might be more strict now. .


Two weeks ago when I buy 2.0 MAF from local dealer they ask me for vin.I find vin on ebay







Car was in florida and I am in NJ so I think that dealer don't check vin's and don't care about this.
also how many VR6 owner read vortex or other forum and know about this story??? maybe few hundreds so I still say that we VR6 enthusiast are NOT cause any problems to 2.0 owners to get their MAfs.
I have my car for 4 years and 45k miles and I replace MAF first time.Not bad.Just wondering how long this new MAF will work.
I never understand why VW is not selling only the sensor.At least peoples who make intake tube don't lose their job












_Modified by Fantomasz at 7:04 PM 10-17-2003_


----------



## Menace (Jun 21, 2001)

*Re: (Fantomasz)*

Just installed MAF #4 (second 2L MAF) yesterday, and it died this afternoon. Not even installed on the car 24hrs! That's got to be a record. 
Just so you know, the sensor was never dropped or mishandled in any way. It went straight from the 2L housing (fresh out of the dealer box it came in) to the VR6 housing and into the car. I guess this answers the questions about whether or not it was something in the 2L car that was causing the MAF's to fail..... IT'S NOT! I can only hope that BOSCH / VW come up with a solution to this ongoing PIMA







!


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (Menace)*

I had once go bad in my way from my house (where I just installed) to the track (the closest one is 110 miles away). So give or take, it lasted about 2hrs,







!


----------



## Menace (Jun 21, 2001)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one that's had a MAF go bad so quickly. It just settles my nerves a little knowing that the MAF's are that bad, and it's not my car killing them...
I guess if I added up the total driving hours before the MAF died, I'm right there with you around the 2hr mark. What a joke eh?


----------



## MK4 GTI (Jul 6, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (hiegear)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hiegear* »_I talked to a parts manager today. I didn't know him so he might have been pulling my leg, but he said that the MAF from a 2.0 and VR6 are the same, BUT they are calibrated different. That is why the Bosch numbers are the same but the VW#'s are different. What will happen is that your car will run way lean and will eventually kill your cat possible ruin a cylinder. If there is any part guy or some one that has hard proof please write in. I understand that he ran his car for so many miles. but the parts guys said it takes about 2 months and then done. I would hold off on a rush just yet. thats my two cents, I hope to god some one proves me wrong. 205 is a big price to pay.

i got the same thing from the guy at liberty vw...is this true ? if its not im really starting to hate vw custy service


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (MK4 GTI)*

It isn't true. There are countless numbers of people now using the 2.0 MAF in their VR6s without any problems. I've had a 2.0 MAF in my VR6 for 14k miles now and the car has been flawless.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

I think this calls for someone with a 2.0L MAf do do a dyno with A/F,


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (ROCKnRLR)*

That would be nice. Any volunteers?


----------



## WideOpenSpaces (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Have the people who have replaced their VR6 MAF sensors with the 2.0 MAF sensors also had CAIs on their cars? Because I was stock for over 2 years and no problems and then after I added my Velocity CAI, I now have the problem with the CEL and poor performance. I will have my 2.0 MAF sensor in a day or two and was wondering if I should just put my stock airbox back in or leave the CAI on? 
As a side note, I have the stock exhaust too, so am I really gaining anything by only having the Velocity CAI? If not mabe I'll just put the stock airbox back in because since adding it I have only noticed a performance loss.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (WideOpenSpaces)*

MAFs die no matter what!


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (WideOpenSpaces)*

My original VR6 MAF lasted 129k miles. The entire car is stock.


----------



## QuickStick (Apr 16, 2001)

I tuned my car immediately. The intake did nothing but rob performance. Of course it wasn't a cold air intake. I removed it. Never had any maf problems.
Later I removed my exhaust and other mods except chip. after a while my MAF went bad.
this was 2.5 years of owning the car and something like 35K miles. and it didn't appear to be related to any tuning parts.
but seriously people have been tuning cars since forever and you don't hear about those parts making the car not work. (except for blown engines. )


----------



## rchong9 (Jul 20, 1999)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

First off thanks for the help guys, VgRt6 and ROCKnRLR






















I finally recieved the MAF and installed it last weekend after almost a 2 month wait. It worked like a charm, after 3 cold-hot cycles the CEL no longer haunts me. What's curious is that I found an oily residue inside the MAF housing and on the MAF itself but nothing in the air box and I just use a regular filter. Any ideas? Is it VW service sabatoge?


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (rchong9)*

More than likely it's oil vapor from the PCV circuit. Seems pretty common - I think that's why cleaning the MAF with isopropyl alcohol works for some people.
Glad the swap worked out for you. Another satisfied customer.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_More than likely it's oil vapor from the PCV circuit. Seems pretty common - I think that's why cleaning the MAF with isopropyl alcohol works for some people.
Glad the swap worked out for you. Another satisfied customer.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yeah, the VR6 regurgitates oil back from the crankhead into the intake. Try cleaning your throttle body every so ofter (30K or 40K miles) because it will become DIRTY from this oil.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

Jose- Have you cleaned your TB yet. My idle is rough sometimes and smooth others and think that the TB might be dirty. My shifter rod was covered in oil and the TB has never been cleaned in 143k miles so my guess is it's oiled up pretty good. I'm afraid of damaging the TB and can't afoord to buy a new one. Any good way of cleaing it without screwing up the butterfly servos?


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

I did it at 50K, I will do it again and 80K and will do it 40K miles after that. It was dirty, grimmy, oily!
I used some carb cleaner that I picked up at the autoparts, some say you can use brake cleaner too. I sprayed it good, flushed all the grime out and let it air dry throughly.
Taking in out is a snap, a few hoses, and 4 allen bolts about 30 mins total work time excluding air drying time.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

Thanks. Did you do any scrubbing or move the butterfly while doing it? Or was the cleaner/solvent engough to get all the crap out of there?


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Sprayed from both sides, IIRC the buttlerfly moved freely when hit with the spray.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROCKnRLR* »_Sprayed from both sides, IIRC the buttlerfly moved freely when hit with the spray.

I've heard that making the butterfly move can hurt the high-precision servos attached to it. Have you noticed any problems after doing it?
I'll probably give it a try and just try and be careful. Thanks again.


----------



## rchong9 (Jul 20, 1999)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Well mine wasn't dripping oily residue but this is shaping into a new DIY from the DIY vets!








How about it? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Sorry about being such a tech leech, this VR6 of ours is sometimes intimidating


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (rchong9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rchong9* »_Well mine wasn't dripping oily residue but this is shaping into a new DIY from the DIY vets!








How about it? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Sorry about being such a tech leech, this VR6 of ours is sometimes intimidating









I'll be putting together a DIY for cleaning the TB as soon as I do it. Should be fairly soon.


----------



## WideOpenSpaces (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: (QuickStick)*

I just got my 2.0 MAF sensor yesterday and am going to put it in my VR6 this weekend. Only question I have is what part of it is the part that goes into the VR6 housing? Its a large tube with screening and then a sensor going into the housing. So I'm guessing you just remove the sensor part with the two screws and put that into the VR6 tube, correct?


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (WideOpenSpaces)*

Exactly! Do a search for archived posts created by me, there is a How-To for this, with pics and everything,


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

Here, I made life easierfor you,








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=827239


----------



## WideOpenSpaces (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

Another question...why do the VR6 MAF sensors seem to be the only ones going bad? I haven't seen the problem as prevalent as on the VR6 compared to the 2.0 and 1.8T? If they are not and we are using the same part as the 2.0, there has got to be something on our engines that messing with the sensors; therefore is there anything we can do to avoid these types of problems? If oil is back feeding into the sensor, isn't there some type of filter we can install that would still allow adequate airflow yet prevent the oil from getting on the sensor?


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (WideOpenSpaces)*

You dont hear 2.0L owners b|tch as much because they dont have to pay as much as we do, and they are nto that many of them around here.








I think some of the 1.8t owners can use the 2.0L sensor (AWW, AWD) and the AWP has a different sensor; however, i've been told that the 2.0L MAf can be hacked to work with the AWP.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (WideOpenSpaces)*

It's the sensors themselves that are the problem. Failing MAFs is also very common on the 2.0 and 1.8T cars. There are a number of similar threads in the 1.8T forum and one of the reasons that the 2.0 MAF is so cheap is that they had so many failures on those cars. TBasically, there's not much you ca do to prevent the new MAF from failing, except hope that Bosch/VW has fixed what was causing to them to fail on the recent ones sold.


----------



## Menace (Jun 21, 2001)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

I've been told by a very reliable source that VW will be releasing a new version of the MAF in the near future and all the problems should be solved. Now I'm sure we've all heard promises like this before, so the proof will be in the pudding. If I get any more info I'll pass it on. (BTW: My source is a friend that owns a VW dealership and a tuning compnay)
Until then, I'll be changing my vanity plates to MAFEATR! (I'm at a run rate of 1 per month!)
Menace


----------



## senseiturtle (Oct 16, 2003)

*need a vin ?*

If you need a VIN, talk to me. I have access to manhiem, the auto auction service many dealers use to get their cars for used car lots. VINs are easy.


----------



## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: need a vin ? (senseiturtle)*

*GO TO AUTOTRADER.COM for all your VIN needs







*


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: need a vin ? (DrTacoElf)*

*UPDATE:* 
For those that haven't heard yet, VW has extended the warranty on some MKIV MAFs to 7 years/70k miles. You should be receiving a letter in the mail regarding this. If you do not receive a letter, you can read about the extension in this thread - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1110941. FYI, the extension also includes reimbursements for those people who purchased new MAFs prior to having 70k miles (no MKIV in the US is currently 7 years old). A reimbursement form should come with your warranty letter. I'm not sure if VW will pay for 2.0 MAFs if you own a VR6 though. Someone give it a try and see what they say.


----------



## senseiturtle (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: need a vin ? (VgRt6)*

I just ordered a 2.0L sensor, and someone responded by email. He says that the part is on national 'critical backorder', and that it'd be 2 weeks before he gets any in. 
I would obviously pursue the warranty route first, but since I didn't get the car through a dealership, it'd be hell to trace back my warranty info. Its only 35 bucks anyway... 
I seriously doubt they would pay for a 2.0L... they probably just switch out the entire assembly anyway.


----------



## danix (Apr 28, 1999)

*Re: need a vin ? (senseiturtle)*

If any VR6 people in the NYC area want to try the Pierburg/Mercedes sensor, let me know. This is not a sale pitch, I genuinely want to know if these will work for you guys.


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: need a vin ? (danix)*

These are log runs of datablock 002, if you are out of warranty (7yr/70K), a 2.0L MAF is still a solution. Dont know about if there is going to be a price change in them though.


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: need a vin ? (ROCKnRLR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ROCKnRLR* »_These are log runs of datablock 002, if you are out of warranty (7yr/70K), a 2.0L MAF is still a solution. Dont know about if there is going to be a price change in them though.










To expand on what Jose said ...
The above graph shows airflow measurements made using a VAG-COM for the same VR6 car (Jose's ride) using a "real" VR6 MAF and the 2.0 MAF sensor in the VR6 housing. Runs were performed back-to-back-to-back-to-back. Each curve contains the data points for two runs and the curve fit is a simple "smooth" fit.
The graph confirms what we've suspected all along ... *the VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are IDENTICAL.* Below 3500 RPMS, the airflow readings are virtually indistinguishable. Above 3500 RPMs, the reading from the VR6 MAF is ~1% to 1.5% greater than the 2.0 MAF. This difference is not significant and could be attributed to a number of things, including statistical error and/or the aging/contamination of the 2.0 sensor (the 2.0 sensor has been in the car for a while and the VR6 MAF is brand new).
As Jose already said, if you're out of the 70k warranty, the 2.0 MAF is still a good option ... as long as they keep the price low.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 10:28 PM 12-3-2003_


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: need a vin ? (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_As Jose already said, if you're out of the 70k warranty, the 2.0 MAF is still a good option ... as long as they keep the price low.

Not that I know that things like what I am going to say happen but I think it is a real possibility if you are of of warranty:
Befriend a service advisor and/or tech (if you dont befriend one already) and maybe they can 'warranty' a MAF for a car that they have in for service and turn it to you.
Like I just said, this example is just a figment of my imagination.


----------



## FireFerum (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: need a vin ? (ROCKnRLR)*

All right, so my MAF failed due to "dirty air filter." At least that's what the dealership said. Well I replaced the filter myself a little later only to find out that it was not that dirty at all. It was just fall dust in there and whatnot. Anyway, the real issue was the MAF because they wanted to charge the well known price of about $300. Having done Christmas shopping that was not a luxury I could afford. So after reading this post I decided that I should try the 2.0 MAF Sensor. I bought the whole thing, with housing for $55. There are two five point tamper proof torx screws in there which are impossible to remove and so using a pair of pliers and some 15 minutes I succeeded in taking the old one off and putting the new one on. I now have two pinches with bandaids on from the stupid pliers. That's another story though as I was in a hurry to get the MAF sensors in and out. I especially took a long look at the sensors. There is only one difference. The gasket color. One of them is bluish green, the other is just green. I don't know if this is from the heat color loss or whatnot but that is the only difference. Now, to get to the point, the two sensors are identical. And since I didn't want to take a chance, I had VAG-COM tests done immediately. There were absolutely no errors and no differences. Everything was good to go. So here is another satisfied guy who saved some money at the price of two cuts. Oh and I also bought new screws because I am never putting in tamper proof screws again! After all, how else am I supposed to tamper with it? I can take photos if you guys want, but I doubt that by now you don't believe







Happy Holidays everyone!


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## senseiturtle (Oct 16, 2003)

i installed a 2.0 MAF some time ago, as posted above.... zero problems whatsoever after a month or so.


----------



## danix (Apr 28, 1999)

*Re: (senseiturtle)*

VW has since extended the warranty on the MAF sensors.
Also, if anyone needs the special bits to get the screws out, I have them.


----------



## OneQuikMofo (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: (danix)*

so the 2.0 MAF will fix the prob in my mom's MKIV 99 Jetta VR6?


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (OneQuikMofo)*

Yes, the 2.0 MAF (06A-906-461-A) will work in a '99 MKIV VR6. If the car has less than 70k miles, then the dealer will replace the MAF for free though (with a VR6 MAF). If the car has over 70k miles, you'll need to buy a 2.0 MAF yourself.


----------



## GTIVR6PL (Nov 26, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_Yes, the 2.0 MAF (06A-906-461-A) will work in a '99 MKIV VR6. If the car has less than 70k miles, then the dealer will replace the MAF for free though (with a VR6 MAF). If the car has over 70k miles, you'll need to buy a 2.0 MAF yourself.

1) what if your below 70K with no warrenty, will they still do it, prob. not right?
2) this whole 2.0 thing is great, saved so many people money and so on, what lead you to take apart your MAF and compare with a 2.0 and so on..... j/w


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (GTIVR6PL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIVR6PL* »_
1) what if your below 70K with no warrenty, will they still do it, prob. not right?
2) this whole 2.0 thing is great, saved so many people money and so on, what lead you to take apart your MAF and compare with a 2.0 and so on..... j/w

















1) Good question. I'm not sure, but it's worth calling VWOA to find out.
2) I needed a new MAF and didn't have $300 to spend on a new VR6 one. I read a thread on here which said that the sensors were the same, but no one gave any proof. I cracked the MAFs open to see for myself and lo and behold, they really were the same.
I'm glad it's helped so many people out. I would have never guessed that this would be valuable for so many people. I just noticed today that this thread has almost as many views as the VR6 FAQ thread. That's pretty incredible!


----------



## 5.0 eater (Dec 5, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

KEEP UP ALL OF THE GOOD WORK GARY! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## RcrVdub (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: (5.0 eater)*

So all in all, these mods are for only MKIV vr6's. There are no tricks of any kind to use one on the MK3 vr6.


----------



## MastaVR6 (Jun 10, 2003)

Cuz no-one seems to search on MAF info - bump!


----------



## FireFerum (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: (MastaVR6)*

I'm checking in and letting everyone know that so far the MAF has not given me any trouble. It works just like the one that came stock. I will soon put in an AEM CAI that I got for my b-day and I will let you all know how the MAF is after a few weeks with the CAI. I don't think it should be any problem but just want to add to this researching thread.


----------



## GTIVR6PL (Nov 26, 2002)

*Re: (FireFerum)*

i just got my 2.0 sensor.... i know ive seen somewhere on how to take off the torx security screws... only im not sure where... any one got ideas??? needle nose pliers?? think that will do?











_Modified by GTIVR6PL at 1:51 AM 2-20-2004_


----------



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (GTIVR6PL)*

Vise Grips


----------



## GTIVR6PL (Nov 26, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Got it, thanks man... I also read the 2nd page of this thread and found the answer there.... sry didnt search.. had not time ... thanks


----------



## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (GTIVR6PL)*

Anyone have a DYNO after they installed a 2.0?


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (DrTacoElf)*

I think no one has.
My intake rotary valve is rattling, so I wont dyno until the situation is remedied. I know that putting a new one will solve the problem...for a few K miles, so I willl wait for a more durable solution (VgRt6! We are waiting for the prototype!)


----------



## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

Ok i just shelled out $222 for a true VR6 maf. Installed it at the dealership







. Unhooked battery for 15 min, rehooked battery put key in ignition and turned forward but didn't 'start car (5 min) and started car and let it idle for $5. 
First impression: Me thinks i wasted $222








Would it be unwise to do a dyno today (shoudl i give the car time to adapt to the new MAF). I just had a dyno yesterday with 158 WHP and 180 TQ


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (DrTacoElf)*

the car should fully adapt after a few miles of driving in all gears, engine loads, etc. If you ahve driven it enough, (couple of WOT runs in 2nd/3rd) and redyno in 3rd. You should be fine.


----------



## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

Ok sounds good i think i'll dyno today if they have a spot open









So you say i should dyno in 3rd?
My last dyno was in 4th. What effect if any would this have on the numbers?


----------



## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (DrTacoElf)*

None, since 4th is tollar, the power run will take long and the dyno plot with be wider. But is the same power put down to the wheels. There is this misconception that u should run the car in 4th because it is closer to 1:1 on and on. ... I have dynoed my car once back to back in 3rd adn 4th gears, same result.


----------



## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (ROCKnRLR)*

More Data


----------



## 5.0 eater (Dec 5, 2002)

*Re: (DrTacoElf)*

The thing that you guys are missing is that the Part #'s on both sensors are the same so therefore they have to be the same. The only difference between the two is the housing. I'd say the 4 HP difference between the dyno runs was due to the 2.0 sensor in your car being out of wack.
If you want to get a true HP number then you will have to get a new 2.0 sensor, put it in a VR6 housing and then do the dyno runs between the genuine sensor and the 2.0 sensor back to back.
Another thing that could have affected the dyno numbers is the fact that the temperature, humidity, or barometric pressure could have been different between the two days. Most people think that the only thing that affects dyno numbers is temperature but that is wrong, it is a combination of the three variables I listed above. Since you have nearly exact HP and Torque curves until about 4500RPM it may be due to the differences between the two days and not the sensor. If you want to get a definitive answer then go back to the dyno with a new 2.0 sensor, your old 2.0 sensor and the new VR6 sensor and do three pulls allowing about 10-15 minutes cooldown in between each run.
One final thing that could have some affect on the numbers is the fact that the OEM VR6 MAF's have a Bosch sensor in the housing and a lot of the replacement 2.0 MAF's have what looks like a Generic sensor (The Part #'s are printed on it in dot letters that are hard to discern) in them that has no manufacturer listed on it.
Interpret this how you will.
Jamie




_Modified by 5.0 eater at 12:01 PM 2-21-2004_


----------



## jsnVR6 (Feb 5, 2001)

*Re: (5.0 eater)*

If I was ripped off by VW then I would set up a class action lawsuit agains VWoA for trying to exploit the VR6 owners for more money than the 2.0 people.
After all, it is illegal to sell something for more money 2 one person than another. That would be discrimination.










_Modified by JsnVR6Corrado at 11:28 AM 3-22-2004_


----------



## arkoracing (Mar 21, 2006)

*MAF for German 1996 VR6*

Hi! The BOSH part number of my maf is 565 23 2 A. Are any 2.0 MAF with that part number? The VW part number of the housing of my maf is 021 906 462 (OBDI)
My Best Regards


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## pilotboy17 (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: MAF for German 1996 VR6 (arkoracing)*

I know i'm late. But thanks for your help on this matter! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: MAF for German 1996 VR6 (pilotboy17)*

this was useful, so i'll post to push it back to page #1


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## PUNCHY (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

I'm not sure if it was clarified or not but the MKIII 2.0 and VR6 sensors are in fact different. Pulled them out today and unfreakinfortunately they had different part numbers on them.








Now I need a hug.


----------



## thriftybrown (Apr 25, 2008)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

MAF sensor on my 1996 VR6 says Bosch; stamped in #s are 569 25 3 B and 104 … I think these are serial #s. the numbers on the housing are
0 280 217 512 and 021 806 462A Where would I find the bosch PN on the sensor? do I have to take off the snap rings & remove the metal casting to find the sensor part number?


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## stapleface (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (thriftybrown)*

would this wonderful little trick work in a 96 vr passat? obdII


----------



## stapleface (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (stapleface)*


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## DUBBED-OUT (Mar 21, 2008)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (stapleface)*

I did this last week on my 00 VR6 12v. I also replaced my precat o2 sensor. & yet the problem is still as im driving the car will lose power & the speedo lights up like a X-mas tree (ASR,CE) & so on. Then Emmission Workshop.








Can someone help me, Please.
I did read every page in this thread


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## Beersix (Oct 19, 2007)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (DUBBED-OUT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUBBED-OUT* »_I did this last week on my 00 VR6 12v. I also replaced my precat o2 sensor. & yet the problem is still as im driving the car will lose power & the speedo lights up like a X-mas tree (ASR,CE) & so on. Then Emmission Workshop.








Can someone help me, Please.
I did read every page in this thread









Same problem here.. try cleaning the TB and airfilter.


----------



## FastTurbo 2.0 (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (Beersix)*

I have a good VR6 MKIV Maf for sale if anyone needs it. 75.00 shipped.


----------



## llanowar (Jun 26, 2008)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

i have vr6 corrado 93 with a 6 wire maf which wire is what and where do they go for instance input signal ? call me 518-361-7250 my names dustin i have a vrt


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## GLX-treme (May 9, 2009)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (llanowar)*

will this work on a 98 jetta glx vr6?


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## badufay (Mar 17, 2006)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (GLX-treme)*

Seeing how there seem to be a lot of MAF experts here, will the 2.0L AEG MAF also work in the ABA 2.0L
-Ben


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## MILESisBROKE (Dec 28, 2009)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (badufay)*

I put a new intake on my vr and ever since it idles very low and when i push the clutch in it stalls out sometimes, ive heard that it is an issue with the MAF. if so what do i have to do to fix this problem?


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## quirmche (Mar 4, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (VgRt6)*

Love this sticky, great work!!!!
My 2004 VR6 threw a P0102 code without any symptoms. 
Actually, loaned my car to the wifey and got it back with the MIL illuminated. Anyway, used an Actron reader to determine code, then erased it to see if it would come back. It hasn't and still no symptoms.
I'm still concerned about the MAF, should I be?
Also, does the sensor compatibility with the 2.slow still hold true today?


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (quirmche)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quirmche* »_Also, does the sensor compatibility with the 2.slow still hold true today?

It's the same old thing.....still works!


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## quirmche (Mar 4, 2002)

*Re: Proof that Mk. IV VR6 and 2.0 MAF sensors are identical (quirmche)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quirmche* »_Love this sticky, great work!!!!
My 2004 VR6 threw a P0102 code without any symptoms. 
Actually, loaned my car to the wifey and got it back with the MIL illuminated. Anyway, used an Actron reader to determine code, then erased it to see if it would come back. It hasn't and still no symptoms.
I'm still concerned about the MAF, should I be?
Also, does the sensor compatibility with the 2.slow still hold true today?

So, should I still be concerned about the MAF even though the MIL has not re-illuminated?


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## VR612vFTW (Sep 6, 2010)

I heard that putting a 1.8t MAF in a VR6 adds a few HP but I can't find the thread anymore. Anyone know about this?


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## Gamelockaz (May 22, 2008)

PUNCHY said:


> I'm not sure if it was clarified or not but the MKIII 2.0 and VR6 sensors are in fact different. Pulled them out today and unfreakinfortunately they had different part numbers on them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just because the part numbers are different? Has anyone tried putting a MKIII 2.0 MAF sensor into a MKIII VR6 housing and seeing if it works. The whole different part number could be Volkswagen being tricky.

-Zach


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## vwmaniac16vr6 (Nov 17, 2004)

the sensors for mk3 are the same just the housings are different size, excluding tdi. just make sure you have the tamper proof torques bits to remove and swap housings


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## GMonkey (Nov 16, 2004)

Just to let everybody know, the price for a 2000 2.0 MAF is now $291.00 plus tax at Martingrove VW. I don't get how the prices quadruple over the yrs but thats what it is now. 

Didn't bother checking the price for the VR6 but it's probably a frickin million bucks...

What a scam...


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## Captain Bavaria (Jun 4, 2016)

In the thread starter the Bosch MAF sensor (00C 2G2 032) was mentioned as identical to the sensor installed in the OEM MAF housing. However most of the discussion revolves around using the VW-sourced (also made by Bosch?) MAF sensor for the 2.0 engine. The Bosch sensor (00C 2G2 032) is not being mentioned later in this thread as far as I can tell. Has anybody installed the Bosch sensor (00C 2G2 032), and can that one be purchased without jumping through any hoops unlike with the sensor for the 2.0?

So I don't only ask questions, I will offer a tidbit of information regarding the tamperproof bolts on MAF sensor housing: on my MY 2000 it requires a tamperproof Torx Plus T-25. As opposed to regular Torx, which has 6 lobes, Torx Plus has only 5 lobes.


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