# starting a 12v VR turbo build



## vee-dubjettavr6 (Aug 23, 2007)

I'm having some issues navigating the updated site, otherwise I probably wouldn't be asking this. I'm interested in puttin a turbo on my 2000 jetta 12v vr6. However I'd like most of the power to come naturally, the turbo is just something a little extra. I would like to do things right, forged pistons and rocker arms, arp hardware, new gaskets all around, pretty much an engine rebuild. Mainly I'm interesed in getting the Stage III big cam head with the 42mm intake and 34mm exhaust valves. I'd also like to have the block bored to a larger displacement. When I turbo it I don't want to boost too much, I want this to be a *reliable and long lasting build.* That is my main goal here. 

So the question is, what all am i going to need for a long lasting reliable turbo vr? Whats with the compression reduction head spacer? Will this be a NEED? How about injectors? And the inline fuel pump kit? Is that a must? Any info is appreciated... Im a diesel engine mechanic so I understand how turbos themselves work, but I've never attempted to put a turbo on a gasoline N/A engine.


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

To build a motor that provides naturally aspirated power and adding a turbo for that little extra power is a double edged sword. You should either stay NA or go Forced induction, not a mix of both. NA motors like compression and larger cams to make power. Turbo motors like lower compression and smaller cams. A hp goal needs to be in place before you start planning your build. If you are looking for 300-400 hp, just build it as a turbo engine. If you want 200-300 hp, then, stay with a stock motor and a Stage 1 turbo or supercharger system. There is no need for bigger valves in a turbo motor, valves that are necked down such as Supertech, in stock diameters will be more than enough for most all applications. We made 600+ hp to the wheels with a VR6 head with mild porting and stock diameter Supertech valves. Unless you are going all out for the most power and the best of the best when it comes to a VR6, stay close to stock. Some people go to the extreme and have little to show for power, only a high price tag and wasted money. It you want reliabilty and long lasting, stick to stock parts as much as possible (use 2.9 cast pistons if you overbore). They work fine with low boost with proper tuning (C2 or other). There are enough VR6 turbos out there that follow the above and run perfect and give little trouble. There are also ones that do not follow the above and have been built over and over again with the same failed results. Just my 2 cents.


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## vee-dubjettavr6 (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks i'll take that all into concideration. For now I'm only lookin for 200-300, mostly high 2's, round 280 or so. Like i said my biggest concern is reliability. If I can do that i'll be set... Thanks for the info.


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## BoostedDubVR6T420 (Dec 4, 2009)

The VR6 does not have rocker arms, BTW.


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## vw_owner (Dec 19, 2008)

a VRT with those kind of goals can be done without all of that machine work you want to get done. keep the displacement at 2.8L, and you really won't need new pistons or even rods. i know of some VRT's on fully stock bottom ends running 500+hp and still holding, but at 500+ i would def. change all of that out. since you are already doing a full rebuild, go ahead and replace all of your bolts with ARP studs (mains, rods, and head studs) get the 9:1 comp. C2 head spacer, do a mild porting of the intake and exhaust runners, gut out your upper intake manifold to make a 2.9L clone, and slap on a kinetics turbo kit and you will be more than satisfied. but if your going to do a "FULL" rebuild, it gets costly. just make sure you do a full chain job and change everything for cooling


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## vee-dubjettavr6 (Aug 23, 2007)

vw_owner said:


> a VRT with those kind of goals can be done without all of that machine work you want to get done. keep the displacement at 2.8L, and you really won't need new pistons or even rods. i know of some VRT's on fully stock bottom ends running 500+hp and still holding, but at 500+ i would def. change all of that out. since you are already doing a full rebuild, go ahead and replace all of your bolts with ARP studs (mains, rods, and head studs) get the 9:1 comp. C2 head spacer, do a mild porting of the intake and exhaust runners, gut out your upper intake manifold to make a 2.9L clone, and slap on a kinetics turbo kit and you will be more than satisfied. but if your going to do a "FULL" rebuild, it gets costly. just make sure you do a full chain job and change everything for cooling


I heard that the 12v heads are really restrictive as far as letting air in and out. Thats why I was interested in doin the 42mm intake nd 34mm exhaust valves. as far as borin out the block i'm not as set in with that. This thing is gonna be a daily driver for a while but I want to gradually prepair it for top notch power.... I wanna make somethin you don't see very often which is why I was interested in increasing displacement n replacing pistons and rods. I just had my timin chains changed last week so I wont be worried bout that for a while at least. I'll look in to the 2.9l clone, not sure what that is. Thanks for all of your info. I'll keep your suggestions in mind.


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## vee-dubjettavr6 (Aug 23, 2007)

BoostedDubVR6T420 said:


> The VR6 does not have rocker arms, BTW.




lol i know, I been workin on a Cummins at work for the past 2 weeks so im not thinkin straight with this. I ment to say connecting rods haha


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## vw_owner (Dec 19, 2008)

vee-dubjettavr6 said:


> I heard that the 12v heads are really restrictive as far as letting air in and out. Thats why I was interested in doin the 42mm intake nd 34mm exhaust valves. as far as borin out the block i'm not as set in with that. This thing is gonna be a daily driver for a while but I want to gradually prepair it for top notch power.... I wanna make somethin you don't see very often which is why I was interested in increasing displacement n replacing pistons and rods. I just had my timin chains changed last week so I wont be worried bout that for a while at least. I'll look in to the 2.9l clone, not sure what that is. Thanks for all of your info. I'll keep your suggestions in mind.


the point i was trying to get accross is that even with the restrictions of the 12V head, those power goals are still 100% reachable without any major problems. you have to take into consideration that when you remove material like that, you are taking away the temper and strength of the metal piece you are working on. my first VRT was a 3.1L, and my cylinder walls were so thin. sure it gave me great HP numbers and even better 1/4 mile times, but it was un-reliable as hell. all of that friction will eventually just make that thin metal so hot, it is going to let go. maybe boring it out to a 2.9, possibly a 3.0L, but i wouldn't unless i was going for big power. as for the 2.9L clone intake manifold, that is just a typical 2.8L manifold like you find on every VR6 in north america, and cut away a portion on the back and box it in. i'm pretty sure there is a DIY somewhere around here, but i have made quite a few myself. pretty inexpensive HP gain IMHO


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## vee-dubjettavr6 (Aug 23, 2007)

vw_owner said:


> the point i was trying to get accross is that even with the restrictions of the 12V head, those power goals are still 100% reachable without any major problems. you have to take into consideration that when you remove material like that, you are taking away the temper and strength of the metal piece you are working on. my first VRT was a 3.1L, and my cylinder walls were so thin. sure it gave me great HP numbers and even better 1/4 mile times, but it was un-reliable as hell. all of that friction will eventually just make that thin metal so hot, it is going to let go. maybe boring it out to a 2.9, possibly a 3.0L, but i wouldn't unless i was going for big power. as for the 2.9L clone intake manifold, that is just a typical 2.8L manifold like you find on every VR6 in north america, and cut away a portion on the back and box it in. i'm pretty sure there is a DIY somewhere around here, but i have made quite a few myself. pretty inexpensive HP gain IMHO


Understood. Thanks for the info man. I'll see if I can get the DIY for that too. :thumb:


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

this is what I know 6 PSI no intercooler, 8-10 PSI with an intercooler after 10 PSI drop the compression and upgrade your fuel pump....and install a wideband to make sure you dont run lean


now I seen people run 12 PSI on stock compression with meth etc, etc but the real question is how long can that setup last for....


I never had a vrt but after a year of reading on here and maximum boost book from the library and asking alot of question i'm starting with 6 psi than going all the way to 10 PSI with an intercooler my goal would be 280-300 and thats it after that I really just cant afford it money wise... and being my car is an 86 vr it's pretty damn fast on the streets I dont need to get to work in 6 seconds and kill my self on the way down there.... or doing a 100 MPH in a 25 MPH zone ahahhaha


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

also make sure you do your motor mounts, control arm bushings, etc, etc, before you go turbo, do your water pump hoses etc, etc 

dont just as a turbo to a car that has 100k+ on it.... 


also upgrade your tranny to LSD and replace any synchros that are worn out on the car..


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

280 whp?

C2 30# setup, stock compression, intercooled, Walbro in-line for safety, ~10 psi on 91-93 octane, more w/ race gas or meth.

Headwork/building an engine would be throwing $$ out the window for your goals.

I ran 11.83 @ 119mph w/ that setup, slicks, and a couple hundred pounds of weight reduction.

This is my 3rd year of being turbo'd. ZERO engine related issues and I'm revving to 7k at the drag strip.

Use good quality parts, install them properly, and make sure the engine is in perfect running condition before you go FI.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

dubbinmk2 said:


> this is what I know 6 PSI no intercooler, 8-10 PSI with an intercooler after 10 PSI drop the compression and upgrade your fuel pump....and install a wideband to make sure you dont run lean


Those are good "safe" numbers. With 93 octane I had no issues adding 2psi to each of those so 8 non ic and 12 ic, but I would do that more in cooler weather so ~70's and below.


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## 98mkiiigtivr6 (May 24, 2010)

stock 98 vr6, threw a cone filter and exhaust. 2 years later of planning, boosted on 15 lbs for 50k miles up to 195k. It failed when i was driving like a grandma, picked up some Pho and on the way home, my Rod bearing gave out and wedged itself under the other side.... luckily i was pulling into my street right then.


145k I/E then said, moar powa.

bought :
Short runner log w/highflow rail ( from a custom builder in Canada) $400
stg2 #42 green tops/C2 software( from another Canadian ) $800
diy turbo kit from ebay - 600
t3/4 60 a/r from godspeed turbos - 400 (after 10k hard on that turbo it finally blew the exhaust oil seal...yay)
255 inline pump(didnt install) 
FPR ( set at 50 psi with rising vacuum ~ +10 psi)
A/F guage spliced into my second O2 sensor

Software was tuned for low comp. when i ran it at stock comp (Spacer was being shipped) and thus i test drove it..... well, picked my buddy up and took it around the block. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBwwJAstnvM was a couple days later before i got the spacer in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBOoHIC1jO8 open downpipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUSo10T-ZIQ 185k when it was finally cold enough where my car liked it and before that video i smoked a "stage 4" sti... lmao off the line with his 2step launch and i took off like so.

Read rich throughout the drive but i spun first into second, let off a little and punched it. 140 came, a little to quick and it felt like i was about to take off from the runway...
dropped him off and told my pops to get in for a ride, lets just say his eyes said it all. 

195k miles (now) its been sitting and now am getting a rebuilt engine in the next week.


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## NOTORIOUS VR (Sep 25, 2002)

rhussjr said:


> To build a motor that provides naturally aspirated power and adding a turbo for that little extra power is a double edged sword. You should either stay NA or go Forced induction, not a mix of both. NA motors like compression and larger cams to make power. Turbo motors like lower compression and smaller cams..


None of this is even remotely true.


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