# W12 vs. V8 - Pros, Cons, General Comparison Discussion



## Chuckdoc (Jul 25, 2008)

*W12 vs. V8*

This has probably come up before, but I'd be interested in hearing from you guys of the W12 vs. V8 NAR Phaetons. Are you glad you have the type you have? Do you now wish you would've found a W12? Is the mpg difference a big issue? Maintenance? I like the W12 but I've seen some good deals on V8s... Worth waiting for the 12? 
Let me know!
Chuckdoc


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## VWVictoria (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Chuckdoc)*

Well for me it was kind of go big or go home. The W12 Phaetons in NA are about as close as you can get to a Bentley CFS without spending 100k and it is such a sleeper, more power than you will ever need and most people see it as a big Passat.
As for fuel, these cars are not cheap to run, nor are they cheap to maintain, get the "real driver warranty"
Jeff


_Modified by VWVictoria at 12:04 PM 8-10-2008_


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Chuckdoc)*

First of all - they are both great cars! The V8 has plenty of power, is more fuel efficient, and sounds great. I would have happily bought one when I was shopping, but I happened to stumble upon a W12 locally and it was love at first sight.
The W12 is not as fuel efficient, especially when you're not on the highway. It has a sound reminiscent of a turbine (but a very quiet one), which some may find less exciting than the V8's. The W12's transmission shifts almost imperceptibly, making for an eerie gliding sensation, and thus often shocking the driver when he looks down at the speedometer.








Also I think, but don't know for sure, that the repair costs associated with a W12 are potentially higher, but based on everything I've read on this forum, and based on my 6 months of ownership, both engines and transmissions (with a few exceptions) have been very reliable. Even so, a comprehensive extended warranty is a must for either version, since neither is cheap when it comes to repairing even the smallest of items.
All that having been said, you will have to pry my W12 from my cold dead hands. I've read on this forum of many a V8 owner wishing they had a W12, but I have yet to run across a post expressing the opposite.








As a testament to the unnatural attachment to our Phaetons that some of us here have expressed - there are a few who have talked about being buried in their Phaetons!
In fact, I would consider it so long as the cemetery agrees to hook up a battery maintainer so the incredible stereo will keep playing for eternity (by all means get the 270 watt version if you're an audiophile) . Also, where I'm probably going the air conditioned seats will come in handy.








In my humble opinion, your enjoyment of your Phaeton probably depends more on finding a clean well maintained vehicle, than which engine you get. Good luck in your search.

_Modified by remrem at 7:19 AM 8-8-2008_

_Modified by remrem at 8:56 AM 8-8-2008_


_Modified by remrem at 8:58 AM 8-8-2008_


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## paddyh (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (remrem)*

What he said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by paddyh at 7:15 AM 8-8-2008_


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Chuckdoc)*

Chuck, 
I've never driven a V8, so I can only speak to what I know, the W12. I love the extra length of the body, the subtle strength of the engine, the extra appointments of the cabin. There is really nothing like it (well, some may argue for the Bentley).
The in town gas mileage is minimal. If you have to be concerned with the fuel economy of any given vehicle, then that vehicle is the wrong car for you. When I a cruising the interstate at 85 mph the last thing I am thinking about is my fuel consumption and my carbon footprint. I will leave those concerns to the Prius crowd.
The W12 is one special motor carriage.


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_First of all - they are both great cars! The V8 has plenty of power, is more fuel efficient, and sounds great. I would have happily bought one when I was shopping, but I happened to stumble upon a W12 locally and it was love at first sight.
The W12 is not as fuel efficient, especially when you're not on the highway. It has a sound reminiscent of a turbine (but a very quiet one), which some may find less exciting than the V8's. The W12's transmission shifts almost imperceptibly, making for an almost eerie gliding sensation, and thus often shocks the driver when he looks down at the speedometer.








Also I think, but don't know for sure, that the repair costs associated with a W12 are potentially higher, but based on everything I've read on this forum, and based on my 6 months of ownership, both engines and transmissions (with a few exceptions) have been very reliable. Even so, a comprehensive extended warranty is almost a must for either version, since neither is cheap when it comes to repairing even the smallest of items.
All that having been said, you will have to pry my W12 from my cold dead hands. I've read on this forum of many a V8 owner wishing they had a W12, but I have yet to run across a post expressing the opposite.








As a testament to the unnatural attachment to our Phaetons that some of us here have expressed - there are a few who have talked about being buried in their Phaetons!
In fact, I would consider it so long as the cemetery agrees to hook up a battery maintainer so the incredible stereo will keep playing for eternity (by all means get the 270 watt version if you're an audiophile) . Also, I think where I'm probably going the air conditioned seats will come in handy.








In my humble opinion, your enjoyment of your Phaeton probably depends more on finding a clean well maintained vehicle, than which engine you get. Good luck in your search.

_Modified by remrem at 7:19 AM 8-8-2008_

Seconded! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Chuckdoc)*

I drove both W12 and V8 cars before I purchased my W12.
I chose the W12 because the engine was quieter - that was the main motivation. The secondary motivation was that the W12 cars come 'fully equipped' with options. It is, of course, possible to get a V8 car that is fully optioned out, pretty much identical to the W12, missing only the infra-red resistant glass and a few other rather small items.
Within the range of what is legal and what is useful in North America, engine power is pretty much equal. They both accelerate at about the same speed from 0 to 60 MPH. The V8 has a very competent 6 speed transmission that manages power output a little better than the 5 speed in the W12, hence the reason that at North American speeds (under 80 MPH), there is not much of a performance advantage to the W12.
At very high speeds (Europe, from 100 MPH and up), the benefit of the additional horsepower of the W12 becomes significant. In North America, that's a non-issue. It's a bit like buying a five-seat car when you are a single guy - whether it has 5 seats or 4 is of no interest to you when you consider that you will rarely carry more than 2 people in the car.
Michael


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## paddyh (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (PanEuropean)*

For me - the turbine smoothness of the engine was like nothing I had experienced before. I was shopping for an Audi A8 when I ran across the Heliochrome silver W12 in Denver that I think is now in Canada (VWVictoria - does that sound right?). The engine smoothness was transforming.
As I pursued my shopping journey, I also had the opportunity to drive a couple of V8 machines in CA. The experience was also excellent, but I kept coming back to the quiet refined interior on the W12 versus what I would describe as the definite V8 burble on the other cars. 
When I found my W12 in Monterrey with only 3,600 miles on it, I was hooked, and jumped at that chance.
Patrick


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## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (paddyh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paddyh* »_... I kept coming back to the quiet refined interior on the W12 versus what I would describe as the definite V8 burble on the other cars....

That's funny, I like that 'burble'. But the more I read about the W12, the more I think I should give one a try - whenever I cross paths with one...


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## Solipsism12 (Feb 18, 2008)

Mine is a 2005 V8, and I believe it is as fully optioned as could be had in the US, with the exception of the 4-seat package (figuring since I'm driving and not sitting in the back seat, why have a car this size if I can't put the whole crew in it, but the 4-seaters are sure nice, too). When I purchased mine, there wasn't a W12 readily available locally and I was and am perfectly satisfied with the V8 for power and noise level. As regards fuel economy, per the EPA website, the difference is not huge - 14-town/21-hwy for the V8 and 11-town/17-hwy for the W12 - so maybe a 5.5 gallon difference to go the same distance every tankful - would the additional $20 per tankful-distance really be an issue if you wanted the 12 over the 8? All that said, I noticed yesterday that the Autobarn had a 2005 coucou gray / sonnenbeige 4-seater V8 in their listings, which would sure be tempting to me if I didn't already own the one I have!


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (remrem)*

"As a testament to the unnatural attachment to our Phaetons that some of us here have expressed - there are a few who have talked about being buried in their Phaetons!"
As to this above- I am reminded of the two bums riding a freight, and passing by a cemetery when one said to the other "see that over there- they are burying that guy in his Cadillac" ---and the other replied "yea, ain't that livin'"


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## dsolis (Aug 4, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Chuckdoc)*

Hi CHuck, I have the 2004 V8 phaeton, and it is by far an incredible car. But i do miss some of the upgrades available on the W12. As far as engines, the smooth driving of a 12 cylinder engine is amazing. Two things I would consider are
1. can you get a W12 with the extended warranty (most that i have seen are over 50k miles and no longer eligible) 
2. Speed. I like to drive, and often find myself doing excessively high speeds without realizing quite how fast I am going. one should not underestimate how secluded you are in the phaeton cabin, and i worry that i would have a serious collection of speeding tickets if i had the W12 (i still want one though!!)


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## jlindy (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (PanEuropean)*

Michael
I absolutely trust everything you say as your knowledge about the Phaeton is most impressive, but there is NO WAY the W12's accelerate the same 0 to 60 as the V8's.







What are the numbers for each?


_Modified by jlindy at 3:09 PM 8-8-2008_


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (jlindy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jlindy* »_ What are the numbers for each?
_Modified by jlindy at 3:09 PM 8-8-2008_

V8: 0-60 mph: 6.6 seconds
Top Speed: 135 mph (governed)
EPA City: 15 mpg
EPA Highway: 22 mpg

W12: 0-60 mph: 5.7 seconds
Top Speed: 135 mph (governed)
EPA City: 12 mpg
EPA Highway: 18 mpg

REF: GAYOT.com
Regards,
Brent


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (W126C)*

The 0-60 numbers vary depending on the source for both the V8 and the W12 but they're about one second apart. 
A one second difference in a 0-60 time is a _huge_ difference. And that's coming from someone with a V8.
However, I'm completely satisfied with the performance of my V8. I like the exhaust note (my 11 year old loves it - "put it in S dad, _please_..."). It probably handles a little better as most of the 200 lb. weight difference is up front. And the 2 or 3 MPG difference in gas mileage is not insignificant.
Steven


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## jlindy (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (car_guy)*

Yes, one second better in 0-60 is HUGE! I llike the exhaust note of the V8 and am disappointed that the W12 isn't a deeper growl than the V8. I would love the V8 to sound even throatier IMO.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (W126C)*

One second might be a huge difference at a dragstrip, but realistically, who ever presses the gas pedal right to the floor and keeps it there until their car reaches 60 MPH? I doubt if anyone ever does that.
Thus, the acceleration of the two cars (the W12 and the V8) from 0 to 60 is identical, in the sense that both of them are equally capable of accelerating at whatever rate any of us would reasonably and practically call upon the car to accelerate at. This even allows for 'spirited' driving. I don't consider putting the pedal to the metal and holding it there to be 'spirited' driving - heck, that's just drag racing, nothing more.
There is a substantial difference between the capability of the two engines once speeds increase above 100 MPH, but again, who would ever benefit from that in North America?
Both the V8 and the W12 offer more than sufficient performance for North America. I like the W12 because it is very quiet. Some folks like the V8 because it has a sporty, powerful exhaust note. It's entirely a matter of personal preference.
Michael


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## paddyh (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (PanEuropean)*

Cruising - now that is where the quietness resonates for me








Living near some of the most incredible mountains and having had the car on I-70 at 11,000 ft asl (3,300m), this is truely the first car that has allowed me to say 'what mountains?'. The power is smooth and always there, and 'enough to satisfy my needs'.
Patrick


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## chicagovwsales (Jul 6, 2005)

Patrick I'm still a little sore about you getting to that Phaeton before we could!!!! 
To chime in the W12 is smoother and you feel the engine working less and the acceleration from 60 mph to over 100 is amazing - the bigger gears from the 5 speed help in that aspect too. W12 if you can find it but as someone said finding a clean, well maintained car is the key factor when it comes to Phaetons.


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## paddyh (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: (chicagovwsales)*

Jesse, I would not had bought this car without your sage advice - the hour we spent on the phone while I drove down to Monterrey from San Jose made all the difference.








Patrick


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## chicagovwsales (Jul 6, 2005)

great.


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Chuckdoc)*

The V8 offers 90% of what the W12 offers (properly equipped) at 75% of the price. In this respect, I think it represents better value. Alot probably comes down to how or where you drive. To be perfectly honest, when gas hit $4.33 in Chicago, I was questioning my decision to get a 5200 lb car to sit in bumper to bumper traffic and get 15 MPG. But, it is an extremely nice car that was purchased at a great price, so I'll edure the pain at the pump.


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## paddyh (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Stinky999)*

And that gas and commute question is why I have the Miata (oops - the Mazda MX-5)








Patrick


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## sjd9346 (Apr 21, 2004)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Chuckdoc)*

I suppose I have a pretty unique perspective on this question, as I currently have a 2005 V8 and a 2006 W12. My 2005 is coming off lease and will be returned in two weeks. It has 47,000 miles and I just got home from a 4 day trip from Los Angeles to Lake Tahoe and back. I took the V8. It performed great in high temperatures and about 100 miles of solid 90 mph driving (hey, the 5 is a fast interstate).The V8 is different in three dramatic ways from the W12. It is louder (some would say this is good, others would say not so - I just say very different - throaty vs. turbine is an excellent way to describe it). I enjoy the engine sound in the V8, but after driving the W12 now for a few weeks (it has been at OEMpl.com for a number of mods - new spec fog lights, Euro spec chrome trim on front bumper, brake powder coating, new rims, keyless start and a couple of other goodies) I have grown to appreciate the quiet nature of the engine. Somehow, the raw sound of the V8 gets the blood moving, though, in a way the sound of the W12 doesn't, but it is subjective. The second item is the transmission. I am a huge fan of the V8 - I have enjoyed every minute of driving this car, but I do feel as though the W12 transmission is smoother and more seamless. Although the V8 is still silky smooth, in purely relative terms, it "hunts" a lot more than the W12 does. The shifts are also more noticeable. Again, this is subjective. I would say the V8 leaves the driver feeling a bit more engaged since the W12 is so silent and you just don't notice is working through the paces. Third, is speed. I tend to drive fairly aggressive. I enjoy accelerating hard on some occasions, but not every time. As Michael mentioned, under normal driving conditions, there is not a huge difference is you just go half throttle. However....there is a difference. It is subtle and hard to explain. The W12 simply "launches" in a way the V8 doesn't. The V8 has to work harder to achieve the same results - obviously HP and torque come into play here, but with the W12, you really "feel" the difference, even at moderate acceleration. I think you have to constantly drive one and switch to the other as I have for the last month, to really appreciate this. The torque curve is also much flatter in the W12 and this is where the speeds from 80+ really make a difference. There is a great 2 mile stretch near LAX with no onramps and I have hit the limiter on both cars many times. I can say, without a doubt, and with respect to my V8 comrades, the W12 is just in a different league at speed. I would struggle to justify the 30k price difference in a brand new purchase, but the engine dynamics and power are really amazing and I appreciate the extra juice the W12 offers. I did pay a premium on my W12 but I think it is worth it (that being said, I don't really know what the price of a 2006 V8 with 16k miles would be). Also, I do not notice any particular handling difference between the two. I do think the stereo sounds better in the W12 due to the lack of engine noise (settings are identical in both 270 watt systems). Two different cars, both in a clas of their own.


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## Chuckdoc (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (sjd9346)*

Awesome feedback, Thanks!


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (sjd9346)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sjd9346* »_I suppose I have a pretty unique perspective on this question, as I currently have a 2005 V8 and a 2006 W12. My 2005 is coming off lease and will be returned in two weeks. It has 47,000 miles and I just got home from a 4 day trip from Los Angeles to Lake Tahoe and back. I took the V8. It performed great in high temperatures and about 100 miles of solid 90 mph driving (hey, the 5 is a fast interstate).The V8 is different in three dramatic ways from the W12. It is louder (some would say this is good, others would say not so - I just say very different - throaty vs. turbine is an excellent way to describe it). I enjoy the engine sound in the V8, but after driving the W12 now for a few weeks (it has been at OEMpl.com for a number of mods - new spec fog lights, Euro spec chrome trim on front bumper, brake powder coating, new rims, keyless start and a couple of other goodies) I have grown to appreciate the quiet nature of the engine. Somehow, the raw sound of the V8 gets the blood moving, though, in a way the sound of the W12 doesn't, but it is subjective. The second item is the transmission. I am a huge fan of the V8 - I have enjoyed every minute of driving this car, but I do feel as though the W12 transmission is smoother and more seamless. Although the V8 is still silky smooth, in purely relative terms, it "hunts" a lot more than the W12 does. The shifts are also more noticeable. Again, this is subjective. I would say the V8 leaves the driver feeling a bit more engaged since the W12 is so silent and you just don't notice is working through the paces. Third, is speed. I tend to drive fairly aggressive. I enjoy accelerating hard on some occasions, but not every time. As Michael mentioned, under normal driving conditions, there is not a huge difference is you just go half throttle. However....there is a difference. It is subtle and hard to explain. The W12 simply "launches" in a way the V8 doesn't. The V8 has to work harder to achieve the same results - obviously HP and torque come into play here, but with the W12, you really "feel" the difference, even at moderate acceleration. I think you have to constantly drive one and switch to the other as I have for the last month, to really appreciate this. The torque curve is also much flatter in the W12 and this is where the speeds from 80+ really make a difference. There is a great 2 mile stretch near LAX with no onramps and I have hit the limiter on both cars many times. I can say, without a doubt, and with respect to my V8 comrades, the W12 is just in a different league at speed. I would struggle to justify the 30k price difference in a brand new purchase, but the engine dynamics and power are really amazing and I appreciate the extra juice the W12 offers. I did pay a premium on my W12 but I think it is worth it (that being said, I don't really know what the price of a 2006 V8 with 16k miles would be). Also, I do not notice any particular handling difference between the two. I do think the stereo sounds better in the W12 due to the lack of engine noise (settings are identical in both 270 watt systems). Two different cars, both in a class of their own. 

Best analysis/comparison.http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif It resonates with me because it accurately puts into words my thoughts and experience when I drove a V8 relative to my W12.


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (sjd9346)*

sjd9346- you got it exactly. When I'm driving in the high mountains of the Sangre de Cristo's, my W12 passes the slo pokes like no other car I've ever owned- incl some turbos. It really doesn't know when it's at 8000 feet.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (sjd9346)*

Excellent summary, Steve, thanks very much for taking the time to write it.
Michael


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## Waterwerkes (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (PanEuropean)*

I'm about to enter the Phaeton world this coming Friday when I pick up my 2004 V8, with 38K miles. I've been following these Phaeton forums for a little while. It was a fairly simple decision to make. I love the room in the car and the finishes are spectacular. I am going with the V8 primarily due to finaces at this time as well as the fuel efficiency (I know this is somewhat of an oxymoron, but it makes sense to me). At this time, I'm refusing to test drive a W12, because I know I'd be trading mine in... So the V8 will do for now. I am a mechanic by trade, so I will be performing all the maintenance and the non-warranty related stuff myself which will be very interresting. I'm sure I will be asking many questions to those with much more seat time behind the wheel of their Phaetons though.
Anyways, I want to thank you all for making this one of the MOST informative, and cleanly kept forums on the Vortex. See you all soon!


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## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Waterwerkes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Waterwerkes* »_...Anyways, I want to thank you all for making this one of the MOST informative, and cleanly kept forums on the Vortex. See you all soon!

Congratulations on your purchase.
(Browsing thru the other 'Vortex' forums, I understand what you mean)


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## v1mbrt (Dec 25, 2007)

Drove both a V8 and the W12. 
W12 silent, a little more high speed power and not so suitable for heavy cornering roads, very suitable for long distances on straight roads. 
V8, a bit more noisy and rough sound, engine has to work pretty hard (high revs) to get decent performance, vehicle perfect in front/back balans, significantly better cornering as a W12, a (very) little bit less high speed stability on the interstates.
A little story: When test driving the W12, I was behind a little Fiat on a very curvy ****-road. The Fiat drove away from me, whereas I continuously did have the impression to slide out of the curves into the water. The W12 is pretty front-heavy.
I did choose the V8, though the noise is still more then I like. A W12 with the weight of a V8 would be the ideal choice........



_Modified by v1mbrt at 2:16 AM 9-8-2008_


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## paddyh (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: (v1mbrt)*

Fiat - I used to drive a Fiat - no way it beats the W12 at anything.
I drive the Phaeton up in the mountains here in Colorado (what mountains says the W12). When the road gets twisty, I just put the suspension into 'FIRM', and the car handles like on rails. Not quite like my Miata for the corners, but close, and takes the corners with absolute confidence. I did notice that when I leave the suspension in 'comfort' or 'normal', those same curves get a little challenging, but the car has always felt supremely capable through any of the roads that Colorado mountains have thrown its way.
Patrick



_Modified by paddyh at 5:27 PM 9-8-2008_


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## 30mpg (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Chuckdoc)*

I first drove the W12, it was my introduction to the Phaeton and first ever experience. I was enthralled and had wanted one ever since.
When I got serious about getting one, I decided to sacrafice the power in favour of fuel economy, so I went for the V8. (Please don't quote me out of context! lol)
I'm quite happy with my decision. I barely remember driving the W12 and so perhaps my comparison is unfair.
Off the line, I do recall the W12 having a decent bit of power, but the V8 is not shy either. I do like the sound of the V8, I think most German cars sound good, unlike the Lexus which is practically silent. If the W12 was as silent, I might be a bit disappointed about that. But I suppose this depends on your taste. It is by no means intrusive or awkward, just a nice little rumble when you start the engine or stand at the rear.
Again, while I love the tease of owning the larger engine, and constantly finding myself asking "what if" -- I'm really quite happy with my choice.
Hope this helps.
cheers,
Albert.


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

Really, the V8 is quite powerful. I've never been left with the thought "if only I had more power". There's a mystic allure of the W12 at high speeds, but my car will never see those speeds.
I also like the 6-speed transmission on the V8, rather than the 5-speed on the W12.
Finally, if I'm in a position where I know I want to drive aggressively, I either flip it in Sport or use the paddle shifters and it becomes a completely different car.


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## nsxboy (Dec 19, 2008)

*v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison*

I was wondering if someone can direct me to any previous discussions of driving experience comparison between the V8 and the W12.
It seems there are lots more V8s out there than W12s. Are there benefits to either?
I'd love to hear from current owners (especially those that might have owned or driven both) to give their thoughts.
Thanks in advance!
Mike


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## vah (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison (nsxboy)*

no different on the highway.
large different in city driving, especially when the light turn green.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison (nsxboy)*

Click here! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3971814


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

V8 is easier and less expensive to repair and maintain. Very strong engine with more than enough power at all reasonable speeds.
W12 is a complex engine. The true power from the W12 is realized at higher speeds than you might drive in the US.
What scares me away from the W12 is having a service department that really knows what they are doing with the engine. As the Phaeton gets long in the tooth, it's going to be harder to find shops that will be able to provide good service with the W12 than it will with the V8.
All that said, if you offered to trade your similarly equipped and maintained W12 for my V8, I would do it







.


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_One second might be a huge difference at a dragstrip, but realistically, who ever presses the gas pedal right to the floor and keeps it there until their car reaches 60 MPH? I doubt if anyone ever does that.
Michael

Sure I have but the cool thing its the Phaeton tranny its much smarter than that. I dont have to press the pedal t the medal to have a great start. in the V8 there's a sweet spot that im sure most of you should know by now. 
I'll explain: If you press down all the way you get a weird over rev and a little hesitation and then boom like a rocket you go and snap your neck a little.
Now like 75-80% down if you get there a lil slower you get a quick start and crazy accelaration and did I say the sweetest growl like a grown Lion.
I only do it next to other kids in sportier cars lol there are taken back a little.
I understand you are older than me so you might not do it, im just a kid.
but try it


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (mhoepfin)*

The W12 is quieter, smoother, but more expensive to maintain (12 plugs to change instead of 8, etc.). It uses a lot more fuel than the V8 in the city, but not much more than the V8 on the highway.
The W12 Phaetons tend to be a bit better equipped, so far as non-engine related options are concerned, than the V8 ones.
Michael


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## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison (nsxboy)*

I've owned both the V8 and W12 and can say that besides all that has been written here, (exhaust sound, turbine smooth, MPG etc.) it seems there is another unspoken difference between the cars: the mystique of the W12.
Some automobile enthusiasts have always wanted a 12 cylinder car from the time they saw their first one, or read about it in an Automotive magazine. Regardless of whether it was true, somewhere along the line it was always assumed that the more cylinders under the hood, the better. Many years ago I remember dealers telling me when I shopped for cars "are you looking for a 6 or an 8?, You know the 8 has all the goodies."
I drive mostly highway miles and have been getting around 20 MPG rather consistently. When I am in the city I must admit that the fuel gauge seems to be moving as rapidly as the clock, so if you are primarily stuck in city traffic, the W12 probably isn't for you.
As was previously mentioned on this post, of the people getting another Phaeton, there aren't many getting rid of their W12's in favor of the V8, but rather the other way around, and since they are both great cars I can only assume "mystique" might be playing a role in their decision.
I'm hoping the next generation has a W16!


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison (murphybaileysam)*

no w16 please. But W12TT way to go with 600+HP http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison (Reflect)*

Um, doesn't the Veyron have a W16 that could fit into the next Phaeton?


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison (murphybaileysam)*

The Veyron has a w12 with quad turbochargers.... one for each bank of cyclinders.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison (murphybaileysam)*

I've still got that Phaeton center muffler. And a dream of a quieter V8. Mine is off a Phaeton V6 diesel. The inlet and exhaust pipes are a little smaller in OD so I've put the project on hold for now. If I find a W12 muffler and the pipes are the same size as the V8 pipes, that muffler will fit and I'll try it. I think it's exhaust noise, not engine noise and the muffler will cure it. If anyone wants to try the V6 muffler I have, and weld on slightly larger pipes, let me know.


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## adamkodish (Mar 5, 2006)

*Re: v8 vs w12 - driving experience comparison (Auzivision)*

The Veyron 16.4 has an 8L quad turbo W16 with fuel economy that makes a Phaeton W12 seem frugal








http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron

_Quote, originally posted by *Auzivision* »_The Veyron has a w12 with quad turbochargers.... one for each bank of cyclinders.


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## aupieddecochon (May 10, 2003)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (Reflect)*

I decided on the W12 for the comments in the forum about the extra sound proof materials. I have may have tested a V8 a few times at a dealership but that was 2+ years ago and I cannot give a good comparison.
My Speed Dependent Volume (SDV) doesn't seem to work but several forum members have explained that is due to the extreme sound insulation.
One point that hasn't been made yet is the W12 in sports gear mode. If you drive the W12 in the city in sport mode, it is like riding on the back of a very jittery wild cat. Just brush against the accelerator and the W12 is off like a rocket.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: W12 vs. V8 (aupieddecochon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aupieddecochon* »_My Speed Dependent Volume (SDV) doesn't seem to work....

Uh, excuse me while I pick myself up from rolling on the floor laughing...
Your SDV works just perfectly. VW matched the volume increase to the increase in *wind noise* encountered at higher speeds. As you have already commented, the cabin of the car is very well insulated, and there is very little road noise with increasing speed.
In the W12, the SDV circuitry begins to increase the volume around 85 to 90 MPH, and the full volume increase is achieved at about 160 MPH. Below 85 MPH, there is no need to increase the volume.








Michael


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## vitop (Aug 22, 2012)

*decisions, decisions*

Would you guys go for a one owner 57,000 mile V8 with no options or a 74,000 mile W12 premiere?

The W12 needs a few things like brakes and a tail light, etc. The price difference in only about 3k. I'm having a hard time deciding. I'd like the W12, but I have a W140 S600 and definitely don't like the gas consumption (but love the drive).

The other thing is that I can get a warranty on the V8 but not the W12. Both are 2004


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Tough call.... fifty percent more putts per revolution creates a uniquely smooth engine that you pay for it at the pump. Just like location is every in real estate, condition means the most regarding used cars.


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## 53 0val (Feb 23, 2010)

Comparison? There is NO comparison after you drive a W12. 

Bob


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

No doubt W12 assuming all other things equal. However, that's the problem, with a used car other things will not be equal. I agree that you go on condition and service history as previously stated. But if you must have a W12 then do your due diligence and if it doesn't pass, move on until you find a good one. 

I think the W12s, especially the rarer ones, have the best chance of being collectibles if that's a concern. 

Happy hunting. 

Jim X


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## acoop (Jan 2, 2012)

hi. Most people on this forum are longtime members with extensive knowledge on these cars. With that said, though i would love a w12, without a warranty, you better have some serious money set aside for repairs. that car was 100k new, and to quote Michael, repairs on these cars are obviously based on the original msrp. I currently own still an 05 and 06 v8 purchased new by me. The 05 is currently being repaired for approx 10,000.00 now....struts. I have an extended warranty. Without a warranty, you better be pretty handy. I believe this car to be my favorite, ever. But..when something does "break" look out. Arthur


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## vitop (Aug 22, 2012)

How can struts cost $10k on an 05? 

I thought that the 04 was the year when all 4 had to be replaced when one failed because they had been replaced. I thought that you could just replace a failed strut on the 05s? 

Or did all 4 fail? I saw a place that rebuilt them. I am not sure if that is a good alternative, but they seemed like you could get them done for less than $1000 each.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Didn't the struts change part way through 05? A vehicle first registered in 05 may have been manufactured earlier anyway, mine's officially an 04 but it was manufactured in 03.


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## vitop (Aug 22, 2012)

I honestly don't know the way that VW does it, but I am familiar with some other makes. Most of the parts changes happen on the yearly model break dates rather than the manufacturing dates. I have seen some running changes during the year though and maybe that was the case on the struts. 

Just seems like a lot unless it's all four. Heck, it's alot for all four!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

$10k is about right for all 4, and there's also the cost of the controller to go with them.


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## sjd9346 (Apr 21, 2004)

I leased a 2005 V8 and after the lease ended, I found a low mileage 2006 W12, which I still drive today. Both cars are/were great. Having never driven the W12, I would still be very happy with a V8. Having now driven the W12 for a couple of years, I could never, ever, imagine going back to a V8. Not because the V8 is not great, but for me, the driving characteristics, engine sound, flat torque curve and the overall smoothness of the W12 are qualities that I have grown to appreciate. There is not a huge difference in speed from 0-30, but beyond that, you just can't really compare the two. 

Regarding cost ~ if you are concerned about the delta in gas between the two, you really should not be buying either car. This is an extremely expensive car to maintain and it is finicky. You really have to want to drive this car - not need to. I put up with the quirks, cost, and other nitpicks because not a day goes by where I don't appreciate how well-made, solid, smooth, comfortable and vault-like this car is. Also, personally, I would wait to find a later model with the soft close doors, extended wood and bump in hp (444hp in W12). 

Either one is great - but from experience, there is no doubt which one I would select, given my experience with both. I have 5 payments left and mine will be paid off, so I plan to own if for many years to come. Good luck on your decision. 

Steve


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## 53 0val (Feb 23, 2010)

That "little" bump in horsepower in the '06 is HUGE. If you are comparing W12's................you need to drive the '06. The dry sump allows the motor to rev up so much faster and, if you can believe it, even more smoothly than the earlier W12's; it's amazing. 

Bob


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