# Front Seat Disassembly, Service, etc. 'How-To' [FAQ - Done]



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Seat memory failure, seat surgery necessary?

For 2 months I have been trying to figure out why my seat memory doesn’t work. I read all possible posts, did the reset, but without avail. I asked the dealer technician to look at it, but all he concluded was that all buttons were fully functional. The memory just doesn’t seem to work and he diagnosed a faulty controller. The passenger seat has no problems at all, all movements are functional and the memory for each of the 3 buttons can be set flawlessly. So what could be the cause ?
:facepalm:
Today I couldn’t stand it any longer, the massage function also didn’t work anymore, so I hooked up my VAG-COM for some diagnosis. Indeed, all of the buttons, including the memory buttons work, however while checking the vertical lumbar support button, there seems to be no actual movement, whatever I try. Depressing the switch is recognized, however the encoder keeps reading the same position. At the same time, some noise comes from the seat, but only during half a second. This happens with both the up and down lumbar support button while the encoder stays at the same number. So, my logical thinking leads me to the conclusion that either the motor or the encoder is defective, or the steel wires leading to the lumbar device got stuck somehow. And that for that reason, the memory refuses to store any position.

I wonder whether there is somebody who had the same problem and was able to repair it? I am planning to do some seat surgery but have no idea what to expect, other than was is written in the self study manual. I hope there are photo’s available which may help me guide with dismantling the rear cover and the inner components to reach the motor, which I think is in the upper left corner of the seat. Any suggestions are welcome!


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## mcbres (Dec 19, 2010)

I have a 2004 v8 and my drivers seat back keep moving forward, also the memory did not work. Every other movement was ok. I took it to my vw audi dealer in Newton nj. they replaced the drivers control switch 3do-959-765-m-01c All is now working as it should. they told me it was not easy removing the seat. total cost was $420. So far other then the cost this dealer knows their stuff.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Actually I wondered why the dealer's technician removed the seat based on his diagnosis that all buttons were functional. And didn't fix it after all. And advised that my controller needed replacement. Anyway... 
Yesterday I finally decided to rip off the back of the seat to check a possible motor failure, as I earlier diagnosed that the vertical lumbar adjustment was not operating. It is a long story, but basically I managed to fix the associated motor & gear inside the seat. 
Then I checked whether this would solve the memory problem which my seat was having. It did! In fact it was an easy surgery after all, and quite fun to do. Anyone who is interested in some pictures and "how to" instructions, just let me know and then I will (try to) post them. My attempts to upload files from my PC failed so far.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Willem: 

Great job. Glad that also solved your seat memory problem. 

If you have and could post pictures of your "surgery" that would be very helpful. Phaeton seats have been pretty reliable but as the cars age, power seat problems will surely occur. 

As far as pictures are concerned, I believe you have to upload pictures to a site such as Photobucket or Googles Picasa and then link them in our forum to your chosen host site. 

Jim X


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

*Instruction set for Phaeton seat motor repair*

OK, here is a full set of instructions. 

PREPARATION: 
For this job I used regular tools, a mirror, a torch, some small 2 meter long rope, WD40 with nozzle extender, some cloth and some leather care products. I also used a DVM and VAG-COM, which are not an absolute "must", but handy for diagnosing. 

A summary of all steps of the repair process is given below. Next, I will explain each step in more detail. 



Prepare the seat for easy working. 

Move the back of the seat fully forward. 

Move the seat halfway aft. 

 

Optional: Remove the upper rear cover of front seat. I actually removed it completely, however I had a hard time recovering the two attachment clips after removing this cover. You might want to try to skip this step to avoid problems with these clips. 

Remove main rear cover 

Play around with the seat adjustment buttons. I have long arms, but if you are short, you will need an assistant to push the buttons while you check the movement of the motors. 

The vertical lumbar motor is the one on the right. In my case, it barely moved. 

Fix the motor. 

Test all movements. 

Test memory functions. 

Clean and preserve the leather of the covers 

Reinstall the covers 

 


Step 1 is just about adjusting the seat for easy working. 
Step 2: This one is optional. I actually removed the upper, smaller cover section, but I think this will not be necessary. Just try to see if you can remove the big cover first according to the following steps: 
Step 3: 
This photo shows you how you can use a mirror to see where those elastic straps underneath the seat are tied into. 











You have to grab each strap, then wriggle around and down a little. No need to use force! 

Remove the connector of the footwell light. This may be difficult, because you cannot fully pull forward the bottom flap of the cover after removing the elastic straps. 

After removing the footwell light connector, you can lift up the bottom flap, so you can search for two simple screws. 

Next, unscrew those two screws. 

Grab the rear cover with your both hands and lift it up, then towards you, to release it from the seat. 

Put them aside so you can clean them before you put them back again. 

 
Below photo shows how the front seat’s rear cover looks like from the inside. Note the position of the footwell light and the two metal brackets, which need to be unscrewed before you can detach it. 










Then you will be seeing the inner secrets of the seat. Quite impressive! 









The motor that takes care of the vertical lumbar motion is the one on the right, in the middle. Below is a close-up: 










I wonder why somebody has installed a component with a sticker with the text "Expired!" What is the exclamation mark actually telling? 

Anyway, now step 4: 
Step 4: Play around with the seat adjustment buttons. I have long arms, but if you are short, you will need an assistant to push the buttons while you check the movement of the motors. 
The vertical lumbar motor is the one on the right. In my case, it barely moved. 
Remove the 4 screws doesn’t allow you to take of the cover, but you will at least be able to create a gap. I concluded that the mechanism was possibly blocked by the heavy grease which probably dried out, or even was not OK ever since it was manufactured. 

Step 5: 
I used a can of WD40 with a nozzle extender which I squeezed between the gear housing and its cover. When you do this, make sure that you have sufficient cloth underneath that gear box to catch all spilt WD40 fluid. 
After each press on the up or down button, it tended to move just a few millimeters, and in only one direction. After 5 minutes, it was fully up (or down)- don't remember. 
I also measured the voltage on the motor, which was about 12 Volts with engine off and small charger connected to the LH battery. 
Since I had to go somewhere, I started the engine and drove away. During the drive, I kept on trying the up and down keys, until I noticed that the motor was making a full stroke each time. I guess that the additional volts made the motor a little stronger. 
After the drive, I applied another dosage of WD40 - one for the road. 

Below shows the position of all levers and lumbar support when the end position is reached: 









After being satisfied with the result and verification of the seat memory (yes it worked again!), don't forget to put the 4 screws back on the gear box cover and test it once more. Also check the massage function before you finish the job. 

Step 6: Now it is time to clean the covers. It is now very easy since they are off the seat. 









These two little bastards, belonging to the small top cover, were pretty hard to retrieve: 









They fit in here: 









Time to wrap it up. It is quite easy to first hook up the top of the big cover, then pull it down as much as you can. 
After having done that, I used a small rope to keep up the flap so I could check the position of the two mounting brackets with respect to the two screw holes: 








Next, remove the rope and reconnect the connector of the footwell light. The mirror comes in handy then. 
Final step is the fixation of the two straps. Again, the mirror can be used to have some idea of the two little holes where the two black little things need to be squeezed into. 

That's it! If you have any questions, just let me know.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

WillemBal said:


> ...I wonder why somebody has installed a component with a sticker with the text "Expired!" What is the exclamation mark actually telling?


 Depending on context, the German word 'stand' can be used as a noun for 'quality' - in this case, it would appear that the part had, perhaps, exceeded a storage time, but was then subsequently evaluated by quality control and found to be satisfactory.

Below is a picture of the driver seat back from an assembly that is used in the Swiss VW technician training center, it appears that some similar form of post-production quality control was carried out on this assembly.

Michael

*Seat Back Assembly*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

WillemBal said:


> Seat memory failure, seat surgery necessary?
> 
> I wonder whether there is somebody who had the same problem and was able to repair it?


 Ask your VW Technician to carry out 'basic settings' from the "Guided Functions" portion of the VAS 5052 diagnostic scan tool used by the VW dealerships. This may solve your problem. An overview of the process is shown below. Be aware that incorrect coding in other controllers may affect power seat function.

If a mechanical or electrical problem is present in your seat, it will be specifically identified by this functional test.

Michael

Basic Setting for Power Seats (accessed via "Guided Functions"


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Lastly, be aware that there has been a technical bulletin issued addressing lubrication of the parts in the seat back. You can read more about it here: Seat Comfort, TB 72-05-05 Lumbar Support Lubrication to stop squeak

Michael


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> Depending on context, the German word 'stand' can be used as a noun for 'quality' - in this case, it would appear that the part had, perhaps, exceeded a storage time, but was then subsequently evaluated by quality control and found to be satisfactory.


 Michael, 
Thanks for your comment on that. In production environments, storage sensitive components are always identified by a last date for usage. I.e. glues and epoxies, pure chemicals etc. Parts like this are normally marked with a more clear identification when it is found unacceptable. Interesting to note that the demo seat also has this tag, plus a yellow one stating that it has a "Schmaler Rollenkorb". Small bearing (housing). The German "Stand" can mean "Status" too; we use the same word in the Dutch language. KW means calender week. 
Perhaps this motor& gear box assembly was improved and fitted with a bigger ball bearing assembly to avoid known problems and someone later decided that the previously expired parts still were fit for purpose. We will never know.... But WD40 did the trick, though. 
Willem


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> Ask your VW Technician to carry out 'basic settings' from the "Guided Functions" portion of the VAS 5052 diagnostic scan tool used by the VW dealerships. This may solve your problem.


 Hello Michael, 
He used the VAS 5052 tool for diagnosing the buttons (only). But probably didn't follow that particular procedure. I will ask him to do this particular test, however I don't expect it will reveal anything new as I already fixed the problem myself.eace: 
I can count up to 6 different encoded positions. Does this mean this one is for a 12-way seat? The numbers I've seen with the VAG-COM are indeed all above 30000, except for the vertical lumbar position encoder, which is giving a number between 100 and 300 if I recall correctly. Before it was functional, it was stuck at 30000, nowhere near the usual range. 

Willem


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> Lastly, be aware that there has been a technical bulletin issued addressing lubrication of the parts in the seat back. You can read more about it here: Seat Comfort, TB 72-05-05 Lumbar Support Lubrication to stop squeakl


 Haha, I think a previous owner or his technician already did this lubricating job, given the huge amounts of grease exactly on the spots, marked with an arrow!


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## gekon111a (May 13, 2010)

Dear Willem,

One question regarding seat massage option. 
How long massage works in your case and how do you feel it?
In my case it is very soft and last ~ 5 min and then is off.
Do you know how to change the time of massage?
Raf


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

gekon111a said:


> ...In my case it is very soft and last ~ 5 min and then is off.


That sounds about the same as my car. You cannot prolong the cycle, but if you push the button a second time after the cycle stops, it will activate again.

Michael


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

gekon111a said:


> How long massage works in your case and how do you feel it?
> In my case it is very soft and last ~ 5 min and then is off.


Dear Raf,
Massage lasts exactly 10 minutes, then shuts off. Actually, I read that in the manual a couple of weeks back. And you can switch it back on when it stops. It "feels" short, but I guess that time flies by when you're having fun...
You wrote that the massage is soft? Well, I agree that it is not Thai style massage.. and there is no happy end either... I would describe it as "firm, but gentle" and after a while, I get used to it and kind of forget that it is running.
In your seat, perhaps the motion devices do not travel along their full ranges. In that case, it is easy to fix by (re)learning the motors their end positions. 
In my seat, the horizontal lumbar motion lasts about 7 to 8 seconds from front to aft and vice versa. Vertical motion idem dito. There is a little trick you should know. When you depress the up key, then wait at least 3 seconds longer than when the motor stops. Actually, you should hear a relay ticking. When you don't hear the relay ticking, then press the opposite key for about 15 seconds. You should hear the motor running again and the last thing you should hear is the relay (again). So do not release the button when the motor stops, but wait a little longer until you hear the relay. Repeat this until you are sure that in both directions the motor is stopped by the relay. And then repeat the whole procedure for the front-aft motion of the lumbar support. Do this with the engine off, since it is otherwise hard to hear the motors and those relays.
I hope this improves your massage experience!
Regards,
Willem


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

*Front Seat "Rear Trim Removal"*

Hi folks, 

can anyone advise the route of least resistance to remove the rear plastic trims from the front seats? I'm sure there will be an easy way, I just don't want to break them finding it!! 

Thanks 
Stu


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Stu: 

I'm not exactly sure what part you are referring to, however, if it is the upper seat back cover, you just pull it off. But - the two clips that retain it in position are usually destroyed when you remove it, so, go to your VW dealer and order a couple of replacement clips first. These clips are very inexpensive. The part number is 3D0 881 279. 

See the remark on page 3 of the attached technical bulletin (double-click on the thumbnail to open the PDF). FYI, this is a very old TB, it describes how to stop squeaking noises when the seat back massage function is in operation. 

Hope this provides the answer you are seeking. 

Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> I'm sure there will be an easy way, I just don't want to break them finding it!!


 Sounds to me that you are already aware of how insanely expensive those panels are! I assume you also have the 18-way seats with separate upper and lower rear trims. The upper one has to come off first. It is held by three fasteners and you just need to pull it out. In process of doing just that, following the instructions from VW, i broke two of the fasteners. Fortunately, it was fixed with hot glue (this is a >800 euro part, remember!). Once you get the upper part off, the lower is easy. You start by pulling up the lower fabric part (where the footwell light is) and there are two screws behind it. Them you just pull up the whole panel and it snaps free. 

There are images in service manual showing the exact locations of fasteners. Can post them if needed. 

Jouko


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

*Driver Seat Surgery*

Hi Stu, 

I hope *This link* provides you with all the answers. Before you begin to dismantle the seat covers, you might want to order those 3 retaining clips about which Jouko was talking about. I managed to pry them out partly in good shape, but that took a long time! 


Willem


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi guys, 

thanks for the info. 
Willem, the link is broken, but thanks all the same. I need to get access to the inside of the seats to install LCD monitors. The Mac Mini install is proceeding, thanks in main to Jouko and Hugh (Irish Phaeton) for their persistence in accessing and successfully using the AV in feature 
I will post pictures and a guide to fitting on completion. Assuming of course that everything works as it should:laugh: 

Stu


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Ahhh, I mean *This link*.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

WillemBal said:


> Ahhh, I mean *This link*.


 Thanks Willem. 

Stu


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Stu, Willem: 

I have merged Stu's newer post onto the end of the more comprehensive post that Willem references directly above - for that reason, those two references will now be a circular link that take you to the top of this page. 

I've also edited the title of the original post to facilitate future searching, and added it to the forum FAQ, in the 'troubleshooting' section. 

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

Additional discussions of a similar topic, worth taking a look at if you plan to do the work described above - 

Driver Seat - Troubleshooting Noise 

Ventilated Seats - how they work 

Attached below is a Technical Bulletin issued by VW of America in 2005 to address the problem of the lumbar support (used to provide the massage function) squeaking. I carried out the work described in this TB on my car back in 2006, and made an illustrated post about it here - however, I regret that I can't find the link to that post. It's around here somewhere... 

Michael


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## Corey E. (Aug 28, 2012)

*That did the trick*

What you described, was the same exacted thing that was happening to my drivers set. Took the back off and messed with the lumbar motor. Now everything is working as it should. Thanks so much Willem, you have been a great help!!!!! :laugh:


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