# What's wrong with this picture?



## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

*After hours of research and work, it has finally been fixed*


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## ALRDesign (Nov 5, 2008)

IRRELEPHANT said:


> First mistake was buying a bagged 20th thru a private sale and not fully checking out how he setup his air suspension.
> 
> It looks like he (the previous owner) cut the rear cup seat where the normal spring would sit right off the frame and welded (can't really call these welds) this shotty as **** bracket to the flat surface using a bolt and a couple of nuts as spacers and then for good measure he use a few self tapping screws to hold it in place to the frame. *As you can see the bottom right of the bag is torn from rubbing against the control arm.*
> 
> ...


I can't see anything.


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

ALRDesign said:


> I can't see anything.


The pictures are showing as red Exes? Hold on I'll re upload


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

Okay I re posted them, can you see the pics?


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

ALSO, these are shown without the self tapping screws the guy used thru the plate and the air hose removed from the bag.


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## hyphytrain203 (Jun 9, 2003)

haha, what is that bolt doing rusted to the frame? 

i honestly wouldn't freak out though. I would def take your car to an experienced welder to remove the previous owners work and have him fab up a new, more solid surface on the frame rail to install a new bag to.

self tapping screws are ok to mount a bracket to the frame rail. these are low torque screws that keep whatever bracket you use centered on the frame rail.


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

are you freaking kidding me? idk who to flame on first, OP for not checking out a car fully ESP with an air setup.. or the dumbass that has no mechanical/welding skills


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## eastcoaststeeze (Jul 20, 2009)

Tofik said:


> are you freaking kidding me? idk who to flame on first, OP for not checking out a car fully ESP with an air setup.. or the dumbass that has no mechanical/welding skills


ahaahahahahahahaha


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## ALRDesign (Nov 5, 2008)

Tofik said:


> are you freaking kidding me? idk who to flame on first, OP for not checking out a car fully ESP with an air setup.. or the dumbass that has no mechanical/welding skills


Def the OP first. The dude who put the car together is a stillbirth, but when buying a car that already has some kind of "extravagant" modification done to it, it should be checked out in full before purchasing it. 

Just have someone who knows what they're doing patch that all up. It looks like ****, but it's not too difficult to repair and re-do the right way.


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

I know full well I was going to get flamed hard for this, I made a bad mistake but the only thing now is to fix the problem. But anyway if you don't have any advice or opinion on the matter you're still free to call me a ****ing moron because I know I am one, absolutely.


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

IRRELEPHANT said:


> I know full well I was going to get flamed hard for this, I made a bad mistake but the only thing now is to fix the problem. But anyway if you don't have any advice or opinion on the matter you're still free to call me a ****ing moron because I know I am one, absolutely.


as much as i would love to just keep going on and on, im not gonna be that guy and willt ry to point you the right way, first ill say that you should def get rid of that mount because i would never put a friend or family member into a car like that. i have the airlift sleeves on my wolfsburg for a few months now, their true test was over this past weekend when i put about 400+miles on them, very comfortable at any speeds, handled like a champ passing cars, and still goes balls low

oh and how much did you pay for this 20th?


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

I would like to replace the rear bags and do it right but the previous owner ruined that by cutting out the cup seat to weld that crappy plate to the frame. So I plan on cutting out the rear bags, buying the correct ones, but how do I go about mounting them now?


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

Tofik said:


> as much as i would love to just keep going on and on, im not gonna be that guy and willt ry to point you the right way, first ill say that you should def get rid of that mount because i would never put a friend or family member into a car like that. i have the airlift sleeves on my wolfsburg for a few months now, their true test was over this past weekend when i put about 400+miles on them, very comfortable at any speeds, handled like a champ passing cars, and still goes balls low
> 
> oh and how much did you pay for this 20th?



Hey I've put 20k miles on the car and went to Waterfest and back and driven over the past year and half til now is when the bag blew from rubbing the control arm.

I got the car at 70k for $10k


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

IRRELEPHANT said:


> I would like to replace the rear bags and do it right but the previous owner ruined that by cutting out the cup seat to weld that crappy plate to the frame. So I plan on cutting out the rear bags, buying the correct ones, but how do I go about mounting them now?


to mount them all you need is to make sure the frame is free of all that crap, find the original nipple location, if the nipple has been cut off you can weld on a nut that would correspond to airlift or firestone sleeve bags so that you can screw them in so that they stay ion place, i think this would be the easiest sollution if you want to switch over to sleeves (no rubbing issues), if you still want to use bellow bags(the ones you have now you) you still have to weld on a nut so that the top bracket can screw in and then you need to make sure there is adequate clearance around the bag and lines because the one in there looks like it has been rubbing a good amount.. and you do not want that to blow as youre aring up or driving.



IRRELEPHANT said:


> Hey I've put 20k miles on the car and went to Waterfest and back and driven over the past year and half til now is when the bag blew from rubbing the control arm.
> 
> I got the car at 70k for $10k





Tofik said:


> and you do not want that to blow as youre aring up or driving.



and it seems like youve already experienced this, i would suggest airlift sleeves from bagriders because they do not have rubbing issues (as frequently) and you see rubbing issues with bellow bags, i had to do zero modifying to get mine in


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

Tofik said:


> to mount them all you need is to make sure the frame is free of all that crap, find the original nipple location, if the nipple has been cut off you can weld on a nut that would correspond to airlift or firestone sleeve bags so that you can screw them in so that they stay ion place, i think this would be the easiest sollution if you want to switch over to sleeves (no rubbing issues), if you still want to use bellow bags(the ones you have now you) you still have to weld on a nut so that the top bracket can screw in and then you need to make sure there is adequate clearance around the bag and lines because the one in there looks like it has been rubbing a good amount.. and you do not want that to blow as youre aring up or driving.



AFAIK they didn't make double bellow's, at least ones that I can find. I want the tapered sleeves. I will only know if that nipple is still there when I cut out the bracket and bag.


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

IRRELEPHANT said:


> AFAIK they didn't make double bellow's, at least ones that I can find. I want the tapered sleeves. I will only know if that nipple is still there when I cut out the bracket and bag.


yea that would be your best choice, yup you need to cut out all that crap and then let us know or take pics and show us what it looks like all cleaned up


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

The plate where the original coil sits should look like this, no?


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

To do it properly, you are going to have to restore / put back the pieces that are missing. To do that you are going to need another mk4 or the rear end missing pieces.


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

dOWa242 said:


> To do it properly, you are going to have to restore / put back the pieces that are missing. To do that you are going to need another mk4 or the rear end missing pieces.


Can I go to a junkyard and have them cut out just that piece?


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

By the way it looks, I'm positive he grinded out that bit on the right that forms the upper coil seat and more than likely, that nipple is gone too...:banghead:


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

Here is what mine looks like and the nutsert that I used to secure the top of the bag to the nipple.


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## hyphytrain203 (Jun 9, 2003)

you need a game plan man...

first things first i would decide on what the final goal is here. it sounds like you intend on keeping the air set-up so i would go ahead and start checking out what rear bags you want to run. many rear bag set-ups are installed differently. it would def help to figure out how you plan on mounting a new set-up before you start cutting up the old mess. 

search the forum for different set-ups and reviews - look into how they mount the rear air springs

you mentioned airlift... check out the instructions for installation on bagrider's website
this should be really helpful

research it through and you'll be in good shape, don't get yourself down over that **** :laugh:


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

hyphytrain203 said:


> you need a game plan man...
> 
> first things first i would decide on what the final goal is here. it sounds like you intend on keeping the air set-up so i would go ahead and start checking out what rear bags you want to run. many rear bag set-ups are installed differently. it would def help to figure out how you plan on mounting a new set-up before you start cutting up the old mess.
> 
> ...



So far I've emailed Airlift and Bag riders about the matter to get their opinion. Once I've done that, I'm getting the car up and cutting all that BS out of the rears to see what I have left to work with. I don't wanna go and order anything just yet though. I'm hoping I can draft up some sort of circular plate, maybe 1/8" thick stainless steel with the nutset I'll need welded right in the center of it? Then weld that up to the frame on center as best I can. Would that be going too far, or not enough? Opinions?


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

IRRELEPHANT said:


> So far I've emailed Airlift and Bag riders about the matter to get their opinion. Once I've done that, I'm getting the car up and cutting all that BS out of the rears to see what I have left to work with. I don't wanna go and order anything just yet though. I'm hoping I can draft up some sort of circular plate, maybe 1/8" thick stainless steel with the nutset I'll need welded right in the center of it? Then weld that up to the frame on center as best I can. Would that be going too far, or not enough? Opinions?


Sounds like a good idea to me except idk if the nutsert is weldable because its pretty maluable so that the tool can expand it inside the nipple..i would def try to fine a junked csr and cut the nipple out or use some square tubing to make a new one.. Its oly to keep the bsg in place becauseairlifts have a round top bracket that oncescrewed into placeit touches the flat part of the frame and at that poiint the nipple has nothing to do with it.. Is only for holding it in place frontback and sideside


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## hyphytrain203 (Jun 9, 2003)

sounds like a good plan to me man. my only advice is to get the bags you plan on using before you start welding the new perch onto the frame rail. i would utilize the bag of choice fastened to your lower control arm to help locate where to tack the perch. fasten the bag to the control arm, jack everything up, take careful measurements.

imo, this is more ideal than making adjustments to an already welded perch to accomodate the new bag. i have found that these bags, given our suspension geometry, work better if offset more towards the centerline of the car rather than dead on with the location of the nub.

keep us updated :thumbup:


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## Tofik (May 7, 2007)

hyphytrain203 said:


> sounds like a good plan to me man. my only advice is to get the bags you plan on using before you start welding the new perch onto the frame rail. i would utilize the bag of choice fastened to your lower control arm to help locate where to tack the perch. fasten the bag to the control arm, jack everything up, take careful measurements.
> 
> imo, this is more ideal than making adjustments to an already welded perch to accomodate the new bag. i have found that these bags, given our suspension geometry, work better if offset more towards the centerline of the car rather than dead on with the location of the nub.
> 
> keep us updated :thumbup:


Centerline of the car? I noticed the bag leans towards the front of the car ,nfor it to be perfectly vertical would mean the top of the bag should be moved towards the rear no?


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

Anybody want to give me some crude drawings to work with? I'm a 3D modeler and anything to help me along is the way would be appreciated.


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## hyphytrain203 (Jun 9, 2003)

ah, you're right!

i just finished my mkv rear setup, which the control arm rotates about the centerline of the car.

mkiv control arms rotate along the midsection of the car, perpindicular to the centerline axis -- which means the bag rotates towards the front of the car as it is lowered.

just found a pic of a mkiv geometry










OP, check out this thread for some good pictures


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## no vtec 4me (Aug 1, 2006)

this really isn't that big of a problem. you don't even need to change your rear bags. Take your car to someone who can weld (assuming you can't), cut that bracket off completely and get all the metal cleaned up. make a new bracket (that style should work just fine) and have it welded correctly, and have it sealed up correctly so it doesn't rust like that again. That should cost you anywhere from 200-400 dollars depending where you go and the extent of the "damage"....not a huge mistake and it can easily be fixed and be 1000% safe and functional


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

no vtec 4me said:


> this really isn't that big of a problem. you don't even need to change your rear bags. Take your car to someone who can weld (assuming you can't), cut that bracket off completely and get all the metal cleaned up. make a new bracket (that style should work just fine) and have it welded correctly, and have it sealed up correctly so it doesn't rust like that again. That should cost you anywhere from 200-400 dollars depending where you go and the extent of the "damage"....not a huge mistake and it can easily be fixed and be 1000% safe and functional


Thanks for the support. I have a few friends who can weld and grind so I won't have to pay too much to fix it, its just a huge headache for me. I want to replace the rear bags because one is already popped from rubbing the control arm and they aren't even meant for the mk4 rear so all in all i'm looking at spending about 400 on bags from bag riders and some loose change for whatever fittings I'll need.

Oh, and I want to do it the right way so the next owner doesn't have to go thru the same BS as me because karma is a b*tch.


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## eurotrsh (Dec 25, 2004)

I'm with no vtec, may it be a ****ty job, this is easily fixable all without needing new rear bags.


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

eurotrsh said:


> I'm with no vtec, may it be a ****ty job, this is easily fixable all without needing new rear bags.


Well one bag is already popped from rubbing the control arm. I'd rather bite the bullet and spend the cash on the right ones.


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## eurotrsh (Dec 25, 2004)

Well in that case, go nuts. You can go with Airlifts and just weld the upper bracket on as opposed to using a nutsert, I had to because the nutsert didnt expand right so we said eff it and welded her on. 

You can also go with any universal bag (Airhouse 2, Slam Specialties SS or RE-5, or something of the like and have a shop make an upper bracket for it.


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## IRRELEPHANT (Jun 30, 2011)

Update:
























































This is what I have left to work with, with that trash cut out. I don't think using the nutsert will work being that there is no nipple there so the flange will just hit the frame and not reach the inserted piece. Any recommendations?


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