# Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6???



## yrwei52 (Aug 22, 2002)

Many friends of mine believe that Cayenne and Touareg are the same SUV with different badges. But my understanding was they may have had join venture during the design and development, and the chassis may be the same, but the similarities stop from here. Are 247hp 3.2L V6 and 340hp 4.6L V8 on Cayenne the same as 220hp 3.2L V6 and 310hp 4.2L V8 on Touareg? Is the 6-Speed Tiptronic on Cayenne the same as 6-Speed Tiptronic on Touareg? Do they have the same AWD system?
Both engines from Porsche have more horsepower. The V8 on Cayenne has 32 valves and on Touareg, which is from Audi, has 40 valves. So V8’s definitely are different. But is V6 on Cayenne a VW’s 32v 15° VR6? The intake manifold on Porsche’s V6 sure looks like a single cylinder head design like VR6.








Tiptronic on Cayenne has only a single “D” position and manual shift gate is located towards the driver side like BMW’s Steptronic, which I feel is a much better design. But Touareg’s manual shift gate is at passenger side like all other VW and Audi’s. Are they using the same transmission or not?








Any thoughts?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (yrwei52)*

2005 Touareg V6 will have 240 hp. The V6 engines are the same except for different tuning and intake.
V8 engines are different. The Cayenne has a 4.5 liter engine. Touareg is 4.2 liters. 
Transmissions are basically the same but probably have different programming. The Cayenne doesn't have a sport mode like the Touareg has.
Cayennes are built in Bratislava, Slovakia, sans engine and transmission. Then shipped to Leipzig to have those components bolted in and final test. Touaregs are fully assembled and tested in Bratislava. 
Cayenne is given a more sporty feel. Touareg is $10k to $20k less expensive. In fact you can buy a Touareg V10 TDI for less than a Cayenne S or even a fully loaded Cayenne V6.


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## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (yrwei52)*

Spockcat forgot to answer the question on AWD.
AWD are similar (joint R&D). In T-reg it is called 4xMotion (different from Audi's quattro or other VW's quattro-based 4Motions). I do not know what it is called in the Pepper.
The T-reg's AWD is 50/50 (rear/front). The Pepper's is 62/38. Such a distro makes the T-reg a bit nose heavy but more capable in poor traction conditions. And this is what gives the Pepper a more sporty feel (apart from the stiffer springs).



_Modified by ****us at 2:43 PM 8-16-2004_


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## OffRoadGreyV8 (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (****us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *****us* »_Spockcat forgot to answer the question on AWD.
AWD are similar (joint R&D). In T-reg it is called 4xMotion (different from Audi's quattro or other VW's quattro-based 4Motions). I do not know what it is called in the Pepper.
The T-reg's AWD is 50/50 (rear/front). The Pepper's is 62/38. Such a distro makes the T-reg a bit nose heavy but more capable in poor traction conditions. And this is what gives the Pepper a more sporty feel (apart from the stiffer springs)

How can 50/50 make the nose feel heavier then 62/38????
One would think, 62 for the front would be the heaviest


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (OffRoadGreyV8)*

The Pepper's torque split is:
62-rear
38-front
Hope that clears up the "front end heavy" question.


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## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (OffRoadGreyV8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OffRoadGreyV8* »_
How can 50/50 make the nose feel heavier then 62/38????
One would think, 62 for the front would be the heaviest

Just read my post carefully. It is 62/38 (rear/front). The same convention as for the T-reg.


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## OffRoadGreyV8 (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (****us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *****us* »_
Just read my post carefully. It is 62/38 (rear/front). The same convention as for the T-reg. 

Yup. It wasn't stated for the Cayenne and most folks assume it's front/rear and not the other way around. (kinda like folks assume North is at the top of the map)


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## yrwei52 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (spockcat)*

Thanks for the info. Still it’s hard for me to think the V6 engines are the same by looking at these pictures:
Cayenne








Touareg








Also, how do they manage to use different shift pattern/manual shift gate by using the same Tiptronic transmissions? I would think Porsche’s transmission is similar to BMW’s simply because they have exactly the same shift pattern/gate design.
BMW 530i








Cayenne








Touareg


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (yrwei52)*

Those visible parts of the engine are - gasp







- plastic covers! Someone several months ago posted some pics with the covers off. Looks can be deceiving.
The shift gate pattern is easy. The tranny is electronically controlled. All they do is rearrange the switches for the physical design of the shifter. There is no mechanical linkage between the shifter and the tranny. (That's how the paddles on the steering wheel work for tip shifting - just switches - standard on Peppers, available on Touaregs outside the US.)


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (yrwei52)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yrwei52* »_Thanks for the info. Still it’s hard for me to think the V6 engines are the same by looking at these pictures:


That's what Porsche wants you to think. It is all marketing.


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## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (spockcat)*

I have to admit, the Porsche "version" of the engine _looks_ nicer.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (TCinOC)*

That's because it's special "expensive" Porsche plastic - not the cheaper "peoples" plastic.


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## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_That's because it's special "expensive" Porsche plastic - not the cheaper "peoples" plastic.









Oh yeah, I'm sure if we posted this question on some Cayenne boards we'll get an earful alright.







Only the finest handcrafted of plastics make it onto the Pepper. Then again that could mean the entire interior of a Pepper. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## yrwei52 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (4x4s)*

The intake manifold on Cayenne V6 is a real thing, not just plastic cover:
















It sure looks totally different from the one on Touareg.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (yrwei52)*

The intake is one of the things Porsche changed to give thier version more HP. But compare the pics you posted:
















There's still a plastic cover making it appear that the Porsche V6 has two cylinder heads, as in a wide angle V6, rather than the narrow angle V6 that it really is.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (4x4s)*

Yup, all marketing to make you think the Cayenne uses a different engine than the Touareg engine. But I did say that they used different intakes. Here is the Touareg's intake:


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## cyberdog (Jun 1, 2000)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (spockcat)*

actually i don't think the different intakes made 20 or so hp difference, it's all in the programming. I mean, it's not like the old 12v VR6 with normal intake and the VSR variable intake, starting from the 24v VR6 or Mk4 12v VR6 in the states, they all use variable intake already, so just a bigger or different route intake would NOT make that much of a difference. and besides, the TT 3.2 VR6 using the exact same engine with the exact same intake is pushing 250BHP and the R32, also with the exact same engine and the exact same intake is pushing 240BHP!


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (cyberdog)*

That is what I said in my first post. Different tuning and intake from the Cayenne.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (cyberdog)*

Correct. The Porsche intake was just _one_ of the things they changed. And, as you say, there are other things that contribute as much, if not more. (That plastic cover, that says "Porsche" on it must contribute at least 10hp by itself.







)


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (4x4s)*

The exterior badges are certianly good for another 20 "seat of the pants" hp. In fact there was a guy on Renlst who wanted to find a Porsche badge for the back of his Cayenne. I guess he wants more power.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (spockcat)*

The intake for the Porsche may be different looking but in terms of function it is essentially identical to that of the Touareg. In fact - look at the intakes of the TT or R32 and they are putting out 250hp and 240hp (well on paper - it's really 250) and they are identical. The Touareg tuning is different that the Porsche's in part to bring the torque on at a lower rpm and to limit to the hp rating due to the agreement with Porsche. The 05's have 240hp now since the agreement has lapsed. I will bet money the intakes are the same as the 220hp versions.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The intake for the Porsche may be different looking but in terms of function it is essentially identical to that of the Touareg. In fact - look at the intakes of the TT or R32 and they are putting out 250hp and 240hp (well on paper - it's really 250) and they are identical. The Touareg tuning is different that the Porsche's in part to bring the torque on at a lower rpm and to limit to the hp rating due to the agreement with Porsche. The 05's have 240hp now since the agreement has lapsed. I will bet money the intakes are the same as the 220hp versions. 

Tell 2004 V6 owners how to get 240 hp from their cars and you will MAKE money!


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Tell 2004 V6 owners how to get 240 hp from their cars and you will MAKE money!

Well I will bet money that it would be as simple as an ECU reflash - but don't quote me on that








APR has developed a chip for the R32 and TT 3.2 that is reportedly putting down some good numbers - about a 20hp increase at the crank or more. Give them or GIAC a call and bug the hell out of them. We're talking 270hp with a simple reflash here.


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## cyberdog (Jun 1, 2000)

*Re: Cayenne V6 = Touareg V6??? ([email protected])*

i'm still waiting for GIAC........... actually, i just wanna get rid of the DBW lag............


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## MiguelT (Oct 12, 2000)

Does the Pepper use a Bosch ECU as well?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (MiguelT)*

If you are thinking about a simple ECU swap, I think you are inviting trouble. I was told by Uwe Ross that the Cayenne isn't compatible with the VAG-COM. So I suspect that an ECU swap wouldn't work either.


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## cyberdog (Jun 1, 2000)

*Re: (spockcat)*

yeah, don't do ECU swap unless both the bosch and VW # matches exactly, worst case you'll fry all the other control units and void your warranty !


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