# I hate CIS how hard is the conversion to Carbs?



## MKVdubbin (Apr 24, 2007)

Ok so my little bunny has treated me fairly well in the time I've owned her (about 4 1/2 years) but now she just won't start. I have fuel up as far as the cis and I just tore apart the top half to clean it out. I may be able to get it running again but I want to know what my options are. Id love to ditch all this complicated Bulls#it for a simple carb set up if possible. maybe even ITB with motorcycle carbs. problem is I'm clueless on this one. any advise would be awesome especially since my 1989 dodge omni will likely be next on the list for simplification. My rabbit is an 84.5 so it has the 1.8l JH 8V. and CIS 1 i believe. Thanks in advance for any help.:thumbup::thumb up:

EYE Candy for inspiration
this was last year at H20


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

how about megasquirt ?
http://www.spitfireefi.com/products.shtml


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## n0style (May 24, 2012)

mines doing the same thing. i checked my aux air valve (on the back of the intake manifold), pull the hose and see if its open when the car is cold right before you start it in the morning. i checked mine and its closed at all times. and i also have 12v at the heater connector. so instead of paying $250++ for a new one, i was leaning towards the weber idf 40 (k403) kit. for around $500 and $65 for the fuel pump, it seems like itll be quite a headache solver. and also you cant beat the look of a couple of air horns sticking up from the back of the engine either!!


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## ShaggyMutt1 (Jun 19, 2012)

Don't switch to carb they are a PITA I think. I had the dual weber on my old Rocco and the kit was made for vw 8v so they are saying that carb kit is jetted for 1.6-2.0 engines? Man I had a ABA JH Hybrid in there and after 2 years it still didnt run exactly right!! Plus I took it to GA mountains for camping and because of altitude change!! Carbs suck!! 

Just take time to fix your CIS


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

only those who dont completely understand CIS, say that it is complicated.. 

it is actually about on par with a carburator, complicated wise.. 

you just gotta tune CIS ALOT LESS than carbs!! 

why not just get it running right, and call it good? 

either that, or go to mega-squirt, or something equivalent..


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

n0style said:


> mines doing the same thing. i checked my aux air valve (on the back of the intake manifold), pull the hose and see if its open when the car is cold right before you start it in the morning. i checked mine and its closed at all times. and i also have 12v at the heater connector. so instead of paying $250++ for a new one, i was leaning towards the weber idf 40 (k403) kit. for around $500 and $65 for the fuel pump, it seems like itll be quite a headache solver. and also you cant beat the look of a couple of air horns sticking up from the back of the engine either!!


 do you like to tune your car every week? 

or tune it because it rains? 

or tune it because its cold out? 

and do you want to babysit your car while its warming up? 

carbs are a friggen headache..


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

I have a 16V Rabbit truck on Webers I love it. 

I also totally agree with Glegor. 

A single 32/36 weber is much less finicky than a pair of dcoes. 

Still I would fix the CIS. 

My truck runs like hell, goes real fast and drinks gas. My Scirocco had a very similar engine on CIS-E, made 150 to the wheels on dyno jet and still managed 30mpg.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

> kit was made for vw 8v so they are saying that carb kit is jetted for 1.6-2.0 engines? . . . after 2 years it still didnt run exactly right!! Plus I took it to GA mountains for camping and because of altitude change!!
> 
> do you like to tune your car every week?
> 
> ...


 I think I am beginning to understand the term generation gap a lot more now. If any of the above were remotely true the advancement of automobiles from the beginning would have been a very hard birth. OK, there is a tiny bit of truth to a small fraction of the above, but please, talk about over exaggerating . 

I grew up driving and working on cars equipped with carburetors. Even before I started driving all the “family” cars were equipped with carburetors, as were our lawn mowers, my mini-bikes and the chainsaw. They did not need constant tuning of any kind and for sure did not need any tuning for rain or cold weather. The kits sold have a “fine print” that tells you that they may need fine tuning for your particular application, but that should be a no brainer anyhow as no two engines will most times use the same settings. Altitude will have an effect on carbureted engines, but it also has an effect on injected engines. That is just physics and it effects anything that uses air to burn. Some high end or much newer engines compensate for altitude but not VW CIS models of the 80’s and 90’s. The O2 sensor does help adjust to some degree but it too can’t help in extreme cases. The effects of altitude changes in most cases is not really that much and I can’t remember myself or anyone having their engines “tuned” for taking a trip into the mountains, it just ran a little bit rich. I did change the tuning if I towed a vehicle to a high elevation race track, but you are always tinkering with race cars anyway. 

If anyone has any issues with a carbureted engine that falls outside the fuel consumption and emissions areas then it is a simple matter of not knowing how to work on them. By work on them I mean understand their functioning, correct application, tuning, troubleshoot and repairing of them, not just slapping one or a pair on an engine. Of all the cars I have owned or worked on, my family has owned or anyone I know who owned a carburetor equipped car, I can’t remember any warm-up babysitting. I did have to baby some of the “race” built cars I owned or worked on due to the type of carburetor used but who cars at the race track, right? What someone wants to use to run their engine is their business as far as I am concerned. Be it mechanical fuel injection, electronic fuel injection, carburetors or a gas tank on the roof with a hose. I don’t see why people often feel the need to try and change the minds of others. If he wants to use carburetors then so be it, they have been around for over a hundred years so as they say, “You can’t knock success”. 

Help with carburetors I can supply but installing bike carbs is something I have not done. Could maybe stumble through some help there too, but mostly I deal with common brand automotive carburetors.


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## ShaggyMutt1 (Jun 19, 2012)

WaterWheels said:


> I think I am beginning to understand the term generation gap a lot more now. If any of the above were remotely true the advancement of automobiles from the beginning would have been a very hard birth. OK, there is a tiny bit of truth to a small fraction of the above, but please, talk about over exaggerating .
> 
> I grew up driving and working on cars equipped with carburetors. Even before I started driving all the “family” cars were equipped with carburetors, as were our lawn mowers, my mini-bikes and the chainsaw. They did not need constant tuning of any kind and for sure did not need any tuning for rain or cold weather. The kits sold have a “fine print” that tells you that they may need fine tuning for your particular application, but that should be a no brainer anyhow as no two engines will most times use the same settings. Altitude will have an effect on carbureted engines, but it also has an effect on injected engines. That is just physics and it effects anything that uses air to burn. Some high end or much newer engines compensate for altitude but not VW CIS models of the 80’s and 90’s. The O2 sensor does help adjust to some degree but it too can’t help in extreme cases. The effects of altitude changes in most cases is not really that much and I can’t remember myself or anyone having their engines “tuned” for taking a trip into the mountains, it just ran a little bit rich. I did change the tuning if I towed a vehicle to a high elevation race track, but you are always tinkering with race cars anyway.
> 
> ...


 I guess your the kinda guy that drives a car rather its running right or running like spit!! "Oh well it runs" Right! Good enough.....:sly:


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

ShaggyMutt1 said:


> I guess your the kinda guy that drives a car rather its running right or running like spit!! "Oh well it runs" Right! Good enough.....:sly:


 HAHAHA :facepalm:


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## n0style (May 24, 2012)

WaterWheels said:


> I think I am beginning to understand the term generation gap a lot more now. If any of the above were remotely true the advancement of automobiles from the beginning would have been a very hard birth. OK, there is a tiny bit of truth to a small fraction of the above, but please, talk about over exaggerating .
> 
> I grew up driving and working on cars equipped with carburetors. Even before I started driving all the “family” cars were equipped with carburetors, as were our lawn mowers, my mini-bikes and the chainsaw. They did not need constant tuning of any kind and for sure did not need any tuning for rain or cold weather. The kits sold have a “fine print” that tells you that they may need fine tuning for your particular application, but that should be a no brainer anyhow as no two engines will most times use the same settings. Altitude will have an effect on carbureted engines, but it also has an effect on injected engines. That is just physics and it effects anything that uses air to burn. Some high end or much newer engines compensate for altitude but not VW CIS models of the 80’s and 90’s. The O2 sensor does help adjust to some degree but it too can’t help in extreme cases. The effects of altitude changes in most cases is not really that much and I can’t remember myself or anyone having their engines “tuned” for taking a trip into the mountains, it just ran a little bit rich. I did change the tuning if I towed a vehicle to a high elevation race track, but you are always tinkering with race cars anyway.
> 
> ...


 thanks :thumbup: all i had growing up were carbed cars, my 74 roadrunner with an edelbrock/weber. ran great for years. never jetted, always started cold or hot, rain or snow, never had to babysit. i even removed the choke plate, and still never had a problem. so either way carbed or CIS, who the hell cares, i have my own reasons. and yes, im one of those "oh well, it runs type of people" btw. and i do completely understand CIS, carbs, and EFI. i just like carbs


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

You have to understand the general build quality, tolerances, etc on a set of Weber DCOEs or Dellortos, the linkage, even the castings, do not compare with typical US carbs. However they typically perform quite well, especially wide open. If you doubt the lack of build quality in vintage style Italian carbs I got a few words for you: Fiat, Lancia, Alfa, even old Ferraris. Even the nuts and bolts that come with a set of webers are cheap cheesy hardware. 

Its a shame they quit building them but the Mikuni PHH 40s and 44s (Jap licensed copy of an Italian Solex carb) were much better carbs: start, run, perform, stay in tune, better mileage, just all around better than the Italian stuff although they look almost identical. 

Another example is the PMO, California made copy of a triple barrel Weber for Porsches. By simply maintaining closer tolerances and taking more time to make them perfect, they are a bolt on 30-40HP on a flat 6, start better, run better, etc, yet they are a "copy" of a Weber that came on the car new. 

Perhaps Benelli should take over Weber....


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

ShaggyMutt1 said:


> I guess your the kinda guy that drives a car rather its running right or running like spit!!


 I guess your (were) the kind of student that when asked what 1 plus 1 equalled you answered 3. Just where do you people come up with these asinine things to say when someone disagrees with what you posted or has a different opinion then your own? Just how on earth do you take what I posted and come up with a profile of me that includes my driving cars which don‘t run well or could care less if they did? Can you explain your logic here? 

What I am, if you really care to know, is the kind of guy who likes things simple and because of that I like them to be correct. I‘m the kind of guy that if something does not function correctly, I fix it. I don‘t live with it because I can‘t correct it or I‘m to lazy. I either already know how to repair it or adjust it to function correctly or I learn how and do it as soon as I can. What kind of guy are you that drives a car for 2 years that doesn‘t run correctly and blames it on the parts you were sold instead of correcting things? To me that sounds like *you're* the kind of guy you claim I am, no?


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## ShaggyMutt1 (Jun 19, 2012)

WaterWheels said:


> I guess your (were) the kind of student that when asked what 1 plus 1 equalled you answered 3. Just where do you people come up with these asinine things to say when someone disagrees with what you posted or has a different opinion then your own? Just how on earth do you take what I posted and come up with a profile of me that includes my driving cars which don‘t run well or could care less if they did? Can you explain your logic here?
> 
> What I am, if you really care to know, is the kind of guy who likes things simple and because of that I like them to be correct. I‘m the kind of guy that if something does not function correctly, I fix it. I don‘t live with it because I can‘t correct it or I‘m to lazy. I either already know how to repair it or adjust it to function correctly or I learn how and do it as soon as I can. What kind of guy are you that drives a car for 2 years that doesn‘t run correctly and blames it on the parts you were sold instead of correcting things? To me that sounds like *you're* the kind of guy you claim I am, no?


 So what your saying is that you have to constantly adjust your carbed car?? SO I was right?


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Listen, if you happen to be a special needs person then please let me know and if so I’m sorry I asked you to explain yourself. If you have a reading comprehension problem then again, sorry, just let me know and I’ll just forget what you said. If none of the above is true then the least you can do is attempt to explain yourself. Even a rock with lips would not come to the conclusions or make the assumptions you have made about someone from reading what was posted. Again, just how do you get me always adjusting anything from stating that I fix what’s not right? You just are not making any kind of intelligent statements. Instead of trying to be cute, try to show some education, or at least make an attempt to.


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## BROsiah (Jul 25, 2011)

ShaggyMutt1 said:


> I guess your the kinda guy that drives a car rather its running right or running like spit!! "Oh well it runs" Right! Good enough.....:sly:


 
its funny how people think carbs just come out of adjustment :screwy: or you have to mess with them all the time. the people who are always messing with them all the time are the ones who did not have them tuned right in the first place or are chasing problems that have nothing to do with the carb . sure in some sort of HUGE elevation or temp change you will have to re jet but other than they the work fine. i mean what do you people think everyone did back in the day before FI? 
its not like everyone had to go "tune" the car every week or something just cause it was cold that week 

the bottom line is make sure your engine and carbs are in good mechanical condition tune them *right* and the will work fine for years . and if you dont know what the "right" way is stop talking about something you know nothing about


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## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

ShaggyMutt1 said:


> Don't switch to carb they are a PITA I think. I had the dual weber on my old Rocco and the kit was made for vw 8v so they are saying that carb kit is jetted for 1.6-2.0 engines? Man I had a ABA JH Hybrid in there and after 2 years it still didnt run exactly right!! Plus I took it to GA mountains for camping and because of altitude change!! Carbs suck!!
> 
> Just take time to fix your CIS


 Whatever. Seriously. 

Get a weber 32/36 kit disconnect all your CIS wires follow the directions it will be running in 2 hours if you follow the instructions. 

If you're down in H20 and see me start doing jumping jacks and i'll pull over so I can show you how simple it is. 

Switching to carbs from a worn out cis system was the best decision i've ever made. CIS is a good system but it deteriorates and can be hard to track down unless you have specific tools and a lot of time. 

Plus carbs sound ****ing dirty and I love hitting the secondary. 

Video for reference, dude in the video is the one who convinced me to swap it and he was 100% right. hahah


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## ShaggyMutt1 (Jun 19, 2012)

Can you run 10:1 compression on the Progressive kit?


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## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

ShaggyMutt1 said:


> Can you run 10:1 compression on the Progressive kit?


Yes


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