# CBFA Highflow Cat/Testpipe CEL Fix Thread



## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

I brought this up in another thread but figured it would be easier to find if there was a dedicated thread. Anyone that has a CBFA car and has a high flow cat or a tespipe will know that the CEL is tricky to eliminate. 

For those of us that do not have the luxury of no state emissions or lax state emissions the APR stg2 software will not work due to the readiness codes not being set. I know for a fact that in Northern VA you will not pass without readiness codes. 

I currently have a Eurojet v1 downpipe with a 200cell cat on my 08 CBFA GTi. I managed to eliminate the CEL by using the following:

BFI Spacer on 2nd o2 sensor:









RAI J-pipe spacer on the 3rd o2 sensor utilizing the smallest insert:









I've put 500 miles on the car with the spacers and no CEL. Scanned for codes, nothing 

*ViRtUaLheretic* was able to do the same with the following: 

Wayne Angle Block:









42DD spacer:









Autozone spark plug non fouler (part number 42002):








http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...*-Non-fouler?p=3234486&viewfull=1#post3234486

If anyone else has managed to trick the pesky CBFA motor, please feel free to post up.

Hope this helps.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

I LOVE THIS THREAD


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Good idea to make a dedicated thread. :thumbup:

Should also be noted that I have a catless Eurojet v1 downpipe.
The CEL does come back sporatically but it goes away on its own after some time.


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## hotshot100 (Nov 23, 2007)

witch one is the best with a eurojet V2 no cat .

currently I have no ecu modification since im still under warranty.


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## yohoitztho (Jul 27, 2008)

i was looking on stratmosphere's website.
they have a spacer solution with cat insides. looks promising!

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

hotshot100 said:


> witch one is the best with a eurojet V2 no cat .
> 
> currently I have no ecu modification since im still under warranty.


I think that both the options I listed should work for you. Because you do not have a cat, you may need to use a non-fouler. Try two spacers first though. I would not recommend the BFI on the 3rd bung though, too much exhaust stream. I'd only use it on the 2nd o2 bung. 

Does anyone know if the wayne angle blocks still in production? I had one years ago on myB5 A4 but I thought he stopped production.


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

yohoitztho said:


> i was looking on stratmosphere's website.
> they have a spacer solution with cat insides. looks promising!
> 
> Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2


This looks promising:
http://www.stratmosphere.com/product/spacercat90/12









Unfortunately they are also sold out.


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## Poprocks01 (Mar 29, 2011)

kaban said:


> This looks promising:
> http://www.stratmosphere.com/product/spacercat90/12
> 
> 
> ...


Great thread.

I have the Billy Boat dp with 200 cell HFC. I tried both the straight and the angle Stratmosphere spacer. Installed on the final O2 sensor, neither of them eliminated the P0420 CEL for me.

I'm going to try two spacers, one on each of the 2nd and 3rd sensors. I have the 42DD one, so that's going on the 2nd spacer and one of the Stratmospheres will go on the 3rd.

Wish me luck!


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Good Luck. It seems that 2 spacers on the 2nd and 3rd o2 bung is the winning combination. I also tried several spacers on the 3rd bung only and failed to clear the CEL.


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## Poprocks01 (Mar 29, 2011)

kaban said:


> Good Luck. It seems that 2 spacers on the 2nd and 3rd o2 bung is the winning combination. I also tried several spacers on the 3rd bung only and failed to clear the CEL.


Yes, and the two spacer method was specifically recommended by my tuner. Now I just have to find a few moments to crawl under there and git r done.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

You have a Eurojet V1 downpipe, thats what I currently have but I am getting rid of it when I go K04. Is yours the one like mine that already has the last o2 sensor spaced out a bit, then you added the RAI J-spacer?


I'm curious to see if your combo or Virtual's will work on an APR downpipe to defeat the CEL, thats what I will be getting soon.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

Poprocks01 said:


> Great thread.
> 
> I have the Billy Boat dp with 200 cell HFC. I tried both the straight and the angle Stratmosphere spacer. Installed on the final O2 sensor, neither of them eliminated the P0420 CEL for me.
> 
> ...



I would suggest using the 42DD on the 2nd spacer, then drilling out a non-fouler (or 2) like Virtual did and using the angle stratmosphere on the last one. The point is to "step down" the emissions through the o2 sensors in order to not have them throw codes. The 2nd sensor is supposed to be "cleaner" than the one on the turbo, and the last o2 sensor is supposed to be even "cleaner" since it passed through another cat on the OEM downpipe.


Do not just add 2 equivalent spacers, one on each port, and expect the CEL to stay off. Hope that helps


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Ricky Bobby said:


> You have a Eurojet V1 downpipe, thats what I currently have but I am getting rid of it when I go K04. Is yours the one like mine that already has the last o2 sensor spaced out a bit, then you added the RAI J-spacer?
> 
> I'm curious to see if your combo or Virtual's will work on an APR downpipe to defeat the CEL, thats what I will be getting soon.


Technically the downpipe that I have is not actually a "eurojet" product but its the exact same design, including the pretty welds  I was surprised to see a unitronic badge on my downpipe but the guy/company that sold it to me locally said these will not be a unitronic product. 

















My CEL came back on last night, need to scan and see if its the p420 code or something else. My guess is p420. I know Virtual has mentioned that his CEL comes back on from time to time, my guess is that its the same for me. I put about 600 miles on the car before the CEL came back on. I had the same issue with my ATW 1.8T that had sensitive o2 sensors.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

I say put the middle jet on the RAI spacer and use a non-fouler on it to bring it further out. the smallest jet may not let enough emissions past and you may be throwing a intermittent code for the o2 not getting enough for a reading.


let me know what code you are throwing intermittently!


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Ricky Bobby said:


> I say put the middle jet on the RAI spacer and use a non-fouler on it to bring it further out. the smallest jet may not let enough emissions past and you may be throwing a intermittent code for the o2 not getting enough for a reading.
> 
> 
> let me know what code you are throwing intermittently!


I'll scan it tonight and will report back.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I have the fix for the CEL.

2012 4dr DSG CBFA running APR Stage 2 NON-Testpipe file and the *AWE Downpipe*.

Over 2000 miles now, no CEL, no soft codes. Just strong linear power from down low all the way up top. Installed EXACTLY as per the instructions by yours truly.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

NoRegrets78 said:


> I have the fix for the CEL.
> 
> 2012 4dr DSG CBFA running APR Stage 2 NON-Testpipe file and the *AWE Downpipe*.
> 
> Over 2000 miles now, no CEL, no soft codes. Just strong linear power from down low all the way up top. Installed EXACTLY as per the instructions by yours truly.



I've been debating doing that myself. AWE downpipe with a Eurosport catback or something similar, do you run stock catback?

Damn CBFA's are so touchy, I would hate having an intermittent CEL. And I have inspection in 13 then every 2 years after for emissions.


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

NoRegrets78 said:


> I have the fix for the CEL.
> 
> 2012 4dr DSG CBFA running APR Stage 2 NON-Testpipe file and the *AWE Downpipe*.
> 
> Over 2000 miles now, no CEL, no soft codes. Just strong linear power from down low all the way up top. Installed EXACTLY as per the instructions by yours truly.


So what is special about the AWE downpipe to prevent the car from throwing a p420 code?


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

kaban said:


> So what is special about the AWE downpipe to prevent the car from throwing a p420 code?


Apparently according to AWE their HJS German made cats are more efficient even at the same 200 cell level, and they have perfected the use of spacers.

If you look on their website and downpipe install intstructions, they include a large hole and small hole spacer with their downpipes. the large hole spacer goes on the 2nd o2, and the small hole spacer goes on the last o2 sensor.


However, if you look "more closley-er" (obscure reference) you can see in the pic of their downpipe that the 3rd o2 actually has a built in spacer on the pipe itself, THEN you add the spacer they provide with the smallest jet.




Which is why I am saying maybe the RAI spacer is good, but needs an extra spark plug fouler on there to "bring it out" enough from the exhaust stream.


I wish AWE would sell us the spacers separately, I wonder if using them maybe in combo with a non-fouler on the 3rd one would do the trick.



AWE, if you are listening, do your spacers get sold separately?


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Ricky Bobby said:


> I've been debating doing that myself. AWE downpipe with a Eurosport catback or something similar, do you run stock catback?
> 
> Damn CBFA's are so touchy, I would hate having an intermittent CEL. And I have inspection in 13 then every 2 years after for emissions.


Had the AWE Catback for about 1000 miles first, but it was a tad too loud for me. Running the stock cat back now.



kaban said:


> So what is special about the AWE downpipe to prevent the car from throwing a p420 code?


HJS cat as stated above does some of the work, the rest is their use of spacers.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

NoRegrets78 said:


> Had the AWE Catback for about 1000 miles first, but it was a tad too loud for me. Running the stock cat back now.
> 
> 
> 
> HJS cat as stated above does some of the work, the rest is their use of spacers.



Hey no regrets, can you take a pic of your AWE downpipe under your car and do some measurements for me as far as the use of spacers? I'd like to try and combine the info we have with the 2 other people who have made spacers work, and the AWE spacer info as well.

I know that their "long spacer with large hole" is installed before the cat, can you measure the length of that spacer? and the "short spacer with small hole" is installed after the cat, but is there an already spaced out section before the spacer is installed? 

the pic of the downpipe on their install instructions looks that way. 



To the 2 guys (virtual and kaban) who have defeated it, maybe you should use exhaust paste at the slip joints like AWE recommends with their exhaust in order to have a control factor and keep out the possibility of leaks??? perhaps that is the cause of the intermittent CEL?


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Ricky Bobby said:


> I say put the middle jet on the RAI spacer and use a non-fouler on it to bring it further out. the smallest jet may not let enough emissions past and you may be throwing a intermittent code for the o2 not getting enough for a reading.
> 
> 
> let me know what code you are throwing intermittently!


Ended up being a p2096 code. Time to track down the exhaust leak.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

kaban said:


> Ended up being a p2096 code. Time to track down the exhaust leak.


Which bank was it on, bank 2 or 3?

That's good! That means you may have foiled the CEL for a catalyst efficiency code with your spacers, which I am highly happy to hear, like I said AWE recommends exhaust paste at all slip joints (and in your case V-bands), why not try throwing some paste on the bands and see if it helps? I'd pay attention to the joint before the cat and after the cat.

My current exhaust does not throw CEL's but I do have black soot marks from small leaks, so i think exhaust paste is a must use on our sensitive CBFA.

And also, did you use a new gasket with your install?


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Ricky Bobby said:


> Which bank was it on, bank 2 or 3?
> 
> That's good! That means you may have foiled the CEL with your spacers, which I am highly happy to hear, like I said AWE recommends exhaust paste at all slip joints (and in your case V-bands), why not try throwing some paste on the bands and see if it helps? I'd pay attention to the joint before the cat and after the cat.
> 
> And also, did you use a new gasket with your install?


I forgot to write down the bank, but I believe it was bank 2. I did use a new turbo gasket and recently double checked all the v-band clamps. May need to get it up in the air again and re-tighten all the vband clamps. I did have an issue with the 1st o2 bung (for fsi motors) on the downpipe a week or so ago. The bung plug backed out and I had a massive leak, I thought I fixed it but that also may be the culprit although I did clear the codes after I re-tightened the plug, applying some liquid steel for good measure. Taking the car to my exhaust guy this weekend with a 12 pack for his services.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Ricky Bobby said:


> Hey no regrets, can you take a pic of your AWE downpipe under your car and do some measurements for me as far as the use of spacers? I'd like to try and combine the info we have with the 2 other people who have made spacers work, and the AWE spacer info as well.
> 
> I know that their "long spacer with large hole" is installed before the cat, can you measure the length of that spacer? and the "short spacer with small hole" is installed after the cat, but is there an already spaced out section before the spacer is installed?
> 
> ...


Been raining for 2 weeks. I will have to jack up to take a look at the spring seats for a clunk I'm having so I'll do the measurements at the same time as soon as the weather clears.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Here are pics of the spacers dead on installed to hold you over:


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

NoRegrets78 said:


> Here are pics of the spacers dead on installed to hold you over:


I think we may be on to something and thank you for the pics now and the measurements later! that spacer with the large hole is very large, which could be the reason it is longer, to give enough reading to the spacer but not have as much to flow over.

the long spacer with small hole is to keep the emissions as clean as possible but if it is pulled too far away it wont have enough exhaust flow to get a reading and you will trip a CEL for that code.


Kaban, any soot on your pipes indicating a leak? If it's bank 2 related to the CEL you can basically track it down to the area between the 2nd o2 (pre cat) on your car and the turbo flange on your downpipe. Check for leaks there, and even the connections for the BFI spacer you used there, remember those are all threaded connections which could use probably some anti seize or paste on the threads to keep it all sealed 100%.


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Ricky Bobby said:


> Kaban, any soot on your pipes indicating a leak? If it's bank 2 related to the CEL you can basically track it down to the area between the 2nd o2 (pre cat) on your car and the turbo flange on your downpipe. Check for leaks there, and even the connections for the BFI spacer you used there, remember those are all threaded connections which could use probably some anti seize or paste on the threads to keep it all sealed 100%.


Soot was the 1st thing I check, nothing. There is definitely a leak, I can hear it once I get in the throttle and the cel came back on after 20 miles. Need to get it on the lift and give everything a once over with paste/sealer.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Pre cat



















Post cat




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 84cabbydroptop (Aug 6, 2003)

i could use some help too, im getting pissed with the damn apr downpipe. i installed the 42dd spacer and still popping codes. it requires another spacer elsewhere to trick it?


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

84cabbydroptop said:


> i could use some help too, im getting pissed with the damn apr downpipe. i installed the 42dd spacer and still popping codes. it requires another spacer elsewhere to trick it?


Need two spacers. One pre cat one post cat. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

so it's about 1.25 inch length spacer in the rear with a small jet and a 1.75 inch in the front with a larger jet?

or is it 1 1/8 in the rear and 1.5 inch in the front length?


I know it was a tight space under there with a measuring tape and i thank you for the measurements!


I'm just trying to come to some collective solutions on how to fix this permanently, and I think we can come to the conclusion that the distance from the exhaust stream on the 2nd o2 sensor needs to be farther than the last o2, BUT the jet needs to be smaller on the 3rd o2 sensor.


I think the combo Kaban has done is perfect, if he can solve his exhaust leak and the P0296 code (not sure what that relates to). However, if he is still having issues, we can troubleshoot further and I would venture to say that using a 420002 nonfouler on the 2nd o2 in conjunction with his BFI spacer, may do well to pull that sensor out far enough, YET leave a big enough "sniffer hole" to get a reading on that sensor.



EDIT: If you look closely at the hole on the BFI spacer, it looks to be the diameter of the smallest insert on the RAI spacer. Perhaps that needs to be drilled out more for more flow? The pics NoRegrets78 posted show a hole diameter on the pre-cat o2 to be approx the size of the RAI middle jet, and the post o2 hole diameter to be approx the size of the smallest jet.



Now when looking at Virtuals photos, I can see why he needed additional non-foulers, if you look at the hole on the Wayne angle block, it is approx the size of the biggest jet on the RAI spacer! This spacer alone flows too much exhaust stream, which is why he uses nonfoulers on top of the spacer. 


Again these are just my opinions and once I get my garage cleaned up enough (I just bought a house and I'm getting married) and some parts I ordered in my hands I can do some playing around myself, sorry to be using you guys as guinea pigs!


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Managed to track down my leak last night. That damn pesky 1st o2 bung plug again. Had it tack welded in place, codes are gone and I'm CEL free. I want to put a few more hundred miles on the car before I say I defeated the p420, but so far so good. 

To add to my setup details, both of my spacers are set away from the exhaust stream so they are both facing toward the front of the car.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

1 1/2 Front, 1 1/8 rear from my perspective. Sorry they weren't more dead on, working on jack stands.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

kaban said:


> Managed to track down my leak last night. That damn pesky 1st o2 bung plug again. Had it tack welded in place, codes are gone and I'm CEL free. I want to put a few more hundred miles on the car before I say I defeated the p420, but so far so good.
> 
> To add to my setup details, both of my spacers are set away from the exhaust stream so they are both facing toward the front of the car.



Awesome to hear you fixed it! Keep us filled in and check your car for soft codes after 500-1000 miles or so! I will be doing a new exhaust setup soon and will be using some blue loctite on the threads of the o2 bung plug I believe, just to keep it from backing out. 

Going to order a BFI and RAI J-spacer as well, and make sure they face the front of the car!


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Ricky Bobby said:


> Awesome to hear you fixed it! Keep us filled in and check your car for soft codes after 500-1000 miles or so! I will be doing a new exhaust setup soon and will be using some blue loctite on the threads of the o2 bung plug I believe, just to keep it from backing out.
> 
> Going to order a BFI and RAI J-spacer as well, and make sure they face the front of the car!


Another suggestion, on the RAI spacer put some locktite on the insert as it doesn't sit snug and will rattle a little during start up, high rev etc. I'm really anal about little noises here and there so I need to pull mine off tomorrow and get some locktite on the insert.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

Duly noted!


EDIT: Thanks to MR. O.G. of the TSI forums mr. Ryan Mills, I have found his measurements for the AWE spacers and the diameter of their "flow holes".

LINK TO O2 SPACERS


This is the cliff's notes from seeing his pics:

Pre-cat sensor: 1/2" diameter flow hole, length of total spacer is 2" including threads, 1.5" spacer body not including threads

Post-cat sensor: 1/4" diameter flow hole, length of total spacer is 1 5/8" including threads, 1.18" spacer body not including threads



Now, our next experiment if Kaban wants to measure his UNUSED spacer jet on the RAI, is what is the diameter of the middle jet? If it's 1/2", and the smaller one is 1/4", we may be on to something yet again. I will email RAI and see if they can measure their long spacer as well for length and the diameters of the flow holes on the inserts.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I drilled out 2 of the 3 spark plug non foulers used to 1/2"


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## Johnotis10 (Apr 2, 2012)

Ive had the same issue with my 2011 gti... I have a eurojet tbe exhaust with there high flow cat and running stage 2 giac software.. All it took for me was a non-fouler on my second o2 censor and a 42dd spacer on my 3rd o2 censor..


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Johnotis10 said:


> Ive had the same issue with my 2011 gti... I have a eurojet tbe exhaust with there high flow cat and running stage 2 giac software.. All it took for me was a non-fouler on my second o2 censor and a 42dd spacer on my 3rd o2 censor..


Excellent! 

I'm still throwing a p0926 (fuel trim system too lean bank1) code and now a p0137 (oxygen sensor circuit low voltage bank1 sensor2) code. 

No P0420 though so that's one headache fixed. Dropping the car off at an exhaust shop so they can recheck all my vband clamps, turbo bolts and o2 sensors.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

kaban said:


> Excellent!
> 
> I'm still throwing a p0926 (fuel trim system too lean bank1) code and now a p0137 (oxygen sensor circuit low voltage bank1 sensor2) code.
> 
> No P0420 though so that's one headache fixed. Dropping the car off at an exhaust shop so they can recheck all my vband clamps, turbo bolts and o2 sensors.



I hate to say it but the P0137 for the sensor voltage may be the indication of a bad sensor, I had to get mine replaced under warranty when I first did my current downpipe.


Is the P0926 fuel trim too lean code related to any of the sensors? And no CEL from these correct, these are just soft codes?


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

Johnotis10 said:


> Ive had the same issue with my 2011 gti... I have a eurojet tbe exhaust with there high flow cat and running stage 2 giac software.. All it took for me was a non-fouler on my second o2 censor and a 42dd spacer on my 3rd o2 censor..


Non-fouler drilled out to 1/2"? Did you just use 1? Was it the 42002 Help part number listed from Virtual?

And also, does your 42DD spacer face the front of the car (away from the exhaust stream) or do you just have it mounted up however? And have you checked your car for soft codes like the op Kaban?


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Ricky Bobby said:


> I hate to say it but the P0137 for the sensor voltage may be the indication of a bad sensor, I had to get mine replaced under warranty when I first did my current downpipe.
> 
> 
> Is the P0926 fuel trim too lean code related to any of the sensors? And no CEL from these correct, these are just soft codes?


I did get a CEL from the codes but I'm not sure if it was due to the P0137 or P2096. I'm still under CPO warranty and a good friend of mine is a master tech at a local VW dealer so I should be able to get the o2 sensor replaced under warranty. I still think I have an exhaust leak so that may explain the P2096. I'm going to drop it off with my exhaust guy and have him go over each connection to make sure the seals are tight and probably slap some sealer paste for good measure.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

kaban said:


> I did get a CEL from the codes but I'm not sure if it was due to the P0137 or P2096. I'm still under CPO warranty and a good friend of mine is a master tech at a local VW dealer so I should be able to get the o2 sensor replaced under warranty. I still think I have an exhaust leak so that may explain the P2096. I'm going to drop it off with my exhaust guy and have him go over each connection to make sure the seals are tight and probably slap some sealer paste for good measure.



if its due to the sensor going bad, a lot of times its from the wires getting twisted on install or uninstall, or it getting knocked on the ground. the sensors are very sensitive, my installer in 2008 barely messed around with it yet it still "went bad".


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Ricky Bobby said:


> if its due to the sensor going bad, a lot of times its from the wires getting twisted on install or uninstall, or it getting knocked on the ground. the sensors are very sensitive, my installer in 2008 barely messed around with it yet it still "went bad".


Good thing I have a VW Tech hook up who will push it through as a warranty claim


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

keeping this bumped up from page 2 for anyone who is working on this!


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

plac from vortex defeated his CEL yesterday, here is link from golfmk6:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10334&page=63


Setup: Stock catback, Ultimate Racing downpipe with Ceramic cat, unresonated
No spacers on rear o2, 42DD right angle spacer on middle (pre-cat) o2 sensor, threaded halfway out.



hope this is helpful!


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## Poprocks01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Ricky Bobby said:


> plac from vortex defeated his CEL yesterday, here is link from golfmk6:
> 
> http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10334&page=63
> 
> ...


No spacer on the rear sensor?? I am intrigued, to say the least.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Poprocks01 said:


> No spacer on the rear sensor?? I am intrigued, to say the least.


 his DP had a cat


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## Poprocks01 (Mar 29, 2011)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> his DP had a cat


As does mine. I also have a 42DD spacer. Gonna try to duplicate his magic asap.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

Poprocks01 said:


> No spacer on the rear sensor?? I am intrigued, to say the least.



If you look around in that thread, Ultimate Racing makes their rear o2 port with a spacer built in, and a small hole drilled through. So in effect it has a spacer, just nothing additional on the rear.


Keep in mind that he also has a 400 cell ceramic cat which may give a cleaner reading than a 200cell metal that most of us run.


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## Poprocks01 (Mar 29, 2011)

Ricky Bobby said:


> If you look around in that thread, Ultimate Racing makes their rear o2 port with a spacer built in, and a small hole drilled through. So in effect it has a spacer, just nothing additional on the rear.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that he also has a 400 cell ceramic cat which may give a cleaner reading than a 200cell metal that most of us run.


Aha. Thanks. Well, I also have Stratmosphere spacers hanging around. So I'll put one on the last sensor.


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Got my all my codes sorted out today. P0137 fixed via a new o2 sensor (under warranty), p2096 fixed by tightening down 2 turbo nuts that were loose, no p420 in sight


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

kaban said:


> Got my all my codes sorted out today. P0137 fixed via a new o2 sensor (under warranty), p2096 fixed by tightening down 2 turbo nuts that were loose, no p420 in sight


 very good to hear!


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## BODH1 (Nov 24, 2011)

Ricky Bobby said:


> If you look around in that thread, Ultimate Racing makes their rear o2 port with a spacer built in, and a small hole drilled through. So in effect it has a spacer, just nothing additional on the rear.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that he also has a 400 cell ceramic cat which may give a cleaner reading than a 200cell metal that most of us run.


 I'm using a Unitronic/Eurojet downpipe with a 200cel cat. I tried replicating his set up using a 42DD spacer on the 2nd o2, threaded half way out. 40 miles and no luck yet. I'll know for sure tomorrow if this set up works or not, if not then i'll just get a non-fouler on the 2nd, 42dd on the 3rd.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

BODH1 said:


> I'm using a Unitronic/Eurojet downpipe with a 200cel cat. I tried replicating his set up using a 42DD spacer on the 2nd o2, threaded half way out. 40 miles and no luck yet. I'll know for sure tomorrow if this set up works or not, if not then i'll just get a non-fouler on the 2nd, 42dd on the 3rd.


 I posted on golfmk6 about this. 


Try replicating kaban's setup since you both have the same DP. 

BFI spacer on 2nd o2, RAI J-spacer with smallest insert on rear o2. And make sure you dont have an exhaust leak.


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## BODH1 (Nov 24, 2011)

Ricky Bobby said:


> I posted on golfmk6 about this.
> 
> 
> Try replicating kaban's setup since you both have the same DP.
> ...


 I also replied on the golfmkvi forum. The CEL is off at around 45 miles. I'll post back if it comes back on.


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

*Great Info here for CBFA!!*

Just want to say thanks to Kaban and Ricky Bobby and others in here for such great info! Finally a thread that doesn't get offtrack with smilies and 'I slept with your mom' posts, probably cause its not in the general forums! awesome! 


Ok guys Ive been doing my homework for months before i go stage 2, and now that i found this thread I really feel more confident about going stage 2! 

I am in NY with a CBFA(OBD2 emission tests here every year!):thumbdown:

Im going GIAC stage 2 and want to take advantage of their sale(which i think should be coming around Waterfest this July). I wont be getting my downpipe for about 6 weeks after the tune. Has anyone just run the stage 2 tune(moderately) with stock DP for a few weeks safely? I spose i could always leave it stock mode while waiting for DP too.

Now im torn between UR or EJ DPs. Both offered me great forum pricing(very close to eachother in cost) However the EJ will give me both test pipe AND 200CELL CAT pipe. So this makes me want to lean EJ, then i can simply use KABANs setup for spacers.

anyway, I will post more here when i get things going, this thread has more amazing info in 2 pages then any thread on Vortex! Great work on the AWE spacer sizes, its odd how the rear spacers on AWEs seem shorter, but i do believe their CAT is 400cell, so this might be the reason.

Im assuming with a hi flow 200cell CAT we need MORE spacing AFTER CAT, and LESS spacing BEFORE CAT.

Great work here people!
:wave:eace:


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## Johnotis10 (Apr 2, 2012)

rockerdan said:


> Just want to say thanks to Kaban and Ricky Bobby and others in here for such great info! Finally a thread that doesn't get offtrack with smilies and 'I slept with your mom' posts, probably cause its not in the general forums! awesome!
> 
> 
> Ok guys Ive been doing my homework for months before i go stage 2, and now that i found this thread I really feel more confident about going stage 2!
> ...


Just to let u know im am at giac stage 2 with a EJ tbe with there high flow cat.. I have a cbfa car aswell. To answer ur first question u cant go stage 2 without a downpipe.. Second i have a pretty good setup with my spacers and even though i have no check engine light it still throws a 0420 code. Hopefully when it comes to the time i can pass my inspection here in mass..


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

Johnotis10 said:


> Just to let u know im am at giac stage 2 with a EJ tbe with there high flow cat.. I have a cbfa car aswell. To answer ur first question u cant go stage 2 without a downpipe.. Second i have a pretty good setup with my spacers and even though i have no check engine light it still throws a 0420 code. Hopefully when it comes to the time i can pass my inspection here in mass..


I have spoke to a few people at AWE and all say no problem stage 2 with stock DP, its just not going to have the power it would with 3" dp obviously. They dont recommend hammering it as it does produce more boost and could produce too much heat for such a restricted DP/Cat(stock) Also i can always simply put it into stock mode if for some reason a got a CEL before i get my DP. I just want to take advantage of the sale when it arrives and not have to send ECU back and pay an upgrade fee later for stage 2.

as for your code P0420, I assumed that this code automatically throws the CEL. Odd that yours does not. Most likely in OBD2 states it will not pass even without a CEL.

what exactly is your spacer setup? Im leaning toward buying TWO RAI J spacers since they come with the 'JETS', and fine tuning with the Jets from there.


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## Johnotis10 (Apr 2, 2012)

I have a non fouler in the mid censor and a 42dd spacer in the rear... I heard even with the spacers u still throw a code but not always a cel which is kind of weird.. It might randomly come on and off..


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

Johnotis10 said:


> I have a non fouler in the mid censor and a 42dd spacer in the rear... I heard even with the spacers u still throw a code but not always a cel which is kind of weird.. It might randomly come on and off..


the problem with the CBFA is its very finicky! If i were you I would buy a RAI J spacer, install it after the cat, then take your 42dd and install it before the cat... I bet that would be perfect.

the reason I will go with RAI spacer is the fact they come with JETS, to fine tune. Other spacers and non foulers have to be drilled out, but then your stuck with that size. 

RAI also has a straight spacer with 2 Jets, but the more i talk to people the more i hear they are using the J style. Seems RAI has a very hard time keeping them instock!

According to this thread and others, guys who DO not have a CEL DO not have a code either. Im thinking maybe you got a code and WILL eventually get the CEL sooner or later, or at least Intermittently.

right now im just waiting for the GIAC Sale!! After I saw some of the great stage 2 dyno pulls from GIAC it made me a believer. The more dynos i see from all the tuners, it seems APR is usually low, but as they say smooth and safe.


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## Johnotis10 (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks for the info... Maybe I'll try that setup.. Actually i just installed a p3 cars boost gauge that tells me what codes I have and then clears it for me.. As long as i can pass inspection then im good for now... The car runs great perfect even with the code.. I have till september anyway.. 

Just some info for u aswell.. Giac stage 2 is awesome.. I heard mixed reviews about apr.. I heard its a bit conservative. As for my car, its pretty damn fast. The gauge i bought allows me to keep track of my 0-60 times and so far my best is 5.2 sec with stock dunlops.. Im sure if i get some stickie tires i will be sub 5 easily..


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

Johnotis10 said:


> Thanks for the info... Maybe I'll try that setup.. Actually i just installed a p3 cars boost gauge that tells me what codes I have and then clears it for me.. As long as i can pass inspection then im good for now... The car runs great perfect even with the code.. I have till september anyway..
> 
> Just some info for u aswell.. Giac stage 2 is awesome.. I heard mixed reviews about apr.. I heard its a bit conservative. As for my car, its pretty damn fast. The gauge i bought allows me to keep track of my 0-60 times and so far my best is 5.2 sec with stock dunlops.. Im sure if i get some stickie tires i will be sub 5 easily..


Man that is awesome, cant wait to get mine stage 2 GIAC soon! I have considered APR, REVO and UNI but i think i will be happiest with GIAC after much research. really great to hear yours works well. That is an awesome 0-60 time!

I lowered mine last month and got Conti DW tires so i should have some decent grip! Only thing I worry about is how long will my clutch last after stage 2! LOL

Ill be sure to post up here when i get my DP and spacers setup, but that wont be for a few more months.

eace:


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## Johnotis10 (Apr 2, 2012)

As tuners i know that sometimes we have tendencies to spend money too fast with our cars.. Lol! Im sure soon enough you will be there.. 

As far as your clutch.... I have a dsg so i dont have experience first hand with that but from what i hear u should be good for a while.. It all depends on ur driving style.. 

Good stuff though! Just be sure to have a professional install ur software.. Things could go bad quick if not done properly.


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

Johnotis10 said:


> As tuners i know that sometimes we have tendencies to spend money too fast with our cars.. Lol! Im sure soon enough you will be there..
> 
> As far as your clutch.... I have a dsg so i dont have experience first hand with that but from what i hear u should be good for a while.. It all depends on ur driving style..
> 
> Good stuff though! Just be sure to have a professional install ur software.. Things could go bad quick if not done properly.


Yeah i hear that....if you look at my build thread i spent way too much the first 2 weeks i owned car! LOL... But now its time for more power.

I spent alot of time looking around, and Emailing. Its funny not one TUNER replied to my emails, not APR, not REVO, and Unitronic finally did after a few weeks. My local GIAC dealer wanted $150 labor install geesh! 

I emailed AWE and they replied to me within an hour! I decided it would be best to ship my ECU to AWE. They do not charge any labor to flash, no tax either. So ill remove ECU myself and ship to AWE which is alot less then $150 plus tax paying locally to a guy who has not done any MK6s yet. AWE has done lots and they are very reputable! I got my springs from AWE last month and had really great communication with them, and always read about how many guys online have had AWE do their cars, wish i lived closer to them.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

If you are going with the RAI J-spacers, I would use middle jet on the front sensor, and smallest jet on the rear sensor. You may also need a nonfouler on the front sensor, in essence it is farther away but the "flow hole" is larger so it can't be the same distance away as the rear sensor. It's very touchy 



Or just go with the tried and true results in this thread: kaban has BFI spacer on front, RAI J spacer on rear with smallest insert on a Eurojet 200 cell metal cat downpipe.

plac has the UR with rear bung already modded by UR, and 42DD spacer on front threaded halfway out and facing rear of car.


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

Ricky Bobby said:


> If you are going with the RAI J-spacers, I would use middle jet on the front sensor, and smallest jet on the rear sensor. You may also need a nonfouler on the front sensor, in essence it is farther away but the "flow hole" is larger so it can't be the same distance away as the rear sensor. It's very touchy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great info buddy!! I think I will try the J spacers first from RAI. It will be interesting to see how finiky things are. I have talked to many who have slightly different setup and are all working, so even though things in general should be similar, i think there is some leeway in how finiky this CBFA is!

Ill be sure to post up my setup when time comes! gonna be a few mts til i get all done!

Dan


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## BODH1 (Nov 24, 2011)

Johnotis10 said:


> I have a non fouler in the mid censor and a 42dd spacer in the rear... I heard even with the spacers u still throw a code but not always a cel which is kind of weird.. It might randomly come on and off..





rockerdan said:


> the problem with the CBFA is its very finicky! If i were you I would buy a RAI J spacer, install it after the cat, then take your 42dd and install it before the cat... I bet that would be perfect.
> 
> the reason I will go with RAI spacer is the fact they come with JETS, to fine tune. Other spacers and non foulers have to be drilled out, but then your stuck with that size.
> 
> ...





Johnotis10 said:


> Thanks for the info... Maybe I'll try that setup.. Actually i just installed a p3 cars boost gauge that tells me what codes I have and then clears it for me.. As long as i can pass inspection then im good for now... The car runs great perfect even with the code.. I have till september anyway..
> 
> Just some info for u aswell.. Giac stage 2 is awesome.. I heard mixed reviews about apr.. I heard its a bit conservative. As for my car, its pretty damn fast. The gauge i bought allows me to keep track of my 0-60 times and so far my best is 5.2 sec with stock dunlops.. Im sure if i get some stickie tires i will be sub 5 easily..





rockerdan said:


> Man that is awesome, cant wait to get mine stage 2 GIAC soon! I have considered APR, REVO and UNI but i think i will be happiest with GIAC after much research. really great to hear yours works well. That is an awesome 0-60 time!
> 
> I lowered mine last month and got Conti DW tires so i should have some decent grip! Only thing I worry about is how long will my clutch last after stage 2! LOL
> 
> ...





rockerdan said:


> Great info buddy!! I think I will try the J spacers first from RAI. It will be interesting to see how finiky things are. I have talked to many who have slightly different setup and are all working, so even though things in general should be similar, i think there is some leeway in how finiky this CBFA is!
> 
> Ill be sure to post up my setup when time comes! gonna be a few mts til i get all done!
> 
> Dan


Just remember guys, I have the CBFA, 3" Eurojet/Unitronic catted 200cel downpipe. I have only ONE 42DD spacer, pre-cat, which is threaded half way in. I'm at 700 miles and NO CEL YET! GIAC STAGE 2, BSH True Seal Intake


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

BODH1 said:


> Just remember guys, I have the CBFA, 3" Eurojet/Unitronic catted 200cel downpipe. I have only ONE 42DD spacer, pre-cat, which is threaded half way in. I'm at 700 miles and NO CEL YET!


Very interesting.....what stage 2 tune do you have, and do you have a intake?

This just proves that each car is different, and im beginning to think there are many ways to skin a cat! 

It just seems odd to not need a spacer POST CAT, which is where you would think it would need it most to read cleaner at the back. 

Great to get as much info in here as we can for sure! 

thanks
:thumbup:


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## BODH1 (Nov 24, 2011)

rockerdan said:


> Very interesting.....what stage 2 tune do you have, and do you have a intake?
> 
> This just proves that each car is different, and im beginning to think there are many ways to skin a cat!
> 
> ...


Post updated: Giac Stage 2 with a BSH true seal intake.


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

BODH1 said:


> Post updated: Giac Stage 2 with a BSH true seal intake.


awesome!


just wondering how you like this setup? Im leaning GIAC and EJ DP for myself and intake. 

Did you go stage 1 first then stage 2? If so, did GIAC charge for the upgrade? How much?


Im thinking i might go stage 1 first since i have so many other things to spend money on right now,LOL....then going DP and stage 2 later in the fall maybe. Just would hate to have to pay alot for the upgrade. I know APR does not but there is usually a labor charge, but it should only be obd2 flash so pretty easy.


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## HeadwrapKiller (Jan 24, 2012)

*Confused.*

I am currently running the APR Stage2 Testpipe file with their full exhaust (200 cell catted DP). Next Friday (15 June) I am heading over to BFI to get re-flashed and install a post-CAT o2 spacer, but I am concerned about this: 



84cabbydroptop said:


> i could use some help too, im getting pissed with the damn apr downpipe. i installed the 42dd spacer and still popping codes. it requires another spacer elsewhere to trick it?





NoRegrets78 said:


> Need two spacers. One pre cat one post cat.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why is it necessary to have a spacer pre-CAT? Also, I spoke to APR, and they told me to flash back to stage 1 to pass emissions. Is it possible to just reflash to APR stage2 NON-Testpipe, install spacers, and not throw the code? CCTA engine btw. (NC still requires emissions testing yearly:thumbdown

*EDIT: *Just got off the phone with APR again, representative I spoke with earlier today misspoke about flashing back to stage1. *APR said flash to Stage 2 NON-TestPipe, and work with spacer(s) until no longer throwing codes*.


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## BODH1 (Nov 24, 2011)

rockerdan said:


> awesome!
> 
> 
> just wondering how you like this setup? Im leaning GIAC and EJ DP for myself and intake.
> ...


I like this set up a lot, and this downpipe is great.

I got the downpipe with stock software for about a month, the gains were noticeable with the downpipe alone. Then I went GIAC stage 2 from stock. GIAC dealers are allowed to charge for labor for tuning from stage 1 to stage 2, some do it, some don't. 

The intake is ok, I have a stage 1+stage 2 BSH intake, which includes the turbo inlet pipe, heatshield, and the actual intake. The fitment on my particular intake was a little iffy, I had to do some modding to make it fit perfect, and now it's great. However, I am considering selling the set up (at a very good price, too, if you are interested,) and getting probably the modshack intake.


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

HeadwrapKiller said:


> I am currently running the APR Stage2 Testpipe file with their full exhaust (200 cell catted DP). Next Friday (15 June) I am heading over to BFI to get re-flashed and install a post-CAT o2 spacer, but I am concerned about this:
> 
> Why is it necessary to have a spacer pre-CAT? Also, I spoke to APR, and they told me to flash back to stage 1 to pass emissions. Is it possible to just reflash to APR stage2 NON-Testpipe, install spacers, and not throw the code? CCTA engine btw. (NC still requires emissions testing yearly:thumbdown
> 
> *EDIT: *Just got off the phone with APR again, representative I spoke with earlier today misspoke about flashing back to stage1. *APR said flash to Stage 2 NON-TestPipe, and work with spacer(s) until no longer throwing codes*.


Take a quick look at my post here, it has alot of info:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...nd-aid-fix&p=77719864&viewfull=1#post77719864

When you add a larger Diameter DownPipe you have changed how the car breathes. Your PRE-CAT Sensor will read higher with a larger DP. Also, on the CBFA motors they have two sensors as they run cleaner, they are detecting the PRE CAT o2 VS Post CAT o2 constantly, and it needs to satisfy certain criteria to not throw a CEL.

This is why i don't like the test pipe file, many people have it not really knowing that their car is truly throwing a CEL and not going to pass an emissions inspection. 

As stated above, I would buy two RAI J spacers, they will allow you the best amount of fine tuning with their Jets. Some have been able to run CEL free with ONE SPACER on a CBFA but IMO its best to buy two and have them ready, since they are not really very pricey. 

Just because one spacer does not throw a CEL right away, does not mean a year later you dont start throwing CELs again, these motors are finiky and even stock setups can throw a CEL at times. So having two adjustable J spacers makes good sense.

:thumbup:


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## HeadwrapKiller (Jan 24, 2012)

rockerdan said:


> Take a quick look at my post here, it has alot of info:
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...nd-aid-fix&p=77719864&viewfull=1#post77719864
> 
> When you add a larger Diameter DownPipe you have changed how the car breathes. Your PRE-CAT Sensor will read higher with a larger DP. Also, on the CBFA motors they have two sensors as they run cleaner, they are detecting the PRE CAT o2 VS Post CAT o2 constantly, and it needs to satisfy certain criteria to not throw a CEL.
> ...


I've been digging on this topic for a couple days already, and I have been keeping up with the thread you linked to as well. The guys at BFI think I should be OK with just a post-CAT spacer, but I will discuss it more with them. 

I guess I'm wondering now if it will be easier since I am CCTA not CBFA. Thanks for the info.


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

HeadwrapKiller said:


> I've been digging on this topic for a couple days already, and I have been keeping up with the thread you linked to as well. The guys at BFI think I should be OK with just a post-CAT spacer, but I will discuss it more with them.
> 
> I guess I'm wondering now if it will be easier since I am CCTA not CBFA. Thanks for the info.


OHHHH....My bad I did not see you were CCTA, since this thread is for CBFA i just assumed you were...lol

You only need ONE o2 spacer, since you only have ONE sensor! (CCTA has only one)


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## HeadwrapKiller (Jan 24, 2012)

rockerdan said:


> OHHHH....My bad I did not see you were CCTA, since this thread is for CBFA i just assumed you were...lol
> 
> You only need ONE o2 spacer, since you only have ONE sensor! (CCTA has only one)


DOH!!! Yeah, I guess I have been getting all worked up over nothing.


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

HeadwrapKiller said:


> DOH!!! Yeah, I guess I have been getting all worked up over nothing.


:laugh::thumbup:


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## HeadwrapKiller (Jan 24, 2012)

rockerdan said:


> :laugh::thumbup:


Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

HeadwrapKiller said:


> Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?


yes CCTA do have a o2 sensor right at the top of stock DP, this you can leave without a spacer(2 total)


the CBFA motor has the top o2 sensor on the other side right at turbo, it is not on the DP on CBFA. Then one before and one after cat(3 total). This is why CBFA is so touchy to get CEL free, its constantly taking all these readings!

I have never heard anyone having to use a spacer on the top sensor at turbo, Im not sure if this sensor takes the same type of readings as the rearward ones.

:thumbup:


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## HeadwrapKiller (Jan 24, 2012)

rockerdan said:


> :thumbup:


Sweet. Thanks man. Really clears all this up for me.


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## fms93gt (May 8, 2010)

HeadwrapKiller said:


> Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?


Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles. :thumbup:
Thanks to everyone involved with this thread! :thumbup:


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

if anyone needs a 3'' SS mandrel bent pipe with real V-band clamps and comes with either a test pipe section or high flow cat, message me.


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## HeadwrapKiller (Jan 24, 2012)

fms93gt said:


> Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles. :thumbup:
> Thanks to everyone involved with this thread! :thumbup:


Are you talking about a CBFA or CCTA engine?


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

fms93gt said:


> Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles. :thumbup:
> Thanks to everyone involved with this thread! :thumbup:


I assume you are CBFA due to installing non fouler before cat. This just goes to show two spacers work best for CBFA, but it also shows that these setups can differ from one another, more spacing, less spacing, different types, all seem to be able to be made to work.

again i feel the RAI gives us the most flexibilty simply due to their JETS, which i think is the ticket if starting from scratch.

Guy who have made their cars CBFA cel free, please keep track of your mileage and report back every so often so we know they are staying CEL free over long periods.

great thread here!!!

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

Krieger said:


> if anyone needs a 3'' SS mandrel bent pipe with real V-band clamps and comes with either a test pipe section or high flow cat, message me.


you talking about the actual DP or just piping, hard to tell from this post.

if you have a DP would love to see pics and costs...


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

its a full DP. opcorn: lol

message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.


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## fms93gt (May 8, 2010)

HeadwrapKiller said:


> Are you talking about a CBFA or CCTA engine?


CBFA


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

Krieger said:


> its a full DP. opcorn: lol
> 
> message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.


I have one installed on my car and loving it, plus you cant beat the price


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

Krieger said:


> its a full DP. opcorn: lol
> 
> message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.


Thanks for the PM and all the info, great deal! 

My problem is i wont be ready to go stage 2 for awhile still.....so Ill probably miss out. I will surely PM you when im ready to see if you have any at that time.

:thumbup:


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## mcgillis (Dec 6, 2007)

42dd catless downpipe with 2 90* elbow, o2 spacers from ebay - first spacer drilled out a tad. Over two hundred miles so far without a cel, knock on wood. Factory tune, stock intake. The ebay spacers I got were $18 a piece.


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

mcgillis said:


> 42dd catless downpipe with 2 90* elbow, o2 spacers from ebay - first spacer drilled out a tad. Over two hundred miles so far without a cel, knock on wood. Factory tune, stock intake. The ebay spacers I got were $18 a piece.


 wow, interesting without a cat at all! nice work. 

The great thing about this(if you dont mind the smell) is you could go with a much cheaper DP(like ebay/godspeed ect) if its easy enough to be CEL free without CAT. Alot less cash! 

Please give link to ebay spacers, would love to see some pics of them, great price too.


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## mcgillis (Dec 6, 2007)

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=290725542501 

The "inlet" hole is around the same size as the bfi (had a bfi spacer on my 1.8t and vr6).


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## rockerdan (May 21, 2011)

mcgillis said:


> http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=290725542501
> 
> The "inlet" hole is around the same size as the bfi (had a bfi spacer on my 1.8t and vr6).


 Does that say steel? (not stainless) I wonder how fast that will rust out if its not SS ? 

:sly:


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## mcgillis (Dec 6, 2007)

rockerdan said:


> Does that say steel? (not stainless) I wonder how fast that will rust out if its not SS ?
> 
> :sly:


 I'll be going apr stage 2 before they get a chance to rust. I just wanted it to keep me cel-less for the time being. For those who are looking for a more permanent solution, without catless software, the 42dd spacers look top quality (nearly $40 a piece though).


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## SDbirdman (Jan 20, 2011)

Installed two of these today. Time will tell. Wish me luck!

Fingers crossed...

P.s. this is a GREAT thread. Props to all u guys


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I hate to burst your bubble, but if you have the CBFA motor and try to use a simple 90 degree spacer by itself you will most likely throw a CEL. You will probably have to add a straight spacer as I did or maybe try the RAI 90 degree spacer with adjustable inserts.
Im not sure if the CCTA can get away with a simple 90 degree spacer though.


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I hate to burst your bubble, but if you have the CBFA motor and try to use a simple 90 degree spacer by itself you will most likely throw a CEL. You will probably have to add a straight spacer as I did or maybe try the RAI 90 degree spacer with adjustable inserts.
> Im not sure if the CCTA can get away with a simple 90 degree spacer though.


That's exactly what I had to do. Hopefully the BFI spacers work out though as the spacers are the same. The BFI/RAI combo I have works for sure. 3+k miles with no P420.


----------



## SDbirdman (Jan 20, 2011)

thanks for the input guys. i did a 15 mile drive after installing the meagan racing right angle spacers and threw a p2271 code. its at bank 1 sensor 2. so i guess i have some work to do. 

damn cbfa...oh well, compared to the bpy fsi that i lemoned this cbfa has been a godsend


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## HeadwrapKiller (Jan 24, 2012)

****update****

Just a quick update:

I have a CCTA not CBFA, and have to pass emissions in NC. I was able to pass by installing the BFI spacer and flashing to stock. After passing inspection, I re-flashed to APR Stage2 Non-Testpipe file and have put over 1k miles on the car with no codes. I have rechecked the car and it will still pass inspection.

The reason I am stating this is because there is some confusion for CCTA emissions inspections. APR and the guys at BFI both told me I would need to flash back to stock to pass, then re-flash to stage2. Truth is (for me) APR Stage2 non-testpipe w/BFI spacer works just fine.

Hope this helps anyone with CCTA in an emissions state.

P.S. I have the APR Turbo-back exhaust, in other words 200 cell high flow cat.


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

HeadwrapKiller said:


> Truth is (for me) APR Stage2 non-testpipe w/BFI spacer works just fine.
> 
> Hope this helps anyone with CCTA in an emissions state.


This is correct, if you have the non-testpipe file you can pass emissions as long as you have a o2 spacer. APR non-testpipe file allows for readiness codes to be set. I believe CCTA's only require one spacer on the 2nd o2 bung and CBFA's require one on the 2nd and 3rd.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

I'll be dealing with this in the next month.. better order some spacers :facepalm:


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## wh1te09gti (Oct 12, 2009)

is cel/faulty code will do any harm to the engine performance if not taken care of right away? 
im in jersey with inspection sticker until 2017 :laugh:


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## vath (May 9, 2004)

OK, time for me to get into this thread.... 

I just installed my used APR Downpipe this past weekend and kinda guessed at the o2 senor arrangement... For some reason I decided to take the plug that you see here in position 1 on the APR downpipe and put it where the stock CBFA 1st o2 sensor is and move the 1st o2 sensor onto the APR pipe.... after 50 miles i threw a p0420 CEL... on bank 1, is back 1 the first sensor? bank2 the 2nd and so on? 










current set up: 









did i guess incorrectly? or is this the normal CEL that come up after a DP install?  

*001056 - Catalyst System; Bank 1 
P0420 - 000 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON*


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## vath (May 9, 2004)

*rockerdan answered my question above....*



rockerdan said:


> yes CCTA do have a o2 sensor right at the top of stock DP, this you can leave without a spacer(2 total)
> 
> the CBFA motor has the top o2 sensor on the other side right at turbo, it is not on the DP on CBFA. Then one before and one after cat(3 total). This is why CBFA is so touchy to get CEL free, its constantly taking all these readings!


 OOOOOOH :screwy: 

now that i know the CCTA only requires 2 total o2 sensors.... now i know i should left the plug where it was.... :banghead:


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

vath said:


> OOOOOOH :screwy:
> 
> now that i know the CCTA only requires 2 total o2 sensors.... now i know i should left the plug where it was.... :banghead:


 Well at least you figured it out. The 1st o2 sensor goes into the turbo itself and you plug the 1st bung on the downpipe.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I moved from STL to KC and KC doesn't have emissions. 
Im getting flashed to APR stage 2 testpipe file this weekend


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## cubantexan (Jun 8, 2010)

*CCTA Engine*

Hey guys,

Just got flashed with the non-testpipe file and I have my O2 spacers installed on the testpipe. I have no CEL which is good but when I ran vag-com for OBDII I saw the messages below and thought it was odd.

Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness -- Address 7E8

Number of DTCs stored: 0 -- MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring: Passed
Fuel System: Passed
Comprehensive Components: Passed
Catalyst monitoring: Failed or Incomplete
Heated catalyst monitoring: Not installed.
Evaporative system monitoring: Failed or Incomplete
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring: Failed or Incomplete
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring: Failed or Incomplete
Exhaust Gas Recirculation: Failed or Incomplete


Will I still pass inspection? What do those failed or incomplete mean?


Thanks all!


----------



## kyledubbs (Feb 23, 2009)

cubantexan said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Just got flashed with the non-testpipe file and I have my O2 spacers installed on the testpipe. I have no CEL which is good but when I ran vag-com for OBDII I saw the messages below and thought it was odd.
> 
> ...


Having no light on and the computer giving you those readings, i would say that the file you had flashed permantly has those monitors shut off. and depending on your emission laws you may fail even though your light is not on. Here in MA all those monitors need to be ready and passed. 

I have no o2 sensors in my car and my flash has all those monitors shut off so the light does not come on and i just tried to get my sticker and i did not pass because of it. so i need to put the o2's back in with spacers and get a reflash to turn the monitors on.


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

Subscribed


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

I just passed emissions 45 mins ago with my car..

I have a 42dd 3" downpipe and cat (magnaflow 200cell?). I had a testpipe in there for a while, as well as the v1.2 stage2 testpipes file, so I knew I would have to get reflashed to get rid of the two not ready errors. In the meantime I ordered two of the RAI J spacers (made by vibrant), and I installed them the other day. I put one on the 2nd and 3rd o2 bungs. The 2nd one I put the medium spacer, and the 3rd one I put the small spacer. 

Yesterday evening I got reflashed to the v1.2 regular stage2 flash, and was able to set the readiness by driving home, then to work in the morning, and then to lunch today. I checked my readiness with Vagcom at lunch, and everything said passed, so I figured I was good. I made an appointment for 4pm today, and it passed with no fails or not readys.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## eduardot (Dec 8, 2011)

Slayer said:


> I just passed emissions 45 mins ago with my car..
> 
> I have a 42dd 3" downpipe and cat (magnaflow 200cell?). I had a testpipe in there for a while, as well as the v1.2 stage2 testpipes file, so I knew I would have to get reflashed to get rid of the two not ready errors. In the meantime I ordered two of the RAI J spacers (made by vibrant), and I installed them the other day. I put one on the 2nd and 3rd o2 bungs. The 2nd one I put the medium spacer, and the 3rd one I put the small spacer.
> 
> ...


Nice, this is the configuration I was planning on trying out. Thanks for reporting your results :thumbup:

Can you take pictures of how you placed the spacers. Or just tell us which direction the J is facing.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

eduardot said:


> Nice, this is the configuration I was planning on trying out. Thanks for reporting your results :thumbup:
> 
> Can you take pictures of how you placed the spacers. Or just tell us which direction the J is facing.


both pointing straight back. There wasn't any way to point the front one forward or down really, just no room, and the rear one I wouldn't have had enough length on the wire.


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## eduardot (Dec 8, 2011)

Slayer said:


> both pointing straight back. There wasn't any way to point the front one forward or down really, just no room, and the rear one I wouldn't have had enough length on the wire.


:thumbup:

If you ever get a chance a picture would be nice. I'm not familiar with the o2 sensor positions on the 42dd downpipe.

Edit: I was forgetting. Your garage build is insanely awesome :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

eduardot said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> If you ever get a chance a picture would be nice. I'm not familiar with the o2 sensor positions on the 42dd downpipe.
> 
> Edit: I was forgetting. Your garage build is insanely awesome :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


lol thanks.. actually I need to update that badly.

anyways, here's the pics:


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## vath (May 9, 2004)

*CEL fixed*

just an FYI...

I am 2009 CBFA motor with APR1, BSH intake, and APR downpipe (stock exhaust) . I had a CEL with only a 42DD O2 spacer on the last downpipe port... 

Then I installed a BFI O2 spacer on the 2nd port and all is good now, I cleared my CEL and drove about 75 miles so far without a CEL and today I checked VAGCOM and all the Readiness is PASSED 

thanks for the help guys!

edit: The BFI exits to the rear and the 42DD exits to the front if anyone cares....


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

Bringing this thread back to life. I just installed my SPM DP and paired it with two 034 o2 spacers. these are the L shaped spacers. The last one I used a double spacer config using a normal spacer after the 034. 

This threw multiple codes after 60 miles. I don't think the sensors are getting enough exhaust flow with this setup. I'm going to try just using a standard anti fouler (pre drilled from factory) (2nd sensor) w/ an 034 on the 3rd sensor. 

Hopefully this works. Although I am skeptical because the precat sensor w/ 034 spacer threw a code. Spacer is facing the rear of the car, and I got a code stating it isn't getting a good reading.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Were you throwing too rich or too lean codes for your o2 sensors?


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Its reading rich, you should use a smaller venturii to restrict the flow even more.


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

hm... okay. Looks like I'll have to buy more spacers :banghead:

What about the slow response code?


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

Pick up a couple of the rai spacers instead, they will probably work


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

you know what doesn't make sense though? When I initially installed my DP, I only ran w/ one normal spacer in the 3rd sensor spot. It drove for 170 miles before I threw a code. Now I moved the sensors further from exhaust gases, and I get the CEL quick?! It's coming on after 10 miles or so now w/ the setup I have currently.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

it's touchy, but I think the rai spacers are the way to go. I put mine on, got reflashed to stage2 non testpipes, and I've been through 4 full tanks of fuel since then (~1600 miles), and it hasn't come back


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

I've not had the p420 CEL code come back after 10k miles of driving. The RAI spacers is the way to go.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

lilfleck said:


> you know what doesn't make sense though? When I initially installed my DP, I only ran w/ one normal spacer in the 3rd sensor spot. It drove for 170 miles before I threw a code. Now I moved the sensors further from exhaust gases, and I get the CEL quick?! It's coming on after 10 miles or so now w/ the setup I have currently.


What code are you throwing? rich or lean?

You cant be too restrictive otherwise it will read lean and still throw a CEL


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

Hm.. the first code i threw was P0420, efficiency below threshold. Possible leak? I only had one normal spacer post cat.


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## PeeLo801 (Apr 5, 2012)

lilfleck said:


> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


What app did you use for this? What do I need to do to get this on my android phone?


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32231
:thumbup:


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## PeeLo801 (Apr 5, 2012)

lilfleck said:


> http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32231
> :thumbup:


Much thanks!


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

PeeLo801 said:


> Much thanks!


the Torque app is great and works very well on Android.


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## PeeLo801 (Apr 5, 2012)

kaban said:


> the Torque app is great and works very well on Android.


don't mean to derail this thread much, but those codes that popped up, are those manufacturer's codes? So this app can scan for VW's codes too?


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## lilfleck (Nov 28, 2008)

PeeLo801 said:


> don't mean to derail this thread much, but those codes that popped up, are those manufacturer's codes? So this app can scan for VW's codes too?


Pretty sure, yes. You can also run logs/graphs, see live readings from your car. Clear codes. Completely worth the $30 I spent for everything. I would do it again in a heart beat. 

I would LOVE to have run some logs and compare them to others who have beat the CEL on CBFA. I just don't know which readings would be important to log this issue. I'm thinking either o2 temps and/or o2 voltage. o2 voltage seems like the better choice bc i can actually select sensors #2 & 3. When I try to read o2 temps, I can only read 1 & 2.


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

Don't wanna beat dead horse here but, I just installed a eurojet tbe w/cat (no flash yet). Got the standard codes today p0420, also a too rich code bank 3. I have the standard L shaped spacer (pointing towards the front of the car) on the post cat o2 sensor. Should I also throw one on the pre cat or should I go with rai j spacers on both pre and post cat o2 sensors so I can also restrict the flow to the sensors?


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

two of the RAI / Vibrant j pipes are the way to go.. you get a lot of different options to make it work for each car


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

yeah I read a bunch of different combos, thinking the rai w/medium jet in the front and smallest jet in the back


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## eduardot (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm currently running an SPM downpipe using one J spacer post-cat with the medium-sized jet. I've only traveled 300 miles, but no CEL yet.










There are two more users on golfmk6.com with the same setup. Yes, we are CBFA, I guess it's just luck that it's working with only one spacer.


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

and your pointing it towards the front, spoke with someone at eurojet they said point it towards the back


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## eduardot (Dec 8, 2011)

jokerny77 said:


> and your pointing it towards the front, spoke with someone at eurojet they said point it towards the back


Does your eurojet cat section look like mine? If so, maybe you could get the same results. I'm just asking because when SPM just came out there were a lot of talks about how similar they are.

Also, I have an extra J spacer that I could sell you since I ended up only using one.


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

very similar let me know


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Heres mine: Eurojet v1 catless, ceramic coated, wrapped in DEI header wrap, both spacers pointing towards front of car:
2nd o2 sensor:









3rd o2:


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

those spark plug anti-foulers on there?


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

cleared the codes yesterday and turned the spacer towards the rear of the car, only got one code today P0420: catalyst system efficiency below threshold (bank 1)


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

bank 1 is the pre-cat o2 sensor ? maybe I'll throw a spacer on that one too


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

jokerny77 said:


> those spark plug anti-foulers on there?


correct
On the 3rd o2 sensor one of the spark plug non foulers has been drilled out to 1/2"

Ive been CEL free for over 6 months now


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

gotta try that, 2nd o2 sensor is the fouler drilled out?


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## fms93gt (May 8, 2010)

jokerny77 said:


> gotta try that, 2nd o2 sensor is the fouler drilled out?


I have EJ TBE v2 with 200 cell cat. I drilled out the spark fouler and put it in front of the cat and 42DD after the cat. No CEL for over 8K total miles - 4K on my 2010 and 4K on new 2013. :thumbup:


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## jokerny77 (Jul 1, 2008)

so far so good just used my L shaped spacers pointing back no light yet


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## imtheman (Apr 15, 2012)

*CEL*

What about putting some titanium exhaust wrap inside spacer to act as a filter? Or would the wrap get burned?


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## imtheman (Apr 15, 2012)

*CEL*

What about putting some titanium exhaust wrap inside spacer to act as a filter? Or would the wrap get burned?


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

Hm, zero issues for almost 5 months and then I got a CEL out of the blue last night. It was raining, and there were some twigs on the ground, so maybe I hooked one of the wires? I wiped the codes last night, and the cel came back on today, just haven't checked to see if it's all 3 errors again

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06J-907-115-CBF.clb
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 115 AD HW: 1K0 907 115 AD
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0060
Software Coding: 0403010818070160
Work Shop Code: WSC 01387 785 00200
VCID: 68D404AD5B6E7B5889C
3 Faults Found:

000327 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S3; Heating Circuit 
P0147 - 000 - Malfunction - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 94226 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 09:25:21

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2608 /min
Load: 39.2 %
Speed: 106.0 km/h
Temperature: 95.0∞C
Temperature: 3.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.716 V

000326 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S3 
P0146 - 000 - No Activity - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 94226 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 09:25:21

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2608 /min
Load: 39.2 %
Speed: 106.0 km/h
Temperature: 95.0∞C
Temperature: 3.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.716 V

000066 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S3: Heating Circuit 
P0042 - 000 - Malfunction /Open Circuit - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 95087 km
Time Indication: 0
 Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 06:35:43

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2425 /min
Load: 16.5 %
Speed: 83.0 km/h
Temperature: 95.0∞C
Temperature: 6.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.843 V


Readiness: 0000 0000


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## vath (May 9, 2004)

Slayer said:


> Hm, zero issues for almost 5 months and then I got a CEL out of the blue last night. It was raining, and there were some twigs on the ground, so maybe I hooked one of the wires? I wiped the codes last night, and the cel came back on today, just haven't checked to see if it's all 3 errors again
> 
> Readiness: 0000 0000



Did you end up fixing this? I just went to Stage2 the other day while they installed my new FX250 clutch and after 120 miles my CEL came on. I'm bet i need to fiddle with my O2 spacer set up. Currently my set up is:
BFI spacer exits to the rear and the 42DD spacer exits to the front....

That worked for Stage 1... i'll check my fault code/readiness later tonight.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

vath said:


> Did you end up fixing this? I just went to Stage2 the other day while they installed my new FX250 clutch and after 120 miles my CEL came on. I'm bet i need to fiddle with my O2 spacer set up. Currently my set up is:
> BFI spacer exits to the rear and the 42DD spacer exits to the front....
> 
> That worked for Stage 1... i'll check my fault code/readiness later tonight.


It's a dead o2 sensor I'm guessing. I haven't fixed it yet.. have about 1.5 years until emissions is due again :laugh:

I know it worked though.. I put a lot of hard miles on it and never tripped a code until it just **** the bed


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## vath (May 9, 2004)

this is my code:

008342 - Post-Catalyst Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Correction; Bank 1 
P2096 - 000 - Too Lean - Intermittent - MIL ON

maybe I can swap the spacers..... i really don't wanna order 2 more :facepalm:

for now, I just reset the fault codes and I'll see if it comes back


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

P2096 I'm told is an exhaust leak code, I still have mine. 

This should help you:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5661303-APR-3-quot-DP-w-200-cell..-p2096


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## soze (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm about to tackle this.

CBFA
SPM Street downpipe
1 Vibrant/RAI J Spacer.

I'm going to put the J Spacer on the 3rd bung facing front using the middle jet. I've heard that worked for someone.

I may have to get a second J spacer in case though.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

I have a 2012 Turbo Beetle (6 speed) that was set-up with an APR Stage II Tune, the APR 3" catted
downpipe, and a Borla catback exhaust. The APR tuner was unable to cure my CEL problem, saying
that he could insure my passing inspection (in N.Y.) each year for $100 over the regular state inspection
fee. I would not be able to pass inspection at a standard N.Y. Inspection Facility since, even though he
could make the CEL disappear, the underlying problem would remain.

My concern was that I would not ever be able to sell the car to someone who didn't have, or didn't want 
to be forced to visit an APR Tuner for inspection. It should be noted that my car was a CBFA engine car
that the tuner tried fitting with the full array of different size 02 inserts, having no success.

Enter HPA. I found out that Linden VW in N.J. had become a dealership that now had a motorsport division
who was involved with HPA. I was able to speak directly to both 'Linden' and 'HPA' about upgrading to an
HPA K04.......but only if they could guaranty that I would be able to pass inspections in N.Y. at any standard
state run facility. They assured me that not only would I have no problem with passing inspection in N.Y., but
that my APR downpipe would not require any 02 sensor inserts to be installed in order for me to pass inspection.
The only recommendation they added was for me to remove my Carbonio intake. They stated that whereas
they don't sell cold air aftermarket intakes, all of those tested by them had proved to be problematic with regard
to their specialized ECU tune due to too much turbulence being generated. They suggested that, until which time
an aftermarket intake manufacturer better handled air flow, I should revert back to my OEM unit but using a K&N
drop in filter in place of the OEM one.

After 5,000 miles of driving with the above set-up in my now K04 level car, I had absolutely no more problems
with a CEL and have passed N.Y. Inspection with no problems. I need to add that HPA is adamant in stating that
their tune is not of a generic variety but custom adjusted for many factors involving my car that the APR Tuner
wanted them to divulge......but of course they wouldn't.

Some have tried to 'pooh pooh' what HPA states but all I know is that they were true to their word. My car has
absolutely no more CEL problems that were present with my APR Stage II. I should add that after speaking to
John at Unitronic, mentioning the cold air intake turbulence problem, he informed me that they had taken the 
'turbulence' problem into account and found that their new cold air intake would not cause a CEL in my car.
I agreed to give it a chance and must admit John was accurate. I've had his intake in my car for many months
now with no CEL. Since my car is a CBFA car, Unitronic supplied me with an additional (free) mini breather
filter when I first received their unit.

My car is also fitted with the GFB D+ Diverter Valve Upgrade, the Unitronic Diverter Valve Relocation Kit, and
the larger diameter, stiffer construction, Throttle and Turbo Outlet Pipes by Spulen. My intercooler is the one by
APR and I found that it is impervious to heat soak, even on the most humid of days. All in all, the car runs 
beautifully and I couldn't be happier with my set-up.


----------



## soze (Apr 16, 2008)

Installed the SPM downpipe over the weekend with the Vibrant J Spacer facing front using the middle jet.

Got this:

Address 01: Engine (CBF) Labels: 06J-907-115-CBF.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 AD HW: 1K0 907 115 AD
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0060 
Revision: E3H12--- Serial number: VWX7Z0H13NF8PG
Coding: 040301081C070160
Shop #: WSC 26632 384 16544
VCID: 68D4601C5B8F405E337-803D

1 Fault Found:
001056 - Catalyst System; Bank 1 
P0420 - 000 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 88988 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 21:35:00

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2488 /min
Load: 24.3 %
Speed: 100.0 km/h
Temperature: 95.0°C
Temperature: 27.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V

Readiness: 0000 0000


----------



## soze (Apr 16, 2008)

Cleared the cell. Going to see how long it takes to come back.


----------



## 0-60Motorsports (Dec 27, 2009)

soze said:


> Cleared the cell. Going to see how long it takes to come back.





soze said:


> Installed the SPM downpipe over the weekend with the Vibrant J Spacer facing front using the middle jet.
> 
> Got this:
> 
> ...


I have the same and getting the same code. Let me know how it goes and what you do to get rid of the CEL. Thanks.


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## 1BlkCC-R (Oct 15, 2013)

Maybe you guys should try this spacer from Roc- Eurohttp://roc-euro.com/exhaust/oxygen-sensor-spacer.html 

I currently have one installed on the third O2 sensor only and have no CEL, I'm running a Euro-Jet downpipe with high flow cat and tune with Unitronic Stage 2.


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## veedubcos (Jul 12, 2006)

I was able to defeat my CEL this weekend. I was throwing the following codes P2096, P2196, and P0420.

My setup is APR 200 cel downpipe mated to the stock carback on CBFA GTI. 

First thing I did was track down the exhaust leak which caused the 2096 and 2196 codes. I did this by using a shop vac to pressurize the exhaust system. I put a shop towel in one tail pipe and the shop vac in the other. I then went and sprayed soapy water on the slip connection. 

I found the leak right before the cat. I used exhaust paste and it sealed completely. 

For the P0420 code I used two RAI J-Spacers (Both angled back). The first spacer was used on the second 02 bung( pre-cat) with the medium jet. The second was used without a jet post cat. 

I was able to set readiness with Vagcom and currently have 200 miles on this set up CEL free.

There are others that have tried this set up and succeeded. I am not saying it will work 100% as the CBFA's are a PITA.

Hope this helps you guys!


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## BryanMKIV (Jan 20, 2014)

I just want to add to this thread. I have the APR catted dp and the cbfa engine. I am using only a 42dd spacer on the 3rd o2 sensor. It's threaded about half way in and facing the front of the car. No CEL when on the stock non testpipe file.


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## imrcoolguy (Mar 3, 2014)

BryanMKIV said:


> I just want to add to this thread. I have the APR catted dp and the cbfa engine. I am using only a 42dd spacer on the 3rd o2 sensor. It's threaded about half way in and facing the front of the car. No CEL when on the stock non testpipe file.


Do you have pic


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## BryanMKIV (Jan 20, 2014)

imrcoolguy said:


> Do you have pic


I will try and take one tomorrow. What exactly do you want a pic of just the spacer?


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## imrcoolguy (Mar 3, 2014)

BryanMKIV said:


> I will try and take one tomorrow. What exactly do you want a pic of just the spacer?


If you can get a pic of where you placed the spacer that would help . I notice there is two sensor but I'm not sure which one to out the spacer on.


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## BryanMKIV (Jan 20, 2014)

I can't get under the car enough to get a decent pic. But it's on the sensor after the cat. So the closest one to the rear of the car. The 42dd spacer is angled and I have it so the opening on the spacer is facing the front. So essentially when you are screwing the sensor into the spacer. The tip of,the sensor is facing the rear of the car. I hope that makes sense lol.


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## 0-60Motorsports (Dec 27, 2009)

Guys,

what do you think of this?

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Spulen-Billet-O2-Sensor-Extender-SE-080.html


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## imrcoolguy (Mar 3, 2014)

Just install two rai spacers today drive for 100 miles and no CEL yet. I used the medium jet on second o2 and small jet on third o2. Both facing to the rear of the car. I'll keep everyone updated how everything goes.


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## PAvdubs86 (Apr 19, 2006)

This is a very informative thread. Thanks! I have a 2009 CBFA GTI and installed a catless Eurojet downpipe, also re-flashed APR Stage 2 non-testpipe file, and used the RAI spacer w/ small jet for 3rd sensor and a generic 90 degree bend spacer for the 2nd sensor. I no longer get the P0420 code but received P2096 and P0137. I replaced the 2nd o2 sensor thinking I may have messed up the wiring during install but unfortunately still have P0137. Maybe I have the 2nd sensor spaced to far from stream? Not sure. Will make o2 spacer adjustments when I get the exhaust leak figured out...see below.

I tested for exhaust leaks and found a downpipe flange bolt loose so I tightened them all down good and still had both codes. Re-tested for leaks again with shop vac and soap water spray and found the flange was still leaking even though it was all tightened down with a new gasket.



Last night I decided to take the whole downpipe apart and re-seal every connection (even downpipe flange where it meets the turbo) with exhaust paste. Also used high temp thread sealant on flange bolts...didn't want them to vibrate loose in the future. I also needed to adjust the placement of my testpipe section because I feared I may get moisture trapped in the o2 sensor spacers at the current way they were angled.

If I still have the P2096 code after this, I will have to start looking at other areas which may cause this CEL. Update to follow.


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## imrcoolguy (Mar 3, 2014)

imrcoolguy said:


> Just install two rai spacers today drive for 100 miles and no CEL yet. I used the medium jet on second o2 and small jet on third o2. Both facing to the rear of the car. I'll keep everyone updated how everything goes.


So after driving 175 miles I got the darn CEL again. I clear the code and took the car in for inspection and failed. I was and am a month late so I had to just go get my inspection done. I have a p0420 code and something else I forgot what the shop told me. I am taking the car back in Monday to run a few test to see if it's something like a valve or sensor is stuck. The shop told me it is common with these p0420 codes. I'll keep everyone update once I figure it out. I might have to play around with the spacers again.


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## morgan123 (May 23, 2012)

Just moved to Dallas from Alabama so I'm new to the whole emission inspection thing.
I'm running a catless Eurojet DP with APR stage 2.
I'm planning on buying the modular 200cel cat 2 RAI J-pipe spacers (I'm CBFA)

I would like to check whether I would pass before going in for inspection and I'm reading about these 'readiness' testing performed with VAGCOM.
I guess I have to have VAGCOM to do those tests? I have an OBDII dongle that I can check my engine codes with but that's it.


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## vinyvolingy (Jul 17, 2013)

Hey guys trying to bring this thread back. I have a 2013 CBFA with a unitronic stage 2 tune. I followed this thread and put the BFI spacer pre cat and the RAI with smallest jet post cat. I've drove 118 miles and I got a CEL. Posted pictures below. Car shows readiness minus having the CEL to pass unfortunately. Cleared the codes and going to drive some more tomorrow. Anyone have similar things happen to them?


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## BringerOdeath (Feb 28, 2013)

veedubcos said:


> I was able to defeat my CEL this weekend. I was throwing the following codes P2096, P2196, and P0420.
> 
> My setup is APR 200 cel downpipe mated to the stock carback on CBFA GTI.
> 
> ...


I had failed the catalyst on the readiness test with p0420 bank one intermittent too low DTC. I only had the Rai spacer with the smallest insert facing forward. I added the 42dd spacer facing the back of the car since the 02 cable wouldnt reach. So with the 42dd spacer on the second 02 sensor facing back and the rai facing forward with smallest insert. I reran the test and passed the readiness test like veedubcos. Should I pass inspection now? Should the top readiness code be all 0's? Is that normal?

Thanks!


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## SIMPLE_JOHN (Apr 21, 2010)

2010 GTI CBFA , I installed 1 J vibrant spacer w/ med jet into my APR DP after the cat and Force all test using vagcom. I'm from NJ, I went to DMV emissions and I passed! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Anyone have any experience with he CTS Turbo systems and these issues on the CBFA engine? Shopping around for an exhaust system and really don't want to have much trouble with this :banghead:


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## soze (Apr 16, 2008)

I gave up playing with spacers on the SPM downpipe and sold it off.

Bought AWE downpipe. 100+ miles on it and so far so good.


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## 0-60Motorsports (Dec 27, 2009)

soze said:


> I gave up playing with spacers on the SPM downpipe and sold it off.
> 
> Bought AWE downpipe. 100+ miles on it and so far so good.


I have the catted SPM DP and all i needed was one spacer and the CEL never came back.


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## Red Storm (Jun 12, 2014)

Can someone please post the distance between the last 2 O2 bungs for the cbfa dp? I believe I read somewhere that its 17", I just would like to verify.

yes, tried the search, Thanks!


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## vath (May 9, 2004)

I can when I go home for lunch...


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## Red Storm (Jun 12, 2014)

vath said:


> I can when I go home for lunch...


Great! :thumbup:


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## vath (May 9, 2004)

Red Storm said:


> Can someone please post the distance between the last 2 O2 bungs for the cbfa dp? I believe I read somewhere that its 17", I just would like to verify.
> 
> yes, tried the search, Thanks!


APR Downpipe: 15" center to center

VW Stock: 16.5" center to center


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## Red Storm (Jun 12, 2014)

vath said:


> APR Downpipe: 15" center to center
> 
> VW Stock: 16.5" center to center


Thanks!!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Mikeyday07 (Aug 11, 2015)

I have 3 o2 sensor one in manifold one in cat and one after if I run the 90 degree spacer on the one that would normally be in the cat and the 42 one on the post cat sensor will that eliminate my cel for cat efficiency. I tired one on the last one and I got the efficiency. Code so I moved it to the center one and now I have a code for it running to lean.


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## BryanMKIV (Jan 20, 2014)

Mikeyday07 said:


> I have 3 o2 sensor one in manifold one in cat and one after if I run the 90 degree spacer on the one that would normally be in the cat and the 42 one on the post cat sensor will that eliminate my cel for cat efficiency. I tired one on the last one and I got the efficiency. Code so I moved it to the center one and now I have a code for it running to lean.


My previous post:

I just want to add to this thread. I have the APR catted dp and the cbfa engine. I am using only a 42dd spacer on the 3rd o2 sensor. It's threaded about half way in and facing the front of the car. No CEL when on the stock non testpipe file.

You might just have to fiddle with it.


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm gonna give this a shot cause my gas mileage is shot


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## VirgoPHD (Dec 12, 2014)

BryanMKIV said:


> My previous post:
> 
> I just want to add to this thread. I have the APR catted dp and the cbfa engine. I am using only a 42dd spacer on the 3rd o2 sensor. It's threaded about half way in and facing the front of the car. No CEL when on the stock non testpipe file.
> 
> You might just have to fiddle with it.


how many miles?


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## BryanMKIV (Jan 20, 2014)

VirgoPHD said:


> how many miles?


No longer have the car, and mostly the time I had it I was running the APR stage 2 tune which eliminated the cel anyways. However I ran it for about a month when my stock clutch started slipping I put it back on stock tune and never a CeL, and to get it inspected I always put back on stock tune and drove a few hundred miles before inspections and never had the CEL. So I think it's safe to say it works just fine.


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Here in NY and looking to go stage 2 hopefully soon with my 08 CBFA. This thread has amazing info . Just to be clear about emissions, if I'm able to clear any codes relating to cat efficiency with the spacer combos, and I get an inspection in "stock mode" with no CEL, I should be able to pass, correct? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BryanMKIV (Jan 20, 2014)

rebeccawaltuhs said:


> Here in NY and looking to go stage 2 hopefully soon with my 08 CBFA. This thread has amazing info . Just to be clear about emissions, if I'm able to clear any codes relating to cat efficiency with the spacer combos, and I get an inspection in "stock mode" with no CEL, I should be able to pass, correct?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, as long as there is no software preventing the cel from coming on. And as long as the inspector doesnt lift the car up and look at the spacer and give you a hard time. Which is doubtful. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

The Eurojet downpipe seems to be the best next too the AWE in terms of being able to eliminate the cel. But has anyone purchased a USPmotorsports catted downpipe and eliminated the cel? They are similar but just seeing if anyone has experience with it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kiyokix (Dec 16, 2005)

rebeccawaltuhs said:


> The Eurojet downpipe seems to be the best next too the AWE in terms of being able to eliminate the cel. But has anyone purchased a USPmotorsports catted downpipe and eliminated the cel? They are similar but just seeing if anyone has experience with it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have the USP 3 inch catted downpipe, but I do not have any spacers installed yet, I have to get inspected in September, so pretty soon I will begin the spacer hunt, but a friend of mine has one from 42dd that he'll sell me. 

Anything I find, I'll be sure to post up. 👍

Kei


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## Red Storm (Jun 12, 2014)

I use the RAI spacers, so far, so good. No cat either....

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Kiyokix (Dec 16, 2005)

Red Storm said:


> I use the RAI spacers, so far, so good. No cat either....
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


👍

Kei


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Kiyokix said:


> I have the USP 3 inch catted downpipe, but I do not have any spacers installed yet, I have to get inspected in September, so pretty soon I will begin the spacer hunt, but a friend of mine has one from 42dd that he'll sell me.
> 
> Anything I find, I'll be sure to post up.
> 
> Kei


Ah yes that's perfect. Thanks man! I would def try the rai spacers first. They seem to be the best 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grabbit (Apr 27, 2001)

Hate to bring this back from the dead but I need some help.

Got a 2010 GTI CBFA with APR stage 1 and catless dp I haven't installed yet. The dp is meant for a CCTA and only has two 02 bungs. I have a bung for it that I was going to weld it in but reading this thread it sounds like I need to be careful where it goes. Any ideas how far I need to space it from the turbo and the other bung that is downstream? 

Also, to defeat the CEL should I go with two Vibrant J spacers or....?? I don't have emissions where I live but I really don't want to stare at a CEL. Thinking it may be better to just upgrade to stage II....


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## atanasmk3 (Sep 12, 2012)

How to tell which motor I have?08 Passat cover says FSI. FRONT OF CYLINDER HEAD SAY BPY?


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## digital_mystic (May 15, 2013)

Not sure if this reply will be read, but I was looking to get a bit of advice/clarity on the right configuration since there seems to be differing solutions. 

I currently have an APR 3" catted downpipe and the stock catback. I ended up getting two of the newer unlabeled 42dd spacers (not sure if they act any different from the originals) to be safe, and was wondering how I should install them.. all the way in? halfway in for the post-cat port? nut or no nut? which direction for both, or does it matter? I appreciate any input


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## vath (May 9, 2004)

digital_mystic said:


> Not sure if this reply will be read, but I was looking to get a bit of advice/clarity on the right configuration since there seems to be differing solutions.
> 
> I currently have an APR 3" catted downpipe and the stock catback. I ended up getting two of the newer unlabeled 42dd spacers (not sure if they act any different from the originals) to be safe, and was wondering how I should install them.. all the way in? halfway in for the post-cat port? nut or no nut? which direction for both, or does it matter? I appreciate any input


I think this will be a little trial and error since all setups are a little different. I can't physically see my setup without jacking the car up, but I did list it earlier in this thread years ago and it likely hasn't changed. I'd highly recommend getting a VAGCOM for diagnosing and clearing codes and definitely for customizing your GTI.


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## atanasmk3 (Sep 12, 2012)

i have same issue i am runnuing a a 3in downpipe with no cat so 3in pipe all way to muffler. every 200 miles or so i would get this code P0137 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2: Signal too Low. in order to get the o2 installed i had to run a 90 degree o2 spacer so i bought one on the picture. but with it i get signal to low as i stated. i cannot install the o2 sensor with out due to 3in pipe and sensor hits the tunnel. do you guys think if i got different style 90 degree s[pacer it will stop giving me this code? 
recently i started getting this code now as well.
P2196 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Signal too High (Rich)


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## BODH1 (Nov 24, 2011)

digital_mystic said:


> Not sure if this reply will be read, but I was looking to get a bit of advice/clarity on the right configuration since there seems to be differing solutions.
> 
> I currently have an APR 3" catted downpipe and the stock catback. I ended up getting two of the newer unlabeled 42dd spacers (not sure if they act any different from the originals) to be safe, and was wondering how I should install them.. all the way in? halfway in for the post-cat port? nut or no nut? which direction for both, or does it matter? I appreciate any input


I know this is a month old, but when I had my 2010 stage 2, I threaded it I believe just a 1/3rd of the way in and never got a CEL. This was probably 8 or so years ago though. Good luck.


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