# 2002 2.0 L - total lack of power?



## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*2002 2.0 L - total lack of power - UPDATE*

This car has been my wifes since day one - after 135K miles a flawless car until now.
Driving to work last week she had a sudden loss of power. Engine codes were:
0300 - random misfire
0301
0303
0304
0420 - catalyst below threshold
0102 - mass airflow - low input
Car was due for a tune up, so I replaced spark plugs, fuel filter, tested the plug wires - all were within 6000 Ohms of resistance, broke the damn coil - replaced it with a brand new one, put fuel injector cleaner in the gas and tried it again - no luck.
The car ran OK at first, but as it warmed up it got worse - to the point it is extremely sluggish and asthmatic. 
any miracle cure?
Thank you all for helping


_Modified by tradrockrat at 9:31 AM 5-16-2008_


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

You can try cleaning the MAF, but it looks like it is shot. You may clear the other codes with a good maf. If you continue to run with misfires, you'll destroy the cat and have to replace it, too.


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

heck - if it's just a sensor I'm pretty happy - I was worried about a blown head gasket or something.
I'll clean the MAF and buy a new one if that doesn't fix the problem - then I'll post back.
Thanks


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Wait for confirmation from someone a little more qualified than a MKIII shade tree mechanic!


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## Pitsy (Oct 27, 2007)

*Re: 2002 2.0 L - total lack of power? (tradrockrat)*

Checking the resistance of the plug wires won't tell you if they leak or not. Get a spray bottle of water and start up your motor in a dark place. Spray a fine mist of water on the plug wires, distributor, and coil. Look for arcing.


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

From previous experience, I trust shade tree mechanics far more than the "real " ones.








I tried water on the coil before,. but didn't get any arcing - I'm going out to try water on the wires specifically with a cleaned MAF - see what I've got.

Oh yeah, what do VW engineers use in their products to make them cost so much?!?! I've got quotes from $199 - to $139 for a MAF sensor - I was expecting along the lines of 40-60 bucks!


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (tradrockrat)*

So I cleaned the MAF and tested the spark plug wires. No arcing, but the car still loses power after warming up. It is much more severe when starting from a standstill, but it does exist across the range of gears and RPM's.
when starting the car and turning it off, the engine sounds like it is over pressurized or maybe even losing pressure???? Can not isolate the noise, but it seems to be coming from around the throttle control sensor area. Maybe the gaping sound is normal...
This is a manual transmission if that means anything.
My real problem is that I seem to be working on a car that was a transition model - the coil, throttle control sensor, and a few other things are NOT what is in the Haynes manual.
So any idea on how to test the throttle control sensor for a 2002 Jetta 2.0 L? It looks nothing like the one pictured in my manual.
I'd like to test it before spending 140 $ on a new MAF sensor


_Modified by tradrockrat at 9:43 AM 5-16-2008_


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Haynes manuals for VWs are awful, Invest in a Bentley shop manual... I could try and look around in mine tonight after work and see if I can dig up something... what engine code do you have?


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Jay-Bee)*

0300 - random misfire
0301
0303
0304
0420 - catalyst below threshold
0102 - mass airflow - low input


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Not the trouble codes but your Engine model code. '02 can be AZG or BBW and maybe even AVH.
Take a look on you timing belt cover, there should be a sticker that will have one of those 3 codes on it.


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Jay-Bee)*

D'oh!!

AVH
I must be the big winner?


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## Pitsy (Oct 27, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tradrockrat)*

Say, how do you like Austin?


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Pitsy)*

Love it. Just wish we had a car to go places in...

Here's the deal with the car - At this point I'm throwing money at it hoping to fix it - I have replaced airfilter and MAS, spark plugs and coil, fuel filter and added injector cleaner - I'm not putting another dime into this bastard until I know whats wrong with it. 
Trouble codes are pretty much worthless - they are basically telling me what my ear can hear - that the cylinders are misfiring.
I defy anyone to explain why 4000 sensors and a computer are better than a distributer cap.
The car runs absolutely fine at start up. As the temp increases, the performance decreases until around 150 degrees when the damn thing suddenly loses all power and stutters around like an asthmatic old piece of garbage. If there was ANY smoke at all coming out of the exhaust I would swear it was a blown head gasket.


_Modified by tradrockrat at 1:14 PM 5-16-2008_


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tradrockrat)*

so after a few days of cruising this site now I have a new question - I found this quote under head gasket search:

_Quote »_Two ways to tell.
Ron's test number 1
Take the Res cap off and rubber band a latex glove over the opening.
start the car, glove inflates bad gasket.... But sometimes you only see this after the car is warmed.
Test 2.
When the car is warm, are the hoses looking like they are going to burst? As they are under pressure and normally don't get so tight that you can't squeeze them at all.

I did the glove trick on the coolant res (I'm assuming that's the RES he meant) and after the car reached around 150-160 degrees, the glove would flutter AFTER I let off the gas.
Is this indicative of a bad gasket? Tomorrow is Saturday and I'll give the whole day up to replacing the head gasket if that's the culprit. My cylinder pressure gauge is no good for a deep welled spark plug hole like this Jetta has - should I go and buy a new one that will work?
Would a blown head gasket send these codes?
Grrrrr.....


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

I might try taking the O2 sensors out or disconnecting the exhaust before the cat to see if it runs any better.


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

can't hurt to try, but disconnecting the cat is a stone b!tch on this car - I can take out the 4 bolts connecting it to the exhaust manifold, but the clamp connecting it to the rear exhaust assembly (muffler, tail pipe, etc) is rusted together.
I'll pull the o2 sensors and check that first I guess.
EDIT: oh yeah - thanks for all the suggestions and advice - It' helps a lot to have ideas bounced around with others.


_Modified by tradrockrat at 10:49 AM 5-17-2008_


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (tradrockrat)*

Ran the car without the O2 sensors in. The car took longer to warm up, but around 150 degrees it lost power again - not as much, but I think that's because the flow was much less restricted with two holes in the exhaust system.
so long story short - the problem still exists.
I REALLY don't want to spend the next 5 hours putting in a head gasket if that's not the problem, but more and more I'm thinking...


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## jwellspk (May 17, 2008)

Hi Dan:
I am having a similar problem with my wife's old 2000 2.0lt (155K), but it doesn't seem to be temperature related. Ours misfires terribly and loses power whenever it is put under a load i.e. acceleration. I had a seried of codes similar to yours, but after replacing the rear O2, fuel filter, plugs--#2 broken in two at the insulator--, wires, coil pack, cleaning the MAFS and throttle body, cleaning the oil cap/PCV and replacing several leaking or collasped vaccume lines, I have gotten rid of all codes but the ones for misfire on cylinders 1 and 2. I have a have tested the injectors (12-20 ohms) per a VW mechanic's instructions and run injector cleaner and a tank of high test through the car--prior to the huge gas price increases thank God--. I have had very minimal improvement if any, other than the reduction in codes. Please let me know if the head gasket solves your problem. I suspect mine is somewhere else though. I have noticed a lot of corrosion in the battery leads and am going to replace them first. Also my friend said he thinks there might have been a technical bulletin about poor grounding straps for the injectors that can cause misfires, but he wasn't sure if my engine was included, or not. He is researching it further and will get back to me. Anyone else have any suggestions?


_Modified by jwellspk at 4:21 PM 5-17-2008_


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## Cogtx (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: 2002 2.0 L - total lack of power - UPDATE (tradrockrat)*

Sounds like you have gone through quite a bit to get the dub running. My 01 golf with 130K was giving me some probs like that and found to be the crank position sensor located behind the fuel filter. Might run your codes again and check to see if that may be an issue...here is link to pics
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3620775


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## sciroccoboy16v (Sep 4, 2006)

*Re: 2002 2.0 L - total lack of power - UPDATE (Cogtx)*

try holding the coil wire above the distributor rotor while the vehicle is having the problem
crank the engine and see if the spark jumps to the rotor
if it does there is a path to ground in the rotor
replace the rotor
seen this before on several cars


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## Brass Monkey013 (Aug 21, 2007)

*Re: (tradrockrat)*

_Modified by Brass Monkey013 at 12:53 PM 5-18-2008_


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## tradrockrat (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (Brass Monkey013)*

well - I'm at the point where I'm replacing the intake manifold gaskets just in case and getting ready to tackle the damn head gasket.
I tried replacing the gasket where the intake manifold joins the throttle body, but as usual, around 100+ degrees it's like a switch is thrown and the car just losses all power.
I have to get the car to an auto store to run the codes and right now it won't make it - at least I'm not willing to drive it that far on misfiring cylinders to make it.
This sucks.
Has anyone EVER heard of this car doing things like this before?


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## jwellspk (May 17, 2008)

*Re: (tradrockrat)*

Dan:
I know it has been a very long time since you were having problems with your Beetle. I had to stop driving mine back in May because it got so bad. I replaced the plugs, the coil, the plug wires, and positive battery cables, which were heavilly corroded along with the fuseable link on the terminal block. Nothing has helped! In fact, things have gotten worse. My car is now missing on all 4 cylinders. I am writing because I think I may have found the problem. Apparently there is a Service Bulletin that addresses this sort of probelm. The coil ground wire is inadequate and needs replacement. A friend that works for VW finally found the SB and has ordered the parts for me($30 or so). Hopefiully this will solve the problem as my wife would love to start driving a 30 MPG car again. Let me know if you are still having trouble and i'll send you more details.


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## 2.SlowMK4 (Jan 24, 2007)

*Re: 2002 2.0 L - total lack of power - UPDATE (tradrockrat)*

When we get a p0420 code at work, we automatically recommend a new cat.
EDIT for reading more:
When the car is first started up cold, the computer ignores the o2 senors until the car and cat convert. is warmed up, then it starts reading the o2 sensors. If the cat convert. cant do its job, the o2 sensors are gonna read it and the computer is going to try to compensate. The misfires probably aren't helping the cat convert. either. Unburned fuel melts cat converters.


_Modified by 2.SlowMK4 at 11:50 PM 10-21-2008_


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