# Paint Blistering, Corrosion on Exterior Mirror Trim Surround (Black Colour Part)



## gdemos (Feb 5, 2012)

I've heard from some folks in the UK that there was a recall due to paint quality issues.
particularly i have a problem with the black paint at the mirror frame and a problem with silver engine paint blistering.

so my local dealer told me that this paint issue was Not a recall (only recall he noted in the US being a coil issue).

Can any US owners with such experience tell me if they've found similar issues and adequate resolution?
I do have a deluxe warranty for the next 60k miles; but i'd imagine if anything this would be a recall potential.

was there a recall in the US for these paint problems? 
Thanks,
Greg


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

I've got the same problem with the black paint flaking off the curved surround of the driver side rear-view mirror on my car. It's not coming off the triangular metal part that is planar to the window, it's coming off the mirror cover itself.

I think it is far too late in the game to ask VW to cover this under any form of warranty. In my case, my MY 2004 Phaeton - which was actually built in September of 2003 - is now 8.5 years old. There is no possibility of corrosion happening as a result of this paint failure (the mirror housing is plastic), and VW's warranty literature is pretty clear - these kind of cosmetic defects are not covered on 8.5 year old cars.

Sooner or later, I'll get the mirror housings repainted at my own expense.

Michael


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## acoop (Jan 2, 2012)

*paint flaking and reimbursement*

hi guys. If i am not mistaken the corrosion part of "our" warranty is still in existence. Anyway, my dealer saw this issue...paint flaking next to the mirror but on the door right adjacent to the chrome strip...I was reimbursed to repaint the door. this was however 3 years ago. I will check my owners manual..i think the coverage for corrosion is 8 years or more. and if paint peels away from the car..that will most certainly lead to corrosion.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> I've got the same problem with the black paint flaking off the curved surround of the driver side rear-view mirror on my car. It's not coming off the triangular metal part that is planar to the window, it's coming off the mirror cover itself.
> 
> I think it is far too late in the game to ask VW to cover this under any form of warranty. In my case, my MY 2004 Phaeton - which was actually built in September of 2003 - is now 8.5 years old. There is no possibility of corrosion happening as a result of this paint failure (the mirror housing is plastic), and VW's warranty literature is pretty clear - these kind of cosmetic defects are not covered on 8.5 year old cars.
> 
> ...


Michael,

surely if VW owe anyone some "goodwill" it has to be you! Go on give them a try! How's the trip?

Stu


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## JulianBenjamin (Jun 22, 2007)

I don't have paint peeling yet, just bubbling on the shiny black of the a-piller where the mirror meets the door. However no one else seems to notice it but me.


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## gdemos (Feb 5, 2012)

*paint blistering warranty or recall in US? paint on mirror frame paint on engine*

why would the same issue be resolved via recall in the UK, while not in the US? Do you guys just have louder voices over there? My guess it is shear numbers: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/usa/business/2012-03/14/content_14836018.htm

My guess it was a problem that did not suddenly appear after 8 years. Though the car is new to me, my guess is these paint issues surfaced years prior.
This is not to say that I'm questioning VWofA quality control within the conglomerate, but there seems to be a disconnect. I'm not an angry guy, but seems like they missed a spot.

If I knew of an avenue to pursue, I would.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

gdemos said:


> why would the same issue be resolved via recall in the UK, while not in the US? Do you guys just have louder voices over there?


 Louder voices and much better consumer protection.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi, 

just to clarify, the paint problems on UK Phaetons were primarily cathodic corrosion of the door itself. VW UK have been pretty good with regards to this and have usually replaced trim as part of the work carried out. 
My SWB is at VW as we speak for all four doors to have remedial work performed under warranty (although VW are at pains to point out that this is "goodwill". They are also replacing the gloss black window trims and the lower plastic (stupid design) door mouldings F.O.C. 
My only concern is I dropped the car off three weeks ago and haven't heard so much as a whisper from them since! They probably stripped it and either found the problem to be worse than envisaged, or, (more likely) they don't know how to put it back together! This, by the way is the same dealer that dropped all the transmission fluid from a V6 TDi, only to realise they didn't know how to fill it back up!!!! 
Still, no rush. 

Stu


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## gdemos (Feb 5, 2012)

louder voices, better consumer protection...and much more patience! 3 weeks is alot of new york minutes. 

Well, I agree 8.5 years is a long time past; I can see that with mechanical parts, but paint is something I'd imagine would have a better life. Clearly it is not an owner neglect or abuse issue, it is an issue with the paint.


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

The paint on the mirror base, passenger side, is blistering on mine. 

I thought it was corrosion from inside, but Michael says it is plastic?


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## gdemos (Feb 5, 2012)

sounds like you have the same issue I have as well. I believe Michael was referring to the mirror housing itself, not the black paint where mirror joins frame which is the area in question for me. our issue is this area specifically, where the mirror meets the window


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## 53 0val (Feb 23, 2010)

Itzmann said:


> The paint on the mirror base, passenger side, is blistering on mine.
> 
> I thought it was corrosion from inside, but Michael says it is plastic?


 I think it is some type of tape. The dealer "repainted" mine in less than an hour. 

Bob


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Hey guys, I have the same Issue. Just bought mine a few months ago and noticed these issues at the dealer i bought her from. The black triangular mirror mount is bubbling- didn't think it was plastic but that would be nice knowing its not rust under there. I also have the peeling on the engine valve covers. Haven't even thought to try to get VW to repaint the parts but Ill definitely be checking into it at Suncoast Motorsports of Sarasota FL. Jordan.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> The black triangular mirror mount is bubbling- didn't think it was plastic but that would be nice knowing its not rust under there.


 The mirror base is made from cast alloy and is coated with glossy black powder paint (which is baked on at high temperature). 

There is really no "easy" fix. The bubling is caused by corrosion of the aluminium body. This most likely has to do with contact corrosion. Seems to me, that the corrosion gets started at the lower edge of the mirror triangle, where it contacts the chrome strip running on the bottom of the window glass. 

The corrosion then progresses under the paint and it gets worse gradually. Finally, the top paint coat will flake away. It surely looks nasty then. 

This issue is common for "too many" VW models. It is corrosion on an accessory part, not on the car's body. VW factory, generally speaking, does not compensate for this kind of fault after normal warranty period. Dealers may make exceptions at their own expense. 

Unfortunately the only "proper" fix is to replace the whole mirror base. This assembly includes "nearly" all mirror parts, except for the plastic (body colored) mirror cap and the glass. As you can imagine, this assembly is pretty expensive, costs between 250€/$300 and 400€/$500 per side, depending on exact type. 

I did both sides on my car last year. Got pristine, used mirror bases for a relatively good price. There is quite a lot of disassembly required: you will have to take out the inner door panels and the inner window frame. I would say at least one hour of work per side. 

I suspect that the new mirrors won't last forever, either. I kept my old ones in storage and am planning to have them repainted if ever the "new" ones exhibit the same symptoms. Giving them a good paint job is really tough. One should disassemble everything from the mirror base. It is not easy, as there is a spring mechanism keeping the base and the outer mirror frame together. Once everything's apart, it would probably require a mild sand blasting to get the old paint and corroded aluminium away. Though sand blasting of alloy is never recommended... Then, you would need to use filler to fix the "moon surface" on the corroded part. Then paint on. As you can't use "baked on" paint on top of filler but need to paint with "regular" stuff, I suspect the end result will not be as durable as it originally was. 

Alternatively, one could just scrape of any flaking paint and apply black hammerite. Will not look anywhere as good as new, but if the only alternative is to pay 800€ for new mirrors... 

Jouko


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## FootSore (Aug 22, 2006)

*Body protection warranty* 
All current Volkswagen vehicles are fully protected during manufacture against through corrosion for 12 years from the date of first registration (6 years for the Sharan models). 

The only preconditions are: 


The defect must be reported to a member of the Volkswagen Authorised Network as soon as it is discovered and within the warranty period. 

The perforation must not have been caused originally by damage, neglect, insufficient care or maintenance or by external rusting. 

A member of the Volkswagen Authorised Network must be advised about any rusting as soon as it is found. 

All body repairs will be carried out promptly in accordance with the manufacturer's specification and procedures, using only approved parts and materials, so the original level of anti-corrosion protection is maintained 

 

VW replaced all 4-doors on my Phaeton as corrosion was too bad to repair the doors. They used the word warranty and never once metnioned goodwill. 
It is/was corrosion from the inside and therefore should be covered. They also replaced a number of the black gloss trims on the windows and one of the wing mirror assemblies. Garage bill to VW was v.large. I would expect £5-6k. 

It did take 7 weeks to get completed but had Christmas in the middle and they had given me a good loaner. I had told them I wasn't in a hurry. 

It went in two days late as they hadn't finished the previous Phaeton. They were taking another in the same time mine left and I saw another with all 4-doors missing! 

I applaud the way VW handled the whole process and would make me want to buy another VW in the future. 

Dave


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## gdemos (Feb 5, 2012)

Dave, thanks for the summary and details on your experience. I can only expect push back when I approach my local dealer so being armed with this information is greatly appreciated. I am going to assume this 12 year warranty is well documented and therefore something I can hold my ground to when I do go in to the dealer? Can you provide any reference point to where you found this? I assume also it is a fully transferable coverage (between owners).

I hope that others that have these noted corrosion issues also take these measures that Dave outlined. the 12 year is in-line with reasonable expectations for corrosion. I plan on popping in to the dealer next week.

-Greg


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

jkuisma said:


> The mirror base is made from cast alloy and is coated with glossy black powder paint (which is baked on at high temperature).
> 
> There is really no "easy" fix. The bubling is caused by corrosion of the aluminium body. This most likely has to do with contact corrosion. Seems to me, that the corrosion gets started at the lower edge of the mirror triangle, where it contacts the chrome strip running on the bottom of the window glass.
> 
> ...





FootSore said:


> *Body protection warranty*
> All current Volkswagen vehicles are fully protected during manufacture against through corrosion for 12 years from the date of first registration (6 years for the Sharan models).
> 
> The only preconditions are:
> ...



To the first quote. Thank you for the info. As long as it doesn't jump across to any other major or not panels, I don't see it being a massive headache in the future other than an eye sore that I only seem to notice. 

To the second quote. Thank you very much as well for all the good info. It seems to me that its pretty hit or miss with dealerships on if they choose to accept certain "cases" or not. Ill definitely be trying to get my local D-ship to take pride in their name and help me out. Ill be sure to let you all know my findings.

Jordan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

gdemos said:


> Dave, thanks for the summary and details on your experience. I can only expect push back when I approach my local dealer so being armed with this information is greatly appreciated. I am going to assume this 12 year warranty is well documented and therefore something I can hold my ground to when I do go in to the dealer? Can you provide any reference point to where you found this? I assume also it is a fully transferable coverage (between owners).
> 
> I hope that others that have these noted corrosion issues also take these measures that Dave outlined. the 12 year is in-line with reasonable expectations for corrosion. I plan on popping in to the dealer next week.
> 
> -Greg



Good luck!


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## 53 0val (Feb 23, 2010)

jkuisma said:


> The mirror base is made from cast alloy and is coated with glossy black powder paint (which is baked on at high temperature).
> 
> There is really no "easy" fix. The bubling is caused by corrosion of the aluminium body. This most likely has to do with contact corrosion. Seems to me, that the corrosion gets started at the lower edge of the mirror triangle, where it contacts the chrome strip running on the bottom of the window glass.
> 
> ...



They sure didn't do that to mine....... I dropped the car off at 8am and had it back by noon. I could have picked it up earlier, but I couldn't get a ride.  I'll contact them next week and see what went down, and how. It looks exactly the same without the bubble. (and exactly the same as the left side) I'm sure it did not spend more than an hour in the body shop.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> I'll contact them next week and see what went down, and how. It looks exactly the same without the bubble. (and exactly the same as the left side) I'm sure it did not spend more than an hour in the body shop.


Do report back if you find out what they did. It might just be possible to R&R the mirror in about an hour. But the only fix I can imagine is replacing the whole mirror assembly. 

It is ALWAYS a good idea to refer to the 12-year through rusting warranty. Unfortunately, it's not very often when it is honored on other parts than car's body panels. I too had my doors re-painted recently (mine's a 2005) on "warranty". Mirrors? No dice. You may of course have better luck. There's a "technical bulletin" issued on the window trim, so I assume they will be covered. Another type fault, the lower plastic trim on doors, not covered...

Jouko


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

jkuisma said:


> Do report back if you find out what they did. It might just be possible to R&R the mirror in about an hour. But the only fix I can imagine is replacing the whole mirror assembly.
> 
> It is ALWAYS a good idea to refer to the 12-year through rusting warranty. Unfortunately, it's not very often when it is honored on other parts than car's body panels. I too had my doors re-painted recently (mine's a 2005) on "warranty". Mirrors? No dice. You may of course have better luck. There's a "technical bulletin" issued on the window trim, so I assume they will be covered. Another type fault, the lower plastic trim on doors, not covered...
> 
> Jouko


Jouko,

the dealers seem quite happy to replace the lower door trims here in the UK, Have had two set up to now. First set I had to argue about, second set (different dealer) was done without me even asking!

Stu


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

My 3.5 year old UK Phaeton is currently at the dealers to repaint all 4 doors (for the second time !). When I took it in the very helpfull technician looked for, and found, corrosion under the boot lid and under the bonnet (hood). He said all this would be covered by the warranty (including the chrome & lower plastic door trims). 

I also pointed out the bubbling paint on the wing mirrors but he said that VW can be "A BIT FUNNY" about replacing these under warranty and they may only cover part of the cost for this.
Has anyone in the UK had them replaced free of charge on a Phaeton over 3 years old ?


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## FootSore (Aug 22, 2006)

I had a wing mirror replaced. They even replaced the actual indicator which had a coming together.

They did the doors (4), some window trims, one wing mirror trim and the indicator flasy bit. Most is VW corrosion warranty. I suspect the indicator flasher was just dealership good will based on the fact they had billed VW for so much! They aren't very expensive (and sadly I had already ordered and paid for a replacement one which is now in the shed).

But they did replace the black bit as well.

Car is looking good but what with the boot opening issue, brake discs/pads and door warranty work it has spent half the winter in the garage. MOT due this month and will need service by May so two more trips to the garage. No wonder I get so much goodwill at the dealership. Tyres by June!

120,000 miles passed last week.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Mine went to the paint shop Friday for photos and a report to VW for 4 doors to be repainted. VW UK need photos set up with labelling in a standard report format.

There will be a delay while this is assessed at VW UK to see if it's covered under the corrosion warranty.

Chris


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

I have been told that VW will be doing my mirrors under warranty.

Paximus - while you are at it check VERY carefully under the bonnet and boot lid as you might notice a few corrosion spots under there which should be done under warranty. 

This whole corrosion issue must be costing VW an absolute fortune - surely more than any profit they made from selling the Phaeton ?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

It happens on A8 doors too, and maybe Bentley. Thanks for the tip - yes, I checked boot and bonnet lids OK.

I guess the whole Phaeton project was part of the VW image upgrade post-Beetle & micro-van, recouped from Golf and Passat sales, or at least with no drop in sales of those compared to BMW, Ford and Toyota.

My car listed at £78k and in incremental terms probably cost £25k to manufacture, pre-taxes, so I guess VW can look after themselves!

Chris


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## OliverG (Jan 30, 2012)

Paximus said:


> My car listed at £78k and in incremental terms probably cost £25k to manufacture, pre-taxes, so I guess VW can look after themselves!
> 
> Chris


I think you will find it cost a heck of a lot more than £25k to manufacture the V10... I was told including all the R&D, marketing, building the glass factory, etc costs means each Phaeton cost VW c£90k .... they've lost money on every single one, but it was to improve image and absorb the real cost of developing the Bentley Continental. 

I agree that VW must have spent a fortune on the corrosion issue... mine has had all doors done once, two have been done twice, and it is currently in about to have another done!


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Oh well, no gain without pain.

I agree about the massive factory costs - but by 'incremental' I meant the extra cost of making one extra car against the costs of running the whole show.

Cheers,
Chris


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## stefanuk (Jul 7, 2010)

I think the corrosion issue for VW must be a nightmare in terms of how mcuh it's costing them.
I've had my rear doors done twice now, front doors once and the boot lid has also had a respray due to corrosion.

Stefan


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## stefanuk (Jul 7, 2010)

Thought i'd just let eveyone know that i've picked my car up today from the bodyshop having had both the front doors repaired due to corrosion, again. 
This time the bonnet was also repaired as it had corrosion bubbling under the paint, at the leading edge where it meets the grill, in 2 spots about 1" in from the corner on each side. I'm not sure if this is an area that's been highlighted before for corrosion as i've not seen anything in previous posts. 
VW were very good and within a week of reporting the corrosion to the dealer the work was authorized and in th ebodyship. 
I'm glad to get my car back as the courtesy car was a 1.2 Polo. Interestingly i used more fuel in the Polo than my car and i put this down to using the engine harder to get any performance form it. The moral i guess being that small cars are fuel efficient if they don't leave the town,whereas a big engine is hardly turning over on the motorway so uses less fuel. 

Stefan


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## gartracescort (Apr 4, 2010)

I have been told categorically by both the dealer and Liverpool body shop that we have 12 year body warranty. Mine needs to go in for the third time for the doors in 3 years.....do they employ any chemists? Liverpool were utterly appalling first time around, tried to con me, but I hear the manager and some team have been changed. 

A good friend of mine tells me that all VW group have trouble with paint falling off alloy panels. Water based paint?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

gdemos said:


> ...I believe Michael was referring to the mirror housing itself, not the black paint where mirror joins frame which is the area in question for me.


 Actually, I have two very different problems related to paint on exterior rear view mirrors: 

*1) *The paint is flaking off of the leading edge of the rounded mirror fairing on the driver side of my car (I am pretty sure that this round fairing that encases the mirror itself is made of plastic), and; 

*2)* There is corrosion (and bubbling paint) on the triangular metal piece that is inboard and forward of the mirror fairing - although this is on the other side of the car.  

I have no idea why the paint is coming off of the round mirror fairing, especially why it is only coming off of one side of the car (the driver's side) and not the other. 

I suspect, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, that the corrosion and resultant paint bubbling on the triangular metal piece (which, on my car, is only a problem on the passenger side) is the result of electrolytic corrosion (dissimilar metals contacting each other). 

Eventually, I'll get around to having these parts repainted. I really can't bring myself to ask for warranty coverage or any other form of "goodwill" on a 9 year old car, unless of course the corrosion on the little triangular metal piece progresses to the point of perforation, which is explicitly covered under the corrosion warranty - which, in North America, I believe is either 10 years or 12 years duration, I'm not sure which. 

Michael


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

This is the type of corrosion that can occur to aluminum door skins on pretty much any brand of car that uses this metal. 

They check if the car is 'respectable', ie properly serviced by a main dealer and with normal mileage, and that an ultrasonic paint thickness test shows that it hasn't had body damage that's been 'repaired' in an unapproved way. 

If it passes, it is typically repaired under the manufacturer's N-year body perforation warranty while it is still in this state, that is, non-perforated. This is because it is pretty clear that perforation will occur sooner or later, and most cars with aluminium skin work are premium brand showpieces. 

I believe it happens when the complete electrical barrier between the aluminium and most other metals breaks down and contact occurs somewhere. The manufacturer's tight repair procedures specify exactly which materials and treatments must be applied. But it's up to the body shop to comply with them which increases costs, so I guess might be skimped, so the problem happens again. 

Here, road salt is probably the major cause of this electrolytic action. The approved body shop that worked on my car doors said they preferred to change the door completely, since it was less work than prepping a damaged one and the complex internals have to be stripped out and put back in any case. But this isn't always authorised. 

Chris 


_Typical bubbling when dissimilar metals touch or get an electrolyte between them_


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Mine's got this problem on the shiny black panel just aft of the rear passenger window. The panel isn't horrendously expensive, but apparently requires the dismantling of the rear door, which is. The dealer says the Fidelity warranty won't cover it, but when he (hopefully) calls me today (this is the fourth week I've been without the car) I'll be pressing him again with regards to the VW corrosion warranty, especially since mine rarely sees rain.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> Mine's got this problem on the shiny black panel just aft of the rear passenger window... The dealer says the Fidelity warranty won't cover it...


 You don't have to even bother with the extended (Fidelity) warranty. The problem of corrosion on those shiny black B and (forward of) C pillar trim strips is well known, and VW of America has put out a technical bulletin addressing it. The gist of the TB is that if corrosion is found on any one of these strips, then all 6 should be replaced. 

Further discussion about this subject, and the TB itself, can be found at this link: TB 66-06-02 (NAR) or Campaign 66C4 (ROW) - Exterior Pillar Trim Corrosion on Phaeton Doors. 

Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks Michael.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Glad I could help. I had that campaign done on my car. As I mentioned, the campaign calls for all 6 parts to be replaced. I only had problems with 2, and as a courtesy to my VW dealer, I told them to not bother replacing the other 4, to just give me the 4 extra parts and I would bring them back in the future if any further problems developed. 

6 years later, there have been no further problems with the 4 that were not replaced. 

The root cause of the corrosion problem on those window trim parts was inappropriate application of the primer coating on the part by the supplier who did the first production run way, way back in 2003. It was not a VW error _per se_, but a supplier quality control error. 

Anyway, if you print that TB out and give it to your VW dealer, that should make it quite easy for them to replace the affected parts for you. It will take all the pressure off the dealership to ask the regional office for goodwill credits, etc., because those TBs come out of Germany. 

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

For the benefit of forum members in the Rest of the World (ROW, as VW of America calls it, meaning anywhere outside of North America), here is the campaign document that mandates replacement of these trim pillar parts. There are several unrelated items in this particular campaign, the trim pillar parts are either criteria 1 (SWB) or criteria 2 (LWB). 

Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I've just spoken with the dealer about this and he says that despite the TB/campaign, the work would have to be approved by the VW rep who visits once a month. After having re-read the campaign documentation, and checked the VIN, I'm going to call him back.....


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> ...the dealer ... says that despite the TB/campaign, the work would have to be approved by the VW rep who visits once a month.


 
To me, that's entirely understandable, given the age and rarity of the car. I'm pretty sure that you can leave the matter with the dealer, and the rep will likely approve the work to be done once he/she has a chance to review the bulletin. 

I'm not sure how things work in the USA, but in Canada, different dealers are given varying amounts of autonomy based on the level of training of the service department staff and the warranty claims history of the individual dealership. For example, my home dealer has a great deal of autonomy and can approve just about anything at the dealership level (this a result of being a sole-brand VW dealer for over 50 years, now in the third generation of the same family). But, a new dealership or perhaps a multi-line dealership that submits a higher than average rate of warranty claim work might be subject to a bit more scrutiny. 

In other words - I don't think 'you' or 'your car' has a lot to do with the dealer's requirement to have the request reviewed and approved by the regional service rep. 

Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yeah, I've got no great problem with the rep having to approve it, what I mind is the amount of effort it takes to get the dealer to actually do something. His original response was to suggest I just paint it myself. After four more conversations about it, he finally came up with the rep suggestion, and I emailed the campaign document to him.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I don't think some of the dealers have quite grasped the concept that an owner wouldn't always choose the cheap quick fix option on a Phaeton, like they might on a Polo... 

Although others will suggest an engine removal at the drop of a hat. 

Thank heavens for this Forum. 

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Indeed. If it hadn't been for Michael, I wouldn't have had a clue. I suspect Phaeton owners might also be more persistent than average.....


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Dealer still says he can't do anything since the campaign document is Canadian and in the US there was only a TB.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Skiing holiday in Canada?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Not a bad idea! I've also just discovered bubbling on the piece by the driver side mirror.


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