# MegaSquirt assembly. Some questions along the line.



## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Well, I got started with MegaSquirt.



























Now, the little question:
I'm not thinking of using an idle valve.
I have one in the Drive by Cable TB, but from my knowledge, it cannot be used with MegaSquirt.
So, I'll just the idle manually. Cold start idle will be a pain, but this is a toy car, so not really an issue.
*This means that I can skip step 22, right? *From: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm

I did skip this so far, and I was able to test the MS assembled so far, using step 23. All good, and 4.999V was seen in the specified pins! All good!!


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Or you can install it and just not use it.:thumbup: Come to think of it, skip it and use the 4 wires to output other functions like fan control or the input for Launch Control.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

VW's rarely use steppers for idle, so I never install those (exact) jumpers. If you're using MS2 on extra code you can use JS0 and JS2 as generic outputs direct to spare pins to do.. well, whatever.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Well, I don't have any idea of what I'll want or need as spare.
I know I want to use COP's, wasted spark, control boost, and not much more, I guess. But if I can have this controling some more stuff, I'm into it!

I believe the best is to assemble everything first, and then, when the time comes, I'll do all the extra configs I need.

Regarding the code, I think I'll use extra, for the cops and all, but at this moment I have nothing prepared!
Thanks for the help!


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Another update.
Step 41/80. Not bad! :laugh:


















HyperTerm test. Step 26.
http://www.youtube.com/hidromail#p/u/0/Y9_MM62WIBo

Boot loader. Step 40.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmJwd_Wtz88

Megatune test. Step 41.









Looking good!!! :laugh:

Question.
I bought the 4MAP sensor, so should I install the 3 MAP sensor?
Or skip that step? step 53.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Put the 4bar right in, unsoldering them sucks. Your map will read 66 until you change the sensor cal.

I finished another one this morning before work.. they get quicker with practice!


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Ok, so I'll solder the 4bar MAP sensor instead of the 3bar one.
Thanks!

And, I know I'm taking ages compared to some of you guys that do this day in, day out, but still enjoy it a lot! eheheh:laugh:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Don't feel bad I think my first one took me a month... and it had half the parts!


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

I will only feel bad, if I fahook something up. Other than that, I feel I'm learing (doing some stupid questions, I know) so it's all positive!!:laugh:


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Little update:
Didn't have much time today, so I got to step 51 and half :laugh:


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## vdubobsession (Apr 26, 2006)

nice thread, seeing it step by step makes it a little less intimidating for me. I've been on the fence as to whether i wanted to build my own or not.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

I would say that if you have a little skill on soldering, and the right gear, do it!


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

No pics, as the development is slow, but there is a video! 

Testing the RPM, IAT, MAT, O2, TPS 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFJaKwVyT2E


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Almost done now.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You going to use MS1 or MS2/3? If MS1 you need to use VRoutINV for the stock crank sensor jumper. 

Also if you're driving a coil direct using Q16 delete R43 and install a jumper if you don't plan to scope for dwell. 

Idle valve... you using one? If so you need to remove/not install Q4, Q20, D8 and jumper R39.. and install a TIP120-22 as per the manual.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

> You going to use MS1 or MS2/3? If MS1 you need to use VRoutINV for the stock crank sensor jumper.


 I'll be using MS2 and MSExtra. 



> Also if you're driving a coil direct using Q16 delete R43 and install a jumper if you don't plan to scope for dwell.


 I'll be using COP Wasted Spark setup, with 4 BIP's. 



> Idle valve... you using one? If so you need to remove/not install Q4, Q20, D8 and jumper R39.. and install a TIP120-22 as per the manual.


 Will manually mod the TB to idle at a specific RPM (it will be a bit hard in cold starts, but nothing major, I would say. 
Like this: 
Quantum Performance Engineering - Conversion Guide: 
http://www.qpeng.com/conversion_guide_7.html 
Step 26. 

Not sure I answered those topics correctly, but please keep the info coming, and I'll reply the best I can/know!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Ok you're good to go, just follow the manuals for the COP mods. 

Interesting trick with the idle motor. MS2 might be able to control that though, I had an OBD2 ABA tb working with it on the bench in open loop.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Ok you're good to go, just follow the manuals for the COP mods.
> 
> Interesting trick with the idle motor. MS2 might be able to control that though, I had an OBD2 ABA tb working with it on the bench in open loop.


 Just curiuos Paul..... were you PWMing it or stepper motor. 'cause I_think_ it is a 2 wire stepper... at least the bently manual sort of says that's how it works.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Well, how can I understand what type of idle valve is that, and how can I know if I'm able to control it?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

PWM control. It can't be a stepper, it would have to have at least two sets of poles (4 wire) min, if not more.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

I think it does have 4 wires minimum. 
Here you can see a TB that is just like mine (the one on the left, drive by cable): 

http://yfrog.com/f/1qadmission013j/ 

So is this controllable by MS? If so, too much work to do? Or it's just better to set the idle the way I showed in that link? 
Remind you that this is a toy car, so I will not be upset with the low idle, etc :laugh:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I can't get the picture to show up, is it an 8pin connector?


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

I don't know why, but that pic became unavailable. 
So I uploaded another. The pinout should be like the one on the bottow.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Pin1/2 are the idle air motor on those, hit it with a 9v battery the plate will snap open.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

If that is so, it should be easy to work with in MS? Or not really? 
I'm not sure I'll have enough "slots" to run all I want. 
COPS, Boost, knock (later), tacho... 
Will this idle valve be PWM or 2 step or what is it?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I have bench tested it with MS1 and a freq multiplier board, and it worked well in open loop. It should be workable on MS2 with the higher available drive frequencies. It will only consume one pin, Fidle.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

So, this is something maybe I can take the time to make work?
Or it's not "out of the box" doable?
I'm still in the early stages, so I'm not that confident to do some kind of stuff.
Will it be "set idle to 900 RPM" and it will do it, or? I'm asking this due to the frequencie multipler, etc you are mentioning.

Thanks a lot for the help! :thumbup:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You need to install this mod:

http://msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Hardware_Manual.htm#Fidle

I use a TIP120, plenty for the OBD1 idle valve, you might even be able to do the ZTX650 but I've never tried it.

You will be able to at the very least run with 'warmup only' mode with a cold and hot duty cycle to the idle valve to maintain a more stable idle. You will want the frequency set around 200-300hz.

Closed loop (set @ 900,etc) it might be possible but I'm not sure.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

may as well hook up the output for the real time baro correction since youve got the 4bar map in there anyway :beer:

looks like youre comin along! they definitely do get quicker with practice


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

So I need to do some changes in order to use the baro correction?
I think It was working now, in Megatune or Tunerstudio. It would detect something, if I'm not mistaken of course.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

the ability to read up to 4bar happens as soon as you recalibrate it... but in order for the real time baro to work, you have to run a line from the corner of the map sensor, to one of the js-something (forget which one now...) holes under the processor - DIY covers all this on their site of course :beer:


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

AHHHHH; good that you saw that!!
I thought that the wire and capacitor were for the MS-I, but it looks like the wire is for both MS-I and MS-II and only the capacitor for the MS-I!

Thank you!:beer:


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

need_a_VR6 said:


> You need to install this mod:
> 
> http://msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Hardware_Manual.htm#Fidle
> 
> ...


I've been reading about this now, and it looks like a good option.
I've seen the Closed-loop idle target rpms and it does seem like what I would need. Now, the issue is that I don't really know if this would cause me more issues to get it running in the first place. I think I might try to get it running first, and afterwards, I'll get that idle valve to work.

But thanks for the input on this, as I would have been left out in the blank!
Cheers!


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

HidRo said:


> AHHHHH; good that you saw that!!
> I thought that the wire and capacitor were for the MS-I, but it looks like the wire is for both MS-I and MS-II and only the capacitor for the MS-I!


you got it :thumbup:


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

The base MSII is built!
I tested the last step, and I am not sure if everything is working correctly...
I coulnd't get the WUE led to go off... But other than that, looks ok!


















Just have to build the:
- BIP's for the COP's
- Boost controller
- Tacho out

Guess I'm getting there!:laugh:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Well it depends on what that LED is set to, it might not be for 'warmup' once you're off B&G base code. Check to see what it's set to in software before you fret, and just make sure the temp gauge is sweeping when you change the pot.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Temp gauge is going from negative to 140c, so it's good.

I'm using the MSExtra 3.0.3u (the latest radics1 advised me to run) so not sure what the led is set to.
Will try to check it!


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Just tested again, but not good news, I guess...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pufYoyojwU

I changed the WUE to be at 90%, when over 80c, and when changing to a value that will set WUE to under 100% (it should be off) it does not change the led.
Another thing is that the FIDLE from the STIM does not go out. I think it has before...

I tried to check under TunerStudio to see what is using D15 or something, but nothing. Can't find anything.
And D14 and D16 blink side by side, as you can see on the clip.

Any input is welcome!
Thanks!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

For WUE 100% is off and anything over that is fuel adding, under 100% is removing fuel. Generally my lowest value is 100. 

For TS check under Extended - Output Ports - PM4 Accel LED and see if it's green and there are any settings attached to it.

For FIDLE check under Startup/Idle under Idle Control and see how it's set up.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your input.
The FIDLE, I got it. Not sure what I have, or anything in there, but changed some stuff, and it worked, so the led is now shut.

But the WUE, is another story...
I have set it again to 100% after 80c, and still it has the led on.

You can see it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSE3TSIDHIM
You can see the coolant higher than the value to set 100%, so, it should be off. Also, the WUE section is not GREEN indicating that is off, so the led should be off as well, I guess

In TS under Extended - Output Ports, I have no green lights, so it's not set to flash for any other change.
How can I create a "change" so the led is turned off?
Could this be some kind of short in assembly?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I see what you mean, you might have a short. Check the underside of the transistor, they're VERY easy to solder together accidentally. A good test is remove one end of R27, if it's still lit, you have a short between the center pin and one of the other two.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

I will try this tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll be doing the tacho out circuit, and possibly the COP's and boost as well! 
Getting this all wrapped up I guess:laugh:

I bought the DB15 to get the COP's output nice and neat. The grounds that are mentioned to be used with the DB15 are the grounds from the COP's? If so, where should they be connected?
Can I get one wire (after connecting all the grounds) to the pin where the stock ECU had a ground?

Thank you for your help once again Paul :thumbup:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

It depends, what coils are you using?


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

The VW ones without ignitors in them, so will have to run 4 BIP's.
Or will the grounds for the BIP's be the one in MS board?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

With 4 BIP's I'd definitely use at least one pin for every two BIPs, but if you're adding a connector, just give them all separate ground pins. Then just tie them to your main ground, you can pair them up and use larger gauge wire if you'd like.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Well, I'm reading all the time on this, and I found some info on the DIYAutoTune page, saying that the grounds could be R37 and R38, and this wouldn't create noise as if the ground in the proto area was used.
So, instead of using ground wires through the DB15 connector, it would be all set inside the MS.
What would you recommend?


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Little update.

Tacho out circuit done, with the gray wire.


























The others are already started, but yet to be done.

D15 is now doing what it should (OFF when WUE is 100%). It was a little solder bridge on the small as hair transistor Q7.
All good now!

So, on the coil on plug circuit, it's best to ground the BIP's to R37 and R38 or to get a wire to a ground outside MS?


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

nice work.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

HidRo said:


> So, on the coil on plug circuit, it's best to ground the BIP's to R37 and R38 or to get a wire to a ground outside MS?


With one or two BIPs you might be able to ground them to the ground leg of R37 and R38.. but remember the ground for the BIP carries all the coil current through it. If it were a unit I was building for a customer I'd probably ground them all to the R43 jumper and then run a jumper to both the DB ground pin plane (1/2, 8-19) and on additional unused pin like IGN.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Sorry for all the n00bish questions Paul...

I do not have a jumper in R43. I have a Resistor there. The big fat one. Shown here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/golfgti16v/MegaSquirt/MegaSquirt10.jpg
Maybe it shouldn't be there in the first place?

If that resistor is to be used, then where should I solder all the grounds to? Which leg?
If it's not supposed to be there, to what hole should it be soldered?
After this, just jumper (from the bottom) to a known ground in DB37 (from the diagram in MegaManual, pins available will be 8, 9, 10 and 11 or 18 and 19 for sensor ground.)

Is this it?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Unless you're going to use a scope to set the dwell, get rid of R43 and install a jumper. 

Yes, but all the MS ground pins are connected, it doesn't matter which one you jumper to, just add an extra ground wire for every BIP you're using.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Ok, so if I'm understanding this correctly, I can remove the R43, get a wire in that location, connect the 4 ground wires from the bips to either hole (maybe 2 wires to each hole) and on the other side, just add 4 wires to 4 different ground pins, like 8, 9, 10 and 11.

Thanks for the info Paul!! Appreciate all your help! :beer::beer:

BTW, reading MS-EXTRA manual:
MS-Extra V3.0 Build Manual: 
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/build_manual.htm

I see that I need to do the Step 25)
25) MS2 ONLY (MS1 jump to Step 26) 
Solder a wire between s12c and JS9, this feeds the stepper motor driver on the MS2 daughter board. Even if you’re not going to use a stepper idle valve, it is needed to use the outputs for other items, 
like tacho, etc, so you might as well fit it now. DON’T FIT THIS LINK IF YOUR USING AN MS1 (black 40 pinned microprocessor)!! You will blow it up!

I haven't done so yet, so should I do it? JS9 to S12c?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Easy question first: MS2/3 JS9 to S12c is totally fine, just DO NOT USE AN MS1 processor without removing that jumper first.

For R43 just use a clipped resistor/diode lead and that way you can just solder them wherever onto it. Then just jumper from the bottom of that to any MS ground pin (or two) on the bottom. Then just make sure you're using a few extra ground conductors to carry the current.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Easy question first: MS2/3 JS9 to S12c is totally fine, just DO NOT USE AN MS1 processor without removing that jumper first.
> 
> For R43 just use a clipped resistor/diode lead and that way you can just solder them wherever onto it. Then just jumper from the bottom of that to any MS ground pin (or two) on the bottom. *Then just make sure you're using a few extra ground conductors to carry the current*.



I'm just not sure that I completelly understood that bold part. (The language barried can sometimes cause some misunderstandings).

Not sure I need to do something extra, to carry the current, or if by doing what was described, I'll have the current carrier that I need.
I will not use an MS1, so that jumper will be in place next time I'm around the board 

EDIT:
After a good night sleep, I believe I got it... Hopefully, what you are saying with the extra carriers is the extra wire per BIP from the R43 bottom to the grounds on DB37.:banghead:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

So if your MS harness only has 3-4 ground wires on it (some have lots, some have few, depends where you bought it or how you made it), add 4 more to carry the current for the BIPs.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Oh!!!!
I see!
My kit came from DIYAutoTune:
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/1239-megasquirt-wiring-harness-ms1-ms2-ms3-ready-p-43.html
So, I would say 5 grounds from the table in that link (+ there is a GND/Shield that I don't know if it counts and a sensor ground)


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

That's not a lot, I'd add a few more.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

I will do it then!
Will select some of the empty pins, and get some grounds going through there.

So, on the DB15 will only pass the Spark output, and grounds to the DB37.
I think I pretty much have it covered.
THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR HELP Paul!! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

If you're using a DB15 you can always put the grounds there instead forgot about that... the DIY harness uses crimp/push lock connectors that you might not be able to get or have the tool for.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

OK!!
So, ground directly to the DB15, instead of going to the R43 jumper, right?
Not going to be able to do anything today, so, not in a hurry


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

That'll be the easiest thing with that harness probably.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

So, I decided to do a change on the Tacho Out, and instead of using SPR3, I decided to use IAC2A as it's already in the harness, and I'll not use the stepper idle.









Then I created the Boost Control mod like this:









But it felt wrong, due the huge cables, and since I'll have to use the BIP's on the lid so I changed to this:









Started the BIP's mod, and I belive my solder is nasty...









Does this look correct to you?
Isn't this fragile? The resistor leg will move from one side to the other easy, won't they break?
Cheers!


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Did another bit of the COP circuit:


























As my gearbox had a bad digestion, I can't get this in the car, so no hurry


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Usually when I come off those resistors I will anchor them down on the proto area. At the very least pot them in silicone of some kind, hot glue will work in a pinch.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Hi Paul,

You solder them in the proto area? Not sure I'm following you.
I was thikning of getting hot glue on the wires, where that tape is. Is that what you are saying?


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

:thumbup: whats the hFE of that transistor? lol j/k nice work.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Are you making fun of that old as I am transistor?:laugh::laugh:
That's what my dad say it was :thumbup::beer: Old as me.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

On this pic where you have the wire soldered to the two 660's, I would have landed that on the proto area first to anchor it, then soldered the wire from there to the BIPs.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Oh!!
But that pic was a before pic.
I then did a change on that.

So, I did a little bridge, with a resistor sniped leg (I hope I'm saying this correctly) to the proto area and the R's.
Soldered the wire there (you can see it's just one, instead of 2).
The 330ohm resistors are soldered to the bips directly.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Gotcha, that way should work well.


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

I hope it does :laugh:


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

Today, I finished my Megasquirt.
Was just missing the BIP's circuit, to connect to a DB15.
Last pictures:


























Now, just have to install it in the car :laugh:


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

great work


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