# Opinions on purchasing an early RS6



## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Really thinking about getting an Audi but if I decide to trade in the GLI for one it needs to be something with one hell of a motor. Perfect reason why I'm looking at the C5 RS6's (not quite sure why they aren't listed in this forum.) I'm not looking to spend a fortune for one. Which leads me to looking at a couple of 03's. They run around $20k with a little over 100k miles on them. My GLI has around 95k on it right now and I can probably get a trade in value of around $9k. With all that said do you think getting such a high mileage Audi is worth the trade. I have no experience with Audi's, their motors (except the 1.8t's) or their transmissions. It's obviously a huge upgrade but if I'm going to have motor / tranny problems down the road I'll just trade the GLI in for something newer like a GTI.


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## Mr. Rictus (Sep 25, 2004)

The RS6 will put a huge smile on your face every time you drive it... But it will open your wallet and take everything in it every time you drive it as well. 

They are heavy on maintenance.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Mr. Rictus said:


> The RS6 will put a huge smile on your face every time you drive it... But it will open your wallet and take everything in it every time you drive it as well.
> 
> They are heavy on maintenance.


Maintenance I can handle myself however what sort of maintenance are we talking about. What are the major flaws and/or things that need done. I know for the 1.8t the major thing was the timing belt getting replaced on a regular schedule which was somewhat costly even to do by myself because of parts.


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## Mr. Rictus (Sep 25, 2004)

travis_gli said:


> Maintenance I can handle myself however what sort of maintenance are we talking about. What are the major flaws and/or things that need done. I know for the 1.8t the major thing was the timing belt getting replaced on a regular schedule which was somewhat costly even to do by myself because of parts.


Timing belt service every 40-50k, which is nowhere near as easy as on a 1.8T

Suspension issues from the self-levelling system (I think that's it)

Torque converter issues

Transmission issues

There are 2 turbos on the car, so twice as much overall maintenance there


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## mithril (Feb 6, 2003)

Mr. Rictus said:


> Suspension issues from the self-levelling system (I think that's it)


Don't think DRC is considered a self-levelling suspension, the AllRoad's air suspension is self-levelling. DRC is an automatic dampening adjustment suspension that firms itself up by transferring oil as required to dampers to counter act body roll and pitch under hard maneuvers. Both the air suspension and DRC used on the C5's were version 1.0 introductions so you're right that both are considered points of failure on their respective vehicles.


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## mithril (Feb 6, 2003)

travis_gli said:


> _*I'm not looking to spend a fortune for one*_. Which leads me to looking at a couple of 03's.


Firstly the RS6 was only produced in 2003 and secondly something tells me this may not be the car for you.



travis_gli said:


> Maintenance I can handle myself however what sort of maintenance are we talking about. What are the major flaws and/or things that need done. I know for the 1.8t the major thing was the timing belt getting replaced on a regular schedule which was somewhat costly even to do by myself because of parts.


Don't take this the wrong way, but if you think the timing belt on a 1.8T powered VW is "somewhat costly" then the RS6 is definitely not the car for you. There is a _significant_ difference in maintenance costs between a trim spec upgraded economy car like the GLI and a $100K supercar like the RS6. The big thing that people forget when looking at older luxury and supercars is that while depreciation may have moved the purchase price down into the range that a lot of people can afford, maintenance costs either stay the same or increase. The question you really need to ask yourself is: "On any given day of the week can I pull a couple thousand dollar bills out of my wallet and, just for fun, set them on fire?" If you answered yes then RS6 ownership may be a realistic proposition, if not walk away now.

To help put it in perspective, almost EVERY maintenance or repair procedure begins like this: 1. Remove engine.

You can expect to spend at least the purchase price again in the first year on maintenance and then thousands more every year after that (assuming nothing breaks). Hell, your yearly fuel bill for an RS6 will probably to be pretty close to your GLI's trade in value. The timing belt needs to be done every 50K miles at a cost of at least $1500 at a shop. Front control arms usually need to be done every 60K or so, that's $1200 _per side_ The front rotors and pads $1100 in parts (OEM), they need to be changed every year so or. The front sways need to be removed to change the oil. The DRC suspension is a known point of failure that is wickedly expensive, even by RS6 standards, to replace or repair (most people just replace with coils when it dies). The transmission has the same problems as the 4.2L and S6, too much power and torque. Rebuilds for a 4.2L tranny are in the range of $4000, the RS6 will be much more than that. Do the torque converter at the same time since dropping a 300lb transmission that's bigger than your GLI's engine isn't a lot of fun. Etc etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to intentionally be an arse here or anything. The RS6 is an amazing car, unbelievably fast and fun to drive. It also requires A LOT of maintenance and a very fat wallet that doesn't really have a budget to constrain it to keep it running. If you're dead set on getting an RS6 then spend more than $20K, find the absolute best example you can, enjoy the hell out of it for a year, then sell it before it bankrupts you and move on to a more sensible car.



travis_gli said:


> Really thinking about getting an Audi but if I decide to trade in the GLI for one it needs to be something with one hell of a motor.


And the only one that came to mind was the RS6, the most powerful production car Audi built prior to 2007? That's not an upgrade, the GLI doesn't even enter the same conversation. If you want a mod'ing platform** Look at a 2.7T w/ 6MT . Very easy upgrades will bring that engine to 500+awhp. The sedan gives you style, the AllRoad gives you the sleeper look of a wagon. 

If you want something that is great out of of the box w/o needing modification look at the 4.2L, lots of power and the same widebody styling as the RS6. RS6 side skirts and bumpers are a direct swap so you can easily get the more aggressive look if that's your thing. Swap in a 6MT, upgrade the suspension and sways and you've got a car that can keep up with every S car AND had enough room to comfortably transport four 6'+ adults.

**FYI, despite being forced induction there are very few mod's available for the RS6. Far too rare of a car for there to be a mass market for aftermarket bolt on's and the tranny is already at the limit of it's power handling from the factory.


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## Mr. Rictus (Sep 25, 2004)

Much better said than I!

Excellent points, mithril. :thumbup:

(I still want to put an RS6 motor into my S6.)


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## mithril (Feb 6, 2003)

I'd love to drop an 4.2TT into my 4.2L, hell I'd love to just buy an RS6 full out. Barring a lottery win that's just not realistic for me. Something like an RS6 is not a car that you can skip or skimp out on when it comes to maintenance. If you try it will get REALLY expensive really quickly as stuff starts to break.

OP, this is the RS6 maintenance schedule. Basically there is a major maintenance scheduled every 20,000miles: https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/...nceSchedules-AudiMY2003RS6MaintenanceSchedule


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

mithril, I appreciate all of the input. I felt slightly talked down on just because I own a GLI but that's alright and I guess its somewhat expected however please understand the '05 GLI's are more than just a trim upgrade from VW's other sedans. I've been around various high HP applications and driven a handful as well for extended periods of time so it's not a matter of not being able to handle the power increase. Trust me you can learn to drive anything. Again I appreciate everything you said and it has affected my decision. I never realized that it could cost so much just in maintenance. Hell I could build a Mustang up for the price of a used RS6, get near the amount of power output and still not have to worry about those sort of maintenance costs. Obviously the only reason that I'm not doing that is because I would like to stick with VW/Audi. If you suggest I look into the 4.2's then so be it. I'll see what I can find. :thumbup:


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

mithril said:


> The question you really need to ask yourself is: "On any given day of the week can I pull a couple thousand dollar bills out of my wallet and, just for fun, set them on fire?" If you answered yes then RS6 ownership may be a realistic proposition, if not walk away now.


:laugh: Spot on! :thumbup:


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## mithril (Feb 6, 2003)

travis_gli said:


> I felt slightly talked down on just because I own a GLI but that's alright and I guess its somewhat expected however please understand the '05 GLI's are more than just a trim upgrade from VW's other sedans.


It certainly wasn't meant to sound like a talking down or to come across a condescending, nor a slight against the GLI... but really yes the GLI is just a trim upgrade to the standard Jetta. Saying other wise is like trying to argue the R32 is anything more than a Golf with some bolt-on parts from the Audi TT. They're really nice cars, but they are just Jetta's and Golf's with a higher price tags. They don't carry any additional maintenance or operational costs and are quite cheap to own and operate, as they should be given the fact that Jetta and Golf are intended to be econo-boxes.

I also wasn't trying to imply that you haven't or can't drive a high power vehicle. My point was specifically to the fact that your post implied that, like most people, you have a budget when it comes to your vehicle(s) and you're looking for a deal. The RS6 is not a vehicle for that kind of owner, the RS6 ownership is really for people that can afford to buy it without having to give an consideration to the cost of ownership and maintenance. Like I said above, I don't qualify in that group which is why I don't own an RS6.

The 4.2L is a great car, I love mine. Bomb poof engine (if maintained properly) with lots of power and a brilliant highway cruiser. The only real weak points are the control arms (same cost as the RS6 and S6 on this job), the transmission and the typical Audi oil leaks. If the oil leaks are proactively addressed they aren't major issues. I usually top my oil up once between changes, that happened to be this week and in the 5,500 km I've driven since August it went through less than 1L of oil. The oil on the dipstick was also exactly the same colour as it was when it came out of the bottle.

My only complaint about the car is the fuel economy. I knew it was poor but didn't realize just how bad it would be given the in town short trip stop and go that makes up 100% of my daily driving. Let's just say I when I pull up to an H2 Hummer I sometimes think to myself that it actually look economical" :laugh:

That said, if anything goes wrong on these cars they get really expensive really quick. Unlike the A4 there is no crossover with VW parts on the A6 and A8 so the parts are much more and effectively you do need to remove the engine to do anything other than the timing belt and valve gaskets.


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## LED Zeppelin (Dec 27, 2011)

mithril, you are spot-on.

I went through the exact thought process of the OP last month after my A4 1.8T was totalled. I saw an RS6 for $13K and the gears started spinning. But after researching the RS6 I stayed away and ended up getting an '03 S6 (with 127k well-maintained miles). I'm very happy with the creature comforts, level of engineering (except the cupholders and armrest lid), performance, style, and power. But even with a light foot and mixed hwy/cty driving I manage only 15 mpg. With premium it makes a huge change in monthly fuel costs, but one that I feel is justified by the sweetness of the ride. The S6 is still expensive to maintain ($80 DIY oil changes), but a far cry from what an RS6 demands. The threads I read about the RS6 cost of ownership all had the same effect - gasp.

OP, if the RS6 is a second car for play, it's well worth it. But if it's a daily driver do yourself a huge favor and don't get one. You might also consider an S4; $20K would get you a very nice one.


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## mywagonproject (Nov 12, 2011)

IIRC, there was a member on audizine who had a C5 RS6 not too long ago and posted up what one year of driving cost him in maintenance, $25k. This is including, timing belt service/brakes/control arms/trans maint/fluid changes. If you can drop that kind of coin on your car I say go for it.

I too have a 4.2L C5, love the car every day. In the 2 years I've owned it, besides oil changes, I've only dropped $2500 in maintenance (mainly dealing with a cat code). Good power, moves the car very nicely, I had mine dyno'd with a CEL and still put down 240awhp. MPG isn't the greatest, I average 18-20mpg with mixed city/hwy driving. But the smile it puts on my face when I step on it is worth every penny.

Do you see yourself modding the car? If you like to change a lot around, and look for more power easily, I would suggest the 2.7t. There are a ton of aftermarket companies making products for these engines. And the 2.7 A6 also had a 6mt option. The 4.2 is a great engine, with some modifications can increase power somewhat, unless you go FI. There are a couple of guys running S8 heads/intake with intake spacers and gaining a decent amount of power (no dyno results as of yet, butt dyno only). And the aftermarket is slowly catching up for these engines. If you don't care about power more look, then there's the 2.8/3.0. Very much like the VW counterparts, not a whole lot of aftermarket for them. But from what I hear, they get the best mpg of the platform.

IMO, the C5 is one of the best looking platforms that Audi has produced. It's sporty looking, yet practical for daily use. There are a few up for sale over at az.com If you are interested in the C5, head on over to audizine and check out the forum. It's a lot more active over there with a ton of information and build threads. We're also one of the more polite sections out there.

Oh and if you're still toying around with the idea of an rs6, head on over to the forums at rs6.com and do some searching on maintenance. :wave:


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

I appreciate all the input. I'm definitely looking for more power and it's go big or go home at this point. What I really want is something I can put little money into and get alot out of. Perfect example against this is my 1.8T. You can dump thousands into it all day long and end up with 350 some odd HP. That's not how I want my next car. I want something that already has some good power from the factory and with little money for such things as tuning and bolt ons you can get some good numbers out of it. Which leads me into thinking the 4.2L is the best bet. Gas isn't a thing of my concerns. I drive 10 miles to work one way and depending if I have to go out to a client or not there may be some extra mileage in there however it is reimbursed.


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## mithril (Feb 6, 2003)

You would probably do better with a 2.7T then as there's really no modding market for the 4.2L. Too few produced + natural aspiration and a non-boost intended engine means there's almost no development. Not too mention that the 4.2L used in the C5 is different from the B6/B7 and C6 so aftermarket parts for those models don't crossover. About the only real upgrades for the C5 4.2L are the air box and intake manifold from either the S6 or the S8 and your returns there are quite small, 40 - 50 hp if you're lucky.

The 4.2L is basically a luxo-barge with some sporting pretentions. 300hp from factory means it can move but it's 4100lbs means it's not really a "fast" car, you find you're more likely to look down at the speedo be surprised at how fast you're going than feel yourself be pushed into the seatback from acceleration. The 2.7T can easily be bumped from 250hp to over 500hp with just bolt on parts and software for about $8000 - $10000.


Just for ****s and giggles, here's the maintanence cost thread at rs6.com: http://www.rs6.com/showthread.php/21583-Some-service-costs?highlight=diy



> Replace HVAC blower motor...$412.27*
> Alignment....$109.95*
> Replace N80 valve....$326.17
> Replace Torque Converter....$5112.15
> ...


* these items will have the same cost on the 4.2L and S6, gotta love having to pull the engine for most services


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## mywagonproject (Nov 12, 2011)

I agree with mithril, if you're looking for big power from an A6, go 2.7. It's a lot easier to get power out of them than the n/a v8.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

Again I appreciate all the input and I'll check out the 2.7T's :thumbup:

How hard is it going to be to find a 5 / 6 speed?


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## mywagonproject (Nov 12, 2011)

You may have to search a lil, but shouldn't be too hard to find a mt 2.7.


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## Redneck Truck (Jun 10, 2009)

travis_gli said:


> How hard is it going to be to find a 5 / 6 speed?


If you're happy with 340 easily accessible hp right out of the box rather than modding to reach it, you could always buy a 6-speed A6 4.2L that has had the S6 upgrades and tuning and all the above-mentioned maintenance. I couldn't find one, so I built one, and I couldn't be happier.


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm not quite ready for the purchase however I'm glad I posted on here first before seriously looking into buying. I would love the 4.2 however I'm certain I want something that was turbo'd from the factory. I would hate to move away from a force induced application like my 1.8t. It's much more easy to start with a motor designed for forced induction from the factory than something naturally aspirated. I don't have anything against large naturally aspirated motors but they can be major gas hogs in regards to performance which cuts back on wanting it for a daily driver.


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## mywagonproject (Nov 12, 2011)

I know you're not looking at the moment but just a couple of examples of 2.7's f/s

sedan in NY with 6sp (with K04 upgrade)
http://www.audizine.com/classifieds...2-7t-quattro-6-speed-manual-k04-turbos&cat=71

allroad with tip in CO (with K04 upgrade)
http://www.audizine.com/classifieds...01&title=2004-k04-allroad-2c-73k-miles&cat=71

Just 2 I saw on audizine, there are also a couple of 4.2's and an rs6 on there as well.


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## mywagonproject (Nov 12, 2011)

Or if you can bite the bullet now, 2.7 with tip. Not sure why the price is so low, but seems like he's looking for a fast sell.

http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=63460&title=2001-audi-a6-2-7t&cat=71


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## travis_gli (Jan 31, 2008)

mywagonproject said:


> Or if you can bite the bullet now, 2.7 with tip. Not sure why the price is so low, but seems like he's looking for a fast sell.
> 
> http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=63460&title=2001-audi-a6-2-7t&cat=71


http://www.audizine.com/classifieds...2-7t-quattro-6-speed-manual-k04-turbos&cat=71

Really makes me want to apply for a small loan.


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## mywagonproject (Nov 12, 2011)

That is a good looking car. Looks like he also has the RNS-E installed as well. I'm a sucker for that 2-tone interior, knew a guy who had a black 4.2 with the black and tan interior, so sexy. I don't see him post a lot over there, so I don't know much about the car. 

If you want to drool over a car, look up vinchenzo over at az........mmmmmmmmmmmm one of the cleanest A6's I've seen.


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## mywagonproject (Nov 12, 2011)

On second thought, I'll just leave these here for inspiration, btw '04 2.7 s-line (Vin's car)


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## StantonGTI (Dec 11, 2002)

Seems you have made up your mind, but just to add a little more. Two years ago I had the opportunity to buy an 02 S6 with 80k miles for $4k. An insanley good deal. At the time I had an 02 GTI.

I of course went for it, knowing what I was getting into. My mechanic had also been maintaining the S6 and I knew the seller, so I knew the history of the car. The first thing the mechanic said to me was that the S stands for Spensive, and the RS stands for Really Spensive.

All in all, just maintaining the car, I've spent about $2,500 a year. This is a combination of me doing some of the work, and the mechanic doing some of the work. So as it has been stated, you need to have money handy at all times.

Also, one thing that I've noticed, is that the community is not nearly as broad. For VWs, you can find DIYs for almost everything you will ever need to do on the vortex or other sources. That is not the case for these cars. Since there are so few of them, and the parts really do not spread multiple models, it is really slim pickens as far as help from the community goes.


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## mithril (Feb 6, 2003)

travis_gli said:


> I don't have anything against large naturally aspirated motors but they can be major gas hogs in regards to performance which cuts back on wanting it for a daily driver.


The difference between a bare bones OEM 2.7T and 4.2L in terms of fuel economy is about 2 or 3 mpg at best, mod the 2.7T for power all of a sudden the 4.2L will look economical. The A6 is not particularly noted for it's outstanding fuel economy, especially if most of your driving is in town on surface streets... big powerful engines combined with 2 ton curb weights will do that to you regardless of whether they're NA or FI. Basically you can expect SUV-esque fuel economy, although it will be better if you do lots of highway.

In town my 4.2L gets an amazing 10 - 11mpg banghead because it's all very short trips with stop lights/signs on every corner. On the highway however I can easily pull 23.5 - 24mpg all day long (and that's climbing up and down high mountain passes at 130 - 140kph). Whatever your current fuel bill is in your 1.8T, you can reasonably expect it to at least double whether you buy a 2.7T or 4.2L.


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## mywagonproject (Nov 12, 2011)

StantonGTI said:


> Also, one thing that I've noticed, is that the community is not nearly as broad. For VWs, you can find DIYs for almost everything you will ever need to do on the vortex or other sources. That is not the case for these cars. Since there are so few of them, and the parts really do not spread multiple models, it is really slim pickens as far as help from the community goes.


Have you ventured over to audizine, and checked out the C5 section? Great community, hardly any bickering and tons of info and diy's for just about anything you want to do.


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## mithril (Feb 6, 2003)

mywagonproject said:


> Have you ventured over to audizine, and checked out the C5 section? Great community, hardly any bickering and tons of info and diy's for just about anything you want to do.


Quattroworld is pretty good too.


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