# The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps



## dasdachshund (Jan 3, 2006)

Thought I'd transfer over to a new thread, my last post from "Changed hoses and it still doesn't run right":
"OK, after doing a lot of soul searching, and like I said, not being in love with this car, I made the hard decision to keep it and try to fix my problems with the hot weather running. Problem is it hasn’t been hot enough out lately to replicate my problem described above. Car has been running just dandy, though. I’ve been on the NeoBentley a lot lately (thanks tons tolusina ) and came across the picture of the CIS fuel pump taken apart with around 150,000 miles on it here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2890716 
What’s really telling is just how much that armature is worn out. I just have to believe that mine is in the same condition. The weeniemoble has around 180,000 miles on it. So I was going to order the whole fuel pump works from GermanAutoParts.com but decided to run this by the local FLAPS I trust so much called Cost Less Auto Parts in North Vancouver. They quoted me a rebuilt main one, a Python brand, which they say they’ve had very good luck with for $108 and a new transfer in-tank pump for $54. Short story, I went and picked them up yesterday and will get to the transfer pump tonight and the main pump this weekend. Will take tons of pic’s and post up the results, but I probably won’t know if this solves my problem unless the weather gets above 90F again, and it doesn’t get that hot all that often around here.
-dasdachshund"
Let's start the new thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif :
Well, it turned warm again this afternoon and when I got off of work, I pulled out into traffic and promptly got into stop and go for 10 minutes before I could get to the freeway on ramp (Which usually takes me 1-2 minutes). I finally accelerated onto the highway and got up to speed where the car promptly shuddered and shook for a few beats, but then settled down and ran nice up to North Vancouver. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Ah yes, the hot running car blues, again.







Thoughts of selling the weeniemoble flood my mind at that moment, but I have the new pumps at home. If I can just get home. 
I was dreading getting off the freeway back into stop and go traffic, and it did hiccup a few times on the surface streets. I pulled into a gas station (Got gas for under $4/gal for the first time in months! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







) and put a couple bucks in because I was low, and this enabled the car to sit for a while, and I hoped at least let me make it a few more blocks. I got to the Boys and Girls club and picked my daughter up with no further problems, and turned and headed for home, not knowing what to expect. Easing it off the line and in shifting, seemed to help. It only hiccupped once on the way home, (shifting from second to third up a hill) and when I pulled into the driveway and shut it off, there was no way I was going to drive it again without at least changing the transfer pump in the tank.
Changing the in-tank fuel pump is a snap. Nothing to it at all I’ll take you through mine.
1.	Undo the two screws in the front of the back seat bottom.

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2.	Pull the seat out and Voila! Look at all that treasure.

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3.	Clean all the dirt and debris up. You’re only interested in the round black cover on the passenger side. Take the three screws off.

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4.	The cover comes off to reveal something like this

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Mine has been messed with sometime in it’s life because it has a screw hose clamp on the top hose (non-standard) and a crimp type (standard OEM) on the bottom hose.
5.	Undo the hose clamps . 

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6.	Take all the hoses and electrical connector off the top.

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7.	Now see those notches around the outside of the top of the assembly? Get a big screwdriver and hammer and whack it counter-clock wise. For some reason, mine took a real good whack to unlock. It will only turn about ½ inch, so be careful. 

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8.	Now comes the fun part of finaggleing that whole assembly out of the hole. It doesn’t seem like it will come out in one piece, but here’s proof it does. (after a good 2 minutes of twisting and turning)

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9.	Well, at least my screen on the bottom of the old pump wasn’t clogged with Ka-Ka (good thing) Kinda old looking though, and when I peered into the tank, you could clearly see the bottom through the gas and it was in terrific shape, no rust or sediemnt at all. I’m very happy. 

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10.	Take a good pair of ***** and cut off the OEM clamp from that little piece of hose that goes from the pump, to the top assembly

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11.	Here’s what it looks like apart. Just leave the old hose on the old pump, you don’t need it anyway. You did get a new piece of 5/16" hose didn't ya?

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12.	Ah, my new 5/16 fuel line and new screw clamps. I got 2 feet, way overkill.

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13.	Put the new pump on the top assembly, just like the old one. Connect up the electrical connection. I just cut a chunk of new 5/16 hose the same length as the old.

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14.	Clamp it down good and snug.

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Finaggle that pump and assembly back into the hole and make sure not to pinch the o-ring under the top. Whack it back into place with the screwdriver in the notch, this time going clockwise. It only goes a little ways and locks into place. Mine really snapped into place smartly. Tighten the clamps on the hoses and reconnect the electrical connector.

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15.	That’s it, folks!!
16.	Ah yes, an excursion under the back seat can potentially make you somewhat wealthier if you had the right previous owner, but alas, all I got was 11 cents, a cool little tin of Tiger Balm, and a previous owners Blood donor information cards and Oregon Liquor Control Commission I.D. card from 1981. And a very suggestive little piece of wood, almost like a cork. Hummmmmm……..

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Does the weeniemoble run better? Like I said before, I have to wait for hot weather (Maybe tomorrow afternoon?) to find out, but it did fire right off and revved like a VW should and settled down to a real smooth idle, something it hasn’t done in a long time. Next on the list is the main pump. I’ll post pic’s of that change, too.
-dasdachshund




_Modified by dasdachshund at 12:50 PM 8-6-2008_


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## native-texan_in_tn (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*

Excellent write-up which took longer to photograph and caption than to actually complete, I'm sure! I noticed the same improvement in running when I swapped mine out, too, so getting done with the main pump certainly won't hurt things, either. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dasdachshund (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (native-texan_in_tn)*

OK, I got the main pump changed out and it was a job I thought would be a bear, and it didn’t disappoint me.







I started at 9am in the morning and was finally completely done just after 2pm, so you’re warned. Although I did make a couple mistakes which I’ll point out which should probably chop at least a good 45 minutes off the total time. Here we go:
Picture of the newly rebuilt Python fuel pump. Heavy duty unit, looks good.








You will need to jack your car up and get it good and stable on jack stands, unless you are Flatman or his side kick Ribbon. 
















Ok, now we are dealing with lots of fuel here, so do yourself a favor and disconnect that ground from the battery.








Now find your fuel pump. I’m not kidding. I thought mine was in the passenger side rear wheel well. Nope. It is approximately directly under the place where the front passenger’s seat belt winds into by the rear seat. This picture is taken by the back wheel. In the picture which is the pump? Number 1 or number 2? It’s number 2. Number 1 is called the fuel accumulator and number 2 is the pump, all packaged up in a sound proof little foam box, courtesy of your friendly VW in Wolfsburg. It’s supposed to be a sound deadening thing so the pump whine won’t drive you crazy. But it will drive you crazy trying to get that banjo fitting off the pump, so don’t try. This is where I lost at least 45 minutes!!








Start by disconnecting the 3/8” rubber fuel hose that goes onto a metal fuel line going toward the back of the car from the pump. ****WARNING-* This is the long line from the pump up to the engine. When you disconnect this hose, approximately 2-3 cups of fuel are going to come out. Get an appropriate size container to catch it in.*** Yes, it takes a long time but it will stop draining, let it all come out.








Now disconnect both lines from the fuel accumulator. That’s the round cylinder thing just inboard the fuel pump (Number 1 above). Disconnect both ends of the line that routes under the pump to a fitting. Both of those ends take a 17mm and a 14mm wrench to crack. Then disconnect the larger short line to the pump at the accumulator. This takes 19mm and 17mm wrenches to crack open. Leave the other end of the fuel line ON THE PUMP.








When the lines are off the accumulator, now you can take the nuts holding the big ‘ol box and pump, off. One is an 11mm (WT?!?!?) and the other is a 13mm by the outside of the car. You may also want to loosen that small stamped braket under the accumulator which holds the emergency brake cable in place. And the little metal wire one right by the pump itself.








OK, now that you have some wiggle room with the pump assembly, now you can now finagle and get those two wires off under the rubber caps. One is a 7mm the other is 8mm. The connectors are also different sizes so you can’t make a mistake putting the wiring back on. After getting the wires off, now you can slip that whole big ‘ol box out and onto your workbench, or in my case, fence top. Here is what it’ll look like, all grimy and dirty from the years under the car.
























Take everything over and give it a good scrub so you can win “best looking fuel pump carrier” at your next show.








Yep, mine was probably the original pump with 180,000+ miles on it.








Now you can take that banjo fitting off the other end of the old pump and transfer it all over to the new one (Mine didn’t come with any new fittings or washers whatsoever) Now, I went over to get new copper crush washers at my friendly neighborhood hardware store but they were out, so I got some fuel impervious sealer and coated both sides of the old copper washers and reused. I know, it’s just asking for trouble, but you gotta do what ya gotta do on a Sunday with no running car. So far, it is fine. Put everything back together…..Purrrty.








Here is what the space looks like without the pump.








Reassemble everything. I put the wires on first so I knew the rubber boots were good and sealing the connections, then finagled the assembly back into place. Reattached the 11mm and 13mm nuts. Then reconnected all the lines, SNUG!! The hardest part was getting that short, stubby line from the pump back onto the accumulator. The others were a snap. Then put all the brackets back on and tighten. Remember those emergency cable brackets, too.








Lastly, you get to go and put the negative cable back on the battery and then fire it off. It’ll take a lot of cranks (Maybe 5-8 seconds, remember you emptied that fuel line to the front of the car) but what a sound when it fires. Mine was SMMMOOOOOTH.








Now turn it back off and go back around and check for leaks. Mine didn’t have any and I gave a big sigh, danced a jig, and made holy signs to the fuel pump gods.







I was through, but I am going to check it again in a couple days just to make sure.
Good luck with yours.
-dasdachshund



_Modified by dasdachshund at 7:03 AM 8-7-2008_


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## dasdachshund (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*

UPDATE
Today (8/4/08) it was 88F and a good test for the weeniemobile, so after work (the hottest part of the day around 3:30pm) I got on the freeway and made my way up north about 5-6 miles to an exit I knew I could get off and be safe at if it died. The car had the pep I remembered it having way back when and never missed a beat going up there. I drove about 2 miles in stop and go traffic on surface streets and I didn’t baby it either. Kinda daring it to hiccup. No problems whatsoever. Drove back down south again on the freeway to my house and it didn’t miss a beat. I’m convinced that I have solved my hot running problem and am very happy to be driving the drop-top in the super nice weather. My old fuel pump never would have made it being taxed out to the max like that. I’m going to be going down to Eugene this weekend for the US Amateur golf tourney. Drop top all the way, baby.
Absolutely no leaks anywhere in the fuel system and I really want to recommend the sealant I used on the copper washers called “SealAll”. And for $1.69. Also gonna try it on my #2 fuel injector that is weeping to see if I can get that to stop, too. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








The only thing is, is that I don’t know which pump was the one dieing, but I now have two good pumps which give me a lot of peace of mind.







I just may have to cut my old one open to see the condition of the armature. I’m curious.








Trade-in thoughts are gone for now….
-dasdachshund


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## DaveLinger (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*

holy moly dude, I think most of the drivers in here would have just sold the car before going through all of the work you have! Great job! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## THOM.E.GUNZ (Feb 6, 2008)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (DaveLinger)*

Thanks for the thread. I'm changing my transfer pump this weekend. This helps a lot.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (THOM.E.GUNZ)*

"WARNING DANGER WILL ROBINSON" If you remove the ring please place a piece of duct tape over the blade of the screwdriver to reduce the chance of a stray spark.... or to quote Johnny Storm of the Fantastic Four "FLAME ON"
You can also reduce the chance by not disconnecting your fuel hoses until after you remove the ring.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*

And you wanted to get rid of it...















Nice how-to... so nice, it's been Cabby-Info'd.


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## native-texan_in_tn (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (kamzcab86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kamzcab86* »_And you wanted to get rid of it...















Nice how-to... so nice, it's been Cabby-Info'd.
















Good call and excellent write-up... Yep, changing both does give you plenty of peace of mind, I agree! Glad the changes smoothed her out... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Colombian Gringo (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*

Great write-up! Thank you for taking the time to do it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dasdachshund (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (kamzcab86)*

UPDATE......again








Anyway it was 96F out yesterday and I had a lot of running around to do. No leaks. The car never failed to fire or run flawlessly in all the hot weather I was in yesterday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I really consider the '85 cabriolet hot weather funky blues permanently fixed.
Now I don't know for SURE, but my seat of the pants evaluation tells me that the car is running much smoother and much more peepier now that I've done the re-pump thang. I don't have to baby it around anymore in the hot weather and I am surprised when it doesn't burp when I shift gears. I really believe that my fuel pressure was very marginal and that the car is now running with the proper pressure. MUCH better.


_Quote, originally posted by *kamzcab86* »_And you wanted to get rid of it...















Nice how-to... so nice, it's been Cabby-Info'd.
















Also, thanks for putting my write up in the info site. Kam. I try to make it my goal to make my posts informative enough to make it onto the info site if you choose. Now I have a goal of making it into the NeoBentley!







Thanks, again.








Am I in love with my car now? Still negative. Maybe if I can get it to stop leaking when it rains......








-dasdachshund


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dasdachshund* »_....... Now I have a goal of making it into the NeoBentley!







.....

This thread is already so there, Group 20, didn't you get my IM?

<edit>
copy/paste of the IM.......
_(4:10 PM 8-5-2008) tolusina: Gill,
Your "weeniemobile fuel pumps" thread is a great how to write up, lots of annotated photos and a decent explanation of each. It sure goes beyond what Bentley offers and looks to be a great help to newbies looking for help.
You can find your thread linked on the neoBentley+ at both of it's locations......
http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/
and
http://mk1dubs.com/modules.php...id=22
Hope you don't mind.
TIA,
Ron
_

</edit>


Great thread here!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif














_Modified by tolusina at 7:33 PM 8-7-2008_


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## mkr001 (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*

I'm currently dealing with similar problems on both my cabs







NICE write-up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BellCityDubber (Jun 13, 2007)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (mkr001)*

hey cool
just what I needed for my cabby...


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## 89dx (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (BellCityDubber)*

wow iam doing this tomorrow and this thread will be a great help to me, my cabby is doing the same symptoms, dying at stops, hiccups and the shake and bake








thanks


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## livingez123 (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (89dx)*

Does the 82 Cabbys have the in tank pump also?


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (livingez123)*

I love the fact you managed to get the fuel pump brackets to survive the procedure. I've replaced dozens of pumps and have YET to have one bracket live thru the process. 
I usually put the foam surround on the pump and then zip-tie it to the e-brake cable to keep it from flopping around. 
I just thought I'd mention that for anyone trying to do the job as well as you did and not quite managing


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## egranlund (Jul 21, 2008)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (Moljinar)*

My bracket survived








While this thread is back from the dead, you rule, made this job so much easier.
I was gonna state that when I did mine, I was able to get the pump out without disconnecting the accumulator, I was able to fanagle the pump around it which is good, as that fitting would not budge.
Thanks again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ilovevvv (Oct 17, 2008)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (egranlund)*

saved... just got my fuel pumps ordered... you broke it down for me son..lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maketoast (Mar 7, 2009)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (ilovevvv)*

This is one of the first things I did when I bought the cabby a few years back. Great write up.. I'm missing the main fuel pump carrier, so it makes a little more noise than stock.
Also, I used vice grips to turn the sending unit. I put them right on the lip and voila!.


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## Mr_Sandman (Jun 10, 2007)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dasdachshund* »_UPDATE
....Absolutely no leaks anywhere in the fuel system and I really want to recommend the sealant I used on the copper washers called “SealAll”. And for $1.69. Also gonna try it on my #2 fuel injector that is weeping to see if I can get that to stop, too. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-dasdachshund


Great write-up!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
A trick I learned from the USAF for those copper washers, if you can't get new ones you can "Anneal" the old ones.
requires a butane torch
little piece of wire (steel)
cup of water.
Take the copper washer and hang it from a loop of wire. With the torch get the washer cherry red then quench (drop) in the water.
Washer is now nice and soft like new. 
I have reused the oil pan and fuel washers for years with this method.
Sandy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...urgy)


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## dasdachshund (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (ilovevvv)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ilovevvv* »_saved... just got my fuel pumps ordered... you broke it down for me son..lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Son?!?!?







You must be in your late 80's then.
Yeah, I about spit up my Diet Coke when I saw this thread back from the dead. But my cab is STILL running great in hot weather. No hesitation whatsoever. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Now, if I could only say the same thing about my rattely exhaust and leaky top.








-dasdachshund


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Thanks for awesome article. I'm getting power loss below 1/2 tank at times. Already changed inline pump..needed to know how to change in tank pump(already have it). This write up is perfect and much appreciated. I'm working on a 92 cabby right now..have a 91 EA right behind it too.


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## livingez123 (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (dasdachshund)*

Rattely exhaust and leaky top here in Portland too!
I know how to fix the exh, its the dang leaky top I can't figure out.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

follow up to power loss below 1/2 tank: The rubber hose from the float assembly to the fuel pump was very bad. I'm guessing it was letting air in when the fuel level got below it. Replaced rubber hose, replaced intank pump..car runs well. No starvation below 1/2 tank anymore.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps (livingez123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *livingez123* »_Does the 82 Cabbys have the in tank pump also?

A little late to the party, but no, the '82s only have the main pump under the car. Reaplced mine at 180,xxx miles and had no real lissues. Bracket/carrier made it through intact. I, too, used one of the Python reman pumps with great results.


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## cheeseland (Nov 27, 2006)

bringing it back to life again


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## easilyamused (Oct 8, 2003)

Thank you very much for this. I've been having what seems to be the same hot-weather issue with my cabby, so i'll be changing out the fuel pumps as well in hopes that fixes it.


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## jgold723 (Jul 23, 2010)

*Thank you*

This thread saved my day. Had the same problem with my 87 and I replaced the inline pump today. I'll be doing the tank pump later. I found I had to remove the fuel accumulator in order to get everything apart, but otherwise followed your directions. You never did say how you removed that banjo fitting from the old pump -- I ended up snapping off the old terminals because they were preventing me from unscrewing the fitting. Thanks again.


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## jgold723 (Jul 23, 2010)

*Question about the transfer pump -- what's the purpose of the second line*

I did the transfer pump (in tank) today. Went well, except that it was a real bear to get the 5/16 hose on. Question: There's a second fuel line extending down from the sending unit (the first being the one that the pump attaches to). What does it do? The rubber fuel line had completely rotted away and unfortunately, I didn't have enough to replace it, so I put the unit back in without it. It ran fine, so I'm wondering what it's purpose is? Should I get some more hose?

John


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## easilyamused (Oct 8, 2003)

Mine was missing the line as well, I went ahead and put a line on it just in case. I eyeballed the measurement of the one in the pictures from dasdachshund's original post and cut one to the same length. So far it hasn't caused any problems having it on, though I still can't really decide what is; i'm thinking it's just a return line though.


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## alphastrikefx (Aug 26, 2008)

because of this post i pulled my pump out in 5 mins thank you :beer:


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## alphastrikefx (Aug 26, 2008)

jgold723 said:


> You never did say how you removed that banjo fitting from the old pump -- I ended up snapping off the old terminals because they were preventing me from unscrewing the fitting. Thanks again.


i had the open end wrench over the terminal at an angle that allowed me to hold the lower nut the with the other wrench i unscrewed the nut holding the banjo


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## dasdachshund (Jan 3, 2006)

Well hello from a long time vacationer from the Vortex. I can't beblieve this thread still exists.

I've been searching for it and searching because I still get messages from Vortex every once and a while asking about it. I thought it was gone for good in the change over to the new format so I've been telling people it's gone and I need to write it again. Now I don't need to. Bookmarked.

Whoa, there are a lot of fuel pump related threads going on right now, here in the Cabriolet section. Glad this helps.

Me? I'm still not missing the leaky, rattely, unevenly ideling Weeniemobile. I'm now occupied with my Herbie and a 1970 Riviera Bus that leaks almost as much as the Weeniemobile.  I hate leaky cars... Doing lots of traveling to China these days getting ready for retirement, and nursing old creeky 15 year old dachshunds along.

I again want to thank the experts for their kindness and support when I needed it with the Cab, Moljinar, Kammie, tolusina, briano1234, Sehaare (sp?), and the 15 others I can't remember their names (it's been a long time) here at Vortex. It's way more helpful than Samba, where I spend a lot of time on the Bay forum, but don't post much, too much attitude:facepalm:...

-dasdachshund


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

dasdachshund said:


> Well hello from a long time vacationer from the Vortex.


:wave: See, they always come back... 



dasdachshund said:


> It's way more helpful than Samba, where I spend a lot of time on the Bay forum, but don't post much, too much attitude:facepalm:...


You should've bought a Vanagon instead... less attitude, more friendly bickering (Which awning? Which tires? Which engine swap? Which coolant pipes? Which shower system? Which solar system? Which roof rack?). :laugh: 

Anyway, still need to PDF this guide, which I'll get around to eventually. :beer:


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

*FV-QR*

This thread has been linked on neoBentley+ for a long time, it's pretty darn comprehensive.

Ima go shorten some tie rods now, Ima bevel the edges before I weld though, use lotsa staggered plug welds.


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## dasdachshund (Jan 3, 2006)

tolusina said:


> ......Ima go shorten some tie rods now, Ima bevel the edges before I weld though, use lotsa staggered plug welds.


You musta seen the spanking I got on Samba.:laugh: Ahh, the love......

-dasdachshund


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I think I have about three total thesamba.com posts, I was selling off some old Air Cooled Special Tools, I hope I don't regret it.

Only took me about an hour :groan: to find your threads, then I was just lost trying to be clever, so I posted here.

Seriously, if I had a welder but no tap, I'd do pretty much what you did the 1st go round, I would bevel and gap the weld area though, it's very hard to get full penetration on straight butt welds.


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## dasdachshund (Jan 3, 2006)

tolusina said:


> ..................Seriously, if I had a welder but no tap, I'd do pretty much what you did the 1st go round, I would bevel and gap the weld area though, it's very hard to get full penetration on straight butt welds.


Yep, I can weld, but the way I did it with not much bevel (actually there is a tiny bevel at the butt)and only one plug hole scared me after I REALLY thought about it. Maybe I'll cut them apart and try again. I've got 500 miles on the new front end in the Bus with no problems. I spent the July 4th weekend fixing the leak in my Bus back window. About the bottom 8 inches on the passenger side was nothing but rust dust under the rubber seal, then I gouged my new paint putting the window back in with the new, un-cooperative rubber seal. :banghead: 

BTW....No, I don't plan on getting another Cabriolet at all. I sorta cringe when I see one, too. I think it was the leaks and the wet left leg. I'm scarred. (sp?)  But maybe a mid-90's Jetta.:thumbup:

-dasdachshund


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

dasdachshund said:


> BTW....No, I don't plan on getting another Cabriolet at all. I sorta cringe when I see one, too. I think it was the leaks and the wet left leg. I'm scarred. (sp?)


And yet...



dasdachshund said:


> I spent the July 4th weekend fixing the leak in my Bus back window. About the bottom 8 inches on the passenger side was nothing but rust dust under the rubber seal, then I gouged my new paint putting the window back in with the new, un-cooperative rubber seal. :banghead:


You simply traded one problem-child for another.  :laugh:  :heart:


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## vwshauner (May 10, 2011)

subscribed


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## Makako (Nov 15, 2009)

good job! I myself have to fix a leak. I already saw it is the fuel accumulator, seeing and i'm hoping that it's the drips from that that are spraying the tank. but i'm going to pull it all anyway, i'm in the middle of building a new exhaust for this as well so def don't want my sparks to ignite anything... hmm.. i bet this is why the car's loosing power up top in the rpm as well....hm... this is gonna run NASTY when i'm done..


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## dmock (Nov 15, 2011)

i have a question relating to this! can either pump be "half out" or its either working or it doesnt? my car isnt getting fuel and i can feel the in take pump vibrating and i couldnt hear the main one humming or anything so i pulled it out connected it to the battery and it made noise and sprayed fuel.. so does that mean there both good or possibly its "half bad" thanks


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## dave93cab (Jun 26, 2012)

Couple of questions. 

I have: 
- digifant 93 cabby 
- replacement main pump 
- replacement fuel filter 
- hose clamps 

What size crush washer do I need? And how many? I will pick them up on my way home from work 

If I disconnect the fuel pump relay and run the car till it stalls will it reduce the amount of fuel that comes out when I disconnect the fuel line to the front of the car? 

Thanks a lot!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

This is a CIS how to. Not to be confused with the Digifant. 

There are no crush washers involved. 
If you want to replace both pumps, and then buy only one that is slightly noisier then the 
in-tank pump use Ron's Thread, and my additional information to get a 50 dollar pump that does it all. 

Replacing the Primary and In-tank pump, elimination of the Accumulator, and getting rid of 6 foot of piping, it is the bomb... 

http://reflectionsandshadows.com/single-pump-conversion/ 

My addition 

http://www.the152.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4815&highlight=ron+fuel+pump 

Read both before buying the pump. 

You will need to remove the gas cap to vent the tank and system. You will also be disconnecting the battery.


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## dave93cab (Jun 26, 2012)

This is what mine looked like. No soundproof box or anything? Normal? 

 

Got the fuel pump and filter swapped out easily enough. Fair amount of rusty-looking goop came out of the fuel filter.. 

Might have a look at the single-pump solution another time. Sounds cheaper!  

edit: 

I bought the fuel pump from autohausaz.com, it is a Bosch unit. I had to Dremel off the "keys" on the fuel pump electrical connector, it had two on one side (too far apart for the slots on the plug) and a single one in the middle on the other. 

Also both links you posted are to the same page. 

Thanks!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

fixed.


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## dave93cab (Jun 26, 2012)

Zero problems with the single-pump setup? I just had a read of the two links, I'm not sure whether the OP was having troubles on corners or not? Definitely interesting next time one goes bad. Thanks


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## ShaggyMutt1 (Jun 19, 2012)

Check the ground at sending unit with multimeter


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## tinygiant (Mar 17, 2012)

subscribed


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## Ruthlessone3k (Aug 17, 2012)

Man I'm glad you guys dug this thread up, this describes what is happening to my car exactly. Guess it's time to change fuel pumps!


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## flipty (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm resurrecting this thread because I'm in the middle of doing my main pump swap.

Several things of note on my '88 with what I can't tell is the original pump or not:


My accumulator has a very different fitting on it in place of the smaller one, some sort of odd 90* press-to-fit plastic macroline hose that goes to the front of the car. Clearly not stock.
Everything on the bottom of my car makes the photos the original poster shared look like it's on the showroom floor. Every part of mine is not covered in dust like his, but thick rust. It took some major work to get the carrier out of there as well as having to basically tear apart whatever bushing scraps remained in-tact.
German Auto Parts recommends using radiator mounts as fuel pump carrier bushings. So far this has been an excellent idea.
How anyone could do this in a gravel driveway is beyond me. I'm on a smooth cement garage floor with 2 layers of carpet padding where I spent most of my time doing this. My applause to anyone doing this outdoors.
My fuel pump carrier was basically just dangling there. Essentially floating because of hose tension. This is because the original bushings have all given way. They appear to be two bolts back-to-back that have been inserted into molten rubber. This obviously doesn't last in Minnesota and Wisconsin. If you're up North, get the bushings, you'll need it, and you'll probably have to get creative with your re-mounting.

So my only real question is this: How tight do I need to tighten the banjo bolt with my new crush washers? As tight as I can, or is there a spec?

So far I'm 4 hours in, but that counts two trips to the parts store for hose, and one stop at dairy queen. I sound like I'm whining and moaning but I had a good time working on it today, and if I get it all together tomorrow and she runs and doesn't leak.. I'm going to be a very happy camper.


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## flipty (Mar 5, 2012)

dave93cab said:


> This is what mine looked like. No soundproof box or anything? Normal?
> 
> 
> 
> Might have a look at the single-pump solution another time. Sounds cheaper!


Um, isn't THAT a single pump setup? That looks to me like someone put a fuel filter where the fuel accumulator is supposed to go, and then used an in-tank pump slightly modified to be the main pump. Am I taking crazy pills?


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

flipty said:


> Um, isn't THAT a single pump setup? That looks to me like someone put a fuel filter where the fuel accumulator is supposed to go, and then used an in-tank pump slightly modified to be the main pump. Am I taking crazy pills?


Um, dave93cab's might just be a '93, ya think? Like with DigiFant.


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## flipty (Mar 5, 2012)

tolusina said:


> Um, dave93cab's might just be a '93, ya think? Like with DigiFant.


Ah, I am not familiar at all with any of the digifant differences except for the few things that seem to be attached to the airbox and valve cover when people post pics of their engine bays.


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## capekeeper (Mar 23, 2008)

flipty said:


> Um, isn't THAT a single pump setup? That looks to me like someone put a fuel filter where the fuel accumulator is supposed to go, and then used an in-tank pump slightly modified to be the main pump. Am I taking crazy pills?


Honestly, do you own a Bentley? If you do, it is not a sin to consult it prior to replacing a part or posting a question here. 

For example, you might find Figure 4-1 on page 5-9 helpful. And if you have not actually removed your main pump yet, you might want to consider the procedure outlined on 5-13 under ...wait for it...”Replacing Fuel Pump.” 

You'll need something to drain the fuel that will be expelled into unless you want gasoline all over your garage floor. And do make sure that you disconnect your battery. We wouldn't want you to set your Cabby (or house) ablaze.


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## flipty (Mar 5, 2012)

capekeeper said:


> Honestly, do you own a Bentley? If you do, it is not a sin to consult it prior to replacing a part or posting a question here.
> 
> For example, you might find Figure 4-1 on page 5-9 helpful. And if you have not actually removed your main pump yet, you might want to consider the procedure outlined on 5-13 under ...wait for it...”Replacing Fuel Pump.”
> 
> You'll need something to drain the fuel that will be expelled into unless you want gasoline all over your garage floor. And do make sure that you disconnect your battery. We wouldn't want you to set your Cabby (or house) ablaze.


I do own a Bentley. I didn't look at the fuel pump replacement section in it because of this thread. At least half the time when I consult my Bentley for instruction I get information that's ideal for repairs when the car is 5 feet up on a lift and there's no rust or wear on any parts anywhere in the vicinity. However the Bentley doesn't seem to have any advice for when the car has actually been in existence for more than a few years. As much as my Bentley has been interesting reading for the few months I've had it, 9 times out of 10 a thread with real people doing real-world repairs trumps it.

EDIT -- on your suggestion I just read 5-13. As I suspected it was pretty well simplified. Shorter than this post with the quote attached if I had to guess. It certainly said exactly what to do (and I did catch the torque spec for the banjo bolt in Fig.4-1, which is nice, thanks for the catch on that) but it didn't say what to do when encountering any problems. I, and I'm sure very many folks here are not mechanics by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm sure like a lot of people on the internet I don't have any friends with this level of mechanic experience... so I'm on my own so to speak with any sort of repairs. I may have a friend come over to help put extra weight on a breaker bar and share some beers, but this forum is basically that 'friend that knows cars' for me.


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## capekeeper (Mar 23, 2008)

flipty said:


> However the Bentley doesn't seem to have any advice for when the car has actually been in existence for more than a few years.


I would respectfully disagree. IMHO, consulting the Bentley PRIOR to doing repairs is ALWAYS a good idea. This is especially true when the systems involved -- fuel and electrical come to mind -- can potentially produce dangerous outcomes unless care is taken while working on them. The Bentley also contains something which you personally might find beneficial: a repair sequence. Such a plan of attack -- structure, if you like -- can be most helpful when tackling a repair that you have never before undertaken. 

I do agree, though, that the Bentley is not perfect: I've had issues arise on which the Bentley was silent. But consulting the repair manual is a good habit to get into -- and I think that you'll find that the acquisition of good habits is an important part of learning how to troubleshoot these temperamental, old Cabbies. 

Good luck with your pump replacement. 

Damon


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## flipty (Mar 5, 2012)

capekeeper said:


> Good luck with your pump replacement.


It went great, I'm thrilled with the results!


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## grizz13 (Jan 14, 2015)

Is there a better brand anyone have for the in tank fuel pump for an 89 Cabriolet? I have found a few and would like to know what you guys suggest...


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

any one under 50 bucks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEYLE-In-Ta...n|Model:Cabriolet&hash=item4873302d38&vxp=mtr

Here is a good price for a main pump...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-I...n|Model:Cabriolet&hash=item5b0349450d&vxp=mtr

Even a better price I think
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Audi-80...ump-/290908990749?hash=item43bb86ed1d&vxp=mtr


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## grizz13 (Jan 14, 2015)

I went ahead and bought one from O'rielly Auto and they had one direct from VW for about $60. Couldn't complain about that price and they had one here for me in 2 days.


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## grizz13 (Jan 14, 2015)

OK, I am getting 10 Volts to the 3 prong connector to the pump, even when I have the ignition on and the pump is not in the tank it still does not operate. The 2-prong connector is not spiking any power at all between the gauge and the pump unit when I turn the ignition on and off. No idea at all.:banghead:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

grizz13 said:


> OK, I am getting 10 Volts to the 3 prong connector to the pump, even when I have the ignition on and the pump is not in the tank it still does not operate. The 2-prong connector is not spiking any power at all between the gauge and the pump unit when I turn the ignition on and off. No idea at all.:banghead:


10V is low so that is the senders voltage at the gauge.. Verify your grounds and your measurements.. 
The 3 prong connector is usually the violet one is from the sender to the gauge 10v to ground

red/yelllow is 12V and Brn is ground. So from violet to brown 10V or thereabouts depending on where your float is.

So you would see 10V on the violet as the voltage to the Gauge as that is tied to the 10V stabilizer in the dash.

Red/yellow to brown 12V with Key on.

So it almost sounds as if your issue is missing 12V or ground to the pumps...
As that Transfer or in-tank pump is feed over from the main at the fuse f5 15A

Jumper out the relay no 12V at pump but at the fuse broken wire.
No 12V at the fuse bad fuse or fuse box issue. On the relay you will jumper 2/30 to 3/87


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## grizz13 (Jan 14, 2015)

Ok whew talk about a dumb-dumb I forgot to switch my relays out, now both pumps are working! The RMP's dropped by about 750-1000 so I'm pretty happy about that! Tomorrow I'll test the cold start again


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

grizz13 said:


> Ok whew talk about a dumb-dumb I forgot to switch my relays out, now both pumps are working! The RMP's dropped by about 750-1000 so I'm pretty happy about that! Tomorrow I'll test the cold start again


CRS and repairs go hand in hand sometimes specially when it is cold outside and you are working on your car.


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## grizz13 (Jan 14, 2015)

briano1234 said:


> CRS and repairs go hand in hand sometimes specially when it is cold outside and you are working on your car.


Luckily I have a half decent heated garage, bad thing is that I barely have room to get in and out of the car. I just get too far into one path instead of considering another path sometimes. I had just sat back and did some thinking and realized about 30 minutes later I didn't switch the relays, I am just glad that I went ahead and bought one in case it was bad too. It sucks working on cars and having brain injuries... Makes out for some weird thoughts... Though oddly it is kind of stressful figuring things out, yet it is relaxing at the same time... Plus I get to feel accomplished when it all works out right! :laugh:


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## CrabbyCabby89 (Apr 25, 2018)

Hi everyone! I’m a 29 old female who’s never worked on a car in her life but has a VW obsession. I recently acquired a 89 Cabby. I’ve done all the upkeep and maintenance on it all myself with the help of Cabby-Info and my Bentley bible. And I am having this same problem as far as the thread is starting. I just bought all 3 band new “pumps” (the in tank, the main and the accumulator) So my very stupid question is how did yinz go about purging the fuel lines? Proper way? Easiest way? Looking for any insight. Thank you!!


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Self purging. If there is any air/vapor in the lines, it will be bled out thru the injectors or the fuel return line.


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

CrabbyCabby89 said:


> Hi everyone! I’m a 29 old female who’s never worked on a car in her life but has a VW obsession. I recently acquired a 89 Cabby. I’ve done all the upkeep and maintenance on it all myself with the help of Cabby-Info and my Bentley bible. And I am having this same problem as far as the thread is starting. I just bought all 3 band new “pumps” (the in tank, the main and the accumulator) So my very stupid question is how did yinz go about purging the fuel lines? Proper way? Easiest way? Looking for any insight. Thank you!!


Yes, it will self purge. It'll be grumpy about starting at first, it'll run a bit rough once it does start, once it finishes its self purge it'll run just as smooth (or poor) as before.

Do make 100% certain you visually inspect EVERY connection you disturb for leakage/seepage as soon as you get it running again.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

CrabbyCabby89 said:


> Hi everyone! I’m a 29 old female who’s never worked on a car in her life but has a VW obsession.


:thumbup::thumbup:



CrabbyCabby89 said:


> I just bought all 3 band new “pumps” (the in tank, the main and the accumulator) So my very stupid question is how did yinz go about purging the fuel lines? Proper way? Easiest way? Looking for any insight. Thank you!!


I'm sure I'll get flack for this  , but I usually turn the ignition key to on, off, wait several seconds, on, off, wait several seconds, on, off, wait several seconds, on, start. You're priming the fuel system a few times (or, purging, if you will) for an easier start after opening the fuel system (or after the car has sat for too long).


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

kamzcab86 said:


> :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure I'll get flack for this  , but I usually turn the ignition key to on, off, wait several seconds, on, off, wait several seconds, on, off, wait several seconds, on, start. You're priming the fuel system a few times (or, purging, if you will) for an easier start after opening the fuel system (or after the car has sat for too long).


I used to do pretty much exactly that after every fuel filter change (thousands of them), only difference being that there's no need to wait between key on cycles. The 'on' cycle lasts only as long as the pumps are running, then off and right back on again.

You can easily hear a decrease in the 'tone' of the fuel pump and the fuel surging through the lines as the air is being purged and the pump slows down.
As you listen to that 'tone', when it stops decreasing and stabilizes, you're done purging the fuel loop. 
Purge of the lines between the fuel distributor and injectors remains, a few seconds of running the engine clears that.


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## CrabbyCabby89 (Apr 25, 2018)

Thanks guys!!! Yinz are awesome!


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