# 2l 20v timing map for msns



## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

anyone have a decent map I can look at? Its a 2l 20v with a hx35 and it works very well but i have no idea how decent my timing really is. I have a feeling its really laid back.


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## 2ToneTurbo (Feb 15, 2007)

Talk to paul (needavr6) . The guy is super helpful and always point me in the right direction. I'm sure he could help..


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

take a screenshot and post it up...

or let us know what your idle timing is, what the peak timing off boost is, and how much youre pulling per psi :beer:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Compression? Fuel type/octane? Screen shot of your timing map would be a good start.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

engine is 2008 cc (aba with 83 mm pistons) 20 valve aeb head ported, 9.25:1 compression,and I race the car on 94 octane sunoco pump gas. I do want to run water meth next year to help.

the engine seems to start loosing power around 7400 rpm.:beer:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

you could be running a lot more timing at the start of your boost bins... somewhere around mid-low 20s
then scale down from there


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## SirSpectre (Mar 20, 2011)

Also, as RPMs rise, your timing can rise, as your load goes up timing decreases. Push a few degrees up top end. Most I've seen (for 16vT aba anyway) is 30kpa bottom end @ 12* @ 700rpm and 30 kpa @ 7k RPM using 45*. 250kpa @ 700 RPM @ 10* and 25* 7k RPM. Go reduce timing as load increases and increase timing as RPM increases. Should be able to add a bunch on the top end of things. [These are just values that a friend was tinkering with lately on his car obviously depends on setup and gas type.]

From research I have done, when you are cruising or Idle, you don't need really advanced timing, reduce it to save on fuel. You don't need max Torque and power when cruising or idling.

When you go meth injection you can add a few degrees all around as well


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

SirSpectre said:


> From research I have done, when you are cruising or Idle, you don't need really advanced timing, reduce it to save on fuel. You don't need max Torque and power when cruising or idling.


this is only partially correct...

i dont like to run a ton of timing at idle, or rather, run whatever it takes to be smooth - 9-13 degrees is what i usually end up with. theres also a great idle advance feature in ms, which helps reduce hunting because it locks the timing...
for the cruising though, running lean will sometimes cause bucking, but bumping the timing _up_ will help smooth that out :beer:


heres an example (paul's vr map, no boost, but you get the idea):


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

how much timing should i pull per pound of boost? thats wear i am most concerned.. do you think im running too much timing up top?


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## SirSpectre (Mar 20, 2011)

I don't think you are running enough up top, but I have limited experience with high boost. Do you have a knock sensor or a good ear? I'd add 1/2 degree until you hear or see pinging then pull it down a full degree from there.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

well i do have a knock sensor but i think its picking up false knocks....my drivetrain is solid steel mounted and i think its screwing me. it starts flashing the knock light as soon as my foot is planted but it does seem to make a difference if i pull like 10 degrees out or just leave it. thats why im wondering if my timing is crazy.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

A2TDI said:


> how much timing should i pull per pound of boost? thats wear i am most concerned.. do you think im running too much timing up top?


I'm generally chicken when it come to timing under boost so I usually stick with the 1* per psi rule at least once I get above 10psi. If the car is reasonably happy with 10* at your peak boost, you should be fine but I would definately work on the overall timing curve you are running. It's probably costing you a ton of average power and a healthy bit of fuel economy to boot.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

On an efficient turbo/ic setup .5deg/psi will be a lot closer. Word of caution, start conservative and creep on ideal using dyno or track results.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

need_a_VR6 said:


> On an efficient turbo/ic setup .5deg/psi will be a lot closer. Word of caution, start conservative and creep on ideal using dyno or track results.


You just said the magic word Paul, efficient . While my I/C doesn't seem to be too horrible, I know that I am often WAY out of the high efficiency zones of my turbo map given that I am pushing a K03 to 15+psi. But hey, it works .


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

well im running the hx35 at 25 psi for now and i run 3 inch intercooler piping to and from my awic which is ice cooled at the track.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

A2TDI said:


> well im running the hx35 at 25 psi for now and i run 3 inch intercooler piping to and from my awic which is ice cooled at the track.


That should be quite efficient then.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Prof315 said:


> That should be quite efficient then.


no kidding!

crank that timing up :thumbup:


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

so do you think at 25 psi 15 degrees timing would be safe?94 pump gas


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Depends on the IAT's you can hit, if it's sub ambient that is very conservative.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

this thread makes me happy! there must be a crap ton more power waiting for me!


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

A2TDI said:


> this thread makes me happy! there must be a crap ton more power waiting for me!


There should be a good bit and even better there should be quite a bit more EVERYWHERE.


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## A2TDI (Apr 8, 2004)

thanks fellas!


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