# Vag transmission status translation (2003 Mk4 Jetta, 09A)



## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

I hope someone has used the Vagcom / VCDS tool to troubleshoot their 09A Tiptronic transmission, and can help me interpret my findings. I bought the car with some serious shift problems, which I believed were due to bad solenoids. I replaced all nine, and sure enough, all the shifting problems went away, other than a persistent flare (slip) between 2nd and 3rd gear, when warmed up, and when not accelerating very hard at all (granny mode). 

I put my VCDS tool into 02A Auto Transmission mode, then went to "Advanced Measuring Values", and selected "Condition of Solenoid Valves 004-4". Sure enough, I was able to see that the offending "digit" was the third one, and that when shifting from 2nd to 3rd, the third digit would stay at 0 while the engine was rev'ing, but as soon as it clicked to 1, the shift would drop in firmly and all would be right with the world. 

Can anyone tell me what the third digit corresponds to? You can see a screen shot of the VCDS screen here: http://habcycles.com/vagtranshot.jpg 

I assume it's one of the shift solenoids, and that the signal that's being delayed is due to a TCM (TCU?) problem, but maybe someone's got some info on this particular symptom.


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

; 1xxxxxxx - Solenoid Valve 4 (N91) 
; x1xxxxxx - Solenoid Shift Lock 
; xx1xxxxx - Solenoid Valve 9 (N282) 
; xxx1xxxx - Solenoid Valve 8 (N281) 
; xxxx1xxx - Solenoid Valve 3 (N90) 
; xxxxx1xx - Solenoid Valve 5 (N92) 
; xxxxxx1x - Solenoid Valve 2 (N89) 
; xxxxxxx1 - Solenoid Valve 1 (N88) 

-Uwe-


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks, Uwe... that $349 I just spent stings a little bit less now. :laugh: 

Since N282 (aka Solenoid #9) commands brake 2 to release going into 3rd gear (brake 2 is locked in 2nd, 4th and 5th), I just need to figure out where the TCU gets its command to release this brake. The shift happens firmly and immediately as soon as the "1" pops up on the VCDS screen, leading me to believe that the problem is in whatever is delaying sending this signal to the solenoid. 

The only other solenoid that's involved in the 2nd to 3rd gear shift is N88 (aka Solenoid #1) which is de-energized during the shift from 2nd to 3rd. According to the VCDS tool, it's being commanded correctly, and switching states at the right time. Does this solenoid changing states tell the TCU to release brake 2? 

Other than just shotgunning the TCU, I'm at a loss as to diagnosing this further. Anyone else here ever been down this particular (dark and winding...) road before?


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

One more bit of data. It appears the tranny was overfilled before I bought it. I put about 0.5 quarts extra in after replacing the shift solenoids, based on other input (and because I didn't have a VCDS / Vagcom tool to check the level properly). After I got the VCDS tool and verified the tranny fluid temperature, I opened up the "level drain" and was a little shocked by how much fluid came out. I didn't wait for it to entirely stop draining (it was still coming out in a small stream, so I doubt there was TOO much more to go), but I just measured the fluid in the drain pan, and it was 1.6 quarts. That means that the tranny was probably overfilled by at least a quart when I bought it. 

The funny thing is, draining the 1.6 quarts out of the tranny didn't really seem to make any difference to the way it works, though I believe it might have a little more mechanical noise now than before. 

Does anyone think that adding or draining more fluid will make any difference to my problem (slow engagement of 3rd gear, seemingly caused by slow application of solenoid N282 activating brake 2)?


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## RichardSEL (Apr 5, 2010)

Havn't got the 09A Tip. But on mine, the 09G ('06 Passat) the inspect level plug is actually a cover for a tube that goes up inside the pan, as you've already sussed. As a very rough guide, ATF temp of 35°C is reached when indicated engine temp on dash is 65°C. These are my Passat figures. 
So you have to let the flow out decrease to occasional drip, at the correct temperature 40°C, which then indicates correct level of ATF. 
Hope you've got the correct ATF fluid too. Wonder what this box had in it when you got it? 
Torque convertor doesn't fully drain, so capacity is always about 1½ litres retained. But capacity is always quoted at six. This could explain previous owner's overfill. 

Bentley has notes for download for 09G Jetta 2005-8. Seven pages .pdf. Mebe yours there too? 
You'll probably need to re-adapt the box after the changes. 

Post an Autoscan to meet forum rulez? 
Hope this helps...


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

I did the level check with the trans fluid between 40 and 45 degrees C. I did use Mercon V-rated fluid, which I've been told (hopefully, accurately) meets all the specs for VW Tiptronic trannies. I do know that the combination of all new solenoids and the new fluid cleared up a host of other shifting issues, other than this 2nd - 3rd gear flare. 

Sorry, I missed the autoscan rule (and my scan doesn't seem to be telling me much of anything about my transmission). Here's the scan: 

VCDS Version: Release 11.11.5 (x64) 

Data version: 20121222 

Thursday,14,March,2013,17:55:53:58479 

Chassis Type: 9M - VW Jetta IV 
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75 76 

VIN: WVWSE61J43W113648 Mileage: 178170km/110709miles 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.lbl 
Part No: 06A 906 032 LQ 
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0005 
Coding: 07550 
Shop #: WSC 00000 
VCID: 78FF3DE9583724D819C 
WVWSE61J43W113648 VWZ7Z0B5415341 

No fault code found. 
Readiness: 0000 0000 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09A-927-750.lbl 
Part No: 09A 927 750 AJ 
Component: AG5 Getriebe 09A 0215 
VCID: 73E50AC5415147802CE 

No fault code found. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.lbl 
Part No: 1C0 907 379 K 
Component: ASR FRONT MK60 0103 
Coding: 0018945 
Shop #: WSC 01266 785 00200 
VCID: 326BCFC1AECB0E88E78 

1 Fault Found: 
01314 - Engine Control Module 
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl 
Part No: 1C0 909 605 F 
Component: 03 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0001 
Coding: 12339 
Shop #: WSC 01266 
VCID: 275D2E95C5097B20406 

1 Fault Found: 
00532 - Supply Voltage B+ 
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1J0-907-487-A.lbl 
Part No: 1J0 907 487 A 
Component: Lenkradelektronik 0004 
Coding: 00118 
Shop #: WSC 01266 
VCID: 2F6DC6B5EDF92360886 

No fault code found. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl 
Part No: 1J0 920 906 N 
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V11 
Coding: 07234 
Shop #: WSC 00000 
VCID: 3365CAC501D10780ECE 
WVWSE61J43W113648 VWZ7Z0B5415341 

No fault code found. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl 
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway KCAN 0001 
Coding: 00006 
Shop #: WSC 01266 
VCID: F0EF85C9B047FC9851C 

No fault code found. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl 
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C 
Component: 8A Komfortgerát HLO 0003 
Coding: 00258 
Shop #: WSC 01266 
VCID: 377DFED515A9EBA0D06 
Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A 
Component: 8A Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0004 

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A 
Component: 8A Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0004 

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A 
Component: 8A Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0004 

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A 
Component: 8A Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0008 

No fault code found. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Address 56: Radio Labels: 3B7-035-1xx-56.lbl 
Part No: 3B7 035 180 
Component: Radio NP2 0012 
Coding: 04401 
Shop #: WSC 01266 
VCID: DDB1CC7D57D561F0EAA 

4 Faults Found: 
00878 - Connection to Speaker Front Left 
44-10 - Short Circuit - Intermittent 
00879 - Connection to Speaker Front Right 
44-10 - Short Circuit - Intermittent 
00880 - Connection to Speaker Rear Left 
44-10 - Short Circuit - Intermittent 
00881 - Connection to Speaker Rear Right 
44-10 - Short Circuit - Intermittent 

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Jetta Junkie (Apr 18, 2010)

*Adaptions???*

Did you manage to find a fix? My latest issue was almost the same. :banghead::banghead: I have the 01M auto 4 speed in my '01 Jetta GLS. I had an awful hard shift as you discribed. 2nd to 3rd felt like the engine was coming out . I ended up doing the Throttle Body Alignment and doing a 01M Transmission adaption with VAG-COM. Took it for a ride and wow!!!!! It hasn't shifted this smooth in a while. :laugh:


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

I still have the same issue. I have done the transmission and engine block 060 and 063 adaptation, but I still have that 2-3 gear flare. It's not a hard shift, it's like I shift to neutral for a couple seconds in between 2 and 3, then it shifts just fine. If I'm on the throttle fairly hard, it shifts OK too (not quite as crisp as the other shifts, but acceptable).

Yesterday it was trying very hard to creep forward when sitting at a stoplight, lugging the motor down a few hundred rpm. I did the adaptations again and that symptom went away.

The more I think about it the more I think it's probably a bad TCM but I hate to shotgun parts trying to fix a problem. I think the whole thing is tied into that delayed N282 solenoid command (see the first and third posts to this thread), but can't find anyone who can tell me what commands the TCM to fire N282 to release brake 2 in the transmission.


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

THIS POST MOVED/VACATED BY JACK TO PROTECT CONTENT FALLING INTO THE GAPING HOLE OF THE VORTEX:heart:

IT SEEMS NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaoySOGlZ_U


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

Perhaps there is a mechanical issue in the transmission, but I think I just found the culprit I've been chasing. I ohm'd out the speed sensors, and the G265 intermediate shaft speed sensor is open... infinite resistance. I hoped I'd find a flaky connection in the harness between the TCM and the round connector on the transmission, but the harness checked out perfect (I couldn't induce any kind of intermittent connection).

This makes sense, since the signal from the G265 sensor determines when the clutches close.

The bad news is that it appears I'll be getting really (REALLY) intimate with the guts of my transmission... sigh

Does anyone think that this sensor failing would NOT be the problem I'm chasing?


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

THIS POST MOVED/VACATED BY JACK TO PROTECT CONTENT FALLING INTO THE GAPING HOLE OF THE VORTEX:heart:

IT SEEMS NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaoySOGlZ_U


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

Jack, I really (!) hope you're wrong. The thing that makes me hopeful is that the tranny seems to do everything OTHER than the shift from 2-3 pretty well. The shifts are a little more forceful than they should be I guess, but it sure seems that each gear - including third after the shift "takes" - is fine with no signs of slipping once engaged.

Yeah, maybe I'm clutching (no pun intended) at straws, but with the tranny working so well other than that one shift, I'm hoping that the new sensor will fix that one problem (OK, and soften the other shifts a bit). I guess worst case is I find a used Tiptronic (and replace the shift solenoids with the new ones I just put in my current tranny). Guess I'd better plan for that eventuality, just in case.

It would be nice if there was a way to replace that G265 sensor without dropping the tranny out of the car, but it looks like that's not likely. Guess I'd better start reading up on the procedure for R/Ring a tranny...


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

Well, it appears that I may just be able to change out the G265 intermediate shaft speed sender without dropping the tranny out of the car. It's apparently behind the "back cover", which is the one that accessible through the left fenderwell. This is great news since dropping the tranny involves a whole lot of work and special equipment (namely, the jig that holds the engine in the car when removing the tranny).

A side note - it seems that the VW manuals have the locations of the G265 and G182 sensors reversed, though I haven't been able to find VW's official mea culpa on the subject. This is based on the input of CoolAirVW (a "real expert") who filled me in on the subject. This reversal would have been a whole lot more frustrating had I dropped the tranny and THEN figured out I didn't have to!


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

OK - here's my update.

The good news - the G265 intermediate shaft speed sensor IS behind the back cover (contrary to every VW and Audi reference I've seen!!!), and CAN be changed without dropping the transmission. In fact, it's a relatively simple job (good thing, because I've done it twice now, with possibly one more to go). :banghead:

Happily, the diagnosis (open G265 sensor) was correct, and I found an open sensor when I popped the back cover (working through the left fenderwell). 

The bad news is, I'm still getting the same "no signal" condition from the G265. The first time I got this, I found myself wondering if I'd scooted the sensor up tight against the teeth of the clutch pack it "reads", so I tore it all down again. I was surprised to see about 1/4" of gap between the sensor and the teeth, even with the sensor all the way up (held in by the spring steel "holder"). I removed some material from the plastic base, to allow it to move up some more, thinking that might correct my problem. I got the gap down to about 1mm (1/25") or so. But still no joy - there's a no signal error on my Vagcom (and generic OBDII reader). I read it with the Vagcom "graph" setting, and never saw even a blip from the intermediate engine speed readout... 

Thing is, the sensor I bought was a NOS item - official VW/Audi (or at least it was in a box indicating that). It does read 600 ohms, which is correct. And previously, I'd tested out the wiring from the TCU (TCM) to the transmission, so I doubt that's suspect.

How likely is it to have a sensor that ohms out right, but that doesn't work? There's really not a whole lot to go wrong with one of these... it's a coil and a magnet, after all... (or is there something else in there that can fail?).

Has anyone ever seen a bad sensor kill the TCU? Seems unlikely since the failure mode of the sensor was an open circuit not a short circuit (which I could see overloading the TCU circuitry).

It seems odd to have two separate problems that cause exactly the same symptom, but apparently I do, unless the sensor I bought is bad (which would be the logical best guess). Has anyone else seen anything like this before?


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## RichardSEL (Apr 5, 2010)

Concern is what caused the first G265 sensor coil to go open circuit?
What happens when you do an adaptation with the new sensor connected?
Does this sensor pick up a passing magnetic field? If so, from where?

Havn't had to be this intimate with an auto-box ever. So just throwing out some thoughts
Brad appears to be genned up


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

I've heard that the three identical speed sensors in the 09a transmission are trouble-prone. I can only imagine that the problems with them are mechanical in nature, since the coil has such a high resistance that I can't imagine the TCM providing enough voltage to "burn it out". The resistance of the sending unit is around 600 ohms, which would limit the current flow to about 2/100ths of an amp, even if full 14 volts DC was routed to the sender. OTOH, I'm assuming that resistance is all the pickup coil, but I could be wrong.

The adaptation doesn't do anything to change the situation. I get the 00351 error code, which indicates there's no signal coming in from the R265 sender. I can reset the code and it comes back immediately (literally within a second or two, when connected to my Vagcom while driving).

The sender appears to have its own magnet, and it picks up the teeth from the passing high/reverse clutch pack assembly (basically, the big "bowl" just inside the rear cover of the transmission). http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y512/Diamono/Jetta/IMG_4162_zps5fd09d2b.jpg

That's a photo from another thread - the G265 sender is obvious in the photo (see the blue wires). 

I wonder if I might have just bought a bad sender from an Ebay vendor... maybe I'll cut apart the old one and see if I can see if there's anything that could go wrong with the sender that would disable it but still allow it to read the correct 600 ohms resistance. It appeared to be a brand new VW/Audi part, FWIW.


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

:banghead: Yeah, that sums it up. Today, I pulled the plug on the TCM to see if I could ohm out the new G265 sensor that's still not working. Nope... reads open. Huh? That didn't make sense... Checked the harness (to the round plug on the tranny), and it was fine. I dug out the old "bad" sensor from my bench and tested it, and sure enough, it now read about 600 ohms (like it should). I went ahead and pulled the rear cover off again (for the THIRD time) and see why I believed that the G265 intermediate shaft sensor really WAS the one behind the rear cover... I'd checked all three sensors at the TCM connector, and the other two read 600 ohms, and the G265 read open. I even put the ohmmeter on the sensor behind the rear cover when I popped the back cover, and got an open reading, so I was convinced that the info I had on the REAL location of the G265 sensor was correct. Turns out that it's just really hard to get a good connection to the sensor - I wiggled the probes around some more and sure 'nuff, the new sensor read 600 ohms. I shorted out the contacts at the sensor and verified that it's REALLY connected to pins 9 & 10 at the TCM so it's REALLY the G182 transmission speed sensor that lives behind the rear cover. 

Short story, do NOT believe info to the contrary - the G265 intermediate shaft sensor really IS behind the bellhousing, and requires dropping and splitting the tranny to replace. The G182 sensor OTOH is a relative piece of cake to replace, being behind the back cover. At this point, I can only hope my G182 fails in the future so I can use all this practice to good effect! :laugh:

So... I'm about halfway through pulling my tranny out now. Got stopped dead by the need for 12mm and 14mm triple square driver bits. They'll be in at O'Reilleys tomorrow at about 4:00pm. I guess I'll also flip the tranny over and reassemble the back cover OUT of the car (since it'll be easier to keep everything lined up that way). 

I'm sorry for all the confusion - I'd gotten some bad info, and passed it along after a mistaken reading seemed to validate it. Bottom line - believe the VW manuals. Don't believe my previous post or other posts that locate the sensors differently than the VW manuals.


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## diamono (Apr 26, 2008)

habbyguy said:


> I put my VCDS tool into 02A Auto Transmission mode, then went to "Advanced Measuring Values", and selected "Condition of Solenoid Valves 004-4".


I have a registered version of VCDS Lite, so maybe a silly question, but how do you choose Advanced Measuring Values? I'd like to check the solenoid functions on my 09a, but only get 8 choices through the Measuring Blocks. The only choice for anything "Advanced" is not available.


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

I don't have VCDS Lite, and even my "full copy" isn't available to me right now due to the meltdown of my wife's laptop (grrrrrr)... but the menu structure to get to the advanced values in the full version is pretty obvious, so I can only suggest that it's not available in the Lite version.

Sorry I can't offer any more specifics right now...


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## diamono (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks habbyguy. I've got an inquiry into Ross-Tech and I'll see what they have to say. 

BTW, did you get the sensor replaced in the tranny and back in? I've got an 03' Jetta and I think I may have an issue with solenoid 92 on an 09a and I was curious to see what kind of readings I may get.


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## habbyguy (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi, diamono... sorry for the late reply. Lots of traveling and visitors (and I sold the VW today, too). 

Yes, I got the sensor in (after dropping the tranny and splitting the case, of course). It's shifted great since then. I replaced the CV axles, LCAs and ball joints, and a host of other little stuff and sold the car for a good price (though a whole lot less than you could buy the typical wagon and bring it up to that spec). The car carried us through a 7,000 mile road trip, and a lot of local / regional miles, and performed like a champ the whole time (after the tranny fix). An honest 27 mpg mostly at 80mph, and including the stop and go and around-town driving.


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

That lucky you should buy a power ball ticket.

Don't forget me when you win!


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## Miigotu (Feb 23, 2015)

Uwe said:


> ; 1xxxxxxx - Solenoid Valve 4 (N91)
> ; x1xxxxxx - Solenoid Shift Lock
> ; xx1xxxxx - Solenoid Valve 9 (N282)
> ; xxx1xxxx - Solenoid Valve 8 (N281)
> ...


Any way you could tell me what each gear's bitset should look like when engaged? I have a log of block 004 on my 09a that is having trouble shifting past 2nd, even after changing all of the solenoids.. Just hoping the log can shed some light on it.


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