# Volkswagen Unveils 2012 North American Passat



## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

After years of waiting to see what Volkswagen would call their new U.S. built mid-size sedan we finally have an answer - Passat. This means there will be a European-market specific Passat and a North American-market specific Passat. Ours will be bigger and sold at a lower price point to compete with the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and other mid-size offerings while Germany (and the rest of Europe) will continue on with the new facelifted Passat that was introduced this past September at the Paris Auto Show... 

*FULL STORY AND PHOTOS...* 

*Show Gallery*


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## akuska (Sep 1, 2005)

Looks good, though I question the decision to go with the 170hp I-5 instead of the 2.0T. Expect that to be the Passat's version of the "Jetta Base." That engine won't cut it with the Accord and Camry crowd. The V6 looks up to snuff. They could use a more powerful TDI.

However, if you are right, they got the interior right with this one. Now can they fix the Jetta?


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## Miro VR6 (Oct 29, 2001)

The new Camry is finally here!!


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## rob454 (Sep 18, 2009)

This all seems reversed now. They got the interior right but the exterior looks like a mid 90's car.:facepalm:


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## randy (Feb 18, 1999)

I'm glad VWofA kept the Passat name here in USA. Car looks better in video than pics.

Interested in how the base model looks with smaller wheels.

But will it be enough to whoop the Sonata?


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## Stevesvws (Apr 12, 2004)

yup boorrring on the outside. looks like a damn camry. disappointed. Yet another reason to keep my 04.


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## jvonn (Nov 24, 2010)

am i the only bothered by the side and rear rubstrip and none on the front to balance it out?


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## manual_tranny (Jan 7, 2011)

It could be a ford taurus maybe...


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## randy (Feb 18, 1999)

Euro version:









vs America's:


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## randy (Feb 18, 1999)

Quite attractive from the back:

America's version:









Euro version:


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## Doberman (Oct 2, 2001)

*Big Jetta, boring. Is this the same company than designed the CC?*

Hooray for VWoA for having the sense to name the NMS the Passat. I'm glad they didnt make the same mistake as Ford did when they renamed the Taurus the 500. Too bad VW did not learn from Ford when they made the 500 a boring large version of the Passat B5. Ford has since redesigned the Taurus into a slick (almost sporty) looking large sedan with way more style than an Avalon. Boy am I glad I have a 2007 Passat wagon. Normally I crave the next gen Passat. Although this one is bigger, its base engine has less HP and it quite frankly looks like a big Jetta. Last thing I want is for someone to confuse my larger (more expensive) VW with a smaller, cheaper model.

I work near VWoA headquarters in Herndon, VA. I was fortunate enough to see the new 2009 CC when it was on its way to the headquarters lobby. I was blown away at how beautiful, stylish and sporty it was. I honestly like it better than a A4. It is hard for me to believe that the 2012 Passat came from the same company. I looks like a cross between an Accord and Avalon. Snoozeville. Kudos to Hyundai for giving their latest Sonata real style. Maybe too much for some but they are selling better than their previous boxy model (which new Jetta reminds me of).

Hopefully the 2012 Passat wagon will look better. I really would like to see VWoA make a 6 or 7 passenger crossover from the 2012 Passat body. Not unlike the way they stretched and raised the roof on a Golf to make the Tiguan. I don't care what they call it but that is what needed instead of a rebaged Chrysler minivan. Otherwise the next car I get may be a Ford Flex or 2011 Explorer.


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## ANEWMadrid (Dec 28, 2010)

*B5 was the best*

I still thing the B5 2000 Passat looks the best.
What happened to the GLi? I want to see that one.


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## XenoLlama (Sep 23, 2002)

*VR6 not dead?*

I thought the VR6 was dead worldwide in the VW lineup? Any info on where this one (engine) is being built?


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## VR6bangin (Mar 26, 2009)

outside is decent except from the front it deff looks like a taurs/fusion. from the side its pretty sex, could use some fine tuneing on the ass though but overall not as bad as i feared. interior is dead on (thank goodness) but deff agree on the 2.0t over I-5, would have made more sence. but compared to the new jetta this VWoA made car is starting to put my concerns of american based vw's at ease. this passat embodies the whole getting more than you pay for ideal thats made VW a big as it has become over the past 20 years. but i personaly think they should have come up with another name plate. i mean technicaly its not a passat, its the nms. if you can see where im comming from on that.

but the vr has been active in the CC since it hit the sales floor, just thats all its been in, and i think the v6 tdi is accualy a vr too? but not 100% on that

as tim and erik say... "Great Job!"


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## gingerly (May 15, 2006)

Geeze... what an embarrassment. The CC, new Golf/GTI, the Jetta Sportwagen, all GREAT looking cars but the new Jetta and Passat have sucked all the life out of the design. They have to be the most boring cars VW has ever made. I have ZERO hope of talking my wife into getting EITHER of them. Looks like it's going to be a 2010 Passat or Jetta Sportwagen at this point. Or an Audi.


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## stuckey (Oct 12, 2003)

The SEL version in the video looks way better than the stock photos do. With bigger wheels and some sunlight to smooth out the lines, it doesn't look bad.

I'm still not convinced that VW's new strategy to go mainstream with blander designs is their ideal solution. They have a nice niche if they improve quality and keep prices down. Improved quality is where they could pick up more customers and keep the VW community happy. I wonder how many units they have to sell to make this work?

The lack of a 2.0T option will probably be the deal killer for me. Here's to hoping the Jetta GLI with IRS, a 2.0T, and hopefully improved looks and interior will be the winner.


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## Vettes Volvos and VWs (Mar 6, 2006)

VWoA is not planning on offering a 4motion version at this time!!!!!!! Have they fallin' into the same crowd as Lindsay Lohan and started smoking crack. If this is to remain a permanent plan I guarentee they will loose a large customer base. Is this VaGs way of forcing consumers who want AWD towards their more prestigious Audi line?


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## vwgti303 (Jan 19, 2003)

Wow Volkswagen! You took the Jetta and made it bigger! How much did that genius cost you? It's not outright ugly but it's so uninspired. I really expected more, but since the American market doesn't, that's who you catered too


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## borellsoffun (May 26, 2004)

No mention if a wagon is coming.
Looks good except for the rear end which looks too Japanese.


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## 85GTI (Dec 19, 2000)

I think it is good enough for them to sell. There will surely be special versions eventually that will have spruced up styling.

BTW is there going to be a wagon?


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## gingerly (May 15, 2006)

stuckey said:


> The lack of a 2.0T option will probably be the deal killer for me.


Right...forgot to mention that. It's their BEST engine! Where is it?!?!?! Oh the humanity! Is this the end of the roll that they've been on since '05?


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## Lucky XIII (Dec 12, 2010)

call me oldschool, but I just can't get into the looks of the newer [exceptions of course here and there] vw's; am I the only one?


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

85GTI said:


> BTW is there going to be a wagon?


x3


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## jennythejetta (Aug 21, 2005)

Dare I say, the side and 3/4 rear angle are Lexus-esque in its fluid tasteful lines. The front, however, screams Cadillac Catera. I think its the grill...


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## Michael T Borelli (Dec 29, 2000)

I just threw up in mouth. I am appalled at what vw has come to. I am going out to my garage to stare at my 64 bug and 71 ghia and remember the gold old days.


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## vdubjettaman (Mar 31, 2004)

It definitely will be mistaken for a Jetta to the masses. Yes there are differences, but the front is damn close to the same! And actually looks more like an Accord than anything else to me. The interior is nice, but overall the car is safe. It has lost any style that the B6 had, and without the 2.0T, it may feel a but sluggish. Did I miss the specs anywhere? Someone know the weight yet?


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## wky (Feb 18, 1999)

Gads, video is just as boring as this car. Good luck VW.


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## DaWolfsburg (Sep 12, 2002)

The funniest thing to me is that is has a push button start and an analog clock...









:facepalm:


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## vw87tech (Feb 3, 2007)

my 85 golf and 80 rabbit had an analog clock must be retro or something


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## 87CabrioSK (May 27, 2010)

Quite nice overall. Looks like a new Taurus SHO.


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## Smoltz (Sep 6, 2002)

Dear VW:

BRING AWD!

-Adam


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## Late Apex (Jan 28, 2007)

Looks boring on the outside :thumbdown:

Forget about the accord or camry. The new benchmark, in terms of exterior aesthetics, is the sonata.


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## 2k4golfgen4 (Mar 23, 2008)

That "analog" clock is linked to a digital controller . 



DaWolfsburg said:


> The funniest thing to me is that is has a push button start and an analog clock...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## GEN XER (Jun 5, 2010)

randy said:


> Quite attractive from the back:
> 
> America's version:
> 
> ...


American version has hints of the CC (side view) Audi A4 (rear) and Jetta (Front) with the stance of a Camry or Avalon. It is what it is.

The Euro version looks like the Phaeton (rear)

After watching the video the front is definitely Camry/ Avalon looking.


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## Toby16custom (May 16, 2006)

So it's a Jetta with some options+a 6 cyl in case your really loving the idea? 

VW your disappointing me


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## a2lowvw (Dec 17, 2000)

so far i am gonna say un-impressed. 

passat history in the us

b3 = ugly
b4 = slightly better
b5 = major improvements
b5.5 = win
b6 = win
new b7? us spec passat :facepalm: i have a feeling when the lease is up on our tdi we will be shopping other brands


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## bigfatgeek (Feb 5, 2005)

Yawn, what a boring-looking car. Paint it beige and it'll be confused with the transportation appliances from Japan. First the new Jetta, now this. Walter D'Silva is slipping.


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## B5V (Apr 1, 2000)

Granted the 2.0T is kaput on this NMS Passat..the TDI would be the dealmaker engine for me (should I part my 2000 B5 1.8T Variant for this NMS). I need to hold off a year or two to work the kinks out on this new model...wish there would be wagon version though.

Either this or I might go back to Japanese next time (got burned with VW high maintenance)..the Kizashi is a likely candidate (hope it gets a VW licensed engine though).


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## krado94 (Apr 22, 2001)

Volkswagen press release said:


> Trim levels will be offered in S, SE and SEL configurations.



Am I the only that thinks this sound very Ford Taurus??? If I wanted an american car that is what I would buy. I think VW isn't going in the wrong direction and are going to lose alot of sales to other makes!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead: After owning over 20 VW's, I'm going to seriously look at other makes when I'm ready.


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## garethusa (Jan 13, 2003)

actually it looks like a very decent car.

everyone hated the new jetta and well it really is a nice car as well. however, i hope the doors on the new passat won't feel too light as they did on the new jetta. 

overall, as someone said above, if they can prove their reliability has improved and customer satisfaction at the dealership service dept., then this could be a win situation.

i would rather drive this new passat than the camry or accord. 

it's exciting that they also decided to include TDI version from the get go. a bit disappointing that it is the same TDI engine of the jetta but otherwise, great that the option is there.
:thumbup:


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## mexglx (Apr 22, 2003)

Glad to see the TDi offered. Would love to swap my '07 3.6 wagen for a 2013 TDi wagen if they offer it. Though I love my VR6, I'd like to get 40+ on the hwy. I average 22 all around now, mostly urban driving. Wagen PLEAZZZZZ!:laugh:


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## randomkoreanguy (Jul 20, 2002)

It's pretty bland and anonymous, but expecting an excited reaction from the unveiling of a midsize family sedan is ambitious. The interior looks pretty decent and as has been stated, it does look better in the video than in the pictures. Given the target that they're going for with this car (generic middle class families), I think it has the potential to win people over. I don't see many enthusiasts really going for one, but if VW has successfully played up their strengths (which should be evident once the automotive journalists start testing out production models), I don't see why it can't sell decently. And it does strongly resemble the Euro Passat from the front (though not at all from the rear). I dislike the decision to put the license plate on the trunk lid, though. It gives it too strong a resemblance to the Jetta. Having it on the bumper instead (like the Euro Passat and Phaeton) would've been more attractive and upscale.


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## sbachmeier (Mar 2, 1999)

*OK, not bad...*

Well, as a former B5 (and now a B6) Passat owner, my initial impression from the photos is: I'm not offended -- so that's a good sign! Love the look from the rear. Like the Hofmeister kink in the window behind the C-pillar (though BMW might be calling about that). Not so sure I like the headlight treatment just yet, but it could grow on me -- and as is often the case, how they look in person (and how they *function*) are more important.

I'm really glad they kept the Passat moniker. I think it's a well-respected name, and it keeps model continuity here in the US. Thank you for keeping bodyside moldings along the doors (for parking lot door ding protection)! I hate the recent trend of totally "naked" doors without any protection. Not practical in the real world. Had I bought a Jetta SportWagon TDI like I thought I was going to, the factory door moldings would have been the first thing I would have added.

Really, a TDI Passat? With a manual? Where the hell was this model in the US when I really wanted it a few years ago? Oh well. I really like my TSI for now.

Yes, there's certainly some signs of de-contenting compared to the present Passat. Lever-operated handbrake (!)...no hydraulic struts to hold the hood open (geez...how much money did you save there, VW??)...no rear seat heat/AC ducts...old_school trunk hinges...but all in all, if it helps get them to a good price point, these items should not be show-stoppers. Besides, if history repeats itself, as the US Passat gets deeper into its build lifecycle, things that were initially de-contented may well find their way back into the car...so no need to cry foul just yet.

Now, VWoA, let's see a Wagon version!


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## 16vsilverstreak (Dec 5, 2001)

Boring, the B5.5 looks better


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## amerikanzero (Jun 6, 2004)

Wow. That is one ugly car.
Get it through your head VW: you can't market beige.

Correction: Ugly AND bland.
I'm pretty sure it's not Toyota's styling that people like...
VW, I am disappoint.


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## RIP-335 (Nov 26, 2009)

It's ok, but I am batting the chevy Malibu b-pillar. Many with less chrome and a R-package then :thumbup:


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

In full color:


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

a2lowvw said:


> so far i am gonna say un-impressed.
> 
> passat history in the us
> 
> ...


You didn't like the B1 Dasher or the B2 Quantum?

Anyway, I think the new NMS Passat is bang-on target as the volume model for the US, competing against Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion et al. Clean styling, nice interior, lots of room and a competitive price. Exactly what VW needs to be a volume player in the US market.

If you want more a upscale European sedan -- or 2.0T, or 4motion -- without switching to Audi, there is always the Passat CC. Not every model should be targeted at the same buyers.


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

feels_road said:


> In full color:


Wow -- they will actually have un-Camry, un-Accord colours -- not just silver, beige and grey metallic. The car looks much better in the blue metallic than in silver.


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

I love all the armchair quaterbacking going on here. VW has spent tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of man-hours in development, engineering, customer focus groups, deconstructing competitors' products, poring over financial trends, and investing millions of dollars on a vehicle meant to turn its fortunes around in a most competitive market. And some yahoos here spend less time than it takes to sneeze to say, "I don't like it" without much thought about the _goal _of this car. :laugh:

Having said that, some good opinions and thoughts have been brought forth. But face it, gang, VW is _not _interested in rehashing the past, or coddling its present or former buyers... They are intent on forging a new future. The new Passat is headed in the right direction. I think it will be a _huge _hit for VW. Tell you what: Let's agree to meet right back here three years from today, and then we can compare notes on how good a vehicle the Passat is, from a marketing and sales point of view... :wave:

This ain't no Phaeton, guys [and gals]... It's no GTI... it's a _mainstream product_ meant to bump up sales and build up the brand. Nothing more...


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## ATC98092 (Feb 22, 2006)

*I'm liking it*

Now I could live with either of those colors.:thumbup:

I will wait until I can actually see it in person, but so far I like what I see. Perhaps I'm the target market? 

I want to see the full option list, but so far they've listed almost everything I want: TDI (YES!), dual zone AC, power seats, RNS-510. No mention of HID headlights or LED taillights, but they aren't deal breakers.

If they are targeting 20k as a starting price, i would expect my equiped level would be at 30 or a little more. Since I payed 27k for my 06 Jetta 2.5 pkg 2, I wouldn't hesitate. Love driving my daughter's 09 Jetta TDI, and really want that engine in my car.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

Could be worse I guess. At least the 2.5L and TDI versions can be bought with a manual tranny. 

Glad to see that the hand brake has been brought back.

Hopefully, VW can sell a lot of them and the 2.5L tuners are busy developing turbo upgrades.


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## dr. pimento (Nov 22, 2006)

What about the wagon? No wagon; no sale.

I've been helping my Dad shop for a replacement to his B6 Wagon; If VW doesn't step up, he'll probably get an Outback. It's okay, but it's not a VW.


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## Wagon05 (Feb 7, 2005)

yep - need Diesel Wagon or no deal


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## G60 dude (Oct 3, 2001)

Boring. It really is a shame. The interesting thing is up to this point, VW had the edge in styling over Toyota and Honda. Now it looks like every other car on the road. I guess all car manufacturers do have their cycles.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

No more projector headlights?


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## ghostofabel (Jan 11, 2011)

For those complaining that the B5 and B6 Passats are much nicer than the new 2012 Passat: 

Do you have any idea how much Passat sales dropped off in the last few years? VW considers the B5 and B6 Passats an epic failure. It has been the lowest selling VW non-SUV for years. Americans simply weren't willing to pay for it, and as much as many VW enthusiasts hate the new direction VW is going in the US (with the 2011 Jetta and 2012 Passat), they have to make cars Americans will buy. And what midsize sedans are Americans buying? The Accord and Camry. So, VW made a better and cheaper version of the Accord and Camry. Many VW enthusiasts seem to be content with VW holding only a niche market in the US, but VW isn't content with that, and if you were on the board of directors for VW, you wouldn't be either. 

It's actually a smart move: build a better, cheaper version of the car Americans are already buying. Those who want something a bit more luxurious/stylish can go with the CC. The VW line-up is actually beginning to offer something for everyone in the US.


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## ghostofabel (Jan 11, 2011)

*Passat Wagon*

In 2009 and 2010, the Passat Wagon only sold around 2,000 units/year in the US, compared to the around 10,000 units/year for the Passat sedan, and around 20,000 units/year for the Jetta SportWagen. Americans simply weren't buying the Passat Wagon, so VW stopped making it for the US. If Americans want a car they should put their money where their mouths are.


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## TCM GLX (Jan 2, 2000)

I freakin love it, looks classy. Reminds me of the Genesis, or like a baby a8, and the TDI is a huge win. I can picture that thing with a set of nice sporty 19s or 20s, and a slight drop, and people will be changing their tune I am sure.


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## StuntRabbit (Jun 24, 2007)

From an enthusiast standpoint I dont like it. But, if producing this allows for the Golf R and other platforms to thrive then so be it.

I'm glad I'm not a huge Passat fan or in the market for one, because I would be dissapointed with what looks like a Jetta that swallowed a Camry. Kind of like the Tiguan that swallowed a Chrysler Town and Country, this force fed american market vehicle will be here to stay.

I'm not in the market for a Passat, so my GTI will do just fine. 

It is unfortunate that VW spent all that money in Tennessee to produce this car...


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## a2lowvw (Dec 17, 2000)

tomh009 said:


> You didn't like the B1 Dasher or the B2 Quantum?
> 
> Anyway, I think the new NMS Passat is bang-on target as the volume model for the US, competing against Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion et al. Clean styling, nice interior, lots of room and a competitive price. Exactly what VW needs to be a volume player in the US market.
> 
> If you want more a upscale European sedan -- or 2.0T, or 4motion -- without switching to Audi, there is always the Passat CC. Not every model should be targeted at the same buyers.



i was simply refering to the "passat" named cars not just the series platform. 

for all that it is the cc is a great car but being limited to just 4 seats is a deal breaker for us. With a child seat in the back it limits us to 1 more passenger, most times that would suffice but we do have times where we need to cram 2 people in the back of our jetta. 

the target with this new passat isn't customer retention it is trying tempt more people to give vw a try. sales goals for vw are pretty impressive and to reach them they will need to find a car that appeals to a large mass of people. While the pictures may not make us want to buy one the driving experiance may....


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

You dont have to buy it if you dont like it. stop complaining ppl.
VW wants to become the worlds largest automaker & highest in sales. 
Euro flavored offerings dont fit the American market.( were fat, need cup holder & want durable plastic crap for our kids to crawl on & spill their big gulps.
Americans want a plush ride, our roads suck & firm suspensions remind us how fat we are. 
the euro built cars cost more to make.
----
building stateside is a great long-term investment. 
it provides jobs we Americans need
it allows cars to built cheaper, sold for less
selling quantities to the masses is good for the company & thats good for you, so they can take chances on things like the R models, CC, Scirocco
bigger cars mean the smaller ones disappear, they will eventually need a new model replacement, like a Polo
----
Changing names like the MK5 Rabbit was a mistake, Keeping the Passat name was a good decision
AWD for 20K in a Mid size? c'mon ppl. subbie cant do it & suzuki cant do it, no one can. Buy an Audi if you want quattro (although it may come in time). 
VW never releases a new generation w/ full options or trim. Never has! the last few yrs of ea generation will be the best. (ie 83/4 GTI, 91-92 GTI/GLI, 93/94 Corrado, 87/88 Rocco, B5.5, 97/98 DE GTI/GLX, 04/5 GLI, R32. ) it keeps the models fresh, keeps the sales going, keeps peoples memories of past generations excited.*it lets them work the bugs out so dont expect AWD & a wagon in the 1st model yr.
---
wheels, a nice drop, maybe a small trunk spoiler, will do wonders for this car.
Im sure the aftermarket wil bring a new grill, HL's & front spoiler.
anyone else super excited about the TDI milage?
Anyone else shocked this model is offered in a 5 speed & would love it w/ a TDI?
It starts @ 20K! It still has German engineering! (build quality & interior) 
No, its not a euro saloon M5, its a 20K VW w/ some great features. see the big picture people. 



My next new car purchase will likely be in about 1 yr. We are considering the Tiguan, CC, a Mini Clubman/Countryman, a subie wagon or pre-owned S4/A4 sport line.
- We want fun, nice, milage, preferably manual, daily driver.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

So essentially they killed the Passat...

No 4WD , no NA forced induction motor.

I guess Jamie you said it right when they are competing against the camry. At least they didnt kill the VR though


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## Nikolai_Petroff (Feb 10, 2010)

amerikanzero said:


> Wow. That is one ugly car.
> Get it through your head VW: you can't market beige.
> 
> Correction: Ugly AND bland.
> ...


In Europe VW = Beige. It'e the GM of Europe.

I like the US Passat. It's not wildly overpriced as the Euro version. Does what it's supposed to.


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## Nikolai_Petroff (Feb 10, 2010)

INA said:


> So essentially they killed the Passat...
> 
> No 4WD , no NA forced induction motor.
> 
> I guess Jamie you said it right when they are competing against the camry. At least they didnt kill the VR though


Nobody and I mean NOBODY buys them in the World. 90% of Passats sold in Europe go to fleets and have the smallest TDI engine. People who actually like to drive won't get a VW anyway. They would stretch to a 3 series.


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## Hitman23 (Mar 22, 2001)

*Passat*

Bang on pal! And ghostofabel makes some excellent points as well with the car sales figures.

20k for a car that used to start at 28k...big difference. Wonder what the Passat VR6 will start at....26k?

Oh and the topic of Wagons, why does VWofA call it the Jetta Sportwagen in the US and the Golf Wagon in Canada? It's the same car.




CorradoMagic said:


> You dont have to buy it if you dont like it. stop complaining ppl.
> VW wants to become the worlds largest automaker & highest in sales.
> Euro flavored offerings dont fit the American market.( were fat, need cup holder & want durable plastic crap for our kids to crawl on & spill their big gulps.
> Americans want a plush ride, our roads suck & firm suspensions remind us how fat we are.
> ...


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## AUDITRANCE (Feb 10, 2003)

they should have called it NMJ for new mid sized jetta. vw has been pretty disappointing lately with their stick on body kits and poor engine choices. hope they make some solid sporty models soon to keep the enthusiasts around.


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## JimH (Dec 22, 1999)

*winner*

This new Passat looks good. Can't wait to see it in person. Too bad no V6 stick, but almost nobody offers that anymore. A Jetta SE starts @ $18,195, has dual front, F&R head curtain & front side impact air bags, AC, heated seats/mirrors, power windows & locks. The TDI Jetta starts @ $22,995. Thats $4,800 more but you get a moonroof, alloy wheels and a better stereo with CD changer. I believe the Ipod interface is also in there. The GLI may then be $24K. Guessing again, the new Passat TDI would be about $25K and may also have more content than the 2.5 equipped model. Do we dare hope for a V6 to come in around $28 to $30K??


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## Snooters (Sep 13, 2003)

I feel like I'm in the market for this to replace my cramped GLI, but I'm not feeling these engine and transmission options.


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## headsup7up (Nov 26, 2008)

VW is doing an awful job with these new cars. the Jetta and Passat are horrible. :facepalm::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## wuzilla (Oct 14, 2001)

Well said! 

Toyota does a pretty good job at selling cars - I wonder if they listen to everything the "enthusiasts" tell them. Frankly, if I were here to make money instead of being mister popular, I think that's be a good example to follow. 




CorradoMagic said:


> You dont have to buy it if you dont like it. stop complaining ppl.
> VW wants to become the worlds largest automaker & highest in sales.
> Euro flavored offerings dont fit the American market.( were fat, need cup holder & want durable plastic crap for our kids to crawl on & spill their big gulps.
> Americans want a plush ride, our roads suck & firm suspensions remind us how fat we are.
> ...


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## ghostofabel (Jan 11, 2011)

*SportWagen (US) vs. Golf Wagon (Canada)*

You're right, Hitman23, the US Jetta SportWagen and Canadian Golf Wagon are exactly the same vehicle (both have 2.5 gas and 2.0 TDI trims; the US 2.5 S and SE trims are called Trendline and Comfortline in Canada). VW Canada used to call it the Jetta Wagon, but in 2009 switched to Golf Wagon. I'm thinking maybe the Golf name has better reception in Canada than the US. 

It actually makes more sense to call it the Golf Wagon (rather than Jetta Wagon or Jetta SportWagen), since it's much more similar to the Golf than the Jetta, now that the Jetta has been redesigned. The Jetta has sold more than triple the amount of any other model VW model in the US over the past 15 years-- probably why VWoA thought it would be beneficial to keep the Jetta name around with the SportWagen. Why Jetta SPORTwagen, though, instead of just Jetta Wagon? Who knows... 



Hitman23 said:


> Bang on pal! And ghostofabel makes some excellent points as well with the car sales figures.
> 
> 20k for a car that used to start at 28k...big difference. Wonder what the Passat VR6 will start at....26k?
> 
> Oh and the topic of Wagons, why does VWofA call it the Jetta Sportwagen in the US and the Golf Wagon in Canada? It's the same car.


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## goacom (Mar 3, 1999)

While the B6 was a sales failure, the B5/5.5 was not. At its peak, it was selling close to 100K units a year. However the strategy of competing with the lowest common denominator may make sense. The only issue is whether the new car will be competitive with the soon to be newer offerings from Honda and Toyota. The 2.5 is probably equivalent to the current engines in the Camry and Accord, but can we assume that their newer cars will not raise the bar? What about the new DI engines being offered by Hyundai/Kia. They have better fuel economy and better performance. 



ghostofabel said:


> For those complaining that the B5 and B6 Passats are much nicer than the new 2012 Passat:
> 
> Do you have any idea how much Passat sales dropped off in the last few years? VW considers the B5 and B6 Passats an epic failure. It has been the lowest selling VW non-SUV for years. Americans simply weren't willing to pay for it, and as much as many VW enthusiasts hate the new direction VW is going in the US (with the 2011 Jetta and 2012 Passat), they have to make cars Americans will buy. And what midsize sedans are Americans buying? The Accord and Camry. So, VW made a better and cheaper version of the Accord and Camry. Many VW enthusiasts seem to be content with VW holding only a niche market in the US, but VW isn't content with that, and if you were on the board of directors for VW, you wouldn't be either.
> 
> It's actually a smart move: build a better, cheaper version of the car Americans are already buying. Those who want something a bit more luxurious/stylish can go with the CC. The VW line-up is actually beginning to offer something for everyone in the US.


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

B5Speedo said:


> At least the 2.5L and TDI versions can be bought with a manual tranny.


Both the B6 and the CC were at one tome available with a 2.0T and a manual tranny, but only if you bought the low-line version of the car. However, if you wanted any of the options in the car that require a higher-line "package", that package also added an automatic trans, so there was no way to get either of these cars "Well equipped" with a manual trans. Let's hope VW doesn't repeat that here.

Then again, I'm not sure it's possible to get this Passat "Well equipped" at all. Apparently there there is no option for HID headlights at any price. :screwy:

-Uwe-


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## Doberman (Oct 2, 2001)

*2012 Passat: Good for VWoA, OK for enthusiast*

I agree that the new Passat will be good for VW. Building "poor-man's" Audi's for US german engineering enthusiasts for the last 5 years was a bit of a niche as the sales figures showed. I got my first 2002 Passat wagon after attending a BMW 3 series driving event. I wanted a BMW but could only afford a VW. Happy with the value and driving experience, all I and my family have bought is VW/Audi's since. Have they been the most reliable?, no. Faced with an expensive repair on her 2.0T 2006 Passat, traded it for a 2010 Jetta 2.5. VW paid a lot of warranty repairs on the 2.0T so I can understand why its not in the new Passat.

I was in the VW Alpha Driver program which lent me a brand new 2006 Passat for a day when it came out. I enjoyed the car so much I took the day off to simply drive it. It drew attention too. People thought it was the new Mercedes or Audi. After that day I HAD to own one. Bigger size, style, and the 2.0T was why I traded my 2002 wagon for a 2007. The 2012 elicits no such emotion from me. Quite frankly, I want a car that looks like an expensive German sedan not a Camcord.

Built for Americans not necessarily enthusiast:


Bigger (much longer wheelbase than B6 = better highway ride for long American Interstate drives)
Better value = lower sticker price + bigger size (simple American math)
Bigger 2.5 engine (# cylinders and displacement are more important than HP to Americans)
Accord style (A bit too angular for my German taste but perhaps not Americans who have made Accord one of the top 3 selling sedan for decades)
Built in American (All of the top selling sedans are domestically produced)
No more Passat wagon (Americans prefer the term SUV, CUV, or Van. Enthusiast know that European wagons are THE ultimate SPORT Utility Vehicle):thumbup:


Bottom line is that enthusiast who want an affordable, German-made, mid-sized sports sedan should think "CC"
Americans who want an affordable, German-engineered, mid-sized sedan should think "Passat"


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## MOTIONblur (Apr 16, 2004)

blahhh.......... is this the very best vw design could do? really?
where is Mr DaSilva's influence in this? Looks to me like another marketing led effort.
Not as bad as the pontiac asstec but same formula. Its just a scaled up jetta.
I was so looking forward to seeing VW raising the bar on car design with this product.
Safety first I guess is the internal tag line. Atleast the Golf R will be a nice sight to see in a
growing sea of mundane. :thumbdown::facepalm:


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

OK, here are the US sales figures for B5/B5.5 Passat wagons by year:

1998 - 6
1999 - 644
2000 - 14386
2001 - 14748
2002 - 21356
2003 - 27007
2004 - 18659
2005 - 8906


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## 85GTI (Dec 19, 2000)

CorradoMagic said:


> . . . want durable plastic crap for our kids to crawl on & spill their big gulps.


I think you meant to say "our fat kids"


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## JohnTT (Dec 7, 2001)

:thumbup::thumbup:VW will do very well with the new Passat. I do like that it is not over styled to the point that it will look silly after 2 years. Also, it is great to see that so many jobs have been created. Why so many negative comments? Does a midsize sedan really need to be groundbreaking? Can't wait order my TDI SEL.


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## ghostofabel (Jan 11, 2011)

The B5 Passat was never "selling close to 100K units a year." Below are the Passat Sedan's US sales figures. Notice the steady drop in sales since its peak in 2001. This drop in sales occurred long before the B6's arrived in 2005-2006. From 2001 to 2010 the Passat Sedan dropped from around 77,000 units/year to around 10,000 units/year. And we wonder why VWoA thought a completely redesigned Passat was necessary? Say what you will about the new design (I personally don't like it either), but it's idiotic to suggest VWoA should return to the B5/B6. 

1995 - 11805
1996 - 15773
1997 - 13651
1998 - 33640
1999 - 58385
2000 - 65997
2001 - 77523
2002 - 75499
2003 - 59320
2004 - 52540
2005 - 39256
2006 - 45132
2007 - 30546
2008 - 24375
2009 - 8824
2010 - 10168

Sure, the Camry and Accord will likely also raise the bar in 2012, but VW has to get in the game at some point. And although Kia and Hyundai have recentlty improved significantly, time can only tell if their reliabilty and longevity can match VW's. 



goacom said:


> While the B6 was a sales failure, the B5/5.5 was not. At its peak, it was selling close to 100K units a year. However the strategy of competing with the lowest common denominator may make sense. The only issue is whether the new car will be competitive with the soon to be newer offerings from Honda and Toyota. The 2.5 is probably equivalent to the current engines in the Camry and Accord, but can we assume that their newer cars will not raise the bar? What about the new DI engines being offered by Hyundai/Kia. They have better fuel economy and better performance.


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## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

Ford called, they want their Taurus back.

Is this what VWoA thinks we want state side? What a complete swing and a miss. This is why we can't have nice things like the new scirocco :banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## sbachmeier (Mar 2, 1999)

Seems to me that it wasn't that long ago when people were posting on some of these very forums, b*tching and wailing about VW's move upmarket and the attendant rise in prices of the models. "Why can't I just get a basic Golf/Jetta/Passat with manual windows and no air conditioning? What happened to VW, 'The People's Car'?"

Well, it would appear that 'The People's Car' is coming back. I think that many People will probably buy them. That's good for VW. Then VW can still build (and occasionally provide) us lunatic fringe VW enthusiasts some of the juicy models too. If we ask nicely. Golf R, anyone?

No, I probably won't be first in line to trade my B6 Passat Wagon for a Chattanooga Passat Wagon (like they'd ever build one here in the US)...but I still hope that the new US Passat does well for the sake of VW.


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

ghostofabel said:


> The B5 Passat was never "selling close to 100K units a year." Be


96k in 2002 seems close to 100k to me (sedan + wagon).

Hyundai called and want the previous generation Sonata back. 

The B5 was great for us.
The B5.5 is great for us.
We won't be in a VW next - they don't want their current customers. They want shiny new customers that they expect to pull away from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai. Good luck with that .


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## NickM (Oct 20, 2001)

Speaking of Hyundai, I never thought I'd see the day when I'd look at them for great styling and a 2.0T.

Somebody tell me why I'd buy this over an Accord, Camry or Sonata?...they already have great styling, great prices and a long established history of cheap to buy, cheap to maintain and super reliable. the also have a dealer network that isn't incompetent. TDI is nice (I own two of them), but nobody but enthusiasts care about diesels..everyone in this part of the world wants a hybrid.


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## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

akuska said:


> Looks good, though I question the decision to go with the 170hp I-5 instead of the 2.0T. Expect that to be the Passat's version of the "Jetta Base." That engine won't cut it with the Accord and Camry crowd.


What exactly in uncompetitive about the VW 2.5? On that same token the Accord won't cut it with its measly 5 speed automatic. 


*2012 Passat * 

2.5 I-5 

[email protected] 
177ft/[email protected] 

*2011 Camry*

2.5 I-4

[email protected] RPM
167lb/[email protected]

*2011 Accord*

2.4 I-4

[email protected]
161lb/[email protected]


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## edboc (Dec 8, 2008)

*Specs Compared to Jetta?*

Do we know what the specs (in terms of interior & exterior size) are compared, as well as trunk cargo size? For example how does the Jetta TDI compare to the Passat TDI in terms of price and interior room?


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

INA said:


> So essentially they killed the Passat...
> 
> No 4WD , no NA forced induction motor.


I am assuming those two are delayed introduction. Also, there are rumors that the 2.5 will be replaced in about a year with the 1.8T.


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

NickM said:


> Somebody tell me why I'd buy this over an Accord, Camry or Sonata?


Have you looked at a Camry or Accord interior recently? They don't match up to the new Jetta, let alone the Passat.


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## 85GTI (Dec 19, 2000)

tomh009 said:


> Have you looked at a Camry or Accord interior recently? They don't match up to the new Jetta, let alone the Passat.


Plus it has 4 wheel discs and multi-link rear suspension.

Edit: and I went to the Sonata website and checked out it's gallery. 

No.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

In talking to the design guys at VW, the grill was a major source of debate and revision. At customer clinics where they showed this car along side the Accord, Camry, Malibu and Sonata, people complained that the VW's front end was too plain (especially with the acres of chrome grill on the Sonata in comparison). So VW added more chrome accents to the grilll and I personally think it got a bit too busy.

Second to me are the headlamps. If VW made them projectors and spent a little time adding some nice details to them and maybe LED's like the European Passat, it would make a huge difference in how the front end look.

The Chinese market is building their own version of this car at their own factory and they are going higher-end with it. My understanding though is that parts won't be completely interchangeable.

- jamie


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

*How they priced the car at $20k - want to know whats's missing?*

You may want to grab a prev gen Passat while you can - here are some of the things that VW forgot to mention:

Hood no longer has gas struts - now has a cheap prop rod

Trunk no longer has hidden hinges - simple exposed gooseneck struts ready to crush your luggage!

Bottom half of the dash no longer has the extra padding behind it for that "soft feel" - same high quality covering but push on it and you can immediately feel the difference

Standard head lights and tail lights, no LED's, not even xenons in the front

When this hits dealerships, compare to a CC or prev gen Passat - you will be able to immediately see where the beancounters stepped in. Truly a disappointing effort.


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## randomkoreanguy (Jul 20, 2002)

sbachmeier said:


> No, I probably won't be first in line to trade my B6 Passat Wagon for a Chattanooga Passat Wagon (like they'd ever build one here in the US)...but I still hope that the new US Passat does well for the sake of VW.


Well, if they keep following the trend of other "successful" automakers (I.E. - sells cars in huge numbers), instead of a wagon they'll use their midsize car platform to make an all-wheel drive CUV that's essentially just their midsize car on stilts with huge rims, all-wheel drive, and a hatchback. Maybe throw in third-row seating so that it can compete with more expensive SUVs too if they want to be innovative. Not saying that they should do it, but I'm sure someone at VW somewhere has already suggested it.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

Definitely not feeling it.

Not feeling the new Jetta either.

I'm sensing a trend here.


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

jrp134 said:


> When this hits dealerships, compare to a CC or prev gen Passat - you will be able to immediately see where the beancounters stepped in. Truly a disappointing effort.


And you will be able to immediately see the beneficial effects in the price tag on the window.

None of the things you complain about will be disadvantages vs the competition (Camry, Accord et al).


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## .:Red_Devil (Dec 14, 2010)

My personal thoughts, Just because you are in competition , does not mean your product should resemble the competition.... yuck I say utter fail. :thumbdown:


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## Nikolai_Petroff (Feb 10, 2010)

jrp134 said:


> You may want to grab a prev gen Passat while you can - here are some of the things that VW forgot to mention:
> 
> Hood no longer has gas struts - now has a cheap prop rod
> 
> ...


But you are not paying Euro Passat money either. The only dissapointment is that you can't get Xenons... even as an option.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

jrp134 said:


> not even xenons in the front


Your other examples are plain silly, so I won't comment. But why are you saying this?  

If anything, VW has stated that the Passat will have a very long option list (much longer than any other VW sold int he US, in recent memory).


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

> Just because you are in competition , does not mean your product should resemble the competition.... yuck I say utter fail.


Then you have no clue as to how the market works. Whether it's cars, dress, pets or tattoos, the masses tend to follow trendsetters in lockstep. And face it, trendsetters (in sales) in the automotive world are vehicles that sell in numbers bigger than zipcodes. That's what people sign their checks for, and that's what they will get. :laugh:

Don't think for one minute VW doesn't know what it's doing. They're _not _in the _car _business, folks: They're in the _money-making_ business (come to think of it... who _isn't?_). They're in the business of separating you, the consumer, from your money in the quickest, most efficient, and legal manner possible. Just like every other business on the face of God's green Earth.  

Sometimes, the methods they use include sporty vehicles and better-built models stuffed with Creature Features. But sometimes, to get enough money in the till to make those desirable (to us) models, they need decontented Jettas and disappointing Passats in the pipeline. Business, my friends... is business. :sly:


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## Nikolai_Petroff (Feb 10, 2010)

Boogety Boogety said:


> Then you have no clue as to how the market works. Whether it's cars, dress, pets or tattoos, the masses tend to follow trendsetters in lockstep. And face it, trendsetters (in sales) in the automotive world are vehicles that sell in numbers bigger than zipcodes. That's what people sign their checks for, and that's what they will get. :laugh:
> 
> Don't think for one minute VW doesn't know what it's doing. They're _not _in the _car _business, folks: They're in the _money-making_ business (come to think of it... who _isn't?_). They're in the business of separating you, the consumer, from your money in the quickest, most efficient, and legal manner possible. Just like every other business on the face of God's green Earth.
> 
> Sometimes, the methods they use include sporty vehicles and better-built models stuffed with Creature Features. But sometimes, to get enough money in the till to make those desirable (to us) models, they need decontented Jettas and disappointing Passats in the pipeline. Business, my friends... is business. :sly:


Well, Enzo Ferrari sold cars... to be able to SPEND money on his beloved racing team.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> I My understanding though is that parts won't be completely interchangeable.
> 
> - jamie


This is my biggest fear with the US Passat. There will be fewer upgrades because of the separation of models. No longer will we be able to add Euro features.:thumbdown::screwy:


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

Your numbers are way off and just plain wrong.:thumbdown:

For model year 2003 Passats were 111,384 sold. 

2001 - 87528
2002 - 98389
2004 - 74458




ghostofabel said:


> The B5 Passat was never "selling close to 100K units a year." Below are the Passat Sedan's US sales figures. Notice the steady drop in sales since its peak in 2001. This drop in sales occurred long before the B6's arrived in 2005-2006. From 2001 to 2010 the Passat Sedan dropped from around 77,000 units/year to around 10,000 units/year. And we wonder why VWoA thought a completely redesigned Passat was necessary? Say what you will about the new design (I personally don't like it either), but it's idiotic to suggest VWoA should return to the B5/B6.
> 
> 1995 - 11805
> 1996 - 15773
> ...


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## ghostofabel (Jan 11, 2011)

chois said:


> 96k in 2002 seems close to 100k to me (sedan + wagon).


At its height in 2002, the Passat Sedan sold 75,499 units. The Passat Wagon that same year sold 20,643, for a total of 96,142. We're talking about the Sedan only here. The Wagon is a different market with a different customer base. Regardless, the point still stands: US Passat sales began a steady decline years before the B6 was introduced. 



chois said:


> We won't be in a VW next - they don't want their current customers. They want shiny new customers that they expect to pull away from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai. Good luck with that .


Of course they want new customers. VWoA has been in the game of pleasing only their enthusiasts for years. And guess what? It hasn't worked for them in the US. They're way behind the competition. As much as you like to be the only one on your street driving a VW, VWoA doesn't. And if you worked for VWoA, you wouldn't either.


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## ghostofabel (Jan 11, 2011)

B5Speedo said:


> Your numbers are way off and just plain wrong.:thumbdown:
> 
> For model year 2003 Passats were 111,384 sold.
> 
> ...


No I'm sorry, YOUR numbers are wrong. My data refers to the Sedan only. In 2003, US Passat sales were 59,320 for the Sedan and 17,657 for the Wagon, totaling 76,977.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

Wrong again.:thumbdown:

2003 - Sedans 84,377 and wagons 27,007

Do you also want a color, engine, tranny, and interior breakdown?

For example; a 2003 GLS Sedan 1.8T Silverstone Grey with Grey leather had 2,689 units sold. Most of any B5/B5.5 Passat model.



ghostofabel said:


> No I'm sorry, YOUR numbers are wrong. My data refers to the Sedan only. In 2003, US Passat sales were 59,320 for the Sedan and 17,657 for the Wagon, totaling 76,977.


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## JayJetta (Mar 29, 2001)

somebody wake me up from this nightmare! VW is turning into Toyota. Actually VW, you've manage to build an even more boring looking car than Toyota ever has. It looks like an inflated Jetta. As if one bland model wasn't enough! :banghead: At least the Golf R is coming...add the Scirocco and all is forgiven :laugh:


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## ghostofabel (Jan 11, 2011)

B5Speedo said:


> Wrong again.:thumbdown:
> 
> 2003 - Sedans 84,377 and wagons 27,007
> 
> ...


Maybe your talking about total North American sales? My numbers are coming from internal VWoA resources.


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## JWM (Aug 11, 2010)

*First Impression-OK*

I'll "fess up" and state that I'm really impressed with the KIA Optima EX Turbo, but I think the new Passat is on the right track. Sure, I'd like the European styling and the option of a wagon, but there may be too few of us to justify the cost. It may take $5 a gallon gas to get the land yachts off the road, but I doubt it.

Bottom line is send me an SEL with the TDI and the NAV system. My one fear is initial quality. They'd better get it right.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

So are mine so you should be able to sort it out.



ghostofabel said:


> Maybe your talking about total North American sales? My numbers are coming from internal VWoA resources.


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## VW Jetta GLS (Jun 21, 2000)

*I cannot see my family buying this car*

Maybe VW will land a hit with this mid-size sedan, who knows. I have not read through all the comments here but I did not see anyone mention what must have been the biggest problem VWoA has faced in the last decade. Clearly, it was not the design of the product, the quality of the interior or the feel and performance of the drivetrain. It was the inaptitude and lack of professionalism of the North American Volkswagen dealers who were unable and/ or unwilling to address specific issues with the cars. Combine that with an unsatisfactory customer experience every step of the way (e.g., having to explain that VW requires synthetic oil for the 1.8t or that there is a 2-year required interval for brake fluid changes) and customers have just left disappointed.

Volkswagen has now decided that the solution to the problem is to introduce a me-too product that:
exudes boredom, 
trades character for interchangeability, 
exchanges quality components for run-of-the-mill items and 
exhibits literally no technology leadership (such as a small displacement/ high horsepower and torque TSI engine).

All that is being sold as German-anything how? 

How is this car going to resolve the pathetic quality of the dealer network? How is this car going to draw potential buyers from Japanese and Korean marques or even from Ford? I am not sure.

I cannot see how the new Passat (no Variant version available anyway, apparently) or the new Jetta (which, in all its decontented glory, looks even more Asian in an automotive sense than the Passat) would entice anyone in my family to visit a VW dealer and drive one of the lot.

I wish VWoA luck but it seems they will have to carry on without me and my family's support and enthusiasm.


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## jennythejetta (Aug 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> ...people complained that the VW's front end was too plain (especially with the acres of chrome grill on the Sonata in comparison)....


This makes me giggle. Collectively as a soceity, we're a bunch of morons that don't know know what we want. It wasn't long ago that these boards were riddled with complaints about the bold chrome front-end VW put on the Jetta and Passat that, imo, gave the car and brand distinctive personality (there was no mistaking what was sitting in your rearview mirror). 

VW does away with the chrome and people complain the front end is too plain...especially with the acres of chrome grill on the Sonata??? That just cracks me up...I'd hate to be a designer reading these message boards. You give the people what they want, and this is their reaction? 

L.o.L.


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

ghostofabel said:


> Of course they want new customers. VWoA has been in the game of pleasing only their enthusiasts for years. And guess what? It hasn't worked for them in the US. They're way behind the competition. As much as you like to be the only one on your street driving a VW, VWoA doesn't. And if you worked for VWoA, you wouldn't either.


The grass always looks greener, but they had a differentiated product in the past, and built a customer base that appreciated that. It was not an "enthusiast" customer base per se, but yes I fit that description. I do not expect VW to develop cars specifically to suit my taste. 

However I think that by attempting to re-position their products as they are in the North American market, they are moving to market space that is ultra competitive on price and reliability, which are two attributes that they have done a poor job of delivering over the past 2 decades. VW had a differentiated position in the market, and could have adjusted some secondary product attributes to improve overall preference without moving into such a crowded space that requires them to develop new strengths. 

This strategy is a boom or bust proposition IMO. If they can change the "DNA" in their system and deliver a completely different product, with a different level of reliability and service they have a chance to succeed. If they don't, they will fall on their face...again. I don't see real cultural changes taking place given the long history of VW Germany calling the shots over VWoA.

Color me skeptical.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

Maybe VW could try advertising their all their products. When was the last time you saw a Passat ad in print or on TV? And I don't mean the CC. How about a Passat wagon ad? Maybe 5 years ago?

If VW wants to market all their cars then how about advertising them?:screwy: 

The key to good marketing is getting people to buy something they don't want or need. 

Saab, Volvo, BMW, and Mercedes all sell wagons in the US. VW has a good product but they never market them.


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

*very true but...*

does the car have to be so bland? Hyundai took a leap with the recent design of their vehicles and are being rewarded with record sales.


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## paulg6868 (Jun 23, 2006)

I'm so glad I bought my '10 Passat when I did!!! Good looks, 2.0T, DSG, Made in Germany...WINNER!!! :laugh:


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## Wagon05 (Feb 7, 2005)

feels_road said:


> I am assuming those two are delayed introduction. Also, there are rumors that the 2.5 will be replaced in about a year with the 1.8T.


 NICE - man , I hope that is true - but may go diesel anyway


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## 85GTI (Dec 19, 2000)

Seems like there might be an interesting strategy on the part of VW here. They tried to sell well made ver Euro styled and designed cars to Americans and it didn't work so well. Part of this is that VW has spent the last 50 years branding themselves as the maker of cheap, small cars for the everyman. They tried to sell German fancy cars under that brand umbrella and people went - "Huh?"

So maybe now they plan to sell cars that look like the other stuff out there with just a slight hint of Teutonic heritage. Get people into these cars and restructure the branding a little. Then gradually over a period of years introduce a more German look and feel along with improvements in quality. Ten years from now Americans will be buying super luxe, über German VWs and they won't know the difference!


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## dubbinASE (Jan 7, 2009)

Another horrible design from VWOA IMO... Looks like a taurus sho from the front and like a mid 90's lexus from the back. By the way i would rather buy a Sho atleast it's AWD and Twin charged :sly:. Oh and it takes VWOA a VR6 to make 280hp?  The new Sonata Turbo has 276HP and its a 4 cyl; Whats up with that analog clock in the dash? they get that idea from the chrysler 300? What a joke....


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## JohnTT (Dec 7, 2001)

The Sonata is a nice car but Hyundai's designs don't appeal to everyone including myself. :facepalm:

Give me a Passat TDI SEL manual please.eace:


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## lowpassat (Jul 15, 2008)

how about some pshop? 

the burgundy with the roti nue was growing on me as i was doing it!










how 'bout some oem+?










and roti blq split













i think i'll take back what i said... it might be the next one lol!


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## Mo_Focus (Oct 9, 2005)

anyone has the spec on this car yet? I wonder what the fuel tank size would be for the gas and TDI models, if its the same then it could be really cool for the TDI range. 

I think on thier site it says 795miles is the range!


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## Mo_Focus (Oct 9, 2005)

JohnTT said:


> The Sonata is a nice car but Hyundai's designs don't appeal to everyone including myself. :facepalm:
> 
> Give me a Passat TDI SEL manual please.eace:


yeah exactly! its cool, but i bet in couple of yrs all those hyndai's will be outdated and just weird to look at


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## 85GTI (Dec 19, 2000)

Mo_Focus said:


> yeah exactly! its cool, but i bet in couple of yrs all those hyndai's will be outdated and just weird to look at


It might already be weird to look at.


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## kwhiner (Jan 2, 2001)

*Passat*

Have to agree the styling is at best an overgrown Jetta, definately bland! My real curiousity is what the handling will be like. Will it feel like a VW in the turns and on the open road or like the looks will it just be another BORING Japanese sedan or as was said a Ford 500 with the VW label!!

kwhiner


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## JohnTT (Dec 7, 2001)

It's amazing to see so many people passionate about Volkswagens, negative or not...I love it opcorn:

Give me a Passat TDI SEL manual please eace:


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## Passat94VR6 (Jul 7, 2007)

Those p-chops are quite nice actually. Amazing what a drop and a set of wheels can do. This car looks so *BIG* though. With the risk of sounding like a penis joke, it's too long and wide like. 

Funny that Ford and GM are busy bringing their Euro cars to the States when VW is doing the exact opposite. Sorry lads, but this will take the place of what Cadillacs used to be, which were strictly for pimps or pensioners. Pimps with a drop, tints and wheels, pensioners stock. Disappointment if ya ask me . . . will be interesting to see one in person one day . . . then again, it probably won't :facepalm:


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## Mo_Focus (Oct 9, 2005)

85GTI said:


> It might already be weird to look at.


haha true! reminds me of the 90's LHS sedans from Chrysler that whole cab forward look.


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## sbachmeier (Mar 2, 1999)

JohnTT said:


> It's amazing to see so many people passionate about Volkswagens, negative or not...I love it opcorn:


Yeah, really! People, let's wait until we are able to see these new Passats in person and actually flog, er, *drive* them. I bet _that's_ where the differentiation will be between the Passat and the Asian brand competition.

At least I sure hope that's the case.

I remember (back when I was a B5 wagon owner) when I first saw photos of the B6, and the nothing-but-chrome front end. I *hated* how the cars looked in photos. However, once I saw some of the cars in person, my opinion began to soften a bit to "Well, it's not that bad I guess...but damn, it's still a lot of chrome". Now I have a B6 sitting in my garage, and I think the design has aged quite nicely -- I love to occasionally pause for a moment to just look at and admire the design of my B6.

So the sky is not falling folks -- VW is just rolling out some new models that will hopefully get more Americans to warm up to the qualities of the brand and make a purchase to bring *Vee Dub in da Haus, ja!*


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

dubbinASE said:


> Whats up with that analog clock in the dash? they get that idea from the chrysler 300? What a joke....


I don't understand why people have such an issue with an analog clock. Do you all wear digital watches, too?

While the clock is round and has an hour hand and a minute hand, it looks little like the one in the 300. My '97 A4 had an analog clock, too, and I was quite happy with it.


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

DaWolfsburg said:


> :facepalm:


Looks like this is where you punch in your time card. I hope it makes a satisfying "Clack-tock" noise when you're done driving and get out.


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## Mo_Focus (Oct 9, 2005)

Kid Hobo said:


> Looks like this is where you punch in your time card. I hope it makes a satisfying "Clack-tock" noise when you're done driving and get out.


this is actually only for TDI models and its the count down timer before the HPFP fails! they did this so you dont get stuck on the side of the road! you can plan your trip to the nearest vw dealer


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## footose_reloaded (May 26, 2003)

Awful


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## borellsoffun (May 26, 2004)

B2 Quantum rocks!


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

I actually don't mind the rear 3/4 view, but it does look like an accord. VW can always do a refresh and fix some of the design flaws (much like BMW did with the Bangle designs) - The decontenting in the interest of cost cutting is what irks me. That and those awful, ridiculous Bill Hader adds that make me want to punch someone (well, Bill Hader or the clown in the add agency that put those together)


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

jrp134 said:


> The decontenting in the interest of cost cutting is what irks me.


What decontenting are you talking about, specifically? Are we back to the Mercedes-inspired trunk hinges?


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

feels_road said:


> What decontenting are you talking about, specifically? Are we back to the Mercedes-inspired trunk hinges?


And those hinges are gone from Mercedes as well -- at least from C-class and E-class.
http://www.cardekho.com/interior-pictures/mercedes-benz-e-class/trunk-open-49.htm


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

feels_road said:


> What decontenting are you talking about, specifically? Are we back to the Mercedes-inspired trunk hinges?


Off of that one - how about the lack or rear seat vents, electronic park brake, bi xenon headlights, umbrella holder, 2.0 l fsi turbo engine, - still confused ?


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## thatofinthedistance (Apr 1, 2009)

Miro VR6 said:


> The new Camry is finally here!!





Toby16custom said:


> So it's a Jetta with some options+a 6 cyl in case your really loving the idea?
> 
> VW your disappointing me


i love you VW and always will, but you need a new designer, cause this dude sucks. VW got the Rocco, Golf R, and the GTI right, other than that, everything else flat out sucks. 

Stop ripping off TOYOTA and get some balls. This is German Engineering at its *WORST*


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## thatofinthedistance (Apr 1, 2009)

sbachmeier said:


> Yeah, really! People, let's wait until we are able to see these new Passats in person and actually flog, er, *drive* them. I bet _that's_ where the differentiation will be between the Passat and the Asian brand competition.
> 
> At least I sure hope that's the case.
> 
> ...


If VW still has to warm up to Americans, then there is something wrong. I hate how they are trying to dominate the car market...or so it seems. Because when you do that, you make cars that are plain, and average, and that look like every other jap car on the market. America is already warmed up to Volkswagen or they wouldnt sell as many MK5's as they did, or Even 4's. Id rather drive a MK4, than this POS honestly. 
Hopefully VW will go back to its design roots of being different, and set apart, and unique, not "trendy"


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

jrp134 said:


> Off of that one - how about the lack or rear seat vents, electronic park brake, bi xenon headlights, umbrella holder, 2.0 l fsi turbo engine, - still confused ?


Yes, definitely still confused. I can put my umbrella just fine in the dedicated place of my MkVI Golf. The vast majority of owners prefer a manual hand brake over a difficult-to-understand electronic one. Rear seats vents, I am sure, are part of a package - as are HIDs. The all-new 1.8 TSI engine is said to replace the 2.5 a year from now - with better mileage than the 2.0T. Yes, still confused by decontenting drama.


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

feels_road said:


> Yes, definitely still confused. I can put my umbrella just fine in the dedicated place of my MkVI Golf. The vast majority of owners prefer a manual hand brake over a difficult-to-understand electronic one. Rear seats vents, I am sure, are part of a package - as are HIDs. The all-new 1.8 TSI engine is said to replace the 2.5 a year from now - with better mileage than the 2.0T. Yes, still confused by decontenting drama.


HID's are NOT available - even on the top of the line trim as shown in Detroit- that is a major de-content right there, especially since Hyundai Sonata's will now have LED's available - rear seat vents are NOT available even on the top of the line trim as shown in Detroit - true about the umbrella holder, but it was a neat feature prev owners liked - and waiting 2.5 years for an engine choice that is modern, powerful and efficient is really a bad choice considering - once again (i know i'm beating a dead horse here) the Sonata has an awesome turbo four with 274 hp on tap from 2.0 litres (more than the Golf R engine even!) The reason I am bringing up the Sonata so much is that Hyundai took a styling chance (copied the CC in my eyes), loaded the thing up with features, put in some engine choices (turbo, hybrid) and is now reaping the benefits - sales records for the marque, beating the Camry, Accord and a Subie in a recent C&D competition: (www.caranddriver.com/reviews/compar...a_se_2010_subaru_legacy_2.5i-comparison_tests ) winning numerous automotive awards and is being recognized for now being a car of quality by CR. How is VW going to compete with that? Hopefully the German design is a trump card, but reading forums and posts all over the net on various sites shows a majority of negative reactions to this new Passat and the Jetta as well. I love VW's and have owned 5 (incl Audi's) and have two in my garage right now. I was expecting more because I was really pleased with the new Touareg. VW is a business and needs to increase sales in the US for sure, but the Koreans keeps adding content and features, power and efficiency, bold styling, better reliability and warranties with a dealer network that tries hard to care. Is being a German marque enough when the car is "Americanized" ?


----------



## cwescapexlt4x4 (Jan 2, 2003)

Very disappointed that there (at this time) no wagon for the US. Well guess we will wait for the Sonata wagon or still consider the JSW....


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## AUDITRANCE (Feb 10, 2003)

I thought fake wood trim was a thing of the past:thumbdown:. On the bright side you could always replace the ghey clock with a boost gauge if a turbo model is ever available.


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## mexglx (Apr 22, 2003)

Ford tried unsuccessfully for years to sell meaningful quantities of Fords in India. It wasn't until they designed and made a specific for India model (the Figo) that they started to actually capture some meaningful sales. They have had to add a second shift in their Chenai plant. Its not a European/world model or big American model. Its got funky bright colored dash boards etc. Anyway, my point is VW is giving the US market what it wants. And the European models that others are bringing here are being changed for our market anyway. The smaller cars and more efficient engines are whats coming. I am sure the spring rates, steering feel, options list, cupholders etc are not the same. Plus the OEMs are making world inspired models here, like VW is finally going to do.

I think we will find that some new Fords, GMs and New VWs will share a lot in common. 

I just wish VW would change those cheap ass hinges!!!! They look so high school shop class or so '91 Dodge shadow base model.


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## panzer 2.3 (May 24, 2008)

manual_tranny said:


> It could be a ford taurus maybe...


Haha, I thought it was a ford 500 at first. I don't like this at all, looks like a oversized jetta:thumbdown: I like the cc, but this new passat is lame.


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## Seff56 (Oct 19, 2009)

as others have mentioned its just a bigger jetta with better options.


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## pheatton (Jul 19, 2004)

thatofinthedistance said:


> If VW still has to warm up to Americans, then there is something wrong. I hate how they are trying to dominate the car market...or so it seems. Because when you do that, you make cars that are plain, and average, and that look like every other jap car on the market. America is already warmed up to Volkswagen or they wouldnt sell as many MK5's as they did, or Even 4's. Id rather drive a MK4, than this POS honestly.
> Hopefully VW will go back to its design roots of being different, and set apart, and unique, not "trendy"



Exactly!! Look at what happened to Toyota. They make boring, bland people movers that, over the last year, have had massive QC issues. I see VW headed down this road towards their want to dominate the world car market.

If this is the future of VW, it makes me feel better and better about getting my 2011 Mini Cooper S. May not be a VW but it is unique and nothing else looks like it. Plus the local dealer actually made me feel like they wanted to help me and work a deal unlike my VW dealer.


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## focal (Nov 19, 2000)

*rear suspension*

has any one confirmed if it's a solid rear axel or a fully independent?

I guess I will be looking under the car Saturday when I'm there


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

focal said:


> has any one confirmed if it's a solid rear axel or a fully independent?
> 
> I guess I will be looking under the car Saturday when I'm there



Thankfully the new Passat has an independent rear suspension.


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

mexglx said:


> I just wish VW would change those cheap ass hinges!!!! They look so high school shop class or so '91 Dodge shadow base model.


So I'm _not _the only one with this complaint! :beer:


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## comcf (Aug 23, 2004)

The thing I find funny is that with VW claiming to try to capture new people, we're the only ones who'll be buying these and other models. I believe strongly that Hyundai and the Japanese makers are in a different class altogether. A Toyota buyer will not buy a VW. Period. It may seem to cost the same (but it doesn't because a Civic with the same features as the new Jetta is about $5K cheaper). The Japanese folks know that VWs are a. unreliable compared to their Japanese competitors; and b. more expensive to repair. That's it for the Japaneses crowd. There's a reason my new Jetta in 2001 came with a 24 month warranty. Also, VW service sucks. Everyone knows that. And yes, they're worse than their Honday/ Toyota counterparts. Again, I am not exactly telling you anything you don't know. That's a factor for the Japanese crowd. 

That being said, everyone who's commented knows we'll be buying VWs for the foreseeable future. If you don't like the Passat, you'll get the CC or the MK6 GTI or GLI. So, let's stop being silly. 

So, two conclusions. First, the new product strategy is not going to work. Second, we'll keep buying the cars with the soul or at least with the turbo engine.


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

This is a quick review of the new Passat by CNET:http://cnettv.cnet.com/2012-vw-passat/9742-1_53-50098801.html?tag=cnetRiver


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

So can anyone guesstimate the pricing for the differing trim levels? If the base S is $20k...
Jamie?


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

jrp134 said:


> mexglx said:
> 
> 
> > I just wish VW would change those cheap ass hinges!!!! They look so high school shop class or so '91 Dodge shadow base model.
> ...


Have you looked at a Mercedes C-class or E-class recently? Or the BMW 5-series? Those are the same type of hinges as the Passat has.

It's time to get over the trunk hinge issue. Those were nice hinges but outrageously expensive, and VW is not the only manufacturer going back to conventional hinges.


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## Deezel Boy (Nov 26, 1999)

Just a fat overweight Jetta! 


kinda like america as a whole, fat overweight!


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## ktrgs32 (Feb 8, 2007)

this car is garbage I know the enthusiast crowd is a very small percentage of sales and about 90% of people just see a car as something to get from point A to point B but damn VW the Japanese have even stopped making bland cars.


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## DNYPHNTM (Oct 6, 2006)

*BLECH!*

HORRID HORRID HORRID HORRID. If i wanted an unstyled ugly car I would grab myself a Japanese one. I'll take the engine though.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

jrp134 said:


> HID's are NOT available - even on the top of the line trim as shown in Detroit- that is a major de-content right there, especially since Hyundai Sonata's will now have LED's available - rear seat vents are NOT available even on the top of the line trim as shown in Detroit - true about the umbrella holder, but it was a neat feature prev owners liked - and waiting 2.5 years for an engine choice that is modern, powerful and efficient is really a bad choice considering - once again (i know i'm beating a dead horse here) the Sonata has an awesome turbo four with 274 hp on tap from 2.0 litres (more than the Golf R engine even!)


All of what you are saying is completely unsubstantiated.



The cars shown are preliminary, they are not the final product.

The one thing VW heavily emphasized is that the new Passat will have a lot more stand-alone options and packages than any other VW - so I am confident HIDs will be available in certain configurations (even my new Golf has them!).

How do you come up with 2.5 years for the arrival of a turbo engine? All we know is that VW is still completing construction of the Mexican facility that will help assemble more engines, and unfortunately things are not quite ready, yet --- but it sounds more like about a year. Also, I haven't written off the transverse version of Audi's high-torque 2.0T yet, either.




comcf said:


> The thing I find funny is that with VW claiming to try to capture new people, *we're the only ones who'll be buying these and other models*.


Actually, taking a cursory glance of the profiles of the posters that most vocally complain here, it looks very much like the vast majority are new members and/or also apparently people who buy used VWs, not new ones. I wouldn't touch any statistics drawn from this thread with a ten-foot pole.


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## 155VERT83 (Aug 1, 2000)

*Like*

Looks good in videos. I'd rock a VR6.


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## baillieul (Apr 16, 2000)

In the past decade, the 2 best looking VWs were the MK IV Jetta and the CC. These new ones just look like everything else. You know, if Hyundai actually tuned the Sonata a bit so it could handle, it would be in my driveway.

Fail VW.


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

> The Japanese folks know that VWs are a. unreliable compared to their Japanese competitors; and b. more expensive to repair. That's it for the Japaneses crowd. There's a reason my new Jetta in 2001 came with a 24 month warranty. Also, VW service sucks. Everyone knows that. And yes, they're worse than their Honday/ Toyota counterparts. Again, I am not exactly telling you anything you don't know. That's a factor for the Japanese crowd.
> 
> That being said, everyone who's commented knows we'll be buying VWs for the foreseeable future. If you don't like the Passat, you'll get the CC or the MK6 GTI or GLI. So, let's stop being silly.
> 
> So, two conclusions. First, the new product strategy is not going to work. Second, we'll keep buying the cars with the soul or at least with the turbo engine.


:facepalm:

Everyone's an expert here. But you fail to understand... every year, you have a new market for buyers, and they _don't_ share our views. Hell, they don't even _know _our views. They don't _care_.

Cars today have much better warranties than _nine years ago_, as you know. VW service used to be problematic, but much less so today. Quality control has been improved by an order of magnitude throughout the industry, and VW has kept pace (never mind about recent Toyota recalls, along with Audi, Chrysler, Ford, Honda... etc.). And brand loyalty, if it ever existed... is highly overrated. There are buyers out there (I dare say, the vast majority) who make a car-buying decision not necessarily for the entire package features, but for the closeness of the dealer to their home, or the color, or (as research has shown) only one or two salient features of the car (an interactive nav system, for example, or a better childseat anchor, or how the seats fold, or whether the seat can squooosh close enough to the steering wheel so Shawty can see over the instrument binnacle, whatever their main concern is on that day). Some enthusiasts (many here) look over the _entire _car and decide on a purchase intelligently, after weighing other models. Guess what: Most buyers (over 80%) buy a car _without test driving another, comparable model_. So, VW, if it has a popularly-priced, attractive (to the masses), compelling vehicle (it's _German!_), and can get people in the dealership... Will sell all it can stamp out in sunny Mexico. Trust me on this. :laugh:


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

feels_road said:


> All of what you are saying is completely unsubstantiated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 2.5 years for the turbo engine was quoted by the prev poster - I think it will be more like a year before VW realizes the omission was a mistake and offers a turbo 4. As for the HID option, why send a car touted as the top end model without HID's? The other prelim models from other companies had HID's or LEDs. Why would VW show off a production ready car without them? From other blogs, interviews with VW execs at the show stated that these WERE the headlights that are available when the car rolls out. They may offer them (HID) later, but why not from the start? As far as the Mexican plant goes, there are no indications that the plant will produce a turbo engine - it may, but that plant is not scheduled to be up and running until 2013 (as per the announcement by the Mexican govt) 

As for your comment regarding most posters are new members and/or people who by used VW's, what dif does this make? These new Passats will be used in a few years, and the posters who are not buying these cars new will NOT buy them used either - as for being a new poster myself, I have been a VW/Audi owner (new vehicles) for over 17 years - I have just never been so disappointed in a new VW launch so I decided to post (in a response to a twitter message from VW Canada).


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## LEGolfer (Nov 21, 2005)

*new engine clarification*

_The 2.5 years for the turbo engine was quoted by the prev poster _

Actually, the previous poster stated that the 2.5 engine would be replaced in about a year. Not 2.5 years.


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

LEGolfer said:


> _The 2.5 years for the turbo engine was quoted by the prev poster _
> 
> Actually, the previous poster stated that the 2.5 engine would be replaced in about a year. Not 2.5 years.


that's what I get for drinking and posting...:banghead:


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## VW_Hippie (May 14, 2010)

Hey guys I work closely with a Canadian VW dealership and all I here is the 2.0 115hp jetta selling like hot cakes to the point of limited availability. I've met some of the various clients that have bought the new jetta over the civic and corolla. Comments I'm hearing is price, size and safety is what seems to be the determining factors. VW is drawing new customers in whether you like the jetta/passat or not - By the way I'm not a fan either, I understand why vw did it. Take a look at mexico they have more models than North America.... They sell more VW's. Where ever VW sells more there are more models to choose from - simple concept. So us dubbers we can keep creating bad vibes and slow the process and wait even longer for the models we really want.. I think most dubbers agree there's a vw they really really want that is driving in germany and not here north america. So give VW a break they are the underdogs in North America-right now. I want the Phaeton TDI and the California TDI.


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

VW_Hippie said:


> Hey guys I work closely with a Canadian VW dealership and all I here is the 2.0 115hp jetta selling like hot cakes to the point of limited availability. I've met some of the various clients that have bought the new jetta over the civic and corolla. Comments I'm hearing is price, size and safety is what seems to be the determining factors. VW is drawing new customers in whether you like the jetta/passat or not - By the way I'm not a fan either, I understand why vw did it. Take a look at mexico they have more models than North America.... They sell more VW's. Where ever VW sells more there are more models to choose from - simple concept. So us dubbers we can keep creating bad vibes and slow the process and wait even longer for the models we really want.. I think most dubbers agree there's a vw they really really want that is driving in germany and not here north america. So give VW a break they are the underdogs in North America-right now. I want the Phaeton TDI and the California TDI.


This is what I want! http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/amarok/


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

Failed!!!!

I'm surprised that they didnt put a 2.slow on this car. Its sad to see a new car that is actualy inferior to the model its replacing.
Its just a bigger jetta wich is also degraded from the last gen :facepalm:
I'll just stick to my mk4 and b5 and be happy with it

Side note: In times where hyundai sedans comes stock with 280hp , honda accord 260hp whats vw thinking when they make a gti (and future gli) with 200hp and the bigger heavier passat 175hp? Its a joke


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## DeepBlackDub (Mar 11, 2006)

Nah, not a joke, just VW trying to bring an uncomplicated offering to the "American" public. No turbo, just their own feeble attempt at going "green". They weren't garnering any awards in the MPG department with their engine tech... so what the heck, here you go America. Ccome back to Euriope and we'll treat you to what you "_really_" want.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

Myliljettatoy said:


> Failed!!!!
> Its sad to see a new car that is actualy inferior to the model its replacing.


In what way, specifically, is it inferior? It is larger, less expensive, and available with a TDI and a powerful VR6 - all advances compared to the outgoing one.



Myliljettatoy said:


> Side note: In times where hyundai sedans comes stock with 280hp , honda accord 260hp whats vw thinking when they make a gti (and future gli) with 200hp and the bigger heavier passat 175hp? Its a joke


You realize the competing Camcords also come with 170-180hp base engines (albeit, with less torque than the Passat), and the Passat comes with a 280hp VR6? :screwy:


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

If VW wanted to steal away the Camry, Accord, buyers, they should have Looked to Kia. 
Really, have you seen the new Kia Optima? Looks great, 200hp engine, $19,000. Not only is VW going to loose their current buyers, but they are not going to get the buyers that they are trying to attract. I never thought I would ever buy a Kia, but new Optima has got me thinking.


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

feels_road said:


> In what way, specifically, is it inferior? It is larger, less expensive, and available with a TDI and a powerful VR6 - all advances compared to the outgoing one.
> 
> 
> 
> You realize the competing Camcords also come with 170-180hp base engines (albeit, with less torque than the Passat), and the Passat comes with a 280hp VR6? :screwy:


Here it comes....

Its larger heavier and comes with a less powerfull engine... yes its inferior :thumbdown:

Older model had awd for top of the line model, not offered for the new model

Base model was a 200hp engine, new model 175hp

The only good about the new model compared to the old model is the interior and the option for the tdi engine


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

Myliljettatoy said:


> Here it comes....
> 
> Its larger heavier and comes with a less powerfull engine... yes its inferior :thumbdown:
> 
> ...



counterpoints...

Will the avg. passat buyer really notice 15 hp? No probably not...

The outgoing model was introduced by its lonesome. since then, the CC has been introduced, which overlaps much of the Passat's target market, but is on the higher end. That will continue to have AWD.


I was also somewhat of a doubter at first, but since I've seen it, my mind has been changed. It is no "worse" than the outgoing (B6) model it is replacing.


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## someguy123 (Sep 30, 2005)

Only time will tell.

As for the trunk hinges. The previous, fancy/expensive ones gets hard to open after a while. These new ones(also used in Mercedes,etc) are way for reliable and won't stiffen up like the old ones.


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## Late Apex (Jan 28, 2007)

VW_Hippie said:


> Hey guys I work closely with a Canadian VW dealership and all I here is the 2.0 115hp jetta selling like hot cakes to the point of limited availability. I've met some of the various clients that have bought the new jetta over the civic and corolla. Comments I'm hearing is price, size and safety is what seems to be the determining factors. VW is drawing new customers in whether you like the jetta/passat or not - By the way I'm not a fan either, I understand why vw did it. Take a look at mexico they have more models than North America.... They sell more VW's. Where ever VW sells more there are more models to choose from - simple concept. So us dubbers we can keep creating bad vibes and slow the process and wait even longer for the models we really want.. I think most dubbers agree there's a vw they really really want that is driving in germany and not here north america. So give VW a break they are the underdogs in North America-right now. I want the Phaeton TDI and the California TDI.


You sound like a VW employee...


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## focal (Nov 19, 2000)

*nothing wrong*

spent 10 minutes today looking at the show

the car interior is fine, design is solid and there is no real fault with what was done.

compared to the outgoing, I like the interior more. the materials are of normal VW quality. conservative is fine.

the trunk is obviously annoying compromise, but not a deal breaker. the suspension was independent as noted above. I just had to get on my knees to look.

TDI, manual and I'll be happy

the FENDER sound system is not that great. coming from a very good after market in my Mk4 jetta, this OEM sound system doesn't even come close. 

compared to a camry/accord, this is still worthy to be on my shopping list and worthy of the VW name badge....the current jetta is definitely cheaper plastics....the new Passat is no better nor worse than the Golf/GTI


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

Myliljettatoy said:


> Here it comes....
> 
> Its larger heavier and comes with a less powerfull engine... yes its inferior :thumbdown:


Larger is an _advantage_ in the class it competes against - not a disadvantage. If you want a smaller, nimbler, more sporty car, buy a GTI or GLI - the Jetta is now about as large as the B5 Passat. And who said that it is significantly, if at all, heavier? Also, you are wrongly assuming that there will be no turbo engine as late introduction, and you simply ignore the 280hp VR6.



Myliljettatoy said:


> Older model had awd for top of the line model, not offered for the new model


AWD and VR6 engine have not been available on the Passat, for a while, now. However, again, most people assume the opposite of your claim - namely, AWD as late introduction. Obviously, VW doesn't want to scare away customers this early in the game by reviews that say things like "up to $40,000 fully loaded." 

The entire idea is that now, that the car is built in Tennessee, VW can offer more packages and stand-alone options - and they have exactly said that much.


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## tecknoquatt (Jul 2, 2004)

Disappointing and boring. 

Hyundai Sonata 2009 model










The rear end of the new Passat sure looks awfully similar..... what a shame!


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## oj1480 (Jun 6, 2006)

looks just like the jetta. :banghead:


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## onepointeightdub (Feb 14, 2008)

For shame


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## JayS2000 (Feb 20, 2010)

*2012 Passat*

I think it's comparable, visually at least, to the European Passat. Both cars are conservatively styled. The car is conservatively styled, and that's what a lot of people who are looking for mid-priced family sedans are looking for. 

I'm going to take a wait and see attitude, but in photos it looks good in darker colors, especially dark blue. 

I like the idea of the diesel too.


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## laduran (Jan 17, 2011)

*Wagon?*

Any inside information that there will be a wagon variant sold in the US? This has been my holy grail of cars. A biggish, euro wagon with great diesel MPG.


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## jrp134 (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't think that conservative styling is the way to go - here is more proof:http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/01/16/2011-kia-optima-wins-cars-com-best-car-of-2011-award/


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## Wagon05 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Wagon*



laduran said:


> Any inside information that there will be a wagon variant sold in the US? This has been my holy grail of cars. A biggish, euro wagon with great diesel MPG.


Me too - need diesel wagon and wouldnt care about any other equipment - anyone have any info - or will it be like VW always does - year after sedan. I really hope VW does not kill the wagon in US


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

jrp134 said:


> I don't think that conservative styling is the way to go - here is more proof:http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/01/16/2011-kia-optima-wins-cars-com-best-car-of-2011-award/


So Kia won an award, not for design specifically but for a new car ... I'm not sure exactly what that proves.

Anyway, the Optima exterior design is nice but not exactly radical. Overseen by Peter Schreyer, former VW and Audi designer.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

jrp134 said:


> I don't think that conservative styling is the way to go - here is more proof:http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/01/16/2011-kia-optima-wins-cars-com-best-car-of-2011-award/


That's not a proof - it's what's called an appeal to authority.

Buyers decide - not reviewers. I also like the looks of the Optima over the Passat - created by a great designer. But I am not in the market for a mid-size sedan, or any sedan for that matter. I also don't buy cars based on looks, much (I have owned two frumpy Subarus).

VW thinks that pleasant but conservative styling will give them access to the largest subset of large mid-size sedan buyers. Despite my advanced age, I would have added _a bit more _ spice, but generally, I can't fault their thinking.


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

After reading the article and seeing the photos, this new Passat should be a winner. The exterior styling definitely has a resemblance to the European Passat. The interior looks great too. Looks to me like you can definitely put together a pretty sweet ride and come out for under $30,000. This car should compete very well with other offerings like the Camry, Accord, Malibu, etc. :thumbup:

I'll definitely consider one when I'm ready to replace my 04 Passat GLX. :beer:


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## AliensWanted (Aug 24, 2004)

I think the base 5 cylinder is a fine engine choice. Reliable, low maintenance cost and decent oomph. 

This basically reminds me of a modern day Quantum.


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

FWIW, to all those who are complaining "it's nothing but a big Jetta" - B5 Passat vs. mk4 Jetta, anyone? They were completely different cars underneath, yes, but they were basically scaled versions of one another outside, and the interiors were very very similar. NMS vs mk6 Jetta is the same thing.


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## JohnTT (Dec 7, 2001)

Just came back from the NAIAS. Very good show this year. I think Audi had the best display of cars. VW, Mini and Porsche had a great display as well.
I went to the VW area with an opened mind. The Volkswagen Passat is indeed a very nice car. Everyone around had positive things to say about it. The interior is by far the best in that class. I sat in the Camry, Accord, Azera and several models from GM for comparison. I took lots of pics inside and out and will try to post them soon.


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## EuroFreak (Oct 8, 2001)

Damn, what a lack of imagination and creativity. We don't need more Toyotas or Hondas.


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## focal (Nov 19, 2000)

put some seat time in the car....for the intended market (mid size family sedan), it actually hits the mark very well.

the small details that made VW unique...interior quality, conservative design are all there.

of course, some normal upscale european features have been eliminated to reduce selling price. 

a lot of people read "cheaper price" to mean cheaper car. This passat has a lot of cost savings by being built in the US....that's where the lower price came from. not pure de-contenting like the Jetta.

styling...of course a more dynamic design could have been achieved but the NA passat looks very similar to the European model and the design is in concert with all their modern cars.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

Boogety Boogety said:


> :facepalm:
> 
> 
> Cars today have much better warranties than _nine years ago_, as you know.


Uh, actually VW's warranties have gotten _shorter_.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

feels_road said:


> The one thing VW heavily emphasized is that the new Passat will have a lot more stand-alone options and packages than any other VW - so I am confident HIDs will be available in certain configurations (even my new Golf has them!).


The new Passat will *not* have HIDs. Maybe one day when VW decides to stop offering yesterday's tech but not this year. Don't get me started on how outdated their navigation systems are compared to the rest of the industry. Also, where did VW say it will have a lot more stand-alone options and packages? As I recall they only said that about the upcoming Beetle and that was only because it will be competing with the highly customizable Mini. It was said the Passat would have more options than the new Jetta but that's not saying much.


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## mauslick (Aug 9, 2000)

the front end sucks but the other views are not so bad............

bring on a wagon without a sloped roof reducing the amount of cargo space like the current passat and all the other wagons have done.......
I buy a wagon for cargo space......no I don't want a truck, I don't want a van or mini van,.I don't wasn a psuedo suv............I want a station wagon with cargo space. (with and without seat folded down).....is that so hard?
that's why the b5/b5.5 were such great designs........there is a lot of space back there....

this version of the passat from the outside is very camry like.........

on a side note I saw a new jetta on the road and didin't reconize it at all except for the VW badge, only got the rear view of it and it didn't look too bad


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## jetta2002silver (Feb 28, 2005)

*Double Firewall*

Does anyone know if the new Passat has a double engine firewall, the same as the last Passat did? From what I remember it helps with making the quieter inside.


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## scooterboy (Jan 3, 2010)

*Ho Hum*

VW has done it again. They created an over grown bloated Jetta. Personally I think they've lost their way in the US. If they want to sell more cars here then they need to concentrate on their warranty and make it match that of Hyundai. Three years or 36k miles is laughable these days and who the hell cares about free oil changes for 3 years. I would rather have peace of mind with the warranty. They also need to get their average fleet fuel economy up over 42 MPG in order to compete. I'm sorry but selling us a TDi at a $1500.00 premium and claiming that they are so economical doesn't make sense. It takes too long to recover that cost, the fuel is too expensive and is messy to pump. It is often hard to find a diesel station in the city too.

The car is boring to look at to my eye and the only reason they went to the 2.5L 5 cyl is because it's cheaper than the 2.0T. Just like the Jetta they stick a cheap engine in the base model to claim a low starting price point. 

I've already pre-ordered a 2012 Ford Focus. So long VW......


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

scooterboy said:


> They also need to get their average fleet fuel economy up over 42 MPG in order to compete.


What competitor offers that, or even close to that? 



scooterboy said:


> I'm sorry but selling us a TDi at a $1500.00 premium and claiming that they are so economical doesn't make sense. It takes too long to recover that cost, the fuel is too expensive and is messy to pump.


People buy cars that require less fuel also for other reasons - less dependence on foreign oil and less CO_2 emissions, for example. I have no idea if the difference is $1,500, but let's just take that number and Jetta EPA consumption figures. If you assume gas prices to be around $4.00 over the next several years, and assume that the difference between regular and Diesel remains at $.25 (current US average), and if you drive 15,000 miles a year, then it takes just a bit over 4 years to recover the initial cost. It takes much less time if you drive more or more highway, or if you live in an area where Diesel is not as expensive (e.g., west coast), or if you take summer figures instead of winter figures, when Diesel is more expensive due to competition with heating oil. And if you decide to sell your car within a few years, you will get your money back anyway because of the documented higher resale value of Diesels.

Why is the fuel messy to pump? It's not at the stations I use. 



scooterboy said:


> It is often hard to find a diesel station in the city too.


On average, about every second station offers Diesel. How can that be hard to find? I have about 15 stations within a 1.5 mile radius from where I live - and I live in the suburbs. Finally, with the much longer range of Diesel, you have to actually worry less about finding a station.


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## pow (Jan 18, 2011)

the euro version looks pretty good to me, kit'd out, i want one


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## A_GaSpAr (Jan 10, 2005)

There was a NMS spotted in China with HID:


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## 16v_HOR (Jul 21, 2005)

Miro VR6 said:


> The new Camry is finally here!!


 ^This.



metagear89 said:


> Looks boring on the outside :thumbdown:
> Forget about the accord or camry. The new benchmark, in terms of exterior aesthetics, is the sonata.


Truth right here. As if the Sonata didn't have enough appeal already, VWOA had to go and make the Passat look just like the ugly and cheap looking Jetta. Looks like it will be a Sonata or used CC when I go to the dealers. Sorry VW, but you really dropped the ball on this one. :facepalm:


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

> Originally Posted by Boogety Boogety
> 
> Cars today have much better warranties than nine years ago, as you know.





TWinbrook46636 said:


> Uh, actually VW's warranties have gotten _shorter_.


_Still _better than the 2001 warranties, which, if you read in context, was what I was addressing. And when I said "cars today," I also meant the competition, most of which _exceed _VW's coverage; some, as in the case of Hyundai and Kia, up to 10 years/100,000 miles. Buyers pay attention to that: I have a sort-of neighbor with normally better sense who bought a Dodge minivan... a _Dodge! _ during the "lifetime warranty" window a few years back, when Chrysler was doing anything to stay alive. Swears he'll drive that POS forever... we'll see... :facepalm:


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## WERDNA75 (Jul 4, 2000)

*New Passat*

I think it looks a little boring too,but if that is what it takes for the American Masses (aka Boring people) to switch to a VW then I say cool. All the American car makers except Ford should go out of business because they make crap. Just the fact that you can get a Manual Transmission is impressive to me ,and the 20K starting price point if that happens. Im sure , better versions and maybe even a Wagon will be offered eventually with maybe even 4motion. If you Bagged one and stuck some Bentley wheels on it then I bet people would be lovin it...


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## Dmeyers (Jan 4, 2011)

Don't mind the front that much, but the rear... looks as if vw got too tired from designing the rest of the car and decided to make it look like every other Japanese sedan. :facepalm:


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## VW Jetta GLS (Jun 21, 2000)

People,

I don't get this discussion (as I have mentioned before). 

VW buyers have traditionally bought the Passat because of the Euro-appeal, the quality of the exterior and interior styling and the good (especially base) engine choices. They did not buy Passats (or other VWs) because of the stellar dealer network, after-purchase experience and reliability. The superior fit, feel and performance had to make up for those shortcomings.

Now you have a company with a bad dealer and service reputation offering a bland product ("designed in Germany, made in the USA) with weak styling and run-of-the-mill interior quality. How do you think this is going to end? As a general matter, VW does not sell its products in the low-price part of the segments it competes in (save the Phaeton). Why would that work here?

I don't know either.


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

Sorta reminds me of the 2ng Generation Q45....1997 called and wants back it's boxyness.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

Njaneer said:


> Sorta reminds me of the 2ng Generation Q45....1997 called and wants back it's boxyness.


Hasn't the Passat always been shaped that way?


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## Plasticar (Sep 5, 2003)

*diesel vs. gas*



feels_road said:


> If you assume gas prices to be around $4.00 over the next several years, and assume that the difference between regular and Diesel remains at $.25 (current US average), and if you drive 15,000 miles a year, then it takes just a bit over 4 years to recover the initial cost. It takes much less time if you drive more or more highway, or if you live in an area where Diesel is not as expensive (e.g., west coast), or if you take summer figures instead of winter figures, when Diesel is more expensive due to competition with heating oil. And if you decide to sell your car within a few years, you will get your money back anyway because of the documented higher resale value of Diesels.


Remember, if you are driving a 2.0T or 1.8T, you should already be pumping premium. Diesel and premium are within pennies usually, so the proposition gets better faster.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

Plasticar said:


> Remember, if you are driving a 2.0T or 1.8T, you should already be pumping premium. Diesel and premium are within pennies usually, so the proposition gets better faster.


Yes, exactly: when I compare vehicles I would purchase, if they are not Diesels they always have an engine in which _I_ would use premium (not that it is required, but it offers better performance and better fuel economy if you make use of the engine). And for most of the year at least here in CA, premium is typically more expensive than Diesel.

However, to be fair, most Camcord buyers abhor the idea of using premium - it's some weird US thing almost unheard of in Europe.


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## Jimmys2.8 (Aug 25, 2010)

Dear VW, now that I've seen what's become of your styling all I can say is the following, please don't ruin audi. Also, did you forget what performance is? Some people like it. Good job on the interior though.


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## Jimmys2.8 (Aug 25, 2010)

jetta9103 said:


> counterpoints...
> 
> Will the avg. passat buyer really notice 15 hp? No probably not...
> 
> ...


No sir 200hp - 175hp = 25hp, not 15hp so yes they will notice.

That is a difference of 12.5% horsepower. I won't consider this car with out a forced induction engine. Give me a sweet spooling small turbo 5cyl or a 2.0tsi/tfsi


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## im no hero x (Feb 26, 2007)

> Dear VW, now that I've seen what's become of your styling all I can say is the following, please don't ruin audi.


Too late. The B8 A4 is horrendous compared to the B7. All the Audis are starting to get pretty ugly now too! The new A8... Psh... Its so bad!!! 

I think they're starting to overdo it with the LEDs. I can't stand the Q7's updated tail lights... It makes the cars rear end look like a sleeping donkey or something. Now I'm just being picky :laugh:


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## Jimmys2.8 (Aug 25, 2010)

Yeah but the s5 is a beautiful thing as is the tt rs imo. B7 a4 is the best looking generation yet. The b8 was good when those led's were a new thing, looked mean. But audi still has its head above water unlike big brother vw.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

Jimmys2.8 said:


> Also, did you forget what performance is? Some people like it.


But keep in mind that those some people are not enough to justify staying in America. They need to appeal to a wider "most" people instead of just "some".


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## Plasticar (Sep 5, 2003)

*2012 Passat in the flesh*

I saw this car at the Detroit Auto Show. Not bad looking, if a little bland. The dash layout is pretty similar to the CC, which isn't bad. My main worry is that it doesn't have the mechanical goods. IMHO, the B5.5 was the best Passat, being built on the B5/6 A4 chassis. You got all of the upmarket goodness, interchangeability all the way up to S4 and RS4 parts, and important to me, you could get honest to goodness quattro (with a different namebadge) without stepping up to $40k for the VR6 and a full options list.

In our family we have had 3 B5.5 cars, plus a B5 and B6 A4. Loved every one, and all but one with quattro / 4mot. Neither of us will do without it now, so the B7 Passat is already dead to us. Why couldn't they have built it off of the last model B7 A4 chassis with an updated body structure? With the mechanical bits already developed and paid for, it should have been cheap enough in basic FWD trim, but allowing for AWD and other upmarket goodies for those willing to pay.

At the rate they're going, VW is going to mainstream themselves right out of my garage.


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

> At the rate they're going, VW is going to mainstream themselves right out of my garage.


THEY. DON'T. _CARE_. :what:

They don't want our _business_. They have stated, VW wants to be the dominant car manufacturer in the world. And that's a totally different goal from being a beloved and sought-after car company for a small sliver of the car-purchasing pie. :banghead:

The product they must produce now, to achieve their goal of car-world domination, is one that will appeal to as many breathing people with a license and a line of credit. They do need a variety of models to accomplish that goal, some sporty, some drop-dead gorgeous, some price-competitive, some that we would consider sell-outs to the masses. But the predominant need right now is to get bodies in the showrooms, and appealing to a larger, less-enthusiast-oriented, disinterested public in great numbers is key to hitting their milestones. Mainstreaming, indeed...


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## focal (Nov 19, 2000)

it's why BMW and Mini may be the last hope for enthusiasts...

Even BMW is slowly killing off great cars for N.A.

the 5 series wagon...the 5 series sedan with x-drive and with manual. not to mention the X3/X5 in manual

then there's Audi killing off the wagon in manual.

at this point, the best car VW offers is the Jetta/Golf TDI wagon and their GTI....and the toureg TDI.

saying that...the passat TDI will be at the top of my list if I decide on a large sedan. AWD is great...but a FWD is all I need to get around safely


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

Jimmys2.8 said:


> No sir 200hp - 175hp = 25hp, not 15hp so yes they will notice.
> 
> That is a difference of 12.5% horsepower. I won't consider this car with out a forced induction engine. Give me a sweet spooling small turbo 5cyl or a 2.0tsi/tfsi


I stand corrected.

But I hold my argument - we might notice. But will the average Passat buyer? No.

I'm pretty sure that it won't affect the buying decision of most Passat buyers - most won't even compare it to the previous generation.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

jetta9103 said:


> I'm pretty sure that it won't affect the buying decision of most Passat buyers - most won't even compare it to the previous generation.


Excatly... because most potential buyers of the new Passat probably never even noticed the B6. The sales numbers tell that story. it was too small, too pricey... and in turn not even considered. They went and brought an Altima, Accord, or Camry. Now with more competition from Kia, Hyundai, and Ford the car has to be comparable to those. And 170 HP is right there with the rest.

Malibu - 169 hp
Fusion - 175 hp
Accord - 177 hp
Sonata - 190 hp
Optima - 192 hp
Mazda 6 - 170 hp
Altima - 170 hp
Legacy - 170 hp
Kizashi - 180 hp

So I think the Volkswagen was right in their decision. But also I hear that it's just a hold over until a new 1.8T is ready which of course, probably will still be in that range, give or take.


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## VIVDUBBER (Nov 12, 2005)

*VWoA is thinking outside the box!*

In the past years of overproduction and "employee pricing" and other incentive to move car that simply destroyed the resale value VW and all other emerging car brands that have factory on US soil have all figure that if they already anticipate building cars in a particular country that has potentially decent consumption for that product they need to tip the scale by identify the trend of where the dollars are going.

Okay my initial reaction to the NMS photo were similar to everyone elses "WTF that is a jetta stretch in 4 directions, with even uglier headlight"! With that out of the way the truth is we here on this forum have never been too receiving of the new changes in the corporate faces that VW have donned. It does not feel like that long ago we all picked apart the PQ46 for its overly long overhangs due to its transverse engine layout. Many of us who had come to own a B5/B5.5 or 3B/3BG also did not fancy the departure of the from platform sharing with audi in the passat, because we felt it lost its edge in being that class benchmark from 12 years ago. Even back then the B5 was no prom queen. You could almost say that the B5 was overly boring too and don't talk about people confusing ti for it's little cousing the Jetta/Bora of the time. 

But the overly conservative desing today is what we call classic because both the B.5 and b5.5 style have aged well and still look relevant as we have seen other cars such as the altima and some fords mimick the styling.

Powerplants:

The other lure of the Passat was the adequate V6 engines and the highly tuneable turbo engines that offered both performance and somwhat economy, but lets all tell the truth they also had their teething issue to but still remain solid powerplants.

The truth is VWoA has lost lots of money over warranty issue with many of their vehicles produced to the relatively small number of people that have bought them. It is us enthusiants that end sticking with these cars knowing that they have minor issues in some cases.

VW is definitely raiding the parts bin to makes these cars affordable but I initially questioned why VW did not just bring back the 24V 2.8l VR6 that produced 201hp and make that the base engine of the NMS this would have covered the horse power requirements and give the perception of value with a comparable HP to the like of Hyundai/Kia and exceed the base engine of Honda and Toyota and you would have bragging rights to say I have a V6 standard. Since this is an old powerplant they already knew what shortcomings it had and could address that or even lowered the compression to make 87 the required fuel.

Cost of ownership:

We all are questioning the reason for decontenting the NMS but the bottomline is the "bottomline" in today's ecomony and stunted job availability you have to make ultimate choices based on your finances and some people would steer away from buying a car if it had to use runflat tires or needed $150.00 replacement HID capsule or other such pricey parts so with all of those things in mind keeping equipment basic there would hopefully give the perception that cost of operation would be reasonable low. We all may be bitching about the interior material but tell the truth with all the peeling soft touch paint who wants to deal with that, because the stuff looks nasty.


VW has to do something because what they were doing wasn't working for their bottom line. Don't get pissed because they could have tried to push fleet sales to all the rental agencies and then we all would have been upset that we were now driving the most popular rental cars around, imagine all the owner or Chryler sebrings how they must feel.


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## Jimmys2.8 (Aug 25, 2010)

capclassicv2 said:


> But keep in mind that those some people are not enough to justify staying in America. They need to appeal to a wider "most" people instead of just "some".


True but that's the point where I wpuld expect to see some vw innovation to appeal to both sides


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

Just today I was driving my MkV Jetta down the highway and a MkVI Jetta passed me and it wasn't till after a few minutes I realized what it was, I was like hmmm this usually doesn't happen, always noticed a VW... older models up to the MkVI Golf , GTI, Passat CC and etc...sure that's an easy one but the new Jetta, not happening folks. It's like another Camry or Accord went down the road.

Plainly put, the new Jetta and upcoming Passat look like they were designed by a graduate of The University of Boredom. VW gave the masses what they want, a car that blends into the woodwork and does not standout, guess this is part of their business plan to dominate the US Market? Brand loyalist may fly the coop, VW doesn't care...just don't empty the stable of exciting new none cookie-cutter decontented cars VW, please! You already dumbed down the two main players, is the Golf/GTI next? Let's hope not...


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

capclassicv2 said:


> Excatly... because most potential buyers of the new Passat probably never even noticed the B6. The sales numbers tell that story. it was too small, too pricey... and in turn not even considered. They went and brought an Altima, Accord, or Camry. Now with more competition from Kia, Hyundai, and Ford the car has to be comparable to those. And 170 HP is right there with the rest.
> 
> Malibu - 169 hp
> Fusion - 175 hp
> ...


2011 Sonata base mode is 200HP with a 274HP Turbo as an option. Neither require premium fuel. Same goes for the Kia Optima, same specs.

I think the 2.5 is going to be sluggish in the new Passat, it only really shines in my MkV Jetta when I drive in sport mode with gas mileage going down the toilet. The one thing they got right was offering the TDI, but it will be costly and out of reach of most buyers.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

Njaneer said:


> 2011 Sonata base mode is 200HP with a 274HP Turbo as an option. Neither require premium fuel. Same goes for the Kia Optima, same specs.
> 
> I think the 2.5 is going to be sluggish in the new Passat, it only really shines in my MkV Jetta when I drive in sport mode with gas mileage going down the toilet. The one thing they got right was offering the TDI, but it will be costly and out of reach of most buyers.


Fine print says, "200 horsepower on SE, 198 on GLS and Limited." So I was off by 8hp. 

Oh... and the 2.5L, 170 HP on the Jetta and new Passat doesn't require premium fuel neither. Not sure why would it be sluggish. What reason should it be, when the cars I listed either are just as big but all have engines around the same HP, giving or taking ~10 hp. Oh and those are selling pretty well, especially the Accord, Camry and Alitma.



Njaneer said:


> Just today I was driving my MkV Jetta down the highway and a MkVI Jetta passed me and it wasn't till after a few minutes I realized what it was, I was like hmmm this usually doesn't happen, always noticed a VW


And I can already tell we have different tastes, because I saw a new Jetta today as well... and noticed it RIGHT away. I notice every VW too, new and old... and whenever I've seen a new Jetta it's always caught my attention. I think it's a beautiful design and much better looking than the MKV and just as understated as a MKIV. But looks and tastes are subjective. And honestly, I notice almost every recent car anyway. Like I saw a new Elantra the other day, noticed it right away. It was silver and maybe it was the color but I didn't think it was all that special. *shrug*


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

capclassicv2 said:


> Fine print says, "200 horsepower on SE, 198 on GLS and Limited." So I was off by 8hp.


That's what she said...



capclassicv2 said:


> Oh... and the 2.5L, 170 HP on the Jetta and new Passat doesn't require premium fuel neither. Not sure why would it be sluggish. What reason should it be, when the cars I listed either are just as big but all have engines around the same HP, giving or taking ~10 hp. Oh and those are selling pretty well, especially the Accord, Camry and Alitma.


Yep I know I own a MkV Jetta with a 2.5, the base 4 cylinder in the Honda Accord is smoother and a better engine then then 2.5, lighter and has more horsepower. I don't see how putting this engine in the Passat is a great move. The car is going to shine with the TDI though and will need a VR6 and Turbo. Basically everything you can get from the competition now, don't have to wait for it. 



capclassicv2 said:


> And I can already tell we have different tastes, because I saw a new Jetta today as well... and noticed it RIGHT away. I notice every VW too, new and old... and whenever I've seen a new Jetta it's always caught my attention. I think it's a beautiful design and much better looking than the MKV and just as understated as a MKIV. But looks and tastes are subjective. And honestly, I notice almost every recent car anyway. Like I saw a new Elantra the other day, noticed it right away. It was silver and maybe it was the color but I didn't think it was all that special. *shrug*


Not exactly I notice plenty of cars and where I live I see them all. Maybe the GLI will change my perspective, can't say until it becomes a reality? Maybe it was the naked exhaust tips on the MkVI that did not catch my eye? You know the Bling that came standard on my MkV.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

lol that's exactly what we need, VW's with more chrome.


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

Njaneer said:


> Yep I know I own a MkV Jetta with a 2.5, the base 4 cylinder in the Honda Accord is smoother and a better engine then then 2.5, lighter and has more horsepower. I don't see how putting this engine in the Passat is a great move. The car is going to shine with the TDI though and will need a VR6 and Turbo. Basically everything you can get from the competition now, don't have to wait for it.


The 2.5 will do fine in the Passat. The 1.8t and the 2.5 put out similar numbers. There was no real reason to put the 2.0T in the B6 Passat except that the 1.8t was being phased out for the most part (2.0T became the new high volume engine). Like I said, most people will not care. If you want more power, buy the VR.



capclassicv2 said:


> And I can already tell we have different tastes, because I saw a new Jetta today as well... and noticed it RIGHT away.


I also have noticed the new Jetta, but that may be because I am looking for it. It is maybe plainer than other cars today, but it still is very VW, especially in the rear, and the huge VW emblem up front. the Mk6 styling is very reminiscint of the mk2 styling (both Golf & Jetta), especially up front, and the mk2 was never 'attractive' or fancy - VW enthusiasts think so (incl. me) because they mean something different to us.


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

capclassicv2 said:


> lol that's exactly what we need, VW's with more chrome.


Exhaust tips are polished stainless, not a big fan of the chrome grill on the MkV either but even the Golf has stainless tips on the exhaust. And a lot of the competition does as well. Just looks butt ugly and cheap without it on the new Jetta.


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

jetta9103 said:


> The 2.5 will do fine in the Passat. The 1.8t and the 2.5 put out similar numbers. There was no real reason to put the 2.0T in the B6 Passat except that the 1.8t was being phased out for the most part (2.0T became the new high volume engine). Like I said, most people will not care. If you want more power, buy the VR.
> 
> 
> 
> I also have noticed the new Jetta, but that may be because I am looking for it. It is maybe plainer than other cars today, but it still is very VW, especially in the rear, and the huge VW emblem up front. the Mk6 styling is very reminiscint of the mk2 styling (both Golf & Jetta), especially up front, and the mk2 was never 'attractive' or fancy - VW enthusiasts think so (incl. me) because they mean something different to us.


They will have to offer it with the 2.0T, when Hyundai and Kia is offering turbos. The VR6 will be too pricey and not a MPG concious vehicle. Having driven my 2.5 in the Jetta for a few years it was a step up from the 2.Slow in my MkIV and MkIII, but when I had a B6 Passat for several months with the 2.0T it was night and day. Having also driven a 1.8T Beetle, Jetta as well and they were night and day over the 2.SLOW. 2.5 may fair well for newcomers, but curb weight has not been listed I don't believe so I'm curious on how it will compare to the Jetta overall.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

Njaneer said:


> Neither require premium fuel. Same goes for the Kia Optima, same specs.


Nor does any modern VW.



Njaneer said:


> I think the 2.5 is going to be sluggish in the new Passat, it only really shines in my MkV Jetta when I drive in sport mode with gas mileage going down the toilet. The one thing they got right was offering the TDI, but it will be costly and out of reach of most buyers.


The Passat will not be much heavier than the Jetta, and has a better transmission. So, no.

Also, the TDI will get better highway mileage than any true mid-size vehicle out there, and will be less expensive than the alternative mid-size hybrids. Sure, you could try to argue it is out of the reach of most buyers the same way no one buys mid-size hybrids. But the reality is that around $25,000 is right in the middle of what US buyers spend - so it is _de facto_ not out of reach. It's just that no one buys mid-size hybrids - for good reasons.


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## Kandiru (Jun 15, 2004)

Another slusher for the huddled masses.

Where are the days when the highest trim
Passat could be had with a manual transmission?

This from my 2003 GLX:









Talk about taking the fun out of driving.


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

feels_road said:


> The Passat will not be much heavier than the Jetta, and has a better transmission. So, no.
> 
> Also, the TDI will get better highway mileage than any true mid-size vehicle out there, and will be less expensive than the alternative mid-size hybrids. Sure, you could try to argue it is out of the reach of most buyers the same way no one buys mid-size hybrids. But the reality is that around $25,000 is right in the middle of what US buyers spend - so it is _de facto_ not out of reach. It's just that no one buys mid-size hybrids - for good reasons.


Have you driven it? Neither have I, but in reality the 2.5 in the new Passat and performance is a TBD. Those that have a 2.5 in the Golf or MkV Jetta already know the engine, although it's far from the 2.Slow it's no where near the 2.0T

Official pricing has yet to be released, looking at what a TDI Jetta MSRP w/auto ($24,095) I do not think the Passat TDI will be $25K. The upcoming Sonata Hybrid is said to be in the $28K range where the Hybrid Ford Fusion falls. It will have similar range to the Jetta TDI around 40MPG. The advantage is, if regular fuel goes up, so will diesel..this is where Hybrids will have an advantage.


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

Njaneer said:


> Exhaust tips are polished stainless, not a big fan of the chrome grill on the MkV either but even the Golf has stainless tips on the exhaust. And a lot of the competition does as well. Just looks butt ugly and cheap without it on the new Jetta.


I can pretty much guarantee you that 98% of the potential Passat buyers (ie non-enthusiasts) do not even look at the exhaust tips.


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

Njaneer said:


> Official pricing has yet to be released, looking at what a TDI Jetta MSRP w/auto ($24,095) I do not think the Passat TDI will be $25K. The upcoming Sonata Hybrid is said to be in the $28K range where the Hybrid Ford Fusion falls. It will have similar range to the Jetta TDI around 40MPG. The advantage is, if regular fuel goes up, so will diesel..this is where Hybrids will have an advantage.


How will hybrids have an advantage if regular fuel goes up? They don't use regular fuel? Are you saying the Sonata Hybrid runs on air or something?


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

tomh009 said:


> I can pretty much guarantee you that 98% of the potential Passat buyers (ie non-enthusiasts) do not even look at the exhaust tips.


98%? Wow that's some good numbers 

At least they put them on the Passat SEL, though they are peashooters compared to the competition lol

New Passat:










Sonata Turbo


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## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

tomh009 said:


> How will hybrids have an advantage if regular fuel goes up? They don't use regular fuel? Are you saying the Sonata Hybrid runs on air or something?


Not exactly but to answer your question, Air powered cars exist:thumbup:


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## someguy123 (Sep 30, 2005)

So there's no subforum for this Passat yet? Why?


Is it safe to call it the *Passat B7*?


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## KahviVW (Feb 26, 2009)

someguy123 said:


> So there's no subforum for this Passat yet? Why?
> 
> 
> Is it safe to call it the *Passat B7*?


x2 It's time for a new B7 forum. While the admins are busy, they can start up the 2012 MkVII forum too. 5


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## VW Jetta GLS (Jun 21, 2000)

someguy123 said:


> So there's no subforum for this Passat yet? Why?
> 
> 
> Is it safe to call it the *Passat B7*?


It should be called Passat NMS. Passat B7 is the Euro version. This is a car made for the US market which has little to nothing to do with the Euro Passat and VW just happened to call it Passat. It is not a Passat in the sense we have known Passats in the past.


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## someguy123 (Sep 30, 2005)

VW Jetta GLS said:


> It should be called Passat NMS. Passat B7 is the Euro version. This is a car made for the US market which has little to nothing to do with the Euro Passat and VW just happened to call it Passat. It is not a Passat in the sense we have known Passats in the past.


Which leads to the question of how the mods will name the subforums, NMS and B7 separate or together?


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## KahviVW (Feb 26, 2009)

someguy123 said:


> Which leads to the question of how the mods will name the subforums, NMS and B7 separate or together?


I would guess a NMS forum and ignore the B7.


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## Amel (Sep 26, 2005)

blah

6.5 out of 10


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## ManTech (Oct 13, 2010)

:facepalm: Total Fail


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## Wolfrado (Dec 31, 2006)

*B6.5 & nms?*

The 2011 European version should be the B6.5. It is just an update of the B6 and is supposed to be replaced by 2013-2014 with an all new model. If the plan is still on then it will be accompanied by a convertible version to replace the EOS. 
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/S...w-Eos-in-2011-replaced-by-Passat-cab-in-2014/

This was the story about it from a few years ago. I wonder if the Euro version will have all of this stuff for 2014?
“The 2012 Passat might be shedding some weight, but that doesn't mean VW will skimp on the car's technical features — many of which are futuristic and have never even seen automotive applications. Look for the '12 Passat to sport an air suspension, a low-friction 4Motion all-wheel drive system, airless tires, a wiperless window cleaning system by Bosch, optional rear-wheel steering, an around view camera, ESP with countersteer assistance, a cruise control system that will know the speed limit, paint that can change color based on the current sent through it, personalized window graphics with message function and LED-film taillights.”
http://www.passatworld.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-265953.html


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## nick93mac (Apr 18, 2010)

I am worried. VW is getting more and more boring, and more and more cheap! The new Jetta makes me want to jump off a bridge :banghead:


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## YNotBoost1 (Mar 25, 2002)

I just posted this video in another thread but find it's relevant here as well. I'm no hyundai fanboy and still love my 10 year old jetta w/187k miles despite its, let's call them quirks (Failed coil packs, window regs, self-locking door, etc). I specifically purchased my jetta back in 2000 because of the engine (BTCC fan), styling, interior, and the fact it wasnt as common as civic's and corrolla's. I'm not emotionally moved by VW's current "US based" offerings, but then again if they are attempting to go mainstream, then I may no longer be their ideal demographic. 

Enjoy the video for what it is. A creative(slightly funny) advertising campaign that in my case peaked curiosity enough to visit their website to find out more.


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## someguy123 (Sep 30, 2005)

YNotBoost1 said:


> I just posted this video in another thread but find it's relevant here as well. I'm no hyundai fanboy and still love my 10 year old jetta w/187k miles despite its, let's call them quirks (Failed coil packs, window regs, self-locking door, etc). I specifically purchased my jetta back in 2000 because of the engine (BTCC fan), styling, interior, and the fact it wasnt as common as civic's and corrolla's. I'm not emotionally moved by VW's current "US based" offerings, but then again if they are attempting to go mainstream, then I may no longer be their ideal demographic.
> 
> Enjoy the video for what it is. A creative(slightly funny) advertising campaign that in my case peaked curiosity enough to visit their website to find out more.


The New Jetta commercial beats this! :laugh:


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## FGuri32 (Dec 26, 2007)

Wolfrado said:


> This was the story about it from a few years ago. I wonder if the Euro version will have all of this stuff for 2014?
> “The 2012 Passat might be shedding some weight, but that doesn't mean VW will skimp on the car's technical features — many of which are futuristic and have never even seen automotive applications. Look for the '12 Passat to sport an air suspension, a low-friction 4Motion all-wheel drive system, airless tires, a wiperless window cleaning system by Bosch, optional rear-wheel steering, an around view camera, ESP with countersteer assistance, a cruise control system that will know the speed limit, paint that can change color based on the current sent through it, personalized window graphics with message function and LED-film taillights.”
> http://www.passatworld.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-265953.html


How accurate is that?


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

nick93mac said:


> I am worried. VW is getting more and more boring, and more and more cheap! The new Jetta makes me want to jump off a bridge :banghead:


Not sure why - the Jetta is a very affordable car that still does many things much better than the Civrolla competition. 

But this is a thread about the new US Passat. What, exactly, is cheap or boring about it? It certainly looks way more dynamic and aggressive than the frumpy, short-wheel-base, huge overhangs, jelly-bean B6. It is also available with 2 extra engines, at start-up (TDI and 280hp VR6, and more to follow).


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## ManTech (Oct 13, 2010)

feels_road said:


> Not sure why - the Jetta is a very affordable car that still does many things much better than the Civrolla competition.
> 
> But this is a thread about the new US Passat. What, exactly, is cheap or boring about it? It certainly looks way more dynamic and aggressive than the frumpy, short-wheel-base, huge overhangs, jelly-bean B6. It is also available with 2 extra engines, at start-up (TDI and 280hp VR6, and more to follow).


The problem is VW has ALWAYS been very conservative with their designs, (which I like) but VW now wishes to increase their US sales by 800%!.... 800%! (Right now they only have slightly better than 2% of the overall market share.) They're not going to get there with "boring" cars, with familiar old names like Jetta, Passat, etc., using the same old boring TV ad ideas and a plant in Tennessee. These *old* recycled names conjure up old memories for those that dislike VW for various reasons. But VW desperately needs this crowd if they’re going to succeed with their NEW mission. VW's mission to attract a new crowd is a bold undertaking, but it required a fresh start according to the automotive press (which most people outside of Vortex read and take to heart), but they obviously didn't! A GRAND MISTAKE IMO! The NMS should have been their Fresh New Start Vehicle aimed straight at the heart of this new market share they desperately seek, instead the NMS is nothing more than an enlarged Jetta VI with a very old name from a troubled past, *Passat*.... I've seen this movie before... classic fail. :thumbdown:

Edit: I fear that after this car is introduced, there will be an initial surge in sales but after the *newness* wears off, VWoA will be straight back where they started. Plus I hope the new Beatle looks better than in the spy shots. It looks like a PT Cruiser that was left in a microwave for too long.... yuck! What's going on VW?


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

ManTech said:


> The problem is VW has ALWAYS been very conservative with their designs, (which I like) but VW now wishes to increase their US sales by 800%!.... 800%! (Right now they only have slightly better than 2% of the overall market share.) They're not going to get there with "boring" cars, with familiar old names like Jetta, Passat, etc., using the same old boring TV ad ideas and a plant in Tennessee. These *old* recycled names conjure up old memories for those that dislike VW for various reasons. But VW desperately needs this crowd if they’re going to succeed with their NEW mission. VW's mission to attract a new crowd is a bold undertaking, but it required a fresh start according to the automotive press (which most people outside of Vortex read and take to heart), but they obviously didn't! A GRAND MISTAKE IMO! The NMS should have been their Fresh New Start Vehicle aimed straight at the heart of this new market share they desperately seek, instead the NMS is nothing more than an enlarged Jetta VI with a very old name from a troubled past, *Passat*.... I've seen this movie before... classic fail. :thumbdown:
> 
> Edit: I fear that after this car is introduced, there will be an initial surge in sales but after the *newness* wears off, VWoA will be straight back where they started. Plus I hope the new Beatle looks better than in the spy shots. It looks like a PT Cruiser that was left in a microwave for too long.... yuck! What's going on VW?


I disagree...

I think it was a good move to keep the names Jetta and Passat because they are recognized with the VW brand here in America. New names would confuse people, especially once people realize they look just like the previous cars. Ford tried it with the Five Hundred and ended up going back to the Taurus name a few years later. They thought that since the Taurus was growing larger, they'd introduce a new model (Fusion) below it. If VW were to create a new model within the lineup then a new name would be appropriate from a business standpoint.

As far as the surge in sales... that happens with EVERY new car. I don't see how the sales of the new Passat (outside of volume) would be any different than a Sonata. New car, first few months people are excited and buying them left and right. Once enough are on the road, the pace slows down as the new car excitement disappears. That's not saying that it will sell worse or anything, just that it becomes another car to pick from. Just like a video game you're waiting to be released. Once you and your friends all have it, it loses the anticipation factor and either becomes a good game you played, or an over hyped game you played. Then you move on.

I've never been in the market for a Beetle, never cared to suggest it, and I sure don't care how the new one looks. Spy Shots are bad to judge by, so I would wait until the official release. With that said, what made the PT Cruiser a turd of a car wasn't it's shape. It was its design, build mechanics, interior quality, ride feel, etc, all stuff that VW is pretty good at. 

If the continued conservative approach isn't for you, then maybe VW isn't for you. We have a lot of pride on Vortex, and we always hope that VW puts out products for us, but as we grow up, if their direction isn't for us... there are cars out there that challenge this approach. And there is NOTHING wrong with buying an Optima, Sonata, Fusion or even a Camry if that's better for you than a Passat.

For me, I like the new Passat. Just based off photos, I like it much better than the B6 I had. But what I like isn't for everyone. Buy the car you like, because you like it... not based off the name or badge it wears.


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

someguy123 said:


> So there's no subforum for this Passat yet? Why?
> 
> 
> Is it safe to call it the *Passat B7*?





Wolfrado said:


> The 2011 European version should be the B6.5. It is just an update of the B6 and is supposed to be replaced by 2013-2014 with an all new model. If the plan is still on then it will be accompanied by a convertible version to replace the EOS.
> http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/S...w-Eos-in-2011-replaced-by-Passat-cab-in-2014/


I'd say B7 or NMS. B7 would be OK because it is simply a fanbase-accepted nomenclature for the Passat. The B3, B4 and B6 Passat's were never part of the "B" platform (where the original B1 and B2 convention came from). To make matters worse, B3 and B4 each received their own #, yet the B5 and B5.5 only got half a number. The amount of differentiation between both gaps was comprable...and no explanation there. I could try making my "we should use the 'mark' designations for the Passat too" argument again, but it will never catch on (Think 'mark' is reserved for the Golf/Jetta only? Tell that to the UK, where they've been using 'mark' to mean "generation" for decades).

But I digress...


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## FGuri32 (Dec 26, 2007)

feels_road said:


> Not sure why - the Jetta is a very affordable car that still does many things much better than the Civrolla competition.
> 
> But this is a thread about the new US Passat. What, exactly, is cheap or boring about it? It certainly looks way more dynamic and aggressive than the frumpy, short-wheel-base, huge overhangs, jelly-bean B6. It is also available with 2 extra engines, at start-up (TDI and 280hp VR6, and more to follow).


Pardon me but I believe the B6 passat is a better looking car than this. At least you can distinguish a B6 passat from an accord. This looks like a clone of the new accord. Fail. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

Nothing wrong with looking like an Accord. It is far from being a bad design and surely nothing hard on the eyes.


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## ManTech (Oct 13, 2010)

capclassicv2 said:


> I disagree...
> 
> I think it was a good move to keep the names Jetta and Passat because they are recognized with the VW brand here in America. New names would confuse people, especially once people realize they look just like the previous cars. Ford tried it with the Five Hundred and ended up going back to the Taurus name a few years later. They thought that since the Taurus was growing larger, they'd introduce a new model (Fusion) below it. If VW were to create a new model within the lineup then a new name would be appropriate from a business standpoint.
> 
> ...


Look, we're NOT talking about you, me or anyone on Vortex get it now?


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

But what I said still applies. Don't misunderstand the point, and don't think that the general public doesn't have some type of feeling towards the names Jetta and/or Passat. The mainstream driver that pulls me aside at a gas station or most recently at my emissions spot doesn't know what a Tiguan is. They see the VW logo, like the look and ask me what it is. Tiguan? What's that? Half the people can't even pronounce it right. Why come up with a brand new name for a car that is already recognized. That's my point. People, whether they cared or not... know what a Passat is. They either have little memory, or have read something, or remember older generations, but they know what it is. It is a bad business decision if they were to make up some brand new, weird name and expect the masses to flock to it.

Besides when I was speaking directly with you about VW's continued approach to design, my post can be taken and applied to anyone, enthusiast or mainstream driver. And just because the new Passat isn't working for you, doesn't mean it won't work for me, and enthusiast or Joe Schmo. VW believes that it's a balance between everyone and will be their biggest weapon to reach 800,000 vehicles.


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

jettamkIVvr6 said:


> Pardon me but I believe the B6 passat is a better looking car than this. At least you can distinguish a B6 passat from an accord. This looks like a clone of the new accord. Fail.


I perceive that singular opinion the same way as the MkIV owner's outcry against the MkV, and the MkV owner's blasting against the MkVI. VW owners generally seem to be a conservative and slightly narrow-minded bunch, design-wise speaking. Usually, half a year or a year later they come around, anyway, so I just find the entire thing simultaneously both amusing and frustrating. 

I have no idea why this happens every VW re-design --- especially since it is so utterly recurring and predictable, with little actual analysis of the formal design parameters by people commenting, and notwithstanding VW's rather steadfast form-follows-function philosophy ... which get's hammered when it is not followed closely enough (MkV and B6), and gets equally harshly criticized when it appears to have been followed just a hint too closely (B5 initially, and MkVI). In the end, most VW owners reconcile after several years (YMMV), whereas outside reviewers have a much more positive outlook from the get-go. 

I guess I take a more long-term view - one that spans several decades in automotive design. In the end, it seems that VWs have extreme longevity in their design. Something to think about. :beer:


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

In this case, more than a few comments are based on VWs stated goals for the car, rather than some sort of critical design analysis.

A bunch of us think VW is making a mistake by abandoning the customer base thAt they do have for one that they won't get. Time will tell, but I won't be buying one.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

chois said:


> A bunch of us think VW is making a mistake by abandoning the customer base thAt they do have for one that they won't get. Time will tell, but I won't be buying one.


The pricing alone will guarantee that the new Passat (and the Jetta) will be more successful than its predecessors.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

chois said:


> A bunch of us think VW is making a mistake by abandoning the customer base thAt they do have for one that they won't get. Time will tell, but I won't be buying one.


 Maybe I'm just looking at the glass half full. But I don't see why anyone who drives a VW of the past 10 or so years should think VW is abandoning them as a customer. In my opinion, VW still appreciates us, they just want to make a profit and have a correct reason to be here. Abandoning us would be if they took their company and went home. So the new Jetta is decontented, it still rides like a VW, it still smells like a VW, and it surely is designed like a VW. Considering that VW has other products with features that we like in quite a few different ranges in terms of price and size, I don't see how the company is headed in the wrong direction. 

I always thought turning to profit was a good thing. And I always thought that selling a car that people WILL buy (rather than say they'd buy but never really do) is a good thing. 

Honestly, I want a 400 hp AWD Audi Q5, that gets +50 MPG and costs under 20k. But that's not realistic (or possible). I think we're giving VW too hard of a time about this.


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## Jimmys2.8 (Aug 25, 2010)

They do still smell like a vw, no joke haha.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

Not to say that I sat in one JUST to rub the dash and sniff... but I made sure it was two of my reasons


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## accesscard (Jan 25, 2011)

*We need Passat 4 motion TDI wagon here- that would be your winner!*

Why bring another sedan with market already full of them! We need Passat 4 motion TDI wagon here- that would be your winner! And, also, please Transporter TDI.


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## focal (Nov 19, 2000)

how much do you think an Euro spec TDI wagon would sell for here in N.A.? 

with the low US$, high buidling costs of Europe...the import taxes for a German or European built car...the poor stigma of a wagon in the US? 

the last year of the Passat in 2010 saw less than 20k units...doubt a 2012 euro TDI wagon would get half of that...


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## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

There were 2329 Passat Wagons sold in the US in 2010. Along with 10,168 Passat Sedans.


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## andylyco (Apr 21, 2003)

Volkswagen execs or reps, if you're reading these enthusiast forums, a sincere thank you for combining a tdi with a manual transmission for our market (even though it's only a 5 speed). I won't trade my '09 Sportwagen (Golf Variant/Estate) TDI 6MT for it until I see a manual TDI Passat wagon (or a manual VR6 Passat ) but I do appreciate that there is a model that I _would_ happily own. :thumbup:


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## Wagon05 (Feb 7, 2005)

BUT - 

I see Cadillac wagons, Subaru (always been there) wagons, Ford is building a wagon (I would love to see a Buick wagon) why abandon the wagon when the auto world seems to be moving that way - Passat wagon is a great alternative to Volvo/Saab/Audi wagons


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## fflis (Jul 19, 2010)

Hmmm so they went 2.5 instead of 2.0T as their base. Essentially this will probably be impossible to find, and the 6cyl will be standard across most lots.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

I am pretty sure the 2.5 will be the volume model instead of the VR6.


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## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

Just out of curiosity, why is everyone under the impression that there won't be a US-built wagon? Is it in writing anywhere or have any of the VWoA execs confirmed or denied anything?


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

All I've read was that the wagon was not in the plans now... but they could always bring it a model year later. They don't need to rebuild a brand new car, so I'm sure if the demand is there, we're more likely to see it. Though a bit late, which is VW's thing apparently


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## Wolfrado (Dec 31, 2006)

*Passat Wagon?*

I have seen no mentions of a Passat wagon lately. Management has changed since then but a few years back they were talking about a CC wagon. 
http://www.carspyshots.net/showthread.php?t=16052 

Based on the the story below, the now seem focused on a new lower priced NMS based SUV to fill that need. 
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/07/bloomberg-vw-eying-expanded-suv-lineup-for-u-s/ 

My guess is that VW will focus their design, production, and marketing resources on the new all American SUVs and they won't build anymore Euro chic Passat Variants. VW's whole strategy is to copy Toyota and Honda both of whom have chopped their wagons.


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## v b chil-n (Nov 6, 2000)

Spotted not one but two new Passats following each other north on US 41 in FL on the way to work. I was heading the opposite direction and couldn't get to my phone fast enough to snap a pic. 

I must say the pictures don't do them justice, but the B6 still looks better IMHO


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## panzerlehr4 (Sep 10, 2010)

*Whats with this TDI engine.*

I am pretty disapointed with this TDI. Why is vw using two of the same engines in the Passat that they are using in the Jetta? Also, the 2.0 140hp, 236flbs tourqe TDI is basically the same engine that was in the 5 generation Passat TDI. Why cant we get a more powerful "power house" of a TDI this time around??


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

panzerlehr4 said:


> I am pretty disapointed with this TDI. Why is vw using two of the same engines in the Passat that they are using in the Jetta? Also, the 2.0 140hp, 236flbs tourqe TDI is basically the same engine that was in the 5 generation Passat TDI. Why cant we get a more powerful "power house" of a TDI this time around??


 Because VW is looking to meet a price point. A bigger more costly engine would raise the price and they feel people don't buy the Passat because of price. I'm sure they test drove it and decided that it was adequate for what they want to the Passat to be.


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

capclassicv2 said:


> Maybe I'm just looking at the glass half full. But I don't see why anyone who drives a VW of the past 10 or so years should think VW is abandoning them as a customer.


 Maybe because they flat out said so. VW has told the press that they are re-positioning their North American products, starting with the Jetta and Passat, to compete directly with the other main stream mid size sedan manufacturers - Honda, Toyota, et al. What that means to me, and what I see when I look at the new cars, is that they are changing the product so that it does not deliver the same benefits that the current customer base values, but will hopefully produce benefits that the new target customer base values. 

If you really think that the new crop of VWs are not a departure from their strategy over the past 15 years, then you probably meant to be purchasing your cars from the "appliance" manufacturers at Toyota or others all along. 

For what it's worth, I don't mean to convey that I am personally saddened or betrayed by this strategic decision by VWoA. I just don't think it will be as successful as they hoped, and recognize that if it is not, they will have lost the attention of the group of customers that they have today. It puts them in a must win situation IMO, which is a dangerous place to be in such a competitive segment.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

chois said:


> Maybe because they flat out said so. VW has told the press that they are re-positioning their North American products, starting with the Jetta and Passat, to compete directly with the other main stream mid size sedan manufacturers - Honda, Toyota, et al. What that means to me, and what I see when I look at the new cars, is that they are changing the product so that it does not deliver the same benefits that the current customer base values, but will hopefully produce benefits that the new target customer base values.
> 
> If you really think that the new crop of VWs are not a departure from their strategy over the past 15 years, then you probably meant to be purchasing your cars from the "appliance" manufacturers at Toyota or others all along.
> 
> For what it's worth, I don't mean to convey that I am personally saddened or betrayed by this strategic decision by VWoA. I just don't think it will be as successful as they hoped, and recognize that if it is not, they will have lost the attention of the group of customers that they have today. It puts them in a must win situation IMO, which is a dangerous place to be in such a competitive segment.


 You can not put words into their mouths. They still continue to offer products for enthusiast. But understand that VW has never been a brand that just catered to small section of enthusiasts. Why you or anyone else made that assumption is beyond me. Volkswagen has ALWAYS been the People's Car. They've been small cheap, fun cars from Germany that can be had by anyone with a few dollars. The problem came when they spoiled everyone with more premium cars. Nothing wrong with premium but it didn't work for them, period. The problem is that with premium cars, they got too expense, too complicated and very unreliable. Because no mainstream buyer wanted to be left on the side of the road in a VW, enthusiast loved cars decided to claim VW as an enthusiast brand. And that mentality comes back up every few years when VW releases a new model.  

VW is trying to correct what's holding them out of the mainstream by repositioning themselves back into the "People's Car" by offering their brand of vehicles in key segments because being premium wasn't working. Because it's obvious they weren't selling the way they'd like. If anything they're helping us afford cars that probably actually work. 

It amazes me how much hate people have for a car they didn't own. For a car that hasn't even come on sale yet. Or talk about VW isn't caring about their current customers and then compare them to Toyota as if Toyota makes the worst cars ever. Well Toyota sold 1,763,595 million cars in 2010. Volkswagen sold 256,830 which is less than Subaru and BMW. But oh yeah... I forgot, those other cars don't have the soul of VW so they have to be worst.


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

capclassicv2 said:


> You can not put words into their mouths. They still continue to offer products for enthusiast. But understand that VW has never been a brand that just catered to small section of enthusiasts. Why you or anyone else made that assumption is beyond me. Volkswagen has ALWAYS been the People's Car.


 According to bnet (CBS) at last years LA Auto Show, VWoA CEO Johnathon Browning said: 
“We’re betting heavily on the U.S. market,” ...“with models specifically tailored to American needs.” VW has invested $4 billion in the U.S., he said, and that’s clearly in anticipation of a big payoff on a relatively few models. If VW succeeds, *Americans will include the VW dealership for a look at the NMS when they take a mid-market tour that includes tire kicks of the Accord and Camry*." I don't know that we can infer much else from that statement than that VW is making their products more like the Camry and Accord, so that people will cross shop them. 

I am not making assumptions. I am making an observation that the strategy VWoA is employing is very high risk. I backed those observations up by suggesting there is a gap in product performance expectations between the existing customer base and the new target customer base. Thus when changing the product characteristics to meet a new set of expectations, they are by default changing it _away_ from the current customer group's expectations/preferences. This has nothing to do with what specific product attributes we are discussing, be they looks, interior comfort or performance. 

What I did not say is that VW as a brand caters to a small group of enthusiasts. You seem to be the one putting words into people's mouths here. Since you seem to be unfamiliar with how to hold an engaging, intelligent conversation, or even debate, I'll just offer the simple tip to reconsider commanding that I, or whomever else you are preaching to "understand" what your perception of the issue is, without offering any sort of supporting evidence other than your apparent emotional attachment to the phrase "people's car". 



capclassicv2 said:


> They've been small cheap, fun cars from Germany that can be had by anyone with a few dollars.


 This statement might have some meaning if it included a time period which you are referring to. VW certainly has been those things, at certain points in time. They have also been small, low quality, over priced, fun to drive German cars, as well as medium sized, above average priced, fun performing German cars with quality control flaws and large, high priced German luxury cars that no one in the North American market wanted to own at a price competitive with the German luxury car segment. 



capclassicv2 said:


> The problem came when they spoiled everyone with more premium cars. Nothing wrong with premium but it didn't work for them, period. The problem is that with premium cars, they got too expense, too complicated and very unreliable. Because no mainstream buyer wanted to be left on the side of the road in a VW, enthusiast loved cars decided to claim VW as an enthusiast brand. And that mentality comes back up every few years when VW releases a new model.


 It is appears that you equate auto market success with main stream auto consumers and high volume. I would challenge that theory, and suggest that market success can be achieved in niche markets if the product positioning strategy, and actual product delivered suit the needs and desires of that market segment. While most examples that could be offered are in a premium segment, such as Ferrari, I think VW was in a position to improve their cost and quality levels, as well as the customer experience offered by the dealer network and deliver a unique product in an uncrowded segment. This would be a lower volume strategy to be sure, but not necessarily a less profitable one. 

For what it's worth, I never met a car enthusiast, VW or otherwise, that wants to be left at the side of the road either. 



capclassicv2 said:


> VW is trying to correct what's holding them out of the mainstream by repositioning themselves back into the "People's Car" by offering their brand of vehicles in key segments because being premium wasn't working. Because it's obvious they weren't selling the way they'd like. If anything they're helping us afford cars that probably actually work.


 Huh? Helping "us" afford cars that "probably" actually work? Really? 
No auto maker helps me afford anything. They offer products, I decide if I place enough value in that offering to pay what they are willing to sell them for, and I include reliability in that value calculation, then I purchase their offering. 

VW failed to execute their previous strategy well, for a lot of reasons. That doesn't mean that embarking on a new strategy will automatically benefit them. 



capclassicv2 said:


> It amazes me how much hate people have for a car they didn't own. For a car that hasn't even come on sale yet. Or talk about VW isn't caring about their current customers and then compare them to Toyota as if Toyota makes the worst cars ever. Well Toyota sold 1,763,595 million cars in 2010. Volkswagen sold 256,830 which is less than Subaru and BMW. But oh yeah... I forgot, those other cars don't have the soul of VW so they have to be worst.


 For the record, since you have this habit of attributing statements and positions to others on their behalf, I don't have any sort of hate for VW, their products or any other car for that matter. I am not suggesting that VW cares or does not care about their loyal customers. I don't think Toyotas are bad cars, or that selling more cars means they are "better" cars. 

I don't much go for these tit-for-tat threads, so I'm out.:heart:


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

Maybe you just haven't read the overwhelming comments lately about VW's products lately. On this forum, on their site comments, on their facebook pages, on their youtube accounts. I'm not putting words into anyone's mouths. If you feel a certain way, then you feel a certain way. Maybe you aren't one of the people who I've read, and if that's the case you shouldn't feel guilty about it. I'm stating only how I see the situation at VW, my opinion. I'm not trying to make you believe what I believe, but I am trying to make you understand where I am coming from because that's how two different sides can come to a middle point. 

But sorry that you look down on my post as if it's not a engaging or intelligent, and that you misunderstood everything I've said. Maybe you just decided to miss the message because you wanted to feel important. Idk. But what I do know is, people have a right to their opinions, therefore I have a right to state my opinions on what I read, which is why my original post to you was quoted and I explained WHY I disagreed. But apparently, you... 



> ...don't have any sort of hate for VW, their products or any other car for that matter. I am not suggesting that VW cares or does not care about their loyal customers. I don't think Toyotas are bad cars, or that selling more cars means they are "better" cars.


 Yet you said... 



> A bunch of us think VW is making a mistake by abandoning the customer base thAt they do have for one that they won't get. Time will tell, but I won't be buying one.


 And then you added... 



> VW has told the press that they are re-positioning their North American products, starting with the Jetta and Passat, to compete directly with the other main stream mid size sedan manufacturers - Honda, Toyota, et al. What that means to me, and what I see when I look at the new cars, is that they are changing the product so that it does not deliver the same benefits that the current customer base values, but will hopefully produce benefits that the new target customer base values.


 Which I said that I thought it was a good idea, and explained why I thought that. So you don't understand or don't agree. That's fine. But in my opinion, success in business is judged on how well you can sell your product or service. So if VW is aiming to be number 8th in North America then they succeeded. But they want to be more, and they need to sell more, and success is judged on that.


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

vwbugstuff said:


> There were 2329 Passat Wagons sold in the US in 2010. Along with 10,168 Passat Sedans.


 And Toyota and Honda combined sold _multiples _of that amount. That's the whole point, isn't it... :banghead: 



> “We’re betting heavily on the U.S. market,” ...“with models specifically tailored to American needs.” VW has invested $4 billion in the U.S., he said, and that’s clearly in anticipation of a big payoff on a relatively few models. If VW succeeds, Americans will include the VW dealership for a look at the NMS when they take a mid-market tour that includes tire kicks of the Accord and Camry." I don't know that we can infer much else from that statement than that VW is making their products more like the Camry and Accord, so that people will cross shop them.


 /\ This... :wave:


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## Peter_Rabbit (Aug 9, 2005)

I saw the new passat at the portland auto show. Elegant but very bland. The VW rep suggested that a wagon and 4motion variations will follow along. Based on the people interested in the Passat, I'd call it an old persons car.


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

Peter_Rabbit said:


> Based on the people interested in the Passat, I'd call it an old persons car.


 The Passat has always targeted an older demographic than other VW products. None of the Passat generations (bar maybe B1) broke any new ground or generated real excitement as far as styling goes.


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## Peter_Rabbit (Aug 9, 2005)

Well I thought I was an older person (43 years old) and I thought I was in the Passat demo, but based on the people excited about the Passat, I'd say that I need to re-consider. Am I too old for a GTI?


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## Jimmys2.8 (Aug 25, 2010)

Clutch placement is horrible, literally right in the middle of the floor neither foot would be comfortable operating it


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## anthonymindel (Dec 8, 2007)

Wolfrado said:


> I have seen no mentions of a Passat wagon lately. Management has changed since then but a few years back they were talking about a CC wagon.
> http://www.carspyshots.net/showthread.php?t=16052
> 
> Based on the the story below, the now seem focused on a new lower priced NMS based SUV to fill that need.
> ...


 Although Acura have just launched the sporty TSX wagon,which is really a European Honda Accord wagon.Expect to sell 4000 of them this year,which is a very conservative figure...


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## randomkoreanguy (Jul 20, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> In person the car looks well proportioned. The sheetmetal has nice details, the shape is handsome and it overall looks better in the flesh. Inside the car is really well done. You can tell that (versus the Jetta especially) people really, really sweat the details on this car. The soft touch dash and plastics, the available options, the thunk of the door closing, the window switchgear and much, much more all show the typical attention in details that we've come to expect and know from VW over the last 12 years.
> 
> When you factor in the new price it is even more impressive. This is how they should have done the Jetta. Essentially you'll be able to buy a $21,000 Passat that is much nicer than a $22,000 Jetta.
> 
> -jamie


 Quote from Jamie taken from a different thread. Styling aside (which is honestly very subjective), the new American Passat seems decent. Aside from the larger size, I don't see much of a drawback and a huge number of positives (locally built, significantly lower price, still retains quality interior, similar engine choices). Granted there's no wagon version and no 4Motion offered (as of yet), but overall I think it stands to be very competitive because it addresses some of the largest complaints about the last Passat (size and pricing), while still retaining many of the positive aspects (interior materials, premium quality, European feel). 

Maybe an AWD and wagon version will come later once the factory is setup to produce the new (rumored) American SUV (which will no doubt offer AWD of some sort), since at that point the factory will be setup to build AWD drivetrains. (Supposedly the new SUV will share components with our Passat for cost savings.) Even though no one has really driven it yet, I'm sure the ride retains the right feel and European characteristics that have come to be expected from a VW badged car, since even reviews of the MKVI Jetta comment favorably about the handling (despite the torsion bar suspension in the rear). 

The Camry and Accord sedans sell units that number somewhere in the hundreds of thousands per year (I think approaching 300k, if not more) and even the new Sonata is approaching 200k. Compare that to the Passat's sales numbers and you'll see exactly why VW decided to give us our own version of the Passat and not just a continuation of the European one. And to be honest, as long as they don't sacrifice the things that make it a premium European car in their pursuit of higher sales numbers, I don't see a unique American market Passat as necessarily being a bad thing in and of itself. A lot of people are making Toyota comparisons, but I think (and hope) that VW is taking more of a Hyundai/Kia approach and trying to offer value for money. I mean let's be honest, Toyota still puts 4-speed automatics in some of its models and seems to have all but abandoned their enthusiasts. I don't think VWoA has descended to that kind of low. (I'm actually hoping this is hugely successful so that they have the money to justify releasing more performance models stateside. )


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## randy (Feb 18, 1999)

What happened to this?


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

randy said:


> What happened to this?


 
_Reality_ is what happened... :sly: 

_Kodachrome... You give us those nice bright colors, you give us the greens of summers, 
Makes you think all the world's a sunny day, oh yeah! 

I got a Nikon camera, I love to take photographs, so Mama, don't take my Kodachrome away... 

If you took all the girls I knew when I was single, and brought them all together for one night, 
I know they'd never match my sweet imagination, everything looks worse in black and white... _ :laugh:


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## EC Transplant (Aug 27, 2005)

I'm a little late to the party, but after having seen a few TV shows that have showed the new Passat, I feel compelled to voice my dissappointment. 

I'll say it again, the styling is bloody awful. Yes this is subjective, but the front end is just way to hard edged for the rest of the lines on the car. I'll take the Juke over this anyday. 

Maybe I'm not really so attuned to mid-size car buyer's needs/wants/desires, but even looking at them on tv, you can see where the cost cutting has been done, like doing away with struts for the hood and trunk and replacing them with a more conventional openning trunk and a hood support. 

Maybe they will sell more cars overall, but touches such as the ones I mentioned is what differentiated VW as an affordable European car--now they will have a car that is just like the rest, but with the stigma (still) of VW quality.


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## tomh009 (Nov 28, 2001)

randy said:


> What happened to this?


 As always, the sketches look longer, lower (especially in the greenhouse) and wider than the real car. Other than that, the details on the production car match the sketch quite closely. Closely enough, that I think the production car had already been finalized when the sketches were made.


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## sda100175 (Feb 1, 2011)

VW is doing what they need to do to meet their sales goals. The A5 Jetta / B5.5 Passat were both mis-cast. The Jetta was too expensive (and really, too nice) for the car's target Civic market. The Passat was too expensive for it's target Accord market! If you had a Passat budget, there was more reason to consider the CC. Models were stepping on each other's toes and not falling into the parameters most American buyers put themselves into.

That's changing now. The Jetta is clearly an option now for "Civrolla" shoppers, while maintaining the VW edge of nicer interior and a refined ride. Likewise, the Passat will show up in "Camcord" shoppers lists, with the same VW plusses.

And the CC now occupies a niche all its own in the higher end, and VW should engineer it to compete in the 3 series / C-class / A4 segment.

Most folks, when they shop, have a few specific parameters in mind, and price is *always* one of them. With the model refreshes over the past year, VW has addressed its un-competitiveness in this important factor.


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## TOMPASS (Apr 6, 2010)

tomh009 said:


> As always, the sketches look longer, lower (especially in the greenhouse) and wider than the real car. Other than that, the details on the production car match the sketch quite closely. Closely enough, that I think the production car had already been finalized when the sketches were made.


X2. Just saw one at the Philly Auto Show. Very nice car. I like VW's design language, and the Passat is a very nice addition. I can do without the vertical chrome elements in the grille, but some blackout tape would cure that.
The interior shouldn't disappoint any VW person: any cost-cutting didn't turn this into another new Jetta. The soft touch and quality bits are all there. I think the interior design is a great improvement over the current B6, with one exception: too many distracting shiny bits that interrupt the flow and continuity of the overall design. My reference point is the interior of my B5.5: the chrome trim is limited to the instrument dials and transmission lever trim. I added a thin piece of chrome molding to the joint between the upper and lower dash and continued it onto the doors to brighten things up a bit (I think the W8 had similar trim.) This quibble isn't limited to VW-just about everything I looked at had similar overuse of shiny bits.
The car on display was an SEL model; I'm looking forward to seeing the S and SE trims. 
If it drives and handles like a VW should, I'd take the Passat over the Jetta and any of its competition. :thumbup:VW


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## Wolfrado (Dec 31, 2006)

*Passat @ Philadelphia Autoshow*

Tompass did you sit in the Passat at the Philly auto show or is it up on a turntable for display only? Did they only have one there?


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## TOMPASS (Apr 6, 2010)

Wolfrado said:


> Tompass did you sit in the Passat at the Philly auto show or is it up on a turntable for display only? Did they only have one there?


They o_ly have 1, a_d yes, you ca_ sit i_ it. (My key_oard has sudde_ly decided that it dislikes the missi_g letters a_d wo_'t pri_t them, sorry)


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## Boogety Boogety (Jun 22, 2003)

TOMPASS said:


> They o_ly have 1, a_d yes, you ca_ sit i_ it. (My key_oard has sudde_ly decided that it dislikes the missi_g letters a_d wo_'t pri_t them, sorry)


Dam_ shame. You should_'t have to e_dure such i_compete_cy... :facepalm:


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## Jimmys2.8 (Aug 25, 2010)

I sat in both jetta and passat at dc auto show and both surprised me. I really like the interior of both cars. Jetta would be perfect if only it had a little bit thicker steering wheel.


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## [email protected] (Sep 3, 2009)

2012 Passat Super Bowl commercial is out:






I like it! :snowcool:


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

I like it too... pretty cute commercial.


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## not_too_shabby (Apr 30, 2001)

I checked the new passat out at the autoshow. I thought the interior was decent. Better than I expected. The exterior was a bit plain, but not as hideous as the jetta. A TDI with the DSG and 700+ mile range is certainly enticing after 2.5 years in my mazda CX-9 at 15MPG and barely 280 MPG range. Any word if there will be a wagon version? I miss my B5.5 passat 1.8T.


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## [email protected] (Sep 3, 2009)

not_too_shabby said:


> I checked the new passat out at the autoshow. I thought the interior was decent. Better than I expected. The exterior was a bit plain, but not as hideous as the jetta. A TDI with the DSG and 700+ mile range is certainly enticing after 2.5 years in my mazda CX-9 at 15MPG and barely 280 MPG range. Any word if there will be a wagon version? I miss my B5.5 passat 1.8T.


No, no wagon planned at this time....


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## v b chil-n (Nov 6, 2000)

I'm sure a wagon will follow, maybe for 2013, the folks over the pond have this now.


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## Zam's passat (Feb 28, 2010)

I just saw it at the Philadelphia auto show and i was really disappointed  . 
I like my b6 alot better


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## [email protected] (Sep 3, 2009)

v b chil-n said:


> I'm sure a wagon will follow, maybe for 2013, the folks over the pond have this now.


Don't hold your breath, the car in Euro is just a facelifted version of the B6. And Europe sells wagons. We don't buy them in the US, so designing a car just for this market for a small expected audience may be a tough sell in the boardroom.......


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## v b chil-n (Nov 6, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Don't hold your breath, the car in Euro is just a facelifted version of the B6. And Europe sells wagons. We don't buy them in the US, so designing a car just for this market for a small expected audience may be a tough sell in the boardroom.......


It must be the opposite here in FL where wagons out number sedans at least from what I've seen.


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## Wolfrado (Dec 31, 2006)

*Sat in the NMS – Tall Driver Report = Fail*

I sat in the new Passat at the Philadelphia auto show today. It was an SEL with the 2.5. The interior had black vinyl seats with alcantara (suede like cloth.) From the pictures I was disappointed by the exterior styling of the new design but in person it was understated and quite handsome. Both inside and out it was much more sophisticated than anything else that I saw at the show in its class.

I am 6’4” and I have to crouch down when sitting in the back of most cars including the B6 Passat, Optima, Sonata, Mazda 6, Taurus, and Camry. The back seat of the new Passat was a revelation; it actually had enough headroom for me to sit comfortably without sitting like a hunchback. 

The interior looked pretty good too. Some materials are a minor step down from the B6 but it was still quite nice and ahead of anything in its class. There is soft touch plastic in the important places, although the hard plastic on the side door panels are a bit coarser and cheaper looking than in the past. A height adjustable armrest would have been nice too. 

Overall the car seemed like a big win and had all but made up my mind to buy one …and then I sat in the driver’s seat. The seat was very supportive and well designed for an average size driver BUT the top part of the seat curves in aggressively (to hug the shoulders) which was very uncomfortable for me. It pushes me so that I am leaning forward. Then I tried to adjust the angle of the lower seat cushion to compensate and found that once I lowered the seat it will not raise the front part of seat cushion independently. The front of the seat will not raise and instead the back of the seat raises to tip me further forward. It seems like they saved a few bucks by eliminating some seat adjustments. As a tall American I really don’t think that I can drive this thing comfortably. I’ll give it another shot but for now I am out. That being said, after looking at Passat and its competition, I think that it will be a class leader and with effective marketing it will be a sales success.

Observations on other cars at the show:
I wasn’t very impressed by most of the new cars out there. It seems like the economy is taking its toll on interior quality. Maybe I’m just used to my VW interior?
New Eos looked much better but no one even noticed the car. No manual trans - COME ON!? 
Not even a mention of the 21st Century Beetle which seemed like a major marketing oversight
I didn’t care for the clock and other minor interior changes to the CC 
Jetta is cheaper on the inside but is still seems like the best design in its class. 
Hyundai Elantra & Mazda 3 seemed junkier than the Jetta and had some pretty weird design features inside and out.
The Kia Optima was very drab on the inside. 
Suzuki Kizashi was pretty nice on the inside but I didn’t have enough headroom even in the front seat! Their display was awfully lonely.
Fiat 500 seemed to be getting a lot of positive attention while people were hating on the Smart Car. 
There was a swarm of old Italian men around the 500. They were so proud. It was like they were meeting their new grandchild for the first time. 
Saab didn’t even show up to show – uhh ohh
Chevy Cruze is hansom but very small on the inside. Seemed significantly smaller than the Jetta IV 
Mini needs an update. Their interiors are starting to look stale.
Buicks are definitely getting nicer although their button arrays and light blue backlighting didn’t speak to my European car sensibilities.
I used to appreciate the Mazda 6 but it seemed tired and rather low rent compared to Passat and others 
MX-5 has way too much going on in the inside. That car would be way cooler if they took out about 50 pounds of plastic from the interior and dumped most of the power accessories. It’s not a real car it’s a sports car! Oh yeah and its called a MIATA so stop it with that MX-5 B.S.!
Subaru Legacy needs a fender job and fast
Impreza concept was the best looking Subaru since ever


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## Wagon05 (Feb 7, 2005)

*No Wagon*

Would make perfect sense to not offer the American based Passat in a variant . After all, look at list of companies with new wagon offerings (or perhaps planning ) to offer wagons: 

1. Cadillac
2. Acura 
3. Buick (may be the one for me) 
4. Ford 


VW has a leg up on producing wagons - the Jetta Wagon is nice but - need a Passat Wagon to complete against these


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## Jimmys2.8 (Aug 25, 2010)

I think it will be delayed a year, like b7 a4 cabriolets


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

randy said:


> What happened to this?


The Euro version is much closer to the rendering.

Plus, do you remember seeing this in Motor Trend? They should have made it like this? What is VW afraid of when it comes to a little progressive styling? They're going way too conservative IMO. Maybe they're watching too much Fox! :laugh:


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## ManTech (Oct 13, 2010)

^ I like that!


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## sda100175 (Feb 1, 2011)

It's kinda funny how many complaints there are about the styling. VW has been a conservative company when it comes to styling. This design will age well. And the new Jetta is very nice from the outside, it's the interior that is lacking.

BTW, styling is also very subjective. I know the MkIV Jetta is well-loved for its looks, but to me it looks like a Chevette.


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## vwtool (Jul 21, 2003)

1) We're Wal-Mart nation now. Get used to it. Americans are by and large price shoppers, not quality shoppers. To most average consumers here, it's just plain stupid to pay even $1,000 extra for a VW, with all the benefits we enthusiasts appreciate, when they can get a similar-sized Asian car for less.

2) Enthusiasts suck. Or rather, we don't buy enough cars. All the bitching done in this thread and countless others like it doesn't move cars off VW dealer lots. Period, end of story. 

3) The enthusiast free-ride is over. We've been getting near-Audi quality for the last several years for a small premium over Asian-car prices. Those days are coming to a close. It seems VW is putting the _Volks_ back into Volkswagen.

4) You're a bunch of picky bitches. :laugh: I own a 2010 GTI and the new Jetta interior isn't the end of the world. Man up and pay for the GLI and the only thing left to gripe about is, what, trunk hinges? Seriously?

5) This is 'Murca, the land of shopaholic land-manatees who love big cushy seats for their big cushy asses and big trunks for all the crap they buy. You want dinky manual transmission station wagons, move to Europe. Canada, maybe, you tree-hugging p*ssy. Christ knows I'm considering it.


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## mexglx (Apr 22, 2003)

vwtool said:


> 1) We're Wal-Mart nation now. Get used to it. Americans are by and large price shoppers, not quality shoppers. To most average consumers here, it's just plain stupid to pay even $1,000 extra for a VW, with all the benefits we enthusiasts appreciate, when they can get a similar-sized Asian car for less.
> 
> 2) Enthusiasts suck. Or rather, we don't buy enough cars. All the bitching done in this thread and countless others like it doesn't move cars off VW dealer lots. Period, end of story.
> 
> ...


O no U Din't.... He brought da gun to the knife fight.eace: 

I agree with everything u said though. I bought a 3 yr old B6 wagon 3.6 for $18,500 and it was MSRP at $40K in '07. Who paid $40K for a Passat? Yeah there are a TON of cool features that I will probably never get on new Passat again. Thats OK if the engine, the suspension and reliability are there. Especially if i can get a new one for just a bit more than what i payed for a 3 year old one. 
Just don't hate on Wal-Mart though. I go there at 2am to make myself cheer up every now and then. Its cheaper than therapy!:laugh:


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## kdubvdub (Sep 30, 2009)

I guess I'm a little slow to respond to this. I just saw it in Car and Driver's July Issue. Car is nicely styled and just the right size. I'm happy they didn't go crazy like Hyundai did with the Sonata, or dullsville like Chevy does with the Impala. I'm happy that they kept the TDI, what a great engine without the unknown reliabilty of a Hybrid. When its time to get rid of my F150, I hope I can one with a TDI and 5 speed manual tranny.


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## mkvlady (Jun 11, 2011)

It isn't something that stands apart from any of the other cars out there. It looks so... Plain! :thumbdown:


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