# GUIDE: How to adjust your timing



## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

Many people wonder how to adjust both their camshaft and ignition timing. 
Its very easy. Just say..... Thanks Black_cabbie and here is 5 bux for you! 
So, 
Suppose everything is messed up or you are rebuilting your engine so I will start from scratch. 
The Camshaft pulley has 2 important marks on it. A little notch on the engine side and a OT mark on the other side. 
The flywheel. it has 2 marks. One notch showing the 6 degrees BTDC (*B*efore *T*op *D*ead *C*enter) and a little dot showing the TDC. 
The dizzy. It has a notch. 
Removing the spark plugs (if they are not out already) helps a lot. 
Turn the engine BY HAND until you get this mark in the flywheel. 








The little 0 mark in the center of the Hole in the gearbox. Thats the TDC mark. It means the No1 piston is in TDC position and both inlet and outlet valves are closed. maximum compression in the chamber. 
That means that the spark plug is supposed to fire when the piston is at that point. 
You might also have this type of flywheel.... it has only the 6 degrees BTDC mark.








If you are not sure about the flywheel, insert a long screwdriver in No1 cylinder through the spark plug hole and check while slowly turning the engine if the scredriver is moving. That will give you an idea if the piston is at TDC. 
Go to the dizzy and check if it points to the little notch. If it doesn't you have to loosen the belt, get it off the camshaft pulley and turn the rotor by hand until it points to the notch. Put the belt back and make sure the rotor doesn't move. 








Now check the camshaft pulley marks. 
If you have a late Digifant engine you have a plastic cover which doesn't allow you to see any marks on one side of the pulley. 
So you have the OT mark which is supposed to allign with the mark on the plastic cover. This mark is in the top center of the plastic cover. There is also a little arrow pointing down. The mark on the pulley should be under this arrow. If its not you have to loose the belt again and turn the camshaft until the marks allign. Make sure you don't move the dizzy rotor! The angle is a bit funny.... I know. Its supposed to be right under the arrow.








If you have an older CIS engine, you probably have the metal belt cover which exposed both sides of the crank pulley. You should be able to see this mark (Its a notch just like the previous photo, don't worry, the photo is borrowed) at that exact point.








Thats another shot of the mark. It is supposed to be level with the belt cover and the valve cover (under the holdown bars). 








Tight the belt tensioner according to specs and make sure the belt is not too tight. You should be able to twist by hand 90 degrees. No more, no less. 
The cam timing is finished. You have adjusted everything to VW spec which is 0 advance for the camshaft. 
For the ignition timing you need a timing light to fine tune it. If you don't have one you can do it by "feeling" the engine. 
So, Suppose that everything is correct, all the marks are alligned and you have tuned the engine a couple of times BY HAND to see if anything interfears. Everything should be ok. Put the dizzy cap on and start the engine. Normally the engine should start immediately. 
Take your timing light (if you have one) and point it into the gearbox hole where the flywheel is. If you have a digifant motor, unplug the blue sensor (CTS sensor) and rev the engine 3 times over 3k to clear the ECU memory. Have someone hold the engine at 2250 rpm and observe the mark in the hole as the engine turns and the light flashes. The strobo light will flash only when No1 spark plug is fired which is when the piston it at the Top Dead Center, meaning the little notch on the flywheel should appear still. 
For CIS timing is at idle speed (850 rpms). Make sure that all the accesories are switched off. 
If it doesn't appear, loose the 13mm nut on the dizzy and slowly turn the whole dizzy while still keeping the revs at 2250. As you turn it you will probably hear the engine sound change. You will also "feel" the engine running rough or smooth. Normally as you get closer to the notch the engine should feel smoother, with no missfires and with higher more clean rpm. Turn the dizzy until you get the little notch in the center of the hole. Thats the 6 Degrees BTDC timing everybody has been talking about and you read it in all the manuals. Your engine is supposed to produce its peak power (if its standard). 
Once you are happy with the timing, tight the 13mm nut on the dizzy again and check one more. if everything is still ok, plug the CTS sensor back and rev it 3 times again over 3K. Let it idle and observe. Chances are your idle might need some adjusting to get it to arround 850/900 rpm. 
Thats it! You did it! You can now brag to your friends that you don't need a specialist to do it! 


_Modified by Black_cabbie at 8:11 AM 5-9-2005_


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

Thanks Black_cabbie and here's







for ya








That's excellent! Did you add it to the FAQ sticky?


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (kamzcab86)*

Not yet..... I want to get some more pics. Too bad I don't have my camera here with me right now. I could go down to the parking lot and get some. 
I got the pics in the tex and in some UK sites. 
And wth is that??????








I only accept Paypal donations


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

Oz money! 
And I just got an email from PayPal saying that I was ousted and not allowed to return so you'll have to accept my Aussie $5...








(p.s. the email was a scam)


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (kamzcab86)*

ousted???????? hahahahahaha thats one of the most funniest things I've ever heard! 
So, regarding the guide. Do you think I need to add something for CIS ignition timing? I have no idea if its the same/similar procedure.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

Yeah, it ended up being a scam 'cuz it said at the bottom: If you don't want your account to be terminated click the link and give us the info we want.








A CIS guide would be awesome! I don't know the procedure myself; I know Bentley has some little blurb about it.


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (kamzcab86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kamzcab86* »_
A CIS guide would be awesome! I don't know the procedure myself; I know Bentley has some little blurb about it.

Gather all the info missing from my guide and together we can make it a Digi/CIS guide!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_ousted???????? hahahahahaha thats one of the most funniest things I've ever heard! 
So, regarding the guide. Do you think I need to add something for CIS ignition timing? I have no idea if its the same/similar procedure. 

Actually, you have the CIS guide pretty close. The timing mark on the cam should actually be level with the top of the valve cover. The pic on the tranny hole showing dimple at TDC and groove at 6BTC are virtually perfect...but I have two rabbits and neither one has that cool pointer thingy in the hole. 1984 and 1981.
On the later CIS (after my 1981!) you can pull the belts and timing covers and then put the crank pulley back on and the notch on the crank pulley will line up perfectly with the notch on the intermediate pulley with the crank pulley notch at 12:00.
Also, on all of these, once you get the timing all set up at TDC here's a trick: Move the crank until your 6BTDC groove is lined up in the hole. Now move the dizzy until the rotor points at the line. That will get you much closer than the TDC before you start the car, and the car will be easier to start and will run better. You still need a light.
The CIS should be timed at idle with all electrical loads off.
My 1981 doesn't have the right kind of crank pulley, so not all CIS are equal.
My 2 cents on the CIS!
Thomas


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## netarc (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

Great guide, George ... thanks, as always! I presume this procedure would be the same for a Digi I (CA-version) engine, right?
A few n00b questions for you, then...

_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_Go to the dizzy and check if it points to the little notch. If it doesn't you have to loosen the belt, get it off the camshaft pulley and turn the rotor by hand until it points to the notch. Put the belt back and make sure the rotor doesn't move.

By "dizzy" you mean distributor, right? That's where I get lost - I didn't think that there was a belt connecting the camshaft pulley to the distributor?? So why does the camshaft/timing belt need to be loosened to adjust the rotor?

_Quote »_If you have a late Digifant engine you have a plastic cover which doesn't allow you to see any marks on one side of the pulley. So you have the OT mark which is supposed to allign with the mark on the plastic cover. This mark is in the top center of the plastic cover. There is also a little arrow pointing down. The mark on the pulley should be under this arrow.

Hmmmm...well, I have a late Digi engine, and _used_ to have the plastic cover and timing mark of which you speak - but after the ABA swap the shop modified a nice metal cover to fit there instead, so I think that plastic side cover is no more ... any alternatives to setting the camshaft properly, then? I thought there was a way to do this with the timing light as well?
And finally, how does one turn the engine by hand ... long wrench on the crankshaft??


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (netarc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *netarc* »_Great guide, George ... thanks, as always! I presume this procedure would be the same for a Digi I (CA-version) engine, right?
A few n00b questions for you, then...

By "dizzy" you mean distributor, right? That's where I get lost - I didn't think that there was a belt connecting the camshaft pulley to the distributor?? So why does the camshaft/timing belt need to be loosened to adjust the rotor?

Hmmmm...well, I have a late Digi engine, and _used_ to have the plastic cover and timing mark of which you speak - but after the ABA swap the shop modified a nice metal cover to fit there instead, so I think that plastic side cover is no more ... any alternatives to setting the camshaft properly, then? I thought there was a way to do this with the timing light as well?
And finally, how does one turn the engine by hand ... long wrench on the crankshaft??


The basic cam timing should be the same. 
As for the ignition, I have no idea but I think its the same. Bentley mentions it but don't remember right now. 
The distributor... The intermediate shaft is what connects the cam belt with the dizzy and the oil pump. 
The ABA..... On one side of the pulley you have the OT and on the other side you have the little notch. make sure the notch is near the valve cover as in the photo. 
Yes, the long socket will work fine on the crankshaft.


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## netarc (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (netarc)*

Oh, forgot my last question - do I understand correctly then that w/this procedure, each spark plug is firing 6deg before TDC?


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## netarc (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_The ABA..... On one side of the pulley you have the OT and on the other side you have the little notch. make sure the notch is near the valve cover as in the photo. 

You mean in this picture? I see what looks like a dimple on the side of one of the teeth, just even with/above the valve cover ... is that what you're referring to?


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (netarc)*

Yes, you are supposed to have a notch there.


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (netarc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *netarc* »_
You mean in this picture? I see what looks like a dimple on the side of one of the teeth, just even with/above the valve cover ... is that what you're referring to?


That picture actually does not show a CIS at TDC. The dimple will be exactly aligned with the top of the valve cover when the cam is at TDC. If you try to put the belt on with the dimple in the position shown it won't match up.
Hey, Black Cabbie...I found my pointers now that I know where to look! Thanks for the awesome pics! That's the first time I've seen a really good pic of the timing hole!
Do you want a pic of the timing notch for the 1981 cabbie? I just went and looked today and it's totally different from the one you've shown.
Thanks!
Thomas


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Thomas_covenant* »_
That picture actually does not show a CIS at TDC. The dimple will be exactly aligned with the top of the valve cover when the cam is at TDC. If you try to put the belt on with the dimple in the position shown it won't match up.
Hey, Black Cabbie...I found my pointers now that I know where to look! Thanks for the awesome pics! That's the first time I've seen a really good pic of the timing hole!
Do you want a pic of the timing notch for the 1981 cabbie? I just went and looked today and it's totally different from the one you've shown.
Thanks!
Thomas


Sure! The more the better! I have been receiving PMs from CIS users asking me about this. Email: maxkoutsis at hotmail.com


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

Cool. I'll try to get one today. The one you showed (groove at 6 degrees before the dimple) is correct for my 1984. But the older ones it's way different. Well, you'll see. I'll get a pic and try to post it today!
FWIW I bought a new lower timing cover on my 1984. It turns out that there's an arrow on it that points right to the crank TDC notch. (There wasn't one on the old lower cover). I'll try to get pics of that as well. Makes it a lot easier to TDC the crank because you can do it while you're turning the crank instead of having to lay across the engine to look in the hole while turning the crank!
Thomas


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*

OK. Here is the first pic. Came out really nice, if I do say so myself (and, of course, I do!). It's the pic of my 1981 'vert's 6BTDC timing mark. It's way different than the on on my '84 (which is the one you've shown).








Hope I did this right!
Thomas


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*

So, How do you adjust the static timing on the Cis? Which mark do you use? 
I have people asking me this through PMs


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*

OK. Here's what the cam dimple should look like at TDC. Notice that my valve cover has the little hold-down bars. The dimple should be sitting right at the level of the actual valve cover, not the top of the hold-down bars, though if you just get it close you can get the belt to go into all the teeth and after you crank the cam through one full turn it'll all straighten itself out. If you look just to the left of the dimple (I used white-out on it) you'll see the top of the inside timing cover. You can also use that, as it's exactly the same height at the top of the valve cover. When I'm doing mine I just put a ruler across the inner timing cover and turn the engine until the dimple lines up.
Thomas


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*

For the sake of those not following this well, T.C. means not the top of the valve cover but the top of the valve cover gasket flange (where the bolt is).


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Moljinar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Moljinar* »_For the sake of those not following this well, T.C. means not the top of the valve cover but the top of the valve cover gasket flange (where the bolt is). 

Update... 
anything else?


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## ciTy_goLf (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

You are a good man blacky...haha thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ciTy_goLf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ciTy_goLf* »_You are a good man blacky...haha thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

You should check your since you have idle problems.


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_
Update... 
anything else? 

Well, I might mention that aligning the flywheel up with the pointer gives you the position of TDC for cylinder 1 AND cylinder 4!!! So merely lining up the pointer does not guarantee that the distributor is ready to fire on cyl. #1. It's as likely to be eady to fire on #4. Merely spin the crank around again and you should be ready to fire #1.


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Moljinar)*

I can't really follow what you are saying about spinning the crank on more time. 
Get the mark on the flywheel and then see if the distributor points at the notch. If not loose the belt and turn the distributor rotor by hand until it points to the notch.


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_I can't really follow what you are saying about spinning the crank on more time. 
Get the mark on the flywheel and then see if the distributor points at the notch. If not loose the belt and turn the distributor rotor by hand until it points to the notch. 

Yikes!!! Don't do that. 
The crank and the distributor and the camshaft do not all turn at the same rate. It takes 4 turns of the crank to make the distributor turnaround once. So if the crank and the distributor don't line up on #1 then you're trying to fire a differnt cylinder. Simply rotate the crank again until the distributor is "close" to #1 (remember if your timing is set correctly it won't be set to be dead on at #1 but advanced a bit from there.)
Changing your belt to make things match is a last resort effort and can also mess up your cam timing. Leave the darn belt alone until its the only way you can get things lined up.


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Moljinar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Moljinar* »_
Yikes!!! Don't do that. 
The crank and the distributor and the camshaft do not all turn at the same rate. It takes 4 turns of the crank to make the distributor turnaround once. So if the crank and the distributor don't line up on #1 then you're trying to fire a differnt cylinder. Simply rotate the crank again until the distributor is "close" to #1 (remember if your timing is set correctly it won't be set to be dead on at #1 but advanced a bit from there.)
Changing your belt to make things match is a last resort effort and can also mess up your cam timing. Leave the darn belt alone until its the only way you can get things lined up.

You don't understand. I am talking about the cam timing. If the marks don't line up, it means the engine will never work correct. 
Make sure the marks allign as I mentioned in the guide and then worry about the ignition timing.


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

If you're setting everything from scratch that's fine.
My comments are directed more to those that decided to check their timing some afternoon and are more likely to make things worse


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Moljinar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Moljinar* »_
Yikes!!! Don't do that. 
The crank and the distributor and the camshaft do not all turn at the same rate. It takes 4 turns of the crank to make the distributor turnaround once. So if the crank and the distributor don't line up on #1 then you're trying to fire a differnt cylinder. Simply rotate the crank again until the distributor is "close" to #1 (remember if your timing is set correctly it won't be set to be dead on at #1 but advanced a bit from there.)


NO!!!! It takes 2 crank rotations for 1 cam rotation. 4 strokes (2 up and 2 down) per cam rotation is 2 crank rotations. Remember, 2 pistons move together, 1-4 and 2-3. When 1 and 4 are at TDC one is firing and one is finishing exhaust stroke.
But you are right about this: NEVER move only one of the sprockets! If you are going to time you MUST time them all!
Thomas


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## netarc (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Thomas_covenant* »_But you are right about this: NEVER move only one of the sprockets! If you are going to time you MUST time them all!
Thomas

Sheesh ... is it just me?!? I'm more lost then ever now


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Thomas_covenant* »_
NO!!!! It takes 2 crank rotations for 1 cam rotation. 4 strokes (2 up and 2 down) per cam rotation is 2 crank rotations. Remember, 2 pistons move together, 1-4 and 2-3. When 1 and 4 are at TDC one is firing and one is finishing exhaust stroke.
But you are right about this: NEVER move only one of the sprockets! If you are going to time you MUST time them all!
Thomas

True, but I was talking about he distributor which turns once for every 4 revs of the flywheel. (4 strokes to fire = 4 stroke engine)
And NETARC... take a deep breath and remember,
Line up the flywheel pointer, check the distributor for firing on #1 (if not then rotate the crank a full rev until it is.), then verify the cam pulley mark is lined up. If all these things are good then you're timed! If not then set them until they are.


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Moljinar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Moljinar* »_
Line up the flywheel pointer, check the distributor for firing on #1 (if not then rotate the crank a full rev until it is.), then verify the cam pulley mark is lined up. If all these things are good then you're timed! If not then set them until they are.

if you rotate the crank one more turn the rotor will point to the same position again. I don't understand how the position of the distributor changes with one crank turn. If the flywheel is at TDC, the rotor should always point at the notch, nomatter what! Whats going to change if you crank it one more time?


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

Good lord,







I think my brain's now fried....


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (kamzcab86)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kamzcab86* »_Good lord,







I think my brain's now fried....









Wait, wait.... we haven't started the ignition timing debate yet!!!!


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## Impact_Wrench (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_if you rotate the crank one more turn the rotor will point to the same position again. I don't understand how the position of the distributor changes with one crank turn. If the flywheel is at TDC, the rotor should always point at the notch, nomatter what! Whats going to change if you crank it one more time? 

Try this some time, take the cap of your dizzy, turn the motor over till its at TDC, and the little rotor is pointing at the TDC mark like it should be, then turn the crank over 1 revolution, Cyl #1 goes from TDC compression (when the spark should be firing) to TDC exhaust stroke, when cyl #4 should be firing, so the rotor will be pointing at the #4 spark plug.
The camshaft and distributor move at the same speed, 'cause the gears are the same size, but the crank gear is like half the size. ( I could go count the teeth on them, i've got a set in my shop, I'm just lazy







)


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## Moljinar (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Impact_Wrench)*

When crank is lined up on pointer cylinders 1 and 4 are at TDC which means cylinders 2&3 are at BDC (bottom dead center) . If plug one is set to fire when the pointer is lined up then #4 is ready on exhaust stroke. Next time #4 is at TDC (in only one crank turn!) its ready for firing. One more crank turn has #1 ready for firing again. In between these are the firing of cylinder #3. Firing sequence is 1-3-4-2 . One full turn between 1 and 4 firing. 
So back to my original statement. If you have the crank pointer lined up and the distributor is aimed at firing #4 then rotate the crank one more time.
To correct my earlier statement the distributor turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank as does the camshaft.


_Modified by Moljinar at 4:14 PM 11-2-2004_


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Moljinar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Moljinar* »_
To correct my earlier statement the distributor turns at 1/2 the speed of the crank as does the camshaft.
_Modified by Moljinar at 4:14 PM 11-2-2004_

Thanks for the correction Moljinar! Now you've got it right.
In the next couple of days I will be posting a static timing guide for older and newer CIS and CIS-E cars. It will include timing when you're replacing the belt and all is correct as well as timing when you've not done maintenance and the belt has jumped or broken.
Thomas


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Thomas_covenant* »_
Thanks for the correction Moljinar! Now you've got it right.
In the next couple of days I will be posting a static timing guide for older and newer CIS and CIS-E cars. It will include timing when you're replacing the belt and all is correct as well as timing when you've not done maintenance and the belt has jumped or broken.
Thomas


Bring on the guides! yeah! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Dino are you getting these? 


_Modified by Black_cabbie at 11:47 PM 11-2-2004_


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## fluffyvw (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

Wooow-my head is becoming so swollen by this thread that I won't be able to drive with the top up!!


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## ensone (May 18, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

holy sh*t im so lost..


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ensone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ensone* »_holy sh*t im so lost..

Don't be. Just take the guide from the start and follow the steps one by one. 
Just keep in mind that nomatter what happens the engine cannot be damaged. Even if the timing is 100% wrong it just won't fire. 



_Modified by Black_cabbie at 11:15 PM 12-29-2004_


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_
You might also have this type of flywheel.... it has only the 6 degrees BTDC mark.










Black Cabbie,
This pic (above) that I took shows the 6BTDC on the older Rabbit flywheel. However, you said "it has only the 6 degrees BTDC mark." That is incorrect. It has the dimple at TDC, it just doesn't use the groove for the 6BTDC.
Thomas


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## ensone (May 18, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*

well... i dont know what to do at all
i dont understand 
1. how you see the flywheel
2. how the pistons should be set up...mine are all dead in the middle
should 2 be up and 2 down? or all even? how do i turn the engine by hand
3. how do you take the old belt off
4. which one is the tensioner
5. this sucks.. i lost the book on the day i need it most.. i think my dad took it.. he wants the car gone
6. i want to finish tonight


_Modified by ensone at 1:12 AM 12-30-2004_


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## dino01 (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ensone)*

you NEED the book. theres a nut on te passenger side crankshaft that you can turn with a wrench, that turns the pistons. the passenger side piston must be perfectly level with the top of the block.
for a fast and comprehensive response post in the golf1 forum. same engine, MANY more people with the info you need. no disrespect to the cabby guys but there's less traffic in here and the rear gear heads rarely visit.


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ensone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ensone* »_well... i dont know what to do at all
i dont understand 
1. how you see the flywheel
*On the gearbox near the engine you have a green cover that you need to unscrew. If your engine is a late digi you should have 2 marks on the flywheel.*
2. how the pistons should be set up...mine are all dead in the middle
should 2 be up and 2 down? or all even? how do i turn the engine by hand
*The No1 piston is supposed to be all the way up. Since you won't have any spark plugs on the head you can turn the engine using the camshaft pulley as well. Just go easy on it because you don't want to stress the belt for no reason*
3. how do you take the old belt off 
*You need to remove the lower plastic cam cover and the crankshaft pulley.*
4. which one is the tensioner
*The tensioner is under the camshaft pulley.*
5. this sucks.. i lost the book on the day i need it most.. i think my dad took it.. he wants the car gone
*Big mistake. Check here... On line manual*
6. i want to finish tonight
*Don't rush it and always double check before starting the engine.*


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## ensone (May 18, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

i found my book! my sister took it to school
she caught the peanut butter in the hair trick for that one
its 2 bad i found it after screwing in the headbolts like a maniac... no torque specs just... like a maniac
i put together the rest of the engine and tomorrow im gonna take another shot at this timing stuff








putting in a new belt is a pain in the ass mannnnnnn


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ensone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ensone* »_i found my book! my sister took it to school
she caught the peanut butter in the hair trick for that one
its 2 bad i found it after screwing in the headbolts like a maniac... no torque specs just... like a maniac
i put together the rest of the engine and tomorrow im gonna take another shot at this timing stuff








putting in a new belt is a pain in the ass mannnnnnn

The problem is getting the crank shaft pulley out. Most of the times the allen bolts get rounded. I changed mine with some stainless steel 13mm bolts.


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## ensone (May 18, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

damn... mine is realy round


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ensone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ensone* »_damn... mine is realy round

Time to drill them out. Mine rounded off in the process too. And I used a brand new allen socket key.


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## sehaare (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_
Time to drill them out. Mine rounded off in the process too. And I used a brand new allen socket key. 

If I remember right I used a dremel to grind the bolt heads off then slipped the pulley off (I forget which pulley that I had to do this for). With no tension on the bolts they screwed out easily when I grabbed what was left with vice-grips. I have never had any luck trying to drill out a bolt.
HTH
Steve


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## Black_cabbie (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (sehaare)*

I always use a drill which has the same diameter as the bolt I am trying to get out. I start on the head and after a couple of minutes the head just falls over. Very easy and very clean way.


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## ensone (May 18, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

that would suck if you stripped a head bolt


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## Thomas_covenant (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black_cabbie* »_
The problem is getting the crank shaft pulley out. Most of the times the allen bolts get rounded. I changed mine with some stainless steel 13mm bolts. 

I always buy new allens when I do the belt. However, the last time I went to buy them the shop didn't have any. They sold me 13MM normal bolts and they work wonderfully!
If the allens are too rounded it's easy to fix. Get a dremel and use the cutting wheel. Cut a slot across the top of the bolt head. Then use a flat-blade screwdriver to back them out.


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## ensone (May 18, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Thomas_covenant)*

arrrrright
everything is on.. except the belt
now
let me get the prioritys straight
1. camshaft sprocket
2. flywheel (do i have to turn both wheels or should i turn one and keep the other from moving )
3. dizzy
and im done.
right?
btw i decided to leave the old belt in..


_Modified by ensone at 10:20 PM 12-30-2004_


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## ensone (May 18, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ensone)*

THE DIZZY








what do i do with this?
wheres the belt? and why not just turn it


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## ensone (May 18, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ensone)*

holy **** i cant tighten the tensioner anymore
my hands are hurting
am i doing something wrong
is there something else other than tightening the bolt?


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## Cyclopath (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (ensone)*

And if you have an automatic tranny, this is what the mark looks like. The little "O" should be half showing on the bottom of the "dungeon door" window.


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## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Cyclopath)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanx man.


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## ERA_Evil (May 11, 2008)

*Re: GUIDE: How to adjust your timing (Black_cabbie)*

i got a serious problem, someone moved the pulley, so the camshaft from the mark doesn't line up where its supposed to. my problem, is that i can't align the camshaft, i got the dizzy and crank right, but i need the cam, i tried setting it by eye, and it sort of worked, i just want to get it right, so if anyone could get me some piks of the valves where there supposed to be when crank is at TDC and dizzy to fire at 1

PS. i bought the car this way


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

*FV-QR*

The dot on the BACK of the cam gear lines up with the TOP of the VALVE COVER, not the head.

Lobes on #1 will all be approximately horizontal, lobes on #4 will be in overlap (end of exhaust, beginning of intake), exactly opposite #1.


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## spyridon (Nov 1, 2013)

*QUICK Q - Help Please messed up timing, CAMSHAFT Q*

1990 Cabrio Digi 

I wanted to just adjust timing to be safe (car was running) I wanted to just realign Cam and Crank and dizzy from scratch, and I followed all steps with all methods from the tutorial. (3 methods based on the thread pdf from it also). 

(i should've just adjusted the dizzy i know) 

No matter how good I align everything with the marks, (and even the 10v spike check on green/white wire). 

I can't get the car to start at all. I have spark, I have fuel. I've redone the alignment marks probably 20 times now for 2 days. 

Q: IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE CAM PULLEY IS JUST WRONG ? so the mark on the wheel, when matching the top mark on the plastic cover, is wrong because the pulley was put on wrong?? 

If that is eve possible, IS THERE SOME OTHER WAY to know where the cam should be if the mark is wrong? ???

Worse case, I'm thinking pulling valve cover, but I wouldn't know which valve side should be up/down at what point (I've seen/messed with valves before but not on vw) - don''t want to do this. 

Please help. I've done this: 

Flywheel TDC mark showing 
dizzy pointng to mark
11v spike on green wire when there 
cRAnk pully mark/notch at the hole and arrow on top of bell housing
WHILE the CAMshaft pulley mark at top mark arrow on top of plastic cover 

I CAN"T GET ANY firing- even moving dizzy around slowly while trying to start car 

No igniting, , but YEs, spark and fuel line working


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

spyridon said:


> 1990 Cabrio Digi
> 
> I wanted to just adjust timing to be safe (car was running) I wanted to just realign Cam and Crank and dizzy from scratch, and I followed all steps with all methods from the tutorial. (3 methods based on the thread pdf from it also).
> 
> ...














































.


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## mattchirhart (Aug 21, 2012)

Tolusina, you seem to be reliable on vortex, ive used some of your tips and advice in the past. I just swapped my bad dizzy out of my 88 for a mk2 2.0 dizzy. it is 100% the same except or where the gasket goes. Everything fit perfect, but now with everything put back together, the starter is good, and it just wont turn over. it cranks and cranks, but nothing. I cant tell if its the dizzy or if its just my timing. either way, im at a loss.


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

I've no idea what a MK2 2.0 dizzy is, but never mind that for now.
First question, why did you remove/replace the old distributor?
2nd, does the car have spark?


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## sinosoidal (Oct 25, 2016)

Hi,

Finally found a decent guide. This is a really old thread but I will try to get some questions answered. 

One year ago I went to a shop to make basic operation but there were some complications and at the end, the distribution belt had to be removed. Since that time, the car performance was not the same anymore. I have a Golf Mk3 1.6 GT (AEK engine code).

Problems:

- When the engine is really cold, the engine vibrates a LO
- When the engine starts to warm, it has the power it used to have
- When it gets fully warm, it doesn't have power and I need to lower gear when I need to go up
- I can only feel a nice acceleration at 4k RPM instead of 3K RPM 
- I have an error in the ECU saying that the Camshaft Hall Sensor is short to plus.

Things I have tried already in almost one year window frame:

- I have adjusted the timing myself but by that time I set it to 6º BTDC instead of TDC (I can only realize this after reading this guide). After this adjust, it has the same behaviour and the error is still there.
- Then I have replaced the distributor by one of these to ensure the error wasn't being caused by a damaged hall sensor -> Golf 3 Powerspark Distributor
- After distributor replacement, the error is still there. 
- Then I thought the problem was a short in the wire. After wire inspection I discovered no short. I found the wire next to the ECU plug, cut it and tested it with a multimeter. No short to plus or ground. However, measuring between ground and the middle pin of the distributor plug, it gives me 5 volts. Now I'm not sure if this is a ECU problem or if it is being caused by bad timing problems. Please advise on this.
- I have replaced the the spark plugs cables as well.

Questions:

- How do you rotate engine by hand? Where do you apply the force on? When I manually adjusted the timing, I was trying to rotate the engine by rotating the wheel, curiously I couldn't do it. Is there any trick for this?

- The new distributor doesn't have the notch. What should I do in this case? Should I use the old distributor as reference?

- Is the distributor gear position important or just the having the distributor rotor on the top of the notch is necessary?

Thanks,

Regards,

Nuno



Black_cabbie said:


> Many people wonder how to adjust both their camshaft and ignition timing.
> Its very easy. Just say..... Thanks Black_cabbie and here is 5 bux for you!
> So,
> Suppose everything is messed up or you are rebuilting your engine so I will start from scratch.
> ...


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## h0yitsdom (Sep 25, 2009)

sinosoidal said:


> - How do you rotate engine by hand? Where do you apply the force on? When I manually adjusted the timing, I was trying to rotate the engine by rotating the wheel, curiously I couldn't do it. Is there any trick for this?
> 
> - The new distributor doesn't have the notch. What should I do in this case? Should I use the old distributor as reference?
> 
> ...


Socket onto the crankshaft bolt down at the bottom of the timing belt behind passenger wheel/brake rotor, slightly easier if you undo spark plugs...but I'm lazy

Is the new distributor OEM? I can't imagine someone would make one without a notch under the cap


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

h0yitsdom said:


> Socket onto the crankshaft bolt down at the bottom of the timing belt behind passenger wheel/brake rotor, slightly easier if you undo spark plugs...but I'm lazy
> 
> Is the new distributor OEM? I can't imagine someone would make one without a notch under the cap


I have heard of that on "Chinese" made ones. Makes its a wee harder to find number one...


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