# thinking of putting syncro mesh in my 02 gti 1.8t



## Patre610 (Sep 20, 2010)

Im thinking of puttin g syncro mesh in my 02 gti 1.8t for smoother shifting and noises has anybody used it in a gti 1.8t ? I dont know much about it so any input would be good thanks


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

GM Syncromesh? It's thin and was intended to replace 10w-30 engine oil in trans that take it. If you are not modded and in a cold climate, it would be ok. Generally, considering you have a somewhat powerful engine, I wouldn't go too much thinner than the oem 75w-90. Redline MT90 is an obvious choice in that grade, but it's been common practice in VAGs to mix MT90 with the thinner Redline MTL 50/50% for use in cooler climates. So, that being said, something between the mix and just MTL which is a 75w-80 or 85. Basically, to use the right units, 75w-90 is about 14-15cSt, a 75w-80 (Asian gearboxes) is about 12cSt and what I last used, Fuch Silkolene Pro SRG 75 Full Ester Race oil is even thinner than that at 10cSt. ATF is another fluid used in manual trans, about 9cSt. If I had to guess, Syncromesh is a 75w-85 about 12cSt and is GL-4 rated. It should be fine until you exceed 225hp or so.

If you have a data sheet, I'll check it out for you.

Pennzoil Syncromesh might be a better product, the GM is not synth. Best product in the visc would be the Redline MTL.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Ok, I looked it up. PZ Syncromesh is 9cSt (+100c) and that's damn thin, the same as ATF. 

I would recommend against it, as too thin and it's friction-modified like a GL-5 gear oil, meaning not enough grab for the syncros. Redline or AMSoil is a good way to go. The visc you choose depends on your climate and horsepower. Seeing as how oem Castrol "Syntrax" or whatever is at least 14cSt, I gotta say Syncromesh is too thin.



PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
PENNZOIL® SYNCHROMESH FLUID is a synchromesh transmission fluid designed for certain manual transaxles and
manual transmissions used by General Motors or Chrysler. PENNZOIL® SYNCHROMESH FLUID is formulated with
high quality paraffinic base stocks, a fluidity modifier, multifunctional performance additives, corrosion inhibitors, a foam
suppressor and a shear stable viscosity index improver additive. It provides excellent oxidation stability, low temperature
performance, excellent synchronizer performance and compatibility with yellow metals, such as bronze, brass and copper
components found in manual transaxles and transmissions. This product will satisfactorily lubricate General Motors or
Chrysler manual transaxles and transmissions from -40°C to +150°C.
APPLICATION
PENNZOIL® SYNCHROMESH FLUID is specifically formulated for synchromesh transmissions used by General Motors
requiring General Motors Part No. 12345349 (Specification No. 9985648) Synchromesh Transmission Fluid or Chrysler
transmissions requiring Part No. 4874464 (Specification MS-9224). It is also recommended for use in General Motor
transmissions requiring General Motors Part No. 12345577. It is listed in the Pennzoil Lubrication Recommendation And
Capacities Guide as “GLS.” PENNZOIL® SYNCHROMESH FLUID is NOT intended for all GLS applications. You
must verify the manufacturer’s part number, indicated by a superscript number and found at the end of the vehicle
application listing.
BENEFITS
• Exhibits excellent low temperature performance
• Meets GM Specification 9985648
• Suitable for use in GM manual transaxles and transmissions requiring GM Part No. 12345349 or 12345577
• Meets Chrysler specification MS-9224
• Suitable for use in Chrylser transaxles and transmissions requiring Part No. 4874464
• Excellent synchronizer performance
• Excellent yellow metal compatibility
TYPICAL PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
TEST METHOD TYPICAL RESULTS
API Gravity ASTM D-1298 27.3
Flash Point, COC, °F ASTM D-92 385
Pour Point, °F ASTM D-97 -50
Viscosity ASTM D-445
@ 40°C, cSt 41.6
@ 100°C, cSt 9.08
@ 100°F, SUS 209.4
@ 210°F, SUS 56.7
Viscosity Index ASTM D-2270 208


http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/Synchromesh Manual Trans Fluid.pdf

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1578636


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

go to www.germanautoparts.com get OEM fluid or redline and call it a day


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## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

ive tried a few variations. PZ synchromesh is too thin, mind you it does make your gearbox shift like a dream, but any thin oil will do that. I used a gl-4 rated 80w90 gear oil, gear shifts were still a bit notchy. I got some molybdenum disulphide additive (can be ordered from german auto parts) and it has seemed to smooth out the shifts quite well.

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Chemicals/Transmission and gear oils/Lubro-Moly

dont use lubro-moly gear oil in a gearbox rated for gl-4 oil, as its a gl-5 oil and will harm your synchronisers. The lubro-moly additive is what you want. I recommend adding this stuff to fresh gear oil, seems like a waste adding it to old dirty oil.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

AMSoil published a good white paper gear oil study recently.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf

As usual, Royal Purple and LUCAS fall on their face.


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## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

lucas is a SCAM..directed towards old men on Saturday morning automotive TV. Royal purple is marketed as liquid gold...but its pretty generic stuff with a hefty price tag.


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## Patre610 (Sep 20, 2010)

thanks everybody for the input the place my cars at uses penns syncro in all his trans ill try if i dont like ill drain it and start over:screwy:


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

I have to correct myself. The new oem MTF is now pretty thin...

VW part number G052512A2.

Everything else is zero except the following metals:

Sn 4
Si 2
Na 1
K 40
Ca 14
P 470
Zn 8
Mo 238
B 124

VIS @ 100C 7.2
TAN 1.33

So Syncromesh is ideal for the trans that take the new stuff. I don't want to get into specifics of which model takes which oil, but often you can go thinner instead of a thicker oem fluid. I did this with the Silkolene Pro SRG 75 Full Ester Race oil....google it, killer stuff.

Here is a UOA of used MTF from an 08 with 46k...very thin.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

If you like LUCAS, you'll love this VOA of LUCAS Oil Stabilizer....

Unless listed all are 'Zero'

Lucas Virgin
TBN - 0.1
Visc - 615.3
FP - 435
Calcium - 3
Magnesium - 1
Phosphorus - 4
Zinc - 2


Nothing in it! Just greasy slop in a quart bottle for $8.


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## AudiSportA4 (Mar 3, 2002)

Here's a paper on MTLs...

Most GL5 differential and GL4 Manual Transmission oils contain sulfur-phosphorous EP packages. GL4 does NOT refer to any specific viscosity, but it refers to a level of AW/EP protection for the gearing and bearings in a transmission. GL4-rated oils contain about 40% to 60% of the EP additives that GL5 oils contain.

Both differential and manual transmission fluids use chemical compounds that subdue or inhibit the corrosive effects of sulfur and phosphorous such as calcium, magnesium, boron, potassium or other basic compounds. Emulsifiers, corrosion and rust inhibitors also are included to do their respective jobs.

GL5 differential lubes use friction modifiers to reduce mechanical and fluid friction and add some anti-shudder friction modifier for limited slip, both very different chemical compounds.

Manual Transmission fluids use a different friction modifier for synchro engagement, a modifier that does NOT contain the same Friction Modifier chemicals as differential lubes.

Most manual transmission "specific" fluids (GL4) contain about 40% to 60% of the EP additive of differential lubes (GL5) with inactive or buffered sulphurs. GL4 has come to infer a gear lube with the above percentages of EP additive. The exception of course is ATF fluid used in some of the newer transmissions.

Therefore, both lubes contain the same EP additives, just in different strengths or additive ratios.

Ever since the synchromesh-type fluids appeared on the scene (such as the GM Synchromesh fluid), drivers have had better shifting due to better synchro engagement, attributed to the specialized friction modifier used in these lubes. This specialized friction modifier is better for metallic and composite synchros in terms of shifting and life.

Manual Transmission fluids use a different friction modifier specifically designed for synchro engagement, a modifier that does NOT contain the same chemical compounds as do differential lubes.

A synchromesh fluid usually refers to a specialized fluid that contains special friction modification additives for transmissions that use mechanical synchronizer assemblies; those synchronizer assemblies may be made of carbon fiber composites, sintered metal.

You also have to consider the viscosity of the fluid that the transmission was designed for. The spectrum now ranges from ATF to 75W90 viscosities and therefore a synchromesh GL4 Manual Transmission Lubricant (MTL) can be any viscosity from 7.0 cSt (ATF equivalent viscosity) to a 75W90 type viscosity of approx. 14.5 cSt, and contains special friction modification additives for synchronizer assembly engagement.
brass/bronze, or steel-steel materials.

Current MTL GL4 viscosites are:

1. ATF Series - Type; 6.5 to 8.5 cSt (Equivalent ATF viscosity; Note: ATF additive package is weak compared to most GL 4's)
2. Synchromesh Series -Type; 9.3 - 9.5 cSt (such as Amsoils MTF, Texaco's MTL, Pennzoil's Synchromesh, GM and Chrysler's Synchromesh)
3. 75W85 Series-Type; 9.8 to 11.5 cSt ( Redline's MTL, RP's Synchromax LT, Nissan's MTL, Honda MTL, Castrol Syntorq LT)
4. 75W90 Series-Type; 12.8 to 14.5 cSt (Amsoil's MTG, Redline's MT-90).

MTL specific lubes we're developed for manual tranny's and transaxles, and not for differentials or industrial gear boxes. A differential lube may not kill your tranny, but it is not the optimum lube for it. A diffy 75W90 (GL5) usually has a higher viscosity than does an mtl in the same advertized weight.


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