# Replacing spark plugs



## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

If replacing the stock plugs (with Bosch F5DP0R spark plugs),
what should the gap be?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

rule for the F5DP0Rs is that you don't mess with the gap
Dave


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (crew217)*

So it's good out of the box?
Great!! But don't they still need to be checked?
What are the specs just in case?


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## Misano (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (Nurendra)*

They are a side discharge plug and can not be gapped


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (Nurendra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nurendra* »_So it's good out of the box?
Great!! But don't they still need to be checked?
What are the specs just in case?

No idea, go search on audiworld . . . . everyone is quite specific on not touching the gap at all. I guess you could always just check to make sure all gaps are uniform. I've personally have never had a plug that was misgapped from the factory.
Dave


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (Misano)*

Thanx a lot!!


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (Nurendra)*

The fitment for most side discharge plugs has the correct gap out of the box. There are ways of gapping them but they require special tools usually.
Haven't used these plugs specifically but my experience with other bosch platinum plugs and also their side gapped plugs is http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
like to stick with inexpensive copper plugs on turbo motors. You may change them more often but the fact that they wear means they are a weak point, if something goes wrong the plug will be the weakest link and can save you from melting up a piston.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (PD Performance)*

stock gap on this engine's plug is .032


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_stock gap on this engine's plug is .032


same as the stock 1.8t.. Probably gonna have to close it up a little once people start making power and cylinder pressure gets high.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_same as the stock 1.8t.. Probably gonna have to close it up a little once people start making power and cylinder pressure gets high.

bkr7e for the win! But only if you need the one cooler. Hint: Pull a plug and examine it. After chipping and a TBE and hard driving you might see evidence that you might need it.
Chris, I like copper plugs, too. Some people hate them, but an autolite 3922 is a step colder (3923 is stock).


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (syntrix)*

Folks, I bought them based on a post either here or in the Jetta V forum. PTurner~ or something like that raised the question.
These 'texers somewhere in CA, tested a bunch and had the best results from these.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (Nurendra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nurendra* »_Folks, I bought them based on a post either here or in the Jetta V forum. PTurner~ or something like that raised the question.
These 'texers somewhere in CA, tested a bunch and had the best results from these.

Can you find the link?
I'm *really* curious about this mentioned thread!


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (syntrix)*

I *aargh* tried searching for it. Even went thru all 30 pages of the Jetta V forum.
All I remember was that pturner___ asked, bhvrdr responded.
I IM'ed bhvrdr to explain some things to me, he did and I made the purchase based on his explanation.
I IM'ed him to find out about the gapping, when he responds I'll point him to this post


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (Nurendra)*

FOUND IT!!!
Please read: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2390253


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (Nurendra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nurendra* »_FOUND IT!!!
Please read: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2390253

AFIK, the 1.8T plug and the 2.0Tfsi plug are the same.
Well, only way is to try a few and test 'em out. Most chipped cars don't need cooler plugs, but there's only one way to tell:
Pull a plug and look at it. Here's a refresher:
http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark.asp
Gap can make a HUGE difference on a plug, too!!!!


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (syntrix)*

Cross reference for the F5DP0R is the autolite 3922.. which also cross references the BKR7ES.
The BKR7ES is one of the best plugs in the 1.8t.. The autotlite being a close second.. but next to impossible to find without special ordering for a few bucks more then the BKR.. I am hard pressed to believe that it would be a problem.
Most that have had problems with the BKR7ES did not gap them correct.. often times just putting them in straight out the box with their .045 or so gap... That would barely workin an NA motor making 10hp..


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (Nurendra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nurendra* »_Folks, I bought them based on a post either here or in the Jetta V forum. PTurner~ or something like that raised the question.
These 'texers somewhere in CA, tested a bunch and had the best results from these.

yep...gonna get some soon


_Modified by pturner67 at 8:36 PM 2-16-2006_


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## jprempe (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: (PD Performance)*

Autolite 3923 and 3922 plugs are easy to find around here. I run the 3923's on my truck, and have run 3922's when I was running a NX kit on it at the track. Almost every parts store around here has them in stock...
I think the race version is the expensive one you folks are thinking about (@$4.99 each). Even then, that's far better than the plugs my '03 Maxima used (usually $11 plus each)...


_Modified by jprempe at 6:57 PM 2-17-2006_


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jprempe)*

I've done pretty extensive data logging on the Bkr6e the bkr7e and now the F5dpor. The NGK plugs did almost nothing when looking at logs. BTW, you want the BKR7E or 6E, not the ES-11 plug that is gapped to .044. The "E" plugs come out of the box correctly at .032. When I installed the Bosch F5dpor the timing retard dropped a couple degrees and smooted out fantastically. Now two other drivers did the same back to back comparison with the NGK and the Bosch and their results were actually more remarkable. Timing retard dropped 4-7 degrees across the board. Feel free to drop me a line for the logs on the three seperate cars. I believe greedspeed may have also done some testing so may want to contact them to see if their results were similar. cheers! Mike


_Modified by bhvrdr at 4:21 PM 2-17-2006_


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (jprempe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jprempe* »_Autolite 3923 and 3922 plugs are easy to find around here. I run the 3923's on my truck, and have run 3922's when I was running a NX kit on it at the track. Almost every parts store around here has them in stock...
I think the race version is the expensive one you folks are thinking about (@$4.99 each). Even then, that's far better than the plugs my '03 Maxima used (usually $11 plus each)...


nope 22s are almost impossible to find around here.. No store carries them in a 60 mile radius of where I am and if you want them you ahve to special order.. Special ordering them you pay full retail which is about 5 bucks a plug.


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_I've done pretty extensive data logging on the Bkr6e the bkr7e and now the F5dpor. The NGK plugs did almost nothing when looking at logs. BTW, you want the BKR7E or 6E, not the ES-11 plug that is gapped to .044. The "E" plugs come out of the box correctly at .032. When I installed the Bosch F5dpor the timing retard dropped a couple degrees and smooted out fantastically. Now two other drivers did the same back to back comparison with the NGK and the Bosch and their results were actually more remarkable. Timing retard dropped 4-7 degrees across the board. Feel free to drop me a line for the logs on the three seperate cars. I believe greedspeed may have also done some testing so may want to contact them to see if their results were similar. cheers! Mike



On road spark plug testing needs to be taken with a grain of salt.. way too small of a variable usually to just assume the change was from the plug.
As for the BKR7es11 plugs, they gap down to the .028 or so I run them in all my 1.8ts no problem and my local supplier keeps them in stock for under a buck a piece.. I usually buy 50+ at a time.. He doesn't have the non S ones in stock.
I'll try and get a hold of the f5dpor this week and test them out. My experience with platinum and multi prong plugs.. especially from bosch has always been much rougher running and even on NA motors a very noticeable loss in power.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_nope 22s are almost impossible to find around here.. No store carries them in a 60 mile radius of where I am and if you want them you ahve to special order.. Special ordering them you pay full retail which is about 5 bucks a plug.

Weird, autozone and kragen carry them. Not every store has 'em, so maybe they are just a popular application for another car?
Oh, the -11E's nobody really uses 'em, and it's not the part number that was posted earlier


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_
Weird, autozone and kragen carry them. Not every store has 'em, so maybe they are just a popular application for another car?


We don't have any Kragens and the few autozones in this area don't carry any autolite products at all. There were a few pepboys that at first had the 22s but I think once all the VW people in the area whiped out the stock they never carried them again.

_Quote »_
Oh, the -11E's nobody really uses 'em, and it's not the part number that was posted earlier









Thats what I use in all the cars I put together with no problems at all. Its basically just a standard looking plug.. same as the autolites.. no grooved electrode. Just a basic plug.. Actually if gapped correctly would be identical to the plug in the 2.0T.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*

Just get the proper bkr6e or 7e. It is not recommended by the plug manufacturers to change the orientation of the ground electrode when not needed. The 6e and 7e require no gapping. 
Road testing under controlled conditions isnt too bad as long as you can see a trend. Doing a few baseline runs. Taking the average and finding little variance. Then swapping the plugs and doing the modified runs and taking the average there is much improvement seen. 
I have always used the NGK based on recommendations that pretty much went, "Use the copper. They rock. You dont want platinum crap." So I bought it without doing the research. It wasnt until my buddy who was running the identical MTM stage 3 setup and I were logging our cars and I was pulling consistently 3 degrees more timing. We scratched our heads a bit as the setups were very similar. The only difference was the f5dpor. So what the heck. I put them in and voila. 3 degrees less timing retard. I wanted to see if there was more to this, so a couple more folks decided to do back to backs on the NGK copper v. f5dpor or dp1 (similar platinum plug....
http://www.audigeeks.com/forum...710.0
There are several cars now that have made the switch from NGK coppers to the bosch specialty platin plug and the results are consistent. Not one saw the timing retard better for the NGK so luckily it seems that it's not extraneous variables here and that the difference is substantiated. 
Here's a different car..
BKR7E...









F5DP0R...








cheers! Mike


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

More importantly, what did your plugs look like with the "3 degrees"? Did you take pictures? Part of plug "tuning" is examining the plugs after they have been run in the car for a while.
There's something missing from the equation. You are looking at timing based on different plugs, and timing between two separate engines.
I will agree with the electrode to ground angle though! Too much angle on the -11's, but THAT part number was NOT posted earlier!


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_Just get the proper bkr6e or 7e. It is not recommended by the plug manufacturers to change the orientation of the ground electrode when not needed. The 6e and 7e require no gapping. 


Ok for starters are your logs on a 1.8t or on a 2.0T that you are showing here?
Secondly you seriously didn't just tell me not to change the ground orientation by using the 7e instead of the e-s11 when its actually the same vs changing to the f5dpor which has a COMPLETELY different ground orientation???


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_Ok for starters are your logs on a 1.8t or on a 2.0T that you are showing here?

Wait, I just got that... MTM STG 3, WaffleTacoFoxtrot, good catch Chris!
That IS a 1.8T. There is a forum for that. It's not this one.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (syntrix)*

Not on seperate engines at all. I know that would be silly. What I did was look at me and by bros car and then do my own back to back after seeing the difference between me and my buddies car. The difference that I saw were on my own going from NGK to Bosch platin.
The other ones are also from each person who used to be running the NGK and then logged the new ones on their car.
The original NGK plug posted was the Bkr7es which only comes as the -11 AFAIK.
Yeah, I know it seems silly but I do photo each of the plugs when I take them out. To be honest NONE have looked bad. The bkr6e and 7e looked almost identical despite being one heat range different. Just a tinge of grey on the electrode from fuel burn, but no signs of either melting or carbon fouling. Of course this has a lot to do with the engine tune as well. It was a very solid running program. 
The two different heat range NGK plugs interstinly logged out very similar as well. As did the Denso triple side firing coppers I logged. The platins obviously look great being a finer wire surface gap. They logged better than any of the three. If I had looked at any of them alone, I would have said they look fantastic visually, but the f5dpor logged a lot better.
cheers! Mike


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

But you aren't even talking about a 2.0T FSI.
You are talking about this, or for the other audi 1.8T:
http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/a4stage3_1_1.htm
Stage 3 consists of MTM software, KKK K04 turbo, Bosch platin plug set, high volume fuel injectors, 70mm stainless steel exhaust system with downpipe and a high flow cat.
You are using 1.8T knowledge and experience. THat's fine and appreciated, but I think some 2.0T work needs to be done. Sorry bro, it's a whole different engine!
However, we can conclude, that the bench tuners, can look at timing retard to see if there's any difference. However, if it's 100% related to just spark plugs, I'd say something something grain something something salt. I'd still pull a plug and examine it after a few hundred miles.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_Ok for starters are your logs on a 1.8t or on a 2.0T that you are showing here?
Secondly you seriously didn't just tell me not to change the ground orientation by using the 7e instead of the e-s11 when its actually the same vs changing to the f5dpor which has a COMPLETELY different ground orientation???

Come on Cris. You know you dont change the gap on the finer wire surface gap plugs. Keep it the same. Do not change those gaps on the f5dp0r.
The logs I have done have been BOTH on a multitude of the 1.8t and of course I did the same on my 2.0T FSI. Also another member here did the same testing. Maybe he'll be nice enough to post. Here is the stocker for my 2.0T FSI and the F5dp0r...








Again, consitent results for me with 3 degrees less retard but just as important, there were much lower spikes in the retard. 
cheers! Mike


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
Come on Cris. You know you dont change the gap on the finer wire surface gap plugs. Keep it the same. Do not change those gaps on the f5dp0r.
The logs I have done have been BOTH on a multitude of the 1.8t and of course I did the same on my 2.0T FSI. Also another member here did the same testing. Maybe he'll be nice enough to post. Here is the stocker for my 2.0T FSI and the F5dp0r...

Again, consitent results for me with 3 degrees less retard but just as important, there were much lower spikes in the retard. 
cheers! Mike

You said orientation.. to me that is not gapping.. gapping is gapping.. orientation is top to side ground location.
That being said. I've got no 1.8Ts that make any power that can run a .032 gap.. Anythign with some balls will blow the spark out with that kind of gap. Everything I run is tightened down to a .028 or so gap so no matter what I use from NGK whether its the e, es, or es-11 its gonna have to be gapped.


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_.
I will agree with the electrode to ground angle though! Too much angle on the -11's, but THAT part number was NOT posted earlier!

No it wasn't the number posted earlier but it does not mean it doesn't work and doesn't work well.. I"ve used 100+ of them on many many cars and none have a problem.. They tend to work just as well as the autolites. only cheaper around here and last a hair longer.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_You said orientation.. to me that is not gapping.. gapping is gapping.. orientation is top to side ground location.
That being said. I've got no 1.8Ts that make any power that can run a .032 gap.. Anythign with some balls will blow the spark out with that kind of gap. Everything I run is tightened down to a .028 or so gap so no matter what I use from NGK whether its the e, es, or es-11 its gonna have to be gapped.

When you change the gap you are changing the orientation of the ground electode. You are oriented it down thus also changing the angle of he ground electode (side to side, up and down, left to right, north to south...this is all orientation as the word is defined). Obviously changing a .044 to .028 changes the angle much more than .032 to .028. I haven't seen problems going .032 on aggressive tunes for the 1.8t for cars running in the 12s, but if you find you have to go down to .028, id do it starting at .032. Regardess, you dont need to gap the f5dp0r as stated by two other members earlier in the thread. Give um a try and let us know what you think. You might be impressed.
cheers! Mike


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

I think that's the point. Your data is 1.8T. Most all of us have 1.8T hands on experience. We need new 2.0T info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (syntrix)*

Oh, and just trying F5DP0R plugs? Ummm, $80 in spark plugs? OUCH!!!
Oh wait, retail would be over $120. OUCH x2
http://www.partsamerica.com/Pr...5DP0R


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
When you change the gap you are changing the orientation of the ground electode. You are oriented it down thus also changing the angle of he ground electode (side to side, up and down, left to right, north to south...this is all orientation as the word is defined). Obviously changing a .044 to .028 changes the angle much more than .032 to .028. I haven't seen problems going .032 on aggressive tunes for the 1.8t for cars running in the 12s, but if you find you have to go down to .028, id do it starting at .032. Regardess, you dont need to gap the f5dp0r as stated by two other members earlier in the thread. Give um a try and let us know what you think. You might be impressed.
cheers! Mike

It was just a misunderstanding of what you meant by orientation..i still would not use that to define gapping the plugs.
I'll try some f5dpor once I locate a set.. But experience with similar plugs on several engines has shown negative results.
Again anything bosch, platinum or multiple ground I have tested has been bad.. put those three in one and you've generally got crap.
I used to deal with a supplier that had a few grand in bosch platinum inventory. Bosch would not take them back and they refused to sell them since everyone who bought them returned them, it was wasting the shops time and money so they just sat on them.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_I think that's the point. Your data is 1.8T. Most all of us have 1.8T hands on experience. We need new 2.0T info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I think you're misquoting me. Chris brought up gapping on the 1.8T above...
Chris-
"I've got no 1.8Ts that make any power that can run a .032 gap."
I was just reponding to that.
Again, I posted farther above that...
"The logs I have done have been BOTH on a multitude of the 1.8t and of course I did the same on my 2.0T FSI. Also another member here did the same testing. Maybe he'll be nice enough to post. Here is the stocker for my 2.0T FSI and the F5dp0r... Again, consitent results for me with 3 degrees less retard but just as important, there were much lower spikes in the retard"
Sure, a lot of testing has been done on the 1.8t and I only brought that up earlier to show it is consistent with the results I have had on the 2.0T FSI and it seems consistent with what a tuner also tested with the 2.0TFSI. 
Stock plug for 2.0TFSI is Bosch F6KPP332S
Stock gap for the 2.0TFSI is .028
cheers! Mike



_Modified by bhvrdr at 2:11 PM 2-18-2006_


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_It was just a misunderstanding of what you meant by orientation..i still would not use that to define gapping the plugs.
I'll try some f5dpor once I locate a set.. But experience with similar plugs on several engines has shown negative results.
Again anything bosch, platinum or multiple ground I have tested has been bad.. put those three in one and you've generally got crap.
I used to deal with a supplier that had a few grand in bosch platinum inventory. Bosch would not take them back and they refused to sell them since everyone who bought them returned them, it was wasting the shops time and money so they just sat on them.

Right on. Just remember these are a pretty unique design. I think you sell Revo, so it may also be cool to check out your brother dealer ecode who uses the Bosch tri electrode copper with great success on their custom Revo big turbo applications. That's one I havent tested yet. I guess it just comes down to testing each one and going with what you see good results on. I went this route, maybe down the road i'll find something better. 
cheers! Mike


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
Right on. Just remember these are a pretty unique design. I think you sell Revo, so it may also be cool to check out your brother dealer ecode who uses the Bosch tri electrode copper with great success on their custom Revo big turbo applications. That's one I havent tested yet. I guess it just comes down to testing each one and going with what you see good results on. I went this route, maybe down the road i'll find something better. 
cheers! Mike

I've even tried those.. my 1.8t barely idled with them in.. That was back when I was still working for AWE.. I took them out before I even left the shop I feared I would not make it home. I think I finally just threw them out a few months ago, I was looking through my tool box yesterday (was at the dealer not the shop) to see what I had laying around. Also threw out apparently 20 or so 3922/23s with only a few K on them.
The bkr7(6)es would pretty much be a copper drop in replacement for stock plug in the 2.0T both gapped at a .032. Could not find a good reference for the stock plugs in the 2.0T.. most searches of the part number came up dry.
To make a 1.8t example again just because it is related to gap. When I would run the 3922s or 23s I would gap them down to .028. When they would open up from wear to not even a .032 the car would slowly start to misfire at lower and lower rpms under WOT.. It woudl start out at liek 20psi.. then slowly down to about 12psi before I got annoyed and would finally swap them out. This was with a 28R on the stock manifold making only about 260 or so to two wheels, and just shy of 300ft/lbs also to two wheels.


_Modified by PD Performance at 2:05 PM 2/18/2006_


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_I've even tried those.. my 1.8t barely idled with them in.. That was back when I was still working for AWE.. I took them out before I even left the shop I feared I would not make it home. I think I finally just threw them out a few months ago, I was looking through my tool box yesterday (was at the dealer not the shop) to see what I had laying around. Also threw out apparently 20 or so 3922/23s with only a few K on them.
The bkr7(6)es would pretty much be a copper drop in replacement for stock plug in the 2.0T both gapped at a .032. Could not find a good reference for the stock plugs in the 2.0T.. most searches of the part number came up dry.
To make a 1.8t example again just because it is related to gap. When I would run the 3922s or 23s I would gap them down to .028. When they would open up from wear to not even a .032 the car would slowly start to misfire at lower and lower rpms under WOT.. It woudl start out at liek 20psi.. then slowly down to about 12psi before I got annoyed and would finally swap them out. This was with a 28R on the stock manifold making only about 260 or so to two wheels, and just shy of 300ft/lbs also to two wheels.

_Modified by PD Performance at 2:05 PM 2/18/2006_

Thanks for the info. on the Bosch coppers. I guess i'll put off testing them for awhile








You havent taken the spark plugs out on the 2.0TFSI? I posted the picture of the stock plug and the f5 plug earlier. 
Stocker is not yet parts listed. It's still proprietary for a bit I would guess. It's F6KPP332S. It's stock gap is .028.
EDIT: Just to add, if you want to save some cash on the f5dp0r chris check out these guys...
http://www.autohausaz.com/sear...5dp0r
$11.83 per plug. More expensive than coppers, but will last about three times as long being extremely conservative in your changes (basically that would be changing them out at about 30% their advertised lifespan, someting I routinely do). 
cheers! Mike



_Modified by bhvrdr at 2:24 PM 2-18-2006_


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
You havent taken the spark plugs out on the 2.0TFSI? I posted the picture of the stock plug and the f5 plug earlier. 
Stocker is not yet parts listed. It's still proprietary for a bit I would guess. It's F6KPP332S. It's stock gap is .028.
cheers! Mike


No I have taken them out and took them out again yesterday while doing my 15K just to see if I had anything else lying around to try but I didn't.. Mine are gapped to .032, no signs of wear to make be believe they opened up.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_No I have taken them out and took them out again yesterday while doing my 15K just to see if I had anything else lying around to try but I didn't.. Mine are gapped to .032, no signs of wear to make be believe they opened up.

Odd, I could barely get the feeler past .027 without pushing very hard. Same for all four of them. Plugs had 1000 miles on them. Could be yours wore a bit. I took this photo showing the gap tool is only being held in the gap because I wedged it in there and it still reads only .028.








cheers! Mike


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

Definitly strange.. syntrix also said the stock gap was .032.. I didn't check to see if vesis had a spec or not.
I did put mine on a plug gap checker though and it slid right past .030 and stopped at .032.. If they wore that much in 15K on double platinum plugs thats not good at all..


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_Definitly strange.. syntrix also said the stock gap was .032.. I didn't check to see if vesis had a spec or not.
I did put mine on a plug gap checker though and it slid right past .030 and stopped at .032.. If they wore that much in 15K on double platinum plugs thats not good at all.. 

He mentioned that the sock plugs for the 1.8t and the 2.0T FSI are the same as far as he knows so he might have been basing it on the 1.8t plug. They're not the same. I'll grab a set from our parts department monday to see if theyre the same at .028. I doubt mine shrank and I even cleaned them off to double check.
cheers! Mike


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
He mentioned that the sock plugs for the 1.8t and the 2.0T FSI are the same as far as he knows so he might have been basing it on the 1.8t plug. They're not the same. I'll grab a set from our parts department monday to see if theyre the same at .028. I doubt mine shrank and I even cleaned them off to double check.
cheers! Mike

No he mentioned the gap was .032 not that the plugs were the same becuase they are not.
I mentioned that the ngks would be a good copper drop in because they are the same style as the stock plugs single ground directly over the electrode.
Not too likely a parts department will have them in stock yet since very few cars have gotten to that point to need them and parts departments are not known to keep just in stock just because you may need it.


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (syntrix)*

I got 4 of the Bosch F5DP0R from [email protected] for $44 shipped.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_No he mentioned the gap was .032 not that the plugs were the same becuase they are not.
I mentioned that the ngks would be a good copper drop in because they are the same style as the stock plugs single ground directly over the electrode.
Not too likely a parts department will have them in stock yet since very few cars have gotten to that point to need them and parts departments are not known to keep just in stock just because you may need it.

I'll get them the next day if they're not in stock. No problem.
No worries about surface gap plugs. 
Bosch states...
"Spark plugs for use with direct gasoline injection: a. surface gap spark plug without noble metal, b. surface gap spark plug with platinum center electrode, c. air gap spark plug with platinum on center electrode."
The air gap coppers like the NGK do not fit into these categories, but I agree they will probably work fine.
cheers! Mike


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (syntrix)*

$12.31 each
http://www.drivewire.com/audip....html 
$69.95 for 5
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage...nance 



_Modified by pturner67 at 9:49 PM 3-15-2006_


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (pturner67)*

Paul, ECS price is for 5 plugs


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (Nurendra)*

oops...lol...corrected...thanks


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## .:R:. (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: (pturner67)*

Has anyone tryed Denso Iriduim plugs? I had them in my 1.8t and they run fast as hell but burn't out in a week..


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## D S C (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_
I'll try and get a hold of the f5dpor this week and test them out. My experience with platinum and multi prong plugs.. especially from *bosch has always been much rougher running and even on NA motors *a very noticeable loss in power.

This is weird that you say this because on the last NA motor I had, I used the Bosch Platinum +4s and they woke up the engine. I felt a crisper, more sharp throttle response, it just felt meaner. It would be nuts to say that horse power increased but I could swear that before with the old coppers I would hit the throttle and it would be a weak, dull and slow response. The +4s improved all that x4.


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (D S C)*

I agree with Chris on the +4's. I've seen nothing good come out of those plugs.


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## AudiHVParts (Oct 27, 2005)

A little addition to this. 
I was chipped with the GIAC x+ chip and immediately began getting a little bit of detonation. Nothing serious mind you, but about a second's worth when at lower RPM's and WOT. 
Today I changed out the plugs with the bosch F5DP0R's and the pinging is completely gone.
Thanks guys for this thread, it has proved invaluable in dealing with this issue.


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (AudiHVParts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AudiHVParts* »_A little addition to this. 
I was chipped with the GIAC x+ chip and immediately began getting a little bit of detonation. Nothing serious mind you, but about a second's worth when at lower RPM's and WOT. 
Today I changed out the plugs with the bosch F5DP0R's and the pinging is completely gone.
Thanks guys for this thread, it has proved invaluable in dealing with this issue.

Glad to hear others are having similar results and success. Good deal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Cheers! Mike


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## caj1 (Feb 16, 1999)

$13 a piece at Impex.
Three thing's I've learned not to go cheap on related to your car.. tires, brakes, and plugs.


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (caj1)*

See my post a bit up where you can get them for $44 shipped


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (Nurendra)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nurendra* »_I got 4 of the Bosch F5DP0R from [email protected] for $44 shipped.

search fap99 on ebay. 
+1 for that source!


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
He mentioned that the sock plugs for the 1.8t and the 2.0T FSI are the same as far as he knows so he might have been basing it on the 1.8t plug. They're not the same. I'll grab a set from our parts department monday to see if theyre the same at .028. I doubt mine shrank and I even cleaned them off to double check.
cheers! Mike

Mike, I just swapped to F5DP0Rs today and checked the gap on my stock plugs. All of them were at .032.
The part # is F6KPP332S (Bosch)
Dave


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (crew217)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew217* »_Mike, I just swapped to F5DP0Rs today and checked the gap on my stock plugs. All of them were at .032.
The part # is F6KPP332S (Bosch)
Dave

Thanks Dave. Let me know how they log out for you. I have checked all of mine with 1000miles on them and mine are all at .028 as pictured above. Same p/n as you. Perhaps there is a bit of variance on them after they get some miles on them. How many miles on your car out of curiousity? Looks like i'll be going to the dealership afterall to do a check on brand new ones. cheers! Mike


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
Thanks Dave. Let me know how they log out for you. I have checked all of mine with 1000miles on them and mine are all at .028 as pictured above. Same p/n as you. Perhaps there is a bit of variance on them after they get some miles on them. How many miles on your car out of curiousity? Looks like i'll be going to the dealership afterall to do a check on brand new ones. cheers! Mike

8500 miles
Perhaps it's your gapper/checker? I never put much faith in the consistency of those round disks.
Dave


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (crew217)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew217* »_8500 miles
Perhaps it's your gapper/checker? I never put much faith in the consistency of those round disks.
Dave

Or the transv/long difference?
Unlikely, but it's the blaring obvious difference between the gaps and cars.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (syntrix)*

oh wait, you have an A3.... point the finger at the gapper, lol.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_Odd, I could barely get the feeler past .027 without pushing very hard. Same for all four of them. Plugs had 1000 miles on them. Could be yours wore a bit. I took this photo showing the gap tool is only being held in the gap because I wedged it in there and it still reads only .028.








cheers! Mike


Also, I would NEVER use one of these gap tools. Very unreliable!!!!! Cheers Mike, you should get some good feeler gauges! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (crew217)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew217* »_8500 miles
Perhaps it's your gapper/checker? I never put much faith in the consistency of those round disks.
Dave

I've got boxes of new spark plugs in the garage so I hopped out there to cross check.
Here's a brand new NGK BKR7E...








Here's my stockers...








I'll have to check a box of new ones. cheers! Mike


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

I'd still never trust a gapper like that!


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (syntrix)*

Either way, we know the BKR7E are gapped at .032 and my box of them is all showing that and the stockers are showing less as can be seen on the same tool. It's not rocket science. For some reason my are gapped at .028 at 1000miles and Daves are gapped at .032 at 8000miles. Not sure why. Same part number. cheers! Mike


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

and don't forget mine @ about 3k miles.
but behaviourally this would make no sense unless it's akin to using motorcycle gloves for a prostate exam?
Yes, that's correct, bkr7e's usually come at .032. You need to check them before installing though.


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## zemun2 (Sep 2, 2004)

I have tried BKR6E, BKR7E, F5LTCR, F7LTCR and F5DPOR and Platins showed least ammount of timing retard.
I'm talking about my REVO tuned 1.8t running SK04. By running F5's I was able to advance my timing from T4 to T5 and keep same retard (less then 6 on all 4)


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (zemun2)*

Yeah, I'll bet!
We are talking about the 2.0T engine here. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## zemun2 (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_Yeah, I'll bet!
We are talking about the 2.0T engine here. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

And your point is?
As you can see it hasnt been tested on 2.0t yet, but people were saying same thing for the 1.8t "platins are crap stick to copper" as you can see platins work much better, at least on 1.8t...


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (zemun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zemun2* »_And your point is?
As you can see it hasnt been tested on 2.0t yet, but people were saying same thing for the 1.8t "platins are crap stick to copper" as you can see platins work much better, at least on 1.8t...

My point is that I have to pull my F5DP0R's and get some macro shots of them. I will be pulling them out of my 2.0T and posting pics online.
Thanks for the reminder!!!1111!!!11!!1! Oh, and most of us here realize that 1.8T isn't even close to 2.0T http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Electron Man (Sep 21, 1999)

*Re: (zemun2)*


_Quote »_...people were saying same thing for the 1.8t "platins are crap stick to copper"...

One thing people don't realize about the Bosch Platin F5DPOR plug is it has a *solid platinum* center electrode...not a platinum plated electrode like all other "platinum" plugs. Lumping the DP5OR in with other platinum plugs is an invalid comparison.
This is a very important distinction because the center electrode must transfer heat away from the tip of the center electrode (reducing the possibilty of another pre-ignition point...and loss of timing advance) before the cylinder "fires" again.










_Modified by Electron Man at 10:44 AM 4-5-2006_


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

so for the final word. what is the best spark plug for 2.0T FSI


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (rysskiiy3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rysskiiy3* »_so for the final word. what is the best spark plug for 2.0T FSI


LOL!!!


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## WetWagen (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: (rysskiiy3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rysskiiy3* »_so for the final word. what is the best spark plug for 2.0T FSI

What's wrong with the factory plug?


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## dobuy (Jun 23, 2006)

I would be interested in finding out what is the best plug for a stock 2.0FSI, as I am racing one of these in a one make race series, all with standard engines, so any little gains would be beneficial


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

*Re: (dobuy)*

I have a 20k service coming up soon for my A3.
which damn aftermarket plug would be best to go with here and leave it at the factory gap.
i am running APR exhaust, chip and carbonio 
someone have just a plain ole answer?


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (ProjectA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ProjectA3* »_I have a 20k service coming up soon for my A3.
which damn aftermarket plug would be best to go with here and leave it at the factory gap.
i am running APR exhaust, chip and carbonio 
someone have just a plain ole answer?

Ask people what is the best aftermarket chip to go with too and see if you can get a plain ole answer








I still have great success with the f5dp0r . Been fantastic. I heard Dave might have run into problems with them but i've had great success with two of my cars and 5 of us other FSI folks who have them in. cheers! Mike


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bhvrdr* »_
Ask people what is the best aftermarket chip to go with too and see if you can get a plain ole answer








I still have great success with the f5dp0r . Been fantastic. I heard Dave might have run into problems with them but i've had great success with two of my cars and 5 of us other FSI folks who have them in. cheers! Mike

Yep I was going to send brian the same exact thing . . . go for the F5DP0Rs because quite a few APR users are using them without any issues. 
I am running the NGK BKR7EIX plug with no issues on different software.
Dave


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (bhvrdr)*

I'm with Mike and Dave http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

_Quote »_Yep I was going to send brian the same exact thing . . . go for the F5DP0Rs because quite a few APR users are using them without any issues.
I am running the NGK BKR7EIX plug with no issues on different software.
Dave

Ordered some F5DP0Rs on eBay. $50 for 4, including shipping and insurance. The price we pay for peace of mind and performance.


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

I'll be giving the NGK BKR7EIX plugs a go this week in my APR Stage 2 GLI.
We'll see how it goes. Car isn't misfiring or having driveability issues but, I've seen it pull 6 degrees of timing on a pull and I'd like to see if this has an effect.
Also, since I'm fairily modded I believe the stockers should be swapped out to a higher performing plug.
We'll see.


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## novaleadfoot (Jun 23, 2006)

*Re: (thread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thread* »_I'll be giving the NGK BKR7EIX plugs a go this week in my APR Stage 2 GLI.
We'll see how it goes. Car isn't misfiring or having driveability issues but, I've seen it pull 6 degrees of timing on a pull and I'd like to see if this has an effect.
Also, since I'm fairily modded I believe the stockers should be swapped out to a higher performing plug.
We'll see.

how did the NGK plugs work out?


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (novaleadfoot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *novaleadfoot* »_
how did the NGK plugs work out?

Great! I put them in Thursday night and the idle was smoother but, it could just be because the plugs are new. The old plugs looked perfect, not a lot of carbon buildup. 
I just finished driving from Palo Alto to Fontana for Dubwars and the car was smooth throughout.
So, no complaints so far. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (thread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thread* »_I'll be giving the NGK BKR7EIX plugs a go this week in my APR Stage 2 GLI.
We'll see how it goes. Car isn't misfiring or having driveability issues but, I've seen it pull 6 degrees of timing on a pull and I'd like to see if this has an effect.
Also, since I'm fairily modded I believe the stockers should be swapped out to a higher performing plug.
We'll see.

Follower!!!








Dave


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## novaleadfoot (Jun 23, 2006)

*Re: (thread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thread* »_Great! I put them in Thursday night and the idle was smoother but, it could just be because the plugs are new. The old plugs looked perfect, not a lot of carbon buildup. 
I just finished driving from Palo Alto to Fontana for Dubwars and the car was smooth throughout.
So, no complaints so far. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

What's the diff between the NGK BKR7EIX and the BKR7E? What's the IX mean? Platinum vs copper?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (novaleadfoot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *novaleadfoot* »_
What's the diff between the NGK BKR7EIX and the BKR7E? What's the IX mean? Platinum vs copper?

IX is iridium


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (crew217)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew217* »_
Follower!!!








Dave









But, thanks for the info on the plugs, I owe ya one.


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## novaleadfoot (Jun 23, 2006)

*Re: (thread)*

I ordered the F5DPOR plugs yesterday from http://www.autopartsauthority.com for $12.72 each...free shipping and no tax
called the audi stealership and they had the plugs for $23...no thanks


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## novaleadfoot (Jun 23, 2006)

*Re: (crew217)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew217* »_IX is iridium

damn...slightly embarrassed...lol


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## adeck20 (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: (novaleadfoot)*

I'm doing my 20k service; obviously I need to replace the plugs. Engine wise my car is still stock but soon will be chipped and in the near future a turbo-back exhaust.
I went to the dealership and they wanted $28 per plug for the OEM replacement VW#101 905 631 B, worldimpex.com has them for $19. I checked the # on my plugs and its F6KPP332S, is this something I could pickup at a local auto parts store? Is there an alternative plug that would perform just as well or better?
From what I've read the OEM plug is expensive because the electrode is solid platinum? I see many people are using the F5DPOR, I tried to purchase this plug at Pep Boys and they had no idea what plug this was.

_Modified by adeck20 at 9:17 AM 8-7-2006_


_Modified by adeck20 at 9:18 AM 8-7-2006_


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (adeck20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adeck20* »_I'm doing my 20k service; obviously I need to replace the plugs. Engine wise my car is still stock but soon will be chipped and in the near future a turbo-back exhaust.
I went to the dealership and they wanted $28 per plug for the OEM replacement VW#101 905 631 B, worldimpex.com has them for $19. I checked the # on my plugs and its F6KPP332S, is this something I could pickup at a local auto parts store? Is there an alternative plug that would perform just as well or better?
From what I've read the OEM plug is expensive because the electrode is solid platinum? I see many people are using the F5DPOR, I tried to purchase this plug at Pep Boys and they had no idea what plug this was.

_Modified by adeck20 at 9:17 AM 8-7-2006_

_Modified by adeck20 at 9:18 AM 8-7-2006_

Bosch does not even list that plug. Neither do they list your OEM plug. Here is a good place to get the f5dp0r...
http://www.autohausaz.com
cheers! Mike


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## Nurendra (Feb 6, 2001)

Or here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWD1V


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