# Jetta fuel injector problem



## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Need help*

1996 VW Jetta
am having trouble with what is wrong with it.
the blinking lights put out the code, i looked it up,
it said something was wrong with the #1 fuel injector 
or the #1 fuel injector wiring
we have replaced the fuel injector twice now, 
after the first replace it worked normal for a bit, then went out, so we put a second one in, and it did the same thing
what it does is it will start fine, then it'll drop below 1k rpm and the car will shake... basically it does this anytime the rpms drop... they wont drop back to an idle they will go below and then come back up to an idle
what i want to know, could it be the wiring? or is it maybe the computer?
/edit
I am pretty sure it is CIS
also I would appreciate any ideas at all 
even if you might not know exactly what it is... 
we already took the jetta to the best mechanic in town and he could only tell us what he thought it might be, so obviously im out of help in this town


_Modified by cpaulsell at 7:42 PM 9-14-2007_


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: Need help (cpaulsell)*

Can't be CIS if you have injector wires and fault codes for individual injectors.... Do you have wires to the injectors?
Presume that the #1 is NOT the issue. What are the specific symptoms? Sounds like an idle issue. Do you have an idle throttle switch? Perhaps your ICV is malfunctioning.
Is that the only code? When you clear the code, will it again spit the code right away? What is the number that you are getting?
Does the injector have a fuel line to it? Is it clean. Pull the injector and observe the spray pattern.


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

im not sure about the code, but when me and my dad look it up in the book it says it is either the #1 fuel injector or the #1 fuel injector wire
it is the only code though, not too sure what u mean by clear the code, but it keeps putting the code in over and over, and if we take it out, and re-do it, it is the same one.
i am pretty sure the injector has a fuel line too it, dont see why it wouldnt, will take your advice on pulling it though 
the issue does seem like an idle issue, and im not too certain about the idle throttle switch, if it is something you have to install on your own, then no, because the car is stock
dont know too much about cars, me and my dad have to do some stuff tomorrow, and i will get back on here and post what we know, and hopefully you can help us a little bit more... 
if there is anything else u want to know just post it


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

Get that code number and write it down.
Does the injector ALSO have wires to it, or just a fuel line?
An idle switch is stock on manual transmissions.
How are you "taking the code out?"


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (PASHAT)*

it does have wires to it, i would assume, or else there wouldnt be any wires to check 
taking the code out?
um theres a thing you plug in and then you do whatever
and it blinks the code to you


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cpaulsell* »_ i would assume, 


Don't.


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## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (PASHAT)*

Sounds like he's retrieving fault codes using this method? http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3434486


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (Chris164935)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris164935* »_Sounds like he's retrieving fault codes using this method? http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3434486


Could be....I am not sure he knows. His is a 1996 which should not be blink codes anymore. He should need a vag com unless it is osbII. It seems to me that after removing blink codes VW replaced them in 1994, but that is beyond my experience. I only wish mine had had access to them.


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (PASHAT)*

96 is OBD-1. CIS on 8v ended about 1987. 87-92 was Digifant-2.
Go to an Advance Auto or any store like that, they have a generic code reader.... which you may have done already...
if it is consistently #1 injector and you replaced it with a NEW one then I would check the wiring harness to the injectors first. IIRC it takes all 4 injectors into a single plug. Any of the 4 injectors could have a bad ground wire which would give a fault reading...


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

thanks ohiobenz i will do that
one question though.
if its a bad ground giving a fault reading, then why would the car act the way it does?


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OhioBenz* »_96 is OBD-1. CIS on 8v ended about 1987. 87-92 was Digifant-2.


Is that true of all VWs except the Passats, or just Jettas?
How come VW didn't have to put standard OBD-II in in 1996 like other vehicles did?
Will any standard code reader read VW OBD-1, or do you need vag com?


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (PASHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PASHAT* »_
Is that true of all VWs except the Passats, or just Jettas?
How come VW didn't have to put standard OBD-II in in 1996 like other vehicles did?
Will any standard code reader read VW OBD-1, or do you need vag com?

B3 Passat had the OBD-1 VR6 or the CIS-e Motronic. I thought OBD-2 didnt happen in Jetta/Golf until the Mex motor went in - sometime late 96. 
If his car is titled 96 - chances are it was built in 95. It should actually say so under the hood on a sticker....
as far as I know the injector harnesses were single plug all the way back to 87 Digi-2. They were single plug on the G60 and the MK3 OBD-1 that I've worked on.
I took my 97 GLS to get read at Advanced - now it will read all the codes for the engine, not stuff for the airbags etc. If it doesnt know the code it will tell you it is a manufacturer specific code, then you look it up in the Bentley...
PS - how close are you to Tempe/Phoenix/Tuscon?? my son is at ASU and he's learned a lot of VW for the past 7 years.


_Modified by OhioBenz at 9:21 PM 9-16-2007_


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cpaulsell* »_thanks ohiobenz i will do that
one question though.
if its a bad ground giving a fault reading, then why would the car act the way it does?

not sure at the moment - i guess i'm reacting to the error code repeating the #1 injector...
Maybe the ECU measures total resistance of the injectors its firing. For some reason i think it fires 2 at a time (3 wire connector - 1 ground 2 separate hots for 2 injectors ea)
I really dont do a lot of electronic injection at the moment and its been awhile since ive messed with Digi-2.
Do you have a Bentley???


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (OhioBenz)*

Didn't mean to thread jack, but thanks OhioBenz.


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

its all good, no problem, i talked to ohiobenz and hopefully the tips he gave me will help get it fixxed


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

Check those wires carefully....if a hot wire from the ECU is grounding/bare it could cause the car to not run properly.


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (PASHAT)*

haha thats the plan man, hopefully its just that bc if theres no problem there, i wouldnt know where to go from there
/edit
im out for tonight, i will get back on and post whats going on with the problem when we get around to doing it
thanks for all the help thus far


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

Don't rely solely on the computer output for diagnosis. It could be something unrelated, or it could be something that is not directly related, such as a broken motor mount causing a misreading on #1.


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

broken motor mount?
lets take it one step at a time...
did the voltage test on page 24a-18 of the "bentley"
should we do the LED thing? or does it matter at all?
dont know if you wanted me to do the resistence one??
did #2 .. the voltage one... voltage was constant and good, wiggled it around... nothing happened...
read a little more on... not #3 read 4
says 
"if there is positive battery voltage at the connector but no pulsed ground signal, check the wiring between the ecm and the injectors . if no wiring faults can be found, the ecm may be faulty."
ok. so we have positive battery voltage... 
how do i check the pulsed ground signal???
my dad said the mechanic he took it to said there was a pulsed ground signal... but i dont really trust the mechanics at that place... so how would i check it myself???? 



_Modified by cpaulsell at 7:04 PM 9-19-2007_


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

ok so i was just thinking that maybe something else was wrong so i went to do the blink codes again, 
i got 2111, which is because the engine isnt on
then i got 2312, ECT sensor
then the fuel injector one 4411
im going to test the ECT sensor but i want to know if theres a certain reason the code came up, like maybe because the engine was off or does it not matter?


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

Clear the codes and see if they repeat....


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (PASHAT)*

will do


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

ok ive been out there for about 20 minutes doing this thing, pulling out putting in... over and over
at first i was getting the first blink code 4411, over and over, then after a few minutes of that it started giving me 4413
keep in mind i was trying to erase them, and i got a code to erase that i never even had
so i got mad bc it seemed like it would never end...
so i tried to get a code out of it again
it gave me a totally different code this time... 2113
to me, i dont think it would erase the same code about 20 times, then erase a code it dont even have stored... so either im not doing this right...(doing it exactly like the bentley manual says) 
or.. my ECM/ECU might be out...
think so??


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

I doubt that your ECU is bad if it is spitting codes.
How are you erasing the codes?
Is 2113 the Hall sender? Have you checked it against the specs in your Bentley and also checked the leads? Is your fuel pump running?
4413 is #3 injector?
If the fuel pump was failing, could it cause fault codes at the injectors? If there is no signal at the hall sender, the fuel pump would shut down.
This is what I meant when I indicated that just because the error code is for a component doesn't mean the problem is actually at that component.
If the engine is running, and the problem is continuing, it will also continue to spit the code.
I would check the hall sender and the fuel pump. 
Also, I believe that I recall reading that the 2111 is a "false" fault code for the speed sensor.....mine spit this code and I didn't even have a speed sensor.....


_Modified by PASHAT at 10:38 PM 9-21-2007_


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (PASHAT)*

erasing in the bentley said to put the plug in,
turn it to the on position, hold for 5 seconds, remove, 
put in for 2.5 seconds
remove
1st code
another 2.5 seconds
remove
2nd code
etc etc 
until it spits 4 long blinks (0-0-0-0)
did it and it did what i said before
2113... in the bentley i believe it said something about camshaft position sensor
see my reason for thinking the ecu is bad is because the codes are like so unrelated and it cant coninuously spit the same codes, and obviously something is wrong with it
i believe 2111 is the speed sensor or something another, but it points out its for (rpms) and obviously if your car isnt on, you cant get rpms, so you'll always get this code
thats what my manual said, something like that
"4413 is #3 injector?"
yes
"If the fuel pump was failing, could it cause fault codes at the injectors?"
no idea im not the person to ask... maybe someone else can answer this?
i would believe that the fuel pump is running, and not shut down, bc the car starts and runs good for a while then the check engine light comes on and it starts what its doing...
another thing here... just lemme add it...
fault code 2312
engine coolant temperature sensor (g62)
flip to page...
"The ECT sensor is one of the main inputs to the engine management system. Its signal is used to adapt ignition timing, injection time, and idle speed stabilization. In addition, the ECT signal is used to activate the knock control system, oxygen sensor operation, fuel tank venting, and exhaust gas recirculation."
this is the code it spat before i tried to erase it...
and it ties in with injection, and the idle is wierd, but today it would randomly jump up and down, like if i were to hit the pedal... but i wasnt...
it would be idling at about 1000 rpm then jump to between 3000-4000 at random...
just throwing in some more facts as i get them...
also i had a talk with ohiobenz the other day and he recommended getting a new injector wire harness, i have looked around, and couldnt find one on the net, im pretty sure our junkyard wouldnt have one,
but if you can, let me know of a site where i can get the injector wire harness from, or maybe a car that uses the same wire harness so i have a better chance of finding one at our junkyard(we only have one)
thanks in advance for any other helpful tips or info you all could give me


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

did the resistence test on the engine coolant temperature sensor
the ohms were jumping around from 1000-2000 then it calmed down and now everytime i check it it is measuring 007 ohms
and for the temp, it should have been between 1800-2000
any ideas?
think the sensor's bad?
update:
was driving the car tonight and the temp meter inside the car said it was cold every time i started it and the check engine light was off as well
when i started it to come home the temp was instantly higher than before and the check engine light was on


_Modified by cpaulsell at 12:11 AM 9-23-2007_


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

Change the sensor if it is suspect. They are cheap and often a source of problems. Ohms should not "jump around"...are you sure that you had the multimeter connected well?
The gage in your vehicle is controlled by a different sensor than the one you should have been tested. The vehicle gage readings have nothing to do with how your car runs.


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (PASHAT)*

i figured as much, but the check engine light only turns on when the car is warmed up..
and trust me, my dad knows basically all things electric... so he was basically tripping when they were jumping around...
yeah we are gonna replace it.. i ordered it... should have it wednesday, so hopefully ill be putting it in that day and ill give you an update after i put it in


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

ok i got it, put it in, and guess what? the check engine light came on
so i ran the blink code thing and got these codes in exact order
2113
2113
2113
2113
2312
2111
2111
2111
0000(end)
so what do you think?


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## cpaulsell (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

can someone please re-direct me to somewhere where i can get a VAG 1551 scan tool... or anything that can read the fault codes on a 1995 VW Jetta ( OBD 1 )


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## OhioBenz (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

have you tried the one that Advanced Auto uses?
any headway? i've been out of state...


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (cpaulsell)*

According to standard VW fault codes:

2113 is your Hall Sender
2111 is your speed sensor (a common mistaken fault)
2312 is your coolant tempt sensor or wiring.
Check your wires.


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