# 2.5'ers with software, step inside



## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

Just curious if this chip gets rid of the drive by wire lag. I am hating the lag to the point I am almost ready to get rid of the car. It sucks because I like the car overall, but this kind of ruins it.


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*

Don't do it! Keep the Rabbit! I've seen you on the street a couple times, and I must say I'm a big fan of your car. Very sleek http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Anyways, if you're talking about the GIAC chip, from what people have said, it makes a huge difference. I am planning on getting it done sometime in the near future. CG Motorsports is the only place I'm aware of in BC that does GIAC installation though, and someone on here posted that they were charging something ludicrous like 700 or 800 bucks for it







Call them up for more info.


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## weitaro (May 12, 2005)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*

!! i wanna see a pic of your rabbit!


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (david8814)*

OI got the impression that 034 Motorsports can provide a conversion kit to drive by cable...check out their website


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

They do make conversions, but not for our car (correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't find anything on their site).


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*

it does get rid of the lag somewhat. the car is much more responsive. the rpms still hold when you let off the gas though.


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## AdamVC (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_it does get rid of the lag somewhat. the car is much more responsive. the rpms still hold when you let off the gas though.

As soon as there is a chip that can get rid of that, I'll be all over it!! Maybe REVO will find the answer???


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (weitaro)*

Well, the first quote to do the car swap is basically ridiculous, so it seems I'll be keeping this thing for a while. Does an intake help at all? I wouldn't seem to think so, but I guess I've seen weirder things. 

_Quote, originally posted by *david8814* »_Don't do it! Keep the Rabbit! I've seen you on the street a couple times, and I must say I'm a big fan of your car. Very sleek http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Anyways, if you're talking about the GIAC chip, from what people have said, it makes a huge difference. I am planning on getting it done sometime in the near future. CG Motorsports is the only place I'm aware of in BC that does GIAC installation though, and someone on here posted that they were charging something ludicrous like 700 or 800 bucks for it







Call them up for more info.

Thanks for the compliment http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
7 - 800 seems pretty ridiculous, I'd rather head to Seattle and do it down there and make a weekend out of it or something.

_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_it does get rid of the lag somewhat. the car is much more responsive. the rpms still hold when you let off the gas though.

I'm with Adam, as soon as they get rid of the rev hang, I would be a happy camper.

_Quote, originally posted by *weitaro* »_!! i wanna see a pic of your rabbit!

You think I'm going to skip out on a pic whoring opportunity?


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (AdamVC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AdamVC* »_
As soon as there is a chip that can get rid of that, I'll be all over it!! Maybe REVO will find the answer???

it wont happen, it is what it is.


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## oceanjetta (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (AdamVC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AdamVC* »_
As soon as there is a chip that can get rid of that, I'll be all over it!! Maybe REVO will find the answer???

To get rid of the holding of rpms is either with a new lighter flywheel or upshifting early. I wish there was a chip for that though - it'd be easy and wouldn't necessarily void the warranty on the tranny.


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## Maestor_Shake (May 10, 2004)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (oceanjetta)*

I think the GIAC chip gets rid of the drive by wire lag quite well.


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (Maestor_Shake)*

The giac chip does a decent job at getting rid of the drive by wire lag but its still there a little bit. Im really happy with the gain after it so i would definatl recomend it to everyone with a bunny
Heres a little pic too, hope you guys like it


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## Blu_Hare (Mar 13, 2007)

we HAVE to get our rabbit back!
Nice bunnies!
Can't input much on this thread, have the 6spd tranny, but the GIAC chip still worked wonders!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## weitaro (May 12, 2005)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*

car looks good!! Is it on vogtland 50mm?
....mm...i am pretty off-topic here.....
but I know nth about fixing the delay....


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (weitaro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weitaro* »_car looks good!! Is it on vogtland 50mm?
....mm...i am pretty off-topic here.....
but I know nth about fixing the delay....









Sportlines...


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

Intake will reduce the lag somewhat... I noticed quite a difference after I installed my Evo, and it only gets better once the ECU readjusts. Plus there's the glorious noise








BTW those are 2 of the nicest rabbits on the tex imo... That laminex on the black bunny I'm guessing?


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (MattWayMK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MattWayMK5* »_
Heres a little pic too, hope you guys like it









where the f*** have you been!







pm me links to more pics of your car


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## VW Golf IV (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*

RedRabidRabbit,
just curious, is the lag from stop to start? what about shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, etc.?


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (VW Golf IV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *david8814* »_Intake will reduce the lag somewhat... I noticed quite a difference after I installed my Evo, and it only gets better once the ECU readjusts. Plus there's the glorious noise










http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_
where the f*** have you been!







pm me links to more pics of your car

You're not kidding, that thing is unreal! My monitor at work here is dark as hell, is that the Votex front? I need to pick up a lip and skirts so bad. 

_Quote, originally posted by *VW Golf IV* »_RedRabidRabbit,
just curious, is the lag from stop to start? what about shifting from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, etc.?

I don't have any problem up-shifting the car light throttle at all. Rev-matching is hit and miss but even that isn't too bad, the part that gets me is when you're romping on the car a little bit (say, pulling second at 80% throttle up to 4500 RPM) when you do your normal off gas/clutch in to shift to third, the motor keeps revving another 5 - 800 RPM or so. It drives me crazy because you have to slip the sh*t out of third. 



_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 3:57 PM 11-3-2007_


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (absoluteczech)*

hahaha i guess you like it? Check out my myspace http://www.myspace.com/mattwaymk5 theres some more pics of it on there


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (david8814)*


_Quote, originally posted by *david8814* »_They do make conversions, but not for our car (correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't find anything on their site). 

Wrong...








There is a DBC conversion kit for the MKV's as after all they still run the old ME-7 Motronic systems.


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## VW Golf IV (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_
the part that gets me is when you're romping on the car a little bit (say, pulling second at 80% throttle up to 4500 RPM) when you do your normal off gas/clutch in to shift to third, the motor keeps revving another 5 - 800 RPM or so. It drives me crazy because you have to slip the sh*t out of third. 
_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 3:57 PM 11-3-2007_

so if you shift at 5500 rpm you would hit redline because the motor would rev an additional 5-800 rpm?


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (whatsyourbeef)*

From personal experience I can tell you that the lag is greatly reduced after GIAC software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_OI got the impression that 034 Motorsports can provide a conversion kit to drive by cable...check out their website

However, this won't work with the factory engine management, but will work great if you are willing to go to standalone

_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_it does get rid of the lag somewhat. the car is much more responsive. the rpms still hold when you let off the gas though.

This is true, however, it is still drive by WIRE, thus there will always be some lag, it can only be reduced so much http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (VW Golf IV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW Golf IV* »_
so if you shift at 5500 rpm you would hit redline because the motor would rev an additional 5-800 rpm? 

Yep, unless you consciously think about letting off the throttle earlier than normal.


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## VW Golf IV (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_
Yep, unless you consciously think about letting off the throttle earlier than normal. 

did vw do this to help with rev-matching? just want to know what the purpose of having revs increase another 5-800rpm.
are the 08 rabbits the same?


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (VW Golf IV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW Golf IV* »_
did vw do this to help with rev-matching? just want to know what the purpose of having revs increase another 5-800rpm.
are the 08 rabbits the same?

I think most of it is emissions related.


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## silverA4quattro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_
I think most of it is emissions related. 

I think so too. I've read things regarding this, and apparently by delaying the throttle closing, it burns off fuel more completely.


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## no786 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (VW Golf IV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW Golf IV* »_
did vw do this to help with rev-matching? just want to know what the purpose of having revs increase another 5-800rpm.
are the 08 rabbits the same?

I have an 08, it does not seem to be as bad. It is still there but does not seem to jump as high as you have been stating.
I have not driven a 06-07 so I have no factual evidence.. This is just based on what you described..


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

ive never experienced this revving effect you are talking about. maybe its because i take my foot off the gas pedal when i finish the gear and engage the clutch. 
ill watch it today when i drive, but im willing to bet its caused by the driver keeping the foot on the pedal and not the car itself.


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## corradoken (Jan 19, 2003)

*Re: (travis3265)*

I've never experienced it, either. I'm not trying to tell others that they don't know what they're talking about, but in my experience, people tend to blame a system they don't like on a problem that it doesn't cause. VW has been using drive by wire for a while now, and I haven't heard others complaining about it. If it is causing a problem, it's so unnoticeable to me that it hasn't affected my driving in the least.
The problems people are complaining about are more likely due to a higher than normal rotational mass. Higher weight, harder to get moving (throttle lag) and harder to slow it down. (rev jump after close throttle). Keep in mind Volkswagen didn't build these cars to be raced, and your average driver will never notice or worry themselves with these problems. They built these cars to be driveable, and they did a fine job.
If the 08's do in fact have a lighter rotating assembly than the older engines as people speculate, that could explain why no786 and myself haven't experienced it. However, I have several friends that have 07 and older 2.5's and I have never heard them complain about it, nor seen it myself.




_Modified by corradoken at 8:40 PM 11-5-2007_


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## no786 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (corradoken)*

^
I believe they have toned down the throttle lag on the 2008 models.
(Different Flywheel maybe)
It all depends on the driver, some people drive harder and shift faster than others. I would not call this a driver error at all. There is defiantly a lag/rmp jump when shifting fast. There are some interesting emissions features on theses cars.(Throttle staying open to burn gas on shifts, along with delayed engine breaking) Probably the culprit to the problem.


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (no786)*

I'm not going to get into my driving abilities, I've been driving stick for 9 years, and I've owned a 10 second 5 speed street car and didn't have any issues with that car and I do consider myself a good driver. Driving this car around town is easy as pie. I can launch the car from a stop without going over idle speed without issue. This is not my complaint. If you're telling me when you downshift that the car starts engine braking right away, or that if you can drive your car aggresively the same way you used to drive cable operated throttles and don't have any issues, I don't know what to tell you other than perhaps the '08's are different. I can completely understand the point about it being an economy car and not a race car. People who know me on this board know I have owned cars with almost 5 times the power of this car and I do not expect it to be a race car. If you're accelerating up a hill in second gear for example, run the motor up to 4500 or so, and shift normally (or what is normal to me) the motor will rev up another few hundred rpm unless I consciously pull my foot off the throttle 1/2 second or so earler than "normal."





_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 4:07 PM 11-5-2007_


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## buckowheat (Mar 16, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (RedRabidRabbit)*

I have owned and driven VW's for over 20 years. While my '07 Jetta 2.5 5-speed is the best handling, most refined and fastest VW I have owned (3 TDI's in the last 10 years), this one is going away as soon as I can afford to replace it. I totally blame the rev-hanging and clutch/tranny for ruining an otherwise great car.
I'm already on my 2nd tranny at only 12,500 miles and the sounds it's making aren't confidence inspiring. I still haven't figured out what the clunking noise is everyting I shut off the car...it sound like a hammer wrapped in washcloth falling on an oak table. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## VW Golf IV (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (buckowheat)*

buckowheat, are your revs hanging when you lift your foot off the gas or does it actually _increase_ a few hundred revs?


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## buckowheat (Mar 16, 2007)

The rev hanging occurs when I lift off of the pedal on the right. While the rev's do not increase, it does take anywhere from 2 to 7 seconds before 'real' engine breaking occurs.


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## AdamVC (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: (buckowheat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buckowheat* »_The rev hanging occurs when I lift off of the pedal on the right. While the rev's do not increase, it does take anywhere from 2 to 7 seconds before 'real' engine breaking occurs. 

Exactly. I'm not quite sure what others are saying about the increase in revs, but is it possible of shifting quicker than the lag in the DBW system?? Only thing that I can think of for this problem!


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (AdamVC)*

I hope people don't think we're saying the revs increase when letting off the throttle _in gear_, we're talking about when pushing in the clutch between gears.


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## buckowheat (Mar 16, 2007)

I am still in gear when my rev's are hanging. My rev's do not increase when shifting (and clutching). Sorry for the mis que.


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## AdamVC (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_I hope people don't think we're saying the revs increase when letting off the throttle _in gear_, we're talking about when pushing in the clutch between gears.

Hmmm...I still don't have this problem. My revs drop normally when I press the clutch, but once I complete the downshift the revs don't drop for several seconds.
Any VW techs have any input?


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (AdamVC)*

Just powershift and you wont have the problem








Im just kidding btw, i probably wouldnt recomend anyone doing that on these cars


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## no786 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (buckowheat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buckowheat* »_I have owned and driven VW's for over 20 years. While my '07 Jetta 2.5 5-speed is the best handling, most refined and fastest VW I have owned (3 TDI's in the last 10 years), this one is going away as soon as I can afford to replace it. I totally blame the rev-hanging and clutch/tranny for ruining an otherwise great car.
I'm already on my 2nd tranny at only 12,500 miles and the sounds it's making aren't confidence inspiring. I still haven't figured out what the clunking noise is everyting I shut off the car...it sound like a hammer wrapped in washcloth falling on an oak table. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif *I still haven't figured out what the clunking noise is everyting I shut off the car...it sound like a hammer wrapped in washcloth falling on an oak table. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif* 
 
That maybe the windshield wipers recessing back into the hood.
Mine makes a noise on shut off as well that is what I have diagnosed the problem as.


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: 2.5'ers with software, step inside (no786)*


_Quote, originally posted by *no786* »_ 
That maybe the windshield wipers recessing back into the hood.
Mine makes a noise on shut off as well that is what I have diagnosed the problem as. 

x2, they switch back and forth quite often to prevent them from warping to one side.


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_I hope people don't think we're saying the revs increase when letting off the throttle _in gear_, we're talking about when pushing in the clutch between gears.

mine does it go up like 100-200 revs


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## VW Golf IV (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: (buckowheat)*

this issue with the hanging revs did you guys go back to the dealer and complain? a civic si owner had a similar issue and complained to the dealer and they reflashed his ECU and the problem went away. here is the link: 
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=...gl=ca


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## VW Golf IV (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: (VW Golf IV)*

if this issue with the hanging revs bother you guys so much that you regret buying your car i say go to the dealer and complain. who knows maybe they can fix it.


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## buckowheat (Mar 16, 2007)

I fixed the problem. Dealer service reported that there are no ECU flash upgrades. I traded it in on an '07 Audi A4. Done!

_Modified by buckowheat at 7:16 PM 11-10-2007_


_Modified by buckowheat at 7:16 PM 11-10-2007_


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## VW Golf IV (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: (buckowheat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buckowheat* »_I fixed the problem. Dealer service reported that there are no ECU flash upgrades. I traded it in on an '07 Audi A4. Done!


manual or automatic? so the audis don't have the rev problem?


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

yea i was about to say thats the same engine


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## buckowheat (Mar 16, 2007)

I went from the 2.5 liter 5-spd VW to the 2.0 liter automatic Audi.


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## buckowheat (Mar 16, 2007)

Good luck to all with the fuel injection mapping on your VW 2.5's. Especially to those owners with manual transmissions!


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rangerbrown* »_yea i was about to say thats the same engine








no its not, no a4 has our engine


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (buckowheat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buckowheat* »_I went from the 2.5 liter 5-spd VW to the 2.0 liter automatic Audi. 

lol good fix


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## buckowheat (Mar 16, 2007)

Thanks! Wow, what a car. You never know how good somthing 'better' really is until you try it. This Audi, my first quattro, ...takes driving to a whole new level. 
Sorry for the thread jack...now back to our previously scheduled session... 
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif










_Modified by buckowheat at 9:14 AM 11-17-2007_


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## Servo888 (Feb 25, 2007)

My 08 hangs bad too... When the engine is cold there is absolutely no hanging / rev lag, you can drive normally and shift normally. Once it warms up the lag comes back (so this is something the computer does). It's a real PITA when you want to accelerate quickly (not flooring it, but when you need to merge onto a crowded 60MPH road and your stopped); you can take 1st all the way up to 3,500 but you will end up waiting for a good 2-3 seconds for the RPM's to drop until you can engage 2nd gear. You can obviously use the clutch to slow the engine down, but it's pointless clutch wear IMHO. 
Though I have noticed there are points in the RPM range when the revs do not hang. Every once in a while I can take it up to 4,000-5,000 and the RPM's drop (quickly) while I shift into the next gear. It's a hit / miss process, but I will experiment with this some more.


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## chilipad (Jan 6, 2007)

My beef is when I downshift heading into a corner and the car speeds up instead of slowing down, due to the revs hanging. Takes alot of fun out of driving this car.


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (chilipad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chilipad* »_My beef is when I downshift heading into a corner and the car speeds up instead of slowing down, due to the revs hanging. Takes alot of fun out of driving this car.

Yup


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## buckowheat (Mar 16, 2007)

That does bite because it does happen. ...while the exact opposite of that happens too...
...while (quickly & lightly) left foot braking into a corner, the rev-hanging decides to 'un-hang' before you can squeeze the throttle back on. The car falls on its nose and you're left waiting for the acceleration to build again.
Good riddance !


_Modified by buckowheat at 6:45 AM 11-19-2007_


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