# TT 225 Stg2 dyno result: 190hp? Where to start diagnosing?



## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Asking for help as im a bit baffled.
I have vag com and some tools and dont fear work (may lack a bit of time sometimes).

Took my TT 225 to SoWo this weekend and had a chance to dyno it (4wd dyno).
Results were less than stellar: 190 hp to the wheels 

With all bolt ons recommended (42DD intake, fmic and turboback; apr dv; and a stage 2 tune) where do i start dianosing this thing? Stage 2 software claims 285 hp, which i wasnt expecting, but 190hp is far from that.

Pointers?
Some data: 
Boost at 21 psi max
MAF max reading at 189 gr/sec

I had a "big dog" tune in the past and went with a smaller tuner. i have to say my car feels better my the smaller tune so im not blaming the tune.

Any insights? Where do i start? 

Thanks you'all!!!!


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## Late__Apex (Dec 2, 2007)

First, you need to differentiate between wheel HP and crank HP. On a 4wd dyno multiply your wheel figure by 1.25 to 1.30 to get crank.

Second, your MAF reading at 189 is consistent with the HP you put down. My Stage 1 225 would put out over 210 g/s with stock exhaust.

What FMIC are you running? What are your fuel trims?

You could try calibrating your throttle body with VagCom and check your MAF condition.


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks Late_Apex, on to answers:
1. 190 hp to wheels and 219hp crank (dyno calculated)

2. I agree, my liquid TT is also showing peak hp at 225hp (liquid TT calculates off of MAF). Plus liquidTT measured 224hp during dyno runs so the numbers are consistent.

3. FMIC is a 42DD. Fuel trims I need to get.

4. Can definitely try that. Been looking at how to check the MAF and methods are sketchy, any pointers? It has been recently cleaned though. But they are known for going bad. 


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Crappy dyno pic


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## Late__Apex (Dec 2, 2007)

Well, everything looks normal just a little low. I'd log your requested and actual boost with VagCom.


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

We put down nearly identical numbers with practically the same upgrades.. The only thing is that I am still on OEM exhaust, but also have upgraded intake manifold.

Assuming you meet target boost without an issue and fuel trims are decent like me, I think we have the same "problem" in that our tunes are not as aggressive as they could be. Keep in mind the marketing numbers that get thrown around with the tunes are always going to be just that :beer:


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

yeah, does seem quite low... are u silicone'd out in the engine bay? or still using the stock TIP?

i'm stage 2 Uni, and i'm putting down 235 whp... the only real difference between your set up and mine would be the silicone and headers...


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Stop worrying, the numbers are normal and solid. Looking at the dyno plot, your curves are clean and typical for the car at your mod levels. There is no significant deep in both curves, they cross properly, and as should be expected from the factory turbo, you're making more TQ down low with the HP curve running out of breath up top. 

A dyno is is a tool! It's only used efficiently to: 

A) Get a baseline figure (that's what you've done) 
B) Compare future gains/loss from performance mods and tuning changes

People get caught up in comparing numbers of similarly modded cars that were dynoed on different days and rollers. This is one of the most absurd thing I've witnessed in car communities. Anyone with experiences using dynos will tell you that even numbers from the same manufacturer and type of dyno aren't comparable. I have dozens of dyno runs on my TT, hundreds from my various performance toys, no two dyno are the same, and only data from the same dyno (starting from solid baseline) can be used for comparison. For example, I just did a hybrid turbo swap on my car, first thing I did (before even doing any fuel and timing adjustments) is get some baseline data. That way, any tweaking after that can be monitored and measured to know what it's doing (good or bad). And even then, there is a margin of error that needs to be carefully accounted for by consistent correction factors. 

Don't pay attention to what others did with their cars on other piece of equipment, it's not directly comparable to your baseline figures. My 2 cents!


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Boulderhead:
That's interesting to hear that our numbers are similar, which tune are you using? I agree tuner numbers are marketing hype most of times but the gap from 225hp crank to 285hp seems quite big.

Krissrock:
All my hoses are forge silicone except for the MAP to throttle body hose. I use to run Uni stg2 tune but just recently switched to Malone stg2 instead (car feels better with Malone tbh)

Marcus:
I totally appreciate your comments. I truly believe dynos are just tools to help compare given a set of conditions. And even when using the same dyno, external conditions can influence readings. Thanks for the insight on the tq and hp curves too!

Luis


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2013)

Only thing I'm sure of is max is the man 

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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

Hi Luis, I am running APR's 93 program... and Max, as always thanks for sharing the real world wisdom you have picked up over the years. Happy Memorial day to all (including our fallen brethren) :beer:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

The numbers and graph itself are typical of a bolt-on 02x, those are similar to numbers forum member's had years ago even, and for whatever its worth APR is known for being a fairly moderate tune...


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks l88m22vette.

Looks like I found one of the culprits, the MAF.
Replaced it for a new one and The car pulls much better!

Now in reading a max of 220g/s instead of 189g/s 

I had cleaned the maf about a month ago and it looked ok, go figure.

Glad in getting closer. 
I still need to get trims and requested vs actual boost to ensure all is good.

Thanks all for your advice!!!


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

Had a chance to do some pulls yesterday in 3rd and 4th gear. 

Here's the liquidTT readout right before I hit 6k rpm:










CEL popped up today code 16795 for SAI issues, which I will take care of later. But so far happy with results!

Oh and fuel trims are showing Add: 2.6% and Mult: 8.5%


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## Converted2VW (Apr 8, 2009)

MAF reading s are looking low again.

I was reading 220 g/s and now it's reading 190 g/s max.


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