# Trunk Help



## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

I have the power trunk setup on my 2005 W12. Grandkids pressed the badge too many times and the trunk will now not open. Looks like the hydraulics want to open the trunk to such an extent that the hatch almost buckles but the lock is not releasing. Will not work with driver button or FOB. Only some activation with pushing the rear badge. Vag showed 


Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: 29 HSG 0101 
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3365E7AC51ACE6B9A3D-4B00

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D1 959 701 F
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 5616

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 3D1 959 702 F
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 5616

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 3D0 959 703 F
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 5616

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 3D0 959 704 F
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 5616

Subsystem 5 - Part No: 3D0 909 610 C
Component: 3L HDSG 2330

Subsystem 6 - Part No: 7L0 907 719 
Component: Neigungssensor 0020

5 Faults Found:
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12) 
000 - - 
01134 - Alarm Horn (H12) 
014 - Defective
01816 - Exterior Door Handle Switch in Drivers Door (F272) 
008 - Implausible Signal
01699 - Motor for Central Locking; Hatch/Trunk (V53) 
003 - Mechanical Failure - Intermittent
00896 - Trunk Lock Unit (F256) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

Cleared faults. They do not return.

Problem is that I can't get the hatch to open. Can't get to the fuse (it's in the trunk) - duh. Have read all the writeups and tried all suggested resets and solutions with no positive results. Have called my dealer and they are supposed to get back to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Gotta luv this car - keeps me young.:banghead:

Dennis


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## sean_m (Oct 6, 2010)

Are you able to open the trunk manually, with the key in the lock?


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

No. Key goes counterclockwise 90 degrees and stops. Does not move clockwise. Looks like something mechanical in the latch


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## sean_m (Oct 6, 2010)

I wonder if the kids managed to get something stuck in the latch. With VCDS, open controller 46 and run through the output tests until you get to "Control Circuit Rear Lid Unlock". There's a number of tests that will run first; you have to go in order. This should hopefully actuate the latch by itself. Then you can open the trunk by hand, inspect the latch, and attempt to close it normally. It may also be a good idea to readapt the lid once you get it opening.

I used this procedure to free a cord stuck in the latch last year, which caused a similar situation as yours including the inability to turn the key. Good luck!


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

I originally tried but will give it another try. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Well things have not improved. Went to VW dealer and worked with the tech. Analyzing with the "real" VAGCOM gave the same error codes and no adaptation or test improvements. Spoke with VW central and VW Germany and the concensus is the lock is mechanically broken. They all recommend cutting a hole in the trunk lid to get access to the inside to either get to the lock mechanism or disconnect the hinges. :banghead::banghead: And, oh by the way, watch out for the modules and wiring in the trunk lid as you cut. Before I start this fun project does anybody have any other suggestions??? Was considering hiring a small person to climb through the skisack hole and remove the hinges:laugh:

Dennis


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Just saw this today- left you a voicemail and sent a few pics. Let me know if that helps, and give me a call.

Don't mess with the dealer- worst case scenario, I'll be down there in a couple weeks and we'll get it sorted.

:thumbup::beer:


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Still working on problem. I new have another issue in that the trunk light is on since the car thinks the boot is open and it is draining the battery. Can't get to the fuses. Anybody have a suggestion as to how to turn off the light? Since I can't get to the batteries I will have to jump the car to get it started if they are both drained.


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

Bummer of a problem, Dennis.

Quick solution might be to cut the ski bag off from the back seat pass-thru, then use a long tool to turn the emergency exit lever on the inside of the boot lid.

Cheers,

Dave


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Actually tried that as one of the first "solutions". Unfortunately the emergency handle is a microswitch not a mechanical lever so it operates in conjunction with the latch mechanism which is the item that is broken. Probably going to have to drill out the badge and see if I can get to the mechanical from there.


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

Man, what a mess.

Maybe it's less destructive to remove the back seat from inside the car and have full access to the trunk?


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Yea. Looked into that but there are metal plates on both sides of the ski sack which would necessitate cutting and then rewelding. (Don't know if the're structural or not) PUtting that "solution" on hold as I continue to ponder.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

What do I win if I get it open within 5 minutes- non destructive?


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## cbh123 (Aug 25, 2013)

PowerDubs said:


> What do I win if I get it open within 5 minutes- non destructive?


It is fun to agree with J - makes me feel less PA 

I would like more than 5 mins.. But I think an experienced guy will get it open without saw blades


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

You guys are killing me!! Josh-if you can get it open, non-destructively in under 5 minutes I will be eternally grateful.:laugh: Sorry, retired guys have no money


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

No money needed. Just beer.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

madreg98 said:


> Well things have not improved. Went to VW dealer and worked with the tech. Analyzing with the "real" VAGCOM gave the same error codes and no adaptation or test improvements. Spoke with VW central and VW Germany and the concensus is the lock is mechanically broken. They all recommend cutting a hole in the trunk lid to get access to the inside to either get to the lock mechanism or disconnect the hinges. :banghead::banghead: And, oh by the way, watch out for the modules and wiring in the trunk lid as you cut. Before I start this fun project does anybody have any other suggestions??? Was considering hiring a small person to climb through the skisack hole and remove the hinges:laugh:
> 
> Dennis


Hey, I replaced my VW badge on my trunk lid a few months ago and it is attached to a pot metal plate that includes the lock cylinder. You are supposed to remove it all by opening the trunk first, but you could probably punch or cut the middle of the VW badge and break the pot metal lock cylinder carrier (Bentley "Lock Components with Servo Lid in section 55). If you can get that out of the way, you will have a large hole in the trunk lid without cutting it and needing it to be welded and painted. 

Edit: If you are careful, you won't break the cylinder and can reuse it. Also, you may be able to manipulate the latch after the cylinder is out of the way.

Edit: You will probably have to punch the liner out f the way also. If you have a warning triangle, I don't think you will be able to.

You can use a $100.00 bore scope from Sears to see inside. Edit 2020-11-11: Maybe Harbor Freight has one now that Sears is extinct.

The Volkswagen National e-store lists the lock carrier for $188.00 $253.33 (They call it a lock cyl Deck Lid Lock.) It's number 15 in this diagram:

https://parts.vw.com/a/Volkswagen_2...983806/TRUNK-LID-LID--COMPONENTS/9235710.html

I was going to suggest beating on the lock from the ski sack hole, but just looked at mine and realized the liner is in the way. Also, there is no way you could remove the hinges from inside the trunk. The hinges are in the area between the seal and the fenders. 

Edit: You could also check prices on eBay or other sites for good used trunk lids. See which is cheaper (lock carrier + whatever is broken inside or trunk lid). I think I saw some black ones on eBay a few months ago. A used trunk lid would also probably come with all the guts.

Good luck.

Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I just checked eBay and didn't find any inexpensive trunk lids with guts. Even then, the ones with guts were not black. 

There is a sliver one with guts (but it's manual and it looks like they already sold the lock carrier).

If you look at the pictures, you can see how they look without the lock carrier and how the hinges are outside the sealed area (picture 6):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trunk-Deck...626549?hash=item420def46b5:g:jE4AAOSw72Fd6mqG

This silver lid has the pot metal part still installed:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-2005-...swagen&hash=item216f78e92e:g:aBMAAOSwp0Beu6t5


Eric


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Thanks for the input Eric. I'm going to wait until Josh gets here and probably drill through the lock mechanism. Hopefully we can get it open that way. (Easier to purchase a new lock)


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Any luck yet?


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Have not looked at it since the last post. Josh will be available in two weeks and at that time we will probably have to drill out the lock.


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## ahw614 (Jun 8, 2015)

I've logged on today to ask the same question - how can I get into the trunk?

I'm in the UK and have had trouble with this before. That time it happened I think that the dealer removed the badge and somehow got in that way.

My car has been parked on my driveway for 12 months and during that time the trunk lock has not been operating. I have been opening and closing the lid by hand.

A couple of weeks ago when I opened it the close button illuminated and the mechanism started working again. I have opened and closed a bout a dozen times since then but now it seems to stuck in the closed position with the latch engaged and doesn't respond to the badge operated switch, internal switch or key fob. 

I have the same problem with trying to open it with the key as described - it will turn 90 degrees anti clockwise but will not turn clockwise at all.

Does anyone know what might be causing this?

I'd love to know when you find the solution to opening your how you do it.

Thanks

Adam
6.0W12 4 seater


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Adam, welcome to the forum!

The power trunk/boot lid key only turns counter-clockwise from its normal locked vertical position. The first 90 degrees is free motion, the 'click' action starts at 110 degrees and is completed by 180 degrees.

Chris


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## ahw614 (Jun 8, 2015)

Paximus said:


> Hi Adam, welcome to the forum!
> 
> The power trunk/boot lid key only turns counter-clockwise from its normal locked vertical position. The first 90 degrees is free motion, the 'click' action starts at 110 degrees and is completed by 180 degrees.
> 
> Chris



Thanks Chris - I'll try that later.

I think that mine appears to have 90 degrees of free motion in a clockwise direction from vertical.


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## ahw614 (Jun 8, 2015)

ahw614 said:


> Thanks Chris - I'll try that later.
> 
> I think that mine appears to have 90 degrees of free motion in a clockwise direction from vertical.



I WAS WRONG! 
There is 90 degrees of free motion counter clockwise then nothing - just stops dead.

Any suggestions from kindly folk out there?


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Hi Adam - Exactly my symptoms. I was able to get the key to turn past 90 degrees but it slips off the mechanism and does not open the lock. I will post when Josh and I have figured it out. I'm still leaning towards drilling out the logo and using an inspection camera to try and see what we can do without destroying the boot.

Dennis


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## ahw614 (Jun 8, 2015)

madreg98 said:


> Hi Adam - Exactly my symptoms. I was able to get the key to turn past 90 degrees but it slips off the mechanism and does not open the lock. I will post when Josh and I have figured it out. I'm still leaning towards drilling out the logo and using an inspection camera to try and see what we can do without destroying the boot.
> 
> Dennis


Thanks very much Dennis.

I will eagerly await your post.

Adam


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

madreg98 said:


> Hi Adam - Exactly my symptoms. I was able to get the key to turn past 90 degrees but it slips off the mechanism and does not open the lock. I will post when Josh and I have figured it out. I'm still leaning towards drilling out the logo and using an inspection camera to try and see what we can do without destroying the boot.
> 
> Dennis


Dennis, 

I just saw this on eBay when I was looking for something else:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Phaeton-Trunk-Boot-Badge-Emblem-Lock-3D5827601a-3d5827469/263490712819?


Eric


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## ahw614 (Jun 8, 2015)

madreg98 said:


> Hi Adam - Exactly my symptoms. I was able to get the key to turn past 90 degrees but it slips off the mechanism and does not open the lock. I will post when Josh and I have figured it out. I'm still leaning towards drilling out the logo and using an inspection camera to try and see what we can do without destroying the boot.
> 
> Dennis


Hi Dennis

Just wondered if Josh managed to get it open for you yet.

My car is now unusable because it has developed a puncture and the wheel nut key is locked in the trunk!

Goes from bad to worse.

Adam


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)




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## ahw614 (Jun 8, 2015)

PowerDubs said:


>




BRILLIANT - but how did you do it?

Don't suppose you fancy a trip to UK to fix mine?

Adam


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

https://vimeo.com/135918760


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)




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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

The phrase "you can't make omelettes without cracking eggs!" comes to mind... 

Chris


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

It was quite an effort. Actually took about two days of carefully working through the badge hole with various increasingly large tools. After dremeling off the badge and totally destroying the latch mechanism we pushed the inner liner off. Then I was able to get my hand into the trunk with a large screwdriver and slide it between the trunk lower ledge and engage the two claws. Since there was no remaining gearing (or anything for that matter!) it was easy to slide both claws to the open position and voila, success. After review, there appears to be very little collateral damage. Will need badge, latch mechanism, trunk hatch rubber gasket and one of the chrome pieces on the side of the lock bar. We saved the trunk lid which was one of our goals. We were unable to determine what actually caused the issue since most of the latch was in pieces:laugh: I love this car. That latch mechanism was an amazing piece of German engineering.

Dennis


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Glad it is open, and even more glad the trunk lid survived. Waaay more involved than I ever expected. Of somewhat interest- you can drive around with the latch assembly completely out and there is enough tension in the hydraulics to keep the trunk shut.


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## bazzasick4acc (Aug 26, 2015)

Can u explain in lil detail where to bore first and how to avoid wires and other essentails please

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi bazzasick4acc,

Fred/Paldi posted a photo of the outside of a trunk lid minus the badge, plus the parts diagram showing what components are behind the badge, at post #7 in this thread:

Bentley Badges on a Phaeton

It may give you a little guidance as to what to destroy with minimum collateral damage. :vampire:

Hopefully Josh may have a few more photos...

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Archival Note:*

There is a magisterial description by Michael (PanEuropean), concerning the test procedures to diagnose the failure of a power trunk lid to open and/or close, in this TOC thread at post #23:

How to replace the J605 Trunk Lid Control Module

Chris


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## bazzasick4acc (Aug 26, 2015)

Thank you chris they are realy helpfull!

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

Gents;

I've been following the trunk (boot) no-open problem through a couple of threads. Can someone confirm that there is no mechanical control available inside the trunk to open the latch, even under a housing? Seems odd, given that there is an emergency release handle in there. That's just a momentary contact electrical switch? 

Cheers,

Dave


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

Dave,

I can confirm that there is no purely mechanical trunk release. We went as far as removing the rear seat back on advice that there was known to be a mechanical release on the back frame in Bentley's. Definitely not so with the Phaeton. And yes, the interior emergency release is just a microswitch.

Dennis


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

madreg98 said:


> Dave,
> 
> I can confirm that there is no purely mechanical trunk release. We went as far as removing the rear seat back on advice that there was known to be a mechanical release on the back frame in Bentley's. Definitely not so with the Phaeton. And yes, the interior emergency release is just a microswitch.
> 
> Dennis


Thanks, Dennis.

Looking at the pile of parts in the photo above, it looks like there is a metal housing over the gear set that opens the latch claws. Since you have access through the ski hole in the seat panel, perhaps a 1/2 HP drill with a long extension and a hole saw on the end could cut through that housing, exposing the gears. Then, grabbing on and turning them might be possible.

Cheers,

Dave


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

For reference, here are some photos of some of the power lid lock parts.


*Power Lid Lock Actuator assembly, viewed as if from inside the trunk cavity*








image (c) eBay.de via VR6 Autoparts


*Lock barrel. Circle shows lever which rotates with key movement*








Image (c) allegro.pl via FH-Cobra


*Arrow shows Flap which is pressed by the lock barrel lever (Is there a microswitch there?)*
*Circle shows an interesting bung*








Image (c) eBay.co.uk via gtv_autoparts


*Bung removed, exposing actuator gear access*








image (c) eBay.de via VR6 Autoparts


It may be that the main gear which is exposed by removing that bung shown in the photo could be rotated to release the lock. But if the electric actuator runs through a worm drive that may not work.

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Also for reference, here is the non-power lid latch lock.

The key lock's barrel lever pushes down on the rod (vertical, with black plastic fitting) to rotate the same lever that is powered by the actuator solenoid and open the lock, even if the car's batteries are disconnected.

Chris


*Non Power Lid latch (late model)*








Image (c) allegro.pl via audivwGroup


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

"Remember the liner, Dave? You can't normally see the housing. You would have to be like a safe cracker and know exactly where to drill." -- Eric

Cutting or drilling through the liner as many times as necessary to zero in on the housing is not a big deal. Of course, a new liner or at least a patch will be required after the job is done. The point about the gears possibly being locked by a worm drive from the electric motor is well taken. But, a metal cutting hole saw can thoroughly destroy the gears as much as needed to access the latch claws. 

And yes, this is a junkyard safety issue to the extent their are any Phaetons sitting around with trunks open in junkyards. I'm guessing that's not the case.

Cheers,

Dave


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

*electric hood lock exposed for reference*

When I was doing my lock I took it apart, I hope the exposed picture will help



Darren


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Darren,

I can't see a microswitch or its wiring operated by the key lock cylinder.

However, I am interested in the action that may take place in the area I marked by a yellow box in your photo below.

The main latch metalwork at the bottom of the assembly appears to be rotated by the motor against the force of a spring on its pivot. I wonder if the key lock barrel lever is intended to press down in the direction of the yellow arrow and push a release pawl so that the lid latch springs open?

If that is what happens (when it's working properly) then maybe the bung referred to exposes a point at which a judicious prod with some tool from the direction of the rear seat will also actuate that pawl.

The bung and its hole are omitted from the part's drawing in the repair manual, which makes me wonder if there's a security reason for suppressing its possible intended function.

Chris


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

The action of pushing down the manual release separates the top latch gear and bottom gear driven by the motor by sending a graduated thickness fork between the two drives, a bit like a ball joint separator, the effort required to turn the key and then the sudden release of force on the gearing makes for an uncomfortable manual operation. All the micro switches in the unit tell the ecu the position of all moving parts, even the motor has an overload detection on it
Darren


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Gents;
> 
> I've been following the trunk (boot) no-open problem through a couple of threads. Can someone confirm that there is no mechanical control available inside the trunk to open the latch, even under a housing? Seems odd, given that there is an emergency release handle in there. That's just a momentary contact electrical switch?
> 
> ...


Thanks Darren, that's interesting. Your answer also answers Dave's question quoted above. The power trunk lid *does* have a mechanical release by using a key in the logo, but it doesn't always work.

Chris


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

imon_2nd said:


> "Remember the liner, Dave? You can't normally see the housing. You would have to be like a safe cracker and know exactly where to drill." -- Eric
> 
> Cutting or drilling through the liner as many times as necessary to zero in on the housing is not a big deal. Of course, a new liner or at least a patch will be required after the job is done. The point about the gears possibly being locked by a worm drive from the electric motor is well taken. But, a metal cutting hole saw can thoroughly destroy the gears as much as needed to access the latch claws.
> 
> ...


I just remembered how hard it is to get the trunk lid to latch if it doesn't work electrically. I don't think it's a safety issue, at least not for junkyard cars. I therefor deleted my prior post. 

Eric


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

No need to edit out that kind of thing! It was a legitimate question or comment, and subsequent thought and discussion has partially answered it in a sensible way.

I, for one, would not choose the trunk of a Phaeton to be bundled into, if the hoodlums gave me a choice... 

Maybe any 1960s car, provided I had a toothpick on me and the villains were classic car enthusiasts! 

Chris


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Paximus said:


> No need to edit out that kind of thing! It was a legitimate question or comment, and subsequent thought and discussion has partially answered it in a sensible way.
> 
> I, for one, would not choose the trunk of a Phaeton to be bundled into, if the hoodlums gave me a choice...
> 
> ...


I just had visions of the whole Audi 5000 unintended acceleration debacle. It was eventually found that it was operator error. Road & Track or Car & Driver tried to duplicate the "unintended acceleration" with a used Audi 5000 and couldn't do it. They found that the brakes would hold it even at full throttle. Eventually, Audi was exonerated but not before their reputation was sullied.

I realized that a child would probably not have the strength to slam the trunk lid hard enough to latch it. It takes me 2 or 3 slams to do it myself when my trunks don't want to work electrically. 

It was WAY easier to get out of a vintage trunk if you were the least bit mechanically inclined. On a side note, I was watching a show on Velocity about buying cars in junkyards. There was a late BMW 7 series (I think) with the trunk lid open and it had a closer switch in the same place as ours. 

I put the warning triangle in my 1st Phaeton, so the liner is not coming out if the trunk won't open. I am not sure if the emergency handle works. (I can hear it engage the micro switch, but no lights flash and I don't hear any electrical noises.) The badge doesn't either and the wires aren't switched. 



Eric


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## ahw614 (Jun 8, 2015)

Dangerrous said:


> The action of pushing down the manual release separates the top latch gear and bottom gear driven by the motor by sending a graduated thickness fork between the two drives, a bit like a ball joint separator, the effort required to turn the key and then the sudden release of force on the gearing makes for an uncomfortable manual operation. All the micro switches in the unit tell the ecu the position of all moving parts, even the motor has an overload detection on it
> Darren



I've managed to remove the badge (it is plastic so no need to cut through it - just break it off).
Cut through the plate which holds the barrel and removed the section which holds the barrel.
Does anyone have any idea what to do next?
Can the manual release be activated effectively through the hole?

Having no emergency manual release is clearly a bad design SNAFU by VW. Presumably they wanted the boot (trunk) lid to be secure in the event of a break in to the car. If only I didn;t have the four seat pack LWB with electric boot operation!

Adam


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## ahw614 (Jun 8, 2015)

I have just managed to find the invoice from the VW dealer when this happened before in 2009.

Some of you may find it interesting.

It happened that there was some corrosion on the bootlid and VW agreed to replace and repaint this under warranty - lucky!

This is the text from the invoice :

Labour £95

Attempt to obtain entry to boot via rear seats.
Attempt failed and eventually has to gain entry via cutting hole in boot lid.
Trace fault to boot lock lock mechanism and replaced and retested.
All now OK.

Lock £216.64

Total including VAT £358.39

Remember VW paid for the bootlid and the repainting!


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