# Driven: 2011 Audi A7 3.0T S-line



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

There’s a big risk in launching a new luxury car on the island of Sardinia, off Italy’s coast on the Mediterranean. Among the majestic cliffs, gorgeous blue waters, five-star hotels, and coastlines that serve as fully-booked yacht parking lots, it’d be pretty easy for the whole “look at our beautiful car” message to get lost. 

* Full Story *


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Nice write-up, George. Thanks. I'm a big fan of the A5 and A7 designs and I hope this "sportback" proliferation continues because I think the proportions on these models is exquisite: coupe-like proportions with sedan functionality is just what a downsizing economy needs (two cars for the price of one). 

Initially I wasn't a big fan of the new dash theme introduced with the new A8, but I have to say, it has grown on me sufficiently to say that the current A4/A5 dash now looks quite dated and cramped in comparison. 

One question - is the new A7 substantially wider than the B8 A4/A5? I ask because I get the impression that the new cabin design language on the A8/A7/upcoming A6 works well on wider models than it would work on narrower (?) models like the A4. 

From what it seems, Audi really has turned a corner as far as reliability. If they're capable of continuing to properly execute this great design language, the future looks great for the brand.


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## QUATTR0 (Dec 1, 2005)

Yes, the A7 is much wider than the A4... 4.3 in. to be exact. In fact it is almost as wide as the A8. 

A4: 71.9 in. 
A7: 75.2 in. 
A8: 76.7 in.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

I had to hand this launch off to Stu because of a conflict. I did see the car in person in Munich though and it's substantially bigger than the A4 and slightly bigger than the current A6.


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## darkop (Jun 25, 2009)

Awesome pics man! Are they official or done by some of you guys? Can we have them at 1280x1024? :sly:


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks for the report. I saw this car at a launch yesterday, and the design is very striking. It is longer, lower and sleeker looking in the flesh, so to speak. The version I saw was in ice silver with the hero 20" 10 spoke forged alloys. It looks quite different from the S Line version that Stu drove and, superbly along with Jim, photographed. 

The tornado line, at least in light colours, is a very powerful design element, particularly where it slopes down the front of the bonnet. The S Line front spoiler / diffuser treatment seems to diminish this, and gives the front of the car a look almost identical to our ibis white S5. Which I am sure encouraged Stu's comment about similarity in design. The RS6 style alloys aren't helping either - they look a bit clumsy on this delicate design to my eye. 

I think the S Line treatment may work better on a darker car, but for light colours, the original design is much sleeker. 

At the launch yesterday, the car was even lower than the S/Line in this article. It had air suspension, so I assume Audi had hacked in a display mode to drop the suspension way down to help the car look even more amazing. I asked my dealer whether I could have this suspension, but he informed me it may not be suitable for our road conditions, :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

darkop said:


> Awesome pics man! Are they official or done by some of you guys? Can we have them at 1280x1024? :sly:


 Some of the shots were shot by Jim Fets (all exterior shots in the article) who was featured as one of the best automotive photographers going by AutoWeek. Jim is a friend and also shoots for Audi of America. The interior shots and the shot that showed the open door was shot by Stu. 

I'm not sure on wallpaper. I'll inquire with Audi to see if it's cool that we do that.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

Glisse said:


> Thanks for the report. I saw this car at a launch yesterday, and the design is very striking. It is longer, lower and sleeker looking in the flesh, so to speak. The version I saw was in ice silver with the hero 20" 10 spoke forged alloys. It looks quite different from the S Line version that Stu drove and, superbly along with Jim, photographed.
> 
> The tornado line, at least in light colours, is a very powerful design element, particularly where it slopes down the front of the bonnet. The S Line front spoiler / diffuser treatment seems to diminish this, and gives the front of the car a look almost identical to our ibis white S5. Which I am sure encouraged Stu's comment about similarity in design. The RS6 style alloys aren't helping either - they look a bit clumsy on this delicate design to my eye.
> 
> ...


 I'd imagine having it lowered like that is more a question of how careful you are as a driver  . I go back and forth on which I prefer (S-line or not). My guess is that S-line won't be available with the layered wood treatment so I'd be hard-pressed to choose.


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## acsgp (Aug 27, 2008)

So, that your wife in the foreground, and you sailed over in your yacht and parked it as the backdrop? : 

Nice piece George. I still can't come to terms with the C pillar and the rear truncation from the side view. Is it better in the metal? It looks a bit disproportionate, but far better than the Panamera, CLS or 5 GT. Only the Rapide trumps it, IMO.


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

Probably ok to release high res pictures given that I see tons of 1600x1200 pictures on http://www.netcarshow.com/audi/2011-a7_sportback/. Not as nice though. 

Any word on A7 availability in the US? Early 2011? 

Also I thought a 3 rear seat option would be offered in the US but that could be just a rumor. Still not clear why they couldn't include 3rd seatbelt.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

I need to verify with Jim Fets to see if it's cool to release high-res. He's the photographer of most shots. 

As for US, I will ask. I'm not positive on that or the third seat.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

We had a couple of German's driving A7 test vehicles stop into our dealership the other day. This car is absolutely amazing in person. It has a lot of the same features as the new A8 and the interior is incredible.

There is no room in the hatch for a third seat.


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

Mr. Rabboto said:


> We had a couple of German's driving A7 test vehicles stop into our dealership the other day. This car is absolutely amazing in person. It has a lot of the same features as the new A8 and the interior is incredible.
> 
> There is no room in the hatch for a third seat.


So when can we expect to see A7 in US dealerships? 

AOA has requested for a 3rd seatbelt in the 2nd row but I haven't heard any news on that. There's certainly room for that. I hope we'll see that option still for US (just like VW CC has it now).
I'm going next month to Europe. Hopefully I can already see the model in person there.


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

My mistake, I was thinking third row, hahaha. Yes, there is room for a third seatbelt.

At this time, they are scheduled to arrive in about 9 mos. :thumbup:


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## 06TornadoGTIPete (Aug 15, 2006)

No moonroof?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

There will be an option for one.


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## 06TornadoGTIPete (Aug 15, 2006)

Travis Grundke said:


> There will be an option for one.


The moonroof is standard on all Audi models but the A3...

This A7 S-line will list from AT LEAST $55k. It SHOULD have a moonroof standard.


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

06TornadoGTIPete said:


> The moonroof is standard on all Audi models but the A3...
> 
> This A7 S-line will list from AT LEAST $55k. It SHOULD have a moonroof standard.


*This* A7 S line, which has options such as active cruise control, LED lights, Bang & Olufsen sound system, lists for US$97,000, excluding taxes, in Germany. Where it is made.

We all know Audi AG heavily subsidise the price of cars they sell to Audi of North America, but I think if you want it for around half price, asking for a free moon roof as well is a bit much


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## 06TornadoGTIPete (Aug 15, 2006)

Glisse said:


> *This* A7 S line, which has options such as active cruise control, LED lights, Bang & Olufsen sound system, lists for US$97,000, excluding taxes, in Germany. Where it is made.
> 
> We all know Audi AG heavily subsidise the price of cars they sell to Audi of North America, but I think if you want it for around half price, asking for a free moon roof as well is a bit much


Cars priced in Europe are NEVER a direct currency conversion. The A7 is to list from under $60,000. If you look at the pricing for Audis (and any other car) in Germany (and any other European country), you will find that the price in Euro is about 1:1 with the price in the USD, FOR CARS ONLY. For example, in Germany an S4 lists from 51,800 Euro and lists in the US for $45,900. That is actually LESS than the Euro amount. A direct currency conversion from Euro to USD would yield an S4 price of about $72,000. We know this is NOT the case.

Since you say this car, with a direct currency conversion, is $97,000 that would mean it is about 70,000 Euro. With the same Euro:USD ratio as the S4 example, this A7 S-line would be about $62,000 USD...

The USD is just SUPER weak right now and they (Audi) price their cars taking this into effect.:thumbup:

For future reference, when you see a CAR PRICE in Euro, just assume that that amount is close to what the USD amount will be. This is for cars ONLY. Direct currency conversion doesn't work in the case of cars.

If you see a car priced at 50,000 Euro, just assume it will be about $50,000 USD. MUCH more accurate than direct currency conversion yielding a price of $70,000.

You can do this with ANY Euro car and US Spec car (not GBP)


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

My comment was tongue in cheek.

Where I live, currency rates, watches, and cheese are well understood. Whilst Audi hedges currencies over the long term, the point is that Audi, BMW, and Mercedes have for several years sold cars in the US at or below manufacturing cost. 

The US has been the cheapest place in the world to buy cars from these 3 German manufacturers. They do this because it provides production efficiencies, it has nothing to do with exchange rates. The US, up until recently, has been the market with the highest volume potential. And so they are chasing volume, at the cost of very low margins.

But to do this, they have to make the cars in production batches. Which is why you do not get the option choices that are available in Europe - you have to take options in pre-determined packs.

This is going to change. In August, Audi sold 25,000 cars in China. They are projecting an annual sales rate of 300,000 cars by the end of 2011. By contrast, they sold 8,000 cars in the US in September, and have sold around 95,000 cars annually in the US by the end of this year. I expect over the next 5 years, they will progressively increase their relative pricing in the US. By relative, I mean to global margin points, not just within the US market.

Buy 'em while you can, moon roof or not


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## 06TornadoGTIPete (Aug 15, 2006)

Glisse said:


> My comment was tongue in cheek.
> 
> Where I live, currency rates, watches, and cheese are well understood. Whilst Audi hedges currencies over the long term, the point is that Audi, BMW, and Mercedes have for several years sold cars in the US at or below manufacturing cost.
> 
> ...


I think it also has to do with a cost of living difference as well. Yes, this car might cost $90,000 (at current exchange rates) in Germany but they also have a higher average household income as well.

It is not that they are cheaper in the states, they are the same, all things considered. It is relative.

And as far as Audi moving the US pricing up, that will ONLY depend on what BMW and Mercedes do with their pricing as well. Audi (or any business) will not increase its prices if its competitors remain the same.

We, as consumers, actually will control what happens to future pricing. Products are priced on supply and demand and actually, as demand drops, supply increases, and prices are brought down in an effort to increase demand thus decreasing supply. Inventory costs are VERY high and the company would rather lower the price a bit then have to sit on a bunch of US Spec cars that they cannot sell in China...

This is what happened with Saab most recently. Their cars were being sold at 25% off MSRP. The reason for this is that the demand wasn't there. Sure, they didn't lower MSRP but they just gave huge discounts at the sale. IF Audi sales are down AND they increase prices, this will happen.


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

German household income is really not higher than US but neither does the current weak dollar reflect comparable cost of living. There are couple of reasons for the price differences:



German prices include 19% sales tax
Most people in Europe own only 1 car and they do often spend bit more of their income on a nice car (warning generalization)
In Europe you can fully customize an Audi with huge amount of options and engine choices and entry price is often lot lower. On the other hand in the US Audi typically only offers 1-3 models which keeps costs and inventory down. The profit margins on more expensive configured models are obviously higher which are the models offered in the US
In Europe you almost always order a new car whereas in US you often buy the car from the lot. It's quite a different sales model (which is reason for previous factor)
 

In Europe


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

BTW I just came back from Germany and just missed to see the A7 in person. It would arrive there next week. I did rent the A5 sportback though and loved it. 
I do wonder how the A7 will compare and if it will look bulky compared to the A5 sportback. But the extra space is probably what US consumers wants. And as mentioned the larger profit margin on the A7 may be needed with the weak dollar. Which probably also explains why they don't offer the 2.8 FSI which is plenty fast imo but is 10K cheaper. 

Question long-term is with current engine downsizing if Audi can still afford to only offer the more expensive models compared to the competition and leave out some common US options like homelink and a moonroof.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

China is a hard market to site. The growth is off the charts and they have domestic production that helps keep the prices of the best sellers (A4L, A6L) in line with the Yen and market conditions. Domestic production is being considered at least for the upcoming A3 sedan but Audi is also trying to shift its business to improve its proportion of A6, A8 (and eventually A7) sales as that is a more profitable spectrum. 

The dollar's relative weakness against the Euro is a concern of course but another big factor is lease rates and that's why you see Audi placing such a big emphasis on resale values that entirely effect the lease rates.


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## 06TornadoGTIPete (Aug 15, 2006)

I just don't see any change in pricing unless ALL other manufacturers do the same. Audi has always had an edge on BMW and Mercedes as far as feature content and relative price. If they increase their price and leave the feature content the same, they will lose market share. With America being their largest market, they can't afford to do that.

This A7 will start somewhere around $55,000-$60,000 and top out near $75,000. The S7 will likely pick up from there at about $85,000 and top out under $100,000.

This car needs to compete with the Mercedes CLS and Porsche Panamera. So that is where we can start to look for ideas on pricing.

CLS550 - From $74,000 w/ 382hp 5.5L V8
CLS63 AMG - From $99,000 w/ 507hp 6.3L V8

Panamera - From $74,000 w/ 300hp 3.6L I6
Panamera S - From $90,000 w/ 400hp 4.8L V8
Panamera Turbo - From $135,000 w/ 500hp 4.8L TT V8

This is how I would get an idea of price.
Audi A6 4.2 starts at $59,000 and Mercedes E550 4-matic starts at $60,000.

So, because of this I would expect an Audi A7 4.2L to start at $74,000, the same as the CLS550. AND, we know that the A6 3.0T is $10,000 LESS than a 4.2L. What that means is that the 3.0T is 83.33% the cost of the 4.2L. So, if a V8 equipped A7 could be expected to start at $74,000 then one would expect the 3.0T to start at 83.33% of that, which is $62,000. That is the MAX that the A7 3.0T would start at. And an S7 will start UNDER $90,000.

I DO NOT look to Europe for ideas on pricing. I look at current pricing of like and comparable models and then educatedly guess where they would need to price the new model to be competitive. The A7 NEEDS to compete with the CLS and because of this, with a smaller engine, it will demand a smaller price. 

So, MARK MY WORDS. This is how I see the A7 pricing going. The volume leader of course being the 3.0T Premium Plus with a few add-ons to be make them, on average, about $65,000.

A7 3.0T Quattro Premium - $59,550
A7 3.0T Quattro - Premium Plus - $62,550
A7 3.0T Quattro - Prestige - $65,550 (Topping out around $72,000)

A7 4.2L Quattro - Premium Plus - $68,550
A7 4.2L Quattro - Prestige - $72,550 (Topping out around $80,000)

S7 ? Quattro - Premium Plus - $84,550
S7 ? Quattro - Presitge - $89,550 (Topping out around $95,000)


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## darkop (Jun 25, 2009)

06TornadoGTIPete said:


> I just don't see any change in pricing unless ALL other manufacturers do the same. Audi has always had an edge on BMW and Mercedes as far as feature content and relative price. If they increase their price and leave the feature content the same, they will lose market share. With America being their largest market, they can't afford to do that.
> 
> This A7 will start somewhere around $55,000-$60,000 and top out near $75,000. The S7 will likely pick up from there at about $85,000 and top out under $100,000.
> 
> ...


There will not be A7 4.2. That engine becomes extinct...


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

darkop said:


> There will not be A7 4.2. That engine becomes extinct...


Quite right. I keep hoping you will stir up some kind of reponse on RS6 for more information on the 4.0 TFSI timing and versions :laugh: 

It is hard to imagine this will be restricted to the S7 only. I continue to be told by our distributor that no V8s until mid next year, and S7 not until September. I have assumed from this that there will be a base spec 4.0 TFSI, probably around 400PS, a higher output version in the S7, and also the 4.2 TDI. Which is the engine I would have liked. I, unfortunately, cannot wait.

To Lucien:
The US$97,000 German market cost of the A7 S line that the Fourtitude team drove in Sardinia did not include the 19% German tax. I agree with all your other points. I would also add that in many European countries, mandatory vehicle inspections are required after 4 or 5 years, which can lead to expensive repair work. And improved fuel efficiency plays a huge role in changing vehicles.

Also, the A7 does not look bulky compared to the A5 Sportback, it is the other way around. When you see one in the flesh, you will be surprised by how long, low and sleek it is. By the way, the 2.8 FSI is a benefit in a number of markets which place very high taxes on engine capacity. A point a lot of reviewers seem ignorant of.

To George:
The US dollar is actually buying more of a Euro now than in October last year. The Euro is in trouble too 




> 06TornadoGTIPete
> I just don't see any change in pricing unless ALL other manufacturers do the same. Audi has always had an edge on BMW and Mercedes as far as feature content and relative price. If they increase their price and leave the feature content the same, they will lose market share. With America being their largest market, they can't afford to do that...



The US market is not Audi's largest, it ranks behind Germany, rest of Europe, and China - in that order. The US represents 8% of their sales. By comparison, Germany represents 24%.

So Audi has been, to your point, discounting in the US via lower pricing and / or increased equipment levels? Not desirable for a premium brand, and perhaps why Audi has a low market share in the US. But you misinterpreted my comments - I meant all German manufacturers are selling their products at very low margins in the US compared to everywhere else in the world. The reason to do so is diminishing.

Further to the above point, the new Mercedes CLS, not the old one you use in your pricing model, has already been released here. On an equivalent spec basis, it sells for the same price as the A7. But here, Audi has almost double Mercedes' share.

And yes, I do think ALL manufacturers will lift their pricing of cars in the US over the next 5 years. They have already started - look how option lists have changed over the last 3 years. You now have to spend at least 20% of the base price of the car to get a reasonable vehicle. That's why I don't think you are going to get a free moonroof.


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

How is this $97K calculated? That would be about 70K Euro's and the 3.0 TDI starts at 50K Euro's. 
I tried the German online configurator and adding 20K in options is as fully loaded as it gets. I doubt that's typical configuration but in a single package configuration it would be way less.

That said $60K is already quite a lot of money and since quattro and leather is standard why not basic options like moonroof or homelink? Well let's wait and see...

I got 30-50mpg with the A5 sportback 2.0 TDI. The A7 sportback has lot lower mpg (not just because it's not diesel) and is much more expensive. I still hope we see the A5 sportback but maybe I change my mind when I see the A7 in person.


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## darkop (Jun 25, 2009)

Glisse said:


> Quite right. I keep hoping you will stir up some kind of reponse on RS6 for more information on the 4.0 TFSI timing and versions :laugh:
> 
> It is hard to imagine this will be restricted to the S7 only. I continue to be told by our distributor that no V8s until mid next year, and S7 not until September. I have assumed from this that there will be a base spec 4.0 TFSI, probably around 400PS, a higher output version in the S7, and also the 4.2 TDI. Which is the engine I would have liked. I, unfortunately, cannot wait.
> 
> [/LIST]


 
I am quite positive there will not be regular a7 with V8 TFSI (taken from various sources and learning Audi's logic for some time). It is going to be only in S7 and later in RS7 with higher output (circa 560ps). Audi is getting away from offering similar hp rating which doesn't bring significant gain in performance. Hence from now on expect to see around and at least 100PS difference between engine choices above 300PS barrier.
From that you can assume they will ditch the 4.2l v8 from A8 and introduce new motor for 2012MY (4.0 TFSI with lower tuning than S7 and around 420PS). New S7 will have 450PS according to the latest intel, S8 - 500PS or little bit more...
These are still only speculations though, but very reliable, as they (AUDI) can change the rating very easily and fast with turbo technology as it doesn't require much more than a change in pressure on a turbine. Seems like they have been very reluctant with this engine as they probably wanted to see what the competition offers, avoiding being on the back foot in everlasting HP war...
:beer:


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

Lucien said:


> How is this $97K calculated? That would be about 70K Euro's and the 3.0 TDI starts at 50K Euro's.
> I tried the German online configurator and adding 20K in options is as fully loaded as it gets. I doubt that's typical configuration but in a single package configuration it would be way less...


The car is a 3.0 TFSI. List is €58,600 for the base car only. And in Germany, and most European markets, base really does mean base. Leather is an extra, as is everything. The car has these options: S line exterior 1460, S line sport pack 2600, 20" PRC alloys 600, alcantara seats 1400, paddle shift on steering wheel 145, leather pack 650, electric steering wheel tilt/shift 400, electric/memory seats 970, LED headlights 1800, rear sunshade 130, ext. mirrors with memory 490, sport differential 1050, assistance pack with pre-sense (note radar sensors in front fog lamp housing) 2760, MMI Plus with MMI touch 3500, Bang & Olufsen sound system 6000, front and rear heated seats 720, 4 zone climate control 650, rear camera 450. You can see all of these options on the car by looking at the photo gallery details except the sports differential. I know from reviews of this white S line 3.0 TFS that it had the sports diff fitted.

Total of the car is Euro 85,000. Remove German VAT of 19%, price ex Tax is Euro 71,400. Exchange rate is 1.4USD to Euro, which makes it $100,000 exactly. I underestimated the cost...

And this does not include a moon roof - that would be another Euro 1130 :laugh:

The Euro 50,000 3.0 TDI you mentioned is the low power version, which has not been released yet, and will not come to the US anyway. The normal, 500Nm, 3.0 TDI is close to the TFSI in price. 

By the way, I would be very happy to pay this price of $100,000. The A7 I am ordering costs much more 

I'm not quite sure of your point on fuel consumption. I have an S5 cabriolet, with the 3.0 TFSI engine, which is averaging around 16mpg. I also have an A6 quattro with the 3.0 TDI which averages 30mpg. Apparently the fuel map for the 3.0 TFSI in the A7 is much less aggressive than in the S5, so the fuel consumption is apparently much better.

The full power version of the 3.0 TDI is much, much quicker than the 2.0 TDI, and much more refined, too. But of course, it will use more fuel than the smaller engine. However, the new, low power version of the 3.0 TDI achieves 5L/100km. I think that converts to around 47 miles per US gallon. And I think less strange to drive around a big car like the A7 with a 6 cylinder engine than a 4.


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

darkop said:


> I am quite positive there will not be regular a7 with V8 TFSI (taken from various sources and learning Audi's logic for some time). It is going to be only in S7 and later in RS7 with higher output (circa 560ps). Audi is getting away from offering similar hp rating which doesn't bring significant gain in performance. Hence from now on expect to see around and at least 100PS difference between engine choices above 300PS barrier.
> From that you can assume they will ditch the 4.2l v8 from A8 and introduce new motor for 2012MY (4.0 TFSI with lower tuning than S7 and around 420PS). New S7 will have 450PS according to the latest intel, S8 - 500PS or little bit more...
> These are still only speculations though, but very reliable, as they (AUDI) can change the rating very easily and fast with turbo technology as it doesn't require much more than a change in pressure on a turbine. Seems like they have been very reluctant with this engine as they probably wanted to see what the competition offers, avoiding being on the back foot in everlasting HP war...
> :beer:


For Europe, your crystal ball seems right about a V8 in the S7 only. Very few Europeans will buy a V8 engine because of the fuel consumption and high taxes on engine size / power ouput (no one taxes torque, only horsepower  ), and then only for a sports car experience. 

But it will be brave of Audi to launch the normal A7 in the US without a V8 option, as not everyone will want sport seats / sports suspension in a car like this. Especially as Mercedes have their new V8 in the just released CLS (lower powered, I see, than the 435PS version), and BMW already has theirs in the 5GT, and presumably in the new 6 series 4 door which is 2 years away.

But it may be that the new generations of the S series are postioned more as the top tier of the normal range, with luxury option availability, rather than just sports focussed. And they will extend the RS range? 

And of course the other issue with forced induction power levels is how to stop after market tuners from doing the same thing at a quarter of the cost :sly:


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## QUATTR0 (Dec 1, 2005)

06TornadoGTIPete said:


> With America being their largest market, they can't afford to do that.


 Not by a long shot... 

2010 Sales through September 
1. China 174,907 
2. Germany 160,947 
3. UK 82,875 
4. US 73,590 
5. Italy 45,256 
6. France 39,366 
7. Spain 32,336


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## 06TornadoGTIPete (Aug 15, 2006)

ok. But Audi will only alter their pricing if BMW and Mercedes do. If those 2 stay, Audi will have no choice but to stay as well.


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## McQueen (Oct 6, 2010)

Glisse said:


> . That's why I don't think you are going to get a free moonroof.
> 
> [/LIST]


 Everything leading up to this point may or may not be correct, but I've seen specs and you're getting a free moonroof. There are multiple variants (8 I believe) and all have a moonroof. You will also get a powered tailgate standard.

I think the loaded car will come in somewhere north of $16k of options over the base vehicle. And guessing at the A7 starting midway between the A6 and A8, I have an educated guess that it starts around $59k and tops out around $76k.

The fact that the US supercharged 3.0 V6 is not paired with the S-tronic gearbox but with a 8 speed tiptronic is a downer. And the fact that they have the engine tuned to a modest 300 hp, most likely due to fleet fuel economy concerns, is another tough one to swallow. The wait for any S7 variant is going to be a buzz kill. And finally, In looking at the color combinations of the 8 variants, nowhere do I see the somewhat cool nautically themed wood inlays that were featured in many of the press clippings. And (in looking through the color choices for the US) is it me or is the color name "Impala Beige" a poor choice. All I can think is "I dont remember Chevy Impala's coming in Beige".


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

McQueen said:


> ...
> 
> The fact that the US supercharged 3.0 V6 is not paired with the S-tronic gearbox but with a 8 speed tiptronic is a downer. And the fact that they have the engine tuned to a modest 300 hp, most likely due to fleet fuel economy concerns, is another tough one to swallow. The wait for any S7 variant is going to be a buzz kill. And finally, In looking at the color combinations of the 8 variants, nowhere do I see the somewhat cool nautically themed wood inlays that were featured in many of the press clippings. And (in looking through the color choices for the US) is it me or is the color name "Impala Beige" a poor choice. All I can think is "I dont remember Chevy Impala's coming in Beige".


 Yes, funny that Audi of America believes its customers want automatics rather than sequential gearboxes, as this seems to be applying across the board. It is the exact opposite here in Europe. Although that new ZF 8 speed is a good transmission. 

I have been told this latest tune of the 3.0 TFSI not only improves economy, but is also smoother than earlier versions. But I did not like having another 10% power disappearing through the supercharger's by-pass valve. Still, torque has been kept the same as the 333PS version, which does suggest they have been working on the engine. 

IIRC, Audi AG's director in charge of product development, Michael Dick, indicated at the launch there were technical difficulties getting the layered oak trim into production. It isn't available anywhere, and no indication of when it might appear. It was funny reading some of those reviews from Sardinia which waxed lyrical about a hand rubbed finish that appeared to have been applied by craftsmen. Because that is exactly how that finish was applied. Will be interesting to see if they actually follow through with it, and whether a premium is supplied. Of course, in the US you will possibly get it for free... 

Beige was not figuring highly in my colour choices, regardless of the description. But I suspect the German marketing staff who came up with the name, as Impala is used in the original German too, were dreaming of the veld (ha ha) rather than Detroit.


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## McQueen (Oct 6, 2010)

Glisse said:


> Yes, funny that Audi of America believes its customers want automatics rather than sequential gearboxes, as this seems to be applying across the board. It is the exact opposite here in Europe. Although that new ZF 8 speed is a good transmission.


 I thought the transmission was tiptronic due to better fuel economy than the S-tronic. I think a lot of the options we get here are meant to limit gas consumption. I have my theory that the 'Drive Select' package is designed so that dynamic modes are not considered when the car is reviewed for EPA gas mileage. (That's my theory why it defaults to auto each time you get in the car.) 



> I have been told this latest tune of the 3.0 TFSI not only improves economy, but is also smoother than earlier versions. But I did not like having another 10% power disappearing through the supercharger's by-pass valve. Still, torque has been kept the same as the 333PS version, which does suggest they have been working on the engine.


 It will also be interesting what the factory approved aftermarket modders (Stasis, AWE, etc.) will squeeze out of the engine. 



> IIRC, Audi AG's director in charge of product development, Michael Dick, indicated at the launch there were technical difficulties getting the layered oak trim into production. It isn't available anywhere, and no indication of when it might appear. It was funny reading some of those reviews from Sardinia which waxed lyrical about a hand rubbed finish that appeared to have been applied by craftsmen. Because that is exactly how that finish was applied. Will be interesting to see if they actually follow through with it, and whether a premium is supplied. Of course, in the US you will possibly get it for free...


 In looking at our other choices, it seems pretty limiting, no carbon atlas, etc. Thats pretty funny about the Riva-esque nautical looking inlays. Kind of like concept cars that look really impressive but somehow end up totally generic in the production.


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

McQueen said:


> I thought the transmission was tiptronic due to better fuel economy than the S-tronic. I think a lot of the options we get here are meant to limit gas consumption. I have my theory that the 'Drive Select' package is designed so that dynamic modes are not considered when the car is reviewed for EPA gas mileage. (That's my theory why it defaults to auto each time you get in the car.)


 No, I have never seen anything to suggest that the tiptronic has better fuel efficiency than the S tronic. And Europe has always been far more sensitive to fuel consumption than the US. The diesel engine in the A7 will massively outsell the petrol engine here, as it has much lower consumption, and more torque. 

You are absolutely right about Drive Select programs. Dynamic is how engineers want the car to drive, whilst Comfort provides the fuel consumption and emission figures. I find our S5 cab undrivable in Comfort, and often don't use Auto because I don't like the way it cycles between Comfort and Dynamic. As a result of driving in Dynamic, the consumption is almost 50% higher than rated. My wife, whose car it is, is happy to drive it in Auto. One point to note is that the A7, like the A8, has the selection for Drive Select made via the MMI screen, rather than dedicated buttons on the dash. I really dislike this change. 



> It will also be interesting what the factory approved aftermarket modders (Stasis, AWE, etc.) will squeeze out of the engine.


 The perspective on tuners differs from one side of the Atlantic to the other. The factory, ie Audi AG, does not approve any tuner. They do have a close relationship with Abt, who prepare most of Audi Sports leading DTM race cars. In my country, Abt is a dealer fitment, with no impact on warranty. But that is done via the local distributor, rather than the factory. And all the major Audi tuners here, who are Abt, MTM, and Sportec, use a piggyback into the CAN-bus system. The cost of this system is high. I see some of the US tuners are reprogramming the M-CAN e-prom directly, which would be a big no-no from Audi's perspective. Perhaps the Stasis process of warranty is similar to Abt here, but I would want to be assured this was in conjunction with the distributor distributor, ie AofA, rather than a dealer only arrangement. Such things are personal decisions of course. 

As all the big 3 German manufacturers move to forced induction engines, this whole tuner issue becomes more significant. In the case of Audi, the 3.0 TFSI engine is now in the A4, A5, A6, A7, A8, Q5 and Q7 lines. The new 4.0 TFSI will also be released in a whole variety of tunes: from standard power, to higher power in S vehicles, to highest power in RS vehicles. The manufacturers will have to do more than crudely limit boost to differentiate these tunes. BMW have already moved their 3 litre turbocharged engine to single turbochargers than twin, which will make it harder to tune without affecting drivability, ie creating lag. And on the earlier versions, BMW had engineered the cooling system to just cope with the stock output. Audi seem to engineer to the maximum potential, whereas BMW sail closer to the wind. The limitation on the 3.0 TFSI would be the S tronic in its current iteration, the ZF 8 speed can handle more power and torque. 

There is also a rumour, IIRC, that within 2 or 3 years engines will be on-line to the factory  

Still, assuming the transmission and cooling system will not complain too much, it is easy to keep the by-pass valve closed on the supercharger to make full power, which is around 410PS using Audi measurements. Audi do not quote where they measure power, and it appears from dyno testing that it is now somewhere after the crank. 




> In looking at our other choices, it seems pretty limiting, no carbon atlas, etc. Thats pretty funny about the Riva-esque nautical looking inlays. Kind of like concept cars that look really impressive but somehow end up totally generic in the production.


 The S line is supposed to have piano black as an option, but that is not available yet either. Much of this is because the car is brand new, and production is only just starting. By the time the car is released in the US, I suspect many of these options will be available. They are probably saving carbon for the S7. The A7 will have a life of 5 to 7 years, so they will not release everything at once, unfortunately.


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## QUATTR0 (Dec 1, 2005)

McQueen said:


> I thought the transmission was tiptronic due to better fuel economy than the S-tronic.


 Sadly it was chosen over the S tronic due to Americans complaining about shift quality in the sequential boxes in JD Power surverys. The slushbox may be "smoother" but there is a definite lag compared to the S tronic. Fuel economy is certainly no better due to torque converter losses although the new 8-speed has 2-3 mpg better EPA highway ratings than the 6-speed.


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

QUATTR0 said:


> Not by a long shot...
> 
> 2010 Sales through September
> 1. China 174,907
> ...


 True but the potential for Audi is huge exceeding European market. 
BMW, Mercedes, Acura and Lexus have higher sales. So they can't ignore US specific market demands.


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## darkop (Jun 25, 2009)

Glisse said:


> No, I have never seen anything to suggest that the tiptronic has better fuel efficiency than the S tronic. And Europe has always been far more sensitive to fuel consumption than the US. The diesel engine in the A7 will massively outsell the petrol engine here, as it has much lower consumption, and more torque.
> 
> You are absolutely right about Drive Select programs. Dynamic is how engineers want the car to drive, whilst Comfort provides the fuel consumption and emission figures. I find our S5 cab undrivable in Comfort, and often don't use Auto because I don't like the way it cycles between Comfort and Dynamic. As a result of driving in Dynamic, the consumption is almost 50% higher than rated. My wife, whose car it is, is happy to drive it in Auto. *One point to note is that the A7, like the A8, has the selection for Drive Select made via the MMI screen, rather than dedicated buttons on the dash. I really dislike this change.*
> .


 Is this really true?! Never have thought about it... You are right! No buttons... So each time you want to switch to another mode you have to go inside the menu?!! If you wish to suddenly race someone - forget it! lol :banghead:


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## QUATTR0 (Dec 1, 2005)

darkop said:


> Is this really true?! Never have thought about it... You are right! No buttons... So each time you want to switch to another mode you have to go inside the menu?!! If you wish to suddenly race someone - forget it! lol :banghead:


 Maybe that's the whole point, not many people are going to be racing A7 and A8s! But it was probably done to remove buttons from the dash for a cleaner appearance.


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

QUATTR0 said:


> Maybe that's the whole point, not many people are going to be racing A7 and A8s! But it was probably done to remove buttons from the dash for a cleaner appearance.


 Actually, what I want is a button on the steering wheel which would cycle between Auto and Individual, then I would be happy. I still have to take my eyes of the road to use the dash buttons. 

And I use the dash buttons a lot, as our S5 Cab still has the original S tronic map, so doesn't use 7th gear in Dynamic mode. Which means when I want to just cruise on the autoroute, I have to switch. This is even more of a hassle using the MMI ssystem. I struggled a few times when driving the A8 to even find the right screen :facepalm:


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

Just read in a German magazine that in an interview Audi said that the A7 won't be offered with V8. But they have the option to offer it later on with a 4 cylinder base engine (probably Europe only).

They also say S-tronic would be option for A7 Quattro. For some reason they say multi-tronic for FWD (but I don't think that's available for A7).


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## Mr. Rabboto (Oct 6, 1999)

We received our first brochures yesterday. I think this car is going to do really well for Audi.


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

Lucien said:


> Just read in a German magazine that in an interview Audi said that the A7 won't be offered with V8. But they have the option to offer it later on with a 4 cylinder base engine (probably Europe only).
> 
> They also say S-tronic would be option for A7 Quattro. For some reason they say multi-tronic for FWD (but I don't think that's available for A7).


There is some speculation that the V8 will only be available in an S7 configuration. Which magazine did you read? It may be they were specifically discussing the European market, where V8s are about as popular as politicians.

FWD A7s with multitronic are available, and in fact were at the Sardinian media drive program. These are not coming to the US. No bad thing, as to me an Audi without Quattro is not an Audi - it's a Volkswagen 

In Europe, S-tronic is not an option with Quattro, it is the only choice.


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

Glisse said:


> There is some speculation that the V8 will only be available in an S7 configuration. Which magazine did you read? It may be they were specifically discussing the European market, where V8s are about as popular as politicians.
> 
> FWD A7s with multitronic are available, and in fact were at the Sardinian media drive program. These are not coming to the US. No bad thing, as to me an Audi without Quattro is not an Audi - it's a Volkswagen
> 
> In Europe, S-tronic is not an option with Quattro, it is the only choice.


This was Autonews magazine (bought this when I was in Germany, issue 9-10). Audi doesn't offer any exclusive engines for US and usually gets a subset of choices from Europe. Unlikely they'd just have a V8 for US. Engine downsizing is also big in US especially for CAFE 2016.

I'd be actually prefer if Audi offered Audi models in US with smaller engines. The 2.8 TFSI is 10K less and still plenty fast. The A5 sportback 2.0 TDI I rented was plenty fast as well and had excellent mileage.


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## McQueen (Oct 6, 2010)

Lucien said:


> This was Autonews magazine (bought this when I was in Germany, issue 9-10). Audi doesn't offer any exclusive engines for US and usually gets a subset of choices from Europe. Unlikely they'd just have a V8 for US. Engine downsizing is also big in US especially for CAFE 2016.
> 
> I'd be actually prefer if Audi offered Audi models in US with smaller engines. The 2.8 TFSI is 10K less and still plenty fast. The A5 sportback 2.0 TDI I rented was plenty fast as well and had excellent mileage.


Not me..

I love my S5, but is shortly heading out of warranty and have been contemplating my next car. The technology and the newness of the A7 is really appealing and there are many times I'd use the extra room in the back, although Im not sure its as good looking as the S5. I also will miss the carbon inlays, and 354 HP engine.. I don't necessarilly want a new S5 - which I'm not sure would be any better than my current car.. but want more of a performance car than the A7 will be with the Supercharged Six and 8 speed tranny.

I guess I'm either looking at a S7, or something I've yet to stumble upon, but then I'm probably a year awayfrom being available.


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

Lucien said:


> This was Autonews magazine (bought this when I was in Germany, issue 9-10). Audi doesn't offer any exclusive engines for US and usually gets a subset of choices from Europe. Unlikely they'd just have a V8 for US. Engine downsizing is also big in US especially for CAFE 2016.
> 
> I'd be actually prefer if Audi offered Audi models in US with smaller engines. The 2.8 TFSI is 10K less and still plenty fast. The A5 sportback 2.0 TDI I rented was plenty fast as well and had excellent mileage.


The new low output version of the 3 litre TDI promises better mileage than the 2.0 TDI you drove, and will be much smoother. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to come to the US anytime soon.

Whilst the 2.8 litre petrol engine is a good price, fuel consumption is almost identical to the supercharged engine, which is much more powerful. So the 2.8 is not particularly efficient.


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## Glisse (Sep 14, 2010)

McQueen said:


> Not me..
> 
> I love my S5, but is shortly heading out of warranty and have been contemplating my next car. The technology and the newness of the A7 is really appealing and there are many times I'd use the extra room in the back, although Im not sure its as good looking as the S5. I also will miss the carbon inlays, and 354 HP engine.. I don't necessarilly want a new S5 - which I'm not sure would be any better than my current car.. but want more of a performance car than the A7 will be with the Supercharged Six and 8 speed tranny.
> 
> I guess I'm either looking at a S7, or something I've yet to stumble upon, but then I'm probably a year awayfrom being available.


Your timing sounds perfect for the S7! I suspect the new 4.0 TFSI will be great. The S5 is a good looking car, so is the A7 - but they are certainly more different in the flesh than they look in photos. So this is very subjective. But the new interior in the A7 is a big step up from the S5 - except for Drive Select...


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## Lucien (Jan 23, 2008)

Glisse said:


> The new low output version of the 3 litre TDI promises better mileage than the 2.0 TDI you drove, and will be much smoother. Unfortunately, it is unlikely to come to the US anytime soon.
> 
> Whilst the 2.8 litre petrol engine is a good price, fuel consumption is almost identical to the supercharged engine, which is much more powerful. So the 2.8 is not particularly efficient.


Sure if money is no object but $10K is a lot of money. I just don't see it as a sports car with the long wheelbase and for me 8.3 sec to 100kmh would be fast enough.

I do wonder what base price will be for US...


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