# 2.0turbo running really rich



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

my 2.0 turbo car is running really rich for some reason.... the wideband stays at 10.0 on its way to boost and in boost. but other wise its idels normal and the wideband is a 14 -13 ish. i even did presure testes to see if i had a boost leak and i did fixed them all up and still running rich. my set up is a 2.0 motor 9.1 CR with a kientic turbo kit stage 3 so its got the front mount, c2 440 software, and vr maf and such... i dont get it iv tried everything i could think of so if someone has any good ideas lend a hand please


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

anyone?


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## lucas13dourado (Oct 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

has the car EVER ran well?
what FPR are you running? (C2 calls for 3bar)


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (lucas13dourado)*

yes it a 3 bar...... i kinda just put a motor together and threw a turbo kit on it..so as long as iv owned its run always run rich in boost


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## lucas13dourado (Oct 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

do you have any exhaust leaks?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (lucas13dourado)*

as far as i know my downpipe is sealed at the turbo and it boosts alright so my WG is working so even if i had a leak after the wideband 02 it wouldnt do anything


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## taydog (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

Hmm what about a bad injector? You could have one stuck open, also can you be sure your wideband is working properly? Maybe you could test it with someone elses.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (taydog)*

yea i got another wideband just makeing sure i rule out everything else before i got that route.. but i am running rich u can smell it...now that u said that i should check the injectors to see if one it stuck open or something like that


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_but other wise its idels normal and the wideband is a 14 -13 ish. 

this is rich. at idle and cruising it should be 14.7 to low 15s
use a vag-com to verify the TPS, 02 sensor, and Maf sensor. it's probably one of those three.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (TBT-Syncro)*

my 02 short term is -2.3 -2.3
my long term is -1.6
and my maf reads 2.08-2.15 g/s 
and my 02 regualtion is -2.3- .23
all at idle


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

yea its sits bout 14-15 ish as well once the car is fully warmed up and siting at street lights and such.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

bump


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

up


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

help


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

bump it up


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

morning bump


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

to the top


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

no one? ok well what controls my fuel just my 02 and my maf?... and what does a c2 chip control? someone anyone this is drving me crazy


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## taydog (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

have you tried any of the things people suggested? Like how about testing your o2 sensor to see if it works properly. Maybe you could try cleaning me MAF with MAF cleaning spray you could get, it helps to post up your attempted fixes when asking for help instead of just bumping the thread.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (taydog)*

iv tried it all even changed the gauge...just llookin for any ideas at this point


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (yellowstonediesel)*

this is problem with a gas engine


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

could my pcv being vented to the air not routed back in the car casue a running rich problem?


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_could my pcv being vented to the air not routed back in the car casue a running rich problem? 

no


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## taydog (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (sp_golf)*

are you running a blow off valve or diverter? you could have it in the wrong place in respect to the MAF, are you running a blow thru MAF?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (taydog)*

i am useing a forge spliter valve so it a DV with a blow off and yes it after the maf and goes in my intercooler pipe just before my TB


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

well i got no boost leaks for thats not the problem.... i bought a brand new o2 sensor so the sensor its self is not the problem. im gonna try and swap around maf to see if that makes a diffrence, .. i disconnted the maf and the car pretty much ran like ass so i figured it was good but i might as well just try and change it and see what that does... any other ideas? 


_Modified by steven12345 at 4:47 PM 3-11-2010_


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_i am useing a forge spliter valve so it a DV with a blow off and yes it after the maf and goes in my intercooler pipe just before my TB 


Mine was spiking rich and running rich when my DV blew up.Check that.They come apart and are serviceable


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Daskoupe)*

maybe ill try to locate my stock DV/basic DV and see if that works. 
the thing i dont get is my wideband says i am running rich but i am not geting any check engine lights saying my 02 sensor is reading anything to rich... i dont get this


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

also i never turned my spiliter valve to what ever seting it has to be at could that be a casue as welll casue it holds boost which what i thought is soppose to just do


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

so i swaped in a 1.8t DV... and still nothing .. i did unplug my maf to see what happens it drives in limp mode.. and puters and such. and once i plug it back in all is normal so i am guessing it is working porperly. So now i have no leaks at all.... but i run rich on my way to boost well also i think my alternator isint charging as well would that cause a werid idle? 
_Modified by steven12345 at 10:05 PM 3-15-2010_


_Modified by steven12345 at 10:46 PM 3-15-2010_


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

bump


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

nite bump


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## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

I had a similar problem on my 97 2.0T it turned out to be a injector wire #3 it did not look frayed but once i started driving it would randomly short out and dump excess fuel into the motor and would not throw a CEL or anything.. I would pull the upper manifold off and check the injector harness and make sure all your injectors are spraying good.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (1098lover)*

well what should i be looking for on the harness casue i know i can test the connector to see if it pulses to see if its geting a signal. should i be looking for a cut wire or something of that sort. like do i just pull the rail with the injectors and just crank the car to see if it sparys or something


_Modified by steven12345 at 6:29 AM 3-16-2010_


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## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

well I would start by unplugging one injector at a time to see if one makes a bigger difference than another then i would check the wires for pinch's and frayed spot's. I would also check the injectors. I unbolted the fuel rail and had a buddy crank the car over with no coil wire connected and lifted it out of the manifold just enough to see the spray pattern.. (Im sure there's a safer way of doing this)....
Also I assume your running green top #42 injectors? 
some other brand injectors don't work so well on the C2 tune.


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## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

oh also what plugs are you running and whats the gap?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (1098lover)*

well ill try that to see what happens, yes i am running 440's bosch's


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (1098lover)*

now while its cranking is it a steady stream or does it like spit


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## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

1/4 and 2/3 paired to fire together. it is a batch fire system they spray a nice pattern.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (1098lover)*

and what did it look like when it wasent spraying right?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

bump it up for any other ideas as well after i try this fuel injector test


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## 96VDubbin (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: (steven12345)*

any close pics of ur engine bay? I have a abaT which was dumping fuel there was exhaust leak b4 the o2, the throttle body had a vac leak also not sure how it looks on ur car tho. How new is the chip?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (96VDubbin)*

ill try and get some pictures... i dont think i have an exhasut leak i dont feel or hear any sounds coming outa anything i have no boost leaks and the chip is brand brand new


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## 96VDubbin (Mar 22, 2003)

if they're small you may not check around on ur exhaust an see if you see any black spots where exhaust could be leaking


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (96VDubbin)*

well i found and got rid of a small exhaust leak that was coming from my wastegate dump off.. so i went for a ride still the same problem but it does run smother


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## 96VDubbin (Mar 22, 2003)

hows ur firing? plugs wires etc in good working condition?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (96VDubbin)*

yea firing is all good. plug wires and such all new


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

up


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## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

still waitng for you to do a injector test and for pic's


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## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

*Re: (1098lover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1098lover* »_oh also what plugs are you running and whats the gap?

plus you never responed to this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (1098lover)*

.22 or .25


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## 96VDubbin (Mar 22, 2003)

what plugs tho?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (96VDubbin)*

bkrz8 something or other's ngk's


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (1098lover)*

bump


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

up


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

nite bump


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_my 2.0 turbo car is running really rich for some reason.... the wideband stays at 10.0 on its way to boost and in boost. but other wise its idels normal and the wideband is a 14 -13 ish. i even did presure testes to see if i had a boost leak and i did fixed them all up and still running rich. my set up is a 2.0 motor 9.1 CR with a kientic turbo kit stage 3 so its got the front mount, c2 440 software, and vr maf and such... i dont get it iv tried everything i could think of so if someone has any good ideas lend a hand please

yes it a 3 bar...... i kinda just put a motor together and threw a turbo kit on it..so as long as iv owned its run always run rich in boost
Ok. Hare's my $.02. You said that the car has always run rich since you put it together. The maf/fuel/02 readings you posted show good fuel trim at idle and cruise. Fuel trims are not calculated at wot. There are a couple possibilities. 
A: you are using the incorrect maf housing. C2 engineers their software to work with specific injectors and CALCULATED MAF sizing. They do this to effectively "scale" the maf readings for the added efficiency of the turbo. Therefore just any larger maf housing will NOT work properly.
B: you could possibly have a fuel pressure issue. If everything else is correct, then increased fuel pressure(even just a couple psi) will increase injector flow. As a matter of fact I have used static fuel pressure adjustments to control wot a/f's in the past.(when all else fails







)
C: as stated above you could have a injector issue. After checking fuel pressure and volume you should do a flow and pattern test. 
D: TPS. both cars in your sig. are obd2 cars. Take a minute and remove the battery cables and hold them together. This will deplete the stored voltages in the ecu. Then after reconnecting the battery perform a throttle body alignment before starting the car. If the it aligns right away and shows adapt. ok. then you can move on. I have seen a few weird issues caused by voltage drops to the ecu causing irregular stored throttle correction values. And this will help rule that out.
GL I hope this helps.
Stan


_Modified by dub101 at 5:25 AM 3-21-2010_


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (dub101)*

well the housing i have was supplied by kinetic motorsports and i know they use it for the kits they sell and most dont have problems with that.i did send a log of my car to C2 so they could check everything for me to see if the chip is doing it job.
what would casue increased fuel presure? i am in the process of checkin my fuel presure with a gauge somehow routed to my windsheild so i could check it at boost and such. how do u do a flow and pattern test and what are static fuel presure ajustments?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

morning bump


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

well i touched the battery cables together to try and erase all the old values to let the TB readapt, and reset all the fuel trims.... i drove it around for a bit to let the ecu pickup on the changes and such and after awhile drving decided to try boost and stilll jumped to full rich


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

It stays full rich the whole time you are boosting? As in, it doesn't go toward lean AT ALL durring boost?


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *dub101* »_
yes it a 3 bar...... i kinda just put a motor together and threw a turbo kit on it..so as long as iv owned its run always run rich in boost
Ok. Hare's my $.02. You said that the car has always run rich since you put it together. The maf/fuel/02 readings you posted show good fuel trim at idle and cruise. Fuel trims are not calculated at wot. There are a couple possibilities. 
A: you are using the incorrect maf housing. C2 engineers their software to work with specific injectors and CALCULATED MAF sizing. They do this to effectively "scale" the maf readings for the added efficiency of the turbo. Therefore just any larger maf housing will NOT work properly.
B: you could possibly have a fuel pressure issue. If everything else is correct, then increased fuel pressure(even just a couple psi) will increase injector flow. As a matter of fact I have used static fuel pressure adjustments to control wot a/f's in the past.(when all else fails







)
C: as stated above you could have a injector issue. After checking fuel pressure and volume you should do a flow and pattern test. 
D: TPS. both cars in your sig. are obd2 cars. Take a minute and remove the battery cables and hold them together. This will deplete the stored voltages in the ecu. Then after reconnecting the battery perform a throttle body alignment before starting the car. If the it aligns right away and shows adapt. ok. then you can move on. I have seen a few weird issues caused by voltage drops to the ecu causing irregular stored throttle correction values. And this will help rule that out.
GL I hope this helps.
Stan


given his setup/symptoms none of this would really apply. He has the kinetics kit. He has a OEM FPR. The only thing i could see causing this would be an injector getting stuck open...but that would cause some idle/cruise issues as well. Did we determine if you got the RIGHT maf sensor steven?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

nope full rich all the way threw and all the way up to full boost


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

yup tried 3 diffrrent maf and even did that test with the inejectors which was pulling the fuel rail and unpluging the coil pack and cranking the car to see what the injectors sterams looked like ......well they all work... they kinda just spit they dont have like a constant stream... but that was also just cranking the car... not starting it. but i know the injectors are doing something aleast


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

Yah, all you are going to see is the inj.'s spitting... Obviously you can't start the vehicle with no injectors in hehehe.
Your problem is quite puzzling. Hope you get it sorted out! Have you scanned the ECU lately?
My car was wasting alot of fuel but not showing a rich problem AT ALL... here it was a previously stored catalyst error code =-/
Now she's back to getting 300+ miles on one tank.... way better then the 220 it was before I cleared the error.


_Modified by GolfGLIII at 1:24 PM 3-21-2010_


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

yea i scan it daily lol hoping i see something i missed or something like.... its driving my nuts...


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

Welp, i'm stumped. Other than trying 4 totally different 440 injectors, sorry I wasn't much help.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

no problem any info in my quest to the get this thing running is a big help


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

bump


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

any other ideas... im open for them


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

no one?


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

have you already tried different injectors? Sorry if you posted the answer already, i feel a little lazy at the moment.


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: (1098lover)*

what wideband are you using
Do you have a cam?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

na i didnt try diffrent injectors ,,the wideband i am useing is the aem uego and im running a tt 268/260 cam


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

could a blown turbo casue anything like this?


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

Highly doubtful, as the MAF wouldnt see more air, thus it wouldnt add more fuel.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

well i was driving it to work today and now my low presure oil light came on ... but only in 3rd gear and if my rpms droped below 2k but i where to just rev the engine it would go away......donno if that has anything to with me running rich


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

not a good idea to keep driving it if that happened....have you checked your oil?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

yea the level is all good i changed the sensor one other time and even checked the crank one other time this happend..but it just went away.. and it seems like it only comes on after bout 20mins of driving... but like i said as long as im not a high gear at low RPM's it all good.. this car is retarted


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

well what controls my fueling the injectors, the fpr, the maf and the chip right?


_Modified by steven12345 at 8:05 PM 3-22-2010_


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

helppppppppp


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

bump it up for the night


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

yes on the fuel injectors.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

na i didnt buy new one's to try and swap them to see what happens yet


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

you ever get to check the fuel pressure durring idle, cruising, and under boost?
From what I was told is, fuel pressure should rise 1psi for every 1psi of boost.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfGLIII* »_you ever get to check the fuel pressure durring idle, cruising, and under boost?
From what I was told is, fuel pressure should rise 1psi for every 1psi of boost.


if that didnt happen he'd be going lean.


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

yeah but still, it should be checked. No?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

at idle it at 40 psi havent gotton the tool to read it while in boost and such


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_given his setup/symptoms none of this would really apply. He has the kinetics kit. He has a OEM FPR. The only thing i could see causing this would be an injector getting stuck open...but that would cause some idle/cruise issues as well. Did we determine if you got the RIGHT maf sensor steven?


GL http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_well what controls my fueling the injectors, the fpr, the maf and the chip right?


maf
TPS
02 sensor
CTS


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TBT-Syncro)*

the temp sensor has something do with the fueling..... hum..... well the thing i dont get his how i dont have not one CEL code for anything not working right?


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

Go get it VAG-COM somewhere







I have to do the same, as mine to is wasting all kinds of fuel again but it doesn't even show it running rich...


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_the temp sensor has something do with the fueling..... hum..... well the thing i dont get his how i dont have not one CEL code for anything not working right?


sensors generally dont throw CEL.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TBT-Syncro)*

well i have a vag com.... well then i guess i only have 3 more sensors to change.. casue i changed my o2, changed my maf,i have a spare tps and cts


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

bump


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

Well if you have VAG-COM, what does it say?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

says everything is good... i sent a email to c2 with a log of my car and they told me need to try it on it on a dyno casue the log dosent tell them the a/f in wideband... just narrowband


_Modified by steven12345 at 9:57 PM 3-24-2010_


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

I thought you had a wideband controller gauge deal ??!


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

which car is turbo the mk4 or 3?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

mk3... and yea i have a wideband in my car but the the ecu i guess only reads narowband or something like that so they told me i need to get a dyno run read out so they can read the real a/f that is coming out the exhasut not from the stock 02


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_mk3... and yea i have a wideband in my car but the the ecu i guess only reads narowband or something like that so they told me i need to get a dyno run read out so they can read the real a/f that is coming out the exhasut not from the stock 02
yup


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

I dont quite understand, my MK3 Wideband has its own sensor and it shows me the exhaust a/f's just fine ?????


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfGLIII* »_I dont quite understand, my MK3 Wideband has its own sensor and it shows me the exhaust a/f's just fine ?????
<hr style="color: black;" width="15%" size="1" align="LEFT">
Officer Piglet : You know you were doing 90 in a construction zone?
Me: You know YOU were doing 90 in a construction zone?

no the mk3 oem ecu uses a narrow band sensor. The mk4 use a wideband sensor.


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

Oh ok I think I got it. I was talking about a seperate Wideband controller receiver unit thing, like the AEM UEGO and the other brands, etc etc.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

dead end again till i find a place to just my car dynoed to check up on things


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

any ideas?


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

so besides it running rich, is it fine? Is it so rich that its a turd or what? Have you calculated a gas milage yet?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

na not a turd at all drives good i guess


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

ok so i changed the TPS, o2, maf and got a brand new coolat sensor so i think im all checked out on the sensors


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

seriously, calculate a gas milage.
You should have a 12.5 gallon tank. Each quarter tank is 4 gallons(forget that .5...its a res







)
Reset that trip and take a long cruise


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

well what should my gas milage be at?


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

Depends how you drive, and if its all city, all highway or mixture of both.
I drive about 60 miles every morning now, a mixture of highway and stop and go city traffic. I get friggen terrible milage (12-15mpg no boosting at all) but the car shows perfect on the wideband..... 
I think we both should replace our injector o-rings, unless you are 100% sure the car is running to rich. Since mine shows no true signs of running rich, and I can't afford someone to VAG-COM my car...that's my only option.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

i did the orings there was a little bit of a leak still so i rtv them and no leak at all


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## GolfGLIII (Aug 2, 2009)

if you did the o-rings and they still leaked a little....rtv is not going to seal it. Theres no way to truely know for sure 100% that they don't leak durring boost driving. Obviously we cant watch under our intakes as we drive our cars. 
What symptoms of running rich do you have? Does it blow black smoke clouds? or does it just smell a little rich? Is your bumper covered with black?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (GolfGLIII)*

na its sealed i presure tested the whole system.....the wide band says it runs rich, it smellls rich, and and in boost hard drving when i shift a puff of smoke comes out


----------



## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

*Re: (steven12345)*

Do you have a recirc valve or a BOV?







Has that been on a dyno?


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (TIGninja)*

its DV and no i havent had a dyno done


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (steven12345)*

can you get some pics of the engine bay so we can see what you have going on


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (gtvento13)*

no prob ill have them up tomorrow


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (steven12345)*

i cant tell if there's anything on the end of the pcv, but if it's blocked it shouldnt be. if its open you should put a filter there. 
also, maybe the way your dv is routed is causing this. it should be routed AT LEAST 6-8 inches behind the maf.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (gtvento13)*

you think that moving it back closer to the turbo inlet could fix the problem?


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

no.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

damit why cant there be like a switch somewhere i didnt flick so it would just work right


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

idk i was always told not to have the dv routed too close to the maf. it wont cost you anything, i say give it a go


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtvento13* »_idk i was always told not to have the dv routed too close to the maf. it wont cost you anything, i say give it a go


he's going rich at WOT while in boost. The DV stays shut during this time.


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

touche


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (gtvento13)*

what would control this... does the ecu have anything to do with fueling at WOT


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
maf
TPS
02 sensor
CTS

^^^


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

i changed or swiched all of that out


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

if you really are running lower than 10:1 you should be misfiring/stuttering.
But lets review:
You've replaced or swapped out:
MAF
CLT 
TPS
O2 (oem)
O2 (wideband)
FPR
You've checked for leaks and have none.
You've calibrated your wideband? (if applicable)
If all that checks out. Then the only thing left for me to think is the Tune is f'd (why i dont know, leave that to c2)
But you were saying it just all of a sudden started happening? Or did you just get a wideband one day and realize it was happening?


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

just got a wideband and saw it was.. its missfireing a bit as well


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_just got a wideband and saw it was.. its missfireing a bit as well


Then the last thing i'd suggest is to get it on a dyno so you can get a reading/log of the a/f curve and send that to them. I'm sure Jeff could fix it in a blink of an eye.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

k well any other advice im still trying to find a dyno that is avaible in my area


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

http://www.smokemup.com/utils/dynosearch.php


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## 1098lover (May 16, 2009)

have you tried to taking off the air filter? some times with the filter super close to the MAF it freaks out the ecu and does strange stuff. Its doing it to my VRT right now ....


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (1098lover)*

ima try it ... but anyway if that dont work do you think i could just do a ajustable FPR and just turn down the the fuel manualy


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

well i got a few dyno runs in... still runs pig rich.... but i did learn some things... that my car does lean out eventually at high high boost.... and i we manged to get it to boost steady so it had a nice curve on my dyno plot and i also found out that at about 23 psi i hit 289HP... silll running pig rich though


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

is the dyno o2 sensor saying its pig rich or you still just referencing your in car one?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

pretty much my car and another car he dynoed yesterday burned it out so the dyno was not able to read but i have a video of my car from the cockpit with the tach, wideband, and boost gauge..... best i could do casue there sensor craped out


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*FV-QR*

289whp isnt bad at all!


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daskoupe* »_289whp isnt bad at all!


ESPECIALLY for running as rich as it seems he is! ok here's a question...is it pouring black smoke out on the dyno?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

no its not puffin black smoke just blue smoke we checked the turbo and there is some side to side shaft play in the turbo... i have video of the gauge as its on the dyno at 10psi but i didnt get one of the 289 run...








... ok i donno why the video is upside down but i cant figure out how to change it 


_Modified by steven12345 at 4:53 PM 4-12-2010_


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## pendulum (Apr 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR*

maybe your wideband or the sensor it pulls from is not functioning properly?
with all you've replaced and the steps you've taken, i know it's going to be something small & stupid.








good luck though man, i empathize with you. I'd work with C2 or Kinetic honestly since it's probably more along their areas of expertise & responsibility.
Kudos to USRT for popping in here with tech help too, that speaks well of them.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (pendulum)*

my wideband works casue it works normally just in boost it pins its self rich


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

bump


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_my wideband works casue it works normally just in boost it pins its self rich


that doesnt mean its working properly. My sensor was bad and read fine (14.7ish) at idle and cruise but as soon as i hit boost it would pin lean.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

iv tried 2 guages and both did the same..... ima test the sensor sometime this week to see if its reading right........ also what could have messed up the sensor in the 1st place..... i know i am running rich... you could tell from my spark plugs...


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_iv tried 2 guages and both did the same..... ima test the sensor sometime this week to see if its reading right........ also what could have messed up the sensor in the 1st place..... i know i am running rich... you could tell from my spark plugs...

10:1 and below and you'd be pouring out black smoke. You tried two different gauges and not two different sensors...lol.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

na i did 2 diffrent guages and 2 new sensors... maybe i need to move the 02 off the bottom of the down pipe... my stock 02 is after the a/f 02 maybe ill try and switch them around


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## pendulum (Apr 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_iv tried 2 guages and both did the same..... ima test the sensor sometime this week to see if its reading right........ also what could have messed up the sensor in the 1st place..... i know i am running rich... you could tell from my spark plugs...

i'd guess sensor failure before gauge failure. 
to answer your question about what could have messed up the sensor in the first place - well look at your plugs!







could be just fouled up
good luck


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (pendulum)*

also it pins rich... i cant remeber at what psi the car did run outa fuel and did fall flat on its face the gauge showed that


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_ the car did run outa fuel 


i was wondering when that would happen









time to upgrade


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

well i got word back from c2 and they said from the data that i sent them nothing seems to standing out that would casue a problem.... so i am guessing its back to looking into my car for the porblem...


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

I notice mine runs rich if i accelerate at anything between -10 to 0 on the vaccuum side.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Daskoupe)*

well iv done presure check again and still turned up nothing..... so i have no boost leaks at all.. even though every shop iv talked to says there has gotta be... well i havent found it after checking 4 times..... my boost gauge shows 17.5 vac... i have no idea what it is soppose to be at but thats what i got...... im stumped


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## kompressorgolf (Dec 6, 2005)

-17.5 @ idle seems a bit low, but i guess you do have a short runner. it sounds like it might be a "safe" tune.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (kompressorgolf)*

yea i got in touch with c2 and they all is good on there tune


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

any other ideas?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

could be being that i have some shaft playin my turbo that the air coming might just be leaking into the hot side of the turbo which be a leak... but also allow the turbo to work like nothing is wrong


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

BUMP


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

anyone?


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## TgiRicky (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: (steven12345)*

i have a custom made SRI with an intercooler and i'm running at vac 13 at idle. where would your extra vaccum be coming from


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

depends on cam thats in the car too. i idle at 14inHg







...if that turbo is leaking air in behind the compressor housing. then it air thats not been measured by the maf which = rich condition.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

like i said i got some major side to side shaft play in my turbo.... its buring oil and such but boosts just fine.....lol and i am running a tt 268/264 cam im pretty sure thats the cam #'s but like iv told you guys that when i do a presure test i hear no air leaking out of the turbo unless its droping into the exhuast and still holding boost


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

up


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

bump


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

?????


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## pendulum (Apr 29, 2001)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

did you ever replace the wideband's 02 sensor? 
i'm just thinking that the issue is more perception of the problem rather than there being an actual functional problem - and i only say that because you are putting down good power and it doesn't seem your car has any actual "running" issues.
In other words, the *only* reason you suspect there is a problem is because of your wideband, right? the car idles, drives, and runs fine? puts down good, appropriate power on the dyno, C2 looked at the file, everything is kosher, no black smoke on the dyno, and you've tested every possible thing in the engine bay.....
are you sure there is really a problem, outside of what the wideband tells you?
maybe there really isn't a problem?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (pendulum)*

well if the wideband is telling me and my plugs are telling me its running rich i know something is going on


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## pendulum (Apr 29, 2001)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_well if the wideband is telling me and my plugs are telling me its running rich i know something is going on

turbo setups are supposed to run rich though. 
have you replaced your wideband's 02 sensor yet? I would think that would be the next logical step in your troubleshooting process.
lastly, have you tried contacting Kinetic? (i think i remember you saying this is a kinetic kit).


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (pendulum)*

yea i called kinetics and all they told me was it has to be a boost leak..... and yea i changed the sensor and even the whole gauge setup.. to 2 diffrent guages and 2 sensors and still the same reading..


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: 2.0turbo running really rich (steven12345)*

only other thing i can think of is that being i have alot of shaft play... that maybe the turbin is moving around to much and allowing air to pass into the hotside while boosting.... btu its not a major huge leak that it would stop it from boosting...


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

shaft play doesnt do that.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

its weird casue it not in and out shaft play more like side to side


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

Get a map sensor







MAF's blow the monkey's nuts.
Is it longitudinal shaft play? along the shaft or forward and back into the edges of the seals?


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Zorba2.0)*

i donno it jiggles side to side as if you where looking into the inlet of of the turbo


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

What FPR is your chip tuned for?


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TIGninja)*

from what i am told all c2 software is tuned for 3 bar


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

could this be a possiblity... being that i have some major shaft play the turbo is buring oil...could it be that i have so much shaft play that when i am get into boost that the air is leaking out of the compresor side of the turbo..and going into the exhaust which is why i wouldnt be able to hear the air leaking out of anywhere?


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

no


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

well its the only thing i can thinki off... mainly casue when i cap of the end that goes into the intake manifold and block of all the lines that go into the motor i still have air comeing out the pcv but i donno how that could be being that it has no way of getin in the motor except therw the exhasust side the turbo


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

there's always air that passes the rings some.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

even if i presure test just the intercooler pipeing....and i block off any hose that goes into the motor that would be attached to the intercooler pipeing


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

like i said i presure tested the intercooler pipeing and i still have a leak casue my compresor keeps turning back on to fill the tank.... so i disconnetd all the hose from anything that routes back into the motor so only the turbo is connected to the motor and i am geting air coming out my pcv valve...on the top of my valve cover how can that be if there is not air going into the motor threw the intake mainfold i have a video tell me what you think


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

bump


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

good nite bump


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

up again


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

anyone?


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

no one? am i soppose to have air coming outa my pcv with nothing being hooked up to the motor except the turbo?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*


_Quote, originally posted by *steven12345* »_no one? am i soppose to have air coming outa my pcv with nothing being hooked up to the motor except the turbo? 

when the motor is running, yet.
with the motor idling, take the oil filler cap off. there should be some pressure here, but not much. if there is a lot, you need a motor/head rebuild.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TBT-Syncro)*

what about if the motor is not running and i am just presure testing the intercooler pipeing as you can see in the video i have


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

up


----------



## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (steven12345)*

The crankcase should not be connected to your charge piping anywhere. This will pressureize your crankcase and nothing good can come of this. 
What you need to do at this point is also do a compression check and see if you already damaged the engine because of a tune thats not working properly. Then you need to go to a dyno and see where the actual fuel mixture is at. Seeming rich is not a valid indicator of fuel mixture. This assumption has probably cost you a motor already.


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TIGninja)*

the motor runs fine.. compression is all good ..... but what i am saying is being that i have no air going in the motor why is there air coming out of the pcv... i did a presure test on my just my intercooler pipeing alone.... there is no connection between the intercooler pipeing and motor when i am doing the presure test and still i am geting air out the pcv..... how can this be? i also contacted c2 and the tune is all good.. i went to a dyno and the a/f at this point is all good at normal driving and pig rich at boost there is a leak.... so its not in my pipeing of any sort.. only thing i can think of is that the turbo is leaking internaly?


----------



## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

bump does any one know..... is it possible that the turbo seals are shot and are leaking air into the motor some how?


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## snobum (Dec 16, 2005)

did you ever solve this problem? i know that not sealing the exhaust , or the intercooler piping will affect this.

i have been having same problems for months now although im not using c2 tune. im on a custom file about to switch to c2 , im running rc 440s and a 3.5 fpr and my afr's are low like that 10s and what not. but i know for a fact that my maf is getting low voltage and is effecting my low numbers. 

i would undo everything and put it back together sometimes you miss something, i wonder if it could be a bad lambda .


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

i keep presure testing everything i had a leak some where ... so i just singled out the turbo... i tested just the intercooler pipeing with the turbo bolted to the motor so the way air could get in is threw the turbo.... and sure enough i had air coming out my pcv with out anything being hooked upp.... so i figured my turbo seals where shot on the inside of the turbo


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## snobum (Dec 16, 2005)

do you know anyone with a turbo that you can borrow. i know there going super cheap on ctsturbo.com


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## steven12345 (Jul 18, 2006)

ok well i went with a gt3071r turbo just to see if it was the turbo casuin me to run rich..... no i didnt go waste my money my t3/t4 turbo was shot and such.... so i am back to square 1 again.. trying to find out why the car runs pig rich


----------

