# cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates....



## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

so the car hesitates when i try to floor only under say about 5K RPMs....if i dont do full throttle until 5K it will usually get past without hesitating and then i can floor it and it runs fine and then if i stay on it to the next gear it will be fine usually since itll be above 5K already....the hesitation between 4-5K under full throttle mostly but sometimes part throttle too is a little more than just a misfire it really just stops the car completly from moving with any speed....ive swapped out coilpacks, plug wires, the MAF and i put brand new NGK BKR7E plugs in and nothing changed at all....im seeing 12psi in 2nd and third and 14psi in fourth at max....the o2 sensor was brand new last summer and has done this hesitation since day one....im using a brand new 3.0BAR FPR, vacuume lines are new and correct. EGR is still connected and im using accell 36# injectors, ive swapped injectors too, C2 OBD1 36# chip and the 15psi pulley. the only things i havent swapped out off the top of my head is the TPS and the ISV....car has a 2.9 intake and TB but everything else is stock. any other ideas or suggestions? most of this hesitation is in the 4K-4500K RPM range....car feels fine under and over those ranges but bogs basiclly everytime in that range without some serious massaging of the gas pedal. this is on a corrado and the wiring is out of a 95 passat. thats all i can think of for now.
BTW im not trying to bash C2 in anyway, id like to find out whats wrong with my car and i cant blame them at the moment....oh yeah the scan port isnt hooked up yet...


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

Welcome to my hell. I will post again tomorrow after I go to the mechanic. I have a feeling the MAF is bad. I've been working at solving it for a while. Mine is now so bad the car now will not run unless the idle air is unplugged. Hence I am going into the shop for diagnostic work. The MAF is the only part that is not new.
Bucking under light throttle is turbulence around the MAF and can be fixed. Bucking under load in 4&5th is a hard call. Work with C2 and keep us posted. I was told there is maybe 2 people who even run the OBD1 36lb software on a super charged VR6. As for bashing C2 I can only say the C2 them selves rock and I should make more effort to deal with them and stop asking Jeff questions that are never answered.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

What does the wideband tell you?
this will quickly tell you if its fueling related, or if its somewhere else.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (TBT-PassatG60)*

i dont have a wideband man....this was supposed to be throw it on and go if i had to do wideband and a turbo timer and standalone i would have done turbo but i appreciate the help but i dont have much to work with. im thinking of dynoing it may 13th and getting a fuel reading then...


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

forgot to mention id do have the walbro inline fuel pump installed and working too in case someone thought of that already....my car should be ok by now and its not and sucks and i need to find out if it is me or a software glitch at this point....could be either and im willing to try and sort it....


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_i dont have a wideband man....this was supposed to be throw it on and go 

Just go to a shop that has a wideband, and rent it for a few hours.


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (TBT-PassatG60)*

someone explain wideband to me please?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (doobsta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *doobsta* »_someone explain wideband to me please?









it measures the air/fuel ratio of yyoru exhaust gases.


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

I am having the same problem with my OBD1 jetta, i have a wideband and as soon as i hit 4500/5000 rpms it goes from 12.8 all the way to the right (20.0 or something like that) the car boggs and then it shoots off like a bat out of hell and the A/F is back in the 12's.. I am lost as to what the problem is.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_I am having the same problem with my OBD1 jetta, i have a wideband and as soon as i hit 4500/5000 rpms it goes from 12.8 all the way to the right (20.0 or something like that) the car boggs and then it shoots off like a bat out of hell and the A/F is back in the 12's.. I am lost as to what the problem is. 

what setup are you using.....also forgot to mention the car doesnt start well at all...usually have tp pull the fuel pump relay and once it starts put it back in but i think thats because the car is being flooded with fuel upon startup....i also checked the blue temp sensor and it seemed fine....i did not put a new one in since it seemed to check out....what kind of shops have wideband to rent im unfamiliar...thanks, rick


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

I have the OBD1 C2 stage 2 kit (V2 with the 36# injectors and c2 software) with a 15psi pulley, walbro in-line fuel pump, neuspeed TB, eurospec BVH, 256 fi cams and eip intake manifold. the car runs/starts perfect, but i seem to have the same problem you are having at 4500/5000 rpms. On a last thread it said to use a 3bar FPR so i replased my 4 bar with a 3 bar but i still have the same problem..


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

yeah but the 3bar should have helped down low and general smoothness, atleast it did with mine....still looking replies...wheres C2?


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

someone Pm them this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

Bring me a car I'll figure it out.

-Jeff


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

for free?








i seriously could bring it to you if this were the case....


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Bring me a car I'll figure it out.

-Jeff


Damn i wish i was closer







although i am tempted to take the drive lol..


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

if you do fix it, you should post in this thread for future reference
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BeitzDUB (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (doobsta)*

Glad to see Im not the only one dealing with this issue. We are shipping
the C2 chipped ECU back for diag/upgrades, went back to running old school AMS, for right now, seems to run alright.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (BeitzDUB)*

if jeffs offer is a free one i might be heading up to CT....


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (BeitzDUB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BeitzDUB* »_Glad to see Im not the only one dealing with this issue. We are shipping
the C2 chipped ECU back for diag/upgrades, went back to running old school AMS, for right now, seems to run alright.


wait, so your AMS software is working fine? whats your set up?


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## BeitzDUB (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_wait, so your AMS software is working fine? whats your set up?

The VRSC is a friends, bluemk3vr, he has dual idlers and 15lb pulley, no it is NOT running fine


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (BeitzDUB)*

I sure hope some one is able to go and get it tunned right. I can feel there is good power to be had if it would just run well from day to day.


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Scooter98144)*

is this a OBD1 thing? I know the OBD2 people dont have this problem.


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

Yes I am OBD1..


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_is this a OBD1 thing? I know the OBD2 people dont have this problem.

KeiZer you running OBD II C2 SC STAGE II succesfully?


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_is this a OBD1 thing? I know the OBD2 people dont have this problem.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2580015


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## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_is this a OBD1 thing? I know the OBD2 people dont have this problem....


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (doobsta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *doobsta* »_
KeiZer you running OBD II C2 SC STAGE II succesfully?


I have OBD1


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

here is a small clip i just took of the choke i get at the 4000/5000 rpm area, sorry its so messy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDybTtPf06Q


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

it says i have to be your friend to watch the vid.......its set to private.
rick, bring it to the next gtg......i'll look at it.


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (PBWB)*

ooops.. try it again, i just put it as public.. What GTG are you talking about? im down in florida man, far from everything


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

i was talking to hubbell, sorry bout the confusion.








Was that WOT???? Man that's kinda scary.


_Modified by PBWB at 6:20 PM 4-28-2006_


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (PBWB)*

im pretty sure it wasnt WOT...thats what mind does....im talking with jeff to get up there....and ill bring it to this tuesdays GTG, ill be there for sure...nice vid though keizer....i should make one to show.....will your car keiser, once it passes that range "recover" and pull like crazy?


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_im pretty sure it wasn't WOT...thats what mind does....im talking with jeff to get up there....and ill bring it to this tuesdays GTG, ill be there for sure...nice vid though keizer....i should make one to show.....will your car keiser, once it passes that range "recover" and pull like crazy?


yes that was not WOT and yes when it passes the 4000/5000 rpm area where it chokes it takes off. if i drive it hard it will pass the choking area and keep going, its when i drive normal that it chokes at those rpm's for some reason. It has me lost as to what the problem is. here it is on the dyno http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSkCLxsLjs8 no problems at all, but when you drive it normal it will choke on me.. The guy at the shop couldn't figure it out as to why it was doing that. i even went as far as to put a rising rate FPR and that didn't do anything







so if you and PBWB or jeff figure what the problem is please let me know before i blow my car up


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

and yours is a stock 95 coilpack whereas mine is a swap but i dont think that has anything to do with this....either we're all really really bad mech, which i could be or theres something else going on here...ive done almost everything i could think of to check or fix the problem....its only lead me to more boost http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif but the problem in that range....more boost was because i forgot a few clamps and i had a boost leak there....


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

What does your boost gauge read when the studdering happens?
i.e. you say the issue occurs at part throttle. I want to know if it happens
when your at ~15vac rolling up the rpms ~slowly or Nearer to zero 
vac/boost...
Test: find the vac level when the DV opens.
drive through the 'studder' 2 times: once DV ~open, once DV ~closed.

-Jeff

_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_here is a small clip i just took of the choke i get at the 4000/5000 rpm area, sorry its so messy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDybTtPf06Q


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

i was looking at the gauge and it chokes when its at 0 vac or a little above that. Only when i drive it normal though, when i drive it hard it works pretty damn good. I have 256 cams in, would that cause the problem?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

in a word: compressor surge

Test 2: get a ~2 port DV. 
Older Greddy valve (re-rout it of course)
heck even use a wastegate with ~5psi spring.
Top port to manifold
bottom port to compressor outlet (anywhere before TB)

-Jeff


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

Why would this be the diverter valves fault. I am NOT getting surge. All the stuttering and bucking I get is in 4&5th gear just past 0-VAC. Both diverter valves are fully closed well before then. What good is having boost directed at the valve going to do if it is already closed? They close as fast as I cant get to boost. As in SNAP they are closed.
Having had a mechanic in the car when it was bucking and having him watch the VAG come he as well as I felt it was not a diverter valve problem.
Why would this not show up on the turbo cars if it was a valve problem. Was there any thing to learn in the file I emailed? I never heard any thing back so I was wondering if it was useless?

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_in a word: compressor surge

Test 2: get a ~2 port DV. 
Older Greddy valve (re-rout it of course)
heck even use a wastegate with ~5psi spring.
Top port to manifold
bottom port to compressor outlet (anywhere before TB)

-Jeff


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Scooter98144)*

This DOES happen on turbo cars.
When the turbine side is ~too small.
I am trying to get you guys to install a valve that will
open when there is a pressure differential.
so that the valve is OPEN when drving at ~zero vac.
(i.e. there is real pressure in front of the TB)
I want the valve OPEN ANYTIME you are not at WOT so the compressor can flow. Holding the tb ~part open is limiting the flow
through the compressor thus causing surge.
Most turbo cars with large enough turbines cannot spool the
turbo enough under these ~part throttle conditions for this
to be an issue. BUT, with the SC it spins reqardless of
engine load.

You outta drive a turbo are car that suffers from this issue.
HORRIBLE
without a new turbo only way to fix it is the way I have described,
use a 2 port DV.

Scott: the data you sent indicated large inj. pulse width varions.
~some value, but without block 007 (to show me where on the
map(s) you were at the time), not much value other than illustrating
the condition.

-Jeff




_Modified by Jefnes3 at 11:48 PM 4-29-2006_


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

Where can i get a 2 port DV? I am willing to try it out and see if it helps


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

wow quite a bit of chat going on here....mine is also at about 0 vac/psi and then into the low psi of boost say under 4 psi usually....after all you said im honestly lost is there a do this and then this will happen direction in there? i can try a different valve i dont mind that...just tell us what to get etc....i guess the two port DV one vac line from in front of the TB and one vac line from after the TB to hook it up? is that correct? the dual DV will literarly have two DV built into one basiclly? thanks, rick


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## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

Let me add my ten cents because my two cents is free:
I have owned/driven a number of different forced induction vr6s and have never experienced this phenonemon. The combinations I have had experience with include a vr6 with a t3/t4 .63 A/R exhaust housing with a greddy type s bov with only the top port hooked up, a S/C vr6 with a v1 and both 3.12" and 2.87" pulleys and NO bov as well as with a greddy type s with just the top port hooked up, a s/c vr6 with a v1 and a 3.12" pulley and an HKS SSQV bov, and a vr6 with a v2 a 2.817" pulley and a Forge dump valve. In over 40,000 miles on these different setups (different cars) not once have I had this problem. The difference between everyone posting here and my experiences - none of these setups have used C2 software. I can't see how all these cars are experiencing compressor surge and yet I never did? 
I have also driven two vr6 turbos with c2 software and have not experienced this and also know of an obd2 stage I C2 s/c car that doesn't complain of this issue so I am not saying it is the software. Unforutantely I don't have an answer but just thought I would add my experiences. Also don't forget for years Vortech never mentioned ANYTHING about using a bov/dump valve with their chargers.


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

Ok so I am following you so far. Why was it never a problem when I was using the ATP software? I should also add that if I go full throttle it will buck from 0vac to some amount of boost in 5th badly and boost will not increase in 4th much less so and it will smooth out. If I shift to 3rd gear and go full throttle it does not buck at all and I am seeing even more RPM / air flow. If a valve takes 12" of vacum to open then would it not take 12psi of boost to push said spring up and reopen the valve? I guess I would need a 0-5 psi spring? 
As a different test I hooked up the wide bands narrow band out-put and bucking is now much harder to create. It stalls at stop lights and coming off the freeways. I solved that be disconnecting the ISV valve. I think the output reacts to fast for the software? But bucking is harder to create if not gone all together. Seems to depend on the weather.
I will see about logging block 0-7 as well as the other again to maybe help out more. Though I did not remember block 0-7 being an option with OBD1

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_This DOES happen on turbo cars.
When the turbine side is ~too small.
I am trying to get you guys to install a valve that will
open when there is a pressure differential.
so that the valve is OPEN when drving at ~zero vac.
(i.e. there is real pressure in front of the TB)
I want the valve OPEN ANYTIME you are not at WOT so the compressor can flow. Holding the tb ~part open is limiting the flow
through the compressor thus causing surge.
Most turbo cars with large enough turbines cannot spool the
turbo enough under these ~part throttle conditions for this
to be an issue. BUT, with the SC it spins reqardless of
engine load.

You outta drive a turbo are car that suffers from this issue.
HORRIBLE
without a new turbo only way to fix it is the way I have described,
use a 2 port DV.

Scott: the data you sent indicated large inj. pulse width varions.
~some value, but without block 007 (to show me where on the
map(s) you were at the time), not much value other than illustrating
the condition.

-Jeff
_Modified by Jefnes3 at 11:48 PM 4-29-2006_



_Modified by Scooter98144 at 7:29 AM 4-30-2006_


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## J.Q. Public (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_Ok so I am following you so far. Why was it never a problem when I was using the ATP software? 

All three of the s/c cars I mention used ATP software as well a an eip/fmu combo for a while and never had this problem. If the compressor was surging it should do it with all software as unlike a turbo the software isn't going to change spool. I thought the problem with a larger turbo that spools early is the air backs up and stalls the compressor wheel and then the turbine re-spools the compressor wheel and backs the air back up, causing the surging problem. I don't see how a mechanically driven s/c can surge like that as the compressor wheel can't stall without causing the belt to slip. Not saying its impossible just doesn't seem likely.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (J.Q. Public)*

compressor ~stall hase NOTHING to do with changing its rpm.
i'm talking aerodynamic stall here.
no ATP tuned car ever runs ~15psi pulleys. (~spinning slower)
~install a ~6-7psi pulley and see if the issue happens.
Look I am doing the best I can here. You guys are ~demanding 
that I fix this. I can't fix this without a car.
I'm done until a car shows up.

-Jeff


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## -:VW:- (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote »_The difference between everyone posting here and my experiences - none of these setups have used C2 software. I can't see how all these cars are experiencing compressor surge and yet I never did?

Were they OBDI? Not saying that's the problem but I'm curious.


_Modified by -:VW:- at 9:24 AM 4-30-2006_


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_compressor ~stall hase NOTHING to do with changing its rpm.
i'm talking aerodynamic stall here.
no ATP tuned car ever runs ~15psi pulleys. (~spinning slower)
~install a ~6-7psi pulley and see if the issue happens.
Look I am doing the best I can here. You guys are ~demanding 
that I fix this. I can't fix this without a car.
I'm done until a car shows up.

-Jeff


i appreciate you taking the time to tell us your thoughts. ill bring you my car ive Im'd you my phone number and we can go from there. thanks, rick


_Modified by hubbell at 6:30 PM 4-30-2006_


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

at least i now know its not just me, i was starting to think i was the reason to the problem







I wish i didn't live that far from you jeff, i would have been there in a sec if i could. 
Bump for some one to get their car over to him so he can check it out..


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

We know your doing the best you can. I thank you for the hard work and effort. With some luck a car will be there soon and you can tune a true OBD1 SCer chip. So folks can get the correct software for the application.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

jeff your IM might not be working, i left my number and asked for yours but havent heard anything its been three days and youve posted on this post so maybe your IM isnt working. would stil love to talk with you when you get a chance. 703.585.1955...
BTW not like three days is too long just saying youve been on and havent replied...thanks, rick


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

hey jeff, are people having the same problems with the OBD1 kinetic turbo kits? i know they are also using C2 software so i was just wondering if it was just a SC thing, i was thinking of switching over to a turbo kit and didnt want to run into the same problem.


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

My set up
Corrado Dizzy 'Beta' C2 S/W OBD1
30 lb/hr injectors
Stock MAF
DV rerouted
T3/T04
Intercooled
No InLine Pump

Again I run low boost because of my stock MAF
NO problem when transitioning from vacuum into boost while cruising or simply stepping into it
d


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (fastslc)*

A short update even with the wide bands narrow band output hooked up I still get bucking but it is engine temp related. As in until the car is up to full temp it will not buck at all. It is also not present in 4th or any lower gear. Though it will buck a little in 4th at times.
So I to am looking forward to a chip that is tuned for a SC car and not a turbo set up. Hope some one is able to get this done in the next week or two.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_hey jeff, are people having the same problems with the OBD1 kinetic turbo kits? i know they are also using C2 software so i was just wondering if it was just a SC thing, i was thinking of switching over to a turbo kit and didnt want to run into the same problem.


As afr as I know, the Kinetic guys do NOT have this issue.
Rest assured if they did Kinetic would be calling me....
Rick, I owe you a call. Dr. appt tomorrow = no work. I'll call.

-Jeff


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

If we are doing revisions. Would it be possible to get a version that turns off the ISV check engine light if we wanted to just use the set screw at the throttle to set idle.
I would also like to see an attempt at a version that places the MAF at the throttle body so a true blow off valve can be used? I always liked how the ATP obd1 chip had the MAF at the throttle.


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Scooter98144)*

so what exactly is an 'aerodynamic stall'? the where the demand goes from 15 lbs back to -22 vac. in an instant? i could understand that if that's what the definition is. But I can tell you first hand, Ive seen the car in person, and the hesitation persists at POT only. If you beat on it, she coasts right through the gear. If your driving normally, it happens, and rpms stay the same. Its not like rpm's are still climbing when this happens. When it hesitates, and you input MORE throttle, it still stays the same, you have to back off, then damn near floor it to get through the gear. I personally have eliminated it to a software glitch. But hey, im not a software engineer. (not tryin to be an ass jeff).
On that note, lets get this thing scheduled so Rick can get his car up there.


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (PBWB)*

I gave up on it, i took it to 2 shops and they couldn't fix the problem.. Its in the software for sure, like you said, if you beat it it passes the choking point but if you drive it normal it chokes at those rpm's every time..


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

actually since its been bumped again im still waiting on the phone call...when you get a second please jeff....im thnking may 28th to drop it off just for some heads up but we can chat...-rick
703.585.1955


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

Up to the top on this problem I am at a loss as it is not there every day. Did not do it at all on the way home but it was bad last night.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Scooter98144)*

jeff called me this morning were looking at dropoff being around may 28th and pickup a few weeks laterish....


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_jeff called me this morning were looking at dropoff being around may 28th and pickup a few weeks laterish....


Nice, i hope you he solves the problem


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

I still WANT or would like it tunned with the MAF at the throttle body..! The ATP software worked like this and I loved it. I liked being able to use a blow off valve of any size.! If you have till the 28th maybe you could make that happen?


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Scooter98144)*

i dunno....that 4" MAF might not fit so well in the engine compartment and i think they way it is now is cleaner looking then with the MAF after the charger....i also dont think jeff is looking to do a ton of changing, i think he is mainly looking to make his current setup work nicely in general. before the 28th i need to get the scan port working and scaned to make sure no codes are on from me....otherthan that ill tighten up the belt for him and change the oil and thats about it.


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

rick
what's wrong with ur scan port ?


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (fastslc)*

we didnt have one with the wiring i received for the swap so i need to hook one up...can someone tell me how to hook it up, i think its easy if youve done this swap before.....i can goto the junkyard and get the actuall port its just been cold until now and ive been in school...


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

So whats the price we are going to have to pay to get out software up to date? i hope we wont be getting hit in the head, it should have came already set to go yo know...


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_we didnt have one with the wiring i received for the swap so i need to hook one up...can someone tell me how to hook it up, i think its easy if youve done this swap before.....i can goto the junkyard and get the actuall port its just been cold until now and ive been in school...

Talk to "Absolute_Novice" aka Dennis on the Rado forums. He just did his obd2 conversion I believe..


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

I am not willing to pay much more than the cost of the chip and a 4-7 bucks for the shipping.


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KIEZERJOSE* »_So whats the price we are going to have to pay to get out software up to date? i hope we wont be getting hit in the head, it should have came already set to go yo know... 

If its anything like their 2.0 software, I'll be an exchange plus ~$50. But dont quote me on any of that, but anyone who has a 2.0 knows. Theres just a couple kinks to work out with the 2.0 software, plus Im sure Jeff has a crap load of other stuff goin on too.


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (PBWB)*

That sounds fair, i hope it is the same with the VR6. I was very happy with his work, that little problem was the only thing that was bothering me.. With all the stuff i took off i never EVER seen the CEL light go on, now that i have the car back to NA the CEL is never off








Jeff keep us posted man, my charger is off for now so when ever you are ready i will ship my chip over to you asap http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

Well at this point I am not worried about cost. I just wanted a product that works the way it was supposed to. Considering it never ran right from day one I do not see why I should pay much if any thing.


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Scooter98144)*

Yeah i feel you, we should have got the software ready to go but **** happens.. i just want the car to run right at this point, i already spent way more than i wanted to thinking i was at fault til the mechanics couldent figure it out..


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## lowandslow2.0 (Aug 1, 2005)

i dont know what the problem is but i just intalled c2 stage 2 on my obd2 2.0 and im having the same exact problem.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (lowandslow2.0)*

little update here....my friend and i, mainly my friend, worked on my car tonight and finally plugged in the vagcom...i had a ton of codes but it was due to the swap as expected. we cleared them and came up with three, secondary air pump which i dont have at all, just a freeze plug but i thought jeff got rid of that on his chip? also came back with vehicle speed sensor and engine speed sensor. also my vac is at 12mmHg and im told it should be at more like 20mmHg....any thoughts? we swapped out the engine speed sensor but it still says no signal....we'll continue to check up on things but for now this is where Im at...everything else is fine it seems....


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: (hubbell)*

You are still bringing your car over to jeff right? I hope you can get the problem taken cared of. i took it off til i can get the right software








Im still thinking of just selling it and buying a turbo kit but i dont want to give up that fast.. Now my car is a slug


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (KIEZERJOSE)*

yeah i can still bring it to him but id like to figure out this issue first if possible...i dont see the point to bring him a car with codes...


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (hubbell)*

Codes be dammed the software simply does not work. I have a fellow VW friend here in Seattle with the exact same set up as mine. After several different chips that never worked right he took it all off and returned it to C2 for a refund. He had better results running the OLD AMS chip. The last chip he got lost 30HP on the dyno and still did not run well. Mine works well some days and not well others. Yet I have yet to find a common thing with the problem other than heat.
It has nothing to do with surging or compressor stall. If it did I should be able to repeat the problem from day to day. So I sure hope you get the car to him and that Jeff can get some hands on tuning with a SCVR6 OBD1 car at last. I am giving it another 30days MAX and if it is not resolved I will take the MAF injectors and chip off and return it for a refund!!!! 
I have a feeling that MY ATP chip with a RRFPR would do a better job.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

bump....anythought on the low vac? would the DV spring have any effect on this such as me using the red, the strongest spring?


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

Not at all. What does tec support at C2 have to say?

_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_bump....anythought on the low vac? would the DV spring have any effect on this such as me using the red, the strongest spring?


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

anyone read this post...he solved his bucking due to faulty split sec box which i believe fools the ecu into running right with boost? so in my mind thats a software issue of sorts? tell me if im wrong, ive been known to be before, still not hating on c2... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif -rick


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

Bump


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hubbell* »_anyone read this post...he solved his bucking due to faulty split sec box which i believe fools the ecu into running right with boost? so in my mind thats a software issue of sorts? tell me if im wrong, ive been known to be before, still not hating on c2... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif -rick

That car was a distributor VR6 car, and NOT running the same code.
IF this is a tuning issue (i'm not convinced of this yet) it is in the golf/jetta 258EA/BM code only. I'll get to the bottom of it when a test car arrives.
-Jeff


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Jefnes3)*

my friend has checked into the vehicle speed sensor, and found that we probably missed the wire for it going to the ECU which would be a good reason to get that code....we will work on this soon to correct this issue and see if the others go away....others being engine speed sensor but someone else said the car had to be on not to get that code? sounds weird but we'll start with the vss and get that one done and go from there. the car wont be going to jeff until all codes are cleared up to be fair to jeff since i cant point a finger until everything is done on my end of things. just wanted to give everyone the update...


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## Manolo. (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

Did you guys ever get the OBD1 software problem fixed? I want to buy the stage 2 software for my OBD1 but dont want to run into the same problems. 
TIA


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## Manolo. (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Manolo.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Manolo.* »_Did you guys ever get the OBD1 software problem fixed? I want to buy the stage 2 software for my OBD1 but dont want to run into the same problems. 
TIA


Any word from C2 on this? I have herd nothing but good things about you guys and my brothers C2 OBD2 set up has been running strong for 8 months now (problems free) . i really want to run your software but i would like to know that this problem was corrected on the OBD1 SC software.


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Manolo.)*

As far as I can tell my problem was do to a bad idler pulley and sudden belt slip under load. I replaced the idler pulley and tightened the belt. So for I no longer get ANY bucking at all.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (Scooter98144)*

ok.....another update here.....lots of things have changed....
1. talked with jeff at waterfest and we decided i had a chip that was early obd1 that had a hard start problem so jeff made sure i had the right one. so now the cars starts everytime no worries. 
2. found out the yellow temp coolant sensor wire at the fuse box was not hooked up so i hooked it up. not sure what it does but every little bit helps.
3. removed the EGR completly and capped it off at the manifold and exhaust.
4. bout the 8 rib belt and cut it down
5. tightened the belt twice, once on install and once after it was warm.
6. found out i swapped out a good 4 bar FPR for a 3 bar because a few people said thats what i needed and instead of checking for myself i trusted them and i was informed wrong. my fault for being hasty. have now put back in the 4 bar FPR.
7. found the plug for the VSS that was also unhooked. hooked it up. i know its working now because on a corrado the VSS tells the spoiler to raise and lower which it now does automatically.
so heres how the car is right now....drives great when pulling through the gears. around twon it feel nice and the coolant temps are acting normally. i think the belt could stand to be tightened one more time now because even though i tightened it twice each time was not very tight. im seeing just below 15 psi at redline in 3rd @ 95- 100 MPH
the problem seems to me to be when im in a high gear like 5th and i try to floor it to get going without downshifting, then the car will buck and not want to go. this is the only time. one thing i have the stiffer spring in the DV so i can try the light one again tomorrow if anyone thinks that will help ( i mean jeff enter thoughts here or anyone else but really looking for jeff). i can also tighten the belt one more time after i drive it and see how things are. i have not recently scanned for codes since the new chip but i believe it will have none now since before i had only the VSS and i know thats fine now. i can easily live with it this way but maybe we can work on it a bit more and see what happens. it is getting better everyday and im open to suggestions. hope others are getting somewhere as well...im still not ready to throw this back at c2 yet. i think im to new to this FI stuff to have a real elg to stand on and i def dont want to waste a trip so i will try everything i can at home before making the costly and timely trip up to Ct. thanks in adavance for the tips.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (hubbell)*

so that new chip worked better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif did you also have to unplug your TPS? i found that is the only way that my car would run right, it has been runing pretty damn good with out it for some crazy reason. I was also running the 3bar, guess im going to swich it back to the oe 4bar fpr.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: cant get STG2 C2 SC to work for me.....hesitates.... (KIEZERJOSE)*

yeah that was bad info on the 3 bar. i told a few people but it was a vortex handmedown info so it was wrong....sorry about that one. the new chip was basiclly to fix the starting issue, i had one of the really early versions to the chip and it flooded the car upon startup.


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