# High power LED fog lamps



## Ribulose16v (Oct 8, 2002)

Hey Guys, I came across a web site I found interesting and emailed them.
http://www.colorblade.com
They work with high power LEDs and have a compact 12V color LED fixture. I was told that you have full control over the LEDs and theres 1000lumens of light.
They also said they can make custom fixtures, and are using the LEDs that auto manufactures are using now for projection lighting.
What do you guy think?


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## drjpmalin (Dec 14, 2007)

LEDs are absolutely the future man, a couple companies are making replacement indoor lights that run on 110ac. i wouldn't be surprised to see LED fogs standard in a year or two. maybe even legal LED headlights.


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## Ribulose16v (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: (drjpmalin)*

Hey, just to keep you posted, I've been watching these guys because I heard the designer works for a concert lighting company.
Looks like they made a high power LED light for cars!


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

*Re: High power LED fog lamps (Ribulose16v)*


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## Ribulose16v (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: High power LED fog lamps (tiptronic)*

Hey those look awesome! Are those factory stock? I was looking at the colorblade unit and it comes in color. Not sure about the legalities of that, but it looks like from the video white light can be made and you can change the color temperature from cold to warm?


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

*Re: High power LED fog lamps (Ribulose16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ribulose16v* »_Hey those look awesome! Are those factory stock? I was looking at the colorblade unit and it comes in color. Not sure about the legalities of that, but it looks like from the video white light can be made and you can change the color temperature from cold to warm?

These are custom made with hi-flux LEDs- white. Stay away from those RGB leds (multicolor). The ones in my pics are purewhite- neutral white (not ''cool white"- bluish hue, nor "warm"-yellowish hue.
Hence, with their brightness and wide angle view- i'm able to use them as ''DRLs" under bright daylight.
e


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## ECS 1.8T (Jun 23, 2008)

*Re: (drjpmalin)*

audi has the first production vehicle with full LED headlights....its about an $8000.00 option on THE R8


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## Ribulose16v (Oct 8, 2002)

*Re: High power LED fog lamps (tiptronic)*

Ya the white looks nice!!
I think the deal with those colored LED units is you can make what ever color drving light you want, which sounds cool, not sure how the man would like it, lol


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## paul_shark (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: High power LED fog lamps (Ribulose16v)*

Some detail on the R8's LED headlamps:









In time, the current ballast+xenon bulb HID systems will be obsolete. As the technology improves, use will spread and prices will drop. It won't happen overnight, but its coming.
Lexus has an HID low beam on their hybrid LS.


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## colorblade (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: High power LED fog lamps (paul_shark)*

Hi All, 
We've been working with high power LED systems for 4 years now.
We started in the entertainment industry because people wanted cost effective colored lighting and typically they use white light with filters or expensive moving lights. 
In the past 5 years LED power has really grown, now to the point where white light outputs are high enough to projector a decent amount of light.
We primarily use the Philips brand LEDs. They have a nice package that is 3x6mm and can be driven to almost 200 lumens. To put that number into perspective an HID headlamp assembly is 2500 lumens.
The challenge engineers face with LED technology is heat dissipation. LEDs are not that efficient yet. So depending on the amount of light required a proper heat sink has to be designed. In short the harder you drive the LED the more heat it will create and thus a better heat sinking system is required.
White LEDs typically come in 3 color temperatures advertised as cold white, neutral white, warm white. White LEDs are blue LEDs with a phosphorus coating on the inside of the lens. The phosphor disperses the blue light and creates a spread spectrum of light, which is white light. The thickness of the phosphor coating controls the color temperature, the thicker the coating the ‘warmer’ the color temperature. Also the thicker the coating the lesser the light output. For example a cold white is capable of 180 lumens and a warm white is capable of 110 lumens.
An interesting fact about the human eye is that it requires a 1.6 times increase in light output before the light intensity change is perceived.
The neat function with LEDs is they come in a variety of color and those colors can be mixed to make millions of different colors. This is called additive color mixing; the opposite is called subtractive color mixing. An example of this is using a colored filter in from of a white light.
LEDs are controlled with a method called pulse width modulation PWM. This method controls the on time of the LED which the human eye perceives as light intensity. This is how an LED is dimmed.
I’ll get a bit more technical so those of you experimenting with LEDs will be more informed. 
Both the electrical and photometric properties of an LED are NOT linear. What does that mean? Electrically an LED is a diode. A simplified way to look at a diode is its resistance varies with the voltage you place across it. The relationship between the forward resistance and voltage is exponential which means small incremental changes in voltage will lead to big changes in forward resistance. As the voltage is increased the diode resistance DECREASES and more current flow through the LED. 

More current does equal more light output but it also equals more HEAT. As the LED heats it becomes less and less efficient as its internal crystal structure becomes more distorted from the heating. (this structure is what scientist are trying to perfect)
Heat dissipation determines the life of the LED. Without proper heat removal an LED that is rated for 50000 hours may only last 1000 hours.
Also light output is affected by heat. The hotter the LED the more its output will drop.
So to make a proper high output LED lighting fixture requires the proper design of heat a dissipation system.
I remember 2 years ago I was in a meeting with one of our suppliers who was working with Aston Martin, who, at the time wanted to make a full LED head lamp system and realized the only way to deal with the heat produced by the LEDs was to connect the heat sink to the AC system. 
If you guys have any questions about LED lighting systems feel free to ask. We’ve been playing with LEDs for a while and they are the stepping stone for the future of lighting. OLEDs are the next generation for those following this technology.


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## dll932 (Jul 4, 2008)

Seems like Pilot is making conventional looking LED fogs (JC Whitney carries them). Unfortunately, like most fog/driving lights, one doesn't know how they perform til you install them. They're only about US$70, BTW. Wonder if they use Cree or Luxeon LED'S?


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## colorblade (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: (dll932)*

I just looked at those units and don't see much heatsinking so there probably isn't much output, unless there are a lot of fins on the back which aren't shown in the picture. Also refelectors are not as efficient as the lenses designed for LEDs. I will buy one and measure it.
Does anyone else know of companies making LED fog lights? I can shoot them into my integrating sphere to see how much light actually exits the fixture.


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## dll932 (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (colorblade)*

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered a pair-JCW offered a small discount on the order.









I want to convert as much of the lighting on my car to LED as possible for 
1) the faster response time.
2) Not having to replace bulbs
3) Lower load on the alternator, thus maybe a little more economy.
Also, my ol' rice burner has no daytime running lights.
Anyhow, if they light up my peripheral vision nearby and make me easier to see, I'll be happy. There are a raft of those egg-shaped fogs that quartz bulbs that aren't that good, and I can't afford Piaas, etc. I will report when I get them.


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## dll932 (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (dll932)*

























Well, here's pix. They're smaller than I expected: 3 5/8w x 1 7/8h x 2d. Looks like polycarbonate bodies and lenses, weigh nearly nothing.
Shooting one at my garage door from about 13' I got a beam 3.5' wide. Running both, the amp draw was only .45! Prewired with snap connectors and wire that was maybe 20ga. Can't tell exact brightness, but I would say "quite."









The emitters look like Cree or Luxeon as far as I can see through the rippled sides of the lenses-color is white, very little blue.
OK, so they're not as wide-beamed as my old Bosch Compasses, but the cutoff is sharp. I think they'll fit my stated purposes.


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## paul_shark (Aug 15, 2001)

Wow, I'm very suprised... definitely post some pics of the beam pattern once you have them installed. Do you have access to a tripod?


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## dll932 (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (paul_shark)*

Beam pattern is the middle picture. I dunno, maybe they're NOT Cree or Luxeon emitters, but they must be something similar. The beam pic is unaltered, that's about the way it looked.


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## UAflyer (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: LEDs*

I have played with a lot of LEDs and to some extent you just don't know what you will get. Some are not as bright as stock, while others don't l always have great dispersion.
Money by no means is any better measure of quality or performance here than the claimed LUX, Watt or other measurement. Brand sorta helps, but not for sure either.
Since its not a NASCAR sponsor, what do the girls have to do with colorblade LEDs








So if someone tries these, please let us know the results.

_Modified by UAflyer at 8:01 PM 7-17-2008_


_Modified by UAflyer at 8:02 PM 7-17-2008_


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## paul_shark (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (dll932)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dll932* »_Beam pattern is the middle picture. I dunno, maybe they're NOT Cree or Luxeon emitters, but they must be something similar. The beam pic is unaltered, that's about the way it looked.

I'd be helpful to see the beam pattern on the road once they're installed. Taken with a non-cell phone camera http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dll932 (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (paul_shark)*

Will do as soon as I have time to install them. That's a cropped 4 megapixel shot, BTW-that's what it looked like. I purposely didn't apply any other correction.
It would be nice if they threw wider both horizontally and vertically, but my main concern is to be seen on a car that doesn't have daytime running lights without using much juice.


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## dll932 (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (dll932)*

No installed beam pic yet, but these must not have Cree or Luxeon emitters because they just don't get hot. I wired 'em in so they turn on with the ignatz because they take so little juice. 
If you're expecting real wide throw fogs, these aren't it, but they do what I want so far.


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## mattchurchill (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: High power LED fog lamps (tiptronic)*

yeah um
freakin sweet LED's
where can i get some
(kind of in Sydney, so could be a problem)
but if you can help, it would be thoroughly appreciated
thanks


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## VWengineered (Jul 22, 2008)

*Re: High power LED fog lamps (tiptronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tiptronic* »_
These are custom made with hi-flux LEDs- white. Stay away from those RGB leds (multicolor). The ones in my pics are purewhite- neutral white (not ''cool white"- bluish hue, nor "warm"-yellowish hue.
Hence, with their brightness and wide angle view- i'm able to use them as ''DRLs" under bright daylight.
e

what was the mcd rating on the high-flux leds you used? Im trying to make a custom set for my golf and was wondering what level of output i would need to be seen in the daytime.


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## Slalom (Jun 25, 2002)

I saw these recently... figured i would post them since they are similar to what you guys are talking about
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/5/6/6


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