# If I wanted to get 240ish hp/tq from my 2.5 while staying N/A,how do I go about it?



## GoHomeBroke (Nov 15, 2014)

cams? crank? internals?

i'm aware of what i would have to do to other parts to even get it to put that to the road. my issue is forced induction. is it really necessary to get 240 hp/tq ball park?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

if you have a manual transmission, 220ish at the crank (not at the wheels) just needs SRI, CAI, Exhaust, Test Pipe, Tune if i'm not mistaken.

cams, cranks, or internals are not needed for this build.

if you have an automatic, you can't reach these numbers due to the rev limitations on the automatic transmission.


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

IE did ~230bhp with high compression pistons and 270bhp with a build high comp. motor (pistons, rods, cams, P&P head, etc..). Some where in there you will find your 240 (assuming 240bhp). If you want more than the 220bhp, which comes with an SRI + tune, you need high compression or boost. Boost is definitely your highest ratio of hp per dollar but if you have the money to go all motor IE are the ones to talk to. NLS also did an ITB build that might put you in that area but I don't know much about it. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Here's what you need to make ~230bhp from the 2.5l:

- 12:1 compression
- Short runner intake manifold
- Custom ECU tune (likely from IE since they make the 12:1 parts)
- 2.5" Exhaust System
- High-flow cat
- EVO Header [speculated]

That being said - and I hate to be the bearer of bad news - but right now no short runner intake manifold exists that will fit your particular 2.5l. This is because your MK6 Jetta has a power steering pump that interferes with the manifold. Without an SRI, you'll come nowhere near your target number.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Forced induction is your most cost effective way to reach those numbers though you don't want to go that route


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## Boyso (Nov 24, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Here's what you need to make ~230bhp from the 2.5l:
> 
> - 12:1 compression
> - Short runner intake manifold
> ...




It's been talked to death on the fb group, but there is a MK6 jetta with a IE SRI.










Not mine, but done by a local shop.


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## SilverTrek12v (Dec 28, 2005)

Boyso said:


> It's been talked to death on the fb group, but there is a MK6 jetta with a IE SRI.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That mk6 Jetta Unix cut/angled the SRI runners/ flange to improve fitment and the PS braket was also modified.


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## Boyso (Nov 24, 2013)

Yup. With money, everything is possible


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## karlsvw (Oct 25, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Here's what you need to make ~230bhp from the 2.5l:
> 
> - 12:1 compression
> - Short runner intake manifold
> ...


So when you say "nowhere near" without the SRI, what are we talking? All I see is normal "Hot Rodding" stuff here. And how much is that ECU tune worth? Or is that just to deal with the increased air flow?


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

karlsvw said:


> So when you say "nowhere near" without the SRI, what are we talking? All I see is normal "Hot Rodding" stuff here. And how much is that ECU tune worth? Or is that just to deal with the increased air flow?


The SRI manifold itself ads ~40bhp over stock. 12:1 compression yields an additional ~30bhp. However, in order to raise the compression, you need the SRI manifold. Without either of these modifications present, you're losing out on ~70bhp peak horsepower. So when I say nowhere near, you're truly nowhere near.

For power steering pump equipped 2.5ls and/or Tiptronic transmission models, your best bet is to add an intake and tune first. A catback exhaust doesn't do much in terms of power and is the more expensive than the tune + intake, but it sounds *so* good. USP's test pipe/high-flow cat is nice too, but it's going to make it tough to pass emissions in States that have strict testing methods. 

Member jaja123 has a dyno of his 2010 2.5l with intake, tune, exhaust and test pipe which shows he made 167*w*hp. If you want to use a generic drivetrain loss of 15%, that puts his crank horsepower around ~190. Again, nowhere close to 240hp.


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## Phillip J Fry (Jun 23, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> The SRI manifold itself ads ~40bhp over stock. 12:1 compression yields an additional ~30bhp. However, in order to raise the compression, you need the SRI manifold. Without either of these modifications present, you're losing out on ~70bhp peak horsepower. So when I say nowhere near, you're truly nowhere near.
> 
> *For power steering pump equipped 2.5ls* and/or Tiptronic transmission models, your best bet is to add an intake and tune first. A catback exhaust doesn't do much in terms of power and is the more expensive than the tune + intake, but it sounds *so* good. USP's test pipe/high-flow cat is nice too, but it's going to make it tough to pass emissions in States that have strict testing methods.
> 
> Member jaja123 has a dyno of his 2010 2.5l with intake, tune, exhaust and test pipe which shows he made 167*w*hp. If you want to use a generic drivetrain loss of 15%, that puts his crank horsepower around ~190. Again, nowhere close to 240hp.



I am unaware of any 2.5L with hydraulic steering. I thought they were all electro-mechanical. Could you elaborate, thanks.


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

Phillip J Fry said:


> I am unaware of any 2.5L with hydraulic steering. I thought they were all electro-mechanical. Could you elaborate, thanks.


All mk6 Jettas and the later year golfs. I can't remember exactly what years for the golf but its something like '13+.


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Phillip J Fry said:


> I am unaware of any 2.5L with hydraulic steering. I thought they were all electro-mechanical. Could you elaborate, thanks.


Cars *without *power steering pump:
2005.5-2009 MK5 Rabbit/Jetta 2.5l models
2010-2014 MK6 Golf 2.5l models
2009-2014 Jetta Sportwagen 2.5l models

Cars *with *power steering pump:
2011-2014 MK6 Jetta 2.5l models
2012-2014 B7 Passat 2.5l models


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## Phillip J Fry (Jun 23, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Cars *without *power steering pump:
> 2005.5-2009 MK5 Rabbit/Jetta 2.5l models
> 2010-2014 MK6 Golf 2.5l models
> 2009-2014 Jetta Sportwagen 2.5l models
> ...





mk6matt said:


> All mk6 Jettas and the later year golfs. I can't remember exactly what years for the golf but its something like '13+.


Thank you gentleman.


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## karlsvw (Oct 25, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> The SRI manifold itself ads ~40bhp over stock. 12:1 compression yields an additional ~30bhp. However, in order to raise the compression, you need the SRI manifold. Without either of these modifications present, you're losing out on ~70bhp peak horsepower. So when I say nowhere near, you're truly nowhere near.
> 
> For power steering pump equipped 2.5ls and/or Tiptronic transmission models, your best bet is to add an intake and tune first. A catback exhaust doesn't do much in terms of power and is the more expensive than the tune + intake, but it sounds *so* good. USP's test pipe/high-flow cat is nice too, but it's going to make it tough to pass emissions in States that have strict testing methods.
> 
> Member jaja123 has a dyno of his 2010 2.5l with intake, tune, exhaust and test pipe which shows he made 167*w*hp. If you want to use a generic drivetrain loss of 15%, that puts his crank horsepower around ~190. Again, nowhere close to 240hp.


Is the stock intake THAT restrictive??? For a motor only displacing 151 cubes, a ~40 hp bump with just a intake change seems huge! And a ~30 hp bump with a 2.5 point comp increase?? You know more than I do about these motors but I just find the numbers hard to believe. It makes me wonder how much VW left on the table with the 2.5. They could have had a real screamer and sell more cars!


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

karlsvw said:


> Is the stock intake THAT restrictive??? For a motor only displacing 151 cubes, a ~40 hp bump with just a intake change seems huge! And a ~30 hp bump with a 2.5 point comp increase?? You know more than I do about these motors but I just find the numbers hard to believe. It makes me wonder how much VW left on the table with the 2.5. They could have had a real screamer and sell more cars!


The stock intake is not restrictive, it's just simply engineered to produce low-end power at the expensive of high rpm thrills. The average consumer isn't going to rev their engine past 7,000-rpm to make peak power.

The numbers I speak of are real - see here


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## karlsvw (Oct 25, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> The stock intake is not restrictive, it's just simply engineered to produce low-end power at the expensive of high rpm thrills. The average consumer isn't going to rev their engine past 7,000-rpm to make peak power.
> 
> The numbers I speak of are real - see here


Interesting. 

I don't mind revving once in awhile but, what would you suggest is the best way to improve power in the 2,500-5,500 rpm range and keep it N/A? I am very mechanically inclined and would have no issue installing a turbo but, I don't want to spend thousands. If I got to 190-200 hp, I'd be happy.


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

karlsvw said:


> ... what would you suggest is the best way to improve power in the 2,500-5,500 rpm range and keep it N/A? I am very mechanically inclined and would have no issue installing a turbo but, I don't want to spend thousands. If I got to 190-200 hp, I'd be happy.


Check the dyno posted by me a few comments back - intake, tune, exhaust and test pipe yields _approximately _190 horsepower in 2009+ 2.5ls. Whether or not there's a tune for your Passat is unknown to me (never checked).



me earlier in this thread said:


> Member jaja123 has a dyno of his 2010 2.5l with intake, tune, exhaust and test pipe which shows he made 167*w*hp. If you want to use a generic drivetrain loss of 15%, that puts his crank horsepower around ~190. ...


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## FRANK_N (Jan 15, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> The SRI manifold itself ads ~40bhp over stock.





[email protected] said:


> Cars *with *power steering pump:
> 2011-2014 MK6 Jetta 2.5l models
> 2012-2014 B7 Passat 2.5l models





karlsvw said:


> Is the stock intake THAT restrictive???





[email protected] said:


> The stock intake is not restrictive, it's just simply engineered to produce low-end power at the expensive of high rpm thrills. The average consumer isn't going to rev their engine past 7,000-rpm to make peak power.


Testing has shown the stock intake manifold in the 170bhp engines is very good for natural aspiration -- so long as you are living within the stock rev limits. To reach the wheel horsepower figures you want, the engine and ECU must be modified for much higher speeds. That's how you get horsepower on NA motors. You spin them up to high revs.


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Here's what you need to make ~230bhp from the 2.5l:
> 
> - 12:1 compression
> - Short runner intake manifold
> ...



Are there any Dynos without the compression, i guess just full bolt-ons? Also, wouldn't a clutch kit help with bringing more wheel HP (assuming not much)?

I guess a more realistic build for could be:
- SRI
- Evo Header
- CBE
- Lightweight FW
- ECU Tune


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## [email protected] (Jun 11, 2014)

One of our customers made 197 whp (around 225 crank hp)on our in-house "heart breaker" Dynojet 248c with his 2.5L Rabbit:


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## dasJERMAN (Apr 27, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> One of our customers made 197 whp (around 225 crank hp)on our in-house "heart breaker" Dynojet 248c with his 2.5L Rabbit:


Any word on what mods he is running?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

dasJERMAN said:


> Any word on what mods he is running?


Taken from the YouTube description:



YouTube said:


> Mods include C2 Motorsports Intake Manifold and Software, USP Testpipe, Carbonio Intake, EVO Headers and more.


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## Sean mk6 (Dec 11, 2015)

Where can you get EVO headers? I havent heard of them before....

People getting 190whp out of the 2.5, is it the early Rabbit engine or the late Golf engine? And they are changing compression just to get to 190 or was that off of bolt-ons+ tune?


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

Sean mk6 said:


> Where can you get EVO headers? I havent heard of them before....
> 
> People getting 190whp out of the 2.5, is it the early Rabbit engine or the late Golf engine? And they are changing compression just to get to 190 or was that off of bolt-ons+ tune?


Looks like they're down in TX - http://www.evolutiontuning.com/evoheaders25DOHC20V.htm


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## AHouseOnFire (Nov 20, 2012)

frostydub said:


> Looks like they're down in TX - http://www.evolutiontuning.com/evoheaders25DOHC20V.htm



$1,100


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

AHouseOnFire said:


> $1,100


High quality, hand made pieces aren't cheap. It's been proven time and again that this is the only exhaust manifold worth spending your hard earned money on. Cheap, Chinese knock-offs just make noise, whereas this manifold actually makes power across the entire rev range.


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## AHouseOnFire (Nov 20, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> High quality, hand made pieces aren't cheap. It's been proven time and again that this is the only exhaust manifold worth spending your hard earned money on. Cheap, Chinese knock-offs just make noise, whereas this manifold actually makes power across the entire rev range.


I don't doubt that.. Its insanely beautiful that is for sure


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