# Ugly Cold starts PLUS weird engine stutters at high speeds...



## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

How's it going guys -- Don't know much about cars here so please bare with me....

My car:
2008 A3 2.0T FWD
Miles - About 46k
APR Stage 2
APR TBE V2
Carbonio CAI
Revision D DV
All other Internals are Stock

My Problems: ......Cold Starts, Some mornings my cold starts are just brutal I live in SE PA so right now the average morning is anywhere from like 10-40 degrees. They car ALWAYS turns over first crank but 95% of the time its very clunky and violent. My PCV was seized up or something like that....which I did replace but it changed nothing. This has been present before all of my aftermarket parts. I have no idea what it could be....

In addition....this morning was really the first time I took my car over 100 with my APR tune ....yeah believe it lol I have had the tune for about 3 weeks or so...Anyways....angered at the annoying traffic caused by a stupid accident I took off as soon as I could - Cant remember what gear I was in but probably 4th... at about 90-110 my car began to stutter or like pulse...it was nothing extremely violent but definitely noticeable. This was the first time it had ever happened and had never happened before my tune. I slowed down to about 85 and the stutters stopped. 

Coil Pack?
Spark Plugs??
Boost Solenoid?

daaa fuuuuqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq???


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## lausch (Mar 29, 2002)

Your cold start issue could be intake valve carbon build up. Fairly common on the 2.0T FSI (less common on the TFSI), though with only 46,000 miles that would seem premature.

How many RPM's is the 2.0T turning in 4th gear at 110 mph? Are we anywhere near the rev limiter, even with the APR tune?

Brian


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

I have heard a lot of people suggesting the carbon build up but at 46k? hard to believe. I don't have the skills, knowledge or time to do it myself either and from my understanding it is a very pricey job for a dealer.

and to be honest I couldn't tell you off hand but I'm pretty sure it's nowhere near the limiter. I know what the limiter feels and sounds like so I don't think I could has mistaken it as that.

Thanks,
Anthony


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Coil packs are a distinct possibility.

Don't count out carbon build up. There's been a few who have had serious carbon build up issues at less miles than you have.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

MisterJJ said:


> Coil packs are a distinct possibility.
> 
> Don't count out carbon build up. There's been a few who have had serious carbon build up issues at less miles than you have.


Coil packs in relation to which problem?

I'll keep you guys updated if the stutter persists. I will try and find space on the drive home from work today


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## sfdxsm (Feb 18, 2012)

Did you pull any codes? This is EXACTLY what my car does (APR stage 1) and I pulled the codes with vagcom. I can't remember the log (on my laptop right now) but the code indicates it's either the HPFP (common failure) or the fuel sending unit. 

I'll look later on the exact fault code but same deal. Extremely cold starts - starts just fine but runs like crap. Pulses, bucks like bad coils, sort of cuts out until it warms up. Like you said, it's violent. I usually get EPC light with mine though indicating a problem.

Otherwise it's fine in better temps.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

sfdxsm said:


> Did you pull any codes? This is EXACTLY what my car does (APR stage 1) and I pulled the codes with vagcom. I can't remember the log (on my laptop right now) but the code indicates it's either the HPFP (common failure) or the fuel sending unit.
> 
> I'll look later on the exact fault code but same deal. Extremely cold starts - starts just fine but runs like crap. Pulses, bucks like bad coils, sort of cuts out until it warms up. Like you said, it's violent. I usually get EPC light with mine though indicating a problem.
> 
> Otherwise it's fine in better temps.


Don't have access to vagcom right now but i have no CEL or EPC light. I used to have CEL for cat efficiency (TBE without tune) -- now with tune that's gone and I have no pretty lights.

Your case seems more severe then mine. With my cold starts its only when I start the car. I normally let it warm for like 5 mins at least which doesn't even move my temp gauge but once i get rolling she is perfectly fine. 

could it be pushing codes without throwing a light? Idk how all the works


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Vishio said:


> could it be pushing codes without throwing a light?


Yes. Bad coil packs will get misfires that will be in the log but no CEL.


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## tiptronic (Apr 18, 1999)

Could it be your N80 valve or evap system?

http://forums.fourtitude.com/search.php?searchid=27893401


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

tiptronic said:


> Could it be your N80 valve or evap system?
> 
> http://forums.fourtitude.com/search.php?searchid=27893401


link doesn't work. and i have no idea what they are lol care to explain?




Also, on my way home from work did a pull from 6th 75 to 125 at 110 its started to stutter or like pulse then i let off at 125. I was focused on the road lol so i wasn't paying much attention to rpms to see if they were fluctuating with the pulses. idk you can really only feel it i dont think it makes any weird noises but its hard to hear over my exhaust. I also did a pull from 4th and hit about 110 with no pulses or stutters --and to answer your rev limiter question at 110 in 4th you are very close to it i think i was around 6.5k much closer then i thought


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

just a little update, did a hard pull from 2nd and the stutters happened. It almost feels like a sudden lose of boost I don't have a gauge so i cant tell for sure. It also makes my exhaust "fart" if that makes any sense.....like a sudden burst of air out of it.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Have you checked your HPFP/cam follower/cam lobe?


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Please respond


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## P0299 (Mar 18, 2012)

*I concur*

After I got my stage 2 my coil packs started acting up (on the way home). It was fine for the first 1-20 miles and then it started to miss between 70-100 MPH smoothed out at 100 and came back at 125. I stopped to get some food and scan for codes (didn't have my VAG-COM just a generic tester) and there where no codes (no MIL either). I did a few hard launches and it missed violently. I changed my plugs first and there was no improvement, then I changed my coil packs and it went away. My coil packs were already replaced under warranty (don't remember the revision) but I'd start there as well.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

TBomb said:


> Have you checked your HPFP/cam follower/cam lobe?


 Have not checked them, I actually am not smart enough to check any of this haha, but when I take t he dealer I wanna have atleast some insight on what it could be. 

But if any of these things can be easily checked please explain cause I can always attempt.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

P0299 said:


> After I got my stage 2 my coil packs started acting up (on the way home). It was fine for the first 1-20 miles and then it started to miss between 70-100 MPH smoothed out at 100 and came back at 125. I stopped to get some food and scan for codes (didn't have my VAG-COM just a generic tester) and there where no codes (no MIL either). I did a few hard launches and it missed violently. I changed my plugs first and there was no improvement, then I changed my coil packs and it went away. My coil packs were already replaced under warranty (don't remember the revision) but I'd start there as well.


 I'm starting to lean towards coil packs. I atleast know where they are located so I think I could check them. Any easy way to determine if they are bad?


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Okay I know no one probably cares about this anymore if they did at all...but I'm happy to say the weird engine stutters have disappeared....knock on wood. Ugly cold starts are still present but it doesn't seem to be much of a problem and I'm not really worried about it. 

Could the stutters just have been a result of really terrible gas? I may have had 92 running in 93 mode but I have no way of remember if I had 92 in at that time and I only used 92 for maybe 2 tanks since my tune. So who knows....I don't have the knowledge or resources to diagnose any of this myself and its just to much of a hassle taking it to the dealer since they cannot loan me a car until I'm 21....3 more months to go! :beer:

Anyways, Thanks!


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## steve111b (Jun 2, 2011)

I have noticed problems with engine performance with one tank of no name gas. I stick with major brands. You can try an injector cleaner (Audi sells it) or get a throttle body cleaning. Every season I pay extra for one or two tanks of higher quality gas.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

steve111b said:


> I have noticed problems with engine performance with one tank of no name gas. I stick with major brands. You can try an injector cleaner (Audi sells it) or get a throttle body cleaning. Every season I pay extra for one or two tanks of higher quality gas.


I normally stick with Sunoco 93 but sometimes for whatever reason it is I need to use a no name 93 for example "the getty" its called lol WAWA doesn't carry 93 other then that I would always use them. Do you even know what a WAWA is?(Yes your supposed to sing that line like the bloodhound gang song) north east thing.....probably the greatest gas station ever created. 

AP Tuning said running 92 octane in 93 mode would be fine in the winter but not in the summer. I'm thinking I was running some really bad 92 and under heavy load I was asking to much. I have no idea if that makes any sense or if it would cause problems like this though.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

The sh1t storm is back. Hard pulls with stutters. Still no lights, i know its kinda pointless for me to update this when i haven't even done anything to attempt to fix it lol. but I may just brake down and get new coil packs and plugs.

My dealer will overcharge the sh1t out of me just to figure it out. and coil packs seem to always go after a tune. 

what needs to happen for the coil packs to actually throw a CEL? Total malfunction?

With that being said. Any suggestions on better coil packs and plugs?


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

just so you know...i had CB at 20k miles. i had uneven/rough idle on cold start-ups which, eventually, led to misfires. dealership replaced coils but still had uneven/rough idle and misfires. dealership then did manual cleaning of intake manifold. problem solved...for now.

in all that time, i only had 1 CEL. after the coils were replaced, it didn't throw a CEL but the dealership could see misfires were logged. i guess, just not enough misfires were logged to throw a CEL.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

pjunk1 said:


> just so you know...i had CB at 20k miles. i had uneven/rough idle on cold start-ups which, eventually, led to misfires. dealership replaced coils but still had uneven/rough idle and misfires. dealership then did manual cleaning of intake manifold. problem solved...for now.
> 
> in all that time, i only had 1 CEL. after the coils were replaced, it didn't throw a CEL but the dealership could see misfires were logged. i guess, just not enough misfires were logged to throw a CEL.


See my idles are fine after start up, It never misfires while idling. It may be misfiring at start up but there is so much ugliness going on that I can't tell. 

A manual carbon cleaning is in my near future I believe  I'm just a little scared at what the price is going to be.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

its either a fuel cuts from injector issues or HPFP issues, or maybe you just need new spark plugs...try the plugs first then work from there


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Rub-ISH said:


> its either a fuel cuts from injector issues or HPFP issues, or maybe you just need new spark plugs...try the plugs first then work from there


Recommendation on plugs? Or just another set of OEM?


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## rambag3 (May 17, 2006)

Vishio said:


> Recommendation on plugs? Or just another set of OEM?


Bernardiparts 

This is about as cheap as they come, OEM audi coil packs. ECS tuning sells them too, I got them from ECS but I wanted the red ones. See below:



Also I had the same problems as you but I had a CEL, 2 packs were bad so I replaced all 4.
Lastly my n80 valve was replaced too, very easy to do. I did it as bad starts can be related to this part and its so damn cheap that why not.


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## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

Canada sucks.... I just bought 2 coils at VW and they still charged me 45$...EACH!!! I called all the VW dealers near me and the price was still the same... You would think they would be nice enough to drop the price considering the amount of epic fails with the cylinders.... :banghead:

Now I'm gonna end up having to clean out the intake valves when the weather clears...


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

Vishio said:


> See my idles are fine after start up, It never misfires while idling. It may be misfiring at start up but there is so much ugliness going on that I can't tell.
> 
> A manual carbon cleaning is in my near future I believe  I'm just a little scared at what the price is going to be.


i had the same fear since i'm pretty certain i'll need it after the warranty runs out. my local shop told me about $250-300 depending on how much build up there is. this shop hooks me up so maybe that's a good price compared to other places. 

good luck.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

pjunk1 said:


> i had the same fear since i'm pretty certain i'll need it after the warranty runs out. my local shop told me about $250-300 depending on how much build up there is. this shop hooks me up so maybe that's a good price compared to other places.
> 
> good luck.


I heard way more then that. I had like your prices lol


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

rambag3 said:


> Bernardiparts
> 
> This is about as cheap as they come, OEM audi coil packs. ECS tuning sells them too, I got them from ECS but I wanted the red ones. See below:
> 
> ...



Thanks, I may just got with ECS's package with spark plugs and the Karlyn coil packs and might just throw in the N80 valve for Sh1ts and giggles. But I don't like replacing things if i don't have to.


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## rambag3 (May 17, 2006)

Vishio said:


> Thanks, I may just got with ECS's package with spark plugs and the Karlyn coil packs and might just throw in the N80 valve for Sh1ts and giggles. But I don't like replacing things if i don't have to.


The N80 may just be your problem and the 5 minutes it takes to do + the cheapness of the part to buy its a no brainer. Install it with your car cold and then start the car and see if it still has issues.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

The best plugs for a tuned 2.0t are the NGK BRK7EIX's its a iridium plug that is 1 step colder than stock... giving the ecu more room to adjust timing


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## rambag3 (May 17, 2006)

Rub-ISH said:


> The best plugs for a tuned 2.0t are the NGK BRK7EIX's its a iridium plug that is 1 step colder than stock... giving the ecu more room to adjust timing


Do they come gapped, and how easy is the install?


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

rambag3 said:


> Do they come gapped, and how easy is the install?


Yes, they come gapped, and you should not try to re-gap the Iridium plugs as the electrode can be quite brittle and break.

It's super easy. Unclip the wiring harness from all of the coil packs, make a loop from a decent size zip tie and hook it under a coil pack, pull straight up and lift the coil pack up out of the head. Use a spark plug specific socket (it has a rubber section designed to grab hold of the plug so it doesn't get stuck in the head) and an extension and remove the spark plug, being careful not to let any debris fall into the combustion chamber. It helps to clean around the coil packs before you remove them, if your engine is dirty. Put the new spark plug in the socket and thread it in finger-tight, then it's usually only like 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn beyond that. You do not need to put them in very tight or you risk the chance of them getting stuck. Put the coil pack back in, and once you've done all 4 hook the harness back up, and you're done. :thumbup:


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

wow lots of good info guys, I think what i will do is first replace the N80 Valve and spark plugs. I'm at almost 50k and have no idea when they were changed so i might as well do that. .....if all that fails i'll order new coil packs.

If all the fails....I'll get a carbon cleaning. 

finally if all that fails, I will buy a prius...........in bright yellow....with sun flower rims


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

anyone got a link to a DIY for the N80 valve? cant find one for an a3 on the internets 

or someone just wanna do a quick run down?


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## lausch (Mar 29, 2002)

*N80 Valve Replacement*



Vishio said:


> anyone got a link to a DIY for the N80 valve? cant find one for an a3 on the internets or someone just wanna do a quick run down?


It's pretty straightforward though there is debate regarding how difficult it is to get the clamps off and the old valve free of the hoses. I bookmarked this thread. I have a new N80 valve...just waiting for a nice warm day to replace it along with my diverter valve.

Brian


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

lausch said:


> It's pretty straightforward though there is debate regarding how difficult it is to get the clamps off and the old valve free of the hoses. I bookmarked this thread. I have a new N80 valve...just waiting for a nice warm day to replace it along with my diverter valve.
> 
> Brian


Thanks man, and its this little do hicker right?

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Engine/Emissions/Valve/ES281033/


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## lausch (Mar 29, 2002)

Vishio said:


> Thanks man, and its this little do hicker right?
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Engine/Emissions/Valve/ES281033/


That's the one!


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## rambag3 (May 17, 2006)

You will need:
Flat head screwdriver
Hammer
N80 valve
2 new clamps (optional but recommended)

Remove the electric connection, it should come off easy like maybe a clip or something. I can check if you can't get it off.
Place flat head screwdriver on the clamp, hit driver with hammer until it brakes.
Repeat for second clamp.
Remove N80
Put new clamps on
Put on N80
Tighten clamps.
Stand back, take a sip of your beer, and admire you handy work.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

rambag3 said:


> You will need:
> Flat head screwdriver
> Hammer
> N80 valve
> ...


awesome, sounds simple enough. Is there a way to tell if the Valve is bad?


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## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

Read the 4th post... profit!

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119267


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## lausch (Mar 29, 2002)

everfresh59 said:


> http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119267


Nice find! Though a simple enough R&R, that is the most detailed writeup I have seen.

Brian


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

everfresh59 said:


> Read the 4th post... profit!
> 
> http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119267


Sweet thanks, I don't get how this could be the problem though since I'm not getting any CEL's. Everyone seems to be actually getting a code before they replace this.


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## cmercernewyork (Apr 25, 2012)

I am having it done tomorrow on my 09.... CDICARS has quoted $300 based on 3+ hours of labor. I will let you know how it works and how much... I threw a misfire code a few weeks ago and had Audi tell me I had enough carbon buildup to warrant a valve cleaning. they also charged me $280 for a seafoam like cleaning... which is why it is going to CDI this time.

symptoms are poor gas mileage (about 4 mpg less that optimal) shudders at cruising speed and rough cold start idle.


Carl


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## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

I think you should really consider having a local mechanic check your fuel pump... just like TBomb suggested earlier. It's a fairly easy thing to check, should take a mech no more than 10-20 min to check the fuel pump and cam.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Carbon build up may actually be my only problem to be honest. I think of it this way and please correct me if I'm wrong. My car is a 2008 I bought it in 2012 with only 33k miles. So IF the original owner used it as a daily but only drove a few miles a day that can lead to increased carbon build up...correct? Short drives that don't allow the engine to get hot enough to burn off the excess oil that gets into those intake valves? ....well after doing the math that's actually about 8k a year which isnt as bad as I originally thought. but still...


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Vishio said:


> Carbon build up may actually be my only problem to be honest. I think of it this way and please correct me if I'm wrong. My car is a 2008 I bought it in 2012 with only 33k miles. So IF the original owner used it as a daily but only drove a few miles a day that can lead to increased carbon build up...correct? Short drives that don't allow the engine to get hot enough to burn off the excess oil that gets into those intake valves? ....well after doing the math that's actually about 8k a year which isnt as bad as I originally thought. but still...


Short drives definitely don't help the situation, but you really never know about the whole carbon buildup thing. Some peoples valves are terrible at 20,000 miles and some people can go 80,000 with no hiccups. It's hit or miss it seems, but is definitely there to one degree or another.


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## lausch (Mar 29, 2002)

What TBomb said. There are far too many variables (e.g. driving durations, driving style, fuel quality, oil type, fuel additives, etc.) to be able to make even a general statement about how quickly carbon will build up. What is clear is that the direct injection system and the lack of intake valve washing exacerbates build up. If there was ever a subject that epitomized "YMMV," this is it.

Brian


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Interesting. Well, here's my plan.... Purge valve and spark plugs in my ECS cart as I type. I don't have time until next Saturday the 9th for any work to be done. So when the time comes I am replacing my spark plugs...the purge valve and also checking my cam follower and HPFP. also an oil change....and installing a boost gauge:thumbup:. If it rains I will punch a small child in the face.....with a hammer.:heart:

All fails i will move to karyln Coil packs(more expensive so better quality??) ......Then to a carbon cleaning.

Thanks everyone for the sh1t storm of information. I will update everyone come that Saturday night :beer:


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## cmercernewyork (Apr 25, 2012)

Vishio said:


> All fails i will move to karyln Coil packs(more expensive so better quality??) ......Then to a carbon cleaning.
> 
> Thanks everyone for the sh1t storm of information. I will update everyone come that Saturday night :beer:


Just got my carbon cleaned...  It cost $425 including all gaskets... they worked on it most of the day so that is not bad.... I have a pic the tech took but I am not quite sure how to post it... it is pretty interesting in that it is as bad as any carbon issue I have seen and it is an 09.

the car is definitely more responsive. Hard to tell if all my issues are fixed but the work needed to be done.

an interesting note... I was gouged by Audi before I could stop them... they did a "cleaning" using a liquid sucked into the manifold. The tech at CDI said he could see right where the fluid cleaned the manifold... it created a nice little path through the carbon. The result was a small amount of carbon removal what the fluid entered and it did little to nothing by the time it reached the valves. The moral of the story is... if you let the car get as bad as mine did... the fluid will not help. Audi charged me $280 for that liquid cleaning too.... man I had Audi dealerships and myself for letting it happen. Live and learn...

fyi

Carl


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

cmercernewyork said:


> Just got my carbon cleaned...  It cost $425 including all gaskets... they worked on it most of the day so that is not bad.... I have a pic the tech took but I am not quite sure how to post it... it is pretty interesting in that it is as bad as any carbon issue I have seen and it is an 09.
> 
> the car is definitely more responsive. Hard to tell if all my issues are fixed but the work needed to be done.
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks for the update. I have a bad feeling I'm going to have to do this regardless. and to top it all off I'm gonna need brakes really....really soon. so much work so little money


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

plugs and purge valve done yesterday. car seems a little smoother not really though. No signs of the stutters but I haven't pushed her yet. cold starts are still funky


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Gas mileage was a huge gain this last tank...from 260miles to around 315 and could have gone more. now i did have about 3 hours of straight highway which might have contributed. Either my car loves this rotella T6 or the purge valve has helped recoup some gas mileage. O also cleaned my air filter.....that probably helps to lol . 

Other then that Cold starts are still as ugly as ever ... Unfortunately this is pointing to Carbon IMO.

Stutters haven't been present but I haven't really tried to make them happen.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Just an update because I have gotten Pm's from people with the same problem asking if I have solved it. Answer is No lol...Other then Spark plugs and the purge valve nothing else has been changed. 

Tried to replicate the problem over the weekend and was able to with a hard pull from 4th to 5th.. started at about 75-80 mph and the stutters started relatively quick from probably 90-105 and continued in 5th gear until I let off at an unknown speed. The car accelerates but it jerks and hesitates. Boost pressure seems to be unaffected and I don't have any leaks that I can notice on a daily basis. Also picked up a vagcom cable and I'm not throwing any codes. It's gotta be something that isnt going to throw a code. what the poop!! :banghead::banghead::thumbdown:


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## tp.wannabe.s3 (May 21, 2010)

fyi guys 

parts.com is cheaper than any online retailer.


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## P0299 (Mar 18, 2012)

Change your damn coil packs. 

They were recalled in the first place. 

Then revised. 

Then revised a few more times. 

You may notice a trend.


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## carfanguy (Aug 12, 2005)

I have the same issue and I replaced almost everything like pcv,plugs and packs,diverter valve,cam follower,flux capacitor and now I'm starting to assume its due to carbon build up because I have 90 k on the car.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

carfanguy said:


> I have the same issue and I replaced almost everything like pcv,plugs and packs,diverter valve,cam follower,flux capacitor and now I'm starting to assume its due to carbon build up because I have 90 k on the car.


 
Yeah, I'm hesitant to change anything else because if it was coil packs i'm sure I would be noticing it more often and my idle would be affected. I most likely would be getting codes also. I only have 52k on my car though. but carbon is unpredictable. I'm gonna give my dealer a call and see if I can get a quote. 

Idk, It only seems to happen under HEAVY load. Daily driving you wouldn't think anything was wrong with the car.


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## P0299 (Mar 18, 2012)

P0299 said:


> After I got my stage 2 my coil packs started acting up (on the way home). It was fine for the first 1-20 miles and then it started to miss between 70-100 MPH smoothed out at 100 and came back at 125. I stopped to get some food and scan for codes (didn't have my VAG-COM just a generic tester) and there where no codes (no MIL either). I did a few hard launches and it missed violently. I changed my plugs first and there was no improvement, then I changed my coil packs and it went away. My coil packs were already replaced under warranty (don't remember the revision) but I'd start there as well.


 I posted this in January. Notice NO CODES, NO MIL. The coil pack recall had already been performed, changed the packs again no problems since, I drive my car over 150 MPH every single day on the way to work and have 87,xxx miles on it now and have not done a carbon cleaning yet.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

P0299 said:


> I posted this in January. Notice NO CODES, NO MIL. The coil pack recall had already been performed, changed the packs again no problems since, I drive my car over 150 MPH every single day on the way to work and have 87,xxx miles on it now and have not done a carbon cleaning yet.


 What coil packs did you end up going with? OEM or Karlyns?


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

P0299 said:


> I posted this in January. Notice NO CODES, NO MIL. The coil pack recall had already been performed, changed the packs again no problems since, I drive my car over 150 MPH every single day on the way to work and have 87,xxx miles on it now and have not done a carbon cleaning yet.


 You top out over 150 MPH daily? :screwy:


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

TBomb said:


> You top out over 150 MPH daily? :screwy:


 Sssshhhhhh... He's sleep-typing. (_don't want to spoil them dreams!!!)_ 

Back on topic though... 

I had shuddery cold starts... and bogging. 

It was carbon.


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## P0299 (Mar 18, 2012)

Vishio said:


> What coil packs did you end up going with? OEM or Karlyns?


 latest revision OEM


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## P0299 (Mar 18, 2012)

VWAddict said:


> Sssshhhhhh... He's sleep-typing. (_don't want to spoil them dreams!!!)_
> 
> Back on topic though...
> 
> ...


 I live in Germany and my commute takes me down about 15 miles of Autobahn A7. But you are correct, I don't get over 150 every day, when it's raining or snowing I try to keep it under 110. :beer:


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## JPK_ (May 25, 2012)

Someon mentioned a 'flux capacitor' - what is this exactly?


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## tp.wannabe.s3 (May 21, 2010)

Vishio said:


> anyone got a link to a DIY for the N80 valve? cant find one for an a3 on the internets
> 
> or someone just wanna do a quick run down?


 its easy 
takes 15 min max 

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119267


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

tp.wannabe.s3 said:


> its easy
> takes 15 min max
> 
> http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119267


 Yeah i swapped this a long time ago haha


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

found a local parts guy with a set of new coils. Gonna try and get them swapped out later on today and hope for the best. 

If not I will have a set of new Ignition coils for sale!! :thumbup::beer: wish me luck


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

P0299 said:


> I live in Germany and my commute takes me down about 15 miles of Autobahn A7. But you are correct, I don't get over 150 every day, when it's raining or snowing I try to keep it under 110. :beer:


 I assume you've got the S3 or RS3 then? -A3's take quite a long run up to get over 150MPH... 

I've driven on the A7 a number of times... though not ALL of it, (what is it, about 650 miles end-to-end?) Autobahn-derived behaviour-at-speed is why I have a driveway filled with German cars.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Okay, swapped my revision D coil packs to the revision F -- Initial thoughts were much smoother acceleration....i was able to accomplish one hard launch through 4th gear with no problems .....but then all hell broke loss and there was a sh1t storm of sh1t! never saw the roads flood so fast. 

not saying problem is solved yet...I could have just gotten lucky. I'll check back after i am able to beat the sh1t out of her a few more times.


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## tp.wannabe.s3 (May 21, 2010)

part # for F revision?


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

tp.wannabe.s3 said:


> part # for F revision?


Your really gonna make me walk all the way to my car...pull off that god forsaken sh1t box of stupid and give you the part#? .........Hold please. 


I actually am just assuming its revision F because on my old ones they had a stand alone D and these had a F so I'm just assuming that was the revision letter rather then something else.


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## tp.wannabe.s3 (May 21, 2010)

dont do it, i just found it

07K905715F


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

tp.wannabe.s3 said:


> dont do it, i just found it
> 
> 07K905715F


cool, I did check the box really quick and the only uniform# i could find was UF575 which does pull it up in google.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Cars headed to the stealership this weekend for them to figure out the cold start issue. The new coil packs seem to have stopped the stutters. Unfortunately I need a loaner so the stealership is where its gotta go  :thumbdown:


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

Vishio said:


> Cars headed to the stealership this weekend for them to figure out the cold start issue. The new coil packs seem to have stopped the stutters. Unfortunately I need a loaner so the stealership is where its gotta go  :thumbdown:


i going to guess they come back with CB issue and possibly not servicing it under warranty due to your mods. 

i hope i'm wrong about the second part.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

pjunk1 said:


> i going to guess they come back with CB issue and possibly not servicing it under warranty due to your mods.
> 
> i hope i'm wrong about the second part.


I'm almost certain they will do everything they can to blame it on my mods. They come off as douche bags. Thing is.....the cold start problems were here before the mods even started!! I just never got around to getting it looked at because I wasn't 21 so they couldn't give me a loaner and unfortunately I cannot go without my car.

This mornings start up was brutal! followed by a jerky idle which settled down shortly after. I really hope it's just carbon and everything is perfect after it's cleaned. Regardless, I don't think carbon build up is covered under CPO anyways.


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

Vishio said:


> I'm almost certain they will do everything they can to blame it on my mods. They come off as douche bags. Thing is.....the cold start problems were here before the mods even started!! I just never got around to getting it looked at because I wasn't 21 so they couldn't give me a loaner and unfortunately I cannot go without my car.
> 
> This mornings start up was brutal! followed by a jerky idle which settled down shortly after. I really hope it's just carbon and everything is perfect after it's cleaned. Regardless, I don't think carbon build up is covered under CPO anyways.


that's unfortunate they come off that way. are there any other dealerships to choose from? obviously, some dealerships are better to work with than others when it comes to mods. 

you should make a video of start up with the hood up. i'm sure some might be interested in seeing what your engine is doing. 

CPO coverage, are you sure? CB is covered under regular warranty. i can't see why it wouldn't under CPO.

definitely keep us posted.


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

So has anybody mentioned the MAF?

The one on my Gti went, exact same thing was happening - ****ty cold starts, barely idle but once it warmed up it was ok.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

pjunk1 said:


> that's unfortunate they come off that way. are there any other dealerships to choose from? obviously, some dealerships are better to work with than others when it comes to mods.
> 
> you should make a video of start up with the hood up. i'm sure some might be interested in seeing what your engine is doing.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately this is the only Audi dealer that's relatively close to me and its already about 40 minutes away. It where I purchased the car also. 

A video is a good idea, when I find time...maybe Wednesday morning I will do one. 

As for the warranty the dealer told me that carbon is most likely not covered and with my mods they will probably not even consider it(although its up to audi I believe). but I'm prepared to put up a little bit of a fight. Considering this is a known issue on all MK5 FSI's. 

AND on a side note...these guys sold me a car with four tires that had flat spots which became noticeable less then a month after purchase....I don't know how I did not notice during the test drive.....anyways they only replaced 3 saying the 4th did not have a flat spot. I never pushed the issue and have been driving around for 20k miles with a flat spot on my left rear tire :/


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Ponto said:


> So has anybody mentioned the MAF?
> 
> The one on my Gti went, exact same thing was happening - ****ty cold starts, barely idle but once it warmed up it was ok.


Wouldn't that throw a code? I'm getting no pretty lights....I actually have never had pretty lights except when I was pre stage 2 my TBE caused the cat inefficiency code or whichever it is.


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

Vishio said:


> Wouldn't that throw a code? I'm getting no pretty lights....I actually have never had pretty lights except when I was pre stage 2 my TBE caused the cat inefficiency code or whichever it is.


Maybe, maybe not - it never did on my Gti. 

Do you have an oil'd intake filter? 

I would try to swap it, see if you know someones who you can borrow to just try it.


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

Vishio said:


> Unfortunately this is the only Audi dealer that's relatively close to me and its already about 40 minutes away. It where I purchased the car also.
> 
> A video is a good idea, when I find time...maybe Wednesday morning I will do one.
> 
> ...


i would definitely put up a fight since this is common with DI engines let alone, our FSI and TSI. as i mentioned before, i had CB at 20k on my TSI (no engine mods) which was covered by warranty. the dealership first tried replacing coil packs/injectors where misfires where occurring but eventually decided a manual CB cleaning was in order. sure enough, problem solved. 

i'm at 44k now and have started to get some slight rough/uneven idle at cold start-ups. no CEL yet (actually, only had one CEL at the 20k issue) but i'm going to ask them to clean at my 45k service interval. we'll see.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Ponto said:


> Maybe, maybe not - it never did on my Gti.
> 
> Do you have an oil'd intake filter?
> 
> I would try to swap it, see if you know someones who you can borrow to just try it.



Geeze why can't this be easy and just give me codes!!

Yes, I have a k&n Just recharged about 4k ago. 

Swap the MAF? If so I don't think i know anyone in my area with an A3. What other MAF's will work? I may just suggest that the dealer check all this stuff along with the intake valves....MAF, HPFP, Cam follower and lobe, and injectors. 

Just so everyone doesn't have to read the entire thread -- Plugs, coil packs and Purge valve have been changed so far.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

pjunk1 said:


> i would definitely put up a fight since this is common with DI engines let alone, our FSI and TSI. as i mentioned before, i had CB at 20k on my TSI (no engine mods) which was covered by warranty. the dealership first tried replacing coil packs/injectors where misfires where occurring but eventually decided a manual CB cleaning was in order. sure enough, problem solved.
> 
> i'm at 44k now and have started to get some slight rough/uneven idle at cold start-ups. no CEL yet (actually, only had one CEL at the 20k issue) but i'm going to ask them to clean at my 45k service interval. we'll see.


Interesting, that's good to know I can use that as leverage knowing other customers have had this problem covered under warranty.

and wow If you gotta get those cleaned every 20k that's going to be a pain. especially if they don't cover under warranty every time...... apparently its a pricey job at the stealership.


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

Vishio said:


> and wow If you gotta get those cleaned every 20k that's going to be a pain. especially if they don't cover under warranty every time...... apparently its a pricey job at the stealership.


that's exactly what i mentioned to the service writer. how can i need CB cleaning after only 20k miles? fine while i'm under warranty but what about the rest of the car's life. my indy shop that i take my car to for non warranty stuff like suspension tweaks, oil changes, etc, charges something like $250 for a cleaning. i can handle that.


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

Vishio said:


> Geeze why can't this be easy and just give me codes!!
> 
> Yes, I have a k&n Just recharged about 4k ago.
> 
> Swap the MAF? If so I don't think i know anyone in my area with an A3. What other MAF's will work? I may just suggest that the dealer check all this stuff along with the intake valves....MAF, HPFP, Cam follower and lobe, and injectors.


Haha No ****! It took me forever to figure that out on my Gti - on that i had things like coolant temp sensor was plausible to give the same effect few other ones that I forget now but it was a pain. We get spoiled by having Codes sometimes to tell us whats wrong. I know once my beetle is on the road if something goes wrong ain't nothing going to tell me what haha yay 50 year old car!


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Ponto said:


> Haha No ****! It took me forever to figure that out on my Gti - on that i had things like coolant temp sensor was plausible to give the same effect few other ones that I forget now but it was a pain. We get spoiled by having Codes sometimes to tell us whats wrong. I know once my beetle is on the road if something goes wrong ain't nothing going to tell me what haha yay 50 year old car!


ahaha seriously!! I thought having a fancy dancy car would be easy!! Something goes wrong and its supposed to magically tell you the problem....obviously not the case.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

well.....I have been taking a video every time i start up my car and of course the start ups are not nearly has bad as they normally are. but i believe its because it has been in the 60's or higher each time. 

the cold weather seems to affect the car the most. I remember now that this all started once it got cold and now its warming up again so it is not as bad. It's at its worst on a cold morning after sitting overnight. .....................idk....lol


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Ponto said:


> I know once my beetle is on the road if something goes wrong ain't nothing going to tell me what haha yay 50 year old car!


II envy you with a passion that you cannot possibly imagine. 

WANT.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

......dealer says its the nature of the beast. Apparently the cold start was fine for them. They are not even going to check my intake valves or anything. I hope the realize im not going to pay them anything......all they did was start her up and scan for codes....which i can do myself.

fuggking worthless!!! The only good thing I got out of this was driving around a 2012 Q5 for the weekend


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

Vishio said:


> ......dealer says its the nature of the beast. Apparently the cold start was fine for them. They are not even going to check my intake valves or anything. I hope the realize im not going to pay them anything......all they did was start her up and scan for codes....which i can do myself.
> 
> fuggking worthless!!! The only good thing I got out of this was driving around a 2012 Q5 for the weekend


are you serious? nature of the beast??? huh? :facepalm: wow, that dealership sucks!


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

seriously man. I swear the assistant service manager hates modifications me and my A3. he was like well with all the work done to your car my technician dosent even want to touch anything. are you kidding me? exhaust, intake, tune, boost tap and gauge and a oem rev D diverter valve.. . THAT'S IT performance wise.....and half of what i mentioned isnt even for performance!!!


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

if assistant service manager is that way towards you and your car, say you want to only deal with the service manager. or, is he worse? 

its odd how some dealerships are this way and others are way lax'd on the 'mod' issue. i guess i'm lucky. my service writer is always cool & accommodating and the shop foreman is always trying to sell me some sort of Stasis product. this dealership is probably one of the better one's i've been to in my area. for issues where ride-a-longs are necessary, the shop foreman was never too busy to jump in the car with me for a ride to help diagnosis.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Well aren't you lucky. And honestly I don't think I have ever met the manager. I went to high school with a guy who works there and I actually requested he work on my car. So I got the real story...he was going to look further into the problem when his boss came over and said no only because the car was tuned. 

So your seriously going to refuse work because the car is tuned? Fugking jack holes. AND to top it all off these queers proudly slap 2013 PA Dealer of the year stickers on their loaner cars...


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

picked up my car and talked with the assistant service manager. He said the tune voided my warranty so they didn't go any further looking into any problems because he did not want to leave me with a huge bill. sorta makes sense but how come some people can get their cars covered under warranty with a tune and i cant? its whatever i don't care anymore. the clunky starts arent even present anymore because its warm out. although the start still dosent sound perfect its kinda screetchee if you know what im attempting to say. It just sounds like a bunch of squeeky belts all at once lol....idk i give up lol I don't care anymore 

I need coil overs and wheels that's my new main concern.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Stutters are back and the clunky starts are just as bad even in the heat. had my worst one the day i got it back from the dealer.......guess It was just a coincidence. I hate this game. Gonna try and get it into a new mechanic soon but I need a car so its difficult to find a time to let it go for a weekend. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Either the new Coil packs did not fix the issue or I already blew them up....I don't know. These 2.0T FSI's blow


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

I've lost track... Did you ever get the carbon cleaning? If not... do it! Even if it's not the cause of the problem it will improve mileage and performance to get rid of the build-up.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

MisterJJ said:


> I've lost track... Did you ever get the carbon cleaning? If not... do it! Even if it's not the cause of the problem it will improve mileage and performance to get rid of the build-up.


I have not and I will. When I take it to a new shop I will have them do it. Along with checking the HPFP and Cam follower. 

I'm also starting to think it's something to do with my tune. but from my understanding these APR tunes are just straight up ECU flashes like everything's preset so how could that go wrong? Enlighten me. 

Also...if these stutters are misfires why haven't I gotten a freaking light yet? it has to have happened over 100 times! I have vag-com so if someone can tell me where to find the misfire logs that would help....then i can see if any are even being logged.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

VWAddict said:


> I had shuddery cold starts... and bogging.
> 
> It was carbon.


I'm not a gambling man, but this is where I'd put my money...

Dealer charged me $1200 for cleaning and replacement injectors... Cleaning at 3rd-party place would likely cost you in the $500 range, I'd guess...

Just so you don't get TOO hopeful about the "_$250_" that you mentioned earlier.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

VWAddict said:


> I'm not a gambling man, but this is where I'd put my money...
> 
> Dealer charged me $1200 for cleaning and replacement injectors... Cleaning at 3rd-party place would likely cost you in the $500 range, I'd guess...
> 
> Just so you don't get TOO hopeful about the "_$250_" that you mentioned earlier.


Yeah, I was quoted $300 by the guys that tuned my car but they are an hour away....not very practical. Then was quoted $400-600 based on severity by another shop which uses a walnut shell setup but they never follow up and are impossible to get your car into. I'm at a point where I don't have a very reliable, trust worthy, go to mechanic right now. Find one I must.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Vishio said:


> a very reliable, trust worthy, go to mechanic.


The only one of these I've ever heard of, could only be found within yourself.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

MisterJJ said:


> The only one of these I've ever heard of, could only be found within yourself.


I wish...I don't have the tools or knowledge.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Vishio said:


> I wish...I don't have the tools or knowledge.


Tools are cheaper than paying someone else to do it and knowledge... well... that's what DIY's are for.

But yeah, I can understand not wanting to dive into something like this. I would work on the Walnut guys. Tell them your car is having problems due to the carbon and you need to make an appointment as soon as possible... and you have cash in hand.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

MisterJJ said:


> Tools are cheaper than paying someone else to do it and knowledge... well... that's what DIY's are for.
> 
> But yeah, I can understand not wanting to dive into something like this. I would work on the Walnut guys. Tell them your car is having problems due to the carbon and you need to make an appointment as soon as possible... and you have cash in hand.


I hear yeah, just emailed those fools again also gonna call them after work.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

HOLY JESUS T1TS! Someone answered the phone!!! no way! this seriously has never happened. I'm glad I did not wait until after work...

getting it done June 8th. someone kiss me! but no seriously don't I have mono........


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

UPDATE!!! I have lovely news everyone...................................................

Okay so on my way home from a very long hot day in Maryland the car easily sat in the sun from 7:30am to 3:30pm then drove home in 95+ weather -- about an hour and a half drive for me mainly all Highway. With about 20 mins left of my drive I heard and felt a settle pop or knock immediately after I had lost ALL boost. I had nothing....turbo was not spooling or anything...absolutely nothing. So got her home.....and let me tell you...climbing a mountain with no boost was not fun. anyways....shut her off started her back up and full boost was back and vacuum was normal. The next day, I took her out for a little ride things seemed normal and then I finally got my pretty CEL's. 2 counts of P0087 and 1 count of P0234

P0087 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure: Too Low
P0234 - Boost Pressure Regulation: Limit Exceeded (Overboost Condition)

I have been attempted to just put it back into stock mode but my security PIN is the most ridiculous combo ever and just getting into it is a project. So I have been just taking it easy for the time being. Like I said early its going to the Dr's this Saturday but your input is greatly appreciated! 

Thanks!!


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Sounds like you went into limp home mode. -Did you pull over, shut off the engine, then wait a minute and then restart? -that should have got the boost back for you.

As for the fuel pressure, on a hot day with high fuel demand (climbing mountains on boost) it sounds like you may have overheated the fuel pump.

Search on that last one for more info...


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

VWAddict said:


> Sounds like you went into limp home mode. -Did you pull over, shut off the engine, then wait a minute and then restart? -that should have got the boost back for you.
> 
> As for the fuel pressure, on a hot day with high fuel demand (climbing mountains on boost) it sounds like you may have overheated the fuel pump.
> 
> Search on that last one for more info...


Well, I just finished out the rest of my ride with no boost. Once I got into the drive way I shut it off and back on and everything went back to normal.

And really overheated the fuel pump? I wasn't even pushing the car hard at all that day. The drive home I most likely average 65-70mph. and when I lost boost I was just cruising ...not even on it hard. There has to be more to this, cause if this thing is gonna overheat on every hot day I'm gonna poop my pants. 

I'm assuming the overboost was in result of the fuel pressure problem... either trying to over compensate or something and just getting thrown out of wack. But I have no idea what I'm talking about....that's just a guess lol

Also I thought Limp mode limited everything including RPM's? or is there different types of limp? because my rpm's were not limited at all I just had no boost.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Alright, Intake valves are clean and everything needed to get to them was checked and looks good. 

Car feels like new, and man is it smooth. The valves were pretty damn bad, some spots the walnut shells couldn't even get clean so they had to manually chip off the build up. The mechanic has before pics...but unfortunately no after :/ i'm gonna try and get a hold of those pictures to post them up. 

I have had no stutters since then, but my start ups are still weird. Maybe it is just the nature of the beast? Tunes make your car run lien anyways right? Car's just not calling for enough fuel for a smooth start? Dirty MAF? Who knows....don't care. 

If the stutters come back I'll post up. :thumbup:


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

The SMOOTHNESS at idle and gentle acceleration after a carbon cleaning is a true pleasure. 

I'll probably have to do mine once again before I sell the car. (Planning on keeping the car til about 200,000 miles, assuming no major issues such as DSG etc.)


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

VWAddict said:


> The SMOOTHNESS at idle and gentle acceleration after a carbon cleaning is a true pleasure.
> 
> I'll probably have to do mine once again before I sell the car. (Planning on keeping the car til about 200,000 miles, assuming no major issues such as DSG etc.)


 Dude its like I magically discovered more horsepower! The acceleration and throttle response is just so much smoother and natural feeling. 

My Vacuum on decell has even gained a -hg !! and Boost spikes have even seemed to level out. No idea if a carbon clean would even affect these things but man does the car feel great.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Yes it will. 

When all four cylinders contribute equally, the power is more uniform and less 'lumpy'. 

Given that carbon deposits can only "choke" the apertures and REDUCE power, this is why it feels more powerful. 

Earlier on, when you started running down the list of things that you'd done, it all started to point to carbon buildup to me, and that's why I started 'nudging' the thread by posting my own carbon experience. 

I paid full dealership prices, and replaced the injectors too (in case one of those was clogged... "while you're in there" kinda thing), so I paid a LOT more than you did, and it hurt to write that check... -But once I got the car back and experienced "surprise improvements" (which were really just returning back to 'factory new" all the tiny things that had been gradually getting rough, but in such tiny increments day by day that I'd never noticed the decline) -It went a great way to erasing the 'resentment' of paying so much, and made me love the car again. 

You may want to look into top tier gasoline... it's specified in the manual, and they make written reference to avoiding carbon buildup by sticking to top tier approved fuel brands... That may be bullcrap, or there may be something to it, I cannot say, but for the last 36,000 miles I've been usnig top tier exclusively, and I've kept and scanned every receipt. -On top of that, I've hand-written the odometer reading, the miles-per-tank, and the indicated MPG-per-tank on each receipt. -Every so often, I enter the data (including gas brand, gas station location, gallons-to-full, etc.) into an excel spreadsheet, which calculates the ACTUAL MPG-per-tank, and displays everything along with a clickable link to a jpeg of the scanned receipt... - ...yeah, I'm THAT anal!


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

VWAddict said:


> Yes it will.
> 
> When all four cylinders contribute equally, the power is more uniform and less 'lumpy'.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, I had a feeling it would be carbon but I was really hoping it wasn't. All in all for what I paid i'm as happy as can be. The total came to about $516 that covered labor a new gasket and the media used to perform the job (walnut shells and break cleaner) why they charged me for the use of break cleaner is beyond me lol I mean come on! they couldn't have used that much! 

As for gasoline I have stuck to Sunoco 93 different Sunoco's at times but normally the same. I mean its the offical fuel of Nascar...how could I go wrong? There is not many big name brand Gas stations around my normal commutes other then WAWA and if your from the Delaware valley/Tri state area you will know WAWA is a religion. The problem with WAWA is the highest octane they carry is 92 and I only stick with 93. Turkey Hill ..another possibly local delaware valley/Tri state area also has just began carrying 93 I think. I may try them and see how it goes. I am really anxious to see my MPG now. I was averaging 300 MPT on a regular tank of commuting without any long highway trips. When i have long highway trips (Maryland about an hour and a half or Half way across PA to my girls school 3hrs) I could normally hit about 330-350 MPT. 

Good thing is the Mechanic said that they are getting new Maintenance tools for carbon buildup. Kinda like a Seafoam but better. I can't remember the exact name... for some reason BFG comes to mind idk....to much DOOM when i was a kid. but he suggested that treatment around every 3rd oil change or 15k miles. He's thinking the price will be around $125 total and you should never have to do another full carbon clean again.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Sunoco is on the list. You should be good with that. 

-Just don't go filling it with "_bubba's racin' juice!_"


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

VWAddict said:


> Sunoco is on the list. You should be good with that.
> 
> -Just don't go filling it with "_bubba's racin' juice!_"


 no offense but If I saw Bubba's racin' juice I would seriously stop and fill up.......Just because


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

:laugh:


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

VWAddict said:


> You may want to look into top tier gasoline...


 Haven't we been through this before... about a dozen times. 

Top tier gas does nothing for carbon build up on valves because the gas gets injected directly into the combustion chamber, bypassing the valves entirely.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

..And if you read what I wrote, I am not declaring it to be either right OR wrong. 

I am merely reporting that it is in the manual and that they specifically make reference to carbon buildup. -I believe it may even be the ONLY reference in the manual as a cause for carbon buildup. It's on something like page 266 I think (from memory), -and I did say: 



> That may be bullcrap, or there may be something to it, I cannot say


 So, with that in mind absolutely everything I wrote is 100% correct. 

Go on, find fault with it. I'm spotless, snow-white, Teflon, super-clean.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

> Go on, find fault with it. I'm spotless, snow-white, Teflon, super-clean.


 This. :thumbup:


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

VWAddict said:


> Go on, find fault with it. I'm spotless, snow-white, Teflon, super-clean.


 To quote your other thread... 



VWAddict said:


> -What a complete and absolute DUMBASS I am!


  

IMHO, using top tier gas falls a lot closer to the "may be bullcrap" category than the "may be something to it". There's been a few people with severe build up and they've stated something like; "How could this happen... I always use top tier fuel".


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## pjunk1 (May 13, 2010)

MisterJJ said:


> To quote your other thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 As mentioned earlier I had CB and manual cleaning, new coils and new injectors covered under warranty at 20k. My car then and since then has always had top tier 91 octane (calif). 

Does it help? I have no idea but I'm not going to put anything but.


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

MisterJJ said:


>


 :laugh: 

-But yes, as detailed elsewhere, I have a nerd-o-matic spreadsheet, and FULL paper receipt documentation of every single fill-up. The spreadsheet also graphs MPG from fill-up to fill-up, and trends should be easy to spot. 

Make what you like of it... but I'm open to both. Personally, while I agree that the valves don't get washed, combustion byproducts can still leak and condense... -PLAINLY. -If some magic detergent-like additive can make additives less sticky, then I'm all up for it. 

My service manager knows what a particular customer I am, I've shown him the spreadsheet, the receipt scans AND the thick wads of originals; HE was the person who told me that -essentially- 'if you had stuck to top-tier gas, we could have covered this for you', He knows I've only ever used approved oils, he knows that since 65,000 miles I've used ONLY 'top-teir' gas, and he also knows that the car has been to his dealership for every single service for ALL of its 100,000 miles... If it turns out to be demonstrably bullcrap, then it's HIM I'll be speaking to first, and I'll start with _"hey, remember what you told me..."_. 

Until I get another 30,000 miles on the car, I won't be able to offer any concrete, first hand account as to whether this really does make a difference or not. -But I do point out that the manual clearly states that "if you DON'T use these approved fluids, then we're not liable".


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Just an update since I have been quite recently.......Shudders are still present. The only thing recent was we replaced the DV. The only other idea my mechanic had at the time was the crankcase breather valve? I'm starting to lean towards my gas around here absolutely blowing. The shudders don't always happen but they are still present I don't pay attention to enough to really realize from tank to tank. I'm gonna drop to 91 octane mode(running 93 octane fuel) and see if they happen again. Once i get my vag com back I'll start running all the logs I can. 

the only problem will be getting into my program switching.....my PIN is ridiculously stupid and I can never get it right. :facepalm:


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

I've lost track... Did the OP every clean the valves, like suggested in the first reply?


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

MisterJJ said:


> I've lost track... Did the OP every clean the valves, like suggested in the first reply?


Yes.

To update everyone and anyone new... Here's a list of what has been replaced/cleaned/fixed:
Spark plugs
Coil packs
Evap purge valve (N75)
Diverter Valve
Cleaned Intake valves
All Vacuum Leaks -- there were 2 or 3 minor leaks

Parts checked and confirmed to be okay
Cam follower
HPFP


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Hmm... Tricky one. I know there's a fuel pressure sensor that can cause stutters at higher speeds, but not the cold start problems. Could be related though.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

MisterJJ said:


> Hmm... Tricky one. I know there's a fuel pressure sensor that can cause stutters at higher speeds, but not the cold start problems. Could be related though.


Speaking of cold starts -- I replaced my intake with a filter on a stick K&N typhoon to be exact. Now the starts are not "clunky" because that was just my air box bouncing around.....but I can still notice when they would have been clunky they are just longer uglier cranks ...its hard to describe.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

okay, so i'm new to the whole running logs with vag com so I haven't mastered the whole interpretation part. Basically I ran a log for an entire drive...about 40 mins. During this trip i was able to replicate the stutters/shudder whatever we want to call them. so somewhere in the data I collected my be some useful info. If anyone would be kind enough to look over the log I can email it over to you. 

to replicate the problem I just entered the highway low in 4th around 2000rpms and ran WOT until about 130mph. I cant remember when the shudders started but it was probably around 100ish and they did not last the entire time but were obvious until they disappeared. I would say it was a good 4 or 5 stutters/shudders/misfires whatever the hell you want to call them. At one point i did see the misfire count moved to 1 but next time i looked it was down to 0. Once again don't know much about interpreting this data but will gladly share what I have collected. 

Items logged include: 
Engine speed 
misfire sum 
lambda, current value 
Accelerator pedal position 
Throttle plate angle 
Injection timing (Median) 
Current Fuel pressure 
N75 Duty cycle 
Boost pressure (specified) 
Boost pressure (Actual) 
Rail pressure - specified 
Rail pressure - Actual 

Took that from APR's website for boost and fueling diagnosis


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

I'll admit, I haven't read through the entire thread, but I looked at your mods and everything on this page. It doesn't look like you've checked the tb. After everything you've done, I would look in that direction with the problem coming during WOT and cold starts.


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## P0299 (Mar 18, 2012)

This might sound crazy but what the hell at this point I think crazy is where you need to be looking. How are your motor mounts? Before I upgraded my pendulum mount my motor would shift causing wheel hop and traction control madness. It only happened during hard acceleration but it felt just like when my coil packs were bad and the traction light rarely lit up.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

I'll add both to my list lol. I'm running out of things to replace/repair. I think I'm gonna have my mechanic re check my Cam follower. 

It's like the fuel cuts out or i'm not getting enough. it's odd because it smoothed out as i stayed WOT...basically they started and I had about 4-5 good solid shudders, pulses, stutters, flutters, butters....stayed on her the whole time and continued through 4th and into 5th with no problems after then let off at 130mph. 

It can be at any time I'm WOT -- way way back I had gotten them while in 2nd. I'm sure it's happened in every gear by now lol


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Also, check you MAF, and really, any other sensors that read air and fuel, because it sounds like the computer might be compensating for a perceived change in the mix, which could cause these types of problems. VWaddict is I think an engineer, and knows way more about the computer stuff, but I would look in this order: maf, tb, then maybe get your tune checked.


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## pay up (Nov 11, 2012)

I've got the hard start issue as well. It seems to me that it may be the in tank "priming pump." If I turn the key to the on position (after sitting for 8 or more hours) turn the key back off and on again the I don't have the problem. (I know its not a solution but try it and see if it helps you in diagnosing the problem) I've been back and forth on what to replace, pcv, n80 valve, maf, etc. So far all I've changed were plugs and fuel filter. I've been putting off a CB cleaning til winter when I'll do my timing belt and probably just remove the head and have it hot tanked. Sure will be nice to throw a totally clean head on the car.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

npace said:


> Also, check you MAF, and really, any other sensors that read air and fuel, because it sounds like the computer might be compensating for a perceived change in the mix, which could cause these types of problems. VWaddict is I think an engineer, and knows way more about the computer stuff, but I would look in this order: maf, tb, then maybe get your tune checked.


 I did inspect the MAF for visual damage when I installed my new intake but I would assume the problem wouldn't be visible lol The only other way would be to swap it out...right? 



pay up said:


> I've got the hard start issue as well. It seems to me that it may be the in tank "priming pump." If I turn the key to the on position (after sitting for 8 or more hours) turn the key back off and on again the I don't have the problem. (I know its not a solution but try it and see if it helps you in diagnosing the problem) I've been back and forth on what to replace, pcv, n80 valve, maf, etc. So far all I've changed were plugs and fuel filter. I've been putting off a CB cleaning til winter when I'll do my timing belt and probably just remove the head and have it hot tanked. Sure will be nice to throw a totally clean head on the car.


 I normally do turn the key to on and wait a few seconds but don't our pumps begin priming once the door is opened? I never really had any luck with doing that. My starts can just be very scratchy, long and have a odd grinding noise basically immediately after the engine starts. The grinding noise was present on my previous 02 cavalier also. I always felt as if it had something to do with my clutch.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Also, look at your check valve. I know you looked at the evap purge valve, but the two should be next to eachother. See the below diagram. I know the pic shows a 1.8T, but this actually came from the 2.0TSI manual. 










Additionally, this thread on triplezoom may be helpful: 

http://forums.triplezoom.com/showth...ging-backfiring-EVAP-Canister-Purge-Valve-N80


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Awesome, Thanks man! 

I ordered a cam follower last night. Don't really believe that it can be okay especially if its the original. I'm at 56k with about 20k being under stage 2. It's gotta be pretty worn by now.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Do you have the TSI or FSI engine? I know you're a 2008, but the split is in that MY. If it's the TSI, your cam follower should be fine.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

npace said:


> Do you have the TSI or FSI engine? I know you're a 2008, but the split is in that MY. If it's the TSI, your cam follower should be fine.


 Unfortunately I have an FSI......  I didn't do nearly enough research before I purchased this hunk of do do


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

Cam follower replaced today.....only time will tell lol Here's some pictures of the old. Sorry for the quality ...just some Iphone pictures. I have ~56.5K Miles and I'm assuming this is the original one. 

If you're interested in more pictures I can try and provide better ones. 

The coating is completely gone and a ton of little scratches on the face but its completely smooth and flat.


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

I had such high hopes, the car was running so smooth. I did a few hard pulls with no shudders when I would normally have them and everything was cool........then last night .......  

Don't know where else to go from here, I really wish I would get a CEL.

I may take it back to AP tuning and have them re flash the car or see what they say.


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## DJP-OOOO (Dec 28, 2013)

Vishio did you ever resolve your issue? I am having similar problem with my A3. Replaced spark plugs, battery, alternator, n80 valve, PCV valve, and installed K&N typhoon. Idle is better, cold starts are still ugly!


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## Vishio (Nov 1, 2012)

DJP-OOOO said:


> Vishio did you ever resolve your issue? I am having similar problem with my A3. Replaced spark plugs, battery, alternator, n80 valve, PCV valve, and installed K&N typhoon. Idle is better, cold starts are still ugly!


Nope  -- I actually got my first misfire codes over thanksgiving break. Came back to my car which had been sitting all weekend in the freezing temps and it misfired and threw 2 codes. started first crank though. I think the codes were for random/something something something misfires then the other was for cylinder 4. 

I have almost come to the point of not caring anymore lol.


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