# C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno



## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

I decided to change my setup again as the 440cc injectors were maxed out at 20 psi and I wanted a bit more power out of the car. I got some 630cc injectors and took the car back up to Jeff Atwood to tune it. Jeff (Jefnes3) dyno tuned the car for roughly one hour on Tony's (nerdhotrod) dyno and was able to make 448whp 422 trq @ 24 psi with only 93 octane in the tank. As you can see in the dyno chart the ecu pulled timing around 5500 causing the dip in power. WAI is going to be setup on the car this week so more timing can be added and hopefully more power can be made. The car was also upgraded with a phenolic spacer for the intake manifold (to keep intake temps down) and MSD blast coils for the ignition. With the new ignition setup we are able to run a .030" gap on the plugs rather then the .022" gap with the stock coil pack. Thanks again to Jamie and Pete (cncpete) of Sleepers Performance for their dedicated hard work on the car.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

nice job. do you prefer 44x whp with the dip to 40x without?


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## HOVTroll (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

Very nice numbers...

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (UBER1.8t)*

Nice setup, clean install. Good numbers, you probably need a head job and different cam’s if you want to gain significantly in that region. That’s where the 24V has the advantage over the 12V (flow), and the variable valve tuning possibility (cam’s). I would go that route before WAI and/or bigger turbo.
Nice gob. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ShaggyVR6 (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: (MarcoVR6SC)*

he already got wai installed he just got a bad controller


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (MarcoVR6SC)*

The car is running 264/260 cams already and a WAI is an easy way to run more timing. It's almost like running race gas all the time more or less. I agree that a ported & polished head with big valves may yield greater numbers but given the cost the WAI setup is the logical choice. I also think I'll run a larger turbo before doing head work.


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*

That’s right, it’s certainly cheaper at the beginning, but you guys are seemingly going for big numbers (once your addicted to power), and sooner or later you will hit the ‘head flow’ wall. Good to see other people going to the limit. When I find more time to finish my car 24VT (not much space in a Corrado, so everything has to be spot on), I’ll stop at 400bhp, that’s more then enough to drive a fwd car for me. How is it like to drive the car?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*

No ~tuning was done on the dyno.
We built this car last year (done for Waterfest 2005).
Running 42# inj.
Brian put ~10k miles on the car making 410whp, and wanted a little more... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Installed some 630cc inj.
Re-mapped the fueling.
Custom made new coilpack.
Installed Snow water injection (control box is DEAD, so no H20).
Rolled it down to EPL to see what sort of numbers we could make
on pump gas.
13psi : check 314whp peak
24psi : check (plenty of fuel, no knock, 458whp peak

Not bad for a HG spacer only motor, pump gas, stock ecu.
Who needs standalone??








Its not done yet. 

-Jeff


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VR6T 20 PSI)*

Why the http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ?


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## MiamiVr6T (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

any pics of the ignition setup?


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

wtf I know the dip is timming being pulled as for the power kind of ****ty for that much boost and cams.


_Modified by VR6T 20 PSI at 3:38 PM 7-10-2006_


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_Why the http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ?


Thats because his car made more power on an EIP set up IIRC. If I also remember correctly, his a/f chart was pretty ugly. Leaning out severely on the top end. 

To everyone else, this is on a Mustang dyno.


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_wtf is up with that huge as dip... as for the power kind of ****ty for that much boost and cams.


if you could read, he said timing was being pulled.
also, if you look, he would have been well near 500whp if timing was not pulled.
maybe you are stupid and can't see that.


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## under boost (Apr 22, 2006)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

nice work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_wtf I know the dip is timming being pulled as for the power kind of ****ty for that much boost and cams.

So, let's get this straight. Brian is running pump gas and sees timing retard which limits his output -especially in that dip area. He realizes he needs to increase his octane to support greater output and plans to add it shortly via water/alcohol injection. What octane fuel did you dyno with? Did you use pump or race fuel? Also, what type of dyno di you test on?


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*

listen ****** i am aware that is the reason the dip is there *****... and it would have not made any more power idiot the power came back up by the end of the pull and would not of went up. You stupid ass ***** keep your comments at your ****ty half ass shop.


_Modified by VR6T 20 PSI at 6:01 PM 7-10-2006_


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (Band-Aid)*

Actually tool the car went 10.5 at the end of the run. I know my graph looks like hell so why does it make more power than his ****ty as tuned C2 bull**** that is my point.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*

I understand it was on a mustang dyno and i had 93 in my car. I have ran race gas and the only differnce i noticed the graph was a little smoother down low but with no increase in power.


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VR6T 20 PSI)*

From your dyno post you state that you were running 110 octane, where are you getting that you made those numbers with 93?









_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_24 and the gas was 5 gallons of 110 and 4-5 of 94. This was the first time however that i ran race gas. I usually run 94 up to 22 psi.


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VR6T 20 PSI)*

Looks like someone gets their panties in a bunch easily.
Its great that you made that much power on a race/pump gas mix with a bad a/f curve. But how many other people will be able to duplicate those numbers with your set up? I bet you could count them on 1 hand and 98% of people don't want to go through the hassle of "tuning" a FMU and still get bad a/f results. 
Jeff's tuning is great in the fact that 
a) it keeps you street legal
b) its plug and play and no real tuning of anything is required by the installer
c) it makes good reliable power 
d) anyone can use it 

You think you're way is better, then that's what you think. But you coming into this thread just to bash Jeff's tuning because it doesn't make as much power as you did makes you look very immature and ignorant.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

I got to ride in a car that VRT 20psi set up that used the same setup that he was using for the 485 whp iirc, and it seemed to run really well to me. The driveability felt just as good as my C2 tuning. 
my .02


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## vw203 (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (Band-Aid)*

VR6T 20 PSI hope to see you and your wonderfull car at waterfest so we can put a face to the big words. jeff happens to be a very good friend of mine and it seems like your making this personal for no reason.


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_Looks like someone gets their panties in a bunch easily.
Its great that you made that much power on a race/pump gas mix with a bad a/f curve. But how many other people will be able to duplicate those numbers with your set up? I bet you could count them on 1 hand and 98% of people don't want to go through the hassle of "tuning" a FMU and still get bad a/f results. 
Jeff's tuning is great in the fact that 
a) it keeps you street legal
b) its plug and play and no real tuning of anything is required by the installer
c) it makes good reliable power 
d) anyone can use it 

You think you're way is better, then that's what you think. But you coming into this thread just to bash Jeff's tuning because it doesn't make as much power as you did makes you look very immature and ignorant. 

x2
Jeff gets alotta sh*T becuase his "tunning" dosnt make power..







alota people who hatte compare his turbo chips to a full blown standalone system..well obviously for the price u pay for stand alone you will be able to fine tune and produce as much power as possible depending on the set up..well thats the price you pay and the option you get..with jeff's chips you pay a fraction of the price..and you still get a decent power curve for the money..its not gonna be a crazy impressive numbers, but pretty damn good for a street legal chip...considering that all u do is put in a chip and injectors..and go...no constant tunning...and the car will pass inspection...thats how I feel..Im not here to bash anybody..just telling it from my point of view..
BTW i had to pick up a chip from jeff down at sleeps and met Jamie there almost 10 months back..and the 2 of them are really cool guys..Id feel safe handing my car over to them for some work..but i live in NJ..and do my own work for the most part..but you catch my drift.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Vdubsolo at 6:35 PM 7-10-2006_


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VR6T 20 PSI)*

Why do you have to ruin every c2 thread? What have you accomplished with the amazing 485whp you have? Nothing. You aren't running any faster than the c2 cars and your a/f is horrible. And I bet part throttle boost is fun http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Before atwood, you could only go to EIP or ATP for a chip. Pardon me if I'm not too enthusiastic about either one of them.


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## sinisterh22a (Oct 9, 2003)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*

eric hows your car running i saw it at the shop the other day..


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (sinisterh22a)*

Good. Chris replaced the window motor. The intake is also all hard pipe now. No more leaks.


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Why do you have to ruin every c2 thread? What have you accomplished with the amazing 485whp you have? Nothing. You aren't running any faster than the c2 cars and your a/f is horrible. And I bet part throttle boost is fun http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
*Before atwood, you could only go to EIP or ATP for a chip. Pardon me if I'm not too enthusiastic about either one of them. *

That's why I waited 10 years to get my Rado turbo'ed.. I got zero bucking.. Programming might be be ultra conservative but I don't need to pop my hood open every 10 mins to adjust my FMU or open my laptop and change settings.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

Good job Brian...I'm sure I'll see you at waterfest in the c2 booth again...
To the other guy...20psi...
Whether your stuff is better then Jeffs/c2's or not, you really have some sort of problem. Not sure what...
Are you somehow upset that he wanted to tell people that he made some good power on c2 management?
But why can't you be mature about it? It's all good. We're all in the same boat trying to make our cars faster and we all like to do it a different way.

I mean, if you really wanna break this whole power thing down...it's all kinda retarded (you, me, and everybody else).
Why are we trying to put so much power down through a FWD car?
So, now you are as retarded as all of us.


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (nater)*

Nice numbers on pump gas Jeff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Brian your car is going to be a beast with the meth, better start saving up for a new tranny, lol.
To the 20psi hater... eat a d!ck you [email protected], your just pissed because because your A/F table looks like a moto-cross track. Thats why you lie about the kind of fuel your using. You should stick to riding EIP's nutz.


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_Nice numbers on pump gas Jeff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Brian your car is going to be a beast with the meth, better start saving up for a new tranny, lol.
To the 20psi hater... eat a d!ck you [email protected], your just pissed because because your A/F table looks like a moto-cross track. Thats why you lie about the kind of fuel your using. You should stick to riding EIP's nutz.

well put.. lol


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## Ghetto-8v (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (nater)*

Nice. I need a c2 VR http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vw203 (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (Ghetto-8v)*

also the fact that brian is running a cat , no cel, fully street legal and passes emissions does ur 485hp car do that? doubt it


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## IBD12NV (Nov 24, 2000)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (Ghetto-8v)*

Very nice. This thread almost went down hill fast by the comments of one person.
I've been watching this car closely as I would like to follow his work. Can't do it on my own sitting in Iraq, but when I return we will see. Again, GREAT JOB. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by IBD12NV at 1:16 AM 7-11-2006_


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (IBD12NV)*

I hate to post in on this but it bothers me so much. Since when do you have to pop your hood and adjust the fmu. Iv have owned more vr6 turbos then most ever will (5), 3 with that fmu and never did I touch that thing. The real problem is you all assume because he said that is the way it is. The rate of rise is max when you close it, LEAVE IT THERE.... The cars need all the fuel pressure. Boy it stupid, you all love to bash EIP, the only real long term VW tuner, the place where turboing a vr6 was developed. If think differently, you are wrong, I play a big role in it. 
I was there in 1995 when we were in EUROpean car
on the cover, over 11 years ago. Or when I drove my gti to a 11.71, full interior and just bolted on some slicks, The same day our great customer and friend Bill S. ran a 11.6, with a full eip set up. 
I think vr20psi is only it out to stop this c2 / vwvortex'ers band aginest EIP, Those who can't give credit where credit is due are just jeaolus, sorry
Just like all turbo systems, it is only as good as 2 things
Who designed it and who installed it........ bottom line......


_Modified by ForsFedRado at 6:08 AM 7-11-2006_


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (ForsFedRado)*

...and to counter your post.
Ive been in 3 VRT's that were running the EIP stage 2 set up. 1 car ran stupid lean past 6psi and bucked in part throttle boost. The second car is on its 3rd motor I believe because of lean a/f's. The owner seems not want to switch engine managements for some reason and he keeps the EIP stuff. The 3rd car had it on for about 4 weeks before he removed the turbo system because he was frustrated how the car ran. After several call to EIP they could do nothing for him but "bring it down and we'll get it running right" at the tune of $85 an hr plus dyno time.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

I have dynoed my car many times and yes that graph was with race gas.My car is proably on the dyno more than most cars becouse i have really easy access to one. I can not wait till next spring my car will no longer have vw engine management and be making, i hope 650whp.


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (Band-Aid)*

Like I said... only as good as the INSTALLER.
It is interesting the same parts that have been on my car for over 7
years are still performing properly, but some one else who installed the SAME parts is having a problem in 4 weeks. Odd, or could the installer be the issue. Use common logic. So many people use this kit.
I use to get fly around the world to install these kits. Never, ever did I have some one call me weeks later saying the kit YOU installed is have a issue....
I worked ther before there were was a dyno there, we street tuned cars all the time with great results. 
You beleive huh, Do you know? If it was running lean it is very easy to tell, CK a plug, da
Bring them to me I can make them all run right!!!!!!!!


_Modified by ForsFedRado at 8:02 AM 7-11-2006_


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## lenko62 (Sep 29, 2001)

damn, i have had an Eip fueling system on my car for 2 years, installed by VR6t 20psi, and havent had a problem with it....runs great, good drivability, and MAKES power. Id never switch to the alternative...
ill try to get it dynod soon...we'll see..


_Modified by lenko62 at 10:39 AM 7-11-2006_


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (ForsFedRado)*

I agree that EIP was basically the company that really got me into wanting to turbo my car. After saving up the money and doing alot of research I decided that I didn't want to run the proven fmu setup given most of the A/F ratios I've seen all out of wack. Before I met up with Jeff and Sleepers Performance I asked Rich why EIP never shows A/F on any of their dyno charts on their site and never got an answer. Sure the numbers are there but I'm more concerned about having a setup that is reliable, no check engine light (emissions legal) and how alwaysinboost put in an A/F curve like a "moto-cross track". I have nothing against EIP and never will, they put out some of the sickest VWs to date, unfortunately their fmu setup is not something I want to run. I've learned alot from people like Jefnes3, Vr6Mole, Scott F. Williams, Alwaysinboost, Lugnuts, Killa, Marty, NYCVR6, Cabzilla, 1.BillyT, GTRTim, 50Cent and various others. I post on this board to give information to people who may be researching a custom turbo setup of their own and don't know what choices they have when it comes to software and hardware. I can do without the childish comments from people like vr6t 20 psi. For some reason you find the need to $hit on every post related to Jeff's tuning. It makes me laugh that you say his tuning doesn't make power. 448whp in a street legal car is plenty...until the water injection is working.


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

Not to make a excuse for eip, but there dyno originaly did not have wide band incorperated in for many years, Befor you could get a good wide band for 2500 or so. We relied on egt on the hottest cylinder.
My barging in was not about your post tekstepvr6
Just every body that is a EIP hater, and most of there hate is from more hear say then real hands on use of the products.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (ForsFedRado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ForsFedRado* »_Not to make a excuse for eip, but there dyno originaly did not have wide band incorperated in for many years, Befor you could get a good wide band for 2500 or so. We relied on egt on the hottest cylinder.

EIP to this day does not post up graphs with a/f. Probably because they are terrible.


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*

You just can't let up, huh. Sad, sad 
or is it your trap speed making you sad. If I made 400whp and was still running less then 120 trap speeds I would be sad too.....


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## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (ForsFedRado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ForsFedRado* »_You just can't let up, huh. Sad, sad 
or is it your trap speed making you sad. If I made 400whp and was still running less then 120 trap speeds I would be sad too.....


haha now thats funny


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (ForsFedRado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ForsFedRado* »_You just can't let up, huh. Sad, sad 
or is it your trap speed making you sad. If I made 400whp and was still running less then 120 trap speeds I would be sad too.....


The run was on street tires. I run 11psi for over half the track, then I only ran 16psi in 3rd and 4th and still trapped 116mph. Car traps 111mph on 11psi. Sorry I didn't want to run [email protected]
A/F graphs help prove reliability. If EIP management made decent looking a/f curves they would probably include them.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*

Don't worry about the cro-magnon fuel setups. Even something as "simple" as the C2 setup is light years beyond that crap in terms of safety and consistency. They're just making themselves look stupid.


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## 6cylVWguy (Jun 14, 2000)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (ForsFedRado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ForsFedRado* »_I hate to post in on this but it bothers me so much. Since when do you have to pop your hood and adjust the fmu. Iv have owned more vr6 turbos then most ever will (5), 3 with that fmu and never did I touch that thing. The real problem is you all assume because he said that is the way it is. The rate of rise is max when you close it, LEAVE IT THERE.... The cars need all the fuel pressure. Boy it stupid, you all love to bash EIP, the only real long term VW tuner, the place where turboing a vr6 was developed. If think differently, you are wrong, I play a big role in it. 
I was there in 1995 when we were in EUROpean car
on the cover, over 11 years ago. Or when I drove my gti to a 11.71, full interior and just bolted on some slicks, The same day our great customer and friend Bill S. ran a 11.6, with a full eip set up. 
I think vr20psi is only it out to stop this c2 / vwvortex'ers band aginest EIP, Those who can't give credit where credit is due are just jeaolus, sorry
Just like all turbo systems, it is only as good as 2 things
Who designed it and who installed it........ bottom line......

I agree with this guy. Speaking from experience of course!
Not that I'm bashing the other tuners because I think every setup has their pluses and minuses. I almost went with a C2 chip for my car, but they just couldn't get me what I needed when I needed it.
However, when false statements are spread I think they need to be corrected. The rrFPR may not be quite as adaptable as a well tuned motronic specific chip, but that certainly doesn't mean they don't work, are unreliable, and require any extra tuning after the initial tune. People have been running the rrFPR setup for years and I have never heard anyone on here complain about it, once they have a good initial tune. My car was tuned by them and it has run as advertised for the last 3 yrs. While an n of 1 is hardly conclusive, for myself, driving the car the way I do, I don't need any other evidence to convince me that there are multiple valid and acceptable ways to get to a certain goal.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (ForsFedRado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ForsFedRado* »_I hate to post in on this but it bothers me so much. Since when do you have to pop your hood and adjust the fmu. Iv have owned more vr6 turbos then most ever will (5), 3 with that fmu and never did I touch that thing. The real problem is you all assume because he said that is the way it is. The rate of rise is max when you close it, LEAVE IT THERE.... The cars need all the fuel pressure. Boy it stupid, you all love to bash EIP, the only real long term VW tuner, the place where turboing a vr6 was developed. If think differently, you are wrong, I play a big role in it. 
I was there in 1995 when we were in EUROpean car
on the cover, over 11 years ago. Or when I drove my gti to a 11.71, full interior and just bolted on some slicks, The same day our great customer and friend Bill S. ran a 11.6, with a full eip set up. 
I think vr20psi is only it out to stop this c2 / vwvortex'ers band aginest EIP, Those who can't give credit where credit is due are just jeaolus, sorry
Just like all turbo systems, it is only as good as 2 things
Who designed it and who installed it........ bottom line......

_Modified by ForsFedRado at 6:08 AM 7-11-2006_

i am curious as to what car you had then. I was at waterfest '96 and Bill's car was still in the testing phase back then (almost ready) was what i was told someone from EIP back then.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (ForsFedRado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ForsFedRado* »_I think vr20psi is only it out to stop this c2 / vwvortex'ers band aginest EIP

I'm probably not reading all the threads but...
I don't see much of "Us against them" type bashing by c2 customers.
And even if there were some c2 ppl bashing eip so what? It doesn't mean all of us are like that - and it certainly doesn't mean that any particular person would deserve getting bashed (especially if they haven't "bashed" eip before).
That's just my opinion. I mean, maybe Brian somehow talked smack on EIP and trashed vr20psi...well then maybe he deserves some payback but man, he really let him have it.
And to a normal guy like me who just browses these forums and likes to see what guys are doing...it kinda looks bad. Especially when all it seemed to me that he was trying to do was show us what he accomplished.
Either way, 
I really wished everybody could get along...and I'm not just saying that. It would be cool.
So, at waterfest is there going to be a big brawl in the parking lot? c2 vs eip?
Hope not.
I like everybody that owns a vw (especially a vr6t) unless they've done something (or threatened to) that would harm me.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (MiamiVr6T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soupuh* »_nice job. do you prefer 44x whp with the dip to 40x without?

I don't know, I haven't had a chance to drive it yet. The wai controller came in today do I'm pretty sure that dip will be long gone now.

_Quote, originally posted by *MiamiVr6T* »_any pics of the ignition setup?

No pics yet. But its using the same coils as pictured below.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

What a Piece of ****.
Loser.

l

.


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

Im her not to bash on any chip/fmu,.... but you guys ALL need to learn what soap and water is, and clean up all these dirty/untidy engine bays.....
You can say I'm not into "show " all you want . A cleantidy bay is much easier to locate leaks,........in.















Pot stirs


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (mikebobelak)*

Mike its nice to see that you went turbo and realized where the power is.







I'll have some shots of my engine bay in a few days.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_EIP to this day does not post up graphs with a/f. Probably because they are terrible.

but you have no idea, you're just another eip bandwagon basher.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (TBT-PassatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_
but you have no idea, you're just another eip bandwagon basher.

I've seen dyno graphs of EIP cars with a/f, but they weren't posted by EIP and aren't on their website anywhere. I'm not really into bashing EIP, but I believe C2 to be the better all around alternative to what has been around before. 
I've said many times before. I don't like using stock injectors and pushing them way past their intended usage. I also don't like the use of FMUs or rrFPRs. Band-Aids. No more mention of EIP, I promise


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*

Having had PERSONAL experience with BOTH companies,I will say that C2 and Jeff make great power/products..........EIP is about 1/4 mile glory runs,and selling over-priced CRAP products........Chinese made Turbonetics turbos,Chinese mad "Greddy" copy cat BOV's,downpipes that sometimes fit.........a over-priced piece of tubing with flanges welded to it called a "turbo manifold",and software that totally ceases to function correctly.............smoke and mirrors and MARKETINGare EIP's strengths.......try ask 24V turbo guys how "well" their software works!


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## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VWAUDITECH)*

all i know is c2 (jeff) spent alot of time with me making sure my kit was tuned right ,,his software ia awsome and ive had no problems.


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_Having had PERSONAL experience with BOTH companies,I will say that C2 and Jeff make great power/products..........EIP is about 1/4 mile glory runs,and selling over-priced CRAP products........Chinese made Turbonetics turbos,Chinese mad "Greddy" copy cat BOV's,downpipes that sometimes fit.........a over-priced piece of tubing with flanges welded to it called a "turbo manifold",and software that totally ceases to function correctly.............smoke and mirrors and MARKETINGare EIP's strengths.......try ask 24V turbo guys how "well" their software works!









No not another basher,








No wonder I hate this site and forum, sad


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## 6cylVWguy (Jun 14, 2000)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_..........EIP is about 1/4 mile glory runs,and selling over-priced CRAP products........

Really, because I road course (you know, where the car runs for at least 20 minutes at a time between 90-100% of it's ability throughout an entire day) my car quite a bit and have surprised quite a few people with my EIP tuned car. And yet, it's still running.
What's funny is that regardless of the tuner company there are plenty of people with crappy running and nicely running cars. My ATP software was horrible, I've seen and heard of people on this forum with poorly running VF blower kits, and even some mildly tuned FI cars coming from Schimmel were horrible.
My last track day a guy in a Corrado was running a VF kit that was tweaked by Schimmel and the guy couldn't even drive the car past the first session because it was bucking and hestitating over 4k rpms. I ran perfect the entire day. 
Much like people bashing VW as an unreliable brand, I get really confused when people say that EIP produces such a horrible product. It's been phenomenally reliable for me, both the brand and tuner. Why would I want to change? If people would quit the mudslinging and actually show me evidence and proof as to why one is definitively better than the other I would be more than willing to listen. I'm talking reali life experience here, not arm chair racer logic. What is written on paper can and often does differ from reality. It's not like there aren't poorly running C2 cars, or EIP cars for that matter.


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (.therealvrt)*

I have only been to water fest once. Not much on car show, kind of lame. I am more about watching my speed fly past the 140 mark a feww times a week. Me and bill were good friends at that time, and still to this day we are intouch. I use his DTA pro 8. 
Back then in 1996, yes that year his car was still being developed and tuned with tec 2 and a eip 2.9. Mine and his cars were the test beds, mine at the shop and his in pa. where he did the instalation work. There was also a 3.1 vrt corrado with tec 1 but we let the car sit untill the tec 2 installs were sorted out...


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## sinisterh22a (Oct 9, 2003)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

Bump for some updated pics


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_Mike its nice to see that you went turbo and realized where the power is.







I'll have some shots of my engine bay in a few days. 

Heres a shot of the "new" setup,..........


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (sinisterh22a)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Is the WAI working yet?


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## MK4futurayellowVR6 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*

hey jeff i want that setup on my car when can i send out the ecu


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (MK4futurayellowVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MK4futurayellowVR6* »_hey jeff i want that setup on my car when can i send out the ecu









The 630's will flow enough to hit 500whp. (possibly on pump gas, not reccomended)
I have some more work to do before we release the tune.

-Jeff


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## MK4futurayellowVR6 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (Jefnes3)*

when do you think that software will be done and what would be the price for the update


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## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_listen ****** i am aware that is the reason the dip is there *****... and it would have not made any more power *idiot* the power came back up by the end of the pull and would not of went up. You *stupid ass ****** keep your comments at your ****ty half ass shop.

_Modified by VR6T 20 PSI at 6:01 PM 7-10-2006_


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## ShaggyVR6 (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (GoKart_16v)*

I just wanted to say i am running jeffs 630 tune also and it runs great


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (MK4futurayellowVR6)*

Brian ...your car is looking good...It's a shame my little 8v is faster








Just kidding ...that's not true.
Cant we all just get along? Are we not trying to achieve the same goals....Vw performance....or show good looks for some people.....If you like your setup good ..if you like some other setup also good......if you think somebody's setup sucks...it must be a supercharger.....just kidding supercharged folks. If you are not happy with sombodys products or tuning...make your own setup specking your own parts and tune it your damn self then post your numbers...and wait for the thumbs up's and downs.
If you want it done to your specs...do the research...gather the parts. fit the parts weld the pipes pick the turbo and waste gate....decide what fueling solution to go with..and see what happens...then good or bad it's your fault if it's great...and if it sucks and the kid down the block out ran your car with his moped.
At the moment I'm using Jeffs stuff...I got it used..along with all the parts on the car..from people on here and 1 e bay item....the waste gate...I built the piping my self from stainless tubing.....On first start up it ran and idled like stock it runs a steady 12 psi boost (that's what spring is in the waste gate when i got it) . I'm happy with it and that's all that matters. And it's just under 2,000 for everything....including Zetronics wide-band with led and a spanking new *real* vag com ..I'll get some dyno numbers soon....but like all things...I want more...so this winter it's going to be me and the soldering iron and mega-squirt..also a G60 O2a swap.
I have no time to have somebody tune my car.....and I wont let them any way....because I wont let somebody be responsible for the cars success or failure....that burden is all on me.....I need another beer
See you people at H20....no I'm not going to waterfest....I'll be at the Beach having fun in the sun........
I'll shut up now...........
This post has been useless








Cheers Boost Junkies


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## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (Jefnes3)*

Mr. Jeff I have a 96 mk3 vr6-T with the C-2 short runner intake manifold, mass, chip and 42lbs injectors and 3.0 full built motor, I was wondering if I ever will be able to run like 550cc injectos, is that any plans for something like this coming, looking for more power, injector are close to max out on around 24 lbs of boost on a t-62 turbo, 69A/R 3'' in, 3'' out. Thank you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Atila


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (sinisterh22a)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sinisterh22a* »_Bump for some updated pics

Here's what the engine bay looks like now.








The WAI setup is working great from what I can tell so far. I'm only running water right now. I have the boost set at 20 psi and it feels alot stronger then it did before with the old injectors. I'll probably be logging some pulls with vag-com over the next few days to see if its pulling any timing and then up the boost some more before dynoing again.


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## MK4futurayellowVR6 (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

set up looks real nice. finishing up my msd coil packs, have to do brackets for them, and finshing painting intercooler pipes,cant wait for jeffs new software update. on the software you have to run the wai setup


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## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (MK4futurayellowVR6)*

Car looks really hot. Those injectors you changed too are they high or low independance ?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (mocas)*

They are Siemens 630cc high impedance injectors, you can't run low impedance injectors with the stock ecu.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

Where's your dyno with the WAI running?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno ([email protected])*

Haven't gone back to the dyno yet to get the numbers.


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

So you made the ~450 w/o the water injection? Didn't know that.


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: C2/Sleepers Performance MKIV VRT 630cc Dyno (tekstepvr6)*

Brian there is a dyno right around the corner from my house. I've dynoed the VR there a couple times already. My cousin and I are going there this weekend, let me know if you want schedule an appointment for ya.


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