# so yet another total overhaul....



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

lawl
2x








http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1744
2x








http://www.madisound.com/catal...d=781
4x








http://www.madisound.com/catal...1eeb9
2x








http://ampguts.realmofexcursio...n_604/
2x








http://www.madaboutsound.com/S...C.asp
And perhaps some of this in the rear








http://images.google.com/imgre...%3Den

Tuning will be infinately variable in every way except equalization, 31 bands per channel, done through the computer runing an ASIO sound card and some nice new software.
should be fun










_Modified by pwnt by pat at 2:27 PM 11-5-2007_


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## VeeDub_L_U (Feb 3, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

I just did a DIY speaker for my house using the Peerless HDS tweeter. sounds f'ing amazing.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (VeeDub_L_U)*

i'm going down that road right now. expect pics after new years. i'm making 3-way, tri-amp crossovers with the BP for the rear speakers on the same chassis, with the sub being electronic controlled by the HU.
i'm thinking:
http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1181
http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1088
http://www.madisound.com/catal...d=939
http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1158 (rears)
http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1392 x2
i'm debating saving up for another month (end of january) and getting revelator tweeters. probably around february i plan to switch the vifa mids to accuton. i figure i can build the crossover the same either way, but the vifa tweeters are 4ohm where the revelators are 8, so i have to figure that out before hand.


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## VeeDub_L_U (Feb 3, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *afinley* »_i'm going down that road right now. expect pics after new years. i'm making 3-way, tri-amp crossovers with the BP for the rear speakers on the same chassis, with the sub being electronic controlled by the HU.
i'm thinking:
http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1181
http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1088
http://www.madisound.com/catal...d=939
http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1158 (rears)
http://www.madisound.com/catal...=1392 x2
i'm debating saving up for another month (end of january) and getting revelator tweeters. probably around february i plan to switch the vifa mids to accuton. i figure i can build the crossover the same either way, but the vifa tweeters are 4ohm where the revelators are 8, so i have to figure that out before hand.

Dont bother with the revelator tweeter. They are an amazing tweeter but for the price the Peerless is outstanding. 
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/
(Maybe you've seen this before, sorry if you have)


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (VeeDub_L_U)*

i hadnt seen that, and it is uper cool. 1" XT's it is.


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## VeeDub_L_U (Feb 3, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

have you checked out the car audio section at http://www.diyaudio.com?


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

The xt25g's sound awesome but they beam, badly. more than about 30* off-axis, forget about it. Those vifa mids look cool though.
The alpine type-x tweets you have, 3/4" version, are amazing as well (especially at $17 a tweeter) and don't suffer from the off-axis qualities of the xt25gs.

from what I've gathered, the best budget DIY tweeters that compete with the big dogs are:
alpine type-x 3/4" ring radiator tweeter based off of the vifa xt19. $17 each
Peerless HDS large format - 4" flange, I think, $50ish each


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 10:59 PM 11-5-2007_


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

well, i knew i was gonna do something <3.5" for the mid, through the dash. i thought i was gonna do 1" tweeters in the factory spot, but that spot faces 20deg down, so i'm gonna do tweets through the dash as well. at that point, may as well use a full frame tweeter.
at the price, i'm really interested in your peerless tweeter review.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

did you ever entertain the idea of a dome tweeter mounted in the pillars firing straight across (where I'm going to put my hds). With a large format tweeter the size of the HDS in the dash, it should be pretty close to 60* off axis for the left ear, and ~15* for the right.
...and a dome midrange, such as the dls IR3 (~$160 shipped for a used set) or dayton 2" dome (30 each new ) either on the stock kick pannel location or on the dash firing at the windshield? dome ranges should have great dispersion no matter where you put them.
pillars should be straight forward and very easy to fab.
yeah those HDS are supposed to rival some of the best of the best including scan and hiloquin units (sp?)
What I *REALLY* want to do is hollow out the dash of a car and put a sub in the dash in a simple 4th order enclosure. too bad no heater motor fails inspection and isn't practicle. or just straight on the dash. I want to just straight up build a dash like this with the sub in the dash but the top of the dash being very wide and flat, then a right angle and the curve down like that dash.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

well i got a beetle with monsoon just so i could use the factory tweeter grill in the dash for mids, but what im looking at now is taking the dash panels out of the missus' beetle and make a kidney shaped frame for both the tweeter and mid to mount in the dash panel. that way i can roll through different tweeters and mids without having to cut up the dash each time. 6.5's in the stock spots though.


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## where_2 (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

I haven't seen an Apple Lisa since 1983... Props for finding an actual color photo of one! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (where_2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *afinley* »_well i got a beetle with monsoon just so i could use the factory tweeter grill in the dash for mids, but what im looking at now is taking the dash panels out of the missus' beetle and make a kidney shaped frame for both the tweeter and mid to mount in the dash panel. that way i can roll through different tweeters and mids without having to cut up the dash each time. 6.5's in the stock spots though.

that makes me sad for some reason. the measurements just aren't right to fit two eights in each door. I was thinking about one ten but that was even worse.







I GUESS two 6.5's is okay.
Don't forget to glass a pod for the speakers







nothing worse than stray sound waves wreaking havoc inside the dash. Also, dashmat. Easily the best $35 I've spent on my stereo, ever.

_Quote, originally posted by *where_2* »_I haven't seen an Apple Lisa since 1983... Props for finding an actual color photo of one! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









images.google.com search: apple lisa
LOL


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## VeeDub_L_U (Feb 3, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *afinley* »_well, i knew i was gonna do something <3.5" for the mid, through the dash. i thought i was gonna do 1" tweeters in the factory spot, but that spot faces 20deg down, so i'm gonna do tweets through the dash as well. at that point, may as well use a full frame tweeter.
at the price, i'm really interested in your peerless tweeter review.

I've been building DIY speakers for years and have used Peerless many times. This Peerless HDS tweeter blows anything Peerless has ever made (and even Scan Speak). The same company owns Vifa, Peerless, and Scan Speak, Vifa being "budget", Peerless mid, and Scan Speak the best. I know this isn't car audio and may be completely irrelevant but I just built this design.
http://www.customanalogue.com/...x.htm. He started out with the Vifa XT25, but swapped it for the HDS. He says the peerless blew the vifa away in almost every respect. I have these speakers in my house and they sound incredible. Check it out if your interested in the HDS tweeter.


_Modified by VeeDub_L_U at 9:01 PM 11-5-2007_


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (VeeDub_L_U)*

I wish I could have found the TRUE HDS/XLS mids. not the "new" hds mids...

sheeit... madisound has these
http://tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=12
look at that top end at 30 degrees off... GOSH. That looks like the PERFECT 2-way woofer... Is that the smaller brother of the 830491 fabled HDS/XLS?
or even this little bugger...
http://www.madisound.com/catal...2.pdf
We'll see how bad the breakup is on the mag cone seas excels before I buy anything else. Hopefully at 48 db/o they'll be clean at 2.5khz.. lol
edit:
btw, xt25g specs - pay attention to the FR graph
http://tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=152



_Modified by pwnt by pat at 12:15 AM 11-6-2007_


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

pat i really am sorry this went so far off topic.
i am hoping that off-axis isnt going to mean alot to me with the scallop of my windshield being both angled towards me, and rounded out away from me. time alignment is gonna be pretty funky though.
my real off-axis concern is the mids. i refuse to use kicks. i've thought about using a 5.25 on the drivers side so i have more room to angle, and a 6.5 on the passenger side where it doesnt matter so much. for the drivers side it doesnt matter too much though, because even if i got a 90deg angle to it, unless it sticks out the grill it wont help...








the only reason i am looking at those vifa mids is that i kinda like the idea of a dome mid, i like the price, and it was pretty much the only one i could find. accuton is nice, little $$, and if i use them, i will have to mount everything on a platter to give the magnet some more room underneath.


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## VeeDub_L_U (Feb 3, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *afinley* »_
the only reason i am looking at those vifa mids is that i kinda like the idea of a dome mid, i like the price, and it was pretty much the only one i could find. 









Peerless 821214. I used it in a 3 way and it was pretty impressive. 
I apologize too Pat.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

Fellas, fellas. I don't think this ever _was_ on topic... LOL
(on-t - mids will be here on Wednesday - still have to order b440 - have about a week off work - might be able to get something done but probably not)
Aaron. Check it. This is what I was talking about. This works with domes, not so much with cones. Only these two pages matter for what I'm talking about.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/...age=8
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/...age=9

I just found out that all the software I'm going to need is going to cost me about $300


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe...6-620


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

i was also think Morel MDT33's
i look at all the scuff marks on my door speaker grills, and i imagine them on the cone of a speaker








also in the those kicks, there was no more direction than i would get with woofers in the door. for mids, i dont think anything is going to beat the imaging my big ass round windshield is gonna get me. my only even kinda issue is the dash real estate for tweeters and mids. i've thought about putting my type-x tweeters in the factory spot in the a-pillar, and just seeing how that works temporarily.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

I was thinking more along the lines of maximizing path lengths and minimizing path length differences. With mids on the dash you might have longer path lengths than doors, but the difference between lengths will still be great - plus eratic midrange reinforcement caused by the windshield can be a biach. It can work well, really well. Just a little harder. Dashmat is your friend in controlling reflections.
Also, just thought of it. You ever see those home theater towers that have the woofers firing straight up but right above them is a sphere to aid in dispersment? I wonder how that would work in the car enviroment for dash mounted speakers?
I look at all the scratches on my door panels and think of how much I want to hit my 4' 11" girlfriend who I have to keep reminding not to open the door with her feet. Luckily after I build some door panels, that won't be a possibility without putting a shoe through a speaker - which she know's I'll KILL her for.

Out of all of this though, I'm glad to hear you're not sticking with monsoon like you eluded to in another post.








oh shiat - time to order b440. I got lunch and totally forgot. I think with this renovation I'm going to do barrier strips at the front and rear with loomed, wrapped, and labled wires so any future changes won't require a complete rewire. shiat gets expensive though.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 1:03 PM 11-6-2007_


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

i was thinking about staying monsoon, because of the work of removing the amp and losing the crossovers blah blah blah, but then i realized i want to make my own crossovers, so i should sieze the opportunity. i made a spreadsheet to illustrate the costs per slope on each crossover, and the crossover network will cost more than the speakers...


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

are you doing multiple slopes/frequencies per crossover or making passives variable?
If I recall when my buddy was making passives, his cost per set was around $50 for a two way lowpass on the mids and highpass on the tweeters with 24db slopes and no zobel network. Then again he used behemoth resistors.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

18db slopes, hp on the tweeter, narrow bandpass for the mids, wide bandpass for the woofers, lp for the rear. zobel on the mids and woofers
in the interest of not doing it all more than once, i was looking for the highest quality components i could find. (not silver foil, just copper)
i worked out some rough crossover points with the drivers i was looking at, it just sat on madisound for an afternoon getting prices and quantities. when i nail down which drivers im going to use, ill get more specific on the points and slopes, and ill start ordering crossover components.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

for the record, this is what i worked up, price wise when i sat down to work out the crossovers.
http://www.aaronpatrickfinley....r.xls
at that point i was thinking paper cones, no matter what. obviously my choice of woofers is different, but that is my starting point. the worst part is the cost of xovers for the fill speakers. i like the 18db slopes i was running on my type-xs, but i think if i run the fill at a 6-12db slope i can save some real money, and maybe improve the blend with the fronts.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

Why not step down to 12db slopes? most passives are 12 anyway and you will save some cash on parts. Plus there won't be any funky 90 degree phase shifts. 
Also, if this is feasable... before building crossovers, install all the speakers but only hook up one speaker at a time. Mic it and see if it has any natural rolloffs. You might be able to get away with 6db or 12db or even no slopes on certain woofers if they naturally roll around the target frequency. Also gaping points can cut costs (a tiny bit). I'm sure you know this though .







granted you're probably going to end up with different crossover points/slopes on each set.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/...p?t=1
I'd be willing to go in on parts with ya' if you're interested. I have the true-RTA software already and a spare laptop I could ship down... LOL









_Modified by pwnt by pat at 8:31 PM 11-6-2007_


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 8:34 PM 11-6-2007_


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

its not. i get paid once a month, so one month ill buy the parts and start making the xovers, and by the time im finished, ill be able to buy the speakers. i'm gonna have to go by graphs, which is not too bad in the hifi world compared to the car audio world.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

*anything to avoid writing a paper for the morning*
a buddy of mine has a crossover design program that I might be able to get off of him. It plots system response, phase, delay, and allowes you to add any kind of filter, linkwitz transform, l-padding, and shelf uh... I forget. shelf filter I want to say. cool program. If you're interested, that is.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

i am


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

I'll ask him about it.

New PICS!
























wait, something looks like it's missing..... 








oh yeah, casulties

















they are sad to be at my house


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

that sucks. the stuff ive got from madisound were packed so well you couldve run them over with the car and they wouldve been fine. it sucks waiting for something only to have it come like that.
i do like the look of thos HDS tweeters, hmmm


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

Madisound already shipped me out some replacements. The hds tweets are actually a yellow dome with a tinting over them - very interesting.
I have new batteries so I figured why not:
something like where the tweets will be:


booyah:

goodbye my beloved horns:


never took a shot of the hatch yet....




in this rendition, the carpc will actually be organized, put in a custom aluminum chassis, and dropped in the tire well with the two batteries. 


This is what I call the same thing as one of my favorite chineese dishes: happy family



case baskets for everyone! (they're so sexy)


Aaron, if I bring supplies and equipment down, want to help me build a SQ car? There are a few mk2 jettas that are running in my area. I'm thinking ht-style towers in the front corners where the dash is (push the firewall back), extend seat rails so the front seats slide to where the backs are, and some other neat stuff.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 4:46 PM 11-7-2007_


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

once it warms up, hell yeah. i dont have a garage, and i hate working out side when its cold.
i cant remeber now if it was in this thread or not when you were mentioning reflectors over tweeters, check out the B&O system in the new A8s.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

I gotta talk the GF into going to law school in NC. It's nice and warm (well I'm sure your winter temp is what my garage is now - LOL t-shirt and fiberglassing weather)
that audi.... looks like my buddies Acura that I'm working on now. Those tweeter reflectors look interesting as well.
Oh and by mk2 jettas running I mean $500-600 jettas that run. Need spray paint, but at least we can set up IB.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

turns out the pillar idea is an absolute no-go. If I were going with small format tweeters I could do it, but the curtain airbag extends almost all the way down the pillar. Real shame. I would like to use the rainbow cal27s (I think that's the model) but they're rare and expensive.
Looks like the tweets will be going in the kicks with the mids.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

or you could buy a beetle....







(or an older g/j that doesnt have curtians)


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

Haha I thought you said g/f and I got really confused.
I actually think I just might push the airbag back and continue with the pillars. The airbag IS squishy afterall. I gotta find out how it fires. I'll be going to the jy with a dmm or 9v here in the next day or so to see what happens.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

i dont know man, i wouldnt want the airbag to hit me in the face with the bezel from a tweeter. or shoot a tweeter at me in an accident.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

I'm trying to find what happens when that bag blows. it might work - probably not. most likely not. I really don't want to put the tweets in the kicks again but if I must... kickpods just don't look as sexy with both speakers down there.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

it is my understanding that the airbags slide undearneath the piller along the door molding, so putting pods on the pillars should be okay. I think I'm going to do that anyway... LOL


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

one of my friends has the pillars off, and tommorow night im going out to dinner with him ill try and snap some pics for you.
you could just run a resistor and remove them. people remove the seats all the time, dont see how the curtians would be different.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

I don't know but I don't like the fact of removing the entire curtain airbag.... 
Also I couldn't find any info about using a resistor to delete it - found the seats yes.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

"in theory" its the same. of course, "in theory" isnt gonna reconstruct your face if i'm wrong and the airbag lodges a tweeter in your grill


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

yeah. You know the resistor values to delete the curtain airbags? lol
I so wish this weren't true. 
It would be my luck that if I built pods there anyway, the next day I would get hit by a brand new HDS tweeter.
side note:
do you remember the title of the movie where peopl stay in a hotel. then they watch movies and they're all gruesom murders. They realize the people in the movie are in the same room they're in?


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 2:06 AM 11-9-2007_


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

Vacancy?


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

yeah started torrenting like 3am... lol
I saw 1408 and it made me smile - made me think of vacancy.


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## charcoal grey (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

Pat, good choice of drivers. I also have a 3-way setup I am building for my MK2 using Peerless drivers. But I have to finish my wifes car first. I also like you power choice. Soundstream made great amps back in the day. I will be using old PPI amps, M and AM series (the square ones built prior to 91). I also have one of the art series amps which will be used for my subs. 
But I do have a question, why do you want to mount the tweeters so high? Expecially if the mids are in the kicks? I have have done several systems like this and felt that seperates the sound from the mid and tweet too much.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (charcoal grey)*

What were you using for processing? 
The reason for the high mounted tweeter is dispersion. There shouldn't be any issues as far as seperation of sound. 
The human ear localizes sound <~1-2khz via discrepencies in heard sound between the ears caused by diffraction across the face (acoustical crosstalk). The ear localizes sound ~1-2khz and up based on intensity. As long as intensities are equal and the mids are properly aimed, should be no problems.
Tweets wiill be in the kicks. I really don't want to risk a tweeter to the face when they'll be safe in the kick. I just hate leg diffraction - especially for tweeters.
edit: OH I have new pics.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 1:46 AM 11-10-2007_


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## charcoal grey (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

I just had passive x-overs. Nothing in the means of digital.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

just a little shot about the current state of my doors. That's 4 layers on the outside, three on the inside, and one on the inner door skin (door card)



Oh yeah, the sexy dyns:





_Modified by pwnt by pat at 2:20 AM 11-10-2007_


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

mutilated some kickpanels


Doing some cleaver cuts and pulling some wires gives a whole mess of space - all the way to the metal skin






to get the widest stage possible, you have to get the speakers as far back and as far out as possible. I think this helps.



Taping and the kick back in place. You can really see how far the woofer sits in.




doors with a new hole and some tape and fiberglass





and I mounted my small inverter (cell phone charger/laptop/etc)



_Modified by pwnt by pat at 8:35 PM 11-12-2007_


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 8:36 PM 11-12-2007_


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

nothing?
pulled the molds today. will get 3 layers of glass on each tomorrow after classes and before work. I'm so glad I stopped going to my fourth class. It was such a waste of time I could be spending fiberglassing.

also got a new package - 1 gallon of b440 from uscomposites as well as 3 yards of cloth fiberglass for a smooth finishing layer on the doors and pods.
Also, going back on a tight schedule - the week off of one job was good for me, but now I'm short on monies. Plus a modded gli just crashed into my junkyard so I'm going to go pull their suspension and brakes all the way around for a nice little upgrade from the 7.4 (or whatever) solid rears and 11 vented fronts to 12.3" vented front and 11" rears.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 12:34 AM 11-14-2007_


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

i'm just lurking.


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## charcoal grey (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

Looks good so far. Did you remove the sound deadening material or are you working on a different set of doors?


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (charcoal grey)*

right door wasn't deadened... never had time. I started there. I'll be removing deadener from the left door to glass.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

I had about three hours of work time today. I couldn't find my cap so I borrowed my sisters. I bought a patternmakers bit as well as a 1/8" spiral upcut straight bit. The spiral upcut bit is the only router bit I've EVER feared.
Like my hat? 

This is something nobody should EVER be without.

So I made these:



There are 4 total. two for the bases and two for the grill-rings.
Two became these:



And two became these. These aren't done yet, I need to cut the peaks out (but my jigsaw blade broke). I also need to get a 1/8" rabbet bit. The outside is going to get 1/4" roundover and inside going to be 1/8" rabbit for the ABS grill.



And then these. a perfect fit, as expected.




And this is how my night ended.

I did run into a couple of problems.
1) the patternmakers bit I bought from Lowes (for like $24) was a piece of **** and broke on me - have to return it tomorrow. My flush trim bit cut so much better and is dull as hell.
2)lack of bits, as described
3) I took a blast of sawdust straight to the eye - stupid careless mistake on my part.
tomorrow night is an allnighter while I make some more panels.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

So I took some time yesterday. I wanted to build something, but didn't feel like working on the car. I replaced my seats with leather and thought making an extra shop-seat for when my friends hang out would be a good idea. It also helps that I found some rot-wood laying around so everything was free, so why not. I have to add supports for the back as the wood would rather split than hold even the most modest weight.



Oh yeah, and I got these finished:


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## erikwithak84 (Jun 12, 2007)

we have to meet up I gotta check out how it sounds and on the same token you can here my focal setup with an active crossovers network


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (2jzge02)*

Mapquest says its a 5 hour drive, I wouldn't mind making a trip to Harrisburgh with my girl one day this summer, I'm sure. It'll be educational or something... heh. That or penn state main or something


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## VeeDub_L_U (Feb 3, 2003)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

looking good pat...i'm sure this will sound pretty amazing. like i said earlier, those are my favorite tweeters and I can say from personal experience that they will not let you down


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (VeeDub_L_U)*

Since you have experience with them, how do they sound compaired on-axis to off-axis? the only way I could currently audition them is to build a set of passive crossovers and that's just not feasable. 
I know dome midranges are terrible on-axis, and some dome tweeters are better slightly off/way off axis. I'm just that because the excels have substantial breakup (read: may be replaced with NX version lateron







) I'll have to keep the midranges fairly off-axis, which because of the baffle, would put the tweeters dead-on axis for the opposite listener. If that makes any sense - I just woke up from class


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## VeeDub_L_U (Feb 3, 2003)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

haha well I'm not sure how much help I'll be. I have them in my home theater application, and have them sort of horn loaded so I won't be much help with on/off axis.
you can try reading this: http://www.customanalogue.com/...5.htm That may help you a bit.


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## erikwithak84 (Jun 12, 2007)

how bout waterfest


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (2jzge02)*

I shall try and make it. I know a buddy of mine who would go with me as well. Hopefully the turbo will be done by then (because if it isn't, the misses won't like that when we move. She doesn't know - LOL)
That link was pretty interesting. Seems off axis is definitely better for the hds, as I assumed. I'll see if I can't bum my buddies h701 real quick (shame I sold mine but had to fund the new gear somehow) and set up an IB testbed here in my room with a standard open-rear baffle dampened by a comforter... heh just for a taste. Hopefully radioshack has the electronics necessary for a simple 12db/o slope for each woofer/tweeter.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 1:34 PM 12-3-2007_


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (2jzge02)*

So I did some more work.
Because of the hood realease, the drivers side has much little room. However, so much more room is made by removing the retaining clip that holds the harnessses in place.

So I taped it up, trimmed a spare panel (from a jetta - doesn't seem to match up right at the runner) and ran into a little problem




no problem


tadaa


and had to trim the carpet. but if I need to return the car to stock, I can

look how good she fits


and just a cool shot


I would have taped and glassed the drivers kick but the tape wasn't sticking because it was cold/damp/rainy. I finished adding glass to the base and back of the passenger kick and door-mold. 6 layers total on the door, 4 total on the kick 3/4oz chop. nice and sturdy. tomorrow night I'll hopefully get to play with aiming the passenger kick - oh my!


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 11:52 PM 12-3-2007_


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

skipped classes today - snowing and going driving isn't necessarily not safe but I have to take a lot of backroads - not worth it. almost have all the pc software finalized "for now". IE until I win a limited edition sound card that just popped up on ebay and I get it. In the mean time, a 3.5mm to rca adapter will work "well enough". at leas the media player application works.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

which sound card are you looking at? i did pc based recording for awhile. a recording interface may be something worth looking into. while they are designed for multiple channels in, they also provide studio quality multi channel out. a few even have DSP built into the breakout box.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (afinley)*

Auzentech x-meridian 7.1 with upgraged LM4562 opamps. 
basically what I'm going to need is 8-10 channels with asio and compatibiltiy with "virtual audio cable" or (can't remember the name) "bitpath?" or any kind of software kernal streaming spdif loopback. 
I need to route a signal to a VST console so I can run some filters, then back out the analog outputs on the soundcard. The X-meridian works with Virtual Audio Cable, as well as plug and play functionality with Frequency Allocated and Phase Arbitrator softwarez.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

just nabbed me an M-Audio 1010LT pro audio soundcard for cheap (like $75 off retail). Gonna see if I can 'Bay me another one so I'll have 16 channels out output.
also found myself two rubicon 302s in great shape.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 2:25 PM 12-14-2007_


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (pwnt by pat)*

Hey Pat, doing tweeter pods are perfectly safe. The pillar swings out, towards the window when the bag fires. That is what the "b*tch clips" are for. This is the same reason why doing boost guages on the pillars are fine. As long as your pods are solidly attached, as I'm sure they will be, then you will be fine.


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## afinley (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (JDriver1.8t)*

whats the worst that can happen, youll have Peerless stamped backwards on your face. you'd get street cred.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: so yet another total overhaul.... (JDriver1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JDriver1.8t* »_Hey Pat, doing tweeter pods are perfectly safe. The pillar swings out, towards the window when the bag fires. That is what the "b*tch clips" are for. This is the same reason why doing boost guages on the pillars are fine. As long as your pods are solidly attached, as I'm sure they will be, then you will be fine.

Looking behind the pillar you'll notice the bag goes down to about the same level as the top of the gauge cluster. Optimal position is about 1.5-2 inches above the gauge cluster. Bag is in the way. This isn't a problem for SFF tweeters, but LFF like the HDS is just no good.








edit:
just bought an Opus 320w powersupply for my dual core carputer.
just bought 2x rubicon 302s with the flat heatsink.
bought my girl a PDA for x-mas and lawschool next fall.
bought.... something else...
I'm looking at alarms and remote starts again (mostly remote starts)... yikes


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 4:02 AM 12-15-2007_


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## LaZyFLiP (May 25, 2005)

What hardware will you be running on the new carputer?
Also for the alarm/remote starts, I'd suggest DEI. I've also been looking at CompuStar Pro line but I haven't heard anything about them yet so I can't say anthing about them yet.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (LaZyFLiP)*

I was thinking the VX791 (I think it's VX). Remote start and alarm. good combo. I can wire up all the power windows to roll up and ***** without the extra modules too. Easy enough with enough relays.
For the carputer:
Intel 4300 dual core 1.8ghz
1gb ram (will most likely cut back to 512 - we'll see how hibernate times are)
M-Audio 1010LT 8 chanel (analog) professional mixing sound card. - might get a second if I can find one cheap (first was $125







for 8 channels, ASIO, and pro level card)
Visteon HDZoom hd radio
Opus 330w powersupply (15a nominal, 22a peak on 12v line - largest DC-DC psu with S/S controller I could find)
Roadrunner with winamp and ASIO and a custom front end
Software:
VST console
frequency allocator
phase arbitrator
64 band GEQ
Voxenago software (time delay, impuse response, tube distortion adder)
Waves 5 mercury
non-important stuff:
WD 80gb notebook drive
Linksys wirelessB USB card
Holux Gr217 (I think) gps antenna
micro keyboard
usb VAG com
kensington bluetooth
some laptop slotload dvd drive

also am tossing around the idea of putting the carputer in the monsoon area if it'll fit, and making the tempests AP vent into the tire well... I don't know how that'll work out though. We'll see. I gotta tear the old false floor out.

If anyone is looking for a dc-dc powersupply, my old opus 120w is no longer needed and FS.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 11:30 PM 12-15-2007_


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## LaZyFLiP (May 25, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_I was thinking the VX791 (I think it's VX). Remote start and alarm. good combo. I can wire up all the power windows to roll up and ***** without the extra modules too. Easy enough with enough relays.


Do you mean the DEI Viper 791XV? If so, that's what I have right now and it works great. Yea, I have a diagram for that window roll up/down. If we're talking about the same thing you should only need one relay.

_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_
For the carputer:
Intel 4300 dual core 1.8ghz
1gb ram (will most likely cut back to 512 - we'll see how hibernate times are)
M-Audio 1010LT 8 chanel (analog) professional mixing sound card. - might get a second if I can find one cheap (first was $125







for 8 channels, ASIO, and pro level card)
Visteon HDZoom hd radio
Opus 330w powersupply (15a nominal, 22a peak on 12v line - largest DC-DC psu with S/S controller I could find)
Roadrunner with winamp and ASIO and a custom front end


That's some serious hardware there.









_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_
Software:
VST console
frequency allocator
phase arbitrator
64 band GEQ
Voxenago software (time delay, impuse response, tube distortion adder)
Waves 5 mercury


So you'll be moving to processing your audio thru the computer now? I'm still doing my research on this topic. I also need to save up some money but funds are a little limited being a college kid.
I'm looking for a new set of components and a matching amp to replace my stockers. Nothing too fancy as they will just be placed in the stock locations.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (LaZyFLiP)*

Yeah, that's what I ment. It's been so long since I've done _any_ research. All I know is if I search "viper 791" it gives me all the info I need. The window schematic would be awesome.







Did you need any of the extra hardware for anything? Basically all I care about is being able to roll up/down the windows, close the sunroof (if possible) and trigger the factory alarm. I have a "backup" battery in the trunk that is not possible to get to without about 20 minutes of work, if you know where it is LOL.
the hardware is overkill, that's for sure. But it's what I had in my room as my desk computer. I'm _considering_ getting a 775 itx motherboard as mounting would be easier. I could only find ONE model that had pci. I probably won't persue it, however. They're expensive (LOL?)

_Quote, originally posted by *LaZyFLiP* »_
Do you mean the DEI Viper 791XV? If so, that's what I have right now and it works great. Yea, I have a diagram for that window roll up/down. If we're talking about the same thing you should only need one relay.
That's some serious hardware there.








So you'll be moving to processing your audio thru the computer now? I'm still doing my research on this topic. I also need to save up some money but funds are a little limited being a college kid.
My buddy has my old Eclipse 3242 sitting in my basemet if you're interested







[email protected] 13.6v
I'm looking for a new set of components and a matching amp to replace my stockers. Nothing too fancy as they will just be placed in the stock locations.


I got the left side taped up and will be glassing tomorrow morning, 8am. Right right side had minor shrinking so I cut it in half, retaped, realigned, bolted it to the car, and will glass over the small gap in the morning as well. Now I'm going to put the GLI trim kit in... before work.









_Modified by pwnt by pat at 3:30 PM 12-16-2007_


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 3:31 PM 12-16-2007_


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## LaZyFLiP (May 25, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

*Window roll up/down schematic for Viper 791XV.*


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (LaZyFLiP)*

That is down right awesome.
Does it do the sunroof too? like when you put the key in the door and turn and hold it'll open and close everything?

Oh, something else I decided to do for this install, since remaking the inner door skin is going to give me about 2" of map pocket on the driver side, and 4" on the passenger side, I'm just deleting the map pockets. I'm also deleting the fuel tank flap and trunk unlocking panel on the drivers side. I'm going to rewire the child safty button so that when it's engaged (down), the rear passenger window switches on my drivers door panel will open the hatch and fuel tank flap and trunk. When disengaged (up), the switches will function the rear windows. quite clevar if you ask me, and it uses only a single DPDT relay.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 10:40 PM 12-16-2007_


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

The opus amazingly got delivered today so the carputer is back in the car running the dual core processor. However, instead of playing any sound, it just beeps at me. I probably have to do a bios reset and reinstall the sound drivers but I don't have time to piss with it. Gotta pick the G/F up from the airport soon.
oy.
edit:
it lives, all one speaker.


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 7:32 PM 12-17-2007_


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## LaZyFLiP (May 25, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_That is down right awesome.
Does it do the sunroof too? like when you put the key in the door and turn and hold it'll open and close everything?


I haven't actually done this yet so I'm not sure if it does the sunroof too.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (LaZyFLiP)*

testing the hd tuner and new sound card. look at all 'em cables




decided to glass the back of the foot panel

didn't like the way the gray piece fit so I cut out an old black one and cut the glass


look at how much room is back there when you move the hood release and clip retaining piece


test fitting:

covering up the hood realease handle hole




noticed that someone must have hit my front bumper....



and glassed in place



off to work



_Modified by pwnt by pat at 3:44 PM 1-5-2008_


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## crnacnac (Aug 3, 2004)

Nice work Pat. You inspired me to get off my a$$ and get started on my kicks.
I'm sure others, along with myself appreciate the R&D.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (crnacnac)*

I got what appears the aiming to be as good as I can without having "enclosures". It's a real shame how much changes when the rear wave can be isolated.
Anyway here we go. No fiberglassing tonight. Starting trunk tear-down. Removing the small starting battery and isolator. Going single-battery setup. Need the "wheel well space"






















left side isn't nearly as "large" as it looks.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

I just want to add.
Issues you will cross when making kicks: 
1) passenger side footwell is smaller than drivers
2) radio console is aimed towards driver - sticked out more on the right side than left (not symmetrical)
3) window reflections, use them to your advantage! There is a crazy difference between hands on the wheel at 10-2 and 8-4! 
4) passengers kick is farther away from the passenger than the drivers kick is from the driver
5) drivers side "airspace" is higher than passenger
6) remove those damn white clips - they just get in the way
7) drivers dead-pedal sucks.
8) hood release sucks
9) gloveboxes suck.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

need 1.5 layers on the passenger side and a little touchup on the drivers side.


----------

