# what makes one FMIC better than the other?



## HCK757 (Mar 31, 2007)

Really the title says it all I'm looking at getting a fmic for my 1.8t but I dont know what makes one better than the other what what kind of specs I should be looking for. 
Thanks


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

HCK757 said:


> Really the title says it all I'm looking at getting a fmic for my 1.8t but I dont know what makes one better than the other what what kind of specs I should be looking for.
> Thanks


 I'm no expert, but quality of welds, materials, and fin count I would think. 

Are some higher priced intercoolers better and more efficient? Yes 

I run 11.5's and likely make over 400whp w/ a 27x7x2.5" $89 shipped cxracing.com IC. 

What power are you looking to make?


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## HCK757 (Mar 31, 2007)

Im really not trying to make more than 250 or 300 right now i have this stuff done to the engine: 
Unitronic stage 2 
Carbonio Cold Air 
Forge 007 Diverter valve 
Forge black turbo inlet pipe 
NewSouth Performance power gasket 
Eurojet 3 inch turboback exhaust 

Id rather not upgrade the turbo/downpipe right now but im curious if its worth to just wait and do it all at once. Also what do you think about some of the new intake manifolds they have out


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## swagger rob (Aug 13, 2009)

slcturbo said:


> make over 400whp w/ a 27x7x2.5" $89 shipped cxracing.com IC.


 :thumbup: 

I bought a CX core about 3 years ago and it has held up nicely since. Welds are good on it, it does what it's supposed to.


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## HCK757 (Mar 31, 2007)

Is there a place to just buy the piping and joints? I'm not sure of the exact specifications I need


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

HCK757 said:


> Is there a place to just buy the piping and joints? I'm not sure of the exact specifications I need


 www.cxracing.com 

www.siliconeintakes.com 

For 250-300whp run the IC I am or one similar to it.


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

I wouldn't buy a core that didn't have turbulators inside and out. Those are the wavy crimps in the fins that make the air bounce around and take more heat out. 

Luckily I don't think any name brand makers produce without turbulators. That will be the main difference I think with any good one and a real cheapo.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

pics of the turbulators???


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## HCK757 (Mar 31, 2007)

16V VW said:


> pics of the turbulators???


 google?


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

-Shape / flowpotential of the endtanks 
-Core density


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## Bacon11 (Jan 20, 2010)

What about bar/plate vs tube/fin designs?


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## BoostedDubVR6T420 (Dec 4, 2009)

Presicion IC have are very well designed and offer optimum cooling. I have also heard good and bad about Cx cores, but high amounts of boost have been known to blow welds on those cores.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

BoostedDubVR6T420 said:


> Presicion IC have are very well designed and offer optimum cooling. I have also heard good and bad about Cx cores, but high amounts of boost have been known to blow welds on those cores.


 Really? Who specifically has had issues w/ cxracing cores? I've never heard anything negative from anyone using one.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

This should cover everything mentioned...(half way down the page)


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> This should cover everything mentioned...(half way down the page)


 Conclusion: A lot of the aftermarket stuff sold out there is bull**** 
Verry nice blog!


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

That is a nice blog from a single person that seems to work for a parts distributor that sells certain brand IC's. Not saying he doesn't make some good points or know his stuff, but not gospel or all encompassing by any means. 

Here's a thread from awhile back. Countless posts from guys using cxracing intercoolers w/ no issues including a 505whp integra, a low 9sec. DSM, and many 400whp vw's. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4131635-ebay-intercoolers&highlight=ebay+intercoolers 

I run the very intercooler that that blog called "pathetic". Apparently no one told my car. Trapping 128mph on a 42# tune and driven home from the track everytime 3 yrs. running. 

Same old same old. Someone trying to use science to call a certain product crap so they can sell you something more expensive. Doesn't work when so many are using them w/out issue:beer: 

Back to back dyno or 1/4 mile #'s by someone w/out an agenda would sway me. Otherwise I'll keep on maxing turbos and injectors w/ cxracing intercoolersumpkin:


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

I think you missed the point and just like you said, he's just 1 person....like you. 

He was saying the design was pathetic, not the brand. FYI, he works as a engine builder & fabricator. And he's not building a VW so he's speaking in terms of whats good for his setup. 


I think what he say's makes perfect sense. "It's not how big the IC is, It how many fins..." So you would want a shorter tube length and more tube count. Look at the Sparco. Short tube length and 3x the amount of tubes then the others he posted. If the IC is only efficent within the first few inches, why not have more fins. More = better cooling. 


Example


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## oxley364 (Nov 12, 2008)

I have a eurojet street setup and I just got uni stage 2 and I was told I was better off running stock intercooler until I go BT. I noticed after installing my fmic that I have a lot more lag. If anything, I would look for a nice side mount. Just my 2 cents.


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

+ more air being able to flow through the core. 

SlC i think you need to see it from a different perspective. 
See it this way: your setup works fine, ok. But their is a chance that there is a more efficient way of doing it.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

pimS said:


> + more air being able to flow through the core.
> 
> SlC i think you need to see it from a different perspective.
> See it this way: your setup works fine, ok. But their is a chance that there is a more efficient way of doing it.


 I see it exactly from his perspective. 

What I don't think alot of people understand is what the term "limiting factor" means nor do they apply it to their builds. They simply label things as "better" or "junk". How is an IC "pathetic" that let's you make 400whp reliably for $89 shipped or 600whp for $120 shipped? 

What I'm saying is that most will make as much power as their goals, turbo, and or inj. will handle using these intercoolers. I maxed my 30# inj. using this intercooler. At 128mph I'm likely making over 400whp and close to turbo/inj. max. The intercooler isn't holding me back and if it were I would run a different one from the same company. 

Always ask what the higher priced item will allow you to do. On a 30, 36, or 42# chipped car a higher priced IC wouldn't do anything for you. 

Case in point. Search Mikebobelak. Same turbo compressor, same exact chip and inj, same slick, same gearing, cams, ~similar weight. He ran an SRI and a big precision IIRC. Think he trapped ~125-126mph. I trap ~126-128mph. Why isn't his car faster? It's a better IC, but it's not translating into more power or a higher trap speed. 

All out big power build and sure you're gonna need to pull out all the stops, but you're typical 300-400 whp chip tuned car will max inj w/ one of these intercoolers.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

pimS said:


> SlC i think you need to see it from a different perspective.
> See it this way: your setup works fine, ok. But their is a chance that there is a more efficient way of doing it.


 Maybe so, but there' another type of efficiency to consider if you aren't loaded. It's called cost. 

Some guys spend $10-$15k to make ~400whp and some spend $3-4k. 

The dyno and timeslip can't tell the difference between the two. 

Again, not putting down anyone's choice, but if you are going to support a blanket statement that an IC is "pathetic" then I'm going to point out that it's working on numerous 400-600whp builds for those that wanna do a budget build or have limited funds which is most of us IMO:beer:


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

i'm also limited by my budget building my vrt. 
But thats not the point of this thread, the OP asked what defined a good IC. 
That blog say's it. Now if he would've used another discription, like: less efficient, you wouldn't really care. but he'd still be right.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

He's looking for an IC for his 1.8T. Odds are it's not a drag car looking to make 800whp.

A cxracing intercooler will work fine on his setup as they are working fine on many 300-600whp, reliable cars. That's the truth. A blog w/ some theory and an ignorant "pathetic" slight doesn't change what the dyno or timeslips say. 

Turning into an argument and I've made my point so I'm out:thumbup:


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

slcturbo said:


> I see it exactly from his perspective.
> 
> What I don't think alot of people understand is what the term "limiting factor" means nor do they apply it to their builds. They simply label things as "better" or "junk". How is an IC "pathetic" that let's you make 400whp reliably for $89 shipped or 600whp for $120 shipped?
> 
> ...


See....you are still stuck on the whole "Pathetic" thing. You are STILL missing the point. Before i get into that though,....

You cannot compare your car to someone elses unless you drove his car on the same day exactly the way you drove yours to get the numbers mentioned. You're asking how are you faster? Did you ever think that his gearing might be different. maybe he mis shifted...there are endless factors as to why you ran faster. Thats not the case in this thread.

Ok..i get it..you live buy CX's FMIC, i respect that. The thing is that guy has "experience" in getting every little bit out of whatever setup he's running. You can't expect everyone to be gungho on CX FMIC. Thats the beautiful thing about this country...freedom of opinion. If Garrett did a test and concluded that after testing CX, Prec., Garrett and Sparco....and the Sparco was more efficient...I would trust their findings. This guys blog is no different. He did an independent test along with his knowledge concluded that the design is garbage...Not saying it won't work but if you want to get every bit out of your turbo setup, change the IC.

FYI, you can get a Treadstone like the Sparco the guy posted in his blog for under $300. No need to spend Precision/Garrett/Sparco money on the same design.

If CX works for you then thats all that matters. I have one myself if that eases your mind. I'm going for one thats a little more efficient then the one i have. Nothing wrong with squeezing a little more and maintaining my pressure at the same time. I too am building on a budget but i rather ave a little more for a better setup. 

Doing it right>being cheap anyday...


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Doing it right and doing it cheap FTW. 

I'm not missing any point. I'm merely making my own. My setup has ran it's azz off and been dead reliable w/ a cxracing intercooler as have others. People should know that and come to their own conclusions. 

How many VW's do you know run 11's, are drag raced regularly, and haven't broken anything in 3years. There aren't many. If something on my setup was junk those 3 things simply couldn't happen.

Again, buy whatever intercooler you want. I'm sure those expensive intercoolers are very good and worth the $$. I'm simply stating that my experience has been a positive one with an IC that was $89 shipped:beer:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Again, the other thing you aren't getting is what the term "limiting factor" means. Forget about intercoolers for a moment.

Is a $1500 ball bearing GT35 turbo more efficient than a t04 60-1 $600 journal bearing T-series? Absolutely. If my setup is a 30# or 42# chip tune will the car be any faster or make more power? Absolutely not. The turbo isn't the "limiting factor" of the setup so the fact that it's "better" is a moot point.

The limiting factor is the fueling. You'll get there with both turbos. One may need more boost, but so what.

Just an example. You gotta look at the goals and entire setup to determine if the "better" component is gonna do anything for ya. I already gave an example of another 42# car setup very similar, but with a big precision IC. It wasn't any faster. Maybe on a standalone car he could have added a few more degrees of timing than me. I'll concede that as a possibility, but I don't speak for standalone cars b/c I don't have one.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Before i finish reading your comment..i just want you to know that i'm not trying to be a dick or start an argument...i just love a good debate.....


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Ok....

I think you are mis underatanding. When making a IC choice..people usually doing while building...UNLESS like in his case, he replaced the factory unit with an aftermarket one.

Also, most people that look into getting the best out of an IC generally do so due to limited room. So if i have a 400hp IC and i max the limits of said IC, i'd look for a better design that will flow more in the same package (size). So i can have a 600hp IC the size of, if not smaller then the 400hp one....I'm sure this makes sense to you. This was my point. And you're talking about going bigger...why? I rather have a cooler with less pressure drop then having to compensate with more boost because i got a larger IC. Now that doesn't make since....I guess "Bigger isn't better" saying would come into play...


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

slcturbo said:


> www.cxracing.com
> 
> www.siliconeintakes.com
> 
> For 250-300whp run the IC I am or one similar to it.


I picked up one of CXRacing's FMIC w/universal piping kits for my 20/20t conversion..... $180 shipped and it's pretty nice stuff. The piping is not chromed and 2mm thick so it will actually weld nicely and you would swear it was made to fit my Corrado. I'm only going to have to cut 2 pipes for a very clean install.


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

I just wan't to point out one more thing.

That blog is in NO way brand specific. *he is only pointing out specivic IC designs*, not by what brand they are and that cheap core's are less eficient blablabla 

-Like he point's out: long narrow IC will have smal flow area because of the limited amount of ducts, this is in no way brand specific but count's for all brands.
-IC with large amount of ports will flow significantly more air.

Almost everyone is like: well i'll take a wide core. that'l cool the air better. he's just pointing out that we should also be looking at possible airflow through the core.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

yet another thread where slc....knows everything and comments on how much he spent to go 11's vs other people
same old same old
:facepalm:


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

well i will say from experience, i had a 28x7x2.5 intercooler from cxracing on my supercharged R for about 15 mins, with that intercooler on i could almost get 1 psi, ditched the intercooler and did nothing else to the car and made 6 psi..... that's what happens when you don't have a turbo to make up for the pressure drop.


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## mars2 (Sep 16, 2008)

Very intrest in pressure drop as also using SC on R32.
So that one should have very litle pressure drop?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRa...Q5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_5393wt_1167


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

pimS said:


> -Shape / flowpotential of the endtanks
> -Core density


basically it will all boil down to effficiency.
More efficient flow, cooling, etc, will result in increased power for specific appilcations. Meaning bigger is not always better, you'll need to match a suited core/endtake design/size to your setup (which is difficult to make perfect but many will 'work' fine)

Dimensionally, height, length, and thickness is difficult to predict which is always best, only because the core has the most surface area for cooling does not mean the flow internally is good. Think of a core which is very tall but very thin, because of its frontal area its cooling efficiency should be good, but because the air has to move such a long distance inside/through the core its internal flow will not be very good in comparison to shorter thicker cores....hope that makes sense:beer:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> yet another thread where slc....knows everything and comments on how much he spent to go 11's vs other people
> same old same old
> :facepalm:


Another thread where you contribute nothing.

I'm giving advice to the OP based on MY experience so yes I do know about the things I speak of. 

You can go 9's, 10's, 11's reliably with a CX racing IC. That's a fact and that's basically all I've said.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Prof315 said:


> I picked up one of CXRacing's FMIC w/universal piping kits for my 20/20t conversion..... $180 shipped and it's pretty nice stuff. The piping is not chromed and 2mm thick so it will actually weld nicely and you would swear it was made to fit my Corrado. I'm only going to have to cut 2 pipes for a very clean install.


Awesome. It is very nice stuff. 

Hey we should forward this thread to the guy running 9's at 145mph in his dsm. Apparently he doesn't know his IC doesn't work:laugh:

I love vortex. Sheep following other sheep.


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

slcturbo said:


> Awesome. It is very nice stuff.
> 
> Hey we should forward this thread to the guy running 9's at 145mph in his dsm. Apparently he doesn't know his IC doesn't work:laugh:
> 
> I love vortex. Sheep following other sheep.



would you just read for once in your life!

*It's not the BRAND of IC you use it's the SHAPE of it*

You keep babling about your cx ic. But no-one here says all cx ic's suck.

If HKS makes an 30x4x3 core it's crap
if an ebay core is 30x4x3 it's also crap
etc etc.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

pimS said:


> would you just read for once in your life!
> 
> *It's not the BRAND of IC you use it's the SHAPE of it*


 He's just mad because he drives a hairdressers car


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> He's just mad because he drives a hairdressers car


I dont follow your posts, you follow mine so perhaps you're the one that's mad?

Couldn't be happier w/ my car/build. Just letting people know what's possible without spending big bucks for the vortex required parts (standalone, GT turbo, sri, name IC).

If that offends someone they must be second guessing their choices which is unfortunate.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

pimS said:


> would you just read for once in your life!
> 
> *It's not the BRAND of IC you use it's the SHAPE of it*
> 
> ...


Volvo OE intercoolers for the P1 platform (S40, V50, C30) are very long and short with end tanks. I'll get some measurements when I can. Maybe their engineers should read that blog. 

Avoid generalizations. Each build/setup will undoubtedly require a different level of components to reach their goals especially when cost is considered.

Are gold terminals better? Is an aluminum water pipe on a VR better than the OE plastic? Why weren't they used?


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

slcturbo said:


> Volvo OE intercoolers for the P1 platform (S40, V50, C30) are very long and short with end tanks. I'll get some measurements when I can. Maybe their engineers should read that blog.
> 
> Avoid generalizations. Each build/setup will undoubtedly require a different level of components to reach their goals especially when cost is considered.
> 
> Are gold terminals better? Is an aluminum water pipe on a VR better than the OE plastic? Why weren't they used?


1. The volvo engineers don't need to make a high eficiency power house.
They work within strict cost and design regulations, we cut a hole in a bumper to fit parts, they need to stay within design measurements.
2. You are totally missing the point, we're pointing out what the most efficient way is not what fits a specific car. thats what the OP asked for, nothing was asked about cost! Just what worked!
3. Would you buy a golf with 170HP if it cost $70.000? NO. Thats why they don't use the verry best.

Please is it really impossible for you to think outside of the box? You keep sticking to the cost story, thats not what was asked for!


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Give up pimS. You can't convince the ignorant. 

BTW, where did a 9sec. DSM come from? :sly: And WTF does his IC have to with running 9's....hahaha.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> I dont follow your posts, you follow mine so perhaps you're the one that's mad?
> 
> Couldn't be happier w/ my car/build. Just letting people know what's possible without spending big bucks for the vortex required parts (standalone, GT turbo, sri, name IC).
> 
> If that offends someone they must be second guessing their choices which is unfortunate.


:facepalm:


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

pimS said:


> 1. The volvo engineers don't need to make a high eficiency power house.
> They work within strict cost and design regulations, we cut a hole in a bumper to fit parts, they need to stay within design measurements.
> 2. You are totally missing the point, we're pointing out what the most efficient way is not what fits a specific car. thats what the OP asked for, nothing was asked about cost! Just what worked!
> 3. Would you buy a golf with 170HP if it cost $70.000? NO. Thats why they don't use the verry best.
> ...


you hit it right on the head.....
are we really comparing to OEM designs 
Unless you work for an OEM, you really don't understand the design limitations and compromises design engineers go through, especially to save PENNYS!!! (not all OEM are created equal)


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

i just took out my garbage one and put in a precision 600hp

im of course at 26 psi and the old junk core could flow 17psi then creep to 26 now it's BAM 26

OLD










NEW


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

last pic doesn't work


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

fixed :thumbup:


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## israelvzla (Aug 1, 2010)

mars2 said:


> Very intrest in pressure drop as also using SC on R32.
> So that one should have very litle pressure drop?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRa...Q5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_5393wt_1167


 I think these kind of intercoolers will produce less lag, but it´s efficiency is less due to the fac it will give to the air cooling less compared to a longer intercooler, a cheap ebay intercooler work good, but a good brand intercooler will work better, but why? a good brand intercooler normally uses mixed materials like 6061-t6, h14, and steel, a cheap one only use one of its materials, so is not the same fabricate a 3003-h14 aluminum core and fins of a 25" lenght intercooler compared to a steel intercooler of the same features.

In my case I would choose cheap intercooler because I have no deep pockets.

Just opinions, corrections and suggestions are accepted


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

israelvzla said:


> I think these kind of intercoolers will produce less lag, but it´s efficiency is less due to the fac it will give to the air cooling less compared to a longer intercooler


100% incorrect. 

Z flow intercoolers are way more efficient than a straight horizontal intercooler. In fact, its something like 80% of the cooling is done by the first 4 inches of an intercooler. So when you look at a Z flow (or vertical), look at how much of it's area is at peak efficiency, versus a horizontal flow that has very little surface area at peak efficiency.

:beer:

p.s. i've never seen an intercooler made out of various materials like you've described. I mean, good luck welding the steel components to the aluminum. Plus there is no place in an intercooler where steel would be the better material to use.



israelvzla said:


> r compared to a steel intercooler of the same features.


would love to see a steel intercooler. opcorn:


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## israelvzla (Aug 1, 2010)

TBT-Syncro said:


> 100% incorrect.
> 
> 
> p.s. i've never seen an intercooler made out of various materials like you've described. I mean, good luck welding the steel components to the aluminum. Plus there is no place in an intercooler where steel would be the better material to use.
> ...


I didn´t mean mixing aluminum and steel, I mean aluminum alloys, and maybe Z flow are better, what I said was just an opinion, maybe the intercooler that you are describing keeps the air catched, compressed for a little more time to coole it than a horizontal one, and I think that depends on desing

You can see steel intercoolers, not frecuently, I think there´s some brand that make kits

and I´m sorry for my bad english


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> Give up pimS. You can't convince the ignorant.
> 
> BTW, where did a 9sec. DSM come from? :sly: And WTF does his IC have to with running 9's....hahaha.


What specifically have I said that is ignorant? Be specific

The 9sec. DSM reference is from the link I posted. A friend of the person that posted runs 9's at 145 w/ a CX racing intercooler which means what ~600whp? I also run a cxracing IC so that's what it has to do with it.

I think it's kinda ignorant to not consider a $100 intercooler if someone is achieving similar goals to yours on a similar setup and they're using one.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

HCK757 said:


> Really the title says it all I'm looking at getting a fmic for my 1.8t but I dont know what makes one better than the other what what kind of specs I should be looking for.
> Thanks


This is what was asked. In other words, general advice on an intercooler purchase.

Name one thing you purchase where cost is not a factor? Who on here builds a car with no cost constraint? Are you serious?

Thanks for the Volvo reply. You are supporting my argument. That every application will have a different power goal, cost basis, size constraint, and therefore require a different intercooler to achieve those goals.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> you hit it right on the head.....
> are we really comparing to OEM designs
> Unless you work for an OEM, you really don't understand the design limitations and compromises design engineers go through, especially to save PENNYS!!! (not all OEM are created equal)


Just illustrating that different applications require different intercoolers in regards to size, efficiency, etc.

I know you aren't a cool kid on Vortex unless you have a Schimmel awic or a Precision 600hp core, but the fact is some cars just don't need them. 

Trapping 128mph with a TINY CXracing intercooler. If it were really that bad wouldn't my car have blown up by now? Wouldn't other 42# cars be trapping much higher? It isn't and they aren't.

There are many possibilities outside of what Vortex holds as gospel. Open your mind.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> Just illustrating that different applications require different intercoolers in regards to size, efficiency, etc.
> 
> I know you aren't a cool kid on Vortex unless you have a Schimmel awic or a *Precision 600hp core,* but the fact is some cars just don't need them.
> 
> ...


hey i got my precision for 100 bucks! i swear..... i still have the stock mani "allthough i want a SRI for shorter pipe route", a 5 year old turbo that makes fun multi color smoke, replica wheels, and a greddy type s BOV recirc cause i just used what was avalible at a reasonable cost

i only have 3,800 bucks into my car with the most expencive part being the LM-2 and the Greddy Pro-Fec EBC.


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## vwgolfracer26 (Nov 3, 2003)

I did my build with a 600hp precision intercooler because i can. I like quality parts. Plus peace of mind. My brother turboed his camaro and used an ebay intercooler. After 3 months the top of the intercooler is starting to rust  seriously!


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

16V VW said:


> hey i got my precision for 100 bucks! i swear..... i still have the stock mani "allthough i want a SRI for shorter pipe route", a 5 year old turbo that makes fun multi color smoke, replica wheels, and a greddy type s BOV recirc cause i just used what was avalible at a reasonable cost
> 
> i only have 3,800 bucks into my car with the most expencive part being the LM-2 and the Greddy Pro-Fec EBC.


$100 bucks is a good deal. Wanna trade me for my cxracing?


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

vwgolfracer26 said:


> I did my build with a 600hp precision intercooler because i can. I like quality parts. Plus peace of mind. My brother turboed his camaro and used an ebay intercooler. After 3 months the top of the intercooler is starting to rust  seriously!


There is nothing wrong with how you built your car:beer:

"ebay" sells all kinds of intercoolers. I've had my cxracig for 3 years-no rust nor have I ever heard of any rusting.

Everyone will have a different perspective, goals, etc. for their build. If their car performs as they intended that's all that matters. Numerous cars have performed quite well using cxracing intercoolers. I don't see what the argument is about.


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## Corradokcid (Nov 6, 2006)

i didnt know people still argued over IC design in 2011....:screwy:... this isnt new stuff guys


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

Corradokcid said:


> i didnt know people still argued over IC design in 2011....:screwy:... this isnt new stuff guys


This is very very true
slc just needs another thread to change his signature again
I understand the difference between cores and top/side mount end tanks but i don't see the point of discussing it here since most vortexs threads go nowhere like this one however i do enjoy being an ethug from time to time
opcorn:


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

my old intercooler was great! man was it super light too. i had 17psi at 3,200 rpm's and it creaped to 26 at 5,000. hopefully this new core helps that, and a 3" exhaust.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> This is very very true
> slc just needs another thread to change his signature again
> I understand the difference between cores and top/side mount end tanks but i don't see the point of discussing it here since most vortexs threads go nowhere like this one however i do enjoy being an ethug from time to time
> opcorn:


I'm old and wise enough to realize what you're doing ma man. You aren't the only guy on this website to ride my dk. Enjoy

I'll be changing my sig shortly when I run a new best. Keep watchin:sly:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

"i use the generic AWIC 1000hp core for >600 AWHP, and first day ran 10.05 @ 138. 4cyl 20v on E85 33 psi or so boost. not even 10deg C gain (topped out @ ~39-40 deg C) on the runs with ice water reservoir and Rule 500 baitwell pump with -8AN lines from rear to front and back. "

From my thread. He's using a CXracing awic. Not bad.

If you go to their site their are plenty on 400-600whp cars, but no dynos so like most things take it for what it's worth without real proof.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

A 'good' intercooler will cool w/in the first few inches upon entry. A bad one will actually cool and then pick up heat due to friction. I've swapped over a couple of setups this season w/ a guarantee. As in 'I guarantee you'll see a difference or its free'. I've seen some of these lesser cores, when pushed, at over 50deg's above ambient. Not cool in my book . But regardless, any intercooler does work to a reasonable extent. You can make 600+whp w/ a crappyish core. You cant compare race cars as they run fueling aids that lower temps at the combustion chamber or are spraying something. But try to run them on a street vehicle on a hot day w/ 93oct on high boost settings. This is where they fall flat and bring things closer to sometimes disastrous results...


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> A 'good' intercooler will cool w/in the first few inches upon entry. A bad one will actually cool and then pick up heat due to friction. I've swapped over a couple of setups this season w/ a guarantee. As in 'I guarantee you'll see a difference or its free'. I've seen some of these lesser cores, when pushed, at over 50deg's above ambient. Not cool in my book . But regardless, any intercooler does work to a reasonable extent. You can make 600+whp w/ a crappyish core. You cant compare race cars as they run fueling aids that lower temps at the combustion chamber or are spraying something. But try to run them on a street vehicle on a hot day w/ 93oct on high boost settings. This is where they fall flat and bring things closer to sometimes disastrous results...


Good points. Everything is setup dependent. Chose the intercooler needed for your setup. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

slcturbo said:


> Good points. Everything is setup dependent. Chose the intercooler needed for your setup. :thumbup:


I just use Garrett cores. No guessing games and the quality is the best :thumbup:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I just use Garrett cores. No guessing games and the quality is the best :thumbup:


I'll take your word for it.

However, this goes on and on with every component. Intercoolers, turbos, sri's, management, wheel and tire setup, built motor/trans vs. stock, and on and on. At some point the average joe with a budget is going to have to pick and choose. Not everyone has $10-$20k for a build. 

Therefore a discussion of how "off" brand components perform on certain setups is certainly in order. It also depends on power goals and type of driving. Like you said, most everything will "work". There aren't many absolutes ie. "This one's crap and this one is great". 

The question is (1) whether you can afford the "better" component, and (2) whether or not it's worth the extra $$ for your setup compared to the added performance it's going to give(assuming it will). The answers to those are very subjective. There is no right answer in every case:beer:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Well, money does come into play. But if you have honda budget, you'll not mistake it for a benz. They'll both get you from point a to b. A couple hundred bux difference in this area is not worth it IMO. If it is to you and it works for you, I cannot refute that. I just go by what I've seen, tested, etc. I have tons of logs and even some cores I've pressure tested that I've had to weld/fix in order for it to work w/o leaking because the customer didnt have the budget nor time to wait on a proper core to come in (I needed it off the lift at the time as well). I've taken no name IC's off that were twice the size of a Garrett core that I've replaced it with that performed worse then the physically smaller core (response-wise and overall power delivery along w/ consistent performance). To me, the IC is very important. IAT's absolutely kills power if given the chance. I guess you have to do the back to back if you dont take my word for it. I've just done it on multiple occasions and in every single case, it was an improvement.

Yes, it all comes down to what the customer wants and is willing to put into it. That does come into play and I'll never force anyone to do anything against their will or pocketbook. But over the years, its absolutely crazy to say that quality doesnt matter in this because it absolutely does. Manufacturing this stuff is a careful process by companies that really care :thumbup:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

All good points there. This one has been beaten to death x10.

I'll likely be running a bigger cxracing core next year. I'll look for all those 60 trim turbo, 42# chip tuned cars running pricey IC setups to put down more power and or trap over 128mph. If it's that important and the cheap cores are so bad I should expect to see a difference.

To be clear, I'm not being sarcastic. I can't even use the power I have now on the street so if something isn't increasing the performance of the car at the track it's not worth it for me.


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

you may find they make the same power on less boost.... seen it happenopcorn:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

slcturbo said:


> All good points there. This one has been beaten to death x10.
> 
> I'll likely be running a bigger cxracing core next year. I'll look for all those 60 trim turbo, 42# chip tuned cars running pricey IC setups to put down more power and or trap over 128mph. If it's that important and the cheap cores are so bad I should expect to see a difference.
> 
> To be clear, I'm not being sarcastic. I can't even use the power I have now on the street so if something isn't increasing the performance of the car at the track it's not worth it for me.


Understood. I've not just noticed at peak power. Its all over. The entire powerband changes. And as mentioned above, on lower boost levels/daily driving conditions. A good core under some duress (heat and soaking) will feel crisper/snappier. Flow will usually be balanced better w/ core efficiency instead of swing more towards either direction which leads to either inadequate cooling or restriction. I guess in short, its just plain better.

I think the large Godspeed uses the same core as the CXRacing 25x12x3 core which seems to be the defacto standard offshore core (same endtanks and everything). This is the core that is on a GTI 3071R setup that was seeing over 50degs above ambient this summer pulling 6-8degs of timing across... On the road it felt fast but hit that proverbial 'wall' and if it wasnt for logs, one would never really know.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

websaabn said:


> you may find they make the same power on less boost.... seen it happenopcorn:


Big picture. On my setup what's the difference. So turn up the boost.

If I max an injector at 17psi or 20psi there is no difference. Car will still trap the same.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Understood. I've not just noticed at peak power. Its all over. The entire powerband changes. And as mentioned above, on lower boost levels/daily driving conditions. A good core under some duress (heat and soaking) will feel crisper/snappier. Flow will usually be balanced better w/ core efficiency instead of swing more towards either direction which leads to either inadequate cooling or restriction. I guess in short, its just plain better.
> 
> I think the large Godspeed uses the same core as the CXRacing 25x12x3 core which seems to be the defacto standard offshore core (same endtanks and everything). This is the core that is on a GTI 3071R setup that was seeing over 50degs above ambient this summer pulling 6-8degs of timing across... On the road it felt fast but hit that proverbial 'wall' and if it wasnt for logs, one would never really know.


Good points. I hope to have vag com at some point so I will look at timing and IAT for sure. 

To be clear, it would be ignorant of me to not realize there are potentially better intercoolers than a $90 shipped IC. Of course there are. Just as it would be ignorant to consider them junk or say they don't work when plenty are making 400-600whp and running 9's-11's with them.

Another reason I run cxracing on a Corrado is b/c they have a few that are 2.5" thick. It minimizes cutting behind the bumper. I don't see anything on your site thinner than 3.5". Does Garrett/Precision make anything on the thinner side?


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

slcturbo said:


> I don't see anything on your site thinner than 3.5". Does Garrett/Precision make anything on the thinner side?


I didn't think they do... and I believe garrett cores are 3.8" to be measured exactly?...

Al, how many of those garrett cores did you have to weld to seal properly? 
Its been common for many companies to still admit they weld garrett cores because they do have small holes in them... but that doesn't mean they are crap, it is actualy difficult to make cores.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> I
> Al, how many of those garrett cores did you have to weld to seal properly?
> Its been common for many companies to still admit they weld garrett cores because they do have small holes in them...


opcorn: Interesting


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

I havent encountered anything w/ small holes in them. I use specific sizes and not a single one is listed on the site. I'ved used a 2.5" thick core that is rated at 550hp and 750hp respectively. I usually pressure test them to 30psi after welding the endtanks as the only leak that may be encountered might be a porous weld that might have picked up some contamination (happens sometimes and is usually easily identified and fixed. I think alot of what you hear is heresay and marketing-speak. I've yet to meet a Garrett core that leaked so far (knock on wood)

Here's the 550hp example to show size and config. Excuse the mess as its only a mock:


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

fin count. is different in quality core to **** core. i saw 26~30 degrees cooler after swapping

two pics here one is the guy on ebay (godspeed), second is precision unit


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> . I think alot of what you hear is heresay and marketing-speak. I've yet to meet a Garrett core that leaked so far (knock on wood)


I can't discount your personal experience, but in the evo community garrett cores are by far the most popular used by tuners (because of the fact they have been tested to be one of the best on the market), and when they state on their own forums that they have to weld garrett cores I take it more than 'heresay' by more than one reputable tuner. :thumbup:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

In those pics I count 11-12 fins vs. 14-15 that are visible on each row. A difference, but surely not enough to render one intercooler ineffective or to "crap" status based on that alone.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> I can't discount your personal experience, but in the evo community garrett cores are by far the most popular used by tuners (because of the fact they have been tested to be one of the best on the market), and when they state on their own forums that they have to weld garrett cores I take it more than 'heresay' by more than one reputable tuner. :thumbup:


Anybody using cxracing/frozen boost/just intercoolers cores on evo's?


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

im now in love with my precision unit!

the boost hits sooo much faster, you can feel a clean strong pull instead of building.

there is less lag even with a larger unit and a extra foot of pipe.

my creep is almost gone. now i need a 3.0" exhaust to solve that issue.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

slcturbo said:


> Anybody using cxracing/frozen boost/just intercoolers cores on evo's?


Oh I'm sure there are..... but you gotta undertand the evo community is a lot more religous. Can you make 500+hp off a ebay core? Sure, will you run 10's, sure... but slapping a garrett on (or equiv) in replace has proven to gain ~50+whp or so,so that is where the sheep are going to flock. You have shops with 10+yrs experience w/ a 4G63 and who are dedicated to the highest proven performance they can achieve, and that is what they are gonig to run and sell to their customers because they can run a 9.2 instead of a 9.5 or something like that. 

In the VW community you normally don't see this type of data acquistion in product R&D, but I think its also just because of the wisdom/experience of the vw heritege over the yrs and its just now maturing to another level, especially because of the OEM FI applications. 

I think this thread has summed up alot of info. There are better cores to use, they can make more power, they can make you go faster, they can give better boost responce. 
I think in general this type of thread is similar to EBAY turbos, are they crap? some have exploded, some have made 500hp, some last 10 miles others 30k. Ultimately the choice will be up to you and your budget and hopefully your overall goal. If you want to make 1000hp than buy good quality parts :thumbup:

oh and btw: commenting on the two above cores, its not always which has more fins etc..... its the pure science of which flows more air with less restriction, unless your an expert on heat exchanger design I highly doubt ANY of us can prove the difference from # of fins and geometry to which is better visually :screwy:
We can just tell that they are different.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

GTijoejoe said:


> I can't discount your personal experience, but in the evo community garrett cores are by far the most popular used by tuners (because of the fact they have been tested to be one of the best on the market), and when they state on their own forums that they have to weld garrett cores I take it more than 'heresay' by more than one reputable tuner. :thumbup:


Perhaps. They use different cores then I use. Intercooler manufacturing is still somewhat crude. It involves baking and fusing the layers together. If I'm not mistaken, they use thicker cores which may be prone to uneven heat distribution during manufacturing. This is my theory. I use thinner totally different cores which may explain it. Thinner but taller...


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Perhaps. They use different cores then I use. Intercooler manufacturing is still somewhat crude. It involves baking and fusing the layers together. If I'm not mistaken, they use thicker cores which may be prone to uneven heat distribution during manufacturing. This is my theory. I use thinner totally different cores which may explain it. Thinner but taller...


Yup, I understand and I completely agree.... IC manufacturing is difficult.... My point was only to mention that even known 'good' high performance cores may have 'leak' issues and have to be welded... it doesnt mean they are crap (all the time:thumbup

Since this thread has a lot of info I wanted to clear up some misconceptions :beer:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

GTijoejoe said:


> Yup, I understand and I completely agree.... IC manufacturing is difficult.... My point was only to mention that even known 'good' high performance cores may have 'leak' issues and have to be welded... it doesnt mean they are crap (all the time:thumbup
> 
> Since this thread has a lot of info I wanted to clear up some misconceptions :beer:


Yes, construction isnt the issue here. Its overall design and efficiency that I was getting at and I'm sure you know. Garrett cores are better in terms of material, overall design and backed by a more then reputable name. I can go through the Garrett catalog and actually chose a core based on size and targetted HP ranger rather then picking a core and crossing my fingers :thumbup:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> Oh I'm sure there are..... but you gotta undertand the evo community is a lot more religous. Can you make 500+hp off a ebay core? Sure, will you run 10's, sure... but slapping a garrett on (or equiv) in replace has proven to gain ~50+whp or so,so that is where the sheep are going to flock. You have shops with 10+yrs experience w/ a 4G63 and who are dedicated to the highest proven performance they can achieve, and that is what they are gonig to run and sell to their customers because they can run a 9.2 instead of a 9.5 or something like that.


Thanks for the reply. I think the components become more critical the more you are trying to "squeeze" out of a setup as well as the more adjustability the tune has(standalone, timing) etc. Also the more power you are trying to make. I'll use two extremes, but obviously a $600 intercooler is going to make alot more sense on a standalone, 9 sec, drag evo running ~35+psi than a 30# chip tuned VW running 10psi that's used for some street fun.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

Let me throw this in the mix while were all hot and heavy. Cast endtanks are better than Ali or stainless. Truths to that? Let u guys tell


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

A customer of mine was set up w/ a 3071R in a passat w/ one of those cheapie IC setups that you see littered all over in the sub $500 price range w/ all piping, clamps, hoses etc. The car never felt right. Didnt feel powerful and was even laggy. Wasnt slow, but something was off... He was blaming the turbo as he felt that he had the entire car set up to support it. I checked for leaks, tuning, etc. The core was not great, but of decent size. Decided to change this up...










Got on the hwy.. Proceeded to build boost... Tires lit up in 3rd as boost was building... He turned to me and said, 'Car never did this before'. We proceeded to flog it a bit... Power never dropped, therefore he wasnt experiencing the heatsoaking that he was before. The believers are those that experience it with their own eyes. I can talk til I'm blue...


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> A customer of mine was set up w/ a 3071R in a passat w/ one of those cheapie IC setups that you see littered all over in the sub $500 price range w/ all piping, clamps, hoses etc. The car never felt right. Didnt feel powerful and was even laggy. Wasnt slow, but something was off... He was blaming the turbo as he felt that he had the entire car set up to support it. I checked for leaks, tuning, etc. The core was not great, but of decent size. Decided to change this up...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and you'll have to with some of the people on here. Why buy quality when subpar will do!!
:facepalm:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> A customer of mine was set up w/ a 3071R in a passat w/ one of those cheapie IC setups that you see littered all over in the sub $500 price range w/ all piping, clamps, hoses etc. The car never felt right. Didnt feel powerful and was even laggy. Wasnt slow, but something was off... He was blaming the turbo as he felt that he had the entire car set up to support it. I checked for leaks, tuning, etc. The core was not great, but of decent size. Decided to change this up...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. He should have tried a cxracing intercooler then. I'll spin 1st-3rd if I want. Ran 11.8's w/ a 30# tune and 11.5's on the 42#. 

My IC was $89 shipped. Piping/clamps were $115 shipped. I spent the money I saved on a used apexi avc-r


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

die thread die


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> and you'll have to with some of the people on here. Why buy quality when subpar will do!!
> :facepalm:


Correct. I wanted to run 11.5's in my car and destroy anything I encounter late nights on deserted highways. Check and check w/ an $89 intercooler. 

Maybe it's all those business classes. Cost vs. benefit analysis FTW:laugh:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

vergessen wir es said:


> die thread die


X2, but it is funny to see people get pissed at logic. Same thing happens in the SRI vs. stock mani and the standalone vs. chip tune discussions. Some people want respect for what they spent


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

slcturbo said:


> Wow. He should have tried a cxracing intercooler then. I'll spin 1st-3rd if I want. Ran 11.8's w/ a 30# tune and 11.5's on the 42#.
> 
> My IC was $89 shipped. Piping/clamps were $115 shipped. I spent the money I saved on a used apexi avc-r


Not trying to argue. You have a VR. You make torque down low. You dont have to run as much boost and shaft speeds and charge temps arent as high as ppl that run 22+psi to make power. You're not on pump gas when you run 11's. I bet if push came to shove, I can run 11's w/ a VR on race gas or other fueling aids w/ a very small or even no IC. I am just covering what ppl would be using the car for 90% of the time. This is a heat exchanger. It has specific properties specs and limitations. It will not perform miracles but it can be aided by alot of different things. Times and power on the track doesnt tell the entire story. I am not saying that your IC doesnt work. I am just saying that there are superior units. This $89 thing is a 'bang for the buck' argument and that is not what I'm trying to discuss here. Part for part, I feel that there is definitely a superior product and that is all I'm trying to say. Rationalize it all you want...


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

And just for giggles, I decided to search some other forums to see some independent testing and this is what I can find as far as an actual review w/ data (when we get our dynojet put in my the end of the month, we'll be doing some similar testing):



> Originally Posted by davidbuschur View Post
> Here you go, we finally did it. I hope everyone is happy now. I know I am.
> 
> My car is on the dyno making huge power, 640 whp with the new HTA35R on it. We have our Race FMIC on it which I say is the best FMIC you can buy with your hard earned money. The tempurature today is 62 degrees F in our dyno room.
> ...





> Originally Posted by davidbuschur View Post
> 2nd test didn't come out to good.
> 
> I had also bought a new LARGE FMIC to test awhile back. This is the really big one with the 3" inlet/outlet.
> ...





> Originally Posted by davidbuschur View Post
> Our Time Attack car last season was fitted with our 20g-9-5, of course since it is small it is not the most efficient turbo and makes quite a lot of heat when pushed.
> 
> I have our datalogs from Summit Point Time Attack pulled on my laptop from last year.
> ...


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

and he'll still come on here and justify his purchase of subpar garbage....but i went 11.5....but i only spent $89
I like that last post, good info
:thumbup: to [email protected]
:thumbdown: to the donkey in his budget hairdressers car


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

slcturbo said:


> Thanks for the reply. I think the components become more critical the more you are trying to "squeeze" out of a setup as well as the more adjustability the tune has(standalone, timing) etc. Also the more power you are trying to make. I'll use two extremes, but obviously a $600 intercooler is going to make alot more sense on a standalone, 9 sec, drag evo running ~35+psi than a 30# chip tuned VW running 10psi that's used for some street fun.


I would agree w/ you, but understand there is also an inbetweener... for example, like discussed in this thread, Evo members are starting to be notorious for most power w/ fewest mods or fastest timeslip with fewest mods... aka lightest wallet

People on evo9's have been able to produce ~380awhp on mustang dyno's with only.
-Good IC ~$600-1000
-Full 02 housing to 3" exh
-intake and 'maybe' some IC piping 
-FP
while this is on the stock turbo 
(give and take some other mods depending on certain applications, cams, TB and we've seen 400+awhp)

These are pretty huge numbers for the limitation on mod's (~250awhp [email protected]).... so when you weight your options, you skimp on an IC and save ~$5-600 and you may only get 320-330whp (or something).... your next option to try to achieve that 380 figure again would be $600 on cams if you didn't already have them or bigger turbo which is ~$1500 for stock trim...
and really to touch on what Al is proclaiming is in the tune, they can now run 26-30psi instead of 22ish because of their IAT and timing being pulled.

FI system as a whole is full of compromises, in the end its up to your what your goals are and what will get you there....we should not get confused with systems w/ entirely different engines for example, we're all smarter than that. 
.... and what I mean by that is you maybe able to runs 11's on a VR with ebay IC, but most likely your will never be able to do that on an ABA (IMO, I can be proved wrong)


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

To sum up my points.

-It's always a compromise. Journal turbo, chip tune, old style bosch inj., stock motor/trans, etc. If you use any of these they are subpar. So what? What are 90% of people building these cars for. Street/strip fun. You don't need the best components for that. An 8 or 9 sec drag car has little to do w/ a 300-400whp fwd, traction limited street car. 

-Different goals/setup will require different quality components. I reached my goals with an $89 intercooler. That's a fact. Doesn't mean someone else will.

-Take blogs/posts by those that sell specific brand intercoolers for what they're worth. They have a monetary interest in selling you something. I'm not selling you anything but my experience:beer:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Al, your posts involve cars running 30-40+psi boost, 600+ whp, and a time attack car. I would classify those as exceptions to most cars built on this website that is dominated by 250-400whp chip tuned cars. Is the OP building a 600whp car?

Some cars need $600 IC's and some only need $89 IC's.


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## websaabn (May 23, 2003)

i look at it like this.... the more efficient it is, the less stress on the other components...... less stress = stuff lasts longer = save money in the long run....opcorn:


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

good thing i have a precision unit, a turbonetics turbo, je pistions. next IE rods, and some beefy cams with some wild porting.

skimpin = scrimpin

i eat lobster


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

slcturbo said:


> Al, your posts involve cars running 30-40+psi boost, 600+ whp, and a time attack car. I would classify those as exceptions to most cars built on this website that is dominated by 250-400whp chip tuned cars. Is the OP building a 600whp car?
> 
> Some cars need $600 IC's and some only need $89 IC's.


Like I said, I'm not bashing anyone on anything that they do.

Its safe to say that a good IC will be good for a much broader range up to its HP rating and beyond on many occasions. My post involves a big power car, yes. But in the decades I've been involved w/ forced induction before all of this was a fad, before T3T4's were even conceived, even street cars with their small turbos need efficient intercoolers. Sometimes, more so. A small turbo teetering on the edge of its compressor map is going to generate ALOT of heat to make its 350 hypothetical whp. Lets say it has a shaft speed of 150k. and high up in the PR map. Lets say, you're making 500whp on a larger turbo at 115k in the middle of the PR map. It will need less intercooler in terms of cooling efficiency, not flow to do what it needs to do... So, like I said, its not all about power...

And, yes, I do sell intercooler systems. Custom to more standard setups and components. This is what I do among other things. But my take on this doesnt have anything in the way of ulterior motives. There's not a ton of money to be made on Garrett cores and its quite frankly a lot of labor for me to produce a good system. I would love to just sell cores by the boatload, but I just cant get myself to sell these things. I did an experiment in 2005 where I imported offshore cores. A few thousand dollars worth. I still have them in storage... I cant get myself to pass them on to my customers..


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

16V VW said:


> good thing i have a precision unit, a turbonetics turbo, je pistions. next IE rods, and some beefy cams with some wild porting.
> 
> skimpin = scrimpin
> 
> i eat lobster


Good stuff, but how old are you? Do you own a home? Business? Have kids? Investments?

As you get older you realize there are more important things to spend money on. If you can do the hobby on a budget that $5k you saved turns into alot more in the future. Carte Blanche budget only makes sense if you're loaded or all your other ducks are in a row. Not many people fall into either of those categories.

And pricey builds blow up too. I've broken nothing in 3 years while drag raced regularly. How many 11 sec. VW's can say that? It's not what you spend. It's how well thought out the build, install, and use is as a whole.


----------



## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

hey slcturbo..
How much did you pay for your intercooler? i don't think you have mentioned it anywhere!!!
:facepalm:


----------



## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

im actually 25, no kids or plans for them, i own a house that is a 2 family and i rent the 1/2 out to pay my mortgage and taxes. im not married but i do have a girlfriend for the past 2 years.

i just stick it out untill a good deal comes up. hell im even debating if i want to take the car apart as it runs and drives 100%

it doesn't need a ported head, oversized valves, light weight valvetrain, or cams. but if i can make some more efficient power i would like to. ie: 15 psi @400whp instead of [email protected] 400whp. i just want it to flow nice and take all of the stress off of the turbo reving to Adolf


----------



## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> Good stuff, but how old are you? Do you own a home? Business? Have kids? Investments?
> 
> As you get older you realize there are more important things to spend money on. If you can do the hobby on a budget that $5k you saved turns into alot more in the future. Carte Blanche budget only makes sense if you're loaded or all your other ducks are in a row. Not many people fall into either of those categories.
> 
> And pricey builds blow up too. I've broken nothing in 3 years while drag raced regularly. How many 11 sec. VW's can say that? It's not what you spend. It's how well thought out the build, install, and use is as a whole.


congrats, a post w/o mentioning what you paid for your intercooler
what is regular drag racing? i have been racing for over ten years and have hundreds of slips , you seem to give us the perception of a hardcore, life long drag racer, is this true Vin?
although i will admit that i lost the desire to drag race for many years but it is coming back slowly


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

slcturbo said:


> And pricey builds blow up too. I've broken nothing in 3 years while drag raced regularly. How many 11 sec. VW's can say that? It's not what you spend. It's how well thought out the build, install, and use is as a whole.


That you can't argue eace:

Is this thread finished yet? :wave:


----------



## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

GTijoejoe said:


> That you can't argue eace:
> 
> Is this thread finished yet? :wave:


It should have ended with all the great info Al from pag posted but i am having too much fun.


----------



## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> Good stuff, but how old are you? Do you own a home? Business? Have kids? Investments?
> 
> As you get older you realize there are more important things to spend money on. If you can do the hobby on a budget that $5k you saved turns into alot more in the future. Carte Blanche budget only makes sense if you're loaded or all your other ducks are in a row. Not many people fall into either of those categories.
> 
> And pricey builds blow up too. I've broken nothing in 3 years while drag raced regularly. How many 11 sec. VW's can say that? It's not what you spend. It's how well thought out the build, install, and use is as a whole.


do you have all of the above mentioned items?


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> do you have all of the above mentioned items?


It's a secret:sly:

Hint Hint: I don't spend all of my money on my car


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

16V VW said:


> im actually 25, no kids or plans for them, i own a house that is a 2 family and i rent the 1/2 out to pay my mortgage and taxes. im not married but i do have a girlfriend for the past 2 years.
> 
> i just stick it out untill a good deal comes up. hell im even debating if i want to take the car apart as it runs and drives 100%
> 
> it doesn't need a ported head, oversized valves, light weight valvetrain, or cams. but if i can make some more efficient power i would like to. ie: 15 psi @400whp instead of [email protected] 400whp. i just want it to flow nice and take all of the stress off of the turbo reving to Adolf


:beer: Sounds like you're holding it down.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> congrats, a post w/o mentioning what you paid for your intercooler
> what is regular drag racing? i have been racing for over ten years and have hundreds of slips , you seem to give us the perception of a hardcore, life long drag racer, is this true Vin?
> although i will admit that i lost the desire to drag race for many years but it is coming back slowly


I wont feed into the insults or the juvenile baiting b/c it's a waste of time, but I have no problem answering legitimate questions.

-I'll have to count my slips. Regular means as often as time allows. On average ~every other weekend from April-Nov. so ~100 passes/yr. I would say is a conservative estimate.

-No perception intended. There are faster cars and there are people who race every weekend. However, this will be my 3rd season drag racing this car with the turbo without breaking anything. 

I've been racing this car since 06' and before that it was my 5.0 Mustang in the early 90's. Test and tune's by choice. Classes/events take the fun out of it and don't allow you to mod the car the way you want. It also turns some into ultra competitive dkheads:thumbdown:


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

slcturbo said:


> It's a secret:sly:
> 
> Hint Hint: I don't spend all of my money on my car


What???
Secretly you're a 15 year old kid, regularly dragracing his pimped golf on Need for speed.
And when modding your car you choose an xs racing intercooler because otherwise you wouldn't have enough money for your decals? And you never broke your engine because you always make a perfect shift and have a long gearratio:what:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

boost_addict said:


> fin count. is different in quality core to **** core. i saw 26~30 degrees cooler after swapping
> 
> two pics here one is the guy on ebay (godspeed), second is precision unit


That godspeed one actually isn't that bad. You just have to make sure it is large enough to cool sufficiently.

Look at the APR core.


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## smugfree3 (Feb 20, 2006)

why should the apr core be any sort of benchmark?
and b4 anyone asks, yes i use a precision core, and yes i have used apr products.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

smugfree3 said:


> why should the apr core be any sort of benchmark?
> and b4 anyone asks, yes i use a precision core, and yes i have used apr products.


benchmark? I was just showing it to show you what an aweful extruded tube/fin core looks like. Although I think they ditched that design for a bar/plate core.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

DarkSideGTI said:


> That godspeed one actually isn't that bad. You just have to make sure it is large enough to cool sufficiently.
> 
> Look at the APR core.


ohh my god! im going to freakin throw up!


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## smugfree3 (Feb 20, 2006)

DarkSideGTI said:


> benchmark? I was just showing it to show you what an aweful extruded tube/fin core looks like. Although I think they ditched that design for a bar/plate core.


my bad, when i first joined vortex apr was the standard of the world around here (1.8t forum really), so its just a knee jerk reaction when i see something that could be taken as apr nut swingin.:beer:

edit: and im gonna say it, i think its pretty clear that precision cores and garret cores are the best.


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## Amsterdam087 (Dec 31, 2007)

bell seems to know what they are doing as well.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

yes they do, bell makes good cores as well.....


now can we let this thread die yet


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

What about Treadstone intercoolers? They have looked good and aren't an arm and a leg but aren't cheap either.


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

smugfree3 said:


> and im gonna say it, i think its pretty clear that precision cores and garret cores are the best.


I agree.I have to add Vibrant to that list, my intercooler works pretty very well.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

WeeZFan69 said:


> I agree.I have to add Vibrant to that list, my intercooler works pretty very well.


wow! read the thread!...... VIBRANT IS TRASH! EBAY IS TRASH!!!!!!! YEAH THEY FLOW BUT THEY SUCK AT EFFICIENT COOLING!

sorry for caps, but you can't compair ebay, treadstone, vibrant, godspeed to a garrett core. people just need to learn how to grow up and spend cash on real items


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Vibrant Performance actually makes very nice products.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

vibrant and a yonaka



















they look like regular old cheapies


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## SlowVRT (Jan 3, 2009)

I think the cheap intercoolers work fine on certain applications. But if your trying to make alot of power I don't think they will be anywhere near efficient enough for high boost applications.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

SlowVRT said:


> I think the cheap intercoolers work fine on certain applications. But if your trying to make alot of power I don't think they will be anywhere near efficient enough for high boost applications.


Good point. One thing is for certain. They work well enough to make the power and run the times on the setups they are being used on. It's so funny how the ignorant label any intercooler sold on ebay as "junk" because it costs much less than a name IC and visually has a 10-20% lower fin count which may or may not mean jack squat on the setup in question. 

Funny how the guys whose cars will never see a road course or drag strip are usually the ones that obsess the most about everything. 

I guess if you spent it your only recourse is to come on here and try to convince people that it was worth it. Proof>:bs:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

SlowVRT said:


> I think the cheap intercoolers work fine on certain applications. But if your trying to make alot of power I don't think they will be anywhere near efficient enough for high boost applications.


Apparently efficient enough to run 9's at 145mph. That's probably ~600whp. Now I don't know the details of the setup. Meth, what gas, compression, etc., and "alot of power" is a relative term, but that ain't bad from a "junk" intercooler.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

For those that are interested. This is a car that was run a couple of years ago and is about as close to my setup as you can get. Mikebobelak is his SN. If he or anyone he knows is reading this ,no disrespect to Mike. Just using the car as a comparison:beer:

Similarities
-12V VR 9:1 spacer w/ arp's
-C2 42# setup (latest version)
-24.5" slicks
-O2A trans 3.65 final drive
-~2700lbs w/ driver
-Garrett journal 60 trim cold side
-Race/street gas mix
-~20psi boost
Basically an extremely common setup on this forum. There are literally hundreds.

Differences:

-My smaller DSR 256 cam to his DRC 268's
-My stock mani to his C2 quickflow SRI
-My *ebay cxracing* 27x7x2.5 IC w/ limited airflow to his *Precision 600*? w/ cut bumper (increased airflow)
-My T4 .69 hotside to his T3 .63
-My $25 mbc to his 2 stage Greddy Profec B

So slight differences and all advantage him other than my hotside, but overall VERY similar setups. Both cars were run pretty regular so they run what they run.

My best: [email protected]
His best: [email protected]

To be fair, I know his car has trapped 127mph so substitute that # if you'd like.

The point. On these specific applications the SRI-Precision IC combo did not result in his car making anymore power or being any faster in the 1/4. 

My IC:










His IC:


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

you probably get more torque with the stock manifold.

im running a stocker as well not even a euro 2.9


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

16V VW said:


> you probably get more torque with the stock manifold.
> 
> im running a stocker as well not even a euro 2.9


Absolutely, but likely from 4200 and down. More of a factor on the street than the drag strip where you are ~5k-7200rpm 90% of the time.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

slcturbo said:


> For those that are interested. This is a car that was run a couple of years ago and is about as close to my setup as you can get. Mikebobelak is his SN. If he or anyone he knows is reading this ,no disrespect to Mike. Just using the car as a comparison:beer:
> 
> Similarities
> -12V VR 9:1 spacer w/ arp's
> ...



His .63ar Stg3 wheel vs your stg5 or p-trim T4 wheel. Big difference and also the housing is a big flow difference. If he has a stg5 wheel in his T3, he's dealing w/ backpressure issues (probably already is... so that is a BIG handicap for him). In this case, his IC will not be a benefit to him and, again, not talking about overall power. I would greatly assume by seeing what you/he has, after repeated runs, he'll be much more likely to run consistent power run after run, back to back then your setup... That is more of a true test then one big run...


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> His .63ar Stg3 wheel vs your stg5 or p-trim T4 wheel. Big difference and also the housing is a big flow difference. If he has a stg5 wheel in his T3, he's dealing w/ backpressure issues (probably already is... so that is a BIG handicap for him). In this case, his IC will not be a benefit to him and, again, not talking about overall power. I would greatly assume by seeing what you/he has, after repeated runs, he'll be much more likely to run consistent power run after run, back to back then your setup... That is more of a true test then one big run...


:thumbup: Now how did I know you would focus on the one variable I had over him. It's a P-trim BTW.
He's got a bigger cam, SRI, 2 stage boost controller, and "better" intercooler. You also just supported my point. The intercooler isn't his limiting factor. Add a bigger hotside and it still wouldn't be. It would be his fueling and/or turbo. This is why blanket statements like"junk", "better", "best", for every setup/use are ignorant and not well thought out. 

FYI, I run my car as "back to back" as possible on a test and tune and it still runs the same. The long slow drive back on the return road, then through the pits, then staging lanes, etc. No hard IAT data, but that outlet IC pipe and intercooler are ambient by the time I get back to the pits. Perhaps a road race/track car would show the difference, but in drag racing you have such a long time for that heat to dissipate even on "back to back" runs.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Because that one variable is very glaring. Basically, you are cooling down the heat that the rotating components in the shaft/wheels generate. NOTHING else. A ptrim wheel in its associated housing flows more up top. It will increase the efficiency of the entire charge system and engine VE's. This will in turn allow the shaft to spin less to do more... Charge pressures arent as bad, initially off of yours then it would be off of his. He's more surge prone, which increases charge temps as well. Put your IC on his setup and I could pretty much guarantee things will change. He's got a .63ar T31 housing on a VR dude... c'mon...

And, you're making a blanket statement on the flipside when your IC setup is prob not as taxed as his..


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Because that one variable is very glaring. Basically, you are cooling down the heat that the rotating components in the shaft/wheels generate. NOTHING else. A ptrim wheel in its associated housing flows more up top. It will increase the efficiency of the entire charge system and engine VE's. This will in turn allow the shaft to spin less to do more... Charge pressures arent as bad, initially off of yours then it would be off of his. He's more surge prone, which increases charge temps as well. Put your IC on his setup and I could pretty much guarantee things will change. He's got a .63ar T31 housing on a VR dude... c'mon...
> 
> And, you're making a blanket statement on the flipside when your IC setup is prob not as taxed as his..


 You sell pricey intercoolers bud. There isn't anything I'm going to post about $100 intercoolers that you aren't going to try and poke holes in. 

You are making my point. Every setup has a different limiting factor. ~120mph and ~128mph are about it for 30# and 42# tunes respectively in ~2700lb cars. I got there w/ an $89 intercooler so hardly junk.

Keep bumpin it. The more they read the more $$ they'll save:thumbup:


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

ya Al 
stop trying to sell quailty, there are many little 9 year old chinese iintercooler makers out there looking for work


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

Honestly I think you two will go back and forth for at least another month, but I'd like to throw some more holes in your comparison.

Dont get me wrong, I've already admitted that everyone doesn't need $600+ IC's but you want to compare apples to apples and I don't think we've done that.

For example, did you run at the same tracks? Do run the same tires? do you run the same diameter tire? Did you compare 60' ft times?
I don't have to tell you that these things make differences, I don't want these claims to confuse others who don't understand and I do understand that these are the 'best' times ran respectively (its ok to admit your the better racer  )

In addition how many other IC's have you ran, especially off ebay? Perhaps you got the magic setup, we can't say all of them arn't junk unless they've been tested, we can say maybe your's isn't junk.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

And he forgot to mention his PnP head when comparing to the other car
Or how a low 60' equals a lower mph or.....
I could go on and on but


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

GTijoejoe said:


> Honestly I think you two will go back and forth for at least another month, but I'd like to throw some more holes in your comparison.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I've already admitted that everyone doesn't need $600+ IC's but you want to compare apples to apples and I don't think we've done that.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I could go on and on as well. I'm comparing trap speed. That's directly related to power at a certain weight. He isn't making anymore power than I am. If you want to get specific, he had the better 60' and the dual stage so I caught him on the top end. 

Sure the comparison isn't perfect, but certainly better than pure speculation.

I surely make 400whp and run the times I do w/ a TINY cxracing intercooler that gets limited airflow. One of the few facts in this ridiculous thread.

Now on to the speculation, advertising, and ignorant comments-Vortex mainstays


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> And he forgot to mention his PnP head when comparing to the other car
> Or how a low 60' equals a lower mph or.....
> I could go on and on but


Surely a DIY P&P head done by me w/ a $50 kit from Summit did little and were at most evened out by his bigger cams. He had a bigger cam, a big precision, an SRI, and a dual stage boost controller. Why aren't you talking about that.

His 60' was a 1.75 to my 1.83. My trap is 4mph higher. With a poor 60' I've never seen his car trap over 127mph. Even w/ the better 60' his car is slower than mine. What is your question?

Please go on and on. You picked the right dance partner:laugh:


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> Surely a DIY P&P head done by me w/ a $50 kit from Summit did little and were at most evened out by his bigger cams. He had a bigger cam, a big precision, an SRI, and a dual stage boost controller. Why aren't you talking about that.
> 
> His 60' was a 1.75 to my 1.83. My trap is 4mph higher. With a poor 60' I've never seen his car trap over 127mph. Even w/ the better 60' his car is slower than mine. What is your question?
> 
> Please go on and on. You picked the right dance partner:laugh:


so your 30+ hours that you posted it took you to do all that porting work did nothing for the setup?, or the bigger turbo?
at what time of year did that guy this the posted time vs yours? June vs October? Ya that doesn't make a difference either
Congratulations on your awesome times, you must be the envy of your hair salon
:facepalm:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> so your 30+ hours that you posted it took you to do all that porting work did nothing for the setup?, or the bigger turbo?
> at what time of year did that guy this the posted time vs yours? June vs October? Ya that doesn't make a difference either
> Congratulations on your awesome times, you must be the envy of your hair salon
> :facepalm:


And you keep ridin my DK. Like I said, you aren't the first.

To anyone reading, buy whatever intercooler you want, but at least you know what's possible with a smallish cxracing core w/imited airflow


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> And you keep ridin my DK. Like I said, you aren't the first.
> 
> To anyone reading, buy whatever intercooler you want, but at least you know what's possible with a smallish cxracing core w/imited airflow


riding your massive manhood would mean i agree with everything you are saying. I don't believe that to be the case here
You have yet to comment on several of the points i made.
Let's try again.. June/october... what did you run in june vs october in your blazin' hairdresser mobile?
opcorn:


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

figured i drop in & see what's new & nothing is :laugh:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> riding your massive manhood would mean i agree with everything you are saying. I don't believe that to be the case here
> You have yet to comment on several of the points i made.
> Let's try again.. June/october... what did you run in june vs october in your blazin' hairdresser mobile?
> opcorn:


[email protected] 15th- Pinks All Out maple Grove
[email protected] 22nd- TNT

The lower traps were due to lower boost. Those are 16-17psi runs. She traps 128mph at 20psi:beer:

Mike didn't just run his car for a month. He ran over a period of time on various tires. Never saw a trap over 127mph.

Since we're comparing. I trapped 128mph on slicks. Let's keep his 124mph trap to be fair. The 127 was on DR's I believe.

I appreciate your interest in my car:thumbup: It gives me a chance to post about it more:laugh:


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> [email protected] 15th- Pinks All Out maple Grove
> [email protected] 22nd- TNT
> 
> The lower traps were due to lower boost. Those are 16-17psi runs. She traps 128mph at 20psi:beer:
> ...


i could swear the writing on the back says 20 psi but i must be wrong, you couldn't be full of sh;t now could you?


----------



## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

16V VW said:


> wow! read the thread!...... VIBRANT IS TRASH! EBAY IS TRASH!!!!!!! YEAH THEY FLOW BUT THEY SUCK AT EFFICIENT COOLING!
> 
> sorry for caps, but you can't compair ebay, treadstone, vibrant, godspeed to a garrett core. people just need to learn how to grow up and spend cash on real items


vibrant has some higher density cores coming soon
:thumbup:


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> i could swear the writing on the back says 20 psi but i must be wrong, you couldn't be full of sh;t now could you?


Well I'll be damned. Just looked at the back of that slip and you are correct 20psi. 

Mistaken-absolutely. Full of sht for the sake of an internet forum? Come on man

Argument still stands. Slick vs. slick I was quicker and faster.

:beer: to you for havin enough free time and ridin hard enough to find my timeslip.:laugh:


----------



## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> Well I'll be damned. Just looked at the back of that slip and you are correct 20psi.
> 
> Mistaken-absolutely. Full of sht for the sake of an internet forum? Come on man
> 
> ...


you wouldn't believe how many people are giving me the 411 on your BS or how many PM's i am getting because of this thread, all in agreemen t of your douchebaggery
unless you are at the same track on the same day you can't compare the times
come to my local track and you wouldn't run within 3-4 tenths of your best time, its just that bad
temp,altitude,track conditions etc make this a mute argument and your bigger turbo is more beneficial than all the others guys "extra" mods. Throw his hotside on your car and watch the mph drop significantly.


----------



## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> you wouldn't believe how many people are giving me the 411 on your BS or how many PM's i am getting because of this thread, all in agreemen t of your douchebaggery
> unless you are at the same track on the same day you can't compare the times
> come to my local track and you wouldn't run within 3-4 tenths of your best time, its just that bad
> temp,altitude,track conditions etc make this a mute argument and your bigger turbo is more beneficial than all the others guys "extra" mods. Throw his hotside on your car and watch the mph drop significantly.


You wouldn't believe how little I care. Of course the comparison isn't perfect, but it's better than speculation or a sales pitch which is what 90% of the "those IC's are junk" has been. You don't like the comparison then find a better one. There are hundreds of C2 42# VR's running. Best I've seen is a couple 11.2's in gutted cars w/ good 60's. My car has 11.3's in it. If the IC is so bad for my setup then where are all the ~2700lb C2 42# cars that are so much faster?

My point has been made. You feel you've lost the argument which is why you resort to insults.

A debate in which I give my experience/opinion isn't just cause for insults, sht starting, etc. Just disagree and move on. You only make yourself look bad to anyone that has matured beyond adolescence.

Have a good one and I'll look for your 11.5 timeslip:beer:


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

come on guys.. can't we all agree to disagree


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

slcturbo said:


> You wouldn't believe how little I care.
> 
> Have a good one and I'll look for your 11.5 timeslip:beer:


i don't live my life a 1/4 mile at a time , mmmm k there Vin
Looking at the lenght and amount of posts in this thread i'd say you do care


PS when you do find my next slip ( which you won't find on here because i don't broadcast my life on the tex) it will start with a 10 and it will be done on 100% pump gas with no overseas parts except for what vibrant sponsored me with!!!!


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

.therealvrt said:


> i don't live my life a 1/4 mile at a time , mmmm k there Vin
> Looking at the lenght and amount of posts in this thread i'd say you do care
> 
> 
> PS when you do find my next slip ( which you won't find on here because i don't broadcast my life on the tex) it will start with a 10 and it will be done on 100% pump gas with no overseas parts except for what vibrant sponsored me with!!!!


Neither do I, but it's where I push the car since I'm responsible enough to not drive 130-150mph on public roadways and take a chance at killing myself or someone's family for that matter. I can't do a track day for $15 so I drag race.

FYI, I post for those that never do. There are plenty that don't share the Vortex sheeplike stereotypical opinions on everything, but don't feel like getting ganged up on by a bunch of e-thugs every time they voice it. I don't mind it Facts, truth, dyno, timeslips > B.S. and always will be so that's all that matters.

Good luck on the car. Next up for me is a race car or new American Muscle depending on funds


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

GTijoejoe said:


> come on guys.. can't we all agree to disagree


We should should all agree to ignore slc.......


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

HCK757 said:


> Really the title says it all I'm looking at getting a fmic for my 1.8t but I dont know what makes one better than the other what what kind of specs I should be looking for.
> Thanks


http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html


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## Hedgehodge (Nov 7, 2008)

Ummm should i just stick with my side mount then and upgrade the pancake pipe lol >< pushing 24psi apr chip on stock turbo ko3 not ko3(s)


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

SLC.... 

I think it is clear that everyone has admitted that your $80+ IC works, it cools and that is good, but we all agree too that there are better ones and some people will pay top $$ for them. it seems like you just want to try to make everyone buy the same stuff as you have...... impossible ....... if someone decides to spend their money somewere else, the investment on a reputable and better design part (even if it is just slightly better) will give them piece of mind, people put a lot of money on peace of mind. 

this thread is like a debate between flash software compared to standalone ........ every body is happy with their flashed ecu but the real power and best cars run standalone. 

what I will suggest you need to do now is to look for someone in your area with one of those expensive intercooler cores and swap it with you for a real test, same car, same setup, same day, same track. 

it could be your car with different intercoolers or someone else car and your intercooler and their expensive piece. 

measure temperature drop from the cores and race it down the 1320, make sure the conditions are as close if not the same, do sustained WOT comparisons and measure the time it takes for the charge air to stabilize back down again after a WOT run through most of the gears. something like this 



http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8766784073115039644#

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3130563821618221885#

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=9053389993797319099#


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## Hedgehodge (Nov 7, 2008)

from reading this would this seem like a decent item for the price?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/turb...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories


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## 6765VR6 (Jul 30, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> His .63ar Stg3 wheel vs your stg5 or p-trim T4 wheel. Big difference and also the housing is a big flow difference. If he has a stg5 wheel in his T3, he's dealing w/ backpressure issues (probably already is... so that is a BIG handicap for him). In this case, his IC will not be a benefit to him and, again, not talking about overall power. I would greatly assume by seeing what you/he has, after repeated runs, he'll be much more likely to run consistent power run after run, back to back then your setup... That is more of a true test then one big run...


Exactly what i was going to post after i read his terrible comparison.. That is a HUGE difference on the turbine side, especially on VR's where we have ran as big as 1.28 T4 housing on a 42R. There is no comparison between those two setups.

Anyway, i run a precision core on my car and love it.. Not getting involved in the debate because i feel it's been pretty well beaten.

What's up Arnold, how's everything with you? Been a while, ill catch up with you sometime soon, im sure you heard about my "bad year". Hope all is well. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Hey Justin. Glad you're ok man. I spoke to Chris about it when it was very touch and go and didnt know whether it was appropriate for some random dude to just show up out of nowhere. But I'm glad you're doing well and a 'bad year' could've been worse. I think you deserve alot of good years to come :thumbup:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

huichox4 said:


> SLC....
> 
> I think it is clear that everyone has admitted that your $80+ IC works, it cools and that is good, but we all agree too that there are better ones and some people will pay top $$ for them. it seems like you just want to try to make everyone buy the same stuff as you have...... impossible ....... if someone decides to spend their money somewere else, the investment on a reputable and better design part (even if it is just slightly better) will give them piece of mind, people put a lot of money on peace of mind.
> 
> ...


Man this will never end Bud, I understand everything you are saying. If you have the time to set that comparison up using my intercooler then go ahead. I'll be interested in seeing the results.:beer:

However I don't need the comparison. My slips say 11.5 and the car undoubtedly makes 400whp. I can't put that down on the street and I can't go any faster at the track w/out a roll bar.

Please don't distort my point. I'm not saying they're aren't better products. I'm saying most can reach their goals without using "the best". Chip tunes, t series journal turbos, old bosch injectors, etc. Those aren't the best either, but people go very fast using them.


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## 6765VR6 (Jul 30, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Hey Justin. Glad you're ok man. I spoke to Chris about it when it was very touch and go and didnt know whether it was appropriate for some random dude to just show up out of nowhere. But I'm glad you're doing well and a 'bad year' could've been worse. I think you deserve alot of good years to come :thumbup:


Thanks a lot, i really appreciate the thoughts, and you're right, it could have been a worse year. Im up and almost back to normal now, just have one surgery left to try and repair the hearing in my right ear, and if worst case doesnt improve it, worst things are some hearing loss and some scars. You saved yourself some time to be honest. The first week the hospital was packed with people, they ended up having to make them all go downstairs into the lobby on many occassions. Nobody was able to visit me for the first 4 weeks anyway besides my immediate family, and my GF (now my fiance). Hope to see you around soon bud. :thumbup:


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## Hedgehodge (Nov 7, 2008)

>< lol im going to assume that core is decent?


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