# ecs boxter upgrade & ASB/ESP ?



## REDglxVr6 (Mar 29, 2001)

*ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ?*

How does this upgrade effect ESP and ABS? Does it Effect it at all?
Thanks
Nick



_Modified by REDglxVr6 at 5:49 PM 7-1-2005_


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## alaskagreenjetta (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (REDglxVr6)*

doesn't come on as often


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (alaskagreenjetta)*

I have the 2v2 fronts and 1R rears and my ABS almost never comes on, even under extreme braking on the track.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (collins_tc)*

The MkIV brake system with ABS does not have a built-in proportioning valve, so the ABS computer takes care of all the proportioning under extreme conditions. The system comes pre-biased towards the rear from the factory to account for the extra weight of 4 passengers and a trunk-load of luggage.
Without all that extra weight in the rear, the bias is not set at an optimal level. By switching to grippier brakes in front, the bias shifts forward yielding better braking performance including less ABS activation. Brake performance with a full load may be slightly compromised.
The ESP/ASR system uses the brakes and throttle to attempt to correct yaw during extreme cornering situations. With a change in brake bias, there is a potential for the ESP/ASR system to perform differently. As with any performance modification, you should always train on a closed-course race track to see how it will affect the car. For real performance driving, you generally disable traction control systems anyway...


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (phatvw)*

Are we talking about rear abs or front abs? My fronts come on very easily now with upgraded pads alone.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (traffic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *traffic* »_Are we talking about rear abs or front abs? My fronts come on very easily now with upgraded pads alone.

Are the fronts really locking up before the rears? With oem pads, the rears generally lock up first and then ABS takes care of it after the fact.
ABS should be easier to activate with grippier pads in general (i.e. it should come on at lower pedal pressures) but you should also experience higher deceleration rates before ABS begins because the bias is matched up better. Remember to compare how hard your stops feel to the oem brakes.


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## HilF (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (traffic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *traffic* »_Are we talking about rear abs or front abs? My fronts come on very easily now with upgraded pads alone.

tires?


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (white_r!ce)*

definitely limited by tires for me.


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## REDglxVr6 (Mar 29, 2001)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (REDglxVr6)*

Thanks for all the input


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## [email protected] (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (REDglxVr6)*

*Bias Comparison with the Stock 9.1" Rear Rotor*








*Bias Comparison with ECS Stage 1 Rear 12.1" Rotor Upgrade*


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? ([email protected])*

OOOh I love those charts. Thanks for posting this!!!!!!
Do you have similar charts for brake pads with different friction coefficients?
For example how much would upgrading to Hawk HPS in front and keeping oem pads in the rear affect the bias? Would it be similar to say upgrading to a 13" rotor


_Modified by phatvw at 2:39 PM 7-11-2005_


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## [email protected] (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (phatvw)*

No we don't analyze pad compounds like that. Changing pads on any brake system will have the same effect. These charts are to demonstrate how our brake products affect performance.


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? ([email protected])*

Looks like you need stage 4 fronts with stage 1 rear to equal oem bias? Am I reading this correctly?
So on the track, the only benefit of increasing rear is heat?
But on the street, would upgraded rears equate to better brake modulation for medium-heavy brake application?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (traffic)*

I computed a few brake distributions and total system torque increases for different pad combos:
From ECS' chart:
OEM MkIV brakes (cF=0.35) are: 70.1%F , 29.9%R, oem torque
OEM TT front upgrade is: 71.9%F , 28.1%R, +6.6% torque
My computations:
Ferodo DS2500 front (cf=0.5) and Hawk HPS rear (cF=0.42): 73.5%F , 26.5%R, +36% torque
Hawk HPS front, OEM rear: 73.8%F , 26.2%R, +14% torque
OEM TT upgrade + Ferodo DS2500 front (cf=0.5) and Hawk HPS (cF=0.42) rear: 75.3%F , 24.7%R, +45.4% torque
As far as system torque is concerned, its easy to see that pads give way more bang for the buck than bigger rotors and calipers. Simply upgrading to Hawk HPS in the front gives more torque than ECS stage 1!



_Modified by phatvw at 8:46 PM 7-13-2005_


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_As far as system torque is concerned, its easy to see that pads give way more bang for the buck than bigger rotors and calipers. Simply upgrading to Hawk HPS in the front gives more torque than ECS stage 1!

Interesting, but all things being equal, I'll still take my BBK with Hawk HP+ pads on the track. The charts provded by ECS assume identical pads. So for the purposes of the chart, if you change the OE set up to one pad, you have to do the same for the ECS set up. In my own experience, no one with OE brakes can out-stop me, even those with the same pads and similar tires.
And BTW, I recommend that people DO NOT use OE rear pads for HPDEs...you'll rip them to shreds. I know...I did it...and it was kinda scary how quickly they went from 90% left to about 40% left.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: ecs boxster upgrade & ABS/ESP ? (collins_tc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *collins_tc* »_
Interesting, but all things being equal, I'll still take my BBK with Hawk HP+ pads on the track. The charts provded by ECS assume identical pads. So for the purposes of the chart, if you change the OE set up to one pad, you have to do the same for the ECS set up. In my own experience, no one with OE brakes can out-stop me, even those with the same pads and similar tires.
And BTW, I recommend that people DO NOT use OE rear pads for HPDEs...you'll rip them to shreds. I know...I did it...and it was kinda scary how quickly they went from 90% left to about 40% left.

I agree on the oem rear pads!! Mine ripped to shreds after my very first track day! I pulled them off the rotors and there were holes and all sorts of melted crud on the edges! I still used em for a few weeks after while my replacements were being shipped


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