# I have a Patatron board



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I got my ms1 v2.2 board from a friend a while back, but I had already made my investment with a self tuned Digi 1 setup just previous to that

Fast foward to now, the car is running on digi 1 and while it gets the job done I am not happy with it. I can tune the setup just fine, but not being able to do it while the engine is running (extra $300 investment) and not being able to datalog really sucks. Chip flipping is getting old really fast.

The ms1 I have is loaded with 029q*** and is setup to use a Bosch module. Tonight I decided to open it up just to get a feel for things and after looking at the DIYautotune's board mods for a hall sender ignition input I am really confused. Im not sure wtf pat did. I have external wiring diagrams specific to pat's boards as the hall sender setup is a bit different.



From the Diy's site
# Remove D5, D8, and R10. Also remove the jumper between XG1 and XG2.
# Replace D8 with a 1K resistor.
# Run a length of wire from XG1 to the right hole of D5.
# Run a wire from the bottom hole of R10 to the top of R11.
# Run a 750 ohm to 1K, 1/4 watt resistor from the right (5v) side of R23 to the negative (top) leg of D17.
# Run a wire from the negative leg of D17 to X11.


D8 is jumpered, D5 is still there along with R10
Wire from xg1 to x11
Red wire from Jp whatever to x13
black wire (runs with red one) from jp something to a trace right next to R29
Jumper from neg side of d17 to x14

This setup came off a running car, so I know it works. Are there any reliability issues with the patatron boards? Also, I remember awhile back iirc someone installed a resistor off the hall sender signal wire, is this necessary? I know I will need an inline resistor for my lc1, but it does not state if it goes on the 0-5v signal wire or somewhere else.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

I have a Patatron unit in my car. Seems to work just fine with no resistors added. I am running a digi dist. I didn't try to change the Patatron mods to conform to a more "standard" set of mods. But, now that you have started to "mod" it to a non-patatron status, the mega manual web sites should have some good info.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I havent modded the board, I opened it up and thats what I saw. How long has your patatron board been running?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

2+ years


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Great, glad to know his board mods are not iffy, unlike his business practices.

Anyways I just ordered a ton of stuff: 
Non insulated crimp connectors 
adhesive heatshrink 
12' harness bundle from DIYautotune
Open element AIT sensor and connector from DIYautotune
DB37 metal hood (mine is MIA) 
4-way fuse box for powering things up.

Once its up and running I might order the VE anaylze live, can this be used for WOT tuning or is it a bad idea?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

His early boards were fine, from the looks of it that one is from before things went downhill.

Just make note that you don't use the std ms/extra wiring for it. You'll have 5v for hall on pin 24, hall input on 25 and spark output on 31 with his mods. 

You can use VEAL for WOT just start from 'known rich' and keep things 'hard' or 'very hard' to see how it reacts.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

need_a_VR6 said:


> His early boards were fine, from the looks of it that one is from before things went downhill.
> 
> Just make note that you don't use the std ms/extra wiring for it. You'll have 5v for hall on pin 24, hall input on 25 and spark output on 31 with his mods.
> 
> You can use VEAL for WOT just start from 'known rich' and keep things 'hard' or 'very hard' to see how it reacts.



I think the board is from the around 05 maybe. Friend who gave me the board bought his rabbit with it, and the previous owner/username here was 'infront'


The tune on the car was pretty rich. I dont remember the afr's off hand but it was enough to cause misfires around 5.4k rpms and spit flames when he would lift off the throttle.

The car was equipped with a Innovate Wideband, but looking at the exhaust gas settings the controller step size is set to 0, and the overrun fuel cut was set to zero.

There are a few minor things I would like to change with the setup, mainly I have no plans to ever run IAC of any sort. I know the trick is to advance the timing on a cold start, but I am really not sure where to start.

The previous link I put up states there needs to be an inline resistor for the innovate, but its not really clear exactly where. Im going to go post the msq later on the ms forum


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Those diagrams are the same, other then the WB02, no worries there. 

Don't trust the config, upgrade to the latest version of MS/extra code (HR11 or 029Ysomething) and just do everything from scratch IMHO


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Those diagrams are the same, other then the WB02, no worries there.
> 
> Don't trust the config, upgrade to the latest version of MS/extra code (HR11 or 029Ysomething) and just do everything from scratch IMHO


What about copying all the settings that are in my msq, such as the warm up tables etc? The car ran half way decent before, and just to get it running (not necessarily driving) I planned on keeping it the way it is to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Im still not understanding where the resistor for the wideband needs to go. I dont see how it would go on the 0-5v signal wire to the ecu.

The only revision to the diagram from mk2dubbin I would do is to connect injector power to -Z1 as a normal ce2 efi car is configured with.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You can just save the msq, upgrade the firmware then open the tune while connected to the ecu. You'll get errors, but you can just go back and fix those. If the firmware isn't TOO far apart that works well. 

I don't use a resistor at all for LC1 use, no idea why you would.

That second diagram just shows some VW specific stuff, no real functional difference to the top one though.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

right from the innovate forum

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3501&highlight=resistor


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Dave926 said:


> What about copying all the settings that are in my msq, such as the warm up tables etc? The car ran half way decent before, and just to get it running (not necessarily driving) I planned on keeping it the way it is to eliminate as many variables as possible.


you can save out the fuel and spark maps (file - table export) into .vex files that you can easily reload into the new firmware.

i like to take screen shots of all of the other important windows - cranking, warmup, ASE, accel enrich
and then just re-enter those by hand after you upgrade code :beer:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

That LC1 issue is old and has been fixed by Innovate.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

need_a_VR6 said:


> That LC1 issue is old and has been fixed by Innovate.


VCG I was thinking of just screen shots for all of it. Im rather computer illiterate.

Thanks for clearing that up Paul. Was this revision effective when they changed from the 7wire(?) to the 5 wire (?) LC1's?

I gutted and stripped my old digi harness down to the important stuff yesterday such as the wipers etc. and rid of the digi specific wiring.

I'm being optimistic, but I think I can have it running by late Friday night/early Saturday morning (all nighter done it before.)opcorn:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Dave926 said:


> VCG I was thinking of just screen shots for all of it. Im rather computer illiterate.


the .vex files couldnt be any more simple, and will save you TONS of time - typing in those tables completely by hand is really obnoxious 

but id go through the rest with screen shots, as it also forces you to double check the settings your arent changing and make sure that they make sense :beer:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I still use Bruce's Chevy 305 basemap for fuel for most stuff 

Yeah not sure when exactly, but it was when they got rid of one of the extra ground wires. You probably got it.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> the .vex files couldnt be any more simple, and will save you TONS of time - typing in those tables completely by hand is really obnoxious
> 
> but id go through the rest with screen shots, as it also forces you to double check the settings your arent changing and make sure that they make sense :beer:


Good point VCG. I will look into the process of using the .vex file. I may seem stubborn, but I know whats in the megasquirt works and for first fire up it should be fine. I've had issues in the past where to many variables are thrown into a mix and when a problem pops up it can be a real hassle



need_a_VR6 said:


> I still use Bruce's Chevy 305 basemap for fuel for most stuff
> 
> Yeah not sure when exactly, but it was when they got rid of one of the extra ground wires. You probably got it.


Great

Status update:

* TPS is wired in, per Timbo's Vintage Watercooled site.
* 98% of the wires fed through the firewall, integrated with some bits of the factory harness using the factory grommet.


Silly question, but does it make a difference where I put the Bosch module? I would like to keep it right next to my ms but interference concerns me. I could put it in the engine bay but that grommet I am using to feed wires through is getting kind of tight.

Tomorrow's Agenda

Might need more split loom
New cig lighter, mines ****ting on me.
Need a few female spades for things like the dash CLT sensor, coil etc.

I am going to give it a shot not using a bus bar for a ground point, as the only one i have is on my daily. I recognize it might not work, but I can't lose anything by trying.

Paul you suppose the factory ce2 injector power spot in the corner of the fusebox ok?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

All wired up, TPS calibrated, temp sensors reading within ~4 degrees of each other.

No spark using a Bosch Module, MS is seeing RPM. Wiring exactly as diagrams seen above. Plugs wet


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

You should be able to test the spark output with an led test light to make sure it's coming out of the pin you're expecting it to... Then the next step is making sure you're getting power/ground to the Bosch module


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> You should be able to test the spark output with an led test light to make sure it's coming out of the pin you're expecting it to... Then the next step is making sure you're getting power/ground to the Bosch module


Power and ground at the module, tested again with another spare one that I have...nothing. Continuity between pin #31 on the ms and pin #6 on the module is there.

Sorry not sure how to check spark output via an led. Is this something I can do with my DVM? Its a decent one, Mac Tools EM710 setup for automotive applications

Edit: Continuity between pin 1 on the module and the coil negative.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Before I punch myself in the face, its was a power issue going to the bosch module. I should have also learned after my digi 1 days that check any and all vacuum lines going to the intake manifold.

First start.....riiiiiiiiiiiiiich. Looked at the datalog, figured there was a leak, found the leak and fixed it. 

Second start not as rich. Adjusted the IAT/CLT related ign settings and it literally kept itself running without throttle. Im not running an ISV so this is big for me. Bit of a rolling idle, but being able to adjust that **** while the engine is running is sooooooooooo nice.


Thanks to all for the help.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Good stuff.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Now onto tuning questions.

The cold start is ok, or at least much better than when it was digi 1, almost as good as when I was digi 2.

I have an off idle stumble that's killing me. I have to slip the clutch a bit more than I am used to, and its easy to stall. I could use some guidance here.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Do you know if it's going lean or rich just off idle? Generally that stumble is just too much or not enough tps based accel, OR an untuned VE area you don't hit otherwise.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I started off yesterday playing around with the enrichment in my driveway and got it half way decent. Took it out for a drive while using veal last night and while its better its not right. I was able to take a quick peek at the wideband display in TS and its going waaaaaaaaaaay rich just as it started to buck. Im assuming its from too much fuel and not a misfire.

I went through the ms thread in the 16v forum and copied VCG's settings but have not tried them yet. 

I did bury the hatchet in 4th pretty good, and from looking at the logs the ve table is spot on vs my afr targets at 10psi. I did need to richen up the part throttle boost part of the map (2-4psi). 

Paul can I email my msq and the log to you? Im not looking for you to do any e-tuning but maybe just some advice to point me the correct direction.

I might be assuming wrong here, but I am guessing my hx30 is providing more airflow faster than the 50 trim w/.63 housing it was setup for originally with the same airflow up top at 10 psi.

I am using all gm sensors, does the ase/garbage in the code still apply to this or only users not running standard gm sensors?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I looked into updating the code on my ms1, and Im a bit confused on the process. Obviously Im running ms1 extra, so according to this http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Software_Manual.htm#insfirm I do not need to connect the bootloader?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Yeah email them to [email protected]

It's not a surprise you'll need more fuel in the mids with the HX turbos they're generally very efficient. 

If you're already running an extra version no need for the boot jumper.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Great ill update the code later today, I will probably use the hires code as my dsm injectors are wired in with a resistor box. 

I will send the email later today.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Fixed my acceleration enrichments using the settings supplied by Valvecovergasket in the 16v megasquirt thread, car runs nearly flawless. This is so much better than digi 1. I need to dial in my ASE a little better but otherwise its great.

I keep slacking on setting up the updated code, but this is just great. 

Now I need more boost.:laugh:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

glad some of that info is proving useful for folks :thumbup:


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## syncrogti (Sep 5, 2005)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> glad some of that info is proving useful for folks :thumbup:


Threads like this make me high. I am almost ready to put my t316v into its engine bay and move the MS from my fox to the mk2! woo-hoo!

VCG, how much boost are you running on your 16v?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

the maps and tunes that were in the thread he's refering to were for ~15psi... its got a totally different motor setup now with a bigger turbo and has a rough street tune on it for 10psi.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What turbo were you running? Im curious for comparison sake to see where my turbo sits compared to the one the maps where tuned for.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

a t3/t4 50 trim with a .48 hotside if memory serves... 
had a fairly restrictive intake with 2.25" plumbing coming out of the turbo to the intercooler, and 2.5" piping from IC to throttle body 

totally unrestricted 3" open exhaust with an external dump wastegate. stock cams/head as well


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Another thing I just want to touch on, timing of the dizzy with ms. 

Awhile back I set the timing to 6* and never really messed with it much since then. Ive gone over how to do it a 100 times and it never clicked with me. I could not wrap my head around it. 

I ran across a link in the 16v ms thread where Paul discussed his method, and I just want to confirm its ok 

Set trigger angle to 60 (mines at 62, does it make a difference) 
Lock timing in ms to 6* 
Adjust dizzy with timing light to correspond with the slash mark on the flywheel 

=Profit? 

Can someone please just confirm the process. When I was pulling my plugs the other day I found a little crap on cyl #1, so I figure before I start pulling timing in ms that I should make sure the dizzy is set correctly 

Also, should I re-bracket around the idle part of the map? Its currently 500, 1000, 2000 etc. I am getting a small rolling idle when warm, about 150 rpm. Id like to make it a bit more steady, but I am also concerned about having too big of a RPM gap with the rest of the cells


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

thats exactly what i do... never had any issues 

youre just ensuring that your 6* value in MS lines up with the actual dist. position according to the 6* notch on the flywheel :beer:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Great. I am going to review some logs laterand mod the afr lookup table. Cruise areas are set for 14.6:thumbdown:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> youre just ensuring that your 6* value in MS lines up with the actual dist. position according to the 6* notch on the flywheel :beer:


 Exactly. Don't worry too much about the actual trigger angle, as long as the timing light and the real world and the ms all agree. 

What did the 'stuff' on the plug look like? Detonation tends to look like very tiny balls (of aluminum) and right after that point you start picking things up out of the oil pan or off the pavement. 

When I start tuning a car I start out with pretty conservative timing (1deg pull per psi min) and make sure fuel looks good, fuel curve looks the way it should in the boost range the car will get used. Then I start adding timing back in usually start pull 3-4psi and do .5-.75deg per psi depending on the rest of the motor setup, fuel, IC, etc. Watch IATs you'll get a feel for where the turbo is most efficient and where you may have to worry.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

It was what looked like one little spot of aluminum on cyl#1, all the rest were really clean. To be honest I cant see how its on one cyl but not the rest. I am probably being a nancy about it, but I figure you can never be too safe. So I figure check the timing on the dizzy first and then pull a little timing back. In fact from the pictures I found on google they were perfect. Not rich, not overheating, etc. The plugs have maybe 20-30 hours of use on them. 

Im not sure if you still have my logs and msq paul, but at around peak boost (10psi) I have about 18* of timing in the ms. I have not set the IAT based retard, but even during a really hard pull(3-4-5) my mat never exceded 75*-80*F


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

That sounds like a good place to start, could have just been a bit of foreign material you saw. The 'detonation balls' are very spherical and don't look like much else.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I took it to work yesterday, and besides cold starts needing to be better tuned it runs great. I need to do a better job with my ic pipes but it is running great. 

Next cruise I take I'm going to set veal to soft so the cruise afr's can be better. Even after 25-30 miles of its running and driving my afrs are taking too long to adjust.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

With it set on normal it should adjust pretty quick. There's an indicator if it's filtering, while you're driving, watch for it, and see if you're getting a lot of filtered events.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

It has changed the map significantly from where it originally started, but it still takes a bit longer than I like. Is setting veal to soft a bad idea to get the cruising range of the map dialed in? 

I still want to setup anti lag/launch control but Im having a hard time understanding it.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I don't think I've ever used soft. If you do, set rpm and MAP limits so it'll only adjust the area you're interested in. 

Which part of the launch control are you having trouble with?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just reading the diagram lol. Like where to tap for the 5v for this diagram. 










I understand output from the ms goes to a switch then goes to ground. I want the wire for the switch to come out at pin 27, 29 or 30 as they are just dangling on 

When I was looking at my board last I didnt see anything labeled JP1 pin #x. I am going to order the digi key stuff and figure it out from there. 

Its just a lot of info to wrap my head around. This ms stuff gets addicting fast.:laugh: 

Edit: Digi Key doesnt have IN4001, can this be used as a substitute? 1N4001-E3/54GICT-ND 

Edit again: I need to pull my head out my ass, scrolled up the page and saw where the jp1 stuff is on my board, and which x stuff for the outputs to the db37. Still not sure where to get the 5v from. 

Once I know where to get the 5v from ill make a little ms paint picture and you can let me know if Im right. Id rather not be spoonfed answers, just a little guidance if Im heading in the right direction. 

Forgot to add that I engaged the over run fuel cut. Im happy to announce the car now bucks like all hell. Ill be shutting it off.:banghead:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

5v you can pull from a small via that connects to pin 26 internally, on your board it's probably jumpered to X11 already for hall power.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

need_a_VR6 said:


> 5v you can pull from a small via that connects to pin 26 internally, on your board it's probably jumpered to X11 already for hall power.


 X11 connects to pin 25 in the megamanual, and on the patatron diagram its the hall sender signal, so I dont see how it would be a 5v source (x11). 

What label does pin 24 or 26 connect to internally? I assume by via you mean a thru hole that is connected to said labels for pin 24/26 that is 'open'. 

I just saw the local radio shacks have the parts I need to construct the circuit. I assume solid core wire? 

I can probably unsolder x13 to jp5 at jp5 (as seen in my board pic) as patatron had set that up for a knock sensor and use that to bring what I need out at pin 29. 

Im starting to understand this more.:thumbup:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Dave926 said:


> I just saw the local radio shacks have the parts I need to construct the circuit. I assume solid core wire?


 i like solid core for jumpering, just make sure you use some hot glue to hold it down so it doesnt flex fracture later on from being bounced around in the ECU... 
some folks prefer stranded core (which you wouldnt have to glue down necessarily) but i think the solid looks cleaner :beer: 

anyway the shack has both, get 22 gauge


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just went to the shack got most of what I needed. They had 22ga wire but it was speaker wire...****ty insulation. I'm going to use some left over 20ga I have from my harness installation.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

20 is a little harder to jam into some of the holes... but not as big of a deal of its 20g stranded


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Success!!!!! 


























Solder joints look good from the top. Im using a 20w RS iron, really wish I got one with a bit more wattage. 

The only thing I am wondering is why the solder didnt flow to the other side as seen in the last image. 

I think tomorrow Im going to glue the board to the top half of my case, and figure out where to get the 5v from.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Did some google searching and found where the 5v sources are on my board. Used jp1 for a source, and have it all jumpered to x13. Wound up just assembling the diodes and resistor in the box. 

Either way it works. This is awesome.....I really wish now I built my own board.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

So last week when I had the bucking on decel with the over run turned on the car shut off on me. It wasnt a big deal, because it did it as I was rolling into the driveway and it fired right up 5 minutes later 

Last night I went to go out for a tuning cruise, and the ****er did it again. I rolled it into a parking lot, waited a few minutes.....nothing. Had a friend come by to give me a jump, got it to crank really good, fired up once and died right after. 

Called the tow truck, and while waiting I did figure a few things. The left LED is flashing while cranking, so I assuming ms is seeing rpms, and there is power going to the coil. Either way the ****er didnt start, and I could smell raw gas out the tailpipe so Im pretty sure the injectors are firing. 

I was searching through the megamanual last night, and I found something rather peculiar. It calls for part # 0 227 100 137 / 0 227 100 139. Mine 191 905 351, might be 101 905 351, but either way it came from a digi 2 car. In the setting page for a module, it calls for fixed duty, 50% duty cycle. 

I just looked at my MSQ, its 75%:banghead:. Did I potentially fry something here? I dont have a stim either.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I ran those modules at 75% duty before there was a manual recommendation, I don't think that was it. Yours might just have finally bought the bullet. You notice it getting hot at all?

Also, don't use solid core on internal ms wiring, it can break way too easy with vibrations.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

The ms already had some solid core jumpers in it from Pat, but they were hot glued down pretty well. I used multi core anyways for setting up the launch control, and everything is pretty well secured too.

I did notice that it was getting a bit warm about a week ago but thought nothing of it. While waiting for the tow truck I had a spare ICM in my car, popped it in and made no difference.

Its the same problem that my friend who gave me the ms had a few years ago. I dismissed it due to his wire **** job but now I am not sure.

Is there anything on the board that I can check?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Also, don't use solid core on internal ms wiring, it can break way too easy with vibrations.


never had any issues with it being held to the board properly after its all jumpered


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The best part about stranded is that you don't have to have hot glue all over.  I don't think I've ever broken one with it in a car, but I have broken a few doing mods around them. Usually right where the wire is originally stripped, or the end is bent.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

something about glued down wires placed in an organized fashion with neatly bent corners just works for me haha

spent the past few weeks working on a subaru 6/7 MS that i didnt build (might have seen my cries for help on the msextra forums :laugh: ) with all kinds of mods and mostly stranded wire is driving my OCD nuts :laugh:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

ok back to the no start thing:banghead:. What on the board is susceptible to damage in regards to ignition outputs?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Lol I'll take untidy stranded over any solid any day!

Does your LED still work?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

LED was flashing while waiting for the tow, and while working on it today it was. Also confirmed rpms in tunerstudio as well.

Its back to running for some reason. I had power and ground at the ICM as required, turned the dwell down to 50% and called msd about diagnostic specs on the Blaster 2 coil I am running. The coil passed with flying colors. The only problem was my mounting of the coil, it was sideways.

Turned it upright, tried to start and was good to go. Not sure if that was the problem, so in a bit Im going to have it run while logging for awhile and see what happens.

The other issue Ive been having, though not MS related is a belt tension problem. After about 20 min of running I start to slowly lose voltage. Im wondering if its sinking enough where the ICM will not spark.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Had it running for a good while, maybe 25+ minutes or so while logging. I started tuning it more around the idle, as before it was idling around 42-43 kpa

Got it around 36-37 while playing with the timing and Ve table. However the megamanual is correct....right around 2.0ms it starts idling like **** so I think I need to play with the req fuel or will updating to the hi res code fix this?

My next adventure is fan control. The way mk2 are wired up if you have a/c and the compressor is shut off when you turn on the a/c from inside the car the fans turn on.

Ive got to look over some wiring diagrams and a little multimeter work to figure if the ms diagram is suitable for me. This way ms can control the fan, and if for whatever reason the system fails I still have the sensor in the rad as a backup.:thumbup:

This system is going to keep me entertained for some time until I decide to get silly and rid of the dizzy.:laugh:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Lol I'll take untidy stranded over any solid any day!


fair enough :laugh:

these guys are alright with their stranded board
www.demonrally.com
and i think theyre a fairly extreme use case as far as vibration goes


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

So i noticed something kinda funny in tunerstudio today. I was testing voltage output on my battery today, and had about 14v, but on TS its consistently 1v less or so.

Is this due to bad grounds or something?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Have the boot jumper in?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Have the boot jumper in?


I will double check later, but I'm 99% sure its not connected or jumped.


I had it out yesterday, and now my afr curve is a bit on the lean side since I adjusted the dizzy and cyl is misfiring due to ign wires going to ****.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Boot is not jumpered


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The only time I saw a 'voltage' problem was when I tried to use the relay coil to do drive the tach mod, with the duty really high. It'd take out the processor and kill the voltage sense circuit.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Car seems to run fine paul, I just found it funny with a 1v difference between the battery post and TS.

Should I just leave well enough alone?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Thanks to tuner studio, ive been able to get my part throttle and wide open running pretty good. Unfortunately boost control with a Saab internal actuator is a joke, and Ive seen ~15psi in my logs, rising.:banghead:

My idle is the next thing that has me scratching my head. Im not using an idle valve at all, and I am pretty stubborn about not using one unless necessary. The idle is pretty solid, right around ~800 to 850rpm. AFR are pretty decent too, my engine likes to idle around 13.5 or so. At 14.5 it starts getting a bit choppy.

Problem I am having is when letting off the throttle as the engine returns to idle its going well below my normal idle speed, say around 550 rpm. Its annoying, and unless the engine is warm it really hates it, sometimes stalling. When my car was all stock digi 2 with no idle valve it never did this, so my mentality is that it can be done.

Ive tried jacking up the timing in the kpa/rpm bins below idle, playing with the ve bins, Idle advance timing, rebracketing the rpm bins and Im not getting the results Im looking for. 

Anyone with advise it would be greatly appreciated.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I didn't catch it was a 1v "difference" that's fine. I thought you were showing '1v' You might want to check injector 12v to see where it sits relative to what the MS thinks it is. That drives the voltage corrections...

Do you have a log of what it does? You might need to turn the idle advance feature off to tune it first.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Idle advance feature is off. I can make a log later no problemo or post a jpg if you want.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Im convinced something isnt right. I double checked my dizzy position today, set the fixed angle to 6 and it was correct.

The car sounds like it is 'nailing' at idle, but clears up with a few rpms. For ****s and giggles I set the timing table to 0 in the idle region, the car stayed idling and TS was still reading 16* of advance.

Trigger angle is at 62, if it makes a difference and and spark is set to trigger return. Im pretty sure this is not a mechanical noise from the accesory drive, and the car did not do this on digifart and the plugs are clean too.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Paul I sent you the msq and the msl for you to look at.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Nailing noise is something in the accessory drive, took the belt off today and figured that one out. Still have the dipping idle.

On a good note, I converted one of my friend's to ms (same one who gave me his) and his pre assembled unit arrived today.


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