# Only Several More Weeks to Go (LA Debut + Connected Car LTE Debut)



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

http://m.cnet.com/news/audi-president-hints-at-data-plan-choice-in-a3-model/57606117

Looks like it'll be LA instead of NYIAS. Here's hoping that it'll also include the S3 and packaging plus pricing information for both.

I think we had expected LA, but it's good to have some confirmation.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Nice find. I just doubt they list any kind of pricing, I would expect much closer to in sale date. Which seems to be spring. But maybe they see the success of the CLA and try to come early. Heck I would love to see at least more info about the Quattro A3 engine.


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

BrutusA3 said:


> Nice find. I just doubt they list any kind of pricing, ...


I'm hoping to see additional press releases that provide more details than the first one put out by Audi of America. It would be great if they mentioned the available A3 models along with standard and optional equipment for each. Someone posted a rumor earlier about dealers getting a demo in December to facilitate early customer orders. If that's true then it wouldn't be surprising if at least some pricing data is released at the show.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Nice find, Dan! LA makes the most sense since Detroit is usually reserved for major new product announcements and this will technically be the market introduction for North America following the world wide debut back in April. Plus, it just about fits the timeline of initial deliveries starting in February/March.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

tclky said:


> I'm hoping to see additional press releases that provide more details than the first one put out by Audi of America. It would be great if they mentioned the available A3 models along with standard and optional equipment for each. Someone posted a rumor earlier about dealers getting a demo in December to facilitate early customer orders. If that's true then it wouldn't be surprising if at least some pricing data is released at the show.


I wouldn't be surprised if the LA show is where they release packaging and pricing with an official order guide very shortly thereafter. 

Cars should be on lots within about 12 weeks after the show which puts us into late February-early March 2014. Pricing three months before deliveries seems to be a pretty standard cadence.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

You're right, I meant Detroit, not NYIAS. But thankfully it seems that neither will matter now. 

I'm getting excited. Even if we hear nothing about the S3, at least we'll be getting something concrete.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Going back to various discussions about pricing I went back over the CLA's online builder. While the base CLA clocks in at $30,825 with destination, once you add in the two 'standard' packages that just about every CLA will include (per the dealership): Premium Package (dual zone climate, heated seats, upgraded sound, iPhone/iPod media interface, Autodimming mirrors, Homelink) and sunroof package, you're at $34,605.

So the question really becomes: just how gullible are most buyers to think they can *realistically* purchase a CLA for $29,900? My guess is: not many, and Mercedes knows that the ATP (average transaction price) will wind up between $32,000 - $35,000.

So turning back to Audi for a moment they really face two choices: undercut Mercedes substantially in the name of volume or seek price parity and let the offering sell itself. Audi has traditionally been good about avoiding one-to-one comparisons by packaging their offerings just slightly enough from BMW and MB. Considering the swath of standard features on the new A3 it is not inconceivable to see a $32,000 base price including the same items standard that are optional on the Benz. 

Granted, this probably means we're going to see the 2.0 TFSI Quattro model start at close to $35,000 and top out at around $40-$41k. 

The flip side is that Audi pushes for greater volume and introduces the 1.8 models for sub $29 to undercut Mercedes. Based on recent interviews with AoA I see this as increasingly unlikely and instead will set the floor much higher in an attempt to hold brand equity.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Population, Travis Land: at least two.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

There's two ways this can go:

1. Audi stays out of a price war with CLA and let's the A3's superior(?) features sell themselves at a slight premium over the CLA.

2. Audi chases the "badge-whores" just like MB is doing with the CLA and undercuts the CLA slightly even while having an arguably superior product.

My descriptions are rather biased in their word choices and perhaps you can tell that I'm betting on #1. (which equates to "a base Quattro @ $35k" as TG notes above)

EDIT: I suppose this means Travis Land population is at least 3.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

:laugh: :thumbup:


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

I now also remember someone here recently saying the A3 could be aimed at the BMW 3 series more than at the CLA. So perhaps this is who Audi might be looking to undercut (if anyone). Would be easy since BMWs are rather pricey once you start adding in the (mandatory) options.

1. Be competitive with packaging and pricing compared to BMW 3-series
2. Ignore CLA
3. Profit?

EDIT: can't spell 'pricy'


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Population, Travis Land: at least two.


Ha! I keep telling my wife that I'm not the only citizen of Travisland!


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Waterfan said:


> There's two ways this can go:
> 
> 1. Audi stays out of a price war with CLA and let's the A3's superior(?) features sell themselves at a slight premium over the CLA.
> 
> ...



While no.1 is possible, it is very unlikely that the A3 sedan starting price is 35k (higher than A4? I understand that the base A4 isn't quattro, but this is not going to fly, the average consumer is not going to care). Bseides, they have already stated several times that it is going to be in the low 30s and lower than the A4.

We know that the 2.0TFSI is quattro only. Therefore, if they do not launch the 1.8TFSI FWD in the US, their base car will be the 2.0TFSI quattro and that means its base price will be in the low 30s (this is possible).

In contrast, if they launch the 1.8TFSI FWD, it wouldn't be competive unless it is priced lower than the CLA.

*Conclusion:*

A) If they go with no.1, they will have to price the 2.0TFSI quattro at low 30k.
B) In contrast, if they offer the 1.8TFSI FWD at 29k, they will be able to price the 2.0TFSI quattro higher at roughly 35k.

I bet they will go with B since they can capture more market and also get more profit margin from the 2.0TFSI quattro.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VWNCC -

While I agree with this analysis, I think that Audi is focusing the A3 on technology and refinement over displacement. In other words, I think they're betting that A3 consumers could care less about the 1.8 TFSI base and instead will be drawn to the car due to its other qualities. 

Of course, there's always the outside chance that Audi's been running a big disinformation campaign all of these months and we'll get a 2.0TFSI Quattro for $30k. 

I joke, of course, but wouldn't that be a coup?



VWNCC said:


> While no.1 is possible, it is very unlikely that the A3 sedan starting price is 35k (higher than A4? I understand that the base A4 isn't quattro, but this is not going to fly, the average consumer is not going to care). Bseides, they have already stated several times that it is going to be in the low 30s and lower than the A4.
> 
> We know that the 2.0TFSI is quattro only. Therefore, if they do not launch the 1.8TFSI FWD in the US, their base car will be the 2.0TFSI quattro and that means its base price will be in the low 30s (this is possible).
> 
> ...


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

How can Audi price an A3 Quattro at 35K base, that just does not make sense at all. The A4 quattro is 34,700, and the FWD is 33,800 starting. This all even though the A3 will likely be better optioned to start, it is not like the styling is completely different. I also believe that they have to undercut the CLA, Audi does not have the cachet of the Merc with a FWD model, and they also see the success of this whole pricing they are doing to get people in the door. I think they want to be super aggressive unlike what happened with the previous generation A3, and kick ass to start. I guess if they do not have a cheap FWD model like the A4, then how the hell do they sell a Quattro 2.0T for $35K. Read A3 starts at more then an A4 (even if one has quattro), just sounds weird, and when articles are written it will also come across that way. 

I guess we will all know in a few months, I just hope they don't turn into option us to death type of thing the CLA does. I can now see them releasing pricing next month maybe to allow clients who were excited by the CLA to see an Audi A3 pricing and maybe decide to hold off for the A3 instead. 

B.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

BrutusA3 said:


> How can Audi price an A3 Quattro at 35K base, that just does not make sense at all. The A4 quattro is 34,700, and the FWD is 33,800 starting. This all even though the A3 will likely be better optioned to start, it is not like the styling is completely different. I also believe that they have to undercut the CLA, Audi does not have the cachet of the Merc with a FWD model, and they also see the success of this whole pricing they are doing to get people in the door. I think they want to be super aggressive unlike what happened with the previous generation A3, and kick ass to start. I guess if they do not have a cheap FWD model like the A4, then how the hell do they sell a Quattro 2.0T for $35K. Read A3 starts at more then an A4 (even if one has quattro), just sounds weird, and when articles are written it will also come across that way.
> 
> I guess we will all know in a few months, I just hope they don't turn into option us to death type of thing the CLA does. I can now see them releasing pricing next month maybe to allow clients who were excited by the CLA to see an Audi A3 pricing and maybe decide to hold off for the A3 instead.
> 
> B.


A3, like CLA, is a lifestyle car. A4 and C-Class are more mainstream. While there will surely be cannibalization the two will attract different buyers. Think A6 versus A7 buyers - you're essentially buying a style but getting the exact same guts and essentially the same dimensions. 

So, we can all talk about base prices but I think everyone knows that's just a come-on. Sure an A4 starts at $33,800, but slap on the Premium Plus package and you're at $38,000; Nearly $40 with an automatic. 

If an A3 Quattro with the equivalent of Premium Plus levels of equipment clocks in at $35 with s-Tronic, you're undercutting the A4 by $5,000 - not a small amount of cash. 

My understanding from talking with dealership friends is that the sweet spot for the 8P A3 in North America was between $34,000 (FWD, Premium+, Auto, Convenience, OpenSky) and $35,000 with the TDI. 

If we're talking about equipment content comparisons, Audi could really get a leg up on Merc by including Navigation at this price point or by getting Quattro in at this price.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Travis Grundke said:


> A3, like CLA, is a lifestyle car. A4 and C-Class are more mainstream. While there will surely be cannibalization the two will attract different buyers. Think A6 versus A7 buyers - you're essentially buying a style but getting the exact same guts and essentially the same dimensions.
> 
> So, we can all talk about base prices but I think everyone knows that's just a come-on. Sure an A4 starts at $33,800, but slap on the Premium Plus package and you're at $38,000; Nearly $40 with an automatic.
> 
> ...


You and I know that is just a come-on but does the majority of the buying public? In my heart I agree with you, but perception is reality. Sentence starts out something like this on lets say Edmunds: Audi releases the starting price for a well-equipped A3 in the U.S at $34,900 a few hundred *more* then their similarly styled base Audi A4 quattro. The A3 will only be available in auto and will include standard features like Moonroof, leather, and MMI, blah blah blah.

Then you see further in the paragraph something about how many options there are then the Audi A4, how it is supposed to target a different younger clientele, blah blah blah.

I think what will jump out at people is the very first sentence, then the comparisons will ensue without doing the additions you are doing. I see it all the time in any write up. I hate to bring politics up but that is a clear case where it happens, no one listens the the entire speech all they hear are the blasphemous keywords, then the media jumps on it and bombs away.
Smaller car
Less powerful engine
etc...

I still think we see a TDI fwd, a 1.8T FWD only, and a 2.0T quattro only, even if it is just to have their base price (with 1.8T) be far away from the A4 and aggressively attacking the CLA. So yes maybe the Quattro well-equipped is 34,900, but that also means there has to be a 1.8T FWD at a lot less starting price, and if this is the case and quattro is basically a +$900 difference which then puts the quattro at least another $1000 less (since I do not see a 1.8T at 33,900 making sense), since the 1.8T I think needs to be priced fairly close to the CLA and other competitors, assuming again they leave all options the same across the range. Now they could do a lot less options on a 1.8T and then be able to further separate. I do not know anything about manufacturing but I would bet building 1 set of product with the same options only drivetrain different is cheaper then building multiple configurations, thus a better cost average across the models.

The only reason I am spending this much time discussing something so banal is that I need something to hang onto while they finally release this goddamn car! Taking forever! If it was here this fall I would likely be driving a new A3 assuming I liked the test drive, they are killing me.

B.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BrutusA3 said:


> I do not know anything about manufacturing but I would bet building 1 set of product with the same options only drivetrain different is cheaper then building multiple configurations, thus a better cost average across the models.
> 
> The only reason I am spending this much time discussing something so banal is that I need something to hang onto while they finally release this goddamn car! Taking forever! If it was here this fall I would likely be driving a new A3 assuming I liked the test drive, they are killing me.
> 
> B.


Audi absolutely has the advantage, given the economic advantages of the MQB architecture. I have absolutely zero doubt that a $29,990 (without destination) A3 will absolutely have more standard features than a base CLA. It'll probably also have identical or better margins, though neither manufacturer will be counting on respectable margins from the base cars.

And don't worry, every one of us is right there with you.


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

I am just pumped that we will be able to choose carriers with the Audi connect! I have three phones on my current plan and with a 2GB pool and only about 200MB used by all three phones each month, I could add the car on as data without it costing me much.
In addition I could use Verizon rather than the other networks that are non-existent outside of major cities. 
I am happy that it is coming to LA 
I am happier to find out that I will not have to be stuck with T-Mobile.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Cyncris said:


> I am just pumped that we will be able to choose carriers with the Audi connect! I have three phones on my current plan and with a 2GB pool and only about 200MB used by all three phones each month, I could add the car on as data without it costing me much.
> In addition I could use Verizon rather than the other networks that are non-existent outside of major cities.
> I am happy that it is coming to LA
> I am happier to find out that I will not have to be stuck with T-Mobile.


I'm torn on the whole Connect thing. Though I have three lines with TMo and have been very, very happy with them, they're not the best solution for something such as Connect. For that, you need AT&Fee or Verizon. Period.

Seeing as I refuse, on principle alone, to give Verizon one more red cent, I'll end up having to use AT&Fee if I plan to use Connect. I imagine an AIO or Straight Talk SIM would work just fine for it, so I could go month-to-month and use it only when on the road. Day-to-day, I have zero need for Connect. I drive nine miles to the office, nine miles home. Rinse, repeat.

But I agree- I'm very, very glad to hear it won't be carrier-exclusive.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I need help. :screwy:

I have a line on a ticket to the LA Auto Show, and now I'm on Priceline trying to justify a ticket. I have a place to stay out there, so it would be the cost of flights both ways plus some In-n-Out.

Dafuq is wrong with me? :banghead:


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

There are 5 Audi debuts listed for North America scheduled

http://laautoshow.com/debut-vehicles/#tab-news564


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I need help. :screwy:
> 
> I have a line on a ticket to the LA Auto Show, and now I'm on Priceline trying to justify a ticket. I have a place to stay out there, so it would be the cost of flights both ways plus some In-n-Out.
> 
> Dafuq is wrong with me? :banghead:


Can't you get hooked up with some media hook-ups?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Rudy_H said:


> There are 5 Audi debuts listed for North America scheduled
> 
> http://laautoshow.com/debut-vehicles/#tab-news564


That's strange. I was just looking around on the site and couldn't find that. The one I found mentioned the debut of the Porsche Macan, among other things- but no Audi. Odd.



Rudy_H said:


> Can't you get hooked up with some media hook-ups?


Dunno; I don't really have any affiliation with Fourtitude other than diligently working to keep things in line in the forums. 

... even if George could sling something my way, I'd still have to find a way to get out to LA.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> That's strange. I was just looking around on the site and couldn't find that. The one I found mentioned the debut of the Porsche Macan, among other things- but no Audi. Odd.


Tried fixing the link but didn't work, likely you are in 'World Debuts' not 'N. American Debuts'. I did the same thing.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

It was odd, because it had both World and North American Debuts in the headline.

Don't mind me; I didn't realize those were links to be clicked at the top. :screwy:

http://laautoshow.com/debut-vehicles/


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## cyberpmg (Nov 27, 2001)

Have Audi show off the A3/S3 sedan and cabriolet with pricing at LA (that should fill 4 of the 7 spots of new releases at the show). Then have Audi do a world premier of the RS3 sedan and cabriolet at Detroit.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I need help. :screwy:
> 
> I have a line on a ticket to the LA Auto Show, and now I'm on Priceline trying to justify a ticket. I have a place to stay out there, so it would be the cost of flights both ways plus some In-n-Out.
> 
> Dafuq is wrong with me? :banghead:


Sounds completely normal, I have no idea why this is an issue


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Waterfan said:


> Sounds completely normal, I have no idea why this is an issue


My wife thought very much otherwise, but she's given approval. 

I found a couple photos on the US A3 page that I'm not sure I've seen there before. They answer a question I've had after seeing video footage of an A3 without the turn signal integrated into the DRL "hook" in the headlamp.

This is the full-LED headlamp, with the obvious LED turn signal:










... and this is the "xenon plus" unit with what appears to be a filament-bulb turn signal:










That's enough for me to opt for the full-LED headlamp, despite the xenon plus unit looking much more at home on the car.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

George posted this a few minutes ago: http://fourtitude.com/news/Audi_New...t-hints-data-choices-new-4g-enabled-a3-sedan/

It doesn't tell us anything new, really, but there it is, anyhow.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

i'd probably stick with the standard xenon setup; use the cash saved for safety nannies and B and O audio


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Seeing a the LED headlamps will probably be packaged with the full interior LED offering, it'll be pretty high on my list.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Travis Grundke said:


> A3, like CLA, is a lifestyle car. A4 and C-Class are more mainstream. While there will surely be cannibalization the two will attract different buyers. Think A6 versus A7 buyers - you're essentially buying a style but getting the exact same guts and essentially the same dimensions.
> 
> So, we can all talk about base prices but I think everyone knows that's just a come-on. Sure an A4 starts at $33,800, but slap on the Premium Plus package and you're at $38,000; Nearly $40 with an automatic.
> 
> ...


I don't understand what a 'lifestyle' car is. I think you just made that up ;P

Assuming a 'lifestyle' car is one that makes people fill like they're rich, then they'll probably go for a base level A4 over the interger inferior A3. Average transaction price for an A4 is around $36k. Given how easy it is to crack an A4 up to $50k (mine MSRP'd at $42k) that's a schit-ton of bargain basement front-traks running around out there. 

Once again, Audi's biggest competitor is sitting right on the same showroom floor. the A3 is a sweet ride, but put at A3 next to an A4 from the rear 3/4 view with the same paint color and wheels, and I'd challenge most people to spot the difference between them, and most people don't notice wheels. I'd even challenge a few owners. If VW can push 2.0T motors out the door for $23k, Audi can do it for $29,995k, and they should. WORST thing Audi can do is price this thing at $33k and then start putting cash on the hood to move them. That's embarassing. you can always raise the price later.

IF Audi is going to move A3's, they have to get feet walking in the doors. At <$30k, feet will go to the M-B dealer first, and they might not come back. Keep in mind the MB has the same issue as the A3 in that it looks like another M-B product. Except that product is the $90k CLS, not the $33k A4. big difference. I love Audis as much as anyone, but Audi doesn't have the same brand cache as M-B.


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

^^^^^^
This is going to be interesting as my Audi dealer and MB dealer are the same. The A3 and the CLA may be parked side by side on the show room floor.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Well, there are two ways to look at car model lineups: the traditional American model where things are classed by size and power; and the newer way of looking at things where models overlap and offer different feature sets and appeal to different people for different reasons.

Messy, isn't it? The traditional "size + power" model was pretty simple and straightforward. But the automotive world has changed and people expect a lot of the same features in an A3 that they demand in an A6. 

But more to the point of what a "lifestyle" vehicle is, think in terms of the A5 and A7 Sportback. These are niche models to appeal to ones' sense of aesthetic. It allows makers like Audi to keep their bread and butter products 'safe' (A4, A6, A8), and conservative so as not to upset the faithful repeat buyers, but to then add in filler models that add more flash and dash (A5 and A7 Sportback). 

The A5 Sportback was to counter the oft-heard argument that the A4 was a boring looking car. 

Likewise, the A3 will serve two purposes: get people into the showroom and to give them options: think the A4 is too dowdy, then we have this perky and fun A3. Think the A3 is too small? Well, we have this nice A4 that's a full class larger.

It's all about giving people choices to keep them from looking at the _other guy's_ car lineup. 



FractureCritical said:


> I don't understand what a 'lifestyle' car is. I think you just made that up ;P
> 
> Assuming a 'lifestyle' car is one that makes people fill like they're rich, then they'll probably go for a base level A4 over the interger inferior A3. Average transaction price for an A4 is around $36k. Given how easy it is to crack an A4 up to $50k (mine MSRP'd at $42k) that's a schit-ton of bargain basement front-traks running around out there.
> 
> ...


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

caliatenza said:


> i'd probably stick with the standard xenon setup; use the cash saved for safety nannies and B and O audio


HIDs are very expensive to replace and are prone to have ballast issues. LEDs will probably last forever. I had my whole HID system replaced on my A4 when my car was 4 years old. If you don't plan on keeping the car for very long ignore these comments. ;P yah Travis, you made up that LIFE STYLE car comment!! Busted!! ;p


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I see what Travis is trying to say, but this thing is going to grenade in their face if they try to hang their hat on "lifestyle car."

An X6 is a lifestyle car. A 5GT is a lifestyle car. An A3? Not so much, IMO.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> I see what Travis is trying to say, but this thing is going to grenade in their face if they try to hang their hat on "lifestyle car."
> 
> An X6 is a lifestyle car. A 5GT is a lifestyle car. An A3? Not so much, IMO.



Okay, so I think I need to adjust my terminology and try expressing the idea differently. Lifestyle may be the wrong word, but the goal is to target a particular audience who will be attracted to the technology, athleticism and sharpness of the A3. They're trying to fill in the gaps in the range to give little reason for customers to cross-shop. 

Again, going back to the A5 and A7 Sportback examples: those cars target people who value the aesthetic over the practical, or at least those who place a premium on form over function. The A3 will definitely be much sharper looking than the A4, it will fit into urban settings better, it's better suited to singles/DINKs (dual-income-no-kids), people who like gadgets and place an emphasis on them over driving (ahem...s-tronic only). 

Lifestyle advertising/marketing is exceptionally powerful. Look no further than Subaru's success these past five years. Audi is going to go for the one-two punch here with the A3 - pushing their luxury credentials and also attempting to bring a lot of new people into the fold by targeting a certain demographic with a key lifestyle message.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I see what Travis is trying to say, but this thing is going to grenade in their face if they try to hang their hat on "lifestyle car."
> 
> An X6 is a lifestyle car. A 5GT is a lifestyle car. An A3? Not so much, IMO.


I agree with you Dan. Audi will be taken to the cleaners esp in NA where having a smaller car is not seen as desirable by most consumers.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

kevlartoronto said:


> I agree with you Dan. Audi will be taken to the cleaners esp in NA where having a smaller car is not seen as desirable by most consumers.


Mmm... that's a bit of a stretch. I'm bullish on the A3, I just don't view it as a lifestyle car in the sense I explained above. Smaller is absolutely better for some people. It's one reason I'm buying, even. The A4 is a barge.



Travis Grundke said:


> The A3 will definitely be much sharper looking than the A4, it will fit into urban settings better, it's better suited to singles/DINKs (dual-income-no-kids), people who like gadgets and place an emphasis on them over driving (ahem...s-tronic only).


Booooo. My emphasis is absolutely still on driving. Unless I have to take all the safety monitoring gear to get other essential options, I intend to pass on it, for example.

I realize most buyers probably won't even comprehend the amazing design and capability of the Stronic, but I'm one who understands and appreciates it. I also understand that some just aren't on board with it.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Booooo. My emphasis is absolutely still on driving. Unless I have to take all the safety monitoring gear to get other essential options, I intend to pass on it, for example.
> 
> I realize most buyers probably won't even comprehend the amazing design and capability of the Stronic, but I'm one who understands and appreciates it. I also understand that some just aren't on board with it.


I'm getting the distinct impression that while Audi will market the car as being "sporty" and as "a driver's car" that the A3 won't be nearly as fun as, say, a GTI, nor has powerful or refined as say, an S4. It's going to try and straddle the middle ground between grownup GTI and less expensive A/S4, but at the end of the day Audi is adopting what BMW already has: say one thing but deliver another.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Eh, I'm more concerned about the S3. I can't imagine it will be anything less than a blast.


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## Leke (Jul 29, 2013)

tclky said:


> I'm hoping to see additional press releases that provide more details than the first one put out by Audi of America. It would be great if they mentioned the available A3 models along with standard and optional equipment for each. *Someone posted a rumor earlier about dealers getting a demo in December to facilitate early customer orders*. If that's true then it wouldn't be surprising if at least some pricing data is released at the show.


Looks like a dealership in Florida has been given a sneak peak at a 3-door S3. Car has Michigan plates, too. Since we'll be getting the sedan, I'm doubting that this car will be in LA.. but you never know.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?l=ac5160cfd1&set=a.591859057542360&type=3

I'm wondering if the car will be shown off at major dealerships across the US. If so, this may be a good time to send your local sales manager a couple bottles of wine...


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Leke said:


> Looks like a dealership in Florida has been given a sneak peak at a 3-door S3. Car has Michigan plates, too. Since we'll be getting the sedan, I'm doubting that this car will be in LA.. but you never know.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?l=ac5160cfd1&set=a.591859057542360&type=3
> 
> I'm wondering if the car will be shown off at major dealerships across the US. If so, this may be a good time to send your local sales manager a couple bottles of wine...


Drool.

I suspect that's probably a unit that has been at their testing grounds in FL. I'd be very surprised if it's going to be shown at other dealers, at least intentionally.

... sure would be nice if it happened to end up in Memphis, though.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

The way this configurator is set up, it seems one cannot have LED headlamps and a rain-light sensor. Am I seeing that correctly?


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Leke said:


> Looks like a dealership in Florida has been given a sneak peak at a 3-door S3. Car has Michigan plates, too. Since we'll be getting the sedan, I'm doubting that this car will be in LA.. but you never know.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?l=ac5160cfd1&set=a.591859057542360&type=3
> 
> I'm wondering if the car will be shown off at major dealerships across the US. If so, this may be a good time to send your local sales manager a couple bottles of wine...


Nice, I wonder why Audi sent over the hatch instead of the sedan?


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

Wish I would have known, I would have seen if they would let me look at it, if I made the trip. 

I still wish Audi would bring this also.


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## t.oorboh! (Feb 11, 2012)

Audi's been pretty clear that they are going for sales volume. they've been clear that their looking to sell the A3 to a broader range of the market. most people who are going to buy this car aren't going to be "attracted to the technology, athleticism and sharpness of the A3"

i don't think they're looking to build "brand equity". they're using their brand equity to sell a car built in hungary or mexico that is based on a platform that underpins VW's, SKoda's SEAT's and they'll slap a quattro badge on it, knowing they can draw on the quattro "brand equity"

they're not targeting current Audi owners. they're targeting people moving up from civics, mazda3s, etc.

with that in mind, i think we'll see fwd A3s starting in the same price range of the CLA or lower.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Those that you describe only know "quattro" to be that word for "four" south of the border (yes, it's spelled differently). Brand equity doesn't matter because they have no clue what quattro is.

Audi has very little brand equity in this country; that's BMW and Mercedes you reference, whether that's fair to Audi or not. If they have little to none, it stands to reason that they're looking to build it. I would say they've made good progress in the last year or so with their TDI push, but they're far from where they need to be to sell a car to the masses based on brand equity. See: BMW 3-series.


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## Leke (Jul 29, 2013)

t.oorboh! said:


> Audi's been pretty clear that they are going for sales volume. they've been clear that their looking to sell the A3 to a broader range of the market. *most people who are going to buy this car aren't going to be "attracted to the technology, athleticism and sharpness of the A3"*


I respectfully disagree. Like Dan mentioned, in most people's minds, Audi lags behind MB and BMW. As such, Audi can't go toe to toe with BMW and MB based on name alone. In my opinion, those characteristics you mentioned are what will make most North Americans gravitate to the A3 over the CLA and upcoming 2 Series BMW. Those are the exact reasons why I rank the A3 over the CLA, which I've test driven. For some people, name/prestige will allow them to overlook refinement. Based on the early reviews of the CLA, this seems to be how MB is moving so many units.


Funny story.. A few years ago, my father was looking into an MB SLS. He ultimately went with a V10 R8 instead. I recently went back to the MB dealership (to drive the CLA) and the saleswoman asked me what car he ended up going with. I said, "he went with the Audi." Her response was, "what a shame.." :sly::screwy:


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

t.oorboh -

Part of building the business case for any car is defining who your potential buyers are. Audi wants to attract premium buyers - not value shoppers. Sure, there will be tons of people who come in to look at the car based on whatever that person finds to be attractive (lower price, design, technology, etc.), but that's the goal: get them into the showroom to at least *consider* the Audi. 

As others have mentioned, compared to BMW and MB Audi is the scrappy upstart trying to carve out a name for itself. They're also trying desperately to avoid the same fate as Acura and Infiniti, who have failed to build a brand in the 20+ years those cars have been on the market. To that end, Audi figures it can bring in a whole new generation of buyers with the A3 and then keep them in the brand. Anyone will tell you that the most costly part of sales and marketing is to just get people to pay attention to you in a crowded market. If you can get them into your product and treat them well, then provide a broad range of additional products as tastes change you should be able to keep them in the brand. Lexus built a very profitable, loyal customer base doing this - Acura started down that path, but failed to develop their brand along the way.

As the Chinese automakers have started to recognize: brands matter. They help distinguish the wheat from the chaff, and when you've got a ton of competition having a brand that is recognizable and consistent can sway the decision making for millions. 

The A3, like the CLA, ATS, upcoming 2-Series and even the forelorned ILX are all a way to bring new blood into the brand and introduce them to future possibilities. Mercedes is banking on its substantial brand image to pull people in to look at the CLA. That doesn't mean the CLA is a junk car or that people buying it are doing so just for the badge, but it will attract people who otherwise would never have considered a Mercedes Benz. 

I will agree with you that the A3 is not really targeting current Audi owners - they're targeting people who are new to the brand. That's the goal of this car and I think it will be successful in opening that door. 




t.oorboh! said:


> Audi's been pretty clear that they are going for sales volume. they've been clear that their looking to sell the A3 to a broader range of the market. most people who are going to buy this car aren't going to be "attracted to the technology, athleticism and sharpness of the A3"
> 
> i don't think they're looking to build "brand equity". they're using their brand equity to sell a car built in hungary or mexico that is based on a platform that underpins VW's, SKoda's SEAT's and they'll slap a quattro badge on it, knowing they can draw on the quattro "brand equity"
> 
> ...


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## cyberpmg (Nov 27, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> Those that you describe only know "quattro" to be that word for "four" south of the border (yes, it's spelled differently). Brand equity doesn't matter because they have no clue what quattro is.
> 
> Audi has very little brand equity in this country; that's BMW and Mercedes you reference, whether that's fair to Audi or not. If they have little to none, it stands to reason that they're looking to build it. I would say they've made good progress in the last year or so with their TDI push, but they're far from where they need to be to sell a car to the masses based on brand equity. See: BMW 3-series.


While I agree with Dan that Audi has very little brand equity here in the US, I do believe that it's been on a steady incline that it can start to play a factor (while rather small). Audi has had the difficult challenge of coming back from media disaster (the 60 Minutes report on the sudden acceleration back in the early '80s). Even when that negative publicity was found to be false (and rigged), the damage was already done in the public's eye... so much so that it almost caused Audi to pull out entirely of the US market.

Audi slowly rebuilt a customer base in the US and started to see progress with the introduction of the B5 A4, the C5 A6, the D2 A8, and the Mk 1 TT. The following continued a slow but steady climb until the introduction of the recent models that are on the market today. To me, when these were introduced, it created a very bold statement on the road that got noticed and drew the attention of many new customers. That statement wasn't only with the actual cars on the road, but also an increase in media advertisement and sponsorship of public events. There's a big difference between Audi today and where it was 10 years ago.

While Audi may not be at the same level as BMW or MB in terms of sales volume, I do think the brand image is getting noticed, and that image can play a factor in bringing in new customers.

With that said, I think the A3 will draw in the attention of first time Audi buyers. The real challenge here is how Audi of America plans to market the A3, what packages/options to offer, and finally the price.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

no pricing will be announced at an auto show, (at least not option pricing)
ive been selling audi's for 10 years and we've never gotten pricing more than 1 month before the car was actually for sale. I don't mean base MSRP but all pricing for options.

since the S3 is next summer don't expect pricing to be announced for that until probably May/June

I have 2 co-workers in Germany now for a specialized A3/S3 training and i hope to go to training in the US in Jan or Feb to learn more

*However, the A3 1.8T, 2.0T, TDI, and S3 option list and color information is available to me to view online right now. But the option list is just the option name and not item specifics that breakdown the packages.
*


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

So... any idea if they are going to gimp the S3 by omitting the super sport seats? Any surprises on colors? 

The fact that the unofficial official debut of this car was in March, over a year before it will go on sale (specifically the S3) is just asinine.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

... and, of course I have to ask- can you share what you're seeing?


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

yeh please list all the colors as well if you can.


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

ProjectA3 said:


> no pricing will be announced at an auto show, (at least not option pricing)
> ive been selling audi's for 10 years and we've never gotten pricing more than 1 month before the car was actually for sale. I don't mean base MSRP but all pricing for options.
> 
> .....
> ...


There was some talk of dealers possibly getting a demo car early (December?) to facilitate customer specific orders targeted for spring delivery. Anything you can share on that?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yeah, that too. Brian's probably going to wish he just hadn't said anything. :laugh:

I'm shaking a tree that has no fruit to bear, I assume, but... is the May-June guess for S3 pricing (which would mean July-ish delivery) just a guess based on no more information becoming available in recent weeks (I seem to recall you've been sticking with that time period for the S3 for a while now), or is there fairly solid intel behind that?

I have to admit that your post last night sent me back to cars.com to shop the used Cayman market again. Values are actually going up a bit from where they were when I was shopping earlier this year, it seems. :facepalm:

Anyway, I'm pretty much stuck waiting for the S3 as I'm not allowed to get a Cayman S. I still want the S3, but I'm getting a bit down on it lately. Hopefully going to LA will bring me back up a bit. I also have to set aside the idea that Audi is run the same way as VW (rip out anything halfway decent in Europe before sending the US market the scraps)- but it's hard to set aside what I know.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

I think I may just get a job at the Canadian Auto Show in February, see if I can be the guy driving the cars into the convention center...come S3 time to drive in, might take a detour for a quick coffee run...and never come back...

Interested in color choices and option packages (even though it will be American).


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Come on down to LA, eh chap? :laugh:

I'm quizzing my salesman right now. When I asked him if there was anything other than the standard "bland," "metallic bland," and "light bland" options, he said there are a "few brighter colors."

Samoaorangesamoaorangesamoaorangec'monsamoaorange.


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> ...
> 
> I'm quizzing my salesman right now. When I asked him if there was anything other than the standard "bland," "metallic bland," and "light bland" options, he said there are a "few brighter colors."
> 
> Samoaorangesamoaorangesamoaorangec'monsamoaorange.


I'd like to see the metallic burgundy that is offered on the A3 n Europe. Might also be interesting if they offered some of the early A4 colors (e.g. the yellow and the green) since they are pitching the fact that the A3 has similar exterior dimensions.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

tclky said:


> I'd like to see the metallic burgundy that is offered on the A3 n Europe. Might also be interesting if they offered some of the early A4 colors (e.g. the yellow and the green) since they are pitching the fact that the A3 has similar exterior dimensions.


Shiraz Red?


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Shiraz Red?


Yes. That's it. I saw it on the UK site and that was my top choice of the colors shown there. Would like to pair it with a beige interior.


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

The Shiraz Red came available on the A5 this year. I thought about it a lot. I have seen some pictures where that color looked really good. If you get pics of that car out of the sunlight it turns from a deep red to a purple.....and looses some of its allure.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I believe it's also available on the Q5 (or is it Q7?). I was at the dealership a while back and my salesman was telling me he'd ordered a Shiraz Red Q-something for inventory and thought it would be sharp. He picked up a brochure and took the color swatch out into the sunlight.

What ensued next was a chain of expletives about how he'd have to justify ordering a "****ing purple car" for inventory. It absolutely looks purple in certain lighting.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I'm being told Audi pulled the MY15 information (to include the A3) from the system overnight. Damnit, damnit, damnit. :laugh:

Oh well.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Travis Grundke said:


> ... that the A3 is not really targeting current Audi owners - they're targeting people who are new to the brand. That's the goal of this car and I think it will be successful in opening that door.


Or, even people like me that want to come back to the brand, but could never justify the outlay for an A4 to a spouse. It becomes an alternative to a GTI or Golf-R depending on where the price points wind up.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> I'm being told Audi pulled the MY15 information (to include the A3) from the system overnight. Damnit, damnit, damnit. :laugh:
> 
> Oh well.


nooooooo , why ?!?!


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> nooooooo , why ?!?!


It's more than likely just mere coincidence of timing in this case, but I don't think it's at all outlandish to think they've got someone reading this board from time to time. It's possible that they saw Brian's (ProjectA3) post and then saw a couple of us badgering him for details. I was also trying to work something on my end, only to get that news this morning.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> It's more than likely just mere coincidence of timing in this case, but I don't think it's at all outlandish to think they've got someone reading this board from time to time. It's possible that they saw Brian's (ProjectA3) post and then saw a couple of us badgering him for details. I was also trying to work something on my end, only to get that news this morning.


Honestly, they should just release it...there is no advantage now to staying mum. BMW has made their big splash, the CLA is selling well...


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

caliatenza said:


> Honestly, they should just release it...there is no advantage now to staying mum. BMW has made their big splash, the CLA is selling well...


My gut tells me that there's probably some internal debate still going on as far as packaging, pricing and final HP figures is concerned. Considering the articles these past few days have referenced "spring 2014", that tells me March at the earliest, which also tells me that January will be more likely for final specs to be released.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> I'm getting the distinct impression that while Audi will market the car as being "sporty" and as "a driver's car" that the A3 won't be nearly as fun as, say, a GTI, nor has powerful or refined as say, an S4. It's going to try and straddle the middle ground between grownup GTI and less expensive A/S4, but at the end of the day Audi is adopting what BMW already has: say one thing but deliver another.


Base A3 may not be as fun as the GTI, but it isn't meant to be. As a lighter (MQB - 3050 lbs est.) and better featured car, the base A3 is going to take a lot of sales from would-be "loaded GLI" buyers. The 1.8T A3 might be down on power (~180/~180), but the DSG GLI is 3250 lbs which obliterates its power advantage (200hp/207tq)


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Regarding the "building their brand" subject.

I'm starting to feel more and more that Audi is missing a chance to "own" 2 clear positions in consumers' minds:
1. AWD Quattro heritage/reputation
2. Diesel TDI heritage/reputation

For goodness sakes, forget the goofy e-Tron hybrid for a minute and get additional Diesel Quattro models over here. Is there ANYONE else with an AWD Diesel sedan or hatch in North America? Audi could OWN this position AND charge a premium for it.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

I'll be there on the last day of the show (Dec 1st); excited to see the A3/S3 in person!


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Well dang, that's long after I'm gone.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Waterfan said:


> For goodness sakes, forget the goofy e-Tron hybrid for a minute and get additional Diesel Quattro models over here. Is there ANYONE else with an AWD Diesel sedan or hatch in North America? Audi could OWN this position AND charge a premium for it.


Nailed it. This market is habitually ignored by EVERY manufacturer...and its absolutely crazy!

Subaru had a Diesel Boxer microsite since 2009 esposung the values of the EDM AWD diesel forester and impreza...and then never brought it here. Theres never been a 4MOTION TDI sportwagon or other model from VW here either. Imagine if they had marketed a 4MOTION diesel tiguan. They would have been KILLING that segment, even with the price premium.

WTF!!!

And does it really cost $2-$4000 more for the EA288 versus EA888? Why is that, specifically?


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