# Brake Fade



## rdwong (May 30, 2009)

I drive a gti 337 (mk4 2002) with the audi tt brakes and I got cross drilled rotors and forgot what sort of racing pads, they are very amazing untill this once today....
My coworker insisted i take him for a nice ride home, so i drove easy, 50ish till the oil and all that was warmed up. As it was warming up, i encounted 3 red lights and 2 stop signs, none of which did i slam my brakes to but did slow down for like a normal driver. Once oil warmed up, i started ripping her (modded out.... very fast) and hit around 200km/h or maybe even faster? and then he said oh right on the next lights, normally i wud have had plenty of time to slow down for that corner, but i hit the brakes to slow down a bit and realized my brakes were "faded" or something. It was as if I was running some cheap ass crappy pads..... so i continued to put huge force on the pedal..... if there was gas the cross drilled rotors would have handled that.... but i had crappy braking power, not too too bad, but definetly way worse than i'd ever expect. I was panicing secretly inside, a slight bit, but made the corner.... And since i was panicing, i didn't notice if the pedal went to the floor, and i assume if it did, which it's never been..... then i should have noticed it...... but it was definetly rock solid and abs wasn't kicking nor did the wheels lock up...... last time i did that they did......
After i dropped him off, i played around a bit and my brakes were back to normal.....
Now did the pads get TOO HOT? or were the pads simply TOO COLD to begin with?
If i was racing around for an hour and this happened, I'd be like yea, saw it comming. But this never happened before and I wasn't racing around for an hour before. Nor were the pads too cold since i had a few red lights..... but I can't be certain they were warm enough either..... But for sure it wasn't one of those slam on the brakes and then gradually as it heats up i loose friction... it was more of a slam on brakes and there wasn't much friction to begin with......
gosh i just wanna know what went wrong so it doesn't happen when the actually HAVE to turn or i'll end up in a tree kinda stuff...... 
oh and i don't think its the brake fluid..... but still considering flushing the fluid someday soon.... motul dot5.1..... do i have to flush out every drop of the old stuff including the ones in the abs ? or is it alright to have the dot 4 and the dot 5.1 mix a little? and the good old buddy in the car and me yelling pump pump pump hold, and open the bleeder, top off reservior every 3 times kinda stuff work?
Thanks


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: Brake Fade (rdwong)*

Some "racing pads" are just that..designed to deliver max braking power only when up to full operating temp...(that's why there are "warm up laps" in many races)...if you tried a max effort stop with these types of pads cool...you're SOL! That's why reputable shops won't put true "racing pads" on street cars...they know its dangerous. Make sure whatever you're running is a streetable HD pad, not all out racing set that requires track conditions to develope high braking power!


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## rdwong (May 30, 2009)

thanks, i've been running these pads since i bot this car back in may. THEY HAVE BEEN THE BEST THINGS EVER!!!!! they're racing pads that work well on the streets.... i think.... I mean like i am one of those ****ing retarded *******s you see driving as if i own the damn road...? sorry.... but i do know i need to give them a warmup, and normally one good aggressive stop would be more than enough.... two would be just fantastic. But i didn't do that because i thot a few red lights and stop signs.... didn't stop agressively but more of a moderate but i just think that should warm the pads up real well??? no??? i'm just guessing....... please help me! ahhhhhhh

and thanks


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: (rdwong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rdwong* »_thanks, i've been running these pads since i bot this car back in may. THEY HAVE BEEN THE BEST THINGS EVER!!!!! they're racing pads that work well on the streets.... i think.... I mean like i am one of those ****ing retarded *******s you see driving as if i own the damn road...? sorry.... but i do know i need to give them a warmup, and normally one good aggressive stop would be more than enough.... two would be just fantastic. But i didn't do that because i thot a few red lights and stop signs.... didn't stop agressively but more of a moderate but i just think that should warm the pads up real well??? no??? i'm just guessing....... please help me! ahhhhhhh
Sounds like the best help you could get is for someone to take your keys...B4 you hurt somone..and I'm not talkin about you!...If you're not sure whether or not your pads perform on the street without serious warm up...you should NOT be drivin on the street!...What if you're crusin on the hiway...haven't touched the brakes for a long time...then all of a sudden there's a situation that calls for you to stop in a big hurry to avoid accident...your attitude seems to be: "Well the other guy's just SOL!"....That's not acceptable! Glad I'm not plannin any holiday up in BC anytime soon....at least not B4 you either "grow up" and drive sanely or wreck your car with your driving..hope you don't take anyone else with you!























and thanks



_Modified by spitpilot at 5:23 PM 8-19-2009_


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## rdwong (May 30, 2009)

hey,
um i know for a fact my pads warm up enough for SURE when i drive normally, but i wasn't sure that night because i was a short ride and thats also why i'm not driving fast till i figure out what happened. And yes stay away from bc mwahaha, no i'm just kidding, i sound stupider than i actually am....
But the highway thing...... so the pads cool down enough if i drive around 200km/h for a couple minutes so that i need to drag them to warm them up a bit? 
...... if so then that would be what happened.....
but what does it feel like to be slamming the brakes at 200km/h with cold pads? as if i had cheap pads on all the way? because i just thot they'd warm up pretty fast at that speed that when i'm going 80km/h they'd be real warm and start stoping real well...... wats the deal? i gotta let go of the pedal and reapply?


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## rdwong (May 30, 2009)

oh and by the way i've driven with many racers and well experienced drivers who can tell stupid driving from pushing the limits better than most people can, and believe me when i tell you that they will not hesitate to break my jaw and take my keys away from me if they feel i am a stupid ****ty driver and dangerous on the road. The things I do wrong isn't anything too bad in my mind, the whole thing wtih me used to shifting too fast.... got better at that and stoped realeasing the clutch too fast. And i stoped the changing lanes in intersections. And comming from rwd, I'm now driving with two hands on the wheel at all times other than shifting. (rwd don't torque steer)


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## rdwong (May 30, 2009)

just went for a cool whip..... haha cool whip.... i mean like a rip down the highway few blocks from my place with cool pads (only one stop sign on the way whcih i hardly slowed down for since its midnight and no one ever drives here at this time) and the highway, as usual at this time, is empty. Its a highway to a university campus and only that.... its 12 am on a wedsday night in summer.... who'd be driving there haha.... but yea... hit 180, slammed on her, and she stopped better than last night, very noticably, but not like crazy better, and yet not too much worse than when pads are warm........ kinda in between. felt like a normal car wiht normal brakes....
so if my pads weren't too cold that night.... then why?


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: (rdwong)*

[rant]You are 18, do not know what pads you are running and do not see anything wrong with your driving? I get the impression you do not have the seat time to be anywhere near as good as you think you are. 124mph on public roads is much too fast. Slow TF down. What would have happened if the light had been red?[/rant]


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: (greyhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greyhare* »_[rant]You are 18, do not know what pads you are running and do not see anything wrong with your driving? I get the impression you do not have the seat time to be anywhere near as good as you think you are. 124mph on public roads is much too fast. Slow TF down. What would have happened if the light had been red?[/rant]
 Or if someone had pulled outa a blind intersection???


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## SuckerPunch (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (spitpilot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spitpilot* »_ Or if someone had pulled outa a blind intersection???






























thats never happens when your 18...and with the "racing" brake pads, he would be able to stop


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: (SuckerPunch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SuckerPunch* »_
thats never happens when your 18...and with the "racing" brake pads, he would be able to stop
 Hmmmmmm seems to be happening often around here...always a story in the paper about younger drivers wrappin themselves around something..hopefully just a power pole..not another car with innocent folks in it!...I love to drive fast...smooth and quick, no abusing the machinery and never so fast I can't stay in my lane and anticipate what others may do..and here with all our diverstity...they may do anything, that's how cars are driven in other countries...lane markers are "merely a guide, not meant to actually contain your car"...





















Please reserve you'r "[email protected]'s out" runnin for track daze...lets see what you really bring! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SuckerPunch (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (spitpilot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spitpilot* »_ Hmmmmmm seems to be happening often around here... runnin for track daze...lets see what you really bring! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


i was being sercastic (forgot the







)
amen brother


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## rdwong (May 30, 2009)

sorry cus
i know by areas well and um..... i doubt any cars would be comming out of a fensed forest or comming across the median from the opposite side traffic........... but hey if they do, i'd be pretty screwed even if i was going 50....
oh and umm... yea sadly 18 year olds do think a bit like that.... but hey i've been driving for 3 full years, and for the last 2 years i drive minimum 4 hours a day for 6 days a week....... i don't think my 28 year old sister has that much time on her ass yet....


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: (rdwong)*








Clueless, hopeless.


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## SuckerPunch (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (rdwong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rdwong* »_sorry cus
i know by areas well and um..... i doubt any cars would be comming out of a fensed forest or comming across the median from the opposite side traffic........... but hey if they do, i'd be pretty screwed even if i was going 50....
oh and umm... yea sadly 18 year olds do think a bit like that.... but hey i've been driving for 3 full years, and for the last 2 years i drive minimum 4 hours a day for 6 days a week....... i don't think my 28 year old sister has that much time on her ass yet....

buddy, you think there is a problem with your brakes and your "testing" them at "take me straight to jail" speeds on a public road....what does that say for your driving experience?
they are called accidents for a reason


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (SuckerPunch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SuckerPunch* »_
buddy, you think there is a problem with your brakes and your "testing" them at "take me straight to jail" speeds on a public road....what does that say for your driving experience?
they are called accidents for a reason























Racing friction does not belong on a street vehicle PERIOD. 
Driving 100+mph will significantly cool your brakes rapidly.... and normally even to reach 200+deg C you will have to do some seriously aggressive stops back to back... and I mean like 0.8G+ which is usually very close to ABS lock. 
Of course I am not certain what your issue is, I would put my money on the friction.... but honestly, if you can't figure it out, go buy the cheapest pads at autozone/advanced auto etc that you can find and slap them on there, see if you have better cold bite performance... OR Just go buy some decent street pads in the first place.
No body is going to be able to tell you why one time your brakes work and than the next time they don't, you have absolutely NO data to prove or disprove anything... like pad temp, or G-decel level.
~$.02 don't spend it all in one place


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: Brake Fade (rdwong)*

Do a fluid replacement on your brakes NOW ! ! !
Brake fluid is supposed to be replaced every two years minimum. More often if you have "racing" brake fluid.
Yes, all of the brake fluid needs to be replaced, every drop. Changing some of the brake fluid is not going to to a any good. 
You will need 1.5 to 2.0 quarts. Do not use DOT 5 silicone brake fluid. It gives the brake pedal a spongy feel.
Crud in the brake fluid can prevent the seals in the master cylinder, ABS pump, and at the calipers to leak, and could cause temporary or permanent leakage and failure of the calipers and master cyclinder or ABS Pump. Flushing the brake system removes the crud from the brake system to help prevent this from happening.
IF you don't understand the pump the pedal method of bleeding the brakes or don;t have a friend who can help you, then invest in a power brake bleeder or a vacuum brake bleeder so you can change brake fluid solo.


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## rdwong (May 30, 2009)

Yea.... i know brake flush...... i'm a first year technician..... shouldn't be the problem, brakes feel solid...
but i will do that.
i'm going to use dot 5.1 racing brake fluid.
I'm pretty sure having read on the forum, this car will require vagcom to activate the abs pump to flush the abs reserverviour fluid.... ****ty.....

oh and i did none of the work myself... all this stuff came with the car when i bought it back in may. and the man who did this car knows wat hes doing, several of his cars have been on eurotuner before


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## SuckerPunch (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (rdwong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rdwong* »_Yea.... i know brake flush...... i'm a first year technician..... shouldn't be the problem, brakes feel solid...
but i will do that.
i'm going to use dot 5.1 racing brake fluid.
I'm pretty sure having read on the forum, this car will require vagcom to activate the abs pump to flush the abs reserverviour fluid.... ****ty.....

oh and i did none of the work myself... all this stuff came with the car when i bought it back in may. and the man who did this car knows wat hes doing, several of his cars have been on eurotuner before

you only need to vag the pump if it runs dry


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## rdwong (May 30, 2009)

*Re: (SuckerPunch)*

YEY!!!! thanks
and anything i shud know about rbf?


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