# Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (European Vehicles)



## Toon1526 (Jun 13, 2008)

*Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton*

I have successfully paired my rSAP enabled BlueTooth phone with teh Phaeton system but upon establishing the connection, it goes no further. I have no phone functionality. Has anyone on this forum got any advice for me to fix this. It is very frustrating as it's taken me 3 months to get this far by having to enable the rSAP capability on my phone.
Basically I do not know if the problem lies in the phone or the car. The phone is a HTC E600 (Orange SPV smartphone in UK). The car can see the phone OK but doesn't download any phonebook or data. The Infotainment phone menu screen says "phone unavailable". The armrest phone screen says "Connected to SPV E600"
Hope someone can advise. VW dealer doesn't know.


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## JCD (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (Toon1526)*

I don't have the same phone and my car is pre the Bluetooth option - so shooting totally in the air:
In my Nokia E90 phone, in addition to enabling the basic Bluetooth capability, there is a separate menu item that one has to enable to allow Remote SIM operation - 'Remote SIM mode' has to be set to 'on' within the connection settings paramaters.
Maybe you have already done all this?
John


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## Toon1526 (Jun 13, 2008)

Thanks fo rthis John - yes, I have "Remote SIM mode" selected. Will keep tweaking and trying. I feel so close to fixing this but it's very frustrating. Everything works OK when I put SIM card into unit but that's a bit too fiddly every time I get in and out the car.
John


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## Faszination (Aug 18, 2007)

John,
I have a Nokia 3190 provided by work that pairs reliably with the rSAP kit in my Phaeton and works fine although it irritates me that you have to store all the contacts on the SIM and therefore cannot have different numbers against the same name.
I also have my own personal XDA Orbit(HTC Artemis) and have tried just about everything to make the d**m thing work. I have tried a number of different ROM's (courtesy of XDA Developers) and can get the device to pair but go no further. I have spent ages on this problem but it still just displays 'Telephone not Available'. Research indicates that it is something that Microsoft have done with the bluetooth stack within WM6 that is causing the problem but nobody has found a solution yet although many seem to be trying.
As far as I can see the rSAP kit is a very expensive waste of time unless you are happy to just use Nokia handsets.
Cheers
Ian


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## Toon1526 (Jun 13, 2008)

Thanks for the reply Ian - you describe my problem exactly. After having my hopes built up when successfully downloading teh ROM from XDA Developers I have reached a brick wall and can't go any further. Think I'll just give up. But the other option of inserting the SIM card is so fiddly but at least it works I suppose. Thanks again


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## G132RLG (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: (Toon1526)*

What really annoys me is that it doesnt work with the iPhone, apparently it mostly only works with Nokias, I now have a dedicated phone for the car which somewhat defeats the object of the Bluetooth.
Regardsing the phonebook, I had the same problem, somewhere burried in the menu in the car there is the option to sync the phone or the sim memory - I was using the wrong one.
Hope this helps!
Jeff


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: (Toon1526)*

The whole rSAP saga in one invented by Nokia, only a very selected numbers of vendors have taken it up, and, due to the security chasm it creates, it will never be a ratified standard.
So, the only way to ensure that you have a handset that works with the Nokia kit in the car is to get a Nokia handset - I did not like this aspect either, but I get over it every time I drive the car...
Newer kit in the Touareg (and possibly in the face lifted MY08 cars - I have never played with it) offers more possibilities and much better integration. But for now, we are as stuck as the Bentley owners with the same kits are, Nokia is the only sure way of knowing it will work.
Regards,

J 


_Modified by Realist42 at 12:30 AM 1-21-2010_


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## G132RLG (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: (Realist42)*

Im afraid its no better, Mine is a facelifted car.


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (Toon1526)*

I had the same problem with my Nokia because it had the 'wrong type of Bluetooth'. I was kindly given a list of compatible European phones by the excellent dealership (Robinsons Norwich) which I would be glad to scan and email to anyone interested (I would need your direct email address).
As it happens I was due a free phone upgrade from my service provider and picked one on the Phaeton list and after a quick visit to the dealer the system is paired. And what an absolute boon the Phaeton Bluetooth system is.
The Phaeton phone list includes Siemens, Motorola, Samsung, Blackberry and Ericsson models, as well as Nokia: 37 models in all.
Alternatively, you can ask your own dealership for the list, which is produced by VW Germany (how good is your Deutsch?).


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## Toon1526 (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (Aristoteles)*

Thank you - yes please, I would like to see that approved list of compatible phones as I want to use the Bluetooth setup in the car.
please send to [email protected] 
Tks
John


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (Toon1526)*

A good rule of thumb with Nokia is that all S60 phones on sale today will work. That is the N series - N95, N96, N81, N73 etc, the E Series, E61, E90 etc and all the recent and premium S40 series devices, 6500, 8800 etc, but S40 covers a greater price range, so there might be some in the range that does not do rSAP. 
Safest is to go for a S60 device, they are currently all a safe bet.
Older S60 (version 2 - all current phones are '3rd Edition) will not work, but it was about 2 years since these were on sale with the likes of the N71.

Hope that helps

Best regards,
Johan


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## jlnh (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (Realist42)*

Need rSap? Have a NOKIA (N900) 'phone?
Go to:
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5204
and VOTE - This will force Nokia to include the rSap software for your 'phone.


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (jlnh)*

My N97 pairs fine and you can set it up so it automatically connects when you get in the car without accepting the connection. 
However the car is not getting a phone reception signal where I am living. 
I am on 3 and generally they are not great reception wise but my phone itself has full bars yet the car is getting no reception ! 
Obviously the N97 is a 3g handset I am on a 3g network, will this effect it ?
I have had it working fine but only a couple of times, most of the time its connected but cant be used as there is no phone signal reception (No bars). 
I dont know what solution there is really...
Do you have to wait unit its paired and has recepition before you start driving, I cant imagine that is the case.....


_Modified by alera at 7:15 AM 1-16-2010_


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## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*

I am interested to know if the N97 is now fully integrated with the Phaeton system in all respects. VW and Nkia were non committal about this when I contacted them. 
I currently have a Samsung Omnia - does this have any chance of working with Rsap? It was not on VW list I was sent.


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (pscocoa)*

The N97 is fully and completely integrated, phone book, call logs everything. You have full control it downloads all the required information. 
THe phone can be set to automatically pair - you dont have to accept the connection or anything.
The integration is flawless and works perfectly via the 810 touchscreen and the dash screen using the controls on steering wheel. 
Only problem is I am not really getting any reception on my network. I have a few more setting to try on the phone, I really need to try pairing it with a phone on another network todouble check its not an issue with the cars antenna or something (Doubful)
Some Samsung and SOny handsets do seem to support rsap but its patchy if its not on the list (the n97 certainly isnt) you will just have to try it the dealers know very litlle about these cars or their functionality in my experience and there is hardly any information on the 09 Phaetons on the net.
I have a nasty feeling its down to me being on 3 and its a 3g only network (only falls back to non 3g when 3g not available) I have a feeling the car might not take a 3g phone signal (My A8 had this problem) Most other networks still put out non 3g signals and their handsets are setup for this.


_Modified by alera at 1:30 PM 1-18-2010_


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*

Isn't the 3G data band is different from the GSM voice band? Assuming that the car works on whatever GSM voice band 3 use, 3G shouldn't come into it. There are different bands in use for GSM, offhand I don't know what those bands are in the UK, it tends to be more of a problem in the US (I have a Motorola that works on AT&T in Dallas but not in Chicago!).


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (invisiblewave)*

I know little about it TBH. I do know my 3g phone wouldnt work in my 05 A8.
Like I said it pairs fine integration works pefectly but I get no bars (reception) most of the time.
I have had working a couple of times in town centres in particular.
It seems strange I get perfect reception on the phone itself but the car cant get any signal.


_Modified by alera at 4:47 PM 1-18-2010_


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## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_The N97 is fully and completely integrated, phone book, call logs everything. You have full control it downloads all the required information. 
THe phone can be set to automatically pair - you dont have to accept the connection or anything.
The integration is flawless and works perfectly via the 810 touchscreen and the dash screen using the controls on steering wheel. 
Only problem is I am not really getting any reception on my network. I have a few more setting to try on the phone, I really need to try pairing it with a phone on another network todouble check its not an issue with the cars antenna or something (Doubful)
Some Samsung and SOny handsets do seem to support rsap but its patchy if its not on the list (the n97 certainly isnt) you will just have to try it the dealers know very litlle about these cars or their functionality in my experience and there is hardly any information on the 09 Phaetons on the net.
I have a nasty feeling its down to me being on 3 and its a 3g only network (only falls back to non 3g when 3g not available) I have a feeling the car might not take a 3g phone signal (My A8 had this problem) Most other networks still put out non 3g signals and their handsets are setup for this.

_Modified by alera at 1:30 PM 1-18-2010_

Many thanka for this - I am due an upgrade phone and was going for N97 - I am on Orange Network for 12 years (for my sins). Do you use voice controlled dialling at all?


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (pscocoa)*

Well the only time I get a signal is when 3 falls back onto Orange so I think you will be in luck ! (3 rent bandwidth they dont have their own network as such)
Not used voice yet mainly because I cant get any reception where I am with crappy 3. I would be interested to know if anyone else in the UK using the rsap system has problems with 3 network. TBH I had voice control in the A8 its a nice feature but I hardly used it was very patchy in the A8 you ended up having to repeat everything numerous times.
The N97 works great and also a very nice phone its the first mobile I have ever had that I am truely happy with !
The Mrs has a recent Sony Handset I am going to see if I can get that paired as well.

_Modified by alera at 4:48 PM 1-18-2010_


_Modified by alera at 4:50 PM 1-18-2010_


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## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_
Not used voice yet mainly because I cant get any reception where I am with crappy 3. I would be interested to know if anyone else in the UK using the rsap system has problems with 3 network. TBH I had voice control in the A8 its a nice feature but I hardly used it was very patchy in the A8 *you ended up having to repeat everything numerous times.*

_Modified by alera at 4:48 PM 1-18-2010_

_Modified by alera at 4:50 PM 1-18-2010_


This feature of repeating yourself numerous times must have been designed by my Mrs!!!


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (pscocoa)*

I tried the phone in 3g mode only - not getting a signal anywhere !
So it looks like my fears were correct the car doent seem to accept a 3g signal


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*

*Archival Note: * Another discussion of a similar topic: rSAP phones.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*

Hello Alera! Yep, your findings make sense. As the rSAP means there is a "real" phone with the radio module and all in the car, it takes over all the duties from you N97 when you pair it with the car. And since the car kit is intended only (or at least mainly) for speech communications, it would not have made much sense to include a 3G capable phone in the car. 
I personally have never heard of a mobile operator who would support 3G only, meaning that you could not use "older" handsets in that network. In most networks you could even use the 900 MHz "1g" phones! Not all operators support them any more, so you will need to have at least a "2g" device with support for 1800 MHz band. As most handsets in use are still only "2g" capable and since it is expensive (not feasible) to build a dense 3G network in sparsely populated areas, I have not heard of "3g locked" operators before.
My understanding is that your only option is to change over to another operator without that "forced 3g". You might want to talk to your operator first: perhaps they have issued you a special SIM card and by changing it to another type you could get rid of that 3g lock?
Perhaps someone can confirm my assumption that the integrated Nokia phone/rsap device in the Phaeton is "2g only". Right now I am only 90% sure that it is the case. 
Jouko


_Modified by jkuisma at 7:59 AM 1-20-2010_


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## JCD (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (jkuisma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jkuisma* »_
I personally have never heard of a mobile operator who would support 3G only, meaning that you could not use "older" handsets in that network.

That is the point, the Operator '3' just runs a 3G network - they do however have a partnering agreement with a 2G operator so that users' phones will fall back to 2G when outside their 3G coverage. So, for a short time you should be able to operate using a 2G phone however if you use it for too long / too often they will cut you off - this is all detailed in the contract that Alera would have signed with 3 so should not be too much of a surprise (unless simply a company phone etc and there was no visibility to the contract). The reason behind this is that for every call made using their partner's network it costs 3 money - they would rather that you use their network which is cheaper for them.
I am interested that Alera says that he can not get any network coverage when using rSAP - my Phaeton just has the fixed 900mHz phone.
Alera, as a final check - suggest that you find a location where your N97 phone works on 3's 3G network and that there is also Orange 2G coverage and then try rSAP through the Phaeton. If nothing, then 3 must be blocking it in their network somehow. My guess is that the Phaeton is simply equipped with a dual band 2G transceiver operating on 900/1800 Mhz.
FYI, re 2G: Vodafone and O2 use 900 MHz, Orange an T-Mobile use 1800 Mhz.
John 

_Modified by JCD at 9:07 AM 1-20-2010_

_Modified by JCD at 9:08 AM 1-20-2010_


_Modified by JCD at 9:13 AM 1-20-2010_


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_I know little about it TBH. I do know my 3g phone wouldnt work in my 05 A8.
Like I said it pairs fine integration works pefectly but I get no bars (reception) most of the time.
I have had working a couple of times in town centres in particular.
It seems strange I get perfect reception on the phone itself but the car cant get any signal.

_Modified by alera at 4:47 PM 1-18-2010_

The 3G/2G part is to do with data transmission. GSM is the protocol used for voice. In terms of voice, there's no "2G" or "3G" network, it's GSM, and operates on various frequencies (as does HSDPA (the name for the 3G protocol)). 
GSM frequences are 850/900/1900 (and others, depending on country).
I believe 3 use UMTS 2100 for their 3G connection.
What's probably happening is either the car doesn't operate on whichever GSM frequency 3 use (unlikely I'd have thought, but you never know until you see the specs), OR to use the 3 network, your phone has to communicate with the network on the UMTS 2100 frequency before the GSM voice connection will work, and the car likely doesn't do that (I believe 3 only allow phones with 3G capability, don't they?). Therefore, if the car's getting a GSM signal from 3, it won't try to register on the Orange network, even though it can't register on the 3 network because it lacks the UMTS 2100 capability. Once you're out of the 3 coverage area, the car's no longer getting a GSM signal from 3, so will roam on Orange.


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## JCD (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (invisiblewave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_
The 3G/2G part is to do with data transmission. GSM is the protocol used for voice. In terms of voice, there's no "2G" or "3G" network, it's GSM, and operates on various frequencies (as does HSDPA (the name for the 3G protocol)).


Invisibleware,
I am afraid the above is incorrect, 2G and 3G carry both voice and data; 3G allows for greater data bandwidth. HSDPA is simply an extension to 3G data that allows for even faster data - usually then referred to 3.5G data.
John


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (JCD)*

Thanks for the correction.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (JCD)*

John, what does 3 use the 2100 band for?


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## JCD (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (invisiblewave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_what does 3 use the 2100 band for?

You were quite correct in saying that 2100 Mhz is used for 3G (UMTS) in the UK and Europe - in some territories 3G/UMTS is used on 900 MHz. I believe that 3 UK will be just using 2100 MHz but would to need to check to be 100% sure.
John


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (JCD)*

Basically it only works when there is no 3g signal and these days everywhere has a 3g signal ! When there is no 3g signal It does fall back to orange but this happens very infrequently.
I remember this issue being raised before 3 severley limit the 2g capabilities on their network because of the costing issues.
Unfortunately I have around 12 months left on my contract so I will have to wait until its up and then switch to a provider that transmits on 3g and 2g








I guess there is no way round this as the car cant take a 3g signal and there is no way to "Force" it into only looking for a 2g signal.
Other than that the integration is awesome I will just get a pay as you go sim like I had with A8 and use that in the car, but not using my contract or number I am basically back to where I was witht he A8 !
UPDATE

Looking around it MIGHT be possible to set my phone up to connect to 2g network...
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/fo...87072
Time for another play.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "3" 2G network is likely to be Orange's 2G coverage, or in some cases it might still be linked to O2.
3's firmware on their phones allows a manual selection but will search for their "home" signal at regular intervals and if it finds it will long back on to that.

3's firmware on their phones allows a manual selection but will search for their "home" signal at regular intervals and if it finds it will long back on to that.

That is correct it states o2 and orange as 3 networks. Word of caution though the two 3 phones I have tried setting to manual network selection don't work and within 30 seconds of changing it is already trying to get back onto the 3g network.

Debrand your three phone and use the generic firmware
Then you can use the gsm only setting without any of this 30 second nonsence. 

Right it seems I have to debrand the phone and then I can use in normal gsm mode if required....
There are plenty of guides on debranding on the net but I cant be bothered bricking my phone so off to the local phone shop tommorow, sure they will debrand it for me and get it properly setup with the latest firmware.

_Modified by alera at 12:01 PM 1-20-2010_


_Modified by alera at 12:02 PM 1-20-2010_


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (JCD)*

Ok, sorry for all the questions, but I want to switch my UK sim card, so I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
It sounds as if (correct me if I'm wrong!) the 3 network operates on UMTS (true 3G) on the 2100 band and they don't operate GSM (2G, 2.5G, 2.75G) on any other frequency? Assuming that's the case, is the original problem we were discussing merely that the Phaeton doesn't do UMTS either at all or at least not on the 2100 band? And it can't switch to Orange on another GSM band because there just happens to be no coverage in that area, or it's somehow blocked where 3 coverage is available?


_Modified by invisiblewave at 12:17 PM 1-20-2010_


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*

Blimey! Think I'll just stick with the bluetooth headset in my 2004 car!


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (invisiblewave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_or it's somehow blocked where 3 coverage is available?

THis exactly - 3 mobile block 2g access IF 3g signal is available. 
If I debrand the phone I can set the phone up to use standard GSM BUT if 3 catch you doing this they send a "Cease" text message and can cancel your services (And you still have to pay for duration of contract) if you dont stop.
But I would only stick the phone in gsm when I am in the car and want to use the phone, so will probably be fine.
So I will go to a local phone shop tommorow and see if they can debrand my handset, providing I dont loose core functionality like internet access I will get it done and see if it works.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*

Hmmm, I'd be interested to hear the outcome. I run a rooted, unlocked Android phone with a customized ROM. It has the UMTS 2100 band, but it sounds as if 3 might not be the way to go. The standard ROM on mine doesn't allow tethering for laptops, T-Mobile prefer to sell you a dongle and charge you twice for a 3G connection.
Do you not have any definitive frequency specifications for the Phaeton?


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## JCD (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_
But I would only stick the phone in gsm when I am in the car and want to use the phone, so will probably be fine.

I too am interested in the outcome, the only point that does not completely gel here is the fact that I would doubt that the N97 phone network setting would make any difference when in rSAP mode. Ie, using rSAP shuts down the main transceiver in the handset and uses the car transceiver instead - just allowing the car phone to authenticate using the details off the SIM in the N97 using rSAP over Bluetooth.
I don't know whether the above is the case or not having never used rSAP in the flesh. Interesting to hear the outcome.
John


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (JCD)*

It must be getting network connection settings from the phone though surely ? Its using the rsap system in the car but its cloning the sim and settings from the phone thats how I thought it worked ?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (JCD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JCD* »_Ie, using rSAP shuts down the main transceiver in the handset and uses the car transceiver instead - just allowing the car phone to authenticate using the details off the SIM in the N97 using rSAP over Bluetooth.
I don't know whether the above is the case or not having never used rSAP in the flesh. Interesting to hear the outcome.
John

That's my understanding as well. Which is a strange approach to take, given the rate of change in the mobile phone market. Personally, I'd rather have less integration and more flexibility in the phone connectivity so I could upgrade the phone as and when required, otherwise you're limited to what you can do by the capabilities of the hardware in the vehicle.


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (invisiblewave)*

If it was only using the sim though it would always fall back to Orange (as its always available where I am) as it cant use the 3g signal ?
There is definately something on the handset telling it to default to 3g where available or could it be the sim doing this ?
My friend has a non 3 nokia I will see him over the weekend pair his phone with my car and see what happens.
Just reading some threads on an Audi forum RE rsap - guy couldnt get his 3 phone working either, it was suggested that new vrsion of sim card could solve the problem (Not sure why) My sim is Ancient....

_Modified by alera at 3:45 PM 1-20-2010_


_Modified by alera at 3:46 PM 1-20-2010_


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*

From what JCD was saying, it sounds as if you may be prevented from using Orange in areas where there's a 3 signal available, that might be a network restriction rather than something to do with the phone or the car.


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_
THis exactly - 3 mobile block 2g access IF 3g signal is available. 
If I debrand the phone I can set the phone up to use standard GSM BUT if 3 catch you doing this they send a "Cease" text message and can cancel your services (And you still have to pay for duration of contract) if you dont stop.
But I would only stick the phone in gsm when I am in the car and want to use the phone, so will probably be fine.
So I will go to a local phone shop tommorow and see if they can debrand my handset, providing I dont loose core functionality like internet access I will get it done and see if it works.

Hi,
It is not a case of catching you, if the 3 network works as it should, your phone will send a roaming request to 3 through the Orange/O2 (whichever it is now) network. the request contains information about where in the network you are connecting, if that location is not on a blacklist (i.e. 3 knows that the have no coverage) the phone is allowed to register. If not, you will get a 'Emergency Calls Only' registration with the network if sticking to 2G. This is how traditional 'National Roaming' has been setup in many countries as it give control to the operator to tune how much it allows the handsets to use the roaming partner.... This said, I have no knowledge (I could find out if anyone needs me to) about the specifics of 3 roaming setup with their 2G partner network. What is quite common with the setup I mentioned is that in more rural areas, i.e. outside metropolitan areas, the blacklist is often out of date and may well allow 2G registration when it should not be allowed, thus the custom software on the phones will help in making the phones hang on to 3G until there is absolutely not chance of making a call. And to catch anyone who tries to use the service with a 2G handset, you have the SMS/Contract cancellation route. 3 is a '3G only' network... The Phaeton is a 2G only car...
It is also worth noting that there is a significant difference is characteristics between 2G(GSM) and 3G(WCDMA) in terms of how coverage work. GSM has a linear coverage, the further away you are from a cell, the weaker the signal - Easy! GSM is fixed frequency TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...ccess 
3G(WCDMA)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCDMAon the other hand is much tricker as it is based on spread-spectrum, where the best analogy is a Pub in a city on a Friday, get there a 4pm, and it is easy to place your order, get there a 7pm, you have to really shout to get heard. 3G is the same, the more handsets that occupy a cell, the more noise in the cell, and more noise results in less coverage. This is called 'cell breathing', and the point of this is that is seriously affects the 'Area Blacklist' (and you battery performance regardless if you are making a call or not) ...And if someone is using HSPA (HSDPA & HSUPA), well that is like the band playing in the corner of the pub, playing very loud! 
Hope this helps a little with the general understanding of the differences between 2G and 3G (they are like chalk and chees







)
rgds 
J


_Modified by Realist42 at 1:02 AM 1-21-2010_


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (Realist42)*

Right last night I got the extensive Phaeton manual out and had a further play, there is a "Select operator" function where you choose which network you connect to.
Tried this whilst paired with my phone and phone in automatic network selection mode - couldnt change network in car. Put phone in"manual" mode it brought up the same available networks as were being shown on the phone in "manual" mode inb the car control screen.
However as with the phone itself it wouldnt let me connect to any of the available networks including the 3 - 3 networks shown - presumably because of the custom firmware on the phone ?
Can I take from this that Rsap in the car is taking the network connection settings from the phone ? If this was the case debranding the phone so I can "force" the handset and thus the car into gsm might work.
What are peoples thoughts is it worth me debranding the phone ? I will loose some 3 functionality and my warranty so its probably not worth doing if there is little or no chance of success.
I am going over to Wimslow today to one of the few areas its gone into Orange roaming mode so will have another play with it.


_Modified by alera at 4:28 AM 1-21-2010_


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## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*

As I mentioned a few days ago - I am with Orange and due an upgrade. Requested upgrade today and Orange advised that N97 Mini has been discontinued. Looking at Orange site they are trimming back their involvement with Nokia. Seems to be same with Vodafone.
Tried to ring Nokia but their customer service is rubbish and had to hang up.
Will have to deal with this eventually - I have an old Nokia 6500 Slide lurking in a drawer somewhere so may put that back into service as it is on the Phaeton list.
I will be in Africa for 5 weeks of next 8 or so not a big issue for now I suppose.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (pscocoa)*

That's interesting to hear. Nokia's in a very tough spot now. They've got nothing to touch either the iPhone or Android, and every day they fall further behind in the app race. I've always found Nokia products to be vastly superior to the competition, but I fear their days are numbered in the handset market. I waited and waited for the N97 to arrive, and when it did it was a huge disappointment and I went Android instead.


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (invisiblewave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_That's interesting to hear. Nokia's in a very tough spot now. They've got nothing to touch either the iPhone or Android, and every day they fall further behind in the app race. I've always found Nokia products to be vastly superior to the competition, but I fear their days are numbered in the handset market. I waited and waited for the N97 to arrive, and when it did it was a huge disappointment and I went Android instead.

I have never been a fan of Nokia to be honest, but I am even less a fan of touchscreen phones, yes they have their uses, but typing on them is not one for me, I like the tactile feedback of a button. In that space, Nokia still rules, but I agree, it is a shrinking demand for this segment... 
I've been there with touch screen devices, I have an iPod touch, and I currently run a E72 as my main phone. I love the iPod as a device, but I would never want it as my phone... I fear the day when Nokia gives up and start cutting back, what phone will I get then???
rgds 
J



_Modified by Realist42 at 10:49 AM 1-21-2010_


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (alera)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alera* »_Right last night I got the extensive Phaeton manual out and had a further play, there is a "Select operator" function where you choose which network you connect to.
Tried this whilst paired with my phone and phone in automatic network selection mode - couldnt change network in car. Put phone in"manual" mode it brought up the same available networks as were being shown on the phone in "manual" mode inb the car control screen.
However as with the phone itself it wouldnt let me connect to any of the available networks including the 3 - 3 networks shown - presumably because of the custom firmware on the phone ?
Can I take from this that Rsap in the car is taking the network connection settings from the phone ? If this was the case debranding the phone so I can "force" the handset and thus the car into gsm might work.
What are peoples thoughts is it worth me debranding the phone ? I will loose some 3 functionality and my warranty so its probably not worth doing if there is little or no chance of success.
I am going over to Wimslow today to one of the few areas its gone into Orange roaming mode so will have another play with it.

_Modified by alera at 4:28 AM 1-21-2010_

Hi,
There is a field in the SIM card for the name of the home network, it could be this that the phone picks up. I don't think that your edge case was ever considered to be honest. It is an odd one, as you are with a 3G provider, but don't have access to GSM, and the Car expects that network to be available via GSM. As for not letting you connect, well that is the network barring you, you are in an area with 3G coverage, hence 2G is a big no-no.
The sad thing with the new kit is that it is not longer able to take a SIM card directly, the interim kit that I have in my MY07, can do both. So just using a PAYG SIM is a little out of the question, unless you have a spare handset that can do RSAP...
rgds
J


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton (Realist42)*

Well I have 11 months left on my cotnract so when its up I will move to another network - orange most likely.
Personally I really like the N97, I like the fact it has a proper keyboard and the touch screen although not as good as the ipods is useful for web browsing. Its a nice phone what you loose is the apple technology and of course all the nice apps.
Personally I admire the I Touch / Phone technology but I hate Apple as a company, I dont like the fact they make you use their propriatary formats and their drive to sell all these addon productss. 
The technology is good but its not that well made, everything is built to a cost, quality and reliability suffers the sound quality on their mp3 players is far inferior to similar and even lesser priced sony products.


_Modified by alera at 11:19 AM 1-21-2010_


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## Ivorbigun (Apr 10, 2011)

I have discovered rSAP the name tells you Sim Access profile you NEED a compatable sim card not just phone 
if your sim card is old or old tech ask you operator for an up to date sim for rSAP 
i have been trying to connect in the MY2011 TT


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Ivor makes a very good point above - in order to use paired devices that take advantage of the rSAP technology (like: Phaetons  ), you need to have *BOTH *an rSAP compatible phone and a sufficiently up-to-date SIM card installed in the phone. 

If you go out and buy the latest, greatest phone that slices, dices, supports rSAP and can also be used as a shaver in the morning, but you continue to use a 5 or 10 year old SIM card in it, you will not be able to utilize the rSAP capabilities of the phone. 

rSAP (Remote SIM Access Profile) is one example of a large number of Bluetooth profiles that can be used to pair various devices together using Bluetooth personal area network technology. It is beyond the scope of our forum to get into explanations of how Bluetooth works (except, perhaps, for the specific details involved in operating the Bluetooth components installed in the Phaeton). The best source of information I have been able to find about rSAP (Remote SIM Access Profile) - which is sometimes referred to simply as SAP - is on the German language Wikipedia site. 

Here is the link: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_Access_Profile 

You can get an adequate translation from German to English if you access this link via Google Language Tools. 

Michael


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## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

*Iphone 4S dont pair with Bleutooth of the card with new SIM and everything.*

Its impossible to have the Iphone 4 or 4 S pairing in the phaeton ( mine pheaton 2008) with a strange original mobilephone in the rest arm area 

My Blackberry and the one from my wife pair with no problems at all with the Phaeton, I can see even the contacts on the car screen etc ( all data from the sim card) but my iphone 4S its a pain in the ass ( sorry for the word) 

In the main screen of the car I do - New pairing, and the car detects the iphone and the Iphone detects the car, then the Iphone ask the key to finish the pairing , which I have in the screen of the car, so I put that key all seams to work and suddently, the message saying unable to connect via bleutoth 

always the same error .. i tried many times.. 

there is an update or something to let this 2 pair each other ? ( iphone - Phaeton?) 

Geoffrey


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## gekon111a (May 13, 2010)

geoffrey_fake said:


> Its impossible to have the Iphone 4 or 4 S pairing in the phaeton ( mine pheaton 2008) with a strange original mobilephone in the rest arm area
> 
> My Blackberry and the one from my wife pair with no problems at all with the Phaeton, I can see even the contacts on the car screen etc ( all data from the sim card) but my iphone 4S its a pain in the ass ( sorry for the word)
> 
> ...


I tried one sportly iPhone 4 with Phaeton 2008/2009 - conection and download of phonebook was positive. I have not tested 4s, but I suggest first to try to update iPhone and see if It helps.


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## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

gekon111a said:


> I tried one sportly iPhone 4 with Phaeton 2008/2009 - conection and download of phonebook was positive. I have not tested 4s, but I suggest first to try to update iPhone and see if It helps.


Hi Gekon 

what do you mean by update iphone ?

The BBerry of my wife works perfectly, the only thing is you have to save all contacts to your Sim Card, and after its amasing, with the pheaton phone which is located under the rst amr in the center console, you have to take it and put your SIM CARD PIN, once its done then you can fully operate from that phone if you want - send sms or call or check for people in your phone book etc, or you can do also from your main screen, go in PHONE and then you can chose a name from your contacts to call etc etc... something funny if someone send you an sms or other while your driving, you can read it throug the main screen ( the nav screen) its amasing, you can also use the voice botton in your steering wheel and ask to call a contact name in your phonebook, and it works perfectly too.

its really a shpiiii that it doenst work with Iphones.. crap :banghead:


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## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

*solution to rSAP for Iphone 3G and iphone 4*

there is a simple solution for Iphone 3G and Iphone 4 however they are working on for Iphone 4S 

here the link. 

http://www.jens-david-consulting.co...y-en/category-products-en/17-rsapserver3gs-en


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## kris11 (May 15, 2012)

Still no easy fix for iphone to Phaeton with bluetooth?


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## Greger (May 31, 2012)

*Problems connect the cellphone*



Aristoteles said:


> I had the same problem with my Nokia because it had the 'wrong type of Bluetooth'. I was kindly given a list of compatible European phones by the excellent dealership (Robinsons Norwich) which I would be glad to scan and email to anyone interested (I would need your direct email address).
> As it happens I was due a free phone upgrade from my service provider and picked one on the Phaeton list and after a quick visit to the dealer the system is paired. And what an absolute boon the Phaeton Bluetooth system is.
> The Phaeton phone list includes Siemens, Motorola, Samsung, Blackberry and Ericsson models, as well as Nokia: 37 models in all.
> Alternatively, you can ask your own dealership for the list, which is produced by VW Germany (how good is your Deutsch?).


 Hi there! I should be very happy if it was posible for me to get that phonelist with 37 different phones.


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## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

*rSAP*

Very bad news 


I have a Pheton 2008 and the rSAP always worked perfectly with my BlackBerry, but not with Iphone, but its understandable as Iphone dont share the sim

But now I bougt a Samsung Galaxy Note 2, and when I tried to pair with the Phaeton, I got a big deception, it works very random, the car detects the phone, I connect and I got a key of a few numbers to put on the phone wich I do, and then sometimes the car ask for the SIM code ( 4 digit) and the stuck on " downloading contacts" it never went further then that and that the best I can get, normally it doens't ask the SIM code or most of the times it just abort after a few minutes, impossible to pair completely

I took my black berry and it worked all in less then a minute.

So be carefull with the SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE 2 it doenst pair in Phaetons ( specially mine 2008)


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