# ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis....



## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

I found a ton of threads on AW about the problems Super Blue causes with seals in the clutch salve cylinder. Is this the same for VW's?


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## Electron Man (Sep 21, 1999)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (SlvrBllt)*

Yes.


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## vw'r'us (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (SlvrBllt)*

Does the Jetta have a hydraulic clutch? Anyways, can't use it in cars with hydraulics clutches where the fluid is supplied by the brake system. It will cause a very squeaky clutch.


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## mk3dub (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (vw'r'us)*

so....I should or shouldn't use this in my 96 jetta 2.0?


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (mk3dub)*

the answer is no ... do not use in hydraulic clutch circuits ... in fact do not use any high temp/high performance brake fluid in clutch circuits - use only manufacturer recommended hydraulic fluid in clutch circuits ...
there are no combined brake & clutch hydraulic fluid reservoirs ... in N.A. mandated by DOT regs reservoirs must be seperate fluid volumes ... 1950's renault is only car that I can remember, have combined brake & clutch reservoir ...


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## mk3dub (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kwokTTQ)*

well i have a liter sitting here....Neuspeed recommended that I use it. Damn...


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (mk3dub)*

quote:[HR][/HR]so....I should or shouldn't use this in my 96 jetta 2.0?







[HR][/HR]​Your 2.0L car doesn't have a hydraulic clutch. 
ATE Super Blue works great in brake systems. It is specifically designed for brake systems.
ATS Super Blue doesn't work well in hydraulic clutch systems. You don't have a hydraulic clutch, so there's nothing to worry about for you. If you had a VR6 or 1.8T car, or any VW with a hydraulic clutch, you should not use the ATE Super Blue fluid (or any high performance brake fluid) in the clutch system. Use it only in brake systems.


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## mk3dub (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (Racer_X)*

i must have misread the post, the way I took it was that I couldn't use the ATE in my brake lines because it was combined with my clutch system....is it? I didn't think it was, and actually I have never done any clutch work on this car so I never had the reason to check it. If my 020's clutch is not hydraulic, then what is it? Can it be adjusted? Excuse my ignorance on this matter...


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (Racer_X)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ATS Super Blue doesn't work well in hydraulic clutch systems. You don't have a hydraulic clutch, so there's nothing to worry about for you. If you had a VR6 or 1.8T car, or any VW with a hydraulic clutch, you should not use the ATE Super Blue fluid (or any high performance brake fluid) in the clutch system. Use it only in brake systems. [HR][/HR]​
PSSST since the corrado, mk3 and MK4 hydrolics are linked to the brakes, that means you shouldn't use it at all. However, 2 years of ATE blue and no issues....go figure. I also know many MK3 VRs and corrados running super blue without issue.
If your a cable clutch it depends on the cable, MK3 and up they had self adjusting cables.


[Modified by jamesb, 1:26 PM 4-14-2003]


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (jamesb)*

quote:[HR][/HR]PSSST since the corrado, mk3 and MK4 hydrolics are linked to the brakes, that means you shouldn't use it at all. However, 2 years of ATE blue and no issues....go figure. I also know many MK3 VRs and corrados running super blue without issue.[HR][/HR]​Are you certain that the hydraulic systems are linked or use a common reservoir? Every car I've owned with a hydraulic clutch had a completely separate hydraulic system with a completely separate reservoir. I thought that Federal safety standards required this separation. I've never seen a car with a common reservoir for both the clutch and the brakes. There's so many things wrong with that type of design from a potential failure stand point that I don't know where to begin. For example, a leaking clutch slave cylinder allowing all of the fluid to leak out of the brake system reservoir would be highly suboptimal.
Usually VW does pretty good with the fail-safe features (things like dual-diagonal brake systems and the like), and I can't imagine they would sell vehicles with this type of single point of potential failure.


[Modified by Racer_X, 6:48 PM 4-14-2003]


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (Racer_X)*

Ok look really closly at any VR or MK4, There is a small resevior for the Clutch, but its sealed. I also know this because when I bled my system I bleed blue out the slave too.
There is a fail safe the the leak, you would have to pump the clutch a lot to get that out. That is how it draws from the system. I know of noone who actually let their brake light stay on without stopping or checking something out. But there are failsafes to keep it from draining the whole system.


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (jamesb)*

jamesb
my mistake - yes "blue" will bleed out of clutch because there is side nipple on white resin brake fluid reservoir at mid-level point - DOT permits this under exemption "fleet fuel mileage improvements" (vehicle weight reduction) & yes VAG has incorporated to reduce front end cost & comply with EU environmental regs re: reduced disposal of hazardous substances - again my mistake regarding A4 chassis (all models) having hydraulic pedal clutch ...
I had thought this combined reservoir had been revised for N.A. market, but was
not ... locating clutch supply nipple at centre of brake reservoir wall, will prevent complete draining of "brake" fluid ... but it really isn't desirable ...
and yes, ATE Blue is not suitable for clutch circuit ...
a separate "small" clutch fluid reservoir is required & is available - simple firewall mount next to brake reservoir --- and brake reservoir from automatic transmission car having clutch nipple cap is also required (or some type of closure) ...
there is factory clutch reservoir available at modest cost to facilitate this mod ...


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kwokTTQ)*

regarding separate clutch master cylinder reservoir pls see:
http://www.vwmotorsport.com this is site in ireland ...
pls view "vw golf 4 kitcar" icon near bottom of page ... go to pg 164 & view pn 191-721-006 reservoir & pn g4h-613-673 adapter ... 
the formula vw catalogue also lists clutch reservoir ... the beetle cup catalogue does not - combined reservoir same as your car ...



[Modified by kwokTTQ, 4:46 AM 4-15-2003]


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## mk3dub (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kwokTTQ)*

damn im just gonna use it in my car and be happy with it


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## bxr140 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (Racer_X)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Are you certain that the hydraulic systems are linked or use a common reservoir?[HR][/HR]​yep. both of my corrados (93 and 92, both vr6, both with ABS) have a single hydraulic system. there is a low/no pressure hydraulic line running from the clutch master to the main resivior on top of the clutch master/abs pump assy. i don't recall off hand if the non-abs corrados have seprate systems. 
i assume at least all A3's are the same way, as well as passats of similar vintage, although i don't know that for sure. 
i've run superblue in my 93 for probably 20-25k miles with no problems (or at least none that i noticed), and plan on superblue (or something similar) in my 92 once i get around to bleeding the system. 
what specifically is it about "high performance" fluid that makes it bad?


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (bxr140)*

as wet & dry boiling points are raised, properties such as fluid lubricity are altered ... brake piston seal compounds are also modified ... clutch master/slave piston seal compounds seldom revised ... so while brake seals will tolerate lower lubricity fluid, clutch circuit seals may not (& do not as shown by ...) ...
there are also other changes in high performance brake fluids (there are several recognized formulas/bases) requiring corresponding seal compound revisions ...
a separate clutch reservoir filled with factory oem brake fluid is one solution ... another is to obtain high temp clutch circuit seals (usually only available by purchasing complete master & slave cylinder assemblies from motorsports division) & continuing to use combined reservoir w/ATE "blue" or "amber" fluid ...


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## theblur (Sep 14, 2000)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (mk3dub)*

quote:[HR][/HR]damn im just gonna use it in my car and be happy with it







[HR][/HR]​do it. mk3 2.0's had a self adjusting cable operated clutch, not hydraulic. i use ate blue in my gti, and it works great! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kwokTTQ)*

well whichever. seriously, 6 years, second car with hydrolic clutch running ATE no problems. you do what you think is right, I will do what I experienced to be no issue.


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (jamesb)*

perhaps it will benefit most viewers of this thread by a recap:
1. when ATE "Blue" or "Gold" or other high boiling point brake fluid is used in Audi brake systems, the clutch master/slave cylinder piston seals will "squeak & leak" & sometimes fail completely, resulting in inoperable clutch, i.e. gears grind when shifting ... the clutch seal compound is abraiding against cylinder surface & possibly adhering to cylinder surface, resulting in seal lip failure ,,,
2. the brake system seals tolerate ATE "Blue"/"Gold" without any issues ...
3. the brake & clutch reservoir are combined in various VAG models ... brake fluid is used by the clutch hydraulic circuit ... 
4. the supplier of clutch seals may be different for VAG north america / VAG europe / VAG asia auto production line regional sites & clutch seal compound specifications may vary until present inventories are fully used up ...
5. the use of non-factory oem brake fluid is not the responsibility of VAG ...
now, there are (3) possible solutions:
A. do not upgrade the factory brake fluid, in your car ...
B. upgrade the factory brake fluid & "chance it" ... hoping that you will not have to pay for transmission repairs ...
C. upgrade the factory brake fluid & install separate small clutch reservoir & fill clutch circuit with factory oem brake fluid ...
perhaps upgraded clutch seals will be introduced - perhaps not ... I do not know ...


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## kewl20v (May 15, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kwokTTQ)*

Is this just a problem w/ ATE blue/gold fluids? Any other manufacters of fluids?
Also, is it 5.1 fluid that should be used on a mk4 1.8t/5spd? I'll research other manufacters later. 
thanks


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kewl20v)*

So ATE, a German brake manufacturer/supplier, has created a brake fluid that should not be used in cars that account for like 40% of German Domestic Market sales? I find that hard to believe.......


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## a2vwnick (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (tyrolkid)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So ATE, a German brake manufacturer/supplier, has created a brake fluid that should not be used in cars that account for like 40% of German Domestic Market sales? I find that hard to believe.......







[HR][/HR]​especially when my brake fluid reservor says ate on it.


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (a2vwnick)*

teves (ATE) is not the problem; ATE brake components & brake fluids are top quality --- the problem is a combined brake/clutch fluid reservoir & clutch master/slave seals "not made by teves (ATE)" - clutch seals may be SWF (or other) & clutch seal compound is not compatible with high boiling point brake fluids ...
I know of (2) audi's (hongkong) having clutch cylinder leaks - with "blue" & (1) ttq (hongkong) w/clutch leak with "gold" - these cars are well maintained - w/low mileage - all (3) have clutch "squeaks" - I do not know of any audi's with factory oem brake fluid, having any clutch problems --- draw your own conclusions ...
I have contacted one of the brothers at mov'it & a friend in de regarding this matter ... I already know that mov'it will provide separate clutch reservoir, on customer request (when you purchase brake system) within europe ...
as I have written, I believe it is clutch seal compound issue - there are several seal suppliers & there appears to be at least (2) different clutch seal compounds in use - both are compatible with factory oem brake fluid - (1) seal compound is not compatible with high boiling point (reduced lubricity) brake fluid ...
if you are near a beck/arnley, I would check part no's of clutch seal kits for g4/vr6/a4/ttq to see if different & I would examine several to see whether SWF is on "rubber" mouldings ... I will check on latest audi part revisions ...


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## a2vwnick (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kwokTTQ)*

so on mk3 vr6's, are they having the same issue? or is this only effecting mk4 seals?


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (a2vwnick)*

I having a parts search run now - to determine whether same seals used in A3/A4 clutch hydraulics - also which spec seal compounds - this will take a little time ...


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kwokTTQ)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I having a parts search run now - to determine whether same seals used in A3/A4 clutch hydraulics - also which spec seal compounds - this will take a little time ...[HR][/HR]​You're awesome.


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (kwokTTQ)*

Wow, this is interesting. I guess I made the right choice by going with Motul, they specifically mention hydraulic-actuated brake and clutch systems compatibility.
http://www.motul.com/uk/produits/auto/frein/index.html 


[Modified by alexb75, 8:26 AM 4-17-2003]


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## revensonjr (Nov 6, 2000)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (alexb75)*

SON OF A....!!!! Last summer i flushed the brakes on my A4 and put in ATE Super Blue, now my clutch pedal squeaks and moans like crazy! I remember that they shared the same resivior but i din't bleed the clutch in any way. Could the fluid have mixed? Is this irreversible damage? How hard is it to replace the slave cylinder? Cost?


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## BikeBoy24 (Jun 10, 2001)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (revensonjr)*

I've had superblue in my car (mk4 1.8T) for 2 years now. ZERO problems.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (BikeBoy24)*

The squeaking in my clutch stopped once I flushed the blue out and put Valvoline SynthPower DOT 4 in. I had bene running ATE Super Blue for a year or so (25K+ miles). So, the squeaking seems to be reversible.


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## NOVAdub (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: ATE Super Blue ok? I read on AW that it causes problems in Audis.... (revensonjr)*

Yes the fluid mixed. Flush the whole system (brake and clutch) immediately with motul rbf 600 if you want a high temp fluid. I am not sure on the A4 if the slave is inside the trans or not. If so, youll have to drop it to get it out.


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