# H&R anti-roll bars: initial review



## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

Hey gang, haven't seen any reviews for H&R's arbs on a Haldex-Quattro A3, so here are my initial impressions:

*Quality* is very high: the finish is perfect and the bushings look solid. Packaging was neat & tidy too: should ship overseas without too much harm from the Men in Brown.
Notice the two holes for stiff/soft adjustment:
















*Installation* is straightforward for the rear: simply remove the old bar, reuse the saddle clamps and bolts (although Bentley calls for bolt replacement, and it's cheap insurance).
The front is trickier, as the subframe has to be dropped. VW-Audi have studs that can be placed to lower the frame without losing alignment, so if you're planning on doing this in your driveway, either get the studs or plan on an alignment job afterwards.
The front clamps are two parts each, and need to be seperated for removal. A die grinder comes in handy here. Once seperated, the two x two parts are placed on the new bar, and then onto the subframe.
Look closely, and you can see the two halves held together by a kind of rivnut. That needs drilling out.








*Handling* To be honest, I wasn't expecting much from these bars. I was just going to use them for their stiff rear / soft front adjustability. Well, Holy SH*T these things make a tremendous impact on how the car behaves!!!!!!!!!
It turns out the Audi mechanic installed both ends on their stiff setting, but before having him change anything I took it for a drive. Low and behold, the stiff front didn't yield the massive understeer I feared. Rather, a sharp turn of the wheel only resulted in my neck snapping sideways as the car lunged for the apex. Unreal!
Power-on before the apex gave OVERSTEER! I couldn't believe it (and still can't)!
Of course, roll is all but eliminated. The car just stays FLAT. But it's the fact that oversteer is much more present that keeps bringing a smile to my face. It's like getting the HPP all over again.

On bumpy roads, the reduced independance of each wheel is quite obvious, and comes with a very noticeable reduction in comfort.

That's all for now. I'll update this as I try Soft/Stiff and Soft/Soft.
By the way, I am using KWV3 coilovers set to quite stiff in the back. I also use a GenII HPP set on the default "sport" setting. So, *YMMV*.

In my book, these puppies get http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif That's it for now, I'm going for another drive










*UPDATE:* Set the front bar to Soft, rear bar still set to Hard.
To change the setting, I jacked the car up and put the entire front end on jack stands. removed both front wheels, undid one nut on each side, and replaced on the Soft setting hole. easy and relatively quick to do.

Passenger side on Soft:









Driver's side still on Hard:









I did NOT leave the bar on Hard-Soft! I put both ends on Soft. I don't know how the bar would react with one end on Hard and the other on Soft, _but perhaps that would simply yield an intermediary setting_???
Anyway, with the front on Soft and the rear on Hard, here's what I felt:

Turn-in has lost the extremely hard edge it had aquired with the front bar on Hard.
Accelerating hard out of roundabouts, I noticed an increase in front roll along with an increase of the inside front wheel's motive grip. And a litlle less throttle-on understeer.
Mid turn acceleration yields even more oversteer than with the bars on Hard/Hard.
Steady-throttle turns are less balanced, and the front/rear roll stifness discrepancy is very obvious.
The car can be flung into corners to get the rear out, and lift-throttle oversteer is FAR more pronounced.
Very high-speed sweepers aren't as steady, but aren't unsafe either. The front just isn't as "planted" as it is with both bars on "hard".
Steering effort is reduced. Like going from 3 to 5 with vag-com (for those that are pre-2007







)
For those running a rear bar only, I think adding a front bar will sadden some while making others happy: just how tail-happy do you want your car to be?
For me (and my specific damper settings) I'll be going back to Hard/Hard. I personally feel the car is more balanced that way; and while lift-throttle oversteer is fun, it just doesn't yield as much corner-exit speed as a balanced setup does. *YMMV*

I'll update again after trying Soft/Soft.
*UPDATE:*
Well, I haven't tried soft/soft with my coilovers, but since I took the V3s off for a rebuild, I thought I'd give you my impressions of the bars with OEM springs and dampers.
With respect to the V3s, they didn't _need_ a rebuild, as the damping was still very effective, but since KW have a new setup, I thought I'd give it a shot.
These are my V3s after 90,000 kilometers (55,000 miles or so):








You thought Frenchmen were dirty? You should see French roads!









The new setup consists of a linear-rate front spring with a helper spring for rebound, instead of a softer, progressive spring. Also, KW now have a camber adjustment solution. The race spring requires the front strut to be modified, along with the front sway bar endlink. Hence my sending the V3s back to KW's HQ in Fichtenberg. This "Race" setup will definitelt reduce ride comfort. By how much, I don't know yet.
Anyways, for now I put the original "Quattro GmbH S-Line" suspension back on. These are harder than "sport" springs, and they lower the car 25mm from standard or 10 from sport. The dampers are Sachs. I'm working on getting part numbers for a fellow texer, and I'll post them up when I finally figure it out.
Here's how it looks now:








I feel like I'm driving an SUV









So, what about the bars? Well, they work extremely well with OEM suspension. I've only had them on hard/hard, so cannot comment yet on other settings.
They also work harder than when I had the coilovers, as the OEM suspension allows more lean, which the bars fight effectively.
The bars on hard/hard reduce comfort more now that they are working harder, and a bump taken by the right wheel does upset its left counterpart. With the V3s, the reduced travel didn't let this become apparent.
With theOEM suspension, I feel I should be using soft/soft, or soft/hard.
Another strange ocurence is that ESP comes into play earlier. I ususally turn ESP off right after starting the car, but when I forget to do so and take a turn at very high speed, the foul device kicks in early.
I believe this is due to the fact that with the bars, the rear end comes around a lot more, and that with the OEM suspension being less planted ESP sees too much oversteer.
With ESP off, everything's back to normal and the car rotates easily and predictably, even through mid-turn bumps. 

Remember, your settings may be different, and we each have our own driving styles, so please do take all this with a healthy pinch of salt.
Cheers fellas























Edited for updates. 


_Modified by 3dr A3 3.2 at 2:25 AM 7-12-2007_


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## kirkb (May 19, 2004)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*

I completely agree, car is way fun to drive now. I got the f/r set shipped from germany over a month ago and I finally got around to installing the rear bar last weekend. I didn't have time to install the front yet, but I hope to this weekend. 
I've got FSDs with stock sport springs and the handling is absolutely superb now, can't wait to install the fronts after your review. There is a little difference going over rough roads but nothing I wouldn't expect from an ARB. I had a rear bar on my R32 and forgot how much of a difference it makes. 


_Modified by kirkb at 12:40 PM 6/5/2007_


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## eltonsi (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*

Good read Ben. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

Just curious as to where you guys bought the bars? Also, what would this do for my car if I'm sticking w/ stock suspension for now?


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## Presns3 (Mar 6, 2006)

awesomeeee..... i wonder if the stiff/stiff setting gives most a3s oversteer, or is that just because of ur specific kw suspension setting.


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (kirkb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kirkb* »_I completely agree, car is way fun to drive now. I got the f/r set shipped from germany over a month ago and I finally got around to installing the rear bar last weekend. I didn't have time to install the front yet, but I hope to this weekend. 
I've got FSDs with stock sport springs and the handling is absolutely superb now, can't wait to install the fronts after your review. There is a little difference going over rough roads but nothing I wouldn't expect from an ARB. I had a rear bar on my R32 and forgot how much of a difference it makes. 

_Modified by kirkb at 12:40 PM 6/5/2007_

What's your impression with only the rear bar installed? Differences from stock? I have V2's currently on. Thanks.


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: (Presns3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Presns3* »_awesomeeee..... i wonder if the stiff/stiff setting gives most a3s oversteer, or is that just because of ur specific kw suspension setting.



While my V3 settings were already extracting as much lift-off and throttle-on oversteer as possible (with the HPP's help), I'm pretty sure the stiff/stiff setting will yield something similar on FSDs or standard sport springs. Very tight turns (2nd gear) will probably give some throttle-on understeer, but fast sweepers should be neutral...
I look forward to trying soft/stiff and soft/soft and reporting back.
Also, I look forward to Kirkb installing his front bar, trying it out, and letting us know how it goes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

...............
Went for an extended drive last night in mountainous roads. These things make a profound impact on hadnling. It's on the same level as the coilovers and HPP. My neck and shoulders are sore from all the turns


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*

for now, i'm just running the 22mm rsb, but i've heard good things about changing the front (improved turn-in)... might have to consider this down the road


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## moogie (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_It turns out the Audi mechanic installed both ends on their stiff setting, but before having him change anything I took it for a drive. Low and behold, the stiff front didn't yield the massive understeer I feared. Rather, a sharp turn of the wheel only resulted in my neck snapping sideways as the car lunged for the apex. Unreal!

Very interesting Ben. I already have the H&R rear bar, and while it has helped a lot, I have been thinking for a while on adding the front bar as well. Hearing what it did for you, I think I'll just go ahead and get one







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

Do it do it do it ;-)
With your lighter engine up front, it should be great! Btw, which setting do you use on your rear bar?


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## angryrican66 (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*

they are ordered http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (angryrican66)*


_Quote, originally posted by *angryrican66* »_they are ordered http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Where from?


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## moogie (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_With your lighter engine up front, it should be great! Btw, which setting do you use on your rear bar?

Stiff. Haven't tried soft, but somehow I doubt it would be better. Then again, I didn't think the front sway, especially at stiff, would work as great as you described!


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## scotchy (Oct 2, 2005)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*

Ben...did you go with the thicker bars? 
For North America it seems everyone only carries the thinner bars (don't remember the specs)
The only people I've seen selling the thicker ones in North America is RPI equipped. H&R may now but they didn't used to list the thicker ones for the NA market.
Curious which you got.
When I talked to Warren @ RPI he said (IIRC) that the thicker bar at it's softest setting is stiffer than the thinner one at it's firmest.


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## wiredbeans (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (scotchy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scotchy* »_Ben...did you go with the thicker bars? 
For North America it seems everyone only carries the thinner bars (don't remember the specs)
The only people I've seen selling the thicker ones in North America is RPI equipped. H&R may now but they didn't used to list the thicker ones for the NA market.
Curious which you got.
When I talked to Warren @ RPI he said (IIRC) that the thicker bar at it's softest setting is stiffer than the thinner one at it's firmest.

Tirerack has them for $239 I believe


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## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*

Ben your write-ups are always well informed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it me or does it seem like people are forgetting that Ben has "Haldex Quattro" and the characteristics he is describing may not imply that our FWD cars will do the same. 
I don't think that anybody with FWD has reviewed the two bar upgrade, only the rear sway-bar. I could be wrong b/c someone in the MKV golf forum could have but I've never checked.


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

AFAIK, the H&R bar reviewed by Ben for the 3.2Q are not available in the US yet.


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## kirkb (May 19, 2004)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (yam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yam* »_
What's your impression with only the rear bar installed? Differences from stock? I have V2's currently on. Thanks.

Yam,
While I do have Koni FSDs which improved the handling a good bit (less lean and more responsive), the rear bar along with the FSDs makes the car feel much more neutral (as much as any 58/42 distributed car can) and corner almost completely flat. The car actually seems lighter than the pig it really is







much more lively too than before the bar. 

_Quote, originally posted by *krazyboi* »_Just curious as to where you guys bought the bars? Also, what would this do for my car if I'm sticking w/ stock suspension for now?

I still don't believe that anybody in NA carries the H&R bars for the 3.2 quattro. I got sick of waiting for them and just bought the front and rear kit (33220-1) from ebay.de with good results (cost me <500 incl shipping).


_Modified by kirkb at 10:56 PM 6/6/2007_


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## scotchy (Oct 2, 2005)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (wiredbeans)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wiredbeans* »_
Tirerack has them for $239 I believe

Tire Rack (and I think most places) sells the thicker front one but not the thicker rear one.
AFAIK the thicker rear one is the same part that is sold here for the GTI. It's supposed to be a direct fit for the A3. (2.0T...don't know about 3.2))


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (kirkb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kirkb* »_
Yam,
While I do have Koni FSDs which improved the handling a good bit (less lean and more responsive), the rear bar along with the FSDs makes the car feel much more neutral (as much as any 58/42 distributed car can) and corner almost completely flat. The car actually seems lighter than the pig it really is







much more lively too than before the bar. 
_Modified by kirkb at 10:56 PM 6/6/2007_

Thanks. 
I think I'll wait till they become available in the US. And, I'm not really interested in dropping the subframe to install the front bar. I'll probably go with the haldex controller next, and then a rear bar. Ben, do you think this combo (V2's, HPP, & thicker rear bar) would keep the A3 balanced?


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

Yam, I think Kirkb gave us the answer with his impressions of a rear-only install. I think your specific setup V2s HPP and rear only bar will make for a LOT less understeer.
With the V2s, if you feel you've gained too much oversteer after the rear-only bar install, then you can just firm up your front dampers to negate some of that...
I'll look up my H&R part number and post here.


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## angryrican66 (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_Yam, I think Kirkb gave us the answer with his impressions of a rear-only install. I think your specific setup V2s HPP and rear only bar will make for a LOT less understeer.
With the V2s, if you feel you've gained too much oversteer after the rear-only bar install, then you can just firm up your front dampers to negate some of that...
I'll look up my H&R part number and post here.
Yam, the Haldex Sport Controller will completely eliminate the understeer , the bars will just be the icing on the cake


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (kirkb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kirkb* »_
[...]
I still don't believe that anybody in NA carries the H&R bars for the 3.2 quattro. I got sick of waiting for them and just bought the front and rear kit (33220-1) from ebay.de with good results (cost me <500 incl shipping).


Just checked and that's the same part# I used: "33220-1, Audi A3 8P und Golf V R32 Nur 4wd"


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

Sounds good. I'll go with Gen2 controller next, and go from there.


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

Tried Soft/Hard and updated original post.


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## moogie (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_Tried Soft/Hard and updated original post.

Good stuff once again Ben! Your description of soft/hard sounds pretty much exactly like mine behaves with just the rear upgrade. Definitely sounds like I need to upgrade the front too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Btw, is it just me, or did you mix the soft/hard pics and their descriptions? Shouldn't the setting with the mount point closer to the bar (= shorter arm length) result in a harder setting?


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

Nope, not just you ;-) I fixed it, thanks for pointing it out.


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## rtc5250 (May 25, 2006)

Noob question...... Does the diameter makes a differences with smaller front than rear bars?


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## 200qandA3q (May 1, 2006)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_Hey gang, haven't seen any reviews for H&R's arbs on a Haldex-Quattro A3, so here are my initial impressions:

Ben,
Thanks for the very nice review--definitely it gets us quattro guys salivating about upgrading to a new ASB setup. 
What's your opinion about the worth of doing the H&R ASB mods (frt+rear) while staying with oem springs and shocks? 
I'm pretty adamant about maintaining my stock ride height (we're in deep snow country), hence other suspension mods (with lowering) have not seemed practical for me. The Koni FSD might be an option, though. My intent is just a quick and easy improvement in handling on the track (i.e., reduce understeer) while keeping the car reasonably comfortable for day-to-day driving. Seems like the ASB change is likely to help significantly, just by itself--do you agree? 
BTW, has anyone else in the US (besides kirkb) tried ordering from that german ebay vendor? I've emailed them about shipping costs but have not had a reply. I assume that paypal payment eliminates any "complication" with currency, etc. Strange that no distributor in the States has yet offered this item.
Phil


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: (rtc5250)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rtc5250* »_Noob question...... Does the diameter makes a differences with smaller front than rear bars? 

Yes.


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (200qandA3q)*


_Quote, originally posted by *200qandA3q* »_
Ben,
Thanks for the very nice review--definitely it gets us quattro guys salivating about upgrading to a new ASB setup. 
What's your opinion about the worth of doing the H&R ASB mods (frt+rear) while staying with oem springs and shocks? 
I'm pretty adamant about maintaining my stock ride height (we're in deep snow country), hence other suspension mods (with lowering) have not seemed practical for me. The Koni FSD might be an option, though. My intent is just a quick and easy improvement in handling on the track (i.e., reduce understeer) while keeping the car reasonably comfortable for day-to-day driving. Seems like the ASB change is likely to help significantly, just by itself--do you agree? 
BTW, has anyone else in the US (besides kirkb) tried ordering from that german ebay vendor? I've emailed them about shipping costs but have not had a reply. I assume that paypal payment eliminates any "complication" with currency, etc. Strange that no distributor in the States has yet offered this item.
Phil

The only person I can think of running OEM suspension and H&R bars is " theshadow " who runs a MkV R32 in Dubai. If you search the MkV R32 forum using his screen name you'll find his reviews. You can also im him: he's a swell fella...
IMO (and it's just an opinion) H&R bars, OEM springs and dampers (or fsds) would work nicely.


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## 200qandA3q (May 1, 2006)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_
Quote, originally posted by rtc5250 »
Noob question...... Does the diameter makes a differences with smaller front than rear bars?
Yes.

[warning: The following is idle speculation based on much assumption]
Ben,
Speaking of arb diameters--I've been crawlin' around under my A3 3.2 and found it interesting that the _oem_ front bar diameter seems actually a bit _larger_ than in the rear. According to my caliper measurement it's 22mm in front and 21mm in rear. Is that the same values as the oem arb diameters on your 3dr A3?
Anyway, given those numbers, I now note that the HSB diameters are 24mm and 26mm (frt and rear, respectively), so the HSB set has roll stiffness that will be about 1.37X greater for the _rear_ bar compared to the front (at equal settings). Wow, the HSB rear-bar will (at equal setting) create 71% _more_ rear roll resistance compared than the front-bar effect, which is obviously much different than the roll-coupling for the oem case (where the rear bar produces 17% _less_ than the bar up front). 
The point of all this is to explain why I'm led to speculate that the combination you haven't reported on yet (i.e., "soft/soft") might still be a useful one --insofar as creating a desirable amount of oversteer and while also reducing some of the undesired throttle-lift effect. 
Phil


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

Phil, you lost me. What's "HSB"? 
My OEM bars were 26mm and 26mm, but they were a special-order Quattro GmbH order item. The same option was avilable on Sportbacks too, and all ARB part numbers are shared between 3drs and SPBKs.
I'll try soft/soft soon: I'm not really liking soft front / hard rear, because the car feels unblalanced. It's very effective for lift-throttle oversteer, and does give the front wheels extra corner-exit grip, but to me it's a little too much.


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## 200qandA3q (May 1, 2006)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_Phil, you lost me. What's "HSB"? 


Hah, I meant to say "H&R" and obviously mangled that up pretty good. Sorry for the confusion. 

_Quote »_My OEM bars were 26mm and 26mm, but they were a special-order Quattro GmbH order item.

Ahhh, so your reference point (26/26) for evaluating the H&R upgrade is quite a bit different (stiffer) than we have in our US oem version of the A3 3.2. Obviously it's time for me to stop speculating and just order a set of H&R bars.









Phil


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

lol! Now I see what you were saying, and I have to agree with you.
I'll be sending my KW V3s back to the factory for refurbishment and their latest updates (the coilovers have 90,000 km on them, and KW are about to release a firmer linear-rate spring for the front, so mine will come back in that configuration), soooo, I'll be running OEM springs and dampers for a while. As soon as that happens, I'll update this thread again.


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## Sloth (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*

This thread has been an excellent read for the folks here down under in Oz that have A3 8P's - thanks heaps. My Haldex sport controller goes on next week to my 2.0TQ and to a friends 2.0TQ, his has KW V2's also fitted so we will post some feedback on this once completed.


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

Looking forward to it!
Will you be installing a switch for your GenII HPP?


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

*Re: (Sloth)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sloth* »_my 2.0TQ 

don't rub it in our faces!!!


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## cleanA3 (Jun 23, 2007)

do you a part # for this kit.


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_
Just checked and that's the same part# I used: "33220-1, Audi A3 8P und Golf V R32 Nur 4wd"


from page 1


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (200qandA3q)*


_Quote, originally posted by *200qandA3q* »_Anyway, given those numbers, I now note that the H&R diameters are 24mm and 26mm (frt and rear, respectively)


just curious... where did u get these #'s?
according to h&r, for the a3 they offer a 26 or 28 mm front, + a 22mm rear
it's the same for the gti, but there's also a 24mm rear


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## moogie (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*

Just had mine installed today http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Initial impressions are positive, the front bar further reduced the body roll from that which the rear bar already did. I'll probably have a chance to go tracking again in the next 1 to 2 weeks, looking forward to testing the new setup!


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_The front clamps are two parts each, and need to be seperated for removal. A die grinder comes in handy here. Once seperated, the two x two parts are placed on the new bar, and then onto the subframe.


afaik, for the us-spec bars, h&r provides new brackets (in addition to the bushings)


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (crazy88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazy88* »_

afaik, for the us-spec bars, h&r provides new brackets (in addition to the bushings)



Really? I'd love to see some pics of those.


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (moogie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *moogie* »_Just had mine installed today http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Initial impressions are positive, the front bar further reduced the body roll from that which the rear bar already did. I'll probably have a chance to go tracking again in the next 1 to 2 weeks, looking forward to testing the new setup!

Looking frorward to your observations http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Updated front page after trying OEM springs and dampers with the bars.


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_Really? I'd love to see some pics of those.











neuspeed also provides new brackets w/ their front bar


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: H&R anti-roll bars: initial review (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_I did NOT leave the bar on Hard-Soft! I put both ends on Soft. I don't know how the bar would react with one end on Hard and the other on Soft, _but perhaps that would simply yield an intermediary setting_???


yes... afaik, all the 2-hole bars have 3 settings + this is the middle one
i don't remember where i read it, but there was an explanation of how/why this works


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## 3dr A3 3.2 (Dec 28, 2004)

Thanks for the pic. Looks like those would work, even though the OEM ones can be reused.

When the car leans, it twists the bars by pushing and pulling on the endlinks. If you place the endlinks on the hole furthest forward, the car has more leverage on the bar.
Place the endlinks on the hole furthest back, the car has less leverage, and the bar acts as a stiffer one. (actually, it's seeing less force).
Place one endlink on the "hard" hole and one on the "soft", and you end up with an "intermediate" setting. I wouldn't try this as I would be uncomfortable with the unequal forces, but this is just a "feeling".

INITIAL POST UPDATED ;-)


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_Thanks for the pic. Looks like those would work, even though the OEM ones can be reused.


mike @ parts4vws told me that h&r sources these from the oem supplier


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## teryps2 (Jul 7, 2007)

anybody know where i can get HR sway bar for A3 3.2 ?
any shop has it in stock right now ?


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (crazy88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazy88* »_just curious... where did u get these #'s?
according to h&r, for the a3 they offer a 26 or 28 mm front, + a 22mm rear


to clarify... these are for the a3 2.0t
for the a3 3.2, 200qandA3q is correct... 24mm front + 26mm rear


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## crazy88 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (teryps2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teryps2* »_anybody know where i can get HR sway bar for A3 3.2 ?
any shop has it in stock right now ?


it doesn't seem like they're avail yet here... i checked parts4vws + ecstuning, + neither has the part #'s listed (which are on h&r's site)


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## moogie (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (3dr A3 3.2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3dr A3 3.2* »_Place one endlink on the "hard" hole and one on the "soft", and you end up with an "intermediate" setting. I wouldn't try this as I would be uncomfortable with the unequal forces, but this is just a "feeling".

I actually remember reading about this some time ago, and I believe it indeed is possible to use a mixed setting. My gut feeling also used to say that this would be a no-no, but after reading about it, it made more sense.
If I remember correctly, the theory behind this goes along the lines that the forces on the swaybar don't care about the length of just one side of the bar, but it's the combined length of both sides that make the difference. I don't have the mathematics at hand to prove this though


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## angryrican66 (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (moogie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *moogie* »_
I actually remember reading about this some time ago, and I believe it indeed is possible to use a mixed setting. My gut feeling also used to say that this would be a no-no, but after reading about it, it made more sense.
If I remember correctly, the theory behind this goes along the lines that the forces on the swaybar don't care about the length of just one side of the bar, but it's the combined length of both sides that make the difference. I don't have the mathematics at hand to prove this though









This theory doesn't hold water, but if one of you tries it let us know


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## Hesaputz (May 12, 2006)

*Re: (angryrican66)*

It works fine. Leverage = total bar length. There may be a small disparity due to friction in the bushings sending forces through the chassis, or travel differences between the hard and soft holes, but nothing you will be able to tell a difference in. We routinely do this as half bar steps on 911 racers.


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: (Hesaputz)*

Got the 25mm Neuspeed rear bar installed today. I set it to medium stiffness (front hole on one side, rear on the other side). Included parts are the bushings, small tube of sticky grease, and the bar. You'll need to reuse the bracket. Installation was very easy ~ 1hr, including the time to grease the bushings. I was very liberal and used the entire tube. Just put the rears on a ramp. No need to lower the exhaust or remove the wheels.
Initial opinion as follows. Wow, the bar has a huge improvement in feel. Very little roll, neutral feeling, and confidence inspiring. Only slightly stiffer, but acceptable (though borderline for my preference) I'm not sure if it was the sushi I had for breakfast, but this was the first time I actually gave myself carsick while driving. Will need more time behind the wheel before I lift throttle mid turn.
OEM rear bar is 21mm.


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## teryps2 (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re:*

any idea when are we getting H&R sway bars for the 3.2 ?


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

I gave up waiting... So far Neuspeed seems a good compromise if you do not intend to run a front bar.
H&R Front - 24mm
H&R Rear - 26mm
Neuspeed Rear - 25mm


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## 200qandA3q (May 1, 2006)

*Re: (yam)*

Yam,
Thanks for the update. 

_Quote, originally posted by *yam* »_Wow, the bar has a huge improvement in feel. Very little roll, neutral feeling, and confidence inspiring. Only slightly stiffer, but acceptable (though borderline for my preference) I'm not sure if it was the sushi I had for breakfast, but this was the first time I actually gave myself carsick while driving. Will need more time behind the wheel before I lift throttle mid turn.


Can we infer that using a full "soft" setting would probably still produce a noticeable handling improvement compared to the stock (21 mm) bar?
Phil


_Modified by 200qandA3q at 12:39 PM 12/17/2007_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (yam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yam* »_I gave up waiting... So far Neuspeed seems a good compromise if you do not intend to run a front bar.
H&R Front - 24mm
H&R Rear - 26mm
Neuspeed Rear - 25mm 

I simply wouldn't get H&R due to the issues with their bushings. I've had H&R, Neuspeed and now Hotchkis on my 2.0t. Dropping the front subframe is a pita and not something i'd want to have to do multiple times to replace H&R bushings.
Dave


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: (200qandA3q)*


_Quote, originally posted by *200qandA3q* »_Yam,
Thanks for the update. 

Can we infer that using a full "soft" setting would probably still produce a noticeable handling improvement compared to the stock (21 mm) bar?
Phil

_Modified by 200qandA3q at 12:39 PM 12/17/2007_

I am almost positive, you will be able to feel a difference. I can't say whether that will translate into a handling improvement. Even with the setting I have now, it definitely feels improved, but can't say without some type of quantitative measurement. I plan to try the full soft setting eventually.


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## kirkb (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
I simply wouldn't get H&R due to the issues with their bushings. I've had H&R, Neuspeed and now Hotchkis on my 2.0t. Dropping the front subframe is a pita and not something i'd want to have to do multiple times to replace H&R bushings.
Dave

What problems have you had with their bushings? I've had H&R bars on my last 3 cars including my A3 with no problems (at least that I knew about







). Should I be on the lookout for something? 


_Modified by kirkb at 4:38 PM 12/17/2007_


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (kirkb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kirkb* »_
What problems have you had with their bushings? I've had H&R bars on my last 3 cars including my A3 with no problems (at least that I knew about







). Should I be on the lookout for something? 

_Modified by kirkb at 4:38 PM 12/17/2007_

Their dry bushings tend to wear poorly. The poly/rubber that they use is of relatively low durometer. In a salty winter climate, the bushings will cause the bar to rust underneath. There have also been several reports of the bushings tearing with mild use. I took my bar off after 1 year and wasn't impressed with the bushings. Performance-wise, poly is an improvement but you need to keep them greased. Neuspeed's bushings have multiple tiny ridges to help keep the grease in the bushing. Hotchkis' bushing design is slightly different, as it has channels for the grease, but that is also due to the fact that the bushing brackets have zerk fittings to allow for easy regreasing without removal of the bar / bushing.
I was originally going to keep the neuspeed bar and thread a zerk into the bracket, until i looked at the bushing ridges again and realized that it wouldn't evenly distribute any grease i pumped in through the zerk.
Dave


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## bassbiker (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: (crew219)*

My H&R rear bar's driver side bushing is definitely wearing poorly after a year of usage. Noticeable tearing.
I've contacted H&R about it and they will not give out or let me pay for a replacement bushing.








I'm ready to try a different bar, myself.


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## yam (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Their dry bushings tend to wear poorly. The poly/rubber that they use is of relatively low durometer. In a salty winter climate, the bushings will cause the bar to rust underneath. There have also been several reports of the bushings tearing with mild use. I took my bar off after 1 year and wasn't impressed with the bushings. Performance-wise, poly is an improvement but you need to keep them greased. Neuspeed's bushings have multiple tiny ridges to help keep the grease in the bushing. Hotchkis' bushing design is slightly different, as it has channels for the grease, but that is also due to the fact that the bushing brackets have zerk fittings to allow for easy regreasing without removal of the bar / bushing.
I was originally going to keep the neuspeed bar and thread a zerk into the bracket, until i looked at the bushing ridges again and realized that it wouldn't evenly distribute any grease i pumped in through the zerk.
Dave

Theoretically, you can put a small slot normal to the grooves of the bushing so that you can install the zerk fitting. However, the grease provided is so thick, I doubt you could realistically get the grease in there.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (bassbiker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bassbiker* »_My H&R rear bar's driver side bushing is definitely wearing poorly after a year of usage. Noticeable tearing.
I've contacted H&R about it and they will not give out or let me pay for a replacement bushing.








I'm ready to try a different bar, myself. 

That's really unfortunate of H&R. Neuspeed sent me new bushings free of charge.
If you want to upgrade your H&R bushings, you can get generic bushings and brackets from Energy suspension that have the zerk fittings on them. They're pretty cheap IIRC. That way you also get rid of the stock sway brackets. 
I definitely preferred the Neuspeed 25mm over the H&R 22mm, and the full Hotchkis kit over the Neuspeed. Install was a PITA on the front bar though.
Dave


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