# GOLF MK 5 2.0L FSI Camshaft alignment problems - expert advice needed.



## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

2005 model “BLR” 2.0 Litre engine suffered bent valves following a water pump seizure at only 62,000 kms.
A number of valves were badly bent and 2 inlet rockers were broken (no doubt when the top of the pistons pushed the valves up and into the rockers). Only slight indentations on the top of 2 pistons and the cylinder bores looked good so we decided to REBUILD.
Cylinder head removed as per Haynes manual. When removing the head bolts, I noticed the side surfaces of the cut-outs in the camshafts were not properly synchronized. When the exhaust camshaft was positioned at TDC, the inlet cam was about 45 degrees off its correct position! Haynes manual states the cut-outs must both be vertical when motor at TDC and this logically allows for the head bolts to be removed (or installed) down under the camshafts.
Q1. Could this mean the cam chain jumped a few teeth when the damage was done? or
Q2. Could either gear at the end of the camshafts spin or slip slightly under the huge load when the water pump seized?
Cylinder head then rebuilt by Head Specialist. 2 rockers, 3 inlet valves and 8 exhaust valves replaced. 6 valve guides and 16 new valve stem seals installed.
When I picked the head up, I noticed the cut outs of the camshafts where still not perfectly lined up. The inlet camshaft seemed to be about 9 degrees advanced when the exhaust camshaft was at TDC. Although the VW camshaft clamp T10252 was not used, the head specialist assured me it was set up correctly and a local VW specialist swore by his work, so we installed the head.
Upon completing the rebuild, the car never seemed to idle or run smoothly at low revs or whilst reversing. It did however run great at speed. After about 6 short runs (less than about 30km in total) the yellow colored “Exhaust System Fault” light came on and remained on. A short time later one of the ignition coils failed. After many attempts to identify the exact problem and rectify same, another ignition coil failed. I’m “reliably informed” when the motor recognizes a fault like this one, it sparks on every stroke.
Q3. Could the “Exhaust System Fault” cause the ignition coil failures?
Diagnostic checks revealed:
Fault code 04928 – Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incorrect Correlation.
The camshaft position sensor (under the inlet camshaft) was changed with a new $75 VW one, new VW plugs installed and ignition coils were replaced, but it made absolutely no difference at all. Battery disconnected a number of times to reset the ECU but the same warning light would return after a few short drives.
Timing from crankshaft pulley to exhaust camshaft pulley was correct, so I removed the rocker cover and cam chain cover to check the alignment of the camshaft rear sprockets (timing between the 2 camshafts). This appears to be the problem. 19 teeth on the rear sprockets equates to about 19 degrees each tooth, but camshafts only about 9 degrees out of alignment which is about ½ a tooth??
Q.4 Could the adjustable intake camshaft be locked in the advanced (intake) position and would this explain the 9 degree (or so) advanced intake camshaft position?
Q.5 If either of the rear camshaft sprockets has shifted or if the assembly on the end of the exhaust camshaft is locked in the advanced (intake) position, How do I fix it??
Apologies for no photos, but I couldn't work out how to load them.
Thanks,
Mark


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## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: (HPR)*

Moved to 2.0T FSI Engine Forum.


_Modified by MarcusB at 11:43 AM 10-5-2009_


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

*Re: (MarcusB) re-aline cams*

hi, 
on these FSI motors you MUST be SPOT ON with the CAM TIMMING!!! re -aline both cams with the timming chain removed so that the locking tool fits perfectly. tool in place hold/lock the cams in situ,( make sure the crank is on its mark (TDC).) once you have done this and are happy that the CRANK TO CAM. TO INLET CAM TO EXHAUST CAM TIMMING IS SPOT ON,then install timming chain and tensioner.(install both new if you havent already) once your happy with that remove cam locking tool refit cam case,then give 2 full revolutions on CRANK re-aline CRANK to TDC,then check cams are in position for locking tool again,they will be if you done it right.if not repeat from above until it is. once you have,re check torque settings,put her back together again fire her up and all will sound lovely and tight.road test and all your electric management lights should cancell them selves out,if not after road test have all codes re-set and off you go. no need to change any sensors coilpacks unless you know they are damaged!!! MISS ALINED CAMSHAFT TIMMING WILL UPSET THE OPERATION OF ALL ELECTRICAL FUEL/COIL/SPARK/AIR UNITS. unless CRANK to CAM to INLET CAM TO EXHAUST CAM are correctly on thier marks. i know this will help your current problem.
QUATTRO IT!!!


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## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: (MarcusB) re-aline cams (Quattro it)*

Thankyou so much for the reply, I was starting to think I was the only one in the world to have this problem!
I haven't been able to buy the alignment tool (T10252) in Australia, but I'll try overseas. If not, I should be able to engineer one up. I didn't replace the chain and adjuster due to the low mileage and the fact they still looked great, but perhaps I need to.
A couple of questions:
The cam chain does not have a link, so I'm assuming your suggesting once the cams are locked in their correct alignment, I'll have to remove the variable timing assembly from the end of the exhaust cam to allow installation of the chain?
Or could I put a link in the chain for ease of removal/installation?
One thing still in the back of my mind, is could the gear on the end of the inlet cam have spun slightly on the inlet cam? This would explain the timing between the 2 cams being out so much (about 45 degrees) upon disassembly as well as why I just can't seem to align them now.
Thanks again for your help,
Mark


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

hi are you there


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it) chain ?*

ok firstly your cams bieng out of sync is due to lack of tension and or a possible stretched chain through poss contact of piston to valve...second DO NOT SPLIT NEW CHAIN remove the vairiable( make CLEAR identification MARKS on IT as well another on the cam in relation to the position it sit on it. dont do short cuts... ok if you cant allocate the tool have an accompliss 2 MOLE GRIPS and grip the cams at equal points and put chok or wedge between them so you can line up the head bolts with the sockets.


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it) cam variable*

by the way its unlikely that it has spun the vaiable unit cause it slots into and locks into place on to the rear of the cam once you rebuild it








any probs let me know.


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## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it) cam variable (Quattro it)*

Thanks again.
Adjuster is one of the automatic ones (ie no adjustment), but you may be spot on with the cam chain stretching so I'll get a new one.
I've had the variable timing assembly off to check it and all looks good. I saw how it can't move unless it breaks the "gudgeon pin", which it hasn't.
When I asked about the cam gear, I meant the one on the end of the Intake cam. It looks like it is pressed on during manufacture so I thought it may have slipped. Unlikely, I suppose, but just thought I'd check prior to buying chain & adjuster??
Mark


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

that is the cam for the hpfp which is the part of the manufacture of the cam! IMPORTANT check to see if the high parts of the lob are FLAT or have any kind of indentation cause they WILL cause you problems in the engine managment controll sys for the high pressure fule monitoring,


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it) adjuster*

the hydrolic tensioner works off oil pressure,how ever inside it is a high tensioned spring which can weaken causin miss timming in lower RPM range it may not be the case but its advisable to replace it same as the chain.


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## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it) adjuster (Quattro it)*

Just got a quote from VW and ordered the parts.
If you're interested, $150 for the tool, $158 for the chain and $245 for the automatic tensioner. 
Here's hoping!!
Cheers & beers.
Mark


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

*Re: (MarcusB)*

there is no hope thats all facts i told you. expensive were you are, but we cant do much about that.... VW AUDI groups in my oppinion NEED TO GET THIS SORTED cause its becommin quiet common. HPFP ect by the way also check the HPFP cam follower for wear and tear too. the little cup shaped steel follower.I KNOW YOUR PROBS WILL BE SORTED CAUSE MINE ARE.


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## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it)*

I'll update when its done.
Hopefully it will be a happy







ending.


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

*Re: (MarcusB)*

look 4ward to it. have a pleasent day/nite that is. here in UK its now 1030pm i got early start so if anythin els im here till midd-nite uk time that is.


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## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it)*

9.30am over here so I can get the engine ready for the parts but they'll probably take 2 days to arrive. I'll try to update within the week.


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

*Re: (MarcusB)*

ok ill keep tabs on the link,till then have a nice day


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## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it)*

Well the parts arrived and I removed the old ones. Holding the new chain up against the old one and comparing the tension on the tensioners didn't seem to show up any abnormalities, but I got it all assembled today with the new timing chain and chain tensioner.
I had a mate assist to ensure it was at TDC with both sides of the cut outs in the cam shafts perfectly vertical - as recommended.
I turned the motor manually through 2 full revolutions (720 degrees), set it to TDC and once again the inlet camshaft is just slightly out of timing with the exhaust camshaft. I'd estimate the inlet is about 4 degrees retarded of where it should be.
I've decided to leave it and have a beer while I ponder the next step!!


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

*Re: (MarcusB) dont panick!*

hi marcus, the variable timming needs this 2-4 degrees to advance/retard the timming automatically, baisically the play tollerance is is automatically brought to sequence under load of starting and running of engine.as long as you prior to the 720 degrees rotation alined all marks with locking tool in place it is fine. remember you were out by 9 degrees which is too much for the variable timming to cope with,now its back to the tollerances it will cope with(4).as long as you got good compression within the 720 degrees rotation your motor will be happy with this.mine is, during my road test ,and a few miles down the road once the car was up to temp the eml ect all cleared them selves once the ignition was switched off/on during the 25 mile road test i did.(on/off meaning i drove 25mls then parked up switched off engine,had a *** then continued back home,it was then the eml lights went off.







)so just recheck to make your self clear that all is lined up then (make sure spark plugs are in should they not be!!)(compression takes up the slack)then turn crank 360 degrees (1 turn) recheck aline ment and all should be correct. put her together fire her up let her warm up on tick over check for leaks, at this point you should have no leaks,then clean your self up and road test her and you will have a big smile







all done. dont rev the hell out of it until (20 odd miles)look forward to your response .


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## Bug_racer (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: (MarcusB) dont panick! (Quattro it)*

Dont go off the factory markings , Ive had 2 cars so far where the timing belt markings have been incorrect !


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

happy new year people !!!!!
well according to the post he is 100% about the crank to cam timming,how ever it did cross my mind it could be out,but he says he had a 2nd opinnion that the marks were correct.i had very slight sync with cams to crank marks after the 2 turns of crank,car is still running brill,. he should start again from the crank to cam then cam to cam.
for peace of mind,.
re do and re rotate and re check all marks.


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## Quattro it (Dec 6, 2009)

martin, just for you. i had a costumer with A AUDI 2.0FSI,come to me with a noisey hpfp and a failed chain tensioner. rattled like **** any way recap here for you now.
STEP 1= i alined the crank pully to the tdc mark on the block.
STEP 2= i then rechecked the exhaust cam(timming belt end) cam position timming mark to the OT mark on the cover.
STEP 3= i then visually looked at the INLET cam cyl 4 LOBE position closest to the timming chain end. the last cam cap has a triangular shape mark on it,to which the cam LOBE sits at 10 o,clock position.(the exhaust cam also has this mark on the cam cap timming chain end)
at this point the exhaust cam LOBE (timming chain chain end) will be at the 2 o,clock position. this means that all timming marks tally correctly. (you already know that i know)
comming to your problem, re lock the cams with the tool you bought.
now remove the variator from the cam by un bolting it off the cam via the CENTER TORX BIT .
OK now clean cloth wipe vairiator dry, remove the 5 torx screws then remove the face of the vairiator,carefully inside there will be a nylon type washer around 5mm in size.
there will also be a small spring so make sure you dont loose it.
at this point you will see a star shaped cross with a hole in one of its vairiator pointers,within that will be the oil pressure fed advance/retard minni piston which locks and unlocks through oil pressure.
this unit should all lock up in one position otherwise the timming will loose its sync!
i think that this is your problem!!!!
make note of markings internally of the vairiator re clean re assemble the variator.
refit to cam while fitting the chain,remember variator LOCKS on to cam via the locating pin.
ok now all marks are in situation along with vairiator(remove cam tool and re bolt cam box cover so cams sitting nicely)
re adjust the timming belt accordingly, then give it 2 full turns manualy via the crank.
I AM NOW TELLING YOU THAT YOUR ENGINE IS ABSOLUTLY SPOT ON!!!!!!! 
THIS NOW THE SECOND 2.0FSI I HAVE DONE AND JUST FOR YOU I HAVE HOPEFULLY GIVIN YOU MORE INFO TO START YOURS UP.
(just a reminder to confirm eml lights ect ... as long as the timming is correct all lights will cancell them selfs through a road test)
its a long beer that you havin!!!!


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## MarcusB (Oct 5, 2009)

*Re: (Quattro it)*

Thanks again (& sorry for the delay responding).
I checked and rechecked the timing between the 2 cams and although I couldn't get them spot on, I decided (as you suggested) the 4 degrees out was a hell of a lot better than what I had, so I put it all back together to give it a run.
130kms traveled now (about 80 miles) with several stops and starts and no engine or other warning lights have returned!! I'm hopeful we may have finally cured the problem. If so, it would appear that your suggestion about the stretched cam chain was spot on and I thank you again for your help.
I'll get an engine diagnostic test done next week, clear any old codes and make sure all is good to confirm the repair.
Mark


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## ncaine6 (Dec 11, 2013)

Quattro it said:


> martin, just for you. i had a costumer with A AUDI 2.0FSI,come to me with a noisey hpfp and a failed chain tensioner. rattled like **** any way recap here for you now.<br>STEP 1= i alined the crank pully to the tdc mark on the block.<p>STEP 2= i then rechecked the exhaust cam(timming belt end) cam position timming mark to the OT mark on the cover.<p>STEP 3= i then visually looked at the INLET cam cyl 4 LOBE position closest to the timming chain end. the last cam cap has a triangular shape mark on it,to which the cam LOBE sits at 10 o,clock position.(the exhaust cam also has this mark on the cam cap timming chain end)<br>at this point the exhaust cam LOBE (timming chain chain end) will be at the 2 o,clock position. this means that all timming marks tally correctly. (you already know that i know)<p>comming to your problem, re lock the cams with the tool you bought.<p>now remove the variator from the cam by un bolting it off the cam via the CENTER TORX BIT .<p>OK now clean cloth wipe vairiator dry, remove the 5 torx screws then remove the face of the vairiator,carefully inside there will be a nylon type washer around 5mm in size.<p>there will also be a small spring so make sure you dont loose it.<p>at this point you will see a star shaped cross with a hole in one of its vairiator pointers,within that will be the oil pressure fed advance/retard minni piston which locks and unlocks through oil pressure.<br>this unit should all lock up in one position otherwise the timming will loose its sync!<p>i think that this is your problem!!!!<p>make note of markings internally of the vairiator re clean re assemble the variator.<p>refit to cam while fitting the chain,remember variator LOCKS on to cam via the locating pin.<p>ok now all marks are in situation along with vairiator(remove cam tool and re bolt cam box cover so cams sitting nicely)<p>re adjust the timming belt accordingly, then give it 2 full turns manualy via the crank.<p>I AM NOW TELLING YOU THAT YOUR ENGINE IS ABSOLUTLY SPOT ON!!!!!!! <p>THIS NOW THE SECOND 2.0FSI I HAVE DONE AND JUST FOR YOU I HAVE HOPEFULLY GIVIN YOU MORE INFO TO START YOURS UP.<p>(just a reminder to confirm eml lights ect ... as long as the timming is correct all lights will cancell them selfs through a road test)<br> its a long beer that you havin!!!!


I have an 06 Audi A4 in the shop right now and I think the issue described here is something we are running into. I know this was explained a long time ago but are there any other experts that can elaborate or even provide pics as to what is being explained here? I'm confused about the part where we are taking apart the variator. Should the variator be locked in a certain positoin? How can I tell if my variator is in the correct position?


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## 110110 (Feb 10, 2014)

*finally!*



ncaine6 said:


> I have an 06 Audi A4 in the shop right now and I think the issue described here is something we are running into. I know this was explained a long time ago but are there any other experts that can elaborate or even provide pics as to what is being explained here? I'm confused about the part where we are taking apart the variator. Should the variator be locked in a certain positoin? How can I tell if my variator is in the correct position?



i have had this problem for months and spent a fortune on garages trying to fix. i think i have the same problem as i keep getting camshaft retarded. no one seems to know what to do! just hoping the next chap is going to sort it. i had the cambelt replaced but he didnt use lock tools. so the new chap thinks its something to do with the chain? if not, im totally done with this car! 2.0 gt fsi 05


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## 110110 (Feb 10, 2014)

Quattro it said:


> hi, <br>on these FSI motors you MUST be SPOT ON with the CAM TIMMING!!! re -aline both cams with the timming chain removed so that the locking tool fits perfectly. tool in place hold/lock the cams in situ,( make sure the crank is on its mark (TDC).) once you have done this and are happy that the CRANK TO CAM. TO INLET CAM TO EXHAUST CAM TIMMING IS SPOT ON,then install timming chain and tensioner.(install both new if you havent already) once your happy with that remove cam locking tool refit cam case,then give 2 full revolutions on CRANK re-aline CRANK to TDC,then check cams are in position for locking tool again,they will be if you done it right.if not repeat from above until it is. once you have,re check torque settings,put her back together again fire her up and all will sound lovely and tight.road test and all your electric management lights should cancell them selves out,if not after road test have all codes re-set and off you go. no need to change any sensors coilpacks unless you know they are damaged!!! MISS ALINED CAMSHAFT TIMMING WILL UPSET THE OPERATION OF ALL ELECTRICAL FUEL/COIL/SPARK/AIR UNITS. unless CRANK to CAM to INLET CAM TO EXHAUST CAM are correctly on thier marks. i know this will help your current problem.<br>QUATTRO IT!!!<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/cool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/cool.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/cool.gif" BORDER="0">


i have had this problem for months and spent a fortune on garages trying to fix. i think i have the same problem as i keep getting camshaft retarded. no one seems to know what to do! just hoping the next chap is going to sort it. i had the cambelt replaced but he didnt use lock tools. so the new chap thinks its something to do with the chain? if not, im totally done with this car! 2.0 gt fsi 05


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