# Question for C2 Motorsports...



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

Is is true ya'll are making Stage3 software, or in the works for it? Something like 4 inch MAF and #63 injectors? Would love to have the extra room for more boost.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_Is is true ya'll are making Stage3 software, or in the works for it? Something like 4 inch MAF and #63 injectors? Would love to have the extra room for more boost.

i believe they have that setup now for the mk4 12v.


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (TBT-Syncro)*

Jeff will do the custom burn for you to run 63#r's However it isn't a kit yet. Talk to TekstepVR6, he has that setup. 4" MAF housing comes with Stg II.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (FMF)*

I'd be interested in a 63# tune as well... Would there be a downside to going with 63# instead of 42# with relation to driveability? It seems like as long as the tune is straight (which I'm sure it would be), if my ultimate goals surpase 39x whp, it would be a good idea to just go 63#.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Soupuh)*

630's actually have BETTER driveability than the 440's.
630 software: 
Mk4 12v: available by request.
Mk4 24v: in process.
Mk3 VR6: custom tune only.
Mk3 8V: Custom tune only. (I have a 750cc project this year)
Practically speaking, the 4" MAF is the largest housing that
the ~stock MAF sensor can fit into, this limits measureable total flow.
There are possibliities to go further, but these won't ever be 
sold in 'kit' form.

-Jeff


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*

Is it true that the tune is also $1000......


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## ShaggyVR6 (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (VR6T 20 PSI)*

i love my 630's car runs way diff then the 440s i would recamend anyone in a mk4 with a turbo go get the injectors and get it flashed way worth it. Won't be disapointed


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## bergenvr6 (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (ShaggyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggyVR6* »_i love my 630's car runs way diff then the 440s i would recamend anyone in a mk4 with a turbo go get the injectors and get it flashed way worth it. Won't be disapointed

your car is definitely sleeper ... nice work!!
thinking of going with a custom tune myself ... vf s2 and i've got dsr 256s sitting in my basement ... hmm ...


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_Is it true that the tune is also $1000......

good question....my Stg II software was $600 including the MAF housing so damn if it's $1000, won't be able to ever upgrade to that.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (FMF)*

630 mk4 12v: not a drop in tune....
It is optimized for each individual set-up.
-Jeff


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*

Guess I'd better finalize my setup then. I need to switch to a larger turbine housing and shortly I'll be using water/meth injection. I'd love to upgrade to a more "driveable" tune but that's one price I can't reach any time soon.
But, Jeff, I will be overnighting my Stg II ECU to you guys for the update, in the ESD bag that I used before with an overnight return package included, next Monday so you should receive it on Tuesday.
Would I be able to get an address from you via PM? I forget what it was...I may have it in my records somewhere, though.


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_630's actually have BETTER driveability than the 440's.
630 software: 
Mk4 12v: available by request.
Mk4 24v: in process.
Mk3 VR6: custom tune only.
Mk3 8V: Custom tune only. (I have a 750cc project this year)
Practically speaking, the 4" MAF is the largest housing that
the ~stock MAF sensor can fit into, this limits measureable total flow.
There are possibliities to go further, but these won't ever be 
sold in 'kit' form.

-Jeff



Jeff, i don't see the "OBD1 Dizzy" option here........








i don't expect to either, i am just bustin your stones. 
so, the 390 WHP mark with the 440's: is it possible with the kinetic turbo? i seam to be getting conflicting answers. 
would the larger injectors only work with standalone on a dizzy car?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*

With the 60# tune it should provide you with enough fuel to make around 550 whp which should more then meet the needs of any street driven vrt.


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## poopooplatter (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_Is is true ya'll are making Stage3 software, or in the works for it? Something like 4 inch MAF and #63 injectors? Would love to have the extra room for more boost.

I got a 4" maf with my stage 1 set up......????????


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (poopooplatter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *poopooplatter* »_
I got a 4" maf with my stage 1 set up......????????

You have a VR. I have an ABA

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_630's actually have BETTER driveability than the 440's.
630 software: 
Mk4 12v: available by request.
Mk4 24v: in process.
Mk3 VR6: custom tune only.
Mk3 8V: Custom tune only. (I have a 750cc project this year)
Practically speaking, the 4" MAF is the largest housing that
the ~stock MAF sensor can fit into, this limits measureable total flow.
There are possibliities to go further, but these won't ever be 
sold in 'kit' form.

-Jeff




What would you reccomend for a ABA 8vT setup with goals greater than 300whp?


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (poopooplatter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *poopooplatter* »_
I got a 4" maf with my stage 1 set up......????????

that is cool. i wish i went right to the 4" instead of doing things twice. 
but the VR does not come "standard" per se with a 4" MAF housing on the Stage 1 tune.


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_Is it true that the tune is also $1000......

i talked to him and was quoted 800 for tuning not including renting the dyno out. so im guessing close to 1200+ dollars. i cant fathom spending that much tuning a factory ecu.


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (vr6chris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6chris* »_
i talked to him and was quoted 800 for tuning not including renting the dyno out. so im guessing close to 1200+ dollars. i cant fathom spending that much tuning a factory ecu.

you'd spend that much on a standalone, anyway. I'd think it would be easier to have Jeff tune it for you rather than fuggin with it yourself...but I'm a lazy [email protected]


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (FMF)*

i think 1000 bucks could be very well worth a custom tune as it will allow the car to run with consistancy. 
i have seen too many guys go standalone, and their car changes it's behaviors from day to day. the chip tuned cars always seem to be consistant. i suppose the sensors and "thought process" of the factory ECU are capable of adapting differently to things. where as the standalone is set parameters. 
kinda like "fuzzy logic" vs. just plain logic in a cpu(i think that's what it's called)
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ShaggyVR6 (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (FMF)*

thats for a custom tune mk3 
the mk4 guys don;t need a custom tune as he lissed


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggyVR6* »_thats for a custom tune mk3 
the mk4 guys don;t need a custom tune as he lissed

As per Jeff:

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_630 mk4 12v: not a drop in tune....
It is optimized for each individual set-up.
-Jeff

^^^he said it was individually tailored to the setup


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (vr6chris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6chris* »_
i cant fathom spending that much tuning a factory ecu.

This is where there is a disconnect... (you're not the only one with this opinion)
You seem to think tuning should cost less if the 
factory ecu is used over standalone. Its possible you don't think
custom tuning on ANY ecu should cost so much.
On a standalone ecu: ALL the functions you need tune the car are
given to the tuner. On the factory ecu I have to FIND all the functions
then tune the car. 
Food for thought:
Some folks think nothing of paying ~$1500-$2k on engine work, for labor only. If I put forth an equal effort, how is my effort worth less?
I am the last guy to touch car after its ALL built, I can destroy
all of it in ~minutes. Should tuning go to the lowest bidder?
Suffice it to say.... We can likely cook up any software you want
for your project. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

-Jeff

Some content removed.....


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 9:25 PM 1-31-2007_


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## vrdubn995 (Jan 13, 2006)

let me see if i have this right. Im running440's for my VRT, does that mean i cant expect more then 390whp?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (vrdubn995)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vrdubn995* »_let me see if i have this right. Im running440's for my VRT, does that mean i cant expect more then 390whp?

Sure it has been done before but it depends on your setup.


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
Sure it has been done before but it depends on your setup.

I'm hoping to push that boundary shortly...but that 630 tune is so darn tempting.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
Suffice it to say.... We can likely cook up any software you want
for your project. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

-Jeff


I want bubbles to come out of my exhaust when i shift, cook me up something.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

Well I have a custom DYNO tune in my camaro only cost $450.00. And that wasnt just a mailed flash. It was tuned on the dyno.and you can go around 850 whp with the stock ECU.With a 4 inch meter you are pretty much maxing it around 500whp. I guess you could use a maf extender but that would require ,I would think, being tuned on the dyno. I wouldnt mind keeping the stock ECU in my GTI If I could get a tune that would be good for around 600-650whp. I am all about keeping stock ECU's in cars, they adapt and drive so much better in my opinion than standalone.I will not go to standalone in my camaro until I break 800whp. I just think 1000 for a car not being tuned on the dyno is insane. And the fact that it is so much is what pisses me off about owning my VW it is to damn expensive to make a lot of power.

_Modified by VR6T 20 PSI at 11:02 PM 1-31-2007_


_Modified by VR6T 20 PSI at 11:04 PM 1-31-2007_


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*

^^^I think it's sooo much cheaper and easier to make 500whp on a V8 than it is to make 400whp on our VR6s. That displacment and two extra cylinders does wonders for power.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

Im talking about the tuning point of it ass........... And if you know what your doing 400 whp can be made with very little effort on a VR6. If you know what you are doing...


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
Sure it has been done before but it depends on your setup.

440 Injectors reach 100% load @ ~20psi
I am running 440 injectors @ 17psi with plans to hit ~20psi+, it can be done but do you want yer injectors to run 100% load or upgrade to next size bigger and run at 70%
For the guys that said it runs better with the 630cc Injectors, care to elaborate? Does it accelerate smoother or something?


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_Im talking about the tuning point of it ass........... And if you know what your doing 400 whp can be made with very little effort on a VR6. If you know what you are doing...

no need to bust out the "A" word. I was just saying these new V8s make power much easier than our VR6. Maybe the little







guy made it seem like I was being rude. No rudeness intended.
And by little effort do you mean just dropping in a turbo and some software? It is easy to do since Jeff went through the trouble to give us great software. I just added a HG spacer, 42# injectors a T04 60-1 and I'm sure I'm hitting 400whp in this wonderfully cool weather. It's definitely no feat, anymore.


_Modified by FMF at 7:05 PM 1-31-2007_


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

I run the 630 tune... 
I really can't say enough good things about the tune as a whole. Jeff has pretty much mastered every aspect of the ECU and can do things that are incredible. I don't know the technical aspect of it- however I can tell you that the car is smooth enough to drive 60+ miles *daily* at 21-22psi with no hiccups at all. 
With the throttle body control Jeff has in the tune the turbo spool is nothing short of amazing. My car went from being a little on the lazy side- to making full boost 900rpm earlier. 
I do have more to say about the tune when I get home from work.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

Easier and less money without jeff.... I would love to have 60lb injectors in my car with the stock ECU and make around 600whp, but i will never give anyone 1000 to send me my ECU back with a file. People like that are why you never see high hp reliable VW's. Wish I could get my hands on the software you use or made not sure if it's something you did yourself or bought.


_Modified by VR6T 20 PSI at 2:55 AM 2-1-2007_


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_ hello, my name is Mr Negative


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_ Wish I could get my hands on the software you use or made not sure if it's something you did yourself or bought.

_Modified by VR6T 20 PSI at 2:55 AM 2-1-2007_

You can.
Here you go:
http://www.evc.de
http://www.dimsport.com
I made my own. 
When you figure out how to do it let us know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
-Jeff


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
You can.
Here you go:
http://www.evc.de
http://www.dimsport.com
I made my own. 
When you figure out how to do it let us know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
-Jeff 

Those look like fun. Bet you paid a pretty penny tho.


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## BLKBOX (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
You can.
Here you go:
http://www.evc.de
http://www.dimsport.com
I made my own. 
When you figure out how to do it let us know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
-Jeff 

^^^that sh!!t is why i pay you the big bucks, Jeff. Forget what I said earlier. You deserve every bit of that $600 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (FMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dreadlocks* »_440 Injectors reach 100% load @ ~20psi

I was at 88% duty cycle @ 20 psi on the 440's (410whp)
People will have different opinions about what a custom tune should cost but when compared with other companies Jeff's tune is a steal. Go check out what EIP is charging for their Stage 1 and Stage 2 "canned" R32 turbo software.


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

to speak on the money...
This isn't a tune you are going to put on your Kinetic Stage 1 kit. If you are looking at this tune as an option, you have already probably dumped 8,000+ into a turbo setup alone. Just to pick out an arbitrary number I'll say 1000 (I have no idea what Jeff is going to charge you). But do you think 1000 bucks is a lot to get your 8-10k setup running perfectly? I think not. The tune will make or break the car and Jeff *will not* deliver the car unless he is satisfied with the outcome. 
If anyone took a ride in either my car, Brian's (tekstepvr6) or Jon's car (shaggyvr6) you would quickly see that the tune is worth every penny and then some. If anyone is in my area- is seriously interested - I truly interested in the setup I truly wouldn't mind giving you a ride. This tune has that much of my confidence.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

$1000 is more then fair for a custom tune, unless you want to stare at a bunch of binary and hex and stuff and try to read it as a fuel map. 
I'll leave that for Jeff








Tuning stock ecu is a million times harder then tuning standalone, or already sorted out for you by somebody else - stock ecu (hondata, etc). Of course it costs more! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lenko62 (Sep 29, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_to speak on the money...
This isn't a tune you are going to put on your Kinetic Stage 1 kit. If you are looking at this tune as an option, you have already probably dumped 8,000+ into a turbo setup alone. Just to pick out an arbitrary number I'll say 1000 (I have no idea what Jeff is going to charge you). But do you think 1000 bucks is a lot to get your 8-10k setup running perfectly? I think not. The tune will make or break the car and Jeff *will not* deliver the car unless he is satisfied with the outcome. 

I have far less than 8000 in my turbo set up...prolly not even half that!
so if you guys already have this 630 tune...whats so custom about it...(before the flamefest...i ask cause i dont know)


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (lenko62)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lenko62* »_I have far less than 8000 in my turbo set up...prolly not even half that!
so if you guys already have this 630 tune...whats so custom about it...(before the flamefest...i ask cause i dont know)

I just added up parts alone...(no labor) and I was over 7k... My point was - that if you already dumped thousands into your setups (4k-7k, whatever! ) Spending 1000 on the most essential part of the setup doesn't seem unreasonable. 
What is custom? 
Everything from fueling to TB control to startup...
Jeff can probably answer this better though. 

btw...here is a picture of my setup w/ 630 tune- you can see the little slim guys right in there. 












_Modified by herbehop at 9:04 AM 2-1-2007_


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## rickyrunamuk (Sep 13, 2004)

Guys this sounds like just the thread to jump into to have my question answered. I have a Kinetics stage vr6, obd stage 1 kit which includes both the chip and piggyback as well as a head spacer 8-5,green tops and air to air ic. On the initial tune with the stage one using the original red injecters, whp was limited to 261 and turning up the boost did nothing, having been following vortex and asking ouestions it seems to me that the problem is the stock maf. Last time i talked to Shawn about this time last year ,he seemed to think that the ic was to small and was the cause of the restriction, My question is , Dear Vortexers ,if i go to a 4 inch maf, 3 inch exhaust and air water ic, what kind of potential will there be on that vr6-obd 1, and how involved is it in tweaking the tune, will we have to start from scratch or is ther a foundation allready in place to work from?


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

I have prolly around $4-5000 in mine after all the little bull****....


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_but i will never give anyone 1000 to send me my ECU back with a file. People like that are why you never see high hp reliable VW's.

People like that ARE why you have been seeing more and more VRTs.
You see that this file is so easy to code? then go ahead, be my guest and do it on your own.
Software engineering is no easy job, believe me....and the end product is....it's just a file. Oh yeah, Windows and Linux are a bunch of files too.
Some programmers charge for every single line of code they write. Don't underestimate this type of work.


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## poopooplatter (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (mikemcnair)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikemcnair* »_
that is cool. i wish i went right to the 4" instead of doing things twice. 
but the VR does not come "standard" per se with a 4" MAF housing on the Stage 1 tune. 

Then they sent it to me by mistake


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (poopooplatter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *poopooplatter* »_
Then they sent it to me by mistake

some guys have all the luck.


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## poopooplatter (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (mikemcnair)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikemcnair* »_
some guys have all the luck.









Maybe thats why my car never seems to run right. My MAF may be too big for the injectors and program for stage 1. ????


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (poopooplatter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *poopooplatter* »_
Maybe thats why my car never seems to run right. My MAF may be too big for the injectors and program for stage 1. ????

time to up the "antie" lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rickyrunamuk (Sep 13, 2004)

truth is out ,all you guys love a good pissing match, . Jeff, Mike can anybody answer my question


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (mikemcnair)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikemcnair* »_
that is cool. i wish i went right to the 4" instead of doing things twice. 
but the VR does not come "standard" per se with a 4" MAF housing on the Stage 1 tune. 

Actually, it depends on the application.
VR6
OBDI coilpack uses 36# inj. w/95mm MAF (EA/BM)
OBDI dizzy uses 30# inj. w/stock VR6 MAF (~70mm)
OBDI dizzy corrado uses 30# inj. w/stock VR6 MAF (~70mm)
OBDI dizzy uses 42# inj. w/95mm MAF
OBDI dizzy corrado uses 42# inj. w/95mm MAF
OBDII all use 95mm MAF, 30#/42# inj.
MKIV uses 36#/42#/60# w/4.00" MAF
2.0L
OBDI uses 42# inj. w/VR6 MAF (~70mm)
OBDII uses 30# inj w/stock MAF 
OBDII uses 42# inj. w/VR6 MAF (~70mm)

C2




_Modified by C2Motorsports at 4:40 PM 2-1-2007_


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (rickyrunamuk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickyrunamuk* »_My question is , Dear Vortexers ,if i go to a 4 inch maf, 3 inch exhaust and air water ic, what kind of potential will there be on that vr6-obd 1, and *how involved is it in tweaking the tune*, will we have to start from scratch or is ther a foundation allready in place to work from?

well the answewr to your question is actually a question......
how much money you got? lol, seriously, the potential of your motor is totally up to your goals and expectations. what do you want, as in, how much HP? 
you sound like you are on the right path, and larger MAF and larger EXHAUST will definitely help, if you have the supporting software and injectors. AWIC's are great and effective, but you must choose it wisely for your HP goals. as for the intercooler you currently have being the restriction in your system, um, well, that is poissible, but not likely. i would need specs on it, like the CFM it can flow effectively. 
this question you ask is common, and again i will tell you, the sky is the limit








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by mikemcnair at 3:16 PM 2-1-2007_
edit: i am still perplexed by the lack of increasing power while increasing boost. do you have any dyno's with AFR's on them? 










_Modified by mikemcnair at 3:17 PM 2-1-2007_


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## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (C2Motorsports)*

Great info Jeff, Herbehop, could you add this to the FAQ? Could you also make the FAQ sticky?
-m


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## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (maxslug)*

Until more people like C2 start making GOOD tuning options for VR's the price is going to be higher than lets say SCT! (Brad). Look at our options:
ATP (junk tuning)
EIP (Hit or miss)
C2
Stand alone ($1000+ just for hardware) then hours to tune.


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## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

where is everyone running there plugs at?


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_Great info Jeff, Herbehop, could you add this to the FAQ? Could you also make the FAQ sticky?
-m

FAQ is a sticky... 
I'll add this when I get home from work.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (J Dubya)*

(Jarod) The point is that it is still to much money, for a mail order tune. I agree the other options besides standalone aren't the best but that doesnt make it right to charge $1000. I mean I guess C2 made your old car run pretty good.....


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## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (VR6T 20 PSI)*

Actually the car ran perfect the whole time I ran the C2 software. I wasn't looking to get huge numbers. I was breaking trannies at 330WHP why would I need to get more? But I guess that's what happens when you track a car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You and Brian should make a Ford ECU/harness work on the dubs and sell it. He did a great job tuning my Lightning.


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## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_(Jarod) The point is that it is still to much money, for a mail order tune. 

i think it is a shame that C2's software is referred to aas a "mail order" tune. it is far beyond that. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to C2, and the fact that my car runs flawlessly.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (J Dubya)*

Already in the works.........


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_(Jarod) The point is that it is still to much money, for a mail order tune. I agree the other options besides standalone aren't the best but that doesnt make it right to charge $1000.


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_630 mk4 12v: not a drop in tune....
It is optimized for each individual set-up.
-Jeff

How do you consider the tune to be "mail order" when its a custom tune?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_because it is not done on a dyno.

Right because you can duplicate real street tuning on a dyno







.
Look you like your tune...Be happy. Leave yourself out of C2 topics.
If you don't like C2 software so be it.
Don't constantly bash the C2 threads...because the software works..period.
Go hate elsewhere


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (FMF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FMF* »_
^^^that sh!!t is why i pay you the big bucks, Jeff. Forget what I said earlier. You deserve every bit of that $600 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

It's not even about the cost of the Winols or Dimpsport along with the hardware, it's that you buy this stuff and still have to learn how to use it, now imagine having to tune a Motric 7 ecu where the ecu controls the Throttle..... not fun messing up and having it shut on someone who's driving at WOT.....


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

A car should be tuned on the Dyno and on the street jackass..... I am not bashing C2 I just think $1000 to mail my ECU to them and him send it back does not justify the money.


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## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*

Looks like it's time to sell the dub and buy a Honda.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_A car should be tuned on the Dyno and on the street jackass..... I am not bashing C2 I just think $1000 to mail my ECU to them and him send it back does not justify the money. 

Right ...search you own posts....you pop up in alot of them..and used to have a bash right in your sig.....








and (2000 Camaro Z28TT 613whp 589wtq @ 9.5lbs Stock longblock)



_Modified by herbehop at 10:40 AM 2-3-2007_


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Do NOT turn this into another argument.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

thumbs up to both C2 for my excellent tuning and vrt 20psi for doing all my install/dyno work and tech help.


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

You guys should update your website. I didn't even know this was available until I saw this thread. I bought moles old car and it is already insane with the 440's on the stock bottom end. I had your software on my 2.0T as well, and I have nothing but positive comments about your software. I will likely be contacting you this summer about the 630 software.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_$1000 is more then fair for a custom tune, unless you want to stare at a bunch of binary and hex and stuff and try to read it as a fuel map. 
I'll leave that for Jeff








Tuning stock ecu is a million times harder then tuning standalone, or already sorted out for you by somebody else - stock ecu (hondata, etc). Of course it costs more! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


I agree......
Think of this....
Even though the software is $1000, or custom tune/ dyno time etc. could cost you $1200 or so, which would be as much as standalone...... you still need to install the standalone unit, which if you couldn't do it your self would be another 7-14 hours of install ~$1000 depending on who does it and how familiar they are with the unit you choose... and then the dyno time to tune it as well ~600-1000$ once again, unless you are tunning it yourself, and then going to the dyno which is still >$400 for a few hours......
Jeff does all the grunt work for you, and its the most important part of your entire setup by far.....
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to jeff


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (_muppet_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_muppet_* »_You guys should update your website. I didn't even know this was available until I saw this thread. I bought moles old car and it is already insane with the 440's on the stock bottom end. I had your software on my 2.0T as well, and I have nothing but positive comments about your software. I will likely be contacting you this summer about the 630 software.


We will be releasing a NEW C2Motorsports eCommerce sight in the next 2 weeks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Chris
C2


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## UBER KUHL (May 16, 2005)

Are all of you high hp guys out there using AWIC's? It seems like most of you are, but are any of you running into problems with Air-air IC's?


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## dubdoor (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_630's actually have BETTER driveability than the 440's.
630 software: 
Mk4 12v: available by request.
*Mk4 24v: in process.*
Mk3 VR6: custom tune only.
Mk3 8V: Custom tune only. (I have a 750cc project this year)
Practically speaking, the 4" MAF is the largest housing that
the ~stock MAF sensor can fit into, this limits measureable total flow.
There are possibliities to go further, but these won't ever be 
sold in 'kit' form.

-Jeff



us 24ver's need some attention...it's pretty bleak for us out there...help..help..
summer maybe....fall...???
holdin' on...still have hope....progress is good!!!
i might be able to find an ally or two in, oh say, port kells...







hehe


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (radokid88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *radokid88* »_Are all of you high hp guys out there using AWIC's? It seems like most of you are, but are any of you running into problems with Air-air IC's?

Brian (tekstepvr6) and Jon (shaggyvr6) are both running a/a with no issues. and both run 20+ psi on the street.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_A car should be tuned on the Dyno and on the street jackass..... I am not bashing C2 I just think $1000 to mail my ECU to them and him send it back does not justify the money. 

Bragging rights for peak HP figures aside, based on reading many posts on here, I think most of us are mostly concerned with the bang-for-the buck.
Suppose your hardware running with optimal software can theoretically get 400HP. With Jeff's "mailorder" software which is not dyno tuned on YOUR car, you only achieve 390HP. How much more are you willing to pay for that last 10HP?
How many dollars per HP?
See what I'm getting at? Jeff's software may not be the BEST possible for YOUR car, but its gonna be pretty damn close and you really can't beat the bang-for-the-buck!


_Modified by phatvw at 10:33 AM 2-13-2007_


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (phatvw)*

You people that are complaining about price are funny. Just because it costs $29.99 to tune your domestic small block with an ECU that is about as complicated as an Etch-a-sketch doesn't mean it should cost you the same amount to tune your N/A->turbo conversion VR6 with MUCH larger MAF, injectors, and a very advanced ECU that very few are capable of tuning correctly. All the hardware in the world means 0 if you can't use it effectively.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (dubdoor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubdoor* »_us 24ver's need some attention...it's pretty bleak for us out there...help..help..


This is why I bought an '03 GTi VR6.









-Jeff


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## dubdoor (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (Jefnes3)*

i think read you had one, but thought you were in to it for the sublime experience of the finest n/a motor vw has yet to produce...








but now that that's cleared up...let's break some axles and burn up some clutches!!!
mmm...canned 24v turbo software...
oh this could be a good summer!!


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## FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6 (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Question for C2 Motorsports... (dubdoor)*

will a walbro inline fuel pump 255lph be enough for the 6o# software?


_Modified by FNVR6T aka 2k1 vr6 at 9:49 AM 2-24-2007_


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