# How long to store oil filters?



## jnmarshall (Aug 25, 2011)

After 2k since the dealer did my last oil change I checked the dipstick and it looked black as if they didn’t change it. It was also overfilled(7qts). I decided to do my own. I went up to wallyworld picked up a bottle of supertech full syn and found they had the fram xtraguard for only $10.96. Usually this is a $30+ filter, I have no clue why!! But I bought the lot. Did my oil change. But now I’m wonder how long these filters will keep? Following the VAG recommended interval, 10k miles, I will have several years of storing these filters. Definitely longer then I plan to keep the car.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I can only assume that you have purchased the oil and filter for your '16 Tiguan. If that is true, you can get those oil filters [PH10600] for $12-$14. If you found one for sale at $30, then there is something up with that. I certainly would never put in a Fram and would highly recommend to anyone to stay away from that company for your German product. Mann W719/45 is the OEM filter and can be found for a similar price that the inferior Fram filter.

With the oil, does it meet VW / Audi 502 00 / 505 00 spec? If not, I do not see the advantage of putting in the wrong oil in the engine.


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## jnmarshall (Aug 25, 2011)

Butcher said:


> I can only assume that you have purchased the oil and filter for your '16 Tiguan. If that is true, you can get those oil filters [PH10600] for $12-$14. If you found one for sale at $30, then there is something up with that. I certainly would never put in a Fram and would highly recommend to anyone to stay away from that company for your German product. Mann W719/45 is the OEM filter and can be found for a similar price that the inferior Fram filter.


These are the XG10600(Gold cans). Looking online they are typically $30+. Wallyworld had them on the shelf for $10.96! 



Butcher said:


> With the oil, does it meet VW / Audi 502 00 / 505 00 spec? If not, I do not see the advantage of putting in the wrong oil in the engine.


The oil meets the "spec" for 500/502. It's not on the "official" VW list or painted on the bottle. But since there's nothing technically published about why one bottle of oil has the VW approval and another doesn't appears purely marketing. I'm certain VW does not test the thousands or 10s of thousands different brands and variants to give their stamp of approval on it. It seems more likely it's just the submission of a certain type of castrol, mobile, etc.. that the oil makers pay VW to test and approve. I'm not buying into the marketing hype.


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## Ichabod0525 (Feb 11, 2018)

To your question; "*how long these filters will keep*?" Kept in a cool dry place, sealed in plastic I would imagine two years. That being said you could always shoot a note to *FRAM* and ask them and go with that.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

jnmarshall said:


> .......fram xtraguard for only $10.96.....


So the filter is an UltraGuard, but that does not change my opinion on Fram. Some people are stubborn and I fit that demographic. There are more people like me....https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3691993/Fram_oil_filter_XG10600_commen

I'll stick with what the factory uses when it comes to filters for my clients.

As for the oil, I agree about a VW approved oil comment, that is why I mentioned VW spec. I've looked, but I have not seen any evidence that it meets/exceeds the VW spec. Maybe you can post a part number of the oil. If it does not, with the year of your car, I would want to make certain the stuff you are using meets the factory spec. As a top dealer tech for 30 years, I know if there was ever an engine with a major issue, the oil was first sent to have it analyzed before any major repairs were done. I know each manufacture does things differently, but I have seen many warranty claims denied for having incorrect services. That includes the wrong oil filters and the wrong spec oil.

And to answer your original question, like it was mentioned above, a cool dry place.


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## jnmarshall (Aug 25, 2011)

Butcher said:


> As for the oil, I agree about a VW approved oil comment, that is why I mentioned VW spec.
> …
> As a top dealer tech for 30 years


Can you scan or take a pic of this and post the official "VW spec"?




Butcher said:


> the oil was first sent to have it analyzed before any major repairs were done.


Never had an issue. In cases where oil was attempted to be blamed when the dealer did not have the history, the dealer, and usually an mfg regional rep, will ask for proof in the way of a receipt with date and mileage. It can be from a quick change place too. I always write the mileage down on the back of the receipt for the oil and filter when I change my own. They are usually looking for signs of abuse or neglect IF it's sent off.
NEVER EVER in decades of ownership have I ever seen or experienced an oil filter as the blame. And I typically use the cheap wallyworld ones without question if its available. If not I go with the Fram, Purolator, Wix, or whatever is locally available.


What I do is go into the store, find a bottle of brand Y oil that has VW502 printed on it turn it over and look at the alphabet soup printed on it. I ignore the junk like approved for use by GM or Honda or whatever spec blah blah blah, as that has no more value then VW500, 502, 505, etc... Then I look at brand Y that cost half the price. Same type, typically a FS, and match viscosities, 5w30, 5w40. I turn it over and if it has all the same alphabet soup, I buy it.

Same can be said for Mobil 1. And EVERYONE LOVES MOBIL 1. There on the shelf is a "European" flavor of it. And next to it for $10-$15 less is the same stuff without the "European" label. Nothing different as indicated on the bottle except they add the approved VW, BMW, etc.. to the labeling. But what's different? A shot of EVO from Italy maybe? Doubtful. It's just a sample sent to Germany with a large sum of euros for VAG to say "Ya vol!" and Mobil says "We're approved. OUI! OUI!" And now it's European and we can charge extra to recover all the euros we paid VAG, BMW, MB, etc...


But we are really going off topic. So back on topic... I did find out from Fram that filter should have a shelf life of at least 10 years as shipped. The cheaper ones, like the PH, is about 2 years as shipped. The two things that deteriorate over time is the gasket and the filter material inside. I bought 6 and only plan to keep the car for about another 3 or 4 so I'll just use them and pass remaining ones on to the next owner.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

VW/Audi 502 00 / 505 00. If it does not say that on the bottle, then it does not meet VW/Audi specs.

We all have opinions on what brand to use and I do understand where you are coming from. I do believe without a doubt that because the German cars can be driven as fast as they can on any given day [legally] that they build their cars/engines that way. I do believe they take that seriously and therefore their recommendations should be followed. If a manufacturer did not post their specs, then people would do anything they wanted and the manufacturers would not be able to say you put in the wrong stuff. Pretty simple to understand

I do understand that money aspect about manufacturers using specified oils. Mercedes likes Mobil 1, BMW likes Castrol, etc. I agree, there is money spent to post that information under the hood and in ads. There is no money aspect for a manufacturer to post the specs of what they require for their engines/trans/etc. For oil companies that meet those specs, they will post that it does in the fine print on the back of the bottle. There is no money given to the manufacturers. 

There is a difference between factory approved [no $] and factory recommended [$$]. There are cheap oils that passes VW/Audi specs. http://service-pro.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/WA-FullSyn5W-40.pdf

If you do not think that they check oil, then you are not living in the real world. Go ahead, take you chance. You should of seen the owner a leased Mercedes ML320 that used biodiesel that had no warranty when the engine failed. It was a mess. Even the owners own lawyers said he was screwed. Because it was leased, he lost his warranty and had to spend thousands to turn in a POS after the lease was over. Yes, I had the engine oil and fuel analyzed before I spent 30 mins on it.

https://blog.amsoil.com/why-do-european-vehicles-require-special-oil-2/
https://www.autoserviceworld.com/carsmagazine/european-oils/

So you believe your opinion is fact, but with a little education, you will see that your opinion is wrong. If it works for you, great, that is all that matters.


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## Eric1285 (Sep 13, 2008)

Different motor, but I've bought filters in bulk and stored them for years for my Mk6 Golf R and the Audi A3 we used to have. Both have the 2.0T FSI engine so they used the same filters. I'm pretty sure I have some that are 5-6+ years old and they seem to work just fine.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I am a member of iATN [https://www.iatn.net/] and I just read about a 2010 VW GTI with a horrible engine noise with 63k. It ended being a worn out high pressure fuel pump and lifter. Come to find out, the client was using the wrong oil [as in cheap SAE, not VW spec oil]. 

This is one reason why you should use VW spec oil.


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## jnmarshall (Aug 25, 2011)

Butcher said:


> I am a member of iATN [https://www.iatn.net/] and I just read about a 2010 VW GTI with a horrible engine noise with 63k. It ended being a worn out high pressure fuel pump and lifter. Come to find out, the client was using the wrong oil [as in cheap SAE, not VW spec oil].
> 
> This is one reason why you should use VW spec oil.


Butcher, again I’ll ask because you keep pushing, please provide the “VW spec”. I have NEVER seen a spec. I’ve asked the service department at two dealers, they are not aware of a spec. There are only aware of “approved” oils. One of the service guys admitted they are suppose to use the Castrol brand. But due to costs they buy another brand in bulk. I think he said penzoil, but not certain. He didn’t think it was “approved”, but said it’s the same specs as the castrol. They switched due to costs to compete with the $39 oil change coupons Vw sends out. 

I’m sure there are many cases of motors being damaged by oil, and if you go searching on the internet you are sure to find it. I’m also certain there are issues with any oil on the market, even vw approved, that there may have been a bad batch with contaminated, etc... it’s also easy for a dealer to point the finger at the oil or filter if it’s not stamped VAG or the owner can’t provide proof.


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## Jack Watts (Jul 19, 2015)

jnmarshall said:


> Butcher, again I’ll ask because you keep pushing, please provide the “VW spec”. I have NEVER seen a spec. I’ve asked the service department at two dealers, they are not aware of a spec. There are only aware of “approved” oils. One of the service guys admitted they are suppose to use the Castrol brand. But due to costs they buy another brand in bulk. I think he said penzoil, but not certain. He didn’t think it was “approved”, but said it’s the same specs as the castrol. They switched due to costs to compete with the $39 oil change coupons Vw sends out.
> 
> I’m sure there are many cases of motors being damaged by oil, and if you go searching on the internet you are sure to find it. I’m also certain there are issues with any oil on the market, even vw approved, that there may have been a bad batch with contaminated, etc... it’s also easy for a dealer to point the finger at the oil or filter if it’s not stamped VAG or the owner can’t provide proof.


??

502 and 505 are indeed a spec. You can find some specific information here, which details what goes into it: https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php


If you're out of warranty (or don't care about the warranty), and you're using the Supertech 5W40, I imagine it's just fine--but there is indeed a test protocol. They don't make up a logo, and an oil does indeed have to go through formal testing and submit the results to VW in order to list the formal approval. The 248 hour T4 testing is part of the protocol (other mfgs such as Mercedes and BMW use the same test), and there are a bunch of other requirements--both test results (such as cam lobe wear) and physical properties (such as noack volatility and hths) Not sure why folks assume this is some sorta made up thing? 

Some manufacturers make oil that meets the spec, but don't want to pay for the testing. All that said, WM carries at least two oils that have the formal builder approval (M1 0W40 and Castrol 0W40 and 5W40) that do carry the formal approval, and cost roughly the same--so I'm not sure what you're saving here?

As to the original question, I just put a 10 year old oil filter on my Ford Freestyle (bought a case when I got the car). It's stored inside in a plastic bin. I have zero concerns. Not sure what going to go bad on it.


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## jnmarshall (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack Watts said:


> ??
> 
> 502 and 505 are indeed a spec. You can find some specific information here, which details what goes into it: https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php


Thank you Jack for the good read. This is NOT a spec. It does discuss the interesting points of what qualities or feature an oil maker must meet to be APPROVED by VAG. And again, it isn’t VAG spending the $$$ for the approval. I’m absolutely 100% certain there are many other oils that meet these requirements but just haven’t paid VAG for the privilege of being on their approved list. 



> As to the original question, I just put a 10 year old oil filter on my Ford Freestyle (bought a case when I got the car). It's stored inside in a plastic bin. I have zero concerns. Not sure what going to go bad on it.


 Appreciate you keeping it on topic. From what Fram explained the two issues with old filters are moisture, like condensation occurring on the inside and the lubrication of the gasket. Because these filters are synthetic in nature, the moisture is not an issue and will be absorbed by the oil and boiled off when the engine reaches operating tempatures. The gasket they suggested checking every other year and applying any kind of motor oil with you finger just like the old days to relubricate and prevent it form drying out and deteriorating.


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## Jack Watts (Jul 19, 2015)

jnmarshall said:


> Thank you Jack for the good read. This is NOT a spec. It does discuss the interesting points of what qualities or feature an oil maker must meet to be APPROVED by VAG. And again, it isn’t VAG spending the $$$ for the approval. I’m absolutely 100% certain there are many other oils that meet these requirements but just haven’t paid VAG for the privilege of being on their approved list.


If you want the actual details of the spec, you can find it on page 130 of this here: http://www.aftonchemical.com/Afton/media/PdfFiles/Specification_Handbook.pdf



jnmarshall said:


> Appreciate you keeping it on topic. From what Fram explained the two issues with old filters are moisture, like condensation occurring on the inside and the lubrication of the gasket. Because these filters are synthetic in nature, the moisture is not an issue and will be absorbed by the oil and boiled off when the engine reaches operating tempatures. The gasket they suggested checking every other year and applying any kind of motor oil with you finger just like the old days to relubricate and prevent it form drying out and deteriorating.


I guess the other concern if you're hanging onto oil filters forever would be the glue that holds the end caps. Obviously I'm not worried about it personally, but who knows. I do thing there's a big difference though between sitting in my dry, heated basement vs. sitting in an unheated/uncooled garage.


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## Kjmack (Sep 19, 2018)

jnmarshall said:


> Jack Watts said:
> 
> 
> > ??
> ...


Its not hard to find the spec you speak of . When VW says to use a certain weight oil that meets 502 cert . It means that oil meets the ,FORGET IT , you seem to know better . Penny wise pound foolish .


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

jnmarshall said:


> I’m also certain there are issues with any oil on the market, even vw approved, that there may have been a bad batch with contaminated, etc... it’s also easy for a dealer to point the finger at the oil or filter if it’s not stamped VAG or the owner can’t provide proof.


Anything can happen, I know, I worked at a dealership for 30+ years. The dealership is just a business. They like to get paid for the services they provide. All business' need to make money to keep the doors open. It is not cheap to do that. I can assure you, that any good dealership is selling spec oil. The factory knows what goes on in the back. They know how much parts your are buying as well as oil. There are averages so if you are not selling the same percentage of oil filters as another dealership, they know something is up. I know, I had a parts manager that would by grey market parts. He would then hand those parts out for warranty repairs. The factory asked how we could do 10 coolant pump warranty repairs when we never ordered one from them? Sure enough, there was a big audit.

As much as I hate the business practices of most of the dealerships around my area, I can say there are none that are selling non spec oil. The manufacturer knows what you are buying and the factory reps that I worked with, they would start to require oil quality checks on every engine warranty job. Once they found that the wrong oil was used, they would deny that claim. Guess who would pick up the tab? Yeah, the dealership because they were the ones that serviced the engine. It's not just engines, it applies to transmissions too.

The dealership is just a middle man. If you think it is easy to tell a client that their fairly new VW engine is damaged and needs to be replaced, you are mistaken. I have worked with hundreds of service and parts personnel. There may be one or two that would love to tell you the bad news. Most people hate to tell you that VW is not going to pay the bill [no, it's not the dealership that makes that decision]. They also would hate to tell you the reason why is because you did not perform your service properly. It's a sure fire way to lower your CSI and therefore your bonus. Everyone loves to be the hero.

Most dealerships are just pirate ships on land. Most owners only want the money to keep coming in. They really do not care how it's done. Most owners are not that stupid and understand there are some expenses that must happen. The right oil is one of them.

So you keep asking for a spec and it has been given many times. If you cannot find it on the bottle, then it's most likely will not pass VW spec. The dealership is not the go to place for information. Try the owners manual. If they have a warranty or a maintenance manual, read that. Why? because no one else does, including everyone at the dealership. The oil spec will be there.

I agree with VW approved oils. The oil company does pay to be on that list. There is no money exchanged to make a VW spec oil. If you do not understand that, then Google search until you do.

Sorry to derail your thread, but others that read this may learn that just because it's synthetic SAE oil, does not mean it is the right oil. If you keep putting in the wrong oil, those Fram oil filters may be on the shelf much longer than you originally thought. 

If you do have an engine problem and they do ask for receipts, I suggest you not show them the Wally World receipt.

I'm out.


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

First to the topic - stored dry, in a cool location filters can last up to 10 years. However, even if I had to spend an extra $20 to make sure my filter was good- I wouldn't even think about it. 

As for the oil, the certification 502, or 505 is absolutely a specification - just like dextron II, or III etc, or DOT III or DOT IV, OR DOT IV+ brake fluid - all have different characteristics. For brake fluid, its about boiling point and ability to resist absorbing water. 

GM/Cadillac required DexCool coolant, VW requires G12/G13. You wouldn't use DexCool in a VW, right? Or "Green" antifreeze in you Dubb? 

The oil channels are engineered to such tight tolerances and oil circulation so important to the engine lubrication one way to extend the life of the engine is to pre-pump oil prior to starting. If you think about the fractions of a second difference between pre-priming the oil and a cold start - taking a chance on clogging a channel with cooked oil from the turbo or lower quality oil because the boiling temperature was off by 10 degrees because it was not VW502 is something I simply wont risk. I've been through 2 cases with VWOA for blown engines and gotten new engines both times. One well passed warranty- and the primary reason? PROOF of oil changes with certified oil within factory recommendations. The extra $500 spent on the oil changes has saved me over $6,000. 

Willing to risk it just because YOU cant tell the difference between a certified oil and a non-certified oil? There was an @$$hat who argued that same point - THEN claimed VWOA were the ones being difficult. I'm constantly amazed how folks dont follow the company recommendations (yeah, like octane ratings) then claim the car, or manufacturer is at fault. 

When you decide you know more than the manufacturer , continue to follow that logic and complete all your own repairs and don't ask them to - ever. 
Because when you sludge your engine by using incorrect oil, or clog the injectors, or cover the valves in carbon by burning Unleaded 87 - they are not going to reward the blatant idiocy with a new engine. 

Course, just my opinion. What do I know. 


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## stratclub (Feb 3, 2007)

Some people should not do their own maintenance. If they don't even use the correct oil and justify it by some made up Rain Man caliber critical thinking, who knows what else they did wrong.

My local dealer does not sell the VW 505.01 5W40 oil my car requires. Apparently they sell 505.01 5W30 instead. Apparently, since I'm well out of warranty, I can just go Eff myself.


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

I wouldn't say you are effed...Walmart has the oil, so does almost all auto parts stores. However. It's the cheapest at Wally world. 
Also, Amazon will ship regular Mobil or Castrol carted oil as well as liquid moly. 
All I was trying to say is that the specs are there for a reason, and even following their recommendations has not kept me from having problems - so I'm not comfortable NOT using the spec fluids. 
Best of luck. If it helps, I'm out of warranty as well (by 7,000 miles) as a result had to pay for my own timing chain and tensioner. 

Keep the faith. 

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## stratclub (Feb 3, 2007)

Well there's that. Some automotive designs are just plain old crap and doing everything right still gets you shafted.


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

Yup. Currently have a 2010 Jetta Wolfsburg - and really want to love it.
Fortunately I enjoy tinkering - so I don't mind always finding something to clean, or improve (all new interior LED's from Wish - 23 piece kit for $28 shipped! being the most recent) And honestly - the improvement with the blue LED's is amazing. And can't beat the cost. 

Good luck. Yodel if I can ever assist. 


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## MK7_JSW (Jun 10, 2015)

FYI, Supertech brand of oils are filled by Pennzoil company, its not terrible stuff but i don't believe it meets VW502/505 specs, whether you decide to use it or not is up to you, I prefer to stay within the specified oils for the sake of piece of mind.


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## jackalopephoto (Jul 5, 2015)

Considering an oil filter can last for a year in a car soaked in oil subject to massive temperature swings and high heat, shouldn't it be able to last forever on the shelf?


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