# Wanted a Golf R with a DSG so I bought an A3 2.0T Quattro



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I just bought a 2009 Audi A3 2.0T Quattro. After having a BMW 335i and missing having a hatchback and searching for a TT I decided to get an A3 because
the price was right and it just made to much sense to have a 4 door. I am hoping to spice up the A3 to get Golf R type performance out of it. I will use it for 
getting groceries, taking kids to school, 3-4 track days a year, and general driving enjoyment. I know one car can't do it all, but I think the A3 might be
as good of choice as there is. Did I pick the right car? 


*Thoughts on Mods:*

*POWER:* 
I miss the N54 in the BMW. Loved the smooth quiet effortless power it made. I am hoping a APR K04 can give me close to that type of power in the A3. I am
not planning to do I/CBE/DP with the install. Is that crazy? Is the APR kit civil and give a OEM with attitude type drive? Would just chipping it be enough?

*SUSPENSION:*
I am hoping thinking H&R Touring Cup Kit. I want to keep things simple and hope it rides smooth. I would love to get the KW V3's like I had on my MR2, but 
I just don't want to spend the money on them for a mostly commuter car. So are the H&R Tourings a good choice? Which bars would work? How are the ST Coilovers?

*WHEELS/TIRES:*
Do the TT wheels bolt on? I would love to go with 255/35R18's on the A3, but everything I see is a 18x8 or 18x8.5 wheel. Love the price of the ALZOR 1x8 Style 601 wheels 
on ECSTuning. I loved my VMR VB3's on my BMW with Conti ExtremeContact DW's and could see going with them or Dunlop Direzza ZII that I had on my MR2. 

*INTERIOR:*
Man I loved the steering wheel in the TT's. The thick rim and flat bottom with on the wheel shifters. Any chance I can swap that part on? 

*BRAKES*
Thinking good pads, fluid, and maybe steel lines should be enough for the lapping events I plan to attend. (Autocross a F500 for serious speed)

Am I nuts? Am I on the right track?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

A3owner said:


> I just bought a 2009 Audi A3 2.0T Quattro. After having a BMW 335i and missing having a hatchback and searching for a TT I decided to get an A3 because
> the price was right and it just made to much sense to have a 4 door. I am hoping to spice up the A3 to get Golf R type performance out of it. I will use it for
> getting groceries, taking kids to school, 3-4 track days a year, and general driving enjoyment. I know one car can't do it all, but I think the A3 might be
> as good of choice as there is. Did I pick the right car?
> ...


I recommend you take a look at A3 build threads on the page... there are quite a few to get you started. The K04 is a nice setup. I went for APRs stage 3 kit right away, but it does require DP/intake/intercooler... totally worth it, and mild until/unless you stomp on it. For steering wheels, it depends on what came on your car. Cheapest is one that uses the same airbag as what you have, that way you're only swapping wheels. Personally, I don't like coilovers, so it's kinda up to you as far as suspension goes, but you can put together a decent cup kit that will get you as good, if not better performance that the STs, IMO. Wheels are a totally personal thing, but better tires are always well invested. There's several people on here who know a bit more than me, but those are my $.02.


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## kharma (Jan 2, 2004)

Congrats on the purchase. I came to the same conclusion after test driving and pricing Golf R's... I couldn't justify the price vs what else I could get for the $$ and found an A3 with <10k mi. So far, I've done the downpipe (B&B) with an APR Stg II flash and am very happy with the results. I'll probably eventually go K04, but for now every time I get the itch I throw in some 100oct and switch the file. I didn't want to mess around with coilovers, so opted for the VWR springs. They're a bit stiff being linear, but eliminate the giant wheel gap nicely.


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## MrsYareka (Dec 29, 2012)

First thing I did to my A3 was the H&R cup kit. I didn't want or need coilovers as my car is a daily and I commute a lot. I am very happy with the setup. I like the stiffness that I have but its also still a soft enough ride my kids don't complain. It also closed in the horrible wheel gap I had and made it look that much more sleeker. 

I am also looking for a flat bottom wheel. Haven't bitten the bullet on the price tag they come with yet. As mentioned, if you can find a wheel that you can just swap your airbag with you will save about $500. Those OEM wheels are freaking expensive.

Can't respond to the K04, don't know enough about it. I am starting with Unitronic stage 1+. Not ready to turn her into a fully tuned car yet. Give it another year or so though...

Good luck with the build. I am sure you will be quite happy with your A3


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I just bought a 2009 Audi A3 2.0T Quattro. After having a BMW 335i and missing having a hatchback and searching for a TT I decided to get an A3 because
> the price was right and it just made to much sense to have a 4 door. I am hoping to spice up the A3 to get Golf R type performance out of it. I will use it for
> getting groceries, taking kids to school, 3-4 track days a year, and general driving enjoyment. I know one car can't do it all, but I think the A3 might be
> as good of choice as there is. Did I pick the right car?
> ...


Did you pick the _right _car? That's arguable to many, even me. Based on what I wanted to do with _my _car, I think you did. Now you just need to pick and, more importantly, _execute _the _right _mods.

*My Thoughts on Mods:*

*POWER:* 
K04 will get you what you want power wise in comparison to the N54 in the 335i. In fact, a bit faster. I have no issues with them as long their bone stock, I can dispatch them with relative ease. If they're chipped, no way. If you're gonna go K04, Go APR. It's a shameless plug in appearance, I know, but I have one, lots of experience with their products on this and my last Audi not to mention countless other cars people I know own, and it's all good stuff. The APR K04 kit _definitely _feels like it _belongs _in the car from the factory. That said, if you're going to do the K04, do it all they way. Get a DP, Exhaust, FMIC upgrade (S3 at the very least), and intake. 

Here's what I suggest you do. Take my upgrade path. Get the APR software, exhaust, intake, and (if you can swing it) FMIC upgrade first all at once. That right there made a HUGE difference. You will need all of these because Quattro drivetrain loss is a bitch. If it was FWD, you could probably just chip it and be happy with the power. Alternately, if you don't have sport suspension, do the suspension upgrade, tune, and a full exhaust first. Then on the second round, intake and FMIC upgrade.

*SUSPENSION:*
This is totally your decision on comfort vs. handling. I have H&R coilovers and I like them, but they're firm for sure. You may be on the right track with the H&R cup kit. *DO NOT GET ST'S.* I suffered with them previous to the H&R's for almost 2.5 yrs. They are ****.

*WHEELS/TIRES:*
I think the MKII TT wheels will bolt up. That said you are not getting 255's on this car without some serious modification to the fenders (like changing them to RS3 fenders) depending on how low you drop the car. The VMR's are a great wheel choice. I had V710's on my previous B7 A4. Not gonna argue the tires with you. I prefer expensive Michelin and Bridgestone to your choices. I despise Continental and Dunlop.

*INTERIOR:*
Yes and it will be _expensive_.

*BRAKES*
At Stages I-II a set of _really _good pads front and rear plus the rest of the items you listed will cut it. When/if you go K04, forget it. You will need, at the very least, R32 front upgrades with good pads for both street and track purposes. My rear brakes are stock, I just put brand new OEM Bosch pads on, and they're fine. I have no intention of upgrading the rear brakes.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

davis_449 said:


> *BRAKES*
> At Stages I-II a set of _really _good pads front and rear plus the rest of the items you listed will cut it. When/if you go K04, forget it. You will need, at the very least, R32 front upgrades with good pads for both street and track purposes. My rear brakes are stock, I just put brand new OEM Bosch pads on, and they're fine. I have no intention of upgrading the rear brakes.


Personally, if you do the brakes, the cheapest way into a BBK is the Porsche Boxster upgrade. Much easier, as you get to keep the stock rotors and lines, and just swap calipers, bracket, and bolts (and of course pads). The R32 caliper is bigger, but it is essentially the same setup as stock, with a large, single piston, where with the porsche / brembos, you get a nice 4-piston setup for more even braking, with less weight and better stopping power, plus they will fit inside stock 17" wheels, although if you're replacing those it won't matter anyway. The other advantage to the brembos is that with the same size, it won't throw off the front to rear bias, which is also nice. There is certainly nothing wrong with the R32 setup, I just thought the porsche setup was worth mentioning. 

Also, FWIW, I have APR stage 3, which is a little more power than a K04, and the "need" to upgrade brakes is arguable... it depends on your braking / driving style. I've run the nurburgring with stock brakes several times, and had no problems... no overheating, no boiling the fluid, nothing. SS lines and good fluid were enough. Throw in some better pads, and that's even better. The ability for the brakes to stop the car is independent of the power the car has. These brakes were chosen / designed to go with the car based on its weight, so unless you're planning on doing some left-foot braking or heel-toe action at the track, you could probably hold off on the caliper upgrade for a little while. 

As with all mods, however, it is very user dependent, so again, I think the best advice is to lurk through the A3 threads, GTI threads, and Golf R threads to see what's out there that you can and may want to use, and then pick the ones that fit your budget and goals. I tend to research stuff for a long time before making purchases, and so far, I haven't had to reverse course or sell off a bunch of new parts for cheap because I was getting something other than what I wanted. Lastly, and then I'll stop: if you are going to spend the $$ on a steering wheel and are serious about making the car more fun to drive, wait on the wheel and get a competition Haldex controller, it does a lot more for the $$, is simple to install, and requires no coding, or airbag swapping, and will run close to the same amount of money.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

davis_449 said:


> Did you pick the _right _car? That's arguable to many, even me. Based on what I wanted to do with _my _car, I think you did. Now you just need to pick and, more importantly, _execute _the _right _mods.
> 
> *My Thoughts on Mods:*
> 
> ...



This pretty much nailed what I would have recommended as well, with a couple of minor exceptions.

The S3 intercooler will probably get you by with a K04 (obviously it is a factory part for the S3 which comes with a K04) depending on climate and driving conditions. If you're tracking on a hot day, obviously heat soak will be an issue. The plus side is the S3 is relatively inexpensive, and is a huge upgrade over the stock plastic end tank IC that comes from the factory. The only other IC I would consider would be the APR unit and it is quite expensive, but you get what you pay for.

As far as exhaust, I believe you can get by with a 3" catted downpipe mated to the stock cat-back for a K04 upgrade and be just fine. The general consensus is the stock cat-back is not that restrictive, and an aftermarket system only serves to increase the noise. A 3" catted downpipe will get you 98% of the performance gains and maintain a relatively low-key exhaust note, except for at full throttle. Personally, I love that, as it is inconspicuous driving around town but sounds pretty good when I want to zip around. Pretty much any tune/performance upgrade will require an aftermarket downpipe, though, as the stock unit is quite restrictive.

Seconded on skipping the STs. Save your money and put a nice set of coilovers on the car. Trust us both from experience on this one.

I would also recommend staying with an 18x8 or 18x8.5 wheel at most. You can run 19's (I believe the TT wheels are 19") but you will run into more fitment issues. I would say a 235 is about the widest tire you can fit without some bodywork modifications. 225/40/18 is the stock tire size for the 18" wheel option on the A3.

The TT/S3 style steering wheel should pretty much just bolt on and plug in. The most costly part is obtaining a new airbag, as the stock one will not fit the new wheel. If you check around on eBay you might get lucky, but if you're buying an airbag from eBay, I would make certain it is a reputable seller.

As far as brakes, I don't have a turbo upgrade but have basically everything else you can do power-wise. I am running Stoptech street pads with stainless steel lines and the Tyrolsport caliper stiffening kit. It does an OK job of stopping me, but there are times where it leaves me wanting more. There are a few options that have already been mentioned, but, as always, ultimate grip comes down to your tires.

The only other thing I might suggest would be a Haldex performance controller, which will allow you to adjust the bias to send a greater percentage of power to the rear wheels for spirited driving, track days, etc. Coming from a RWD car, that might make your A3 much more enjoyable. I know most people who have one say it makes a tremendous difference in the driving characteristics of the car.

Anyway hope that helps, and you should post some pictures so we can check out the new ride :thumbup:


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

npace said:


> Personally, if you do the brakes, the cheapest way into a BBK is the Porsche Boxster upgrade. Much easier, as you get to keep the stock rotors and lines, and just swap calipers, bracket, and bolts (and of course pads). The R32 caliper is bigger, but it is essentially the same setup as stock, with a large, single piston, where with the porsche / brembos, you get a nice 4-piston setup for more even braking, with less weight and better stopping power, plus they will fit inside stock 17" wheels, although if you're replacing those it won't matter anyway. The other advantage to the brembos is that with the same size, it won't throw off the front to rear bias, which is also nice. There is certainly nothing wrong with the R32 setup, I just thought the porsche setup was worth mentioning.


The R32 setup is, as you say, "essentially" the same setup as stock, but there's absolutely, positively NO question the braking is DRAMATICALLY improved over stock. That larger piston and larger rotor diameter make a HUGE difference. For what he's going to do with the car, larger brakes are "highly advised" (at least by me and everyone else I know), but definitely not a BBK.



> Also, FWIW, I have APR stage 3, which is a little more power than a K04, and the "need" to upgrade brakes is arguable... it depends on your braking / driving style. I've run the nurburgring with stock brakes several times, and had no problems... no overheating, no boiling the fluid, nothing. SS lines and good fluid were enough. Throw in some better pads, and that's even better. The ability for the brakes to stop the car is independent of the power the car has. These brakes were chosen / designed to go with the car based on its weight, so unless you're planning on doing some left-foot braking or heel-toe action at the track, you could probably hold off on the caliper upgrade for a little while.
> 
> *As with all mods, however, it is very user dependent*, so again, I think the best advice is to lurk through the A3 threads, GTI threads, and Golf R threads to see what's out there that you can and may want to use, and then pick the ones that fit your budget and goals. I tend to research stuff for a long time before making purchases, and so far, I haven't had to reverse course or sell off a bunch of new parts for cheap because I was getting something other than what I wanted.


Arguable, indeed. You will never convince anyone with a brain or technical knowledge of the A3 (or many other cars, for that matter) that the stock brakes on this car were designed for its weight, especially with more power on tap. If that were the case, it would've come with the same brakes my B7 A4 came with, since their curb weight is almost the same. Ever wonder why the B7 A4 got the B6 S4's stock brakes? Hint: it wasn't for looks. Someone at Audi figured out that the B6's stock brakes weren't really designed for a vehicle that heavy. Bottom line is that it's physics that govern all this not your "track experience" at the Nürburgring (since you name drop that **** all the time). All your above claims have done for you is demonstrate your ability to adjust your braking habits to the poor performance of the stock brakes (even WITH your "upgrades"). I know this because that's what I had to do when I went from just stock to Stage II, let alone to the K04 where I had to make some serious modifications to my brake timing. Allow me to explain. You simply can't get the reduction in speed by the quick, firm press of the pedal before entering a corner with the stock brakes in our cars with our modifications (or, as I stated previously, with less modifications). That is how you're supposed to brake before a corner on a track...or so say the professional instructors I've been with who race professionally, but what do they know, right? See, because the car produces more power, the greater speeds you can achieve (oh say coming off a straightaway) before having to brake for that coming corner, hence the need for better braking. Jesus, the brake master cylinder for these cars alone is woefully small for the job it has to do (nevermind the stock calipers, pistons, and rotors), hence the reason it's response is so poor and the pedal has to be damn near the floor to get braking (well-known by all GTI\A3 owners).

My father has his race license through training at PSDS (where you learn to drive the car by actually driving it, not sitting in a classroom listening to someone's bull**** Power Point presentation on apexing corners) and tracks his car up in Denver. He boiled his stock fluid after his first track day in his 997 911 C2S. That was RIGHT after having the car serviced when the brakes were flushed.



> Lastly, and then I'll stop: if you are going to spend the $$ on a steering wheel and are serious about making the car more fun to drive, wait on the wheel and get a competition Haldex controller, it does a lot more for the $$, is simple to install, and requires no coding, or airbag swapping, and will run close to the same amount of money.


I would agree that the money swapping in a TT's steering wheel is better spent on a Haldex controller. Especially is the car's going to see a track. The benefits of a flat bottom steering wheel don't outweigh the benefits of a more track oriented AWD setup.


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## Sleeper_A3 (Nov 2, 2013)

Welcome and congrats on the purchase. I came to the A3 from an M3 myself and the first thing I tried to "fix" is the power disparity --see my sig below for mods I did this year. I got a great deal on a 2009-FWD but couldn't find a deal of any sort on the quattro. I have put about $7K of mods+labor into the A3 already which has now become my daily drive grocery-getter and going-to-work car. (I kept the M3 for weekend duties as I couldn't find the heart to say goodbye.) The last thing I did on my A3 earlier this month is install the HPA Coilovers, which are a version of KW-V1s, and have been very happy with them since the install. 

Since you are coming from a 335i the K04 kit is a must for this car but you will not find the smoothness and linearity of the BMW in the power delivery. By comparison the 2.0T brings on the power rather abruptly even with the K04 kit which IMHO is even smoother than the factory K03 setup.

Enjoy the car and keep us posted on the mods. :thumbup:


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

Sleeper_A3 said:


> Welcome and congrats on the purchase. I came to the A3 from an M3 myself and the first thing I tried to "fix" is the power disparity --see my sig below for mods I did this year. I got a great deal on a 2009-FWD but couldn't find a deal of any sort on the quattro. I have put about $7K of mods+labor into the A3 already which has now become my daily drive grocery-getter and going-to-work car. (I kept the M3 for weekend duties as I couldn't find the heart to say goodbye.) The last thing I did on my A3 earlier this month is install the HPA Coilovers, which are a version of KW-V1s, and have been very happy with them since the install.
> 
> Since you are coming from a 335i the K04 kit is a must for this car but you will not find the smoothness and linearity of the BMW in the power delivery. By comparison the 2.0T brings on the power rather abruptly even with the K04 kit which IMHO is even smoother than the factory K03 setup.
> 
> Enjoy the car and keep us posted on the mods. :thumbup:


The Quattro, I can tell you, helps that "power delivery" feeling a lot compared to a FWD. However, of course a FI'd car will not have the linear-ness of that BMW NA V6.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks everyone. My list looks like the following.

Part Where
APR K04 Turbo Kit	http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Turbocharger/ES2569599/
High Flow Downpipe	http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Exhaust/Downpipe/ES1897184/
S3 Intercooler http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Intake/Intercooler/ES2079244/
Wheels/Tires http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Qu...ys/Alzor_Wheels/18_inch/Square_Set/ES2535691/
TPS Sensors http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Wheels/Tire_Pressure/ES251074/
Spring/Strut Kit http://www.modbargains.com/H_R_Touring_Cup_Kit_Audi_8P_A3_S3.htm
Brake Kit http://www.modbargains.com/StopTech-Stage-1-Brake-Kit-06-09-A3.htm

Really thinking the Haldex Controller would be a great addition. I have to do some research on that.

Is there any point in starting with a Tune first and then going to K04 latter? Or is it just going to cost me more in the long run.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

A3owner said:


> Thanks everyone. My list looks like the following.
> 
> Part Where
> APR K04 Turbo Kit	http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Turbocharger/ES2569599/
> ...


Pass on the S3 intercooler as well as the Alzor wheels.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

davis_449 said:


> The R32 setup is, as you say, "essentially" the same setup as stock, but there's absolutely, positively NO question the braking is DRAMATICALLY improved over stock. That larger piston and larger rotor diameter make a HUGE difference. For what he's going to do with the car, larger brakes are "highly advised" (at least by me and everyone else I know), but definitely not a BBK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never said that the R32 brakes didn't perform better than stock. When talking about it being the same setup, I mean in the way that it works, the ratio of fluid displacement to caliper size, etc. I said that the porsche boxster upgrade was a less expensive, better option, and IMO it is. If you want to add about 20lbs of unsprung weight to your car for braking power, go for it. The 312mm rotor size does limit cooling to some degree, but there are ways around that, too. My comment about the brakes being designed for the car stands. Since we're talking about name dropping, I don't have a PSDS license, but I'm pretty sure the engineers in ingolstadt know exactly what is needed in order to put together a brake setup for these cars in order to meet safety requirements, and prevent themselves from frequent lawsuits. Are they built with a track setup in mind? No. But for someone who intends to track the car a few times a year, maintaining driveability and function is critical. As far as your comparison of A4 / S4 brakes goes, you're comparing something very different to what you recommended. Those use a different MC for that brake setup, as does the R32. The A3 has a MC designed for calipers on 312mm rotors, which is what the porsche boxster calipers are. Is it specifically designed for that caliper? Again, no, but it is much better suited to it than the R32 caliper. You even question the MC in your response, but are suggesting a larger caliper with a larger piston and higher fluid displacement? :what:

The boxster calipers have two pistons per side, which are smaller than the single, large piston in the A3 stock caliper. This allows for faster displacement, which means faster braking. The MC actually doesn't have to work as hard as it does with stock calipers, because it is displacing less fluid. Slapping on some R32 calipers requires more fluid displacement... do you see where I am going with this?

As far as your Dad's track experience, not sure what that has to do with recommended brake mods for an A3, but if you're worried about cooling, then there are three things available that will work with 312mm rotors. 1. Two piece, directionally veined rotors (stoptech also makes a one piece directionally veined setup), 2. Air ducts, and 3. fluid with a higher boiling temp (doesn't cool but reduces the requirement). 

I realize that tone is difficult to "hear" when reading on a forum, but my original response to your comment was not an attack, nor is this one, as yours seems to be. The forum is designed for people to share experiences and enthusiasm for a shared interest in a vehicle, which seems to be lost on you. If my statements about going to my local track (yes, it is the closest one to me) are so offensive, I recommend you not read my comments. I think I've mentioned it fewer than 10 times in the past two years that I've been going there. If I lived in LA, it would be Laguna Seca, or if I lived in New York, it would be watkins glenn. My experience is my experience, and yours is yours.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

crew219 said:


> Pass on the S3 intercooler as well as the Alzor wheels.


^^^ This. I went with an S3 intercooler, and while it works, I ended up getting the APR one later. It is expensive but still probably the best one on the market, and will allow you to go even bigger later if you want.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

crew219 said:


> Pass on the S3 intercooler as well as the Alzor wheels.


Is any other IC plug and play? What is wrong with the Alzor wheels? I did a little research and didn't see anything. (the VMR VB3's on my 335i flaked clear coat like crazy after 8 months of use)


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## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

Find an APR dealer( you have 3 of them) and have them do everything. It may be more expensive at first but doing it wrong makes you pay twice. If you are going to spend money on hp then save your money and buy a wheel with a weight of 1 lb/inch, otherwise just keep your oem


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## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

A3owner said:


> (the VMR VB3's on my 335i flaked clear coat like crazy after 8 months of use)


Congrats on the purchase

Was that on all 4 wheels? Wonder if it's from what MN puts on its roads for snow. I haven't had any clear coat issues with my VMRs and I think I've had mine over a year now.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

npace said:


> I never said that the R32 brakes didn't perform better than stock. When talking about it being the same setup, I mean in the way that it works, the ratio of fluid displacement to caliper size, etc. I said that the porsche boxster upgrade was a less expensive, better option, and IMO it is. If you want to add about 20lbs of unsprung weight to your car for braking power, go for it. The 312mm rotor size does limit cooling to some degree, but there are ways around that, too.
> 
> The boxster calipers have two pistons per side, which are smaller than the single, large piston in the A3 stock caliper. This allows for faster displacement, which means faster braking. The MC actually doesn't have to work as hard as it does with stock calipers, because it is displacing less fluid. Slapping on some R32 calipers requires more fluid displacement... do you see where I am going with this?


No one, not even me, is arguing that the Boxster upgarde isn't well-suited to the car. I considered it when addressing my need for more braking and decided the money wasn't worth it. My suggestions to the OP were shaped around cost vs. benefit. Hence the recommendation of the S3 intercooler and R32 front brakes.



> My comment about the brakes being designed for the car stands. Since we're talking about name dropping, I don't have a PSDS license, *but I'm pretty sure the engineers in ingolstadt know exactly what is needed in order to put together a brake setup for these cars in order to meet safety requirements, and prevent themselves from frequent lawsuits.* Are they built with a track setup in mind? No. But for someone who intends to track the car a few times a year, maintaining driveability and function is critical. As far as your comparison of A4 / S4 brakes goes, you're comparing something very different to what you recommended. Those use a different MC for that brake setup, as does the R32. The A3 has a MC designed for calipers on 312mm rotors, which is what the porsche boxster calipers are. Is it specifically designed for that caliper? Again, no, but it is much better suited to it than the R32 caliper. You even question the MC in your response, but are suggesting a larger caliper with a larger piston and higher fluid displacement? :what:


You can tell me and everyone else it "stands", that doesn't mean it holds any water. What your saying in bold there is that Audi engineers have NEVER made a miscalculation when engineering a car...I'll just let that one be so you can think about what you've just implied. You obviously didn't read my explaination regarding the A4/S4 brakes. That was my evidence supporting my argument that they didn't "engineer" the brakes for the B6 A4 very well the first time considering they didn't use them on the B7, which pretty much the same car.

Also, I am WELL AWARE the B7 A4 has a different MC for it's brakes (and definitely well-suited for the brake setup on that car). That has nothing to do with what I stated concerning the one on the A3 being a poor choice for the A3\GTI considering you have to be on the floor to get brake response with the STOCK SIZE BRAKES, let alone a set R32's thrown on there.



> I realize that tone is difficult to "hear" when reading on a forum, but my original response to your comment was not an attack, nor is this one, as yours seems to be. The forum is designed for people to share experiences and enthusiasm for a shared interest in a vehicle, which seems to be lost on you. If my statements about going to my local track (yes, it is the closest one to me) are so offensive, I recommend you not read my comments. I think I've mentioned it fewer than 10 times in the past two years that I've been going there. If I lived in LA, it would be Laguna Seca, or if I lived in New York, it would be watkins glenn. My experience is my experience, and yours is yours.


Sharing experiences is one thing, stating flat out misinformation like "The ability for the brakes to stop the car is independent of the power the car has." is another. That statement and the one that followed it are completely and utterly untrue not to mention TERRIBLE advice to give to anyone, especially, someone who's new. That's what I consider offensive about your statements.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

krazyboi said:


> Congrats on the purchase
> 
> Was that on all 4 wheels? Wonder if it's from what MN puts on its roads for snow. I haven't had any clear coat issues with my VMRs and I think I've had mine over a year now.


I had them on only during summer months. It only happened on 2 of the wheels. I was going to call them about it, but I didn't have time to deal with it. Then I sold the car.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

davis_449 said:


> Sharing experiences is one thing, stating flat out misinformation like *"The ability for the brakes to stop the car is independent of the power the car has."* is another. That statement and the one that followed it are completely and utterly untrue not to mention TERRIBLE advice to give to anyone, especially, someone who's new. That's what I consider offensive about your statements.


Maybe you're not taking the statement in bold there literally enough, or maybe I'm taking it too literally. The point of that statement is that the 60-0 stopping speed of the car is the same unless the car's weight is drastically increased or reduced. It can be helped by better tires, pads, and fluid, and consistency can be helped with SS lines. Spelled out that way, I'm sure you'll agree, and if you don't, I think you are the one spreading "TERRIBLE" advice, that or you work for a company that sells brakes. 

As for the statement that follows... a car does not get a rating of "good" (the highest available) for having awful brakes that aren't designed for the car. According to Edmunds, the braking time for 60-0 is 107 feet. Look up average braking distances for a car that comes in at, according to the manufacturer, about 3400 lbs (that's with quattro), it is usually between 120 to 150 feet. Going to stage 2 won't change the weight dramatically enough to effect the stopping distance, and realistically, neither will K04 or stage 3, because the added weight of the turbo is offset by the reduced weight of the airbox. I think you didn't understand the statements I made, and for that I apologize. Pedal travel is another issue, and I agree, it sucks. A MC brace would help. 

OP, sorry for derailing your thread. davis, if you want to continue, feel free to shoot me a PM, but I think we're in agreement and don't realize it.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

npace said:


> Maybe you're not taking the statement in bold there literally enough, or maybe I'm taking it too literally. The point of that statement is that the 60-0 stopping speed of the car is the same unless the car's weight is drastically increased or reduced. It can be helped by better tires, pads, and fluid, and consistency can be helped with SS lines. Spelled out that way, I'm sure you'll agree, and if you don't, I think you are the one spreading "TERRIBLE" advice, that or you work for a company that sells brakes.
> 
> As for the statement that follows... a car does not get a rating of "good" (the highest available) for having awful brakes that aren't designed for the car. According to Edmunds, the braking time for 60-0 is 107 feet. Look up average braking distances for a car that comes in at, according to the manufacturer, about 3400 lbs (that's with quattro), it is usually between 120 to 150 feet. Going to stage 2 won't change the weight dramatically enough to effect the stopping distance, and realistically, neither will K04 or stage 3, because the added weight of the turbo is offset by the reduced weight of the airbox. I think you didn't understand the statements I made, and for that I apologize. Pedal travel is another issue, and I agree, it sucks. A MC brace would help.
> 
> OP, sorry for derailing your thread. davis, if you want to continue, feel free to shoot me a PM, but I think we're in agreement and don't realize it.


Yes we are in agreement as long as you realize that, in accordance with your statement (which is true), the faster you're going the more distance you need to decelerate to a certain speed (whether is 150 MPH-50 MPH or 60 MPH-0 MPH is irrelevant). Ergo, the more power your car makes, the better braking you need. Get it now? The faster your car can go, the better brakes it needs. Otherwise, why would any car manufacturer put larger, better brakes on ANY given car? See my point? The A3 with 150 more HP is NO exception to this rule.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

davis_449 said:


> Yes we are in agreement as long as you realize that, in accordance with your statement (which is true), the faster you're going the more distance you need to decelerate to a certain speed (whether is 150 MPH-50 MPH or 60 MPH-0 MPH is irrelevant). Ergo, the more power your car makes, the better braking you need. Get it now? The faster your car can go, the better brakes it needs. Otherwise, why would any car manufacturer put larger, better brakes on ANY given car? See my point? The A3 with 150 more HP is NO exception to this rule.


Apples and oranges. We were talking about two different aspects of the same thing. No biggie.


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## easthk (Oct 10, 2004)

Sounds like a good start. Couple suggestions:

- Hit the manufacturer's sales. Most of the winter sales are over, but spring sales kick in around April if you can wait that long. Plenty of used stuff on here too.

- Would recommend swapping in R8 ignition coils. H2 Sport or ECS has them- they're cheap like $16 each. Part of misfire prevention. 

- K04 is great bang for the buck- go for it. Or maybe a Loba LO400, essentially a modified K04 (GIAC has software I think)- would be great to see feedback for A3 quattro on a Loba! Note that downpipe selection may affect software choice. APR has different files if you keep stock downpipe or go high flow cat/catless. Unitronic K04 software is also a good option- many folks prefer it, but I'm happy with APR- no issues. Plenty of threads on here debating options. State inspection was a consideration for me since MA does OBD scans for emissions/O2 sensor readiness, which impacted software choice. 

- I did a couple track days on stock brakes w/ stage 1 software. Doable for baseline reference, but not all that safe or fast. Pedal feel gets wooden quickly and then mushy afterwards, plus scary long braking distances were necessary- tires and suspension are big factors of course, but I never felt secure with stock brakes. Ultimately I went for more clamping force which has been great w/ K04- went with porsche boxster (brembos) and also considered Stoptech st40 since 17" wheels can clear these setups with offset/spoke shape. Might need spacers depending on wheel choice- I ended up needing 3mm spacers to clear Hartmann 18x8 et 45 (summer) wheels, but no spacers needed with S4 Avus 17x7 et 38 (snows) and TD Pro 1.2 17x8 et 45 (track).

- if you figure out how to fit 255 wide tires without rubbing, please let us know!


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

npace said:


> Apples and oranges. We were talking about two different aspects of the same thing. No biggie.


*Bottom line:* he will _need _better brakes. That's not up for debate with anyone that has a brain or experience behind the wheel on a track. With a K04 and 355 HP in a car that was designed to haul around 3500 lbs. with 200 HP, it's not any less of a requirement on the street. My "oranges" outweigh your "apples". You get\got by with the "upgraded" OEM setup because you adjusted your driving style to match your lack of braking ability (as did I). That doesn't mean you didn't _need_ the extra braking. I'd bet all the money I have if you ran the 'ring with better brakes on that power setup, you'd turn a better lap time. For all intents and purposes, I guess they shouldn't have upgraded the RS3's brakes...they should've just left them alone. I mean, **** they don't serve any purpose, so why do it? I'm sure the Quattro GMbh engineers had their reasons.

Like everyone else in this game, once the power comes, he will adjust his driving style to match (i.e. foot to the floor) and will need the braking. Stainless steel lines, pads, fluid, fairy dust, magic beans, and bull**** _won't_ cut it. They _don't_ cut it. Don't believe me? I'll post the ****ing pictures of my old "upgraded" pads (yes, I did the same things you did including RBF 600 fluid) scorched halfway through on a Stage II setup, properly driving a car. The brake fade was terrible.

OP, plan on get bigger brakes when\if you go K04.


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## mfractal (May 16, 2005)

davis_449 said:


> *Bottom line:* he will _need _better brakes. That's not up for debate with anyone that has a brain or experience behind the wheel on a track. With a K04 and 355 HP in a car that was designed to haul around 3500 lbs. with 200 HP, it's not any less of a requirement on the street. My "oranges" outweigh your "apples". You get\got by with the "upgraded" OEM setup because you adjusted your driving style to match your lack of braking ability (as did I). That doesn't mean you didn't _need_ the extra braking. I'd bet all the money I have if you ran the 'ring with better brakes on that power setup, you'd turn a better lap time. For all intents and purposes, I guess they shouldn't have upgraded the RS3's brakes...they should've just left them alone. I mean, **** they don't serve any purpose, so why do it? I'm sure the Quattro GMbh engineers had their reasons.
> 
> Like everyone else in this game, once the power comes, he will adjust his driving style to match (i.e. foot to the floor) and will need the braking. Stainless steel lines, pads, fluid, fairy dust, magic beans, and bull**** _won't_ cut it. They _don't_ cut it. Don't believe me? I'll post the ****ing pictures of my old "upgraded" pads (yes, I did the same things you did including RBF 600 fluid) scorched halfway through on a Stage II setup, properly driving a car. The brake fade was terrible.
> 
> OP, plan on get bigger brakes when\if you go K04.


angry much ?


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

APR K04 kit ordered and being installed. I am wondering if they have mapping for stock dp/exhaust on 91 Octane gas.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

mfractal said:


> angry much ?


^^^ this. And no. Re-read what was posted. I wanted to let this go two posts ago, but you didn't. I never said it wasn't a worthwhile upgrade, and that it shouldn't be done. The _need_ for any upgrade is debatable, and I'm not going to try to re-explain all of this to someone whose response is to attack an alternative viewpoint by questioning intelligence rather than presenting facts. I will try to respond to each point of your last post (minus the needless insults). My point was that brakes, any brakes on any car, have the stopping power that they have regardless of the HP of the car. Should a brake upgrade be purchased to compliment a power upgrade? Yes. Do the stock brakes suddenly have less stopping power because of the upgrade? No, unless the weight of the car is changed. The rate of deceleration is variable, but not because of the car's power, unless you are on throttle while braking, which is basically what I stated before. And if you think pads, fluid, and lines don't make a difference, well, all I can tell you is that you probably understand physics less than you think you do, because different compounds in pads produce different forces of friction, which determine how fast (or slow) a car stops. Increasing rotor and pad size increases surface area, which _can_ increase stopping power, but only if appropriate compounds in pads are selected. As far as lines go, ss lines produce less flex when the pedal is depressed than rubber does. This translates to more / faster fluid displacement. And with fluid, higher boiling points = less likely to get gas (air) in the system. Better tires translate to more surface grip and friction on the road, which also changes /alters ability to stop. RBF 600 fluid and pics of your worn out pads don't prove (or disprove) that you are or aren't driving properly, or that the brakes magically stop at a different rate because you put in a K04. Brake fade, BTW, has a lot more to do with heat (caused by friction) and can be exacerbated by good pads (more friction = more heat). Again, larger rotors can help, but the reality is that ducts and directional-veined rotors will do more for cooling and fade prevention, as these are active measures, whereas increasing rotor size is passive, because while a larger rotor dissipates heat faster, more friction is produced (the other two methods result in cooling alone, without an increase in friction). I think you can understand all of this, but if not, please PM me and I will try to explain it better. You may think it is fairy dust, but people often criticize what they don't understand. 

In fact, there are threads on the forum that talk about why a bigger brake setup is not always a good idea. 

Lastly, when you decide to respond to this, as I'm sure you will, remember don't blame me, blame science. eace:


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

A3owner said:


> APR K04 kit ordered and being installed. I am wondering if they have mapping for stock dp/exhaust on 91 Octane gas.


Awesome. Let us know how it works out.


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## Turn8 (Oct 31, 2008)

^^^^
+1

Good choice!

Mike


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Turn8 said:


> ^^^^
> +1
> 
> Good choice!
> ...


How do you like your ST Coilovers?


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I ventured off the path today a little. I ordered some all weather floormats. 

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Interior/Floor_Mats/ES7892/


Thinking about ordering a IC. Not sure if I go Godspeed or S3?

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Intake/Intercooler/ES2079244/
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GODSPEED-06...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c797271e8&vxp=mtr


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

A3owner said:


> I ventured off the path today a little. I ordered some all weather floormats.
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Interior/Floor_Mats/ES7892/
> 
> ...


Save up for an APR IC.

http://www.goapr.com/products/testing-mkv-intercooler.html


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

crew219 said:


> Save up for an APR IC.
> 
> http://www.goapr.com/products/testing-mkv-intercooler.html


I get it, but I am thinking I would might be better throwing more money at brakes/suspension then an APR intercooler. I have not figured out what my final budget will be for mods. between 6-9k Would it be better to do nothing with the IC then get an S3 or GodSpeed?


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I get it, but I am thinking I would might be better throwing more money at brakes/suspension then an intercooler. I have not figured out what my final budget will be for mods.


Have you chipped the car yet?


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> Have you chipped the car yet?


I have not. I honestly have driven it less then 50 miles since I got it last Tuesday. My Honda Pilot is way better in the snow then the A3 with Continental ExtremeContact DWS on it. It seriously will not stop. Those tires are horrible in the MN winter. 

I ordered the APR K04 kit and am having Nur Technik install it when it comes in. I figured I would bite the bullet on it right away since I figured I wouldn't be happy until I did it. (coming from Juice Boxed 335i)


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## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

A3owner said:


> I get it, but I am thinking I would might be better throwing more money at brakes/suspension then an intercooler. I have not figured out what my final budget will be for mods.


Man, not another show before go kinda guy. always throw you money at horses first. Since you are going to an APR dealer, ask them for help


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

tcardio said:


> Man, not another show before go kinda guy. always throw you money at horses first. Since you are going to an APR dealer, ask them for help


APR dealer said Ic is better then an DP/Exhaust for my plans. It sounds like a I am going to want brakes since they are about going faster longer. It looks like the 2 things I didn't budget for when I started this thread where haldex controller and bigger brakes. 


Which gets me to. What are the limitations of these cars over 20-30 minutes of track time? Will I need an oil cooler?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

A3owner said:


> APR dealer said Ic is better then an DP/Exhaust for my plans. It sounds like a I am going to want brakes since they are about going faster longer. It looks like the 2 things I didn't budget for when I started this thread where haldex controller and bigger brakes.
> 
> 
> Which gets me to. What are the limitations of these cars over 20-30 minutes of track time? Will I need an oil cooler?


I used to be really concerned about an oil cooler, but for your setup with the K04, it shouldn't be necessary, especially for 20-30 min of track time, personally I haven't needed one, and you should be okay unless you start doing some more lengthy events. Also, I may be wrong, but I don't think you can do K04 without a downpipe. FWIW, I've been running the stage 3 setup with the S3 intercooler. It works, and I haven't had heat soak _yet_, but I went ahead and got the APR intercooler. Long term, you'll probably end up getting it anyway, and it is worth the investment. That said, I happen to have an S3 intercooler I'd be willing to part with....


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## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

A3owner said:


> APR dealer said Ic is better then an DP/Exhaust for my plans.


Now your talkin


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## Fellow Gaucho (Aug 3, 2011)

npace said:


> Also, I may be wrong, but I don't think you can do K04 without a downpipe.


This is possible. APR just adjusts the software to output less power. I don't know what kind of numbers you get without a downpipe (APR doesn't list them), but from what I have seen on their website and other members of this forum, K04 setups really should have downpipes.

I know Gunkata on these forums did this for a bit, but then eventually got a downpipe.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Fellow Gaucho said:


> This is possible. APR just adjusts the software to output less power. I don't know what kind of numbers you get without a downpipe (APR doesn't list them), but from what I have seen on their website and other members of this forum, K04 setups really should have downpipes.
> 
> I know Gunkata on these forums did this for a bit, but then eventually got a downpipe.


Interesting.... I was thinking a cheaper way to do it (cheaper than an aftermarket downpipe) would be to source a cat off of ebay.de from an S3. Probably not as much flow as aftermarket, but it's designed to go on a K04 and will have more flow than the stocker off of the A3.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

tcardio said:


> Man, not another show before go kinda guy. always throw you money at horses first. Since you are going to an APR dealer, ask them for help


You did read that his K04 kit is already on order, right?



> Interesting.... I was thinking a cheaper way to do it (cheaper than an aftermarket downpipe) would be to source a cat off of ebay.de from an S3. Probably not as much flow as aftermarket, but it's designed to go on a K04 and will have more flow than the stocker off of the A3.


How could this be cheaper (after you buy it, lose serious money in the exchange rate, and then have to pay VAT when it hits customs) than ordering a DP from a performance tuner here in the States?



> This is possible. APR just adjusts the software to output less power. I don't know what kind of numbers you get without a downpipe (APR doesn't list them), but from what I have seen on their website and other members of this forum, *K04 setups really should have downpipes.*


^This.:thumbup:


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

"Really thinking I will just do the DP now since they will be in there.


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## Turn8 (Oct 31, 2008)

A3owner said:


> How do you like your ST Coilovers?


My review is a little 'long-winded' but, check out post #25;
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5700906-Turn8-s-A3-Build-Thread&highlight=s2t

The short version is yes, I like them. I recommend them. And, the ST's are a great value for the money.

Mike


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

A3owner said:


> "Really thinking I will just do the DP now since they will be in there.


DP is the best idea. 



davis_449 said:


> How could this be cheaper (after you buy it, lose serious money in the exchange rate, and then have to pay VAT when it hits customs) than ordering a DP from a performance tuner here in the States?


Davis, if an S3 cat is 120 Euro ($156), and then you pay international shipping (about 50 Euro, but for argument's sake let's say 75, or about $98), you've spent a total of $254. I'd say that's less than the $600 - $900 most aftermarket companies charge. Oh, and VAT only applies to EU citizens. That's how.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Turn8 said:


> My review is a little 'long-winded' but, check out post #25;
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5700906-Turn8-s-A3-Build-Thread&highlight=s2t
> 
> The short version is yes, I like them. I recommend them. And, the ST's are a great value for the money.
> ...


I am really considering them after reading your write up. I think I tried 4-6 suspension setups on my 93 Toyota MR2 Turbo before getting KW V3's. They were awesome.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

> Davis, if an S3 cat is 120 Euro ($156), and then you pay international shipping (about 50 Euro, but for argument's sake let's say 75, or about $98), you've spent a total of $254. I'd say that's less than the $600 - $900 most aftermarket companies charge. Oh, and VAT only applies to EU citizens. That's how.


I stand corrected on VAT. That's true. We don't pay taxes on most imports here, especially purchases like we are discussing. However, this is all subject to whether or not you would equal or gain from a S3's DP\cat over a stock one that comes on a K03 equipped stateside vehicle. I'm gonna go with "I bet you wouldn't" and, thus, would be flushing $254 down the drain.


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## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

davis_449 said:


> You did read that his K04 kit is already on order, right?


Why not get the engine taken care of prior to brakes and suspension. Like I said just bring his whip to the local APR dealer and open the wallet and ask for a little KY before the bill comes. I guess I'm just an engine then brakes/suspension kinda guy


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

davis_449 said:


> I stand corrected on VAT. That's true. We don't pay taxes on most imports here, especially purchases like we are discussing. However, this is all subject to whether or not you would equal or gain from a S3's DP\cat over a stock one that comes on a K03 equipped stateside vehicle. I'm gonna go with "I bet you wouldn't" and, thus, would be flushing $254 down the drain.


I wouldn't know. It would require research for sure, but it was just a thought.


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## Sleeper_A3 (Nov 2, 2013)

crew219 said:


> Save up for an APR IC.
> 
> http://www.goapr.com/products/testing-mkv-intercooler.html


This ^^^^. Most of those who went with the S3 unit eventually replaced it with the APR FMIC. crew is just trying to save you the extra step in the process :laugh:


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Waffling a little bit. Try to stay true to what my initial goals are and not get into the rabbit hole. I want to keep the engine looking as stock and quiet as possible. Smooth power is prefered of peak power. (she loved the 335i) Quiet enough and smooth enough that the wife will still drive it. 

APR K04 kit is ordered. 

I am worried the DP going to make it loud and more abrupt power? It certainly will take away the stock appearance. I think this is why when I talked to the APR rep we thought IC was the way to go. Thoughts? 

All this from looking at a cheap Raceland DP and Intake.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

> Why not get the engine taken care of prior to brakes and suspension. Like I said just bring his whip to the local APR dealer and open the wallet and ask for a little KY before the bill comes. I guess I'm just an engine then brakes/suspension kinda guy


What are you talking about? He ordered the K04 kit. What part of "taking care of the engine" does that not apply to? Hell that's, IMHO, 80% of "taking care of the engine", especially for someone who JUST got the car.



npace said:


> I wouldn't know. It would require research for sure, but it was just a thought.


I don't exactly know either. However, as I stated in my post, I am willing to bet that there isn't a gain to be had IF it bolts up properly in the first place. I say stay on the safe side and spend the money for one from a tuner in the U.S. rather than chance flushing money.



> This ^^^^. Most of those who went with the S3 unit eventually replaced it with the APR FMIC. crew is just trying to save you the extra step in the process


For the record, I agree, obviously, with all posts regarding getting the APR FMIC instead of the S3. I went straight for the APR one on the same advice from my shop.



> Waffling a little bit. Try to stay true to what my initial goals are and not get into the rabbit hole. I want to keep the engine looking as stock and quiet as possible. Smooth power is prefered of peak power. (she loved the 335i) Quiet enough and smooth enough that the wife will still drive it.
> 
> APR K04 kit is ordered.
> 
> ...


You'll want to stay away from ANY intake, based on your posts. All of them will all make a lot of noise I'm sure you don't want. Also, having said what you have here, APR RSC or Milltek are your only options for exhaust. Those are the ONLY systems I know of that will fit your needs\wants here regarding sound and drone. APR RSC is probably the better of those two for you. That said, I don't think the power with or without a DP is "abrupt". I will say power delivery will never be as smooth, no matter what you do, as a 335i. A downpipe is not going to dramatically change the appearance of anything.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> You'll want to stay away from ANY intake, based on your posts. All of them will all make a lot of noise I'm sure you don't want. Also, having said what you have here, APR RSC or Milltek are your only options for exhaust. Those are the ONLY systems I know of that will fit your needs\wants here regarding sound and drone. APR RSC is probably the better of those two for you. That said, I don't think the power with or without a DP is "abrupt". I will say power delivery will never be as smooth, no matter what you do, as a 335i. A downpipe is not going to dramatically change the appearance of anything.


If I can be as close to a Golf R delivery I will be pretty happy. I have seen some videos of people with the kits in GTI's and it has me a little worried. I think most of that is the FWD issue.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> If I can be as close to a Golf R delivery I will be pretty happy. I have seen some videos of people with the kits in GTI's and it has me a little worried. I think most of that is the FWD issue.


Ok, thanks for the clarification on power delivery expectations. In that case, DP is not a worry. You'll be fine. I have extensive time in BOTH cars. The Golf R went very quickly from stock to Stage II+ (Intake, Turboback Exhaust, APR FMIC, APR HPFP) to Stage III. I drove it all the way through it's transformations at every stage and I would've taken it Stage II+ on up. The 4Motion (Quattro) does wonders to control the power delivery on this chassis. Even at Stage III that car was awesome to drive. Very smooth. FYI, Stage II (Intake and TBE) in the TSI with an upgraded FMIC is about the same as a Golf R stock.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Research has me checking out the following sites:

esctuning.com - My goto place - I worked with them when I had my BMW
goapr.com - KO4 Turob Kit
raceland.com - Interesting DP for $179 - said it will work on quattro - super cheap coilovers I will avoid
www.autuning.com - hallow clubsport sway bars - TSI Borg Warner K04 Turbo Upgrade Kit - some good light weight wheel options - Golf R FMIC
eurosportacc.com - Used them back in the day for my GTI's. (Interesting K04 kit)
modbargains.com - bought my VB3's here for my BMW - have lots of parts
nurtechnik.com - APR dealer I choose to work with

Like this build:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/510874-Gunkata-s-2-0T-K04-Quattro-Build/page1


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> Ok, thanks for the clarification on power delivery expectations. In that case, DP is not a worry. You'll be fine. I have extensive time in BOTH cars. The Golf R went very quickly from stock to Stage II+ (Intake, Turboback Exhaust, APR FMIC, APR HPFP) to Stage III. I drove it all the way through it's transformations at every stage and I would've taken it Stage II+ on up. The 4Motion (Quattro) does wonders to control the power delivery on this chassis. Even at Stage III that car was awesome to drive. Very smooth. FYI, Stage II (Intake and TBE) in the TSI with an upgraded FMIC is about the same as a Golf R stock.


So what stage is just a K04 kit? Looking at the APR site it looks like it is between a Stage II and Stage III.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> So what stage is just a K04 kit? Looking at the APR site it looks like it is between a Stage II and Stage III.


It used to be considered a "Stage III" modification, but according to APR's badging (they make badges for Stages of their tuning for your car), it's its own Stage now.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

davis_449 said:


> It used to be considered a "Stage III" modification, but according to APR's badging (they make badges for Stages of their tuning for your car), it's its own Stage now.


K04 was never considered Stage III by APR. In fact they mostly resisted getting into it on the 1.8ts.


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## kharma (Jan 2, 2004)

Really happy with my B&B downpipe with stock catback, most people who ride in my car don't know it's there unless I REALLY get on it. They used to make the pieces for APR, mine even came in an inside-out APR box. http://www.lmperformance.com/560564


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

crew219 said:


> K04 was never considered Stage III by APR. In fact they mostly resisted getting into it on the 1.8ts.


It really used to be called, by APR on their website, "Stage III K04" on the 1.8T's. They changed all of their designations on their K04 upgrade turbo kits to just "K04" in the last few years. They didn't resist getting into the 1.8T's. Hell, that's where most of their "experience" in tuning came from. Look:http://www.goapr.com/products/pics_video_tvs3.html. Those are time slips from their Stage III 1.8T kit from 12 yrs. ago. VW\Audi started with the 1.8T engine here in the U.S. in 1997. APR was founded in 1997 and I would bet dollars to donuts those 2002 time slips are "updated" from when they first developed\released their Stage III kit for it. Where did you come up with this info.?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

davis_449 said:


> It really used to be called, by APR on their website, "Stage III K04" on the 1.8T's. They changed all of their designations on their K04 upgrade turbo kits to just "K04" in the last few years. They didn't resist getting into the 1.8T's. Hell, that's where most of their "experience" in tuning came from. Look:http://www.goapr.com/products/pics_video_tvs3.html. Those are time slips from their Stage III 1.8T kit from 12 yrs. ago. VW\Audi started with the 1.8T engine here in the U.S. in 1997. APR was founded in 1997 and I would bet dollars to donuts those 2002 time slips are "updated" from when they first developed\released their Stage III kit for it. Where did you come up with this info.?


No it was the S3 K04 upgrade . . . . because the K04 is from the S3. It was never called the Stage III K04

http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans20t_k04.html

wayback machine to how it looked when the page was put up 

http://web.archive.org/web/20100102233508/http://goapr.com/products/turbo_trans20t_k04.html

Your reading comprehension is off. I stated: "they mostly resisted getting into it [K04] on the 1.8ts."

Dave


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

crew219 said:


> No it was the S3 K04 upgrade . . . . because the K04 is from the S3. It was never called the Stage III K04
> 
> http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans20t_k04.html
> 
> ...


I was talking about APR's reference to the K04 turbo kit upgrade previous to the 8P A3 (on the 1.8T engine for the VW MKIV's\Audi B5\B6 A4's WAY back) being referred to as "Stage III K04". Unfortunately the Wayback Machine doesn't have a record for the page previous to 2009, so I can't prove it to you, but they did. Remember, the term "K04" has been used for SEVERAL Borg Warner turbos of varying sizes on different makes and models of cars throughout the last decade. VAG is NOT the only manufacturer who uses these Borg Warner turbos and refers to them as "K04" turbos (Volvo and Mazda come to mind here). You are right concerning the reference of the K04 turbo kit for the 2.0T FSI\TSI\TFSI in that they have never have used the "Stage III K04" label, but you ARE wrong in that they have used "Stage III" to refer to the K04 upgrade before.



> Your reading comprehension is off. I stated: "they *mostly *resisted getting into it [K04] on the 1.8ts."
> 
> Dave


My reading comprehension is totally on the money and your understanding of APR's history is horribly wrong. Did you read my last post? Where does the word "mostly" apply there? They couldn't have "mostly" avoided the 1.8T if that's what they started out modifying and made their ****ing name from. And I'm the one with reading comprehension problems?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

davis_449 said:


> I was talking about APR's reference to the K04 turbo kit upgrade previous to the 8P A3 (on the 1.8T engine for the VW MKIV's\Audi B5\B6 A4's WAY back) being referred to as "Stage III K04". Unfortunately the Wayback Machine doesn't have a record for the page previous to 2009, so I can't prove it to you, but they did. Remember, the term "K04" has been used for SEVERAL Borg Warner turbos of varying sizes on different makes and models of cars throughout the last decade. VAG is NOT the only manufacturer who uses these Borg Warner turbos and refers to them as "K04" turbos (Volvo and Mazda come to mind here). You are right concerning the reference of the K04 turbo kit for the 2.0T FSI\TSI\TFSI in that they have never have used the "Stage III K04" label, but you ARE wrong in that they have used "Stage III" to refer to the K04 upgrade before.
> 
> 
> My reading comprehension is totally on the money and your understanding of APR's history is horribly wrong. Did you read my last post? Where does the word "mostly" apply there? They couldn't have "mostly" avoided the 1.8T if that's what they started out modifying and made their ****ing name from. And I'm the one with reading comprehension problems?


Davis, you are a moron. 

APR resisted putting out the k04 upgrade for the 1.8t. They did not think that it was worth it given that the K03S had the same size impeller as the k04. 

Stage III was released sometime before this date in 2002.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020602084039/http://goapr.com/products/index.html

K04 kits didn't show up until 2004.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040714063611/http://www.goapr.com/VW/products/index.html

It was called:



APR said:


> *APR Transverse K04 Kit*
> 
> No dates were ever given and many said it would never happen, but APR is proud to release our K04 upgrade kit for the transversely mounted VW's. Our kit includes the K04 turbo, the compressor inlet O-ring, four exhaust studs, one manifold to turbo gasket, and one turbo to downturn gasket. This kit is a straightfoward turbo swap that makes a big difference in the power output of the car.


You can continue to "participate" in this thread and make a laughingstock out of yourself (which I'm quite sure you will), or maybe save some face and stop putting out misinformation by leaving. Either way, your move.


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## SilverSquirrel (Jul 24, 2006)

opcorn:
ibtl


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

> Davis, you are a moron.
> 
> APR resisted putting out the k04 upgrade for the 1.8t. They did not think that it was worth it given that the K03S had the same size impeller as the k04.
> 
> ...


OK, you win. You're right. I can admit when I am wrong. It was probably my mechanic, an APR dealer since 2001, that gave me that reference I heard so much.
Many tuners used to refer to it that way as OEMPlus, incorrectly, still does: http://www.oemplus.com/turbo-kit-stage-iii-k04-20t-p-2892.html
So, in short, point taken.:thumbup:



> You can continue to "participate" in this thread and make a laughingstock out of yourself (which I'm quite sure you will), or maybe save some face and stop putting out misinformation by leaving. Either way, your move.


As for this post. You can go **** yourself. I have provided PLENTY of great information in this thread:

My First Post was on topic and sound advice as I do have A LOT of experience with APR and their VAG products.



> Did you pick the right car? That's arguable to many, even me. Based on what I wanted to do with my car, I think you did. Now you just need to pick and, more importantly, execute the right mods.
> 
> My Thoughts on Mods:
> 
> ...


You have Stage III, go on and tell me I should back off this argument:


> Bottom line: he will need better brakes. That's not up for debate with anyone that has a brain or experience behind the wheel on a track. With a K04 and 355 HP in a car that was designed to haul around 3500 lbs. with 200 HP, it's not any less of a requirement on the street. My "oranges" outweigh your "apples". You get\got by with the "upgraded" OEM setup because you adjusted your driving style to match your lack of braking ability (as did I). That doesn't mean you didn't need the extra braking. I'd bet all the money I have if you ran the 'ring with better brakes on that power setup, you'd turn a better lap time. For all intents and purposes, I guess they shouldn't have upgraded the RS3's brakes...they should've just left them alone. I mean, **** they don't serve any purpose, so why do it? I'm sure the Quattro GMbh engineers had their reasons.
> 
> Like everyone else in this game, once the power comes, he will adjust his driving style to match (i.e. foot to the floor) and will need the braking. Stainless steel lines, pads, fluid, fairy dust, magic beans, and bull**** won't cut it. They don't cut it. Don't believe me? I'll post the ****ing pictures of my old "upgraded" pads (yes, I did the same things you did including RBF 600 fluid) scorched halfway through on a Stage II setup, properly driving a car. The brake fade was terrible.
> 
> OP, plan on get bigger brakes when\if you go K04.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I guess I can sell my A3 now. 

http://www.edmunds.com/auto-shows/d...oit-auto-show-2015-volkswagen-golf-r-faq.html


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I guess I can sell my A3 now.
> 
> http://www.edmunds.com/auto-shows/d...oit-auto-show-2015-volkswagen-golf-r-faq.html


Do it. Honestly, I bought the A3 for the same reason you did. I wanted a Golf R with a DSG. This was in Feb. 2011. If I could've obtained one then when I needed to get a new car (it was more than time to trade the B7 A4 and I had a buyer on the line), I would've bought one. Next thing I know, my buddy goes and buys a Golf R shortly after I bought the A3.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> Do it. Honestly, I bought the A3 for the same reason you did. I wanted a Golf R with a DSG. This was in Feb. 2011. If I could've obtained one then when I needed to get a new car (it was more than time to trade the B7 A4 and I had a buyer on the line), I would've bought one. Next thing I know, my buddy goes and buys a Golf R shortly after I bought the A3.


I wish I wouldn't have ordered the K04 kit. I could selling it with it on for 16.5k for a 2009 Audi A3 Quattro with 66k.


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

A3owner said:


> I wish I wouldn't have ordered the K04 kit. I could selling it with it on for 16.5k for a 2009 Audi A3 Quattro with 66k.


Bring it up north.

When I bought my A3 last year a 2009 Quattro with 55k miles sold for 30 grand. 

The R would be awesome, but something about the A3 has a nice allure and well doesn't just look like a golf. I like my A3. No one has them.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

davis_449 said:


> OK, you win. You're right. I can admit when I am wrong. It was probably my mechanic, an APR dealer since 2001, that gave me that reference I heard so much.
> Many tuners used to refer to it that way as OEMPlus, incorrectly, still does: http://www.oemplus.com/turbo-kit-stage-iii-k04-20t-p-2892.html
> So, in short, point taken.:thumb up:


Yes . . . OEMPlus is showing that for an A4 . . . and the picture clearly says S3 conversion. 





davis_449 said:


> As for this post. You can go **** yourself. I have provided PLENTY of great information in this thread:
> 
> My First Post was on topic and sound advice as I do have A LOT of experience with APR and their VAG products.
> 
> ...


You've pretty much just bickered with npace about needing brakes. Several times he and others have completely agreed with the notion of needing brakes, just differed on the execution of how to do the brake upgrade. Your unwillingness to see things anything other than your way led to lots of unnecessary arguing on the same exact point. 

Cut the crap. No one cares.:laugh:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Ponto said:


> Bring it up north.
> 
> When I bought my A3 last year a 2009 Quattro with 55k miles sold for 30 grand.
> 
> The R would be awesome, but something about the A3 has a nice allure and well doesn't just look like a golf. I like my A3. No one has them.


The interior quality of the R seems to suffer. Harder plastics being used on the door cards and cheaper feeling leather. It seems like everyone with an R seems to upgrade to the A3 shift boot. :laugh:

The new R just seems exceptionally boring to me. It looks like there'll be more electronic nanny aids which can't be fully disabled (from reviews of the GTI).


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

crew219 said:


> Yes . . . OEMPlus is showing that for an A4 . . . and the picture clearly says S3 conversion.


I know, that was my point there.:thumbup:





> You've pretty much just bickered with npace about needing brakes. Several times he and others have completely agreed with the notion of needing brakes, just differed on the execution of how to do the brake upgrade. Your unwillingness to see things anything other than your way led to lots of unnecessary arguing on the same exact point.
> 
> Cut the crap. No one cares.:laugh:


No we were actually arguing two different things. He has a different "view" on why one needs brakes that I (and many others) feel is severely misguided. He was claiming the fact that the vehicle's weight isn't changing means you don't need to upgrade the brakes when adding significantly more power to the car. The stock ones are adequate. I was arguing that weight is a factor, indeed, and you _need _to upgrade the brakes because the higher speeds you can achieve, the more braking power you need to stop that weight due to the fact that stopping distance increases the faster you go. We all know what happens when you have more power...you USE it. It will cause your driving habits to change, you WILL go faster in more situations than you used to, and thus more better braking will be _needed_. My favorite part was when he cited Audi engineers' adequate provisioning of braking for the A3 and that nothing further was needed for the weight of the vehicle. Then I countered with the B6-B7 brake changeover comparison and the fact that the S3 and RS3 (essentially A3's with with more power and no more weight added) having upgraded brakes and repeated his statement of "The Audi engineers had their reasons", but got NO retort. Apparently, they agree with me: More Power = Need for better braking.

P.S. You say no one cares. Well I do. I don't think anyone should be given advice like npace was giving to the OP considering what he is going to do to his car.



> The interior quality of the R seems to suffer. Harder plastics being used on the door cards and cheaper feeling leather. It seems like everyone with an R seems to upgrade to the A3 shift boot.
> 
> The new R just seems exceptionally boring to me. It looks like there'll be more electronic nanny aids which can't be fully disabled (from reviews of the GTI).


I don't feel like it suffers at all. I think it, in many ways, looks nicer and more high tech. But to each his\her own.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

davis_449 said:


> No we were actually arguing two different things. He has a different "view" on why one needs brakes that I (and many others) feel is severely misguided. He was claiming the fact that the vehicle's weight isn't changing means you don't need to upgrade the brakes when adding significantly more power to the car. The stock ones are adequate. I was arguing that weight is a factor, indeed, and you _need _to upgrade the brakes because the higher speeds you can achieve, the more braking power you need to stop that weight due to the fact that stopping distance increases the faster you go. We all know what happens when you have more power...you USE it. It will cause your driving habits to change, you WILL go faster in more situations than you used to, and thus more better braking will be _needed_. My favorite part was when he cited Audi engineers' adequate provisioning of braking for the A3 and that nothing further was needed for the weight of the vehicle. Then I countered with the B6-B7 brake changeover comparison and the fact that the S3 and RS3 (essentially A3's with with more power and no more weight added) having upgraded brakes and repeated his statement of "The Audi engineers had their reasons", but got NO retort. Apparently, they agree with me: More Power = Need for better braking.
> 
> P.S. You say no one cares. Well I do. I don't think anyone should be given advice like npace was giving to the OP considering what he is going to do to his car.
> 
> ...


Clearly, you need to go back and re-read all the crap you wrote, and look at what I wrote. As suggested earlier, you should improve your reading comprehension skills. Once again, the "need" for an upgrade, any upgrade to any part of the car, is arguable. What I stated was that stopping power is independent of the power in a car's engine, and you argued that. I went on to explain why your assumptions were misguided, and you didn't respond. This was after I tried to let it go with the apples and oranges analogy, and you continued to push the issue. And I never stated that "nothing was needed" you made that up. My "retort" to your comparison talked about safety ratings and 60-0 times on the A3 (not the A4, S4, or RS4), which you basically decided were irrelevant. Your ability to add 1+1 and somehow get 5 when everyone else gets 2 is the problem. Please re-read, and / or learn what words in the English language mean. You are the only person taking offense when someone has a different opinion about needed mods than yours. Or, as Dave suggested, you can continue to post, as we have all seen, and bring more needless bickering to an otherwise good section of the forum. I think we're all done with this......

OP, I'm sorry that your quest for answers has resulted in this BS. Some great advice.... if you want good technical answers about modding your car, the best people on the A3 8P section are (in no particular order) Crew (Dave), silversquirrel, JRutter, and Jbrehm, as well as a few others whose screen names I can't recall.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

npace said:


> Clearly, you need to go back and re-read all the crap you wrote, and look at what I wrote. As suggested earlier, you should improve your reading comprehension skills. Once again, the "need" for an upgrade, any upgrade to any part of the car, is arguable. What I stated was that stopping power is independent of the power in a car's engine, and you argued that. I went on to explain why your assumptions were misguided, and you didn't respond. This was after I tried to let it go with the apples and oranges analogy, and you continued to push the issue. And I never stated that "nothing was needed" you made that up. My "retort" to your comparison talked about safety ratings and 60-0 times on the A3 (not the A4, S4, or RS4), which you basically decided were irrelevant. Your ability to add 1+1 and somehow get 5 when everyone else gets 2 is the problem. Please re-read, and / or learn what words in the English language mean. You are the only person taking offense when someone has a different opinion about needed mods than yours. Or, as Dave suggested, you can continue to post, as we have all seen, and bring more needless bickering to an otherwise good section of the forum. I think we're all done with this......


Yeah,


> *I'm pretty sure the engineers in ingolstadt know exactly what is needed in order to put together a brake setup for these cars in order to meet safety requirements*


you did. 

I didn't make anything up regarding your comments. Anyone who read any of your posts, especially what's quoted right there, would be lead to the conclusion that you think they're adequate, regardless, in ANY scenario save for a few modifications like pads, lines, fluid, and fairy dust (which don't cut it on a car with a 3500 lb. curb weight and 360 HP). The safety ratings argument you made IS irrelevant considering the engineers decided they weren't "adequate" to stop the car safely in a reasonable distance on the S3 and the RS3 which ARE THE SAME CAR, ALMOST SAME WEIGHT, AND WERE "ENGINEERED" WITH BETTER BRAKING. The very second you can address that right there in comparison with a K04 Turbo equipped A3 producing the similar power figures as an RS3 I'll shut up.

What about THAT can you not understand? Explain it to me, since I'm the idiot making himself look like a fool.:screwy:

Lastly, I later fully acknowledged and agreed with you on the fact that braking is independent of power. But as stated above, it's a bull****, moot argument for not increasing your braking power as you increase the power of your car. Your "opinion", to a novice, is downright dangerous. There's no arguing that. You modified your driving style to compensate for your lack of braking power that you _need_ on a track regardless of your upgraded pads, lines, and fluids and parade it around like everyone has the same abilities and automatic know-how you do. Then when I question it, you put up a strawman argument concerning weight and its independence from the car's power. That's why I blew it off at first.



> OP, I'm sorry that your quest for answers has resulted in this BS. Some great advice.... if you want good technical answers about modding your car, the best people on the A3 8P section are (in no particular order) Crew (Dave), silversquirrel, JRutter, and Jbrehm, as well as a few others whose screen names I can't recall.


First, stop apologizing to the OP for our debate, start apologizing for your bad advice. Glad you didn't include your own name in that list.:thumbup: Don't really give a **** that you posted others' names because that shows, indeed, how petty you are. Stay classy, npace.:thumbup:


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

davis_449 said:


> Yeah,
> 
> you did.
> 
> ...


This entire post continues to prove your lack of ability to read and comprehend what other people are stating. Thank you for proving my point. Anyone can re-read this entire thread and see that you are clearly in here to antagonize people and argue with them. I'm apologizing to the OP because instead of just getting answers, he is having to sift through this BS. You claimed I stated that nothing was needed, which I didn't, which is what you made up. That other quote proves nothing except that you only read what you want, and make erroneous assumptions about what it means. My advice was based off of the OPs statements that the car would be mostly used as a daily with the rare track event thrown in, and for standard, daily driving, the brakes are adequate. But I'm sure you know more than the IHS, which is why you're trolling threads to start arguments, right? And to top it off, you resort to name calling and then tell me to "stay classy". :screwy: I think I'm the only one who hasn't done that. Again, I'm done with this.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Wow - That was interesting.


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

A3owner said:


> Wow - That was interesting.


Usually everyone here is pretty good. But it's the Internets, bound to happen. 

Looking forward to seeing what you do with your car! :thumbup:


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I ordered a DP from Raceland today. I will have it installed with the APR K04. Still awaiting arrival of the kit and getting an installation appointment.


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## Fellow Gaucho (Aug 3, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I ordered a DP from Raceland today. I will have it installed with the APR K04. Still awaiting arrival of the kit and getting an installation appointment.


Can I ask why you chose this specific one? Based on price solely? Do you think APR, Neuspeed, etc are basically the same thing? Not trying to be a jerk, just wondering what your though process was.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Fellow Gaucho said:


> Can I ask why you chose this specific one? Based on price solely? Do you think APR, Neuspeed, etc are basically the same thing? Not trying to be a jerk, just wondering what your though process was.



1. I think for my usage it will be everything I need (not doing an intake or exhaust)
2. Price is what got my eye. I was to the point this or nothing. I decided I would rather spend the difference in price on light weight wheels in the future
3. Great support - confirmed it would work on my quattro (asked about the CAI and they said they are discontinuing it)

Coming from the MR2 world there are a lot of vendors like this. (KO Racing, Berk Technology, etc) That make great parts and they seemed to have good reviews. I felt comfortable with doing business with them. 

Would I do a DP from them? Yes
Would I do wheel spacers from them? Yes
Would I do the CAI? Yes if I wanted one
Would I do the coilovers? No


I will let you all know how it goes.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

My opinion, I wouldn't do wheel spacers from anyone except H&R.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> My opinion, I wouldn't do wheel spacers from anyone except H&R.


They look legit. They have a 30 day return policy. I could see giving them a try. (tried a dozen different types on my MR2 to get huge tires under the front.)

http://www.racelandus.com/wheel-spacers/audi-wheel-spacers.html


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Here is a walk down memory lane with a few photos of my old 1993 Toyota MR2.


















Playing with clearance for big front tires.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Since the A3 is not a race car. The looks matter. I am having the hardest time figuring out what rims I will get in the spring.

V708









RSe07










V705


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

The build quality of the Neuspeed RSe07 is significantly better than that of the VMR offerings


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

crew219 said:


> The build quality of the Neuspeed RSe07 is significantly better than that of the VMR offerings


I agree. I had some VMR VB3's on my BMW. Clear was coming off after 8 months of use in summer weather. I love the light weight of the Neuspeed offerings.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Anyone have an opinion on a spoiler? It looks like it is missing something when I look at it.


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## mfractal (May 16, 2005)

The s3 and the rs3 spoilers are p&p and look great! 

Tapatalkin'


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## Sleeper_A3 (Nov 2, 2013)

A3owner said:


> RSe07
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

> They look legit. They have a 30 day return policy. I could see giving them a try. (tried a dozen different types on my MR2 to get huge tires under the front.)
> 
> http://www.racelandus.com/wheel-spac...l-spacers.html


I've just had\seen too many bad experiences with "looks legit" and I don't like Raceland's quality reputation. Who knows, maybe they'll work out for you. I've dealt with all this **** too much and have learned my lessons (case in point: ST coilovers).




crew219 said:


> The build quality of the Neuspeed RSe07 is significantly better than that of the VMR offerings





> I agree. I had some VMR VB3's on my BMW. Clear was coming off after 8 months of use in summer weather. I love the light weight of the Neuspeed offerings.


I had a completely different experience with VMR. I had a set of 19" VMR V710's, when they first came out in 2008 (I had the first set sold in Tx), and they lasted 3.5 years on the car under my ownership with some VERY aggressive driving and some occasions where I ran over bumps that I was sure bent at least a couple of them. Never bent a wheel. They were damn near mint when I sold the car (I never curbed any of them). Then it went to a less than experience kid in 2011 who BEAT THE **** out of them for another two years. He destroyed two of them, but the things he had to do on those two occasions to destroy them would've destroyed ANY wheel.

That said, your experience is one that's not unheard of to me. However, I know people who've had issues like you and VMR was more than happy to take care of them.

*Right after purchase:*



















*Right before sale:*



















But then again, if you believe npace, I don't know **** about this stuff...


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

IMO, the only reason to get different wheels is to either reduce weight, widen your track, or if you need to make room for bigger brakes, as I think stock audi wheels are good looking. The neuspeed wheels are very lightweight. Personally, I plan on going with a set of OZs that are just under 17lbs per wheel, which should increase performance a bit, and they generally go on sale a few times a year on tirerack.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

My cars looks like this. I think the stock wheels it has are about the ugliest I have seen. 










Looks like a washer and dryer to me. Very female friendly. It needs a spoiler, wheels, and suspension. Stock I like the looks of a Mazdaspeed3, WRX, and GTI better, but I think the A3 is a foundation for a better looking car.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> I've just had\seen too many bad experiences with "looks legit" and I don't like Raceland's quality reputation. Who knows, maybe they'll work out for you. I've dealt with all this **** too much and have learned my lessons (case in point: ST coilovers).
> 
> 
> I had a completely different experience with VMR. I had a set of 19" VMR V710's, when they first came out in 2008 (I had the first set sold in Tx), and they lasted 3.5 years on the car under my ownership with some VERY aggressive driving and some occasions where I ran over bumps that I was sure bent at least a couple of them. Never bent a wheel. They were damn near mint when I sold the car (I never curbed any of them). Then it went to a less than experience kid in 2011 who BEAT THE **** out of them for another two years. He destroyed two of them, but the things he had to do on those two occasions to destroy them would've destroyed ANY wheel.
> ...


I understand. The only concern I have is the coating they put on. What is it covering up. H&R's have been good to me in the past. I had my brother make me a few when nobody else had what I needed. I don't see doing spacers unless I know I can fit some 255/35R18's on the car.

Love the wheels and pics. (give me a link to your ST coilover review - trying not to overload this thread)

I never even called VMR to see if they would take care of me. I have never bent a rim. Knock on wood. I probably won't do anything with them until March/April.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I understand. The only concern I have is the coating they put on. What is it covering up. H&R's have been good to me in the past. I had my brother make me a few when nobody else had what I needed. I don't see doing spacers unless I know I can fit some 255/35R18's on the car.
> 
> Love the wheels and pics. (give me a link to your ST coilover review - trying not to overload this thread)
> 
> I never even called VMR to see if they would take care of me. I have never bent a rim. Knock on wood. I probably won't do anything with them until March/April.


I can't find my rant on the ST's and the problems I had. I posted it in a thread I can't find.

The long and short:

I lowered the car with H&R sport springs on stock S Line shocks first. Hated the look when I got to the shop the day they were installed. The shop owner warned be about this, he was right. I would want coilovers as soon as I saw the car. Fine. My first instinct was H&R coilovers, but the owner (my friend) had just started carrying these new coilovers made by KW (I had heard nothing but good things about them up until that time) called Speed Tech (ST) and they were only $700. I knew I shouldn't have bought cheap coilovers. I went against my first instinct and purchased the ST's anyway. Everything was fine with mine for about 3 mos. and I loved the ride and handling. Then I started to experience the dreaded "clunk" issue, the indicator of a defect with the dampers that I would soon come to find out KW was fully aware of. Since then I have heard of instances involving the V2 and V3 lines as well. They took care of and made right by some people, but not the majority. My buddy, the shop owner and KW dealer, had a set with the same problem on his own car. Even with his lead mechanic's diagnosis of the problem, KW told him to go **** himself. He tried to get mine warrantied, they told him I was SOL. The rest of his customers that had them and experienced the issue, same thing: go **** yourself, we have no manufacturer defect issues with these coilovers. Every single one of them either suffered with it or paid to switch to another coilover. After about two years with them and steadily decreasing performance from them, I got fed up and took matters into my own hands. The long and short is that they fed me the same line. When presented with proof via forum posts from Vortex where they had acknowledged the issue and honored their warranty, they first skipped over it completely, then denied it, and finally blamed my problems on a "squeak" issue with the strut mounts MKV's are known to have. I argued with the guy forever about the difference between a "squeak" and a "clunk" noise. I even presented him with another diagnosis from my mechanic, they still denied it. Finally I was just flatly told I would have to pay for the dampers to be replaced, period the end. In the end, I switched to H&R's, as several of my shop's customers did, and OMG you wouldn't believe it, problem solved, no more clunk. So much for a problem with my strut mounts, huh, KW?

So there you go. You get what you pay for and, in some cases as with KW, you don't get what you pay for. That is the reason I will never recommend or buy another KW product as long as I live. Let it be known that having said all of this, I am aware that there are thousands of ST's and V1's sold and owners with no issues. I will also go post a quote of my positive comments concerning V3's from another thread in here where I had nothing but good things to say about them. Still doesn't mean I'll recommend them to anyone...EVER.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

davis_449 said:


> I've just had\seen too many bad experiences with "looks legit" and I don't like Raceland's quality reputation. Who knows, maybe they'll work out for you. I've dealt with all this **** too much and have learned my lessons (case in point: ST coilovers).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



TLR

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29276 Too bad he took his pics down.

I also frequently see two cars with VMR wheels that have chipped paint. 

VMR are cheap heavy gravity cast wheels. Neuspeed is a lightweight low pressure cast wheel with rotary forged barrels. Can't really compare the two.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

crew219 said:


> TLR
> 
> http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29276 Too bad he took his pics down.
> 
> I also frequently see two cars with VMR wheels that have chipped paint.


I see cars with BBS, Work, OZ, etc. with chipped paint...what's your point? Furthermore, there's a problem using that post you linked to backup any argument you might have that you didn't take into account. They were powder coated or painted a different color (probably by VMR at one of their sub contracted powdercoaters, I doubt they do their own). Therefore, there's a variable in there VMR needs to get control of. But that isn't uncommon at all. My shop has been through 4 refinishers\powdercoaters in the last two years. Some seem really good for a while and then go downhill. I just had one of my wheels (OEM Talledegas from a Golf R) done back in Aug. 2013 after I plowed a curb. These guys are, or so I thought, good. That ****er started chipping not even a month after being put back on the car. It's still getting worse. My point is that you take that risk with any painted or powder coated wheel whether you buy it from a manufacturer or have it done yourself. They even try to calm that guy down stating it could've been incidental. I live in a rock quarry city...let's just say, that **** happens.:banghead:

That said, wouldn't take away my frustration with the problem. Looks like they intended to take care of him, though. Sometimes when they run out it does take MONTHS to get a replacement in. More than I can say for KW...:thumbdown:



> VMR are cheap heavy gravity cast wheels. Neuspeed is a lightweight low pressure cast wheel with rotary forged barrels. Can't really compare the two.


Well, my proof of experience is in my pics and I don't know anyone who's bought Neuspeed ****. For the money, they've all bought BBS, including me:










If the OP isn't looking to spend a whole lot of money and still achieve his style goals, bang for your buck goes to VMR hands down IMO. I do like the Neuspeed wheel styles, though.:thumbup:


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Sleeper_A3 said:


> A3owner said:
> 
> 
> > Nice ... I am looking to upgrade wheels myself come spring time. I like both the V708 and the RSe07 you posted. But can anyone please tell me how you can we fit such a wide tire in to our A3 without rubbing as the picture of the RSe07 shows above?
> ...


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Sleeper_A3 said:
> 
> 
> > Check out the owners for sale thread. 245/35R18's.
> ...


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Planning to order coils and plugs today. Might get a spoiler if I can figure out where to get one.

Which of these coils are the R8 coils? Is this the red ones?

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Ignition/

http://genuineaudiparts.com/partloc...o&PartID=1211317&siteid=214407&catalogid=9493


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Redtop coils ordered. 

davis449 - What is plugs do you use? I saw on Audizine you use a step colder NGK'. Did this on my MR2.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Redtop coils ordered.
> 
> davis449 - What is plugs do you use? I saw on Audizine you use a step colder NGK'. Did this on my MR2.


I believe NGK BKR7EIX was what we put in it.

See this thread for more details and advice: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37818


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> I believe NGK BKR7EIX was what we put in it.
> 
> See this thread for more details and advice: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37818


Wow - Reading that they used the BKR7E just like I did on my 3SGTE. 

Got me thinking about comparing the old school Toyota 3SGTE to 2.0T.

*3SGTE*
200hp @ 6000rpm
200ft-lbs @ 3200rpm

*2.0T*
200hp @ 5100rpm
207ft-lbs @ 1800rpm

Interesting comparing engines with same displacement.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Wow - Reading that they used the BKR7E just like I did on my 3SGTE.
> 
> Got me thinking about comparing the old school Toyota 3SGTE to 2.0T.
> 
> ...


I love the second gen MR2...:heart:


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Ordered Godspeed V2 IC

Hoping I get my install appointment next week. My understanding from the APR dealer is we are waiting on APR for K04 kit.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Install of the following next Wednesday.


APR K04 Kit 
Raceland DP
Godspeed v2 Intercooler


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Dropped it off today.

Having the following done.

APR K04
Raceland DP
GodSpeed IC
R8 Coilpacks and NGK plugs
Fresh DSG fluid
K&N filter
Fresh Haldex Fuild


Looking forward to Wednesday night.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Raceland DP didn't work on the quattro. Glad I have an email trailer saying it would. Kind of a bummer.


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

That is too bad. I know there is a cheaper quattro downpipe made by atp. I know ecs sells it along with other vendors. I have the usp downpipe and for the cost i do not recomend it. I would however recomend SPM because on my buddies gti we had no issues with fitment and it was MUCH nicer than my usp. I had no issues with fitment on the USP but the spm just felt so much better. You can get the SPM for $450.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

louiekaps said:


> That is too bad. I know there is a cheaper quattro downpipe made by atp. I know ecs sells it along with other vendors. I have the usp downpipe and for the cost i do not recomend it. I would however recomend SPM because on my buddies gti we had no issues with fitment and it was MUCH nicer than my usp. I had no issues with fitment on the USP but the spm just felt so much better. You can get the SPM for $450.


Lol . . . SPM.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/SPM-Steve-Perry-Motorsports/169722713187432

A "friend" of mine is having issues with the flex pipe and fitment on his.

Dave


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

Just my .02. Im sure all of the $400 price range downpipes have similar issues. If i had to go back and do it again i would have spent more money on a dp, but whatever, atleast it hasnt given me any problems this far.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I will just go with stock DP for now. Raceland was quick to reply. They sent return postage for returning it.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

When it comes to performance parts, sometimes you just gotta pay to play. That's why I went one manufacturer for the whole thing...turboback exhaust FTMFW. Save your pennies, man.:thumbup:

http://shop.bbexhaust.com/Audi-A3-Exhaust-for-Quattro-Catback-with-Downpipe-by-Billy-Boat-FPIM-0482.htm

Fitment is perfect. My mechanic threw this on so fast it would blow your mind.

I didn't post anything concerning your potential exhaust purchase due to my little spat in this thread with npace. I didn't want to start another argument, so I just let it go and let you figure it out the hard way. Sorry man. For me, when it comes to this ****, I didn't have to learn the hard way. I took experienced people's recommendations and cut no corners. When I watch people in this and other car forums cut corners and start adding up how much labor $$$ it must've cost them putting and pulling parts on and off the car it almost always equals them NOT saving any money by trying different things. Often times, they spend more...even the DIY'ers. Time is money, but I don't judge, because if that's your thing and it gets you off no money is "wasted".:thumbup:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

davis_449 said:


> I didn't post anything concerning your potential exhaust purchase due to my little spat in this thread with npace. I didn't want to start another argument, so I just let it go and let you figure it out the hard way. Sorry man. For me, when it comes to this ****, I didn't have to learn the hard way. I took experienced people's recommendations and cut no corners. When I watch people in this and other car forums cut corners and start adding up how much labor $$$ it must've cost them putting and pulling parts on and off the car it almost always equals them NOT saving any money by trying different things. Often times, they spend more...even the DIY'ers. Time is money, but I don't judge, because if that's your thing and it gets you off no money is "wasted".:thumbup:


Small chip on your shoulder huh?


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

crew219 said:


> Small chip on your shoulder huh?


No, it's just that I don't know anything about this sort of stuff, so I though there for a min. I should just be quiet.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> When it comes to performance parts, sometimes you just gotta pay to play. That's why I went one manufacturer for the whole thing...turboback exhaust FTMFW. Save your pennies, man.:thumbup:
> 
> http://shop.bbexhaust.com/Audi-A3-Exhaust-for-Quattro-Catback-with-Downpipe-by-Billy-Boat-FPIM-0482.htm
> 
> ...


I am disappointed they said it would and it didn't. Raceland has been very easy to work with the return the part. I am happy with that.

On the other note the GodSpeed Intercooler got great reviews from the installer. They were impressed with it. So it looks like I am 1 for 2 at this point. I will just go without a DP for now and readdress that at some point after I have the suspension and wheels on it. (maybe never) 


I am debating what to do with the suspension. Deciding not to do coliovers. 

Do I go H&R or Eibachs?
Do I got Koni or Bilsteins?
I was told to go Neuspeed Rearsway bar, but I saw some hollow bars that might do the trick.


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

Im not sure neuspeed makes a rear sway for quattro. H&r, vw racing, and whiteline do forsure. The awd cars have a different rearsway due to the rear diff.

Edit: i stand corrected neuspeed does make one.

I did a rearsway before coilovers, it definitely made a big difference on cornering speed/oversteer, but it was much more noticeable when paired with stiffer dampners.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I am disappointed they said it would and it didn't. Raceland has been very easy to work with the return the part. I am happy with that.
> 
> On the other note the GodSpeed Intercooler got great reviews from the installer. They were impressed with it. So it looks like I am 1 for 2 at this point. I will just go without a DP for now and readdress that at some point after I have the suspension and wheels on it. (maybe never)
> 
> ...


If you're not going coilovers, I like the H&R\Bilstein combo. I am in debate about rear sway myself...I hear things like louiekaps said and I hear that after coilovers, on this car, it's really not worth it. IDK...


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

If you're into spirited driving, i highly recomend sways. I still need to get my front one but so far the rear made the car so much more agile. I have my h&r bar(26mm) set to stiff and on dry pavement when it wasnt cold i could easily slide into and out of corners. It definitely gives more response, BUT while set on stiff the rear bounces a little bit over uneven roads. When its on soft it is not bad at all. Getting swaybars all depends on how you drive the car.

And i second the h&r/bilstein combo. Thats what i was gonna run but hpa had a good sale on shs so i hopped on them.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

louiekaps said:


> If you're into spirited driving, i highly recomend sways. I still need to get my front one but so far the rear made the car so much more agile. I have my h&r bar(26mm) set to stiff and on dry pavement when it wasnt cold i could easily slide into and out of corners. It definitely gives more response, BUT while set on stiff the rear bounces a little bit over uneven roads. When its on soft it is not bad at all. Getting swaybars all depends on how you drive the car.
> 
> And i second the h&r/bilstein combo. Thats what i was gonna run but hpa had a good sale on shs so i hopped on them.


Louie, you may not want to get a front swaybar. I just added the rear, but didn't do the front, because if you add a stiffer front swaybar, there will be more "push" in the way you feel the car respond to your steering input. This will make the response feel more like stock, and you will probably end up wanting an even stiffer swaybar in the rear. I'm not saying it won't stiffen the chassis, it will, but the drawback is that it will bring the ratio of front to rear stiffness closer to the ratio that the car has stock, and the feel that you talk about on cornering will suffer. 034 motorsport talks about this as well, and I've heard of some guys who remove the front swaybar instead of getting a stiffer rear one. I wouldn't do that, but it illustrates my point which is that you should do more research before adding the front swaybar, because it will alter the way the car handles again, and likely not in the way you want it to. 

OP, as far as shocks/springs go, I agree that bilsteins are probably a higher quality option than konis, but that's just personal preference. Crew, and I think a few others, have had issues with konis. With springs, research whether you want linear or progressive springs (both have benefits and drawbacks) and go from there. DG, VWR, and a few others are linear, while most of the others are progressive. Hope that helps.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

npace said:


> Louie, you may not want to get a front swaybar. I just added the rear, but didn't do the front, because if you add a stiffer front swaybar, there will be more "push" in the way you feel the car respond to your steering input. This will make the response feel more like stock, and you will probably end up wanting an even stiffer swaybar in the rear. I'm not saying it won't stiffen the chassis, it will, but the drawback is that it will bring the ratio of front to rear stiffness closer to the ratio that the car has stock, and the feel that you talk about on cornering will suffer. 034 motorsport talks about this as well, and I've heard of some guys who remove the front swaybar instead of getting a stiffer rear one. I wouldn't do that, but it illustrates my point which is that you should do more research before adding the front swaybar, because it will alter the way the car handles again, and likely not in the way you want it to.
> 
> 
> OP, as far as shocks/springs go, I agree that bilsteins are probably a higher quality option than konis, but that's just personal preference. Crew, and I think a few others, have had issues with konis. With springs, research whether you want linear or progressive springs (both have benefits and drawbacks) and go from there. DG, VWR, and a few others are linear, while most of the others are progressive. Hope that helps.



In my opinion, there is a HUGE benefit to having matching adjustable front and rear sway bars from the same manufacturer (I am running Hotchkis bars, for what it's worth). I had just the rear on for a while because it takes all of 30 minutes to install, whereas the front requires dropping the subframe and takes considerably longer. I ran the rear on "soft" (90% stiffer than stock) with the stock front sway bar and I enjoyed the change in balance from front to rear. When I finally got around to putting the front on, I ran it on "soft" (45% stiffer than stock) and moved the rear to "medium" (135% stiffer than stock). This let me keep roughly the same front/rear balance as before, but with a substantial improvement in steering feel and front end handling. While it is true that with a stiffer bar you are getting effectively less grip, in my experience maintaining an ideal balance between front and rear prevents any increase in understeer or excessive/lift-off oversteer.


----------



## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

TBomb said:


> In my opinion, there is a HUGE benefit to having matching adjustable front and rear sway bars from the same manufacturer (I am running Hotchkis bars, for what it's worth). I had just the rear on for a while because it takes all of 30 minutes to install, whereas the front requires dropping the subframe and takes considerably longer. I ran the rear on "soft" (90% stiffer than stock) with the stock front sway bar and I enjoyed the change in balance from front to rear. When I finally got around to putting the front on, I ran it on "soft" (45% stiffer than stock) and moved the rear to "medium" (135% stiffer than stock). This let me keep roughly the same front/rear balance as before, but with a substantial improvement in steering feel and front end handling. While it is true that with a stiffer bar you are getting effectively less grip, in my experience maintaining an ideal balance between front and rear prevents any increase in understeer or excessive/lift-off oversteer.


No argument here. I'm just saying that in addition to the added stiffness, that he _*might*_ not like the results, and to do more research before going that route. If possible, you know what your car feels like, so maybe try and drive one with both, if you know someone, and see if you like the difference or not.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

npace said:


> No argument here. I'm just saying that in addition to the added stiffness, that he _*might*_ not like the results, and to do more research before going that route. If possible, you know what your car feels like, so maybe try and drive one with both, if you know someone, and see if you like the difference or not.


Yeah, I wasn't trying to contradict you, I just wanted to point out my experience with adjustable swaybars. You're right though, if he likes the more tail happy feel of a stock front and full stiff rear, he might be disappointed with the more balanced feel of an upgraded front.


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

While i love the stiff rear for blastin around town, im sure ill do much better around a track with a stiffer front as well. But since im not a regular at the track, its not at the top of my priorities at the moment. Thanks for the advice guys.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I likely would go with front and rear sway bars together. Thinking the clubsport bars. I have liked hallow bars in the past. 

http://www.autuning.com/products/su...-swaybar.html?mk=audi&mdl=a3&cfg=2-0t-quattro
http://www.autuning.com/products/su...-swaybar.html?mk=audi&mdl=a3&cfg=2-0t-quattro

As far as springs. I am thinking progressive. The car will never likely see any type of competition. It will see kids hauling, grocery getting, track days, and some autox test and tune.


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## easthk (Oct 10, 2004)

also check out the 034 rear sway bar- I'm considering one as well, curious if anyone on here has reviews.

http://store.034motorsport.com/prod...kv-mkvi-volkswagen-r32-golf-r-adjustable.html

Similar to downpipes, be sure rear sway is AWD-specific and not FWD. Some vendors don't really specify. 

As for AWD downpipes, selection seemed more limited a year or two ago when I was searching, with only a few vendors that I could find- billy boat, Milltek, MTM (serious $$$) and APR (originally a Golf R DP could be modified slightly to fit an A3, but now they have a quattro specific pipe). 

I shelled out the cash for a Milltek turboback system which fits great, is quiet- deeper tone but won't wake the neighbors- and well constructed, plus I've had good luck with Milltek in the past vs other lesser quality parts *cough-GHL*. Would recommend ordering direct from Griffin to avoid local sales tax.
http://www.g-werke.com/audi/a3/exhaust/griffin-motorwerke-audi-vw-2-0t-downpipe-with-high-flow-cat/ 
and this
http://www.g-werke.com/griffin-motorwerke/griffin-motorwerke-mini-cat-o2-sensor-spacer/


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

easthk said:


> you might also like the 034 rear sway bar- I'm considering one as well, curious if anyone on here has reviews.
> 
> http://store.034motorsport.com/prod...kv-mkvi-volkswagen-r32-golf-r-adjustable.html
> 
> ...


I love the milltek exhaust. Only problem was, I originally got the milltek turbo back because APR didn't offer one (a little over a year ago) and with stage 3, the milltek DP wouldn't fit the GT28 turbo. Ended up with an APR golf R downpipe and milltek catback. I agree though, the sound is amazing. It's a low rumble, louder than stock, but not too loud. It kicks up a notch when you step on it, but doesn't get all high pitched like some of the other ones I've heard.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

npace said:


> Louie, you may not want to get a front swaybar. I just added the rear, but didn't do the front, because if you add a stiffer front swaybar, there will be more "push" in the way you feel the car respond to your steering input. This will make the response feel more like stock, and you will probably end up wanting an even stiffer swaybar in the rear. I'm not saying it won't stiffen the chassis, it will, but the drawback is that it will bring the ratio of front to rear stiffness closer to the ratio that the car has stock, and the feel that you talk about on cornering will suffer. 034 motorsport talks about this as well, and I've heard of some guys who remove the front swaybar instead of getting a stiffer rear one. I wouldn't do that, but it illustrates my point which is that you should do more research before adding the front swaybar, because it will alter the way the car handles again, and likely not in the way you want it to.


I agree with npace here (I know, miracle), if I were to get a sway bar, then I would go with a rear one and leave the front alone on the 8P.:thumbup:


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Car is done. I hope to pick it up today or tomorrow.


----------



## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

TBomb said:


> In my opinion, there is a HUGE benefit to having matching adjustable front and rear sway bars from the same manufacturer (I am running Hotchkis bars, for what it's worth). I had just the rear on for a while because it takes all of 30 minutes to install, whereas the front requires dropping the subframe and takes considerably longer. I ran the rear on "soft" (90% stiffer than stock) with the stock front sway bar and I enjoyed the change in balance from front to rear. When I finally got around to putting the front on, I ran it on "soft" (45% stiffer than stock) and moved the rear to "medium" (135% stiffer than stock). This let me keep roughly the same front/rear balance as before, but with a substantial improvement in steering feel and front end handling. While it is true that with a stiffer bar you are getting effectively less grip, in my experience maintaining an ideal balance between front and rear prevents any increase in understeer or excessive/lift-off oversteer.


Similar experience here. More neg camber up front helps, too. Having spun this car multiple times in the wet dialing in the suspension, I prefer the balance with both bars. My wife and son drive the car occasionally as well, so that was a consideration.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Anyone have an recommendations on alignments?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Lots of good information here on alignment specs:

http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/jettatech/alignment/index.htm

Not specific for the A3, and mostly applies to older vw's, but the information about getting an alignment is relevant and easily applied. The only thing I'll add is that you can't change the camber without TT ball joints and / or camber plates.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

npace said:


> Lots of good information here on alignment specs:
> 
> http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/jettatech/alignment/index.htm
> 
> Not specific for the A3, and mostly applies to older vw's, but the information about getting an alignment is relevant and easily applied. The only thing I'll add is that you can't change the camber without TT ball joints and / or camber plates.


Thanks! I will check it out.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I got my first taste of the A3 with K04 with Godspeed V2 Intercooler. I am running the 91 Octane tune. I am impressed how it drives. It drives like it came this way from the factory. I am not sure anyone would notice it being different then stock unless I told them. At about 20 miles on the car I am not really impressed with the power. Maybe I am spoiled.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I got my first taste of the A3 with K04 with Godspeed V2 Intercooler. I am running the 91 Octane tune. I am impressed how it drives. It drives like it came this way from the factory. I am not sure anyone would notice it being different then stock unless I told them. At about 20 miles on the car I am not really impressed with the power. Maybe I am spoiled.


IDK...I drove my shop owner's low mileage, extremely well-maintained 2010 335i all the time. It's just a different feel. The car isn't any slower, regardless of 91 or 93 octane tune. I promise.

Also, if you're doing all this in Drive, then you're doing it wrong and you damn sure won't feel ANY difference from stock. Put it in M or S (you can even leave the ESP on) and start driving it like you stole it. Then you should become immediately aware of what you paid for, if not, neither I nor anyone here can help you out.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

A3owner said:


> I got my first taste of the A3 with K04 with Godspeed V2 Intercooler. I am running the 91 Octane tune. I am impressed how it drives. It drives like it came this way from the factory. I am not sure anyone would notice it being different then stock unless I told them. At about 20 miles on the car I am not really impressed with the power. Maybe I am spoiled.


Sure you're not in stock mode?


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

crew219 said:


> Sure you're not in stock mode?


It was not in stock.


I think I just have to get used to it needs to be wound out to make power. If I had to choose between a DP/CBE/CAI which would be best?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

DP will likely yeild the best power gains. Are you running the stock airbox? CBE sounds cool, but in general terms yeilds the least gain, in terms of power, if it were me, I would save the CBE for last if it's a budgeting issue... just be advised that a full TBE and install once is cheaper than doing it in stages.... so it might be best to wait however long you need to get both at once. This isn't all 100% fact, because there's a few factors involved, but it serves as a pretty good rule of thumb. (For clarity, most gains to least is in the following order: DP, CAI, CBE)


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

npace said:


> DP will likely yeild the best power gains. Are you running the stock airbox? CBE sounds cool, but in general terms yeilds the least gain, in terms of power, if it were me, I would save the CBE for last if it's a budgeting issue... just be advised that a full TBE and install once is cheaper than doing it in stages.... so it might be best to wait however long you need to get both at once. This isn't all 100% fact, because there's a few factors involved, but it serves as a pretty good rule of thumb. (For clarity, most gains to least is in the following order: DP, CAI, CBE)


Blower fan went out on the A3 after getting it home. Instead of trying to fix in myself in my unheated garage I took it back. Someone had a Golf R that was getting a new APR DP/CBE. The shop owner got me a deal on the Godspeed DP he is taking off. Owner was super impressed with the intercooler and loved the DP so I figured I would go with it. Picking it up later today with heater and DP. I just hope it is not loud.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Car is completely different animal with the DP. Huge benefit. Now I like the power band.


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Car is completely different animal with the DP. Huge benefit. Now I like the power band.


There ya go! Glad you're happy with it.:thumbup:


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> When it comes to performance parts, sometimes you just gotta pay to play. That's why I went one manufacturer for the whole thing...turboback exhaust FTMFW. Save your pennies, man.:thumbup:
> 
> http://shop.bbexhaust.com/Audi-A3-Exhaust-for-Quattro-Catback-with-Downpipe-by-Billy-Boat-FPIM-0482.htm
> 
> ...


How loud is this? I like the power gains, but it is a little loud even with the stock cat back. I could definately see getting this.


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## kharma (Jan 2, 2004)

A3owner said:


> How loud is this? I like the power gains, but it is a little loud even with the stock cat back. I could definately see getting this.


I put this up back on pg 2 in the midst of the sh!tshow over brakes, but the B&B is solid stuff. I opted for downpipe only, and it's just a little deeper unless you floor it and even then it's still fairly stock-ish. Seems their price has gone up 100 since I got mine, but still one of the better deals out there.



kharma said:


> Really happy with my B&B downpipe with stock catback, most people who ride in my car don't know it's there unless I REALLY get on it. They used to make the pieces for APR, mine even came in an inside-out APR box. http://www.lmperformance.com/560564


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

kharma said:


> I put this up back on pg 2 in the midst of the sh!tshow over brakes, but the B&B is solid stuff. I opted for downpipe only, and it's just a little deeper unless you floor it and even then it's still fairly stock-ish. Seems their price has gone up 100 since I got mine, but still one of the better deals out there.


Thanks! I might just go full exhaust and be done. Thanks for the link. 
http://www.lmperformance.com/560562


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## kharma (Jan 2, 2004)

A3owner said:


> Thanks! I might just go full exhaust and be done. Thanks for the link.
> http://www.lmperformance.com/560562


I go back and forth about the catback... and an intake for that matter. Seems most of the gains are noise, and I'm happy with the way things are now.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

kharma said:


> I go back and forth about the catback... and an intake for that matter. Seems most of the gains are noise, and I'm happy with the way things are now.


I am divided. I could see spending the Catback money some where else.


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## kharma (Jan 2, 2004)

A3owner said:


> I am divided. I could see spending the Catback money some where else.


The rumor mill is strong that the APR DSG tune is coming soon.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

kharma said:


> The rumor mill is strong that the APR DSG tune is coming soon.


I honestly was thinking I would rather have a TT steeering wheel then CBE.


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## BeeAlk (Jun 3, 2013)

A3owner said:


> I honestly was thinking I would rather have a TT steeering wheel then CBE.


I have full turboback exhaust from milltek. I kind of like the idea of the TT wheel instead of the CBE.. As a driver you have much more interaction with the steering wheel on a regular basis than you do the exhaust. Plus with the quieter exhaust you have much more of a sleeper.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

kharma said:


> The rumor mill is strong that the APR DSG tune is coming soon.


That rumor has been going for over three years. That said, they did finally get their cell phone software with blue tooth deal out the door; about three years after first announcing that they were going to release it. I can say that HPA's DSG tune is f'ing awesome, and they've been doing it for a while. Crew bags on it because they use byteshooter as a computer to DSG interface, but that's all it is, the map is solid. It's expensive, but you have it forever once you pay for it, which is not typically the case of APR. A few other people on here have the UM DSG tune and are happy with it; I think JRutter has it.


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## kharma (Jan 2, 2004)

I'm pretty sure the rumors had already started back in 2006 when I had my first A3... someday. :facepalm:

I'll still believe it when I see it, but I'd prefer to not mix & match ECU/TCU tunes if possible. I'm sure the HPA flash is great, they've worked with the tech since it came out but I still can't stomach the cost of entry.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

I hear you on the mix and match deal, and the cost of entry is a little high. As far as the cost goes, it is worth it IMO, because you never have to pay for upgrades or updates. With mixing and matching, I had issues at first, but HPA was very easy to work with and got it dialed in for me without issue, remotely. I ran a few logs and sent them to HPA, who quickly helped with the issue and got it resolved. That said, APR makes amazing products, so if / when they come out with one, I'm sure it will be great.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

npace said:


> That rumor has been going for over three years. That said, they did finally get their cell phone software with blue tooth deal out the door; about three years after first announcing that they were going to release it. I can say that HPA's DSG tune is f'ing awesome, and they've been doing it for a while. Crew bags on it because they use byteshooter as a computer to DSG interface, but that's all it is, the map is solid. It's expensive, but you have it forever once you pay for it, which is not typically the case of APR. A few other people on here have the UM DSG tune and are happy with it; I think JRutter has it.


No I bag on it because they've shown that they don't have good control over boost on the MED17 TSI engine. Their "octane detection" is also a joke and simply relies on the ECU to scale back timing advance which is worse than properly tuning for a specific octane.

Just lots of marketing fluff from them . . . along with their intake manifolds that cause you to lose lots of power and knockoff intercoolers that they machine their name into and paint the end tanks to hide the sanding marks  

Dave


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

crew219 said:


> No I bag on it because they've shown that they don't have good control over boost on the MED17 TSI engine. Their "octane detection" is also a joke and simply relies on the ECU to scale back timing advance which is worse than properly tuning for a specific octane.
> 
> Just lots of marketing fluff from them . . . along with their intake manifolds that cause you to lose lots of power and knockoff intercoolers that they machine their name into and paint the end tanks to hide the sanding marks
> 
> Dave


That's all well and good, but I was talking about the DSG tune. I have no idea about the ECU tune.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

npace said:


> That's all well and good, but I was talking about the DSG tune. I have no idea about the ECU tune.


I was bagging on their ECU tune, not their DSG. 

APR has an interesting way of approaching the DSG tune which will make all others irrelevant soon enough 

Dave


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

crew219 said:


> I was bagging on their ECU tune, not their DSG.
> 
> APR has an interesting way of approaching the DSG tune which will make all others irrelevant soon enough
> 
> Dave


Cool. IMO there's a few things you get with a DSG tune... shifting speed is almost irrelevant, because it's already quite a bit faster than manual, and any minor improvement is imperceptible by the user. What we're getting is launch control, a removal of the TCU deciding that you "forgot" to shift in manual mode, and an increase of the torque limit. I'm excited to see what APR brings... new competition always improves the marketplace :thumbup:


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

A3owner said:


> Car is completely different animal with the DP. Huge benefit. Now I like the power band.


Yep, downpipe makes a HUGE difference even with a stock turbo. It's so restrictive I can only imagine how marginal the improvement was with the K04 initially. Good decision to go ahead and get thee downpipe put on...hopefully they gave you the new tune for K04+DP, since they should have used a different file for the K04 with stock DP.


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## biff2bart (Dec 5, 2011)

*My thoughts*

I'm a bit late to this thread and I see that a lot of work has been done on your car recently - yeah!

I have similar thoughts / upgrades on my 2010 A3: I had it tuned (stage 1) about two years ago, and have had K04 in it for about 18 months. Overall, I have had no reliability issues apart from dealing with coilpack failures immediately after getting the K04 installed: the R8 coilpacks resolved that immediately.

Now - what do you do next?

Here is my build - and my thoughts on what has been good and what could be lower priority:

Power:
APR K04
APR Golf R Down Pipe (minor modification required to make this fit correctly) and high flow cat with remaining stock exhaust
APR Corbonio Stage 2 Intake
S3 Intercooler
Dogbone engine mount

Handling / suspension:
H&R front and rear anti-sway bars
Bilstein PSS10 coilovers which have been replaced by a Bilstein sport touring dampers and H&R springs (happy compromise with sig. other!)
S3 control arm bushings
Haldex Race controller (running in race mode 100% of the time)

Brakes:
Brembo ~330mm vented front rotors with 4 pot calipers (GT-1 BBK), stock rear calipers with upgraded pads and vented rotors and lines.

Wheels / tires:
18x8 Enkei PF01 with summer tires
17x8 Neuspeed RSe05 wheels with winter tires

I think that's it - there might be one or two things I've missed...


A K04 upgrade with appropriate supporting mods will get your car down to sub 5 sec 0-60 times: in my opinion (and maybe I'm anal retentive), it's irresponsible to add K04 power to this car without doing at least _some things_ to ensure that handling / braking are at reasonable levels. 

For brakes, a pad upgrade will probably suffice, but personally, I REALLY like the upgrades that I've done and would highly recommend them to anyone putting their A3 into the 300+ HP range (and I'm sure that anyone else running a moderately sized BBK will tell you the same thing). The braking is just WAY more predictable and has a feel unachievable with the factory calipers IMHO. Unless you're going to be on the track a lot, a 330mm rotor and 4 pot caliper will be more than you probably ever need. It will also still clear 17" rims - important if you want a dedicated set of winter wheels.

For handling, depending upon the stock setup of the car (i.e. regular suspension or either S-line or sport suspension) you might be able to get away with simply lowering springs, or might want something more involved. One thing I would really look into (because it's cheap) is upgrading to the S3 control arm bushings. This made the car MUCH more precise to drive and helped give a bit of feeling to what is arguably the weakest part of the A3's performance package - the vague steering. The parts are under $150 to do both front and rear ends - well worth it. Regardless, suspension mods obviously can make big improvements in handling so you should budget appropriately here. You don't _need_ coilovers - there are lots of damper / spring setups that can give nice ride heights and what ever performance characteristics you want for significantly less money.

Wheels / tires: obviously some of the biggest handling (and braking) gains will come from tires: again - my opinion would be to buy the best performance tires you can afford and purchase a separate winter wheelset if you need to. Rims: there are lots of great options out there in the $250 - $300 retail range, so you don't need to spend huge dollars here: VMR, Neuspeed, Enkei, etc... all make excellent quality (and great looking) wheels that have reasonable weights. As another poster commented, I would pass on the 19" rims unless you really want the look: 18x8 or 18x8.5 with 225 summer sport tires will give you all of the performance that you need. Anything else will just be adding unneeded weight or contributing to under-steer. Quattro is so good that even in absolutely pissing rain, I could barely break away my tires doing launch control starts with my K04. So, aim for an 18" rim with around a 19-20 pound weight as the rotational weight _will_ affect both acceleration and braking. Replacing my OEM 18" Audi peeler rims (gorgeous wheels - but heavy at 26-27 pounds each) with 19 pound PF01s was noticeable on the "butt-o-meter" during hard acceleration.  As an aside, the Neuspeed RS's look awesome in Anthracite with my grey A3!

Haldex Controller: this was one of the last mods I did, but I would definitely consider looking into this: I'm running mine at 50/50 power split 100% of the time (race mode). It's not really noticeable in regular day to day driving, but it very noticeable anytime you're cornering under power. A nice upgrade for sure: I would save a bit of cash and just purchase the race mode only version - I haven't ever felt the need to take it out of race mode and hence I'm glad I didn't spend the money on a controller with multiple programs or even a remote.

Power upgrades: 
As others have said, for your K04 install I would strongly recommend doing the DP (which you now know is pretty much mandatory). Most recommend an intake - I can't really give any advice apart from that my intake has worked from day one and the sound is cool and teh K04 vendor says that you need it!  I think an FMIC upgrade is quite necessary as well - pretty much required in certain climates. I've been running the S3 version and it's been good - I'm possibly going to get the APR FMIC, but we'll see... The dogbone engine mount is very noticeable: the car vibrates a lot more now in low RPM than before, but the increase in engine responsiveness is also noticeable. I'm 50/50 on this mod for daily driving and my wife's not a fan of it, but for fun driving I would definitely endorse it.

Not much more I can add, apart form the fact that these mods have made the car super - and I mean SUPER - fun to drive. It's still a sleeper but can take most cars that aren't seriously fast. You will have to drive pretty much uniquely in Manual mode now because power below 2800 (and really 3000) RPM isn't there: "D" loves low RPM for fuel savings, but it wont work that well with your upgrades. However the range from 3000 - 6500 RPM is a hell-of-a lot of fun to play in: my favourite is pretty much 3rd gear to 4th gear pulls - it's just a really nice range of smoothness and power. Even at higher speeds (60mph+) while you don't get the neck snapping acceleration, you will be surprised how quickly you can go from 60 to 90 mph without even thinking about it.

Let us know how the rest of your upgrades work out!


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

At this point I want the quietest DP and exhaust I can get. The Godspeed one in it has a weird sound and I can't stand it. Thinking B&B will be in order. Unless someone knows of a quieter one.

Next up is Suspension and Wheels.

Debating a Eibach vs H&R vs VWR with Bilstien Sport Struts or ST Coilovers. (my Mechanic says people have loved the ST's, but it might ride a little rougher then what I am going for) Leaning towards Spring/Sturt, but can't decide on which springs. 


Then wheels. Debating Alzor 628 (bland style) wheels or Neuspeed RSe07? Leaning toward RSe07's. Tires will be Bridgestone Potenza RE-11's


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

A3owner said:


> At this point I want the quietest DP and exhaust I can get. The Godspeed one in it has a weird sound and I can't stand it. Thinking B&B will be in order. Unless someone knows of a quieter one.


B&B is not quiet at all and will drone once you get some miles on it. Go with Milltek if you want something quiet.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

crew219 said:


> B&B is not quiet at all and will drone once you get some miles on it. Go with Milltek if you want something quiet.


Are you talking DP or DP and Exhaust? Looking at the Milltek site I have concern about it working with the stock exhaust.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

A3owner said:


> Are you talking DP or DP and Exhaust? Looking at the Milltek site I have concern about it working with the stock exhaust.


Oh I thought you were talking about catbacks. Almost every DP will sound the same. Doubt there will be much of a difference even between piping sizes if you retain the stock catback.


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

But he is running a catless downpipe. Gunkata had billyboat make him a downpipe with a resonator if you want to try to give billyboat a call. I dont think it was anything to expensive. Any catted downpipe and especially one with a resonator will be much quieter.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

louiekaps said:


> But he is running a catless downpipe. Gunkata had billyboat make him a downpipe with a resonator if you want to try to give billyboat a call. I dont think it was anything to expensive. Any catted downpipe and especially one with a resonator will be much quieter.


Yeah, if he is running a catless downpipe it will be louder in general and a tad raspy at full throttle...plus it smells. I went to a B&B downpipe with a high flow cat and the sound is much better...a nice but very low key growl at idle and around town, but sounds like it means business when you open it up without the rasp or ricer sound. Too bad about the whole Eurojet debacle...they made a pretty nice modular downpipe so you could easily swap in a cat and/or a resonator if you wanted.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

TBomb said:


> Yeah, if he is running a catless downpipe it will be louder in general and a tad raspy at full throttle...plus it smells. I went to a B&B downpipe with a high flow cat and the sound is much better...a nice but very low key growl at idle and around town, but sounds like it means business when you open it up without the rasp or ricer sound. Too bad about the whole Eurojet debacle...they made a pretty nice modular downpipe so you could easily swap in a cat and/or a resonator if you wanted.


The godspeed has a cat, but it is so raspy sounding. It also will have times where it will vibrate. (It was on a Golf R before and the previously owner switched to SPM DP and now I know why.)

I will call Billy Boat about getting a catted DP with resonator. That sounds like the perfect solution for me.


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

42dd can also make a catted/res pipe but it isnt stainless steel. And i cant vouch for wuality but ultimate racing also sells a catted/res pipe for us. Billyboat is definitely the one i would try to get tho. Good luck!


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## biff2bart (Dec 5, 2011)

A3owner said:


> The godspeed has a cat, but it is so raspy sounding. It also will have times where it will vibrate. (It was on a Golf R before and the previously owner switched to SPM DP and now I know why.)
> 
> I will call Billy Boat about getting a catted DP with resonator. That sounds like the perfect solution for me.


Quick question:

Is the mount in the middle of the DP connected? I have an APR Golf R down pipe and the mount in the middle of the DP does not line up correctly in the A3 (hence my comments about having to slightly modify it in my post above). If your current DP is also from a golf R, then perhaps the middle mount is not connected on your car either? Maybe it's just the ends of the pipe.

If that's the case, the DP WILL vibrate quite a bit. I ran my DP without the middle mount for a while until I drilled a new hole in the DP mounting plate (this was in the triangular plate in the picture below) and machined a new spacer.

http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products/exhaust_mk6_golfr_kit_downpipe_mid.jpg (there is a larger image on their site).

This removed the vibration from the DP.


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## biff2bart (Dec 5, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Then wheels. Debating Alzor 628 (bland style) wheels or Neuspeed RSe07? Leaning toward RSe07's. Tires will be Bridgestone Potenza RE-11's


My vote is for the Neuspeeds - they are a great looking wheel and weight competitive even in 18" size. have you considered the 5 spoke RSe05 wheels as well? In my option, the 5 spoke wheels have a bit more character than the 7 spoke wheels.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

biff2bart said:


> My vote is for the Neuspeeds - they are a great looking wheel and weight competitive even in 18" size. have you considered the 5 spoke RSe05 wheels as well? In my option, the 5 spoke wheels have a bit more character than the 7 spoke wheels.


Ordered them in Gunmetal. http://www.autuning.com/products/wheels/rse07-light-weight-wheel.html


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## biff2bart (Dec 5, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Ordered them in Gunmetal. http://www.autuning.com/products/wheels/rse07-light-weight-wheel.html


Awesome - it's a super nice colour. These wheels are absolutely great for their cost: light, solid, look fantastic and the gunmetal colour is fantastic. I think you will be stoked


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

A3owner said:


> Ordered them in Gunmetal. http://www.autuning.com/products/wheels/rse07-light-weight-wheel.html


Terrible choice


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

crew219 said:


> Terrible choice


I already regret them.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Thoughts and lessons learned to this point.

I was thinking about what I would do different if I I could go back 2 months and start the process over. I wonder if I would
have been happy with just a chip and DP. Would have that given me the power I want. I still have times where I crave more
put would have the K03 with been able to be close enough. 


Worst buy and biggest regret to this point was trying out the Raceland DP. It didn't fit. Then trying the Godspeed one. It rubbed. Hoping B&B unit is the answer. 
Best buy was the Godspeed IC. It is not $500 worse then the APR unit. I don't have any data to back it up, but it certainly passes the eye test and fit perfect. 


Next up is the suspension install. I went H&R Sport Springs/H&R Rear Sway Bar/Bilstein Sport Shocks.

After that I am thinking I am pretty much done with performance items outside of brakes. I have EBC Yellow pads and fluid ready for a track day. We will see how they do. As it sits it feels fine on the street. I could see adding a little to the appearance. TT steering wheel, blacked out mesh grille, euro front license, and rear roof spoiler. 

Hopefully at that point I can stop.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Forgot about the most important thing. Tires. Debating Bridgestone RE11 vs Continental Extreme DW. Leaning towards Bridgestone.


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

Michelin super sports or pilot sport a/s3


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## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

I second the Pilot Sports.


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## tp.wannabe.s3 (May 21, 2010)

no seat upgrades?


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

tp.wannabe.s3 said:


> no seat upgrades?


I am considering that. Honestly I also have my eyes on a true sports car as my A3 as the jack of all trades. (thinking E90 M3 or 370Z)


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## kharma (Jan 2, 2004)

I cannot praise the Pilot Super Sports enough... they used some kind of magic to get this much performance out of a tire with reasonable tread life :thumbup:


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

Super sports are definitely a league of their own however the new a/s 3 is amazing. Outperforms many summer tires and are pretty inexpensive. Very good wet traction with them aswell. I will be running them instead of summers when i get my bbs.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

A3owner said:


> I am considering that. Honestly I also have my eyes on a true sports car as my A3 as the jack of all trades. (thinking E90 M3 or 370Z)


I'm not sure how an E90 M3 and a 370Z can even be in the same category. M3 all day every day.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

TBomb said:


> I'm not sure how an E90 M3 and a 370Z can even be in the same category. M3 all day every day.


It is all about context. In this case it would be SCCA Solo 2 Classing. 370Z is the car to have in CS. M3 might be the car to have in FS if it can beat the Mustangs. 

If you have not driven a 370Z with the reve matching 6 speed you need to give it a try. Fun sexy car on the cheap.


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## Sleeper_A3 (Nov 2, 2013)

TBomb said:


> I'm not sure how an E90 M3 and a 370Z can even be in the same category. M3 all day every day.


Dude, this.

Between a 370Z, a Mustang, and an A3 I would choose the A3 and add proper mods.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Sleeper_A3 said:


> Dude, this.
> 
> Between a 370Z, a Mustang, and an A3 I would choose the A3 and add proper mods.



I would take the A3 for everyday driving. I was cross shoping a TT and a 370Z for a while and preferred the 370Z.


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

Gotta agree:
In my books the daily driver should br a 4 banger... And the.best 4 cyl engine on the best chasis/platform to me is.the.a3.. Good fuel economy on a fast and agile.car.. All good looking..


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

New DP and suspension is going in next week. Need to check on the wheels and order those Potenza RE-11's.

Looks like my first track day will be in May with the local Audi club. My friend will be attending and said he will be bringing his WRX. It got a GTX28 upgrade this winter. Should be interesting comparison.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Autuning said Neuspeed RSe07 wheels are on back order until end of March. I think I can wait since it will still be early spring here. 

Any other good light options around $250 a wheel? Prefer ones that fit Audi centercaps.


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## easthk (Oct 10, 2004)

team dynamics pro 1.2 are light wheels around ~$250. Could be long lead time though, if coming from UK and not already in US
http://www.outmotoring.com/mini-cooper/mini-cooper-team-dynamics-pro-race.html

also dig tarmacs, around same price. and maybe find some used
http://fifteen52.us/wheels/


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Car is back. 

1. Billy Boat DP is awesome. Quiet and still has the same power. BB >>>>>> Godspeed DP (Godspeed IC was a good deal IMO) 

2. H&R/Bilstein rides factory like. No idea how it handles since the roads are ice covered. Getting rid to the truck height does make the car looks much better. Not to slammed.


----------



## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Car is back.
> 
> 1. Billy Boat DP is awesome. Quiet and still has the same power. BB >>>>>> Godspeed DP (Godspeed IC was a good deal IMO)
> 
> 2. H&R/Bilstein rides factory like. No idea how it handles since the roads are ice covered. Getting rid to the truck height does make the car looks much better. Not to slammed.


Both great choices.:thumbup:


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Next up allignment. As much camber as I can get as it sits and zero toe all around.

I see my neighbor has a black TTS. I wonder how my car would stack up to it.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Alignment complete. 

Front
0 - Toe
-1.2 degrees of camber

Rear
0 - Toe
-1.8 degrees of camber


Wish I had more camber up front and less in back. Any options to change that?


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

A3owner said:


> Alignment complete.
> 
> Front
> 0 - Toe
> ...


Camber plates up front or an adjustable camber front lower ball joint. 

Just dial back the rears using the eccentric adjustment bolts.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Wife drove the A3 today. She doesn't know I have modified it at all. I was waiting for her to comment on it being loud or riding rough. She didn't
say a word. So I think the changes are a success. Improved the cars performance with minimal expense to the manors of the stock car.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Any using this spoiler from ECS? 

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Exterior/Body/Spoiler/ES4933/


----------



## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

A3owner said:


> Looks like my first track day will be in May with the local Audi club. My friend will be attending and said he will be bringing his WRX. It got a GTX28 upgrade this winter. Should be interesting comparison.


Awesome. You will love it. Just try to keep your enthusiasm for any "direct comparison" in check until you earn your instructor's trust be being smooth and driving the line. It is a big red flag to have a student point out a buddy's car if he is in your run group and then aggressively trying to outdrive him. Not that you would, just sayin. But proove that you are in control and being smooth and he will probably help you catch and/or leave him in the dust. 



A3owner said:


> Any using this spoiler from ECS?
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Exterior/Body/Spoiler/ES4933/


Nah, we have perfectly good spoilers already, imho. The A3 sportback already has more rear downforce than the Golfs with the sloping roof and rear end.


----------



## Fellow Gaucho (Aug 3, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Any using this spoiler from ECS?
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Exterior/Body/Spoiler/ES4933/


Go big or go home: http://www.bks-tuning.com/OEM-Audi-RS3-8P-rear-spoiler-conversion


----------



## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

Omg that first one is ugly. 

Sent from my Igloo


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Car seems to be missing something. It is a base model and I am not sure if the S-Line come with something different on the hatch, but mine looks like it is missing something. I will see what it looks like and if I don't like it return it.


----------



## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

A3owner said:


> Car seems to be missing something. It is a base model and I am not sure if the S-Line come with something different on the hatch, but mine looks like it is missing something. I will see what it looks like and if I don't like it return it.


All the hatch should have is the rings and recess for the license plate. Well and the badges but who keeps those anyways? 

Well there is the S-line spoiler as well i guess that some A3's didn't get.


Post up some pictures!!


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Ponto said:


> All the hatch should have is the rings and recess for the license plate. Well and the badges but who keeps those anyways?
> 
> Well there is the S-line spoiler as well i guess that some A3's didn't get.
> 
> ...


Will do. 

UPDATE: Neuspeed RSE07's are shipping on the 28th. Will order tires once I see them.


Waiting on APR DSG tune. I could see going with UNITRONIC. I wonder if anyone does the try and buy. 


http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/ecu-tuning/Audi-A3-20L-TSI-turbo-2009-2010-stage2dsg


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

There is a picture of it. Gives you an idea of the hatchback spoiler or lack of one.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Got my wheels and tires. Need to mount them up.

Talked to a Unitronic rep. Can't put there DSG tune with APR engine tune.


----------



## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

LOL! You came in here from a 335i. I am now going to try to get rid of my "Golf R with DSG" for a 135i.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> LOL! You came in here from a 335i. I am now going to try to get rid of my "Golf R with DSG" for a 135i.


I will be curious what you think of the 135. I looked at them along with E46 M3, TT, 370Z and another 335i. I ended up getting the swiss army knife. It is a great car and does everything
very well, but I never just get the urge to go drive it like I did with the 335i or even my old MR2. So I am in the market for another car to add to the mix.


----------



## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I will be curious what you think of the 135. I looked at them along with E46 M3, TT, 370Z and another 335i. I ended up getting the swiss army knife. It is a great car and does everything
> very well, but *I never just get the urge to go drive it* like I did with the 335i or even my old MR2. So I am in the market for another car to add to the mix.


That's what I want in a car right now. I am in my friend's 997 right now while the shop is raising my coilovers for trade-in on Saturday and I just envisioned myself, while doing a nice controlled tail slide out of a well-paved turnaround on the way back to the office, enjoying this very same thrill in the 135i I am going to purchase Saturday. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> That's what I want in a car right now. I am in my friend's 997 right now while the shop is raising my coilovers for trade-in on Saturday and I just envisioned myself, while doing a nice controlled tail slide out of a well-paved turnaround on the way back to the office, enjoying this very same thrill in the 135i I am going to purchase Saturday. I'll keep you posted.


Hope it works out. I have a 9 hours drive in front of me today. If I had the BMW I wouldn't even question what I would take, but for some odd reason I am thinking I will take the Pilot over the A3. 

I am really thinking I want a 370Z or E46 M3 as a 3rd car. I love the DSG and AWD, but miss a proper manual and RWD for pure driving enjoyment. (370Z rev matching manual is a blast to drive)


----------



## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> Hope it works out. I have a 9 hours drive in front of me today. If I had the BMW I wouldn't even question what I would take, but for some odd reason I am thinking I will take the Pilot over the A3.
> 
> I am really thinking I want a 370Z or E46 M3 as a 3rd car. I love the DSG and AWD, but miss a proper manual and RWD for pure driving enjoyment. (370Z rev matching manual is a blast to drive)


I think it will. I, and most reviewers, agree that 135i has awesome road manners as well as being fun to drive so I anticipate road trips in it being no issue. Then again, I drove two 3K round trips to Vegas in it the A3 on stiff suspension (my own doing, of course) and I had no issues with it. The GF on the hand...not so much. She HATED it. I loved DSG too much to go back to a manual, so both the 135i's I have under consideration for tomorrow are DCT's. I think I will miss the AWD. Yeah, I could've gone TT-S, but the initial cost of the car (equal to or, in most cases, more than a 135i), the money I would have to put in it to get it to my desired power level (exhaust, intercooler, fuel pump, software, etc.), and the fact that I don't want an FSI engine turned me off to that idea just to keep AWD. The 370Z with the rev match is awesome. I have driven one and it is fun as hell, but I think, for pure driving enjoyment, the e46 M3 is the way to go (for the record, I would NEVER own that car in a SMG).


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> I think it will. I, and most reviewers, agree that 135i has awesome road manners as well as being fun to drive so I anticipate road trips in it being no issue. Then again, I drove two 3K round trips to Vegas in it the A3 on stiff suspension (my own doing, of course) and I had no issues with it. The GF on the hand...not so much. She HATED it. I loved DSG too much to go back to a manual, so both the 135i's I have under consideration for tomorrow are DCT's. I think I will miss the AWD. Yeah, I could've gone TT-S, but the initial cost of the car (equal to or, in most cases, more than a 135i), the money I would have to put in it to get it to my desired power level (exhaust, intercooler, fuel pump, software, etc.), and the fact that I don't want an FSI engine turned me off to that idea just to keep AWD. The 370Z with the rev match is awesome. I have driven one and it is fun as hell, but I think, for pure driving enjoyment, the e46 M3 is the way to go (for the record, I would NEVER own that car in a SMG).


I sadly have not taken the time to drive a M3. I am debating just spending the money on a E90 M3. I have heard so many great things about the V8 and the E46 just looks old to me.


----------



## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I sadly have not taken the time to drive a M3. I am debating just spending the money on a E90 M3. I have heard so many great things about the V8 and the E46 just looks old to me.


Definitely go drive the e90 M3, it's an AMAZING car.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I put 800 miles on the A3 this weekend. Cured myself completely of missing the 335i. Still could see a RWD car with a manual. Thinking the Pilot could be sold when I find the right car.


----------



## davis_449 (Apr 6, 2011)

A3owner said:


> I put 800 miles on the A3 this weekend. Cured myself completely of missing the 335i. Still could see a RWD car with a manual. Thinking the Pilot could be sold when I find the right car.


LOL! Put 300 miles on the new 135i this weekend bringing it back to SA from Houston and washed it last night...completely cure myself of missing the A3!


----------



## t_white (Jun 10, 2006)

davis_449 said:


> LOL! Put 300 miles on the new 135i this weekend bringing it back to SA from Houston and washed it last night...completely cure myself of missing the A3!


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

davis_449 said:


> LOL! Put 300 miles on the new 135i this weekend bringing it back to SA from Houston and washed it last night...completely cure myself of missing the A3!


Glad you like it. I really wanted to like them. 

The A3 is not perfect,but it checks so many boxes. I am sucker for hatchbacks and drawn to sedans. Coupes to me equal not good enough to be sports car and not particle enough to be a sedan. Likely why I prefer the E90 over E92.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Getting the Unitronic Stage 2 DSG tune tomorrow. Engineers at APR and Unitronic said it will work fine after all. I would have been more comfortable with the APR tune, but then again Unitronic has more experience with it.


----------



## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

update on how the uni tune is? APR released their dsg software today!


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I din't get the Uni tune in. I got the APR tune yesterday. I can certainly tell the difference with it. quicker shifts. holds gears etc

Doing a track day this weekend. Should help a lot.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Missed the track day. Couldn't find my 7mm Hex and instead of spending all night trying to get it I decide to relax and wait for another day.


Reviewed APR TCU/DSG on this thread.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...esents-the-DQ250-DSG-amp-S-tronic-TCU-Upgrade!


Next on my list:

VAG Tool - Researching which and where to get it
Roof bars - Thinking of selling Pilot and will want these
Front sway bar - remove some lean


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

It has been a while. 

Been driving the A3 here and there. Never got to a track day due to not having the right tool for the brake job. Skipped the last few. Bought a Sea Doo RXP and GTX and have been spending the summer at the lake. Debating if I should have 3 cars. Meaning buy a E46 M3 or sell the A3 and get a E90 M3. 

No idea what a 2009 A3 with 70k is worth.


----------



## DOMIT (Oct 26, 2009)

davis_449 said:


> I would agree that the money swapping in a TT's steering wheel is better spent on a Haldex controller. Especially is the car's going to see a track. The benefits of a flat bottom steering wheel don't outweigh the benefits of a more track oriented AWD setup.


WHAT benefits of the flat bottom steering wheel? Sorry, I just don't get that as a performance improvement.


----------



## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

DOMIT said:


> WHAT benefits of the flat bottom steering wheel? Sorry, I just don't get that as a performance improvement.


Better steering with your knees


----------



## yowzaa (Jul 31, 2007)

DOMIT said:


> WHAT benefits of the flat bottom steering wheel? Sorry, I just don't get that as a performance improvement.


I don't have a FBSW, but I've always thought I would always know orientation of the wheel whenever I needed to change gears via the paddles ('spirited' driving situations). A round wheel does not give you the tactile feedback that allows you to know where the upshift or down shift paddles are located. This is a benefit that only comes with a DSG equipped car, of course.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I just love the feel of the flat bottom wheel. I also don't have shift control on the steering wheel at this time. 

I really wish my A3 could pull my Seadoo's About 1800lbs.


----------



## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

A3owner said:


> I just love the feel of the flat bottom wheel. I also don't have shift control on the steering wheel at this time.
> 
> I really wish my A3 could pull my Seadoo's About 1800lbs.


What are we limited too? Shoulda got a TDI or the VR


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Ponto said:


> What are we limited too? Shoulda got a TDI or the VR


I have no idea. I am pulling them with my 2004 Honda Pilot. I worry the A3 would like that extra weight. I have been thinking maybe I could upgrading the cooling and brakes on the A3 for towing Sea Doo's and it will help on the track too. 

Anyone else tow with these?


----------



## DOMIT (Oct 26, 2009)

krazyboi said:


> Better steering with your knees


Or more "headroom?" :laugh:



yowzaa said:


> I don't have a FBSW, but I've always thought I would always know orientation of the wheel whenever I needed to change gears via the paddles ('spirited' driving situations). A round wheel does not give you the tactile feedback that allows you to know where the upshift or down shift paddles are located. This is a benefit that only comes with a DSG equipped car, of course.


Hmmm... I guess that is a valid point... just barely.



A3owner said:


> I just love the feel of the flat bottom wheel. I also don't have shift control on the steering wheel at this time.
> 
> I really wish my A3 could pull my Seadoo's About 1800lbs.


If you like the feel, I guess that is the best reason of all. I personally like the round one. 

As for towing... I think it is limited to like 85% of gross weight. 3000#+ according to what I was able to find on the web. I know they tow "caravans" (small RV trailers) with them in Europe. 



Ponto said:


> What are we limited too? Shoulda got a TDI or the VR


See above. And these links- not links in the U.S. though.

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasing/audi/a3/towing-weight-limit/

http://www.towcar.info/gebruikservaring.php?merk=Audi&serie=A3



A3owner said:


> I have no idea. I am pulling them with my 2004 Honda Pilot. I worry the A3 would like that extra weight. I have been thinking maybe I could upgrading the cooling and brakes on the A3 for towing Sea Doo's and it will help on the track too.
> 
> Anyone else tow with these?


Again... see above... or just google.

Disclaimer: I'm not towing with mine (yet) but I've looked around for exactly that info.


----------



## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

Now that you mention it my host family when I was on student exchange had a 2 door A3 and towed a trailer with it all the time. Utility trailer, hauled lumber, firewood, windsurfing gear etc.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I have not really found anything that says what it can pull. I feel if I go down to one Seadoo instead of 2 this would be no problem. I would prefer a 2 inch hitch though for more options on rear cargo racks.


----------



## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Re: towing, my manual says class 1 or class 2 weight limit. The Curt hitch that I got is a class 1, which is 2000 lb tow weight and 200 lb tongue weight. Class 2 is 3500 lbs tow weight with 350 lb tongue weight. The Westfalia hitch seems to be a hybrid Class 1/2 rating with 3500 tow weight and 200 lb tongue weight.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

JRutter said:


> Re: towing, my manual says class 1 or class 2 weight limit. The Curt hitch that I got is a class 1, which is 2000 lb tow weight and 200 lb tongue weight. Class 2 is 3500 lbs tow weight with 350 lb tongue weight. The Westfalia hitch seems to be a hybrid Class 1/2 rating with 3500 tow weight and 200 lb tongue weight.


Thanks! I just don't feel comfortable towing both SeaDoo's behind it. It has the power, but worry about the brakes and just how the Pilot can be shifted by the extra weight.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Drove a new 2015 GTI last weekend. I came away unimpressed. I was thinking it would be quiet and quicker. It didn't do anything for me, but I really liked 2 things. 

EXHAUST NOTE - My car has BB DP with cat and stock exhaust. It is a little raspy. The GTI just had a nice sound to it. What is the best sounding exhaust I can get that is not loud on highway?

PADDLE SHIFTERS - My car is the base. No steering wheel. I really liked having the paddles. It would make having the APR DSG tune more beneficial.
http://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-b7-platform-discussion-69/adding-shift-paddles-2672048/


Also stopped at Audi Dealer and drove a used FOCUS ST. Fun car. I could see one if if had a bigger back seat. When waiting for the keys they had a new A3 on the floor. Interior and exterior look pretty boring. I would love to
check out the S3, but they are sold out.


----------



## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

A3owner said:


> Drove a new 2105 GTI last weekend. I came away unimpressed. I was thinking it would be quiet and quicker. It didn't do anything for me,


This makes me sad. I was really expecting the GTI to be my next car. I can't think of a single other car that interests me. (For a reasonable price)


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

MisterJJ said:


> This makes me sad. I was really expecting the GTI to be my next car. I can't think of a single other car that interests me. (For a reasonable price)


Just because I don't car for it doesn't mean you won't. Something about it just didn't jive with me. Then I look at the window sticker and what my A3 is worth and think that buys hell of a lot of Vodka.


----------



## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

A3owner said:


> Just because I don't car for it doesn't mean you won't.


 Yes, but I am fearful that I will not love the new GTI and the A3 has got me spoiled about loving the car I drive. I don't want to compromise on a car I don't love, although I'm sure I would get used to it, as I've done before.

My first love was my first new car, an '86 GTI and my A3 was my second, but more intense love. There were a few vehicles before and in-between those (LTD, Baja Bug, Bug, Sirocco, Rebel, Kadett, Jetta, Jetta), but no other loves.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

MisterJJ said:


> Yes, but I am fearful that I will not love the new GTI and the A3 has got me spoiled about loving the car I drive. I don't want to compromise on a car I don't love, although I'm sure I would get used to it, as I've done before.
> 
> My first love was my first new car, an '86 GTI and my A3 was my second, but more intense love. There were a few vehicles before and in-between those (LTD, Baja Bug, Bug, Sirocco, Rebel, Kadett, Jetta, Jetta), but no other loves.


I get it. I was thinking it would be a leap forward from the AP. To me it was not. I need to drive a TT again. I really liked them and that it was lead me to the A3 as something more partical.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

*Update*

Had the valves walnut blasted. Put in a 3 spoke wheel. Feels much better. A little smaller and meater rim. 
Need to research how much a VCDS will run me and which I would need. I need to change the coding for the 
paddle shifters from 0010042 to 0014142

I have been getting the code "P2188 - System too Rich at Idle". Tried changing the PCV Diaphragm and
that didn't help. It certainly changed how it idled at first. Here is where I got the part:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CFJT6AE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Any other ideas on this. Seems to be a ton of things it could be. Thinking next item would be 02 sensor. 

Thoughts?


----------



## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

A3owner said:


> Had the valves walnut blasted. Put in a 3 spoke wheel. Feels much better. A little smaller and meater rim.
> Need to research how much a VCDS will run me and which I would need. I need to change the coding for the
> paddle shifters from 0010042 to 0014142
> 
> ...



when I had that code, I cleaned the charge pipe, also changed the fuel filter, and finally what I think got rid of the code was a Liqui Moly injectors cleaner in the half filled gas tank. 
my .02


----------



## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

A3owner said:


> Had the valves walnut blasted. Put in a 3 spoke wheel. Feels much better. A little smaller and meater rim.
> Need to research how much a VCDS will run me and which I would need. I need to change the coding for the
> paddle shifters from 0010042 to 0014142
> 
> ...


Check for vacuum leaks. Start at the intake manifold and work your way back toward the turbo.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for the ideas. Dumped a can of Sea Foam in the gas tank and ordered some moly injector cleaner. 

Any good advice on how to check for leaks?


----------



## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Soapy water test is easiest DIY, or if you have the means, do a smoke test. Google it. Tons of stuff out there on how. Focus on connection areas. Also, since your intake manifold was removed recently, I would focus on making sure it's seated properly and not cracked or anything.


----------



## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

A3owner said:


> Any good advice on how to check for leaks?


I always start with the ear test. Just get your ear as close as possible to anywhere there may be a leak and listen for any extra whooshing/whistling (Careful with long hair/loose clothing around belt/fan!). Then try a stethoscope with open end or just a tube stuck up to one ear (not in!) and move the open end around to potential leak spots. If that doesn't work, then try the more official methods. If I do find a suspected leak point, try pushing/pulling on whatever fitting/connection/tube may be leaking and see if the sound changes.

Of course there's always the carb cleaner method if you wanna qualify for a Darwin award.


----------



## BeeAlk (Jun 3, 2013)

npace said:


> Soapy water test is easiest DIY, or if you have the means, do a smoke test. Google it. Tons of stuff out there on how. Focus on connection areas. Also, since your intake manifold was removed recently, I would focus on making sure it's seated properly and not cracked or anything.





MisterJJ said:


> I always start with the ear test. Just get your ear as close as possible to anywhere there may be a leak and listen for any extra whooshing/whistling (Careful with long hair/loose clothing around belt/fan!). Then try a stethoscope with open end or just a tube stuck up to one ear (not in!) and move the open end around to potential leak spots. If that doesn't work, then try the more official methods. If I do find a suspected leak point, try pushing/pulling on whatever fitting/connection/tube may be leaking and see if the sound changes.
> 
> Of course there's always the carb cleaner method if you wanna qualify for a Darwin award.


Many years ago I had a friend help me find a leak. He helped by taking huge bong hits and billowing the smoke around the engine bay. 

Easy and fun :thumbup:


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Reminds me of my days troubleshooting leaks on my MR2 Turbo.

Thing runs like crap since I put the new PCV diaphragm on. I don't see how it would effect it unless there is something wrong with the one I bought.

Anyways I am dropping it off at a shop here to have them play with it. It is winter and I won't be able to get time to look at it for months.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Cel fixed. It was a leaking exhaust gasket off Turbo. I don't think it was right since the day I put the K04 on. I have not driven it a ton, but it was slowly getting louder. Car is now how I wanted it when I did the kit. Stock like quiet and actually is faster then it ever was before. A little disappointed in the shop that did the original work. I think they used the same gasket over when we tried different DP's. 

Now since someone wrecked my family car Honda Pilot I am debating on making the A3 the fulltime DD. It is roomy enough for most days, but it will need a trailer hitch to pull my Seadoo RXP and likely some type of roof box for gear. Any one got a suggestion for these things? 

-Looking for something quiet that won't make a ton of wind noise
-Removable would be nice
-Fits in garage without removing.

Starting my search here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...post-your-roof-rack-setup&highlight=roof+rack

Another topic: I am in the market for a new weekend car. Settled on BMW E46 M3. Coupe and Manual a must. Let me know if anyone has a lead on a stock sub 85k mile one without red/cinnamon interior. Budget of up to 25k for 2004-2005. Budget up to 18k for 2001-03.


----------



## lausch (Mar 29, 2002)

A3owner said:


> ...some type of roof box for gear. Any one got a suggestion for these things?
> 
> -Looking for something quiet that won't make a ton of wind noise
> -Removable would be nice
> ...


There's also Audizine's Show Me Your Box thread.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

lausch said:


> There's also Audizine's Show Me Your Box thread.


Thanks! I am also wondering if I could add a box to my Sea Doo trailer. Most of the time I would need storage would be when I am pulling them for life jackets and gas can. 

I could see a hitch mounted storage solution for other times.


----------



## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Forgot to mention I got winter wheels and snow tires. I will have to get some picks.

Wheels








http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Qu...ys/Alzor_Wheels/18_inch/Square_Set/ES2207752/

Tires








CHAMPIRO WINTERPRO HP - STUDLESS WINTER PERFORMANCE
WinterPro HP is GT Radial's performance winter tire developed to meet the needs of drivers who want to retain the handling and precision of their high and ultra high performance sports cars, sedans, or coupes during winter conditions.
4 new snow tires for less then $300. 

Center Caps (domed stickers)
Photo -http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/g4YAAOxy4eJTPE5N/$_57.JPG
I have had them on over a month and went through 4 or 5 car washes without them coming off. Look good. I orded a backup set in the event one came off. Good solution for these OEM looking wheels that will not accept OEM center caps. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291320102952?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Next up is planning for trailer hitch and wiring.

Planning on this hitch.
Photo -http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/7138B5%2BkrgL._SL1500_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003PIARSE...lid=19EVNHEVEH0Q4&coliid=I2YJ8XH3EY61J0&psc=1


Wiring - No clue not sure they even make a plug in solution

PS - couldn't get image resizing to work on last 2 items.


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

Hey a3 owner , thanks for maintaining this thread. I just bought a grey metallic a3 2.0t q for the same reason (and didn't want to buy a brand new car)

Here's what I've already done in the first week:
Apr stage 1 tune
Carbonio stage 1 instake
Repaired various interior failures

Supporting mods:
Hardwire valentine v1 

I would be very interested to know how you like the cup kit after while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

t83 said:


> Hey a3 owner , thanks for maintaining this thread. I just bought a grey metallic a3 2.0t q for the same reason (and didn't want to buy a brand new car)
> 
> Here's what I've already done in the first week:
> Apr stage 1 tune
> ...



Cupkit is great. At first it felt a little stiffer then I wanted, but I have had numerous people ride in it and nobody has complained or even noticed I had done anything. It certainly does handle a lot better. I am thinking I will add the front bar this spring.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

I have been thinking lately how can I get a little more power out of the A3. I know that at this point I am going to add noise and it will go away from stockish sound. I saw the Twintake Air Intake System and 
think that might be the next step. Not sure if I actually would see the claimed 17hp gain or not over stock box with K&N filter. 

Thoughts? Anyone heard one in person to know how much noise it adds? 

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Performance/Intake/ES2576230/

Other thought has been adding an oil cooler. It would be nice to have that if I ever did get around to tracking it and I notice in the summers oil temp during normal driving rises pretty quickly with a little aggressive driving.


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

Air filter makes a big difference on the tsi engine, I got the stage 1 carbonio and you can definitely hear way more , nice little grunt to it. Most people on the forums agree the bottleneck on the engine is the knstake followed by the downpipe. Cat back is just for noise.

Really surprised you didn't spring for one while getting the k04 , to get the best power for that I would definitely upgrade the intercooler,dp and intake. It will make a world of difference


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

t83 said:


> Air filter makes a big difference on the tsi engine, I got the stage 1 carbonio and you can definitely hear way more , nice little grunt to it. Most people on the forums agree the bottleneck on the engine is the knstake followed by the downpipe. Cat back is just for noise.
> 
> Really surprised you didn't spring for one while getting the k04 , to get the best power for that I would definitely upgrade the intercooler,dp and intake. It will make a world of difference


To me it was all about noise and giving a visual clue that this is not a a stock car. To this point in the build it looks and feels stock. This might be the tipoing point. 

So is the Twintake worth it or are there other simpler cleaner intakes that will give similar results?


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

A3owner said:


> To me it was all about noise. So is the Twintake worth it or are there other simpler cleaner intakes that will give similar results?


This looks promising

http://www.uspmotorsports.com/VWR-2.0TSI-Transverse-Cold-Air-Intake-System.html

How much of a difference is the pipe.


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

That or the carbonio stage 1&2 will work. If you like the noise I would suggest an open box with heat shield like the neuspeed pflo intake.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

t83 said:


> That or the carbonio stage 1&2 will work. If you like the noise I would suggest an open box with heat shield like the neuspeed pflo intake.


What would look the most stock under the hood. Prefer quiet and performance over just noise.


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

The vw racing or carbonio. Its just load enough to hear the growl of the engine underload, similar to the 335i


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

Carbonio Stage II TSI: http://youtu.be/ke3AT5FstKI


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Ordered Stage 1 Carbonio Cold Air Intake.

Think about this for oil cooler. Not sure how this would look installed and where. 

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Engine/Performance/Cooling/ES2764288/


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

Do you have an intercooler? If not I would start their for power gains. Also if you are are going to track it investing in Porsche Cayenne/ toureag brakes


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

Btw cheers on the Apr purchase, I was really happy with my purchase, feel free to shoot me any questions you might have about installation.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

t83 said:


> Do you have an intercooler? If not I would start their for power gains. Also if you are are going to track it investing in Porsche Cayenne/ toureag brakes


I have an APR Intercooler knockoff. I did that with the K04. I really am thinking I will get a E46 M3 for track days if I can ever find one.


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

Haha finding one in good shape that hasn't been tackily modified is nearing unicorn status.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

t83 said:


> Haha finding one in good shape that hasn't been tackily modified is nearing unicorn status.


I know. I have seen 2 really clean stock ones, but didn't like the color combos. My budget for one is pretty close to just finding a decent used Cayman S.


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

In the end the answer is miata... With a v8 swap


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

t83 said:


> In the end the answer is miata... With a v8 swap


One problem - Convertible

FRS or BRZ with V8 sounds about right.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Stage 1 Carbonio Cold Air Intake is in. Fit was pretty good. I need to play with it some more thought. I can't get the holes to line up with the stock ram intake to line up. It was 0 degrees outside and my heater was not having much luck heating the garage up past freezing. 

I did take it for a drive. I think I can feel the difference and barely can even hear a difference. Sounds is perfect for me. I might plasti-dip it flat black to look more stock.


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

So you have the same problem I had, to get mine to fit perfect I trim the tabs about 1/4 inch from each side and got it in. It was a really pain in the ass to get both screws in


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

t83 said:


> So you have the same problem I had, to get mine to fit perfect I trim the tabs about 1/4 inch from each side and got it in. It was a really pain in the ass to get both screws in


That is good to know. I would expect a little better fitment for the money. What did you use to trim it?


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

Hacksaw. And I agree, I expected better from Apr.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

When it comes to intake noise nothing beat my MR2. Open K&N intake right behind your head. Perfect location and the rush of forced air just was so awesome. I like how this is quiet for the car it is in. My 2 was built more track focused then daily driver.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Anyone know if I should get my tune updated now that I have the APR Stage 1 intake?


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

What kind of tune do you have right now?


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

t83 said:


> What kind of tune do you have right now?


APR Tune for my K04/DP/IC and APR DSG tune.


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

You won't need a retune. A few days runnings with the CAI and it'll adjust


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## t83 (Jan 28, 2015)

BTW you got pics of your ride?


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

yeah or disconnect the battery for a couple of minutes, it will adapt to the new intake. I read somewhere that this is necessary when installing an intake.


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## mbenno (Mar 3, 2014)

*Hitch*

FYI on the hitch install, you will have issues with your quattro:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Hitch-Install-Quattro&p=87268327#post87268327


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

mbenno said:


> FYI on the hitch install, you will have issues with your quattro:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Hitch-Install-Quattro&p=87268327#post87268327


Good to know. That would have sucked to find that out later.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

My A3 adventure is over. I sold it last month. The A3 was a great car. Best jack of all trades I ever owned. It will be missed but it is time to move on. 

When I bought the A3 I had visions of the perfect one car fits all. It semi-luxury, AWD hatchback, plenty of power, quiet, and reliable. It did all of these things very well. So what changed?

I got into PWC and the A3 just is not a good tool for towing two PWC. I hate SUV's, but upgraded mine to an Acura MDX and it does a great job of shuttling kids and just is flat out nicer then
the Audi except for in the handling and power departments. Even with an aluminium double place trailer you still can feel the big ski's behind the MDX. The A3's down fall was that is just
was to numb for me. I missed a proper manual with rwd. So I will now be in the market for something that as more of a toy then jack of all trades.

In the meantime I will have the MDX and pull around my 515hp worth of water toys. I think if I would have bought some Sea-Doo Sparks the A3 could have pulled them fine, but the RXPX and RXTX
are twice as heavy each.

Here is a copy of the ad I had for it. 

*Audi A3 2.0T Quattro - 346hp - APR Tuned - $17000*

2009 Audi A3 Quattro 2.0T is the revised version of the A3 and this car has those updates which included appearance and updated motor. This was the first year of the 2.0T and it is fairly hard to find these with the quattro and TSI motor. The early cars with quattro only came with V6's and a majority of A3's are FWD only. If you can only have one car this car is very hard to beat. It is reliable, fast, economical, versatile. and has a little luxury thrown in. The car is adult driven and has not been tracked. (I have wanted to, but just have not made the time)

I bought the car from the original owner with 66k on it. It is low option slick top car with DSG. I bought it with the plan to make it a better Golf R with a DSG. Mission accomplished. It drives like it came off the factory floor this way. It is very civil and quiet, but does everything better then the standard Audi A3 Quattro. No cells. No problems. No headaches. Just enjoy.

What has been done to it?

I worked with Nurtechnik an authorized APR dealer to do all of the work. To address the lack of factory power I had them install the APR K04 Turbo System. I coupled that with Billy Boat Downpipe, Godspeed Intercooler (APR Knockoff), and APR Intake. This really woke up the car power. I then had the transmission programming updated with APR's specs. This really makes the car much more enjoyable to drive since it manages shifts so well compared to stock settings. Finally after adding better power I improved the handling. I added light Neuspeed RSe07 wheels with agressive Hankook summer tires. The suspension was upgraded with the Sport Cup Kit and H&R rear sway bar. It rides firm, but not harsh. The build was done right with no corner cutting. Included with the car all the stock parts to put it back and a set of Audi Blade knockoffs you see on TT's with winter tires. Painted rear S-Type spoiler and aggressive brake pads. 

PART DESCRIPTIONS

APR 2.0 TSI/TFSI K04 Turbocharger System-
True to APR's mantra of Performance without Compromise the days of shredding tires on front wheel drive vehicles are rapidly disappearing thanks to the new Gold Standard in ECU torque management calibration strategies only APR can deliver. Compressor surge is avoided to increase the reliability of the system without limiting the area under the curve typically experienced during a top speed acceleration run. APR's endless pursuit of perfection has resulted in the most comprehensive 2.0 TSI K04 turbocharger system and tuning package in the world. Using 93-octane fuel, the APR K04 Turbocharger System produces an astonishing 360 horsepower and 382 ft-lbs of torque. Unlike the factory turbocharger, power stays strong and doesn't dramatically taper towards the vehicle's new 7,100 RPM redline. Switching to APR's 100 octane race fuel mode, peak power and torque climb further to 375 horsepower and 408 ft-lbs of torque. APR's calibration experts have safely maximized the full power potential of the turbocharger unit, while keeping reliability at the forefront of their calibration strategies.

APR DQ250 DSG & S tronic TCU Upgrade -
APR's TCU upgrade enhances the driving experience by incorporating many of the same features typically reserved for high-end Audi Quattro GmbH RS models. Under blistering, wide-open throttle acceleration, the transmission shifts even more quickly than before with a higher rev limit. However, during normal, day-to-day driving, the TCU Upgrade delivers a smooth, yet responsive and refined driving experience.

NEUSPEED RSe07 -
The NEUSPEED RSe07 is a light weight alloy wheel with unmatched quality, perfectly spec-ed for your car. With its design adapted from the European touring challenge cars and weighing just a mere 19.3 Lbs., the RSe07 will enhance your driving experience cosmetically as well as performance by reducing the rotational mass or unsprung weight.

Sport Cup Kit-
Improve overall handling and performance while lowering your vehicle, for the look you want. This cup kit includes H&R sport springs with an average lowering height of 1.3" in the front and 1.3" in the rear, paired with Bilstein sport shocks & struts for enhanced steering, comfort, and feel. This combination is great for street and occasional track use, with a firmer spring rate than factory sport springs.

Links
Shop work was done at - http://www.nurtechnik.com/
KO4 - http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans_20_tsi_k04.html
TCU - http://www.goapr.com/products/tcu_upgrade_dq250_exx_fxx.html
Sport Cup Kit - http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-Quattro-2.0T/Suspension/Cup_Kits/ES11410/
RSe07 - http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen...Aftermarket_Alloys/Neuspeed_Wheels/ES2841102/


Why am I selling?
I bought it planning to only have one car. Now I have an SUV for hauling kids and towing my toys so I want to find an M3(E46 or E90), 135i, or 335i sedan with manual. I am in no hurry to get rid of it. 

I got $16500 for it with 76k on it.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Updating this old thread. I wish I had my A3 back at this point. Bought a 335i 6MT that I rarely drive. Sold the MDX and bought an Xterra PROX-4 because I was looking for something more rugged and better at towing. Bought a Yamaha AR210 Jetboat and still have a pair of Yamaha Waverunners in a FX SVHO Cruiser and Riva build FZR. 

The BMW is great, but I never thought I would say this, but I don't drive it much because it is a manual. I miss the jack of all trades A3 and likely would be driving it a lot more then the BMW. So now I am considering a MK7 GTI.


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## oldmandt (Dec 26, 2006)

A3owner said:


> Updating this old thread. I wish I had my A3 back at this point. Bought a 335i 6MT that I rarely drive. Sold the MDX and bought an Xterra PROX-4 because I was looking for something more rugged and better at towing. Bought a Yamaha AR210 Jetboat and still have a pair of Yamaha Waverunners in a FX SVHO Cruiser and Riva build FZR.
> 
> The BMW is great, but I never thought I would say this, but I don't drive it much because it is a manual. I miss the jack of all trades A3 and likely would be driving it a lot more then the BMW. So now I am considering a MK7 GTI.


The MK7s have a lot of great improvements. Would not be a bad idea. I can see why you miss your A3 by your thread.
-The stock IS20 turbo on stage 2 is close to K04 power. 
-The engine now has 8 fuel injectors so you can go big power with all injectors pushing fuel into the motor. 
-The turbo bolts right onto the engine block instead an exhaust manifold so it is very easy to swap the turbo out. 
-UM took a fuel sensor that can tell what fuel you are putting into the car and it can adjust the tune automatically. Say you are running on E85 but are in an area that has 87 octane, you are fine. Put in the 87 and away you go. 
-The stock suspension is pretty good. A guy in my local auto cross is going up against MK6 with a lot suspension mods and he holds his own.
-The stock engine seems to be able to handle more power then the Gen 1 TSI in our A3s.
-You can put on an IS38(Golf R/S3 Turbo) turbo and go for 400 Crank Horse Power!


I don't think I am going to part with my A3 Quattro DSG for a while. I may go K04 one day like you did. I have a lot of suspension mods and brake mods and I have a downpipe, intake, intercoller as my main upgrades. I am happy with it.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

oldmandt said:


> I don't think I am going to part with my A3 Quattro DSG for a while. I may go K04 one day like you did. I have a lot of suspension mods and brake mods and I have a downpipe, intake, intercoller as my main upgrades. I am happy with it.


I always wondered what it would have been like without the KO4. Since I went from stock to done I never got to see what individual parts did. I remember one of the best parts about the car was it felt stock, but that also was kind of strange since
I had done quit a bit to it. I tried finding the owner I sold it to, but my search came up empty. I know the general area the car is in, but that is it.


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## A3owner (Dec 31, 2013)

Sold my BMW 335i 6MT Thinking next car is Passat R-Line. Like the looks, mpg, and back seat for kids. Needs a little more power and attitude.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

No Sportback, no care. 

I wish I could decide a replacement but nothing interests me. My A3 is coming up on 13 years old and the wife is pushing me to get something new or at least newer. Still love driving VW/Audi cars but I think I'm too jaded after being screwed over so many times and I'm sick of the constant maintenance issues.


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