# C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

Guys, just looking to see personal experience from similar setups. 
I'm looking for responses from guys who have a C2 flash tune, 8.5:1 head spacer, and completely stock bottom ends. The big question... how reliable has your setup been?
How much time and miles have you had on it? What's your exact setup like? Turbo, exhaust, intercooler, water/meth?, fuel upgrades, drivetrain setups, etc.
After 2 engines, I'm on my 3rd. I tried it at 10:1 at 10psig and it lasted about 3 months on avg. of doing about 4,000 miles a month. 
Thanks guys.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

I ran C2 42# Flash Tune, at first I ran ~10psi stock motor for quite a few road/highway miles.. but then I got cocky and raced it after ~10k miles being reliable, my own ****up caused a boost spike and I swallowed most of my valves. 
Got a new head, I then dropped my compression with the 8.5:1 spacer & ARP headbolts, everything else stock mechnically.. got an EBC & Water Meth and tuned it for ~380whp, not only did I daily drive it for year I also drove it all around the country on long road trips far from home, completely reliable.... however, this made me confident to race it again, so I quickly destroyed my transmission.. after rebuilding and upgrading my o2j I simply refused to launch/beat on it that hard anymore and it held together fine. 
Only other breakage was @ sea-level I sheered the bolts off my vf-dogbone mount that was 3mo's old and they refused to warranty it, the event was the result of a massive boost spike (29psi) again from my own fault (ebc's need retuned for altitude) but the stock motor held together fine.. I suspect the meth helped alot but I gave it a good checkover and compression and all were still excellent.
This was all done on budget, being as frugal as possible.. I had my share of misery but I just built upon it and enjoyed every step of it.. that was until I sold nearly everything off and decided to start over, probably because it was too reliable and I was getting bored heh.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (Weiss)*

lets be realistic. there are more than a 100 guys on here running spacers with stock bottom ends, with no problems.
perhaps you should list why your two motors failed, and people could offer you proper advice.








p.s. my car was stock compression, non-intercooled, 7psi for 6 years.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
After 2 engines, I'm on my 3rd. I tried it at 10:1 at 10psig and it lasted about 3 months on avg. of doing about 4,000 miles a month. 
Thanks guys. 









im on my 3rd as well... 
-1st was stock vr6 @10:1 with 10psi = spun rod bearing... ( 3 months)
-2nd was stock vr6 with headspacer @ 9:1 = wiring lost connection at the inline fuel pump and melted some pistons...lol ( 7 months) 
-3rd same setup as second 
...(PT61 turbo, 3" exhaust with cutout, FMIC, devilsown Water/meth kit, Lugtronics ECU, [email protected], walbro inline, stock trans 
w/quaife... so far so good







but going with a built bottom by fall...


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## VeeRar6ix (Apr 5, 2007)

thats is why I totally stripped my motor and double checked everything before assembling although its a stock motor with 8.5:1 CR
Rings, bearings, pistons (stock), clearences, valves all renwed.
I just dont have the guts to run a junkyard motor to whatever HP without knowing its history or if there's ticking timebomb inside somewhere...


_Modified by VeeRar6ix at 12:40 AM 1-22-2010_


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_lets be realistic. there are more than a 100 guys on here running spacers with stock bottom ends, with no problems.
perhaps you should list why your two motors failed, and people could offer you proper advice.








p.s. my car was stock compression, non-intercooled, 7psi for 6 years.

Agreed, its been well established to be a reliable setup.. just be aware of the limits and leave your self some margin of safety, that is unless you have to break something to justify upgrading it (hope my wife dont find this post







)
It also helps alot to learn from your mistakes.. so yea the big question is what are you doing to blow your motors and maby we can give you more specific advice on how to avoid it from happening again


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## adaptorman (Dec 12, 2007)

just had a read of this post reason is because having crank/bearing issuises from the 24v 3.2/2.8 24v engines runing from 8psi to 27psi and stock internals, with the 8.5 spacer havnt been very reilable tbh guys , , as ive not only found this to a problem common on the 24v engines, ive evern heard from plenty off here they also have had crank bearing failure,or spun bearings , so after 3 engines , ive decided to go for old 12v vr6 engine from the for galaxy cd-v6 /same engine and add a the 8.5 compression drop and make a couple of new turbo manifolds to see if it anymore reliable then these 24v , odd in a way as the 12/24v share the same cranks/rods,, maybe older vr cranks have something differnert but what im unsure , maybe the bearing are made from differnert matrails, this is only a thought guys


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## VeeRar6ix (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: (adaptorman)*

that makes my choice even sweeter since I originally wanted to boosted a stock 24v








anyways, could it not be that they used cheaper materials to produce the crank for the 24v seeing they overspec'd the earlier 12v cranks... just a thought


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## IHookItUuup (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: (VeeRar6ix)*

I've found the C2 tune to be very reliable! Up and running more than a year on 9:1. It is a conservative tune, idles great, and mid-throttle control is great as well. You will be happy with it - I'm sure that they have addressed any shortcomings in later versions of their software.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (adaptorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adaptorman* »_just had a read of this post reason is because having crank/bearing issuises from the 24v 3.2/2.8 24v engines runing from 8psi to 27psi and stock internals, with the 8.5 spacer havnt been very reilable tbh guys , , as ive not only found this to a problem common on the 24v engines, ive evern heard from plenty off here they also have had crank bearing failure,or spun bearings , so after 3 engines , ive decided to go for old 12v vr6 engine from the for galaxy cd-v6 /same engine and add a the 8.5 compression drop and make a couple of new turbo manifolds to see if it anymore reliable then these 24v , odd in a way as the 12/24v share the same cranks/rods,, maybe older vr cranks have something differnert but what im unsure , maybe the bearing are made from differnert matrails, this is only a thought guys 

doesnt matter if its 12v or 24v, a poorly put together motor isnt going to last.
you really need to spend some time with punctuation and spelling, your posts are incredibly difficult to read and understand.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

Well my only thoughts on why I've been eating engines was it was too much cylinder pressure... I had no way of datalogging so I had no idea what was going on. 
I just think it was pushed too far. At 10:1 there's not a lot of room for error. It can be done safely, but I just didnt have the equipment. 
TBT, I havent seen or heard of many people pushing their limits on the VR6 with 10:1 compression... Any examples? Just curious to see what I've been doing wrong. 
If this helps. 1st, original engine, had about 75,000 miles on it, gave it half throttle in 1st gear in mid boost and shot #1 rod through 3 sections of the block. Also found the piston skirt torn apart and the wrist pin broke in 4 pieces. 
2nd engine, had 65,000 miles on it, wrapping out 3rd gear on the highway blew the headgasket on a few cylinders and found a few spun bearings, even though I shut if off right away... 
Here's the dyno on the 1st engine... it appears as though it was detonating and the ECU was pulling and adding timing.











_Modified by Weiss at 11:12 PM 1-22-2010_


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

> 330hp @ 10psi is pretty impressive, I would agree you seem be at your compression limits with nearly no room for error.. on stock compression I'd of backed off to 280-300hp for reliability
If you run an 8.5:1 HG Spacer you should be able to push it to ~400hp and be pretty safe, if you have detonation issues back off the boost and look at upgrading your IC and/or adding Water/Meth to the mix.
I think a great investment would be a VAG-COM or equivalent that will let you monitor your timing/detonation.
Good luck,
-R


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_ 
TBT, I havent seen or heard of many people pushing their limits on the VR6 with 10:1 compression... Any examples? Just curious to see what I've been doing wrong. 


have any pics of the pistons from any of the motors? those will give you lots of insight into what is going on.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
have any pics of the pistons from any of the motors? those will give you lots of insight into what is going on.

Sure do...


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## VeteRan6 (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Weiss)*


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (Weiss)*

Built one for a friend of mine with 9.0:1 spacer and arp hardware. walbro inline pump, c2 42# software. We run a holset hx52 turbo and it sees 20psi daily. No problems so far in 6 months and we try to kill it


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## Cuyler12VGLXVR6T (Jun 13, 2006)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (Weiss)*

20,000 miles on 10psi, 
20,000 miles on 15psi,
20,000 miles on 20psi,
24psi on occasion
stock bottom end, C2 630cc file, 9:1 compression, AWIC and water/meth
116000 miles.

Absolutely no motor issues yet,
Only transmission rebuilds


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## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

this makes me quite happy to start my build...


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## Rckymtskier87 (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: (charlie hayes)*

Wow some people on here have had some bad luck. My personal experience. Put turbo kit on @ 115,000 miles and drove 27K hard miles between 14-21psi no engine problems when I sold it...still going strong down in FL as far as I know. Its all about not letting them get hot and keeping up with oil changes/lil crap. I will always be a fan of the stock 12 valve when looking for under 500whp. Really how much more can you use in a vw platform. This was with headspacer/C2 greentop tune. 
I did however need to replace the timimg chains 2 times to keep the motor to my noise level.


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (Cuyler12VGLXVR6T)*

I installed my C2 setup at 176k miles about a year ago. 60-1, 8.5:11, Eurojet SMIC, and I started at 8# of boost. I'm at 205k now, and pushing 20# on a daily basis. The only issue I had was when I changed my air filter. I went from a K&N to a cheap ass Spectre filter since it was the only 4" I could find. All of a sudden I was running very lean in boost; got a new K&N drop shipped, and all my problems went away. I'm very happy with the setup - haven't dyno'd at 20#, but I expect 400+ whp.
Mike


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

Awesome guys... Really great to see more people keeping it reliable at such power levels. 
I've been getting a lot of flak locally due to my bad luck (2 blown engines, and now another stock one) and not building a built engine. However, this way has only cost me $650. Honestly still comes out cheaper than forged pistons and H-beam rods alone. 
If I'm blowing trannies







every few months that's no big deal. It's a lot cheaper and simpler to just swap transaxles than engines. I do plan to drag race it this year.


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

i'm running it since yesterday, all stock block, 8.5 head spacer, all bolts stock.
Engine has already seen 35.000 km's with a turbo on 7psi. we'll see how long it'll keep going.
got my BC on 15psi right now, and i'm loving it








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D768cG4yfYo


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*

if you put slicks on it, goodbye diff. ask me how i know


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (hyperformancevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hyperformancevw* »_if you put slicks on it, goodbye diff. ask me how i know









It's a perfect time to put a Peloquin in while you are digging the broken teeth from 3rd gear out of the flywheel surface








Mike


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (pimS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pimS* »_i'm running it since yesterday, all stock block, 8.5 head spacer, all bolts stock.
Engine has already seen 35.000 km's with a turbo on 7psi. we'll see how long it'll keep going.
got my BC on 15psi right now, and i'm loving it








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D768cG4yfYo

In the video, that was 15psi right? F*ckin nasty! Serious traction problems though. lol


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
In the video, that was 15psi right? F*ckin nasty! Serious traction problems though. lol


Wait till you turn it up. I have problems hooking up in 3rd with my peloquin.
Mike


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
In the video, that was 15psi right? F*ckin nasty! Serious traction problems though. lol


yeah that was 15psi, with 3 people in the car








Take in mind that it was -5 degrees celcius outside, cold ass tires + road.
O Yeah ...and i'm running nangkang tires






















Needz lsd, toyo proxes & 20psi:+ 


_Modified by pimS at 3:19 PM 1-26-2010_


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (hyperformancevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hyperformancevw* »_Built one for a friend of mine with 9.0:1 spacer and arp hardware. walbro inline pump, c2 42# software. We run a holset hx52 turbo and it sees 20psi daily. No problems so far in 6 months and we try to kill it









This will be my setup in a couple of months w/ a to4e .69 instead of the Holset so I'll be sure to report.
I've been running ~10-12 psi on stock 10:1 compression, intercooled, no meth for 2 years w/ no issues. That's leaning it out to 12.8-13:1 on race gas for more power etc. 
Get a good wideband, use quality parts, a good oil, and make sure the engine's in top shape and you should be fine. 
I've been looking for a MK3 VR for a daily for over a year now and I can't tell you how many have blown motors, junkyard motors, on their 3rd, 4th, or 5th motor etc. These are all NA cars too. I don't know what people do to these things. I think 99% of it is owner neglect. Lack of maintenance, shoddy installs, cheap parts, failing to replace things before they fail(timing chains etc.), overrevs, driving through water, running too much boost, etc. Do things right or you will have problems


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (slc92)*

i saw a guy with a mk4 hydrolock two in a row & the third was back in it in no time


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## gtibunny8v (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (Weiss)*

A lot of your trouble running the #42 software is it has timing for lower compression. Ive run the #36 software that has timing for stock compression at 12 psi on a 100k mile stock engine. After 30k miles the engine still has perfect compression and almost
no leak down.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (EL DRIFTO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL DRIFTO* »_i saw a guy with a mk4 hydrolock two in a row & the third was back in it in no time

I hate to generalize, but who breaks their own toys? Kids.
I'm on my 4th VR and soon to be a 5th. I've never had one single engine failure/problem besides normal maintenance items and some oil burning from 15 yr. old valve seals. That's NA, SC, and VRT.
That's including a 2nd gear redline into 1st gear massive overrev on stock valve springs. No engine damage.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: (Weiss)*

12 psi on C2 30# tune stock motor with 125k for the last 6 months, 10 psi for three months before that. Third gear pull to Work everyday. Runs like a champ at 12.1 afr's, though I don't think I will push my luck any further. 


_Modified by GinsterMan98 at 8:15 PM 1-26-2010_


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (slc92)*

slc92, your my inspiration btw. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (GinsterMan98)*

What if i don't have c2....can i still hang out?


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (05JettaGLXVR6)*

Aint gots the money for Lugtronic, or I would be their for sure. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
doesnt matter if its 12v or 24v, a poorly put together motor isnt going to last.
you really need to spend some time with punctuation and spelling, your posts are incredibly difficult to read and understand.









you know your a real douche bag mister know it all.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Dave926)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dave926* »_
you know your a real douche bag mister know it all. 

Careful. He writes for car magazines.


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## .LSinLV. (Nov 13, 2009)

*Re: (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_
Careful. He writes for car magazines.


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

men i really need to rebuild my BOV to a diverter...
On my old tune it was perfectly fine to run a BOV. but now it tends to stall all the time


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: C2 tuned, 8.5:1 spaced, stock VRs - Come Together (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
I've been looking for a MK3 VR for a daily for over a year now and I can't tell you how many have blown motors, junkyard motors, on their 3rd, 4th, or 5th motor etc. These are all NA cars too. I don't know what people do to these things. I think 99% of it is owner neglect. Lack of maintenance, shoddy installs, cheap parts, failing to replace things before they fail(timing chains etc.), overrevs, driving through water, running too much boost, etc. Do things right or you will have problems










Absolutely spot on http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

yeh i have no idea how people blow vr6 engine, change the oil 3-5k dont let the oil run low and dont rev to 7500 rpm lol it's not a honda 6.8k and shift lol


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Dave926)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dave926* »_
you know your a real douche bag mister know it all. 

lol.
p.s. you want to use the word "you're" not the word "your". 
your
  /yʊər, yɔr, yoʊr; unstressed yər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [yoor, yawr, yohr; unstressed yer] Show IPA
Use your in a Sentence
See images of your
Search your on the Web
–pronoun
1. (a form of the possessive case of you used as an attributive adjective): Your jacket is in that closet. I like your idea. Compare yours.
2. one's (used to indicate that one belonging to oneself or to any person): The consulate is your best source of information. As you go down the hill, the library is on your left.
3. (used informally to indicate all members of a group, occupation, etc., or things of a particular type): Take your factory worker, for instance. Your power brakes don't need that much servicing.


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (adaptorman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adaptorman* »_just had a read of this post reason is because having crank/bearing issuises from the 24v 3.2/2.8 24v engines runing from 8psi to 27psi and stock internals, with the 8.5 spacer havnt been very reilable tbh guys , , as ive not only found this to a problem common on the 24v engines, ive evern heard from plenty off here they also have had crank bearing failure,or spun bearings , so after 3 engines , ive decided to go for old 12v vr6 engine from the for galaxy cd-v6 /same engine and add a the 8.5 compression drop and make a couple of new turbo manifolds to see if it anymore reliable then these 24v , odd in a way as the 12/24v share the same cranks/rods,, maybe older vr cranks have something differnert but what im unsure , maybe the bearing are made from differnert matrails, this is only a thought guys 

My 24v has over 60,000 boosted miles on it, running some various different setups over the years but the block is stock with a head gasket spacer. Never had an issue with it actually. Multiple road trips in 100 degree summer heat too. 
EDIT: I should add that the first 10k or so miles were on a GT3076 and the rest on the 3582. I daily it at 10psi most of the time but 'high boost' is currently 15-16 psi. I have a wideband in the car and am pretty conscious about watching it (it actually alerted me to a problem where my bosch 044 wasnt turning on, I have pretty much toned out the noise it makes so I didnt even notice. The car ran but would lean out in boost. Without the wideband I may not have noticed and might have done some pretty mean damage.)


_Modified by PhReE at 1:28 PM 1-29-2010_


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (gtibunny8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtibunny8v* »_A lot of your trouble running the #42 software is it has timing for lower compression. Ive run the #36 software that has timing for stock compression at 12 psi on a 100k mile stock engine. After 30k miles the engine still has perfect compression and almost
no leak down.

The timing tables were done for a 10:1 compression... one of the questions Chris at C2 asks you before flashing. 
Thanks again guys.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (gtibunny8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtibunny8v* »_A lot of your trouble running the #42 software is it has timing for lower compression. Ive run the #36 software that has timing for stock compression at 12 psi on a 100k mile stock engine. After 30k miles the engine still has perfect compression and almost
no leak down.

not what i was told by C2. I was told that the timing is the same on them all. that they expect you to compensate by running more boost.


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: (dubbinmk2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubbinmk2* »_yeh i have no idea how people blow vr6 engine, change the oil 3-5k dont let the oil run low and dont rev to 7500 rpm lol it's not a honda 6.8k and shift lol 

i change mine every................well more often with a turbo i guess
third gear redline into second is 10,500 rpm http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
& i run 10 w 30 @ the bottom of the hatch marks
that doesn't breakem
didn't this car make 5 on 10 ?










http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (EL DRIFTO)*

on e85 iirc...but yes on stock compression i think


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## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (L.I. Dan)*

He did. E-85 works some magic. You also have to consider its a very well built car with one of the best standalone systems in the US.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
not what i was told by C2. I was told that the timing is the same on them all. that they expect you to compensate by running more boost.

Ehhh, I hope your sarcastic. While I was purchasing my head spacer Chris advised me to send me ECU back for a reflash to take advantage of the lower compression.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
Ehhh, I hope your sarcastic. While I was purchasing my head spacer Chris advised me to send me ECU back for a reflash to take advantage of the lower compression. 

yeah i cant see the timing being the same for that much of a compression drop. i mean people run completely differrent timing maps for race fuel so i cant see why a chip tuner would offer the same timing tables for 1.5:1 lower compression


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
Ehhh, I hope your sarcastic. While I was purchasing my head spacer Chris advised me to send me ECU back for a reflash to take advantage of the lower compression. 

When I got my flash done, Chris specifically asked me if I was running an 8.5 or a 9. The tune may even be different between this small change in compression.
Mike


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
Ehhh, I hope your sarcastic. While I was purchasing my head spacer Chris advised me to send me ECU back for a reflash to take advantage of the lower compression. 

nope. Jeff (the guy that writes the software) told me that the timing was the same. 
its' easy enough to figure out. all we'd have to do is datalog the timing.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
nope. Jeff (the guy that writes the software) told me that the timing was the same. 
its' easy enough to figure out. all we'd have to do is datalog the timing.

True, any one got Vagcom and log both runs? 
Im feeling much better now about this season's setup. I really hope this engine can last all year. Just 1 year is all I ask of it.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

Timing on my C2 12v MK4 is the same regardless of compression/displacement, I sent my ecu in to get updated for some fixes when I initially dropped the compression.. Jeff told me then the timing was the same, and I confirmed it w/vag-com.
If you want aggressive timing for dropped compression/meth injection, use Lemmiwinks & VAG-COM.
For my meth/h20 setup Jeff told me to increase timing until I pulled ~5% across the power band. Which I did on the dyno and netted some nice gains, but then you've developed a meth dependency if you leave it like that








I think the same would apply if you drop the compression and run the same boost, advance timing maps til you start pulling a small %
Cheers,
-R


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dreadlocks* »_Timing on my C2 12v MK4 is the same regardless of compression/displacement, I sent my ecu in to get updated for some fixes when I initially dropped the compression.. Jeff told me then the timing was the same, and I confirmed it w/vag-com.
If you want aggressive timing for dropped compression/meth injection, use Lemmiwinks & VAG-COM.
For my meth/h20 setup Jeff told me to increase timing until I pulled ~5% across the power band. Which I did on the dyno and netted some nice gains, but then you've developed a meth dependency if you leave it like that








I think the same would apply if you drop the compression and run the same boost, advance timing maps til you start pulling a small %
Cheers,
-R


Good to know! I think I'll keep it "off the edge" for a while. I would like to start enjoying the car this year. I think I'm going to start on the comforts and exterior of it, now that I have the power. I'm about content with it.


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (Weiss)*

We've been talking about how much boost we can run; this thread has some good information in it. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3607415
Mike


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (FaelinGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FaelinGL* »_We've been talking about how much boost we can run; this thread has some good information in it. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3607415
Mike

Good stuff. I can't wait to get VAGcom.


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

I can't wait to get my AEM wideband afr.
Couple of day's ago i was running 17psi on 95ron, and i noticed imediately that the car was holding back at WOT. So i decided to keep it on 15psi with 95ron, and only go higher when im running 98ron.
The problem is that all the gasstations over here are switching to Eco-fuels, wich are all 95ron. damn i hate the climate bullsh*t, there is only 1 pump left here that has 98ron...









o yeah a question: am i correct to say that the c2 software is partially self learning? thought i read that somewhere on vortex...
Why i'm asking: car was running like crap at idle when i started running the c2 software, wich is because i'm runnign a BOV, but now it idles perfectly doesn't stall etc. And i made no changes to my setup, weather conditions are also the same etc.


_Modified by pimS at 7:12 AM 2-5-2010_


----------



## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (pimS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pimS* »_
o yeah a question: am i correct to say that the c2 software is partially self learning? thought i read that somewhere on vortex...
Why i'm asking: car was running like crap at idle when i started running the c2 software, wich is because i'm runnign a BOV, but now it idles perfectly doesn't stall etc. And i made no changes to my setup, weather conditions are also the same etc.


It could just be your fuel trims had a chance to adapt. But there may be some adapatation in the flash.
Mike


----------



## VeteRan6 (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (pimS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pimS* »_

o yeah a question: am i correct to say that the c2 software is partially self learning? thought i read that somewhere on vortex...
Why i'm asking: car was running like crap at idle when i started running the c2 software, wich is because i'm runnign a BOV, but now it idles perfectly doesn't stall etc. And i made no changes to my setup, weather conditions are also the same etc.

_Modified by pimS at 7:12 AM 2-5-2010_

same thing for my setup . but now it run's perfect http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Mr. Roloff (May 15, 2007)

*Re: (VeteRan6)*

How much PSI can the 42# injectors handle? Only pushing 7 out of that tune with a T04E with 9.0:1 decompression plate. Want to get a .7 or .8 bar WG spring. In line fuel pump is in the works too.


----------



## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (Mr. Roloff)*

we are running 20psi on a holset hx52 with that same set up and been driving it daily like that. 15-20psi should be no problems with the inline pump


----------



## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (hyperformancevw)*

I'm running 20# with an in-tank walbro on a 60-1. No fueling issues, and I've pushed it as far as 25#, but very very short term. 
Mike


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: (Mr. Roloff)*

Keep the wastegate spring as it is, get an electronic boostcontroler, better boost control and it makes major improvements with spool because your wastegate will stay closed untill you reach your desired boost.

I'm running 17psi with my T04E on 8.5:1


----------



## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

*Re: (pimS)*

Kinetic stage 3 for 2 years. 8,5:1, Garrett T04S ar/63 "should have been 0.82"
From 10 psi to 20 psi.
Broke third gear with 02A Peloquin after 4 months. Then SQS 02A w Peloquin. Was fine.....








Euro car and offcourse Euro ECU. C2 software no issues.
Engine was fine, but you could see it had has a "sporty" life.
Before Kinetic, it was 1 year with a 10 psi Z-Engineering supercharger. Same engine.


_Modified by Norwegian-VR6 at 10:34 PM 2-5-2010_


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

The SRI i'm using now is kinda ****ty. runners ar far to short.
I'm having my doubts if i should replace it with a home made one with +/-stock length runners.
Car would be making a LOT more power in midrange but that would also result in shredding my gearbox..
What would you guys do? 
Engine caracteristics are kinda high-rpm horny with my current sri. = also kinda cool


_Modified by pimS at 1:54 PM 2-5-2010_


----------



## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*

So whats the most power seen so far with the C2 tuining?


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (hyperformancevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hyperformancevw* »_So whats the most power seen so far with the C2 tuining?

Create youre own topic, maybe?


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (FaelinGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FaelinGL* »_I'm running 20# with an in-tank walbro on a 60-1. No fueling issues, and I've pushed it as far as 25#, but very very short term. 
Mike

Mike, do you have a part number on the Walbro pump you used? How difficult to install? Any tips? I would much rather a high volume in tank opposed to an inline. Was year car btw?


----------



## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
Mike, do you have a part number on the Walbro pump you used? How difficult to install? Any tips? I would much rather a high volume in tank opposed to an inline. Was year car btw?

Mine was a Walbro GSS342 (255lph). I have pics of it somewhere at home. I'm running a 2000 MKIV.
Installation was a little tricky, but I actually thought I engineered a pretty good method. After you take the pump assembly out of the tank, you will need to remove the OEM pump from inside the housing. This was a pain since mine was so old, the tubing was really brittle. I cleaned up the pump as best I could, and then used a heat gun to work the tubing off the pump.
Once the tubing is off, I just cut the wires going to the pump to get it out.
You will find that the suction side of the Walbro is a bit too big to fit in the hole on the pump assembly. You can widen this hole by using a dremel. Make sure you can get the suction "bag" on the other side of the housing, fit it over the pump suction and then install the locking ring.
Lastly, the walbro is actually smaller in diameter then the OEM fuel pump. I was very surprised at this. I really didn't want the walbro shaking around in the assembly. I went to Lowes, and bought the thickest heater hose I could find. Neoprene rubber is inert to gasoline, so I cut a length about 4" long, and put a slice in the length vertically. That way, I could unwrap the hose to form a little rectangle. I did this twice, and then put the pieces around the walbro. This basically held the pump in place against the sides of the OEM assembly.
I might have some pics somewhere, but I don't know for sure. I'll see if I can find some.
Mike


----------



## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (FaelinGL)*

On a seperate note. Has anyone noticed their MKIV run a little richer when it gets friggen cold out? My fuel trims are a lot more negative then normal.
Mike


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

Awesome, thanks man. I'll certainly need pics when it comes time for it.


----------



## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
Create youre own topic, maybe?









I thought the topic was to bring all c2 users together


----------



## 976-RADD (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (FaelinGL)*

Bought a '98 VR a few months ago. Has a Kinetics Stage 2, w/8.5:1, 30# FI's, and what I assume to be a C2 30# tune. It's holding 7lbs, nicely - 8lbs. on super cold days. I'm looking to turn the boost up to 14-ish, but I need to get the wideband hooked up. Before I do so, should I upgrade to 42# FI's and software? Also, I rarely shift into 2nd, after redlining 1st, but when I do it cuts out for a second. Is this the computer saying "fuqk you" because it's running lean?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: (976-RADD)*

Your hitting fuel cut, (7200 rpm). You need the 42# tune if you want to run 14 psi. If your check engine lights up when it cuts out then you will also get a max engine rpm exceeded code.


----------



## 976-RADD (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (GinsterMan98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GinsterMan98* »_Your hitting fuel cut, (7200 rpm). You need the 42# tune if you want to run 14 psi. If your check engine lights up when it cuts out then you will also get a max engine rpm exceeded code.

I assume I'll also need an inline fuel pump?


----------



## mathias_rotrex (Oct 19, 2009)

yes you need a in line pump with the 42# tune


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (mathias_rotrex)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mathias_rotrex* »_yes you need a in line pump with the 42# tune

http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif No you dont. You need more fuel delivery once the injectors are dumping more fuel than the delivery system can keep up with. Doesn't matter what the software is written for. Mine doesn't have an inline and my A/F is flat at 11.9:1-12.1:1 making 330HP with 42 pphs.


----------



## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (Weiss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Weiss* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif No you dont. You need more fuel delivery once the injectors are dumping more fuel than the delivery system can keep up with. Doesn't matter what the software is written for. Mine doesn't have an inline and my A/F is flat at 11.9:1-12.1:1 making 330HP with 42 pphs. 

Coming from the guy whos destoryed 3 motors







jk buddy
Above 10 psi i think an inline is good. Its $200 worth of safety. I ran up to 26psi on just a walbro.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (05JettaGLXVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *05JettaGLXVR6* »_
Coming from the guy whos destoryed 3 motors







jk buddy
Above 10 psi i think an inline is good. Its $200 worth of safety. I ran up to 26psi on just a walbro.

Good advice. 300whp is asking a stock fuel pump to support 2x the power it was meant to. Anything north of ~270-280whp and I would run an in-line.


----------



## vr6jettagli (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: (FaelinGL)*

Yes well as soon as the cold weather came in , my car started running alot richer never had the problem during our hot season ? keep getting a code rich limit exceeded?


----------



## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (vr6jettagli)*

R32 with ~8.5:1 (I'm running a full OEM crush gasket on EACH side of the spacer, so it might be a little lower than 8.5). 42lb C2 fueling. Run 17.5PSI daily and make ~430awhp. Car's been turbo'd for 3 years.
GT35R 1.06 T3
3" exhaust w/race cat
Intercooled, no meth.
Here's a front wheel dyno.











_Modified by R32EEEK at 9:31 AM 2-15-2010_


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (R32EEEK)*

Awesome #'s http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
That's C2 42# injectors w/ no Meth? What fuel pressure regulator?
I didn't think (6) 42# inj. could support 460whp. I thought it was more like ~420whp.


----------



## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*

Well, 2 things... 1) I've always considered dynojets to be moneymaker dynos and 2) with additional drivetrain loss for a 4wd dyno I'd be in the 420-430 range. I wouldn't want to run more boost than this on these injectors, that's for sure.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (R32EEEK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R32EEEK* »_Well, 2 things... 1) I've always considered dynojets to be moneymaker dynos and 2) with additional drivetrain loss for a 4wd dyno I'd be in the 420-430 range. I wouldn't want to run more boost than this on these injectors, that's for sure.


Agreed on both points, but you still made 461whp on a FWD dyno. Those injectors have got to be ~100% duty I would think. Ever look at it w/ vag-com?


----------



## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*

I didn't log those runs, no, but I've logged other street tuning at the same boost and have seen the injectors in the ~90% duty cycle range. This is a newer tune than I was using then, and it's definitely making more power. You're right, I should go out and log duty cycle on some pulls. AFR on the dyno looked to be between 11.3-11.9.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (R32EEEK)*

How's traction @ 460whp w/ awd? What tire?
The more power I make the more I realize how useless it is in a FWD car except for at the track on slicks.


----------



## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*

muahahah no traction problems whatsoever. pulls very hard with no drama. right now I'm running Hankook Ventus R-S2's I got on closeout from Tirerack a few months ago.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (R32EEEK)*

Stock R32 drivetrain? I didn't think Haldex liked that much power.


----------



## R32EEEK (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*

It's stock save for the haldex performance part. I pretty much don't ever launch it and I never drag it. That and regular maintenance. It's definitely taken some beatings on various road courses, but that's it.
Anymore questions, we could take it to IM... I didn't mean to threadjack.


----------



## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (vr6jettagli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6jettagli* »_Yes well as soon as the cold weather came in , my car started running alot richer never had the problem during our hot season ? keep getting a code rich limit exceeded?









I'm glad I'm not the only one. My multi trim gets to -18 and sometimes pegs to -25. But it is the first time this season where it got to 20 degrees.
Mike


----------



## Rckymtskier87 (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: (FaelinGL)*

yeah the New C2 stuff is great. I purchased a Kinetic stage 3 in late 2006 and the chip it came with was not great. bucked at part throttle cut out when upshifting in boost ect. One call to Chris @ C2 and they simply gave me a new chip even though it was kinetic's kit....very cool of them. They actually brought it with them to waterfest 12 or whatever it was hah and I popped the new one in and the car ran 100% flawless CEL free ect. I do not even think the car stalled out once even with all the aftermarket crap. One thing I did notice and tell me if others noticed this as well:
It seems as if C2 chips like BB turbos because mine always got fat right before boost and leaned out quickly after the onset of good boost. It seems as if faster spooling turbo are able to get past that fat part of the tune better and really feal much peppier sp? than a c2 car with a journal bearing set-up. And the C2 tune does like race gas. I ran some VP like m12 or v12 or something I think it worked out to be around 105-108oct and my god did that make the tune wake up. The car was so fast at 18-19psi on race that it was all that chassis could take on the street. She would jump a lane over spinning from a 50mph punch. Really terrorized the streets of Baltimore county with that thing. those were the daysssss...... That car was more fun than my current toys in some aspects


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (Rckymtskier87)*

Good to hear. I'm probably ordering my MKIII obd2 42# chip today. I have heard the "newest version" has more timing in it than some of the older versions so maybe that's why the race gas made such a big difference for you.
I don't know this for a fact, but I know a car that picked up a few mph trap w/ no other changes by going to a newer version of the 42# tune. I hope it's true. It makes that ~$11/gallon race gas at the track worth it.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*

Just tried to order, but C2 is listing a RACE file option for MK3 12V VR 42# tune? I don't remember seeing this before.
Anyone know what the difference is?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: (slc92)*

I was wondering that aswell...


----------



## Rckymtskier87 (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: (slc92)*

hmmm did not know they offered that. Prob slightly leaner fueling and more timing would be my guess. I know I talked to John Or Bluegrape on here and he said he went from trapping 112-113 with old C2 42# SW to trapping 120ish with the new C2 chip , no other changes he said. From what I remember he said with the new stuff he had instant boost response when shifting fast where the old stuff would hiccup of stumble after ham fistted shifting. I wonder what kind of oct they require for the new race file they have?
BTW I like you set-up cheap and what works is the way to go. alot of D-bags in the DR forums. those same old trolls have been D-bagging it up in the forum forever man. Anyway Cheers!


----------



## crzygreek (Jul 8, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_Just tried to order, but C2 is listing a RACE file option for MK3 12V VR 42# tune? I don't remember seeing this before.
Anyone know what the difference is?
 the race file is a no cat/sai file w/ all other aspects being the same as regular iirc http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (crzygreek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crzygreek* »_ the race file is a no cat/sai file w/ all other aspects being the same as regular iirc http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

That's usually the difference, but I thought the regular 42# file already deleted SAI and rear O2. Maybe they added it back?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: (slc92)*

The regular 30# chip also has deleted rear o2 and SAI.


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (GinsterMan98)*

Got a reply back from Chris saying:
Street: 100% stock hardware
Race: Intake, high flow cat, etc.
Kind of confusing though b/c it's a Turbo so what's meant by stock hardware?


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: (slc92)*

I was told by c2 that you didn't need a retune for bolt on?


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (GinsterMan98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GinsterMan98* »_I was told by c2 that you didn't need a retune for bolt on?

Yeah I'm completely lost. I asked for clarification and sent Jeff an IM as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: (slc92)*

Good call.


----------



## rono1 (Apr 23, 2002)

*Re: (GinsterMan98)*

So how much power are you water meth users seeing without any tuning? 
does C2 allow the C2 tune to gain what actually water meth can do?
Just trying to figure out my next step, C2 or SEM


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (rono1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rono1* »_So how much power are you water meth users seeing without any tuning? 
does C2 allow the C2 tune to gain what actually water meth can do?
Just trying to figure out my next step, C2 or SEM

Good questions... It would be sweet if they could set it up for meth or even nitrous. Meaning they could alter more timing and a tad less fuel for meth, and slightly less fuel and less timing with the nitrous. Theres a company that just released functions like that built into a reflashed stock EPROM in our Caravan. Reaaaally looking forward to that as we have both.


----------



## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: (Weiss)*

i really wonder how close the timing is on a techtonics high octane NA chip
with e85, rrfpr @ 13psi stock compression ?


----------



## joshisapunk (Oct 1, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_Yeah I'm completely lost. I asked for clarification and sent Jeff an IM as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

bump this to the top because im curious about the RACE file option.....any news?


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

i'm looking for experiences people had with there tranny on 42# pushing around 15-20psi.
I blew my diff last week as posted in my topic, but i'm asking myself how long my new tranny with LSD will hold, so i'd like to hear some experiences from you guys
I'm really curious on info of how many miles were made before ik broke, powerlevel at that time etc. etc.
A couple of guys told me to go O2M, how much wil the o2m hold without breaking? is it much stronger than a o2a?


_Modified by pimS at 5:01 PM 2-18-2010_


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (pimS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pimS* »_i'm looking for experiences people had with there tranny on 42# pushing around 15-20psi.
I blew my diff last week as posted in my topic, but i'm asking myself how long my new tranny with LSD will hold, so i'd like to hear some experiences from you guys
I'm really curious on info of how many miles were made before ik broke, powerlevel at that time etc. etc.
A couple of guys told me to go O2M, how much wil the o2m hold without breaking? is it much stronger than a o2a?

_Modified by pimS at 4:26 PM 2-18-2010_

I'm real curious as well... And isn't there a ton of work involved in the 02M swap? Shifter cables/ends, axles, shifter, etc...
Also would like to know what you were doing at the time it went caput.


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

*Re: (Weiss)*

WOT while taking a corner in firstgear after a trafficlight





















Just couldn't resist it
























_Modified by pimS at 6:17 PM 2-18-2010_


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (pimS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pimS* »_i'm looking for experiences people had with there tranny on 42# pushing around 15-20psi.

_Modified by pimS at 5:01 PM 2-18-2010_

O2A/Peloquin for 2 years and no issues, but that was only 12psi/320whp/tq. 
It should see 15-20psi regularly in the next few months so we'll see. 
There are plenty O2A/lsd trans that have held together at that level. Seems like avoiding wheelhop/uneven road surfaces is the key as well as a turbo that doesn't spool down low and like an on/off switch.
I'm picking up a spare O2A and taking my chances. If I blow two in a row then we'll look at a solution, but I'm not spending big $$ until this trans PROVES it can't handle my setup


----------



## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*

I ran my O2J with OEM diff at 20# for a good long while. I never had any problems, but I'm not the peel out at the light type; I'm the floor it in 3rd type








I put my peloquin in while I had the case cracked for powdercoating; the OEM diff looked fine.
Mike


----------



## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

thats nice to hear guys
I think that it's in my advantage that my sri has verry short runners, so it's not as powerful in midrange as it would be with the stock intake.


----------



## garef001 (Dec 17, 2001)

*Re: (pimS)*

i'm running an 02a with a peloquin, was running 7lbs of boost for a couple years am now running 17-19lbs daily and up to 22lbs occasionally for a couple months now. all good so far


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (garef001)*

So i shouldn't be worried to run the VR at 350-400whp on stock engine. I dont want to build it up yet just enjoy it for a bit. Will probably run E85 only on lugtronic


----------



## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_So i shouldn't be worried to run the VR at 350-400whp on stock engine. I dont want to build it up yet just enjoy it for a bit. Will probably run E85 only on lugtronic

Research VR's some. Its around 600whp on standalone where things go bad.


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (05JettaGLXVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *05JettaGLXVR6* »_
Research VR's some. Its around 600whp on standalone where things go bad. 
Im not looking for that high on stock engine.. i want 400 max on the stock motor. I mean stock from valve cover to oil pan, if that will work i wont build it right now. It will be standalone


----------



## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

400 is no problem on a stock vr but you will want to put a head spacer and arp bolts in it though.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (hyperformancevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hyperformancevw* »_400 is no problem on a stock vr but you will want to put a head spacer and arp bolts in it though.

arp bolts is a waste of money on a VR until you get in the 600 range (or if you expect to have to take the head off a few times)


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*

I think OE bolts may have went up in price. I used to get them for $30 from World Pac (jobber price). I just looked the other day and I think they were $50-$60. That makes the ARP's a little more attractive.
Hmm, MJM has them for $40 shipped. Can't be the same brand. Only way I've ever seen them beat World Pac price is a different brand/different part ie. sending an O2 sensor for an obd1 passat instead of the one that was ordered for a Corrado b/c it "will work" http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by slc92 at 12:53 PM 2-22-2010_


----------



## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (hyperformancevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hyperformancevw* »_400 is no problem on a stock vr but you will want to put a head spacer and arp bolts in it though.
I dont want a head spacer, I'll just run E85. I'll put arp rod bolts and see how much it will hold.


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
arp bolts is a waste of money on a VR until you get in the 600 range (or if you expect to have to take the head off a few times)

I must disagree a bit on this... any setup with high cylinder pressures can greatly benefit from head studs over head bolts. Even stock engines can benefit from studs. Such reasons are much more even clamping load, better torque distribution, less stretch, and so on.


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O2VW1.8T* »_I dont want a head spacer, I'll just run E85. I'll put arp rod bolts and see how much it will hold.

I cant say I blame you. I really didnt want to run a spacer as it completely diminishes the quench area of the piston causing a dirtier burn and less controllable flame front. But, I'm effing cheap and it's been proven to work well. It's simply just "not the best" method of lowering the compression. 
Originally I wanted to leave it at 10:1 and run alcohol injection and just monitor knock... a very workable method... I just got tired risking it and decided to go this route. 


_Modified by Weiss at 10:17 PM 2-22-2010_


----------



## Mr Boosted (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
arp bolts is a waste of money on a VR until you get in the 600 range (or if you expect to have to take the head off a few times)

for 170 dollars why take the chance anyways...


----------



## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (O2VW1.8T)*

yea E85 should get the job done. i wish i had a station near me


----------



## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (hyperformancevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hyperformancevw* »_yea E85 should get the job done. i wish i had a station near me









Why not just shoot it with some alcohol injection? Much easier to find washer fluid.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (Weiss)*

we thought about that but we want to upgrade to the 630 file first. still on the 440 file now but then i know the car will just eat transmissions with that file and the hx52 at over 25psi on race gas.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (hyperformancevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hyperformancevw* »_we thought about that but we want to upgrade to the 630 file first. still on the 440 file now but then i know the car will just eat transmissions with that file and the hx52 at over 25psi on race gas.









So dirty....


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Weiss)*

Hopefully me and a friend will be starting one soon. 
obd1 dizzy 42lb c2 setup in a Rabbit VR6.


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## charlie hayes (Jun 4, 2007)

Did they come out with 42lb dizzy tunes? I thought the biggest you could run was 30lb


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (charlie hayes)*

I had to pay nearly what their obd2 42lb setup costs new. Got it used on vortex. There are some floating around.
I'm not sure the driveability of the obd1 42lb kits were up to c2 standards from what I've read. I've never experienced the obd1 tune in person, but used to use the obd2 42lb setup on my daily driver.
The MAF isn't bolt on as far as changing the housing goes, which makes it more complicated to sell than the obd2 version.


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## VeteRan6 (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

anyone know what compression on 8:5.1 i got 145 to 155psi on 6 cylinder . seems good but how many you get out of this spacer!!?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: C2*

For what it's worth C2 software has proven itself very reliable to this point for my setups.
~20, 000 turbo miles
Mk3 OBD1 36# at 14 psi no problems.
Mk3 OBD2 42# at 18 psi, 9:1 headspacer no problems.
Mk3 OBD2 60# at 20 psi 9:1 headspacer no problems (exception of a bad MAF). Daily driven 80 miles on this setup.
~30,000 turbo miles total
Mk4 36# at 12 psi no problems (exception bad O2 sensor).
Mk4 60# at 25 psi, 8.5:1 headspacer no problems.
Get a wideband and keep your eye on it. Recently an issue with a failing MAF led to extremely lean running and even then there has been no motor damage. Both cars run inline Walbro pumps and ARP hardware - because I really don't have time for rebuilding blown motors. I actually like the fact that the C2 software runs richer than most people prefer as it provides more room for error if you have something else fail.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

350 miles, so far so good. Done a few pulls at 10-11psi. Man it pulls harder than it did last year with less compression. Certainly due in part to no more or a lot less detonation. I can't wait to hook up VAGCom to this and start turning it up.
Thanks for the help guys.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: C2 (V-dubbulyuh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V-dubbulyuh* »_For what it's worth C2 software has proven itself very reliable to this point for my setups.

Mk3 OBD2 42# at 18 psi, 9:1 headspacer no problems.


What fuel and intercooler w/ this setup? I'm running an A/A on the smaller side and run 93 octane on the street.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: C2 (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
What fuel and intercooler w/ this setup? I'm running an A/A on the smaller side and run 93 octane on the street.

Gas - 93 octane
Intercooler - 2.5" in/out, 18x3x9 (A/A)
BTW, running this identical setup now with the 60# software ~ 20 psi.


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## 976-RADD (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (GinsterMan98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GinsterMan98* »_Your hitting fuel cut, (7200 rpm). You need the 42# tune if you want to run 14 psi. *If your check engine lights up when it cuts out then you will also get a max engine rpm exceeded code.*

Driving home late last night. Guess I should have paid more attention to the tach. I assume I exceeded the max RPM in second gear--Check engine flashed, then stayed on. Any other reasons why the light would do this? Other than clearing the code, is there anything else I should be concerned with?


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (976-RADD)*

Flashing MIL is a misfire.


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## Bthornton10 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: (hyperformancevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hyperformancevw* »_we thought about that but we want to upgrade to the 630 file first. still on the 440 file now but then i know the car will just eat transmissions with that file and the hx52 at over 25psi on race gas.









Buy a WOT box, it will save you transmissions. I have one in my mk3 VR6 turbo with C2 630cc file on 20psi with a 02a and a peloquin diff. 

Here's a link if anyone is interested. 
http://www.npcompleteperformance.com/wotbox


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (Bthornton10)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bthornton10* »_
Buy a WOT box, it will save you transmissions. I have one in my mk3 VR6 turbo with C2 630cc file on 20psi with a 02a and a peloquin diff. 

Here's a link if anyone is interested. 
http://www.npcompleteperformance.com/wotbox


In the process of installing one of these now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
In the process of installing one of these now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Let me know how you like it...I am interested.
Mike


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (FaelinGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FaelinGL* »_
Let me know how you like it...I am interested.
Mike

Will do. I know exactly how to wire it now so I should have it working shortly.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
Will do. I know exactly how to wire it now so I should have it working shortly.

x2...
i have always wanted to try one of these...... and want to see how effective it is....


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (Bthornton10)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bthornton10* »_
Buy a WOT box, it will save you transmissions. I have one in my mk3 VR6 turbo with C2 630cc file on 20psi with a 02a and a peloquin diff. 

Here's a link if anyone is interested. 
http://www.npcompleteperformance.com/wotbox


How's that work out between gears? I'm having trouble with my 2-3 shift. I need to wait for a bit once I put the clutch in from 2nd gear, let the cluster shaft slow down, then I can put it in 3rd. Otherwise I can feel it grind a bit.


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## Bthornton10 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: (Weiss)*

I had trouble with 2nd and 3rd grinding. But once I got the WOT box the shifts got a lot smoother and 2nd-3rd doesn't grind anymore.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: (Bthornton10)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bthornton10* »_I had trouble with 2nd and 3rd grinding. But once I got the WOT box the shifts got a lot smoother and 2nd-3rd doesn't grind anymore. 

Certainly something I will consider buying then. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 976-RADD (May 29, 2003)

Switched to 42# C2 software/injectors/Walbro the other day. Couldn't be more stoked. Greatest thing since sliced challah. That's it...Kinda speechless.


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

I was amazed at the stability. I throw the occasional O2 sensor code when the car trims out, but I clear it and go on my merry way. 

Mike


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## wabbitGTl (Jan 2, 2007)

watching this one. just picked up the 36# software and was planning on a full build. i guess that can wait until winter.


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