# Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ??



## netarc (Jul 18, 2003)

I chanced across this archived thread:
*Differences from audi 3a short block and vw 2.0 aba shortblock*
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1015744
and am a bit confused about what folks are saying about torque vs. HP output of these engines. At the beginning of the thread folks are saying that *the ABA offers better torque, whereas the 3A is good for more HP @ higher RPM.*
But then near the end, a couple of other folks say the exact opposite, namely: 
"I've had both 3A and ABA in my Cabby. The 3A is more of a torquer, whereas the ABA likes to rev a bit better."
"well built ABA will rev higher due to its rod ratio , it will give you higher HP but less torque, matched with the right gear ratios it would be a killer. 3A will develop more torque due to its piston speed ,with the right head and cam combo ,it makes a nice street engine."
WTF








I suspect that the folks at the top of the thread are probably right, but would like to confirm. Can someone jump in & clarify, and offer a definitive answer?


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## a1only (Nov 22, 2002)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (netarc)*

I've had both under the same ported "jh" solid head with no discernible difference. Aba is easier to find.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (netarc)*

I think I'm the one that stated the "contrary" opinion...
The 3A is going to be more of a torquer...pistons are also heavier on the 3A IIRC which is not as conducive to revability...
The ABA has the "better" rod ratio and would be my recommendation...they are also newer and more available.
Back when I did my 3A swap in '92/'93 the 3A was more common hence the easy choice...
regards,
Peter Tong


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## NOSPEED411 (Jul 7, 2002)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (Peter Tong)*

Look, bottom line is 3A is the way to go . The inherant design of the block casting and its general similarities to the stock 1.8 makes it a more reliable motor. ABA is a very weak engine, and does not seem to be able to take the severe beating that the 3A does. I have a 3A block with a mildly ported head and G grind cam running on digi2. This car will hands down take any ABA out there, It pulls so damn hard its amazing. 
3A = torque
ABA= spun rods and weak rings.


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## netarc (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (NOSPEED411)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOSPEED411* »_Look, bottom line is 3A is the way to go . The inherant design of the block casting and its general similarities to the stock 1.8 makes it a more reliable motor. ABA is a very weak engine, and does not seem to be able to take the severe beating that the 3A does. I have a 3A block with a mildly ported head and G grind cam running on digi2. This car will hands down take any ABA out there, It pulls so damn hard its amazing. 
3A = torque
ABA= spun rods and weak rings.

Good to keep in mind - I'll be talking to my mechanic (Tim @ Tomas, for those SF Bay'rs who know him) on Wednesday, when he's going to check out the car. 
Their initial assessment was that the best option would be to swap for an A3 bottom end (the ABA, I presume), but I'll bring up the 3A option as well.
BTW, one complication - I realized just a few days ago that my cabby is actually Digifant I, rather than 2!?! Turns out the California Cabriolets for 91-92 were outfitted with DigiI, whereas other states' had Digi2 ... doh!


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## der_panzer (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (NOSPEED411)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOSPEED411* »_ABA is a very weak engine, and does not seem to be able to take the severe beating that the 3A does. I have a 3A block with a mildly ported head and G grind cam running on digi2. This car will hands down take any ABA out there, It pulls so damn hard its amazing. 
3A = torque
ABA= spun rods and weak rings.

What is weak about it? It uses the same rod bearings as the 3A and a larger oil pump. With a solid lifter head, I get 70+ PSI hot above 2000 RPM with Mobil 1 5w30. I don't think I'll be spinning rods anytime soon.
I've got more than a year of daily driver, lead footed, high mileage torture on mine now, with regular blasts to 7400 RPM. No signs of wear.
My vote is for the ABA due to its longer rods and FAR superior rod ratio (1.71 vs. 1.55) Longer rods give your pistons more time at TDC, increasing the time for the combustion charge to burn. They make more power with less timing advance. Less timing advance = less chance for detonation. Longer rods also lower peak piston velocities, reducing stress on the rods, bearings and pistons.
Not to mention the ABA's oil squirters underneath the pistons that provide additional cooling to the piston. 
You won't take my ABA


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## a2-8v-pgh (Aug 16, 2003)

aba = bullet proof from what i hear...


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## eldo (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: (a2-8v-pgh)*

obd 1 ABA engines are pretty darn tough! a friend has been running 12psi through one with only a head-gasket sandwich to lower compression and has been driving like an idiot for almost 2 years now.
i'm running an obd2 ABA shortblock with a worked digi head for a short time now, and i'm really happy. much better as a daily than the 16v cars that i've owned, and bomb-proof reliable.
just my 2 cents.


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## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (NOSPEED411)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOSPEED411* »_Look, bottom line is 3A is the way to go . The inherant design of the block casting and its general similarities to the stock 1.8 makes it a more reliable motor. ABA is a very weak engine, and does not seem to be able to take the severe beating that the 3A does. I have a 3A block with a mildly ported head and G grind cam running on digi2. This car will hands down take any ABA out there, It pulls so damn hard its amazing. 
3A = torque
ABA= spun rods and weak rings.

10 years, 90,000 miles, 132 NA wHP.
Yeah, you're right! My ABA is really a POS!
Maybe you ought to take the time to look at an ABA and 3A side by side.
Guaranteed your 3A won't take my ABA.


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## EDV (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (J. Daniel)*

You won't notice the differences between 3A and ABA in power. It's mostly in the head. The 3A will not have any clearance issues with the rain tray and throttle linkage. All your old stuff will bolt on. ABA's are more available.


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## Blitzen155 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (NOSPEED411)*

im going the 3A route myself... they may be harder to find but dont require a longer downpipe. the only 2 necessary adaptations needed that i know of is a block off plate (and freeze plug) for the breather hole and a spacer ring for the ignition distributor IF you're going to still use your old vacuum advance distributor.
FWIW, I've been hearing for years that the VW 2.0's have oil consumption issues, which would lead me to believe that maybe they do have weaker than normal rings.


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## der_panzer (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Audi 3a & VW ABA - torque vs. HP ?? (Blitzen155)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blitzen155* »_
FWIW, I've been hearing for years that the VW 2.0's have oil consumption issues, which would lead me to believe that maybe they do have weaker than normal rings.

Mine eats about a quart of Mobil 1 5w30 per 3000 miles. I wouldn't really call that an issue, but YMMV


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