# Exhaust Fumes getting into cabin



## 04phaeton (Feb 19, 2009)

A few weeks ago this problem started.

After I start the car, warm up a bit then drive, there are exhaust fumes that get into the cabin as you can smell them.

It's happening more often now. I have spoken to my Phaeton tech who said that the car has a sensor that goes off and shuts down external air if it notices exhaust uses getting in.

I have been hearing a little bit of road noise on the driver side so I'm thinking some fumes are coming in from the door seal (although it looks fine).

Sometimes it's bad enough that you have to open the windows or you will feel sick. It passes within 5 minutes or so and the car is fine after that. It only happens right after ignition for a few minutes.

I'm seeing my mechanic next week to look at this.

Any thoughts as to what this may be?


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Is your phaeton a diesel ? (I'm thinking of the heater).


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## 04phaeton (Feb 19, 2009)

It's a 2004 v8 regular gas - not a diesel


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Maybe there's some kind of exhaust manifold issue when cold, and you have lost some rubber bungs in the floorpan, so the opening is letting in fumes?

Chris


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## 04phaeton (Feb 19, 2009)

Well looks like its 2 issues

- v113 flap motor is sticking (and clicking)

- back of camshaft seal is leaking which may be contributing to the smell

What am I in for here? I've already had the dash out twice before to replace other motors.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

04phaeton said:


> Well looks like its 2 issues
> 
> - v113 flap motor is sticking (and clicking)
> 
> ...


Flap motor V113 allows the HVAC fan to draw air from inside the cabin (recirculation). It is separate from flap motor V71 which allows the HVAC fan to draw air from outside. Which is a bummer, because V71 can be serviced from the engine compartment and V113 will probably require pulling the dash. If you have access to VCDS, I could take you through seeing if there's an actual problem. It's not unusual to log random flap motor errors, if the flap is working it can be safely ignored.

Your Phaeton tech is right when he tells you there's an air quality sensor. However, the HVAC system will not keep you in recirculate mode forever. There's a maximum time you'll stay in recirc mode, and a calibration to ambient air conditions so it only kicks in for pollution surges. It's also supposed to work in conjunction with your charcoal air filters, which only last so long even if they are visually clear.

It's normal to have some strong-smelling exhaust for a few minutes after a cold start. But, if you simply start the car cold and then immediately start driving forward at any speed at all, you really ought to be leaving anything exhaust-ish behind you. If it's anywhere near the HVAC intake when in forward motion, something is leaking or dripping. Normally, I'd tell you to lock your HVAC in recirculate mode to see if the fumes were coming in the fresh air intake or from somewhere else in the cabin, but that is made more complicated by your possible recirc flap issue.

Jason

PS: Here is some more info about the sensor and how it's used:



> *Air Quality Sensor, Function*
> Sensor for air quality detects pollutants in the ambient air (mostly gasoline and/or diesel fumes). The Climatronic Control Module J255 evaluates the signal from Sensor for air quality G238 . The A/C system is activated depending on the strength and type of heavily polluted air.
> 
> 
> ...


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

As a follow-up: do you have snow or ice on the car, leaves or other debris, anything in the plenum air vents? It's the plastic vent strip at the base of the windshield and top of the hood, just under the windshield wipers. If this is blocked, the system could be forced to pull some air from the engine compartment instead. This could also happen if the seal/gasket along the engine side of the plenum cover is badly installed or missing.

However this comes out, you're probably due for a new set of charcoal filters, so be sure to put those on order. The ones you have are abused and used up due to this problem. Once it's fixed, put the new ones in. If you put them in now, you'll just use up the new ones.

Jason


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## 04phaeton (Feb 19, 2009)

jyoung8607 said:


> As a follow-up: do you have snow or ice on the car, leaves or other debris, anything in the plenum air vents? It's the plastic vent strip at the base of the windshield and top of the hood, just under the windshield wipers. If this is blocked, the system could be forced to pull some air from the engine compartment instead. This could also happen if the seal/gasket along the engine side of the plenum cover is badly installed or missing.
> 
> However this comes out, you're probably due for a new set of charcoal filters, so be sure to put those on order. The ones you have are abused and used up due to this problem. Once it's fixed, put the new ones in. If you put them in now, you'll just use up the new ones.
> 
> Jason


Jason,

No snow or ice on the car - no debris and I just had the plenum drains cleaned a few months ago as I did have a blockage. This problem, however, DID NOT HAPPEN before when the plenum drains were blocked. It just recently started.

I've already changed the filters multiple times (the last time about 4-6 months ago).

I love this car, but man oh man do you need patience (and $$$) - it never goes more than a month or 2 without a new problem.

I also still have the issue with the white lights not coming on while in reverse but hope to get that fixed soon.

For the first time, I'm actually considering the possibility of selling the car, but I still want to keep it as there is nothing safer on the road.


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## 04phaeton (Feb 19, 2009)

Just fixed the problems 2 weeks ago.

There were 2 issues:

1) small passenger side camshaft leak (very small leak) - opened the camshaft and changed all the seals - problem fixed. Less than $100 in parts.

2) Flap motor (V113) in the centre of the vehicle just in front of the windshield was defective letting air from the engine into the cabin. When mixed with the small leak from the camshaft, the oily smell was getting into the car. Motor was $200 and was replaced and works perfectly.

If any of you get similar symptoms in the future, look for these 2 issues above first.


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## Rosendo (Mar 23, 2014)

*Fumes from exhaust can be almost gone..*



04phaeton said:


> A few weeks ago this problem started.
> 
> After I start the car, warm up a bit then drive, there are exhaust fumes that get into the cabin as you can smell them.
> 
> ...


Use the recirculating feature.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Use the recirculating feature.
> Rosendo


Hi,

Please would you update your forum profile to give us a name to use, and your car information? There is a description of how to do his in the sticky thread on the front page of the Phaeton forum:

Please Read Regarding your Forum Profile

Regards,
Chris


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## najel (Apr 10, 2008)

Not sure if it's best to resurrect this old thread or start a new one. I bought a 2006 4.2 Phaeton about half a year ago. It's been almost flawless so far. Recently, I've been noticing a smell coming into the cabin when the car is warmed up. It seems to be coming from the vents. Smells burned, not really like anti-freeze, so I've ruled out a heater core issue I think. When I opened the hood, i could smell it strongly in the area underneath the driver-side cabin fresh air intake - I could actually see some smoke coming up from inside the intake. I think I am probably dealing with this same issue. My car also happens to have the recirc motor flap issue funnily enough, so far it hasn't bothered me, but now I wish the flap worked so I could avoid the smell until I can fix this.
Anyway, I'll keep things updated when I get around to investigating more. Certainly seems highly likely that at 200k+ miles, there could be oil leaking from the valve covers onto the exhaust manifold.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The V71 is one of the easier flap motors to replace. Does sound like a leaky valve cover gasket though.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

najel said:


> Not sure if it's best to resurrect this old thread or start a new one.


In my opinion you did the right thing. It shows you at least checked if there was an applicable thread. 

You did your research instead of expecting others to spoon feed you. Thanks for that. Really. 

My Phaetons sometimes have engine smells in the cockpit also. 

8486 sometimes smells like burning oil, but it's always when behind another vehicle at a stop light. <- I know it's my car but I only notice it when the air is stale in front of me. The oil level is always good also.

I suspect the oil separators for the Secondary Air Injection System because they are pretty oily. I think the ones on the V8 are easier to get to than the ones on the W12. Maybe the next time I change air filters I will clean those. I should buy new filters for the Secondary Air Injection system also but replacing those might be a front bumper off service with the W12. 

7579 used to smell like raw gasoline inside sometimes but that was a leaking fuel line because a previous mechanic had used a Jubilee (screw) clamp on the fuel supply line and it dug in and chewed up the end. I cut off an inch or so and used the correct clamp and the smell went away. 

Sincerely,

Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> My Phaetons sometimes have engine smells in the cockpit also.
> 
> 8486 sometimes smells like burning oil, but it's always when behind another vehicle at a stop light. <- I know it's my car but I only notice it when the air is stale in front of me. The oil level is always good also.


This website is good for looking up parts but it also has parts diagrams showing how they fit in the car:

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/

Here are some places to check for oil fumes:

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/usa/phaeton/phae/2006-258/1/103-103080/

I think the "filter" is #7 below. I think the Bentley manual calls it a filter and mine should be cleaned or replaced. They are probably cleanable like a K & N air filter. 

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/usa/phaeton/phae/2006-258/1/131-131015/


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## najel (Apr 10, 2008)

Thank you for all the info! I just came in from the garage after having done some digging, and I believe this is not actually burning oil. The smell is a little different, a bit more pungent. 

After opening the hood with the engine running, I could actually see a very small amount of white smoke coming from inside the plenum, not from the exhaust manifold area. I took the cover off and I think I may have found the culprit. Not sure what this connector is for, but it looks to me the wires were pinched by the previous owner when they replaced the wiper mechanism or did other work under the plenum cover. The photo is looking under the plenum, a connector just above/behind the wiper linkage. Does anyone know what that is for? I would like to pull the fuse. I was able to disconnect the connector, but the pinched spot might be on the line side, so that may not help anyway.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

najel said:


> Thank you for all the info! I just came in from the garage after having done some digging, and I believe this is not actually burning oil. The smell is a little different, a bit more pungent.
> 
> After opening the hood with the engine running, I could actually see a very small amount of white smoke coming from inside the plenum, not from the exhaust manifold area. I took the cover off and I think I may have found the culprit. Not sure what this connector is for, but it looks to me the wires were pinched by the previous owner when they replaced the wiper mechanism or did other work under the plenum cover. The photo is looking under the plenum, a connector just above/behind the wiper linkage. Does anyone know what that is for? I would like to pull the fuse. I was able to disconnect the connector, but the pinched spot might be on the line side, so that may not help anyway.


I think you have to set your picture to "public". I can't even see it if I copy the URL into my Chrome browser.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

najel said:


> Thank you for all the info! I just came in from the garage after having done some digging, and I believe this is not actually burning oil. The smell is a little different, a bit more pungent.
> 
> After opening the hood with the engine running, I could actually see a very small amount of white smoke coming from inside the plenum, not from the exhaust manifold area. I took the cover off and I think I may have found the culprit. Not sure what this connector is for, but it looks to me the wires were pinched by the previous owner when they replaced the wiper mechanism or did other work under the plenum cover. The photo is looking under the plenum, a connector just above/behind the wiper linkage. Does anyone know what that is for? I would like to pull the fuse. I was able to disconnect the connector, but the pinched spot might be on the line side, so that may not help anyway.


Is the smell Ozone? 

That's the smell best described as burning electrical stuff. Also described as an acrid smell. That smell will make your eyes burn. 

Do you think it's burning electrical stuff?

If it's under the plenum it could be the blower motor resistor. It would have to get really hot to smoke though (unless some substance was spilled on it). 

Are you sure it's not coolant? Coolant could be leaking from the heater core and the steam could be rising but it should smell sickly sweet.


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## najel (Apr 10, 2008)

Thanks for the heads-up - I fixed the image above.

Yes, I think that is a good description of the smell. Quite sure it's not coolant, and it is much more acrid than burning oil even. If you look at the above picture, I think you will agree that is likely the culprit. I think I can see a drip of melted plastic.

Any idea what that connector serves? I managed to unplug it for now and it seems like that de-energized the wires - I do not smell anything anymore. I will take the wiper arms and plenum cover off this weekend to fully fix this, but it would be nice to know what the wires are for.


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## najel (Apr 10, 2008)

Based on the location of this, and where those wires seem to lead, I think it would be likely for the heated windshield washer nozzles. Does that make sense? Maybe I'll just order a good used one instead of trying to repair the wires, they seem cheap enough.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Those same wires were left loose and disconnected on mine after a windshield replacement. I thought I'd found a diagram that indicated they were for a heated windshield, but now you've got me wondering about the washer nozzles.


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