# Parking Heaters (Standheizungen) - Retrofitting, Troubleshooting, etc.



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Retrofitting a Parking Heater (Standheizungen) to a Phaeton*

A parking heater (referred to in German as 'Standheizungen') is available as an option in markets outside of North America. There is a full explanation of what the parking heater is, how it works and so forth at this thread: Standheizungen (Parking Heater) - OEM installation.
All diesel powered Phaetons (and Touaregs, for that matter) have a supplemental coolant heater installed in them, whether or not a parking heater was specified as an option or not. The supplemental coolant heater is necessary to provide coolant to the cabin heater core at a high enough temperature to meet the demands of the HVAC system. Diesel engines are very fuel efficient (thus temperature efficient), and the delay between starting the engine and waiting for the coolant to warm up would be unacceptably long if the vehicle did not have the supplemental coolant heater installed.
Tony has raised the question _"How hard is it to retrofit the parking heater to a Phaeton? When we were talking about it I needed to fit two pipe but what about the remote. It getting cold in the UK and would be an excellent option..."_
It's an interesting question, and one that deserves a thread of its own. I retrofitted a parking heater to a diesel powered Golf that I owned prior to the Phaeton... the Golf did not come with the supplemental heater installed, and the whole job was expensive and cumbersome. But, because the diesel powered Phaetons already have the Webasto supplemental heater installed, adding the 'parking heater' function should not be too difficult. My guess (and, I stress this is just a guess) is that all that would be needed would be a few hoses and perhaps a few wires. The heater could then be programmed to come on at a specific time using the parking heater control panel in the J523. Retrofitting the remote control (via RF) function might be a bit more complex. At the least, it would require replacement of the antenna amplifier on the back window (see this thread for more details about antenna amplifiers: Retrofitting a Television Tuner), and possibly substitution of a different Webasto heater - one that can interpret and act upon the RF signals from the remote control.
We don't have diesel powered Phaetons in North America, which means that I don't have access to one to investigate. But, this might be a subject that one of the UK or European continent based diesel Phaeton owners may want to investigate further. Probably the best place to start would be a search of the Touareg forum here on Vortex to see if the Touareg owners have already developed a solution for their V10 diesels, which were sold in North America (briefly) during 2005.
Michael

*Heater on Demonstration Stand*









*Cutaway Model of the Webasto Heater *









*Top View of the Cutaway Model of the Webasto Heater *


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (Standheizungen) to a Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Hi All
Keep trying to get more information on how to retrofit the parking heater in my car,And have had very little reply or ideas from my retailer.








Does any body have it fitted to their car?
It’s getting cold and would be a pleasant tool to have working. Even if you do not get the remote working just the timer.

Rgds Tony


----------



## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*

Hello,
I am by no means a Phaeton expert. I am sure Michael or someone else will step in later and fill in the blanks. This is a topic I am very interested in and have spent much time researching and testing for a US diesel Touareg.
Your Phaeton should already have the heater installed since it is diesel powered. It is acting as a supplemental heater at this point and not a parking heater.
I have heard that some Phaeton owners have enabled the timer activation of the heater through the main head unit in the vehicle. In Europe you can typically buy kits that give you the timer and or remote or telephone activation. In the US we are not as lucky as VW would like to keep the park heat function from being enabled. You will need to decide how you want to activate the heater before you proceed. As you are in the UK you may want to ask your dealer what kits are available if you have not already.
There is a tremendous amount of info floating around on this topic but I have not seen the specific info you are looking for with all the details of how to enable it. If you are interested you could check this Touareg thread but it won't tell you how to implement it in your Phaeton. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2849893
Good Luck,
Ken


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 8:54 AM 11-28-2006_


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*

V10tdiguy
Do you think by just enabling the timer ,the unit should work as a parking heater .Or do you think it needs some extra pipe work 
Thanks for you help & interest
Tony


----------



## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plastech* »_V10tdiguy
Do you think by just enabling the timer ,the unit should work as a parking heater .Or do you think it needs some extra pipe work 
Thanks for you help & interest
Tony

Tony,
I cannot say with certainty as I have no direct experience with Phaeton's. With that said it would seem to me that it may be as simple as recoding or a software update to your main control unit to get timer functionality. It could also be as difficult as adding wires, relay's and plumbing.
It is also important to understand that the park heat function is designed to heat the cabin and not preheat the engine. If your goal is to do the latter there would likely be some plumbing changes.
It would be helpful if someone who has actually enabled the timer on a diesel Phaeton could provide details of how they accomplished it.
Have you made any inquiries at your local VW dealer? If so what was their response?
Ken


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plastech* »_...do you think it needs some extra pipe work

Hi Tony:
To get the existing Webasto heater in the diesel Phaetons to function as a parking heater, you would need to install a bit of additional plumbing (to deliver heated fluid to the engine, in addition to the heater core), and install a couple of additional valves. You might also need to make a few wiring changes - not so much related to the Webasto heater, but related to the blower motor in the cabin.
A few of the German Phaeton owners converted diesel cars from 'heater augmentation' (the basic installation) to 'parking heater' with the help of the staff at the Transparent Factory. However, the general feeling of the group was that it was too much of a PITA to make the modification (not particularly expensive, but awfully fiddley), and the idea never did catch on with the rest of the owners.
I'm running into the same thing with the television tuner retrofit to my Phaeton - it's not a particularly expensive modification, but it requires a hell of a lot of really fiddley, detail-oriented work, and I kind of suspect that I will wind up being both the first and the last person to ever attempt this retrofit.
Michael


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*

What if you just enable the timmer and ran it just to heat the engne and cabin,casing a thermosiphon efect
Or you could use the Residual Heat feature to pump the fliud round ,this would bring the fan on.
Tony


----------



## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plastech* »_What if you just enable the timmer and ran it just to heat the engne and cabin,casing a thermosiphon efect
Or you could use the Residual Heat feature to pump the fliud round ,this would bring the fan on.
Tony

Tony,
I came across the following info that explains how to recode your Control Head to enable the timer for the aux heater. If this info is correct you would add 4 to the location shown below with the question mark. This can be done with a VagCom or the tool the VW service uses.
x00?xx: Seat Memory/TPMS/Aux. Heating
+1 - Seat Memory
+2 - Tire Pressure Monitoring
+4 - Auxiliary Heating
Ken


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*

Hi Ken:
The information you published above is correct, in the sense that the sum of the values entered into the third digit from the right of the coding value of controller 07 (J523 - Front Information Display Control Head) indicates to the vehicle what systems are present, for the purpose of allowing those systems to be controlled by the J523.
What we don't know, however, is whether other modifications would need to be made to enable parking heater functionality on a diesel powered Phaeton that ships with a Webasto heater installed for the purpose of cabin heat augmentation when the engine is running (rather than heating both the engine and cabin when the car is shut down and parked).
I have not done any extensive investigation into this subject because there are no diesel powered Phaetons in the NAR marketplace. However, I think some of the questions that need to be asked would be as follows:
*1)* Would plumbing changes be needed to allow the coolant to circulate through both the engine and the heater core when the Webasto heater is used as a parking heater? In supplemental cabin heat mode (with the engine running), heated coolant is only supplied to the heater core, not to the engine.
*2)* Would any electrical changes (wiring changes) be needed to enable the cabin heater fans to operate when the ignition is turned off?
I do recall that the German Phaeton owners investigated this issue a few years ago, and they found that for some vehicles (not sure if it was the V10, the V6, or certain model years) it was pretty easy to gain parking heater functionality with control via the timer only (meaning, not bothering to retrofit the RF control system and the radio transmitter switch). I 'kinda-sorta' recall that they needed to have a valve installed by their dealership, but other than installing a valve and a bit of plumbing, the process was not too difficult nor was it extraordinarily expensive.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*

I have attached a Self-Study Guide (SSG) that explains how the parking heater on Phaetons works. It is in German, but the diagrams should be sufficient to allow you to figure out what the differences in coolant flow are during the 'parking heater' mode of operation.
Note that this document specifically describes the Webasto heater installed for the purpose of parking heater function, not the heater when it is installed for the purpose of cabin heat augmentation on diesel engine vehicles.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*

I have also attached below a copy of Phaeton wiring diagram 21, which addresses the electrical system on Phaetons that have a parking heater installed (stand-alone parking heater, not simply cabin heat augmentation for diesels). Again, this is a German language document because this option was never available in the NAR marketplace. However, you might find some useful information in it.
Michael


----------



## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Ken:
The information you published above is correct, in the sense that the sum of the values entered into the third digit from the right of the coding value of controller 07 (J523 - Front Information Display Control Head) indicates to the vehicle what systems are present, for the purpose of allowing those systems to be controlled by the J523.
What we don't know, however, is whether other modifications would need to be made to enable parking heater functionality on a diesel powered Phaeton that ships with a Webasto heater installed for the purpose of cabin heat augmentation when the engine is running (rather than heating both the engine and cabin when the car is shut down and parked).
I have not done any extensive investigation into this subject because there are no diesel powered Phaetons in the NAR marketplace. However, I think some of the questions that need to be asked would be as follows:
*1)* Would plumbing changes be needed to allow the coolant to circulate through both the engine and the heater core when the Webasto heater is used as a parking heater?  In supplemental cabin heat mode (with the engine running), heated coolant is only supplied to the heater core, not to the engine.
*2)* Would any electrical changes (wiring changes) be needed to enable the cabin heater fans to operate when the ignition is turned off?
I do recall that the German Phaeton owners investigated this issue a few years ago, and they found that for some vehicles (not sure if it was the V10, the V6, or certain model years) it was pretty easy to gain parking heater functionality with control via the timer only (meaning, not bothering to retrofit the RF control system and the radio transmitter switch). I 'kinda-sorta' recall that they needed to have a valve installed by their dealership, but other than installing a valve and a bit of plumbing, the process was not too difficult nor was it extraordinarily expensive.
Michael

Hi Michael,
I understand and agree with the info in your post above.
I shared the coding info that I had just discovered as a potential starting point for Tony. I am by no means suggesting that this will be all he needs to do to activate the parking heater.
I think it would be interesting to enable the timer, activate it and see what happens. The heater does have safeguards built in so I don't see any real risks with this approach. It may cause the generation of some fault codes.
Ken


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*

Below are two illustrations from the VW parts catalog. The first one shows the parking heater (supplemental coolant heater) itself, and the different components that comprise the assembly. The second illustration shows the plumbing that attaches to the parking heater on a V6 TDI Phaeton.
I don't have any expertise with these heaters, so, I can't tell you if the heater assembly itself is different between vehicles with and without the parking heater option (production code *9M9*). I kind of suspect, though, that the solenoid valve shown in the second illustration (item 2) might have a key role to play in the operation of the heater when it is in 'parking heater' mode - meaning, when the engine is not running.
You guys will have to do the further investigations yourself from this point.
Michael
*Parking Heater*


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*

Thanks Ken & Micheal
Well up for it,Ill put in the workshop today and run a test,Like you I can't see any harm in just trying it,the safety side of the car will over ride any problems,
Regards Tony


_Modified by plastech at 5:38 AM 12-11-2006_


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*

Still can't see how you bring this screen up by just adding a +4 to controler 07.Does any body have this fitted to there car


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plastech* »_Still can't see how you bring this screen up by just adding a +4 to controller 07.Does any body have this fitted to their car...

Well, I know that Daniel has it, because that's a picture of his car, I think.
Looking back on my various diagnostic scan records, I see that your car (Tony's car) has controller 07 coded as *0400435*, and Daniel's car - which was equipped with a parking heater at the factory - is coded as *0500735*. There are significant differences between the two vehicles - Tony has a 2005 V6 TDI, and Daniel has a 2004 W12 petrol engine car.
A quick look at the coding guide for controller 07 reveals the following:
C00,Phaeton (3D) - Front Information Display Control Head - CCH - (J523) Coding
C01,xxxxxx?
C02,+1 Navigation Installed (J401 module)
C03,+2 Voice Activation Installed (for cell phone only - not for OnStar)
C04,+4 CD Changer Installed (R41 module)
C06,xxxxx?x
C07,+1 TV Tuner Installed
C08,+2 Telephone Installed (cell phone - not OnStar)
C09,+4 Test Mode 1 selected
C11,xxxx?xx
C12,+1 Seat Memory Installed
C13,+2 Tire Pressure Monitoring System installed
C14,+4 Parking Heater (Webasto overnight heater) installed
C16,x?xxxxx
C17,+0 None of the three configurations below
C18,+1 Rear Air Conditioning Control Head installed (typical)
C19,+2 Rear Central Control Head Installed (very rare)
C20,+4 Byte Coding Valid (always added to the total)
The air conditioning controller (number 08), central electrical controller (number 09), CAN gateway (number 19), and central comfort controller (number 46) are coded identically on both cars. There are some minor variations in part number suffix and software levels between identical controllers in the two cars, but I suspect this simply reflects the 18 month time interval between the build date of the two vehicles.
Both vehicles are equipped with the same 'basic part number' Webasto heater - the basic part number is 3D0 815 005. However, Daniel's heater has the letter suffix (what VW sometimes calls a 'colour code') *Q*, and Tony's heater has the letter suffix *AD*.
Going to the parts catalog (photo a few posts above) doesn't reveal very much. The parts catalog for a MY 2004 Phaeton shows two Webasto heaters - one is 3D0 815 007, for a gasoline engine, and the other is 3D0 815 007 A for a diesel engine. Because all gasoline powered Webasto heaters are, by definition, parking heaters (the petrol engines don't require supplemental heat generation when the engine is running), I think it is probably safe to assume that the only difference between the PN for the gasoline one - which has no suffix - and the PN for the diesel one - which has the suffix A - is the type of fuel they are designed to run on. In other words, I think that diesel powered Phaetons both with and without the 'parking heater' option (PR code 9M9) get the same heater.
However - I do suspect that the plumbing is different between diesel cars that have the parking heater option embodied vs. diesel cars that simply use the Webasto heater to generate supplemental heat when the engine is running. I also suspect there may be wiring differences as well.
Michael


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*

would there be a different software version for cars fitted with the heater


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*

Do you mean different software in the Webasto heater itself? In the case of the Phaeton, I don't think so, for reasons explained in my post immediately above. In the case of the Touaregs, it appears that NAR diesel powered Touaregs are fitted with a different type of Webasto heater that is designed for supplemental heat (augmentation of the cabin heater when the engine is running) only, not for parking heat (stationery heating).
Michael


----------



## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Do you mean different software in the Webasto heater itself? In the case of the Phaeton, I don't think so, for reasons explained in my post immediately above. In the case of the Touaregs, it appears that NAR diesel powered Touaregs are fitted with a different type of Webasto heater that is designed for supplemental heat (augmentation of the cabin heater when the engine is running) only, not for parking heat (stationery heating).
Michael

Hi Michael,
He is referring to the Control Head software. All we were trying to do is get the timer screen to be visible on his Phaeton. We were not able to do that by re-coding that address. We did try all variations of coding the most relevant being 4, 5 and 7 in the third digit from the right.
The only reasons for this that we could come up with is that his display does not contain s/w that allows for the timer screen to be displayed or we are not looking in the correct location for the screen. As Tony looked through all of his menus paying particular attention to the Air Conditioning menus he did not see a timer screen.
Do you think based on your experience or information that there are different versions of s/w for the Control Head (07) some with the timer functionality and some without?
Thanks,
Ken


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *v10tdiguy* »_Do you think based on your experience or information that there are different versions of s/w for the Control Head (07) some with the timer functionality and some without?

Hi Ken:
I doubt it very much. My guess (educated guess, but still a guess) is that within the ROW market, the control heads are all the same - minor evolutions and improvements across the board excepted. There might be some hardware variations for markets such as mainland China that may not yet have certain features such as TP, but within the EC, I do suspect all the J523s are the same.
Let me recode my car - which, by exception, has a European specification J523 in it - and see what my results are. This may take a day or two.
Michael


----------



## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Hi Ken:
I doubt it very much. My guess (educated guess, but still a guess) is that within the ROW market, the control heads are all the same - minor evolutions and improvements across the board excepted. There might be some hardware variations for markets such as mainland China that may not yet have certain features such as TP, but within the EC, I do suspect all the J523s are the same.
Let me recode my car - which, by exception, has a European specification J523 in it - and see what my results are. This may take a day or two.
Michael

Hi Michael,
Thanks for the help it will be interesting to see if you can make the timer screen show up in yours. I was very surprised that we did not have success with Tony's.
Thanks,
Ken


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*

I tried changing the coding on my Phaeton today - it has a ROW spec J523 - made no difference when I changed the code to indicate a parking heater was installed. So, there must be some other coding change needed somewhere else.
Michael


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Do you suppose there is some coding in the Comfort Control Module that might require adaptation? Or the Climatronic controller you'd eluded to in another email to me?
Chris


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (chrisj428)*

I don't think the answer lies in controller 46 - or, if it is there, it lies beneath the surface at the byte level, where we can't get at it.
Michael


----------



## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *plastech* »_Ken.
Do you have any more codes I can try
Tony

Hi Tony,
Not at the moment. I will do some more analysis of other Phaeton coding and get back to you. I think we do need to rule out J523 software differences even if it not likely but we should look at coding first.
It may be possible that there is another piece of hardware that has the timer in it that the display talks to. Just a thought.
Were does the clock circuitry live in the Phaeton? Is it in the dash display? The timer may be in the same place.
Ken


_Modified by v10tdiguy at 11:53 AM 12-22-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *v10tdiguy* »_Were does the clock circuitry live in the Phaeton? 

Hi Ken:
I am pretty sure that the Phaeton clock is part of the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head - the big 7 inch screen between the two front seats. That is controller 07. The analog clock above it is simply a slave controller to the J523 - it has no timekeeping circuitry in it, just a stepper motor to move the hands around.
Michael


----------



## v10tdiguy (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Hi Ken:
I am pretty sure that the Phaeton clock is part of the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head - the big 7 inch screen between the two front seats. That is controller 07. The analog clock above it is simply a slave controller to the J523 - it has no timekeeping circuitry in it, just a stepper motor to move the hands around.
Michael


Hi Michael,
Thanks for the info!
Ken


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (v10tdiguy)*

Hi Ken
Well its the end of the holiday,any news on the controllers,


----------



## picaschaf (Dec 16, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (Standheizungen) to a Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Hello together,
sorry to get this old thread out, but the parking-heater retrofit gets actual to me now. I'm Alex from Munich/Germany, V10 owner.
As I studied the VW document (called "Selbststudienprogramm") that was mentioned here, I found out that in the V10 a real parking heater is working - if you have configured it or not. On page 16 stands that the only difference bewteen supplemental-heater and parking-heater is the coding of the controller. On page 28 there is also mentioned that on the V10 there is *no* valve that would disconnect the heater from the cooling system, so it is always connected.
So, at least on the V10 there should be absolutely no problem in my opinion. Has anybody tried this? Or is there already an other solutions?
Best regards,
Alex


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (picaschaf)*

I have a 3.0 TDI with factory installed Webasto. It can be activated using a Telestart key fob remote or by programming the startup time with the Phaeton navi. I have been experimenting with it lately so this may shed some light into what Alex was talking about.
The Phaeton navi activates the Webasto via CAN BUS. For this purpose the Thermo Top C heater controller has CAN BUS support. This is a different control unit from the after market Webastos. It can be diagnosed with VAG-COM, for example. 
The telestart remote controller, on the other hand, is standard Webasto part and is completely independent of the Phaeton's CAN bus. It is wired directly to the Pin 1 on the 6-pin connector at the Webasto main unit.
A standard aftermarket webasto can be started easily by feeding +12V into that pin. But the particular Webasto control unit used in the Phaetons does not start with +12V signal. Instead, it speaks a protocol called "W-BUS" on the pin 1. There is an adapter available from Danhag in Germany, see http://www.danhag.de/index.php...he=en
With that adapter you can activate the Phaeton's webasto with a simple +12V signal. I have ordered it as I am goint to replace the telestart with a GSM text message controlled remote. It should work perfectly in my car, as the Webasto already talks with the Phaeton electronic using CAN BUS.
You CAN fire up the any Webasto completely independent of the Phaeton's electronics by fiddling with that pin 1 on the Webasto main unit. This may not be a perfect solution, though. As i mentioned, the webasto control unit communicates with Phaeton's on board electronic using CAN BUS. Once the Webasto gets the activation signal from the pin 1, it will fire up. It will also tell Phaeton that it is active. There will be a heating symbol displayed in the instrument panel. Once the water has warmed up somewhat, Phaeton's AC system will start blowing air and thus heat the passanger compartment. I am NOT sure if the heater blower would get activated if you just activate a "supplemental heater only" Webasto without coding the Phaeton's AC to expect the activation signal. There is discussion about possible workarounds on the Danhag site (see link above). But it is not very elegant to wire extra relays to circumvent Phaeton's electronics...
And, of course, you will not be able to program the webasto start time with the Navi unless it has been coded for parking heater. Depending on your intended use that may not be a problem - personally I have very seldom use for the timer function, I prefer firing up the Webasto remotely when I know I'll be leaving soon.
In the 3.0TDI the Webasto heater does not come as a standard. I do not know about the 5.0TDI. Typically VW installs the supplemental heater into diesels which have very low heat output (read: low consumption). It is very commonly found in the 4-cylinder engines from the factory. Not at all typical on V6 diesels and I would be surprised if a more thristy V10 would have one as standard. A heater configured as "supplemental heater" may lack, in addition to the startup timer, the coolant circulation pump. Converting a "supplemental heater" into a "parking heater" can sometimes be done by just coding the vehicle electronics to enable the timer of the multi-function display. But more commonly you would need to add a component or two: at least the coolant circulation pump which is mounted to the side of the Webasto head unit and is also controlled by it. Sometimes a reprogramming of the Thermo Top controller is also needed.
The Webasto Thermo Top Z/C used in Phaeton is tricky in the sense that it is delivered both with and without the coolant pump. And the control units come in so many software versions... it is not easy to decode the presence of the pump or proper software from the type plate (which you should find somewhere in the vehicle, if the Webasto has been installed at the factory). I bet VW dealer would have information on the possible "parking heater conversion kit" for V10 Phaeton (applies if you already have the supplemental heater). 
But the main reason the "hacks" are so common is that the conversion kit (which may just be a software update, perhaps together with the simple water pump) costs a lot. 500+ euros is not unheard of!
I'll end my post with a question: My Webasto works exactly as the VW engineers intended it to. But that is, in my mind, designed more for the passanger comfort in mind than what is considered appropriate today with all the environment consiousness and all. Once the Webasto is activated, there are electric valves actuating. They create a "short coolant circuit" where the water heated by Webasto is circulated only through the heater core in the cabin. This means that it will blow warm air into the cabin right from the start, but will not warm up the engine at all - no matter how long it runs. This way, you will always crank up an ice cold engine. Not good for the engine, for fuel consumption or the wellbeing of our world either with all those cold engine emissions. Most Webasto installations are done in a way that the coolant will circulate in the engine as well. It will take longer to heat up the cabin but the engine will be warmed simultaneously. Does anyone know if it is possible to recode the Webasto / Phaeton so that it would not actuate those valves and let the engine warm up too? I could, of course, go and cut the wires for the valves but a simple reprogramming would be much more elegant.
Jouko


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jkuisma* »_...My Webasto works exactly as the VW engineers intended it to. But that is, in my mind, designed more for the passanger comfort in mind...

Hello Jouko:
You are correct in your observation, but you may not be aware of why all the diesel Phaetons (and diesel Touaregs, for that matter) all have a "supplemental" heater installed: It is because the diesel engines are so efficient, the coolant does not warm up quickly after the vehicle has been started. So, VW installs a 'supplemental' heater (basically, the exact same heater as the 'parking heater', except without all the valves and controls to support the parking heater function) for the sole purpose of enabling the occupants to heat the passenger cabin quickly after they have started to use the car.
I suppose you could say that this is 'environmentally friendly', because if the vehicles did not have the supplemental heater installed, the drivers would probably get in the habit of starting the car (and leaving it running) before they actually planned to drive away, for the sole purpose of letting the engine warm up so they could heat the cabin.
The supplemental heater is quite frugal with fuel - it only needs to run for about 15 to 20 minutes (the engine warms up sufficiently to heat the cabin after 15 or 20 minutes), and the supplemental heater only consumes 0.5 litres of fuel per hour. So, for about 1 deci of fuel, you get immediate heat after you start the car.
Arguably, this uses less non-renewable resources than the same device would use in 'parking heater' mode, when it would most likely be turned on one or two hours prior to the intended use of the car.
Michael


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*

First of all - really god thread! A little off topic: I went thru the self study guide and found the document fantastic. Where did you get them and how do I get my hands on more? I'm the kind of guy who just needs to know how things work.
On topic then.
1)
I have (or will have, rather - just a few days left) the V6 TDI engine. The documentation is somewhat unclear as to whether ALL engine types have and need the shut-off valve to separate the flow.
2)
Am I correct in assuming, as has been stated somewhere in this thread, that the parking heater DOES NOT heat the engine block?
3) Re-coding to enable the parking feature, my bet is that even if the water is circulating the entire engine block, the energy will be enough to give the engine a nice warm starting temp. Let's hope that I do not have to fit the valve, and that I can simulate the solenoid load of it with a loose relay tucked away somewhere.
4) If the answer to 2) is yes, then maybe fitting a self circulating electrical heater is a good way to go for the sake of the engine. May a PH500, mounted on a hose somewhere. (http://www.calix.se/consumer/page.asp?id=46)

Anyway, I would really like to have the parking heater anyway. Without remote is OK, just get me the timer possibilities. Half an hour on heat makes the windows clear and the seats bearable!

/p


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (perfrej)*


_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_I went thru the self study guide and found the document fantastic. Where did you get them and how do I get my hands on more?


Michael has posted some here on this site. I was also curious to read more and it took perhaps an hour Googling to first find a list of all self-study documents and then download them from various sites on the internet. The documents are VW internal so I guess they should not be distributed freely. Most docs I found from chinese/russian web sites. If someone has other info about the copyrights/restrictions on distribution it would surely be useful for everyone if they could be found from one site.

_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_ I have (or will have, rather - just a few days left) the V6 TDI engine. The documentation is somewhat unclear as to whether ALL engine types have and need the shut-off valve to separate the flow.


I think the key question here is what you mean by "NEED". If you don't add that shut-off valve, the coolant will circulate in the whole cooling system, including engine block. It would mean that it would take longer for the coolant to warm up and to heat the cabin. But it would mean that the engine would be pre-heated at the same time. I believe the latter is what most folks are used to have Webasto for, here in the North.

_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_Am I correct in assuming, as has been stated somewhere in this thread, that the parking heater DOES NOT heat the engine block?


...I must now say that I should have studied the SSP (self-study program) Michael had posted more carefully before I asked about the same thing in my post above... The self-study material explains the operation of the cut-off valve pretty well. It is present only in cars which are setup for stand-alone pre-heater. And yes, I can confirm that my factory-installed Webasto (in a V6 TDI from 2005) does have that valve and therefore it DOES NOT pre-heat the engine block. Looking at the diagram on the SSP, it should be VERY simple to just cut the power supply to that valve and get the coolant to circulate in the whole system. I will definitely hack it soon! Disabling it by coding is most likely not possible, as it is driven by Webasto control unit which is pretty dumb.

_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_Re-coding to enable the parking feature, my bet is that even if the water is circulating the entire engine block, the energy will be enough to give the engine a nice warm starting temp. Let's hope that I do not have to fit the valve, and that I can simulate the solenoid load of it with a loose relay tucked away somewhere.


Absolutely! The heater installed in the Phaeton is Thermo Top C, with 5 KW of heating power. It will warm up both the engine and the interior within a reasonable running time. We've got a rule of thumb here in the Nordics that one should not run the Webasto longer than what you drive after the start. Otherwise the pre-heater will slowly eat your battery empty. I very rarely ran the Webasto for longer than 20-30 minutes to get both the engine and the cabin into a nice lukewarm temperature. This was my experience with my previous Audi (although the engine was a bit smaller, 2.5 V6 TDI).
Now, looking at the heater wiring diagram, there's a clear explanation on how the cut-off valve is actuated: it is wired to pin 4 on the 6-pin connector at the webasto main unit. That pin has a +12v output which goes active when Webasto is producing heat. It is normally used to switch on the cabin blower/AC main panel. Phaeton does not use that pin for that purpose as the AC is activated "more elegantly" via the CAN bus. 
So it should not be a problem at all to install nothing in place of the cut-off valve. I will find out this in practice when I disable the coolant cut-off valve myself!
EDIT: I did try disabling the valve later today. The valve is very easily accessible in the engine compartment. it is right next to the coolant fluid tank. First, I disconnected the 2-pin connector and fired up the Webasto: it did not start! Read the fault codes from Webasto with VAG COM and surprise surprise: I was WRONG assuming the Webasto would not know the status of the coolant valve: It does! Fault code indicated a short to ground or +12 at the coolant valve! The fault code reset of Webasto was needed before it would fire up again (so don't unplug the connector unless you have access to VAG COM). After reset the Webasto worked fine again.
After some experiments I found out that a simple 3 Watt lightbulb will provide enough load for the Webasto to believe everything is in order. So, as the last phase of this experiment, I installed a swichover-type switch in the engine compartment. It switches the load between the coolant valve and the small light bulb. First tests indicate that it works as it is supposed to: Now I can choose if I want to warm up just the cabin or the engine as well.


_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_4) If the answer to 2) is yes, then maybe fitting a self circulating electrical heater is a good way to go for the sake of the engine. May a PH500, mounted on a hose somewhere. (http://www.calix.se/consumer/page.asp?id=46)


Agree, but I just hate those electric block heaters. Especially these newer "coolant hose install" types are pretty poor. They are very low power (~1 KW is typical) and - although easier to install - much less powerful than the "traditional" inside the engine block installed models. And then it always happens to me that I forget to unplug and drive away with the heater still plugged to the main socket, ggmmmph... :-(

_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_Anyway, I would really like to have the parking heater anyway. Without remote is OK, just get me the timer possibilities. Half an hour on heat makes the windows clear and the seats bearable!


It is clearly said on the SSP material that there is a Webasto present in all diesel powered Phaetons (which is a BIG surprise - Audi, for example, does not put Webastos into their "large-block" V6 TDI's by default!). 
The SSP does not give a definite answer on if you need to add the water pump to the side of the Webasto or not. Michael's earlier findings on part numbers suggest that it might already be there. Is easy to check visually.
The cut-off valve you don't necessarily need (but as it seems, you need to "emulate" the load). 
The Webasto you can activate either with an external Webasto timer clock (With W-bus support, wired to PIN1 on the Webasto main unit) or with the Danhag remote device I posted a link to earlier. Perhaps you could code the Phaeton for the factory installed pre-heater and get the ZAB timer to work as well? Looking to earlier post on this thread, there was info on the needed coding although nobody reported that they had succeeded with it.
Another VAG-COM issue remaining is how to get the AC/heater blower activated by webasto main unit. That really needs to be solved as wiring the blower in the "traditional" way, meaning using Webasto main unit pin 4 to drive a relay which would power the interior fan (directly at the motor) is not the type of solution I would attempt in a Phaeton... And ther is yet another reason not to do so: Phaeton uses water valves ("Pumpenventileinheit") to control the amount of hot water going to the cabin heat exhangers: if you just pump in hot water without "waking up" the water valve electronics, it is likely that the valves are not in the fully open position to allow maximum heat dissipation at the heater core.
Once you solve the AC blower activation/coding you would probably get the ZAB timer to work as well.
As I mentioned, I've got a V6TDI with a factory installed pre-heater and can check out how my car is coded, if that helps.
Jouko



_Modified by jkuisma at 11:35 AM 12-28-2009_


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*

Jouko! God damn! That's extensive! Thank you.
You just saved me the time of testing the load issue. Instead of a bulb, I would take a relay, but that's just details.
I'm going to hit the car immediately with VCDS and see if I can make it beleive it has a parking heater as well. Your coding information might help.
Getting all fired up here about finally getting my hands on the car. We've been running in the -10's here, temperature wise, and I guess your side of the Baltic has had even cooler temperatures. Just warming the cabin would be such a poor solution, and cranking the engine at -15 in the morning raises the hairs on my back. I feel so sorry for the car! Let's keep in touch about this and work out a solution that we can post here.
[EDIT] The circulation pump seems to be there regardless...
All the best,
P


_Modified by perfrej at 7:52 AM 1-2-2010_


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (perfrej)*

Brrrrrrrr, yes indeed it's right now -18C / 0F outside and we're talking about the south coast of Finland! :I Fortunately it seems that the coolant circulation valve "hack" works perfectly and I can now pre-heat the engine, too. Just bought a new accessory battery today and seemed like half of the customers at the parts shop walked out with a new battery...








Curiously enough, I spoke with a friend and it seems that the engineers at VW have changed their minds as they introduced more DPF (diesel particle filter) equipped models: in mid-2000's the factory Webastos were almost always installed like in the Phaeton: with the coolant bypass valve in place. But with the more recent models, they have given up on the valve. The engine pre-heat is again preferred by the manufacturer because the DPF needs the engine to warm up as quickly as possible to work as designed and not get clogged by time.
I did notice a problem with the Danhag W-BUS converted I mentioned earlier in this thread: although it starts the Webasto without a problem, the Webasto main unit does not send activation signal via CAN-BUS. Because of this, the Phaeton on-board electronics are not aware of Webasto beeing active and the AC/cabin fan does not turn on. This means that the cabin does not warm up at all if activated this way... I have already emailed the manufacturer of the converter in Germany. Little googling reveals that the Phaeton webasto is designed to be activated only with a special version of the Webasto Telestart remote (specifically a VW OEM model# T90). I tossed mine away and replaced it with this W-bus converter coupled with a GSM SMS controller.
I hope the converter maker Danhag can come up with a solution. Obviously the activation command signaled by the W-BUS converter is not the same as Telestart T90 uses. I'd hate to go back to the Telestart as the keyfob remote does not work for me.
Yep, let's keep the thread active as it seems that the winter's not over yet! By the way, did you buy your Phaeton from Germany?
Is it one of those "jahreswagens" as it is pretty new and you've obviously got the "ants in the pants" waiting for it to be delivered!







When I was shopping for mine (in November) I first looked what was for sale in Sweden and there were surprisingly few. So I went shopping in Germany.
Jouko


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*

Less than 24 hrs left...
My car was delivered to VAG Sverige in March of 2008. It's a MY2008 and it was used for demo and test drive purposes. 30720 km on the odometer, more or less re-conditioned after each trip. Facts are:
- V6TDI
- Front assist
- Electrical trunk
- Sensitive leather
- Dark dash-top and wheel
- Heated wheel
- Sun roof
- Ski pack bag
- Dark myrtle wood
- Side assist
- Audio 12/12
EDIT: Took out the crappy iPhone pictures as I have posted the real ones in the pictures thread...


_Modified by perfrej at 11:09 PM 1-7-2010_


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*

OK, shall we get on with the programming...
I have looked at the self study manual for the heater systems. I note the following details:
1) The remote receiver unit (R149) is totally self-contained. It has ONE wire to the Webasto, one antenna and supply. Nothing else. That should be an easy retrofit.
2) The coil of the valve can be load emulated by a relay connected - again just ONE wire to the Webasto.

Apart from this, it is all programming! Shall we compare our units?
You have successfully performed the valve emulation test with a light bulb.
I wonder if the wire from the rear shelf to the Webasto (for the remote) is there or has to be added... Another possibility is to place the R149 nearer to the Webasto if the wire is not in the harness.
Mr Pan Michael: What would an R149 with a remote cost?
Oh, one more thing: I, for one, do not want the valve there. I want the whole engine heated. For me, the engine and the environment. And 5kW of energy is enough!


















_Modified by perfrej at 12:06 AM 1-7-2010_


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (perfrej)*


_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_OK, shall we get on with the programming...

Haha! Car delivered just yesterday and you're already playing with VAG COM! Great!

_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_The remote receiver unit (R149) is totally self-contained. It has ONE wire to the Webasto, one antenna and supply. Nothing else. That should be an easy retrofit.

True. It appears to be very simple at first sight. The wire to Webasto is not, however, of the standard +12V signalling type. It communicates 2-way with the Webasto using a protocol called W-Bus. Unfortunately, as I've found out, it uses a VW-specific "dialect" of the protocol. In practice, this means that the only remote you could install here is a VW OEM Telestart T90 device. it does not (as it seems) have to be from a Phaeton, but no other Telestart than T90 with VAG logos does to job. You can source this remote+receiver from German eBay for around 200 euros. 
I seriously doubt that there will be any wiring for the telestart - not to mention antenna splitter - in the rear. Go on, lower the rear shelf and look for a 8-pin connector (blue) and a FAKRA antenna connector (brown) which should be located at the OE telestart mounting place, in front of the tv-tuner connectors or hidden somewhere close. My experience with the (German market destined) Phaeton so far is, that no prewiring for non-installed gear is to be found anywhere. I was quite surprised as I exhanged my wooden steering wheel to a leather one. The new one has heating, but seems like there is a different steering control unit for heated steering wheel and even the two power wires are missing from the steering rack spiral (or whatever it is called). So no easy retrofit there and will need to keep my gloves on with the new wheel, too!








I will send my T90 to the makers of the Danhag w-bus converter today. They will look if it is possible to change the converter to T90 compatible signals. If it is a success, you would have a wider variety of remote control devices than the T90 (with the converter, you could use anything giving out +12V). I, for one, need a GSM SMS modem.
If you find out that your car is not pre-wired, I strongly recommend installing the Telestart somewhere closer to the front. Running a single wire would be a major pain... Buy a glass antenna for the telestart (windscreen would be an obvious place for it) and hide the unit somewhere under the dash?

_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_ 2) The coil of the valve can be load emulated by a relay connected - again just ONE wire to the Webasto.

Yes. My finding was that 2 watts of load was not enough, but 3 watts works like a champ. On the other hand, as your Webasto may have a different softtware version, it may not need that valve connected at all. 

_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_Apart from this, it is all programming! Shall we compare our units?

Ok! Here's what VAG COM gets to know about my unit:
Address 18: Aux. Heat Labels: 3D0-815-005.lbl
Part No: 3D0 815 005 AD
Component: Standheizung 2426 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
No fault code found.
Not much, unfortunately. Nothing about coding. Looking at the respective VAG COM label file, there is a guy with a familiar name Moore







commenting that the unit does not appear to need (support?) any coding. This may be bad news if it is really so that the Webastos are of a different type depending if they are pre-heating capable or not.
In order to get more information about that, I would recommend that you would try "booting up" the thing by wiring something appropriate to the PIN 1. That could be:
- A VW Telestart T90. Do not bother trying other models, you will need the VW W-bus version. Downside here is, that if you don't get it to work, you will have spent money on the telestart. It is easy to sell, though.
- Webasto thermo test program. This is available from the internet. The DOS version works with "aftermarket" simple serial port K-Wire adapters. I bought mine from eBay for 25 euros or so. With this program you can do pretty much diagnosing on the unit, including starting it from a PC. There is another "open source" project on the net, which also "speaks the w-bus". Can't remember the name right now.
- A Danhag converter. This is what I've been talking about. It uses webasto w-bus diagnostic signalling and can turn on almost any factory-installed Webasto, no matter how it has been coded. if it so happens, that your Thermo Top is in fact different from the pre-heater versions, you could get it working with this adapter anyway. Only downside here - and this is what I am struggling with right now - is that if you activate Phaeton's Webasto this way, it will not signal the car that is is active. This should happen via the CAN BUS. Result is that the AC fan is not activated and you will in deed get a warm engine but no heat for the cabin at all. That would be the extreme of "environment-friendlyness"








There sure is a +12V output for cabin fan on the Danhag device but I would think twice before wiring +12V directly to the fan... It works well on a simpler car but at least it would be very unorthodox for this "mixup of N+1 communication and comfort buses car" - the Phaeton. 
- The VERY last resort would be - if everything else fails - to replace the control board on the Webasto. In this case it would not hurt to get the Phaeton OEM version, if it is available separately. Even the standard Webasto card costs like 400 euros! If you go and replace the board with non-vw one, you would loose the complementary heating capability as it is activated via the CAN BUS by the vehicle electronics. Standard Webasto does not support CAN BUS. I don't belive this is really an issue with a 3.0 BIG BLOCK TDI (go on and laugh, Americans!). I have hard time understanding why VW took the trouble of installing an auxiliary (not pre-heater) heater on a car with such a big engine producing such amount of extra heat. Heck, VW still sells 1.9/2.0 4-cylinder diesels without an extra heater and they do not warm up to normal temperature after 50km on a highway!!! Yes, I know, Phaeton is in a different class but this is another thing like the automatic level control on the headlights of a car with automatically levelling suspension: Guys, can you still come up with something extra we could bolt into this Phaeton car? The heavier it is the better.









_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_Oh, one more thing: I, for one, do not want the valve there. I want the whole engine heated. For me, the engine and the environment. And 5kW of energy is enough!

And I can now confirm this in practice. With the original valve in place, the cabin used to be HOT in about 15 minutes. Engine not warmed up at all. Now, with the valve disabled, after 30 min heating time the coolant is at around 40 celsius and the cabin is warm enough for me to sit in and get rid of the hat and gloves straight away. So just perfect. The sound of the engine at start is completely different and it blows warm right from the start. Exactly as it should. Do note, that this experience is from -15C / 5F which, to my taste, is plenty.
Jouko


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*

OK. I will skip the remote for starters. I need to code my nav unit to beleive I have the parking heater. I will look at the beginning of the thread for that.
If I decide I need the remote, I will most likely try to get an original R149 from somewhere, even as a spare part from (uh) VAG.
My heater is labeled 3D0 815 005 AK, which should be a later revision of the same as yours. The software should be the same as well. All I need is the "enabling" of the whole caboodle.
Question: If you unplug your valve completely and don't emulate the load, what happens? Does the timer setting functions in the nav system go away or does just not start up?
/p


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (perfrej)*


_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_Question: If you unplug your valve completely and don't emulate the load, what happens? Does the timer setting functions in the nav system go away or does just not start up?

Nothing happens until you try starting the Webasto (be that manually or with a timer). Webasto does not fire up. Instead, it performs an immediate "venting cycle" where the fan runs at max revs for a minute or so. When you read the error codes with VAG COM Webasto reports a short circuit or short to ground at the circulation valve. It will not start until it sees the valve again. 
Webasto and the car have 2-way communications, meaning that if you fire the webasto from the Navi, there is a small green heat symbol in the tacho. But if the Webasto fails to start, that symbol goes away immediately.
Jouko


_Modified by jkuisma at 11:24 AM 1-7-2010_


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*

I would be interested to see if you can bring this up on a standard diesel car with a vag com.









Tony



_Modified by plastech at 10:00 AM 1-8-2010_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*

Not without a Webasto heater installed. The display screen just polls the Webasto heater to find out when it has been programmed to operate. In other words, like everything else that gets displayed on that screen (climate info, navigation info, television, etc.), the info comes from another controller. The display itself has no more brains than the display panel on a laptop computer.
Michael


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Not without a Webasto heater installed. The display screen just polls the Webasto heater to find out when it has been programmed to operate. In other words, like everything else that gets displayed on that screen (climate info, navigation info, television, etc.), the info comes from another controller. The display itself has no more brains than the display panel on a laptop computer.
Michael

OK! Now, what would the part number that I have come up as in VAG's database? This is what VCDS says: "3D0 815 005 AK Standheizung". Is it VCDS that doesn't know the difference between the two or are they the same?
I too would like to be able to see the timer screen. All I have is residual heat and it is in a different place. I assume the timer is under "Other funtions" in the AC section...
Come Saturday, I will hit my car with VCDS again and see what I can accomplish. I'll do the "Parking heater" bit in the control word described earlier in the thread. Plan:
1 - Re-coding
2 - Load emulation, 3W approx on valve control output from Webasto
3 - TIMER SCREEN (hopefully)
4 - Check if blower gets activated when I get the Webasto to start on timer
If that works I will try to buy the J149 remote unit.
Keep your fingers crossed!
Again, I emphasize the fact that I actually do not want the valve. I want the whole engine heated for cold weather starts. The heat comes in a few seconds anyway and the steering wheel heats up real fast


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Not without a Webasto heater installed. The display screen just polls the Webasto heater to find out when it has been programmed to operate. In other words, like everything else that gets displayed on that screen (climate info, navigation info, television, etc.), the info comes from another controller. The display itself has no more brains than the display panel on a laptop computer.


I have already accepted it as a fact that no common wisdom applies to the Phaeton







But wanted to comment that a normal Webasto Thermo Top does not care or know about the timer. The control unit in it is pretty dummy in a sense that it is just waiting for the activation command to come and will then heat up. Webasto heaters use an external timer which talks to them (in case of aftermarket Webasto heater) using the w-bus protocol. The heater in Phaeton is modified so that it has CAN BUS support. It IS possible that they have built in a timer logic inside the control unit at the same time, but still I doubt that. Most cars with Webastos from the factory have either a separate timer clock or a timer system built into the trip computer or navi.
I know it is a whole different case but I have installed an aftermarket Webasto in Audi A6 (the 4B chassis). I purchased an original wiring loom and enabled the timer which was built into the Audi FIS. Worked like a champ although according to Audi "aftermarket install is not possible". All it needed was a recoding of the instrument panel with VAG COM plus the wiring, of course. 
No matter where the actual timer logic is, I doubt that you could bring up the timer screen in a car without a Webasto installed. This is because there will definitely be some communication between the navi and the Webasto and most certainly the navi does not like it if it doesn't get any feedback from the Webasto via CAN BUS. The aforementioned Audi used the simpler +12V activation for the heater and you could have activated the menu to control/timer any device in the car - an onboard coffee maker, perhaps?








Per, I think you should give it a go and then we'll know more. I recall Michael has already posted coding info for the standheizung and I'd be happy to post coding on any controller in my car - for comparison.
Jouko



_Modified by jkuisma at 11:35 PM 1-7-2010_


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*

No go. I added the parking heater installed thing in controller at 07. Nothing in the info system. Gotta be something more to program. What about the Webasto? Is it really the same unit with and without the parking heater option?
Any ideas? Maybe add the valve load? Maybe add J149 that talks VW bus to the Webasto that talks to the J523?
Hmmm... Got to get to the bottom of this!


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (perfrej)*

1) Seems to me that the Webasto main unit should be coded after all. There is lots of discussion on coding a Webasto installed in other VW models (Touran, especially) with CAN BUS. This is from motor-talk.de:
STG 18 (Standheizung) auswählen 
STG Codierung -> Funktion 07 
?xxxx: unbekannt 
0 - Standard 
x?xxx: Funkfernbedienung 
0 - keine Funkfernbedienung 
1 - Telestart T90 verbaut 
xx?xx: Absperrventil für Kühlmittel (N279) 
0 - kein Absperrventil verbaut 
1 - Absperrventil verbaut 
xxx?x: Umwälzpumpe (V55) 
0 - keine Umwälzpumpe verbaut 
1 - Umwälzpumpe verbaut 
xxxx?: Unterspannungsabschaltung 
1 - Abschaltung über Bordnetzsteuergerät 
2 - Abschaltung über Festwert (Kanal 01) 
...If this works with the Webasto in a Phaeton it might even be possible to ignore the coolant bypass valve errors without the load hack.
Coding of the instrument cluster is possible at least in Golf-platform cars, goes like this:
STG 17 (Kombiinstrument) auswählen 
STG Anpassung -> Funktion 10 
-> Kanal 18 (Standheizung) 
folgend Parameter sind möglich: 
?x: Motorvorwärmung 
0 - ohne Motorvorwärmung 
1 - mit Motorvorwärmung 
x?: Standheizungstyp 
0 - keine Standheizung bzw. Lüftung verbaut 
1 - Standheizung und Standlüftung verbaut 
2 - Standheizung und Standlüftung aus mit Motor aus 
3 - nur Standlüftung verbaut 
4 - nur Standlüftung, aus mit Motor aus 
Dont think that is the same in the Phaeton.
2) No need to have the Telestart J149 in the car. Mine's been out for a few weeks as I replaced it with the GSM modem.
Jouko


_Modified by jkuisma at 6:51 AM 1-8-2010_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (perfrej)*


_Quote, originally posted by *perfrej* »_What about the Webasto? Is it really the same unit with and without the parking heater option?

You might be able to find the answer to this question by having your VW parts department specialist check the parts catalog.
Also, if you can read German, there is extensive discussion of this project (enabling the parking heater on diesel Phaetons) on the MotorTalk.de website.
Michael


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Also, if you can read German, there is extensive discussion of this project (enabling the parking heater on diesel Phaetons) on the MotorTalk.de website.

Michael, would you happen to have a direct link, I haven't been able to find that thread. Thanks!
Jouko


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*

Try this link, it should get you started down the right path: http://www.motor-talk.de/suche.html?sfb0=224&sfc0=true&search=&se=Standheizungen.
Also consider looking in the Touareg forum (both on Vortex and on MotorTalk), because the Touareg and Phaeton have very similar electrical systems.
Michael


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (PanEuropean)*

Good info! Thanks. I'll just zoom over to my friend later today and borrow the USB-CAN-HEX thingy...
Interesting problem, this...
Jouko, can you extract all the coding for your instrument cluster, J523 and Webasto? I'll extract mine and post it later today.
-18 today... Man, I want that heater! I suffer along with my smoothly running V6!
/per


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jkuisma* »_1) Seems to me that the Webasto main unit should be coded after all. There is lots of discussion on coding a Webasto installed in other VW models (Touran, especially) with CAN BUS. This is from motor-talk.de:
STG 18 (Standheizung) auswählen 
STG Codierung -> Funktion 07 
?xxxx: unbekannt 
0 - Standard 
x?xxx: Funkfernbedienung 
0 - keine Funkfernbedienung 
1 - Telestart T90 verbaut 
xx?xx: Absperrventil für Kühlmittel (N279) 
0 - kein Absperrventil verbaut 
1 - Absperrventil verbaut 
xxx?x: Umwälzpumpe (V55) 
0 - keine Umwälzpumpe verbaut 
1 - Umwälzpumpe verbaut 
xxxx?: Unterspannungsabschaltung 
1 - Abschaltung über Bordnetzsteuergerät 
2 - Abschaltung über Festwert (Kanal 01) 
...If this works with the Webasto in a Phaeton it might even be possible to ignore the coolant bypass valve errors without the load hack.
Coding of the instrument cluster is possible at least in Golf-platform cars, goes like this:
STG 17 (Kombiinstrument) auswählen 
STG Anpassung -> Funktion 10 
-> Kanal 18 (Standheizung) 
folgend Parameter sind möglich: 
?x: Motorvorwärmung 
0 - ohne Motorvorwärmung 
1 - mit Motorvorwärmung 
x?: Standheizungstyp 
0 - keine Standheizung bzw. Lüftung verbaut 
1 - Standheizung und Standlüftung verbaut 
2 - Standheizung und Standlüftung aus mit Motor aus 
3 - nur Standlüftung verbaut 
4 - nur Standlüftung, aus mit Motor aus 
Dont think that is the same in the Phaeton.
2) No need to have the Telestart J149 in the car. Mine's been out for a few weeks as I replaced it with the GSM modem.
Jouko

_Modified by jkuisma at 6:51 AM 1-8-2010_

Just an idea: what if the J523 asks the Webasto for something that holds the answer to whether it is a parking heater or just a augmentation heater? It could be that the presence of the valve (in coding) is a basis for descision. I'll try that lane too.
/p


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (perfrej)*

Just been reading up on the Webasto parking heaters web site
You drive a diesel? Now you have two reasons to celebrate! Diesel cars are often equipped with an auxiliary heater as standard, and this unit can be upgraded to a full parking heater at minimal cost. Half of the parking heater is already built in and paid for!
Can your diesel car be equipped?
This section contains a small selection of vehicles that can be upgraded.
http://www.parkingheater.co.uk....html


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (plastech)*

Per, here's the scan from my car:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 007 P
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0223 
Coding: 0400535
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 H
Component: Climatronic D1 2021 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 882 N
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB8 0521 
Coding: 0007111
Shop #: WSC 20914 146 62127
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 18: Aux. Heat Labels: 3D0-815-005.lbl
Part No: 3D0 815 005 AD
Component: Standheizung 2426 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
(no coding information here, should/could check it out manually although there is no label file for this module. I suspect that the coding info I posted earlier must apply to the Phaeton webasto as well)


_Quote, originally posted by *plastech* »_Half of the parking heater is already built in and paid for!

Haha, funny marketing speech! In most diesels there is 90-99% already built in for a parking heater. At most you may need a water pump, timer device and a few pieces of wire. At minimum you need a reprogramming. Let's see how Per succeeds with the latter approach.
I tried seaching motor-talk.de but did not find the definite truth on "how the Germans have done it" or if they have succeeded at all. Per, I think that might be a good place to find ideas what to do next - as Michael suggested.
Jouko


----------



## picaschaf (Dec 16, 2009)

Hi together,
Today my VAG-COM arrived







I have already been playing around with this nice piece of software but when I tried to change the configuration of the parking heater the control unit requests a login code. I only know about these login codes acording to the immobilizer, but not to the parking heater. Do you have any idea about the needed login code?
Best regards,
Alex


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (picaschaf)*

Hi Alex:
Welcome to the forum.
This topic has not been discussed before here on Vortex, primarily because the diesel engine Phaetons were not offered in North America. The majority of the forum members (myself included) are from North America.
I know that this topic of enabling the _Standheizungen _(parking heater) function in diesel engine Phaetons and Touaregs has been extensively discussed on some of the German language forums - notably www.motor-talk.de. It has also been discussed here on Vortex in the Touareg forum. Most of these discussions took place quite some time ago - around 2004 or 2005, so you may have to do some digging in the archives.
Hope this information helps.
Michael


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting a Parking Heater (jkuisma)*

OK, my data is (I turned on TPM by mistake...):
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 007 BE
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 2257 
Coding: 0400705
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
1 Fault Found:
01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 J
Component: Climatronic D1 2031 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 920 885 K HW: 3D0 920 885 K
Component: J285 KOMBI-INST. 4227 
Revision: KPH06V02 
Coding: 0007101
Shop #: WSC 40970 222 88704
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 18: Aux. Heat Labels: 3D0-815-005.lbl
Part No: 3D0 815 005 AK
Component: Standheizung 3426 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
2 Faults Found:
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533) 
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
00664 - Fuel gauge 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
And a manual scan of the first adaption channels of the heater is:
Friday,15,January,2010,17:59:53:33409
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Data version: 20091018

Adaptation Channel 000:
Stored value ---
Note: SAVE 
Ch. 00 Resets 
All Factory 
Defaults 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 001:
Stored value 
ERROR: 
Channel 01 
Not 
Available 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 002:
Stored value 
ERROR: 
Channel 02 
Not 
Available 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 003:
Stored value 0
OFF 
OFF 
ON 
OFF 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 004:
Stored value 0
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 005:
Stored value 0
Wait 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 006:
Stored value 1
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 007:
Stored value 153
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 008:
Stored value 0
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 009:
Stored value 1
Diesel Text 
ZH Text 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 010:
Stored value 2
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 011:
Stored value 79
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 012:
Stored value 81
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 013:
Stored value 86
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 014:
Stored value 89
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 015:
Stored value 0
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 
N/A 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 016:
Stored value 
ERROR: 
Channel 16 
Not 
Available 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 017:
Stored value 
ERROR: 
Channel 17 
Not 
Available 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adaptation Channel 018:
Stored value 
ERROR: 
Channel 18 
Not 
Available


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*VCDS security codes.*

I scanned my fathers phaeton last weekend it is a V10.
it came up with this fault.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 18: Aux. Heat
Controller: 3D0 815 005 AA
Component: Standheizung 2426
Coding: 0000000
Shop #: WSC 01065
3 Faults Found:
02251 - Heater Unit Locked
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the ross tech wiki I got this info
02251 - Heater Unit Locked 
Possible Symptoms 
Heater not working 
Heater Module refuses to clear Fault Codes 
Possible Causes 
Fuel Level low 
Possible Solutions 
When found in Aux Heater module of VW Touareg (7L), unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 003, then clear fault codes. 
When found in Aux Heater module of VW Touran (1T, and similar models), unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 042, then clear fault codes. 
When found in Aux Heater module of VW Transporter (7H), unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 003, then clear fault codes. 
When found in Aux Heater module of Audi A8 (4E), unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 007, then clear fault codes. 
Problem is I cant get into the adaption menu with out a security key, where do you find out these security keys?
Thanks for any help,
Anthony


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: VCDS security codes. (gibber_2k)*

Was the car fitted with a Webasto heater that was specifically intended for use as a Parking Heater (e.g. heats the car when the car is left parked and unoccupied), or, was it fitted with the Webasto heater only for provision of supplementary heat between the time the engine is started and the coolant warms up?
The same heater is used for both purposes. You have to pay extra for the parking heater option. Check the available controls on the Front Information Display and Control Panel, and see if you have a screen there that permits you to program it to come on and go off at different times. Let us know your findings.
Michael


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: VCDS security codes. (PanEuropean)*

Michael
The heater controls are the same as my w12 with no other options, the car also does not have many additional optional extras, so I would asume the heater is just for the basic function as to help warm up the engine/cabin.
A bit more info as to why it is locked, my father filled the car up with petrol, and had to have the tanks drained, Im guessing the drain procedure has caused the heater to lock out. This should have cleared when the car re-fuelled, but I have read on the touraeg forums that it often requires software to force the unlock, the only difference being they do not need the security key to access the adaptation settings.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: VCDS security codes. (gibber_2k)*

If the heater only had the "supplemental heat" function enabled when it left the factory - in other words, if the "parking heater" function was not enabled - then you cannot activate the parking heater function later on.
I don't know very much about the parking heaters - they were not offered in North America - so, I regret that I cannot help you with further troubleshooting. Best suggestion I can offer is to take the vehicle to a VW dealer and have them enable it using a VAS 5051 or 5052 diagnostic scan tool. These scan tools have a 'guided functions' capability that walks the technician through various processes.
Michael


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (picaschaf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *picaschaf* »_Hi together,
Today my VAG-COM arrived







I have already been playing around with this nice piece of software but when I tried to change the configuration of the parking heater the control unit requests a login code. I only know about these login codes acording to the immobilizer, but not to the parking heater. Do you have any idea about the needed login code?
Best regards,
Alex

I have a different fault, but we both need the same code. Did you manage to find it out?
Anthony


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: (gibber_2k)*

Anthony, I'm not 100% sure if the following works for a Webasto in a "lockout fault" state. Lockout is a state a Webasto goes to if it records a severe fault a few times. This is to prevent even more serious incidents: if fuel is being fed but it does not light up there's a risk of unburned fuel ending up in wrong places, for example...
But, generally speaking, the Webasto fault codes in a Phaeton can be reset VERY easily. Just clear them as you would clear any other fault code with VCDS. No need to go to adaptation function.
Sounds to me that - for some reason beyond my understanding - VW wanted to ensure that enabling the parking heater functionality would be as hard as possible to do after car has left the factory. But as is the case with most "security measures" I would be amazed if this particular login code would not leak out from somewhere. The workshop manual does not mention it, though.
Jouko


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (jkuisma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jkuisma* »_Anthony, I'm not 100% sure if the following works for a Webasto in a "lockout fault" state. Lockout is a state a Webasto goes to if it records a severe fault a few times. This is to prevent even more serious incidents: if fuel is being fed but it does not light up there's a risk of unburned fuel ending up in wrong places, for example...
But, generally speaking, the Webasto fault codes in a Phaeton can be reset VERY easily. Just clear them as you would clear any other fault code with VCDS. No need to go to adaptation function.
Sounds to me that - for some reason beyond my understanding - VW wanted to ensure that enabling the parking heater functionality would be as hard as possible to do after car has left the factory. But as is the case with most "security measures" I would be amazed if this particular login code would not leak out from somewhere. The workshop manual does not mention it, though.
Jouko

Pops did fill his deisel up with petrol so if any petrol got into the line that would cause a bad burn. Plus like I said the tanks where drained with the ignition on.
Does the dealer use the same security codes? Or does the VAS 5051 or 5052 let them straight in?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (jkuisma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jkuisma* »_Sounds to me that - for some reason beyond my understanding - VW wanted to ensure that enabling the parking heater functionality would be as hard as possible to do after car has left the factory.

Hi Jouko:
Actually, that was not the reason that Webasto (not VW, but Webasto) locked that heater up so tightly. The heater is a furnace, something that contains a flame, and it is a component that is designed to operate unattended.
There are a whole bunch of conditions that must be met before the heater will operate - fluid must be present, air temperature must be within a certain range, oxygen content in the air must be within a certain range, and so forth. Unless you lock a controller up, you cannot prevent people from making changes to such settings in software - this in the context of a component that is used in many different applications (not just VW vehicles).
So, Webasto coded the component with the safety requirements necessary for operation in a VW that was physically configured for either supplemental heat or parking heat (the plumbing and electrical is different between the two applications), then, they locked it up tight.
The same process is followed by Bosch, who make the engine controllers, ZF, who make the transmission controllers, TRW, who make the airbag controllers, and by whomever makes the ABS controller. Other controllers that are not as safety critical (e.g. the navigation, telephone, sound system, front information display, etc.) are not locked up so tightly.
Michael


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Agree with what you say makes sense, Michael! However, it is interesting that Webasto's policy has not always been that "strict". They have, for example, a program called "Thermo Test" available from their public web site (need to google for it, though). Using it and a cable you can DIY using $5 worth of components, you can run full factory diagnosis and calibration of a "retail model" Webasto. But no, sorry, this does not work with the Phaeton. As has been discussed in this thread, the control unit is very different from the "retail" Thermo Top C.
As the security codes for most of the other components are readily "in the wild" I would assume someone has to know the one for the Webasto, too. Tried poking around motor-talk.de again and seems that there is no wisdom there, either. This particular Webasto control unit version is specific to the Phaeton. VERY interesting that even a Touareg with a same engine uses a different variant and they are not protected with the security code... :-I
Jouko


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: (gibber_2k)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gibber_2k* »_
Pops did fill his deisel up with petrol so if any petrol got into the line that would cause a bad burn. Plus like I said the tanks where drained with the ignition on.

Filling up with gasoline should not lock up Webasto straight away, at least not in the case if the heater has not been in operation since. The lockout typically happens if there's a mechanical failure in the heater. A failed glow plug or a clogged burner are the two perhaps most notorious faults. These are "normal" symptoms especially in cars which are driven on short legs. Once the Webasto fires up (it does automatically when it is cold enough outside and the car is started) it "should" get to burn at least 15 minutes for it to maintain reliable operation. I hate the smell of unburned diesel I get every time I move the car from the yard into the garage and turn off the car before the Webasto even gets fired up...
So is it completely out of the question that the Webasto was already in the locked state before the fill-up incident? In this case it would need a proper service. Replacing the burner is a few hundred pound job, though.
EDIT: Sorry gibber, did not notice that you did not mention the lockout fault. If the only concern is some gasoline in the fuel line of the Webasto, I would not worry too much about it. There is not much difference between a gasoline and a diesel burning Webasto. If a diesel webasto is fed with gasoline, it will not burn as well as it is planned to. But it will most certainly not blow up or anything.
By the way, did you guys know that here up north (well, perhaps even a bit further north from where I live) it occasionally gets so cold in the winter that even the (arctic grade) diesel fuels freeze up, clogging up the filters on the engines, forcing the cars wait for the spring







A common wisdom has been filling up the diesel cars with up to 20% mix of gasoline. It will keep them going longer, although gasoline does not work in the engine quite as intended. Instead of "blowing up" the engine it does not want to burn at all. Gasoline withstands a wholla lot of compression and is ignited only by a spark. And since there are no spark plugs in a diesel... This is no longer a "recommended" trick since the high pressure fuel pumps in modern diesels rely on the lubrication provided by "diesel oil" and gasoline is just plain dry. Pump failures are expensive to fix... Many cab drivers claim that during those weathers they leave their engines running 24x7. I guess that is not the solution for a 9-5 office guy, heh. Oh well, sorry about this "winter story" and back to the original subject:


_Quote, originally posted by *gibber_2k* »_
Does the dealer use the same security codes? Or does the VAS 5051 or 5052 let them straight in?

Unfortunately, this I do not know but would be interested to. Otherwise the coding and adaptation functionality of the VAS seems to be pretty much identical to the interface on the VCDS (except for the guided functions which is "diagnosis for dummies" and not implemented by Ross Tech as they do not sell to that kind of people







)
Jouko


_Modified by jkuisma at 9:07 PM 3-11-2010_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (jkuisma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jkuisma* »_They have... a program called "Thermo Test" available from their public web site... Using it and a cable you can DIY using $5 worth of components, you can run full factory diagnosis and calibration of a "retail model" Webasto. 

Hi Jouko:
Again, you have to look at this in context. When Webasto sells a heater as an aftermarket product that is intended for retrofit into many different vehicles (or perhaps not even for use in a vehicle - it could be used to heat the engine or cabin of a boat, for example), it is understood by both the seller and the purchaser that the purchaser must exercise appropriate due diligence to ensure that the product is configured and installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.
When Volkswagen sells a complete vehicle, Volkswagen alone is responsible for ensuring that the various components are correctly configured for that specific vehicle, which includes taking into consideration whether or not other prerequisite components are installed.
Re-coding a Webasto heater in a Phaeton that was originally built for supplemental heating only to enable the parking heater function, without also making all of the plumbing, mechanical, and electrical changes needed to support parking heater operation, could easily result in an unsafe situation caused by the furnace overheating. In such a case, the owner would be rightfully upset, regardless of who did the recoding - the owner, the owner's teenage kid playing with a VAG-COM, or the local VW technician who inadvertently entered the wrong configuration code when replacing a defective Webasto heater with a new part.
Michael


----------



## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: (jkuisma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jkuisma* »_
... Once the Webasto fires up (it does automatically when it is cold enough outside and the car is started) it "should" get to burn at least 15 minutes for it to maintain reliable operation. I hate the smell of unburned diesel I get every time I move the car from the yard into the garage and turn off the car before the Webasto even gets fired up...


Hi, I found that setting the fan speed to '0' (Zero) will prevent the webasto from firing up at all, a good trick it the car is just moved a very short distance...
Regards,
J


_Modified by Realist42 at 3:24 PM 3-15-2010_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Realist42)*

An excellent and very valuable observation.
Michael


----------



## W12mike (Apr 13, 2005)

*Any progress?*

Is there any new info relating to retrofitting the parking heater function? 

Intresting thread! 

//


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

*Any news ?*

i will receive my phaeton (january 2008 3.0 TDI diesel engin) next wednesday ( bought second hand) 

I am not sure if the webasto installed have a Parking heater fonction.

I supose the only way to know its checking the functions on the nav screen of the car right ? or there is another way ?


----------



## gekon111a (May 13, 2010)

geoffrey_fake said:


> i will receive my phaeton (january 2008 3.0 TDI diesel engin) next wednesday ( bought second hand)
> 
> I am not sure if the webasto installed have a Parking heater fonction.
> 
> I supose the only way to know its checking the functions on the nav screen of the car right ? or there is another way ?


The best would be connecting VAG com to your car and see Webasto is present.
There are several options some of them are as follow:
1) No Webasto in the car, but you can that option on the screen
2) Webasto present in the car, but blocked due to errors

In general with new second hand car it realy make sense to check with VAG COM what sort of errors are in the car.


Raf


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

The webasto is omnipresent in 2008 diesels, because it is used as augmentation heater. PM me if it is not parking enabled and I'll tell you how to enable it.


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi Perfrej 

Thank you for your reply

We couldn't have the car yesterday because we ask the garage to install also winter tyres on it 
So my wife went this morning to take it, I am wainting for the phone call saying its at home.

In anycase the car has the webasto installed, but not the option parking heater 

If you can help me doing a change on it i would be very glad.

Thank you 

Kind regards


----------



## Mistafrizz (Dec 27, 2011)

*Audi A8 3.0TDI*

Hi.
I have recently bought an Audi A8 3.0TDI 2007 - is it possible for me to activate the Aux heater?

We are really lucky in Sweden at the moment, because we have +10 Celcius - but that wont last to long.. :-/ 
So it would be great to have the heater.


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Audi...*

You need to check the Audi forums. The Phaeton Webastos have special software that may not correspond at all to what you find in an Audi.


----------



## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

Following Pers instructions (5 min job with vag-com) I know have a parking heater in my 2008 gp1 3.0 diesel, this got me wondering if this would work with the later cars, so tried it with my brother in laws 2010 gp2 car and viola! he has a parking heater to


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Yes!*

Isn't it wonderful?

I have been told that some of the newer diesels have electric augmentation heaters, which would make a software upgrade non-effective as the Webasto will be missing...

Warm cars to you!

/per


----------



## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

perfrej said:


> Isn't it wonderful?
> 
> I have been told that some of the newer diesels have electric augmentation heaters, which would make a software upgrade non-effective as the Webasto will be missing...
> 
> ...


Hi,

Chiming in on this one, well yes, the GP3 cars without factory fitted parking heater have a electric supplementary heater. If the GP3 has a parking heater, it remains old school, and does not get electric heater - as why should it?!

regards,

Johan


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Diesel cars*

I have read this thread and searched some others but I'm still not quite sure about what functions can be enabled on Diesel cars with the standard Supplemental Heater (for faster engine warm-up) but no Auxiliary Heater option (Interior heating when the engine is stopped).

Is there a programming code that will make the heating timer screen appear, so that the coolant can be pre-heated on cold days? Or must the Webasto control board be changed to convert the Webasto Top-Z to a Top-C before this is possible? 

And if that is possible, then is it also possible to do something about one or more of the water control valves to allow both the interior and engine to pre-heat together?

Sorry for my confusion. Threads often discuss everything fully, but piecing the discussions together isn't always easy.

The above questions relate solely to the Diesel cars with the VW-specific version of the Webasto Top-Z already installed, but not the Top-C auxiliary version and whatever other valves and pipework goes with it (eg remote control).

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> I have read this thread and searched some others but I'm still not quite sure about what functions can be enabled on Diesel cars with the standard Supplemental Heater


It sure is a long discussion the forum members have have had on this topic so far... But the answers are simple now that they're sorted out. 



> Is there a programming code that will make the heating timer screen appear, so that the coolant can be pre-heated on cold days?


Yes, this coding has "leaked" to the public.



> Or must the Webasto control board be changed to convert the Webasto Top-Z to a Top-C before this is possible?


No. You should never change the circuit board on a Phaeton to anything non-phaeton as the board is a special version, being able to communicate with the climate control and other components of the car.



> And if that is possible, then is it also possible to do something about one or more of the water control valves to allow both the interior and engine to pre-heat together?


There is no water control valve preventing the engine from heating on non-preheated cars. So, by default, Webasto will heat both the engine and the interior. Factory pre-heated cars have a valve preventing the engine from being heated with Webasto. But, as you suggest, one may even want to get rid of the water valve on pre-heated cars: this is what I wanted to do with mine. It can be done by disconnecting one simple connector, but you then need to code the Webasto ECU to prevent it going to fault mode.



> The above questions relate solely to the Diesel cars with the VW-specific version of the Webasto Top-Z already installed, but not the Top-C auxiliary version and whatever other valves and pipework goes with it (eg remote control).


Yep. Just wanted to underline that there are no hardware differences on any pre-GP3 diesel Phaetons what comes to the Webasto heater (Both the "Z" and "C" models have the exact same part number in VW parts catalogue for the Phaeton) except for two things: the non-preheat cars lack telestart module, engine coolant bypass valve and programming of a few bits. Enabling a "basic" pre-heater with timer functionality is a 5-minute job. Per has even installed a telestart on his car. Water valve you don't need and - as I mentioned - have it disabled on my car.

I'm sure someone will PM you the rest of the info if you're interested.

Jouko


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Jouko,

Thank you so much for that very clear summary! 

Now I understand the arrangements. I'll have a go and see how I get on.

Having said that, it's the first of January today and it's 12 degC here in the south west of England, unlike last year's snow, so maybe I won't need to pre-heat for a few days yet!

Chris


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

Paximus said:


> Hi Jouko,
> 
> Thank you so much for that very clear summary!
> 
> ...


Hi Chris 

I will do that modification in my 2008 3.0tdi Phaeton also i have a normal webasto in, so with VAG-COM I will program it to have it on screen. 
Here in Luxembourg its only 9.5 degres today.. no snow at all.

happy new year to everyone. 

Kind Regards


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

*Big Problem*

Ok I checked with VCDS the adress 18 -Aux Heat and I could get inside the module and following 
Perfrej i should enter Adaptation module and log with a code xxxx 
already here there was nothing in adaptation to put that.

But Just above i could put that code and was accepting it
after I should go in channel 9 .. but there is no chanel 9 and change 1 to 2 .. I did not find any and I try in one chanel to put 2. 

the problem.. Now I cannot access that adress 18 anymore.. it says Adress 18 cannot ne reached 

I tryed to find that adress or get inside of it to put back "00" as it was before. but no chance.. 
it check the module and after gives the message Adress 18 cannot be reached.

and I could go in before. 

I just stoped and went out of the car closed it and suddently the aux heat works, i can hear it, but nothing else is alive in the car

I hope it will not burn all the car now.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

I dont believe I can get any help to recouver that chanel... but if you guys have any idea would be much apreciated.:facepalm:


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

there is anyway to restore to original or reset an adress with VCDS ? ( adress 18-aux heat)


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

First, you should never "experiment" by coding in something that you're not sure of (as you learned now - I'm sorry to hear about it!). There is a risk of breaking something permanently (there's no UNDO button or "reset to factory settings" in VCDS!)

Second, if you did not get to succesfully enter the security code via the "security access" button, the controller should not have let you change anything in the adaptation. So, chances are, that you did not actually do any permanent coding change.

You could have activated the Webasto in a test or "forced on" mode. That might explain why it started. It should shut down eventually.

My advice would be to cut the power to Webasto. Easiest would be to find the right fuse (it is under the steering wheel if my memory serves me right), pull it out and put it back. Chances are, that the Webasto comes back to business.

If your VCDS is working OK and is able to see all other control units but not the Webasto, you really need to do something "mechanical" to get it back online, meaning pulling the fuse or even more... Nothing you can do with VCDS unless you get to access #18.

Good luck!

Jouko


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

*First, you should never "experiment" by coding in something that you're not sure of*

i know.. 

I wanted go back and the vcds just brought me to the main menu.. i was astonish with that, and then.. no way to access it again.


luckely its the only thing wrong


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

well actually I saw in another forum people really in trouble because of coding with VCDS.

some followed advises, which where probably good for some cars, but apparently not for them.
and they got exactly the same problem as me but in several modules.

To the point that they have more then 20 modules ( adress) where its impossible to access now

they have such message 

Address 0F: Digital Radio Cannot be reached

or for example the error I have 

Address 18: aux heat Cannot be reached


etc 

very delicat that VCDS. 
some destroyed their cars thinking doing well


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

It is very likely there is a recovery method for your controller. 

Each controller is a computer that has been programmed in a very defensive way, so that a safety analysis is always done on the software when it is being written to make sure that certain unsafe things are very unlikely to happen.

For example, the CAN Bus must never be jammed with rubbish signals which would prevent other controllers passing messages. Or certain things must not be allowed to happen inside the controller, for example running the Aux Heater 24x7 if a timer register gets jammed somehow through a software bug or a bad register setting in VCDS.

In some cases the software will decide that something is so seriously wrong or implausible that it must shut itself down until human intervention happens. That could be a power reset cycle (pulling and replacing its fuse) after which it will reboot and (probably) wait for new adaptation commands.

In a very worst case it could have to be re-flashed with a fresh copy of its software. A dealer would just replace the controller.

Anyway, first try pulling the Webasto fuse for 20 mins, wherever that is (I don't think it's 
the 5 amp 'Aux Heater receiver' one in the dash fuse box). If that restores the controller comms, you might still have to refresh the controller list in the gateway controller before VCDS can see it.

Alternatively, disconnect the LH battery for 20 mins so that they both re-start - but I'm not sure if that might just confuse things further, especially if the Webasto is actually fed from the RH battery... This is the limit of my knowledge.


Chris


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Hope the following info is of use to you: the heater gets +12V through a 20-amp fuse SB16. That's fuse number 16 in fuse holder B. That's located in the driver's footwell, see this thread. 

Jouko


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

hi jouko & Chris 

Thanks for the help and its very interesting indeed.

However, if one of you have the problem having such a message 
Address 18: aux heat Cannot be reached

just stop what you are doing with VCDS close the car and leave it for a few hours.
this morning i just drove it to work, and i did not see any disturbances.
this afternoon I went to the car and I removed the fuse of the Aux heat, located under the steering wheel, switch on the engine ( without that fuse ON) leave it running for 40 seconds and stop it, took the key out of the contact ( no keyless) and put back the fuse.
then I put back the key in the contact and i connected my computer to the car with VCDS, i did then a AutoScan again, and surprise, all modules where there including the module 18 - aux heat, I can go inside and see all info etc. of course I learn the lecon to do not change anything i am not sure about. 

in case someone have that problem even in a different module, that's what i did and it works so maybe it works for you to.


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

Ok all works perfectly now 

I have now the aux parking heater with the timer screen and everything 

Thanks for all


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I just enabled the timer-controlled Auxiliary Heating for coolant and interior heater using the info in this thread. 

Many thanks to Per, Jouko and everyone else who sorted this out!

Chris


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Glad to hear that it all worked out OK in the end.

In case it is ever of value to anyone in the future, attached is the wiring diagram for the Supplemental Heater (Webasto heater). It is in the German language.

Michael


----------



## Mistafrizz (Dec 27, 2011)

Perfrej: Jag ser att du bor i Stockholm, funkar VAG-com på Audi också?

Jag har nämligen bytt min A8a mot en Q7a, och på Q7an så vet jag att det bara är en programmeringsfråga för att få parkeringsvärmare.

Plus att att jag hittat sändare/mottagare för fjärrstyrning på skroten - men det får bli prio 2.

Kanske kan byta din hjälp mot en flaska Whiskey?

Perfrej: I see that you live in Sthlm? Maybe you can help me to programme my Q7 for a bottle Whiskey?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Mistafrizz:

Welcome to our forum! We are multilingual here, so please feel free to continue to post in Swedish if you are more comfortable with that language.

Michael


----------



## FootSore (Aug 22, 2006)

I would love to receive a PM which may contain information that would of interest to my 3.0TDi 2006 Phaeton. 

Which is hopefully coming back from the body shop next week. Been there 6-weeks and will have 4 new doors and a lot of new paint when it returns. All covered by Warranty and no quibbles - top looking after VW.

The Passat CC doesn't have a heated wheel :-(

Dave


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

*Danhag GSM for Phaeton*

Good evening all from The Netherlands,

Thx to Per and Jouko for there extensive workshop and Per for the specific information in order to upgrade my 3,0 TDI V6 2007 Phaeton to a standheater. I love it!

Now i want to upgrade with a VW T90 remote unit and remote unit. However... I red Jouko mentioning the Daghag GSM modem previously..... That would be an easy solution, but i am wondering or the " fan" problems has been solved? 

Is it correct just to connect the Canbus pin from the T90 to Pin1 of the 6 pins connector of the heater?

Thx a lot,
wouter


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> I red Jouko mentioning the Daghag GSM modem previously..... That would be an easy solution, but i am wondering or the " fan" problems has been solved?


No, Danhag is not a working solution to get the interior fan / climate control activated. You need to use the VW T90 receiver. You CAN use just the T90 receiver and control it with a GSM modem if that is what you prefer. I have mine wired so, that I can use both the Telestart remote and GSM/SMS to control the heater.



> Is it correct just to connect the Canbus pin from the T90 to Pin1 of the 6 pins connector of the heater?


Earlier posts in this thread have all the details but yes, basically you just need this one wire, which is the W-BUS (not CAN-BUS). Telestart requires (of course) +12V from the battery. Not too much wiring to sort out.

Just make sure you get the right type of T90 receiver and remote: most VW remotes DO NOT work with Phaeton. They use signalling that does activate the regular +12V trigger output of T90 receiver but do not activate the w-bus signaling needed by Phaeton. I have the part numbers somwhere if you're interested - did not see them mentioned in this thread?

Jouko


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Juoko,

I am interested in your reference to GSM/SMS but do not understand. I too want to add the T90 telestart.

I now understand that with that T90 installed there is an additional possibility to start the parking heater using GSM/SMS, but I don't undertstand how that would work. Have I missed that explanation in a posting, or is it in a self help guide somewhere?

PETER M


----------



## gekon111a (May 13, 2010)

PeterMills said:


> Juoko,
> 
> I am interested in your reference to GSM/SMS but do not understand. I too want to add the T90 telestart.
> 
> ...


Dear Peter,

Please have a look at link below:
http://www.danhag.de/index.php?z0=8&z1=1&sprache=de
you can contact them in English, but German webage has more information.

Raf


----------



## gekon111a (May 13, 2010)

gekon111a said:


> Dear Peter,
> 
> Please have a look at link below:
> http://www.danhag.de/index.php?z0=8&z1=1&sprache=de
> ...


Please correct the link:
http://www.danhag.de/index.php?z0=8&z1=2&sprache=de
or
http://www.danhag.de/index.php?z0=5&z1=1&sprache=en


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Raf,

Thanks for that. Very interesting. Have you fitted A GSM remote control or will you? Or has anyone else?

PETER M


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Thanks for that. Very interesting. Have you fitted A GSM remote control or will you? Or has anyone else?


I have a GSM module which has a simple +12V output. There are "normally unused" pins on the T90 Telestart which you can use to wire in any "external" switch you like, be it GSM modem, dash pushbutton... The T90 box will convert the power-on signal from this input into a proper w-bus signal which powers on the Phaeton's Webasto. I have the pinout somewhere if someone's interested. And yes, the T90 is always a required component. 

PS: Do note that the Danhag W-bus converter DOES NOT work with a Phaeton - i know as I bought one and tested. I assume the same goes for the GSM module. This is because the Phaeton's w-bus signalling seems to be different from a majority of vw's.

Jouko


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Juoko,

Yes I would be very interested in a link to or identity of the +12v output GSM module which you have successfully wired into your T90. 

I assume that is what you meant by pinout (was that 'print out'?).

Also noted that the Danhag GSM w-bus GSM module probably does not work with the Phaeton.

PETER M


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*T90*

The T90 used in the Phaeton is the same as is used in the A6 of same model years. I actually have an Audi one in my Phaeton and have to push an Audi dongle to fire up the heat in a VW! I look the other way...

There is but one wire between the two. I spliced poser to the T90 from the main feed to the heater, in the left front wheel-house lining, at about two o'clock if viewed from the left. That is, halfway between the top of the wheel house and the door, if that makes sense. The T90 is in the engine compartment and a 75 cm long coax runs into the wheel house where I put a home made dipole. T90 uses 800-something MHz so it is a small antenna. It works very well but has slightly poorer performance compared to the original antenna location in the rear window glass.

I analyzed the signal from the T90 to the heater and it is a long digital pulse train. The communication is two-way, so the dongle signals successful fire-up of the heater with green slow blinks, or red short ones if it fails. You pair the dongle with the heater by pulling the fuse, putting it back in and the press off on the dongle. I believe you can pair several some way (Joukko?)

/per


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Is this possible gsm solution?
http://www.gsm-auto.com/
wouter


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There's another approach you might consider to this problem, assuming you want to initiate the warming when the car's parked at home. You could utilize a z-wave controller and modify a simple z-wave device to turn on the heater, assuming the heater is controlled by a simple switch. This method would have the added benefit that you could automate the rest of your house, and would give a huge range of flexibility as to when the heater was turned on (by time, by outside temperature, when you turned on the bedroom light, etc). The downside would be that it would only work when the car is in range of the controller (roughly similar to a strong wifi router).


----------



## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

I undertsand that its better with remote control

but i use the timer on the car screen and it works perfectly
in the morning when i take the car its all warm. ( I adjusted to 40 minutes heat ) 

The other time I was in a trafic jam in thehighway cause accident, so i switched off the engine of course, and as its cold I just switched on the Aux heating in the screen... and was all warm and relax , and with the car completely switched off


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Is this possible gsm solution?
> http://www.gsm-auto.com/


Looks good. Z-wave should work too, and... you can use, in principle, any remote control device which provides either a +12V signal or has a closing relay from which you can get the +12V by feeding continuous 12V to the other of the relay's two NO (normally open) pins. 

The device is my car is called "webcontrol 2" and it is sold by the Finnish Webasto distributor. I believe the device itself is made in Estonia. I can't find the product data in English anywhere, this is in Finnish. I've seen similar devices from maaany vendors, cheapest I've come across so far costs about 100 euros plus a GSM subscription of your choice. The good thing in Webcontrol is, that you can command it with SMS from anywhere in the world and you can set the waiting time (in text message) after which the heater will activate. I just sent my car an SMS as my return flight from Oslo seems to be leaving as scheduled. My P should be waiting me nicely warmed up by the time i land in Helsinki 

Jouko


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Thanks Per, Wouter, Invis and Juoko. All very interesting.

PETER M


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

*GSM webasto mudule on a Pheaton 3.0 TDI V6 (early 2007)*

Jouko,

Did i understand i right, you do have a working "GSM" solution available on your Phaeton using webcontrol 2 and a T90?

As the Danhag solution did not worked out for a Phaeton ( i am wondering why the webcontrol does work and not the Danhag), i personally would be helped a lot if an basic handwritten figure is available how to interconnect the heater, T90 and additioanlly a Webcontrol 2 as i am not 100% sure about how what to connect the 3 units. My T90 has been ordered today on Ebay for 159 Euro's (new) incl. Paired remote VW unit ( hope this remote will work as the remote seems rather critical for a Phaeton.

I understood sofar: Webasto pin-1 of the 6-pole connector will be connected straight to pin 2 of the T90 and of course the T90 must be powered by Pin-1 to +12 and Pin-6 to mass. Pin-3 of the T90 seems to be unused.

Now is my question, how to connect a additional GSM wireless unit such as the Webcontrol-2 to the T90 and Webasto heater. A Schema would be so much appreaciated. Especial, what the relay contact should switch..

Thanks a lot,
Wouter



jkuisma said:


> Looks good. Z-wave should work too, and... you can use, in principle, any remote control device which provides either a +12V signal or has a closing relay from which you can get the +12V by feeding continuous 12V to the other of the relay's two NO (normally open) pins.
> 
> The device is my car is called "webcontrol 2" and it is sold by the Finnish Webasto distributor. I believe the device itself is made in Estonia. I can't find the product data in English anywhere, this is in Finnish. I've seen similar devices from maaany vendors, cheapest I've come across so far costs about 100 euros plus a GSM subscription of your choice. The good thing in Webcontrol is, that you can command it with SMS from anywhere in the world and you can set the waiting time (in text message) after which the heater will activate. I just sent my car an SMS as my return flight from Oslo seems to be leaving as scheduled.
> 
> Jouko


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

This is probably not a great idea, but for what it is worth I am wondering if other UK owners might be interested in a 'practical' GTG on parking heaters, with the aim of us all leaving with fully functional control by remote fob, SMS/GSM and even z-wave control (I don't fully understand the last but it sounds great).

It looks as if the T90's plus fob may be made in Poland for VW but also available direct on Ebay. If Wouter or someone else has sourced a genuine supplier (at 159euro) perhaps we could bulk buy (retail through VW is around £475 to buy). I do not have the technical skills or tools for the job but rather than take just my car to a VW garage, which I am considering, which would cost me some £700 for the T90 plus fob fitted, perhaps we could share a mechanic or have a GTG at Webasto specialist or even spoil with cake and coffee a more competent forum member - and bulk modify.

Thoughts?

PETER M


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Always up for a get together. Looking at the practicalities of fitting things in the wheel arch.. and making connexions to the wiring to the heater.... I'll stick with the timer! But happy to watch others struggle!


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> Always up for a get together. Looking at the practicalities of fitting things in the wheel arch.. and making connexions to the wiring to the heater.... I'll stick with the timer! But happy to watch others struggle!


Chicken!!!


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Charming. AND... I didn't rise to the misapprehension of Summerseat as being in Yorkshire out of deference to your feelings.... in this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5557762-Where-are-you-and-what-is-your-car-............

Well, somebody has to live there.:facepalm:

Regards


M


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> Charming. AND... I didn't rise to the misapprehension of Summerseat as being in Yorkshire out of deference to your feelings.... in this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5557762-Where-are-you-and-what-is-your-car-............
> 
> Well, somebody has to live there.:facepalm:
> 
> ...


Mike,

just plagiarised this from Wiki 

_*Early history

Evidence of prehistoric human activity has been discovered in the hills surrounding the town. The artefacts found during the excavation are housed in Bury Museum.[9]

The early Anglo-Saxons who gave Ramsbottom its name progressively felled the woodland during the Middle Ages. Ramsbottom became an area of scatteried woods, farmsteads, moorland and swamp with a small community of families until the late 18th century.*_

Didn't look to have changed much while I was there last week


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> The early Anglo-Saxons who gave Ramsbottom its name progressively felled the woodland during the Middle Ages. Ramsbottom became an area of scatteried woods, farmsteads, moorland and swamp with a small community of families until the late 18th century


 You forgot to mention the inbreeding...

Mind you I'm not from around these parts. I'm from the city of Blackburn originally.. and and an camping here halfway between there and Manchester. Completely surrounded by culture....


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> You forgot to mention the inbreeding...
> 
> Mind you I'm not from around these parts. I'm from the city of Blackburn originally.. and and an camping here halfway between there and Manchester. Completely surrounded by culture....


Mike,

please digest the following (again from Wiki) and tell me Sheep aren't involved

*Prehistory

There is little evidence of prehistoric settlement in the Blakewater valley, in which Blackburn later developed. It is generally thought that most human activity in East Lancashire during this period occurred on hilltops.[citation needed] Evidence of such activity during the Bronze Age has been discovered in the form of urn burials, two examples of which have been found in the hills around Blackburn.*

Stu


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Blackburn is the alma mater of many great geniuses... 
Barry Gray (the man who wrote all the quite clever music for Stingray, Thunderbirds etc), John Mercer (who invented mercerized cotton), another Mercer invented Netlon, Marsden who helped Rutherford split the atom, Michael Winterbottom the famous film maker (I was at school with him), Russel Harty; Wayne Hemingway; author Mick Jackson; Krishnan Guru-Murphy; Richard Bowker (think we overlapped at school too....); Alfred Wainwright; Hargreaves of spinning jenny fame... and... of course... n968412L


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Hi Wouter!



> Did i understand i right, you do have a working "GSM" solution available on your Phaeton using webcontrol 2 and a T90?


Yes!



> As the Danhag solution did not worked out for a Phaeton ( i am wondering why the webcontrol does work and not the Danhag)


The Danhag solution is "too smart". It supports W-BUS signalling directly but has a format which is not compatible with Phaeton. I was in touch with Danhag about two years ago asking if they would be interested in adapting the programming of their products to support the Phaeton but obviously there was no commercial interest for that. So what you need is the "original" T90 installed in the car. You maybe don't want to use the original telestart remote at all, but the receiver needs to be in place...



> i personally would be helped a lot if an basic handwritten figure is available how to interconnect the heater, T90 and additioanlly a Webcontrol 2 as i am not 100% sure about how what to connect the 3 units.


...because the T90 sits inbetween the external GSM/whatever controller and the Webasto heater. I hard a hard time finding the pinout that I got two years ago from a forum which no longer exists (the weather is not optimal to take my own car apart, I'm sure you understand, haha!), but now I found it: you need to feed +12V into pin *X* of the T90 Telestart in order to instruct it to signal "heat" command on W-BUS. When you disconnect the +12V on pin *X*, the T90 will send a shutdown command on W-Bus to the heater. Pretty simple. You can use any remote controller with +12V output.



> My T90 has been ordered today on Ebay for 159 Euro's (new) incl. Paired remote VW unit ( hope this remote will work as the remote seems rather critical for a Phaeton.


Pretty good price for a new unit! Hope you got the right remote - Phaeton seems to be really picky! Just that you know: the T90 works with "all" VW remotes. And all remotes even switch on the +12V output on T90. But not all remotes work correctly with sending out the W-BUS command to heat up a Phaeton. You need to test yourself. Finding the right remote by the part number is really hard: they all look the same and the part number is laser-etched to the remote body, under the battery cover.



> I understood sofar: Webasto pin-1 of the 6-pole connector will be connected straight to pin 2 of the T90 and of course the T90 must be powered by Pin-1 to +12 and Pin-6 to mass. Pin-3 of the T90 seems to be unused.


Exactly. And now you know what to do with the pin *X*as well 

Per: what comes to pairing more than one remote controller, I don't have first hand experience as I only use one remote. What I see in the Webasto manual, though, is that you should be able to pair up to three remotes with the "normal" procedure of disconnecting +12V to the T90 receiver, reconnecting power and pressing "ON" on the remote controller (to be paired) within 5 seconds. Manual says that you can repeat this sequence three times to pair three different remotes. If you pair a fourth, it will override the first and if you start again with the first one all the others will be discarded. 

_Edit: I removed my references to Pin 3 on the Telestart box. I am seeing confusing info on the net whether it was pin 3 or pin 5 you should feed the +12V into. I guess (as my original source is no longer online) I have to take my car apart to investigate which wire I am using... _
Jouko


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

*Phaeton Webasto T90 / Webcontrol 2*

Great Jouko, thanks for the very clear description.
I am now confident to start ...... I will let you know the outcome, first my T90 still has to be delivered and some coldfronts are approaching with plenty of rain in forecast...

After a working T90 (or some local "signal to smoke ratio's") i'll continue with the Webcontrol2 or simular solution. Sounds like fun !
Wouter


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

For whom it mau concern, Here you can find a link for a new T90 incl VW remote on Ebay. I asked for the specific partnumber to be compatible with a Phaeton.... I just have to see when it arrives.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/NEU-Webasto-...802452593?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item4161216471

Wouter




wouterjansen60 said:


> Great Jouko, thanks for the very clear description.
> I am now confident to start ...... I will let you know the outcome, first my T90 still has to be delivered and some coldfronts are approaching with plenty of rain in forecast...
> 
> After a working T90 (or some local "signal to smoke ratio's") i'll continue with the Webcontrol2 or simular solution. Sounds like fun !
> Wouter


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Wouter, 

Please do keep us posted on how this goes. 

PETER M


----------



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

n968412L said:


> Blackburn is the alma mater of many great geniuses...
> Barry Gray (the man who wrote all the quite clever music for Stingray, Thunderbirds etc), John Mercer (who invented mercerized cotton), .......Hargreaves of spinning jenny fame... and... of course... n968412L


 ......who invented the spinning Phaeton.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

*Pin layout GSM module heater*

Hi Jouko, 

Let me know about pin 5 or 3..... Better to be sure before starting the job but i undertsand, you are not jumping to take things apart in artic teperatures . Btw, I did received all items ( T90, remote, antenne and a GSM receiver), so ready for implementation. 

Apart of that, i have had this morning a heater lockup ( not able to activate the heater in the navscreen), no idea why but had to ask the dealer to unlock, and they charged me 80 euros ( inclusive some testing )... Good thing was that they did helped me staight away... 

Ciao, Wouter 


_Edit: I removed my references to Pin 3 on the Telestart box. I am seeing confusing info on the net whether it was pin 3 or pin 5 you should feed the +12V into. I guess (as my original source is no longer online) I have to take my car apart to investigate which wire I am using... _ 
Jouko[/QUOTE]


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Let me know about pin 5 or 3...


 I will. But now that I have browsed through all my notes without finding that info, I will have to dig into the rear parcel shelf to check how I did it  



> Apart of that, i have had this morning a heater lockup ( not able to activate the heater in the navscreen), no idea why but had to ask the dealer to unlock, and they charged me 80 euros ( inclusive some testing )... Good thing was that they did helped me staight away...


 Yep, occasional lockups can happen. It can be various reasons and I've learned my lesson a long time ago - it pays of to buy an own VCDS cable to be able to do code reading and resetting yourself. In fact my Webasto seems to be locked, too. I suspect the circulation pump fault code is up again: I saw it twice last winter and even got a spare pump but have not had the time to replace it yet. It is one of the most common issues with the heater. A new pump is about 150 euros but a pain to get at.


----------



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Wouter, 

Do you need a schematic of the stand heater? I have one. Just send me a PM with your e-mail address so I can send it to you. 

BTW The pinning of the receiver is as follows: Pin 6 is GND, Pin 1 is 12 Volt. And pin 2 connects to the J162 controller for the heater. Whether it sends out a +12 Volt signal or 0 signal to activate the heater, I don't know. I suspect it gives 12 Volts for as long as the heater is supposed to run. Perhaps Youko knows? 

Willem


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Let me know about pin 5 or 3.....


 Finally got my car in to the garage and got to take a look at the wiring of the Telestart receiver. It wasn't pin 5. Nor was it 3  It's pin number four (4). So, in order to tell the T90 to turn on the heater (to send a power-on command via w-bus, that is) one needs to feed +12V to pin 4 of the T90. As I mentioned, my trigger wire comes from a GSM modem. You can use any kind of trigger you like - be it a button/switch, GSM modem, whatever. My GSM box sends constant +12V for the duration of the programmed heating period. I seem to be able to turn off the heater by sending another SMS to the GSM modem (it then cuts the +12v to the T90 receiver). This powers down the heater. 

This use of pin 4 is "undocumented": it is not used by factory wiring of Phaeton - nor any other VW, to my knowledge. I originally got the tip from a bulletin board where guys had a lot of experience with "aftermarket" Telestarts which supported this functionality. And it seems to work with VW branded receivers, too! 

Good luck with the installation, Wouter! 

Jouko


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

WillemBal said:


> ......who invented the spinning Phaeton.


  

Mike won't rise to that, we all know it is he that constantly has his ESP warning illuminated! And now he's fancying a V10 Heaven help us! 

Stu


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Mike won't rise to that, we all know it is he that constantly has his ESP warning illuminated! And now he's fancying a V10 Heaven help us!
> 
> Stu


 Constantly?? Twice in 3 years? Mind you, had a bit of it today getting home the last mile early PM. It probably is easier in a V10... I like to be able to compare and contrast....


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Perfect parking heater and snow tyre weather. I think it's the same across much of Europe. Most Phaeton owners will be pretty smug I think.....


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

n968412L said:


> Perfect parking heater and snow tyre weather. I think it's the same across much of Europe. Most Phaeton owners will be pretty smug I think.....


 Can't see mine at the moment, just a couple of big white hillocks!


----------



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

n968412L said:


> Constantly?? Twice in 3 years? Mind you, had a bit of it today getting home the last mile early PM. It probably is easier in a V10... I like to be able to compare and contrast....


 Only twice in 3 years? Mike, you must be kidding, or you disappoint me, or your ESP light is dead. Did you really never even challenge the snow with ESP off? 
Just press the button marked “ESP off” and switch the gear handle to Sport. Then hit the throttle as deep as you can. In this snow, it’s big fun! Both acceleration and handling are so exciting on snowy roads!  It must be even more fun in a V10. 

Willem


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

> Did you really never even challenge the snow with ESP off?


 I've never done so on country roads as I have no desire to turn my Phaeton into the Ditchfinder General...


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

*Webasto pin setting t90 on Phaeton*



jkuisma said:


> Finally got my car in to the garage and got to take a look at the wiring of the Telestart receiver. It wasn't pin 5. Nor was it 3  It's pin number four (4). So, in order to tell the T90 to turn on the heater (to send a power-on command via w-bus, that is) one needs to feed +12V to pin 4 of the T90. As I mentioned, my trigger wire comes from a GSM modem. You can use any kind of trigger you like - be it a button/switch, GSM modem, whatever. My GSM box sends constant +12V for the duration of the programmed heating period. I seem to be able to turn off the heater by sending another SMS to the GSM modem (it then cuts the +12v to the T90 receiver). This powers down the heater.
> 
> 
> Great job Jouko, thx for checking this specific wiring.! As i am in Asia for two weeks right now, i actually do miss all the snow fun in Europe this moment.. but as soon i get back, i will setup a test enviroment, and than go for final fitting. My heater went nearly in lockup again, could indeed be a faulty circling pump... keep you updated.
> ...


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

WillemBal said:


> Only twice in 3 years? Mike, you must be kidding, or you disappoint me, or your ESP light is dead. Did you really never even challenge the snow with ESP off?
> Just press the button marked “ESP off” and switch the gear handle to Sport. Then hit the throttle as deep as you can. In this snow, it’s big fun! Both acceleration and handling are so exciting on snowy roads!  It must be even more fun in a V10.
> 
> Willem


 Yes.. only twice in 3 years. I've been very pleasantly surprised at how poised the V6 is on the twisting roads with have over the Pennines here. Britain's roads are too crowded to get as much chance to practice as we need if, as Harry so quaintly puts it, we're to avoid damaging the vanashing hedgerows of old England. On the other hand, the V6 in snow on 19" wheels and summer tyres was pretty scary. It's a different beast completely on 17" winter tyres! 

I'll keep my eye on the ESP light... but I don't think I'll be seeing it much this year (once the snow's gone). 

If we have a European get-together, remind me not to have a ride in your car! At least not with your driving  

Only joking. 
Regards 
Mike


----------



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

n968412L said:


> Yes.. only twice in 3 years. I've been very pleasantly surprised at how poised the V6 is on the twisting roads with have over the Pennines here. Britain's roads are too crowded to get as much chance to practice as we need if, as Harry so quaintly puts it, we're to avoid damaging the vanashing hedgerows of old England. On the other hand, the V6 in snow on 19" wheels and summer tyres was pretty scary. It's a different beast completely on 17" winter tyres!


Hi Mike,
With all this snow, I was very happy to finally put 18" Nokian WR A3 on my rims. A world of difference compared to my rather worn out summer tyres!



> If we have a European get-together, remind me not to have a ride in your car! At least not with your driving


Haha! :laugh: Don’t worry Mike, I’ll drive like an undertaker in action (at least on country roads with ditches). I drove my car in a ditch only twice this year. 



> If we have a European get-together...


Does this sound like you are in for a European GTG? Good idea. There are some interesting places with good accommodation around here and we could combine a Dresden visit with it. In the spring, when the snow is (hopefully) gone, would be the right time. Just let me know (other members too) if you want me to organize something. 

Willem


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Willem, 
I certainly would like to join on a tour to the Dresden facility and meet fellow Phaeton owners. 


Wouter

In the spring, when the snow is (hopefully) gone, would be the right time. Just let me know (other members too) if you want me to organize something. 

Willem[/QUOTE]


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

This probably should go to a fresh thread if it has 'legs', but, re. Dresden GTG thoughts, does anyone know if there are any 10th anniversary plans?

From the website http://www.glaesernemanufaktur.de/en/idea/10-years-of-volkswagen-in-dresden there are some dates coming up, i.e.:

28 June 2002 Handover of the first Phaeton 
11 March 2003 Volkswagen AG Annual Press Conference 
Autumn 2003 Long-wheelbase version of the Phaeton 
11 November 2004 Market launch of the Phaeton V6 

PETER M


----------



## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

*10th Anniversary .*



PeterMills said:


> This probably should go to a fresh thread if it has 'legs', but, re. Dresden GTG thoughts, does anyone know if there are any 10th anniversary plans?
> 
> PETER M


The Factory did celebrate it's 10th Anniversary with two big Parties in December. If you enter the Glaserne Manufaktur German Website, there are lots of photographs of the celebrations.

keep an eye out for Pic No.27.......I'm looking pretty :laugh:

Frank


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Frank,

Can't find anything - can you give a link?

PETER M


----------



## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

*10th Anniversary*



PeterMills said:


> Frank,
> 
> Can't find anything - can you give a link?
> 
> PETER M


Hi Peter

If you log on to : glasernemanufaktur.de

then click on :" Ruckblick Festakt and Gala 10Jahre Faszination Automobilbau"

which I believe is on the first page, you will find the official photographs of the party that was held at the Factory to celebrate 10 wonderful years of producing our fantastic cars.

The pics show many of Great and the Good of Deutschland .....and a couple of English peasants that manage to weedle their way in ! 

Frank


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Can only find the Operatic event photos, with Sir Bob Geldof present - I wonder if he has or had a (discreet) Phaeton?

Chris


----------



## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

Paximus said:


> Can only find the Operatic event photos, with Sir Bob Geldof present - I wonder if he has or had a (discreet) Phaeton?
> 
> Chris


Hi Chris

Where is the pic of Sir Bob please ? I cannot find it. The Operatic Event was part of the celebrations. I think Geldof must have some connection to the Factory, Two years ago when we were in Dresden, we saw him being picked up outside our hotel by a Factory Phaeton . 

Frank


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Where is the pic of Sir Bob...
> Frank


Hi Frank,

It's a Flash viewer unfortunately so I can't link direct, but this gets you there. Then select Semperopernball 2011, it's photo 18.

http://www.glaesernemanufaktur.de/viewer/

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

So here is Frank and his skipper:

http://www.glaesernemanufaktur.de/d...d-gala-10-jahre-faszination-automobilbau.html 

take cursor to RH side of photo and go to photo 27.

Frank, you kept a bit quiet about that didn't you old son!

What have you got in your hand?

PETER M


----------



## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

*Galserne Manufaktur 10th Anniversary*



PeterMills said:


> What have you got in your hand?
> 
> PETER M


Peter 

It was a headphone set which helped us translate what was being said on the Stage. 

We were in Dresden for 3 days. The original plan was for VW to fly us directly from Heathrow to Dresden on the Friday. Unfortunately that flight was cancelled and we were routed to Dussledorf, put up at a hotel and then flown from Dussledorf to Dresden the next morning.

The evening at the Factory was memorable and we felt very privileged to have been there. About 1000 guests in all from all over the World. All either Phaeton owners or VW people who were or had been involved in the Phaeton project. 

Frank


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Frank,

Lucky you and your wife. It is nice for the rest of us Brits to know we were represented by you at what must have been a memorable evening.

PETER M


----------



## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*My Mate Frank*

Tell them Frank how you refused your bonus from BG 
FR and Min go in big circles :thumbup:


----------



## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

plastech said:


> Tell them Frank how you refused your bonus from BG
> FR and Min go in big circles :thumbup:


You're right Tony  I sweated blood for BG in 32 years of loyal and faithful service as man and boy ! 

......and in my final year, they finally offered me a Bonus..............to leave !!!!! 

Frank


----------



## Francis007 (Aug 20, 2006)

plastech said:


> FR and Min go in big circles :thumbup:


Tony

Are you still enjoying the warmth of Florida ?

Now remember.....don't lay too long on the Beach.....nothing to do with too much sun........
It's just that a group of well meaning people might spot you and try to drag you back into the sea ! :laugh:

See ya soon !

Francis


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Here the items used to make a remote controlled parkheater, T90, antenna, GSM receiver and relays.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

As my front bumper is off now, i have time to find the 6 Pins Webasto connector. OMG, not easy to reach. Now figuring out how to unplug it without breaking anything...


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

Wouter, 

Very interested in this, so please keep us posted. 

PETER M


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

PeterMills said:


> Wouter,
> 
> Very interested in this, so please keep us posted.
> 
> PETER M


 Wouter, 

x2:thumbup: 

Stu


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Tight space*

Yes, it is tight... Been there, done that  

/p


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Per, 

Any advise how to lose this connector without breaking things. It seems on the right side of this connector you can easely move a locking clip, what else did you do to release the connector as i know you were there before and succesfully  

Did you removed the "inside wheel and bottom" fender aswell? Thx, 
Wouter


----------



## Juhani (Sep 15, 2012)

*Coding*

Does anyone know password to access coding of controller 18.
Car has parking heater enabled, timer works from central display, and it has fuse B29 5 amp inplace, and on backself there is blackbox "Telestart" connected.
I have T91 remote, but have not been succesful to pair it yet. 
Heater works but does not heat engine. Test mode of controller 18 has pump, water valve, blower installed,you can hear them apply.
It seems that most elegant would be to go to coding and enable heating of engine too.
If thats really not possible then need to follow Joukos route and disable water valve.
Juhani


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Juhani,

Welcome to the forum!

Personal Message sent.

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note: * There are additional pictures of the parking heater / supplemental heater installed on the Phaeton at this post: Some interesting photos of a dis-assembled Phaeton

There is additional discussion about fitment of the parking heater / supplemental heater in a Phaeton at this post: Standheizungen (Parking Heater) - OEM installation

Also, photos and PDFs have been re-hosted on this discussion (primarily on page 1) and on the two above-referenced discussions.

Michael


----------



## cata1569 (Jun 25, 2012)

I have on my car just like in this pictures. Does it mean i have only auxiliary heater ? How could i make parking heater to work ? Could somebody send a PM to showing how to do ?

















Thanks.
Cata.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Cata,

Referring that screens it seems you do have a heater facility. Just engage "heating" and it should start. I am not sure wether the outside temp. should be below 4 degrees celcius in order to start, i know the auxheater only works below 4 degrees.

If not, you need the VCDS tool in order to scsn on faults ( the heater might be locked due to faults in the systems). This is just a basic message, there are way more specialists on this forum)

Cheers,

Wouter


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

Hi everyone!

The temp sensor of my factory fitted webasto recently failed.
I took the webasto unit off from the car, opened the webasto control unit and changed the temp sensor.(ntc 10kohm) cost of the sensor was 50 cents(local electronics shop)
Put everything back together, cleared the codes and started the webasto through vcds.
Everything worked.(Success! I thought)
But i cant start the webasto from the navigation unit, neither does the T90 do the job.
I assume the webasto is still locked.
How to unlock it?
I live in northern Finland and its getting crispy this weekend.


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> I took the webasto unit off from the car, opened the webasto control unit and changed the temp sensor.(ntc 10kohm)


Good job! As you may know, the only "Webasto official" repair procedure is replacement of the whole system board. 



> I assume the webasto is still locked. How to unlock it?


Your symptoms sound a bit odd. The lockout is reported as a normal fault code and it can be reset simply by hitting "clear DTCs" in the fault code reading window of VCDS.

In case you don't have the lockout fault stored in Webasto, I have only two ideas left:

- Not enough diesel in the fuel tank? Webasto will not fire up if there's less than about 20 liters left
- Engine not running and not enough charge in accessory battery? (you should see a fault code in VCDS)

Good luck!

Jouko


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

Very odd indeed.
Theres enough diesel and i have tried with engine running.
Webasto has no trouble codes and can be started with vcds 
Seems like webasto has trouble communicating with the climate control.
Another thought is that theres a error in the climate control unit - somekind of airflow flap on thepassenger side needs adaptions or smth.
Could this prevent it to turn webasto on?


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Seems like webasto has trouble communicating with the climate control.


The Telestart remote receiver communicates with the heater directly (there is a single-wire w-bus going from telestart receiver to pin 1 of the Webasto unit). This communication does not involve the climate control. What happens when you try to switch on the Webasto using the remote? Do you get a green "acknowledgement" LED on the remote? Or does it keep on blinking? The Telestart does 2-way communication with Webasto. Should everything be OK with the heater, the LED on the remote will glow constant green for a few seconds. A flashing led indicates either a problem reported by Webasto or (more likely) that the remote is not paired with the Telestart receiver.

It is difficult to imagine what could be wrong with the communication between ZAB (the central control/display unit) and the Webasto. They are both connected to the comfort CAN bus and if you can access both with VCDS they should definitely see each other.

Does the Webasto turn on as a supplemental heater? (do a cold start, let the car idle for a few minutes. Do you see/hear the Webasto starting up? Turn off the engine. Do you hear the Webasto heater powering down?) If this supplemental mode works, you can be pretty sure the heater is OK and this is a gremlin of some other sort.

Jouko


----------



## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

PhaetonV10-EST said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> But i cant start the webasto from the navigation unit, neither does the T90 do the job.
> I assume the webasto is still locked.


Any use?...


02251 - Heater Unit Locked

02251 - Heater Unit Locked
Possible Symptoms
Heater not working
Heater Module refuses to clear Fault Codes
Possible Causes
Fuel Level low
Possible Solutions
When found in Aux Heater module of VW Touareg (7L), unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 003, then clear fault codes.

When found in Aux Heater module of VW Touran (1T, and similar models), unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 042, then clear fault codes.

When found in Aux Heater module of VW Transporter (7H), unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 003, then clear fault codes.

When found in Aux Heater module of Audi A8 (4E), unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 007, then clear fault codes.

When found in Aux Heater module of VW Phaeton, unlock heater module by saving a 1 in Adaptation Channel 003, then clear fault codes.


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

AFAIK:
Unlock heater module by saving a


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

Adaption button is inactiv. Allready tried one code to get it activ, but it didnt work.
If anyone has the code, i would kindly accept it.
on the moment i cant make any coding or adaptions 

Theres no trouble codes stateing that webasto is locked.
Residueal heat button works just fine and the remote seems to work also(it might te t70 though) green light stays on for 2 seconds.
Also i could hear some movements in the dash after pressing the ON button on the remote.
Seems like it tries to activate the webasto but cant.
thats about it, no activity in the webasto, also the green light on the instruments cluster doesnt come on.


----------



## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

PhaetonV10-EST said:


> Adaption button is inactiv. Allready tried one code to get it activ, but it didnt work.
> If anyone has the code, i would kindly accept it.
> on the moment i cant make any coding or adaptions
> 
> ...


Do you mean the button you click in VCDS is greyed-out?
What version are you running?
I have never seen that. Is it normal for other modules?
Try disconnecting batteries to reboot modules.

If you can get in, Channel 000 is reset factory defaults.


----------



## Breezzze (Sep 30, 2012)

*Security Code*

Dear Sirs,
Have get lock of Aux heater, because of no flame.
Can anyone write me security code to unlock adaptation?
thanks in advance


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Breezzze said:


> Can anyone write me security code to unlock adaptation?


Is it possible that the code you need is contained in post #168, above?

Michael


----------



## Breezzze (Sep 30, 2012)

PanEuropean said:


> Is it possible that the code you need is contained in post #168, above?
> 
> Michael


 I have adaptation button inactive (grayed out). I think there is special security code for security access block, with which I can access adaptation menu....
So I talking about code that mentioned in posts #159 and #160 above....


----------



## Breezzze (Sep 30, 2012)

Breezzze said:


> I have adaptation button inactive (grayed out). I think there is special security code for security access block, with which I can access adaptation menu....
> So I talking about code that mentioned in posts #159 and #160 above....


Still can't access to adaptation. Adaptation button greyed out and inactive. security code does not help at all. Any Ideas?


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Adaptation button greyed out and inactive. security code does not help at all. Any Ideas?


You've got non-commercial or pirated version of VCDS? You need to use the licensed version to access adaptation and coding functionality.

Jouko


----------



## Breezzze (Sep 30, 2012)

*Manual auxiliary heater unlock*



PhaetonV10-EST said:


> Adaption button is inactiv. Allready tried one code to get it activ, but it didnt work.


I had same problem. May be it a software (VCDS) related problem. I plan to connect and test this block later in dealer workshop.
So, I found way to unlock aux heater manually. Here is instruction:
Preparation:
- Open driver footwell fuse panel (details in this topic) and find 20A fuse SB16. That's 16th fuse in top line of fuses.
-- Unlock instruction --
1. Disconnect fuse for 3 sec
2. Connect fuse then immediately press on button on remote control or on timer unit (I use remote control)
3. wait 3 seconds and disconnect fuse
4. wait 3 seconds and connect fuse
---
For me aux heater is unlocked after this


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

jkuisma said:


> You've got non-commercial or pirated version of VCDS? You need to use the licensed version to access adaptation and coding functionality.


Just to clarify Jouko's very good observation above: It is possible for anyone to download the VCDS (VAG-COM) software from Ross-Tech's internet site, but the software will only operate at full potential if the user has purchased an OBD cable from Ross-Tech. The Ross-Tech OBD cables are 'intelligent' cables, they have a security chip in them that tells the software 'this is a genuine Ross-Tech cable', and thus enables full functionality of the VCDS software.

It is possible to purchase generic OBD cables from many vendors (primarily in Asia) - these cables are not expensive, and they are common to all cars (not just VW), but because they are not Ross-Tech cables, if you attempt to use a generic cable with the VCDS software, the VCDS software will not function fully.

In other words - it's the physical device (the Ross-Tech OBD cable) that contains the licence for the software, not the software itself.

Michael


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi all, 

My Webasto heater was just working fine last weeks. Now as it starts snowing it suddenly refuse duty when starting using the panel "heater" button. When selecting the heater button, i can instantly hear the waterpump, but that is all. 

Using VCDS i cant see any fault, i tried adaption channel 3, chaging the "0" into "1", push the test buttom and save ( but after that the "0" remains). 

Additionally i performed a test, i can hear the pump, but it just wont start. There is sufficient fuel available. Fuse 16 is fine as i can select "heater". 

What could be wrong here? I have a strong feeling that the standard supplemental mode is not even operational anymore. 

Any thoughts? Thanks, 

Wouter


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Wouter, 
Can you hear the pump clicking? If you don't it might well be the culprit. However before replacing it, it might be worth checking that there is current feeding it. 
Cheers. 

Gabriel


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Gabriel, 

Thanks for your reply, no, the clicking sound is not there either at the rearside where the pump is located. When testing i can hear the combustion fan too. But thats all. No starting sound at all. 
Cheers, 
Wouter


----------



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Wouter, 

I hope your ride back home was enjoyable with the new suspension parts  
What is adaptation channel 3 supposed to do? The label file doesn't list any adaptation nor any MVB's (measured value blocks). 

Is the controller error free? And if you cleared the faults, which faults were present in the controller prior to clearing them? 

And when you manually switch on the heater via the AC extra menu, do you see that the colour of the small rectangle next to the button turns yellow? Do you see the green icon in the instrument cluster? 

Willem


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Willem, 

A fantastic new driving experiance, and no more crunching noise from the controlarms and bushings thanks to Ron Batenburg at Putten. 

Now i have to solve a new heater issue ..... Really no clue what is wrong as the is no fault messsage neither it seems locket ( the channel 3, code 1 was a unlock procedure as mentioned in this thread). 

The heater (channel 18) is completely fault free. I can engage the heater button, indeed it turns into yellow, but basically it wont start up as usual with all accopanied noises. Nothing, i just can hear the pump at the heater starting. Before it took a few minutes before the internal blower start, however now when engagoing it start right away, that is different than before i was used to... 

Gabriel mentioned possibly a fuelpump failure, and he could be right as i dont hear it clicking as it did before when engaging. I have no idea where to search as there is not a single fault in VCDS. 

Thanks, 
Wouter


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Just thinking over the heater. It behaves at the moment the same like it is a hot summer day and turning on the webasto just for fresh air . The heater behaves now like that. Therefor the NTC resistor or temp sensor could be the culprit. No fun as this baseunit is hidden... Very hidden :-(


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Wouter,
Our Phaetons feature two outside temperature sensors: one at the front bumper and another one that sits next to the brake booster, in the same housing as the air quality sensor.
Did you scan the climatronic control unit, just in case one of those sensors was not measuring right?

Gabriel


----------



## alex_at (Aug 13, 2011)

Hi @all,

when I first got my Phaeton 2 years ago, I thought the auxiliary heater would heat up the interior and the engine. Unfortunately only the passenger cabin gets heated up. 

After reading some posts here - has anyone tried to recode the parking heater from "shutoff valve present" to "shutoff valve not present" - and tried what happens when the valve is still connected but coded as not present?

Does this heat up my engine as well?


Many thanks.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Gabriel,
Although the outside temp here is about zero Celcius, i performed a quick scan om the heater and climatronic control unit. Later tonight i will include the VCDS pics.

The temparatures from both temp. sensors HVAC seems equal and correct in value (3 degrees). 

I noticed on the heater in measuring blocks channel 18 this weird value;
3D0-815-005 LBL ( there are 4 blocks in group 1h
- Voltage 11,6V (i know its low due to the cold and VCDS reading), but not yet reason for not working
- Temp 94 degrees ??????? ( is this the internal NTC value?)
- Stage 1
- Manual

Group 7;
- enabled
- errorcode 31
- errorcode 240
- errorcode 343

The HVAC often give a fault like DTC memory.... 

Any ideas?


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Wouter,
Could not 94º be the engine coolant temperature? 
As far as I know the cotrol unit of the auxiliary heater monitors the coolant temperature in order to warm or to protect the engine from overheating.

Gabriel


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Gabriel,
perhaps It could be a memory value. But the car is cold and not used for 1 day. 
Cheers


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Also, if the coolant temperature is below that, perhaps the auxiliary heater temperature sender is faulty. Therefore if it indicates that the coolant temperature is 94º when it is not, that might be the reason why the heater does not turn on.


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello again Wouter,
Reading some technical information about Webasto heaters I came across a section that states: 

"The error lockout condition may only be reset by disconnection of electrical power to the control unit (e.g. by removing fuse F1 for at least 10 seconds). The fuse must be removed with the engine running or within 60 seconds after turning the engine off."

It might be worth giving it a try...
Cheers.

Gabriel


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

wouterjansen60 said:


> Hi Gabriel,
> Although the outside temp here is about zero Celcius, i performed a quick scan om the heater and climatronic control unit. Later tonight i will include the VCDS pics.
> 
> The temparatures from both temp. sensors HVAC seems equal and correct in value (3 degrees).
> ...


 
Here the Pics:

I really start to believe the internal Webasto heatsensor is causing the faulure for starting the heater.

1. The first pic. is most interesting, as the measured temp is about 94 degrees C while the car is in absolute cold condition. Could this be the reason why the Webasto " thinks" it too hot to start up and just do ventilation?? Sounds like logic. Question now, where is that sensor, hopefully not the internal NTC in the webasto itself :-( Additional you can see some errorcodes, in group 7, no clue what it tells me.

2. Second Pic is a overview of the two outside air temp sensors, those seems to be ok

3. Third pic is about adaption when the heater is locked (it is not), however interesting here is that it seems impossible to save the "1" in channel 3. Just curious.


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Wouter,
It is a pity that my Phaeton is currently at the body shop. Otherwise I would replicate your tests to see what I could come up with in order to compare results. 
Perhaps there is a volunteer somewhere in the forum who could kindly spare a few minutes...
The only thing that I can think of is removing fuse 16 for at least 10 seconds as indicated in my previous post and see if resets the heater controller.
With regards to the location of the coolant temperature sensor, as far as I know it is at the heater control module, that is, on top of the heater itself.
Good luck!

Gabriel


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Wouter, the Webasto internal coolant temperature sensor is a common item to fail. "Officially" the only cure is to replace the Webasto circuit board. I am actually unsure if you can even get the VW OEM circuit board as a replacement or if you have to exchange the whole heater unit (I believe so). But, for you, this is no problem. The temperature sensor can be replaced separately as long as you have some soldering skills. See here. I had the same fault in my previous car with an "aftermarket" Webasto. Did end up having the circuit board repaired by a very skilled dude who charged 40 euros for the job (the repair procedure was not common knowledge back then).



> "The error lockout condition may only be reset by disconnection of electrical power to the control unit (e.g. by removing fuse F1 for at least 10 seconds). The fuse must be removed with the engine running or within 60 seconds after turning the engine off."


Gab, I believe this is true for the aftermarket Webastos which do not have OBD diagnostics capability. The adaptation reset procedure does the same thing for Phaeton. Had to do it to my car once again this week. The lockout is always reported as a fault in VCDS.



> After reading some posts here - has anyone tried to recode the parking heater from "shutoff valve present" to "shutoff valve not present" - and tried what happens when the valve is still connected but coded as not present?


Alex: My car has factory installed park heater and has the valve present. I first installed a on-on switch to select either the original valve or a lightbulb simulating the valve. This was before the coding trick was widely known on the forum. I have since done the coding but also have the switch in place. If I turn the switch to the solenoid valve position, I believe I still get the Webasto to pull the valve and heat up the cabin only. I can confirm this as soon as I get my heater fired up again.

Anyway, it is a 5-min job to pull the plug from the solenoid valve and it will be gone for good. And once you do the coding, Webasto does no longer check if its there or not. I'd recommend this.

Jouko

PS: Will need to get my front end apart (again). My heater has deemed the glow plug / flame sensor is defective. I have had a spare in my shelf for a few years but have not had the motivation to replace it earlier (it is a consumable part, really). Looking at the ELSA, this is quite a time consuming exercise: bumper and inner wheel well lining will have to come off...


----------



## alex_at (Aug 13, 2011)

@ jkuisma: Thanks for your reply and hello to Finland! How's the weather in Finland right now?


As I understood your post, it would be sufficient to just recode the parking heater to "shutoff valve not present" to see if the parking heater would heat up my engine as well. If that works, should I keep the connector on the valve connected or should I disconnect it? 


In terms of recoding:

First I go to Module 18 - and then? Could you give me a short explanation how to disable the coolant valve? Do I need any login code or similar?


Thanks in advance,


Alex


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

@Gabriel / Jouko,

Thanks for your advises, indeed it seems what i was affraid for, bumper and inner fender off job, not my favourite job in winter :-(

Lets see how to remove the webasto unit.....

Cheers,

Wouter


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

Breezzze said:


> I had same problem. May be it a software (VCDS) related problem. I plan to connect and test this block later in dealer workshop.
> So, I found way to unlock aux heater manually. Here is instruction:
> Preparation:
> - Open driver footwell fuse panel (details in this topic) and find 20A fuse SB16. That's 16th fuse in top line of fuses.
> ...


Since everything else failed, i once more tried this manual unlocking and this time it happened.
I was now able to turn on the heater via remote or infotainment screen.
a bit of smoke and webasto started up, after ten minutes it stopped and i was not able to start it up again.
Ok, time for troubleshooting - connected the vcds cable and webasto was shut down because of low voltage. 
Seems like the webasto was again locked, but there was now fault code saying it 

After another manual reset and connecting the battery charger to left hand battery everything worked just fine.

Seems like the Mother of all faults on the Phaeton (LH battery) is causing the troubles. i really have to track down the cause why my 1 year old agm battery died.

for Wouterjansen: I just looked the same number via vcds on my car and the temp was showing 52C(engine was warm), most likely you have a bad NTC which is relatively easy to change.
Taking off the webasto is bit annoying though.
Most likely you will break some bolts, so be prepared to use silicon or similar when assembling the ecu to the webasto. Some sorces say the NTC is 12K others say its 10K - i used the 10K since the 12K was not available on local store. Seems like its working fine.

Few days ago i travelled Kajaani Finland.
And it was -27C. A bit crispy i would say 

Good luck with the webasto.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi PV10,

Thanks a lot for your description (i do not know your name, sorry). I will rent a bridge for one day and start with the work. 

Just some additional questions:
- did you removed in total the webasto ( i think you did) or were you able to move it and open the ecu when still more or less in place? 
- is there a workshop description available how to remove?
- incase of total removal and apart of some expected broken bolts, are there any specific problems to expect (cooling water, unreachable bolts etc)?
- The NTC 10k ohms, what wattage did you used
- The NTC is the one located under the tiny metal plate with bolt right?

Thanks again,
Wouter

Ps, what a great forum we have !!!


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

I got the all unit removed in local repairshop.
Its quite straightforward, just go for it.
Cant remember any other data of the NTC, but yeah its located under the metal plate.
i think the tricky part was reconnecting the hoses to the webasto.

Silver.


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Hi Alex!



> How's the weather in Finland right now?


Not bad at all. Only a few degrees below zero Celsius. We've got about 30cm snow here in the south. Looks like we'll get white Christmas so everything's great 



> As I understood your post, it would be sufficient to just recode the parking heater to "shutoff valve not present" to see if the parking heater would heat up my engine as well. If that works, should I keep the connector on the valve connected or should I disconnect it?


Yep. Sorry that I can't check this for you right now - perhaps someone else will - but there will be no harm done if you do this: first, change coding to disable the water valve control. Fire up and see what happens (I believe that the valve is still activated and only cabin is heatesd). Now, if necessary, disconnect the plug from the circulation valve. The valve sits behind the coolant expansion tank (applies to V6TDI). It is enough to remove the one bolt holding the coolant tank in place and push the tank aside. The circulation valve is in the left fender, exactly behind the coolant tank. Its 2-pin connector is on top, directly accessible. Just disconnect it.



> First I go to Module 18 - and then? Could you give me a short explanation how to disable the coolant valve? Do I need any login code or similar?


You go to "coding". Select channel 004. It should have 1 as the current value. Change it to 0 and apply changes to control unit. That's it. Umm, yes, I think you need to "login" to the controller first. This is done right after opening the controller, before selecting "coding". Press "security access". The code you will need is 22106.



> connected the vcds cable and webasto was shut down because of low voltage.
> Seems like the webasto was again locked, but there was now fault code saying it


Just a comment: a low voltage condition should not cause the Webasto to lock up. Low voltage is "normal". The lock up should only happen if a more serious fault happens a number (three?) of times. Glow plug / flame detector or overheat (temp sensor) are common causes for this. In all cases, you should get a fault code with VCDS. Would it make sense to monitor the coolant temp the Webasto sees while you test run it? In case your NTC was not exactly the same component, could it be that the heater thinks it overheats (again, there should be a fault code)?



> is there a workshop description available how to remove?


Wouter, this is what the workshop manual says on the subject:

Removing 
– First remove front bumper → Rep. Gr.63. 
– Remove front left wheel housing liner → Rep. Gr.66. 
– Remove noise insulation → Rep. Gr.50. 
– Clamp off cooling system hoses using hose clamps, up to 40 mm Ø -VAS 3093- or hose clamps, up to 25 mm Ø -VAS 3094-. 
DANGER!
Danger of scalding injuries. 
The cooling system is pressurised. When the engine is warm, the coolant temperature may be above 100 C. If necessary, release pressure before carrying out repairs. 

– Pull coolant hoses off auxiliary coolant heater. 
DANGER!
Danger of fuel escaping. Fuel system is under pressure. 
Before opening system, wrap a cloth around the connection. Then release pressure by carefully loosening the connection. 

Pull off connectors and remove (THREE) bolts -arrows- for bracket. (THERE ARE TWO ILLUSTRATIONS SHOWING THE LOCATIONS OF BOLTS)

– Remove auxiliary coolant heater with bracket. 

SO, basically the heater comes out as a "complete package" fixed to a mounting bracket. Exhaust and everything. The bumper removal is necessary to gain enough room for the operation.

I will try this in my garage, although I am sure it would be a lot easier working on a lift.

You will have to clamp the coolant hoses with good clamps or be prepared to refill the coolant system as most of the fluid will drain out as you disconnect the hoses from Webasto. My plan, actually, is to change the coolant while I am at it.

Jouko


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

jkuisma said:


> Just a comment: a low voltage condition should not cause the Webasto to lock up. Low voltage is "normal". The lock up should only happen if a more serious fault happens a number (three?) of times. Glow plug / flame detector or overheat (temp sensor) are common causes for this. In all cases, you should get a fault code with VCDS. Would it make sense to monitor the coolant temp the Webasto sees while you test run it? In case your NTC was not exactly the same component, could it be that the heater thinks it overheats (again, there should be a fault code)?
> 
> Jouko


My thoughts exactly!
Thats why i took the cable to check it out.
Only the voltage fault and nothing else.
Ill do some testing tomorrow and will report back to you.
About the NTC: i used 10k and "IF" theres originally 12k i should be perfectly safe. If temp is 100C ntc 12k gives 960 ohm resistans and 960ohm from 10k ntc = actual temp 90C
So i rather recommend 10k than 12k. Unless you are 100% sure its a 12k there originally.


----------



## alex_at (Aug 13, 2011)

@jkuisma:

Oh, you have about the same weather in Finland as we do have in Austria at the moment. 

I think it should be enough to just recode to "valve not present", cause if the parking heater does think that there is no valve present, it won't send a command to close the valve. Or does it?


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

During a short trip i measured a coolent temperature of 150 degrees Celcius (should be 60 degrees when measuring) versus 94 degrees in cold condition ( which should be 3). For sure the Webasto internal NTC has to be replaced.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

*Solved!!*

Hi all,

Problem solved, here stand a happy man again  . As this not working Webasto without errors in VCDS annoyed me more and more, especial when the temperature started to reach levels below zero, , i went today to a Webasto main dealer, just to see the size/ and model of the internal temp. sensor NTC 10k and being able to buy a correct new one. 

The Webasto dealer enjoyed the fact that i came very well prepared with schedules, pics, VCDS prints etc, and decided to find a spare NTC from a depreciated unit. Nice. 

Weird enough, when we took a look at the problem, out of nothing the Webasto started up.... Immediately necognized the "barking" sound, problably the threat to take the whole thing apart decided the Webasto to work again....

A new VCDS check acknowlegded our thoughts, the temp mesuring was ok now, no more 150 degrees, but a steady 90 degrees. So i would have loved to say i fixed it myself, however the car cured itself... The NTC is however doubtfull, anyway THAT was the problem.

Good for others to know.

All thanks for your support like always!!

Wouter

Pic 1. : circuit board incl. internal temp. sensor (NTC)
Pic 2 : Normal temperature out of nothing (note, the error codes under 7 still there in working condition)
Pic 3 : See the graph, temp falls suddenly back from 150 to visible 120 to approx. 90 degress Celcius


----------



## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Hi Wouter,

On the photo, it looks like the NTC is freely "floating" in an opening in the PCB. It also looks like there is some heat insulating (white) material between the PCB and some metal part underneath that insulation. When the NTC is mounted as it looks, then it is measuring a temperature which might as well be the same as the entire electronics. Could it be that the NTC is in fact attached, bonded or pressed against the metal under the heat insulating material?

What is the measured temperature representing? The temperature of the heated coolant? The combustion chamber?

Willem


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Willem,

The NTC is, when build together connected to a metal housing measuring coolingwater. Perhaps i was a bit unclaer, but this is not my unit, this was just a example unit from Webasto, to show me how the actual NTC did look like. I did not changed my NTC yet as it sudenly operates fine again.

My webasto really started working out of nothing. It might very well fail again soon, however the NTC seems to be the trouble maker. The temp. Given in the chart seems the cooling water temp.

A separate PTC ( overheating sensor) is located at the outside body of the Webasto.

Wouter


----------



## Juhani (Sep 15, 2012)

alex_at said:


> @jkuisma:
> 
> Oh, you have about the same weather in Finland as we do have in Austria at the moment.
> 
> I think it should be enough to just recode to "valve not present", cause if the parking heater does think that there is no valve present, it won't send a command to close the valve. Or does it?


Yes, I did coding only on my and now it heats engine also. No error codes either, but I think the residual heat feature is not there anymore? But heater works from timer and remote and heats engine also, so its OK


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

Guys, doesn't the aux heater FIRST heat the compartment, THEN the engine? At least that's what mine seems to do. I have a W12 with heater and the engine is usually around 50°C when I crank it after a heater session. If I run the heater for too short a duration the compartment is warmish and the engine pretty cold.

/p


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Guys, doesn't the aux heater FIRST heat the compartment, THEN the engine? At least that's what mine seems to do.


I guess it kind of does. But my experience is, that even after a longish (30 min) heating in like -10C or so, the interior is hot (like a Finnish sauna) and the engine is still ice cold.

With the valve disabled, the engine warms up well and the cabin just a little bit. Not too much to melt a lot of snow from the roof (causing all sorts of trouble in form of freezing door openings etc), but enough to clear up the glass surfaces from mild frost. I much prefer this and therefore have the valve "permanently disabled".

Jouko


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

I have been useing my aux heater daily now.
It works perfectly from the timer, remote or just by starting a cold engine.
Engine is gettin warm much faster.
All good! Thanks for the help.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Here an other interesting link to a common heater "NTC" temperature sensor problem as i had. Mine temp . Reads 150 degrees C in cold condition now. The result is no start up, just a running fan ( like in a hot summer day).

Unfortunately the Webasto has to come off..


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=IQ7sXoaRim0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=IQ7sXoaRim0&gl=NL

Cheers,
Wouter


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Wouter,
Regarding the faults that you were reading on the VCDS screen, I did some research and it turns out, that they are nor fault codes, but figures that are related to the time that the heater has been in operation, the overall burner fuel cosumption, the current operating time, etc. 
I still have to put the figures in the correct sequence. There are quite a few interesting auxiliary heater measuring blocks so I will report back.
Cheers.

Gabriel


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Unfortunately the Webasto has to come off..


Wouter! Prepare yourself mentally for quite an undertaking! I replaced the glow plug on my Webasto last week. The burner assembly was literally full of ash and stuff. With a cleaner burner and new glow plug all works perfectly again, but... Getting the Webasto out from the car is a REAL pain. I was surprised to learn that the factory service manual only tells half a story. Yes, to get started you need to remove front bumper and the left inner fender. That is supposed to be it, but it isnt: the V6TDI has the charge air intercooler in the way, too. It has to come out. Getting the piping off (and back to) the intercooler is a REAL pain. And the intercooler itself is surrounded by AC pressure pipes in a way, that it is just impossible to get it out. The options were to start dismantling AC components (drier etc) and possibly letting out the freon. Instead, I resorted to breaking one plastic mount of the intercooler, and this way it was possible to lower it down and leave the AC system intact. Then, getting the coolant pipes off the Webasto was not easy at all. About two liters coolant will leak out.

It took me about eight hours to complete the job. Car is not driveable until you have the heater back in place. And do remember that I consider myself almost as a "pro" what comes to r&r of bumper - it took at most an hour of the total time needed... :-I

Good luck!

Jouko


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Jouko,

Thanks for the description, it keeps me now from starting with the job for now :banghead:. I was expecting more or less the work as you mentioned, but indeed those pratical problems such as the intercooler and airco lines are indeed un expected. And indeed, if the work extends, i cant use it till things are in place.

I am just wondering...... As you saw the installation, Incase i remove the bumper and inner fender, might there enough space to remove only the controller cover while the Webasto remains in place. I than can easely " cut" the faulty 12k NTC and replace it soldering on the left leads on the circuitboard ( sure i will hear Willem soon that this is not a proper way of working  )

What is your idea about this? 

8h.... Omg....


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> As you saw the installation, Incase i remove the bumper and inner fender, might there enough space to remove only the controller cover while the Webasto remains in place.


Hmm, this just might be possible! As I was replacing the glow plug, I had to get the whole unit out. But yes, the installation position of the heater is "perfect" in the sense that the top side (where the controller board resides) points to the side of the vehicle. You absolutely need to remove the bumper. And the AC dryer is in the way, too. But I suspect you could loosen the dryer mounts and this just might give enough clearance. Then again, in order to get out the circuit board, you will need to loosen all electric connectors (also the heater internal ones) and this is tricky to do (not to mention putting all back together so that it remains waterproof). So, on a second thought, I think you might get the circuit board out, but doubt you will get it all well back together this way. Photos would have been invaluable here, I know, but I have none. Sorry! 

Jouko


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

I also doubt you can do it without removing the all unit.
The circuit board or the connectors were under the metal bracket.
If i remember correctly. 

Mine was removed without disconnecting any ac parts.
I agree with Jouku that reconnecting the coolant pipes was the most tricky part.
But hey, i still recommend to fix the webasto - its worth it.


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> The circuit board or the connectors were under the metal bracket.
> If i remember correctly.


Now that I think about this, I believe you are right! The metal bracket is pretty massive and wraps around the heater.



> Mine was removed without disconnecting any ac parts.


What about the intercooler? The service manual does not say it needs to come out, but I just cant figure out how one could access the coolant hoses without getting the intercooler out of the way. 

Phaetons which had the "parking heater" ordered from the factory have a pretty complex arrangement of coolant hoses at the heater. This is because there's the 4-way valve above the heater where 4 coolant hoses go into. Two of the four hoses are fixed to the backside of the Webasto mounting bracket in a way, that there is no way to move the bracket anywhere before the hoses are loosened from it. And the mounting bolts are exactly behind the intercooler.

The Phaetons with Webastos as "supplemental heaters" should only have two flexible coolant hoses coming from the engine, going directly to the heater. In this case, I think that it is "more plausible" that the heater can come out without taking out the intercooler first. 

What was the case with your car?

Jouko


----------



## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

I didnt see how the heater was removed.
I got the working car with the webasto in the trunk.
My tech. somehow connected the hoses and the car was driveable while i fixed the unit.

Im quite certain that mine came out from the factory with the parking heater, since i have the oem remote and theres no sign of later modifications. The big valve unit is also present.

Cant remember so clearly anymore, but we managed to install the heater without even removing the bumper. It was a Pita and needed special pliers, about 30 failed attempts, strong language and the car was on a lifter.

Maybe its a bit different on the V6, alltough i doubt that anything is easier with the V10.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Jouko, dont laugh... I started work.. Frontbumper off, inner fender off, no problem (sofar i consider myself as expert too)  

I saw the webasto, two first bolts were easy but the the thirt one to holt the bracket, omg, i never finded it, so the bracket did not come down.... The controlunit actually was reachable even while the webasto is in place, however as expected the 4 topcover bolts snapted... So unfortunately i have to go for a second attempt while bumper is back on already again....the handbook indeed is absolutely incomplete and should mention how to lose the RH side intercooler to be able to reach in a decent way decent all websto stuff..... 

Where is that "hidden" thirt bolt of the webasto bracket?? I really studied the pic for an hour.... 

Cheers, Wouter


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Jouko, dont laugh... I started work..


 Naah, not funny at all! I feel your pain. 



> I saw the webasto, two first bolts were easy but the the thirt one to holt the bracket, omg, i never finded it, so the bracket did not come down....


 Yep, I wonder how the factory manual can be that incomplete. The third bolt is on the other side of the heater (exactly behind the intercooler) and I can't see any othet way of reaching it than taking out the intercooler first. 



> The controlunit actually was reachable even while the webasto is in place, however as expected the 4 topcover bolts snapted...


 Nnngh. The mounting position for the heater is not the nicest one. It really gets its share of road salt and water spray. I had the same bolts snap on another car a few years back. I ended up buying a "spare" heater core. It does not cost much if you get a one with a defective circuit board and without the "accessory" parts. You will want to get the cover properly back on, as the salt and water will otherwise ruin the electronics. Drilling out the remainings of the snapped bolts is possible, of course, but as the core is made of aluminium that was not easy. 



> the handbook indeed is absolutely incomplete and should mention how to lose the RH side intercooler to be able to reach in a decent way decent all websto stuff.....


 My feelings exactly! 



> Where is that "hidden" thirt bolt of the webasto bracket?? I really studied the pic for an hour....


 The workshop manual was completely useless for me, too. The location is obvious as soon as you have the intercooler out of the way. I found it quite impossible to disconnect the coolant hoses without taking out the intercooler. The third bracket bolt is behing the "snake pit" of coolant hoses. 

Jouko


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

*Webasto fixed*

Gents,

All sorted out. I asked professional support due to lack of tools. A local garage removed the Webasto for me while at home i repaired the Webasto. Good to know for all of us is (incase of a V6 TDI) if you want to work in a proper way the following items need to come off;

- Front bumper and foglightcovers
- Left side inner Fender 
- Left side headlight unit and washer unit (mark the 4 bolt positions of the headlight unit in order to prevent a realignment afterwards)
- Left side Intercooler

Its is like Jouko earlier mentioned indeed about 8h labour, a lot just in order to replace a faulty NTC resistor :banghead:. I initially tried to open the controlboard while Webasto was still in place, but the bolts simply will snap off, so eventually you will end up in removing the Webasto anyway. I used locktite 5920 to seal the circuit board cover. The real pain is to reach the 3rd hidden bolt on the rearside of the Webasto. Therfor you need to remove the leftside intercooler and headlight. In the pics you can see where is the "hidden Bolt" located of the bracket ( the Webasto comes off in a bracket).

I was able to renew the 12k NTC resistor, which solved the " assumed overheating (125-150 degrees C)" by the Webasto, even in cold condition. Result was just the fan starting, like it is a warm summer day.

All is working fine again, and meanwhile i added my remote T90. *Important is pin 1 of the Webasto leads to pin 4 of the T90.*. I bought at Webasto a specific pre-wired pin which should be inserted in slot 1 of the 6-pins connector.

Cheers,
Wouter

Note: below mentioned i refer to a previous thread and very usefull advise from perfrej in order to link the remote to the T90, it indeed works great now.

===================================
Originally Posted by perfrej 

I now have the T90 remote working as well (it's getting cold, which prompted me to continue my quest). The secret with the remote was to pair the T90 with the remote dongle. I'm starting to believe that it actually is the Webasto itself that needs to be paired with the dongle, and that the T90 is sort of a proxy or a modem for it. Anyway, procedure was like this:

1) Unplug fuse 16 from the fuse box under the steering wheel and leave off for five seconds (or something)

2) Plug fuse back in, and, within five seconds, press the off button on the dongle for one second.

After that, the remote works! ( steady light on dongle while initiating)
Mount the T90 in the engine compartment and put the antenna inside the plastic wheel house.


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Good job! :thumbup: 

It was probably a good idea to take out the left headlight, should make it easier to remove intercooler. I did not dare to take out my headlight as it seems I always get it back in a slightly different position, causing the need to realign the beam. 

Jouko


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi all,
Although my auxiliary heater works fine, today spending some time scanning my Phaeton with the VCDS tool, I came across the following: with the engine running after an 80km trip the engine temperature according to the VCDS engine blocks measurements was about 89ºC. On the other hand the auxiliary heater measuring group 1 block 2 indicated 113ºC :screwy: eventhough it was turned off.
With the engine off, the temperature gradually and slowly decreased, however after turning on the residual heating, the temperature dropped quite quickly down to 88ºC.
So, is there a hot spot at the auxiliary heater? Any ideas guys? 
Cheers.

Gabriel


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

wouterjansen60 said:


> - Front bumper,
> - Right side inner Fender
> - Right side headlight and washer unit
> - Right side Intercooler


 Good stuff Wouter... can I just check one (three actually) detail.... is it really on the right side of the car.. I know you lot drive on the wrong side... but I didn't realize that was because you call the left the right... 

Or am I being really thick..... I'm sure my Webasto is on the left hand, ie passenger, side.... 

Regards 

M


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Good point, you are right thinking about it. i am confused now what is left or right from which perspective referring to the attached pictures  

Just to be sure Standing in front of the car its located on the right side, so indeed i should mentioned " on the left". 

Let me adapt the original text, thanks  

Cheers, Wouter


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Gabriel, 

Well it seems to me you have exactely the same problem as i had, a faulty NTC causing false readings (see #221) . This is the beginning of a dying NTC (open circuit). In a short time, the Webasto will not start anymore and at this time you might have already a Webasto running in reduced power mode without notice. The heater will not throw any faults neither it will lock due to the faulty internal temp sensor (NTC). 

Unfortunately this NTC is a very common problem of Webasto. Easy to fix, a pain to get there. 

Perhaps this picture is more or less the same like yours, although your temp reading is still a bit lower (half heating power). 










Hope this helps, 

Cheers, 
wouter


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Hi, sorry my question is no where near as interesting as the previous stuff - 
I had my parking heater enabled by a guy with VCDS a couple of months ago and it worked fine until recently. 

Now the screen to select the heater appears OK but when I press the button to select it I can hear a faint noise but neither the yellow selection light appears nor does the green parking heater symbol on the dashboard light up. 

Is this a sign that it has tried to fire up a few times unsucessfully and has locked up and now needs a re-set ?


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Is this a sign that it has tried to fire up a few times unsucessfully and has locked up and now needs a re-set ?


 I think that's likely. My GP1 did this early on. Been fine for three years - but I definitely needed to reset a fault code with VCDS at least once. So... you need to borrow a VCDS again... 

Regards 

M


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

OK, thanks M.


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

wouterjansen60 said:


> Hi Gabriel,
> 
> Well it seems to me you have exactely the same problem as i had, a faulty NTC causing false readings (see #221) . This is the beginning of a dying NTC (open circuit). In a short time, the Webasto will not start anymore and at this time you might have already a Webasto running in reduced power mode without notice. The heater will not throw any faults neither it will lock due to the faulty internal temp sensor (NTC).
> 
> ...


 Hi Wouter,

I checked the NTC temperature reading this morning with a cool engine. It was showing 10ºC, basically the same as the engine coolant and the oil, which showed 10ºC and 12ºC respectively.
I also turned on the auxiliary heater and it runned al full power according to the VCDS screen. 

Later on, this afternoon, after an hour long trip I checked the NTC reading again, and it showed 115ºC. At that time I checked engine measuring block 47-1, that is the coolant temperature at the engine outlet, which showed 94ºC; and also 47-2 that is the coolant temperature at the radiator outlet, which indicated 76ºC. Funny enough the reading for the instrument cluster was 88ºC :screwy:so it would be interesting to find out what sort of data filtering is going on...

I will keep an eye on the NTC reading just in case!

Gabriel


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

AAggghhh - it's gone cold again and heater has bust!

I now get this recurring fault: 01414 Combustion Air Blower (V6) 007 Short to ground.

Any bright ideas? It sounds sort of difficult.... 

Thanks

M


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

It seems you have a problem with the combustion air blower (the webasto consists of 3 major devisions. You can try using VCDS (channel 18) to run a test, the blower can be started seperately. 

If defective, unfortunately the Webasto has to come off (at least 8h work ). You can try to find a spare part at ebay. Only the circuitboard is Phaeton specific.

Good luck,

Wouter


----------



## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

n968412L said:


> AAggghhh - it's gone cold again and heater has bust!
> 
> I now get this recurring fault: 01414 Combustion Air Blower (V6) 007 Short to ground.
> 
> ...


What a coincidence, mine has just died with the identical fault code. My dealer has quoted 3.2 hours to replace the heater, which seems like a bargain even at VW hourly rates,but VW only supplies the complete unit, which adds over £1000 in parts. 

I was hoping one might be able to change the blower without removing the heater, but from Wouter's response it seems not. I am going to try and persuade the dealer to let me repair the existing heater once it is removed -the blower assembly only attaches with four bolts. The service manual is available here: http://www.vw-bus-t4.de/index.php?sid=4&Standheizungen/T5_Aufr_mK.pdf. There is a vendor on Ebay selling new blower assemblies for £99 here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121054994380?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649.

Is there anything else I should be servicing on the heater whilst it is removed?


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

V10Mike said:


> Is there anything else I should be servicing on the heater whilst it is removed?


Keep us posted if you do this! I'll let you know what I find out, if anything, as I investigate mine a bit more.

Thanks

M


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

n968412L said:


> Originally Posted by V10Mike
> Is there anything else I should be servicing on the heater whilst it is removed?
> 
> 
> M


You could (should) clean the internal burner and internal housing. Adviseable is to renew the glowplug when you clean the unit as this unit fails often. Use new gaskets or use locktite 5920.

This video might help you a bit:

http://youtu.be/bYoW62p3wpo

Cheers,

Wouter

Ps: 8h work is based on a V6-TDI due to the intercooler which is in the way, on other models it could be less. 3h seems indeed a bargain to me and i have serious doubts about it as the bumper has to come off refering to the repair manual.


----------



## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

One other question for those who have delved into the Webasto. Would it be possible to access the connector for the blower without removing the whole unit from the car, so that one could apply 12V and confirm the diagnosis? I have read on other fora that webasto circuit board faults can sometimes be reported as component faults.


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

V10Mike said:


> One other question for those who have delved into the Webasto. Would it be possible to access the connector for the blower without removing the whole unit from the car, so that one could apply 12V and confirm the diagnosis? I have read on other fora that webasto circuit board faults can sometimes be reported as component faults.


See #154 and more in this thread, its tight, very very tight, but not impossible.


----------



## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

wouterjansen60 said:


> See #154 and more in this thread, its tight, very very tight, but not impossible.


Thanks Wouter. This obviously requires removal of the wheelarch liner, but would it also require the front bumper to come off?

Mike


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

V10Mike said:


> Thanks Wouter. This obviously requires removal of the wheelarch liner, but would it also require the front bumper to come off?
> 
> Mike



Hi Mike,

Yes, the pic. at #154 is taken while front bumper is off, so i guess there is no other way. Or you could try to loosen the webasto and wiggle a bit in order to reach the connectors, but again i advise you to remove the bumper, not difficult but a bit time consuming.
Cheers,
Wouter


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

n968412L said:


> AAggghhh - it's gone cold again and heater has bust!
> 
> I now get this recurring fault: 01414 Combustion Air Blower (V6) 007 Short to ground.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the depressing advice re this. Does anyone know what the fault "short to ground" actually means? Clearly, in English, it means an earth fault... or a short to the chassis... but from what? If it was a short from any load carrying conductor, I'd expect it to blow a fuse?

Grateful for any ideas on this.

Regards

M


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> Does anyone know what the fault "short to ground" actually means?


It means that the component is using too much power. In "regular" car electronics it would simply blow the fuse, but not in modern cars...  The circuitry in charge of driving the blower motor has detected too high current and so it switches off the power supply and triggers a fault. 

Quite often this kind of fault code (when it comes to motors) is either because something has jammed the motor mechanically or the motor coils or other internal components have "fried". The blower motor is - well - blowing combustion air which is drawn in from the engine bay through a small air filter. It is possible that the filter has failed and let in debris. But my guess is a fried motor.

The motor IS available separately as are most of the other Webasto internal components! The blower motor is VW part 7L0963031A and it should cost about 150 euros. I wonder why your dealer has told otherwise. 

VW is actually special in the sense that even the glow plugs are sold separately. If you ask Webasto service, they only sell the whole burner assys!

Jouko


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Here's another odd thing about my problem... or I should say problems!

the note I wrote above about the failure was on my GP1 that has just come back from VW having had its door corrosion attended to.

Picked up my GP0 this morning as it too now has lovely repaired doors and flush fitting trims etc. All very nice. And a locked out parking heater!

Not scanned it yet.. job for the weekend... but is this just a mad coincidence... or is there something that bodyworkers can do that the Webasto doesn't like??

Anyhow.. it's still cold and although I have a fleet redundant with parking heaters... they're both buggered....

I'll have to stay in bed in the mornings instead!

M


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike,

Hopefully they just ran the battery down with the doors open...

Chris


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> Hopefully they just ran the battery down with the doors open...
> 
> Chris


Chris - what wisdom! And what lack of imagination on my part. Yes - it looks like that might be the case. But can't tell until tomorrow- engine too warm for heater to run now.

Pretty sure then when I've had flattish battery in the past it has stopped working but not locked out... there was an error (forgot to record it) but I don't think locked out as it cleared just by clearing the fault code.. whereas lockout requires you to log into the controller with the security setting to reset it... I think.

I'll update tomorrow.


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

n968412L said:


> And what lack of imagination on my part.


Yes - complete lack of imagination on my part. Two weeks in a VW body shop had run the convenience battery to a point where intervention management had kicked in and many controllers were complaining of low voltage. Reset those that I can (need to post somewhere else about the difficulties of doing this) - but at least the parking heater on the GP0 is serviceable... I'll have to look into the GP1 a bit more.. .but it's back with VW having its door mirrors replaced...


----------



## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

My dealer has now confirmed that he can obtain the blower fan on its own, but apparently the technician now seems uncertain whether this is the only fault. I was looking on Allegro.Pl, as previously recommended by Jouko, and there are two complete Phaeton Webasto units on sale, both for 500 Zlotys, about £110. One is part number 3D0815005AK, listed as being removed from a V10, the other is 3D0815005AD, just listed as diesel Phaeton. Does anyone know if there is any difference, or would either fit? I am inclined to buy one of these, strip and clean it and then get the dealer to replace mine complete.

Mike


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike,

Of only slight use to you, here are some part numbers you may be offered:

Part nos. 3D0 815 005 suffix AA/AD/AK are all now replaced by part 3D0 815 007N ('auxiliary heater - diesel').

Part nos. 3D0 815 005 suffix AE/AF/AG are all now replaced by part 3D0 815 007M ('auxiliary heater - petrol').

Part nos. 3D0 815 005 suffix AP/AR are both now replaced by part 3D0 815 007 R, and part no. 3D0 815 005 suffix AQ is replaced by part 3D0 815 007S, whatever car they fit, probably not Phaeton (unknown fuel).

There are no other suffix letters listed.

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Mike, do keep in mind that the service interval for a heater is somewhere around 5 years, tops. This means cleaning up the burner housing and replacing the glow plug, at minimum. Do not buy a 8-year old heater and just put it into the car without overhauling it first. (and now that I read your post again, this is exactly what you were planning to do, good! ) 

Another thing is, if you have no reason to suspect there is something wrong the the Webasto controller aka "brain" (which is very much Phaeton specific in this case), note that the heater mechanicals are fairly interchangeable between different Thermo Top Z/C models. I do recall that the Phaeton variant's exhaust flange is non-standard but it is not a big issue. It might be cheaper/more sensible to buy a unused Thermo Top heater from ebay. Those often go for 200-250 euros. You would then use it for parts and would get to replace the blower, burner and glow plug all at once. This assumes that your current control unit is fine.

Jouko


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

jkuisma said:


> do keep in mind that the service interval for a heater is somewhere around 5 years, tops.


Presumably that might be extended where the climate is warmer and the duty less... although I note that five years is not an unreasonable time to maintain something like that. As mine's failed the same as Mike.. I'll see how he gets on. Mine is just short of five years old!

Thanks

Mike


----------



## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

jkuisma said:


> Mike, do keep in mind that the service interval for a heater is somewhere around 5 years, tops. This means cleaning up the burner housing and replacing the glow plug, at minimum. Do not buy a 8-year old heater and just put it into the car without overhauling it first. (and now that I read your post again, this is exactly what you were planning to do, good! )
> 
> Another thing is, if you have no reason to suspect there is something wrong the the Webasto controller aka "brain" (which is very much Phaeton specific in this case), note that the heater mechanicals are fairly interchangeable between different Thermo Top Z/C models. I do recall that the Phaeton variant's exhaust flange is non-standard but it is not a big issue. It might be cheaper/more sensible to buy a unused Thermo Top heater from ebay. Those often go for 200-250 euros. You would then use it for parts and would get to replace the blower, burner and glow plug all at once. This assumes that your current control unit is fine.
> 
> Jouko


You were quite right, my Polish heater arrived and, although I am sure it was working when it was removed, the amount of salt and corrosion meant almost every bolt sheared whilst dismantling it. The Webasto is obviously not designed for overhaul -the self threading bolts are particularly evil, having hardened threads but cores which appear to be made of the metallic equivalent of cheese! 

So I have bought a complete new heater on Ebay.de, and am transferring over the Phaeton specific parts. I could have taken them from the old heater on my car, but I wanted a complete unit available to swap in to minimise time in the workshop.

When I get my old heater off, hopefully I can service it and transfer the working fan off the Polish heater, giving me a complete unit to sell to recover some cost.

Mike


----------



## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

I have now had my parking heater replaced with the rebuilt unit, and all is working correctly again. It was fitted by a local independant VW-Audi specialist, VAGTech in Milton Keynes, and I was very impressed by their service. They quoted according to the (incorrect) VW repair manual, three hours labour, but it ended up taking all day when they had to remove the front bumper cover, intercooler etc. Notwithstanding this they stuck to their original quote.

On stripping the old unit, I found that the combustion air fan, which was showing on VCDS as short to ground, was in fact working correctly. The fault would appear to be on the control board, where water ingress has caused a short circuit between the leads of the large power transistor at the back of the board -one terminal was almost completely eaten away, see below:










The underside of the board was not in good condition either:










The seal in the corner had failed completely -I think the Phaeton environment is beyond its design specification:










I'm glad I used plenty of silicon grease when I reassembled the replacement unit!

Here is a picture inside the combustor, showing the carbon deposits that build up:










They are quite light and soft, and easy to brush out -this is 100,000 miles worth.

I'm now left with a range of spare parts for the Webasto, but not enough to build a complete working unit -if anyone needs anything specific, please drop me a PM, otherwise I will stick them on Ebay.

Mike


----------



## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

Hi Mike,

Indeed 8h work is to be expected as many of us where there before with the same figures. This is particulary applicable for V6 TDI... Good job, usually the NTC ( under the metal plate) is the common culprit for failures even as the glowpin.

Cheers,
Wouter


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

V10Mike said:


> I'm now left with a range of spare parts for the Webasto, but not enough to build a complete working unit -if anyone needs anything specific, please drop me a PM, otherwise I will stick them on Ebay.
> 
> Mike


Hi Mike - I think you should hang on a bit and I'll see if I need some of them! My V6 is throwing the blower error code. I'm going to have a look at it next month... 

I think I owe you something anyway... I think you're the Mike who let me drive his V10 a couple of years ago... which caused me to buy one... and therefore gave me a spare parking heater so that I wasn't bereft as I would have been this winter if I'd only had the V6....

Regards

Mike


----------



## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

n968412L said:


> Hi Mike - I think you should hang on a bit and I'll see if I need some of them! My V6 is throwing the blower error code. I'm going to have a look at it next month...
> 
> I think I owe you something anyway... I think you're the Mike who let me drive his V10 a couple of years ago... which caused me to buy one... and therefore gave me a spare parking heater so that I wasn't bereft as I would have been this winter if I'd only had the V6....
> 
> ...


Hopefully yours really is the blower -I've got two of those! I expect the board could be repaired fairly easily, but I don't have the facility to test it off the car. 

Glad you're enjoying the V10!

Mike


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

I thought I'd replied to this thread to close down my experience. Maybe I posted about this somewhere else.

The fault on my V6 parking heater was exactly the same as V10Mike's - the control board was corroded and looked just like Mike's did. VW stumped up 70% of the replacement cost - which was good for something that was 5 years old... although it is clearly a bit of a design fault that allows this to happen.

Anyhow I've been lovely and warm this winter in both Phaetons... athough the weather hasn't really stressed us temperature wise yet...

Regards

M


----------



## ThomaSX (Apr 17, 2014)

Hello All,

I have a 3.0 TDI MY2005 with Webasto installed as supplementary. I am trying to get the timer screen activated, but had no luck so far. Can someone please help what needs to be done?
I have the Control Head (07) coded to 0400405, so it knows there is a Webasto, but still doesn't display the Timer screen. Going to Aux Heat (18) I could manually start the Webasto, so I know it works, but that's it.
Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Tamas


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Thomas:

Other than this discussion, there is not a lot of information here in our forum about the parking heater.

But - there is a great deal of information about the parking heater, including how to enable independent operation (what you are trying to do) at the German language Phaeton forum. The link for that forum is: http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/vw-phaeton-b224.html You will have to go digging and use the search function... if I recall correctly, most of the talk about that subject took place about 5 to 8 years ago.

Michael


----------



## ThomaSX (Apr 17, 2014)

Thank you guys for the PMs, this is an awesome forum. I can now confirm that the procedure works on the MY2005 as well.
I couldn't be happier!


----------



## Phaeton_owner (May 17, 2014)

*Supplemental heating start temperature*

I have Phaeton MY 2007 3.0 diesel, since I bought it never thought that it has any kind (supplemental or parking) of auxiliary heating device. When I did a WAG scan I discovered that there is installed a supplemental heater but it doesn't work because of the glow plug fault. Last weekend I took out the webasto device (Thermo Top C). cleaned burner housing and the glow plug, friend of mine made some kind of repair job in control board ("brains" of the webasto). We did the webasto device test by connecting it to the diagnostic test board. Test showed that there are no any faults and device it self works well. I put the webasto device back to my car, did a WAG scan, which showed no any kind faults. Temperature outdoor in my country now is ~16-19 degrees of celsius, what means that I can't test the webasto device in natural conditions. 
My question is - what should be the outdoor temperature, that the supplemental heating will start to operate? 
Thanks for any answers.

Mindaugas

Editional information
According to Self Study Program situation with the supplementary heating is as follows:
The supplementary heater
(diesel engines)
Start phase
When the engine is started, the heater is made
ready.
When the coolant temperature is below 60 °C,
ambient temperature is below + 5 °C and the
control unit has received an engine speed signal,
start is initiated.


----------



## ThomaSX (Apr 17, 2014)

Phaeton_owner said:


> My question is - what should be the outdoor temperature, that the supplemental heating will start to operate?
> Thanks for any answers.
> 
> Mindaugas


You should be able to force-start the heater using Vag-com in Basic Settings regardless of the ambient temperature.


----------



## Phaeton_owner (May 17, 2014)

ThomaSX said:


> You should be able to force-start the heater using Vag-com in Basic Settings regardless of the ambient temperature.


Could you please exactly say how could I do the force-start the heater using Vag-com in Basic Settings? Thanks.
Or maybe anyone else has any other ideas according to my question?

Mindaugas


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Mindaugas,
I am able to start mine, using the dashboard control panel settings, with 14-15ºC outside temperature, provided the engine has not been running overnight. However it will only last for a few minutes.
In any case you will be able to hear the fuel pump clicking, the burner fan blowing and also you should be able to see some smoke coming out from the heater.
I hope it helps.

Gabriel


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

I don't know if you can force start it with VCDS... but unless you know the trick to fool the controller about the bypass valve, won't it lockout?

I think the safest way to test it is as per Gabriel's suggestion - but to do this you will have to have repgorammed the controller to believe it has a parking heater - as explained earlier in this thread, and told it to ignore the bypass valve position (since you won't have a bypass valve) - then you can start it at will (provided coolant and ambient and fuel level and battery charge allow it) from the internal central control screen.

Regards

Mike


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re-programming*

If anyone wants the login code and procedure for making a parking heater out of an aux heater, drop me a PM...

/per


----------



## portal1986 (Jul 24, 2014)

Unfortunately my Webasto has stopped working properly for a few days. You can not turn it on with the remote control or from the cab. Opens only the middle ventilation and all that. Only the engine and instantaneous firing operation can be fired Webasto remote control and main unit. You can also just turn off. 

All began from that one evening when I turned on the remote Webasto, after 20 minutes I went out, I opened the car and the car went out of smoke. The smell of exhaust so I thought it was from Webasto. Since then the problem is. 

I would add that because of a clogged drain in the right pillar, poured the water into the car while considerable rainfall. Does it have something to do with each other?

Thanks for help


----------



## cata1569 (Jun 25, 2012)

Hello to everyone!

I had my parking heater enabled 2 years ago and it worked fine until this winter. 
Now the screen to select the heater appears OK but when I press the button to select it I don't hear any noise 
but neither the yellow selection light appears nor does the green parking heater symbol on the dashboard light up.
I tried:

”Open driver footwell fuse panel (details in this topic) and find 20A fuse SB16. That's 16th fuse in top line of fuses.
-- Unlock instruction --
1. Disconnect fuse for 3 sec
2. Connect fuse then immediately press on button on remote control or on timer unit (I use remote control)
3. wait 3 seconds and disconnect fuse
4. wait 3 seconds and connect fuse”

Nothing happened.
Enough fuel, temperature is -2C, tips ? except VCDS,I don't have.






Happy New Year!
cata


----------



## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

You really need VCDS to fix that one. Your heater has most likely locked up.

/per


----------



## cata1569 (Jun 25, 2012)

perfrej said:


> You really need VCDS to fix that one. Your heater has most likely locked up.
> 
> /per


I hope so.
Thank you.

cata


----------



## W8CMP (Mar 20, 2004)

Is it easy to unlock with VCDS ?

Mine is currently locked up according to my latest VCDS scan.

Chris


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

W8CMP said:


> Is it easy to unlock with VCDS ?
> 
> Mine is currently locked up according to my latest VCS scan.
> 
> Chris


Possible.. yes. A little tricky. Unfortunately I'm not at home right now with access to my data... you need to put a value in one of the fields and then reset the error codes.. but I can't remember what exactly. Maybe someone will post it before I get home. It might also be in the thread somewhere... have a read.

My experience is that lockout occurs when you activate by fooling it about the valve that's not there... or when there's something wrong with the controller... ie water ingress into the control unit on the heater. I don't think it normally locks up for a no good reason...

M


----------



## W8CMP (Mar 20, 2004)

It's in for a service on Friday, so I'll add it to their list of things to look at...might need a new heater under my extended warranty.


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

W8CMP said:


> It's in for a service on Friday, so I'll add it to their list of things to look at...might need a new heater under my extended warranty.


Good luck with that. When my V6 auxiliary heater packed up two years ago due to water ingress into its controller, it took me a week to get the VW technicians to accept that it was part of the car and not an aftermarket fitting.....

And because enabling the auxiliary heater as parking heater is not a factory approved tweak. .... they are (a) ignorant of it and (b) don't believe it.....

Got there eventually.. but I think I had to show them pictures of V10Mike's unit (in this thread) to get them to treat it seriously....


----------



## Phaeton_owner (May 17, 2014)

*To enable timer-controlled Auxiliary Heating*



Paximus said:


> I just enabled the timer-controlled Auxiliary Heating for coolant and interior heater using the info in this thread.
> 
> Many thanks to Per, Jouko and everyone else who sorted this out!
> 
> Chris


Hi Chris, could you tell what are exactly procedures "step by step" to enable timer-controlled Auxiliary Heating? In my car I have supplemental heating option. Thank you in advance. 

MIndaugas


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

PM sent.

Chris


----------



## Phaeton_owner (May 17, 2014)

*Hallelujah!	Finally I have parking heater!!!*

Thank you to all of you guys, especially to Chris and Per for their PM's and tips. This forum is invaluable treasure, like a cornucopia. Every time I'm wondering how great is this forum!!! I did all procedures i was told to do and vualia... Now I have parking heater instead supplemental heating. I already tested, so far it works perfectly :thumbup:

Mindaugas


----------



## doz (Jul 29, 2013)

Guys, Has anybody gotva picturevof the water redirection valve fitted and where the wiring goes to? My stand alone is working great guns and I know it can work perfectly well without it but I thought I might have a go at fitting it to see what difference it makes


----------



## shamash (Jan 27, 2014)

Hello, could anyone PM me with istructions on how to unlock/enable aux heater ??

Thanks in advance


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

shamash said:


> Hello, could anyone PM me with istructions on how to unlock/enable aux heater ??
> 
> Thanks in advance


PM'd. Let us know a bit about you.. where are you etc, and your name.
Regards
Mike


----------



## Widescreen111 (Sep 19, 2015)

*Aux heater or parking heater ?*



perfrej said:


> If anyone wants the login code and procedure for making a parking heater out of an aux heater, drop me a PM...
> 
> /per


Hi Per,

I just got me 2009MY Phaeton 3,0 TDI and I did VCDS scan today with following for Adress 18:

ddress 18: Aux. Heat Labels: 3D0-815-005.lbl
Part No: 3D0 815 005 AN
Component: J737__Standheizung 4404 
Revision: 00084000 Serial number: 09018920B00000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 69D3CC004062FD6

No fault code found.

When I trying to acces module 18 it requires some kind of login code /workshop/servcie code, i can´t remember exactly.
Anyhow it won´t let me in.
Could You tell from above info if my car has heater that I can activate for parking heater and what is the code to get in to the module ?

Many thanks in advance !
Wide


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Hoping not to steal Per's thunder:

Security code PM'd.

Adapt channel 09 to value 2
Adapt channel 04 to value 0
If the heater locks up (after too many start-failure attempts) adapt channel 03 to value 1 then clear the fault codes.


----------



## Widescreen111 (Sep 19, 2015)

*Aux heater or parking heater*



robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Hoping not to steal Per's thunder:
> 
> Security code PM'd.
> 
> ...



Thanks Robbie and Per and all the others who are so willingly giving out information !

Today I managed, as it seems now at least, to adapt these channels 09 and 04 with above info correctly, and voilà new entries showed up on the "car" menu for auxiliary heating.
I was so exited to test right away and after rebooting the RNS 810 I selected auxiliary heating with direct start button on the menu and ventilation started with adjusted temp. settings to blow in warm air (the engine was still hot after a short trip for 1 hour ago)
It even started the small display clusters for ventilation temperature, as it was shut off while I was making the magic with VCDS.
I dared not the try anything more and just stopped the heating with button and it responded correctly.
What I did not observed was if the heating engine was running or not.

Questions:

If started manually, and if the engine is still hot enough, the auxillary heating engine wont then start only ventilation will start blowing, is that correct ?
Can I observe/see when the auxiliary heating engine is running, and where/how ?
Is there anything to be aware of when running the heating automatic started without observation or is everything fully controlled/secured for eventual faulty situations ?

BR
Wide


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi Wide

Answers:
1 - I think so. The firing sequence is determined by a number of things, including the coolant temperature. I think if the coolant is above a certain temperature, the heater cuts out - I'm not sure if it continues to pump and to blow air in those conditions... I'll have to try it out this winter! See if you can track down the heater self study programme - or PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

2 - there should be a green symbol in the speedometer. it is a fairly obvious heating symbol with three wavy green lines signifying heat.... and of course the yellow indicator in the central unit. If the parking heat has been started manually or on the timer both of these are lit. If the heater runs automatically as an auxiliary heater, then neither light up.

3 - I think the only routine problem is that the heater will stop working if the diesel in the tank is too low. Some people say that it then locks out - but that has never happened to me. It certainly sets and error flag, but this can be cleared with VCDS, but mine resets itself when the tank is filled. Oh, and weak LH battery will stop it working too.

good luck.
M


----------



## AndySwede (Apr 22, 2013)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Hoping not to steal Per's thunder:
> 
> Security code PM'd.
> 
> ...


Why so shady about the procedure and security code but you still share? I always share my knowhow, thats what the forums are for.

Im trying to help a friend with a 2008 TDI Touareg activating the parking heater. Would you mind sharing this? 


//Andyswede


----------



## AndySwede (Apr 22, 2013)

Turned out the car was imported from Estonia and its origin unknown. No factory fitted heater at all.


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

AndySwede said:


> Why so shady about the procedure and security code but you still share? I always share my knowhow, thats what the forums are for.
> 
> Im trying to help a friend with a 2008 TDI Touareg activating the parking heater. Would you mind sharing this?
> 
> ...


Hi Andy, 
I clearly gave the procedure openly, but I was given the security code myself in confidence so I do the same. I presume this is because Ross-Tech spent time and effort getting the security code in the first place and don't really want it banded about too much.


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Hi Andy,
> I clearly gave the procedure openly, but I was given the security code myself in confidence so I do the same. I presume this is because Ross-Tech spent time and effort getting the security code in the first place and don't really want it banded about too much.


I think our circumspection relates to allegedly VW's own circumspection about releasing information that relates to controlling a source of open ignition of diesel..... I'm not sure why this is a particular concern... but it does sound like something they might want not to be commonly done for product liability and litigation reasons. I think most of us are happy to push the information around forum members... but in a way that means it's not susceptible to a much wider promulgation.

Regards

M


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi All - I now have MY2014 V6 TDI with RNS810 control unit.

My previous Phaetons had earlier control units. Is the procedure exactly the same? Same adaptations? Wide says "after rebooting the RNS810"... should I know how to do this?

Any experience from intrepid owners of GP3s gratefully received.

Thanks

Mike


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike,

The car sounds nice. Is that instead of the V10? Hope all's well.

Chris


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> The car sounds nice. Is that instead of the V10? Hope all's well.
> 
> Chris


Hi Chris - all is very well thanks.

No... the V6 that I intended to keep for ever has gone... I was tempted by a late model that is reasonably specified... so probably the last chance to own one. The V6 was in great condition... but was poverty spec....apart from the TV and electric boot. PEx for the new one. Was advertized on Autotrader for a couple of weeks.. but has disappeared now... so probably sold. Maybe the new owner will pop up here....

V10 is going to have go though.... I'm just not doing the miles any more to justify two... and the V10 does need to be driven more than I have been doing. But that's going to be a wrench... it's in lovely condition and drives like a (wet) dream.....

Hope all with well with you and your turbos....

Regards

Mike


----------



## Widescreen111 (Sep 19, 2015)

n968412L said:


> Hi All - I now have MY2014 V6 TDI with RNS810 control unit.
> 
> My previous Phaetons had earlier control units. Is the procedure exactly the same? Same adaptations? Wide says "after rebooting the RNS810"... should I know how to do this?
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,

I was actually restarting the unit like this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dOTKd7_QFU

BR
Wide


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

n968412L said:


> Hi All - I now have MY2014 V6 TDI with RNS810 control unit.
> 
> My previous Phaetons had earlier control units. Is the procedure exactly the same? Same adaptations? Wide says "after rebooting the RNS810"... should I know how to do this?
> 
> ...


Yes, adaptations are the same. The heating menu comes up in the Setup-> Car menu. There is also the "secret" menu obtained by holding down the "Setup" key for about 5s. If I hold it down even longer (~10s) I get an "extra secret" menu, but I'm not sure if that is standard or if I enabled it in VCDS. If you don't have this then I can dig out how I think I might have enabled it.

Have fun. 
Robbie


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

*Trying to enable the heater.*

Hi guys.
My name is Göran Wik, called Wiken.
I live in Sweden and have owned my Phaeton for about a month.
My 2007 is a strange build I think, some is ROW some is NAR according to the build strip.

I'm trying to get the heater to or show up.
In the avionics compartment I have a T90 installed, I can't say if it's a retrofit, but I don't think so.
I get the feeling that previous owners have had a very vague idea of what car they owned.

So I have the same problem as many in this thread:
Timer not showing up in J523.
Can't reach Module 18 using VCDS.
In module 07 my coding was 0000000. ?
I used VCDS to set it to 050427, to mirror what is installed in my Phaeton.
My TPMS has been turned of by an earlier user, I guess all transmitter batteries are out. 

I have compiled all info in this thread to do a complete work on the Webasto.

Can I humbly as for the security code to Module 18, if I get it to work, and the instructions how enable the parking heater?

I'm convinced that it's configured as a parking heater due to the T90 in my boot.

Thank you for a superb forum, and I'm impressed by your knowledge and dedication.
Me, I'm working up to it.
Best regards
Wiken 
Picture of the T90


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi guys.
> My name is Göran Wik, called Wiken.
> I live in Sweden and have owned my Phaeton for about a month.
> My 2007 is a strange build I think, some is ROW some is NAR according to the build strip.
> ...


PM sent


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

n968412L said:


> PM sent


Hi Guys.
I'm a little worried as a newbie, I bought my P 5 weeks ago, and now I'm trying to get the Aux Heater to start.
But using the VCDS I can't connect to controller 18, I get unable to connect.

It is mounted behind the left side head-light, I have checked.
I also have a T90 installed in the avionics compartment in the boot.
I do lack the key fob, that I have ordered from Ebay.
I don't have any timer in the J523.
The fuse was broken to it, and I tried with replacing that one (risky...).

Do any of you pro's, now how to get it to response?
Could it be that it's completely broken?

Best regards
Wiken


----------



## AndySwede (Apr 22, 2013)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi Guys.
> I'm a little worried as a newbie, I bought my P 5 weeks ago, and now I'm trying to get the Aux Heater to start.
> But using the VCDS I can't connect to controller 18, I get unable to connect.
> 
> ...


I had the same problem connecting to #18 in that car. Never checked the fuse though. I guess the next step is to change the module or the heater electronics.

Sorry for more OT - Regarding the TPMS, previous (?) owner wanted me to turn it off because he had changed to wheels without sensors but as I remember the module wouldn´t accept the new coding and set it to all zeros. Never seen that happen before on any other car.

If you´re planning to lower or calibrate the air suspention - prepare yourself with patience and beer. That module is really really grumpy. I spent many hours just to calibrate the factory settings.
I lowered a 2006 Touareg yesterday, as I know they share the same components, it was done within minutes!

Overall a car in good shape but the grumpiest car I ever worked on.


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi Wicken - I suspect that the heater has suffered the failures of its controls that both I and V10 Mike suffered - take a look at his post 251 in this thread. Now this is on the Webasto unit itself - so I don't know if that would stop dialogue with the Controller 18 - it didn't in our cases. But I feel it's a strong possibility.

Until you can change the settings in Controller 18 you will not see the timer in J523.

I hope others might have other ideas....

Good luck.

M


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

AndySwede said:


> I had the same problem connecting to #18 in that car. Never checked the fuse though. I guess the next step is to change the module or the heater electronics.
> 
> Sorry for more OT - Regarding the TPMS, previous (?) owner wanted me to turn it off because he had changed to wheels without sensors but as I remember the module wouldn´t accept the new coding and set it to all zeros. Never seen that happen before on any other car.
> 
> ...


Hi.
I changed the coding yesterday, had a little trouble, but did it as PanEuropean said, used patience and I could save the new code into controller 07 according to the equipment in the car.
Put the fuse into the TPMS, and it started to work.
Changed the coding to that controller to enable turn off using the J523. Worked good.
So now I know that the TPMS works, needs new sensors or present sensors.

I guess I have to buy beer....
\Wiken


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

n968412L said:


> Hi Wicken - I suspect that the heater has suffered the failures of its controls that both I and V10 Mike suffered - take a look at his post 251 in this thread. Now this is on the Webasto unit itself - so I don't know if that would stop dialogue with the Controller 18 - it didn't in our cases. But I feel it's a strong possibility.
> 
> Until you can change the settings in Controller 18 you will not see the timer in J523.
> 
> ...


Ok, Thanks M.
That puts me into the right direction.
Need to talk to the dealer as well, to see if this is covered by the insurance i payed for.
The insurance covers all mechanical like engine, gearbox basically the whole drive-line.

I guess it can be a engine-issue that the aux heater don't work, that is direct dependent on the exhaust fumes on a diesel.

Again, thanks M for your answer.
\Wiken


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

AndySwede said:


> I had the same problem connecting to #18 in that car. Never checked the fuse though. I guess the next step is to change the module or the heater electronics.
> 
> Sorry for more OT - Regarding the TPMS, previous (?) owner wanted me to turn it off because he had changed to wheels without sensors but as I remember the module wouldn´t accept the new coding and set it to all zeros. Never seen that happen before on any other car.
> 
> ...


Hi again.
I'm in a learning curve, and trying all stuff in the car.
My insurance might cover the heater as it's going to change the fume outlets values.
We have 2 months to get back after a purchase from a dealer.
So I need to cover some ground before I contact the dealer about the issue.

Thanks for your input, it's very good and important.
\Wiken


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

gwiken65 said:


> I guess it can be a engine-issue that the aux heater don't work, that is direct dependent on the exhaust fumes on a diesel.


Not sure. There's no link between the engine, or its exhaust, and the heater. The heater is plumbed into the engine cooling system, but it is separate from the engine exhaust.... or have I misunderstood?


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

n968412L said:


> Not sure. There's no link between the engine, or its exhaust, and the heater. The heater is plumbed into the engine cooling system, but it is separate from the engine exhaust.... or have I misunderstood?


That's true.
My thinking is that an engine that's not heating up fast enought, makes the particle filter not working properly and causing a higher outlet of bad particles. 

Maybe I have misunderstod the aux heater purpose. 
Wiken 😁 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

gwiken65 said:


> That's true.
> My thinking is that an engine that's not heating up fast enought, makes the particle filter not working properly and causing a higher outlet of bad particles.
> 
> Maybe I have misunderstod the aux heater purpose.
> ...


Possibly. The auxiliary heater's only purpose is to provide additional heating to the cabin. In cold ambient temperatures, the engine itself does not produce enough waste heat to adequately keep the cabin at the set temperature; hence the auxiliary heater is fitted to run automatically, I think when ambient temperature is <5°C. 

If you can find the self-study programme for the heater that might help - or PM your email and I'll send you a copy.

Regards

M


----------



## AndySwede (Apr 22, 2013)

n968412L said:


> Not sure. There's no link between the engine, or its exhaust, and the heater. The heater is plumbed into the engine cooling system, but it is separate from the engine exhaust.... or have I misunderstood?


True about the exhaust. But... some vehicles have electric valve is fitted (N2XX, sorry for the lack of information I dont have my notes at work) that can be coded to open to heat the engine coolant system. In that case you will heat up the engine and get less soot in the filter wich is a problem with cold start and short trips. 

Look in #8 and channel 21 and set 0 to 1. This works in many Q7 4L and can be set in the (Audi) MMI (no sw setting in the Phaeton) after coding but as I understand this valve is not fitted depending on MY and region the car was made for. Your car seems to be a kind of mash up, have you called Transportstyrelsen to get it´s origin sorted out? As I heard from a previous owner it was most likely imported to Sweden from Balticum.

Strange though that your heater and control module don´t throw any code.


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

AndySwede said:


> True about the exhaust. But... some vehicles have electric valve is fitted (N2XX, sorry for the lack of information I dont have my notes at work) that can be coded to open to heat the engine coolant system. In that case you will heat up the engine and get less soot in the filter wich is a problem with cold start and short trips.
> 
> Look in #8 and channel 21 and set 0 to 1. This works in many Q7 4L and can be set in the (Audi) MMI (no sw setting in the Phaeton) after coding but as I understand this valve is not fitted depending on MY and region the car was made for. Your car seems to be a kind of mash up, have you called Transportstyrelsen to get it´s origin sorted out? As I heard from a previous owner it was most likely imported to Sweden from Balticum.
> 
> Strange though that your heater and control module don´t throw any code.


How interesting. 
I have a carfax on the car, and it came from Germany through Estonia. 
It's true about the mashup, some are NAR and some are ROW.
I will look into #8.

The best about all this is that I'm learning.  
Wiken 😊 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


----------



## AndySwede (Apr 22, 2013)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi again.
> I'm in a learning curve, and trying all stuff in the car.
> My insurance might cover the heater as it's going to change the fume outlets values.
> We have 2 months to get back after a purchase from a dealer.
> ...


To try this on the dealer can be kind of tricky since they most likely are no mechanics and certainly haven´t got a clou about what you show them in VCDS. I guess that the best you can do is to show them that you actually have the heater installed and it´s not working. For them to understand this you/they should take the car to a heater specialist to confirm. 

My skills are a bit limited in this matter, I don´t see why you don´t have the timer in your nav because that info should come from #8 and not #18 or the heater.


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

AndySwede said:


> To try this on the dealer can be kind of tricky since they most likely are no mechanics and certainly haven´t got a clou about what you show them in VCDS. I guess that the best you can do is to show them that you actually have the heater installed and it´s not working. For them to understand this you/they should take the car to a heater specialist to confirm.
> 
> My skills are a bit limited in this matter, I don´t see why you don´t have the timer in your nav because that info should come from #8 and not #18 or the heater.


Again, how interesting. 
Well, I will certanly try your suggestions.
And give it a good thought regarding my dealer, you have very good point.
Thanks 
Wiken 😊 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


----------



## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

Here is the self study on the supplemental heater fitted to diesel engines and the auxiliary heater fitted to petrol engines:
http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_280_d1.pdf

Also there is the residual heat function to keep the cabin warm when you exit for several minutes and don't want to leave the engine running


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Phat One said:


> Here is the self study on the supplemental heater fitted to diesel engines and the auxiliary heater fitted to petrol engines:
> http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_280_d1.pdf


👍 cool.
I have been reading so much about the Phaeton during the last 5 weeks, I'm almost tired of letters. But it's fun and I love the car. 
Thanks very much. 
Wiken 😁 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


----------



## AlZu (Feb 15, 2016)

Hi ,
I’m own v10 (03) , and since outside is start to be cold , instructions how to unlock/enable aux heater .
Could someone PM to me ? Thx. 
and may be question, is it possible at all, my VIN is WVWZZZ3Dz48007877


----------



## AlZu (Feb 15, 2016)

Hi ,
I’m own v10 (03) , and since outside is start to be cold , instructions how to unlock/enable aux heater .
Could someone PM to me ? Thx. 
and may be question, is it possible at all, my VIN is WVWZZZ3Dz48007877


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Al,

Welcome to the forum!

Here are the instructions. They were provided to us privately from the factory by well-respected Phaeton owner and forum member perfrej, who sadly passed away not long ago. In view of this, and the fact that the Transparent Factory has now dispersed its gurus and its technical documentation, it seems that is reasonable to post the procedure.

Regards,
Chris




You need VAG Com (VCDS) to do it. You need to access the heater module, enter "Adaption" and log in with code 22106.
Once logged in, look at channel 9. You should have a 1 there indicating diesel augmentation. Change it to 2 and you have parking heater. If you stop there the heater will lock up if you turn it on, so do not try that. You can verify that it worked by checking the AC functions on the main display, where you will find the timer and manual start of the parking heater.
Now, to tell it that you do not have a fluid separation valve, you need to adapt channel 4 to a 0. If you do not do this, the heater will start the fans, get an error from the solenoid (that you do not have) and run for about a minute. Try this three times and the heater will lock! If channel 4 contains 0, the heater knows that there is no valve fitted and won't try to close it, and hence will not be getting an error trying.
So, there it is, channel 9: change from 1 to 2, channel 4: change from 1 to 0. Voila!
You will have basic functions like timer and manual start but no remote fob to turn it on from your office and so.

Per


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Paximus said:


> Hi Al,
> 
> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> ...


Hi.
I have a T90 installed, is there an instruction for this. My parking heater is unresponsive from VCDS, and I plan to replace the electronics, that I have purchased. 
Wiken 😁 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


----------



## whisper (Sep 2, 2009)

*Webasto Locked up?*

Hi,

I have been for many years the very happy owner of a 2007 5.0 TDI, with factory Webasto plus remote fob, and with help of this forum have been able to do most maintenance and cope with all problems. With one exception, however. My aux heater stopped working some months ago, I did the (time consuming) repair as found on the forum. Cleaning, new glowplug, etc. 
Using the Ross-tech VCDS I can start and stop all functions of the heater one by one. But it seems the heater is locked up. I tried the trick of removing fuse, etc., I asked support of the company that supplied me the parts for the Webasto, but to no avail.

When I use the remote fob to start the car the indicator lights up in the display, the car blower starts up, but after some time switches off. There are no ticks heard from the fuel pump (on the left side near rear wheel)

Anyone have any idea what I can do to make the Phaeton unlock in order to start the Webasto again? (without having to go to the Volkswagen dealership, that is)

thanks,
whisper


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi Whisper - how frustrating.

When my V6 locked out (and my V10 behaved the same way as far as I can tell) I followed this advice:

Error correction - 1 in channel 3, then clear the codes

ie adapt 1 in channel three, save it, and then clear the fault codes. I think you need to be logged in to the controller with the password that Chris Paximus posted two posts up.

Good luck.

M


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Hi Whisper,
When my aux heater failed to start I found it was due to a dead metering pump. It had very similar symptoms to your problem i.e. It would try to start but then shut down with no thumping sound from the pump.

I described it in this thread :
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7237378-Aux-heater-metering-pump

Good luck, Robbie


----------



## kicku (Apr 8, 2018)

Paximus said:


> Hi Al,
> 
> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> ...







WOOOW

So easy???
Let me see if i have understood...
I have a 3.0 diesel V6 bought from Germany, and it have already aux heater from fabbrics, it's not a aftermarket, (it's blowed anyway, i have to change it).
But i am in doubt if change it with a used one and make it work or even to bybass it, merging the water pipes, closing the diesel pipe, delete it from can gateway etc.

So, mine would have it already separation valve, right? That means i have to skip step 3?

Thank you for all those who's replying.


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

kicku said:


> WOOOW
> 
> So easy???
> Let me see if i have understood...
> ...


Hi Kicku - I'm not sure from your note that you do understand. All V6 diesels have the heater - it is the same unit and referred to as an auxiliary heater in the standard car, and a parking heater if the original purchase paid another 1500 euros to have manual control of it. In other words it is a factory option to have a PARKING heater as opposed to the auxiliary heater - which would then include the additional coolant valve and a remote control for the heater. I think everything else is the same. VW probably assumed that those without the parking heater factory option did not need to know there was the auxiliary heater there. 

So if your car has the heater, you need to check if the PARKING heater is on the build sticker in the handbook, or in the wheel well in the boot (at least I think that's where it is - someone will correct me if I've misremembered).

Does this help you?

M


----------



## kicku (Apr 8, 2018)

n968412L said:


> Hi Kicku - I'm not sure from your note that you do understand. All V6 diesels have the heater - it is the same unit and referred to as an auxiliary heater in the standard car, and a parking heater if the original purchase paid another 1500 euros to have manual control of it. In other words it is a factory option to have a PARKING heater as opposed to the auxiliary heater - which would then include the additional coolant valve and a remote control for the heater. I think everything else is the same. VW probably assumed that those without the parking heater factory option did not need to know there was the auxiliary heater there.
> 
> So if your car has the heater, you need to check if the PARKING heater is on the build sticker in the handbook, or in the wheel well in the boot (at least I think that's where it is - someone will correct me if I've misremembered).
> 
> ...


Thank you for reply.
I do not have parking heater, just aux heater.

Today i will take off the aux heater (blowed) and will see what it is and what i have to add to make it work as parking heater.

Now you said about that sticker in the handbook...i've been serching on how "to translate" evrything is there...did not found nothing. Can you point me in the correct direction where i can find explanation or so about what does it mean every code printed there?


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

kicku said:


> Thank you for reply.
> I do not have parking heater, just aux heater.
> 
> Today i will take off the aux heater (blowed) and will see what it is and what i have to add to make it work as parking heater.
> ...


Hi - the post with sticker translation is here - but it might need its photos rehosting.....

Your response makes me think you still don't understand that there is NO DIFFERENCE between a parking heater and an auxiliary heater - they are the same. The only difference is that if you have a "factory fitted parking heater" - what you actually have is a valve (not a heater!) and a remote controller for the heater. The control software is already built in and just needs activating as per the VCDS instructions earlier in the thread - and for which you do not need the remote control. You don't need to add anything at all to make it work as a parking heater - ie you do not need the valve - and in fact many of us think it works better without the valve because then it warms the block too.

Good luck. And apologies if you do understand and it's just me not reading your English correctly.


----------



## kicku (Apr 8, 2018)

n968412L said:


> Hi - the post with sticker translation is here - but it might need its photos rehosting.....
> 
> Your response makes me think you still don't understand that there is NO DIFFERENCE between a parking heater and an auxiliary heater - they are the same. The only difference is that if you have a "factory fitted parking heater" - what you actually have is a valve (not a heater!) and a remote controller for the heater. The control software is already built in and just needs activating as per the VCDS instructions earlier in the thread - and for which you do not need the remote control. You don't need to add anything at all to make it work as a parking heater - ie you do not need the valve - and in fact many of us think it works better without the valve because then it warms the block too.
> 
> Good luck. And apologies if you do understand and it's just me not reading your English correctly.


Thank you for explaining what and where is that sticker found on handbook. Meanwhile i have found it's named "PR codes", have no idea what does it mean PR but for now i'm good. Already found the decoder online, fine.

So, my english it's very basic, i am trying to explain what i have understood but in english :facepalm:

I did understood from start the differences between auxiliar heater and parking heater was just at software level.
(at least in my case, european diesel car )
The real one difference between them is that the parking heater can be activated via remote fob, but the aux heater only via head unit AC menu.
Thank you for your patience and time.


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

kicku said:


> Thank you for explaining what and where is that sticker found on handbook. Meanwhile i have found it's named "PR codes", have no idea what does it mean PR but for now i'm good. Already found the decoder online, fine.
> 
> So, my english it's very basic, i am trying to explain what i have understood but in english :facepalm:
> 
> ...


Hi.
The parking heater can be programmed using the head unit too.
It's a 3 day calendar that you can set.
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Here is the Aux Heater control screen on the Central Display that is available after the coding is completed.

Chris












PS - as pointed out, this image shows the pre-2008 system.


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi.
> The parking heater can be programmed using the head unit too.
> It's a 3 day calendar that you can set.
> Wiken
> ...


I think you can programme more than three days ahead. The software on my GP3 is different -but I'm sure I could do up to a week ahead on my GP0 and GP1.

But that's my memory -you have the ability to prove me wrong


----------



## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

kicku said:


> Thank you for explaining what and where is that sticker found on handbook. Meanwhile i have found it's named "PR codes", have no idea what does it mean PR but for now i'm good. Already found the decoder online, fine.
> 
> So, my english it's very basic, i am trying to explain what i have understood but in english :facepalm:
> 
> ...


Your English is fine - the difference between the two heaters is not that easily understood whatever language you're using. And certainly most VW dealers don't understand anyway!

Good luck.
M


----------



## kicku (Apr 8, 2018)

Thank you for clarify :thumbup:

So, yesterday took 5 hours from puting the car on elevator to the take it off. 
I have done just a bypass because mine was blown, loosing refrigerent liquid, thus just to stop the leakage.
To get it off, i had to pull down the bumber with the left (LH) sustain bracket (found it cracked:facepalm, then the headlight, and in the last the intercooler.
After all that i've gained space to access the heater unit. In my case was not so easy because of tons of rust found everywhere 
The unit it's a total rust, my hope to recover the original cpu it's lost, i hope recoding the "new" used unit will not be a nightmare. Otherwise i can try to transplant the cpu to the "new" unit.
Anyway, today i found at local dismatling a used unit for just 50€, so this week or the next one, hope to find the time to finish the job.
Seems that the old owner of this car didn't care much about happened under the hood till the wheels go ahead...bad for me.
I took a few photos...maybe will help for everyone will want to change the unit.



Rust, rust and rust again everywhere...
Put a plastic filter just to merge the in out pipes.




The intercooler





The unit...or what remains of it...


















Sticker with info for those who lost it.



This is what remains from pcb...:what:










After washing the pcb.

The aux pump and the burner were the only things reusable.








Hope these photos will help those who want to take off the unit to fix it.


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Thank you for posting these photos.

That is the worst case of PCB degradation that I have ever seen, including old 80's cars with no window glass in a junk yard! 

Chris


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Paximus said:


> Thank you for posting these photos.
> 
> That is the worst case of PCB degradation that I have ever seen, including old 80's cars with no window glass in a junk yard!
> 
> Chris


I agree Chris.
I worked at OnOff in Sweden for 12 years repairing video and stuff. People sometimes water their VCR with water and flower additive, but this is the worst. 
Holy cr*p. 
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------



## Sherco (May 21, 2017)

Hi everybody!
New member with a question. I have a Passat b6 2.0 tdi. With vcds i see 7D AUX HEAT with no faults. My question is, my car have parking heather or not? I don't have the option 18 aux heat.


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

I want to ask you Phaeton pro's a question. 
I was planning to replace my heater next week, but have only a few days until my vacation ends.
Is easier to replace it using a lift compared to using a couple of jacks?
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Sherco said:


> Hi everybody!
> New member with a question. I have a Passat b6 2.0 tdi. With vcds i see 7D AUX HEAT with no faults. My question is, my car have parking heather or not? I don't have the option 18 aux heat.


Hi.
You might have an auxiliary heater, but not a parking heater. 

The same unit, but it's how you can use it. 
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

So, I have VCDS access so I'm going to turn the Aux heater in my 3.0 TDI into a parking heater. I'll use the timers to set it to come on 15 minutes before I leave to work each morning however I have three questions.

1. What if I turn it on and don't get in the car, will it just keep heating and heating for hours?
2. Once converted, would it be possible to get a key fob from VW and have it programmed for this?
3. How much fuel does it use?

Thanks


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

1. It will switch off after the amount of time that you program it for. You can't program it to stay on indefinitely.
2. No. But you can retrofit a Telestart. Other people have made lengthy threads about this.

Good luck 🙂


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Thanks Robbie,

You don't happen to know how to install it do you? Found a number of mentions but couldn't find how to actually install it. I was looking online though and it just seems to be the module/wires, how would you control it remotely?


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

I haven't fitted one (yet). I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along soon ...


----------



## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

GuyPaddick said:


> 3. How much fuel does it use?
> 
> Thanks


0,3-0,6 liter/h.

Lennart



Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

GuyPaddick said:


> Thanks Robbie,
> 
> You don't happen to know how to install it do you? Found a number of mentions but couldn't find how to actually install it. I was looking online though and it just seems to be the module/wires, how would you control it remotely?


Hi.
I have one in my P. However my heater is broken so I haven't been able to test it. 
I did buy a remote for it on Ebay.
The controller is placed in the avionics compartment, but I guess you already knew that. 
I planned to replace my heater this summer, but ran out of guts, wasn't really ready to rip the car apart.

To marry the remote with the heater is a little tricky as I understand it, but It should work well when following the steps.

All I know I found in this thread. It's a lot to read.

As a side note, I do recommend to replace a broken heater, if living in colder climate, the diesel P is quite cold and takes a while to warm up.

Loosing my gut this summer, I retrofitted the heated steering wheel instead, and that's really good, it compensates a little for the broken heater. 

Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------



## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

To change from aux heater to parking heater, you also need an additional electric pump V55 and fittings, otherwise the static coolant will just boil and lock out the heater, the pump is shown on p12-13 of http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_280_d1.pdf it just plugs into a spare socket on the heater a few inches from it's mounting.
While adaption channels and values are probably different on the A8, this document has very useful info. and photos...
http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=17594&d=1512576358 (PDF Download)


----------



## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Aux heater struggle, some parts may be useful here:
It all began with the heater running but no heating of the cabin. No fault codes. Heater temp rised rapidly up to turn off temp followed by a cool down phase to be turned on again. This sequence was repeated for as long as the heater was activated. All pointing to heating a much smaller volume of coolant than it should as if the coolant did not circulate. Found the V55 recirculation pump defective allthough undetected by the diagnostics. This does not cause a lock down of the heater by the way, it works as it should but in very much shorter sequences.
Bought a complete used heater with the pump and changed the pump. The functionality was tested by running the coolant through a bucket and was found working fine. After assembling it all I found it as defective as before and bought a new pump just to find fault code short to plus...
Reason: The circuit board had gone bad after the pump exchange and the used pump was OK. Well, the used heater just purchased could donate the circuit bord to solve that. After putting it all in place again the recirculation pump was running again but no ignition. Found fault code for metering pump short to ground an it was indeed shorted, 1 ohm, wiring through the car included. Impossible to reach the pins on the pump to measure directly on the pins but possible to disconnect the connector and find that the wiring was not shorted. Used pump purchased and it is a straight forward with two nuts and petrol lines if it wasn’t for the complete rear axle that makes it impssible to reach more than just the connector. This time the workshop manuals directions are accurate, you need to lower the complete rear package after the mufflers are lowered. Done and that allowed room for one and a half hand to work on the pump connections. Just to find the nuts quite corroded on the threads with no room to really work on it. The threads the nuts are mounted on are welded on the body so if you break them you will find a ton of work to be able to mount the pump again. I chose to fiddle the pump out of the rubber mountings to avoid such things and it did actually work. The first start attempt resulted in a big cloud of smoke and shut down. The pump came from a diesel, same part number for diesel and petrol, so after the first cleaning run it fired up! After assembling everything in that region of the car and wheel alignment I have a working parking heater again!

The first problems with the recirculation pump may have some connections to each other but the short in the metering pump has absolutely nothing to do with that. The two pumps are about €250 each new.

Some photos that may show one or two useful things, this is for the W12:

Bumper cover off.









Platics for the headlight washer and bumper cover fitting off.









SAS pumps off, a few nuts, connector and air tubes off








Tricky part: The hose clamp on the heater, you have a few degrees to work on and get a grip on it even with a tool made for this. Patiens is needed. Clamp the hoses and you will just loose half a liter of coolant.

Metering pump in theory:









Metering pump in the real world, the shiny bit is the connector.









Some picture of the connector fastener behind the bumper and how it locks/unlocks, first picture shows the connector with fastener below an extra fastener above in the bumper just to show how things are fitted:









The fastener/connector in locked position:









The fastener released over the notch on the connector:









The fastener released ready to just slide the connector off sideways:









Just to avoid broken plastics and dangeling wires

And if you want to install a recirculation pump you need to pull the complete heater out of the big mounting bracket to be able to lift the plastic lid that covers the connector you need to connect the pump to. Quite Phaetonish even though that has nothing to do with the construction of the phaeton, just pure Webasto construction.
And the three screws on each side of the heater that holds it in the big mounting bracket are the self cutting type that corrodes very well to the heater body soft metal. Just do everything you can to try to get them out without breaking them. I failed on two of them and the parts left are allmost impssible to get out even with the proper tools for the job.

Lennart



Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi.
> I have one in my P. However my heater is broken so I haven't been able to test it.
> I did buy a remote for it on Ebay.
> The controller is placed in the avionics compartment, but I guess you already knew that.
> ...


I've read that its in the avionics compartment but I'm not sure where that is, is it behind the head unit? Also, was the steering wheel easy? I'd love to do it in mine as I've realised one of the flaws at the moment is how cold it is for the first 15 minutes after start up.


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Lennart,

Thank you for a well-illustrated and very helpful post. 

Chris


----------



## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

We had quite an in-depth discussion on this topic in circa 2010-2011, see posts from #30 ahead for the info. But to make it brief: All diesel phaetons (with VERY few exceptions which I do not remember right now) came with the Thermo Top heater installed. Unless parking heater was ordered, the heater was programmed to auxiliary mode. Meaning, that the heater only assists the engine in warming up quicker. And unlike most other diesel cars, the Phaeton DOES have the recirculation pump (V55), needed for parking heater conversion, always installed with the heater itself! So there is no need to add it!

The only "plumbing" difference is the absence of 4-way coolant shutoff valve (N279, see page 24 of the SSP document) in cars without parking heater option. All this valve does is separate the engine from cooling circuit, making it possible for the heater to warm up the interior only. Installed this way, the Webasto does NOT pre-heat the engine at all. For many of us in the Nordics, this is actually NOT the preferred way. There is wisdom on how to disable an existing 4-way valve in this thread. But anyway, it is not a required component!

So, simply put: all you need to get parking heater working is re-coding with VCDS. If you would like to have the Telestart remote, it can be installed DIY. Per (perfrej) - who has sadly passed away - did this for his car. See post 106 in this thread. Do observe that all Phaetons have individually customized wiring looms and therefore there is no connector nor wiring preinstalled under the rear shelf for aftermarket install of Telestart. Instead of running a wire from there all the way to front fender, the Telestart would be much easier to install somewhere closer to engine bay. This is exactly what Per did.

Good luck!

Jouko


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

GuyPaddick said:


> I've read that its in the avionics compartment but I'm not sure where that is, is it behind the head unit? Also, was the steering wheel easy? I'd love to do it in mine as I've realised one of the flaws at the moment is how cold it is for the first 15 minutes after start up.


Hi.
Yes, it's in there:








It in the bottom right part with a blue and pink connector.








Here is the remote I brought on Ebay:









Oh, by the way, the steering wheel was easy to retrofit, just a cool head and take your time. 
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------



## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

snapdragon said:


> To change from aux heater to parking heater, you also need an additional electric pump V55 and fittings, otherwise the static coolant will just boil and lock out the heater, the pump is shown on p12-13 of http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_280_d1.pdf it just plugs into a spare socket on the heater a few inches from it's mounting.


Not correct - See Jouko's post.

BTW, I managed to change my metering pump (3.0TDI) without disassembling the rear end. I just disassembled my knuckles instead.


----------



## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> BTW, I managed to change my metering pump (3.0TDI) without disassembling the rear end. I just disassembled my knuckles instead.


I don’t know what may differ between the models but there was not a shadow of a chance to reach more than the connector on mine. I read your post and thought I should ask how you did but after looking on mine I found it not doable. It was kind of confirmed when I lowered the rear axle.

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

I'm having trouble tracking down the avionics compartment for when I install the Telestart. I've checked forums and pics and found of pics of it open (pics needed rehosting but googled image search on the thread name works, just out of order) but I'm trying to get an idea of where it actually is. I've heard head unit and also rear hat shelf so just wondered if somebody could let me know where exactly it is and how to access it? 

Thanks


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

GuyPaddick said:


> I'm having trouble tracking down the avionics compartment for when I install the Telestart. I've checked forums and pics and found of pics of it open (pics needed rehosting but googled image search on the thread name works, just out of order) but I'm trying to get an idea of where it actually is. I've heard head unit and also rear hat shelf so just wondered if somebody could let me know where exactly it is and how to access it?
> 
> Thanks


It's in the boot/trunk, under the window. There are 6 or 8 screws to unscrew then it folds down.
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

gwiken65 said:


> It's in the boot/trunk, under the window. There are 6 or 8 screws to unscrew then it folds down.
> Wiken
> 
> Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


Perfect! Thanks gwiken! Can't wait to get this rigged up!


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Guy,

Here's a photo.











The shelf swings down on hinges. I seem to remember that the fixing screws are different lengths, so make a note of which go where.

Chris


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Paximus said:


> Hi Guy,
> 
> Here's a photo.
> 
> ...


Wonderful, thanks for the help Chris.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

GuyPaddick said:


> Wonderful, thanks for the help Chris.


Double check when removing the screws but on both of my Phaetons the two longer ones were on each side at the last hole. The hole on each side closest to the back seat. 


There are 9 screws. 

5 across the back (nearest the trunk or boot opening). the long ones on each side towards the front and two across the middle of the shelf. They are fuzzy coated Torx screws. I think they are T25. The fuzz matches the surface of the shelf but you can feel them. I can remove them without climbing inside now. The shelf has prongs molded into the plastic of the shelf that are supposed to hold it in place in clips in the sheet metal. The shelf should stay up by itself without the screws until you pry it down. Make sure you count 9 screws before pulling down on it though. 

You can see the picture in post #1:

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...J605-Trunk-Lid-Control-Module-TOC-Photos-done

If you look on the sides of the shelf, you can make out the prongs, two on each side with the screw holes (for what I believe are the long screws) in between. If you look just up from the antenna, you can make out the two holes for the two middle screws. Those holes are in what look like spacers from this vantage point. The two outer back holes on the shelf are the same way.


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Just trying to get my head around the menu controls.

I did the VCDS coding change this week and its worked, I have the auxiliary heater option in the A/C settings, but I'm trying to work out how it all works. I only had about 50 miles of fuel left so it was below the lower limit for the heater to come on so was limited as to what I could do.

So "Heater" I assume just turns it on there and then, so if I'm sat in the car and its off and I press it it should start up straight away right? You then have the preset times you can alter but am I right that these are limited to only 3 entries? I was hoping to be able to set it up about 10 for all my journeys to and from work to turn on before and then I wouldn't need to touch it again really but it seems as it only holds 3 I'll need to keep switching them around every couple of days. Is there some workaround here?

How long does it take for warm air to start entering the cabin? Before I set this up it could be 10-15 minutes before the engines warmed up enough to start putting out hot air. Is that normal, a fault, or something that should be sorted now I have a parking heater? 

Thanks


----------



## FlyHigh757 (Aug 22, 2018)

Guy,

I've just got mine working, I had to replace the ECU thermistor with a 12k Ohm one. You can just press the start / stop option on the menu, assuming that the coolant is below a set threshold and the outside air temp is cool (shouldn't be a problem at this time of year) the heater should start. Be careful if you put you hand under the little exhaust just in front of the passenger front wheel, it gets hot!

Regarding programming the times, yes there are only three times you can set, however, I have found that if I have set say Tuesday 8:30pm for 50 mins. When I start the car the next day, the time has automatically changed to Wednesday 8:30pm. So I just place a tick in that time window. I have a GP2 with RNS810.

I have just ordered a T91 module and remote, assuming it all works correctly i will produce a write up with all part numbers and issues I've found and resolved! There are lots of module, heater and remote combinations and not all are interchangeable.

Regarding heating... I have the heater on for 50mins and the cabin temperature is warm, not hot. However, there is a lot of coolant in the Phaeton. When I start the engine, the water temperature has been between 35-45 oC. The engine runs so so much smoother compared to stating it at 2 oC without the heater on beforehand. It's then about a 5-7min drive at reasonable speed and the coolant is up to 90 oC. If it's icy, all windows and sunroof have defrosted.

You definitely need fuel in the tank otherwise the heater won't work.

Good luck!

Simon


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Thanks for the help Simon, sorry I didn't get back to you. 

I've done a bit of digging and got in touch with my local dealership to get some part numbers. The email I got was as follows:

_"Afternoon Guy 

Attached shows our diagram of the remote and the control and receiver 

The remote part number 1K0 963 511 A is now 7N0 963 511 which is £254.36

The receiver part number 1K0 963 513 A is now 7N0 963 513 B which is £579.74

Your vehicle does not show the receiver being fitted in your vehicle.

Neither of these are showing stock in England or Germany so would have to be a special non-refundable special order.

Hope this helps you out Guy" _

Interesting he stated it wasn't showing stock in England and Germany. Does anybody in Europe have a GP1 with a factory fitting parking heater?

He explains in the email that the part numbers have changed. This is just where Webasto has updated the module, so the first part numbers are for the T90, and the newer numbers are for the T91R Webasto, but can confirm the T91R should work with the Phaeton still. I found the below T91R on eBay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Webasto-7N0963513B/2078343802?iid=292629571150&chn=ps

Proves to be less than a fifth of the price for what I can only imagine is the exact same part from the same production line as VW would supply. 

Just thought I'd share for the update.


----------



## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

I have one in mine.
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


----------

