# Cell Phone Update



## hmorse (Nov 14, 2004)

Phaeton says a retrofit for 2004 cell phone system with bluetooth was suppossed to be available the end of October to Mid November. They have a waiting list for interested buyers. Anyone have any info on this?


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## Razlaw (Apr 24, 2004)

I hope you are right!


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (hmorse)*

I believe I can offer a kit to do this and the XM input. I even purchased the connector for the back of the radio. I'm just waiting for a local Phaeton owner to show up.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (spockcat)*

I had the radio out of the dashboard the other day (or, to use VW's nomenclature, the "Front Information Display Control Head Module - J523"). There are 4 connectors on the back of it. One is the optical databus from the navigation CD player, another is a little 4 wire connector that handles illumination of the controls. The two connectors that are of interest for a project such as an auxiliary sound input or a telephone connection would be the T32c connector and the multi-pin "radio" connector. I've attached pictures of both of them below.
The multi pin "radio" connector appears to be identical in every respect with the connector that was on the back of my 2002 Golf radio. I think there is a German Industrial Norm (DIN) that governs the size of the connectors and the pinouts on the "radio" connector. This is to facilitate installation of aftermarket radios.
There are two different wiring diagrams for Phaeton radios - one for the 8 channel sound system (diagram 34), and one for the 12 channel sound system (diagram 35). Both are 6 pages. If anyone needs them, let me know.
Michael
*T32c Connector pin assignments on J523*








*Phaeton "Radio" connector*


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## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (hmorse)*

where did the blue tooth rumour start?
The only change I see for a 2005 model involving cell phone integration of any kind reads like this:

Cell phone preparation for Nokia phones – 6310/6340/6360 (Not available with 4-seater package) 
Does anyone have a 2005 with Blue Tooth? My phaeton trainer says no, and I see no evidence from VW to tell me otherwise. Maybe I missed it?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Corradodrvrfnd)*

Phaetons have been available for quite a while in Europe with a Bluetooth cell phone package. You don't have to plug the phone in anywhere, just having it in your pocket is good enough (like keyless start). When the car detects the phone, it polls it for an updated phone list and address book, and then transfers this information to the infotainment unit. You then do all your directory searching, etc. from the infotainment unit. It also includes call display, and hands free voice dialing (speech recognition).
In Europe, all cell phones use the same technology, which is GSM 900/1800. Because of that, cell coverage is seamless throughout continental Europe. This means no need for a separate telematics system such as OnStar.
It's not possible to have both OnStar (a North America only program) and the Bluetooth cell phone, and GSM coverage in North America is pretty much restricted to urban areas - analogue cell coverage, which is what OnStar uses, has the greatest coverage area in North America. I suspect this is why VW elected to provide OnStar in the North American cars.
Michael


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## hmorse (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (spockcat)*

Where are you located? Maybe it would be worth the drive for the XM and bluetooth. Will there be asny dash display for the bluetooth or just muting the stereo and maybe, using the vehicles onstar microphones?


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## hmorse (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PanEuropean)*

I would be interested in the wiring diagram for the 12 channel radio that you mentioned. I still want to try for xm, and I am sure my stereo installer would find this helpful. Could you email them to me at: [email protected] 
Thanks!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (hmorse)*

12 Channel radio wiring diagram (number 35) is attached below. It is a 572 kb file. Double click to open it, right click and choose "Save Target As" to save it to your computer.
*Archival Note:* To determine if your Phaeton has a 12 channel sound system, press the 'AUDIO' button, and look for a 'DSP' softkey in the upper left corner. If this softkey is present, you have a 12 channel sound system, and need wiring diagram 35. If you see the word 'LOUDNESS' in the upper left corner, then you have an 8 channel sound system, and need wiring diagram 34. The telematics diagram is the same for either sound system fitment.
Michael
*How to identify a 12 channel sound system*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PanEuropean)*

You might also want to download and read the file "Mobile Phone and Radio Installation Considerations", which is located on this thread: XM Radio. It's attached to the 4th post down from the top of the discussion.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (hmorse)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hmorse* »_Where are you [Spockcat] located?

From the lat/long given, it looks like he's in East Hartford, CT - living under the bridge that crosses the Connecticut River...


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_From the lat/long given, it looks like he's in East Hartford, CT - living under the bridge that crosses the Connecticut River...









Damn, he's good!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (spockcat)*

Well, the world's second best aircraft engines are made in East Hartford. The world's best are made by the same company, in Longueuil, Québec...


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

The Onstar system provided with Phaeton (and some Touaregs) will become worthless in 2007 when the analog cellular system in the US is retired and shut down. (I've heard the the latest Onstar systems from GM use Verizon's CDMA digital network instead).
So I'd be happy to disconnect Onstar in favor of Bluetooth, if someone can figure out a Bluetooth solution for the Phaeton. I believe most people would prefer to use their cellphone hand-free as an alternative to Onstar.
One other question -- Does anyone know why Volkswagen felt compelled to mar the lines of the US-model Phaeton with the ugly external Onstar antenna? The car already has a cellular antenna built into the back window, with the unused connector available in the center console. That antenna doesn't care whether analog or digital transmissison is being used, and an antenna built for European GSM frequencies would have worked just fine for Onstar US analog cellular frequencies. Very strange...
- Dave










_Modified by uberanalyst at 6:32 PM 11-16-2004_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Dave: 
The cell antenna built into the back window is for the 900/1800 MHz GSM frequency, which transmits at 0.9 watts. OnStar, as you mentioned, uses analog cell technology, and transmits at 3 watts when installed on a vehicle. Hence the need for a different antenna, the little one sticking up from the roof.
The antenna does care very much what frequency is used. The European 900/1800 antennas can "just" handle the North American 1900 MHz GSM frequency - this I proved when I retrofitted an OEM VW telephone system to my 2002 Golf, using a VW roof antenna - but there is no way the OEM GSM could handle the very different frequency (and power requirement) for analog cell service.
Michael


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Michael:
I'm not sure I entirely agree with your antenna explanation.
Normally antennas are optimized for the correct wavelength (which is inversely proportional to the radio frequency - the higher the frequency, the shorter the wavelength and the shorter the corresponding antenna); antennas lengths are ideally the same as a full wavelength, but can also work for even fractions of a wavelength (1/2, 1/4, etc.)
So a single antenna good for both European 900/1800 MHz bands must be a compromise. This is similarly true for North American cellphones, which use a single length antenna for both 800 and 1900 MHz PCS bands.
(Bluetooth, at 2.4 GHz requires a completely separate antenna for even higher frequencies.)
There are now "quad-band" phones which use a single length antenna for European and North American frequencies (GSM and CDMA), covering 800-900 and 1800-1900 MHz bands. These frequency bands are "close enough" to where a single antenna will work. This is also why your Golf could use a European antenna for North American frequencies.
As for power levels, .9 watts vs. 3 watts doesn't make any difference to the antenna. People routinely adjust power levels up and down without having to change antennas. (Installing a digital cellphone in my older BMW required removal of the 3-watt booster amp used with the previous analog cellular system, but the antennas were identical.)
So there's probably no technical reason why the Onstar couldn't have used the same antenna for 800 MHz (North American analog AMPS system). My guess is that it was simply easier engineering-wise for VW to add a completely separate system for Onstar vs. trying to re-use the existing window antenna with a cable that went to the "wrong" place in the car. Or VW used a supplier for the Onstar system that provided a complete system that included the supplier's own antenna, and the supplier didn't want to go to the trouble of certifying Onstar's performance with VW's built-in antenna from a different supplier.
This may be just another one of the peculiar things that VW does for its North American cars (no paddle shifters, no keyless start, etc.).
- Dave


_Modified by uberanalyst at 8:57 AM 11-17-2004_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Well - RF is not an area I have great competence in. Could it be because the OnStar system is analogue (continuous modulated signal) and the GSM antenna in the rear glass is intended for a digital (pulsed) signal that VW had to install a different antenna?
Just a guess.
Michael


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## bobschneider (Oct 12, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PanEuropean)*

Michael, would you mind posting the diagram for the 8 channel/10 speaker base stereo as well.
Thanks!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (bobschneider)*

Phaeton wiring diagram 34, 'Radio system with CD-Changer preparation (8-Channel)', is attached.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (bobschneider)*

For those of you who are investigating cell phone installations, there are three wiring diagrams that will probably be of interest to you:
Either:
.... - Diagram 34, which is the 8 channel/10 speaker radio, or;
.... - Diagram 35, which is the 12 channel/12 speaker radio,
....  _both of which are posted just above in this thread_
....*AND*
.... - Diagram 36, entitled "Telematics with cell phone preparation".
Diagram 36 shows how VW builds the North American cars (November 2003 and subsequent) that have both OnStar and provision for a cell phone installation incorporated at the factory in Dresden. I have not investigated this further, because I don't have any interest in putting a cell phone in my car. I don't believe this is the Bluetooth handsfree cell phone installation that is provided in Europe. To the best of my understanding it shows the option for 'cell phone preparation' that is available on North American cars. This is more than simply the MCX connector in the armrest between the seats - this wiring diagram shows the phone itself, the phone baseplate, the Telematics switchover module, etc.
Diagram 36 is attached below.


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Michael:
Thanks for the telematics diagram - that's exactly what I was looking for.
As to your earlier question, the antenna for digital vs. analog cellular service is identical; as I described earlier, what matters there is the antenna being the proper length to match the RF wavelength.
But to the issue of getting Bluetooth to work in the Phaeton in North America, we should be able to get it to work at least partially with VW's system.
All Bluetooth is not alike: the Bluetooth standard has multiple "profiles". One profile is the one that enables wireless headsets, and permits hand-free operation in cars as well. This is independent of GSM vs. CDMA, is independent of the frequencies used, and is independent of the cellphone/headset/auto manufacter (the nice thing about standards). So the European VW Bluetooth components should permit hands-free operation with ANY Bluetooth phone - they ALL support the hands-free profile.
The other Bluetooth profile of interest is the one that supports address book synchronization. This is supported by most phones, and is probably also supported by the Phaeton's Bluetooth system. The issue here is that there are no standards for how the address book information is formatted, so it tends to be tied to specific vendor phones and their embedded operating systems (again, not GSM vs. CDMA, nor European vs. North American frequency bands). My guess here is that the VW Bluetooth system may be designed to synchronize address book information with Nokia, but maybe not other makes of phones. I'm just guessing that this may be why VW decided not to offer it in North America.
So the bottom line is that if we can figure out how to order and install VW's Bluetooth parts for the Phaeton, there's a high likelihood the handsfree Bluetooth feature will work. And if we're lucky, we might also be able to get the address book synchronization to work with some phones (e.g., Nokia).
The more we can find out about how the European system works, the better.
- Dave


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Dave:
Hopefully I will get back to the factory in Dresden in another 10 to 14 days, for sure I will go digging on the Bluetooth phone issue.
Respecting phones in the Phaeton, though, I there are at least three different packages that have been offered as OEM by VW. They include a hard-wired phone that resides in the bin between the front seats (see this link for a photo: Phone in 5 seater), a Bluetooth system - that is the only system available on the 4 seater, due to lack of space for the larger phone mentioned first, and the North American system, which the wiring diagram 36 that I posted refers to. So, we are going to have to be very careful in our discussions not to get the different systems mixed up.
Michael


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Upon review of the telematics with cellphone prep diagram, I learned a few more things:
- The external antenna on the roof of North American Phaetons includes both a cellphone antenna AND a GPS satellite antenna needed for the Onstar operator to track your location. The Onstar system probably doesn't share either of these; they are probably separate from the built-in rear window cellphone antenna or the built-in GPS satellite antenna that drives the Phaeton's nav system (included with European and North American cars).
- The diagram is not for a Bluetooth phone system, but a wired cellphone connection to the Phaeton. I would sure love to know what model of North American phone plugs into this system.
What's still needed is a wiring diagram for the European Bluetooth system, showing its modules, the location of the car's Bluetooth antenna (s), and how it ties into the dash-mounted central control head WITHOUT going through the North American "Telematics Switch-Over Module" (which may have to be bypassed, disabling Onstar, for us to add VW's integrated Bluetooth).
- Dave


_Modified by uberanalyst at 6:21 PM 11-17-2004_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uberanalyst* »_The diagram is not for a Bluetooth phone system, but a wired cellphone connection to the Phaeton. I would sure love to know what model of North American phone plugs into this system.

According to VW of NA's quasi-public information (details released to all the dealers concerning 2005 MY changes), the cell phone preparation is for Nokia phones – 6310/6340/6360. Due to space constraints (not enough space in the front armrests), it is not available with 4-seater package.
This is what wiring diagram 36 refers to.
Michael


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

As I remember the Siemens S55/S65 should be fine too with the VAG Bluetooth equipment.
PS: I don't know if they are avialiable in the US, so don't mind if you don't know them


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

I did some more investigation of the Phaeton's Onstar system - primarily with the question of what motivated VW not to make a phone system available in North American cars.
It turns out that Verizon supplies the analog cellphone service currently used by the Phaeton's Onstar system. Verizon supplies wholesale minutes to Onstar; these minutes are simply resold to VW customers as part of the prepaid Onstar bundles of minutes.
But more interesting, this summer Verizon and Onstar announced a new "America's Choice with Onstar" service that lets you use your Verizon phone in conjunction with Onstar in your vehicle. With a single Verizon phone number, you can forward calls between your vehicle and cellphone, and take calls with either your vehicle or cellphone. If this worked in the Phaeton, you could just subscribe to Verizon with ANY phone, and make/receive calls in the Phaeton hands-free. As a current Verizon customer, this would be terrific for me.
Ahh, but there's a catch. The "America's Choice with Onstar" only works with DIGITAL Onstar, not the creaky, soon-to-be obsolete, ANALOG-only system included with all 2004 and 2005 US Phaetons (or Audis). Thus you've got to have a General Motors 2004 or 2005 vehicle for this to work.
So the natural question is "will there ever be an upgrade to a digital Onstar system?" If you read the FAQ posted on the Verizon website, it says:
"Q. Can I upgrade the hardware in my vehicle to the OnStar digital hardware?
A. Information on the availability of upgrades will be available at a later date."
This holds out some hope for us Phaeton owners that might want to use Verizon's service in the future.
The other even more interesting bit of information from the FAQ was this:
"Q. Will Bluetooth technology play a role in OnStar’s future service offerings?
A. Bluetooth is not capable of supporting the safety and security services OnStar can deliver through an embedded wireless connection. We’ll continue to monitor and test the Bluetooth technology, and it may show up in future iterations of the OnStar service."
This might account for why VW has not decided to offer Bluetooth in US vehicles (and why the diagram Michael provided for North American vehicles applies only to a WIRED cellphone connection).
I'd sure love to get inside VW's head to understand why only analog Onstar, and why no Bluetooth or other phone systems are available in North American Phaetons. This seems to be the worst possible set of choices for customers.
More information on the program we CAN'T take advantage of can be located at:
http://www.vzwshop.com/OnStar/
- Dave 


_Modified by uberanalyst at 8:58 PM 11-18-2004_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uberanalyst* »_I'd sure love to get inside VW's head to understand why only analog Onstar, and why no Bluetooth or other phone systems are available in North American Phaetons.

This I can figure out (armchair quarterbacking, of course) very easily. I think VW's primary goal was to include a communication system that would deliver "customer support" in all the Phaetons. By customer support, I mean breakdown service, emergency service, the concierge service, etc. A second essential criteria was that the system allow the customer to make and receive telephone calls.
Because of the lack of standardization of mobile telephone technical standards in North America (analogue, GSM, CDMA, TDMA, etc., rather than simply GSM as in Europe), VW had to pick one technical standard that would give the greatest possible geographic coverage - hence their choice of analogue, which beats digital hands down in rural areas (ask any farmer). OnStar is the only third party that I know of that operates a national, consumer oriented support service. Hence, OnStar analogue. It's the best possible choice for the goals stated in the first paragraph.
In Europe, cell phone coverage is almost universal through the GSM standard, which is the only technical spec used. So, VW offers their customer support services through standard GSM telephony, and simply wires the phone into the car in such a way that it can poll the navigation unit for lat/long, destination (if active), and in some cases, diagnostic information such as fault codes. Customers are free to choose whatever service provider they want (Orange, Vodafone, Swisscom, whatever). Because everyone uses the same technical specification, any phone will work on any network, and changing service providers is as simple as just replacing the SIM card in the phone - a 30 second job that the end user can do.
Michael


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Michael:
I understand why VW offered Onstar - for many of the reasons you cited.
What I can't understand is why VW would choose to introduce such an antiquated analog-only Onstar system in Phaetons and some Touaregs beginning in 2004. I neglected to mention that GM's digital Onstar system (like many North American cellphones) also provides analog coverage as a fall-back where digital is not available -- a smaller and smaller area. And the analog system will be shut down in the US by 2007 - the FCC has given permission for cellular providers to re-purpose their analog cellular spectrum for other more valuable uses. Our Onstar system with its ugly tacked-on external roof antenna will become a worthless piece of junk at that point.
But IMHO the first priority for most Phaeton customers is not telematics or customer support, but safe, hands-free use of their cellphones. And the beauty of Bluetooth (besides the ability of users to leave their phones in their pocket) is that it works with ANY Bluetooth cellphone - GSM or CDMA, and independent of frequency band. This is why most carmakers like Acura, Lexus, BMW, etc. introduced Bluetooth in their 2004 models and are rapidly making Bluetooth available in all of their cars - it gives customers a choice of phones and service providers, and gets carmakers out of the phone business.
VW already offers Bluetooth for Phaetons sold in Germany, so why not in North America?
- Dave


_Modified by uberanalyst at 11:58 PM 11-18-2004_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Here is the parts diagram and parts number listing from the North American ETKA (VW Electronic Parts Catalog) for telephone installations. Many thanks to Hendra, the parts specialist at my dealership, for doing the research and finding this information.
There are a few things that interested parties will need to look into further:
1) It appears that this diagram lists parts for both a Bluetooth and non-Bluetooth installation - note the different listings for 'xxx 035 705' parts, and 'xxx 035 705 *A*' parts.
2) Some of these parts might already exist on our cars. This diagram and the accompanying text shows all the different parts that are needed for the whole system to work. I suspect that item 15, the antenna, is already present in our cars, because in North America, we all have navigation systems.
3) Items 27 and 28 appear to be to be very similar to the parts used to fit the Bluetooth phone system into the 4 seaters in Europe. But, the text of the North American parts catalog specifically identifies these parts as being for "vehicles with 3 rear seats" - in other words, 5 seaters. I suspect that there may be an error in the text here, that items 35, 25, and 29, as well as items 36, 26 and 30 are the parts used in a 5 seater, and items 35, 36, 27 and 28 are the components used for the 4 seater. But, that is just a guess on my part.
4) In the text description for items 10 and 11, note that the word 'NUR' is German language for 'only', so that should really read 'only USA' (or, more properly, 'only North America').
5) The most encouraging find on the text list is the description of item 20, 'diversity box for telephone and telematics', which suggests that this might be the part required to allow both cell telephone and OnStar to coexist with each other.
6) In the North American ETKA catalog, parts that appear in the illustration but not in the accompanying text (e.g. item 3 and its sub-components) are items that are not applicable to the North American market. This particular part could be a GSM module, or something to do with telematics used in Europe.
*BUT* - you guys are on your own here, and will have to do your own due diligence before you buy parts. I don't intend to refit a cell phone to my car, which means that although I will try to collect and publish as much information and as many photos as I can, I will not be doing fact-checking on it, such as I did with the keyless start and warning triangle retrofits.
Michael
*Phone Parts Listing from North American ETKA Catalog*


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## mr.vw (Oct 9, 2003)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (spockcat)*

jeez..there goes the neighborhood....Spock lives in MY town...time to move to Glastonbury...lol


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (mr.vw)*

Mark,
I haven't seen you under my bridge? Besides, I would NEVER live on the East Hartford side.


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## red5sp1.8T (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uberanalyst* »_Michael:
I understand why VW offered Onstar - for many of the reasons you cited.
What I can't understand is why VW would choose to introduce such an antiquated analog-only Onstar system in Phaetons and some Touaregs beginning in 2004. I neglected to mention that GM's digital Onstar system (like many North American cellphones) also provides analog coverage as a fall-back where digital is not available -- a smaller and smaller area. And the analog system will be shut down in the US by 2007 - the FCC has given permission for cellular providers to re-purpose their analog cellular spectrum for other more valuable uses. Our Onstar system with its ugly tacked-on external roof antenna will become a worthless piece of junk at that point.
But IMHO the first priority for most Phaeton customers is not telematics or customer support, but safe, hands-free use of their cellphones. And the beauty of Bluetooth (besides the ability of users to leave their phones in their pocket) is that it works with ANY Bluetooth cellphone - GSM or CDMA, and independent of frequency band. This is why most carmakers like Acura, Lexus, BMW, etc. introduced Bluetooth in their 2004 models and are rapidly making Bluetooth available in all of their cars - it gives customers a choice of phones and service providers, and gets carmakers out of the phone business.
VW already offers Bluetooth for Phaetons sold in Germany, so why not in North America?
- Dave

_Modified by uberanalyst at 11:58 PM 11-18-2004_

Maybe a little history can shed some light on VW's decision. VW didn't choose Onstar for their vehicles, but were forced into using the system along with other GM components as part of a settlement in a lawsuit filed against them by GM.
Juan Ignacio Lopez, a former GM Worldwide Purchasing Chief, was caught stealing engineering plans and the like from GM and sharing them with VW in early 90's. As a result of the subsequent criminal case and lawsuit, VW agreed to purchase more than $1 Billion in components from GM subsidiaries (Monsoon and Onstar for example). Perhaps that agreement is nearing an end and VW will not offer Onstar beyond 2007. 
In fact, I believe the settlement occurred in 1997 and was supposed to last for 7 years.


_Modified by red5sp1.8T at 12:59 PM 11-29-2004_


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (red5sp1.8T)*

red5sp1.8T:
Your story about the GM/VW settlement explains a lot. I guess VW chose to acquire the "surplus" analog Onstar units from GM in order to help purchase a $billion worth of components. This also benefits GM as they get to keep a competitor (VW/Audi) from installing the more modern digital systems in their cars.
Separately, I recently heard from someone (who asked me not to reveal their identity) that Motorola Bluetooth phones have proven to be compatible with the German Phaeton's Bluetooth installation. I don't yet know if this means only that the Bluetooth hands-free profile is supported, or if this also means the address book numbers will transfer from the phone to the Phaeton's in-dash unit.
My wife just bought a Bluetooth-equipped Motorola V710 phone today, so I've now got an incentive to try and get Bluetooth working in my Phaeton. Maybe I'll have some time during the upcoming holidays to figure out which German VW parts I need to purchase and install. If I can't order the parts through VWoA, I'll pick them up during my next European trip (I was visiting Germany last week), or have a German co-worker obtain them to ship to me.
What I'd really like to find is the European Phaeton wiring diagram - the parts diagrams posted in this thread have already been quite helpful.
- Dave


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## hmorse (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Let me know what you find out about bluetooth! I am having a CK-3100 installed in my 2004 Phaeton on Wednesday. It has it's own display for incoming calls, caller ID and will voice dial. I have a V600 which is fully bluetooth compatible.


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (hmorse)*

Hi folks, I must say I am not understanding quite what this topic is about. Here we can have bluetooth installed but there does not seem much point since we can buy a bluetooth headset and it can be moved from car to car.The only advantage is that headup display is good but with the headset, all calls can be answered, calls also can be made using the voice recognition. There does not appear to be value in the cost of installation. With the bluetooth Nokia and headset, in my own case, its better having the transportability.


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## hmorse (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: (pilgrim7777)*

Your comments are exactly what makes ownership of the Phaeton a unique experience. What works well for you, does not work well for me. I do not like to wear an earpiece when I am driving for a myriad of reasons. I often have others in my vehicle who need to participate in the conversation. A built-in bluetooth system (or speakerhpone) is and should be mandatory in a vehicle of this class, thereby giving you the option of an earpiece OR a speakerphone.


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (hmorse)*

Your point is well made, "horses for courses"


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (hmorse)*

About the PHONE and navigation systems. I just got a call from the Phaeton customer experience and satisfaction department. They asked me questions about how I liked my VW and all of the surrounding topics including dealership experiences. I had great postitive things to say about my dealership. They have been truly awesome. The two things I asked about were the phone availability and the nav improvements. The representative told me that a phone is being worked out as fast as possible. No specific time frame but that it is on top priority. She told me to just hang on for a little longer as VW is very aware of the requests from Phaeton owners and they are doing every thing they can to quickly get a fully functional phone available.
Side note about the Nav system. I was disappointed about not having DVD nav as everyone seems to be. I do not travel that much, but I still wish for a better NAV system. She mentioned to me that a harddrive Nav system is in the works and will be available ASAP. This sounds like may have to be mounted in the trunk but I'm just guessing. Anyway, this sounds like it may even be better than DVD.








I thought I would let you guys know of my what I just heard today. Meanwhile, I'm just loving my Phaeton!!!!
David


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (hmorse)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hmorse* »_ ...I often have others in my vehicle who need to participate in the conversation...

Well, here's some good news for you: All Phaetons are fitted with provision to have 4 microphones in the cabin roof, one at each outboard seating position. On my Phaeton (2004 W12), only the driver seat position actually has a functional microphone installed, the other three positions have a dummy insert that is visually identical to a microphone.
This suggests that you might be able to retrofit microphones to the other three seating positions in the future, once the basic phone installation gets sorted out.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (red5sp1.8T)*

Red:
Most interesting information about the lawsuit and the settlement - that explains many things that just "haven't seemed right" concerning the whole OnStar system. Thanks ever so much for posting it.
On a related matter, I met with some of the staff in Dresden today and asked for some help understanding the whole Bluetooth - OnStar - GPS business that we have all been struggling to comprehend. I learned quite a bit, here is a summary.
*1) Incorrect Assumptions we have all had about European Phaetons and Bluetooth capability* 
Many of us, myself included, have made incorrect assumptions about what is offered in Europe. It is true that you can purchase a Phaeton in Europe that has a Bluetooth capable phone, but: The phone still connects to the Phaeton using a cable. What the Bluetooth capability gives you is the ability to connect another Bluetooth capable device - for example, a headset - to the phone via Bluetooth RF. In other words, if you order a Phaeton in Europe with the Bluetooth phone option, you still have to plug your phone into a connector to hook it up to the antenna in the rear window glass, and to be able to make and receive calls using the infotainment system to control the phone (e.g. do the dialing, display caller ID on the infotainment system, list your address book entries on the screen between the speedometer and tachometer, etc.). But, you can give a Bluetooth headset to a rear seat passenger, and they can use it to talk on the phone.
2) The shark-fin antenna on the roof of North American Phaetons does contain both an analog cell phone antenna (that is used by the OnStar system) and a GPS antenna. But - the GPS antenna in the shark-fin component mounted on the roof is oply used by OnStar, not the navigation system . 
3) All Phaetons in the world use the on-glass GPS antenna that is part of the rear window of the car to receive the GPS satellite signals that are used by the navigation system.
4) The MCX connector in the storage compartment between the two front seats of North American Phaetons is connected to the on-glass cell phone antenna that is part of the rear window glass. This means that we (as North American Phaeton owners) can use this provision to hook up an aftermarket in-car cell phone system to our Phaetons.
There are still quite a few unanswered questions, but hopefully this information will help 'lift the fog' a bit concerning Bluetooth, cell phone fitment, and GPS antennas.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 3:40 PM 4-11-2005_


----------



## relliott (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael, 
So actually, the Phaeton doesn't have Bluetooth at all. The Bluetooth resides in the phone. Using this definition, we could say our cars were "Bluetooth" equipped if we were able to hook up a Bluetooth phone to the infotainment screen. 
Of course, this is not the definition that other cars use when they say their cars are Bluetooth equipped. They mean that Bluetooth is in the cars electronics and there are no cables to fool around. Kind of disappointing for the Phaeton. 
Ron


----------



## Juaser (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: (relliott)*

I guess no hope for the Touaregs either. Hey Mike, think your buddies in Dresden will know anything about the T-reg? Any type of proper phone setup would be great, but I suppose its going to have to be plugged in. If you could toss in those questions I'd appreciate it!


----------



## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (Juaser)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Juaser* »_I guess no hope for the Touaregs either. Hey Mike, think your buddies in Dresden will know anything about the T-reg? Any type of proper phone setup would be great, but I suppose its going to have to be plugged in. If you could toss in those questions I'd appreciate it!


our order guides show a phone integration "solution" for the Touareg coming this year.
I would guess it is similar the Phaeton "solution" for certain Nokia phones.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (relliott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *relliott* »_
Of course, this is not the definition that other cars use when they say their cars are Bluetooth equipped. They mean that Bluetooth is in the cars electronics and there are no cables to fool around. Kind of disappointing for the Phaeton. 

Hi Ron:
I hear what you are saying. It is my understanding that VW is working very hard on a Bluetooth offering that will provide true 'wireless' capability for the phone in the Phaeton - in other words, what we thought was provided all along. I think there is still some safety-related testing work to be done to ensure that the Bluetooth RF signal does not cause any interference with other computer systems in the Phaeton.
Though it is easy to forget, we have to keep in mind that a basic Phaeton manufactured in 2003 or 2004 has a more sophisticated on-board data network and more onboard computer controllers than an Airbus or Boeing aircraft manufactured in 1990. I'm not very familiar with computer and network technology in cars, but I do know what the issues are in aircraft, so I can appreciate why they are being so careful and thorough in the testing and development of the wireless phone system.
Michael


----------



## Juaser (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: (Corradodrvrfnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Corradodrvrfnd* »_
our order guides show a phone integration "solution" for the Touareg coming this year.
I would guess it is similar the Phaeton "solution" for certain Nokia phones.

Can you be specific about what you mean? Does it tell you what the solution is, or just that there is one? Will you let me know when you expect it (specific date). I live in Gtown and would gladly drop by to check out what VW has in mind. With the DC Cell phone laws I need this fix bad!


----------



## Tail Spin (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: (hmorse)*

Anyone have anyt pics of the Blue Tooth install?
I would love to see what it looks like.


----------



## Corradodrvrfnd (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: (Juaser)*

this is all the information I have :
Phone preparation – delayed introduction TBD TBD TBD


----------



## hmorse (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: (Tail Spin)*

I should be able to post photos by this weekend! I just saw the installation INCLUDING the XM Commander.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (hmorse)*

Hi All:
In the meantime, here is a picture of the basic _non-Bluetooth_ phone that is available in Phaetons in Europe. It is just a standard VW GSM phone, I think Nokia makes them for VW. It connects into the infotainment system, so it can be used entirely handsfree, using the microphone in the roof, and the little thumbwheel on the steering wheel to select the address book entry to dial, just like you select a CD track. If you wish, you can also pick up the handset and use it to dial, or use it as a conventional telephone handset if you want privacy.
Michael
*Basic European Phaeton Phone (factory installed)*


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (hmorse)*

Many thanks to Regan, the Phaeton sales wizard at Gunther Volkswagen in Plantation, FL, for the additional information about the 2005 Phaeton integrated phone system that he posted at this thread: Hooked up the integrated phone in a 2005 Phaeton.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Here is a link to another, older thread with some good information about cell phone systems and antennas in it: phone install anyone ?.
Michael


----------



## Jarfman (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (hmorse)*

I just had a conversation with Phaeton support. I have been calling every month since March when I took delivery. THey have consistantly told me that a cell phone solution was a "few weeks away". 
Until today! Now I am told that no solution is expected for the 2004! Then the Phaeton rep refereed me to VWvortex to search for an after market solution.
Does anyony have an integrated solution that works?


----------



## Jarfman (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (spockcat)*

hmorse.......Where are you located? I'm interested, I'm in NY


_Modified by Jarfman at 9:10 PM 12-28-2004_


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Jarfman)*

That is EXTREMELY disappointing news. I find it ridiculous that a car that has been prewired to some extent for a phone can't actually have the phone. They may have referred you to the forum for ideas, but I bet it won't be covered under warranty if the installer of some aftermarket idea screws up the car's interior trying to install the hardware. For now I guess I'll just have to get used to the $40 Nokia phone I bought for what I thought was a temporary idea














This alone will cause many prospective Phaeton buyers to walk away. This is insane. I have to believe their definitely a behind-the-scenes political - business reason that this is a problem. Their is no way that the reason is due to a compatibility issue with a phone out there on the market.


----------



## Jarfman (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (dcowan699)*

The Phaeton Rep stated that a solution will be available for the 2005 forword. They just stopped working on a 2004 solution. I cant imagine that there such a difference in the model year that allow the 2005 to work and not the 2004.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Jarfman)*

I hope you're right. Afterall, we that bought the first Phaeton's shouldn't be victims of this issue. Car phones have been around for many years. This is like not putting in an air bag. I still love the car, it's just that I can't believe they are taking so long simply providing a piece of hardware.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Jarfman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jarfman* »_ I can't imagine that there such a difference in the model year that allow the 2005 to work and not the 2004.

Sadly, there is such a difference. The 2005 North American Phaetons have an entirely different Infotainment module installed (the big screen in the center console). The engineers in Dresden explained this to me when we were discussing the North American phone problem during my visit to the assembly plant in November. As far as I know (this is speculation on my part) the 2004 Phaeton infotainment unit does not support the same degree of cell phone integration as the 2005 model does.
It might be possible to retrofit a VW spec phone to a 2004 Phaeton, but it would require quite a bit of research and innovation to accomplish that task, and I don't think the driver would have control of the phone through the infotainment unit. Sound through the speakers and use of the built-in microphone, perhaps, but not total integration.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:* Related topics - 
2005 Phaeton Integrated Cell Phone (this is by far the best thread to read so far as describing what you can get in North America on 2005 Phaetons is concerned)
The threads below discuss telephone equipment on 2004 and 2005 Phaetons that were not equipped with a complete cell phone system at the factory when they were built.
Telematics - How do I connect my cell phone to the Phaeton's built in cell phone antenna?
Telematics - What is the little wire in the box below the center armrest for?
....- additional discussion of the cell phone antenna connector


----------



## Nuclearguy (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (hmorse)*

There is an aspect of the phone hasn't been discussed as far as I know. The Onstar antenna is, I suspect, powered at 3W for US cars. The wiring diagram for telematics shows an amplifier built into the antenna for US Golfs and Jettas with telematics (my Bentley doesn't cover Phaeton). Also, Onstar claims to have a full 3W. What I am wondering is then, if it is indeed powered at the shark-fin, then maybe the telematics module is sending power up the cable. This may also be the case for the triplex antenna's phone cable. If so, it would be great news for folks looking to use the Phaeton or triplex antennas for phone use (at least for 800 MHzTDMA/AMPS) at 3W. It is my understanding that amplification for CDMA is modulated, and that GSM is generally non-amplified. Thus, it is not clear to me what to do for those formats, or for any systems not running around 800 MHz for that matter with these antennas. If one wants to run 3W for all the different cell frequencies then maybe it is better to just get a separate system for that. Thoughts?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Nuclearguy)*

Barry:
I'm not sure I understand everything you are getting at, so, I will tell you what I know from my experience with my Phaeton (present car) and my 2002 Golf (previous car).
- The OnStar system in the Phaeton is analog, not digital, and it does run at 3 watts.
- The other systems that you appear to be talking about (conventional North American cell phone systems) are almost all digital now.
- I did install a complete, OEM spec telematics system in my 2002 Golf, using parts I brought over from Europe, and it worked fine with my GSM phone here in North America. The triplex antenna for the Golf and Jetta IV is intended for use with 900/1800 GSM, but works just fine with 1900 GSM.
- I think if your intention is to use one of the other North American digital cell phone standards, other than GSM, you would be best off to use a conventional on-glass antenna.
- If you want to use an analog phone in your car, you could probably use the Phaeton shark-fin antenna for that. Years ago, I put an analog cell phone in my Golf III, I just drilled a hole in the roof and put a conventional roof-mount antenna up there. For city use, I had a very short mast, about 3 inches high and very inconspicuous. For use way out in the country, where the cell towers were 25 miles apart, I had a different mast, it was about 16 inches tall, pretty conspicuous I agree, but it got the job done when nothing else would work. It was a very quick job to switch masts, they just screwed off like the normal VW radio antenna.
Michael


----------



## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

As has been discussed in other posts, the analog AMPS cellphone system in North America is being shut down in 2-3 years so that the spectrum can be utilized for more modern digital systems. So I wouldn't waste any effort installing an analog phone in the Phaeton - of course this also means our analog-only OnStar system will soon be non-functional.
As for the Phaeton antennas, the shark fin antenna is ONLY for OnStar; there is a totally separate (unamplified) antenna built into the rear window that can be accessed via the cable that terminates inside your center console.
There would be no benefit to trying to run a digital phone through the amplified Onstar antenna system. CDMA phones (Verizon, Sprint) are intelligent enough to use only as much power as is needed to reach the cellular system base station, and you'd probably overload a GSM antenna signal (for Cingular, T-mobile) phones.
- Dave


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uberanalyst* »_...the analog AMPS cellphone system in North America is being shut down in 2-3 years so that the spectrum can be utilized for more modern digital systems.

Hi Dave:
Nothing to do with the Phaeton here, but do you think the AMPS system will actually be 'shut down', or is it more of a situation in which the service providers will no longer be required to support it? In rural areas of Canada - pretty much all of the Great Plains, outside of the urban centers - AMPS is still the only service that has the reach needed to provide coverage. It's economically impractical for the operators to provide digital service in such sparsely settled areas.
Michael


----------



## Nuclearguy (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

OK guys let me back up a little bit. First, what do we know? The Onstar antenna, in either the shark-fin or triplex versions is designed for 800 MHz AMPS. We have reason to believe that it is 3W. My question is this: Where is the amplification done, at the telematics control unit or at the antenna?
If the amplification is done at the antenna then one could run 800 MHz AMPS cellular through it and get 3W out, if one knew how to power the amplifier. If there is no amplifier at the antenna then you would be left with .6W coming from the phone which is still OK (or just put an amplifier upstream somewhere to get the 3W). The worst outcome is to send signal to an antenna through an amplifier that wants power but is not powered.
Absent more info, I would hesitate to use anything but 800 MHz in this case. Whether the 800 MHz from the phone is AMPS, TDMA, or CDMA probably doesn't matter. The way I understand it, and note that I am hardly an expert in this area, is that TDMA and AMPS can send 3W straight out. CDMA evidently modulates power, which is OK, since the modulation would be done at the phone anyway and any modulation of signal would pass through the amplifier and be corrected in turn taking amplification into account I would think. It may be OK to run 1900 MHz, I just don't know. If the antenna has a coil at its base - a definite "maybe" - then I would tend to think that the characteristics are rather broad frequency-wise and performance would be acceptable even at 1900. Not knowing for sure, the safe way to me is to stick with what we know, 800 MHz. Hopefully someone in the know will come along to explain what's going on here.
As an aside, I don't think that AMPS is going away anytime soon, even post 2008. It has too many advantages for rural areas. And when rural folk come to the city with AMPS, the cell people would always leave some AMPS room for them - they would be crazy not to. If I can't have service in both urban and rural areas, I'll cancel, and I'm sure that many others will follow suit. Yes, the system seems like a hodge-podge at first glance, but it works and it seems to satisfy everyones needs, rural and urban. So, I have accepted the nuances of each format. Just my $0.02. I am hardly winning any popularity contests with my "brick," but it works everywhere I go.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Nuclearguy)*

Hello Barry:
I'm not sure what you are getting at, but I just want to make a few points here that are specific to the Phaeton, so we don't unintentionally get any confusion on the part of those who own Phaetons.
1) The shark fin antenna on the roof is used for the OnStar system, this is a 3 watt analog cell phone system. The electronics associated with the OnStar phone system are in a module that is mounted underneath the hat shelf (the platform under the rear window of the car).
2) The on-glass antenna (invisible antenna) that is connected to the MCX connector in the armrest storage compartment between the two front seats is designed for use with an 900/1800 MHz digital cell phone. My guess is that on the 2005 North American Phaetons that are equipped with cell phones from the factory, either the rear window is different, with a cell phone antenna better suited to North American cell phone frequencies, or the rear window is the same, and some form of electronic component is used to adapt the existing cell phone antenna to the frequency used by the cell phone supplied with the car.
Michael


----------



## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Hi Dave:
Nothing to do with the Phaeton here, but do you think the AMPS system will actually be 'shut down', or is it more of a situation in which the service providers will no longer be required to support it? In rural areas of Canada - pretty much all of the Great Plains, outside of the urban centers - AMPS is still the only service that has the reach needed to provide coverage. It's economically impractical for the operators to provide digital service in such sparsely settled areas.
Michael

Michael:
I really can't speak for the Canadian cellphone system, but in the US the mobile operators have made it clear (and the Federal Communications Commision has approved) shutdown of the analog (AMPS) system by 2008. Digital systems have greater channel capacity, so the operators would love to repurpose their spectrum currently being used by analog systems.
The OnStar system in the US uses Verizon Wireless' AMPS system, so when it and the other analog systems go away, so will the analog version of OnStar used by our Phaetons.
Many rural cellphone systems are newer and thus digital only (such as in parts of Alaska) so our OnStar systems won't work there. Your question implied that the analog systems currently in use in rural Canada would have much greater range than digital systems. While the 3 watts used by analog handsets makes them more powerful than digital phones, what really matters is the signal-to-noise ratio and the ability of the phone to decode a signal. Digital phones get bettter reception vs. analog in decoding a usable signal, so they're suitable for rural areas.
Whether Canadian rural cellular operators choose to spend the money to upgrade from analog to digital is a different issue -- I'm not sure if they will be forced to migrate.
- Dave


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (spockcat)*

Hello
I just purchased a 2005 Phaeton 5 seater. I would like very much to have both a input for XM sat and an intergrated phone, can you help me?
Thanks GripperDon email is [email protected]


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:
Welcome to the Phaeton forum. There has been quite a bit of discussion about XM radio and Apple iPod (music player) installations lately - this thread is probably the best one to start reading:
PAC Aux-box or Aux-pod for Ipod _(note - if you see an underlined entry like this, just double-click on it to open that page up and read it)_
That link above leads to a recent 'success story' about an auxiliary music input. There are also quite a few links in that thread that will help you find closely related information.
We have a table of contents of useful past discussions, it is normally stuck to the top of the first page of the forum. Here is a clickable link that will take you directly to it: Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category). That thread consists of three posts. The first post at the top is mostly pre-purchase information, the second post after that is information that new owners need during the first month or two of ownership, and the third post down is primarily troubleshooting and technical reference material. You will probably find the telephone information - plus maybe some additional information about XM - in the second post on that page.
If, after reading those posts, you have any specific questions, by all means tag your question onto the appropriate discussion, and chances are, one of us will be able to help you out.
Again - welcome to the forum!
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 7:44 PM 5-20-2005_


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for the Welcome. I also own a 2005 Murano and am active on the Murano Board, Known as Mr. 3000 beacuse of my 3000 posts. Have not been active since I got the Phaeton. But I did install a PAC Niss unit for aux input of my Ipod and XM unit.on the Murano
Now I need to learn about how to do that for the Phaeton .
Thanks Again GripperDon










_Modified by GripperDon at 1:18 AM 5-21-2005_


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (GripperDon)*

Don,
I hate to give bad news but if you don't have a factory installed cell phone by VW, you just aren't gonna be able to get it. The retrofit is thousands of dollars and would not be practical at all. I have exhausted this topic for the last few months to no good answer outside of aftermarket varieties. Peter Savale has given me good advice and so did Harvey Morse in Florida. Harvey's installer seems to be my best option for aftermarket XM radio and phone installation as well as maybe other improvements. But for now, I just can't come up with the needed time and funds to justify it. I really hate phones but I need one more often than I would like to admit, but I really would like XM radio as I've exhausted my CD collection and I really don't buy music much anymore. I make music!!! I play in two bands and pretty much get enough of that anyway. XM radio is good for hearing a wide variety of music that otherwise I would never buy.


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (dcowan699)*

OK I'll go Parrot Ck3100 now where to get it installed or get the instruction so I can do it myself, would be nice if Sprint had a Bluetooh phone but I doubt it so I'll have to change carriers also. Advice? Anyone? Thanks Don


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (GripperDon)*

Sprint has a couple of bluetooth handsets now. The Treo 650 is bluetooth and the Treo 600 can accept a bluetooth "appendage". There are also one or two standard handsets that have bluetooth integrated, but I do not recall which ones.
Douglas


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (copernicus0001)*

Thanks Douglas,
Just got a e-mail back from sprint, the bluetooth phone are:
PalmOne Treo 650
Sprint PCS 6601
Sprint PCS by LG PM -325
In case anyone can use the info. Thanks Don


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (GripperDon)*

OEMpl.us & Michael
Need the pix from this thread for my cell phone prep write-up.
Eric


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Done


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Done

Michael
Thanks, for this and all the other threads. Detailed procedure in work.
Eric


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

My replication of the factory integrated cell phone option is fully functional. Detailed procedure and directions available in an e-mailable word file for whoever wants to do it again. I didn't post it because of the length (30+ pages) and a couple of considerations that will seriously limit the the number of folks that might want to do this. First, I'm certain it will only work for a model year where the integrated cell phone was an option, i.e., there is a "Phone" button on your console's Infotainment control panel. Second, the end cost was $1400. I did it for the engineering challenge and the desire for a fully integrated system.
Eric


----------



## ZOG (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Hi Eric- 
I'd love to check out your write-up on the phone install...can you please email me at teknotic (at) yahoo (dot) com? Thanks!
matt


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (ZOG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZOG* »_Hi Eric- 
I'd love to check out your write-up on the phone install...can you please email me at teknotic (at) yahoo (dot) com? Thanks!
matt

Will do.


----------



## vah (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

can you please send it to me as well.
[email protected]
i have the parrot, but would like to see if it can be done better, and nicer.


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (vah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vah* »_can you please send it to me as well.
[email protected]
i have the parrot, but would like to see if it can be done better, and nicer.

On its way.


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## phaeton1990 (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Hello Eric ,
Can you send me The information also regarding the cell phone installation. Iam very interested. My Email Is [email protected] mail.com.
Thanks so much
Omar


----------



## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Eric
I'd love to see this in action - you get up near Elkridge. Columbia, or Laurel MD at all? Perhaps we could GTG and I could see it?
Art


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (phaeton1990)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton1990* »_Hello Eric ,
Can you send me The information also regarding the cell phone installation. Iam very interested. My Email Is [email protected] mail.com.
Thanks so much
Omar

Sending.


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (ArtWarshaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ArtWarshaw* »_Eric
I'd love to see this in action - you get up near Elkridge. Columbia, or Laurel MD at all? Perhaps we could GTG and I could see it?
Art

Have a 11:00 meeting near BWI on the 15th. Should take a couple of hours. Could GTG around 1 PM.


----------



## PhirstVW (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Eric,
Could you please send to me too. [email protected]
Thanks,
Jim


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PhirstVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhirstVW* »_Eric,
Could you please send to me too. [email protected]
Thanks,
Jim

Done.


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## phaeton1990 (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Hello Eric,
Thank you very much for the phone replication pdf. Excellent work I must say. However, I have a 2006 phaeton and I do not have a mic in the over -head light bessel, on-star module nor a shark-fin antenna. Can you help me , maybe with a wiring diagram as to where I should connect the mic ( ie infotainment display or phone module) as well as where to get the constant, switched electrical power,grounding and CAN bus wires to both phone and diversity modules. I would very much would like to do the same thing. I appreciate your help .
Thanks 
Omar


----------



## paddyh (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Eric, could I get a copy of the intructions please - [email protected] gmail dot com
Patrick


----------



## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (phaeton1990)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton1990* »_Hello Eric,
Can you help me , maybe with a wiring diagram as to where I should connect the mic ( ie infotainment display or phone module) as well as where to get the constant, switched electrical power,grounding and CAN bus wires to both phone and diversity modules. 
Thanks 
Omar

Omar,
A lot more work, but could be done. I used the Bentley Phaeton Repair Manual wiring diagrams. You can get them at: http://www.bentleypublishers.com. There are three other modules on the trunk shelf where the cell phone modules go. Don't know what they are off the top of my head. You'll need to look in the repair manual or ask Michael. You could certainly tap into electrical power and ground there, and, maybe, the CAN bus there. The J412 Telephone Control Module pinouts for these functions are:
CAN High to pin 17
CAN Low to pin 8
Constant Power to pin 11
Switched Power to pin 10
Ground to pin 1
The J758 Switchover Control Module pinouts for these functions are:
Constant Power to pin 8
Switched power to pin 16
Ground to pin 7 

The speaker wires also go to the J412 Telephone Control Module:
Mic (+) to pin 18
Mic (-) to pin 9
You will also need to run wires between the J412 Module and the J523 Infotainment Module:
Speaker (+) J412 pin 16 to J523, 20 pin connector, pin 7
Speaker (-) J412 pin 7 to J523, 20 pin connector, pin 12
And a wire from the J758 to the J523:
Mute J758 pin 7 to J523, 8 pin connector, pin 2
Finally you'll need to run the antenna wire from the phone mount baseplate pigtail to the integrated antenna located at the top of the rear window behind the ceiling moulding. This is where it would normally connect. Access to the antenna instructions are in the Bentley manual and there may be a thread somewhere in the forum that discusses how to, as well.
Good luck,
Eric


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (paddyh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paddyh* »_Eric, could I get a copy of the intructions please - [email protected] gmail dot com
Patrick

Sent


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (phaeton1990)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton1990* »_Hello Eric,
Can you help me , maybe with a wiring diagram as to where I should connect the mic ( ie infotainment display or phone module) as well as where to get the constant, switched electrical power,grounding and CAN bus wires to both phone and diversity modules. 
Thanks 
Omar

One additional item you didn't ask about. With no Telematics originally installed, there won't be the base bracket that also holds the J758 module, and that the bracket for the J412 attaches to. Parts manual diagrams earlier in this thread. The part number is: 3D0 035 205.
Eric


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## ramtor (Jan 1, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

can you please send a copy of the file for me mail at teploff dot eu 
thanks for hard work.


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (ramtor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ramtor* »_can you please send a copy of the file for me mail at teploff dot eu 
thanks for hard work. 

Sent


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Just met with Eric and saw first hand, the cell phone integrated into the infotainment unit. 
I have to say, it was everything I'd hoped for as far as the phone functionality. You can look at text messages on the infotainment screen. We even made a call to the phone while it was out of the car and then plugged it in to the infotainment system to see if it would continue the call. It did, and was a seamless transfer. 
Very nice piece of work. 
Now the only remaining question for me, is there a phone that will allow you to send and receive e-mail from this generation of phones?
Thanks a lot to Eric for the personal visit!!


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (Fighterguy)*

Hello Eric,
Congratulations on your successful phone integration.








My car already has the integrated phone option, including the cradle in the armrest. However, when I bought the car it didn't have the compatible Nokia phone that it was designed for and I haven't bothered to get one, since I really don't want to have a second cell phone. 
I have a cellphone with bluetooth, and my hope has always been that there would eventually be some neat and easy way for it to integrate via a bluetooth connection with the existing integrated phone system in my car. Do you think that your technique might apply to my situation?
Thanks for your time, and I look forward to your reply.


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (ArtWarshaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ArtWarshaw* »_J
Now the only remaining question for me, is there a phone that will allow you to send and receive e-mail from this generation of phones?


Art,
Yes, there is and you can. From Nokia 6340i User Guide, p.79, "You can send e-mail up to 160 characters in length to anyone with an e-mail address." In the Guide, e-mail is treated as just another form of text messaging. The 6340i is the phone I have that you saw perform.
Eric


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_
I have a cellphone with bluetooth, and my hope has always been that there would eventually be some neat and easy way for it to integrate via a bluetooth connection with the existing integrated phone system in my car. Do you think that your technique might apply to my situation?


All I did was replicate the capability you already have installed in your car. I'm convinced that nothing more is possible to the layman because all functionality is due to the computer coding in the J523 Infotainment module and this coding is unchangeable (unless you are a major geek who can hack into it, decipher it, and do a rewrite). By code, I don't mean the simple six digit number changing you can do with a VAG-COM. I'm talking about the thousands of line of computer code in its memory that cause the module to function as it does. 
I think what you probably really mean by not wanting a second cell phone is that you don't want a second account with a second number. If US wireless carriers would allow more than one phone to use the same number, as they do in Europe, THAT might solve your problem. I tried with AT&T, and they won't. The compatible Nokia phones use GSM signals, and AT&T and T-Mobile are the only major US carriers to use GSM. I haven't tried, but if you could find some small carrier, using GSM, that was willing to let you have more than one phone for the same number, I'd like to know about it, too.
Eric


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## ZOG (Apr 5, 2008)

*Different route to phone...*

Fighterguy- thanks for the write-up! It is clear you have put an insane amount of time and effort into this, which I can't possibly see my successfully duplicating. Since I also want to add satellite radio & ipod fuctionality as well, I'm thinking of a different route and wondering if anyone has tried any of these solutions:
Kenwood Kos-v1000 'Car Portal', which enables you to add all kinds of modules including bluetooth.
Alpine VPA-B222 'Vehicle Hub', same thing by Alpine
both units will enable calls and the other accessory functions to be displayed through the factory nav screen, they require an additional connection by NAV-TV or other brand of aftermarket TV to Nav harness (also has anyone tried out any of these video interface input harnesses?).


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## ron kramer (Apr 16, 2007)

I've installed a backup camera which caused three pages of computer faults which had to be attended to.


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## ZOG (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (ron kramer)*

Hi Ron-
May I ask what kind/brand of video interface you were using...as I'd obviously want to avoid this. You had this hooked up through the nav screen?


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## phaeton1990 (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (ron kramer)*

Hello Ron,
Can you please tell me what kind of video interface you used, as i am in the process of installing one.
thanks
Omar


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## ron kramer (Apr 16, 2007)

*Re: (phaeton1990)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton1990* »_Hello Ron,
Can you please tell me what kind of video interface you used, as i am in the process of installing one.
thanks
Omar


Model:
GNET_RGB2_PHAETON
$429 USD 


Optional CAMERA3 Backup Camera 
$149 USD 


Dealers: Call For Dealer Pricing Or Apply Online To Become A G-NET Dealer


Vehicle Compatibility:
Bentley Continental GT (2004-2006) 
Bentley Continental Flying Spur (2004-2006) 
VW Phaeton (2004-2006) 

http://www.gnetcanada.com/



_Modified by ron kramer at 4:30 PM 5-22-2008_


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## phaeton1990 (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: (ron kramer)*

Thanks for the reply. I already purchased the same interface , but never had a chance of installing it. The install instruction seems simple. I would appreciate a little more input on what went wrong. i.e is it the camera that caused the error codes or the interface itself? How was the error codes resolved? And finally was the video interface functional or you had to remove it from the system? 
Thanks again
Omar


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton1990)*

*Archival Note:* Related post - Integrated Cell Phone Retrofit - DONE!!


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

For those of you interested in the VW bluetooth adapter experiment (unsuccessful thus far) for Phaetons with factory phone set-up check out this post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=3


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## HunterST (Dec 11, 2008)

*Re: (phaeton1990)*

Omar and/or Ron,
I'm thinking about getting the aforementioned backup camera kit from G-Net Canada. 
Before I pull the trigger, can either/both of you (or anyone else) answer some questions?
1) Did you use a flush-mount or surface-mount camera? Assuming you didn't drill (ghasp) a hole in your trunk lid, where did you mount the camera?
2) Does it automatically switch to/from the camera when the car is put in reverse?
3) Any computer / error code issues and solutions?
4) Any other caveats?
Thanks!


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
In the photograph at the beginning of this thread, there is a feature I noticed that is not not seen on my 12 channel radio. It is the "RDS Run,text" softkey on the right. Is this something that can be activated via VAG-COM? My infotainment unit was replced prior to me acquiring the car, so I am wondering if it was not coded correctly. I also notice that my infotainment unit has the phone button which this does not.
Thanks,
George


_Modified by oldham4 at 1:01 PM 2-1-2009_


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## HunterST (Dec 11, 2008)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (oldham4)*

George,
That topic is discussed in detail in this forum: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1751837. 
Dan


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cell Phone Update (oldham4)*

Hi George:
Display of RDS information (more accurately called RBDS in North America) is not supported by the North American Phaetons. This function is supported in Europe.
There is a lack of standardization in the implementation of RBDS in North America (this a result of a lack of standards enforcement by the FCC), and this has caused VW and other car manufacturers a lot of grief in the past. As a result, very few European car manufacturers enabled the RBDS function on vehicles that they exported to NAR.
As a result of a programming oversight, the soft-key to turn RDS (the European function) on and off was left active on NAR Phaeton J523s with software versions 188 and lower. This oversight was corrected at software version 220 after we (the Vortex Phaeton forum gang) brought it to the attention of the engineers in Dresden. That soft-key no longer appears in later production vehicles.
I have a European spec J523 in my NAR Phaeton (this to enable me to use the television reception function), but because of technical differences between the implementation of RDS and RBDS, I don't get extended RBDS information reception here in North America. All I get is the 8 character station code, which is supposed to be a static (non-dynamic) transmission, but is often fudged into a dynamic message (in contravention of the RBDS specification) by radio stations in North America.
For more information: RBDS Standard and RDS/RBDS Comparison and also Sound System - Why don't I see dynamic updating of RDS/RBDS text? 
Michael


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## Sarmale89 (Dec 15, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> 12 Channel radio wiring diagram (number 35) is attached below. It is a 572 kb file. Double click to open it, right click and choose "Save Target As" to save it to your computer.
> *Archival Note:* To determine if your Phaeton has a 12 channel sound system, press the 'AUDIO' button, and look for a 'DSP' softkey in the upper left corner. If this softkey is present, you have a 12 channel sound system, and need wiring diagram 35. If you see the word 'LOUDNESS' in the upper left corner, then you have an 8 channel sound system, and need wiring diagram 34. The telematics diagram is the same for either sound system fitment.
> Michael
> *How to identify a 12 channel sound system*
> ...


 Michael, 

I don't see where I can download the 12-channel wiring diagram (or any attached file on this thread or any other thread for that matter). Am i not looking in the right place or have the files been removed from the posts? 

Bobby


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## Bladerunnertm (Feb 15, 2011)

PanEuropean said:


> 12 Channel radio wiring diagram (number 35) is attached below. It is a 572 kb file.


Sorry I can't see the link to the attachment, is it missing?


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Sarmale89 said:


> I don't see where I can download the 12-channel wiring diagram


Hi Bobby
Upgrading-Phaeton-Navi-to-new-RNS-810, post #26 contains pin connections of the J523.

Willem


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

For the record, here is the pinout diagram for the OnStar systems that were installed in MY 2004 and 2005 North American Phaetons:


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

spockcat said:


> I believe I can offer a kit to do this and the XM input. I even purchased the connector for the back of the radio. I'm just waiting for a local Phaeton owner to show up.


Hi spockcat!
Wiken from Sweden here.
where did you get hold of the connector?
I have searched the internet, but no luck.
I have not found any good sites for Phaeton parts yet.
\Best regards


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