# Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan



## [email protected] (Feb 18, 1999)

CHICAGO - Volkswagen of America today unveiled the Routan, an all new seven-passenger minivan. It delivers the best of both worlds: a vehicle that combines European sensibilities in design, fit and finish, and handling characteristics with market relevant features and outstanding value....
* Full Story *



_Modified by [email protected] at 1:44 PM 2-6-2008_


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## alvint_vw (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Finally!


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## jaegervw2 (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (alvint_vw)*

Welcome to America....
too bad america is stuck in the 90's... and loves Minivans, suv and pick-up trucks.... all cars that are awful.....IMO
But that being a fact, welcome to the rat race VW! Good Luck!


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

the front seems to be heavy on the Tiguan.
the tails, don't look right.... not proportioned too well.
the dash???? Wish there was more VW influence in the design.


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## veedubmac (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*

What a shame VW, what a shame!!! I was expecting so much more--- at least use the new RNS510, Climatronic etc. There is way to much Chrysler influence on this one. But if I had to buy a minivan, this would still be it, because in the end it would still be a VeeDub parked in my driveway


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## Pizza Cat (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (veedubmac)*

this is going to be such a flop. it looks nice for a minivan, but no vw interior (like the initial reports said there would be), and two chrysler engines...there is no incentive to buying this over a chrysler town and country.


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## spdfrk (Dec 28, 2002)

WOW!!!! How many times can VW miss the boat in one century. They should rename it the VW caravanagon. No matter how you look at it, its still a Chrysler


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (spdfrk)*

OMG this car is ugly http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: (Fantomasz)*

Holy HONDA
















http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Buran (Apr 21, 2000)

Paging Burt...


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## ajz9415 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

as someone who will need a mini van in the next month When can I have one. I know it's a chrysler but because I am looking at the town & country and the honda Odysey I would rather have the VW
as long as same price at the Town & Country 42k ish I am in


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## duncangtifreak (Feb 6, 2008)

This is the worst idea in automotive history. VW is introducing a product no one wants, no one will buy, and will do more damage to their brand than any VW product in history. They simply don't get it. I try to convince people all the time that VW still equals affordable european enthusiasts cars, but the company just insists on proving me wrong. 
What will the VW enthusiast community do when decisions like these doom the company/brand in America? It'll happen...sooner than we think.


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## captaingomes (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (ajz9415)*

The Chrysler version looks better than this VW redo. The interior does not incorporate enough VW design elements. More importantly, I know for manufacturing reasons they need to use the Chrysler engines, but it would be very nice to see a V6 TDI version at the very least.
In a way, I hope this project works for VW, because they need to reverse their fortunes here in North America. On the other hand, this is not the sort of product that I want to see in VW's next revival. VW needs to go back to the late 90's when the B5 Passat came out, and the New Beetle, MKIV Golf and Jetta. This revival started out amazingly well for VW. They had the design language down pat, and the cars were mostly fantastic for their categories. The big let-down was the reliability. Had they not screwed that up, VW would be in a far better position today, and they would not be faced with needing to rethink their strategy over and over again in North America.


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## Blue Turbo (May 11, 2006)

Noooooo.......


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## cool_gti_guy91 (Nov 13, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (captaingomes)*

Im not into it. I dont like all the MOPAR influance.


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## Sharpix (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (cool_gti_guy91)*

It somewhat looks like a Volkswagen but the **** its just unacceptable.
Those engines are lame awful pity and a ****ing shame. How come having an engine with 3.2L liter resorted to use a 3.8L with ratings on par of a two wheeled tricycle... They might have pushed into doing something better, not this POS.
Honestly, this is more mistake than a Phaeton.


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## Yellow Rabbit (Jan 29, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (Sharpix)*

How lazy our our kids getting that we have to drive them into the outfield?


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

I guess I'm one of the few that actually likes it. My personal opinion is that if VW had designed a vehicle like this from the ground up, it likely wouldn't look that different from this...(microbus notwithstanding).
As for the interior, it's modern, clean and contemporary. I also think that I would very happily trade in my 99 Odyssey for this one as long as it had the 4.0 litre which from what I've read, is a very nice modern powerplant.
Overall, I like the end product, and families like mine will, I think, at least put it on their shopping list.


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## g60_corrado_91 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (Rabbit5GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbit5GTI* »_this is going to be such a flop. it looks nice for a minivan, but no vw interior (like the initial reports said there would be), and two chrysler engines...there is no incentive to buying this over a chrysler town and country.









I was gonna say, since when does VW make a 3.8L with only 197hp and a 4.0L V6? Figures. I'm all for pushrod engines, as long as they're Chevy small block V8's. 
But a pushrod V6 in a VW? I don't see this car selling very well, especially when you look at how good the Honda is. The 3.8L engine is ancient.








Also, I think the editing was off. They said the navigation system had 20 megs of hard drive space. Did you mean 20 gigs?
Edit: I'm not 100% sure if the 4.0L V6 is a pushrod engine or not. I'm almost positive the 3.8L is though.


_Modified by g60_corrado_91 at 5:59 PM 2-6-2008_


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## Rage In The Machines (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

The black one doesn't look half bad, but the question of not using VW power plants does not sit well with me. Now, if they installed a "Hemi" maybe I would change my mind.










_Modified by Rage In The Machines at 4:24 PM 2-6-2008_


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## 2 doors (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: (g60_corrado_91)*

I certainly don't blame VW for taking this approach to a minivan. the Caravan and T&C are getting reviewed well, so I think this one will be OK. Piggybacking on Chrysler certainly lowers the risk for VW. I like the overall look much better than the MOPAR vans. I do wish they could have figured out a way to fit the Passat 3.6L VR6 in there though.
My biggest pet peeve will be if they class it like a "luxury" minivan. If captains chairs in the 2nd row and a power liftgate are standard, no thanks. I see this following in the T-reg footsteps - a good vehicle, just too pricey for mass consumption. I like the T-reg, but I can get a Jeep Grand Cherokee for less. Same with this, I can just buy a Dodge.


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## g60_corrado_91 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (Rage In The Machines)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rage In The Machines* »_Now, if they installed a "Hemi" maybe I would change my mind.









_Modified by Rage In The Machines at 4:24 PM 2-6-2008_

We'll just have them throw in the 6.1L SRT-8 Hemi engine in there for grins.


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## DieselME (Aug 31, 2004)

Thank goodness I don't have a spoon here at the desk or i'd be plucking out my eyes
Oh VW...the pain!, the pain!


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## redneckdzl (Jun 26, 2007)

Where's the diesel??????


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## ZippinVeeDub (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: (redneckdzl)*









u fail vwoa


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## dubious311 (May 1, 2003)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Oh man this is the biggest let down volkswagen has done. Volkswagen finally brings back a minivan they give us this monstrosity instead of building something based off of this concept








Are you kidding me???


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## evilc76 (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (g60_corrado_91)*

It's probably a good van. Atleast VW teamed up with people that have been winning at the van game. Why is mom and dad mini-van driver going to buy the VW version however? I don't see what makes the VW van different from the Chrysler. If VW tries to price this higher than the equivalent Chrysler van, this thing will fail. 
Waiting for the air cooled guys to show up and tell us that it's been all downhill for VW vans after they stopped making the split....










_Modified by evilc76 at 8:02 PM 2-6-2008_


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## gti dreamn (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (2 doors)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2 doors* »_I certainly don't blame VW for taking this approach to a minivan. the Caravan and T&C are getting reviewed well, so I think this one will be OK. Piggybacking on Chrysler certainly lowers the risk for VW. I like the overall look much better than the MOPAR vans. I do wish they could have figured out a way to fit the Passat 3.6L VR6 in there though.
My biggest pet peeve will be if they class it like a "luxury" minivan. If captains chairs in the 2nd row and a power liftgate are standard, no thanks. I see this following in the T-reg footsteps - a good vehicle, just too pricey for mass consumption. I like the T-reg, but I can get a Jeep Grand Cherokee for less. Same with this, I can just buy a Dodge.

I agree with a lot of the people above....too little, too late, and not even the right mix VW ingredients. What was wrong with the *Eurovan*???
Are there going to be Pkg 0, 1, 2, etc like the GTI and Jetta?
Will VW have a "Value Edition" because the Rubbish will be too expensive when options start making it on the vehicle?
4-Motion standard with the 4.0 VR (Is it a VR or a MOPAR engine) or will there even be a 4-Motion option and will it even be 4-Motion or Chrysler's take on AWD???
I can't begin to list all of the areas in which the new VW Rubbish (aka Routan) fails. More power to the folks that will / would like to purchase one, but by doing so only reinforces the horrible decision VAG has done.
If it makes it to a refresh...maybe VW can address the lacking of VW design cues.
I'm sorry - 2 thumbs down --- http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
The sad thing is, VW shows will have to add yet another category to judge if any Rubbish show up.







Yes, I am very bitter about this thing. It is as if VW stooped to a new low.


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## vw93to85 (May 10, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

This is a disgrace to all VW's everywhere! I'm disgusted. It's just not right.


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## dommerdog (May 24, 2000)

*Re: (g60_corrado_91)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g60_corrado_91* »_
Edit: I'm not 100% sure if the 4.0L V6 is a pushrod engine or not. I'm almost positive the 3.8L is though.


4.0L is a multivalve design, 3.8L is good old American pushrods... has VW even had a pushrod engine (or Cam-in-block as GM calls it)??


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## g60_corrado_91 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (dommerdog)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dommerdog* »_
4.0L is a multivalve design, 3.8L is good old American pushrods... has VW even had a pushrod engine (or Cam-in-block as GM calls it)??

I'm not even sure. Maybe in the aircooled days. Those were boxter 4's weren't they, in the Karma GIA (sp?), Beetle, Thing, etc?
Yes, may be called a "cam in block," but how many engines have 650hp from the factory with a pushrod. GM deserves respect. I read a comparison, maybe it was Car and Driver, where it costs over $50k to make a 6.2L AMG motor, and less than 20k to make the LS7 from the ZO6. Similar horsepower and torque figures, completely different build up.
Anyhow, I'm way off topic.


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## Yellow Rabbit (Jan 29, 2000)

*Re: (dommerdog)*

VW boxer engines had push rods.


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## g60_corrado_91 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (Yellow Rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yellow Rabbit* »_VW boxer engines had push rods.

There you go. But they haven't made a pushrod in quite a few years. 1.8L 8v was not a pushrod, and as far as I know, nothing after that was either. Not sure about TDI's.


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## D Clymer (Feb 18, 1999)

*Re: (dommerdog)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dommerdog* »_
4.0L is a multivalve design, 3.8L is good old American pushrods... has VW even had a pushrod engine (or Cam-in-block as GM calls it)??

Yes, they have. The good old Vanagon that we all love so much has an engine with pushrods. For that matter, so did the T1 and T2. And so do the LS1 and LS2 engines in the Corvette. There's nothing wrong with pushrods as long as you're not trying to make a 6500 + rpm engine.
I don't love the Routan, but I think it will sell. WIth a base price below $24K and styling that is better than the Chrysler it's based on and the Toyota Sienna, there should be some buyers. The refinement and solidity of the new Chrysler vans is on par with the Honda and Toyota. The performance of the 4.0 V6 model is quite strong - 0-60 in 8 seconds according to a recent Car and Driver test of the Chrysler. 
It may not be the second coming of the Microbus, or an alternative to the Eurovan, but it wasn't intended to be. I'm just glad VW finally has an entry into the people mover market here in the USA.


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## veedubmac (Sep 24, 2007)

I think it has to much Crysler in it, like I said earlier. BUT it still is a VW and my VW pride would make me buy one if I was in the market for a van.


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## ithacar (Aug 4, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

reminds me of when Honda wanted to jump in the market and went badge engineering with Isuzu for their Passport...Honda owners never bought the idea of it being a Honda...wonder if VW owners will?..the badge is pretty strong with VW folk.


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## mauslick (Aug 9, 2000)

*Re: (veedubmac)*

built in a chrysler plant, with chrysler engine and trans.......looks like a honda (front) toyota (back) and gas is going to hit 4 dollars a gallon probably sooner than later.. ............and no established competition in that segment
but you do get a VW badge and the legendary VW service
and they won't bring the touran over............why ? because is makes sense.. what's that other convertable they sent over....it was a huge hit also.........
wasn't ROTAN an advisary of GODZILLA?


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## mogale (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (ithacar)*

I need more VW inside, and what's with the antenna on the fender and the roof? Also guages better be blue and red or it's toast!
How about the 2.0 and the 3.6? Seems like we cut corners in the wrong places.
I own a Odyssey (2006). 
If VW has the build quality of VW in the new van, I might be able to overlook the other problems, but continuous seam welding and superior sheet metal of the current VWs better be present. I'm not buying another piece of tin without the superior ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes of Every VW and the superior ESP of VW. 
I feel safer in my rabbit than in my odyssey, and the Honda is the best van in the market today


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## R32Rich (Jun 13, 2004)

*Re: (D Clymer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Clymer* »_
Yes, they have. The good old Vanagon that we all love so much has an engine with pushrods. For that matter, so did the T1 and T2. And so do the LS1 and LS2 engines in the Corvette. There's nothing wrong with pushrods as long as you're not trying to make a 6500 + rpm engine.


I routinely ran my drag Bug to 9500 with good old fashion push rods. Sure, the push rods were 3/8 chromemoly with dual Chevy valve springs, but you build it strong a right you can do anything. Nascar stock cars consistanly turn 9 grand.

I wouldn't buy this minivan based soley on VW's crapping dealer network. Chrysler/Dodge has far more dealers and the ones I have dealt with are top notch. Parts in stock - what a concept, and good service. VW knows of no such things.


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## 83Caddy16v (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Honda took the Isuzu Trooper and put a Honda badge on it and today we now have the Honda only Pilot. Maybe this is VW's tactic. I personally think they should have went for a bold statement with a design along the lines of the Microbus but we are here with the Routan:
*3.8L 6cyl only puts out 197hp?*
Have the VW product planners driven this minivan with eight passengers and cargo? We have a 2005 Honda Odyssey and love the 6cyl in it - the cylinder shut off helps us get 26mpg on the highway. The lack of non-traditional VW drivetrains is disappointing. But it has 50 more hp.
How about a V6 TDI? - some innovation in this product segment would be very welcome. 
*Interior*
I do like the spin around seats that Chrysler offers for the second row, as well as a third row LCD screen. This can really help families and friends pass the time on long trips. The Routan's NAVi looks added on and not well integrated into the dash. 
While power folding 3rd row is nice, having to remove the second row is a PITA. The third row in the Honda is a snap to fold flat in a couple seconds without power but the second row also needs to be physically removed. 








This one looks better than the white one:








Overall, IMHO, this looks like a collaboration product that has some nice pieces but on the whole is not well integrated and looks as if the product engineers were given a 90% solution and were allowed to make 10% adjustments to give it the VW branding/touches. This assessment is based on the photos - I could easily have a different perspective once seen in person.
Depending on how the pricing falls will determine how well it sells as compared to Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Chrysler T&C, and Mazda. Honda and Toyota have had a corner on the $40k minivans and it will be interesting to see how the T&C and high-end Routan sell compared to those two.
Once you get past the stigma, minvans are very practical and great when the inlaws are in town and you want to take just one vehicle. The Honda Ody is a pretty snappy/quick minivan. Enthusiasts may like the Ody. for its performance. We have just about 50k miles on our '05 and no significant issues (knock on wood). 
I'm always looking for a good excuse get rid of our Honda and I had high hopes for VW's minivan offering but this one, on the initial look, does not have anything overly compelling versus an '05-'08 Honda Ody or even an '05-'08 Sienna. 
my 1/2 cent.




_Modified by 83Caddy16v at 9:21 PM 2-6-2008_


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## haunted reality (Apr 18, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (ajz9415)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ajz9415* »_as someone who will need a mini van in the next month When can I have one. I know it's a chrysler but because I am looking at the town & country and the honda Odysey I would rather have the VW
as long as same price at the Town & Country 42k ish I am in

42kish for a minivan, holy cr*p, I'm out of touch! I'm expecting my first child a few more months, but the wifey and I have our hopes on the Tiggy rather than the Routan, just my opinion. If i had to get a minivan though, I'd consider the Routan, I actually sort of like the Chrysler vans anyway.


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## a2gtinut (Dec 2, 1999)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (haunted reality)*

VOA must be jocking with this.
Chrysler parts bin http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Yellow Rabbit (Jan 29, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

It does have more cup holders than my 3 VW's combined.
If I were in the market, I'd drive it. However, if it doesn't have the lifetime powertrain warranty, I'd buy the Chrysler instead. 
I really like the orange color they are showing at VW's site. 


_Modified by Yellow Rabbit at 8:55 PM 2-6-2008_


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (Yellow Rabbit)*

Way too much Chrysler and not enough VW. Of the three (Chrysler, Dodge and VW), the VW looks the best. However, there's no hiding the fact that this is a Chrysler product through and through. It's the powertrain options that particularly concern me. Anyone ever driven a Chrysler/Dodge minivan? I do on a regular basis for work and wow, talk about a crappy engine/tranny combo.


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## a2gtinut (Dec 2, 1999)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (Pelican18TQA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pelican18TQA4* »_Way too much Chrysler and not enough VW. Of the three (Chrysler, Dodge and VW), the VW looks the best. However, there's no hiding the fact that this is a Chrysler product through and through. It's the powertrain options that particularly concern me. Anyone ever driven a Chrysler/Dodge minivan? I do on a regular basis for work and wow, talk about a crappy engine/tranny combo.

you are correct sir.
some of their engines are ok but....
I was hoping that VW would use own powertrain.
I hope this will not follow Pacifica.
I wonder who will service these cars?


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (a2gtinut)*

I'm sure the VW techs will love working on the Chrysler junk. I do admit though, if VW had to choose a minivan partner, they picked the right one. Chrysler developed this segment and has long been a leader.


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

It is a shame that VW forced themselves into making this compromise.
It was obvious when the B5 Audi/Passat was developed that they needed a car platform based minivan, and that was a golden opportunity to get into the game.
Then the Microbus debacle - very hard to meet crash standards, and VW unions trying to force it to be built on T5 platform.
I understand why they did this, but it is a shame.
I am in my mid 30s with two kids, and probably the demographic they want for this car. If I were minivan shopping I would be looking at Hondas and Toyotas.
BTW - good point on the power train warranty. Being the same van, why would anyone not just buy the Chrysler brands and get the lifetime warranty?


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## autoxdriver (Feb 12, 2005)

Being an enthusiast with a VW weekend toy, but regularly needing to haul 2 baby seats and 3 adults, this would have been a way better item to stick in my driveway then a GMC Acadia. 
I didn't like the boxy look of the new Chrysler and Dodge minivans. And I thought the Acadia's 3rd row, and cargo room was going to be enough... well they weren't. 
See you VW Dealer when my lease is up.


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## amerikanzero (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

well there go the days when i could be proud of the fact that VW didn't offer a minivan in the US.


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## ajz9415 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: (autoxdriver)*

I would think Vw will eventually use there own power plants. I would prefer a V6 TDI or at least the 3.6 FSI but hell we can't have it all. BTW Vw how about a VEMI 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (chois)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chois* »_BTW - good point on the power train warranty. Being the same van, why would anyone not just buy the Chrysler brands and get the lifetime warranty?

The lifetime powertrain warranty is a gimmick. Statistically, the average car buyer gets a new car every three years. The lifetime warranty isn't transferrable. Also, it's not in C/J/D's interest to keep people in their vehicle for a "lifetime" because that leads to decreased sales. The lifetime powertrain warranty is a marketing statement and encourages confidence in the manufacturer by the consumer. This is the same thing with Hyundai and Kia's 100,000 mile powertrain warranties (which VW actually started with the MkIII anyway!)


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## zuma (Jul 30, 2006)

wow!!holy mixed feelings! I understand why VW did this - financial, market share etc. and as a VW customer i really hope this bring in a lot of money for them, BUT this is one of the few times i felt embarrassment as a VW owner. This is a monstrosity of an (probably) expensive Chrysler T&C! I can't imagine VW pricing it below the Chrysler versions so the question is ---- will you buy this for the BADGE alone??? 
BTW LOL at the VEMI!


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## zuma (Jul 30, 2006)

http://www.vw.com/routan/gallery/en/us/#/all/1
OH GOOD LORD! a Fahrenheit edition!


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## Talareno (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (zuma)*

If I was in the market for a Chrysler minivan I'd consider this for a brief moment & then I'd come to my senses. Chrysler reliability coupled with VW service, a truly lethal combination. I can just see the product planners/management coming up w/ this:
-We need a minivan.
-We're too cheap & too lazy to design one though & aren't that committed to the American market.
-I know let's get that "American" car company that's always had the least well-engineered products because of their scarcity of engineering resources.
-And they're desperate too.
-It will be a hit because most of the buyers won't have a clue that they're really buying a Chrysler...at first anyway.
-Let's give ourselves big bonuses for this brilliant idea.


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## DazMR2 (Jul 30, 2007)

*Re:*

I will take a look at the Routan at the Chicago Auto Show, but I can't see it replacing the family '05 Odyssey.
From the pictures I've seen, I can't see where the VW interior starts and the Chrysler one finishes. Apart from the satnav and the vents in the center stack, everything else is pure Chrysler, including the dials and even the steering wheel.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Re: (DazMR2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DazMR2* »_I will take a look at the Routan at the Chicago Auto Show, but I can't see it replacing the family '05 Odyssey.
From the pictures I've seen, I can't see where the VW interior starts and the Chrysler one finishes. Apart from the satnav and the vents in the center stack, everything else is pure Chrysler, including the dials and even the steering wheel.



the Mygig Nav is chrysler also


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## alextakesphotos (Dec 6, 2006)

*Re: Re: (GT17V)*

just a dodge caravan with VW emblems


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## zuma (Jul 30, 2006)

*Re: Re: (alexl0k0)*

you guys think this will come with a SPORT package as well? Maybe we can get a nice VOTEX bodykit for the thing!


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: Re: (DazMR2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DazMR2* »_I will take a look at the Routan at the Chicago Auto Show, but I can't see it replacing the family '05 Odyssey.
From the pictures I've seen, I can't see where the VW interior starts and the Chrysler one finishes. Apart from the satnav and the vents in the center stack, everything else is pure Chrysler, including the dials and even the steering wheel.

The Chrysler interior is disappointing. I hate the modern Chrysler gauges, and VW kept them as-is it seems, along with Chrysler controls, and even used a Chrysler sat nav. With the promotion of the RNS-510 at NAIAS, I was expecting it to be available across the VW lineup, but they couldn't even get it into the the Routan.


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## jackestes (Feb 7, 2008)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Very, very disappointed. I used to own a '95 Eurovan camper. I like the Dodge/Chrysler van okay but was expecting more from VW. In their press release they made it sound like the VW version would be a much improved van on the inside at least. I'm okay with the Chrysler powerplant. I did want full stow-n-go seaing and something like a Eurovan Weekender inside. Seating that made into a bed. Man VW could have hit an out-of-the park homerun with the concept bus from a few years ago. Instead we have a re-badged Chrysler. I could accept that but am very disappointed it's not even an improvement.


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## borapumpkin (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*


















































would it be too much to ask for another eurovan or a minibus? it's like vw is succumbing to the US influence on mediocrity in transportation. the van isn't that bad, but where is vw's sense of style and originality? i can't believe the new beetle (ingenious) and this come from the same mark, and within 10 years of one another. i wonder if vw just says- "yeah, we know this isn't the best move, but what the heck, we're vw and everyone will forgive us anyway." duh!


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

We'll see what happens when VW is going to build cars in the US again--- maybe they will develop a minivan in-house and be able to price it competitively. But that's probably going to be at least 6 or so years down the road


----------



## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Cool lower facade for soccer moms to drive into curbs in parking lots.. forget power train warranty does it have a good front end replacement plan?!


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (sys3175)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sys3175* »_Cool lower facade for soccer moms to drive into curbs in parking lots.. forget power train warranty does it have a good front end replacement plan?!

at least the front lower valence will clear crubs
good thing it's not truck based....Chrysler ball joints have a way of not lasting.


----------



## Buran (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: (redneckdzl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redneckdzl* »_Where's the diesel??????

Or the flex-fuel? Come ON, VW. The demand is there for alternative fuels and you can't even put an already-designed flex fuel engine in the thing? Or the flip-down seats that are a big draw for the Chrysler vans? Where's the captain's chairs? Oh, right, VW wants to charge a high price for a base model. Again.
A minivan is a good idea in the US market considering that's what people want here, but VW does its usual half-assed job in implementing it. Still no diesel or flex engine is pathetic in this day and age with global warming and energy costs becoming a huge concern.


_Modified by Buran at 12:16 AM 2-7-2008_


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (Buran)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Buran* »_
Or the flex-fuel? Come ON, VW. The demand is there for alternative fuels and you can't even put an already-designed flex fuel engine in the thing? Or the flip-down seats that are a big draw for the Chrysler vans? Where's the captain's chairs? Oh, right, VW wants to charge a high price for a base model. Again.
A minivan is a good idea in the US market considering that's what people want here, but VW does its usual half-assed job in implementing it. Still no diesel or flex engine is pathetic in this day and age with global warming and energy costs becoming a huge concern.

_Modified by Buran at 12:16 AM 2-7-2008_

People will still be complaining how weak the 3.3L motor is. So... right now, what is VW selling that is E85 compatible? When the TDIs come out... will VW still not support Biodiesel blends greater than 5%?








Looks like Stow-n-Go to me (note the front lids behind the front seats).








Looks like Captain Chairs to me


----------



## mekramer001 (Jun 30, 2004)

From the Motor Trend press release, 
"With VW's claims of a more Teutonic driving experience than the Town & Country at a comparable price, the Routan could enjoy reasonable success in the VW showrooms. Just don't be shocked by your dealer's dirty looks if you ask for Swivel 'N Go seating."
I guess the definition of "Teutonic driving experience" has dribbled its way down to putting the tach on the left instead of the right. 
Just in case VW hasn't insulted their faithful enough, the rear facing seats and table arrangement which made VW vans unique is only available on the Chrysler.
Attention VW product planners: Please line up and bend over- the Teutonic inspection experience is about to begin!


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (mekramer001)*

the Toyota Previa, with the captain's chairs were also capable of swiveling to face rearwards


----------



## movement (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (Yellow Rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yellow Rabbit* »_How lazy our our kids getting that we have to drive them into the outfield?

















HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!


----------



## MSTRKRFT (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*


----------



## Deserion (Jul 28, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (MSTRKRFT)*

Personally, I see the Routan as a short-term vehicle - stick around for a few years, drum up sales and put cash into the coffers. Get their "van" feet stable again, and make a unique people-hauler once more.
Bet the dealers will love having to purchase new tools and scanners for these things...








While nicer than a Chrysler, it still is.







Stop-gap measure, I think.


----------



## scotaku (Sep 3, 1999)

ding ding ding! No VAG-COM scanning for this vehicle.

I have to echo captaingomes, 2 doors, redneckdzl, 83Caddy16v, ajz9415, Buran, GT17V... WHERE ARE THE DIESELS?
For all the recent hype (and controversy) over Bluetec and Bluemotion VW has, almost beligerently, introduced two more otherwise sensible new cars *without* so much as plans for their newest diesel motors. It makes this guy wonder if VW only has faith in their technology to drive their car products. But I've been to Europe and have seen the diesels in the entire lineup. What gives, VW?
Like others I understand the cost savings of being able to bring a new model to the showrooms without having to invest the resources of a ground-up design. Kudos on partnering with Chrysler, I guess. They do build the best of breed. Did the contract specifically exclude your *proven* TDIs from the new vans? That adds up if Chrysler wanted to insulate their own vans from VWs version. But what a monumental missed opportunity... to my knowledge, I cannot think of a diesel minivan available in the US. And with the minivan segment already saturated, a diesel option would have been a sure-fire way to make the new van stand out in the crowd.


----------



## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (mekramer001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mekramer001* »_From the Motor Trend press release, 
"With VW's claims of a more Teutonic driving experience than the Town & Country at a comparable price, the Routan could enjoy reasonable success in the VW showrooms. Just don't be shocked by your dealer's dirty looks if you ask for Swivel 'N Go seating."
I guess the definition of "Teutonic driving experience" has dribbled its way down to putting the tach on the left instead of the right. 
Just in case VW hasn't insulted their faithful enough, the rear facing seats and table arrangement which made VW vans unique is only available on the Chrysler.
Attention VW product planners: Please line up and bend over- the Teutonic inspection experience is about to begin!


The tach's on the left in my R32







But the gauges are horrendous in general IMO. Heck, do they even have the signature violet/red backlighting? Are they even LED backlit?? I think that VW could've done a little more development work on at least the aesthetics to set this vehicle apart. It's looks 100% Chrysler, save for the VW badge, headlights and tail lights.


----------



## chois (May 12, 2000)

*Re: (Pelican18TQA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pelican18TQA4* »_
The lifetime powertrain warranty is a gimmick. Statistically, the average car buyer gets a new car every three years. The lifetime warranty isn't transferrable. Also, it's not in C/J/D's interest to keep people in their vehicle for a "lifetime" because that leads to decreased sales. The lifetime powertrain warranty is a marketing statement and encourages confidence in the manufacturer by the consumer. This is the same thing with Hyundai and Kia's 100,000 mile powertrain warranties (which VW actually started with the MkIII anyway!)

Well actually Chrysler started the long warrantys a decade before with the 6/60k program. I do think they are gimmicks for average buyers, but I also think you are more likely to cash in with a Chrysler power train than with a Hyundai one. I am one of those people that keeps cars for a long time, so they are pertinent to me.


----------



## VeeRsixx (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

I just jumped off a cliff.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
*X*
splat !


----------



## metalmash (Apr 14, 2005)

THIRTEEN CUP HOLDERS!!! OMG!!!


----------



## @McMike (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (g60_corrado_91)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g60_corrado_91* »_We'll just have them throw in the 6.1L SRT-8 Hemi engine in there for grins.









In the back.....


----------



## VWYankee (Jan 13, 2000)

I think one thing people need to realize, if you haven't already, is the news story from a few years ago talking about how VW and Chrysler were going to _put their heads together_ to come up with a new minivan they both could sell. It seems with the Chrysler being released first that the media and even most of the enthusiast world (for VW) is taking this as a Chrysler with a VW badge. We have to remember that VW was a big part of the whole thing before the Chrysler came out. So, there's more VW design in it than what is being stated. Heck, when I first saw the Chrysler my immediate thought was it looked like a VW (like a large Touran).
With that said, I too am disappointed that (at this point) there are a number of VW elements left out that really should be there. Most of all, as many have already griped about, the engines. They could have at least looked at putting the VW 3.6L with 280hp in that thing or even the tried and true 3.0L V6 for a base engine.
As at least one person said, perhaps it's just to get in the market again and once they have an American plant to build at things will start changing for the better with their own parts bins.


----------



## jimb (May 29, 2000)

I read that VW was hoping to sell 45,000 of these a year. All I can say is good luck, because I think that VWoA will have difficulty hitting this goal. Not because this is a bad minivan (now there is an oxymoron), but because there is nothing unique to draw buyers to this product. The minivan market is saturated with good products and has been shrinking as drivers switch to SUV's and crossovers. A diesel, Westfalia Edition, etc. might help, but the consumer is going to have the final say as to whether this product succeeds or not. 


_Modified by jimb at 7:50 AM 2-7-2008_


----------



## Mehr_PSI (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (chois)*

If you read the fine print about the warranty, it does not sound like a marketing tactic. If I purchase a minivan, I will be keeping it for a long time also.

_Quote, originally posted by *chois* »_
Well actually Chrysler started the long warrantys a decade before with the 6/60k program. I do think they are gimmicks for average buyers, but I also think you are more likely to cash in with a Chrysler power train than with a Hyundai one. I am one of those people that keeps cars for a long time, so they are pertinent to me.


----------



## Pizza Cat (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (Mehr_PSI)*

the old chyrlster warranty wasn't 6/60k, it was 7/70k








even though i already posted here, i still need to vent. no VR6 or diesel is so stupid it's not even funny. the chrysler motors are ok...but wait till that van hits 100k miles...it will take a crap faster than, well fat bastard.
i know from experience, the family had a dodge caravan back in the day, it was great until it just decided that one day it was over, and it seemed like everything wanted to crap out at once, even worse than a vw.


----------



## op3r8r (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Relax a little people. Do you really think that this van is targeting those of us who are interested in Volkswagens from a performance standpoint? and those of us who view vwvortex 10-100 times a day? Maybe and just maybe for a second vehicle but for the most part VW is trying to lure away those who are buying other vans out there or people who might be looking at a van. This is not geared to those interested in modifying their car or interested in performance. Relax a little, take a breath and let VW do their thang. Good luck to the Routan and if my wife wanted one.. I wouldn't mind LETTING her get it.


----------



## Pizza Cat (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (op3r8r)*

yes, you are right. most of the people who frequent here won't be in the market for a minivan. however, the people who are (if they have half a brain) will realize that there is no reason to buy this over the chrylser counterpart...no lifetime powertrain warranty, same engines, same interior, and it will cost more than the chrysler just because of the vw badging. volkswagen did nothing to set this apart in the least little bit. now it probably is just to get their feet wet, so a few years down the road they can produce one in-house again, but if it fails miserably, vw might just scrap the whole plan...

_Quote, originally posted by *op3r8r* »_Relax a little people. Do you really think that this van is targeting those of us who are interested in Volkswagens from a performance standpoint? and those of us who view vwvortex 10-100 times a day? Maybe and just maybe for a second vehicle but for the most part VW is trying to lure away those who are buying other vans out there or people who might be looking at a van. This is not geared to those interested in modifying their car or interested in performance. Relax a little, take a breath and let VW do their thang. Good luck to the Routan and if my wife wanted one.. I wouldn't mind LETTING her get it.


----------



## InSaNeBoY (Feb 16, 1999)

I'll say right now that I like it. But than I'm looking into getting a minivan in about a year from now. No one has mentioned it, but using a chrysler powertrain, while it may be of iffy quality, parts are going to be easy to find and cheep. Parts stores even in the smallest towns are going to stock those drivetrain parts. 
Another point, look at the european chrysler offerings, they still have the last gen vans, but they can be had with diesels (and manual transmissions too!). I think it's just a matter of time, no way chrysler could sell the new van in europe with out a diesel. Just a matter of getting it to meet US emissions standards. Maybe that's part of the VW/chrysler deal? VW's got a full line of diesels and the tech to pass US emissions. 
any how, VW, the wife wants one in mocha brown please.


----------



## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (Rabbit5GTI)*

my qualm with this vehicle is this:
I have no problem with VW building something on this platform. From early reports, the platform is pretty darn good. But they so could have done more than exterior cosmetic changes.
If Chrysler was able to take the previous generation E-Class platform and make the 300/Charger look TOTALLY different inside and out, I see no reason why VW could not. Sure, I could wager why they didn't...they are looking for the greatest profit margin. The less they source from Chrysler, the less it will cost them.
This minivan will get some scathing reviews I anticipate, because VW's hallmark has always been awesome interiors. This one is good for a Chrysler, poor for a VW.


----------



## futur (Jul 10, 2003)

im happy with the interior. just put a 2.0 TDI in there and im sold.


----------



## Audiophil (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: (duncangtifreak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duncangtifreak* »_This is the worst idea in automotive history. VW is introducing a product no one wants, no one will buy, and will do more damage to their brand than any VW product in history. They simply don't get it. I try to convince people all the time that VW still equals affordable european enthusiasts cars, but the company just insists on proving me wrong. 
What will the VW enthusiast community do when decisions like these doom the company/brand in America? It'll happen...sooner than we think. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What is a "-Conversation Mirror"??








and "-Thirteen cup holders"... wow where is my check book?


----------



## KdFWagen (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (veedubmac)*








they should have tried harder for the microbus


----------



## StabPrimo (Mar 9, 2006)

Barf.


----------



## Njaneer (Oct 2, 2006)

*Re: (StabPrimo)*

EDSEL


----------



## Dasch90 (Jan 3, 2008)

*Re: (futur)*


_Quote, originally posted by *futur* »_just put a 2.0 TDI in there and im sold.
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So where are the turbos and diesel engines with this VAN??? Especially in a time when small cars and great fuel economy is what average people want. A "pushrod" 4.0 def. will not sell as a turbo or diesel would.


----------



## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (op3r8r)*


_Quote, originally posted by *op3r8r* »_Relax a little people. Do you really think that this van is targeting those of us who are interested in Volkswagens from a performance standpoint? and those of us who view vwvortex 10-100 times a day? Maybe and just maybe for a second vehicle but for the most part VW is trying to lure away those who are buying other vans out there or people who might be looking at a van. This is not geared to those interested in modifying their car or interested in performance. Relax a little, take a breath and let VW do their thang. Good luck to the Routan and if my wife wanted one.. I wouldn't mind LETTING her get it.

I wish I had said that.


----------



## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (duncangtifreak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duncangtifreak* »_This is the worst idea in automotive history. VW is introducing a product no one wants, no one will buy, and will do more damage to their brand than any VW product in history. They simply don't get it. I try to convince people all the time that VW still equals affordable european enthusiasts cars, but the company just insists on proving me wrong. 
What will the VW enthusiast community do when decisions like these doom the company/brand in America? It'll happen...sooner than we think. 

Thanks for joining the 'Tex today and posting such insightful thoughts. Ya'll come back now! Toodles.


----------



## Colombian Gringo (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

I'm only somewhat disappointed with this. I say somewhat only because I didn't have any great expectations several years back when I read that VW and Chrysler were developing a minivan together. 
In my opinion VW really dropped the ball when the discontinued working on the Microbus concept. That really would have been a cool minivan that stood out from the rest. I think it would have sold well. The Routan looks like the rest of the minivans on the market today. 
I can almost guarantee that this isn't going to beat the reigning champ, Honda Odyssey, in any comparison tests. It's already behind before the test begins with choice to use Chrysler's archaic powerplants. 
I'm surprised that VW didn't decide to use the 3.6L from the Touareg. I can only assume they decided to stick with Chrysler's engine in an effort to reduce manufacturing costs. I think this is a decision that will cost them more in the long run.


----------



## DubR337 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (Colombian ******)*

VW FAILagon


----------



## Rage In The Machines (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (Colombian ******)*

I'm hoping it might be a Honda/Isuzu "Passport" kinda thing, just to get a foot hold and then we get our beloved Microbus.


----------



## evilpat (Feb 26, 2002)

*Re: (redneckdzl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redneckdzl* »_Where's the diesel??????

Exactly, why bother bringing another product to mini-van market unless if has something new to offer?


----------



## SEAT (Apr 26, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (DubR337)*

What is so difficult about selling a Touran here in the US? 
Find a way to build it in Mexico, Brazil or whatever at the same price point.
A 140PD TDI Touran would get close to or maybe better than 40 MPG highway when driven sanely, last forever, cruise in style, parts interchange with other VWs of similar years, get better than 40 MPG - yeah that's a big one for me, retain VAG-COM and OE scan tool support, retain respect by anyone that works on them, and about a million other positives.
I want a Touran, my family needs a Touran. Will I buy a Routan instead? Absolutely, positively not in a million years. 
For shame VW, what's the deal? Please try and do better for our sake and yours. 
In general: products great; everything else, bad.


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## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

*Re: Diesel*

A diesel is in the works.....


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## Zerek (Jun 15, 2001)

*Re: Diesel (vwbugstuff)*








VW what have you done








I understand that it should have some MOPAR influences due to the platform sharing, but DANG!!! that thins says MOPAR all over the interior







I think that the only VW switch might be the headlight switch http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
The interior is a let-down from what I can see... too bad. I hope it sells though, VW needs to sell (whatever it is).


----------



## SEAT (Apr 26, 2001)

*Re: Diesel (vwbugstuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwbugstuff* »_A diesel is in the works.....

Based on the level of VW vs. DC parts content. If a diesel is in the works, it'll be a CDI engine similar to what Europe gets in their DC vans. I can't offer up too much on that engine but I can offer up that each and every TDI engine sold in the US and abroad is a magnificent engine in the truest sense.


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## blueduece (Sep 11, 2007)

*Re: (veedubmac)*

I think i crapped my pants a little when i saw this


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## quailallstar (Dec 2, 2001)

I thought the interior would be more Volkswagenish. For example the headlamp switch, radio, steering wheels etc are all Dodge/Chrysler parts.


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## Pizza Cat (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (quailallstar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quailallstar* »_I thought the interior would be more Volkswagenish. For example the headlamp switch, radio, steering wheels etc are all Dodge/Chrysler parts. 

and that's not even the worst part...where is the vw gauge cluster (always have had the best in the business), and where is the vw climatronic???


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## dogboner2001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (spdfrk)*

"Caravanagon"!





























Best.New.Name.Ever!


_Modified by dogboner2001 at 9:25 PM 2-8-2008_


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Rabbit5GTI)*

I just posted interior impressions here. Yes, most of the parts are shared with the Chrysler vans--that was key to bringing this vehicle to market quickly and efficiently using production processes already in place. But yesterday at the Chicago Auto Show, after I was able to poke around in the Routan, I went to check out the Caravan and Town & Country. The VW van is far nicer, and the overall effect is impressive. This van _does_ feel like a VW.


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## captain coordination (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: (veedubmac)*

its not bad for a minivan. at least the interior looks decent.
what will the engine options be? can we get a 6 speed or DSG tranny? all i'm sayin is that with a proper Turbo'ed Vr6 it would be pretty ill..... 
can u imagine smokin ricers in a minivan?


----------



## Pizza Cat (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (captain coordination)*


_Quote, originally posted by *captain coordination* »_its not bad for a minivan. at least the interior looks decent.
what will the engine options be? can we get a 6 speed or DSG tranny? all i'm sayin is that with a proper Turbo'ed Vr6 it would be pretty ill..... 
can u imagine smokin ricers in a minivan?

have you not read anything so far? no VR6, only chrysler engines. no DSG, just a chrysler slushbox.


----------



## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (Rabbit5GTI)*

*"A move by Chrysler prevented VW from including the much-hyped proprietary Swivel ‘n Go seating system, which is a disappointment — the feature would have been a nice throwback to VW’s camper heritage."*
Looking a year into the future to a thread title in the Touran forum: "How-To: 2nd row seats swivel mod."


----------



## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: (Kid Hobo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kid Hobo* »_Holy HONDA
















http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

That is exactly what I thought or KIA. Congratulations on not designing anything we have not seen before. Looks like another loser from VW


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## B5variant (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: (eurotrashrabbit)*

WOW.
I have to say.....i normally don't post but I had to here.
I'd do a better job putting VW emblems on a van then VW did.
WTF?


----------



## Toby16custom (May 16, 2006)

*Re: (B5variant)*

so what kind of engine from VW does this have in it or are they dodge engines?


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## rpps (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

I hope this did not cost a lot of $ on VW's side.
Not a very well thought-out project in my eyes.
If you're going to do something, do it right.


----------



## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (Toby16custom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Toby16custom* »_so what kind of engine from VW does this have in it or are they dodge engines?


----------



## thumper87 (Sep 11, 2007)

*Re: (Rabbit5GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbit5GTI* »_
have you not read anything so far? no VR6, only chrysler engines. no DSG, just a chrysler slushbox.

A COLUMN SHIFTER, AT THAT! I know this is a minivan, but it's also a Volkswagen and Volkswagens are inherently cool. So forget that it's basically a Chrysler with a VW badge and forget that it's got a Chrysler engine and a Chrysler transmission... HOW CAN YOU BE COOL WITH A COLUMN SHIFTER?!


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (thumper87)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thumper87* »_
A COLUMN SHIFTER, AT THAT! I know this is a minivan, but it's also a Volkswagen and Volkswagens are inherently cool. So forget that it's basically a Chrysler with a VW badge and forget that it's got a Chrysler engine and a Chrysler transmission... HOW CAN YOU BE COOL WITH A COLUMN SHIFTER?!

C'mon man, the wifey is gonna be drivin' it most of the time, not us, do u really think she's cares?


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## EDH1014 (Sep 18, 2007)

Memo to VW: We don't want Americanized VWs! If we wanted American cars, we be driving Buicks. If I wanted a Chrysler, I'd buy one. All you're doing is alienating your core customers, who have supported you all these years. Little by little, you're compromising each car by trying to appeal to American tastes. Have you looked at what's on American roads? They have no taste! Compare the tasteful and functional rear lights of the Golf Mk IV (with their safer amber turn signals, separate stop lights and built-in fogs) with the horrible, Chevy Caprice-like tail lights on the Mk Vs. People who like American cars will not buy VWs and, soon, people who have always liked VWs, won't be buying VWs either. Then what will you have? Build your cars with Toyota-like reliability and pre-2006 style, and they'll sell themselves. Please, stay away from Chrysler. Recent history should show that nobody wants them.


----------



## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

*Re: (thumper87)*

It's not a column shifter. It's up on the dash. Similar to the T5, just up higher.


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## EDH1014 (Sep 18, 2007)

PS. Good job on the Passat CC. That is one of the best looking cars I've seen in a long time. Keep going in that direction (and give us a Rabbit TDI), and I can forgive a rebadged Chrysler minivan.


----------



## Braunschwagen (Mar 13, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

T h e g a s c a p i s o n t h e w r o n g s i d e .


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## OOMPH (Nov 1, 2007)

could be worse!! VW has done this before,truthfully the Taro pu was much worse.VW needs to be stronger in the US market,and unfortunately,the US/Canadian market dictates the need...saddens me aswell..wished we atleast got the Crafter here.mercedes/Dodge Sprinter /Crafter,i guess Sharan is too old and "Euro" for the american pallet


----------



## Midwesterner (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (veedubmac)*

Why didn't they just bring the updated 2008 Sharan here thats available in Europe?


----------



## where_2 (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_C'mon man, the wifey is gonna be drivin' it most of the time, not us, do u really think she's cares?









My wife wouln't be caught dead in it, let alone pick it out as her daily driver!! She'd PUSH my Corrado 5spd before she daily drove a mini-van. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif That's why she picked out her Jetta_TDI 5spd. She would have done a 6spd manual tranny if it was available as it is in Europe! 
FWIW, my wife's also SOLD on TDI/Diesel as the powerplant of the future. Whenever someone asks her about her Jetta_TDI, she's more than happy to explain how she'd give up the HP in a 2.0T gas engine for more torque in a little TDI_Diesel engine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif She's also quite happy getting 38MPG every day... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
No TDI/Diesel, I'd never buy a Routan. I'd save my pennies for a Touareg2_V10_TDI, or pray for a Tiguan_V6_TDI!


----------



## op3r8r (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: (EDH1014)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EDH1014* »_Memo to VW: We don't want Americanized VWs! If we wanted American cars, we be driving Buicks. If I wanted a Chrysler, I'd buy one. All you're doing is alienating your core customers, who have supported you all these years. Little by little, you're compromising each car by trying to appeal to American tastes. Have you looked at what's on American roads? They have no taste! Compare the tasteful and functional rear lights of the Golf Mk IV (with their safer amber turn signals, separate stop lights and built-in fogs) with the horrible, Chevy Caprice-like tail lights on the Mk Vs. People who like American cars will not buy VWs and, soon, people who have always liked VWs, won't be buying VWs either. Then what will you have? Build your cars with Toyota-like reliability and pre-2006 style, and they'll sell themselves. Please, stay away from Chrysler. Recent history should show that nobody wants them.

Memo to VW: Don't listen to douche bags like this and those like him or her. First of all, he doesn't know a whole lot what he is talking about as Toyota's reliability has dropped as a result of building 1.5 gazillion cars. Second how does a guy like this make a blanket statement like "soon people who have always liked VWs, won't be buying VWs either?" Yes EDH1014, every single person who has ever liked VWs won't anymore, next year you will not sell one car.







Rock the Routan VW, I might get one for my wife and I hope you sell 45,001 to exceed your intended target.


----------



## VW Jetta GLS (Jun 21, 2000)

*What is the point?*

In a shrinking market segment, VW finds the weakest entrant and rebadges it. Great job. 
I am so disappointed. So much wrong here. My wife was just telling me "Don't get upset, we have known for a while that VWoA is incompetent." How true.
My condolences.


----------



## DazMR2 (Jul 30, 2007)

*Re: (vwbugstuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwbugstuff* »_It's not a column shifter. It's up on the dash. Similar to the T5, just up higher.

It's also a 6 speed transmission, at least in the 4.0L.


----------



## MeineFolks'wagen (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (Midwesterner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midwesterner* »_Why didn't they just bring the updated 2008 Sharan here thats available in Europe?


X2 - I wondered the same thing. You've already got a vehicle being made, so production is already in place. All you have to do is put them on a boat and ship them over. It's no different than some of their other models that they have in Europe that they won't bring here - Polo, Lupo, etc. Same thing with other companies like Chevy - I just looked at the German Chevy site - I'm sure in todays gas crunch, many of those models would now do very well here...


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (Midwesterner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Midwesterner* »_Why didn't they just bring the updated 2008 Sharan here thats available in Europe?









VW is not allowed to, since it was part of the agreement with Ford.
Plus...it's too small to compete in the US
VW Germany website still shows the old one


----------



## TechEd (Nov 11, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

I see that the irony of this announcement is totally lost on many here.
I'm thinking that Dr. Heinz Nordhoff is rolling in his grave, and that this will be the second time he's done so on this topic. As the *real* father of the modern minivan concept, the VW Microbus, I'm sure Dr. Nordhoff rolled in his grave back in 1983 when Chrysler's ad hype laid claim to having "invented" the segment. Now, 27 years later, Chrysler is facilitating VW's reentry into the market!
What Dr. Nordhoff fails to grasp, along with many others on these forums, is that times have changed. Dr. Nordhoff's lapse in judgment can be excused (after all, he's dead). But in usual vwvortex style, the peasants have once again armed themselves with pitchforks and torches, ready to charge Frankensteins' castle ...likely to find that the monster is really not a monster after all. This is an all-to-familiar norm in the world of VW in the US.
The truth is, the extreme economic climate associated with importation of any German goods to the US has driven VWoA and VWAG into what I see, in principle, to be a sound business strategy. It's a forgone conclusion that the Euro will continue to dominate the US dollar for many years to come, and that VWoA must once and for all, stop waffling on the creation of a US manufacturing facility or a significant expansion of the existing facility in Puebla. Continuing to lose money on every single German-production model they import to the US, due to the impossible gap between the US dollar and Euro, cannot, and must not continue without some form of hedging ...as BMW and Mercedes have already done very effectively with their US facilities. All the apparently apealing Sharans adn polos and whatever produced in Europe, or Germany in particular, will only deepen the losses here. While a joint venture Minivan appears at first to lack the "purity" that many VW enthusiasts expect, it is an innovative way to get back on the scorecard in a failing market, and forge their way back to profitability in the USA, and on the terms that define the mechanisms of that profitability.
It's obvious from many posts on the 4 pages preceding, and undoubtedly on the pages that will follow, that the naysayers and knee-jerk posters that loiter here do not own small import businesses (or other business for that matter), or are responsible or accountable for the financial well being of the company they work for. It's actually a very simple question: VWoA has lost billions in the US, having not registered a profit since 2002. Should VWAG continue to subsidize these losses? They collectively have to act now, and act decisively. The only thing in their way will be the flighty and volatile nature of the market here. Indeed, " we have met the enemy, and he is us".
My real fear is that, after many years in the US and Canada as a brand that was "not for everyone", and that VWoA accepted and even promoted this innocent identity crisis, they are now embarking on different path. This path mirrors that of the Asian and Domestic mfr. market capitalization giants, where pandering to self-righteous consumers becomes the focus, and local volume production fuels the gleam of potential profits in their eyes. VW in America will shift towards an "American cars for Americans" policy because, after all, "....everything is bigger in the US". Should this prophecy be fulfilled, and we have no choice but to drive VW-badged appliances like Camrys and Accords, not only will Dr. Nordhoff be doing back flips in his grave, Dr. Ferdinand Porsche, Major Ivan Hirst, and many others involved with Volkswagen's heritage will be following suit.
A new era is upon us, and it appears that the volatility and economics that are solely unique to the US market will once again force VW to reinvent itself here ...and unfortunately, in ways that will never, ever fully satisfy all the peasants, all the time.


_Modified by TechEd at 8:30 PM 2-7-2008_


----------



## vwcrzy (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: (EDH1014)*

My family has stayed loyal to VW for almost 40 years. If this is any indication of the future that will change! 
This is what happens when bean counters run a company instead of loyal VW people.
I agree with the post above to the extent that this why the bean counters are doing it, but not that its the only solution.
Come on VW you have all the right stuff, just look across the ocean and load the ships!!!









_Modified by vwcrzy at 11:03 PM 2-7-2008_


_Modified by vwcrzy at 11:05 PM 2-7-2008_


----------



## DMS_SLiC (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (TechEd)*

Thank you TechEd for putting it so eloquently.I always look forward to your posts.
I actually like the Routan and if I were in the market for a van,this would be it.


----------



## kornjd (Jun 10, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (DMS_SLiC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DMS_SLiC* »_Thank you TechEd for putting it so eloquently.I always look forward to your posts.


x 2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## german performance (Sep 5, 2004)

I agree wth TechEd to an extent, I also am a small business owner (2) and also own a import repair (VW & AUDI) business, but I think if VW really wanted to turn a profit, they would bring over cars we want, like a cheaper pocket rocket, a mid priced sports coupe, to rival the infamous late VR6 Corrado, ( the true hot hatch). Bring over the T5 eurovan, the lupo's, the polos. Restructure all dealers, to actually provide true customer service. More engine options, more performace accesories available thru dealers, supported by dealers, and serviced by dealers.
But as for the new Routan...
engine options suck
insturnents suck
climatronic unit sucks
infotainment configuration sucks
ass end sucks
antenna sucks
switches / controls suck
But...
rear seating is cool!
F8ck, it. I have 5 kids, and will probably end up buying one...... no. I will keep the Eurovan.


_Modified by german performance at 11:25 PM 2-7-2008_


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## gnukner (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (kornjd)*

Personally, I look at it as a better business practice. Have you seen a recent $=Euro conversion lately? 1 Euro equals @ $1.44. Price a GTI between the motherland and the US... USA @ $26000 well equipped, Germany 25,650 Euro pre options. It doesn't take a 3rd grader to figure out that the US is a market that they want to keep, but are losing their @ss off.
As far as the conversion... the German economy cost would equate out to $36,963. Whens the last time you spent 36K on a GTI with no options?
I'm surprised that they don't just bail on us.

_Modified by gnukner at 7:16 AM 2-8-2008_


_Modified by gnukner at 7:17 AM 2-8-2008_


----------



## german performance (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (gnukner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gnukner* »_Personally, I look at it as a better business practice. Have you seen a recent $=Euro conversion lately? 1 Euro equals @ $1.44. Price a GTI between the motherland and the US... USA @ $26000 well equipped, Germany 25,650 Euro pre options. It doesn't take a 3rd grader to figure out that the US is a market that they want to keep, but are losing their @ss off.
As far as the conversion... the German economy cost would equate out to $36,963. Whens the last time you spent 36K on a GTI with no options?
I'm surprised that they don't just bail on us.

_Modified by gnukner at 7:16 AM 2-8-2008_

_Modified by gnukner at 7:17 AM 2-8-2008_


if Volkswagen was interested in keeping the US market, they would listen to the US market on what it wants, and try to do better on dealership customer service.


----------



## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

*Re: (vwcrzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwcrzy* »_Come on VW you have all the right stuff, just look across the ocean and load the ships!!!









xInfinity


----------



## gnukner (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (german performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *german performance* »_

if Volkswagen was interested in keeping the US market, they would listen to the US market on what it wants, and try to do better on dealership customer service.

Thats VWoA. I always took it as trying to get through a POS supervisor to get to talk to management.
I just hope the interior gets a change... ALL OF IT!


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## MrGTI (Feb 14, 2000)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Finally.
And it looks pretty damn good. Way better than the fugly Odyessy.
It's too bad it took VW this long to get back into the minivan market.


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## NeoAtreides (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Who put the Toureg radio in the Chrysler?
Almost no VW influence here. And what's with the ridiculous high-displacement low-output engines? 4.0L V6? It's going to get 18 mpg real world, and the torque figures are not exactly impressive.
Total f*ckup. Worst concept since the concept 1.


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## xinnek (Oct 26, 2005)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (NeoAtreides)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NeoAtreides* »_
Total f*ckup. Worst concept since the concept 1.

Thank god things change


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (xinnek)*

Ok, guys (and gals) let me put my two cents in on the Routan...
First off, I understand the business decision behind this product. Volkswagen has no van in this market and needed something quickly and something most importantly that they can sell at a profit and make a little money on. In much the same way Honda rebadged an Isuzu truck into their first Passport, Volkswagen is utilizing a Chrysler platform vehicle built in North America as a means to get a van to market. The big difference though is that Honda did little more than put a different grill tailamps and Honda badges on an Isuzu truck. Volkswagen on the other hand changed every single piece of sheetmetal except the front and sliding doors and the roof. Inside changes were also substantial and very little of the original Chrysler Minivan is left outside of powertrain and overall shape.
I admit I was very skeptical as to how this Routan van project would turn out. Having seen the thing in the flesh, I think VW did a hell of job making Chrysler's product look better. Gone are the chintz plastics and exposed dashboard screws (who does this anymore?) replaced instead with an interior that looks and overall feels much more like a VW product than a Chrysler product. Likewise the outside sheetmetal looks much cleaner, more upscale, smoother and overall more VW like than Chrysler-like. Seeing it in person definitely changed my impression of it and I give VW a lot of credit for all the things they changed and fought for. They built a better Chrysler minivan.
in the end the minivan segment has see a downward trend in sales. Chrysler still sells more than 400,000 vans a year and VW isn't looking to make a killing in this segment. They simply need to move sales volume up and, more importantly, sell a vehicle at a profit for a change.
If a profitable minivan (that most enthusiasts could care less about) helps fund more niche performance vehicles then I'm all for it. VW will ride out this generation of minivan while working on a van of their own that will likely be built here on a new platform. We'll see, but meanwhile I think VW did a decent job with what they had to work with on this project and it isn't as big of a deal as people in here are making it out to be.
Just my .02 cents for what it's worth these days.


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## elmer fud (Aug 5, 2003)

so vwoa will give us a mini van they dont even make, but they still wont give me a sub compact, DAMM IT VWOA I WANT A LUPO, call it a fox or whatever I dont care, the vw people used to tell me they dint want to bring it over cus it would be one more motor for the usa to deal with (tech training and part suply) but now that you can get it with a 1.8t whats the big deal. tech training and parts suply should be fun on this pice of van crap. 
next it will be the VW RAM. 
I guess we had to get something from mopar seeing that we gave them our TDI motors to put in there crap. 

edit: why not bring the Caravelle over if they wanted a vw van. 
http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/caravelle

the whole thing reminds me of the saab 92-x its just a subi, with some over priced body panals. 

_Modified by elmer fud at 12:45 PM 2-8-2008_










_Modified by elmer fud at 12:46 PM 2-8-2008_


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## german performance (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Ok, guys (and gals) let me put my two cents in on the Routan...
First off, I understand the business decision behind this product. Volkswagen has no van in this market and needed something quickly and something most importantly that they can sell at a profit and make a little money on. In much the same way Honda rebadged an Isuzu truck into their first Passport, Volkswagen is utilizing a Chrysler platform vehicle built in North America as a means to get a van to market. The big difference though is that Honda did little more than put a different grill tailamps and Honda badges on an Isuzu truck. Volkswagen on the other hand changed every single piece of sheetmetal except the front and sliding doors and the roof. Inside changes were also substantial and very little of the original Chrysler Minivan is left outside of powertrain and overall shape.
I admit I was very skeptical as to how this Routan van project would turn out. Having seen the thing in the flesh, I think VW did a hell of job making Chrysler's product look better. Gone are the chintz plastics and exposed dashboard screws (who does this anymore?) replaced instead with an interior that looks and overall feels much more like a VW product than a Chrysler product. Likewise the outside sheetmetal looks much cleaner, more upscale, smoother and overall more VW like than Chrysler-like. Seeing it in person definitely changed my impression of it and I give VW a lot of credit for all the things they changed and fought for. They built a better Chrysler minivan.
in the end the minivan segment has see a downward trend in sales. Chrysler still sells more than 400,000 vans a year and VW isn't looking to make a killing in this segment. They simply need to move sales volume up and, more importantly, sell a vehicle at a profit for a change.
If a profitable minivan (that most enthusiasts could care less about) helps fund more niche performance vehicles then I'm all for it. VW will ride out this generation of minivan while working on a van of their own that will likely be built here on a new platform. We'll see, but meanwhile I think VW did a decent job with what they had to work with on this project and it isn't as big of a deal as people in here are making it out to be.
Just my .02 cents for what it's worth these days.











So, where do I sign up to learn to work on an inferior drivetrain, will the rear hatch pop open when my son hits a pot hole like Chrysler? Will my door handle fall off like it did for Lee Iacocca? Will there be paneling on the sides?
I sadly disagree with you on all sides, VW took a lazy approach to rebranding a cookie cutter boring product. Regardless to how you feel the dash is still 100% boring Dodge. If VW wanted a profit, bring over any car we can't get here, lupos, polos, scirocco, t5 caravell..... they are world cars, already meet crash standards, emission equipment, etc
my .03


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## sbachmeier (Mar 2, 1999)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Aesthetically, not a terrible looking package overall... but this truly is Badge Engineering at its worst. Fer crissake VW, at least put a freakin' TDI motor in it!!! Or in the Passat. Or in the Jetta SportWagen. Or in the...


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (sbachmeier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sbachmeier* »_Aesthetically, not a terrible looking package overall... but this truly is Badge Engineering at its worst. Fer crissake VW, *have cloth interior as an available option, and at the very least put a freakin' TDI motor in it*!!!..

There. I fixed it for ya Scott.


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## vdubjettaman (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (jsmyle1%@vw)*

i would have rather seen the Touran, not the Routan. I know its not as big as the Routan and that is the biggest concern when entering the Minivan market, how much space does it have for a soccermom.








just my $0.02.


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## OOMPH (Nov 1, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*

Sharan is too euro a bit dated and too expensive to bring here...







for


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## vdubjettaman (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: (OOMPH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOMPH* »_Sharan is too euro a bit dated and too expensive to bring here...







for

I posted a Touran, not a Sharan.


----------



## jaegervw2 (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (dubious311)*

Man that concept microbus would've made VW TONS of $$$$$$$ if they had gone with that!
Just look at how well Toyota's FJ Cruiser has sold! and that thing is a huge piece of plastic with bad visability and far less than 13 cupholders I'm sure






















Man that concept would be in my driveway right now....


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (elmer fud)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elmer fud* »_but they still wont give me a sub compact

Rob, are you willing to pay $18,000 for a Fox or $32,000 for a Polo? That is the US equivalent of what those cars cost in Germany. Their design, engineering, and construction are financed in Euros. Sub-compacts have the slimmest profit margins. There is NO WAY those cars could be shipped over and sold in US dollars at a profit. VW is losing money on the base model Rabbits sold here as it is. Yet everyone seems to think that a Fox or Polo could be exported as a competitor to the $9000 Chevy Aveo.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love a VW sub-compact, too. I said on these forums several years ago that if VW ever offered us a $15,000 compact car, I'd go buy it. I never thought that day would come, but it did. I want VW to be successful here; like Jamie mentioned above, I am excited about some of the niche market product that's being discussed.
But to do that, VW needs profitable vehicles that will drive traffic into their showrooms. The Routan has that potential. 


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:00 PM 2-8-2008_


----------



## AzBarber (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Last time I was down in New Orleans, my dad and I went into one of the bars on Bourbon St. It featured men convincingly dressed as women singing and dancing. They fooled my dad for a couple of minutes, and he's been around a bit. They were good.
My point is, those guys were wearing wigs, makeup, and women's clothes. They looked just like very attractive women. (Well, most of them) But even though they had all the exterior facade of actual women, they were still men.
It's all about the difference between function and form. Yes, the Routan is tarted up very nicely. It's a good looking minivan. But underneath, it's still a freakin' Chrysler.
It really amazes me how many people can get so emotionally wrapped up in a car company that they'll defy reason and logic and keep claiming something is what it's not. I don't care how much you like the Routan, or how important you think it is for VW to sell the Routan... it's still just a car, and it's still just a dolled up Chrysler.
Az


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (AzBarber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AzBarber* »_......It really amazes me how many people can get so emotionally wrapped up _in their Eurovan _that they'll defy reason and logic and keep _clamouring onto something that's not practical for the masses_. I don't care how much _you like your Eurovan, or how important you think it is for VW to sell the new T5 in North America_.......

Fixed it for ya. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I sure hope you can take a joke.


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## 2.0Tjetta (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

What seems to be the problem at VW HQ. We all know they have needed a new van for a while now. But to turn to a U.S. company for support when they already have a great line of vans in their inventory back in Europe. This doesnt make to not make much sense to me.
The Touran is a litle small for US Market i know. There is still the T4 and T5 Carrevells which are great updated versions of the US eurovans.
For the starting price of $25K i will just continue looking for a 99-03 eurovan MV since i am in the market for a new van with my 4th child on the way.


_Modified by 2.0Tjetta at 4:54 AM 2-9-2008_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (2.0Tjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0Tjetta* »_What seems to be the problem at VW HQ. We all know they have needed a new van for a while now. But to turn to a U.S. company for support when they already have a great line of vans in their inventory back in Europe. This doesnt make to not make much sense to me.
The Touran is a litle small for US Market i know. There is still the T4 and T5 Carrevells which are great updated versions of the US eurovans.
For the starting price of $25K i will just continue looking for a 99-03 eurovan MV since i am in the market for a new van with my 4th child on the way.

_Modified by 2.0Tjetta at 4:54 AM 2-9-2008_

Back before the days of soccer mom SUVs, when minivans ruled the driveways, frankly, in the 90's, the Eurovan wasn't that competitive. It was too small, too heavy for the VR6 motor, too truck-like, and too pricey. The MV Weekender is still really cool, and only a small fraction of diehards bought them (and still holds a nice premium).
That being said.... the T5's will suffer the same fate, which will be disasterous for VW financially, since it costs considerably to basterdize the Euro-spec to meet US standards.
I don't like the fact the Routan is a Chrysler minivan with a VW badge--- but hopefully, as I mentioned, in the coming years when VW starts producing in the US again, maybe they will have a real VW-designed minivan to meet our market.
...and don't worry, VW has done this stuff before....


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## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

Quoting the appropriate tagline:










_Modified by vwbugstuff at 12:16 AM 2-9-2008_


----------



## amerikanzero (Jun 6, 2004)

with any luck this thing will fail miserably almost immediately and we can put it behind us already.


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## captain coordination (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: (Rabbit5GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbit5GTI* »_
have you not read anything so far? no VR6, only chrysler engines. no DSG, just a chrysler slushbox.

dude come on. i was joking. calm down. yes i read everything. i was just teasing. i didn't think they'd throw in a turbo vr6 with a 6 speed. 
again. just to recap. just kidding. maybe i should have put more LOL's or i could just be kindergarten and put in a "j/k" for all the peeps that don't understand sarcasm....


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## 2.0Tjetta (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

here is a link to what VW should have here as a van. A true VW not some rebadged, lets try to fit in, make a quick buck van.
http://www.volkswagen-nutzfahr....html
4 Motion TDI isnt that what we all want. fuel cosumption of 6.9l per 100km


_Modified by 2.0Tjetta at 8:57 AM 2-9-2008_


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## QUATTR0 (Dec 1, 2005)

*Re: (g60_corrado_91)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g60_corrado_91* »_
I was gonna say, since when does VW make a 3.8L with only 197hp and a 4.0L V6? Figures. I'm all for pushrod engines, as long as they're Chevy small block V8's. 
But a pushrod V6 in a VW? I don't see this car selling very well, especially when you look at how good the Honda is. The 3.8L engine is ancient.








Also, I think the editing was off. They said the navigation system had 20 megs of hard drive space. Did you mean 20 gigs?
Edit: I'm not 100% sure if the 4.0L V6 is a pushrod engine or not. I'm almost positive the 3.8L is though.

_Modified by g60_corrado_91 at 5:59 PM 2-6-2008_

Do you think the average minivan buyer even knows what a pushrod is?








I think it looks quite good actually... to the average minivan buyer they may not even know it's a Chrysler underneath.
And with base prices starting at $25K ($2K less than the Caravan), I think it will do well.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

4.0L V6 is a SOHC


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## argh32 (Apr 8, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

What a P.O.S., this is not a VW.
Surprised? Not really.....seems like another winner from the geniuses that squandered the fortune on the Phaton.
No, you can't have the new Scirocco or an R32 with a manual gearbox, but you can buy this POS rebadged Chrysler minivan. "It's a really great and exciting addition...blah, blah, blah".
Seems to me like they are serving a POS on your plate and telling you it is a steak. My nose knows better.


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## AzBarber (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (jsmyle1%@vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsmyle1%@vw* »_
Fixed it for ya. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I sure hope you can take a joke.

















I can take a joke, but the ones that are funny are a lot better.








I just wish you could understand the point. I'm over the T5. I've wanted to sell the Eurovan for a couple years now, but my wife won't let me. She loves it, and we've owned many different kinds of vans over the years, including a Caravan.
I'm just baffled about this new van.
Az


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

Jamie.
Such a fanboi


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

Well, to be quite honest with everyone - I like it. I think it’s a great way for VW to tap into the minivan market just as GM and Ford are leaving. The partnership with Chrysler is welcomed. It’s a good way for VW to produce a minivan without sinking time and money into a minivan - right away. Okay, so there are some things wrong with it - it’s a Chrysler, oh wait - they’ve had the best selling minivan for years.
As far as I can see from the pictures, I can only attest to being bothered with 2 items. 1) The dash doesn’t look anything like a Volkswagen, I’ll admit that it looks more like a Chrysler dash with a enclave scooped out for a Navi. 2) The tail lights don’t look like a VW design. I was expecting more of a Tiguan/Rabbit design to the tail lights.
But, considering the Routan is their first mini-van in 11 years (ending with the Eurovan in 1998), it’s a pleasant, modern look that I’m sure will work fine in the U.S. market - so long as it’s advertised better than the Chrysler.
The whole Chrysler partnership deal is relatively simple. VW wanted to expand their presence in the U.S. market - which is more than welcomed -but they needed a cost-effective way to produce a minivan, that’s fine, it gives them a contracted agreement to test the minivan market and it’s acceptance of a ‘European’-marketed/badged minivan, gives the market a chance to accept the idea. It’s just VWs way of checking the market and not pouring millions into designs, plants, engines, etc.
The Microbus concept was just that - a concept. The reality (and failure) of the Microbus was that it would be technically ‘The World’s Smallest Retro-Designed Minivan’ - people are willing to say “I’ll buy one!” but once it boils down to price and size, it would’ve been a HUGE loss for VW. I’m not saying it was bad from the start, it just needs major reengineering to fit into the market, and be a worthy and serious competitor - while attracting new buyers every year. But the Microbus faces yet another failure point - it’s retro design. Much like it’s New Beetle sister, it’s a retro design, and how long is it really going to last? VW has already said that it’s going to pull the Beetle in a few years because they aren’t selling as well as they used to. And VW isn’t the only one faced with this Retro-designed failure, Chrysler’s PT Cruiser, Chevy’s HHR, Ford Mustang and T-Bird are the first ones that pop into mind as Retro-designed, but doomed for termination.
But, after a few years of marketing and sales, I would hope (and expect) the Routan 2 would be redefined and actually built on VW platforms, with VW engines and transmissions.
My only hope is that by mid- to late-2010, VW will offer a diesel motor with it’s 7-speed DSG transmission.
As for the Touran - I agree, they should’ve brought that over with the 2005/2006 model change (from Mk4 to Mk5/B5.5 to B6) as ‘The All-New Touran’ - that way they could’ve gotten a feel for the market, and have a better judgement for either going with the Chrysler product or making their own. Only time will tell what will happen.
Oh - and if you really want to think about the demographic, I’m a 23 years old Male, I (still) live at home with my parents, I drive a 2000 Golf, and I work as a graphic designer, I don’t have kids - or even a girlfriend - and if I could afford this van, I would get one.


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (2.0Tjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0Tjetta* »_here is a link to what VW should have here as a van. A true VW not some rebadged, lets try to fit in, make a quick buck van.
http://www.volkswagen-nutzfahr....html
4 Motion TDI isnt that what we all want. fuel cosumption of 6.9l per 100km

_Modified by 2.0Tjetta at 8:57 AM 2-9-2008_

Sorry, but the Multivan would be a huge failure in the States.
Too big to be a Mini-Van, too small to be a Van - too heavy and boxy for the market and it just wouldn't fit - though some of the amities are nice.


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (AzBarber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AzBarber* »_I can take a joke, but the ones that are funny are a lot better.










I thought it was funny.









_Quote, originally posted by *AzBarber* »_....I just wish you could understand the point. I'm over the T5. I've wanted to sell the Eurovan for a couple years now, but my wife won't let me. She loves it, and we've owned many different kinds of vans over the years, including a Caravan.


Az,
Please don't get me wrong, I do understand your point. Don't you think I would prefer a 100% VW product? In a heartbeat!! But, having been a VW enthusiast since 1980 and an employee since 1995, I also consider myself to be a realist.
VW has not been very attentive to the American consumer for years. Despite what 'Texers think, what works in Europe doesn't necessarily translate to the North American market.....especially not now.
As much as I wanted/still want the Microbus (or an Executive Edition T5 Multivan), I'm not paying $50 grand for it. Unless you can devise a financial plan/strategy for VW to bring it to market at a competitive price, let's just agree that the Microbus (or T5) will have to wait until the second generation Routan.









_Quote, originally posted by *AzBarber* »_....I'm just baffled about this new van.
Az


That's ok. I might be a bit baffled too. However, I'm going to be open-minded to idea of having a Routan in VWs lineup.....and possibly in my driveway. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## soupy (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

I don't like it for a lot of reasons.
1. Some of you have said that it was a good business decision, but I don't believe that. While the minivan segment will always remain relatively strong in the U.S., I believe it is on the decline. VW is painfully late to this segment and with no prior credibility, it will be hard to move adequeate volume (Touareg anyone?) Reliability is a huge factor for anyone buying a minivan and even if VW's have improved, their reputation hasn't. Not a good, rationale decision for most consumers.
2. This is bad for the brand. As a longtime VW owner, I'd have to say that with the exception of the GTI, the new generation of vehicles is more generic and less appealing than ever. (I'm way more in the Audi camp these days.) Adding a Chrysler-underpinned minivan isn't going to help bring back the magic the brand has lost. When VW was almost pulling out of the U.S. in the early 90's, the only thing that saved it was that the brand was quirky and stood for something. The microbus was killed because it couldn't be produced at a low enough price to be profitable, but that is the kind of vehicle that attracts new buyers and gives a brand a personality, and thus market momentum. This is the same badge engineering that killed the American sub-brands like Plymouth, Mercury and Oldsmobile. 
3. Minivans are lame and ugly. God help us all who own them.


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## verb.move (Jun 30, 2006)

wait wait wait wait, slow down.
where are you guys getting the idea that it is a Chrysler? No where in the article did it even mention Chrysler.
Ok, so going on the word that it IS a rebadged Chrysler....since when were VW and Chrysler in cahoots?
edit: Ok, AutoBlog says they are in cahoots for this one.
I don't think this is a good idea:
a) The minivan market is dieing. Everyone is getting SUVs now.
b) WTF? Its a Chrysler.
c) It's being built at a Chrysler plant. Which means it will be of the same quality as any other Chrysler.
d) Its fugly.
e) Chrysler(and the other 2 of the Big 3) are not doing so hot. So stay away.


_Modified by verb.move at 11:24 AM 2-9-2008_


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## Jetta109 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

I would have liked to see more VW Influence. A TDI engine, maybe the 5cyl engine and an optional VR6 or 8 with 4motion.....How great would a six speed have been? 
The Gauges need to be the distinctive Blue and Red not that god-awful american greenish blue. The New Climatronic, The Newly Redone Navi with a Dynaudio system. 
I dunno, I think with some wheels and a sporty appearance kit, It would be drivable and I wouldnt mind having it in the driveway but I dont want a Dodge engine in my VW.....Actually I dont even want a Mercedes engine in my VW. If they dont throw that into it Id buy a Passat or a Touareg, at least with that I know Id be in a real Vw with the Rattles and Random CELs


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

*Re: (verb.move)*

Wow, I can't believe the slog of ridiculous comments in here. It really amazes me. I agree with Jamie's comments completely, and it's not because of the 'fanboi' in me, either. I will never be in the market for a mini-van, and yes this segment is dwindling, but there's still money to be made in it. From an objective perspective, the Routan is a surprisingly well-done platform-shared short-term product, and there's no better way VWoA could have pursued a more low-risk, high-return way to build some immediate profitability into the lineup. Which, if anyone in here actually had to foresight to step back and consider the bigger picture from a business-decision perspective, is a solid step towards being able to generate sales traffic, revenue and momentum to eventually expand their offerings in the US to include smaller cars, more TDIs, and other niche- and performance vehicles that all the whiners and fanbois on this site incessantly bitch and moan about. 
No doubt VWoA has some serious growth potential. No doubt they need to do some incredible work to get there. No doubt the management at VWoA knows and acknowledges this. But you can't fix something this big without taking calculated, intelligent, incremental steps to get there. I was just as skeptical as anyone about how bad this minivan project could turn out, but am honestly pleasantly surprised by the outcome, and see the Routan as a solid step in that right direction. I'm eager to watch the market reaction. 
Alright, I'm off my soapbox now; end of rant.











_Modified by mhjett at 2:12 PM 2-9-2008_


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (mhjett)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mhjett* »_...Alright, I'm off my soapbox now; end of rant.










Thanks for passing the baton.








O.K......So, I'll go out on a limb and say that I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Routan was named minivan of the year by Automobile or Car & Driver.
Yes, I know crack is not the answer. But, i' cou' happn'!!!
_"The VW-influenced interior coupled with the exterior styling that is more appealing than the Odyssey have swayed us to name the Routan the number 1 minivan for the year. Shame on Chrysler. Kudos to Volkswagen!! Welcome back to North America." _
The crack pipe has been removed.










_Modified by jsmyle1%@vw at 6:35 PM 2-9-2008_


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

*Re: (jsmyle1%@vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsmyle1%@vw* »_
The crack pipe has been removed.









haha, well, I may not be ready to hit _that_ pipe just yet. 
although I am curious to see how this thing is received by the press. and, of course, by consumers.


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (mhjett)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mhjett* »_Wow, I can't believe the slog of ridiculous comments in here. It really amazes me. I agree with Jamie's comments completely, and it's not because of the 'fanboi' in me, either. I will never be in the market for a mini-van, and yes this segment is dwindling, but there's still money to be made in it. From an objective perspective, the Routan is a surprisingly well-done platform-shared short-term product, and there's no better way VWoA could have pursued a more low-risk, high-return way to build some immediate profitability into the lineup. Which, if anyone in here actually had to foresight to step back and consider the bigger picture from a business-decision perspective, is a solid step towards being able to generate sales traffic, revenue and momentum to eventually expand their offerings in the US to include smaller cars, more TDIs, and other niche- and performance vehicles that all the whiners and fanbois on this site incessantly bitch and moan about. 
No doubt VWoA has some serious growth potential. No doubt they need to do some incredible work to get there. No doubt the management at VWoA knows and acknowledges this. But you can't fix something this big without taking calculated, intelligent, incremental steps to get there. I was just as skeptical as anyone about how bad this minivan project could turn out, but am honestly pleasantly surprised by the outcome, and see the Routan as a solid step in that right direction. I'm eager to watch the market reaction. 
Alright, I'm off my soapbox now; end of rant.









_Modified by mhjett at 2:12 PM 2-9-2008_

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## OOMPH (Nov 1, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (97JettaGLXVR6)*

i agree with jetta glx completely


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## gnukner (Feb 15, 2003)

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Ok, guys (and gals) let me put my two cents in on the Routan...
Inside changes were also substantial and very little of the original Chrysler Minivan is left outside of powertrain and overall shape.



http://www.vwvortex.com/galler...1.jpg
http://www.chrysler.com/shared...4.jpg
...other than reoriented vents, climate control (black plated on VW), some plastic moldings, and the badge on the steering wheel, I don't really see the difference. When was the last time you had a VW with twist stalk crap, lack of MFA on the right , and no rotary for manual seat adjustment? I just don't buy it. If you drive anything other than a VW (Now that I have switched to Subaru), you will be disoriented. If they're gonna source door pulls from a Passat, they should have done some minor mods with the stalks and controls at least. As someone said... tarted up Chrysler. A VW badge only goes so far.


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (OOMPH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOMPH* »_i agree with jetta glx completely

who? me? wow.


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

*Re: (gnukner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Ok, guys (and gals) let me put my two cents in on the Routan...
Inside changes were also substantial and very little of the original Chrysler Minivan is left outside of powertrain and overall shape.



_Quote, originally posted by *gnukner* »_
...other than reoriented vents, climate control (black plated on VW), some plastic moldings, and the badge on the steering wheel, I don't really see the difference. When was the last time you had a VW with twist stalk crap, lack of MFA on the right , and no rotary for manual seat adjustment? I just don't buy it. If you drive anything other than a VW (Now that I have switched to Subaru), you will be disoriented. If they're gonna source door pulls from a Passat, they should have done some minor mods with the stalks and controls at least. As someone said... tarted up Chrysler. A VW badge only goes so far.

whatever dude; your logic is flawed. Jamie said the changes from the Caravan to the Routan were extensive. This is true; the Routan has unique interior and exterior panels and materials. What you're saying is that Jamie's wrong because the Routan doesn't share interior parts from other VWs. 
There's a gaping hole is your logic chain. 
Your statement "...tarted up Chrysler" is more accurate. 




















_Modified by mhjett at 7:10 PM 2-9-2008_


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (OOMPH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOMPH* »_i agree with jetta glx completely

Me too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So based on all the positive reactions to the post made by *97JettaGLXVR6*, I hereby nominate him for President of the Routan Clan Fan Club!


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (mhjett)*

I like the genericness of the steering wheel and instrument cluster.








Over all on the interior - it's hard for me to make a judgement without having seen one in person and getting inside, but based on the photos - it is tarted up and it's not the most "Volkswagen-ish" design I've seen - it doesn't fit the current lineup. I would've expect a more Passat or Touareg design - so I am disappointed with that.
As for the stalks, are you really that surprised they weren't changed? I wasn't. And *gnukner* is right, it is going to disorient some people that have grown up with Volkswagens (like me), or people who already own newer models (Mk4 - 5, B5.5 - B6) whom expect certain things to be in certain places.
I guess some of the design changes, both interior and exterior, boils down to the contract Chrysler and Volkswagen signed to make this Routan possible.


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (mhjett)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mhjett* »_whatever dude; your logic is flawed.....

Don't bother. It's not worth it. There just seems to be many "individuals" out there that simply want to see VW fail.
Check out some of the personal signatures. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (jsmyle1%@vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsmyle1%@vw* »_
Me too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So based on all the positive reactions to the post made by *97JettaGLXVR6*, I hereby nominate him for President of the Routan Clan Fan Club!










Really? Wow, I feel special. *Plays 'Hail to the Chief'*


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (97JettaGLXVR6)*

BTW: The Routan page is coming up
http://www.vw.com/routan/en/us/ 
and - the Tiguan and Jetta SportWagen are now listed on the navi under 'Cars'


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (elmer fud)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elmer fud* »_so vwoa will give us a mini van they dont even make, but they still wont give me a sub compact, DAMM IT VWOA I WANT A LUPO, call it a fox or whatever I dont care, ... 

You should check out the UK and German VW websites - they already have a Fox _and_ a Polo - but I do agree - they should bring over the Polo - and the Golf Plus.
Linkage:
Fox of the UK: http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/fox/
Fox of Germany: http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms....html
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## soupy (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (mhjett)*

Sorry mhjett, I think its a little glassy-eyed to believe that a minivan holds the key to a revitalization of the VW brand in the U.S.. All my previous arguements stand. 
I believe that clean diesels across the full model lineup holds 5 times more promise than that.


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

*Re: (soupy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soupy* »_Sorry mhjett, I think its a little glassy-eyed to believe that a minivan holds the key to a revitalization of the VW brand in the U.S.. All my previous arguements stand. 
I believe that clean diesels across the full model lineup holds 5 times more promise than that.


I said it's one step towards the right direction; I didn't say it's the solution. 
Clean diesels across the lineup would be great; the immense time, cost and complexity of doing so given the strict US diesel regulations now in place means that's a little tougher than flipping a switch, especially when VWoA's operating at a loss. 


_Modified by mhjett at 8:55 PM 2-9-2008_


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## gti dreamn (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (mhjett)*

soooo.......when will Audi get their "Q5"????








after reading posts after mine, I still don't like the move VW made with the Routan. Regardless of how many times someone can justify the polishing of a turd, in the end, it is still a turd.
If VW wanted a minivan in the US market, why didn't develop one years ago?
Also, Honda developed their Pilot/MDX from the Odyssee chassis....so how come VW couldn't develop a minivan from the Toureg chassis. Same idea, just in reverse.
When one is going to be this late to the party, you need to bring something really really good. Spicing up a Chrysler minivan is not that really really good something. 
The awards the Chrysler vans have won don't mean jack squat for the VW version. Besides, the VW van is starting out as a T&C v1, while Chrysler's T&C is on v2 or v2.5. So, again, VW is behind in the game and it will take several years for them (VW) to catch up, only to be behind again.
Quality will get you quantity.


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## 99g07p (Feb 6, 2008)

Ah yes I love this Chrysler...Oh wait a minute, what did you say it was? A VW? It cant be.
I am ashamed to say that I own only VW vehicles..why VW? why?


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## 99g07p (Feb 6, 2008)

*Re: (97JettaGLXVR6)*

Again I agree with jettaglxvr6
It needed the Touareg design. I dont want to buy the americanized version of a VW. They should haved never teamed up. Its a crime to team up with the american cars


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (99g07p)*


_Quote, originally posted by *99g07p* »_Again I agree with jettaglxvr6
It needed the Touareg design. I dont want to buy the americanized version of a VW. They should haved never teamed up. Its a crime to team up with the american cars









Thanks for the agreement, but I still think the team up was a smart move on VW's part - for the first generation Routans - I'm praying that mid-way through this first model year or early next model year (2009 or 2010) VW would start offering their TDI motors to the Routans (so long as VW doesn't have to give Chrysler models the TDI - unless it is profitable favorable for Volkswagen) 

_Quote, originally posted by *evilc76* »_It's probably a good van. Atleast VW teamed up with people that have been winning at the van game. Why is mom and dad mini-van driver going to buy the VW version however? I don't see what makes the VW van different from the Chrysler. If VW tries to price this higher than the equivalent Chrysler van, this thing will fail.

Agreed - it will be well done, VW is tuning the suspension themselves - which is good news. If VW can get the suspension under control, it *could* be better than the Chrysler if the ride is better, and priced competitively against Japanese counterparts.
After all, to my knowledge, Volkswagen has been the only German manufacture to build and market a van to the U.S. market. I would say that the Mercedes Benz R-Class could be considered, but it's more of a cross-van-wagon-thing than an actual mini-van.
As an entry model under 25G, VW has a good standing to get early adopters in to 'base' models, and gives room for VW to up-sell the higher trim models (sunroof, leather, sat. radio [if it's not standard already], parking systems, sport-appearance options, etc.)
My fear is that VW is expanding their model line up too quickly this year - there are 5 all-new models due by summer of 2009 - including the Routan.
1. Routan - September 2008
2. Jetta SportWagen - Spring 2008
3. Tiguan - Spring 2008
4. Passat CC - 2009ish? (which is a whole other rave & rant of mine)
5. Scirocco - 2009ish?
So, it's not just the risk of one model - it's a risk of the whole line up. Will it make or break the company? I see that the Routan, Jetta Wagon, and Tiguan will give Volkswagen a better position in the U.S. Market - supplied with the right equipment (Clean TDIs!) Volkswagen could rise above some of it's Japanese and American counterparts.
People can complain day and night to me about why Chrysler is a bad partner, but remember this: At least VW isn't talking to Honda about the Fit being a new Polo GTI or Rabbit.












_Modified by 97JettaGLXVR6 at 12:59 AM 2-10-2008_


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## vasillalov (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: (veedubmac)*

...and that was the end of VW for me! My pride and joy of being a passionate VW owner is now crushed to smithereens because of this "people carrier" thingie with a VW badge on it.


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (vasillalov)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vasillalov* »_...and that was the end of VW for me! My pride and joy of being a passionate VW owner is now crushed to smithereens because of this "people carrier" thingie with a VW badge on it.

Bit extreme in my eyes. You could at least give the thing a test drive before having your 'pride and joy' being 'crushed to smithereens'.
But then again, if something like this crushes your pride and joy, then how much of a real VW enthusiast are (were) you? How about, waiting until you can make an honest judgement before - and this goes for *everyone* who's crushed by this partnership.
Take a chance to do some research here people. Let's look at the Chrysler Town & Country's history:
*Pre-1990* - the T&C was as station wagon from 1941 as a woodie-wagon, production stopped due to WWII - which is were VW got it's roots. From 1951 - 1977 the T&C was a full-size station wagon. From 1978 - 1981, the wagon shrunk to a compact wagon (think Jetta wagon). In 1982 - 1988 the name was used as a station wagon version on a K-Car platform. 
*1990 - Present* - The station wagon was killed off and they re-used the T&C name for a new mini-van. Chrysler has had nearly 20 years of trial-and-error and innovations to keep them above the rest of the market. 1988 - 1990 was the first generation and was a basic small van.
The 1991 - 1995, second generation, included innovations: Quad-Command bucket seating, driver and front passenger air-bags and side passenger air bags, all-wheel drive, and was the first mini-van to meet U.S. federal safety standards.
The 1996 - 2000, third generation added permanent all-wheel drive, new traction control system, and dual sliding doors were offered.
The 2001 - 2007, fourth generation gained foldable _Stow 'n Go_ second- and third-row seats.
the 2008 - Present, fifth generation - this is the one we're getting people. Chrysler gets the _Swivel N' Go_ seating, as well as pop-up table, MyGig Media Center and Navigation computer system with a 20GB hard drive (weak, I know), and - as in the forth generation, rear-seat entertainment systems with DVD players.
Over 20 years, 5 generations, experience with AWD systems, and awarded on countless items for many years - it just all adds up to be a well welcomed experience for Volkswagen. 
Check out the Wiki for Chrysler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...untry
and for the Routan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Routan


_Modified by 97JettaGLXVR6 at 8:41 PM 2-10-2008_


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## chris_18T (Jul 24, 2007)

i just saw it at the auto show, its not too half bad, looks more like a bigger tiguan.


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## mkwho (Jan 2, 2008)

ya know, when I first saw the new chrysler minivans passing by two of thier dealers as I do everyday I actually thought wow they made the caravan look realy nice - I mean being a GTI driver and only 26 years old I dont think ANY van really is "cool" but now that they are making a dub out of it I really don't know what to think - I mean loking at the caravan and saying it looked nice for a minivan and looking at the caravan and saying geez maybe vw should make one just like that ... no, just wouldnt cross my mind


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## schalkm (Feb 22, 2006)

*Looking for a replacement for my Sienna*

Against my better judgement, I was hoping to replace my Sienna with a VW van when its lease is up in June. I should have known better. I'll find an interim solution, and wait for the next Sienna.
I think the Routan at least looks better that the Chrysler, but unfortunately that's only skin deep. Its heart and lungs still remain Chrysler, and I don't want any of that sitting in my driveway.
I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum who has a van in the household, so it would be interesting to have a poll to see who would buy the Routan. I've never started a poll, so if I don't succeed, maybe someone else can do it?


_Modified by schalkm at 5:55 PM 2-10-2008_


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## Volcombug (Feb 19, 2006)

I can see that most people don't like it. i wasn't sure if I would like it but I really do. It's a lot better looking then the Chrysler.


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (chris_18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris_18T* »_i just saw it at the auto show, its not too half bad, looks more like a bigger tiguan.

Awesome - so it will be at the auto-show here in May







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Was it on a turn-table or on display to sit in and 'try out'?
Was the Tiguan there too? I assume the Jetta SportWagen will be.


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (Volcombug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volcombug* »_I can see that most people don't like it. i wasn't sure if I would like it but I really do. It's a lot better looking then the Chrysler.

It's amazing what sheet-metal and headlights can do. I saw a new Dodge Caravan earlier today and thought "Damn, that front-end it really boxy, kinda ugly actually."
Thank God the Routan is a more refined style. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chris_18T (Jul 24, 2007)

*Re: (97JettaGLXVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *97JettaGLXVR6* »_
Awesome - so it will be at the auto-show here in May







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Was it on a turn-table or on display to sit in and 'try out'?
Was the Tiguan there too? I assume the Jetta SportWagen will be.

yes, the routan was on the turntable, there were two tiguans there, 1 was the SE and the other was the SEL, you can sit in both. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Mr. EüroMatt (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (chris_18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris_18T* »_
yes, the routan was on the turntable, there were two tiguans there, 1 was the SE and the other was the SEL, you can sit in both. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Very cool - I'm looking forward to it.


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## jimlockey (Feb 17, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (alvint_vw)*

Need to add a diesel


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## mnman (Apr 20, 2000)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (jimlockey)*

No TDI = no thanks.


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## 2.0Tjetta (Apr 26, 2002)

Why not just add the 3rd row seats to the Toureg already. Thats where VW is really missing out. The 7 seat SUV Market. I need 7 seats for my family of 6. Until VW brings out their own van or 7 seater i will continue to put the fanily in the Passat and drive along side in the Rabbit GTI. I understand VAG doesnt want to compete the Toureg against the Q7 but come on, the Q7 is in a price league of its own. I Dont believe the people who can afford them will step down to VW.

_Modified by 2.0Tjetta at 12:45 AM 2-12-2008_


_Modified by 2.0Tjetta at 12:47 AM 2-12-2008_


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## argh32 (Apr 8, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan ([email protected])*

VW is on a roll here! 
Just imagine a Chrysler 300 AWD Hemi with a VW badge on the front! Or the new Challenger Hemi with a VW badge on the front and huge VW stickers on the side!! Oh yeah...we're rolling now in the new VW(PT) Cruiser.....
These are the cars that VW owners really want to drive. Just put VW badging on them and we are hooked. We don't need no stinkin' Roco"







Think of all the money they could save.


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## QUATTR0 (Dec 1, 2005)

*Re: (2.0Tjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0Tjetta* »_Why not just add the 3rd row seats to the Toureg already. Thats where VW is really missing out. The 7 seat SUV Market. I need 7 seats for my family of 6. Until VW brings out their own van or 7 seater i will continue to put the fanily in the Passat and drive along side in the Rabbit GTI. I understand VAG doesnt want to compete the Toureg against the Q7 but come on, the Q7 is in a price league of its own. I Dont believe the people who can afford them will step down to VW.

Then just get a Q7, the Q7 is actually not much more than the Touareg:
Touareg 3.6: $39,320
Q7 3.6: $42,500


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## vroor32 (Mar 17, 2006)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (mnman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mnman* »_No TDI = no thanks.


DITTO ^^
First rule of "carving out a niche" is to offer something no-one has offered before...VW TOTALLY DROPPED THE BALL HERE.








I have been reading somewhere that Honda Odyssey is coming out with a DIESEL in 2009 so WHY NOT VW???
http://minivans.about.com/b/20...y.htm
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.c...69a0e
I am already in the market to replace my LR Discovery II with a van, and the Honda Odyssey was number 1 choice...until I read about the diesel option...so now I am postponing the purchase till the diesel version comes out.
If the VW Van came in diesel, I would readily fork out $40 large, but it seems I will keep my eyes set into the Honda product line....


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## JTAshman (Oct 25, 2004)

That's got to be the lamest thing I've ever seen with a VW logo on it. Maybe even the lamest thing with any German logo on it. What's the point?!? To show that VW can be as boring as any American company? I'm completely without VW products for the first time in a long time because they refuse to build what I want, but try to push crap like this.


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## elmer fud (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

dieser Kombi ist Mopar Scheiße










_Modified by elmer fud at 10:35 PM 2-14-2008_


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## elmer fud (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Rob, are you willing to pay $18,000 for a Fox or $32,000 for a Polo? That is the US equivalent of what those cars cost in Germany. Their design, engineering, and construction are financed in Euros. Sub-compacts have the slimmest profit margins. There is NO WAY those cars could be shipped over and sold in US dollars at a profit. VW is losing money on the base model Rabbits sold here as it is. Yet everyone seems to think that a Fox or Polo could be exported as a competitor to the $9000 Chevy Aveo.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love a VW sub-compact, too. I said on these forums several years ago that if VW ever offered us a $15,000 compact car, I'd go buy it. I never thought that day would come, but it did. I want VW to be successful here; like Jamie mentioned above, I am excited about some of the niche market product that's being discussed.
But to do that, VW needs profitable vehicles that will drive traffic into their showrooms. The Routan has that potential. 

_Modified by [email protected] at 7:00 PM 2-8-2008_

look at the british price (converted to us dollors) of a golf it cost way more then what we pay , I cant remeber what they said in pvw but i think it was mid 40k for a gti converted to us dollors. 
and yes I would pay 18k for a "fox" lupo it it had a decent motor it it. like a 1.8t like there gti (would also save vw cash as they allready have brought that motor over) I have been sayin for 2 years that if they brought a sub compact over i would buy it, I have been thinking about buying a yaris, but I keep holing out for VWOA to pull there head out off there........

I still satnd buy the fact that this is a real dumb idea purely based on the techs haveing to repair this thing. every vw shop is now going to need a mopar sp tool room. including a new scan tool ect. and every vw certifyed tech will need to go to mopar school to learn how to fix it right. 

I KNOW I WORK FOR SAAB, look at our line up 97-x(GM)92-x(subaru) you know what its like for us to fix those cars http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif we do a good job but everything is different, scan tools, fuel line disconnect tools, ect, hell our tire machine barely can spin stocl 20inch wheels (97x areo) . lol or sp tool room has gotten out of control and the worse part it our shop is so small we cant afford all the tools. 

anyways im done, vw doesn't care what I (or apparently any of there cust) think, so why spend all this time yaping about it. 
Cherise pm a response if you want but im not coming back to this thread. 
peace all. 


_Modified by elmer fud at 10:27 PM 2-14-2008_


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

The all new sheet metal comments are marketing double talk.
These two statements say the same thing:
"The sheet metal is completely different, except the side doors and roof."
"The sheet metal is the same except the hood, roof, hatch and fenders."
So 5 panels stayed the same and 7 panels changed, and it looks just like a Dodge because you can't sheetmetal engineer around the hard points of a chassis.
It looks like a Dodge with VW lights and badge to me. The interior does not look as substantially different as folks would like to state (but I could not get inside the van at the show). I understand why VW chose this route, and regret that they could not get their poop in a group some time in the past decade so that they were not forced into offering this weak product and damaging thier brand image.
The bottom line is that you can clearly see that it is a rebadged Dodge, and that the Dodge powertrains will not match the refinement of typical VW/Audi power plants. This is what it takes for them to get into a now shrinking market, while damaging the brand image.
Too bad.


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## fibes (Feb 5, 2005)

Microbus killed the look and design of this Routan. I am starting a poll.
Routan=








I know the Routan is probably more appealing to the mass US market though.


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## i81b4u (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (fibes)*

Good god, I just waded through 6 pages of whining over what essentially is an excellent minivan to say the least. This van surely isn't aimed at esciting the pube school mod squad, is there a van out there that is?
I test drove a Eurovan MV some years ago and it's pukish response drove me away from it. Back then I didn't have quite the same need for the seatroom the van offers as I do now, all I can say for the Routan is that it is about time, and having liked the Dodge version for what it is, the Routan shines.
The obvious negatives are the dumb name, and horrid fuel economy from a vehicle labled as a MINI van.
I've owned a 71 transporter, and an 81' Vanagon in the past, and I die laughing everytime I see some version of these great coveted relics selling for $30,000.00 on the Samba (usually with a Subaru motor no less!). Nice minivan, finally a new 7 passenger VW on the market for "plus" size families.


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## vibes099 (Jul 23, 2007)

*Re: (Pelican18TQA4)*

I keep my cars 5 to 10 years and look to the warranty. I think the days of wasting 30k by replacing your car every 3 years are over. I'd get the Chrysler with the swivel and go seating and the removable table. I relish the idea of being able for my wife to play with my kid on long trips with the table for games and eating. If someone came up with a camper add on to the back of the Chrysler they'd have a real winner in my mind. I think that the VW is nice, but the Chrysler wins for innovation and warranty, and really those who get minivans in the first place, that's what they look to, not zippy handling or cream leather interiors which would only get ruined quickly by small hands.


_Modified by vibes099 at 2:24 PM 2-20-2008_


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## fibes (Feb 5, 2005)

small hands can ruin any interior


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## dsharry (Feb 18, 1999)

*Re: (vibes099)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vibes099* »_If someone came up with a camper add on to the back of the Chrysler they'd have a real winner in my mind.









http://www.tentsontrucks.com/SUV-Minivan.htm
My local Dodge/Chrysler dealer has exactly that. They have a base model Caravan with a pop-tent attached to the rear of the van. With the rear seats folded flat and the tent set up, it is pretty impressive.
It's too bad the RES doesn't swivel so you could sit in the rear-facing seats and watch a show.


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## vibes099 (Jul 23, 2007)

*Re: (dsharry)*

Very neat minivan tent, with the Chryslers swivel chairs and table it would open up the space of the entire back for the tent. Of course, it's not the purpose built Van that VW offers elsewhere, like this:
http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/california/
Or this
http://www.volkswagen.com.au/v....html
I just don't get it actually. VW can afford to make a great kid carrier, load hauler, camping weekend fun machine in markets such as Britain and Australia, but only in North America do they decide to undifferentiate themselves from the pack by building a straight passenger carrier. Only in the largest automarket in the world, and only in the largest RV market in the world would they decide it's cost ineffective to offer something like the California. They sell the Caddy for 29K with a TDI in Australia (in USD) and would be undercutting vehicles which are selling quite well at 50-100k by offering a cheaper alternative, but there is simply no business case for it here? We have more RV parks than the rest of the world combined, but it doesn't make sense for them to offer the vehicle that they do elsewhere? Every single camper VAN was recieved with quotes like:
" stole the hearts of everyone who attended" and "the talk of the show floor, among media and the public alike, was, "Didja see that totally cool VW van?!" Since when did making a product that is only marginally different than everything else make good business sense?


_Modified by vibes099 at 9:15 AM 2-22-2008_


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## benellile (Jun 3, 2007)

*Re: (veedubmac)*

As a Eurovan driver the Mopar solution is nooo gooood for me. I can roll two motorcycles into my GLS (without the seats) and motor down the highway sunfoof opened and tunes playing with great vision over the traffic. This Mopar unit won't do for me.


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (benellile)*


_Quote, originally posted by *benellile* »_As a Eurovan driver the Mopar solution is nooo gooood for me. I can roll two motorcycles into my GLS (without the seats) and motor down the highway sunfoof opened and *tunes playing *with great vision over the traffic. This Mopar unit won't do for me.

With your OEM 6-disc CD changer and SAT radio?


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## redneckdzl (Jun 26, 2007)

If it's anything the same as the 08 Chrysler Van, It's definantly not going to be VW enough to get people to buy the higher priced VW edition when the chrysler one comes the same.
Now if it had a diesel, well then that would be a completely different story, but I digress


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (redneckdzl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redneckdzl* »_If it's anything the same as the 08 Chrysler Van, It's definantly not going to be VW enough to get people to buy the higher priced VW edition when the chrysler one comes the same.
Now if it had a diesel, well then that would be a completely different story, but I digress

All indications are the VW version will have a significantly lower base price that the T&C.
As for the interior... it's VW exclusive.


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## xzero109 (May 13, 2006)

http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Pizza Cat (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_
As for the interior... it's VW exclusive.

it may be "vw exclusive" in the sense that it's slightly different than the caravan/t&c interior...but that is by no means a vw interior. it's just plain awful.
and it still all comes down to that lifetime powertrain warranty...why buy the vw when you can get the dodge at the same price, and not have to worry about when something craps out at 65k miles? (if i was 35 and had a 5 and 2 year old, i'd care of course







)


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: (Rabbit5GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbit5GTI* »_it may be "vw exclusive" in the sense that it's slightly different than the caravan/t&c interior...*but that is by no means a vw interior. it's just plain awful.....*

Please elaborate.....
I can't say for certain, but I believe VW's engineers must have spent a good amount of time redesigning the interior to be more VW. Obviously there are limitations.....and before anyone says it.....NO....VW could not have put the T5's dash and interior into the Routan!!








As far as the interior being "awful." Is that minivans in general, or just this one because you think VW sold out?.......Just curious

_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbit5GTI* »_....and it still all comes down to that lifetime powertrain warranty...why buy the vw when you can get the dodge at the same price, and not have to worry about when something craps out at 65k miles? (if i was 35 and had a 5 and 2 year old, i'd care of course







)

As far as this whole issue of the lifetime powertrain warranty.....should a consumer who plans on leasing a minivan for three years really be concerned?


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## Pizza Cat (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (jsmyle1%@vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsmyle1%@vw* »_
Please elaborate.....
I can't say for certain, but I believe VW's engineers must have spent a good amount of time redesigning the interior to be more VW. Obviously there are limitations.....and before anyone says it.....NO....VW could not have put the T5's dash and interior into the Routan!!








As far as the interior being "awful." Is that minivans in general, or just this one because you think VW sold out?.......Just curious
As far as this whole issue of the lifetime powertrain warranty.....should a consumer who plans on leasing a minivan for three years really be concerned? 

i know a T5 dash would be unfeasible for this, but it would have been nice to see some MkV / B6 treatments in there...i see nothing but a chrysler gauge cluster and other american influence in there.
and as for the warranty, there are still some families out there that can't afford to buy or lease a new car every 3 years.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Rabbit5GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbit5GTI* »_
but that is by no means a vw interior. it's just plain awful.

When did you see it?


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## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

IMHO, the interior is pretty nice - as far as the touch and feel and attention to detail. Way more modern than the Eurovan.







The pictures really don't do it justice.
And thank heavens it doesn't have the Stow-N-Go (sorry current Dodge/Chrysler owners) second row seats. The VW versions are way better looking and more comfortable.
And does anybody really 100% certain for sure know that it won't have a warranty similar the the Chrysler's? This is just speculation among the naysayers.










_Modified by vwbugstuff at 7:58 PM 3-6-2008_


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## JTAshman (Oct 25, 2004)

WTF would anyone buy a warmed over Chrysler from VW?!? VW's name doesn't scream "great minivans!" exactly. If VW made a minivan and Chrysler put its name on it, it would sell. But this is the stupidest idea yet coming out of Germany and yet another complete disconnect with the American market. I'd rather have a warmed over Eurovan.


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## pete643 (Apr 23, 2003)

Does anyone know if the quality of the sheet metal matches VW's all galvanized construction, and will it offer the same 12 year corrosion warranty?


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (Rabbit5GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbit5GTI* »_
i know a T5 dash would be unfeasible for this, but it would have been nice to see some MkV / B6 treatments in there...i see nothing but a chrysler gauge cluster and other american influence in there.
and as for the warranty, there are still some families out there that can't afford to buy or lease a new car every 3 years. 

It does have a B6 treatment on the dash design, however it uses all Chrysler corp components.


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## Ripdubski (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (dubious311)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubious311* »_Oh man this is the biggest let down volkswagen has done. Volkswagen finally brings back a minivan they give us this monstrosity instead of building something based off of this concept








Are you kidding me???

Yu.. I'd rock the concept above in a heartbeat!


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## 2008cc (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (SidRipper)*

from the vw website....

Here's how our warranty compares with some others out there.*
Manufacturer Basic Powertrain
Volkswagen 3 year / 36,000 mi. 5 year / 60,000 mi.
Nissan 3 year / 36,000 mi. 5 year / 60,000 mi.
Toyota 3 year / 36,000 mi. 5 year / 60,000 mi.
Honda 3 year / 36,000 mi. 5 year / 60,000 mi.
Mercedez-Benz 4 year / 50,000 mi. 4 year / 50,000 mi.
Legal Disclaimer
funny they dont compare it to its twin.


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## QUATTR0 (Dec 1, 2005)

I wonder if it will have VW's level of paint finish... the paint quality on the Chrysler vans I've seen are horrid.
Will find out soon enough... they should be arriving at dealers in the next couple of weeks.


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## sdvolksGTi (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (evilc76)*

People are having Routan Babies for german engineering and not for love.


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (sdvolksGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdvolksGTi* »_ People are having Routan Babies for german engineering and not for love.









It's vhat the people vant!








She's still a hottie though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ......even if Steffi _does_ have nicer legs!


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## QUATTR0 (Dec 1, 2005)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (jsmyle1%@vw)*

Routan R!


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## 2008cc (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (QUATTR0)*

that r looks pretty good.......


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## sdvolksGTi (Sep 17, 2007)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (SidRipper)*

X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## noface (Jan 5, 2006)

the r version totaly changes how i feel about the van all together....


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## noface (Jan 5, 2006)

if it atleast had a vw motor .... r36 2.0t tdi we'd all love it ......


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## BHB (Oct 26, 2004)

*Re: (noface)*


_Quote, originally posted by *noface* »_if it atleast had a vw motor .... r36 2.0t tdi we'd all love it ......

or....


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## ABAcabby (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Chicago 2008: Volkswagen Unveils Routan (dubious311)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubious311* »_Oh man this is the biggest let down volkswagen has done. Volkswagen finally brings back a minivan they give us this monstrosity instead of building something based off of this concept








Are you kidding me???

was looking to post the same thing exactly. the world would be just that much better if it were the microbus in the routans place.


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