# A3 sedan not selling as well as expected?



## jettadude (Jan 4, 2000)

I just talked to a buddy who oversees a 10 state territory for sales of the luxury brand of one of the major Japanese car makers.

I learned two things from him:

1. MB can't keep enough CLAs in stock to keep up with demand (not news to me or many on this forum).

2. The new A3 is not selling as well as expected with inventories growing at dealers.

Can anyone corroborate the second point re: A3s? I did a scan of inventories of dealers in my NorCal area (6-7 shops) and they all seem to have healthy supplies of A3s in stock.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

jettadude said:


> I just talked to a buddy who oversees a 10 state territory for sales of the luxury brand of one of the major Japanese car makers.
> 
> I learned two things from him:
> 
> ...


the car just came out...the CLA has been out since what, last September...


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

I still think they waited to long to launch the car. Yes the demand high for CLA but they are having a ton of quality issue, engine light, driver assist malfunction , Eco mode car shutting of into safety mod at 70mph , oil leaks, seat issue getting loose , car lurching forward dangerously when at a stop and letting go of the brake pedal. So yeah they have a few issue and that's why I never bough a used one because the amount of low miles used CLAs out there must indicate something's not right.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> the car just came out...the CLA has been out since what, last September...


As I alluded in another thread, I still think the A3 isn't meeting expectations. The CLA has been tough to buy in many areas since it dropped in September. The A3 is already seeing discount activity all over the place.

Sometimes the best car just doesn't have the best numbers. I refuse to leave Audi fault-free in this one, either. I don't believe that the A3 would be constantly sold out and the CLA would be collecting dust if the A3 launched in September and the CLA launched in April, but I can't imagine the A3 would be stumbling as much as some of us perceive.

My post in the other thread was a WAG, and now we have at least something to add some color to that.


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## The Car Czar (Apr 4, 2014)

Well ... The inventories speak volumes.

But they have built it. It is excellent. They will come.

(Rock-solid coming up on one month. CLA vs. A3 might be a retelling of _The Tortoise and the Hare_).


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## Taintted (Jan 25, 2014)

Maybe their decision to promote a sedan version of the A3 wasnt a smart one. They should offer to us what they do in Europe with all the Audi and VW models.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Taintted said:


> Maybe their decision to promote a sedan version of the A3 wasnt a smart one. They should offer to us what they do in Europe with all the Audi and VW models.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Yeahhhhh... not so sure about that. We are getting the sportback TDI; that should cover a majority of the need case for the sportback.

We are already going to be getting more variants than we probably should be- A3 sedan, S3 sedan, A3 cabriolet, A3 e-tron sportback, A3 TDI sportback, Q3...



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Taintted (Jan 25, 2014)

Dan Halen said:


> Yeahhhhh... not so sure about that. We are getting the sportback TDI; that should cover a majority of the need case for the sportback.
> 
> We are already going to be getting more variants than we probably should be- A3 sedan, S3 sedan, A3 cabriolet, A3 e-tron sportback, A3 TDI sportback, Q3...
> 
> ...


Yes I agree we have more variants than we probably should have but the option to have the same options they offer in Europe is all I'm asking for rather than forcing us into only a limited amount of choices per variant.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Just got back from my two week trip in Taiwan, and I see nothing has changed :laugh:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

jrwamp said:


> Just got back from my two week trip in Taiwan, and I see nothing has changed :laugh:


Yep. Audi still can't seem to locate their S3 pricing. :thumbup:


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Face it the...

CLA has those really striking looks, yes to some they hate it, but it would attract a lot of buyers, in your face Merc-style, not case with A3, I love the styling but at end of day it is pretty mild, a smaller nimble A4.

CLA is a Merc, the cheapest out there by far, Mercedes compared to Audi, Mercedes is seen as an expensive luxury car, the Audi more a Premium brand.

CLA really had a tremendous marketing push and marketing strategy, I recall seeing that first commercial and being really impressed, I can't imagine all the people who were big Merc styling fans, but thought of expensive E-class old man cars then saw that and went ooooooh.

CLA first to market, all those buyers who were looking at this type of car, jumped in, A3 late to the game. 

CLA did not have the level of fumbles the A3 has had, and man they have had a lot, just a really soft launch IMO.

So what, I personally would rather less people by the car I own. Long term will tell the tale, the A3 is simply a better all around car, internals mean a lot. A3 feels built up, the CLA feels built down, if that makes any sense.

Anyhoo, forget about that 6% discount, bigger discounts are already to be had on 1.8 and 2.0, I already have a quote for $3G off msrp on a car without any real fight for it that has been barely on the market, wow, so I say everyone take advantage, competition is always good for the consumer.

One solution we could see are really aggressive Lease deals. 

B.


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## HX_Guy (Oct 11, 2001)

I just hope it doesnt translate to Audi not bringing over certain cars because they feel the demand is not there, like the A3 e-tron or thinking twice about the TDI.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> As I alluded in another thread, I still think the A3 isn't meeting expectations. The CLA has been tough to buy in many areas since it dropped in September. The A3 is already seeing discount activity all over the place.
> 
> Sometimes the best car just doesn't have the best numbers. I refuse to leave Audi fault-free in this one, either. I don't believe that the A3 would be constantly sold out and the CLA would be collecting dust if the A3 launched in September and the CLA launched in April, but I can't imagine the A3 would be stumbling as much as some of us perceive.
> 
> My post in the other thread was a WAG, and now we have at least something to add some color to that.


what could Audi have done differently? Other than release the car earlier?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> what could Audi have done differently? Other than release the car earlier?


I suspect the answer to that question is probably pretty deep. On the surface (literally), they probably could have made the car more ostentatious. I appreciate that they didn't do that, though. I'd buy a CLA if I wanted "new money" tacky.

It's probably more of a combination of what's been alluded to in other threads- delayed introduction and downright schatty lease terms. This segment leases. Period. Play the game, or lose ground. To be fair, I don't particularly _want_ the A3 to be as mainstream as a 3-series. However, I'm holding Audi to what they claim the want the A3 to be and to do, and at that, initial indications aren't favorable.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

caliatenza said:


> what could Audi have done differently? Other than release the car earlier?


Offer a manual.

Offer a sportback.

Offer a diesel at launch (or even with AWD).

Market the car much differently.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> I suspect the answer to that question is probably pretty deep. On the surface (literally), they probably could have made the car more ostentatious. I appreciate that they didn't do that, though. I'd buy a CLA if I wanted "new money" tacky.
> 
> It's probably more of a combination of what's been alluded to in other threads- delayed introduction and downright schatty lease terms. This segment leases. Period. Play the game, or lose ground. To be fair, I don't particularly _want_ the A3 to be as mainstream as a 3-series. However, I'm holding Audi to what they claim the want the A3 to be and to do, and at that, initial indications aren't favorable.


i'm thinking lease terms will get better...


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## HX_Guy (Oct 11, 2001)

I think just marketing. I've seen one print ad in Motor Trend I think but that's it, nothing on TV or anywhere else about it. I doubt most people even know about it.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

I don't think Audi was late to launch the A3, I think they launched too _early _in the US. They need to get sline and S3 models on the ground, out and about, to get noticed. I don't think the A3 was quite ready to put it's "best foot forward" but, to stay competitive, they had to launch anyway. It'll get better with time, but it doesn't/wouldn't surprise me at all if the initial allotments weren't flying off the lots. They need to make the sline more attainable (not a $40k+ entry price though competing cars will cost similar or more) and/or get the S3 asap.


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## jettadude (Jan 4, 2000)

HX_Guy said:


> I think just marketing. I've seen one print ad in Motor Trend I think but that's it, nothing on TV or anywhere else about it. I doubt most people even know about it.


Are you kidding? The A3 TV commercials with Ricky Gervais have been on all the time over the past month-plus.


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## jettadude (Jan 4, 2000)

caliatenza said:


> what could Audi have done differently? Other than release the car earlier?


They could have designed the exterior not to look like a pure mini version of an A4 / A6. That would have been a start.


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## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

They could have made it actually nimble like its being billed to be. 

I test drove the A3 to see if I liked the ergonomics and visibility of the vehicle since I'm interested in ordering an S3. What I expected was something that was tight and sporty that I could toss around turns and flit in and out of traffic. What I drove was something that was loose and sloppy. Now in all fairness, I didn't notice if the demo car I drove had the sport suspension or not but after driving a G35 and two G37s the last few years which are bigger, heavier sedans I was shocked when I stomped on the A3 on the interstate on-ramp and had to let off the gas when steering started to loosen up as the car rolled away from the turn. My G's feel like they are on rails, I was expecting the same with the A3 and it really concerns me.

The A3/S3's appeal to me and have me considering jumping off the Infiniti ship because they actually hold a similar performance/cost value that Infiniti won me over with back in the 2007 time frame. I came over from BMW at that time and Infiniti lost that value with their latest Q50 sedans so I really hope the S3 can preserve that value or I'll be on the hunt again.

Now to figure out how to test drive an S3.....


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## HX_Guy (Oct 11, 2001)

jettadude said:


> Are you kidding? The A3 TV commercials with Ricky Gervais have been on all the time over the past month-plus.


Not here...but then again I don't watch that much TV and when I do, it's usually real estate shows on HGTV, Million Dollar Listing or Castle on ABC.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

caliatenza said:


> what could Audi have done differently? Other than release the car earlier?


a couple things:

1) making their cheapest car looks like an exact imitation of the next cheapest car, while also not being signficantly cheaper than that cheap car, was a mistake. If it had looked like, oh, I don't know, a TT or A7 or anything else, it would have done better.

2) the sedan bodystyle was a mistake. I know the sportback was never a huge seller, but then Audi never tried to sell it, so we'll never know. If Audi wanted to make up for interior space losses, they should have made it a hatch like the A7, complete with the flip-up spoiler, that would have worked.

3) it should have had a longer wheelbase and mre rear seat room. They're looking to move these things for young women and men, in late 20's and early 30's, the first thing either look at is the back seat, and whether or not it will hold a dor and/or baby seat. so FAIL. 

4) reinforing #2, the trunk is untenable. I stood in teh Audi booth at NYIAS for nearly half an hour, I can't tell you how many disgusted looks I saw on everyone who opened the trunk. it's useless.

5) no stick transmission. YES I know it's not a huge seller, or even a tiny seller, but it's street cred and it's worth it to have. the party faithful rightly sneered at the shifter.

6) A FRIGGIN WAGON DAMMIT! the sportback is OK, but at NYIAS, you_should_have_seen_the_crowd around that blue VW Golf Sportwagen with 4Motion and a stick. The VW reps were beaming while people lined up to sit in the wagon more than the Golf R. They blatantly said to my face that Audi has dropped the wagon torch, and people are asking for it back. The A3 TDI sportback should have been built from the Golf Estate metric, PERIOD.

and lastly, I called it called it called it that the new A3 would not be the hit Audi thought it would be. They totally misunderstand the segment


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## trueunion (Apr 15, 2008)

The car has been out for less than a month and you are saying MB CLA has better sales??? Give it the same time to sell than make a comparison on sales. The A3 will do great for Audi.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

caliatenza said:


> the car just came out...the CLA has been out since what, last September...


Your point goes to Merc really.... CLA has been out for a while and they still cant build enough.... A3 just came out and inventory is piling up...... If this is the case Audi wont be happy at all.... No company puts out a product wanting a slow start....

Personally my money is on the A3 and slowly moving to the S3..... Maybe there is buyers like me who is waiting till next year to pick one up, that's affecting sales.... Bad sales is good for me personally, probably lead to a price drop in the future or more options included


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Boosted 01 R said:


> Your point goes to Merc really.... CLA has been out for a while and they still cant build enough.... A3 just came out and inventory is piling up...... If this is the case Audi wont be happy at all.... No company puts out a product wanting a slow start....
> 
> Personally my money is on the A3 and slowly moving to the S3..... Maybe there is buyers like me who is waiting till next year to pick one up, that's affecting sales.... Bad sales is good for me personally, probably lead to a price drop in the future or more options included


yeah, but by next year, the A3 will look dated sitting next to the 2016 A4. 
Quiet frankly, and I've said this before, the 320 is the best deal of the new entry level bunch, and while I don't like the CLA, it looks like nothing other than a CLS, and if you're gonna make a cheap car, it's a good idea to style it after one of your most expensive cars, which clearly works. 
The CLA stand in the MB booth at NAIAS was completely mobbed.


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## bobsmith872 (Apr 15, 2014)

caliatenza said:


> what could Audi have done differently? Other than release the car earlier?


I would love to buy a Gray 2.0T A3 with no additional packages for a little below MSRP. Unfortunately the only place I can find that type of car for that price is 1000 miles away. My local Audi dealership got eight 2.0 A3s and eight 1.8 A3s. Every single one of the 2.0 A3 came with an Aluminum Style Package (+$450), the Cold Weather Package (+$500), and 18" wheels (+$800) for an extra $1750. Every single one of those 2.0 A3s sold in the first week for MSRP. Out of the eight 1.8 A3s, only 1 sold in the first month.

It seems that Audi loaded up the first wave of 2.0 A3s with option packages and there is enough demand for the car that people are paying it. I don't think many people are going to buy 1.8 A3s. The engine upgrade and AWD are easily worth $3k.

What could Audi have done differently? Send out a lot more 2.0 A3s, and make at least some of them basic (no packages).


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## Trumpet Rider (Apr 19, 2014)

FractureCritical said:


> yeah, but by next year, the A3 will look dated sitting next to the 2016 A4.
> Quiet frankly, and I've said this before, the 320 is the best deal of the new entry level bunch.... (snip)


But but but....a 320 with leather, cold weather package and sunroof is north of $37k which is some $5k more than a 1.8T FWD which has sunroof and leather standard. A 320xi is way more than a 2.0 Quattro -and has 30 less horsepower. 
Bigger yes, but....the best deal of the new entry-level bunch? 
I don't think so!


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

As Dan pointed out earlier: some 60% of buyers in this segment lease. 

The other problem is that the A3 is simply not an emotional purchase. Mercedes has two huge trump cards in the volume play: the looks and the brand recognition. 

Now that all said, we don't even have the first months' numbers yet - just some speculation. Second, _it's the first full month of sales._

The old A3 hardly cracked 500 units per month. I imagine we'll see double that figure, if not more.


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

Truly, people are being a bit short-sighted. If people are buying a CLA for just the looks, when would they upgrade past the CLA? I admit, I saw the new A4 and was impressed with what they're putting into it as base. While the A3 is far better for me now, I could see an A4 in the future if they've gotten rid of the CVT.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

FractureCritical said:


> ...while I don't like the CLA, it looks like nothing other than a CLS, and if you're gonna make a cheap car, it's a good idea to style it after one of your most expensive cars, which clearly works.


I was going to say exactly this.

The CLA is a mini CLS and looks striking. If you didn't know better you would think it's an 70k car (and THIS is what "young" people are leasing (not buying), Fake-Rich status). The A3 is indistinguishingly different than an A4 which is as boring a sedan as you could ever find. Personally I like boring, but they missed the market segment they were goibng after.

Add to this being 8 months late to market with non-competitive lease terms and it's a recipe for disaster.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

My local dealer has sold zero. That's zero- the oblong thing that looks somewhat like the letter “o."

When I asked if that was expected, he seemed to feel somewhat puzzled but not concerned. He did offer that the configs they were forced to take as launch stock are probably part of the issue. I should have asked about traffic but didn't think to at the time.

As an aside, Lotus Grey is worth a look if you want an interesting grey/silver. It's actually borderline striking in person.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> My local dealer has sold zero. That's zero- the oblong thing that looks somewhat like the letter “o."


Ouch.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Dan Halen said:


> My local dealer has sold zero. That's zero- the oblong thing that looks somewhat like the letter “o."
> 
> When I asked if that was expected, he seemed to feel somewhat puzzled but not concerned. He did offer that the configs they were forced to take as launch stock are probably part of the issue. I should have asked about traffic but didn't think to at the time.
> 
> ...


One of my local dealers sold 15/16 of their first batch of cars within 1 month.


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

Shows what happens when you stop keeping up with the news. I didn't even realize the A3 was out. I have seen ads with Ricky Gervais but usually as a I fast forward through the commercials. Nothing jumped out at me that it was for the A3 or I would have watched it. I will have to keep my eyes out for it.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Don't forget one of the A3 's from the dealers went into the loaner service department


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## t.oorboh! (Feb 11, 2012)

FractureCritical said:


> a couple things:
> 
> 1) making their cheapest car looks like an exact imitation of the next cheapest car, while also not being signficantly cheaper than that cheap car, was a mistake. If it had looked like, oh, I don't know, a TT or A7 or anything else, it would have done better.
> 
> ...


agree 100% on all points.

+ the interior isn't very impressive (imo and those i went to the auto show with). + audi music interface. really? GTFO. gimme a usb port, sd card slot or aux in at least. and who's going to pay for an additional mobile data account for their car? 

if they bring the sportback 2.0t quattro i might reconsider. if it's stick, then i'll very likely get one. but they'll have to offer it before the golf R or sportwagen get here cause that's my next purchase (a 3 series touring is in play also).


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Ouch.


Yeah, and I'm not exactly in a small market.

We were looking over the demos of some of the other Audis, and it was clear that, in most of the segments, the Audi buyer has the highest annual income. He stated that one of the reasons is Audi's reluctance to play the lease game. 

It's all coming back to the topic a year ago- whether Audi would play the lease game or would look to gain the more affluent buyer at the entry level. I think the presence (and abundance) of 1.8T FWD cars has most of us thinking they want to play the volume game, but their actions (lease terms) don't corroborate that. To be fair, we're really only basing our criticisms of perceived early volume on their own word that the A3 would be the brand's volume play.

We're going smack into prime buying season for much of the country right now. I suspect they have a very limited number of weeks before tensions are high and tempers are flaring in Herndon.

To be honest, I really still don't want to see them making the volume play with cheap, subsidized leases. I can't fathom that it's best for the brand long-term if they like their current demos. They'll have no choice if they flood the market with 1.8T cars, though.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

brennok said:


> Shows what happens when you stop keeping up with the news. I didn't even realize the A3 was out. I have seen ads with Ricky Gervais but usually as a I fast forward through the commercials. Nothing jumped out at me that it was for the A3 or I would have watched it. I will have to keep my eyes out for it.


I feel you're implying that they've 100% missed the mark with the rollout ad package. 

I'd have to agree completely with that assertion.

... again, if they're going with the implied “volume model."


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

Auto show attendees can hardly be considered the best judges.

And the A3 has an SD slot. It also has an aux. Not only that, but Audi's (and VW's) music playback display kicks the ass of CLA's. Never understood why it's so hard to display Track, Artist, and Album information, and have them scroll properly when necessary.

The rollout is a mess, no one can argue with that, but that's a separate cause of why it's not selling, and not related to what the car is.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

t.oorboh! said:


> + the interior isn't very impressive (imo and those i went to the auto show with). + audi music interface. really? GTFO. gimme a usb port, sd card slot or aux in at least. and who's going to pay for an additional mobile data account for their car?


I think the interior is quite impressive, likely for the same reasons you aren't impressed. That said, I think this statement says a lot about the potential that Audi built a small market appeal car rather than a volume car. The volume they hope for, I feel, can only be attained if the American “look at my money" customer is reeled in. While I think the whole package, aesthetically, is one of the most cohesive, classy designs in recent times, I realize it's just not flashy enough for the “new money" buyer that their assumed sales goals would require show up _en masse_ in the showrooms.

Hell, look at an RS5 or RS7. They have distinctive elements that those “in the know” can see and appreciate, but there's very little bling and flash to those. The R8 is flashy simply because of what it is, but no other Audi is particularly flashy. One could define that as the state of being dull or boring, but I think that assumes only absolutes exist.

That's a bit of a tangent, but it's all to say that volume luxury cars have some type of flash. For BMW, it's the roundel. For Mercedes, it's the star and, in many cases, the styling. For Audi, it's... well... yeah, I figure you see their predicament, no?

I for one don't need flash, so I like Audi just the way they are.


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## Pommerening (Jan 17, 2014)

Dan Halen said:


> I feel you're implying that they've 100% missed the mark with the rollout ad package.
> 
> I'd have to agree completely with that assertion.
> 
> ... again, if they're going with the implied “volume model."


Those A3 ads are terrible. Im actually a little embarrased by them. The A6 Quattro ad with the Fargo music would have been 100x better for the A3.


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## cjmoy (Aug 23, 2000)

Audi lost me with the no MT decision, but hey they got Gervais to do their commercial.


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## chrixx (Apr 28, 2014)

How about the issue that none of the models featured in their ads/print/brochures are technically the same as those you can walk into a showroom and purchase, at least, in the US. The dealerships up here in the NW don't appear to even have any units with the S-line trim and the standard wheels are not even the same as the beautiful ones you see in the ads or reviews.


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## WLV (Apr 23, 2014)

*Way too early to make any judgment*

With the A3 for sale for about a month, and available officially for even less than a month, it simply makes no sense to judge the car's success or failure at this point.

And anecdotal sightings mean nothing. My neighborhood is awash in Audis; if they sold as well across the country as they do in this LA suburb, Audi's US market share would be 10-15%. And yet, until yesterday, I never saw a new A3. but that means nothing. 

Dodge Darts sell twice as many cars in the US as they do Fiat 500s. Yet I see 5-6 cinquecentos every day and NEVER see a Dart. If Audi even sold 5,000 A3s this past month, that would mean an average of just 100 per state. No wonder most of us don't see any--yet.


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

Another point I think is hurting Audi, is the fact that they locked certain options for certain packages... If they opened up the options for the Quattro (maybe the 1.8T but its cheap to start with) I think it would help... S-line, B&O, etc..... When you have to jump the most expensive package to get ONE thing you want and about 8 things you don't your going to look somewhere else quickly...... what do I know, I'm just a potential buyer 

Also 2K navi is crazy..... I saw on the UK site they have a MUCH cheaper Navi, that is SD card based ... I wonder if that will make it to NA ? ... I would expect since no one wants to get bent over for Data Plans...... What do you guys think ?


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> It's all coming back to the topic a year ago- whether Audi would play the lease game or would look to gain the more affluent buyer at the entry level. I think the presence (and abundance) of 1.8T FWD cars has most of us thinking they want to play the volume game, but their actions (lease terms) don't corroborate that. To be fair, we're really only basing our criticisms of perceived early volume on their own word that the A3 would be the brand's volume play.


It's this exact thing that has me liking the A3 so much - that I won't see one on every corner, and there are a fair number of A4/A6 in my area. Doesn't bother me that the casual observer won't know the difference between the model lines. I fully realize, and appreciate, that Audi needs volume in the A3 to boost sales numbers, but here's to hoping that the Q3 does that instead. I'm guessing a ton of buyers in the price range will opt for that because it's an SUV.



Dan Halen said:


> To be honest, I really still don't want to see them making the volume play with cheap, subsidized leases. I can't fathom that it's best for the brand long-term if they like their current demos. They'll have no choice if they flood the market with 1.8T cars, though.


It's not going to be good if they do assuming reports of the coming flood of off lease vehicles hitting the market in 2016 are accurate. Methinks CPO costs are gonna sky rocket for companies that are lease heavy and that can't be good for the bottom line no matter how robust things remain on the "sales" side.



Dan Halen said:


> I think the interior is quite impressive, likely for the same reasons you aren't impressed... I for one don't need flash, so I like Audi just the way they are.


Agreed...


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Trumpet Rider said:


> But but but....a 320 with leather, cold weather package and sunroof is north of $37k which is some $5k more than a 1.8T FWD which has sunroof and leather standard. A 320xi is way more than a 2.0 Quattro -and has 30 less horsepower.
> Bigger yes, but....the best deal of the new entry-level bunch?
> I don't think so!


no one cares about the leather or the sunroof. MB and BMW sells buckets of cars, even E Class and 5 series with pleather. the AWD is nice, but if you're in NEED of AWD, you're not going to buy an A3, sorry. Everything else in the world offers AWD these days, it's no longer the differentiator that Audi thought it was.
What they do care about is that the A3 looks like a little penalty box car and that the 320 looks like a full-boat 3 series with "0" at the end of the 32X number instead of an "8". The 320 also has more faux performance cred since it puts power to the correct wheels in 2WD configuration, and it comes with a proper 3rd pedal. 

you're also missing the point that most people LEASE premium cars. the MSPR is completely irrelevant. BMW is more agressive with price cuts and the residuals are higher than Audi by a significant margin. I'll bet the monthly rent on the 320 is less than a significantly cheaper (and cheaper looking) A3.

People care about not looking cheap while being cheap. Audi missed that class.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

VWNCC said:


> One of my local dealers sold 15/16 of their first batch of cars within 1 month.


my dealer can't move them, either and they're piling up like the A7's used to.

Beware of this month's "sales" numbers and dealers 'buying' them for demos and service loaners. 
it'll probably take a few months to see how bad is really is.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> Yeah, and I'm not exactly in a small market.
> 
> 
> It's all coming back to the topic a year ago- whether Audi would play the lease game or would look to gain the more affluent buyer at the entry level. I think the presence (and abundance) of 1.8T FWD cars has most of us thinking they want to play the volume game, but their actions (lease terms) don't corroborate that. To be fair, we're really only basing our criticisms of perceived early volume on their own word that the A3 would be the brand's volume play.
> ...


It's all coming back to 2006 when Audi released the first A3's into the market and the lease deals were terrible. Most people liked it, shrugged, and paid less for month to drive out in an A4. Audi delcared the A3 a failure.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> my dealer can't move them, either and they're piling up like the A7's used to.
> 
> Beware of this month's "sales" numbers and dealers 'buying' them for demos and service loaners.
> it'll probably take a few months to see how bad is really is.


You must have missed the trumped up numbers in February and March. They don't have much of that left unless they decide to put the entire A3 inventory into the fleet.

A7s pile up? To read some of your other posts, the A7 could be seen as the second coming. So which is it?



FractureCritical said:


> It's all coming back to 2006 when Audi released the first A3's into the market and the lease deals were terrible. Most people liked it, shrugged, and paid less for month to drive out in an A4. Audi delcared the A3 a failure.


Yeah, except for that small difference that we now know looking back on the 8P- Audi never intended to push the car or operate under the belief that it would be their volume leader. We can say whatever we want to in hindsight, but in Audi's eyes, the 8P and the 8V seem to be completely different products for completely different purposes.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

FractureCritical said:


> you're also missing the point that most people LEASE premium cars. the MSPR is completely irrelevant. BMW is more agressive with price cuts and the residuals are higher than Audi by a significant margin. I'll bet the monthly rent on the 320 is less than a significantly cheaper (and cheaper looking) A3.
> 
> People care about not looking cheap while being cheap. Audi missed that class.


Exactly. When I looked at a 320 M-Sport a month ago the dealer was willing to do $395/mo. on a 12k/36 month lease.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> You must have missed the trumped up numbers in February and March. They don't have much of that left unless they decide to put the entire A3 inventory into the fleet.
> 
> A7s pile up? To read some of your other posts, the A7 could be seen as the second coming. So which is it?
> 
> ...


I can vouch for the dealers putting A3s into loaner service. Two weeks prior to the A3 launch two of the shops here in NE Ohio had several A3s with dealer plates in the service department lot. How many is a different story, but they surely factor into the equation.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Sunroof - yes, but the leather? I agree - I could really care less in this class of car if it is high quality pleather or real leather. Me da igual. 

The 328x drive I rented last Labor Day had pleather and it was excellent quality. 



FractureCritical said:


> no one cares about the leather or the sunroof. MB and BMW sells buckets of cars, even E Class and 5 series with pleather. the AWD is nice, but if you're in NEED of AWD, you're not going to buy an A3, sorry. Everything else in the world offers AWD these days, it's no longer the differentiator that Audi thought it was.
> What they do care about is that the A3 looks like a little penalty box car and that the 320 looks like a full-boat 3 series with "0" at the end of the 32X number instead of an "8". The 320 also has more faux performance cred since it puts power to the correct wheels in 2WD configuration, and it comes with a proper 3rd pedal.
> 
> you're also missing the point that most people LEASE premium cars. the MSPR is completely irrelevant. BMW is more agressive with price cuts and the residuals are higher than Audi by a significant margin. I'll bet the monthly rent on the 320 is less than a significantly cheaper (and cheaper looking) A3.
> ...


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

I think some dealers are still holding out and not wanting to deal as much or to be more proactive in selling the car, in hoping the A3 gains more in popularity and the people who ordered CLA`s get sick of waiting. Now there are some dealers who want to move the factory allotment cars out quick so they can get the more higher end bells and whistles ones in from there custom orders. All depends in your area. My dealer 5 miles away would not deal BUT dealer 3hr away easy drive was willing to make a deal if I drove down. The deal was made all through e-mail and had financing in place already and I just walked in signed .


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> I can vouch for the dealers putting A3s into loaner service. Two weeks prior to the A3 launch two of the shops here in NE Ohio had several A3s with dealer plates in the service department lot. How many is a different story, but they surely factor into the equation.


Yeah, the entire sum of A3's I mentioned in a thread around March 3 were service loaner or demo vehicles. I just can't imagine that they have much more to add, so I suspect the numbers we see on Thursday afternoon will be fairly representative of April sales to buyers.



livestrong191 said:


> I think some dealers are still holding out and not wanting to deal as much or to be more proactive in selling the car, in hoping the A3 gains more in popularity and the people who ordered CLA`s get sick of waiting.* Now there are some dealers who want to move the factory allotment cars out quick so they can get the more higher end bells and whistles ones in from there custom orders.* All depends in your area. My dealer 5 miles away would not deal BUT dealer 3hr away easy drive was willing to make a deal if I drove down. The deal was made all through e-mail and had financing in place already and I just walked in signed .


Maybe there's some merit to that as it seems Audi sent configurations that aren't really ideal for lot cars, but the idea that these things are only moving if there's cash on the hood is bothersome. True, it's not a net difference from BMW subsidizing leases longer term, but BMW's plan is favorable, IMO, as BMW eats the slop rather than the used market eating the slop. Or, put another way, BMW falsely inflates their used values, while Audi currently won't have a way to do so if they don't make the lease deal more favorable.

Of course, if I get my S3 for 7-8% below MSRP, why would I care that resale is a bit lower? As long as I buy on the better end of the average transaction price, I'll be sufficiently covered on the resale side. Not that I plan to sell during the critical resale range, anyway...


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Sunroof - yes, but the leather? I agree - I could really care less in this class of car if it is high quality pleather or real leather. Me da igual.
> 
> The 328x drive I rented last Labor Day had pleather and it was excellent quality.


As I alluded in another thread, I'd almost prefer leatherette if the finish is right. The base leather in the A3 is actually even less desirable than leatherette to me; the base leather looks rather inconsistent in the few cars I've seen.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Everyone is jumping the gun a little bit here but this slow start is due to two things imo: timing and marketing/promotion.

Timing because most of the young buyers looking to get into luxury brands already went with the CLA. Then Audi came around are trying to play the same game and appeal to the same type of buyer which is a mistake. Given that they're late to the party, they should have focused on what differentiates them and appeal to the more refined/saavy type of buyer and emphasize how they have not made any sacrifices in quality in order to offer a cheaper car. I think they tried to do this with the whole "uncompromised" thing but didn't follow through with it clearly enough.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

A bit of interest...

My original hometown is one of the richest in the nation (I don't fit the demographic there at all, and maintain that in many ways my parents had no business living there as long as we did), and has always had a very successfully Audi dealership. On a whim, I checked their inventory -

49 A3s, all of which are Premium trim, except three IDENTICAL (color, options) Premium Plus 2.0T. Only two of the Premium cars are 1.8T.

Who will be getting these cars - most likely a good portion of the high school juniors and senior girls (how's that for a demographic) :banghead:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

davewg said:


> A bit of interest...
> 
> My original hometown is one of the richest in the nation (I don't fit the demographic there at all, and maintain that in many ways my parents had no business living there as long as we did), and has always had a very successfully Audi dealership. On a whim, I checked their inventory -
> 
> ...


For what it's worth, I'm hearing that Prestige is a "sold order only" proposition at this time.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Understandable given the pricing.

I'd much prefer to be a "sold order" buyer and get exactly what I want. For me its going to come down to price difference A3/S3, and how I feel the performance is of an A3 with the sports suspension v the few Gs in savings.


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## DavidCz1992 (Apr 9, 2014)

davewg said:


> Understandable given the pricing.
> 
> I'd much prefer to be a "sold order" buyer and get exactly what I want. For me its going to come down to price difference A3/S3, and how I feel the performance is of an A3 with the sports suspension v the few Gs in savings.


Im feeling the same way. Some ignorant part of me is hoping that the Premium+ S3 comes in at 41,000 w/ Nav, but not sure thats gonna work. Also wonder how the A3 with suspension drop will perform, as Im afraid of screwing up my tires


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

DavidCz1992 said:


> Im feeling the same way. Some ignorant part of me is hoping that the Premium+ S3 comes in at 41,000 w/ Nav, but not sure thats gonna work. Also wonder how the A3 with suspension drop will perform, as Im afraid of screwing up my tires


I'm not worried about screwing up the tires (or wheels) unless said tires are extremely low profile.

In NJ we definitely have some monstrously bad sections of road, but in my daily driving its easy enough to avoid the really bad spots. I'm sure my body would cry uncle long before any of the suspension components.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

DavidCz1992 said:


> Im feeling the same way. Some ignorant part of me is hoping that the Premium+ S3 comes in at 41,000 w/ Nav, but not sure thats gonna work. Also wonder how the A3 with suspension drop will perform, as Im afraid of screwing up my tires


Very doubtful. With the leaked base price of $41,100, you'd be looking at $44,595 with nav and destination- and that's if you take brilliant black paint. I don't see the S3 starting at $37,605. It's just not going to happen. Honestly, I suspect Audi's hesitation to release base pricing may be tied to a consideration to _increase_ the base pricing from what we saw in the leak. I hope not, but I certainly can't see them being hesitant to release now and then reduce later. They just did that on P+ and Prestige trim A3s for the inclusion of auto climate control on the Premium trim, in fact.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> Very doubtful. With the leaked base price of $41,100, you'd be looking at $44,595 with nav and destination- and that's if you take brilliant black paint. I don't see the S3 starting at $37,605. It's just not going to happen. * Honestly, I suspect Audi's hesitation to release base pricing may be tied to a consideration to increase the base pricing from what we saw in the leak.* I hope not, but I certainly can't see them being hesitant to release now and then reduce later. They just did that on P+ and Prestige trim A3s for the inclusion of auto climate control on the Premium trim, in fact.


You know, I've been wondering the same thing. I see Audi as crunching the numbers to see how much they can get away with. Also, with the B9 A4 going upmarket, there's probably more future wiggle room in pricing as the B9 S4 will probably be a higher price as well.


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

Doesn't look like my dealer has moved very many (if any) A3's either. IIRC, total number of A3's was about the same when they first arrived. Unless they sold a bunch and already got a bunch in again.  Looks like they have sold one R8 and one RS7 since I was there a few weeks ago.

*A3 (88)*
2.0T Premium (S tronic) (1)
Premium (83)
Premium plus (4)

A4 (42)
A5 (39)
A6 (37)
A7 (2)
A8 (4)
allroad (7)
Q5 (42)
Q5 hybrid (1)
Q7 (14)
RS 5 (5)
RS 7 (1)
S4 (1)
S5 (9)
S6 (1)
S8 (2)
SQ5 (5)
TT (1)
TTS (1)


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> For what it's worth, I'm hearing that Prestige is a "sold order only" proposition at this time.


again, only in the rest of the country. Southern California is a bit different; as dealers will order Prestige cars to sell on the lot.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> again, only in the rest of the country. Southern California is a bit different; as dealers will order Prestige cars to sell on the lot.


California is only content as a special snowflake. That's been confirmed by a dealer?


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

my wife keeps pointing to the A4s in our hood and saying hey there's the new A3.....then I correct her. looking exactly like another model that's been out forever is not what you want esp when this new car is should be making a statement toward a new design direction. (isn't that the big grip about audi?) 

from my perspective, the A3 is dead in the water because there's no manual. if I was going to buy a semi auto I'd buy a 328d (now the Macan has caught my eye) since it at least has AWD which Audi refuses to offer with their diesel (even Merc offers the GLK diesel AWD....) I'm also looking forward to seeing the 4 gran coupe in person soon. here in canada it's going to be avail with a manual.

i see quite a few CLAs here in DT Toronto.

as an aside, i was always hoping audi would create a baby a7 style hatch out of the a5 euro hatch......oh well. i suppose i would have potentially been tempted by an a3 sport back if it came with AWD but that's dead....


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> California is only content as a special snowflake. That's been confirmed by a dealer?


I dropped by Beverly Hills Audi the other day; their Prestige cars haven't arrived yet, but from what the rep was saying, they weren't already sold. It looks like the dealer ordered them to sell on the lot. Also its Beverly Hills Audi, they will sell each and every one of those cars. There are 2 Prestige cars on the ground right now in all of socal; a 1.8T and a 2.0T.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

kevlartoronto said:


> my wife keeps pointing to the A4s in our hood and saying hey there's the new A3.....then I correct her. looking exactly like another model that's been out forever is not what you want esp when this new car is should be making a statement toward a new design direction. (isn't that the big grip about audi?)


Completely agree, funny you should mention that, I saw my first in the live A3 at my gym, and I had to actually drive by it to confirm my suspicions that it was indeed an A3 and not an A4 from afar. This is coming from someone who has been following the A3 for a while, driven it, etc, so forget about the average public. I suppose if you are interested in the A4 then this is great, but if you are looking to make more of a statement, not so great.

B.


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## 03jettaturbo (Jan 6, 2004)

Hatchback buyers like hatchbacks.
Sedan buyers like sedans.
Manual transmission drivers want manual transmissions.
Period.

These things do not change.

Audi screwed up w/ the A3. The Sportback is a different market than the sedan. Continuing to not offer a manual as with the A3 Sportback was a mistake.

I would have bought an A3 sedan the day it came out if it offered a manual.

Considering this car segment isn't that large compared to other segments, not offering a manual in a compact sport sedan like this is a mistake, and I bet its having a bigger impact than Audi realized.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

03jettaturbo said:


> Hatchback buyers like hatchbacks.
> Sedan buyers like sedans.
> Manual transmission drivers want manual transmissions.
> Period.
> ...


You're right- Mercedes has it figured out with the manual CLA250.



































































































Oh.

:laugh:


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

With the timing of the S3 pricing (which I originally provided) I get the sense that they are waiting for BMW and MB to announce MY15 pricing for the M235 and CLA 45. The CLA doesn't have as big an impact, but if the BMW rumors are true with a 2-3% price increase that MUST be announced within a few weeks (July production) there is no reason for Audi not to wait. Regardless of Audi's pricing strategy waiting for BMW to hopefully raise M235 makes whatever Audi is going to do more palatable.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BEM10001 said:


> With the timing of the S3 pricing (which I originally provided) I get the sense that they are waiting for BMW and MB to announce MY15 pricing for the M235 and CLA 45. The CLA doesn't have as big an impact, but if the BMW rumors are true with a 2-3% price increase that MUST be announced within a few weeks (July production) there is no reason for Audi not to wait. Regardless of Audi's pricing strategy waiting for BMW to hopefully raise M235 makes whatever Audi is going to do more palatable.


Audi, ever the follower.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Dan Halen said:


> Audi, ever the follower.


No doubt, but from their perspective even if the $41.1 pricing holds, the BMW starts at $43.1 now and could get into the $44.5 range within a few weeks. Either way, what's Audi's benefit from releasing now vs waiting? They can either raise from $41.1 and still provide a lower price (comparably equipped who knows) or remain where they are and offer a more compelling value proposition. Yes the cars are not true comps (4 doors vs 2, AWD vs RWD) but I would venture that a good number of buyers they like certain things about each and could be happy with either.


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## JOES1.8T (Sep 8, 2003)

I'm no analyst like some of you guys in here, but I will say this based off all the traffic on this forum:

Audi UK has their s-it together
Germany has their you know what together
Hell even the Canadians have their game plan

Audi U.S.A. Obviously a bunch of monkeys screwing a football

He'll you saw the pricing guide I posted earlier, didn't even have S3 information in it, but the A5 material was seriously looking enticing.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

JOES1.8T said:


> I'm no analyst like some of you guys in here, but I will say this based off all the traffic on this forum:
> 
> Audi UK has their s-it together
> Germany has their you know what together
> ...


A USA football, or a Euro _futbol_? :laugh:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BEM10001 said:


> No doubt, but from their perspective even if the $41.1 pricing holds, the BMW starts at $43.1 now and could get into the $44.5 range within a few weeks. Either way, what's Audi's benefit from releasing now vs waiting? They can either raise from $41.1 and still provide a lower price (comparably equipped who knows) or remain where they are and offer a more compelling value proposition. Yes the cars are not true comps (4 doors vs 2, AWD vs RWD) but I would venture that a good number of buyers they like certain things about each and could be happy with either.


I only see a benefit in them holding back if they're looking to ride BMW's coattails on a price increase before announcement. "Oh, BMW bumped the M235i by $1,300? Well we'll still be a value proposition if we bump our base from the planned $41,100 by that amount as well!" 

I'm starting to temper my already low expectations even further. For example, I think we've all assumed they've withheld the S3 long enough that there's no chance in Hades we'll go through any "delayed arrival" bull**** with options, right? I'm even starting to expect that they'll muck that up. And then there's the Sepang Blue news out of Europe...


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Dan Halen said:


> I only see a benefit in them holding back if they're looking to ride BMW's coattails on a price increase before announcement. "Oh, BMW bumped the M235i by $1,300? Well we'll still be a value proposition if we bump our base from the planned $41,100 by that amount as well!"
> 
> I'm starting to temper my already low expectations even further. For example, I think we've all assumed they've withheld the S3 long enough that there's no chance in Hades we'll go through any "delayed arrival" bull**** with options, right? I'm even starting to expect that they'll muck that up. And then there's the Sepang Blue news out of Europe...


If it makes you feel any better BMW is screwing things up too. We all got a $350 refund because they didn't advertise the stereo properly, there is no comfort access, there are more colors (even formerly M exclusive ones!) on the 228 compared to the 235, etc. etc. etc. Not that it helps but everything we are all dealing with is part and parcel of a newly released car. Yes Audi North America is handling this a million times worse than they could have, especially since the car is already out everywhere else. You will 100% absolutely see things on the MY16 that aren't available on yours though, different colors, interior options etc. But the MY16 will get a price increase. Just nature of the beast.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

MY15 actually seems to be the big change year for Audi with the 8V. I expect that we'll see them stand pat for MY16 for the most part.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

One other thing that completely slipped my mind, BMW confirmed there will be an xDrive version of the 235 for MY15. If you assume it'll be $2-2.5 more than the base model, and the increase of 2-3% holds, you are in the $46-47 range for a much closer comp to the S3. That also does not bode well for the S3 pricing, which was leaked before the xDrive was confirmed.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

we do have a dealer rep on here, ProjectA3 is his handle. I would like to hear from him as to what his take is on the sales situation.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

If you go over to the CLA's forum it thread after thread of issues. Plus the longer the wait people have on CLA`s the more time they can read up issues with the cars and back out. Few already have


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

livestrong191 said:


> If you go over to the CLA's forum it thread after thread of issues. Plus the longer the wait people have on CLA`s the more time they can read up issues with the cars and back out. Few already have


I have heard the same, although I always take volume of complaints vs volume of praise with a grain of salt. People tend to bitch more aggressively than they praise. The S3, while it's a pain in the butt waiting for it, at least has the benefit of not launching first here in the US so any early issues should be sorted out.


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## 006 (Jul 17, 2000)

*The 8P Leased Poorly NINE YEARS AGO!*

Nice to see Audi USA update their business model in the intervening years. I guess the water in Herndon tastes the same as it did in Detroit. 

Between the MQB A3 looking like a six-year-old A4 and the upcoming (and I use that term loosely) Q3 on non-MQB platform, it's no wonder I hop on the Vortex once in a blue moon to look around and then go back to BMW.

I want to buy / lease a new VW / Audi. I really, really do. Maybe I should run out and buy a '14 Jetta Sportwagen that sits on the super-new MKV platform that just came out in 2005.

Any car I want from these two brands is NEVER out when I need to buy. It's almost comical. I'm ecstatic VW showed off that MKVII Golf Sportwagen that is still 11 months away. And April 2014, is what, a year or so after the Vortex ran a feature originally on the car? 

The common theme here: too little, too late - just like the A3. At least for me.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

006 said:


> Nice to see Audi USA update their business model in the intervening years. I guess the water in Herndon tastes the same as it did in Detroit.
> 
> Between the MQB A3 looking like a six-year-old A4 and the upcoming (and I use that term loosely) Q3 on non-MQB platform, it's no wonder I hop on the Vortex once in a blue moon to look around and then go back to BMW.
> 
> ...


GTi in 2mo. Modern platform, most of the utility you want, huge cost savings over BMW/Audi, probably a lot more fun to drive than an A3.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I'm slightly puzzled at how well the very aged Q7 moves, and I'm sure Audi is more than content with a much fresher design being present in the A3. Casual observers may not care to tell the difference, but there was a fairly major leap in styling between the B8 and the B8.5, IMO.

While I'm frustrated about their ass-dragging on the S3, I realize fully that Audi is in a much better position than VW right now. VW has an ancient product in their two mainstream cars- the Jetta and the Passat; slightly less so on the latter, but still.

The A3 is at least on their most current corporate face and a brand new platform.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

Yeah, maybe if MB put a manual transmission in the CLA it wouldn't be such a flop. Haha. I think the CLA's success is largely due to the brand and flashy exterior styling. While that doesn't appeal to me, I certainly recognize that the majority of buyers need to be appeased in order to keep a car alive (at a reasonable price).


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## CadiGTi (Mar 1, 2007)

*Automobile Mag: A3 "Inexplicable front axle tramp"*

"But flooring the 1.8T's throttle from a stop induced so much front axle tramp that the traction control system shut off the fuel supply at 2800 rpm. " Inexplicable " is the only word for this premature incapacitation: what kind of FWD car with a mere 170hp can't control wheel hop?"

quoted from Automobile Magazine, page 40, June 2014.


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## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

Dan Halen said:


> And then there's the Sepang Blue news out of Europe...


Did I miss a thread? What happened with Sepang Blue? I ask because thats the color I want if I grab an S3.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Xanlith said:


> Did I miss a thread? What happened with Sepang Blue? I ask because thats the color I want if I grab an S3.


Nah, it's sort of buried in another thread: http://forums.fourtitude.com/showth...uot-Thread&p=85461232&viewfull=1#post85461232

The impression I got was that it wasn't a process issue, so hopefully we'll still get it.


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## 006 (Jul 17, 2000)

Chimera said:


> GTi in 2mo. Modern platform, most of the utility you want, huge cost savings over BMW/Audi, probably a lot more fun to drive than an A3.


The MQB MKVII Golf and GTI are perfect, except for anyone with a family like me that needs more space. The current MQB A3 is even less practical. I just want a decent-sized, practicle vehicle from VW / Audi that rides on a current platform. For VW, it also has to be a world car like the Golf. I wouldn't take two glances at a Americanized Passat wagon even if it was made. For Audi, the Q1 is the biggest joke. It's a car that North America is getting 2 years too late (should have been released over here Fall 2012, a year after Europe got it) and it rides on a platform that will be 10 years old next year!


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Well, Audi recorded about 2,100 A3 sales for the month of April, which is about in line with what I would have expected.

The big question of course is how many of those went into the dealership service fleet (I would suspect at least 1, if not 2 or more per dealership). Even if we call it 1,500 units (retail sales) for the month, that's a heluva lot better than the A3 Sportback ever did.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Well, Audi recorded about 2,100 A3 sales for the month of April, which is about in line with what I would have expected.
> 
> The big question of course is how many of those went into the dealership service fleet (I would suspect at least 1, if not 2 or more per dealership). Even if we call it 1,500 units (retail sales) for the month, that's a heluva lot better than the A3 Sportback ever did.


On what they reported in February and again in March, I highly doubt a substantial amount of the April figure is anything other than sales to Joe Buyer. 

That's a damn good number... so why do they just seem like they're not moving? So odd.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> Well, Audi recorded about 2,100 A3 sales for the month of April, which is about in line with what I would have expected.
> 
> The big question of course is how many of those went into the dealership service fleet (I would suspect at least 1, if not 2 or more per dealership). Even if we call it 1,500 units (retail sales) for the month, that's a heluva lot better than the A3 Sportback ever did.


For first full month sales _even including_ service fleet/loaner....that seems :thumbdown:

CLA first 6 months:

September - 2310
October - 4895
November - 3623
December - 3285
January - 2433
February - 1971


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> On what they reported in February and again in March, I highly doubt a substantial amount of the April figure is anything other than sales to Joe Buyer.
> 
> That's a damn good number... so why do they just seem like they're not moving? So odd.


It could just be that Audi of America did a good job of getting a LOT of product on the ground prior to launch and have enough supply at the moment.


----------



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> For first full month sales _even including_ service fleet/loaner....that seems :thumbdown:
> 
> CLA first 6 months:
> 
> ...


The CLA only had about ten days in September, at that. :wave:


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

ChrisFu said:


> For first full month sales _even including_ service fleet/loaner....that seems :thumbdown:
> 
> CLA first 6 months:
> 
> ...


Pure speculation here, but Audi's numbers are probably more organic. I know that there was a substantial number of CLA sold orders going into the launch, and as you see, those CLA numbers have fallen by about half since October. 

With winter being as craptastic as it was for most of the country, I don't think we'll get a good picture on CLA figures until late this summer. I suspect the CLA will wind up moving between 2000 - 3000 units regularly.

Now, if the A3 can maintain sales in the 1500 - 2500 range, were I Audi I would be very happy. The Q3 will easily double those numbers.

The more important number for Audi is that A4 sales are essentially flat year over year. This says that the A3 (so far) is not eating into A4 sales and instead is drawing in a completely new base of customer.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Forget the A3. Forget the CLA. I want to know what the blue hell they're doing to the Q7 to move more month in and month out. Is there a massive bag of cash on the hood? That thing is beyond stale, yet they keep finding more and more homes for them.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Forget the A3. Forget the CLA. I want to know what the blue hell they're doing to the Q7 to move more month in and month out. Is there a massive bag of cash on the hood? That thing is beyond stale, yet they keep finding more and more homes for them.


It's really the mystery of the automotive world. Explains why Audi has been in no rush to get the new one to market. 

From what I know, there aren't many incentives - but I do know that one of my two local shops is moving every single diesel Q7 before they are even off the truck.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> It's really the mystery of the automotive world. Explains why Audi has been in no rush to get the new one to market.
> 
> From what I know, there aren't many incentives - but I do know that one of my two local shops is moving every single diesel Q7 before they are even off the truck.


I just... what the, I don't even... 

Mystifying.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Travis Grundke said:


> It's really the mystery of the automotive world. Explains why Audi has been in no rush to get the new one to market.
> 
> From what I know, there aren't many incentives - but I do know that one of my two local shops is moving every single diesel Q7 before they are even off the truck.



As premium gas is touching over $4 per gallon now , diesels are making more sense even with the higher price tag. VW is dong well on sales in the diesel department and once the AUdi A diesel comes out might be a big hit over the CLA. I mean look at the trend with Chevy making more diesel commercials than Volts.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

livestrong191 said:


> As premium gas is touching over $4 per gallon now , diesels are making more sense even with the higher price tag. VW is dong well on sales in the diesel department and once the AUdi A diesel comes out might be a big hit over the CLA. I mean look at the trend with Chevy making more diesel commercials than Volts.


yeah the VW and Audi TDI models have sold well around my neck of the woods, according to the salesguy who took me out on the A3 test drive.


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## rlfletch (Jun 11, 2000)

Dan Halen said:


> I just... what the, I don't even...
> 
> Mystifying.


Tell me what competition it has? The new Merc and BMW SUV's are dull is dirt and still don't have a third row. The Q7 still looks great. I wouldn't hesitate to get one.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> I just... what the, I don't even...
> 
> Mystifying.


Simple - it's the largest Audi SUV you can buy.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> I just... what the, I don't even...
> 
> Mystifying.


No joke, I think part of it is a testament to Audi's design language and that it ages very gracefully. I think my 8P A3 has aged remarkably well - people can't believe it's almost 10 years old.

My parents really want a Q7 and my wife would kill to have one. They could care less the age of the vehicle and its platform, they just "like" it.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> I just... what the, I don't even...
> 
> Mystifying.


It's pretty easy.

the X5, which is smaller is $10k more once you upgrenade from S drive to X drive, and that's before piling on the options.

the big Mercedes SUV starts at $63k which is a metric crap load of coin for what is ostensibly an over priced Grand Cherokee.

the Q7, however clocks in around $47k starting price with AWD standard. That's actually price competitive with a nicely equipped Ford Explorer Sport.
Assuming you can hold your purse tight to your bosom with the few options offered on the Premium trim line, you can keep it around $50 and still have a nicely equipped mommy assault jitney.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Are you faintly praising Audi? Say it ain't so! 

When you put it that way, it's hard to imagine the thing could fail. As long as they don't try to fluff the price too much when the MkII hits...


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Huh, well put. Since I'm not in this market I never really paid attention to the pricing of the competition. That's a big gap and explains a lot.



FractureCritical said:


> It's pretty easy.
> 
> the X5, which is smaller is $10k more once you upgrenade from S drive to X drive, and that's before piling on the options.
> 
> ...


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## DavidCz1992 (Apr 9, 2014)

Not really sure who would want a Q7, that thing is a street legal luxury tank that handles like an elephant. Q5's are more elegant and practical, but w/e.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

DavidCz1992 said:


> Not really sure who would want a Q7, that thing is a street legal luxury tank that handles like an elephant. Q5's are more elegant and practical, but w/e.


But what if I need to haul around my six children? :laugh:


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## DavidCz1992 (Apr 9, 2014)

Dan Halen said:


> But what if I need to haul around my six children? :laugh:


I would say go American but that would just be mean, yes that is justified then lol


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> But what if I need to haul around my six children? :laugh:


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> Are you faintly praising Audi? Say it ain't so!
> 
> When you put it that way, it's hard to imagine the thing could fail. As long as they don't try to fluff the price too much when the MkII hits...


hey, believe it or not, I love Audi in a very sad and pathetic way not unlike how Randy Quaid's character actually loved the Indians in the move 'Major Leauge' 
I just hate the way they do buisness in a way that only an engineer sneering at an MBA grad ever could.

You should have seen me at the dealership yesterday drooling on a Ibis White 2014 S4 with Black Optics.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> hey, believe it or not, I love Audi in a very sad and pathetic way not unlike how Randy Quaid's character actually loved the Indians in the move 'Major Leauge'
> *I just hate the way they do buisness in a way that only an engineer sneering at an MBA grad ever could.*
> 
> You should have seen me at the dealership yesterday drooling on a Ibis White 2014 S4 with Black Optics.


LOL! It's so clear now!


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## 03jettaturbo (Jan 6, 2004)

Dan Halen said:


> You're right- Mercedes has it figured out with the manual CLA250.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mercedes attracts different buyers. That's where Audi screwed up w/ not offering a manual on the A3 in the USA.

You couldn't pay me to buy a CLA, and I bet the same goes for many other Audi drivers.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

03jettaturbo said:


> Mercedes attracts different buyers. That's where Audi screwed up w/ not offering a manual on the A3 in the USA.
> 
> You couldn't pay me to buy a CLA, and I bet the same goes for many other Audi drivers.


Fair point. I'll match it with this: Audi wants to attract those "different buyers" that Mercedes attracts.


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## 03jettaturbo (Jan 6, 2004)

Dan Halen said:


> Fair point. I'll match it with this: Audi wants to attract those "different buyers" that Mercedes attracts.


...another mistake by Audi


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

I think audi has more advertising problems than a young man standing all embarrassed at the pharmacy condom aisle Trying to figure out if he needs magnums or extra thin And checking his wallet if he has enough money for both : )


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## DavidCz1992 (Apr 9, 2014)

livestrong191 said:


> I think audi has more advertising problems than a young man standing all embarrassed at the pharmacy condom aisle Trying to figure out if he needs magnums or extra thin And checking his wallet if he has enough money for both : )


yep thats about right


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Audi, to date, has not defined what their brand is other than "we're not Mercedes or BMW".

From a marketing perspective, It's hard to sell a car when you don't know the core philosophy of the brand.
"Truth in Engineering" is cute, but doesn't make any actual sense.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

FractureCritical said:


> Audi, to date, has not defined what their brand is other than "we're not Mercedes or BMW".
> 
> From a marketing perspective, It's hard to sell a car when you don't know the core philosophy of the brand.
> "Truth in Engineering" is cute, but doesn't make any actual sense.


I agree 100%. "Truth in Engineering" is about as vapid a brand slogan as they come, about as hollow as Apple's early '90s "The Power to be your Best". WTF is that supposed to mean? 

It smacks of design by committee.

BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine" and Merc's "The Best or Nothing" campaigns are, in comparison, outstanding. 

Let's see how the sales numbers pan out over the next three months as things settle down.


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## codewhore (Oct 22, 2006)

Travis Grundke said:


> I agree 100%. "Truth in Engineering" is about as vapid a brand slogan as they come, about as hollow as Apple's early '90s "The Power to be your Best". WTF is that supposed to mean?
> 
> It smacks of design by committee.
> 
> ...


Years ago I thought that Audi could draw some inspiration from J.R.R. Tolkien and create the slogan "Four Rings to Rule the Road"


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Travis Grundke said:


> I agree 100%. "Truth in Engineering" is about as vapid a brand slogan as they come, about as hollow as Apple's early '90s "The Power to be your Best". WTF is that supposed to mean?
> 
> It smacks of design by committee.
> 
> ...


Both brands have solid brand cheerleaders and tangible benchmarks to "what they mean"

Every BMW on the road lives in the shadow of the "M" cars. There's a pride in your car being genetically related to just about the closest thing you can get to a true german road racing car available today (the truth of that is dubious, but the brand distincition is real)

and MB is still living large off of the history of those diesel tanks they used to sell back in the day. Somewhere in the back of every MB driver's mind, there's a little giggle that Mercedes never got the message that Germany stopped building Panzer tanks in 1945, and yes, you can still get your E-Classe with MB-Tex, the most indestructible cloth since Reed Richard's Unstable Molecule Fabric.

Audi... um... they... er... give me a minute...


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

FractureCritical said:


> Audi... um... they... er... give me a minute...


Still trying to recover from the unintended acceleration/60 minutes debacle from the late 80s?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Something about paying dues?


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

Audi's doing a lot right to pass MB as #2 and currently giving BMW a run for #1 so far this year globally.

I've been selling Audi's since 2003 and man how times have changed. Increased sales, reliability, profit, customer satisfaction, and advertising are all things we dreaded in 2003 and are now proud of in 2014.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

ProjectA3 said:


> Audi's doing a lot right to pass MB as #2 and currently giving BMW a run for #1 so far this year globally.
> 
> I've been selling Audi's since 2003 and man how times have changed. Increased sales, reliability, profit, customer satisfaction, and advertising are all things we dreaded in 2003 and are now proud of in 2014.


Glad to hear this...I feared, at one point, that Audi would leave the US and never return.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

FractureCritical said:


> Both brands have solid brand cheerleaders and tangible benchmarks to "what they mean"
> 
> Every BMW on the road lives in the shadow of the "M" cars. There's a pride in your car being genetically related to just about the closest thing you can get to a true german road racing car available today (the truth of that is dubious, but the brand distincition is real)
> 
> ...


Audi could position on "Quattro" (WRC, 24h Lemans, etc heritage). Quattro EVERYTHING. Quattro all day long and twice on Sundays. Celebrity spokesperson is Spiderman. (not really, leave the cutesy nonesense to VW)

Everything on Haldex or Torsen and multiple diesel options on everything.

Unfortunately, since Quattro is a performance angle, it's a little too directly aimed at BMW's position and I don't think AoA has the stomach for that kind of war. (or the stomach for anything resembling a meaningful brand position of any kind actually.)


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

ProjectA3 said:


> Audi's doing a lot right to pass MB as #2 and currently giving BMW a run for #1 so far this year globally.
> 
> I've been selling Audi's since 2003 and man how times have changed. Increased sales, reliability, profit, customer satisfaction, and advertising are all things we dreaded in 2003 and are now proud of in 2014.


Good stuff. Rock on.


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## U n i o n 0015 (Sep 10, 2000)

FWIW, I saw my first A3 sedan on the road the other day. I didn't even realize they were out yet. Audi really needs to market the car better.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Well, Audi recorded about 2,100 A3 sales for the month of April, which is about in line with what I would have expected.
> 
> The big question of course is how many of those went into the dealership service fleet (I would suspect at least 1, if not 2 or more per dealership). Even if we call it 1,500 units (retail sales) for the month, that's a heluva lot better than the A3 Sportback ever did.


May: 2,261 units, and probably much closer to 100% buyer deliveries than either of the prior two months. They're claiming 5,283 since launch.


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## BeBop! (Jun 18, 2009)

You guys are being too harsh ... when I think of Audi the first thing that comes to mind is their domination in motorsports. I have the impression that buying an A3/S3 means you are getting technology that was handed down from their race cars (think Audi Quattro, R8 LMS, R18, etc). While Merc and BMW are also heavily involved in motorsports, Audi stands out as being the most successful of the three.


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## Trumpet Rider (Apr 19, 2014)

BeBop! said:


> You guys are being too harsh ... when I think of Audi the first thing that comes to mind is their domination in motorsports. I have the impression that buying an A3/S3 means you are getting technology that was handed down from their race cars (think Audi Quattro, R8 LMS, R18, etc). While Merc and BMW are also heavily involved in motorsports, Audi stands out as being the most successful of the three.


Successful -or who's success/accomplishments have been better marketed/positioned?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> May: 2,261 units, and probably much closer to 100% buyer deliveries than either of the prior two months. They're claiming 5,283 since launch.


What's more impressive is that the A3 did not cannibalize A4 sales.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Travis Grundke said:


> What's more impressive is that the A3 did not cannibalize A4 sales.


I wonder if it has cannibalized GLI and GTI sales.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VWNCC said:


> I wonder if it has cannibalized GLI and GTI sales.


GLI sales, I wouldn't be surprised. GTI, probably not so much, especially considering that the MK7s just started to arrive on lots within the last week.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> GLI sales, I wouldn't be surprised. GTI, probably not so much, especially considering that the MK7s just started to arrive on lots within the last week.


When the MKVII GTIs show up in force, I would imagine it will be the other way around.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

ChrisFu said:


> When the MKVII GTIs show up in force, I would imagine it will be the other way around.


Especially if you wanted your A3 with a stick.


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## analytics51 (Feb 22, 2014)

*Another perspective........*

Well, here's another perspective.....

First off, Audi is acknowledged as one of the top five brands in the world. Pretty good for a company that does not understand it's customers, can't advertise and can't seem to publish some silly specs for a car not even introduced yet.

Secondly, Audi is laughing all the way to the bank with A3 sales. I don't know where anyone is getting their info....wait until the month end numbers are out. I picked up my car on 4/24 here in San Diego. In all my years of going into car dealerships I have never, ever seen so many people making deals (on all kinds of Audi's, not just A3's). It is true, I have not seen many A3's on the road, but I'm not worried and grinning ear to ear. What you probably won't see are lots of Prestige models at dealerships. They are ordered, come in and in most cases driven off the lot the same day as they arrived.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

analytics51 said:


> Secondly, Audi is laughing all the way to the bank with A3 sales. I don't know where anyone is getting their info....wait until the month end numbers are out.


Month end numbers are out for May. Basically the same as April at 2261/2159. About half what the CLA did at its launch. "Laughing all the way to the bank" they ain't. Not yet, at least.


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## KnockKnock (Jun 30, 2005)

analytics51 said:


> It is true, I have not seen many A3's on the road, but I'm not worried and grinning ear to ear.


This is one of those new model things. Visibility is cumulative. First year, no matter how well it seems to be selling, you just don't see many. Second year, not that many. But by the 3-4-5-6-7-8th years, then they're all over the place. Just in time to be replaced


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

the A3's seem to be selling at a nice steady pace here at my dealership. 2-3 a week it seems which is what we were hoping for. We still have decent inventory of the launch vehicles with our dealer-ordered cars arriving in different colors and options.

after 2 weeks of ownership of mine i really have to say the car is a blast to drive but yet comfortable and quiet at the same time. I'm seeing 30-31mpg on my round trips to work and back in my quattro. 
It was driven to Las Vegas for Wuste last weekend and overall it averaged 29.6mpg over 746 miles.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

ChrisFu said:


> Month end numbers are out for May. Basically the same as April at 2261/2159. About half what the CLA did at its launch. "Laughing all the way to the bank" they ain't. Not yet, at least.


Well yes, but CLA sales have dropped like a rock every month since then and have pretty heavily cannibalized C-Class sales as well. Now, Merc is claiming that the decline in sales is due to supply constraints, not lack of demand. Autotrader only shows 296 CLAs in stock in the country, so the supply problems may indeed be true.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

ChrisFu said:


> Month end numbers are out for May. Basically the same as April at 2261/2159. About half what the CLA did at its launch. "Laughing all the way to the bank" they ain't. Not yet, at least.


Also keep in mind that the scuttlebutt is that Audi is targeting ~20,000 A3 class vehicles annually. Whether that includes the Q3 or not remains to be seen, but I imagine they will have little trouble moving 400-500 TDI Sportbacks per month (good for another 4800-6000 units annually), add in the TDI sedan models and then call it 100-200 etron models next year, and if they keep the sedans moving at 2,000/mo we're looking at 2500-2600 units monthly, or around 30,000 units per year. 

I think the Q3 will easily add another 20k annually, if not more. With those numbers Audi should have little trouble hitting 200,000 units next year.


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## steaguejr (Aug 3, 2006)

I think MB marketed the CLA very well. Built much suspense on the car, offered a low price, and gave a chance for people that always wanted a MB. Now for Audi's A3/S3, AOA failed because Euro version have so much more, including the sportsback. The A3 is just way to small for its price tag. Talking to one of the dealer guys, AOA's purpose was the make the A3 a commuter car. If I wanted a commuter car, I would be something that is less than 18k. I think they would have had much better sales if the Sportsback TDI version come over along with the 1.8TFSI. Then in a 6 month period bring over the S3 sportsback/sedan and everything else.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

steaguejr said:


> I think MB marketed the CLA very well. Built much suspense on the car, offered a low price, and gave a chance for people that always wanted a MB. Now for Audi's A3/S3, AOA failed because *Euro version have so much more*, including the sportsback. The A3 is just way to small for its price tag. Talking to one of the dealer guys, AOA's purpose was the make the A3 a commuter car. If I wanted a commuter car, I would be something that is less than 18k. I think they would have had much better sales if the Sportsback TDI version come over along with the 1.8TFSI. Then in a 6 month period bring over the S3 sportsback/sedan and everything else.


Such as? We get a fairly complete package, actually. No, we can't get a 1.4TSI Sportback dressed up like an S3, but we get many of the same options Europe gets. With the TDI Sportback headed our way, I'm of the opinion that we don't have much room to kvetch about the US market getting bent over.

I've been seeing more CLAs lately. They don't look nearly as “melted bar of soap" like after seeing several. It's still not a car I aspire to have, but if flash is near the top of the list, the CLA is a good choice.


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## JOES1.8T (Sep 8, 2003)

If Audi really wanted to bring a commuter car, they should have brought the A1, but I am assuming they won't do to possible encroachment onto A/S3 sales.


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## steaguejr (Aug 3, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> Such as? We get a fairly complete package, actually. No, we can't get a 1.4TSI Sportback dressed up like an S3, but we get many of the same options Europe gets. With the TDI Sportback headed our way, I'm of the opinion that we don't have much room to kvetch about the US market getting bent over.
> 
> I've been seeing more CLAs lately. They don't look nearly as “melted bar of soap" like after seeing several. It's still not a car I aspire to have, but if flash is near the top of the list, the CLA is a good choice.


I should of been more specific. We are limited to drivetrain and engines. They do offer about the same for the 1.8/2.0TFSI, but they lack sportswagen/quattro in the mix. I think many people here in the states would pick a 2.0TDI quattro over a 2.0TFSI quattro in a sedan or sportsback. 

Maybe I'm just mad. lol I have been excited for so long from the first time they said they were bringing the S3 over to the States. I couldn't wait to get my hands on a S3 Sportsback. Then they shot me down and just said only Sedan. Then I pulled myself together to just be knocked down again after they said only in S-tronic. Then I convinced myself that all the top exotic cars have this type of trans, so it can't be that bad, right? Then they finally brought the A3 over. Got invited to the Audi party for the release. I sat the in the car and I got disappointed again, it was way smaller than I expected. From front to rear, it is the same size as the B5. I was hoping it would of been close to the size of the A4. All I know is that the S3 test drive better make my eyes roll to the back of my head and make my toes curl.


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## Zorro83 (Sep 10, 2011)

steaguejr said:


> I should of been more specific. We are limited to drivetrain and engines. They do offer about the same for the 1.8/2.0TFSI, but they lack sportswagen/quattro in the mix. I think many people here in the states would pick a 2.0TDI quattro over a 2.0TFSI quattro in a sedan or sportsback.
> 
> Maybe I'm just mad. lol I have been excited for so long from the first time they said they were bringing the S3 over to the States. I couldn't wait to get my hands on a S3 Sportsback. Then they shot me down and just said only Sedan. Then I pulled myself together to just be knocked down again after they said only in S-tronic. Then I convinced myself that all the top exotic cars have this type of trans, so it can't be that bad, right? Then they finally brought the A3 over. Got invited to the Audi party for the release. I sat the in the car and I got disappointed again, it was way smaller than I expected. From front to rear, it is the same size as the B5. I was hoping it would of been close to the size of the A4. All I know is that the S3 test drive better make my eyes roll to the back of my head and make my toes curl.


You make very good points in regards to the availability of engines/5 door, it would be nice to have more choice and if Audi made a mistake then the market will say so. However what i still can't wrap my head around is how people still think this was going to be close in size to the A4. Ever since they started showing the car, every magazine stated that it was a near carbon-copy of the B5 in terms of size. Also, having an A3/S3 close to the same size as the A4 would be redundant. 

People already complain about A3/A4 looking too similar and now you want them to be close to the same size? 

Audi got the size right, if i wanted a tad bigger the A4/S4 would already be in my garage.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Zorro83 said:


> You make very good points in regards to the availability of engines/5 door, it would be nice to have more choice and if Audi made a mistake then the market will say so. However what i still can't wrap my head around is how people still think this was going to be close in size to the A4. Ever since they started showing the car, every magazine stated that it was a near carbon-copy of the B5 in terms of size. Also, having an A3/S3 close to the same size as the A4 would be redundant.
> 
> People already complain about A3/A4 looking too similar and now you want them to be close to the same size?
> 
> Audi got the size right, if i wanted a tad bigger the A4/S4 would already be in my garage.


Agreed. But it is close in size to the A4... just not the one you can buy today with a warranty and no miles. :laugh:


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

steaguejr said:


> Got invited to the Audi party for the release. I sat the in the car and I got disappointed again, it was way smaller than I expected. From front to rear, it is the same size as the B5. I was hoping it would of been close to the size of the A4. All I know is that the S3 test drive better make my eyes roll to the back of my head and make my toes curl.


The main point of the A3 *IS* to fill the size segment left behind by the B5 A4 (the current A4 is huge in comparison). It is the probably the best replacement for those who love their B5 A4 or Mk IV Jetta and not wanting to upsize their car.


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## steaguejr (Aug 3, 2006)

VWNCC said:


> The main point of the A3 *IS* to fill the size segment left behind by the B5 A4 (the current A4 is huge in comparison). It is the probably the best replacement for those who love their B5 A4 or Mk IV Jetta and not wanting to upsize their car.


I have a MK4 and MK5 Jetta. I love the size of the MK5. I just wish the A3 was that size based on rear seating and trunk space.



Zorro83 said:


> You make very good points in regards to the availability of engines/5 door, it would be nice to have more choice and if Audi made a mistake then the market will say so. However what i still can't wrap my head around is how people still think this was going to be close in size to the A4. Ever since they started showing the car, every magazine stated that it was a near carbon-copy of the B5 in terms of size. Also, having an A3/S3 close to the same size as the A4 would be redundant.
> 
> People already complain about A3/A4 looking too similar and now you want them to be close to the same size?
> 
> Audi got the size right, if i wanted a tad bigger the A4/S4 would already be in my garage.


I had no clue that the A3 was going to be the size of the B5. I'd figured based on pictures it was going to be similiar to the MK6 size. People that complain about the comparison between the A3/A4 are just being picky. Hell, if that is the case, A4 looks like the A6, and A6 looks like the A8.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

steaguejr said:


> I have a MK4 and MK5 Jetta. I love the size of the MK5. I just wish the A3 was that size based on rear seating and trunk space.
> 
> I had no clue that the A3 was going to be the size of the B5. I'd figured based on pictures it was going to be similiar to the MK6 size. People that complain about the comparison between the A3/A4 are just being picky. Hell, if that is the case, A4 looks like the A6, and A6 looks like the A8.


I had a Mk4 and I couldn't find anything to replace it with until this A3. One of the reasons why I didn't opt for the Mk5 or Mk6 was their large size. Sure they offer more rear seating and trunk space, but I much prefer the look of the short trunk in the Mk4, B5 A4, and the A3 sedan.

When the A3 sedan was announced, they already mentioned that it was going to be very similar in size as the B5 A4. The official dimensions were also released very very early on.


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## steaguejr (Aug 3, 2006)

VWNCC said:


> I had a Mk4 and I couldn't find anything to replace it with until this A3. One of the reasons why I didn't opt for the Mk5 or Mk6 was their large size. Sure they offer more rear seating and trunk space, but I much prefer the look of the short trunk in the Mk4, B5 A4, and the A3 sedan.
> 
> When the A3 sedan was announced, they already mentioned that it was going to be very similar in size as the B5 A4. The official dimensions were also released very very early on.


I love my Mk4. Had it for 11 years. But I always like the A3 sportsback. Looked a bit more comfortable and bigger. I still think the previous A3 has more room.


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## charliemike (Jul 22, 2001)

Is it possible the A3 Premium is too plain? I see a lot of CLA 250s with the AMG wheels. It seems like that's most of what I see.

If you compare that with the non-S-Line A3, the Audi looks really boring and pedestrian. Even if the Audi is the better car, I think it may be too conservative. It's a really pretty car in person with the S-Line package.

I'm just curious if Audi's understated design is actually keeping people from making impulse purchases.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

charliemike said:


> Is it possible the A3 Premium is too plain? I see a lot of CLA 250s with the AMG wheels. It seems like that's most of what I see.
> 
> If you compare that with the non-S-Line A3, the Audi looks really boring and pedestrian. Even if the Audi is the better car, I think it may be too conservative. It's a really pretty car in person with the S-Line package.
> 
> I'm just curious if Audi's understated design is actually keeping people from making *impulse* purchases.


Impulse purchases? Eh, maybe. I'd say it's probably not keeping the car from selling overall, though. For everyone who wants something flashy for the "look at me" factor, there's someone who wants just the opposite.

You know what I can say I undeniably favor about the CLA? The front turn signals. As well as I can see, Mercedes made the bi-color LED strip standard on the CLA, whereas you have to buy Prestige trim (in the US, at least), to get the bi-color LED strip in the A3, by way of the full-LED headlamp unit. To me, there are few small things a manufacturer can do to add an upscale look as cost-effectively as integrating the turn signal and DRL into the same light diffuser. It's just so sharp looking.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> Impulse purchases? Eh, maybe. I'd say it's probably not keeping the car from selling overall, though. For everyone who wants something flashy for the "look at me" factor, there's someone who wants just the opposite.


If people didn't want the 'look at me' factor, they'd buy a Jetta


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> If people didn't want the 'look at me' factor, they'd buy a Jetta


... but seeing as the A3 is just a Jetta, anyway, I fail to see your point. 

I jest, but the reality is that most of America is unlikely to notice the difference between the two if some of the commentary here is any indication. One would be about a damn fool to buy an A3 expecting any level of “flash," IMO.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> ... One would be about a damn fool to buy an A3 expecting any level of “flash," IMO.


Exactly why it appeals. Great car, low flash. I like sleepers...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RedwinGV (May 11, 2014)

davewg said:


> Exactly why it appeals. Great car, low flash. I like sleepers...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Works for me too. August get here!

One can always find shortcomings. It typically comes down to one's biases and what is important to each. I'm lucky, back seat room has no bearing on my selections lately (One reason I was good with buying an Infiniti EX a few years bac). But I do value ride comfort, handling and acceleration. So I'm in. At least for a few years.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

charliemike said:


> Is it possible the A3 Premium is too plain? I see a lot of CLA 250s with the AMG wheels. It seems like that's most of what I see.
> 
> If you compare that with the non-S-Line A3, the Audi looks really boring and pedestrian. Even if the Audi is the better car, I think it may be too conservative. It's a really pretty car in person with the S-Line package.
> 
> I'm just curious if Audi's understated design is actually keeping people from making impulse purchases.


"emotional" may be a better choice of words than "impulse". And I agree, the sline/s3 package makes all the difference.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

Dan Halen said:


> Impulse purchases? Eh, maybe. I'd say it's probably not keeping the car from selling overall, though. For everyone who wants something flashy for the "look at me" factor, there's someone who wants just the opposite.
> 
> You know what I can say I undeniably favor about the CLA? The front turn signals. As well as I can see, Mercedes made the bi-color LED strip standard on the CLA, whereas you have to buy Prestige trim (in the US, at least), to get the bi-color LED strip in the A3, by way of the full-LED headlamp unit. To me, there are few small things a manufacturer can do to add an upscale look as cost-effectively as integrating the turn signal and DRL into the same light diffuser. It's just so sharp looking.


Why do I get the sense Dan is going to be driving around town looking for opportunities to use his bi-color turn signals?


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Chimera said:


> Why do I get the sense Dan is going to be driving around town looking for opportunities to use his bi-color turn signals?


With a big mirror mounted to the front bumper so he can see them in action...:laugh:

All kidding aside I do agree with him that its a much better thought out integration than separate DRL/signals. I do think the winking off of the DRLs when the signals are on is sort of cool.


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## misaka (Feb 8, 2013)

Dan Halen said:


> You know what I can say I undeniably favor about the CLA? The front turn signals. As well as I can see, Mercedes made the bi-color LED strip standard on the CLA, whereas you have to buy Prestige trim (in the US, at least), to get the bi-color LED strip in the A3, by way of the full-LED headlamp unit. To me, there are few small things a manufacturer can do to add an upscale look as cost-effectively as integrating the turn signal and DRL into the same light diffuser. It's just so sharp looking.


And yet you get stuff like this...


















Because nothing says upscale like Garmin. In addition, I don't know why manufacturers in general don't integrate the display into the dash, or if they're going to make it look like that, make it disappear so it has some reason to look like it was stuck on. The huge bezel on that thing looks like it came out of the most prestigious knock off factories in china.


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## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

Heh that *is* pretty silly looking. Like they couldnt have raised the price another $150 and put in a 2 inch larger screen with reasonably sized bezel.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

misaka said:


> And yet you get stuff like this...
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Because nothing says upscale like Garmin. In addition, I don't know why manufacturers in general don't integrate the display into the dash, or if they're going to make it look like that, make it disappear so it has some reason to look like it was stuck on. The huge bezel on that thing looks like it came out of the most prestigious knock off factories in china.


This. This x 1,000.


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## ssaylor (Jul 16, 2006)

Oh, come on.. would you own a car that looks like this? It's the Hunchback that should be running around Notre Dam rooftops. :laugh:


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

The biggest sin in that post is linking to a 3.5 MB 3,363px × 1,603px image.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Dan Halen said:


> May: 2,261 units, and probably much closer to 100% buyer deliveries than either of the prior two months. They're claiming 5,283 since launch.


June: 2,452 units; 7,735 since launch. Meanwhile, dealer inventories appear to remain strong, pointing to a solid pipeline for the US market.

They're trending toward 31,000 units per year. Without a TDI. Without an S3. Without any sportback. Without the Q3. That last one is probably major.

With the high likelihood of moving more than 40,000 Q5s this year, I can't even imagine what the upside of the Q3 may be. Could they be on track for 100,000 units per year for the A/S/Q3 product line within a couple years?


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Seems like the could, especially after the Q3 moves to MQB architecture in the U.S.

What got me in the sales numbers posted today...

_Sales of the Audi Q7 increased 16.5% to 1,429 vehicles sold for the month...while YTD sales for the Audi Q7 increased 28.2%._


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yep. I continue to shake my head at the absence of viable alternatives in that segment. That's not to say the Q7 is a poor product; it's not, IMO. It's just so damn stale.

At this point, I think it's moving more on the absence of alternatives rather than on its merits alone.


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## jasso86 (Sep 22, 2010)

I had never seen the CLA interior... looks cheap in all senses.. and oldschool/simple... that gps shaped screen... speechless.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

steaguejr said:


> I should of been more specific. We are limited to drivetrain and engines. They do offer about the same for the 1.8/2.0TFSI, but they lack sportswagen/quattro in the mix. I think many people here in the states would pick a 2.0TDI quattro over a 2.0TFSI quattro in a sedan or sportsback.
> 
> Maybe I'm just mad. lol I have been excited for so long from the first time they said they were bringing the S3 over to the States. I couldn't wait to get my hands on a S3 Sportsback. Then they shot me down and just said only Sedan. Then I pulled myself together to just be knocked down again after they said only in S-tronic. Then I convinced myself that all the top exotic cars have this type of trans, so it can't be that bad, right? Then they finally brought the A3 over. Got invited to the Audi party for the release. I sat the in the car and I got disappointed again, it was way smaller than I expected. From front to rear, it is the same size as the B5. I was hoping it would of been close to the size of the A4. All I know is that the S3 test drive better make my eyes roll to the back of my head and make my toes curl.


You don't like the size or options of the A3 nor like the price for the size of the car, and want the A3 to be the size of the A4. Sounds like you are pushing yourself into the wrong car, you want an A4 obviously. Why are you stuck on an A3/S3? You could forgo all the tears and actually shop the car you want... 

I'd think the people shopping the A3 did NOT want an A4 sized vehicle...


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## cyberpmg (Nov 27, 2001)

sevenVT said:


> You don't like the size or options of the A3 nor like the price for the size of the car, and want the A3 to be the size of the A4. Sounds like you are pushing yourself into the wrong car, you want an A4 obviously. Why are you stuck on an A3/S3? You could forgo all the tears and actually shop the car you want...
> 
> I'd think the people shopping the A3 did NOT want an A4 sized vehicle...


People shopping for the A3 DO want an A4... a B5 A4.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

cyberpmg said:


> People shopping for the A3 DO want an A4... a B5 A4.



That sir is so true. The MQB is the first chassis in 14 years that I have been owned that wasn't the B5. 

Though I mean to reference the current gen A4 in my recommendation to the gentleman.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Interesting tidbits on A3 sales

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/04/audi-a3-supplies-tight-stealing-honda-toyota-sales/

and more detail here on where the sales are coming from

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2015-audi-a3-stealing-customers-from-toyota-and-honda.html

Apparently a decent percentage the average buyer is in their 30s, or younger (hipster parties remember?)


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/10/audi-a3-outselling-mercedes-cla/

"Audi A3 outselling Mercedes CLA 2 to 1 in its first 3 months on sale"


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

jrwamp said:


> http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/10/audi-a3-outselling-mercedes-cla/
> 
> "Audi A3 outselling Mercedes CLA 2 to 1 in its first 3 months on sale"


Well that's just a disingenuous headline considering its not the same lifecycle point

A3 first 3 full months - 6871 total
2159
2261
2451

CLA first 3 full months - 11803 total
4895
3623
3285

They got the 2:1 backwards, apples to apples.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

ChrisFu said:


> Well that's just a disingenuous headline considering its not the same lifecycle point
> 
> A3 first 3 full months - 6871 total
> 2159
> ...


While I agree with you in that they should be looking at what you're comparing...if you look at your numbers the trend is in the right direction unlike the CLA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## madmmt (May 28, 2014)

I think they were comparing this past April, May and June..
Not first three of each. 


CLA A3
1575 2159 April 
1214 2261 May 
1658 2451 June 

4447 6871


Even then 1.545:1

I guess if you round it up it is 2:1


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## lostnspace (Jul 6, 2014)

Maybe they're a lot of S3 hold outs. **Kanye shrug**


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## steaguejr (Aug 3, 2006)

lostnspace said:


> Maybe they're a lot of S3 hold outs. **Kanye shrug**



This is the best answer. They should of rolled out with a Quattro TDI is Sedan and Sportback, followed by S3 right after. I bet then there sales would of been top notch. Everyone buys a MB. I drove the CLA and there is no comparison to the Audi. Just look in the engine bay of the CLA, looks like a chevy engine bay.


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## Lpforte (Aug 2, 2011)

ChrisFu said:


> Well that's just a disingenuous headline considering its not the same lifecycle point
> 
> A3 first 3 full months - 6871 total
> 2159
> ...


I still don't think that's apples to apples. The CLA was running unopposed. The A3 has to compete with the CLA which already has some momentum behind it. Who knows what the sales would have been like if the A3 had launched first and the CLA came out later? (I can hear Dan Halen muttering under his breath something about Audi taking so long to get this product on the market).


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I'm much closer to muttering with my wallet. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Lpforte said:


> I still don't think that's apples to apples. The CLA was running unopposed. The A3 has to compete with the CLA which already has some momentum behind it. Who knows what the sales would have been like if the A3 had launched first and the CLA came out later? (I can hear Dan Halen muttering under his breath something about Audi taking so long to get this product on the market).


Excellent point.

Also, the A3 is building momentum in the first 3 months, unlike the CLA where sales have dropped.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

I'm no CLA fan, but the one item that we cannot account for here is how capacity restricted Mercedes is. They stated toward the end of last year that 2014 was going to see very limited availability of the CLA due to high market demand around the world. Mercedes simply doesn't have the manufacturing footprint that Audi does. 

I'll take Mercedes at their word for now.


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## chiphead (May 12, 2011)

I think Audi should have released the S3 exclusively. Not saying A3 isn't a competent car, but it was watered down to meet sales target. The performance/luxury delta between VW and its brethren is to small to justify 2 compact sedans in the price range.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

chiphead said:


> I think Audi should have released the S3 exclusively. Not saying A3 isn't a competent car, but it was watered down to meet sales target. The performance/luxury delta between VW and its brethren is to small to justify 2 compact sedans in the price range.



Um yeah . What you saying is like Apple should have brought out the iPhone 5s and then after a few months later launch the iphone 5 . Does not make any sense. If iphone 5s fails then for sure the iphone 5 will fail so why start with most expensive and out of budget for 70% of people when you trying to focus one getting the young hipsters in tight jeans barley holding on to a coffee maker job.


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## chiphead (May 12, 2011)

Most gen Y "hipsters" don't drive, or they rent through zipcar, or rideshare through uber, lyft, or use black taxi apps like Hailo.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/07/06/why-generation-y-isnt-catching-car-fever/

"They no longer see the driver’s license as liberating them from the suffocating embrace of their parents. The car, to them, is a passe form of prestige, of assuming, through the BMW or Mercedes label, a dignity beyond what the owner knows she’s worth.

Generation Y eschews all this. To them, that electrifying moment we all experienced when Dad first gave us the car keys and told us to be back at 11 p.m. (no beer stains or other spots in the car, for God’s sake) has been beneficially replaced by the glowing moment when their eager little fingers lovingly, incredulously caressed their first smart phone."

I suspect most A3's will be bought be empty-nesters looking to replace their CUVs or dinks who need a sporty alternative to Jettas and Prii. It lacks the panache that BMW 3 and A4 have with young professionals getting their first real paychecks.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

chiphead said:


> Most gen Y "hipsters" don't drive, or they rent through zipcar, or rideshare through uber, lyft, or use black taxi apps like Hailo.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/07/06/why-generation-y-isnt-catching-car-fever/
> 
> ...


I'd disagree with that. That Gen Y argument has been so played out at this point. I think the real reason that Gen Y isn't scooping up cars is that they don't have the money to do so (student loans, lack of employment). 

There's been a lot of counter arguments to the logic in the article you posted (jalopnik, etc). If you don't live in a major metropolitan area, you still need a car. I saw a video trying to prove the forbes article's point a while back where they were asking New York hipsters why their generation didn't need cars...well...they live in NYC. Ask the same question to a person who lives in the average sized American city and I guarantee you'll get a different answer.

Personally I'm also counter to that article's reasoning (as a Gen Y'er myself)...but maybe I'm an outlier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nickjs1984 (Jul 30, 2009)

Could these latest sales figures (as reported by Autoblog) finally put this thread to rest, do we think? Not that there hasn't been fun conversation to follow in here, but it does seem all of the doom and gloom has been somewhat premature.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

nickjs1984 said:


> Could these latest sales figures (as reported by Autoblog) finally put this thread to rest, do we think? Not that there hasn't been fun conversation to follow in here, but it does seem all of the doom and gloom has been somewhat premature.


Agreed, I think the car is doing and going to do just fine.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

nickjs1984 said:


> Could these latest sales figures (as reported by Autoblog) finally put this thread to rest, do we think? Not that there hasn't been fun conversation to follow in here, but it does seem all of the doom and gloom has been somewhat premature.


I guess you missed the part where that's the exact article we were discussing posted by Davewg


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

madmmt said:


> I think they were comparing this past April, May and June..
> Not first three of each.
> 
> 
> ...



Oh i realize what they were comparing here. But as Travis mentioned, its not like the CLA is demand limited, its entirely supply limited the past few months.

Audi is attempting to spin this 3 month set into the idea that the A3 is selling better than the CLA on the merits of the car and not supply and demand.


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## nickjs1984 (Jul 30, 2009)

ChrisFu said:


> I guess you missed the part where that's the exact article we were discussing posted by Davewg


Yeah, I may well have. I stopped following this thread too closely around page 4. Sorry about that.


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## madmmt (May 28, 2014)

ChrisFu said:


> Oh i realize what they were comparing here. But as Travis mentioned, its not like the CLA is demand limited, its entirely supply limited the past few months.
> 
> Audi is attempting to spin this 3 month set into the idea that the A3 is selling better than the CLA on the merits of the car and not supply and demand.




Totally agree you, with them making it look better than it is. Rounding up 1.545:1 to 2:1. Really? Hence the smiley.


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

All great, except Audi isn't the one claiming 2-to-1 sales, Autoblog is.



> It lacks the panache that BMW 3 and A4 have with young professionals getting their first real paychecks.


And here I thought the A3 and A4 looked the same to everyone?! It is however true enough that most people (regardless of age) view cars as modes of transportation, point A to point B, and nothing more. It would just happen to be more true for people who have less money. Of the people I know with a car over 20k (that they actually bought themselves), there's an mk6 gti and bmw1. That forbes article does have a slight ring of truth in one regard. Car used to be *the* status symbol. Now, it's less clear. I'm in that generation, and I don't even know, but I'm sure it's far worse (and far less tangible) than an automobile.

Anecdote: I actually heard some kids (20-somethings) talking about how they try to make reddit posts every day with the sole goal being to get rated up. Worse than a car by far. Icing on the cake, his most recent success involved spongebob squarepants references.


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