# Apr or unitronic??? Suggestions plz



## Beiza_alms (Sep 6, 2011)

I have an 02 audi tt 225 i got 3inch turbo back 42dd intake forge silicone hoses, kinetic motorsprts front mount


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

Tapps stage 1 file is a monster designed around what you have for mods. Unitronic is my 2nd choice. It is also a very good file. I have not got a chance to sample the APR file which is a well know file, just not quite as aggressive as the Tapp (Eurodyne) and Unitronic files :thumbup: 

I am sure others will chime in with there experiences of files.


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

*Uni*

I have Unitronic stage 2 on my '00 180 Quattro and it is pretty solid. 42dd 3' dp w/ cat. Huge air filter, 2.5'' cat back and it is pretty quick! I recommend have a fmic though. I need one bad with all of this!

Alec


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## chrisc351 (Feb 17, 2011)

Just curious, what kind of gains does Eurodyne offer? I was thinking of going with Unitronic myself


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## Beiza_alms (Sep 6, 2011)

I might try eurodyne, found a shop here in houston might go and check it out thanks,


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Whichever has a dealer closest to you and whichever supports your long term plans as far as upgrades.


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

*Experience with APR*

Just thought I would share my experience with APR. I have the 93 Octane tune on a 01 225.. 

My ECU only supports one program, but I know newer vehicles can support multiple programs which the driver can manipulate without visiting the tuner. The cost of adding the extra programs was minimal when I checked into it.

I don't have any experience with other vendors, however I am quite pleased with what the flash tune offers over stock performance. The only upgrades I "had" were 42 DD intake and Forge 008 Diverter Valve and after replacing worn vacuum lines and a dying MAF the car runs quit well in my opinion. 

Not sure what else would be helpful, but I have some requested / actual boost logs in my thread if you want to compare to others.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Boulderhead said:


> I have some requested / actual boost logs in my thread if you want to compare to others.


Any chance you can send me the raw data? I prefer graphs in psi instead of mbar.


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

20v master said:


> Any chance you can send me the raw data? I prefer graphs in psi instead of mbar.


Roger that :thumbup: Would you like the tuned and the stock logs, or just tuned?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

20v master said:


> whichever supports your long term plans as far as upgrades.


That's about it ^

A chip tune is a chip tune. They are all pretty close to one another minus APR which is extra conservative. Unitronic / Maestro will offer you opportunities to upgrade, change turbos and do deletes while others do not. In Uni's case it's with added cost, in Maestro's case it's a bigger bill up front.


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

I've been hearing really good things about Gonzo tunes, seems to be the best choice I think plus its $350 for a stage 2 tune vs 600 from uni STG 2 or 500 from apr.


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## born2live (Feb 3, 2012)

I'm Running Unitronic Stage 1+ on mine and it is very solid ! I really like their tune


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Boulderhead said:


> Roger that :thumbup: Would you like the tuned and the stock logs, or just tuned?


Just tuned please.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Audiguy84 said:


> I've been hearing really good things about Gonzo tunes, seems to be the best choice I think plus its $350 for a stage 2 tune vs 600 from uni STG 2 or 500 from apr.


+1 
Gonzo tuning is where my vote will go as well! True custom tune, tailored to your specific setup instead of stage box tune that gets loaded on every car. Plus you get the ability to be tuned remotely using a vagcom cable (no need to go to a dealer for flashes, updates, and revisions). Below, is what I posted in a another thread, it highlights the extra features that you also can get with Gonzo on top of being a true custom remap (using various logs taken from your car). Let him know that Madmax sent you and you'll be well taken care of!




Marcus_Aurelius said:


> My pick would be Gonzo Tuning! They offer full *custom* tunes based on your specific car at a price competitive to the other generic "off the shelf" box remap like the one you mentioned. These type of "one size fit all" flash could have been the norm before, but are obsolete nowadays! On top of that you get much better tune that reflect the advancement made in understanding the complex ME7 logic. There is also a plethora of cool features that are also possible with the tune. Tell me how many of these features you got with your Revo tune:
> 
> -Stationary rev limit
> -Boost building code implementation with the launch control (seperate from the two step)
> ...


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## born2live (Feb 3, 2012)

Who's Gonzo? i searched his address and i got a junk yard, no thank you, i will stick to APR or Unitronic


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

born2live said:


> Who's Gonzo? i searched his address and i got a junk yard, no thank you, i will stick to APR or Unitronic


You have a lot to learn. Or maybe you know it all already.. APR sucks! Uni is still a canned tune, but better than APR. If someone is nice enough to give you info, smarten up and listen


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

Please search gonzo tuning....... Go to the 1.8t section and read a few of the threads made talking about them...


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

born2live said:


> Who's Gonzo? i searched his address and i got a junk yard, no thank you, i will stick to APR or Unitronic


Typed "Gonzo tuning" on Google and got a boatload of returns. On top of the list is his website, and I'm sure a casual trip to the 1.8t technical would net you some relevant threads on the very first page:
https://www.gonzotuning.com/

I don't necessarily care to spoon feed noobs with preconceived notions, but there are others that could benefit from the info. You want to be a "bandwagoneer" and stick to APR (a brand that pulled the plug on anything 1.8t and don't care about the platforms powered by it), and Unitronic with their lovely can tune, be everyone's guest. Your car, your money! But when you come up with a statement and an opinion based on an half-ass search, you could be ruining it for others that would have appreciated a superior product for their investment. It helps you know to inform yourself before having opinions on something highly recommended by the ones who push the limits of this platform and help make it reach the level of development that it has! :wave:


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

There are much better options than Uni or APR... as everyone has already said.

I've had Uni for 4 years now and I've always been underwhelmed by it. It's a decent tune - but decent doesn't cut it. Their customer service is an absolute joke too.

Along with Tapp, how about United Motorsport, DO Tuning or Gonzo - these are all good options that are adaptable to your car both now and in the future :thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

All_Euro said:


> There are much better options than Uni or APR... as everyone has already said.
> 
> I've had Uni for 4 years now and I've always been underwhelmed by it. It's a decent tune - but decent doesn't cut it. Their customer service is an absolute joke too.
> 
> Along with Tapp, how about United Motorsport, DO Tuning or Gonzo - these are all good options that are adaptable to your car both now and in the future :thumbup:


Great post with some diversity! 
Besides UM, DO Tuning, or Gonzo, I think we need to plug Malone Tuning in there as well (although I heard that he can get overwhelmed with work and difficult to reach... but nothing is worse than the big name customer service). All of these options are more updated and customized than the dino tunes that were the standard a decade ago. I still give Gonzo the vote though, we ride him so much in the that when he got his act together he deserves and has owned his respect! 

PS:
I'm still waiting on some actuators to arrive so I can kick that project. Be patient, I haven't dropped the ball :beer:


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

I would suggest to avoid the UM stuff.


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## born2live (Feb 3, 2012)

i completely understand your logic but personally i don't feel comfortable taking my car to a junk yard for tuning, therefore I'd rather stick with the top dogs ''APR or Unitronic'' my opinion..
and he copied from Unitronic, i don't know man it just gets me uncomfortable !


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## VWstung (Dec 19, 2010)

I have Uni Stage 1+ on my stockish 225

Personally I think Unitronic is a better product

A big :thumbup: for me is having a local dealer that can install in 1 day and work with any problems


Many VW dealers now offer APR, Gonzo Tuning requires shipping the ECU or waiting till Waterfest, I would trust Malone if I wanted my TDI tuned


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## born2live (Feb 3, 2012)

VWstung said:


> I have Uni Stage 1+ on my stockish 225
> 
> Personally I think Unitronic is a better product
> 
> ...


exactly and Unitronic software is flashed at my VW Dealerships


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

born2live said:


> i completely understand your logic but personally i don't feel comfortable taking my car to a junk yard for tuning, therefore I'd rather stick with the *crap* dogs ''APR or Unitronic'' my opinion..


Although I, and others with actual experience to form their opinion, see it differently, good luck to you. To each their own! :beer:


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## misternoob (Oct 25, 2009)

born2live said:


> i completely understand your logic but personally i don't feel comfortable taking my car to a junk yard for tuning, therefore I'd rather stick with the top dogs ''APR or Unitronic'' my opinion..





born2live said:


> Who's Gonzo? i searched his address and i got a junk yard, no thank you, i will stick to APR or Unitronic


Not a junk yard. I've been there its all shops.

You're going to be annoyed that you spent $450+ on a generic tune. At least with Gonzo you have the opportunity to get some form of customization. Save the $150 and get a diverter valve.


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## FullyLoadedCarat (Nov 20, 2010)

Anyone have Gonzo's email?

I'd love to shoot him an email about a tune/egr delete but its not on the website!

Thanks!


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

FullyLoadedCarat said:


> Anyone have Gonzo's email?
> 
> I'd love to shoot him an email about a tune/egr delete but its not on the website!
> 
> Thanks!


[email protected]


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## steve-o 16v GLI (Jun 26, 2005)

born2live said:


> i completely understand your logic but personally i don't feel comfortable taking my car to a junk yard for tuning, therefore I'd rather stick with the top dogs ''APR or Unitronic'' my opinion..
> and he copied from Unitronic, i don't know man it just gets me uncomfortable !


This guy is obviously trolling or completely oblivious.


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## VWstung (Dec 19, 2010)

LOL

but you did bring up another funny topic;
Gonzo totally copy and pasted from Unitronics website


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

I lol'd at "top dogs APR and Unitronic":laugh:

How's that Kool-aid.. Sheep?


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## FullyLoadedCarat (Nov 20, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> [email protected]


Got my answers :thumbup:

Will be tuning with Gonzo


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

FullyLoadedCarat said:


> Got my answers :thumbup:
> 
> Will be tuning with Gonzo


I think thats really the best option right now. As soon as I get the new F23 in, we're going E85 tune from Gonzo (Come onnnn tax returns!! .  )Great guy to deal with:thumbup:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Just wanted to hop in here and say that GONZO is the way to go period! I recently switched from Uni to Gonzo on my hybrid set-up and it's like night and day. The gonzo tune is so much more legit than the Uni tune its ridiculous. Idle, part throttle,boost,WOT...everything is soooooooo much better. Gonzo is a good dude and knows what he's doing and can custom tune your set-up. My fuel trims have never looked so good..lol There are some other guys in the 1.8t forum that are Big Turbo who have switched and they all say the same. Everyone loves their new Gonzo tune! Plus Gonzo is the only one who really cares about the 1.8t platform at this time.:thumbup::beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

VWstung said:


> I have Uni Stage 1+ on my stockish 225
> 
> Personally I think Unitronic is a better product
> 
> ...





born2live said:


> exactly and Unitronic software is flashed at my VW Dealerships


WRONG AGAIN....Gonzo can flash your car remotely while you chill at your house...lol. All you get at a Uni dealer is a canned tune and thats all. If it doesn't work the best with your car...o-well....your SOL. The most your going to get is a re-flash of the same file and then they will blame all problems on your hardware. With Gonzo he will flash you and then you can go run a log and and he will tailor the tune even more to get your boost, timing right where it needs to be and get your fuel trims as close to perfect as possible etc.. Gonzo re-flashed my whip twice in an hour on a sunday while I parlayed in my garage working on my mk2 in house slippers. As soon as I pulled out of the driveway I could feel a night and day difference. Gonzo responded back to any text or email within 30min even if it was 11pm. All i got from my uni tune was over boost and a lousy mbc..haha. Speaking of overboost... Gonzo has been able to control boost flawlessly with hybrid turbos when the "big dog" tuners say it isn't possible and you need a MBC. Whatever...nevermind...go with Uni or APR...lol
Gonzo will tune everything I own from now on...:wave:


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

*Software options*

This has been really helpful to explore the different options in software tuning. From plug and play to custom development, it's nice to know their are different options out there to support many needs and skill levels....Even if I did buy an off the shelf option to start out with! 

My excuse is that I didn't know any better until this thread :beer:


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## FullyLoadedCarat (Nov 20, 2010)

^
In here again to say this.

Can't say that I was particularly in the market for a tune, but after seeing the pricing, everyones reviews, and a quick email that he'll write the emissions delete into the tune no extra charge sold me. Only real gripe is that I'll have to ship him my ECU, but I figure I can bike to work for a week knowing its going to be worth the wait .


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## Alec's TT (Jan 28, 2013)

*Mad*

Ahh i am so mad after spending $650 on uni, i wish i had known about gonzo two years ago  
$400 for a tune with options and launch control sounds like a heck of a deal.


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## crazybohunk (May 24, 2011)

*Apr or Unitronic*



born2live said:


> i completely understand your logic but personally i don't feel comfortable taking my car to a junk yard for tuning, therefore I'd rather stick with the top dogs ''APR or Unitronic'' my opinion..
> and he copied from Unitronic, i don't know man it just gets me uncomfortable !
> 
> 
> ...


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

FullyLoadedCarat said:


> ^
> In here again to say this.
> 
> Can't say that I was particularly in the market for a tune, but after seeing the pricing, everyones reviews, and a quick email that he'll write the emissions delete into the tune no extra charge sold me. Only real gripe is that I'll have to ship him my ECU, but I figure I can bike to work for a week knowing its going to be worth the wait .


Did you read my post? Unless he tells you so, you will not have to send him the ECU. I think he only requires BIG TURBO tunes to be sent to him. He flashed my car, Max's car and others remotely. :thumbup:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

crazybohunk said:


> born2live said:
> 
> 
> > i completely understand your logic but personally i don't feel comfortable taking my car to a junk yard for tuning, therefore I'd rather stick with the top dogs ''APR or Unitronic'' my opinion..
> ...


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## FullyLoadedCarat (Nov 20, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> Did you read my post? Unless he tells you so, you will not have to send him the ECU. I think he only requires BIG TURBO tunes to be sent to him. He flashed my car, Max's car and others remotely. :thumbup:


No I'm aware of your post, albiet not entirely sure how remote flashing works...

But I'm guessing it has something to do with Vag-com, something my broke ass macbook doesnt support!


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

FullyLoadedCarat said:


> No I'm aware of your post, albiet not entirely sure how remote flashing works...
> 
> But I'm guessing it has something to do with Vag-com, something my broke ass macbook doesnt support!


haha...you're right. :laugh::thumbup: If you had a windows laptop and a cable it could be done remotely. :beer:


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

FullyLoadedCarat said:


> No I'm aware of your post, albiet not entirely sure how remote flashing works...
> 
> But I'm guessing it has something to do with Vag-com, something my broke ass macbook doesnt support!


Paralells and Win 7 or lower is your friend...If your going to try and tune with a Mac you need a Windows VM.


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## FullyLoadedCarat (Nov 20, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> haha...you're right. :laugh::thumbup: If you had a windows laptop and a cable it could be done remotely. :beer:


Its a 5 minute drive and a 10 minute bike ride to work. I'll probably survive :laugh:

A windows laptop has been high on the priorities list, just don't need a brand new one so I'm waiting for one to pop up on craigslist!


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Great post with some diversity!
> Besides UM, DO Tuning, or Gonzo, I think we need to plug Malone Tuning in there as well (although I heard that he can get overwhelmed with work and difficult to reach... but nothing is worse than the big name customer service). All of these options are more updated and customized than the dino tunes that were the standard a decade ago. I still give Gonzo the vote though, we ride him so much in the that when he got his act together he deserves and has owned his respect!
> 
> PS:
> I'm still waiting on some actuators to arrive so I can kick that project. Be patient, I haven't dropped the ball :beer:


After I posted I realized I forgot to add J-Fonz… his tunes/builds have been tearing up the streets/tracks for a while. Both your and Vegeta's reviews of Gonzo tunes have sealed the quality in my mind… Gonzos on-line image could really use some work though… Either way - box tunes are :facepalm:

Ya, no worries about the actuator - I know how it goes. It will be a little bit now before I can pull my turbo again anyway… but I'll get it set up for testing when the time comes :beer:



[email protected] said:


> I would suggest to avoid the UM stuff.


This is interesting. I've heard a fair amount of good things about UM and have been really interested in their Rotrex development as well as their octane indifferent tunes… can you expand a little on yours or others' experiences?


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## Letter K (Jan 8, 2011)

how does one obtain this...gonzo tune?


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## misternoob (Oct 25, 2009)

Letter K said:


> how does one obtain this...gonzo tune?


https://www.gonzotuning.com/


Here's a thread that pretty much sums it up. It doesnt come from somebody that supported Gonzo from the start. In fact, it was started by someone who would troll his threads and bash him.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5940393-Gonzo-CUSTOM-BT-file


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

All_Euro said:


> This is interesting. I've heard a fair amount of good things about UM and have been really interested in their Rotrex development as well as their octane indifferent tunes… can you expand a little on yours or others' experiences?


A dead engine sitting on my work table. As well as having to have a few customers have to have theirs rebuilt from the same issue.

It would be nice to see some of the new tunes run back to back with some of the older files on the same car to see some real data and differences.

A very reputable tuner said the following "Buy the exact car that your tuner has, run the same exact setup and you will not have problems." This is the reason I went with Tapp as he has a TT that is his daily when he is not riding his bike . Was running GIAX-X prior to Eurodyne.

I bought Maestro prior to becoming a dealer as I no longer wanted to be chained to having to go back and forth with emails and such to get revisions. All I needed to do, was if I changed anything would be to get some dyno time and make some adjustments. 

My current ranking is as follows for the 1.8T, if we get talking about 2.0T's/2.5T's/2.7T's ect that is a whole other topic:

First choice : Eurodyne or MRC or custom tuned EPL (Not sure if Tony still does this as he seems very busy with the R8 and 911 Turbo community)

If all else fails : GIAC, Unitronic and REVO

APR is a good mild file for those who want a bump in power but to retain a closer to stock feel.

As for J-Fonz, Gonzo and Malone... We have yet to get any experience with these files. Being that they are the new kids on the block, they have some shoes to fill in. 

With well over 60k on Eurodyne just on my TT with plenty of track days, I can solidly suggest that tune for the long haul. Same for GIAC, Unitronic and APR. Which at the end of the day you will want the tune that best fits your immediate and future needs. 

:thumbup:


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Unitronic, sh.t
Ive been waiting since October for revised files
Steve


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> As for J-Fonz, Gonzo and Malone... We have yet to get any experience with these files. Being that they are the new kids on the block, they have some shoes to fill in.
> 
> With well over 60k on Eurodyne just on my TT with plenty of track days, I can solidly suggest that tune for the long haul. Same for GIAC, Unitronic and APR. Which at the end of the day you will want the tune that best fits your immediate and future needs.


That's the thing Noah, some very experienced and knowledgable members in the 1.8t community had the same thinking, but ventured out to the "new school" tunes (mostly out of frustration from the "big dogs") only to realize that they were in fact garbage in comparison. I am not saying that these old canned tunes don't make power over stock, because they do, but are leaving way too much to be desired. They are also not any safer than the new, more advanced and developped method of tuning. 

Many swore by these "solid tunes" but as we are all finding out now, they were only solid by default (nothing else to compare with and measure against). Honestly, they all trail behind in terms of tuning logic and plain understanding of the ME7 and here is why: the most advancement in unlocking the ME7 complex logic has come in the past 3-4 years from the techies trying and unlocking new things in places like Nefarious Motorsport (there are new breakthroughs still popping every other day still). All these files were developped many moons ago, and are still using that same basic logic with a few "revisions" here and there (not really changing the core logic).

I personally never thought they were any refined and deserved any merit, but never in my wildest dream would've thought they were that butchered. Just to expose how bad these "solid tunes" are, here is a snapshot of what was on my car (I won't name what brand because this screen name may vanish into thin air as result):












With what can be showed into one screen, you can see that they are a hack at best. There are many more screwed up maps and hacks but that's all that could be showed and crammed in one page. As you can see:
-fueling is a mess
-boost control is hacked with a MAF signal offset on stock sensor
-timing is also upside down 
-there are also many safety thresholds, like for example 'EGT for component protection', that are lowered way down to disable the normal logic. This in turns disable a host of safety maps just so they could get a hacked fueling path to stick.

I never wanted to expose those disappointing practices from the big dogs, but I feel that the community needs to have their eyes opened on what they're getting for their money.

*The file showed here is from my personal car and might be different than the treasure everyone will find in their ECU depending on what brand they used. I am also not affiliated with any companies in any way. In fact, I used to be one of guys giving Gonzo a hard time when he first came out. However, I always try to give anyone or anything a try and have them show their worth. I have my fueling, timing, and boost taken care of mechanically, or using adaptation channels so I make power regardless of who's flash is in the ECU, but it's an eye opener to see how badly orchestrated those so called solid tunes are. My 2 cents! *


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