# My APR Stage 3 GTX 2867R TTS



## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Install:
I got my car back from APTuning, who did a great job on the Stage 3 install. There was an issue with an incorrectly crimped oil hose from APR so they spent extra time looking for an oil leak under load. Also, the downpipe had to be modified to clear the steering rack. I guess the Golf R downpipe isn't a direct bolt on. Another niggle is the v2.1 software which sometimes runs rough at low rpms. I hear this will be corrected in v3.31. So, not a completely smooth install but no fault of APTuning's and hopefully APR will iron out the issues soon.

Numbers:
The car dynoed at 367/363, caused by the DSG limiting torque @4600rpm. So I am getting a Unitronic Stage 3 DSG flash @Tyrolsport which should fix the issue let the engine run to its potential. Then it will be redynoed and hopefully make a couple 1/4 mile passes. APR originally advertised 511chp on 100 octane, but it has been revised down to 476chp. The 93 tune was also revised down 30hp to 443hp. APR was hesitant to release the 100 octane file to me without upgraded rods, but seeing as the output had been lowered to what the 93 tune used to be, it should be fine. I am also not beyond doing some bribing to get it! On Stage 2+ 100 octane it did a [email protected], so looking for low 11's with the DSG launch set to 4200rpm. 


Driving impressions:
There is more lag than the K04, which is to be expected. To compensate, I'm driving in manual mode a lot more to keep the revs above 2K. When the turbo hits full boost (28psi!), the car instantly teleports forward. I can't imagine what it will be like with the DSG working properly. I really need to make some videos since the DSG shifts sound super sick now. Stock catback still keeps it sleeper though under normal driving. Even fuel consumption is the same, 24mpg. I'll be updating this thread as the progress continues.

My mod list:

Engine:
Forge Motorsport CF intake (sweet intake and worth every penny!)
BSH throttle body pipe
BSH PCV blockoff
APR intercooler
APR Stage III GTX2867R kit
APR RFD
APR midpipe
APR high pressure fuel pump
Okada Projects Plasma Direct ignition coils (must have for W/M injection)
Stock backbox (still very civilized sound)
Aquamist HFS6 direct port (best water/meth company in the business)
Howerton Engineering Twin Tank (best 2 gallon tank)
Noise pipe delete



my 3D printed noisepipe blockoff plate  keeps engine smells from entering the cabin once noisepipe is removed


Brakes:
Cayenne 18Z 6-piston calipers
Custom 2-piece rotors
Hawk Blue pads
(this setup saved 11lbs per front wheel over stock)









Suspension & Drivetrain:
Audi Magnetic Ride Control w/ Eibach Pro-Kit
Neuspeed rear anti-swaybar
Haldex Race Controller

Interior:
PLX DM-200 Multigauge
Aquamist DDS3 gauge


Exterior:
Sprint Blue Pearl Effect paint
Audi Accessory fixed spoiler
2011+ TTS foglight grills
18x9.5 +48mm Forgestar F14
Hankook Ventus Evo V12 255/40-18 (this wheel/tire combo saves 40lbs in unsprung weight)
18x8 +35mm R8 V10 reps (need 3mm spacers to clear the front calipers)
Pirelli Cinturato P7 all-season runflats 225/45-18
Tinted sidemarkers


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## VAGKRAFT (May 2, 2007)

Impressive numbers, I love the exterior colour too :thumbup:


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## kerbellh (Apr 20, 2009)

Very nice build...one question where did you get the noise pipe block off plate?


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

kerbellh said:


> Very nice built...one question where did you get the noise pipe block off plate?


designed it myself and printed on my [URL="http://www.printrbot.com]Printrbot[/URL]


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## tt-ho (May 26, 2011)

Sick! Would love to see some videos if you ever get the chance :thumbup:


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

Awesome build! Love the brakes. Looking forward to the updates and interested in the meth you are running.


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## kerbellh (Apr 20, 2009)

Do you have any fuel trim issues with the forge cai? I'm running the same intake so in interested on any info...


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Here's a vid I just made. Hard to tell but at 2 seconds and 4600rpm there is a slight hesitation and the DSG feels like its slipping or disengaging. And after each shift there is a lack of power like timing is being pulled.


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

My APR StageII Rev3.31 behaves this same way. Slight hesitation perhaps a tiny bit slower than yours even. But I can get the car to behave this way starting at approximately 3800 RPM and then sometimes also between 5000RPM and 6000RPM, but it isnt always at the same point. 

Thanks for posting the video


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## 504 medic (Aug 6, 2013)

Great setup...it's hard to find specifics for the TTS...plenty of people have modded their TT or their TTRS and posted about the experience. I would love to know what the factory camber is, and if you changed it on yours.

The multigauge is nice as well.


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## kerbellh (Apr 20, 2009)

Fined said:


> My APR StageII Rev3.31 behaves this same way. Slight hesitation perhaps a tiny bit slower than yours even. But I can get the car to behave this way starting at approximately 3800 RPM and then sometimes also between 5000RPM and 6000RPM, but it isnt always at the same point.
> 
> Thanks for posting the video


When did you get the new update? I been waiting for it for a long time now, APR had told me a few weeks after the golf r was released and it's been over a month already.

Sorry for hijacking the thread...


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## Bezlar (Dec 26, 2003)

kerbellh said:


> When did you get the new update? I been waiting for it for a long time now, APR had told me a few weeks after the golf r was released and it's been over a month already.
> 
> Sorry for hijacking the thread...


This also. And do you like the revised version.


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

@ Bezlar & kerbellh

I went to APR Headquarters in Opelika Alabama and had the remap done last Saturday. 
I cannot compare it to any previous revision because this was my first tune on the car. It seems to be pretty smooth (besides the issue being discussed previously) but like I said, I have no frame of reference. PM me any other questions as Arm1tage thread is a beast and I'd like to leave it that way. 


Now back to the Arm1tage and his sweet StageIII TTS. (no threadjack intended dude, sorry)


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## derek8819 (Jan 29, 2013)

I just had the 3.31 2+ revision done on my TTS at Autobahn South in Baton Rouge. I updated and went from 1 to 2+. The tune is of course a bit more powerful, but so much smoother than before. The stage 1 used to make you feel like the car had horrible turbo lag because of the way the tune was setup. That is all gone now. Feels like an Audi again. I only wish APR had told us it was available.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

More video and stuff.... It's nice to see the TTS stuff... My car likely has the same DSG, but i have a built up clutch pack and stage IV..... But the UM tune i'm sure will make all the difference in the world for you... get it ASAP...


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

kerbellh said:


> Do you have any fuel trim issues with the forge cai? I'm running the same intake so in interested on any info...


hmm so I checked and my LTFT are +17%... I'm guessing the MAF sensor is too close to the filter and it's seeing too much turbulence. Will try to incorporate a flow straightener in somewhere and see if that helps. what numbers are you seeing?


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

sentari said:


> More video and stuff.... It's nice to see the TTS stuff... My car likely has the same DSG, but i have a built up clutch pack and stage IV..... But the UM tune i'm sure will make all the difference in the world for you... get it ASAP...


dayam! your build is amazing. only the best parts and it shows. that vr6 sounds too sweet :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## SKNKWRX (Sep 27, 1999)

Fined said:


> My APR StageII Rev3.31 behaves this same way. Slight hesitation perhaps a tiny bit slower than yours even. But I can get the car to behave this way starting at approximately 3800 RPM and then sometimes also between 5000RPM and 6000RPM, but it isnt always at the same point.
> 
> Thanks for posting the video





kerbellh said:


> When did you get the new update? I been waiting for it for a long time now, APR had told me a few weeks after the golf r was released and it's been over a month already.
> 
> Sorry for hijacking the thread...





Bezlar said:


> This also. And do you like the revised version.





derek8819 said:


> I just had the 3.31 2+ revision done on my TTS at Autobahn South in Baton Rouge. I updated and went from 1 to 2+. The tune is of course a bit more powerful, but so much smoother than before. The stage 1 used to make you feel like the car had horrible turbo lag because of the way the tune was setup. That is all gone now. Feels like an Audi again. I only wish APR had told us it was available.


I had no idea a revision was out for the TTS either. Is there a charge for the revision? Also in going from Stage I to Stage II+ what other modes did you add? Downpipe? HPFP?


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## derek8819 (Jan 29, 2013)

Correct.

I added an Autotech HPFP and a full Milltek TBE. The revision was mainly talked about of the Golf R boards to eliminate compressor surge and the sudden torque that occurred at lower RPMs. I am sure they added lots of other things too because it really feels like a fantastic OEM tune now.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

arm1tage said:


> hmm so I checked and my LTFT are +17%... I'm guessing the MAF sensor is too close to the filter and it's seeing too much turbulence. Will try to incorporate a flow straightener in somewhere and see if that helps. what numbers are you seeing?


So my guess was right, the source of the high LTFT is the reducer right before the MAF. The filter outlet already has a velocity stack so the sped up air hits the angled walls of the reducer and causes extra turbulense. The 4" outlet from the canister reduces down to 3.25" before the MAF in a span of 3".

I've added a 3.25" diameter x 5" long metal tube inside the reducer to keep the diameter the same from canister to MAF. Now LTFT are between +4 and +7%. I've also contacted Forge with the details and am waiting to see if they have an official fix.

So far it drives much better at low rpms in high gear, however I still get some hesitation between 1K and 2.5K which might or might not be MAF related.


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## kerbellh (Apr 20, 2009)

arm1tage said:


> So my guess was right, the source of the high LTFT is the reducer right before the MAF. The filter outlet already has a velocity stack so the sped up air hits the angled walls of the reducer and causes extra turbulense. The 4" outlet from the canister reduces down to 3.25" before the MAF in a span of 3".
> 
> I've added a 3.25" diameter x 5" long metal tube inside the reducer to keep the diameter the same from canister to MAF. Now LTFT are between +4 and +7%. I've also contacted Forge with the details and am waiting to see if they have an official fix.
> 
> So far it drives much better at low rpms in high gear, however I still get some hesitation between 1K and 2.5K which might or might not be MAF related.



I haven't checked mine but a have seen a lot of problems with the golf r using aftermarket intakes, so we do have a problem with the forge cai? I guess in going to give them a call too. Thanks for the info man


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

I have to question the use of aftermarket intakes on the TT... I'm running 500 HP with basically stock (K&N) and a larger MAF and this is providing plenty of the needed air... This was advised from HPA and replaced a CAI that I had...


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

kerbellh said:


> I haven't checked mine but a have seen a lot of problems with the golf r using aftermarket intakes, so we do have a problem with the forge cai? I guess in going to give them a call too. Thanks for the info man


Yes please let them know if you are having an issue. Hopefully we can get a fix soon.



sentari said:


> I have to question the use of aftermarket intakes on the TT... I'm running 500 HP with basically stock (K&N) and a larger MAF and this is providing plenty of the needed air... This was advised from HPA and replaced a CAI that I had...


Good point, if you don't need it then I sure don't, but it does look nice under the hood.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

First launch with stage 3.. timing with my stopwatch I get 0-60 in 3.7s and 0-100 7.9s. Pretty good considering the clutch slip!


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## kerbellh (Apr 20, 2009)

I was able to get a hold with forge about the cai, and they are aware of the fuel trim issues, they told me they are working on a fix in the UK but don't have one right now, they even offered me a full refund. What do you guys think shall we wait or maybe switch to another cai or just go back to stock, u am a little disappointed about this issue.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

kerbellh said:


> I was able to get a hold with forge about the cai, and they are aware of the fuel trim issues, they told me they are working on a fix in the UK but don't have one right now, they even offered me a full refund. What do you guys think shall we wait or maybe switch to another cai or just go back to stock, u am a little disappointed about this issue.


well can't go wrong with stock. are you having drivability issues? my fix on the forge was to insert a metal tube (happened to have a tin can that fit perfect) inside the silicone reducer pre-MAF. after 500 miles of driving the LTFT stays between +4 and +7% during my normal driving and hit a max of +10% in bumper to bumper traffic.


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## kerbellh (Apr 20, 2009)

arm1tage said:


> well can't go wrong with stock. are you having drivability issues? my fix on the forge was to insert a metal tube (happened to have a tin can that fit perfect) inside the silicone reducer pre-MAF. after 500 miles of driving the LTFT stays between +4 and +7% during my normal driving and hit a max of +10% in bumper to bumper traffic.


By any chance do you have pics so I can try to fix it the same way. No I don't have any drivability issues, I'm just concerned about running to lean. Let me know if you can help me out...thanks


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## CorrieG60 (Jan 18, 2004)

Awesome build!!

Question: do the Cayenne 18 calipers bold straight up to the TTS? Which brake discs did you use? Were you able to reuse the standard brake lines?


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

CorrieG60 said:


> Awesome build!!
> 
> Question: do the Cayenne 18 calipers bold straight up to the TTS? Which brake discs did you use? Were you able to reuse the standard brake lines?


Thanks! Here' more info on the brakes: http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137174


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

SKNKWRX said:


> I had no idea a revision was out for the TTS either. Is there a charge for the revision? Also in going from Stage I to Stage II+ what other modes did you add? Downpipe? HPFP?


It's out for several boxcodes. PM me yours and I'll get it put up for you. We didn't do the big announcement for non Golf R cars, we've just been trickling them out as they get done.

Also, I just bought a TTS for myself. So, expect lots of TTS goodies coming out of APR soon.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Also, I just bought a TTS for myself. So, expect lots of TTS goodies coming out of APR soon.


Oooh yeah!! Congrats! I'm hoping your To Do List includes Stage 3 and DSG software! Not much being done with that combo in the states.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

arm1tage said:


> I'm hoping your To Do List includes Stage 3 and DSG software


Yep. It's going to be the test bed for our Stage 3 DSG software and upgraded clutch packs.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yep. It's going to be the test bed for our Stage 3 DSG software and upgraded clutch packs.


Program switching too please!


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## qtroCUB (Mar 22, 2005)

arm1tage said:


> Program switching too please!


I second this!


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

arm1tage said:


> Program switching too please!


Don't worry, TTS just moved to the top of the program switching todo list. 

Edit: To the OP, AWESOME build. I hope mine can be 1/2 as nice.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Don't worry, TTS just moved to the top of the program switching todo list.
> 
> Edit: To the OP, AWESOME build. I hope mine can be 1/2 as nice.


Thanks for the kind words. Look forward to seeing your build!!


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

Really, why do we need program switching with variable timing etc..? Can't these cars adjust to the fuel? Seems unnecessary..... Don't get me wrong... I have it on my 2.0T... But I don't trust my wife to put in 93 each time so I use 91 "tune."


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

sentari said:


> Really, why do we need program switching with variable timing etc..? Can't these cars adjust to the fuel? Seems unnecessary..... Don't get me wrong... I have it on my 2.0T... But I don't trust my wife to put in 93 each time so I use 91 "tune."


They do adjust to some extent, but really run better without timing pull. I want it for 100 octane on W/M and 93 daily driving. Plus a bunch of us already paid for fully loaded ECUs 3 or 4 years ago and are just waiting for APR to deliver.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

arm1tage said:


> They do adjust to some extent, but really run better without timing pull. I want it for 100 octane on W/M and 93 daily driving. Plus a bunch of us already paid for fully loaded ECUs 3 or 4 years ago and are just waiting for APR to deliver.


Bosch ECUs only adjust ignition timing DOWN in response to knock events. They won't adjust up.

When they adjust down, they adjust in fairly large increments.

What this all means is, if you run lower fuel than what the tune is made for, you'll pull more timing than if you had a proper calibration and make significantly less power. 

That's why switching is needed.


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## jrr (Feb 15, 2009)

sentari said:


> Really, why do we need program switching with variable timing etc..? Can't these cars adjust to the fuel? Seems unnecessary..... Don't get me wrong... I have it on my 2.0T... But I don't trust my wife to put in 93 each time so I use 91 "tune."


Besides the performance bennies, those of with warranty would really like a "stock" fall back. I am waiting for the program switching for that reason alone. Sean bring it on and post the pic of of the new TTS or its not real


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

Good info... Thanks...


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

kerbellh said:


> By any chance do you have pics so I can try to fix it the same way. No I don't have any drivability issues, I'm just concerned about running to lean. Let me know if you can help me out...thanks


this shows how I added the tin can and clamped it to the reducer.



















and another fall pic


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

jrr said:


> Besides the performance bennies, those of with warranty would really like a "stock" fall back. I am waiting for the program switching for that reason alone. Sean bring it on and post the pic of of the new TTS or its not real


I'm diligently working on it. I'll try to get some pics up this week.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

few more better pics.. tapatalk resizing is terrible


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## artemstudios (Sep 7, 2013)

What a beast! Car looks great. You're making me miss the east coast with these pictures


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on "needing" an "upgraded" air box...? I see all sorts of things on the VR6 and the one I tested didn't change anything in a dyne test. Then when I put my turbo kit in they said... go stock (or stock K&N replacement.. which I did), it's got plenty of room as long as the MAF is upgraded to your power level.. e

Maybe my application is different, but i've seen so many contraptions that just beg for hot and turbulating air to get into the engine.. 

It would seem easy enough to measure the airflow (O2) as compared to spark/gas to make actual science out of all this...


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

I work in the oil/gas & aero industry and its a well known fact that putting your flowmeter in the right place is critical.
The general consensus is 10 pipe diameters before and 5 after, but this isn't really practical or achievable in the engine bay, but you must try to run straight and minimise joints.
Flow straighteners help and the MAF inserts are reliant on the flow already nearly straight and they are just adding the last few % of straightness and cant be rellied upon to do the hard work.
Im running 4" tube with a 45 degree at the compressor end.
Get on the right track with the basics and their will be less issues.
Steve


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

sentari said:


> I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on "needing" an "upgraded" air box...? I see all sorts of things on the VR6 and the one I tested didn't change anything in a dyne test. Then when I put my turbo kit in they said... go stock (or stock K&N replacement.. which I did), it's got plenty of room as long as the MAF is upgraded to your power level.. e
> 
> Maybe my application is different, but i've seen so many contraptions that just beg for hot and turbulating air to get into the engine..
> 
> It would seem easy enough to measure the airflow (O2) as compared to spark/gas to make actual science out of all this...


When is the intake the limiting factor for the flow? I don't have that answer since my car is running basically TTRS Stage 1 power level due to the DSG limitations. As we all know the TTS and TTRS have basically the same intake.

However the MAF calibration is crucial, the importance I underestimated. So the stock intake could possible limit flow at high outputs, but even worse is if the intake throws off the MAF numbers and the tune runs like sh*t through the whole power band. Stock intake is definitely the safe bet on a canned tune.

You mentioned you are running an upgraded MAF. If the MAF is larger, your intake diameter should follow suit to get all the potential. At that point I do think the stock intake is holding you back. If the MAF size is the same, and only the calibration is different, then that proves flow is not that limiting at all. That leaves open the question if custom tuning to a specific high-flow intake will yield gains (I think so).


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

arm1tage said:


> When is the intake the limiting factor for the flow? I don't have that answer since my car is running basically TTRS Stage 1 power level due to the DSG limitations. As we all know the TTS and TTRS have basically the same intake.
> 
> However the MAF calibration is crucial, the importance I underestimated. So the stock intake could possible limit flow at high outputs, but even worse is if the intake throws off the MAF numbers and the tune runs like sh*t through the whole power band. Stock intake is definitely the safe bet on a canned tune.
> 
> You mentioned you are running an upgraded MAF. If the MAF is larger, your intake diameter should follow suit to get all the potential. At that point I do think the stock intake is holding you back. If the MAF size is the same, and only the calibration is different, then that proves flow is not that limiting at all. That leaves open the question if custom tuning to a specific high-flow intake will yield gains (I think so).


Not to discount your points about MAF's and the TT/TTS models, but the TT-RS does not use a MAF sensor... The ECU runs in Speed Density mode using MAP and IAT data (primarily), instead of calculating the air mass based on MAF data.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

hightechrdn said:


> Not to discount your points about MAF's and the TT/TTS models, but the TT-RS does not use a MAF sensor... The ECU runs in Speed Density mode using MAP and IAT data (primarily), instead of calculating the air mass based on MAF data.


Yes I knew that, however the air intakes are basically the same minus the MAF.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

arm1tage said:


> Yes I knew that, however the air intakes are basically the same minus the MAF.


Yep.. and on the TT-RS, we didn't have to change the intake until we were over 600hp.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

I think this basically settles it and is in-line with my FT-500 tune from HPA... I guess the point is that opening up more air input to a NA engine or even a stock TT-S etc.. is completely pointless... And the data suggests this... at least on this platform...



[email protected] said:


> Yep.. and on the TT-RS, we didn't have to change the intake until we were over 600hp.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yep.. and on the TT-RS, we didn't have to change the intake until we were over 600hp.


Would be best to keep this a secret though lest the marketing people get their panties in a bunch!


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

*Blank off plate*

Arm1tage would you consider making up another noise delete blank off plate?


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

sentari said:


> I think this basically settles it and is in-line with my FT-500 tune from HPA... I guess the point is that opening up more air input to a NA engine or even a stock TT-S etc.. is completely pointless... And the data suggests this... at least on this platform...


I didn't make a blanket statement. Intakes make a significant difference on many platforms. Including the GOLF-R, which shares a powertrain with the TT-S.

The issue at point is whether the stock airbox is restrictive at a certain power level. On the TT-S and TT-RS, it's not. On many other cars that use the FSI engine, it is. It's something that has to be measured for each car.

Or, look at our website. If an intake doesn't make power, we don't sell it.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

Brd.Prey said:


> Arm1tage would you consider making up another noise delete blank off plate?


+1

I'd also like one!


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Brd.Prey said:


> Arm1tage would you consider making up another noise delete blank off plate?


Sure.. it's not printed with much resolution though!


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## kerbellh (Apr 20, 2009)

arm1tage said:


> Sure.. it's not printed with much resolution though!



Hey thanks for the pics man, I got the Stage 2+ V3.31now and its really nice compared to the old one. I also checked the fuel issues again and it was showing 4.5% i am going to double check again before I make a decision on going back to stock. I would also be interested in one of the block off plates even if its not printed correct but just to block the hole. What would the the price for it? I can Paypal the money right away.

Thanks

Kerbell


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

So in lieu of collecting money for the plates, I decided to offer them in exchange for a donation to Red Cross for Typhoon Haiyan relief. *Please see the thread here.*


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## kerbellh (Apr 20, 2009)

arm1tage said:


> So in lieu of collecting money for the plates, I decided to offer them in exchange for a donation to Red Cross for Typhoon Haiyan relief. *Please see the thread here.*


Pm sent


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

usually my car is garaged but I snapped some pics after a rain. nice water beading due to opticoat.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

2+'d mine yesterday. Validating the DSG tune against the higher power levels and it's the jam.

Headed to Stage 3 in 2 weeks assuming everything continues happy with the 2+.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> 2+'d mine yesterday. Validating the DSG tune against the higher power levels and it's the jam.
> 
> Headed to Stage 3 in 2 weeks assuming everything continues happy with the 2+.


Great news, how are you liking the power? I'm sure you know, Stage 3 will be awesome, but 2+ is great for the immediate spool too. 

Keep us updated on your TTS and the DSG tune!


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

arm1tage said:


> Great news, how are you liking the power? I'm sure you know, Stage 3 will be awesome, but 2+ is great for the immediate spool too.
> 
> Keep us updated on your TTS and the DSG tune!


It's pretty sweet. I've got lots of time in Golf Rs (Stages 2+ and 3), so I'm quite familiar with the power. Being 'Merican though, I've never experienced a high output FSI mated to a DSG.

It's a blast! Everybody should have one!


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Don't worry, TTS just moved to the top of the program switching todo list.
> 
> Edit: To the OP, AWESOME build. I hope mine can be 1/2 as nice.


I believe you said in another thread that the stage 1 beta tune resulted in a run of 12.4 . So why is the OP only running a 12.25 on stage 3? Is it all because of the DSG tune? Something doesnt seem to add up.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

FastEddie7 said:


> I believe you said in another thread that the stage 1 beta tune resulted in a run of 12.4 . So why is the OP only running a 12.25 on stage 3? Is it all because of the DSG tune? Something doesnt seem to add up.


There's lots and lots and lots of things that play into a 1/4 mile time. Expecting two different cars at two different tracks with different setups, tires, fuels, density altitudes and humidities to be comparable is unrealistic.

There's a 2+ manual Golf R in the 11s, what does that mean?

There's far too many variables involved in drag racing to make any easy comparisons.

Edit:

Just for clarification, mine ran a 12.448. 2 tenths is not a small difference.

Further edit:

I went back and re-read the thread and I feel like I'm being trolled. He ran a 12.25 at Stage 2+. At least read the whole thread before you start bashing. Please.

Slip in question:


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

FastEddie7 said:


> I believe you said in another thread that the stage 1 beta tune resulted in a run of 12.4 . So why is the OP only running a 12.25 on stage 3? Is it all because of the DSG tune? Something doesnt seem to add up.


that 12.25 was on 2+, i haven't timed stage 3 yet...


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

i wasnt bashing. i never said APR is a liar or APR sucks. I said something doesnt seem to be adding up. Hence why i asked you a question. I did skim through the thread ( i read it all awhile ago) and i missed the fact that the 12.25 was a stage 2+. Thats my bad. If that was a stage 3+ run (like i thought) i would hope that you yourself would thing something isnt adding up as well because you say the stage one APR almost ran that. If you think im calling you out from the other thread i still find it hard to believe that a stage 1 ran 12.4's on pump, full interior, and street tires. i would love to see a vid or in person because thats really getting your "bang for your buck". but i have not bashed you or APR in anyway, just a little skepticle (always am, i do countless hours of research before buying a product). I have a B7 and have seen plenty of companies come in and try to tap our market and put up BS numbers or a horrible product. NOT SAYING APR, i'm just always a little skepticle. (look up PES superchargers if you need anymore info on that lol) 

While i know that no 1/4 mile can be duplicated (just like dynos, different variables) i just thought (again thought it stage 3) that it seemed to be low and asked why. Im no way bashing you or OP. Hell i go to tyrol and they work on my S4. im hoping i get to see this bad boy over there one day.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

If you read these boards you will come to the conclusion that all the vendors suck... That's why I have both HPA and APR cars... Two of the worst!


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

FastEddie7 said:


> i wasnt bashing. i never said APR is a liar or APR sucks. I said something doesnt seem to be adding up. Hence why i asked you a question. I did skim through the thread ( i read it all awhile ago) and i missed the fact that the 12.25 was a stage 2+. Thats my bad. If that was a stage 3+ run (like i thought) i would hope that you yourself would thing something isnt adding up as well because you say the stage one APR almost ran that. If you think im calling you out from the other thread i still find it hard to believe that a stage 1 ran 12.4's on pump, full interior, and street tires. i would love to see a vid or in person because thats really getting your "bang for your buck". but i have not bashed you or APR in anyway, just a little skepticle (always am, i do countless hours of research before buying a product). I have a B7 and have seen plenty of companies come in and try to tap our market and put up BS numbers or a horrible product. NOT SAYING APR, i'm just always a little skepticle. (look up PES superchargers if you need anymore info on that lol)
> 
> While i know that no 1/4 mile can be duplicated (just like dynos, different variables) i just thought (again thought it stage 3) that it seemed to be low and asked why. Im no way bashing you or OP. Hell i go to tyrol and they work on my S4. im hoping i get to see this bad boy over there one day.


I apologize for my approach there. We're all good. :beer:

As for the time, this isn't a marketing thing. The DSG tune isn't yet a released product and I didn't post that as an APR thing. I posted it because it was my car and I was proud of the time. 

The video, etc.. will come next year when we release our DSG products.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

A bit behind the time on the DSG products and you will be playing catchup with the other players on the market, pity really as I would have been interested in what you can offer me with a stage 5 setup with DSG.
Steve


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

FastEddie7 said:


> i wasnt bashing. i never said APR is a liar or APR sucks. I said something doesnt seem to be adding up. Hence why i asked you a question. I did skim through the thread ( i read it all awhile ago) and i missed the fact that the 12.25 was a stage 2+. Thats my bad. If that was a stage 3+ run (like i thought) i would hope that you yourself would thing something isnt adding up as well because you say the stage one APR almost ran that. If you think im calling you out from the other thread i still find it hard to believe that a stage 1 ran 12.4's on pump, full interior, and street tires. i would love to see a vid or in person because thats really getting your "bang for your buck". but i have not bashed you or APR in anyway, just a little skepticle (always am, i do countless hours of research before buying a product). I have a B7 and have seen plenty of companies come in and try to tap our market and put up BS numbers or a horrible product. NOT SAYING APR, i'm just always a little skepticle. (look up PES superchargers if you need anymore info on that lol)
> 
> While i know that no 1/4 mile can be duplicated (just like dynos, different variables) i just thought (again thought it stage 3) that it seemed to be low and asked why. Im no way bashing you or OP. Hell i go to tyrol and they work on my S4. im hoping i get to see this bad boy over there one day.


the 12.25 run was on their old v3.1 file... I personally haven't tried the current version (3.31?)but it does have even more output so big props to APR for the free updates.


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## Deckedr32 (Feb 21, 2005)

Any news on the APR stage 3 DSG file? Anyone have the beta?


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

Deckedr32 said:


> Any news on the APR stage 3 DSG file? Anyone have the beta?


Or it blowing up like the stage 3 RS4 cars?


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## Deckedr32 (Feb 21, 2005)

FastEddie7 said:


> Or it blowing up like the stage 3 RS4 cars?


Thanks, that's really helpful :banghead:


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

Deckedr32 said:


> Thanks, that's really helpful :banghead:


I was asking a question as you did? Im curious how his Stage 3 car is running. Considering the fast that almost EVERY stage 3 car out of APR at the moment has a slew of issues. The most prominent being RS4 Stage 3's are blowing motors. Numerous TTRS stage 3 owners are dissappointed in thier kit. So yeah my question could be quite helpful. I hope his car is running better than ever, with no issues.


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## Deckedr32 (Feb 21, 2005)

FastEddie7 said:


> I was asking a question as you did? Im curious how his Stage 3 car is running. Considering the fast that almost EVERY stage 3 car out of APR at the moment has a slew of issues. The most prominent being RS4 Stage 3's are blowing motors. Numerous TTRS stage 3 owners are dissappointed in thier kit. So yeah my question could be quite helpful. I hope his car is running better than ever, with no issues.


Fair enough. I'm been running an APR stage 3 kit for 18+ months with zero issues. I would use APR again and I've used VF, HPA for FI solutions on my R32. I recently converted my manual gearbox to s-tropic and I'm experiencing a bit of slip so I need a stage 3 dsg file hence my original question. I know quite a few APR 2.0 tfsi stage 3 owners and an APR stage 3 R8 owner and none of them are disappointed. Maybe bad installs?


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

Could be. Not sure if your familiar with Mangrove buying out APR but I know they have shelved quite a few things of late in order for restructuring. My father has the Stage 2+ DSG and Tune from APR on his TTS and says it works great. Hopefully OP can come in here and shed some light. If your really in need of some info Tyrol sport I believe is the shop who worked on his car and Mike is one awesome dude to talk to if you need to try and find out what he may know.

Do you have anymore info on the stage 3 R8's? I know they are running the same type of blower the RS4 is and I only know of one working as of now. The other one (which APR used in its recent Michelin ad) was ironically totaled on the way home from that photoshoot.


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

[HR][/HR]


Deckedr32 said:


> Fair enough. I'm been running an APR stage 3 kit for 18+ months with zero issues. I would use APR again and I've used VF, HPA for FI solutions on my R32. I recently converted my manual gearbox to s-tropic and I'm experiencing a bit of slip so I need a stage 3 dsg file hence my original question. I know quite a few APR 2.0 tfsi stage 3 owners and an APR stage 3 R8 owner and none of them are disappointed. Maybe bad installs?


Here is the first R8 i know of. Im sure there will be more showing up soon like the RS4 guys.

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=2757.msg84626#msg84626


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

The Stage 3 DSG file has not been released to my knowledge... so currently I am missing out on around 40hp/40lb-ft until they do. But if it really is shelved then I will probably go HPA.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

arm1tage said:


> The Stage 3 DSG file has not been released to my knowledge... so currently I am missing out on around 40hp/40lb-ft until they do. But if it really is shelved then I will probably go HPA.


Nothing is shelved. A few internet trolls got butthurt and are trying to create a bunch of drama based on innuendo, rumors and supposition.


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Nothing is shelved. A few internet trolls got butthurt and are trying to create a bunch of drama based on innuendo, rumors and supposition.


The problem Sean is questions are legitimately being asked and NO ONE from APR is responding. So the rumors begin to happen. Are you going to deny that Mangrove Equity has told APR employees NOT to speak about certain things? If that isnt the case i have a bunch of questions i would love to ask. 

Arm1tage how is the car running otherwise? Any issues?


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

FastEddie7 said:


> Arm1tage how is the car running otherwise? Any issues?


Car has been bulletproof. I've put 12K on the Stage 3 and no real issues except for the stock DSG getting slower to shift and limiting torque earlier. A recent DSG service seemed to help but it really needs an upgrade. I have a meth kit but haven't used it since it isn't necessary at 93 octane.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

FastEddie7 said:


> The problem Sean is questions are legitimately being asked and NO ONE from APR is responding. So the rumors begin to happen. Are you going to deny that Mangrove Equity has told APR employees NOT to speak about certain things? If that isnt the case i have a bunch of questions i would love to ask.
> 
> Arm1tage how is the car running otherwise? Any issues?


The problem is that a bunch of people think things are their business that aren't. Then, they interject their opinions, suspicions and whatever else into tons of thread that are 100% unrelated, trying to get attention.

If you have a legitimate question about APR or APR products, call our office and anyone will be glad to speak to you. Posting garbage (mostly untrue and totally unrelated) into someone else's thread, trying to start drama and then demanding answers is not an appropriate approach.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

I have APR and HPA and i'm a pretty big fan of both. And i've seen many APR builds at my shop. They seem to really like installing APR products because they are well sorted out and have good quality control (box has what it should have in it...etc...) But if you have a high power DSG car, you need to find a solution now... It seems many folks who don't use HPA turbo kits use the UM tune... seems to make folks happy... The HPA tune would be fine too i'm sure.. But they still seem to charge a lot more if bought al-la-carte like that. 

I went HPA all around on my TT because I have their clutches and everything else as well. 

Also, i've been through a bunch of M&A's and ALL OF THEM will review the products/profitability/operations/quality etc... Because some products are just crap and should have never been brought to market in the first place. And the aftermarket comment is ripe with junk products that worked in the "shop car" and went out as some sort of real product.... And i'm sorry, but if the product is not in some sort of 2'rd or subsequent version it's going to have room for improvement. Because no aftermarket vendor can spend like Audi or Porsche... And even they (usually) fix their crap when it sucks.

The real way to solve this is to have (speed shops or real dealers) dealers that install Stage III kits with warranties. But that will raise the price a lot. So, the circle of life continues. You just can't have your cake and eat it too... Unless you can afford two cakes! And with a wallet like that, who cares!


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

arm1tage said:


> Car has been bulletproof. I've put 12K on the Stage 3 and no real issues except for the stock DSG getting slower to shift and limiting torque earlier. A recent DSG service seemed to help but it really needs an upgrade. I have a meth kit but haven't used it since it isn't necessary at 93 octane.


Glad to hear it. So far my fathers happy with his stage 2 tune. Was curious how the stage 3 kits were running.


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The problem is that a bunch of people think things are their business that aren't. Then, they interject their opinions, suspicions and whatever else into tons of thread that are 100% unrelated, trying to get attention.
> 
> If you have a legitimate question about APR or APR products, call our office and anyone will be glad to speak to you. Posting garbage (mostly untrue and totally unrelated) into someone else's thread, trying to start drama and then demanding answers is not an appropriate approach.


People have been calling the APR office and getting no where. And BTW i never demanded answers. I stated facts about other problems APR is having and the fact that NO ONE is responding to anything. TBH after the Stasis debacle how could we not want answers to make sure everything isnt going to go south (which IMO i dont believe will happen, Although it is possible). APR has been overly quiet of late. Im sure your familiar with AudiRevolution and Crew posting up stuff im sure no one at your company wants out. BUT as you have kindly asked, ill stop posting in this thread and keep this on topic which is Arm1tage stage 3 kit. 

You will be hearing from me shortly. Apologies arm1tage if you felt i have hijacked your thread.


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## Ries (Sep 18, 2014)

Stage 3 kit is pretty nice 

Unfortunately I wont be able to bring it to a track until summer. Here in MN I'm sitting on 10+" of the white stuff.


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Ries said:


> Stage 3 kit is pretty nice
> 
> Unfortunately I wont be able to bring it to a track until summer. Here in MN I'm sitting on 10+" of the white stuff.


Bummer


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Ries said:


> Stage 3 kit is pretty nice
> 
> Unfortunately I wont be able to bring it to a track until summer. Here in MN I'm sitting on 10+" of the white stuff.


It's gonna be a long winter! Hope you'll get to enjoy the Stage 3 quattro in the snow. 

Any plans for LPFP?


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## Ries (Sep 18, 2014)

Yup, this car is my DD. It's already seen the 10+" we picked up a while back.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

arm1tage said:


> Any plans for LPFP?


There's nowhere to mount it on the TTS that it won't either get smashed by something or hang down. Otherwise, that car would certainly have had one.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> There's nowhere to mount it on the TTS that it won't either get smashed by something or hang down. Otherwise, that car would certainly have had one.


Saw it listed on the APR website. Mistake?

Any info on the low-torque files for stock DSG? Very interested in running the low-tq 100 octane file until the Stage3 DSG is available.


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## iBoostu (Apr 4, 2015)

Since it's 2015, are there any improved 1/4 mile times with your APR Stage 3 GTX2867R kit on this car? Also, [email protected], which university did you graduate from that gave you an accredited degree in "[Software Engineering]?" It sounds like a useful degree to have in the car tuning world .


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Just got flashed with HPA's Stage 3 DSG file. Much improved in D mode and faster shifts (but not lightning fast like the new PDKs). the stock DSG clutches are still slipping but not as much. I am running the 100 octane file which should be good for 470hp. Don't have time to run it at the track but will try to borrow a pbox for some numbers.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

I don't remember what stock is like, but HPA's software's shifts really have to do with your throttle position and what D/S/M mode. I have Stage IV with clutches, so maybe mine is different. So in other words, i you are driving hard, it shifts fast.. if not, sort of regular. Also, your actual tune can make things much different as well In D mine takes is pretty easy unless you stomp on it. In M or S it's a freaking beast...


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

sentari said:


> I don't remember what stock is like, but HPA's software's shifts really have to do with your throttle position and what D/S/M mode. I have Stage IV with clutches, so maybe mine is different. So in other words, i you are driving hard, it shifts fast.. if not, sort of regular. Also, your actual tune can make things much different as well In D mine takes is pretty easy unless you stomp on it. In M or S it's a freaking beast...


^this
Steve


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

yes I noticed that in D mode. But I meant compared to the newest DSG/PDK it is a little slow. In S mode it shifts pretty quick but sometimes will bounce off the rev limited. Strange since my APR is set for 7100 redline and HPA is 7150.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

*Porsche brake ducts*

So after reading about the $30 Porsche GT3 brake ducts here I had to give them a shot. 









They sat in the garage for probably 3 years before I got around to installing them. Took me 2 hours going slowly to see what needed to be cut (a lot). Check out the pics, pretty self-explanatory. They do hang low so hopefully they work!


Yes that is duct tape for my ducts.

















On the ground they are about 2 inches lower than the rest of the undertray.









And finally a shot with the updated grill.









More updates will be coming soon, including more POWAH!


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Had Custom Cars NJ from Nutley, NJ come out to do both my Audis, painted the Cayenne calipers titanium grey with silver rotor hats, and plastidipped the Forgestars Anthracite Metallic with gloss. The pictures speak for themselves. It's like a brand new car. Top notch guys and great attention to detail. http://customcarsnj.wix.com

Will post pics of the Q5 tomorrow. Looks so mean like a SQ5 competition would look!



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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

More cell phone pics, will take better ones next week but wanna share the new looks!


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## AUS_TTS (Jan 15, 2014)

arm1tage said:


> yes I noticed that in D mode. But I meant compared to the newest DSG/PDK it is a little slow. In S mode it shifts pretty quick but sometimes will bounce off the rev limited. Strange since my APR is set for 7100 redline and HPA is 7150.


You need a bigger gap between those two RPM's and they are the other way around. Ecu should have higher limit than the DSG. In the lower gears the engine is pulling rpm quicker than the DSG can change. I'm only at stage 2+ but my APR dealer recommended a 6800 dsg limit wih a 7100rpm ecu limit to cover off the problem you are describing. You aren't really losing anything as it will over rev past the 6800 anyway and you will land back in a high torque/hp area in the next gear.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

AUS_TTS said:


> You need a bigger gap between those two RPM's and they are the other way around. Ecu should have higher limit than the DSG. In the lower gears the engine is pulling rpm quicker than the DSG can change. I'm only at stage 2+ but my APR dealer recommended a 6800 dsg limit wih a 7100rpm ecu limit to cover off the problem you are describing. You aren't really losing anything as it will over rev past the 6800 anyway and you will land back in a high torque/hp area in the next gear.


Good advice, this is the same conclusion HPA came to as well. I definitely feel the engine revs faster than DSG can change. HPA has prepared another map for me so fingers crossed it will work fine.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

RSW installed the APR LPFP and Integrated Engineering intake manifold. Highly recommended mods, especially the IM. The car has much stronger top end and the turbo comes on less abruptly. I think it's spooling earlier too so overall the car is more drivable. More to come soon!


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