# Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!!



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

Well, just over a week of waiting (I am in Canada, we are slow...) I have my SMIC from Tyrol Sport!!!








Will be installed ASAP and will tell you all what I think. This is just the first step on the way to an APR STGIII+!!
I love summer!!!
Dave


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*

LOGS LOGS LOGS

Before and after please!!!


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## BUCKHUSKY (Apr 8, 2004)

I see the Gazinta but weres the Gazouta ?


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## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (buck16valve)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buck16valve* »_I see the Gazinta but weres the Gazouta ?

It's in the rear...just like the stock one.


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## [email protected] (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZinK* »_
This is just the first step on the way to an APR STGIII+!!

Dave 






















why no FMIC?


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_





















why no FMIC?

it may not be needed. this thing arguably did better than an evo fmic .....


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## Illegal Gardener (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_





















why no FMIC?
here we go again...... roflcopter








this little puppy is pretty impressive. search for his last posts about the tests... i'm sure someone less lazy than me will post a link.... but it holds its own.
allowing more fresh air to hit the radiator is a good thing for coolant temps and timing. 
from what i got from the other thread about this is:
1. perfect for sleepers
2. better coolant temps
3. cools charge comparably if not better than some fmic's on the market
4. less chance of it being ruined in a bad driveway scrape or small front end fender bender.
5. minimal pressure drop.
i'd hit it


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (Illegal Gardener)*

word, i'd hit it too


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## 1decimal8Tango (Jul 7, 2004)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (screwball)*

It fits to factory IC pipes too, correct? that would also be another plus. I'll definetly be getting this to remain in sleeper status.


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i want one too.. just trying to get over that $750 price.


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## Illegal Gardener (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (1decimal8Tango)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1decimal8Tango* »_It fits to factory IC pipes too, correct? that would also be another plus. I'll definetly be getting this to remain in sleeper status. 
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif stock mounting points and charge piping... nothing changes except intake air temp.
only thing i'd really like to see at this point is him do the testing with a 350+ whp ride and see how it stands up to the big greddy - but with all the trouble he went through testing the setup he already did, i could understand why he'd be reluctant to spend the time and money to try both setups on a real big power turbo.
they did on the same day a dyno run on the same car with fmic and this sidemount. on another day they did the same thing with big highway pulls... with tons of logs. thats a big PITA... but he did it and proved his point already for the power level he tested it at. (what was it, a 28rs or 28r or something? i remember it being around the 275-300whp range, and doing very well against an undisclosed front mount kit)
anyway, looks nice, enjoi it








mike's a good guy, props for takin the plunge and doing the work to offer this to the masses


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## REFisher (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (Illegal Gardener)*

How about some before and after Logs.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What I ment to say is get your D-m Vag-Com out and use it.


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## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*

i really like hte looks of this unit. i am sure it will perform.


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*

You will need IC sprayer in the summer with Stg3+.


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## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (wolfsburg2)*

Logs will be done doodes. I too am interested.
Please tell me which blocks would be the best to test?
Thanks
Dave


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZinK* »_ Please tell me which blocks would be the best to test?
Thanks
Dave

block 011, 020, and 115


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (heysuperman)*

and don't forget...
_Quote, originally posted by *QuickK03Crap* »_
you'll need to log them on the same day for them to even be close to valid. 

but if you test the stock one at noon and test the upgrade at night your numbers will be most impressive


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

this is the tyrol sport one, isnt there an APR SMIC and a Forge one too? Which is the best SMIC?


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

stay AWAY from the Forge SMIC. on this forum, it is generally accepted to be a piece of trash (and this is my opinion backed by data logs as well).
apr does not sell an uprated smic.
a vortexer named KOOTER supposedly makes and sells one privately. it is supposed to work quite well also


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (Raman Gain)*

Congrats on the smic. I have had mine for a few months now and lovin it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Bastard (Jul 3, 2003)

Mike from unitronic was running the forge. Thing was completly worthless. No better than stock,


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## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (Bastard)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bastard* »_Mike from unitronic was running the forge. Thing was completly worthless. No better than stock,

Whats the differene between the forge and Tyrol?


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## zaberayx (Oct 31, 2004)

they both look the same.


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## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (zaberayx)*

forge is a decently smaller (not as thick), and this core is bar and plate, more efficient design.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (Illegal Gardener)*

stock piping = great
no "front mount" visible = great
documented performance = great
the price three weeks ago was still at the introductory level of $699
my understanding was that they wanted to do a eurojet/greddy/UGsmic head to head but couldn't source donor intercoolers to perform the testing.


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## tim18t (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (screwball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *screwball* »_stock piping = great
no "front mount" visible = great
documented performance = great
the price three weeks ago was still at the introductory level of $699
my understanding was that they wanted to do a eurojet/greddy/UGsmic head to head but couldn't source donor intercoolers to perform the testing.


could easily purchase said intercoolers for the purposes of testing. sell afterwards,or keep depending on the data gained


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## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (tim18t)*

lmao, yea sell them at a loss....








_Quote, originally posted by *tim18t* »_

could easily purchase said intercoolers for the purposes of testing. sell afterwards,or keep depending on the data gained


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (tim18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim18t* »_
could easily purchase said intercoolers for the purposes of testing. sell afterwards,or keep depending on the data gained

We're going to buy a Greddy as soon as one comes up on the used market. What's going to end up happening is that people will want us to test every intercooler on the market vs. the SMIC, under every temperature and airflow condition to man, and then tell us that they're going to buy an FMIC anyways because it looks cooler.














Oh well......we'll keep up the fight as best we can


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## machx0r (Feb 25, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (tyrolkid)*

I also received my Tyrolsport UG SMIC sometime mid week. Just got back from homedepot for some hacksaw blades and plan to start the install after I finish this beer










_Modified by machx0r at 8:25 AM 5-7-2005_


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (machx0r)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machx0r* »_I also received my Tyrolsport UG SMIC sometime mid week. Just got back from homedepot for some hacksaw blades and plan to start the install after I finish this beer










hacksaw blades? for the install?


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## machx0r (Feb 25, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (heysuperman)*

Yup, minor trimming of the the plastic/fiber radiator support is required. All detailed in the very thorough installation instructions http://www.tyrolsport.com/Inst...n.pdf.


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## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

wow... $750


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## [email protected] (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (Illegal Gardener)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Illegal Gardener* »_here we go again...... roflcopter








this little puppy is pretty impressive. search for his last posts about the tests... i'm sure someone less lazy than me will post a link.... but it holds its own.
allowing more fresh air to hit the radiator is a good thing for coolant temps and timing. 
from what i got from the other thread about this is:
1. perfect for sleepers
2. better coolant temps
3. cools charge comparably if not better than some fmic's on the market
4. less chance of it being ruined in a bad driveway scrape or small front end fender bender.
5. minimal pressure drop.
i'd hit it








water to air.......


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (machx0r)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machx0r* »_Yup, minor trimming of the the plastic/fiber radiator support is required. All detailed in the very thorough installation instructions http://www.tyrolsport.com/Inst...n.pdf.

i cheated...i used a dremmel when i did my custom smic http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

x2


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## machx0r (Feb 25, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_
i cheated...i used a dremmel when i did my custom smic http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Ya I've been using that also for the tight spots but I'm no good with it, especially on plastic. The bracket is soft enough that a 18 tooth hacksaw blade cuts through it like butter. Got the SMIC installed, time to put the bumper cover back on and take her for a spin


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (machx0r)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machx0r* »_
Ya I've been using that also for the tight spots but I'm no good with it, especially on plastic. The bracket is soft enough that a 18 tooth hacksaw blade cuts through it like butter. Got the SMIC installed, time to put the bumper cover back on and take her for a spin









awwww, no logs for us?


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## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (heysuperman)*

Dammit... My laptop is calving on me. The battery lasts about 4 min on a charge








I will have to get something to plug into the cig lighter i guess.
Hope to log/install tomorow, but we will see what the weather says about that.
Thanks for the log blocks. Is it ok to log them all at the same time or should i do them one by one for resolution on the graphs??
Dave


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZinK* »_Dammit... My laptop is calving on me. The battery lasts about 4 min on a charge








I will have to get something to plug into the cig lighter i guess.
Hope to log/install tomorow, but we will see what the weather says about that.
Thanks for the log blocks. Is it ok to log them all at the same time or should i do them one by one for resolution on the graphs??
Dave 

log those 3 blocks at the same time. and try to do the tests as close as possible between swaps. perhaps something like late morning and late afternoon/early evening


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## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (heysuperman)*

looks as though weather, work and travel will postpone the SMIC for a bit.
Will log and post as soon as I get it installed.
Dave


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## '02 Turbo S (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*

Any chance you will make a SMIC that will fit on a Beetle.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (Don R)*

Ordered mine! $719 shipped.


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## obvious510 (Apr 14, 2003)

*Re: (Don R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Don R* »_







x2









$1400 + just to retain sleeper look? I wish I had that kind of dough. Damn tuition hikes.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (obvious510)*

For me, it's not the sleeper aspect that's attractive. I like the idea of not having to cut up the bumper and potentially reduce it's effectiveness in a crash (not that it'll make a big difference). Plus, in spite of what everyone claims, I have no found a complete FMIC for that price.


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## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

just had to bump a hot product


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## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_For me, it's not the sleeper aspect that's attractive. I like the idea of not having to cut up the bumper and potentially reduce it's effectiveness in a crash (not that it'll make a big difference). Plus, in spite of what everyone claims, I have no found a complete FMIC for that price.

Werd. The sleeper potential is exactly why I've been looking at TyrolSports SMIC. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (inivid1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *inivid1.8t* »_Werd. The sleeper potential is exactly why I've been looking at TyrolSports SMIC. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

That is exactly why i bought mine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## njwolfturbo (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for that SMIC.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (njwolfturbo)*

Still hoping for logs.


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## wrh3 (Mar 18, 2004)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

I want be able to log any data but plan on installing mine this week......it's almost sad that it is stealth and you can't see it because it looks GREAT








But the stealth factor is what attracted me..........


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## 27psiBoom (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZinK* »_Dammit... My laptop is calving on me. The battery lasts about 4 min on a charge









I was in the same boat, now I got this!!!







best buy ever


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## Illegal Gardener (Oct 8, 2004)

be careful with those when using computer equipment.... as it doesnt produce true 120VAC. when you look at the output of the transformer on an oscilloscope, you'll see that you're not looking at true sine waves, but rather some blocky 'on/ off' looking curves not dissimilar to that of memory pulses, for example.
although i haven't actually seen it myself, i have heard of fried batteries / power supplies / mobos from inverted dirty power. as long as you have a good switching power supply in the lappy, i'm guessing you should be ok... but just something i thought you should be mindful of, nonetheless


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## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (Illegal Gardener)*

how about a group buy or a price reduction so i can buy one







... seriously

Pa pa PLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAASSSSEEEEEEEEE


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## slugII (Apr 5, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! ('02 Turbo S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *’02 Turbo S* »_Any chance you will make a SMIC that will fit on a Beetle.

I e-mailed tyrolsport and they said that if we could get ten beetle owners together they would produce a run of them.
You and me = 2.
I also have a post in the NB forum looking for interest. 
So yeah get ten beetl owner's together who can make a financial commitment and we can get them.


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## RonN (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_i want one too.. just trying to get over that $750 price.

When summer almost feels like winter the $750 won't seem like that much http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## eurotuner 06 (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_LOGS LOGS LOGS

Before and after please!!! 

yea... im curious myself about these side mounts... there sorta starting to grow on me...


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

damn i really want one someday.. if i sell some of my stock for 3-4k, ill prob end up ordering one.


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## VDUBRACER187 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (Don R)*

from what iv heard, the tyrolsport smic seems to be very good


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## hypnos (Aug 21, 2003)

what about this vs. dual SMIC kits like the EuroSpec Sport?


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## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (hypnos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypnos* »_what about this vs. dual SMIC kits like the EuroSpec Sport?

yeah a comparison would be nice...


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoBeRt_68* »_
yeah a comparison would be nice...









Dudes, it's too much a PITA to do before and afters, especially when you get it in the mail. You don't want to wait around doing before and after logs (at least I don't).

I put mine in tonight and I can say that it makes a big difference once you start running it a bit. There's about a 2 psi drop, which is ok when you're peaking at 21 psi. Running at 17 psi feels much stronger than at 21 psi on the stock SMIC.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Can you really feel a difference?


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_
Dudes, it's too much a PITA to do before and afters, especially when you get it in the mail. You don't want to wait around doing before and after logs (at least I don't).

I put mine in tonight and I can say that it makes a big difference once you start running it a bit. There's about a 2 psi drop, which is ok when you're peaking at 21 psi. Running at 17 psi feels much stronger than at 21 psi on the stock SMIC.

2 psi seems like a lot. mine custom smic uses a larger core than the tyrolsport and i didn't notice any pressure drop


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_
2 psi seems like a lot. mine custom smic uses a larger core than the tyrolsport and i didn't notice any pressure drop

I'll check it again today. I really don't care that much because the car feels much stronger, but that was for a very short run. My commute is about 55 miles, so I'm sure I'll have more to report later.


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## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_
Whats the differene between the forge and Tyrol?

The Forge one uses a core designed for heavy equipment (big surprise there) and the heat transfer efficiency is worse than stock.


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_I put mine in tonight and I can say that it makes a big difference once you start running it a bit. 

Thats where I noticed the most difference as well, when I was running it hard for a bit. 
Last weekend, I was at a local strip with some friends. I realized that after running the car for a few hours, it felt exactly the same. It pulled just as hard and felt just as strong all night long. There was absolutey no heat soak what so ever http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I dont think I lost any psi either. I was on APR's 100octane program and I was boosting 17-19psi & spiking aroung 21-22 all night long.


_Modified by 1.8TIM at 10:07 AM 5-18-2005_


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

Oh yeah... I know that most of you will say that larger intercoolers don't add any noticeable horsepower and all that stuff. So, I guess the only other explanation I have is that my motor must have finally broken in or something...because I have been chipped way before I got the Tyrolsport intercooler...but my car has NEVER felt this strong before. ever. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I love this intercooler.


_Modified by 1.8TIM at 10:10 AM 5-18-2005_


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_Oh yeah... I know that most of you will say that larger intercoolers don't add any noticeable horsepower and all that stuff. So, I guess the only other explanation I have is that my motor must have finally broken in or something...because I have been chipped way before I got the Tyrolsport intercooler...but my car has NEVER felt this strong before. ever. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I love this intercooler.

And don't forget, it has been shown that the stock SMIC heat soaks almost immediately.


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_And don't forget, it has been shown that the stock SMIC heat soaks almost immediately.

So, those itty bitty tiny ones on the GLI's & the 20th's must be even worse than the other 1.8t intercoolers


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_So, those itty bitty tiny ones on the GLI's & the 20th's must be even worse than the other 1.8t intercoolers









Oh yeah... I chipped my wife's GLI and it heat soaks real quick! Why in the hell would VW do such a thing?


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (ruso)*

UPDATE: I'm still peaking at 21 psi; my runs last night were not really indicative of normal driving. So any initial pressure drops were purely imaginative.
I don't think I'm going to see major hp gains, I just don't lose hp after some strong runs. There does feel to be some gain, especially on the highway, and the engine remains very strong. Though I haven't had the car to triple digits, I expect that when I do it will continue to accelerate freely.


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
Oh yeah... I chipped my wife's GLI and it heat soaks real quick! Why in the hell would VW do such a thing?

Im not sure...but if I had to take a guess, I would say, it put some extra money in their pockets.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

So would you say it feels like one of those cool early mornings when it feels strong as hell?


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_So would you say it feels like one of those cool early mornings when it feels strong as hell?

Honestly...i would say even a bit more than that. You definitely feel a big difference. 
To someone who doesn't really know their car, or pay attention to certain things, they probably wouldn't notice a difference between how their car runs in different weather. but they would defintely feel this kind of difference. Even my girlfriend noticed it! and she could care less about cars.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_So would you say it feels like one of those cool early mornings when it feels strong as hell?

Yep!


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

post some logs red. just tell us the outside temp and humidity http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (heysuperman)*

I'm just still not convinced that it doesn't make a difference if the OEM ducting is retained or not. Did VW do their homework then designing the front bumper on these cars or what?


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_I'm just still not convinced that it doesn't make a difference if the OEM ducting is retained or not. Did VW do their homework then designing the front bumper on these cars or what?

I left mine off. Tyrolkid said he tested with it on and off and it made no difference...So I said F' it.
VW probably just made it so you would have one more part to buy separately and give them more of your money.


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_
I left mine off. Tyrolkid said he tested with it on and off and it made no difference...So I said F' it.
VW probably just made it so you would have one more part to buy separately and give them more of your money.










i did logs for both and didn't notice a huge difference


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_VW probably just made it so you would have one more part to buy separately and give them more of your money.









Wouldn't suprise me, however, I'm wondering if there is a slight bottleneck between the lower intake vent and the SMIC, even from the factory. I'd like to see logs with a large opening front bumper like the Reiger RX-X.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_I'm just still not convinced that it doesn't make a difference if the OEM ducting is retained or not. Did VW do their homework then designing the front bumper on these cars or what?

Considering that the OEM duct fits to the size of the OEM IC, I would think putting it back on would actually reduce the effectiveness of the UG SMIC (as TyrolSport calls it).
One thing I noticed is that the bottom of the UG SMIC is right at the lower lip of the bumper spoiler. So, be careful parking where there is a curb, etc. If you scrape the bumper, you probably scraped the IC. I'm sure FMICs have the same problem.


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_UPDATE: I'm still peaking at 21 psi; my runs last night were not really indicative of normal driving. So any initial pressure drops were purely imaginative.
I don't think I'm going to see major hp gains, I just don't lose hp after some strong runs. There does feel to be some gain, especially on the highway, and the engine remains very strong. Though I haven't had the car to triple digits, I expect that when I do it will continue to accelerate freely.

You still running the aquamist?


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_One thing I noticed is that the bottom of the UG SMIC is right at the lower lip of the bumper spoiler. So, be careful parking where there is a curb, etc. If you scrape the bumper, you probably scraped the IC. I'm sure FMICs have the same problem.

All intercoolers have that problem, especially the front mounts since they sit so much farther up in front of the car. they will hit anything before the front tires go over it causing the front end to raise. If your not super dumped on the ground, then you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_
You still running the aquamist? 

Yes, and it actually seems to work better now. Since the air temp is lower, less timing is pulled by the ECU. My Aquamist set up is after all temp sensors, so its real benefit was to cool head and combustion chamber. Now with lower temps being measured, it seems the ecu is putting timing back in and with no knocking (because of the Aquamist), the car is running stronger. It's a nice combo.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

What kind of numbers are you putting down with your setup sans UG SMIC?


----------



## 27psiBoom (Jun 13, 2003)

_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_Even my girlfriend noticed it! and she could care less about cars. 

they will always say it's faster, no matter what, just to make you feel good.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (27psiBoom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *27psiBoom* »_they will always say it's faster, no matter what, just to make you feel good.









It's kinda like _that commercial_...
Guy: "Honey, does this intercooler make my car faster?"
Girl: "You betcha!"


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*

hahaha....actually, with my girl, whenever i say something, she says "I dunno, what the hell you asking me for". Or, when we're riding in someone else's car and she hears a squeak or a rattle, She'll try and be funny by imitating me and pushing her hand on the dashboard, center console, doorpanels and say "Whats that noise? Did you hear that? Where is that rattle coming from?"








but, actually, the other night when she said that, I didnt even say anything. I was messing around with an M3 on the road and she was just like "Damn, your car feels faster than normal".


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i bit the bullet... just sent in my money.. i wanted one so bad i had to.
and if anyone gives me a how-to on how to take logs.. and what ones to take.. then i can.. i have vagcom.


_Modified by placenta at 10:28 PM 5-18-2005_


----------



## omllenado (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*

logs man after you before & after you installed it.


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_i bit the bullet... just sent in my money.. i wanted one so bad i had to.


LOL. Been there.


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_i bit the bullet... just sent in my money.. i wanted one so bad i had to.
and if anyone gives me a how-to on how to take logs.. and what ones to take.. then i can.. i have vagcom.

_Modified by placenta at 10:28 PM 5-18-2005_

Nice. I've noticed that most the people that are buying these are from Cali.


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_i bit the bullet... just sent in my money.. i wanted one so bad i had to.


i wanted one, but couldn't afford it so i had one made


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (heysuperman)*

damn...that one looks a bit too thick dont you think? does it get good airflow?


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

damn, that ones crazy dood.. you'll prob need a lot of trimming.

i would take logs.. if i knew how.. but my #1 priority is getting it installed.. lots of people have done logs already, the data is there.


----------



## omllenado (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

I wanted one too coz you know how it is down here in the Republic of Cali, it's like a different planet with weird requirements.


----------



## caostht (Feb 28, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*

I made one myself a lot like that one, and all i can say is wow!. My turbo spools faster than with the stock IC and stays allways strong. The stock IC used to heat-soack pretty fast. Used a bell core 6 x 8 x 8.5


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_i bit the bullet... just sent in my money.. i wanted one so bad i had to.
and if anyone gives me a how-to on how to take logs.. and what ones to take.. then i can.. i have vagcom.

_Modified by placenta at 10:28 PM 5-18-2005_

Vagging is pretty easy doode. I am still working away form home so I still have not had a chance to install mine yet





















!!

What you do is hook you Vag up to the car and get it set up into the engine block (01). Then go to measurements and input the 3 blocks that were posted on page 1 (i am a tool and forget them...).
Now the fun. You roll on dubs with a buddy and bag your car








Try to find a nice flat road with very little traffic or a closed course. Try to do the same thing every time!!! That is key. Also tell us the temp and humidity.
I (6-speed) usually use 3rd gear to do logs, and I did the same with my VR6 (although 3rd in the VR6 gets you to illegal speeds EVERYWHERE...). I start out and get rolling to about 10KPH, but under 20KPH, and grab 3rd (bogs a little







) and punch it!! Right before you punch it, have your friend press the button to record the log (might have to set up the file name and save location, someone here can correct me but I do not have my VAG here...) and once you hit red-line (i log to ~6700 RPM) then you back off and your buddy stops the logging process.
Turn around, go to where you started (drive it back there hard to keep the heat up) and repeat, saving all the logs as different files. For IC testing I would say do quick back to back logs at least 4 times trying to recreate the process as exactly as possible. If the road is REALLY flat and smooth then you do not have to go back to the starting point which would be ideal (I live in the prairies, we can do this







)
Now go change your IC, and then go back to the same road and repeat the entire ordeal. It is a PITA and will take some time but it is worth it. I like looking at logs and seeing improvements, makes the money spent seem more worth while.
Now once you have all the data, off to excel we go to graph it. You will want to plot all the pertinent values vs RPM. Being you will have 8 log files (4 stock and 4 Tyrol) you will generate a lot of graphs. Most important is timing and intake temp vs RPM.
If you have any problems graphing, just send me a line and I will help you out.
Good luck and I hope you like the Tyrol!!
Dave


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_damn...that one looks a bit too thick dont you think? does it get good airflow?

works just fine for me. did a comparo with my stocker and did about 10 C better and that was without the shroud. with the shroud it was over 10 and stayed a lot cooler throughout the range.
and besides, it only cost me $450 to have made


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_damn, that ones crazy dood.. you'll prob need a lot of trimming.


actually i didn't have to do anymore trimming than you guys. just a wee bit off of where the headlight sits. had to trim the shroud and i was done.


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

nice


----------



## craigalangibson (Dec 27, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_i want one too.. just trying to get over that $750 price.

The thing is *HUGE*- it's worth the price!


----------



## wrh3 (Mar 18, 2004)

*Re: (craigalangibson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *craigalangibson* »_
The thing is *HUGE*- it's worth the price!

Definitely, see my write up here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2000086 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (wrh3)*

I drilled rows of 3/4" holes in my wheel well liner behind the IC and had noticeable improvement. These ICs definitely need some airflow.


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_I drilled rows of 3/4" holes in my wheel well liner behind the IC and had noticeable improvement. These ICs definitely need some airflow.

i did the TT fender liner mod awhile back...i didn't notice anything


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (wrh3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wrh3* »_Definitely, see my write up here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2000086 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

killer write up dude. cant wait till mine ships..


----------



## craigalangibson (Dec 27, 2003)

*Re: (wrh3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wrh3* »_
Definitely, see my write up here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2000086 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Kick ass write up! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ghettlo (May 20, 2001)

*Re: (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_
works just fine for me. did a comparo with my stocker and did about 10 C better and that was without the shroud. with the shroud it was over 10 and stayed a lot cooler throughout the range.
and besides, it only cost me $450 to have made









So why is the Tyrolsport IC so expensive?


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (ghettlo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ghettlo* »_
So why is the Tyrolsport IC so expensive?

probabaly development and testing cost, + they have to make a profit.


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_probabaly development and testing cost, + they have to make a profit.

not a good reason why its so expensive...


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoBeRt_68* »_
not a good reason why its so expensive...









So, what is a good reason?
Regular companies mark there products up 100% to 200% or more over their costs. That's how they pay their bills and stay in business.
How much do you think the fountain drink you buy at a restaurant really costs the restaurant? Probably less than 5 cents a glass!



_Modified by JettaRed at 5:12 AM 5-26-2005_


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_So, what is a good reason?
Regular companies mark there products up 100% to 200% or more over their costs. That's how they pay their bills and stay in business.
How much do you think the fountain drink you buy at a restaurant really costs the restaurant? Probably less than 5 cents a glass!
_Modified by JettaRed at 5:12 AM 5-26-2005_

true but i belive if they sold it cheaper they would get alot more people to buy it... i know i would.
Most people only get front mounts cause of the bling effect but if its gonna be 100 more, id get it.


----------



## Swampyankee (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoBeRt_68* »_
true but i belive if they sold it cheaper they would get alot more people to buy it... i know i would.
Most people only get front mounts cause of the bling effect but if its gonna be 100 more, id get it.

Some people could give a rat's a$$ about the bling factor. And the people that do are gonna complain about this product. Which one are you? One who cares about real performance or looking like it performs?


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoBeRt_68* »_
true but i belive if they sold it cheaper they would get alot more people to buy it... i know i would.
Most people only get front mounts cause of the bling effect but if its gonna be 100 more, id get it.

Tell me where you are going to get a complete front mount for $800? That's a complete kit with nothing else to buy. (Add $20 for shipping.)


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_
Tell me where you are going to get a complete front mount for $800? That's a complete kit with nothing else to buy. (Add $20 for shipping.)

The smaller Greddy unit is $735 I think. Eurojet is something like $850.


----------



## online (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (ZinK)*

I have the RS4 style bumper on my Jetta. My question is how far down does this hang from the bottom of the radiator support?
My bumper is level with the bottom of the radiator support and it looks as though this SMIC would drop below that.


----------



## wrh3 (Mar 18, 2004)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (online)*


_Quote, originally posted by *online* »_I have the RS4 style bumper on my Jetta. My question is how far down does this hang from the bottom of the radiator support?
My bumper is level with the bottom of the radiator support and it looks as though this SMIC would drop below that.

It is below the skid plate I installed so I imagine it would be lower than the radiator support......I'll check when I get home tonight.


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: Tyrol Sport SMIC Upgrade HERE!!!! (wrh3)*

If you have an extremely lowered car and you think you might have a clearance problem with your intercooler...you can make a little bushing/spacer by taping together a few washers using electrical tape and putting it between where the bracket on the intercooler bolts to the car. This will raise it quite a bit. 
My car is extremeley low. I didnt want to risk hitting the end tank of the intercooler, so one of the employees at Tyrolsport taped together 3 thick washers, put it in place, and it raised my intercooler close to an entire inch. Unless you are really really really slammed, you shouldnt have any problems http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
The smaller Greddy unit is $735 I think. Eurojet is something like $850.

Any links? I'd really like to see what $735 or $850 will get me.


----------



## blkmgc20 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_
Any links? I'd really like to see what $735 or $850 will get me.

Here is a few greddy kits at nice prices, cheapest is $723. A couple of them advertise free shipping but I don't know the details.
http://www.racingworks.com/greddy_intercooler.htm
http://www.morepowerracing.com...=2320
http://jdmautogames.com/index_1646_3254.html
http://www.city-speed.com/webs....html


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (blkmgc20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blkmgc20* »_
Here is a few greddy kits at nice prices, cheapest is $723. A couple of them advertise free shipping but I don't know the details.
http://www.racingworks.com/greddy_intercooler.htm
http://www.morepowerracing.com...=2320
http://jdmautogames.com/index_1646_3254.html
http://www.city-speed.com/webs....html










Thanks. That;s very interesting. I just wonder what kind of bumper mods are needed. The nice thing about the TyrolSport is that it's virtually plug-n-play; no changing out piping and only minor triming with a hacksaw.


----------



## blkmgc20 (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

Yes, the tyrolsport is a nice piece. I would have totally gotten it if I didn't think I would eventually upgrade my turbo. I like the stealth factor. I know that the ug smic is good for a gt28r turbo but it is questionable if it will withstand heatsoak on a gt28rs or bigger.
I've heard of a greddy type 31 (small core) show no signs of heatsoak on 5 back to back dyno runs with a gt2871r. That pretty much sold me.
There is more fabricating in order to install a greddy fmic than a tyrolsport smic but it doesn't bother me as long as I don't have to cut up the rebar (upside down installation).
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (blkmgc20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blkmgc20* »_I know that the ug smic is good for a gt28r turbo but it is questionable if it will withstand heatsoak on a gt28rs or bigger.

My gt28rs is on it's way here...and I bought the Tyrolsport SMIC because I like the stealth AND because I knew I was going with that turbo. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
That thing is just as big as a front mount, so Im not worried about any heat soak.


----------



## Hetzen (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

I got a Greddy Type-31 and there is lots of trimming. A lot of the lip is gone.


----------



## Tacoma750 (Sep 16, 2004)

Maybe i missed it..What is the overall HP gain? Or is it just an overall harder pull? I really like it, but its hard to part with $730.


----------



## machx0r (Feb 25, 2001)

*Re: (Tacoma750)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tacoma750* »_Maybe i missed it..What is the overall HP gain? Or is it just an overall harder pull? I really like it, but its hard to part with $730.

Intercoolers don't add HP. They prevent it from being lost to heat soak.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

Whats the ETA on the new batch off the line. I'm trying to stay patient. Paid up quite a while ago.


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*

I didn't realize there was a waiting list for these... what's the production looking like?


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

We were caught offguard by the demand for the UG SMIC. All backorders will be filled by early next week, and all new orders will be processed by late next week. Order with confidence








And BTW- I guess no one ever got the double entendre of "UG SMIC". Everyone says "You Gee SMIC". You can also say "UGE" as we do here in New Yawk......



_Modified by tyrolkid at 8:34 AM 6-2-2005_


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

new yawk.. haahahah...
bump bump


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_We were caught offguard by the demand for the UG SMIC. All backorders will be filled by early next week, and all new orders will be processed by late next week. Order with confidence








_Modified by tyrolkid at 8:34 AM 6-2-2005_
Bump for a Good guy that loves what he is doing and honest shop http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







Bob.G


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

mine shipped a few days ago, ill see it late next week. just in time to install it next weekend, Thanks!


----------



## DuTTCH (May 6, 2004)

*Any installed on a 180 TT yet?*

Any 180 Audi TT owners installed this ? Does it clear the underspoiler ?


----------



## 1.8jettaturbo (Sep 20, 2003)

Id buy it if it were more like 400 bucks. 720 buck is laughable for a smic


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (1.8jettaturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8jettaturbo* »_Id buy it if it were more like 400 bucks. 720 buck is laughable for a smic

If it was $400, everyone would buy it. Keep on laughing, while the people that want a nice product will keep buying it.


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (1.8jettaturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8jettaturbo* »_Id buy it if it were more like 400 bucks. 720 buck is laughable for a smic

What a remarkably non-sensical statement. What possible bearing on price dos the location of the intercooler make?


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_What a remarkably non-sensical statement. What possible bearing on price dos the location of the intercooler make?

Lack of material, lack of piping?


----------



## hypnos (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_What a remarkably non-sensical statement. What possible bearing on price dos the location of the intercooler make?

I imagine an intercooler in outer space would cost a lot more than one on earth..and one in near earth orbit would cost somewhere in the middle


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_
Lack of material, lack of piping?

Sounds like an advantage to me.


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_Sounds like an advantage to me.

It is, but I'm talking about price wise.


----------



## Swampyankee (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_
It is, but I'm talking about price wise.

You can always get better piping than the stuff provided by the other manufacturers. 
YOu can't argue with the data though.


----------



## Dubhaus Tuning (Apr 11, 2002)

*Re: (GT-ER)*

I've been doing quite a bit of research and it looks like Tyrol will be getting my business. First I have to take care of a few outstanding bills and I'm all over it...hopefully before Waterfest.


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (Dubhaus Tuning)*

Ordered today. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

Service, Quality and Price.
Pick two.
There is not a single shop out there that offers all three.
If you have great service and outstanding quality, most likely you wont have a great price.
If you have great service and great prices, you aren't going to get outstanding quality.
If you have great prices and outstanding quality, the service is going to be ****ty.
That's just how it works.


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*

Just to let you guys know...Its been hot and muggy here lately where I live in Queens NY. Yesterday it was 87 degrees out and really really humid. 
I had the car out all afternoon and was doing alot of "spirited" driving. All day long, the car drove exactly the same. It felt like it had absolutely ZERO loss in horse power due to heat soak.
I have had my Tyrolsport SMIC for a few months now...but yesterday was when I really got to notice just how much of a difference it makes! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TurboZen (Oct 15, 2000)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

Cool, pun intended. This is probably what I'm going to go with. Stealth = Cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (TurboZen)*

I've tried the search, but couldn't find anything...
I remember seeing a post that showed technical specs on TyrolSport's UG SMIC. It listed the core size and specs on the core itself like fin count etc. Does, anyone have the link or remember what post that was in?


----------



## Illegal Gardener (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

there was this one
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1836105
but i dont think the one you are thinking of exists anymore. IIRC, people started acting like shmucktards and it got black-holed. pm tyrolkid, i'm sure mike will show you anything you need to know about it


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

mine arrives on Friday. Just got done reading the directions for the 2nd time. Cant really seem much simpler. Especially after all the spring shock jobs Ive done. Still deciding if i want to put the stock shroud back on. I tend to like to put in the extra work to get everything perfect. Like shaving that shroud.. even if its a 2-3% difference.. then i think its worth it. I'll have to decide later. I guess none of the lower splash sheilds have to come off, since that part wasnt mentioned in any directions.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_mine arrives on Friday. Just got done reading the directions for the 2nd time. Cant really seem much simpler. Especially after all the spring shock jobs Ive done. Still deciding if i want to put the stock shroud back on. I tend to like to put in the extra work to get everything perfect. Like shaving that shroud.. even if its a 2-3% difference.. then i think its worth it. I'll have to decide later. I guess none of the lower splash sheilds have to come off, since that part wasnt mentioned in any directions.

The only problem I can see with retaining the shroud would be that the new SMIC is taller than the stock unit. This would mean that some of the surface area of the new SMIC would not be exposed to the flow of air through the shroud.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

ahh interesting point. but they do have you trim ur stock shroud if you choose to use it.


----------



## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

"A proper duct is probably the single most beneficial thing that can be done to an existing intercooler. Positioning in the main stream of ambient air is crucial." Bell Intercoolers
I would at least make an attempt to modify the duct.
Even if it's only a 2% difference, hey, that’s 2% that you didn't have before.



_Modified by Roger Hupp at 2:53 PM 6-9-2005_


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Roger Hupp* »_"A proper duct is probably the single most beneficial thing that can be done to an existing intercooler. Positioning in the main stream of ambient air is crucial." Bell Intercoolers
I would at least make an attempt to modify the duct.
Even if it's only a 2% difference, hey, that’s 2% that you didn't have before.


Good point... we'll have to give it a try. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*

I left my shroud off. One thing I do want to do is the audi S4 "vented" wheel well liner. I bet that would be a good mod. The air would be able to pass through the intercooler a lot better.
Plus, (i might be wrong)...but I once heard that when your at a good speed, the front tire spinning inside of the wheel well actually causes some type of "vacuum"-like effect causing air to actually be pulled through the intercooler. Anyone ever heard of that?


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_I left my shroud off. One thing I do want to do is the audi S4 "vented" wheel well liner. 

TTs come with that as well. IIRC, parts4vw.com has those wheel liners.


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_ Plus, (i might be wrong)...but I once heard that when your at a good speed, the front tire spinning inside of the wheel well actually causes some type of "vacuum"-like effect causing air to actually be pulled through the intercooler. Anyone ever heard of that?

Quite possible...it would be the Bernoulli's principle if it's true. Air would be rotating with the tire and thus have low pressure. What I don't know is the effect of the direct air hitting the bottom of the tire. Even without a vacuum effect, a liner hole would still allow IC air to pass through.


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (groftja)*

Well, sorry for no logging but the freaking weather here sucks so the first chance at a nice day, I just fired it in the car.
Holds the same boost it seems. Have not had a real good chance to "test" it. 
Good fitment that is for sure, quality piece.
Dave


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (genxguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *genxguy* »_
TTs come with that as well. IIRC, parts4vw.com has those wheel liners.

Got a link? I couldn't find them, but I thought they sold the liners, too.


----------



## jhoggle (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

http://www.parts4vws.com


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (jhoggle)*

Nevermind - got it from another forum. I meant a link to the product: http://www.parts4vws.com/catal...1172B


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

so this liner fits right in the stock VW location on the GTI?
Is it worth the bling?
Dave


----------



## machx0r (Feb 25, 2001)

*Re: (ZinK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZinK* »_so this liner fits right in the stock VW location on the GTI?

No it doesn't. You need to modify the vent and your existing wheel liner to combine the two pieces.


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (machx0r)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machx0r* »_
No it doesn't. You need to modify the vent and your existing wheel liner to combine the two pieces.

http://www.18turbo.com/ttvent.html http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

TY Sir


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

I gotta find out what all those parts are for. Cuz I have read the instructions a few times and never heard mention of the 2 brass pieces.. or that it comes with a sensor??


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

well... as i sat there and stared at my pics.. i realize what those parts are for.. the silver spacer is used ALONG with the two brass spacers to even the height. But I still need to determine if i need the spacer, and if im suppose to use that supplied sensor or use my stock one.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

Nevermind...


_Modified by ruso at 4:28 PM 6-10-2005_


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

hehe you beat me to it and edited...
if you read my post, ive read the directions many times. I guess the MAP sensor they included does fit the hole properly. But the MAP sensor I have stock might look different. If that silver adapter is supposed to fit IN that hole.. then thats gonna be a challenge.. cuz no ways gonna slide in without a lot of force. And if it does go there, then what are the 2 brass pieces for.


_Modified by placenta at 1:30 PM 6-10-2005_


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

I think the brass inserts may go inside the rubber inserts. The bolts thaat support the SMIC tighten down while the SMIC floats within the rubber inserts. According to Mike P, if the MAP sensor hole is too large for your MAP sensor, use the supplied sensor. However, I'm not sure what the silver insert is for.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i got all my info direct from Michael 5 mins ago on phone. Thats real good service. Anyway, the only things that normally come in the kit are the adapter and the 2 screws. I wont be needing anything else, and will work that out with Tyrolsport for return.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

On the other hand, I think that silver insert IS for the MAP bung. Could you post a closeup of the bung? It appears there is a lip to keep it from fallig down inside the core. MInd you, all of this is just my theory.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_i got all my info direct from Michael 5 mins ago on phone. Thats real good service. Anyway, the only things that normally come in the kit are the adapter and the 2 screws. I wont be needing anything else, and will work that out with Tyrolsport for return.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oh, so the other parts were from your stock SMIC?


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

guess i shoulda posted the answer. That silver piece will tap INTO that hole to make it smaller if i have the smaller diameter MAP sensor which its assumed I do. It will be tapped till it sits flush to make sure i have no leaks. 
Cant wait to get at this, but ill prob wait till Sat so i can dont get bothered with any work emergencies.


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

FYI - Mike is out of town until Monday, I think. That's what their message said on Wed. If you don't get an answer that may be why.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oh, so the other parts were from your stock SMIC?









ya those are stock parts that I do not need for my install. Out of courtesy, I will be returning them. Cant complain for getting too MANY parts rather than too little..


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_ya those are stock parts that I do not need for my install. Out of courtesy, I will be returning them. Cant complain for getting too MANY parts rather than too little..









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Honest man.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

most simple install ive ever done so far.. took all of 20 mins to have my stock SMIC out.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (placenta)*

nice welds.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_









Now that I have seen how the ducting mounts up the the stock SMIC, it's obvious that retaining it would keep a portion of the UG SMIC exposed to the incoming airstream. Hmm... nothing a little aluminum flashing and pop rivets couldn't fix.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i am done, and will post a short write up and pics shortly. I chose to not re-use the stock duct.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*

I think back how i said this was the easiest job ever, and laugh.. It was tougher than I thought. Just cuz it was the first time. I spent about 2 hours overall. 30 mins of that was wasted on bumper re-fitment, but ill bring that up later.
These are in order, just more random pics.. Here is when i started cutting my supports, as the pic earlier shows I had the stock SMIC out:








This pic shows what the top triangle cut should look like:








This is a nice clear pic from bottom, showing how much I had to take off. Its quite a bit, but im not worried about it at all.








This pic shows the Tyrolsport SMIC top hose attached. Perfect fit once I wrestled the device into place.








This shows the lower hose pushed on. The lower hose was a lot harder to get on than the top one.








The bumper issue which wasted 30 mins of my time.. I didnt know it had little tabs you slide onto.. So I missed those tabs.. and i couldnt beleive how far off my bumper lines were from my fenders. I got real bummed and just figured things dont fit the same once theyve been apart. Then I looked real close, and say these slot tabs which the bumper slides back onto, while its pulled out. Man was I stoked.








My bad oscar hidden and ready.








I dont expect to feel ANY increase in power right now.. Its only about 75F outside at most.. But I cant wait for an 80-90F day.. overall, product was a perfect fit, and directions were 99% accurate. Unless I read them wrong, I didnt see the part where you remove the 7 screws from the BOTTOM of the bumper. Where it attaches to the engine splash sheild. So once i found the hold, my bumper came right off.
Forgot.. one huge problem i had... getting that adapter metal in... man i HAMMERED on that for 10 mins.. it was to tight. but i got it. just FYI.



_Modified by placenta at 5:55 PM 6-10-2005_


----------



## omllenado (Jul 14, 2002)

good writeup now we're all just waiting for the real world test drive logs/impressions.... 
bump coz I'm down here in East Bay and heak soak sucks.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (omllenado)*

I should have mine sometime next week. I plan on doing before and after highway logs similar to what TyrolSport performed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bmp20bunny (May 8, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

i think the 7 extra screws are because the late 03(i think) and up Jetta has a slightly different center splash shield, using those screws. the earlier cars dont have it.
i need to count pennies... i like the idea of a better intercooler, just not interested in the "metal-mouth", and hacking up the front of my car.


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (bmp20bunny)*

Well, no logs but the but dyno is impressed.
Did some 1-3 pulls, stopped, u-turn and repeat. Usually after the 2nd run, heatsoak is a beotch.
NO LONGER!!!
Kept pulling hard every time I tried it. Mind you it is a cool night, bout 15 C ambient.
I am still happy I got the Tyrol.
Dave


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (ZinK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZinK* »_Well, no logs but the but dyno is impressed.
Did some 1-3 pulls, stopped, u-turn and repeat. Usually after the 2nd run, heatsoak is a beotch.
NO LONGER!!!
Kept pulling hard every time I tried it. Mind you it is a cool night, bout 15 C ambient.
I am still happy I got the Tyrol.
Dave

thats cool. thats 60F. suppose its not freezing, but its pretty cool. I never get heaksoak on a day like that anyway. maybe on the 80F days. cant wait to try mine out on my first hot day. i wonder if it can cool my air 5F at all times.. just since it has so much more air flow thru it. every 5F should mean 1-2hp? dunno. guessing.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i heard from tyrol about the mounting tabs on the new SMIC for the stock shroud. I have my bumper off again now, and im taking a look at it. i also got more pics of the SMIC since i didnt have any good ones. I will take a pic of the shroud up also.
the one thing i dont like.. i have to cut the stock shroud removing one of the stock tabs that mount it. not like i'd want my old smic back, but for when i sell it.. maybe ill look for a part # on it b4 i cut it.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

Have you had a chance to drive it yet? How does it feel on the butt dyno?


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

no, i havnt driven it yet. while i have it apart now, im double checking all my connections also. im starting my stock duct trimming, as i took a pic of the stock duct part number for later.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

Cool... make sure you post some pictures of the modified shroud mounted. I'm curious to see how much surface are of the UG SMIC will be exposed once it is mounted.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i have those pics pending. its 75% of smic seen by shroud at most. ive already trimmed both sides and got close up pix. trying some fitments now.

update. all done w shroud. tons of pix. now reassembling car b4 i come inside to post pics.


_Modified by placenta at 9:40 AM 6-11-2005_


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*

Pic of whats taken off for the job:








Pic of SMIC with bumper off:

















Pic showing stock rubber mounts reused properly:








Pic of stock shroud part number, before you start cutting:








Holding shroud up to SMIC to get an idea on fitment:








Pic showing the nubs on the new SMIC which the shroud will eventually fit onto:








Making my cuts on the air duct:
























Pic holding cut shroud onto SMIC and showing the nub action:
















Pic showing an extra measure I took for detail, and did a small tie wrap action at top of the shroud for added stability:
















Pic showing stock shroud fully attached to SMIC:








Pic showing how the shroud works from front. This is the bottom of shroud shot:








This is he top shroud shot. Notice you lose a tiny bit. But I think the shroud being there makes up for it anyway in proper direction:








Pic showing the outside part of the shroud. This is also a very good seal from exact edge of SMIC, and should direct flow very well:








That’s all. I’ll drive it soon. Some thoughts while its fresh on my mind. I used a ¼” drill bit to drill my nub holes in the stock shroud. Use one size smaller. I would have liked a tad tighter fit on my nubs. I did have to push it a bit, but it coulda been tighter. The corner of the bottom of the bumper is 1/8” off in screw holes after I put the shroud on. (The 2003.5-2004 use the 7-8 screws on bottom of bumper to splash shield apparently. Nothing to worry about, I still got all the bolts in. Make SURE you remember to put your side marker bulbs back in before installing all your bumper bolts. (My lesson today.) If I ever needed to take it out for any reason, I would want to add T clamps to the hoses instead of stock clamps. But as long as they don’t fall off I wont worry about it.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

Awesome writeup dude! Looks like you took your time and were very thorough while making the shroud work. Now go and take that thing for a ride already!


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

its KILLER DOOD.....
sure it "seems" faster but it prob isnt.. yet.. but.. i run my stock N75F these days.. At best, on the coldest days, I might see a 18psi peak. 
Today, a few mins ago.. i got many 20psi peaks... on a HOT day.. must be related to the SMIC?? I might not even put in my N75J again unless things change


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_the one thing i dont like.. i have to cut the stock shroud removing one of the stock tabs that mount it. not like i'd want my old smic back, but for when i sell it.. maybe ill look for a part # on it b4 i cut it.

Who's going to check to see if you even have a shroud when you sell it?


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i wouldnt want to sell anyone a f'ed up car. The stock SMIC is bad enough as it is, with a shroud. I'm keeping my stocker of course, ill get rid of this car someday. Then ill have the tyrolsport SMIC to sell. But we're talking 2-3 more years at least. I'm just starting to enjoy my car now. Can't WAIT for Summer!


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_
Pic showing stock shroud fully attached to SMIC:











Thanks for taking the time to take pics and do the write up. I was in too much of a hurry to take pics.
But...The shroud looks like it really restricts the amout of exposure the IC gets to air flow. You are effectively reducing the front surface to that of the stock IC. The part of the IC above and below the shroud isn't going to get any airflow.


_Modified by JettaRed at 7:32 PM 6-11-2005_


----------



## dodplayer45 (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

HOW MUCH IS IT!!!


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_
Today, a few mins ago.. i got many 20psi peaks... on a HOT day.. must be related to the SMIC?? 

This is really puzzling me still.. To me, this means that the stock SMIC is not capable of providing the full performance that a chip adds. My stock tiny SMIC (smaller than the 2001-2 version) was holding back my peaks on my APR, I guess it couldnt gulp enough air thru that tiny passage? Now, the strem is loosened up so to speak, and i get fat wide peaks of 20psi easily.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_But...The shroud looks like it really restricts the amout of exposure the IC gets to air flow. You are effectively reducing the front surface to that of the stock IC. The part of the IC above and below the shroud isn't going to get any airflow.


but... if you have no shroud.. the air just slams into that bumper and goes all over. can all bypass the SMIC, who knows. no way to tell. But Tyrol documented a slight decrease in temp with the stock shroud on, as little as it was.


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_
This is really puzzling me still.. To me, this means that the stock SMIC is not capable of providing the full performance that a chip adds. My stock tiny SMIC (smaller than the 2001-2 version) was holding back my peaks on my APR, I guess it couldnt gulp enough air thru that tiny passage? Now, the strem is loosened up so to speak, and i get fat wide peaks of 20psi easily.









Oh, yeah. I peak easily to 22 psi with the Tyrol IC without changing any of my boost settings.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_
Oh, yeah. I peak easily to 22 psi with the Tyrol IC without changing any of my boost settings.

im not surprised dood.. you got an H race valve.. makes me wonder what a j valve might do for me.. which i already have on my bench..


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (dodplayer45)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dodplayer45* »_HOW MUCH IS IT!!!









still $699 + ship i think.. but might increase later on. its a lot of money. but i love the product and dont regret it.


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_
im not surprised dood.. you got an H race valve.. makes me wonder what a j valve might do for me.. which i already have on my bench..

The H valve does add 1 to 2 psi over the J valve.


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

and the J valve adds 2-3 over the F valve....
i been experimenting with my F vs J for a year.


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

a new intercooler duct is $13.. thats awesome.
1J0121467A $18.53 $0.00 $13.34 
DUCT


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*

Great writeups!
Couple of thoughts:
1. The ECU usually allows more boost when it's warmer. This might be part of the higher boost you are seeing? It could also be because the cooler inlet is allowing more timing (see #4)
2. Could you possibly modify the lower shroud and add a duct that scoops are up into the IC?
3. According to _Maximum Boost by Corky Bell_ "the minimum duct inlet area should not drop below 1/4 of the core area" So while I think the duct should be trimmed back or flanges added to allow airflow to the whole IC, I don't think the duct size or bumper inlet is too bad.
4. I did some knock and HP logs yesterday testing a couple of things. My car with APR 93, CAI, TIP, and stock N75 was hitting 8s on the knock sensor at 17psi yesterday! Could be bad gas, perhaps, but it was about 80 with high humidity. I didn't check timing, but I am sure it was pulling timing with those knock #'s. I've never questioned knock with the APR program, but it can be an issue apparently.


_Modified by AutoXMan at 10:22 AM 6-12-2005_


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

Here are the 022 logs from yesterday:
2560	57.1	5.3	7.5
2720	73.7	5.3	7.5
2880	85.7	5.3	7.5
3040	92.5	4.5	7.5
3240	96.2	4.5	6.8
3440	99.2	4.5	6.8
3680	102.3	4.5	9.8
3880	105.3	7.5	9.8
4120	104.5	7.5	9.8
4320	99.2	7.5	9.8
4520	98.5	7.5	12
4760	97	12	12
4920	94	12	12
5160	93.2	12	12
5360	91.7	12	12
5560	86.5	12	12.8
5720	88	11.3	12.8
5880	92.5	11.3	12.8


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

someday i might try logs. but i guess it doesnt matter since i didnt get logs before.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutoXMan* »_1. The ECU usually allows more boost when it's warmer. 

hmm.. ive always heard the opposite. that cold crisp air peaks higher. but if youre right that would explain it.


----------



## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_hmm.. ive always heard the opposite. that cold crisp air peaks higher. but if youre right that would explain it.

In every single other turbo'd car that's true...


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

so i cant wait for a cold day then. maybe i peak 25psi. ROFL.. naw


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_
hmm.. ive always heard the opposite. that cold crisp air peaks higher. but if youre right that would explain it.

I know in the winter my boost dropped and there were a lot of threads about the same issue. One it warmed up - boost is back to normal. Apparently VW wanted the car to produce less than optimal power in the winter, and boost it in the summer. I guess it was to make a uniform driving experience year round.


----------



## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutoXMan* »_I know in the winter my boost dropped and there were a lot of threads about the same issue. One it warmed up - boost is back to normal. Apparently VW wanted the car to produce less than optimal power in the winter, and boost it in the summer. I guess it was to make a uniform driving experience year round.









dingdingding!








And I'm not being a jerk either, that's seriously what it is. 
Ask any other turbo'd car owner (WRX's come to mind) and they'll tell you they boost 2-3 extra lbs.
Colder air is denser, burns better, so you can pump more into the engine to make more power. Most cars take advantage of it. VW apparently doesn't wanna go too nuts on the performance side of things.
PS: And yeah, mine drops too during the winter.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*

When it's cold outside, our engines are able to run a more aggressive timing. Colder air + aggressive timing = less knock. Less knock = more power without having to boost as much. When it's warm, the ECU compensates for the increased knock and pulled timing (additionally increased by the heastsoak of our pathetic stock SMIC) by increasing boost.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

heres a log someone did for me.
3rd gear run, from about 3000 to as high as i could go till i ran out of room.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

Temp logs:


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_









Here's the highway log from TyrolSport's test:








Looks your test results were pretty close to TyrolSports... that definitely helps back up their claims. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

but i always run outta room so i cant rev as high. ill prob go to 280 today, cuz its so wide and large, i can prob get a couple decent 3k to 6k 3rd gear runs.


----------



## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Khaos-* »_
dingdingding!








And I'm not being a jerk either, that's seriously what it is. 
Ask any other turbo'd car owner (WRX's come to mind) and they'll tell you they boost 2-3 extra lbs.
Colder air is denser, burns better, so you can pump more into the engine to make more power. Most cars take advantage of it. VW apparently doesn't wanna go too nuts on the performance side of things.
PS: And yeah, mine drops too during the winter.

The cooler the air, the denser it is.
Denser air means more fuel is required.
Maybe it required the injectors to run over a predetermined duty cycle percentage that VW was comfortable with. Instead of installing larger injectors, maybe they opted to limit boost?


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i got some logs on a hot day, 85-86F, rev to 6k mostly. if anyone wants them in email to graph them.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)




----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*

This is amazingly consistent. look at the 4 separate runs, and how exactly parallel the inlet/outlet numbers are. They're always exactly the same amount apart. For anyone left here that doesnt know what these numbers stand for:
Column 1 = rpm
Column 2 = air temp before SMIC
Column 3 = air temp after SMIC
Column 4 = amount of timing rated at BTDC
Can anyone tell me how those timing ratings look? I havnt heard that part of the chart even mentioned yet.
Run 1
3400 92 41 3.8
3440 93 42 3
3520 92 42 6
3600 93 42 4.5
3640 93 42 0.8
3760 92 42 1.5
3840 93 42 0
3920 92 42 0.8
4000 93 43 0
4080 92 43 5.3
4160 92 44 0.8
4280 93 45 3
4360 93 45 3
4440 93 45 3
4520 93 46 5.3
4600 93 47 3
4680 93 47 9
4760 93 48 9.8
4840 93 48 5.3
4960 93 49 6.8
5040 93 50 6.8
5080 93 50 6.8
5200 93 50 9
5240 93 51 9
5320 93 51 9.8
5400 93 51 9.8
5480 93 52 9
5560 93 53 9.8
5640 93 54 11.3
5720 93 54 10.5
5760 93 54 12.8
5840 93 55 12.8
5880 93 56 13.5
5960 93 56 13.5
Run 2
3400 88 38 0.8
3480 88 38 4.5
3560 88 39 3.8
3600 88 39 0.8
3680 88 39 5.3
3760 88 39 2.3
3840 88 39 1.5
3920 88 39 0.8
4000 88 40 6.8
4080 88 41 0.8
4200 88 42 3.8
4280 88 42 2.3
4360 88 42 2.3
4440 88 43 5.3
4520 89 44 5.3
4600 88 44 15
4680 89 44 6
4760 89 45 3.8
4840 89 45 5.3
4920 89 46 6
5000 89 47 8.3
5080 89 48 8.3
5160 90 48 9
5240 90 48 6.8
5280 90 49 6.8
5360 90 50 12
5400 90 50 6.8
5480 90 51 6.8
5520 90 51 7.5
5560 90 52 8.3
Run 3
3080 90 39 22.5
3200 90 39 15
3280 91 39 5.3
3400 90 39 0
3520 90 39 3
3640 90 39 0.8
3720 90 39 4.5
3880 90 39 0.8
3960 90 39 0
4080 90 39 2.3
4200 90 39 6
4320 90 39 6.8
4440 90 40 6.8
4560 90 41 7.5
4680 90 42 8.3
4760 90 42 6
4880 90 43 5.3
4960 90 44 7.5
5040 90 45 6.8
5160 90 45 6
5200 90 45 9.8
5320 90 46 7.5
5400 90 47 7.5
5480 91 48 10.5
5560 90 48 11.3
5640 91 49 11.3
5680 91 49 9
5800 91 50 9
5840 91 50 10.5
5920 91 51 12.8
6000 91 51 13.5
Run 4
3160 91 40 0.8
3240 91 40 3.8
3280 91 40 3.8
3400 91 40 2.3
3440 91 40 3
3520 91 40 3
3640 91 40 0.8
3680 91 41 3.8
3760 91 42 0.8
3840 90 42 1.5
3920 90 42 2.3
3960 90 43 4.5
4080 90 43 2.3
4160 91 44 6.8
4280 90 45 4.5
4360 91 45 5.3
4440 90 45 3.8
4520 90 45 9.8
4600 91 46 4.5
4680 90 47 6.8
4760 91 48 8.3
4840 91 48 8.3
4920 91 48 6
5000 91 49 9.8
5080 91 49 6.8
5160 91 50 9
5200 91 50 7.5
5280 91 51 11.3
5360 91 51 9
5440 91 51 9
5520 91 52 8.3
5560 91 53 12.8
5640 92 53 9.8
5720 92 54 10.5
5760 92 54 14.3


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_









Hmm...unless there was a large difference in outdoor temperature, I'm not at all impressed with that at all. It's a far cry from what TyrolSport posted originally. Were those all done locally or did you grab the other logs elsewhere? I'm just curious if they were all on the same grade / inclide / load / etc.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
Hmm...unless there was a large difference in outdoor temperature, I'm not at all impressed with that at all. It's a far cry from what TyrolSport posted originally. Were those all done locally or did you grab the other logs elsewhere? I'm just curious if they were all on the same grade / inclide / load / etc.









While Placenta's data and intentions are good, unfortunately it cannot be used for comparison. The stock SMIC and EVO8 Intercooler logs were from a different car in a different part of the country. I think the mods to each individual vehicle were different as well. I think Placenta can speak better to the exact testing criteria used in the data presented above.








Also be aware that our original testing, presented on our website, was on a car using a GT28R/APR stage 3. Outlet temps and boost pressure would be vastly different than the ko3s that Placenta is using.










_Modified by TyrolSport2 at 5:41 PM 6-13-2005_


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

even tho the SMIC haters wont like it, that chart bascially has no credibility for a real test. The only line on that chart that is mine is the tyrol sport. The other 2 lines are from a dude in Florida who hates SMICs. lol.. just for the record.. so totally different roads.. i dont even have any flat roads round here. i was doing my logs on 280 freeway, and on skyline blvd up in the hills. lots of up and downgrades. i love it either way. The freeway power really blew me away. Almost 90F outside.. im on freeway ramp.. setting up 3rd gear at 3000 rpm.. pretty damn slow.. like 40mph maybe.. cars coming up in slow lane equal to me as im crawlin. i floor it, and am gone so quick as the spool passes 4500rpm. Seems to pull higher, like to a solid 5500rpm now. before, i think it ran outta steam around 5000.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (TyrolSport2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TyrolSport2* »_While Placenta's data and intentions are good, unfortunately it cannot be used for comparison. The stock SMIC and EVO8 Intercooler logs were from a different car in a different part of the country.

I figured that was probably the case. I plan on doing some logs similar to your highway tests to compare the stock smic to the UG SMIC with a K03S with the usual mods. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *TyrolSport2* »_Also be aware that our original testing, presented on our website, was on a car using a GT28R/APR stage 3. Outlet temps and boost pressure would be vastly different than the ko3s that Placenta is using.








 
Cool... then I'm sure many will benifit from my tests. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_The freeway power really blew me away. Almost 90F outside.. im on freeway ramp.. setting up 3rd gear at 3000 rpm.. pretty damn slow.. like 40mph maybe.. cars coming up in slow lane equal to me as im crawlin. i floor it, and am gone so quick as the spool passes 4500rpm.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*

someone should just buy 3 different types of 2 front mounts and the trylo and test all of the against the stock and each other....







then realize how much money they waisted


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

Well the Tyrol performed well at the auto X day last tuesday. It was a short track, so not a lot of WOT but there was still very little evidence of heat soak.
Al in all, I am happy that I bought it. I will find out at the end of the week (crosses ALL fingers and tows) if it works under WOT with a stage 3 + APR kit.
Wish me luck.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (ZinK)*

I'm installing mine tomorrow. I'll be doing extensive before and after logs which I will post later on tomorrow evening. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*

Mine is half in, but I had to work at dusk last night. It's been about 95F with probably 90% humidity the past 2 days. Frankly I just didn't have the patience to do pre-install testing. Not too mention that a 11-3pm window to do all the testing on one day just wasn't feasible with the weather.
I have to say, everything went in last night really, really well. Instructions were top notch and the fitment was perfect. I think I could have trimmed a little less, but where it says the fitment is tight - I had no issues. Mounted up a new lower IC pipe while I was at it, and that was the most difficulty I had.








As soon as I have this cup o joe - I'm back at it to finish it up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

Well, just finished installing the new UG SMIC. I'm going to get cleaned up a bit and then run out for some logs. I did (4) 2,500rpm-redline 3rd gear runs on the stock SMIC about 2 hours ago, just before pulling it in to do the install. The temperature hasn't changed at all so I should be able to post some good comparisons. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Stay tuned!


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

Ok, here's the comparison I promised. Until now, the only tests of the TyrolSport UG SMIC available were ones done with a vehicle equipped with the APR Stage III upgrade. Many were unsure about how it would perform with a chipped stock turbo vehicle. 
Before and after tests were conducted approximately 2 hours apart, however, the temperature only changed a few degrees. Outdoor temperature was measured at around 90 degrees farenheight with a high level of humidity. Tests were performed on the same road and started at the same location. As you may notice, on a few of the runs, I was unable to reach the peak RPM because of other vehicles. 








"Talk amongst yourselves..."


----------



## Gr8Scott95 (Nov 24, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

Were these back to back runs? If so, that means that the 5th run on the tyrol smic showed about as good of temps as the 1st run on the stock smic. Good stuff!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

those are some smooth graphs. way better than mine. it was close to 90F when i tested.. (86F).. but my highest SMIC temp was 56C.. just wondering why yours is about 70C at the same rpm i went to. now that i see it on paper, we're closer than i thought.
nice logs.


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (placenta)*

Are you sure the stock SMIC graphs are in the right sequence? Run 1 was the hottest.


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_
Can anyone tell me how those timing ratings look? I havnt heard that part of the chart even mentioned yet.


i had almost exactly the same temp results with my custom side mount ic. you're timing looks super low though.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_Are you sure the stock SMIC graphs are in the right sequence? Run 1 was the hottest.

Yes, I'm sure... interesting eh? I think maybe it was heatsoaked before actually hitting the interstate.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

Ok, here's the timing logs. Let me know if there is anything else you'd like to see. I logged blocks 003, 022, and 118. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by ruso at 12:11 PM 6-27-2005_


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_
i had almost exactly the same temp results with my custom side mount ic. you're timing looks super low though. 

whats that mean in reality? my timing should be way more adavanced if my car was running great? I only use supreme in my car.


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

Great work Ruso. I think the timing logs would be easier to decipher if you compared the 2nd runs of each IC on one graph and the 3rd runs on another graph. The first runs seem like they were overly affected by pre-test temps so I'd ignore them and focus on the best apples to apples cases mentioned above (runs 2 and 3 for each IC).


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_Great work Ruso. I think the timing logs would be easier to decipher if you compared the 2nd runs of each IC on one graph and the 3rd runs on another graph. The first runs seem like they were overly affected by pre-test temps so I'd ignore them and focus on the best apples to apples cases mentioned above (runs 2 and 3 for each IC).

So basically I should graph the best runs for each unit or should I average them? One thing that I forgot to consider is that the first run on the UG SMIC was after pulling it out of a 68 degree air conditioned garage.










_Modified by ruso at 12:13 PM 6-27-2005_


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

I think to make it a most apples to apples comparison would be to graph Runs 2 (stock and Tyrol) on one graph and Runs 3 (stock and Tyrol) on another graph. 
If you want to instead or in addition, it might also be a good idea to graph the average of Runs 2,3 (stock and Tyrol). I'm just thinking it is not fair to include runs 4, 5 on Tyrol vs the stock IC since that only had 3 runs and it gots hotter with each run. Also Run 1 was likely tainted as you said.


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_
whats that mean in reality? my timing should be way more adavanced if my car was running great? I only use supreme in my car.

take a look at russo's timing log then look at your's. russo's timing logs are pretty normal. it's about what i see out of my car.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_I think to make it a most apples to apples comparison would be to graph Runs 2 (stock and Tyrol) on one graph and Runs 3 (stock and Tyrol) on another graph. 
If you want to instead or in addition, it might also be a good idea to graph the average of Runs 2,3 (stock and Tyrol). I'm just thinking it is not fair to include runs 4, 5 on Tyrol vs the stock IC since that only had 3 runs and it gots hotter with each run. Also Run 1 was likely tainted as you said.

Yeah, I should have had a few more runs on the stock SMIC but I accidently hit the start button on the Vag consecutively which gave me an incomplete log. The fact that the car was pretty cool before the first UG SMIC run is definitely a disadvantage to the stock SMIC. I'll post a new graph later with runs #2 and #3 of both. I think that'd be a more fair comparison. 
Also, a friend of mine confirmed that the outdoor temperature was around 96 degrees, not the 90 degrees I thought it was. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Man did my car run like complete crap yesterday!


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_take a look at russo's timing log then look at your's. russo's timing logs are pretty normal. it's about what i see out of my car.

what might some usual causes be for timing not advancing as much as it should?


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_
what might some usual causes be for timing not advancing as much as it should? 

kinda depends if she's pulling any to begin with. do a log on block 020 3rd gear pull from 3k to 6 and half. then post it.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

sweet thanks. i just wanted a block number. might not have time for a few days, but ill run one on 020.


----------



## CorradoTRNJ (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (Don R)*

This forums amazes me.....big turbo's big=interecooler's....litttle turbo's=little intercooler's... big isnt better when it comes to IC's...most of u guys are losing HP cause of pressure drop..... just because a IC is bigger doesnt mean its more effecient for your application....this looks like a honda forum with all this crap of huge IC's


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_what might some usual causes be for timing not advancing as much as it should? 

Typically heat, bad gas, all kinds of things.


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (CorradoTRNJ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoTRNJ* »_This forums amazes me.....big turbo's big=interecooler's....litttle turbo's=little intercooler's... big isnt better when it comes to IC's...most of u guys are losing HP cause of pressure drop..... just because a IC is bigger doesnt mean its more effecient for your application....this looks like a honda forum with all this crap of huge IC's

We know all that already. The Tyrol Sport IC isn't exactly huge anyway. Dyno plots are available on their website. Based just on your post, it sounds like you have more to learn from this forum than we have to learn from you, which is the case with 99% of the people so don't feel bad.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

the Tyrolspot might even be a tad overkill for my stock turbo. but i didnt see any boost drop, thats for sure. And my 2004 had the smaller version of the stock SMIC anyway, so it has to be better in some ways. Plus my logs showed 12-16C temp drops compared to many other charts i have seen. Unfortunately, my logs arent viable since i didnt take stock SMIC logs.


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (CorradoTRNJ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoTRNJ* »_This forums amazes me.....big turbo's big=interecooler's....litttle turbo's=little intercooler's... big isnt better when it comes to IC's...most of u guys are losing HP cause of pressure drop..... just because a IC is bigger doesnt mean its more effecient for your application....this looks like a honda forum with all this crap of huge IC's

I know the tyrolsport intercooler works just fine on my car. and all i got is a chip! DEFINITELY *DID NOT *LOSE ANY HP, so I dont know what your talking about. Its not like its a huge intercooler that goes from one corner of the bumper to the other.
Hmmmm, what should we listen to....All the testing that Mike @ Tyrolsport has done? Or something written by someone comparing this to a honda forum


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (CorradoTRNJ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoTRNJ* »_This forums amazes me.....big turbo's big=interecooler's....litttle turbo's=little intercooler's... big isnt better when it comes to IC's...most of u guys are losing HP cause of pressure drop..... just because a IC is bigger doesnt mean its more effecient for your application....this looks like a honda forum with all this crap of huge IC's

riiiiight


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (CorradoTRNJ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoTRNJ* »_This forums amazes me.....big turbo's big=interecooler's....litttle turbo's=little intercooler's... big isnt better when it comes to IC's

Actually, big turbos flow more air at lower pressures and higher efficiency numbers. So they heat the air LESS for a given boost level. So if you were shooting for 200whp off a GT28RS at 10psi (guessing), you wouldn't need a very large core. I think you mean big power = big intercoolers.

_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoTRNJ* »_...most of u guys are losing HP cause of pressure drop..... 

Have you read any data on the Tyrolsport? It's more efficient with less pressure drop than the stock unit. Why do you think no one is trashing it?

_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoTRNJ* »_just because a IC is bigger doesnt mean its more effecient for your application....

You're part right. Stock turbo, stock intercooler, AND stock boost is fine. Turn up the boost on the K03 and you're generating LOTS of heat. Not to mention that laps on track get slower towards the end of the session. I don't think anyone is upgrading the IC without pushing the turbo a bit beyond it's design.

_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoTRNJ* »_this looks like a honda forum with all this crap of huge IC's

I think you're looking for the Greddy threads. This is about Tyrols' sidemount, which is larger than the stock SM, but is still smaller than a lot of front mounts.
It really sounds like all you did was read the title and hit the reply button.


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

Oh man...AutoXMan just Owned the $H!T out of you.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_









Ok, here's the boost logs (second run of each unit per groftja's request).


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

Awesome ruso! We are getting such good data in this thread and it's all generally in agreement. Now if we could see the timing logs like stated above, it would be even better.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_Awesome ruso! We are getting such good data in this thread and it's all generally in agreement. Now if we could see the timing logs like stated above, it would be even better.

Gimme a few hours and I'll post them up. I may wait for a cooler day and do some more testing. Swapping it out for the stock SMIC is a breeze.


----------



## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

what the? 2300 millibar (where it peaks at 3,500rpm) is equal to approx 33psi !
At 6500rpm its reading 1700 millibar (24.66psi). 
It is supposed to be reading Mbar, right?


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

You need to subtract ambient pressure.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Roger Hupp* »_what the? 2300 millibar (where it peaks at 3,500rpm) is equal to approx 33psi !
At 6500rpm its reading 1700 millibar (24.66psi). 
It is supposed to be reading Mbar, right?

Nevermind the numbers... just look at the graph.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

Ok... 2 mile hill, steep grade, about 70 degrees outside temperature, 3rd gear, 2,500 to redline, full throttle:


----------



## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

aah.. - 1bar / 14.7 or 1k mbar.
Now it makes sense.
Do you have to subtract anything for the temp?
About 22deg of advance at 6,500 rpm is pretty darn good.
63C (145.4) is still pretty high.
We have the ambient temp (70F) Outlet temp (145.4F, which is giving the cooler the benifit of the doubt b/c the air cools down a little more by the time it reaches the throttle body.)
All we need are some turbo outlet nozzle temps to calculate the efficiency.
Manicotti, you have a fluke w/ a temp probe? 


_Modified by Roger Hupp at 4:39 PM 6-28-2005_


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Ok... 2 mile hill, steep grade, about 70 degrees outside temperature, 3rd gear, 2,500 to redline, full throttle:

























Which blocks did you measure. I should do the same and see what effect water injection has on timing. My water starts spraying at about 13 psi.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_Which blocks did you measure. I should do the same and see what effect water injection has on timing. My water starts spraying at about 13 psi.

Blocks 003, 022, and 118.


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## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

@ 11.41psi and 6,000rpm your tbody temp was 140deg and climbing.
I would install the duct work to help force the ambient air thru the core, see if that helps cool the charge air a little more.


_Modified by Roger Hupp at 4:55 PM 6-28-2005_


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*

I would install the audi TT vented wheel well liner. That will also help the air flow through the core.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Roger Hupp* »_@ 11.41psi and 6,000rpm your tbody temp was 140deg and climbing.

Don'f forget too that at 11.41psi and 6,000rpm, the K03S turbo is pretty much nothing more than a hair dryer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

Good call! 
140 deg F is a bit high. If you could get down to 110 F-115 F on a 70 deg F day with the stock TC, think of the results you would have with a larger TC.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Roger Hupp* »_I would install the duct work to help force the ambient air thru the core, see if that helps cool the charge air a little more.

I wouldnt. I had mine installed, then finally removed it. it blocked 1/3 of the core anyway. Once you mod it for the new SMIC, it will never fit the stock one again, so make sure.


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*

Maybe Mike will decide to make an optional shroud...


----------



## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

Is the stock shroud crazy expensive or something?
Wait, its V-dub, DOH!
j/k
Regardless, if you want good performance, +25deg F above ambient is about the max you want to see with any application.


_Modified by Roger Hupp at 6:22 PM 6-28-2005_


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

no its cheap. like under $20 as i recall.


----------



## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

Hmmm. Ruso, wanna take one for the team? I'll get some 22ga. aluminum from work and we can modify your stock one.


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

new shroud. $13 bucks.
1J0121467A $13.34 
DUCT


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

An optional shroud and the TT wheel liner would be a good combo IMHO.
I am putting an APR 3+ on my car today, then I have to drive home. Shoudl be able to do some logs (3rd gear pulls) on the weekend.
Then we shal see if the SMIC from Tyrol is worth the bling. I love it so far, no more heatsoak for me on the chipped K03s.
Cheers to all the good, no great, info on this thread. Keep the logs comming.
Dave


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Roger Hupp* »_Hmmm. Ruso, wanna take one for the team? I'll get some 22ga. aluminum from work and we can modify your stock one.

Sure... do you guys have a brake we can use? My old man's got a rivet gun we can use to assemble it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## swett (Jun 28, 2000)

*Re: (placenta)*

You might want to try to find the RS4 shroud. At least on A4's, you can trim it to work with a larger SMIC, and its substantially larger than a typical stock shroud.
-Ian


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (swett)*

The problem with that is that the shroud must mate with the stock bumper & grill opening. Having the shroud larger than the opening at the front end wouldn't help. I think cutting the stock shroud back at least 3 inches and building a new 'bell' to mate with the IC is the best bet.


----------



## Wayne92SLC (Mar 1, 2001)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

Just installed one of these a few weeks ago--nice piece.
http://www.autotech.com/catalog/icvp.htm
-Wayne


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

my wheel burned a huge whole in the shroud and i also drilled the crap out of mine.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (screwball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *screwball* »_my wheel burned a huge whole in the shroud and i also drilled the crap out of mine.

Cheap mod. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

Make louvers.
Slice the plastic like this |______| (about 6" wide x 1" tall. About 5 or 6 rows and use a heat gun to form the plastic so the bottom of the flap sticks out about 1/4". It prevents road debris and mud from being slung all over the back side of the intercooler. This might sound like a







idea, but I bet it will work.

_Modified by Roger Hupp at 3:36 PM 6-30-2005_


_Modified by Roger Hupp at 3:37 PM 6-30-2005_


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Cheap mod. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









oh yeah, so to the guys w/ coilovers just dial those badboys down a inch more and voila, there's your wheel well mod. hahahah...


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (screwball)*

I like the flap idea, but there are butresses behind my liner. Cross-bracing that would need to be cut. I already lost a liner at RA from flapping, so I would like to keep the bracing. For the same reason, I can't see doing a screen, or the TT vent. I just drilled holes and called it good enough. Any debris would have to go through at a near horizontal angle to hit the IC. The IC might get gummed up from spray, but I imagine cleaning it with a hose is probably ok. I'll just check it every spring.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*

...i want one


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i havnt had any heatwaves yet to really enjoy it. but its nice knowing it there. ; )


----------



## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*

Very nice! I was looking at getting the ABD FMIC, but I may be staying in "sleeper mode" now!


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (Shifty1.8T)*

Just read through this entire post. Still don't know why I would buy this over say a eurojet FMIC. Everyone is talking about how to mod your air ducts to deliver more air, why not just place a larger core directly in the path of the cool air? Makes sense to me. Also....on BT apps, wouldn't this smaller core heatsoak quicker? I'm not knocking the product as a side mount upgrade. It looks like a quality product, but how do you compare this to a larger FMIC for 300+ whp apps? Just doesn't add up.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

you obviously didnt read this whole thread properly. Tyrol sports numbers and charts are on a big turbo car.


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_you obviously didnt read this whole thread properly. Tyrol sports numbers and charts are on a big turbo car.

Yes, but what FMIC are there comparing it to? What was the ambient temperature of their tests? And not to bash Tyrolsport, but if you start believing everything you read on a manufacturers website then you need to believe that a neuspeed p-flow will net you 8-10whp. These tests need to be conducted in 80+ degree heat on the same car by a third party in order to be credible. Period.


_Modified by FreshieMedia at 5:31 PM 7-10-2005_


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_ These tests need to be conducted in 80+ degree heat on the same car by a third party in order to be credible. Period.
_Modified by FreshieMedia at 5:31 PM 7-10-2005_

A few questions to stimulate this discussion if we may:
What would be the difference in testing an intercooler in 0deg, 50deg, and 100deg temps? Would the resulting charge temperature be 50 and 100deg hotter? If not, what is the equation which would show how the charge temp and IC react to the differing temperatures?
Do you think all Intercoolers on the market should be tested to the same criteria in order to prove their efficacy? If so, where are the results for all of the intercoolers on the market? Do certain manufacturers not have to provide this data because of their brand name?


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_A few questions to stimulate this discussion if we may:
What would be the difference in testing an intercooler in 0deg, 50deg, and 100deg temps? Would the resulting charge temperature be 50 and 100deg hotter? If not, what is the equation which would show how the charge temp and IC react to the differing temperatures?
Do you think all Intercoolers on the market should be tested to the same criteria in order to prove their efficacy? If so, where are the results for all of the intercoolers on the market? Do certain manufacturers not have to provide this data because of their brand name?









I see your point. I don't ask about the others mainly because the front-runners have been proven in real world conditions by multiple people with different setups. I'm only busting your balls because your product is new and has yet to be proven to withstand constant abuse from big turbo apps. Every new *promising* product that hits the market gets this kind of scrutiny. You should take it as a compliment! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_Every new *promising* product that hits the market gets this kind of scrutiny. You should take it as a compliment! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









We do take it as a compliment.








We just find it strange that some other new players in the market are allowed to pass go and collect $200 *just* because they are FMICs. Some of the core designs out there are absolute junk! We'll keep fighting the good fight....we've sold a lot of SMICs already, and have not had one unhappy customer.










_Modified by tyrolkid at 7:18 PM 7-10-2005_


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_We do take it as a compliment.








We just find it strange that some other new players in the market are allowed to pass go and collect $200 *just* because they are FMICs. Some of the core designs out there are absolute junk! We'll keep fighting the good fight....we've sold a lot of SMICs already, and have not had one unhappy customer.









_Modified by tyrolkid at 7:18 PM 7-10-2005_

That's more than most can say! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif But can you tell me how much hp this intercooler is good for? How much does it flow? Let's start there.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
That's more than most can say! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif But can you tell me how much hp this intercooler is good for? How much does it flow? Let's start there.

Do you mean what's the max sustainable horsepower? Theoretically, it could support 350whp. We won't make that claim, however, until it dynos that high. Until now, the most horsepower a car has dynoed with the UG SMIC is 300whp. We are building a 3071R car which we will use as a testbed for the UG SMIC on high hp/high boost applications.


----------



## RonJeremy (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_
A few questions to stimulate this discussion if we may:
What would be the difference in testing an intercooler in 0deg, 50deg, and 100deg temps? Would the resulting charge temperature be 50 and 100deg hotter? If not, what is the equation which would show how the charge temp and IC react to the differing temperatures?
Do you think all Intercoolers on the market should be tested to the same criteria in order to prove their efficacy? If so, where are the results for all of the intercoolers on the market? Do certain manufacturers not have to provide this data because of their brand name?










I don't know the formulas but most people know when it is over 80 outside the stock SMIC heat soaks quickly. In winter it doesn't seem to loose power. 
My non scientific way of putting it is, if you microwave some food for too long trying to cool it with a hair dryer doesn't work as well as blowing cool air on it. The hotter it is outside the less efficiently the air is cooled.


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (RonJeremy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RonJeremy* »_I don't know the formulas but most people know when it is over 80 outside the stock SMIC heat soaks quickly. In winter it doesn't seem to loose power. 
My non scientific way of putting it is, if you microwave some food for too long trying to cool it with a hair dryer doesn't work as well as blowing cool air on it. The hotter it is outside the less efficiently the air is cooled.

I think what he was saying is if you are testing both the SMIC and a FMIC given a constant ambient temp it shouldn't make a difference what temp you test them at as long as they are both tested at the same temp. I'm not a physics person, but I'd like to see this tested anyway.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
I think what he was saying is if you are testing both the SMIC and a FMIC given a constant ambient temp it shouldn't make a difference what temp you test them at as long as they are both tested at the same temp. I'm not a physics person, but I'd like to see this tested anyway.



FreshieMedia said:


> Pretty much sums it up. There is a difference, and it is not linear. It's not like the SMIC just stops working at a magical temperature and the FMIC keeps going. They both have to "work" harder as temperature increases. We continue to stand by our position; If testing a given SMIC and FMIC at let's say 50degrees, the performance between the two units will be statistically insignificant at 150degrees. It's a bold claim, I know. But all of our testing data to date keeps pointing in that direction. We will be posting hot weather dyno testing of stock vs. SMIC in the coming weeks.


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

Well, I just did a day track day at Autobahn in Joliet. Roughly a 2 mile road course with the fastest straight reaching the very top of 4th. Roughly 100-110mph. Ambient temps were around 90 degrees. 
The second half of the day I ran 3 20min sessions seperated by 20 min breaks. There was no power loss at all, even towards the end of a session it still pulled just as hard as the first lap. I don't have any data since a laptop and OBDII cable would be difficult to deal with on track.
The car: APR 93, APR 2.5 TB, CAI, Samco TIH, SMIC, NS Pullies


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (AutoXMan)*

Nice....was this the 4th of july extravanganza? My buddy has raced his viper there before. It's supposed to be one classy track. I just can't bring myself to pay the buck fifty to race though.
As for testing the SMIC on a hot day, why not test it vs a FMIC...we all know it's going to destroy the wimpy stock side mount. If you want to make the claim that this will perform as well as a FMIC in high heat/boost apps then you need to show us! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_As for testing the SMIC on a hot day, why not test it vs a FMIC...we all know it's going to destroy the wimpy stock side mount. If you want to make the claim that this will perform as well as a FMIC in high heat/boost apps then you need to show us! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

We've only been asking for a Greddy 31 volunteer for months now. And then when we beat the Greddy, everybody will be like "We know the Greddy 31 sucks, test it against the 28 core" and then the Precision, and then the Euroject and on and on. We'd like to see other manufacturers step up to the plate and prove their units work. We have tested FMICs that performed *equal* to stock on the dyno and street......


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_We've only been asking for a Greddy 31 volunteer for months now. And then when we beat the Greddy, everybody will be like "We know the Greddy 31 sucks, test it against the 28 core" and then the Precision, and then the Euroject and on and on. We'd like to see other manufacturers step up to the plate and prove their units work. We have tested FMICs that performed *equal* to stock on the dyno and street......









Not trying to be a jerk, but we don't owe you anything. You are trying to make a sale to us and $750 to buy a new FMIC to compare against isn't a lot of money. If you were truly confident it will compare to the level of the best FMIC's out there then you should do it. You may just push people like me over the edge. I'll be honest I won't buy your unit because I don't believe it will support 350 whp, but I know for a fact there are several FMIC's out there that handle that power level with ease. Why take the risk for the same money? If your kit was in the $500 range the I'd have no argument and would probably just shut up and buy your kit. Food for thought.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
Not trying to be a jerk, but we don't owe you anything. You are trying to make a sale to us and $750 to buy a new FMIC to compare against isn't a lot of money. If you were truly confident it will compare to the level of the best FMIC's out there then you should do it. You may just push people like me over the edge. I'll be honest I won't buy your unit because I don't believe it will support 350 whp, but I know for a fact there are several FMIC's out there that handle that power level with ease. Why take the risk for the same money? If your kit was in the $500 range the I'd have no argument and would probably just shut up and buy your kit. Food for thought.

We agree. Like I said earlier, we just find it strange that people automatically assume that an FMIC is better with no proof. There are a number of units being promoted in this very forum that have little or no data provided by the manufacturers. We understand that since we are the newcomers that the onus is on us to prove our case, but sometimes we wonder if it is even worth it when many people choose an IC solely based on looks.








I'm willing to bet that you could push 350whp through the stock intercooler with the right turbo and enough boost. Does that mean it's ideal? Hardly. But when people are pushing 300-350whp with intercoolers that have smaller core volumes and inferior core construction than the UG SMIC, it does make us wonder how our unit would perform.










_Modified by tyrolkid at 11:25 PM 7-10-2005_


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_I'll be honest I won't buy your unit because I don't believe it will support 350 whp...


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_If your kit was in the $500 range the I'd have no argument and would probably just shut up and buy your kit.

I dont get it...so, your trying to say that if the intercooler was cheaper, then you would believe that it can support 350whp???
Dude, you make no sense at all








The tyrolsport smic is probably the best thing i ever bought for my car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8TIM* »_I dont get it...so, your trying to say that if the intercooler was cheaper, then you would believe that it can support 350whp???
Dude, you make no sense at all








The tyrolsport smic is probably the best thing i ever bought for my car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'm just a consumer trynig to make an informed decision. I'd rather not be a guinea pig. You say it works well for you. That's what I want to hear. What setup are you running?


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

it works well for EVERYONE thats bought it. Either take a crap or get off the pot. I even posted my logs on stock turbo, showing 10-15 celcius reductions.


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_it works well for EVERYONE thats bought it. Either take a crap or get off the pot. I even posted my logs on stock turbo, showing 10-15 celcius reductions. 

Amen.


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

http://www.tyrolsport.com/sidemount.htm 
and thats all i gotta say about that!


----------



## Hetzen (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

I'd give you a hand with my 31 but I'm in Chicago.


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_it works well for EVERYONE thats bought it. Either take a crap or get off the pot. I even posted my logs on stock turbo, showing 10-15 celcius reductions. 

And you're running an APR 91 chip. Not at all what I am looking for. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

FreshieMedia, what boost will you be running with the BT?
My point is depending on turbo efficiency and boost, you could have lower charge temps with the BT setup than people who are doing 20 psi on the ko3s. I have the formula for charge temps to do a comparison.


_Modified by groftja at 6:56 PM 7-11-2005_


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
I'm just a consumer trynig to make an informed decision. I'd rather not be a guinea pig. 

Making an informed decision is the best thing you can do for yourself. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
After your initial research, to which units have you narrowed down your search? Maybe we can help you make a better decision if we have competitive data on core size and construction type.


----------



## BDP (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

I've got a Type 31 sitting in my office not opened. IM if you want to use it for testing and we can work out the stipulations.


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

Just wanted to point out the obvious that TyrolSport has shown over and over that their customer service and testing of their products has set the standard in the industry. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (groftja)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_FreshieMedia, what boost will you be running with the BT?
My point is depending on turbo efficiency and boost, you could have lower charge temps with the BT setup than people who are doing 20 psi on the ko3s. I have the formula for charge temps to do a comparison.

_Modified by groftja at 6:56 PM 7-11-2005_

Probably GT28RS set at 21psi or so.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_Probably GT28RS set at 21psi or so.

The TyrolSport UG SMIC is perfect for your setup then. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

Okay, that's high boost pressure, but since your turbo will be running at higher efficency (less heat) than people running the same pressure on the ko3, as far as charge temps are concerned you can look at other people's results who run the ko3 at similar pressures. The other issue is flow and so ask TyrolSport if they can answer that for you.


_Modified by groftja at 7:49 PM 7-11-2005_


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_ The other issue is flow and so ask TyrolSport if they can answer that for you.

_Modified by groftja at 7:49 PM 7-11-2005_

That's my biggest concern.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
That's my biggest concern.

If that's your biggest concern, will you be buying the IC that has the largest CFM number? What are the CFM numbers of the ICs you are looking at?
A word of caution. CFM is a great tool to understand how well a particular unit flows. HOWEVER, an IC with a lower CFM can actually work better than a unit with a higher CFM. A bar and plate core with large dimensions will have a lower CFM than a comparable tube and fin unit. The tube and fin will flow more air(Higher CFM), but will be less effective at removing heat(higher charge temps). That being said, our unit flows 395cfm.


----------



## kleinergti1 (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

ordered mine today can't wait to get it. Tyrolsport was very helpful over the phone as far as direction for my future upgrades. thanks 
mike


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (kleinergti1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kleinergti1* »_ordered mine today can't wait to get it. Tyrolsport was very helpful over the phone as far as direction for my future upgrades. thanks

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (ruso)*

96+ degrees today and the car felt like it was winter!








Oh, wait, that was the air conditioning.








(Ha, ha. I'm so funny!)
The car actually felt very strong in spite of the extreme heat. In the past, a day like today would make the car feel like a 2.0. The car was not suffering at all!


----------



## Snooters (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

i just ordered mine. hope i made the right choice. i just paid the full price, and money doesnt grow on trees for me. 
it was literally 95-100F the past few days and my car has been feelin it.


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (Snooters)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Snooters* »_i just ordered mine. hope i made the right choice. i just paid the full price, and money doesnt grow on trees for me. 
it was literally 95-100F the past few days and my car has been feelin it.

Just remember, you gotta be moving for it to work. Sitting in traffic, it will seem the same.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

i saw the unit at WF at tyrolsports booth. not that looks have much to do w/ performance but the unit looks extremely well built. it dwarfs the smic in comparison.


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## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

Slighty off-topic from what's being discussed right now...
I noticed that during the highway testing, coolant temps were much higher with FMIC than with either stock or UG SMIC. Could that be due to the FMIC blocking the radiator, at least partially?
I bring this up because I attend HPDEs a lot and have several friends who are either instructors at HPDE or are club racers or both, and I've asked around as to why none of them have an FMIC. Almost to a person, they all said they don't want to block the radiator. 
Now a partially-blocked radiator may not affect a car too much when running down the strip 1/4mile at a time, or driving around town, or even driving on the highway. However, it IS a big concern when I'm pushing my car for 20-30min(or even longer) at a time on a real race track. 
From all the research I've done and talking to ppl much much more experienced than me, it seems an SMIC is a safer choice for cars that see the track often, like mine. If I had a choice between an FMIC and SMIC that performed equally, I'd choose the SMIC. Can't say that I'd choose an FMIC even if it had a slight performance advantage. At the end of the day, for me engine reliability is more important than 10, 20, 30 more hp.


_Modified by genxguy at 6:22 PM 7-16-2005_


----------



## meaculpa20v (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (genxguy)*

ditto on the blockage. that is what I hear. don't block the radiator. HOT day plus FMIC and AC on = over heating car. that is why they tell you not to drive with your AC on when it is actaually really hot out and you have to puch your car, like up a hill or something. the condensor is small but it blocks enough of the radiator to mess with cooling compare it to a fmic


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## mtiede (Jun 23, 2005)

that thing is sick but it is not worth 750. It is just the intercooler. The other guys give you all new plumbing. No duh that they have to but this should be about 400. I think that you would still be making a hefty profit and be a very affordable alternative to fmics.


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

its worth whatever people will pay for it. and they cant keep up w production..


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (mtiede)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mtiede* »_that thing is sick but it is not worth 750. It is just the intercooler. The other guys give you all new plumbing. No duh that they have to but this should be about 400. I think that you would still be making a hefty profit and be a very affordable alternative to fmics. 

You make one just as good and sell it for $400 and I'll buy it.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_You make one just as good and sell it for $400 and I'll buy it.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

I am happy with mine and the price was fine IMHO.
Dave


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## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (ZinK)*

Bump this cuz last night I drove the car mega-hard in RainForest-type weather all the way from E-town to Queens...and even after coming to a complete stop at all the toll booths, my car would launch and get to speed like it was the middle of winter.


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## zooyork155 (Nov 10, 2003)

JettaRed-
Were you able to get comparison logs of the W/I on the Tyrol UGSMIC?


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## Snooters (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (zooyork155)*

just installed it, i have nothing new to add, except i'm another satisfied customer. also thanks to Mike at tyrolsport for answering my questions.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Snooters)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Snooters* »_just installed it, i have nothing new to add, except i'm another satisfied customer. also thanks to Mike at tyrolsport for answering my questions.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (Snooters)*

Same here , easy install , nice fitment ,alot smother power in todays heat . Installed on my nephews car ( my old car 01 WE ) will be doing a BACK TO BACK test on a APR K04 car . Going to the dyno within 10 days gonna do some logs and performance gains ( stock IC and the tyrolsport UGSM ) same day , same dyno, same dyno used last year before the APR K04 upgrade ( was a APR KO3s prior ). Will post all Data .







Bob.G


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_Same here , easy install , nice fitment ,alot smother power in todays heat . Installed on my nephews car ( my old car 01 WE ) will be doing a BACK TO BACK test on a APR K04 car . Going to the dyno within 10 days gonna do some logs and performance gains ( stock IC and the tyrolsport UGSM ) same day , same dyno, same dyno used last year before the APR K04 upgrade ( was a APR KO3s prior ). Will post all Data .







Bob.G

Looking forward to logs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Looking forward to logs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 me too


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*

Lately, I've been doing some logging while running the car pretty hard, and although intake temperatures are still higher than desired (this is probably due to my extremely inefficient chipped K03S) the unit does do an excellent job at dissipating heat when off the throttle. Don't get me wrong, intake temperatures are still much lower than with the stock SMIC. However, rule of thumb for an effective intercooler is to have no more than a 20 degree difference between the compressor and intake. Once I get a larger compressor in there, I'm sure that's where the UG SMIC will really shine.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i think i found the same thing.. a 15-20C reduction with my stock turbo.


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## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Lately, I've been doing some logging while running the car pretty hard, and although intake temperatures are still higher than desired (this is probably due to my extremely inefficient chipped K03S) the unit does do an excellent job at dissipating heat when off the throttle. Don't get me wrong, intake temperatures are still much lower than with the stock SMIC. However, rule of thumb for an effective intercooler is to have no more than a 20 degree difference between the compressor and intake. Once I get a larger compressor in there, I'm sure that's where the UG SMIC will really shine.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

can you please elaborate on this:

_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_ the unit does do an excellent job at dissipating heat when off the throttle. Don't get me wrong, intake temperatures are still much lower than with the stock SMIC. 


and this depends on ambient temps and PSI you run your larger turbo...

_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_However, rule of thumb for an effective intercooler is to have no more than a 20 degree difference between the compressor and intake. Once I get a larger compressor in there, I'm sure that's where the UG SMIC will really shine.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (kilmer420)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kilmer420* »_can you please elaborate on this:

Elaborate on what? My previous logs speak for themself. And those were done in 90+ degree weather.

_Quote, originally posted by *kilmer420* »_and this depends on ambient temps and PSI you run your larger turbo...

Of course. I was only implying that in these same conditions with a more efficient turbocharger, overall intake temperatures should be lower.


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## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
Elaborate on what? My previous logs speak for themself. And those were done in 90+ degree weather.
*I didn't see them and was just asking?*
Of course. I was only implying that in these same conditions with a more efficient turbocharger, overall intake temperatures should be lower.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

Installed my UGSMIC today in my Mark IV Jetta. GT28RS @ 18psi.
I logged this morning with the stock side mount, and then this afternoon after the install. I'll post logs tomorrow if I'm not too lazy.
Bottom line- 3000-6400RPM 4th gear pulls (on the closed course) got the stock unit up to 90 C (194F), the UGSMIC reached 70C (158F), a 36 degree improvement.

The install was quite easy- @ 1.5 hours. I'm sure I could do it in an hour next time,
Instructions: Excellent and complete. The unit fits very well.
Major thumbs up to Tyrolsport.
Next up is an intercooler spray.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

Send me the logs and I'll graph them and post them up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jwile (Apr 16, 2002)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoBeRt_68* »_ V.O.A.F. Vw Owners Against Flik's - Vice President (Founded 3/10/2005) 

Not thread jacking but i have t ask ? WTF is this ?


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Jwile)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

Right-on Bob http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Maybe throw in another one into the mix for a dual setup


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

I ran a similar test with my EVO FMIC and my STG III. 
90C peak on SMIC
70C peak on FMIC
THen with water injection 70C peak EVO FMIC
55C Peak With Water Injection (smallest jet i have, progressive controlelr)
Running stocker through a few gears ~120 mph up hill








Running EVO with and without water through same gears, same hill








Note there are temp differences between the data, however I ran a before/after evo the same day that showed 70C peak. i was a little disappointed it didnt remove more. but 22 psi is a lot of boost and the flow is pretty high with a 28R. 


_Modified by enginerd at 12:58 PM 8-2-2005_


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*

Nice!
Wow, the delta from stock to the Tryol SMIC in Bob's tests was the same as the delta from stock to EVO FMIC in your tests (w/out H20 injection). Even though not all variables are the same, it still does give a good idea of how EVO FMIC compares to the Tyrol SMIC.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (groftja)*

I would say the tyrol SMIC is like mighty mouse!!


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_









I love the label for 4th gear.








Edit - damn typos.


_Modified by ruso at 1:28 PM 8-2-2005_


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

I couldn't believe it was 90C coming out of the intercooler. 90C = 194F. how these things still make hp is amazing.


----------



## GS Audio (Oct 17, 2001)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

Just stumbled across this thread......
From what I've been told, the SMIC Tyrol offers is pretty sick.....plus allows you to keep a more "stock" appearance.
I didn't read the whole thread........are there any gains in performance to uprade to one of these on a stock 1.8t?


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (GS Audio)*

no hp gains really. just keeps you from losing hp due to heat-soak. I bought one of Tyrolkid's intercoolers when they first came out. I love it. I definitely noticed the car performs better. especially on really hot and humid days.


----------



## GS Audio (Oct 17, 2001)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

I was talking to my buddy about some "possible" upgrades to my PG GLI that would yield some decent HP gains at a fairly reasonable cost. He suggested one of these SMIC, a turbo-back exhaust, chip, and possibly a CA!. WOuld that be enough to bring me in the low 200 HP range?


----------



## 1.8TIM (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (GS Audio)*

Yup.


----------



## GS Audio (Oct 17, 2001)

*Re: (1.8TIM)*

OK....sounds like I need to start a Xmas list for the wife......








Maybe I can have some good power for next year!


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (GS Audio)*

TyrolSport UG SMIC... good stuff. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (Jwile)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jwile* »_Not thread jacking but i have t ask ? WTF is this ?









its pretty self explanitory buddy


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif lowered price







pleeeeeeease


----------



## Illegal Gardener (Oct 8, 2004)

should be getting mine on friday, installing on sat or sunday. i'll log if anyone wants to graph it or give me the formulas or whatever for excel. .. and make it a point to log before and after


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Im practically a male model*

has anyone made a modified shroud for this bad boy yet? Or pics of the OEM shroud in action?


----------



## steez (Dec 2, 2000)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_TyrolSport UG SMIC... good stuff. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Illegal Gardener (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

slapped mine on this weekend... car has been running noticably stronger. on a stock turbo it's definitely a nice upgrade if you have hot summers.
whole job took me an hour and 15 minutes of install time.... total joke for anyone who's taken the bumper off before. used an air dremel for the trimming and saved so much time.
unfortunately i had too much work to do the logs i wanted to, i cant begin explain how busy the weekend was. the next brutal hot day we get i'll plug in and do some IAT and timing logs.
what i really can't wait for is to see how it does with my 28r. soon....


----------



## silverbullet420 (May 21, 2004)

*Re: (Illegal Gardener)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Illegal Gardener* »_what i really can't wait for is to see how it does with my 28r. soon....

i'd be very interested to see ur results http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Illegal Gardener)*

My GT28RS is going in this Friday... I'll post intake temp logs as soon as I get a chance. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_My GT28RS is going in this Friday... I'll post intake temp logs as soon as I get a chance. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i wanna see how it performs on a bt


----------



## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*

Wasn't this thing tested on around an APR STG III car to begin w/, ie GT28 turbo?


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_Wasn't this thing tested on around an APR STG III car to begin w/, ie GT28 turbo?

Yep.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

We are now finally caught up with backorders, and have some in stock for immediate delivery. Thanks again to everyone who has supported us!


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_We are now finally caught up with backorders, and have some in stock for immediate delivery. Thanks again to everyone who has supported us!









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## LowFlyinRabbit (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_We are now finally caught up with backorders, and have some in stock for immediate delivery. Thanks again to everyone who has supported us!









Finally made up my mind and decided to go with the UGSMIC. Came in last week. The core on this thing is very impressive... huge! My installer for the Stage III+ is installing it for me at the same time as the turbo so I didn't have a chance to see how that went. It was the first time he's done the Tyrolsport, said it only required minor trimming, even on my 20th, and he used the stock clips and everything. Install should be finished tomorrow, hopefully for sure this time, damn hurricane Katrina. Be putting up dyno's around then for anyone interested.


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (LowFlyinRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LowFlyinRabbit* »_
Finally made up my mind and decided to go with the UGSMIC. Came in last week. The core on this thing is very impressive... huge! My installer for the Stage III+ is installing it for me at the same time as the turbo so I didn't have a chance to see how that went. It was the first time he's done the Tyrolsport, said it only required minor trimming, even on my 20th, and he used the stock clips and everything. Install should be finished tomorrow, hopefully for sure this time, damn hurricane Katrina. Be putting up dyno's around then for anyone interested.

yeah i hear you this hurricane blew... i STILL dont have power. I was hoping i would be able to see the core b4 i bought one


----------



## LowFlyinRabbit (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*

It's about 95 degrees outside right now and I don't think I could walk a quarter mile, but my car just did, a few times a that. This intercooler is extremely impressive. Car pulled just as hard if not harder every time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Tyrolsport.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (LowFlyinRabbit)*

Normal cruising intake temperature on the interstate last night was 27 degrees Celsius. I did a few had runs and couldn't get it above about 49 degrees. I wish it would cool better while on the throttle but it does an awesome job at getting rid of the heat when off throttle. No longer than 30 seconds later, my intake temperature was back to normal.
I'm guessing a large front mount may do better while on throttle because of the amount of core exposed.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

even a large front mount doesnt hold ambient through the gears, There is like 30 hp worth of heat to get rid of. 20 lbs of boost is a lot of heat.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_even a large front mount doesnt hold ambient through the gears, There is like 30 hp worth of heat to get rid of. 20 lbs of boost is a lot of heat. 

I guess a FMIC wouldn't do much different... but DAMN does this thing do it's job! I ran my car hard tonight for the first time since installing my kit and I must say that the Tyrolsport UG SMIC is a perfect compliment to the GT28RS! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_No longer than 30 seconds later, my intake temperature was back to normal.

30 seconds ?


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Nonlinear Optics)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nonlinear Optics* »_
30 seconds ?

Well, I wasn't keeping time, but at 65mph and at 28 degrees Celsius, it cooled back down almost immediately.


----------



## DuTTCH (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

How is the Audi TT 180 fitment coming along?


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
Well, I wasn't keeping time, but at 65mph and at 28 degrees Celsius, it cooled back down almost immediately.









that's more like it !
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (DuTTCH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DuTTCH* »_How is the Audi TT 180 fitment coming along?

We just finished the B5 A4/Passat, which is now in production/sale. Next up is the TT180.....We're hoping to release it before the end of the year.


----------



## .:TSRthis (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

tyrolkid
-- This coming christmas,I hope you have a christmas special on the tyrolsport smic


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_
We just finished the B5 A4/Passat, which is now in production/sale. Next up is the TT180.....We're hoping to release it before the end of the year.









I just got a 2001 A4. Any discounts for repeat customers?


----------



## RoBeRt_68 (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: (JettaRed)*

http://www.ecodetuning.com/sho...&c=85
common guys drop the price







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoBeRt_68* »_ http://www.ecodetuning.com/sho...&c=85
common guys drop the price







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'm in the same boat. For the same performance there are cheaper alternatives that are also proven. Group Buy! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (RoBeRt_68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoBeRt_68* »_ http://www.ecodetuning.com/sho...&c=85
common guys drop the price







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

That looks like a Forge SMIC......


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_I'm in the same boat. For the same performance there are cheaper alternatives that are also proven. Group Buy! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

If there is an SMIC that has the same performance as ours, yet is cheaper, and proven through dyno, road, and customer satisfaction, you should buy it!


----------



## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

Hmmm, was wondering about the "Boost Factory!" SMIC, made by KOOTER? Although "hand made" it seems to offer about the same performance? It's $500.00.
It doesn't look as nice as yours, but once under the fender, who cares?








Dave


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_That looks like a Forge SMIC......

I don't know but in that link all I see is a Greddy Front Mount for $709.95.


----------



## beachball6 (Apr 22, 2003)

*Re: (GT-ER)*

yes but look at the over heating issues w/ the FMIC. thats why im not getting one and im trying to get a SMIC. cuz ill be living in texas. thats my reasoning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
shawn


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

Quit being so cheap! I paid full price and so should everyone else! (At least the first time. Now, how about that return customer loyalty everyone pays employee price purchase rebate discount program?







)


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_Quit being so cheap! I paid full price and so should everyone else!

yup. if you cant afford it, then go work on your financial success. They arent gonna lower that price until the sales slow down, and they have no problems with that right now. on a side note, if i ever sell my car in 2-3 years, ill take off my tyrolsport and sell it with a $100 discount off whatever price it has then. and it will sell........


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (beachball6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beachball6* »_yes but look at the over heating issues w/ the FMIC. thats why im not getting one and im trying to get a SMIC. cuz ill be living in texas. thats my reasoning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
shawn

I don't know but if my car overheated I would not begin to think the problem is my front mount because I have neve heard of them being so restrictive that a car would over heat because of them. Hell, I had a front mount on my Grand Prix and the temperature was just as cool as ever.


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_yup. if you cant afford it, then go work on your financial success. They arent gonna lower that price until the sales slow down, and they have no problems with that right now. on a side note, if i ever sell my car in 2-3 years, ill take off my tyrolsport and sell it with a $100 discount off whatever price it has then. and it will sell........

So if I can't afford a Dahlback engine then I should not mod my car and get a better job?


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

shoudlnt buy anything you dont have cash for.. i made that mistake for years. now im still paying for it, literally.. i havnt charged anything in a couple years now, and i still got a lot of credit card debt.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_Hell, I had a front mount on my Grand Prix and the temperature was just as cool as ever. 

GTP?


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_GTP?









No, GT... I just added a turbo to it. 3.8L V6 Turbo


















_Modified by GT-ER at 5:11 PM 9-6-2005_


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (GT-ER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT-ER* »_No, GT... I just added a turbo to it. 3.8L V6 Turbo









Really? Sort of like a pseudo GNX? That's cool... any specs? Sorry if it's off topic.


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Really? Sort of like a pseudo GNX? That's cool... any specs? Sorry if it's off topic.









TO4 + 11psi = about 350whp even though I never got to take to a dyno but it would smoke second gear real good and it was automatic on 18"s and it would also smoke my GTI real bad. a FWD GN hehehe http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by GT-ER at 5:25 PM 9-6-2005_


----------



## meaculpa20v (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (GT-ER)*

Anything infront of the radiator will potentially easily over heat the car. Under usual conditions it would probably be okay, but if it were extra hot out, or if one was driving up hill or down hill (using the engine to slow the car) for a period of time if there was a FMIC making heat it would over heat the car very quickly. I suggest if you drive in those conditions often to use a SMIC rather then a FMIC. this goes for tracking the car for long period of time too. Short runs like dragging or SCCA events where you are going just 2-3 laps it's okay.
This is why they tell you to turn off your A/C when driving under certain conditions. The A/C condesnor acts just like an intercooler, it transfers heat, and it is usually placed infront or near the radiator. It is much smaller the most FMIC yet it can make a car over heat in no time. 
What I learned at school.


----------



## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: (WeedWolfie420)*

Still waiting to see logs from someone with APR Stg III or III+.
I have a Beetle and have Stage III+ ready to install. I REALLY DON'T want a FMIC with the heat here in Florida... primarily because the radiator and FMIC have to share the same air with my bumper. 
This thing sounds impressive... just need confirmation that it can handle 350whp.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (WeedWolfie420)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeedWolfie420* »_ Anything infront of the radiator will potentially easily over heat the car. Under usual conditions it would probably be okay, but if it were extra hot out, or if one was driving up hill or down hill (using the engine to slow the car) for a period of time if there was a FMIC making heat it would over heat the car very quickly. I suggest if you drive in those conditions often to use a SMIC rather then a FMIC. this goes for tracking the car for long period of time too. Short runs like dragging or SCCA events where you are going just 2-3 laps it's okay.
This is why they tell you to turn off your A/C when driving under certain conditions. The A/C condesnor acts just like an intercooler, it transfers heat, and it is usually placed infront or near the radiator. It is much smaller the most FMIC yet it can make a car over heat in no time. 
What I learned at school. 









I have yet to see a PROPER WORKING car overheat because of an intercooler... here in PR we have 90-100deg heat 365 days a year... no cold winters down here.... and NEVER have I heard of such a thing. Usually cars or made so that there radiators can EASILY cool the car down without any trouble. If this is a problem for an MK4 ( which would be new to me ) then that really shows how much VW knows what there doing.








Hell, I see some kids down here with intercoolers larger than the actual radiators and they have no problems. And if a car overheats because of the A/C then there is something wrong with it. 


_Modified by GT-ER at 1:46 AM 9-7-2005_


----------



## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: (GT-ER)*

In high hp cars under road racing condtions engine overheating can become very much a reality when using a FMIC. FMICs are avoided for just this reason and so side mounts are the IC of choice. For drag racing FMICs or BIG turbo no IC is the way to go.


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_In high hp cars under road racing condtions engine overheating can become very much a reality when using a FMIC. FMICs are avoided for just this reason and so side mounts are the IC of choice. For drag racing FMICs or BIG turbo no IC is the way to go.

Yes, this I can agree on... but the condition of circuit or prolonged racing is very stressful on a car and I WOULD recommend a SMIC no questions asked. Hell, bone stock they can overheat.


----------



## GT-ER (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (w00sh!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *w00sh!* »_
This thing sounds impressive... just need confirmation that it can handle 350whp.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









I wouldn't doubt it considering the wonders I've seen with the stock one.


----------



## meaculpa20v (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (GT-ER)*

Yeah, you're right, most new cars should be able to handle FMIC without over heating under almost all conditions. But After a few years of abuse, maybe not anymore. Why take the chance?? haha


----------



## golf2k87 (Jul 11, 2001)

*Re: (WeedWolfie420)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WeedWolfie420* »_ Yeah, you're right, most new cars should be able to handle FMIC without over heating under almost all conditions. But After a few years of abuse, maybe not anymore. Why take the chance?? haha 









Just a FYI, I've had a FMIC for 3 of the 4 years I've had my car and one of those years I lived in Arizona. I've never had an overheating problem whatsoever and use my A/C when it is 80 degrees or higher, which is quite often in So Cal. I am not trying to bag on tyrol's smic because I'm planning to get one soon anyways...I like the sleeper look







.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (golf2k87)*

I ran my car for 2 hours at limerock on an 85-90 Degree day. 4500 - 7200 rpm over and over and over. Temp needle never moved a tick. Gas gauge plummeted to the tune of 6 miles per gallon. EVOMS FMIC, APR STG III
I don't think overheating is really an issue unless the core is super thick, which won't really fit anyways. 
The SMIC looks like a great piece, but don't be scared about FMIC's


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

can there be any improvements made to the stock shroud and/or area just behind the front bumper to get more air to this UGSMIC?


----------



## silverbullet420 (May 21, 2004)

*Re: (.:TSRthis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:TSRthis* »_tyrolkid
-- This coming christmas,I hope you have a christmas special on the tyrolsport smic









great idea http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Ricky_Rockstah (Aug 3, 2003)

i wish this had been released when I bought my FMIC. I bought the evo motorsports one and it's alright but this seems perfect for my sleeper ride... even if the FMIC does looks sick behind the Votex bumper


----------



## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: (Ricky_Rockstah)*

The FMIC/cooling issue is HUGE for a Beetle. Look at the front bumper of my Beetle below. (I swapped a Turbo S bumper on my vert).
A GTI has a seperate grill to help cool the radiator. The FMIC is mounted lower in the bumper. On a Beetle, the ONLY opening in the front bumper must cool the radiator and the FMIC. If the FMIC blocks that opening, the radiator can end up starved of air flow.








Page 13 PwN3d










_Modified by w00sh! at 12:30 AM 9-8-2005_


_Modified by w00sh! at 9:35 PM 9-10-2005_


----------



## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

installed my Tyrol SMIC a few weeks ago. Its an impressive peice that truly is massive, it's also a perfect fit and the welding looks like a stack of dimes. Top notch.
The only thing and by reading other peoples comments in this thread is that I think I might have a problem. The car pulled hard and ran fine prior to the install.
After finishing the install I noticed the car ran smoother, I thought maybe thats just what the smic did. 
but after a few weeks I begin to notice that the car just doesn't have the oomph it used to. Where did I mess up. I've checked the map sensor which is screwed in nice and tight as are the hoses on both sides of the IC. 
I'm stumped


----------



## Blue.Jester.02Gti (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

check the hoses for leaks, make sure they are all on securely http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif but from what i understand there is always a pressure drop (more area for the air to fill) when upgrading to a larger FMIC or SMIC so maybe this is what you are experiencing


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

1. It's hotter now.
2. You're used to the performance improvement.
Do you have a boost gauge? Are you still boosting like you were?



_Modified by JettaRed at 8:34 PM 9-10-2005_


----------



## vdubguy97 (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Good1Spd* »_installed my Tyrol SMIC a few weeks ago. Its an impressive peice that truly is massive, it's also a perfect fit and the welding looks like a stack of dimes. Top notch.
The only thing and by reading other peoples comments in this thread is that I think I might have a problem. The car pulled hard and ran fine prior to the install.
After finishing the install I noticed the car ran smoother, I thought maybe thats just what the smic did. 
but after a few weeks I begin to notice that the car just doesn't have the oomph it used to. Where did I mess up. I've checked the map sensor which is screwed in nice and tight as are the hoses on both sides of the IC. 
I'm stumped










Just installed mine today to and noticed the same thing. smoother driveability but just doesnt have the ooomph, I checked allt the hoses and map sensor for leaks, none were found. I also lost about 2lbs of boost







....but the car runs really good and never losses power which is definetly awesome. Quality of build is amazing


----------



## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

thanks for the replies. I don't have a boost guage so i'm going by butt dyno. 
Out here in Orange county it hasn't been that hot probably in the 70's to low 80's really not hot at all. Back home in ct i could understand but out here its pretty comfortable so definately not severe heatsoak weather.
I just re-installed the whole smic and checked the hoses out. They look alright to me. I'm going to take a break and check again before I put the bumper back on. 
I'll go for a ride and let you all know.


----------



## kleinergti1 (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

I have mine sitting here for about a month now so i am going to try and take some time away from parting and put this on my car this week. products looks great though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

re-installed the smic and my boost issues are gone. pulls hard. Yay.


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Good1Spd* »_re-installed the smic and my boost issues are gone. pulls hard. Yay.

so what was it?


----------



## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

I really have no idea I just reinstalled it and went over the hoses very carefully, tightening the clamps and hoping for the best.
One of those things I guess. :shrug:


----------



## -KIX- (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: (w00sh!)*

On my bug, I really did my homework and even took appart the whole front, to see if I copul d put the Evo FMIC, it was a PITA, major cutting and blocking the front air flow to the radiator.
I even considered going the custom route, had a Forge for testing, but it was dificult to put and the air path was even worse that the original one...
Let me remind everyone in Mexico temps over the 90 to 95 all year and th ealtitude in most of the country is over 5000 feet (7600 where I live) so thin hot air, and you get into trouble real fast.
Any mishap in the cooling system and its tow time.
So what I did was putting the TT vent, making a low scoop for fron air ( just half an inch with screen to avoid stones and such) and bought a 12 amp hi speed 10 blade fan at Jegs a very thin one and put it behind the Stock IC, with a sensor that starts it aotomatically if the temp of the Ic goes over 60C, If I make 2 laps at the track at high speed IT NEVER COMES ON, after I get it out of the track it starts real quick and stays on for more than 3 minutes... If I go back in as soon as I get to over 45 mph it stops, so I guess for US people with K03S and smaller the stock one is good enough (IF you are Rolling), Obviosly in stpo and go traffic a larger IC will get colder as soon as you hit 15 to 25 Mph, where a smaller SMIC will NEVER.
If I ever buy a BT I will def have to buy a Cup bumper replica or cut my front because surely this SMIC will heat soak and it will be difficult to cool it down even at over 40mph speeds...


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

how much psi do you think that fan pulls that yu put behind the SMIC??


----------



## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

a fan thats pretty wild got any pictures to illustrate.
Also I never bothered to modfiy my (im at a loss for words right now) the scoop that flows air from the bumper to the stock SMIC. Has anybody done this. I havn't seen any discussion in this thread and was wondering the pros, cons etc.


----------



## -KIX- (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

Well its not that difficult to do, basically It take a good 3 hours if alone and 2 if someone helps you.
First I bought a fan at jegs.com, my 2 main concerns were space (it had to be Thin) and it had to be as efficient and NON blocking of airflow in case of a non operative fan.







cost=around 100 bucks..the brand is permacool
19122	12" Standard Electric Fan	
Mounting Area Req'd:	13-3/4" x 12-1/2" x 2-3/4"
Est. CFM: 1250
Motor RPM: 3000
AMP Draw: 6.0
Fuse Size:
30 AMP
Also those guys sell the termostats and some other parts for controling it, in my case I made a custom thermostat and that way I could "feel" the Fan working if the exit temp reaches 60C, I made a lot of testing and if I put it below 40C it will get into working real fast and keep at it while in stop and go traffic, also If I put anything over 60C and it wont be noticeable... granted 60C is nothing to be happy about if you have a LARGE intercooler but for this tiny on and the Super samll size of the BEETLE front fender I think its a good compromise also I amde sure the intake has put perfectly and sealed. the lower part has a half an inch vent so it "scoops" some air into the IC and due to the very thin nature of the Permacool fan I still have almost one inch between the Fan and the TT fender vent.
Her are some pics...
































Sorry to highjack This thread, but anyways fitting the Tyrol SMIC would be next to imposibel in a beetle, and in my humble even if posible the airflow would be real bad due to the DARN front bumper designed in hell.
Cheers.


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

oh i didnt realize you meant a HUGE functional fan, thats awesome work bro.


----------



## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: (-KIX-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-KIX-* »_Sorry to highjack This thread, but anyways fitting the Tyrol SMIC would be next to imposibel in a beetle, and in my humble even if posible the airflow would be real bad due to the DARN front bumper designed in hell.
Cheers.









I agree with you in reference to the standard Beetle bumper... but the Beetle TurboS bumper should work fine.


----------



## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

holy shnikies


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

APR Stage III+
GHL 3" CAT
Techtonics 2.5" Cat-Back
K&N Panel Filter
Tyrolsport UG SMIC








I logged over a 30 degree increase in intake temperatures on the first run alone. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

LOL!! What?!?! Over a stock intercooler???


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_APR Stage III+
GHL 3" CAT
Techtonics 2.5" Cat-Back
K&N Panel Filter
Tyrolsport UG SMIC[
] 
I logged over a 30 degree increase in intake temperatures on the first run alone. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
 You sure there was enough airflow to the UG SMIC?? Take the car on the road and log the IAT ona hard pull and see , this way you know you have enough airflow to the UG SMIC,







Bob.G


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_LOL!! What?!?! Over a stock intercooler???
I beileve he means from first pull to second pull


----------



## Wehrmact_Saito (Aug 20, 2005)

*Re: (w00sh!)*

I dont think airflow on the intercooler will be that AFFECTED... I have had plenty of front mounts... in my time and never had an issue with heat problems only time i ever did was when i ran my srswap with no fan for month or two and even then it only got hot in traffic


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

278whp/284wtq is not good for a Stage3+ http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ You sure there was enough airflow to the UG SMIC?? Take the car on the road and log the IAT ona hard pull and see , this way you know you have enough airflow to the UG SMIC,







Bob.G

There was a large turbine style fan right in front of the SMIC.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_278whp/284wtq is not good for a Stage3+ http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Nope.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
There was a large turbine style fan right in front of the SMIC.
Im sure there was , i went threw something similar and when you put your hand in the EXACT spot there was LITTLE to NO air flowing to the SMIC. Do what i said and do a hard pull on the street and log the IAT and see. Your low power is from timing pull im sure . I run a stage stage 3 + , 303WHP on pump here







Bob.G


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Per rracerguy717's request, here's a few runs on the interstate. It was pretty cool outside as you can see from the initial intake temps:
http://mysite.verizon.net/ryan...4.csv
And here's the log from the first dyno run:
http://mysite.verizon.net/ryan...2.csv
Also, I should mention that my 25psi spike is now missing in action the last few days.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_I logged over a 30 degree increase in intake temperatures on the first run alone. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

If I'm reading this correctly, you are saying that your IAT increased by 30deg Celcius over the course of the first run, from start to finish? If so, that would correspond exactly with the testing we did on a regular Stage 3. Here is the graph we posted:


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

You guys do realize that the compressor discharge temp is like 200F when you run 20 Lbs of boost. It's not going to hold a steady intake temp, i don't care how big the IC gets.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (enginerd)*

Here are some intake temps logs on a APR Stage 3+ with an FMIC, 100-140mph run:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2160906


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_If I'm reading this correctly, you are saying that your IAT increased by 30deg Celcius over the course of the first run, from start to finish? If so, that would correspond exactly with the testing we did on a regular Stage 3. Here is the graph we posted:

Out of curiosity, what was the ambient temp during your testing? It was above 90 degrees for my dyno which may be the reason I dynoed so low. I'm not that familiar with dynoing a car, but don't Dynojets typically give higher readings? That would mean that my car dynoed even lower than most Stage III+ cars?


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
Out of curiosity, what was the ambient temp during your testing? It was above 90 degrees for my dyno which may be the reason I dynoed so low. I'm not that familiar with dynoing a car, but don't Dynojets typically give higher readings? That would mean that my car dynoed even lower than most Stage III+ cars?

Our ambient temps were in the 40-50s or so IIRC. Dynojets are basically the "standard", Mustangs read a bit lower. If you're off by 20-30hp from the stated claims, I would begin by looking for boost leaks and fault codes.....at your power level, even the stock IC wouldn't make you lose 30hp on one dyno run compared to an upgraded IC....


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_Our ambient temps were in the 40-50s or so IIRC. Dynojets are basically the "standard", Mustangs read a bit lower. If you're off by 20-30hp from the stated claims, I would begin by looking for boost leaks and fault codes.....at your power level, even the stock IC wouldn't make you lose 30hp on one dyno run compared to an upgraded IC....

Yeah, I'm not blaming the SMIC because it cooled down almost immediately after each run. It's doing its job. No fault codes... I checked last night. However, I'm going to pressurize the intake and check for leaks. I'm wondering if I have a leak and the turbo's basically getting overworked to reach the specified boost levels. Mayube the additional heat is responable for the loss of power. I compared my dyno to others and it looks identical to others untill the higher RPMs. I'm starting to lean more towards the 90 degree ambient temperature that we had. I dunno.


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

here is a graph of your .csv file (thnx nerd)








uhm, looks like your timing needs to be bumped up top to get more powa http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Kilmer)*

So basically the high ambient temperature could have been responsible for the pull in timing?


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_So basically the high ambient temperature could have been responsible for the pull in timing?

yes, but I was refering to your timing advance


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Kilmer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kilmer* »_yes, but I was refering to your timing advance









You're saying that it needs to be advanced. I'm just wondering that if the intake temps would have been lower, would the timing have been advanced?


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_You're saying that it needs to be advanced. I'm just wondering that if the intake temps would have been lower, would the timing have been advanced?

Yes. Timing is adjusted based on intake temps. This does not show up as "timing pull" it is simply the output from an equation that has a reduction in timing vs AIT.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Yes. Timing is adjusted based on intake temps. This does not show up as "timing pull" it is simply the output from an equation that has a reduction in timing vs AIT.

I didn't notice this until the guy was pulling my car onto the dyno, but it's running hella rich as well. Nice black puff of smoke when revving it and some accumulation of unburnt fuel on my rear glass. I get some backfiring coming off of part throttle too. I wonder if that would contribute to the pull in timing.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (ruso)*

Sounds like you might have a dying MAF or 02 that hasn't triggered a fault code yet......


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

His g/s logs look very good. The AFR from logging the o2 looks nice and steady ~12.5.


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_Sounds like you might have a dying MAF or 02 that hasn't triggered a fault code yet......

this is what I suspected as well, hence why i asked for his logs

_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_His g/s logs look very good. The AFR from logging the o2 looks nice and steady ~12.5. 

this is why your graph helped us out...









RUSO-why don't you go vag some more logs tonight? So, that we can see if the maf and 02 readings are consistent...also, it is rather humid here and you did drive like ~40 minutes to the dyno and then pretty much straight on the rollers correct?


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Kilmer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kilmer* »_RUSO-why don't you go vag some more logs tonight? So, that we can see if the maf and 02 readings are consistent...also, it is rather humid here and you did drive like ~40 minutes to the dyno and then pretty much straight on the rollers correct?

I have some stuff to attend to this evening but I'll try to do some later on. What blocks should I log?
And the dyno was about an hour away but I really didn't even get into boost on the way there. Also, it was on a lift for an hour before with a fan blowing on the engine while they attempted to install another bung on the downpipe. It turns out they couldn't get my downpipe off so I said effit. However, it didn't sit on the dyno idling for about 10-15 miuntes while they hunted for a tach signal and installed the tailpipe sniffer.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_His g/s logs look very good. The AFR from logging the o2 looks nice and steady ~12.5. 

Good call. Maybe a bum coolant temp sensor then? If the hatch has soot on it and he's seeing visible black smoke, something is definitely not right.....


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

Just put a new green top in last week.
A/F looked good dispite using an exhaust sniffer. There wasn't any visible soot left on the ground after three runs (downturn exhaust). 
I'm going to pressure test the boost lines this weekend. If there is a boost leak, the turbo is working harder to reach spec boost which will increase AITs in the process. I know I'm searching for answers but hopefully this process of elimination will tell.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

What do your fuel trims look like? That's how I check for boost/vac leaks.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_What do your fuel trims look like? That's how I check for boost/vac leaks. 

Not sure. I'll do a few logs this evening for o2, timing, MAF, and fuel trims. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif What blocks should I do? It seems like every ECU code has different measuring block location.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

Ok, 3rd gear run from 2500 rpm to about 6500 rpm. Wasn't sure what to log but I just went ahead and did what we have all been discussing:


----------



## Blue.Jester.02Gti (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (ruso)*

you should have logged 031 for the lambda values


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Blue.Jester.02Gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blue.Jester.02Gti* »_you should have logged 031 for the lambda values 

Ah, for o2? Well, between the sniffer reading on the actual dyno and my o2 readings from the log of the dyno, I'd say the o2 is working right. I wish I could log more than 3 blocks at a time.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Ok, 3rd gear run from 2500 rpm to about 6500 rpm. Wasn't sure what to log but I just went ahead and did what we have all been discussing:
[
 Timing looks low, this is 93 oct program? , looks like your runing lean from looking at your 02 sensor reading . You check for vacuem leaks? make sure that the vac hoses to FPR are not leaking . Bob.G


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ Timing looks low, this is 93 oct program? , looks like your runing lean from looking at your 02 sensor reading . You check for vacuem leaks? make sure that the vac hoses to FPR are not leaking . Bob.G

You mean the o2 sensor reading on the dyno graph, the log from the dyno, or the most recent log? I didn't log block 31 on the most recent logs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_
I didn't log block 31 on the most recent logs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
my bad when i saw " fuel trim" i thought this wa block 31 , my bad.but the timing still looks low , you double checked that its in 93 program?







Bob.G


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_my bad when i saw " fuel trim" i thought this wa block 31 , my bad.but the timing still looks low , you double checked that its in 93 program?







Bob.G

Yeah, I have stock, 93, 100, and valet loaded in. Don't ask me why I have the first and last loaded in.







I wonder what else could cause the low timing. Anything else I should look for?


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (ruso)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ruso* »_Ok, 3rd gear run from 2500 rpm to about 6500 rpm. Wasn't sure what to log but I just went ahead and did what we have all been discussing:










Your IAT chart is almost a mirror image of the graph we posted earlier.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_Your IAT chart is almost a mirror image of the graph we posted earlier. 

I know... isn't that weird?


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

Yoru block 32 fuel trim is sitting at ~5% id say that's normal. I wouldn't worry about leaks. I would take a look at your knock voltages though. 
Bob g can you run a timing log form your car? Shoudl be about the same right?
Btw -Bob, looks like we are going to have a wet one for limerock tomorrow. Im getting some new wiper blades and throwing on some rain-x for the occasion. I picked up a sweet camera mount, and I'm trying to bring a the big tent. so it should be interesting. See you there.


----------



## corrado94 (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_. 
Bob g can you run a timing log form your car? Shoudl be about the same right?

If i have time over the weekend i will .







Bob.G


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Yoru block 32 fuel trim is sitting at ~5% id say that's normal. I wouldn't worry about leaks. I would take a look at your knock voltages though. 

Btw -Bob, looks like we are going to have a wet one for limerock tomorrow. Im getting some new wiper blades and throwing on some rain-x for the occasion. I picked up a sweet camera mount, and I'm trying to bring a the big tent. so it should be interesting. See you there. 
 Just everytime i go to limerock it rains







, But this thing handles even better in the rain with these f-1, cant wait and hopefully will only get a sprinkle on and off during the day .







Bob.G


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Yoru block 32 fuel trim is sitting at ~5% id say that's normal. I wouldn't worry about leaks. I would take a look at your knock voltages though. 
Bob g can you run a timing log form your car? Shoudl be about the same right?

Yeah, I think it's supposed to be no more than +/- 10% at idle or on throttle.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

My idle is like 1% and my full load is ~5-8%


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_My idle is like 1% and my full load is ~5-8%

Just checked that log and my idle is at -2.8%


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

You may have a slight Vac leak, but I wouldn't get too excited about it.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_You may have a slight Vac leak, but I wouldn't get too excited about it. 

Yeah, my gauge seems to be hovering around -19 and -20 in. Hg. I'm going to check over some of the lines tonight. Could any of you Stage III+ guys log your timing so I can compare it to mine?


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## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

On a side note.. Your intake temps are pretty damn hot. 62deg = 143.60F To give you an idea of how hot that is.... after we pressure test the assembly and we place our intercoolers on the drying rack, we have 150degF heat blowing across the core face to dry it off.
We have to do something about that. On a 90deg day, one of our dealers logged IC outlet temp of 100.8 degF. Thats only +12% or 10.8deg temp rise. However, he did not provide an inlet temp, but I can assure you the tiny stock POS SRT-4 turbochargers pump out a lot of heat. Think we can stuff a 3" thick x 24.5" wide x 10" tall core in there?

_Modified by Roger Hupp at 3:55 PM 9-15-2005_


_Modified by Roger Hupp at 3:58 PM 9-15-2005_


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Roger Hupp* »_On a 90deg day, one of our dealers logged IC outlet temp of 100.8 degF. Thats only +12% or 10.8deg temp rise. Think we can stuf a 3" thick x 24.5" wide x 10" tall core in there?

Was that the SRT-4 unit? I seriously doubt I could fit that size core in the without giving the car a facelift.


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## Roger Hupp (Feb 2, 2004)

"Was that the SRT-4 unit?" 
Yes.
Form following function. Find a bumper cover that will allow the use of one. As long as its not one of those largemouth bass ***** looking things.
Height, it should be no problem as a vertical flow IC is about 11" tall.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Roger Hupp)*

I just got back from lunch... I'm still not spiking to 25 psi like I was the first few days of having the kit installed and it's barely holding 20 psi to redline. I'm going to have to go ahead and pressurize the plumbing this weekend and check for leaks.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

Sorry to say but the think may be learning and dropping the boost down. I use to get nasty spikes whenever I reset my batt or when it was cold. The requested boost is actually quite low with the III+.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Sorry to say but the think may be learning and dropping the boost down. I use to get nasty spikes whenever I reset my batt or when it was cold. The requested boost is actually quite low with the III+. 

Maybe I'll reset the ECU and see if it comes back. Something just isn't right.


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

On a side note, which gear should I be dynoing my car?


----------



## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

5 spd 02+ are typically in 3rd, 5 spd pre 02 is typically 4th gear. ie the gear closest to 1:1.


----------



## meaculpa20v (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (rex_racer)*

Hm interesting I didn't know there was a gear ratio change between different 5 speeds of different years. That would effect mileage


----------



## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (WeedWolfie420)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (ruso)*

Might be I should get around to loggin the timing and knock and boost again on my 3+ since I fiked the broken hose on my boost guage. The hose was attached to a T by the FPR. I am unsure as to what effect that will have on the car, but it can not be good to make a closed system suddly open to the atmosphere. Damn cheap hose from a shop that has done a lot of cheap things to my car. Will not be going back there. I will go log today, currntly 13C out, so should get good boost and timing numbers. I will post the results later.
And on a side not, my resonator cracked. I have no luck at all. Now my car sounds like a bad Sunfire job, with a hint of metal rattle to boot... Took picture and hopefully that is all I need for warranty so I can weld it in the mean time.
Dave


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (ZinK)*

Well, here it goes. APR 3+ 93 octane program with 94 octane in the tank on an 18C day 481m above sea level.
Mods are in my sig. I am having some issues as you can see. My car was stolen and recovered 4 days later, in 93 octane mode















The engine has good compression in all cylinders and seems to still pull like a bugger. Just have some mine low rev hiccups now that I had not noticed before.
My 032 readings were -2.8 and +7.8 after doing these pulls. 
First I will start with the Intake Temp and MAF (006 and 002):

I notice that the MAF is lower than expected on a 3+ system. The intake temp though looks quite good.
Next is the knock and timing from 011 and 020. I first have no idea what a good or bad knock is. Secondly, i notice the timing is being pulled a lot!!


Lastly is the boost and fuel trims from 115 and 031. Ambient was 940mbar. Again, the actual boost is struggling to keep up to the requested. It might be that I put in an old forge 007 that I have not replaced the O-rings on in about 3 years when I was trying to find my boost gage leak problem. Turns out it was the line from the boost gage T to the FPR so I just have not put the stock DV back yet.

Also, the AF seems to try but never actually match the requested uber close. Or am I seeing things?

Readiness was ALL set when I started these tests. The ONLY fault codes I keep getting are random misfires in cyl 1 and 2, used to only be 2 until i swapped 1 and 2 coils.
Please help me vortex-wan-gurunoby, you are my only hope!!

Dave


----------



## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

I'm having a problem with my tyrolsport smic.
I installed it about a month ago and took it for a test drive. The car seemed slower, but I thought it was just my imagination, and perhaps that the smic smoothed things out a bit. 
Not confident that I had a problem I drove around for another week and just felt like something was amiss.
So I re-installed the tyrolsport all over again, made sure all of my connections were nice and tight with no boost leaks etc. 
and the same results.
So finaly this week, trying to solve the problem one and for all, I re-installed my stock smic and the car is once again a firecracker.
it pulls hard with strong boost, just like it used to. It feels like i've been re-chipped. 
I have no idea what could be wrong with my tyrolsport however, the welds all look absolutely fantastic, as does the rest of the unit. I looked it over carefully and couldn't really find any flaws. I'm stumped.
How could an intercooler go wrong?


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

no way anyone can tell anything if you didnt take various logs.


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## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

well I know it's not the most sophisticated equipment but with the tyrol in there doing a 0-60 sprint took forever and didn't even so much as make the tires flinch.
with stock smic back in, tires spin, wheel hop is present and so is the esp light. not to mention the car revving away and boosting like mad.
Also on the highway doing a 6th gear pull from 70 and watching it climb to 80 took alot longer with the tyrol than with the stock.
:shrug:


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

i put some actual thought into this for a while. The biggest thing you can be seeing is a looser bottom end. Which could give the effect of a loss of torque. Much like people imagine after putting on a CAI. I like a tight pedal feel, and anytime I open up any part of my airway, my pedal gets a bit "looser". I do know what you mean. I didnt notice any power increase to be perfectly honest. But this isnt a hp or tq adder. This is only a stability mod. Even on hot days, I cant say I noticed anything huge. But my logs did show 15-18C reduction in my air intake temps. Is that worth $750 on my particular car? Debateable. Sometimes I think about putting my stock one back in. But I'll hate myself next Summer when we're back to 80-90F days. If I do sell it, it wont be for much of a loss, a lot of people would be glad to get one for $100-$150 less than new price. Ive only had mine in a few months. But theres one catch. I have the smaller MAS sensor. so I hammered in their adapter into the MAS hole. That metal adapter ring is not ever coming out. I guaruntee it. It was way too tight. So mine would have to go to someone with a 2002.5 or later model, and even then, no guaruntees. Supposedly, those models came with the smaller MAS sensor in the stock intercooler.


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## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

yea I know what you mean about the low end. That's why I kept it on the car for so long just trying to feel it out. The car seemed to have no power until about 4,500 and even then it was lacking.
The thing I can't get over is how the turbo and all of its associated whooshing and whistling was so much louder with the Tyrol on the car. I just can't help but wonder if its got a leak. With the stock one back on the pedal felt torquey and "boost-y" with some really peaky push you back in your seat power. It wasn't nearly as loud either.


----------



## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

Do you have a boost gauge? If not, put one on and see what you're boosting.
BTW did you remove the cotton packing material from inside the intercooler?
(j/k







)


_Modified by JettaRed at 1:20 PM 10-2-2005_


----------



## Pass18t (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *placenta* »_ But theres one catch. I have the smaller MAS sensor. so I hammered in their adapter into the MAS hole. That metal adapter ring is not ever coming out. I guaruntee it. It was way too tight. So mine would have to go to someone with a 2002.5 or later model, and even then, no guaruntees. Supposedly, those models came with the smaller MAS sensor in the stock intercooler.

Whoever buys it could just switch to the smaller bung sensor, no difference in signal or connector. Just the o-ring fitting is different.


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

*Re: (Pass18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pass18t* »_
Whoever buys it could just switch to the smaller bung sensor, no difference in signal or connector. Just the o-ring fitting is different.

thats true. didnt think of that.


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## Checkpoynt Charlie (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: (placenta)*


_Quote »_BTW did you remove the cotton packing material from inside the intercooler?








That'd do it, check it out 1spd and make sure there isn't anything inside the intercooler.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: (-Kage-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Kage-* »_







That'd do it, check it out 1spd and make sure there isn't anything inside the intercooler. 

Whoa! I was just kidding!







Sorry!
But, if you are really loosing power, something may be clogging the IC.


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## Checkpoynt Charlie (Aug 4, 2004)

Hahah, glad to hear they don't put any packaging in there. I've been following this thread since page 1 since this looks to be the best side mount intercooler upgrade out there and some day one may find it's way on my car. Hearing about having a problem from all these people surprises me a little bit, considering it's such a simple bolt on.
1Spd- Whistling would be a sure sign of a leak, get those logs done and a boost gauge to find out what's wrong.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (-Kage-)*

A boost gauge is not, I repeat, not a good method of finding a boost leak! If the ECU is specfyfing 20 psi and there is indeed a leak, the N75 will keep the wastegate closed until the turbo reaches the specified boost. So if there is a leak, the turbo will have to work harder to reach that boost which will generate more heat in the process. You will still see that boost level on your gauge.


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## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

thats the thing there's only a leak with the tyrol installed. the stock side mount has no excess sounds and the turbo spools before 3 grand like normal. With the tyrol on it came on around 4 grand but quickly tappered off.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

Have you checked the TyrolSport unit for cracked welds, etc? I know it's unlikely but a friend of mine had a weld bust open on his Galant VR4 FMIC.


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## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

I looked it over closely before installing it and then again just now and it looks like a stack of dimes. i mean the quality looks top notch. Unless something is wrong on the inside of the unit because the outside looks great. Unless i'm supposed to be looking for something of pin hole size.


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## Checkpoynt Charlie (Aug 4, 2004)

Fill it up with some water and see what happens. If there's anything wrong with the unit itself, water will leak out. Just be sure to flush it out right away with compressed air afterwards.
Even though you said the hoses are clamped down tight, there is a possibility of a improper seal that repeats itself every time.


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## Good1Spd (Oct 12, 2003)

what exactly do you mean by an improper seal.


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*

Emails and IMs responded. We were away at a track event in Canada for a few days.


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## Illegal Gardener (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: (Good1Spd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Good1Spd* »_I looked it over closely before installing it and then again just now and it looks like a stack of dimes. i mean the quality looks top notch. Unless something is wrong on the inside of the unit because the outside looks great. Unless i'm supposed to be looking for something of pin hole size.
what you're describing does sound like a boost leak. i would suggest using a leak tester.... which is basically a barbed fitting to hook up a compressor (same nozzle you fill up your tires with) that's hooked up to a roughly 2" pipe, and has a silicone connector on it. take your charge pipe off the 90deg elbow behind the valve cover, hook this up and turn it on. if there's a leak, it will scream, and you'll know right where it is.
edit: i built one for my buddy using about 7 or 8 bucks worth of parts from home depot, spent 30 seconds with a drill to tap the port for the compressor nozzle and another few minutes using jb weld to seal everything up. it's a total piece of cake and requires basically no tools. if you dont have a compressor, go to a local gas station / repair shop and use theirs










_Modified by Illegal Gardener at 10:23 PM 10-3-2005_


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## Illegal Gardener (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: (Illegal Gardener)*









this is not my pic, but we did just about the same exact thing.


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (rex_racer)*

Back in stock again for those who were waiting.


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_Back in stock again for those who were waiting.
















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## back2dub (Apr 30, 2004)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

I'm like a little kid waiting for Santa.
Go Brown Go


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