# Help w/ Timing Belt Replacement!!!



## camerow (Dec 28, 2009)

Ok, here goes. I couldn't find anything in the search really specific to my problem. I've found all the general stuff on replacing timing belts in the DIY and stuff like that. I replaced my timing belt today, getting all the timing marks to where I thought they should go (using research on here and the Bentley). The fly wheel, I was told, should be lined up to the notch for ignition timing and the dimple kind of thing 6 degrees or so away when putting on the timing belt, I think that may be the problem, I think I may have to line it up with the notch. 
The car is kind of starting, I can turn it over (kind of) and it will idle for maybe 3-5 seconds at under 300 RPMs and than shuts down. The car ran with the old timing belt, but it was slipping terribly (could move it just by wrenching on it).
Here are some pictures to give you an idea of what I lined up, as well as the spark plug lines, which I believe are right, but if not tell me! If any other pictures are needed to help I can post em up.
































Anything helps! I just want to get my car running again. This is my first try on a timing belt, so sorry if I'm doing something stupid, or not doing something obvious. I'm trying to learn. Learn me good!








Thanks! (and sorry about the huge pics) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vegabond (Dec 12, 2009)

your crankshaft pulley notch needs to line up with the intermediate sprocket dimple. It also looks from the pics that your camshaft dimple is a little off, it should be level with the top front edge of the valve cover.


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## vegabond (Dec 12, 2009)

and it looks like your plug wires are correct...


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (vegabond)*

1)put ur motor on TDC....#1 piston should be all the way up remove green cap on tranny and u should see the V pointing to the dot on the flywheel








2)After this check ur cam sprocket...dot on inside of sprocket should be even with the front of valve cover like this...








3)remove distibutor cap make sure rotor is pointed to #1 in firing order like this(ull see a small line on edge of distributor, rotor should be like an 1/8 to the right of it.








4) Tighten belt put all the cover crapola back on and start the car..
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 4ePikanini (Aug 29, 2007)

If it runs real **** you need to turn the crank 360 ( _dizzy and cam will turn 180_ ) and then re-align the cam and dizzy.
If it runs slightly **** you have a tooth out on the cam.
See my recent thread - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4780945


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## superl8 (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: (fourie_marius)*

If you've set the crank - using the bellhousing peakhole. And the cam is correctly indexed ( as above ). Set the dizzy so the rotor points at the number 1 lead. Should start right up. Time it with a light.


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## camerow (Dec 28, 2009)

*Re: (superl8)*

Ok, so I re-did everything, took the belt off, got the cam timing exactly where it needed to be, the intermediate shaft lined up w/ the dampener, the distributer was perfect. The belt went on, I double checked everything while putting it on. Got the V-Belt on and it started up like a champ!
It was idling at 1000 and off I went....unfortunately there is a squeaking noise and it has no power. As I started going up a small hill out of the garage it nearly stalled, but eventually made it up. I decided to back the car into the garage and post up my problem.
I'm so close to successfully changing my first timing belt! It's dark so no pictures now, if you want some i can take a few. Anyone know what the problem could be?
Thanks guys! Loving the help so far.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Sounds like you set it to the correct position on the flywheel this time (you picture shows it at the 6° mark and not TDC). That it started and ran good for a short time means it was set correctly, but it sounds like something moved. Distributor hold down tightened? Timing belt tensioner tightened? Timing belt cover on right and secure for that squeek?


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (WaterWheels)*

Did u get a new tensioner or reuse the old one? Maybe the tensioner locked up making the squeak and causing the belt to skip????


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## camerow (Dec 28, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

I got a new tensioner, so that should be ok. I just got done w/ school stuff, so I'll head out and re-check everything. Something could have moved. it was dark and late last night so i just figured i'm hit it again today.
I'll update later today, thanks again guys, keep the help coming!


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## Peter_M5 (Jan 16, 2005)

after you get the tensioner on I highly recommend you do your timing with a multi meter like this: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3281138
amazingly simple and effective


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## chickenfriend (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (Peter_M5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter_M5* »_after you get the tensioner on I highly recommend you do your timing with a multi meter like this: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3281138
amazingly simple and effective

I just read that thread, but I am not convinced tolusina's explanation is completely accurate, specifically, that the coil fires when the voltage out of the Hall sender jumps to positive.
My Bosch manual states the opposite: that the coil fires when the Hall signal drops to zero, which is when the reluctor window begins to open. It states as follows:
_"The ignition point determined by adjustment of the ignition distributor lies at the end of the vane width corresponding to 70%"_ 
(70% being the shuttered part of the wheel.)
Additionally, it is not the pure Hall signal that triggers the ICM, as he states, but a Hall signal that has been converted into a ramped voltage. A Hall signal is a square wave. When the decaying voltage from the ramped signal falls to a certain threshold, the coil begins charging. This is the beginning of the dwell period and happens in the shuttered phase (window closed). When the ramp voltage begins to climb, corresponding to the drop in Hall voltage at the window opening, the ICM fires the coil.
The width of the reluctor window determines the extent that the ramp voltage rises. As soon as the aperature closes, the ramp voltage begins to decay. The ICM selects the trigger level voltage on the ramp as a way to control primary voltage at the coil.
All this information I am pulling from the Bosch manual.
To see this visually, one would need to plot Hall signal voltage with secondary output from the coil.
I'd stick to a timing light for the time being.


_Modified by chickenfriend at 7:55 PM 3-18-2010_


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## twinair (May 12, 2008)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*



TheMajic86GTI said:


> 1)put ur motor on TDC....#1 piston should be all the way up remove green cap on tranny and u should see the V pointing to the dot on the flywheel
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (twinair)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinair* »_ this method will set the cam to 6 degrees advanced and will lack the power to climb a slight incline. Cam timing should be with the notch on the flywheel. The dimple is for ignition timing only.

Sorry, but ya got that backasswards. Even if you jst sit a second and think about the direction of rotation and where things would happen with one or the other mark it should be clear. Dot is TDC and notch is 6° advanced when using a fixed timing light.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (twinair)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinair* »_


TheMajic86GTI said:


> this method will set the cam to 6 degrees advanced and will lack the power to climb a slight incline. Cam timing should be with the notch on the flywheel. The dimple is for ignition timing only.






TheMajic86GTI said:


> when doing the timing belt u always set it to TDC which is the dimple...And if u bothered looking at my 2nd pic u can see that i said to align the rotor about an 1/8 to the right from the mark on the dizzy rim which when car is running and u put a timing light on it will be 6*btdc which is the notch ur referring too.......this is the stock setting....From there u can set up to 12* btdc with a timing light or wutever u desire...
> 
> 
> _Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 11:19 AM 3-14-2010_


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## saxcure (Nov 21, 2007)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Will all this also work if im basically starting from scratch?
my crankshaft pulley is off the engine and my intermediate shaft sprocket may have been moved


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## Peter_M5 (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: (chickenfriend)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chickenfriend* »_
I just read that thread.
I am not convinced the theory is completely accurate, specifically, that the coil fires when the voltage out of the Hall sender jumps to positive.
I'd stick to a timing light for the time being.
_Modified by chickenfriend at 1:19 AM 3-14-2010_

I am not arguing with you on this because I am not against using a timing light and I don't have enough technical knowledge to back why the multi meter method works - all I have to say is that I just did this on my car after doing the timing belt and it works *flawlessly*


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## chickenfriend (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: (Peter_M5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter_M5* »_
I am not arguing with you on this because I am not against using a timing light and I don't have enough technical knowledge to back why the multi meter method works - all I have to say is that I just did this on my car after doing the timing belt and it works *flawlessly*

Did you verify your timing with a timing light?
Or, are you reasoning that because your engine is running well after using that method that the timing must be flawless?
My point is, that unless the timing is checked with a timing light or other test equipment on the secondary, how could the exact timing be known? It is possible for the timing to be off a few degrees and the engine will run acceptably.
Personally, I would need to resolve the few conflicts in tolusina's thread you advertise, with what my Bosch manual states, before recommending the multimeter timing method as an equal substitute for a timing light.
There doesn't seem to be any argument that the multimeter method will at least get one "in the ball park", however.


_Modified by chickenfriend at 8:06 PM 3-18-2010_


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