# lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

So i have an 06 Audi a3 2.0t with 50k (kms) on it.. it has gone up and down on oil burning since i have had it (seems to burn more in the winter) i drive pretty hard, but change the oil every 8k (km) or so. i use mobil 1 0w - 40 normally but my dealer changed the oil last with castrol, my friend has noticed burning on his 08 and got lucas, told me it helped. so i put in half a court but haven't driven enough lately to notice yet. i wanted to know what everyones opinion on this was? good product? or not?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer (tdotA3mike)*

Find a good oil with a good additive pack and don't mess with it. They spend boku $ trying to mix up the perfect balance of detergents, anti-wear, dispersants, etc. etc. and if you add this other crap you will probably do more harm than good.
This is the most effective demonstration of why you don't want to use additives I have seen, check it out:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...s.htm
If you are trying to clean ring packs to reduce oil consumption, try auto-rx.. It works. I wouldn't use any other additive personally as a good oil already has all the additives you need and in the right balance.
I think you would likely get the same results just by running a little thicker oil. You can go thicker but still stay in the same grade of oil if you want. Some of the 40 weight oils start at the bottom of the 40 range and quickly thin out to a 30 weight oil or worse. I believe of the 40 or so UOAs, only 4 actually stayed in grade! 2 were redline 5W40, one was biosyn 5W40,and one was Motul which was just a hair above a 30 weight. This engine beats the crap out of oils!








See this database of 2.0FSI UOAs for examples: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...34379 



_Modified by saaber2 at 12:45 PM 6-9-2009_


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

what oils would you recommend then? i saw your post on redline is that what you have found works the best?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

When looking at an oil for this car I am looking for:
1) Resistance to shear because this engine shears down even the best oils in a very short time. Notably shear resistant oils such as German Castrol, Amsoil, and Redline are sheared in this car. I haven't seen any oil that does not shear in this car, it is only a question of how much it shears (thins out). 
I would look at real world performance in UOAs first to see how much oils sheared and High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) performance second. VW 502 requires HTHS of only 3.5 cP. Redline 5W40 is at 4.6 and 10W40 is 4.7 and several Amsoil oils are right up there as well. 
I would look at good base stocks such as group V third. Redline and Biosyn are thought to have largely group 5 basetocks in the mix along with group IV. I am sure some of the Amsoil products do as well I just don't know which ones.
Interesting video that shows how hot a turbo can get running at 5k rpm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated
2) Resistance to fuel dilution - Renewable Lubricants Biosyn may be the best out there for this
3) Ability to provide antiwear protection to the flat tappet fuel pump follower/cam. Look for high levels of Zinc and Phosphorus (ZDDP) Biosyn, redline, shaeffers, amsoil, and Rotella synthetic are all good in this regard and there are probably others but those ones jump out at me. Note that a minimum of 1200 ppm zinc has often been recommended for flat tappet engines. Check out the zinc levels of most 502 oils, they aren't that high for the most part,.
4) Ability to clean. M1 seems to do excellent in this regard. Oils with high Ca levels such as Rotella, Biosyn, Shaeffers, Amsoil, Redline, do well also. Ester based oils such as biosyn and redline have been noted as cleaning well. Ability to clean is especially important if the owner has not yet bypassed the pcv or implemented a good catch can system. The reason is because no fuel reaches the intake valves to clean them on this direct injection engine, therefore the volatilized oil, traveling through the pcv system is the only agent to clean the valves (note that valves don't need the cleaning if the pcv is bypassed).
5) Noack volatility - you want low volatility. Especially if you have stock pcv system.
6) high TBN - You want high Total Base Number TBN 
Sorry to be indirect but I hate recommending specific oils because I don't think there is that much real world difference between top-tier oils, although their marketing departments would like you to believe there is. Many of the oils buy their additive packs from the same manufacturer, f.e. amsoil, redline, joe gibbs racing, etc. all buy from lubrizol. So if you are using a top teir oil there is not going to be a night-and-day difference IMO. Just look for the specific specs you want as noted above. If you want a thicker oil you might consider redline 10W40 which starts at 14.7 cst or 5W40 which starts at 15.1. I only mention those because I know them off the top of my head. I believe rotella synthetic is over 15 as well but don't quote me. All the above is IMO.
*Ester based oils* 
Here are some interesting tidbits from an article about esters. Redline is a Polyol Ester (POE) Based oil (has PAO in mix also).
"Polyol esters can extend the high temperature operating range of a lubricant by as much as 50 - 100°C due to their superior stability and low volatility. They are also renowned for their film strength and increased lubricity which is useful in reducing energy consumption in many applications. The only downside of polyol esters compared to diesters is their higher price tag, generally 20 - 70+% higher on a wholesale basis."
"The primary structural difference between esters and PAOs is the presence of oxygen in the hydrocarbon molecules in the form of multiple ester linkages (COOR) which impart polarity to the molecules. This polarity affects the way esters behave as lubricants in the following ways:
1) Volatility: The polarity of the ester molecules causes them to be attracted to one another and this intermolecular attraction requires more energy (heat) for the esters to transfer from a liquid to a gaseous state. Therefore, at a given molecular weight or viscosity, the esters will exhibit a lower vapor pressure which translates into a higher flash point and a lower rate of evaporation for the lubricant. Generally speaking, the more ester linkages in a specific ester, the higher its flash point and the lower its volatility.
2) Lubricity: Polarity also causes the ester molecules to be attracted to positively charged metal surfaces. As a result, the molecules tend to line up on the metal surface creating a film which requires additional energy (load) to wipe them off. The result is a stronger film which translates into higher lubricity and lower energy consumption in lubricant applications.
3) Detergency/Dispersency: The polar nature of esters also makes them good solvents and dispersants. This allows the esters to solubilize or disperse oil degradation by-products which might otherwise be deposited as varnish or sludge, and translates into cleaner operation and improved additive solubility in the final lubricant."
here's the whole article: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...56670



_Modified by saaber2 at 6:13 PM 6-9-2009_


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

very well written saaber2! you clearly know your stuff! and i can understand why you don't want to tell me what to use, i noticed M1 burns less then castrol, i might try redline and see. i am pretty happy with m1 compared to castrol thats for sure.


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