# Bluewater Performance E85 kit?



## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

... i was in the 12v technical forum and just stumbled across this...










http://bwperformance.com/products/volkswagen/vw-mk3-12v-stage-2-vr6-flex-fuel-conversion-kit

Included With This Kit:

-United Motorsport Software That Supports up to 450whp

-Siemens 60lb (630cc) High-Impedance Fuel Injector

-MK3 4" Mass Air Flow Housing 95mm

-Walbro 255LPH Inline Fuel Pump

-Runs On E85 Fuel Only

...doesn't come with other any information really...does anybody have any info on this conversion? looks interesting....


----------



## 71camaro (Apr 20, 2009)

lots of threads in the mk4 r forum, search


----------



## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

71camaro said:


> lots of threads in the mk4 r forum, search


...correct which is for the 3.2l 24v VR6 mk4... 

...this option, however, is available for the mk3 2.8l 12v obdII... in my eyes the platform was different enough to require asking about this since i haven't seen anything regarding the option of a mk3 12v vr6, E85, and boost...

... also thought that it might be pertinent since a lot of people in this technical forum are boosting 12v vr6's and might be looking to go e85 ... just wanted to see if anybody has anymore information, experience, or opinions on it, that's all...


----------



## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

In 2009 Matt at UM.uk had E85 setup for his mk2 12v 4Motion, obd2 track car. I did 480awhp @ 20 psi with a 1.06 GT35R.
I use the C263# now, and are running a 4bar fpr. Gonna lean it out with E85 

A OBD2 E85 setup is very welcome


----------



## mike minnillo (Sep 23, 2007)

ill repost here what i said in the 12v forums:

im friends with gabe (owner of BW), and hopefully i can provide some insight for you. all the tuning is done by jeff atwood of united motorsports (formerly the software guy from C2). BW is simply a dealer, and has put together kits for everything you need to run one of these E85 setups. the stage 1 is good for an NA setup, whereas the higher stages, that come with bigger MAF housing, bigger injectors, pump, etc. are intended for FI setups. the MKIII setups are intended for E85 ONLY, whereas the MKIV 12v & 24v (with factory wideband 02 sensor) has full flex fuel capabilities.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

To make a point, this question is not to bash this thread but simply to understand.

What is the point/benefit of running the E85 setup in this case?
Normally in my experience with E85 the majority of ppl switching is to make more power... but in this case to me that wouldn't make sense as the current 630cc software for 93 oct already supports well over 450whp....


TIA


----------



## A267MM (Nov 9, 2009)

wonder how much just the tune is


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

GTijoejoe said:


> To make a point, this question is not to bash this thread but simply to understand.
> 
> What is the point/benefit of running the E85 setup in this case?
> Normally in my experience with E85 the majority of ppl switching is to make more power... but in this case to me that wouldn't make sense as the current 630cc software for 93 oct already supports well over 450whp....
> ...


E85 has a really high octane rating, something like 110, plus it is cheap.

However to make the same power you need to add more E85 than gasoline, (soich for E85 is richer than for gas).

So you get worse mileage, but it's WAY cheaper than racegas. So there are plusses and minuses. 
an 830cc/1000cc E85 tune would be fun, imho. I agree a 630cc E85 tune seems a bit pointless as you can already make that much power just fine without E85. Seems like the benefits would become more apparent at higher power levels with bigger injectors.


----------



## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

PhReE said:


> I agree a 630cc E85 tune seems a bit pointless as you can already make that much power just fine without E85. Seems like the benefits would become more apparent at higher power levels with bigger injectors.



...just for conversations sake... wouldn't there be a potential for higher numbers on e85 (630cc) than lets say a regular gas tune (440cc), sort of like the same power but with less boost?

...i personally was looking forward more to the flex fuel feature that the mk4 guys get... where you have the ability to run regular gas and e85 at any point with the ecu making the switch... but unfortunately with the mk3 obd2 stuff you can only run e85....which i believe will only be for the guys really looking to make the most out of their setup...


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

Boost112 said:


> ...just for conversations sake... wouldn't there be a potential for higher numbers on e85 (630cc) than lets say a regular gas tune (440cc), sort of like the same power but with less boost?
> 
> ...i personally was looking forward more to the flex fuel feature that the mk4 guys get... where you have the ability to run regular gas and e85 at any point with the ecu making the switch... but unfortunately with the mk3 obd2 stuff you can only run e85....which i believe will only be for the guys really looking to make the most out of their setup...


I dont know for sure but an E85 630cc tune should make similar power to a gas 440cc tune. The E85 buys you a lot more resistance to detonation and pinging though so you can run more boost and more timing. 

The last bit of my post about E85 being more beneficial with 830cc+ injectors was coming from the point of view of using a 630cc gas tune already. If you are coming from a 440cc gas tune then 630cc on E85 would be handy, if that makes sense. :thumbup:


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

PhReE said:


> E85 has a really high octane rating, something like 110, plus it is cheap.
> 
> However to make the same power you need to add more E85 than gasoline, (soich for E85 is richer than for gas).
> 
> ...


yeah, thats my point basically.... and the comment about making more power than the 93oct file... answer is probably no, but i'm speculating..... and I say that because you are going to be limited by your MAF and not to mention the injector which is now "smaller" in comparison essentially because of the increased required fuel needed from E85.... 1000cc or go home for e85:laugh:


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

PhReE said:


> E85 has a really high octane rating, something like 110,


Just putting it out there that in fact, this is not exactly true. False information has spread the whole "high octane" thing out of proportion.
E85 has more in the 94-96 octane range, but since you're injecting more fuel than the equivalent to make the same power from gasoline, you're introducing more of the cooling effect methanol gives - which lowers down temps and saves you from the stuff the makes your engine blow up.


----------



## A267MM (Nov 9, 2009)

GTijoejoe said:


> yeah, thats my point basically.... and the comment about making more power than the 93oct file... answer is probably no, but i'm speculating..... and I say that because you are going to be limited by your MAF and not to mention the injector which is now "smaller" in comparison essentially because of the increased required fuel needed from E85.... 1000cc or go home for e85:laugh:


Agreed, man we running 2000cc on our street car and making over 700whp, E85 is great just cause it's cheaper


----------

