# 1.8 8v turbo?



## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

I want to start a turbo build on my 93 cabriolet (1.8 8v digifant) and was curious to know if anyone has a 1.8 8v succesfully to 300 whp? Would my transmission fail? I don't mind doing internals since i will be doing a full rerbuild anyways. I know i can have that power with a basic swap to a 1.8t or 16v for much cheaper but i want the original block that came with the car. I currently have a KKK K26 from a audi 5000 and was hoping to get some use out of it. Any suggestions and replies will be tremendous help. BTW, does anyone make a manifold to mate a K26 onto an 8v block? Thanks in advance.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Im not some lazy prick trying to take the easy way out. I've googled and iv'e searched in here as well. Bump for help.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

8v + k26 and digi = fail 

you want 300 whp get a big turbo and a SEMS and do some serious tuning along with better clutch and trans and fuel system. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4939320-8v-bolt-on-Turbo-worth-it&highlight=8v+bolt+turbo


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Svedka said:


> 8v + k26 and digi = fail
> 
> you want 300 whp get a big turbo and a SEMS and do some serious tuning along with better clutch and trans and fuel system.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4939320-8v-bolt-on-Turbo-worth-it&highlight=8v+bolt+turbo


 That thread was very helpful and led me to other threads the search couldn't find me. Thanks man! 
Well im going to try and get as much as i can from the K26. Anything else wouldn't have the factory reliability. Plus i don't want all the big turbo lag even if it's for a second. Im doing a complete rebuild of my motor and have the funds for full internal work if necessary. 

As far as turbo lag goes (not supporting racing on highways or anything) but i got into a little quarrel with a vr6T the other day and with my stock cabriolet. I was able to give him a run for his money and was in front the whole time. Maybe it was my risky driving or maybe it was the mild traffic he couldn't tame with his motor.... but he was definitely lagging.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

you gave a vr6t a run i like to see this maybe he wasnt trying or bad driver .also a k26 is a laggy turbo on an 8v go with the k24 full boost at 2800 rpms. well are you planning tons of boost or little? clutch you should upgrade tranny should be fine on low boost and smooth shifting no pwer shifting that breaks stock trannys. big turbos are much more fun power comes on smooth little ones hit hard and then party is over.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

A porche boxster convertible also came into our mix and i was ahead of him as well. They driver of the Jetta was definitely trying hard. At one point he pulled so hard in front of me and almost rearended a corolla. It was one of those rare OEM blue/purple MK3 Jetta they made for a year i think. 

Back on topic... i thought the K26 was a smaller and more reliable turbo for my small dispacement 1.8 8v'er. I had the notion that the K26 would spool in unison with my motor and feed power throughout the power band. I figured the T3, being that it is much larger, would just gush boost with a moments notice and lag in the early stages of the RPM band.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

If you want less lag, get a K03 (non-S). If you want absolutely no lag, get a GT15, lol. The fact of the matter is that the K26 is an older turbo, and no matter how small it is, it will be laggy due to the old tech inside it's housings. Newer stuff is much less laggy, and much larger.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

shooting blanks said:


> That thread was very helpful and led me to other threads the search couldn't find me. Thanks man!
> Well im going to try and get as much as i can from the K26. Anything else wouldn't have the factory reliability. Plus i don't want all the big turbo lag even if it's for a second. Im doing a complete rebuild of my motor and have the funds for full internal work if necessary.
> 
> As far as turbo lag goes (not supporting racing on highways or anything) but i got into a little quarrel with a vr6T the other day and with my stock cabriolet. I was able to give him a run for his money and was in front the whole time. Maybe it was my risky driving or maybe it was the mild traffic he couldn't tame with his motor.... but he was definitely lagging.


 Just wondering why do you think a k26 will have factory reliability? Your manifold and downpipe will be completely custom. All turbos have a LAG. 8v vs Vrt = Vrt wasn't even considering it a race or turbo was blown. 

Regardless of what turbo you use the k26 is a bad choice there is no parts available to make it work compared to a T3/T4 that could be pieced together fairly easy and has been done many times on the good ol 8v. 

Digi 2 sucks get SEMS or digi 1 (in your case MS would probably be easier) 
If you plan on more than 170-200 whp you need clutch and trans work 
if you plan on 250ish whp or more you need fuel system work (in line fuel pump bigger injectors adj FPR and so on)


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

You also have to think about compression ratio, counterflows run hot and with a turbo under the intake you will have heat soak and that will lead to raw detonation or pinging so either buy low compression slugs or a low compression head gasket.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

more links in this one 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5104598-trying-to-go-turbo-help-plz


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Get toyota 4agze pistons then have them cut for your vw circlips shave the rod small ends and shorten the pistonpin and drop in your block.Then get a audi 5k turbo manifold and wastegate lob off one cylinder outlet and weld closed. Get a mercedes sprinter cooler and standalone managment


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Asmahaas said:


> Get toyota 4agze pistons then have them cut for your vw circlips shave the rod small ends and shorten the pistonpin and drop in your block.Then get a audi 5k turbo manifold and wastegate lob off one cylinder outlet and weld closed. Get a mercedes sprinter cooler and standalone managment


 and still barely make 200 whp:laugh:


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Oh you will have to make custom boostpipes and atleast downpipe get bigger injectors dumpvalve etc. My 8v started life as a rv1.8 8v digi counterflow now running a xflo head and my turbo came off a 1.6gtd with the manifold i just put a bigger compressor on it and it spools up quick


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Factory reliability of toyota audi mercedes & a lil VW :screwy: Not to mention all the customizing for such little gains.


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

210Hp 350nm @wheels @ 0.8bar boost and much cheaper than a full n/a built reliability is in the tuners hands


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

ok let me give you the lowdown. I've been planning to boost my motor for over a year now. Neglecting it on purpose (besides oil changes), distributor is close to the end of its life, in-line fuel pump has been whining for the past year, gaskets are leaking all over the place and so forth. I want a potent motor that can be daily driven. 

I have been working 60 hours straight for the last year and was able to set aside roughly $10K for the motor rebuild. But i can't accomplish such a huge undertaking unless i have the help of you guys on the vwvortex. This is the main reason i have the confidence to make this all come together. *But i need you guys to stop abbreviating the names of parts and pieces because it is hard for me to acknowledge what you are talking about*:sly:. Im going to build this motor from the ground up... from the crankshaft all the way up to the valve springs. 

As for the turbo manifold... I thought the 1.9 turbo diesel would be able to mate with the K26? Correct me if im wrong. Im staying with the K26 since i already bought the rebuilt kit and i've done some research and found alot of people boosting around the range of 350hp with the right guidance. 

I know i will Need to run MS but have alot of reading to do on those systems. 

Besides the turbo, the only other components i have decided i would get are from techtonics. Im in search for a high strength lightweight crankshaft. I really don't want to mois and match pieces from different car manufacturers. Pics of the car and breakdown coming soon. 

http://www.techtonicstuning.com/mai...product_info&cPath=2_11_5_233&products_id=389 
http://www.techtonicstuning.com/mai...uct_info&cPath=2_11_5_223_224&products_id=376 


Asmahaas and Svedka: I understand that the K26 is not as high tech as the new stuff. But this is the largest small turbo i want to try out. If it comes down the road that i will have to opt for better/larger turbocharger, than its i risk im willing to take money wise and what-not. As for 200 WHP on a budget build, that is very very impressive. The tagged threads are very helpful but im going to have to reaqd them another 2 times to fully comprehend the dealeo.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

If you set aside that much money for the build or car restore why start with crap that has to be customized. Thats what im saying hell ATP sells a kit for 2k and you could go digi1 or SEMS have a capable 200-270 WHP with room to upgrade. 

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-109&Category_Code=VVWTK 

more useless info 
http://www.scientificrabbit.com/node/16 
http://www.scientificrabbit.com/images/turbo8C.pdf 

There are to many customization variables to use the k26 sell it and start over IMO.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

What about a garrett TB03 turbocharger?? i have one laying around the house but seems to need a full rebuilt. Is it worth it?


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Get a aba do forged rods and pistons get a turbokit and your megasquirt set it up and call it a day on our side of the pond turbokits pistons and rods are few and expensive thats why most guys do mostly custom setups just because its not a kit doesnt say you cant piece something together that'll do the job but for you guys its easier to get the kits


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Well even though the kits are easier to install. i know i won't be able reach the higher ratings im opting for. Just talked to Collins at techtonics and have decided to go with the forged pistons and H-beams. I also found out that the 1.8 8v i have is almost identical to the ones that came on the GTI's. So the crank is actually factory forged and i guess im going to keep it. The rods are forged as well but not as lighweight as i want it to be.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

The best option for you would be to by my driveline. I need the money to go on vacation and I can always build another one  Its an ABA running on E85. It was my daily until the snow fell.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

As tempting as that is, im trying to retain my stock block. Believe me, alot of variables are making me not wanting to go the turbo route. it's either i have the turbo on the original block or i don't do it at all. Im weird about things like that. I was wondering if anyone knew the stock weight of a single 1.8 8v piston rod. After reading a couple of replies i guess i won't be using the K26 after all. Im still undecided. Mostly because i want to retain all my oem interior a/c and functionality.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

shooting blanks said:


> As tempting as that is, im trying to retain my stock block. Believe me, alot of variables are making me not wanting to go the turbo route. it's either i have the turbo on the original block or i don't do it at all. Im weird about things like that. I was wondering if anyone knew the stock weight of a single 1.8 8v piston rod. After reading a couple of replies i guess i won't be using the K26 after all. Im still undecided. Mostly because i want to retain all my oem interior a/c and functionality.


 You can put in a crossflow and retain all your ac and interior stuff.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

TIGninja said:


> You can put in a crossflow and retain all your ac and interior stuff.


 
Is it possible to use my 1.8 block with a crossflow head? 

What are peoples take on nitrous systems?


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Svedka said:


> If you set aside that much money for the build or car restore why start with crap that has to be customized. Thats what im saying hell ATP sells a kit for 2k and you could go digi1 or SEMS have a capable 200-270 WHP with room to upgrade.
> 
> http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-109&Category_Code=VVWTK


 Svedka: What else would i need to complete this kit on my counterflow block?


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

shooting blanks said:


> Is it possible to use my 1.8 block with a crossflow head?
> 
> What are peoples take on nitrous systems?


 You could but there is no sane reason to use the smaller motor. Are you trying to win a bet or something?


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

TIGninja said:


> You could but there is no sane reason to use the smaller motor. Are you trying to win a bet or something?


 Heh not at all. I just wanted to keep as much oem pieces that came with the car as i can. Like i said, im weird. I figured if i had to change the $250 fuel pump, $120 fuel injectors, distributor, replace everything else that a full tune-up is based on plus a full gasket and bearing replacement of the motor... i might as well turbo it. 

But to be honest it's a little bit annoying trying to keep the block and force it at the same time. That atp kit svedka put me on to seems like a pretty good buy as of my options right now. But alot of the G60 parts are going to be useless for me.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

If you were to buy the atp kit you would need to finish the inter-cooler piping and use a digi 1 g60 ecu and wiring or SEMS really the simplest option. 

just call them tell them you dont need the g60 ecu chip or sell it if you go SEMS:thumbup: 

Yes a x-flow head will mate to a 1.8 read my turbo thread there are how to's 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5048934-G60-to-Xflow-turbo-build


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

shooting blanks said:


> Is it possible to use my 1.8 block with a crossflow head?
> 
> What are peoples take on nitrous systems?


 Nitrous bad. 

Water meth kit :thumbup: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisplay.php?1138-Water-Alcohol-Methanol-Injection


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

TIGninja said:


> You could but there is no sane reason to use the smaller motor. Are you trying to win a bet or something?


 Hmm well a 1.8 will spin up faster and if you started with a pg (corrodo 1.8 bottom end) it is boost friendly as is :beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Dude...you seem like a helpful sort, but you've got to stop making things up as you go along. 

Spin up faster? It's boost, it gets there fast no matter what.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

What do you mean making it up a 1.8 has a shorter stroke therefor spinning faster. If that's wrong please correct me.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Huh? i thought the difference from the 2.0 to a 1.8 was only the bore diameter. I didn't know it had a shorter stroke as well. Well the tech at techtonics told me that my bottom end (which is the same as 8v mk2 gti's and im guessing the same as the corrado G60's) will be able to handle the pressure of 300whp if i can even accomplish that level of awesome. But he told me a standalone will the be the best bet for my goals. 

The main thing im worried about is being able to use all my factory comforts and keeping the same block. I want to keep my motor bottom and top end and add the ATP turbo kit. Will this work Svedka? I reading up on your builds at this moment as well:thumbup:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

well i guess I should say compared to the ABA block. 

plug and play engine management simple style must call for your application 
http://www.braunstadt.com/lugtronic/node/13 

Your bottom end is not like a pg g60 bottom end. 

The kit is more like a starter box of legos has most the stuff but there will still be some stuff needed:thumbup: 

The ATP kit is for a corrado the only difference is the corrado came with digi 1 and was forced induction yours was NA high compression, so you need low compression slugs or low compression head gasket and to do a FMIC kit, bigger injectors.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Svedka said:


> well i guess I should say compared to the ABA block.
> 
> plug and play engine management simple style must call for your application
> http://www.braunstadt.com/lugtronic/node/13
> ...


 Now im getting somewhere. Atp turbo kit + lugtronic ecu is going to really simplyfy things for a newb like me. I will end up getting the techtonics low compression pistons, source out an intercooler and fuel injectors for my needs. So everything mentioned is costing 

I plan pricing for the worst so 
ATP turbo kit $2000 
lugtronics ecu for my custom install $2000 
low compression piston and H rods and rings $ $1250 
techtonics solid lifter valve kit with springs $500 
intercooler plus piping $300 
downpipe $200 
injectors $200 
peloquin 020 limited slip diff $875 
better clutch $200 
high output fuel pump $150? 
------------------------------------------- 
a motha******* whopping $7675! 

Any thats not even considering all the other miscellaneous pieces and custom welds i might need. 

So do you think 300whp is achievable with this setup and this type of money being spent. If it truely is, i will go for it.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Or for $6000 you can buy my set up and be waaaaay ahead.


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

You guys are lucky were stuck with ***ty fuel highest @ the pump is 97oct otherwise we have to go get racegas specially and supply is irratic sopower output is also limited to your fuel octane and boostlevels


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

i was talking 300whp on 93 octane. Englishtown is my closest strip and i would only have time to go there during the summer. I just found out my block has hydraulic lifters and i know that can have a negative effect boosting


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5030110-374-whp-8v-Rabbit 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5096950-who-s-cam-is-best&highlight=cam 

Piecing it together will be your best bet to reach the 300 whp mark and you forgot the water meth kit and ceramic coating everything. 

more turbo parts 
http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/pr...RT_MKIII_2_0L_TURBO_HARDWARE_KIT-928-136.html


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Asmahaas said:


> You guys are lucky were stuck with ***ty fuel highest @ the pump is 97oct otherwise we have to go get racegas specially and supply is irratic sopower output is also limited to your fuel octane and boostlevels


 Best I can get locally is 92-93 still no local e85 stops either.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Svedka said:


> Piecing it together will be your best bet to reach the 300 whp mark and you forgot the water meth kit and ceramic coating everything.


 So are you saying to not buy a turbokit and start from scratch? or are you saying to buy the turbo kit and lugtronic plug and play ecu and piece the rest together?


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

^^^^sorry for the dumb question but ive been reading for over 6 hours and i've just lost it man.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

Again, Digifant 2 is not boost friendly. You say you've got a lot of money lined up. Your best bet would be to get a different platform that's easier to work off. Unless you're willing to retrofit your car to run on megasquirt or similar, that's where a good chunk of your money is going. As far as building up your block, that won't do any good on Digifant2. Hell, the block is already engineered well enough to handle a good amount of boost, if you apply it properly. Don't simply look at the number 300 when thinking about your goal. Do realize the weight of your car is a whole hell of a lot less than most 300hp cars out there. Again, do realize that your car is FWD, and having that much horsepower on a road car is one hell of a challenge to get to have any useful power out of.. The SRT4 is really quite stellar in regards to that. I'm really sad that's gone. 

As far as the K26, it's quite a decent turbo. Yes, that kind of lag is inherent with an older turbo like that. A lot of people have taken the audi 5000 manifold and had the 5th runner chopped and welded, and a port for the wastegate built there. It works out quite well. But again, we're talking with problems with the Digifant 2 ECU. And if you were on cis-e, which is way more boost friendly, you'd reach the limits of fueling before you max the turbo. So with regards to that, the K26 would again be a poor choice, since you could get a smaller turbo, say off a saab 900, that would get you to the limits of cis-e with no where near the amount of lag (again, not saying the k26 is really that bad. The lag would really only be an issue in first gear, depending on the transmission you used, and even otherwise, you'd be having huge issues with traction you'd need to consider). 

So, all in all, with the amount of money you have to put into everything, you should look outside the box. Having said all that, I'd much rather drive an A2 than an A3... so...


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

shooting blanks said:


> So are you saying to not buy a turbokit and start from scratch? or are you saying to buy the turbo kit and lugtronic plug and play ecu and piece the rest together?


 If it was me I would buy everything in pieces:thumbup: 

I have a parts list in my build:beer:


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Svedka said:


> If it was me I would buy everything in pieces:thumbup:
> 
> I have a parts list in my build:beer:


 LOL if i was you then i would buy in pieces too! But unfortunately im not and when it comes to forced induction projects, it's just like my sn... i would be shooting blanks 

But that is what i initially wanted to start doing. Getting everything in pieces and learning as i go. No more K26. So as of right now im starting over and getting internals for the block to make it solid. Im still curious to know if having hydraulic lifters is a negative thing and would cause me to fail to reach goal. 

So far i have the TT pistons, rods, and rings on my sure list. Have to do a little more reserch to see which turbo will give me the best performance through the rpm band. Something small but potent enough for my goal of 300 whp 

BTW: I know that using the block that came with the car is setting me back alot more in funds. But that's what i want.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

It is a nice build but ultimately it's up to you. Definitely not stockish looking and lots of money spent setting it up in his rabbit:thumbup: 

So does this need to pass emissions or inspections? You plan on daily driving this? 

Look at different kits make lists and see what the differences are (pro's con's prices bla bla) 

It took me a few weeks and a few parts I didn't need to end-up where mine is I would say I spent about 3k and I did all the work, no dyno numbers but I would guess 200WHP and lots of room to upgrade, 8PSI on my 8vt was like 18psi on my g60 it is a completely different world. 

My thoughts :beer: 

I say piece it together is to make the 300 whp mark you will need a 3in down-pipe, 2.5-3in cat back exhaust, your own intercooler system, SEMS (lugtronics with wideband), fuel system upgrade (inline fuel pump and adj FPR, bigger injectors), pistons, clutch, peloquin, water meth kit, oil lines and pan, manual boost controller, turbo manifold with wastegate option, wastegate, BOV, pick a cam (AT270 has good results), and the right turbo:thumbup: 

Most kits will only get you to 200 whp, piecing it together will make it upgradeable from the start and you will not get any useless parts. 

Downpipe and exhaust will have to be custom there is no MK1 turbo options. 
Intercooler will have to be custom fit no pre fit kit's 
Lugtronics can make a plug and play kit for you 
Contact KINETIC and see if there manifold will work on a counterflow head or search the mk1 callaway thread looking for a manifold with wastegate option you could also buy the ATP manifold and have a wastegate port welded on if needed. 
Devils own water meth or snow performance meth kit 
oil lines and pan BFI or ebay 
Get a manual boost controller that will work on your setup not a bleed style 
Get a DV or BOV to fit to your IC piping 
Pick your cam AT 270 or TT 268 are boost freindly work great in hydro heads 
adjustable cam gear 
Now pick your turbo :thumbup: 
rebuild your block and drivetrain:thumbup: 

When you look at that compared to the kit it is fairly easy to figure out what is the best option.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Hydrolic lifters are in all ABA x-flows and g60's so they are fine just dont try and over rev 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5030110-374-whp-8v-Rabbit 

That thing runs on a autotech 270 hydro camshaft


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

^man if you were next to me and i was gay.... i would kiss you^ 

I can't begin to tell you how much that last post will help me. It's basically a guidline for everything i need and i can't thank you enough. So thank you very much  

I don't have to go through emissions or inspections since my car is registered in california but i live here in NYC (Thanks to Jay "Puebla" from TCL). I plan on a 300whp car but plan to daily it with the boost low so im getting around 180-210hp to the wheels. 

For example: If i want a 1000 watt system in my car.... i will get a 1300 watt system just so im not stressing everything out when im hitting 1000 watts.... makes sense? This is my second cabriolet and i can't see myself in anything else. So dumping my money is worth for it. 

I really like Tigninjas setup. I little too showy but cant help but realize that the turbo would run much cooler in such a location. Don't know if debris through the inlet would be an issue. Funny thing is that he lives in MN and my sister lives out there.... probably an hour or so away from him. So im always up there and it's a real possibility. Just not sure if i'll be able to retain my factory a/c, cruise and whatnot. 

As of right now im still pointed to piecing my motor together and reaching my goals. Buying his kit would basically teach me nothing other than taking the easy route.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

shooting blanks said:


> ^man if you were next to me and i was gay.... i would kiss you^
> 
> I can't begin to tell you how much that last post will help me. It's basically a guidline for everything i need and i can't thank you enough. So thank you very much
> 
> ...


 If she lives in eagen shes 10 min from me actually. 

If you really want to do something like this I have a MK1 that im about to rip apart for my winter mods. We have a inhouse dynojet and sell haltech or I have the ability to tune OBD1 motronic right here. I am the fabricator here (full blown motorsports) and would be happy to build whatever you need. LMK. 

I do think my set up is a little more extreme then you require but it would be an option and for $6k for everything it may also be the cheapest option.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...installation-thread&highlight=a1+turbo+thread 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4908506-ABA-turbo-setups 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4755945-8vT-VIDEO-THREAD!&highlight=8vt


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Counterflow manifold info:thumbup: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3532659-G60-owners-do-for-an-improved-intake-manifold


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Building a turbo counterflow is a nighmare. I have built a bunch of them and every one is a PIA.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

But what's all this smack that i counterflow after port and polish flows better compared to a crossflow. Something to do with the sharp angles of the valves.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

The people talking smack have never made any power. 300whp is easily done with hyd lifters.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

Since your car is a 93 You should get a 2.0L from an mk3 and use the wiring harness as well so you can just chip it. keep all the factory stuff just a lil newer. The wiring harness should be plug and play for the most part. I like Obd 2 harnesses as they use a faster processor and have a solid idle. 

Then you can go ahead and use a kinect turbo kit straight on. http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/pr..._Stage2_MKIII_2_0L_Turbo_Kit_OBD2-492-98.html 

Just a head spacer and factory reliability, no built motor needed, and since your starting with 2.0L it spools faster than a 1.8l and makes more power before boost. My friend has the full stage 3 kit with a short runner intake, a TT268/260 cam and ported head for more top end power. 

I bet kinectic/CTS will be doing a holiday special as well on kit pricing.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

all-starr-me said:


> Since your car is a 93 You should get a 2.0L from an mk3 and use the wiring harness as well so you can just chip it. keep all the factory stuff just a lil newer. The wiring harness should be plug and play for the most part. I like Obd 2 harnesses as they use a faster processor and have a solid idle.
> 
> Then you can go ahead and use a kinect turbo kit straight on. http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/pr..._Stage2_MKIII_2_0L_Turbo_Kit_OBD2-492-98.html
> 
> ...


 Again people spouting out things they read on the internet. I did 280whp on a very quick pump gas tune on stock compression junkyard longblock. All the extra stuff is just a bandaid for a tune thats not optimized for what your doing.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

TIGninja said:


> The people talking smack have never made any power. 300whp is easily done with hyd lifters.


 on a counterflow? im assuming a custom intake manifold is a must.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

shooting blanks said:


> on a counterflow?


 Power is easier to make on a crossflow and the type of lifters dont really matter until your spinning crazy RPM. The ability to make 300whp on any of these motors has nothing to do with flow. It has more to do with the combustion chamber as the limiting factor (along with the fuel used).Any VW head will flow enough to make 300whp with a properly sized turbo.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Point taken. Say i push 300whp on a stock motor. Do you think over years of use it will end up breaking down from all the boost? This type of concern makes me want to do internals


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Well its not good for them but because you would be in boost less the 5% of the time its not the end of the world. They will wear out quickly without a good tune though. Also once you get to 300whp strength does become an issue. Personally if I was going to try to make 300who I would put in a stock crossflow. We can get them for $100 delivered to the shop and if it blows up your not out much. I made 280whp on a bone stock motor right out of the junkyard on pump gas. 300 wouldnt have been hard to do and it would have probably lasted a looooooog time.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

TIGninja said:


> Building a turbo counterflow is a nighmare. I have built a bunch of them and every one is a PIA.


 True:thumbup: 

X-flow is just easier and much more room to work:beer: 



all-starr-me said:


> Since your car is a 93 You should get a 2.0L from an mk3 and use the wiring harness as well so you can just chip it. keep all the factory stuff just a lil newer. The wiring harness should be plug and play for the most part. I like Obd 2 harnesses as they use a faster processor and have a solid idle.
> 
> Then you can go ahead and use a kinect turbo kit straight on. http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/pr..._Stage2_MKIII_2_0L_Turbo_Kit_OBD2-492-98.html
> 
> ...


 We were referring to a mk1 cabby so it is CE1 
http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE1.html 

I'm still interested to know how a ABA could spool faster than a 1.8, the 2.0 stroke is longer and weight of the 2.0 crank are different from that of the 1.8 smaller stroke and lighter crank, what am I missing? 

I would like to know so this doesn't happen 


B4S said:


> Dude...you seem like a helpful sort, but you've got to stop making things up as you go along.
> 
> Spin up faster? It's boost, it gets there fast no matter what.


 


shooting blanks said:


> on a counterflow? im assuming a custom intake manifold is a must.


 My thoughts 

Custom no, 300 whp you should get everything flow tested (http://www.scientificrabbit.com/) and use a power gasket (http://www.evolutiontuning.com/evoheatshields18SOHC8V.htm) and ceramic coat and wrap your downpipe, even think about a turbo blanket or some sort of heat shield do as much as possible for heat reduction. 

X-flow much easier and the parts are easier to come across in JY these days :thumbup: 



shooting blanks said:


> Point taken. Say i push 300whp on a stock motor. Do you think over years of use it will end up breaking down from all the boost? This type of concern makes me want to do internals





shooting blanks said:


> As far as turbo lag goes (not supporting racing on highways or anything) but i got into a little quarrel with a vr6T the other day and with my stock cabriolet. I was able to give him a run for his money and was in front the whole time. Maybe it was my risky driving or maybe it was the mild traffic he couldn't tame with his motor.... but he was definitely lagging.


 Most of this is in the tune and maintenance and lets mention how much of a ass you decide to be when you drive the car obviously the harder you are on it the faster it will degrade.:biggrinsanta:


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

Svedka said:


> True:thumbup:
> 
> X-flow is just easier and much more room to work:beer::


 
I don't mind the crossflow head on my block as long as a/c is still in function 










Svedka said:


> My thoughts
> 
> Custom no, 300 whp you should get everything flow tested (http://www.scientificrabbit.com/) and use a power gasket (http://www.evolutiontuning.com/evoheatshields18SOHC8V.htm) and ceramic coat and wrap your downpipe, even think about a turbo blanket or some sort of heat shield do as much as possible for heat reduction.
> 
> X-flow much easier and the parts are easier to come across in JY these days :thumbup: :


 Im going to have TIGninja make a custom mani. so i'll make sure he gets that done. Don't know how much more it will be. 







Svedka said:


> Most of this is in the tune and maintenance and lets mention how much of a ass you decide to be when you drive the car obviously the harder you are on it the faster it will degrade.:biggrinsanta:


 Lol.. hold up. I was doing my regular 60-70 when homey comes right behind my back and then comes around to the front and slows down. forcing me to ride his bumper . Like he was checking to see if my car had anything indication a turbo or aba block upgrade. Then he steps on it and i hear something happening. Then in maybe 1.3 tenths of a sec, he was hauling butt. I caught up to him in dense traffic, and passed him, to show him it's not all about the power :laugh:. He tried to catch up but a cabriolet doesnt need too much room to move around. Other than that... i am very gentle with my car. Now i can't say that about previous cars ive owned. So im not a total ass thank you.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

TIGninja said:


> Again people spouting out things they read on the internet. I did 280whp on a very quick pump gas tune on stock compression junkyard longblock. All the extra stuff is just a bandaid for a tune thats not optimized for what your doing.


 Actually i went to the machine shop to drop off the head to be ported, then helped reinstall it with short runner and cam. This car is very fast for an 8v, and sees a 25psi regularly from a T3/To4e 50 trim. 

I am rewiring another buddys 84 cabby at the moment to put in a similar 2.0L turbo setup. he has a 1.8t with GT35R and fully built 2.0l bottom end that makes enough that its more than double 280hp at 30psi as a daily. fun car but not reliable and the spool sucks being that high. so i am building him a reliable 8v turbo for his cabby to autocross in. 

not a big fan of ATP stuff as the manifolds put the turbo right in the way of A/C stuff and often hits the rain tray, but ive helped install several kinetic kits on friends cars and they seem pretty well thought out to me. but what do i know from just reading the internet.


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## shooting blanks (Nov 20, 2009)

i guess when you have a less restrictive flowing mani/turbo manifold, you have less back pressure to your head/pistons/valves, which in turn keeps your stock internals from burning down. That's how TIGninja and others have succesfully put down 300whp on stock internals. But what do i know... im as dumb as boobs.....mmmm booooobs.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Actually the internal strength of the motor will only take so much stress and this increases with the amount of HP. How much boost it takes to reach this level matters not.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

shooting blanks said:


> Now im getting somewhere. Atp turbo kit + lugtronic ecu is going to really simplyfy things for a newb like me. I will end up getting the techtonics low compression pistons, source out an intercooler and fuel injectors for my needs. So everything mentioned is costing
> 
> I plan pricing for the worst so
> ATP turbo kit $2000
> ...


 $1250 for pistons and rods is too much..... http://www.raceeng.com/c-1790-18-8v.aspx 
much better deal and very high quality stuff.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Bfi pans are a ****ing waste. The bung is in the wrong spot, and to make matters worse the bung has internal threads. When your all done ****ing around with adapter and fittings you wind up with a drain hole around .300". Defintely not optimal for a turbo drain.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

http://www.designengineering.com/ca...lkswagen/divided-top-mount-equal-length-vw-8v
http://store.blackforestindustries.com/spa52tuch.html

I want to try these :beer:


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Asmahaas said:


> You guys are lucky were stuck with ***ty fuel highest @ the pump is 97oct otherwise we have to go get racegas specially and supply is irratic sopower output is also limited to your fuel octane and boostlevels


this is why w/m is your friend....












thats 93oct+w/m:beer:


pretty much becomes 110++ octane.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Bfi pans are a ****ing waste. The bung is in the wrong spot, and to make matters worse the bung has internal threads. When your all done ****ing around with adapter and fittings you wind up with a drain hole around .300". Defintely not optimal for a turbo drain.


ummm...pretty sure with -10an to 1/2npt adapter i'm running the ID is around 5/8 or roughly .625":screwy:


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

Quintin is this dyno on 270 autotech cam?


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Myliljettatoy said:


> Quintin is this dyno on 270 autotech cam?


sorta...its on the tt266 which is the same cam...also this was on a base 1.8t tune so the power band didnt carry as long as it should have. its all good i have a custom 276 cam to put in...


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

This cams are pretty amazing 175 wtq at 2k and over 350 whp at 6750 rpm


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

In here is a 2.5in cat back system for mk1 bodys TT/eurosport/autotech only offer 2 1/4in for the mk1 body styles

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ss-Exhaust-for-Mk2-16V-Golf-Jetta-from-Sweden


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> ummm...pretty sure with -10an to 1/2npt adapter i'm running the ID is around 5/8 or roughly .625":screwy:


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-632170/

-10 an line from russell is .563, so it doesnt really matter I guess. Still too small in my opinion, but then again iirc your running a restrictor right Q?

I dont have one, but I'm running a fire hose for a drain lol, about .875...-16an


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-632170/
> 
> -10 an line from russell is .563, so it doesnt really matter I guess. Still too small in my opinion, but then again iirc your running a restrictor right Q?
> 
> I dont have one, but I'm running a fire hose for a drain lol, about .875...-16an


one of them yes. (seals were leaking when i got it) the other one know. Had it for 10k miles with no restrictor. no problems. :thumbup:


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