# Control arm problem



## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

I have a 2003 FWD V6 passat and I just spent the last couple hours trying to replace my control arms and ball joints. All of them are seized on the spindle and will not move. This car has seen years of snow and salt, so I figured this would happen. I do not have the torches and tools to break it loose. I will have to take it to the local shop to get it fixed, but first I wanted to know what it will cost in labor to do both sides, or how many hours it will take. thanks


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: Control arm problem (justinfeener)*

To do complete front suspension overhaul will be about 8 hours labor @ whatever rate is for your area..here Dealer $130/hr...indy shops about $90-100...do the math...$$$'s for sure. I did mine in about 9 hours or so..but then I didn't have road salt corrosion to deal with..I did put antisieze on the upper ball joint lock bolts etc...and it paid off when I later had to do CV boots...tell shop to do that 4U too! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: Control arm problem (spitpilot)*

I knew it was going to be at least 500, but I just really do not want to pay some one to do the job when I know I can do it. So I will take anyone up on their opinions right now. I am think I might try a regular blow torch, but I just do not know if it will be hot enough. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know, I have to try and save that money.


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: Control arm problem (justinfeener)*

Start today, soak every bolt on the control arms with PBBlaster, including the various knuckles and pinch bolts. Do this every day for at least a week, two if your CA's are ok for that long. While you are at it, do the bottom bolt for the front struts as well.
Only after doing this then try the heat.


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: Control arm problem (tryin2vw)*

Haha thanks, I will give it a shot for sure, I actually started it last night. The Indy shops are telling me that it will take 9 Hours to do the job and with rusted bolts it will take more time on top of that. There is no way I am paying over a $1000 just for labor


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Minor Rant*

[RANT] That is the fallacy of "Book Rate". The book rate should include the potential for the bolts to be corroded and extracting those bolts. These are not new cars and the CA's cannot be changed without removing the bolts. Mechanics at shops make more money by beating shop rate, by-passing all of the book steps for the learned field short cuts. They do not charge you for the time they work on the car, you are charged "Book Rate". Charging for removing the bolts is not right. They are having it both ways.[/RANT]
It will take all day to do the change. I hope you are where it is relatively warm.


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Control arm problem (justinfeener)*

Book time is probably 6-8 hours, and as tryin says, should already include a buffer for things that don't go according to plan. If it takes longer, too bad. How many times have you been charged less money than an estimate because somebody found a short-cut?
Anyway, if you can take off the shock tower, that will give you more room to pound away at those stubborn control arms. Or, you could bring just those in to a shop and pay them to rip it apart, then go home and finish the job yourself.


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Control arm problem ()*

I guess that would only help if just the uppers were siezed...


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: Control arm problem ()*

HAHA, ya well they are all seized. But I spent the whole day in the garage and beat the **** out of them. It looks like they are finally coming loose. I got the upper CA's out and the ball joints. 
Still have to work on the lower 2 now. But the PB blaster is the way to go with a nice propane torch. I just heated the bolt and cooled it down with the PB blaster. It took at lot of time but worked like a charm. I guess I can safe the money on labor and get my borla Catback system








Thanks for all the help


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Control arm problem (justinfeener)*

Let us know if you lose any eyebrows...


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## sillysod (Mar 26, 2007)

*Re: Control arm problem ()*

with the money you are saving invest in a kijiji air compressor and an air hammer.


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Control arm problem (sillysod)*

Nice toys, if you have the garage to keep them in... :`(
They may not be much help to our OP though. If memory serves, some of those suckers are already enough of a beeyotch to get at with much nimbler tools... I'm especially thinking of the chassis side of both lowers, and it's not bringing back pleasant memories.


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: Control arm problem ()*

well I have one side finished, well almost







. I just have to figure out one thing. On the front lower control arm there is a piece that slips on the ball joint and then connects to the spindle. Anyway, it is seized on the the ball joint and I was wondering if you can buy that piece. I am sure no one has a damn clue what I am talking about but I know you do need this piece to properly seat the ball joint. I really do not wanna beat and pound and try to get this thing off if I can just buy it.








thanks


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

*FV-QR*

Do you mean the sway-bar link?


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

*FV-QR*

Even better: a picture is worth 1k words...


_Modified by  at 7:35 AM 2/10/2010_


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ()*

I got it off anyway. Funny thing is, I took the CA to VW and they did not have a sweet clue what the piece was. Surprised the S.H.I.T out of me.


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (justinfeener)*

and no, it had nothing to do with the sway bar, It is number 55 in the diagram you posted. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *justinfeener* »_It is number 55

Ah. It's called "that little spacer/insert thingy that goes over the ball joint".








I think it must have stayed in the knuckle when I did mine, although that was a few years ago...

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ()*

Hahaha, That would be the one. It was a lot of fun trying to remove it


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## 2001 Variant (May 27, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (justinfeener)*

I don't remember that part either. Must have stayed in place I guess.
I know you're done now but you can always take the car to a mechanic and pay him an hour or so to break the bolts lose that you can't get.
I really only had trouble with the pinch bolt in the uppers. That took about 1/2 an hours of beating with a small sledge hammer (as well as soaking with pbblaster - didn't have a torch handy). It's important to leave the old nut on the bolt to prevent it from mushrooming at the end where you beat on it. Also toward the end it started to bend sideways but luckily it broke free just before it was too bent to be pulled through the hole








There is a special tool VW has that presses the bolt out.
I didn't have too much trouble with the lower bolts. They were tight but doable.
I'll have to do the driver side uppers again some time. They are getting noisy again (did them 2.5 years ago).


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (2001 Variant)*

Well I have to say, no I am still not finished. I am done with the rusty areas though.







I am doing a complete suspension overhaul so it is taking awhile. I just finished all the control arms today, and tomorrow I am installing the Bilstein shocks and H&R springs. When this project is done it will be worth it.


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (justinfeener)*

If you're installing springs..you need to set upper control arms to proper angle for "at rest" position with the springs..otherwise you'll overstress bushings and they'll wear out prematurely!....What I did was to measure my ride height with stock suspension (car sittin level, measure distance from axle center to fender well peak)..then with shock/spring outa there I installed new upper arms (loosely) and put ball joints into steering knuckle and raised up the suspension to new ride height (stock number minus the drop my Eibach springs were supposed to give 1.25")...held suspension in that position with jack and tightened upper arm bushing bolts to lock setting in. Then removed "top hats with arms and torqued the bolts to final spec (couldn't get torque wrench up there with top hat in car)..That locks in correct "preload" on top bushings..I did bottoms with car sitting on its wheels (install lower arms loosely, lower car torque bushing bolts...you're good to go! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (spitpilot)*

thanks buddy, I was kinda just thinking of getting VW to do the alignment for me. For 80 bucks, I won't have to worry about it. But if you say it will be easy to do in the garage then hell, I will give it a shot tomorrow. cheers










_Modified by justinfeener at 5:10 PM 2-15-2010_


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (justinfeener)*


_Quote, originally posted by *justinfeener* »_thanks buddy, I was kinda just thinking of getting VW to do the alignment for me.

What he means is that you need to torque everything down with the suspension loaded, or you'll be doing the job all over again sooner than you think... You'll still need an alignment after.


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## justinfeener (Apr 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ()*

It's done, Thanks guys. Looks amazing and rides like a dream


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (justinfeener)*

it took me 9hrs to replace all my control arms and struts/shocks and I do this for a living. I even sprayed the upper bolt with zep 45 for 2months once a week and the bolts still had to be removed with a torch and air hammer lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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