# High flow Catted pipe worth it?



## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

I have a GTI cat back, and front resonator delete. Would it be worth it, performance wise, to get a catted pipe installed and run 2.5" pipe back to the cat back?


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Any modifications done to the engine? Speicifically the intake portion?


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

itskohler said:


> Any modifications done to the engine? Speicifically the intake portion?


Carbonio CAI. Getting a Stage2 Unitronic. Unitronic said it would work fine without the cat.


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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

ehhh maybe. its a bit expensive at 400. I have carbonio as well and a magnaflow. And I have the catted usp midpipe and the quality is good. But there is only a small gain in the butt dyno. I actually did run slightly faster acceleration times though afterwards. I have videos too if you want to see. Did it on the same road, almost same temp, dry. The sound it makes is damn sexy though especially past 4k. Im still waiting on a tune. Unitronic is expensive. Apparently UM can do it if you ship your ecu but I have only one car.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Unitronic stopped support for the 2.5 as well.

Ask thygreyt, he used to be the resident fan-boy unril he went with UM.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

itskohler said:


> Unitronic stopped support for the 2.5 as well.
> 
> Ask thygreyt, he used to be the resident fan-boy unril he went with UM.


http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/main/en/files/155_2010-2012_volkswagen_golf_mk6_25l_170hp.html

I don't think so. In fact they just recently got it going on the 2012s. I'm not mailing my ECU anywhere. That is ludicrous. Can't they train someone at a shop and let them download it? It's software after all.

Unitronic will do a custom tune, and the shop can download it.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

They just responded saying they still support it. Where did you see it posted that they didn't?


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

They started working on it...not developing it. Look at APR, GIAC, all of those companies. They made a few basic tunes and dropped support.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

itskohler said:


> They started working on it...not developing it. Look at APR, GIAC, all of those companies. They made a few basic tunes and dropped support.


Where do you get your information? They didn't used to have the tune for my car at all, and now they do. Seems to be in development.

They say they're supporting it. It's for sale right now.


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## RedRumGTI (Dec 6, 2003)

Take the resonator off your stock rabbit exhaust (closet to the cat) and weld it in place of the stock cat. Did it on my old setup worked like a charm


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

What does that do, besides make my exhaust illegal? I'm not doing any hoopty solutions. If I do anything, it will be the cat pipe.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

do you want a company that actually knows and MAKES real tunes? or are you just trying to go with something that you are comfortable with...

I mean uni on a mk4 was good... shoot even the 2.0t its all fine and dandy. even apr is AMAZING for that application... but you must not understand where this 2.5 has been

NONE of the Big tuners can offer you a "flash" install... you WILL have to remove your ecu and ship it. because the new encryption that VW themselves have started using. they went from simple encryption to all out CRAZY...

bench flash can be done, in car via the k line cannot. it is not a visible change, it requires zero soldering so rest easy it'll be done and sent back to you...

GO with a company that actually KNOWS this motor and continues to develop it regularly. unitronic built ONE cool rabbit that no one has ever seen drive. and they stopped...

go with Either C2... or UM


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## RedRumGTI (Dec 6, 2003)

Fudgey Memory said:


> What does that do, besides make my exhaust illegal? I'm not doing any hoopty solutions. If I do anything, it will be the cat pipe.


Nothing "hoopty" about it. Its a way to get a better flowing peice in if your to cheap to spend it on a pre made test pipe. Or you could just buy all the supplies and make your own 2.5" test pipe with high flow cat for $75 to $100.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

RedRumGTI said:


> Nothing "hoopty" about it. Its a way to get a better flowing peice in if your to cheap to spend it on a pre made test pipe. Or you could just buy all the supplies and make your own 2.5" test pipe with high flow cat for $75 to $100.


But is it legal? ANd whenever you start welding pieces together, you create an opportunity for a break. I'd rather have do the test pipes with cat.

And Unitronic confirmed they are supporting the 2.5. For how long? As long as it makes them money I would guess.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Fudgey Memory said:


> Where do you get your information? They didn't used to have the tune for my car at all, and now they do. Seems to be in development.
> 
> They say they're supporting it. It's for sale right now.


 UHM, I dont think I really need to cite my sources being that EVERYONE in these forums that has had a 2.5 in for a while knows what 2 companies are the only ones making advancements for our engines. Seriously, ask Fred (thygreyt) about Uni and see what he tells ya.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

itskohler said:


> UHM, I dont think I really need to cite my sources being that EVERYONE in these forums that has had a 2.5 in for a while knows what 2 companies are the only ones making advancements for our engines. Seriously, ask Fred (thygreyt) about Uni and see what he tells ya.



I'm sorry, but who are you and Fred, and why am I taking your statements as gospel truth here? Do you have some sort of inside information about what's going on inside Unitronic? Seems like typical forum rumor mongering to me. No evidence to the contrary.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

Meanwhile, Unitronic puts out new software. Curious. They must be doing it just to throw Fred and itskohler off the track. :sly:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Edited

Can lead horse to water...


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

So no evidence that anything you say is true, just indignation that I refuse to accept your word as law. That's reasonable.

C2 doesn't post hp or tq ratings for their race tune, but you can assume since their Street is about the same as Uni's Stg1, that their Race is about the same as Stg2.

APR's was less, before they abandoned it. Now that one you can tell is abandoned. Unitronic answered my email with a statement saying that if you haven't heard it from them, it's not happening. And they confirmed continuing support for the 2.5L. And they just recently updated the software to include the new cars.

UM is about the same for my car. 1 more horsepower, 3 less tq.

So how is my car underpowered? You can lead a horse to water, you just can't make a mule do it.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Fudgey Memory said:


> So no evidence that anything you say is true, just indignation that I refuse to accept your word as law. That's reasonable.
> 
> C2 doesn't post hp or tq ratings for their race tune, but you can assume since their Street is about the same as Uni's Stg1, that their Race is about the same as Stg2.
> 
> ...


Ask them what their future plans of development are. I know they HAVE it. But ask them how far they are willing to go to make improvements, develop new tunes for new applications, ask them if they have an SRI tune out. This isn't about them making a file. Its about how far they are willing to go.

The emails I sent back in forth about my 2.5 weren't very satisfying. Maybe they have had a change of heart, who knows. If they did than good for you, they are a good company, that everyone can agree on.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

itskohler said:


> Ask them what their future plans of development are. I know they HAVE it. But ask them how far they are willing to go to make improvements, develop new tunes for new applications, ask them if they have an SRI tune out. This isn't about them making a file. Its about how far they are willing to go.
> 
> The emails I sent back in forth about my 2.5 weren't very satisfying. Maybe they have had a change of heart, who knows. If they did than good for you, they are a good company, that everyone can agree on.


Why is about how far they are willing to go? Once I have my tune, what do I need them to do? Mine will be the last of the 2.5s as we know them. All I would ask is that they keep the software available, and supported for 5 years. Then dump it. Why bother?

The C2 SRI and tune makes more sense, but with C2 writing their own tune, why would Unitronic try to compete? And that upgrade is far too expensive. The SRI should be half the price it is. C2 just knows that if you want performance otherwise, you'd have to go turbo, for the price of a used car! Ridiculous amount of money to put into a 2.5L. Might as well buy a GTI before going turbo.

Uni will eventually, within 2 or 3 years max, stop developing anything new for an engine not being produced. They'll focus on the 1.8t for base Golfs. And by then, I'll have one.

I like this engine, but it's kind of in between. It's not really a performance engine, and it's not an economy engine. It doesn't really have an identity. That's why everyone who gets one, immediately sets about fixing what VW didn't do.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

The NA 2.5L doesn't have a future. That's the fact of it. Tuning companies will eventually all drop support. It will never be like the 1.8t, or old 2.0, or VR6. 

It's a TSI TFSI 2.5TFSI world.


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## Rabbidrabbitt (Mar 21, 2011)

:banghead::banghead:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't even know what to say to that.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

itskohler said:


> I don't even know what to say to that.


Say it's true. Companies only do what's profitable, and supporting dead platforms is not profitable. Not wanting to believe it doesn't make it less true.

CIAC, REVO, and APR have already dropped it. You're right that Unitronic will too. UM will be right behind them. C2 will be there for a while longer because they have a significantly bigger investment with their line of turbos and the sri. Just makes sense. But C2's products are prohibitively expensive and approach GTI money to be installed. Get a new GTI with a warranty instead. A lot of folks will.

No sense crying over it. Manufacturers drop engine platforms, companies support currently selling products before no longer manufactured ones. Makes sense too.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

Banging your head, but offering absolutely no information to counter a single thing I've said. Just stubbornly insisting that you are right and I am wrong.

I don't understand the adherence to the 2.5L as if it's god's gift. It's nice, but once it's gone, I won't be mourning it. I'll just move on.

If it were a computer, it would be the Amiga, or the NeXT. Awesome machines for their time, but the industry moved on.

Though there are still Amiga and NeXT computer clubs out there rewriting the OSes and porting them to new hardware in a desperate attempt to stay current. 

I'll just never be one of those people.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Fudgey Memory said:


> Say it's true. Companies only do what's profitable, and supporting dead platforms is not profitable. Not wanting to believe it doesn't make it less true.
> 
> CIAC, REVO, and APR have already dropped it. You're right that Unitronic will too. UM will be right behind them. C2 will be there for a while longer because they have a significantly bigger investment with their line of turbos and the sri. Just makes sense. But C2's products are prohibitively expensive and approach GTI money to be installed. Get a new GTI with a warranty instead. A lot of folks will.
> 
> No sense crying over it. Manufacturers drop engine platforms, companies support currently selling products before no longer manufactured ones. Makes sense too.


 So negative man. Appericiate and support the companies that do make products for the 2.5. UM does make turbos kits, btw. 

Go pull your meat in the 2.0T forums if you think thats "the way of the future". And you're right, it makes sense for companies to go where the money is. Its taken quite a while to get companies on board with the 2.5 and even longer to get 2.5 owners to fork up the money. I get that, I really do. But there are a growing number of 2.5 owners that see its potential, not as a "gift from god", but as a solid engine with capabilities that are just now being breached. 

I just don't get why you would get the 2.5 if you don't like what it brings to the table vs the 2.0T. I think most people would agree that the support of the community by manufacturers will NOT come from supporting other ocmpanies that have already dropped their support.

We are a small niche in the VW line of engines, but we are at least true to ourselves and the community. Most of us know we are fighting what seems like a losing battle littered with high hopes and false truths. But we at least stand behind what we got, not put it down and **** on it. :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## RedRumGTI (Dec 6, 2003)

Fudgey Memory said:


> But is it legal? ANd whenever you start welding pieces together, you create an opportunity for a break. I'd rather have do the test pipes with cat.
> 
> And Unitronic confirmed they are supporting the 2.5. For how long? As long as it makes them money I would guess.


Idk about your state, but in pa mine passed with this on. Why do you think welded pieces would break? The test pipe with cat that your thinking of buying are also welded. With the exception of the header on my car I've fabbed my whole exhaust system and none of the welds have failed.... but hey, go ahead and waste your money on a pre made part. Its a lot easier than making your own :facepalm:


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

+1 on fudgey's negativity, jesus man if you're sold on Unitronic because they simply answered your emails the way you wanted then go for it, no one here actually cares what you do. the reason we tout United Motorsport or C2 is simply because they're on this forum day in and day out providing support and help for this platform, as well as continuously releasing new products and further developing our platform. That's why. ****, Unitronic can come out with a simple tune for new models, but the question that's being asked of you is to simply look past the standard tune and take a look at what else they've done with the engine. The answer is that they haven't, and that is why people here don't want to go with them. Very simple concept.

Regarding your continued comparison of the 2.5 to a GTI/GLI with the 2.0T, it is NOT close in price no matter how you look at it. The cost of the GTI/GLI alone is thousands higher than the 2.5 line, so even if you throw $5K into a turbo for the 2.5 you're still just at the same price as a stock 2.0T. Again, very simple concept to understand. 

If you disagree with everyone other person in this thread simply say so, no need to go on and on about your love for Unitronic and how they're just as good as UM + C2. The answer is that they are not as good because you have to look at the big picture and who's putting money into future developments for our platform...rather than simply rolling out a basic tune without any further interest in it whatsoever.

:banghead:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

What he said. :laugh:

I dont think I got the same message across, haha.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

A Golf is 19k. A GTI is 24k. A C2 turbo is at least 4k + install if you don't do it yourself. Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems pretty close to me. 

I never went on and on about any love for Unitronic. I just disagreed that they were currently dropping the platform. 

I'm not negative, I just don't have your unwavering devotion to the platform. The only message gotten across is that people here get pretty whiny and grumpy when you disagree with them. 

Typical. Forum "Masters" that have to demean anyone who disagrees with them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't have to read this thread, right? So if you don't care, why are you still following this? Just unsubscribe.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

As for why I got this car, it's for the same reason anyone gets a lower priced model. I couldn't afford the higher priced one.

I love the 2.5L, I'm just not "in love" with it like you guys. It's a missed opportunity by VW. They never really got behind it like they have their other motors. It's just an engine you stick in a car where the engine doesn't really matter.

That's a shame, because this engine has a lot of potential that only a few companies were smart enough to see. Unfortunately there aren't a large amount of tuners who have adopted this platform, even though it has sold quite well. So only a few companies can exist in the market. That leads to higher prices, and even more diminished interest. 

UM and C2 will be the only ones left soon. But that's how it should be. Many enter a market, but only a few remain. Especially a market as small as 2.5L tuners.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

RedRumGTI said:


> Idk about your state, but in pa mine passed with this on. Why do you think welded pieces would break? The test pipe with cat that your thinking of buying are also welded. With the exception of the header on my car I've fabbed my whole exhaust system and none of the welds have failed.... but hey, go ahead and waste your money on a pre made part. Its a lot easier than making your own :facepalm:


I don't want to "make my own". I want to get in my car and drive it. That's just as valid as your desire to make everything from scratch. To each his own.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

itskohler said:


> We are a small niche in the VW line of engines, but we are at least true to ourselves and the community. Most of us know we are fighting what seems like a losing battle littered with high hopes and false truths. But we at least stand behind what we got, not put it down and **** on it. :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


Stand behind what? It's a car, not a religion.

Another productive help thread in a Vortex forum. It'll be my last time asking for help here. It always ends up the same, and I see it happen to a thousand others. The only people who comment are not the ones trying to help you with your problem, just the people who just can't stop themselves from telling you how stupid you are for not doing it their way.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Fudgey Memory said:


> Stand behind what? It's a car, not a religion.
> 
> Another productive help thread in a Vortex forum. It'll be my last time asking for help here. It always ends up the same, and I see it happen to a thousand others. The only people who comment are not the ones trying to help you with your problem, just the people who just can't stop themselves from telling you how stupid you are for not doing it their way.


 Why help someone that isnt willing to help themselves? :screwy:

The cheapest C2 kit is 2499 by the way. And you can make your own for around the same if not cheaper.

/unsub'd


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

Fudgey Memory said:


> Stand behind what? It's a car, not a religion.
> 
> Another productive help thread in a Vortex forum. It'll be my last time asking for help here. It always ends up the same, and I see it happen to a thousand others. The only people who comment are not the ones trying to help you with your problem, just the people who just can't stop themselves from telling you how stupid you are for not doing it their way.


eace: I generally try to avoid threads when they go in this direction.. but I can't help myself. 

You asked an open question, inviting opinions. What were you expecting to get back? Nothing but what you wanted to hear? Forums exist to share information. Be it stores, data, opinions, pictures.. etc.. 

I think it's pretty common knowledge not every person on the other side of the interwebs is a certified professional. If you don't like what someone said, or suggested, move on. No need to get all defensive and negative.. Just sayin' eace:

As for the 2.5L - I can't speak for everyone, but part of *my *love is the fact that it's NOT a 2.0T. It's off the beaten path. I still get puzzled looks when i tell people I have a 5cyl. It's not common knowledge you can have a car with uneven # of cylinders. I think anyone who is seriously tuning this engine knows this, knows it'll be a little pricier, and is willing to roll with that cause it suits THEM. 

/Endrant /Endsub


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

itskohler said:


> Why help someone that isnt willing to help themselves? :screwy:
> 
> The cheapest C2 kit is 2499 by the way. And you can make your own for around the same if not cheaper.
> 
> /unsub'd


How am I not willing to help myself? Only one or two posts were actually advice. I asked for an opinion on whether the cat would be beneficial enough to justify the expense. 

I don't mind if someone offers alternatives, but no one was really trying to help me all that much.

I don't think I was being defensive. Everyone else was defending the 2.5. No need. I like my car. Wouldn't have bought it otherwise. But when I had my 2008 GTI, and people told me it's faults, I didn't rip them up for it. It has flaws. I guess I'm ok with the 2.5s limitations, and I can mention them without getting all touchy about it.

As for what I expected, I expected someone to give me an opinion about whether it would be worth the money to do what I wanted. One person tried.

I think you should be able to give an opinion without being skewered. But this is Vortex.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

The 2.5 will end up being the new World vr6 everyone will be wanting. This is by far the best motor VW has put out for quite some time. It breathes better, some have forged cranks...

And fudgey... Do you not know what the new tt-rs has in it? Yup that's a 2.5t... So in turn I think more people will be looking in here... 

You really are a grumpy dude aren't you... Even on c2's face book you're negative. Maybe that's why you don't want the better software... you can't seem to get along with anyone...

Was that the elephant in the room or what?


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

TylerO28 said:


> The 2.5 will end up being the new World vr6 everyone will be wanting. This is by far the best motor VW has put out for quite some time. It breathes better, some have forged cranks...
> 
> And fudgey... Do you not know what the new tt-rs has in it? Yup that's a 2.5t... So in turn I think more people will be looking in here...
> 
> ...


Yep. That's me. Can't get along with anyone. If I'm not having my own opinions, I'm busy thinking things that might not be the same as anyone else is thinking.

Sometimes, and you might find this hard to believe, I even disagree with what other people say. No, it's true. But far be it from me to rain on the sunny dispositions I found in here.

I criticized C2 for their exorbitant prices, on the SRI anyway, which I think is too pricey. In my opinion, they're taking advantage of he lack of competition in a limited market.

I heard about the 2.5 in the TTRS. I think it's going in the R, too. Next iteration anyway. But what that will do for NA owners, I'm not sure. The NA 2.5 is being replaced with the 1.8t next year. What's in the TTRS has about as much to do with my engine, as the engine in the current R has to do with the 2.0 in the Jetta.

I like this motor, but vw is still replacing it. I think that's too bad, but it's still happening. I've said on more than one occasion that this may be the best motor vw has ever made. I can say that and say that it isn't a well supported, or very tuneable, engine in the same breath, and both things are true.

Sorry if it ruffled some feathers, but that's my opinion.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

jaja123 said:


> ehhh maybe. its a bit expensive at 400. I have carbonio as well and a magnaflow. And I have the catted usp midpipe and the quality is good. But there is only a small gain in the butt dyno. I actually did run slightly faster acceleration times though afterwards. I have videos too if you want to see. Did it on the same road, almost same temp, dry. The sound it makes is damn sexy though especially past 4k. Im still waiting on a tune. Unitronic is expensive. Apparently UM can do it if you ship your ecu but I have only one car.


Thanks for trying to help.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Fair enough... 
I can appreciate the honesty.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

RedRumGTI said:


> Nothing "hoopty" about it. Its a way to get a better flowing peice in if your to cheap to spend it on a pre made test pipe. Or you could just buy all the supplies and make your own 2.5" test pipe with high flow cat for $75 to $100.


Actually that was a good suggestion. Sorry if I answered a little snarky. But no cat is illegal in my state a far as I know.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

Look, things got a little out of hand. I personally don't care if people disagree with me. I don't even care if they get annoyed at things I say. I can take criticism of my ideas. And I'm not claiming innocence here, as far as poking and poking back, or arguing. Debates get heated, it happens, but I wasn't taking it personally.

I alluded to some here not being the experts they were claiming to be, and I have to admit that I was poking a little at the 2.5 because I was getting annoyed. For that, I have to apologize.

But criticizing a company, someone's tone, or their ideas is one thing. The problem here was that some did get personal, making broad generalizations about what kind of person I am. There was no need for that, really.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

Oh, as far as Unitronics goes. The main reason I am considering them is that my dealer will do it in their in house speed shop. And I can get great support. My personal experience is that they take forever and a day to answer emails, if at all, which I'm not impressed with.

I have several friends that have Unitronics on their 2.0s, and love their tunes, though. 

I was probably a little harsh with C2 about the SRI, but I'll stand by my assertion that their price is based more on what they think the market will bear, more than on any fair assessment of it's value. 

UM, C2, Nothing Leaves Stock, and some others have really impressed me with their forum support. I agree that you won't see Unitronics doing that. But I'm not sure what they could do to demonstrate commitment besides making new files. When you're a software seller, that's what you do. I don't think they do hardware like UM or C2, do they? Nothing on their site anyway.

UM & C2 also do not have any local presence, and it would be a major inconvenience for me to mail my ecu. One buyer of a tricked out new Jetta 2.5L was thinking of the C2 turbo, which meant the tune shop would have brought in C2, but he backed out. It was a new ride and he didn't want to ruin the warranty.

I'm still considering the C2 SRI, I'll just cuss while I write the check, I guess. As long as it doesn't void the warranty. I'll have to check with the dealer. But I can always do it after warranty expires, and by then there should be some used ones.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

Anyway, I don't want to sour the relationship with the cool people here over some stupid forum disagreement. So, for my part, I do apologize.

Looking forward to meeting you at SoWo. Don't worry, I'll be happy. Mostly because I'll be drunk.


:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Fudgey Memory said:


> UM & C2 also do not have any local presence, and it would be a major inconvenience for me to mail my ecu.


I think eurowise is a dealer for C2, Although I dont know if they are set up for flashing.
And if they dont, Im pretty sure blackforest in Cary does. Just a heads up if you ever need it.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

mldouthi said:


> I think eurowise is a dealer for C2, Although I dont know if they are set up for flashing.
> And if they dont, Im pretty sure blackforest in Cary does. Just a heads up if you ever need it.


BFI is far, but a bunch of guys make road trips there from Charlotte on occasion, so it's a possibility.

Eurowise might be an option, but I just don't want to leave my car sitting there for days.

Thanks for the info, though. C2 is closer than I thought.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

*Speak of the Devil*

From Unitronic: "Unitronic Chipped We highly recommend adding a 2.5" Cat-Back Exhaust with our Stage 2 flash for the best results! Definitely worth it! Hang tight and we'll have a complete package for you!"

Looks like they're stepping up after all. Good news.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

Will the Race tune from C2 work with my GTI cat back + front resonator delete, if I don't have the high flow cat? It says it's tuned for it, but so does Uni's and they responded that it would still work.

I was wondering if I could get C2's installed, and get the cat later.


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