# Anyone else with an SEL-P feel the fogs are useless?



## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

IMO, what a complete waste of money. They did such a superb job with the LED headlights that the fog lights don’t seem beneficial at all. When driving, yes they do light up more to the sides of your driving path but for what? And I noticed that with them ON, when cornering, that extra LED in the headlight housing illuminated so brightly that you can’t even see the halogen colored fog beam anymore. I would have rather seen some sort of R-Line-esque fog grille cover thingy. 

/rant


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## moveingfaster (Oct 4, 2006)

I installed VLED Micro LED bulbs in mine and they made a world of difference. They provide a ton of useable light and don’t create any glare. It’s a well worth upgrade. 


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## HarryPooter (Mar 21, 2016)

I put $30 Amazon LED bulbs in mine and it makes a world of difference.


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## jimothy cricket (Jul 9, 2008)

Have you tested them on a foggy day? Assuming they're designed to perform well in foggy instances. I don't think they're suposed to be bright, as fog is a colloid (I remember this term from high school science class) and refracts light.


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## HarryPooter (Mar 21, 2016)

jimothy cricket said:


> Have you tested them on a foggy day? Assuming they're designed to perform well in foggy instances. I don't think they're suposed to be bright, as fog is a colloid (I remember this term from high school science class) and refracts light.


Really haven’t been able to measure the effectiveness, it doesn’t get foggy here very often. It sure does look a million times better though and definitely shines more light on our rural backroads.


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## castlecraver (Feb 8, 2007)

HarryPooter said:


> I put $30 Amazon LED bulbs in mine and it makes a world of difference.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


What bulbs did you use?


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Savvv said:


> IMO, what a complete waste of money. They did such a superb job with the LED headlights that the fog lights don’t seem beneficial at all. When driving, yes they do light up more to the sides of your driving path but for what? And I noticed that with them ON, when cornering, that extra LED in the headlight housing illuminated so brightly that you can’t even see the halogen colored fog beam anymore. I would have rather seen some sort of R-Line-esque fog grille cover thingy.
> 
> /rant


That's the whole point of properly designed fog lights. It is not for foreground lighting but to see where the edge of the road is in foggy conditions so you don't drive off of the road.

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## HarryPooter (Mar 21, 2016)

castlecraver said:


> What bulbs did you use?


These are the bulbs I used. They do throw a code that has to be cleared, but that’s to be expected.

Win Power H11 LED Headlight Bulb Conversion Kit H8 H9 CREE 70W 7,200Lm 6000K Cool White Fog Lights+ Canbus-2 Yr Warranty https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L91AUAS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_calXBbJG5J9XG


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

BsickPassat said:


> That's the whole point of properly designed fog lights. It is not for foreground lighting but to see where the edge of the road is in foggy conditions so you don't drive off of the road.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Makes sense. But, has anyone deemed them useful by this method? I haven’t driven through heavy enough fog that I couldn’t see the road ahead.


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

The fogs on this car are extremely useless... They're cornering lights. Not fog lights. The beam pattern shines to the sides and not on the road in front which is what you don't want for fogs. 

I have DeAutoLED's fog light bulbs and they work well and increase the brightness of the fogs a lot. But still it's moreso a cornering light than a fog light. They look cool tho haha. 

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## TofuBoyz (Jul 10, 2018)

In my experience fog lights are more for aesthetics. I have them on my Accord and can’t tell any difference when they’re on even in heavy fog.


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## i_am_sam_i_am (Nov 2, 2017)

For those who have replaced them, was it as simple as removing the a few screws within the wheel-well and pulling back the cover to access the bulbs?


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

i_am_sam_i_am said:


> For those who have replaced them, was it as simple as removing the a few screws within the wheel-well and pulling back the cover to access the bulbs?


Yes. 

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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Savvv said:


> Makes sense. But, has anyone deemed them useful by this method? I haven’t driven through heavy enough fog that I couldn’t see the road ahead.


Back in Jersey, I used to drive through lots of heavy fog in the early mornings on twisty 2 lane roads (driving just above the speed were the passive cornering lights would work) It works, also helped to have the contrast of yellow lamin-x on the lens.

In SoCal, it barely rains, so no fog to worry about, thus it's extremely rare that they are on when I'm driving at night.


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## moveingfaster (Oct 4, 2006)

i_am_sam_i_am said:


> For those who have replaced them, was it as simple as removing the a few screws within the wheel-well and pulling back the cover to access the bulbs?


Yes, I turned the wheel all the way one way and removed 3 screws then pulled back the liner. It was pretty easy. 


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

D3Audi said:


> The fogs on this car are extremely useless... They're cornering lights. Not fog lights. The beam pattern shines to the sides and not on the road in front which is what you don't want for fogs.
> 
> I have DeAutoLED's fog light bulbs and they work well and increase the brightness of the fogs a lot. But still it's moreso a cornering light than a fog light. They look cool tho haha.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


That’s exactly what I felt. However with how effective the LED headlights are at throwing a cornering beam of light, you don’t even need the fog to do it. Overall I’m super impressed with the LED headlights so much so that the fogs aren’t worth having.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

I thought so. I was very surprised to see they had halogen bulbs in there. If I were to drive in actual fog a lot I would have left them alone, but living in Phoenix, AZ I decided to change them out with LEDs. I went with a set of DDM Tuning's 50W Saber, 6K color and 5,000 lumens per bulb. They don't throw a code and were a 10 minute drop-in replacement. I took off the bottom "skid plate" to access both sides.
The difference is literally night and day.

For about 30 feet in front of my car it looks like daylight when they are on, the lens controls glare to oncoming traffic quite well and I only occasionally get flashed if I forget and leave them on while on the road in traffic. The design of the reflector throws light well to the side of the car and I find them indispensable while driving through neighborhoods at night, you can see anything that would run out in to the street.

I fully admit that these crazy bright bulbs will probably be 100% useless in fog, but they are great for offload and in the rain.


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## jimothy cricket (Jul 9, 2008)

Even though I believe they're halogen for a reason, I'm thinking about installing LEDs for more brigthness. Like most people have stated—fog is rare and even if it is prevelent, it's even more rare that it's dense enough to hault driving. I'd rather have more visibility for those extra dark winter nights and what not.


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## jimothy cricket (Jul 9, 2008)

gerardrjj said:


> I went with a set of DDM Tuning's 50W Saber, 6K color and 5,000 lumens per bulb. They don't throw a code and were a 10 minute drop-in replacement. I took off the bottom "skid plate" to access both sides.The difference is literally night and day.


How well do these match the color tone of the OE headlamps (do you have the halogen or xenon lamps?)


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## moveingfaster (Oct 4, 2006)

jimothy cricket said:


> Even though I believe they're halogen for a reason, I'm thinking about installing LEDs for more brigthness. Like most people have stated—fog is rare and even if it is prevelent, it's even more rare that it's dense enough to hault driving. I'd rather have more visibility for those extra dark winter nights and what not.


If halogen is better than I wonder why Volkswagen put LED fogs on the mk7 GTI? 


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

I’d like to call to question if there is any effectiveness to a yellow fog bulb. In an ultra low visibility situation, not just for seeing ahead but for oncoming drivers to see you coming toward them, does the yellow light outperform the daylight white of the LED lights?

Also, for those who have already upgraded their fogs to brighter lights AND also have the SEL-P headlights, do the fog beams brighten up the road any beyond what the headlights are doing?


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Savvv said:


> I’d like to call to question if there is any effectiveness to a yellow fog bulb. In an ultra low visibility situation, not just for seeing ahead but for oncoming drivers to see you coming toward them, does the yellow light outperform the daylight white of the LED lights?
> 
> Also, for those who have already upgraded their fogs to brighter lights AND also have the SEL-P headlights, do the fog beams brighten up the road any beyond what the headlights are doing?



http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/light_color/light_color.html


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## i_am_sam_i_am (Nov 2, 2017)

BsickPassat said:


> http://danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/light_color/light_color.html


TL;DR:



> Selective yellow light can improve a driver's ability to see in fog or rain or snow, but not because it 'penetrates fog better' or 'reflects less off droplets'. In fact it's because of the way the human eye processes different colours of light. Blue, indigo, and violet are difficult for the human optical system to process correctly. They are the shortest visible wavelengths and tend to focus in front of our retina rather than upon it.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

Savvv said:


> Also, for those who have already upgraded their fogs to brighter lights AND also have the SEL-P headlights, do the fog beams brighten up the road any beyond what the headlights are doing?


In short: no.

The fog lights are mounted, shaped and aligned to shine very low and wide. They do a tremendous job of filling in and augmenting the low beams close in and very much to the sides of the car.
Here's my lights with low-beam only and low-beam and fog on one of the trails near me. I did not lock exposure between shots so the camera reduced exposure with the fogs on, so they are comparatively brighter than they appear in the photo.

I don't know why the photos aren't appearing inline, but they do open in a separate window/tab.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

Here’s a without fogs and then with fogs photo with the phone resting on the steering wheel. Mind you these are stock fog bulbs with gun smoke Lamin-X film. 



















Barely noticeable difference if any. I’d probably lean more toward getting yellow bulb fog lights if the yellow does any good in fog because otherwise, I have no need to ever run fog lights when visibility is good.


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

Savvv said:


> Here’s a without fogs and then with fogs photo with the phone resting on the steering wheel. Mind you these are stock fog bulbs with gun smoke Lamin-X film.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not to change the topic. But it appears like your low beams are aimed really low, no? 

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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

D3Audi said:


> Not to change the topic. But it appears like your low beams are aimed really low, no?


Glad I posted those then. I have to look into that. Maybe it’s from lowering the vehicle. Are there standard adjustment screws to re-aim the beams or would it need to be done in VCDS?


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## Munnjo (Sep 2, 2018)

I find mine to be very low as well - perhaps even lower than the ones posted above (Canadian Highline). Might need to look into adjusting these. Goes through about a 10 second light show/calibration every time it starts up though...


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Savvv said:


> Here’s a without fogs and then with fogs photo with the phone resting on the steering wheel. *Mind you these are stock fog bulbs with gun smoke Lamin-X film.*
> 
> 
> 
> Barely noticeable difference if any. I’d probably lean more toward getting yellow bulb fog lights if the yellow does any good in fog because otherwise, I have no need to ever run fog lights when visibility is good.


Has it occurred to you that the gun smoke lamin-X film is the reason why you perceive the fog lights as useless?

Assuming you have h8 bulbs, you're already at a disadvantage with 35W bulbs that produce 712 lumens. Putting the smoked film over it will decrease the light output. Putting yellow bulbs in won't make it any brighter, in fact it's going to produce less output than the standard H8 bulb, coupled with the light reducing gun smoke film.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

BsickPassat said:


> Has it occurred to you that the gun smoke lamin-X film is the reason why you perceive the fog lights as useless?
> 
> Assuming you have h8 bulbs, you're already at a disadvantage with 35W bulbs that produce 712 lumens. Putting the smoked film over it will decrease the light output. Putting yellow bulbs in won't make it any brighter, in fact it's going to produce less output than the standard H8 bulb, coupled with the light reducing gun smoke film.


Perhaps, but it doesn’t sound like I’m the only one who doesn’t see them as being all that useful. If I were to replace with a yellow LED fog light that shined brighter than the H8 than maybe they’d be beneficial.


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## i_am_sam_i_am (Nov 2, 2017)

Savvv said:


> If I were to replace with a yellow LED fog light that shined brighter than the H8 than maybe they’d be beneficial.


Just keep in mind that if you're going to go for visibility (fog) it will need to be "selective yellow", not just a standard yellow bulb. I'm not sure what strides have been made in a selective yellow LED, but one way to get the color is by using Kapton tape on the reflector with a white bulb.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

i_am_sam_i_am said:


> Just keep in mind that if you're going to go for visibility (fog) it will need to be "selective yellow", not just a standard yellow bulb. I'm not sure what strides have been made in a selective yellow LED, but one way to get the color is by using Kapton tape on the reflector with a white bulb.


so you did end up reading the Daniel Stern link I posted


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## i_am_sam_i_am (Nov 2, 2017)

BsickPassat said:


> so you did end up reading the Daniel Stern link I posted


Haha! I was actually going to credit you for the great link! :thumbup:


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

i_am_sam_i_am said:


> Just keep in mind that if you're going to go for visibility (fog) it will need to be "selective yellow", not just a standard yellow bulb. I'm not sure what strides have been made in a selective yellow LED, but one way to get the color is by using Kapton tape on the reflector with a white bulb.


Interesting. There's no chance I'd go through the trouble of splitting apart the fog housing to apply that tape to the reflector. I'll do some searching for the selective yellow stuff and if I can't find anything worthwhile then YELLOW LED it is! 

Like perhaps these: https://www.amazon.com/iJDMTOY-Selective-Replacement-Bulbs-Driving/dp/B00SUQSZ6W?th=1


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

Savvv said:


> Interesting. There's no chance I'd go through the trouble of splitting apart the fog housing to apply that tape to the reflector. I'll do some searching for the selective yellow stuff and if I can't find anything worthwhile then YELLOW LED it is!
> 
> Like perhaps these: https://www.amazon.com/iJDMTOY-Selective-Replacement-Bulbs-Driving/dp/B00SUQSZ6W?th=1


Those LED bulbs will not do anything worthwhile. You need a yellow led bulb that has a similar diode size to a halogen filament. With those you linked you'll be blinding everyone and the light will just scatter. 

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## EPilot (Jul 27, 1999)

*Please do not turn this into a sales topic for LEDs. 
Also if there is any going back and forth and going on and on about legality will be deleted.

*


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## i_am_sam_i_am (Nov 2, 2017)

EPilot said:


> *Please do not turn this into a sales topic for LEDs.
> Also if there is any going back and forth and going on and on about legality will be deleted.
> 
> *


I personally was finding the thread quite informative and helpful.
Did I miss something?


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## jimothy cricket (Jul 9, 2008)

i_am_sam_i_am said:


> I personally was finding the thread quite informative and helpful.
> Did I miss something?


As was I, also thought this mod post was unnecessary and received a warning for callig him out on it. (don't ban me) Nobody is trying to sell anything either....


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

jimothy cricket said:


> As was I, also thought this mod post was unnecessary and received a warning for callig him out on it. (don't ban me) Nobody is trying to sell anything either....


Somewhere along the way (last night), DeAutoLED chimed in with their standard sales pitch of their products. That post was deleted, and the warning was posted from EPilot.


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

i_am_sam_i_am said:


> I personally was finding the thread quite informative and helpful.
> Did I miss something?


There are several different threads here discussing the pros and cons of various LED lighting options. I suspect that the moderator just wants to keep this thread more on topic. Comparing various LED options probably just belongs in a different thread.

Have Fun!

Don


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## deAutoLED.com (Jun 1, 2012)

BsickPassat said:


> Somewhere along the way (last night), DeAutoLED chimed in with their standard sales pitch of their products. That post was deleted, and the warning was posted from EPilot.


Our apologies but that is not exactly correct. We were not advertising. We were only leaving real customer feedback just like others were doing with other brands. We didn't mean to confuse the topic or you. We will look into the way we post to avoid any confusion in the future. 

Thank you


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