# CIS No-Start Fueling Problem...



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Yesterday I replaced the head on a '83 GTI and after getting everything buttoned up, the car wouldn't start. I replaced the head, CIS injector lines and installed a Volvo 240 cold air lower box. Today I replaced the fuel pump (thinking low fuel pressure might be the issue), and replaced the fuel distributor. Both parts were from an '88 Cabby. 
The problem is that there is no fuel going to the injector lines.
Here's a list of what the car has and dosn't have:
-It has spark.
*-Has fuel at the fuel filter.*
-Engine cranks with ease.
Here's what the car dosn't have:
-Does not have fuel at the injector lines on the fuel distributor.
-Does not have any fuel leaks or kinks in any of the lines.
I'm rather stuck at the moment and any help would be greatly appreciated. I havn't connected a fuel pressure gauge to check pressure yet, this will be my next step later tonight although there's plenty of fuel spraying out of the fuel filter banjo fitting when the engine is cranking. (No, it isn't a fuel leak, I just cracked loose the fitting to check for fuel)


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: CIS No-Start Fueling Problem... (idrivemyself)*

Does you cold start injector spray for a few seconds when the ignition is turned on? From the no start description I would guess not.


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## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

No, unfortunately the cold start injector does not spray when the ignition is on.


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*

If you crack the banjo fitting for fuel supply at the fuel distributor do you have pressure there? If so, check that banjo bolt to see if the internal screen has been removed (it should be - it is very small and extremely easy to clog).


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## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Yes, there is fuel and pressure at the banjo fitting for fuel supply. The screen has also been removed. I pulled up a schematic of the fuel bowls inside of the fuel distributor and am going to take it apart tonight to see if there is fuel present as well as a few other factors. I'll keep you posted and thank you for the help thus far. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*

The cold start injector gets its fuel at main pump pressure as it taps off the lower chamber of the fuel distributor - fed by the pump. So if you have reasonable fuel pressure the cold start injector should have output for a couple seconds when the ignition is switched on (assuming it is being turned on by the thermo-time switch).


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: (wclark)*

Cold start valve is NOT powered by the ignition circuit.
It is powered by the starter solenoid circuit, "terminal 50".
Cold start operates only when the starter is cranking and then only when grounded by a cold thermo-time switch or the hot start pulse relay (if so equipped).


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## tolusina (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: CIS No-Start Fueling Problem... (idrivemyself)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idrivemyself* »_...
-Engine cranks with ease...


Maybe it's cranking too easily because the cam timing is off? See this thread, lots of pics...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3256408
---
If this was a running car prior to head replacement, stop changing parts, nothing else failed while you worked on it. You've made an error in procedure, you just have to figure out what that error is and correct it.
Relax, open the hood and just look at everything, focus on those components you've just had a hand on, visualize everything you've recently done. Take a half hour walk, no iPod, no 'tex, no TV, just walk and clear you mind of everything else, when yoy return under the hood, see if whatever it is that you've overlooked doesn't suddenly come to mind.


_Quote, originally posted by *idrivemyself* »_...replaced the fuel distributor. ....from an '88 Cabby. 

Did you swap the complete Cabby sensor plate housing assembly with the fuel distributor or just the fuel distributor?
You cannot randomly pair mis-matched sensor plate assemblies and fuel distributors. 
The proportion of fuel flow to air mass is engineered into the diameter and taper of the sensor plate's cone, the length of the sensor plate lever and it's pivot point, the diameter of the fuel distributor piston and the control pressure force on it .
---

_Quote, originally posted by *idrivemyself* »_.....
The problem is that there is no fuel going to the injector lines......

Back to your primary concern, with the pump relay bypassed and pump(s) running, if you manually raise the sensor plate, is there flow from the injectors? 
Even with the injectors in place they can easily be hard squealing when they spray. Don't continue spraying them in place for long or you'll suffer hydro lock, oil dilution, etc..


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (tolusina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tolusina* »_Cold start valve is NOT powered by the ignition circuit.
It is powered by the starter solenoid circuit, "terminal 50".
Cold start operates only when the starter is cranking and then only when grounded by a cold thermo-time switch or the hot start pulse relay (if so equipped).



You are correct.


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## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

*Re: CIS No-Start Fueling Problem... (tolusina)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tolusina* »_
Maybe it's cranking too easily because the cam timing is off? See this thread, lots of pics...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3256408
---
If this was a running car prior to head replacement, stop changing parts, nothing else failed while you worked on it. You've made an error in procedure, you just have to figure out what that error is and correct it.
Relax, open the hood and just look at everything, focus on those components you've just had a hand on, visualize everything you've recently done. Take a half hour walk, no iPod, no 'tex, no TV, just walk and clear you mind of everything else, when yoy return under the hood, see if whatever it is that you've overlooked doesn't suddenly come to mind.

No, but good thought. The engine is perfectly timed (mechanically and electronically) at base settings. I'm also using the stock cam gear and not an aftermarket adjustable one which may have become loose and altered timing.


_Quote »_
Did you swap the complete Cabby sensor plate housing assembly with the fuel distributor or just the fuel distributor?
You cannot randomly pair mis-matched sensor plate assemblies and fuel distributors. 
The proportion of fuel flow to air mass is engineered into the diameter and taper of the sensor plate's cone, the length of the sensor plate lever and it's pivot point, the diameter of the fuel distributor piston and the control pressure force on it .
---
Back to your primary concern, with the pump relay bypassed and pump(s) running, if you manually raise the sensor plate, is there flow from the injectors? 
Even with the injectors in place they can easily be hard squealing when they spray. Don't continue spraying them in place for long or you'll suffer hydro lock, oil dilution, etc..


Yes, the entire Cabby fuel distribution assembly was used. No flow was obtained while the sensor plate was lifted (at any degree) either.
I did figure out the problem though. After the Cabby fuel unit didn't solve the problem I went back to the original unit and completely disassembled it. Inside each of the fuel injector bowls I found varying amounts of sludge (for lack of a better term) which is a pretty good indication to me that the engine was run for some time without a fuel filter... As to why it suddenly stopped working at this point is a mystery to me.








After which, I throughly cleaned the assembly and all additional parts, replaced the fuel filter (again...) and upon a few cranks of the engine the damn thing finally had fuel in the cylinders! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Thanks again to both of you for the help! It definitely helps having a few other minds to think a bit outside the box and narrow it down.


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