# APR k04 with watet/meth injection



## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

Im sure there is someone here running water meth with apr k04 software. 

I want to run 100 octane file with 93 octane using water meth.

If anyone has this set up and would like to share please do. 

I am looking for specifics on what nozzle to use and if there are or were any problems.

Thank you


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> Im sure there is someone here running water meth with apr k04 software.
> 
> I want to run 100 octane file with 93 octane using water meth.
> 
> ...


Whats the spec on your kit? is it MAF? MAP ? or 2d? 

The info will help figure how much to spray and approx settings . Bob.G


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

To be honest i haven't picked a kit up yet. And water/meth is new to me.

I was looking on getting some insight on what kit i should get and the best settings for it before i take the dive. 

What do you think would be best set up?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> To be honest i haven't picked a kit up yet. And water/meth is new to me.
> 
> I was looking on getting some insight on what kit i should get and the best settings for it before i take the dive.
> 
> What do you think would be best set up?


The Labonte 2D stage 3 w/m kit thats software thats written specific for FSI has worked flawless in my car almost 1 year now .  Bob.G

http://www.labontemotorsports.com/store/ccp0-catshow/Gasoline+Systems.html


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ill def check them out. Are you running APR software or are you protuned?

Would water/meth be safe to run my 100 octane file on 93?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> Ill def check them out. Are you running APR software or are you protuned?
> 
> Would water/meth be safe to run my 100 octane file on 93?


APR Stage 3 software , Ive been running 93 in the tank on the 100 octane file with W.W. fluid as w/m for 15K miles of daily driving  Bob.G


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

Thank you for all the information. 

What ratio are you using for meth 50/50?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> Thank you for all the information.
> 
> What ratio are you using for meth 50/50?


Pure windsheild washer fluid pulling from the ww fluid tank. I use the * yellow low temp prestone * 

comes in 1 gal anifreeze shape bottle $ 3 at wally world


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

and no adverse effects from it, as opposed to running normal water and meth? Id assume the detergents in the liquid might do some damage, but idk.

thats a good idea... that way you can still use your windshield washer, yet still get super chilly IATs.

my kit is sitting in my living room, but im STUPID broke right now and dont want to sit in the 108 degree Florida heat.


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm running apr k04 kit with w/m running 100oct program. No issues here.


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

What set up are you running exactly?
I just want to make sure i do this right the first time around as far as hardware. I know ill have to do some logs to make sure i am safe.

Bob: i also heard of some people having issues with using washer fluid, causing the throttle body plate to stick or fail?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> What set up are you running exactly?
> I just want to make sure i do this right the first time around as far as hardware. I know ill have to do some logs to make sure i am safe.
> 
> Bob: i also heard of some people having issues with using washer fluid, causing the throttle body plate to stick or fail?


The only TB failures that ive heard and seen have been people using a strong mix with meth causing damage , not ww fluid . Bob.G


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

ohhhhh thats good to know. I was under the assumption that it was the detergent in the ww fluid that was causing the failures.

So i would be safe either way (meth or ww fluid)?

When you run the ww fluid, do you mix it at a certain ratio or just straight in?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> ohhhhh thats good to know. I was under the assumption that it was the detergent in the ww fluid that was causing the failures.
> 
> So i would be safe either way (meth or ww fluid)?
> 
> When you run the ww fluid, do you mix it at a certain ratio or just straight in?


B4 I used WW fluid I ran straight distilled water all last summer with no issue . Ive found that the little meth thats in the prestone ( yellow ) ww fluid works well and havnt had TB failures. 

The people with TB failures mix there own mixure , I suspect the higher meth content is causing the prob . Bob.G


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

You said to get the 2D kit. What is the difference between 2D and MAP sensor kits?


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

also when i start hooking the injection kit, should i do anything with the vagcom as far as logs? What nozzle size should i use?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> You said to get the 2D kit. What is the difference between 2D and MAP sensor kits?


2D uses BOTH MAP sensor AND Injector duty cycle to base its spray curve. 

When you order your kit based on your HP they will include the proper nozzle ( next size nozzle also) , then you fine tune it via the instruction setup .

Make sure if you do order the 2D kit ( which is worth the extra money ) let them know its FSI car so the correct firm-ware is installed . Bob.G

BTW when you call labonte for tech support you get the owner on the phone ( Dan Labonte ) :what:


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

Where did you mount the pump?


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## jpiwko58 (Dec 25, 2008)

the kit i chose was snow performance 2.0T FSI Stage 2 Kit. It's built for our MKV 2.0T engines running the MAF sensor. I also added the Safe injection module for that extra piece of mind for aggressive tuning and the Flow rate gauge so I can keep an eye on things and dual 375ml/min nozzles . Hopefully my car is done here soon and I'll put some pictures up. As far as running ww fluid as a water/meth sub. The cheapest wally world stuff is JUST 50% denatured water / 50% methanol. Everyone one of my buddy's has a water/meth setup on their cars ranging from home brew hobbs switch to windshield squirter pump low budget home build we threw together to very fancy high end kits (like mine  ). They're all basically the same thing. A hobb switch of sorts w/ a pump motor which is triggered under boost/vac set values. Never once has any of them had ANY issues running them w/ ww fluid from wally world (the cheap blue stuff lol). rangin from this crazy ass srt4 which i helped him every step of the way:






I'll have to link up w/ Trav & bryan & Eric for their youtube vids. All using water/meth from wally world for the better part 3 years strong. All 4 cars stupid fast/ high hp and 0 w/m issues (broken pieces of the drive train different story lol) Hope this helps make you feel more comfy about ww fluid. :laugh:


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

i was away all weekend.. When are you having the meth injected? I know some people start at 5psi and go full at 10?


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## Banned 4 Life (Jan 25, 2007)

rracerguy717 said:


> APR Stage 3 software , Ive been running 93 in the tank on the 100 octane file with W.W. fluid as w/m for 15K miles of daily driving  Bob.G


Hey Bob, what kind of w/m consumption are you seeing? How many quarts or gallons per full tank og gas?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

i just installed mine the other day, I go through about 1 gallon of WW fluid per gas tank... except the first gallon. that sucker was gone in less than half a tank. lmao


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

so with the labonte kits would i want the s4 or the ISG stage 3?


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

Crossfire636 said:


> so with the labonte kits would i want the s4 or the ISG stage 3?


Bob and I are both running the Stage 3 kit. I dont know of many guys around that have the S4 kit yet. Seems very nice and simplifies a few things and adds a few options. Either one would work fine for what your doing.


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

I'm running apr k04 with Devil's own kit. I have run it on the 100 octane program with no problems but I prefer to keep it on the 91 program. I always have the thought in the back of my head that if something goes wrong with the system my motor could be toast. I have run and done logs and I get very minimal timing pull with the 100 octane file on 91 gas with the meth. I run 40% meth 60% water, mixed from 100% raw methanol. I have heard of some ww fluids causing damage, so peace of mind mixing my own.


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

thank you for the reply. i should be doing this with in the next few weeks so i will keep everyone posted.

So as far as getting the meth to spray right and tuning i call labonte directly?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Banned 4 Life said:


> Hey Bob, what kind of w/m consumption are you seeing? How many quarts or gallons per full tank og gas?


On 100 octane tune 93 in the tank , If I drive it hard Ill go through 1 gallion every tank of fuel 
( approx 300 miles ) , If I drive it easy I use 1 gal every 2nd tank. 

Ive been using 93 program with 93 in the tank with W/M last few weeks to see what im using because I havnt used it ( 93 with 93 ) after I installed my W/M kit im on 3rd tank so far .

This is the nice thing about the Labonte stage 3 kit kit IMO it uses only what it needs based on IDC and boost . 

I do have it set very low @ 1 PSI of boost so if your cruising on highway and your feathering the pedal it will start spraying it early.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> thank you for the reply. i should be doing this with in the next few weeks so i will keep everyone posted.
> 
> So as far as getting the meth to spray right and tuning i call labonte directly?


No Call them when you order your kit and let them know you have FSI engine so they get the correct firm-ware loaded on your Stage 3 controller , then follow the setup instructions its very simple . Use the smaller nozzle that comes in the kit to start , it comes with 2 nozzles .  Bob.G


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

k sounds good bob

How come you have it start at 1psi? Would it be safe to start at like 5 or 7 psi with out and detonation?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> k sounds good bob
> 
> How come you have it start at 1psi? Would it be safe to start at like 5 or 7 psi with out and detonation?


These ECU are fussy IMO in these cars when they see voltage value (Knock value NOT actual knock ) based on other feedback from other sensor it may start to pull timing back so I start spraying early to help prevent that . My car in the very hot 100 degrees heat the last few days pulled as hard as it does on 60 degree day , NO lost of power :thumbup: . Bob.G


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

Now with the controller they provide you, can you adjust the flow?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Crossfire636 said:


> Now with the controller they provide you, can you adjust the flow?


You can adjust a few different things to get more flow like installing Bigger nozzle or setup and tell controller that you have more HP then you really have . This controller will spray more or less based on demand on the OEM fuel system . If your IDC is higher its going to spray more . Bob.G


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## Crossfire636 (Jun 12, 2008)

Bob i cant say thank you enough for all the information you have provided. If i could get a cold six pack out to you i would lol.

Would you mind if i pm when i get the kit. Im sure i will have some questions during the installation.


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## mikey3117 (Jan 4, 2008)

I went with CoolingMist since I liked the controller.


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## amckernon1028 (Apr 14, 2009)

I am not sure what system I want to purchase. I was going to pick up the DO kit but now I am thinking about going with the new LM S4 but I don't want to spend the money. 

I am not even sure if I will run it daily or even keep it on so spending the big money for the S4 setup just seems all little much for me. But the more I read about it's fail safe setup the more I think its the way to go.


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## lnghrngti (Sep 8, 2007)

Bringing this thread back from the dead... just wondering for those of you who's 100oct tune is working with 91/93oct fuel + w/m, are you running multiple injectors? Also, is there much gain with 93 oct tune with w/m vs. no spray?

Thanks!


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## lnghrngti (Sep 8, 2007)

Bump! No one has input?? Need some help, running DO stg2 kit, start at 5psi, full at 10psi. Unable to run APR's 100oct, getting CFs of 8 or so.


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