# G60 oil vs API specifications



## hantonyc1986 (Aug 13, 2017)

Hi, I am torn, I have 2 choices for my oil , fuchs 10w40 full synth that have 501-505 vw norms, BUT it have the SN api norm so it's made for the newer cars, I have a 10w60 full synth that does not have any norms on it except fiat , BUT it SL so it's made for 2004 - cars , so as far as norms it would be better for my old engine my shop manuel states between 5w50 and 10w60 ( I guess back in 1990 it was mineral oils ?? ) for exterior temps that goes up to 40C but the manual dosen't gives any norms so I guess any oils should be fine as long as I have the right API and the right grade ? ( I only use my car in the summer and it's really hot right now )


what should I use ?

thanks.


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## Hellenic Vanagon (Aug 3, 2010)

hantonyc1986 said:


> Hi, I am torn, I have 2 choices for my oil , fuchs 10w40 full synth that have 501-505 vw norms, BUT it have the SN api norm so it's made for the newer cars, I have a 10w60 full synth that does not have any norms on it except fiat , BUT it SL so it's made for 2004 - cars , so as far as norms it would be better for my old engine my shop manuel states between 5w50 and 10w60 ( I guess back in 1990 it was mineral oils ?? ) for exterior temps that goes up to 40C but the manual dosen't gives any norms so I guess any oils should be fine as long as I have the right API and the right grade ? ( I only use my car in the summer and it's really hot right now )
> 
> 
> what should I use ?
> ...


Use the trully/fully/only group V synthetic Redline 5w30 (=5w40), noting that any gasket not in perfect condition will leak.

The absolute solution.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Hellenic Vanagon said:


> Use the trully/fully/only group V synthetic Redline 5w30 (=5w40), noting that any gasket not in perfect condition will leak.
> 
> The absolute solution.


Hate to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as only Group V oil. They are all blends with Group IV and other basestock groups, for the additive package.


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## Hellenic Vanagon (Aug 3, 2010)

*Bursting bubbles.*



BsickPassat said:


> Hate to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as only Group V oil. They are all blends with Group IV and other basestock groups, for the additive package.


Red line declares:

"Red Line formulates fully-synthetic oils and chemically-advanced additives using the world’s finest base stocks. Rather than cutting costs by blending in petroleum products, Red Line's motor oils use superior ester base stocks that provide extreme stability at high temperatures and superior film strength at lower viscosities where more power can be produced.

REDLINE 5W-30 SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL

Ester-based Full Synthetic Group V with Zinc & Phosphorus Antiwear".


You have to burst their bubble too.

Red Line is recognized, in general, as the only purely group V oil manufacturer today. 
(Other companies withdrawn because of the high costs, as they said).


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Its marketing. They are going to stretch the truth a bit. The group IV is needed for the additives since they don't play well with group V basestock.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Hellenic Vanagon (Aug 3, 2010)

BsickPassat said:


> Its marketing. They are going to stretch the truth a bit. The group IV is needed for the additives since they don't play well with group V basestock.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


The "marketing" reasoning can be said about any product.

In some cases there is a deception and, sooner or later, is revealed, f.ex., the "green diesels"or the "direct injection", to name a few.

In the case of the red line all the data, or better, the theory and the practice coincide. 

So are you ready to prove the "Red Line's deception"? It will be very interesting, indeed.

The Syncro Heresy


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## lubelord (Jun 11, 2013)

Hellenic Vanagon said:


> Red Line is recognized, in general, as the only purely group V oil manufacturer today.
> (Other companies withdrawn because of the high costs, as they said).


Except for Motul, of course, which was actually the first manufacturer to start using Esters in automotive oil.


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## Hellenic Vanagon (Aug 3, 2010)

matt_mk6 said:


> Except for Motul, of course, which was actually the first manufacturer to start using Esters in automotive oil.


You are right. Thank you.

Any way, trying a small, updated, research, found that there are a lot of negative discussions/evidences about this subject, so I am not absolutely sure any more. 
(In fact, I may be wrong). 

The, lifetime, research continuous.

The Syncro Heresy


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4538460/1

Site full of people smarter than me

Is the basestock 100% synthetic? Yes
Is it 100% ester? No

Is it a bad oil? NO. I use it also for its healthy dosage of molybdenum and having some esters in the mix

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

and read this:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/esters-in-synthetic-lubricants/


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## Hellenic Vanagon (Aug 3, 2010)

BsickPassat said:


> https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4538460/1
> 
> Site full of people smarter than me
> 
> ...


This may explain a lot about some negativeness: 

"From Polaris labs.

Elemental Analysis:
Silicon; 15 ppm
Sodium; 11
Moly; 670
Boron; 120
Magnesium; 14
Calcium; 2469
Phos; 1221
Zinc; 1504

KV100 = 10.5 cSt
TBN = 8.55
Oxidation = 108
Nitration = 8

When I had Polaris do a UOA on Redline out of my Camaro back in March, they got oxidation and nitration numbers of 115 and 31, respectively, and flagged oxidation as severely high. But this VOA shows 108 for new oil, so they were being unnecessarily alarmist:
"Lubricant and filter change is suggested if not done at sampling time; Infrared results indicate OXIDATION is SEVERELY
HIGH; Infrared results indicate that NITRATION is at a SEVERE LEVEL; Total Base Number is MODERATELY LOW; Abrasives
(silicon/dirt) are at a MINOR LEVEL; Please submit a new lube for BASELINE REFERENCE; In order to properly compare data to
the right standards, we need manufacturer and model of the unit, and the manufacturer, type and grade of the lubricant;
Flagged data has been rechecked and confirmed;"

But one question I do have: Is an increase in Nitration from 8 to 31 cause for concern?"

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2635056/1

So the "oxidation" is just the esters included in the synthesis!

Impressive ignorance of the specialists.


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## Hellenic Vanagon (Aug 3, 2010)

The Syncro Heresy


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Hellenic Vanagon said:


> This may explain a lot about some negativeness:
> 
> "From Polaris labs.
> 
> ...


The nitration is leaning on the high side. It's usually a sign that you need to check (and replace) your spark plugs.

THe "specialists" at the oil testing lab refer to their textbook, which doesn't cover the nuances of oil formulation.

The "high silicon" on the VOA, is not dirt, but is part of the anti-foaming additive used in the additive pack.

THis is why UOA's alone are not that useful, unless you've done VOA's get the oil baseline. SOme people are too cheap (or ignorant) to do a VOA.


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## Hellenic Vanagon (Aug 3, 2010)

BsickPassat said:


> The nitration is leaning on the high side. It's usually a sign that you need to check (and replace) your spark plugs.
> 
> THe "specialists" at the oil testing lab refer to their textbook, which doesn't cover the nuances of oil formulation.
> 
> ...


But in this UOA of an unused, virgin, oil, they rate as oxidity the presence of the esters!


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Hellenic Vanagon said:


> But in this UOA of an unused, virgin, oil, they rate as oxidity the presence of the esters!


Like I said...



> *THe "specialists" at the oil testing lab refer to their textbook, which doesn't cover the nuances of oil formulation*.


Unused, virgin oil analysis is referred to as "Virgin Oil Analysis" or VOA.

Blackstone called my VOA sample years ago of Renewable Lubes 5w40 as "used oil" and noted high TAN, even though the nuance of using bio-based ester is a high TAN number off the bat.


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