# Top HP results..



## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

What are the top HP results from VW 8v water cooled engine *with* forced induction and *without*. Also maybe list what was done to the car







Iv been curious and I bet some others are.
Does anybody have any numbers? Personal dynos ?
Input please


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## Sagaris (Oct 10, 2009)

*Re: Top HP results.. (JoggerNot)*

A friend of mine had his 8V Digifant modded to the max, It was bored out to a 2.1, had thorough headwork, lightweight internals, larger VAM, adjustable fuel pressure ( had been dyno tuned for proper injector size and FPR setting) a wideband O2 sensor, header, pretty hot camshaft.
He really had done everything streetable that you could do to an 8v without getting into expensive hardcore racing modifications like electric water pumps and dry sump oil system. 
I do not have any dyno sheets from him but his highest dyno was only something to the effect of 135 whp. And that was after ~$8,000 into his engine. 
Years ago my most heavily modified 8v had been converted to manual steering, removed the A/C, had a 270 cam, some port work, the dual downpipe manifold, upgraded plug wires, chip, good exhaust system, and a k&n filter. I managed just over 100 whp. maybe 103 or so. It really wasn't worth the ~2,000 I had into mine. 

A turbo is definitely the way to make power. The only 8v turbo I have seen in person used a mitsubishi turbo and ran 7psi on stock internals with a custom fuel management. He dynoed 140 whp. 
My own personal opinion about tuning is this: Turbos are the most cost effective way to go fast. but I personally hate the drama and constant babysitting required to own a turbo car that was not initially engineered to be turboed. There are always fueling and spark issues, then you get boost leaks and with the custom fuel management theres always a better tune so you spend all your time trying to get it dyno tuned just right just to find out that its still not quite right. 
But most of all, I don't like the way turbo cars behave. Suddenly building boost at mid-corner is no bueno>
So I prefer a nice N/A engine. But it is so awfully expensive to take a 100hp engine and get 50 more hp out of it.
So you have a few options with N/A
1)Mod the hell out of it for mad $$$$







and end up with a car that is nearly undrivable due to the peaky power output and the fact that it wont pass emissions.
2)Lose some weight and change the gearing for added benefit
3)Keep the car properly tuned (maintenance wise) and just accept it for what it is, focusing your desire to modify on the suspension, brakes, or restoring the body and interior. 
4)Buy a car that is powerful enough for you in stock form, spend the few $$$$ you would have spent on engine mods/swaps on some nice tires, wheels, suspension, and interior.
I wish I had understood #3 or #4 while I was in high school. I spent way too much money trying to make slow cars go fast, with high expectations from the modifications I did. 
I just spent $1500 on a rust free 1991 325i from California and in stock form, it is faster than my modified 8v's ever were, much more reliabe, and handles better as well. 

Ultimately the decision is up to you, I just wish I had realized #3 or #4 when I was younger. 
Apologies for the wall-o-text post


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Top HP results.. (JoggerNot)*

How about these #s: 1.8L, 14 to 1 compression, Eurospec head, Web cam, ported Mk1intake, LT1 throttle body, Megasquirt with waste spark ignition, 25mm SIR (single inlet restrictor, the engine has to suck it's air through a 1 inch straw!) 150whp, 135wtq one of these days we are gonna take off the restrictor and see what it can really do!


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Top HP results.. (Prof315)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prof315* »_How about these #s: 1.8L, 14 to 1 compression, Eurospec head, Web cam, ported Mk1intake, LT1 throttle body, Megasquirt with waste spark ignition, 25mm SIR (single inlet restrictor, the engine has to suck it's air through a 1 inch straw!) 150whp, 135wtq one of these days we are gonna take off the restrictor and see what it can really do!

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
MKiiroc made in the range of 140whp with just a stock head and 288 cam I believe, ran a 14 flat.
I made probably around 100whp with a stock cam and other small mods.
Its all in tuning.
Steve-


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

First off, any serious NA 8v involves A) removing the stock intake for either ITBs or carbs (I made 105whp/119tq with my bone stock 8v, neusepeed 256* cam, 1.5" exhaust, and dual dellorto carbs), or B) modifying the stocker (a la NY Fam/Scientific Rabbit).


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_First off, any serious NA 8v involves A) removing the stock intake for either ITBs or carbs (I made 105whp/119tq with my bone stock 8v, neusepeed 256* cam, 1.5" exhaust, and dual dellorto carbs), or B) modifying the stocker (a la NY Fam/Scientific Rabbit). 

Exactly!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
It can be done!
Steve-


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: Top HP results.. (JoggerNot)*

Current setup put down 178hp at the wheels. I'm looking for closer to 190 with this year's motor. N/A motor on webers.








The dip around 4500 rpm is the VTAK yo.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Im shooting for a healthy 150whp possibly a little more. 
standalone itb's .500 lift 300 duration 102 lobe center cam. Shim under lifters, eurospec head 42x35mm valves
2.0 bottom end relatively stock 11:5 compression


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Eurotrash rabbit is up there too he has a similar setup to me and mkII roc he is just using a crossflow head its unlikely he is making less than 150whp


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

There is a good list that i maintain over on the G60 forum:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1
i can't speak for folks running turbos... but for folks running twin screws on an 8v... Andrew Stauffer's is currently #1.








and the folks above are among the best NA...
PS: Andrew dyno'd 160whp with ITBs (at around 6800)... and around 134 wtq at (5600rpm) prior to installing the twin screw kit...


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

ive seen people break 300whp on 2.0 turbos 
hater dave being one of them


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Yup, but i've never seen a comprehensive maintained list of 8v turbos... well perhaps a long time back on hardcorevw lol









_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_ive seen people break 300whp on 2.0 turbos 
hater dave being one of them


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Top HP results.. (Sagaris)*

Hi Sagaris,
What you wrote below is exactly why i used to make twin screw kits for the 8v cars... it totally preserves the 8v torque curve down low, and the part throttle characteristics (since the compressor is linked to the crankshaft). The car basically drives like the 8v you always knew, but on total steroids. Punch the throttle down low and 200 wtq is there. There really is no sensation of boost at all (unless you happen to look at the boost gauge), which is why i think Neal Tovsen (top VW autocrosser) loved running it.
Best of all if you have a head/cam combo that really flows, it totally makes use of that as well... so long as there is enough vacuum to open the supercharger bypass









_Quote, originally posted by *Sagaris* »_But most of all, I don't like the way turbo cars behave. Suddenly building boost at mid-corner is no bueno>


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I coveted your kit for a long time peter, came to the realization i would never have the money to buy it haha 90k in college loans woo


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## 84_GLI_coupe (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

The 1802cc 8v in my daily '86 Jetta made 118 whp and 120 ft.lbs last summer. TT 268° cam, 10:1 compression, AEG exhaust manifold and dual downpipe, no cat, modified Eurosport 2.25" exhaust, untouched intake manifold (still to be done), balanced and blueprinted bottom end, and a 40mm Digi head that got my special treatment. CIS-Lambda and knock-sensing ignition swapped in, was CIS-basic before.
The block came from my MK1 which, under my solid lifter head, with a Schrick 276° and running MSnS, made 144 whp while it was gummed up with crank shrapnel.
I seem to have done pretty well with 1.8 8v's over the years, I certainly do have a reputation locally.







I do all of my own work (except crank/flywheel balancing), so my build costs are always less than what a 16v core engine is worth.










_Modified by 84_GLI_coupe at 6:38 PM 1-27-2010_


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## 89getlucky (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: (84_GLI_coupe)*









Volkswagen 1.9L 8-valve, built in 1986 by *Drake Engineering.
Drake Stage 3 modified original 1975 solid lifter head.
82.5 bore, 90.5 stroke, 1935 cc, compression ratio: 9.2 to 1.
8V head with 40.5/34mm valves and .410/.240 Drake sport camshaft and adjustable cam pulley.
Weber 32/36 DFEV progressive carburetor, original intake manifold, enhanced flow air cleaner.
High capacity oil pump, baffled 5 qt. pan, 10-row thermo controlled cooler, ss lines.
Recurved Bosch vac/mech advance distributor, Pertronics electronic points, Bosch coil.
Drake modified 11-bolt crankshaft to F & S pressure plate.
Euro GTI exhaust manifold, Drake dual downpipe, catalytic converter
Techtonics Tuning exhaust system with resonator and Borla muffler
Horsepower: 143 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 138 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm 
http://pws.prserv.net/gforbess...o.htm
oldschool.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 89getlucky (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: (89getlucky)*


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

^ I want that.
Thanks for the input guys


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## superl8 (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: (84_GLI_coupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84_GLI_coupe* »_. CIS-Lambda and knock-sensing ignition swapped in, was CIS-basic before.

What's with the change in ignition? Is it a more agressive timing curve?


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## 84_GLI_coupe (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: (superl8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *superl8* »_
What's with the change in ignition? Is it a more agressive timing curve?

CIS-basic comes with a vacuum advance distributor. The engine I built is a conservative (for me) 10:1, so I wanted the knock sensor for safety (though I only use good brand 91/92 octane). The ignition timing is taken care of by a seperate "computer" and does have a better ignition curve for my setup.
I haven't even used a Bosch style ignition module for a year now, and I'm not running an aftermarket unit like MSD/etc. Still working out the kinks in the setup, but the module does have a higher amperage limit.


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