# DIY 02J Output Flange Seal Replacement (02M similar)



## Bora Jon (May 31, 2007)

*Disclaimer:* _This is merely a guide to assist in the repair or maintenance of your vehicle. Any damage or improper repair is not my responsibility, work on your car at your own risk. Be sure to use all safety precautions and proper lift/jacking techniques, if you are unsure, see other DIY threads for further information, or seek (professional) help._

*Problem:* Old leaky oil seals at the axle output flanges on your Manual Trans. 

*Solution:* Replace at home and save $$$$

This procedure was carried out outside of the car during a clutch replacement, removing axles and transmission can be found in one of two clutch replacement DIY threads. The Bentley manual recommends doing this in the car. IT is possible with the correct tools and adequate space under the car.

*PROCEDURES:*

1) Place your car on jackstands and access the transmission drain plug. you will need to drain the fluid from your transmission, or it will leak out later when you remove your output flanges...

2) remove the axles from your output flange, M8 or M10 triple square bits, 6 bolts on each flange. (Bentley manual recommends replacement each use.)

3) Use two axle bolts to assist in removal of the flange. This will give you something to wrench against since there is no resistance on the differential.










4) Use a 16MM wrench to hold the flange, or a screwdriver per the bentley. I found a box end wrench much easier to use. Now use a 6mm Hex Bit to remove the center bolt in the output flange that goes into the differential. (ratchet drive recommended)



















5) The Flange is spring loaded into the transmission case. It will push outwards as you are removing the bolt. Use caution if you are under the car when doing this, if there is still fluid in the transmission it will leak out at this point, so a catch basin is recommended under your work area. The inner section of the flange is splined, so be careful no to try and twist during removal.




























6) Ok, now we are making progress. Look at those bearings...










Next we are going to want to clean off all that gunk and dirt that has accumulated around the seal area, we don't want that floating around in the trans. Use a paper towel, regularly turing to a clean side. (I didn't have this brain wave until I went to pull the seals out, everything is nice and clean in the Bentley)










7) Use a slide hammer with a hook end, or an appropriate seal puller to remove the old seal(s) It makes sense to do both sides if you are already doing one... be careful not to damage the metal insert or aluminum casting of the transmission case if you are on the driver's side of the differential.



















The inner section of the seal is quite hard, and will not want to come out, work at it in several places, and be patient. 

8) Now that we have that pesky leaking seal out, let's get things cleaned up, there will be a small amount of gear oil accumulated where the seal was, clean that out with a CLEAN rag or towel. you want a pristine surface for your new seals to go into. 



















9) Get your new seal, note there are two sides, one has a recess. This is the inner section of the seal, it contains a metal spring inside around the inner section of the seal. Place the new seal into the end of the case.



















You will now use a bearing race/seal installation tool. (VW tool #3106 for 02J or 3305 for 02M) I used one from a common big box auto parts store. Be sure that you are driving the seal in square to the case, if it installs crooked it may not seal properly.



















Drive the seal fully into the recess being careful not to damage the case. 

10) Now that your seal is installed you will need to add some grease to the seal. There is a v-groove in the inside of the seal that goes against the output flange. Fill this with a high quality grease, I use synthetic for water resistance and longevity. do not overfill the seal, just enough to make good contact with the flange.










Use care not to get grease inside of the seal/transmission case.










Clean up any excess grease with a clean rag/towel.

11) You're almost done! reinstall the flange in the case, gently seat the spline of the flange into the differential. Here's the tricky part, you will need to push the flange in to compress the spring before the bolt will be able to catch in the differential. 

once you have gotten the bolt started, use your bolts and wrench to tighten the bolt, and torque to 18 ft-lbs (25Nm). 










marvel at your work! no more leaky seals here. 










Installation is reverse of removal for axles, when installing the bolts, use a cross pattern like wheel lugs, torque to 52 ft-lbs (70Nm) for M10 fasteners or 30 ft-lbs (40Nm) for M8 fasteners. (again the Bentley recommends replacement after each use)

Be sure to top off your transmission using the appropriate GL4 VW approved fluid as specified in your owner's manual. 

Lower car off jack stands, wash up and enjoy! 

I hope this answers some questions for anyone with leaking seals, the actual work is pretty straight forward and easy. I found little to no information on MK4 transmission seals, so here is a DIY! :beer:

Thanks to all who have made threads like these in the past. I wouldn't have been able to do half the things I have to my car easily without a manual if it weren't for them. :beer:


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

Outstanding DIY. :beer:

Great pics and clear instructions, nice job! I know it takes more time to do the work and grab the camera every few minutes with greasy hands, get the parts lined up to get a good pic, etc... so nice one:thumbup:

I'm well impressed with the bits about the seal area being pristine and being picky about getting debris into the trans... very important.
I'm also impressed you mentioned the grease in the sealing lips, most people don't do that, and it is the proper method for radial shaft oil seals that have an outer dust lip and inner sealing lip.

A few minor comments, if you don't mind them...



Bora Jon said:


> 6) Ok, now we are making progress. Look at those bearings...


Funky black.... ewww!
If you want to avoid that with your next new trans (or properly cleaned and rebuilt trans), change the oil regularly.
How regular?
I'm not sure:laugh:
I'd say at least every couple years or so... the more often you do it, the cleaner it will be inside the trans. Dirty oil has contamination. Contamination is not good for preloaded bearings, so fresh clean oil won't hurt a thing... lifetime oil be damned
Old trans I open with old oil are coated in that black gunk. Race trans I open that have regular changes, they look new inside.



Bora Jon said:


> 9) Get your new seal, note there are two sides, one has a recess. This is the inner section of the seal, it contains a metal spring inside around the inner section of the seal. Place the new seal into the end of the case.


Lube the outside of the seal and inside of the trans bore with trans fluid or oil on install.



Bora Jon said:


> 10) Now that your seal is installed you will need to add some grease to the seal. There is a v-groove in the inside of the seal that goes against the output flange. Fill this with a high quality grease, I use synthetic for water resistance and longevity. do not overfill the seal, just enough to make good contact with the flange.
> 
> Use care not to get grease inside of the seal/transmission case.


Too late!
Grease is already inside there.... VW uses it when they build them. Behind the sync keys, I find grease still packed in sometimes even after decades of use. They pack the keys with grease to hold them in place in the hubs during assembly.

A little grease in the trans won't hurt anything, it'll get thinned out and smooshed around if it mixes with the oil, and if it is like the sync key grease, it might just hang out there in the crevices.

They also use it on the 020 for the bronze conical thrust rings behind the flanges. Your flanges extend into the trans, so the bronze ring slides on and won't go anywhere. On the 020, it wants to fall out of the diff carrier sometimes, so a little grease will hold it in place.... you know what... I think that is the instructions for the Peloquin 80% kit for the 020... using grease to hold the washer in place until you get the flange installed... 
At any rate, a little grease inside won't hurt anything.

Once again, nice job:thumbup:


----------



## Bora Jon (May 31, 2007)

Thanks! I had a hard time finding anything pertinent to the 02J when I was having trouble, so I broke down and bought the bentley. 

I know the trans oil was gross the first time I changed it, I was sad to see how badly this car had been beaten before I bought it. I've had it two years now and changed the fluid three times. going to change it again this spring after the new clutch is broken in. compliments from you tell me that I did a good job. Thanks again! :beer:


----------



## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Bora Jon said:


> Thanks! I had a hard time finding anything pertinent to the 02J when I was having trouble, so I broke down and bought the bentley.
> 
> I know the trans oil was gross the first time I changed it, I was sad to see how badly this car had been beaten before I bought it. I've had it two years now and changed the fluid three times. going to change it again this spring after the new clutch is broken in. compliments from you tell me that I did a good job. Thanks again! :beer:


Nice write up, we need stuff like this as a sticky.


----------



## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

Bora Jon said:


> *Disclaimer:* _This is merely a guide to assist in the repair or maintenance of your vehicle. Any damage or improper repair is not my responsibility, work on your car at your own risk. Be sure to use all safety precautions and proper lift/jacking techniques, if you are unsure, see other DIY threads for further information, or seek (professional) help._
> 
> *Problem:* Old leaky oil seals at the axle output flanges on your Manual Trans.
> 
> ...


 ok i see you say to install the flange you just push and thread the bolt but its not that easy at least for me. i pushed it till it bottomed out and the bolt still wouldnt thread:banghead:, is there a tool i need or am i doing something wrong?


----------



## Bora Jon (May 31, 2007)

d18tfoltz said:


> ok i see you say to install the flange you just push and thread the bolt but its not that easy at least for me. i pushed it till it bottomed out and the bolt still wouldnt thread:banghead:, is there a tool i need or am i doing something wrong?


 The spring has to be pre-loaded to get the threads of the bolt to engage, it's sometimes difficult with one person, if someone can help you start the bolt or press in the flange to compress the spring it may make things easier. 

the flange really needs to be pushed in squarely to get the bolt in, so it can be difficult one handed. hope this helps.


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

Bora Jon said:


> the flange really needs to be pushed in squarely to get the bolt in, so it can be difficult one handed. hope this helps.


 That reminded me of this pic someone sent showing how they got around compressing the flanges...


----------



## d18tfoltz (Feb 5, 2009)

well i figured out why the flange wouldnt go in all the way, called aptuning where they intalled a peloquin lsd and they said with the lsd you dont use the spring and the bearings that are on it. took all of it off and wa la went on perfect.


----------



## 35i 2000 (Jan 27, 2005)

great write up!

i love how the output flanges are held in by a bolt on 02J's! 020's there is those awful c-clips what a pain


----------



## Fergieflyer11 (Nov 4, 2015)

*The bearings inside of the seal*

So I am pretty much doing this same project, however the bearings after the seal are all torn apart. I've got all other parts to that point but I can't find the correct name or for that matter the correct part number for whatever the bearings are inside of that. Differential bearing? Output shaft bearing?


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

Fergieflyer11 said:


> So I am pretty much doing this same project, however the bearings after the seal are all torn apart. I've got all other parts to that point but I can't find the correct name or for that matter the correct part number for whatever the bearings are inside of that. Differential bearing? Output shaft bearing?


The bearings inside the casing I call the diff bearings. They are tapered bearings and you have to have the casing opened up to replace them, they cannot be done from the outside or via the flange holes when the flanges are removed.

If you mean the bronze colored conical thrust rings, the small cone-shaped rings that stay on the flange shaft, those CAN be replaced without opening the trans casing. They are fragile, and often broken into 2 or more pieces. If these are the parts you mean, let me know the year/model of the car being worked on and I can try to look up the VW part numbers for those bronze rings.

If you mean the bearings further inside the trans, past the flange seals, the bearings with the individual rollers, those are the tapered diff bearings and they can only be replaced once the trans is split open fully and disassembled.

The bronze conical thrust rings will have to be purchased from VW, the tapered bearings inside the trans that the diff spins on can be purchased from VW, but I would try to avoid that as they'll be expensive through VW. 
On the bearings themselves, once removed, you'll find bearing numbers. Something like LM29749/LM29710 on both the bearing race and the actual bearing cone itself. Use these numbers to buy replacement bearings from a bearing supplier, they'll be much cheaper than buying from VW. 

**Note... LM29710/LM29749 are NOT going to be the correct numbers for the 02J, those are the numbers for the 020 diff bearings, but there will be a number similar to that on the bearing parts inside the trans. 
**I believe the 02J bearing numbers will be LM300811 (cup) and LM300849 (cone), the cone being the actual bearing and the cup being the outer race.... I think that is the correct bearing for the 02A and it should be the same for the 02J, but verify this against the bearings you remove from the trans :thumbup:

Brian


----------



## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

I have a similar issue on my 02j where the diff bearing cage has been destroyed (and even missing 2 of the little roller bearings..cant find them) The tapered bronze ring was broken in 5 pieces and what I call the 'spring cup' (the washer that fits over the stub axle spring and is between the bronze tapered ring and said spring) was chewed into many pieces and is what I believe destroyed the stub axle seal.

This has actually happened to both sides now, the passenger side being the first side that went in this manner. I'm sure you can imagine this happening with the movement of the spinning bearing assembly catching the ends of the broken pieces of the spring cup/washer and forcing them through the stub axle seal. I pulled the seal and there was no rubber part left...just the outer ring....puddles of oil.. and slung all over the engine bay and steering rack.

I built this thing some time back in 2013, not sure the mileage but it has a gear kit from eurospecsport and a wavtrac. I don't remember if I used the old shim behind the diff race or if I ordered one of a different size, I remember I ordered other shims but anyway if it was shimmed incorrectly could there be movement enough for the cage of the diff bearing contact the spring cup? That would have to be ALOT of play right? ...and the tranns probably wouldn't have lasted as long as it has? I do run the super bullet proof Raxles and they are heavy, think that matters at all?



no matter what, I at least have to replace diff bearings.. oh yay..


----------



## ArclitGold (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for this!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## manoweb (Jan 27, 2014)

Excuse me but... what is the part number of these output seals?

084409189B maybe??


----------



## ratimand (Nov 27, 2013)

manoweb said:


> Excuse me but... what is the part number of these output seals?
> 
> 084409189B maybe??


That is the correct number

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## ratimand (Nov 27, 2013)

Does any one have an idea where this pin came from? I am attempting to put the flange back in but I have nowhere to thread in the center hex bolt

Sent from my Nexus 6P using
Tap







atalk


----------



## userpike (Oct 21, 2010)

That pin is supposed to be there and is normally hidden by the washer dealio that the bolt screws into.. where did that part go??

You might need to open up the trans..


----------



## ratimand (Nov 27, 2013)

userpike said:


> That pin is supposed to be there and is normally hidden by the washer dealio that the bolt screws into.. where did that part go??
> 
> You might need to open up the trans..


Thanks for the info. Found the threaded washer at the bottom of the transmission. After hours of fishing with a small magnet got it sit back in it's place. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Justin_DeSilva (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks so much for the tutorial. I'm trying to find the Radial Shaft Sealing grease but the nearest dealerships don't carry any in stock. Does anyone know if I can use GKN CV grease instead?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/radial-shaft-sealing-grease/g052128a1/


----------



## nonamed (May 26, 2013)

Bora Jon said:


> *Disclaimer:* _This is merely a guide to assist in the repair or maintenance of your vehicle. Any damage or improper repair is not my responsibility, work on your car at your own risk. Be sure to use all safety precautions and proper lift/jacking techniques, if you are unsure, see other DIY threads for further information, or seek (professional) help._
> 
> *Problem:* Old leaky oil seals at the axle output flanges on your Manual Trans.
> 
> ...


I have the leaking problem on my 02M transmission. Do I have to completely remove front axle to get the access and replace the seal or I can just unscrew the axle where it goes into transmission not touching hub side (I will be doing it on car). Thanks for suggest


----------



## sagesparks (Apr 9, 2020)

Are all 6-speed VW transmissions 02M? I have a Mk6R with a leaky seal.


----------



## dogzila22 (Apr 1, 2008)

sagesparks said:


> Are all 6-speed VW transmissions 02M? I have a Mk6R with a leaky seal.[/QUOT
> ​mk6 6 speed should be 02M


----------

