# 16vt Vs 20vt



## euroworks (Jul 15, 2003)

What do you guys think is the better motor. what will make more power and which will be an all around better motor. lets see some serious pics of each motor.
16vt or 20vt








the 16vt can be 1.8 or 2.0


_Modified by euroworks at 4:39 PM 11-9-2006_


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## G60RRADO (Nov 30, 2000)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (euroworks)*

i like the the cost of the 16v(cheap)...but the 20v is a nice head... i say the 20v is a better all around turbo motor.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (euroworks)*

it really depends on what block you plan on using.
Overall, the 1.8T head will flow more than the 16V head, but depending on what block you use, it could be not only more costly, but require modifications.
Overall, there is more stuff available for the 20V head as far as manifolds and such go, but the 16V has been around so long, they are cheap and you can get all kinds of manifolds and cams for them as well.
Really up to you, a 16V head is going to flow everything you really need, only a heavily ported AEB head is going to noticably outflow it in NA trim, in turbo, only peak hp would be noticably affected, and unless you are shooting for over 400, you can compensate for the difference with a couple extra pounds of boost. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_it really depends on what block you plan on using.
Overall, the 1.8T head will flow more than the 16V head, but depending on what block you use, it could be not only more costly, but require modifications.
Overall, there is more stuff available for the 20V head as far as manifolds and such go, but the 16V has been around so long, they are cheap and you can get all kinds of manifolds and cams for them as well.
Really up to you, a 16V head is going to flow everything you really need, only a heavily ported AEB head is going to noticably outflow it in NA trim, in turbo, only peak hp would be noticably affected, and unless you are shooting for over 400, you can compensate for the difference with a couple extra pounds of boost. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

good info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (euroworks)*

16v hands down to many issues with the 20v head. 
my personal 16vt put down 408whp @22lbs pump gas. i have seen 20v barely make 370 @26lbs


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## 20v_BT (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (highbeam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *highbeam* »_16v hands down to many issues with the 20v head. 
my personal 16vt put down 408whp @22lbs pump gas. i have seen 20v barely make 370 @26lbs

what kind of issues? if the head is properly built/maintained, you shouldn't have any issues. i am biased towards the 20v, but you can't ignore the cost of building a 16v head, and what power you can make with it. the 20v is no slouch though. there have been a few people who have run 16v's from day one, and will tell you today, they wish they would have started with a 20v from the start. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lightsout (Oct 11, 2005)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (highbeam)*

i never really had a problem with any 20v's making power or blowing a head. But so far our 16v turbo have been holding it down


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## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (euroworks)*

Depends on what you want really. I'd say up to around 405-500 [email protected] the 1,8T is a better engine, over that and I'd go 16v


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## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (20v_BT)*

there have been a few people who have run 16v's from day one, and will tell you today, they wish they would have started with a 20v from the start. 
*those people never had a hard running 16v*


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## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (1,3LG60)*

Lightsout is showin pics of my set-up...
Pistons 9:1, AST cams, standalone 22psi pump gas 
I need to see a 20v run my boost and make power


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## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (highbeam)*

Are there anything that justifies 20v besides its 20v and its newer tech? Not hating, just wondering...i wouldnt mine a 20v myself...
which one has better exhaust sound?


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (highbeam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *highbeam* »_Lightsout is showin pics of my set-up...
Pistons 9:1, AST cams, standalone 22psi pump gas 
I need to see a 20v run my boost and make power

How about 18lbs pump gas 443 hp


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## 20v_BT (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (highbeam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *highbeam* »_there have been a few people who have run 16v's from day one, and will tell you today, they wish they would have started with a 20v from the start. 
*those people never had a hard running 16v*









i'm sure those people were running 10second 16v's and running 9second 20v's now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (highbeam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *highbeam* »_16v hands down to many issues with the 20v head. 
my personal 16vt put down 408whp @22lbs pump gas. i have seen 20v barely make 370 @26lbs

16V all the way
too much BS with the 20v head
BTW 20v heads do NOT outflow 16v by much
16V has been around forever and there are alot of people that know that head inside out
.
20V http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## vagrant_mugen (Jun 13, 2006)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (.therealvrt)*



.therealvrt said:


> 16V all the way
> too much BS with the 20v head
> i agree.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (vagrant_mugen)*

Pretty interesting debate, however, past due.
Jan Roman, 9.4 ET in a street car with wheelie bars (at the track only), motor, 2Liter 16v
Joel Brown, 9.7ET with a 20v, race car
Kevin Black, 9sec ET with a race car 16v
yatta, yatta, yatta.
16v heads are cheaper to get so that's definatly a plus, and you can also run some pretty big cams on them. 
I got both setups so im not too biased.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_
I got both setups so im not too biased.









What you mean your not biased?You sponsour the 16V forum....
If you have the money : 20V
If not : 16V


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## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
What you mean your not biased?You sponsour the 16V forum....


business...he should actually be sponsoring the FI forum








you guys should read this http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2916257
does the 20v have a much diff exhaust route?


_Modified by GoKart_16v at 8:40 PM 11-10-2006_


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (GoKart_16v)*

2.0 16v and a GT turbo is enough for anyone.


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## euroroccoT (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (tyrone27)*

I was always a 16v fan, and with the power we made in the past and being extremly reliable, i stuck with it. now with our race, we are making even more power and we are far from running the psi that we will when we dial in the car. 
16v/20v is not a matter if you have money or not. cuz at one point you will need cams/valves, porting etc etc and that cost about same money. 
Not many people need 400WHP everyday and that's what a stock 16v will deliver with proper supporting parts. if you need more like me then you get a good porting job. bigger turbo, supertech valves. and on pump you make over 500hp on a 16v.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_

If you have the money : 20V
If not : 16V

this is why you are a moron


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## Rado.16vT (May 25, 2005)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (.therealvrt)*

4v per cyl is proven to be a fine balance. Like the guy said if you seek ultimate hp both heads will work. 16v head has produced many fast race cars.
Also you mention 2 cars there one mk1 16vt running on fuel and the corrado 20v T running on meth, not a fair comparision.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (euroworks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *euroroccoT* »_
16v/20v is not a matter if you have money or not. cuz at one point you will need cams/valves, porting etc etc and that cost about same money.

It will cost you almost double to do the same to a 20V as it would to a 16V.Yes I agree that porting the heads will be roughly the same cost but the cost of cams and such will not.Lets compare the price of cams and such for a 16V to that of a 20V and you will get where I am coming from.
*16V:*
* Autotech Titanium retainers/Valve springs - $499.90US
* Autotech Hydraulic Camshafts - $299.95US
* Autotech Intake valves (40mm) - $15.95 x 8 = $127.60US
* Autotech Exhaust valves (40mm) - $34.95 x 8 = $279.60US
Total : *$1207.05US*
*20V:*
* Ferrea Titanium retainers/ Valve Springs - $620US
* CAT hydraulic steel billet camshaft set - $999US
* 034 High Flow Valve set = $135US x 4 = $540US
Total : *$2159US*
Finding a source for cheaper 20V parts has proven difficult.Bobqzzi @QEDPower seems to have good contacts for cams,etc.Maybe do a GB?


_Quote, originally posted by *.therealvrt* »_this is why you are a moron

And this is why your a female rabbit...grow up.








But your right,I should have explained myself:








*16V:*
*Pros:*
* Cheap - available from any Golf or Jetta II
* Been around for 8+ more years than the 20V so aftermarket parts (new and second hand) are cheaper.
* Been proven up to and beyond 500whp.
* mechanical lifter conversion is a hell of alot cheaper.
* Ability to score parts cheap means you can build hybrids (2.1L,etc) for alot cheaper.
*Cons:*
* Does not flow as good as a 20V
* Short ram intake manifolds will cost you upwards of $400US.You ahve 2 choices:
1. Fabricate - Racecraft/BF/USRT,etc
2. Chopped 3B/ADU/ABY intake manifold if your looking for the stock look.
*20V:*
*Pros:*
* Availability - more GENIV Golf's/Jetta's than GENII units were produced and more idiots are getting there liscence earlier.
* head flows more than a 16V
* 5 valves vs 4 (not really something to brag about...







)
* Cast short ram manifolds available for ~$75US (stock) and alot more options in the aftermarket department.
*Cons:*
* PRICE - because it carries the "1.8T" badge,expect to pay alot for it.If you have connections 1.8T parts can be cheap but if not expect to pay through your nose for it.
* If its a high mileage 1.8T and the timing belt has popped,your looking @ 500US easy to repair the head.
* Bottom end is not as strong as a 9A 16V or a hybrid ABA-16V.
If your looking to make decent power then as stated many times,either the 16VT or 20VT will work.From the looks of your engine bay your allready on the right track.The money you would invest in a 20V could be used to take the 16V to where you would like it to be.


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## euroroccoT (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (Wizard-of-OD)*

you gotta compare same valve/springs. We only sell supertech valvetrains and price is close enough. Yes stock 20v head flow more. but i have seen many 20-23psi 20v motor make under 400whp and i have seen way more 16v running some boost make over 400whp.


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## Rado.16vT (May 25, 2005)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (Wizard-of-OD)*

[/QUOTE]








[/QUOTE]
All I see is this guy waving this flow graph like a ho. Do we even know if those numbers are correct?? Did you flowbench all the heads?? The 20v might flow more but I havent seen hard proof evidence from a believable source. Like has been said the heads will flow well, if will cost you less with the 16v to achieve same flow then why spend more on the 20v if potential will be the same?
I would spend that money on other parts and be worried how to lay the power down.
Right now I spin tires through 1-2-3 over 15 psi, before i make more power i gotta worry about laying it down. 




_Modified by Rado.16vT at 6:14 PM 11-12-2006_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (Rado.16vT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rado.16vT* »_
All I see is this guy waving this flow graph like a ho. Do we even know if those numbers are correct?? Did you flowbench all the heads??

No I did not,but [email protected] QED did and the #'s do compare.


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## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_










looks like the 16v flow dayam good...obviously 1.8L 16v head is expected to have poor exhaust flow...especially compared to a 3v exhaust 1.8T...the 2.0L 16v actually flow better in the exhaust...
even tho 3 exhaust valve looks cool on paper...i doubt its that big of a diff in hp with u got a ported 16v (i.e. make it same size as aa 2.0L 16v exhaust port)

edit: i thought it was 3 exhaust valve from a commercial i saw...but i was told it was 3 intake...which makes the 16v head even more impressive...with 2 intake valves, still flow almost as well as a 1.8T...exhaust port is the problem there for the PL head. Nothing a lil P&P can't fix. If you nitpick, u can say 1.8T...but in the real world, 16v works well without the fancy ***** http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by GoKart_16v at 12:01 PM 11-12-2006_


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## 801pete (Apr 20, 2006)

lol... 3 intake valves dood. 2 exhaust. 
look at that AEB (big port) intake go... compared to the 16v...


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## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (801pete)*


_Quote, originally posted by *801pete* »_lol... 3 intake valves dood. 2 exhaust. 
look at that AEB (big port) intake go... compared to the 16v... 

i thought i saw a commercial that says 3 exhaust...i guess it was a dream...but look at the graph, check out the normal valves 1.8T vs the 16v...the 3rd valve in the 1.8T doesn't do much does it? So this "more valves" is better concept is crap...that's the point
ps..normal valve = port


_Modified by GoKart_16v at 12:00 PM 11-12-2006_


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## GoKart_16v (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: 16vt Vs 20vt (euroroccoT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *euroroccoT* »_you gotta compare same valve/springs. We only sell supertech valvetrains and price is close enough. Yes stock 20v head flow more. but i have seen many 20-23psi 20v motor make under 400whp and i have seen way more 16v running some boost make over 400whp.

That's what I'm saying...paper and flowbench will give the 1.8T an advantage...but in the real world...when everything is put together, the advantage of a 5th valve doesn't seem much at all. Its like having a bunch of superstars on an nba team and still lose the game.


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