# (NOOB). Going air WITHOUT Frame notch, or removal of sway bar.



## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

Ok, first and fore most, I must say, I did search.

I stumbled across this:http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...uested*-how-low-without-a-notch&highlight=low

It helped me out slightly, seeing cars get nice and low without notching a frame or removing a sway bar.

Now I know notching a frame or removing a sway bar isn't a big deal, nor costly. My reasoning for nto doing it is simply this. RESALE VALUE. Once the frame's cut. It's never going back. And dealerships frown upon this.

My buddy had a MKV got perfect ride height once aired out for my likings and did not remove or cut anything.

I guess I wanna know how low are you gettign without removing or cutting anything. And I know the pass side will sit higher due to hitting the axel, and I know it won't look PERFECT. But I'd love the availability to drive down a few 100 year old brick roads in my town, and enter a select few parking lots, and get back into my driveway without being nervous, having a conservatice ride height and then sitting it down when I park.

If I don't go this route it'll be Bilstein PSS9's, Kwv1's/Kwv2's.

Just looking for some advice from the guys who actually know their stuff. Sorry for the ESSAY:banghead:


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

Im assumin you have a mk4 cuz of your profile. I know with mkvs front sway bar makes no difference in how low you go since it sits above the axle. Notching your frame is your call, but since you wanna resell id say dont do it. Im notching my mkv cuz this will be my car til it cant drive no more :beer: youll still be pretty damn low jus not laying frame


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## prospal (Mar 8, 2011)

i said the same thing dude. plenty of people i know have sold/traded in their notched frame with 0 heartache.

you'll eventually do it.


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

A friend of mine traded his car into the vw dealer and they didnt notice his notch. They inspected that car like they were border patrol and either didnt find it or didnt care.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

crispy21 said:


> Im assumin you have a mk4 cuz of your profile. I know with mkvs front sway bar makes no difference in how low you go since it sits above the axle. Notching your frame is your call, but since you wanna resell id say dont do it. Im notching my mkv cuz this will be
> my car til it cant drive no more :beer: youll still be pretty damn low jus not laying frame


That's what I'm thinking, laying frame is cool and all. But im more for the functionality of Air-Ride apposed to laying frame. I was ready to just save and buy the Bilsteins, but the more I see air the more I'm considering it. But removing stuff or cutting isn't something I like to do. Now I will be getting a 25-26mm FSB that sits under the axle so it won't rub. I had to on my Jetta that was on coils. But not cutting it.



prospal said:


> i said the same thing dude. plenty of people i know have sold/traded in their notched frame with 0 heartache.
> 
> you'll eventually do it.


I think I eventually would, if I wanted to go lower that bad. BUT. I'm looking at a right now scenario. Should I buy coils since I don't want to notch a frame? I mean AirLift has a video of a Mazda3 getting super low on the AutoPilot V2 management, and nothings cut on that. And that's perfect. Tucking wheel is awesome, but I don't own a show car. I just want the functionality of it as I said. 

Thanks for the responses so far guys:thumbup:


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

crispy21 said:


> A friend of mine traded his car into the vw dealer and they didnt notice his notch. They inspected that car like they were border patrol and either didnt find it or didnt care.


I'm sure of that. Any everyone has a "my friend..." story. But at the end of the day, it's not worth the risk. I'll keep this car until I start a family, and while getting a family sized vehicle, the last thing I'll want is a hassle or having a hard time selling it. Thanks for the info though:thumbup:


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

I did the same thing.. went air with no notch and an after market under axle sway.

Now I am going with r32/tt spindles and LCA's for the extra inch or so. At that point I will decide if it's getting notched. LOL

The 04 R32 and MKV are just easier. They look good enough right out of the box. The mk4, well nope, it takes more.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

dOWa242 said:


> I did the same thing.. went air with no notch and an after market under axle sway.
> 
> Now I am going with r32/tt spindles and LCA's for the extra inch or so. At that point I will decide if it's getting notched. LOL
> 
> The 04 R32 and MKV are just easier. They look good enough right out of the box. The mk4, well nope, it takes more.


Haha, that's what i've been seeing/reading. Really considering just doing coils. It seems without the notching I won't have the fitment I'd demand from an air setup.


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

BDodsonVR6 said:


> Haha, that's what i've been seeing/reading. Really considering just doing coils. It seems without the notching I won't have the fitment I'd demand from an air setup.


Even on coils, if you can go r32/tt spindles it will straighten out the axle enough to make riding low easier. No more clicking CV's and I get lower with out hacking the car up. Win win.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

dOWa242 said:


> Even on coils, if you can go r32/tt spindles it will straighten out the axle enough to make riding low easier. No more clicking CV's and I get lower with out hacking the car up. Win win.


Sounds like a good idea. Maybe you could PM me and shed some more light on the topic? I hate the idea of lowering my car to make it visually appeasing at the cost of breaking items. Never been a big fan of it.


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## Squirrel Nuts (Aug 25, 2010)

*FV-QR*

air with no notch is retarded to me.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

Squirrel Nuts said:


> air with no notch is retarded to me.


Babbaling opinions is silly. Put your reasoning please, I'd like to know.:thumbup:


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

Squirrel Nuts said:


> air with no notch is retarded to me.


I see what you mean. I mean if i jus spend like 2 grand on air stuff, you might as well get a notch and have your car lay out like air is supposed to. And the fact that your axle will be hitting/rubbing on your frame id rather jus notch it, but its all preference


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

crispy21 said:


> I see what you mean. I mean if i jus spend like 2 grand on air stuff, you might as well get a notch and have your car lay out like air is supposed to. And the fact that your axle will be hitting/rubbing on your frame id rather jus notch it, but its all preference


You don't have to completely lay out. You can simply leave a little air in the drivers side and it will sit even, it also won't hit axle. And I don't want to be a "cool kid" and lay frame. I want to adjust my ride height on the go. And cutting a C into your frame is frowned upon by alot of dealerships and mature vehicle owners, unless it's something they've done to a car of there's. I mean go walk up to a 30 year old man and talk about notching your frame, he'll look at you like he's crazy. I just want to maintain the resale value is all.:thumbup:


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

BDodsonVR6 said:


> You don't have to completely lay out. You can simply leave a little air in the drivers side and it will sit even, it also won't hit axle. And I don't want to be a "cool kid" and lay frame. I want to adjust my ride height on the go. And cutting a C into your frame is frowned upon by alot of dealerships and mature vehicle owners, unless it's something they've done to a car of there's. I mean go walk up to a 30 year old man and talk about notching your frame, he'll look at you like he's crazy. I just want to maintain the resale value is all.:thumbup:


Actually a few ppl who i got estimates to do a frame notch were 35-40 years old lol. I see what you mean tho, im still young and my cars completely paid off but i have no intentions to get rid of it so resale value isnt really a big deal. Trust me unless your into cars and air suspension no one will know if your frame is or isnt notched


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

crispy21 said:


> Actually a few ppl who i got estimates to do a frame notch were 35-40 years old lol. I see what you mean tho, im still young and my cars completely paid off but i have no intentions to get rid of it so resale value isnt really a big deal. Trust me unless your into cars and air suspension no one will know if your frame is or isnt notched


I understand what you're saying completely. And me not wanting to notch my frams is the exact reason I'm still undecided if I should buy air or a high end coilover.:banghead:


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

I had coils before air and i jus find it impractical. I was at a driving height thats too low, scraped lips, cracked oil pans:thumbdown: air is best of both worlds


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

crispy21 said:


> I had coils before air and i jus find it impractical. I was at a driving height thats too low, scraped lips, cracked oil pans:thumbdown: air is best of both worlds


Exactly my reasoning for wanting to go air.


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## Chris Anderson (Jun 18, 2012)

you should get rid of the sway regardless if you go coils or air, it needs to be removed to be semi-low anyways. but why would you go air and not frame notch? :screwy: you can still sell your car with a frame notch.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

Chris Anderson said:


> you should get rid of the sway regardless if you go coils or air, it needs to be removed to be semi-low anyways. but why would you go air and not frame notch? :screwy: you can still sell your car with a frame notch.


I sat 23 1/2 ftg on racelands, tucked tire on my rc's. That's plenty for me, I like to keep my sway bar incase I'd like to do spirited driving I don't want to worry about my wheels coming off the ground. And you can sell a car buy if you read what I said, it isnt as appealing to some potential buyers down the road. 

I'm considering going air, and possibly a small notch, but I'd like to keep my sway bar, I'd be getting a hotchkins or h&r. Possible?


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## Squirrel Nuts (Aug 25, 2010)

BDodsonVR6 said:


> Babbaling opinions is silly. Put your reasoning please, I'd like to know.:thumbup:





crispy21 said:


> I see what you mean. I mean if i jus spend like 2 grand on air stuff, you might as well get a notch and have your car lay out like air is supposed to. And the fact that your axle will be hitting/rubbing on your frame id rather jus notch it, but its all preference


This. ^^

Why spend all that and go through all that trouble if you're not going to even lay frame? Just seems pointless to me. It's like going out to a club/bar, being a noob and dropping a bunch of $$$ on buying drinks for a girl, stopping by CVS on the way home and getting some condoms, going home, listen to some retarded story about how her family is dysfunctional in the car ride, buy her some food to eat, give her some comfortable clothes of yours to get into and then you tell her to go home and she gets to keep the condoms. Counterproductive, that's all.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

Squirrel Nuts said:


> This. ^^
> 
> Why spend all that and go through all that trouble if you're not going to even lay frame? Just seems pointless to me. It's like going out to a club/bar, being a noob and dropping a bunch of $$$ on buying drinks for a girl, stopping by CVS on the way home and getting some condoms, going home, listen to some retarded story about how her family is dysfunctional in the car ride, buy her some food to eat, give her some comfortable clothes of yours to get into and then you tell her to go home and she gets to keep the condoms. Counterproductive, that's all.


Thats a terrible story. Seemed detailed, maybe a personal experience.  I kid I kid. i see what you're saying, I just like the availablility to change height on the fly.


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

Squirrel Nuts said:


> This. ^^
> 
> Why spend all that and go through all that trouble if you're not going to even lay frame? Just seems pointless to me. It's like going out to a club/bar, being a noob and dropping a bunch of $$$ on buying drinks for a girl, stopping by CVS on the way home and getting some condoms, going home, listen to some retarded story about how her family is dysfunctional in the car ride, buy her some food to eat, give her some comfortable clothes of yours to get into and then you tell her to go home and she gets to keep the condoms. Counterproductive, that's all.


Greatest post on vortex :laugh:


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## 4TheHonor (Oct 8, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about ruining resale value. Best case scenario, your car is 8 years old and mkiv's are dirt cheap now so if/when you decide to sell it, dealerships won't give you enough money for it to be worth trading in, so you would sell it privately. Now the potential buyers would be either vw enthusiasts where a notched frame is a plus or a mom/dad looking to pick up a cheap first car for their kids and all that matters is it runs. 

I understand what you are saying, when I was still looking into getting air, I was against notching the frame and I told myself that I'll be happy with it at the height it sits without a notch. I'm glad I did decide to do the notch because now, as I' sure it is true with 99% of everyone else here on air, I'm constantly looking into getting my car even lower. If you are going to spend the money, do it all.


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

4TheHonor said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't worry about ruining resale value. Best case scenario, your car is 8 years old and mkiv's are dirt cheap now so if/when you decide to sell it, dealerships won't give you enough money for it to be worth trading in, so you would sell it privately. Now the potential buyers would be either vw enthusiasts where a notched frame is a plus or a mom/dad looking to pick up a cheap first car for their kids and all that matters is it runs.
> 
> I understand what you are saying, when I was still looking into getting air, I was against notching the frame and I told myself that I'll be happy with it at the height it sits without a notch. I'm glad I did decide to do the notch because now, as I' sure it is true with 99% of everyone else here on air, I'm constantly looking into getting my car even lower. If you are going to spend the money, do it all.


Agreed i dont think ill ever be happy till my car is below pavement:laugh:


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## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

reverse rake kills baby seals

dont kill baby seals


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## ClydeandBonnie23 (Oct 12, 2009)

Squirrel Nuts said:


> This. ^^
> 
> Why spend all that and go through all that trouble if you're not going to even lay frame? Just seems pointless to me. It's like going out to a club/bar, being a noob and dropping a bunch of $$$ on buying drinks for a girl, stopping by CVS on the way home and getting some condoms, going home, listen to some retarded story about how her family is dysfunctional in the car ride, buy her some food to eat, give her some comfortable clothes of yours to get into and then you tell her to go home and she gets to keep the condoms. Counterproductive, that's all.


This made my night! On a side note. If you trade your car in with a notch the chance of them noticing a notch is very low. :thumbup:


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## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

Hondas cause mass baby seal suicide


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## choey (Feb 11, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Notch the frame man, It was a bit painful to do considering the car only had 10k on it and it was brand new but Im so happy i sit even and dont get laughed at for not having a notch


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

Mkvs notch both sides correct? Mkivs only need passenger side right


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## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

crispy21 said:


> Mkvs notch both sides correct? Mkivs only need passenger side right


No. Mk5's only need the passenger side done too :beer: :beer:


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

4TheHonor said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't worry about ruining resale value. Best case scenario, your car is 8 years old and mkiv's are dirt cheap now so if/when you decide to sell it, dealerships won't give you enough money for it to be worth trading in, so you would sell it privately. Now the potential buyers would be either vw enthusiasts where a notched frame is a plus or a mom/dad looking to pick up a cheap first car for their kids and all that matters is it runs.
> 
> I understand what you are saying, when I was still looking into getting air, I was against notching the frame and I told myself that I'll be happy with it at the height it sits without a notch. I'm glad I did decide to do the notch because now, as I' sure it is true with 99% of everyone else here on air, I'm constantly looking into getting my car even lower. If you are going to spend the money, do it all.


Great post, I agree with what your saying, and I'm thinking that IF I do go air, to do the notch and be ok with it. 

Another question so I don't flood this thread with post's. I've read some Air Kits ride as good if not better then some higher end coil's. If this is true, how is it done without a front sway-bar. Doesn't that induce unnesecary body roll? Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on tracking this car at all. BUT if persay I want to do a little spirited driving I'd like the reassurance of knowing ****'s not going to get deep on me.


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## SoIAteAPancakeToday (Apr 21, 2009)

This whole thread is retarded. If you dont want to go low then get a decent set of coils. You already know the answer to your question. I don't see what the problem is here.


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## crispy21 (Mar 26, 2012)

SoIAteAPancakeToday said:


> This whole thread is retarded. If you dont want to go low then get a decent set of coils. You already know the answer to your question. I don't see what the problem is here.


Hes unsure if notching will diminish resale value


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

SoIAteAPancakeToday said:


> This whole thread is retarded. If you dont want to go low then get a decent set of coils. You already know the answer to your question. I don't see what the problem is here.


I think your retarded for getting all butt hurt. If you don't like it move along. If I wanted your personal opinion on my thread, I could've simply messaged you. But obviously I didn't, go change your tampon and move on. And if I knew the answer to my question I wouldn't have posted this. I wanted personal opinions on going low without a notch, or without removing sway-bar, since bag-riders advertises only their bomber series only NEEDS the sway-bar removed. SO, before you get all upset about something, maybe you should read a little and quit being so ignorant.:thumbup:


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

BDodsonVR6 said:


> ... SO, before you get all upset about something, maybe you should read a little and quit being so ignorant.:thumbup:


This ^ is the general style of the Vortex. It's ok. 

I think you should go for the bag set up. Like I said above.. when I installed my air I went e-level and beefy underaxle sway bar and it's been awesome. Granted I lay the car on the passenger frame everytime I air out but who cares? There is nothing wrong with that.

My car is super driveable and the only people that think I need more low is fellow air heads.

I say do it for you how you want.


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## 20vtVdubb (Feb 27, 2008)

Squirrel Nuts said:


> air with no notch is retarded to me.


yeah go big or go home


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

20vtVdubb said:


> yeah go big or go home


Don't mean go low or go home? 

and I'm highly considering getting the v2 setup, but a nice riding coilover is also appealing. Thanks for everything guys. :thumbup::thumbup::wave:


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## younganimater35 (Apr 29, 2008)

prospal said:


> i said the same thing dude. plenty of people i know have sold/traded in their notched frame with 0 heartache.
> 
> you'll eventually do it.


If you notch it, and try to resale, any place like carmax or in an auction setting, *if* they find it, it will tremendously devalue the car. Its viewed as frame and/or unibody damage and that throws up tons of red flags for liability reasons. 

Tapatalk 2


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

younganimater35 said:


> If you notch it, and try to resale, any place like carmax or in an auction setting, *if* they find it, it will tremendously devalue the car. Its viewed as frame and/or unibody damage and that throws up tons of red flags for liability reasons.
> 
> Tapatalk 2


Oh trust me I do know that, which was my whole reasoning for this. But I'll have it for at leasst 3 more years. So by then it'll be a 12 year old car. And getting anything from a dealership will be little to none anyway.


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

It's still hard for me to think about cutting the frame on my 03 20AE GTi with 43k miles. I don't care if the car is 9 years old. It's an anniversary and mine is like new. My plan was to get as low as possible before I opted to hack the car.


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## leftygibsonplyr (Feb 16, 2006)

dOWa242 said:


> It's still hard for me to think about cutting the frame on my 03 20AE GTi with 43k miles. I don't care if the car is 9 years old. It's an anniversary and mine is like new. My plan was to get as low as possible before I opted to hack the car.


I did mine...haven't really looked back on it honestly. Granted, i dont have 43k miles, but i dont really feel like mileage is that big of a factor to me. There are plenty of other cars on the road with notches besides VWs..Most dealers probably won't/wouldn't notice anyway...but i'd have a hard time selling it to someone w/o them knowing about it...but even then, i dont think you'd have a hard time selling it...just tell them the work has already been done for them.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

dOWa242 said:


> It's still hard for me to think about cutting the frame on my 03 20AE GTi with 43k miles. I don't care if the car is 9 years old. It's an anniversary and mine is like new. My plan was to get as low as possible before I opted to hack the car.


I agree. Granted mine isn't a 20th, it's a mint 03 GTI with 56k. That's why I'm leaning towards coils.


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