# Intake Valve cleaning at 77K (Insight & Pics)



## lumpypumpkin (Jun 14, 2011)

So I noticed that the GTI didn't quite have as much pep in her as she used to, and my fuel mileage had gone down considerably. I've been keeping my eye on everything intake gunk related, and decided to bite the bullet and clean my own.

A word of caution... seriously... don't even think about this until you have that long reach M10 Triple Square (XZN) Socket. Preferably a 3/8" ratchet size. I had a normal XZN socket set, and spent 2 hours trying to reach that bolt before I gave up, put the car back together, and ordered the tool.

I have had the BSH PCV block off plate for about 50k of those 77k miles. My lower intercooler pipe had a lot of oil in it, so I'm thinking about removing it and designing my own catch can set up.

I used 2 cans of B12 Chemtool, a can of MAF cleaner, and a can of compressed air. I did the cleaning with a brush kit with stainless wire brushes, a set of pics (technically wood carving tools) from Harbor Freight, and a Shop Vac to evacuate large amounts of cleaner.

If you pull an injector out with the manifold, it needs to be resealed. I didn't want to buy the sealing kits without knowing how many I needed. Only my Cylinder 2 injector came out, so I called the local dealership and sent the wife out to fetch a kit. I've heard stories about how hard the Teflon ring is to install, but mine actually was pretty easy. I cut the old one out with a dental pick.

I had the upper blue o-rings on the injectors stick in the manifold. Make sure you pry them out (gently and with a blunt object) and reset them on the injectors... else you will have fuel spilling out all over the engine and ground. I was in a rush to get everything back together in the dark (the wife held the flashlight) and didn't notice it. So that's 3 times I had to pull the manifold.

The Stasis Manifold removal instructions are spot on. The only thing I'd add to them is how to remove the fuel line by the motor mount. They say push up on the black retainer. In reality i found it MUCH easier to push down on the whole connector with the palm of your hand, and then lift up on the black piece with your fingers. It pops right out with no effort... but good lord does the dipstick tube require a lot of force to remove. I recommend using a rag to pad the hard metal from your finger.

Now on to the pics.

Dirty at 77k...
Cylinder 1









Cylinder 2









Cylinder 3









Cylinder 4









The dark, shiny gunk is like sluge. It's very thick & very gooey. The lighter, dry looking crud is hard as a rock. I believe the dry hard crud is carbon buildup which is unavoidable, and the dark, gooey crud is from the PCV system. I'd love to get a catch can, but I really doubt the effectiveness of any of the available retail kits (42DD, BSH, etc.). I've got some ideas floating around on how to hook one up to be more effective.

I got most of what I could off of the valves, but some of the hardened, baked on carbon was next to impossible to get off. I deemed it not worth the effort. There was a lot of buildup in the valve guide area. A thin metal pick worked well for scooping all of that out of there.

Cleaned Cylinder 1









Cleaned Cylinder 2









Cleaned Cylinder 3









Cleaned Cylinder 4









All in all I'm happy with how it turned out. It was a back breaking job, and very frustrating to have to remove everything 3 times due to tools / stupid mistake exhausted in the dark. Hopefully this write up can prevent people from having to go down the same road I did.

I do notice an increase in fuel mileage, and the car idles MUCH more smoothly. There's a bit more pep in her, but not much. I also noticed that she seems to run a little quieter. I installed the BSH throttle body pipe, new spark plugs, and cleaned the Throttle body, MAF & AIT sensors at the same time, so who's to say what did what.

If anyone has any questions, I feel like an expert now on how to remove everything. The third time around, i had the entire manifold off in about 30 ~ 45 minutes.


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

nice work :beer:


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*valve cleaning*

a direct injection delema, my 06 2.0t was maybe a little worse with crud bridging from the port wall to the valve stem at about the same mileage. ran and started much better after cleaning.


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

The before pix look ok considering...
Nice work btw


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## yikes1 (Mar 15, 2005)

My car @ 99,000km was diagnosed with carbon buildup since I complain of random misfiring on cold startup. My dealer is quoting me 8hrs @ $119 an hour which I will definitely not pay. Even though I am under power train warranty.

I'd like to do this on my own. I would say I have above average mechanical skills but I am definitely not a mechanic. I have the tools based on what is listed in some of the how too's i've read. Is this something most people feel they can complete on there own? 

Thanks in advance.
Nick


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

It's not really that tough mechanically, just figure about 1-2 hours to get the manifold off. You might have trouble with one of the triple square bolts under the manifold, it's hard to get at. After I had it back together I realized I should have replaced it with a allen head bolt so next time I could get it with a ball driver.

Just make sure the valves are closed in the cylinder you are working in and don't spray any liquid in there till you pick most of the gunk out, it turns into soup and makes it worse. I picked all the crap loose and then sprayed compresed air into the port, it forces all the crap back out toward you but it's the easiest way to get it out


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## vwisthebest (Sep 17, 2003)

I've done this cleaning on many cars. You can re-use the injector blue o-rings and the teflon seals. I usually have 1 or 2 injectors come out with the manifold. Never had a problem just pushing them back in.

I've been installing exhaust-routed PCV systems on cars after cleaning the valves. The recirculating catch cans will never get all the gunk and the vent to atmosphere setups turn your engine bay into a filmy oily mess. Use a BSH PCV Revamp on the front and route the rear port to the exhuast after the cats and O2 sensors. Use a Moroso pipe nipple welded in the exhaust. PM me for more details.


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## Fornazari (Sep 19, 2005)

How did you turn your engine position to close the valves?


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## lumpypumpkin (Jun 14, 2011)

The problem with routing the PCV system to the exhaust is that there's not enough vacuum to effectively evacuate the gases unless you're at WOT.

But PCV issues aren't the only reason the FSI has this problem, so there's always going to be buildup on these valves.


As for closing the valves, You have to remove the right front wheel and the fender lining. Behind that you can easily get to the crank pulley. 

Using a 19mm 12 point socket, turn the crank clockwise. You won't have to turn it more than 180°.

I took the 1, 2, and 4 clean pictures while Cyl. 3 was still open and dirty. After I closed Cyl 3, I cleaned it and took a picture of just that cylinder.


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

*Some dealers have equipment to deal with the carbon build up problem*

I know a tech at a local dealership here who is always giving the hookup. I asked him about the build up problems on the FSI and he is very familiar with it. He's had several people come in with actual misfires caused by loss of compression due to the intake valves not fully seating. 

He told me that they have some really good, new equipment for cleaning this now which does not involve removing the intake manifold. It takes about 3 hours. Its a complete fuel cleaning service and according to him it works great. 

He uses pressurized cleaning agent through the injectors themselves. Then they use a vacuum fed intake manifold/intake valve cleaning agent. Finally, they add a cleaning agent to your fuel tank which cleans and stabilizes the entire fuel system for your next tank of fuel. He's usually not a fan of "additives" or anything like that but he says the new kits actually work; supposedly it's some really concentrated stuff ( burns flesh) and together with the full service, does a great job of carbon cleaning. 

I'm gonna have it done at 60k.


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

Sounds like the BG treatment to me. I heard they are formulating a version to combat DI intake buildup.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*missfire*

i've cleaned my valves, changed coil, plugs, injectors and all to no avail. i've seafoamed multiple times to no avail. it goes away off idle so so i'm living with it until inspection time (passes w/ a/c on). if you suspect a carbon build up on valve seat, check compression and manifold vacuum. i have 170+ (multiple checks) on the compression side and 21 in./hg on the vacuum side so i do not suspect a mechanical problem. these are tough engines when problems start.


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## Fornazari (Sep 19, 2005)

lumpypumpkin said:


> The problem with routing the PCV system to the exhaust is that there's not enough vacuum to effectively evacuate the gases unless you're at WOT.
> 
> But PCV issues aren't the only reason the FSI has this problem, so there's always going to be buildup on these valves.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::beer:


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## lastduke (Jul 19, 2010)

Can you please list all tools, parts and materials involved in this work ? I want to follow your description and do the Sam thing. Will post stepwise pictures to share with other newbie like me


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## HillRoad1 (Nov 20, 2008)

Why Vw didn't do like toyota adding 5th injector on intake, just to spray little mist of fuel at the time. It will be a a life saving deal for vw. Lot's of people doesn't know how to do this. Stealerships will charge you a leg and arm. independent mechanics will mess something up. No wonder toy.. is #1 selling vehicle. Their engines have direct injection for past 4 years no problems reported AT ALL about carbon build up. In fact many other car manifacturers these days having direct injection none of them having near much problems as Vw... Lumpypumpkin you did heck of a job at least you are good for 30-40k miles.....


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

Not exactly true, BMW is having the same issues as VW haven't heard much from the DI Ecotecs so far. Hyundais are too new.
Toyota has the edge on the extra injector.


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## lumpypumpkin (Jun 14, 2011)

B6REDHELL said:


> Why Vw didn't do like toyota adding 5th injector on intake, just to spray little mist of fuel at the time.


Actually, the new 1.8TFSI engine that Audi is developing uses dual injection. 1 set of direct injectors for the usual fuel delivery, and another set of port injectors as well for partial load conditions. 170HP at 41MPG. Reports of 18psi boost pressure stock.


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## delav.gli (Oct 4, 2011)

lumpypumpkin said:


> Actually, the new 1.8TFSI engine that Audi is developing uses dual injection. 1 set of direct injectors for the usual fuel delivery, and another set of port injectors as well for partial load conditions. 170HP at 41MPG. Reports of 18psi boost pressure stock.


Now that sounds like a modern marvel of reliability


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## HillRoad1 (Nov 20, 2008)

lumpypumpkin said:


> Actually, the new 1.8TFSI engine that Audi is developing uses dual injection. 1 set of direct injectors for the usual fuel delivery, and another set of port injectors as well for partial load conditions. 170HP at 41MPG. Reports of 18psi boost pressure stock.


somewhere was article about this engine replacing current CCTA/CBFA 2.0 in vw/audi line up.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

lastduke said:


> Can you please list all tools, parts and materials involved in this work ? I want to follow your description and do the Sam thing. Will post stepwise pictures to share with other newbie like me


Thanks lumpypumpkin and lastduke. I would be VERY interested in reading the quick and dirty DIY for cleaning the intake valves. Especially since Lumpypumpkin says that he can now get the intake off in 30-45min. I don't plan on doing this job until the spring but if I see a good write up on it then I'm game to try it.


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## turbopoweredturtle (Oct 23, 2011)

*3M fuel system cleaner*

just adding additional info..

just used 3m fuel system cleaner and noticed kerosene as first ingredient along with only a few others..says safe for cats and o2 of course, but it does seem to make for easier starting and smoother running, after just about 10 miles. diluted a 16 0z. can to 9 gal-half tank..

perhaps a steady diet of this in the gas tank (safely though, can says dont exceed 3 treatments between oil changes)would aid the intake gumming on the fsi.. 

Kerosene will clean anything.. perhaps also through the intake with this product will also further enhance the benefits, before a solid oil change for safety.

will stay posted, tomorrow, cleaning up the factory pcv with carb cleaner, cleaning out t-body and as much intake man. as can get at, along with soft plumbing from turbo to throttlebody. oil change and plugs next week.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*valve cleaning*



turbopoweredturtle said:


> just adding additional info..
> 
> just used 3m fuel system cleaner and noticed kerosene as first ingredient along with only a few others..says safe for cats and o2 of course, but it does seem to make for easier starting and smoother running, after just about 10 miles. diluted a 16 0z. can to 9 gal-half tank..
> 
> ...


nothing you put in the gas tank of a direct injection motor will clean valves. fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber


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## turbopoweredturtle (Oct 23, 2011)

*filling the cylinder head with cleaner*

Also does anyone know of an affordable flex-o-camera that can view these intake valves via spark plug hole??

thinking of removing spark plugs and filling cylinders with fuel treatment and letting sit by adding enough to fill combust. chamber and possibly submerge intake valves if I can get timing correct to keep valves open and submerged with intake man. still intact to engine.

Then removing the soiled treatment with shop vac and filling the fuel treatment again into the cylinders.
While using a fish tank or similar bubbler with thin tubing into the cyl. adding turbulence to the cleaning solution for best result.. 

Again with intake manifold and all related parts still intact.. this seems easier than removing intake manifold and proceding to manually cleaning the valves etc, but is it effective?..


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

For really nasty valves you gotta clean them manually. IF you seafoamed early and often maybe the BG and seafoam might have helped, and that is a might have.


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## lumpypumpkin (Jun 14, 2011)

turbopoweredturtle said:


> Thinking of removing spark plugs and filling cylinders with fuel treatment and letting sit by adding enough to fill combust. chamber and possibly submerge intake valves if I can get timing correct to keep valves open and submerged with intake man. still intact to engine.
> 
> Then removing the soiled treatment with shop vac and filling the fuel treatment again into the cylinders.
> While using a fish tank or similar bubbler with thin tubing into the cyl. adding turbulence to the cleaning solution for best result..
> ...


I'm going to assume you don't know much about engines, because if you did, you would have never even thought this was a valid idea. This could only end badly.

I can't stress enough how harmful this would be to your engine. Not to mention how ineffective it would be at cleaning the valves.

If you need it spelled out for you why this is a bad idea... i think you should just take it to a shop and have them do the cleaning for you.


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## lumpypumpkin (Jun 14, 2011)

gmikel said:


> nothing you put in the gas tank of a direct injection motor will clean valves. fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber


 :thumbup:

This is the whole reason why the valves get like this in the first place.


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## lumpypumpkin (Jun 14, 2011)

turbopoweredturtle said:


> Also does anyone know of an affordable flex-o-camera that can view these intake valves via spark plug hole??


You cant look at the BACK of the valve from the spark plug hole.

You could remove the air temp sensor on the manifold and stick a Borescope (technical term for flexie camera thingy) through there.

You can buy cheap scopes at Home Depot / Lowes


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## turbopoweredturtle (Oct 23, 2011)

just pulled all the plugs and cleaned all w/ carb cleaner and reinstalled.. no oil at all down the holes!!

also thought the pistons, from what I could see appeared very shiny and clean via spark plug hole.

Pehaps its from using the 3M fuel cleaner in the tank.. all plugs looked good too, just a little grayish in color on the tips otherwise perfect. NGK with factory vw ag lettering

Also cleaned T- body, all intercooler plumbing and two sensors - one above the t-body and one in the inter. plumbing..

Also removed and cleaned the front pcv and hoses with "carb", seems fine, I could see the diaphram and spring looked better after flushing out.

All seemed better after, pulled an easy 28 mpg in a short drive.. not bad for 39 F and 83k miles.. usually gettin 30-32 hwy... BooYahhh


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## kiznarsh (Apr 10, 2007)

brekdown29 said:


> He uses pressurized cleaning agent through the injectors themselves. Then they use a vacuum fed intake manifold/intake valve cleaning agent. Finally, they add a cleaning agent to your fuel tank which cleans and stabilizes the entire fuel system for your next tank of fuel. He's usually not a fan of "additives" or anything like that but he says the new kits actually work; supposedly it's some really concentrated stuff ( burns flesh) and together with the full service, does a great job of carbon cleaning.


Just out of curiosity, is there any visual evidence to back up how well this works besides improved fuel consumption and smoother idling? I'm not questioning that it works, but the nice thing about removing the manifold and cleaning it is being able to see how much crud you actually remove. Have they ever done this cleaning, then removed the manifold to see and document the results? 

I'm also planning on having this done soon (currently at 41k). My tuner shop quoted me $400 for the labor and $99 for the solvent and they'll go as long as it takes to get the valves clean (estimated at 4-6 hours). 

I've had the 42DD stealth catch can since 35k and I've emptied out about 6 oz. of crap so far...


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## talja10 (Jan 4, 2010)

I was told that on the newer model engines there is a liquid wich u poor it on the engine u let the engine run for 15 min and it cleans everything snd u change the oil right after it.


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

to keep ur valves clean check my pcv fix on the main page of the forum!!


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## vwisthebest (Sep 17, 2003)

It's been almost two years since my post and your response, but this needs to be addressed...



lumpypumpkin said:


> The problem with routing the PCV system to the exhaust is that there's not enough vacuum to effectively evacuate the gases unless you're at WOT.
> 
> But PCV issues aren't the only reason the FSI has this problem, so there's always going to be buildup on these valves.


There is indeed vacuum at partial throttle and even idle. This has been tested and confirmed by using a vacuum/boost gauge connected directly to line running from the rear PCV to the exhaust. The factory PCV creates an immense excess of needed vacuum on the crankcase... that is what causes the extremely high rate of oil consumption in these cars. On the opposite end of the spectrum you have VTA aka "race" catch can systems that provide absolutely NO vacuum on the crankcase. With the exception of an oily film in the engine bay, people run VTA catch cans without issue. Used oil analysis on VTA cars show a slight increase in oil acidity levels and fuel dilution in the oil. These increases could be considered negligable. People have been running VTA systems on the FSI for over 100k miles with no problem at all.

The exhaust-routed solution falls in the middle of both the VTA and factory PCV in terms of the vacuum it provides on the crankcase. You get the benefits of both systems. The exhaust-routed systems send absolutely no PCV gases back through the intake and subsequently none through the turbo, intercooler, piping, intake manifold, or intake ports and valves. When compared to the factory PCV, the exhaust-routed system provides less vacuum. Vacuum is reduced from an excessive amount to an ideal amount that will not cause massive oil consumption, while still being adequate enough to evacuate PCV gases. Yes, vacuum is dependent on engine speed, but cylinder blow-by and the addition of crankcase pressure is also dependent on engine speed. At lower engine speeds, the reduced vacuum is still adequate due to the slower rate of buildup of crankcase pressure. This has been proven by used oil analysis that show virtually no increase in oil acidity or fuel dilution compared to cars with factory PCV.

My oil consumption used to be 2 quarts added between 6,000 mile oil changes. After the exhaust-system was installed, I haven't had to add any oil between changes. Oil level drops maybe 4-5mm on the dipstick between changes.

Before installing the exhaust-routed PCV, my car had a rough idle issues that started at about 20,000 miles and continued until 60,000 miles at which time I did a manual valve scrub and installed the exhaust routed PCV. No rough idle issues since.

Yes, there will always be some valve buildup due to oil slowly weeping down the valve guides and onto the intake valves. This weeping oil has proven negligable given my nearly nonexistent oil consumption, and also the large amount of miles (100,000 since valve clean and exhaust-routed PCV install) I've put on the car without experiencing any resurgence of symptoms caused by valve deposit buildup. Now there is 160,000 miles on my car and I installed the exhaust-routed PCV around 100,000 miles ago and have experienced no problems. Neither have the other cars I've installed this system on. My engine bay is clean, I have no oil consumption, I get great gas mileage, and I have no rough idle issues. As far as I'm concerned, the solution has been found and the problem solved. I recommend the exhaust-routed PCV to anyone with a direct-injection engine.

Before








After


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

Ok i gotta chime in on this responce, using the exhaust slashcut method can work well but it also has a high fail rate, it the slash cut nipple is installed even slightly off it will not pull vacuum and if the nippe get clogged it will over pressureize the head. The head can also become pressureized depending on ur exhaust set up. With my method of capping the front pcv and routing the rear pcv under the. Car with a large diameter hose and letting it vta is much safer. I have done tests and the rear pcv is always forcing air out at pressure which should be enough to force gasses out. With my method you dont risk pressurizing the head and you wont get a dirty engine bay. I looked into the exhaust method for a long time and ran tests to see the vacuum pulled and while it looked promising i was to nervous to do it because of the fear of my head exploding like other vtexers have had happen. So to finish my .02 both methods can work and both could fail if installed wrong howevrr ot is my belief that my rear vta pipe is a bit safer and the differences in the changes to oil acidity are negligable.
Btw this was not meant to prove anyone wrong, i just have been invested in this issue with our car for a while and want to share what ive learned! Hope this helps someone!


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## kylegti07 (Apr 4, 2012)

Also i gotta give props to "vwisthebest" those valves look purdy!


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## glifahrenheitcameron (Sep 14, 2011)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## everfresh59 (Jul 26, 2010)

Did you guys also clean your intake manifold? Is it something that should be done as well? I'm at 100,000 miles now and she's going in to have the valves cleaned, new but used injectors installed, and new thermostat. I'm just wondering if cleaning the intake manifold is somewhat just as important. My cold start and idle is brutal,I'm just trying to get an idea on what other things I should consider cleaning/replacing while I'm getting this all done.

Thanks.


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

Flaps could be oily too.


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