# "BITE PARTICLES" in snow tires



## Pat Dolan (Sep 28, 2003)

This one's for the Tire Rack guys (I hope):
I have played with all kinds of tires over the years, often looking for things that would make a good spec tire for ice racing. On one car, I have Green Diamonds (14" MkII Scirocco) and I quite like them. For the uninitiated, these are re-molded tires with silicon carbide embedded throught the tread (thousands of little "studs"). They work reasonably well, and don't have the issues of big studs (I run an extra mm in length for street stud tires) nor the wear and squish of multi-cell compounds or mega-sipes.
We had a Blizzak spec class going back many years ago, and I have run various models of them on most of our street cars. A couple of years ago, Bridgestone sold REVO1s in a few sizes, and we put them on the S4 and a Suby and found them a very good tire on the slippery stuff. The feature that stood out was the use of "bite particles" in the tread. The best of all possible winter worlds. Of course, they are gone now (got a set for the kids' Mazda5 just before they dissappeared from the Tire Rack catalogue), but I understand the WS60 also has "bite particles" in the tread. When first introduced, nobody on the phone at the Tire Rack seemed to know that (but they didn't regarding the material in the Revo1s either). 
Now, if you read the Bridgestone website (which seems to change a lot) it has NEVER mentioned this in Canada, and seldom did it appear in the US. When it did, it said something about "bite particles" adhering to the tubes in the "tube multi-cell compound" with a "special adhesive" or some such stuff.
So, enough time has passed for you guys to figure out what it is you have for sale. Tell me: WHAT material is a "bite particle" and what BS tires still contain them and over what part of the tread compound (i.e. full depth or only on the out 50%)? Why doesn't anyone talk about it (conflict with Green Diamond maybe?)


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

I agree, the Bridgestone Bite Particle is still a mystery to me.
Some of the Toyo Observe winter tires had ground walnut shells in the tread to physically serve as particles.
Are Menards ice race tires still available?


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## Pat Dolan (Sep 28, 2003)

*Re: (GT17V)*

Don't know about Menards. Back in the glory days of Lindorfer studs, there were a couple of custom moulders around, but we have long ago switched to modified tires with bolts through the casing (very cheap and durable). Our particular club formula is 10 per foot of 6 mm pointed, hardened body bolts (Wurth item) with prevailing torque lock nuts, all protrudiing no more than 10mm from the face of the casing. We tend to use temporary spares, shave off the tread and put the bolts in, followed by a half litre of so of "tire snot", which seems to be various formulations of propylene goo that bung up the hole very well (I have some tires that sit for the entire summer and STILL hold pressure). Dramatic reduction in cost over custom molded tires that tended to get chewed up badly by the Lindorfers.


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## sdobbins (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_
Some of the Toyo Observe winter tires had ground walnut shells in the tread to physically serve as particles.


i had read that somewhere a while back. always wondered if it was indeed true or not...very interesting...http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
let's keep this thread going i've got a newfound interest in this topic...


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## Pat Dolan (Sep 28, 2003)

*Re: (sdobbins)*

I waguely remember the walnut shell thing, and for a while, there were some plastic bits embedded in another tire (can't remember which).  However, neither would have the hardness to keep an edge when rubbing against aggregate while on bare tarmac, and even ice (which is surprisingly abrasive) would do them in. That is why the SiC particles in Green Diamond make so much sense to me.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

I think the nylon fibers were in one of the Yokohama tires


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## Pat Dolan (Sep 28, 2003)

*Re: (GT17V)*

I seem to recall something about Glaspic or Graspic or some name like that.
(On Edit) Glaspic turns out to be DunSlop, now on second gen design. Wonder if it was their Gen1 that had the material (I believe it WAS Nylon)??


_Modified by Pat Dolan at 11:54 PM 12-28-2008_


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: (GT17V)*

The WS 60 uses "microscopic metallic particles" combined with the "tube" multi cell compound for added traction. (that's all I could get out of them







)
The compound reverts back to a regular "all season" type compund below 6/32" tread depth as Bridgestone feels that snow traction is greatly reduced at that tread depth so added ice traction is taken away as well.


_Modified by [email protected] at 3:04 PM 12-31-2008_


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## Pat Dolan (Sep 28, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Doc:
Geez, New Years Eve around South Bend must be about as exciting as it is around here, if you're answering posts on the 'Tex. Either that or you have kids to do the celebrating and you are (as I) sitting at home taking care of their pets, etc. as a dutiful parent must, it seems.
Thanks for the reply. I guess I will have to break out a microscope and find some particles and get my daughter to throw them under the probe on her electron microscope.
All of the best to you, our family and the rest of the staff at Tire Rack.
Thanks for being there in the past, and you can be sure many of us will continue to be right there with you in the futre.


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The compound reverts back to a regular "all season" type compund below 6/32" tread depth as Bridgestone feels that snow traction is greatly reduced at that tread depth so added ice traction is taken away as well.

_Modified by [email protected] at 3:04 PM 12-31-2008_

couldn't find that anywhere on bridgestone website. hmm... i wonder why?


_Modified by teutoned at 9:00 AM 1-2-2009_


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (teutoned)*

my bad. found it posted on bridgestone website in "the blizzak chill zone" wtf? its only a winter tyre for 50% of tread!! that sukcs!!! for more sustainable safety check, out the hakkapeliitta r at http://www.nokiantires.com. better traction thru out the life of the tire, a better bang for your buck!!


_Modified by teutoned at 12:43 PM 1-2-2009_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: "BITE PARTICLES" in snow tires (Pat Dolan)*

tires with eggshell bite particles
















ESPIA EPZ compound contains Micro Eggshells, real powdered egg shells that are harder than ice, yet softer than asphalt. A unique development that grips icy roads without damaging road surfaces – and it‘s eco-friendly!


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: (teutoned)*

From a practical standpoint, the tires' deep snow traction is much weaker below 6/32" tread depth, so that's where the bite particles stop as well.


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_From a practical standpoint, the tires' deep snow traction is much weaker below 6/32" tread depth, so that's where the bite particles stop as well.

i'm a tire guy so i understand that a tire thats half worn pretty much stinks compared to the new one but your average consumer is not going to replace the tire at 6/32nds. they usually say that its still got "some meat, its still good" and drive it. to the average consumer, replacing a tire at 6/32nds is NOT practical. IMO - blizzaks are kind of a rip off. for more sustainable safety... http://www.nokiantires.com!!


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: (teutoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teutoned* »_i'm a tire guy so i understand that a tire thats half worn pretty much stinks compared to the new one but your average consumer is not going to replace the tire at 6/32nds. they usually say that its still got "some meat, its still good" and drive it. to the average consumer, replacing a tire at 6/32nds is NOT practical. IMO - blizzaks are kind of a rip off. !

understood, I'm not here to defend Bridgestone, just explain the "logic". In Japan, it is illegal to start the winter driving season with the tire below 6/32", so that factors into their design (even if it doesn't apply to everyone else)


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ In Japan, it is illegal to start the winter driving season with the tire below 6/32"... 

brilliant! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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