# Flooding the engine



## buzzard217 (Mar 30, 2007)

I have CIS problems. Here is the link to a previous starting problem thread,
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4807139
With that problem solved and it turning over now, the engine is flooding big time. If I jump the fuel pump relay all 4 injectors spray constantly with out the fuel distributor flapper being pulled. So while cranking the car the injectors are steady spraying and flooding it. I can pull the fuel pump relay and it"ll run like a champ till it runs out of fuel. What do I begin to do to narrow this problem down?
ps: I also posted this in the mk1 forum, no bites yet


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

First lets look at the injectors themselves, they open via pressure and not like EFI injectors which use electricity. So for them to be spraying all the time enough pressure has to be there all the time to open them, which it is if things are working right. So forget looking there. 
Now if it is flooding (getting too much fuel to burn it all or to stay running) the pressure and /or volume is to high for the situation. What controls that is the plunger inside the fuel distributor based on the position of the air sensor plate. So without going back to read the prior post you refered to, I'll ask a question or two.
~ Have you checked the rest position of the air sensor plate?
~ Have you checked the plunger for free movement?
~ Have you, or someone else, done any work to or around the fuel mixture unit?


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## buzzard217 (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: (WaterWheels)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WaterWheels* »_First lets look at the injectors themselves, they open via pressure and not like EFI injectors which use electricity. So for them to be spraying all the time enough pressure has to be there all the time to open them, which it is if things are working right. So forget looking there. 

Sounds good too me. 

_Quote, originally posted by *WaterWheels* »_Now if it is flooding (getting too much fuel to burn it all or to stay running) the pressure and /or volume is to high for the situation. What controls that is the plunger inside the fuel distributor based on the position of the air sensor plate. So without going back to read the prior post you refered to, I'll ask a question or two.
1. Have you checked the rest position of the air sensor plate?
2. Have you checked the plunger for free movement?
3. Have you, or someone else, done any work to or around the fuel mixture unit? 

1. No, but willing
2. No, but willing
3. Following detailed instructions, I adjusted the 4, 3mm adjusters for each fuel injector line. I could not back them out enough to make the injector close. It does appear that someone has turned the flat head screws on top of the fuel distributor. This rabbit has sat for at least 4 years.
Thanks for your help.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (buzzard217)*

Refer to the picture below. From what you just said you had someone instruct you to turn the Allen head screws marked "A". If this is correct it was a mistake. The fuel distributor may very well never function right again unless you can find someone who can set the flow for each port, doubt using a container with markings and a stop watch will get it correct? By flat head screws, are you talking about the ones marked with "B" in the photo? If so these just hold the fuel distributor to the air sensor unit.
Sitting for four years may have gummed up the fuel distributor, fuel starts turning to varnish after a while (more or less). So checking the free movement of the plunger is a good idea. By willing does that mean you are going to do it or you will if someone explains how to? Do you have a good repair manual?


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## buzzard217 (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: (WaterWheels)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WaterWheels* »_Refer to the picture below. From what you just said you had someone instruct you to turn the Allen head screws marked "A". 

yes

_Quote, originally posted by *WaterWheels* »_If this is correct it was a mistake. The fuel distributor may very well never function right again unless you can find someone who can set the flow for each port, doubt using a container with markings and a stop watch will get it correct? 

that's basically what my instructions say. I hope I can get it back where it needs to be. 

_Quote, originally posted by *WaterWheels* »_By flat head screws, are you talking about the ones marked with "B" in the photo? If so these just hold the fuel distributor to the air sensor unit.

yes

_Quote, originally posted by *WaterWheels* »_Sitting for four years may have gummed up the fuel distributor, fuel starts turning to varnish after a while (more or less). So checking the free movement of the plunger is a good idea. By willing does that mean you are going to do it or you will if someone explains how to? Do you have a good repair manual?


Im willing to try anything at this point to get this thing running. Most of this stuff I will need some instructions on. I do have a bently manual.


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## ToddA1 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: (buzzard217)*

"A" are just caps. The valves are under them.
There are volume to time specs listed in the Bentley. As simple as these systems are, I'd do it... you have nothing to lose. 
FWIW, when I've rebuilt these things, I just counted the turns and reset them to that. I've had no issues. Obviously set everything to spec.
Honestly, buying a known good FD will be the easiest, but where's the adventure in that? You also get the warm fuzzy feeling of accomplishment.
-Todd


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (ToddA1)*

Where do you get rebuild parts? I have an internally leaking -E meter that I'd love to try my hand at rebuilding.


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## buzzard217 (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: (ToddA1)*

yeah I backed out those caps and adjusted the valves. however I did not count the turns. Im going to give a shot at taking it aparts and cleaning it. Nothing to lose at this point since its not really working. Im going to start with the plunger and see what that does. thanks!


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## ToddA1 (Apr 22, 2002)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*

Hmmm... how the heck did I get in the CIS forum? I originally posted to something in the Golf 1 forums.... I guess 2 threads with the same title will get you e-mail notification, no matter where you start.
WWR didn't like the fact that I wetsanded the plunger. Oh well, I do it, it works and doesn't leak. I'll continue to do it, if I feel the need. Mind you, I don't go crazy. I hold the tip, and if I spin the plunger between my fingers and the sandpaper for more than 3 or 4 rotations, I'm not paying attention. I'm only looking to get the plunger to slide easily in the bore. If it's not hung up at all, don't sand it..... 1000 grit will be doing just a minute clean up.
When I mentioned counting the turns, I should have clarified. At the factory setting, count the turns as you're rotating the valves clockwise (closed). When I'm ready to reassemble, I'll go all the way down, then back out what I counted. IIRC, a VW tech told me 2.5 turns was a good starting point. I think I recall the OP saying he was going counter clockwise, trying to stop the spraying.... It's been a while, but I think that's wrong.
Anywho, there isn't really too much to rebuild or replace. I clean the parts thoroughly and surgically clean, and I reassemble everything. I've never gone as far as trying to measure the resistance of the springs. Other than the springs, o-rings and the screen, everything else is metal and shouldn't be able to go bad. If it's rusted I junk it. If the screen is torn or beyond cleaning (which I've never experienced), I'd trash it.
I use carb cleaner on all the parts other than the o-rings, (and yes, I have reused the o-rings in a pinch). Carb cleaner will make the o-rings swell like crazy, so don't do that.... WD-40 works fine.
Pep Boys sells a nitrile (Buna-N) o-ring assortment, but I went behind the counter and opened a bunch of boxes until I found what I needed. I needed 4 kits. 
Don't use anything abrasive on the steel shim. I use carb cleaner on a microfiber towel to get the factory sealer off.
Use a bit of Vaseline or WD-40 in the main bore, when reassembling everything and don't force it.... you can tear the o-rings. I've read where people have used Permatex Indian sealing paste, but a Permatex tech told me to use Anerobic Gasket Sealer 51813 on the steel shim. He knew exactly what I was referring to.
Take notice (in the fully disassembled pic) that I have all the pieces to the plunger housing laid out exactly as they were disassembled. Work smart and you won't have any issues. What's shown below is all that I have, but all that's missing is the bottom half and the main relief valve assembly.
-Todd


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (ToddA1)*

Neat. Do you replace the diaphragm, the big rubber looking sheet in those pictures?

What's it made of?


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## ToddA1 (Apr 22, 2002)

Not sure what rubber sheet you're referring to. I guess the only thing that could be like a sheet would be the steel shim that I mentioned. It's thinner than a razor blade, so be gentle with it. 

-Todd


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

V


ToddA1 said:


> Not sure what rubber sheet you're referring to. I guess the only thing that could be like a sheet would be the steel shim that I mentioned. It's thinner than a razor blade, so be gentle with it.


 Oh, so the sheet between the halves is steel? Good to know! Thanks!


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## buzzard217 (Mar 30, 2007)

:UPDATE:

The plunger was stuck in there. I thinnk so much crap was stuck in the distributor that it stopped all fuel flow. I thought I had it fixed. I took the thing apart cleaned it and put it all back together and its acting up just as much as before. I cant seem to find the rebuid kit you have pictured. I think that would help to replace all those seals inside. I just cant get the injectors to close with the air meter closed even when adjusting the "A" valves.


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