# Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion"



## Driver72 (Nov 29, 2000)

As I understood, they were basically identical, VW just changing the name.
A friend of mine stated he read that the VW's wasn't as good. He stated that it was a 60/40 power split in the 4 motion and the Audi is a true Quattro with 50/50 power distribution. I was skeptical, but may be true.
Does anybody know the differences between them or are they identical?
Thanks.


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## candywhitepassat (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (Driver72)*

Quattro and Syncro/4motion are the same thing (although, there are two systems...Torsen(B2 Passat, B5(.5) Passat, A4, A6, A8), and Haldex(A3, TT, Bora, Golf, Sharan, B3 Passat, B4 Passat).


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## Quattrophile (Jun 1, 2000)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (candyweißpassat)*

Torsen and Haldex have only to do with the type of center diff and not the whole system. Syncro is not the same as Quattro, never has been never will be and Syncro is not the same as 4Motion. 4Motion and Quattro are close but there are a few minor differences as I understand it. There is a comparo somewhere and I'll see if I can dig it up.


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## GTi TDi (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (candyweißpassat)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Quattro and Syncro/4motion are the same thing (although, there are two systems...Torsen(B2 Passat, B5(.5) Passat, A4, A6, A8), and Haldex(A3, TT, Bora, Golf, Sharan, B3 Passat, B4 Passat).[HR][/HR]​Sharan, B3 Passat and B4 Passat are not equipped with Haldex.


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## DerGolfGTI (Feb 21, 1999)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (GTi TDi)*

This is a bit tricky - the confusion is because "Quattro", "Syncro" and "4Motion" are marketing names and do not imply a given technology anymore. For example, "Quattro" on an Audi A4 (Torsen center differential) is different from "Quattro" on an Audi TT (Haldex center differential).
The original quattro system used by Audi in the 1980s. Today "Quattro" is most often associated with using Audi's Torsen center differential, but again, "Quattro" is now a marketing term. 
VW's "Syncro" system, as used on the Transporter, A2 (non US) Golfs and some other cars was actually a Steyr-Puch system with a viscous center diff. Some of these cars were actually built in Austria at the Puch facility, not at a VW plant.
The new cars with transverse engines (Audi TT, A4 Golf) use a Swedish center differential (Haldex) which is electronically controlled. The cars with the regular north-south engine (Audi A4, Passat) use a Torsen type center diff.
For a good discussion on all wheel drive (much better than the above), see: http://home.attbi.com/~eliot_www/awd.html 
Tom
98 GTI (VR6)
00 Bug (1.8T)


[Modified by tdoblmaier, 6:37 PM 1-17-2002]


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## candywhitepassat (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (GTi TDi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Sharan, B3 Passat and B4 Passat are not equipped with Haldex.[HR][/HR]​Maybee it wasn't Haldex, but they do have a Viscuous Coupling, as opposed to a Torque-Sensing gear.
quote:[HR][/HR]Syncro is not the same as Quattro, never has been never will be and Syncro is not the same as 4Motion.[HR][/HR]​The first VW with "Syncro" was the Passat (Quantum) Syncro, it used the same Torsen system as the Audi 80 (4000) Quattro. Soon after that, the A-Chassis, and T-Chassis Volkswagens became available with a VC system which was also named "Syncro". When the Passats changed over to a transverse layout (B3 and B4), they could no longer use Audi's Torsen system, and switched over to a VC. When the first B5 Passat "Syncro" came out in 1998 (in Europe), it had the same Torsen system as Audi's Quattro; then in 2000 when it was available in the US, they changed the name from Syncro to 4motion...same system, different names.


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## GTi TDi (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (tdoblmaier)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The new cars with transverse engines (Audi TT, A4 Golf) use a Swedish center *differential* (Haldex) which is electronically controlled.[HR][/HR]​It's actually a clutch.
http://www.haldex-traction.com/technical_information/design_info/basic_function.htm# 










[Modified by GTi TDi, 11:07 PM 1-18-2002]


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## candywhitepassat (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (Driver72)*

Here's some technical drawings for comparisson...








*4Motion - electronically controlled all-wheel drive for cars with transverse engines*
Ever since the successful application of electronics to the ABS anti-lock braking system and the ESP electronic stability program, automobile engineers have been looking into ways of using electronic control as a means of distributing torque between the front and rear wheels of the car. Volkswagen has found the key to this with its Haldex coupling. This is a multi-plate clutch running in an oilbath. The plates are pressed together axially to a degree corresponding with the amount of torque that is to be redistributed. The pressure depends on accelerator pedal position, engine speed and wheel slip, and is regulated electronically by this device, which is mounted ahead of the rear axle, to such good effect that the experts' list of requirements is entirely satisfied.
It makes permanent all-wheel drive available to a variable extent as soon as the car begins to move. 
It guarantees directional stability when accelerating and road behavior between neutral and mild understeer in normal operating conditions, but even a slight amount of oversteer when excess power is available 
its response when coasting is also devoid of extremes; it does not suffer from trapped stresses when maneuvering the car, tolerates wheels of different circumferences (for instance the temporary spare wheel) and enables the car to be towed away with one axle raised clear of the ground. 
In particular, it harmonizes well with all wheel slip control systems such as the antilock braking system (ABS), traction control (ASR), the electronic differential lock (EDL) and the driving stability program (ESP). 








*All-wheel drive with self-locking Torsen differential for vehicles with longitudinally installed engine*
Within the Volkswagen Group, all-wheel-drive vehicles with the engine installed longitudinally make use of the system which, thanks to its reliability and lack of complexity, helped to popularize all-wheel drive for roadgoing saloon cars up to twenty years ago and which has already been fitted to almost a million of them. Its key element is the Torsen self-locking center differential. In contrast to various all-wheel-drive systems with electronic wheel slip control by brake application, this system drives all four wheels permanently, normally with a 50:50 torque split between front and rear. If slip develops at either the front or rear wheels, up to 75 percent of the torque can be redirected to the wheels at which better traction is available.
This is a purely mechanical system, but is fully compatible with ABS, since a reduction in drive torque cancels its locking action. The ingenious design used on all-wheel-drive vehicles with a manual gearbox, in which a hollow shaft enables the power to be transmitted to the car's second axle, could not be retained on cars with automatic transmission, but the shaft leading to the front-axle final drive is none the less accommodated within the transmission housing. For some years now this all-wheel-drive system has been giving excellent results in the Group's most powerful saloon-car models.


[Modified by candyweißpassat, 3:56 PM 1-18-2002]


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## Cullen (Apr 5, 1999)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (GTi TDi)*

The Syncro and 4motion are very similair in principle, but the later is electronically regulated and made in Sweden while Syncro is not.


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## GTi TDi (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (Cullen)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The Syncro and 4motion are very similair in principle, but the later is electronically regulated and made in Sweden while Syncro is not.[HR][/HR]​I think you need to read the whole thread a little more carefully








Syncro and 4motion can mean different things depending on the make and year of the car.


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## Cullen (Apr 5, 1999)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (GTi TDi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The Syncro and 4motion are very similair in principle, but the later is electronically regulated and made in Sweden while Syncro is not.
I think you need to read the whole thread a little more carefully








Syncro and 4motion can mean different things depending on the make and year of the car.[HR][/HR]​Jo jag såg nog att du skrev det, men tänkte bara göra en snabb kommentar








Yeah you're right some of the models have been "cross badged" to keep the whole family badged the same


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## Cullen (Apr 5, 1999)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (GTi TDi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The Syncro and 4motion are very similair in principle, but the later is electronically regulated and made in Sweden while Syncro is not.
I think you need to read the whole thread a little more carefully








Syncro and 4motion can mean different things depending on the make and year of the car.[HR][/HR]​BTW you should be in bed just like I should








2am here.. 1 am in "Göteborg".


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## GTi TDi (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (Cullen)*

quote:[HR][/HR]BTW you should be in bed just like I should








2am here.. 1 am in "Göteborg".[HR][/HR]​Yes I should










[Modified by GTi TDi, 1:22 AM 1-20-2002]


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## Driver72 (Nov 29, 2000)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (candyweißpassat)*

Thanks all for the responses. That clarifies it a little bit, so basically, both the 4motion and the Quattro use two slightly varying systems based on if the engines are longitudinal or transversely mounted?
So let's compare a 2002 VW Passat 2.8 4Motion with an Audi A4 3.0 Quattro?
Are these systems identical or slightly different?
Do they both run a 50:50 power split under normal operation? And do they both transfer up to 75% of their power to the front or back as needed?
Thanks again!


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## G60syncro (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (Driver72)*

the 2.8 Passat is based on the B5 (B5.5) platform, the Audi is based on the B6 platform... So basically the systems should be pretty much the same, but we can assume that there will be some minor refinements to the B6's platform... So there will be some minor differences; more sensors here and there, a more intelligent brain, stuff like that... But the next Passat based on the B6 platform will share the same system as it's Audi sibling.


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## candywhitepassat (Jan 14, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (G60syncro)*

quote:[HR][/HR]But the next Passat based on the B6 platform will share the same system as it's Audi sibling.[HR][/HR]​The next Passat (~2004/5) will only use the rear end from the Audi A4, the front end will be from the Golf; and will be using the Haldex system.


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## Andrman (Apr 6, 2001)

*Re: Audi's "Quattro" vs. VW's "4Motion" (G60syncro)*

Dang y'all 'er smart fellas!


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