# Anyone run 3 Viair 444c? How is the wiring and will stock alternator work?



## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

I'm considering buying two more 444cs for my setup. Wondering how that may work in terms of wiring and also if our stock alternators (MK4) can handle the amperage? Anyone done this before? 

I guess from my reading max draw amps are 38 amps from the spec sheet on Viairs website. Is that for both compressors or each one? If its for each one (38A x 3= 114A) that means it will be over the 90A created by our alternators?

I will be running 200 psi but do not know what the amp draw is for a triple 444c system. 

Would love a little clarification here. Thank you!

PS: with three compressors and a 2.5 gallon tank would my refresh time be: 
95sec (5gal spec) x 2.5/5= 47.5s
With an additional compressor: 47.5s x 2/3= *31.6s *


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## Slamtastic (Jul 24, 2010)

1 OB2 will fill a 2.5 gallon tank in around 35 seconds IIRC. Why not just go that route and keep your 444c plumbed in as a spare?

And yes, you will need a bigger alternator to run 3 compressors. :thumbup:


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Slamtastic said:


> 1 OB2 will fill a 2.5 gallon tank in around 35 seconds IIRC. Why not just go that route and keep your 444c plumbed in as a spare?
> 
> And yes, you will need a bigger alternator to run 3 compressors. :thumbup:


Aha you calgary guys love OB2's eh. Is that your setup?

I may consider it....but they are just so expensive!


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Also curious, will how do you calculate the amp draw anyways? Is it as I did in the first post?

And second, in continue with that, will two OB2's need a new alternator?


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Slamtastic said:


> 1 OB2 will fill a 2.5 gallon tank in around 35 seconds IIRC. Why not just go that route and keep your 444c plumbed in as a spare?
> 
> And yes, you will need a bigger alternator to run 3 compressors. :thumbup:


Judging from MechEngg's response from his build, I think triple 444's may work! Amp draw is only 57A and with a 90A alternator shouldn't be a problem although pushing it.



MechEngg said:


> Actually the max draw on DUAL 444's is 38A (will be maximum 35A due to the pressure range i am running it at). Therefore TRIPLE 444's will run me only 57A maximum and i can deal with that. In comparison i used to run 750W RMS for my two subs which had a fairly high current draw and my alternator did fine.
> 
> BTW i only have a 90A alternator so yes i am upgrading it to a 120A. This should be more than enough for my setup but thanks for trying to look at all the aspects of the build
> 
> ...


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## Slamtastic (Jul 24, 2010)

Oh okay, I see now that its only 38A for 2. So a bigger alt is not necessary. Also didn't see that you have a GLI so you should have a 120A alt unless it has been replaced with a 90A, so you should be good to go. But also remember that is 120A peak, I'm not sure what it is at idle but I'm sure you're still fine. 

But I do still think that 1 OB2 is the way to go.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Slamtastic said:


> Oh okay, I see now that its only 38A for 2. So a bigger alt is not necessary. Also didn't see that you have a GLI so you should have a 120A alt unless it has been replaced with a 90A, so you should be good to go. But also remember that is 120A peak, I'm not sure what it is at idle but I'm sure you're still fine.
> 
> But I do still think that 1 OB2 is the way to go.


Yeah I envy you boys. Do you guys ever come down to vancouver? We should hang out for an air-fest. 

I have lots of good friends over in Calgary, might come over sometime to check out your rides.


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## Slamtastic (Jul 24, 2010)

ornithology said:


> Yeah I envy you boys. Do you guys ever come down to vancouver? We should hang out for an air-fest.
> 
> I have lots of good friends over in Calgary, might come over sometime to check out your rides.


I personally don't head west very often, but I do know that some locals are heading that way (somewhat) for the leavenworth drive.

There are a few shows throughout the summer, you're always welcome to make the trip.  :thumbup:


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Man look through all the threads and still can't confirm how to wire these compressors up. I just want to use the 3 VIAIR relays. I just don't know how to hook up the inline fuse and whether I need a 8 gauge power line with inline fuse to run to the relay. 

I'm an accountant by profession but clearly wiring is not my forte. Appreciate input (or diagrams)


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## Bierce IV (Apr 5, 2010)

Just switched from my dual 444c's to and ob2. Ill never go back. But, I did upgrade my alternator to a 120a and yellow top battery when I ran the viar's. it ran a lot smoother with all the accessories I was running.


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

I'd ditch that yellow top, they're not all they're cracked up to be.


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

I'm definitely thinking about upgrading my alt just to be safe.

Best way to wire everything up is to run 1 power wire to some sort of distrobution board and run your electronics off there.


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

connoisseurr said:


> I'm definitely thinking about upgrading my alt just to be safe.
> 
> Best way to wire everything up is to run 1 power wire to some sort of distrobution board and run your electronics off there.


Power cable >> Stinger Relay >> Fused Distribution Block >> Compressors

Best/safest way to wire your system. That way each compressor has it's own circuit and one compressor will not take down your entire system. :thumbup::beer:


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Power cable >> Stinger Relay >> Fused Distribution Block >> Compressors
> 
> Best/safest way to wire your system. That way each compressor has it's own circuit and one compressor will not take down your entire system. :thumbup::beer:


One up'd with details - but this is exactly how it should be done. Nothing gets fried - only can pop a fuse or relay. Thanks for the added info on there, Andrew! :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

connoisseurr said:


> One up'd with details - but this is exactly how it should be done. Nothing gets fried - only can pop a fuse or relay. Thanks for the added info on there, Andrew! :thumbup:


Not a problem, happy to help. :thumbup: :beer:


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Power cable >> Stinger Relay >> Fused Distribution Block >> Compressors
> 
> Best/safest way to wire your system. That way each compressor has it's own circuit and one compressor will not take down your entire system. :thumbup::beer:


So this power cable is seperate from the one that powers my ECU?


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## Bierce IV (Apr 5, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I'd ditch that yellow top, they're not all they're cracked up to be.


the new ones absolutely not. I dont know what they changed but there not like they used to be. I was just talking to someone about this earlier not sure who it was.


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## babydubz (Dec 13, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Power cable >> Stinger Relay >> Fused Distribution Block >> Compressors
> 
> Best/safest way to wire your system. That way each compressor has it's own circuit and one compressor will not take down your entire system. :thumbup::beer:


:thumbup: x2 

That's what I used to hook up my dual 444c's. Super easy and clean way to deal with all the wiring.



ornithology said:


> So this power cable is seperate from the one that powers my ECU?


Not sure how your V2 works, but memory serves me right, I tied my ECU power to the power post on the Stinger relay (I think) for my e-Level. I used this handy diagram that Andrew made. Hope it helps you out










Or just gimme a shout and you can have a look at mine!


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

babydubz said:


> :thumbup: x2
> 
> That's what I used to hook up my dual 444c's. Super easy and clean way to deal with all the wiring.
> 
> ...


Sup man! Thanks for the reply.

So you're saying to get a stinger relay (80A I guess?)

-So the switched power comes from the ignition (or fuse panel)

-The battery lead, what does it mean "from dist block"? Like it could have been from a battery or from a dist block? If it's from a dist block what gauge wires are acceptable? And also, I see two compressor positives on there, I don't think that will work with three compressors? (20A each, 60A max, 80A is cutting it close?) But with three stinger relays that's going to cost a fortune.

-In addition, the black line from the battery lead (or dist block) what size fuse would you put inline on that wire? And what gauge would you use for my application?


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## babydubz (Dec 13, 2007)

*So you're saying to get a stinger relay (80A I guess?)*

Yeah. I ordered the Open Road Tuning wiring kit and that's the one that came with it.

*So the switched power comes from the ignition (or fuse panel)*

I tapped into my center console cigarette lighter but you can definitely do the fuse panel too. 


*The battery lead, what does it mean "from dist block"? Like it could have been from a battery or from a dist block? If it's from a dist block what gauge wires are acceptable? And also, I see two compressor positives on there, I don't think that will work with three compressors? (20A each, 60A max, 80A is cutting it close?) But with three stinger relays that's going to cost a fortune.*

That's the wire from the battery. I ran 4ga. Usually the lower the better, but it might be a bit harder to tuck away 'cause it's so thick. I won't be able to chime in much about running 3 compressors off that single block though since I'm just running 2, but I'm sure you won't need three relays. 

*In addition, the black line from the battery lead (or dist block) what size fuse would you put inline on that wire? And what gauge would you use for my application?*

Again for me, this came with my kit. Might be a lot easier than trying to source each piece. The link on the new ORT site doesn't seem to be working so I can't check for you right now.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Power cable >> Stinger Relay >> Fused Distribution Block >> Compressors
> 
> Best/safest way to wire your system. That way each compressor has it's own circuit and one compressor will not take down your entire system. :thumbup::beer:


Hey Andrew thanks for the input. I may just give you a call about this. 

As for your website, I find it a challenge to load up. I've used chrome, safari. and IE and all had some sort of issues loading it. Might want to look into that. A little too graphic heavy to me and its a shame as I'm sure there would have been a lot of good info I could have found.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

babydubz said:


> *So you're saying to get a stinger relay (80A I guess?)*
> 
> Yeah. I ordered the Open Road Tuning wiring kit and that's the one that came with it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Calvin!

I'll give ORT a shout tmrw and place an order once I figure this out. That and find a computer that can load up the site. Are you having any issues? I even tried osx products, ipad doesn't load it and the iPhone loads only the home screen.


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## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Hey! Now i know why you PM'd me the other day. :laugh:

Ummmm i might caution you against running only a 2.5 gallon tank, if you run a small tank like that your compressors will turn on every time you raise your car to your ride height (which for me would get annoying but if you are ok with that then thats your decision to make and it will keep your fill times down)

I would highly recommend a single OB2 over dual 444s anyday. The OB2 wins in every category except price (and it still comes close). The OB2 is:
- $50 more expensive
- Takes up less trunk space than running 2 444's
- 100% duty cycle at 200psi, where as the 444's are only 100% at 100psi, more around 50% at 200psi
- 35A draw compared to 38A draw for dual 444's
- 71 second refill time from 165-200 compared to 95 seconds for dual 444s
- cold to the touch, even when running in the middle of the summer, the viairs get extremely hot to the touch
- 2 year warranty compared to the 1 year viair warranty


If that isn't enough to convince you to spend the extra $50 then i'm obviously not cut out to be a salesman (hence why i'm an engineer instead) 


As for your alternator, you will be fine with either setup (triple 444 or 444+OB2) as long as your battery isn't extremely old. If you notice that your car is getting harder and harder to start then your battery is probably about to die and get it replaced. For either of these setups i would run a 2 gauge wire minimum to your trunk, then use a fused distribution block to supply power to each of your compressors/amps/devices. Its the simplest way to do it and will be easiest for diagnosing any issues in the future. Use a 100A or larger fuse between the battery and the fused distribution block, then a suitable fuse going to each compressor, that way the smaller fuse will blow and you will still be able to use the other compressor/your valves and you won't be stuck on the side of the road/in a parking lot trying to replace fuses in the middle of the winter.

Hope this helps a bit

:wave:


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

MechEngg said:


> Hey! Now i know why you PM'd me the other day. :laugh:
> 
> Ummmm i might caution you against running only a 2.5 gallon tank, if you run a small tank like that your compressors will turn on every time you raise your car to your ride height (which for me would get annoying but if you are ok with that then thats your decision to make and it will keep your fill times down)
> 
> ...


Haha thanks bro, appreciate your input and your sales pitch 

I'm fully convinced about the OB2's and eventually will go that direction (will want 3 OB2's as well) but I already have two Viair 444's (one was damaged) but I bought two more already and it still ended up being cheaper. So in the meantime I will be running triple 444's.

As for the wiring, my Autopilot V2 actually has it's own power harness from the battery. So you are saying in addition to running that harness, also run a seperate 2g one just for my compressors? My V2 harness comes with a relay and can already support one compressor but it is not fused. Will it work for me to continue with my V2 harness to power one compressor, then use a power wire (will 2g be overkill for just two compressors?) to a dist block to power the other two?

As for tank size, I've contemplated the 5 gal. My only concern right now is that I play a lot of ice hockey and may be having a kid sometime in the near future. I really want to have that extra trunk space and a 5 gal may be too large. I guess the deciding factor for me is this: how many times can a 3 gal lift my car to ride height and how many times can a 5 gal do it before compressors kick in? Going from 165-200psi is really only 36secs with triple 444's and I would imagine under a minute with a 5 gal. Second is that 5 gal tanks are usually about an inch or two higher (10" height) whereas the 3 gal is only 8-8.25" and fits perfectly for a lateral setup (as you know the mk4 trunk gets shallower as you get closer to the edge).


So excited, once I have this sorted out the planning has ended and the building begins. Will have a build thread shortly.


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## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

ornithology said:


> Haha thanks bro, appreciate your input and your sales pitch
> 
> I'm fully convinced about the OB2's and eventually will go that direction (will want 3 OB2's as well) but I already have two Viair 444's (one was damaged) but I bought two more already and it still ended up being cheaper. So in the meantime I will be running triple 444's.
> *Alright didn't know your situation, good plan* :thumbup:
> ...


Come visit in the summer! :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

ornithology said:


> Thanks Calvin!
> 
> I'll give ORT a shout tmrw and place an order once I figure this out. That and find a computer that can load up the site. Are you having any issues? I even tried osx products, ipad doesn't load it and the iPhone loads only the home screen.


The site works fine for me and I checked it on my two computers at home too.

Sorry you're having issues, just drop me an email: [email protected] or call direct: 610.572.2898 - you won't get any stupid menus, you'll get a real person!


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

MechEngg said:


> As for the wiring, my Autopilot V2 actually has it's own power harness from the battery. So you are saying in addition to running that harness, also run a seperate 2g one just for my compressors? My V2 harness comes with a relay and can already support one compressor but it is not fused. Will it work for me to continue with my V2 harness to power one compressor, then use a power wire (will 2g be overkill for just two compressors?) to a dist block to power the other two?
> 
> *Yes you will have to run a wire separate wire to the trunk to power compressors, i would run the V2 wiring harness to that distribution block since it will have power, that way you don't have to run as many wires. I'm not 100% on the triple compressor wiring for the V2 because lots of people are having problems with it but if it were me i would run a single cube relay, which provided power to three other cube relays (1 per compressor). That way there is only the strain of 1 40A relay on the V2 management*
> 
> Come visit in the summer! :thumbup:


Only concern with using the original V2 harness is the power line not being thick enough (low gauge) and therefore causing overheating or affecting the amperage? (correct me I may be wrong, you are much more familiar with the technical wiring). I was planning originally to use the cube's but how would I run a fuse so that if one blows it won't stop all my compressors? 

Do you guys over in Calgary come down to Great Canadian VW?



[email protected] said:


> The site works fine for me and I checked it on my two computers at home too.
> 
> Sorry you're having issues, just drop me an email: [email protected] or call direct: 610.572.2898 - you won't get any stupid menus, you'll get a real person!


Might give you a call today. Yeah it's strange, tried the work computer and it works. Maybe the technology at home is really out of date.... -__-

**Edit** Nvm it also doesn't work on the work computer. I click power supply and then I just see the apple loading circle (the circle made of dots that blink)
Thanks Andrew, I may drop you a line.


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

That's due to not all the product being loaded into the site yet. We're also going to be recoding/styling the site in the next week.

Just shoot me a call or email, I'll get you taken care of...


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> That's due to not all the product being loaded into the site yet. We're also going to be recoding/styling the site in the next week.
> 
> Just shoot me a call or email, I'll get you taken care of...


Sounds like you need some help with that website :laugh: Shout out if I can help in any way. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

connoisseurr said:


> Sounds like you need some help with that website :laugh: Shout out if I can help in any way. :beer:


We should have it all sorted out by next week. It's just going to take a hot minute to get the product loaded up...

Did you get your box yet?


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We should have it all sorted out by next week. It's just going to take a hot minute to get the product loaded up...
> 
> Did you get your box yet?


I can confirm for you that I haven't had a 404 or any other error on the page yet - running Win 8 and Mountain Lion. Ornithology clear your temp files on Safari or w/e browser you use and try again. Otherwise call your ISP and demand something haha.

Just got home from work - nothing as of yet. UPS usually comes by around 6 so I'll be patiently waiting. Will be in touch with you Andrew as I might need to get a few more things from ya.


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## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

The website is working, just slow as molasses


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

MechEngg said:


> The website is working, just slow as molasses


We've speed tested it numerous times and it's pulling up just fine for us. Clear your cache and reset your browser


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Well...

Here's what I mocked up for the triple compressor diagram. Hope this looks feasible and helpful for others as well.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Not sure if this is a better image


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

Looks good from what I can see - can't read some of your writing though. Use this as a reference for a diagram - something similar that came with my eLevel package


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Wondering if I'll need a rebuld for one of my compressors.

Compressor 1 looks good to me:









IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img541/1995/photo7ra.jpg[/IMG]

























Compressor 2 has a strange mark on the piston surface:


























Waiting on my third compressor to arrive


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

I have a question in terms of aligning my fuses.

Originally, I was going to be having 8AWG inline AMP 30A fuses to my VIAIR 40A relay from my distribution block.










Using these inline fuses: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003DFIW1S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1IBW2HULNJLEY










To clean it up a bit, I was wondering if it would be possible to use this fuse distribution block instead and from this fuse wire it to the respective VIAIR 40A relay? However, this fuse block used will be using AGU 30A instead.

Here is the distribution fuse block in question: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VX9Z7A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER










This is the distribution POWER block I'm planning on using: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002EXMIG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER










Please provide input. Ordering soon!


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

What did you use to mock up that diagram? I'd like to make one to show you what I am doing - similar using exactly what you're using. It would be easier for me to diagram it rather than explaining.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

connoisseurr said:


> What did you use to mock up that diagram? I'd like to make one to show you what I am doing - similar using exactly what you're using. It would be easier for me to diagram it rather than explaining.


Just the one above and from my manual which are from bagriders tech info section.


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

ornithology said:


> Just the one above and from my manual which are from bagriders tech info section.


Well, until I can get into work and fire up Vizio, here's what I got:

That 4 gauge setup is exactly what I'm using and the above looks great up until the power distribution block; I would add a Stinger relay right before that to give a constant steady flow of power (this is handled by tapping into an ignition power source). 

From the Stinger relay, run a 4 gauge power line to your input on the power distribution board (PDB). I would run EVERYTHING from this board (compressors and V2). Because the board is fused, no inline fuse will be necessary beyond the PDB. 



For the three compressors, you will pull a power line from the distribution board and run it each compressor relay power source . 
Ground ... well that's pretty clear. 
Power to unit (compressor) goes to the compressor. 
For the IGN source (of each of the compressors, create a triple tap on the V2 ignition wire to run to each point on your relay.



This way, everything is fused separately and it won't leave you stranded. I would ALWAYS keep spare fuses with you for the power lead from battery wire, as well as spare fuses for the PDB - aging to help you NOT be stranded. Fuses do crap out from time to time so it's a good idea to have them. 

Also, connections will be PRIME if you can solder everything. Crimp-style connectors are a good, easy to get up and running method of doing things but if you want a true, 100% reliable wiring system, solder as much as you can.



This is the PDB i'm using - used it before for amp installs and have never had a problem. 0/4 gauge input, 8 gauge output. Used the wafer or ANL style fuse.









Stinger relay 80amp pre-PDB


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

connoisseurr said:


> Well, until I can get into work and fire up Vizio, here's what I got:
> 
> That 4 gauge setup is exactly what I'm using and the above looks great up until the power distribution block; I would add a Stinger relay right before that to give a constant steady flow of power (this is handled by tapping into an ignition power source).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your detailed response!


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Anyways I thought about it and thought I would just draw it out to show you what I mean. Sorry guys for those who know this in and out and find it silly for me to spend so much time just to figure out how to wire three compressors together. Reason is that I rather plan everything out ahead of time and be problem free in the future- or at least be familiar enough to know where the issues may be located. Also I'm sure not everyone is a tech and this could help others in the same shoes!

*Question 1)* I'm assuming the black wire (-) does not need to be connected when using the distributor? For some strange reason on my V2 manual illustrates that the black wire IS used and get's split up to connect to the ECU, Compressor, and remote. If I'm grounding the compressor and relays to a grounding block--> metal, then do I still need to the black wire coming from the battery to connect to those components? And as for the grounding block, can I ground it directly to the trunk (metal) or is it recommended to send it back to the battery (-)?

Anyhow, here's my wiring diagram I drew. Is it correct?









*Question 2)* If I was to put a manual shut-off switch to disable the compressors where would I splice?


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

Made a few changes myself - I am unfamiliar with V2 so I'm hoping it all adds up.

For the black wire, it's usually most always a ground, unless BROWN has been specified to be a ground. You do NOT have to run this back to your battery - all you need is a good contact point on the a metal piece of your vehicle. Make sure to rough up the surface if any paint exists overtop the metal (this will help create a better ground).

Let me know if you have any other questions/inputs/comments. Anyone else feel free to chime in on this to confirm the diagram.


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

Damn Connor, do work man! :laugh:


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

Alright, so I spent a little time this morning creating my wiring diagram to include 2 compressors, stinger relay, and a fused dist. block. I tried to match the wiring color as close as possible to what's listed in all my Accuair documentation. Hope this can help OP and others out :thumbup:


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## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

Sorry Conor but i completely disagree with having a stinger relay in the position that you have it in. In this case it is 100% better to have the relay AFTER the V2 power connection.

His triple 444's plus solenoids will definitely draw over 80A (especially if the car is off) so he will blow through relays everytime his compressors go on.

I would recommend just using 3 x 40A relays as such, this way if a single compressor siezes (and ends up drawing 90A) then both his other compressors will still work. By using the 4th relay it limits the amount of current needed by the V2 ECU to pull in coils (stinger is far larger load and will kill your V2 ECU) and it also gives the option to add individual kill switches for each compressor. 

Also the Accuair and Airlift wiring is a bit different, your e-level wiring is spot on, however your V2 i think is a bit off.


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

MechEngg said:


> Sorry Conor but i completely disagree with having a stinger relay in the position that you have it in. In this case it is 100% better to have the relay AFTER the V2 power connection.
> 
> His triple 444's plus solenoids will definitely draw over 80A (especially if the car is off) so he will blow through relays everytime his compressors go on.
> 
> ...


Very interesting - would have never thought to reroute it behind the V2. Does V2 draw more power than eLevel? VIAIR states each 444c draws a max 19A (lets round to 20A). Is it safer to say to allocate a higher amperage incase they pull more than maximum? I am unfamiliar with V2 - I only have knowledge of helping a buddy with his V1 setup.

Mech, my diagram above, would you say the stinger relay works in the position that it's in?


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## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

connoisseurr said:


> Very interesting - would have never thought to reroute it behind the V2. Does V2 draw more power than eLevel? VIAIR states each 444c draws a max 19A (lets round to 20A). Is it safer to say to allocate a higher amperage incase they pull more than maximum? I am unfamiliar with V2 - I only have knowledge of helping a buddy with his V1 setup.
> 
> Mech, my diagram above, would you say the stinger relay works in the position that it's in?


Yes your setup will work fine with the singer in the position that it is in. The reason being is that you only have 2 compressors. The OP on the other hand has 3, so lets do the calcs...

Compressor amperage draw = 19A ea.
19*3 = 57A @ 13.8V
Adjust the amp draw for a car not started scenario (12V) and you get 65.5A draw. 
Take into account that he is using only 4ga wire from the battery to the trunk and you get a 7% voltage drop, further lowering the voltage to 11.2V in the trunk and increasing the amperage draw of the wire to over 70A. 
Adding a service factor of 15% (standard for any motor/pump/blower/compressor) and you get an initial amperage spike of 80.5A
One way to get past this is to add time delays so that the compressors kick on 1 at a time with a 5 second delay in between, then you will be tight but it might work. However if your compressors run for long enough your battery voltage will drop even more and will end up blowing your relay regardless.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Gentlemen I salute you. 

Thank you both for contributing to us thread. It all makes sense to me now! I guess my last question would be this. 

I purchased wire sockets to connect to the relays. However the wires coming off the socket are only 18ga. My concern is that is too small a gauge and am considering re-wiring them all to 8awg. Is at overkill for this particular application? Will this also prepare me for OB2s in the future?

I will be keeping the same ignition switch wire from V2 though.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

On further evaluation, from MechEngg's diagram the grey wire going back to ECU is supposed to be from my ignition wire and also splices to the V2 remote. It originally was IGN>split into two wires>one wire goes into relay and other goes up to my remote. Are you saying the pink wire that is connected to my ECU harness can be connected directly to IGN and bypass the relay? All I need to do is fuse it directly from ignition (and splice directly from the same line after the fuse to V2 controller?)


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

ornithology said:


> Gentlemen I salute you.
> 
> Thank you both for contributing to us thread. It all makes sense to me now! I guess my last question would be this.
> 
> ...


If one of those 18 gauge wires is being spliced into, I would definitely up the gauge. The one thing you want to be careful of is changing a single wire size mid-run (use a distribution block or something related to do this)


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

connoisseurr said:


> If one of those 18 gauge wires is being spliced into, I would definitely up the gauge. The one thing you want to be careful of is changing a single wire size mid-run (use a distribution block or something related to do this)


So you're saying it's ok to use the 18ga wire if I'm splicing ie. directly to a compressor?

But if I am splicing ie. for the IGN wire off the ECU, I should use a higher gauge? Maybe 10ga speaker wire?

Thanks.


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

ornithology said:


> So you're saying it's ok to use the 18ga wire if I'm splicing ie. directly to a compressor?
> 
> But if I am splicing ie. for the IGN wire off the ECU, I should use a higher gauge? Maybe 10ga speaker wire?
> 
> Thanks.


I would attempt to match the wire gauge of whatever you're connecting - that's the best way to handle it. 

Also, your statement of wire not fitting the relay terminal connections, use solder-able connections for a stronger hold and better conductivity.


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

MechEngg said:


> Yes your setup will work fine with the singer in the position that it is in. The reason being is that you only have 2 compressors. The OP on the other hand has 3, so lets do the calcs...
> 
> Compressor amperage draw = 19A ea.
> 19*3 = 57A @ 13.8V
> ...


I never did factor in the voltage drop.. I may reevaluate my setup... How would you suggest adding the time delay, Mech? I've never done such a thing with wire; only command line


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

connoisseurr said:


> I would attempt to match the wire gauge of whatever you're connecting - that's the best way to handle it.
> 
> Also, your statement of wire not fitting the relay terminal connections, use solder-able connections for a stronger hold and better conductivity.


Ok that makes sense. I'll just use the same gauge (8AWG) for my post PDB wiring. Possibly going to up my IGN wire to 10AWG instead too.

As for MechEngg's diagram, can you shed some light? I'm not good with my explanation so I drew a response.










Btw, you guys have made this thread kick-ass educational! Thank you!


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

ornithology said:


> Ok that makes sense. I'll just use the same gauge (8AWG) for my post PDB wiring. Possibly going to up my IGN wire to 10AWG instead too.
> 
> As for MechEngg's diagram, can you shed some light? I'm not good with my explanation so I drew a response.
> 
> ...



I'll try my best here - hopefully Mech can chime in. 

The IGN wire's purpose running to the V2 ECU is simply to tell the ECU to turn on when IGN is on and vice versa. If your controller is like my Accuair controller, it will have an IGN wire simply to tell the compressor relay (in your case relays) to turn on when the pressure sensor reads a sub-par value in your tank.

That relay ground spot doesn't seem right to me to be grounding to the controller. But as Mech stated, V2 wires differently than eLevel.

Hopefully he can chime in and correct me so I can be of help in the future. Once this all gets solved, I'll create a V2 diagram as I did for eLevel.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

connoisseurr said:


> I'll try my best here - hopefully Mech can chime in.
> 
> The IGN wire's purpose running to the V2 ECU is simply to tell the ECU to turn on when IGN is on and vice versa. If your controller is like my Accuair controller, it will have an IGN wire simply to tell the compressor relay (in your case relays) to turn on when the pressure sensor reads a sub-par value in your tank.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the quick reply. I get what you mean. I just want to add that for the ECU relay I swapped the numbers because pink is supposed to be ignition and grey ECU. So assume what you meant about the ground is the 86 not 85 for the compressor relays that were grounded?


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

ornithology said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I get what you mean. I just want to add that for the ECU relay I swapped the numbers because pink is supposed to be ignition and grey ECU. So assume what you meant about the ground is the 86 not 85 for the compressor relays that were grounded?


My Viair relays list 30 as power lead, 85 as ground, 86 as relay ignition and 87 as power out


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## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

First off i want to say that pin 85 and 86 are interchangeable on a relay of this type. Power going either way across it will pull in the pin and let power flow through the 30-87 path. Hopefully you guys know how relays work :thumbup:



ornithology said:


> Gentlemen I salute you.
> 
> Thank you both for contributing to us thread. It all makes sense to me now! I guess my last question would be this.
> 
> ...


The only gauge wire you need higher than 18/20ga is the distribution block to the 30 pin on the relay, and the 87 pin on the relay to the compressors. All other wiring can be 18 or 20ga because it is max 3A. For 19A you should be fine with 10ga wire from your upsized lines :thumbup:



ornithology said:


> On further evaluation, from MechEngg's diagram the grey wire going back to ECU is supposed to be from my ignition wire and also splices to the V2 remote. It originally was IGN>split into two wires>one wire goes into relay and other goes up to my remote. Are you saying the pink wire that is connected to my ECU harness can be connected directly to IGN and bypass the relay? All I need to do is fuse it directly from ignition (and splice directly from the same line after the fuse to V2 controller?)


Go from the wiring diagram on pg11 of the airlift manual: https://bagriders.com/modlab/tech/install_manuals/AirLift/AutoPilotV2.pdf

All you have to do is use the current relay output (ALC007) and split that into the 3 compressor relay triggers (85 pin, 86 grounded). That is all that changes with the wiring. A single ignition source that splits and goes to each device. That is why a good ignition source is required


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

MechEngg said:


> First off i want to say that pin 85 and 86 are interchangeable on a relay of this type. Power going either way across it will pull in the pin and let power flow through the 30-87 path. Hopefully you guys know how relays work :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perfect explanation. Thank you both Mechengg and connoisseurr 

I guess the power switch can go between the ignition source and the compressors.  AWESOME CAN'T WAIT FOR PARTS TO ARRIVE!


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## connoisseurr (Jan 18, 2008)

MechEngg said:


> First off i want to say that pin 85 and 86 are interchangeable on a relay of this type. Power going either way across it will pull in the pin and let power flow through the 30-87 path. Hopefully you guys know how relays work :thumbup:
> 
> Go from the wiring diagram on pg11 of the airlift manual: https://bagriders.com/modlab/tech/install_manuals/AirLift/AutoPilotV2.pdf
> 
> All you have to do is use the current relay output (ALC007) and split that into the 3 compressor relay triggers (85 pin, 86 grounded). That is all that changes with the wiring. A single ignition source that splits and goes to each device. That is why a good ignition source is required


I did NOT know about the interchangeable option of a relay - I really have only gone by the supplied relay diagram when wiring up electronics (haven't spent too much time into testing functionality). Thanks for the info, Mech. Gives me a good idea of what I'm really working with.


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

YES! Started putting things together and I'm so excited to do a test run. Will post updates and pics soon!


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## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

ornithology said:


> YES! Started putting things together and I'm so excited to do a test run. Will post updates and pics soon!


Make a build thread so we can follow. That way we can watch and you can ask questions/get feedback :thumbup::thumbup:


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

MechEngg said:


> Make a build thread so we can follow. That way we can watch and you can ask questions/get feedback :thumbup::thumbup:


Right here!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ogy-s-quot-Form-over-Function-quot-2004.5-GLI

Yeah I'm super excited, going to get working on it now that I have about a couple days off from studying. It would be awesome if this ends up helping someone else too. Will post pics tonight.


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