# Not another vr Turbo build



## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!!*

Yes, they are a dime a dozen now but, I want to document this and get feedback. 
-Anyway just pulling the motor to do the timing chains, cleaning pistons and putting in ARP rod bolts
This is the set up I pieced it together over the past few years:
•ATP intercooler kit for vr6 (400hp rated)
•ATP downpipe with v-bands/ 3in exaust all the way out
•ATP manifold painted with flameproof ceramic coating. 
( I didn't believe it so I took a torch to it to test it. It worked)
•C2 42lb setup with 8.5:1 headspacer/ walbro etc.
•Msd coils
•Tial 38mm wastegate (11lb spring)
•Brand new ITS TO4E turbo with o wheel
•P&P Trac racing head with 3 angle valve job done by Bill Schimmel
•Greddy BOV( which has to be rerouted with this software)
• Transmission rebuilt with Pelequin and spec clutch (stg 2/350 rated)
All in all I am looking to get around 400 HP from this setup once I start running at max boost (17psi).








































dirty pistons








Cleaned with 2+2 gum cutter, also took a board sander to the top with a 320 grit to remove excess caking.
















crank








not a great pic but rod bearing showed wear








remove crank








put new mains and rod bearings in








Unfortunately I lost the pics of me putting in the rod bolts/mains/head studs/gaskets/
















oil feed set up








This is TDC and for the block, 1 and 6 completely flush to the block








TDC on the crank pullley








timing on cams








this is what they looked like after two full revolutions(right on the money)








tightening cams down

















here's the full pump set up








I have a question which wire is the power to the pump the red with yellow stripe or the orange/brown???








Here is where I downloaded the instructions to install the pump:
http://www.usrallyteam.com/pumps.html
This explains the 30A relay:








This is also a good diagram I found online:








here is the tray I welded for the battery relocation








Downpipe, still have some welding to do obviously








Haven't posted anything for a while but I have run into some problems. Turbo is overlapping TB. So my two options are new turbo. Or is to run a short runner intake. I am gonna opt for the new turbo I think. It is ashame because This one has never been used. I need suggestions /solutions to this dilema.
time for a new turbo!!
















_Modified by DubbleTrubble at 10:38 PM 11-25-2007_

_Modified by DubbleTrubble at 10:57 PM 11-25-2007_


_Modified by DubbleTrubble at 11:14 PM 11-30-2007_


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## grec745 (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*

ok ok.... looking good man.

u sure your only doing the chain????


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## PTown Love (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*

Nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## joevwfox (Feb 20, 2007)

Do stock VR bottom ends handle 17 psi? That sounds like alot...............(I have no idea though) 
*sorry I missed the new rods.







good as gold


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## abetterkyle (Oct 30, 2005)

mine holds just great at 17psi


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## PTown Love (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: (abetterkyle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abetterkyle* »_mine holds just great at 17psi

Dyno numbers?


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## abetterkyle (Oct 30, 2005)

*Re: (PTown Love)*

i just recently purchased the car from a fellow dubber in Arkasas here is the set up:
2.8L VR6 
Garrett T04E 60-1 .70/.69 w/ custom water cooled center housing 
C2 Motorsport's Stg II software w/ 440cc 42# Bosch injectors & 4" billet MAF housing 
C2 Motorsport's Quickflow aluminum short runner intake manifold 
Treadstone 33x19.5x3.5" intercooler 
Custom 2.5" aluminum intercooler piping< 
Devil's Own Water/methanol Injection w/ 1 gallon reservoir< 
EIP tuning 9.0:1 headgasket 
ARP Head studs and rod bolts 
ATP 3" downpipe and full custom 3" exhaust w/out cat 
255lph Secondary fuel pump 
Billet Aluminum Coolant transfer pipe< 
MSD 8.5mm plug wires w/ custom coilpacks 
Tial 38mm wastegate w/ 11psi spring 
Turbosmart Sleeper Series 32mm diverter valve 
VF Engineering Tranny mount and uprated dogbone bushings 
and at 16 psi w/o the W/M Injection it put down
376whp/370tq @ 16ps
but that was with possible boost leaks.
now it should be at 400+ whp/tq


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## joevwfox (Feb 20, 2007)

Im going to go ahead an say that is perty sick.


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (joevwfox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joevwfox* »_Do stock VR bottom ends handle 17 psi? That sounds like alot...............(I have no idea though) 
*sorry I missed the new rods.







good as gold

yeah with 8.5:1 it will handle 20 no prob, 
i have 9.0:1 and je pistons and it will handle it all day, 
and i put down 371, 383 on 15 lbs, and it was not running very good


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*

it was not running good??


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## TheCanadianGolf (Apr 14, 2006)

here is the video of the dabeetereaters car on the dyno


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (TheCanadianGolf)*

Ok so I am taking off the crankshaft and putting in new bearings . How do I take off the bolt that bolts in the crank pulley??? I need to counterhold on the otherside but my attempts have been unsucessfull... please help!!!


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

lol have fun with that , there is a special tool that holds it but its hard as hell to find it and its like 150 bucks, the best thing i came up with was a pry bar on one side of the counterweight, and a 2x4 on the other and a 3 ft breaker bar with a pipe on the end, and sombody to hold the pry bar, one person to hold the motor, and one person standing on the pipe, lol they are a pain in the assss


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*

sounds like fun


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

So when I get this back together how do I tell where Top dead is? There is no mark on my crank pulley. And is it alright to have a light crank pulley or should I put the stock back on?


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## radoboy (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubbleTrubble* »_So when I get this back together how do I tell where Top dead is? There is no mark on my crank pulley. And is it alright to have a light crank pulley or should I put the stock back on?

The pressure plate has 2 'tabs' on it. One has the edges slightly ground down to form a point. With the tranny installed, rotate the engine until the timing mark pointer on the 02A bellhousing lines up with the 'pointed' tab on the pressure plate. You can also remove the #1 spark plug, drop the oil dipstick down the hole, and rotate the engine until the dipstick is at its highest point (TDC for cyl #1). If the flywheel and lower timing cover were still off, you could line the pointed tooth on the timing chain drive gear (built into the crank) up with the #7 main cap split.


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (radoboy)*

Ahhh







there were no lower thrust bearings on main cap no. The ones on the cap with the tabs were there, but not the ones that go beneath. Is this normal?? I checked the crank to see if they were stuck on there but, they weren't.


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (radoboy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *radoboy* »_
The pressure plate has 2 'tabs' on it. One has the edges slightly ground down to form a point. With the tranny installed, rotate the engine until the timing mark pointer on the 02A bellhousing lines up with the 'pointed' tab on the pressure plate. You can also remove the #1 spark plug, drop the oil dipstick down the hole, and rotate the engine until the dipstick is at its highest point (TDC for cyl #1). If the flywheel and lower timing cover were still off, you could line the pointed tooth on the timing chain drive gear (built into the crank) up with the #7 main cap split.

Thanks


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

so can I reuse the crank pulley bolt??
and can I use a light weight crank pulley with a turbo application??

_Modified by DubbleTrubble at 1:10 PM 9-12-2007_


_Modified by DubbleTrubble at 2:54 PM 9-12-2007_


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## grec745 (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

looking good tom.. cant wiat to see this thing all back together..


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (grec745)*

IS this mis allignment normal??? The bearings are flush, but it seems like the holes are a lil off.


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

alright, so with the head off, on the block the cylinder number one should have the piston at the very top of it for it to be at TDC? As far as the head goes I have the cam alignment tool. but where should the lobes be at for the long cam and the short cam????


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

the rest is beyond me ... but the cams will only line up in the tool one way... those slots on the end are off set ... the "thicker" portion of the cam will be on the bottom... or I should say the "bigger half" will be on the bottom... that will have the head timed right ... 
you're on your own for getting the pistons put right ... but I do think #1 TDC is correct... TRIPLE check me before proceeding... I take that back ... don't believe me... find out from someone else... then post here if it's right... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (ExtremeVR6)*

Can someone answer my fuel pump question above?


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## violation98 (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

get a test light and a friend...
have him turn the key to the on position... then off and on for each wire you test. test each wire until you see power on for 3 seconds then out. thats your signal wire your fuel pump gets 3 seconds of power to feed the injectors for startup on EFI


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (violation98)*

the entire motor is out I dunno if it will stilll send with so many broken circuits. Is it the brown wire or the red wire? Someone has done this on a 98 vr6 before??


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## Terrible One (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

Red/yellow is the 12v wire to the pump


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (Terrible One)*

Thanks !


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3014359 just to make you feel even better about the fuel pump question.
Sorry for not getting back to you, extremely busy and I actually forgot you called.








Tip: I never answer the phone on football Sunday (especially during an Eagles game) or during a PSU Saturday game.








Besides that, if theres' anything you need to see this weekend give me a call....Eagles play at 4pm.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3014359 just to make you feel even better about the fuel pump question.
Sorry for not getting back to you, extremely busy and I actually forgot you called.








Tip: I never answer the phone on football Sunday (especially during an Eagles game) or during a PSU Saturday game.








Besides that, if theres' anything you need to see this weekend give me a call....Eagles play at 4pm.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I should be good from here on out. Might have to check out your ic setup. But thanks. I am gonna post a diagram of the wiring setup as well.


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

Bolted the tranny on last night and the threads stripped in the bell housing. Anybody know what amer/stand size is one up from that bolt size, so I can retap????


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

Ouch.


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

helicoil to the rescue


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (DubbleTrubble)*

re tapped and drilled tranny. Now german autoparts sent me the wrong tensioner and tensioner guide.. And does anyone know if you are supposed to spray this head gasket with permatex before installation? My spacer didn't come with those directions. Just the torque down sequence.


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## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubbleTrubble* »_
oil feed set up










Not sure if it makes a difference but most people use the right side (blue sensor) hole for their oil feed. Just pointing out a possible gotcha.
Otherwise, looks like you're doing it right! Are you using upgraded hardware (ARP/Raceware) anywhere? Might as well while you're in there. 
-m


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (maxslug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxslug* »_
Not sure if it makes a difference but most people use the right side (blue sensor) hole for their oil feed. Just pointing out a possible gotcha.
Otherwise, looks like you're doing it right! Are you using upgraded hardware (ARP/Raceware) anywhere? Might as well while you're in there. 
-m









Yeah Arp on everything except the main studs. Re used the stock one at 60ft-lbs. Schimmel told me I could reuse them at that torque rating. I dunno if it makes a difference on the oil filter housing I would like to get some more feedback. I have to take the head off again cuz I didn't spray the gasket with permatex.


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*

schimmel has the best prices on oem!


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (maxslug)*

Alright so I posted some new pics of the battery tray mount and the turbo overlapping the T.B.
Is this a common problem with tangential housings on turbos??? and what is the difference between the two?


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*

i would get a schimmel short runner but if you insist on keeping the stock intake manifold i will have a flanged elbo made to relocate the turbo down some.


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (xpalendocious)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xpalendocious* »_i would get a schimmel short runner but if you insist on keeping the stock intake manifold i will have a flanged elbo made to relocate the turbo down some.

I don't have the cash to spend on one of those. and there is not a ton of room to have a flanged elbow made. I am probably just gonna make my own short runner. 


_Modified by DubbleTrubble at 11:12 PM 11-25-2007_


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## 92-8valver (Oct 9, 2003)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*










just clock the turbo and you'll have space more than likely


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (92-8valver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92-8valver* »_









just clock the turbo and you'll have space more than likely 

no dice. tried it


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## kyle_b (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*

if you dont mind building another downpipe, flip the turbo so compressor housing ends up on the drivers side. just a thought.


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (kyle_b)*

yeah that seems to be option 3. and probably the cheapest


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*

option 4
Get a 90* alu bend and cut the tb flange and move it and reweld.
Ive seen it a bunch of times on OEM intakes to clear the compressor housing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
20$ adjustment


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! ([email protected])*

Alright so let's review the options. Thanks for the suggestions 
1.) Get a different turbo that sits lower and doesn't cause this problem. Can hopefully get an even trade, i.e. not spend anything.http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
• Seems the most logical and least time consuming
2.) Buy a short runner spend a lot of money that I don't have.http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
• Just don't have the money for one of these. 
3.) Make a short runner, i.e. spend a lot less money that I don't have.http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
• Makes sense but, is gonna cost money to do it right (200$)
4.) Make some kind of flange and tube to offset the TB.http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
• Might as well make a shortrunner and increase performance
while I will be welding aluminum
5.) Flip the turbo and modify the down pipe and all my ic piping. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
• might as well make a shortrunner and increase performance
6.) Option 6 is get a new on center turbine housing..... On center DUHHHH!








That's it I will go with that one and make a shortrunner while I am driving this badboy. 
I thought it was the whole construction of the turbo that made it tangential. 
Not just the housing, shows you how much I know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by DubbleTrubble at 11:45 PM 11-26-2007_










_Modified by DubbleTrubble at 11:47 PM 11-26-2007_


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## brew city (Aug 3, 2007)

short runner!!!!!!


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## u01rwr (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: (brew city)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brew city* »_short runner!!!!!!

yeah what he said


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*

AShort runner like C2 and schimmel will not give any gain.
They are way to short and will give you less hp propablu until 6000rpm.
Just look at the CVP
try to stick with OEM intake if you dont plan to rev past 7000rpm


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: NOT ANOTHER VR6 TURBO!!!!! (DubbleTrubble)*

this has been one hell of a stall! I am trying to get a new turbo but, don't have the cash.


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