# Getting an E85 Flex Fuel Tune from United Motorsports....



## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

I'm sitting at Starbucks right now while my car is being tuned with Stage 1 flex fuel (E85) software. Blue Water Performance in Colorado is flashing the car and providing a custom tune with United Motorsport software. Cool part about the software is that it's able to auto select which program mapping simply based upon which fuel I have in the tank...ie 91 octane or E85. 

I know a number of guys running E85 tunes out here but they're all on turbo motors with GIAC software. Power output should be the standard 12whp tune when I run 91 octane, and 15-25% above stock when running E85. This is what I've been told to expect, and I'm an early adopter for the Rabbit software...its mainly been used on R32's to date until they fully roll out the software for the 2.5L engine. It will supposedly be the first of its kind for our engine though!

I'm going to need a couple weeks for initial testing to run a tank of each gas before being able to provide a full review. I'm really psyched to see how things go!

here's a link to Blue Water's site for a description of the tune... Clicky Click

:thumbup:


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## a7xogg (Nov 25, 2008)

im up for a review.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2009)

I'm in for a review as well. 
Now correct me if I'm wrong but based upon what their website says, we will be running up to 230 whp simply with a tank of E85 and this kit? All for the price of a fully loaded apr tune? Now I see it says up to 230 whp, but it also says gains from 15-25% over stock. What additional modifications would you need to achieve the 230 whp figure? Because thats well above the 15-25% figure.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

Realize this is test software, (on the 2.5L rabbit), right now.

Some work is left to do:
Finalize E85 fuel tuning.
Activate self swicthing of ignition maps
(current ignition map is 91/93 octane gas map)

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I'm in for a review as well.
> Now correct me if I'm wrong but based upon what their website says, we will be running up to 230 whp simply with a tank of E85 and this kit? All for the price of a fully loaded apr tune? Now I see it says up to 230 whp, but it also says gains from 15-25% over stock. What additional modifications would you need to achieve the 230 whp figure? Because thats well above the 15-25% figure.


Yes, the tune supports up to 230whp with additional supporting mods. Primarily a CAI, exhaust, and SRI Manifold. The short runner is supposed to show significant gains, especially regarding high rpm torque. I've currently only got an air intake on my car aside from the tune. 

I only have around 20 miles on the car since leaving the shop but there's a big difference so far. Torque is much stronger in first and second gears, but I haven't really been able to play around in 3-5th just yet. Was told my ecu will adapt within about 40 miles to reach its potential, and it's consistently been getting stronger as I approach that number. Also note that I'm only running 87 octane gas right now, as that is what I had in the tank when I got to the shop. So going up to 91 octane will hopefully add even more power, and consequently going to E85 will add even more. Gabe over at Blue Water ran logs on standard gas, and I'll be headed back to the shop this weekend after I put in a full tank of E85 to run logs on this map to complete the tune. I'm already excited with the initial gains I've seen on mid-grade gas, the car feels great.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

I have about 100 miles on the tune so far and the difference is night and day. Power has increased, and torque is significantly stronger. Feels like the car has gained the 12whp while still running on only 87 octane. Really looking forward to seeing the gains from 91 and e85. Plan is to run the tank empty and fill up entirely on e85 to finish the tune this weekend. 

Originally I had a hard time deciding whether to go with a standard Stage 1 tune like all other companies out there offer (ie. APR, C2, Unitronic, etc), or with the e85 conversion for more power and $$$. Like I said above, the difference is night and day with just the standard tune thus far, but realistically I just want more power now that I'm able to feel such a major difference in overall driveability. I wouldn't be satisfied with the standard Stage 1 tune...I can't wait to feel the difference with ethanol! 

This tune may very well be the best bang for your buck on the 2.5L engine. I've driven in a couple other Stage 1 tuned Rabbits and my car already feels more powerful even though I still haven't seen the full gain yet.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Sounds promising.

So what do I need to get this set up? How about upgrading my fuel injectors? And what about just throwing some e85 in my tank now? 

I also plan on going turbo on my rabbit can this tune be altered to accept the forced induction?

Can't wait to hear more


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

this setup can be purchased in packages for Stage 1, 2, 3, etc. For the stage 1 package on a stock motor it will include 550cc injectors and the tune. Putting e85 into your engine while stock without the tune isn't going to do anything except decrease performance and burn fuel faster. I don't know why you'd consider doing this?

The owner of United Motorsports (Jeff) is the one who created C2's 2.5L turbo software, so I'm almost positive United will be offering a new version, or at least an updated version of C2's software. From Blue Water's website via the link in my first post you can see that yes this software will support forced injection.

Jeff is the one who posted above stating that this is still test software. Send him a PM and he'll be able to answer any questions.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

thanks for the reply! i won't be running e85 in the car as is I know better than that. however this does seem promising. what kind of information can you send my regarding running e85 regularly? is it really caustic to the rubber lines etc? 

i know everyone has their opinions on e85 but i think it's quite promising. and being able to run it with some F/I i think it could really help. however in your opinion would just running a water meth setup be more reliable? i'm not too concerned about power because there will always be faster rides out there. but e85 tuned could really help with detonation (correct?) and water meth does too! so what is the best route? thanks for the help!


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

wow. that is interesting. thanks for the info. I want to look into it


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

TylerO28 said:


> thanks for the reply! i won't be running e85 in the car as is I know better than that. however this does seem promising. what kind of information can you send my regarding running e85 regularly? is it really caustic to the rubber lines etc?
> 
> i know everyone has their opinions on e85 but i think it's quite promising. and being able to run it with some F/I i think it could really help. however in your opinion would just running a water meth setup be more reliable? i'm not too concerned about power because there will always be faster rides out there. but e85 tuned could really help with detonation (correct?) and water meth does too! so what is the best route? thanks for the help!


running e85 in your car is perfectly fine. since around 2002/2003 all manufacturers have been required to make all fuel systems compatible with ethanol. i'm sure there's going to be those that argue this point, but before i went with this tune i called up my local shop, and the owner has been running ethanol in his 2003 Passat for over five years without issue. another buddy of mine out here has been running ethanol in his B6 Audi A4 for over four years without issue, and the B6 has run e85 stock, K04, and now with a BT. this shop has done many ethanol conversions primarily utilizing GIAC, and after a long conversation about it I'm fully confident there won't be an issue with corrosion or anything along these lines. For reference this is the only local shop I have taken my past four VW/Audi's to, and I've become friends with the owner. Only shop I have 100% trust in. PM me if you'd like contact info.

:thumbup:

i've never personally run a meth setup before, so i can't provide any insight into this comparison.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

what about fuel efficiency? if u drive modestly on e85 will u get more range between fill ups? other than e85 being cheaper than 93 which i run, what r the benefits to converting to this tune over my unitronic stage 2+?


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> what about fuel efficiency? if u drive modestly on e85 will u get more range between fill ups? other than e85 being cheaper than 93 which i run, what r the benefits to converting to this tune over my unitronic stage 2+?


Look above for a bit more info on fuel efficiency with e85. In a nutshell it will go down about 2-3 mpg's, but at around $1 cheaper per gallon things will about even out. But when I've run 91 octane (standard in Colorado instead of 93), my mileage increased by about 3 mpg's, it was significantly noticeable. On another note I'm not going to sit there and tout the benefits of e85 from a foreign oil standpoint, but realistically money that goes toward ethanol isn't going to go overseas which is nice to know. 

i'm assuming if you're Uni Stage 2+ you've got a CAI, exhaust, maybe a short ram intake as well? with this setup as stated above you'll be looking at around 190whp. converting to ethanol with your setup should get you more power than the 93 tune you currently have, but I can't speak to it as well as Gabe. if you want to take a look at dyno's send an email over to Gabe at Blue Water Performance. he will be able to answer detailed questions on power gains based upon your current setup. :beer:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

no i understand the performance benefiets on our end... but my mom has a flex fuel chevy suv and she gets damn near the same fuel efficiency as my rabbit. i guess i will have to look into this. 93 out here is 3.85 a gallon and e85 is just about 1.00$ cheaper, and if all i lose is 2-3 mpg having fun with the car, then driving modestly on road trips will yeild gains in efficiency in theory.


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## PlatinumMKV (Sep 12, 2010)

Very interested in this tune. If you need a tester in the Pittsburgh area let me know. I'm running a neuspeed intake, evolution tuning headers, usp testpipe, and awe exhaust. Please keep us posted on any updates!


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

i'll have another update a week from now when i drop my car off at blue water to finish up the tune. i didn't take the time to reroute my MAF wiring harness when i put the intake onto the car, and thus i over extended the harness and pulled a couple wires. this corrupted the tuning last week and i need to take it back in again. :banghead:


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

Lampy, can you verify with that technician you became friends with that E85 would not affect the Fuel pump. I read somewhere that it has been noted that E85 fuel corroded fuel pumps; thus, it needed a fuel pump in about 4 years. But then again, the website i was reading it from failed to mention the mileage when the fuel pump did take a dive.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

eatrach said:


> Lampy, can you verify with that technician you became friends with that E85 would not affect the Fuel pump. I read somewhere that it has been noted that E85 fuel corroded fuel pumps; thus, it needed a fuel pump in about 4 years. But then again, the website i was reading it from failed to mention the mileage when the fuel pump did take a dive.


they failed to mention miles because it is unkown.. i just want to know the benefits of going this route over just doing a watermeth kit... im thinking of going straight to stage 5. getting the two o44's in the antisurge tank is exactly what i personally need.lol also as far as i could conclude the fuel pump would be fine? and that injectors needed to be changed out for flow.. i could be wrong tho, this whole e85 is facinating to me. cant wait to give it a shot:beer:


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> they failed to mention miles because it is unkown.. i just want to know the benefits of going this route over just doing a watermeth kit... im thinking of going straight to stage 5. getting the two o44's in the antisurge tank is exactly what i personally need.lol also as far as i could conclude the fuel pump would be fine? and that injectors needed to be changed out for flow.. i could be wrong tho, this whole e85 is facinating to me. cant wait to give it a shot:beer:


 Stage 5 of E85? I spoke to Gabe from United Motorsports, he mentioned that stage 2 and upward are for turbocharged vehicles. I can see the benefit of running E85 on turbo cars. VRROOM VROOM


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

eatrach said:


> Stage 5 of E85? I spoke to Gabe from United Motorsports, he mentioned that stage 2 and upward are for turbocharged vehicles. I can see the benefit of running E85 on turbo cars. VRROOM VROOM


 exactly


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

eatrach said:


> Lampy, can you verify with that technician you became friends with that E85 would not affect the Fuel pump. I read somewhere that it has been noted that E85 fuel corroded fuel pumps; thus, it needed a fuel pump in about 4 years. But then again, the website i was reading it from failed to mention the mileage when the fuel pump did take a dive.


 i'll shoot an email over to the shop to inquire about fuel pump issues. even if the car ends up needing a new fuel pump after four years, the part itself is only around $165 and installation is really simple. on another note my previous car, an '04 Audi A4 1.8T had a bad fuel pump at 56K miles for no apparent reason, and it wasn't attributable to a bad fuel filter. my Rabbit has 60K on the clock now with no issues whatsoever, so at 80K miles or more I wouldn't mind having to swap out the pump. i'll let you know what the shop says though.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

:thumbup: Thanks Lampy. I mean cars have a mind of their own, and that includes any part. First night of owning my Mkv jetta the fan switch decided to stop working-figures. 
BUt, like you said, some will last 'til 80k, 90k, 50k, 120k. I replaced the fuel pump on my old E36 M3, at 120k.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

sorry, so darn busy this week i haven't had a chance to reach out to my shop for fuel pump/e85 details. they're closed on weekends, but i will get in touch early next week. 

finally got my MAF plug wiring all sorted out tonight. i'm headed over to Blue Water first thing tom. morning to drop off my car so they can finish the tune. sweet! :laugh:


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

:thumbup: Good stuff Lampy. I spoke to Gabe 2 weeks ago; seems like a nice guy. Keep us informed on the tuning. 
Oh, can you ask Gabe this question. If I decide to purchase Stage 1 C2 turbo kit or stage 2, will the software work with the turbo kit, or do I need a different software? I know he has 6 or 7 different stages of software on his website.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

finally got the car over to blue water on saturday to finish up the tune. there's still one more little update so i'll head over for another quick flash next weekend. right now the ecu will fully switch over between 91 & e85. the power band is extremely smooth, i'm really impressed. torque in 1st-3rd rocks, it's a night and day difference from stock. in 4th-5th gears power is noticeably stronger, but torque increases aren't as prominent as in 1st-2nd. passing is quite a bit easier on the highway. driving around town is seriously fun, as 1st-2nd hauls. on a daily basis i'm mainly city, which is perfect. 

United Motorsports definitely has my recommendation. i've driven in a few other Stage 1 tuned Rabbits and when i'm running e85 i feel significantly faster. this tune is solid, props to Jeff (UM) for developing the only software to automatically switch maps & to Gabe (BW Performance) for the flash and testing! :laugh: :thumbup:


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## GTIdriver33 (Oct 12, 2007)

Hey search google for UM flash group buys and you can find awesome deals! 
Just thought I would let people know!!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

so its been about a month. hows it so far? im talking with jeff right now working out me possibly getting this done.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

Kevin take a look at my post a few up for my review after everything has been completed. i'm really impressed, feels like a completely different car and the power/torque delivery is perfect. i probably gained somewhere around 15-20whp with just a CAI and the flex fuel tune....it's great!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> Kevin take a look at my post a few up for my review after everything has been completed. i'm really impressed, feels like a completely different car and the power/torque delivery is perfect. i probably gained somewhere around 15-20whp with just a CAI and the flex fuel tune....it's great!


 ya i read it. well thats good to know. i should be getting it real soon:laugh:, i have headers downpipe, highflow cat, catback, bsh intake, and soon motor mounts, and sri. i know it will be a huge improvement over my current tune, so cant wait :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

ok so im rethinking this whole e85 tune. Lampy what is the current price of e85 where u are? Two days ago it was 2.93 now just went to the gas station and e85 was 3.55 a gallon..... it is only 23 cents cheaper than regular grade gas, and 44 cents cheaper a gallon than 93, so im having a hard time justifying the flash right now. but when i looked online it said the local price avrg was 3.07 a gallon...... so maybe it was just that place.

no doubt the performance gains are there with the fuel, i just hope it doesnt stay at this price or it is not cost efficient, and not worth the gains.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

The power gains on an N/A engine will be comparable to what you will see on 104 octane race gasoline.

The advantage of the flex tune:
Software contains BOTH tunes: 93 octane gas and E85.
Auto switching: just filler up, or mix the fuel.
E85 is less expensive than race gas and more available.

Possible scenario: drive full time on 93 octane gas. A few times per year you take the car racing.
Use E85 when you go racing or ~whenever you want to rip around.

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Jefnes3 said:


> The power gains on an N/A engine will be comparable to what you will see on 104 octane race gasoline.
> 
> The advantage of the flex tune:
> Software contains BOTH tunes: 93 octane gas and E85.
> ...


That is a reasonable scenario. If I go to wookie in the woods would you be able to flash it then? Also e85 dropped 40 cents today already? Seems like this fuel is going to flux around alot.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i have a question for jeff:

i read this on the miv thread :





Jefnes3 said:


> Just some basic info relating directly from using E85 on the N/A R32 motor...
> (all this talk of ignition adavance assumes AFR is already correct)
> 
> 93 octane gas on the R32 is knock limited, so best power is ignition advance to the knock limit.
> ...





and i was just wondering, how is the 2.5?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I told my mother about the price of e85 the other day. She said the gas station must have been low on supply, that she filled up yesturday, and it was only 2.89 where she fills up. im gonna do it anywayz because its still cheaper than plus or premium gas as well as cheaper than crap gas.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Sounds good :thumbup: Let me know if I can help with any questions that people might have. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Sounds good :thumbup: Let me know if I can help with any questions that people might have. :thumbup:


so i buy the kit from you, then you send it to the closest um tuner which would be brian the local um dealer, and then he flashes the car? this is what im lost on.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> so i buy the kit from you, then you send it to the closest um tuner which would be brian the local um dealer, and then he flashes the car? this is what im lost on.


i am wondering about that too, Gabe. I am located in SoCal; I need my car on a daily basis for work. Can you find out if you can send the flash to a local dealer in SoCal and I'll drive there for the flash. LET ME KNOW


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> so i buy the kit from you, then you send it to the closest um tuner which would be brian the local um dealer, and then he flashes the car? this is what im lost on.


If you buy the kit from me then you need to send the ecu to me or to Jeff at UM. Or you could purchase the kit from me and then your local UM dealer could flash the ecu for a small fee, or you could have your local UM dealer call me to setup an account and have him purchase the kit straight from me. 



eatrach said:


> i am wondering about that too, Gabe. I am located in SoCal; I need my car on a daily basis for work. Can you find out if you can send the flash to a local dealer in SoCal and I'll drive there for the flash. LET ME KNOW


Well I am working on having additional ECUs that way I could lend them out so people that are in your situations would not have any down time.


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## vwgolfracer26 (Nov 3, 2003)

E85 is comparable to vp's best c16 fuel. Except it only cost $3.00/gallon
Look up E85 it is an highly oxygenated fuel unlike gasoline which helps support combustion and you can add a lot more timing and boost than on 93 octane without knock or detonation.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

So op hows this working out for you?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Yeah Id like to know as well since gas will just keep going up? If I can get this every now and then and save some cash while getting better performance, thats win win for me. Id really like to see a dyno comparison of this tho, 93 oct vs methanol.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Well its about a 20% increase. Im waiting for the word on the intake manifold/e85 combo to be released. e85 is up to 3.78/gallon here. not much cheaper than 93 anymore(4.19)  And once again my mom just said its cheaper by her 3.49/gallon :screwy: Must just be sheetz :sly:. Or you can use your fuel perks at giant eagle, they have it here... 

Ive been thinking, and well its funny that e85 is amped up to be good for the atmosphere, but it take fossil fuel to make it... And it takes fossil fuel to make gasoline, and now even more fossil fuel to produce another source of fuel, so in reality e85 is hurting the ozone just as much as gasoline. I dont care tho, just a weird analization...

Bluewater said they are working on attaining ecu's to lend out so there is no down time, I may go ahead and do that as im over waiting to hear back from a particular person.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

well it is 3.71 down here in SoCal. There is a chevron gas station that carries it, and it is like a mile and half away from here 
Gabe, please work on getting me an ECU. I need this badly man! My self-gift to me for passing the State nursing exam board. 
BTW, would you do a combo price for the software tune and the TurnerMoto's intake Manifold?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

eatrach said:


> well it is 3.71 down here in SoCal. There is a chevron gas station that carries it, and it is like a mile and half away from here
> Gabe, please work on getting me an ECU. I need this badly man! My self-gift to me for passing the State nursing exam board.
> BTW, would you do a combo price for the software tune and the *TurnerMoto's intake Manifold*?


You have a bmw? Or they make one for our car?


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> You have a bmw? Or they make one for our car?


oh sorry. doohh. i am mixing things up.. :laugh: I used to have 3 BMWs': E36 325is, E36 M3, and E46 330i ZHp
I mean United motorsport


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> So op hows this working out for you?


all is fine with the car, but i've got a CEL right now with a rich code (P0172) or something along those lines. i spoke with Jeff about it and considering the code popped up when i changed over from e85 to 91/93 octane, we figured it was because of the fuel change. i cleared the code twice and it popped back up with both ethanol and 93. i'm waiting for Jeff to update the software and help me out with this. I recently relocated to Boston (from Denver), and I haven't been able to find out where a shop is to take the car out here. I can't take it to a normal shop, as they won't have any knowledge of the software I'm running.

so far the only info I have is "seems the rabbit ecu isnt allowing fuel trims to move as far as the other ME7 ecus". (from Jeff)

i'll post up again when i know more. car is driving fine though, and fuel consumption is normal as well. it's fast! :laugh:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> all is fine with the car, *but i've got a CEL right now with a rich *code (P0172) or something along those lines. i spoke with Jeff about it and considering the code *popped up when i changed over from e85 to 91/93 octane*, we figured it was because of the fuel change. i cleared the code twice and it popped back up with both ethanol and 93. i'm waiting for Jeff to update the software and help me out with this. I recently relocated to Boston (from Denver), and I haven't been able to find out where a shop is to take the car out here. I can't take it to a normal shop, as they won't have any knowledge of the software I'm running.
> 
> so far the only info I have is *"seems the rabbit ecu isnt allowing fuel trims to move as far as the other ME7 ecus". (from Jeff)*i'll post up again when i know more. car is driving fine though, and fuel consumption is normal as well. it's fast! :laugh:


Glad I decided/had to wait, this is what I wanted to wait and see. Well so what he was saying is the rabbit ecu's cant handle the higher octane? I dont understand what "fuel trims" in this case means? I guess let us know. If all gets straightened out I will go through with it if not ill move on. I dont want a cel on for any reason


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

Ok so I finally blew a coil pack this evening on the way home from work. It was a pain in the rear though, as I was stuck in heavy stop and go traffic...ouch! I'm just going to replace all five packs considering the bunny has 65K miles on the clock now. 

Should I go for the most recent "E" version? Or is there another OEM pack that works a bit better with the added power? 

:beer:


ps. I still don't have an answer from Jeff or Gabe (BlueWater) on resolution for the rich code and the last software update. Need to find out where the nearest UM shop is located in the New England area, Jeff hasn't answered this question either. :facepalm:


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

Get them replaced under extended coil pack warranty/recall campaign? 

Sry to hear the e85 tune isn't going perfect but I'm sure they'll take care of you. The tune has little to do with the ****e vw coil packs that have been breaking for about a decade now.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

i thought '08's coilpacks has been updated.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

I thought the coilpack recall was only on the 2.0T's. Headed to the dealer to pick up a new set for $105, not too bad. I expected them to go sooner actually, so its not a big deal. Jeff is getting me in touch with a UM shop in boston, so good to go with this. I need to make sure the rich code isnt coming from elsewhere on the car. Until this is done i have no idea if its the software or not. Either way i was one of the test cars though, and i knew it wasnt fully polished when i received the tune. I'll keep y'all updated as soon as i know more.
:thumbup:


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

LampyB said:


> I thought the coilpack recall was only on the 2.0T's. Headed to the dealer to pick up a new set for $105, not too bad. I expected them to go sooner actually, so its not a big deal. Jeff is getting me in touch with a UM shop in boston, so good to go with this. I need to make sure the rich code isnt coming from elsewhere on the car. Until this is done i have no idea if its the software or not. Either way i was one of the test cars though, and i knew it wasnt fully polished when i received the tune. I'll keep y'all updated as soon as i know more.
> :thumbup:


get the coil packs in first, clear the code, and drive it. Maybe that can solve the issue with the CEL. LEt us know


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

eatrach said:


> get the coil packs in first, clear the code, and drive it. Maybe that can solve the issue with the CEL. LEt us know


Yes let us know :thumbup: Im not about to drop 600 bucks to run rich lol opcorn:


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

LampyB said:


> I thought the coilpack recall was only on the 2.0T's. Headed to the dealer to pick up a new set for $105, not too bad. I expected them to go sooner actually, so its not a big deal. Jeff is getting me in touch with a UM shop in boston, so good to go with this. I need to make sure the rich code isnt coming from elsewhere on the car. Until this is done i have no idea if its the software or not. Either way i was one of the test cars though, and i knew it wasnt fully polished when i received the tune. I'll keep y'all updated as soon as i know more.
> :thumbup:


No. The ignition coil recall affects basically every motor VW makes. This massive failure by VW to fix this issue over the past 10 years is the reason institutions such as consumer reports rate VW as a very unreliable vehicle.

Anyway, as far as the recall goes. It affects all 2.5 motors with 2.5L engine codes BGP, BGQ, BPS and BPR. Not all cars will need the recall, not all cars will need the inspection. This will be broken down by vin number and what batch vw releases your vin number in if it will apply to you.

Your car may have the updated coils or it may not. It probably doesn't considering they're broken. My car did not have the fuel line recall updated and its an 09!. Every car is different, just like the hand brake issues. Anyway if you are giving out $100's i'll take one! :laugh:


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

Update: Replaced all 5 coil packs last week, and about half a mile from work this morning one of the new one's blew out. The rich code was still there after replacing the set, could this be what is causing me to keep blowing them? I checked my spark plugs (running OEM stock plugs) and they were fine when I replaced the coil packs, so I don't think this is the issue.

1. What causes a car to keep blowing coil packs?
2. I'm working with Jeff on the software. He's probably going to put me back into a 91/93 program until he can get the CEL/rich issue resolved.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> Update: Replaced all 5 coil packs last week, and about half a mile from work this morning one of the new one's blew out. The rich code was still there after replacing the set, could this be what is causing me to keep blowing them? I checked my spark plugs (running OEM stock plugs) and they were fine when I replaced the coil packs, so I don't think this is the issue.
> 
> 1. What causes a car to keep blowing coil packs?
> 2. I'm working with Jeff on the software. He's probably going to put me back into a 91/93 program until he can get the CEL/rich issue resolved.


You might want to invest in a afr gauge :thumbup:


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

nah kevin, motor rebuilds are more fun to watch


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

kungfoojesus said:


> nah kevin, motor rebuilds are more fun to watch


Well sure but not when your set up to get this tune done... I know a couple r32 guys that are running it and love it, problem free. Its the first thing along with dsg flash im doing when I get my r :heart:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

LampyB said:


> Update: Replaced all 5 coil packs last week, and about half a mile from work this morning one of the new one's blew out. The rich code was still there after replacing the set, could this be what is causing me to keep blowing them? I checked my spark plugs (running OEM stock plugs) and they were fine when I replaced the coil packs, so I don't think this is the issue.
> 
> 
> > Ehhh this isnt soundin too good so far. I cant think of any reason why your blowing coilpacks like that other then the tune is totally messing up your ignition timing and frying them somehow. Hope you get that worked out as this was something I was looking into doing eventually. Not so much right now lol.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

finally had a chance to make it over to a local shop to have my codes run. it was reporting multiple cylinder misfires, but cylinder four came up a couple times i believe. we took a look at the injectors, and i just pulled their wiring harnesses off and put them back on tightly. thats all i was able to do at the time, but i had the codes cleared via vagcom after this was done. 

no misfire issues since, car is running smoothly again. i think it just went into limp mode due to a loose injector harness. the strange part about it though, is that the wiring harness that connects to the injectors doesn't actually clip into place. it just kinda slides on and off, and considering i drove the car on a 2,300 mile road trip from Denver to Boston its likely that it could have just come loose over time. i've been in and out of the engine bay many times as well, changing coil packs and all, so it could have been my fault as well. anyway, the rich code popped back up though, and Jeff is going to get me squared away with a gas tune in the next week or two until he can get the code sorted out.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

hope it works out. It will be a shame to go through all this trouble and not able to make it work.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

i don't know if your bigger injectors work like stock, but normally you have to squeeze the connectors to remove them from the plugs.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

kungfoojesus said:


> i don't know if your bigger injectors work like stock, but normally you have to squeeze the connectors to remove them from the plugs.


this is what i'm thinking as well. the wiring harness doesn't clip into place on the larger injectors, it just goes on and off. i'm going to take a closer look at the harnesses this weekend to be sure.

btw i am getting flashed with gas software on saturday, and running this until jeff can sort out the rich code. the guy who's flashing my car has an '08 R32, and he may be running the flex fuel software as well so i'll talk to him about my code issue. he's actually down in CT working with Jeff today, so maybe he'll be able to provide further information when i see him on saturday.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> this is what i'm thinking as well. the wiring harness doesn't clip into place on the larger injectors, it just goes on and off. i'm going to take a closer look at the harnesses this weekend to be sure.
> 
> btw i am getting flashed with gas software on saturday, and running this until jeff can sort out the rich code. the guy who's flashing my car has an '08 R32, and he may be running the flex fuel software as well so i'll talk to him about my code issue. he's actually down in CT working with Jeff today, so maybe he'll be able to provide further information when i see him on saturday.


Ya a couple mkv r32 guys are running the flex fuel tune with no problems at all. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Any updates man?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Yeah did Jeff get your tune all worked out for you yet or you still running the regular software?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tay272 said:


> Yeah did Jeff get your tune all worked out for you yet or you still running the regular software?


Yeah, I'm interested to know... I was setup to get it and he started having problems, and I kinda got left in the dark, its like this tune became the topic feared to be spoken of  I want to know if Jeff figured it out, because I want to buy it, e85 went down out here.... So I guess I'll just give BW another  email


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

sorry guys, no updates yet. i haven't heard anything since i was put back onto a gas program. i've emailed jeff a couple times with a random question about the gas software and haven't heard back. even though stations offering ethanol are limited in my area i still want the flex fuel tune because i'll be able to swap back and forth. i also paid for the larger injectors which aren't being utilized by the standard tune. i'll post up as soon as i have an update...


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I think BW is still selling the tune and kits, I hope they wouldnt sell it to me if it has problems with coilpack blowing, but I have not gotten a reply email in a month so Im guessing its not for purchase right now.


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## Doc TwoPointFive (Oct 6, 2007)

I've yet to get a CEL yet or have an issue with my coil packs. My car is currently at 44k though and I've only driven it maybe 100 miles since everything was installed. Jeff told me the same thing though and was initially going to send me the stand 93 tune but informed me via e-mail that he sent me the flex, so I'm not sure if he got everything worked out or if I'll be running into the same issue shortly. As it stands now I'm pretty sure I have a misfire but for some reason it only happens in 2nd over 5k. I'm hoping that with the bigger injectors I'm not running overly rich, especially reading about the coils now. Is there not an aftermarket coil out for our motors? I know they have them for the 2.0 but they're a good $500+ Keep us updated, I hope everything woks out for you.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Doc TwoPointFive said:


> I've yet to get a CEL yet or have an issue with my coil packs. My car is currently at 44k though and I've only driven it maybe 100 miles since everything was installed. Jeff told me the same thing though and was initially going to send me the stand 93 tune but informed me via e-mail that he sent me the flex, so I'm not sure if he got everything worked out or if I'll be running into the same issue shortly. As it stands now I'm pretty sure I have a misfire but for some reason it only happens in 2nd over 5k. I'm hoping that with the bigger injectors I'm not running overly rich, especially reading about the coils now. Is there not an aftermarket coil out for our motors? I know they have them for the 2.0 but they're a good $500+ Keep us updated, I hope everything woks out for you.


If you are having a misfire you should not continue driving the car... Meaning it is the e85 causing it, so I would have the 93 tune put on, Idk maybe the 550's are too big  Also the coils are the same, you just need one more. Well I guess I'll continue to sit and wait


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## Doc TwoPointFive (Oct 6, 2007)

I thought about getting the upgraded coils for the 2.0 since I heard they were the same for us, if I find my current ones are causing the issue I will contact the manufacturer, possibly see if they could give us a BB rate. I know a lot of turbo guys would be interested. Here is the link to the company: http://www.okadaprojects.com/usa/products_direct.htm


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Nah save your money man :thumbup:


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## Doc TwoPointFive (Oct 6, 2007)

It is a good deal of money, but if it's the only option out then that's just why. ECS makes replacements as well but I believe they're just the same as stock. I'm still doing some searching to see what people have been doing about this, just swapping oem for oem or adding to the system to make it more reliable.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

I never experienced misfiring due to the tune. It was a loose injector wiring harness. Just plugged it on securely, cleared codes, and was good to go. Sounds like there's something else going on with your car.

EDIT: I drove about 5K miles on the flex fuel tune without misfiring. About half of that was on ethanol. no codes until I switched back over to gas, then a rich code popped up. I would have just stayed on the flex fuel tune, but in Massachusetts I've gotta pass an annual inspection, so codes won't fly....


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> I never experienced misfiring due to the tune. It was a loose injector wiring harness. Just plugged it on securely, cleared codes, and was good to go. Sounds like there's something else going on with your car.
> 
> EDIT: I drove about 5K miles on the flex fuel tune without misfiring. About half of that was on ethanol. no codes until I switched back over to gas, then a rich code popped up. I would have just stayed on the flex fuel tune, but in Massachusetts I've gotta pass an annual inspection, so codes won't fly....


So have you pinpointed the cause of the coilpack problem? I was asking a local non vw tuner about e85 and we got to talking about evo's running it gain ~150hp from switching over, and I told him and showed him the flex fuel kit, and before I showed him this thread I asked what could be potential problems with the swap and guess what... He said since we have to use a coil-over plug spark system, and bigger injectors n/a to run it, there could be problems with coilpacks and fuel filter issues. He thinks your issue came from switching back to gas and the tune not being able to adapt itself down a notch...


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> So have you pinpointed the cause of the coilpack problem? I was asking a local non vw tuner about e85 and we got to talking about evo's running it gain ~150hp from switching over, and I told him and showed him the flex fuel kit, and before I showed him this thread I asked what could be potential problems with the swap and guess what... He said since we have to use a coil-over plug spark system, and bigger injectors n/a to run it, there could be problems with coilpacks and fuel filter issues. He thinks your issue came from switching back to gas and the tune not being able to adapt itself down a notch...


yeah, it was a loose injector harness. i thought i blew a CP, so i bought a new set because i needed to get the current "F" version anyway. then i had misfiring issues again, so i thought i kept blowing them. turned out it was a loose wiring harness, and as soon as i tightened it up the CP issue was resolved. i've driven for about a month, probably about 1,500 miles since and no issues at all. my point is that i don't think it was ever a bad CP, it was the harness that caused it in the first place. i don't feel that i wasted $100 swapping CP's though, because i got the most recent version so no big deal. i've also been running stock OEM plugs while on e85 and gas as well without issue...just for reference.

but YES, i personally believe that your buddy was correct in that when i switched back to gas the tune wasn't able to fully adapt back, thus the rich code popped up. the code popped up very soon after i did this (within about 10 miles). what happened though, is that i wasn't ever able to get rid of the rich code once it appeared. i switched back to ethanol, cleared the code, and it came back. switched to gas, cleared the code, and it came back. and that's why i'm running gas software right now because it hasn't been resolved. on a final note, i moved to Boston and thus wasn't able to leave my car with Gabe for further testing purposes. i was the test car, and this may be why things have been put on hold for the moment until they can get the kinks worked out.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

I've subscribed to this..
Sounds excellent.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> yeah, it was a loose injector harness. i thought i blew a CP, so i bought a new set because i needed to get the current "F" version anyway. then i had misfiring issues again, so i thought i kept blowing them. turned out it was a loose wiring harness, and as soon as i tightened it up the CP issue was resolved. i've driven for about a month, probably about 1,500 miles since and no issues at all. my point is that i don't think it was ever a bad CP, it was the harness that caused it in the first place. i don't feel that i wasted $100 swapping CP's though, because i got the most recent version so no big deal. i've also been running stock OEM plugs while on e85 and gas as well without issue...just for reference.
> 
> but YES, i personally believe that your buddy was correct in that when i switched back to gas the tune wasn't able to fully adapt back, thus the rich code popped up. the code popped up very soon after i did this (within about 10 miles). what happened though, is that i wasn't ever able to get rid of the rich code once it appeared. i switched back to ethanol, cleared the code, and it came back. switched to gas, cleared the code, and it came back. and that's why i'm running gas software right now because it hasn't been resolved. on a final note, i moved to Boston and thus wasn't able to leave my car with Gabe for further testing purposes. i was the test car, and this may be why things have been put on hold for the moment until they can get the kinks worked out.


Seems all is well with the tune :thumbup:


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## vacationdave#1866 (Feb 10, 2011)

If it was me just stick with e85 don't switch back and fourth


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

vacationdave#1866 said:


> If it was me just stick with e85 don't switch back and fourth


 Ya, those are my thoughts. I've had a bad experience with my Unitronic tune just disappearing off my ecu, when I go the flex fuel route its getting e85 only till it gets sold or the 3.6l, which it'll just get reflashed with it. If I have to go on road trips I'll get a roof rack and get a few 5 gallon gas cans full of it, just incase it cant be found for awhile.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

finding e85 on a road trip is almost next to impossible unless you're driving through the midwest or colorado. i went from denver > detroit > boston in one swoop and filled up with a tank of ethanol in Detroit. that was all i was able to find the entire 2,200+ miles...


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> finding e85 on a road trip is almost next to impossible unless you're driving through the midwest or colorado. i went from denver > detroit > boston in one swoop and filled up with a tank of ethanol in Detroit. that was all i was able to find the entire 2,200+ miles...


 I know the past few road trips I went on I would look to see how often I saw a station with it. I'll have to say I've seen more than I thought I would, but to be safe you would want to stop at that station, and fill up... I think the government should make it mandatory that a gas station has e85 off of every highway, at least one every hundred miles... I recently moved and they are building a getgo that will have e85 right there. 

You would think with automakers releases all these flex fuel models it would become a more mainstream fuel, but o guess not


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

You will need a gas station every 100 miles of highway, driving several miles out of your way to fill up a tank every 240 miles? I think I'll just stick with gas and fill up wherever I feel like every 400-450 miles. 

The e85 cars at the track are absolutely amazing though. All three of them. The cobra mustang out here let e85 sit in his car for a few months w/out using it though and it went caustic. Be careful letting this stuff sit around in your car. Fill it, burn it, repeat.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

This has definitly sparked my interest! Interesting! 

My buddy has an e85 tune for his scuby and needs to be virtually empty to switch to 93 without problems.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Been talking to a guy with his R32 running UM e85 tune, and he says consumption isn't that bad daily driving... But spirited driving, forget about it, burns about an extra 15-20% faster than gas which isn't bad for the extra timing you can pull


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Been talking to a guy with his R32 running UM e85 tune, and he says consumption isn't that bad daily driving... But spirited driving, forget about it, burns about an extra 15-20% faster than gas which isn't bad for the extra timing you can pull


 when heavy on the pedal it was definitely a good 15-20% decrease in mileage, but that was under heavy acceleration everywhere i went. it was about 23mpg's just driving around normally with a bit of spirited driving here and there.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> when heavy on the pedal it was definitely a good 15-20% decrease in mileage, but that was under heavy acceleration everywhere i went. it was about 23mpg's just driving around normally with a bit of spirited driving here and there.


 That's not bad at all! The other option is if Cobb releases a accessport for the BRZ I'll have e85 in that instead, and just daily the Rabbit still.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

tchilds said:


> You will need a gas station every 100 miles of highway, driving several miles out of your way to fill up a tank every 240 miles? I think I'll just stick with gas and fill up wherever I feel like every 400-450 miles.


 
why would you need a gas station every 100 miles of highway driving? i was consistently getting about 280-300 miles per tank on e85. i ran probably 15+ tanks of it with the tune. 

also if you were to fill up every 450 miles on regular 93 oct, that would be about 100 more miles to the tank in comparison to my stock 2.0T GLI (driven very lightly, gets about 350-375 miles per tank). getting 450 miles to the tank is ~32 mpg's at all times, both city and highway. i don't see how this is possible in a 5 cyl car, regardless of it being an auto 6spd tranny...


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