# new 4-door A3 allroad



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*new A3 allroad*

The Feb. 4 article about the new Audi A3 included the following statement:
"Expected to follow over the next several months will be ... a 4-door with styling and functionality of an allroad."
That's the car I've been waiting for! I love the styling and functionality of the allroad based on the A6 Avant. But it's too large for my needs. I loved the Steppenwolf concept car. I'd move back to Europe for an A3-based allroad!
How reliable is VWVortex's prediction of an A3 allroad? Is this something Audi has discussed in public? Would you buy one?
Escher


[Modified by Escher, 8:55 AM 2-10-2003]


----------



## lunch (Jan 19, 2003)

*Re: new 4-door A3 allroad (Escher)*

I love the a3 4-door .
Any photos been released yet?


----------



## fitch (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: new 4-door A3 allroad (lunch)*

i havent seen any photos yet


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new 4-door A3 allroad (lunch)*

Haven't seen any photos of the 4-door either, although the VWvortex article states that the 2-door and 4-door won't share many body panels, unlike they do now.
Back on topic: What about an *A3 allroad*, regardless of whether it is 2- or 4/5-door?
Escher


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

Here's a quick and dirty mockup of a *2004 Audi A3 allroad*, crafted in GraphicConverter on a Macintosh. Since Audi has only released 3-door images, my concept is 3-door for now. Note, however, that I would prefer a 5-door version (2 extra doors for the dog







). Click on the image below for a larger version.

Escher


----------



## gsharpee (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

I like the idea of an Allroad..esp. since I love the A6 based one already. 
I'm a big fan of the tall wagon look. It's a very interesting alternative for me. Having said all that, I really hope Audi offers Quattro with an engine other than the 3.2. 
If we end up not getting an S3 or any 3 door A3, at least give us Quattro with the 2.0T. Imagine an APR Stage III 2.0T with 325hp and AWD...very nice.


----------



## Mr You (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

I'm also looking forward to the A3/Allroad. I wouldn't expect it to look like the steppenwolf or A3 5-door, but probably an Avant from what others have said. Possibly like a shorter A4 Avant. As long as its not boxey like the Jetta Wagon rear. The air suspension should be programmable (ie. lower or higher than stock) like the current Allroad.
I would prefer the 3.2L VR6 and DSG transmission. This should be a *very* fun car. It may also have a TV tuner option.
I hope its my next, and I hope eventually some tuners bring out some turbo kits for the 3.2L VR6 and enable me to own my dream 420 lb ft of tq AWD super car. ;-)
Escher do a search for an A4 Allroad in google image search and use that as a basis for your A3 Avant / Allroad concept. ;-) The real thing will have the advantage of the nice "aggressive" A3 front end.
I posted some interesting pics on Audiworld:
A3 Avant/Allroad 


[Modified by Mr You, 9:53 AM 2-11-2003]


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Mr You)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The air suspension should be programmable (ie. lower or higher than stock) like the current Allroad.[HR][/HR]​You're absolutely right, *Mr You*. It's all about the flexibility of the suspension. I like 4WD. I like high ground clearance. But I can't stand current SUVs that either drive like tug-boats because they're so high, or can't go offroad because they're too low. The A6 Allroad drives just like a normal sporty wagon. But when you want to go off-road, it's a monster with all the ground-clearance you could want (within reason). That's exactly what I love about the Allroad.
quote:[HR][/HR]I would prefer the 3.2L VR6 and DSG transmission. This should be a *very* fun car.[HR][/HR]​That would obviously be a _blast_ to drive, on- and off-road. Something akin to the purpose-built high-performance 4WD racing machines that drive the Paris-Dakar and other off-road races. If money were no object, I'd always pick DSG over a simple manual or automatic transmission. With the TDI, I was simply looking for that low RPM torque for when you're stuck in mud and the low gear still isn't enough.








quote:[HR][/HR]Escher do a search for an A4 Allroad in google image search and use that as a basis for your A3 Avant / Allroad concept. ;-) .... I posted some interesting pics on Audiworld: A3 Avant/Allroad [HR][/HR]​No need for me to do more mockup work. The picture you found is great. It's obviously much more sophisticated than my mockup, and includes the 4/5 doors that I want. I allowed myself to post the concept from Audiworld here.








Escher


----------



## ahbroody (Feb 13, 2002)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

starting to look like a friggin toyota matrix http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Mr You (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad*

Believe me, I would be one of the first to take my future Allroad off road, but I'll keep it away from mud (PITA to clean) or any serious off roading. AFAIK, It doesn't have the safety and power of a low gear capable transfer case. Ideally you drive down hills using the engines torque to let you crawl slowly instead of breaking, much safer traction and control wise. Also these Allroads don't have quite enough articulation for me, loosing traction quickly on large bumps. This usually requires you to give it some gas to get over the bump (low gearing=control in this type of situation). This has happened in my stock 1994 Nissan Pathfinder and a buds Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60 so it requires some flex with large bumps. I'll stick to my 1978 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40 for now. The easy trails in NC are pretty hilly and benefit from low gear transfer case.
The Allroad should be more than capable on "stock 4x4 easy" trails, but I think I'm going to skip the cleanup and damage and stick to using the raised suspension for snow and steep grades on and off road, very low suspension for on road sport driving.
I'm not sure if the TDI is going to come to the states. From what I have read the 3.2L VR6 and 2.0 TDI have similar torque ratings.
I can't wait to christen it off road and on dirt mountain roads. Where's my hill climb?










[Modified by Mr You, 9:39 PM 2-11-2003]


----------



## Mr You (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (gsharpee)*

I am guessing the non-Allroad versions will have other engines available such as the 2.0L FSI and maybe the 1.6L. Guessing the 3.2L VR6 may be the only option available on the Allroad and S3.


[Modified by Mr You, 9:52 PM 2-11-2003]


----------



## Dan-B (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

What?!?! Are you guys serious?!







You better not be kidding now....
The allroad Quattro is my dream car, and if I can't have it, I'd settle for an A3 allroad!







Please be right!


----------



## fitch (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

Audi needs someothing to compete with BMW's new X3


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (fitch)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Audi needs someothing to compete with BMW's new X3







[HR][/HR]​Absolutely, *fitch*! If the X3 is anything like the X5, i.e. boxy without variable suspension, and the A3 allroad is anything like the A6 allroad, i.e. svelte with variable suspension, I have no doubt that the A3 allroad will rip the pants off the X3.
quote:[HR][/HR]starting to look like a friggin toyota matrix http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif [HR][/HR]​Sure, *ahbroody*. And the A4 Avant too! How much ground clearance does the Matrix have? Zilch. Power? Nope. AWD? Niet. Variable suspension? Never heard of it.








If Toyota managed to incorporate those features before Audi does, I'd have no issue getting a "Matrix allroad". I drive a Ford Focus ZX5 right now. It's a good value, reliable car. If Ford were to beat Audi to market with a "ZX5 allroad", I'd stick with Ford. Thankfully, we're _much_ more likely to see an A3 allroad than either of the other two fictitious raised sport hatchbacks/wagons.
In my book, looks are secondary to performance.
Escher


[Modified by Escher, 9:11 AM 2-12-2003]


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Mr You)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I hope its my next, and I hope eventually some tuners bring out some turbo kits for the 3.2L VR6 and enable me to own my dream 420 lb ft of tq AWD super car. ;-)[HR][/HR]​While posting in another thread, I had flashbacks of the *original Audi Quattro Turbo Coupe* and the *Lancia Delta HF Integrale* of the 1980s. Those were the two dream cars of my grade school years.
 
Escher


[Modified by Escher, 9:45 AM 2-12-2003]


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

For some reason I can't see Pete Schekin's post from 2/15, which was listed on the index for the A3 forum. Maybe posting something after will make it reappear.
On a related topic, there's some interesting discussion about the Golf V 4motion, which may feature a "Haldex 2" 4WD system, in the Volkswagen/Golf V forum. I really wonder how the 4x4 porduct offerings will play out between the Golf V and the new A3, especially with regard to raised/offroad "allroad" versions of the two. There's also talk in the van/transporter forum about the synchro/4motion version of the new T5 transporter/eurovan, which is supposed to be more rugged with better ground clearance.
Escher


[Modified by Escher, 2:57 PM 2-20-2003]


----------



## VertigoGTI (Apr 1, 2001)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

It looks like Audi is trying to incorporate more of their "Steppenwolf" concept study into the A3. I like it... like it a lot!


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (VertigoGTI)*

I finally found what I was looking for in this Auto Bild article. Marrakesh is indeed the name for the off-road Golf V, which will share its platform with the Audi A3 allroad/Steppenwolf. According to the article, exterior appearance is still in complete flux. Thus, the picture below is completely fictive.








Looks good to me. I just hope they manage to incorporate the Audi allroad's *variable suspension* and a *low range*. Base price is given as ca. 25,000 euro for the VW Marrakesh and 27,500 euro for the Audi A3 allroad/Steppenwolf. Both will supposedly only come with 4 doors.
Escher


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

As I am thinking more about the A3 allroad, I'm wondering in how many incarnations VWAG will decide to market this vehicle. I see three options. But I think there will only be one under the Audi brand, and one under the Volkswagen brand, for a total of two cars.
(1) Audi A3 allroad
(2) Volkswagen Baby Touareg (aka Marrakesh)
(3) Vokswagen Golf 4motion (raised off-road version)
I have little doubt that the Audi version will be sold as part of the A3 line. What I wonder is whether VW will create a new line (Baby Touareg) on the VW side, or market it as part of the Golf V line. 
In any case, I expect all incarnations to be 4-door. An off-road racing 2-door A3 allroad, akin to the Steppenwolf concept, would be sweet. But realistically, I think they're more likely to target people who will want rear doors to throw their dogs, wet snow-boots and outdoor gear in the back seats (but who don't want to go for the larger Audi Pike's Peak or VW Touareg).
Escher


----------



## Pete Schekin (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

quote:[HR][/HR]As I am thinking more about the A3 allroad, I'm wondering in how many incarnations VWAG will decide to market this vehicle...
Escher[HR][/HR]​Do you mean VWAG or VWoA in the US only? I'm not sure of the exact difference but I think VWAG is the parent and that VWoA does the VW marketing here and AoA does the Audi marketing here??.
I agree there will only be two variations,: one VW small SUV(definitely the Marrakech) and an Audi crossover type vehicle... our A3 allroad. 
In this forum jamie indicated the two. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=530137
"...Q - So what is VW going to give us instead?
A - (updated 02.09.03) VW is working on two 4-door Golf V-based SUV/Crossover vehicles. VWoA has reportedly asked Pischetsrieder for vehicles to compete with the Honda CRV and Ford Escape and Toyota Matrix. One will be a crossover type vehicle similar to a Pontiac Vibe or Toyota Matrix. The other will be a small SUV built of Golf and Touareg pieces that would compete with the Ford Escape and Nissan Exterra."

I really like the A3 allroad concept and it'll certainly be available sooner than the VW but when/if the Marrakech becomes available it'll be the hot seller imo! The Marrakech will be on the VW356 platform although it'll be marketed on it's own, not as a Golf.
The A3 allroad (thanks to the PikesPeak) will replace the current A6 allroad sooner than later imo. 


[Modified by Pete Schekin, 9:55 PM 2-28-2003]


----------



## XXX 1.8T (Aug 10, 2002)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Pete Schekin)*

I reckon Audi should make an A3 cabrio why does the Golf get to go topless


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Pete Schekin)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Do you mean VWAG or VWoA in the US only?[HR][/HR]​*Pete:* I meant VWAG as the parent and _manufacturing_ company. In other words, I expect VW as a whole to produce a larger variety of small AWD cars for Europe (and the rest of the world) than VWoA (and Audi USA, if it's a separate corporation) will market in the US.
quote:[HR][/HR]In this forum jamie indicated the two. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=530137
"...Q - So what is VW going to give us instead?
A - (updated 02.09.03) VW is working on two 4-door Golf V-based SUV/Crossover vehicles. VWoA has reportedly asked Pischetsrieder for vehicles to compete with the Honda CRV and Ford Escape and Toyota Matrix. One will be a crossover type vehicle similar to a Pontiac Vibe or Toyota Matrix. The other will be a small SUV built of Golf and Touareg pieces that would compete with the Ford Escape and Nissan Exterra."[HR][/HR]​I actually read that Golf V FAQ, but glanced over this part. The Auto Bild article linked above is from late November/early December 2002 and takes a similar position. Being new to VWvortex, I don't know where their sources are. From what I've been able to read on these boards, it sounds like the 4-door A3 allroad will be the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix crossover (raised AWD hatchback) and the VW Marrakesh will be the one to compete with small SUVs like the Ford Escape (which I like very much, because it's reasonably small). By the way, isn't the Nissan Xterra more in the size category of the Touareg, i.e. a mid-size SUV (but not in the same price category; Touareg is more expensive).
quote:[HR][/HR]I really like the A3 allroad concept and it'll certainly be available sooner than the VW but when/if the Marrakech becomes available it'll be the hot seller imo![HR][/HR]​I agree that the small SUV-type Marrakesh is likely to sell better in the SUV-obsessed US market. The A6-based Audi allroad hasn't sold nearly as well as expected, probably because it is a sensible, reasonable and efficient _alternative_ to an SUV. As such the allroad embodies a different philosophy that is (unfortunately) less attractive to Americans.
quote:[HR][/HR]The Marrakech will be on the VW356 platform although it'll be marketed on it's own, not as a Golf.[HR][/HR]​In the US at least, I think the Golf brand isn't recognized very well. So it would make perfect sense to market a Golf V-based Marrakesh as a separate model line.
quote:[HR][/HR]The A3 allroad (thanks to the PikesPeak) will replace the current A6 allroad sooner than later imo.[HR][/HR]​Interesting thought. However, the A6 allroad and a potential A3 allroad would be in completely different size categories. Nonetheless, I think it would be a good replacement (if you can call it that). In my experience, most A6 allroad owners are actually singles or childless couples that would be better served by a smaller A3-based allroad model.
Escher


[Modified by Escher, 12:06 PM 3-1-2003]


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

Has anybody heard anything about an A3 allroad recently? If so, I'd love to hear about it.
Escher


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

Here's another A3 Allroad rendering from the Stern.de Erlkönige website. They call it the "Audi A3 SUV". I wonder how soon we'll see this thing, or its VW-branded equivalent hit the market. 2004? 2005? Never?








I think I prefer the VW-braded Auto Bild version pictured further above. I'm not so sure about the quality of Stern's mockup.
Escher


[Modified by Escher, 11:40 AM 4-23-2003]


----------



## {ownly} (Apr 7, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*

this is starting to look good








the A6 based allroad is wayyy too much car for my liking, too big for me. but this on the other had... it's looking at me isn't it








it's saying: "would you please, please beat the hell out of me in the mud? would you? please, please"
oh yeah http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Escher (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: new A3 allroad ({ownly})*


_Quote, originally posted by *{ownly}* »_the A6 based allroad is wayyy too much car for my liking, too big for me. but this on the other had... it's looking at me isn't it 

It's funny that you should dig up this old thread. I was just visiting to see if there were any news about the Audi A3 Allroad.
Somebody in the Baby Touareg thread made a point that struck me. The gas mileage (and other performance and price) of raised AWD station wagons, like the rumored A3 Allroad, isn't any better than that of some SUVs. So if, like me, you're looking at AWD wagons because you think you'll save gas, money and time, you might not be looking in the right place.
Escher


----------



## VenomSLC (Feb 24, 1999)

*Re: new A3 allroad (Escher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Escher* »_
The gas mileage (and other performance and price) of raised AWD station wagons, like the rumored A3 Allroad, isn't any better than that of some SUVs. So if, like me, you're looking at AWD wagons because you think you'll save gas, money and time, you might not be looking in the right place.
Escher

This is exactly why we are hoping for a 5-door A3 (non-allroad). If that doesn't happen then we will be going the route of a 99-01 A4 Avant. We are going to be out in the country but also want mileage. A TDI or FSI A3 5-door would be perfect!


----------

