# 2.5L I5 (RS3/TTRS) in a MK7 Golf R?



## PwrUsr (Aug 1, 2015)

Lets forget about cost for a bit... I'm very curious as to what's needed exactly for a swap like this. I've seen precious little online as far as what's needed.

I'm thinking the following since I'd likely also do a transmission swap along with the engine...

-Engine & Transmission (duh)
-engine harness
-ECU & TCU from the RS3/TTRS
-Intake
-downpipe
-some exhaust work to fit a RS3 or TTRS exhaust to the R
-Engine mounts

I'm thinking the best way to source this would be to buy a wreaked RS3 or TTRS from https://www.copart.com/ this would allow me to source most of the parts needed from the car that was wreaked.

I'm more or less curious about the process as to what's needed to complete this kind of swap. Has anyone documented it here or elsewhere that I don't know of? Yes I've searched, I can only find a couple of cars in Europe that have done this swap. But no documentation as to how it was done or what exactly needed to actually complete the swap.


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

I'd love to know too. Because I would love to do this so someday. Another thought, will everything in the interior work with an RS3 Engine and brain? Like all the guages, stats nav, etc? Do you have to do a bunch of complicated VCDS programming to get everything to work?

The ones in Europe (like Dave mk7R's) all look like they have the older iron block engines. Fine if your going fast in a straight line, not so great for cornering. I would prefer a newer, lighter aluminum engine block.

I wonder if it's easier with the new engines because they are MBQ. I know Dave had his car all torn apart to run wiring which is a nightmare and a lot of things didn't work right for a while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Several on the road

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## memorylasts (Dec 27, 2005)

It's gonna be a pretty bolt in affair since the chassis are the same. 

Remove everything from one car then remove it from the other. 

Install all the Audi still in golf r.

I'd do some research and see what parts are different or haldex if it is. 

If you think about it should be pretty straight forward just a lot of work and money. 

I would buy the whole car just to have everything. Just keep in mind you don't know 100% what may be needed with a car from copart. I would set aside another budget for bits and pieces - rebuilds etc...

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## PwrUsr (Aug 1, 2015)

KsR_808 said:


> I'd love to know too. Because I would love to do this so someday. Another thought, will everything in the interior work with an RS3 Engine and brain? Like all the guages, stats nav, etc? Do you have to do a bunch of complicated VCDS programming to get everything to work?
> 
> The ones in Europe (like Dave mk7R's) all look like they have the older iron block engines. Fine if your going fast in a straight line, not so great for cornering. I would prefer a newer, lighter aluminum engine block.
> 
> ...


I'd definitely be interested in a aluminum block engine. The iron block engine would I believe also have a older ECU. It would almost be like putting a MK6 engine into the MK7. 

I'm thinking it may be easier with MQB since it's almost Legos in a sense with many different things.



Vegeta Gti said:


> Several on the road
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Do they have build threads on how it was done exactly? That's really what I'm looking for.



memorylasts said:


> It's gonna be a pretty bolt in affair since the chassis are the same.
> 
> Remove everything from one car then remove it from the other.
> 
> ...


Those are definitely a few things I didn't think about yet. 

I'm more or less in the dreaming/initial phase of the build. I'm not 100% on it yet because of the amount of time and money that would need to get things working.


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

PwrUsr said:


> I'd definitely be interested in a aluminum block engine. The iron block engine would I believe also have a older ECU. It would almost be like putting a MK6 engine into the MK7.
> 
> I'm thinking it may be easier with MQB since it's almost Legos in a sense with many different things.
> 
> ...


I'm sure it's huge tune and money. It would actually be a lot cheaper (not easier) to put a 3.2/3.6 VR6 In.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## PwrUsr (Aug 1, 2015)

KsR_808 said:


> I'm sure it's huge tune and money. It would actually be a lot cheaper (not easier) to put a 3.2/3.6 VR6 In.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Funny, the VW/Audi shop I was thinking about going to mainly does VR6 things 

I'm popping the question to them to see what kinda things are needed to get a rough estimate on costs.


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

PwrUsr said:


> Funny, the VW/Audi shop I was thinking about going to mainly does VR6 things
> 
> I'm popping the question to them to see what kinda things are needed to get a rough estimate on costs.


Ya, you can get used VR6 3.6 motors on eBay for like 1500-3000 $. An aluminum RS3 motor will cost you over 15k I’m guessing. You can fully build the VR6 and get a turbo and have $ left over for the labor and tune for that money. Just be aware it will be more front heavy by a hundred or two pounds. 

Please share here and quote me when you find out. Show them what HGP is doing in Germany on YouTube.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

//


----------



## PwrUsr (Aug 1, 2015)

KsR_808 said:


> Ya, you can get used VR6 3.6 motors on eBay for like 1500-3000 $. An aluminum RS3 motor will cost you over 15k I’m guessing. You can fully build the VR6 and get a turbo and have $ left over for the labor and tune for that money. Just be aware it will be more front heavy by a hundred or two pounds.
> 
> Please share here and quote me when you find out. Show them what HGP is doing in Germany on YouTube.
> 
> ...


That VR6 sounds alot heavier than I thought 

I had the opportunity to lift the bare engine block that was built by IROZ. I was shocked at just how light it was. At most 70lbs :snowcool:


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

PwrUsr said:


> That VR6 sounds alot heavier than I thought
> 
> I had the opportunity to lift the bare engine block that was built by IROZ. I was shocked at just how light it was. At most 70lbs :snowcool:


Well, that’s just a guess, but iron vs. aluminum, 4-5 Piston’s Vs. 6. That thing was a heavy lump in my R32. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

I’d love to throw a built IROZ block into my R.


----------



## PwrUsr (Aug 1, 2015)

KsR_808 said:


> Well, that’s just a guess, but iron vs. aluminum, 4-5 Piston’s Vs. 6. That thing was a heavy lump in my R32.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The MK7 GOLF/GTI/R all have iron blocks too. Granted it's still not as heavy as the VR6 lump :laugh:



KsR_808 said:


> I’d love to throw a built IROZ block into my R.


That is a sight to behold, super lightweight too


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

PwrUsr said:


> The MK7 GOLF/GTI/R all have iron blocks too. Granted it's still not as heavy as the VR6 lump :laugh:
> 
> 
> That is a sight to behold, super lightweight too


I know... I keep seeing (and maybe more importantly hearing) all the RS3 Videos on YouTube like Malaka Motorsports, who seems to be independently wealthy and just keeps upgrading his RS3 With IROZ. . I think now he's at the IMS 1000 Level (built motor obviously). But OMG those are fast. I think they broke into the 8's!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

PwrUsr said:


> The MK7 GOLF/GTI/R all have iron blocks too. Granted it's still not as heavy as the VR6 lump :laugh:
> 
> 
> That is a sight to behold, super lightweight too


So, I was at the Audi parts dept today and I asked them to look up the RS3 long block for me and quote me a price...

$27,000 after taxes.

And I’m not even sure that was with the transmission. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## PwrUsr (Aug 1, 2015)

KsR_808 said:


> So, I was at the Audi parts dept today and I asked them to look up the RS3 long block for me and quote me a price...
> 
> $27,000 after taxes.
> 
> ...


ROFLMAO!

They don't call it the Stealership for nothing :laugh:

After a bit of research I found that the R and RS3 both share the same wheelbase. This matters because the prop shaft from the RS3 would likely need to be used in a swap like this. 

Needless to say, the more I dig into this the more I realize that a donor car is likely the cheapest solution to this swap.


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

PwrUsr said:


> ROFLMAO!
> 
> They don't call it the Stealership for nothing :laugh:
> 
> ...


I know right? 

So, have you found anything out about the engine management? Like... do you need to use the RS3 ECU (I’m assuming you do). And how does that hook into the electrical of the R, the instrument cluster, the car dynamic ride settings, etc.? I feel like that is the hardest part.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## PwrUsr (Aug 1, 2015)

KsR_808 said:


> I know right?
> 
> So, have you found anything out about the engine management? Like... do you need to use the RS3 ECU (I’m assuming you do). And hire does that hook into the electrical of the R, the instrument cluster, the car dynamic ride settings, etc.? I feel like that is the hardest part.
> 
> ...


While I can't say with absolute certainty what I have so far found is that you will need the ECU and engine wiring harness for the RS3. To be honest I think the best way to do the swap is to get a donor car to pull everything needed.

I may end up going only half way with this swap and building the stock engine and mating a DQ500 to the engine. I haven't made my mind up yet. I know this isn't going to be a cheap and easy swap. If only they had the RS3 hatchback here or even the RSQ3 I wouldn't even bother with this swap. But I dig hatchbacks :heart:


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

PwrUsr said:


> While I can't say with absolute certainty what I have so far found is that you will need the ECU and engine wiring harness for the RS3. To be honest I think the best way to do the swap is to get a donor car to pull everything needed.
> 
> I may end up going only half way with this swap and building the stock engine and mating a DQ500 to the engine. I haven't made my mind up yet. I know this isn't going to be a cheap and easy swap. If only they had the RS3 hatchback here or even the RSQ3 I wouldn't even bother with this swap. But I dig hatchbacks :heart:


Same! I totally wanted the hatch (although the sedan is nice too). 

What about a 2.5 out of a rabbit? You wouldn’t have the RS3 head but you could build the motor and get head work done for a fraction of the price. And then you can turbo the sh|t out of it and make insane power anyway. It would just be a bit heavier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## CorrieG60 (Jan 18, 2004)

KsR_808 said:


> Same! I totally wanted the hatch (although the sedan is nice too).
> 
> What about a 2.5 out of a rabbit? You wouldn’t have the RS3 head but you could build the motor and get head work done for a fraction of the price. And then you can turbo the sh|t out of it and make insane power anyway. It would just be a bit heavier.
> 
> ...


Building a forged 2.5 NA will be cheaper and easier.. Has been done already a number of times..
And turboing it has also been done several times.
Only thing with that is there a no P&P kits available, you need to source all the parts yourself.
BUUTT: I'm selling a brand new IMS850 turbokit, for the 2.5 NA engines. the tubulair exhaust manifold has been custom build by Iroz Motorsport, as they normally only do their stuff for the 2.5TFSI engines.
the turbo is a Xona rotor 8267 turbo, capable of 700+whp


----------



## PwrUsr (Aug 1, 2015)

Welp the coronavirus effectively put the final nail in the coffin for this idea. At least for the time being


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

CorrieG60 said:


> Building a forged 2.5 NA will be cheaper and easier.. Has been done already a number of times..
> And turboing it has also been done several times.
> Only thing with that is there a no P&P kits available, you need to source all the parts yourself.
> BUUTT: I'm selling a brand new IMS850 turbokit, for the 2.5 NA engines. the tubulair exhaust manifold has been custom build by Iroz Motorsport, as they normally only do their stuff for the 2.5TFSI engines.
> the turbo is a Xona rotor 8267 turbo, capable of 700+whp


Nice! 

here’s a good example of the naturally aspirated straight five :


https://youtu.be/yq6Ahsk4VGo

only 280 hp though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## buff8622 (Oct 17, 2012)

PwrUsr said:


> Lets forget about cost for a bit... I'm very curious as to what's needed exactly for a swap like this. I've seen precious little online as far as what's needed.
> 
> I'm thinking the following since I'd likely also do a transmission swap along with the engine...
> 
> ...


If it can be done to a golf, I'd love to hear it roar in the Atlas!


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

Funny this thread should come back around now as I’m doing this exact thing…. TTRS DAZA in my golf R 










Innovative Motor Sports is documenting it on YouTube…







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

Coming along…










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## yetiboy (Oct 27, 2002)

congrats! dream build for sure. I've been watching some of Innovative's videos on the swap process. I don't know if you are willing to share but what's the rough cost on this project? How much did you have to spend on the TTRS donor?


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

yetiboy said:


> congrats! dream build for sure. I've been watching some of Innovative's videos on the swap process. I don't know if you are willing to share but what's the rough cost on this project? How much did you have to spend on the TTRS donor?


Thanks 

Donors can be had for around $25k (but you can recoup costs by selling bits off it) and the swap can range from $15-80k depending on how crazy you want to get. Expect to pay ~ $30-40k on average.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## yetiboy (Oct 27, 2002)

KsR_808 said:


> Thanks
> 
> Donors can be had for around $25k (but you can recoup costs by selling bits off it) and the swap can range from $15-80k depending on how crazy you want to get. Expect to pay ~ $30-40k on average.


Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Any solidified plans for tuning? I've been with EQT for going on 2 years with my Golf R on the stock IS38 for a year and been running their Vortex for the past yr+. Would love to stick with them if I would go your route, but I think they are still developing their tunes for the platform using DS1?


----------



## KsR_808 (Nov 20, 2003)

yetiboy said:


> Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Any solidified plans for tuning? I've been with EQT for going on 2 years with my Golf R on the stock IS38 for a year and been running their Vortex for the past yr+. Would love to stick with them if I would go your route, but I think they are still developing their tunes for the platform using DS1?





yetiboy said:


> Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Any solidified plans for tuning? I've been with EQT for going on 2 years with my Golf R on the stock IS38 for a year and been running their Vortex for the past yr+. Would love to stick with them if I would go your route, but I think they are still developing their tunes for the platform using DS1?


Nice . I was EQT e30. Really like the brand and the tune! Alex @ Innovative (who is doing my swap) is partnered with them and supplies their fuel pumps. 

Yeah, I plan on doing a stage 2 93 octane tune using DS1. They have OTS maps (similar to how the Cobb access port comes their own staged tunes). I think they might be a little bit conservative but that’s OK because from what I understand, some people that are running Unitronic’s ethanol tunes are snapping rods in half, so I’d really like to avoid any drama like that if possible  Which is too bad because the Uni Stg 2 e85 Tune is crazy fast for a stock block.

I’ll upgrade to an ethanol tune when I build the motor next year or the year after. Just rods and pistons. At that point I’ll get a custom tune and can really turn it up.

But ya, EQT isn’t selling DS1’s for DAZAs right now. They have their RS3 Tuning program on hold for some reason. I’m trying to keep costs low right now, so no ethanol (even if I wanted to) because that would necessitate an upgraded fuel pump, injectors, and a custom tune (pump is like $1300, custom tune is probably $800, injectors are $400). The car will still be Golf R Stg 3-fast just on 93, so that will be enough for now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------

