# EVO FMIC in NB?



## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

I'm totally aware that this is only a Photoshop mockup (Many challenges will show up on install). From rough measurements of fmic in relation of the car.... this EVO FMIC seems to fit nicely. Keeping fog lights / oem grill. We'll see! I'll post updates!
Thoughts? Please share. Thanks.








Also It's onsale at http://www.momentumtuning.com http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Lorem at 6:17 AM 12-8-2004_


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## '02 Turbo S (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*

I think the APR FMIC looks similar to that as well. I thought you were looking at the Neuspeed? Nice pic BTW. Looking at the pic longer, I think the rebar might have to go.


_Modified by '02 Turbo S at 1:49 AM 12-8-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*

nice mock up!! 
It may very well be a tight fit between the fog lights and if it does fit like it does in the pic -- the fog light brackets (which are integrated into the housing of the fog) will most certainly have to be modifed.
They are shaped like 'Y's on the fog lights, meaning three mounting points. Fairly sure it is the top that has the two points. 
here's the fogs:








The other challenge of the New Beetle front end is the upper intercooler pipe. It is completely different then GTI/Jetta upper pipes. 
Where our stock SMIC has the upper end tank (the outlet) going at a 45 degree angle up and towards the throttle body, the GTI/Jetta stock SMIC upper end tank has the outlet dumping directly perpendicular of the core (right towards the radiator). Our upper pipes also meander to try and wiggle their way into the engine compartment w/ more effort then the other MKIV's.








also note where the tow hook cover is currently on the p-shop. that works out to be under the height of the stock steel inner bumper IIRC. 
it certainly would look awesome!



_Modified by gt2437 at 2:07 AM 12-8-2004_


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*

Looks like a clean setup if it comes out the way you have it pictured.
I don't know but I was never into the whole intercooler thing showing outside the bumper. On some cars it looks good, on NB's looks silly to me. If you must upgrade the intercooler, i would upgrade the side mount intercooler i forgot who makes one to avoid all the bumper cutting. And most likely you will have to lose the foglights and its another reason why I never got one either. 
good luck if you do end up getting it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif looks like a tight squeeze for what you want.
BTW. are you doing custom piping for it and who is doing this for you?


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## '02 Turbo S (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_The other challenge of the New Beetle front end is the upper intercooler pipe. It is completely different then GTI/Jetta upper pipes. 
Where our stock SMIC has the upper end tank (the outlet) going at a 45 degree angle up and towards the throttle body, the GTI/Jetta stock SMIC upper end tank has the outlet dumping directly perpendicular of the core (right towards the radiator). Our upper pipes also meander to try and wiggle their way into the engine compartment w/ more effort then the other MKIV's.








_Modified by gt2437 at 2:07 AM 12-8-2004_


I tried to mount a Forge SMIC and could not because of this. The top of the SMIC to the TB area is alot different than on a Golf. It's a shame that nobody really makes a FMIC for the TS. What about the ATP kit, would that work?


_Modified by '02 Turbo S at 8:16 AM 12-8-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? ('02 Turbo S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *’02 Turbo S* »_

I tried to mount a Forge SMIC and could not because of this. The top of the SMIC to the TB area is alot different than on a Golf. It's a shame that nobody really makes a FMIC for the TS. What about the ATP kit, would that work?


yep, definitely no fun. The ATP kit would work, but I'm not impressed by the size of the core and the length/routing of the piping, and losing the fog lights for sure w/ their setup.


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*








Thanks everyone for your reply.
*F&F:* I'm not a big fan of the exposed FMIC either. Just look like exposed teeth to me







. It's especially nasty when there's no grill in front of it. Maybe I'll paint it all black to keep it stealthy. I'm looking to do the installation/trimming myself minus the custom pipe bending job.
*GT:* Thanks for the fogs photo. 
1. Regarding the fogs lights getting in the way. Hope I can Dremel some of the backing away if there's a slight miss fit. All too soon to tell. I just need to get my hand on that kit during these winter months. Like you said, worse case, I'll have to relocate them to the side.
2. Interesting what you said about GTI/Jetta upper pipes differences in comparison to NBs. Got photos?
3. Regarding the two hook covers location... I'm loss. Do you think I should move the p-shop internal up or down?
*Last but not least!* Is all this even necessary running K03 overboost at 16-18PSI (Holding)? I know that it's a must for STGIII. I'm only persuting this project because my car run sluggish during the summer months and hot temp. Runs like a mofo during cool mornings and evenings.
Good times








Cheers










_Modified by Lorem at 5:29 PM 12-8-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lorem* »_
*GT:* Thanks for the fogs photo. 
1. Regarding the fogs lights getting in the way. Hope I can Dremel some of the backing away if there's a slight miss fit. All too soon to tell. I just need to get my hand on that kit during these winter months. Like you said, worse case, I'll have to relocate them to the side.
2. Interesting what you said about GTI/Jetta upper pipes differences in comparison to NBs. Got photos?
3. Regarding the two hook covers location... I'm loss. Do you think I should move the p-shop internal up or down?
*Last but not least!* Is all this even necessary running K03 overboost at 16-18PSI (Holding)? I know that it's a must for STGIII. I'm only persuting this project because my car run sluggish during the summer months and hot temp. Runs like a mofo during cool mornings and evenings.
Good times








Cheers









_Modified by Lorem at 5:29 PM 12-8-2004_

unfortunately, no pics on the intercooler differences but I have seen both first hand. I realized how few pictures I have of the car during the turbo s bumper swap going through them last night







. No worries I will take plenty next time the front clip comes off.








The tow hook cover placement makes me think that the replacement bar (and the FMIC) may be situated higher than the p-shop, but it is really hard to say. The location of the FMIC (heightwise) will be determined by the clearance of the lower bumper lip (and in turn ground clearance), so that the bottom end tank won't be scraping. 
I hope the bottom lip of the turbo s front fascia does indeed cover the entire lower end tank of the vertical core FMIC, but honestly it may not. A bit of the end tank may be exposed, but we'll just have to see how it goes together.
From my VAG-Com logging the stock SMIC actually does an adequate job for what it is for normal driving. It will usually drop the intake temps to nominal (about 30 degrees celcius) from a second or third gear run in a matter of 5-10 seconds. However, on my whip you can really feel the difference in power when the intercooler is cold (first venture into boost once it's warmed up). Power is crisper and more responsive w/ cooler intake temps.
The FMIC will really shine on spirited runs and in the summer time (as you mentioned) where the SMIC is already heatsoaked. Sitting in traffic at idle will also heatsoak the SMIC and raise IAT 20 degrees celcius! Once it's moving though the temps will subside, but not close enough to ambient. 
If you like full throttle runs through at least 3 gears in a row, the FMIC will most certainly help keep the IAT low throughout the run -- even on stock turbo w/ a chip. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Low IAT = cooler air = no detonation = more agressive timing = more power.


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## 1.8t performance (Jun 2, 2004)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*

has anyone ever thought of using the stock cooler and just cutting a hole on that side of the bumper the put an aluminum ring around it with som nice wire mesh or some thing of that sort. and then since you have a turbo S the wheel well liner is already cut for vents so then you would have full flow through cooling. then you would have all the effects of a fmic kit minus the price of one.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (1.8t performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8t performance* »_has anyone ever thought of using the stock cooler and just cutting a hole on that side of the bumper the put an aluminum ring around it with som nice wire mesh or some thing of that sort. and then since you have a turbo S the wheel well liner is already cut for vents so then you would have full flow through cooling. then you would have all the effects of a fmic kit minus the price of one.

But you'd still be stuck w/ a 7.25" x 3.5" x 8" intercooler core w/ plastic end tanks that heat soaks too easily. Oh and it won't have the bling look that a FMIC provides.


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## 1.8t performance (Jun 2, 2004)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*

you do have a point there but there is a way around it. copy the subaru STI and put in water sprayers and drench the intercooler with water or rubbing alcohol so when the air hits it wi will become very cold. several magazines such as car and driver have said that actually made a difference spraying water on it.


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## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (1.8t performance)*

Lorem,
I recently purchased the EVO FMIC myself...







Great minds think alike!








I won't get around to installing it for a few months... so PLEASE post your observations and progress if you take on this project!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (1.8t performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8t performance* »_you do have a point there but there is a way around it. copy the subaru STI and put in water sprayers and drench the intercooler with water or rubbing alcohol so when the air hits it wi will become very cold. several magazines such as car and driver have said that actually made a difference spraying water on it.

that will work to a degree, but it's a band-aid fix. It's like having two cars that run the same times in the quarter mile -- one being turbocharged and the other just having nitrous. When you run out the fun is gone. That and the whole logistics have configuring the sprayer at the right times, which would most likely be a manual switch.


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (w00sh!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *w00sh!* »_Lorem,
I recently purchased the EVO FMIC myself...







Great minds think alike!








I won't get around to installing it for a few months... so PLEASE post your observations and progress if you take on this project!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Hey wOOsh! I'm glad you join us. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Hey can you do me a favor and provide all the dimensions Width/Height/Depth + pipe diameter. I'll do a more accurate mockup.
Yis, Great minds do think alike


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## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*

Will do... I'll post the info in a few hours.
The FMIC is sitting in a box here in my office.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (w00sh!)*

Here ya go... forgive my lack of photo editing skillz...


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (w00sh!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *w00sh!* »_Here ya go... forgive my lack of photo editing skillz...









Ur the man! Thanks for the infos! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## -KIX- (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*

My principal TEch guy happens to be the offcial Evo distribuitor in Mexico City he has an evo FMIC exactly the same in the pic.... last week we took out the whol e front of my bug and he told me that I needed 2 things to put it in there:
A turbo S front bumper and loose my fog lights.
Extensive cutting of the front crash bar, and quite a lot of custom modding.
HE told me it would be easier to get a garret core and make it longer and less thick and also loose the fog lights and the extensive cutting would be minimal but it could be potentally easy to break in a traffic mishap....
So I guess Ill take th eintercooler word out of my mod vocabulary... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (-KIX-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-KIX-* »_My principal TEch guy happens to be the offcial Evo distribuitor in Mexico City he has an evo FMIC exactly the same in the pic.... last week we took out the whol e front of my bug and he told me that I needed 2 things to put it in there:
A turbo S front bumper and loose my fog lights.
Extensive cutting of the front crash bar, and quite a lot of custom modding.
HE told me it would be easier to get a garret core and make it longer and less thick and also loose the fog lights and the extensive cutting would be minimal but it could be potentally easy to break in a traffic mishap....
So I guess Ill take th eintercooler word out of my mod vocabulary... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Thanks for the infos. No one said it would be easy.


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*

Are you doing a turbo upgrade? because it seems as if your doing it for the looks? Just something to consider but a fmic on a beetle will change the looks completely. The stinking k03 really doesn't need it. If your looking to get power, instatead of buying an intercooler you could get a larger turbo and start upgrading . My mechanic has had several setups which don't require fmic putting down 280-290whp.(on gti's) If you are doing a upgrade in the future then it will defenetly benefit. To each their own but i'd hate to see someone dishing out 1000$ and being dissapointed in the end. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (FastAndFurious)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FastAndFurious* »_Are you doing a turbo upgrade? because it seems as if your doing it for the looks? Just something to consider but a fmic on a beetle will change the looks completely. The stinking k03 really doesn't need it. If your looking to get power, instatead of buying an intercooler you could get a larger turbo and start upgrading . My mechanic has had several setups which don't require fmic putting down 280-290whp.(on gti's) If you are doing a upgrade in the future then it will defenetly benefit. To each their own but i'd hate to see someone dishing out 1000$ and being dissapointed in the end. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'm sure you're right. FMIC improvement on K03 (in hot weather) will be minimal. It's been one year and my car is coming out exactly how I wanted... there's not much left I want to do except for the caractre wing this winter. I have the rest of the winter/spring to figure out the FMIC. Much of next year will be concentrated on saving up for APR STG III or another big turbo. 


_Modified by Lorem at 3:53 PM 12-10-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lorem* »_
Much of next year will be concentrated on saving up for APR STG III or another big turbo. 

mmmm STG3+ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
mmmm STG3+ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









My bad, STG3-Plus!


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lorem* »_
My bad, STG3-Plus!









hehe, well 50 more hp for $500 more -- you gotta do that.


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lorem* »_
I'm sure you're right. FMIC improvement on K03 (in hot weather) will be minimal. It's been one year and my car is coming out exactly how I wanted... there's not much left I want to do except for the caractre wing this winter. I have the rest of the winter/spring to figure out the FMIC. Much of next year will be concentrated on saving up for APR STG III or another big turbo. 

_Modified by Lorem at 3:53 PM 12-10-2004_

best of luck, your car is comming along very nicely http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
mmmm STG3+ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









I wasn't aware that APR provided programming for Beetles with the the Stage III kit, much less the + kit...










_Modified by w00sh! at 8:04 AM 12-10-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (w00sh!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *w00sh!* »_
I wasn't aware that APR provided programming for Beetles with the the Stage III kit, much less the + kit...










no not really, but we really drive retro GTI's anyway







... If you really want it done, it can be done.
STG3+


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## -KIX- (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*

The guys in APR (brett I Think) went to the Puebla Plant last year to put some Stage III in turbo S Beetles, those are really sick fast cars.....a little bit mmore lag but once you get past 2600rpm, it feels like the back to the future car...
I was going to get the dual intercooler way since EVO DEALER IN MEXICO has a lot of leftover TT intercoolers but the instalation would be even worse that a FMIC since the bug has a very thigth space (near the battery) also it has a steering oil cooler in that zone, and worst of all the mid tube would get all the heat of the radiators fans....








maybe I can buy a large electric high speed fan for the stock side intercooler and cool the IC while sitting on traffic...???


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## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (-KIX-)*

Anything new on this Lorem?
How feasible is this?


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (w00sh!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *w00sh!* »_Anything new on this Lorem?
How feasible is this?

It actually looks very good from your measurement in comparison to the car. 
1. Good chance well be able to keep the fog lights.
2. Lower pipe look like should hook right up to the pancake pipe.
3. We may need to have a welder specialist do us a new impact bumper... I'm not keen on that flimpsy bar they provide.
4. Upper pipe will definitely need a custom job... shouldn’t' be bad. 
*?*. My question is.... where the heck will the pressure sensor mount to? The EVO kit doesn't include a mounting port? 
We'll get this thing figure out eventually










_Modified by Lorem at 1:36 PM 12-15-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*

as for the bumper support, something like APR has done w/ theirs would work pretty well (trimmed to fit the FMIC, but reinforced)
































That or the Forge FMIC uses the euro inner bumper which is smaller (unfortunately bad pic that really doesn't show it):


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## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*

Lorem,
That's great news!!
gt237,
Thanks for posting the APR bumper support idea!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now, the question is, who will be the first to do it?


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (w00sh!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *w00sh!* »_Lorem,
Now, the question is, who will be the first to do it?









Feel free to beat me to it. It would be nice for me to get a DIY install from ya!















btw: Thanks GT2437


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## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lorem* »_
Feel free to beat me to it. It would be nice for me to get a DIY install from ya!















btw: Thanks GT2437

But you are the fabricating MASTER!
You first!!!!!


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (w00sh!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *w00sh!* »_
But you are the fabricating MASTER!
You first!!!!!
















FYI: Our latest AutoBio winner got the Evo too








BTW: I updated the first photo of this post with measurements from your image! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by Lorem at 4:46 AM 12-16-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lorem* »_
FYI: Our latest AutoBio winner got the Evo too








BTW: I updated the first photo of this post with measurements from your image! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by Lorem at 4:46 AM 12-16-2004_

nice! the fitment is looking more and more possible


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## w00sh! (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (w00sh!)*

For your viewing pleasure. I took apart my wife's 1.8T 2000 GLX Side Mount / Throttle Body / Intake Temp and clean everything. I took the opportunity to take some shots.



















_Modified by Lorem at 5:10 AM 12-22-2004_


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*

nice shots and p-shop!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Now everyone can see why that upper pipe is the biggest pain in the arse!!!







lol


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## 2naFish (Dec 3, 2004)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*

does apr provide the upper support bar with there intercooler?
and do all of thes fmic come with piping?
does the piping mean we cant keep the engine cover on?
is it possible to do this with stock beetle bumper (not turbo s) and retain or relocate fog lights?


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (2naFish)*

Hey, does anyone manufacturer 'straighter/more efficient' replacement piping for the SMIC?


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_Hey, does anyone manufacturer 'straighter/more efficient' replacement piping for the SMIC?









many companies make a replacement lower pipe (pancake): ABD, Neuspeed, Forced Performance (no longer), Alamo Motorsports, etc.
The upper pipe (hose) may be available in a Samco hose kit for the New Beetle, but not sure if that kit came out (that includes the upper intercooler hose). Samco does have the upper hoses for the GTI/Jetta -- but they are different.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (2naFish)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2naFish* »_does apr provide the upper support bar with there intercooler? 

APR includes a modified steel bumper that has been reinforced w/ the FMIC installed for the GTI/Jetta.

_Quote, originally posted by *2naFish* »_
and do all of thes fmic come with piping? 

depends if it is a kit specific for the car, or just merely the core w/ end tanks (will say)


_Quote, originally posted by *2naFish* »_
does the piping mean we cant keep the engine cover on?

depends on the kit and routing of the piping chosen. 

_Quote, originally posted by *2naFish* »_
is it possible to do this with stock beetle bumper (not turbo s) and retain or relocate fog lights?

sure. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I have seen a car with it done before on the standard bumper.


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## vdubCorrado (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*

not sure if you have access to a welder but buy a bunch of bends and have a welder handy it's really not that hard to make intercooler piping, or atleast a template so you can have some made by someone cheaper cause you did all of the hard work...


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## Fixxxer (Nov 15, 2002)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*









I'm having one of my dumb days. Anybody wanna tell me that style of BBS wheel? It's very, veery hot! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## '02 Turbo S (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Fixxxer)*

WTF???


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Fixxxer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fixxxer* »_
I'm having one of my dumb days. Anybody wanna tell me that style of BBS wheel? It's very, veery hot! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










the link is still on the front page.... 
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman...shtml
they're BBS RG-R's


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? ('02 Turbo S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *’02 Turbo S* »_WTF???


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## Lorem (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
the link is still on the front page.... 
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman...shtml
they're BBS RG-R's

What a nice guy!


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (Lorem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lorem* »_
What a nice guy!









ahaha


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: EVO FMIC in NB? (gt2437)*

should of told him they are BBS hanabis from thailand


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