# FYI - 2005.5-2007 Timing Chain Issues



## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

1. The upper tensioner wears prematurely causing the chain to stretch and hit the upper casing causing the signature sound of marbles in a tin can. 

2. Replacement is typically limited to just the upper chain, guides, tensioner (redesigned), and gaskets. 

Now for the key fact: 

REPLACEMENT OF THE UPPER TIMING CHAIN DOES NOT REQUIRE REMOVAL OF THE ENGINE OR TRANSMISSION. 

Labor is typically 3 hours and parts are under $300. 

Thoughts?


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Anyone that i have talked to that knows about this issue says the same thing. It is very rarely the lower and the upper can be done for about 750 in a shop.


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

DerekH said:


> Anyone that i have talked to that knows about this issue says the same thing. It is very rarely the lower and the upper can be done for about 750 in a shop.


 :beer: 

Looking through the forums, a lot of people don't seem to realize this. :face palm:


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## truwagen (Jun 14, 2007)

This is good info. Wonder why most seem to get the whole thing swapped.


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

trudub said:


> This is good info. Wonder why most seem to get the whole thing swapped.


 Its probably because thats what dealerships automatically assume. Luckily my best friend owns a VW dealership, so I found out the truth. A few other local dealerships were wanting $1600 up to almost $3000. :sly: 

Thought y'all would like to know. If they insist on both chains being replaced, ask them to show you. :beer:


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## aquino (Mar 12, 2007)

Awesome contribution. Part numbers for the above mentioned should be listed. Maybe FAQ/DIY added?


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## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

Anyone know how often this could happen or if it's a common issue?

Is it possible to remove the side of the engine without pulling it out?


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

My guy was saying he has done the upper as early as 80k km. You can only get to the upper chain with the engine in.


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## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

Wow. I really hope this is not a common issue.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

Geez VW, you still can't get this right? My 98 Vr6 had this same issue, Thats when the engine had a longer warranty, they fixed it for free.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

chadone said:


> Wow. I really hope this is not a common issue.


 He also said he does at least one a month.


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## silver golf (Feb 4, 2011)

mine has 121k miles on it so do i need to change it ?


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## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

silver golf said:


> mine has 121k miles on it so do i need to change it ?


 Not unless your hearing the noise and it's broken.


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## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> He also said he does at least one a month.


 That really sucks. Future DIY for someone hahahahaha


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

chadone said:


> That really sucks. Future DIY for someone hahahahaha


 Unfortunately DIYing it is pretty impractical because you need 300 bucks worth of cam lockers and a crank locker that i couldn't tell you the price of. for a job you'll only do once.


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

Agreed, Its important to remember to, that 1 people generally only post negative things on forums. I.e "my car is broke, what do i do" Rarely do you hear, "I just 100k and no problems" 

Issue does seem to be one that quite a few people are having, but luckily its under $800, and is a one time thing. My old truck used to go through timing chains like I go through women; that gets costly. 

I think we should upload a video or 2 of what it sounds like, so people can know exactly what to look for.


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

aquino said:


> Awesome contribution. Part numbers for the above mentioned should be listed. Maybe FAQ/DIY added?


 Ill grab the part numbers this weekend,


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## truwagen (Jun 14, 2007)

bcplayer07 said:


> I think we should upload a video or 2 of what it sounds like, so people can know exactly what to look for.


 this would be very helpful for a lot of people.


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## kitten_puncher (Apr 5, 2012)

youtube'd it for a couple samples ...here's a couple vids below 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1rUZo0dG0Y 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TgW53YvLqA 

hope it helps :beer: 

grant it from my little knowledge of the issue these seem to be more extreme samples, but you should hear some variation of a ticking coming from the areas the camera angles focus on.


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## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks guys. Definitely not a great sound.


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

I have a 2007 rabbit that I bought in Jan of 07....I have just under 100k miles on it and the engine still runs great with no weird timing chain noises. 

Thanks to the OP for posting this. I was considering to buy all new chains/guides/seals. I didn't even think to look if anything could be replaced with the drivetrain still installed. I'll def keep this in mind as an option very soon!


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## tnerb (Jun 2, 2006)

*2006 with 140k ...engine replaced*

My timing chain started getting noisy, took it to my local VW shop for confirmation. 
Figured I should at least try my luck at getting VW Canada to help out since this is my second VW and my parents have owned at least 1 since the late 70s.

Car was driven by my mechanic to the VW dealership. Dealership confirmed the problem. VW canada only offered 1000$ off a new VW, not much help at all.

Figured I'd just get it back to my shop as it would only be ~800$ instead of 1300$ the stealership wanted. 

Dealership told me the car wasn't drivable (figured it was just them being cautious) so I arranged for a tow truck to take the car back to the mechanics (2-3 km away). 

Mechanic pulled the head cover and found 4 bent valves! So obviously something happened at the dealership! Complained to the dealership, they claimed they pushed the car in an out of their bay.... After much discussion with VW Canada the rep I spoke with told me that "VW Canada is not responsible for the workmanship of dealerships", I would have to deal with them directly... not sure what exactly VW Customer Care does. :banghead:

Mechanic recommended an engine swap instead of the labour to fix the bent valves and any collateral damage. Engine was 1000$ CDN, + 1600$ in labour... not very happy with VW.

Considering my loaner car was my mothers 97 jetta 2.0 with 270,000km. My brother has a 95 golf 2.0 with 320,000km and my sister has my father's old 2001 Jetta TDI with 500,000+ km (my father replaced it with a 2011 Jetta TDI), I am very disappointed with the 2.5l reliability. I bought the 2.5 thinking that the timing chain was a reliability improvement over a timing belt... boy was I wrong. TDI or 2.0T for my next VW... if I don't switch to something else (subaru???)


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## PhAyzoN (Nov 29, 2010)

kitten_puncher said:


> youtube'd it for a couple samples ...here's a couple vids below
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1rUZo0dG0Y
> 
> ...


Uh oh... That's kind of what mine sounds like (07, just hit 50K today). Maybe not that extreme, but it could just be the camera used. However, I don't think it sounds different than when I bought it with 28K miles.

Does someone have a vid of what a good one sounds like?


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

Riddle me this...when the tensioner starts going bad just how loud is the sound? Is it louder than the normal valvetrain noise on the 2.5? 

Truthfully I've been hearing some noise from the upper timing chain area for the last 5-10k miles but I can't say for sure if it has been there before that. I had the car in for an oil seal, oil housing, and water pump maybe 3-4k ago. While they had the car I had them go through the entire car with a fine tooth comb and it came away with a clean bill of health. Still, I'm getting really paranoid now that I am at the end of my extended warranty. 

Here is a short cell phone vid. You can hear the timing chain noise more towards the last half. It isn't horribly loud...about the same volume as the valve train if not maybe a tiny bit louder. 

http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e362/PhocusZX3/?action=view&current=VIDEO0065.mp4


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

add this to your oil...

http://www.amazon.com/LubroMoly-MoS...7992&sr=8-1&keywords=lubro+moly+anti+friction

it should help quite down the MOTOR noises (valvetrain and such)..

in my guesstimate, if there is still noise, its not the motor.. it could be the chain.


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

Apparently it was me being paranoid. Had a tech look at it who assured me what I was hearing is normal.


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

A1an said:


> Riddle me this...when the tensioner starts going bad just how loud is the sound? Is it louder than the normal valvetrain noise on the 2.5?
> 
> Truthfully I've been hearing some noise from the upper timing chain area for the last 5-10k miles but I can't say for sure if it has been there before that. I had the car in for an oil seal, oil housing, and water pump maybe 3-4k ago. While they had the car I had them go through the entire car with a fine tooth comb and it came away with a clean bill of health. Still, I'm getting really paranoid now that I am at the end of my extended warranty.
> 
> ...


Sounds pretty normal to me; probably just valvetrain noise or injector noise or both.

So far, it seems there's a decent number of people with '05.5-07s that have chain issues; what there isn't a lot of is information on here about which parts exactly fail and in what fashion. Someone did a DIY recently in a full chain job, but I'm not sure what he used for the cam/crank locks, etc. OP's info is great if, in fact, you can fix noisy chains by simply re-doing the upper one.


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

Anybody know if it's worth preemptively replacing the timing chain tensioner to prevent any jumping in the first place?


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

classicjetta said:


> Anybody know if it's worth preemptively replacing the timing chain tensioner to prevent any jumping in the first place?


Its worth replaceing it, shortly after you hear the chain starting to go bad. $700 for the upperchain, or you will need a new motor. Not to mention the value you will lose on your car with having a motor that is not the original.


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

mhjett said:


> Sounds pretty normal to me; probably just valve train noise or injector noise or both.
> 
> So far, it seems there's a decent number of people with '05.5-07s that have chain issues; what there isn't a lot of is information on here about which parts exactly fail and in what fashion. Someone did a DIY recently in a full chain job, but I'm not sure what he used for the cam/crank locks, etc. OP's info is great if, in fact, you can fix noisy chains by simply re-doing the upper one.


A low growling noise and marbles are the indicators of the a upper timing chain problem. It is caused by the upper chain guides wearing down and bending slightly. This causes the chain to stretch, hit the metal casing of the timming chain, thus creating the marble sound. 

While the 2.5s are typically noisy, there is not alot of "Depth" to the sound. while when the chain is going out, there is depth to the chain noise. 

lastly, you ECU will throw a code when the chain is stretched. however not a CEL, intill near the very end. Typically it will be a cam adjustment forward code. 

Hope that helps.


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## truwagen (Jun 14, 2007)

Any engine gurus here know if there's something else (e.g., timing?) that can be logged with vagcom that might indicate a stretched or stretching timing chain? Just brainstorming here...


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

trudub said:


> Any engine gurus here know if there's something else (e.g., timing?) that can be logged with vagcom that might indicate a stretched or stretching timing chain? Just brainstorming here...


 The chains are not really stretching. The chain guides are wearing and losing tension causing the chains to slack. It is the guides that are the problem, at least that was the issue with the Vr6.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

vwbrvr6 said:


> The chains are not really stretching. The chain guides are wearing and losing tension causing the chains to slack. It is the guides that are the problem, at least that was the issue with the Vr6.


 To my knowledge its the same issue with the 2.5


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

we just did one in the shop yesterday. 
noise happened a few times but not consistant. had a code ONCE for cam timing. 
we had the customer tow the car in. 
dealer wanted $4200 to fix it!!!!!!!! 

the chains do NOT strech. the tensioners wear and lose oil pressure, the chanis CAN skip on the cam gears at that point. 

also a note....if you rotate the motor AT ALL backwards...the chains WILL skip over the gears and be out of time. we did it when the motor was open JUST to check and see if the internet myth was true...it is 100% true. 

the tensioners are NOT racketing like the R32 or VR6, where if they lose pressure they don't get slack. 

we upgraded to the newer year numbers and replaced EVERYTHING in there(but the cam gears-not needed) 

motor was saved, new parts are in and working great. no more noises. no more codes....and NO $4200 bill at the dealer!


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> ...
> 
> also a note....if you rotate the motor AT ALL backwards...the chains WILL skip over the gears and be out of time. we did it when the motor was open JUST to check and see if the internet myth was true...it is 100% true.
> 
> ...


 This is interesting - there was a post either in here or the MKV forum from a guy who's son's car died and he tried to push start it and somehow the engine apparently got spun backwards and tweaked his timing. The OP questioned whether it was a timing chain failure but it came out that it was more likely due to the push starting than to any parts failure.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

dave(head tech) did it to see what would happen...it skipped. 
then he showed me....skipped again. 
proved it in person to me!


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> motor was saved, new parts are in and working great. no more noises. no more codes....and NO $4200 bill at the dealer!


 What was the bill?


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## ian254 (Aug 22, 2010)

I have a question about the timing chain tensioner. Is there any way it can be replaced with the post 2008 tensioner using the original chain? What I am getting at is can the upper tensioner be replaced without removing the chain?


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## Hung2low (Sep 14, 2011)

So are u saying I can just get the upper tensioners replaced?


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

Technically its possible just to replace the tensioner, but good luck finding someone with the cam lockers whose going to just replace the tensioner. :facepalm: 

Cough up the extra $200 for the chain and the few other parts, and call it a day. :beer:


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## ian254 (Aug 22, 2010)

Do you really need to lock the cam if you aren't removing the chain? I guess really the question is can it be done without removing really anything other then the tensioner and guides?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

you MUST remove the chains to do the tensioners. and you can NOT do the chains without the cam tool.. impossible. 

why cheap out? do it right and your safe and done. 

We replace EVERYTHING in there...2 chains, tenioners, guids, rear main seal, coolant seals, coolant flush, oil change, sealer cleaner etc 
$1699 parts and labor. 
dealer was $2800 crazy....


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

Good to know what a reasonable shop charges.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

customer got the car towed in here form the dealer. they told me the dealer said "you had a noise, and a cam timing code. you need a $4500-5000 repair to fix it." 

they did have a noise ONCE on start up, which is the start of the issue and a cam code. but the car started and had no noise after 5 seconds. we did the chanisn and all...NO noise, no code, no damage, no $4500-5000 bill. 

so if you hear the noise once..STOP, get it towed and fixed OR you will get a bigger build. and the new parts are the udated parts and you'll be ok for a long time.


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

mhjett said:


> This is interesting - there was a post either in here or the MKV forum from a guy who's son's car died and he tried to push start it and somehow the engine apparently got spun backwards and tweaked his timing. The OP questioned whether it was a timing chain failure but it came out that it was more likely due to the push starting than to any parts failure.


 I remember the thread and I think that car rolled backwards down a hill when they tried to push start, causing the problem. 





nothing-leaves-stock said:


> customer got the car towed in here form the dealer. they told me the dealer said "you had a noise, and a cam timing code. you need a $4500-5000 repair to fix it."
> 
> they did have a noise ONCE on start up, which is the start of the issue and a cam code. but the car started and had no noise after 5 seconds. we did the chanisn and all...NO noise, no code, no damage, no $4500-5000 bill.
> 
> so if you hear the noise once..STOP, get it towed and fixed OR you will get a bigger build. and the new parts are the udated parts and you'll be ok for a long time.


 Too bad you guys aren't down here in FL. I have a hard time trusting some of the european shops in my area.


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## truwagen (Jun 14, 2007)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> you MUST remove the chains to do the tensioners. and you can NOT do the chains without the cam tool.. impossible.
> 
> why cheap out? do it right and your safe and done.
> 
> ...


 The OP says that only the upper chain/tensioners/guides need replaced. Sounds like you replaced both upper and lower chains (and did you pull the engine)? Curious to hear your thoughts on just replacing the upper chain and associated hardware.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

why would you cheap out and only fix ONE part of the issue? the lower tensioner is the SAME design as the upper...so it can do the SAME issue. if we are doing a 2.5L chain job...we are doing EVERY part in there, once and done and SAFE and RIGHT with the newer parts 

pull the trans to do the job NOT the motor.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

A1an said:


> Too bad you guys aren't down here in FL. I have a hard time trusting some of the european shops in my area.


 lol, if you ever need any help, let me know. 

i know a couple of shops in tampa, gainesville, orlando, lakeland and the south...


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## VAGMeister (Sep 7, 2005)

Are all 200.5-2007 models susceptible to this timing chain issue? From my observation from on this technical forum, the main affected model is the Jetta. Has this happened to anyone with a Rabbit?


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## Shtbox (Nov 27, 2010)

*FV-QR*

quick question. when this cam code comes up, does it illuminate the CEL at all? or is the code stored with no CEL?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

cam code will throw a CEL. 
i have only done this on a jetta not sure on the rabbit...nor know why there would be a differnce


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

A1an said:


> I remember the thread and I think that car rolled backwards down a hill when they tried to push start, causing the problem.


 Now that you mention it, I think you're right. Can't remember what year the car was. 



VAGMeister said:


> Are all 200.5-2007 models susceptible to this timing chain issue? From my observation from on this technical forum, the main affected model is the Jetta. Has this happened to anyone with a Rabbit?


 I don't think there's any difference. I've read of issues with both early Rabbits and early Jettas.


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

Doubt it would be segregated to one single model...motors came from the same assembly line in Mexico despite the Rabbit being assembled in German.


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

The early 2.0t FSI had 2 possible cams to drive the HPFP, an A and B spec. The only way to verify the cam installed is to remove a cover and visually inspect it. 

Is there to tell with any serial numbers if the timing chain tensioners/guides installed on the 2.5 could be the ones prone to failure? 

is there a visual difference if you were to remove the upper timing cover?


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## VAGMeister (Sep 7, 2005)

A1an said:


> Doubt it would be segregated to one single model...motors came from the same assembly line in Mexico despite the Rabbit being assembled in German.


 My Rabbit's window sticker says the engine was made in Germany. I have been lurking this technical forum for a while and have seen nothing but Jetta experiences. Furthermore, a good friend of mine in a shop foreman at a VW dealership in SoCal and he has only seen Jettas and New Beetles come in for this code. Probably because there are a lot more Jettas on the road.


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

VAGMeister said:


> My Rabbit's window sticker says the engine was made in Germany. I have been lurking this technical forum for a while and have seen nothing but Jetta experiences. Furthermore, a good friend of mine in a shop foreman at a VW dealership in SoCal and he has only seen Jettas and New Beetles come in for this code. Probably because there are a lot more Jettas on the road.


 I'm not sure where the Jetta engines were built. Was the Rabbit also built in Puebla or did it come from Brazil? Come to think of it I can't say whether I've ever heard of anybody with early Rabbit having chain issues.


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## Trua (Apr 10, 2007)

I believe that the engine in my rabbit came from Mexico and the transmission from Argentina. The rabbits are made in Wolfsburg Germany.


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## DUSlider (Nov 15, 2007)

The Jetta outsold the Rabbit almost 10-1 in the model years affected. So I'm not surprised we haven't heard these issues with Rabbits yet.


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> why would you cheap out and only fix ONE part of the issue? the lower tensioner is the SAME design as the upper...so it can do the SAME issue. if we are doing a 2.5L chain job...we are doing EVERY part in there, once and done and SAFE and RIGHT with the newer parts
> 
> pull the trans to do the job NOT the motor.


 While it is obviously recommended to replace all o the seals, guides chains, tensioners etc. Not everyone has $1600 to fork out on it. 

The bottom tensionor is a similar design, but is not nearly as prone to failure as the upper tensioner. removing the transmission or motor is not needed to replace the upper chain, guides, tensioner and seals. What this mean for us, is that; if you starting to hear noise, and like me drive over 1000 miles a week. you can get your upper chain fixed, and then later get the lower chain fixed. for the average person this is a much more logical approach. When know you like to "leave nothing stock" "and to just replace it all" but If it isn't broke, or isn't failing. Why waste your money.


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## Trua (Apr 10, 2007)

My original motor started to make a weird sound coming from the chain area. It had 104k on the engine. The current motor that I have now has 44k on it and it runs smoother


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

Trua said:


> My original motor started to make a weird sound coming from the chain area. It had 104k on the engine. The current motor that I have now has 44k on it and it runs smoother


 Cool Story Bro


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## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> add this to your oil...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/LubroMoly-MoS...7992&sr=8-1&keywords=lubro+moly+anti+friction
> 
> ...


I Tried this stuff and in my opinion it reduces the noise the 2.5l motor produces. I honestly thought that i encountered this problem because my engine made a weird noise, almost like a slapping noise, but when i poured a bottle of the MoS2 it went away. Definitely recommend this stuff. Knock on wood this never happens to me, but due to my recent panic attack about this chain/tensioner problem i've come across something interesting in my research. I'll try to find the link and post up here, but there was another dubber who ran across this problem and instead of replacing it with a newer model 2.5l he replaced it with a 3.2lv6, i think its the r32 motor but it had audi badges on it. that seems like an awesome engine swap. Speaking of engine swaps, anyone know if its plausible to swap 2.0T for the 2.5l?


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## PhAyzoN (Nov 29, 2010)

Schwarz_Jetta said:


> Speaking of engine swaps, anyone know if its plausible to swap 2.0T for the 2.5l?


I don't see why not, the GLI and GTI are the 2.0T flavors of our 2.5L Jettas and Rabbits.


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## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

PhAyzoN said:


> I don't see why not, the GLI and GTI are the 2.0T flavors of our 2.5L Jettas and Rabbits.


I agree, however i've read on different forums that its not easy to do because the wiring harnesses are different.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

Schwarz_Jetta said:


> I Tried this stuff and in my opinion it reduces the noise the 2.5l motor produces. I honestly thought that i encountered this problem because my engine made a weird noise, almost like a slapping noise, but when i poured a bottle of the MoS2 it went away. Definitely recommend this stuff.


MoS2 is some good stuff, i use it as well in my motor.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

With all respect to those that can fix the problem for $1,500-$2,000, I had 92K miles on mine and bought an '08 engine with 17K on it. Spent $1,600 including tools and rental hoist. I am glad I did it that way. No issues since......


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## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

alwaysdutch said:


> With all respect to those that can fix the problem for $1,500-$2,000, I had 92K miles on mine and bought an '08 engine with 17K on it. Spent $1,600 including tools and rental hoist. I am glad I did it that way. No issues since......


Hey dutch, when you swapped your motor which engine model did you go with CBTA or CBUA? I know there shouldn't be much of a difference but when i tryed running a part search at a local wrecker the CBTA returned results for 08+ models, but when i ran the CBUA it returned results with 07+ models. I know they switched the motor midway through the 07 years from the BGP and BGQ to either the CBTA or CBUA. Regardless though i think so long as its the CBTA or CBUA models the tensioner issue should be fixed right?

:wave:


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## Champ6 (Dec 29, 2005)

*And my saga...*

This is from a post on another forum, but fits well here. This is out 2005.5 Jetta

As far as the 2.5: I probably won't keep it long. It's a mystery in many
regards. It was a VW CPO car with 48,000 miles on it when we bought it, and a 24
mo 24,000 mile bmper to bumper CPO warranty. And we used the warranty a lot,
from damaged driver door wiring, secondary air pump, some other emmissions thing
that I've forgotten, control arm bushings, odd rattles, and leaking AC.

Because we thought early on that it might be a maintenance hog, we decided to
pay VW to do the routine stuff including oil changes so there could be no doubt
that it was done and with VW approved oil. That may have saved our bacon.

28 days out of warranty, my wife was driving along when the timing jumped. Just
going slowly on a residential road, and it quits and won't restart. She's not a
blonde, and is very aware of gauges and odd sounds. She heard nothing prior to
it stopping, but when she called me, she said it sounded odd cranking with a
light ticking too. That of course was a few valves banging on the piston crowns.

Now just 3 days earlier, I had changed the oil using Liqui Moly and a Mann
filter. Ironically, I also had taken a sample of the old oil and sent it to
Blackstone Labs for analysis. When the results came back, it showed excessive
iron and chromium. They indicated this is usually from poorly wearing rings and
cylinders. Huh? So knowing that, I had VW save all the parts for me, so I could
see if I saw anything that would account for that. I saw nothing and took
everything to an independent VW mechanic, who also saw nothing that indicated
why it jumped timing, and nothing in those parts that would cause excessive iron
or chromium to be in the oil.

The dealer had no explaination as to why the engine jumped timing.This dealer
had only seen one other 2.5 do this, and it had been rattling long before it
quit. All my chain guides were in good condition, the tensioner appeared to be
working correctly, nothing looked wrong. The machine shop doing the head work
determined that when the valves bent, it made some of the guides out of round,
and not even VW could get new guides, just a new $3,100 head. That was a no go
for us and a used head was installed.

As far as cost: The initial estimates were from $2,800 to nearly $5,000. We had
a good going around with VWoA, and they covered $2,000 in parts (even the used
head with some help of the dealer), probably because my wife has had nothing but VW's since 1967, and myself, mostly VW's since 1990. Our final out-of-pocket was just under
$1,400.

So what happened? I don't know. Will we keep the car? We like it, but now have
our doubts about long term reliability, so in the next year or so we will
probably trade it. And not likely on another VW.


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## Finkle56 (Feb 21, 2010)

Mine went, threw a code that day. 

VW here in Canada offered money to buy the car back and offered me a re finance on a newer model ( increased payments and another 2 years back on the finance) I asked for the engine to be replaced or some of the cost to be covered and they said no. Turns out to get a dealership to replace the engine or do the work was between 5000 to 10000 ( higher was for a refurb certified engine)

Ended up at a local dealer, he found me a 2008 engine with 70K on it and put it in for 3000 total. No issues so far but I listen for the sound at every oil check and changes. That way i am staying on top of it and I, fingers crossed, won't have this happen anytime soon. 

Still wondering if the newer engine has the fix though


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

Schwarz_Jetta said:


> Hey dutch, when you swapped your motor which engine model did you go with CBTA or CBUA? I know there shouldn't be much of a difference but when i tryed running a part search at a local wrecker the CBTA returned results for 08+ models, but when i ran the CBUA it returned results with 07+ models. I know they switched the motor midway through the 07 years from the BGP and BGQ to either the CBTA or CBUA. Regardless though i think so long as its the CBTA or CBUA models the tensioner issue should be fixed right?
> 
> :wave:


I bought a CBTA engine for $1,000 with 17K on it, including harness, ECU and all sensors.....


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

alwaysdutch said:


> I bought a CBTA engine for $1,000 with 17K on it, including harness, ECU and all sensors.....


That's one hell of a deal!


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## n3gh (Dec 12, 2013)

*Upper Chair Replacement Procedure*

All,

This has been a great thread. Everyonse contributions is greatly appreciated.
I am in the position of having the deal with a 2005 with missfire codes and the dreaded upper chain noise.
I have already managed to get the timing chain cover removed and prepared to remove valve cover and start the crank TDC actions.

This leads me to 2 questions:

Does anyone have a set of CAM clamps and Crank pin I could buy used?
Does anyone have a detailed procedure how to best replace the Chain and Tensioners in regards to timing and torque?

Thanks to all who respond.

George


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

IE sells the cam locks for fairly cheap i think. just a thought.


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## n3gh (Dec 12, 2013)

*CAM Locks cheap*



DerekH said:


> IE sells the cam locks for fairly cheap i think. just a thought.


Sorry Derek, who is IE?


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

n3gh said:


> Sorry Derek, who is IE?


http://www.performancebyie.com/integrated-engineering-billet-cam-locking-tool-for-2-5l-5-cylinder


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

Thought I would give an update regarding my timing chain. 

I have a 2007 (built in late 2006) MKV Jetta. I have 286,000 Miles on it and climbing quickly. I still have the original chain and tensioner. I drive mostly highway, but I also autocross on the weekends. 

Nothing other than regular maintenance, Car has been problem free, transmission still holding strong as well. 

Hope that's helpful to somebody.


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

bcplayer07 said:


> Thought I would give an update regarding my timing chain.
> 
> I have a 2007 (built in late 2006) MKV Jetta. I have 286,000 Miles on it and climbing quickly. I still have the original chain and tensioner. I drive mostly highway, but I also autocross on the weekends.
> 
> ...


And your car is turbo?


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## bcplayer07 (Oct 6, 2011)

killerbunny said:


> And your car is turbo?


Yes it is turbo. C2 Turbo kit was added around 140,000 miles. I commute almost 120 miles each way, every day for work. I commute and live right off of the highway. The only time the motor gets strained is when I race, which I started 2 years ago. Preventative maintenance is key.


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## n3gh (Dec 12, 2013)

*Cam Sprocket bolt*



n3gh said:


> All,
> 
> This has been a great thread. Everyonse contributions is greatly appreciated.
> I am in the position of having the deal with a 2005 with missfire codes and the dreaded upper chain noise.
> ...



As soon as the CAM Bar is delivered I am set and ready to start the work.
Which leads me to another question,. The Cam Sprocket bolt is a triple square inside style.
I wonder if anyone knows the size? I am thinking it is 14 mm but the local stores only carry up to 12 mm.
Can someone confirm so I know what to order? 
Thanks to all and Merry Christmas!

George


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## n3gh (Dec 12, 2013)

*JOB Done!*



n3gh said:


> As soon as the CAM Bar is delivered I am set and ready to start the work.
> Which leads me to another question,. The Cam Sprocket bolt is a triple square inside style.
> I wonder if anyone knows the size? I am thinking it is 14 mm but the local stores only carry up to 12 mm.
> Can someone confirm so I know what to order?
> ...


Thanks to everyone who provided information on this job.
I finished up this up yesterday and the engine is running smooth and with 70 miles on it no codes.

So now I have a cam bracket with bolts, Engine crank pin, and a 14mm triple square bit for sale.
Good condition and only used once. Cost me $141 plus shipping. I would would offer these to anyone in need for $90 plus shipping.
Let me know and I can send pictures.
Thanks again and Happy New Year!

George


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## raswails (Feb 12, 2012)

Did you ever sell your tools?


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