# oneFIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III*

These are pictures of pictures at Treffen today. The kit you see is preproduction, but the final kit should look identical, only with polished metal. Rich and Katie wouldn't give out a possible price, or performance numbers, but Katie is optimistic that it will put down more power than APR III. Expect the price to be competitive...
If you guys want more pictures from Treffen, check my thread in the MKIV forum!








































*EDIT - DIRECT ALL QUESTIONS TO RICH AND/OR KATIE at Dubwerks, please do not IM me, I know very little about this kit and have nothing to do with its development. They are both on Vortex, and their contact info can be found at http://www.dubwerks.com.

They are an excellent tuning shop - run a search for their name and all you will hear is positive things. This kit should be AWESOME!*




_Modified by VarLordahl at 2:29 AM 8-24-2003_


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## Abdel (Feb 21, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

wow







Manifold is awesome..


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## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Abdel)*

Holy ****.... This kit is for real... Maybe I'll have to wait on my setup and do this.
EDIT: whats the turbo specs, and what wastegate is that???? Also, any info on injectors, inlet piping, injectors, fuel pump, etc. Like anything else they included, but you dont have pics of? 


_Modified by FrankiEBoneZ at 2:38 AM 8-24-2003_


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## evilpat (Feb 26, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Abdel)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif keep the info coming.


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (FrankiEBoneZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FrankiEBoneZ* »_Holy ****.... This kit is for real... Maybe I'll have to wait on my setup and do this.
EDIT: whats the turbo specs, and what wastegate is that???? Also, any info on injectors, inlet piping, injectors, fuel pump, etc. Like anything else they included, but you dont have pics of? 

_Modified by FrankiEBoneZ at 2:38 AM 8-24-2003_

I'm not quite sure to be honest, I'm a VR6 guy and when I was over at the Dubwerks booth buying new cams I saw these pictures, so I snapped pictures of the pictures.
DIRECT ALL QUESTIONS TO RICH AND/OR KATIE. They are both on Vortex, and their contact info can be found at http://www.dubwerks.com.

They are an excellent tuning shop - run a search for their name and all you will hear is positive things. This kit should be AWESOME!


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## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

wowsers


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## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (evilpat)*

wow!








I'm speakless..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Looks like my hopes of a custom kit might be nesscessary.....






















Atten: Mr. Lim and DubWerks
If a second test car is needed in addition to the DubWerks car, perhaps a AWD already running GIAC, I would gladly offer up my car. I live in SoCal, about 20 miles away from GIAC and am in Close Contact with Dynamic Racing Solutions of La Habra.
Will IM Katie for details.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (16vracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vracer* »_wowsers









yup yup


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## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (2001GTi18t)*


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## Jeckyll (Feb 24, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (LA Wolfsburg)*

Always glad to see more competition in this market!


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## NCR1.8T (Apr 29, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Jeckyll)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AXIS (Jan 15, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (NCR1.8T)*

Things are finally starting to go our way (GIAC owners) a reliable kit. Can't wait to see what its putting down when all is said and done.


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## milo (Feb 19, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (NCR1.8T)*

Looks gooooooooooooddddddddddddddd! When will it be out and how much? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (milo)*

looks nice so far. now the easy part, making it run reliably and have it make good power.


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## underPSI (Sep 6, 2000)

Isn't Innovative Turbo the mfg who made their manifold? looks very nice, although the APR boys can still claim inconel. I can see it now... tons of posts titled "APR or Dubwerks turbo kit?". This will be an endless debate. Hope the performance, quality of parts, and reliability are up to par with APR making this kit good competition to the market.


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## Cypher2k (Nov 23, 2000)

lets hope it gets to market soon.
That tubular header looks interesting. And the placement of turbo and wastegate is very inovative, looks like they are shooting to come very close to stock positioning for the intake and outlet side.... Direct bolt-in to stock hardware seems pretty likely..... New inlet boot, and maybe an extension down to the second rubber boot on the IC piping?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by Cypher2k at 7:59 AM 8-24-2003_


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## schtebie (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (Cypher2k)*









you can even keep a CAI with this kit!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (schtebie)*

Yeah this is going to open up ton's of posts by newbies....Which stage 3 is better?
Only thing I don't like is the use of what looks like a Deltagate Wastegate.


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## nerdhotrod (Sep 23, 2002)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bug_Power* »_Yeah this is going to open up ton's of posts by newbies....Which stage 3 is better?
Only thing I don't like is the use of what looks like a Deltagate Wastegate.

the tial 35 should fit right in there. I wish some one would make a manifold that you could use the 40mm with.... just a thought for Dubwerks.
the kit looks like its going to be good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTbuzz (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (nerdhotrod)*

this is awesome stuff. Now all I need is about 5 grand...


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (GTbuzz)*

Looks Good!








That wastegate design could be more symetrical for flow though.


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## Cypher2k (Nov 23, 2000)

*Re: (gt2437)*

may not have been much choice. Dont forget they managed to cram a tubular manifold, a turbo AND an external wastegate into a reletively confined space.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (Cypher2k)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cypher2k* »_may not have been much choice. Dont forget they managed to cram a tubular manifold, a turbo AND an external wastegate into a reletively confined space.


very true. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Mike0105 (Dec 31, 1999)

*Re: (gt2437)*








More choices thebetter...not a huge fan of the manifold but hey if it works it works
Mike


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## Blade (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (VWMike81)*

I just hope those welds don't crack. Other than that, that looks like a very stout kit.


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## chim-chim1.8t (Jul 8, 2003)

*Re: (Blade)*

looking good... i hope that kit spanks apr... i hope it is out by the time i am ready for my turbo upgrade.


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## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

other then the piping looking like a waterslide....









the kit looks sweet


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## lawrencetaylor50 (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

are those equal length?


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (roly)*

This is great! I'm very impressed that they've used a tubular manifold, while what someone else said, trying to keep the positioning close to stock and shoving all that in a small spot. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif This is excellent. I can't wait to hear some more info on this. And if this IS competitively priced with APR and produces higher numbers, I might just have to save up some extra cash and go for this instead of ATP's kit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

where will the charge air piping go? make a U-turn to the stock pancake pipe or next to the valve cover (airbox side)?


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## funkysole (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Seanathan`)*

im not really a big fan or apr so http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to dubwerks for making a dope ass kit so far, props on the manifold, will they just be selling the manifold by its self?


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## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

I can imagine dubwerk's message queue and mailbox about now. I am hoping they'll have a special page on their website that details everything very soon. I wonder if the GIAC software they will use will allow street and race settings, like GIAC's flipswitch technology. This setup could be what I have been looking for.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Super1.8T)*

Wow! V-band connections and all! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I wonder HOW competitive pricing will be on this? What do you guys think.......$3k-$3.5k? Looks like money well spent. Wonder what size? Looks like it might be bigger than a t3/t4. Lot's of potential!


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*

And let's not start knocking it about LAG! There's a cure for that you know........Try DOWNSHIFTING!


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (Cypher2k)*

I'm doing the same thing.


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## 18bora (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

I just hope all the coming soon kits come out before the 2.0T comes out,
Before everyone waiting on them to come out change their mind and wait for the 2.0T upgrade/swap.
Don't hate APR for their hard work, life is short, don't wait, enjoy it now.
Kits will sell based upon
*Reliability* 
*Power* 
*price* 
Order may vary from one person to another, and that's the reason people will choose one kit over another, it's all good.
Other that that it looks good, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , for the effort.


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## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Abdel)*

holy horn blower bat mang... put me down for some of that!!!


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## flanders (Apr 5, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (2KGTI-t)*

sweeeeeeeeet. Competition is always good! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_And let's not start knocking it about LAG! There's a cure for that you know........Try DOWNSHIFTING!









The tubular manifold will only help with spool time...


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## XSSIVE (Apr 30, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Adam20v)*

ok, im drooooling! tubular manifold..yes yes very sweet. about time someone is doing it the right way IMO! can't wait for more info specs and pics! this very well may end up on the future mod list!
-Mike


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## ReverendHorton (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (XSSIVE)*

definitely looks good. can't wait for more info... I wonder what the downpipe options will be? hope it will mate to a GHL somehow


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

That doen't look like a production kit, that's a one off firewall hitting custom setup. looks cool though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_That doen't look like a production kit, that's a one off firewall hitting custom setup. looks cool though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Hahaha, whats wrong? Worried that the Dubwerks kit is going to make more power on pump gas than your apr stg3 on race? Mr. "ooh Apr + Race Gas = Insane"







. Please... and yes it is a "production" kit, that from the looks of things many people will be landing on you with.


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## Mike0105 (Dec 31, 1999)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_That doen't look like a production kit, that's a one off firewall hitting custom setup. looks cool though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Always full of hate wolk's...can't accept that sometimes APR doesn't always have the latest and greatest?
Mike


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (Adam20v)*

Alright, the debates begin. This purpose of this kit is not to compete with the APR Stage III but to offer an alternative for the 1.8T market that offers GIAC Software. We have been working very hard on this kit. Yes, it will be a production kit, not a one off.. After Software tuning is done, the information on pricing and power numbers will be released. The turbo being used is an Airwerks S2 Turbo with upgraded compressor wheel, the wastegate is a Innovative MiniGate. This kit is on our test car, up and running and software tuning is under way. I appreciate all the interest and please lets try to keep this a friendly topic.


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## Marble (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_These are pictures of pictures at Treffen today. The kit you see is preproduction, but the final kit should look identical, only with polished metal. Rich and Katie wouldn't give out a possible price, or performance numbers, but Katie is optimistic that it will put down more power than APR III. Expect the price to be competitive...
If you guys want more pictures from Treffen, check my thread in the MKIV forum!








































*EDIT - DIRECT ALL QUESTIONS TO RICH AND/OR KATIE at Dubwerks, please do not IM me, I know very little about this kit and have nothing to do with its development. They are both on Vortex, and their contact info can be found at http://www.dubwerks.com.

They are an excellent tuning shop - run a search for their name and all you will hear is positive things. This kit should be AWESOME!*
_Modified by VarLordahl at 2:29 AM 8-24-2003_

Damn...exceeded bandwidth.








Did anyone save the pics? Can anyone post anything else. I missed out.


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## Marble (Nov 20, 2002)

Miss Katie...do _you_ have any pics?


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (ATXGTI)*

Sure...here are the originals.
































edit: I should have more pics to post up this week. Thanks again.


_Modified by [email protected] at 10:15 PM 8-24-2003_


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## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Alright, the debates begin. This purpose of this kit is not to compete with the APR Stage III but to offer an alternative for the 1.8T market that offers GIAC Software. We have been working very hard on this kit. Yes, it will be a production kit, not a one off.. After Software tuning is done, the information on pricing and power numbers will be released. The turbo being used is an Airwerks S2 Turbo with upgraded compressor wheel, the wastegate is a Innovative MiniGate. This kit is on our test car, up and running and software tuning is under way. I appreciate all the interest and please lets try to keep this a friendly topic.

so in your honest opinion when do you think this kit will be available ... I don't want you to commit to a date







but get a time frame +- 2 weeks if possible.
any chance it will be out before the end of november (hint hint my birthday







)


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## funkysole (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_And let's not start knocking it about LAG! There's a cure for that you know........Try DOWNSHIFTING!









what kind of lag are you talking about, lag at take off lag while crussing? you must specify cause lag while crussing can be cured by down shifting, but lag at take off cant. plus the lag on a t3-t4 is not as bad as it seems. quicker spoiling has its andantages and disadvantages. quick take off of no top end. then while your struggling at the top end you get blown away by the t3-t4 your racing. just cause you wanted the quicker take off. lag is not that big of an issue.







simply cured by a little NOS


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## hungalicious (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

One concern I read about was the potential of the manifold cracking over time. I know you are still testing but will this be a concern with the Dubwerks kit? Reliability is a key factor for many people. No one wants to be without a car especially if it's a daily driver.


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## BillyT. (Apr 17, 2003)

*Re: (hungalicious)*

I gotta get one of those manifolds...
um... for a friends car...








I just hope it fits.


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## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_That doen't look like a production kit, that's a one off firewall hitting custom setup. looks cool though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Bring the haters on...








So far, tubular manifold means better spool, got APR there. External wastegate is better for controlling the boost, got APR there. GIAC kicks ass... Screw APR there!
Whats the turbo specs??????????????????????????????????


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## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: (hungalicious)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hungalicious* »_One concern I read about was the potential of the manifold cracking over time.

Tubular = fixable







. Looking like its not for the faint of heart... I likie. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Marble (Nov 20, 2002)

Thanks Katie for the pics! I cannot wait to see the procduction kit and price! I may not be upgrading until the end of next year, but at least this gives me another option!
ROCK ON!


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## Prefekt (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: (ATXGTI)*

Kick ass! Anyone want to buy a slightly used ATP Stg2 Gen2 kit?


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*

Ok APR Haters, ya'll calm down now you hear.
I only made these three comments......
1. Lets not call it a kit, until its for sale to the general public.
2. That turbo look like it's almost rubbing the firewall, does it not?
3. The workmanship on the manifold looks great, very nice "custom" manifold could net big Hp.


_Modified by Wolk's Wagon at 3:56 PM 8-24-2003_


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (BillyT.)*

Billy Contact me I've got a manifold on the way hopefully. Should know by next week when it will be here. Not this manifold, but similar tube frame design.


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## durksterVR6 (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

I was going to buy a APR kit, but I wanted something that can actually be delivered this year.


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (durksterVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *durksterVR6* »_I was going to buy a APR kit, but I wanted something that can actually be delivered this year.









lol... I'm with this guy!!!


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## VWParts (Sep 22, 2000)

*Re: (Seanathan`)*

Finally something from GIAC !!!!!!






















Oh boy ... I am going to get my Stage 1+ A4 dynoed VERY soon ... it better put out the "honest 215/250" advertised on APR's website


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## funkysole (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FrankiEBoneZ* »_
Bring the haters on...








So far, tubular manifold means better spool, got APR there. External wastegate is better for controlling the boost, got APR there. GIAC kicks ass... Screw APR there!
Whats the turbo specs??????????????????????????????????

yes very true tubular manifolds are better not necessarily better spool but they are better and if they use thick enough tubing on the pipes then they should be fine and cast manifolds also do crack in due time so there is no crack proof manifold yet that Ive seen, but equal length manifold are not really necessary on a street car usually they're intended for race only but will work great on the street.


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## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Interesting that an Airwerks turbo is used and not a Garrett turbo. I thought everyone used Garrett turbos, but I am wrong







I am trying to locate info on the Airwerks S2 turbo, but it's not easy. From what I have read so far, Airwerks seems to be a division of Borg-Warner, and KKK is a branch/part of Borg-Warner.
From the Borg-Warner website:
"For street use, AirWerks will offer both K and S series turbochargers that produce 7 to 17 pounds of boost. But there’s more—lots more. The complete AirWerks line includes unique S series turbos capable of cranking out as much as 27 to 30 pounds of boost on a race-ready engine."
How far can the S2 turbo go? I am not sure. I am looking everywhere for information so I can compare it to the Garrett turbos I am so used to looking at. The Borg-Warner website is not that easy to navigate.
I sure hope the Dubwerks kit goes far. I have been waiting for something different, yet more effective and powerful than the 300hp mark that seems to be the market norm.
I wanted to go on the record and say I'll gladly pay for performance. Even if the kit is more expensive than the market norm, if it performs, I'll glady pay for it. Go Dubwerks!!!


_Modified by Super1.8T at 8:32 PM 8-24-2003_


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## Bora18t (Nov 16, 2001)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

I want more info on the Airwerks S2 turbo as well...anyone???








Katie, are there any ball-park figures as to how much this kit will be??


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## chim-chim1.8t (Jul 8, 2003)

*Re: (BillyT.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BillyT.* »_I gotta get one of those manifolds...
um... for a friends car...








I just hope it fits.

riiiiiight







a friends car.... sounds like someone misses his 1.8t and got another one.


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## Stewz-GTI (Feb 16, 1999)

Likewise, very little info on the S series. 
I am a little concearned about the fact they are using something "non-standard" if you could call it that. 
Might be an issue for getting replacement turbos or parts should something go a muk.
I like where the turbo is situated, nice an loud whoosh!!!


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## ECS Tuning-Tom (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: (durksterVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *durksterVR6* »_I was going to buy a APR kit, but I wanted something that can actually be delivered this year.









That can be arange, you just need to know who to call. 
Give us a call, we might even have some in stock tommorrow


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## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (ECS Tuning-Tom)*

Goodness . . . don't tempt me now . . . 
Still searching for Airwerks S2 turbo specs, but cannot find any.


_Modified by Super1.8T at 9:43 PM 8-24-2003_


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## Tybolltt (Sep 13, 2001)

Very pretty manifold.


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## deadguy (Apr 13, 2001)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tybolltt* »_









That header/manifold is just SCREAMING for a nice ceramic finish http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Blade (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FrankiEBoneZ* »_
Bring the haters on...








So far, tubular manifold means better spool, got APR there. External wastegate is better for controlling the boost, got APR there. GIAC kicks ass... Screw APR there!
Whats the turbo specs??????????????????????????????????

Who the *FREAK* cares, this is all about getting more kits out there for 1.8ts, so stop your *REDICULOUS* 3rd grade bickering. BTW, all kits have their faults. Equal length tubular welded manifolds will NEVER last as long as a cast piece since they are welded. The welds will crack, just a matter of time. Thats the only one that is obvious to me, but it will probably flow better than APRs unit and perform better....I am just letting everyone know there is never a perfect kit. I said it before and I will say it again, it looks like a very nice kit and no doubt it will lay down some *NICE* power. I can't wait until we get some dynos on that bad boy and that manifold is quite pretty.


_Modified by VWMike81 at 11:15 PM 8-24-2003_


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## GTbuzz (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (Blade)*

good thing I only REALLY need one kidney. Anyone looking to buy one? Used only 19 years.


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## joness0154 (Feb 20, 2003)

This kit is going to be awesome. Will be on my car by next summer if everything goes according to plan....
About the turbo, all I was told is that it is bigger than the GT-25 but just a little smaller than the GT-30r


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## scarywoody (Dec 3, 2000)

*Re: (Stewz-GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stewz-GTI* »_
I am a little concearned about the fact they are using something "non-standard" if you could call it that. 
Might be an issue for getting replacement turbos or parts should something go a muk.


I guess you haven't heard about the 2 year warranty...me either, but wouldn't that be sweet


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## Stewz-GTI (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (joness0154)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joness0154* »_This kit is going to be awesome. Will be on my car by next summer if everything goes according to plan....
About the turbo, all I was told is that it is bigger than the GT-25 but just a little smaller than the GT-30r


Gee, I guess that mean GT-28 maybe? Until I hear hard fact or find it on the net, it's K03 class.


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## dubmata (Dec 1, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_Interesting that an Airwerks turbo is used and not a Garrett turbo. I thought everyone used Garrett turbos, but I am wrong







I am trying to locate info on the Airwerks S2 turbo, but it's not easy. From what I have read so far, Airwerks seems to be a division of Borg-Warner, and KKK is a branch/part of Borg-Warner.
From the Borg-Warner website:
"For street use, AirWerks will offer both K and S series turbochargers that produce 7 to 17 pounds of boost. But there’s more—lots more. The complete AirWerks line includes unique S series turbos capable of cranking out as much as 27 to 30 pounds of boost on a race-ready engine."
How far can the S2 turbo go? I am not sure. I am looking everywhere for information so I can compare it to the Garrett turbos I am so used to looking at. The Borg-Warner website is not that easy to navigate.
I sure hope the Dubwerks kit goes far. I have been waiting for something different, yet more effective and powerful than the 300hp mark that seems to be the market norm.
I wanted to go on the record and say I'll gladly pay for performance. Even if the kit is more expensive than the market norm, if it performs, I'll glady pay for it. Go Dubwerks!!!

_Modified by Super1.8T at 8:32 PM 8-24-2003_

Are you sure this is an Airwerks product? The turbo says Schwitzer in bin bold letters so maybe it is closer to this particular turbo:
http://www.cbperformance.com/c...D=289


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bug_Power* »_Yeah this is going to open up ton's of posts by newbies....Which stage 3 is better?
Only thing I don't like is the use of what looks like a Deltagate Wastegate.

That is not a Deltagate. Looks like an ITS gate. Very high end!


----------



## Phantazm (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: (GTbuzz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTbuzz* »_good thing I only REALLY need one kidney. Anyone looking to buy one? Used only 19 years.

Now don't get banned for cross-posting on the wrong topic - try the classifieds!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 19, 2000)

*Re: (J. Moss)*

J Moss, what is an ITS gate and what makes it special?


----------



## Newspimp (Jul 28, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Innovative Turbo Systems Minigate
http://innovativeturbo.com/cgi...02080


----------



## Misano (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (Newspimp)*

This looks exactly like the new inovative turbo kit bring developed in Simi Valley theu even have the same red car. the kit will be offer by many different tuners under there own name


----------



## dbrowne1 (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

Katie-
Thanks for the info. If you have any or all of the following information, I'm guessing most of us would be interested in:
1. Estimated retail price
2. Dynos of the test vehicle
3. Availability of race gas programming
4. Timeframe for kit availability


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (dbrowne1)*

i think it is pretty. hopefully it makes nice power, and is 4k or less


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_
2. That turbo look like it's almost rubbing the firewall, does it not?


No actually it doesnt' looke like its anywhere near the fire wall, so we cant' read or look at pictures, or we're just an a$$.
If you actually look a second to look you would notice its a good 3-4 inches from the actual firewall. It is under the lip for the rain tray however common sense, which apparently some are lacking, would tell you that when the car accelerates it would squat back and away from that lip and into that huge cavity you ignored to look at for the sake of starting an arguement.


----------



## Binary Star (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (wolfsburg2)*

personally i really gotta give big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to my local shop for doing this







rich and katie >> u guys rock







.... can't wait till this kit comes... gotta start saving








EDIT: oh btw, if u guys need another project car let me know

















_Modified by JettaDude101 at 7:18 AM 8-25-2003_


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Blade)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blade* »_
Equal length tubular welded manifolds will NEVER last as long as a cast piece since they are welded. The welds will crack, just a matter of time. 

Before spouting off you may want to do a little more research. On a properly done manifold that happens to crack it is rarely the welds that let go first. Besides the important fact that on a properly done tubular manifold it will NOT crack. The idea that tubular manifolds and headers crack comes becuase its much easier for one off shops ot make tubular manifolds then it is to make a cast one, these usually are not made as well as they could be and tend to crack. You obviously have also not looked at even one stock cast 1.8t manifold as they are riddled with cracks. And not to mention the fact that its also just as easy to have a prone to cracking cast manifold if the incorrect nickel content is used and many other things. I also suggest that you do some research on porsche headers for example. Every aftermarket porsche setup is tubular steel and they almost never crack, these are cars that are raced regularlly on the weekends and still street driven. I have seen headers that were 15 years old been swapped between numerous engines in the same car and different cars for that matter, raced, street driven, raced/street driven, only thing that needed to be done was polish it and it looked like it was brand new, not to mention the fact that they support the turbo, are huge and heavy themselves and also are under the car so they actually get hit by stuff all the time.
This has nothing to do with apr vs dubwerks vs anyone it has to do with common sense.


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

Info from Treffen. 
I talked to Rich for a while about the kit. He was hoping for a September release I think. The kit will be complete (manifold, MAF housing, injectors, turbo, etc.). It sounded like they were going to use 38# or 42# injectors, undecided as of yet. The turbo was supposedly larger than a GT25 and smaller than a GT30. I asked about projected hp figures, and none were given. The kit looks really cool and Rich was friendly and cool to talk to. The pricing was stated to be "competitive" to the market. I inferred that APR was the market, so hopefully it will be lower than that. I think the kit is going to end up coming with a 2.5" modified TT DP, but I think they were uncertain about that as well. We'll see what happens on this one, but I told them if the programming was right people would be beating their doors down to get one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## funkysole (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: (gintaras)*









is that manifilod flange stainless? if it is then i think it might crack on those welds, i would of made it out of steel instead and welded them together with a steel rod instead of stainless cause when you weld stainless to stainless with a stainless rod it be comes brital, like on my down pipe i welded the steel flange to stainless with a steel rod and it turned out bitchen, but thats what i would of done.


----------



## Don R (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

I have to agree...It seems that they might have used 304 SS or 321 SS with purge welding. Keep in mind these welds might not be only fused but beveled butt-ups for a full penetration weld...It also seems that they have made a jig for next to perfect fittment. There is no question on these welds cracking if they are done properly.


----------



## skully_mcmulligan (Jul 20, 2003)

Purge. Anneal.


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_J Moss, what is an ITS gate and what makes it special? 

Their site seems to be under some construction.
The gate is made by Innovative Turbo Systems.
The diaphram is a roller type (does not pinch as it move),
The valves usually have a Hersheys kiss shape on the side that faces exhaust,
Very high flowing pocket for minumal boost creep...
And the group of people who work/own ITS are IMHO the best in the Biz.
Jeff


----------



## Electron Man (Sep 21, 1999)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

Nice looking turbo kit.
Those longer than stock or APR Inconel exhaust manifold runners will be letting quite a bit of the exhaust energy (what spools the turbo) out before it can be used. Loss of exhaust energy means a *later* spool point (higher in the rpm band) last time I checked. A ceramic coating would help, but add cost to the kit.
Tubular headers can be welded to take the punishment 1.8T owners dish out (and be crack free), but they are not cheap (check the price of headers for any 3.3L or 3.6L Porsche turbo







). 
I wonder if *this* header comes with a lifetime guarantee?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (Misano)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Misano* »_This looks exactly like the new inovative turbo kit bring developed in Simi Valley theu even have the same red car. the kit will be offer by many different tuners under there own name 

Well, I'm not sure how rumors get started and I've heard some pretty crazy ones about our kit so I guess I'll lay a few to rest right now. Rich, the owner here at dub werks, came up with an idea for a manifold, we wanted to created a 1.8T kit that we could offer to the public. We approached Innovative for their service to make this manifold come to life. These services are paid for, if you happened to see our Red GTI at Innovative, we brought it out to make sure everything about the manifold would fit properly, perhaps you noticed the front dub werks Euro plate and the rear Illinois License Plate. 
Noone has paid for anything on this kit to be created except for us, dub werks. This kit will not be available through any other tuners unless we decide to sell to those tuners, at which it would still hold the dub werks name. This is a dub werks kit, not an Innovative kit (the guys at Innovative have worked very hard with us to make this kit possible and we will also be using their turbo, wastegate, etc.) Everything else is supplied by us. 
Of course a kit is not complete without software, GIAC is creating the software for us. We want this kit to be complete and done properly so the car was brought to Innovative for the manifold and is at GIAC for the tuning of the software. 
We are happy that we have these two amazing companies that can offer services to us and make this kit happen for you. We have been working very hard on this project this summer and are very excited about releasing it.
A big thanks again to all who are interested!


----------



## Marble (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Hmm just one more question:
What ECU's will be able to take advantage of this kit?
Mine in particular = LP from an '03 GTI.
Thanks again Katie!


----------



## TreyS (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

If this kit is competivitly priced with other turbo systems on the market (like Honda) then APR has some serious competition.
$4k plus install, then clutch, LSD and extras is too much and a 60-90 day wait to boot.
If you guys can keep the price down and inventory high, the market for the 1.8T is yours. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by TreyS at 1:09 PM 8-25-2003_


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Katie, I just spoke to Rich. I will send you guys an email later today.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (ATXGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ATXGTI* »_Hmm just one more question:
What ECU's will be able to take advantage of this kit?
Mine in particular = LP from an '03 GTI.
Thanks again Katie!








Yes, the LP computer will be covered.


----------



## Blade (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
Before spouting off you may want to do a little more research. On a properly done manifold that happens to crack it is rarely the welds that let go first. Besides the important fact that on a properly done tubular manifold it will NOT crack. The idea that tubular manifolds and headers crack comes becuase its much easier for one off shops ot make tubular manifolds then it is to make a cast one, these usually are not made as well as they could be and tend to crack. You obviously have also not looked at even one stock cast 1.8t manifold as they are riddled with cracks. And not to mention the fact that its also just as easy to have a prone to cracking cast manifold if the incorrect nickel content is used and many other things. I also suggest that you do some research on porsche headers for example. Every aftermarket porsche setup is tubular steel and they almost never crack, these are cars that are raced regularlly on the weekends and still street driven. I have seen headers that were 15 years old been swapped between numerous engines in the same car and different cars for that matter, raced, street driven, raced/street driven, only thing that needed to be done was polish it and it looked like it was brand new, not to mention the fact that they support the turbo, are huge and heavy themselves and also are under the car so they actually get hit by stuff all the time.
This has nothing to do with apr vs dubwerks vs anyone it has to do with common sense.

My experience comes from hondas with manifolds such as full-race and love-fab. Their manifolds crack and are used on pro-race hondas and usually cost about $1200 per mani and are done correctly(usually last about 3 years). I was referring to casts pieces such as APRs manifold, but still, I will bet you $5 that a stock manifold will not develope an exhaust leak as fast as the one pictured. We aren't talking about Porsches with a factory backed effort, we are discussing this kit. I did make a generalization, and yes in some cases it isn't true, but for the most part it is. Also, when you refer to the porsches, are you saying turbocharged headers or n/a headers. The added weight of a turbocharger canterleavered with no bracing will only help cracking, so n/a headers I could see lasting forever. 

http://www.full-race.com/teh_bling/


_Modified by Blade at 10:54 AM 8-25-2003_


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

hope this kit comes out and is trouble free...Happy to see that GIAC jumped on board...the only question I have is why would you not want to release this kit in April...I mean some of us that live in Libertyville or anywhere where there is snow will only be able to use it for a few months and then either park it or kill yourself...oh well...I just want to see this...btw when is the official release date??
btw katie thx for my powergasket...


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (kilmer420)*

This looks like the same kit that was installed and dynoed on a B6 A4 on an episode of Super 2NR TV that was filmed at Innovative Turbo Systems. The car dynoed at about 270 HP. I did some research and found that they were using a S2 airwerks turbo with a tubular manifold. Rumor is that this kit is supposed to get about 350 Crank HP with the properly tuned software. 
Here is a pic of the kit on the A4.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (Jedi801)*

this looks juicy!!


----------



## MEDoc (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: (screwball)*

Watching with great interest. More choices are a good thing, let's hope this kit works as good as it looks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (Jedi801)*

The dub werks kit is for tranverse engines, that picture is for a longitudal. And yes, that car did about 270 to all 4 wheels untuned on 91 octane I believe. So make your own assumptions what it will do on 2 wheels and tuned properly


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
No actually it doesnt' looke like its anywhere near the fire wall, so we cant' read or look at pictures, or we're just an a$$.
If you actually look a second to look you would notice its a good 3-4 inches from the actual firewall. It is under the lip for the rain tray however common sense, which apparently some are lacking, would tell you that when the car accelerates it would squat back and away from that lip and into that huge cavity you ignored to look at for the sake of starting an arguement.

All your childish name calling aside, you got to be kidding me if you think their is 3~4" between the turbo and the firewall. 
Sometimes I wonder if you are actualy a VW tech, or you just play one on the internet.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (VWMike81)*

O yeah I believe I remember them saying something about the kit costing $2,500. If so they better be ready to make a lot real fast.


----------



## Marble (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_







Yes, the LP computer will be covered.









 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_
All your childish name calling aside, you got to be kidding me if you think their is 3~4" between the turbo and the firewall. 
Sometimes I wonder if you are actualy a VW tech, or you just play one on the internet.









Why, why, why start this?!







The last thing I want to see is this post locked.
I hope power figures are up where Jedi801 mentioned. That would be killer! I hope that dubwerks makes a page dedicated to FAQ's of this kit.


_Modified by Super1.8T at 4:24 PM 8-25-2003_


----------



## germantoy (Oct 6, 2000)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

i love katie and rich has a sweet a s s. Props for doing this ya bums can i get one for my caddy







.
Oh ya look for me this weekend BOOOOYA


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Jedi801)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jedi801* »_the kit costing $2,500

[starting rumor] THE KIT WILL ONLY COST $2,500





















[/starting rumor]


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (chaugner)*

For me, cost is not really an issue compared to the issue of how much power this kit can make. I'll glady pay to play. I just hope this this makes more power than the market norm. Can't wait to see the specs.


----------



## GTIturbo6400 (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

I guess I have a question that hasn't been addressed yet.
Will this be available for those with automatics/tiptronics???


----------



## funkysole (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: (GTIturbo6400)*









hey this is terris kit at inovaitive i saw that minifold in person and did that thing have some weight behind it but they made it out of a thick wall ss tubing and the dude that built that is a sick ass fabricator, KIWI rocks, im going to get my turbo through inovaitive, my friend josh works there, the manifolds is sweet in person and even better on the car.


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: (funkysole)*

i think i need to change my shorts.
finally, a bolt on turbo kit with some sack for vw's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif be interesting to see if the price is reasonable.


_Modified by KurtP at 5:59 PM 8-25-2003_


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (KurtP)*

cheap is realtive to the tight a55es in here. if the kit is 4k and puts out 275+whp on pump, then that's cheap enough for me. giac ain't cheap, neither is r&d, neither is reliability.


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*

bah, point was way too long, too off topic, and would ahve started flame war. emailed rebutle to you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
edit: nevermind, email hidden...siiighh....


----------



## 2003Jetta1.8t (Dec 18, 2002)

*Re: (Jedi801)*

Mmmmmmm, yummy...... If its $2500, then I'll give it serious consideration.


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (2003Jetta1.8t)*

Anyone know if this is gonna come with a new pump?


----------



## Misano (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

the $2500 Includes the manifold,Turbo ( oil cooled only requires elimination of watercooled center section) and mini gate


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfsburg2* »_cheap is realtive to the tight a55es in here. if the kit is 4k and puts out 275+whp on pump, then that's cheap enough for me. giac ain't cheap, neither is r&d, neither is reliability. 

I'm not a tight ass. I only make $13.25/hr. If I can't find a turbo kit I can afford I will have to piece one together.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Blade)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blade* »_
My experience comes from hondas with manifolds such as full-race and love-fab. Their manifolds crack and are used on pro-race hondas and usually cost about $1200 per mani and are done correctly(usually last about 3 years). I was referring to casts pieces such as APRs manifold, but still, I will bet you $5 that a stock manifold will not develope an exhaust leak as fast as the one pictured. We aren't talking about Porsches with a factory backed effort, we are discussing this kit. I did make a generalization, and yes in some cases it isn't true, but for the most part it is. Also, when you refer to the porsches, are you saying turbocharged headers or n/a headers. The added weight of a turbocharger canterleavered with no bracing will only help cracking, so n/a headers I could see lasting forever. 



If they are cracking in 3 years they are crap thats its, crap. I am not talking about factory backed porsche headers I am talkinga bout any aftermarket porsche header manufacture, and yes I am referring solely to porsche turbo headers.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_
All your childish name calling aside, you got to be kidding me if you think their is 3~4" between the turbo and the firewall. 
Sometimes I wonder if you are actualy a VW tech, or you just play one on the internet.









sometimes I wonder if you ever opened your hood to see if someone really installed your apr stage III since you seem to know very little about how things fit.


----------



## funkysole (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
If they are cracking in 3 years they are crap thats its, crap. I am not talking about factory backed porsche headers I am talkinga bout any aftermarket porsche header manufacture, and yes I am referring solely to porsche turbo headers.

the mans got a point there peeps. if the fabricator nows what he is doing then that manifols shoulds hold up good, but for added strenght i would put braces off ht eturbo flange to the manifold flange. that would also help. making rubular manifolds are not easy believe me i sat and watch miles from rev hard make a tubular manifold, he made it look easy but when i tried, yeah right, harder then it looks. so wait until the kit is released and then start the talking, until them shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## mzdaklr (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: (funkysole)*


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: (Misano)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Misano* »_the $2500 Includes the manifold,Turbo ( oil cooled only requires elimination of watercooled center section) and mini gate 

somehow, i dont see this thing bolting into anyone's car at $2500. if im wrong, hooray.....


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Jedi801)*

companies need to make money, they can't lose money s that you can buy their stuff on your salary. know what i mean. regardless of anyones salary there are way too many super cheap people on the tex. and i mean cheap. ever trya and sell something in the classifieds?








edit: no f-in way this kit even knows what 2500 looks like. that manifold alone would be $1000 alone. this is the kind of bs that pisses people off with people being cheap and ignorant.
if the kit makes good power(275+whp) and costs around 4k it is a good price. 

_Modified by wolfsburg2 at 6:21 AM 8-26-2003_


_Modified by wolfsburg2 at 6:22 AM 8-26-2003_


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*

yeap ^^^


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: (screwball)*

You guys are F-in dreaming if you think this kit will cost $2500. ROFLMAO.


----------



## Bora18t (Nov 16, 2001)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*

The $2500 that was posted up was a joke...and everyone took it seriously







Honestly guys, $2500...for a kit with a SS tubular manifold??? I dunno man...even Honda turbo kits aren't that cheap....


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Bora18t)*

I think it was more a glimpse of hope/dreams for people to hold on to before they were faced with the truth ...
everyone knows that its not going to run $2,500 and if you really think about ... with APR and ATP already on the market why charge that little (even if the cost for the kit were that low) ... bad business decision
people are in business to make money ... what good is it if the customer is happy but you have to close your doors cause you can't operate or have the money to do more research on new solutions.


_Modified by chaugner at 2:37 PM 8-26-2003_


----------



## PatAWW01 (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: (chaugner)*

dude if that thing is a KIWI header, its probably between 800-1000 for just the manifold....


----------



## Blade (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
If they are cracking in 3 years they are crap thats its, crap. I am not talking about factory backed porsche headers I am talkinga bout any aftermarket porsche header manufacture, and yes I am referring solely to porsche turbo headers.

Nevermind, not worth my air..........


_Modified by Blade at 8:42 AM 8-26-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Blade)*

I wonder if Dubwerks has any more details they can release? I also am wondering 2 things. Will the GIAC software they are using allow flipping between street and race programs? I can see it now, running some 116 unleaded







And, I wonder if BOV could be used, since the software is completely different? Only time will tell.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (PatAWW01)*

The only reason I posted $2,500 is because thats what they said on Super 2nr TV. I personally think it will be closer to $4,000.
Here are some threads on the kit.
http://forums.audiworld.com/a4...phtml
http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/1664695.phtml
If you want to see the episode click here rename to .rm 
They dyno it at 265.9 HP but also say that is at the flywheel. That was also on the stock chip.


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Jedi801)*

Katie,
Can you give a COMPLETE parts list? Actually, I'll make one....you just tell me yay or nay.
manifold
turbo
downpipe
wastegate
injectors
maf housing
inlet pipe
ic pipe for stock ic
fuel pump
oil feed and return lines
hardware and gaskets
v-band connections
programming
Just want to make sure this kit is complete as I hope it is. Also, would it be possible for Garrett Lim to post and let us in on the software? Any info is much appreciated


----------



## 18bora (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

Just a rough estimate. (don't get on my A$$ if I'm $200 - $400 of)
Turbo-----------------1,000
Gate--------------------250
Manifold----------------700 
Programming----------500
Fuel pump-------------200
Injectors---------------300
Gaskets----------------150
Silicone hoses---------150 
Nuts, bolts, brackets--150
----------------------------------------
------------------------3,400
+ R&D--Profit--------------?
+ installation-----------600 - 800
On pump gas
If ATP cost 3,400 (after adding all the stuff to make it run)
and it dynos around 230 whp = $14.7 per whp 
APR costs 4,000
and dynos around 265 whp = $15.0 per whp
Average $14.85 per whp
275whp X $14.85 ave = $4,083
If they sell it for less, take it and run.
I don't see why they would sell it for any less, if they can prove the claimed 275 whp on pump gas.


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ( 18bora)*


_Quote, originally posted by * 18bora* »_I don't see why they would sell it for any less, if they can prove the claimed 275 whp on pump gas.

I dont believe they have made any claims...


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ( 18bora)*

Where did you see the price on this turbo? It's not even bb! How could it possibly be $1k?


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Where did you see the price on this turbo? It's not even bb! How could it possibly be $1k?

I think he was just using a ball park figure to get a more or less close estimate ... turbo could be less or it could be more ... who knows ... the point was that it will possibly be priced within the same range as competition ATP/APR (not that they are both within the same range).
ATP - good price, software issues, more hastles to get the car to run as a daily driver (putting flame suit on)
APR - no issues, reliable, bolt on and run ... a little more expensive BUT still within reason considering the cost of parts and all the R&D that was put into the kit.
dubwerks - who knows


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (chaugner)*

either way....I'll take equal length over inconnel any day.


----------



## PatAWW01 (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (chaugner)*

everyone needs to just settle down, stop speculating, and just wait for dubwerks to make their claims....
until then, you guys are just wasting breathe and arguing with each other for no reason


----------



## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (PatAWW01)*

or increasing post count


----------



## GTbuzz (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (PatAWW01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PatAWW01* »_everyone needs to just settle down, stop speculating, and just wait for dubwerks to make their claims....
until then, you guys are just wasting breathe and arguing with each other for no reason









what he said.


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (PatAWW01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PatAWW01* »_everyone needs to just settle down, stop speculating, and just wait for dubwerks to make their claims....
until then, you guys are just wasting breathe and arguing with each other for no reason









come on ... its vortex ... the land of flaming, speculation, rumors and FUN .... we have to do something with our day to make us seem productive ...
at the end of the day I look back and evaluate what I have accomplished:
1. before work after shower vortex
2. at work vortex
3. after lunch vortex
3. early afternoon vortex
4. late afternoon vortex
5. before going hom vortex
6. before going to bed vortex
total post count: 25
total flames that I participated in: 4
total rumors that I started: 2
total productive posts: 0
knowing that I wasted 3 hours of my employers time: priceless








EDIT: this thread will go on until people get nasty and it gets locked by a Mod. Remember APR Stage III price increase ... 10+ pages of speculation, flame wars, non-productive comments, etc.


_Modified by chaugner at 5:09 PM 8-26-2003_


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (chaugner)*

A couple things guys:
1) THere's no way the kit can possibly cost $2500, or 3000, or even 3500 for that matter
2) When comparing prices, The APR III is going to cost $4500 in the next coming months, so take that into consideratioN!


----------



## 3wheelinWolf (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (PatAWW01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PatAWW01* »_everyone needs to just settle down, stop speculating, and just wait for dubwerks to make their claims....
until then, you guys are just wasting breathe and arguing with each other for no reason









No kidding. This kind of crap really makes the Tex annoying. The thread started off fine...


----------



## 18bora (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Where did you see the price on this turbo? It's not even bb! How could it possibly be $1k?

Turbo------------------100
Gate---------------------50
Manifold----------------120 
Programming-----------50
Fuel pump---------------50
Injectors-----------------30
Gaskets------------------10
Silicone hoses------------5 
Nuts, bolts, brackets-----3
----------------------------------------
------------------------$418
+ R&D--------------$2,982








Total----------------$3,400 
Ok,..do you feel better now...








*J/K*


----------



## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ( 18bora)*


_Quote, originally posted by * 18bora* »_
Turbo------------------100
Gate---------------------50
Manifold----------------120 
Programming-----------50
Fuel pump---------------50
Injectors-----------------30
Gaskets------------------10
Silicone hoses------------5 
Nuts, bolts, brackets-----3
----------------------------------------
------------------------$418
+ R&D--------------$2,982








Total----------------$3,400 
Ok,..do you feel better now...








*J/K* 

YOOOOOOOO!!! Where you keeping the stash of hundred dollar turbos "B"!!!! 
LOL


----------



## turbo02gti (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ( 18bora)*

Will these components be available individualy? (Software..Hint..Hint..Hint)








I think that would really help your companies sales/profit margin if you were willing to separate pieces from this kit like ATP does!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (turbo02gti)*

Ok, I'm going to answer a few questions here.
Pricing, Power Numbers and a Full parts list should be available in the next 2-3 weeks. We are looking to start releasing kits to the public October-November.
At this time, no parts will be separated from the kit, everything will only be sold as a kit.

We really appreciate everyones interest, we have received alot of emails and phone calls. We will keep everyone updated on progress. Thanks!


----------



## mzdaklr (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ([email protected])*

6-speed 337 please!


----------



## tattoo24v (Nov 9, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (mzdaklr)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for dub werks. you will be getting a call from me when its ready


----------



## PineappleMonkey (Mar 2, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (tattoo20v)*

w00t


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ( 18bora)*


_Quote, originally posted by * 18bora* »_
Turbo------------------100
Gate---------------------50
Manifold----------------120 
Programming-----------50
Fuel pump---------------50
Injectors-----------------30
Gaskets------------------10
Silicone hoses------------5 
Nuts, bolts, brackets-----3
----------------------------------------
------------------------$418
+ R&D--------------$2,982








Total----------------$3,400 
Ok,..do you feel better now...








*J/K* 

ROFLMAO


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (tyrolkid)*

Morning bumpage! I still can't find any details on the Airwerks S2 turbo.


----------



## PatAWW01 (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Super1.8T)*

lol, good respond Sam


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (PatAWW01)*

bump


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (genxguy)*

Mad props to Rich and Katie. Can't wait for prelim results.


----------



## rcdg60 (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VDUBNDizzy)*

well rich i am going to sell the g60 and have to buy a 1.8t (red) to be just LIKE brothers.......!!!




_Modified by rcdg60 at 8:06 PM 8-27-2003_


----------



## Schwagger (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (rcdg60)*

good lord almighty, where can I get one of them there things


----------



## 18tee (Apr 14, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (FrankiEBoneZ)*










































































































nothing else to say


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (18tee)*

The thread cannot die







! I guess no more updates from Rich and Katie until their release of the entire kit. Still can't wait to see what the kit can do


----------



## boraIV (Jan 8, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Super1.8T)*

soo... what numbers should i pick for Lotto this week?


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_I guess no more updates from Rich and Katie until their release of the entire kit. 

The car is at GIAC getting tuned with 38# and 42# injectors.







I can't wait.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VDUBNDizzy)*

Dizzy, you really have the scoop on everything! You must be nearby GIAC? Please excuse my ignorance, but how do I convert #38 and #42 to cc's? I am used to seeing injectors rated at cc/min.
Edit: #42 is about 440cc/min and #38 is about 400cc/min?


_Modified by Super1.8T at 5:30 PM 8-28-2003_


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote »_Dizzy, you really have the scoop on everything! You must be nearby GIAC? Please excuse my ignorance, but how do I convert #38 and #42 to cc's? I am used to seeing injectors rated at cc/min.
Edit: #42 is about 440cc/min and #38 is about 400cc/min?




_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_Info from Treffen. 
I talked to Rich for a while about the kit. He was hoping for a September release I think. The kit will be complete (manifold, MAF housing, injectors, turbo, etc.). It sounded like they were going to use 38# or 42# injectors, undecided as of yet. The turbo was supposedly larger than a GT25 and smaller than a GT30. I asked about projected hp figures, and none were given. The kit looks really cool and Rich was friendly and cool to talk to. The pricing was stated to be "competitive" to the market. I inferred that APR was the market, so hopefully it will be lower than that. I think the kit is going to end up coming with a 2.5" modified TT DP, but I think they were uncertain about that as well. We'll see what happens on this one, but I told them if the programming was right people would be beating their doors down to get one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I said that like a week ago.


_Modified by mj6234 at 3:39 PM 8-28-2003_


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (mj6234)*

And it's all I could get out of Rich yesterday.


----------



## Kei78 (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jcstomper (Feb 25, 2002)

*Re: (Kei78)*

bumpity


----------



## ReverendHorton (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_ I think the kit is going to end up coming with a 2.5" modified TT DP, but I think they were uncertain about that as well. 


I wonder if that means it will be a PITA w/different downpipes? I like my 3".


----------



## Bora18t (Nov 16, 2001)

*Re: (ReverendHorton)*

In all honesty, none of the turbo kits currently available ( APR STG 3, ATP STG 2, 3, or 4) utilize the stock downpipe or stock downpipe layout..you always have to change the downpipe due to the positioning/clocking of the turbo...


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Bora18t)*

The non existant PES kit was unique in this way but oh well. DubWerks will beat them to market. I'll buy a new DP if it means a real GIAC kit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

word


----------



## Bora18t (Nov 16, 2001)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

Haha...the PES Longitudinal kit does exist, and you can utilize any aftermarket DP you want...but the longitudnal kit...well







Man you don't know how I feel about that


----------



## BlackFury6 (Nov 4, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (FrankiEBoneZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FrankiEBoneZ* »_
YOOOOOOOO!!! Where you keeping the stash of hundred dollar turbos "B"!!!! 
LOL

LMAO HAHAHAHAHA, that's exactly what i was thinking...... stop holdin out homey, where they @?


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Bora18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bora18t* »_Man you don't know how I feel about that























How long did it say "PES turbo kit coming soon" in your sig?


----------



## 18bora (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (BlackFury6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlackFury6* »_
LMAO HAHAHAHAHA, that's exactly what i was thinking...... stop holdin out homey, where they @?


----------



## Bora18t (Nov 16, 2001)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
How long did it say "PES turbo kit coming soon" in your sig?









Almost 3 times as long as they had my car to do "prototyping"


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Bora18t)*

Yeah, they got you good man.







You took one for the team. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jcstomper (Feb 25, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

F - pes tuning http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif







, i live like 2 miles from that place and when i got chipped there like 2 years ago they said they'll have there kit out within a year, now look were there at. i mean thats just not good business sense at all http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Bora18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bora18t* »_In all honesty, none of the turbo kits currently available ( APR STG 3, ATP STG 2, 3, or 4) utilize the stock downpipe or stock downpipe layout..you always have to change the downpipe due to the positioning/clocking of the turbo...


Actually APR stage III does use the stock Downpipe layout, thats the point of the cast turn down piece off the turbo.


----------



## 1.8t man (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

external wastegate i cant wait to dump it out into the atmosphere MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA









GOD (a.k.a dubwerks) make this kit under 4,000 dollars and its mine even if its 3,999 ill buy it the week it comes out 


_Modified by 1.8t man at 11:58 PM 8-29-2003_


----------



## Bora18t (Nov 16, 2001)

*Re: (jcstomper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jcstomper* »_F - pes tuning http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif







, i live like 2 miles from that place and when i got chipped there like 2 years ago they said they'll have there kit out within a year, now look were there at. i mean thats just not good business sense at all http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Haha...you're telling me...they had my car there for almost 5 months doing...prototyping...
Oh sorry chris... correction there on my part...but using the stock downpipe layout doesn't mean you can utilize any aftermarket downpipe...just the APR "specific" one, correct??


_Modified by Bora18t at 6:20 AM 8-30-2003_


----------



## 20Vhybred (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: (Bora18t)*

This is a sweet looking kit . I would love to see a 300WHP pump gas kit hit the market.For all the people concerned about lag consider the facts .Fact is we have only 1.8lts of engine to work with and a red-line 2000 rpms short of the red top(the "H" word) 1.8 ltr motor everybody wants to beat.So regardless of whos kit we talk about if you want to make some big power with the Audi 20V you will have to live with some lag.
To answer the above post about the APR STG 3 down pipe , the Kit comes with a supplied 3 in down pipe so a aftermarket one is not necessary.


----------



## Vega909 (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: (20VsilvrGTI)*

maybe this was already mentioned but do you think GIAC will honor a trade in value for people with their software currently? like apr...


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (Vega909)*

got the updated pictures you said katie???? please... please... please... hawaii dubber VERY interested in the kit... mememememememe... what fmic's will this work with??? dont wanna buy one and have to modify the damn thing


----------



## tattoo24v (Nov 9, 2001)

*Re: (2KGTI-t)*

hey katie, are you guys going to start any kind of waiting list on this kit? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (2KGTI-t)*

The kit uses stock IC piping so any front mount will work. And the APR kit requires the use of their DP, you can't use any aftermarket one.


----------



## jettasin00 (May 7, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

bump for a sick looking kit


----------



## scarywoody (Dec 3, 2000)

*Re: (Vega909)*



Vega909 said:


> maybe this was already mentioned but do you think GIAC will honor a trade in value for people with their software currently? like apr...[/QUOTE
> Yeah I'm pretty sure they will...I've seen trade in values around $200-$250...but you could probably sell it for more than that.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (scarywoody)*

2KGTI-t:
























We have not had any firewall clearance issues, there is still a few inches of room.
We are going to be offering a discounted option for previous GIAC customers. Information will be soon on this. This software will not be available on its own and can only be purchased by purchasing the entire kit.
We do not have a waiting list, but if anyone is interested in receiving email updates on our kit so you do not have to keep checking here, I can do that as well. If you want to send your name, email address and your vehicle over to [email protected] I would be happy to send out periodic emails.
Thanks again!!


----------



## underPSI (Sep 6, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Lookin' good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Nice pics. Waste gate sure is easy to get to. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hoTTub (Nov 5, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

All the sudden, why does everyone make this a XXX vs YYY kind of thing? Sheesh! I am happy to know that there are more options for 1.8T's before the 2.0 is the new darling...the 1.8T becomes the new G60 in terms of motors. Just think, once the 2.0 comes out, you can almost kiss any R&D of 1.8T kits goodbye








I dont understand all of the haters










_Modified by hoTTub at 4:42 PM 8-30-2003_


----------



## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (hoTTub)*

How about a projected price and HP goal? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jcstomper (Feb 25, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_Nice pics. Waste gate sure is easy to get to. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 yeah to bad yours is a internal


----------



## Hurleysurf24 (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (jcstomper)*

It took that long for giac to figure the kit out? Not bashing it, byt the kit my kit a little over 2 weeks to figure out (fitment, which parts, etc. etc.). oh yea we also had it done before giac







(incase anyone was thinking about bringing that up)

Anyways, awesome kit GIAC. Looks good. Another competitor is awesome !! Screw APR and there price increases


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: (hoTTub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hoTTub* »_All the sudden, why does everyone make this a XXX vs YYY kind of thing? Sheesh! I am happy to know that there are more options for 1.8T's before the 2.0 is the new darling...the 1.8T becomes the new G60 in terms of motors. Just think, once the 2.0 comes out, you can almost kiss any R&D of 1.8T kits goodbye








_Modified by hoTTub at 4:42 PM 8-30-2003_

smartest reply ive seen on these forums yet. what little RD we have now is about to be gone.


----------



## GTbuzz (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (KurtP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KurtP* »_
smartest reply ive seen on these forums yet. what little RD we have now is about to be gone.

Let the love flow guys. Doesn't it feel good to be nice?


----------



## underPSI (Sep 6, 2000)

*Re: (Hurleysurf24)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hurleysurf24* »_It took that long for giac to figure the kit out? Not bashing it, byt the kit my kit a little over 2 weeks to figure out (fitment, which parts, etc. etc.). oh yea we also had it done before giac







(incase anyone was thinking about bringing that up)

Anyways, awesome kit GIAC. Looks good. Another competitor is awesome !! Screw APR and there price increases

It's a Dubwerks kit, not GIAC. GIAC is just doing the ECU programming. Why do so many think it's a GIAC kit when all GIAC does is software??


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (underPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *underPSI* »_
It's a Dubwerks kit, not GIAC. GIAC is just doing the ECU programming. Why do so many think it's a GIAC kit when all GIAC does is software??
















Which is why we haven't seen a GIAC kit yet. Because most of the VW tuners are half arse, ie PES. Greddy tried but fell short but they are hardly "VW tuners". But regardless, at least DubWerks stepped up and is bringing this to market. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and







for Rich and Katie.


----------



## Hurleysurf24 (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (underPSI)*

BECAUSE it says "Dubwerks new GIAC kit"
Not "Dubwerks new Turbo Kit Featuring GIAC software"


----------



## ReverendHorton (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Hurleysurf24)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hurleysurf24* »_my kit a little over 2 weeks to figure out (fitment, which parts, etc. etc.). oh yea we also had it done before giac









does it really matter how fast it got done? if its not putting out power (17 sec passes?) then it really doesn't matter.
I've got some info coming on the airwerks s2 line soon.


_Modified by ReverendHorton at 10:29 PM 8-30-2003_


----------



## Hurleysurf24 (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (ReverendHorton)*

no it doesnt. but try doing bette at 9psi on a tiptronic... you will see lowww 13 seconds out of this car ass soon as the boost is turend up


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (Hurleysurf24)*

rich, katie. lookin sick! keep up the great work guys! make the kit:
1. work on my 337
2. allow for 3" GHL DP
3. reliable for 3+ years
4. 300+whp on pump gas
5. cost less than $5K installed
and you have another customer! seriously....make some money off this, but try to keep it reasonable for us working folk.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PineappleMonkey (Mar 2, 2000)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

Just a statement for all you reliability freaks. If it makes power, it makes power. Reliable? It's GIAC doing the software, not your joe shmo "Tuner" 
As far as power levels...its dubwerks! If they aren't one of the most power hungry people, I don't know which VW shop is. 
Honestly, if I owned a 1.8T which I don't







and this kit made more power then an APR kit, I'd happily pay 5k for it, power is power. I dont want "smooth" I want it to kick my ass everyday.


----------



## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_rich, katie. lookin sick! keep up the great work guys! make the kit:
1. work on my 337
2. allow for 3" GHL DP
3. reliable for 3+ years
4. 300+whp on pump gas
5. cost less than $5K installed
and you have another customer! seriously....make some money off this, but try to keep it reasonable for us working folk.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
















Jesus, you want that for 5000$... installed!


----------



## GTbuzz (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (PineappleMonkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PineappleMonkey* »_ I want it to kick my ass everyday. 

Hellz yes.


----------



## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
1. work on my 337
2. allow for 3" GHL DP
3. reliable for 3+ years
4. 300+whp on pump gas
5. cost less than $5K installed


1. It'll most likely work on your 337
2. Who knows if it'll allow for the ghl, but i'm sure theirs will come with a dp? 
3. Reliable for 3+ years is totally in our hands.
4. 300+hp on pump gas.... I agree!! Sounds good to me!








5. $5k *installed?????* I highly doubt that.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Seanathan`)*

Two things I am wondering are, the use of V-band clamps and a race gas program. It would be wonderful to have the kit designed to use V-band clamps in their kit just like in the pics. That's the way to do it, IMHO. Also, I hope a race gas program is available for even more fun! Can you imagine the power output on race gas, based upon the rumors of WHP on pump gas?


_Modified by Super1.8T at 9:46 PM 8-31-2003_


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

katie: i love you... more pic's please... mahalo from hawaii


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (2KGTI-t)*

Bumpage . . .


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (hoTTub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hoTTub* »_All the sudden, why does everyone make this a XXX vs YYY kind of thing? Sheesh! I am happy to know that there are more options for 1.8T's before the 2.0 is the new darling...the 1.8T becomes the new G60 in terms of motors. Just think, once the 2.0 comes out, you can almost kiss any R&D of 1.8T kits goodbye








I dont understand all of the haters










You may not understand the haters but the haters at least understand what they ar talking about. The 1.8T will ont become a G60 becuase the G60 is not an engine its a supecharger bolted to an already existing (although slightly modified engine). The G60 supercharger itself was designed by some drunk engineer who also thought that while drunk smoking crack would be a good idea, then sat down and designed the charger. The engine and fuel injection that they put the G60 engine on is a great base for a turbo motor and when done correctly will put out as much power as a moderatly tuned 1.8t, both given have similar turbos. So its not the G60 thats bad or the 1.8T thats bad or the new motor thats going to be any better, its whats done with them that counts.


----------



## turboluvr (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (chris86vw)*



chris86vw said:


> The G60 supercharger itself was designed by some drunk engineer who also thought that while drunk smoking crack would be a good idea, then sat down and designed the charger. QUOTE]
> LOL!! So True!


----------



## ocnyaww (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: (ReverendHorton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ReverendHorton* »_
does it really matter how fast it got done? if its not putting out power (17 sec passes?) then it really doesn't matter.
I've got some info coming on the airwerks s2 line soon.

_Modified by ReverendHorton at 10:29 PM 8-30-2003_

I have to agree with him, sure it didn't take you guys long to design the hardware and layout, but we've all seen that the downfall of 1.8t tuning is availability of proper software. When you guys get the kit up and running to its maximum potential with proper software, then you can really brag. 
Not trying to flame you, I like the fact that you've got the balls to go custom and go big turbo on a tiptronic, but i think you're getting a little ahead of yourself in your claims. 
Also, bump for more info on this turbo


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_Two things I am wondering are, the use of V-band clamps and a race gas program. 

It will have both according to Rich.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

Oh? That's great news. I am not as familiar with GIAC as I'd like to be, but I assume one could switch from program to program with the flip of a switch or something similar? V-band clamps are the way to go, and I am happy that no expense was spared, possibly eliminating them. That'll make it that much wasier for those of us that haven't learned to weld yet (thanks Dubwerks!)
Doing some research, I discovered that Innovative Turbo Systems is a main distributor of the new Borg Warer Airwerks Turbos, along with Area 51 Fabrications. Excellent move for BW to have ITS as a main distributor. And, I would go as far to say that Innovative would not have even considerd being a distributor for Airwerks turbos if they were not capable. Sheesh, they eat sleep and breath Garrett turbos. Could BW's turbos be the next heavy market hitter? Who knows?
I'll go on a limb here. . . . It looks to me like Innovative had their hand in this quite a bit along with Dubwerks. I am very happy that this kit went to the best to be designed. Everything I have seen looks first rate to me. No cut corners. Looks like we'll get to reap the results







Can't wait to hear what's next. My hope: minimum 300WHP on 91/93 pump gas and at least 350WHP or more with 100/120 race gas.
Please excuse the ignorance, but can anyone tell me if the GIAC software that will be used can magically break the 25 psi barrier (limp) that stops 99% of us from doing what we want with our cars? Is the 25psi barrier something that programming can defeat or is it something that is hard-coded and something that we'll all have to work around?


_Modified by Super1.8T at 9:12 PM 9-1-2003_


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

The kit will be GIAC IBE compatible meaning different files with the push of a button. And Rich is shooting for 300whp on crappy Cali 91 octane so your needs should be met. It's just a matter of time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_
Please excuse the ignorance, but can anyone tell me if the GIAC software that will be used can magically break the 25 psi barrier (limp) that stops 99% of us from doing what we want with our cars? Is the 25psi barrier something that programming can defeat or is it something that is hard-coded and something that we'll all have to work around?


Kits with programming included rewrite the requested boost curves so the PSI limit is raised. And GIAC will push that S2 turbo right up to it's limit so we should see lots of boost.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

Excellent. This kit seems like the best thing since silced bread . . . or whatever . . . yea


----------



## vivencio (Jun 21, 2003)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

OKEE....I have a question. I spent about 835 dollars on the APR DPP with 3 programs. If I wanted to go this route with the Dubwerks turbo upgrade kit, will i just have to eat my loss? Because with the GIAC chip, I will have to send off my ecu to them to chip right? And the APR DPP will be totally useless to me right? Just curious. Kinda' new to this turbo upgrade stuff. Any information would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: (vivencio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vivencio* »_OKEE....I have a question. I spent about 835 dollars on the APR DPP with 3 programs. If I wanted to go this route with the Dubwerks turbo upgrade kit, will i just have to eat my loss? Because with the GIAC chip, I will have to send off my ecu to them to chip right? And the APR DPP will be totally useless to me right? Just curious. Kinda' new to this turbo upgrade stuff. Any information would be greatly appreciated. 

Well, from a practical standpoint, YES, you would eat the loss.
But consider that you could probably get $550 - $600 for the chip if you sold it in the Vortex classifieds.
Also, you could always go APR III, but I think the Dubwerks kit will be WAY better


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_
Well, from a practical standpoint, YES, you would eat the loss.
But consider that you could probably get $550 - $600 for the chip if you sold it in the Vortex classifieds.
Also, you could always go APR III, but *I think the Dubwerks kit will be WAY better*









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (2KGTI-t)*

"Also, you could always go APR III, but I think the Dubwerks kit will be WAY better "
i am looking forward to this kit coming to market but this statement is silly. way better based on what. way better as in will have more power, be more complete, better drivability, cheaper?
i woul be happy with the dw kit if it is more powerful ion pump, and costs the same with a small drivability loss and be just as complete as apr's kit. better is sbjective i guess. with the bigger turbo needed to beat apr's numbers should come a little more lag. you always hear apr cars drivie as if vw made it that way, thats a big compliment to apr's quality and shouldn't be overlooked. 
i am nnot an apr fanboy i run giac and like giac, and will buy the dw kit if it is more powerfull than apr.


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## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*

With that said, I want to put my two cents in and say I'll gladly pay to play. More expensive than market norm, than APR, than anyone else? Sure I'll gladly pay for it. If it performs, bring it on, I've waited and saved for a LONG time. I can and will accept any turbo lag that this kit may have for maximum power. I am sure this kit will be able to be daily drivable, I'll put money on the table to that. Even if it changes the driving characteristics of my car, I look forward to that and all the power. I guess my point in saying all this is in hopes that dubwerks won't sacrifice much at all or trim the tuning level down in fear that it's buyers may think it would be too much. I'm ready for a heavy hitter and can accept what comes with it! Please DubWerks, please don't skimp on anything! I'll glady take what comes with the power!

















_Modified by Super1.8T at 10:43 AM 9-2-2003_


----------



## Power5 (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

Will this work on my TT? I doubt it, just asking. Can I buy just the manifold, and make the rest work on my TT? Is it possible to upgrade to a larger turbo, or is the manifold restricting a bigger compressor housing? If you would like a TT to be a platform that is supported, I will gladly lend mine for DP prototyping. Could there be an option without the injectors and Chip, as I will be going standalone instead.


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## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Power5)*

if you are going standalone just go with atp hardware. i'd go apr if i had a tt225 though.


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Power5)*

Not sure if they are going to adapt a kit for TT's. They won't be selling individual pieces though. The manifold and turbo use a T3 flange so upgrading turbos will be easy.


----------



## Boge VR6 (Aug 24, 2000)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

Sweet work guys ...







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Power5 (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (Boge VR6)*

I want a tubular header for my car too. APR will not release their stupid crap, so I wont wait for them. Why can't tuner's make us TT owner's happy for once. I mean if you aren't going to make a kit for my to pay extra for, why can't they at least sell me some of the stuff so I can do it myself. I just wish we had some of the options that the other 1.8t owners had. I mean the 225 engine is the engine most people would want anyway. Oh well, I guess I will just have to make my own kit.


----------



## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (Power5)*

i have a buddy with a 225 that is going to want this kit as well.


----------



## Power5 (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (drivrswntd)*

I know about 10 TTers from audiworld that would want this kit as well.


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## -Damir- (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfsburg2* »_"Also, you could always go APR III, but I think the Dubwerks kit will be WAY better "
i am looking forward to this kit coming to market but this statement is silly. way better based on what. way better as in will have more power, be more complete, better drivability, cheaper?


It's based on his opinion. Is that OK with you?


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (-Damir-)*

Opinions aren't allowed on Vortex.


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## -Damir- (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

Yeah I figured.


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## hoTTub (Nov 5, 2000)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
You may not understand the haters but the haters at least understand what they ar talking about. The 1.8T will ont become a G60 becuase the G60 is not an engine its a supecharger bolted to an already existing (although slightly modified engine). The G60 supercharger itself was designed by some drunk engineer who also thought that while drunk smoking crack would be a good idea, then sat down and designed the charger. The engine and fuel injection that they put the G60 engine on is a great base for a turbo motor and when done correctly will put out as much power as a moderatly tuned 1.8t, both given have similar turbos. So its not the G60 thats bad or the 1.8T thats bad or the new motor thats going to be any better, its whats done with them that counts.

Whatever Chris, my point was that soon, the 1.8T that cant be beat <sarcasm> will not be the hottest lick on the block. And while you felt it necessary to point out that the G60 is _not_ a motor but a supercharger that _goes_ on the motor under this thing called a hood, I would like to mention that 1.8T also is nothing more than a souped up 1.8 ltr motor that dates back to when, 1985? So WTH is your point?
When the 3.2 VR, 2.0T and *other* motors from the new lines are available to swap from VW's shared platform positioning the 1.8T will not get the focus that it once had, you dont think that the tuners will not be *rushing* to make up lost time by being the first with the new VW/Audi motors? i think so....I guess your right, I dont get the *haters*


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (hoTTub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hoTTub* »_
I would like to mention that 1.8T also is nothing more than a souped up 1.8 ltr motor that dates back to when, 1985? So WTH is your point?
When the 3.2 VR, 2.0T and *other* motors from the new lines are available to swap from VW's shared platform positioning the 1.8T will not get the focus that it once had, you dont think that the tuners will not be *rushing* to make up lost time by being the first with the new VW/Audi motors? i think so....I guess your right, I dont get the *haters*

I don't think they had 20V heads on production cars in 1985.







And as for the new motors, if the tuners have only put what little R&D the 1.8t has received, what makes you think there will be abundant tuning options for the new stuff?


----------



## hoTTub (Nov 5, 2000)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

another one stretching every detail to exaggerate the point. whatever dude....
The 1.8T motor is a first for VW in mainstream cars..turbo's?....Imagine if VW keeps with the turbo theme....what could lie ahead and what other people would be interested in doing VW stuff..
Just like *other* turbo cars that came before it, they had to develop a market. VW is no different.


----------



## wasbondy (Oct 31, 2001)

*Re: (hoTTub)*

It amazing how many people are waving their hands & saying that they are going to buy this kit. Yet there has not been any price set, no HP #'s & nobody now how reliable this kit is. 
I bet it's the same group that complained to no end when APR wanted to raise the price on there stage III. A stage III that has a very proven track record I might add. 
It's the same group that will most, will never buy a stage III kit of any kind.


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (hoTTub)*

Hey, I hope the market opens up for us just as much as the next guy. I just don't see it happening. And I don't care what this kit costs (to a reasonable limit). It's the GIAC programming that comes with it that will seperate it from APR's overpriced kit. It will be mine. Yes, it will be mine.


----------



## wasbondy (Oct 31, 2001)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_Hey, I hope the market opens up for us just as much as the next guy. I just don't see it happening. And I don't care what this kit costs (to a reasonable limit). It's the GIAC programming that comes with it that will seperate it from APR's overpriced kit. It will be mine. Yes, it will be mine. 

What if this kit is almost as much as the APR, would this kit also then also qualify as a "overpriced kit". What makes this kit special that it does not get called "overpriced". In my opinion the kits are going to be priced very closely, but I guess we'll find out


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## ocnyaww (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

well the r&d done by vw tuners on the 1.8t will not go to waste on the other motors. Chances are tuners will still have to get around a very complicated ecu to tune the cars properly, and they will have better learned to do that by tuning 1.8t's.


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (wasbondy)*

If this kit is more than APR's kit, I'll still buy it. 300 whp or close to it on pump gas is what will make this kit worth it. Overpriced equals = 260 whp on pump gas.


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## wasbondy (Oct 31, 2001)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_If this kit is more than APR's kit, I'll still buy it. 300 whp or close to it on pump gas is what will make this kit worth it. Overpriced equals = 260 whp on pump gas.









And the dyno's & proof that the kit is 300whp is were??








The best & most educated answer would be to say *IF* the kit is 300whp on pump gas & similar priced as the APR Stage III kit then I will buy it.


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_
Please excuse the ignorance, but can anyone tell me if the GIAC software that will be used can magically break the 25 psi barrier (limp) that stops 99% of us from doing what we want with our cars? Is the 25psi barrier something that programming can defeat or is it something that is hard-coded and something that we'll all have to work around?

_Modified by Super1.8T at 9:12 PM 9-1-2003_

This is a actual concern there is a limiting factor, the ECU cannot see anything over 1+1.54mb = 22.33 psi. To run any more boost safely a stand alone, piggyback or some other method of fuel/boost feedback loop has to be used.


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (wasbondy)*

That's what they are shooting for and the turbo is more than capable. Garrett Lim will get it there, no doubt. Sure there hasn't been a dyno yet but it will happen. Even if it's a few ponies short, it'll still be much closer to it as compared to APR's 296 crank HP on pump.


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *9VW23yrs* »_
To run any more boost safely a stand alone, piggyback or some other method of fuel/boost feedback loop has to be used.

So how does your APR kit run more boost than that?


----------



## Mike0105 (Dec 31, 1999)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
So how does your APR kit run more boost than that?









I don't think the APR kit does run more boost then that. And why does everyone think this new kit is going to be so cheap? If you want cheap then start having a passion for something else cause German cars are not cheap to tune or own. APR has one hell of a kit, and if I could afford it I'd be lining up for it. All of you guys are jumping on the dubwerks band wagon like they are the greatest thing since slice bread, where is there experiance in building turbo kits? And how reliable is it? There is only one car with the kit currently? 
Granted I think its awesome that there are other companies coming out with further tuning options for the 1.8t. But until there are some reliabilty reports, independant dyno's and an actual price I think a lot of you guys should just keep your mouth's shut till the real information has come foward. 
Mike


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (VWMike81)*

APR's kit definitely runs more boost than that. And DubWerks is collaborating the kit, Innovative is supplying the turbo and manifold. And why do you guys keep jumping on me like I'm insisting that it'll be cheap? I already said I'll pay whatever it costs (taking into consideration they are aiming to be competitive with APR's and the market won't support some uber expensive kit). Besides, tubular manifold =


----------



## GTbuzz (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

hopefully these groovy things will still be on the market when I graduate from school and start accumulating dollars.


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
So how does your APR kit run more boost than that?









It does not... there is a spike but it tapers to 19-20 ps on pump and 21- 22 psi on race gas.


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

But you're saying that the ECU doesn't even see the spike, which is just not true. And several others have posted boost logs that show it holding boost above that. Not to mention that it shouldn't hold more boost just by being on the race gas profile.


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

...and they run lean, I know this as a fact. 
BTW the ECU does not see the spike. APR safeguards this condition(spike) by running rich 10.5-11.5, 12.0 on 104
APRs programing is for 20-22 psi not more. That is what the ecu request. All the logs I have posted from several cars are at 19-20 psi on 93 and 21-22 on 104. On race it requests 1-2 psi more



_Modified by 9VW23yrs at 9:53 PM 9-2-2003_


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

How can you say the ecu doesn't see the spike? Care to get technical? You can't stop the ecu from reading the spike by just running the car rich. Besides, it's about volume, not just pressure, and it's pretty plain to see that the airwerks s2 is much larger than a puny gt28. That plus the manifold design should cover apr III running an equal amount of boost.


----------



## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

The ECU will only read to 2540mb -1000mb atmospheric =1540mb. After that it sees a flat line at 1540mb. That is the limit of the Map sensor. So therefore it cannot detect any more boost after that limit. Need more...


----------



## Harryhd (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: (wasbondy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wasbondy* »_It amazing how many people are waving their hands & saying that they are going to buy this kit. Yet there has not been any price set, no HP #'s & nobody now how reliable this kit is. 
I bet it's the same group that complained to no end when APR wanted to raise the price on there stage III. A stage III that has a very proven track record I might add. 
It's the same group that will most, will never buy a stage III kit of any kind.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (hoTTub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hoTTub* »_
Whatever Chris, my point was that soon, the 1.8T that cant be beat <sarcasm> will not be the hottest lick on the block. And while you felt it necessary to point out that the G60 is _not_ a motor but a supercharger that _goes_ on the motor under this thing called a hood, I would like to mention that 1.8T also is nothing more than a souped up 1.8 ltr motor that dates back to when, 1985? So WTH is your point?
When the 3.2 VR, 2.0T and *other* motors from the new lines are available to swap from VW's shared platform positioning the 1.8T will not get the focus that it once had, you dont think that the tuners will not be *rushing* to make up lost time by being the first with the new VW/Audi motors? i think so....I guess your right, I dont get the *haters*

As pointed out no the 1.8t is not that, and in fact the 2L turbo would be actually going backwards if you want to get really technical. My main point is every motor is still just as ****ular as it ever was. You dont' see all the fast VR guys dumping theire 12V heads to go 24V no infact all the 12V guys going fast broke into the 9s this week or will be soon enough. Kevin black still has a 2L 16V turbo race car that should be in the 9s soon enough also, he is not looking to jump up into the new technology that I know of just because its new, why becuase what he has is working. You had an all done up VR6 now you have a worked 1.8T, you are the perfect example of the person you are making fun of only caring aout whats new on the block. I'm guessig you will be one of the first to jump on a 2L 16V turbo or a 3.2L VR6 TT. I personally am actually going backwards using an aba block and a 1.8L 16 head to build a turbo VR6 rabbit race car, so not its not all about the latest and greatest, but it is fun to be in the race to make power out of it before it becomes old news.


----------



## ABTMuDa (Mar 16, 2001)

*Re: (Harryhd)*

I will still buy the stage III. If I am not wrong there has not be a singe car with this setup, at least not one that could be examined. 
What is the long wait for?


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *9VW23yrs* »_The ECU will only read to 2540mb -1000mb atmospheric =1540mb. After that it sees a flat line at 1540mb. That is the limit of the Map sensor. So therefore it cannot detect any more boost after that limit. Need more...









Well, it's always been my experience that it could only read up to 20% over what the ecu is requesting so if stage 3 requests 22psi on race gas than that would be 26.4 as your limit. I have seen stage III spike almost 30 before also.


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## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (ABTMuDa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABTMuDa* »_I will still buy the stage III. If I am not wrong there has not be a singe car with this setup, at least not one that could be examined. 
What is the long wait for?

Are you referring to a long wait for the kit this topic is about?? how can it be a long wait, in fact it will be the fastest kit to market if things go to plans, even with some wait it will still be extremely fast since the test kit was only built whithin the last few weeks.


----------



## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

Why does it take so long? Because Garrett has to perfect the timing/boost/fuel maps. That takes time. ALot of time. Each version of the chip needs to be road/dyno tested to make sure there are no problems like limp mode, tb closing, etc.


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (16vracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vracer* »_Why does it take so long? Because Garrett has to perfect the timing/boost/fuel maps. That takes time. ALot of time.

Nah, he's quicker than you think.


----------



## Power5 (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (wasbondy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wasbondy* »_It amazing how many people are waving their hands & saying that they are going to buy this kit. Yet there has not been any price set, no HP #'s & nobody now how reliable this kit is. 
I bet it's the same group that complained to no end when APR wanted to raise the price on there stage III. A stage III that has a very proven track record I might add. 
It's the same group that will most, will never buy a stage III kit of any kind.

Dont add me to this list. I wont buy the kit if it costs any more than the ATP kit. The only R&D that go into these kits is the Chip tuning. Yes it takes some time to make the manifold fit as well as possible. We are talking about 40 hours at most to make that manifold. Then However they are going to mass produce them. I dont care how many little add-ons you throw into the kit. THis kit is a turbo which could be bigger for $450 (that's what my brother paid for each of his for his corrado) TA3410s are quite a bit larger than these AirResearch. The manifold on the super high end is worth $1000, you can tack on as much inflation as you want, that price is already inflated as much as the Goodyear blimp. (But I dont have any idea, cause I have never done custom work before *sarcasam*). The pump is a couple hundred at retail, along with the injectors. It has been well documented that people have recreated the APR or ATP kits for much less. Its all about the time you want to spend. These kits are designed to be bolt-ons, and that is what you are paying for. The wealth of knowledge on this site is free from enthusiast that have paid with multiple engines and other car parts to find out the envelope on our VWs, but they don't seek restitution from those that follow in their footsteps. Tuners put forth the same money as some of us entusiasts, but seek restitution in the form of R&D inflation to the kit price. A tuner that brings in hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars in sales, should not really need to get this money back. THey are in business to make money, I do understand that. But when we install their product that took "X" amount of R&D dollars, then it breaks (ATP manifold) and they turn a deaf ear, that is wrong.







I have been drinking








Back on topic.......
Make this kit worth the sum of its parts, and I will buy it. Make it twice as much as the sum, and I will make it myself.
Not like they were planning on making it for my piece of crap car anyway.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Power5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Power5* »_







I have been drinking











I'm glad you pointed that out because its the only thing that could possibly explain what you typed prior to that, and no I am not talking about grammer.
If you go by your logic then your TT should have cost about 5 bucks becuase someone figured out how to make all those parts a 100 years ago and there was no point in Audi doing any research to make a different/better car.


----------



## evilpat (Feb 26, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

LOL I'd buy that for 5 dollars








Gotta love all this speculation. Tuners shouldn't even bother to let us on the vortex know what they are up to at this point . . . I actually kinda feel sorry for all the crap that flies their way if they don't succeed exactly as they had planned. Business is business so don't fool yourselves. These shops are in the business of making money, otherwise they would still be doing weekend projects in their garage. Personally, it is about time GIAC got together with someone for a turbo kit besides the AWD k04 (though it would be nice if they had a K04 map for AWW).


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *9VW23yrs* »_
This is a actual concern there is a limiting factor, the ECU cannot see anything over 1+1.54mb = 22.33 psi. To run any more boost safely a stand alone, piggyback or some other method of fuel/boost feedback loop has to be used.

Can't this be bypassed with new programming and new sensors, MAP, FPR, etc? Isn't the prgramming VW made originally the barrier itself? I just am not seeing/understanding why there is a limit at all, given there can be new programming and new sensors. When a chiptuner such as APR or GIAC tunes, aren't they completely rewriting the software anyway?


_Modified by Super1.8T at 1:32 AM 9-3-2003_


----------



## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_

I'm glad you pointed that out because its the only thing that could possibly explain what you typed prior to that, and no I am not talking about grammer.
If you go by your logic then your TT should have cost about 5 bucks becuase someone figured out how to make all those parts a 100 years ago and there was no point in Audi doing any research to make a different/better car.

I have to agree with Chris on this, and that isn't very often


----------



## 337drew (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: (Seanathan`)*

stay on topic.


----------



## hoTTub (Nov 5, 2000)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
You had an all done up VR6 now you have a worked 1.8T, you are the perfect example of the person you are making fun of only caring aout whats new on the block. I'm guessig you will be one of the first to jump on a 2L 16V turbo or a 3.2L VR6 TT. 

Boy do you like to make up stuff as you go along...Yeah, I did have a worked VR6....then I _sold_ the car...you make it sound like when the 1.8T came out, I dumped the VR6 out of my cabby and swapped in a 1.8T. *I SOLD THE ENTIRE CAR*







When exactly did you see me poking fun at people who want the latest technology. When I read my posts with proper reading comprehension...I am referring to the industry who will jump on new technology. Considering that the Transverse 1.8T is approx 4 yrs old here in the states, and there is exactly 2 'workable' kits on the market, I would not hold my breathe once the 1.8T is replaced for a ton of new options to be available. We all see how many 12V VR6 turbo systems have come out lately...ya know, being that they are so popular and all


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (hoTTub)*

The reason people are thinking that the kit will be low priced is because of this video
http://pictures.fedulov.com/album03
If that kit from ITS for the A4 costs $2,500 w/out software then the Dubworks one should cost around $3,000 with GIAC chip.
Unless these guys pulled that $2,500 price quote out of their @ss.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (hoTTub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hoTTub* »_
Boy do you like to make up stuff as you go along...Yeah, I did have a worked VR6....then I _sold_ the car...you make it sound like when the 1.8T came out, I dumped the VR6 out of my cabby and swapped in a 1.8T. *I SOLD THE ENTIRE CAR*







When exactly did you see me poking fun at people who want the latest technology. When I read my posts with proper reading comprehension...I am referring to the industry who will jump on new technology. Considering that the Transverse 1.8T is approx 4 yrs old here in the states, and there is exactly 2 'workable' kits on the market, I would not hold my breathe once the 1.8T is replaced for a ton of new options to be available. We all see how many 12V VR6 turbo systems have come out lately...ya know, being that they are so popular and all









Your proving my point even further. There are no kits for the VR6, other then EIP, there are no kits for the 16V, other then matrix who I don't think anyone has bought. But people stil turbo these things day in and day out. Why does that mean that as soon as the new engines come out that they will be dropped. yeah some tuners may back off, but thats when the little ones pick them up and make producs like ATP did for us to modify. My point was that a new motor does not mean that one drops off the face of the earth. Look at Bahn Brenner there whole business is based around the G60 charger/engine, the ENTIRE business, and they came into the picture years later.


----------



## Cypher2k (Nov 23, 2000)

Dont forget Kaptain Krunch and his g60 smashing crew at Kompressor Kanada.


----------



## WindnWar (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: (Cypher2k)*

Does anyone actually have any specs on the turbo they are using? So far everyone assumes it'll be better then a gt25 or gt25/28 because it looks bigger but as of yet, I haven't seen any compressor maps, or have any idea as to lag etc... 
bump for some detailed info................


----------



## Jetta_1.8Tip (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: (WindnWar)*

Quoting Katie on page 2
_"Airwerks S2 Turbo with upgraded compressor wheel"_
Couldn't find a compressor map anywhere though. More detailed info would be good but let's give them some time and I'm sure we'll get all the good data.


----------



## ReverendHorton (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (WindnWar)*

ok heres the info that I have received RE: the airwerks s2. I apologize for the large file (~400k) but much smaller and you can't read the numbers.
Airwerks S2 info
if one of you guys can narrow it down to a specific model, I can probably ask for the corresponding compressor map.
(Isn't it nice to get this topic back into the technical side of things rather than the theoretical arguments?







)


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (ReverendHorton)*

what does the "twin" mean on the chart?
and yes, that video is sick. 265hp/270tq with stock programming and basically the same kit we will be getting....for $2,500! Which theoretically means ours will be around $3K-ish! unless of course we get larger injectors/pump and a front mount perhaps?

















_Modified by FreshieMedia at 3:44 PM 9-3-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

I think 3K is calling it a bit too low, but only time will tell. If everything that's needed is included with this kit, injectors, fuel pump, hardware, etc, I could see it being near 4.5K. Those numbers are very impressive with bone stock programming. With that big of a turbo, and only the turbo, manifold, and wastegate changed, how did they not manage to hit limp, check engine light, or similar, and how did they not go lean with more CFM's of air being put through? So with the information in the video, for the kit we are looking for at least 265hp/270tq + 12% or so gain for front wheels driven only, and that's on bone stock programming? How much more power can the GIAC tuners give? I'm not sure. I suppose 300WHP is not out of the question, and even more might be easily obtainable. In the video, a 20 psi spike was mentioned. I was hoping for a little more from that turbo, but again I suppose that's stock programming. I have no idea how much psi/cfm the S2 turbo will flow. I called Borg-Warner toda and asked them to fax me information on the S1 - S3 turbos so I could get an idea of what this thing can do. I hope this kit will see 25 psi (not a spike). But perhaps I am asking too much in that respect . . .


_Modified by Super1.8T at 5:55 PM 9-3-2003_


----------



## jude (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

How do we know the car was stock before the turbo and manifold swap? I saw the show and don't remember them saying anything about it being stock.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (jude)*

Anything's possible on TV


----------



## shaman427 (May 6, 2001)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

Ok watch the video again there is a brief moment that you can see GIAC chip on the table. I would assume that they ran it with a K04 chip if it exist for the A4. There is no guarantee that the car stock was prior to the kit. But they did mention 150'ish Hp run before install. Well as long as it is close from the APR III I would be happy and it should cost a bit less







I hope.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (shaman427)*

Well according to this link someone talked to the owner and said that he was running the stock chip. They also said that those numbers are at the flywheel, but if that turbo is about the same size as a T3/T4 I would expect higher than 270 FWHP. Although they may have been running low boost if he was on stock chip and injectors.
http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/1664878.phtml


_Modified by Jedi801 at 4:53 PM 9-4-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Jedi801)*

Bumpity . . .
I made page 9!!


----------



## VWJTI1.8T (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

If this kit is more than 280 HP I'll buy it if not I will continue to purchase my parts individually and create my own "Super Car" LOL. Katie can you please give us a little heads up on ball park HP #'s. That would be great thanks!


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (VWJTI1.8T)*

It's been said many times, they are shooting for 300whp on pump. The car is being tuned right now. As soon as they know and are comfortable enough with the results, we'll know. Just hold on. It'll be worth it.


----------



## ABTMuDa (Mar 16, 2001)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

300whp on pump would be nice. Any proof?


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (ABTMuDa)*

THEY ARE STILL TUNING IT, THERE IS NO PROOF. THAT IS THEIR GOAL!!!!!!!
READ THE POSTS!!!!!
man wtf.


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfsburg2* »_THEY ARE STILL TUNING IT, THERE IS NO PROOF. THAT IS THEIR GOAL!!!!!!!
READ THE POSTS!!!!!
man wtf.

actually, let's not spread misinformation. in no post has dubwerks said their goal was 300whp....i think that is OUR goal for the kit. they have not released any info regarding numbers. they are tuning it...if they are happy with the way it performs then they will release it, if not, then more software tuning, bigger injectors, etc. until they reach the power they are looking for. yes, dubwerks are insane power freaks....i wouldn't be surprised if this was 300whp on pump gas, but let's not spread rumors. it will be dynoed soon enough!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

Hey guys/gals! First, let me thank everyone for the overwhelming interest in our kit, this is a very exciting time for us and are very happy that there so many others excited as well.
Okay here is a PRELIMINARY dyno, this is on 91 California octane with Prototype GIAC software. Calculating drive train loss, right now our GTI is doing 326hp to the crank. We are very happy with the results thus far, I will post up final dynos when tuning is finished and when we have 100 octane numbers as well.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

Looking good; very promising! I wonder what a race gas program would yield; 40 or 50 hp more? And that's not even finally tuned yet











_Modified by Super1.8T at 3:10 PM 9-5-2003_


----------



## boraIV (Jan 8, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

wow... very promising, and look at that beautiful tq curve!


----------



## flanders (Apr 5, 2001)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

ooooooooo...that ain't too shabby for 91 octane!!








edit: why weren't dyno's done up to redline? hp peaks right as the dyno cuts off!


_Modified by flanders at 2:12 PM 9-5-2003_


----------



## Blade (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (flanders)*

284whp on 91oct. Pretty nice. Rev that baby on out to 7k, you will gain more power @ that rpm with that turbo.


----------



## Dan337 (Apr 11, 2002)

*Re: (Blade)*

good news for us on the west coast where it's really hard to find anything over 91 or 92 octane! 
Thanks for the update








dc


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

nice


----------



## Prefekt (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

holy crap!


----------



## bmxvr6 (Dec 11, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*

This will get real interesting real quick.


----------



## Marble (Nov 20, 2002)

Hopefully there will be some 93 oct programs...but if you guys don't even have it, I guess you cannot test it.








I am guessing that 93 oct will work fine on a 91 oct program though, so that should be ok!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Katie/ Dubwerks for keeping us posted, Innovative, and GIAC for getting this project moving and hopefully onto the market!


----------



## chim-chim1.8t (Jul 8, 2003)

*Re: (bmxvr6)*

man.... i was just gunna post the 280+ hp on pump dyno... i thought i was the first to hear it... yeah well.... this kit rocks.


----------



## spoolinvdub (Feb 4, 2003)

good stuff


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (Blade)*

all i gotta say is HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This kit will fit my goal of 270+whp on 91oct.







The other thing I would want to know is what boost levels, but only time will tell. I knew that GIAC was the best at tuning 91oct gas, thats why he owns the west.








Katie--Will the kit include some type of bracing or brackets to hold the turbo in place?
I am soo happy!








Dubwerks wins, GIAC wins AGAIN, Innovative has been winning for years, and the standard issue "APR what?"

























_Modified by BatiGol at 12:17 PM 9-5-2003_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (BatiGol)*

The turbo is fully braced, yes. Thanks for all the responses.







As I get more updates on tuning I will keep everyone posted, at this time we are here in IL and are not able to watch Garrett work his magic so this is just as exciting for us as it it for all of you.


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:49 PM 9-5-2003_


----------



## PineappleMonkey (Mar 2, 2000)

*Re: (BatiGol)*

The song Bombs Over Baghdad and Let The Bodies Hit The Floor comes to mind


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (PineappleMonkey)*

Holy poop! 284whp on a Mustang still in the initial state of tune! Go Dubwerks! You're making this look easy!


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (ATXGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ATXGTI* »_Hopefully there will be some 93 oct programs...but if you guys don't even have it, I guess you cannot test it.


Well Garrett programs killer 93 octane programs for the k03, so I'm sure they will be able to come up with something for us 93 octane users








Way to go to all parties involved! What fun times we own VW's in


----------



## wsaenotsock (Sep 17, 2001)

*Re: (Blade)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blade* »_284whp on 91oct. Pretty nice. Rev that baby on out to 7k, you will gain more power @ that rpm with that turbo.

W3rd take it up to a least 7 grand! It was still pulling when you let off. Looks very promising, awesome job so far! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (Adam20v)*









nice curves! (no, i'm not hitting on you katie!







) can't wait to see 93 and dare i say 104 octane!!! keep it up!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

Soooooooooooooooo, you guys are going to make an adapater so you can use any aftermarket exhaust with your kit, right? That would make me and my new exhaust VERY happy.


----------



## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

Jeezle


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (Adam20v)*

284whp on a mustang dyno, on 91 octane, on stock intercooler.....








And did anyone read that small print in the middle, 90 degrees too!








This turbo is pretty big, as there is some lag. I am certain that the APR boys will comment about the lag and "area under the curve" and such. heck, I am kinda commenting about it. 200whp at 4000rpms isnt too impressive, as the APR kit does have that at around 3000rpm. The programming isnt going to change the spoolup time much, so that makes this interesting.
I would be eager to see these numbers on a dynojet. Or to compare an APR S3 plot from a Mustang dyno.
Regardless, this may be a worthy pickup for me. Torque is nice around town, but chances are for me, I either cruising around or fully on it, so this would suit me nicely. WIth the larger turbo curve too, this should be much easier to launch then K03 or even APR S3.
Please people, do not misinterpret my words above, I very well may get this kit. I am just pointing out a couple things that do matter to some people, and we shouldnt overlook it.
But looking at nerdhotrods dyno from long ago, the curves look very similar. I think the GT30 and this turbo are pretty similar.








Do we have preliminary boost levels?

*AND A BIG http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif TO DUBWERKS AND GIAC FOR BRINGING A GREAT PRODUCT!!!!*


----------



## Stewz-GTI (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (Blade)*

The fine print says that is in 4th gear with stock IC!


----------



## sylens (Jun 28, 2000)

*Re: (Stewz-GTI)*

oh boy ... time to start saving ......
will the manifold fit a longitudinal block as well (ATW from A4) ?
I have a swap and would like to know if your manifold would fit.


----------



## Marble (Nov 20, 2002)

As far as the boost curve...that is a good point, BUT, from my experience with my K03, a 3000rpm drop is best, so you would actually still be able to launch well, AND, when you are shifting from gear to gear (high revving of course) you will not see 3000rpm. The lowest I see, shifting at 6500rpm, is about 5500rpm...I think...will check on this at lunch!
See where I am going with this? All the power is being made where you will be in the revs when wanting to go WOT!!
Again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Cannot wait for my chance to upgrade to the DUBWerks Kit!


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (ATXGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ATXGTI* »_The lowest I see, shifting at 6500rpm, is about 5500rpm...I think...will check on this at lunch!

with 3.65 final drive, when i shift at 6500 it goes back down to about 4000-4200...so this is perfect


----------



## MEDoc (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: (Adam20v)*

Well, since this _was_ posted as a kit to compete with APR III, you all knew this was coming. Don't flame me, I'm well aware that these are two different types of dynos, two cars, different phases of the moon, yada yada yada. But as New 337 brought up, the dubwerks torque curve looks pretty darn laggy, and yes, area under the curve _does_ matter, a lot. So look not so much at the peak numbers, but the shapes of the curves. I'll probably get flamed all to hell and back for saying this, but even if this kit has more peak power, looking at this curve my money would go to apr. That being said, this is preliminary stuff from dubwerks and the kit and numbers look awsome so far! Damn good job guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
















BTW, the two red curves are APR, the blue and green upper ones are dubwerks










_Modified by MEDoc at 3:52 PM 9-5-2003_


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (MEDoc)*

that graph is pretty and all...but dude, if your going to make a comparison why dont you find a APR stg3 dyno to compare it to. That is a "made up" *crank* horsepower dyno from APR. NOT A REAL DYNO. That entire comparison is not even accurate.


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (Adam20v)*

Here is a real one to compare it to.
Remember though, the top run here is fully tuned on *93* octane. The bottom 2 runs are on 104 octane.


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (Adam20v)*

True...very true. Just curious, what does the APR kit make on 91 octane? 250whp?


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (mj6234)*

.
_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_True...very true. Just curious, what does the APR kit make on 91 octane? 250whp?

i saw one post about 235whp...but the majority are 240-250whp APR stg 3 on 91 octane


----------



## MEDoc (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: (Adam20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Adam20v* »_that graph is pretty and all...but dude, if your going to make a comparison why dont you find a APR stg3 dyno to compare it to. That is a "made up" *crank* horsepower dyno from APR. NOT A REAL DYNO. That entire comparison is not even accurate. 

Yeah, I knew that was going to come up, remember, I said "no flaming"








Anyway, have you ever seen a real APR III dyno, that's pretty much what they look like, shape, magnitued and everything. APR's website is very conservative when it comes to their claims for their stage III, and the pretty graph I posted above is actually much closer to wheel than crank. Here's a wheel HP dyno for you...


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (MEDoc)*

I didn't flame ya buddy







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And I posted an independent one on the last page for ya


----------



## deadguy (Apr 13, 2001)

*Re: (Adam20v)*





































A new winter project for me..


----------



## MEDoc (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: (gintaras)*

Anyway, looks like it's going to be close on the top end, and more choices is better for everyone.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (MEDoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MEDoc* »_Anyway, looks like it's going to be close on the top end, and more choices is better for everyone.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I am gonna disagree. Nearly all the APR S3 dyno's show about 260whp-270whp on 93 octane, with a much broader torque curve. The dubwerks kit is showing what most APR S3'rs get with a minimum of a FMIC and possibly a couple other tinkers as well. Remember, the dubwerks kit is on 91 octane, stock intercooler, 90 degree weather, on a *MUSTANG* dyno. These numbers are already in excess of APR S3 pump numbers. My opinion, they are probably really close peak numbers to what APR S3 Race program is, since it is on a Mustang Dyno which reads about what, 5% lower then dynojets?
And, no flaming intended, but this kit should be making more numbers. Looking at the plots, it seems to be similar to a GT30, which is alot larger then the GT25 used in APR kits. So, there are 2 things to note:
1) Looks (as of now) that the APR kit has a great and very usable torque curve
2) The dubwerks kit will make more power then the APR kit, all in the upper RPM range.
Thats the way I see it, and this is still on 91 octane, stock intercooler. I cant wait to see a 100 or 104 octane program with a front mount intercooler. Just adding a front mount should net you 300whp on crappy 91 cali' octane.
KEEP IT UP DUBWERKS and GIAC! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (new 337)*

Remember guys, for a one gear dyno pull with 90deg coolant temps, the addition of a FMIC, will not net huge gains.


----------



## LA Wolfsburg (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_Remember guys, for a one gear dyno pull with 90deg coolant temps, the addition of a FMIC, will not net huge gains.

and on and on he goes, when he will stop nobody knows.


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (LA Wolfsburg)*

..and that would be on any kit, d.a.


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

*yawn* is that is wolks.... or am I expecting too much from you?


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (MEDoc)*

Edit . . . nevermind, it's already been said.
Katie, would you be able to comment on boost levels this kit gives? I recieved a fax from Borg-Warner with compressor maps, however, without knowing the specs on the S2 turbo used, I can't predict much of anything. Borg shows at least 5 or 6 models of S2 turbos.
I am hoping for BIG BOOST! Peg my VDO!!


_Modified by Super1.8T at 7:06 PM 9-5-2003_


----------



## MEDoc (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

Keep in mind though that that "crank" hp curve of apr's is really about like what most look like at the wheel, +/- a few hp, see the above examples. And like I said, my point was more area under the curve than anything. To me it looks like even if dubwerks has more power, APR may still be more fun to drive since it has so much torque for so long. But in a race, well, who knows, I guess time will tell


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (MEDoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MEDoc* »_Keep in mind though that that "crank" hp curve of apr's is really about like what most look like at the wheel, +/- a few hp

APR stg3 does not produce 290whp on 93 octane like the "crank" numbers that graph represents. Try about 25-35whp less than that on pump gas. And to compare the curves doesn't work right for just that reason. You really need to compare it to a real dyno.


----------



## MEDoc (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: (Adam20v)*

Okay okay, here you go (the blue arp curves are 93, the red are race gas):








looks like the dubwerks pulls ahead after ~ 4700 rpm by a little and maintains it. Look earlier though, 125 more ft-lbs of torque on the apr at 3600 rpm, and keeps a pretty big margin for quite a while. In a race on the top end looks like dubwerks might have it, but from a roll I'll still bet on the apr. They are both incredible though, and I would love to have either








BTW, look at that, dubwerks is almost as high as apr on race gas on the top end







Looks like apr may need to wring some more power out of their kit










_Modified by MEDoc at 6:44 PM 9-5-2003_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (MEDoc)*

Sorry guys, I should have mentioned boost levels. When this dyno was done, it was at 16-17psi and then 18-19psi up top.


----------



## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (MEDoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MEDoc* »_Okay okay, here you go (the blue arp curves are 93, the red are race gas):








looks like the dubwerks pulls ahead after ~ 4700 rpm by a little and maintains it. Look earlier though, 125 more ft-lbs of torque on the apr at 3600 rpm, and keeps a pretty big margin for quite a while. In a race on the top end looks like dubwerks might have it, but from a roll I'll still bet on the apr. They are both incredible though, and I would love to have either








BTW, look at that, dubwerks is almost as high as apr on race gas on the top end







Looks like apr may need to wring some more power out of their kit









_Modified by MEDoc at 6:44 PM 9-5-2003_

Both are incredible, but turbo lag can be avoided in a race by 1)dead stop, good launching techniques and 2)a roll, being in the right gear.
Up top is where the car will be, so you want more power up there. Granted, around town you'll see less psi, but hey, shift at 3.5K then, instead of 3K. Not gonna hurt anything. Plus, off boost, yes the car is sluggish, but its not a complete snail. (I've been ina car with a T3T04E, so I know what the lag feels like when a turbo doesn't come on till 4K). 
I have been holding my tongue, but now that we have some dyno numbers, I will give Dubwerks MAD PROPS on killing it with better numbers. 300WHP will be a wonderful thing on pump gas, just keep the price to 4000$ or lower, and you guys will take over the market.


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Sorry guys, I should have mentioned boost levels. When this dyno was done, it was at 16-17psi and then 18-19psi up top. 

I guess that explains the higher torque at the top end. 
Looks good! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 18bora (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

Coming soon















APR's Stage III gen II
















Edit:
3,250 hp @ 2 psi



_Modified by 18bora at 1:42 AM 9-6-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Katie, would you know how many psi can this turbo put out and stay efficient? 25, 26, 27? My wish is at least 25. I assume this baseline you gave us was at medium boost and not yet turned up all the way? Are you able to reveal yet if the race program will turn up timing only or timing and boost?


----------



## Harryhd (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ( 18bora)*


_Quote, originally posted by * 18bora* »_Coming soon















APR's Stage III gen II
















Edit:
3,250 hp @ 2 psi
_Modified by 18bora at 1:42 AM 9-6-2003_


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_When this dyno was done, it was at 16-17psi and then 18-19psi up top. 


If this is true, then 300whp is right around the corner! Awesome numbers!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And I still want to see dynojet numbers. If the goal was 300whp on a mustang dyno, then dayum!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2boosted (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: (new 337)*

new 337... when you posted yoru last post, it was post #337 >;]


----------



## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: (new 337)*

I've got sticky pants now.
This makes me happy that my car didn't sell.
Are you accepting deposits yet Katie?


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (2boosted)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2boosted* »_new 337... when you posted yoru last post, it was post #337 >;]

Thx for noticing, I was waiting in the shadows.....


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (new 337)*

yeah, but Dubwerks is already working on *their* gen II kit, dynos to come!








*Edit: do you think the samco TIT will still fit?







* 


_Modified by FreshieMedia at 8:15 PM 9-5-2003_


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_Remember guys, for a one gear dyno pull with 90deg coolant temps, the addition of a FMIC, will not net huge gains.

Yeah, but it will on the highway.......you know.....where you'll be getting RAPED by every dubwerks fitted vw!














Including this one.


----------



## Blade (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

Will you childish haters shut up. Vortex is so worthless these days, too many babies crying about whos "daddy" is better. This kit is going to rock, too bad they don't have one prototyped for longitudinal cars. Katy, I assume you have a 3" maf, what size injectors are you using and what brand?


----------



## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_
Yeah, but it will on the highway.......you know.....where you'll be getting RAPED by every dubwerks fitted vw!














Including this one.









There will be 1 300whp pink gti and one little red thunderbug driving around jville busting down on the v8s http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif






















Hit me up from work tom jay!


----------



## "PODIUM" (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: (BoostedJetta)*

not picking sides or bashing ... but how long or how much (power, boost)can you espect out of these engines to take (miles) before !!!BOOM!!!noone even mentioned that....(axels,trannys,rods,heads,ect).. est miles???on a average vorter driveing habits ,cruz one day smash another? How long will these kits last that is the question.........







before I drop 10 g's after intrest.


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: ("PODIUM")*


_Quote, originally posted by *"PODIUM"* »_before I drop 10 g's after intrest.









if you plan on taking out a loan to finance your car habit, you have a SERIOUS problem!


----------



## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
if you plan on taking out a loan to finance your car habit, you have a SERIOUS problem!









hey a credit card is a loan so watch it


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: ("PODIUM")*


_Quote, originally posted by *"PODIUM"* »_before I drop 10 g's 

I'm kind of in the same boat ... lets assume the Kit is going to run $4K, LSD $1K, Clutch $600, Install $800 (kit, lsd, clutch)
thats $6400 .... I am thinking of putting a smaller amount of that towards a down payment for another car (my girlfriend wants a TT







)
I have the money to buy one (Kit) but I am not sure if I want to put that kind of money into a car on which I still owe $17K.
decisions ... decisions .... maybe Katie can give us an introductory price for the first 10 kits. Something like 50% down










_Modified by chaugner at 1:51 PM 9-6-2003_


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
if you plan on taking out a loan to finance your car habit, you have a SERIOUS problem!









I agree. Even if you are "financing" it on your CC, that is still a very poor financial decision. Pay the car off, then buy toys. No way am I carrying CC debt for any reason.


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (chaugner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_
I'm kind of in the same boat ... lets assume the Kit is going to run $4K, LSD $1K, Clutch $600, Install $800 (kit, lsd, clutch)
thats $6400 .... I am thinking of putting a smaller amount of that towards a down payment for another car (my girlfriend wants a TT







)
I have the money to buy one (Kit) but I am not sure if I want to put that kind of money into a car on which I still owe $17K.
decisions ... decisions .... maybe Katie can give us an introductory price for the first 10 kits. Something like 50% down









_Modified by chaugner at 1:51 PM 9-6-2003_

if only install was 800...hehe, maybe like 600 for just the LSD and clutch....and another 800 for 10 hours worth of turbo kit labor....its expensive stuff


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FrankiEBoneZ* »_
I will give Dubwerks MAD PROPS on killing it with better numbers. 300WHP will be a wonderful thing on pump gas

285whp not fully tuned in high heat on stock IC on a Mustang with 91 octane vs Shaka's 285whp with 3" exhaust, dual IC's, pulleys, and N75 in much colder weather on an optimistic dyno on 93 octane. 
Is it really an enhanced driving experience now?







I thought Wolk's would have talked more $hit by now but I guess there's nothing he can say. 


_Modified by VDUBNDizzy at 1:25 PM 9-6-2003_


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

It looks good, is all I have to say.








Can't wait to try a bigger turbo on my car, but I can tell allready we need more revs, to make huge #s.


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

Solid lifters = drool.


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

No joke. How much are those things now a days, and where can I get some.


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

Wasn't there a Schrick set on that $17K motor on Ebay from Momentum?


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

Does Eurospec sell them?


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_Wasn't there a Schrick set on that $17K motor on Ebay from Momentum?

yeah the one that cost $80/hour to tune


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (RaraK69)*

I just sat down and actually calculated what its going to cost me to run in the 300 whp club and I realized its way to much.
$1200 ($200 install) FK Koenigsport Coilovers + Neuspeed Front Sway
$700 ($150 install) FMIC (already ordered it







)
$500 ($150) Custom Dual A-Pillar Pod with 60 mm Greddy Boost and EGT (still lookign on ebay)
$1600 ($400) LSD + Clutch
$4000 ($800) Turbo Kit
those are pretty conservative estimates .. total $9700 of that is $1700 install cost which might not apply if you know the right people or do it yourself.
but all in all I came to the conclusion its out of my range








Damit ... I guess I have to get a second job.


----------



## jcstomper (Feb 25, 2002)

*Re: (chaugner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_I just sat down and actually calculated what its going to cost me to run in the 300 whp club and I realized its way to much.
those are pretty conservative estimates .. total $9700 of that is $1700 install cost which might not apply if you know the right people or do it yourself.
but all in all I came to the conclusion its out of my range








Damit ... I guess I have to get a second job.
 just do it over time and dont thinkg about that part of it, crap if you thought about everything you spend on cars youll never wanna drive again


----------



## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_Solid lifters = drool. 

solid lifter setup from schrick is about 2300 in parts alone minus labor and port and polish work.


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (chaugner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_I just sat down and actually calculated what its going to cost me to run in the 300 whp club and I realized its way to much.
$1200 ($200 install) FK Koenigsport Coilovers + Neuspeed Front Sway
$700 ($150 install) FMIC (already ordered it







)
$500 ($150) Custom Dual A-Pillar Pod with 60 mm Greddy Boost and EGT (still lookign on ebay)
$1600 ($400) LSD + Clutch
$4000 ($800) Turbo Kit
those are pretty conservative estimates .. total $9700 of that is $1700 install cost which might not apply if you know the right people or do it yourself.
but all in all I came to the conclusion its out of my range








Damit ... I guess I have to get a second job.

How about you start working on your own car? There's an idea.


----------



## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (chaugner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_I just sat down and actually calculated what its going to cost me to run in the 300 whp club and I realized its way to much.
$1200 ($200 install) FK Koenigsport Coilovers + Neuspeed Front Sway
$700 ($150 install) FMIC (already ordered it







)
$500 ($150) Custom Dual A-Pillar Pod with 60 mm Greddy Boost and EGT (still lookign on ebay)
$1600 ($400) LSD + Clutch
$4000 ($800) Turbo Kit
those are pretty conservative estimates .. total $9700 of that is $1700 install cost which might not apply if you know the right people or do it yourself.
but all in all I came to the conclusion its out of my range








Damit ... I guess I have to get a second job.

I have 1 word for you...... *CLASSIFIEDS!* 
I personally have been piecing together my own kit, and in the end, its gonna run me about 6000$, for EVERYTHING. Suspension, tranny, turbo kit.
Classifieds is a gold mine.


----------



## trustnoone (Nov 4, 1999)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

don't forget ot add in $$$ for stronger axles, stronger fuel pump, etc... with the much power, u'll probably want nicer wheels to show as well. in the end, u'll end up costing at least 1/3 of a brand spanking new 4wd Subaru STI. y not just buy another car?


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FrankiEBoneZ* »_
Classifieds is a gold mine.

As long as whoever you are dealing with doesn't rip you off.


----------



## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
As long as whoever you are dealing with doesn't rip you off.









Personally, I've never been ripped off. If your getting ripped, you should have been more careful.


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*

Na, I have never tried the classifieds. I just see the horror stories and that is enough for me to stay away. BTW, I wasn't rolling my eyes at you, rather at the classifieds. Hope you didn't take it the wrong way.


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_
How about you start working on your own car? There's an idea.









I have done all installs in my sign myself except the pulleys and the electical wiring for the autometer gauge.
$200 install FK Koenigsport Coilovers = I'd rather have that done by someone that knows what he is doing ... I am driving on them ... if my exhaust falls off big deal I can get a new one ... if the coilovers are done the wrong way .. bye bye
$150 install FMIC (already ordered it )
I bought this in the classifieds and I probably end up installing it myself. 
$150 install Custom Dual A-Pillar Pod with 60 mm Greddy Boost and EGT (still lookign on ebay) ... let me think A-Pillar replacement, airbag myself??? no way ... again something as important as the airbag (not the actual airbag but the cover) I'd rather have someone do it that knows what they are doing.
$400 install LSD + Clutch
$400 for a LSD and clutch install is pretty good ... I'll have my mechanic help me if I need it. it was an estimate and not the actual cost.
$800 install Turbo Kit
same here as with the LSD ... I'll leave the car in the shop and try to do as much as possible myself .. I think 15 hours of mechanic work for something that usally takes 40 hours is pretty good ...
its the first time that I am working on a car so I rather take the safe route ... I think you would do the same if it would be your first.


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (trustnoone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trustnoone* »_don't forget ot add in $$$ for stronger axles, stronger fuel pump, etc... with the much power, u'll probably want nicer wheels to show as well. in the end, u'll end up costing at least 1/3 of a brand spanking new 4wd Subaru STI. y not just buy another car?

i agree. i have 2300 ish with suspension,chip,CAI,GFB,pads, tires,short shifter,boost gauge.....if i want anything more out of it i will get a different car. I wanted a 14 second fun reliable safe car and the MK4 fit the bill. if i wanted a drag car i'd buy one.


----------



## 337drew (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

Lets stay on topic


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (chaugner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_
I have done all installs in my sign myself except the pulleys and the electical wiring for the autometer gauge.
$200 install FK Koenigsport Coilovers = I'd rather have that done by someone that knows what he is doing ... I am driving on them ... if my exhaust falls off big deal I can get a new one ... if the coilovers are done the wrong way .. bye bye
$150 install FMIC (already ordered it )
I bought this in the classifieds and I probably end up installing it myself. 
$150 install Custom Dual A-Pillar Pod with 60 mm Greddy Boost and EGT (still lookign on ebay) ... let me think A-Pillar replacement, airbag myself??? no way ... again something as important as the airbag (not the actual airbag but the cover) I'd rather have someone do it that knows what they are doing.
$400 install LSD + Clutch
$400 for a LSD and clutch install is pretty good ... I'll have my mechanic help me if I need it. it was an estimate and not the actual cost.
$800 install Turbo Kit
same here as with the LSD ... I'll leave the car in the shop and try to do as much as possible myself .. I think 15 hours of mechanic work for something that usally takes 40 hours is pretty good ...
its the first time that I am working on a car so I rather take the safe route ... I think you would do the same if it would be your first.

You'll never learn anything unless you experiment. Coilovers????.....COME ON! Using a friends lift I did the rear in about 15 minutes and the front in about 30. I don't know about you but I trust myself working on my car more than anyone else. Something f#cks up at least I know it's on me. That's just more reason to pay attention to detail. If you don't even have the ambition to learn the in's and out's of your car first hand then you might as well stop modding your car. No wonder vw's have such a bad rep for being known as "euro-rice". Come on guys.


----------



## VWJTI1.8T (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

I have almost 3k and thats just in the past 2-3 months clutch, body work, High flow fuel pump, nitrous, CAI, Kuhmo Ecstas, and about to drop another 100 or 200 tom so that I can remove my rear seats and put in a computer/ nitrous enclosure in it's place! + my car still isn't running right after the clutch install which was done by a pro and he SCRED it up big time. He left a AXEL SCREW LOOSE!







If your not into spending money and getting 300+ HP out of your 4cyl you should be in the stg1 or stg2 turbo upgrade forum some of us are spending the money to do it all the right way. I will be ordering RAXELS axels somtime this week and ECS front brake upgrade next week. Diff, STG3 or 4 turbo kit, pistons, rods and possible a port and polish this winter so I'd say I'm doing it the right way!!
I'm not flaming anybody just telling my side of the story!
* KATIE: * 
Do you know if we will still be able to run N2O on this chip? Is the timing advanced or retarded in anyway from stock Thanks for you help katie!


_Modified by VWJTI1.8T at 11:59 PM 9-6-2003_


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (VWJTI1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWJTI1.8T* »_Do you know if we will still be able to run N2O on this chip? Is the timing advanced or retarded in anyway from stock Thanks for you help katie!


Garrett is going to push the limit. Plain and simple. The dyno we've all seen was definitely conservative. Just wait til he starts playing with it and ups the boost. Timing will be pushed on all three settings, 91,93, and 100. But run 100 octane on the 93 or 91 settings and spray away. Just hope the rods and rod bolts can handle it.


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_
You'll never learn anything unless you experiment. Coilovers????.....COME ON! Using a friends lift I did the rear in about 15 minutes and the front in about 30. I don't know about you but I trust myself working on my car more than anyone else. Something f#cks up at least I know it's on me. That's just more reason to pay attention to detail. If you don't even have the ambition to learn the in's and out's of your car first hand then you might as well stop modding your car. No wonder vw's have such a bad rep for being known as "euro-rice". Come on guys.









You are unbelieveable.
First off, riceyness and getting your car tuned by a tuning shop have nothing in common. In fact, if you look at most cars that are not Euro rice, i.e. BMWs, Porsches, NO Porsche owners work on their own car. They bring them to $150+ per hour mechanics. Trust me. My family races PCA Cup Porsches. If your logic prevailed, it would be those who work on their cars themselves that drive rice,which, in many cases is why so Hondas and VWs are ricey, because the owners were too cheap to do it the right way with a trained mechanic, and instead ghetto rigging it. I respect someone 100x more who earned the money to have a respected tuning shop do the work CORRECTLY, PERFECTLY, and without any flaws, then someone who tried the install themselves and didn't do a 100% job.
Further, what about those of us who don't have a full set of tools? Or those of us(myself included) in college and grad school that have no garage or area to work on cars. Or those of us who don't have any time? During school, I have no place to work on the car, and at home over the summer I work 60+ hours as a legal clerk/intern. I know many people on Vortex in the same situation.
And finally, what if we enjoy VWs not in knowing how to install parts, or work on them, but instead enjoy driving/racing them? I personally don't care how a VW's suspension should be installed. For $165, it's worth it to me not to risk breaking the car, hurting myself, messing up the install, cutting myself, getting dirty, wasting free time, and buying more and more tools. My suspension install cost me $165, and for that I got a warranty on the work, and peace mind that it is done right the first time. I'm not buying the sum of the parts, I'm buying better handling for my car, and install is part of that cost.
If you like working on your car, so be it, but don't bash those of us who don't.
Also, most people like yourself who share your views are always like "I had a friend help with the cam install," or "I used a friend's lift." I don't have any friends who own lifts or have ever worked on a car. I am the hard-core grease monkey of my friends, and all I've really installed myself are taillights and a Cold Air Intake.
However, I am attempting to install 256 cams myself later this month!


_Modified by VarLordahl at 11:48 PM 9-6-2003_


----------



## "PODIUM" (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

.... 350 pounds of tork is what this is about,,kids and the feed back in the makeing.





















and plenty left.







" (BURRP)"


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (chaugner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_I just sat down and actually calculated what its going to cost me to run in the 300 whp club and I realized its way to much.
$1200 ($200 install) FK Koenigsport Coilovers + Neuspeed Front Sway
$700 ($150 install) FMIC (already ordered it







)
$500 ($150) Custom Dual A-Pillar Pod with 60 mm Greddy Boost and EGT (still lookign on ebay)
$1600 ($400) LSD + Clutch
$4000 ($800) Turbo Kit
those are pretty conservative estimates .. total $9700 of that is $1700 install cost which might not apply if you know the right people or do it yourself.
but all in all I came to the conclusion its out of my range








Damit ... I guess I have to get a second job.

what does coilovers have to do with making 300whp??? sorry if it does... but im not too in to parts tuning


----------



## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
I agree. Even if you are "financing" it on your CC, that is still a very poor financial decision. Pay the car off, then buy toys. No way am I carrying CC debt for any reason.

So im sure im the only person here with a balance on my cc souly for my car parts....







okay.....








Anyway, to stay on topic.... The kit looks great! I can't wait to see some official price figures!


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
Garrett is going to push the limit. Plain and simple. The dyno we've all seen was definitely conservative. Just wait til he starts playing with it and ups the boost. Timing will be pushed on all three settings, 91,93, and 100. But run 100 octane on the 93 or 91 settings and spray away. Just hope the rods and rod bolts can handle it.









Dizzy, you have been right this far on everyting you have mentioned. You're making me very hopeful that this kit will live up to the title on the prelim dyno, Dubwerks monster turbo kit! I think Billy T. got 461 wheel out of his 1.8 when it let go, and I beileve that included N2O as well. Unless this kit is going to give us 500 flywheel HP, I think the motor will hold up fine, granted the driver dosen't abuse it. I hope the prelim numbers are way off from what is to come! That turbo has to be able to put out more boost than 18 or 19 and we aren't even tuned yet







And, I am hoping that DubWerks are the power freaks that someone mentioned. This kit is going to be sick!!!!
Question, I know torque and horsepower curves always cross at 5250, but I am wondering if torque always has to diminish after that point. I ask this looking at the prelim dyno and wondering if that's possible.


_Modified by Super1.8T at 8:40 AM 9-7-2003_


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

7200 is high enough to make some good power.


----------



## VWJTI1.8T (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

bliiy bent his rod at 480HP running at 28PSI and I beleive a 60 or 75 shot!
SO I don't really see the need to do an imediate upgrade of internals for a MEAR 300 HP. 
I would be doing all my own installs I have access to a garage w/ 2 lifts and since it is bolt on it shouldn't be that bad. 
Also remember this is only stg3 currebt stg3 kits range from 3200 for ATP to 4K for APR So since katie said it will be competitive I would asume it will be in that price range! But it will be well worth it w/ the TUBULAR MANI!
What is needed to build our engines and waht is available for our cars as well. 
rods 
pistons
lifters 
what else?


_Modified by VWJTI1.8T at 9:06 AM 9-7-2003_


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (VWJTI1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWJTI1.8T* »_What is needed to build our engines and waht is available for our cars as well. 
rods 
pistons
lifters 
what else?


Lifters aren't needed unless you want to rev it out to 8K+. And you don't need to do that until you get to Billy like power. Rods, rod bolts, pistons, and a crank girdle will do just fine. Leave the crank alone unless going to 2.0 liter. http://www.eurospecsport.com This thread has taken a lot of twists and turns but let's keep it on track. DUBWERKS KIT GIVES THE MASSES WHAT THEY WANT.


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
DUBWERKS KIT GIVES THE MASSES WHAT THEY WANT.









what it really does is gives us a true reason to actually upgrade our setups, hopefully without having to wait too long. 
Katie: Is there any estimated time that you folks would like to have these on order/on the shelves? I know you don't have a hard date but just wondering what time-frame ya'll are looking at.

I can't wait to see some more of what Garrett will do now that we know boost was somewhat minimal compared to what fueling you can have!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (VW4life)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW4life* »_
Katie: Is there any estimated time that you folks would like to have these on order/on the shelves? I know you don't have a hard date but just wondering what time-frame ya'll are looking at.


Rich told me they are shooting for October. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
Rich told me they are shooting for October. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

That's what I want to hear, I had to pass on my APR kit because they couldn't do it in June when I reqeusted and haven't had anytime since to really lay my car down for a couple days...october is my time I can so maybe I can get my hands on a kit ASAP.


----------



## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
Lifters aren't needed unless you want to rev it out to 8K+. And you don't need to do that until you get to Billy like power. Rods, rod bolts, pistons, and a crank girdle will do just fine. Leave the crank alone unless going to 2.0 liter. http://www.eurospecsport.com This thread has taken a lot of twists and turns but let's keep it on track. DUBWERKS KIT GIVES THE MASSES WHAT THEY WANT.









you only go solid lifter as said above like 8 grand, and then your looking at very aggressive cams. to build a bottom end. Your going to need pistons, rods, racewear head studs. I dont think the block girdle is that important for these cars. Primarily the other stuff i mentioned. If you can build it yourself you'll save a ton of money. Also keep in mind, if you want to rev out high, dont go with a 2.0 bottom as the longer 159 rods and increased stroke wont rev as well. Better off going with the 144 stock rod length and going to an 83 bore which gives ya 1.9. Just my suggestion. hehe cant wait.


----------



## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: (drivrswntd)*

Do we know if this turbo is BB ?


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_
You'll never learn anything unless you experiment. Coilovers????.....COME ON! Using a friends lift I did the rear in about 15 minutes and the front in about 30. I don't know about you but I trust myself working on my car more than anyone else. Something f#cks up at least I know it's on me. That's just more reason to pay attention to detail. If you don't even have the ambition to learn the in's and out's of your car first hand then you might as well stop modding your car. No wonder vw's have such a bad rep for being known as "euro-rice". Come on guys.









after reading your comment I realized I am not worthy a VW ... unless you put the parts in yourself you are just an idiot .. you are correct and I bow down to you master of VW.
Glad that I am nice enough and I don;t want to get this thread locked ... otherwise you'd hear more from me.
I will be deleting my vwvortex user name now and never come back.
HAHAHAH you are such a tool. I don;t even know what to answer to you.
Sorry


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (2KGTI-t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2KGTI-t* »_
what does coilovers have to do with making 300whp??? sorry if it does... but im not too in to parts tuning


I would like the car to handle better in corners due to me taking corners at higher speeds and being able to get out of corners like never before .... not sure if that has anything to do with the new power


----------



## Tybolltt (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: (Adam20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Adam20v* »_that graph is pretty and all...but dude, if your going to make a comparison why dont you find a APR stg3 dyno to compare it to. That is a "made up" *crank* horsepower dyno from APR. NOT A REAL DYNO. That entire comparison is not even accurate. 

There is nothing pretty about the dyno of either car. I will say that APR be it finished product, or prelim always makes a ****ty looking curve. GIACs prelim dynos look like crap, but I have yet to see a crappy finished product. 
Edit: Confusion. 


_Modified by Tybolltt at 1:25 PM 9-7-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (16vracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vracer* »_Do we know if this turbo is BB ?

I'll grab my fax from Borg-Warner and try to determine this. I would "think" their premeire line of turbos would be, but who knows? To me, it seems like DubWerks has gone very far to bring this to market and I bet there's no chance that they did not use a non-BB turbo.
Edit: If you can believe, the entire 22 page fax from BW I recieved on Friday gives me no indication whether or not the S line of turbos are BB. My guess though, is yes. ITS, I will guess, would not have even considered being a rep for this turbo if it wasn't. Think about who they are competing against, Garrett of all people, whose entire line of turbos are BB (is this correct?) Looking around at the info I have, I might be able to guess between 1 or 2 turbos, which one they are using, at least the physical dimensions and the housing. Upgraded wheels were mentioned, so output and compressor maps will be different. I thought about posting the info I have, but thinking about it, I wish to respect Rich and Katie's privacy until they decide to tell us all about the kit.


_Modified by Super1.8T at 2:16 PM 9-7-2003_


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: (VWJTI1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWJTI1.8T* »_bliiy bent his rod at 480HP running at 28PSI and I beleive a 60 or 75 shot!
SO I don't really see the need to do an imediate upgrade of internals for a MEAR 300 HP. 
_Modified by VWJTI1.8T at 9:06 AM 9-7-2003_

Rods usually bend from too much cylinder pressure. This usually means too much No2 at too low an rpm. For example the bigger the shot the higher in the rpm's you need to be before you use it. This is compounded by high boost.
But, than we are just guessing as we do not know what happened at the instance of failure.
Rich and Katie, Your new kit looks Kick-Ass!
Moss out.


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (J. Moss)*

iirc billy dynoed 461whp on a 35-40 shot the day or the day before his motor let go.


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*

OMG ITS ON THE SECOND PAGE!!!!
GOTTA BUMP IT DUDE!


_Modified by halchka99 at 8:05 PM 9-7-2003_


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (chaugner)*

Well, I don't want the thread locked either. You can just get back to me the next time a shop is installing something for you and you get screwed and don't know how to fix it yourself because you never took the time to learn.








_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_
after reading your comment I realized I am not worthy a VW ... unless you put the parts in yourself you are just an idiot .. you are correct and I bow down to you master of VW.
Glad that I am nice enough and I don;t want to get this thread locked ... otherwise you'd hear more from me.
I will be deleting my vwvortex user name now and never come back.
HAHAHAH you are such a tool. I don;t even know what to answer to you.
Sorry


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (J. Moss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J. Moss* »_
Rich and Katie, Your new kit looks Kick-Ass!


Where you at Rich?


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Well, I don't want the thread locked either. You can just get back to me the next time a shop is installing something for you and you get screwed and don't know how to fix it yourself because you never took the time to learn.









you mean my mechanic that himself has a 8.5 second car







I trust him more then I trust myself.








EDIT: on the other hand though the guy in my appartment complex just got his car back (IS300) from the shop installing a T66 Kit ... they did a very poor job at it ... air intake pipe pops off under heavy load .. turbo was open without protection ... an open pipe at the bottom of the engine .... and he paid $8K
FYI ... I actually fixed his rough idle and his intake pipe popping off










_Modified by chaugner at 4:02 PM 9-8-2003_


----------



## chim-chim1.8t (Jul 8, 2003)

*Re: (chaugner)*

guys, do you think you can take your arguement to instant messaging... i know that you are both trying to prove to everyone here that you know more than the other, but i'm pretty sure noone here cares.... lets keep this thread to the constantly new info that is available about this kit.... that being said i am 99%sure that it is a ball bearing turbo... and the turbo is an english (England) version of borg-warner


----------



## Stewz-GTI (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (chim-chim1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chim-chim1.8t* »_guys, do you think you can take your arguement to instant messaging... i know that you are both trying to prove to everyone here that you know more than the other, but i'm pretty sure noone here cares.... 

Thank-you. Kate should start a new thread when new info is avail so we can all get away from this HP war BS.


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Stewz-GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stewz-GTI* »_
Thank-you. Kate should start a new thread when new info is avail so we can all get away from this HP war BS.









sorry ... it was only a few posts


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (chaugner)*

Any knew knews?







I suspect Garrett Lim is busy right now working . . . I did some reading up on Garrett and he has done some pretty impressive things. Honestly, I did not know what the man was capable of. The IBE chipswitch feature will be neato to have, now that I know about it a little more. 
Katie and Rich, anything new that can be shared with us at this point? I can't wait to see what Garrett is able to do.


----------



## wolfier (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hey guys/gals! First, let me thank everyone for the overwhelming interest in our kit, this is a very exciting time for us and are very happy that there so many others excited as well.
Okay here is a PRELIMINARY dyno, this is on 91 California octane with Prototype GIAC software. Calculating drive train loss, right now our GTI is doing 326hp to the crank. We are very happy with the results thus far, I will post up final dynos when tuning is finished and when we have 100 octane numbers as well. 









Great!!
One thing tho...correct me if I'm wrong - 326hp is calculated by multiplying the whp by 1.15, assuming a 15% loss.
However, it should really be done by dividing 0.85 instead. You get 334hp. Although it's the wheel hp that matters at the end, doing the right calculation does give more bragging rights...


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: (wolfier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfier* »_
Great!!
One thing tho...correct me if I'm wrong - 326hp is calculated by multiplying the whp by 1.15, assuming a 15% loss.
However, it should really be done by dividing 0.85 instead. You get 334hp. Although it's the wheel hp that matters at the end, doing the right calculation does give more bragging rights...









Someone else noticed this


----------



## nverfollow (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Will this kit be available for the TT 225QC


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_









I know these are preliminary but ... where is the mid-rpm torque?
Also you can't take a smaller number and divide by less than one to get a correct larger number that is equivalent to multiplying by a number greater than one. It is called truncation error, and in this case leads to an error of 8HP on 326HP total, or about 2.5% error. Bragging rights are bragging rights, but there has to be some accuracy in the calculations as well.
Nice kit, nice numbers - beef up that midrange and it is a sure winner !!


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
Also you can't take a smaller number and divide by less than one to get a correct larger number that is equivalent to multiplying by a number greater than one. It is called truncation error, and in this case leads to an error of 8HP on 326HP total, or about 2.5% error. Bragging rights are bragging rights, but there has to be some accuracy in the calculations as well.
Nice kit, nice numbers - beef up that midrange and it is a sure winner !!

well then what's the wheel power of a car with 326 hp? how do you determine wheel from crank?


----------



## lawrencetaylor50 (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: (chaugner)*

man if i get this kit it will cost me so much i will have to spend 500 bucks in diamond plating because my floorboards will keep falling out


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (wolfier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfier* »_
Great!!
One thing tho...correct me if I'm wrong - 326hp is calculated by multiplying the whp by 1.15, assuming a 15% loss.
However, it should really be done by dividing 0.85 instead. You get 334hp. Although it's the wheel hp that matters at the end, doing the right calculation does give more bragging rights...









Ok your wrong.
crank hp is calcuted at about 13-13.5% loss, which would be like dividing by .865 or what happens to conveniently work out to multipling by 1.15, which is where the confusion comes in and people think that means 15%.


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re:*

100hp crank with 13.5% loss would be 86.5whp, right?
86.5x1.15=99.475
86.5/.865=100
I guess ppl came up with multiplying by 1.15 as a shortcut, or because it seems easier, I assume? But it's still not 100% accurate (pun intended







)
If you have whp, then divide by however much % it is of crank. if drivetrain loss is 15%, then divide the whp by 85%(.85). if the loss is 13.5%, then divide by 86.5%(865). not really harder than multiplying by 1.15, and causes less confusion IMHO.
simple math.
back to the topic at hand - the turbo kit! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by genxguy at 1:05 AM 9-9-2003_


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (TheBossman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheBossman* »_getting in on this to track pogress

waaaa?


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (2KGTI-t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2KGTI-t* »_
waaaa?









He is posting in the thread so he can have it in his recent topics..... easier to track that way.


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
well then what's the wheel power of a car with 326 hp? how do you determine wheel from crank?

326x.85=277.1whp, where drivetrain loss is 15%.


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (genxguy)*

i thought our cars only had 12-13% drivetrain loss?


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_*Also you can't take a smaller number and divide by less than one to get a correct larger number that is equivalent to multiplying by a number greater than one.* It is called truncation error, and in this case leads to an error of 8HP on 326HP total, or about 2.5% error. Bragging rights are bragging rights, but there has to be some accuracy in the calculations as well.

I've been asked about this, it is only fair that I clarify what I mean. Take a nice number like 333. "Add" 15% (multiply by 1.15). That gives you 382.95. Now take 333 and divide by 0.85 ("subtract" 15%). That gives you 391.76.
The trick is to find two numbers that multiply together to give you unity. For 1.15 this number is 0.8695, pointed out earlier. Multiply by one, divide by the other. Six of one, half dozen of another.


----------



## Jetta_1.8Tip (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfsburg2* »_i thought our cars only had 12-13% drivetrain loss?

Either way... try to deal with the crazy estimated 21% us Tips prob have.
That and the fact that no one knows yet the hp/tq we can even handle without going blamo. Sigh... Still love the Tip though.
Keep up the good work Rich and Katie http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (Jetta_1.8Tip)*

numbers shmumbers, how about that midrange torque?


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (screwball)*

Almost to page 13! It's gonna be hell waiting to see what is in store!


_Modified by Super1.8T at 6:24 PM 9-9-2003_


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (screwball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *screwball* »_numbers shmumbers, how about that midrange torque?

When you are racing, do you drive in the midrange? Sure that's nice for driveability, but if you wanted to be able to drive around at low rpms without a lot of shifting, you should either A) keep the stock turbo or B) trade it in on a VR6.


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

my question is what are people referring to as mid range? if you take 2000-7000rpms as driveable...mid range would actually be 3700-5300. And i see torque in that range


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (Adam20v)*

I dont necessarily agree with: 
_Quote, originally posted by *Adam20v* »_mid range would actually be 3700-5300.

The power doesnt exceed 200 ft/lbs until probably 4100-4200 rpm. That is some lag. Now once it does hit, it does hit.
Dont get me wrong, this kit does make some serious power. And when you are racing, you arent going to miss the power, you will be right into it.
The comparison is of an APR SIII setup. They easily exceed 200 ft/lbs by 4000, much closer to 3300 or so. That isnt negligible.
So is the life of smaller faster spooling turbos vs. larger and much more powerful turbos. I aint knocking the kit, just merely comparing it. Want a flat torque curve with lots of power, APR SIII. Want to beat an APR SIII and sacrifice some lower-mid torque, dubwerks. These are my assumptions.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (new 337)*

Funny you guys mention this. Corkey Bell's book talks just about this topic. I wish I had permission to post a comparison graph of his, comparing power curves or small, medium, and large turbos. I want the big power, and am willing and glad to take the lag. Plus, I see it easy to drive daily on this thing, based on the graph posted. Nice and gentle down low, perfect for city. Get out and rev it and goodbye!! Boost on command, but even moreso, you can't accidentally get too much power, you gotta go find it up top.
Page 13!










_Modified by Super1.8T at 9:02 PM 9-9-2003_


----------



## genixia (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
I've been asked about this, it is only fair that I clarify what I mean. Take a nice number like 333. "Add" 15% (multiply by 1.15). That gives you 382.95. Now take 333 and divide by 0.85 ("subtract" 15%). That gives you 391.76.


I'll bite.
Starting with 333;
Add 15% = 333 + (333 * 0.15) = 333 * 1.15 = 382.95
Subtract 15% = 333 - (333 * 0.15) = 333 * 0.85 = 283.05, not 391.76
I think that you really meant 'to add 15% by division' and not subtract 15%. In that case;
Add 15% = 333 + (333 * 0.15) = 333 * 1.15 = 333 / ( 1/1.15 ) = 333 / 0.8696 = 382.93.
IIRC, this discussion was started by you stating that multiplicative calculations were more accurate than divisive calculations. I'd refute that - the 1.15 value is the approximation for 13% drivetrain loss; If we had a car with 100CHP, then we'd expect 13HP to be lost, leaving 87WHP. ie, WHP = 0.87 * CHP. Therefore, to find CHP;
CHP = WHP / 0.87. That is accurate. However, since dividing by 0.87 isn't easy to do in your head, we use a multiplicative approximation;
CHP = WHP / 0.87 = WHP * ( 1/0.87 ) = WHP * 1.14925... = WHP * ~1.15
1.15 math is easy to do in your head - divide the WHP by ten, and then that result by two. Add...
In reality it doesn't matter that 1.15 is an approximation. Show me a car with a 13.000% drivetrain loss.


----------



## tazUSC (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (genixia)*

too much math....just be happy with whp and lets hope for more info on the kit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: (tazUSC)*

Of course my whp is gonna be another 10% less than that!!








Its well worth it tho, i bet that mofo will get out of the hole hard. I'm really not worried about the lag issue. Obviously this dyno wasnt to spool the turbo hard, you would think the first real good pull you do is gonna be all out? When it spikes to 20psi and the timing is advanced im sure 300whp/tq will come soon and make it to the 350 range http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Lets just pray they port the programming to my platform!
BTW: Just got done racing around in VA steve's t3/t04 ghetto turbo gti. He was spiking to 22 psi around ~6k and it was pulling SO hard. We had a fun night eating scoobies and a lightning on my private jacksonville race track. I cant wait to bust down on some v8 guys from a stop. 
Kaite, Me and barelyboosting will more then likely both be getting this kit so go ahead reserve two for jville! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by BoostedJetta at 12:09 AM 9-10-2003_


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (BoostedJetta)*

True! So, steves car ride out or what Bobby? I wouldn't know since I don't know anything so I wouldn't know what fast is. At least that's what the "hard to the core dubbers" on here tell me.


----------



## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

Yea were both slow and dont know ****








Call me foo! Just got back from tues night riceville!


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (BoostedJetta)*

True dat.


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: (genixia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *genixia* »_
I'll bite.
Starting with 333;
Add 15% = 333 + (333 * 0.15) = 333 * 1.15 = 382.95
Subtract 15% = 333 - (333 * 0.15) = 333 * 0.85 = 283.05, not 391.76
I think that you really meant 'to add 15% by division' and not subtract 15%. In that case;
Add 15% = 333 + (333 * 0.15) = 333 * 1.15 = 333 / ( 1/1.15 ) = 333 / 0.8696 = 382.93.
IIRC, this discussion was started by you stating that multiplicative calculations were more accurate than divisive calculations. I'd refute that - the 1.15 value is the approximation for 13% drivetrain loss; If we had a car with 100CHP, then we'd expect 13HP to be lost, leaving 87WHP. ie, WHP = 0.87 * CHP. Therefore, to find CHP;
CHP = WHP / 0.87. That is accurate. However, since dividing by 0.87 isn't easy to do in your head, we use a multiplicative approximation;
CHP = WHP / 0.87 = WHP * ( 1/0.87 ) = WHP * 1.14925... = WHP * ~1.15
1.15 math is easy to do in your head - divide the WHP by ten, and then that result by two. Add...
In reality it doesn't matter that 1.15 is an approximation. Show me a car with a 13.000% drivetrain loss.


No doubt, I mixed my words, _again._ Not to make an excuse, but it has been a long day.







You did a much better job clarifying my point that I did, thank you.


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfsburg2* »_iirc billy dynoed 461whp on a 35-40 shot the day or the day before his motor let go. 

The more pressure per power cycle you have the later you have to start the No2.


----------



## -Pascal (Dec 11, 2002)

*Re: (new 337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *new 337* »_The power doesnt exceed 200 ft/lbs until probably 4100-4200 rpm. *That is some lag.* Now once it does hit, it does hit.

Can you guys please stop misusing this term?
Simple:
*Boost Threshold:* RPM level at which there is enough exhaust energy available to spool up the turbo.
*Turbo Lag:* Time it takes for a turbo to spool up while *engine rpm is above the boost threshold*! 
I'm sure the Dubwerks setup's turbo has virtually no lag. It appears it's boost threshold is rather high for now, indeed. Let's see if they can lower that a bit with refinements, I'm really looking forward to it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 19, 2000)

*Re: (-Pascal)*

_Boost Threshold: RPM level at which there is enough exhaust energy available to spool up the turbo._ 
"Spool" is ambiguous is it not? Shouldn't the definition be "RPM level at which there is enough exhaust energy available to spin the turbine at enough speed such that positive intake manifold pressure is seen" ?


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ "Spool" is ambiguous is it not? Shouldn't the definition be "RPM level at which there is enough exhaust energy available to spin the turbine at enough speed such that positive intake manifold pressure is seen" ?


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

sorry to jump in here so late and ask stupid questions....(i dont have time to read all 13 pages) ...
whats the production/retail date of this system? or is it too soon to tell?
Reason being is that im looking soon to upgrade and im wondering if this is coming soon, or isnt going to be out for months.
-Beaker


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Beaker In RPG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beaker In RPG* »_sorry to jump in here so late and ask stupid questions....(i dont have time to read all 13 pages) ...
whats the production/retail date of this system? or is it too soon to tell?
Reason being is that im looking soon to upgrade and im wondering if this is coming soon, or isnt going to be out for months.
-Beaker

we are all still waiting for that


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (Beaker In RPG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beaker In RPG* »_sorry to jump in here so late and ask stupid questions....(i dont have time to read all 13 pages) ...
whats the production/retail date of this system? or is it too soon to tell?
Reason being is that im looking soon to upgrade and im wondering if this is coming soon, or isnt going to be out for months.
-Beaker

no release date... go read all 13 pages... its a blast...


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (Beaker In RPG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beaker In RPG* »_sorry to jump in here so late and ask stupid questions....(i dont have time to read all 13 pages) ...
whats the production/retail date of this system? or is it too soon to tell?
Reason being is that im looking soon to upgrade and im wondering if this is coming soon, or isnt going to be out for months.
-Beaker

i'm tired of people saying this. take 20 minutes and read the entire thread. unless of course you are doing a turbo upgrade in the next fifteen minutes and you can't spare the time...sheesh!


----------



## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

its sad that youre upset about the fact that i posted a simple question in a post in this thread and took up maybe 2kb of your mailbox space from the notification. Not to mention I did appologise in advance for asking the question.
So then why did you waste your time replying? you didnt even take the time to answer me and say "no one knows yet, we are all waiting" but no, you had to b1tch about it like a typical vortexer.
Yes, i know i spent more time posting this then it would have taken me to read through all 13 pages of this thread, but I just wanted to point out that you b1tching about something so petty got none of us no where. So do us all a favor and keep your whining to yourself.
Mom always said "if you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything at all" 
....words to live by, kid.








(lets get back on topic please)
Thanks for the replies 2KGTI-t and chaugner.
-Beaker


----------



## spoolin (Jan 3, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
i'm tired of people saying this. take 20 minutes and read the entire thread. unless of course you are doing a turbo upgrade in the next fifteen minutes and you can't spare the time...sheesh!









some people woke up on the wrong side of the bed....







HAHA J/K. Heck I dont want to read all the 13 pages of people arguing points when they have no idea what they are talking about








I just wanna see some numbers and price....... 


_Modified by spoolin at 3:42 PM 9-10-2003_


----------



## 02GTI1.8t (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: (-Pascal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Pascal* »_
Can you guys please stop misusing this term?
Simple:
*Boost Threshold:* RPM level at which there is enough exhaust energy available to spool up the turbo.
*Turbo Lag:* Time it takes for a turbo to spool up while *engine rpm is above the boost threshold*! 
I'm sure the Dubwerks setup's turbo has virtually no lag. It appears it's boost threshold is rather high for now, indeed. Let's see if they can lower that a bit with refinements, I'm really looking forward to it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

looks like someones been reading maximum boost! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (Beaker In RPG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beaker In RPG* »_its sad that youre upset about the fact that i posted a simple question in a post in this thread and took up maybe 2kb of your mailbox space from the notification. Not to mention I did appologise in advance for asking the question.
So then why did you waste your time replying? you didnt even take the time to answer me and say "no one knows yet, we are all waiting" but no, you had to b1tch about it like a typical vortexer.
Yes, i know i spent more time posting this then it would have taken me to read through all 13 pages of this thread, but I just wanted to point out that you b1tching about something so petty got none of us no where. So do us all a favor and keep your whining to yourself.
Mom always said "if you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything at all" 
....words to live by, kid.








(lets get back on topic please)
Thanks for the replies 2KGTI-t and chaugner.
-Beaker

first of all, MANY people feel like i do, but don't say it. i actually say what i feel and so i get sh!t on..i can deal with that no biggie. 13 pages is not a long thread....when you get to 30+ give me a holler. i just hate lazy people. same people who ask, hey i don't want to read this thread about intakes, can someone just do all the hard work for me and tell me which one to buy? oh ya.....and which color too?







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Blue.Jester.02Gti (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (spoolin)*

gonna keep track of this topic...
(please dont flame)
but the bickering sounds like a bunch of valley girls.. but with much bigger words and very little use of the word "like"


----------



## cburkart (Jan 10, 2000)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FreshieMedia* »_
first of all, MANY people feel like i do, but don't say it...

Yes, except this time I *am* saying it. Beaker's reply was out of line and rude.


----------



## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (cburkart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cburkart* »_
Yes, except this time I *am* saying it. Beaker's reply was out of line and rude.

I do believe frenhies original lash out at me was rude, I just took it and threw it back in his face.
To everyone I have offended by asking a simple question, please do not forget *I DID * appologise for asking the question before I asked it. 
I forgot how touchy you wh0retex kids are


----------



## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (cburkart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cburkart* »_
Yes, except this time I *am* saying it. Beaker's reply was out of line and rude.

I do believe frenhies original lash out at me was rude, I just took it and threw it back in his face.
To everyone I have offended by asking a simple question, please do not forget *I DID * apologize for asking the question before I asked it. 
I forgot how touchy and sensitive you wh0retex kids are








-Beaker


----------



## Dr. Edlocks (Mar 8, 2001)

*Back to technical discussion....*


_Quote »_


----------



## -Pascal (Dec 11, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_"Spool" is ambiguous is it not? Shouldn't the definition be "RPM level at which there is enough exhaust energy available to spin the turbine at enough speed such that positive intake manifold pressure is seen" ?


Shaun, you couldn't be more right. I purposely left it out to keep the sentence short and encourage people to read it. Your explanation is the proper one however.


----------



## GTbuzz (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (-Pascal)*

let's clean this garbage up mods.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (GTbuzz)*

Please don't lock the thread . . .


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

Please please PLEASE don't get this thread locked guys..... I'm waiting with baited breath for some more info on this Dubwerks. Spot on so far, and that is the finest looking manifold I've seen as a potential commercial piece.








Coupla questions: (A few of these are repeats, I know, but I don't believe they've been answered as of yet; and a few of these are stupid/pointless, cause I'm dumb. I don't need the flame crew to remind me.







)
1. What are the stats on the turbo? Can we get a compressor map? is it BB? Etc...
2. While you've never actually said 300WHP/LBFT, that seems to be everyone's assumption. Any truth to that? (I don't really expect you to answer this one, it just had to be asked.)
3. What are the PROJECTED price points for the kit/install, and will the kit be available piece-meal at any time? (This one either...)
4. Will a new DP come provided with the kit, or will an adapter be made up to run the stock location?
5. How about on the other end of the Turbo? Can we run the same intake and intercooler set ups, or will you be offering adapters/custom versions as part of the kit/as upgrades?
5. Well the system run on other software types? (Revo/Upsolute/APR, etc...) and will we be able to adapt it to stand alone? (Tec3/Modified AEM?)
6. I assume Garret is going to make this new software adjustable, right? Will it be a flash program or a new chip?
7. Is the turbo watercooled or just oil cooled?
That's me, asking the questions other people are to smart to ask...


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (Deadking)*

2 That is true.
3 unknown price and no, the kit won't be available on a piece by piece basis
5a It will use stock IC piping allowing any FMIC. I'm also assuming a new TIH/P due to the larger MAF. 
5b Of course it will run on standalone and other softwares, obviously better on tuned standalone, but, the engine managment is seperate from the turbo hardware.
6 Software will not be adjustable, but will be IBE compatible with a race file, valet, kill, etc. If you don't know what IBE is, look it up.
7 Turbo is just oil cooled but lines will still be present and easily able to accept another turbo with coolant jackets (like any other T3 flanged turbo you want.







)
That's all I know.


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

Thanks for the info Dizzy. Hope we can get more soon...
OH YEAH!!!! Just thought of one other *Really important question!!!
Will there be financing to qualified buyers????* 








Goog to see this forum back on track. Hopefully I can find IBE through the WONDERFUL VWVortex Search....


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (Deadking)*

For anyone else who DON'T wanna search:
SPS is to REVO
as
IBE is to GIAC (plus nefty Remote Control capability)
From AWE Tuning's site:
"IBE stands for Intelligent Buswidth Expander and it is the first and only fully self contained remote controlled device available. What sets GIAC's IBE apart from the competition is its ability to reuse the actual stock chip from your ECU. Reusing the original stock chip makes the GIAC IBE truly invisible, allowing new car dealers to upload the latest factory updates. Other chip switchers on the market do not permit dealer software uploads, which is a dead giveaway that your ECU has been modified."
There words, not mine, so don't flame here if you disagree.










_Modified by Deadking at 9:30 PM 9-11-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Deadking)*

Has anyone noticed where the compressor outlet side of the turbo is in relation to the throttle body inlet? If you guessed on the opposite side, your a winner! Think about this, this allows us to use a FMIC with in and out on the oppoite side, just like I wanted







and a without having to swap to a TT225 manifold. Someone really did their homework!
I imagine that they'll provide some sort of downpipe adapter, so it can work with a GHL (or any other) exhaust. I really hope they use V-band clamps throughout. That is how is should be done, IMHO.
I don't mind at all if the turbo is only oil cooled. Sure, water cooled would be nice, but it's the airflow and max power I am concerend about. Change your oil frequently enough and cool the turbo down and the only thing that will suffer is oil life. Since I use 8100 Motul and change mine religiously (I won't say how soon, but someone else could probably reuse it) I could care less about the water cooling if it doesn't have it. But great if it does.
I really hope this kit can squeeze at least 375 flywheel out on race gas. Would I be crazy if I said 400 flywheel on race gas? Who wants to bet they were teasing us with that first dyno? Looks like a baseline to me. And they were just getting started. I'll guess 18 to 19 psi might be medium for that turbo, with at least another 5psi to go being efficient.
So . . . my guess is at minimum 375 flywheel on race gas. Do 400 flywheel and I'll be beating down DubWerk's door!


_Modified by Super1.8T at 5:18 PM 9-11-2003_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

Hello everyone!








Maybe I should hire Dizzy huh?








We are using the Borg Warner Airwerks S2 Turbo which is the smallest of the S2A platform, for the numbers we are looking for, we felt upgrading the compressor wheel was a great way for us to go. We are looking for 300 whp on pump gas.
This is an oil lubed and cooled turbo. 
This non ball bearing turbo flows 37 lbs per minute which is very respectable, the GT25 flows 28 lbs and the T28 flows 32 lbs. Where as something like the T04 60-1 flows 65 lbs.
A compressor map is coming soon, it is being converted from metric to standard.
Some questions have been asked about downpipes, this kit is being based around the Techtonics 2.5" downpipe. We have been using Techtonics exhaust products for many years and are very happy with their products and fitment. We understand there are many downpipes available these days for the 1.8T, we are going to do our best to accomodate for the more popular downpipes on the market, but this will be done over time and we can only go so far with all the options out there, we will be working on an adapter for 3" as well. There are just so many variables with aftermarket downpipes, such as bends and where flex joints are located.
You will be able to use a FMIC as well, right now this is based off a factory intercooler setup. We will be installing the Evolution Motorsports FMIC on our 1.8T Test car once software is finalized with factory intercooler.
There is so many options for alot of different products on the 1.8T, we are going to try to do our best to make this kit workable with some of the options on the market, we understand we cannot make it usable with everything on the market and hope that all of you will understand as well. 
You have all been really great with emails and IMs and we really appreciate all or your excitement as we are just as excited.







I know that debates are going to happen (this is vortex)







just lets try to keep them all friendly debates, everyone on here has one common interest, Volkswagens and I know there are alot of great people on here no matter which mods they chose for their own vehicle. Just lets respect eachother. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks again!!


----------



## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

Thanks for the update Katie, read my sig!!


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_Has anyone noticed where the compressor outlet side of the turbo is in relation to the throttle body inlet? If you guessed on the opposite side, your a winner! Think about this, this allows us to use a FMIC with in and out on the oppoite side, just like I wanted







and a without having to swap to a TT225 manifold. Someone really did their homework!
I imagine that they'll provide some sort of downpipe adapter, so it can work with a GHL (or any other) exhaust. I really hope they use V-band clamps throughout. That is how is should be done, IMHO.

I dont understand the significance of having the outlet on the opposite side. And I dont see how that warrants "They did their homework." Help me out here.
EDITTED:
It would be nice to use any downpipe, but why? To save a couple hundred bux?


_Modified by new 337 at 4:00 PM 9-11-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (new 337)*

Okay, I guess I overstated that. I meant to say that someone was thinking when they built the kit because the compressor is on the opposite side the stock intake manifold. IMO that is perfect with those of us with a stock manifold. Katie mentioned a FMIC they had in mind, but if I remember I don't think that one has the in and out on the oppostie side, so now I am confused.


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

Yeah, but none of that thinking really matters now.
They are setting everything up using the stock intercooler, so it will bolt to that, may include a different charge pipe and such. But if it is meant to bolt to the stock intercooler route, then you still have all the choices. Sounds like you wanted to do something custom.
The APR/Wolks/EVO seem to be the best design now, all utilizing the stock path. Since they plan on using the EVO down the line, I am sure it will produce what you want. Seems like you are kinda wanting a core like the preliminary Forge setup? Regardless, if it uses the stock intercooling plumbing, you can use any of the IC kits available for our engines. That is GREAT news, you can mix and match instead of having the only solution be custom. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (new 337)*

Man I must be numb . . . someone's gotta explain this to me, I don't see it. The outlet of the turbo on the left (sitting in driver's seat). Stock intercooler is on the right. How are you going to get back to where the stock piping is from where the outlet of their turbo is? That's gonna be one super long pipe!


_Modified by Super1.8T at 7:20 PM 9-11-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

Okay, I think I can see it now. The outlet is not so much to one side as I thought. It looks about in the middle. So I guess you could run the pipe either way. I hope that it is possible to make a pipe kit to go out the turbo, to the right (facing car), down the headlight, to intercooler, out intercooler, around the other headlight, and into throttle body. Make sense?


_Modified by Super1.8T at 7:26 PM 9-11-2003_


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

It doesnt appear to be in a much different spot then the stock turbo. Are you sure you are looking at the right spot? Have you looked at how long that charge pipe is, the one that turns down behind the engine?
I measured it out, it is over 6 feet in length in piping from turbo to TB. Adding 1 foot isnt going to make a difference.
EDIT:
Yeah, that does make sense. It would be just like the preliminary forge kit, just backwards. I still dont know why that is so important tho. There is nothing wrong with the EVO/Wolks/APR style setup.


_Modified by new 337 at 4:29 PM 9-11-2003_


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (new 337)*

I am no mechanical engineer by any means! But it makes more sense to me to run the air in one side of the intercooler and out the other. Kinda makes me think too hard to think about how the air is going to travel being crammed into one side and out the same side.
Now how strange is this, Forge has a 1.8T intercooler with in and out on both sides. But, I have also seen an exact intercooler like this, but with the in and out on different sides for the VR6 by Forge. But, going to their site and trying to pull it up, it is as if it does not exist anymore. Now I KNOW I saw that thing. Am I going nuts?
Thank you Katie for the update! I'll admit I was dead wrong on which turbo I thought you guys were using. Only info I had though was on the S2B line. Looks like I need a maximum boost turbo class . . .


_Modified by Super1.8T at 7:52 PM 9-11-2003_


----------



## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

i have that forger intecooler forsale in the classifieds section. in and out opposite sides. brand new. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1018913


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (drivrswntd)*

Man, I knew I wasn't imagining things. Has forge stopped making that? I'll tell you, I'd grab that from you in a sec if I had the turbo kit in hand!. It's the same dimensions as the 1.8T intercooler, right, just different endtanks?


----------



## chim-chim1.8t (Jul 8, 2003)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

doh... i was wrong, it is not a ball bearing turbo... but i was only 90% sure


----------



## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_Man, I knew I wasn't imagining things. Has forge stopped making that? I'll tell you, I'd grab that from you in a sec if I had the turbo kit in hand!. It's the same dimensions as the 1.8T intercooler, right, just different endtanks?

you are correct.


----------



## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: (drivrswntd)*

posted edited because I skipped the last part of page 13 before I typed my reply

















_Modified by 16vracer at 9:06 PM 9-11-2003_


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: (16vracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vracer* »_They are going to install an EVO FMIC as soon as they are instock again. Yes, I am 100% sure on this. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I got a little inside info

which should be in pretty soon, and i should have one pending fitment behind my eurobumper.


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (VW4life)*

Thanks for the update Dubwerks! Kit is looking HOT. Waiting patiently for even more info, and thanks for trying to lock down the Compressor Map. Now....About that Financing....


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (Deadking)*

more info... btw... this thread will NEVER die... muhahahahahahahaaa


----------



## Kaj17 (Nov 11, 2002)

How reliable will this kit be?...will this much power make the car less reliable? 
And what makes the APR kit so reliable?


----------



## turbo337 (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: (Kaj17)*

do u guyz think that a DUBWERKZ kit will work on a REVO software?
It'll be sweet!!!
____________
337: BaileyDV30...K&N filter


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (turbo337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbo337* »_do u guyz think that a DUBWERKZ kit will work on a REVO software?
It'll be sweet!!!
____________
337: BaileyDV30...K&N filter

sure it will work, but why? garret is writing software custom for the setup and he knows his stuff, but by all means try it out, it's worth a shot!


----------



## AVANT (Jun 25, 2001)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

Since they are doing all that engineering, maybe they can make it so I don't have to buy a new downpipe! If so, even if APR and this kit puts down the same power, I'd save money since I already got my turboback.


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (AVANT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AVANT* »_Since they are doing all that engineering, maybe they can make it so I don't have to buy a new downpipe! If so, even if APR and this kit puts down the same power, I'd save money since I already got my turboback.

Yes! It shouldn't be that hard to machine a new piece to keep the stock mounting location/flange, right? Pretty please Dubwerks?


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
Yes! It shouldn't be that hard to machine a new piece to keep the stock mounting location/flange, right? Pretty please Dubwerks?

if you guys read back about a page or so katie makes mention about how they are designing the kit to work with the TT 2.5" downpipe and that it also "should" work with a few other aftermarket dp's but nothing is set in stone aside from knowing the TT for sure will work.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
We are using the Borg Warner Airwerks S2 Turbo which is the smallest of the S2A platform, for the numbers we are looking for, we felt upgrading the compressor wheel was a great way for us to go. We are looking for 300 whp on pump gas.
This is an oil lubed and cooled turbo. 
This non ball bearing turbo flows 37 lbs per minute which is very respectable, the GT25 flows 28 lbs and the T28 flows 32 lbs. Where as something like the T04 60-1 flows 65 lbs.
A compressor map is coming soon, it is being converted from metric to standard.
_
Some questions have been asked about downpipes, this kit is being based around the Techtonics 2.5" downpipe. We have been using Techtonics exhaust products for many years and are very happy with their products and fitment. We understand there are many downpipes available these days for the 1.8T, we are going to do our best to accomodate for the more popular downpipes on the market, but this will be done over time and we can only go so far with all the options out there, we will be working on an adapter for 3" as well. There are just so many variables with aftermarket downpipes, such as bends and where flex joints are located._
You will be able to use a FMIC as well, right now this is based off a factory intercooler setup. We will be installing the Evolution Motorsports FMIC on our 1.8T Test car once software is finalized with factory intercooler.
There is so many options for alot of different products on the 1.8T, we are going to try to do our best to make this kit workable with some of the options on the market, we understand we cannot make it usable with everything on the market and hope that all of you will understand as well.


----------



## Harryhd (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
You have all been really great with emails and IMs and we really appreciate all or your excitement as we are just as excited.







I know that debates are going to happen (this is vortex)







just lets try to keep them all friendly debates, everyone on here has one common interest, Volkswagens and I know there are alot of great people on here no matter which mods they chose for their own vehicle. Just lets respect eachother. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks again!! 

This shows true professionalism. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
Yes! It shouldn't be that hard to machine a new piece to keep the stock mounting location/flange, right? Pretty please Dubwerks?

Please, please???


----------



## VortexNinja (Mar 25, 2003)

*Re: (Kaj17)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kaj17* »_How reliable will this kit be?...will this much power make the car less reliable? 
And what makes the APR kit so reliable?


Part of Dubwerks/GIAC Kit:









APR's Kit



















































































































































































































_Modified by VortexNinja at 4:46 AM 9-14-2003_


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: (VortexNinja)*

What is your point?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (J. Moss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J. Moss* »_What is your point?

exactly...What do those pictures have to do with anything?


----------



## Tybolltt (Sep 13, 2001)

So we are comparing the hardware of a not even close to finished kit with APRs completed kit? That is retarded. 
If Innovative is making the hardware for this kit, you can bet the wife that it's going to be spot on. 
APRs tuning is laughable, period. The turbo they have on their kit should be capable of 300whp on pump, why doesnt it make that much?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tybolltt* »_So we are comparing the hardware of a not even close to finished kit with APRs completed kit? That is retarded. 
APRs tuning is laughable, period. The turbo they have on their kit should be capable of 300whp on pump, why doesnt it make that much? 

Try getting the apr fan group to understand that


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tybolltt* »_ So we are comparing the hardware of a not even close to finished kit with APRs completed kit? That is retarded. If Innovative is making the hardware for this kit, you can bet the wife that it's going to be spot on. 
APRs tuning is laughable, period. The turbo they have on their kit should be capable of 300whp on pump, why doesnt it make that much? 















I can see the haters flaming now . . . 
Agreed, we'll have to wait and see what things are included with Dubwerk's kit. To support their goal WHP, you must include injectors, fuel pump, etc, etc.


----------



## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tybolltt* »_The turbo they have on their kit should be capable of 300whp on pump, why doesnt it make that much? 

correct ... the turbo is very well capable of it. i believe the biggest problem is fueling - the apr stage 3 kit comes w/ off-the-shelf 225TT injectors which are already nearly maxed out on the stage 3. they do supply a larger fuel pump & 4bar fpr, but i'd still like to see how the kit improve w/ a new map for larger injectors.


_Modified by whizbang18T at 7:34 AM 9-14-2003_


----------



## Tybolltt (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whizbang18T* »_
correct ... the turbo is very well capable of it. i believe the biggest problem is fueling - the apr stage 3 kit comes w/ off-the-shelf 225TT injectors which are already nearly maxed out on the stage 3. they do supply a larger fuel pump & 4bar fpr, but i'd still like to see how the kit improve w/ a new map for larger injectors.
Your right it is fueling, so what that means is Todd/Brad/Willy all decided when putting this kit together that injectors wouldn't be the limiting factor, and that their customers should only get 250-270whp on pump. 
Let me ask you this. If the turbo they specced was for over 300whp on pump, why are you only getting 260? Do you think that they did it for some reason other than 'longevity'?
_Modified by whizbang18T at 7:34 AM 9-14-2003_


----------



## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

i honestly don't know ... 300whp is attainable on the 104oct prog, but the topic is pump gas ... like i said, it'd be nice if they would come up w/ a, say, "stage 3+" for bigger injectors to hit 300whp on pump ... my guess is they stuck to 225TT injectors to keep down costs (or larger profit margin) ... either way i think some of the stage 3 guys wouldn't mind forking over a few hundred bucks to hit the mark


----------



## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

most people don't realize that there's nothing completely "bullet-proof." realize your car was originally designed as sporty econobox & not a race car. anytime you start making more power than orginally spec'd, you will find weakness in other parts of the system regardless of what turbo kit you get. in my case, the tranny -- i've had minor tranny problems even since my k04 days.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

Katie, will that turbo maintain max flow to redline and still stay effieicent? Could someone help me figure out what 37 p/m flow rate corresponds to? For example, 1.8T @ 7000 RPM, how many psi will 37 p/m coresspond to? (not sure how to figure this out). Can't wait to get that thing on and run through the gears, pullling, pulling, and not letting up!








Been doing some thinking . . . non-BB turbo does not bother me really. The extra cost is probably why the BB option was not chosen? I am more concerned with the amount of air that thing flows, and if it will do it all the way to redling staying efficient. Also, oil cooled turbo does not bother me much either. Change the oil frequently and you'll be fine. Someone should come over and snap a few pics of my oil shelf in the garage. You guys would probably laugh your ass off








I know I would change the oil soon enough.

Today I was hunting for intercoolers that would match up with this kit. Still, I don't prefer intercoolers with both the in and out on the same side. Hard to admit it, but there's a post featuring pics for the greddy FMIC, and I will say it looks impressive. Dude had to do some hacking to get it in there. I have always steered away from Greddy because of what I have seen on all the Japaneese cars in the area. But, they do make quality stuff. The core was designed with in and out on different sides, and they have two core size choices. But, researching, there are no instructions included with the kit, and the piping included lacks an N75 hose port. What is that about? Don't 95% of us need that??
Was also thinking about a front bumper that would fit a large intercooler uner without too much hacking. R32 and Votex looked nice while maintaining the stock lines. The design of the front end makes it difficult for large FMIC's to me mounted. I guess I need to take the front bumper cover off and take a look for myself.
Bump for excitement







Bump for any more information. I need to go research how this turbo flows compared to GT30, T3T4 50 trim, etc.


----------



## TreyS (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

I want this yesterday!!!


----------



## SAVWaterWagens (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: (TreyS)*

I wanted this 2 Days ago


----------



## WindnWar (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: (SAVWaterWagens)*

If this turbo was in a ball bearing format I wonder how much sooner it would spool, maybe 500 rpms sooner? 


_Modified by WindnWar at 4:26 PM 9-15-2003_


----------



## 2boosted (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tybolltt* »_So we are comparing the hardware of a not even close to finished kit with APRs completed kit? That is retarded. 
If Innovative is making the hardware for this kit, you can bet the wife that it's going to be spot on. 
APRs tuning is laughable, period. The turbo they have on their kit should be capable of 300whp on pump, why doesnt it make that much? 
very true, about both innovative and apr.


----------



## DimcheMKV (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: (2boosted)*

yup yup, anytime now,,,APR Stage III kits will be swept under the rug lol









Just messin!!!! Aprs kits nice, but im not willing to spend that much on it, once again dubwerks!!! Some more info plzzz, numbers, price, something, anything...Somethin soon too plz so it makes me go get another job for the winter so i can start saving saving saving!!!


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (DimcheMKV)*

Bump-a-dump.
Waiting as patiently as humanly possible!!


----------



## Vr6en (May 22, 2001)

*Re: (Deadking)*

I wonder if the official name will be Dubwerks 'BallBuster' turbo kit


----------



## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (DimcheMKV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DimcheMKV* »_yup yup, anytime now,,,APR Stage III kits will be swept under the rug lol









Just messin!!!! Aprs kits nice, but im not willing to spend that much on it, once again dubwerks!!! Some more info plzzz, numbers, price, something, anything...Somethin soon too plz so it makes me go get another job for the winter so i can start saving saving saving!!!









Dubwerks will be just as much as apr. They could charge more if they wanted to. Think about this from a marketing point of view. 4 grand you get apr 260ish at the wheel on pump. or you could get our dubworks kit, get about 325 at the wheel on pump, a nice tubular manifold, external wastegate and its only 1000 bucks more. realistically, i wouldnt be surprised if they charged 5 grand. Its much better than apr is.


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (drivrswntd)*

How do you KNOW it's going to be the same price as APR? They already said it's going to be priced competitively. Can't do much competing if it's priced the same as APR. I'm sticking with my $3.5k estimate. It's competive yet still WELL worth the price.


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_How do you KNOW it's going to be the same price as APR? They already said it's going to be priced competitively. Can't do much competing if it's priced the same as APR. I'm sticking with my $3.5k estimate. It's competive yet still WELL worth the price.

well cause think of it this way:
turbo 1500
mani. 1000 (cause it's that pretty)
chip 700 (that's how much the ko4 chip is for awd)
well that's 3200 bones right there not including other parts that you will need + a mark up...I say it will be pretty much the same price as APR...


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (kilmer420)*

Where are you pulling that turbo price from? Do you really think an "Airwerks" ROLLER-bearing turbo is going to be the same price as a DUAL BALL BEARING GT30?????? You're crazy. I give the cost on this turbo $1k TOPS and I wouldn't even pay that for it if it didn't come with the kit. Hell, you can buy a t66 cheaper than that!


----------



## Jman5000 (Nov 8, 1999)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

"Cost" is one thing. Cost + profit is another.
I'd imagine this will be $4500 minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if it were $6K.


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Jman5000)*

If someone is willing to throw down more than $4k for this kit then I think I'll have to give up on all you dubbers.


----------



## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: (drivrswntd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drivrswntd* »_realistically, i wouldnt be surprised if they charged 5 grand. Its much better than apr is.

I agree about it probably being more than the apr kit...but it being much better than apr







I am not sure about that...more power...probably...more reliable probably not...I am sure Garett's software will be nice...but how reliable this kit is gonna be is just a matter of time...Hope everything turns out great...nice to see another tuning option..


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (kilmer420)*

What is there to be unreliable? The turbo itself, maybe. But the programming is what determines reliability. And GIAC and Dubwerks are being conservative with the boost maps so far.


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*

to insult apr's tuning is just silly. flat out what other kit is out there right now that is a true bolt on kit that produces consistent results?
a:NONE
giac hasn't tuned one yet, upsolute hasn't, revo hasn't, weterhauer hasn't. autotech hasn't, greddy hasn't, ams hasn't
come on man bash apr for being elitest but not for poor tuning. if you want all out power go somewhere else. all out drag cars are not their target. 
if this is gonna stay a dw/giac thread then leave apr out of it. tons of people dislike apr post about it somewhere else. and let this kit come out before you start proclaiming how much better it will be than apr's kit that has been out for over a year already!~!!!!!!


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfsburg2* »_and let this kit come out before you start proclaiming how much better it will be than apr's kit that has been out for over a year already!~!!!!!!
!

I think when we say better we mean better performance and with just a beta dyno it already proved that its BETTER then APR.


----------



## Tybolltt (Sep 13, 2001)

using a gt28 for 260 odd wheel horsepower is silly. Without question. TyrolSports system is superior, and I mean that in the most snotty way possible. 
This kit will be better in nearly everyway once it comes out. And i will personally eat my words if it doesn't blow APRs out of the water. I'll dedicate and entire off topic thread to how much I suck. 
K?


----------



## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*

hahaha well said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (halchka99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *halchka99* »_
I think when we say better we mean better performance and with just a beta dyno it already proved that its BETTER then APR.

yep... its still going under the r/d still... no production of the kit... in my eyes it has surpassed the apr kit... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for dubwerks


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tybolltt* »_using a gt28 for 260 odd wheel horsepower is silly. 

Garrett Turbos rates the turbocharger that we use at 290hp (crank). (Of course what really matters is outlined on the compressor and turbine maps.) If you do not think that the naming convention matches the output level, you may want to take that up with Garrett Turbos.
There is good reason why our kit makes such good midrange torque. That is because the turbocharger is reasonably sized for the application. We could have killed the midrange and used a larger turbocharger better suited for the highest RPM flow rates to get better peak HP numbers but we chose NOT to do this because we were concerned with drivability and power under the curve (as opposed to peak HP numbers.) Any improvements that we make to our kit in the future will not be at the expense of drivability or mid-range torque. (There have been several interesting advances in turbo wheel design that would be applicable to our kit and are currently being investigated.)


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Nice hijack! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Both kits are aimed at two different groups. Our kit is being designed to go towards the racer friendly crowd, people who do want more horsepower. We wanted more power yes, is that all we are concerned about? No, of course not. I'm sure many options were weighed in developing the APR kit as we have weighed our options as well. APR and dub werks have different goals, the APR kit may not be for everyone as the dw kit may not be for everyone, we are happy to be offering another alternative to the 1.8T drivers and hopefully with all the options out there, everyone can be taken care of.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (new 337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *new 337* »_Nice hijack! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









I wouldnt' call it a hijack. I was going to bring that point up earlier that the turbo is not rated for what tybollt is claiming it to be, he was just defending APR against an untrue statement.


----------



## TurboBeetle1 (Jan 10, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

I couldnt read all fifteen pages, but I am taking it for granite that this is only for golfs and jettas and beetles will be left out once again?


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
I wouldnt' call it a hijack. I was going to bring that point up earlier that the turbo is not rated for what tybollt is claiming it to be, he was just defending APR against an untrue statement.

I understand Brett's first statement, just like you said, defending the Garret turbo line and HP ratings, etc, but not the 2nd paragraph:

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
There is good reason why our kit makes such good midrange torque. That is because the turbocharger is reasonably sized for the application. We could have killed the midrange and used a larger turbocharger better suited for the highest RPM flow rates to get better peak HP numbers but we chose NOT to do this because we were concerned with drivability and power under the curve (as opposed to peak HP numbers.) Any improvements that we make to our kit in the future will not be at the expense of drivability or mid-range torque. (There have been several interesting advances in turbo wheel design that would be applicable to our kit and are currently being investigated.)

Everyone knows this. I call that a hijack.
EDIT: How many times does he say "OUR KIT".


_Modified by new 337 at 4:33 PM 9-15-2003_


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (new 337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *new 337* »_
Everyone knows this. I call that a hijack.
EDIT: How many times does he say "OUR KIT".


I'll definitly give you that, I was mostly referring to his first statement. Although I do feel the second part is slightly warranted since the topic was started by a third party and it pulled APR in. They do have a small right (not much) to come and say that they had different intentions for the kit then DW when it came to power.


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

I can agree to a point. But you know, this place is full of opinions, and thats ok. People have the right to say APR sucks. People have the right to say ATP sucks. People have the right to say GIAC sucks.
That shouldnt be debateable, and arguing or defending is just lame.
I think everyone agrees that the APR kit has much more low and mid range, with a sacrifice to the latter part of the rpm band. Why did APR have to come in just to say it again and again. Look at the pages way back, we already talked about that, and gave APR the nod on low and midrange.
Then to say "Our kit... we want a driveability and area under the curve". So the assumption that they are saying Dubwerkes doesnt. That is why I had to post something. That is wrong for APR to make comments like that in this post. Make their own damn posts to praise its worthiness. And then to start promoting their new developments and such. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif That is just wrong.


----------



## turbo02gti (Feb 5, 2002)

I think this price argument is being done in the wrong way, not only because the price hasn't been mentioned yet but If everyone said that they would pay XXXX dollars for this kit and not a nickle more than the creators of the kit would be more inclined to keep the price lower. When you have people saying "I'll pay $5K-6K" you are killing any possibility that this kit will be released with a lower than expected price. I'm sure Dubwerks is reading everyone of these threads about price to get a better idea on what price tag to put on the final product. 
By the way I'll pay $2500 and not a nickle more!


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (new 337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *new 337* »_I can agree to a point. But you know, this place is full of opinions, and thats ok. People have the right to say APR sucks. People have the right to say ATP sucks. People have the right to say GIAC sucks.

It wouldnt'be a forum without that, it would be a list that popped up with what parts to by, thats it, and a price of 35K for them.

_Quote »_
Then to say "Our kit... we want a driveability and area under the curve". So the assumption that they are saying Dubwerkes doesnt. That is why I had to post something. That is wrong for APR to make comments like that in this post. Make their own damn posts to praise its worthiness. And then to start promoting their new developments and such. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif That is just wrong.


Agreed that was stepping in a little to far, but I still take it as the offical defense to the topic heading which was made again by a third party, not dubwerks. So technically this is not an offical thread and as a member and advertiser can come in here and say anything he wants, hence being entitled to an opinion that you pointed out in the first part.
and this is not against you, just making general points.


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (chris86vw)*








Tuners shouldnt post their opinions!


----------



## 18bora (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Both kits are aimed at two different groups. 

APR's group, including me


----------



## Tybolltt (Sep 13, 2001)

Didn't Gary H make over 300whp on pump?


----------



## DimcheMKV (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: (kilmer420)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kilmer420* »_
well cause think of it this way:
turbo 1500
mani. 1000 (cause it's that pretty)
chip 700 (that's how much the ko4 chip is for awd)
well that's 3200 bones right there not including other parts that you will need + a mark up...I say it will be pretty much the same price as APR...

You think there going to pay same amount as we pay for parts, HA!!!!! come on....Serously, even apr gets there crap for cheaper, for one they get it in quanity, for 2 they will just get it cheaper period








For example my gfs brother owns a shop, he gets everything dirt cheap with discounts....For example he fitted my gfs 02 GT with flow master 2cambers with H pipe thingy or whateve r for no more then like 150 bucks







, thats 2 mufflers, pipeing from headers back, but not useing cats.....
If its going to be competive prob ganan be around the 4,500.00 considering apr raised theres to 5k now....


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (DimcheMKV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DimcheMKV* »_If its going to be competive prob ganan be around the 4,500.00 considering apr raised theres to 5k now....


Why do you think this? It still says 4K on their website.


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tybolltt* »_Didn't Gary H make over 300whp on pump? 

Gary H also used a 225HP TT engine to start from.


----------



## Tybolltt (Sep 13, 2001)

So he used the TT motor which sin turbo makes less than 100hp considering the lower compression. 
Now I could be wrong, but I think I remember him using a gt28.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Tybolltt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tybolltt* »_So he used the TT motor which sin turbo makes less than 100hp considering the lower compression. 
Now I could be wrong, but I think I remember him using a gt28. 

his site seems to be down and none of the pics are workign in his posts, but I do remember his inlet being mighty big compared to the 225 TT turbo, a GT28 inlet is not that much larger, so I was under the impressin it was somethign larger.


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
Agreed that was stepping in a little to far, but I still take it as the offical defense to the topic heading which was made again by a third party, not dubwerks. So technically this is not an offical thread and as a member and advertiser can come in here and say anything he wants, hence being entitled to an opinion that you pointed out in the first part.
and this is not against you, just making general points.

Yeah, don't forget, I made this thread, NOT Dubwerks.
However, if you guys want my $0.02, I think Katie is being a little overly diplomatic with her responses to my topic when she said that "this kit is not meant to compete with APR," or "they are for different audiences." And I'm glad she was, because it shows 10000x more class, honesty, and truthfulness. Right now she could be saying "Look everyone, our kit puts out significantly more power than APR on beta software...etc...," but she's not. Dubwerks will let the kit do the talking for them, and it already has.
But the fact remains that this kit and the APR WILL INDEED COMPETE. They are for the IDENTICAL audience - the VW tuner who wants power output of the 1.8t WELL BEYOND what the stock turbo can give, can afford to do so, and wants kitted reliability as compared to peicing together a system themselves. This is a very small demographic to say the least. If you are telling me that every owner from here on out who purchases an APR III hasn't considered the Dubwerks III, and visa versa, then you are really stretching. The fact is that the APR III and Dubwerks III are by definition competetors in a rediculously small niche inside a niche market. Sure they are different, but in the end, every buyer will have to chose between the two. Do they want more power and more lag, or less power and less lag. But the fact is that people who want SERIOUS power go with a custom setup, and people that can't afford that much power, or don't want it, just go with chip/intake/exhaust. Ultimately, as I have said, the big-turbo kit market for the 1.8t is small (although large enough to reap significant profits), small enough that to say that the APR and Dubwerks kits are not competing is completely rediculous.
And thus, I support my thread title that the kit will compete with APR III, but I also strongly support Dubwerks' non-competitive attitude with this whole project. It is just more evidence of what great people they are, and yet another reason why I think this kit will be awesome!
Now if only I had a 1.8t....


----------



## Stewz-GTI (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_
But the fact is that people who want SERIOUS power go with a custom setup, and people that can't afford that much power, or don't want it, just go with chip/intake/exhaust. 


Yes those who are serious and can afford to play in the big HP arena go custom.
Those who do not want the hassles of tuning, or those who don't have the ability to do the tuning, go with a kit. 
However, those that want power but can't afford the mega bucks for a Stg III style kit, might go for something more cost effective (K04 type kits)
Those that don't want to heavily modify thier car but want more power will go for the chip solution.
The fact that there is another option coming to market is what we are all excited about. 
The us VS them BS is what a lot of us are sick of here on the vortex, and something I wish would stop, but it never will.


----------



## wolfsburg2 (Jun 6, 2001)

*Re: (Stewz-GTI)*

you guys are forgetting the magical world of nitrous


----------



## tazUSC (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (wolfsburg2)*

nothing beats a good shot of gas....cept maybe a good shot of gas when you already have a turbo upgrade


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (tazUSC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tazUSC* »_nothing beats a good shot of gas....cept maybe a good shot of gas when you already have a turbo upgrade

and nothign beats a good shot of gas on a turbo upgrade on a big motor..........


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

.....with a bull or horse on the hood.


----------



## VWJTI1.8T (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

speaking of nitrous my kit is going in tomorrow and hopefully dubweks III by christmas!!!


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: (VWJTI1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWJTI1.8T* »_ dubweks III by christmas!!!

CAR!!!!!!!!!!
Please correct me if im wrong, but to the best of my knowledge dub werks does not currently offer a stage 1 nor a stage 2 turbo kit. Soooooo wouldnt this be considered their stage 1 not stage 3 being this is the first product they are offering. Sorry just felt left out since i had not posted in this topic yet.
GAME ON.........(Moves hockey goal back into road)


----------



## FrankiEBoneZ (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (TommyC83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TommyC83* »_
CAR!!!!!!!!!!
Please correct me if im wrong, but to the best of my knowledge dub werks does not currently offer a stage 1 nor a stage 2 turbo kit. Soooooo wouldnt this be considered their stage 1 not stage 3 being this is the first product they are offering. Sorry just felt left out since i had not posted in this topic yet.
GAME ON.........(Moves hockey goal back into road)

LOL!!!


----------



## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (chris86vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chris86vw* »_
and nothign beats a good shot of gas on a turbo upgrade on a big motor..........

i'll let ya know


----------



## GTbuzz (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: (FrankiEBoneZ)*

hahaha. i can't get over you people.


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: (TommyC83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TommyC83* »_
CAR!!!!!!!!!!
Please correct me if im wrong, but to the best of my knowledge dub werks does not currently offer a stage 1 nor a stage 2 turbo kit. Soooooo wouldnt this be considered their stage 1 not stage 3 being this is the first product they are offering. Sorry just felt left out since i had not posted in this topic yet.
GAME ON.........(Moves hockey goal back into road)

deleted post because some people can't deal with the whole speculation vs. actual information concept.
Just so everyone knows, I am no insider or anything at Dubwerks - I just am a customer of theirs who likes their work!


_Modified by VarLordahl at 12:57 PM 9-17-2003_


----------



## DimcheMKV (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_

Also, knowing Dubwerks, it wouldn't surprise me if a stage III+ or (gasp) stage IV were released perhaps with an FMIC and a new cam or something along those lines. TOTAL SPECULATION. DO NOT SPREAD RUMORS ON THIS. 

Too late







already told the press!!!!! 
So it begins








I need more info!!!! lol....Im tired of hearing crap from big v8 guys with there high compression!!! they could go sit on it for all i care!!!! but i cant take it anymore, its ethier this kit or the helpfull knowlege of the vortex to help me peice togheter one.....Already have someone to do the install, some tuneing, mabye all if that revo advanced tuning comes out!!!, just needs parts, vortexers wisdom, and ofcourse....MONEY!!! lol


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (TommyC83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TommyC83* »_
CAR!!!!!!!!!!
Please correct me if im wrong, but to the best of my knowledge dub werks does not currently offer a stage 1 nor a stage 2 turbo kit. Soooooo wouldnt this be considered their stage 1 not stage 3 being this is the first product they are offering. Sorry just felt left out since i had not posted in this topic yet.
GAME ON.........(Moves hockey goal back into road)


HAHAHA great call on the WW quote
as for the staging, they can really call it all they want. I personally dont' like calling it staging, since you cant' compare things, make it sort of useless. Wouln't the DW kit be say a stage IV if it made more then the APr, would then if APR upgraded it be a stage V, but that doesnt' make sens you would them have to skip stage IV if you wre an APR customer, which some can't handle that much stress. call it was it is , its an upgrade fi they want to call it the Super Nifty stage 37 then so be it.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

There are definitely some characters in this thread.








We actually do not offer the parts we sell in Stages, yes we offer chips, intakes, exhausts, etc. but do not sell them as Stage 1, Stage 2 etc. so the kit will just be called "dub werks 1.8T Turbo Uprade"







Either way is fine with us. 
We are in the process of working on pricing and should have a number for everyone soon. Thanks!!


----------



## bmxvr6 (Dec 11, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

What if I want the "dub werks 1.8T Turbo Upgrade







" on my car but I have a 2.0 bottom end? What do I do now? 
Please make a special for me "2.0" sticker to put in with my kit so I can sleep good at night. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by bmxvr6 at 3:12 PM 9-17-2003_


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Sounds good Katie. Waiting patiently!


----------



## Iago (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (TurboBeetle1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TurboBeetle1* »_I couldnt read all fifteen pages, but I am taking it for granite that this is only for golfs and jettas and beetles will be left out once again?

Seeing as how even your QUESTION seems to have been ignored, I'm gonna take the bold assumption that the answer is "Yes."
I would also like to take this moment to quickly laugh at the 337 owners that are requesting a specific kit for their engines. In case you hadn't noticed, this kit is replacing all both of the parts that make the 180hp 1.8T different than the 150hp 1.8T...that being the ECU and the turbocharger. And I can say this and get away with it because I have a Turbo S.
*To DubWerks - good job on what looks like a top-notch kit in the making.*


----------



## Blue.Jester.02Gti (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (Iago)*

that didnt' make much sense... since from 2002+ *all* vw 1.8t engines in either a gti or jetta or golf(i thinkthey stopped after 2001) are stock 180 hp... only the beetles came w/ 150... anyways... i think what you meant.. no i am no expert.. but i think the difference between the 337 and the normal awp is the dp and what you said, the ecu? correct me if im wrong(which i probably am damn memory







)


----------



## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: (Blue.Jester.02Gti)*

I got a bug, i mean TT and i dont think this kit will be avail for me


----------



## VWJTI1.8T (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: (Blue.Jester.02Gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blue.Jester.02Gti* »_but i think the difference between the 337 and the normal awp is the dp and what you said, the ecu?

And don't forget the 6 speed tranny!! AWP's have 5 spd and 337's have 6 speed


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (VWJTI1.8T)*

Tranny has nothing to do with engine differences. AWP's had the AWD larger DP and different ECU and K03 sport like the AWW's. That's it. That being said, yes the kit won't be any different for 337/20th's, just requires a different file to run it. Don't think DW has covered whether or not the kit will have an option for Beetles and TT's.


----------



## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_That being said, yes the kit won't be any different for 337/20th's, just requires a different file to run it.

Correction... the 337 kit hardware will need to be painted pink.


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (KrautFed)*

And the 20th should be polka dotted. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Iago (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (KrautFed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KrautFed* »_
Correction... the 337 kit hardware will need to be painted pink.









LMAO! Please make mine pink, as well. Hot pink. After all, I *am* in a gay little Beetle...


----------



## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: (KrautFed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KrautFed* »_
Correction... the 337 kit hardware will need to be painted pink.









are they going to make matching Samco hoses?


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: (roly)*

Oh man. You guys sound like my friend who refuses to get anything that's not Nogaro Blue to match his S4.
















back on topic: Any updates on the tuning? Will there be an option to switch programming to low-mid power? I'm asking because the original dyno shows a lot of power from mid-high.

_Modified by genxguy at 10:48 AM 9-18-2003_


_Modified by genxguy at 3:20 PM 9-18-2003_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (Iago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Iago* »_
Seeing as how even your QUESTION seems to have been ignored, I'm gonna take the bold assumption that the answer is "Yes."


I received an IM as well and the question was answered in IM. I apologize for not answering it here in the forum as well. I have received alot of IMs and emails. At this time the kit is being fitted for Golfs and Jettas, we are not excluding the Beetles and TTs as of yet, but they have not been included at this time. We may be looking at hardware changes with these vehicles. 
Thanks and we should have some more dyno charts next week.


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Katie,
Is there any way you can please, please, please hint a ballpark figure on the price? You could even put a disclaimer on the quote. Thanks once again! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MRP2001GTi (Oct 6, 2000)

*Re: (genxguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *genxguy* »_I'd like my hos to be clean only, don't care about color, thank you.

Shouldnt that be "hose"?


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: (MRP2001GTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MRP2001GTi* »_
Shouldnt that be "hose"?









LOL
Thanks. Deleted it.


----------



## Iago (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
At this time the kit is being fitted for Golfs and Jettas, we are not excluding the Beetles and TTs as of yet, but they have not been included at this time. We may be looking at hardware changes with these vehicles.

At the back of the line as usual.
Not dogging on you, Katie, or DW. Just venting general frustration with the VW tuning pecking order in general. We're usually waiting well behind the cutting edge for applications to make it to us...


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (Iago)*

Iago--I appreciate your understanding and we do understand how some of you hardcore Beetle guys feel left out quite often, we have a Beetle customer here that always wants to do the latest and greatest, races his car all the time and has the same frustrations but understands as well. He is an amazing customer and further down the road, we may look into some options, we just can't say for sure what the future will hold. Thanks again and we do very much appreciate your interest in the kit.

Ok....now for some news for the rest of you anticipating some more kit information. Rich is flying out to California (GIAC) next week to fit the car with an Evo FMIC. The rest of the tuning will be finished up and he will be driving the car back here to Illinois. When the car arrives back, we will be finishing up some of the final touches, we will have pricing ready for release and we will have final dyno numbers as well. 
Today, we received a call from J.Moss a fellow GIAC dealer who was interested in seeing the car and possibly taking it for a spin. He is located near GIAC, we "threw him the keys" and said have fun.







I am sure he will be posting later on tonight of what his impressions were, I know he was going to possibly give another Vortexer a ride as well.







No, J.Moss is not going to be doing a GTG for rides...haha. 
Thanks again everyone, if some of your questions being posted up in this thread have not been answered, please feel free to shoot me an email at [email protected] and I will answer any questions you have. 
I will keep everyone up to date on the new information, drive those VWs safely!


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_, we "threw him the keys" and said have fun.









oh I'm so jealous


----------



## VwDrvFnd (Sep 13, 2000)

Cant APR do turbo upgrades for bettles?
Call Mike Staley @ BarTuning or Apr Houston. I am sure he would know for sure !


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (VwDrvFnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VwDrvFnd* »_Cant APR do turbo upgrades for bettles?
Call Mike Staley @ BarTuning or Apr Houston. I am sure he would know for sure !

Threadjacker!








Nobody cares about APR anymore.


----------



## VWJTI1.8T (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Nobody cares about APR anymore.









*AT LEAST NOBODY IN THIS THREAD!!*


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: (VwDrvFnd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VwDrvFnd* »_Cant APR do turbo upgrades for bettles?
Call Mike Staley @ BarTuning or Apr Houston. I am sure he would know for sure !

Ahhhh nevermind


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

Hi All, 
Have had a chance to spend some time in the new Dubwerks kit.
Here is my short review.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1029936 

Jeff


----------



## slugII (Apr 5, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (J. Moss)*

One more vote for beetle options here!
Don't leave us out!

Oh and isn't anyone concerned about a welded tubular manifold cracking?????
I had a rabbit with a tubular header and cracking is a persistant issue with any tubular welded header for those set ups.
Would this be an issue here as well over several thousand miles of driving?

_Modified by slugII at 12:54 PM 9-19-2003_


_Modified by slugII at 12:54 PM 9-19-2003_


----------



## Jman5000 (Nov 8, 1999)

*Re: (turbo02gti)*


_Quote »_I think this price argument is being done in the wrong way, not only because the price hasn't been mentioned yet but If everyone said that they would pay XXXX dollars for this kit and not a nickle more than the creators of the kit would be more inclined to keep the price lower. When you have people saying "I'll pay $5K-6K" you are killing any possibility that this kit will be released with a lower than expected price. I'm sure Dubwerks is reading everyone of these threads about price to get a better idea on what price tag to put on the final product. 
By the way I'll pay $2500 and not a nickle more!









The cost of parts, development, and profit targets are NOT going to change just because a group of interested parties in an internet forum all express interest in a given price.
The costs/profits are what they are. If the cost is lower than expected, great. If it's not, it's certainly not because of what was said here.


----------



## eunos94 (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

This customer is constantly speaking to his freind who constantly is talking to me about getting my butt up to see you guys.
(err that made sense in my head I swear it.)
The APH New Beetle market has been all but abandoned. We are power hungry, our cars are mostly paid off, if not completly paid off, and we have money.
I wanted the APR stage 3 they gave me nothing but grief. Then bar tuning came out with their kit but said I had to drive down to texas to have it installed and they refused to send out the kit.
I want...no NEED 300WHP. Throw the bigger injectors in the kit, write some new code and charge us more but please do not foresake us as the rest of the VW community has.
Thankyou
Tom


----------



## turbo02gti (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: (Jman5000)*

Obviously the parts do cost what they cost but If you think for a second that they aren't considering the numbers being thrown around here as a measuring stick than you are kidding yourself. I'd be willing to bet a penny that most of their business for this product will most likely be coming from the users on Vortex more than anywhere else. So that being said if they don't consider what price the main audience is willing to pay then there won't be many sales of anything.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (turbo02gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbo02gti* »_Obviously the parts do cost what they cost but If you think for a second that they aren't considering the numbers being thrown around here as a measuring stick than you are kidding yourself. I'd be willing to bet a penny that most of their business for this product will most likely be coming from the users on Vortex more than anywhere else. So that being said if they don't consider what price the main audience is willing to pay then there won't be many sales of anything.

The point is the prices people are saying is less then the sum of the parts included in the kit. And while yes vortex is a strong voice, the people posting are only a tiny fraction of the entire tuning industry.


----------



## rudyr (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (eunos94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eunos94* »_ I wanted the APR stage 3 they gave me nothing but grief. Then bar tuning came out with their kit but said I had to drive down to texas to have it installed and they refused to send out the kit.

Ohio to Texas is a day drive, and I bet they'd even try to get the install done in 1 day, or possibly on a Saturday even to minimize your downtime. I live in Texas and I'd take a day off and drive 5 hours round trip just have Mike do the important installs (LSD, Stg.3, etc.)
As far as pricing, I think the bills from Innovative and GIAC will determine the cost more that people's postings on here. Let's face it, the reaction will be predictable; Anything under $4k and this kit will be seen as vindication that APR truely been ripping people off with their overpriced kit for the past 2 years. Anything over $4k, deep down people will be ticked off, but they'll justify that it's 'OK' for it to be priced that way because it's not from APR and it makes more peak HP. At the end of the day, whether it's $3,500, $4,500 or $5,500 - I don't think it's going to greatly change the number of people who buy the product. If you are someone who has $3,500 laying around to spend on a turbo kit, you probably have $4,500 as well. Most people I've met who drop that kind of money on what truely is a nice-to-have luxury item aren't putting quarters in a piggy bank to save up for it and then pick up the phone to buy once they hit that magic number. They already said that they're not going to break up the kit in parts, so even the arguement that you can buy it slowly over time and upgrade doesn't even come into play here.
The sweet spot in the budget market is right around $2k to $2.5k, and I suspect that some people who have posted on this thread even are working on putting together a a hybrid package in that range.


_Modified by rudyr at 4:39 PM 9-19-2003_


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (rudyr)*

Very good points Rudy, from traveling for good work, to the pricing.


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

Who needs stocks and bonds when I can invest in my happiness through my car. "LIVE IN THE NOW!"
Bump for further info and for possible financing!








Oh and Katie? While I agree that I'd drive to hell and back for quality stuff, I really hope you guys plan to hook up with some other distributors (throughout the U.S. and Canada) that can hook up the kit in a wide range of locales, or will ship it out to people who are/think they are competent enough to DIY.
What's the DW thought on that?


----------



## 20gti1.8turbo02 (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (16vracer)*

what are the # for the 93 oct fuel


----------



## turbo02gti (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: (20gti1.8turbo02)*

May somebody should deliver them a nice can of Sunoco Ultra 94 for their next round of dyno testing...


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (turbo02gti)*

Dude, someone needs to get ME a tank of 94 octane!!! [email protected] Arizona 91 P!ss Water!!!








The worst of it is I pay $2.09 a gallon for 91, in a podunk town.







Drives me nuts. with the money I spunk on octane booster, I could buy 93 every time I fill up......
Bump for more info!!


----------



## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (Deadking)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Deadking* »_Dude, someone needs to get ME a tank of 94 octane!!! [email protected] Arizona 91 P!ss Water!!!








The worst of it is I pay $2.09 a gallon for 91, in a podunk town.







Drives me nuts. with the money I spunk on octane booster, I could buy 93 every time I fill up......
Bump for more info!!

I just saw $2.22 for 91 oct at arco (pisswater gastation)....paid $2.29 the other day for 91 oct at cheveron .....i think california has the worst prices nation wide.
ive been spending an average of $32 a tank lately.... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## FYGTBUG (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Iago--I appreciate your understanding and we do understand how some of you hardcore Beetle guys feel left out quite often, we have a Beetle customer here that always wants to do the latest and greatest, races his car all the time and has the same frustrations but understands as well. He is an amazing customer and further down the road, we may look into some options, we just can't say for sure what the future will hold. Thanks again and we do very much appreciate your interest in the kit.









LOL yeah Jimmy is definately hardcore, right to the bone.......But not hat hardcore see my sig for details LOL.....
On another note, I really dont see any issues with doing this kit into a Beetle, it will just need a chip done by Garret based on Beetle programming, and fro what I understand since the Sport edition that programming has come much closer to Golf/Jetta programming anyway, so I am sure a man of Garrett talents could sure transform it. the rest is just the same basically......


----------



## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: (FYGTBUG)*

I know my programming has to be close to AWD or AWW programming!! Please hook up the TT owners! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Rave2Nite (Sep 29, 2001)

*Re: (RaraK69)*

bump


----------



## Tricky1.8t (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

A few questions I can think of...
When can I get a ride in this beast?
What are the #'s on 93 octane...dare I say 100 octane?
What will the entry price be on this kit?
Will this void my warranty...hahahahaha that is a joke.
Katie...you said that there are so many 20th anniversaries crusin' around Libertyville, I guess my car will stand out just a bit with your kit!


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (Beaker In RPG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beaker In RPG* »_
I just saw $2.22 for 91 oct at arco (pisswater gastation)....paid $2.29 the other day for 91 oct at cheveron .....i think california has the worst prices nation wide.
ive been spending an average of $32 a tank lately.... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

actually hawaii has the highest gas prices cause of our gas taxes... sad part is the roads look like poo


----------



## DimcheMKV (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: (2KGTI-t)*

Here in IL 93 octan is around 2.06 per gallon...I miss the days when it was like 1.40 for 93







Seesh thoose where the days, 5 bucks for gas and your set for the week lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## g pepper (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: (2KGTI-t)*

[
actually hawaii has the highest gas prices cause of our gas taxes... sad part is the roads look like poo[/QUOTE]
In Texas we probably have the cheapest gas. I spent $65.00 filling up my tank last week.








VP 103 Octane is more addictive than crack


----------



## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (eunos94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eunos94* »_ I wanted the APR stage 3 they gave me nothing but grief. Then bar tuning came out with their kit but said I had to drive down to texas to have it installed and they refused to send out the kit.


The kit can be shipped out now. He didn't have the install instructions written up for the APH NB at the time since it differs from the APR install a bit. Now the APH beetle is NO problem. My stage 5 should be in the car by the 7th and tuned by Halloween.


----------



## Binary Star (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: (DimcheMKV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DimcheMKV* »_Here in IL 93 octan is around 2.06 per gallon...I miss the days when it was like 1.40 for 93







Seesh thoose where the days, 5 bucks for gas and your set for the week lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

oh man u gotta come up to northside to fill up your gas tank... i just filler her up today with 93oct and it was only 1.79 / gal.... that 2.06 per gal, was last week but not right now.. i am happy


----------



## eunos94 (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

If you knew this was going to be shippable then why did you tell me and others that the only place this would ever be able to be installed is in Texas? I have a bad back and can not do more then 8 hours at a stretch in a vehicle and since I lowered my bug no more then 5 hours. I told you I would have too take over a week off to do this and asked if you could accomadate me. You told me to ship my car and that the only place that can install it period would be bar tuning.
I have the money, I have the time, I have the need but you lost a customer. I would rather wait for Dubwerks at this point, even if I have to spend triple what you guys would do.


----------



## eunos94 (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

If you knew this was going to be shippable then why did you tell me and others that the only place this would ever be able to be installed is in Texas? I have a bad back and can not do more then 8 hours at a stretch in a vehicle and since I lowered my bug no more then 5 hours. I told you I would have too take over a week off to do this and asked if you could accomadate me. You told me to ship my car and that the only place that can install it period would be bar tuning.
I have the money, I have the time, I have the need but you lost a customer. I would rather wait for Dubwerks at this point, even if I have to spend triple what you guys would do.

_Quote, originally posted by *Bug_Power* »_
The kit can be shipped out now. He didn't have the install instructions written up for the APH NB at the time since it differs from the APR install a bit. Now the APH beetle is NO problem. My stage 5 should be in the car by the 7th and tuned by Halloween.


----------



## Newspimp (Jul 28, 2001)

*Re: (eunos94)*

So let me get this straight.
You asked them to ship you a kit, which hadn't been thouroughly documented for the car it was going on, with items different from the standard system, which hadn't been installed by ANYONE outside of BAR and are angry that they wouldn't let you go at the install blind of the changes that needed to be made for your platform? 
Let's say they had shipped you the parts; if you had a problem installing it, getting someone to install or or whatever, you'd have bitched about it not working. That is and of itself is good reason to offer the system as install locally ONLY. Otherwise, when people have problems (and they would) they'd complain about the lack of documentation and differences in install from the standard APR Stg III and who'd look bad?
It is good business practice to not offer to DIYers what hasn't been made idiot proof. They didn't have the documentation, so what, were you going to go at it blind?


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (eunos94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eunos94* »_
If you knew this was going to be shippable then why did you tell me and others that the only place this would ever be able to be installed is in Texas? I have a bad back and can not do more then 8 hours at a stretch in a vehicle and since I lowered my bug no more then 5 hours. I told you I would have too take over a week off to do this and asked if you could accomadate me. You told me to ship my car and that the only place that can install it period would be bar tuning.
I have the money, I have the time, I have the need but you lost a customer. I would rather wait for Dubwerks at this point, even if I have to spend triple what you guys would do.


BAR Tuning is only doing the APH STG3 kit in house. They are NOT shipping them out.








Contact Mike if you have any questions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
BAR Tuning is only doing the APH STG3 kit in house. They are NOT shipping them out.








Contact Mike if you have any questions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *Bug Power* »_
The kit can be shipped out now. He didn't have the install instructions written up for the APH NB at the time since it differs from the APR install a bit. Now the APH beetle is NO problem. 

So which one is it? Get it straight, Bug worked for Bar over the summer.


----------



## eunos94 (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: (BatiGol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BatiGol* »_
So which one is it? Get it straight, Bug worked for Bar over the summer.

Exactly.
This type of stuff is why people are sick of APR. 
A freind of mine with a 2003 New Beetle was told to drive down to APR and that they have a chip. She drove 6hours and was told oooops my bad, we are not making a chip yet. We thought it would be the same as the 2002.


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (eunos94)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eunos94* »_Exactly.
This type of stuff is why people are sick of APR.









BARTuning is NOT APR. Just a distributor who made a one off of their kit to help you the Beetle owners. Now you are going to be whiny about it because they changed their mind on where it could be installed which actually BENEFITS you. My gosh, it always amazes me how adults can be such babies. As for your friend, she definitely got dumed on. Now go somewhere else with your off topic babble. 
To keep it on topic..
Katie, how much? (Not that you have had anyone ask yet).


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (eunos94)*

"Stay on target..."
Guys lets not turn this into another APR suc%s forum. We got plenny o' dos. Lets focus on what this is really about, Dubwerks and the potential for an awesome kit for our platforms.








Big ol' *BUMP* . Waiting patiently.








Edit: Woo Hoo! Page 18! My lucky number!!!










_Modified by Deadking at 7:09 PM 9-23-2003_


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (eunos94)*


_Quote »_So which one is it? Get it straight, Bug worked for Bar over the summer.

yes, and my car was the APH prototype that had the STG3 kit installed at BAR Tuning. As stated, talk to Mike if you have any questions.









_Quote »_A freind of mine with a 2003 New Beetle was told to drive down to APR and that they have a chip. She drove 6hours and was told oooops my bad, we are not making a chip yet. We thought it would be the same as the 2002.

hestersu drove to Dallas -- not Auburn or Houston. 
I'm sorry to hear about her troubles, but the only one to blame is that particular distributor for not knowing. It was probably one of the first requests that place has had for a 2003 New Beetle chip.


----------



## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (gt2437)*

Originally the kit was not to be shipped. At the time he didn't want others installing the kit incorrectly and it coming back as a problem with our kit. I developed the software on my car, did all the prototyping and such. Mike's car was the first actual production unit installed. Mike and I had talked about shipping it out and I had thought that he would ship it. We had talked about it. I'm just a friend of the shop owners and worked up there for the summer. It was my mistake. Untill he gets some more kits under his belt so that install instructions can be finalized and everything. He's keeping it in house. All other NB kits I believe still can be shipped, it's just the APH that is in house I believe. When in doubt....ask Mike Staley, he's the owner and makes all the decisions.


----------



## Iago (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_hestersu drove to Dallas -- not Auburn or Houston. 
I'm sorry to hear about her troubles, but the only one to blame is that particular distributor for not knowing. It was probably one of the first requests that place has had for a 2003 New Beetle chip. 

Surely not Kenny...he would have known.








What other APR dealers are in D/FW?


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bug_Power* »_Originally the kit was not to be shipped. At the time he didn't want others installing the kit incorrectly and it coming back as a problem with our kit. I developed the software on my car, did all the prototyping and such. Mike's car was the first actual production unit installed. Mike and I had talked about shipping it out and I had thought that he would ship it. We had talked about it. I'm just a friend of the shop owners and worked up there for the summer. It was my mistake. Untill he gets some more kits under his belt so that install instructions can be finalized and everything. He's keeping it in house. All other NB kits I believe still can be shipped, it's just the APH that is in house I believe. When in doubt....ask Mike Staley, he's the owner and makes all the decisions.

WHO CARES!!!!!!!! start your own thread or take this to IM either way get the hell out of the thread where another company is trying to promote their product.


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (TommyC83)*

Seriously guys do you work for AP Freaking H or what? Take that crap elsewhere. WTF?















Back on track. Katie, big ups to Dubwerks for alla the info. Hope to hear more updates soon!!!!! (hint hint)


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (Deadking)*


_Quote »_WHO CARES!!!!!!!! start your own thread or take this to IM either way get the hell out of the thread where another company is trying to promote their product.

he was responding to someone else about after market New Beetle kits whom mentioned that kit









_Quote, originally posted by *Deadking* »_Seriously guys do you work for AP Freaking H or what? Take that crap elsewhere. WTF?















Back on track. Katie, big ups to Dubwerks for alla the info. Hope to hear more updates soon!!!!! (hint hint)

No. don't get mad. This is what happens to New Beetle owners.







Alright here's back on track -- what these post were really all about. 
If Dubwerks and GIAC were to come out with a kit for all 1.8t New Beetle's, I would be very impressed. 
The hardware is pretty much the same on all 150-180hp transverse 1.8t's in the MKIV's. The problem is the *software*. Creating a new program for every ECU model under the sun is going to take time. 
I'm sure the AWD, AWW, and AWP ECU's for 5/6 speeds will be out with GIAC software for this kit as there will definitely be some sales to be made there. Perhaps even the AWD, AWW, AWP automatic ECU's will have GIAC files for this kit. 
But to have this for the APH, AWV, and Turbo S AWP ECU's -- I don't know if the development time would be justified. The sales for the New Beetle will not reach the numbers of the GTI/Jetta kits. 
IS that better?


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (gt2437)*

Much better thanks.








A thought: What about forgoing th GIAC software for you beetle guys and just running REVO or a similar product that will allow you to customize the settings based on your ecu and turbo type? Is that even possible? If Dubwerks ships this kit, or even if they don't you can still run whatever software you want in the end. A TEC 3 set up is your best bet, but who has the time money and patience to install that sucker.
Katie? Beetle people gonna get code consideration by GIAC for your kit? I know you said Dubwerks was gonna look into the possibility, what about your software developer? Does he think it can be done?


----------



## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (Deadking)*

And coming from a guy who's done EVERY mod besides the powergasket and N75 "race" valve I'll tell you there isn't much of a market for the APH guys. I was just tired of being left out and decided to help my fellow APH brethren out. JUST FYI. APH is an engine code, AP*R* is a company. 
Now to get a bit more back on track. You APH guys who feel left out. I'm going to try and get my T3/T4 with programming on the car to see how well our bug responds to the larger turbo then the APR kits. I'd suggest you do timing belt and water pump for any of you guys over 50k going stage 3. I've got 73k and will be doing mine when I upgrade. As far as any other KKK turbo avenue. I've bolted the sport and K04 onto the car, and you can ask Mike Mummert, it's a joke compared to Garrett turbos. Mike just think of your car with 60 more HP to the wheels. THEN think about that consistanly since I'm getting my A/W intercooler this week


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*



Bug_Power said:


> And coming from a guy who's done EVERY mod besides the powergasket and N75 "race" valve I'll tell you there isn't much of a market for the APH guys. QUOTE]
> Wow thats pretty sweet!!!! So what internals are you using im looking for some ideas to use on my new car. Although with all the engine work i plan on doing im not sure if my trans can hold it any tips on that would be sweet. Did the cams really make a difference in addition to the AEB head swap. What engine managment are you using SDS,TEC,Autronic or DTS I mean with EVERY possible mod there is no way id be able to maintain my stock ecu correct? Would revo be able to help me out??????? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (TommyC83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TommyC83* »_


Bug_Power said:


> And coming from a guy who's done EVERY mod besides the powergasket and N75 "race" valve I'll tell you there isn't much of a market for the APH guys. QUOTE]
> Wow thats pretty sweet!!!! So what internals are you using im looking for some ideas to use on my new car. Although with all the engine work i plan on doing im not sure if my trans can hold it any tips on that would be sweet. Did the cams really make a difference in addition to the AEB head swap. What engine managment are you using SDS,TEC,Autronic or DTS I mean with EVERY possible mod there is no way id be able to maintain my stock ecu correct? Would revo be able to help me out??????? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif






Bug_Power said:


> Well let's see if you'd like to be a ***** about it let me answer your questions. I meant to say bolt ons, but I'll enlighten you with the rest.
> Internals don't need to be touched until you go over 400whp. I plan on going Pauter rods and JE pistons when I do however. EIP has a forged crank as well that I'll be looking into if I find that my crank, like various other 1.8t models is cast. The AEB head will aslo be going on once I get over 400whp. Right now I'm fabbing up an larger plenum for my AEB intake manifold. The stock head will flow well enough for now. The cams didn't make that much of a difference on the stock turbo. I was really unimpressed with the Shricks. I have done an engine managment swap as well as the APH new beetles that have the stage 3. We are no longer running APH new beetle engine managment. It's still Motronic however. Yes you can retain your stock ECU if you go stand alone, actually it's one of the easier ways to do it. You basically remove the ECU's control over the engine managment, however let it control the cluster, and other auxillary functions. Now that your done with a post that provides no useful information...back to the regularly scheduled program.....if you have any other questions feel free to ask. Like maybe how to tune stand alone with a 5-0v TPS vs 0-5v tps.


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

I don't know about all that, but when I'm done tweaking my ATP Gen2 setup, I should be making 300whp on 91 octane.


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_I don't know about all that, but when I'm done tweaking my ATP Gen2 setup, I should be making 300whp on 91 octane.

Wolks if you paid one bit of attention to anything other then the yourself you would have the commen sense to realize that the turbo that ATP uses in that kit is almost identical to the turbo used in your beloved kit so 300wheel hp would be possible. No one said 91 octane, and I personaly only said try without using race gas, but you need to use it too, so why can't I, I'm sorry APR needed to do it too, you didnt' do anything.


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

Don't worry Chris I wasn't knocking your efforts, It's just an inside joke toward Rodney.








You know as well as I do, that 300whp on pump gas with a Gt25 is a tall order.


_Modified by Wolk's Wagon at 9:15 AM 9-24-2003_


----------



## chris86vw (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_Don't worry Chris I wasn't knocking your efforts, It's just an inside joke toward Rodney.








You know as well as I do, that 300whp on pump gas with a Gt25 is a tall order.

_Modified by Wolk's Wagon at 9:15 AM 9-24-2003_

yes your right, but neither of us have a GT25, yours has been said by APr even to be larger then a GT25, and the ATP kit comes with a GT28.


----------



## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

When is this damn thing gonna be ready? Come on people!! Work 24/7 non stop, everday and get it done already. Some of us need ridiculous amounts of power!!!


----------



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (chris86vw)*

Back when I purchased my turbo, it was classified as a GT25, Garret recently renamed them to GT28........But anyway let's get back to mindless babble this thd has turned into.


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolk's Wagon* »_Back when I purchased my turbo, it was classified as a GT25, Garret recently renamed them to GT28........But anyway let's get back to mindless babble this thd has turned into.

Do you have a link to that? I would like to see the sizing/naming on the GT series.
Jeff


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (J. Moss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J. Moss* »_
Do you have a link to that? I would like to see the sizing/naming on the GT series.
Jeff

how's this? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.atpturbo.com/root/t...p.htm


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
how's this? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.atpturbo.com/root/t...p.htm

I have never installed the APR S3 kit. They use a 60 mm inducer?? I had heard differently. But, do not know for sure. 
Jeff


----------



## g pepper (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: (J. Moss)*

bump. Let's hear a Friday update. Katie?


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (g pepper)*

They are in Cali doing the FMIC install.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

Hence the shop being closed? Hope to hear some updates soon.
Two things I have been wondering. First, I wonder if the GIAC programming will like/allow the use of a BOV? Everything I have seen from the aftermarket tuners programming on our stocks ECUs doesn't like a BOV (yes it will work, but you'll see power losses in the long run) Leads me to believe that all the tuners, no matter who, bases their map off the stock maps and not completely rewrites them.
Second, using this kit and a Greddy FMIC, you won't need the N75 hole not included on the tubing because this kit has a fitting in the compressor side that hooks to the external wastegate with the N75 between?


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

It runs the stock set up, IE relieves boost BACK INTO the intake tract. Why would you want to use a BOV? Its loud enough, trust me, i drove the car hehe







I would aggree that they start with stock maps, it makes sense
The second question, I dont know.


----------



## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_Two things I have been wondering. First, I wonder if the GIAC programming will like/allow the use of a BOV? Everything I have seen from the aftermarket tuners programming on our stocks ECUs doesn't like a BOV (yes it will work, but you'll see power losses in the long run) Leads me to believe that all the tuners, no matter who, bases their map off the stock maps and not completely rewrites them.


You need to do a bit more research. Bov's problems are related to HOW your engine managment works, not the software maps.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bug_Power* »_
You need to do a bit more research. Bov's problems are related to HOW your engine managment works, not the software maps.

Yes, I need to get the big blue Robert Bosch book and study. Sorry for the ignorant question. Can I still be your friend?
















_Quote, originally posted by *Batigol* »_It runs the stock set up, IE relieves boost BACK INTO the intake tract. Why would you want to use a BOV? Its loud enough, trust me, i drove the car hehe.

I really hope there is LOTS of turbo noise, enough to make the guy in the next lane look over like WTF?!?










_Modified by Super1.8T at 5:43 PM 9-26-2003_


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_
I really hope there is LOTS of turbo noise, enough to make the guy in the next lane look over like WTF?!?










_Modified by Super1.8T at 5:43 PM 9-26-2003_






















Its gonna be a good time trust me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (TommyC83)*

BTW, besides the turbo muffler on some of our cars, why are our turbos relatively quiet? Exhaust too restrictive? Not enough CFM being pushed through? I guess I am referring to the high pitched tubine noise I can't get enough of. I drool when I hear TT Supras or GN's with big turbos. I hope it's something like that.


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

It's because you can fit the entire k03 inside of just a t88's inlet! By the way....roflmao to comparing this to a Supra or GN spool up!


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

I know I know, this turbo is small compared to that, but one can dream, right?







Ever hear the tune of twin HKS 3037S's spool up? Oh my Lord . . . 
I should have said slightly similar to, or sorta like, or at least better than stock










_Modified by Super1.8T at 9:21 PM 9-26-2003_


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

Oh yeah. They sound good. I prefer the sound of a dual bb t88 though.


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

dual BB t88's . . . what in the world can spool those up, a BB Chevy?!?


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super1.8T* »_dual BB t88's . . . what in the world can spool those up, a BB Chevy?!?









A good friend of mines car can. Go to http://www.stage6motorsports.com and check out the Toyota section under "project vehicles". Motor is still on a stock block. Chris Green has seen the backside a few times.







The BB is for ball-bearing in case your confused also.


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_
The BB is for ball-bearing in case your confused also. 

I think he was referring to Big Block Chevy (396, 454, 502, etc.)


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (gt2437)*

Big Block Chevy







Ball bearing turbos







I look like a real idiot don't I! Really I am not that moronic.
Anyway back on topic, I hope Katie and Rich release something soon. This waiting is hell.


----------



## roly (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_
A good friend of mines car can. Go to http://www.stage6motorsports.com and check out the Toyota section under "project vehicles". Motor is still on a stock block. Chris Green has seen the backside a few times.









how much whp does the Supra have?


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (roly)*

Right around 750 with a 50 shot to get some boost off the line. It's still running stock ecu and stock bottom end. It's also a push-button automatic built by Level 10.


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

Today's the day that Rich and Katie reopen Dubwerks and presumeably have the project car back. LET'S GET SOME UPDATES!


----------



## tattoo24v (Nov 9, 2001)

*Re: (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_Today's the day that Rich and Katie reopen Dubwerks and presumeably have the project car back. LET'S GET SOME UPDATES!

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Blue.Jester.02Gti (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_Today's the day that Rich and Katie reopen Dubwerks and presumeably have the project car back. LET'S GET SOME UPDATES!

"Woo Hoo!"
-H. Simpson


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (Blue.Jester.02Gti)*

Bump for Updates!!!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (Deadking)*

Hey Guys/Gals!
Well, the GTI is back home safe and sound.








The over 2,000 mile drive from California to Illinois was a success.







The car ran beautiful all the way back, a big thanks to GIAC! I will give you guys some more of an update as soon as I get everything situated over here. Thanks again everyone!!


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Can you give a ball park of when this kit is going to be available? Anything, winter, spring summer, you can be vague but can we get an idea?


----------



## NCR1.8T (Apr 29, 2002)

*Re: (CruiseVW)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Getting excited.


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

hmmm
race gas numbers.......... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: (BatiGol)*

I've heard a few good things so far about the drive back, lookin' to see some more info as it shows up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: (VW4life)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (VarLordahl)*

is there a waiting list yet???


----------



## Stewz-GTI (Feb 16, 1999)

I hope Katie makes a new post when the an announcement is made, we are onto 19 pages or so now!


----------



## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: (Stewz-GTI)*

Werd. And with over 27,000 views, this post is getting up there!
Bumpage and Boost!!


----------



## Binary Star (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: (Super1.8T)*

i got to look at the kit yesterday while i was at dubwerks... and man i have to get on the waiting list as soon it comes out... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.. i am sure rich already filled her up with 93oct and damn i can't wait to take a ride in that beast


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: (JettaDude101)*

Bumpadump.
...I love when people who are not in the know here my DV pop off and ask me whats wrong with my car......








Waiting patiently.


----------



## BoostMiser (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: (Deadking)*

And how was the gas mileage on that 2,000 mile trip?


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: (BoostMiser)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoostMiser* »_And how was the gas mileage on that 2,000 mile trip?









Does it really matter









Well i guess ill make a post with something useful for once
Out and about driving the car with rich this wonderful evening and ill sum up the entire time in one phrase!!!!
WHEEL SPIN MUCH!!!!!!!!!








Hopefully katie will be able to keep up in that little blue thing soon enough


----------



## Y26 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (TommyC83)*

Get back to 1st page~ ^^^


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## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (TommyC83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TommyC83* »_
Does it really matter








Well i guess ill make a post with something useful for once
Out and about driving the car with rich this wonderful evening and ill sum up the entire time in one phrase!!!!
WHEEL SPIN MUCH!!!!!!!!!








Hopefully katie will be able to keep up in that little blue thing soon enough









Its dope huh?


----------



## 1.8t man (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: (BatiGol)*

good stuff








cough cough make it 4k and not a penny more cough cough cough


----------



## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (1.8t man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8t man* »_good stuff








cough cough make it 4k and not a penny more cough cough cough 

cough cough.... give me one for free








hey, we can all dream, cant we?


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: (BatiGol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BatiGol* »_
Its dope huh?

LOL







Yeah its dope untill i get back in my car and realize how much of a turd mine is. Somebody needs to buy my caddy so i can get my kit on


----------



## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

[cough]Can'twaittogetaride...[/cough]


----------



## Kaj17 (Nov 11, 2002)

*Re: (TommyC83)*

Tommy, can you provide us with a more informative review of your driving experience in the car?...


----------



## technofly7 (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: (TommyC83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TommyC83* »_
Out and about driving the car with rich this wonderful evening and ill sum up the entire time in one phrase!!!!
WHEEL SPIN MUCH!!!!!!!!!










what type of tires are on the car? i havent read previous pages so im not sure if this was covered yet.


----------



## ABTMuDa (Mar 16, 2001)

*Re: (technofly7)*

Price????????


----------



## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

If I'm not mistaken I think he has ES100s on 18" RHs...maybe.


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (TRBNIUM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TRBNIUM* »_If I'm not mistaken I think he has ES100s on 18" RHs...maybe.

thats right


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## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: (technofly7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kaj17* »_Tommy, can you provide us with a more informative review of your driving experience in the car?...

Not a problem the overall driving experiance was very impressive. The car was very driveable around town just daily driving under 3500 rpm was much smoother than stock a lot more enjoyable in my eyes no jerky on/off k03 feel. Around town driving was fun and all but the spot that puts the smile on your face is higher in the revs the power comes on smooth, but is powerful enough to push you back in the seat hard(you know the whole if you can reach the $20 on the dash then you can have it deal? Well youll never loose that $20 ) first gear has its fair share of wheel spin but we were also on 18's make a quick shift to 2nd and you remain pinned to the seat. Faster than you can imagine the clutch is on its way back down to make the shift to 3rd let the clutch out hold on and smile because this is were it starts to get scary. I dont even really know how to explain how it feels, but if it means anything i was very depressed when i had to drive my chipped 1.8t home just to realize how much of a turd mine really is.
I myself am very excited about this turbo kit and will be getting one on my car as soon as possible. With some good tires and a nice launch i think youd be able to accidentally run 12's with this kit, but thats all in the driver i guess. 
Mad props to rich and katie for making this all happen









And i beleave the tires are 225/40or45/18 yoko es100's


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (TommyC83)*

Nice review. Just made me more impatient.


----------



## 337drew (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

How about some engine bay screen-shots? Ones that include the full intake assembly.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Msjudgd1 (Mar 20, 2001)

*Re: (337drew)*





























http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Msjudgd1 (Mar 20, 2001)

*Re: (337drew)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 337drew (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I stumbled on some EVO and STI dyno graphs. I thought you guys might want to compare them.








^^ EVO








^^ STI








^^ Dubwerks
Judging by how happy STI/EVO owners are with their cars which have similar "turbo lag," I think Dubwerks is right on the mark. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (337drew)*

WOW! I never would have thought the STI had that much drivetrain loss! So they're trapping 104-105 bone stock with only that much power to the ground?


----------



## FreshieMedia (Jul 4, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_WOW! I never would have thought the STI had that much drivetrain loss! So they're trapping 104-105 bone stock with only that much power to the ground?

sounds about right seeing as there are stock k03's on here trapping 100-101 with about 210-215-ish wheel.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (FreshieMedia)*

Yeah, I suppose. I thought the STI's were BOATS though? And they don't make that much torque do they?


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Yeah, I suppose. I thought the STI's were BOATS though? And they don't make that much torque do they?

3263 lbs w/ 300hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque. not too shabby http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TreyS (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Yeah, I suppose. I thought the STI's were *BOATS *though? And they don't make that much torque do they?

So are the MKIV chassis.


----------



## 1.8t man (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: (TreyS)*

its too good to be true...








i cnat wait to peace my boys evo on the highway


----------



## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: (1.8t man)*

at least the new evo/stis can cut a sub 5sec 0-60 time


----------



## vtecwrecker (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: (germanrox)*

bump for some more info.. i need to know how much to save.. and what body parts i need to sell.. and if your taking deposits to hold kits untill their release date..


----------



## Binary Star (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: (vtecwrecker)*

hey rich how about that ride


----------



## BoostMiser (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: (JettaDude101)*

Only problem is getting the power to the ground....which the STi and Evo don't have issues with







. We need a kit like this for the R32.
I've been reading up on the Evo forum and they have some nice 60' times. Stock they run around [email protected] with a sub 2 sec 60' time. Not too far off from what a lot of us are running in trap speed. 
One question....can the stock clutch hold this type of power?


_Modified by BoostMiser at 1:49 PM 10-4-2003_


----------



## Turbobug (Jun 8, 2000)

*Re: (BoostMiser)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoostMiser* »_
One question....can the stock clutch hold this type of power?

_Modified by BoostMiser at 1:49 PM 10-4-2003_

Not for long...


----------



## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: (Turbobug)*

Along with this kit , if you don't have a FMIC or an upgraded SMIC you should , and a new clutch ... and maybe a LSD
so the cost of this kit pluss 800-1000 for the Intercooler and another 600-800 for the clutch. this is a 7000-10000 dollar upgrade depending on if you have friends to do the labour and what quality parts you buy.

Don't get me wrong though i like the looks so far.
when my Mk iv is paid off my dilemma will be to dump money into it or buy a 5 year old s4 and drop 12 into a stage 3 for it.
what are the opinions?
Stage 3 Dubwerks with all the fixings - FMIC clutch SUSPENSION EXHAUST..........) 300hp or so
or
Stage 3 2.7 Bturbo s4 ( with just go parts no show ) suspension exhaust FMIC clutch 400hp
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: (Turbobug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turbobug* »_
Not for long...

Wow, so tell us how the car felt when you drove it?? Becuase IIRC, I drove it with the stock clutch and I thought it was fine. Now, it may not hold up to 4k clutch drops on slicks, but for the street it was fine. The car had 25k on it. Maybe with an older clutch, it would be a different story.
I believe a aftermarket clutch was installed in SoCal, so it can only get better.


----------



## ReverendHorton (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (BatiGol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BatiGol* »_I drove it with the stock clutch and I thought it was fine.

I bet it felt great, but with that much power I have to agree that IMO the stock clutch would not have held on for long. I've seen a few posts on here from APRIII guys who burnt out their stock clutch not long after the upgrade, and I think we can assume we will see the same thing from Dubwerks if not worse.


_Modified by ReverendHorton at 4:51 PM 10-4-2003_


----------



## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: (Driverwanted)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Driverwanted* »_what are the opinions?
Stage 3 Dubwerks with all the fixings - FMIC clutch SUSPENSION EXHAUST..........) 300hp or so
or
Stage 3 2.7 Bturbo s4 ( with just go parts no show ) suspension exhaust FMIC clutch 400hp

300 HP of which most of it will get to the ground in a 3000 pound FWD package
or
400 HP with lots of drivetrain loss in a 3700 pound AWD package
I'll take #1 please.


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (TRBNIUM)*

I agree. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

you guys obviously don't know what it's like having useless wheel spin in first through third gear. 
Then again I need a quaife


----------



## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (gt2437)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BlownG (Feb 28, 2003)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

I see that you have based this kit on the 180 hp engine, How well will it perform in the audi TT 225 engine? What whp or even crank hp considering its not a 4wd.


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_you guys obviously don't know what it's like having useless wheel spin in first through third gear. 
Then again I need a quaife









Or maybe you need better tires.







I know it's a weak comparison but I'm on stock dif and Azenis Sports and I get no spin. Hardly ever. I hope that changes when I switch to the 3.94 when the LSD goes in within the next month. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
Or maybe you need better tires.







I know it's a weak comparison but I'm on stock dif and Azenis Sports and I get no spin. Hardly ever. I hope that changes when I switch to the 3.94 when the LSD goes in within the next month. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yeah, I'm on the stock 225hp TT tire/rim combo that came with Bridgestone Potenza RE040's. They have a pretty lame directional pattern to them but are quite sticky for what they are. They only have a 140 treadwear to them








don't worry they won't last much longer









added pic:










_Modified by gt2437 at 11:41 PM 10-4-2003_


----------



## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

Whats wheelspin? I can hardly break traction on launches!
Lets pray they port the programming to the 180 and 225tt platforms! If so ill have a 300whp awd 1.8t!


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (BoostedJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoostedJetta* »_Whats wheelspin? I can hardly break traction on launches!
Lets pray they port the programming to the 180 and 225tt platforms! If so ill have a 300whp awd 1.8t!

it's not just programming you would have to worry about in your quattro 180hp TT, it will also most likely require a downpipe specific to your application (like APR STG3 for your car).


----------



## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: (gt2437)*

Yea i know, im still hoping!


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_WOW! I never would have thought the STI had that much drivetrain loss! So they're trapping 104-105 bone stock with only that much power to the ground?

The STI and EVO would dyno a lot higher if they were on a Dynojet. The Dyno Dynamics give much lower #s than a Dynojet. I bet the EVO/STI would put down >250whp on a Dynojet.


----------



## Jeff'sGTIAWW (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: (mj6234)*

bump for some monday info. in the morning on the kit's pricing and release date http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
The STI and EVO would dyno a lot higher if they were on a Dynojet. The Dyno Dynamics give much lower #s than a Dynojet. I bet the EVO/STI would put down >250whp on a Dynojet.

They may show higher overall #'s on a Dynojet, but I think it's interesting to see how close they come to each other. Even if they did get higher peak values, they'd still be something like 249 for the EVO and 254 for the STI, which is tight. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Edited cause I can't type for poo...


----------



## chois (May 12, 2000)

*Re: (BoostMiser)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoostMiser* »_Only problem is getting the power to the ground....which the STi and Evo don't have issues with







. We need a kit like this for the R32.

Like this?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1016160 
A little pricy, but a LOT fast. Totally different car though than what is being discussed here. I am looking forward to seeing Rich's car on the dyno shortly, and checking out the installation. I'm not in the market for such a kit, but it sure sounds interesting.


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
The STI and EVO would dyno a lot higher if they were on a Dynojet. The Dyno Dynamics give much lower #s than a Dynojet. I bet the EVO/STI would put down >250whp on a Dynojet.

NO.
Awd cars generally loose anywhere from 22 tp 25% power getting to the ground. This means that numbers around 225 - 230 whp are EXPECTED from the WRX and STi.


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (VarLordahl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VarLordahl* »_
NO.
Awd cars generally loose anywhere from 22 tp 25% power getting to the ground. This means that numbers around 225 - 230 whp are EXPECTED from the WRX and STi.

What do you mean NO? There is a dyno from Dyno Dyamics running around showing 125whp stock and 160whp chipped. Don't tell me it doesn't read lower.


----------



## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: (mj6234)*

ah, the great dyno debate....
no one ever agrees on this....lets just stop here


----------



## pumpkin02 (Oct 26, 1999)

*Re: (Beaker In RPG)*

Yeah really. So when is the Dubwerks kit for OUR cars coming out? More importantly, how much $$?


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (pumpkin02)*


----------



## turbo02gti (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re:*

No updates in 6 days..







, I think somebody is slacking...


----------



## chaugner (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Re: (turbo02gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbo02gti* »_No updates in 6 days..







, I think somebody is slacking...









or busy getting everything ready


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (chaugner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaugner* »_
or busy getting everything ready









I talk to Katie often. It's all coming together.


----------



## Jeff'sGTIAWW (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

anything you know that we haven't heard yet?


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Jeff'sGTIAWW)*

Nope.


----------



## Jeff'sGTIAWW (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

my buddy just dropped a built STI motor into his Impreza 2.5RS coupe and his roomate is getting the tuning right on his GT25 A4.... I need to know how long i'll have to save up and get my a** kicked till I can hang w/ em... help me Katie.


----------



## genxguy (May 26, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Jeff'sGTIAWW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeff'sGTIAWW* »_my buddy just dropped a built STI motor into his Impreza 2.5RS coupe and his roomate is getting the tuning right on his GT25 A4.... I need to know how long i'll have to save up and get my a** kicked till I can hang w/ em... help me Katie.









hmm. you got quite a challenge there. A4 gt25 I wouldn't get too worried about, but an STI motor, 'built', in a light 2.5RS body?


----------



## Jeff'sGTIAWW (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: (genxguy)*

by the time i can finally afford this kit and the parts required to compliment it, the Audi will be going GT30R... both are anticipating 350whp fully tuned.. come on dubwerks... what are the race prog. #'s and pricing?


----------



## chim-chim1.8t (Jul 8, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Jeff'sGTIAWW)*

bump.... yeah the final numbers on race prog. with front mount etc will be crazy, i cant wait to see them.... then i cant wait to get sucked into the back of my seat once i put that sheit in... with a bunch of these kits out there i see a few 12 sec cars in the future... maybe 11 with work.


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: Re: (chim-chim1.8t)*

bizzump


----------



## BORA 18T (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: (VarLordahl)*

bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: (chaugner)*

Can someone re-cap for us what is known. I would love to sit down and read 21 pages , but i have a lot going on....
Numbers price etc so far , also Katie , any canadian distributers lined up yet ?


_Modified by Driverwanted at 7:57 AM 10-8-2003_


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Driverwanted)*

Numbers and pricing haven't been released so there is nothing to talk about.


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

so dizzy, when is the kit coming out and how much does it cost? When is it coming out? 
Sorry, but I am too lazy to read the post above mine


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (BatiGol)*

In the future and a lot less the wideopen's kit.


----------



## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

I'm sure the kit will get the ultimate test here in da South. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## drm916 (Dec 6, 2000)

*Re: Re: (KrautFed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KrautFed* »_I'm sure the kit will get the ultimate test here in da South. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









lots o' testing.... But arent you an APR guy KrautFed? LOL....


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (drm916)*

By products yes, mentality no. And all his money is going towards his Rabbit project, not his MK4.


----------



## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

All of my money is going toward my Rabbit project too......
My 03 Rabbit!!!








Bump for updates. 21 pages now....


----------



## Blade (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: Re: (drm916)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drm916* »_
lots o' testing.... But arent you an APR guy KrautFed? LOL....

He is an enthusiest......don't form walls where there should be none.


----------



## drm916 (Dec 6, 2000)

*Re: Re: (Blade)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blade* »_
He is an enthusiest......don't form walls where there should be none.

its a joke people relax........


----------



## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: (drm916)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drm916* »_its a joke people relax........









Me and Jonathan are cool. (for the people that didnt know lol)


----------



## drm916 (Dec 6, 2000)

*Re: Re: (KrautFed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KrautFed* »_
Me and Jonathan are cool. (for the people that didnt know lol)

















exactly.... KrautFed is obviously faster than my GIAC car..... I just gotta give him some hell sometimes. 
As soon as I learn to drive I will bring out my GIAC car... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: Re: (drm916)*

When they had the car in Cali for tuning, I remember they were at (only)







284whp, did they get it up to 300whp before they left? And did they do the race programming?


----------



## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: (BatiGol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BatiGol* »_so dizzy, when is the kit coming out and how much does it cost? When is it coming out? 
Sorry, but I am too lazy to read the post above mine









your humor is just so funny.....


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (16vracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vracer* »_When they had the car in Cali for tuning, I remember they were at (only)







284whp, did they get it up to 300whp before they left? And did they do the race programming?

Rich is hitting the rollers on a DynoJet with 93 and 100 octane on Thursday. Stay tuned folks.


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Driverwanted)*

wah wah it wasn't directed at you.....















now sssshhh or else I will deport you back to Europe










_Modified by BatiGol at 2:37 PM 10-8-2003_


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: (16vracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vracer* »_When they had the car in Cali for tuning, I remember they were at (only)







284whp, did they get it up to 300whp before they left? And did they do the race programming?

well fred....
As katie stated earlier, a FMIC was installed and I believe more dyno runs where done. I drove the car at the 284 whp tune and lets just say I think car would benefit from a upgraded intercooler.
every little bit helps.


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: Re: (BatiGol)*

b
u
m
p


----------



## Speedy G (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (VarLordahl)*

Wow finally got to the end of the thread.









I did have a question. How the H... does DW get 285whp on 91 octane at only 19psi? That turbo has to be the most efficient thing ever, or GIAC is hoping for a no-ping 91 octane







. 
The turbo flows 37lbs, which is comparable to a T3/T4E 40 trim, and slightly bigger than a T3 S60. Now I know tryrolkid wasn´t making that type of numbers at 19psi... or was he? Could it be the turbine choice (increases VE)? Or is it the manifold that maintains velocity (increases VE)? There´s something going on here beyond boost, proper ignition advance and fueling. I hope the dyno numbers aren´t optimistic. Like Billy said, that´s one interesting manifold.
Speedy G


_Modified by Speedy G at 12:10 AM 10-9-2003_


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Speedy G)*

Look at DISTURBO. He's making 315whp with a t3/[email protected]19psi with just revo and back yard tuning! I'd say this is very possible.


----------



## Speedy G (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

Hmm... on 91 octane? Anyone can make 300whp with a GT25 and above on 100 octane, but on 91? Actually his sig does say pump... But he´s running additional injectors with SDS.
Speedy G


_Modified by Speedy G at 12:43 AM 10-9-2003_


----------



## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Speedy G)*

He's making that on 93.


----------



## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: Re: (Speedy G)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Speedy G* »_Hmm... on 91 octane? Anyone can make 300whp with a GT25 and above on 100 octane, but on 91?_Modified by Speedy G at 12:43 AM 10-9-2003_

NO stage GT25 that I know of is running 300+ to the wheels. Even with FMICs!


----------



## Speedy G (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (barelyboosting1.8t)*

Well, so Disturbo is a good benchmark:
http://community.webshots.com/...h.jpg
Speedy G

_Modified by Speedy G at 12:52 AM 10-9-2003_


_Modified by Speedy G at 12:57 AM 10-9-2003_


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Speedy G)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Speedy G* »_Wow finally got to the end of the thread.








I did have a question. How the H... does DW get 285whp on 91 octane at only 19psi? That turbo has to be the most efficient thing ever, or GIAC is hoping for a no-ping 91 octane







. 
The turbo flows 37lbs, which is comparable to a T3/T4E 40 trim, and slightly bigger than a T3 S60. Now I know tryrolkid wasn´t making that type of numbers at 19psi... or was he? Could it be the turbine choice (increases VE)? Or is it the manifold that maintains velocity (increases VE)? There´s something going on here beyond boost, proper ignition advance and fueling. I hope the dyno numbers aren´t optimistic. Like Billy said, that´s one interesting manifold.
Speedy G

_Modified by Speedy G at 12:10 AM 10-9-2003_

I would say it's very possible. I think you are failing to consider the drastic drop in parasitic loss through the exhaust manifold. While people commonly believe that turbos provide "free" energy, unlike a supercharger which has obvious mechanical losses, it's not true..it does take energy to spoll the turbo. The stock exhaust manifold is so tiny that I'm sure there must be quite a few HP's freed up just by going to the tubular manifold.


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Speedy G)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Speedy G* »_I hope the dyno numbers aren´t optimistic. 

Those are not optimistic numbers, they were done on a mustang dyno with 91 octane in the tank...


----------



## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Adam20v)*

I didnt read all of the 22 pages of this thread, however, has anyone commented on the collector of this manifold? 
That collector isnt very ideal. You want the most tangential flow possible. That way it creates a turblent free area for the exhaust gasses to enter the turbine housing in even pulses at high velocities. 
Like this: 









im sure that manifold will make power, but it would make a hell of a lot more if the collector was designed differently, plus it would have faster spool up.


----------



## BatiGol (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: Re: (bobqzzi)*

the 285whp was made on 91oct, and stock IC. Maybe 19psi may be off, but when I drove the car, I was not able to pay attention to the boost gauge.
This was made on GIAC's 4wd mustang load type dyno.
Speedy, click on the link in my sig for more impressions. I think Moss states a boost level
and Of course, anything is possible when you with with the best in the biz, Dubwerks







, Innovative http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , and GIAC


----------



## XSiVE (Nov 1, 2000)

*Re: Re: (BatiGol)*

Where is Katie? We want more final numbers.


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: (XSiVE)*

Like Dizzy said on the previous page, Rich will be dyno'n today 93 & 100 octane files. I'm sure we will get an update shortly.


----------



## XSiVE (Nov 1, 2000)

*Re: Re: (Adam20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Adam20v* »_Like Dizzy said on the previous page, Rich will be dyno'n today 93 & 100 octane files. I'm sure we will get an update shortly.

I must have missed that.. my eyes go wacky after reading 22 pages of the same thread


----------



## Speedy G (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Adam20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Adam20v* »_
Those are not optimistic numbers, they were done on a mustang dyno with 91 octane in the tank...

We´ll have to see what the final numbers are, but so far I´d say it sounds like a great kit. A ball bearing option would be great to get some of that mid-range torque back. I´m sure some people would want to spend an extra 500 bucks for the BB option.
Speedy G


----------



## BORA 18T (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Speedy G)*

I'll give a he!! yeah to speedy G 's idea of a ball bearing option. Dubwerks are you listening?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (BORA 18T)*

Rich, what happened?


----------



## Jeff'sGTIAWW (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

yea. i've been checkin the boards religiously today hoping to get some numbers


----------



## BORA 18T (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Jeff'sGTIAWW)*


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: (BORA 18T)*

Need info....My bank account is begging me to empty her LOL. J/K But dropping some info about the new hp/trq. number's would be awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jkozaczka (Jun 13, 2003)

yes.... my bank account also is looking to be reduced by quite a bit right when something solid is put out about this kit.....


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Jcr1982)*

Hurry Hurry, I need to know.....lol need to give you guys the money before my wife gets home from out of town haha. If you've already got the money I can use "I'm sorry I can't get the money back now baby". 
I can already see her face







or







or







LOL


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Jcr1982)*

Hello guys, sorry to leave you hanging. We are working on getting everything together, we will release pricing, hp/tq numbers, full pictures when everything is finished. I will create a new post when its all ready so noone has to search through everything and locate all the information in different places. Everything is coming along nicely and we will be installing the kit on another test car shortly, I know everyone is excited, as are we. Thanks again!


----------



## VW4life (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: Re: ([email protected])*

hurry on up!!


----------



## ALTRn8 (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Re: ([email protected])*

Thanks Katie......


----------



## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hello guys, sorry to leave you hanging. We are working on getting everything together, we will release pricing, hp/tq numbers, full pictures when everything is finished. I will create a new post when its all ready so noone has to search through everything and locate all the information in different places. Everything is coming along nicely and we will be installing the kit on another test car shortly, I know everyone is excited, as are we. Thanks again!

What type of SS is used and what gauge is the thickness of the manifold? 304 and 16?


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Everything is coming along nicely and we will be installing the kit on another test car shortly


----------



## CruiseVW (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hello guys, sorry to leave you hanging. We are working on getting everything together, we will release pricing, hp/tq numbers, full pictures when everything is finished. I will create a new post when its all ready so noone has to search through everything and locate all the information in different places. Everything is coming along nicely and we will be installing the kit on another test car shortly, I know everyone is excited, as are we. Thanks again!

Might as well just wait to release it. By the time it comes out its going to freezing and the tracks are going to be close and my car is going to be garaged.


----------



## boraIV (Jan 8, 2001)

*Re: Re: (CruiseVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_
Might as well just wait to release it. By the time it comes out its going to freezing and the tracks are going to be close and my car is going to be garaged.









Not in phoenix!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: (CruiseVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CruiseVW* »_Might as well just wait to release it. By the time it comes out its going to freezing and the tracks are going to be close and my car is going to be garaged.









You just gotta step up. I plan to drive south until I find an open track if need be


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Adam20v)*

Yeah their not closed here in Ga Either


















_Modified by Jcr1982 at 12:57 PM 10-10-2003_


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: Re: (Adam20v)*

Everything is coming along nicely and we will be installing the kit on another test car shortly 


_Quote, originally posted by *Adam20v* »_


----------



## Adam20v (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: (TommyC83)*

Ok so I finally got my lazy ass out to dw and took a ride in Rich's beast. He was working on another car so he let his tech Tommy take me out. 
So Tommy (a very sexy guy, especially when he wears that lacey thing







) pulls out of dw into some traffic and isn't able to get on it right away. He does punch it in 2nd and right away the car pulls hard! Forward and side to side, Rich needs a diff








We make our way over to a "closed course" and the fun begins. We take off in first gear and holy crap, first gear is here and gone like nothing. If you thought first gear was worthless in your chipped car, boy are you in for a surprise. Launching the car at the drag strip is going to take allot of experimenting to get right. I'm sure he/I/we will get it down








Tommy grabs second and we are through that before I can catch my breath. We got through 2nd gear faster than my car gets through first. 7000 rpms comes real fast and the car is just begging to rev higher, it does not drop off one bit.
Now into 3rd gear is where it starts getting real fun. The car pulls extremely hard and you get through 3rd and up to 100+ very quickly. At the top of 3rd in between shifts I let out a Woo! and this was my face







I definetely got a rush out of it. Once we were in 4th the car just kept pulling and pulling, we had to get off of it shortly after we got into 4th, but the car was hungry for more.
My impression is that this car is nothing less than a beast. And this is on pump gas. I've ridden in an apr stg3 car on race gas, and Rich's car on pump gas pulled harder and longer than the APR car. There is no let down at the top of any gear, the turbo is screaming for more.
Driving around in traffic was fine, the car felt completely normal. The only thing wrong was that I could hear it wispering to us...hit it, floor me...








As far as any lag goes, I didn't really notice it. The turbo spools up very quickly. Once it is spooled it stays that way in between shifts. 
I can't wait for dub werks to release this kit to the public because I am just itching to get one







The car is ccccrrrrraaaaazzzzzyyyyy!































_Modified by Adam20v at 6:13 PM 10-11-2003_


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Adam20v)*

Can I get a WOO WOO?


----------



## PineappleMonkey (Mar 2, 2000)

*Re: Re: (VDUBNDizzy)*

w00t














I drove the dw car a few times and all I can say is that some feelings are going to be hurt when this kit comes out


----------



## BOY-RCR (Sep 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: (PineappleMonkey)*

How about I volunteer my 20AE as the next 'test car"








I know, i know...big sacrifice...but someone has to do it


----------



## SAVWaterWagens (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: Re: (BOY-RCR)*

All I can say is, Great Job guys. If the kit is anywhere near as good as we have heard you guys definately have a market......And Im definately in that market. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

Ditto.... I have less than 2 years of warranty on my car , and i have already bugun saving for this


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re:*


_Quote »_My impression is that this car is nothing less than a beast. And this is on pump gas. I've ridden in an apr stg3 car on race gas, and Rich's car on pump gas pulled harder and longer than the APR car. There is no let down at the top of any gear, the turbo is screaming for more.

Rich's car also has a FMIC, right?
it's also difficult to compare two cars without actually driving both of them when their power outputs are about the same (DB on pump and APR on race gas).


_Modified by gt2437 at 10:46 AM 10-12-2003_


----------



## exS4 (Nov 8, 2002)

*I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason!*

The Pic of the Dubwerks kit show the Turbo prominently displayed on top of the Engine.
That's all fine and good for showing-off, but since I live in Kalifornia where Smog Checks
are the toughest in the world, I would never pass the visual inspection with the DubWerks Kit.
Whereas with the ATP Stg2 kit for example, the Turbo goes in the stock location and looks stock to the untrained eye. Otherwise I'd LOVE to buy the DubKit!!
I hope that for the sake of the street driven cars, which I believe will be the vast majority of the potential consumers of their kit, that Dubwerks will reconsider the location of the turbo.


_Modified by exS4 at 5:05 PM 10-12-2003_


----------



## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (exS4)*

That's a valid concern, but I don't think they are going to change the manifold and everything else needed to move the turbo this late in the game.


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_That's a valid concern, but I don't think they are going to change the manifold and everything else needed to move the turbo this late in the game.









I think they would probably catch you on other stuff in CA anyway. What about the new cat you are going to need? Sucks to live in CA where they are strict about everything. Oh well, I guess that is ONE benefit of living in the Midwest where no one really gives a rip. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
VDUBN, I wasn't directing this at you. Sorry.


_Modified by mj6234 at 10:42 AM 10-12-2003_


----------



## SAVWaterWagens (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (mj6234)*

Yeah thats a very valid concern, I can only give thanks that they don't do that stuff here in Ga.


----------



## exS4 (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (SAVWaterWagens)*

Since Cali has more carz than ANY other State, 
I would think that DubWerkz would be interested in making sure that Cali customers are taken care-of... Perhaps not.
P.S. If You think this doesn't effect you, just because you live in some other State,
You are living in a dream world, because unfortunately California's Smog Rules are being adopted all over... no matter how absurd they may be! 


_Modified by exS4 at 11:16 PM 10-12-2003_


----------



## bmxvr6 (Dec 11, 2000)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (exS4)*

California is a very small market so don't kid yourself. Dubwerks is about power and thats it. People who are concrened about CARB or smog checks need not apply here.
Do you know how much $$$ and time it takes to get things through CARB anyway? More then pretty much any VW tuner is willing to spend.
I know many people in CA with very modded cars and as street drivers. I am sure if you are crafty you will figure out a way to pull it off. If you are just here to complain about California's lame rules take it elsewhere as this is not the place. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ABTMuDa (Mar 16, 2001)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (bmxvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bmxvr6* »_California is a very small market so don't kid yourself. Dubwerks is about power and thats it. People who are concrened about CARB or smog checks need not apply here.
Do you know how much $$$ and time it takes to get things through CARB anyway? More then pretty much any VW tuner is willing to spend.
I know many people in CA with very modded cars and as street drivers. I am sure if you are crafty you will figure out a way to pull it off. If you are just here to complain about California's lame rules take it elsewhere as this is not the place. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## exS4 (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (bmxvr6)*

"California is a very small market so don't kid yourself. Dubwerks is about power and thats it. People who are concrened about CARB or smog checks need not apply here.
Do you know how much $$$ and time it takes to get things through CARB anyway? More then pretty much any VW tuner is willing to spend.
I know many people in CA with very modded cars and as street drivers. I am sure if you are crafty you will figure out a way to pull it off. If you are just here to complain about California's lame rules take it elsewhere as this is not the place"
1st of all... You are an idiot!








California is THE LARGEST Automotive market in the WORLD!! 
Not just in the U.S! Do your homework DunceBoy!! 
Second of all, I am not expecting DubWerx to pass CARB, 
(although Neuspeed doesn't seem to have any problems doing-so with their products!)
I(and I believe most people) would be satisfied if Dubwerx would simply mount the Turbo in the Stock location under the engine to avoid unnessessary hassles! 
IS THAT TOO MUCH TOO ASK????
Is there a Performance reason why they mounted their Turbo on top? NO!
They just did it to show-off their Turbo! 
Although I agree they SHOULD be PROUD of their accomplishment, 
it is not productive for street use to place it where they currently have it.
Again, You-sir, are an idiot!


_Modified by exS4 at 12:20 AM 10-13-2003_


----------



## bmxvr6 (Dec 11, 2000)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (exS4)*

Take it easy old man, truth hurts huh? 
Mounting the Turbo up top to show it off? You are a real winner. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Did you ever think fitment might have anything to do with that? Have you ever seen the size of the DW turbo compared to a KO3/KO4/GT28? Tell me how to put a Turbo of that size down there and still keep the air intake and IC plumbing locations able to use OEM setups. Also you need to remember there is an external wastegate to fit in there as well.
Good luck with that one. 
I have a little more experience in this market then you think so please calm down.
I am sure that if Dubwerks would be able to they would keep the kit stock looking for people like you, but again you are the not the majority and things simply wouldn't fit any other way.


----------



## BORA 18T (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (exS4)*

I thought the reason for the mounting was because of the exhaust manifold design.







plus take it easy exs4, I understand your reasoning but we don't want this thread locked!







CCCCHHHHIIIILLLLL


----------



## exS4 (Nov 8, 2002)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (bmxvr6)*

The ATP Stg3 kit for example, uses a GT30R(A BIG Honkin' Turbo!) which (I think) is mounted in the stock location right?(I apologize if I'm wrong) 
In any event, if there's a valid reason to fit the turbo up top, that's fine with me. 
However, I still say that other guy, who claimed that the California market is inconsequential needs to take his head out of his... you know what! 
Furthermore, Why would having a disagreement cause this thread to be locked?
This still is the land of free speech no? 



_Modified by exS4 at 12:43 AM 10-13-2003_


----------



## bmxvr6 (Dec 11, 2000)

*RE: exS4*

I know the Industry in California is the largest in the World but the market of VW buyers in that state is not nearly big enough to be of concern. No matter how many names you want to call me that will not change.
Go ahead and buy an ATP GT30R kit and enjoy the fine lack of software and problems you will face while the other 49 states(and many Cali cars I am sure) have very usable very powerful Dubwerks/GIAC tuned machines plenty suited for year round daily driving.


----------



## BORA 18T (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: exS4 (bmxvr6)*

Katie where are you?


----------



## bmxvr6 (Dec 11, 2000)

*Re: exS4 (BORA 18T)*

Probably laughing at home.


----------



## chim-chim1.8t (Jul 8, 2003)

*Re: exS4 (bmxvr6)*

yeah, ron knows his sheit, so lay off.... this is one of those products that are "not for street use"... if you want to make big numbers, you have to bend the laws a bit... the market as a whole does not want "the most power that it can legally have in every nook and crany of said market", they want "the most power that they can squeeze out of the car safely that is tuned properly so that nothing blows up".... why settle for less when more feels soooo good.... that said, if you need to keep your car 100% street legal and cant find a way around it, then go another route... do you think when big-blocks were makin huge power that they took the entire market into consideration? no way, they wanted the fastest car out there.


----------



## technofly7 (Apr 7, 2002)

_Quote »_This still is the land of free speech no? 

yes we have that freedom. but lets just not have this thread locked because of disigreaments on something this minor.
so lets all get along and start another post where you can crab about everyones diffrences. 
dubwerks kit will be da bomb when its released.


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: (technofly7)*

okay, I have checked all 23 pages.....
Are there any pics available that show the piping from the airbox to the turbo inlet, and from the turbo to the intercooler?
I ask specifically for New Beetle owners whom may be interested in this kit. With the front overhang of the New Beetle and the location of the turbo in this kit, the piping may be an issue if installed in a New Beetle.
Thanks!


----------



## bmxvr6 (Dec 11, 2000)

*Re: (technofly7)*

No doubt. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TommyC83 (Mar 24, 2000)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (exS4)*

You boys need to simmer down a bit not every shop has the financial means to c.a.r.b every product that they make and offer to the public thats why 99% of aftermarket parts sold are sold "For offroad use only". California is a huge part of the tuning world and people who really want this kit or any kit for that matter are going to buy it regardless of what they may need to do to get around emmisions laws. 
Now for the placement of the turbo with the use of an equal length tubular header with the chosen size turbo and the use of an external wastegate I think the only options available were where it is or somewhere in the trunk because that is a lot of stuff to fit into the confined area known as a VW engine bay.

Tommy


_Modified by TommyC83 at 9:22 PM 10-12-2003_


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## cburkart (Jan 10, 2000)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (TommyC83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TommyC83* »_...not every shop has the financial means to c.a.r.b every product that they make and offer to the public thats why 99% of aftermarket parts sold are sold "For offroad use only"...

I believe that even Neuspeed's K04 kit is "for offroad use only" so I doubt there is anyone selling a CARB legal turbo upgrade kit...


----------



## turbo02gti (Feb 5, 2002)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (cburkart)*

I don't see how your car will fail an emmisions test just because you have a bigger turbo on it. If they strap it to the test machine and the numbers are within passing range then how or why can they fail you? If they fail you only because you had to remove the OEM CAT then can't you just make an adapter that bolts up to the dubwerks exhaust manifold and allows you to throw on the OEM CAT for inspection day then just remove it afterwards?


----------



## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (exS4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *exS4* »_Since Cali has more carz than ANY other State, 
I would think that DubWerkz would be interested in making sure that Cali customers are taken care-of... Perhaps not.
P.S. If You think this doesn't effect you, just because you live in some other State,
You are living in a dream world, because unfortunately California's Smog Rules are being adopted all over... no matter how absurd they may be! 

_Modified by exS4 at 11:16 PM 10-12-2003_

Why is it that all the guys from California have to replace letters and mispell words just to look cool? It never fails. When I see posts like "Waz UP,Yo I needz to get Me a BiG A$$ blInGIN Turbo from Dubwerkz," for example, they poster is almost ALWAYS, without fail, from California. The few times they are not, they are from the New Jersey/New York area. Why do these two areas butcher the language so much? Why not just spell "Dubwerks" correctly? Why look like an idiot and spell it Dubwerkz? The "z" is harder to reach on the keyboard than the "s" is. It actually takes more effort to spell it wrong, yet they do it anyway








As for carb approval - BOO HOO. Cry me a river. You can expect intakes. chips, and other wus mods to be carb approved, but if you're telling me that an affordable kit that doubles your stock horsepower also should have to be CARB legal, then you are mistaken. Emissions is one problem that grows proportionally with how much aftermarket-horsepower you add to your car. More boost, more gas, more air with more contaminants in it, more valve overlap, and less exhaust restriction and catalytic cleansing ALWAYS INCREASES EMISSIONS. Live with it. Embrace it. If you can't live with the fact that your 1.8 liter engine has to be illegal to drive in order to produce 300 whp, then go buy a camaro SS and stop bothering us on these boards.
Also, in one of your posts, you asked it Dubwerks would "Consider" relocating the turbocharger.
Do you know anything about this kit? THe whole difficulty in making this kit is having the manifold welded to fit, all the plumbing to match up correctly, and to get it all under the hood without relocating too much or rubbing against the firewall.
"SIMPLY RELOCATING" the turbo is like saying "Hey, I don't like the fact that I can see the turbocharger, so could you redo the ENTIRE KIT FROM SCRATCH?
The long and the short of it is that the more power you want, the more sacrifices you need to make. Money, emmissions, engine bay space...you name it, and you sacrifice it the more power you make.


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (VarLordahl)*

Also, you made some reference to Neuspeed's parts being carb approved. A couple things:
a) I think only their bolt-on mods like intake/exhaust/chip are carb approved, and no wonder, none of them does a damn thing to increase your car's power save for maybe the exhaust. 
b) Their K04 kit is NOT carb approved. Further, it puts out less power than an otherwise stock chipped GIAC AWW 1.8t. 
Ultimately, Neuspeed is not benchmark for industry excellence in any way as far as VW tuning goes. Maybe 10 years ago, but not anymore!


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## Y26 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (VarLordahl)*

Let me get this thread back from the dead~
^


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re:*


_Quote, originally posted by *Y26* »_Let me get this thread back from the dead~
^









bump for engine shot pics from above with intake piping and charged air piping to intercooler!









_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_okay, I have checked all 23 pages.....
Are there any pics available that show the piping from the airbox to the turbo inlet, and from the turbo to the intercooler?
I ask specifically for New Beetle owners whom may be interested in this kit. With the front overhang of the New Beetle and the location of the turbo in this kit, the piping may be an issue if installed in a New Beetle.
Thanks! 




_Modified by gt2437 at 10:13 PM 10-13-2003_


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## fitch (Aug 9, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Abdel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Abdel* »_wow







Manifold is awesome..

i know


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## 2KGTI-t (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: I think I'll PASS on the DubWerks kit for 1 simple reason! (cburkart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cburkart* »_
I believe that even Neuspeed's K04 kit is "for offroad use only" so I doubt there is anyone selling a CARB legal turbo upgrade kit...

greddy is... the one for our cars isnt readily available... but they make their kits 50 state legal


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (fitch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fitch* »_wow







Manifold is awesome..

hrmm, not really....


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## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

Bump for EVEN MORE info, or at least a new thread, cause damn this is long now.
CARB sucks. Period. I love living in Cochise County AZ. Smog checks? We don't need no stinking smog checks!! CCAZ's idea of a "Car inspection" is to make sure all your VIN'S match so they know your car isn't a "Mexico recovery special".
And I'm sorry to say, VWVortex is NOT the land of free speech. Perfektonline is, which is why I don't go there at work.


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## PineappleMonkey (Mar 2, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ma$e* »_
hrmm, not really....










Why not?


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (PineappleMonkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PineappleMonkey* »_

Why not? 

I guess cuz it's not a $1200 Full Race manifold.


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## DimcheMKV (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_
I guess cuz it's not a $1200 Full Race manifold.









LOL i didnt get what ya ment till i clicked the link in sig


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## SAVWaterWagens (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (DimcheMKV)*

Bump


----------



## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (PineappleMonkey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PineappleMonkey* »_

Why not? 

It looks like a thin 16 gauge manifold, they are prone to cracking. second the collector, or lack there of, will have exactly the same effect of a log type manifold, the velocities of the runners will intersect, thus having a bad effect on flow.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

Seems to be working fine for them thus far?


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Seems to be working fine for them thus far?









Im sure some will work perfectly, and if they welded it good enough, which takes a lot to prep and weld correctly, they'll have no problems but we see it all the time w/ the meng/obx/spark racing manifolds for honda's, boy do they look pretty, until 3 months later the wastegate runner falls completely off because the manifold cracked at the weld.








with that design You have the bad qualitys of both welded (chance of cracking instead of cast SS that has a very slim chance of cracking) and the bad quality of flow ( just like a log manifold)
Dont mean to bad mouth by any means, just giving some suggestions.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

Well, get us a hookup on the Full Race mani's and maybe Dubwerks will go through them.







Until then, I don't think they'll have a problem warranty-ing the hardware if it cracks.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Well, get us a hookup on the Full Race mani's and maybe Dubwerks will go through them.







Until then, I don't think they'll have a problem warranty-ing the hardware if it cracks.

that's a lot of labor/time if you gotta replace the manifold even if it is warrantied. Think good thoughts. It will come out beefy with superior welds and will not be subject to any cracking.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (gt2437)*

If you enjoy working on your car and understand you gotta pay to play then you'll know that ANY manifold can be prone to cracking. Not EVERY TIG is perfect. Sh!t happens. There's always a price to pay for performance.


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barelyboosting1.8t* »_Well, get us a hookup on the Full Race mani's and maybe Dubwerks will go through them.







Until then, I don't think they'll have a problem warranty-ing the hardware if it cracks.

warranty is all hear say, just because you have a warranty, does it mean it wont crack? of course not. 
im sure you've seen tommy boy, anyone can guarantee a pile of ****, but what is good is that guarantee going to do when you're 300 miles away from home and the manifold/weld fails. plus not only will you have to take the time to take off the turbo/mani assembly, but you will have to ship it off, have lots of down time while they fix the problem, take the time to install it again, and pray to god you wont have to do that again. (again im not saying for sure this manifold will crack)
Why do u think full-race charges a lot for manifolds? do u think they make hundreds of dollars of profit? Im not gonna lie, they dont. Its expensive to make a single manifold, the materials are extremely expensive (8 gauge) plus it takes many many hours just to do the collector alone. 
In the long run, yes you will pay more, but like it was said, you have to pay more to play, and having the performance advantage over many other companys combined with the fact a manifold such as a full-race manifold will never fail, that to me is worth the extra $$. 
sorry to sound like there is nothing better than full-race. lol im not trying to sell anything, just give u guys an example. 
I would hook people up, but for one, FR doesnt make manifolds for vw's well yet anyways, and two production is far backed up as it is


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## Trauma (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (barelyboosting1.8t)*

All i would like to know is, will there be a kit for the AWP 2003 model?


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ma$e* »_
FR doesnt make manifolds for vw's 

So why are you here then?


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_
So why are you here then?









this board is full of misinformation, and its sad to see people take in, and believe the wrong ideology. 
LOL and are you saying if FR made a VW manifold, I would be allowed to post here?


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

No, but you shouldn't be pushing a company that doesn't make parts for VW's in a thread about the 2nd complete turbo kit to hit the market for 1.8t's. Start a new thread if that's your purpose.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_No, but you shouldn't be pushing a company that doesn't make parts for VW's in a thread about the *2nd* complete turbo kit to hit the market for 1.8t's. Start a new thread if that's your purpose. 

2nd?


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VDUBNDizzy)*

i made suggestions to the company that makes the manifold/kit, they should rethink it over. Id like to see a company such at theirs, have a successful kit on the market. maybe you should reread my posts again, and you will read that i even stated i wasnt trying to sell anything, but make suggestions.


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
2nd?








Who besides GIAC and APR can make relieable software for a big turbo at this point? (REVO has yet to be seen) And coming from you, it's just another smart azz comment about APR being the best.


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ma$e* »_i made suggestions to the company that makes the manifold/kit, they should rethink it over. Id like to see a company such at theirs, have a successful kit on the market. 

Did you even read the rest of the thread? Probably not. But the manifold will be braced for support. And it's being made by ITS, not DubWerks. Read the thread before you start _making suggestions_.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_







Who besides GIAC and APR can make relieable software for a big turbo at this point? (REVO has yet to be seen) And coming from you, it's just another smart azz comment about APR being the best. 

Actually, I found it amusing that you stated 2nd because you left out all ATP efforts STG2/3/4. Since you have clarified on the programming, now I see why you stated it the way you did.








sorry, but I don't have an attitude that some may associate with APR STG3 owners.


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## BoostedJetta (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VDUBNDizzy)*

Yea Ma$e i doubt ITS/Dubwerks is gonna put out an inferior manifold on a kit they know will be making high power #s







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
and another http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif for getting into it with Barelyboosting, hes the Dub-King or Master Dubber or other nicknames i choose to bestow upon him!


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## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (gt2437)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt2437* »_
Actually, I found it amusing that you stated 2nd because you left out all ATP efforts STG2/3/4. Since you have clarified on the programming, now I see why you stated it the way you did.








sorry, but I don't have an attitude that some may associate with APR STG3 owners.









Yeah, dont forget about us wimpy stage 2 guys!








And I dont see the the same attitude that I see in other SIII owners. You seem to respect other company's and products, not simply bash them for being of a different company.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (new 337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *new 337* »_
You seem to respect other company's and products, not simply bash them for being of a different company.









thanks


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (BoostedJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoostedJetta* »_Yea Ma$e i doubt ITS/Dubwerks is gonna put out an inferior manifold on a kit they know will be making high power #s







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 



Well its obvious you know nothing about fluids mechanics.
This board is far far worse than Honda-tech. You people are amazing, seriously. 
But hey, I guess im wrong, maybe I should change my major from Engineering to Business cuz i know nothing, and im sure all the Professional Engineers that made that manifold know far far more about Forced Induction then I ever will. 
cheers


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## Deadking (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

Bump for more info and a SHUT THE HELL UP







award to all the fighting. I gives a dam about which manifold is better cause this kit is STILL A PROTOTYPE, and some of us are awaiting our judgement for the final version!!!!





















Jezzz!
Now, PLEASE can we get back on topic? If you want to have a pissing contest, take it to IM.















Katie, (DESPERATLY) looking forward to the new post!!!!


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## BORA 18T (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Deadking)*

GIVE ME A HE!! YEAH!!!!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Harryhd (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ma$e* »_
this board is full of misinformation, and its sad to see people take in, and believe the wrong ideology.


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## eunos94 (Mar 17, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Harryhd)*


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## Turbobug (Jun 8, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (eunos94)*

everyone kiss and make up


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VDUBNDizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VDUBNDizzy* »_No, but you shouldn't be pushing a company that doesn't make parts for VW's in a thread about the 2nd complete turbo kit to hit the market for 1.8t's. Start a new thread if that's your purpose. 

2nd?
Didn't PES and Greddy make their kits first?


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Turbobug)*

WOW!! Whats happening in here??? Posting misinformation, lets talk about that. This is NOT a 16 gauge manifold, 16 gauge is thin, this is a big BEEFY manifold. This is a 308 Stainless Schedule 10 manifold which is also braced. It is 90 thousandths thick (equivalent to 2.28mm), this is in no way a cheap, thin manifold. Now for the collector, we chose this way to create faster spool by optimizing all 4 cylinder pulses at once, as oposed to a domestic style collector which utilizes individual cylinder pulses. By utilizing all 4 cylinder pulses at once this manifold will allow the turbo to spool slightly faster.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ([email protected])*

Hi Katie! Thanks for the info







Any more recent shots from the engine bay?


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Dub_Technik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub_Technik* »_All i would like to know is, will there be a kit for the AWP 2003 model? 

Yes it will.


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## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_WOW!! Whats happening in here??? Posting misinformation, lets talk about that. This is NOT a 16 gauge manifold, 16 gauge is thin, this is a big BEEFY manifold. This is a 308 Stainless Schedule 10 manifold which is also braced. It is 90 thousandths thick (equivalent to 2.28mm), this is in no way a cheap, thin manifold. Now for the collector, we chose this way to create faster spool by optimizing all 4 cylinder pulses at once, as oposed to a domestic style collector which utilizes individual cylinder pulses. By utilizing all 4 cylinder pulses at once this manifold will allow the turbo to spool slightly faster.

0wn3d.


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## Trauma (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ([email protected])*

Thank-you for the reply Katie, you just made my day! Hmmm....might have to be the 1st awp with this kit in SoCali!
Please keep us posted.
Thanks


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## Beaker In RPG (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Dub_Technik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub_Technik* »_Thank-you for the reply Katie, you just made my day! Hmmm....might have to be the 1st awp with this kit in SoCali!
Please keep us posted.
Thanks

hey, get in line!


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## Super1.8T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_WOW!! Whats happening in here??? Posting misinformation, lets talk about that. This is NOT a 16 gauge manifold, 16 gauge is thin, this is a big BEEFY manifold. This is a 308 Stainless Schedule 10 manifold which is also braced. It is 90 thousandths thick (equivalent to 2.28mm), this is in no way a cheap, thin manifold. Now for the collector, we chose this way to create faster spool by optimizing all 4 cylinder pulses at once, as oposed to a domestic style collector which utilizes individual cylinder pulses. By utilizing all 4 cylinder pulses at once this manifold will allow the turbo to spool slightly faster.

Nice!! Bring out the can of whopp a$$!







And with the technical info, end of conversation . . . Haven't been here for a while and look what happens, sheesh.
Rest assured, ITS is working with DubWerks on this. Its GOING to be done right!
Katie, hope all is going well with development.


_Modified by Super1.8T at 8:57 PM 10-14-2003_


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_WOW!! Whats happening in here??? Posting misinformation, lets talk about that. This is NOT a 16 gauge manifold, 16 gauge is thin, this is a big BEEFY manifold. This is a 308 Stainless Schedule 10 manifold which is also braced. It is 90 thousandths thick (equivalent to 2.28mm), this is in no way a cheap, thin manifold. Now for the collector, we chose this way to create faster spool by optimizing all 4 cylinder pulses at once, as oposed to a domestic style collector which utilizes individual cylinder pulses. By utilizing all 4 cylinder pulses at once this manifold will allow the turbo to spool slightly faster.

When did i ever state your manifold was 16 gauge? i actually asked on page like 22, no response, I made the comparison of a 16 gauge manifold (such as a meng/sparks/obx). When i said "Misinformation" read the threads lately, its all BS. 
As for the collector, its been proven that low angle merge collectors designs minimize fluid friction within the collector itself.
Here is an example again:









the merge collector really makes the most sense in terms of keeping the exhaust gasses in a laminar state. While turbulence is key before the combustion event, high speed, and high temperature are definitely desired as the gasses enter the turbine.
Anything else simply wont make as much power, enough said. 
just out of curiosity, have you guys even bench flow tested the runners? 
P.S. you're nuts if you think your collector will spool faster than a tangential



_Modified by Ma$e at 2:31 AM 10-15-2003_


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## FliGti (Jul 3, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

I wouldnt argue w/ mase, he knows his ****, and will own you hard.


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## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (FliGti)*

Many a great scientist (or engineer) have been proven wrong, however , we should really wait to see how the product does, Ma$e , thanks for the input , however if the product is putting out 300HP to the wheel , i don't think the flow of the manifold is that big an issue ? we should really wait to see the longevity of the product in actual owner experience before we re-invent the wheel. it's too bad your company doesn't make manifolds for VW's from what you say , you could design a really good one.
also , it may just be my opinion, but your method of information sharing comes off very demeaning and rude, i would suggest that this is why 90% of your posts in this thread have been met with smart a$$ remarks or silence. You might have good info to share if people wanted to listen.... work on the delivery man. and if you don't care whether people listen , why bother typing....

also thanks for sharing a few more technical specs Katie.... for those of us watching this thread , please let us know when/if you start an new one with the pricing and higher octane programs.


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

The angle of the collectors should be kept at below 20º max for minimum flow losses. Also Thermal retention should be considered. With long tube runners you will lose a great deal of heat. Think about how much cooler your exhaust is from the exit point of the turbo, to the cat. It' well over a couple hundred degrees cooler. Since the air cools, you also get less pressure(energy) to spool the turbo. The bending of the pipes in all different direction also removes some of the potential energy from the exhaust gasses.
One thing I don't agree with is that this manifold would be as bad as the log style manifolds. The tight angles seen in 99% of log manifolds to the turbine inlet produce MUCH more turbulance then any with a collector. 
I personally don't feel that equal length runners is going to be a selling point other then to people who only know about NA cars. Equal length runners is to promote scavenging in the intake stroke of the motor. However you must realize that after the turbo spools....even before it spools actually air is being PUSHED not pulled into the head. I think a manifold which simiply uses a collector to direct the air in the correct direction will be as good if not verifiably better then this design OR 90% of the cast tubular manifolds. APR's manifold actually does a good job of directing the exhaust gas flow. You'll soon see another option VERY VERY soon of another stock and T3 flanged tubular manifold which will be built by a VERY respectable company.


_Modified by Bug_Power at 10:47 PM 10-14-2003_


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Driverwanted)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Driverwanted* »_Many a great scientist (or engineer) have been proven wrong, however , we should really wait to see how the product does, Ma$e , thanks for the input , however if the product is putting out 300HP to the wheel , i don't think the flow of the manifold is that big an issue ? we should really wait to see the longevity of the product in actual owner experience before we re-invent the wheel. it's too bad your company doesn't make manifolds for VW's from what you say , you could design a really good one.
also , it may just be my opinion, but your method of information sharing comes off very demeaning and rude, i would suggest that this is why 90% of your posts in this thread have been met with smart a$$ remarks or silence. You might have good info to share if people wanted to listen.... work on the delivery man. and if you don't care whether people listen , why bother typing....

also thanks for sharing a few more technical specs Katie.... for those of us watching this thread , please let us know when/if you start an new one with the pricing and higher octane programs.

Finally, a decent member. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Although I can see your point where my tone of voice has a "rude" sense behind it, its because thats how i am, if u met me in person, im actually a jokester, but I get all bent out of shape when I read false info. 
And of course many engineers/scientist have been proven wrong, but if you combine hundreds of hours of research, design and implementation, there isnt much room for error. but I can show you probably a dozen dyno's of charts w/ this type of collector used on 500+ whp cars. 
If this kits' manifold is only made to make 300 whp, any log mani would do. But i've come to learn, many people who want the absolute max hp they can get, turn to an equal length manifold. We've seen whp gains as much as 40-50 whp at the same boost level with just switching out the manifold. 
Just to clarify something, I didnt design the Full-Race Manifold, Geoff Raicer did, however, ive had plenty of background not only w/ engineering classes, but other research that further my knowledge in this area. 
Again, this thread has turned into a pissing match when it shouldnt have, I was trying to make recommendations about the manifold, not say it wont work. 
Regardless, good luck with the final design process with the kit, you can take my advice, or you can ignore it, i was only trying to help w/ the design.


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## SchnellFowVay (May 20, 2001)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

I know nothing about manifolds, collectors, tig welds, or anything else.
This is a turbo KIT. It is a setup that, for wahtever reason and by whatever method, is designed to make a certain hp. Lets say it makes 290 whp. cool. who cares why? If you are looking for crazy hp numbers, aren't you going to get a maniifold custom made anyway? I agree with driverswanted - why reinvent the wheel? If the kit is reliable, and puts down advertised power, who gives a damn. It works, and that's the purpose of kit vs. going custom - it might not make optimal horsepower, but it's convenient, reliable, and well supported by the manufacturer. From my experience with Dubwerks I can assure you that all of the aforementioned goals will be exceeded.
But once again, who cares about bench flow tests? This is supposed to be an affordable turbo kit to get the 1.8t to 290+ whp. If it does that, does that well, and does that reliably, who cares?


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

I could take a Ford Pinto and make it run 10's, but why? I guess some of the members who see room for improvment are just suggesting what Dubwerks could do to improve on the design. What if by simply implementing some manifold changes they could gain 20-30hp alone. Wouldn't that be worth it. Or would you guys just be happy with what ever someone else says is right. I'd rather a kit that has similar design time and 380hp, then a kit that was put together with some obvious flaws putting down 300 for the same price....but that's just me!


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## VWRamrod (May 14, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Bug_Power)*

Ok something needs to be said here please correct me if im wrong but Bugpower you have had nothing but negative stuff to post in this tread. You are yet to say one positive thing about this kit anywhere, yet you have found plenty of room in here to promote products that you may have a hand in that are supposedly better in every way over every other option out there. If this stuff is so great why dont you sell some of it pay for some advertising space and get your own damn thread. If you have nothing positive to say shut your hole. I mean even some constructive criticism would be ok but dont say its crap when you have nothing to back it up with.

As for our friend MA$E you have not spit out one ounce of information that anyone is actually gonna take seriously. Mostly due to your attitude and business conduct. You may be able to act that way in the honda/dsm world, But if you ever plan on entering the euro scene you might want to cleanup your act wipe the drool off you chin and take a business class atleast that would be a good start. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif on your manifolds look like a decent product just work on your conduct and respect for other companies. you dont see anyone from dubwerks on here bashing other products with hopes of making theirs look better. 
ohh yeah bugpower one last thing if the dw kit was put together with obvious flaws and still makes 300hp then apr must have purposely broke that sh!t before they shipped it out to you because isnt their kit good for about 250-260??? plus the cost of your little magic box doesnt that put the cost of yours a bit higher than the kit thats making 300hp... just curious


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## Boredom (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VWRamrod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWRamrod* »_
ohh yeah bugpower one last thing if the dw kit was put together with obvious flaws and still makes 300hp then apr must have purposely broke that sh!t before they shipped it out to you because isnt their kit good for about 250-260??? plus the cost of your little magic box doesnt that put the cost of yours a bit higher than the kit thats making 300hp... just curious


The APR kit doesn't make 290-300whp because the GT28R turbo (that APR utilizes) is significantly smaller than the IHI turbo that Dubwerks is using. It's as simple as that.
Katie, that's a nice looking kit you're releasing. I can't wait to see the finished kit in action (and timeslips). http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Ma$e (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VWRamrod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWRamrod* »_
As for our friend MA$E you have not spit out one ounce of information that anyone is actually gonna take seriously. Mostly due to your attitude and business conduct. You may be able to act that way in the honda/dsm world, But if you ever plan on entering the euro scene you might want to cleanup your act wipe the drool off you chin and take a business class atleast that would be a good start. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif on your manifolds look like a decent product just work on your conduct and respect for other companies. you dont see anyone from dubwerks on here bashing other products with hopes of making theirs look better. 


I guess you didnt read my posts either, damn you people. 
low intelligence is what reflects my persistant "attitude and business conduct" as you have described. Its actually funny you mention i should take a business class, considering I have almost completed my business minor. I didnt come here to make my product look better, I dont have any "product" I gave advice, maybe i should have email them, because its obvious you little followers of these companies **** their pants when someone makes any remark thats not positive about their product. I made "constructive critism" and you cant take it, im sorry. 
And you're right, no one will probably take me seriously, because everyone listens to what someone says, Like a certain someone just told me, if someone said "you gain power buy keeping 20 lbs of ***** in your trunk" you VW owners would keep 20 lbs of cow ***** in your trunk. Anyone who has taken any type of engineering courses that deal w/ fluid mechanics, will know everything i say is the dead damn truth. 
I said it once and will say it again, I didnt come on here to bash a company, there's an obvious flaw that could be fixed, I recommend my opinion, factual basis, and thats it, im not promoting my product, trying to bash theirs, simply trying to make their product better. so if anything you should thank me, but you're damn right im gonna get offensive when stupid idiots sit here and run their mouth when they dont know what their talking about.

Mase
If you have other problems with me, take it to the IM.


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VWRamrod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWRamrod* »_
ohh yeah bugpower one last thing if the dw kit was put together with obvious flaws and still makes 300hp then apr must have purposely broke that sh!t before they shipped it out to you because isnt their kit good for about 250-260??? plus the cost of your little magic box doesnt that put the cost of yours a bit higher than the kit thats making 300hp... just curious 

The only thing I've commented on is the manifold. Other then that I think it's a really well put together kit. Unless Pasadena School District is selling turbo kits on this website I'm not going to be paying for advertising. I'm not employed for any company, and just have bit more knowledge then you.
If you'd like some page numbers as far as back up material....let's try page 177 from Maximum boost. Page 38 from the Auto Math Handbook, Automotive Supercharging and Turbocharging Systems A technical guide pg 87-92 and one last one for you TURBOCHARGERS pg 70-71. Every single one of them support what I'm saying. The Math handbook tells you how to calculate Ve which will be effected by manifold design.
I don't know does the kit I helped on cost more???? Not sure I don't think DW's have released any price. As far as what that kit was designed for, it was designed, engineered and sold as a kit that makes 300hp to the crank. With a turbo that maxes out right there. Why put a turbo that will push 400hp and tune it for 300hp. It's poor design. Use a Smaller turbo if you want 300whp you'll benefit in spool up and torque arcross the entire rpm band. 
Now if you can argue ANY point technically rather then just running your mouth feel free. I'll even provide page numbers for you so you can learn and you blab.


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## SAVWaterWagens (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (Ma$e)*

Hahaha dude. I've been on this site for over a year and a half and never said 1 bad thing about anyone. But before you go around and talkin bad about what came across as directed at all VW owners with your comment about 
"you gain power buy keeping 20 lbs of ***** in your trunk" you VW owners would keep 20 lbs of cow ***** in your trunk.
You should think about what site YOUR on http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So let's no try to be so stereotypical Ok? 
Thanks.


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (SAVWaterWagens)*

He didn't say it *I* did! And I've been here 3 years. Look around at all the people putting mods on their car that people have done independant dynos and showed NO GAINS....however if the manufacture says it give you 8hp....then it gives you 8 hp. Anyway it's not really on topic. Since this post is titled as FIRST PICS.... it's our first chance to see and offer suggestions to a new kit out there.
And my exact quote was...
If you told some Vortexers "you gain power buy keeping 20 lbs of corn in your trunk" would see some vortexers keep 20 lbs of corn in thier trunk.
It was an Analogy of how some people don't figure logic nor design into the situation, and only know what people tell them. Then they spout it off as fact before checking it.


_Modified by Bug_Power at 12:33 AM 10-15-2003_


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## Driverwanted (Nov 9, 2002)

Guys, can we drop this please....
Everyday i hope to see a little more tech data from Katie , or some flow data on the turbo, or recommendations of a good FMIC to go with this setup..... but i'm sorely disappointed , when i come in and read all this crap back and forth.
BugP, Ma$e , Ramrod - can we call a truce - i don't think any of you are trying to be jack a$$'s but i think a lot of us want this thread back..... You guys all seem like knowledgable fellows, use that knowledge for good , avoid the dark side luke ! , uhhh sorry.
anyways.... i would like to see the gains from a big FMIC with this kit. however i want the best bang for my buck - no poopy little intercooler for 1000$ will suffice, maybe a custome built one from BELL , anyone do this , and what kind of demensions did you use. Piping ?
im sure with the right FMIC that the 326CHP will turn into 330-335 - and bring us closer to the 300WHP.... i unfortunately have poopy gas here in Canada too 91 oct. I'll need a big supply of toulene if i buy this kit


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## SAVwKO (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Driverwanted)*

First: this is great, more competition and another kit to look at!
Second: Someone needs to design a twin-turbo kit really bad! One small turbo
for quick spool up and one big one for top-end. I love the idea, but I wouldn't want to make a custom one myself.


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (Driverwanted)*

THere are a couple good FMIC's out there that will support this kit. One (un-named) with 30 psi on a GT28 sustained run in 6th gear only ever got 80ºf over ambient.


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## Stewz-GTI (Feb 16, 1999)

ALL IN FAVOR OF LOCKING THIS NO LONGER INFORMATIVE THREAD SAY "I"
"I"
This is no longer of any value. It has spun off into a monster of BS.


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## Mike0105 (Dec 31, 1999)

*Re: FIRST PICTURES of Dubwerks new GIAC kit to compete with APR III (VarLordahl)*

This thread is done. 
Katie will be started a thread when final pricing and numbers are released for the Dubwerks Turbo kit. Until then you'll just have to wait and speculate to yourselves








Mike


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