# seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please



## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

I am now making this the offical abf faq post. 
links and pictures on this overlooked powerhouse would be greatly appreciated.
tall block 16v timing belt alternatives to paying $60 a belt http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1990033
EDIT another link to a related ABF post http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=365901 

_Modified by austin neuschafer at 4:03 AM 9-2-2003_

_Modified by austin neuschafer at 1:43 AM 6-20-2005_


_Modified by austin neuschafer at 12:44 AM 2-21-2006_


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

Here are a few pics of my 1995, 60000 mile ABF in my Mk3 16v 21st Anniversary Model Golf GTI:








































































Plenty of info here: http:www.ClubABF.fr.st on Steph's site.Hope this helps...


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## 87GTi16v (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Ess Three)*

where can I get the plastic spark plug wire loom piece? also will the euro motronic work with U.S. spec fuse box and motor







also is the euro 16V the same motor as the US one or is it a crossflow block with a 2.0 16V head?


[Modified by 87GTi16v, 12:40 AM 7-11-2002]


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (87GTi16v)*

i'm not sure but I think the cylinder head casting is different on the ABF....they fixed the exhaust ports or something


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## fopeano (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (87GTi16v)*

Splicing that wiring harness into one on a us anything would be a nighmare because no us car has that engine management system (which doesn't comply with US emissions). The ABF is a 2.0 16v, which is specific to the european market.
here is more:
http://www.scirocco16v.com/gallery/16v_abfengines_index1.htm


[Modified by fopeano, 11:52 PM 7-13-2002]


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## 20vTa4 (Jun 21, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (fopeano)*

I'm not 100% sure but I don't think there would be any splicing invloved, ABF's should also be CEII. Does anyone import these setups or at least the management and associated parts?


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## fopeano (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (20vTa3)*

I know you can buy a long block from Eurospec Sport. Adirondack Auto Brokers is a Eurospec distributor.


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (fopeano)*

I know these guys sell the complete engines http://www.bildon.com/ But they are for track only they should know if the ABF head will fit onto an ABA block Just a thought


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (87GTi16v)*

quote:[HR][/HR] also is the euro 16V the same motor as the US one or is it a crossflow block with a 2.0 16V head?[HR][/HR]​Different. basically ABA block, crank, and rods with everything else different.







Edit: But an PL/9A head bolts on and if you change the pistons to ABF style and the oil system parts to 9A/ABF style you can almost make your own.


[Modified by vwpat, 1:51 PM 7-16-2002]


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## fopeano (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

Here is the best ABF picture I've seen. Here's to drooling:








And here are some more educational pics:


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

You know they Sell the Seat in Mexico I wonder if you coule find an ABF Engine there and bring it up but it all depends on your emission laws I guess


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## VAGaddict (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Ess Three)*

and how much HP does that uncluttered sweetheart make? How much does it cost?


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (VAGaddict)*

does the ABF use a Motronic system?? If so and entire engine swap could be a simple plug and play into an A3's Computer as well how simular are the ABA and ABF blocks?? would an ABF head fit onto an ABA block??


[Modified by PrupleGTI, 4:00 PM 7-25-2002]


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (PrupleGTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]does the ABF use a Motronic system?? 
If so and entire engine swap could be a simple plug and play into an A3's Computer as well how simular are the ABA and ABF blocks??
would an ABF head fit onto an ABA block??
[HR][/HR]​Digi 3.X which is very similar to US A3 Motronic. Basically same block. yes. 150 HP with cat, de-cat and re-chip yields ~170. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TurboTom (Feb 5, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

You can easily make an ABF engine if you have an ABA and a 16V. All the pcs are there except the timing belt which I got from NGP Racing 410-994-0000. They are longer, wider, and the pitch is different from the 8V belts. Also we carry the fuelrails if you wish to use your stock US intake for the EFI conversion at http://www.rossmachineracing.com/16vfuelrail.html . A lot of people are doing 16V EFI conversions. I have personally built a 2.1L ABA Block 16V. It's not that bad to do.


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (TurboTom)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You can easily make an ABF engine if you have an ABA and a 16V. All the pcs are there except the timing belt which I got from NGP Racing 410-994-0000. They are longer, wider, and the pitch is different from the 8V belts. Also we carry the fuelrails if you wish to use your stock US intake for the EFI conversion at http://www.rossmachineracing.com/16vfuelrail.html . A lot of people are doing 16V EFI conversions. I have personally built a 2.1L ABA Block 16V. It's not that bad to do.[HR][/HR]​exactly what pieces are required from the 16V block. I don't have an entire block available so I'd have to scour the earth on a piece by piece basis.


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## Azulraven (Apr 29, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (liquidonline)*

Does anyone know the with of the intake manifold runners and if it will bolt directly to a 1.8 head. Also will the fuel injector rail bolt to a 1.8?


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## TurboTom (Feb 5, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (liquidonline)*

You will need:
16V intermediate shaft
16V oil pump and blockoff plate for block
16v timing gears for crank and head
16V head (of course)
valve pocket machined aba pistons
OR bore block and get new forged 16V pistons
That is all I can think of off the top of my head.


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (TurboTom)*

Thanks a lot for the list... Its more complete than what I've compiled thus far - and if I stay with the motronic engine management that's when i'd need your fuel rail correct?. I didn't know I'd have to bore out the block for ABF 16V pistons though - good thing to know as I was looking to change to forged abf pistons anyway


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## hi-speed dubbin (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (liquidonline)*

so how different is the motronic system from the digi 1 in a corrado? 
moi


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## hi-speed dubbin (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (TurboTom)*

and what do i need from the 2.0? is it just the block? (assuming i run digi one with sns tuning) this is in a 91 g-60 corrado. i already have a 2.0 16v engine. passat block scirocco head. is the passat block basically trash then? or is there anything i could do to it? i'm assuming the 2.0 block you guys are talking about is the 8v block found in the a3's right?
moi


[Modified by hi-speed dubbin, 6:51 PM 7-28-2002]


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (hi-speed dubbin)*

quote:[HR][/HR]so how different is the motronic system from the digi 1 in a corrado? 
moi[HR][/HR]​I will keep this short. motronic is by far more advanced, more reliable, more tunable. digifant is a very cheap fuel injection. look at how small the a/f sensor is. also all 4 injectors spray at once not individually in sequence like the motronic systemused in a3 cars. sure it is a more difficult system to install but the benefits are well worth the slight hassle. I am going to use the injection from a 95 2.0 xflow motor and one my 1.8 16v. I talked to one person and this does work and was alot better than cis motronic.


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## hi-speed dubbin (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

isn't the digi one more programable?







sns seems to be doing some awesome things with the digi 1. just because something is old doesn't mean it's outdated.








what would be the advantage of sequenced injectors vs all at once? is it really worth me pulling all that stuff out of my corrado?







doesn't sound like it. now if i'm wrong correct me cause i hardly know anything about this stuff







that's why i'm here.








moi


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

the g60 injection is better for a car that is running moderate to high boost though. always looking to learn more about the 16v. I can't know to much










[Modified by austin neuschafer, 6:27 AM 9-9-2002]


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## deathhare (Mar 4, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

Techtonics sell factory ABF pistons. Something like 400 or 500 a set.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (deathhare)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Techtonics sell factory ABF pistons. Something like 400 or 500 a set.[HR][/HR]​Eurospec has them for $360. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

where can I get a new abf motor for us use, or slightly used


[Modified by austin neuschafer, 7:21 PM 8-15-2002]


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## RavenGTi (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I will keep this short. motronic is by far more advanced, more reliable, *more tunable*. digifant is a very cheap fuel injection. look at *how small the a/f sensor is*. [HR][/HR]​- SNS is very active in innovating new options with digifant 1 and they are open to custom setups and reprogramming them if need be. more available than programming options for motronic.
- the digifant mentioned in this thread is digifant 1 which comes on the corrado, its not the same as that which comes on the golf/jetta. it does not have an air flow sensor, it uses a map sensor in addition to other sensors (air temp, water temp, oxy, throttle switches...) none of which restrict airflow.


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## flatfourfanatic (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (RavenGTi)*

I've just completed fitting an ABF 2.0l16v from an A3 Golf,into my 89 UK/Euro spec Passat GT (previously 115hp din? 1.8 8v PB code)
to make matters more complex,I only had the motor,no ecu or wiring harness.
So I've built a frankenstein using a 50mm manifold and throttle body wiring harness and ignition ecu,injectors,fuel lines,airbox and fuel metering head etc from an A2 Golf 1.8 16v (KR code) This all fitted to the ABF motor no problem. I've used Kent cams which were aquired used,not sure what grind they are, believe 286.
I've also fitted a K&N filter and a tubular stainless 4into2into1 header.(origin unknown)
To get this all to work in the 89 Passat I had to change the front end wiring harness,also add a fuel pump under the car from a 9A code Passat.
The gearbox I am using is from the Golf3.
Performance is good,but I still think I should be getting more.If I change up a gear at 6500rpm I'm getting as follows
1st 40mph
2nd 70mph
3rd 100mph
4th 120mph
5th 130mph.
a guy I know whos fairly clued up reckons with that gearing I should be able to pull more like 145mph top end,What do you all think?
PS I appreciate its a very heavy car,but if I can get the most out of it in the Pasta wagon next it goes into my 1975 Scirocco. yeahhhh baby!!!
Any comments would be appreciated.
Cheers Andy,Norfolk England.


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## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (flatfourfanatic)*

I'm guessing you probably lost quite a bit of your performance by switching over to the CIS system.


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## flatfourfanatic (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Supercharged VR6)*

There were two reasons for going cis,#1 no ECU/wiring harness,#2 using cis my underbonnet looks just like a stock 16v Passat,hence no insurance aggravation.
I'm led to believe that cis should be well capable of allowing the motor to release its power,As stock the ABF is 150hp,with a cat and a far more restrictive inlet manifold,and restrictive cams,I've removed the cat,used a 50mm euro manifold and throttle body,and a pair of aftermarket cams,I'd of thought I should've released a few ponies by those changes?


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## 2.0TurboA3 (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (flatfourfanatic)*

ok I am new to this 16v stuff and I would like to get the abf head to use on my turbo 2.0. someone said that doing this with the 2.0 pistons would yeild a comp. ratio of 8:1. a little lower than I wanted( but I can always up the boost). From what everyone is saying I am a little confused, 
can someone clear this up for me?
1) the stock ecu will/will not support the switch to an abf head?
2)the stock injection needs to be changed, correct?
anything I am missing here would be appreciated as I am looking for a winter project? sorry if I didn't understand the previos posts but there was a lot of talk about other platforms that threw me off.
thanks 
ken








p.s. does anyone have the part #'s for the abf16v pieces that are needed


[Modified by 2.0TurboA3, 12:01 PM 8-17-2002]


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (2.0TurboA3)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
1) the stock ecu will/will not support the switch to an abf head?
2)the stock injection needs to be changed, correct?[HR][/HR]​yes the ecu will support it, you are looking at about a 8-8.2 comp ratio from what I am told, you should be able to get a thinner head gasket to slightly increse this ratio. you may need to grind out valve clearance slots in your pistons. use a us 16v head, abf parts would be next to impossible to find. if you use a 16v dist you will need to change the slotted wheel inside of it. you will need a fuel rail and some form of pressure regulator. and acustom timong belt, kent sells them


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## David L (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

I have some ABF stuffs for sale, how about upper and lower intake, fuelrail, fpr, injectors, isv and some small stuffs.
_________________________________________
Edit: Everything exept one TB is sold. So stop e-mailing me!










_Modified by David L at 3:53 PM 1-1-2004_


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (David L)*

ok, so maybe you hate americans and you don't wanna ship there...








How about Canada?


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## David L (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (liquidonline)*

Last time I´ve checked how much a gearbox would cost to the Us the price was around $400. And i can´t think that this stuff will be so much cheaper. =(


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## 88Jetta (Feb 18, 1999)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (PrupleGTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You know they Sell the Seat in Mexico I wonder if you coule find an ABF Engine there and bring it up but it all depends on your emission laws I guess [HR][/HR]​That isn't the only thing mexico has


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## Frenchman (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (88Jetta)*

Visit my special forum about ABF cars:
http://www.ClubABF.fr.st
You would find the answers you need


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## igneousGOlF (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Frenchman)*

not a lot of info for us americans. Someone has to figure out how we can either to a fairly cheap swap with an abf from a 2.0, or use abf parts on our 2.0s if possible. SOMEONE!!!


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## we be dubbin (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (igneousGOlF)*

a little bump. still looking for more info on this swap. my ABA is beggin for this.


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## VEEDUBALLSTARS (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (we be dubbin)*

yeah, more abf info!!! i need a head help a brotha out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VEEDUBALLSTARS (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (VEEDUBALLSTARS)*

come on ppl are making other post on this, any homework thats done or learned post it here. these motors are bad ass. and i`m still tryin to find a head. x-mas is coming and i need to buy myself something really cool to put under my tree


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (David L)*

digifant-1 is akin to SDS, albeit more advanced mapping, and programming is available, and well, we do it for cheap. 
Why dont you just get a scirocco intake, 16V head and stuff it on an aba block, you won't have to import squat, and the ross fuel rail fits perfectly albeit expensive.
Digifant-1 is speed density, thus is better than any motronic except 7+ with map sensors enabled. Sequential fire is one of those things that increase emissions and slight efficiency while adding a ton of extra code and programming to accomplish the task. There's a good article on sdsefi.com explaining Sequential injection over batch file. 
Remember since digifant-1, the CARB has ruled the scene, imposing all sorts of crazy emissions into the ecu's. 90% of the most ecu is diangostic and emissions related. If you stripped out the bare 10% your car would run, and run well.
Now on an n/a application a MAF of course is more flexible, but on a boosted application, you cannot get better than a speed density system. Well you can, by having both a MAF and speed density at the same time. 
Given the reliability of VW maf's (see the 1.8T forum for example), i wouldn't put all my money on their great technology.
Digifant-3 is vw's latest and greatest, it incorporates a 1bar (no boost) map sensor. In theory, one could reprogram digifant-3 to use a corrado 2bar or gm 3bar map sensor and make it boost sensitive. 
I'd strongly suggest talking to chuck b (psi) before going to taco bell to get one of these. You can pretty much brew your own for less $$ than having to import one, unless you're going for sheer factory originality.
Last time i checked the Digifant-3 ABF also uses non-standard bosch sized injectors, and no the fuel rail will not fit an older intake manifold design. I spent a good bit of research to see if it was viable to import the necessary parts from our (sns) distributors in france,england;holland but honestly, it looks like it would be cheaper to get a ross fuel rail and roll your own 2.0 16V and manage it however you like.
talk to chuck b (psi) before you go on a long venture, he may have a few home-brew ABF-like motors for far less $$ than you are going to spend importing one.
Remember that titty twisters bar scene in "dusk till dawn". hehe would be fun to go to tiajuana.


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## 88Jetta (Feb 18, 1999)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (mrkrad)*

here's my question / delima
take a stock 9a 2.0 16v, I'll use euro corrado specs of 136hp
to update it and make it closer to ABF specs, add a chip, and ABF cams, and a better exhaust manifold and intake manifold after all this, you're still looking at ~155hp at most (similar setup
now take a stock ABF that is putting out 150hp from the factory, add a chip and it's putting out 170hp
so you have two engines with the major differences being the 16mm difference in rod and block height, and the management system. There is a difference of 15 to 20 hp between these two setups. Will making a "frankenstien" motor using an ABA with custom pistons, a mildly ported head (to fix flaws), ABF sytyle cams, header or race DP, and your VW managment system of choice be comprable to a chipped ABF?
I'm just wondering if VW updated the head soo much that a P&P can't fix an old 9a/PL head? And if there is great enough of a difference, can the ABF head be used on a 9a/PL block?


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## grilledpickle (Jan 12, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (mrkrad)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
You can pretty much brew your own for less $$ than having to import one, unless you're going for sheer factory originality.
[HR][/HR]​That is the point, at least for me


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (grilledpickle)*

Our interest in the ABF was for use with a t3/t4 and more like 250whp-300whp. It would seem sily to go to that expense to only make 170hp now wouldn't it


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## PAGTI91 (Jul 3, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (mrkrad)*

you have to sacrafice a 9A block to make it happen and I say thats totally not worth it. remember also 16v blocks have oil squirters, the newer (96 and up) ABA's dont! A 9A will put out 250 - 300whp on good boost/timing...if your an "A3" guy that needs more speed and are unable to get a VR6, then get a turbo, or SC, but the ABF is a total waste of time IMHO


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (88Jetta)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
to update it and make it closer to ABF specs, add a chip, and ABF cams, and a better exhaust manifold and intake manifold after all this, you're still looking at ~155hp at most [HR][/HR]​The ABF cams are very mild (milder than KR cams) and after a chip and de-cat are the first things to get changed. The AAL (ZA spec 9A) made ~150 with 50mm intake, KR cams, no cat and CIS.


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## dredward (Nov 11, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

I've tried to buy parts from euro spec in the past and they told me on phoine that they only seel to shops and parts stores. I don't think they sel to general public. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (dredward)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I've tried to buy parts from euro spec in the past and they told me on phoine that they only seel to shops and parts stores. I don't think they sel to general public. Correct me if I'm wrong.[HR][/HR]​That is correct, they sell through distributors.


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I've tried to buy parts from euro spec in the past and they told me on phoine that they only seel to shops and parts stores. I don't think they sel to general public. Correct me if I'm wrong.That is correct, they sell through distributors.[HR][/HR]​why don't you contact a distributor then??


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## deliriousGTI (Sep 19, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

austin neuschafer: is there any way we could come up with a definitive list of parts required to put together a North American hybrid version on the ABF?
also, seeing as how the compression would be low.. 8.5, 9.5.. this engine would be great for Turbo, but what about for those who can't afford to go Turbo just yet? can it be a standalone motor for the streets with good performance numbers at such a low compression?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (deliriousGTI)*

ABF or similar pistons for N/A.
9A intermediate shaft, pulleys, etc.
9A oil pump and drive gear
9A dizzy "cap"
of course 16V head, IM, EM, VC, etc.


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## turbo2-0 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (PAGTI91)*

quote:[HR][/HR]you have to sacrafice a 9A block to make it happen and I say thats totally not worth it. remember also 16v blocks have oil squirters, the newer (96 and up) ABA's dont! A 9A will put out 250 - 300whp on good boost/timing...if your an "A3" guy that needs more speed and are unable to get a VR6, then get a turbo, or SC, but the ABF is a total waste of time IMHO







[HR][/HR]​Some of the early ABA blocks have oil squirters (94,95). Mine does, ABF is not a total waste of time. It is somting challenging and different.


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## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (turbo2-0)*

i agree ...
thats why i want to build one ..
so ..
all i have to do is bore the ABA block so that the 16V pistons will fit








and what happens if i use the 16V rods ??? 
will i get a higher compresion ratio ??
cuz im lookin to builf the ultimate NA 4-banger


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (David L)*

Here she is, car's been sitting since the summer, but i'm starting to work on it again....








another pic...








Sorry for the half naked motor, this motor was running on cis-e jetronic with an AIC to supply more fuel under boost, the fuel injection system was taken out to install a holley commander 950 for more boost, bigger turbo and to make a much better street fighter/asswhoopin' machine.
Keep in mind that when building an ABA 16v you'll want the 2.0 16v (9A) intermediate shaft/oil pump/oil pump drive gear and distributor block off plate, since they're different from the PL (1.8 16v). The PL oil pump has the smaller gears, and its block off plate is also smaller and will not work in the ABA block.
Another thing to consider is Eurosport's Kent Cams' ABF performance timing belt, they sell them for $50 bucks, whereas EIPricks sells it for 130+.
Forgot to add... There's no point in going with an ABA16v unless you want to brag about it, performance gains are not that great and i'd go as far as saying that the ABF makes more power due to it's software/lack of restrictive cis system and better cams.
Flame suit on.....


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## hi-speed dubbin (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (killa)*

add digi 1 injection and a turbo
















moi


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## 20vTa4 (Jun 21, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (killa)*

That engine bay is sooooooooo dirty


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (PAGTI91)*

Anyone with a Mk3 2.0 would be more than willing to sacrifice a 9a block in order to get a 16v in the engine bay. However, would it be possible to swap in a complete 9A motor and just run ABA ECU and other components? Otherwise, I'm ready to begin my search for the needed parts to create an ABA-16v. Oh, what are the possibilities of importing a complete ABF from Japan? I know the Honda guys get supa-sweet B16's and B18's all the time. Did Japan ever get the ABF? And since people are able to get an ABA-16v running using ABA engine managment, why not put the ABA electronics on your Japanese ABF? It's late and I'm tired, so please forgive any non-sense/babbling in the post.


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Clean97GTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]. However, would it be possible to swap in a complete 9A motor and just run ABA ECU and other components? [HR][/HR]​The ABA uses a crank trigger gear, the 9A doesnt, you'd have to put a whole in your 9A block and run an ABA crank to run ABA motronic FI, otherwise just run an external crank trigger.


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (20vTa3)*

quote:[HR][/HR]That engine bay is sooooooooo dirty







[HR][/HR]​Hehe, true, but i've cleaned it up a bit since, Dave actually offered to powerwash the whole engine bay


----------



## jerzeeTurbo (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (TurboTom)*

quote:[HR][/HR]OR bore block and get new forged 16V pistons
[HR][/HR]​Why would you need to bore the block if the bore and stroke of the ABA and ABF engines are the same?
So I don't look like I'm talking outta my ass, here are my sources:
http://scirocco.psycode.com/aba/main.html
http://www.gti16v.org/tspecs96.htm
Both show a Bore x Stroke of 82.5mm x 92.8mm.
Also, what would the CR be with a 9A or KR/PL head on an ABA with ABF pistons?
Thanks.


[Modified by jerzeeTurbo, 6:16 PM 12-1-2002]


----------



## jerzeeTurbo (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (jerzeeTurbo)*

TTT!


[Modified by jerzeeTurbo, 9:49 AM 12-2-2002]


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (jerzeeTurbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Why would you need to bore the block if the bore and stroke of the ABA and ABF engines are the same?
Also, what would the CR be with a 9A or KR/PL head on an ABA with ABF pistons?[HR][/HR]​Yo do not need to if bores are good. Same 10.5:1 because PL, 9A, KR, ABF heads all have ~45cc.


----------



## jerzeeTurbo (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

Ok good. I'm not crazy then.








If using ABF pistons, you wouldn't need to cut valve reliefs in then correct?
Why would using ABA pistons yield a 8.2:1 CR? Also, why are valve reliefs necessary only when using the ABA pistons?
Thanks!


[Modified by jerzeeTurbo, 9:54 AM 12-2-2002]


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (jerzeeTurbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Why would using ABA pistons yield a 8.2:1 CR? Also, why are valve reliefs necessary only when using the ABA pistons?[HR][/HR]​Because they are dished and the 16V comb.chambers are 50% larger. Because the intake valves are angled on a 16V, 16V pistons have valve reliefs.


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (jerzeeTurbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Why would using ABA pistons yield a 8.2:1 CR? 
[HR][/HR]​More like 8:1 C/R


----------



## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (killa)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Why would using ABA pistons yield a 8.2:1 CR? [HR][/HR]​quote:[HR][/HR]More like 8:1 C/R[HR][/HR]​and if u cut valve reliefs in the pistons you will be looking at a comp ratio of less than the afore mentioned 8.1:1 comp ratio some people have done this swap and cut reliefs in the pistons, but I wouldn't see it being very easy to get each individual piston cut out volumetrically equal. 
thought this was something that you should know before you start the swap


----------



## flatfourfanatic (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

So if you go back somewhere near the start of this post,(I can't believe its 4 months ago LOL)you'll see that I told you about an ABF motor I fitted into my B3 Passat,does anyone want to buy this motor? I have the original ABF inlet manifold (both parts) and fuel rail,FPR and injectors. Engine is fitted with a pair of Kent cams (286?),also a tubular manifold and downpipe,WITH provision for an O2 sensor. anyone interested? 
Obviously shipping to the states (or anywhere else) would be a PITA but I'm reasonably willing.
Only reason its now up for grabs is that the car is no longer in use.Worth more in parts than whole.


----------



## jerzeeTurbo (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Because they are dished and the 16V comb.chambers are 50% larger. Because the intake valves are angled on a 16V, 16V pistons have valve reliefs.[HR][/HR]​Ok. So this setup with the ABF pistons will yield a 10.5:1 CR. I'd like to shoot for something higher as this engine will be for track only. Could I use a diesel crank to raise both the displacement and the CR?


----------



## Scirocco G60T (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (jerzeeTurbo)*

i asked the same thing bu no one replied


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (jerzeeTurbo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Because they are dished and the 16V comb.chambers are 50% larger. Because the intake valves are angled on a 16V, 16V pistons have valve reliefs.
Ok. So this setup with the ABF pistons will yield a 10.5:1 CR. I'd like to shoot for something higher as this engine will be for track only. Could I use a diesel crank to raise both the displacement and the CR?[HR][/HR]​yes, TDi crank increases comp ~1 point but clearances will need to be checked.


----------



## tram-man (Dec 8, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

So what's the score on the ABF cams? Are they PL or KR spec or something else? Are they interchangeable with the earlier PL/9A cams?
By the way hello Andy. My father (Pete, Norwich) still has that van 5-speed box if you want to make him an offer. ...
Stuart


----------



## flatfourfanatic (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (tram-man)*

Hello Stuart,how you doing,as for your Q,I'm not sure what spec ABF cams are,but I'm told that they are different to KR,it seems the done thing to release a couple more ponies is to change ABF cams with KR.not sure whether this is applicable with the stock ABF efi or not,don't see any reason why not as the ABF system is adaptive anyway,so i'm told.
as for mine,I'm running a pair of Kent cams anyhow.Later A.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (flatfourfanatic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I'm not sure what spec ABF cams are,but I'm told that they are different to KR,it seems the done thing to release a couple more ponies is to change ABF cams with KR.not sure whether this is applicable with the stock ABF efi or not,don't see any reason why not as the ABF system is adaptive anyway,so i'm told.
as for mine,I'm running a pair of Kent cams anyhow.Later A.[HR][/HR]​True, the ABF cams are very mild and gain power from using KR cams even with stock EFI.


----------



## tram-man (Dec 8, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

OK that's interesting. But who has got figures? I would love to see a valve plot of the PL(in)/PL(ex)/ABF(in)/ABF(ex)/KR? Any body got one? I can plot a PL(ex) and PL (in) but I've just fitted the KR inlet to my head so that's not available.
How does the ABF rod angle ratio compare to the KR/PL 1800 engines'? This might tell us a bit about the valve timing and suitability to use a KR inlet cam.
Stuart


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (tram-man)*

TT, porttuning and ClubABF have the cam lift/timing. The ABF has 159 rods, 92.8 stroke(1.71), PL/KR have 144/86.4(1.67)


----------



## tram-man (Dec 8, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

quote:[HR][/HR]TT, porttuning and ClubABF have the cam lift/timing. The ABF has 159 rods, 92.8 stroke(1.71), PL/KR have 144/86.4(1.67)[HR][/HR]​Any ideas why people say that this engine won't rev aswell as the 1800 then?
Can't be the bottom end


----------



## NYCMK3Jetta (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (tram-man)*

So the million dollar question is....
Is it possible the get from JE or Ross etc. ... ABA block pistons that already have the valve notches AND yeilding a 8.5:1 compression ratio?
What is the wait time for such a job?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (tram-man)*

quote:[HR][/HR]TT, porttuning and ClubABF have the cam lift/timing. The ABF has 159 rods, 92.8 stroke(1.71), PL/KR have 144/86.4(1.67)
Any ideas why people say that this engine won't rev aswell as the 1800 then?
Can't be the bottom end







[HR][/HR]​longer stroke. Rod to stroke ratio is good but still has longer stroke.


----------



## flatfourfanatic (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

So people say it wont rev,hmmm Mine will, I usually change up at about 6750,but I know 7k isn't a problem,just how many revs do you want?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (flatfourfanatic)*

It revs, just not as well as a 1.8 or 1.6.


----------



## tram-man (Dec 8, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (vwpat)*

quote:[HR][/HR] longer stroke. Rod to stroke ratio is good but still has longer stroke.[HR][/HR]​Ok, it' going to fell a bit harsher at revs with more vibration but if the rod ratio is so close then it will rev EXACTLY like a 1800. If it doesn't then its a head or cam problem (read: opportunity).
Maybe there's another more common 2 liter block in the states which is confusing the issue? Is that an ABA or a 9A block which you can't get in YERP? Isn't that a bubble block version of the 1800 with the same block height as the 1800. That's going to rev very differently from the 1800.
Stuart


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (tram-man)*

No, it's the ABF that doesn't rev as sweetly as a KR.
The head is better on an ABF...but the cams much milder, hence the lack of rev ability...and the flywheel is Soooooo heavy!
Sure, the ABF can bew made to rev like a KR...and with the better head and increased capacity it will make more power...but you will lose some of the ABFs creamy middrange torque...and in a Mk3 GTI which is a heavy car you end up with a car that revs higher, burns more fuel but isn't actually any faster.
Lose some weight from the Mk3 16v, lower the gearing or drive it like you stole it and this may not be an issue for you...but losing too much in the way of midrange torque IS an issue for me on my ROAD car - fully appointed and heavy Mk3 ROAD car - so I'm not really looking to give away too much in the middrange.
Cams work well...as does head work...Schrick 268s work really well on the ABF...but just resist the temptation to get into big cam numbers...you will end up with a very powerful, high revving 2.0 that has less midrange than most 1.8s...and in a Mk3 GTI that is counter -productive.
But, there are always those who will deny this, and say that it doesn't matter...fit big cams...don't care about the car's weight / gearing...big numbers are all that matters....but I drive my car everyday and on real roads when fitted to a heavy Mk3 GTI...a conservative approach to torque loss will yield a very pleasant engine, will increased revrange, more power up top, but no loss in midrange over standard...but it is so easy to spoil this on the ABF by going daft on the cams....just forget you are not hauling a stripped out Mk2 around!
This is not aimed at anyone in particular, BTW, just my views.


[Modified by Ess Three, 7:24 PM 12-29-2002]


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## flatfourfanatic (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Ess Three)*

Ahh,different cams,Yes
and drive it like you stole it,Yes (isn't that howyou're supposed to drive?)
2 Reasons why my ABF in a Passat Wagon,is still a lot of fun, and revs.


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## wintrode (Aug 2, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (flatfourfanatic)*

Well if tourque is your goal, is it possible to stroke the ABA/ABF using other standard VW crank and rods, etc? While maintaining a 10.5 or 11:1 comp ratio? 
Additionally, if it is possible why not over-bore one or two sizes and go for monster displacement. 
What would be the max displacement you could achieve using a standard(by this I mean a crank from another existing vw vehicle) vw crank and one or two size over-bore?


[Modified by wintrode, 10:45 AM 12-31-2002]


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (wintrode)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well if tourque is your goal, is it possible to stroke the ABA/ABF using other standard VW crank and rods, etc? While maintaining a 10.5 or 11:1 comp ratio? 
Additionally, if it is possible why not over-bore one or two sizes and go for monster displacement. 
What would be the max displacement you could achieve using a standard(by this I mean a crank from another existing vw vehicle) vw crank and one or two size over-bore?
[HR][/HR]​In my case...torque is not my goal...if it were I'd drop in a chipped 1.8T.
Minimising torque loss is my goal whilst adding top end...not exactly easy...but not that difficult either. I'm happy with the bottom end...since it's fine I'm not going to mess with it...but I don't want to add the wrong cams and turn a fairly torquey and creamy torque delivery engine into a all revs and no torque 16v in my Mk3...as it is a heavy car.
It'd trying to find the balance that suits your individual circumstances...I want 180BHP+ but with at least standard - if not a bit more - midrange torque...for my Mk3 16v.
Not everyone wants what I want.


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## flatfourfanatic (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Ess Three)*

Ess three,top signature matey,mind if I borrow it for another forum?


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (flatfourfanatic)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Ess three,top signature matey,mind if I borrow it for another forum?







[HR][/HR]​You carry on...
If I happen to see you on said other forum I'll just have to give you a good slagging!


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## derrgti (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

Is it possible to use an ABA block, use 9a 16v pistons and 1.8 16v head and run it on 2.0 crossflow motronic engine mgmnt. Me and a buddy were thinking of trying this setup, we figure you would have to use a passat 16v throttle body. 
The ABA block for the crank sensor and 9a 16v pistons should make the clearences work properly... the Bently manual shows that bore and stroke are identical for the 2.0 ABA and 2.0 9a.
has anyone tried this?


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (derrgti)*

the abf is a "tall" block just like the aba with the longer rods, u can buy ABF pistons in the US,but can't remember the places off hand. u can use a US distributor, but then you have to change the inside slotted wheel. you will also need a 16v fuel rail. you will also need a TPS. the bore and stroke are the same among the engines, but the 9a uses 144mm rods, the abf and aba use 159mm length rods. so. there is at least one person on here who has made a aba 16v, IIRC it was KILLA.


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

Here you go guys,stock ABA block,pistons,intermediate shaft,stock 9A 16V head.Modified ATP piping,1.8T timing belt,modified 16V IM shaft pulley to fit ABA IM shaft,adapter plate for throttle body.Runs like stock with a PSC-001,30 pound injectors and 16 pounds boost.This is an old thread,damn










_Modified by Bad Habit at 4:09 PM 9-3-2003_


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## turbo2-0 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Bad Habit)*

What kind of engine management do you use? How was it to fit the 9A pulley on the ABA intermidiate shaft?


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (turbo2-0)*

I punched a key-way through the 9A pulley to fit on the ABA shaft.Motronic 2.9 for control


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (austin neuschafer)*

I just went to eurospec sports' site to get the cam specs and found.....
2.0 LITER TALL 16 VALVE LONG BLOCKS $2750.00
2.0 L engines with 236mm blocks and true ABF heads. Factory rated at 150 HP. This engine was never shipped to the USA, it is the final evolution of the venerable VW/Audi 16V. Assembled from all new components and shipped with timing components installed
Eurospec is selling these on discount straight from them to you, no dealer mess. Now everyone and their mom is gonna have ABFs.
edit: they list an advertised duration of 260 and lift of 10.74mm for the ABFs.
edit 2: TT lists the stock US cams as 195*int./215*ex. @.050" and lift as .354in./.402ex. The ABFs are 214 in/ex and .423" lift in./ex. From a VERY reputable source i have been told that ABF=TT 16v set, the TT set is cheaper than the ABFs can be had for though, now that eurospec raised their price. Hope this helps.
Garth

_Modified by g60vw at 10:59 AM 12-20-2003_


_Modified by g60vw at 11:08 AM 12-20-2003_


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## Phobia (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: (g60vw)*

The one thing that you didn't mention is that you won't be able to buy direct from Eurospec. You have to have an account, and in order to get one, there is a minimum dollar amount for your first order. PM BenBuilt4U, he has an account.


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (Phobia)*

Actually the ABF is on a deal right now so anyone can buy straight from them. When I ordered my pitons and cams I ordered them through Ben http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
http://www.eurospecsport.com/special.htm
Garth


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (g60vw)*

Since I've red all reply to this topic..
on a ABA/16V all motor setup... here are some points I still ain't have found answers and I've tried search..
If I understand correctly...
- It would be better for me to go with 9a pistons or put the $$ down and go with ABF pistons...
- About clearance, how would it be it TDi 95.5mm crank with 9a pistons ? would it be possible to milled the head to raise higher the CR ? Or should I look at porttuning.com for a 2L 16V high comp piston set to fit in there ?
- And which fuel system take ? Does ABA injection compatible with 16v head ? Will an ABA motronic ecu be able to run this kind of setup ? Will it be tunable for 27x cams, full exhaust, p&p head work ???
help is really needed here


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

1.- If using the TDi crank, I would get the correct pistons. 9A or maybe ABA pistons could be machined and made to work, but they won't be as good of a solution as buying the right shiz the first time.
2.- See above, but as far as needing to raise compression, NO, w/ the longer stroke you would need to lower the compression to bring the pistons back down to match the deck.
3.- I imagine that the fuel injection could be adapted, but you would still need a fuel rail made for a 16v (the 8v or ABA ones won't work). You would need to find someone to burn you a proper chip to make it work, might be better to go Digi1 like me







. SNS aint' sceered







.
Garth


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## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (flatfourfanatic)*

**** my AGC tranny hits 60 barely on 2nd............. at 7000RPM.


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (B3sat16v)*

What do we think about the fitment of the ABF exhaust manifold onto our stock NA heads ? I'm only wondering about the port fitment, not the mating of an exhaust system.


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (g60vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g60vw* »_1.- If using the TDi crank, I would get the correct pistons. 9A or maybe ABA pistons could be machined and made to work, but they won't be as good of a solution as buying the right shiz the first time.
2.- See above, but as far as needing to raise compression, NO, w/ the longer stroke you would need to lower the compression to bring the pistons back down to match the deck.
3.- I imagine that the fuel injection could be adapted, but you would still need a fuel rail made for a 16v (the 8v or ABA ones won't work). You would need to find someone to burn you a proper chip to make it work, might be better to go Digi1 like me







. SNS aint' sceered







.
Garth

so it would be better to drop in some stock CR 16v pistons with the TDi crank ??? 
thanx
edit: if I drop in some carbs, what would be the + and - as for solving fuel problems ???


_Modified by A3dOUde at 12:16 AM 2-4-2004_


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

Not stock US 16v pitons, but pistons from Eurospec Sport that are made for the setup, i.e.- tallblock, 16v head, 95.5mm stroke, 10-1 etc.. The pistons are cheap, I paid $450 +shp. for mine.
As far as carbs go, I have never played with them so I don't know. I know people who have made good power on their racecars with them, but they almost all say not to use them on the street. I had thought about doing DCOE's, but wussed out and went for Digi1 instead. If you have carb experience, then I say go for it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
Garth


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (g60vw)*

about carbs or itb's I mentionned it only for the point that it may solve me some problems...
so you say, should put the $$ down and go straight with ABF pistons


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

ABF pistons are for a 92.8mm (2L) stroke. If you go with the TDi crank-95.5mm then you will have to get pistons that are made for it. Eurospec sport sells both the ABF pistons (82.5,83,83.5) and the stroker pistons (82.5,83). 
If you are going to stay NA, then I say get the cast pistons. If you plan to run boost, buck up for forged. That's my $.02
Garth


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (g60vw)*

ok... can someone give me their website ?
as for forged / cast... It's not in my plan, but it is possible that some n2o may be sprayed...


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (A3dOUde)*

http://www.eurospecsport.com
You will need to order your stuff through one of the Distributors, I used euro parts inc. (www.europartsinc.com).
A little n20 should be OK for cast, a lot and you should do forged. Get ARP/Raceware hardware for the bottom end though either way, cheap insurance.

Garth


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (g60vw)*

thanx... I'll go study everything and may bump this tread up if I need more help/info
thanx again








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GroundForce1GTI (Feb 11, 2004)

*Anyone wanna clear this up for me???*

Whats the difference between an ABF 2 liter 16v and a GTI regular 2.0 16valve?? 
I read in this thread earlier that with no cat and no cat and a chip and the stock US A3 FI can put out 170HP with an abf??? Is that correct??


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: Anyone wanna clear this up for me??? (GroundForce1GTI)*

US 2.o 16v (9A)- 134hp
block height 220mm
rod len. 144mm
piston pin 20mm
stroke 92.8
US 2.0 8v (ABA)- 115hp
b.h.- 236mm
r.l.- 159mm
p.p.- 21mm
stk. 92.8mm
Euro 2.0 16v ABF- 150hp
236mm
159mm
21mm
92.8mm
HP figures are VW spec, as are all engine #s. There are some differences between the heads on ABFs and ours over here, but exact flow #s seem to be unknown. ABF comes with better cams than the US motor, but mild compared to most larger aftermarket stuff. And please translate this, I can't make any sense out of it








_Quote, originally posted by *GroundForce1GTI* »_Whats the difference between an ABF 2 liter 16v and a GTI regular 2.0 16valve?? 
I read in this thread earlier that with no cat and no cat and a chip and the stock US A3 FI can put out 170HP with an abf??? Is that correct??


Garth


----------



## GroundForce1GTI (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Anyone wanna clear this up for me??? (g60vw)*

sorry, late night last night typing, i jumbled it all up. You def answered my question though. Will a 2 liter 16v head bolt right up to an ABA block?? I kinda thought the rods were too long and would hit the valves. Also, anyone ever think about A3 Motronic injection on a US 2 liter 16v???


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: Anyone wanna clear this up for me??? (GroundForce1GTI)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1234409
not exactly what you asked... but might be near the same...


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## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

I need to clear something up here:
THE ABF CAMS ARE NOT MILDER THAN THE KR ONES - ONE HAS HIGHER LIFT, THE OTHER HAS A LONGER DURATION = SAME RESULT.
So many people continue this rumour and ABF owners shell out their cash on KR cams and get no gain whatsoever.
Get your facts straight before spreading ideas that you haven't experienced first hand...


----------



## turbo kid (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*

ttt, interesting topic!


----------



## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

*Re: Anyone wanna clear this up for me??? (GroundForce1GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GroundForce1GTI* »_Whats the difference between an ABF 2 liter 16v and a GTI regular 2.0 16valve?? 
I read in this thread earlier that with no cat and no cat and a chip and the stock US A3 FI can put out 170HP with an abf??? Is that correct??
 I highly doubt that. A cat these days are not that restrictive. And after market chips here dont yield that much unless its a turbo car. I heard that so many times but ive never seen a dyno to prove that. Im sure there will be a moderate gain but not 20hp


----------



## WtErKeWlEdUbbEr (Jun 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone wanna clear this up for me??? (austin neuschafer)*

sounds to me that the abf has a better head design and that is where is power comes from.
i bet with a 9a block abf head 50mm intake on mk3 fi or digi 1. hell it might run good with digi 2 with a bmw vam and a chip.oh and uprated cams of some sort. i think this would make similar power to the abf.
or run a aba block with 9a pistons 
i wouldnt mind building somthing like this. the big cost would be just the head.


----------



## Man&Golf (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: Anyone wanna clear this up for me??? (WtErKeWlEdUbbEr)*

ttt yo!








*Power of Dreams Eater*


----------



## 9216VGTi (Mar 6, 2003)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

What does the motronic 2.9 come from?


----------



## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (9216VGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *9216VGTi* »_What does the motronic 2.9 come from? 
obd1 aba and vr6(aka eng code AAA) they were both very similiar with only minor differencs between 4 cyl and 6 cyl


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*

Just for the record NGP racing has started a business called ecodeparts.com and they have quite a few of these ABF full conversions in stock. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I am going to be building a 2.2 stroker with cams and injection tricks here in the next few months so hopefully I can contribute to this thread from first-hand experience.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I am going to be building a 2.2 stroker with cams and injection tricks here in the next few months


Ok.. so lets get this party started.. what are your plans floating around in your head for specs? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NGP_Racing (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (David L)*

We have just delivered our first ABF package this weekend- we have 5 more complete, parted out ABF cars on the way... we can also fly your package in if you're in a hurry








http://www.ecodeparts.com


----------



## A1 steaksauce (Oct 19, 2003)

can a us spec ecu be connected, plug and play, to a eurospec abf motor? i'd like to see if i have to have the abf cluster, and uro wiring harness, or if i can work around it; id like to use my obdII ecu to run an oem abf with a modified chip http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JETTA2.0GT (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (austin neuschafer)*

I have measured the combustion chamber (head) of a early ABF/ACE -94 head with head code ending with F. This head had 46,5 cc. I have also a later ABF head (head code ending with D) that i will measure but i presume that it will have slightly higher cc (47-48cc) due to the fact that the exhaust valves on these head are more embedded into the head.


----------



## windsor monster (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (87GTi16v)*



87GTi16v said:


> where can I get the plastic spark plug wire loom piece?
> this is what im wondering........


----------



## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (windsor monster)*

does anyone have pics of the ports on one of these heads? I wonder if they flow better, or are a better design than use spec ones.


----------



## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (windsor monster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windsor monster* »_


87GTi16v said:


> where can I get the plastic spark plug wire loom piece?
> this is what im wondering........






87GTi16v said:


> I have one or two of them...
> But they are in the UK...like me.


----------



## JETTA2.0GT (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Ess Three)*

here is the correct measurement from a couple of heads:
KR: 44,5 cc (4-electrode sparkplug)
Early ABF/ACE: 45,5 cc (3 electrode spark plug)
Later ABF: 45,7 cc (4 electrode spark plug)
On the later ABF the exhaust valves sit 0,2-0,3 mm lower into the head.


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (austin neuschafer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *austin neuschafer* »_what is the ratios of the tranny's in these cars??? or codes if no one has the ratio's in front of them??? from what I have heard these car had 5 lug setups too, correct????

Yep, they ran 5x100mm ala VR6 - though, the late model 16v cars stayed at 280mm brakes rather than upping to 288 as per the VR6.
The transmission specced with the ABF bears the code "CDA" and uses some 02J parts, due to being the last 02A series made and sold until 1999 in some SEATs.
The ratios are:
1st: 3.300
2nd: 1.944
3rd: 1.308
4th: 1.029
5th: 0.837
Final drive ratio: 3.684
Flywheel: 228mm; exact standard weight: 21.884lbs
Clutch actuation was hydraulic in the majority of ABF-powered cars, yet cable in many SEATs. Tranny code was the same irrespective of the clutch system.
If anyone is interested, I have the in gear speed/RPM calculations spreadsheet... just IM your email addy if you want a copy.


----------



## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

this is the exact same gearing as a us rado vr6 which all came with a cdm trans


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

That's interesting... but, IIRC the VR6s run a 3.3 final drive?? At least, I know the Golf 2.8 version did, but can't be sure about the Rado...
The ratios remained the same as far as I am aware. I always found this interesting as the Mk3 Golf 16v used a larger tyre diameter than the Seat Cupra 16v and was also a significantly heavier car... yet, they ran the same gearbox and final drive.
The gearing is *FAR* too long for the 1080kg Seat and is laughable in the 1270kg Golf. Both cars are very lethargic lower in the revs, made much worse by the flywheel.
People very often criticise the ABF cars and believe they lack torque - this is complete bullsh*t; lob some weight off the flywheel and/or fit a 3.94 ring and pinion and the Cupra will pulverise a Mk3 VR6.


_Modified by H8SV8S at 6:49 AM 2-21-2006_


----------



## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*

this is regarding the a3, and b3 chassis 
CCM====3.300=1.944=1.308=1.034=0.838=3.389==VR6 Passat, Jetta, Golf
CDM====3.300=1.944=1.308=1.034=0.838=3.647==Corrado VR6
note this is U.S. spec cars 
so u feel the gearing is way top tall in your words correct
BTW what is the tire size on those cars, as that is a very importatnat variable when making driveline ratio calculations


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: (austin neuschafer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *austin neuschafer* »_this is regarding the a3, and b3 chassis 
CCM====3.300=1.944=1.308=1.034=0.838=3.389==VR6 Passat, Jetta, Golf
CDM====3.300=1.944=1.308=1.034=0.838=3.647==Corrado VR6
note this is U.S. spec cars 
so u feel the gearing is way top tall in your words correct
BTW what is the tire size on those cars, as that is a very importatnat variable when making driveline ratio calculations

Good info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
So, ultimately the 'Rado VR6 and ABF cars have similar effective gearing.
The Golf VR6 was obviously pegged back with a longer FD as it was intended for motorway use and not sports performance, unlike the Rado.
--> The tyre diameter on the SEAT Cupra is 195/45/16, wheel size 6.5x16"
--> On the Golf, it is a 6.53x15" wheel with a 205/50/15 tyre
So the Seat has a 582mm diameter; 1828mm circumference
The Golf has a 586mm diameter; 1841mm circumference - 0.7% larger.
Yep, the gearing is FAR, FAR too long, as in critically bad. The difference after dropping 10lb from the flywheel and fixing the final drive up is INCREDIBLE


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

Also, while the 0.7% effective gearing difference is pretty small, remember the Golf weighs 200kg [







] more than the Seat.
I remember user Ess_Three saying his wife's Seat would still smoke his Golf even when the VW had a good remap and exhaust (meaning it would have been pushing over 175hp).
If anyone is buying an ABF from NGP, do something about the flywheel (at least) before you drop in the engine.


----------



## klutch belt (Apr 8, 2005)

crank composition????? forgoed or cast. steel or iron???? were they all the same?????


----------



## JETTA2.0GT (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (klutch belt)*

forged crank on all ABF. Can be some cast on new replacement blocks.


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*

We are running an o2o tranny with 4.24 R&P, peloquin, and clutchnet clutch....MUCH lighter than the stuff that came bolted to the motor in the mk3 cars.


----------



## klutch belt (Apr 8, 2005)

was it forged iron or steel???


----------



## jimmy8v (Dec 19, 2004)

*Re: (klutch belt)*

Theyre the same as all vw 'forged' cranks, theyre actually just case hardened. They are not true 'forged cranks' like you can buy in the aftermarket scene for mega money. But they are plenty good enough for most engines and clearly a huge improvement over conventional cranks. Bertils told me this during a lengthly phone call(cost me about 40 quid







).


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: (QuantumRallySport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuantumRallySport* »_We are running an o2o tranny with 4.24 R&P, peloquin, and clutchnet clutch....MUCH lighter than the stuff that came bolted to the motor in the mk3 cars.

Nice, just hope the tranny is beefed up. A good ABF will take your 020 to the cleaners


----------



## klutch belt (Apr 8, 2005)

heck, even anicely worked 9A (u s spec cis-m injected 2.0 16v) can crumble up a 020


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *H8SV8S* »_
Nice, just hope the tranny is beefed up. A good ABF will take your 020 to the cleaners









What parts are known to fail?
Diff-to-Ring gear bolts and exploding stock diffs are all I have ever heard of being problematic.
Plenty of people use the o2o box on turbo applications without problems.


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: (QuantumRallySport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuantumRallySport* »_
What parts are known to fail?
Diff-to-Ring gear bolts and exploding stock diffs are all I have ever heard of being problematic.
Plenty of people use the o2o box on turbo applications without problems.

2nd and 3rd gear are known weak points... remember, the ABF came with an 02A as standard and there was a reason for it


----------



## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (H8SV8S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *H8SV8S* »_
Yep, they ran 5x100mm ala VR6 - though, the late model 16v cars stayed at 280mm brakes rather than upping to 288 as per the VR6.


No they didn't...late 16v cars were 288mm...at least the Anniversary cars were...mine was.

_Quote »_
The transmission specced with the ABF bears the code "CDA" and uses some 02J parts, due to being the last 02A series made and sold until 1999 in some SEATs.


Yeah...I got caught with this...my 16v O2A 'box has an O2J type diff and drive flanges. At the time, this meant that my recently bought Quaife O2A diff wouldn't work...until I got hold of some O2A drive flanges...as my standard ones were actually O2J!
Odd...


----------



## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *H8SV8S* »_Also, while the 0.7% effective gearing difference is pretty small, remember the Golf weighs 200kg [







] more than the Seat.


The tyre gearing makes a reasonable difference to how a 16v goes...with 17" wheels on, it's noticably slower off the mark.
With the 215/40/16 Anniversary wheels & tyres on, it's the best of all Mk3s as this was the lowest gearing ever fitted to a Mk3 GTI of any type...but you can't make up for the 200Kgs the SEAT Ibiza has on you to start with...


_Quote »_
I remember user Ess_Three saying his wife's Seat would still smoke his Golf even when the VW had a good remap and exhaust (meaning it would have been pushing over 175hp).


Very true...
Standard Ibiza Cupra Sport 16v vs 16v Anniversary GTI with bespoke re-map and exhaust.
The Ibiza would pull on it pretty much everywhere up to approx 100MPH...then the GTI would start to claw it back.


_Quote »_
If anyone is buying an ABF from NGP, do something about the flywheel (at least) before you drop in the engine. 

Damn right!
That makes a huge difference.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (H8SV8S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *H8SV8S* »_Flywheel: 228mm; exact standard weight: 21.884lbs

Damn, almost 22lbs!
Was that weight with or without ring gear? Thanks.


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
Damn, almost 22lbs!
Was that weight with or without ring gear? Thanks.

That's just the complete one-piece flywheel, no bolts. It's VERY heavy


----------



## greekin2 (Sep 26, 2006)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (H8SV8S)*

guy's check out myspace link.... i have actual abf parts from England... hope this helps someone.. still spec'n out to build my abf motor....


----------



## Sandwar (Feb 21, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (greekin2)*

If I installed a stock ABF, could I put 15-20 psi of Fi on it? what needs to be done to get 300+ whp out of her.


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Sandwar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sandwar* »_If I installed a stock ABF, could I put 15-20 psi of Fi on it? what needs to be done to get 300+ whp out of her.

That question is really no different to all the other 16vT threads. The only real strength advantage of the ABF is that it will most likely have lower mileage. The bottom end really isn't much beefier than a 9a


----------



## Sandwar (Feb 21, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (H8SV8S)*

don't tell me that, if thats the case, Il just pick up a 9a for a cheaper price.


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Sandwar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sandwar* »_ if thats the case, Il just pick up a 9a for a cheaper price. 

If you're going to rebuild it, you might aswell do it that way


----------



## Sandwar (Feb 21, 2001)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (H8SV8S)*

can the stock abf, no mods other than a turbo slapped on it and some Megasquirt handle 280-300 whp?
if I can use it in stock form, it will save me a ton of money. The new pistons I wanted for the ABF are going to cost me a small fortune.


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: seeking info on a3 16v abf engine pics or links please (Sandwar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sandwar* »_can the stock abf, no mods other than a turbo slapped on it and some Megasquirt handle 280-300 whp?
if I can use it in stock form, it will save me a ton of money. The new pistons I wanted for the ABF are going to cost me a small fortune.

I'm intending to run about 300hp at the crank through mine with a spacer plate (9.5:1) and I really think that will be pushing it


----------



## terrible-one (Jul 20, 2005)

love the info in this thread, bump.
1.one question that i thought of when someone said something about running the aba block on the 9a head and used the 9a intermediate shaft pully on the aba shaft, was that with keeping the aba oil pump or would the 16v oil pump be needed
just my thoughts but i thought the 16v head would need a larger volume of oil seeing that it has more moving parts.
2.also someone said something about using that tdi crank in that same setup but wouldn't that case a problem for the crank rotation sensor on the aba block? or does that sensor have any direct conection to the aba crank it self?
i know this may have been coverd but i read the whole 5 pages and was still confused buy these two things.
thanks alot, for any help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## terrible-one (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (terrible-one)*

bump still no answer


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (terrible-one)*

1.You need a 16v oil pump because of the intermediate shaft gearing. You also need a block off from a 16v and the gear that drives the oil pump (you will be using the 16v dist)

2. To answer this question.......it depends on what system you are running. If you are running dig 1 or 2 the sensor will do nothing for you. Just cut the wire and leave it be.


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

I believe that someone mislabeled their auction on ebay.co.uk - what is likely a ABF with two days to go for 50ukp.
I used to live about 25 miles from the guy, and my grandparents live about an away. I can just see the conversation "Hey Grandpa, could you possibly go pick up a little something i won on ebay and drop it off at the post office please?"








Not my auction, and i don't know the seller.. just thought it was interesting:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SEAT-VW-...wItem


----------



## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

Hmm, that looks like a Seat Ibiza ADL engine, which is effectively a Euro KR 1.8 16v with ABF injection and manifolds


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *H8SV8S* »_Hmm, that looks like a Seat Ibiza ADL engine, which is effectively a Euro KR 1.8 16v with ABF injection and manifolds









Oops, my bad. The manifold threw me off.. Good to knew http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## klutch belt (Apr 8, 2005)

hmmm can anyone source me a ABF intake and possible throttle body, or would my vr6 one bolt up


----------



## matsad (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (austin neuschafer)*

Pretty sure they're sequential. They've got five wires going into the loom for them, one power and three signals, I'd presume. I bought a setup from europe, so I haven't run it yet, but that's what makes sense to me. - matt


----------



## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

FPR rate was the same as a aba


----------



## zero thrust angle (May 10, 2005)

And I'd say there would be one ground, and 4 signals...
3.0 bar FPR...


----------



## matsad (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (zero thrust angle)*

Yup, I can't count. Don't know the flow rates, but they're on here somewhere. Check the archives, that injector configuration is kinda rare, which is why I've heard people discouraged from using them in hotrodded motors.


----------



## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (matsad)*

if someone gives me a VIN number for a Mk4 GTI 16v, i am pretty sure i can check in elsaweb (vw's repair and warranty information center).
I will be able to see the wiring diagram and have the equivalent of a bentley but on internet.
I can check in the repair manual for diagnostic procedures for troubleshooting injectors or anything like that and i should be able to answer THE question








I am my self waiting for my ABF intake and fuel rail and i will need to figure everything out more than 90% of people here.
I will be matching that to a Vr6 throttle body and a double exhaust cam set-up and for sure i allready run a MSnS fuel and ignition delevery system








So I'll be waiting for that VIN


----------



## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (Armagon)*

while we're waiting for that VIN look, that's an ABF intake with the fuel rail. We can notice the 5 pins connector, so i'd say: 1 ground and 4 positives but Vw is strong on grounds, expeccially on digifants systems, so i think it is more about 1 positive and 4 grounds


















_Modified by Armagon at 2:14 AM 2-9-2007_


----------



## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (Armagon)*

I checked in elsaweb by entering engine code, year model and all, and they don't show anything about european cars








i Don' know if it's gonna work with a VIN but i'll still try it if someone posts it.
piss off !


----------



## greekin2 (Sep 26, 2006)

*Re: (Armagon)*

if my sources from Europe are right, we will not be able to find any real technical information about the ABF. The Bentley manual in Europe doesn't even mention the ABF. If anything a cross reference will have to be done on parts like TN and Fuel Rail....


_Modified by greekin2 at 10:40 AM 2-9-2007_


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (Armagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Armagon* »_while we're waiting for that VIN look, that's an ABF intake with the fuel rail. We can notice the 5 pins connector, so i'd say: 1 ground and 4 positives but Vw is strong on grounds, expeccially on digifants systems, so i think it is more about 1 positive and 4 grounds










All injectors are controlled on the ground side......the comnputer cant handle controlling them on the + side.......computers would cost thousands of dollars.....

If anybody can give me part numbers on the injectors.....i can find out flow rates....
I have alot of sources for information











_Modified by Greengt1 at 8:37 AM 2-9-2007_


----------



## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

037 906 031 G
If you have the chart of flow rates like i've seen, I think you'd need the bosch number.
I would say they are 240 cc/min. at least, I made a call and this afternoon i should have a bosch number to go with that vw number.


----------



## greekin2 (Sep 26, 2006)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

there are a few of part numbers...
vw - 037-133-313AN
037-133-317M
bosch - 0-280-151-016
2435-170-013
the wires are black, clear, green, brown and white...
I'll post some clear pics on myspace later
also if anybody can, here is the part number from the ECU dated 1/14/1995
037-906-024 AE


_Modified by greekin2 at 1:18 PM 2-9-2007_


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (greekin2)*

i found a site that has the abf manual for 75 dollars shipped to us...........Thats kind of high.. but I'm thinking about getting it
http://www.originalanleitungen...f1c68
I dont know


_Modified by Greengt1 at 11:27 AM 2-9-2007_


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

i fould some more abf info from the aba16v thread

_Quote, originally posted by *ROBHARMER* »_A few ABF part Numbers 
Coolant Flanges
027 121 145 b-Side
037 121 132 j-Front
357 121 140 Plug for Front
n 902 954 01 Seal For Side
Intake Pipe
1HO 129 627 F
ISV connecting Pipe
037 133 997 
Intake Manifold 
Upper-037 133 201 BG
Lower-037 133 206 A
Gasket-037 129 717 E
Manifold Supports 
037 133 231 R
037 133 231 Q
Exsaust manifold Heat Sheild 
037 253 041 AK
Exsaust Manifold 
037 253 031 BK
Engine Wiring Harness
037 971 595 
Engine Compartment Wiring Harness 
1H1 971 072 PG
Air Box
1HO 129 607 EF
I-M shaft 
Shaft 053 115 017 C
Pulley 027 109 111 G
Coolant ose Flange>Oilcooler>Water Pump 
037 121 053 K
Water Pipe metal 
037 121 065 J
Upper Rad Hose 
1HO 121 101 E
Piston 
048 107 065 J
Intake Cam 
051 109 021 B
Ex Cam
051 109 022 B
Upper timing belt cover 
053 109 123 C
Lower Cover
053 109 119 G
Timing Belt 
B 048 109 119 G
Cover 
053 109 129 A
Throttle Bod 
037 133 061 BQ
Fuel Rail 
037 133 317 M


----------



## sidewayz_control (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (Armagon)*

I very rarely go onto Forums... not that I don't want to, just no time...
Anyways, nice to see the picture of my ABF intake made it all the way to VW Vortex








Here is a better pic of the ABF fuel rail.








Ivan


_Modified by sidewayz_control at 9:37 AM 2-17-2007_


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

could you put a higher bar fuel pressure regulator on that rail like a 3.5 bar or such


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_could you put a higher bar fuel pressure regulator on that rail like a 3.5 bar or such

I would think so.... it is a universal fpr


----------



## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_
I would think so.... it is a universal fpr
yes, the abf uses the same exact fpr as the american spec aba, the vr6 one is either .5 or 1.0 bar higher than the aba one, and it is inter changeable


----------



## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: (Armagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Armagon* »_ 
I will be matching that to a Vr6 throttle body and a double exhaust cam set-up and for sure i allready run a MSnS fuel and ignition delevery system








So I'll be waiting for that VIN









Why would you want to run a VR6 TB?
It's the same size plate as the ABF plate and too big to easily fit the ABF manifold and still get the inlet hose on.
I've got both ABF and VR6 TBs in bits...so know they are the same size plate size.


----------



## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: (Ess Three)*

Just to clear something up...ABFs do indeed fire the injectors sequentially, for emissions purposes.
I've tried MS on mine and you don't gain/lose going batch fired.
I have a spare ABF fuel rail in my garage if anyone is in need.
I think it's complete with injectors, FPR, seal etc.


----------



## dbl_yelo_rado3 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (Ess Three)*

can someone confirm the same part# on the valve cover gaskets between abf 16 and u.s. 2.0 16v someone is telling me there is something different about them ?


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## TURBOD16V (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (dbl_yelo_rado3)*

ABF = 051-198-025
9A/PL = 027-198-025
Don't hold me to this but i believe the ABF does not have the 2 blue half moon seasl like the 9A/PL. the gasket is all one piece.


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## H8SV8S (Jan 22, 2004)

The ABF does use the half moon seals aswell


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: (H8SV8S)*

It sure does...


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## dbl_yelo_rado3 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (Ess Three)*

its been sitting since i got it but a am pretty sure they are not blue on the abf i have. however they are blue on the aje
abf












_Modified by dbl_yelo_rado3 at 5:10 PM 12-3-2007_


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: (dbl_yelo_rado3)*

That's them...a sort of off-white colour.


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## dbl_yelo_rado3 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (Ess Three)*

okay so the 9a, abf and aje have the half moon so back to whats the difference then in those two part numbers ?


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: (dbl_yelo_rado3)*

The KR type cam cover has the two bolts in line with the spark plug holes sitting flush with the surface don't they?
The ABF has deeply recessed bolts...
I wonder if it's something to do with the sealing of the cam cover around the spark plug holes, where these two bolts pass through.
I really hope I can use a KR type cam cover gasket as it's half the price over here!


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## TURBOD16V (Nov 25, 2003)

Cn anyone tell me how the engine harness is layed out in the factory ABF cars.
does it run along the firewall or route around the front? just trying to verify as I seam to be coming up short on my IAT sensor wiring.


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: (TURBOD16V)*

The IAT isn't part of the engine loom, and doesn't run along with it, maybe that's why.
The engine loom runs from the fusebox, down to the g/box side as you look into the engine bay, then to the big multi-plug...as does the knock sensor wiring etc.
The IAT sensor wirig is part of the car lom that runs down the LHS of the engine bay as you look at the engine bay, and it runs along the emissions stuff, outside air temp wiring and fans wiring.


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## TURBOD16V (Nov 25, 2003)

ok but I have a ABF harness in my hand and a wiring diagram that says pin 36 on ecu plug goes to intake air temp. and when you test it there is power from pin 36 to this plug.
hmm I just gotta play around more with how i have this thing layed out. perhaps i'm routing it wrong.


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## Ess Three (Jun 27, 2001)

*Re: (TURBOD16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TURBOD16V* »_ok but I have a ABF harness in my hand and a wiring diagram that says pin 36 on ecu plug goes to intake air temp. and when you test it there is power from pin 36 to this plug.
hmm I just gotta play around more with how i have this thing layed out. perhaps i'm routing it wrong.

True...
But the IAT wiring doesn't go down the same side as the rest of the engine wiring.
There is a 2 pin conector for the IAT, a 2 pin blank (not used, that sits on the breather hose) and the plug for the fual tank evaporation solenoid thingy in the engine bay (sits on bracket on the LHS strut tower, as you look at it from the engine bay)...they all run together.
The wiring comes from the ECU, along the bulkhead and down the LHS wing as you look into the engine bay, and runs along with the outside air temp wiring and lights wiring (I think the lights wiring anyway)


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## TURBOD16V (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (Ess Three)*

Thanks,i figured out my problem. 
my harness is from a right hand drive car not left like I have. so if you flip my harness as if the fuse box was on the right side of car it would fit perfect.
anyone have a left hand drive ABF harness for pre 95 non imobilizzzed ecu?


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## TURBOD16V (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (TURBOD16V)*

ABF ECU TYPES
immobiliser numbers:
037-906-024-AE,AL,BE,BF
NON immobiliser numbers:
037-906-024-F,G,AB
I will update the list as I find out more info.

also ABF uses a hall type crank sensor. not available in US.
so get a spare!

_Modified by TURBOD16V at 1:12 PM 1-16-2008_


_Modified by TURBOD16V at 5:00 PM 1-22-2008_


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## ratdub (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: (TURBOD16V)*

anyone know the p/n for an abf or kr head?
does the p/n 051103373 ring any bells?
thanks in advance


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