# Coilover vs. Spring + Shocks



## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

As a suspension noob , I am seeking expert opinion on aftermarket coilover vs. spring + shock combo. I have a few questions that I hope this community can help clarify. 

1) I often hear about corrosion risk with coilover, why is the risk so much lower with spring + shock?

2) If one doesn't care about height and damping adjustment, does it make more sense to go with spring + shock (e.g. H&R sport springs + Bilstein B8 shocks or Koni) instead of a coilover set like Bilstein B14?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

VWNCC said:


> As a suspension noob , I am seeking expert opinion on aftermarket coilover vs. spring + shock combo. I have a few questions that I hope this community can help clarify.
> 
> 1) I often hear about corrosion risk with coilover, why is the risk so much lower with spring + shock?
> 
> ...


Re: going with #2 even if you do not care about height or damping adjustment, the key advantage (at least if you purchase from a reputable company like Bilstein) is that you would be assured that the dampers are valved to match the springs. Going with aftermarket springs and dampers purchased separately is much more of a crap shoot, where you would be unlikely to get anywhere near the OEM level of refinement. At least on the old (8P) A3 Sportback, Audi has many part numbers for both springs and dampers, and the combination of the two main suspension parts is chosen depending on premium vs. sport package vs. S3, the engine size (and weight), Quattro v. FWD, sunroof vs. none, overall vehicle weight, and destination country. (I know, because those of us who imported European S-Line springs spent forever to find the right part number.) While you may feel that Audi did not pick the best combination for you, Audi would have spent more engineering time and effort on it than most aftermarket companies, even reputable ones like Bilstein or Koni. Maybe I am getting old, or my back is getting worse from my desk job, but I feel that most aftermarket springs are not worth their installation costs, even if you give them to me for free. Too often they focus on ride height reduction to the detriment of everything else.

I saw your other thread re: the Mini Cooper. That car has a weight advantage and better weight distribution, so it is extremely unlikely you can get a spring and damper setup that has comparable handling, and is still comfortable enough for you, with just aftermarket springs and dampers purchased separately. So either OEM+ (e.g., S3 suspension parts, US or European) or good coil-overs, e.g., Bilstein, KW.

My A3 (2.0T w/ Sport Package) is my commuter, with an occasional trip on some mountain roads taken at a non-sightseeing pace. If you plan to track your car I don't know how much of the above would apply, as I have little ambition to emulate Sebastian Loeb or Ken Block.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

A3_yuppie said:


> Re: going with #2 even if you do not care about height or damping adjustment, the key advantage (at least if you purchase from a reputable company like Bilstein) is that you would be assured that the dampers are valved to match the springs. Going with aftermarket springs and dampers purchased separately is much more of a crap shoot, where you would be unlikely to get anywhere near the OEM level of refinement. At least on the old (8P) A3 Sportback, Audi has many part numbers for both springs and dampers, and the combination of the two main suspension parts is chosen depending on premium vs. sport package vs. S3, the engine size (and weight), Quattro v. FWD, sunroof vs. none, overall vehicle weight, and destination country. (I know, because those of us who imported European S-Line springs spent forever to find the right part number.) While you may feel that Audi did not pick the best combination for you, Audi would have spent more engineering time and effort on it than most aftermarket companies, even reputable ones like Bilstein or Koni. Maybe I am getting old, or my back is getting worse from my desk job, but I feel that most aftermarket springs are not worth their installation costs, even if you give them to me for free. Too often they focus on ride height reduction to the detriment of everything else.
> 
> I saw your other thread re: the Mini Cooper. That car has a weight advantage and better weight distribution, so it is extremely unlikely you can get a spring and damper setup that has comparable handling, and is still comfortable enough for you, with just aftermarket springs and dampers purchased separately. So either OEM+ (e.g., S3 suspension parts, US or European) or good coil-overs, e.g., Bilstein, KW.
> 
> My A3 (2.0T w/ Sport Package) is my commuter, with an occasional trip on some mountain roads taken at a non-sightseeing pace. If you plan to track your car I don't know how much of the above would apply, as I have little ambition to emulate Sebastian Loeb or Ken Block.


Thank you for the detailed reply. I am on the same boat, my 2.0T is my DD and I do not track my car (no plan to either). Without side-by-side comparison, I actually like the ride quality of the suspension right now (very comfortable, feel rigid, especially in city driving). That said, I just don't feel as confident in highway speed and after driving my friend's mini cooper, I feel that there is room to tighten up the suspension. However, I don't know which direction to go. I feel coilover might be overkill, but OEM+ parts aren't much cheaper than a nice set of coilover. Maybe I should just do nothing (that's what my other half wants)....


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## gaogi (Dec 17, 2010)

VWNCC said:


> As a suspension noob , I am seeking expert opinion on aftermarket coilover vs. spring + shock combo. I have a few questions that I hope this community can help clarify.
> 
> 1) I often hear about corrosion risk with coilover, why is the risk so much lower with spring + shock?


Coilovers offers heigh adjustability through threaded bodies on the shock or the spring perch. These threads are exposed to the elements and corrosion can accumulate causing difficulties in height adjustment. Spring+Shocks usually do not allow for height adjustability (although there are some products out there that do offer adjustability), so no real corrosion risk.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

VWNCC said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply. I am on the same boat, my 2.0T is my DD and I do not track my car (no plan to either). Without side-by-side comparison, I actually like the ride quality of the suspension right now (very comfortable, feel rigid, especially in city driving). That said, I just don't feel as confident in highway speed and after driving my friend's mini cooper, I feel that there is room to tighten up the suspension. However, I don't know which direction to go. I feel coilover might be overkill, but OEM+ parts aren't much cheaper than a nice set of coilover. Maybe I should just do nothing (that's what my other half wants)....


First, you have to decide whether you are alright with the current ride height of your A3. Second, what is making you feel less confident at high speeds? Depending on your answers, a set of Bilstein B8 alone may address your concerns; they should be firmer than your current dampers, but the question is, how much firmer do you want? (But if you are installing new dampers, it does not make sense not to install new springs at the same time from a financial / time spent point of view.)

Now that you have (from your other thread) test driven an S3 with the regular suspension, maybe it is time to test drive an A3 with the sport suspension.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

I have H&R sport springs and Bilstein struts on the rear...very sporty and "planted" ride.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

scope213 said:


> I have H&R sport springs and Bilstein struts on the rear...very sporty and "planted" ride.


I am considering this combo right now, is the ride harsher than stock S3 suspension without magride?


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

My S3 is stiffer and firmer for sure. Best way to describe it is...it feels very sporty, lol. I love it combined with the power of the car and the slightly improved handling performance, it's just fun has hell.  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

scope213 said:


> My S3 is stiffer and firmer for sure. Best way to describe it is...it feels very sporty, lol. I love it combined with the power of the car and the slightly improved handling performance, it's just fun has hell.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Aww man.....that means it is a no go for me.....and I read on Audizine that my other option (Bilstein B14) is also stiffer than the stock S3 non magride suspension.....no go as well.......now I am out of option....lol :banghead:


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Sorry man. Did you also look at the Bilstein B6 HD? Not sure if that one is as stiff as my Bilstein B8.

Wait B6 is if you're not going to lower your car...nvm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

scope213 said:


> Sorry man. Did you also look at the Bilstein B6 HD? Not sure if that one is as stiff as my Bilstein B8.
> 
> Wait B6 is if you're not going to lower your car...nvm
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Yea, I did look at B6...well if it is good for stock S3 height, that means I can still lower the car by 25-30mm or so.... but if it is meant for stock ride height of the standard suspension...then.....no......crap....


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## 15whiteA3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Have you thought about putting a stock s3 suspension on yours? I see a lot of guys with coils already on their s3 and they may be willing to sell. Well as long as that ride wasn't too bad for you. I have been trying to decide on what I want to do but I am going to get the bilstein pss10 kit, just deciding now if I want the electronic ones or not.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

15whiteA3 said:


> Have you thought about putting a stock s3 suspension on yours? I see a lot of guys with coils already on their s3 and they may be willing to sell. Well as long as that ride wasn't too bad for you. I have been trying to decide on what I want to do but I am going to get the bilstein pss10 kit, just deciding now if I want the electronic ones or not.


I have thought about it, but I do find that the S3 suspension a bit harsh at times, so I am looking for something in something a bit more comfortable. Also, pricing is also a factor....pricing I have seen isn't too far off from a brand new set of nice coilover, so this also makes the purchase very difficult...

Please post review of the Bilstein once you have it on...I am most interested in the B14 to be honest.......


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## ERTW (Jan 17, 2000)

VWNCC said:


> As a suspension noob , I am seeking expert opinion on aftermarket coilover vs. spring + shock combo. I have a few questions that I hope this community can help clarify.
> 
> 1) I often hear about corrosion risk with coilover, why is the risk so much lower with spring + shock?
> 
> ...


Answers below

1) Corrosion risk with the coilover is not an issue if the materials handle the elements. They may be more expensive by building from Stainless or Protective coatings but they work.

Risk is lower with spring/ shock because they use carbon steel typically for OEM and there is no adjustment to worry about with threads and the aluminum adjustment pieces used on coilovers.

2) Coilovers are damping matched for the vehicle. If you plan to keep this car for a long time and you do not like the handling of your suspension as it is new, you should then look into a good set of coilovers since your suspension will only get softer over time.


In the last three cars I have owned, I have changed the suspension from Stock.

VW GTi VR6Turbo Drivers Edition - Stock to KW Coilovers (Best riding Coilover I had) Downside of this coilover was that the minimum lowering made it very unusable for winter driving unless you compressed the spring to lift the car and then it became bouncy.
Subaru STi - Stock springs to reputable aftermarket springs (Worst decision ever so they OEM springs went back on)
BMW 335D - Stock M-Sport to Ohlins Coilovers ( Very nice ride provided you are not driving on the Run flat tires). Stock height was maintained and winter with salt was not an issue. Winter ride was a little harsh but it was better than the OEM but the winter tire set were Run Flats and the Summers were not.

Currently I have the S3 with the Mag Ride. The comfort setting is best all around if your roads are not very good, otherwise if using dynamic the car can get bouncy when hitting an uneven patch of road at speed. The S3 does have a pretty good spring rate, but the valving is probably designed for cost in mind. If I didn't have mag ride on this car to dial in to Comfort, I would probably change to KW coilovers. Since the S3 is just a short term car for me I will probably leave this one stock.

One thing I should mention, is if you do go and lower the car with a good coilover and you do drive with more vigor, you should look into changing the bushings for the components as they will wear faster from the extra load. 

Even if you don't care about the adjustment now, you will care when you would like to just tweak a setting before locking it in. The reason my GTi was the best handling car I have owned to date was the time spent tweaking height and damping and when complete, it cornered like it was on rails.

Hope this helps you some.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

ERTW said:


> Answers below
> 
> 1) Corrosion risk with the coilover is not an issue if the materials handle the elements. They may be more expensive by building from Stainless or Protective coatings but they work.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the detailed answer.

Yes, I wish the S3 was available when I got my car. The S3 with mag ride is definitely the way to go...can go comfort and stiff depending on mood.

Since I found the S3 without mag harsh at times (and the standard A3 suspension being too soft), what aftermarket parts do you suggest? I saw in reviews that the Bilstein B14 coilover is even stiffer than the S3 suspension, so there doesn't seem to be any coilover set between the A3 standard suspension and the S3 nonmag suspension.

Do you have any suggestion?

I wonder if the H&R sportsprings + Bilstein B6 HD is a good compromise.....The Bilstein B6 is for stock ride height, but both the B6 for A3 and S3 have the same part number (that means it should work relatively well for the S3 stock ride height). The A3 H&R sportsprings (different from the S3 H&R sportsprings) lower the A3 ride height by 1.3" so the final ride height is not that far off from the S3 standard ride height....so I wonder if this will work well.....


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

VWNCC said:


> Thank you very much for the detailed answer.
> 
> Yes, I wish the S3 was available when I got my car. The S3 with mag ride is definitely the way to go...can go comfort and stiff depending on mood.
> 
> ...


The setup that is between standard A3 and S3 without magnetic ride should be ... an A3 with Sport package / sport suspension. I have driven an A3 without sport package (it seems like that is what you have) and it is definitely softer than my own A3. I dare not drive an S3 because I would be really tempted to switch cars, or at least swap in a whole bunch of S3 parts. Is the Sport Package A3 not low enough for you?

On another note, I am planning to get light weight wheels soon, which being unsprung weight should make the suspension work slightly better. Then maybe Bilstein B8 thereafter if the lighter wheels do not improve handling sufficiently.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

A3_yuppie said:


> The setup that is between standard A3 and S3 without magnetic ride should be ... an A3 with Sport package / sport suspension. I have driven an A3 without sport package (it seems like that is what you have) and it is definitely softer than my own A3. I dare not drive an S3 because I would be really tempted to switch cars, or at least swap in a whole bunch of S3 parts. Is the Sport Package A3 not low enough for you?
> 
> On another note, I am planning to get light weight wheels soon, which being unsprung weight should make the suspension work slightly better. Then maybe Bilstein B8 thereafter if the lighter wheels do not improve handling sufficiently.


The problem is...in Canada, according to my sales (not sure if he is right), the S-line suspension is the same as the S3 suspension setup....so I didn't try the A3 with S-line Suspension. That said, I do believe the S-line suspension is softer than the S3 suspension, which will be ideal for my case, but swapping to OEM springs and shocks is gonna be pretty expensive...might as well go aftermarket.... :banghead:


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## ERTW (Jan 17, 2000)

VWNCC said:


> Thank you very much for the detailed answer.
> 
> Yes, I wish the S3 was available when I got my car. The S3 with mag ride is definitely the way to go...can go comfort and stiff depending on mood.
> 
> ...



I just went through some of the options that seem to be offered for the S3

Bilstein - Uses mono-tube gas shock. These will be firm and they are really meant more for the track but will be fine if the roads are nice. If you try and dial down the damping you will get the opposite ride than you expect with little road joints feeling like your fillings are going to come out of your teeth. For this reason the better ride is on the suggested damping setting. The Ohlins I had on the BMW used this technology and they worked best with the damping set medium to firm and they were pretty good. I did play around with all the damping settings and with the damping low, it was not very good. With the Ohlins there was no drop and driving was pretty normal in winter. The Bilstein for the money, I would expect to see stainless, but it is just a coating system which needs to be washed in the winter to remove the road salt. Bilstein has over an inch of drop and if I had to choose I would not put these on a car since you never get the option to maintain OEM height for winter.

The ST coilovers use the twin tube technology and is a lower cost variant of the KW V3 by using a coating system for corrosion and will need to be cleaned just like the Bilstein in the winter. Lowering is reasonable with almost no loss on height if desired down to 1.2" Front/ Rear. If the valving is indeed from KW, then these will provide a nice ride. Not sure exactly where you are in Canada, but I would suspect that HPA motorsports in Vancouver may even have a car to just get an idea of the ride quality. These guys selected KW's for my GTi back in the day and they were a great coilover before the Inox line came out. The ST looks to come with adjustable damping suspect similar to V2.

H&R also has an option using the mono-tube shock. These have the coating protection for salt, but suffer from the large minimum drop 1" for winter.

KW V1,2,3 is again a twin tube setup and uses INOX materials and would work fine without much cleaning maintenance. V1 is preset damping height adjustable, V2 is rebound damping height adjustable, and V3 is compression and rebound adjustable and height adjustable. 


If I were you I would make a list of these categories and which one would be your desired type of coilover. Do you plan to track the car? Do you expect to see a lot of wet slush with salt and gravel in the winter/ spring? Do you need to maintain OEM like ride height to drive in the snow? Do you have a reasonable budget expectation?

I would probably go with the ST since I know that these coatings do survive winter alright as my Ohlins were fine after 3 winters and we have lots and lots of salt and gravel and my KW's were fine before they were changed to INOX. If you live on the Coast I might consider the Inox line, but they do add a considerable amount of cost. If you want absolute adjustability I would get the V3.
If you are going to track, you may consider the mono-tubes.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

ERTW said:


> I just went through some of the options that seem to be offered for the S3
> 
> Bilstein - Uses mono-tube gas shock. These will be firm and they are really meant more for the track but will be fine if the roads are nice. If you try and dial down the damping you will get the opposite ride than you expect with little road joints feeling like your fillings are going to come out of your teeth. For this reason the better ride is on the suggested damping setting. The Ohlins I had on the BMW used this technology and they worked best with the damping set medium to firm and they were pretty good. I did play around with all the damping settings and with the damping low, it was not very good. With the Ohlins there was no drop and driving was pretty normal in winter. The Bilstein for the money, I would expect to see stainless, but it is just a coating system which needs to be washed in the winter to remove the road salt. Bilstein has over an inch of drop and if I had to choose I would not put these on a car since you never get the option to maintain OEM height for winter.
> 
> ...


I don't track my car at all. I just want less body roll during relatively fast turns and on highway.

I don't want to have to deal with corrosion issues as well. I think springs+shocks might be the way to go. What do you think?


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## davera3 (Jul 26, 2014)

VWNCC said:


> I don't track my car at all. I just want less body roll during relatively fast turns and on highway.
> 
> I don't want to have to deal with corrosion issues as well. I think springs+shocks might be the way to go. What do you think?


I have the A3 with sports suspension with H&R sports springs. I felt that without the H&R, the car rebounded too much after a hard turn. With them, I feel much more confident, and only feel the rebound a bit now. I may do the B8 in the rear, as some others have suggested. The ride is firm, but for New Jersey crappy roads, I think I need to deal with it.

As for body roll, I'm looking at getting a rear sway bar as those are specifically meant to reduce body roll. I had put one on my 2001 S4, and definitely noticed a nice difference. I do compare this car to my 2012 GTI, which I loved how it handled, but hitting a pot hole in NJ made me cry out in pain every time.

FWIW, I do track my car (Pocono, Palmer, and Watkins Glenn already this year, and NJ Motorsports in about a month). Without doing a PSS10 install ($2500+ installed), I feel that the $275 H&R sway bar + 1 hour install time will be a great bang for the buck, and its not a 'throw away' peice if/when I do move to the PSS10s.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

davera3 said:


> I have the A3 with sports suspension with H&R sports springs. I felt that without the H&R, the car rebounded too much after a hard turn. With them, I feel much more confident, and only feel the rebound a bit now. I may do the B8 in the rear, as some others have suggested. The ride is firm, but for New Jersey crappy roads, I think I need to deal with it.
> 
> As for body roll, I'm looking at getting a rear sway bar as those are specifically meant to reduce body roll. I had put one on my 2001 S4, and definitely noticed a nice difference. I do compare this car to my 2012 GTI, which I loved how it handled, but hitting a pot hole in NJ made me cry out in pain every time.
> 
> FWIW, I do track my car (Pocono, Palmer, and Watkins Glenn already this year, and NJ Motorsports in about a month). Without doing a PSS10 install ($2500+ installed), I feel that the $275 H&R sway bar + 1 hour install time will be a great bang for the buck, and its not a 'throw away' peice if/when I do move to the PSS10s.



Thanks for your inputs. How long have you had the H&R for? So it doesn't bounce as much as stock, is that correct? So the springs work well with the stock shocks?

After doing more research, it seems that my best bet is a matched kit like the Eibach/Bilsten B12 pro-kit or the H&R Touring Cup kit...but too bad they don't make anything for our car... :banghead:


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## davera3 (Jul 26, 2014)

VWNCC said:


> Thanks for your inputs. How long have you had the H&R for? So it doesn't bounce as much as stock, is that correct? So the springs work well with the stock shocks?
> 
> After doing more research, it seems that my best bet is a matched kit like the Eibach/Bilsten B12 pro-kit or the H&R Touring Cup kit...but too bad they don't make anything for our car... :banghead:


Ive had the H&R for almost a year. Definitely doesnt bounce around as much, and they are 'progressive', which means they the more they are compressed, the more they push back, so normal driving is better, but turns are much better. No issue so far with the stock (sport) shocks.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

davera3 said:


> Ive had the H&R for almost a year. Definitely doesnt bounce around as much, and they are 'progressive', which means they the more they are compressed, the more they push back, so normal driving is better, but turns are much better. No issue so far with the stock (sport) shocks.


Is it any harsher than stock? or is it just simply better in everyway?


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## davera3 (Jul 26, 2014)

I have the sports suspension, so since they are progressive, i wouldn't say harsher, maybe a bit? Bigger the pothole, i guess it's harsher, but it's mainly during turns that its more controlled and less body roll and weight transfer. Overall, very happy.


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## [email protected] (Aug 5, 2015)

Another option that is popular for the 8V platform is the ST Coilovers. They are not quite as pricey as some of the H&R kits out there, but they still offer an amazing ride.


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## tekmo (Nov 30, 2013)

waiting for Bilsten B12 pro-kit


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

tekmo said:


> waiting for Bilsten B12 pro-kit


I am one same boat. I don't want to have to deal with corrosion with coilover. I don't track so coilover is overkill anyways. Bilstein/Eibach B12 really seems to be the way to go, but not sure when they will have it for NA. They already have it for the European A3 sedans.


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