# my newest project: ABA 16v S/C



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*My newest project: ABA 16v S/C*

I've been thinking about it for months now and finally I got working on it. I've had the stage 2 setup for over a year now and have had great luck. I decided that a 16v head was simply too tempting...

*The basics:*
BBM MK3 Supercharger kit
55mm pulley ~17lbs boost
16v head
Custom Scirocco intake manifold
FMIC
Factory management w/ C2 42# software. 
*
The pics:*
Preview image...









*The required parts:*
2.0l 16v head...it was cheap and freshly rebuilt, should be pretty good. 








Cool crinkle paint that I used for the valve cover.








Modified 16v distributor w/ mk3 one window hall sensor








I decided not to go with the 16v im shaft and oil pump and went with the BBM dizzy gizzy and modified im shaft gear
















The 16v timing belt is wider than the 8v one so I had to source the crankshaft timing belt gear from a 9a








The old 8v fuel rail won't work with the 16v head so I picked up a BBM 16v fuel rail and FPR adaptor








To go with the fuel rail were 4 digi fuel injector cups








Coolant hoses were sourced from a 16v passat...
















Olde engish has been very helpful in this project. It turns out that the cap fits nicely on the timing gear.









More pics and updates soon, my camera has been acting up. 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 12:31 AM 8-9-2006_


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## 94jetta~~ (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

looks like its gonna be pretty sweet, make sure you post updates http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

update please http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif who is it going


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

Quick update. Its been a bit slow this week due to finals, but this is where I'm at.
I took it all apart due to a loud noise the engine was making. 
Turns out that the crankshaft pulley bolt had backed its way out and now the keyway on my crank is all messed up. Looks like I'm going to have to pin it g60 style. 









I've got the 16v head studs in. After seeing these pics I'm thinking I will have to clean everything before I put it back together. I also broke the red part of the dipstick tube. I'm thinking JB weld and duct tape...honestly.


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## Guest (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

if you need your serp pulley back-cut for fitment, drop me an IM...


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## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

nice work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif keep us update


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (memoryred gti)*

Andy-
We will have the manifold ready to ship for you on Monday.
Talk to you then


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## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (JBETZ)*

I can't wait to see this complete, I've almost got what I need except a few parts I will need to send to you and buy off you. This is a great.


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## anti bling (Dec 13, 2003)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (JonVWluver)*

any updates? i would love to do this but with a turbo.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (anti bling)*

The head is on and the wiring is done. The only thing that is left is intake and intercooler plumbing. 
I would take photos, but my D70 is broken







.
This is the last photo it took.








I'm going to see if I can borrow a camera tomorrow to take pictures. 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 3:24 PM 6-11-2006_


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## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

curious to hear if you notice any difference in power without any other change


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (mkiii2.0jetta)*

It looks like the rest of the parts will arrive tomorrow. I should have it done fairy soon.
I won't be doing the intercooler just yet, so I will contine to run the stage 2 pulley.


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## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

i think this is the first time i have ever seen anybody put a mk2 motor in a mk3 its normally the other way around


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

The bottom end is still mk3. The transmission is out of a corrado, the head is out of a passat, the intake is out of a scirocco, the starter is out of a tdi (it was laying around) and only the exhaust manifold and crank gear are out of a mk2. I should also mention that the owner is out of his mind.


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## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

bets must love that booty







j/p - crazy project man i cant say im not jealous and anxious to see how it turn out


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## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Well this should be awsome when you get it done just remember to stay sain to enjoy it. can't wait to see it on the road this weekend, now I need to get my butt in gear and get the parts I need to start mine. talk to you soon


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## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

I like what I see http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Update*

I finally got a camera to snap a few pictures. Here is my progress. 
























The hose clamps aren't on yet, but this is how I was able to use the factory management. Notice that the white connector that used to go to the sensor on the flange now goes to the one on the head. 








Close up of the FPR adaptor








I had to use a custom front coolant flange and coolant lines since the factory front coolant flange hits the supercharger. Hose clamps are on the way.








Here is a shot of the modified accessory pulley.








It looks like I may get it running tomorrow.


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## red97k2golf (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: UPDATE (BMGFifty)*

sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif what kind of numbers are you going for when this is completed?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: UPDATE (red97k2golf)*

I'm hoping for 220whp. Anything over 200 would be great.


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## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: UPDATE (BMGFifty)*

VERY good job there BMG http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
let us know all the parts you used to do your project...it's inspiring me alot


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## kamikaze2dope (Apr 26, 2003)

*Re: UPDATE (BMGFifty)*

Wow thats cool Bmg!
What its gonna be next spring?








Good luck!


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: UPDATE (kamikaze2dope)*

I got the manifold and the rest of the misc stuff installed. I'm gonna go and fire it up in a few minutes after I figure out some temprorary boost tubing. 

























It's such at tight fit...



















_Modified by BMGFifty at 4:54 PM 6-16-2006_


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## red97k2golf (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: UPDATE (BMGFifty)*

how are you going to run the plumbing for that thing?
Is it going to be a good fit with the IC?


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## mack73 (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: UPDATE (BMGFifty)*

beautiful. You'll be at waterwagens right? I need to check this thing out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: UPDATE (mack73)*

I'll be at waterwagens.
The intercooler piping hasn't been fabed up yet. To get the thing running I have some temporary tubing connecting the charger to the intake. It's pretty funny looking, but it will be functional enough so that I can drive it for a couple of days.

The car won't start. It's not getting any fuel and the battery is almost dead. I put the feed line into a jug and it doesn't seem to be pumping any fuel. 
I'm going to recharge the battery and give it another shot. It cranks over and doesn't make any weird noises, so my fingers are crossed.


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## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: UPDATE (BMGFifty)*

first cranks give me the heebee geebees.
this project is sick http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

Anyone know if I need to prime the fuel rail?


_Modified by BMGFifty at 8:11 PM 6-16-2006_


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Fuel pressure guage in line on the inlet side, wait till you get some pressure. It should be somewhere around 40-45psi, so as long as you get around 40 before the fuel pump prime shuts off, you'll be fine.


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## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: UPDATE (BMGFifty)*

Well can't wait to see it this weekend Andy, I need you to get me a list to give John so I can have my parts shipped my way. talk to you soon progress looks great....


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## EDM_v-dub (Mar 16, 2003)

I'm anxious for an update Andy!


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

That looks like an awesome project. Did you dyno the 8v head before you did the swap? I think you should be able to make 220whp easy with that setup. How much did you end up spending on the head swap? Good luck with the rest of your project.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

With the current pulley on the 8v head it made 183 whp. I plan on running a much smaller 55mm pulley for 17 lbs of boost.
I'm not sure how much it cost, and I'm not sure if I want to find out.









btw...
*IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!* I'm testing it now. It seems like I have a dead miss in one of the cylinders...i.e. its only running on 3 cylinders.
I'm going to drive it a bit and see what happens.

UPDATE: I just did a quick drive with the wideband. It says 15-20 afr







I'm guessing its because of the misfire. There is also a loose ground somewhere cause my gauges go all wonky. At least it's drivable. 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 2:27 PM 6-17-2006_


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

Here is a shot with the ghetto intake plumbing. The silicone couplers flatten out under vacuum, it's pretty funny. I really only need these tubes to get the car up the street so they can do the intercooler install.


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## MoGtheMooGle (May 14, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

dope project http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif woulda looked even better in a mk2 or a bunny!
sorry...I'm just not a fan of mkIII, but, props for good stuff!


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## highoutput (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: (MoGtheMooGle)*

this things amazing im soooo jealous!!!!
btw, Where did you get the moded accessory pulley, and coolant outlet?? Did you make them yourself?


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## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

bump for outer cam gear bolts. check pm...


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (highoutput)*

Most of the parts are from the BBM g60 16v kit. 
It's been running fairly well over the last day with only a few minor snags. I still don't think it is as fast as with the 8v head, but the power is smoother. I plan on re checking the timing and a couple of other things in the next day or so. I have a feeling that once it is sorted out the car will be much faster.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

probably wouldn't hurt to go a little smaller with the pulley, too... you've got a low enough CR to go a lot higher.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

I'm going to run a 55mm pulley, which is pretty small. I may go down to a 50mm, the smallest that they make. I guess it depends on how I'm feeling.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Most of the parts are from the BBM g60 16v kit. 
It's been running fairly well over the last day with only a few minor snags. I still don't think it is as fast as with the 8v head, but the power is smoother.


Don't be fooled by smooth power that you have ~low power.
because a smoother power curve is less violent your 'butt dyno' is
often fooled.
-Jeff


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

sick andy....sick.
i should call you next time we get together, i wanna check that thing out.
we should take it to the track too.


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## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (Duff Man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Duff Man* »_sick andy....sick.
i should call you next time we get together, i wanna check that thing out.
we should take it to the track too.









x2 count me in


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

SAWEEET! Just go buy a dipstick tube, its like $2.40 at the stealer.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re:*

The last day or so has been pretty strange. I ran out of fuel on the highway. Luckly I had the wideband hooked up or I would have freaked out. One of the o-rings on my injectors decided to let go and spray fuel on my intake manifold. No fire, but







a hot manifold and fuel is not a good combination. Turns out that the factory tank is exactly 14.5 gallons, or at least that is what I put in it. 
I'm still running the stage 2 pulley. With the 8v head I would see 10psi before 3k and 13 psi at redline. Now I see 7psi at 3k and 10 - 11psi at redline. The 16v head seems to flow much better.


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## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

Question is, does it seem to have more power???????


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_The last day or so has been pretty strange. I ran out of fuel on the highway. Luckly I had the wideband hooked up or I would have freaked out. One of the o-rings on my injectors decided to let go and spray fuel on my intake manifold. No fire, but







a hot manifold and fuel is not a good combination. Turns out that the factory tank is exactly 14.5 gallons, or at least that is what I put in it. 
I'm still running the stage 2 pulley. With the 8v head I would see 10psi before 3k and 13 psi at redline. Now I see 7psi at 3k and 10 - 11psi at redline. The 16v head seems to flow much better.


the main tank is 14.5, there is supposedly a 1.5 gallon reserve...whatever that means. at least according to the owners manual.


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Duff Man)*

holly cow ! setup I was maybe planning for a near future








would be nice a dynosheet to compared ABA head setup and now with the 16v setup


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## EDM_v-dub (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Duff Man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Duff Man* »_
the main tank is 14.5, there is supposedly a 1.5 gallon reserve...whatever that means. at least according to the owners manual. 









hmm
I wonder where the reserve starts at on the needle. Ive never gotten mine lower than the second red line.








When are you coming down Andy?


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Re: (EDM_v-dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EDM_v-dub* »_hmm
I wonder where the reserve starts at on the needle. Ive never gotten mine lower than the second red line.








When are you coming down Andy?


As soon as the gas light comes on, turn the car off and then on again. Youll notice the needle will be sitting slightly higher.


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_

As soon as the gas light comes on, turn the car off and then on again. Youll notice the needle will be sitting slightly higher. 

holy sh*t...that explains why that happens. awesome.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Duff Man)*

Timing is everything... I had a feeling that my distributor wasn't in the right place. It was tough to determine if the hall sensor window was incorrect or the timing was wrong. It could be both, but for the sake of argument I advanced the distributor. What a difference a few degrees makes! The car now feels pretty strong for ~8:1 compression. I'm fairly certain that it's still incorrect, but I'm going to drive it like this for a few days.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re:*

Got the IAT sensor installed today along with a new vacuum port.


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## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

i hate you


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## parasight (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

I have almost all these same parts sitting in my garage, along with a scirocco in a few hundred pieces..
thank you for getting me re-motivated


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## 16VT4Me (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

Sweet looking settup man...What kindda paint did you use on the valve cover?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (16VT4Me)*

I used Krylon wrinkle finish #3370 Jet Black on the valve cover. Make sure that the surface is very clean. I used my oven to help it wrinkle more. If you do decide to put it in the oven, make sure that the temp is fairly low and don't take it out of the heat once it starts wrinkling.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Oh noes111!!*

The car was overheating pretty badly this week so I took the head off. The local shop (finetuning) diagnosed it as a bad head gasket. 
I figured it wasn't a big deal, since I can get the head off in 50 minutes.
Check out what I found.
The valve clearance is a bit less than desired.








The head is getting checked for bent valves tomorrow.


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## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

tears to me eyes...


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (ChinkyVdub)*

I should note that it ran just fine like this.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_ 
The head is getting checked for bent valves tomorrow. 



Translation: The BENT valves are being removed tomorrow.

Sorry man.









Keep us posted.

-Jeff


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (Jefnes3)*

actually, i'm willing to bet that *since the car ran fine*, it was hitting the valves when they were closed....kinda hard to bend them when they have no where to go...
if they aren't bent, i'd look closely at the seats and make sure they aren't fuxored....that and the guides and seals...but i'd be willing to bet they were fine as well, judging by the lack of serious burnt oil buildup on the piston (and you not mentioning anything about burning oil/oil consumption)
going back to the thicker head gasket?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (Duff Man)*

You make a great point Ryan. I hope you are right!








I'm still going with an ABA HG.


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_You make a great point Ryan. I hope you are right!








I'm still going with an ABA HG.

going to *properly* clearance the pistons then? haha, sorry, couldn't resist.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (Duff Man)*

I'm going for the SME.... Self Machining Engine.


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## betajetta (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

i think its just because of the OBD2 ABA pistons with the two risen edges instead of just one like the OBD1 pistons had. just a thought.
i would get a set of JE forged 9A 16V pistons for 420 bucks and it would raise the compression ratio to 9:1 and take care of the valve clearance issue. you will need to get your block bored to 83mm if you choose to go with 9A pistons though.
heres a link to the pistons:
http://www.nolimitmotorsport.c....html
otherwise get OBD1 pistons and it should take care of it too.


_Modified by betajetta at 1:15 AM 6-30-2006_


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (betajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *betajetta* »_i think its just because of the OBD2 ABA pistons with the two risen edges instead of just one like the OBD1 pistons had. just a thought.

my obdII pistons had a regular dish, not raised edges above the dish.


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_


















Thats a new one for me. Ive never seen an ABA piston with those raised notches before. No wonder it hit. Id pull the pistons and have the front one shaved off.


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_Thats a new one for me. Ive never seen an ABA piston with those raised notches before. No wonder it hit. Id pull the pistons and have the front one shaved off. 

look at it closer, it would have hit either way. Its always been known _especially_ with stock ABA pistons that if your doin the 16v head to notch the pistons.


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_look at it closer, it would have hit either way. Its always been known _especially_ with stock ABA pistons that if your doin the 16v head to notch the pistons.


It does look like it would have hit either way. The head must have been shaved. 
On a stock head, OBD2 block and aba headgasket. I had .038" clearance from valve to piston.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

what was your cam timing set at?


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## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (mkiii2.0jetta)*

drop me a line if you need any help, i did the same setup in my mkIII last spring
btw go with the 52mm pulley


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (all-starr-me)*

I have not started to mess with the cam timing yet. It was set at 0.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

It turns out that only the intake valves in cylinder 2 were bent, which is odd because the marks are on all four cylinders and are not as big on #2.







I'm not too surprised that the rest are ok since the engine turned over by hand a dozen or so times without much effort.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_

It does look like it would have hit either way. The head must have been shaved. 
On a stock head, OBD2 block and aba headgasket. I had .038" clearance from valve to piston.

OBDI pistons will hit the 16V valves, unless you either notch the intake side of the piston, or double stack gaskets (of course, your compression is already so low, I doubt it would run with stacked gaskets)


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (ABF Jeff)*

I feel vindicated... it turns out that the head I was using was machined incorrectly.







It was not only below minimum height, but it was also tapered towards the front. I've got another head on the way.


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

Damn, that sucks.


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## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (PBWB)*

Id feel better knowing that it wasnt something id done too! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

Hey Andy- you need to get your you know what down to Bend for a visit. I've got a slick IC kit with your name on it


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (JBETZ)*

I need to get my you know what running again first. Should be all done tomorrow.


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## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

hey andy you dont need that ic - you should let me "borrow" it


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## shynop (Jun 16, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

damn that thing is awesome, i'm thinking of getting the bbm kit for my 2.0 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
got any sound clips?


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## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

Andy if you want, we could arrange a day to drive to Bend to go visit the boys at BBM we could ddrive my 1.8 I get like 400 miles to the tank in that thing better than our BBM equiped cars get at the moment. let me know. I hoipe your cooling problems have been fixed. did you get that lower T-stat in there today? ok talk to you later http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (JonVWluver)*

God I miss the PNW... I've gotta get back up there soon! When is WaterWagen's? Might have to get an AZ caravan going. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (ABF Jeff)*

Waterwagens is this month on the 30th. You should come up here, tons of nice cars.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

Not gonna make it, DAMN!
I'm missing WaterFest, DubWars, AND WaterWagens this year... Damn I hate Arizona!
definitely next year, man. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (ABF Jeff)*

After the incident with the bad head, blown head gasket, wild overheating and various other issues I have been hesitant to really push the car...until today. 
Now that I have an entirely different 16v head and new HG I took it for a spin. It feels pretty darn good all things considered. Once I get the intercooler installed I will up the boost and want to get more agressive with the timing. 
As it sits now, on a 85 degree day with no intercooler and no tuning it will still loose traction anywhere in first and through the first few feet of 2nd. It's nothing to write home about, but still pretty strong. It feels like a really strong VR... and thats with 8:1 compression.


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## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

I need to stop reading this thread because this is the exact thing that i want to do to my car, and i sure as hell cant afford it at the moment


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## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*

Well I already have a 16v head and distributor,I need to get the head resurfaced due to a nice scrap in it now from moving, but just a few more parts needed and I am ready to do this swap as well Andy, I have that other car now so I don't need to worry about down time any more. So I will do the swap get a good tranny with a LSD, inner cooler and we will be set to go. talk to you soon let me know about OR. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (JonVWluver)*

I made this graphic to show how to swap the hall sensor shutter window.


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I made this graphic to show how to swap the hall sensor shutter window.









Good info.....you just answered alot of guys' questions.....


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (PBWB)*

So do any of you know if it's possible to put a 16v head on a 1.8 block that the original configuration is a 1.8 8v running CIS 86 GTI I am thinking I may put it on my mk ll and slap a small Turbo on it.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (JonVWluver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JonVWluver* »_So do any of you know if it's possible to put a 16v head on a 1.8 block that the original configuration is a 1.8 8v running CIS 86 GTI I am thinking I may put it on my mk ll and slap a small Turbo on it.









Yes, but you will want the 16V intermediate shaft, dizzy, timing set.... a lot of stuff from the 16V is needed... best bet is to find a 1.8 or 2.0L 16V engine with accessories and swap the head and everything else onto the 8V block... this will get you forged internals, lower compression, better flow, and you should still be able to run it on the same management with a turbo chip. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Not to over-simplify this process, it's a lot of work, but a mostly bolt together setup.


----------



## RedIrishman (May 24, 2005)

I WAS thinking of doing a setup like this, 2L aba with a 16v head and S/C but now I'm kinda scared about expenses







Maybe in the future.
Right now I have a built 2L aba sitting on a pallete next to my house wating to be swapped into my 87 golf. Maybe I'll just stick with the 8v head for awhile, the PO of the motor had it built up for F/I... I think I may go for the Turbo route on this motor for awhile and maybe when I have spare dough go with a 16v head.


----------



## Killzone2142 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (RedIrishman)*

anymore updates on this? this thing is freaking sweet


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Killzone2142)*

This car is cursed or something. It was driving great for the last week or so. Good power and most importantly no overheating. 
So here is where I feel stupid. The upper heater hose that I used was the wrong one. Apparently if you use the one for an older 8v head it will fit, but pull on the coolant flange and cause it to break. 
I was driving home the other night when BAM the flange broke...for the second time. Within about 3 seconds, all of the coolant had emptied itself. It was 2am and I was 5 blocks from my house. I limped it home. I mean who gets a tow for 5 blocks.
Now the headgasket is blown and I have to do it all again.
I think I can do the whole thing in 2.5 hours, with removing the charger. 
Btw I now have the correct hose.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

ouuuch


----------



## Killzone2142 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

that sucks man. do you think you can us some more pics too? i really want to see this thing on a dyno


----------



## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: (Killzone2142)*

chin up dude!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (jettatech)*

All of this work will make it all that much sweeter when it is running again. 
I pulled the head today, what a pita that was. I got everything disconnected from the head and all of the nuts off of the studs in about 40 minutes. If it was anything like the last time I did this (2 weeks ago) the head would slide right off. 
Not a chance. I took a 3 foot long crow bar and wedged it between the head and the block.... nothing.
I though that I forgot a nut or something, but everything was free.
I remember that when I put the head on the bores for the head studs were a bit tight. So tight that the head wouldn't go on without me taking a drill to the bores and bringing them back to their factory diameter. I guess I didn't drill them out enough because the studs were PINCHED in the head!








It took me 2 hours with the tiny ass allen on the top of the studs to extract them. I mean they were tight!
CONCLUSION: Buy undercut head studs next time and/or make sure the bores are a bit larger than the studs. They tend to deform when torqued.
Learning is fun!








EDIT: GOOD NEWS!!! The valves didn't hit the pistons this time. Time for a







or 12


_Modified by BMGFifty at 5:23 PM 7-18-2006_


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
EDIT: GOOD NEWS!!! The valves didn't hit the pistons this time. Time for a







or 12

_Modified by BMGFifty at 5:23 PM 7-18-2006_

thats what im talking about andy ! 
pour one for the hommie


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (SC VENTO III)*

Ugh, now I have to walk to the beer store. I'll see how many 40's I can carry.


----------



## RedG6 (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Damn Andy, I just now saw this thread. Bitchin work


----------



## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I have undercut ARP and I needed to remove the studs before the head every time I pull it off. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (pozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pozer* »_I have undercut ARP and I needed to remove the studs before the head every time I pull it off. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


Thats because the 16v heads like to warp a little. I couldnt even start studs on one motor. Had to have the head bolted down on a Bridgeport machine and use an end mill to bring them back into spec. 1 hole had a "wave" in it about 1/2" from the deck.


----------



## punisher89 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_I need to stop reading this thread because this is the exact thing that i want to do to my car, and i sure as hell cant afford it at the moment










x eleventy billion
Credit card debit isn't THAT bad is it??


----------



## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (punisher89)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punisher89* »_

x eleventy billion
Credit card debit isn't THAT bad is it??

Credit Cards are the devil in disguise








Destroy them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## punisher89 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (SvenRasta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SvenRasta* »_
Credit Cards are the devil in disguise








Destroy them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yeah, i was joking. I have one, but I only use it for "emergencies". Emergency meaning whenever it involves a woman or my car.


----------



## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (punisher89)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punisher89* »_
Yeah, i was joking. I have one, but I only use it for "emergencies". Emergency meaning whenever it involves a woman or my car.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Oh noes111!! (SvenRasta)*

Oh so true, credit cards ruin people, but they have cool stuff until the bank comes though


----------



## EDM_v-dub (Mar 16, 2003)

I cant wait to see this thing Andy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rocconut (Feb 20, 2004)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
I also broke the red part of the dipstick tube. I'm thinking JB weld and duct tape...honestly.










Is this like breaking your glasses and taking a piece of tape and holding them together?








Last time I purchased this item even at the stealership it was under $5.00. With as much monies that has been put into this engine couldn't you at least splurge and buy a dip stick tube?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (rocconut)*

I did get a new dipstick tube. It was hard for me to get to the dealership without a car so I did fix it with tape for a day or so and then got a new one.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: my newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

this is the first time i've read this thread.. looks awesome. Do you have plans of running standalone? If I could ever get my kit to run right I'd love to build something like this. Keep up the great work!


----------



## jturel (Jun 2, 2006)

great project man
how much has this all ran you so far ?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (jturel)*

I honestly haven't totaled it up yet. Just to give you an idea of how much this has actually cost me, I'll tell you that the $2 in my wallet is the only money I have at the moment.
I may total it up tomorrow, but I'm not sure if I really want to know.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Sorry to those that wanted to see this thing at Waterwagens. I got the latest and hopefully last headgasket installed. I bled the system out and took it around the block. Coolant was spewing everywhere. I didn't know what to think. At this point white smoke was pouring out of my fan control module. (whos idea was it to put the thing below the expansion tank?)
It turns out that the o-ring on my expansion tank cap was broken.
1 new cap and a used control module later and the car is running again. 
The 70° C (158° F) thermostat is odd. The gauge sits almost at the bottom.


----------



## 97VWJett (May 17, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_The 70° C (158° F) thermostat is odd. The gauge sits almost at the bottom.

Your thermostat opens up reallly early! "Normal" operating temp is 185ish. Is the thermostat not opening all the way?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (97VWJett)*

Do you mean normal for stock thermostat or normal for the 70° thermostat? All I care is that it is lower than factory.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Ok so I finally totaled the whole thing up. Ugh.
Total price for this swap... an astonishing $3359.06








Intercooler is included in that price ^^^
A big portion of the cost was due to the multiple head gaskets, remachining of the head and other odd things like all new bolts and other hardware.
That doesn't include the price of the charger or the o2a swap.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

ouch, wait thats the price for the aba/16v alone? or all the parts minus the charger.


----------



## vwboomer2 (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Ok so I finally totaled the whole thing up. Ugh.



Now don't you wish you hadn't done that??
So you're into it for about 5g's. Man, that hurts all the way over here


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (vwboomer2)*

For the originality, power, and bragging rights alone, 5K is absolutely chump change...

Glad its all working well, I have been waiting to see this for a while. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (vwboomer2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwboomer2* »_Now don't you wish you hadn't done that??
So you're into it for about 5g's. Man, that hurts all the way over here









Don't want to know what it costs for a hi compression 20/20.


----------



## Killzone2142 (Oct 7, 2005)

5g's isnt that bad. i want to see videos and a dnyo chart? by the way have you gotten any cams yet?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Killzone2142)*

I'll post a video and dyno as soon as it is fully tuned. 
I'm running stock cams at the moment.
5k isn't too bad, but if you consider the price of the o2a, quaife and everything else it starts to add up.


----------



## 97VWJett (May 17, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I'll post a video and dyno as soon as it is fully tuned. 
I'm running stock cams at the moment.
5k isn't too bad, but if you consider the price of the o2a, quaife and everything else it starts to add up. 

O2A = $500ish I am sure
Quaife = $800ish not installed!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (97VWJett)*

+ clutch/pp, flywheel, brackets, cable shift assembly, clutch master and slave as well. ~$500 ....just saying.


----------



## 97VWJett (May 17, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_+ clutch/pp, flywheel, brackets, cable shift assembly, clutch master and slave as well. ~$500 ....just saying.
















now hurry up and post that video


----------



## Killzone2142 (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (97VWJett)*

dont forgoet the dyno too please!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Killzone2142)*

Here is a quick sketch I made to show the intercooler tube routing. 
I know it sucks, I did it in about 10 minutes...from memory.
I figured I should have more images.


----------



## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Here is a quick sketch I made to show the intercooler tube routing. 
I know it sucks, I did it in about 10 minutes...from memory.
I figured I should have more images. 









I did some delay calculations awhile back when I was thinking S/C + FMIC. went turbo instead though. This is with the BBM charger with different pully sizes.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (crashnburn987)*

So today JonVWluver stopped by to see the car. We decided to take a few low quality videos. 
The first is a shot of the engine at idle. The camera makes it sound really noisy, but I assure you that it purrs.
http://www.ayeckel.com/gti/bbmsc/idle.MPG

This second one is of a neighbor annoying drive by. 
http://www.ayeckel.com/gti/bbmsc/driveby.MPG

High quality videos coming soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Killzone2142 (Oct 7, 2005)

Peter griffin says "freakin sweet"


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Sandlock (Aug 10, 2001)

*Re: (SC VENTO III)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SC VENTO III* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Update*

So, I had been running the car with the hall sensor disconnected because the shutter window was placed incorrectly the first time.
Last friday I got it put in the correct place and














it hauls ass now. The throttle responce is better than ever and extremly progressive. It feels like it has gobs of power down low and rips up top. The car runs better than ever...at least until it gets heat soaked, but even then it runs better hot than it did with the 8v head. 
I ordered the intercooler and plumbing yesterday. 
This project is finally paying off. 
Stay tuned for more updates


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Uhh...yeah.
With the hall sender disconnected, the car runs in a "limp" mode. It runs on locked timing which is very conservative. I bet its a whole new car with it correct.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: Update (Band-Aid)*

would you be able to use a Scirocco 16v? head


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (ChinkyVdub)*

Yep, the scirocco 16v head is virtually identical to the others.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Oh yeah and the intercooler stuff arrived today.


----------



## 97VWJett (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Mmm you suck!


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

That IC is ridiculous for a 2L.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Jeff


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (Jefnes3)*

Believe it or not, it is actually smaller than the one I first had. 
Now I can get the thing tuned. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 16vMax (Mar 16, 2005)

wow. please get sound clips when its done! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (16vMax)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vMax* »_wow. please get sound clips when its done! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

I sure will.
Did you see the clips earlier in this thread?
EDIT:
The first is a shot of the engine at idle. The camera makes it sound really noisy, but I assure you that it purrs.
http://www.ayeckel.com/gti/bbmsc/idle.MPG

This second one is of a neighbor annoying drive by. 
http://www.ayeckel.com/gti/bbmsc/driveby.MPG



_Modified by BMGFifty at 10:08 PM 8-28-2006_


----------



## 16vMax (Mar 16, 2005)

Nice. 
Sorry I must have missed that


----------



## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (16vMax)*

I thought BBM was gonna rock the Water-to-Air Intercooler for Stage 3....
What ever happend to that? FMIC looks totally cooler I guess.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (crashnburn987)*

I'm not exactly sure why BBM decided to go with the FMIC, all I know is that the AWIC would not have worked with this head. I'm happy to have any form of cooling. 
I was thinking of blacking out the intercooler for the stealth look, but one listen to the car and anyone will know something is up. 
Roll on the throttle in first and a loud whine is accompanied with tire squeal and the shriek of pedestrians.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re:*

I did a bit of work today after class.

Here is where the intercooler will go. It is hanging upsidedown at the moment, but gives me an idea of where to start cutting.








It would be so much easier if I could go topmount... Bling!








This is what the engine will look like once done.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

I would suggest not blacking out the intercooler beacuse to a point, paint is going to basically trap some of the heat in the metal instead of allowing it to escape frome the intercooler. jsut my 2 cents, wish i had the dough to do all this though, good luck


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*

So I got the intercooler installed today. It runs very well. Now that I have driven the car without heat soak, it is very obvious that it was heat soaking badly. The only down side is that boost is down a couple of psi. It feels stronger so I don't really care. 
Pictures soon.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_ The only down side is that boost is down a couple of psi. 
Pictures soon.

Don't get worried about the pressure ~drop. Most of it is due to the
drop in temperature. Remember, ideal gas law....








Turbo guys never notice this as the turbo is controlled by pressure
so will change speed to mainitan boost.

Time for a smaller pulley? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

-Jeff


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

pictures ! 







to u buddy ...


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
Remember, ideal gas law....








Time for a smaller pulley? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


Ah, good old pv=nrt...or something like that








I've got a 55mm pulley that I will put on shortly.


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

When you place that pulley on that car I have to go for a ride in your car. You should come over this way I'll be renting a engine pulley for the time being to get that motor out of the car and start taken the parts off the car bringing it to a shell so I can rid of the body to someone or the junk yard.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (JonVWluver)*

I'm actually kinda scared about the smaller pulley. A guy in a modded wrx decided that he wanted to race me on the (closed course) highway tonight....lets just say that he was surprised. ... not that I'm bragging.


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

Do it go with the smaller pulley... love it can't wait to take a ride.... Job well done buddy.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I'm actually kinda scared about the smaller pulley. A guy in a modded wrx decided that he wanted to race me on the (closed course) highway tonight....lets just say that he was surprised. ... not that I'm bragging. 


You shouldnt brag, WRX's are slow on the highway. Even the modded ones get it put to by a strong VR mk3.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Band-Aid)*

I'm too modest to brag.








55mm pulley was installed today, took it for a short drive.














I'm glad I have an intercooler. The outlet of the charger gets damn hot.


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

feel the difference ? and red line to see how much boost u max out on that size pulley ???


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (SC VENTO III)*

It is much faster, I haven't been able to take it out for a good drive just yet to be certain of the boost.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

~ANY boost data would be appreciated....








Ideally I would like to ~copy this onto my Mk2 ABA.
(~small pulley, FMIC)
-Jeff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## RDE38 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Re: (Jefnes3)*

Any pics of the intercooler fully mounted?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Jefnes3)*

I will be logging the boost and o2 readings shortly. I just need to find the time.

I don't have any pics of the intercooler installed. I had to return the camera that I was borrowing and my d70 is currently broken.


----------



## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
I don't have any pics of the intercooler installed.


----------



## hubbzVW (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Re: (crashnburn987)*

Post a vid whe nyou have the opportunity... I would really like ot hear how it runs... Great project. Makes me hate livin in Cali....








CARB


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (hubbzVW)*

I'll get pics up soon. I'll have to borrow a camera again.
There is also a preliminary video a page or two back.
I'll get new vids as well.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

You started all this ~hoopla.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now get 'crakin'









-Jeff


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

I'll be more than happy to get you some photos and video, just need to swing by and we can hook it up. I decided I am not running a A/C in my next set up.


----------



## Gibson5469 (Oct 12, 2005)

subscribed.


----------



## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*

Pics and boost level!!!!
Video and dyno would be awsome also







.
This thread is the reason I started building my current engine for my MKII GLI. ABA/16V w/an Eaton M90 blower, still undecided on engine management. Hopefully in the not too distant future, I'll have my engine bay looking similar to your setup. More pics!!!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (evil-e)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'll be populating this page with tons of pics in the near future.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

you going on the raineer drive?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

After a bit of consideration I decided that I don't want an engine with a pinned crank pulley. Yesterday I bought an OBD1 block to rebuild and swap out with my mostly obd2 bottom end. I'm getting tired of wondering if its going to hold or not., plus my rings were starting to go and I don't like when it burns oil at startup.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Well, better safe than sorry. Guess it will still be a while for more car porn..


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_You started all this ~hoopla.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now get 'crakin'









-Jeff








Sooooo true. Can't wait to see this monsta.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_After a bit of consideration I decided that I don't want an engine with a pinned crank pulley. Yesterday I bought an OBD1 block to rebuild and swap out with my mostly obd2 bottom end. I'm getting tired of wondering if its going to hold or not., plus my rings were starting to go and I don't like when it burns oil at startup. 

is the block pretty much the same? Meaning like hose lines, sensors, mount points. etc? except for internals of course.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ChinkyVdub)*

The blocks are identical except for the internals. The crank and rods are forged on the obd1 block, as well as oil squirters. The obd1 pistons don't have the added squish area at the top that the obd2 pistons have.


----------



## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

how did u modify the distributor? from what i can gather u need to take the pins out of the gear on the bottom of both distributors to slide it all appart...am i right? i cant seem to get the pins out, if that is how u change out to the mk3 1 window sensor setup. also what did u do with the oil breather hose from the block? i was thinking about routing mine back into the intake kinda like it is now.....im sure im gonna have more questions for u over time as im building up a similar base engine setup, any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance man


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (drtbmxer)*

The pin is peened over. You have to grind the peening off and then tap it through. Truthfully, Ive never gotten the pin out with anything less than an air chisel. Then the shaft pulls out of the distributor, remove the locking clip and press the shaft from the window assy. Be careful when doing this as the window assy is easily bent.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (drtbmxer)*

For the oil breather, I blocked off the one on the block and used a breather assembly from a New Beetle. I then routed a hose down into the fender area. I don't have any photos of it yet.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_For the oil breather, I blocked off the one on the block and used a breather assembly from a New Beetle. I then routed a hose down into the fender area. I don't have any photos of it yet. 


Ill be surprised if you dont puke out oil like crazy with that set up. Most of us that have had 16vT engines have had to install the windage tray, crankcase breather and New Beetle VC breather not to fill up a catch can in 1 track pass.


----------



## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

u blocked off the one on the block? i dont really understand how its breathing now then? i dont see any other places for it to vent anymore? also is there a way i can contact u or Band Aid a bit more direct such as email or aim? if u dont wanna post any info up on here, my email is available in my profile, ive got a bunch of questions, and im sure more to come thanks guys


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*

Its breathing through the new beetle breather assy. It goes where the oil cap is and then the oil cap fits on top of it. Heres a pic


----------



## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

and u just make a catch can for that? thow a mini filter on it or reroute it into something? plus where'd u get it, i was thinking about GAP's since its in my town here, but i cant seem to find it on their website, thanks again also i just finished w/ my manifold/ valve cover painting and polishing last night....i like ur taste




_Modified by drtbmxer at 2:52 PM 9-15-2006_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*

Yep, that is the one that I'm using.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*

I use catch cans since it wont spray oil everywhere like just a filter will. Call GAP, Im sure they can get it for you.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*

The part number for the breather is 06A 103 465 D


----------



## drtbmxer (Aug 19, 2006)

thanks a ton guys


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (drtbmxer)*

I'm so undecided if I want to do the 16v head or just styick with the 8v until it blows and then just go to the VR with FI. well got to think about what it is i'm doing soon though, time is near, this Winter will be the time I do most of my project. Congrats Andy, you pulled off somethign great here. can't wait to ride in the car again nbow that you got the IC on.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

I may have to deny that I know you if you replace your 2.0 with a VR.
...Just letting you know.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

so when do i get a ride anyway you lazy bastard


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

One of these days I'll give rides.


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I may have to deny that I know you if you replace your 2.0 with a VR.
...Just letting you know.








 
so does that mean i don't get a ride


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (SC VENTO III)*

I have a test that I give to potential passengers. If you praise the vr, I won't let you ride. If you praise the 2.0l I will show you what can be done.


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I have a test that I give to potential passengers. If you praise the vr, I won't let you ride. If you praise the 2.0l I will show you what can be done.









zing ... well dont get me wrong the good old 2.0l has never let me down in 5 long years , i just the sound of a turbo vr out of my head ....hell if i had the money i would have both but my poor ass cant do that ... anywho how bout a shot of jager for a ride eh eh ?


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

You have to drive out to see him dude lol, and If I replace my mkll with a VR you know i'll have to go with FI as well. I love the simple understandings of a 2.0 though, they are really easy to understand. and you have room to work on them.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Just posted this head integration package
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=25


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

^^ That would have come in handy about 3 months ago...


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Quick update...
The car is running great, but burning a ton of oil. My rings are done. 
The OBD 1 block I just bought has scuffed pistons... so I'm going with some forged ones to fit in their place.
Credit Card FTW!


----------



## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

if you're going forged time for smaller pulley....
you know you want to....

(devils advocate)


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (purplejettahondaeater)*

I agree, smaller pulley, hell you'll have a complete bottom end with forged parts, go for the gold, can't wait to ride in this car when it's done. Do you have a pic of the car now that you also placed the lip on it ? just wondering how it looks


----------



## German_Muscle (May 12, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

if you dont want it to smoke then i would get stock pistons, Built motors always smoke. expecially during startup, idle, and decell. for the 1st 2K miles it will do this and gradually go away, but it sill still smoke on startup and decell for most of its life.
on another note. Nice buildup.


----------



## veedub0948 (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: (German_Muscle)*

heres the deal, can i do this on my AEG???


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Quick update...
The car is running great, but burning a ton of oil. My rings are done. 



How is the car running great if you're burning a ton of oil?


----------



## s.j.yanczura (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*

my first time checking out this thread
props to you sir http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif nice build








and that BBM package







...schwing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_

How is the car running great if you're burning a ton of oil? 


I don't know. It runs very well. I suppose it could run better. It's one of those great mysteries like when a car runs great with a bent valve.


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

You are my hero, It would be great if you gave out autographed posters of yourself holding a cam or something. YOU ARE THE MAN.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (IEatBabies)*

Wow thanks!! I do what I can. BTW the poster would have me holding 2 cams over my head (DOHC stylz).


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

lol o yeah, jk man, just keep us all updated with the new numbers.


----------



## drunkmanhere18 (Oct 5, 2004)

Just wondering if i should still dot he swap or redo my 8v then add onto the 16v down the road, money is tight so prob everyone will say stick witht he 8v but i can whore myself out or something for more money, but i waann get it done over the winter.but to the point really now just thingking if you had a lot of technical difficulties cause im straight with motors and parts but need to know more. So if this is gonan be a big project ahead of me let me know now cause for me i think i might be better with the 8v.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (drunkmanhere18)*

If you get the right parts, like the upper heater hose, there won't be many tech problems. The teething problems that I experienced shouldn't happen. I'm really surprised how much longer the powerband is. No longer does the power drop off at 5.5k.


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Well buddy all in time I wil be right there with you, just need a little more time and need to sell off these other parts from my mklll


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

amazing. 16v is the ish . . .im highly contemplating it.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*

It is amaizing on the highway. The power is so instant that passing is effortless. 

Oh and here is a pic of the pistons I'm putting in the new engine.


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

NICE..............................


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

Very inspiring! ...any numbers yet? Its VW pioneers like yourself, that document work, that make it easier for those that come later, thank you! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: (2deepn2dubs)*

Now I'm just curious, how many miles were on your old block before you decided to rebuild it??


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (IEatBabies)*

about 95k before I decided to rebuild


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Yeah but you decided to rebuild your motor to a OBD1 motor because of the internals. Good call in my opinion


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

ok, i know i am a total newb, I do know what OBD1 is, but why is a OBD1 block better?


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (IEatBabies)*

Well compared to the OBD2 motor the OBD1 blocks have a forged crank and rods,and to top those forged parts off the bottom end also has oil squirters, and pretty sure an OBD1 head came with dual valve springs verses the obd2 head which don't. The OBD2 blocks have cast parts and do not hold up as well under stress like forged parts do. I hope this helps you out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JonVWluver* »_Well compared to the OBD2 motor the OBD1 blocks have a forged crank and rods,and to top those forged parts off the bottom end also has oil squirters, and pretty sure an OBD1 head came with dual valve springs verses the obd2 head which don't. The OBD2 blocks have cast parts and do not hold up as well under stress like forged parts do. I hope this helps you out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

so why again did they change the design?


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*

Because VW is cheap.


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*

o snap, so back in the day they put forged internals in a 2.0l block. Noice, this thread is what keeps me going, I cant wait to get on payroll at work and get started on my all-motor project.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

they both have forged rods, and cast pistons, but it is the forged crank shaft that makes it hold so much power well and the oil squirters that keep the pistons cool in the obd 1 block. dual valve springs and bigger straighter ports without the AIR ports help the head breath well and rev high. 
I got 2 longblocks for less than $200 on monday, one had 109K and still ran great when I pulled it. plans are in the works, since i have parted a few 9A blocks and have all the parts, but I still can't decide whether it should be turbo or SC. I could probably run solid lifter 16v head with a lot of porting and have it spool a straight T04E to about 9K, but off boost down low would suck. Either that or the next larger Lysholm charger to keep up with the higher flowing head. any deals from BBM if we need a 16v kit?


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

sounds good, say...would you be willing to try to find me a longblock...eh?


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

i know... im trying to decide turbo or sc? 
...BMG did you have to relocate your alt to fit the 16v head???


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (2deepn2dubs)*

He did not have to move it, but for the 16v manifold to fit he had to shave part of the cold rail off, but the set up looks awsome,can't wait for him to show it off to me when he gets it all together with the new block.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (IEatBabies)*

you can't put an ABA in your mk4


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Update*

I've been busy getting the new engine all together. 
Here is the old and busted. 








and the NEW HOTNESS!








New Piston and Rod w/ ARP goodness








Fresh and clean aluminum bits, and check out the block off.








Timing belt installed








Timing belt and accessories installed








Charger and head installed









More pics tomorrow.... wait till you see what the intake manifold looks like now.



_Modified by BMGFifty at 8:08 PM 9-28-2006_


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Super stokeness!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: Update (2deepn2dubs)*

NICEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! i need to get that motivated. i can not believe you still motivated as much probs that bia old engine gave you.


----------



## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_they both have forged rods, and cast pistons, but it is the forged crank shaft that makes it hold so much power well and the oil squirters that keep the pistons cool in the obd 1 block. dual valve springs and bigger straighter ports without the AIR ports help the head breath well and rev high. 
* I could probably run solid lifter 16v head with a lot of porting and have it spool a straight T04E to about 9K, but off boost down low would suck. *

get a 4.25 R&P and it's not a problem at all he he trust me it's toooons of fun














, when you upshift (if you take it to 8500-9 k you won't drop below 6grand)


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Booya.
Check out the intake manifold...no cold start rail.









Reverse plug wires fit better with the breather attached.


----------



## hubbzVW (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

That looks like one hell of a wet dream.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## alexhileman (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: Update (hubbzVW)*

daaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmnnnnn
that is sexy beyond belief.


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: Update (alexhileman)*

VIDEOS!!!!!


----------



## EDM_v-dub (Mar 16, 2003)




----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Finally*

I just finished installing the engine. 

















Now I get to start it for the first time. Fun times.!


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

i like ur cold air intake andy hahaha , 
but that looks very nice ,







and http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to u buddy


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Finally (SC VENTO III)*

Hell with that set up he needs to join the idea I had with the 03 CAI and it would really set it off, I still can't believe this project is just about complete. How about those brakes now? You really need to upgrade..... See you soon.


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: Finally (JonVWluver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JonVWluver* »_Hell with that set up he needs to join the idea I had with the 03 CAI and it would really set it off, I still can't believe this project is just about complete. How about those brakes now? You really need to upgrade..... See you soon.


true true , ur CAI looks better ...
and remember vids and pics please http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Finally (SC VENTO III)*

If I get a chance to meet up with him tomorrow I will bring my camera and stuff to get some small video's and pics if he wants to do so.I'll have my son with me tomorrow so getting to ride in it the way I would want to or drive it just is not going to happen tomorrow







but i'm sure it's sweet.


----------



## hubbzVW (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

Looks fantastic... So does it feel diff between the OBD1 vs the OBD2? Videos and more pics are absolutely necessary... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Finally (hubbzVW)*

BMG, this is the last draw! You owe me some new underwear for how many times I've juiced myself looking at your post.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: Finally (Zorba2.0)*

if i was emo i dont know what feelings i would have about this car.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (Zorba2.0)*

I'm pretty sure my car is cursed. After getting it all together it started and ran great. It sounded tight and ran well... that is until I looked under the car and saw a puddle of oil.








The block was totally stripped at the machine shop before assembly, every plug, pin, rivet, stud..etc. was removed. The only two pins that were missing once I was done were the alignment dowels for the rear seal carrier. As far as I could tell, the holes didn't go through. On the other blocks that I checked, they didn't go through either. I'm now certain that they did go through and are letting the oil out. 
So the car is down for a little bit longer.


----------



## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

time to have a cold one.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

I feel your pain.


----------



## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Finally (jettatech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettatech* »_time to have a cold one.

or two or three


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (myjettaisred)*

I've got a case chilling in the fridge.
It turns out that it was not the pins, but a poorly fitting freeze plug. Still a pita, but not too bad.


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

IM'ed You


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: Finally (JonVWluver)*

so when do you expect it to be up and Pwning?? oh and btw


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (IEatBabies)*

End of the week, I think. I'm back at school this week, so things are a bit slow. Gonna take it easy on the engine for another week or so and stay out of boost until its properly broken in. Once I get to about 500 miles I'm gonna do an oil change and let er rip.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

A 500 mile break in period is an old myth. 

The sharp ridges on the cross hatch hone in the cyl walls are gone in about 20 mins of the engine running. With in the first 50 miles the engine is completely broken in as far as the rings are concerned. All the other parts dont need to be broken in.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (Band-Aid)*

Good point. I mean at 2000 rpm after an hour the engine will have already turned 120,000 times.


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

well thats sweet and lovely, but hurry the **** up, lol.


----------



## chrissor (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally (IEatBabies)*









i believe thats the sensor i think it is, but i don;t know where that vac line goes, it would make sence if it was to the FPR but i can;t follow it on the pic


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (chrissor)*

What that line does is go down to a "t" where it splits off and goes to the FPR and DV.


----------



## chrissor (May 6, 2004)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_What that line does is go down to a "t" where it splits off and goes to the FPR and DV.

if you were to stay NA would that vac line just run the the FPR as there is no need for the diverter valve?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (chrissor)*

Exactly.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

The new engine is so much stronger than the old one. Its a beast.
70-100mph is so potent, blink and its there. I haven't tested it fully because its not yet broken in. What amazed me was that it is so much snappier than my buddies 300whp 1.8t. I think I could easily beat him with a 2.slow, although not much was left stock.









I had one major







moment today when the XRP elbow that was supporting the FPR decided to let go, fortunately I had a spare in my tool box and took care of it on the side of the road. For future reference, the fittings are not structural items and under no conditions should be used as such.


----------



## Venkman (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

you need to hurry up and dyno this thing...you motor is amazing!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Finally (TSMJetta)*

how much psi is your charger putting out? i was thinking of doing the same thing but with a g60 charger but they are really only good for up to 17psi... ? btw http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (2deepn2dubs)*

Right now I'm running about 10 psi, but havent seen it due to the break in period. The 16v head flows so much better that 5 psi feels stronger than 10 did on the old 8v head.


----------



## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

now time to get a 50mm intake manifold... (yes i know it needs some machining)


----------



## hubbzVW (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Finally (TSMJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSMJetta* »_you need to hurry up and dyno this thing...you motor is amazing!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

x2


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (hubbzVW)*

It is now offical, this car is totally cursed. Today, while stuck in traffic, 3rd gear decided to strip. Fortunately I was able to make it home, but wtf! I thought the o2a would be strong enough to handle to power of the lowely 2.slo...despite being modified. Whats funny is that I've been pretty nice to it over the last 600 miles due to the fact that its being broken in. This is truely a














day,


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

O2M time


----------



## nutbox11 (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

i think a whole keg of







is in order. i just read this thread and you got a kick @ss project. good luck and keep with it.


----------



## Pry (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: Finally (BMGFifty)*

i guess your car is too powerful for any VW tranny







. my o2o is holding up pretty good for the past year. i try to shift her easy from first to second but other than that i beat on it regularly. do you have a LSD in that o2a? i got a peloquin and im dreading the day i have to replace the tranny cus its gona be a pain to pull the lsd and reinstall it in another o2o. hey atleast you truely know the meaning of the phrase 'you have to pay to play' cus you sure are paying.. sorry to hear it


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Finally (Pry)*

Trust me the 020 and anything over about, well stock, is a ticking time bomb. I had a aba turbo and it was good for about a year or so and then one day BOOM, no more tranny


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (mkiii2.0jetta)*

Guess I gotta install a new timebomb and get this car back on the road.


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: Finally (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_Trust me the 020 and anything over about, well stock, is a ticking time bomb. I had a aba turbo and it was good for about a year or so and then one day BOOM, no more tranny









... ah bmgfifty .. has a 02A ... so last time i check he said he did ...








still sucks to hear u blew that up ... a







to u


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: Finally (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_Trust me the 020 and anything over about, well stock, is a ticking time bomb. I had a aba turbo and it was good for about a year or so and then one day BOOM, no more tranny









My 020 with a Peloquin took to my modded 2.0 with zero problems and I had a little over 150 crank hp. It was daily driven and saw a fair bit of track time for over 2 years.


----------



## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Finally (WolfGTI)*

I was talking to Pry, not BMG


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally (mkiii2.0jetta)*

Heh, they are all timebombs.


----------



## uscfan (Nov 13, 2005)

BMGFifty you need to make a list of parts for all of us 2.slowers. After reading this I seriously have no mercy/compassion/desire for any sort of VR6. They are getting old, 2.0 power is the new fun thing to do, and you have proven its possible.
I plan on doing the 16V pretty soon, then I don't know if I'll do turbo or supercharger but nevertheless, help us out!!! We're all drooling here!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (uscfan)*

Ever since I proved it was possible, BBM released a kit that contains all of the parts. I will, however, make a complete list and post it up later.


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I just read this whole thread...wow man. I've always wanted to do the 16v conversion and thanks to you and now BBM...It makes it easier for a newb like me. The only thing is that I have the obd2 96-99.5 engine. If I go low boost like BBM stage 1 or custom turbo kit, do you think my engine would hold? Good luck on everything else and props on ur dub.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

I have beat the piss out of stock 2.0l engines. They are very stout. The weakness, as it seems, is in the transmissions..or in my case the nut behind the wheel. Just keep the boost in check and you shouldn't have any issues with the setup.


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

thanks man


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

anything new?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

I dropped it off at the shop so that they can take a look at it. I'll know by friday.


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

TRU


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Are you still using the same 2.0 8v ECU and chip with the 16v swap? I know you have a different mapped chip because of forced induction...


----------



## scott2.slow (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

i was waitn to see one as a project, now im hooked!!!!! thanks your motor got my dub blood pumpin again! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

The chip that I'm currently running is mapped for the old 8v head. I should have a new chip programmed once I get the car up and running.


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

So i can still use the same ECU i have, i just need a mapped chip from like EIP or TT or something?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

I'm using Jeff Attwood for my programming. His stuff is much better than the other two...and I've used both.


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Where do i go to get ahold of him?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

He is Jefnes3 here on the vortex.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
I'm using Jeff Attwood for my programming. His stuff is much better than the other two...and I've used both. 

Or you could simply get a standalone system


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

what about C2?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

Same stuff.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Or you could simply get a standalone system









I've been considering it. It's all a matter of money.


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

TRU...i have a buddy in town that has a 2.0 8v turbo...he fabricated the whole kit together and order the C2 chip and loves it


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

Is this the right manifolds and valve cover that i need? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...&rd=1


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

It depends on what side you will want your intake on. It is the proper manifold if you are planning a N/A setup.


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

well, i'm actually planning on a turbo setup


----------



## Venkman (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

have you considered using a usrt mani. for your turbo setup?


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (TSMJetta)*

yes i have actually. a buddy of mine in town has one and its pretty sweet


----------



## EDM_v-dub (Mar 16, 2003)

Updates on the trans?
Crazy bastard...


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (EDM_v-dub)*

yep, its still broken. I'm contemplating a tdi tranny in the case that mine is not salvageable. Long gears and gobs of torque...could be a good thing.


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWJettaGT97* »_what about C2?

C2Motorsports
=
Chris Collier
&
Jeff Atwood










C2


----------



## VWJettaGT97 (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

I'll be hitting y'all up pretty soon about getting a chip done.


----------



## FLATBLACKMK2 (Oct 10, 2003)

*Re: (VWJettaGT97)*

ANY updates on this power wise and pix


----------



## 91redjetta (Aug 28, 2006)

i think that i've read everything in the post and haven't seen what stock pistons you used in the obd2 bottom end to make the compression so low? i think that i've heard 9a pistons? but i'm not sure?? i would like to know if anyone could tell me? i want to turbo a obd1 with and 8v head... thanks for the help


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (91redjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *91redjetta* »_i think that i've read everything in the post and haven't seen what stock pistons you used in the obd2 bottom end to make the compression so low? i think that i've heard 9a pistons? but i'm not sure?? i would like to know if anyone could tell me? i want to turbo a obd1 with and 8v head... thanks for the help

The stock ABA 8V pistons with a 16V head conversion = approx. 8.5:1 compression ratio.
Here is a good read for you
Cuddle up with some blankets and pillows, maybe a cup of tea.








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1535079
We also have some info here:
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_....html


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I figured now woul deb a good time to ask you masters . . what exactly is diff between an abf 2.0 (16v of course) and an aba 16 head conversion? how do abf put out so much power. even over aba 16v. seems like all that work, it would be easier to get an abf.


----------



## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksEffect* »_I figured now woul deb a good time to ask you masters . . what exactly is diff between an abf 2.0 (16v of course) and an aba 16 head conversion? how do abf put out so much power. even over aba 16v. seems like all that work, it would be easier to get an abf.

Different ignition if I remember correctly, but this can be corrected for the ABA16v by using proper (aftermarket) engine management and ignition. The ABF you also have to remember was a well tuned motor the volkswagen built for the intention of rallying or motorsport IIRC. They were reliable at 170hp, but detuned onto the market at 150hp (supposedly to give the VRs a little breathing room). Also remember that the ABF came with relatively high compression, as compared to someone who slaps a 16v head on an ABA and only gets 8 or 8.5 to 1 compression, ABA 16v works just as well in my opinion and the one of the reasons it is popular is because of the availabilty of parts (we didn't get ABFs in VWs in the US) and inexpensive cost of the parts (a 16v head in good condition can be had for $200... how much would you be willing to pay for just an ABF block, plus shipping?). The compression on the ABA16v is ideal for tuning. That being said though, if I had the money and someone around here was selling an ABF for a fair price, I'd drop it in my car in a heartbeat (I like N/A). Hope that helps, I'm not saying what I said is gospel, it's just what I thought I remembered from years on here. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

BTW - I Thought I'd mention that there was a guy in England or somewhere like that across the water who after spending A lil over 7000 pounds (British currency) - he made 242bhp, good power but that is a hell of a lot of money for it. Then again it's from a 4cylinder... a VW 4cylinder which is almost unheard of on the vortex.


_Modified by The Rice Cooker at 10:50 PM 10-28-2006_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*

Yeah, the ABF is basically a 16v aba. It has the longer rods and taller block combined with the 16v head. The ABF comes stock with DIGI 3 management. Although, I honestly don't know a thing about it.


----------



## Cabby2.0t (Dec 20, 2003)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

That looks like an awesome project. Did you dyno the 8v head before you did the swap? I think you should be able to make 220whp easy with that setup. How much did you end up spending on the head swap? Good luck with the rest of your project. 

So if I keep my 2.0 8v the way it is. I'll be able to pull more than 200whp+ with stageII or Stage III BBM S/C? 
Im asking cause Im planning to spend some money in my Cabby 95. help me out here...


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Yeah, the ABF is basically a 16v aba. It has the longer rods and taller block combined with the 16v head. The ABF comes stock with DIGI 3 management. Although, I honestly don't know a thing about it. 
yea it does come with digi 3. i am so tempted to get an abf . . .but then id need the o2a and all . . .but tempting. plus i know i could find one cheaper than this . . .
http://www.ecodeparts.com/Merc...train


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksEffect* »_yea it does come with digi 3. i am so tempted to get an abf . . .but then id need the o2a and all . . .but tempting. plus i know i could find one cheaper than this . . .
http://www.ecodeparts.com/Merc...train

If you spent all your $$ on the ABF, the 020 would still work and survive long enough for you to find your 02A - it's not like you have to have the 02A to run the ABF


----------



## Gibson5469 (Oct 12, 2005)

that BBM kit is pretty sweet. then all you would need is the head.
is the price + head comparable to the average cost for this swap (sans charger related stuff ouf course)?


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
If you spent all your $$ on the ABF, the 020 would still work and survive long enough for you to find your 02A - it's not like you have to have the 02A to run the ABF

yea but. problem uno . . .kinetics STG III.


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*

no more update Andy ?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (memoryred gti)*

Sorry bout that... It has been a hectic week bussing it everywhere. Well that and 14 hour days. 7:30am to 9:30pm...ugh. 
It looks like 3 gear had 5 teeth missing, so its getting replaced. 
Reverse gear is chipped so its also getting replaced.
My syncros were beat harder than a red headed stepchild, so they too are getting replaced.
The replacement parts should be in somtime in the next couple of days...with any luck I will have a car once again by the end of the week.


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

with the time and moeny pu tinto this car . . you could own a ferrari. but wehres the fun in that. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksEffect* »_with the time and moeny pu tinto this car . . you could own a ferrari. but wehres the fun in that. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








Once he gets the little teething issues sorted I can't wait to see #'s and some video.


----------



## cant get a password (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

I have a 16v long block so I am about to attempt the same swap but how did you run the isv and brake booster line I can sort of see the brake line in the pics.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (cant get a password)*

question did you guys delete the SAI? I dont see the air pump. My is not working I was thinking since it cost like 200$ for the airpump I mid aswell delete it. thoughts?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (cant get a password)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cant get a password* »_I have a 16v long block so I am about to attempt the same swap but how did you run the isv and brake booster line I can sort of see the brake line in the pics.

The brake booster line goes to the barb on the throttle body.
My car never had an ISV since it is obd2.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ChinkyVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ChinkyVdub* »_question did you guys delete the SAI? I dont see the air pump. My is not working I was thinking since it cost like 200$ for the airpump I mid aswell delete it. thoughts?

Never had an airpump. I have heard that you can code them out of the ecu, but I don't know how.


----------



## cant get a password (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Are you running a mk2 16v exhaust manifold and the stock mk3 downpipe?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (cant get a password)*

Yes I am running a mk2 manifold with the stock downpipe. 
I have considered going with a header, but my credit card is still glowing red from everything. I've gotta let it cool off a bit.


----------



## Scracho (Nov 19, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

More, more! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (Scracho)*

any update? hows she runnin, if shes running?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*

Today, maybe today!! I hope I get it back. 
It's about 5:30 a.m. now, and I'm supposed to call the shop at 2 p.m, so 8.5 hours to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## fife78 (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

after riding in a friends mini, i was hooked on getting an s/c, especially for the sound. then i found this thread...this build looks great...enjoyed reading about it. hope it continues to go well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
its hard to tell from the pictures, but, do you have to move the alternator and a/c compressor out of the way for the s/c? if so, does the kit come with a bracket for this?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (fife78)*

The A/C is in the factory position. The alternator is tilted forward to allow room for the charger. The kit comes with everything required to bolt it to a stock ABA.


----------



## Venkman (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

so with the bbm 16v kit and their s/c kit it is all pretty much bolt up once you get the rest of the parts or does it take more creativity and fabrication?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (TSMJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSMJetta* »_so with the bbm 16v kit and their s/c kit it is all pretty much bolt up once you get the rest of the parts or does it take more creativity and fabrication?

The only modification that takes any fab work is cutting the cold start rail off of the 16V intake manifold.
You also need to tap a hole in the manifold for the air temp sensor.
The rest is all just spinning wrenches.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

what about the custom front water neck to clear the charger? and cutting down the serp. pulley 5.8mm to line up?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_what about the custom front water neck to clear the charger? and cutting down the serp. pulley 5.8mm to line up?

I thought he was talking about buying our kits.
Thats what Andy did.
These are included.


----------



## Venkman (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
The only modification that takes any fab work is cutting the cold start rail off of the 16V intake manifold.
You also need to tap a hole in the manifold for the air temp sensor.
The rest is all just spinning wrenches.

thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## andi_kg (Nov 2, 2004)

*Re: (TSMJetta)*

i really can't wait to see some video of this and some dyno numbers b/c I am wanting to do a aba swap in my rabbit gti mk1


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (GTi Angel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Angel* »_i really can't wait to see some video of this and some dyno numbers b/c I am wanting to do a aba swap in my rabbit gti mk1

Your Rabbit would be silly fast.
We did a G60 8V swap into a Scirocco, been a few years now.
This ran with the standard G60 BBM screw compressor, high boost.
Completely stock engine and management. It ripped off near consistent mid 11 sec 1/4" mile runs. We did several hundred passes down the track for over two years. This engine and blower has now been running flawlessly in a street drive Corrado for several years now.
Here is a link to this old school video of the car destroying a 400 hp Honda.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med....mpeg
Here is one of our 2.0L 16V Ltd. Lysholm type screw powered cars that was dynoed on an engine dyno.
It hit at 272 bhp, he is now shooting to eclipse the 300 bhp mark with some new cams.
This is on Digifant 1, in my opinion the MkIII management seems to work even better.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2911182








Have a great weekend


----------



## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

yeah sorry i posted about the mk1 gti wanting to do an aba swap under my roomates signin. she only has a mk4 for now. but yeah I love the rabbit and for 90hp runs very strong but I am trying to get all the info I can on doing an aba swap and wanting eventually to get a BBM supercharger just for the throttle response and the fact that I don't need alot of power to make a mk1 rabbit fast. seeing the rocco hit 11's makes me glad to see that my mk1 is possible to beat corvetts z06 with. brings a smile to my face. about how much power would I be able to pull from jus the aba motor and is it really worht it to do a 16v head swap. here is a pic of what I am working with.










_Modified by bigbumpmike at 4:11 PM 11-10-2006_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re:*

My car has been back now for a couple of miles. I forgot how powerful it was. I'm so happy to have it back!


----------



## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_My car has been back now for a couple of miles. I forgot how powerful it was. I'm so happy to have it back!

thats the best feeling in the world! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: Re: (myjettaisred)*

hmmmm power from an aba stock . . .i have no comment. and yes the 16v head is worth it.


----------



## ABNGTI (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: (bigbumpmike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigbumpmike* »_ about how much power would I be able to pull from jus the aba motor 

The ABA is rated @ 115hp stock, power to wheels is usually around 90hp I think.
BMGFifty; awesome work! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I would http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif to do this myself someday.


----------



## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: (ABNGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABNGTI* »_The ABA is rated @ 115hp stock, power to wheels is usually around 90hp I think.
BMGFifty; awesome work! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I would http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif to do this myself someday.

i ment on a stock engine with turbo or s/c how much could I make,


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (bigbumpmike)*

On a bone stock engine I would say the limit is around 160 hp... the injectors don't flow very well and the relatively high compression of the stock engine limits potential.
With a head spacer and some fueling bits you could pump that up to around 260-270 whp. More may even be possible, but you would have to port the head and do other things to the engine. 
The real limitation is the craptastic 020 that loves to pop its diff rivets.
The stock ABA is very stout and seems to love boost.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (Cabby2.0t)*

First time Ive read this post...I am amazed with your dedication a lot of people would throw in the towel but you kept with it! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
that being said I am getting an ABA 16V (obd1 and 1.8 16v head) and I was originally plannin for t3/t4 turbo but I am starting to lean over towards the immediate power of a supercharger. Im going to Germany for 4 years and im bringin all my parts with me with plans to build a Mk1 Golf...also I have Megasquirt MSnS to run this project as well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks for all your pics and info they will help in my decision making of turbo or S/C...


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Thanks! There were many times were I almost threw in the towel. 
Here is what third gear looked like. It wasn't really all that bad. I mean it could have been worse.


----------



## Neverender (Dec 23, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

holy lord


----------



## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

good work


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

got any pics of how the IC looks mounted up with the bumper on please post some


----------



## fostex (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: (jordan92o)*








A toast to you BMGFifty.
Very inspiring work you have done to the 2.slow
I am now thinking about and considering slapping in a 16v and adding the bbm s/c
Good Stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (fostex)*

Thanks guys, it was a tough project with all of the silly problems that I had. 
I'll see if I can find time to snap some pictures of the car with the bumper on. The only problem is that it gets dark at 5:00 these days.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Do you have any pics of the intercooler installed with the bumper off? I got my kit and not sure if I run it in front of the supprot and hack it a bit or what? Could you elaborate the process for me a bit?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

When I installed mine I hacked a bit more than I needed. I basically just chopped a section out of the rebar. If you want to do it "properly" leave the top of the rebar intact so that the bumper has support in the middle.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Check this gem out.*

Got it today, after I made changes to be quieter.


----------



## regrind (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Check this gem out. (BMGFifty)*

define "normal levels"..
they misspelled noisy


----------



## s.j.yanczura (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Check this gem out. (regrind)*








thats awesome


----------



## autocross16vrocco (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Check this gem out. (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Got it today, after I made changes to be quieter. 









haha that is great.. i got a note like that on my Merkur once.. Heck my motorcycle is louder than most aftermarket exhausts..


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: Check this gem out. (autocross16vrocco)*

I got to smile at this one. thats orginal.


----------



## cant get a password (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: Check this gem out. (ChinkyVdub)*

Hey where is the noise level adjuster?I would make mine go to 11 which is 1 higher than 10.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Check this gem out. (BMGFifty)*

People are supposed to be up making breakfast by 4:00, "it's all about the woo woo"- Bub Rubb and Lil' Sis

Thanks for the pic


----------



## fostex (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: Check this gem out. (Zorba2.0)*


----------



## autocross16vrocco (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Check this gem out. (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_People are supposed to be up making breakfast by 4:00, "it's all about the woo woo"- Bub Rubb and Lil' Sis

Thanks for the pic

"supposed to be fixing (or maybe cooking) breakfast for some body... woo woo"


----------



## myjettaisred (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Check this gem out. (autocross16vrocco)*

hahah i got one very similar.. something about "we are concerned about the saftey of the children in the neighbor hood" and "we would really appriciate not being woken up every morning at 6am


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: Check this gem out. (myjettaisred)*

Question if i went hood mounted IC. what is the clearance between the plug wires and the hood? I probably use a legacy hood scoop. thnxs btw I bought my 16v head. i just need to clean it.


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: Check this gem out. (cant get a password)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cant get a password* »_Hey where is the noise level adjuster?I would make mine go to 11 which is 1 higher than 10.

: Points at car : but THIS one goes to eleven....


----------



## Jetta GTX (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

dude i wanted to ask if by any chance have a sound clip and if your using a 1.8 head of 2.0


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (Jetta GTX)*

The head is a 2.0 head. There are a few video clips on page 5. More videos and a dyno coming soon.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

i guess no interest in top mount?


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_... More videos and a dyno coming soon.

Theres the answer to the question I was going to ask, so I geuss this is just a bump then. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Your motor project has turned out awesome, can't wait for some #'s









Garth


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (g60vw)*

Another Bump, just incase you forgot where your post went so you can post updates, lol!
Ask Santa for a video camera! http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (Zorba2.0)*

Update: More fun stuff !!! I think I need to retorque the head studs because I'm getting goo on the dipstick.








I think the head gasket is leaking coolant into the oil, which is not a good thing. 
I'm extremely busy with finals so I have no time this week to fix it. 
Oh and my exhaust broke a weld and now it rattles like a mo fo. Sounds like I dragging the whole system. 
Fun times!


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

For all the tragedies that happened along the way, this is pretty sick. Hopefully I'll be going 16v soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (Kabinotar)*

New pics
man I really need to clean under the hood.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif cant wait for numbers...btw I bought that 1.8 16v. now looking for a OBDI block.


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (ChinkyVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ChinkyVdub* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif cant wait for numbers...btw I bought that 1.8 16v. now looking for a OBDI block.










I have 2 OBD1 blocks for sale. Actually, 1 is a completely rebuilt obd1 engine w/ TT 266 cam and the other has 97k miles on the bottom end.
$500 for the complete engine, $150 for the bottom end.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

Your car looks like it's grining. Of course it should be, look at what's under the hood!


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

Well, soon enough my car will be smiling as well,I have already started to disconnect everything to install my set up in my car.... can't wait.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

Andy, were you able to use your stock down pipe with the 16v exhaust manifold?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

Yep, the downpioe is stock, although I would use a header if you can afford it.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Yep, the downpioe is stock, although I would use a header if you can afford it. 

Awesome, your project has gotten me juiced, and now that I've found some of the parts for cheap I might have to do it. Too bad OBDI blocks are no where to be found near me.
Hmm, if I got a header though it would have to be a 16v one. Wouldn't those be made for the shorter block. Or are 16v 2.0 the same height?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

The height issue is a valid one. I figure since the stock downpipe and manifold work that a header would also work, but then again they are much bigger and could cause issues.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Yeah, the "tall" block is 15mm taller, so that may be an issue. Maybe TT will start making some headers for these kinds of swaps


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_Yeah, the "tall" block is 15mm taller, so that may be an issue. Maybe TT will start making some headers for these kinds of swaps









I think it is only 9.5-10mm or .200"-.250"
Not that big of difference.
You can rock the Mk2 16V header


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Can't you just port a stock manifold and get some pretty good performance out of it or would the make the inner wall of the manifold to thin and allow it to crack when it reaches high temps?
Well I am going to be installing my motor into the car some time next week I already have the interrior stripped and old harness out, I'll have to get pictures if I can, just sucks stopping and taken pics when your in the middle of your progress. Even though I'm glad that there are those selected few that have the patience to do so and give valued information to share with others.
I'm just going to rock the stg ll for now until I can properly build the 16v on the OBD1 block and buy and build a proper transmission to hold the extra power, I'm done with weak O2O'S 
Andy let's get some video next week. see you soon.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

Bah! Got a speeding ticket tonight. 53 in a 40 zone...or 53 in a speedtrap where it goes from 55 to 40 to 30 in about 100 feet. Ok, just had to vent a bit, first ticket in 6 years and total bs if you ask me. At least the cop was very nice and didn't ticket me for the burnt out tail light, overly loud exhaust or um supercharger under the hood(if it's illegal or not I don't know)... not to mention the fact that he didn't ask me for the insurance card that is currently sitting on my desk and not in the car.
Oh, but the car is running good, aside from a leaking radiator which JonVWluver has so kindly offered to sell me for cheap. 
Drive safe everyone.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

That sucks to hear. I got pulled over on my trip to Georgia for "following to Closely" I was following my roomate back







He gave me a warning because I pulled out the "I'm on my way back to Ft. Gordon.." plus the National Guard plate..







I turned my car off immeadiatley though. I didn't want to give him a reason to follow me even more.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I think it is only 9.5-10mm or .200"-.250"
Not that big of difference.
You can rock the Mk2 16V header 








16mm taller (236 vs. 220mm), some 16v headers will work fine.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

See you on the dyno this weekend!


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I'm excited to see these numbers! Too bad I have to wait till March.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

This weekend should be fun as long as we don't get snowed in. I'm hearing rumors of a snow storm in the PNW. I'm installing my snow tires today and have been contemplating running them on the dyno. I may just bring my other wheels along for the fronts.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I'm doing the same thing, snow tires with my street tires in the back.








Puck clutches and lsd's do great in the snow


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

hey andy when you get a chance give me a call - im ready to install my lysholm and i need to find out what all updates im missing since this was the first kit... 425 754 1591


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

I tried calling that number but I got Jim from Comcast. I'll be out until 9:30 so either im me or I'll try to call tomorow.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I tried calling that number but I got Jim from Comcast. I'll be out until 9:30 so either im me or I'll try to call tomorow. 

I tried the same #, same msg. for Jim


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

When's the magic happening> Today or tomorrow?





























John, are gonna dyno your car too? That way you have a non-16v stage three chart?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

We are going to the dyno in about an hour. Should be fun. I'll keep you posted. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

The dyno went so well!!! I'll post the dyno chart up when I get access to a scanner, but I believe it was over 220 whp on pump gas with a torque curve that will blow your mind.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Andy,
Don't bother posting the dyno chart.
Go shoot a video burning 2nd and 3rd gear,
and include a speedo shot of ~80-120mph and post that. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









-Jeff


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I tried the same #, same msg. for Jim









weird, well my other number is 253 444 8315, just got it fixed. Hopefully i can catch up with you guys.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_The dyno went so well!!! I'll post the dyno chart up when I get access to a scanner, but I believe it was over 220 whp on pump gas with a torque curve that will blow your mind.
















SOMEONE GET THIS MAN A SCANNER!!!!!!!!


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

Take a freakin pic of the damn thing. Whats the big deal?


----------



## Venkman (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_Take a freakin pic of the damn thing. Whats the big deal?

yea come on whats takin so long?








and where are those vids?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (TSMJetta)*

I'm on it...I should have the files any day now.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I'm on it...I should have the files any day now.

NOW DAMNIT!


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

looks like someone most be using carbon paper to make copies and still working with a 14.4 modem, lol


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_looks like someone most be using carbon paper to make copies and still working with a 14.4 modem, lol

That someone would be the owner of the shop that did the dyno. I'm still waiting on him to send me the best run. 
If all else fails I'll scan the crappy printout of one of the lower power runs and just tell you that my vtec wasn't working or something.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

no video???


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

I have a video and will post it asap. The sound alone is insane. Nothing like a supercharged 16v at full trot from 3 feet away. It makes my other dyno run look tame and boring.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

hey you need to come help me put my car back together - i got some $$ for ya if you help me out


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

Thats pretty tempting, I may have a day or two available next week. 
Hit me up in a few days when I know my schedule.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Thats pretty tempting, I may have a day or two available next week. 
Hit me up in a few days when I know my schedule. 

sounds good i have sundays and mondays off but im normally home by 5-6ish daily


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

So here is the dyno chart everyone bugged me for. 
227whp/ 216wtq with stock exhaust manifold, cams and the 55mm pulley. I think there is more power available too since we didn't rev it all that hard. I'm thinking if I rev it to 7500 I'll gain another 10-20 hp. I may even throw in a smaller pulley and scare myself. 
It's so damn fast for a 2.0l, I seriously bet that I can take a 300whp turbo 4 cylinder.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

HOLY BALLS BATMAN


----------



## memoryred gti (Oct 24, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif NICE BMG!


----------



## 75rusty (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_It's so damn fast for a 2.0l, I seriously bet that I can take a 300whp turbo 4 cylinder. 









oh really...


----------



## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Not to pop your balloon but no way could you make much more if any more HP. The way the torque was dropping, you pretty much stopped the dyno at your peak. 
Also, your torque curve is lacking from what Ive seen other lysholm powered cars put out. You only have 200lb/ft or more for ~1500 rpm's. You also make over 200 whp for 1500 rpm's. 
Cams, better exhaust, better intake manifold and head work would be things Id look in to.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*

It's still pretty potent. I mean swap in the smaller pulley cams etc and it will be a screamer.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_It's still pretty potent. I mean swap in the smaller pulley cams etc and it will be a screamer. 

I agree Andy, you have some more power to extract out of this set up.
However I have driven this car and it is easy to get hung up on the peak number, then you drive it. The car is wicked fast with allot of torque under the curve. I'd run any turbo powered 300+whp four cylinder into the ground with this curve and put money on the table to back it up. Read my sig








Good job Andy, looks great!


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

John do you have a dyno for the stg 3


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*

I'd be curious to see the chart of a 8v stage 3 car. I want to see how the torque curves compare. I may do my swap later than sooner now. But still... AWESOME NUMBERS!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_I'd be curious to see the chart of a 8v stage 3 car. I want to see how the torque curves compare. I may do my swap later than sooner now. But still... AWESOME NUMBERS!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

give me about a month or so and ill post up numbers on my g60 (pg) counterflow block with a 53mm pulley and frontmount for ya.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (75rusty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *75rusty* »_
oh really...









It's pretty darn quick either way.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JonVWluver* »_John do you have a dyno for the stg 3

It will be posted soon


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*

Did you have any problems with the 16v fuel rail...........? Mine leaks and i cant figure it out..It's like the injectors are cocked and fuel leaks right from the top


----------



## 75rusty (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_








It's pretty darn quick either way. 

we shall ninja fight at test n' tune then...


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Greengt1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Greengt1* »_Did you have any problems with the 16v fuel rail...........? Mine leaks and i cant figure it out..It's like the injectors are cocked and fuel leaks right from the top

The 16v rail is hard to set, but doesn't leak a bit. Make sure that all of your injector cups are at the same height and you pushed down the rail as far as it goes.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (75rusty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *75rusty* »_
we shall ninja fight at test n' tune then...









Wait till you see my nunchuck skillz.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I'm still waiting to see/HEAR some video skills


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

You will see video shortly. I must say that it sounds absolutely evil.


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_You will see video shortly. I must say that it sounds absolutely evil. 

Bump for evil!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

garth


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (g60vw)*

Video is up. As you can see my entire car is insanely dirty due to driving 500 miles in crappy snow conditions. The intake pipe was routed differently for this run to check how the maf positioning changes the idle. 
Enjoy:
http://www.sixspeedmedia.com/g...o.mov 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 9:06 PM 1-22-2007_


----------



## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

wow that is one loud car...


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (GTIRACER2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIRACER2.0t* »_wow that is one loud car...

I second that opinion!!!!! Nice one, Andy!


----------



## Venkman (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

Absolutley fantastic http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
We need some vids of it in action on the streets


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: (TSMJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSMJetta* »_Absolutley fantastic http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
We need some vids of it in action on the streets








 
......eating up civics and spitting them out the back!! I bet that car just rips.
BMG- what tranny are you running?what code?
Garth


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (g60vw)*

O2a tranny, I believe its an AYL, but I can't remember.


----------



## Greengt1 (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I cant hear the video!!!


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Greengt1)*

Do you have the latest version of quicktime?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

That spooled the dyno up pretty darn quick, sounds sweet to me


----------



## SC VENTO III (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (GTIRACER2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIRACER2.0t* »_wow that is one loud car...

very nice andy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hubbzVW (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (SC VENTO III)*

Thank you for the eargasm... Very nice... A drive by or two would be nice to see as well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## boostinvdubb (Aug 9, 2006)

*Re: (hubbzVW)*

HEY I BEEN THINKING BOUT DA SAME PROJECT BUT IM A LIL CONFUSED ON WHAT WIRING HARNESS TO USE WIT DIS SETUP. SOME PPL TOLD ME GO WIT A G60 HARNESS AND THROTTLE BODY, WHICH ONE DID U USE??


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (boostinvdubb)*

Its the factory harness ecu and throttle body. All that I did was extend a few of the sensor harnesses so they can reach a bit further.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

i forgot you were running a stock set up, thats crazy


----------



## Bryan127 (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

I just read this entire thread again....by far the best and most interesting project I have seen.
I to do something like this soon, if I can....never thought I'd say this...sell my VR for a 2.slow.
Bump for a great idea.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a2coupe2a_* »_i forgot you were running a stock set up, thats crazy

Haha... "stock"


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *a2coupe2a_* »_i forgot you were running a stock set up, thats crazy

M5.9 Rocks under boost, the perfect system!
Eh, thanks Jeff
My car is running 17psi smooth as OEM and perfect AFR and did It tell you all I love my MkIII daily driver








260+ SC HP on pump gas is pure driving ecstasy.
Now if I could only keep third gear traction even with the diff.
Repeatedly schooled the crap out of a 350 hp STI yesterday








Sweet project Andy, thanks for your trust in BBM


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

What kind of cams are you planing to run? I have breifly looked for boost cams that have very little or no overlap but can't find any..... =/ is there any out there or do you have to get them specially made for a 16v?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (gofastr110)*

There aren't too many cam setups for boosted 16v's out there. Some people do a euro intake or modified exahust cam for the intake cam and leave the exhaust cam stock. The other way to do it is to break up a set of cams and run something like 288 intake/272 exhaust or something similar that is a bit milder like 272/260. I believe that the split duration really helps these supercharged cars out, but since I haven't actually done anything with them take my advice lightly. 
I do plan on doing cams in the future, but I will probably do a header and 2.5" exahust system first.


----------



## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Catcams used to make a 16v set with moderate duration and big lift. Don't remember what the LSA was but with a Kent internal cam gear you could play with the overlap ad nauseum. I reckon you could do the same on the TT Street set too with good results. A guy in my town with a 3xx whp 16vT gained some 30 whp by installing the Autotech 262 cam set.
How much headroom do you have with RPM? Is there a max speed that the twin screw can reach? The thing sounds like it's going to explode already







What is the ratio of rotor speed to crank speed right now?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Mr Black)*

I'm guessing I could go about 500rpm more before I would start to worry about the charger. Ideally it would hold the 220ftlbs of torque a bit longer. Turbos will gain a bit more horsepower because 10psi on the new cams may be the same flow as 12psi on the old cams, yet the wastegate on the turbo is the same. Its not the same with the supercharger since it pretty much pumps as much air in as it can and doesn't rely on psi to control the flow. 
High lift/short duration seems to be the ticket with these setups.


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

yea.... thats what i was thinkin bout the cams.... i really could find any cams made just for boosted 16v... i figured, like you said, look around for a mild duration cam with good lift (intake and exahust but most likely not the same duration) and them grab an adjustable cam gear for the belt side and the chain side and just dial them in to wear it runs hardest.... of course it will take alot of playing around with... but ive seen and heard of cams making a big difference on forced induction engines just because of the lack of overlap.....
but as you said BMG, i would go with an exhaust first and see how much you gain that way....
EDIT: also does anyone have a link or sumthin to stock and/or aftermarket cam numbers?

_Modified by gofastr110 at 2:46 PM 1-26-2007_


_Modified by gofastr110 at 2:46 PM 1-26-2007_


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: (gofastr110)*

guess nobody does..... darn =[


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Ever since I proved it was possible, BBM released a kit that contains all of the parts. I will, however, make a complete list and post it up later. 

Did you get that list setup? its not the first page is it? I though there be more things to get.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ChinkyVdub)*

Hmm, I'm pretty sure that I did make the list. I must not have posted it. I'll look through my files and see what I can come up with.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Here is a list of parts that I used for this swap. 
Most of this is from memory so I hope I didn't leave anything out. 
The list is somewhat different if going turbo or N/A
BBM has all of these parts packaged for each application so this list is kind of redundant. 
Items with "*" are not required.
-16v head 1.8 or 2.0 (1.8 is better)
-Adjustable cam gear (taller block changes tdc a few degrees)
-ABA metal head gasket
-16v exhaust manifold
-16v ARP head studs*
-Scirocco intake manifold w/ cold start rail machined off and tapped for iat sensor
-BBM 16v fuel rail w/ mk3/4 fpr adaptor
-Digi injector cups
-440cc injectors
-16v plug wires
-NGK BKR7 Spark plugs (these seem to work nicely)
-Modified 16v distributor (aba guts)
-BBM 16v throttle body-3" hose adaptor
-BBM FMIC kit modified (slightly)
-BBM mk3 supercharger kit w/ cast outlet
-ABF timing belt
-16v timing belt tensioner
-16v crank gear
-Modified 16v im shaft gear
-BBM dizzy gizzy
-Modified crank accessory pulley
-NEW crank bolt 
-ARP Rod bolts*
-BBM Forged pistons w/ 16v reliefs*
-BBM front coolant flange
-BBM side coolant flange 
-BBM Block off plate (crankcase)
-Custom SS coolant u bend w/bypass tube(s/c only)(I believe that BBM makes these now as well)
-16v mid coolant hose cut short to fit 
-16v upper heater hose
-16v coolant sensor (the one thats in the head)
-BBM ABA 16v supercharged stage 3 software

_Modified by BMGFifty at 4:26 PM 2-5-2007_


_Modified by BMGFifty at 4:57 PM 2-5-2007_


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

nice list this by far is the most complete ive seen.
total cost=?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ChinkyVdub)*



ChinkyVdub said:


> total cost=?[/QUOTE
> Entirely too much. I would say that I spent a little over 10k in a year. Could be more.
> Had I not had any of the issues like broken o2a's, blown head gaskets, self machining 020 diff....etc it would have been much much cheaper.
> 
> BBM sells the conversion kit for $699 so in theory it could have been super cheap in comparison.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_


ChinkyVdub said:


> total cost=?[/QUOTE
> Entirely too much. I would say that I spent a little over 10k in a year. Could be more.
> Had I not had any of the issues like broken o2a's, blown head gaskets, self machining 020 diff....etc it would have been much much cheaper.
> 
> BBM sells the conversion kit for $699 so in theory it could have been super cheap in comparison.






ChinkyVdub said:


> man thats like a new car...Im trying to plan this out right and take my time. great write up btw. I might have to call you for advisement.


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

WOW! lots of stuff.....nice write up.... helps me in my planning stage


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (gofastr110)*

I'm glad you're doing this first.








I'm not going to 18 psi till the diff gets installed.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

andy i need a hand getting my lysholm in, the kit i have came with no instructions







. Im ready to hook it up so i can throw the block in.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Info on the distributor...*

I have been asked a couple of times now for more detail on the distributor window swap so I thought I would post more detailed instructions here.
For those of you who know what I'm talking about please feel free to let me know if there are any errors or anything I left out.









The distributor is fairly simple to figure out. 
There are two things that need to be changed in order for it to work properly.
The 16v distributor normally comes with 4 shutter windows on the hall sensor. 
The ABA Motronic only requires one. 
The 16v turns counterclockwise, the 8v turns clockwise.
On the regular 8v distributor the shutter window will have just passed the pickup just as the rotor reaches tdc mark.
What you have to do is align the single window on the 16v distributor the same way. What makes this tricky for most people is the counterclockwise rotation of the 16v distributor. 
What you do is point the rotor towards the #1 tdc mark and then put the shutter window in the position where it is just past the sensor. You 
will want the trailing edge of the window to line up with the edge of the pickup assembly and not just the metal bit. 








To do this you will need to remove the shutter windows from both distrbutors. 
The 8v distributor has a pin that holds the drive gear on. You will need to drive this out so that the gear comes off (this can be difficult 
since it is peaned over). Next the shutter and shaft come out. The shutter will then need to be pressed off the shaft. 
The next step is to remove the retaining spring and clip from the 16v distributor and remove the assembly from the 16v distributor. 
Once the shutter window is removed you should swap the actual pickups since the 8v part is a bit larger and will rub on the 16v pickup. 
You should then align the shutter window so that it is just past the pickup and then press it back together. The shaft is splined so the 
alignment should be fairly easy. Press it all back together, reassemble and your good to go.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (gofastr110)*

ttt


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (BMGFifty)*

that is a good write up BMG...


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (gofastr110)*

got anything new BMG? thread is starting to thin out


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (gofastr110)*

Nothing much is new with the car. It continues to run flawlessly and is still very fun to drive. I forget how much torque it has sometimes. When I drive my friends cars I tend to shift way too early and bogg their engines.


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (BMGFifty)*

hahah nice..... well thats good to here that everything is running good...... sadly im still in the saveing money and planing stage..... did you every get that exhaust put on?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (gofastr110)*

I have been avoiding spending any money on the car for the last month. I will eventually get a whole new exhaust system etc, but for now I'm very happy with the car. Stay tuned though, because I may have something coming up soon, although I don't know for sure. Monies are tough little buggers to come by.


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (BMGFifty)*

yea i feel ya on the money issue... but i check this thread everyday almost so if you post sumthin ill see it for sure good luck on that money issue


----------



## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (gofastr110)*

since there are no new mods.... lets see more rockin vids.






















they make great BBM advertisements http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (djpj06)*

Alright, I'll go do a 2nd gear burnout and post it.







No, seriously it will do it with ease. I scared JonVWlover the other day when I took him for a ride. Actually, most people who ride in it are surprised and think it has more hp than the dyno shows, even people who are used to high hp cars. Torque is a deceptive little bugger.


----------



## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (BMGFifty)*

cant wait


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (djpj06)*

i second that! cant wait either


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (gofastr110)*

so i have read through most of this thread and will go back and read the parts i skipped when i am not so tired, an i want to say how cool this is!!!!
i was going back and forth between a setup like this and a turbo. reading this has made up my mind and i am going to start sorcing a 16v head and saving money for the bbm 16v kit and the charger!!
great build and great write up!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (mk3gti-usa)*

Thanks!


----------



## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (mk3gti-usa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3gti-usa* »_so i have read through most of this thread and will go back and read the parts i skipped when i am not so tired, an i want to say how cool this is!!!!
i was going back and forth between a setup like this and a turbo. reading this has made up my mind and i am going to start sorcing a 16v head and saving money for the bbm 16v kit and the charger!!
great build and great write up!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
















i have to agree, although i will stay 8v. your write ups and JBETZ customer service have swayed my to the twin screw side of the force.








hopefully i will be "screwed" by late june


_Modified by djpj06 at 6:52 PM 2-25-2007_


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (djpj06)*

Hmm... So what's the latest I hear about this 240hp now???


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (Zorba2.0)*

/\
/ \
l
l
l http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: Info on the distributor... (djpj06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *djpj06* »_
i have to agree, although i will stay 8v. your write ups and JBETZ customer service have swayed my to the twin screw side of the force.








hopefully i will be "screwed" by late june

_Modified by djpj06 at 6:52 PM 2-25-2007_

aaaaagggghhhhhh the stage 1 kit just went up another $100


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_Hmm... So what's the latest I hear about this 240hp now???









300hp soon.... 


_Modified by BMGFifty at 9:16 PM 3-6-2007_


----------



## Venkman (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: (Zorba2.0) (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
300hp soon.... 

_Modified by BMGFifty at 9:16 PM 3-6-2007_


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: (Zorba2.0) (BMGFifty)*

cant wait to see them numbers....


----------



## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: (Zorba2.0) (gofastr110)*

european intake cam ftw
(thats what i ran on my setup)


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (Zorba2.0) (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
300hp soon.... 


Please elaborate. I know you just didn't find them, lol.
22 psi, 30 degrees of advance, euro cam....








I just put on the 14 psi pulley today and tomorrow I'm throwing it out for the 18.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*ReZorba2.0)*

I'm thinking of doing a 50 shot...yeah I know its cheating, but hey, power is power right? I also have some other super secret things in the works, but I can't say for sure right now....or I'd have to kill you.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (BMGFifty)*

Super secret C-16?


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (BMGFifty)*

then go ahead and tell me then come kill me......
but you have to find me first









let us know when you figure it out BMG


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (gofastr110)*

I have a story for you all today. I was minding my own business when a Saleen (stickered) mustang decided the my rear bumper was an awesome place for his front bumper to be. I decided that it wasn't the case and was able to make some distance between the two of us. I guess power is good for something. 
^^^ I modified this story slightly as to not mention illegal speeds or such.








In the end the stang driver gave me a thumbsup and I went on my merry way. Not bad for 4 cylinders vs 8


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (BMGFifty)*

haha, nice! 
Off topic but, funny story about a Saleen Focus I saw in Georgia. I was sitting in my car and this Focus with a huge wing and body kit pulls in. I've seen this car plenty of times in my parking lot but never saw it driving. This thing sports the typical Saleen body kit and has dual exhaust. I roll down my window and hear this massive, deep growl. WTF a V8??? in a Focus? Haha, nope... there was a Z06 behind it that had some sweet cams and exhaust!! Fooled me at first.


----------



## gofastr110 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (Zorba2.0)*

hahaha i have had that happened b4.... matter of fact it happened today... i was at work and and srt4 was across the street backing out of the parking lot.... and then at that same instant a ws6 firebird revs up around the corner of my building and i was like "huh???" but then i realized thats wut it was.....
but back to BMG's story power to weight makes a big difference..... i mean i hate to mention the name but i have seen billons of hondas well, imports for that matter whip up on some V8's...... and its funny to see the V8 driver's face.... they are like "wut the f***!" hahaha


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I have a story for you all today. I was minding my own business when a Saleen (stickered) mustang decided the my rear bumper was an awesome place for his front bumper to be. I decided that it wasn't the case and was able to make some distance between the two of us. I guess power is good for something. 
^^^ I modified this story slightly as to not mention illegal speeds or such.








In the end the stang driver gave me a thumbsup and I went on my merry way. Not bad for 4 cylinders vs 8

and think of how much more fuel the V8 used


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (mk3gti-usa)*

I was thinking about this today...

A brand new mustang weighs in at 4450 lbs. Stock they are like 240hp or the GT's are 330hp at the crank... so lets say, 300 to the wheels and lets say a 190lb 40+ behind the wheel.
My Jetta weighed in at 2750 with me in it. 190hp to the wheels.
Mustang GT 4450+190/300=15.4
Jetta GT 2750/190=14.47


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

Adam, you forgot that the Mustang actually weighs 4455...gotta add 5lbs for the mullett and the Nascar jacket.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

LoL nice!








I thought about though when I saw a chick driving one, plate said DVLDOG, she getting on it hard too. 
BTW How's the kit doing? I really want to do the 16v swap newt year.. gotta save up though. I might be buying another charger


----------



## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_I was thinking about this today...

A brand new mustang weighs in at 4450 lbs. Stock they are like 240hp or the GT's are 330hp at the crank... so lets say, 300 to the wheels and lets say a 190lb 40+ behind the wheel.


Off topic, but where the hell are you getting these numbers from? A new Mustang S197 probably weighs 3500-3600#, makes 300 flywheel hp which translates to about 250-260 rwhp before mods.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: ReZorba2.0) (Mr Black)*

I looked at the Base Curb Weight on a Mustang inside the door at a show last month.
Haha, WoW, nevermind, I must have been looking at the GVWR. You were right, the GT's are 3600lbs

_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 1:42 PM 3-14-2007_


_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 1:44 PM 3-14-2007_


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I was talking with my brother about your motor build(F***ing sweet may I add) since we're gonna drop his 2.0 16v 9A into the 80' rocco autocrosser this year, and the wife drives our 94 golf and he also has an 87' GLI to part out, anyway, his question is why didn't you just drop in a 9A and put the screws to it? The only reason I could come up with is that the ABA has forged internals and I'm not sure of the 9A's. I think he got the 9A from a salvage yard for less then the cost of the kit. Just wondering. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ps2375)*

9a's don't have the provision for a crank position sensor that the factory ecu requires to work. The ABA also has longer rods. If you were to run it on standalone or digi 1 you could use a 9a.


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

ah, keeping factory ECU system can save some $$. thanks for the reply and info. I told my brother, depending on how far he wants to take this motor, a switch to standalone from the CIS could def help in the tuning area. but it is just for auto-x/hillclimbs, not very street-able with the four puck clutch in it.







We both would love to see your car run around some cones. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ps2375)*

While I haven't autocrossed the car reciently, I have a feeling that the extra power and torque would increase the lap times drastically by allowing me to use only 3rd gear. 
Here is a link to another lysholmed VW running the course. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2139537


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I was going to autocross in Bremerton but my set up started to make some weird noises and I am afraid to push it knowing I just installed all this stuff and a part of me wants to make sure it is not going to fail on me in any way first and then I will go out and pull on it and stretch and yank and ect. yeah you get the idea. I still have a cell being thrown on my car though, engine light, well guess i'll figure it out sooner or later.


----------



## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

A guy in a mustang forum weighed his 2005 GT with full tank of gas at a truck scale. 3522 lbs. Sounds about right from other numbers I have seen. Number in door is GVWR. That is gross vehicle weight, which includes towing capacity. You must subtract tow capability. That number should also be on sticker.
My goal with a lysholm (8v ) is 200 plus hp and torque.
But in an 1800 lbs car (currently 1780 without charger), it will will be quite nice.








Love your car. Wish I could afford a 16v LOL


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (fast84gti)*

GVWR is gross vehicle weight of car and cargo. not towing capacity. towing capacity is usually much more than how much the vehicle can carry on board. for example: my truck has a GVWR of something like 8600lbs (cannot remember exactly, but i can carry almost 4000lbs in the truck plus the weight of the truck itself) and is rated to tow 10,300lbs (that is total trailor weight, not including the truck)
sorry, off topic, but i wanted to clear that up


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

I have always thought of putting on my car one of those 5000 gross stickers that some commercial vehicles have. Maybe it would be one of those new styles. We'll call it commercial stylz.


----------



## mk3gti-usa (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


















or you could do the - LIC#696969


----------



## RabbitFink (Mar 24, 2007)

*Re: (mk3gti-usa)*

i'm down, i'll put a hazardous flammable material sticker on mine. And some of those over-the-front-window trucker lights. OHHHH YEAH! 
Sweet buildup btw, that dyno vid made me soil myself.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (RabbitFink)*

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KE9er8silKU 
I uploaded the 16v dyno vid to youtube since my other one was already on there. I figured the youtubbers would get a kick out of it. 
Oh, and a little stupid graphic I made just for fun.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Kabinotar)*

Out of curiosity since the subject of AutoX has come up what would a Lysholmed 16V ABA fall into for classes just from the engine mods alone? Street Prepared or Street Modified?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Neckromacr)*

I believe it is street modified, but I'm not totally sure of the rules. All I can gather is that the boost x displacement must be less than the regulated displacement for the class. So a 2.0l must not exceed what a N/A 3.0l would produce. 
Rules can be found here http://scca.com/_filelibrary/F...s.pdf


----------



## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

yeah I've been reading through it, and I'm only just getting into AutoX. But its not terribly clear but I was thinking it was SM, just didn't know if anybody with more experince might know better.


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (Neckromacr)*

Well if your new to the autox then it does not matter what you have done to your car, for the first year your in the Nov. class. which is about 8/9 races a year,unless you travel from place to place.


----------



## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*

I know I'll be in the novice class this year, I don't have the Lysholm either I was just curious as to what it might be classed as once I do.


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (Neckromacr)*

So you will still be novice no matter what mods you have on your car.after the first year things will then change.


----------



## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*

It'll also probably be more than a year before I can get a BBM kit, and I was simply curious, so does anyone know what it would be classed for the non-novices?


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (Neckromacr)*

This will tell you just about all you need to know. Rules can be found here http://scca.com/_filelibrary/F...s.pdf


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

Andy almost ready to race me on the track???? lol


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*

I looked back through the whole thread but didn't find the dyno numbers until you posted the youtube vid. 227/217 is pretty damn good.
Are you going to any east coast shows this year? I'd like to talk to you about your setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Until then, MORE BOOST!


----------



## vr60903 (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

nice work, but i would have used the gti intake and moved the fpr out the way. charger to intake shorter, less pipping,less leaks.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (vr60903)*

Ah, but where would the intercooler go?
Thanks for the kind words. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (PBWB)*

I'm strictly on the west coast at the moment. I would love to take the car and see the country a bit more.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I heard there's this really stinky town called Englishtown that has some nice scenery in July


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

Just got one of these for the grille.


----------



## Kabinotar (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Sweet little emblem. I was thinking of getting the 16v emblem for my side moldings when I get my conversion done.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Kabinotar)*

I put a GLI badge on mine. I figured, if they built a MKIII GLI, a turbo ABF would be it.


----------



## BonnyDub2.0 (Oct 15, 2004)

This build has me sooo tempted to tear away from the turbo i'm going to buy....but I don't think i could ever pull myself away from my SRI i just acquired. I've seen rear-mounted dual lysholms....is there really a way to make this a reality with my SRI (with just one charger of course..not 2). JBETZ, show me the road and i just might follow it!!


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BonnyDub2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BonnyDub2.0* »_This build has me sooo tempted to tear away from the turbo i'm going to buy....but I don't think i could ever pull myself away from my SRI i just acquired. I've seen rear-mounted dual lysholms....is there really a way to make this a reality with my SRI (with just one charger of course..not 2). JBETZ, show me the road and i just might follow it!! 

Maybe this will help you decide. I will personally guarantee you and back this up that there is not any turbo kit or turbo available that you can bolt on an 8V VW engine that will outperform our supercharger. In fact you will blow the turbo powered 8V away!


----------



## BonnyDub2.0 (Oct 15, 2004)

forgot to mention, the sri is for the 16v engine, and i've already got the head and half the gaskets as well.


----------



## BonnyDub2.0 (Oct 15, 2004)

saw your dyno on youtube bmg...sounded awesome.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (BonnyDub2.0)*

Thanks, that audio quality on you tube doesn't do it justice.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Maybe this will help you decide. I will personally guarantee you and back this up that there is not any turbo kit or turbo available that you can bolt on an 8V VW engine that will outperform our supercharger. In fact you will blow the turbo powered 8V away!

I cant wait till I can do this again. I'm shooting for around 220 whp. I had 197 with the 12psi pulley, so with 18 psi pulley and better tune does this sound about right?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

You would be at or around 210-215whp with that setup. Once the 8v head is out of its efficency range it just hates making hp. I haven't seen many 8v's over 215 whp, but then again the torque curve is fat. It is actually a bit fatter down low than my setup.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Haha, well you know what John says.. "Torque wins races..."


----------



## rabbitmangti (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Maybe this will help you decide. I will personally guarantee you and back this up that there is not any turbo kit or turbo available that you can bolt on an 8V VW engine that will outperform our supercharger. In fact you will blow the turbo powered 8V away!


WOW once again a very bold statment....I've seen many stock 8v turbo cars making 250+ whp and audi 10v cars making almost 500. I just dont see how you think your charger will beat "any turbo or turbo kit". You guys bringing any cars to waterfest this year? I will fly anywhere in this country to see a 16v or 8v with the 2087 charger making 300 hp with just the charger, no fake bottle hp.










_Modified by rabbitmangti at 7:08 PM 4-13-2007_


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (rabbitmangti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitmangti* »_

WOW once again a very bold statment....I've seen many stock 8v turbo cars making 250+ whp and audi 10v cars making almost 500. I just dont see how you think your charger will beat "any turbo or turbo kit". You guys bringing any cars to waterfest this year? I will fly anywhere in this country to see a 16v or 8v with the 2087 charger making 300 hp with just the charger, no fake bottle hp.









_Modified by rabbitmangti at 7:08 PM 4-13-2007_

Sounds like a perfect episode of "Pinks" ... Supercharged VW vs. Turbocharged; Lose the race and lose your ride.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (rabbitmangti)*

Notice that he said turbo kit as in production. The torque curve of the 2087 is hugely impressive on an 8v, even more so than my 16v.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

Yes bring your 8V turbo to the West, I'll whooop it on the 1/4 mile track and the road course.
And no I do not need liquid hp to smoke any 8V turbo with our Supercharger.
I'll gladly help pay to get you here.
The cars need to be equal weight and on the same tires.
Bring a 1.8L or the 2.0L doesn't matter.
Bring it, your car and your money so I can take it all!


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Yes bring your 8V turbo to the West, I'll whooop it on the 1/4 mile track and the road course.
And no I do not need liquid hp to smoke any 8V turbo with our Supercharger.
I'll gladly help pay to get you here.
The cars need to be equal weight and on the same tires.
Bring a 1.8L or the 2.0L doesn't matter.
Bring it, your car and your money so I can take it all!










:subscribed:
opens popcorn
sits comfortably
waits
Where IS that Pinks guy when you need him LOL
(I have actually had my A2 GLI G60 Supercharged and Turbocharged, but I am staying out of this fight).










_Modified by papichulo7 at 4:32 PM 4-13-2007_


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (papichulo7)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papichulo7* »_
Where IS that Pinks guy when you need him LOL

_Modified by papichulo7 at 4:32 PM 4-13-2007_

I think he's out making an ass of himself on a motorcycle again, lol.. what an idiot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gth09KEdkQ


_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 5:21 PM 4-13-2007_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

I have installed and owned a few turbo powered cars over the years. One of my Corrados is running a GT30R 2.2L 16V
This Scirocco was making about 230 whp and 240 wt
With a best et of 11.6
This power level regularly whoooped up on Honda cars with 300-400+ hp at the 1/4 mile track.
Oh this is on bone stock G60 PG with Digi 1 management, no head porting or internal modifications done.
My daily driver Mk3 2.0L Supercharged at only 15psi smokes 300-350 hp chipped STI's here in town on a regular basis








Enjoy the video, it is one of my old school favorites.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med....mpeg


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I will personally guarantee you and back this up that there is not any turbo kit or turbo available that you can bolt on an 8V VW engine that will outperform our supercharger. In fact you will blow the turbo powered 8V away!

I bolted a turbo to my car and made 258whp with an automatic tranny and a slipping torque converter.








Or maybe you remember eddie seabolds 2.08vT. 11.65 ring a bell?

_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Yes bring your 8V turbo to the West, I'll whooop it on the 1/4 mile track and the road course.
And no I do not need liquid hp to smoke any 8V turbo with our Supercharger.
I'll gladly help pay to get you here.
The cars need to be equal weight and on the same tires.
Bring a 1.8L or the 2.0L doesn't matter.
Bring it, your car and your money so I can take it all!










If I had the money I'd take that bet.
edit: Is that guy's scirroco around still?


_Modified by PBWB at 6:16 PM 4-13-2007_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (PBWB)*

Of course I remember his car, oh 300+ claimed hp running the same ET as our under 250 hp








Yep, we used to race him and beat him from time to time with this Scirocco. 
He did every trick under the sun to go this fast and as I recall it didn't go this fast very many times or for very long.
Not to mention the P&P'd cylinder heads that he ate up.
We ran this Scirocco well over 200 passes with a BONE STOCK engine. The only thing that went was the clutch. This car has long since been retired. 
I have a street trimmed and Supercharged MKIII GTI that is ready to race against any equal MkIII with the turbo handicap installed.
I'm holding an 8V 1/4 mile shoot out just South of Portland this summer, details to follow. You beat our Supercharger with another Mk3 at equal weight and tires running a turbo and I will give you $1000 cash money baby.










_Modified by JBETZ at 4:09 PM 4-13-2007_


----------



## BonnyDub2.0 (Oct 15, 2004)

the torture!!! don't make me drop my 16v plans damn you!!! for a sweet...sweet....lysholm!! great thread...hope bmg doesn't mind.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Of course I remember his car, oh 300+ claimed hp running the same ET as our under 250 hp








Yep, we used to race him and beat him from time to time with this Scirocco. 
He did every trick under the sun to go this fast and as I recall it didn't go this fast very many times or for very long.
Not to mention the P&P'd cylinder heads that he ate up.
We ran this Scirocco well over 200 passes with a BONE STOCK engine. The only thing that went was the clutch. This car has long since been retired. 
I have a street trimmed and Supercharged MKIII GTI that is ready to race against any equal MkIII with the turbo handicap installed.
I'm holding an 8V 1/4 mile shoot out just South of Portland this summer, details to follow. You beat our Supercharger with another Mk3 at equal weight and tires running a turbo and I will give you $1000 cash money baby.









_Modified by JBETZ at 4:09 PM 4-13-2007_

what if i beat you in a mk2 with an 8v and your lysholm








can i get like 50 bucks or somethin


----------



## BonnyDub2.0 (Oct 15, 2004)

you'd probly get a handshake


----------



## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_
I think he's out making an ass of himself on a motorcycle again, lol.. what an idiot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gth09KEdkQ

_Modified by Zorba2.0 at 5:21 PM 4-13-2007_

Yeah, I heard about this episode and then saw it for myself recently. Don't want to laugh at someone's demise or injury ... but his ego did need a bit of a Reality Check









To the OP: Sorry, don't mean to threadjack ... 
Now back to regular programming


----------



## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Of course I remember his car, oh 300+ claimed hp running the same ET as our under 250 hp








Yep, we used to race him and beat him from time to time with this Scirocco. 
He did every trick under the sun to go this fast and as I recall it didn't go this fast very many times or for very long.
Not to mention the P&P'd cylinder heads that he ate up.
We ran this Scirocco well over 200 passes with a BONE STOCK engine. The only thing that went was the clutch. This car has long since been retired. 
I
_Modified by JBETZ at 4:09 PM 4-13-2007_

wow...nice try...the 8v was bone stock heads with autotech cam..forged internals and not much else...11.65 was the quickest in that motor...2450 pound car...
you know a bit of power to weight ratio and are a smarter guy than you portray online..you may want to think about it...
that is almost comapring ty's old rocco running 22psi of forced induction to bernd's n/a vr rabbit and bernd running more consistant, more reliable times...
you know how drag racing works..don't try and fool anyone or stroke your ego any more than you have to with these chargers...


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (BonnyDub2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BonnyDub2.0* »_you'd probly get a handshake

not like id ever actually win just felt like being a smartass


----------



## rabbitmangti (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Notice that he said turbo kit as in production. The torque curve of the 2087 is hugely impressive on an 8v, even more so than my 16v.









Notice that he said "turbo kit or turbo"...the "or turbo" is what im saying. Im not trying to start any real fights....eventhough I already have. I know this turbo vs. charger fight will go forever but no need to be that cocky about it. Everyone can fight all day if they want. All I want is a bigger charger. The 2087 is a great OE replacement for the G60. Or even to run a few lbs on a 2.0L. It just is not big enough to make big power. You all can talk about your torque curves all day, I love 'em too. But no matter what your still going to get spanked. Im just upset that I my self can't just go get a bigger charger. Whipple quit making chargers under something like 2.0L and opcon autorotor is....well what they are and BBM is the only place that can get them. All I want it a 1.16 or a 1.33L charger....I know they only rev to 12 or 13k but one could make a whole lot more power on less boost with a liiiiiittle bit bigger charger. I also dont like the idea of using something to it max at all times. I would not feel good about taking a 2087 to a track day with the 50mm pulley and drving the charger between 13-15k for an hour. I want to fix my charger for my car but I also am not going to put it back on the car with the braket it has. So then I would need to build a new one and I just dont think its worth all the work to end up with a charger that is still to small. I would love to buy a bigger charger if anyone has the insite to show me the path? But untill that day comes I will go spend half the money and still beet my best freind zorba in a race...lol sorry adam. I do feel bad since he spent thousands and my stock a4 avant can keep up with it and prolly beat it on the highway.












_Modified by rabbitmangti at 5:10 AM 4-14-2007_


----------



## dbernhoft (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Maybe this will help you decide. I will personally guarantee you and back this up that there is not any turbo kit or turbo available that you can bolt on an 8V VW engine that will outperform our supercharger. In fact you will blow the turbo powered 8V away!

For 4647 dollars it should.










part # : items : quantity : price : subtotal : 
226110254 BBM Supercharger Kit (Lysholm) MKIII 2.0L 
option: OBD2 1995-1999 $2,899.00 $2,899.00 
226110690 2.0L X-Flow Screw Compressor Stage II Upgrade 
$549.00 $549.00 
226110264 2.0L X-Flow Screw Compressor Stage III Upgrade 
$1,199.00 $1,199.00 
subtotal: $4,647.00


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (dbernhoft)*

I never guess this thread would go this direction... maybe this discussion could be taken elsewhere. 
I will say one thing, I do love leaving it in 5th while crusing around town at 20-30mph, and you can't do that with a turbo.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)




----------



## G6016VGLI (Dec 7, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
I will say one thing, I do love leaving it in 5th while crusing around town at 20-30mph, and you can't do that with a turbo.









Why would you want to







that is so hard on your transmission, not to mention your motor.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for working your engine with low oil pressure








I guess I see where you get your advice from though ... makes sense to me now


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (G6016VGLI)*

I'm not talking about going full throttle at low rpm's I mean just running around at 1500 rpm and keeping it quiet. I'm not sure how it is overly hard on the transmission since the TDI's of the era came with an o2a as well and loved to stay at low revs around town. 
I get my advice from a number of books and resources, your attempts at judging my sources are lacking. If you would like to attempt to insult me please do so after knowing who I am and what I know, otherwise you are simply speculating. I will extend you the same courtesy and not pass judgement.







to you


----------



## evil92gti (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


----------



## Neverender (Dec 23, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
I get my advice from a number of books and resources, your attempts at judging my sources are lacking. If you would like to attempt to insult me please do so after knowing who I am and what I know, otherwise you are simply speculating. I will extend you the same courtesy and not pass judgement.







to you 

yeeeeeah


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Us2bA4dr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Us2bA4dr* »_wow...nice try...the 8v was bone stock heads with autotech cam..forged internals and not much else...11.65 was the quickest in that motor...2450 pound car.

The legend known as Eddie Seabold still lives.
Still got the girdle?


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

Was or was this not a thread created for talks on the BBM kits and what some have done to make better performance or looks with this kit, There has been some really great advice and talks in this thread I would hate to see it get ruined by people and there ego trips.


----------



## rabbitmangti (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Sorry BMG







Continue Here please....
Vortex:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3183043 
Motorgeek:
http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...54814


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
It's so damn fast for a 2.0l, I seriously bet that I can take a 300whp turbo 4 cylinder. 









I'm curious how so? my turbo tq curves look exactly the same, but smoother...


----------



## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

If we want to compare apples to apples......REPOMANS full weight (?)Corrado never beat my full weight 8V turbo [email protected] was 8V PG head,t3 60 trim turbo(not super 60)2.0 60 ft.
What JBETZ is not telling you is that Scirocco (Ty's)weighs MAYBE 1500lbs!!not OVER 1800lbs.no way.......My Corrado3050lbs with me in it.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (VWAUDITEK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITEK* »_If we want to compare apples to apples......REPOMANS full weight (?)Corrado never beat my full weight 8V turbo [email protected] was 8V PG head,t3 60 trim turbo(not super 60)2.0 60 ft.
What JBETZ is not telling you is that Scirocco (Ty's)weighs MAYBE 1500lbs!!not OVER 1800lbs.no way.......My Corrado3050lbs with me in it.


John IS leaving something out... but you can't argue with the torque and available power from a lysholm.
I'm more of a turbo guy myself, seriously, I would take a turbo over any supercharger, anyday. My old 16V GTI was a monster at 8psi, never lost to anything, blown mustangs didn't stand a chance in a 1/4. But it was a stripped out early MKII with nothing in it. A full interior 8V turbo putting 250 on the ground with a modest torque curve doesn't have the holeshot to get ahead of a 200whp lysholm'd 8V. The lysholm will get him off the line, and you can't run one down in a 1/4 mile. If you run enough boost to chase him down, you don't have the traction till half-track.
It's a hard combo to fight. As soon as I get the 81 on the track, we'll see what it's got at 10psi. And, andy, you best bet if my Jetta stays in AZ for WaterWagens next year, you're going to have a hard time with my bunny.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Whats the next step? Is there a larger charger that yours that would flow more? Put some TT sport cams in it and rev it to 8k next time you dyno it, because it doesn't drop of at all even at 7k.
If I had the money I would do it, but with a 10:1 compression, then put a TT 276 or so intake cam on it and dial the cam to lower the compression. By leaving the intake open past BDC you lower the compression, but still retain the responsiveness and power delivery of 10:1.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_Whats the next step? Is there a larger charger that yours that would flow more? Put some TT sport cams in it and rev it to 8k next time you dyno it, because it doesn't drop of at all even at 7k.
If I had the money I would do it, but with a 10:1 compression, then put a TT 276 or so intake cam on it and dial the cam to lower the compression. By leaving the intake open past BDC you lower the compression, but still retain the responsiveness and power delivery of 10:1. 

Ya, but with the lysholm, the difference in responsiveness between a supercharged 9.5:1 engine and a supercharged 10:1 engine is nill.
Some hotter cams, P&P head, full 2.75" exhaust, standalone, smaller pulley, water alk injection. You could hit 260whp before 8K.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_

John IS leaving something out... but you can't argue with the torque and available power from a lysholm.
I'm more of a turbo guy myself, seriously, I would take a turbo over any supercharger, anyday. My old 16V GTI was a monster at 8psi, never lost to anything, blown mustangs didn't stand a chance in a 1/4. But it was a stripped out early MKII with nothing in it. A full interior 8V turbo putting 250 on the ground with a modest torque curve doesn't have the holeshot to get ahead of a 200whp lysholm'd 8V. The lysholm will get him off the line, and you can't run one down in a 1/4 mile. If you run enough boost to chase him down, you don't have the traction till half-track.
It's a hard combo to fight. As soon as I get the 81 on the track, we'll see what it's got at 10psi. And, andy, you best bet if my Jetta stays in AZ for WaterWagens next year, you're going to have a hard time with my bunny.










what about an 8v with an incredible turbo tq curve?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
what about an 8v with an incredible turbo tq curve?









Hey man, if you can show me a dyno plot of a turbo 8V that makes between 200wtq and 220wtq from 3000RPM to 5500RPM but less than 240 peak HP, I'll send you some free LED goodies. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## evil92gti (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: (evil92gti)*

this thread could get verry interesting


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (rabbitmangti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitmangti* »_Sorry BMG







Continue Here please....
Vortex:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3183043 
Motorgeek:
http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...54814 









Thanks man, I'm glad to discuss the pros and cons of my setup vs a turbo, just not here. This thread is about how I did what I did, not why. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
I'm curious how so? my turbo tq curves look exactly the same, but smoother...

Your stuff is impressive. The real argument is if a pump fuel turbo car can beat a pump fuel lysholmed car. I honestly don't know who would win, but I do know that zero lag should account for something. I do know that I can spank 300 whp turbo hondas all day long...and I enjoy it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif as I would imagine you do as well.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_
Your stuff is impressive. The real argument is if a pump fuel turbo car can beat a pump fuel lysholmed car. I honestly don't know who would win, but I do know that zero lag should account for something. I do know that I can spank 300 whp turbo hondas all day long...and I enjoy it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif as I would imagine you do as well.

Yes, chargers are known for their "zero lag" capability. However with regards to racing 300whp turbod hondas, it's still a honda. It's got half the torque curve that a 2.0 8v has.
I was supposed to go to the track yesterday to get some times up now that the o2a is in the car, but my good friend's 20/20BT took a dump and snapped a timing belt. If it weren't for that, you'd probably see a 12 second time slip right now instead of this post. Either way it's a due out. 
I dyno may 12th, so I'll report back when I have my torque curve plotted as well. Every other dynojet I've been on hasn't been able to tag an rpm signal for the torque reading.








p.s. Eddie is the man and my hero.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
Hey man, if you can show me a dyno plot of a turbo 8V that makes between 200wtq and 220wtq from 3000RPM to 5500RPM but less than 240 peak HP, I'll send you some free LED goodies. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

if I would dyno at 14-16 psi, I think I could show you just that or very very close to 3k numbers, but the tq would be slightly higher to reach 240 hp








The charger can just throw so much air with its design 
At 9-11psi I was rompin 222wtq at 3.6k an 207whp... I do agree that the hump of a charger is pretty significant around 2.3 -3k, but my turbo closely catches up fast. All honestly in my opinion any kind of "race" would not use that low of a power band, even from a launch you can get the turbo to spool.

I want to see a dyno plot of an 8v BBM making your quoted numbers or close to compare dyno plots... where is Jbetz plot?????
PB-- get your ish to a dyno, and get those torque plots

_Modified by GTijoejoe at 2:39 PM 4-15-2007_


_Modified by GTijoejoe at 3:19 PM 4-15-2007_


----------



## brownie02m3 (Sep 8, 2005)

lmao dude you claim to whoop 350hp sti's haha id love to see your 2.0 sc beat my sti. oh and my buddy has a 2.0T that would take out your sc too. damn a forum sponsor talkin like this just looks horrible


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (brownie02m3)*

Hey Andy, What size exhaust do you have right now? I have 2.25 right now. Do you think bigger is better w/ the lysholm?


----------



## BeHayes18T (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

that's right big poppa brown. see if this guy will race Kyle or not.
I can't see too many VW's beat a modded STi... but stranger things have happened.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*

I have a 2.25" crappy, falling apart, clobbered together, noisy pile of tubes under the car and hate it. I'm planning on going 2.5" since the restriction at the estimated power levels will be next to nothing and I don't have to worry about backpressure causing slow spool time. 
I always find it funny when people have a 2.25" intake an a 4" madrel bent exhaust system.


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## rabbitmangti (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_








Thanks man, I'm glad to discuss the pros and cons of my setup vs a turbo, just not here. This thread is about how I did what I did, not why. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

No prob....I just wish people would listen


----------



## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Hey man, if you can show me a dyno plot of a turbo 8V that makes between 200wtq and 220wtq from 3000RPM to 5500RPM but less than 240 peak HP, I'll send you some free LED goodies.>>>
todds car in 2002, 200+ tq from 3700 to 6300 rpm (same 2500 rpm band as 3000-5500) peak 249 tq and 241 whp... damn made 2 HP too many!


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## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

Now i'm dreaming up a beater Corrado just for this competition







This is what I'm thinking:
8v tarted up cross flow head in my garage
PG bottom end in my garage
Megasquirt
2.25" exhaust in my garage
And the kicker...
A new VNT-25 for a Shelby CSX. 175hp @ 5200 RPM and 200 tq @ 3700 with a spool around 1500 RPM








Granted it's a 2.2 but they designed the boost limiter to be the restrictive exhaust. Uncorking the exhaust would show about 210 crank horsepower. Best part is you can send it out to a MOPAR shop and have them massage in a T28 compressor for $450 and there you have it. I read about some guy putting down 232 whp in his 2.2, and i'll be damned if he didn't have 200+ wtq from 3000-5500 RPM








Your lysholm will last longer though LOL


_Modified by Geoff Rood at 5:00 PM 4-16-2007_


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I have installed and owned a few turbo powered cars over the years. One of my Corrados is running a GT30R 2.2L 16V
This Scirocco was making about 230 whp and 240 wt
With a best et of 11.6
This power level regularly whoooped up on Honda cars with 300-400+ hp at the 1/4 mile track.
Oh this is on bone stock G60 PG with Digi 1 management, no head porting or internal modifications done.
My daily driver Mk3 2.0L Supercharged at only 15psi smokes 300-350 hp chipped STI's here in town on a regular basis








Enjoy the video, it is one of my old school favorites.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med....mpeg


I would love for you to bring you car to the east coast and we do a highway pull, full weight A2 and i'd keep it at the most 15psi http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Not talking smack, but i would really love for you to bring it to see what corrado has, and so that you know my daily driven and fully street legal gti pulls on modded sti's with no problem.


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## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (killa)*

Such professional people working at BBM. I'll take you up on your offer, but bring it to CALI. It's west coast. BOTI at Sacramento raceway. I'll have my money. make sure you bring yours.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (12 SEC ABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *12 SEC ABA* »_Such professional people working at BBM. I'll take you up on your offer, but bring it to CALI. It's west coast. BOTI at Sacramento raceway. I'll have my money. make sure you bring yours.

I didn't think you gotta pay him, only if you win he pays you








i'm still waiting on a dyno plot of that bbm 8v


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## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
I didn't think you gotta pay him, only if you win he pays you










thats the plan


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_

i'm still waiting on a dyno plot of that bbm 8v


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## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

and the claim is that 217 whp can pull a 2500 pound car to a 12.6?


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## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoff Rood* »_and the claim is that 217 whp can pull a 2500 pound car to a 12.6?
 
on street tires


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

hey so lets trash this guys thread k... awesome


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (1badimport)*

Thats impressive, I still think the puertoricans have the nicest turbo rabbit though.


----------



## LangsamKafer (Jul 17, 2001)

Keep it on topic* & civil please.
Thanks








* Just a reminder, the topic is S/C... there are other places to compare the merits & drawbacks of turbochargers versus superchargers. Here's a good place to start.


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_









Thank you


----------



## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

uncorrected, 49 degrees, 30+ baro, lets see the real number!


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_uncorrected, 49 degrees, 30+ baro, lets see the real number!

I noticed uncorrected... but how did you actually read those numbers in blue?







your a sly guy


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (lugnuts)*

That dyno chart is all I have and it's right on target with every other lysholm dyno I have seen.


----------



## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

its the glasses lol.
I got linked to this thread, just answering a question not trying to get into any crap. I just noticed the thread was about a 16v, firgive me im lazy where is the dyno for that? And more importantly how do you guys keep the crank pulley on the crank?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_its the glasses lol.
I got linked to this thread, just answering a question not trying to get into any crap. I just noticed the thread was about a 16v, firgive me im lazy where is the dyno for that? And more importantly how do you guys keep the crank pulley on the crank? 


The 16v dyno is the green one further up on page 17. That dyno is with a bone stock 16v head and crappy exhaust manifold. 
The crank pulley actually came off on my old engine. I make sure to use a brand new bolt with locktite and proper torque.


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_









this is for stage three correct?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*

Yep


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (12 SEC ABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *12 SEC ABA* »_I'll take you up on your offer, but bring it to CALI. It's west coast. BOTI at Sacramento raceway. I'll have my money. make sure you bring yours.

Oh snap I forgot about you. Now that eddie's out of the loop, I'm chasin your times and hp.
BMG, any plans for the track soon?


----------



## vdubluguy (Mar 13, 2001)

BMG...making huge progress. That ride has to be nuts in mkIII!!!


----------



## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
Now that eddie's out of the loop, .


i still lurk








still into the scene, just moved on to 8cyl and twin turbo's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

andy what pulley are you running now and what were you running on the dyno?


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

I've been running this 55mm. It makes about 15lbs on my setup.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Thats crazy what that little bit of extra volume makes on boost levels.. of course, that just shows how much flow that head gives you


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Bring it, Dont Sing It!*

Ok, ok, so I talked a bunch of smack and got it right back in return








Nice to see the Vortex light up a bit, it has been dead for awhile http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Andy (BMGFifty) sorry for getting your thread off track.
So call it my ego, call it what you want.
*Call it the Turbo Vs. BBM Supercharger War Part II.*
We will have the shoot out this summer just South of Portland at Woodburn drag-strip, details and rules will follow.
The object of this shootout is to compare and race equal cars with equal engines, one running a turbo kit and the other running a BBM supercharger kit.
Kinetic & ATP kits...
If the BBM SC turns out a slower time slip I will still buy you a beer








Better bring your own beer money.
This shoot out is not intended to stroke JBETZ's ego or to see who can build the biggest and baddest azz high budget drag car.
Once again the object is to compare the performance of these two forced induction systems head to head as fairly as it can possibly be done.
*May the best air pump and quality forced induction kit win, all in the name of madness and fun!*
Thanks again


----------



## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

I hate to say it, but not everybody is gong to be impressed with QM times. I am into auto-x and road (legal) racing, and the SC seems to have unfair advantage due to torque. I have seen huge turbo cars do crappy on courses, but SC'd cars do rather well. Since the torque is available down low, and more controlable than many high HP turbo set ups.
I am biased, but I will still see how the SC does against the turbo guys.
Love your dyno,BTW BMG. Your 16v SC is awesome!!!!!


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (fast84gti)*

Unfair advantage on the road course, I LOVE IT







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Good thing for the Turbo kits that we are only running and testing on the 1/4 mile track.



















_Modified by JBETZ at 8:51 AM 4-20-2007_


----------



## 12 SEC ABA (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

your dyno is not an acurate comparison of the 2. here is my dyno with a ****ty journal bearing turbo. At 3k I'm making 150 tq and by 3700 I'm at 200 tq. Your SC dyno shows 200 tq at about 3k, 750 less. With the new BB turbos that spool much better they would be really close.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (12 SEC ABA)*

Lets talk about accurate here








You are completely missing this supercharger turbo overlay chart.
This is not to compare a custom turbo set up running at its maximum potential, most likely on race fuel, max psi and stand alone management.
This comparison chart is with pump gas, the charger is at 15 psi stage III with a turbo kit making 250 whp at stage III.
You have shown that a completely custom turbo set up running at mega boost cant match the torque of the screw type blower running at only 15 psi on pump fuel and a stock engine. 
In fact your much higher hp set up is making 50 foot pounds less wheel torque at 3k rpm.











_Modified by JBETZ at 10:57 AM 4-21-2007_


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

LOL, I want to see a turbo CRX's dyno chart compared to the chargers. Bwah hahahaha


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Lets talk about accurate here








You are completely missing this supercharger turbo overlay chart.
This is not to compare a custom turbo set up running at its maximum potential, most likely on race fuel, max psi and stand alone management.
This comparison chart is with pump gas, the charger is at 15 psi stage III with a turbo kit making 250 whp at stage III.
You have shown that a completely custom turbo set up running at mega boost cant match the torque of the screw type blower running at only 15 psi on pump fuel and a stock engine. 
In fact your much higher hp set up is making 50 foot pounds less wheel torque at 3k rpm.









I'm not gonna drag this out, but a 250whp 2.0 will have a higher wheel tq than that BS overlay chart. I've NEVER seen a 250whp chart from a turboed 2.0 that has that little torque.


_Modified by PBWB at 5:56 AM 4-22-2007_


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (PBWB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PBWB* »_
I'm not gonna drag this out, but a 250whp 2.0 will have a higher wheel tq than that BS overlay chart. I've NEVER seen a 250whp chart from a turboed 2.0 that has that little torque.

_Modified by PBWB at 5:56 AM 4-22-2007_

Ya, generally a 250whp turbo 2.0L (obviously depending on the turbo and wastegate setup and cam) will almost always have more than 225wtq. In fact, I've seen them with milder low end cams make over 260wtq at around 235-240whp.
The chart may be exaggerated, but the idea is the same... ya, the Lysholm style charger provides excellent power up top like a turbo, but doesn't sacrifice anything at the bottom. It's on hard from 2K to 6K, and is much more fun on the street.


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

Well looks like the challenge John Betz offered will have to be the judgment in this one, I know someone in the Or. area must have a Turbo 2.0 that would enjoy this challenge. I know one thing for sure, I love the tq in my little mk2, now only if my tires would stick when I actually step on the gas a bit harder.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jonvwluver78* »_Well looks like the challenge John Betz offered will have to be the judgment in this one, I know someone in the Or. area must have a Turbo 2.0 that would enjoy this challenge. I know one thing for sure, I love the tq in my little mk2, now only if my tires would stick when I actually step on the gas a bit harder.

I'll be headed up there next summer, not a 2.0L exactly, but I'm sure I can take him.


----------



## Elite_Vdub (Sep 16, 2006)

*Re: (12 SEC ABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *12 SEC ABA* »_your dyno is not an acurate comparison of the 2. here is my dyno with a ****ty journal bearing turbo. At 3k I'm making 150 tq and by 3700 I'm at 200 tq. Your SC dyno shows 200 tq at about 3k, 750 less. With the new BB turbos that spool much better they would be really close.









I think if your running 340whp on an 8v, its time to upgrade to a 16v head.


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
I'll be headed up there next summer, not a 2.0L exactly, but I'm sure I can take him.

yea but using an ABF is cheating so youll have to take my ABA as trade


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*yoda speak* "Summer has fallen...
...the 2.0 wars begun they have..."


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

oh and by the way...when my setup is done..we'll see what your "whine machine" has....


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (12 SEC ABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *12 SEC ABA* »_your dyno is not an acurate comparison of the 2. here is my dyno with a ****ty journal bearing turbo. At 3k I'm making 150 tq and by 3700 I'm at 200 tq. Your SC dyno shows 200 tq at about 3k, 750 less. With the new BB turbos that spool much better they would be really close.


Don't worry I "fixed" it, I made it more accurate plotting the BBM against my torque curve


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*

now, now, Joejoe.... we all know you have standalone. Not quite a stage three kit, lol. I still like it though. This summer we'll have to compare our charts, once I actually get some dyno time to tune.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*

Joe, looks good. (although I would like to see a chart where the cars were running equal boost...and the same management)
I would be interested to see a gear by gear dyno of the two since a certain amount of lag comes into play. I would imagine that particular chart would change a bit. 
Aside from the 1:1 ratio of 4th is there another reason to dyno in a higher gear with a turbo car? I remember a certain dyno operator who told me he had a technique to plot a quicker spool on the dyno...but I guess the point is moot since you can pre spool a turbo by launching hard. 



_Modified by BMGFifty at 9:53 PM 4-22-2007_


----------



## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_now, now, Joejoe.... we all know you have standalone. Not quite a stage three kit, lol. I still like it though. This summer we'll have to compare our charts, once I actually get some dyno time to tune.

haha








I know but if I made my "line" of turbo kits, my stgIII would have standalone








I would like to compare out charts for our setups are similar with charger vs turbo.
My pull was in 4th gear, i'm not certain why some operators run 3rd gear pulls... in all honestly I am 5psi over the other plot, but around 15psi its more around 240-50 tq, but the curve actually looks exactly the same just a smaller hump throughout all my pulls... I just don't have any printed/saved plots of lower psi pulls.


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_now, now, Joejoe.... we all know you have standalone. Not quite a stage three kit, lol. I still like it though. This summer we'll have to compare our charts, once I actually get some dyno time to tune.

Mine was at 15psi.







And on the auto tranny scratchin 258whp.
When is this s/c champ gonna see the track?!?!?!?


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

John, you have created a little war here, but I back that chargers tq, it's nice to pull hard on turbos, they never see it coming. but most of the guys around where I am at, have turbo application on hondas, there are a couple 240's that flat out kill everyone around here, but they have thousands upon thousands of dollars into thier cars.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksEffect* »_
yea but using an ABF is cheating so youll have to take my ABA as trade









HA! A big turbo ABF is not playing fair... I'll bring the 8V 5door rabbit... it's not an ABA, but it's got an ABA head and a decent sized hair dryer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jonvwluver78* »_John, you have created a little war here, but I back that chargers tq, it's nice to pull hard on turbos, they never see it coming. but most of the guys around where I am at, have turbo application on hondas, there are a couple 240's that flat out kill everyone around here, but they have thousands upon thousands of dollars into thier cars.

yea whats the deal with 240s man. some kid had one and before my friend could eevn shift the 240 was long gone.
which brings me to think i know he had a jspec engine in it. not sure somethign around the lines of d20??? either way. how come these ***** kids can get engines from japan for so cheap drop them in and BAM fast fun car. where as getting an abf is so difficult.


_Modified by VolksEffect at 8:53 PM 4-25-2007_


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksEffect* »_
yea whats the deal with 240s man. some kid had one and before my friend could eevn shift the 240 was long gone.
which brings me to think i know he had a jspec engine in it. not sure somethign around the lines of d20??? either way. how come these ***** kids can get engines from japan for so cheap drop them in and BAM fast fun car. where as getting an abf is so difficult.

_Modified by VolksEffect at 8:53 PM 4-25-2007_

Probably an SR20DET... the choice engine to swap into S14's. And yes, they scream. I've driven actual sylvia's, and they are fun as all hell. I like them better than GTR's, at least from a driver perspective.. the Atessa AWD makes driving a lot less fun, but the 2.5GT Skylines are fun as well.
Lots of great Japanese cars that absolutely howl, but lack the character and excentricities that I love about VW. That's why I stopped doing Z-cars and moved to VW. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
Probably an SR20DET... the choice engine to swap into S14's. And yes, they scream. I've driven actual sylvia's, and they are fun as all hell. I like them better than GTR's, at least from a driver perspective.. the Atessa AWD makes driving a lot less fun, but the 2.5GT Skylines are fun as well.
Lots of great Japanese cars that absolutely howl, but lack the character and excentricities that I love about VW. That's why I stopped doing Z-cars and moved to VW. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yup that was the engine. as much as imports gettin bashed, i respect them more and more now. there is a 240 coupe at school with the most amazing widebody. the guy is an engi major i think. but either way there are some nice imports that come out to some of the local sat night rice meets. there is a nice skyline LHD of course. and a nice LHD 240 . 

ok ok before we get this off topic.
how about some more VIDSSSSSSSSSSSSS. 
everyday i get on your thread BMG just anxiously waiting for the bank account to say ok i have enough for my stg III. but i keep withdrawing . . .o2a, AIR TOOLS, ETC.


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

i think the scene is finally trying to step away from the rice imagine. Sure you still have the kids who think thier moms accord pulls low 9's but i def. have respect for alot of the imports.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*

I just did some visual stuff to the car. I'll have to post some pictures of the painted grille and the newly painted front bumper. 
More vids...hmmm I'll have to bug my friend who has a video camera.


----------



## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

silly of me to ask, but just out of curiousity, how many of you 200+ whp guys that are reading this can still say you are using an 020? From my experiences, once you start making more than stock power they become slightly fragile if not babied. 


_Modified by The Rice Cooker at 8:04 PM 4-26-2007_


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*

I am!!!!!


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Rice Cooker* »_silly of me to ask, but just out of curiousity, how many of you 200+ whp guys that are reading this can still say you are using an 020?

Done it... several other guys have run into the 250whp range with an 020... Greg haley being one of them, and he doesn't baby his car, either.. it's a hillclimb racecar... not even driven on the street.


----------



## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Rice Cooker* »_From my experiences, once you start making more than stock power they become slightly fragile if not babied. 

I think it's not so much how much power you're making or how hard you push the car, but how hard you are on the transmission. Making power isn't necessarily destructive, as long as you're not doing anything stupid or damaging to the transmission. I guess what I'm getting at is that you can blow up an 020 with a stock motor (mine blew up, but I've only had the car for about a year and a half, and considering the clutch was basically gone when I got it, it's safe to say is was beaten).
You can make power and drive the car like a bat out of hell without actually driving it in such a way that would damage the transmission.
I babied mine but I think it was too late... so I started practicing stuff like shifting at the right gear speeds without using the clutch (I never really ground any gears practicing, either) because I could hear it whining even though I've done the oil in it twice so I figured I'll just buy a new one. Which I did the day before yesterday. Once you hear the bearings start to go, though, that's when the diff is moving enough to start wearing the rivets. I actually test drove a used 1.8T that sounded like mine did last year (just a barely audible bearing noise with wheel speed, but it didn't change when steering, but it got louded when braking in gear... wasn't the wheel bearings)
It's sort of like how a wheel hub can move in and out a little if the bearing is starting to go, the diff is the same way.


_Modified by ninety9gl at 12:18 AM 4-27-2007_


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (ninety9gl)*

I have seen 020's hold as much if not more than most O2a's, but I do like knowing that my internals are a slight bit bigger and engineered for more power. The only problem I ever had with my O2O is the diff, everything else was in good shape. I can't say that about the O2a.


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I have seen 020's hold as much if not more than most O2a's, but I do like knowing that my internals are a slight bit bigger and engineered for more power. The only problem I ever had with my O2O is the diff, everything else was in good shape. I can't say that about the O2a. 

a week from sat im going to pick up an o2a from a guy. the complete swap, it makes me nervous though BMG seein how you wnet through so many. eeeek. so maybe ill leave the 020 in until i need it.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (VolksEffect)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VolksEffect* »_
a week from sat im going to pick up an o2a from a guy. the complete swap, it makes me nervous though BMG seein how you wnet through so many. eeeek. so maybe ill leave the 020 in until i need it.

Its the roll of the dice, tq will blow up trannies non-the-less, and so will hard driving....
agtronic has blown up 10 020's.... some people destroy them, some people don't regardless of how you drive or how much power you got, you'll never know if you got one thats easy to blow, or if its bullet proof...
my $.02


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*

And I thought my three trannies was a lot. So far though it's been cheaper to buy another O2O then by a LSD and thats for all the transmissions.


----------



## VolksEffect (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jonvwluver78* »_And I thought my three trannies was a lot. So far though it's been cheaper to buy another O2O then by a LSD and thats for all the transmissions.









yea i decided i am going to take the o2a swap im gettin and by my friends gold thats been sitting forever since the auto tranny went out. swap the 02a in that and then put the charger on it as well.


----------



## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jonvwluver78* »_And I thought my three trannies was a lot. So far though it's been cheaper to buy another O2O then by a LSD and thats for all the transmissions.









no worries im on my third trans. 2, 020, and 1, 02a. Hopefully this will be the last trans I have to install.


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## The Rice Cooker (Jan 13, 2004)

Thanks for the input guys, I don't believe I've ever had so much feedback from one question. I have a little bit of gear whine in first and second gears, so I'll be easy on it since it sounded like you were saying the noise is somehow related to the diff. I guess replacing the diff with an LSD wouldn't be such a bad idea. One more question now - Is there anyone boosting on a 268 or a 270 cam (I know these are not the ideal cams for boost, but I just want to know if it's been done) Thanks again guys!


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (The Rice Cooker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Rice Cooker* »_Thanks for the input guys, I don't believe I've ever had so much feedback from one question. I have a little bit of gear whine in first and second gears, so I'll be easy on it since it sounded like you were saying the noise is somehow related to the diff. I guess replacing the diff with an LSD wouldn't be such a bad idea. One more question now - Is there anyone boosting on a 268 or a 270 cam (I know these are not the ideal cams for boost, but I just want to know if it's been done) Thanks again guys!

I will be in a week or 2 when i finish cleaning up my OBD1 head....TT 268 to be exact...
I'll let everyone know when I hit the road with my new combo and 20psi


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

Oh and it's O2A for me.......


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

I want to go for the TDI transmission. love the gears in them, and were built for tq anyway. what's up with you have not really talked, we should shoot some video of your ride, as if it has not been shot enough lately hehehehehe


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*

We should do some clips. Maybe roasting first and second, or how about a drive by clip of pedestrians freaking out. <---- I love that, there is no need for a horn when your car sounds as evil as mine does.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
I will be in a week or 2 when i finish cleaning up my OBD1 head....TT 268 to be exact...
I'll let everyone know when I hit the road with my new combo and *20psi*









Deal breaker, Dave... I'm not playing now.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Andy? Do your connectors collapse while your idling?


----------



## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

has anybody else caught this thread in the mk2 forums








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3208762


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_Andy? Do your connectors collapse while your idling?

Yep, so far they haven't caused any issued at all. Idle is solid and the hoses show no signs of fatigue.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_Andy? Do your connectors collapse while your idling?

Both of your two guys are running the prototype tubes.
I think we made only two or three sets like this.
Our production kit runs hard pipes all 90 degree sections and fixes this issue.
Have a great weekend guys








I'm still building a deck


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

yes lets do it, this time we will go somewhere a bit better for the drive by, other than your street,We have to do it before to long though.I also have that rad for you when I come by,this time I hope my tire does not fly off. just picked up some used TSW'S 15'' will be buying tires for them some time soon, I have other plans to get my car to a completely different level first though.








Should have that done by the time I get back from Mexico in july and should be nice to have for Water wagens.... later


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

Andy, thanks for filling out the project car page.
Great picture of your mug








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/fea..._III/


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## a2coupe2a_ (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Andy, thanks for filling out the project car page.
Great picture of your mug








http://www.bahnbrenner.com/fea..._III/


hes so dreamy


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (a2coupe2a_)*

Lol








Cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

very nice Andy, now you and your car has a big smile going on. can't wait to be right there with you, soon enough.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*

ttt


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

New exhaust system on the way...hopefully it will quiet this beast down. Dual Borlas and an extra magnaflow muffler should do the trick.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

bump for your new and quiet exhaust.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Oh yeah, the car sounds great! I can actually hear myself think. I recommend it for anyone who wants quieter performance.


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

So now I have to hear your car,Perhaps Friday I can come by, let me know.


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## speaker (Aug 12, 2001)

Subscribed so I can easily return when I need inspiration.....about anything!


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (speaker)*

Last week was a pain. Both the engine speed sensor and the coil decided to go at the same time. I wasn't getting spark, wasn't getting fuel, wasn't getting a tach signal. I ended up swapping in a spare ecu, a spare coil, new cap, rotor, wires and plugs and still nothing. For some reason I wasn't getting power to the fuel pump...even the prime signal. It seemed like my car had a total system failure...then suddenly the fuel pump started working again and I had spark at the coil.
Its running again, but not without a bunch of swearing and general annoyance.


----------



## ChiliPepper (Aug 2, 2007)

what mods did you do to the ECU


----------



## ChiliPepper (Aug 2, 2007)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

did you do anything to the ECU


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (ChiliPepper)*

The only thing I did to the ecu was put a chip in it.


----------



## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (BMGFifty)*

Hey Andy I'm right behind you on the build buddy, I told you that I would be doing it soon, I just could not sorce the money any other way but good old fashion savings, selling some old car parts have helped a lot. I have been trying to get a hold of John to buy some parts, but he must be busy, I guess he is out of town. I still think if all goes well I will have the motor built by the end of this Summer.


----------



## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: My newest project: ABA 16v S/C (Jonvwluver78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jonvwluver78* »_Hey Andy I'm right behind you on the build buddy, I told you that I would be doing it soon, I just could not sorce the money any other way but good old fashion savings, selling *your body on the street..etc*. I

Fixed that for ya Jon.


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## huskylord (Nov 20, 2005)

Wow, just read this thread from beginning to end. Awesome is all I can say. 
Just a quick question for the BGMFifty...where do you do all the work on your engine (I noticed on that link it mentioned you have no garage, live in an apartment, no lift...etc). I have made excuse after excuse for not doing more to my Jetta cause I have a single car garage and complain about the tightness.
Anyways, cheers and hope you don't run into any more (expensive) issues.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (huskylord)*

Most of the work is done in my carport if I can. Otherwise the engine was built at BBM and anything else I do at the awesome shop up the street, Fine Tuning.


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## SYNCROgeek (Oct 20, 2001)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

What size exhaust did you change to? 2.25" or 2.5" and how is it configured to fit 3 mufflers?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (arad)*

I bought the TT 2.5" dual borla setup and had a magnaflow 4" x 14" resonator muffler installed in the mid pipe. 
It looks kinda like this.


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Thanks for clearing that up for me bud, also nice exhaust set up. Need you to drop me a line in an email with your number again, I am going to need to contact you about some things concerning the conversion, I am waiting for a few more parts, and then all I need is the water outlet, and some adapters and it's game time.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I bought the TT 2.5" dual borla setup and had a magnaflow 4" x 14" resonator muffler installed in the mid pipe. 
It looks kinda like this.









Nice is really quiet now.... this old man might need to sign up for one of these babies. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vwabbitman (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_









That is now my background.

DAMN I have been looking at what to do to my 2.0 Golf. Now I know exactly what I want to do. I think first I am gonna do the 16v conversion, drive it for a few months to get used to it and then go stage 3 BBM supercharger.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (vwabbitman)*

Pick up a copy of Eurotuner next month...hint hint.


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## vwabbitman (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Next month as in October, right?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (vwabbitman)*

That's what I'm told.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Andy, stop trying to show up the 8V class and act all tough in here. 
I'll sport you the top secret higherboosta bbm extra large billet crank pulley kit.
Better rip off a nice little daily driver class blown 16v et.


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## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: Update (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I'll sport you the top secret higherboosta bbm extra large billet crank pulley kit.


wow that was a hand full. can wait for the conversion...arghgh only money was not a problem...


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Andy, stop trying to show up the 8V class and act all tough in here. 
I'll sport you the top secret higherboosta bbm extra large billet crank pulley kit.
Better rip off a nice little daily driver class blown 16v et.









The top secret higherboosta pulley kit ain't no top secret no more now is it?


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

That's funny, Andy,If you go down to Portland for the battle of FI I may want to hitch a ride with you if that's cool. That's if you don't plan on staying down there,also may go ahead and bring some money and get a few parts down there to finish up this 16v. I was thinking about going AWIC though, would run me about the same price as the FMIC


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (Jonvwluver78)*

You could hitch a ride if you needed.


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

cool, I'll be talking with you soon.


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## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

*Re: Update (Jonvwluver78)*

could you use any 16v intake manifold? or just a scriocco?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (ChinkyVdub)*

Both will work, but I chose the scirocco because it allowed me to intercool it easier.


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## gti97r (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

bmg is my idol! add one more to the SC vs turbo battle


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Update (gti97r)*

Damn! That looks like one heel of a build up! 
Hey Andy, I never noticed the polished tube that seems to come from the DV and around the front of the charger... Did you do a little custom change up on that?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (Zorba2.0)*

That tube is a custom stainless coolant line. It replaced a crappy plastic setup that I was running earlier.


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Ah, ok. Does that hookup to the flange on the head?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (Zorba2.0)*

Yeah, but only the BBM flange since the regular flange hits the charger.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Anyone get the latest issue of eurotuner??


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## gti97r (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

i read the article today! good stuff man congrats!!!!!
have a few on me


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## vwabbitman (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Anyone get the latest issue of eurotuner??

















I think you need to trim your bumper. Atleast under the IC. Looks odd. But it looks good. I havent read the article yet but will next time i go to town. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (vwabbitman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwabbitman* »_
I think you need to trim your bumper. Atleast under the IC. Looks odd. But it looks good. I havent read the article yet but will next time i go to town. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i like my bumper that way it's smiling... like this


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Got home today and my et came in the mail. I sit down on the sh*tter, and who do I see on page 72...Lo and behold, Andy's ugle mug! lol


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_Anyone get the latest issue of eurotuner??

















Your car rips a$$ Andy
Sooo nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Wish my GTI was 16V'ed


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (JBETZ)*

Thanks John!


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## gti97r (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

how many psi were you pushing when you dynoed 227?


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (gti97r)*

I think around 15psi peak. It was surprisingly low. That 16v head flows much nicer than the 8v.


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## cifdig (Jun 4, 2005)

nice im hoping to hit the same hp with my 8 valve ive done everything i can and my last dyno was 212 and 227 tq, i have an air to water ic, it was at 13 13.5 psi. im going another step up and getting a 272 268 449 lift cam and seeking out a smaller pulley, hopefully i can get around 220 or higher


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Cat cam on the 272*? Make sure you get the one with the 112" LC's.


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## gti97r (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

your car is sick dude and makes me want to get mine running ASAP!

with the numbers your saying that means i should be able to hit my 250 easy!
keep it up


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## cifdig (Jun 4, 2005)

its a 272 268 duel pattern cam


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

Nice wheels


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## airborne187 (May 21, 2006)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

super nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## koston. (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

this buildup is incredible. not sure which is better, 16v or supercharger. Both is wild. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: Update (JBETZ)*

John you should go for it, and sport the same charger you have on your Coraddo


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## bm16v (Feb 4, 2005)

*Re: Update (Jonvwluver78)*

Really love your car. Definitely one of my all time favorites. Loved the Eurotuner feature as well.


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## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: Update (bm16v)*

i have an ABA 16V G60 on digi I right now and have thought about doing this for some time but, didn't realize BBM had the software on the shelf. needless to say i have a full M5.9 conversion in the mail as we speak along with the ABA ancillaries since i would like to trade my G60 for a lysholm down the road.
my only concern is that i have 9A pistons in my ABA block. how am i going to account for the extra compression??? 
maybe john betz could chime in??? 
btw... mine has been running for 2 years now. i considered scrapping it since i could never get the bugger to run correctly. there's sooo much potential locked up inside it. it's exciting to think i might actually get it done "properly" !!!


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (MA_XXX)*

The difference in compression ratio would make the current chip a bit too agressive, but I think Jeff Atwood could modify my chip for a nominal fee. You could also run 93 octane and a little higher fuel pressure and let the ecu sort it out since the tune is still fairly conservative to accomodate high temps and bad fuel. The beauty of running a knock sensor is that the ecu knows when its advancing too much and will pull timing accordingly.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (bm16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bm16v* »_Really love your car. Definitely one of my all time favorites. Loved the Eurotuner feature as well. 

Thanks!


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## gti97r (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: Update (MA_XXX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MA_XXX* »_i have an ABA 16V G60 on digi I right now and have thought about doing this for some time but, didn't realize BBM had the software on the shelf. needless to say i have a full M5.9 conversion in the mail as we speak along with the ABA ancillaries since i would like to trade my G60 for a lysholm down the road.
my only concern is that i have 9A pistons in my ABA block. how am i going to account for the extra compression??? 
maybe john betz could chime in??? 
btw... mine has been running for 2 years now. i considered scrapping it since i could never get the bugger to run correctly. there's sooo much potential locked up inside it. it's exciting to think i might actually get it done "properly" !!! 

couldnt you just use a head gasket spacer, like the one bbm sells, to lower the compression into a better range. thats what i did on my 9a.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (gti97r)*

Actually, yes. I guess I didn't think about it.


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## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

i suppose i could use a spacer... but, i went through the trouble of putting the pistons in!!! besides... the spacer with my pistons would bring me down to 7.?:1 !!! 
i'd rather run the 'off-the-shelf' software and go see jeff for a re-map since i'm not that far away. he's in WA, right?
i forgot about the timing retard through the knock sensor... it might get me going until i can get there for the re-map.
btw... i ONLY run 94. it doesn't like anything less. it stumbles on 91-92 since the ECU is so antiquated.


_Modified by MA_XXX at 10:03 AM 11-26-2007_


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Update (MA_XXX)*

Jeff is actually in CT. He flew out when my car was tuned. 
We estimate that my car is actually closer to 9:1 with the head shaved like it is. The software was tuned on 92 octane, so the 94 that you run should make up most of the difference. 
What I would do is pick up the software from BBM and run it on 94. You can then run a vagcom on block 045 iirc and it will tell you how much timing is being pulled and when. If you send the log file to Jeff he should be able to do a remap. I have a feeling that there won't be much of an issue since we tuned in to run on worse fuel and to take more boost than I'm currently running.


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## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: Update (BMGFifty)*

what i think i'll do is run the BBM software and keep an eye on the wide-band. if it's reading something goofy... i'll record the logs and see what jeff can do.
especially if i plan to add more boost.


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## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: Update (MA_XXX)*

it seems as though i'm doing this all backward but, it's only because i've been running this set-up for something like 2 years. maybe i'll call mr. betz @ BBM to see if he can put together a package for me since i need a weird collection of parts; most of which he has on the shelf


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## dart_06 (Nov 24, 2007)

wow.. i just read this whole thread today and am really thinking about gettin a 2.slow vw instead of a vr. this was a greatly put togather thread and very informative.. except for the stupid supercharger vs. turbo BS.. great job and congrats on your gti!!!


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (dart_06)*

Thanks! I love the way my car drives, very happy with the outcome.


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Yeah now we just need to see a mk2 on the road with this set up in the state of WA. things just keep setting me back dude... but very close.


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (Jonvwluver78)*

For those who missed the eurotuner article. 
(yes thats my goofy ass)
http://www.eurotuner.com/featu....html


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## Jonvwluver78 (Mar 20, 2007)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

That add is sweet, can't wait to see numbers on the mk2 and perhasp a double feature of the sweet 16's lol


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (BMGFifty)*

Bump for Tom at AP Tuning


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## 21tuningolf (Dec 29, 2007)

just the insperation i need to get a 16v head on my 2.0 ,been wanting to do it for a long time now and after seeing this car i'm ready to get it done. great build up


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: (21tuningolf)*

thanks!


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## BMGFifty (Sep 2, 2004)

Bump from the grave! 

The car is now for sale:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-C-Eurotuner-featured&p=73392966#post73392966


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## vwabbitman (Mar 12, 2006)

*FV-QR*

yeah i know im bringing this from the grave but i wanna know if the car is still around and how its doing.


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