# 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl



## oksidzen (May 20, 2006)

Hey guys,
I've been reading, and a bit stumped, hoping to get an idea where to begin with this.. I have a 2001 Passat with the ATQ V6.
Here are my codes:
Monday,10,August,2009,20:42:50:02295
VCDS Version: Release 805.4
Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 3B0 907 551 BS
Component and/or Version: 2.8L V6/5V G 0001
Software Coding: 07501
Work Shop Code: WSC 00028
Additional Info: WVWPH63B51P091590 VWZ7Z0Y3158591
6 Faults Found:
18057 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from ABS Controller 
P1649 - 35-00 - - 
17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation 
P1340 - 35-00 - - 
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
P0300 - 35-00 - - 
16685 - Cylinder 1: Misfire Detected 
P0301 - 35-00 - - 
16687 - Cylinder 3: Misfire Detected 
P0303 - 35-00 - - 
16686 - Cylinder 2: Misfire Detected 
P0302 - 35-00 - - 
Readiness: 0010 1101

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Obviously the ABS module is bad. I know that one.
But, the rest of the codes are confusing me.
The misfires stop when revved above 1200 RPM or so...
I've checked the timing belt (which was done just before I bought the car) and it was a t-belt job done without the proper tools, and it almost looked like bank 1 camshaft was off just a hair. I turned the cam one tooth the direction that I thought would be right, and it looked VERY far off, so I put it back the way I found it. I don't have the two tools for the t-belt yet, so I didn't re-tension the belt the factory way. Doing this, I realize, may solve my problem.
I'm hoping the chain isn't stretched, and I'm hoping my cam adjuster isn't broken, obviously.
I'm trying to see if anyone can give me any ideas of stuff to check, or where I should start.
I've put in new proper factory-style spark plugs at $13 each my cost (shop price). I've also ran two bottles of techron fuel injector cleaner in the vehicle. Obviously neither of these solved the issue.
The vehicle has 154k miles on it. It seems to run great except at idle, when you can feel the misfires. It accelerates perfectly.
Compression test revealed: Cyl #1: 110 - Cyl #2: 120 - Cyl #3: 117
So I don't think its bent valves.
Any suggestions on where to start besides resetting the t-belt cam pulley positions, which I already plan to do...

Also, anyone know the measuring blocks I should look at to investigate the 17748 code? also, what the readings should be for the appropriate measuring blocks?
Thanks in advance!


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

the camshafts are probably not alined. Someone probably did cam seals, removed the cams and did not line them up and are off 1-tooth to far. You need to pull that valve cover and put the crank at tdc and the cams aligned and check for the 15 links in the chain from the slot on ex cam and intake cam. there is a post on here somewhere with the picture of it. The end cam caps have little arrows on them that the slots on the camshaft chain gears line up with. one will line right up the other will be slightly off the arrow barely


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## oksidzen (May 20, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (Slimjimmn)*

Well, I re-did the timing with the proper tools, and no luck. Same problem. 17748 Cam position sensor/Engine Speed Sensor Incorrect Correlation, with misfires at idle, on Cylinders 1, 2, and 3. (All one bank)
Any other suggestions on things to check?


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

did you pull the valve covers and check the position of the camshafts? the timing of the cam gears to the crank wont matter for those codes
another thing to check is swap the cam position sensors from bank to bank and if the code and misfires go to the other bank the sensor is bad.


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## oksidzen (May 20, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (Slimjimmn)*

My next task is to pull the valve cover and check cam positions.. I've concluded that it may be a stretched chain, or bad shoes on the cam adjuster, or maybe the chain skipped a tooth. That's really all I can imagine it to be at this point.
UPDATE:
Well, I found the cause of the issue. Intake cam is off a tooth, and the plastic guides on the cam adjuster are NFG. Upper one is okay, but the lower one is in pieces.
What I'm curious about now, is the fact that I can press down the cam adjuster without too much pressure. Shouldn't the adjuster be very stiff, even if the lower foot is broken? I'm still hoping I don't need the whole unit, but if I do, then I do.
Is there a way to test the cam adjuster? I will be removing it to install the new chain guide shoe things, but don't want to order just the shoes if the whole unit is junk.
Thanks in advance!!!
*SUPER HAPPY to at least know what was causing the issue!*
also, what is normal spec on the compression? is 110-120 okay, or could there still be bent valves since the intake cam was off a tooth??


_Modified by oksidzen at 10:00 PM 8-13-2009_


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

Normal spec is on compression is closer to 200PSI. The cam chain tensioner being bad will cause the compression to go down as the intake cam will be miss-timed, opening too soon or closing too late. I just had this problem when repacing a head, I was one tooth off and had compression in the 125PSI range. Now it is 205-214PSI.
It is a hydraulic cylinder, so it will slide up and down if there is no resistance. 
Replace the cam chain tensioner seal while you are in there and the silicone half moon.
You may be able to replace the cam chain tensioner leaving the exhaust cam in place. Remove the bearing caps for the intake cam, keep them in order, remove the bolts from the cam chain tensioner and remove only the first bearing cap near the CCT on the exhaust cam. By lifting a bit, this should give you enough room to wiggle the intake cam out of the chain, then the CCT can be removed for repair or replacement.


_Modified by tryin2vw at 7:49 AM 8-14-2009_


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## oksidzen (May 20, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (tryin2vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tryin2vw* »_Normal spec is on compression is closer to 200PSI. The cam chain tensioner being bad will cause the compression to go down as the intake cam will be miss-timed, opening too soon or closing too late. I just had this problem when repacing a head, I was one tooth off and had compression in the 125PSI range. Now it is 205-214PSI.

Great to hear this! Hoping it goes similarly for me.

_Quote, originally posted by *tryin2vw* »_It is a hydraulic cylinder, so it will slide up and down if there is no resistance.

This is very promising, since I was concerned I might have needed to buy the entire cam adjuster. Although I did find a source for one considerably less expensive than anywhere on the internet, should I end up needing to after all.

_Quote, originally posted by *tryin2vw* »_Replace the cam chain tensioner seal while you are in there and the silicone half moon.

Already planning on that one!







There's no chance that I'd skip the only $3 part in there!

_Quote, originally posted by *tryin2vw* »_You may be able to replace the cam chain tensioner leaving the exhaust cam in place. Remove the bearing caps for the intake cam, keep them in order, remove the bolts from the cam chain tensioner and remove only the first bearing cap near the CCT on the exhaust cam. By lifting a bit, this should give you enough room to wiggle the intake cam out of the chain, then the CCT can be removed for repair or replacement.

This is some of the best news I've heard yet! I'm going to attempt just that, and post the update here of how that goes. I'll also confirm this working/not working... Although it seems as if you are pretty confident this works, which leads me to believe you've done it before.








I'm also going to take my camera, and snag a few photos for anyone else attempting this in the future.


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

Is your car in service position? If it is, after getting the whole thing back together, spin the crank 2 or 4 complete times and get everyting back on TDC. The sprocket keys should align with the arrows on the bearing caps at TDC like this:








That would verify things are back in time properly.
Note how close the bearing caps are to the CCT. Removing these will give more room. The trick is to get the sprocket behind the cam chain tensioner, then it will pop out. It took about 15 minutes to get mine apart wiithout taking out the exhaust cam..

_Modified by tryin2vw at 6:33 PM 8-14-2009_


_Modified by tryin2vw at 6:35 PM 8-14-2009_


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

Do you have a cam chain tension compression tool?


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## oksidzen (May 20, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (tryin2vw)*

Of course I forgot the camera, but I got it apart like you specified.
Turns out its been like this for some time. The bottom pad of the cam adjuster was destroyed, and the chain has been grinding grooves into the metal of the bottom of the adjuster piston that the plastic pad attaches to.
I'm going to be purchasing a new cam adjuster/seal/half-moon/valve cover gasket.
I did purchase the compression tool, but it won't be here until Wednesday. The new adjuster should come with the tool installed on it also, so I'll have two of the tools.
_I would like to leave the exhaust cam in, and the chain, and just install the new cam adjuster. What is the likeliness that the chain has stretched? I don't see any damage to the inside of the links where it has been putting grooves into the adjuster._
I don't really have the money to drop on the timing belt cam lock tool or crank lock pin, and the one time I borrowed it from a local shop was probably the one time I could do so.
Thus, I'd rather not pull off the t-belt if I can help it.
And no, the car is not in service position. I have a good breaker bar and socket that I've been able to turn the motor over with, without it being in service position. Also, when I did the t-belt over again, I was able to fit the cam tool in without it being in service position. Lots of room actually...


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

If there is concern, a new cam chain can be purchased. Steel is way harder than the aluminum, so it may not be a problem. Check the chain by laying it on the side, pushing/pulling the chain looking for slop. You will know if it has stretched. Make sure there is no aluminum galled to the chain that may wear/erode the tensioner pads.
The timing belt should not have to be readjusted as long as the car was at TDC with the cam bar/crank pin when the sprocket were tightened. Put the engine at TDC so the cams can be checked for alignment. Do the chain tensioner and reassemble. Make sure the cam notches align properly. Then use the breaker bar to rotate the crank twice back to TDC, verifying the cams are in the proper place.


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

I am just a car owner relaying my experiences in this matter. I am not a professional mechanic.


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (tryin2vw)*

i would replace the cam adjuster assembly. It comes with the compression tool and the shoes and all.


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## oksidzen (May 20, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (Slimjimmn)*

Well, I was at the local wrecking yard yesterday, and decided I'd check to see if they had the part. Turns out I got a used head with the CCT, the chain, the camshaft position sensor, and good valves with the cams and everything still installed. The head only had 103k miles on it.
Once I receive my new tool, I'll pull this used head apart, and I'll get all the new seals and put the CCT in my old head which is still installed on my car.
If when I'm all said and done, some how there were bent valves, I've already got a good head. And if my car's head is fine, I'm sure someone is looking for an inexpensive head with good valves. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The guides on the new CCT doesn't have much wear on them. The grooves in the plastic are minimal, so I figured it would be a good deal.
I had the opportunity to buy a head with 28k miles on it, but it was $100 more...
The used head looks really good though, so I'm not too worried about it.


_Modified by oksidzen at 9:48 AM 8-16-2009_


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

Nice find!


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## MEDEL514 (Jan 12, 2002)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

I may be in the market for your used head. I'm still waiting on the 6pt. poly drive tool to remove my head, but when I removed the #2 spark plug, the bottom of it looked like someone tried to chew off the electrode tip and grounding arms. I can only imagine what those little pieces have done to the piston and valves!


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## oksidzen (May 20, 2006)

Well, got the tool today, and got the new CCT installed. At first it seemed to run really rough, but I'm guessing it just had to build oil pressure at the CCT..
It was misfiring VERY randomly and seldom on cylinder #2 right after I started it up. I drove the car about 12 miles, and it seemed to clear up. I also parked in a parking lot, and ran all the readiness systems, and everything passed well.
The only thing I see, is that the secondary air injection system is supposed to run at 0-5 g/s mass flow, and it was bouncing from 4.2-5.2.. so that may soon be an issue, or I may just need some new lines. I'm not sure what the reading exactly means. There was no code thrown, and it passed the readiness check.
Seems that the CCT solved the issue.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Many thanks to all that gave me help/pointers. It was valuable help. Thank you!


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (MEDEL514)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MEDEL514* »_ when I removed the #2 spark plug, the bottom of it looked like someone tried to chew off the electrode tip and grounding arms. 

your engine is gone. sorry, dont waste time taking off the head if the plug is mashed up. 
i'll save you the time, check out my post, thats what It will look like.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3989692


_Modified by Slimjimmn at 9:30 PM 8-19-2009_


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: 01 Passat - V6 - misfires 1,2,3 and cam position/engine speed incor correl (oksidzen)*

That may be a leak in the SAI system. Check the plastic piping from the SAIP to the engine. Also check the vacuum lines to the Kombi Valves as they may have leaks.


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