# The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (Grab a drink... You'll Need It)



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

Ok, I will try and make this post as decisive as possible. Giving any and all info in order to pull some ponies
outta your 8v the next time you get to the salvage yard. 
First, airbox mods. Many people claim that cutting holes in your airbox will suck hot enging air. I agree, if the 
only hole you cut is toward the engine. In my old 86 Scirocco, i placed a temp sensor from a truck stop into my 
intake stream, trying to build the best CIS intake. It worked. Under throttle, and acceleration, your engine will 
NOT suck hot air as drastically as everyone likes to point out. At idle for example, on a 70 degree day, the intake 
air temp would rise to about 90 or so. Under acceleration, it would drop back to 70, with no change up or down if 
you revved your motor while sitting still.
The secong, for digi II owners is to removed the snorkel in your air box to allow more air to come in. It works, 
kinda. It will give you better throttle response and a cool tone (garggle, garggle) but really doesn't do much for 
HP. I actually removed my air box all together, put an adapter plate on and ran with an 11" K&N conical. With all 
air flow plates removed, i see no difference in performance after heat up, and I gained a couple of ponies. 
Next digi II owners, crack open the AFM on the top of your air box, and release the spring tension by 3 clicks, you 
will see better throttle response, and quicker acceleration. 
If you are driving a digi II car without a PF engine code, next time you get to a junk yard and find one, grab the 
camshaft, and the dual downpipe. You will see results. From 5 hp to 7 HP. It is well worth it.
MK3 swaybars are an upgrade, and fit.
Digi II owners, grab thse go fast parts if you can find them. Coraddo or Turbo coupe injestors, porsche 944s FPR, 
BMW 535i AFM (the black box) Coraddo fuel rail. With and air/fuel gauge, you can adjust the system to run a little 
rich for more power.

Now that we have covered the easy to find parts, and accessories, we can dive a little deeper into the fine tuning of a VW.
First of all, digi II owners. There was a factory drivability fix availible. You might be able to locate it in a 
yard. It is a additional plug that goes between the factory plug and the air flow meter. With a cheap chip will fix 
a little bit of the problems accociated with digi II.
CIS owners, buy a couple of throttle body couplers, and some 3" PVC. Paint the PVC whatever color you want, and find 
the adapter to fit it right, and join the air box and throttle body with the PVC. This will not add torque, or any 
real noticable hp gains, but you will see throttle response increase, and maybe get 1 or 2 at the top end.
Windage trays are an important part of the tuning process. These work by keeping oil from spalshing up on to a 
moving crankshaft, causing parasitic loss. A windage tray will have the same effect of a lightweight pulley. You can 
find factory ones in GTIs, and GLI's, or crossflow motors.
Advancing your ignition timing manually can provide great gains. With the apropriate ignition modifications, like 
hotter coil, performance wires, and the right plugs for the job, you can make gains as high as 5 to 7 hp. Hotter 
coils and performance wires won't add power, but with the appropriate timing, can really make the difference. 
The Tornado Fuel Saver will add power!!!!!!!! The tornado works on the priciple that it will pull air into the 
motor, kinda like adding a very small turbo. At top end, it will add about 1 to 2 psi. This would be great for CIS 
cars, but digi II owners can run into small problems without the other modifications listed above. It will add 
power.
Brakes. upgrading your brakes is quite easy. For those of you with solid rotors, you can upgrade to vented rotors. 
Just buy the rotors and the pads from a car that has them . 9.4" vented rotors come on the 86 GTI. The 86 GTI also 
came with rear disk brakes. If you can locate one in the yard, pull the rear axle, and e-brake cables. If the master 
cylinder is there, take it as well, with the proportioning valves... It's that easy.
The U.S. spec GTI cam, came in the PF, RD, and RV motors. It provides .4" of lift, over the .393: of the other cams. 
I know it sounds like not much, but the inches of lift is one way to measure a cam. Duration at .05" of lift is 214 
degrees to the olders 210/209 for the intake/exhaust. That is a difference. The lobe center remains the same at 110 
degrees. The real interesting part is this. At .050" of lift, the GTI (or "g" cam) has the intake valve open at 
-2.8* BTDC, as opposed to -5.6* BTDC for the older cam. The GTI cam has the part number "026 109 101 G" and the 
older cam has the part number "026 109 101 A" To give you an Idea about how much this cam does infact make a 
difference... It has more lift and duration than the 1.7 and 1.8 solid lifter cam!!!!!!!!! Mmmmm, BEEFY!
The AFM loosening trick is done by removing the black cover, lossening the 7mm bolt that keeps the metal wire thing 
in place (you will understand when you open it up). Turn the black gear counter clockwise 3 clicks, and tighten the 
bolt down. It is really easy.
The 8v GLI dual downpipe is actually smaller than the Digi II GTI dual downpipe, and is an older design. The same 
downpipe is used on the 16v, and corrado G60, but the manifolds are a little different on the 16v. If you can find a 
dual from a 90-92 GTI digi II 8v, with manifold and cat, from someone parting it out, buy it. The cat is the 60x55mm 
cat... the largest and best flowing cat for any factory MK2. 
Digi II owners... I have been researching alot about the way our fuel injection systems work. It's that damn blue 
coolant temperature sensor that messes up our day. Well, no you have a solution. To get the best out of your 
ignition timing, replace your thermostat and fan switch with lower temperature ones, as well as add Redline's WATER 
WETTER to your mix. Your coolant will drop about 20 degrees, and the car will run better, and have more power 
because the coolant temperature sensor will feel colder coolant.
Adding the coolant modifications to your list of to do's is a must when intalling an adustable cam gear. When 
tweeking your cam timing, the car will run hotter, or cooler, depending on the setting. 3 degrees, might not be all 
that much in the world of advancing, but you will notice tremendous temperature increases. I ran a hydro head 86 
scirocco, with out a thermostat in the middle of winter, and the car would reach operating temperature with only 5 
degrees advanced!!!! If you think about it... I had constant coolant circulation, in 40 degree wheather, and a 
fridged air moving across the rad at all times. Be sure to mod your coolant system to accept the benifits of 
advancing your cam timing. 
Speaking of cam gears, they work in the manner of shifting your power band around. You get to fine tune the car to 
your driving privledges. If you cruise town more than the high way, you can advance your cam timing, to pull the 
power band lower, making your peak torque curve come sooner. The oppposite goes for retarding your timing. This 
shifts the torque and horsepower higher, for more at faster revs. I noticed with 3 degrees retarded on a slightly 
modified euro spec rocco, that I had a smooth low end, but it really started to kick in at around 4 grand. I also 
messed with advancing it, and I was happy at 3 degrees advanced. With out a cam, I couldn't fully utilize the gears 
power.
Lightening the load on your motor will have the same benifits as adding horsepower. Most companies make lightweight 
pullys for every honda under the sun. MK2 owners are not so lucky. You can do a little by buying a light weight 
Cam/Intermediate sprocket. If you plan to run with out an adjustable cam gear, you should buy two. The sprocket that 
drives you distributer and the cam sprocet are the same!!!! Replace both, and get a lightweight fly wheel, and your 
motor will rev quicker, and be alot more responsive. The downside to this is the idle will suffer a little bit, but 
the trade off is worth it. 
Electrical power is another important over looked part of the car. Most feel a Walmart battery and crusty cables 
will work fine as long as the car starts. In the scirocco, I ran upgraded Alternator to battery, battery to starter, 
and battery to ground wires, using 4 gauge wire, and gold terminals. I had better light output, no dimming, and 
enough juice do run the car, head lights and high beeams with 100w fogs, full stereo, heat, and wipers, as well as 
the power windows when I wanted a smoke... Never a dull, dim moment. I also used an optima deep cycle battery. I was 
never left stranded. Just piece of mind.
For everyone that wants a performance exhuast, but can't buy an over priced unit from TT or Neuspeed, you can help 
get your car to breath better with a few tricks. First and foremost... Our engines were designed to have back 
pressure on the exhaust stream. You WILL see about 5 HP if you empty the cat, but you will see a loss in torque. Get 
the dual outlet manifold as mentioned above, leave your cat alone, and look further back. Alot of Jettas have a 
bosel mid muffler, and a rear muffler. Buy a replacment resonator and either clamp or weld in the new one in place 
of the mid muffler. The Resonators are most likly straight through like a glass pack, but help to keep the annoying 
raspy sound come from your car. For a rear muffler replacment, you can go with anything your heart desires. Just 
makesure you buy the size your exhast is. If you have a custom exhaust shop near you, ask them some questions, as 
they might be able to fab you larger piping and mufflers cheaper than buying a bolt on kit from TT, or neuspeed. 
You more thing before i go to sleep... This is the #1 thing to help everyone... If the car isn't running right, 
don't modify it!!!!!!!! Getting your car running 100% will make a world of difference in performance and fuel 
economy. If it's broke... FIX IT! If it's not... MODIFY IT!!!!
Well, kids... here it is. Installment 4 of the difinitive cheap A$$ build up. Today we will be talking about 
suspension, engine mounts, lighting, things to look into when taking the motor apart to fix or replace things.
First off, suspension. Depending on your level of expertise with cars, you have different views about what to do to 
your suspension. Lowering the car is the first thing people try to accomplish, to give the more aggressive stance. 
How you lower it is another thing. Cutting your springs is the worst thing you could ever do. Springs on every car 
and aftermarket company come with what is called a "spring rate". The spring rate is the amount of force (measured 
in pounds per inch) that it takes to compress the spring. If your car has 135 lb/inch springs, it takes 135 lbs of 
weight, or force to compress the spring 1 inch. Now that you have a basic understanding of spring rates... cutting 
your coils shorten the amount of compression you have, while your spring rates stay the same. Cutting your coils can 
lead to serious problems with bump steer, and bottoming out. Spend the extra money to do the suspension right. Look 
at it this way. Do you want the only thing keeping you on the ground to be broken and rigged??? How safe do you feel 
now? Along with springs, comes shock/struts. Replace these whenever you put performance springs on your car. Look 
for shocks that will allow you to lower the car without any damage to the shock itself. KYB GT-2 work well, and are 
inexpensive. Tokico Illumina are quite inexpensive and are adjustable. You can look to spend anywhere from $50 to 
$100 per corner of the car, so buy what is in your budget.
If you are looking to just keep the ride hight factory, but want a little stiffer suspension, look for the factory 
special models. 8v GTI's and GLI's have more firm suspension, however, 16v springs have a higher spring rate, and 
the suspension from the factory was sportier. If you are looking for the way to go for next to nothing, find 16v 
suspension.
Tires and wheels are next on the suspension list. Many people don't realize that the size of your side wall has alot 
to do with ride comfort and performance handling. MK2's mostly came from the factory with 13's and 14's. Many want 
larger wheels and smaller tires for the look, but you will also see major gains in handling. The largest factory 
wheel found on the MK2's and 4 cylinder MK3's is 15". They came on the 2.0 liter 16v in BBS form. The G60 corrado 
also has a set of 4 lug BBS wheels availible, as well as 15" steel wheels!!! These are cheap, light and durable. If 
you are in the market for new shoes for the car, but can't buy new, check the classifieds. You will find plenty of 
wheels, some with tires for sale in any price range, and almost any style.
The last part of the suspension we need to talk about is the fifth spring. Yes boys and girls, your car has a fifth 
spring... the UNIBODY. Your vehicle was designed to flex and bend with suspension travel to make the ride more 
comfortable. The down side to this when racing on the track, or carving your favorite mountain road is that this 
gives an imprecise feel to the road. To help solve this, you can add stressbars. Stressbars tie the upper shock 
mounts together to help eliminate chassis flex. There are even some bars availible for the front lower A-arms, that 
keep them from pulling outward under hard acceleration. This helps to prevent tire wear, wheel hop, and most 
importantly... aids in traction.
Engine mounts are a huge part of how your vehicle will perform. The factory mount do their jobs by keeping the motor 
in the car, and making sure you don't hear it. This is great for grandma, but you want to go fast, amke noise, and 
generally have fun with the car. Those old floppy engine mounts just won't do. There are several ways to help keep 
the motor in it's place, and put more power to the ground. Some companies are selling solid front engine mounts. 
While these are really good in putting the motor in it's place and keeping it there, they are a little expensive... 
$100 or so. If you have owned your car for a while, and havn't replaced your mounts... 5 times out of 10, one is 
bad. You can replace them as they go, or you can purchase new ones for around $25 each, and go to Lowes. There, look 
for liquid polyurothane. Take the mounts home, and tape the bottoms tight, and both bolt holes. Take care of taping 
all of them up before you mix the poly up. You will have about 20 minutes of working time to use the poly, so make 
sure everythings is done before mixing. Let them dry for 24 hours, and cure. Replace each mount one at a time with 
the poly filled ones. Now you made your own mounts, and can put all that extra power down.
Jump to lighting. Lighting is important for two reasons. One, it helps you see... but it also helps you to BE seen. 
This will cost you nothing to do. When driving around, as the sun goes down... TURN ON YOUR LIGHTS!!!!!! You will 
feel more secure knowing that everyone can see you. Now, for an upgrade. You know how you go to an auto parts store 
and see the side repeaters that honda kids at to be more euro??? Well, you can use real euro parts, on your euro 
car... and never have to act the fool. This mod is real easy if you have the old black square wolfsburg badges on 
your fenders. In the junkyard, find an Audi 4000, and take the fender blinkers. Wire them up to blink with your turn 
signals, and viola'!!! Side repeters, the real euro way. As for actual head lights, I have found the best street 
legal DOT approved headlight out there for the public to buy is Sylvainia silverstars. These lights are bright, and 
blue-ish white in color. They are awesome in my opinion. Fog lights are another lighting subject. Using fog lights 
properly is another. I use mine at dusk when it is still too bright to use the headlights. Some people think I am 
trying to be cool... whatever. I just like having a wall of light in front of me if I think that soccer mom with 12 
kids in the excursion is too busy trying to fidget with make up than see my little GTI comming. Now I give her 
something to pay attention to. Buying fog lights from most local retailers is kinda a waste of money. If you are 
buying them to be seen, they are great, but if you are buying them for their intended purpose... don't even bother 
looking at a set that is less than $50. The money is worth it. 
I'll be back soon with more. We still have to talk about rebuilding, common problems that need fixed, things to do 
while repairing a motor that is apart, and how to make the best of the modifications listed here. 



_Modified by rocco8v at 4:06 AM 9-11-2004_


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

Rebulding, an important part of owning a high milage 8v. Alot of times, when you notice that you are burning oil 
rapidly, or you have a loss is power, it can be related to needing an over haul. Most people don't bother to rebuild 
the block with anything less than 200,000 miles. The reason is that the motors life span is higher than that. The 
common thing to do, is to rebuld the heads seals and wear parts. Replacing your valve stem seals is a common problem 
in our cars. After 14 years of driving, they get hard and brittle, and leak oil... into the combustion chamber. You 
can replace these while the head is on the car, but special tools are required, and the process can be a little 
tricky of you are unskilled in tearing apart a motor. If you think you need to rebuild and refreash the head... Now 
is the perfect time to make some real horsepower. While the head is off the car, you can send it to the machine shop 
to check for trueness. If the head is mostly true, they will shave it a little to bring it with in factory specs. 
This will not add power, but if the head was warped, will make the car run smooth again. Another thing you can do 
with a low compression ratio 8v is deck the head. By shaving off .03" of the head, you can raise the compression 
ratio alot, while still being able to use pump gas. While the head is out, and at the machine shop, have it acid 
dipped, pressure checked and steamed. Make sure all the seals are replaced, and if you have the extra cash, go for a 
decent port and polish. These require a little more money and time to get done, but the gains are well worth the 
time and money spent. Since the head is out of the car, now is the best time to replace the cam with an aftermarket 
one, or get a three angle valve job at the machine shop. The options are pretty much endless, it just gets into some 
money.
If you can;t afford the port and polish, or three angle valve job, and still want to beef the head up, grab your 
dremmel and the port and polish kit from Wal-Mart. For 26 bucks, you can port match the intake and exhaust manifolds 
to the head for better flow. You can also polish the combustion chamber to prevent carbon build up. While at the 
auto parts store, get a VALVE LAPPING TOOL AND COMPOUND. This works to make the seal between the valves tighter by 
using a gritty compound to sand away at the areas on the valves and the head. That should run you around $20. Now 
that you are prepping the head for reinstallation, did you consider performance valve springs? Your factory springs 
will never lose their tension, but the after market ones will help to keep the valves closed at high RPM, and 
prevent coil bind. This is really nice when driving a CIS car. You can eliminate your rev limiter in a CIS car by 
replacing the fuel pump relay, which is a 5 prong realy for the standard turn signal, 4 prog relay. This keeps the 
car from telling the fuel pump to stop pumping, giving you the ability to rev it out a little more. I only recommend 
this mod for people that have solid lifter heads, or have replaced the valve springs with aftermarket ones, as you 
CAN DAMAGE THE MOTOR BY DOING THIS. I WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE TO YOUR MOTOR BY YOU DOING THIS. 
IF PROLONGED HIGH RPM DRIVING SITUATIONS OCCUR, YOU MAY INFACT THROW A CONNECTING ROD!!!!! PLEASE ONLY DO THIS IF 
YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, OR DON'T CARE ABOUT THE WELL BEING OF YOUR MOTOR.
Now that the head is back on the car, the valves are lapped, and the intake and exhaust is port matched, make sure 
you have an oil controller. If not, get one. It is the black plastic tray thasits above the cam. Trust me, your 
intake air will thank you. Next, replace your valve cover gasket with the one piece rubber one. It is a little more 
expensive, but worth the cost as this gasket will help prevent leaks.
Another way to help with performance is an external oil cooler.
If you have an annoying buzzing and flashing light in your cluster, and can't get it to stop, even after replacing 
the sensors, and doing an oil change with the recommended oil, you can get rid of the noise forever. I would install 
a pressure gauge before I remove this first. Take your cluster out of the car, and crack it open. Be sure not to 
mess with the milage, as it is a federal offense. Behind the speedo in non CE II clusters is an electronic board. 
Tear it out. It controlls the oil buzzer and light. If you do this with out installing a gauge... and your car blows 
up... look in a mirror, I warned you.
While putting the motor back together it is a great time to replace all your belts, major hoses that look a little 
under the wheather, plugs, cap, rotor, wires, oil and do a coolant flush. With the head off the car it is much 
easier to check out everything in the motor compartment than it is to do it while the motor is together. My 
philosophy is this. If you have to take the car apart now... do you want to next week as well??? If you can afford 
the gaskets, and other parts, I would do the thermostat, water pump, gaskets and O-rings, clean everything up while 
the motor is apart, and get your battery and alternator checked out, just incase. Also, while working on your car, 
when the battery is out, DO NOT SET IT ON THE FLOOR IF IT IS CONCRETE. I don't know why, but the battery will drain 
like you left your lights on, and will be dead before tomorrow. Put a block of wood under it. 
The best cleaner/degreaser I have found... is PURPLE POWER. This stiff is great. It will take baked on stains off of 
metal at full strength, yet is dilutable enough to was the grease from your clothes. A gallon runs like $6, and is 
well worth it to clean the engine, and engine bay up... I mean "Hey, now is the time".
When you decide that you want to work on your car, and you feel confident that you can do it on your own, get a 
manual for the car. The bently manual is by far the best, even though they are pricy... if you can't afford one (I 
don't even own onw yet) you can get by with a Haynes manual. Remember to follow all torque specs and bulletens 
listed as they are just tring to help. Always disconnect the negitive batter terminal brfore starting to work on the 
car. 
Making the most out of the modifications listed below is quite easy. Half the jobs listed here take less than 2 
hours to complete, and will infact make serious gains, without spending serious money. Just remember this. One gain 
leads to another. By putting a K&N filter in, you notice a gain. By chopping the air box, you notice more, by 
opening the exhaust you notice more. They will all help eachother out. If you gain 5 hp from a cat back... and only 
3 from the intake... you may see a 10hp gain total, as the modifications help eachother more than they do as a 
standalone. 
Feel free to email me about any questions you may have regarding any mods listed here or if you want to purchase 
some performance parts. I discount all my parts to help the VW community, not my wallet. For example... TT sells an 
aluminized cat back with a magnaflow muffler for around $300. I sell an Autotech cat back system, with a dynomax 
muffler, including a lifetime warrenty on the muffler, and a 2 year warrenty on the tubing for prices starting at 
$225 plus shipping. List on the $225 exhaust from me is $249 plus shipping. The same shipping rates apply when 
ordering from me, or Autotech, as the part will come from the warehouse regardless who orders it. Performance cams 
start at just $99 plus shipping. Where else can you find a 270 degree cam for $99, brand new, in box with lifetime 
warrenty???????
On to drivetrain. There are a few things to consider when building a street car. Where will you be driving, what 
conditions you might come across, and how often will you be driving. Another thing to consider is comfort. If your 
car is only for nice days, and cool autumn nights, kinda like a play toy... comfort and drivability are some what 
lower on the list than performance. If you plan on driving the car daily, these two things are higher on the list as 
well as fuel economy. This is where your drivetrain comes in. I know what your saying, how does my transmission keep 
me comfortable??? 
Well, in all honest, it is a matter of preference. The first thing I will talk about is the transmission. Too 
sporty, and your car will be buzzy and loud on the highway. Too subtle, and your car accelerates like a slug in 
canada. Most poeple take the trade off, and go for the best performance, but complain about the other. The sportiest 
trans VW released was trans code 4K. This trans is all about acceleration. I have never owned on, but anyone who 
knows will tell you, this trans can make stock VW's quick. The trade off is the buzzy nature on the highway, and 
lower top speed (if that even comes into consideration). One of the longest ratio 5 speeds I know of, is the FF. 
It's gearing is so long, that i raced a turtle in my old cabby, and lost. This trans if built to handle it, would be 
great for boost. I was looking for a happy medium, and I think I found it... the AUG. This trans has great pick me 
up if the right motor mods are done, and still has a happy highway cruising speed. (65mph at about 3200 rpm). 
Another, more availible trans is the 9A. the gearing is very close, but second gear is different. The AUG has a 
great country side cruising speed in forth gear (40 mph at 2k), but will allow the car to accelerate quickly when 
the pedal is put down. Depending on what you are looking for, and what you want the trans to do, find the ratios 
that are right for you.
Clutches are another big one. If you have the cash, you can find Sachs racing clutches... around a grand for 
everything... but this isn't you... your reading the cheap A$$ build up. The place to start is in the pressure plate 
(PP). You can order a 16v PP alone, and mate it to an 8v clutch for increased clamping force. This mod will allow 
your 8v up to about 170 hp before slipping is an issue. The kit (PP, Disk, TO bearing, new plate and spring clamp) 
should run in the ballpark of $129.95, and will be able to handle the abuse of racing, and daily driving. The nice 
part is, pedal feel is not changed...
Speaking of pedal feel, 8v's came with 2 different types of clutch cables, the self adjusting, and manual adjusting. 
Both are good for something, but if you plan on building your car for racing of any type, get the manual adjusting 
cable. You have to set it up yourself, and then you can adjust your pedal feel. Once adjusted, the cables settings 
will never change, unlike the self adjusting one. These work great, until they adjust too far, then it's too late. 
When they go bad, so does your clutch.
Axles are another concern. There are 2 types of axles made by VW. 90mm, and 100mm. They are not measured by the 
length, but by the flange that you bolt on to the trans. You cannot mix and match them with out swapping parts. When 
shopping junk yards for your perfect trans, make sure you know the size of the axles, and weather or not you have 
them, or need them. I know the G60 axles are the strongest in the MK2 chassis, and are 100mm flanges, making them a 
perfect swap into any car with 100mm flanges. 
Shift kits. These are important because this adds to driver comfort mentioned above. When you shorten the motion 
required to shift from gear to gear, you have less required movement by the driver, and this mod can actually change 
your seating position. Weighted shift rods increase the force thrown by shifting gears, causing a more positive 
shift. Less effort is needed by the driver, and this actually helps you not to miss gears when shifting. You can 
find weighted shift rods in MK3's. As long as the length is right, and the position of the mounting lines up, they 
are a direct bolt in. If you have linkage that doesn't line up, you can make your own. Just wire tie, or hose clamp 
a chunk of metal to your stock rod. You will feel a difference in throw. You can fab your own short shifter, but it 
requires cutting, drilling and possibly welding (to do it right) I recommend this mod to be left to the pros, as 
they normally only charge $70 to $100 for a kit, and it may even come with a shift weight.
Comfort is another issue we have been talking about here. For all the base model owners, find yourself the high 
model ends interior, and install it in yours. I have done everything from power windows and door locks, to factory 
sport seats and door panels. Your mood will change in your car when options you never had before are there. I had an 
old 86 2 door golf... CIS, 8.6:1 compression ratio motor, bone stock, with an 87 GTI interior, power windows and 
locks, cruise control, alarm, keyless entry, and a great stereo. The car was comfortable, and had a great smell 
(factory pleather). I loved driving it because I was comfortable.
Speaking of comfort, changing your steering wheel can help alot. Just remember 10/89 and lower vehicles had a small 
spline steering wheel, while 11/89 and newer have the big slpine. I know of no adapter to swap them, and you can't 
do it unless you change your seering column.
Now for the exterior. Not much can be done using factory parts to make yours look better, but there is some hope. 
Early MK2 owners and MK2 scirocco owners can fit Big Bumpers on the car. The scirocco requires trimmin, but if you 
want to know what one looks like, email me, and I'll send you a photo. The easiest way to make the MK2 cars look 
good is the big bumper treatment, with flares and skirts. If they are a little too hard to find, you can buy 
aftermarket big bumpers, or go real euro and do euro bumpers. Scirocco owners, the easiest thing for you to do is 
aquire a 16v scirocco body kit. My old one was put on, in flat black with black bumpers to mimic the european GTX. 
Jetta owners, find GLI's and take the trunk lid for the wing. Golf owners can take the hatch from a GTI for the 
upper spoiler that mounts throught the glass. In the aftermarket scene, one of the biggest, most outstanding thing 
you can do is change your lighting, from one factory kit to another. Going from the aero (rectangle composite) 
lights to a single round badgless grill makes a dub look mean. Find the lights you like and go for it. Upper grill 
spoilers also add a touch of grit to the cars look, but in a tastful way. The aftermarket is full of comanies that 
sell these kits, just shop around for the best price. One other thing you can do to make your car look different is 
to use Big Doors. The actual size of the door is the same, but they got there name for having a larger window, 
without a split. These make an older dub look newer, as they came on the later model MK2's.

_Modified by rocco8v at 4:10 AM 9-11-2004_


_Modified by rocco8v at 4:04 PM 9-17-2004_


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

Ok, so I have decided to list a few facts about turbo charging your 8v powerplant. I have been doing a lot of 
research on this, and, I know this is the 8v FAQ, but alot of people new to the forum see this thread before they 
venture into boost. The information in this post is gathered from multiple posts and sites that i have gathered, 
although nothing is directly plagurized.
Stage 1 8v turbo project: 200 hp
Find a low milage 8.6:1 c/r block, or a set of G60 pistons and rods.
Get yourself a good deal on a G60 head and wiring, with sensors. The g60 had sodium filled valves, and the head, and 
cam were designed for boost. Make sure to get the intake manifold and throttle body as well, as this will make the 
easiest set up.
You now need a turbo, and manifold. You can get the manifold from various parts suppliers, EIP, 8vturbo.com, 
aptuning.com... ebay. Look for killa on the tex, http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1005282 . He can get good 
brand new turbos, cheap. I will either be buying mine from him, or getting the EIP do it yourself kit. You can also 
get them from a junk yard. Saab 900's, Ford T-bird turbo coupes, Nissan 300zx's, whatever you can find that has a 
T-3.
Corrado, metal headgasket. ARP Headsuts. Stage 4 G60 chip. Porsche 944 FPR, Blowoff valve, and intercooler. Plan 
ahead where everything will bolt up and run. 
Next get a set of either G60 or 1.8T plugs. Get a better set of plug wires, although not really neccesary. Look for 
a manual, or electronic boost controller, and oil lines, and fittings for your turbo lube.
Bolt it together, check for boost leaks, and squeal some tire. I would start out at around 5 to 7 PSI and test the 
system, before bumping it up to 13 to 17. You will be grinning from ear to ear.
The only thing i think I want to do different is...
I will buy the EIP starter kit for the turbo, manifold, lines, downpipe, and accesories. I will then next buy the 
SDS standalone managment system, with fuel and spark. Use a 16V block, with G60 rods and pistons. G60 Head, worked. 
Now I can program my own fuel curve, and ignition curve as well. I can also monitor everything going on with my 
motor. I would also definatly suggest upgrading to 2.5 inch exhaust, with a high flow cat, and straight through 
muffler. Turbo cars tend to be quieter that N/A cars... you wont wake up the neighbors.
As promised by me earlier... here are your trans codes...
020 Transmission Specifications Codes located at bottom of Bell Housing
CODE R&P 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Overall Flanges Switch Mount 
2H 3.94 3,45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.59 90mm Large Stud 
2Y 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.34 100mm Small Both* 
4K 3.94 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.46 90mm Large Stud 
4S 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.96 100mm Large Hole 
4T 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.75 90mm Large Stud 
4Y 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.34 90mm Large Stud 
6G 3.65 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.59 90mm Large Stud 
7A 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.80 90mm Large Stud 
7D 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.25 0.91 0.71 2.80 90mm Large Stud 
7G 3.65 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.32 90mm Large Stud 
8A 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.75 90mm Large Stud 
9A 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.27 100mm Large Hole 
ACD 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.27 100mm Small Both* 
ACH 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.96 90mm Large Hole 
ACL 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.75 100mm Large Hole 
ACN 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.75 100mm Large Hole 
AEN 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.27 100mm Small Both* 
AGB* 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.34 100mm Large Both* 
AGS 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.96 100mm Small Hole 
AMC 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.80 2.94 100mm Small Hole 
AON 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.75 100mm Small Hole 
AOP 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.96 100mm Small Hole 
APW 3.67 3.45 1.75 1.37 0.97 0.85 3.20 90mm Large Hole 
ASF 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.75 100mm Small Hole 
ATH 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.75 100mm Small Hole 
AUG 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.27 100mm Small Hole 
AVX 4.25 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 3.19 90mm Small Hole 
AWY 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.51 100mm Small Hole 
CHE 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.80 2.94 100mm Small Hole 
FD 3.89 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.54 90mm Small Stud 
FF 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.76 2.96 90mm Large Stud 
FH 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.76 90mm Large Stud 
FJ 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.76 90mm Large Stud 
FK 3.89 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.54 90mm Small Stud 
FM 3.89 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.54 90mm Small Stud 
FN 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.76 90mm Large Stud 
FO 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.76 2.96 90mm Small Stud 
there are the 020 trans codes...
This Post is to update all Digi II owners on what chips are still availible for our injection systems. Alot of 
speculation is flying around as to what is actually still out there. I recently made some phone calls, and talked to 
some reps about what each company can do for us. Here is a difinitive list as of the date on this post...
Techtonics Tuning carries a DIGI II chip. Power increase is quoted at 4 to 5 hp, however TT claims there chip will 
work in only 1/3 of the ECU's, Bosch being the brand of choice. The price of the chip... $110 plus shipping. The 
chip also comes with a Knock Sensor spacer, available by itself from TT. 
For those of you who can read German... here you go. This link is to a german tuning site, that claims to carry the 
DIGI II chip as well. The gains look pretty substantial from the numbers I can read, however, it is unknown at this 
time if the chip will actually work in our cars or not. Here is the link: http://www.powertec.at/datenbank/vw.html
VW_Pilot apparently still sells the CSW chip. This chip works well for the price, however doesn't fix alot of the 
problems, but for the money, drivability is increased. Here is the link to his post: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=284195
SNS Tuning does infact carry 2 chips for the Digi II injection. One is designed for a cam, and the other without. 
Not much is known what the chip does as a whole, however, each chip only runs you $39!!!! It may be a cheaper 
alternative to some of the other chips on the market. Here is the link to their site: http://www.snstuning.com/
Last but not least, AMS. Anyone you have talked to that owns this chip, will tell you. It IS the difinitive chip for 
DIGI II. This chip not only adds more fuel, but aggressive ignition maps as well. It completely ignores the coolant 
temp sensor once warmed up, and drivability and power are better than ever. Your Rev limiter is raised to 7000 as 
well. AMS however doesn't list this chip on their site, but it is STILL AVAILIBLE!!!!! Call AMS directly at 
(310)-763-8000. Talk to the rep and make sure you have your ECU type and number handy. This chip will set you 
back... $200 to $250. 
There you have it. If you have anymore information on Digi II chips, please feel free to shoot me an IM, and I will 
edit my post. 
Now that I have covered turbo charging I wanted to give you Digi II owners some hope on the supercharger end. Bahn 
Brenner will be releasing a twin screw kit for the 88 to 92 digi II injection. Exspect prices to start around 
$2500, but add about 60% more horsepower. 
As for tune up items. Always use a Bosch cap and rotor when tuning up your car. Not because the dealer wants you to, 
but because they are the best. Brake pads are another wear item that you may have to swap from time to time. I'll 
have numbers to back up my statments here in a day or so, but I'll post my opinions now, and back them up with facts 
later. When replacing your pads, you can choose any type you wish, from mettalic, to semi's to ceramic. Ceramic pads 
are Awesome. They give off very litte dust, if any at all and last a long time, though they are a little pricy. 
Stick witn Mintex Red box pads. For around $50, you get the best from the street and racing world, all wrapped in 
one box. The other thing is, the pads will probably outlast the rotors.
Well, I am back to bring you the next installment of the Cheap A$$ build up. Let me just say thins before I move on. 
The reason behind writing this article was not to tell everyone how to tune their cars, nor was it the end all be 
all guide, it is just a reference of information, I have gathered over the past 5 years while searching for the best 
way to make my car perform. Using factory parts ensures reliability for the rigors of daily driving, while helping 
your car to achive a level of performance that you may otherwise never had. Tonight I will be steering the guide in 
a new direction. From Motor swaps, to hybrids, to aftermarket support. Even though these things cost alot more than 
the regular trip to the salvage yard, these are processes that should be considered. Why spend countless hours 
tuning your lowly 8v, when you can swap in a 16v, and achive instant power??? Why buy aftermarket heads, and cams, 
and headers, and a ton of parts, when for a few hundred more dollars, you can have a VR6, and really make some 
power??? I'll tell you why. It's for the love. The love of the VW roots. the 8v is the original. The GTI came with 
an 8v, and was the original pocket rocket. Back then honda's couldn't keep up. The 8v is a perfect balence of torque 
and horsepower, especailly in the smaller cars. I think the 2.0 liter crossflow is a motor good for swapping, but in 
the MK3 and MK4, it is the base model motor that leaves much to be desired. Don't get me wrong, these motors can 
make power... and lots of it. But the old saying falls into this motors category... "speed costs money... how fast 
do you want to go?" 
When embarking on a trip to the yard, at least for me, idea's pop into my head. Will an Audi 5000 turbo motor bolt 
in? Can I fit a 2.0 liter 16v in my budget? Should I try this, or that? Everything changes when I open my wallet, 
but the dream is still there. That brings us to MOTOR SWAPS. A swap is a great thing, if you have the shop to do it 
in, the motor waiting, and all the bugs have been worked out, and everything bolts in. The problem is, that this 
never happens. If you are looking to do a motor swap, depending on the swap, allow the correct amount of time to get 
it done, and done right. You can swap a 16v into a digi II car, and use the digi II injection system, but your rev 
limiter stays at 6500, just when things get fun. You can swap in a VR6, but that requires much more work than 
pulling the old motor out, and installing the new one. Even a G60 is a hard task to undertake, especially with the 
modifications you must do to get the clutch to work. All and all, motor swaps can be the way to go to fix your power 
issues, if the money and time is right. The easiest way to get more juice outta your 8v is to put an ABA block in.
Swapping in an ABA block is almost as easy as pulling yours out, and putting it back in. There are somethings to 
take into consideration when doing this. The distributer is different, and must be adapted.The ABA is 16.5mm taller 
than the regular 1.8 liter block, so you may need a new downpipe, or a spacer. The accesories are driven off of a 
serpentine belt, rather than multiple V-belts. If you can get all the ABA accesories, and adapt them to fit, and 
work, you can even keep your AC. The point is it is very doable, and can even be finished in a weekend for the 
mildly skilled person. Do your research, and take the time to do it right. Here is what TT says about the swap. They 
mention the breather block off plate as well. Take a look: 
Engine Swap Notes for the 2.0 ABA Engine. 
1. If you are installing the engine in a A1 or A2 Chassis you will find it easier to use the ABA shortblock rather 
than the complete engine.
2. When you buy the "short block" (basic engine w/o cylinder head) insist on getting the distributor. You will need 
the distributor drive gear (located on the bottom of the distributor). You will also will need to buy a TT 
distributor adaptor ring. This will allow the installation of your original distributor in the ABA block.
3. If you are installing the engine in an A2 chassis (‘85-’92) get the ABA exhaust manifold and downpipe. You need 
the A3 downpipe or a TT downpipe in order to accomodate the taller block.Your original downpipe will interfere with the chassis. The A2 & A3 dual outlet manifold will not work on the A1 
chassis cars.
4. If you are installing the engine in an A1 chassis (‘75-’84 Rabbit, ‘75-’88 Scirocco, ‘80-’84 Jetta, ‘80-’94 
Cabriolet, and ‘80-’83 Rabbit Pickup) you may need a dual outlet manifold unless your car allready has one. They 
will be standard on the ‘75-’81 models. You will also need a TT downpipe made for the "tall block" engine. They are 
available in cat or non-cat configurations.
5. The ABA engine comes with a breather on the front of the block and the A1 and A2 cars are set up for a breather 
outlet in the valve cover. You will need a TT block off plate kit to solve the problem. The TT kit includes all you 
need to plug the holes for the breather and crankshaft position sensor. The CNC macnined plate is drilled & tapped 
for mounting the warm up regulator (used on the early A1 & A2 cars).
6. The headgasket you need to use when installing a 1.8 liter head on an ABA block is TT’s part number 198.137. Do 
not use the 1.8 or the 2.0 ABA headgasket.
7. The ABA engine has 10-1 compression ratio and a knock sensor ignition system should be used. If your car wasn’t 
originally equipped with a knock sensor you can retrofit one from a ‘85-’87 GTI or GLI that uses CIS injection. You 
can lower the compression by machining the dish in the piston crown to a larger size. If you drop the compression 
ratio to 9.2-1 you can run w/o a knock sensor. 
On to the aftermarket. Things to consider when going this route:
Can I fit these parts in my budget?
What will it do for me?
Is there a warrenty on this?
All these things and many more should be addressed. If the money is right, and so is the warrenty... then get what 
is right for you. The most common aftermarket parts people buy is exhaust, intake, chip, cam, header, clutch, and 
pulleys. While, I believe these things are good, not all are availible for you. MK2 owners can't get underdrive 
pulley for the 1.8 liter 8v, but you can get the camshaft and intermediate sprockets replaced with light weight 
ones. A cam is a great investment, but should also be bought with caution. Too big, and you will need other parts 
replaced to use it, and too small..."What was the point?". Keep in mind a cam will work best with intake mods and 
exhaust, as well as cylinder head porting and polishing. When looking into purchasing parts, always ask questions. 
Learn what you are buying and what it will do for you. If you don't know... ask. If your not told, don't assume. And 
most importantly, be spacific. If you are not, you could buy the wrong part, find this out after installing it, only to be unable to return it later.
I mentioned before about "the perfect 8v" and I thought I would let everyone in on the frankenstein motor combo that 
might get you thinking. Here it is:
G60 Head
G60 block
Digi II pistons and rods
16v crankshaft
using all stock parts... digi II dual outlet manifold for the exhaust, and the newer style intake manifold. Replace 
the G60 cam with a factory "G" cam mentioned above. Now you have the best flowing head, 10:1 C/R, forged crank with 
oil squirters, stock 8v. Running on digi II you could chip it with the AMS chip, and raise the compression a little 
with a group A headgasket. This should yeild 10.6:1 C/R, and be a demon... 
First, upgrading your brakes can be quite easy and very benificial. I already listed the vented rotors install, but 
the rear disk brake conversion is easy as well. I grabbed the complete axle and ebrake cables, as I figured it would 
be easier. If you plan to not grab the axle, get everything down to the stub axles. Make sure you take the ebrake 
cables as they are not interchangable. Also, grab the master cylinder and proportioning valves. If you don't trust 
these parts from the yard, you can order the new master cylinder from the auto parts store. Another interesting 
thing about master cylinders is that Audi 4000 MC are about half the weight of the VW, and flow better. I am tired, 
so I'll clean this post up later.
VW factory wheels leave alot to be desired in most cases. For better performance, and acceleration, lighter wheels 
should be considered. The VW Teardrop wheels are the softest wheels I have ever seen. I have seen butter with more 
integrity than these wheels. They are also the heaviest VW made at the time. Weighing in at over 14 pounds each, you 
can do better. If you own these wheels, look around in the classifieds for lighter wheels to get better 
acceleration, or go to the yard, and find a matched set of lighter alloys. 
I'll be back with more info as soon as I get to it. I'll try and make the next update larger, and more informative. 
If you have read this entire thing, feel free to post your feelings on it so far, as I will be editing it and proof 
reading it, and reposting this as one complete post. Let me know what you think. If you have any questions, please 
post them, and I'll try and help out. 



_Modified by rocco8v at 4:16 AM 9-11-2004_


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

To The Top. Feel Free to post any questions you may have, or email me with info.


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

Nice write up Fran, thank you.....


----------



## V_dubber03 (Mar 12, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*















that alot of info I think this post gonna help alot of 8vers and save a tons of people repostin great job man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (V_dubber03)*

No problem guys. If you need any parts cheap, hit me up, I'll hook you up.


----------



## jueve grande (Oct 21, 2001)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

Best thread EVER! (except for my conair supercharger lol)


----------



## Redrocco83 (Jan 29, 2004)

Metal Valve cover gasket.
think you mean rubber.. but thats a good writeup.. thanks a lot.. I'm sure I'll be contacting you to get some parts


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (Redrocco83)*

Cool, I can't wait to help you out.


----------



## jfg69 (Mar 19, 2003)

*Re: (rocco8v)*

Fran.. great thread!
I will have to be replacing a head gasket very soon. I want to put together my parts and do it all at once.
I have a 91 Golf 4dr/ 1.8/auto (yeccch...) hopefully doing a ABA block/5 spd conversion eventually.
For now, I am looking to buy a head for my 1.8 block to have prepped and ready to bolt on. What would be the top 2 or 3 heads to look for (aside from the G60), and what cam would you recommend for an auto trans (wish I could do some mods on that POS







...) 
Jerry


----------



## vwest (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (jfg69)*

Sweet, im doing the AFM trick tomorrow http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (vwest)*

Since you already have a digi II head, it really is the best head. I would look for other parts to make power. Replace your cam with a mild perfromance (autotech 270, runs about $115 to your door) get a PF dual downpipe or header, adjustable timing gear, AFM trick, Chip, and exhaust. These will be the best mods to do. Email me at [email protected], or IM me here, and we can talk.


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (rocco8v)*

I wonder if it is possible to make this a sticky??? I will try and proof read it, and such, and maybe we can make this stay in the 8v forum...


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (rocco8v)*

that would be pretty nice considering that I've already printed it out to make sure I have it saved








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GodSquadMandrake (Feb 17, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

Hey Rocco, do you have any info on that old article where a guy welded a piece of angle iron to his rear beam? Made a poor mans sway bar. It was a good write-up if you could add that here.


----------



## AudiobahnJetta (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (GodSquadMandrake)*

Sent you an IM...and BTW...you are my hero


----------



## baomo motorsports (Sep 6, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

good write up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
very thorough


----------



## MBRACKLIFFE (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (baomo motorsports)*

Do you know more about this factory driveability fix that you mentioned..? Plugs in between the VAM and its harness.?? I would like to know more please..


----------



## 83Rabbit (Dec 15, 2000)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*


_Quote »_but can't buy an over priced unit from TT


Im a firm believer that the TT unit is the best price for what you get in terms of aftermarket exhaust and quality.

That said, GREAT writeup!!!
may want to organize it a little more for CIS and DIGI II cars, you seem to 'flip flop' between the two often


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (83Rabbit)*

I was thinking of trying to get the vortex moderators to approve this as a sticky, and proofread the entire thing, and organize it as well. It would make everyones lives easier to be able to read this at a moments notice. We will see.
As for the digi II drivability fix here is your part number: 025 906 302A
When I talked to a dealer, they said that for most 92 GTI owners it was in place from the factory, as a fix for the problems digi II has. I asked about availibility, but had to leave abruptly, and never found out. Call your local dealer and find out what they have to say.


----------



## vsynchronisieren (Oct 13, 2004)

amazing post; very well done. thank you.


----------



## jfg69 (Mar 19, 2003)

*Re:*

Fran, any idea where I can get casting numbers for heads? Cant seem to find anything. I just picked up a german digi head to swap my mexican head with when I do my head gasket and was curious to know what the hell it is.


----------



## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

Not too bad. You have some good advice here. But there are a few areas where I would strongly disagree. 

_Quote, originally posted by *rocco8v* »_<snip>
The Tornado Fuel Saver will add power!!!!!!!! The tornado works on the priciple that it will pull air into the 
motor, kinda like adding a very small turbo. At top end, it will add about 1 to 2 psi. This would be great for CIS 
cars, but digi II owners can run into small problems without the other modifications listed above. It will add 
power.
*1 to 2 PSI!!!*. You need to measure things before you make a post like that. 
I run a "cowl induction" setup on my A1 diesel Jetta. At 70mph, I get about 3 to 4 inches of water higher intake manifold pressure with the cowl induction setup than with the stock intake plumbing. That's 0.11 PSI to 0.14 PSI. There's no way you get even 0.5PSI from an unpowered device. And with the stock intake plumbing, you are very unlikey to see more than 10% of the gain I get by taking air from a very "high pressure" area at the base of the windshield. There's no way you'll get 1 to 2 psi of "boost" without a powered high volume compressor of some kind (supercharger, turbocharger or maybe a very high flow fan or blower device). 
The "Amazing Tornado Fuel Saver" is snake oil. I know people who have tested a couple of these devices on a couple of different cars. They do almost nothing. Your acceleration might be slightly better because your wallet will be a little lighter, but that's about it. 


_Quote, originally posted by *rocco8v* »_Brakes. upgrading your brakes is quite easy. For those of you with solid rotors, you can upgrade to vented rotors. 
Just buy the rotors and the pads from a car that has them . 9.4" vented rotors come on the 86 GTI. The 86 GTI also 
came with rear disk brakes. If you can locate one in the yard, pull the rear axle, and e-brake cables. If the master 
cylinder is there, take it as well, with the proportioning valves... It's that easy.

The early A2 GTI's did have rear disc brakes, and they are good donors for a disc brake swap. But they used a load sensing pressure regulator at the rear suspension, not the inline proportioning valves. If you get the rear discs for an A2 car, use the *disc brake specific* load sensing regulator. I generally don't recomend rear discs for an A1 car. If you must do rear discs on an A1 car, the cheaper and more flexible alternative is to use the *disc brake specific* A2 load sensing regulator. Some fabrication is required to mount that regulator on an A1 car, but it's far more flexible than the 16V $cirocco prop valves.
If you swap rear discs onto your car, get the rear stabilizer bar (part of the rear beam on A2 cars) and the rear springs from the donor. The rear disc brake setup is 6 1/2 pound per wheel heavier. That's unsprung weight and it will have a negative affect on handling. Stiffer springs and stiffer stabilizer bars help to control the extra weight and minimize the handling penalty of the rear disc brakes. 

_Quote, originally posted by *rocco8v* »_The U.S. spec GTI cam, came in the PF, RD, and RV motors. It provides .4" of lift, over the .393: of the other cams. 
I know it sounds like not much, but the inches of lift is one way to measure a cam. Duration at .05" of lift is 214 
degrees to the olders 210/209 for the intake/exhaust. That is a difference. The lobe center remains the same at 110 
degrees. The real interesting part is this. At .050" of lift, the GTI (or "g" cam) has the intake valve open at 
-2.8* BTDC, as opposed to -5.6* BTDC for the older cam. The GTI cam has the part number "026 109 101 G" and the 
older cam has the part number "026 109 101 A" To give you an Idea about how much this cam does infact make a 
difference... It has more lift and duration than the 1.7 and 1.8 solid lifter cam!!!!!!!!! Mmmmm, BEEFY!

I agree that the RD/PF engine cam is the best factory cam for hydrualic lifters. And it is better than the 1.8L JH solid lifter cam (and the 1.7L cam). But mostly that's because the JH (1.8L) and EN (1.7L) engines had the wimpiest solid lifter cams of any of the solid lifter engines. 

_Quote, originally posted by *rocco8v* »_<snip>
Cutting your springs is the worst thing you could ever do. Springs on every car 
and aftermarket company come with what is called a "spring rate". The spring rate is the amount of force (measured 
in pounds per inch) that it takes to compress the spring. If your car has 135 lb/inch springs, it takes 135 lbs of 
weight, or force to compress the spring 1 inch. Now that you have a basic understanding of spring rates... cutting 
your coils shorten the amount of compression you have, while your spring rates stay the same.
If you cut the springs, the spring rate changes. The fewer coils you have in your spring, the stiffer the spring will be, and the higher the spring rate will be. That's part of what determines spring rate. 
However, I agree that cutting springs willy-nilly is generally a bad idea. However, if you pay attention to details and understand what you are doing, cutting springs can give satisfactory results. The important thing is to cut for spring rate, not to cut for ride height. Most factory springs are far superior in quality to aftermarket springs. When you start with the best materials, and you pay attention to engineering details, the results will be good. If you start with lower quality materials, even if the engineering is good, the results aren't as good for the long term.

_Quote, originally posted by *rocco8v* »_ Cutting your coils can 
lead to serious problems with bump steer, and bottoming out. Spend the extra money to do the suspension right. 
Lowering the car with aftermarket springs can also cause the same serious problems with bump steer and bottoming out. 
Generally speaking, lowering the car slightly isn't bad. But if you go beyond the point where the lower control arms are level, you are asking for serious handling problems. There are other changes you can make that will minimize the negatives and counteract some of the problems, but you really have to understand the geometry of the front suspension if you try to go beyond 1" to 1.5" lower than stock. 

_Quote, originally posted by *rocco8v* »_ Tires and wheels are next on the suspension list. Many people don't realize that the size of your side wall has alot 
to do with ride comfort and performance handling. MK2's mostly came from the factory with 13's and 14's. Many want 
larger wheels and smaller tires for the look, but you will also see major gains in handling. The largest factory 
wheel found on the MK2's and 4 cylinder MK3's is 15". They came on the 2.0 liter 16v in BBS form. The G60 corrado 
also has a set of 4 lug BBS wheels availible, as well as 15" steel wheels!!! These are cheap, light and durable. If 
you are in the market for new shoes for the car, but can't buy new, check the classifieds. You will find plenty of 
wheels, some with tires for sale in any price range, and almost any style.
Big diameter wheels and low profile, high speed rated tires are usually very heavy. The extra unsprung weight is a negative thing for handling and ride quality on anything other than a perfectly smooth paved road. There are some positives in the handling department from shorter sidewalls and bigger wheels, but none of those are as important as the weight of the wheel/tire package if you drive on typical roads (less than perfect surfaces, slighly bumpy in places). Try to stay under 35 pounds for the wheel/tire (inflated) package. If you can get under 30 pounds, the car will handle even better. It's awesome if you can get under 25 pounds per corner, but that's very difficult to hit. 
I don't have time to finish the post here, but there are some other areas where I don't completely agree, and some factual errors in the remaining parts of this post. I'll be back later to address the rest. 


_Modified by Racer_X at 9:44 AM 11-7-2004_


----------



## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

this thred may be from the dead but i have a question about using a turbocharger and manifold from a jetta TD would it be a virtual drop in instalation (i know it will be low boost, i am not looking for mega boost i want my car to remain reliable)


----------



## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

almost forgot, will the piping work too or do i need custom piping made?


----------



## rocco8v (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (MaxVW)*

You should create your own custom piping, as the turbo ones could work, but most just use custom stuff. You can then pick and choose the intercooler you want to use, and so on and so forth.


----------



## Speed Racer. (Sep 3, 2002)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

Awesome post(s). Thank you for taking the time to write all of that. You saved me a bunch of time and questions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## girdwood (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif awesome write up, but now my eyes hurt...and i know i won't remember even 1/20th of that later tonight








since you are knowledgable, i have a few Qs:
i'm planning on putting an aba bottom end below my cis-e head, what cam would be best to run? my focus for driving is all around...auto-x mainly.
and...can you get me a 3a short block for cheap?


----------



## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (BimmerBalla14)*

what are the advantages of having a 16v crank swapped with the original aba one ? ( will i have to use a 16v 2.0 crank? )


----------



## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (zero666cool)*

i believe that the only differences are that the 16v (if this is comming from the 9a motor) is forged and doesnt have the crank trigger wheel on it....
so lets say you get and obd2 motor and want a forged crank, there ya go....and i think the crank trigger wheels comes off of the aba one anyways so its really just a matter of what parts you have laying around.....


----------



## PrezeS-E36 (Apr 20, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (JediKGB)*

Isn't a early ABA (till 96) crank forged ?
Great stuff *Rocco8V*





















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AudiobahnJetta (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (PrezeS-E36)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PrezeS-E36* »_Isn't a early ABA (till 96) crank forged ?


Yes, and it has oil squirters


----------



## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (AudiobahnJetta)*

This is the greatest thread of all time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
If rocco8v was a chick i'd stalk "her"!








Your a god man, thank you so much!








STICKY THIS MOD'S PALEEEEZZZZZZE


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

racerx- off topic, but cowl induction, sucking air from the base of the windshield, is done in a LOW pressure area. unless you have a ram air setup where the intake duct is facing the front of the car. 
"The Cowl Induction functions on the principle of a low pressure zone close to the windshield created by the airflow going over it - similar to wings. "
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...39798


----------



## slammedGTIballer (Jun 23, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

you are a god


----------



## dab043 (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

MK3 swaybars are an upgrade, and fit.

I have a 92 Cabriolet, with a 8v. Will the mk3 swaybar bolt on?
INCREDIBLE write up, thanks and many


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (dab043)*

The MK1 sways are different than the MK2 and 3's/// so, no they won't fit.


----------



## JettaGTI_UK (Aug 20, 2005)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (kaputsport)*

Great write up man, ive been looking for all this info. I have been told some of the 91-92 8v's have oil squirters. Is this true? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (JettaGTI_UK)*

No it is not. Actually, the only 8v block that has oil squirters is the PG block, from the G60 Corrado.


----------



## JettaGTI_UK (Aug 20, 2005)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (kaputsport)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (slammedGTIballer)*

awesome thread! i like the digiII 8v stuff. i only knew of the temp sensor and AFM mod


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*

so much info... back from the DEAD
STICKY PLEASE


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (redzone98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redzone98* »_so much info... back from the DEAD
STICKY PLEASE
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MrWizard (Feb 10, 2004)

*Re: (redzone98)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 30link (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: (MrWizard)*

bump


----------



## A2_DeLand (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

This is the best thread i have read so far....so much info i love it...Ive started a VW MkII refrence book w/ chapters codes, DIY's, etc. and this is def getting its own chapter http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## adrianjr (Oct 9, 2005)

This thread is simply amazing. bump


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: (adrianjr)*

Thank you all so very much. It has been a long time in the process of gathering info, and piecing it together. I recently removed the 8v in the GTI for a 16v, so I have not been in the 8v frame of mind, I have however tried gathering more info, to not much avail.
I hope this thread can be of help to everyone, and i hope you get ideas of your own when using the methods i have placed here. None of the information listed here is the end all be all way to do things. It is mearly a guide.
Thanks again...
kaputsport... AKA rocco8v


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (kaputsport)*

HOW and WHY is this thread not a STICKY


----------



## veedub1991 (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

good right up


----------



## 1985golfgti (Nov 16, 2004)

great right up man lots of questions i wondered answered,only thing i disagree with is transmissions choice,definelty best i think is 2y didnt see anything about that tranny


----------



## vwpoorboy (Jul 11, 2005)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (veedub1991)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## elmer fud (Aug 5, 2003)

good read
sticky http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by elmer fud at 9:43 PM 4-26-2006_


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (elmer fud)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elmer fud* »_good read
sticky http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by elmer fud at 9:43 PM 4-26-2006_

bump it


----------



## rypivolks (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (redzone98)*

how can i tell if i have digi 1 or digi 2? and if i have cis or cis-e?
i have a 86 gti 8v 1.8L


----------



## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (rypivolks)*

digi 1 is a california only system
CIS-E has a knock sensor, CIS does not
take a spy at your ECU, its only under a plastic cover


----------



## 92-8valver (Oct 9, 2003)

*Re: (redzone98)*

there are 2 systems named digifant 1, one was a california only and the other was in the g60 cars


----------



## a2-8v-pgh (Aug 16, 2003)

one of the best threads ive read on here. heres to you man. love the digi 2 stuff, follow it on every car i have. however i have not yet been graced with a 535i afm.
sticky please.


----------



## blitz_bunny (May 22, 2006)

very nice thread, could use some editing, but i had not problem reading all 16 pages, and then saving them to word, thanks for the help....


----------



## Fleischwagen (Oct 22, 2006)

*Re: (blitz_bunny)*

Awesome write up, now I feel I have knowledge I need for swapping the 8v gti motor I have layin' around into my 'rocco http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dan88 (Oct 18, 2006)

very very good


----------



## crazee (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: (Dan88)*

this thread is freakin awesome! 
so much stuff i can use if i ever get my car running again..!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MK2SnowPilot (Sep 8, 2005)

*Re: (crazee)*

Back from the dead again bump LOL


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: (MK2SnowPilot)*

I have a feeling that the mods just don't understand that this is a sticky worthy topic, so here is what I will do. I am going to proofread this, and organize it. I will contact a Moderator directly, and ask that it be made a sticky, and direct him to the original. I will also ask that the post be locked, or that no one else post any info, after I set a draft out for you to critque.
We will see how it goes...
AND BACK FROM THE DEAD AGAIN!!!


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (kaputsport)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for a classic and if its not made a sticky I'll at least be able to find it again


----------



## G60orbust (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

please....
I bookmarked this AND copied it to file









MODS PLEASE!!!!! do us a flavor


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: (G60orbust)*

If the mods agree to making it a sticky, I will clean it up, and organize it for you guys...


----------



## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (kaputsport)*

Bump.
This should definitely be a sticky. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dubinprogress (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWCR8ZY (May 10, 2006)

*Re: (dubinprogress)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## third_eye92 (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (VWCR8ZY)*

back from dead. This is GREAT, now in my watched topics for quick reference
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Michael Jackson (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: (third_eye92)*

Bumpin' this thread...it's the perfect holiday gift! http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


----------



## GXL (Mar 31, 1999)

*Re: (Michael Jackson)*

Back from the dead as well, here








I'd like to know the following:
If I make the these modifications to my 1992 GTi 8v will it run like a stock 1.8 GTi 16v:
TT Catback system w/ dynomax = $230 (8hp gain)
TT Cat delete with Ox. sensor = $80 (5hp gain)
270 Autotech cam = $100 (7hp gain)
TT Adjustable cam Sprocket ($60 used)
TT chip $80.00 (7hp gain)

If I add all these numbers I come up with 27hp. So on paper my GTi 1.8l 8v will have 132hp. I'm not so sure it quite works that way and that's why I'm posting here.
Thanks,
GXL



_Modified by GXL at 2:02 AM 2-13-2008_


----------



## stntman (Sep 19, 2002)

*Re: (GXL)*

it wont run like stock but it wont run to rough either.


----------



## GXL (Mar 31, 1999)

*Re: (stntman)*

Any one else care to put their five cents?


----------



## 8valvinsleeper (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: (GXL)*

the bottom ends on these 8vs are extremely durable. For some reason, everyone assumes that compression loss in these motors is assosciated ONLY with blown head gaskets and piston ring failure. I have found that piston ring failure and cylinder wall wear is pretty uncommon for well-maintained 8vs and that the exhaust valve guides are more likely the culprit for power/compression loss. An insistive customer at my shop wanted me to replace the piston rings even after i did a leakdown test on his 8v with 44,000 miles. He barely drove the car and it just sat around and would spend a few weeks at a time being undriven. I did what he wanted and ripped the head off and replaced the piston rings and head gasket and just bolted the head back on and Surely enough, the exhaust valves werent seating correctly and he was losing compression in EVERY CYLINDER. What do you know, i was gettin 75 psi of compression in cylinder #4 of my own 8v and i did a leakdown test in my car 6 weeks ago. Rebuilt the head (all new valve guides, seals, full sandblast and decked the head. Now its 210 psi across all 4 cylinders. I was having terrible idling problems, my car would shoot blue smoke out the exhaust every time i started it up in the morning, my cat burned out, my 02 sensor burned out and i was fouling my #4 sparkplug every 6 months. Exhaust valve guides wear out more commonly with these motors than most people realize. My powerband was totally screwed up and i thought it was because of my hot cam but it was really just because my #4 exhaust valve wouldnt seat correctly unless the motor was running really hot or if it was running at 4,200 rpm or higher. A co-worker explained some big scientific explanation as to what was happening but i was too lazy to take notes. Its probably just because the valve had to be moving at a certain speed before it would straighten itself out and make a good seal to prevent compression loss. It felt like the motor was running at 75% power until 4,200 rpm no matter how i adjusted my cam timing. If anyone experiences this, they should investigate their compression across the cylinders and do a leakdown test. You cant really bend a valve on a non-interference motor but you can still burn valves, blow guides or get sticking valves which alot of people completely neglect because they figure "oh i drive an 8v, nothing can go wrong in the cylinder head".


----------



## mackamitsu (Apr 15, 2008)

*Re: (8valvinsleeper)*

#4 is my culprit for the valve guides. While the head is off I am doing them.


----------



## Bentley814 (Jun 19, 2008)

*Re: (8valvinsleeper)*

I need to do my valve seals and was wondering if you could give me a little info on the tools and procedure. I have done plenty of motor work in my day, just not the guides on these heads.
TIA, Bentley


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: (Bentley814)*

Bumping my thread again...
Back from the dead for the Newbies!!!!!


----------



## Winnipegger (Mar 25, 2008)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

ok so i want to do a junkyard turbo build,
im going to build the engine from scratch 
in my garage this winter and drop it
into a 1984 rabbit. i have some 
parts put togther ( they include, 
a 1992 diesel turbo. the deisel mani, 
a t3 amd intercooler out of a volvo 740, ) basically i need
to know wether the deisel mani bolts to 
the counterflow and or the crossflow,
or niether? what about the audi inline five turbo mani, 
turbo, and throttle body any of the bolt to them vw 8v's 
im not set on either enigine ( counter or cross flow, maybe even uh say 16v hybrid)
just which ever one will fit with junkyard parts.
we could maybe continue this through pm's and you could help
me figure something out









thanks 


_Modified by Winnipegger at 10:42 PM 8-2-2008_


----------



## mk2allday (Apr 27, 2007)

wow wow wow what a write up very impressed even 4 years later


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: (mk2allday)*

Mani bolts to the counter flow. Use that one, but it should also fit the cross flow with a little or no modifications.
Thanks for checking it out... I hope this helped you guys a little bit.


----------



## coltsjetter (May 7, 2008)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

The AFM loosening trick is done by removing the black cover, lossening the 7mm bolt that keeps the metal wire thing
in place (you will understand when you open it up). Turn the black gear counter clockwise 3 clicks, and tighten the
bolt down. It is really easy.

where is it located???


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (coltsjetter)*

The AFM is located on 88 through 92 VW Jetta, golfs, and GTI 8 valve motors attached to the airbox...
Your 86 does not have one.


----------



## merkasstrick (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (coltsjetter)*



coltsjetter said:


> The AFM loosening trick is done by removing the black cover, lossening the 7mm bolt that keeps the metal wire thing
> in place (you will understand when you open it up). Turn the black gear counter clockwise 3 clicks, and tighten the
> bolt down. It is really easy.
> just wondering dose obove apply. i got rid of the stock airbox and now have a newspeed with kn air filter


----------



## RendSever (Sep 9, 2008)

Bump! Why isn't this stickied, yo?

An what is this "snorkel" that is spoken of, to remove in the airbox? Is it the tapered inlet pipe leading in from the front?


----------



## bjmsdrum00 (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (RendSever)*

i agree. should be sticky! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## scirockinit (Oct 16, 2008)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

u ever heard of a electronic supercharger doing anything for CIS?
If u dont know what i mean the electronic supercharger is modded into the intake line and hooks to the batt. and pushes air in to the intake.
also mentioned is the cam upgrade To a digi2 gti. My friend just told me that in 91 and 92 all 8vs were the same except in Cali, So he said the cam for a Digi2 gti are the same as the Jetta Golf and GTI.... is this true? 
Throttle body: Audi 5000 and A2 golf/jetta CIS...Is this a direct bolt up to the 82 rocco?


----------



## tmechanic (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (scirockinit)*

Bwahahaha! You actually fell for that?
OK do a little math here, specs on a 120mm 12v fan say it move aprox 40cfm of air now you CIS at WOT pulls aprox 200 -250 cfm, or there about, so how much did you gain by placing this obstruction in your intake path?


----------



## scirockinit (Oct 16, 2008)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (tmechanic)*

I havent i figured since we had some 8V wizz's in here i would ask if it would work. I mean daamn if for $70 i can gain some horse's im all for it! But thats why i was asking about it.


----------



## tmechanic (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (scirockinit)*

NP, and at idle it will give you a little boost but once you start opening the throttle it becomes an obstruction, I loved looking at the pics on the Thorton site, they make it sound like you get a whole electric turbo, but the pic is of a standard turbo with what looks like an electronic waste gate.


----------



## gtikarl (May 7, 2009)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (tmechanic)*

i love it, lots of good stuff


----------



## Toadster (Nov 19, 2001)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

my eyes are tired! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vr2jetta (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

This thread is a perfect example of why you should do your research before trusting any 1 opinion!! There is a lot of great information in here but a lot of BS too. This guy sounds very intelligent and seems to know what he is talking about, but there are things in this write up that are just not true. Remember kiddies, do your research!!!
A tornado fuel saver may in fact provide extra power, but it will never produce boost! It simply sits there, not spinning.
Sitting your battery on the ground will NOT suck the charge out of it. I just replaced the motor in my Vanagon, the battery sat on the ground for a month and a half and started the van right up. Same for the Jetta, took the motor out to freshen it up, battery sat on the ground for a couple months and never died.
AFM spring trick=good stuff
dual downpipe upgrade=good stuff
Corrado or turbo injectors? I dont agree with this without doing additional research. I was running volvo turbo injectors in my old 8v and it was WAY too rich! Depends on the size of the injectors. Definatley get an air/fuel ratio gauge when doing mods like this!! Changing air flow and fuel delivery settings can cause big problems in your engine, causing lean or rich running conditions, which can lead to detonation or excessive fuel in the oil, neither of which is good.
I strongly agree with repairing a car before modifying it!! It aint gonna run right unless its in good working order!!
There is lots of good stuff here, and just because him and I dont agree on things doesnt make either of us correct. We could both be wrong! Thats the point I am trying to make. Be sure to do your research and obtain information from more than one source. 
All in all it was a good read!! Some good tips and tricks, but it is up to you to find out what is good and what is crap, thats how he found all this out, by working on his car!! Now get out there and do something and quit asking questions that you can find answers to!!


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (vr2jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr2jetta* »_
All in all it was a good read!! Some good tips and tricks, but it is up to you to find out what is good and what is crap, thats how he found all this out, by working on his car!! Now get out there and do something and quit asking questions that you can find answers to!!

The VW force is strong in this one!!!!!!


----------



## MadKatt_44 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (TheMajic86GTI)*

LMAO soo tru, he does bring up a good point


----------



## vwbeaner (Jun 4, 2007)

*None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:None:*

I sent Black Smokin' Diesel a message and hopefully this can get put in the mk2 DIY page. So hopefully it will be put in this thread 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4394156


_Modified by vw****** at 1:57 AM 11-15-2009_


----------



## Sagaris (Oct 10, 2009)

Rocco8v, I am going to go ahead and disagree with some of the information you posted regarding horsepower improvements and tell people reading this thread to research and think about performing some of these cheap "mods" before you waste time and money and possibly hurt the drivability of your car. 
As soon as you poseted about the Tornado fuel saver acting like a small turbo you lost all credibility. 
Messing with the AFM spring tension is just trouble. 
A lesson in thermodynamics would explain to you why the Tornado fuel saver doesn't work. 
It would also show you that using a lower temp. thermostat will decrease the efficiency of your engine. Running a lower temp. thermostat that causes your car to operate below the middle of the coolant gauge will also encourage carbon buildup.
You want your engine to run as hot as possible without delving into the unsafe temperatures that cause too much thermal expansion and break down the oil. Since most people would not be able to make these sort of calculations and assumptions, it is best to stick with the factory spec. thermostat. 
I wont go into some of the other fine points but again, think twice before performing any of these "mods", you may land yourself a heap of drivability issues. 



_Modified by Sagaris at 5:55 AM 11-15-2009_


----------



## tmechanic (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: (Sagaris)*

I'll gladly delve into that thermostat question for you, first, the temp sweet spot for most cars seems to be between 170 & 190, you'll find that people who live in more northern climates tend to run hotter thermostats, it isn't uncommon for guys out in Wyoming will grab diesel 210 stats for the long winter runs. When you start looking at the chipped guys trying to run 160 stats it's because they are advancing the ignition to the point where it would detonate severely if the engine were any warmer, the problem with this is that the fuel no longer atomizes properly, not as much of an issue if you're running direct port efi and trying to stuff alot more fuel through than normal to get that little bit of power boost, but you tend to get a really dirty exhaust. One of the keys to fuel for our engines burning efficiently is fuel atomization a very good example of this is the early 80s carbed GM 2.8l v6, it was designed to be so efficient at cooling that it had a hard time maintaining the 180 deg needed to atomize the fuel so they added a small heating grid in the base gasket so they could get it to run efficiently and a little more cleanly.
As far as adjusting the AFM tension, yeah, nothing but trouble, you mess with that and you completely change the entire fuel curve, you no longer know where it's going to run rich or lean and the freq valve and 5th injector will work overtime trying to get you back into the sweet spot, there is little chance they will be able to do it very long or well.
I end my pontification.


----------



## vr2jetta (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: (tmechanic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tmechanic* »_
As far as adjusting the AFM tension, yeah, nothing but trouble, you mess with that and you completely change the entire fuel curve, you no longer know where it's going to run rich or lean and the freq valve and 5th injector 

Ummmm, 2 different injection systems. Digi has no 5th injector.
I will have to agree with the thermostat statement though. The hotter a car can 'safely' run, the more efficient it will be. The reason for installing lower temp hardware is to account for the additional stress on the engine by adjusting timing and such. A more tweeked engine will run hotter more often and needs the additional cooling power.


----------



## scirockinit (Oct 16, 2008)

*Re: (tmechanic)*

So by me running a 160 degree thermo. in my stock 1.7l 8v im probably doing more harm then good? Should i switch back over to my 182? or 192?
The only reason why i put the 160 in was because during the summer the fan will turn off and on when in stop go traffic.


----------



## Sagaris (Oct 10, 2009)

*Re: (scirockinit)*

There will be many opinions on the subject, here is mine:
I have owned cars with lower temp. thermostats. I did not like it because the car would never reach the proper operating temperature. This hurts the fuel mileage ( because of reduced efficiency). I noticed that when the fan kicked in or when I was cruising on the freeway that the temp would drop a bit. I am not sure whether the low operating temperature would increase engine wear or not. 
One of the largest roadblocks to making internal combustion engines more efficient is the fact that the materials fail from high temperatures. If the engine block, head, and internals were made of a material that could withstand temperatures much higher than they currently do, then radiators would be done away with and efficiency would increase. Smokey Yunick supposedly has an "adiabatic engine" that runs at high temperatures and makes insane power but I have yet to come across any verification on that. I do know that the military has been experimenting with adiabadic engines for tanks. (adiabatic meaning that all/most of the heat produced during combustion stays in the engine, and is not dissipated by a radiator). 
Personally, I have seen better mileage and performance with stock thermostats as compared to low temp. thermostats. Thats my take. 
If you cannot get your car to run the proper temperature with the stock thermostat then running a cooler thermostat may be the bandaid that keeps your car from biting the dust. 


_Modified by Sagaris at 3:53 PM 11-16-2009_


----------



## Jam Heartbreaker (Sep 23, 2009)

Awesome thread, a lot of great info and discussion. Definitely worth checking out as a starting place for any research on modding.


----------



## tmechanic (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: (scirockinit)*

Yes, go back to your 180 deg thermo, unless you have some insane chip in your car, for the record, your fan is supposed to turn on and off in stop and go traffic, that's why you have a fan, at highway speeds the fan usually comes on very sporadically but it will turn off and on repeatedly in stop and go traffic, it needs to pull air through the radiator to cool it down. I'm not sure it's really hurting it, other than building up carbon deposits, but it is running less fuel efficiently.
Yes, I'm used to old CIS systems, you might not have a 5th injector but your computer will pull every trick it can to try and stay stiochometric.


----------



## marauder228vw (Jul 2, 2009)

Hello sorry to bother you. I own a 92 golf 8v but I would like to boost it but don't want to change the block, is it possible I could use the head from a g60 head and injectors and I guess manifold? I'm not looking for high numbers but make it faster than it is, thanks


----------



## machinistsdude1 (Dec 11, 2008)

*Re: (marauder228vw)*

this is good stuff thanks


----------



## g3mccotter (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: (machinistsdude1)*

from what ive read very helpful thank you. after i get a fox TB and intake mani i will prob reference back here for which cams to pull and the motor mounts idea. genius! now just actually installing them, all of them


----------



## MissHood (May 9, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rocco8v* »_You more thing before i go to sleep... This is the #1 thing to help everyone... If the car isn't running right, 
don't modify it!!!!!!!! Getting your car running 100% will make a world of difference in performance and fuel 
economy. If it's broke... FIX IT! If it's not... MODIFY IT!!!!
_Modified by rocco8v at 4:06 AM 9-11-2004_

I enjoy that you Didn't forget the most important fact of information http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Very useful info, Bookmarked http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jdnmk2 (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (BeatBox_kid)*

best thread, ill be referring to this many times in the future.


----------



## ibblkman (Nov 9, 2009)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (rocco8v)*

fantastic...lots of info. i'm looking for some suggestions... i'm looking to do a 2.0 swap in my 85 golf (cis). this is what i have... 95 golf CG, just raped a 85 golf GTI, ported and polished head with a G60 cam that has been decked. 4 to 1 header, 2.25 stainless cat back(no cat)flow max exaust. no snorkel on my air box with a k&n filter. working on a stage 3 intake from scientific rabbit. did the rear brake conversion already. plus all of the normal stuff like body kit, rims, tail lights, markers. its been dropped 2 inches. i'm looking to spank my buddys 93 mazda mx6 mystere (v6). what combo of parts should i use to make this happen? i have a bit of cash but i'm not loaded. i'd like to keep everything mechanical cause i'm no good with the wires. any ideals would be great. thanks


----------



## Tom A (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: The Difinitive Cheap A$$ Build Up!!!!!!! (ibblkman)*

Looking at using 16V pistons in my 1.8 JH 8V race engine, but am hearing this results in a compression ratio anywhere from 14:1 to 16:1.
Has anyone actually CCd a 1.8l JH engine with 1.8L 16V pistons? I can come up with the rest of the numbers for the compression ratio.
Thanks,


----------



## bjmsdrum00 (Jul 24, 2003)

bump for a GREAT 8v thread :thumbup:


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Tom A said:


> Looking at using 16V pistons in my 1.8 JH 8V race engine, but am hearing this results in a compression ratio anywhere from 14:1 to 16:1.
> Has anyone actually CCd a 1.8l JH engine with 1.8L 16V pistons? I can come up with the rest of the numbers for the compression ratio.
> Thanks,


Ive got the same exact setup in my car right now, minus the head :laugh: Wut #'s did u come up with?


----------



## blackgolf2.slow (May 12, 2010)

for the "go fast" parts you suggested for the digi II owners, the 535i afm and such, what years of these cars are we looking for?


----------



## watercoolered (Jul 13, 2010)

*Top info.*

Great work !!! but ran out of drinks,a chip and the AFM mod with GTI exhaust woke up my 89 RV motor,can you recommend the BMW 535I AFM mod? as most info on the net is fairly mixed on getting it to run mainly due to the spring tention reset,thanks.


----------



## r80gsman (Dec 12, 2010)

*cam info*

i have a 91 1.8gl and the block says it is a RV****, does this motor have the higher lift cam, same as the pf engines. i would think that a euro or gti spec have the cam not a GL

shed some light on this.

also my owners manual state that the gl has 100hp, gti8v 105, and gtl16v 134.. the other specs on the gl and gti8v are the same, what give the gti8v the extra 5hps other THAN THE CAM AND HEADER?


----------



## Seax_Smith (Jun 1, 2007)

r80gsman said:


> i have a 91 1.8gl and the block says it is a RV****, does this motor have the higher lift cam, same as the pf engines. i would think that a euro or gti spec have the cam not a GL
> 
> shed some light on this.
> 
> also my owners manual state that the gl has 100hp, gti8v 105, and gtl16v 134.. the other specs on the gl and gti8v are the same, what give the gti8v the extra 5hps other THAN THE CAM AND HEADER?


The 5 HP with the PF head come from the cam, exhasut mani&dual down pipe and the larger cat and exhaust.

If you don't have these on your car, get them. 

Watch the cat inlets. the flanges are all the same size, but the inlets are different. Run The PF exhaust mani& dual down pipe and the 16 valve cat and exhaust.

PS: the TT Mark IV High flow cat is a bolt in replacement. Is a little pingy when cold but when it warms up it quiets down.

Leave you air box alone until you do the head work. At most, just pop out the horn and enjoy the noise if that is your thing.

Get the connection form the air box to the TB as large and striat with smooth turns s possible is a good idea. Bunch of ways to do this, basically silicon elbows and lagre diameter pipe. Stay away from the 3" PVC. the wall thickness sort of defeats the purpose. THere is a hinda short ram that can be cut to fiot, but I forget which modle and year, but they are like $20 Ebay. You want the largest interior diameter you can fit in, and with the smothest turns possible with the minimum amount of joints.

If you Dont have the little plate that connects the air box to the bucket behind the head light, get one, or fab something up. A gallon milk jug and duct tape trial is ugly, but will convince you it is a need thing to figure out.


----------



## ROCCOJUGLE (Sep 28, 2010)

Awesome sauce


----------



## stark9dubber (Mar 27, 2007)

most legit info ever! question: ive got an 010 3spd that i rebuilt at school just before i graduated and its a pos and does not want to work at all so im gonna can that idea and swap in an 020. what would be the best option for me as far as different codes go? id like to keep the 90mm axles i currently have.... ive got an 87 golf with a JH 8v that i also rebuild at school and really im looking to have a solid daily so i can start the real business.


----------



## adam the caveman (Sep 9, 2010)

this was the thread i was looking for:thumbup:
im an 8v enthusiast cus i dont wanna fund a full motor swap and cus my engine has gotten me to 360k.....she deserves some respect. thx for this :thumbup:


----------



## adam the caveman (Sep 9, 2010)

.....also, i've heard that a certain year/model volvo has a larger CIS box/dizzy that can be swapped in. any info on this? anyone? opcorn:


----------



## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

adam the caveman said:


> .....also, i've heard that a certain year/model volvo has a larger CIS box/dizzy that can be swapped in. any info on this? anyone? opcorn:


it has 6 ports instead of 4, but only 4 ports are machined.. no fuel flow increase..

or are you talking about something else?


----------



## kaputsport (Jun 28, 2002)

E34 chassis. Not sure of the years, but google it and you will find the wiki.

As for the discussion on what is true and what isn't, let me say this first.

Teh tornado fuel saver bit was told to me, by an engine builder and tuner, who tested it on a mustang 5.0 liter, on a dyno. I saw the graph. It made power. I don't own one, and never will, but I was passing along what he told me.

The thermostat thing is kinda funny. Some say it hurts, others say it doesn't. I read a book regarding tuning VWs a long time ago when I was into them. In this book, I drooled over all the information that was listed, and one of the main things that was listed was the cooling system upgrades. It is funny to hear people talk about upgrading the radiator to a larger core, and faster fans, larger bottle, and even the proper mixture, yet the thermostat is the going to be the problem. Changing the thermostat in a VW from the 190 to the 180 changes when it opens by 10 degrees. By adding cam and ignition timing advance to these motors, some have run hotter than usual, even with the proper one in. It is not an end all be all solution. I ran an entire PA winter without a thermostat and still had mad heat, as my car was on the verge of going nuclear after some mods.

Sure, research for yourself, and make your own decisions. After reading that book, and researching on here, I found so much info, I had to place it all together. I figured the collective group could learn a thing or two.

The injector discussion, about G60 injectors vs regular in a digi car is silly. Adding them to a stock fuel system will not alter the fuel that much to make the car run pig rich. If your intake is so open,larger throttle body and ported head, a little added fuel won't hurt. FWIW, I had an Ai/Fuel gague at the time, and I was hitting around 13:1 to 12:1 all day everyday at WOT to redline with those mods, on a 16v Digi II swap. Could the 8v handle it? Maybe, but you would have to test it in the real world.

there are always going to be things people will disagree with, and to them I say, cool. Keep on dubbing. I for one wish there was this much information available when I was younger. I hope it helps people when they go to modify their cars, or fix them. Sometimes, you can upgrade while fixing it.

In my experience, nothing on the list of mods here has ever caused a car I was driving to blow up, break or become damaged. Even the AFM trick. This is widely known and used on VW and BMW. The only danger part is making sure you do not go too far. Mark it, and make it happen.

To all those I have helped over the years, you are welcome. I have moved on the BMW, and now own a 2002 M3 with an SMG transmission. I love my car, and have enjoyed the BMW world for a while. I might be moving back to VW, but this time, I am looking at a 2004 R32. Oddly enough, I actually bought my old Scirocco back, after 5 years. I got in it, and hated it. I sold it to a guy who converted it to a 1.9 TDI, and did a massive body job on it.

I had fun making this thread, and learning all about these cars. Take care, and never give up on what you love. Hopefully, this will get bumped again, and every new tuner to the 8v world will get his/her chance to enjoy the tips and tricks.

I will attempt to stop in from time to time, but I will most likely not be back to answer any questions.


----------



## omysv650s (Oct 23, 2010)

*Is it .03" or .003"*

"Another thing you can do with a low compression ratio 8v is deck the head. By shaving off .03" of the head, you can raise the compression ratio alot, while still being able to use pump gas. "


----------



## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

Seax_Smith said:


> Leave you air box alone until you do the head work. At most, just pop out the horn and enjoy the noise if that is your thing.
> 
> 
> 
> If you Dont have the little plate that connects the air box to the bucket behind the head light, get one, or fab something up. A gallon milk jug and duct tape trial is ugly, but will convince you it is a need thing to figure out.



You can also do what I have done, get a Corrado G60 lower portion of the airbox, the horn is quite a bit bigger. This way you can still hook it up behind the headlight, and it all looks stock! This will give you some added CFM capability, while still retaining the heatsheilding, and it does add a little sound. :thumbup:


----------



## vdubbinmk21980 (Oct 6, 2015)

*Forced INductiopn*

What was the question you were curious about exactly? I can tell you if you want a set up like that just get the 1.6 TDi set up from a turbo diesel mk2. Get the oil lines, the oil pan, manifold and turbo with downpipe and the oil filter adapter OEM stock OEM filter adapter off 1.6TDI and you have all the parts minus the head gasket. Now you have two options on the head gasket. double stack metal gasket G60 or adapter plate to change the compression just a little about a 1 point which will put you safe. Once it is all on SEE YEAH 5-7 lbs max with intercooler front mount. Now if you want the easier way buy yourself a good mk3 8v cross flow head and move all the components for the intake up front and turbo on the back. UP to you and the amount of money you have laying around. Either way I would port match the intake and exhaust valves and put a cam in. OHWAIT almost forgot to run it stock on the Digi mk2 you will have to run the exhaust manifold turn around backwards to have the room you need.


----------

