# The Last APR vs GIAC ECU Reflash Thread:



## Fisherson (Dec 22, 2008)

My situation:
I got my tax return check and it's enough to chip the GTI, for which I'm very excited. I have an appointment with this local shop: GRD (Genesis Racing Development) Performance. They sell APR reflashes for my car.

I have a few "car" friends in town and they, all of them unanimously, hate GRD and while they might be right, they are the only folks who sell APR in the Chicagoland area to my knowledge.

There's this place called Dubwerks up another route that sells GIAC. Everyone loves Dubwerks, I do too. I've been to both places. The guys at Dubwerks are super nice and really knowledgeable.

So, here is my dilemma. My appointment for this reflash is for tomorrow.
APR Stage 1 from GRD.
I'm calling Dubwerks in the morning to see if I can go with them because everyone I know who likes cars came out of the wood works to inform me that APR is horrible garbage and I'd be stupid not to go with GIAC because it's more aggressive, more reliable and doesn't stutter, falter or sputter. Or drop out between shifts.
My understanding from the Car Lounge and a couple of other sources leads me to believe otherwise.


Cliffnotes:
Appointment for APR reflash from mean-sheisty shop is tomorrow. 11AM
Cool shop sells GIAC, calling them in the morning to see if they can fit me in.
Heard APR sucks and GIAC is just the god's honest truth.
Heard GIAC sucks and APR is just the god's honest truth.
What is true?
What should I do?


----------



## grubble (Oct 28, 2007)

opcorn:

Another one of these threads. Waiting for the usual suspects to step out from behind their engine hoods and chime in. 

I have APR and am pretty satisfied with it. I have been in a friend's car w/GIAC and it was very similar (and it was running the DSG flash from GIAC too). If you want a "safe" tune, APR is pretty much the safe bet. "Aggresive" tune would be GIAC. No Unitronic dealers in your area (to add more fighters in the ring)? :laugh:


----------



## Gtiupb2002 (Jun 4, 2007)

I believe I got my flash done at GRD, and I cannot see why everyone hates them, they did mine no problem and they were friendly. I say stick with the APR flash, APR is smooth, but when you get on it its a whole new beast. I run APR 100oct on my car throughout the summer and I have had no issues with them. I have never had GIAC so I will not say they are worse or better I love my APR stg 2+ and wouldnt change for anything (except BT upgrade, probably EJ400 when that comes out:laugh but if you dont like the company that does the APR tune then dont go with them. Either way your car will be a whole new animal. GL:thumbup:



grubble said:


> opcorn:
> 
> No Unitronic dealers in your area (to add more fighters in the ring)? :laugh:


Looks like there is one Dealer up in the Chicago area. I would say go with them if you ever decide to go BT.


----------



## Fisherson (Dec 22, 2008)

Thanks for the replies, folks.


And yeah, I do apologize for creating another thread like this.
It just seems like a tough decision.


----------



## teo_parvu (Jan 27, 2009)

"To add more fighers in the ring" you should also consider Revo. My car is remaped at Revo and i'm absolutely loving it.


----------



## dfischer1 (May 20, 2004)

So the guys at this shop might be jerks, but doing an APR flash is really easy and simple, and I would think they would have limited opportunity/reason to be jerky about it.

Now if they're putting coilovers or a STG 3 Kit on, that's another story.

My vote is for APR - the best R&D by far and very smooth.

DF


----------



## oldcorradopower (Dec 17, 2002)

I'd say go with GIAC and the garage guys you trust. It's a win-win situation.

Giac tune for volkswagen were on the market long time ago even for mk1.

If you plan big turbo, APR and REVO are a better choice.

I'm happy with GIAC and on my last dyno the owner of the shop that sells Unitronic says he never saw a car making that much power on a K03 alone.. 240 Whp on stage 1.

AND ITS RELIABLE, I'm at 128000km, chipped since 5k and the turbo has no shaft play !

No coilpack burned, no fuel cut, no problem except my PCV went bad( like everybody on stock engine..)

I went to the dealer and they fix it on recall. THen I added the Eurojet PCV fix to be sure and improve mileage.


----------



## Fisherson (Dec 22, 2008)

Final word:

Going to Dubwerks at one.
For the GIAC chip.
And to better my relationship with them for the coming months/years.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

TheIllusionistD said:


> everyone I know who likes cars came out of the wood works to inform me that APR is horrible garbage and I'd be stupid not to go with GIAC because it's more aggressive, more reliable and doesn't stutter, falter or sputter. Or drop out between shifts.
> My understanding from the Car Lounge and a couple of other sources leads me to believe otherwise.


Sounds like your friends are following the "Pepsi rules, Coke sucks" montra. 

If APR was Horrible Garbage, Less aggressive, Less Reliable (more aggressive and more reliable :screwy, stuttered, faltered, sputtered and dropped out between shifts:

Volkswagen would not have chosen to run APR software on special edition factory APR tuned GTI's right on the show room floor.

APR would not have the predominate market share.

You would not see hundreds upon hundreds of cars lining up to get APR software at car shows like waterfest with only a handfull at all the other tuners booths.

APR would not win race after race in the Grand-Am Koni Sports Car Challenge.

APR would not be located in a state of the art 36,000 sq.ft. performance center.

APR would not be the title sponsor of the 2.0T FSI forum.

APR would not have delivered the first major performance products to the 2.0T FSI market (ECU upgrade, High Pressure Fuel Pumps, APR K04 Turbochargers, ED30 K04 Turbocharger systems, Stage 3 Turbochargers, Stage 4 Turbocharger systems, intakes, intercoolers, RSC exhaust systems and so on). 

APR would not hold the record for the Highest HP 2.0T FSI. 

APR would not hold the record for the Fastest 2.0T FSI. 

APR would not hold the record for the Quickest 2.0T FSI. 

APR would not hold the record for the fastest and quickest DSG and 6MT 2.0T FSI. 

APR would not hold the record for the Highest HP DSG with the largest power band 2.0T FSI. 

APR would not be chosen over and over by Volkswagen of America for its SEMA Show cars. 

Volkswagen Motorsport in Germany would not be running APR fueling components. 

SEAT sport would not have an entire series running APR fueling components. 

APR would not be ranked higher than any other VW/Audi tuner in the US on internet traffic.

We simply would not be this good if what you said was true.


----------



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Sounds like your friends are following the "Pepsi rules, Coke sucks" montra.
> 
> If APR was Horrible Garbage, Less aggressive, Less Reliable (more aggressive and more reliable :screwy, stuttered, faltered, sputtered and dropped out between shifts:
> 
> ...


check mate.


----------



## turboborra (Jan 23, 2004)

Save your self the trip to Dubwerks, they aren’t that nice once you get to know them and you give them more business. 

When I got my FSI, I went to GRD and had no issues getting chipped. APR :thumbup:


----------



## kayaker10 (Jan 10, 2006)

I read the OP post to not demean APR, only that his car buddies did not like the work done at the GRD shop. There is very little performance or safety issues between APR and GIAC. The more objective remarks about chip choice have almost always been ... go with the shop you trust for service. Having a trusted shop that will work with you on any issues that may come up in the future is a smarter move. Going to a shop for service that is a dealer for another chip company will only result in finger pointing. And GIAC does have tunes for a K04 for a few kits out there.


I suggest to the mods that any posting that has "(some tuning company) VS (some other tuning company)" in the title be deleted immediately. It never ends well and only serves fanbois, drama queens, and trolls.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Referencing Rbradleymedmd's GIAC logs:


















He switched to APR and was no longer running ATDC timing. 

Dave


----------



## BaneGTI (Feb 25, 2004)

i have been reading alot on these forums over the last 5 years and have seen this debate waged atleast 30 times....... but i would rather run no tune at all then ever ever ever buy a single product from apr, i have seen the "employees wage of the dumbest post wars over the dumbest topics and throw mud usually bigger and farther than anyone else, it would make me sick to my stomach every morning when i started my car to know i supported a company that employed professionals that act the way theirs do:beer:


----------



## WatchMyDub (Oct 26, 2008)

Rich Nd Tony from dubwerks are good people. they are really cool and helpful. i have had a ton of work done with them. they are always busy which is saying something. really it always comes down to who you trust and who is closest to you incase you need to take it back if something starts to malfunction. people will always advertise what they're running its a given fact. i on the other hand have best of both worlds. GIAC tune, APR HPFP. great combo if you ask me.
APR + GIAC 2 top notch companies.


----------



## vwsport173 (Jan 18, 2003)

BaneGTI said:


> i have been reading alot on these forums over the last 5 years and have seen this debate waged atleast 30 times....... but i would rather run no tune at all then ever ever ever buy a single product from apr, i have seen the "employees wage of the dumbest post wars over the dumbest topics and throw mud usually bigger and farther than anyone else, it would make me sick to my stomach every morning when i started my car to know i supported a company that employed professionals that act the way theirs do:beer:


Yeah based solely on Arin's post in this thread, and other APR employees' posts throughout the forums, I would go with GIAC or anything other than APR just because everyone else is not out there trying to make it seem like their software is the be all end all made by god himself software for our cars.

At stage one almost all brands will have very similar gains, with similar reliability. I would go with the shop you feel more comfortable with and plan to use in the future for further work on your car. Repeat business is always a good way to get better deals on labor, parts etc at a shop.


----------



## Fisherson (Dec 22, 2008)

I woke up this morning to post that I went APR through Tony. Talked to Rich. They're still really cool folk. And oh god so much torque. I love it. Hahahah.


----------

