# I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first.



## Dog_Eater (May 20, 2003)

I have a 2002 1.8t and just got all these codes, what should I look for on my car first. Or what might have caused this problem.
VAG-COM Version: Release 311.2-U
Control Module Part Number: 06A 906 032 HS 
Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT G01 0006
Software Coding: 07500
Work Shop Code: WSC 00001
Additional Info: 9BWDE61J124010597 VWZ7Z0A3890177
11 Faults Found:
17633 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 1 (N30): Short to Ground
P1225 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17635 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 3 (N32): Short to Ground
P1227 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17636 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 4 (N33): Short to Ground
P1228 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17634 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 2 (N31): Short to Ground
P1226 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17833 - EVAP Purge Valve (N80): Short to Ground
P1425 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17955 - Boost Pressure Regulation Valve (N75): Short to Ground
P1547 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating Circuit: B1 S2: Short to Ground
P1117 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17843 - Secondary Air Pump Relay (J299): Short to Ground
P1435 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17938 - Camshshaft Timing Adjustment: Short to Ground
P1530 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17829 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112): Short to Ground
P1421 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17697 - Boost Pressure Control Valve (N249): Short to Ground
P1289 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Dog_Eater)*

Sounds like everything that is powered off of the fuel pump relay.


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## jetta rocks (Mar 19, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Dog_Eater)*

fuel pump relay and relay board.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jasonsp6 (Sep 8, 2003)

Fuel Pump Relay!!
I recently had the same problem, and my car would not start up...
These are the exact codes scanned from my 02' GTI:

_Quote »_
17633 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 1 (N30): Short to
Ground
P1225 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17635 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 3 (N32): Short to
Ground
P1227 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17636 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 4 (N33): Short to
Ground
P1228 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17634 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 2 (N31): Short to
Ground
P1226 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17833 - EVAP Purge Valve (N80): Short to Ground
P1425 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17955 - Boost Pressure Regulation Valve (N75): Short
to Ground
P1547 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating Circuit: B1 S2:
Short to Ground
P1117 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17843 - Secondary Air Pump Relay (J299): Short to
Ground
P1435 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17938 - Camshshaft Timing Adjustment: Short to Ground
P1530 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17829 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112):
Short to Ground
P1421 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17697 - Boost Pressure Control Valve (N249): Short to
Ground
P1289 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 35-00 - 




_Modified by jasonsp6 at 9:33 AM 5-17-2004_


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## jetta rocks (Mar 19, 2004)

*Re: (jasonsp6)*

Yes fuel pump relay. It's also the power supply for the ecm.


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## Junk T.I. (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: (jetta rocks)*

ding ding ding......
we have a winner........
you my friend need a new fuel pump relay
part number of the most recent one ends in 383 C


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## Dog_Eater (May 20, 2003)

*Re: (Junk T.I.)*

so the fuel pump relay is located behind the fuse pannel under the dash?


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## Dog_Eater (May 20, 2003)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Dog_Eater)*

Also could this be the reason my car is running slightly rich?


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Dog_Eater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dog_Eater* »_so the fuel pump relay is located behind the fuse pannel under the dash?

Yes. Should be numbered 409, I think.


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## Junk T.I. (Sep 18, 2003)

yup. number 409 relay


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## Dog_Eater (May 20, 2003)

*Re: (Junk T.I.)*

Just Installed it today
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTI_Matador (Oct 1, 1999)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Dog_Eater)*

I just got all these same codes also, does someone have the full part number for the relay? 
Also, would this contribute in anyway misfires and stutters on cold starts in the morning? I seem to be getting those alot lately and each day they are more violent.


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## GTI_Matador (Oct 1, 1999)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (GTI_Matador)*

nevermind I found the part number, here it is for others in the future
1J0906383C


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## BayAreaTech (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (GTI_Matador)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI_Matador* »_I just got all these same codes also, does someone have the full part number for the relay? 
Also, would this contribute in anyway misfires and stutters on cold starts in the morning? I seem to be getting those alot lately and each day they are more violent.

The reason these codes are thrown is because of a voltage surge during start-up. The problem fuel pump relay works just fine, except for the stored codes. I have heard if you start the car with the drivers door open with the older (Pre 1J0906383C) you will throw these codes.


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*


_Quote »_ The problem fuel pump relay works just fine 

Except when your ocassionally car sputters and almost stalls because the fuel pump relay doesn't work "fine" and throws all these codes.
-Uwe-


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## BayAreaTech (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Uwe)*

ok. you must not have under stood what I was saying. If your fuel pump relay fails, you will get those faults and your car will not start at *all!*. Those faults you see are a software glitch in the fuel pump relay. The software glitch causes a miss communication with the ECU on when it is really on or not (if your car is running the relay is on). As you can see by the faults the "fuel pump" relay is a lot more than just a relay for the fuel pump. It supplies power to the fuel injectors, coil(s), fuel pump, and other various valves. If it stopped supplying power the car would stop running.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*

My '00 GTI had the Fuel Pump Relay intermittently fail. It caused the car to stall, with the resulting fault codes. Afterwards, I could restart it and it would run fine. Replacing the relay completely cured that problem.


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## GTI_Matador (Oct 1, 1999)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. ([email protected])*

So it is safe to say that the relay could cause the stuttering on cold idle starts. Do you think it could also cause cylinder misfires? since basically the fuel delivery is choppy or incorrect. This would also explain my lean condition which is evident in my whiteish tips on the spark plugs. In any case I ordered a new relay and a new fuel filter along with new plugs, hopefully all those things will solve my issues.


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## BayAreaTech (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (GTI_Matador)*

it is "not safe to say" that the relay could cause stuttering.. if the relay was bad your car would not run. it would not get fuel, spark, the injectors woud not fire. without any of thoes the car will not run at all.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BayAreaTech* »_if the relay was bad your car would not run.

Please read my above comments.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BayAreaTech* »_if the relay was bad your car would not run.

Not sure why you keep insisting on "voltage surges" and "software glitch in the fuel pump relay" when everybody else seems to be saying that changing the relay fixed the problem.
I'll accept that "if the relay is good your car should run" but black does not imply white...
Try completing these sentences
- If your relay was intermittent your car would _____________________
- If your relay was marginal your car would _____________________
- If your relay was flakey your car would _____________________
- If your relay was possessed by aliens your car would _____________________










_Modified by dennisgli at 5:59 PM 8-31-2004_


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## BayAreaTech (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (dennisgli)*


_Quote »_ Not sure why you keep insisting on "voltage surges" and "software glitch in the fuel pump relay" when everybody else seems to be saying that changing the relay fixed the problem

everyone else? all I have seen is people saying the new relay will fix the fault codes from being stored. Actually [email protected] even said with the faulty relay the car would stall and he would have to re-start.
I am only trying to help and not have you spend money were you don't have to with the shot-gun approach. I have seen a lot of different things cause a 1.8T to stutter when cold. I have seen anything from a MAF, secondary air pump, ECU, cracked wires, faulty plugs, coolant migration, etc to cause stuttering. 
Try completing these sentences
- If your relay was intermittent your car would run intermittently
- If your relay was marginal your car would marginal? the relay is a on/off switch. If it did not let enough current through the car would not run(most likely it would get hot and fail for melt the plastic) 
- If your relay was flaky your car would your car would run intermittently. most likely the car would shut off for no reason while driving
- If your relay was possessed by aliens your car woulduhh. I can say I have not seen this one yet



_Modified by BayAreaTech at 7:01 PM 8-31-2004_


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*

If you have that set of codes and stalling supttering, then chances are a $20-some dollar fuel pump relay will cure both. My guess is these relays develop a crack in one of the internal solder joints and that's what makes them flaky. And yes, the car will indeed die/stall/sputter when this problem with the relay occurs.
-Uwe-


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## BayAreaTech (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Uwe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Uwe* »_If you have that set of codes and stalling sputtering, then chances are a $20-some dollar fuel pump relay will cure both. My guess is these relays develop a crack in one of the internal solder joints and that's what makes them flaky. And yes, the car will indeed die/stall/sputter when this problem with the relay occurs.
-Uwe-

I have seen cracked solder joint in some relays ( I can only recall 1 fuel pump relay). With a cracked (or cold) solder joint usually when the car (or relay) warm up, it dies. 
I guess i cannot get you to understand that the "fuel pump" relay does a LOT more than fuel pump. If it had a intermittent open in it, (at idle)the car would die/stall. If you were driving and it happened it would like you got rear ended (sudden loss of power). I have seen a few fuel pump relays fail, not one person complained of stuttering. It was always car will not run, car runs and dies, etc. 
I'm just trying to help. I work on these car every day (ok, only 5 days a week but about 10 hour days). There is never a week that goes by that something new pops up. I try to keep an open mind about problem cause/solutions. I just hate to see customers replace component without testing them or because they were told to on the Internet. you could very simply test the relay to see if its going bad before you replace it and you would see no difference.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BayAreaTech* »_you could very simply test the relay to see if its going bad before you replace it and you would see no difference. 

How do you test a relay for a cracked or cold solder joint?


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## BayAreaTech (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (dennisgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennisgli* »_
How do you test a relay for a cracked or cold solder joint?

One way is to install a jumper in place of the relay. You just have to remember not to leave the jumper installed. The second method (the one I use mots of the time) is to disassemble the relay. I have a 20x pen style microscope and I visually inspect for cracked solder joints. I then take the contact arm out and inspect it. Lastly I check for Resistance and voltage drop(I can explain my method of voltage drop if you like) across the contacts. The second method is my preferred method because I can actually prove were the failure is (something I have to do if it is a warranty claim).


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## GTI_Matador (Oct 1, 1999)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BayAreaTech* »_
One way is to install a jumper in place of the relay. You just have to remember not to leave the jumper installed. The second method (the one I use mots of the time) is to disassemble the relay. I have a 20x pen style microscope and I visually inspect for cracked solder joints. I then take the contact arm out and inspect it. Lastly I check for Resistance and voltage drop(I can explain my method of voltage drop if you like) across the contacts. The second method is my preferred method because I can actually prove were the failure is (something I have to do if it is a warranty claim). 


They actually have you sitting there testing the voltage for a $20 relay on warranty claims? no wonder labor charges are overpriced








I replaced this thing and I'm still getting the cold start shutters, granted no more codes but still misfires when on cold starts


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## TDItwist (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (GTI_Matador)*

_Modified by TDItwist at 8:00 PM 9-3-2004_


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## BayAreaTech (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (GTI_Matador)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI_Matador* »_
They actually have you sitting there testing the voltage for a $20 relay on warranty claims? no wonder labor charges are overpriced










How does this relate to labor charges? VOA pays the dealer not the cutomer(on warente items). 
I have to prove and provide documentation of a failed part..(print out of faults, printout of Resistances/voltages). The whole possess of pulling the faults, using the jumper, inspecting the relay, measuring voltage drop/Resistance takes me about 20 time units (less than 15 mins). That is including clearing the faults. then it takes about 20-50 time units (about 12-30) to set the readiness codes. 

_Quote, originally posted by *GTI_Matador* »_
I replaced this thing and I'm still getting the cold start shutters, granted no more codes but still misfires when on cold starts

I thought I had made myself clear that It would not fix it, yet you still are surprised. 


_Modified by BayAreaTech at 10:00 PM 9-3-2004_


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## GTI_Matador (Oct 1, 1999)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BayAreaTech* »_I thought I had made myself clear that It would not fix it, yet you still are surprised. 


In all honesty, I'm not reading your posts very carefully they are more rants then solutions to my problem, so at most they get a light skim. 
For everyone else that might have the cold start problem. I put the key to ACC this morning and let the car realign its Tb and when it was done I turned it over and it idled perfectley. I have been reading other posts in ref. to my cold start probelm and aparentley I need a softwarre upgrade that will help.


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (GTI_Matador)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI_Matador* »_
In all honesty, I'm not reading your posts very carefully they are more rants then solutions to my problem, so at most they get a light skim. 
For everyone else that might have the cold start problem. I put the key to ACC this morning and let the car realign its Tb and when it was done I turned it over and it idled perfectley. I have been reading other posts in ref. to my cold start probelm and aparentley I need a softwarre upgrade that will help. 

umm I would like to make my addition to the post!
#1 Rough cold starts, I got my software upgraded cause i had lots of misfires at startup. It has helped but they have come back a few times...
#2 Fault to ground codes, I had all those codes in that exact order then i had to take out my battery and they went away but haven't come back yet....only the misfire ones


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## 20VTURBOSpoolMeUp! (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (BayAreaTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BayAreaTech* »_ok. you must not have under stood what I was saying. If your fuel pump relay fails, you will get those faults and your car will not start at *all!*. Those faults you see are a software glitch in the fuel pump relay. The software glitch causes a miss communication with the ECU on when it is really on or not (if your car is running the relay is on). As you can see by the faults the "fuel pump" relay is a lot more than just a relay for the fuel pump.

I dunno, but I would say if there is a software glitch in the fuel pump relay that is throwing codes, then I would have to say that the fuel pump relay is not working (how it should) hence you have a bad fuel pump relay without having your car stall right?


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## BayAreaTech (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20VTURBOSpoolMeUp!* »_
I dunno, but I would say if there is a software glitch in the fuel pump relay that is throwing codes, then I would have to say that the fuel pump relay is not working (how it should) hence you have a bad fuel pump relay without having your car stall right?

You could look at it that way. But if you never saw the codes you would not notice any problems.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Dog_Eater)*

I thought I clicked the wrong favorites line this AM. This thread is reading like a Porsche 911 or 944 "why does my car not start or run or why does it have a bunch of intermittent malfunctions?". The Porsche lore is to carry a new fresh spare DME relay (fuel pump relay) in the glove box or your car. I would guess that in both Porsche and VW's application this relay is marginally being asked to carry too much current and suffers accordingly. I hope I do not have to start carrying spare relays in my VWs--the extra VR6 coilpack is enough!


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## Cmo (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Peter Badore)*

Here were the codes I got:
13 Faults Found:
17931 - Crash Signal from Airbag Controller: Implausible Signal
P1523 - 35-00 - -
17633 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 1 (N30): Short to Ground
P1225 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17637 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 5 (N83): Short to Ground
P1229 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17635 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 3 (N32): Short to Ground
P1227 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17638 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 6 (N84): Short to Ground
P1230 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17833 - EVAP Purge Valve (N80): Short to Ground
P1425 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17880 - EVAP Leak Detection Pump: Short Circuit to Ground
P1472 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17843 - Secondary Air Pump Relay (J299): Short to Ground
P1435 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17829 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112): Short to Ground
P1421 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17636 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 4 (N33): Short to Ground
P1228 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17923 - Intake Manifold Valve (N156): Short to Ground
P1515 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17634 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 2 (N31): Short to Ground
P1226 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17525 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating Circuit: B1 S2: Short to Ground
P1117 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

Guess what. Replaced fuel pump relay, car starts up fine now (used to take 2-3 cranks). $20 part from Adirondack is much better than going to the dealer!


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## Cmo (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Cmo)*

Check that. I replaced the relay (brand new #409) and the problem went away that night--after reconnecting battery and starting car.
However, the next morning the problem was back and with the same exact fault codes!!
After reading other posts I tried starting the car after turning the key to acc. position and waiting a few (2-3) seconds. I hear the fuel pump pressurize and now the car starts up every time (when I do my trick). If I don't do the trick the faults will come back. 
Any ideas? Sounds like I may have one of those other problems.


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## tom8thebomb (Nov 28, 2002)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (Cmo)*

is ur fuel pump relay on or is the fuel pump relay on when u open the drivers side door? start there because thats how they normally prime


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## omllenado (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: I just got 11 short to ground codes what should I look for first. (tom8thebomb)*

I just got those codes, 7-8 cells, asr light is on, car starts fine. I'll post the codes latter.
2001 1.8T jetta


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