# I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend?



## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

What is the best setup I can get for that money and where?
I would do it for everyday driving, I never go on the track or plan to, but I do love that tight stopping power the bigger ones give you. The ocassional wanting to stop shorter distances since I am goign to fast also.








What do you guys recommend?


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## jermarlang (Mar 26, 2000)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (Pifiu)*

I am happy with the TT upgrade. About $650.00 with Powerslot rotors & pads. Parts for VWs.com


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (jermarlang)*

thats just fronts right?


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## jermarlang (Mar 26, 2000)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (Pifiu)*

That was TT fronts W stock Mintex pads for the rear.


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## torr_aox (Jun 5, 2004)

Check out ECS tuning. If you're just looking for fronts they offer 13.1 inchers for under 600, and you can do front and rear for around a grand


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (Pifiu)*

If you want shorter stopping distances, get better tires. Period. 
If you want less brake fade and more force for your pedal effort, the best way to get that is better pads. Consider Hawk HPS or Porterfield R4-S for your car. Those on stock (flat surface) rotors will be much better than the stock pads. Actually, putting better pads on the front and staying with stock or stock equivalent (Mintex Red Box) pads on the rear will correct some of the imbalance in your braking system. The A4 cars are badly overbiased to the rear. 
If you want bigger brakes because they look cool. Go for it. But you can get great stopping with the stock brakes by upgrading pads and tires. And without upgrading the tires, all you are doing with the brakes is changing how hard you have to push the pedal to lock the wheels (or engage the ABS). You generally won't stop any shorter unless you get grippier tires. 


_Modified by Racer_X at 8:10 AM 9-7-2004_


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (Racer_X)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Racer_X* »_If you want shorter stopping distances, get better tires. Period. 
If you want less brake fade and more force for your pedal effort, the best way to get that is better pads. Consider Hawk HPS or Porterfield R4-S for your car. Those on stock (flat surface) rotors will be much better than the stock pads. Actually, putting better pads on the front and staying with stock or stock equivalent (Mintex Red Box) pads on the rear will correct some of the imbalance in your braking system. The A4 cars are badly overbiased to the rear. 
If you want bigger brakes because they look cool. Go for it. But you can get great stopping with the stock brakes by upgrading pads and tires. And without upgrading the tires, all you are doing with the brakes is changing how hard you have to push the pedal to lock the wheels (or engage the ABS). You generally won't stop any shorter unless you get grippier tires. 

_Modified by Racer_X at 8:10 AM 9-7-2004_

Everything he said. Do all that first. And your stopping distances may improve just by correcting the MkIV rear-bias issue since ABS will tend to kick in later! (Check the link in my sig for a great street/track setup)
If you still need more brakes, get the 12.3" TT front rotor upgrade. It helps manage the heat if you are taking the car on the track. All those other big brake kits aren't really necessary unless you're doing extreme speeds, have excessive weight additions, or are planning to build a show car.



_Modified by phatvw at 11:15 AM 9-7-2004_


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (phatvw)*

hey guys ok, I am back and ready to make a decision this week. I visited the ECS tuning site and I am confused with a couple of the products that they sell. I am not exactly sure which kit is the best bang for the buck.
Lets get some things cleared up. I have heard that ECS sells the x-drilled and slotted rotors, but that they happen to crack sometimes since the holes are drilled instead of casted. Is this true?
Now I am confused in between 3 of their kits.
They have the OEM ECS ones which are 2 piece, then they have their OEM Big brake kit, same size as the OEM ECS but 1 piece, and then they have their ECS Stg 1, which is weird, since its a bigger rotor, but same caliper and carrier.
Which do you guys recommend? If not ECS then also what other compnay will sell me good rotors at a good price?
PLEASE CLARIFY THE SLOTTED and X-DRILLED question about the ECS ones!
Also what pads do you guys recommend? NO TRACK USE! Just good ocassional aggressive street driving with awesome stopping. Nothing too excessive!


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (Pifiu)*

If you are looking for max performance and durability without racing, just get plain OEM-size rotors with Ferodo DS2500 front/Hawk HPS rear or Ferodo DS2000 front/OEM rear pads. Neither are excessive for your application.
2-piece rotors are lighter and may improve handling - since you're not racing its probably not worth the extra money.
Larger rotors add heat capacity - since you're not racing, don't bother spending the extra money unless you want the pretty looks.
x-drilled/cast/slotted rotors are mainly for looks too. They will not give you any added performance on the street and only give added performance for certain limited applications on the racetrack. If you choose x-drilled, it probably doesn't matter whether they are drilled or cast since its hard to reach failure point off the racetrack.
In any case, try http://www.raceshopper.com and http://www.parts4vws.com since they often have better prices and selection than ECS.



_Modified by phatvw at 12:14 AM 9-19-2004_


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## gcarson (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (phatvw)*

I am with Phatvw, save your $600-800 and just get some good pads. The other setups are not necessary except for show since this is a street vehicle. You will not see a $800 dollar improvement if you spend it. I would reccommend using slotted rotors for improved wet braking. Stay away from the cross-drilled usually just used for looks anyway.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (gcarson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gcarson* »_ I would reccommend using slotted rotors for improved wet braking. Stay away from the cross-drilled usually just used for looks anyway.

Yes, slotted may give you slightly better inital brake grip in the rain, however, pad life can be reduced by 50% or more and there is an annoying hum with high speed braking. Cross-drilled rotors can also reduce pad life by 50% or more.
I have slotted rotors now, but next time I'm getting plain OEM.


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## VDubMutant (May 24, 2003)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (phatvw)*

Alas, I too have had this great debate whan I have 6-8 hun burning a hole in my pocket....hmmmmm. Well, anyways what PhatVW and Racer X are saying are competely true. Stock pads are not the greatest and larger rotors and calipers can rob Wheel Horse Power. I have recently upgraded my stock shoes to Porterfield R4S composition and plan to upgrade my pads soon too. I have noticed a HUGE imrovement in braking: when so many people are like swap2disk! Its BS. I ran XDrilled Brembo Rotors in front. What a waste of money. They get so hot and cool so fast I warped 'em in a winter...If ur driving agressively on the street, 1. remember that we all share the street and if you want to push it please go to a motorcross event or track your car one day, and 2. spend mney on something like a cam or chip or ehaust, it ll get ur money further. 
Check out Porterfield and Ferrodo's racing pads and chek some new rubber. I run Dunlop Sport A2s and have never been happier with my cornering grip or stopping power.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

Guys, I decided I will back out on the brakes for now and just get nice pads. Can you guys please post up which one's would I really need? I notice that hawk has like 2 types or maybe more. the HP and the HPS. How about PBR or PBR deluxes, or how about mintex?
NO TRACK AT ALL! Low dust and need to grab!


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

Here's the ones I know about.
Hawk HPS - Better bite and much better fade resistance than stock pads. I think a bit less dust than stock, but it's not the least dusty pad out there. My impression of dust is kind of hard to judge because I live on gravel and dirt roads so it's hard to separate brake dust from road dust.
Hawk HP+ - Better grip and fade resistance than HPS. More dust than HPS and somewhat dustier than stock pads. Can be noisey, too.
Porterfield R4-S - Maybe a bit more bite and fade resistance than Hawk HPS, but pretty close to those. Not bad in the dust department either. 
Mintex Red Box - About the same performance as stock in terms of bite and fade resistance, much less dust.
Ferodo DS-2500 - About the best grip and fade resistance you can get. Lots of dust, some noise. 
EBC Green - on lighter weight cars (A1's and 8V A2's), good grip, good fade resistance and less dust than stock. Comparable to HPS on the lighter cars. On heavier cars (A3's, A4's, Passats, etc.) they tend to be poor performers and have problems (imprinting material on rotors, glazing rotors are both problems that I've seen). I don't recommend them on anything over 2500 pounds in typical driving.
From your posts, I would recommend trying either Hawk HPS or Porterfield R4-S. 
One last thing. If your car has ABS, you can improve the balance of the braking system by installing grippier pads at the front and stock level performance at the rear. Hawk HPS (or Porterfield R4-S) at the front works well with Mintex Red Box at the rear. 


_Modified by Racer_X at 5:01 AM 9-21-2004_


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: I have around $600-800 for brakes, what do you guys recommend? (Pifiu)*

Front I would do stock 11.3 ATE powerslots and either Hawk HP+ or Porterfield R4S pads. Front stainless lines. In the rear I would stick with the solid 9.1 rotor and go HP+ or PBR Metalmasters. 
You will not be dissatisfied.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

I think I will be getting Hawk HPS and Mintex rears.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

So everybody gets a







for saving you 600 bucks, right?


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

yeah question though.
I was about to order the Hawks and there is something that caught my attention. It says that they dont come with "Wear sensors" wouldnt that be a problem since I might get a light on all the time saying I have no brakes?


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

Nah, just cut the wire on your OEM pads and solder it together and use some shrink tube to keep the water out. OR you can disable the sensor alert with VAG com. I did the jumper.


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

There's a couple of ways to deal with the lack of wear sensors. The "correct" way is to reset the light with VAG-COM. The feature can be disabled that way.
The "ghetto" solution is to cut the wires off your old pads and short the wires together and plug them into the connector. I recommend soldering the wires and covering them with some good, weather resistant tape or goop if you go that way.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

ok but the wear sensor, hmm interesting cuz I never got it in the old car, maybe it was disabled by default?


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## ECS Tuning-Tom (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

The one & only, ECS Stage I Big brake kit. Fits your budget also
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage...=1.8T


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (ECS Tuning-Tom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ECS Tuning-Tom* »_The one & only, ECS Stage I Big brake kit. Fits your budget also
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage...=1.8T









I am holding it off for now and just getting some pads. Might give you a call by tomorrow.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

Also while I am doing this, should I change the brake fluid? Which type do you recommend?


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## VDubMutant (May 24, 2003)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

from what I understand, there is really no point in changing your brake lined to SS. I did because I didnt realize that the stock lines are only rubber coated. If you are rally racing or drive on dirt roads, maybe you may want to consider the SS lines, I shouldve replaced mine with stock instead od spending the xtra loot. As for brake fluid, use DOT 4 or high-temp fluid, you wont notice a difference untill you really heat the brakes up. Good choice. go low budget first an at least you didnt toss your money out before you test the budget option...please let me know how you make out.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Pifiu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pifiu* »_Also while I am doing this, should I change the brake fluid? Which type do you recommend?

When was the last time the fluid was changed? If it been over a year, then yeah may as well do everything at once. Regular DOT 4 is fine if you're not going on the racetrack. Generally, brake fluid is good for about 2 years, and brake lines are good for 4, so you might want to replace those with OEM lines. SS lines don't have much advanatage over new OEM lines.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

Well I already have SS lines on the car so I am not concerned about that. I just bought the car and my friend did the 40k mile service, but I have to ask him if they changed the fluid. I think they would as a standard procedure?


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## r03 (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: (Pifiu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pifiu* »_Well I already have SS lines on the car so I am not concerned about that. I just bought the car and my friend did the 40k mile service, but I have to ask him if they changed the fluid. I think they would as a standard procedure?

hmm, i'm too lazy to look up the schedule, but i believe brake fluid's a 30,000 mile thing?
if you do need to replace the fluid, i've had good results with Valvoline dot 4. It's cheap and it works well for DD. I've never boiled my fluid on the street, but a high dry boiling point brake fluid is great insurance. I believe the dry BP of the valvo is ~450 degrees F.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to the brake forum guys on saving homey some money. glad to see people know what they're talking about in here


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (r03)*

nope brake fluid like anitfreeze is a time not milage sensative thing. eveyr 2 years at the least.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (Pifiu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pifiu* »_Well I already have SS lines on the car so I am not concerned about that. I just bought the car and my friend did the 40k mile service, but I have to ask him if they changed the fluid. I think they would as a standard procedure?

If Fabio put SS lines, the system was purged and flushed. Ask him when he put the lines.
I see you are still fumbling with the brakes...make a already decision f00!!!
Like I said, get a set of Ferodos DS2500 for the front, Hawk HPS for the read. Plain rotors all around, and you are set.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

Yeah I decided already! Im just getting pads, just was confused with the fluid and stuff. I am ordering them today. HELP ME INSTALL THEM JOSE! hehe


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

I got no problem helping you out.


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## r03 (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: (jamesb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamesb* »_
nope brake fluid like anitfreeze is a time not milage sensative thing. eveyr 2 years at the least.

yeah, but the service schedule assumes you're driving ~15,000 miles a year.


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (r03)*

hahaha, I wish I drove that little. I average 28k a year till I changed jobs, now I am down to about 18k a year.


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## r03 (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: (jamesb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamesb* »_
hahaha, I wish I drove that little. I average 28k a year till I changed jobs, now I am down to about 18k a year.

same here, i'm at around 20,000 a year.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (r03)*

Ok another problem. Resurfacing the rotor's I completely forgot about that. This is gonna be a big pain in the ass!







So more than likely I might just end up ordering new ones.


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

not really, take the rotors off and take them somwhere to be turned.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

ok but that takes time since I have to take it somewhere to do that and leave the car on jacks?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Pifiu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pifiu* »_ok but that takes time since I have to take it somewhere to do that and leave the car on jacks?

If you're going to get them turned, you may as well just have them install your new pads and everything too. The labour cost probably won't be that different.
However, you may not need to get them turned at all. If you are noticing only minor "warping" the new pads might scrape away deposits from your old pads and correct the "warping" for you. A higher friction coeffcient or semi-metallic pad will work best for this. Just make sure you bed in the pads as per the manufacturers directions. It is often better to just get new rotors rather than turning them.


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## r03 (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
If you're going to get them turned, you may as well just have them install your new pads and everything too. The labour cost probably won't be that different.
However, you may not need to get them turned at all. If you are noticing only minor "warping" the new pads might scrape away deposits from your old pads and correct the "warping" for you. A higher friction coeffcient or semi-metallic pad will work best for this. Just make sure you bed in the pads as per the manufacturers directions. It is often better to just get new rotors rather than turning them.

you can get rotors turned at kragen/autozone/ etc for $8 a rotor.


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## VDubMutant (May 24, 2003)

*Re: (r03)*

I actually have an extra set of rotors for exactly this reason. They are pretty inexpensive, so i figgured why not. Also remember if you end up choosing either drilled or slotted rotors, (which dont do much unless you are racing) they are one time use only. You cant turn them no matter who says what. trust me. i did it and what a mistake.








could this be a reason im having trouble? Brake fluid wise, i mean...








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1599042




_Modified by DbMutant at 12:06 AM 9-24-2004_


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## r03 (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: (DbMutant)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DbMutant* »_I actually have an extra set of rotors for exactly this reason. They are pretty inexpensive, so i figgured why not. Also remember if you end up choosing either drilled or slotted rotors, (which dont do much unless you are racing) they are one time use only. You cant turn them no matter who says what. trust me. i did it and what a mistake.








could this be a reason im having trouble? Brake fluid wise, i mean...








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1599042
_Modified by DbMutant at 12:06 AM 9-24-2004_

actually, the only thing x-drilled rotors do for you on a road course is crack/fail/reduce braking efficiency. xdrills are 100% bling only.
slots are sometimes used on race cars to improve initial bite, which may or may not be what you're looking for at the cost of heat capacity.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

ok also I need brake fluid now. Are lines supposed to be changed every 2 years also? they are SS lines.


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## ROCKnRLR (Oct 30, 2000)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

No, the S lines can last a bit more than that. How old are the SS lines u ahve now? that's how old u fluid is!


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## r03 (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

ss lines are a wear item, should be replaced around that often.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

around 2 years I belive. dammit man! this is gonna cost me a whole new set of brakes pretty much!


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (r03)*

Yes, flex lines are a wear item, even the braided stainless ones.
I recommend changing rubber lines every 3 to 4 years and changing braided stainless lines every 4 to 6 years.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Racer_X)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Racer_X* »_Yes, flex lines are a wear item, even the braided stainless ones.
I recommend changing rubber lines every 3 to 4 years and changing braided stainless lines every 4 to 6 years.


the current ss lines have around 2 years on them, should I change them? they cost a hefty 120!


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (Pifiu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pifiu* »_the current ss lines have around 2 years on them, should I change them? they cost a hefty 120!









Personally, I wouldn't replace them at only 2 years old for that price. The gain will be minimal, and the cost is a bit high for the small gain you will get.


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## Pifiu (Jan 28, 2002)

so keep them for another 2 years?


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (Pifiu)*

Yeah, at least another 2 years.


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