# E85 on Touareg?



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Did anyone try running E85 on V6/V8 engine? This is probably pointless for USA guys but seeing as E85 over here (Sweden) is really a LOT cheaper ($6 for a gallon of 93 octane and E85 is like 40% cheaper) we could benefit a lot from this.
I am thinking to put some E85 and see how it runs, i wonder if ECU is gonna adapt to like 30% of E85 and 70% benzin.
Any inputs welcome, thanks guys


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## VegasMatt (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: E85 on Touareg? (mescaline)*

I wouldn't recommend it. Vehicles over here that can run it come with different fuel system "features" (different fuel filters, I know for sure on my old Flex-Fuel (E85 or gas) GMC) to make them compatible with the E85. Also, different service schedues were talked about in the manual, although I don't remember the specifics. I do remember that if you ran E85 and wanted to switch back to gasoline, the manual said to do an oil change regardless of the mileage/age of the oil. 
Not to mention, your mileage generally suffers compared to regular gasoline. Your emissions are cleaner though...
Bottom line: I personally wouldn't chance it.
Matt


_Modified by VegasMatt at 7:38 AM 9-21-2007_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

i read a lot about fuel filters and stuff and it doesnt sound like a problem, there are tons of cars in Sweden running E85 without any conversion kits


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## VegasMatt (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_i read a lot about fuel filters and stuff and it doesnt sound like a problem, there are tons of cars in Sweden running E85 without any conversion kits

Maybe we're just a little gun-shy in the States, or they've fooled us into thinking we need a special fuel system to run it. Most flex-fuel vehicles here (all that I've seen) have a different engine code than those that run gasoline only. The Flex engine is usually an option alongside a gas-only engine of the same tyme (example: Chevy trucks are available with a 5.3-liter V8 in gasoline or gas/E85 flex. Same engine specs, diferent build (RPO) codes)
Either way, if you have issues and a warranty, you may have a hard time getting warranty repairs on anything engine/fuel/exhaust system related if they find you using E85.
Good luck
Matt


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

i just read some reports on Cayenne running 20% methanol without issues, not E85 but methanol.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (mescaline)*

From everything I've read and know, the TOUAREGs engines are not designed to run on E85.
I wouldn't do it.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_From everything I've read and know, the TOUAREGs engines are not designed to run on E85.
I wouldn't do it.

You don't NEED any special design for this to work, it's fuel like any other. Mixture of E85/air is different than bensin/air , thats what makes this a bit complicated...other than that its all same **** with lots of myths. If i wasn't traveling a lot to countries where E85 isn't widely available i would just get some tuning company to tune my ECU for E85 , thats all....MAYBE i would need bigger injectors but i doubt it.


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## nltomba (Jan 30, 2007)

The whole problem with E85 is that it is very aggressive stuff It will eat away a lot of thing like seals etc. That is why you have to have the vehicle set up for it
You know they cannot even use an existing oil pipe line for ethanol. It will eat it up in no time


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (nltomba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nltomba* »_The whole problem with E85 is that it is very aggressive stuff It will eat away a lot of thing like seals etc. That is why you have to have the vehicle set up for it
You know they cannot even use an existing oil pipe line for ethanol. It will eat it up in no time

No it won't, this is another myth. 
"Alcohol fuels can be more corrosive on some rubbers , plastic and some metal parts and this is why back in the 1970's when Alcohol fuels were first introduced in the United States that people would complain abut engine problems , corroded fuel lines etc. this is no longer an issue in most newer vehicles as most newer vehicles are already designed to resist the corrosive nature of Alcohol fuels when Some states started requiring 10- 20 % Ethanol in all gasoline fuels sold . After considerable research I came to the conclusion this simply wasn't a major concern as I entered into this project . But for added protection I chose to use a high quality synthetic oil ."
As for fuel filter:
"This is something that needs to be changed after running 500 miles or so on E85. The ethanol will actually clean any sludge and particles in your gas tank and fuel lines and can clog your fuel filter decreasing fuel economy and cause hard starts , hesitation on acceleration and bad idle. So I am now at 800 Miles running E85 and this is something that is being changed ."


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## VegasMatt (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*

Maybe someday I'll pick up an old beater car with fuel injection at an auction and play around with running E85 in it. If it kills it, it's no big deal. But I certainly wouldn't roll the dice on something as new and sophisticated as a Touareg.
You may want to see if another 24-valve VR6-powered vehicle (Golf, etc) has had any success running E85 before trying it. Even then, the fuel system in the Touareg may have differences that would have a different result from another vehicle, but the engine hardware is mostly the same from what I understand.
If you do try it, certainly let us know how it goes. But, I would suggest sticking with gasoline only for the sake of your Touareg. It may work fine, but it might also lead to many problems you may have to pay for on your own, as your warranty (if you still are covered by it) will be toast on the components affected by it.
Just be careful...
Matt


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (VegasMatt)*

There are E85-specific sensors and calibrations that have to come into play in order to run successfully on E85. I can tell you stories of a number of non-E85 GM cars which were filled with E85 and subsequently towed in for no-start conditions.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (VegasMatt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VegasMatt* »_Maybe someday I'll pick up an old beater car with fuel injection at an auction and play around with running E85 in it. If it kills it, it's no big deal. But I certainly wouldn't roll the dice on something as new and sophisticated as a Touareg.
You may want to see if another 24-valve VR6-powered vehicle (Golf, etc) has had any success running E85 before trying it. Even then, the fuel system in the Touareg may have differences that would have a different result from another vehicle, but the engine hardware is mostly the same from what I understand.
If you do try it, certainly let us know how it goes. But, I would suggest sticking with gasoline only for the sake of your Touareg. It may work fine, but it might also lead to many problems you may have to pay for on your own, as your warranty (if you still are covered by it) will be toast on the components affected by it.
Just be careful...
Matt

I know an Golf MKIII VR6 running pure E85 without any modifications, with slight cold start problems...thats all. All i am saying is that you guys should stop looking at E85 as something that can HURT engine or engine components.


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## VegasMatt (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_All i am saying is that you guys should stop looking at E85 as something that can HURT engine or engine components.

I'm not as worried about it hurting engine or engine components (or fuel system components for that matter) as much as I don't want to hurt my wallet when I have to have it towed in, fuel system flushed, etc etc to get it running again because I ran a fuel the engineers did not design the vehicle for. Plus, the black spot on my record at the service department for doing something like that.
Personally, I like the idea of E85. I like it a lot. But, I like the idea of running it in a vehicle designed for it, that's all. A vehicle where it will run with NO issues whatsoever, and if issues do happen, a service department/manufacturer that can support it.
Matt


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: E85 on Touareg? (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_Did anyone try running E85 on V6/V8 engine? This is probably pointless for USA guys but seeing as E85 over here (Sweden) is really a LOT cheaper ($6 for a gallon of 93 octane and E85 is like 40% cheaper) we could benefit a lot from this.
I am thinking to put some E85 and see how it runs, i wonder if ECU is gonna adapt to like 30% of E85 and 70% benzin.
Any inputs welcome, thanks guys









Seems like you have expressed your own opinion (repeatedly) despite what others have said.
Go ahead! Try E85!
After 8,000 km of 100% E85 use, please report back to us your experience.
Thank you in advance for your feedback and good luck!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: E85 on Touareg? (henna gaijin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *henna gaijin* »_
Seems like you have expressed your own opinion (repeatedly) despite what others have said.
Go ahead! Try E85!
After 8,000 km of 100% E85 use, please report back to us your experience.
Thank you in advance for your feedback and good luck!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Actually i didn't answer any of my questions, i asked if somebody did it or if they know for sure that it will/will not work. All i got are speculations and people re-telling stories they found on websites that are clearly built by people that are in gas-business.
And no, i never thought for a second that my car will run on 100% E85, thats crazy to think it will since mixture requires a lot more E85 then it does for bensin. I am adding 20% of E85 tomorrow in my tank and see how it runs










_Modified by mescaline at 4:09 PM 9-21-2007_


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: E85 on Touareg? (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Actually i didn't answer any of my questions, i asked if somebody did it or if they know for sure that it will/will not work. All i got are speculations and people re-telling stories they found on websites that are clearly built by people that are in gas-business.
And no, i never thought for a second that my car will run on 100% E85, thats crazy to think it will since mixture requires a lot more E85 then it does for bensin. I am adding 20% of E85 tomorrow in my tank and see how it runs









_Modified by mescaline at 4:09 PM 9-21-2007_

It was my impression from your posts that you were exploring the possibility of running E85 instead of gasoline.
My mistake.
Now that I understand what you want to do, I would recommend starting with no more than 10% Ethanol in your tank and see how it performs.
Since your fuel tank is 100 litres and you are adding E85, I would add 12 litres of E85 to a full tank of gasoline.
Here in the US, some parts of the country sell 10% Ethanol/gasoline mix during the winter. I have used this in my Touareg and other vehicles and experienced poorer performance and poorer gas mileage.
Let us know your experience.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: E85 on Touareg? (mescaline)*

VW doesn't seem to rate or qualify their vehicles for E85 or flex fuel according to this list. So I would guess if you use it and your car doesn't run correctly or breaks down, you will be paying for it, not vw.
On a personal note, I think any fuel made from food stocks such as corn or sugar is stupid.


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## 2YY4U (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: E85 on Touareg? (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
On a personal note, I think any fuel made from food stocks such as corn or sugar is stupid. 

I guess you really never heard of how successfull is the industry of sugar cane Alcohol made in Brazil. They use if for over 20 years and have people like George Soros and Bill Gates investing heavily.
This past week a drove a car in Rio de Janeiro, that I could refill with either gasoline or alcohol. Of course, to produce the E85 here in USA, it cost/polutes way more than in Brazil because the technology here is bad and there is a lot of lobbyist on the petroleum side....


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: E85 on Touareg? (2YY4U)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2YY4U* »_
I guess you really never heard of how successfull is the industry of sugar cane Alcohol made in Brazil. They use if for over 20 years and have people like George Soros and Bill Gates investing heavily.
This past week a drove a car in Rio de Janeiro, that I could refill with either gasoline or alcohol. Of course, to produce the E85 here in USA, it cost/polutes way more than in Brazil because the technology here is bad and there is a lot of lobbyist on the petroleum side....

I have heard about it. No doubt the cost of farming this crop in Brazil is much lower than farming corn or sugar here. In the end, we will probably become importers of alcohol for E85 because there are many places in the world that have lower costs than the US. Is that any better than importers of oil?
Also remember, the US government is subsidizing many of these alternative fuel programs here. In Sweden, the subsidy is lower taxes on this fuel.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

soon gas prices in USA are gonna jump sky high, everybody will HAVE to switch to this green stuff fuels...or to public transport


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## good_2_rub_a_dub (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: (mescaline)*

http://www.e85flexkit.com/taxcredit.htm
http://e85vehicles.com/e85/ind....html

http://forums.turbobricks.com/...73061


_Modified by good_2_rub_a_dub at 7:32 AM 10-5-2007_


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: (good_2_rub_a_dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *good_2_rub_a_dub* »_http://www.e85flexkit.com/taxcredit.htm
http://e85vehicles.com/e85/ind....html

http://forums.turbobricks.com/...73061

_Modified by good_2_rub_a_dub at 7:32 AM 10-5-2007_

So ... what's your point?
Here's what I got out of your links:
*Since cars running E85 requires roughly 30% more fuel, a tank of E85 will not get you as far as a tank of gasoline and you will have to refuel more often. This is often disregarded by E85 users who learn to live with it because of the economical gains.
A car converted, but not specifically mapped for E85 will consume ~30% more fuel.
A car running E85 will require ~42% more fuel.
Cars running on E85 have some trouble starting when the engine temperature drops below +5*C. [That's 41*F]
The smell from the exhaust is much nicer.*

Was this the message you wanted to get across?
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by henna gaijin at 8:14 AM 10-5-2007_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (henna gaijin)*

I'll stick with diesel or biodiesel, thank you.

_Quote, originally posted by *henna gaijin* »_
So ... what's your point?
Here's what I got out of your links:
*Since cars running E85 requires roughly 30% more fuel, a tank of E85 will not get you as far as a tank of gasoline and you will have to refuel more often. This is often disregarded by E85 users who learn to live with it because of the economical gains.
A car converted, but not specifically mapped for E85 will consume ~30% more fuel.
A car running E85 will require ~42% more fuel.
Cars running on E85 have some trouble starting when the engine temperature drops below +5*C. [That's 41*F]
The smell from the exhaust is much nicer.*

Was this the message you wanted to get across?
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

_Modified by henna gaijin at 8:14 AM 10-5-2007_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (henna gaijin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *henna gaijin* »_
So ... what's your point?
Here's what I got out of your links:
*Since cars running E85 requires roughly 30% more fuel, a tank of E85 will not get you as far as a tank of gasoline and you will have to refuel more often. This is often disregarded by E85 users who learn to live with it because of the economical gains.
A car converted, but not specifically mapped for E85 will consume ~30% more fuel.
A car running E85 will require ~42% more fuel.
Cars running on E85 have some trouble starting when the engine temperature drops below +5*C. [That's 41*F]
The smell from the exhaust is much nicer.*

Was this the message you wanted to get across?
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

_Modified by henna gaijin at 8:14 AM 10-5-2007_


Nothing negative about that, yes car will consume more E85 but not nearly that much as you said, plus E85 is a LOT cheaper in "modern" countries where we tax gas prices sky high so people move to green fuels. I would save roughly 30%+ money driving on E85 when compared to bensin, I wouldn't sacrifice any power, i even might gain some since i can advance timing on E85 and cold starts are history, there are engine "warmers" that fix this.
I just put 20% of E85 in my touareg, couldn't tell a difference so far!


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_I'll stick with diesel or biodiesel, thank you.


Not for long you won't, in Sweden only yearly taxes on V10 are $2100, diesel prices when compared to 93 octane are ALMOST the same. I see more and more countries going the same path.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Not for long you won't, in Sweden only yearly taxes on V10 are $2100, diesel prices when compared to 93 octane are ALMOST the same. I see more and more countries going the same path.

Chances of the USA taxing vehicles based on engine size is ZERO! 
Prices of diesel and 93 octane are usually the same in the fall and winter but diesel is lower in the spring and summer. In addition, I get 20 to 25% better fuel economy and much more torque than a gas V8.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Chances of the USA taxing vehicles based on engine size is ZERO! 
Prices of diesel and 93 octane are usually the same in the fall and winter but diesel is lower in the spring and summer. In addition, I get 20 to 25% better fuel economy and much more torque than a gas V8.

Not necessarily on engine size but on C02 capacity









Once you have to shell out $2000 for taxes i will ask you if you gonna like driving diesels and that time will come, its called human race getting smarter and more...modern








This is why E85 is very very VERY interesting for us, i understand americans being ignorant now because honestly it doesnt pay off itself for you guys but we HAVE to get this going or else pretty soon no one is gonna be able to afford DRIVING a car over here because of so damn high gas prices :/


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## good_2_rub_a_dub (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*

I agree that biodiesel is a better over-all solution, but for those of us with petrol engines e85 is an option.
There are many more pros/cons besides those you listed.
For cars not specifically designed for e85 some tweaking is required to ensure optimal performance.
You forgot to add these e85 pros;
1. increased horsepower/torque
2. some actually report increased gas mileage with properly tuned engine due to power and efficiency increases.
3. less engine wear
4. cleaner exhaust
5. renewable resources
6. lowers engine and intake temps and raises octane - which is good for turbos if fuel adjustments are made.
I think the biggest con against e85 is the lack of refueling stations and miles per gallon - but when it becomes widespread and the price drops even lower that will change.
Personally, I would like to see biodiesel become more prevalent but it will take a long time to phase out all the petrol vehicles in america...


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## nltomba (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (good_2_rub_a_dub)*

actually you lose horsepower and torque and worse mileage


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (nltomba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nltomba* »_actually you lose horsepower and torque and worse mileage









No you dont, E85 is colder, you gain like 20% more power, its like chipping car all over again


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: (nltomba)*

In order for this to be a legitimate Touareg discussion, shouldn't it be possible to run E85 in a Touareg?
Who makes the larger injectors for E85?
Who has the tuned ECU for E85 in a Touareg?
If the answers are, "Not available," then why waste time talking about it in a Touareg forum?
JAT


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (henna gaijin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *henna gaijin* »_In order for this to be a legitimate Touareg discussion, shouldn't it be possible to run E85 in a Touareg?
Who makes the larger injectors for E85?
Who has the tuned ECU for E85 in a Touareg?
If the answers are, "Not available," then why waste time talking about it in a Touareg forum?
JAT


Both are very possible and available, larger injectors are avilable and so are zillion tuners that will tune just your vehicle, directly on dyno


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## good_2_rub_a_dub (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: (henna gaijin)*

the touareg is a big fuel consumer - _that's why_ (to use the pun from the new mercedes commercials...)
(why did we build a mercedes that costs an arm and a leg? - because you have too much money and we want it - that's why)
IMO, a dedicated e85 section on each VW and Audi model forum would be great - but we don't have one yet.


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## nltomba (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*

It is not colder







temp is the same.
E85 has less energy than gas so you have to be heavier on the foot then on gasoline, so you will you more of the stuff with the same driving style, killing the benefit of cheaper fuel at the pump.
If you still say I am wrong prove it tome and I will rest my case


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## good_2_rub_a_dub (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: (nltomba)*

the fuel is the same temp, but ethanol burns with less heat than gasoline
http://www.popularmechanics.co...age=2


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## nltomba (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (good_2_rub_a_dub)*

Mescaline, read the link from the post above.
Yes you can get more power out of E85 but it will not be a flex fuel car anymore


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## good_2_rub_a_dub (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: (nltomba)*

you'd have to adjust it back and forth depend on the fuel used, this is also a solution;
http://flextek.com/commercial.htm
can switch back and forth using a switch on the unit itself


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## ToRookie (Jul 3, 2007)

IT'S TIME the EUROS (mescaline) - stop pushing their crappy ideas or poles on us, it's enough the UN is unsuccessfully trying to control us already. Since you're (mescaline) so set on E85 that you can't stop blabbing about it, push your crap experiment on volvo. maybe they will will use ya as one of their dummies in their "oh, so safe vehicles". good luck there buddy. 
In my opinion all touaregs should have come standard with a v10 DIESEL twin-turbo or v12 plus a badge stating NO E85. And by the way we all see which way social Brasil is headed along with the crap investors like Soros and Gates. I'm getting a MAC next!


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (ToRookie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ToRookie* »_IT'S TIME the EUROS (mescaline) - stop pushing their crappy ideas or poles on us, it's enough the UN is unsuccessfully trying to control us already. Since you're (mescaline) so set on E85 that you can't stop blabbing about it, push your crap experiment on volvo. maybe they will will use ya as one of their dummies in their "oh, so safe vehicles". good luck there buddy. 
In my opinion all touaregs should have come standard with a v10 DIESEL twin-turbo or v12 plus a badge stating NO E85. And by the way we all see which way social Brasil is headed along with the crap investors like Soros and Gates. I'm getting a MAC next!

This is forum dedicated to car that comes from EUROS, we control auto industry, you will have to eat whatever we serve you, sorry but sooner you accept reality easier its gonna be on you








PS: I am not gonna even go into reasons why E85!


_Modified by mescaline at 4:35 AM 10-10-2007_


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## whammie (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: (good_2_rub_a_dub)*

Guys,
Let's keep this friendly here!!!
Yes there are a different set of reasons for changing the way we fuel our energy needs as there are different alternative fuels. KEEP IN MIND.... NONE of the the talked about ones are the long term solution, they are all fixes and patches for now and all have their merits. Hopefully with them combined we can start changing our ways and help the environment. Unfortunately, economics always drives this!!!
Biofuels, ethanol for example in Brazil has its own issues and also reasons why it does really well. For example, they use sugar cane, which grows rapidly can be readily processed and distilled to get ethanol and yes this makes it cheap especially with the labor. However, deforestation is becoming an issue, worker's rights and health, amongst other issues. In the states we are talking about ethanol from corn, grows slower, takes more to process into ethanol. FACT IS MORE ENERGY IS USED TO MAKE ETHANOL FROM CORN THAN IS RECEIVED. AND GUESS WHERE IT COMES FROM..............OIL/COAL!!!
So as I said lets keep it friendly and allow open dialogue. This is what the forums are for. It is not a US vs EURO thing or anything.
BTW, mescaline, whoever told you that burning ethanol did not cause problems with elastomeric components was a myth is full of SH*T. I am a Chemical Engineer and can tell you that unless components are designed to handle the compounds created by the combustion of alcohols, they will deteriote. Now keeping that in mind, most cars in the US are designed to run on a 10% ethanol gas blend for the winter months so I would say that most of the issues people had earlier would probably be reduced or eliminated.
One final point, if we really only cared about the environment and fuel efficiency and cost etc..... WE WOULDN'T BE DRIVING TOUAREGS!!!! And Yes I drove a V10 TDI, so who is talking out of both sides of his you know what


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

there are a lot more "chemical engineers" that did testing and stuff and showed that E85 would really save our enviroment, of course all this hell is at its early stage, there are only a few countries taxing their gas prices according to CO2 so damn high but bio fuels are FUTURE and we must accept it.
I am surprised that we even question this in here. We should be getting more info on how to run E85 instead of questioning if we should


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## nltomba (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*

E 85 will not be the answer. I do not buy a V8 beast with 310 horses to throw E85 in to end up with the power of a V6.
they are trying to put in a plant nearby that will cost more than it will produce. It is all subsidized.
Why not spend all that money to work on lighter and more fuel EFFICIENT cars?
Throw all that biocrap in powerplants. Those things do not care what you thrwow in it


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## VegasMatt (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: (nltomba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nltomba* »_Throw all that biocrap in powerplants. Those things do not care what you thrwow in it

Amen to that!
Does anyone know what the percentage of fossil fuel use is for powerplants versus vehicle use? I'd be interested to see some figures/info. 
I'd be extremely surprised if the powerplans use less than vehicles.
So Mescaline, how's your Touareg running on the E85 "custom blend" you've been using?
Matt


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## whammie (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: (VegasMatt)*

This is my point, I am reluctant to even say I am an engineer because of replies like mescaline's. I am not saying it s a problem or not saying you need to be aware that things have to be designed for a purpose.
The whole purpose of taxing gas to make E85 attractive is just that, to make it attractive. E85 is not the only answer nor is it the best one. I hate it when people jump on a bandwagon and tout their solution as the only one.....hmm let me see HYBRIDS.








Again, hybrids are part of the solution and not all solutions will work in every place in the world. Did you ever consider what it takes to make the ethanol in E85??? The CO2 emissions from that manufacture? The cost to distribute it, build the infrastructure? No I didn't think so.
So do not turn this thread into political BS.....the question was asked if you could use E85 in a Touareg. The short answer is probably yes, but I would not try it and risk losing warranty coverage, especially since I drive a TDI








BTW, if you plan on using only about 20% E85 your effective Ethanol per tank is then only 17%, in my book BFD. You just reduce your consumption of fossile fuel by 7%. So what? And can you run it like that, again probably, we use E10 here in the winter anyways so you are pretty close at that.
Spend your time and money researching more long term solutions, biodiesel from Algae, and more efficient motors, lighter cars, better mass transit solutions etc.... Politics and brainwashing are winning not the hard facts


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (VegasMatt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VegasMatt* »_
Amen to that!
Does anyone know what the percentage of fossil fuel use is for powerplants versus vehicle use? I'd be interested to see some figures/info. 
I'd be extremely surprised if the powerplans use less than vehicles.
So Mescaline, how's your Touareg running on the E85 "custom blend" you've been using?
Matt

In the USA, we are:
49.7% coal
19.3% nuclear
18.7% natural gas
6.5% hydroelectric
3% oil
2.9% other
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...ation
Coal can also be converted into liquid fuels like gasoline or diesel by several different processes. Estimates of the cost of producing liquid fuels from coal suggest that domestic U.S. production of fuel from coal becomes cost-competitive with oil priced at around 35 USD per barrel, (break-even cost). This price, while above historical averages, is well below current oil prices. This makes coal a viable financial alternative to oil for the time being, although production is not great enough to make synfuels viable on a large scale.The energy value of all the world's recoverable coal is expected to last 200 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (nltomba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nltomba* »_E 85 will not be the answer. I do not buy a V8 beast with 310 horses to throw E85 in to end up with the power of a V6.
they are trying to put in a plant nearby that will cost more than it will produce. It is all subsidized.
Why not spend all that money to work on lighter and more fuel EFFICIENT cars?
Throw all that biocrap in powerplants. Those things do not care what you thrwow in it

You will end up with 350-370hp beast actually


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (VegasMatt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VegasMatt* »_
So Mescaline, how's your Touareg running on the E85 "custom blend" you've been using?
Matt

Honestly no difference at all, but again it was only around 20%... its a little difference when it comes to economic too so unless i find out i can run 100% E85 somehow, i wont attempt this again.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Honestly no difference at all, but again it was only around 20%... its a little difference when it comes to economic too so unless i find out i can run 100% E85 somehow, i wont attempt this again.

Isn't 100% E85 just 85% ethanol and 15% regular gasoline? Or did you mean to say 100% ethanol?


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## good_2_rub_a_dub (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: (whammie)*

"Spend your time and money researching more long term solutions, biodiesel from Algae, and more efficient motors, lighter cars, better mass transit solutions etc.... Politics and brainwashing are winning not the hard facts"
so true, algae biodiesel and geothermal energy are the way IMO - at the same time, algae can also make ethanol, or even hydrogen.
It will take some time to switch over to diesel cars - the American system is trying to ensure that - so better sources of ethanol will be helpful. Ethanol still burns much cleaner than gasoline and when you have local algae refineries it will be cheaper and cause less CO2 emissions to transport.
especially when those ethanol delivery trucks are made green.
every state can have multiple algae-based refineries close to major population areas in order to increase self-sufficiency, lower prices, and lower the economic and environmental costs of transport.



_Modified by good_2_rub_a_dub at 5:42 PM 10-10-2007_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Isn't 100% E85 just 85% ethanol and 15% regular gasoline? Or did you mean to say 100% ethanol?

No i meant 100% E85, i wanna run fuel i can find on gas station and almost every gas station in Sweden has E85!


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## nltomba (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
You will end up with 350-370hp beast actually










A gallon of E85 has an energy content of about 80,000 BTU, compared to gasoline's 124,800 BTU. So about 1.56 gal. of E85 takes you as far as 1 gal. of gas.
The performance of E85 vehicles is potentially higher than that of gasoline vehicles because E85's high octane rating allows a much higher compression ratio, which translates into higher thermodynamic efficiency. However, FFVs that retain the capacity to run on gasoline alone can't really take advantage of this octane boost since they also need to be able to run on pump-grade gasoline.
I guess you still have not read the popular mechanics story yet.








[


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (nltomba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nltomba* »_
A gallon of E85 has an energy content of about 80,000 BTU, compared to gasoline's 124,800 BTU. So about 1.56 gal. of E85 takes you as far as 1 gal. of gas.
The performance of E85 vehicles is potentially higher than that of gasoline vehicles because E85's high octane rating allows a much higher compression ratio, which translates into higher thermodynamic efficiency. However, FFVs that retain the capacity to run on gasoline alone can't really take advantage of this octane boost since they also need to be able to run on pump-grade gasoline.
I guess you still have not read the popular mechanics story yet.








[

Because of E85's high octane rating you can run a LOT more timing than on gasoline, allowing you to boost performance dramatically.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Because of E85's high octane rating you can run a LOT more timing than on gasoline, allowing you to boost performance dramatically.


But where can I buy E85 in my state? Answer; I can't.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=...6&z=6


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## nltomba (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*

Sigh, you are so stuck in your thoughts that you still have not read popular mechanics.
If you would have read my previous post you would have known that you are true. However. the problem is that you can not magically turn up the compression ratio on your treg engine.
I have been runing into





















to many times now so I decided that it will be excellent for you to run E85 in your treg, get 350 hp and 400000 miles without engine failure







Oh and do something with the 15k it costs to replace an engine since you won't need it










_Modified by nltomba at 7:12 AM 10-12-2007_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (nltomba)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nltomba* »_Sigh, you are so stuck in your thoughts that you still have not read popular mechanics.
If you would have read my previous post you would have known that you are true. However. the problem is that you can not magically turn up the compression ratio on your treg engine.
I have been runing into





















to many times now so I decided that it will be excellent for you to run E85 in your treg, get 350 hp and 400000 miles without engine failure







Oh and do something with the 15k it costs to replace an engine since you won't need it









_Modified by nltomba at 7:12 AM 10-12-2007_

you don't NEED to turn up compression ratio on touareg to gain power, do you even know what timing is? Who is talking about compression? Damn.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_

But where can I buy E85 in my state? Answer; I can't.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=...6&z=6

I know, but soon you will be able to, trust me. It's just question of time before gas prices in USA go sky SHOCKING high and people start looking into other solutions.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
I know, but soon you will be able to, trust me. It's just question of time before gas prices in USA go sky SHOCKING high and people start looking into other solutions.

When? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? Have you been listening to George Soros?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
When? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? Have you been listening to George Soros? 

Ok you be ignorant all you want.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (mescaline)*

This tread is done!


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