# can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line?



## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

here are the specs of this audi tt:
GT3071R
2008l stroker rev to 8700rpm (double springs, OS valves)
400 whp minimum (480 HP at crank if u believe in 20% trans loss)
weight: stripped down to 1170kg
0-60mph - unknown
LSD installed
no electronic speed limiter
FWD
Power to weight ratio: 410bhp/ton
FRONT WHEELS: 315/30ZR/19
REAR WHEELS: 295/35ZR/19
modified to 6-speed

Here are the specs of the 911 S:
3.6L turbo
480 HP (at crank)
weight: 1585 kg 
top speed 310.6 kph / 193 mph 
no LSD
0-60mph - 3.8s
AWD
Power to weight ratio: 303bhp/ton
FRONT WHEELS: 235/35ZR19 
REAR WHEELS: 305/30ZR19 
http://auto-specs.zercustoms.c....html
RACE IS ROLLING START (start at 50mph) ...no ending speed...whoever goes into the horizon and leaves the other in the dust
closed road - no cars..sponsor will close the roads
straight road.

and why?



_Modified by robingohtt at 10:34 AM 4-4-2009_


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

rolling start


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## vdubguy97 (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

The Audi TT will win. 
If you are talking about a "996 Turbo" then its all wheel drive. Will still be a good race.


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## duffmanh06 (Apr 22, 2008)

*Re: (vdubguy97)*

...who buys a front wheel drive audi?







nice set up tho!


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

please vote guys! cause the race is going to take place in June on an autobahn-like highway..no speed limits



_Modified by robingohtt at 10:08 AM 4-4-2009_


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## vdubguy97 (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (robingohtt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *robingohtt* »_vote guys! cause the race is going to take place in June on an autobahn-like highway..no speed limits

_Modified by robingohtt at 10:03 AM 4-4-2009_

Eventually the Porsche will walk away from the Audi if indeed this is a how fast can we go race









what year is the Porsche?


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

its a how fast can u go for 5 mins race
specs of the porker just added on top
6 speed trans for the FWD audi tt




_Modified by robingohtt at 10:11 AM 4-4-2009_


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line? (robingohtt)*

You must specify the starting and ending speeds.
I'd say if you start under 80, the 911 will walk away


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

interesting that u should say that, bob...why?
gearing ratio? torque? top speed? No replacement for displacement?
and if the rolling start is raised at 80mph..why is there a difference. I really want to hear this, bob? thanks!



_Modified by robingohtt at 10:31 AM 4-4-2009_


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (robingohtt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *robingohtt* »_interesting that u should say that, bob...why?
gearing ratio? torque? top speed?
and if the rolling start is raised at 80mph..why is there a difference. I really want to hear this, bob? thanks!

_Modified by robingohtt at 10:21 AM 4-4-2009_


So you are saying this race is you start at a particular place and run for 5 minutes? So it is really a road race, not a drag race?
1. Sounds insanely dangerous for a public road, Autobahn or not.
2. The driver will have an extremely large influence on the outcome.
3. Assuming equal drivers, the Porsche will run away given its much better handling characteristics in that environment.
4. If you have a true 400whp, traction will be a problem, especially when you turn the wheel.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

closed road - no cars..sponsor will close the roads
road wont be opened to the public until a month later..road to an airport - newly built
straight road.


_Modified by robingohtt at 10:36 AM 4-4-2009_


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

5 minutes at avg of say 130mph =~11 miles.
Never seen a road that was really straight for 11 miles, but I suppose it is possible. Remember, "straight" at 60mph does not equal straight at 130mph.
So now the race is like Bonnevile. Traction really isn't an issue then. It is all about total hp and aerodynamics.
That is one heck of a long time to hold a 400hp 1.8T flat to the floor.


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## drmerdp (May 11, 2005)

*Re: can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line? (robingohtt)*

I see the TT having drag issues at really high speeds. I vote 911.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

it has slight curves (course no road is dead straight) as this route connects 2 countries..a new expressway..from google maps, u can see it is straight from satelite..total length = 150km
so it that possible for 5 mins?
I have gone 220km/h straight for about 10 seconds on the route. I counted 1- 10 while my hands were sweating. (1 thousand 1, 1 thousand 2, 1 thousand 3,...u get the drift)
so I think the driver needs balls on steel to leave it at WOT for the entire time so u r right about the driver.. I certainly cant do it.



_Modified by robingohtt at 11:19 AM 4-4-2009_


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## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

im interested just to see how the tt holds up in that environment for such a long period. hope the tt has an additional or larger oil cooler. here are my questions....
1. will the 3071r fall off at top end?
2. will the tt be able to run WOT for the duration of the event?
3. what safety precautions (for the car and driver) are in place?
power wise its tt > porsche
aero wise porsche > tt
at this point its pretty even to me. the porsche will be hindered up top by its awd. the tt might not be able to sustain wot. the porsche has better aerodynamics. the tt has better power to weight ratio. yadayadayada


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

3. custom roll cage for the TT 
2. drivers dont have to run WOT for 5 minutes...it's up to the drivers..we measure a certain distance..see who gets there fastest.
I dont think any driver will be nuts enough to run 200mph for 5 mins! the car will be unstable!
I drove 220km/h for 10s (about) and my hands were like going to fall off and me getting a heart-attack!
I have to plan the event..I might recommend a shorter timing..maybe 2 mins...so I am trying to figure out..
maybe I am just trying to find out the condition in which the tt will win.
1) strip another 30 -40kg for the TT (possible with full lexan windows)?
2) install GT 3076 (but that will make the TT more torque-steery)?
3) shorten time to 1 min?
4) add methanol injection?
25-row oil cooler



_Modified by robingohtt at 11:48 AM 4-4-2009_


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## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

just make sure you guys think everything through... dont need anyone getting hurt then a lawsuit ensuing.
i still dont know if the 3071 will have enough steam to get the job done up top. if you were on a 3076 or even something bigger there would be no question. what im saying is you might get to 150mph before the porsche but while you're struggling to get to 155 etc, the porsche's starting to settle in and begins its walk or possible run. 
given the right conditions the tt can win. what those conditions are is what you need to find out. 
its like pinks lol... you have to do the right negotiating.


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## TallaiMan (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line? (robingohtt)*

The thing that worries me is the ending speed. A 996 Turbo will be much more stable at high speed than a FWD TT.
FWIW, 400WHP on our dyno in a heavier B5 A4 Quattro is more than enough to get away from a 996 Turbo.
That was on a 3071R with stock stroke and an 81.5 mm bore, revving to 8500.
However, I've never kept my foot to the floor for 5 minutes. That's not something I would recommend for anyone to do...
But, speculation is just speculation. I vote for live video of the race.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

the TT is designed with a downforce in mind...GT wing included..not yr average stock tt..read the tire specs.








I dont think anyone is going to stamp their foot for 5 mins either..10 seconds with stock audi tt tune at 220km/h, I saw visions of my next life that I will be reborn as a horse, man.


_Modified by robingohtt at 11:56 AM 4-4-2009_


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## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (robingohtt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *robingohtt* »_the TT is designed with a downforce in mind...GT wing included..not yr average stock tt..read the tire specs.








I dont think anyone is going to stamp their foot for 5 mins either..10 seconds with stock audi tt tune at 220km/h, I saw visions of my next life that I will be reborn as a horse, man.

_Modified by robingohtt at 11:56 AM 4-4-2009_

FRONT WHEELS: 315/30ZR/19
REAR WHEELS: 295/35ZR/19

thats a lot of meat up front.
my fronts are 225 lol


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

yes..widebody


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line? (robingohtt)*

Porsche is going to destroy you. 
If you don't post up for awhile on here....we will know why.
I think people call it losing the survival of the fittest awards.....others call it the darwin awards. You are going to be a future award winner.


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## ugagirl85 (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line? (robingohtt)*

Aerodynamics and gearing are going to decide this. You have a car that came designed for 225hp. The Porsche was designed for more than twice that. Sure you've added power, suspension, tires, etc etc, and power to weight is on your side, but once you get to ~150mph/240km/h, the Porsche will pull away. What six speed are you using? If the 225Q trans, the short final drive will be the biggest problem, even with increased revs. If it's the FWD 02M, then you're a little better off. How fast have you had the car up to before? You keep saying at ~220 km/h you were nervous. If so, how are you going to handle another 80km/h? And if you're not going to, who's going to be driving it?


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

ooi, I am just here to see the probability of winning..if it seems not likely..I will ask the sponsor to do another type of event, as it was one of the brainstorming sessions that brought out that possibility
or maybe we take on a slower car.. : )
I dont underestimate the best car in the world, IMO, mate..the 911 turbo...The R35 was designed to destroy it and heck, the Mk 1 is not an R35 by a mile..
for the record, the 911 GT3 is my favourite performance car, period.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

I wont be driving..I just handle the sponsors. I will have to design a promotional campaign around this challenge, 
and the sponsors will engage a professional racing driver for 1 week.
it's suppose to be a wild idea...so is the sponsor
guys, do let me have your comments as I am suppose to get back to the sponsors on monday.
if gearing is an issue, I might need to get a dog engagement trans and spec ou the gearing ..that;s why I asked bob above earlier if gearing was an issue
engine is not built yet though all the parts are here. 
the rest is done



_Modified by robingohtt at 1:37 PM 4-4-2009_


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## ugagirl85 (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

No need for dog box, just the right finals. I'd flat bottom the car as well.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

thanks...so far the poll results are like 50/50 which is why the sponsor is thinking of this.
no one is going to believe that a car built with the engine built opposite the 911 turbo is going to have a fart of a change to beat it..
the question is:
with the right:
suspension setup
power-to-weight-ratio
aerodynamics custom design
chassis strengthing (custom roll cage)
will it make a difference?
I dont know if some of you remember, a certain timeattack cobalt beat the crap out of a lot of modified cars.
and the new 300hp ford ST FWD is making waves with it's revo-knuckle design with handling ability never seen before.
ok, it's not the same scenario, but the point is controversy is what the sponsor is looking for.


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

So you are telling me someone wants to sponsor this event.....with a stock porsche and your unfinished car. These so called "sponsors" want to hirer a professional driver for an entire week to drive a stock porsche and car that will not likely make 400 whp once its even built.
I feel bad for the sponsors of the event....seems like a waste of investment to me.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (AudiTToR)*

nope, it's a campaign for something else and we needed a challenge to make it more exciting. Something we can film - and we were playing with this idea..as mentioned above.
some of the guys here have seen part of this campaign before with confidentiality, actually. it's a huge online campaign so we wanted to shoot some videos to make it more exciting
I am just checking with you guys whether this particular idea is doable and hope to get some feedback and recommendations, mate








then we access and see if we actually want to commence. We have 2 months to decide. 
so far, we got the road arrangements done. the 911 on standby



_Modified by robingohtt at 1:58 PM 4-4-2009_


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (AudiTToR)*

It's FWD. Unless you're on slicks I think you're gonna lose. 911s put down the power pretty well.
I hate to be a naysayer, but you're going to need haldex unless that guy cant drive.


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: (themachasy)*

where are you guys from again?


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

asia pacific, mate..dude, I understand your skeptism, but at this point I love to show u the build and etc, the map location, details, but as mentioned it's confidential.
as you are not a sponsor of the parts I am not suppose to reveal details..if you dont like where this is going, just treat it as a hypothetical questions: can a FWD modified car beat a 911 turbo. Simple as that, mate


_Modified by robingohtt at 2:08 PM 4-4-2009_


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

Is the turbo automatic? (disregard my last post I didn't realize it was a 50 roll)


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (themachasy)*

themachasy, u got a point that I personally raised up to the sponsor:
Convert to Quattro 
i) but then that would add 80 - 100kg and may ruin the power-to-weight ratio
ii) make it less controversial
I said if we leave it at FWD, then front suspension has to be converted to custom double-wish-bone setup and rear to multi-link. So far, they are still discussing
the 300hp Ford FWD is good because of the Revo knuckle - which is actually a cheap-man's front double-wishbone. Plus $$$ of R&D of course to get the car balance right




_Modified by robingohtt at 2:18 PM 4-4-2009_


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (themachasy)*

turbo automatic?
mmm..u are asking if the car is tiptronic? Dont get u mate, No, 
or ask u asking if it has anti-lag settings.




_Modified by robingohtt at 2:22 PM 4-4-2009_


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (robingohtt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *robingohtt* »_themachasy, u got a point that I personally raised up to the sponsor:
Convert to Quattro 
i) but then that would add 80 - 100kg and may ruin the power-to-weight ratio
ii) make it less controversial
I said if we leave it at FWD, then front suspension has to be converted to custom double-wish-bone setup and rear to multi-link. So far, they are still discussing
the 300hp Ford FWD is good because of the Revo knuckle - which is actually a cheap-man's front double-wishbone. Plus $$$ of R&D of course to get the car balance right
_Modified by robingohtt at 2:18 PM 4-4-2009_

I still don't buy what ford did as helping absolute traction. You don't need to convert anything in the front, get some sticky tires and go to town. Look at all the folks on this forum who are running fast times with drag radials.... It'll hook at 50 and you SHOULD beat the turbo.
We have 500hp hondas around here that roll race and are pretty damn strong and don't have horrendous traction issues.
And yes, I was asking if the Turbo is tiptronic. I just call it automatic because anyone who thinks its anything different is just fooling themselves.

_Modified by themachasy at 2:23 PM 4-4-2009_


_Modified by themachasy at 2:23 PM 4-4-2009_


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

Hoping for a video from each car


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

nope..not automatic..
yep, I did recommend at least Michelin Pilot Sport Cups (semi-slicks) .. or slicks
slicks, sponsors thought that slicks arent used normally on roads..so they were against it.
it still has to look like a normal road car (custom built) against a normal road car
and yes, yes,,I am sure some of you might ask..this TT has a roll cage, for god's sake..
here is the thing..it's not a normal roll cage with like 10-points etc..and a small space to squeeze in..it's a cage concept design - on a normal day, u can un-bolt on the top cage, on track day, u can bolt the full set for track duty. 
and some performance cars do come with cages straight out the factory - the 911 GT3 and the renault sport R26R
if slicks were allowed, it would have made my life easier, mate


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## vdubguy97 (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

Im sorry but its gonna be waste of your time. You will loose, I drive Porsche's everyday for a living and own a very fast FWD GTI with almost the same setup as you, You may get a jump on him from the 50 to 125mph but then the Porsche will real you in and sustained its top speed for as long as it wants, which has a much higher top speed then your TT. If the 911 turbo has any mods done to it you don't stand a chance. 
What year is the Porsche? Im guessing its a 996


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (robingohtt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *robingohtt* »_
I drove 220km/h for 10s (about) and my hands were like going to fall off and me getting a heart-attack!


Dude, i saw scale on my speedometer tip 260km/h many times and kept it far longer than 10 seconds lol ...autobahn would own you, imagen situation where you go 220km/h and an M6 lands behind you and starts flashing you to move aside...you move (keeping both hands on the wheel like its gonna fall off) and beemer takes off like its going 100km/h lol ....this is when i am sorry i am throwing cash at my car because at those speeds it will always be a snowflake, no matter what, will i outrun it to 200km/h? probably...but at this speed he can drink tea in that beemer lol
If i were you i would look into improving aerodynamics of your car, add some wing to the back to keep you on the road, splitters...stuff like this, car will feel more stable and you will be more comfortable = bigger chance for win. More comfortable driver will always win the race, no matter what.


_Modified by mescaline at 3:00 PM 4-4-2009_


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

it's right in front. thanks for the input. great to see someone who has both types of cars to chip in. much appreciated. please vote?
can I ask u a question?
so top speed is a big issue. then the question is why didnt u increase top speed of yr GTI - did u lightened it? did it help?
what is the top speed of yr modified Golf?
top speed is affected by:
aerodynamics - (drag)
This is a function of the frontal area (fA) of the car and its coefficient of drag (Cd). The Cd is a measure of how "slippery" a shape is as the air goes round it. I think the aerodynamics of the golf is different from the audi tt
weight of car
ROLLING RESISTANCE 
Defined as the force needed to just start a car rolling on flat ground this force is mainly a function of vehicle weight. That is why lightening the car helps a lot.

HP - Let's say we want to increase the top speed of a car by 10% - we need about 33% extra power to achieve 10% increase in top speed. So far the increase is from 180hp to 400hp (at least). so did you golf reflect this? hence my question what is yr golf top speed?

gearing - hence did you change yr gears on your golf ?
much appreciated, mate



_Modified by robingohtt at 3:20 PM 4-4-2009_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (vdubguy97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubguy97* »_Im sorry but its gonna be waste of your time. You will loose, I drive Porsche's everyday for a living and own a very fast FWD GTI with almost the same setup as you, You may get a jump on him from the 50 to 125mph but then the Porsche will real you in and sustained its top speed for as long as it wants, which has a much higher top speed then your TT. If the 911 turbo has any mods done to it you don't stand a chance. 
What year is the Porsche? Im guessing its a 996

x2, i have Merc diesel with 250hp and it can top 240km/h, i would drive it at this speed for a year no problems... i definitely wouldn't do the same with my GTI. You gotta talk that dude into some drag racing, 0-220km/h and thats it...you might outrun it ,....porsche is claiming 190 mph top speed on that thing, if its true...it can probably keep this for as long as it wants, you can't


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (robingohtt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *robingohtt* »_
HP - Let's say we want to increase the top speed of a car by 10% - we need about 33% extra power to achieve 10% increase in top speed. So far the increase is from 180hp to 400hp (at least). so did you golf reflect this? hence my question what is yr golf top speed?


You probably have the power to max out your transmission, that's not the problem... it's just that if you go too fast you might take off, airjet style... add these and you will be ok 









lol, seriously...by looking at the car i think audi tt is far more aerodynamic than GTI, you might wanna find somebody that does this professionally, find some air tunnel or something.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

this TT was designed on a simulated air tunnel program to increase downforce significantly and decrease drag - even though it's widebody.

GT wing, front carnards, front fender lourves, large front air dam, rear fender lourves, rear diffuser and (if the sponsors really listen - flat-bed base)
Super GT, LeMans, WTCC and DTM cars are all widebody yet have less drag and higher downforce - with the aid of an actual air-tunnel or an air-tunnel simulation program
the thing is without the right engine, gearing and weight, all that is all-paper theory
_Modified by robingohtt at 3:22 PM 4-4-2009_


_Modified by robingohtt at 3:23 PM 4-4-2009_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Well as said earlier...you definitely have power to out-accelerate it...the problem is top speed and keeping it at safe levels so you don't have to slow down at those light corners...because trust me, porsche won't slow down. Do you think you can drive 300km/h for 5 minutes? Because I really think 996 can...and you pray to God he didn't flash it or something


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

I am not driving it, mate. as mentioned, 
and I dont think the porsche is going to go at 300km/h for 5 mins..it will gather enough wind underneath its bottom to lift-off! : )
and I might arrange for just 1 min . that might make it:
less dangerous (cause top speed is dangerous at high sustained levels so maybe there might b a rule to sort this out)
more favourable










_Modified by robingohtt at 3:49 PM 4-4-2009_


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Yea you do that and no porsche wouldn't lift off, if OEM specs are 300km/h it can probably go +30km/h over that with no problems.
Look up top BMW m6 speed on youtube, it goes 330km/h for a while, no problems...and I believe 996 is a lot more aerodynamic than M6.
Anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS_TwXUcN3Y


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

mescaline, thanks..
that was a video of a 911 doing 300 - 330km/h for about 3 mins!
good reference to show the sponsors


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

yea so you have a valid reason ...not to do it, i doubt that road is prepped for this kind of speeds lol,... autobahn is using special kind of asphalt allowing cars to safely reach higher speeds.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

TT will walk away first then the Porsche will eventually pass it, assuming that you run for 5 minutes


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

I've been on the autobahn years ago touring Germany with at the time the New 2002 M5 400hp. I had it pinned @ 250 km/hr for more then 10-15 min at times and still had porches walking me...heck I even had a 1991 VRT blaze by me at those speeds. As long as the road has long banking curves, dry, empty & CAREFUL you should be ok; HOWEVER, you will run out of gear unless you had the option of using a nice long Tdi 5th gear










_Modified by [email protected] at 4:54 PM 4-4-2009_


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## dubchuck117 (Feb 6, 2009)

theres a lot of factors to consider. ok from start to 100 the tt will dominate because of the equal power and lower weight. drivetrain configuration wont matter (i.e. torque steer, traction in general etc.) because youre going too fast for that too matter. after 100 is when the engineering comes into play because then you have to factor in gearing, reliability, and aerodynamics. you can add as much downforce as you want to the tt but the porsche will edge it out here because theres not just downforce to consider theres drag too. the tt may stick but will slow down because it will have a higher coeffecient of drag that the porsche, where this has been designed from the factory and years of racing experience. add to that the gearing of the transmisson. if its too short youll be bouncing off the redline in 6th when the porsche is just shifting. youve probably thought about all this but im just asking.
and lets see some pics of this illustrious 911 beater


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## PimpMyRide (Apr 30, 2004)

*Re: (dubchuck117)*

I doubt hes doing anything. Stop wasting your time giving ideas.


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

400whp is more than enough to beat a stock 996tt....but he has more gearing than you. You'll hit the limiter in 6th, and he'll fly right by.
at those constant speeds/engine loads, race gas is an absolute must.


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## ugagirl85 (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line? (ugagirl85)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ugagirl85* »_What six speed are you using? If the 225Q trans, the short final drive will be the biggest problem, even with increased revs. If it's the FWD 02M, then you're a little better off.


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## audiguy01 (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line? (ugagirl85)*

I have been in a comparable Porsche and have a built TT. I would definitely say it will be a fair fight to 240kph and then the Porsche will walk away slowly. 
The handling is not the issue, it will be the additional drag on the TT that will keep it from matching the Porsche's top speed. I would bet the TT will top out at about 270kph.
I would suggest limiting it to a 1 mile shootout with best of 3 wins. This would give the TT a chance to win and also create great promotional video with needed suspense. We do 1/2 mile and 1 mile shootouts at open road races here in the US. Keep in mind that from a standing start you will be at approximately 200kph at the end of the first 1/2 mile and be about 250 kph by the end of 1 mile.
Unless the road has some tight curvy sections, who ever is ahead at the end of the first mile based on top speed will just win no matter how long the race is which will not make sponsors happy and will bring very little suspense to the race. A slower top speed car can win if there are fast sections followed by curvy sections to force the speeds back down to allow the slower top speed car can carry more corner speed.
From my experience with both cars the TT will be quicker though the Porsche will be faster at top speed.
If you do the TT build it would be great to see aerodynamic findings here on the forum.


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## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: can this audi tt beat a 911 in a straight line? (audiguy01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audiguy01* »_I have been in a comparable Porsche and have a built TT. I would definitely say it will be a fair fight to 240kph and then the Porsche will walk away slowly. 
The handling is not the issue, it will be the additional drag on the TT that will keep it from matching the Porsche's top speed. I would bet the TT will top out at about 270kph.
I would suggest limiting it to a 1 mile shootout with best of 3 wins. This would give the TT a chance to win and also create great promotional video with needed suspense. We do 1/2 mile and 1 mile shootouts at open road races here in the US. Keep in mind that from a standing start you will be at approximately 200kph at the end of the first 1/2 mile and be about 250 kph by the end of 1 mile.
Unless the road has some tight curvy sections, who ever is ahead at the end of the first mile based on top speed will just win no matter how long the race is which will not make sponsors happy and will bring very little suspense to the race. A slower top speed car can win if there are fast sections followed by curvy sections to force the speeds back down to allow the slower top speed car can carry more corner speed.
*From my experience with both cars the TT will be quicker though the Porsche will be faster at top speed.*
If you do the TT build it would be great to see aerodynamic findings here on the forum.

EXACTLY what im thinking.
now you could always switch the 3071r out with a 3076r and decimate the porsche


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

audiguy01, thanks for your great input.
thanks to the many replies here from many of you as well.mescaline, themachasy, vdubguy97. killa, dubchuck117, [email protected], bwell01...and those that I forget to mention
like I said. It's not eay unseating one of the best cars in a world in any arena.
we just have to find out the weakest spot - it's weight disavantage and avoid it's best strength - top speed.
guys, I can't show you the pixs of this tt challenger due the NDA...unless u were a parts sponsor in this build (thanks to the guys who are one of the sponsors who actually contributed to this thread)
I hope you can understand. The car exists and the widebody design exists..it has been further modified for more downforce. It wasnt easy getting a sponsor for this project
I will shot a rough video to test out how it will look (using a homevideo) and see how it goes and share it with you guys..I know a friend who has a 911 turbo (but older version) to see how it goes.
but that's after we shoot every piece of the build
then it up to the sponsors to decide if they want to do it
thanks for all your time guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by robingohtt at 8:55 AM 4-5-2009_


_Modified by robingohtt at 8:55 AM 4-5-2009_


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## audiguy01 (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

As a reference on speeds for a Porsche at the end of 1 mile you can look at the results of a recent event held in Texas called the Texas Mile. There were no TT's there though there were several Porsche's.
This one looks to be a stock setup and the speeds of the three runs are in mph. I have friends that were at this event and they had a 25mph tail wind and 60 degrees Fahrenheit at nearly sea level so the conditions were near perfect.
Porsche/911Turbo/Grey/2004	170.442	170.359	169.167
Texas mile results
Nothing would make me happier to have knowledge that a TT crushed a 911 Turbo in a race; keep us informed.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

much appreciated audiguy01!


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## chrg-in (Jan 24, 2003)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

THE TT WILL LOSE........
for the simple reason that no matter how much power the gearing doesn't beat the 911 turbo gearing. Even the higher redline will not be as efficient nor will the TT be as stable over 150 mph.


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## EvoJetta (May 21, 2001)

*Re: (chrg-in)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrg-in* »_THE TT WILL LOSE........
for the simple reason that no matter how much power the gearing doesn't beat the 911 turbo gearing. Even the higher redline will not be as efficient nor will the TT be as stable over 150 mph.









You are loco Mr. Chrg-In!!! All I know is that I will BEAT YOU in a 1/4 mile race anytime of the week ! ! ! !


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## kclax44 (Aug 4, 2008)

*Re: (EvoJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EvoJetta* »_
You are loco Mr. Chrg-In!!! All I know is that I will BEAT YOU in a 1/4 mile race anytime of the week ! ! ! ! 


SET IT UP!


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## giacTT (May 16, 2007)

*Re: (kclax44)*

? Im really not sure what this comparison has much to do about anything or the odd fact that you say you want to race for 5 minutes.still trying to wrap my brain around what that has to do with anything. I do not condone street racing nor do the sponsors or moderators of this forum ...but i have run into a lambo Gallardo.....an M3 and a porsche gt2... All from 5th gear the Gallardo was not a problem at all...neither was the m3....the porsche is an 11 second car off the showroom floor....I assume you know this fact already. However, i have more hp than you are hoping to have and he still pulled a few cars on me. And i have never ridden in a porsche going 150+ mph but i can tell you the TT was very firm and planted


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## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (giacTT)*

I too just can't figure out what this test would prove! 
To test the car you built against the 911, do a normal roll on in 3rd or so and go thru like 5th gear........done! or do a 1/4 mile.......or even a full mile race. but this 5 min thing that neither car can hold flat out on mainly straight roads doesn't show anything at all. how about do:
race 1. 1/4 mile
race 2. rolling mile
race 3. road course 
just a thought here, but if your TT won those or any of those.........you did pretty damn well and probably killed no one or no car. i'm sorry, but throw that weird other idea out the window


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (giacTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *giacTT* »_All from 5th gear the Gallardo was not a problem at all...neither was the m3....the porsche is an 11 second car off the showroom floor....I assume you know this fact already. However, i have more hp than you are hoping to have and he still pulled a few cars on me. 

No you don't, he got 400+whp and his car is a lot lighter than yours...he would destroy you...and i bet my money on his car vs porche up to 240km/h


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

just got quoted for CF doors skins - not the bracket 
door weight (each weighing 40kg - 80kg in total for both)
interior door panels (each weighing 5kg..10kg in total for both) 
current weight is 1170kg
if I replace CF for door skin (10kg each) and door interior (2kg)..total of 68kg further reduction..
new weight can be potentially 1108kg
Power to weight ratio: 433bhp/ton
versus 911S
Power to weight ratio: 303bhp/ton
seems a short sprint format will be more favourable



_Modified by robingohtt at 2:03 AM 4-7-2009_


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

guys, I have to design a challenge and pick a car..a good one..thanks for the input..great advice..yes, the sponsor does not condone unsafe road racing..hence, the roads are completely closed
first idea that came to sponsor is a rolling start race that gets from point A to point B. every person not a serious car guy can identify with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated
but that is boring and trite..and shoots bad on film
a track challenge sounds good but unless we get the front suspension converted to double wishbone and rear to multi-link, this tt is going to get creamed due to the FFWD layout personally, I like the video of APRs audi tt versus the R8 in youtube.com...both quattro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZXMzEWU72g
the biggest issue is not getting a long stretch of road and to close it for safety... it's actually:
Insurance - it has to cover both cars for the event, setup and public road (or track) damage should anything occur. Once the event is designed and confirmed, the insurance guys will come in to access the risk and quote.
suspension setup - that is more difficult that you think..it's really a skill hard to find..and I dont mean mere PSS9s, Ohlins, camber kit, ARBs..double wishbone suspension design is not easy and really a rare skill. Multi-link conversion also needs computer equipment to get it right, I was told.
Camera equipment, scripts, and what it can cover - I mean camera rigs, lighting, camera equipment. Post production editing is easy.
new gearing design - need the right ratios for top speed and track duty..I get what some of you mean when suggesting swapping the final gear












_Modified by robingohtt at 8:49 AM 4-7-2009_


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## giacTT (May 16, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*



mescaline said:


> No you don't, he got 400+whp and his car is a lot lighter than yours...he would destroy you...and i bet my money on his car vs porche up to 240km/h[/QUOTE
> Mind you My car has these mods and is on the road.
> 
> 
> ...


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (giacTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *giacTT* »_


mescaline said:


> No you don't, he got 400+whp and his car is a lot lighter than yours...he would destroy you...and i bet my money on his car vs porche up to 240km/h[/QUOTE
> Mind you My car has these mods and is on the road.
> 
> 
> ...






mescaline said:


> Yes, you got 365AWHP and he got 400+ fwhp, i say he would destroy you...because he is lighter (almost 400kg lighter). You would need a lot more power than him to compete, way over 400whp. High 11 second car? did you actually RUN these numbers?
> And about people that say they want to do something adn people that do...well, dropping a car off to 1552v2 and picking it up a few days later is a lot of DOING. Pick a group of people where you want to be
> 
> 
> ...


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## audiguy01 (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: (robingohtt)*



I like the video of APRs audi tt versus the R8 in youtube.com...both quattro
[URL said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZXMzEWU72g[/URL]
> Insurance - it has to cover both cars for the event, setup and public road (or track) damage should anything occur. Once the event is designed and confirmed, the insurance guys will come in to access the risk and quote.


A race such as the TT vs the R8 would work well as it would keep the 911 from reaching high speeds which will be essential in order to win. This type of race would also help keep insurance costs down compared to a race held above 150mph.
A multi-race platform including tight course described above and a half or one mile drag race would film well and keep the racing tight.
What the fwd TT gives up in quattro grip it will more than make up for in lower weight as far as a TT goes. There is just no way you are going to match the Porsche above 150mph; I have been in both at these speeds and the Porsche has lots of throttle left where my personal modified TT is battling drag. 
Your TT will be much lighter than mine with more bhp, keep in mind though that my TT is in 5th by 110 mph and 6th does not pull very strong. If you decide to go with a high speed race, gearing on the TT will need to be addressed. I am running about 300-310whp and only do around 122mph in a half mile where the Porsche you are talking about does about 135mph in a half mile. I would expect your car to match the 911's speed in the half though it will fall behind beyond this distance.
Any time line on when this race might take place?


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## giacTT (May 16, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*

No actually i ran 12.80's @ 117 mph with a horrible 2.3 60 ft.... so again like i said a LOW 12 HIGH 11 second car







And before you get to witty and cocky.....I dropped my TT off with Shawn and Brad @ 1552v2 becuase i am new to German turbo cars i was busy installing the AFR heads on my camaro BELOW which i built from the ground up







625rwhp 602 rwt @ 9 1/2 psi...........And wernt you the same guy who made a post back in January about retarding your timing to pass emmisions becuase your car was to fast??


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (giacTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *giacTT* »_No actually i ran 12.80's @ 117 mph with a horrible 2.3 60 ft.... so again like i said a LOW 12 HIGH 11 second car







And before you get to witty and cocky.....I dropped my TT off with Shawn and Brad @ 1552v2 becuase i am new to German turbo cars i was busy installing the AFR heads on my camaro BELOW which i built from the ground up







625rwhp 602 rwt @ 9 1/2 psi...........And wernt you the same guy who made a post back in January about retarding your timing to pass emmisions becuase your car was to fast??










Yes and I ended up doing something else to pass emissions







What's the point here? We have insanely strict emission rules.
When you run high 11s it will be high 11s car. Obviously you can't drive...2.3 60ft in an AWD car...now that's retarded.
Who cares about Camaros? I sure don't.


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## bwell01 (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (mescaline)*

alright guys... before we stray too far off topic lets discuss what we all believe to be the true.
1. tt will out accelerate porsche up to about 150mph 
2. porsche wiill continue to pull after 150 and on to its top speed of ??
3. in order for the tt to match the porsches top end gearing will need to be addressed
it seems that i may be changing my decision. the tt just might be able to take this one if this race is held on anything but a straight and perfect road the tt just might be able use its power to weight advantage to stay in front. every time they have to lift or brake the tt should be able to pull when the power goes back down then the porsche will have to retake him all over again. 
im beginning to think its possible, especially if the tt pulls enough distance before they reach the speed of the porsches strong points.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

*Re: (bwell01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwell01* »_a
1. tt will out accelerate porsche up to about 150mph 
2. porsche wiill continue to pull after 150 and on to its top speed of ??
3. in order for the tt to match the porsches top end gearing will need to be addressed

I don't know which 6-speed gearbox he has but ...take a look at DRW box from diesel PD150
















You can calculate top speed here: http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/tyres.html


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## giacTT (May 16, 2007)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_
Yes and I ended up doing something else to pass emissions







What's the point here? We have insanely strict emission rules.
When you run high 11s it will be high 11s car. Obviously you can't drive...2.3 60ft in an AWD car...now that's retarded.
Who cares about Camaros? I sure don't.

Your right....how american of me







No one cares about 9 second american cars on this board







Maybe i should have shown a volvo....now theres a fine piece of swedish engineering







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

volvo sucks, i still have no idea why half of freakin USA praises that car so much


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (mescaline)*

I got a comment from a good friend.
Nissan spent millions on the GTR to beat the 911 turbo...
and we're going to do what?








seriously, the big poser for the challenge is this:
can a custom built car beat a 911 S (one of the best production cars on the world) with:
aerodynamics
weight reduction
proper suspension setup
proper gearing setup
turbo and tuning



_Modified by robingohtt at 7:50 AM 4-13-2009_


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## audiguy01 (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

Here is an example of track times on when top speed is taken out of the equation.
Why did you not start with a 3.2L quattro and add a turbo kit? This would have been a 550+ whp car that would have crushed the 911 with a hardened dsg or manual conversion.
Top Gear track times list
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9 
Porsche 911 Turbo 1.31.0 
New Audi TT 1.31.4 
Audi TT V6 1.32.7 (I think this was the mk1)


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (audiguy01)*

if both cars are around 3 litre and audi tt strap a big turbo (like HPA twin turbo), the answer is a foregone conclusion..then I would need to arrange for a V12 like lambo
budget contraints too.


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## audiguy01 (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

Got it!


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

what would V6 engine change here? Nothing, it would add more weight, that's all. OP can easily swap in bigger turbo and gain more power but i don't think it's needed. Nissan spent millions building GTR that can beat 911 but that's totally different race.


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

true..that fact we know clearly..
then it wont be david vs Goliath story angle with a V6..
or with a V6..we need to go against a V12..
the main point is controversy..the client/sponsor themselves are controversial..even their own product is - it's not Coke, IBM or Citibank..blue chip..it's a wild brand..that likes to do promotional marketing activities which are pretty extreme..
hence the thing is : can carefully planning and design overcome an obstacle..using a small budget (vs Nissan's mega-million dollar R&D budget)
the polls here and the opinions here already show people who think it's nuts, no way...and some others say "yay, I see it"
I think you get the drift
there isnt much fun to see a V6 and a V6 compete (with diff turbos)

mescaline...beautiful calculator for top speed, mate http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif mega thanks



_Modified by robingohtt at 4:14 AM 4-14-2009_


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## audiguy01 (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

My favorite Audi TT.
Top Gear review of the MTM BIMOTO Audi TT


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## robingohtt (Nov 6, 2005)

u should know that the bimoto is hard to steer and heck is notoriously unreliable.
my favourite too, after the HPA twin monster with the mega understeer inducing GT wing








I wonder if Stig drove it sround their testing track and how did it fare?


_Modified by robingohtt at 12:19 PM 4-14-2009_


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## audiguy01 (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: (robingohtt)*

Did this race ever happen?


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