# For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL...



## wolfier (Mar 2, 2002)

It is just plain stupid of VW engineers / lawyers, I think, that the DRL is as bright as if you turned it on.
Would you do it if the DRL were only at half-brightness?


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

Dunno about your car, but on mine (Mk3 GTI) the DRLs are *not* just as bright.
They run about 80% as bright. In the DRL circuit is the infamous "long wire"
which runs under the driver side door sill and acts as a resistor to decrease
the amount of current going to the headlights in DRL mode. That's why 
if you install jumpers to turn on lows and highs at the same time, but don't
disable the DRL circuit, you can burn it out if you accidentally leave
the highs on in DRL mode. Personally, I installed a switch so I can
run DRLs if I want (particularly when I'm going very fast on twisty
roads and *want* to be seen). Otherwise my DRLs are always off because
I'd rather not draw attention to myself.
ian


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## wolfier (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Daemon42)*

Interesting. Is there a way to decrease the power to the DRL without disabling it or affecting the normal lights?
Although VW says DRL is less bright than the usual headlight, on my car they look EXACTLY the same to me.


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

It is different. It's just that 80% doesn't look much different. If you park in front of a 
white wall, and flick the lights on and off you'll see a slight change in intensity. 
As for how to adjust it yourself. You could track down the DRL circuit
and put a nice high current voltage regulator there. If you did that, you'd also
want to remove that silly long wire thing under the door sill. It's just a big
long resistor that disippates the excesss current as heat. 
ian


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## bugged (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Daemon42)*

It is different. A 20% wattage drop is equal to a 2.5-3x greater bulb life. Put a big resistor inline.


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## FiveFreshFish (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

I had to disable the DRLs on my S4 because I swapped the OEM halogens with HID E-codes. The city lights act as my DRLs now, but legally they don't meet requirements because (i) they're too dim and (ii) I have to manually switch them on.
The original OEM DRLs were about 80% the intensity of the normal low beams. My city lights are probably about 10% of the OEM DRLs... a bit too dim but better than nothing.


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## Bora20 (Feb 13, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (FiveFreshFish)*

To make your car legal again, get the foglights for the S4 bumper, and make them the DRLs.
The rest of the Audi lineup with HID lights are just like this. It should only take a wire change from the TFL pin to change this.


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## Sawdust (May 28, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Bora20)*

well i first strated by turing my turn signals into my DRL's i have a 2000 golf. it worked great, looked good and saved my bulbs. but i have since installed OEM HID'S and what i have done in installed the fogs into the lower bumber and i am running my fogs as my DRL. works good and saves the xenons


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## FiveFreshFish (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Bora20)*

quote:[HR][/HR]To make your car legal again, get the foglights for the S4 bumper, and make them the DRLs.
The rest of the Audi lineup with HID lights are just like this. It should only take a wire change from the TFL pin to change this.[HR][/HR]​I thought about doing that but the OEM fogs won't fit the Canadian S4 bumper without modification and I would have to buy US intercooler grills. If I have to modify anything, I might as well get the Hella Micro DE Xenon and mount them in my lower center grill.


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## Deception (Oct 5, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

Even if the DRLs were at 50% intensity I still would disable them.


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## wolfier (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Deception)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Even if the DRLs were at 50% intensity I still would disable them. [HR][/HR]​How about 20?







Or just as bright as the city lights?
I absolutely want a city light switch. I mean, even CR-V has it...


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## vdubVR6-Munich (Aug 14, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

Someone posted a while ago, that if you apply electrical tape, over the TFL pin, and then reconnected, that should take out the DRL's. Has anyone ever tried this?? 
Dan....FAR4NGN


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## bugged (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (vdubVR6-Munich)*

Save the HID? They have order of magnitude better lifespans than halogens. They'll outlast the car.


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## bora_analogue (Sep 5, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (vdubVR6-Munich)*

Actually I've done this to my switch (it IS the Euro switch, but it should work on the American switch, and the Brasilian one) and it works great. 
BTW interesting quirk is that with the Euro switch, if you have your DRL's enabled, if you turn on the parking lights, the DRL's turn off. But otherwise they're on.
Hi, I'm Mauricio BTW. I'm new here, just registered.
Mauricio


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## Jetta2K76 (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

Try placing a varistor after the 174 (?) relay to the lights. Dimming DRLs!!! Or to be fancy, use your dash dimmer switch (probably won't handle the high current though).
Hey, it's an idea...even if it is silly.








Teague


[Modified by Jetta2K76, 3:11 PM 9-9-2002]


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Jetta2K76)*

what is a TFL switch???
How can you disable the DTRL on an A2?


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

TFL is the German abbreviation for DRL (Daytime Running Light)
TFL=TagesFunktionierendes Licht (Daytime Operating Light as translated by Altavista)


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Clean97GTi)*

Great that's good to know.
But.... Nobody will explain how I can disable them on my A2.
Help


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Great that's good to know.
But.... Nobody will explain how I can disable them on my A2.
Help







[HR][/HR]​I'll take a stab at it but it's all pure guesses, so YMMV, but in absence of any instructions this is what I'd try.
You'll probably need to pull the DRL relay. I checked the Bentley and it doesn't even show one for the Jetta's relay panel, but for the Golf and GTI panel of the same vintage it's somewhat similar and it shows it, but seeing as they're not 100% the same I wouldn't go by what's listed for the Golf and GTI. I assume that your DRLs are turned on/off when you release the parking brake, so with the ignition on (but car not running), release the parking brake and feel for the relay that clicks when you release the brake. When you find that relay, pull it (sometimes takes some good tugging...these relays are pretty tight sometimes).
After you pull the relay, see what works/doesn't work. Those who have A3s I believe have reported that just yanking the relay causes the brake warning indicator to not operate correctly. However on my 2000 Eurovan (which shares a lot of switchgear with the A3s), pulling the DRL relay caused everything to work just fine (lights, brake indicator, etc.).
You may or may not need the US or Euro switch. I haven't seen the headlamp switch of a DRL-equipped A2 so I couldn't tell you for sure if it's any different. Part number of the US switch for my '91 GTI is 191-941-531-N.
If none of that works, maybe try putting everything back together again and then maybe just pull the wire for the DRLs out of the headlamp switch harness plug?
-Matt


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (gti_matt)*

Hey thanks for the advice Matt.
I wish my Jetta's DTRL would turn off with a click of the ebrake, like most other cars of its class and vintage. But NO, there is *NO* way to turn them off without yanking wires or pulling relays. I was hoping for a secret switch or something somewhere, but haven't found it yet. O well, looks like i'll be yanking the wires out, I don't care how much life I get out of my bulbs, those DTRL have gotta go.
Thanks,
Max http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

I prefer DRL's...but whatever floats your boat.
edit:
here's an interesting thought....if you were involved in a head-on collision with another car, AND you've disabled the DRL's, would you be more liable for the accident?
Anyone want to comment on this hypothetical question?


[Modified by converted_vw, 9:11 AM 12-2-2002]


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (converted_vw)*

I prefer freedom of choice to either turn them on or off, a light that you cant turn of is just ludicris


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## HIDGolf (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

http://www.hella-press.de/search_detail.php?text_id=197&language=e&newdir=eng 
DRLs are now required in Germany.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I prefer freedom of choice to either turn them on or off, a light that you cant turn of is just ludicris







[HR][/HR]​You might want a Camry or Solara. They have a DRL switch on the headlight switch


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (converted_vw)*

Camry or Solara?? Hell even a Geo Metro has a DTRL kill switch built into the ebrake. Damn this fully loaded GTX.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

So does my Golf....the rear pads are soft enough already. Every car with DRl's have a DRL kill switch with the e-brake.
The Camry and Solara have a actual switch position that allows the option to turn off the DRL's.


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (converted_vw)*

Hmmm, perhaps somebody can confirm whether this DTRL switch in the ebrake was just an American thang, Golf thang, year/model thang, or what. Cuz, my 90' jetta gtx does not have that. If it did I would have my ebrake up a notch all the time.








Oh and yeah ur I don't deny your Golf has that feature, afterall my old man's beetle (2000 TDI Motorsports Edition) has that ebrake switch too.
I really would ike to know if there's some kinda kill switch for my model Jetta, I haven't seen one yet.
Please enlighten


[Modified by maxxam, 8:25 AM 12-2-2002]


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

I think Rapid Parts has the Euroswitch and instructions on how to disable the DRL's


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

Late model 3-series Bimmers have DRLs that the dealer can program to be off or on.


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## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (gti_matt)*

i programmed mine off with some tape.


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (turbovw18)*

Can you explain exactly what you did please. That might help.
Thanks,
Max


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

turbovw18 did the tape method on the TFL pin.


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## MB300E87 (Jan 10, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

i like having full control over my lights. i don't want them on unless i turned them on.
in fact it even bothers me that i can't have the parking lights on one side of the car on like MB's and Porsches and european spec VWs. i'd also like only my highbeams to come on when i flip the stalk instead of both high and low beams at the same time.
it'd be crazy to have control over every single exterior lights. "yes i'd like only my right city light on right now.. and thats it!" jkjk


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## YKK (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (MB300E87)*

DRL are good if you live in CANADA..... But in L.A it just stupid, wasting light buld....


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (YKK)*

Really... why good Canada but no good LA


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (MB300E87)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i like having full control over my lights. i don't want them on unless i turned them on.
in fact it even bothers me that i can't have the parking lights on one side of the car on like MB's and Porsches and european spec VWs. i'd also like only my highbeams to come on when i flip the stalk instead of both high and low beams at the same time.
it'd be crazy to have control over every single exterior lights. "yes i'd like only my right city light on right now.. and thats it!" jkjk[HR][/HR]​You can wire it up to do that.


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## KeithVH (Mar 25, 1999)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (MB300E87)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i like having full control over my lights. i don't want them on unless i turned them on.
in fact it even bothers me that i can't have the parking lights on one side of the car on like MB's and Porsches and european spec VWs. [HR][/HR]​
Hmmm.....I could SWEAR that someone here has done this..







But it was a long time ago IIRC....I may have bookmarked it. If I find it I'll post.


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## funky gti (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (KeithVH)*

On my first car, a 94 ProbeGT the DTRL's were the foglamps mounted in the chin spoiler. They were activated when the e-brake was disengaged. The Probe had flip-up headlamps and when headlamps were turned on a "kill-switch" was available to turn the fogs off but this would not work unless the headlamps were on.


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## Tuba_Transport (Jul 4, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

It is a safety feature just like ABS and SRS. People who disable the DRLs are doing it as either a fashion statement or due to a power kick. Leave them on. They really do serve a huge function for the other drivers. There have been many occasions where I was better able to avoid an accident because other drivers were better able to see me.


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## SilberBora02 (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Tuba_Transport)*

i have manually operated DRL's... i took the relay right out of the dash after i put the euro switch in. the only problem i have is that my "Brake" light doesnt come on on the heads-up display anymore when i apply the ebrake. Oh well.. i drive with my parking lights on most of the time anyways


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (SilberBora02)*









The jumper on the left will reenable proper functioning of your hand brake indicator
light, and the two wires on the right are headed off to a switch on the dash to turn 
the DRLs on or off at will. That's all you need.
ian


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## vwdan2 (Oct 26, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (vdubVR6-Munich)*


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## vwdan2 (Oct 26, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (vdubVR6-Munich)*

Yes I,ve done this on my 337 when I installed the euro switch works great. Use two pieces of tape though I had trouble with one slipping off the pin. Cut the tape a little longer than the pin is so the tape will stick to switch itself on the top and bottom of the pin. That should take care of it.







quote:[HR][/HR]Someone posted a while ago, that if you apply electrical tape, over the TFL pin, and then reconnected, that should take out the DRL's. Has anyone ever tried this?? 
Dan....FAR4NGN[HR][/HR]​


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## VWParts (Sep 22, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (vwdan2)*

http://www.vwmkiv.com/drl.htm
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## quam (Nov 25, 2000)

What's the advantage of having the euroswitch or 'brazilswitch' on the '03 Jetta GL, which has no fogs?

[Modified by quam, 9:01 AM 12-27-2002]


[Modified by quam, 9:02 AM 12-27-2002]


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## yamakasi (Oct 4, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

On my car DRLs most definitely are dimmer!
See ya.........


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Tuba_Transport)*

quote:[HR][/HR]It is a safety feature just like ABS and SRS. People who disable the DRLs are doing it as either a fashion statement or due to a power kick. Leave them on. They really do serve a huge function for the other drivers. There have been many occasions where I was better able to avoid an accident because other drivers were better able to see me.[HR][/HR]​B---S---. 
DRL's are a safety feature? Then perhaps you could point to a study that shows a safety benefit to cars with DRL's at latitudes comparable to Georgia, Florida (or southern California where another skeptic from this thread lives). The only studies that have shown any benefits to DRL's have been done in places like Sweden and Finland and combine winter and summer data. In the winter in Finland, it's dark!!!! Even during the day!!!! Data from those latitudes doesn't apply in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Arizona or southern California. It really doesn't compare with Massachusetts or Maine, either, though the New England states are closer in latitude to the test locations than most of the U.S. 
Personally, I've witnessed 2 car vs. motorcycle collisions that probably wouldn't have happened if the car behind the motorcylce had didn't have DRL's. In one accident, the unfortunate motorcyclist happened to be in line with the highbeam DRL's of the Saturn that was about 150 yards behind him. A driver pulling out of a driveway didn't see him because his motorcycle's headlight was pretty much in line with the Saturn's left high beam from his vantage point in his driveway. He pulled out thinking the nearest vehicle was the Saturn 150 yards away and was hit almost instantly by the Motorcycle he didn't see. Thankfully, the motorcyclist's injuries weren't life threatening. 
Sorry to go way off topic here, but ABS is a performance feature, not a safety feature. There's no study to date that shows any significant safety benefit to ABS. Many of the early studies showed that ABS equipped vehicles were involved in slightly *more fatal accidents*, not less.


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## TurboniumHillfolk (Dec 15, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (vdubVR6-Munich)*

works great on her late 99 jetta!!! do it,,,,,


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## Bora20 (Feb 13, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (YKK)*

quote:[HR][/HR]DRL are good if you live in CANADA..... But in L.A it just stupid, wasting light buld....[HR][/HR]​they keep old people from hitting you and idiots that don't turn on their lights at night from forgetting to turn them on


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Bora20)*

quote:[HR][/HR]DRL are good if you live in CANADA..... But in L.A it just stupid, wasting light buld....
they keep old people from hitting you and idiots that don't turn on their lights at night from forgetting to turn them on







[HR][/HR]​Actually, I've seen more idiots driving with their DRL's only at night, and *NO TAIL LIGHTS*.
I've also never seen a study that says there's any safety benefit to DRL's in latitudes comparable to the southern United States. DRL's are just a marketing ploy and a way to sell more replacement bulbs as far as I can tell. And I've seen 2 different accidents where I believe that DRL's were a major contributing cause of the accident. No thanks.


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## Bora20 (Feb 13, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Racer_X)*

quote:[HR][/HR] DRL are good if you live in CANADA..... But in L.A it just stupid, wasting light buld....
they keep old people from hitting you and idiots that don't turn on their lights at night from forgetting to turn them on








Actually, I've seen more idiots driving with their DRL's only at night, and *NO TAIL LIGHTS*.
I've also never seen a study that says there's any safety benefit to DRL's in latitudes comparable to the southern United States. DRL's are just a marketing ploy and a way to sell more replacement bulbs as far as I can tell. And I've seen 2 different accidents where I believe that DRL's were a major contributing cause of the accident. No thanks.[HR][/HR]​Nice bold, damn. Actually they are safer. Ask any lawyers office about the amount of deaths/accidents due to cars not driving with their light on vs. off.
And I do agree with you on the DRLs no taillights thing though. However, atleast when they are driving towards me, I can see them.
I have never had a bulb burn out due to DRLs being on. that is absurd, selling more bulbs because they are on all the time. My halogen bulbs always last over a year


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Racer_X)*

quote:[HR][/HR]And I've seen 2 different accidents where I believe that DRL's were a major contributing cause of the accident. No thanks.[HR][/HR]​I read your other post about the motorcycle accident but that really isn't the fault of drl's, do you really think that?
I mean, bikers have a disadvantage in the first place. You accept that added risk everytime you get on a bike. 
As far as the drls being on and people forgetting to turn their lights on at night...that is a problem and I agree with you. But at least I have headlights on and if I come up on that person I (hopefully) will see them with my headlights...
Anyway, 
I don't care one way or the other. I have to say that the saturns and the 5 series bimmers that have the drls in the high beams are just outrageous!!!
I always turn my lights on no matter what but I can't vouch for the retards out there that don't know what freakin' planet they are on...
Later,


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (KeithVH)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i like having full control over my lights. i don't want them on unless i turned them on.
in fact it even bothers me that i can't have the parking lights on one side of the car on like MB's and Porsches and european spec VWs. 

Hmmm.....I could SWEAR that someone here has done this..







But it was a long time ago IIRC....I may have bookmarked it. If I find it I'll post.







[HR][/HR]​
There's a thead on TDIclub.com that shows how to do it.
Right now I can't get my top cover off of the steering column to make the connection.,


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## Tuba_Transport (Jul 4, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Racer_X)*

quote:[HR][/HR]It is a safety feature just like ABS and SRS. People who disable the DRLs are doing it as either a fashion statement or due to a power kick. Leave them on. They really do serve a huge function for the other drivers. There have been many occasions where I was better able to avoid an accident because other drivers were better able to see me.
B---S---. 
DRL's are a safety feature? Then perhaps you could point to a study that shows a safety benefit to cars with DRL's at latitudes comparable to Georgia, Florida (or southern California where another skeptic from this thread lives). The only studies that have shown any benefits to DRL's have been done in places like Sweden and Finland and combine winter and summer data. In the winter in Finland, it's dark!!!! Even during the day!!!! Data from those latitudes doesn't apply in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Arizona or southern California. It really doesn't compare with Massachusetts or Maine, either, though the New England states are closer in latitude to the test locations than most of the U.S. 
[HR][/HR]​What does latitude have to do with being more visible in broad daylight? Sounds like some of the same arguments used by the NRA.
quote:[HR][/HR]
Personally, I've witnessed 2 car vs. motorcycle collisions that probably wouldn't have happened if the car behind the motorcylce had didn't have DRL's. In one accident, the unfortunate motorcyclist happened to be in line with the highbeam DRL's of the Saturn that was about 150 yards behind him. A driver pulling out of a driveway didn't see him because his motorcycle's headlight was pretty much in line with the Saturn's left high beam from his vantage point in his driveway. He pulled out thinking the nearest vehicle was the Saturn 150 yards away and was hit almost instantly by the Motorcycle he didn't see. Thankfully, the motorcyclist's injuries weren't life threatening. 
[HR][/HR]​Huh? Did I miss something here. You're trying to convince me that DRLs kill? Yaa








quote:[HR][/HR]
Sorry to go way off topic here, but ABS is a performance feature, not a safety feature. There's no study to date that shows any significant safety benefit to ABS. Many of the early studies showed that ABS equipped vehicles were involved in slightly *more fatal accidents*, not less.[HR][/HR]​Point me to those studies. I would be interested in reading who conducted them and how. ABS is not a performance feature. It is strictly a safety feature. A highly skilled driver who knows what he is doing can actually brake in shorter distances without ABS than with. The ABS would be a limiting feature for performance. It is beneficial for the masses as a safety feature because the masses aren't trained well enough in evasive manuevers to brake/power out of a tricky situation. 
Same reason why most cars understeer when pushed hard instead of going neutral. Understeer warns the driver to back off or when pushed even further, the average driver feels safer in an understeering car than a neutral or oversteering car.
Not sure what you are basing your beliefs on. The only tangible downsides I have seen to DRLs is the increase in gasolene consumption by mandating them. The extra electricity they draw does have a small affect on overall gasolene consumption and when multplied by every automobile which would be mandated to use them, the barrels of oil add up pretty fast. Of course this is moot compared to the SUV craze we are all sufferring from and wil suffer from for the next few decades as today's gas guzzling emission spewing double wides slowly die off. Even if they stopped producing them today, we have enough in circulaton to continue to destroy our environment for a long long long time. The are ecological disasters on wheels today and will only get worse as the older/used ones fall into varying states of decay over time.


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Tuba_Transport)*

Before addressing your questions, I'm going to point out that you ignored my previous questions, so I'll repeat this request:
*Then perhaps you could point to a study that shows a safety benefit to cars with DRL's at latitudes comparable to Georgia, Florida (or southern California where another skeptic from this thread lives). * A study by a government safety agency would be best. I don't necessarily trust "studies" made by organizations selling or trying to sell DRL's as those "studies" might be influenced by other business related biases.
Now, to get to your questions.
quote:[HR][/HR]What does latitude have to do with being more visible in broad daylight? Sounds like some of the same arguments used by the NRA.[HR][/HR]​In more northern latitudes, "broad daylight," as you call it, isn't as bright as it is in more southern latitudes. Especially in the winter. In Norway or Sweden or even northern Quebec at this time of year, it's almost like twilight at noon. As we get closer to spring time, there's still not as much background light from "daylight" in the northern latitudes as there is in Georgia or Florida. 
Therefore, there's more benefit and more contrast when you run your headlights or DRL's in the extreme northern latitudes. In the south, parking light DRL's or reduced brightness low beams or dedicated DRLs with less than full low beam intensity don't provide as much benefit as they do in the north. 
quote:[HR][/HR]Huh? Did I miss something here. You're trying to convince me that DRLs kill? Yaa







[HR][/HR]​Actually, I'm pretty sure that if a comprehensive study were done of the accident history and experiences of vehicles with DRL's, and a comparison was made to vehicles without DRL's, it's likely that DRL equipped vehicles are involved less in certain types of accidents (like people pulling out in front of them in "broad daylight") and more likely to be involved in other types of accidents (like being hit from behind in the rain because they don't have their tail lights on). I have no idea whether the increased risks in situations where DRL's are a negative would be greater than the increased safety where DRL's are a positive feature. 
Like I said, I'd really like to see a study of the overall accident rates for DRL equipped vehicles compared with vehicles that lack DRL's. Unfortunately, the only studies that I've seen of this have been done in scandanavian countries and merge winter time data (when it's dark or twilight most of the time) with summertime data (when it's lighter outside and DRL's might have less benefits and more negatives). 
Anecdotal experience indicates to me that DRL's are a contributing factor in some accidents. The question is do they prevent more accidents than they contribute to?
As for the ABS questions, IM me if you want, and maybe I'll start a thread in the "Brakes" forum where it's more on topic.


----------



## chicago (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (vdubVR6-Munich)*

Yep, had it done about a year ago...never a problem...
quote:[HR][/HR]Someone posted a while ago, that if you apply electrical tape, over the TFL pin, and then reconnected, that should take out the DRL's. Has anyone ever tried this?? 
Dan....FAR4NGN[HR][/HR]​


----------



## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (bugged)*

Come on guys, why are you getting off topic. DRLs are here to stay and they were NOT designed by bulb manufacturers, with Audis and 4 years complete waranty, they're the ones to pay for the dead bulbs anyways! 
I think it's a safety feature that helps, but definately more in places with less sun. 
Now, the main topic here was to get DRLs dimmer and I AGREE that they must be dimmer. I had a Honda and the DRLs were like 50% light of low beams. So, WHO knows how to get the DRLs dimmer with or without Euro switch. I'm not gonna disable them since they MAY save mine or someone's life.


----------



## jackGTI337 (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

Got my Euroswitch from Senna and I have not disabled DRL.
Why bother. All have to do is turn on the city lights or just the fogs.


----------



## grizzlyone (Nov 9, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Racer_X)*

Racer X I agree completely. So the fact that unless another car has some sort of light on to draw the attention of other drivers, besides the fact that a 3000lb+ hunk of multi colored steel is coming at you, people won't see it. The only reason DRL'sdraw your attention more now is that it is still fairly new and alot of cars don't have them, so it is something different. If all cars had them people would tune them out as they do now with non DRL cars.
And on the motorcycle topic, most bikes' headlight is on all the time to draw attention to the bike from other drivers. The more cars that have DRL the less people will pay attention to vehicles with lights. As any rider will tell you , they need all the help they can get out there now for people to notice them.
Sorry, rant over


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (grizzlyone)*

I really don't understand the argument about the bike and the drls causing an accident.
What really caused that accident was a driver that wasn't paying attention. It happens all of the time. If I have my eyes on the road and am concentrating on actually driving then I see everything on the road.
I mean, if you need drls or headlights to help you see during the day that's a problem of lack of concentration. And if someone really thinks that a car with drl's on behind a bike made the bike appear to be invisible then the person obviously was not paying appropriate attention.
When it comes down to it we are trying to make up for peoples' inability to pay attention to driving (ie. cellphones, foolin' with stereo, animated discussions with passenger, site-seeing, etc...).
Later,


----------



## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (nater)*

I agree, DRLs are an attempt to compensate for the fact that most, or at least a lot of people are incredibly inattentive on the road. They simply *don't* pay attention, don't see everything, don't drive as though their life and the lives of others depends on them doing it with some actual level of skill. 
Also, if you don't believe that motorcycle headlights are becoming lost in a sea of car DRLs, notice what some motorcycles are now using to stay visible. They're using headlight flashers. I find them very annoying, but at least they're noticeably different from DRLs. 
ian


----------



## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (converted_vw)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I prefer DRL's...but whatever floats your boat.
edit:
here's an interesting thought....if you were involved in a head-on collision with another car, AND you've disabled the DRL's, would you be more liable for the accident?
Anyone want to comment on this hypothetical question?

[Modified by converted_vw, 9:11 AM 12-2-2002][HR][/HR]​Since there is no law requiring DRLs in the USA, I don't see how they could hold you more responsible. The only thing I could think of is if you get an insurance discount for having them, then t might hurt if you disable them. Turning them back on isn't hard though. All I have to do is reconnect that little yellow connector.
-edit- Instead of trying to recall studies that may or may not exist. I would like to direct you here. This is the main reason I disabled my DRLs...that and my GTI should not look like a Lumina.










[Modified by Clean97GTi, 4:47 AM 1-20-2003]


----------



## VWParts (Sep 22, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Clean97GTi)*

Lately I have seen many MKIV at night with only one headlight working. Makes me wonder why ... stupid DRL shortens life of the bulb !


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Clean97GTi)*

Mine stays because I frequently drive in wooded areas (curvy also), where leaves darkens the conditions a bit.


----------



## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (converted_vw)*

regardless of all that's been said, I still want to be able to control turning them on or off, like everyother option on the car. I don't care how many accidents are avoided... blah, blah, blah, stats show, blah , blah, blah. Instructions on how do disable them in an AII would be ideal.


----------



## Jason4 (Sep 15, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

What difference does it make if a study shows that DRL's make a noticeable difference at higher lattitudes and hardly any difference at lower ones? Do you want the car companies to make different wiring harnesses for cars going to different states? Do you realize how much more confusing the wiring diagrams in a Bentley manual would be? Just imagine: 1997-1999, Jetta or Golf, not GTI or Cabrio from Texas and Arkansas, Pg 103b; from California and Arizona, Pg 104a; From Washington, Wyoming and parts of North and South Dakota, Pg 106d; from Georgia, headlights have been omitted to increase natural selection and "survival of the fittest" ie. removal from the gene pool.
Anyone who has tried to pass on a two lane mountain road in the woods knows how nice it is to be able to spot oncoming traffic by their headlights. Especially in the rain. And it makes an even bigger difference on forest green, brown, and black cars.
And to stay on topic, try putting a resistor in line with "the long wire" to reduce the voltage to the bulb.
Jason


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Jason4)*

Hmmm, that's interesting. How much resistance would it take to dumb it down from 80% intensity to 50% or 40%?


----------



## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Jason4)*

quote:[HR][/HR]What difference does it make if a study shows that DRL's make a noticeable difference at higher lattitudes and hardly any difference at lower ones? [HR][/HR]​It makes a difference if they kill more people than they save at lower latitudes. 
quote:[HR][/HR]Do you want the car companies to make different wiring harnesses for cars going to different states? [HR][/HR]​It might only be a Canada harness for the lights (with DRL's) and a U.S. harness for the lights (without DRL's). Alaska and some northern states might be allowed to have the Canadian harness for the DRL's. If the design is done right, it's simply a matter of leaving one wire out of a harness connector or one pin off of a relay. This isn't a really big problem for the manufacturers, no matter what they say.
BTW, there's already differences between California and the other 49 states due to difference in emissions laws.
quote:[HR][/HR]
<Misinformed and insulting rant snipped>
Anyone who has tried to pass on a two lane mountain road in the woods knows how nice it is to be able to spot oncoming traffic by their headlights. Especially in the rain. [HR][/HR]​Thats why (almost) every state in the United States *requires drivers to turn on their headlights when it's raining*. 
Also, I've almost hit people in the rain because their gray car with DRL's and no tail lights was hidden quite effectively in the road spray behind a tractor trailer. I'm not saying these idiots would have had their lights on if their car didn't have DRL's. What I am saying is that idiots will find a way to get into accidents no matter how much you try to save them with "automatic" help.



[Modified by Racer_X, 2:15 PM 1-22-2003]


----------



## Jason4 (Sep 15, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Racer_X)*

I'd like to see the study that showed that drl's kill people. In bright sunlight they are hardly noticeable (unless they are of the sort that are highbeams and then they are distracting) and in low light or against a dark backgroung they add contrast to a car to distinguish it and make it noticable. Even when it's not raining it's nice to see cars coming when you are passing. And I usually drive with my headlights on.
I suppose that truck headlights should also be more closely regulated since they make the vehicle appear further away due to them being higher off the ground. And the taillights of the Focus and Volvo wagons are inherently unsafe too since they are so high off the ground and give the same impression of distance as truck headlights. 
Maybe red and yellow cars should be outlawed since it is too distracting and might draw attention away from the road. Shoot, maybe we should all drive Honda's and Nissan's that look exactly alike so we aren't tempted to look at somebodies car as it drives by since that too would be distracting and many more motorcycles would go unseen. Sorry rant over. 
And last night I was in a sore mood due to just getting a $25 parking ticket for parking in my sisters apt. complex lot while I visited for 10 minutes to pick up some stuff she brought back from my parents house. And now I'm finishing 10 hours on campus.
Jason


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Jason4)*

When halogen lights were introduced, their were many people who were against them....saying too much glare, too bright, etc. HID's....there's that group that says too much glare, too bright, etc....
DRLs.....there's always people against it.....too much glare, too bright, etc....
I'm personally convinced about DRLs since less tractor trailers are running me off the road (a few incidents with my previous cars....trailer passing someone...I was passing them, as I'm driving through the "no-zone" they got into my lane, I swerved out of the way.....driving with my headlights on my old cars....they try the same thing, then they just barely notice me, and change their mind)


----------



## sparty (Jun 14, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (converted_vw)*

I think part of the point is that by having a *switch*, you can turn the lights on when you want to (dusk/dawn, windy mountain roads, to get the attention of the guy driving the Excursion in the wrong lane, etc), but they're not on all the time, thereby making the other guy who's got his lights on (because he's on a motorcycle or because the Excursion is in *his* lane) stands out more. The safety advantage of DRLs is that they bring more attention to your vehicle; the disadvantage is that they take more attention away from other things, presumably things on the road (assuming total attention to be zero-sum).
There's also the question of cars (e.g. Saturn and apparently some BMWs) that use high beams as DRLs; I think that's a slightly different issue and more related to poor implementation rules (and crappy lighting specs to begin with). Someone (I think in another thread) mentioned 21w corner lights as legal DRLs in a European country (maybe Sweden?), so they provide good definition of the shape of the vehicle and make speed estimation easier, without becoming a glare problem at all. That I like.
Personally, I'm glad I don't have DRLs because I have 80/100W bulbs in my headlights right now (e-code lamps, I'm switching to 55/100 next time I get bulbs...I know that running 80W lows is a dumb, but I wanted the higher wattage on high beams and couldn't get 55/100 bulbs at the time, figured that I'd be less dangerous with aimed e-code lamps and those bulbs than a lot of the people running around with poorly-aimed DOT lamps) and partially because I've had charging system issues and having the headlights on constantly would have been even worse. I also think that telling drivers to turn off their headlamps in well-lit cities makes a *lot* of sense, but unfortunately we dont' do that here. If some of the other lighting specs were fixed (e.g. outlaw beam patterns that don't have a ece-spec cutoff), DRLs would be a lot less annoying and the discussion might make a lot more sense.


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## wolfier (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (nater)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I really don't understand the argument about the bike and the drls causing an accident.
What really caused that accident was a driver that wasn't paying attention. It happens all of the time. If I have my eyes on the road and am concentrating on actually driving then I see everything on the road.[HR][/HR]​Exactly. If a driver is not paying attention, then the presense of DRL definitely would NOT make a difference.
Anyone who cannot see monstrosities such as...CARS...under broad daylight







deserves to be classified as legally blind, and have their licenses revoked.


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## Superschnelles (Jan 5, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

i think drl is pointless and would turn them off no matter what.


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## Chris_Jones1 (Apr 30, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Superschnelles)*

I like what Lexus and some others do. If you want your lights on all of the time turn it on and after you turn off and car and set the alarm they turn off. If you dont want them on all of the time turn them off and on. I don't like waking people when I pull in there driveway at 3 am.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Chris_Jones1)*

Well, I had disabled my DRL's, on a power kick, but, i just re-enabled them. Does it really matter that frekin much that I have the power over my lights. DRL's don't kill, it wasn't the lights that hurt the motorcylist, it was an optical illusion, might of happened without lights too, its specualtion, counts for nothing. 
In any event, even if all cars have DRLs it doesn't take away from thier effectiveness. Our eyes are trained to notice things that give off light. Period, no matter how many light sources there are. If all cars have DRLs, you'll see them better! I'm not saying that you can see every car better, but, most likely, that car that you might not have seen if it had been dark you can see because of the DRLs. Does it kill me to change a bulb twice as often, no, so stop complaining!
-Corey


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## Foy (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

I disabled mine, because I installed the Euroswitch and headlight assemblies and wanted complete control of whether or not Ito use my headlights. On 03 models, there is a relay under the dash that controls the daytime lights. You will notice or have already noticed that when your emergency brake is engaged, the daytime lights are off. You might even have heard the relay click? Anyway, it is relay 173 pin 5. Unplug the relay and cut the #5 pin flush with the relay housing. Done. No more daytime lights. The other way is to mess with the headlight switch, but since the relay is way less expensive, I chose the relay.


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## SleepyJoe (Nov 1, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

[Modified by SleepyJoe, 2:52 PM 4-16-2003]


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## YKK (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxxam* »_Really... why good Canada but no good LA









Because in Canada's winter time... every day is god damn dark.....
And here in L.A we got more then 330 days oF sun light a year........... 
I had been liveing in Vancouver for 7 years then i move to L.A for 10 years.....
If you every been to L.A.... YOU WILL KNOW WHAT I MEAN....


_Modified by YKK at 2:14 AM 5-11-2003_


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## AirWater98 (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maxxam* »_Can you explain exactly what you did please. That might help.
Thanks,
Max

I have a 98 Jetta GLX US model with us headlight switch. I removed the switch from the dash and looking at the connector on the back of it there is a yellow wire on the upper left hand side of the connector i think it is pin 15?? I removed the connector from the back of the switch and cut a piece of electrical tape to make one wrap around the spade connector and then fold over the top so when i pushed it back on, the tape didn't come off. Presto Chango, no more DRL's and i don't have to deal with my E-brake light staying on anymore!! Hope this helps!


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (AirWater98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AirWater98* »_
I have a 98 Jetta GLX US model with us headlight switch. I removed the switch from the dash and looking at the connector on the back of it there is a yellow wire on the upper left hand side of the connector i think it is pin 15?? I removed the connector from the back of the switch and cut a piece of electrical tape to make one wrap around the spade connector and then fold over the top so when i pushed it back on, the tape didn't come off. Presto Chango, no more DRL's and i don't have to deal with my E-brake light staying on anymore!! Hope this helps!

I don't know if it's as easy as that on a MK2 but i'll try pulling the switch and see if it has similar connections.


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## joshman (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

There is no need for DRLs. Turn lights on when it gets dark or rainy. Leave them off when it is sunny. Fog lights (especially rear fogs) should only be used in fog or heavy rain. It is simply really.
However, if I were riding around on a motorcycle, I'd leave my light on all the time. I might even run some higher-wattage bulbs to make me stand out from the sea of DRLs. I wouldn't have to do that if GM had not started this mass-production of DRL hysteria.
Josh


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## eirjordan (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

So I have a question, I'm in Canada where its "apparently good to have DRLs" for some reason







and I'm about to run my lights through some relays to make them brighter. Since I am bypassing the power from factory light switch does this mean that my DRLs are gonna run at 100% brightness because of the relays?! That would be crazy becuause I have a pair of Silverstars in my headlights and don't want them to be running 100% output all day. That would burn my bulbs much faster!


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (eirjordan)*

In a word. Yes. 
They will run at 100% intensity if you run the lights off a relay and drive the relay with
your old light circuit (typically way to run HIDs for instance). 
ian


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## eirjordan (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Daemon42)*

What can I do to prevent this from happening without getting rid of DRL? Is there a way to have the headlights work with 50% light in DRL and 100% when ON with relayed headlights?


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (eirjordan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eirjordan* »_What can I do to prevent this from happening without getting rid of DRL? Is there a way to have the headlights work with 50% light in DRL and 100% when ON with relayed headlights?

What you want is theoretically possible, but not terribly easy. First, you have to "disable" the conventional DRL circuit and make it where your normal headlight circuit controls the relays for the headlights. Then, you need to tap into the DRL circuit at (or before) the point where you disable it. Use that DRL power to control a DRL only relay that includes a high wattage, low resistance resistor inline with the power. You can then use the resistor limited power for a reduced intensity feed to the headlights. 
This won't interfere with your normal headlight operation at all. Actually, if you get a DPDT relay for the headlights, you could do it with a single relay. Use the output that's powered with the headlight switch "on" to run straight power to the headlights. Use the outpout that's powered with the headlight switch "off" to run power through a high wattage resistor for reduced intensity DRL's. Actually, you would still need a second relay to turn off power when the ignition is off, otherwise your DRL's would run all the time (even when the car is turned off, at least until the battery dies).


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (eirjordan)*

Not easily. 
The whole point of the relay is that it's supposed to supply minimum resistance in
the wiring between the battery and the light. As long as the relay is in the circuit 
the lights run at 100% intensity. 
What'd you'd need if you want the DRL circuit to work
again is a way to bypass the relay. Roughly it'd look like this.








So instead of the relay completely replacing the stock wiring (represented by green path)
it'd be added in parallel to it, and switchable. Switch the switch off, only the stock wiring
passes current (green). With switch closed, you have stock wiring, plus the relay is switched on
and you get the thick wires from the battery able to carry a higher current. (yellow)
And no, it doesn't hurt anything to have both circuits going to the same terminal on the light.
It's all +12V and two paths are actually better than one, as it reduces the total resistance
(although that's what the thick wires from the battery, through relay to light were for
in the firstplace). 
ian


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## s3GTI (Jan 21, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Deception)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Deception* »_Even if the DRLs were at 50% intensity I still would disable them.


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## ILJM-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (wolfier)*

when i had DRL's they looked just as bright as if i had the light switch turned on..


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## dmkozak (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Racer_X)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Racer_X* »_ I've also never seen a study that says there's any safety benefit to DRL's in latitudes comparable to the southern United States. 

So, just because you haven't seen them means we're all supposed to believe they don't exist? Have you tried the Institute for Highway Safety? They have U.S. studies which "prove" DRL's decrease accidents and save lives.


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (dmkozak)*

Swell.
Fact remains, there are times one does *not* want to be noticed.
This really isn't about safety, it's about choice. Live dangerously,
drive with your lights off in the daytime..








ian


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## Foy (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (dmkozak)*

That fact is probably true and the majority of drivers out there need the added benefit of DRL's. Some people just don't pay attention and there are a lot of people who should just not drive. If you think you are a good driver, one would hope that you are using all your mirrors and scanning for other motorists and pedestrians all the time. Having a good offense is also requires a good defense. I do just fine without my DRL's. I'm always looking out for that one person. If someone doesn't see me, oh well. They should have been paying attention in the first place!


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## maxxam (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Daemon42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daemon42* »_Swell.
Fact remains, there are times one does *not* want to be noticed.
This really isn't about safety, it's about choice. Live dangerously,
drive with your lights off in the daytime..








ian

Exactly... Well said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Update for MK2 folks:
While at the drive in the other day I wanted to start my Jetta in the middle of watching T3 (my stereo was just sucking down juice). Problem is of course my engine can't run with the damn lights off







Did i mention i hate DRLs?! So i got a little crafty... Did you ever notice (MK2 folk) that when you depress the switch to turn your lights on the DRLs acctually turn off before your regular lights come on? So... I stuffed a folded napkin behind the ledge on the switch so it doesn't depress all the way but still clicks forward. This allowed me to run my car during a movie and save me from annoying people in front. However... my brake lights and p[late light stayed on







So it's not a total work around but it's somewhat usefull. Just wanted to share that


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## TurboKid18 (Apr 4, 2003)

I just ordered a euroswitch...is there a way to run just the fog lights and no city lights??? I would like to be able to have my fogs on and nothing else in the headlamp. I just put in some new PIAA yellow bulbs and they would look really nice without and other lights surrounding them...thanks!!


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: (TurboKid18)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TurboKid18* »_I just ordered a euroswitch...is there a way to run just the fog lights and no city lights???


There's a real good chance that I'm the only one to ever work out how to do this..








http://www.houseofthud.com/rintintin/switchmod.htm
This works on even the stock switch, but I've done it to both stock and Euro switch.
ian


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## VR6-DasLightTheWay (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (bugged)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugged* »_Save the HID? They have order of magnitude better lifespans than halogens. They'll outlast the car.
 
Or so they claim but most will only last 7 years and that is NOT the life of a car. If used as DRL's try less than that.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (VR6-DasLightTheWay)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6-DasLightTheWay* »_ 
Or so they claim but most will only last 7 years and that is NOT the life of a car. If used as DRL's try less than that. 

There are all sorts of ways of looking at this...
I agree that if HID's are used as DRL's then the life of the HID will be much less than the life of the car BUT...
The average (according to US DOT) person trades his/her car in every 4 years (about 55K miles). 
So, HID lasts the "lifetime" of the original owner of that car (in theory).
Another way to look at it is like this:
The Average life span of a car (according to US DOT) is a tad over 13yrs...
If you look at how much a person could drive at night each day or each week I think a nice average would be somewhere around 4 hours/week (this number can go much higher in the winter and almost to zero in the summer)...
Then the simple math comes in...
4hrs/week
2500hrs (hid life)/4hrs = 625 weeks
625 weeks = 4375 days = 12years.
So, for all intents and purposes HID lasts the life of the car.
I mean, how many of us own our car for 12-13 years.
The thought process behind these statements is that it will outlast *most* cars out there. And this is still true.
But, I think this thread will last longer than HID's will at this rate







.
Later,


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## 03VDUB (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

Hmmmm, if the e-brake kills the lights, then wouldn't there be a some kind of a trigger near the ebrake? couldn't we just figure out what wires they are and throw some kind of a switch in line or for those that don't want DLR's at all, just short the wires out? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ?


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (03VDUB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *03VDUB* »_Hmmmm, if the e-brake kills the lights, then wouldn't there be a some kind of a trigger near the ebrake? couldn't we just figure out what wires they are and throw some kind of a switch in line or for those that don't want DLR's at all, just short the wires out? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif ?

Sure.. if you want the ebrake light on the dash on all the time.
The decision to enable/disable the DRLs is made in the DRL relay, and it
also takes the lead from the handbrake switch, which is why 
1. you can disable the DRLs by pulling or modifying that relay
2. if you do remove the relay, your handbrake indicator on the dash doesn't work any more
but can be fixed with a simple jumper. 
ian


----------



## TurboniumHillfolk (Dec 15, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Daemon42)*

ok this is the best way to disable the drl's,,,,,,,remove headlite switch,disconnect wiring on back,,,find the terminal marked "trl" or "tlr",,(i cant remember the order of the letters,,buts the only one marked like this),,,take a small piece of(electrical) tape and stick it on this terminal,carefully plug harness back in,,,,voila,,no drls,,,no brake lite on or other problems at all,,and its easy to return to having drls,,try it!!easier than removing relays+installing jumpers,etc,,,checked it out on my vag com,,and it doesnt throw any wierd codes either,,,,,,!


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## butang (Oct 6, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (TurboniumHillfolk)*

Turbonium is correct, I did the it the same way and it's the easiest way to disable the DRLs....Takes approximately 30 seconds and works great...
I turned mine off because they happen to annoy the crap outta me on other cars and I never really saw the benefit from them........ It's one of the first things I wanted to 'fix' when I bought the car.
Also, I was tired of having to hold up the parking brake at night when trying to sneak up behind someone or roll out of or into someone's driveway (my own even) discretely at 4-5 in the morning.


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## Iago (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Jason4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jason4* »_Anyone who has tried to pass on a two lane mountain road in the woods knows how nice it is to be able to spot oncoming traffic by their headlights. Especially in the rain. And it makes an even bigger difference on forest green, brown, and black cars.

Just to add to the fray here...
If it's raining, and you're on a wooded two-lane mountain road, WHY are you trying to pass?
Headlights regardless, this would simply just NOT be a safe maneuver.
DRL's are not a replacement for simple common sense and defensive driving. And to expect them to be, or pledge support for them so that you can feel better driving aggressively is quite counter-intuitive.
I'm not looking to argue or flame, I just wanted to drop of my opinion and let the actual on-topic conversation continue...


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## Jason4 (Sep 15, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Iago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Iago* »_
Just to add to the fray here...
If it's raining, and you're on a wooded two-lane mountain road, WHY are you trying to pass?
Headlights regardless, this would simply just NOT be a safe maneuver.
DRL's are not a replacement for simple common sense and defensive driving. And to expect them to be, or pledge support for them so that you can feel better driving aggressively is quite counter-intuitive.
I'm not looking to argue or flame, I just wanted to drop of my opinion and let the actual on-topic conversation continue...

I don't know what road conditions are like most of the year in Texas but here in Washington I find myself driving in the rain on tree lined roads a lot. Especially in the winter when I'm driving to the mountains 100 times a year to go snowboarding. Sometimes you really do need to pass that minivan when it is only capable of 20mph in a 50 zone because the mom is afraid that cold rain is worse than warm rain and the kids in the back are screaming and it's a powder day and all you want to do is get the lifts. It's even worse when there is a hippy in the other rain in his/her rust colored subaru justy who didn't realize that the smoke is impairing his vision as much as the rain and the lack of headlight. I wish DRL's came on cars back then and everyone could have the choice to disable them. At least then its a conscious decision instead of just forgetting to turn on your lights when conditions warrant them.
Jason


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## TurboniumHillfolk (Dec 15, 2000)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Jason4)*

yea i had her car in for some warranty work,,it was late,like 8pm(sorta dark) or so,,and the svc. mngr. went+got the car,,he pulled up with a smile and asked how i disabled the drls with no problems,,he said it took a few seconds to realize he couldnt see so good in the dim lit lot without turning on headlites,he was ok with it,and will pass the tip on to his buddies too


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## BAMA TDI (Nov 26, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Senna 1.8T)*

I have to completely agree with Senna 1.8T on this one.







I have replaced 2 headlights on my 2000 Jetta. Both times it was the driver's side that went bad. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif What a royal pia to replace.







Thank goodness for extra long curved hemostats, aka roach clips,







cause my finger dexterity ain't the greatest in the world. Ever since I got a Euro switch from Senna http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







I have run with my parking lights and no more blown headlight bulbs. DEC this year I will have had the car 4 years. Note, I have NOT disable my DRLs tho I am thinking about it since installing E-codes. 
Regards,
John


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## DonL (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Iago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Iago* »_
Just to add to the fray here...
If it's raining, and you're on a wooded two-lane mountain road, WHY are you trying to pass?
Headlights regardless, this would simply just NOT be a safe maneuver.


Hmmm, I think I'd kinda disagree with this. Passing can be done safely as long you're patient and select the proper time and place. Reckless passing is reckless passing, no matter where you are or what the weather. 
Besides, if it's rainy and you're on a wooded road, you should have your lights on anyways, whether DRLs or standard headlights. So should oncoming traffic. In this case, your lights should be intended to help _you_ see. That they help someone else see you is coincidental and an added benefit.
Some people don't like DRLs, for whatever reason and want to disable them. Maybe the added load on the alternator to run DRLs is robbing someone of a crucial 0.0782 horsepower. Maybe the lifespan of your bulb will be 4.32876%. Fine, whatever. 
As long as they reasonably and responsibly turn their lights on whenever conditions warrant, there shouldn't be a problem, unless they're run into by some old milk shake who claims they "didn't see them". Then, there may be some blame to share with the "olde pharte".
Others see DRLs as a messianic gift from the auto makers and the government, since they always know what's best for us.
I'm in the "don't much care" camp. Arguments for added safety often use questionable statistics in order to make their point. OTOH, I can understand the theory of the benefits of DRLs. As long as they work and don't cause me grief, that's the important thing. My concern would be in increasing the brightness and effectiveness of the lighting when you need it most. That's where our efforts should be. Get NHTSA and the feds to scrap the old school regs and come up with something that's modern and effective.


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## SDRon (Oct 5, 2003)

*Eurovan Euroswitch?*

I just got an '03 Eurovan, my first VW with DRLs, and I'd really like to be able to have just parking lights on at appropriate times. From reading the posts in this thread, it appears that a European headlight switch is the way to go. Anybody know how to get one?
BTW, disabling DRLs on this model is easy: take off the plastic panel at the lower center of the dash just above the console (4 screws), and remove the relay labeled "94".


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Daemon42)*

Hello All:
I just installed a set of OEM VW xenon headlights in my 2002 Golf, and I *want to keep* the DRL function (yea, I know some of you might think this is odd, but there are a lot of small kids in my neighborhood...)
Anyway, I can't use the DRL's as they are wired now, because the low beam circuit gets a reduced voltage level when the low beams are getting power through the DRL circuit. I have been studying the Bentley manual, trying to figure out where the voltage reduction takes place, but I just can't find the resistor in the circuit. I've been looking at the wiring diagram that starts on page 97/620 of the "99 through 2002" Bentley manual. That is the diagram with the VW identification "61", which is titled "Daytime running lights from May 2000".
Do any of you wise folks happen to know where the voltage gets reduced in the DRM circuit, and how I could go about bypassing this voltage reduction so my new xenon lights get full voltage from the DRL circuit?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (PanEuropean)*

In the Mk3's it's been referred to as "The long thing wire" and it runs under the driver
side doorsill and is pretty much just that. A long thin wire that acts as a resistor. Presumably the idea
is to disipate the heat over a larger area, instead of having one blazing hot little power resistor. 
Mk4's may do the same thing.
However, the best way to avoid all this is to put your HIDs on a relay. The relay doesn't take any
significant current, so it doesn't care whether it's running in normal or DRL mode. The HID ballasts then
also get full power from the battery all the time.
ian


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Daemon42)*

Yeah, I think they must. The wire gauge coming off the DRL relay for the lights is smaller than normal, 20 or 22 I'd guess. And, there is no resistor represented in the Bentley manual, from what I've been able to find.
Mike


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (mhackett)*

Mike:
Do you know what the identification of the wire you refer to is? Meaning, either the colour code, pin reference, or Bentley diagram wire number reference is? I have not been able to figure that out.
Ian:
In principle, I agree with you, powering them from a relay would be nice. But I have a factory-made adapter harness in place already, so I don't want to get up into the headlights and start re-wiring if I can avoid it - I'm hoping I can just solve this low voltage problem in the area of the exisiting 179 relay if possible.
Michael


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (PanEuropean)*

In diagram 61/4, it's the ge/gn (yellow/green) wire hooked to pin 5 of the DRL relay. There's actually two wires of that color, the other comes in to relay pin 2 from the TFL pin of the headlight switch. That is of normal gauge (18). It is the one coming from pin 5 that is of smaller gauge and is presumably where the voltage drop is happening. That wire goes from the relay to parts unknown, but eventually ties into the circuitry feeding fuses S20 and S21, the two lowbeam fuses.
I'd think what you should be able to do is jumper an 18ga wire from as close to pin 5 of the relay as you can and splice it into the fuse block at the wire feeding fuse S20 (which is also a yellow/green wire). That should remove most of the voltage drop. You could bridge to the yellow/green wire feeding S21 as well, though that is probably not necessary, as they are coming from a common point not too far upstream, hopefully, so voltage drop should be minimal in any case.
Mike


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (mhackett)*

Mike:
Thanks for pointing that out, that was really sharp of you to pick up on the tiny wire gauge coming out of pin 5.
I had a second look at the wiring diagram (61/4) - as you point out, the wire at track 38 (upper part) is only 0,5mm. What is perplexing to me is that when that same wire appears again (on the continuation of the 'c' circuit, at track 25), it has morphed into a more normal 1,5mm wire. It seems to be unusual for VW to draw a diagram like this and not indicate where the wire changes its size - I can only assume that it changes size at a connector somewhere, but they have not shown the connector







- UNLESS the reference to 'B167' in the circle at the far left end of the 'c' circuit (on the diagram between tracks 18 and 19) means that all the connections on 'c' circuit meet at B167.
I guess I will have to go digging and physically trace that 0,5mm wire, because I have no idea at all where the connection B167 is... the wiring diagram isn't very specific about it, just describing it as "Connection 56b in passenger compartment wiring harness".
Last call - has anyone else out there got any knowledge about this?


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (PanEuropean)*

I would think the next place to go would be to pull the driver side door sill and see if 
there's really a small wire running through there. Perhaps you'll find your missing 
connector too. Or you could just test to make sure that the exit and suspected
return points for that circuit are hot when the DRL circuit is activated
and then splice a wire across it and see if it has the effect you're after.
ian


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (Daemon42)*

Daemon:
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm beginning to think that the references about the long wire (the 'resistor' wire) refer only to an A3 Golf, though. I have an A4 Golf (2002 model).
Michael


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Daemon:
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm beginning to think that the references about the long wire (the 'resistor' wire) refer only to an A3 Golf, though. I have an A4 Golf (2002 model).


That's certainly possible, but I am curious why you'd come to that conclusion? So far
I haven't heard of anyone tracking it down one way or the other.
ian


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (PanEuropean)*

Those Bentley diagrams are the strangest I've ever seen. They are a mixture of physical connections and schematic (logical) connections combined on the same diagram. Clever, I guess.
I'd never bothered to look up the meanings of 1,5 and 0,5, thanks for mentioning that. I probably wasn't as sharp as you gave me credit for, since I noticed the smaller wire only when I was actually under there trying out some different DRL approaches. Didn't figure it out from looking at the manual. I actually went in the opposite direction, I wanted to add to the resistance of this circuit. Since I put in some Philips VisionPlus bulbs, which probably don't have the lifetime of the OEM bulbs, I thought adding a bit more resistance would make them last a little longer. I used about 20 feet of 18 gauge wire I had left over from another project, spliced it in and layed it up inside there, loosely coiled. Did what I wanted.
There is a 56B connection labeled on the connector for the turnsignal/highbeam-flasher column switch. Quite possibly the thin wire connects into the thicker wire somewhere not too far from that.
Mike


_Modified by mhackett at 3:23 PM 10-27-2003_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (mhackett)*

Mike:
Thanks a lot for the tip about the 56b connection on the turn signal, that's the critter I'm looking for.
Concerning the Philips Vision Plus bulbs, don't worry about them - I have been running them on both my Golf and my motorcycle for several years, the moto has 75,000 km in the last two years, and has yet to burn out a bulb (it uses two). One bulb failed on my Golf in two years and 30,000 km, that is with the 'normal' DRL circuit, so I think they have pretty good life.


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (PanEuropean)*

I guess I was staring at the book too late last night, and had forgotten by today that the 56B connection on the turnsignal level is only for Jettas (since on those the lowbeam has to go off when the highbeam is turned on). For Golfs, I think you want to concentrate on the connection in diagram 61/5, coming from pin 7 of the headlight switch itself (the dot-dashed Golf-only wire). That may lead you somewhere, or you could splice your bypass jumper directly to that, instead of the fusebox leads I mentioned before.
As to the additional voltage reduction I added, yeah, probably won't make much real difference. The other reason I did it was because I think there are new standards for maximum DRL brightness coming along someday and I wanted to be the first on my block to conform








Mike


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (mhackett)*

Mike, I think you were quite correct and accurate in your original post, when you wrote _"There is a 56B connection labeled on the connector for the turnsignal/highbeam-flasher column switch"._ .
Although it is true that the wire shown on track 19 only exists on the Jetta's, and the wire shown on track 50 only exists on the Golf's, whatever car you have, the appropriate wire will terminate at connection 56b. Reason I say this is because the horizontal line 'c' across the top of the pages shows "B167" (connection 56b) as the connection, regardless of the vehicle type, Golf or Jetta.
I suspect that on a Golf, one would find a wire at connection 56b that leads to the light switch pin T17/7 (track 50 on page 61/5), and on a Jetta, one would find a wire at 56b that leads to the headlight dimmer/flasher switch T12/8 (track 19 on page 61/3).
The only problem that remains







is the original one - where the heck is connection 56b (shown as B167 on the diagram)? I need to find connection 56b in order to find the thin 0,5mm wire that is depicted on track 39, because to solve the problem of reduced voltage to DRL's, I *think* what I need to do is replace that 0,5mm wire with a 1,5mm one. I know one end of that 0,5mm wire can be found on the DRL relay (coming out of pin 5, as shown on track 39), what I need to do is determine where the other end of it is. Like I said in the first paragraph, I think you might have correctly located it, if there is a label on or near the dimmer/flasher switch that says "connection 56b". It's not that difficult for me to pop the covers off the steering column and have a look - in fact, it's a heck of a lot easier for me to do that than it would be to try and physically trace that 0,5mm wire from where it starts at the DRL relay.
I went to my Canadian dealer today to try to get more information - they are a really smart, sharp and helpful dealer - and *they * couldn't find the location of this connection, so now I am getting really worried.
Michael
_PS: For anyone who is wondering what we are talking about, and does not want to read backwards about 6 posts, we are discussing the wiring diagram 61/5, "Daytime Running Lights from May 2000", which can be found on pages 97-620 to 97-626 of the '1999 through 2002' Bentley manual._ 


_Modified by PanEuropean at 12:02 AM 10-28-2003_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (PanEuropean)*

I just noticed something that might help me find this connection - the wires coming from fuses 20 and 21 (the fuses for the headlights, I presume) also go to this same connector "B167" (56b) - maybe I'll try to follow those wires and see if they lead me to the connector...


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (PanEuropean)*

Right, I was just thinking you won't find anything to trace from the turnsignal lever in a Golf, if you were of a mind to be tracing some wires to find the elusive 56B junction. It's entirely possible there is no one "junction" anyway. These various yellow/green wires could all be spliced to each other at several different points in the harness, wrapped under miles of tape.
I guess I'm not entirely sure why you think you really need find the other end of the thin wire, anyway. It can remain in place. Just splice in a thicker wire from the DRL relay up to one of the wires I mentioned in prior posts, and you'll be in business. The current will divide between the thin wire and the jumper wire, proportional to their respective resistances, but the important thing is that the combined resistance will be much closer to the jumper wire, in fact a little bit less. That's all you need to get full voltage to your ballasts in DRL mode.
Mike


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## DonL (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (mhackett)*

Installing relays isn't that difficult, and would ensure plenty of current to power the lights on full-power mode.
I'm running standard type higher-power bulbs in my GTI with relays. Leaving the DRL circuit intact would allow sufficient power to the relays to trigger them all the time, which would pour full power into the lights. In my particular case, I disabled the DRLs because I didn't want the headlights on full power all the time.
Relays would not only allow full power all the time to the headlight circuit, but would supply a healthier current, less voltage drop, and better headlight efficiency.


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (DonL)*

He mentioned further up that he knew about the relay solution, but preferred to keep the underhood HID harness intact.
Since HIDs are supposed to draw less current than halogen bulbs, in theory the use of relays to minimize voltage drop is a bit less warranted. I don't know enough about HIDs to know how their behavior is once you get above, say, 13 volts, like does any more than that really make a difference.
I've also wondered about relays with halogen bulbs, yes, they'll make them brighter, but they'll also make them burn out faster. That being said, the voltage drop with stock wiring and halogens is certainly hurting their performance. It is even possible to detect visually that the right headlight burns a bit less bright than the left one, due to the extra wire getting to that side. I measured a difference in volts getting to the respective sides once, I forget what it was, maybe a tenth or two. Enough to make a visible difference, anyway.
Mike


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (mhackett)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mhackett* »_
Since HIDs are supposed to draw less current than halogen bulbs, in theory the use of relays to minimize voltage drop is a bit less warranted. 

True and false.
They draw less current at steady state warm operation. 35watts each for a total of 6 amps draw. 
The problem is at startup, the ballasts draw a huge current. My Philips ballasts say the initial draw
can be as high as 18 amps.. each. They continue to draw quite a bit more for a while after ignition
(while they're still noticeably blue) and only when fully warm, drop to their rated 35watts. Someone 
here had their HIDs set up on one 30 amp automotive relay and was having problems with only one of 
them igniting, moved to two relays and problem solved.
Frankly it would scare me to ever power HIDS (OEM or otherwise) through stock wiring. 
ian


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## DonL (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (mhackett)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mhackett* »_He mentioned further up that he knew about the relay solution, but preferred to keep the underhood HID harness intact.

bUt i are a gude reeder...















Good point about the voltage drop, that was my main concern. I checked the voltage drop per Dan Stern's website to check the efficiency of the stock vs. the relayed wiring.
The stock wiring had a voltage drop of 1.5-1.6 volts. After the relay conversion, 0.4 V. Hooking up one side of the harness to the lights and comparing it to the stock wiring on the other side, it was an easily noticable difference.
I hadn't noticed an appreciable difference in halogen bulb lifespan on my last two cars. I know that on some bulbs (xenon, IIRC) running them at low voltages is actually detrimental to their lifespan, as they're designed and intended to run at full power. Any idea if halogen would be the same?


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (DonL)*

Yes, there is a point where a halogen bulb is running too cool for the halogen cycle (filament boiling off and redepositing back on the filament itself rather than the inside of the bulb glass) to take place. This is a pretty low voltage, though. GM's highbeam DRL solution for some cars involves running the highbeams in series, so each gets 6-7 volts. I've read this is getting close to where they would be too cold, but it is not generally considered a bulb killer, far as I know.
Certainly, disabling your DRLs is helping the lifespan in your case. If I were to go to a relay setup someday, it would have to be designed so that the DRLs still work at a lower voltage.
BTW, I'm not necessarily a fan of DRLs, but I've sort of made peace with them, especially since I get a discount on my insurance for having them.
Thanks for the explanation about HID startup current requirements. Wasn't aware of that.
Mike


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## jjjrGTI (Oct 10, 2003)

Don't mean to get off topic her guys, but a quick question...
The elec. tape over the TFL pin on the solves the DRL headlights coming on it seems, but I would really like to get the interior instrument and console lights to stay off til I turn the switch to on (or to parking and then on for the euro switch). Does either the TFL fix of the Euro switch allow control of the lighting like early Mk2 off/parking/on funtion switches?
Thanks in advance (before I jump into the TFL fix and then curse profusely)
jjjrGTI


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (jjjrGTI)*

I can only guess this is a pre-MkIV thing, since my interior lights certainly don't come on unless parking lights or headlights are switched on. Well, other than a couple on the headlight switch itself to help you find it in the dark.
That being the case, you may want to start another topic to catch a bigger audience.
If this question is for a MkIV car, then just call me confused...








Mike


_Modified by mhackett at 10:04 PM 10-28-2003_


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: (mhackett)*

It's a pre-OBDII thing. 96+ Mk3's didn't have this weird glitch
with all the running lights and instrument lights being on.
I believe any headed switch from a 96+ car will fix that problem (at least
the running lights one). I gave my old switch to someone with a 
95 Jetta 2.0 who was having this problem.
ian


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## jjjrGTI (Oct 10, 2003)

*Re: (Daemon42)*

Thanks Mike.
Yep, not to confuse you, but this is why I thought I'd piggy back onto this thread. 
Just pulled the switch out of the dash. Since I do not have a confirmed answer, I'm gonna tape off the TFL spade on the switch and see what happens tonite. Will report back. 
As for the dash and console lights, yep, they are on all the time, just like Saab and Volvo cars.They go on with both the DRL's as well as reg. headlight switch.
Don't know when this all started and stopped in the Mk2/Mk3 line but would like to know. Very frustrating as I just got done redoing all 1.5/ 2.1v bulbs in the dash. Just want the [email protected] things to not power up except when reg headlights are on due to my 2 hour total commute each day.
Thanks for the help and I am curious as to when OBDI and OBDII divided as I think I have a VIN car near the break.
TIA!
jjjrGTI


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (jjjrGTI)*

Well, that's certainly bizarre. I wouldn't have considered a car actually ready for public sale with a design "feature" like that. Silly me.
Mike


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## jjjrGTI (Oct 10, 2003)

*Re: (mhackett)*

Whelp....it gets better....I'll start another thread til I get desparate enuff and have to start the IM and e-mail barrage...
Thomas Edison I am NOT!!!
jjjrGTI


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## jjjrGTI (Oct 10, 2003)

*Re: (jjjrGTI)*

VW service mgr told me this morning that he had never heard of the running and dash lites staying on in DRL mode, but a few others here on the forum have said that it had occured, so it sounds like a 96 yr Mk3 model change which has everyone confused.
Anyone else out there have all other running lites on including dash and console lites when DRL's are in "full effect?" How about the 93 to 95 Mk3 owners?
I'll explore a little further and see what I find behind the fuse box.....hopefully it's just a switch issue.
Thanks for any and all help.
jjjrGTI
96 GTI 2.0


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## DonL (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: (jjjrGTI)*

My `96 OBDII car (build date 12/95) has the running and instrument lights staying on all the time, even with the DRLs bypassed. Haven't found a way to get around it, since the power feed seems to come through the switch itself via the brightness control.
I've heard that the early MkIII cars ('93-'94) didn't do this, that it was something with the later cars, with somewhere in the late-'95-'96 model year being the change.
Problem is, when you look for a general switch, all you really find are "fits all `93-`99 MkIII Golfs and Jettas" applications.
The whole thing is starting to really annoy me.















Curse you, euro-switch, curse you to hell!


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: (DonL)*

Find someone with a late model Mk3 who's upgraded to a euroswitch, and buy their old stock switch 
from them (they may even just give it to you). That'll fix most of the problems, 
and you can disable the DRL itself with the tape or relay change. 
I know every '95 had this problem, and I know of no '97 and beyond that do,
so the change was most likely made between '95 and '96 and some '96's still
show it. I attempted to help someone "fix" the switch on their '95 by taping
over various pins, and removing the little jumper that is attached on the bottom
and finally gave up, because it's wired oddly internally. Could get it to disable the
DRL's but then like the running lights on only one side of the car would stay on.
ian


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## jjjrGTI (Oct 10, 2003)

*Re: (Daemon42)*

Yep. Don, it sounds like we have the same problem. Unique thing with mine though--which is why VW may have gone to a different switching system in late 96-- is that I found a two pronged white plug dislodged from the rear driver's side taillight. When I plugged this in, ALL if the DRL lights stayed on.. the DRL headlights, the running lights and dash lights..and this with the e-brake ON the the keys OUT of the igniton. They would be on 24/7 with the white plug in...strange indeed. Left rear taillight bulb keeps blowing a fuse too.
Sounds like a switch glitch, so now I hafta find a 97/98 switch to try.
Will keep everyone posted. Hmmmmmmm.
jjjrGTI


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## jjjrGTI (Oct 10, 2003)

*Re: (jjjrGTI)*

Don and Daemon42;
Whelp, just got back from the dealer...problem solved! 
Old headlight switch was for crap. New one plugged in and worked as supposed to. Seems 95/96 Mk3 crap switches have a metal bridge between two of the spades (57 and 57L) on the back that make the running lights and dash lights run all the time and then also burn up other components due to heat and burning time. new switches do not have that feature. Still have my eye out for a euro switch and probaly will sell new switch in time. 
I'll try tape again over TSL spade and with any luck...my DRL's will be gone.
Thanks for all the help.
I'll try and post pic's of the old switch so people know what to look for if they have them.
Oh, and Wolfier....thanks for the initial post--did not mean to hijack your thread!
jjjrGTI



_Modified by jjjrGTI at 7:57 PM 10-29-2003_


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: (jjjrGTI)*

Yes, I mentioned the jumper above.
However, just removing the jumper on the old switch does not solve the problem, it just
creates strange asymetrical effects. The fix it to get a new switch, which you've
done, as I suggested. Problem solved.
ian


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Further follow-up on the DRL voltage drop problem*

Hello All:
Just an update here, and also a thanks to everyone who has contributed thoughts so far.
I have contacted a friend of mine who is the technical editor of the Bentley manuals for the Mk4 Golf and Jetta, and even he is having trouble finding out "for sure" where the voltage drop to the DRL's takes place. At least he was able to tell me that "56b" is the DIN designation for "lighting - low beam", and this connection is a soldered/crimped connection inside the passenger compartment wiring harness. It is NOT a detachable connection. I would have to slice open the wiring harness to find it. Well, I don't want to do that, so it looks like using relays up at the headlights is the only possible work-around for the voltage drop.
Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a "weather resistant" relay, designed for mounting in a location where it might get wet or damp (meaning, up behind the headlights)?
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 4:26 AM 10-30-2003_


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Further follow-up on the DRL voltage drop problem (PanEuropean)*

Michael, I've given you a non-relay solution for this at least a couple times now...trying to understand why you aren't trying it








Mike


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Further follow-up on the DRL voltage drop problem (mhackett)*

Hi Mike:
Yea, you have a good point. I went back and re-read your posts, and the suggestion you make about putting in a parallel 18 ga. wire sounds reasonable.
Truth is, I'm just trying to keep the darn system as simple as possible, because I spend most of my time in Europe and Africa, and my wife uses the car - which means my dealer does all the support and maintenance. I have a great dealer - they have installed and programmed all sorts of junk I have brought back from Europe, such as OEM park distance control, OEM multi-function instrument clusters, folding mirrors, all that crap - but I always try to keep the car wiring 100% original, so that if they have to troubleshoot these additions when I am away, they can use the VW wiring diagrams.
However, thinking about it a second time, I suppose the least of two evils is to put in a parallel wire (rather than relays). The still unanswered question is whether that parallel wire will, in fact, solve the reduced voltage problem. I guess what spooked me was when my friend who writes the Bentley manuals could not positivly tell me where the voltage drop was taking place. That's what got me thinking it might be safer just to supply my own "known good" DC power through relays.
I'll go poking and testing this weekend, put a multimeter on the terminals at the lights and see if voltage is normal with a 18 ga. jumper wire in place parallel to the present 0,5mm wire.
I'll keep y'all informed...
Michael


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Further follow-up on the DRL voltage drop problem (PanEuropean)*

Ok, yup, testing is called for, but it should work. If it does, it is a pretty easy hookup using those common wire splicing connectors. Original wiring does not have to be cut, so it's easily reversable.
Mike


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (maxxam)*

So, what's the easiest way to make DRL dimmer on MK4? They are almost as bright as full light and it burns my bubls too fast. Full instrcutions, diagram, resistor type, etc... would be a great welcome.


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## mhackett (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: For those who have, or deciding to disable your DRL... (alexb75)*

I mentioned how I did it on the last page. I don't believe I've seen anyone else write about doing this so you may be stuck with what I did. You need to crawl into the driver's footwell, remove the cover under there and get to the area where relay 173 is plugged in. There are two yellow/green wires going into the plug for it, from the backside. I took down the entire relay mounting frame so I could see what I was doing.
One yellow/green wire is thinner than the other, that's the one you want. You need to cut it, and put more resistance in between.
Power resistors don't make a very good solution for this, consider that about 8-9 amps are flowing through that wire, to feed two 55-watt bulbs, so the I-squared-R formula gets ugly. The resistor or resistors will get very hot, making mounting them critical.
A better solution is to just put in a bunch more wire. I wasn't confident I fully understood the engineering behind VW's use of what appears to be about 22-gauge wire for this circuit, which seems pretty small to be carrying 9 amps. So rather than worry about that, I used about 20 feet of 18-gauge wire I had left over from my rear foglight project. The total resistance of this is maybe a tenth of an ohm or a little more, which doesn't seem like much, but is all you need to drop the volts to the bulbs by another volt or so, which is actually significant.
So I soldered that in, and coiled it loosely, and just laid it up in there, out of the way of the clutch and so forth. It doesn't get very warm, unless you make the mistake of trying to make it neat and tidy by putting tiewraps around it. I did that at first, but found it was getting quite warm where the wires were bound together. So I undid those and just made sure the coil was up in there where it wouldn't be going anywhere.
Someday I'd like to experiment with the use of a smaller gauge wire, since it would mean a shorter length would be required to accomplish the same goal.
The lights are still bright enough to qualify as DRLs, but much less bright than they are when the lowbeams are switched on. Some here have said they could not see any difference with the original setup, but they'd never say the same about mine.
Mike


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