# class action against VW for timing chain problem



## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Does anyone have any leads on anything like this yet? Its about time we get something rolling because the owners of VW 05.5-2006 are CONSISTENTLY having problems with this issue at LOW LOW mileage, unlike any other 2.5 model year motors. There should be an extended warranty on this item and VW is negligent in my opinion thus far, in resolving this issue.

This car was driven in europe with the unrevised chain designs for three years? Anything over there about an extended warranty or law suits? Its a shame attorney's don't drive VW.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

tchilds said:


> Does anyone have any leads on anything like this yet? Its about time we get something rolling because the owners of VW 05.5-2006 are CONSISTENTLY having problems with this issue at LOW LOW mileage, unlike any other 2.5 model year motors. There should be an extended warranty on this item and VW is negligent in my opinion thus far, in resolving this issue.
> 
> This car was driven in europe with the unrevised chain designs for three years? Anything over there about an extended warranty or law suits? Its a shame attorney's don't drive VW.


They don't have a2.5 over seas lol...bet its unheard of over there


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

tchilds said:


> Its a shame attorney's don't drive VW.


Even if they did it wouldnt matter....
If your timing chain fails within the required warranty window then the dealer is required to replace your engine / fix the repair.


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## Schwarz_Jetta (Jul 31, 2011)

Hey guys! I completely agree, there should be a class action lawsuit filed agains VW for negligence in the manufacturing/engineering of the timing chain set up. My two cents on the topic is that anyone who has had timing chain failure and had to endure costs should be compensated for 100% of the repair job, and all other MKV's within the 2005.5-07 bracket should get there timing chains, tensioners, and guides replaced at no cost to the owner. Its clearly obvious that VW was aware of such issues, because the 08+ models had their timing chains set up revamped to avoid timing failure whether due to chain, tensioners, or "plastic" guides. If you look at the timing chain kit from ECS the plastic guides have been reinforced with aluminum or some type of metal therefore strengthening it and reducing the likelihood of the plastic breaking. If VW intended on going with this two chain set up in the first place they should not have gone cheap with the set up. Installing durable parts for a key aspect of the engine would have satisfied their goal of creating a low maintenance durable engine. but this strong example of cheap manufacturing will further lower peoples view/opinion on the reliability of VW engines. Other companies have gone with timing chain set up as well, but knew enough to make that part of the engine more durable. My brother has a 07 mazda 3 and they use a timing chain set up, and there are guys in his club that are at 100-120000mi (200,000kms) and there engines are going strong. Mind you this is a technical forum and the majority of the people who come on here are in need of assistance because something has gone wrong with their car, however if you google vw mkv 2.5l timing chain, you'll find shops that have posted up costs for swapping out motors in stead of rebuilding them, which is exactly what some of our board members have done already. Luckily for me this has not yet been an issue, but as the miles creep up this remains an nagging issue in the back of my head, and its difficult to put money into modifications with this kind of issue lurking in the back of my thoughts.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I was hoping there is an organized effort to push for an extended warranty Isaam. Not a standard 36k warranty which does not cover most chain failures. My MK4 was like 50,000 mile warranty, miss them days. 36k is barely enough miles to break a shiny new motor in these days.

We should start with a petition to VWoA, officially, so that they can no longer refute this as an issue they're "unaware" of. They need to be familiarized w/this issue in a way they can not deny. The 1.8t oil sludge guys won their class action and VW had to recall all those motors. My sister in law's passat got a full motor rebuild, top to bottom, and a new turbo out of that recall and wasn't even really affected.

Maybe a tuner should just start selling "chain insurance". Could make a small killing just traveling around the country doing chain jobs here and there and collecting the premiums mean while on the insurance against chain failure.


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## dibenej1 (Apr 10, 2003)

Just went through timing chain related issues with a 2005.5 Jetta, I'd sign a petition and take part in a class action. Not sure if a class action will form or not, I think they are pretty expensive to get started.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

dibenej1 said:


> Just went through timing chain related issues with a 2005.5 Jetta, I'd sign a petition and take part in a class action. Not sure if a class action will form or not, I think they are pretty expensive to get started.


No way of knowing until you try. I agree there isn't a lot of people here for a class action, but every victim is out an average of over $2,000 on this issue. An issue that VW obviously designed out of their motor, and still refuses to admit they were wrong on.

I'm not saying anyone would get compensation. I'm just saying getting VWoA, VW, BBB, NHSTA, etc etc etc to recognize this issue will at least get everyone on the same page so a resolution can be planned out. At the moment its just a small handful of people aware of the issue. If word gets out based on petitions and responses from various organizations involved, a lot more people may come out of the woodwork than you think. Not many will easily forget a $2,000 bill but many will move on and never think twice about it.


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## thedriver33 (May 13, 2011)

....cpo took care of mine.....thank god for it....


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

tchilds said:


> This car was driven in europe with the unrevised chain designs for three years? Anything over there about an extended warranty or law suits?


They never sold 2.5L cars in Europe.


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## PetrosVW (Dec 29, 2003)

Me and my wife bought new 05.5 2.5L Jetta. Performed services and changed the oil every 3-5K. The car has only 65K miles and I have the same issue with a stretched timing chain. 

I refuse to pay for their failure in design.


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

PetrosVW said:


> Me and my wife bought new 05.5 2.5L Jetta. Performed services and changed the oil every 3-5K. The car has only 65K miles and I have the same issue with a stretched timing chain.
> 
> I refuse to pay for their failure in design.


Just curious, auto or manual?


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## PetrosVW (Dec 29, 2003)

Auto


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

I am originally from the Netherlands, and they start the engines with 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0. Regardless, VW has been there for decades one of the best brands, and I never had heard or seen any issues with the cars.

It is so strange that a car here has problems so easy, considering that most people drive highway miles.

I support the fact that VW should have taken care of this problem. They probablt do not see it as a safety measure, and so not a recall or such.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeh well rumor has it they will be going back to a 1.8 20v type motor in the future for the "base" engine. The 2.5 has cost them "too much" money to continue to produce.

It is a great motor but there were a few early on that did have this problem.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Fuel mileage will kill off bigger displacement all motor engines as the base models coming soon. :thumbup:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeh well I'm going electric next time I buy a car. I'd rather do 0-90 in 6 seconds than 60- 120. Some day, some day.

Its amazing how VW builds amazing economy motor offered across the board, the TDI, and not one person cares. Those things make like 250ft/lb torque w/just a chip and same HP as our cars. Don't even get me started on the wonders of propane injection. STupid americans and their gas cars. I'd much rather have a 1.9 TDI than a 1.4T if the government is going to force me into compliance w/their outdated 20 year too late EPA standards on fuel economy. They let us build cars as heavy and rediculously huge as we want, but require that they are "rated". Seems kinda like exercise in futility to me.

EPA ratings don't even do diesel justice, which is another problem. Their tests are biased toward gas motors so EPA gas motor that gets rated at 40mpg, u are lucky to get 38. EPA rated diesel rated at 40mpg, u will probably get 50.

Anyway, hopefully the 1.8 20v rumored to replace the 2.5 is a turbo motor. I hope they don't bring that NA 1.8 20v over from the UK/Germany or wherever it is.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We just took a '10 jetta tdi sportwagen to SEMA and back. The trip is 420 miles (no pun) each way. You loose a few thousand feet altitude on the way down there so it's a bit biased. 

We returned 42mpg on the way down, and 38 on the way back. It was also cold on the way back, and I suspect this does not help. 

Average speed about 85... If you go 65 it will get 45-47mpg. 

That said, I want that car, with the panoramic roof / nav / 6 disk etc - with haldex and a 2.5T w/ ~500whp on 91 octane. I think that'd be sweeeeeeet. 

I do only drive about 4500 miles a year tho so I'm a bit biased towards not giving a damn about fuel mileage. 

You are also correct that the 2.5L is a bit of a stupid "base" engine, it is almost certainly not cheap to build. The new mk6 2L, which is the same old 8v from forever, revived- must have about 1/3rd the parts.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

bah they should just bring the ABF over. decades old, 170hp in a 2,200lb car. Genius. VW needs to get back to their roots and stop releasing N/A "base model" motors just to make their turbo motor feel faster.

I do love my ABA though. ABA w/16v swap = turbo :thumbup: That 8v motor in my mk2 got 44mpg before the head swap. I also ran several mid 14's on that setup w/just the clunky cheap 8v motor in there.

Point being, weight matters. EPA needs to start trimming the WEIGHT of vehicles, not the fuel economy. Instead they're going after the # of cylinders, which I don't get at all. If they taxed cars based on their weight, suddenly we have a market in this country again for small cars that we desperately need to start driving. The weight also affects emisions more than side air injection, 5 MILLION cell catalytic converters x 2 w/computers on board, etc etc....


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

They are trying to shave weight, but the crash standards are going up so fast that it's almost impossible. The average A pillar now has almost 5 times as many layers of material in it as one from the early 90's... 

That, plus size / feature creep = heavy cars. Even if you build a "small" car, it has to be heavy to be safe in an impact with all the other heavy cars. Even the tiny little mbnz smart car is well over 2k lb. 

My 6300# chevy van has a magnesium dashboard support casting, for example.  Or try cutting up a mk4 rebar for an intercooler- ya, it's only one layer of steel, but it's expensive, ultra high tensile strength steel, which is tough as hell. If they made it from "regular" steel, it'd have to be 3x as thick. The new 3 series uses an aluminum engine block which surrounds the cylinders and main caps. The rest of the block, which makes up the oil / water passenges, deck surface, etc- is cast later out of magnesium. 

On the freeway, weight doesn't matter so much. You only have to put power in to accelerate it, after it's rolling, who cares. But, these new cars have such large frontal areas, that they need to use a lot of fuel to punch a BIG hole in the air. Drag coefficients are deceiving, they will have you think that they are oh so aerodynamic compared to days of old- but they strip the frontal area OUT of the drag coefficient when it is calculated. So, a huge passat would likely have about the same Cd as a scale model, etc. 

JSW is not good for fuel either- wagons and hatchbacks are not good at high speed because of the general shape of the rear, creates a lot of drag. 

Around town, all that mass is a killer for MPG's, and the aero doesn't matter so much. Aero drag increases with velocity *squared*, so at low speed it's very minimal. Go from 65 to 85 and it about doubles, hence our "crappy" 39 mpg average @ 85mph. 

Anyways, basically, cars are going to get way more expensive, and base models will become increasingly cheaped out on. The automakers are caught between co2 per mile fleet average penalties etc and competition to provide bigger, nicer cars. Plus, the emissions laws are written by a bunch of idiot lawmakers who pull a number out of their ass with no idea what it will take to achieve it... AKA, "you must have 20% less NOx by 2012", and then the engineers have to come up with all these ridiculous and expensive systems to hit that goal (Urea injection, particle filters, etc). Most of the time they are just trading one type of emissions for another anyways. 

Anyways, bottom line is that we are all screwed, and that vw's timing chain design was origonally half assed. :laugh:


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

VW was in it's peak sales and performance when they sold the Golf GTI, GTI 16v and to some point the G60. They were super popular for their endurance and trade in value was awesome.

With all the electronics these days the cars run on a thinner line, which is great as long as it doesn't break.

Just my 2 cents....


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Yep agreed lol. I just feel that emissions don't matter if you ignore the fact that these cars are just too heavy to do what we want. Building cars out of composite materials is the future for sure. We only build heavy cars today because the same factories have been building these cars for decades. I don't care if they get more expensive, I could afford it if I got 100mpg.

I don't necessarily agree the cars have to be more expensive though. If you can literally pick the frame of a car up, fuse/mold it together, why does there need to be a factory? You could assemble cars at dealerships damn near. Pre-fab if you will. Can't remember his name, but a guy out in Colorado basically doing exactly this. His biggest obstacle? Getting the car manufacturers to dismantle/shut down their big metal car building factories that pay them VERY well.

If VW was half of what they used to be, they would reinvent the hatchback all over again just like they did before I was born.

Sry bout the off topic. I spoke my peace and rant for the day. The timing chain issue just really makes me question what VW has been doing more closely than ever before.


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## PetrosVW (Dec 29, 2003)

*VICTORY!!!!*

I finally took my wife's car into the dealership. They confirmed my worst fears and said it would cost $2800. I called VW of North America and politely voiced my issue with paying for the repair, that the failure was premature (chain should last 100k), was a design problem, *I mentioned that I reported a noice while the car was in warranty and it was dismissed as normal to that motor*, that I have talked to several people with the same problem, I have a garage with a 45 year VW master mechanic, and my local car club puts on the largest attending car show is the USA. The girl told me she could not do anything because it was out of warranty. I told her that I know she is following policy, but I would not accept that answer. I asked for her supervisor and explained everything again to her. She told me a regional customer care case worker would contact me. When the regional worker called me back, she said *the cost of repair would be covered in full*.


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## legitcobra (Jul 3, 2011)

PetrosVW said:


> *VICTORY!!!!*
> 
> I finally took my wife's car into the dealership. They confirmed my worst fears and said it would cost $2800. I called VW of North America and politely voiced my issue with paying for the repair, that the failure was premature (chain should last 100k), was a design problem, *I mentioned that I reported a noice while the car was in warranty and it was dismissed as normal to that motor*, that I have talked to several people with the same problem, I have a garage with a 45 year VW master mechanic, and my local car club puts on the largest attending car show is the USA. The girl told me she could not do anything because it was out of warranty. I told her that I know she is following policy, but I would not accept that answer. I asked for her supervisor and explained everything again to her. She told me a regional customer care case worker would contact me. When the regional worker called me back, she said *the cost of repair would be covered in full*.


My dad's 2.0t with 166,xxx miles was blew the cylinder heads. He brought it to a friendly dealer they REPLACED the entire thing for free covered by VW. My father hadn't changed the oil on his 2.0t in 100k miles either haha. He most likely blew the heads due to user error. VW still fixed it all for him. Love VW.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

You think our 2.5s are bad? My bro has less miles on his 06 Gti then I do and a few months ago his cam follower went and tore apart his head, which in turn bent valves and basically ruined a perfectly good motor. Had to get the whole engine replace because some of the metal made its way into the block and contacted the pistons. The older 2.0ts are wayyy more unreliable engines the the 2.5s, granted they are FI so there are more things that can go wrong. Still, the only major issue with our engines is the timing chains and guides in the earlier engines which sucks, but it could be worse. I wish VW would start fessing up and admitting their mistake but maybe theyll come around when more cars start ending up in their dealerships needing a timing chain replaced prematurely. I hope that if mine goes anytime soon I can talk them into replacing it cause I sure as hell dont have that kinda money to spend right now. Figured Id get my chains done when the clutch starts to go since the tranny needs to be pulled anyways. Get an upgraded clutch and fix the problem before something bad happens. Still, its a bummer I even have to worry about this problem in the first place:banghead:.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

the 2.5 has 1000 advantages over the 2.0.. fsi and TSI... and yes, its way too much more reliable.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

65K is where you'd be replacing the timing chain on many other VWs especially the vr6. At least VW bothered to fix it in later models. Suck it up and well welcome to the wonderful world of german cars

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Uhhhh...what? Can you explain to me what Vws youre talking about that have their timing chains or belts replaced at 65k cause I dont know of any, especially a Vr6? Vr6 timing chains go well over 100k before they even start making any noise usually. 2.0 8v is recommended around 85k, same with the 1.8t I believe but that doesnt mean it needs to be done. They will and can last longer but its better not to push it with a belt. Alls I said is that it sucks that some of us with the earlier engines have to worry about the chains going bad prematurely because of a design flaw that VW fails to recognize, not really complaining about it. This motor has been great and Im sure will be for many more miles to come. I know all about owning German cars alright, thats all Ive ever driven since I owned a car and thats all my entire family has ever owned.


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## RedRumGTI (Dec 6, 2003)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> 65K is where you'd be replacing the timing chain on many other VWs especially the vr6. At least VW bothered to fix it in later models. Suck it up and well welcome to the wonderful world of german cars
> 
> Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


Normally the rubber timing belts have service intervals of 60-80k. Chains usually last at least 100k, and its usually the crappy plastic guide that dies first, causing the chain to stretch. I don't know where you heard vr6 chains weren't reliable, but that is wrong . I've seen vr's with chain noise at 200k plus that started at 90k and it still didn't jump timing.


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## PetrosVW (Dec 29, 2003)

I too have owned nothing but German cars as well as my family. I have owned all kinds of german cars: VW, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, and Audi. Timing chains should last 100k. I agree that cheap plastic guides are the problem that causes the eventual stretch and failure of the Timing Chain. I am glad that I was able to get VW to take care of the problem, however, it took persistance on my part and not taking "no" for an answer.


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> 65K is where you'd be replacing the timing chain on many other VWs especially the vr6. At least VW bothered to fix it in later models. Suck it up and well welcome to the wonderful world of german cars
> 
> Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


That's a bunch of BS. Early VRs had an upper tensioner rail that could wear out and on mine (an early-style) it was just starting to wear through at 125k. Later VRs had an improved upper tensioner rail and could last even longer before any issues. Chain issues on VRs are way more overrated than people make them out to be.


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## gl_volks (Sep 19, 2011)

I get the feeling this 2.5L is a somewhat over-rated issue as well, to say its "consistently" an issue with 05.5 & 06 models would imply that nearly every unit sold is experiencing failures. This seems to be more a case of a few failures and then news spreads like wild-fire and everybody joins in on a lynch mob. 

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying VW should do nothing with the cases of chain related issues, i agree that it should be covered in full should it happen, and that some of these failures are happening prematurely. But to say it is a rampant issue with every vehicle is going a little far.

I'll also admit these stories do have me a little paranoid with my Jetta but i have had no issues thus far and i'm not babying it just because of possible issues.

My 2 cents, if you're paranoid, pop your upper chain cover off and take a look or go have it checked out. And like previously stated in this and other threads regarding this, if you buy new chains and guides to do a timing chain job, you're getting revised pieces so the issue won't occur again.


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## kingrick570 (Nov 30, 2010)

I'll sign...130k miles and engine light just came on....dealerships says stretched chain. Thought the chains are better then belts?? Chains are suppose to out last he car??? [email protected]&t......


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

kingrick570 said:


> I'll sign...130k miles and engine light just came on....dealerships says stretched chain. Thought the chains are better then belts?? Chains are suppose to out last he car??? [email protected]&t......


 Yeah, no kidding. I'm at 140k km and mine is going.


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## Ark83 (Apr 26, 2012)

I was at 86K miles when mine went. I am currently in the process of getting it repaired. 

I would gladly sign a petition.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

tchilds said:


> Its amazing how VW builds amazing economy motor offered across the board, the TDI, and not one person cares.


 the problem with the TDI though is it's price. i'd trade my rabbit in a split second for one of the 2010+ golf TDI's but they're so damn expensive at around $23K without accessories such as leather. i spend about $250/month and up in gas for my job, but the difference in my monthly car payment wouldn't be able to justify the money saved on gas....:screwy:


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