# S3 top speed with APR tune



## Morepower (May 10, 2015)

Not sure if its been posted but i havent seen it. 185mph is pretty crazy for just having an intake, tune and downpipe.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Holy smokes!


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

1st the video of the bloke in UK doing 0 to 60 in 3.14 seconds, now, this German dude going 178mph top speed???? What is the deal with the S3??? My APR stage 2+ tuned TT-RS is feeling insecure being parked next to my Stage 1+ S3 right now... I hope these runs were done going downhill with 100mph tailwind, LOL. TT-RS performance for 2/3 the price! I love it!:thumbup::beer:


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## Morepower (May 10, 2015)

Where do you get 178? 299kph is 185.7mph. But I agree that the S3 is faster then it should be in every way, the power to weight ratio does not match up with the times and speeds its putting out lol


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

Morepower said:


> Where do you get 178? 299kph is 185.7mph. But I agree that the S3 is faster then it should be in every way, the power to weight ratio does not match up with the times and speeds its putting out lol


My bad. I was thinking of what I got to, I mean someone I know got to, on my TT-RS before having to back off, in a non disclosed Highway somewhere in the USA... lol. I don't know how much was left on the car, if any, but just ran out of straight road to keep my, I mean his foot on it... I remember it was getting close to factory redline as well...

Now an interesting tidbit. MTM TT-RS with 424HP topped out at 185MPH, which is also about 100lbs lighter and I believe has lower drag coefficient than the S3. So how does an S3 with supposedly 360hp(apr stage 1) with 100lb+ extra weight get to 185.7mph??? I guess one trick he could have used was to run really short tires, to throw off the speedo, but in any event, Very impressive this S3... I'm glad I picked one up last year!


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## Morepower (May 10, 2015)

He says his power at the beginning it works out to about 390hp and 424 torque its probably stage 2. Also they actually have the exact same drag coefficient of 0.30 but it still doesnt add up with weight and all. Maybe gearing?


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Morepower said:


> He says his power at the beginning it works out to about 390hp and 424 torque its probably stage 2. Also they actually have the exact same drag coefficient of 0.30 but it still doesnt add up with weight and all. Maybe gearing?


Weight has almost no impact on maximum speed. Also, coefficient of drag is multiplied by frontal cross sectional area, which the tt would also have lower, I would think.

Only possibility is that the torque curve on the tt-rs can't keep pulling to redline in 6th.... but that doesn't seem right either. But perhaps a tt-rs gears just don't go that high, so it hits redline in 6th at a lower speed?


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## ERTW (Jan 17, 2000)

Morepower said:


> Not sure if its been posted but i havent seen it. 185mph is pretty crazy for just having an intake, tune and downpipe.
> 
> [/video]


If you use the published gear ratios for the S3 with the 19in rims it would seem that the speedo on the car should read 300km/hr at 6900.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

ERTW said:


> If you use the published gear ratios for the S3 with the 19in rims it would seem that the speedo on the car should read 300km/hr at 6900.


Oh, another possibility: This is a dyno run. You know, no air resistance to matter?


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

araemo said:


> Oh, another possibility: This is a dyno run. You know, no air resistance to matter?


the way his phone is moving, I'd say not a dyno run.
which reminds us to say, what an idiot for going that fast with only one hand on the wheel.
slightest problem and you're flipping. deer, pot hole, etc.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

RyanA3 said:


> the way his phone is moving, I'd say not a dyno run.
> which reminds us to say, what an idiot for going that fast with only one hand on the wheel.
> slightest problem and you're flipping. deer, pot hole, etc.


One 'hopes' that if it is full motion on stock wheels that that's a prepped runway or something else similar.. but I've been on the internet long enough to know it might be as you're suggesting.


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## jasso86 (Sep 22, 2010)

There's a picture in Mexican FB groups of the speedo of a stage 2 CUPRA (same engine as the S3) doing 301 km/h (187 mph)


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## turbo slc 2.9l (Dec 4, 2003)

I didn't realize the gearing on the S3 allowed this kind of top speed!!
This guy might be on the autobahn but not sure??


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

Morepower said:


> He says his power at the beginning it works out to about 390hp and 424 torque its probably stage 2. Also they actually have the exact same drag coefficient of 0.30 but it still doesnt add up with weight and all. Maybe gearing?


So, my TT-RS at 178mph still had a few hundred rpms left to redline(and a few hundred more to cutoff, since I have APR stage 2+ tune), if I recall correctly. I wasn't exactly starring at my rpm gauge at that speed lol. So my top speed was not limited by gearing, and I am not sure how much more speed there was to be had, since I ran out of road. My TT-RS with the tune on 93 octane makes 430+hp & crap load more torque than my stage 1+ S3, so I just can't figure out how this guy got 185mph+ from his S3...


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## Morepower (May 10, 2015)

CbutterK said:


> So, my TT-RS at 178mph still had a few hundred rpms left to redline(and a few hundred more to cutoff, since I have APR stage 2+ tune), if I recall correctly. I wasn't exactly starring at my rpm gauge at that speed lol. So my top speed was not limited by gearing, and I am not sure how much more speed there was to be had, since I ran out of road. My TT-RS with the tune on 93 octane makes 430+hp & crap load more torque than my stage 1+ S3, so I just can't figure out how this guy got 185mph+ from his S3...


Well who knows maybe you could have hit 190+ if you had the road for it . A stage 2+ S3 shouldnt be able to hit 185 I agree, but it also shouldnt be able to pull 3.1 0-60s and 11.8 quarter miles but that seems to be the case lol. The car is just a freak.


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

Morepower said:


> Well who knows maybe you could have hit 190+ if you had the road for it . A stage 2+ S3 shouldnt be able to hit 185 I agree, but it also shouldnt be able to pull 3.1 0-60s and 11.8 quarter miles but that seems to be the case lol. The car is just a freak.


LOL! It was a struggle just trying to get to 180, let alone 190... Not to mention, I prolly won't live to talk about it... You are right in that I think the S3 is a freak too. :screwy:
I'm not complaining, but I really think my TT-RS is feeling a bit insecure parked next to the S3 in the garage. Every upgrade I did to the S3, the TT-RS made me feel guilty, so I had to get her some upgrades too. I still think the TT-RS will perform better at the road course track than the S3, but for $20K less money, the S3 is a better value IMHO. I'll get a chance to see just how close the S3 is at the track. I've already set the baseline in the TT-RS at Arizona Motorsport Park last week, and I'll be going back in the S3 for the next event. :thumbup:


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

CbutterK said:


> LOL! It was a struggle just trying to get to 180, let alone 190... Not to mention, I prolly won't live to talk about it... You are right in that I think the S3 is a freak too. :screwy:
> I'm not complaining, but I really think my TT-RS is feeling a bit insecure parked next to the S3 in the garage. Every upgrade I did to the S3, the TT-RS made me feel guilty, so I had to get her some upgrades too. I still think the TT-RS will perform better at the road course track than the S3, but for $20K less money, the S3 is a better value IMHO. I'll get a chance to see just how close the S3 is at the track. I've already set the baseline in the TT-RS at Arizona Motorsport Park last week, and I'll be going back in the S3 for the next event. :thumbup:


No comparison on the track! TTRS ftw.


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## Morepower (May 10, 2015)

The TTRS should definitely be faster on the track its lighter, better balanced and the center diff is more rear biased I believe. Now if its not...then we'll for sure that there's some magic happening with the S3 lol


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

Morepower said:


> The TTRS should definitely be faster on the track its lighter, better balanced and the center diff is more rear biased I believe. Now if its not...then we'll for sure that there's some magic happening with the S3 lol


I hope you are right, so I can justify to myself why I spent extra $20K on the TT-RS vs the S3. Although, from what I understand, the Haldex in the TT-RS, even with the race controller, can only send maximum 50% to the rear. The New gen haldex on the S3 I've been told, can send up to 80% to the rear(forgot where I got that info). From my back to back driving experiments on the same road, I can certainly confirm the S3 turns in quicker, and feels a little more responsive. That said, I think the TT-RS has better ultimate grip(I ran same size tires on both cars). I just installed rear sway bar & did minor weight reduction on the TT-RS, so that should help some. I ordered the P3 vent gauge for both cars, so I can verify some of the data. I can't wait to test the S3 on the same track with the TT-RS! I might take both cars & run them back to back!


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

CbutterK said:


> I hope you are right, so I can justify to myself why I spent extra $20K on the TT-RS vs the S3. Although, from what I understand, the Haldex in the TT-RS, even with the race controller, can only send maximum 50% to the rear. The New gen haldex on the S3 I've been told, can send up to 80% to the rear(forgot where I got that info).


No, they're basically the same as far as possible torque distribution. Both can _technically_ route 100% to the rear... if the rears are hooking up well and the fronts are on ice/rollers. ;P The maximum steady-state rear torque distribution is 50%, on both the TT-RS and the new S3 and the new TT-RS.



> From my back to back driving experiments on the same road, I can certainly confirm the S3 turns in quicker, and feels a little more responsive. That said, I think the TT-RS has better ultimate grip(I ran same size tires on both cars). I just installed rear sway bar & did minor weight reduction on the TT-RS, so that should help some. I ordered the P3 vent gauge for both cars, so I can verify some of the data. I can't wait to test the S3 on the same track with the TT-RS! I might take both cars & run them back to back!


The differences are likely due to specific chassis setup plus software on the haldex unit. And supposedly the TT-S and RS3 both are even better tuned than the S3 when it comes to turn-in and haldex torque distribution for dynamic situations.


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

araemo said:


> No, they're basically the same as far as possible torque distribution. Both can _technically_ route 100% to the rear... if the rears are hooking up well and the fronts are on ice/rollers. ;P The maximum steady-state rear torque distribution is 50%, on both the TT-RS and the new S3 and the new TT-RS.
> 
> 
> 
> The differences are likely due to specific chassis setup plus software on the haldex unit. And supposedly the TT-S and RS3 both are even better tuned than the S3 when it comes to turn-in and haldex torque distribution for dynamic situations.


Interesting! So you can confirm your statement as fact? If that is the case, will I be able to get my current TT-RS to feel more like the S3 just by installing the race controller for the Haldex? I haven't invested in the race controller yet, cause I wasn't sure that the difference was worth the $900 price tag, and I haven't exactly seen bunch of TT-RS owners raving about it yet.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

CbutterK said:


> Interesting! So you can confirm your statement as fact? If that is the case, will I be able to get my current TT-RS to feel more like the S3 just by installing the race controller for the Haldex? I haven't invested in the race controller yet, cause I wasn't sure that the difference was worth the $900 price tag, and I haven't exactly seen bunch of TT-RS owners raving about it yet.


I posted some links in a long thread here about the haldex system.. But yes, they still can at most link the front and rear diff input shafts together 1:1, which amounts to a 50% torque split if both front and rear wheels have the same amount of grip. During acceleration however, the fronts tend to have less than the rears due to weight transfer, so you might end up with a more realistic 40/60 front/rear torque distribution while haldex is locked up during hard acceleration. The thing to remember is that you can only actually distribute as much torque to a wheel as it takes to break that wheel free from the ground. So, even though the front wheels are turning at the same speed, they aren't necessarily getting a full 50% of the torque, if the rears are still resisting spinning freely (assuming the haldex clutchpack is fully locked up... which isn't the case as often as we would like in stock form, if the videos of Golf R launches w/ wheelspin are any indication).

As for whether the race controller will make it feel 'more like the s3', I don't know - I have never driven a tt-rs nor have I driven one with that mod.

Everything I've read about the aftermarket haldex controllers has been great though - even on the S3, I would be seriously looking into something that makes it work more like the new TT-S or TT-RS/RS3.


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

araemo said:


> I posted some links in a long thread here about the haldex system.. But yes, they still can at most link the front and rear diff input shafts together 1:1, which amounts to a 50% torque split if both front and rear wheels have the same amount of grip. During acceleration however, the fronts tend to have less than the rears due to weight transfer, so you might end up with a more realistic 40/60 front/rear torque distribution while haldex is locked up during hard acceleration. The thing to remember is that you can only actually distribute as much torque to a wheel as it takes to break that wheel free from the ground. So, even though the front wheels are turning at the same speed, they aren't necessarily getting a full 50% of the torque, if the rears are still resisting spinning freely (assuming the haldex clutchpack is fully locked up... which isn't the case as often as we would like in stock form, if the videos of Golf R launches w/ wheelspin are any indication).
> 
> As for whether the race controller will make it feel 'more like the s3', I don't know - I have never driven a tt-rs nor have I driven one with that mod.
> 
> Everything I've read about the aftermarket haldex controllers has been great though - even on the S3, I would be seriously looking into something that makes it work more like the new TT-S or TT-RS/RS3.


What I most noticed about the TT-RS is the understeer at trail braking, and understeer at full throttle pulling out of the apex. I feel as though if there was a bit more power pushing from the rear vs pulling from the front, the car will feel much more neutral. I'll def have to look into the Haldex controller, but for some reason, they don't recommend the race only controller on a street car for the TT-RS. BTW, are there already aftermarket Haldex controllers available for the 8V S3? I haven't been able to find one yet.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

CbutterK said:


> What I most noticed about the TT-RS is the understeer at trail braking, and understeer at full throttle pulling out of the apex. I feel as though if there was a bit more power pushing from the rear vs pulling from the front, the car will feel much more neutral. I'll def have to look into the Haldex controller, but for some reason, they don't recommend the race only controller on a street car for the TT-RS. BTW, are there already aftermarket Haldex controllers available for the 8V S3? I haven't been able to find one yet.


Not yet. I hope they start showing soonish. It's also been confirmed that the haldex hardware on the TT-S is identical, but the either software or calibration is different, so it might be possible to just reflash the haldex unit, or swap out just the control unit to get better behavior from the S3's. And the RS3 is supposed to have different software AND calibration, but I haven't seen a confirmation that the actual haldex coupling is identical or if it is a beefier version.


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