# 16vT megasquirt install



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

just thought id share, and im sure more technical discussion will come up here than in the g/j2 forum.
some pictures
























huge thanks to my buddy ethan for helping with the wiring
and heres duffmans diagram that we used, for future reference

















its still a little ways from actually running the car, but the work left is mostly wrench turning (mainly fitting the tps throttle body), the wiring is 99% done


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

Weren't you running it on Digi 1 at one point? How did that work out? What kind of power are you looking to put down? Good luck!


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

what are the specs on your motor, dude? 
i take it you're using the hall sensor/bosch module setup?
-drew
btw- nice background on the laptop


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## BubbleBLOCK (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

looks good holmes... nice diagram! Saved it for future reference. Keep us updated. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (BubbleBLOCK)*

the motor is a 1.8l 16v with a t3/t4 50 trim.
also, experiencing some issues with setting up spark control. not sure if its the diagram or one of the components in the system, still working through it.
we have the ignition side of things wired as per midnightgli's diagram in the MS conversion post, and were closer now...but still not resolved yet.
anyhow, progress progress








oh yeah, and it did run digi1, didnt quite work out as i had planned as far as getting a chip, so now im eliminating that part of the equation










_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 7:28 PM 10-16-2005_


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## golf198 (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

what ignition are you goin to run i have my EDIS4 in a box in the garage


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (golf198)*

im gonna run factory vw stuff


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

what issues are you having with setting up spark control?
i had a bitch of a time getting spark to work right, but dont let it get ya down, once it's running ur gonna love it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

we arent getting a tach signal to the ecu, but the hall does get 0 and 4v as the windows go by...and the middle led on the ecu isnt lighting up as the windows pass. have some ideas though, well figure it out, its just time consuming to troubleshoot sometimes.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

the input to ms has to be between 5 and 12 volts, attach a 1k pullup resistor to that sumbitch and you'll be golden http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

where am i adding the pullup resistor? the hall signal?
also, the hall signal is seeing 0-4v at the ecu even, and on the relay board, just doesnt wanna show up on the tach signal...so the resistor is there because it has to see 5v?


_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 7:11 PM 10-17-2005_


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## mk1gti turbo (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

I used the vw ign setup and fed the hall sensor with 5v, no problem







. Is it a config problem?.
Steve.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (mk1gti turbo)*

^^^ thats interesting, ive read in multiple places on msefi.com that the tach pin has to see at least 5-6 volts before it will actually recognize anything.
looks like im gonna have to go searchin for sources, haha.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

NJRado, what does your codebase and functions menu look like...
particularly the FIDLE function. and you have your ignition wired with midnightgli's diagram right?


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

im driving spark off of led 17, so my codebase/outputs are as such:
Distributor (msns) = MsnS
Fidle function = Idle control (should be spark if you're wiring spark to it)
Led 17 = spark output 

everything else is in that menu is set to the default values. My ignition _is_ wired using midnight's diagram, with slight differences being that my spark output is led 17 (to X11/pin 25), and im sending the hall sensor signal to x13/pin29 rather then midnight's suggested pin 25. its the same thing, just with different input and output pins. 
i'll email you my .vex files in a few, i had a pretty busy day today and didnt get to it man. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

yeah thatd be rad if you could send those when you get a chance


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

you have maps and an .msq file http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

awesome, got em http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
hopefully be putting a conservative version of that map to use this weekend








and hey is your 16v a 2l or a 1.8l?


_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 9:24 PM 10-19-2005_


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## Rd_Warrior (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

Man, I sooo need todo this....i'm getting sick of my damn motronic


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Rd_Warrior)*

have you figured out the ignition issue yet? i just recently got mine working again after trying to convert to MSnS -e, the car ran like crap so i converted back to regular MSnS and it's flawless (a little low speed drivability issues, but thats all). looking at your diagram, i'm concerned about how your board is jumpered... and i would also run the hall + out of the ign module and not from the relay board. what is your current condition?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (MidnightGLI)*

right now we have the ignition related things wired as per your bosch ignition module/vw hall diagram
this one








havent had a chance to play with it at all, but figured out why the led wasnt showing anything (it wasnt set in the codebase and functions menu







duh! ) but not sure if thatll fix the no tach signal thing. njrado and others have suggested putting a resistor in and upping the hall signal to 12v, havent tried that yet, but thats really the only hold up at this point...not getting a tach signal, despite seeing 4v at the ecu ignition pin (forget which)


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

your tach signal comes from the hall sender, and when it is wired directly into the ign module like factory then you don't have to worry about pull resistors or any of that crap. if you aren't getting a tach signal with the everything wired exactly as i have, then you either have a software/code issue or something hardware related. make sure your board is jumpered like mine or like someone previously said using LED 17, but the way your diagram had it was quite funky.


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## Mk1Power (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

That would be sweet to pull it all off with stock ingition...by buddy built a CRX with a turbo's JDM GSR motor using stock ingition and Neptune re-flashing of the STANDARD ECU and just cranked out 605 whp on a standard block with the "floating" honda cylinders and all!! Straight T4 and 3.5 inch exhaust and about 30 psi!


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## Mk1Power (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Mk1Power)*

BTW gotta give my friend props....they still mess with VW's from time to time, as thats where they started out....check out the site. http://www.epictuning.com. Spread the word.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Mk1Power)*

were gonna try reflashing the ecu and loading it the first time around with the proper settings. and double check our wiring







hope to have everything figured out this weekend.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

let me know if i can help in any way... too bad your not doing this next feburary, i'll probably be in the PNW by that time.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (MidnightGLI)*

my 16v is a 9a, 83.5mm bore
midnightGLI- so you do have to run a pullup resistor if you run the dizzy straight to the tach pin, but you dont with your diagram? sorry to dwell on this, but i wanna have my info right.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

all i did was take a factory CIS k-jet ignition module AND harness and cut the signal wire from the hall sender and send that to the MS board then connected the ign module side of the hall sender wire to the other MS pin. the ign module is run off both sides of the coil (as does CIS from the factory). i did not use a pull up resistor and haven't had any tach or rpm issues. now this may be because i'm using the full ign harness and not a hacked up mess, i don't know, but i'm running the car exactly as shown on my diagram.
PS: make sure your D8 diode is jumpered or if removed make sure it is still jumpered, you need bypass that diode.


_Modified by MidnightGLI at 2:18 PM 10-20-2005_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (MidnightGLI)*

so heres the latest...
i double checked that i have everything wired as per your black and white diagram. everything checked out fine.
im getting 5v at the jumpers in the ecu with the key on, i have the FIDLE function set to idle control, the leds set to squirt, irq trigger, and acceleration respectively...all the jumpers are correct, i verified this a couple of times...
not sure what else to check? im gonna try swapping ecus, but this thing worked perfectly when tested a while back...


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

your FIDLE function should be set for spark if you have it wired per my diagram. if you need to run an Fidle valve you can wire it through your LED 17, but that requires a change in the board modifications.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (MidnightGLI)*

ok, ethan came back over and we changed that to spark output as well.
also reflashed the msns -e code and reloaded my settings.
no difference


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

did you keep LED set for spark output or did you change it back to default? what is the car doing? is it just cranking? sputtering?


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

are you running a relay board, or is it straight to the ecu?
xg1 and xg2 are not jumpered together, right?
^^^ i dont think he had LED set to spark output to begin with. 


_Modified by NJRrado at 12:17 AM 10-21-2005_


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

i must say i have no experience with the relay board, so that may be creating an issue... have you checked out msefi.com for some support, their search function sucks a fat one, but it's better than sitting there with one finger in your nose and the other in a stinky dark place... i know the feeling all too well.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (MidnightGLI)*

well....im an idiot
while we were switching from duffs diagram to midnightglis we left the vref for the hall unhooked...so its been that all this time haha
thanks for ALL the help though guys







sorry about being so oblivious...i was afraid if something so simple...


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

the simple ones are always the most annoying, but relieving at the same time.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (MidnightGLI)*

haha definetly.
certainly felt like a dumbass after that haha but were pretty close now to getting it started.


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## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

cool, i'd recommend CrackerX's fuel table and my ignition table for your initial startup. should be pretty much bang on (except for your +100kpa range







)


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (MidnightGLI)*

mines a 1.8l so it might be a bit different but ive set up the fuel and spark based on your guys' tables and ive got pretty high hopes. well have a wideband on it so it should be all set to go tuning once it actually fires up


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## E60 (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

sweet thread.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (E60)*

haha, its always the simple things.
wideband makes it nice and easy to tune http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

how's it goin, man. you got this thing runnin yet?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

hey indeed i have http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
we did some road tuning last sunday, and now im waiting for another dry day to take it for a spin again.
seems pretty quick, and the fuel and spark curves are giving pretty awesome a/f readings. so im quite happy with http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
also plan on getting it on the dyno here at school in the near future, so i can do some more indepth tuning and maybe get some numbers










_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 1:41 PM 11-3-2005_


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

sweet, numbers are good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif glad its all workin out for ya.


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

so do i need to change something in my diagram?
let me know, i have it saved as a .PSD in seperate layers so i can change it somewhat easily to keep it updated.
got a link to the spark table, and the fuel table? i could probably put those values into a single image for people....one image to look at to wire and fill in the tables.








and i should mention that i haven't personally used my diagram VCG posted, i just followed everybody elses diagram and talked to Paul (Need_a_VR6) about it, did it up, then had ANOTHER guy ([email protected]) inspect it, who's done multiple MSnS setups himself, said it should be good to go w/ my jumpers (he actually turned me onto the D5 jumper)...i'm still in the process of putting mine together...


_Modified by Duff Man at 6:03 AM 11-4-2005_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Duff Man)*

yeah actually...heres the fuel table








and the spark table








as far as changing stuff on the diagram i think you should set up the jumpers as per midnight's diagram and see if anyone has problems with it after that.
also maybe mention that i had to make a jumper on the relay board at the fuel pump relay, to pass the FIDLE signal from the inputs on the relay board, to the db37 cable.
also, its entirely possible that we messed something up using your diagram, what would be really nice is if someone just tried to do it again to see if they can get it to work for them.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

should also mention that thats basically my first draft of both the fuel and spark







so some of the more extreme values on each have yet to be fine tuned...but theyll definetly get your car started, and give you some safe a/f values


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## RcrVdub (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

This is some nice info in here...I'm learning as much as i can to do this on my own in the coming months.


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (RcrVdub)*

is that an N/A table or boost table?
either way, i'll incorporate them into the diagram.
...what i'm maybe wondering is if you guys combined the two and had the problems, a friend of mine on the east coast (parasight on here) did that same thing, and had problems himself....but i've had 2 different MS "experts" tell me it should be good to go.
and if i'm not mistaken, wasn't something left out of midnights jumpers? didn't he leave out the XG1-XG2 jumper having to be cut? if so, that should be updated on his diagram ....


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Duff Man)*

here's how [email protected] described it to me....he was the guy at WW w/ the green gti, 16vT w/ a huge front mount on it, didn't run it cause he had some other problems, but brought it for the helluvit...

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Duff,

The best way we've found just happens to be the easiest with the least wiring and mods.

The board mods go as follows:
Remove XG1-XG2 jumper
Jump JP1-8 (bottom pin closest to C2) to the non stripe side of D5 nearest the DB37.
Jump XG1 to X11 (or whatever free pin you want to ues) X11=pin 25, X12=pin 27, X13=pin 29. 

Your old tach wire (pin 24) will now be your 5v REF and will connect to the + side of the hall sender. Whatever pin you jumpered XG1 to will be your signal from the hall sender.

The FIDLE pin will be used to run the module. Your diagram looks a little screwy with the FIDLE pin running to both the module and the coil. All I can say is wire it like this:

http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/E...c.jpg

The default settings in the latest version of the Extra code fired the car up first crank and the timing light confirmed it's right on. 


so maybe that will help explain a few things about my diagram.








edit: where he talks about my FIDLE lead going to the module and coil, there was a jump in the diagram, not actually having them connected, but i corrected the diagram so as not to get confused....the diagram he was referring to was one of my first ones that has since been altered.


_Modified by Duff Man at 3:51 PM 11-4-2005_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Duff Man)*

That fuel table is REALLY rich in boost, don't be suprised if you get some misfires at first until you tune it down! Spark table looks nice and conservative though.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_That fuel table is REALLY rich in boost, don't be suprised if you get some misfires at first until you tune it down! Spark table looks nice and conservative though.

yeah, it jumps to around 9.9 or 10.5 or so under higher boost. its pretty rich but its safe for the time being, just reallly need some drier weather to run it around more...
edit, and duff, those are both boost tables but the NA sides of each should be all good to go


_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 10:55 AM 11-4-2005_


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

the NA KPa reading should only go to what, 100?
...i dont have my laptop to open up all my notes and dont remember.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Duff Man)*

yup, 100








so both table up to 100 should be near perfect for a stock-ish 16v


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## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

Our green GTI has been running great for several months on the instructions I gave Duff while back, which is pretty much what his diagram shows. I wasn't too excited about the hall sender running on 5v, but it works.
Just for fun I wired one with the Midnight diagram the other day. I just did the board mods and gave it a test spin on the drill motor megasquirt dyno. It's hard to verify the spark output is 100% perfect when it only fires one plug on the coil output but it was rock stable to the eye at 300rpm. Another turbo 16v wired








For those who can't tell, the board mods between Duff's diagram and Midnight's are the same, they just happen at different spots on the board.


_Modified by Euro Nation at 7:09 AM 11-5-2005_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Euro Nation)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Euro Nation* »_For those who can't tell, the board mods between Duff's diagram and Midnight's are the same, they just happen at different spots on the board.

thats good to know, i certainly didnt notice. we must have messed something up in the process and probably mixed up and combined the two somewhere...so that it didnt work.
good to know though


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## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

My Ve`s are in the 170`s to 180`s on 1 bar boost (510cc/min injectors), from reading on the MS forums they shouldn`t be over 130`s? Maybe a wierd quirk with the 16v engines under boost?
I used a 1kohm resistor to pull up the tach in (24) line on my virgin MS to 12vRAW and ran the hall with normal 12v input and it`s been rock steady.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (KeithMac)*

care to post a screenshot of your VE map?
ive got smaller injectors though so it makes sense that my numbers are slightly larger...i just really need some dry weather to spend an afternoon tuning, and to drive it to the dyno haha


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## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (KeithMac)*

Sound like the Req Fuel might be a little off. In our GTI, at 250kpa we're looking at VEs around 125 with an A/F of 11.5:1. Our Req Fuel was off by .1ms from what the calculator on Megatune said it should have been.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Euro Nation)*

i guess that would make my 175+ VE values absurdly high then huh


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_i guess that would make my 175+ VE values absurdly high then huh









Yep, see my post about 10 up


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (need_a_VR6)*


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## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*









This is mine, my whole setups a bit quirky with the kent cams (72kpa at idle..). I`ve stayed with the req-fuel calculator as I was waiting on some injectors for a while and needed to do some tuning before hand, suppose I could alter the req-fuel now if I feel the need.


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## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (KeithMac)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KeithMac* »_








This is mine, my whole setups a bit quirky with the kent cams (72kpa at idle..). I`ve stayed with the req-fuel calculator as I was waiting on some injectors for a while and needed to do some tuning before hand, suppose I could alter the req-fuel now if I feel the need. 

Wow...


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (KeithMac)*

damn, thats got some interesting high and low spots up top, whats the story with the 0s down low?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_damn, thats got some interesting high and low spots up top, whats the story with the 0s down low?

The 0's are probably DIY overrun fuel cut, I remember people doing that before the decel fuel cut was in the code.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (need_a_VR6)*

huh thats pretty cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vdubberpimp (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

boo its ugly and slow http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (vdubberpimp)*

Yeh, i can`t get mapdot working properly and installed it without a TPS, overrun fuel cut works well







.
Table looks a bit crazy but it acually drives really well now, never understood why I couldn`t get the digi1 tuned in at idle but when you realise the MAP`s 72kpa you understand why!
It`s a bit odd having cruise values 20 to 30 kpa lower than idle but you get used to it








Haven`t had the 65mm pulley on for long so the 200kpa row is a bit on the rough side at the moment.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (KeithMac)*

oh ok, makes sense now, no tps.
are auto passat throttle bodies even harder to find over there?


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_are auto passat throttle bodies even harder to find over there?

Don't know, but 5cyl audi throttle bodies are easy to get, and they're the same http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Could be a problem with getting the tb inlet from the wedge shape of the passat one to a round inlet for boost tubing, I don't know if the passat tb has a detachable inlet like the g60/CIS 16v body?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (martyn_16v)*

no it doesnt, i ran into trouble with that on my car, but i had an extra g60 round adapter laying around that i sort of bolt to it


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## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

3" to 2.25" w/ a 50* bend to it (could be bent slightly more to reach 90 i bet)..a 3" hose fits over the TB's oval shape...


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Duff Man)*

ah, thats good to know. maybe ill swap to one of those when i get a chance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BoostFactory (May 27, 2005)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

how do you like the megasquirt so far?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (BoostFactory)*

its awesome. i cant even describe how much of a difference in drivability there is between i and the digi...granted i never had a chip but its just awesome to know exactly what the motors doing and that i can change anything at will.
also, needavr6 was right, it has some rich misfires under higher boost







hits around 9.5-10 afr and misses once in a while...so it needs some tuning, but its already fast enough to scare the crap out of me haha.
i just need to figure out the blow off valve flutter and get a softer spring for the wastegate. but so far, im incredibly happy with the results http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

this may have been posted somewhere above, but how much boost are you runnin?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (NJRrado)*

11-12 psi


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Duff Man)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Duff Man* »_3" to 2.25" w/ a 50* bend to it (could be bent slightly more to reach 90 i bet)..a 3" hose fits over the TB's oval shape...









Or you could get your fab on like I did for a customers car...








~80 degree bend, all steel, transition from 2.25 - 3" tapered oval. I even bead rolled it











_Modified by Euro Nation at 11:27 AM 11-9-2005_


----------



## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

i bet that was fun to bead roll. haha


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Euro Nation)*

the problem with using the oval tb inlet is no matter the design, the flat parts will always be suseptible to boost leak since it has very little clamping force in that area, not to say it doesn't work, it's just a definate weakness of the design.


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (MidnightGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightGLI* »_the problem with using the oval tb inlet is no matter the design, the flat parts will always be suseptible to boost leak since it has very little clamping force in that area, not to say it doesn't work, it's just a definate weakness of the design.

Very much so. And I thought about it for quite some time before building the charge pipe you see above. The way I figure it... if it leaks, I'll cut off the elbow and sell it, then machine the lip off the Passat throttle body and bolt on a TB plate from an Audi 5000 Diesel.


----------



## Duff Man (Jan 16, 2003)

i'm really diggin the bowl of banana's next to the small collection of turbo manifolds.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (Duff Man)*

Hey ValveCoverGasket, got my car running on your spark map today, not bad! Had some knocking at 2k rpm (mine hits 10 to 13psi there), dropped the advance a couple of degrees and it seemed to cure it.
Cheers for the table







, it`s save me a lot of time (had a nightmare thrying to get the car to run on spark..).


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (KeithMac)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KeithMac* »_Hey ValveCoverGasket, got my car running on your spark map today, not bad! Had some knocking at 2k rpm (mine hits 10 to 13psi there), dropped the advance a couple of degrees and it seemed to cure it.
Cheers for the table







, it`s save me a lot of time (had a nightmare thrying to get the car to run on spark..).

13psi by 2000rpm?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

hey not a problem. yeah id imagine itd knock a little at 2k with that map as mine has just barely starting boosting there


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (Euro Nation)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Euro Nation* »_
13psi by 2000rpm?









Sorry, 13psi by 2100 rpm







,


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

crazy superchargers


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (Euro Nation)*








, I lied actually it`ts 11.76pis..


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

what kind of a/f are you getting under boost?
and care to post a pic of your new modified version of my spark map


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

With the 42lb`ers at 4bar I`m in the 11.5`s, on the safe side.
I`m having a few problems with the spark side of it at the moment, Trigge Angle is set to 0 (whick gives me correct timing with fixed angle), I know I need to be in the 60 to 70 region but can`t work out how to get it there? (maybe firing off the wrong window in the dizzy?).
Any comments, how far to move the dizzy and in which direction would be helpfull as my brains fried at the moment







.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

at the top of crackerx's motoronic to ms post i beleive it lists midnightglis guide to setting trigger angle. this is what i followed and its worked, i also beleive its on the msns -e webpage under ignition options, near the bottom of the page.
5 or 6 pretty easy steps


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Well nothing`s easy when I`m involved







, I`ve got the dizzy wired to the tach in pin 24 and it seems to be invering the signal, I`m apparently running in next cylinder mode? Going to check the rotor position at the weekend and if it`s acceptable the wirings staying put!


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

11/16/05, 2:15PM Euro Nation Motorsport births another turbo 16v on Megasquirt. Idles great, revs great. Time to tie up some loose ends and get it on the street.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Euro Nation)*

are you allowed to grace us with the specs of that one?







what kinda car is it in?


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Car specs:
Clean '88 GLI 16v. 1.8L 16v, 60/.63 T3, log manifold, 2.5" downpipe, 2.25" charge pipes, 25x6" frontmount behind the grill.
MS specs:
V2.2, midnight diagram, 025g6 extra code.


_Modified by Euro Nation at 5:23 AM 11-17-2005_


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Euro Nation)*

sounds like fun http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif seems to be a lot of 16vTs popping up in the northwest lately


----------



## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

how's the stock ignition in the higher boost levels?
Anyone running edis?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (VW_NUT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_NUT* »_how's the stock ignition in the higher boost levels?


i had mine upto 14 or something psi a few times a little while back. seemed fine...it was running a tad too rich so there was some misfires, but all that aside i think the stock ignition is fine for right now, at least for my purposes. ive since turned the boost down to around 6psi and im gonna work my way up to around 10 tuning little by little and probably leave it alone until better weather.


----------



## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

I don't supposed anyone here is running MS II with msd? Is anyone running MSII?


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (VW_NUT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Euro Nation* »_
Very much so. And I thought about it for quite some time before building the charge pipe you see above. The way I figure it... if it leaks, I'll cut off the elbow and sell it, then machine the lip off the Passat throttle body and bolt on a TB plate from an Audi 5000 Diesel.

The above tube and crazy merge work perfect. No leak and no popping off at 11psi thus far.

_Quote, originally posted by *VW_NUT* »_how's the stock ignition in the higher boost levels?
Anyone running edis?

25psi and 7000rpm with no ignition breakup on a stock CIS-E coil and module with V2.2. Plugs gapped to .030.
I ran EDIS on my old ITBed Rabbit. If I still owned the car I would eliminate the EDIS module now that they have the wheel decoder working and VB921s to fire the coils.

_Quote, originally posted by *VW_NUT* »_I don't supposed anyone here is running MS II with msd? Is anyone running MSII?

MSII means I can't run extra code








One day I'll need the resolution for idle, but right now I'm having too much free fun.


_Modified by Euro Nation at 8:17 PM 11-22-2005_


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Euro Nation)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Euro Nation* »_
MSII means I can't run extra code










if i recall midnightgli switched to MSnS -e from MSII for that reason


----------



## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Yep you can`t beat the Extra code, updating the firmware to 027a2 and I`v rigged a Tip122 in for FIDLE control, see if I can get my isv working off the MS..


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

right now i'm running the basic MSnS code, i tried MSnS -e a few times and i could never get the car to run right with it and i have no need for the added features right now, so i just said screw it. and i'm not upgrading to MSII for the same reason, more complexity with no real advantage to my particular setup and needs.
btw, here is an update of the diagram that i made a while back. hopefully some of you find it helpful.


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

Put engine at TDC, point rotor at notch, set trigger angle to 60, turn key, check timing, smile, walk away.


----------



## MidnightGLI (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (Euro Nation)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Euro Nation* »_Put engine at TDC, point rotor at notch, set trigger angle to 60, turn key, check timing, smile, walk away.

you sir are correct, unfortunatly 95% of the people on this board will look at you like you are speaking french if those are the only instructions you give. sometimes you gotta hold their hands until they are old enough to pay attention to traffic...


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (MidnightGLI)*

haha euronation is definetly correct.
thanks for updating that diagram midnight, pretty nice having all of that in one picture now


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

EDIT: oops, posted in the wrong ms topic


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

yeah theres a few


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

i am also runnin a megasquirt on a turbo 16vt need some help makin a fuel map


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (highbeam)*

theres a couple posted in this thread


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

would that work with my application?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (highbeam)*

absolutely thats what ive got on my car, and numerous others on vortex are running MSnS -e on 16vTs....


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

i have a 3bar map in my ECU will that fuel table work with it and currently using 42lb lookin for either 630cc or 750cc havent decided


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (highbeam)*

the fuel table is motor specific, you change the actual pulsewidth values in the constants menu to suit what injectors youre running.


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

ok but the kpa % on the side stops at 215 and mine stops at 304. 
I am new to tuning but i build alot of motors


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (highbeam)*

even 215 is SUPER rich, that map has since been significantly toned down...


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

the map on page 2 has been toned down?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (highbeam)*

yup, only the fuel map though.
subtract nearly 10 points or so off of almost everything in the upper right hand corner


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

do you have any coldstart programs(warm-up wizard)?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (highbeam)*

i do. but you what you can try is just using 100 on the bottom one, then for every box go up by 10 percent. thatll get you a decent rough warmup map.


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

what size injectors are you using? VCG


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (highbeam)*

42# at 3.5bar


----------



## highbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

ever dyno? or 1320?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (highbeam)*

havent gotten a chance yet.
our dyno at school is kind of blocked in at the moment


----------



## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_sounds like fun http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif seems to be a lot of 16vTs popping up in the northwest lately









thats a funny quote! just as i was reading through the thread all i can think is damn, when i put in my MS 5 months ago people were stoked on it, now they are actually doing it! between myself and a few friends , there will be about 8 more cars running a form of MS with all kinds of different ****! 
nice work man, hope to see you and your ride zippin round


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (VWralley)*

yeah my buddy got his rabbit going around the same time and got me excited about MS, and earlier at the end of the summer i got the parts ordered for this thing....its a revolution


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (Euro Nation)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Euro Nation* »_Sound like the Req Fuel might be a little off. In our GTI, at 250kpa we're looking at VEs around 125 with an A/F of 11.5:1. Our Req Fuel was off by .1ms from what the calculator on Megatune said it should have been.

just reading through the thread again...and wondering if we could maybe get a screen shot of that cars spark and fuel tables, for future reference


----------



## tmechanic (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (ValveCoverGasket)*

OK Guys I have a question, is it possible to set up the MS for Sequential Port injection?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (tmechanic)*

Yes, but it is not in the standard code and there are a few heavy circuit mods. It will be much easier to implement with UltraMegasquirt when it comes out, but what they are trying to do with UltraMS is extremely difficult from the Comp Engineering point of view. Also, IIRC the efficiency gains of sequential port injection become negligible above 3000 RPM on our little 4 cylinder motors...
All of the other benefits of MS more than make up for the sequential port pains...


_Modified by GTIMan82 at 2:35 PM 1-2-2006_


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (tmechanic)*

Currently there is no implementation of sequential injection for megasquirt. They are working on what's called the GPIO board which will, when it's finished, support for 8 injector drivers and 8 coil drivers, giving capability for up to 8 COP's and sequential injection for 8 cylinders. This is in the early production phases and will not be done for a little while. Read msefi.com for all the info you could ever want.


----------



## kalvinlk (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: 16vT megasquirt install (tmechanic)*

Currently there is no implementation of sequential injection for megasquirt. They are working on what's called the GPIO board which will, when it's finished, have support hopefulyl for 8 injector drivers and 8 coil drivers, giving capability for up to 8 COP's and sequential injection for 8 cylinders. This is in the early production phases and will not be done for a little while. Read msefi.com for all the info you could ever want.


----------



## killercoupe (Dec 12, 2005)

How much did this setup end up costing you, if you don't mind me asking. I am working on a very similar project and was going to use digi 1, but i am starting to have second thoughts after reading this thread. Also,Is megasquirt very hard to install/set up?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (killercoupe)*

super easy to set up.
grand total for megasquirt parts was about $200


----------



## Euro Nation (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (VWralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_thats a funny quote! just as i was reading through the thread all i can think is damn, when i put in my MS 5 months ago people were stoked on it, now they are actually doing it! between myself and a few friends , there will be about 8 more cars running a form of MS with all kinds of different ****! 

There's three in my driveway right now, another in the garage that's getting it, I'm helping three other friends with theirs. So yeah... PNW-MS represent


----------



## killercoupe (Dec 12, 2005)

What kit should i buy and where should I buy it from?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (killercoupe)*

diyautotune, rsautosport, and glensgarage all have almost everything you need.
id get the wiring harness kit from rsautosport for sure, but other than that, where you get the rest of the stuff is up to you and how much work you wanna do...check out all three places


----------



## killercoupe (Dec 12, 2005)

What version are you running? I was considering ms1 v2.2, do I need anything extra for spark control? Is there anything special I need to add with the basic kit? 

Do I need the Relay board or can I do without it? Is that what you used with your setup? Thank you for being so helpful.










_Modified by killercoupe at 12:56 AM 1-4-2006_


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (killercoupe)*

im using MSnS -e on a 2.2 board, and the relay board. the relay board makes life easier when running the wires and a cleaner install IMO...i hvae the board on the drivers side of the rain tray, then the computer on the passenger side where the fresh air intake would normally be for the heater box.
youd be fine with a v2.2 board, just have to make a couple extra solder connections to run spark, download the free upgrade to MSnS -e and youre set


----------



## Simplistic87Scirocco (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

yes, definetly a great thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif !
i'll be running MSnS on a 2.2 board on my 2.0L16V Lysholm charged project soon (I hope) @ 14-16psi, greentop 440's, VW ign., 3.5bar FPR. 
So I would guess these maps would be close enough for my application too huh?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Simplistic87Scirocco)*

youll need them to be richer under boost in the lower rpms than mine are. much richer id imagine


----------



## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Kinda back from the dead, I know, but there is a ton of great info in this thread. How has the car been running VCG? I think between you and a few other very helpful people here on Vortex, I may just be joining the MS revolution very soon. I've been reading through the big online MS manual, and it sounds pretty complicated, but I'm sure I can figure out tuning it when the time comes. I'm mostly worried about figuring out the big picture, which version I should be going with to control fuel and spark, and how I would go about that. Learning a bit each day before I jump in, but I think the idea of tuning my own car, and not having to have a new chip burned everytime is a pretty valuable thing. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

its an extremely valueable thing to be able to control everything about the way your car runs, and its just something thats nice to know.
these are the carbs of the future








the cars running fine, i blew out one of the welds on my wastegate flange (long story, manifold is great though just some other stuff happened) and the weathers been horrible here for the past month or so, but the car runs fine. still havent had a chance to drive it with the new suspension though








im too busy at the shop to get around to fixing it...but hopefully this weekend


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Hey guys, 
I just finished installing my wiring haness in the car and gave it a go!
We started our project car and it almost catched. We decided that maybe we did something wrong with the harware check-up, so after reviewing duff's man wiring diagram we decided to copy it. 
Here is what we did: 
XG1 'cut' XG2 
Jumpers: JP1-8 (bottom closest to C2) to D5 
X11 to Xg1 
Then it started smoking, and we can no longer get any response from the MS computer. 
Any idea what we did? 
BTW, we are runing MSnS-E... 
Thanks guys/gals...


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_Hey guys, 
....Then it started smoking, and we can no longer get any response from the MS computer. 


The MegaSquirt ECU started smoking? Sounds like you let the magic smoke out (read: friend the CPU or something else on the board). Time to get out the multimeter.


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_Hey guys, 
I just finished installing my wiring haness in the car and gave it a go!
We started our project car and it almost catched. 
Then it started smoking, and we can no longer get any response from the MS computer. 


so im confused, you tried to start it and it almost caught...and then you converted to spark? how was it sparking before?
really hard to say what you fried without being there...but since it smoked, something had to have started burning, so take the computer apart and see what looks burned. thats where id start


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Everything was set-up for MSNS-E by the previous owner, but it looked different then the setup suggested by Duff man. So we figured we would try duff man's setup, and it fried something.
Nothing is visibly burnt on the board.

One question. 
Duff man suggests...
Here is what we did: 
XG1 'cut' XG2 
Jumpers: JP1-8 (bottom closest to C2) to D5 
X11 to Xg1 
And MIdnight GLI suggests...
Jumper x11 & XG1
Jumper Pin 24 & JP1-8 (hole closest to word JP1)
Cut XG1 -XG2 jumper
Coil no longer goes to pin 24

Which one is right?










_Modified by cdn20VALVE at 3:00 PM 2-6-2006_


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

they both should do the same thing.
we initially had problems not getting duffs to work but that was because i didnt have the 5vref hooked to the hall







but it would have worked fine.
also to check your ecu now, id double check that its getting 5v to the main chip, i made a post about this on the msefi forums and they said what pins to check on the ecu...IIRC it should see 5v on pin 20, 1 and 40...i wanna say


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Where is pin 24?


----------



## GTIMan82 (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*

Im not sure cause I cant test the board but it sounds like you possibly put the output to the ignition control module to a ground thus frying the ECU.


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (GTIMan82)*

It looks like the problem might be in the power supply. From what we tested. When we jumpered D5 we must have allowed current to come through the veh wiring harness and begin melting something in the power supply circuit. I'm gonna have to go over my veh wiring to make sure everythign is in order. I have a feeling it's the ignition wiring...







Like GTIman is suggesting above.


----------



## omegablue333 (Nov 25, 2002)

*Re: (cdn20VALVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cdn20VALVE* »_Where is pin 24?

Before pin 25 and after pin 23...


----------



## cdn20VALVE (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (omegablue333)*

lol. I igured it out. I just didn't understand where to actually properly plug my jumper. But I think I got that figured out. I think.


----------



## Sid-Rage (Jun 15, 2004)

sinces this seems likt " THE THREAD " for turboing 16v's..
i need some help.. i just got a 16v and im looking into working on it for fun..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...36141
any help would be greeeeeeeeeeat =]


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Sid-Rage)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sid-Rage* »_
any help would be greeeeeeeeeeat =]

get a real turbo first.
and a bump onto the first page, because people keep IMing me asking about megasquirt...


----------



## Sid-Rage (Jun 15, 2004)

im not looking to rebuild the motor for major power because its just not what im in the market for in the mk2 right now..
if i wanna go fast i got the other 4banger, but thanks for the help.. your great VCG


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Sid-Rage)*

if youre in the market for a cheap turbo setup start shopping around for a t3 off of a saab or volvo. its so much easier to find manifolds for those, and you wont regret bolting it onto your motor...
anythings better than that peashooter k03


----------



## Sid-Rage (Jun 15, 2004)

how much boost can a stock 16v really take?


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Sid-Rage)*

its not about boost, its about efficiency. psi is meaningless
but anyway, talk to killa about power numbers on stock 16vs








or lemme put it this way...more than your tranny ever will


----------



## Sid-Rage (Jun 15, 2004)

thats why i was thinking of a peashooting k03...
lol i was just looking for something to do with my spare parts that would give the car a little kick..
any help would be good.. thanks


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Sid-Rage)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sid-Rage* »_thats why i was thinking of a peashooting k03...


that was my reason for you to not do it









but yeah, its doable, find a manifold, and make it happen. the manifold and the downpipe are gonna be the toughest bits to find


----------



## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

OK, I haven't read all 5 pages yet. Please don't hurt me for cheating...
I now have my 2.0 16v block for the turbo project I have been thinking of doing for like 2 years now. I'm a slow mover. Anyway I'm considering the 20v head hybrid simply because the manifolds are easier to get for that head, and the ehad already has coil pack integration.
The Question:
Considering I would install MSnS for this type of motor, how much of the original ECU and wireharness will I need to keep? Is MS at the point of completely replacing the ECU? Is it possible to run my own wireharness? That would be ideal.
Thanks.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*

if you want to run msns, you wouldnt need any of the original engine harness. only assorted sensors and plugs leads. you can then either buy a "universal wireing harness" that places like diyautotune or rs-autosport sells, or make your own. you cant run a distributor (as i think you already know), and im not sure if megasquirt supports individual coilpacks yet, maybe somebody else could chime in about that. so you could be looking at a ford edis4 setup.


----------



## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

So then most of you guys here have been running a distributor set-up?
Thanks NJRrado for the bit. I'll go to the MS forums and read on about the edis4 coils. Aaaand, so you all feel better about me, I read all 5 pages now.







<-- proud Canadian
My turbo'd Passat syncro dream lives on, one small step at a time...


----------



## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*

yeah, im perfectly happy with the distributor


----------



## project83GTi (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

phenominal thread







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

If I end up with a 20v head, I don't want to be playing with riggin up a block mount dizzy. So I have to figgure out what option I'd prefer...
16v head on 2.0 block using a dizzy.
20v head on 2.0 block using coil packs.
Perhaps I should start out with what I know... 16v heads and distributors. I have a few extra 16v dizzies to play with. Maybe I'll move up to coil packs after I get my feet wet. Baby steps right? Besides, this motor will liekly be at least a year off in the making as I'm expecting having to move this year. Moving costs $$$.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*

getting this one back up top.
and some pictures to boot.
















it runs









keep the megasquirt revolution going http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

did some road tuning a few weeks ago, took some fuel out. it keeps getting faster, and its only at 6psi








if anyones curious i can keep posting fuel and spark maps as we tune
too busy these days to really drive it much, or get it on the dyno, but itll happen eventually.
id like to have it tuned reasonably well at ~10psi before dynoing it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
in the hopes that we can do some pulls at 10psi and then at spring pressure (6psi) to maybe show the difference.
anyhow, one of these weekends


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

here are some updated maps.
and a bump to maybe get more new peoples questions answered


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## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Interesting VE table you`ve got there, similar to mine with the 170`s at higher boost.
I`ve gone down to a 68mm pulley, at 15psi (65mm) I`ve had to use quite a low igntion advance which obviously saps power, will see what it can take with the 68mm on there, for my engine at least more boost doesn`t equal a faster car!


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

Have people had decent success with street tuning? Is there any "right" way to do it? Or just drive the car, pull over, change some things, and keep going?


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## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_Have people had decent success with street tuning? Is there any "right" way to do it? Or just drive the car, pull over, change some things, and keep going?

it helps to have a friend datalog while you drive


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KingofNod* »_Have people had decent success with street tuning? Is there any "right" way to do it? Or just drive the car, pull over, change some things, and keep going?

thats how weve been tuning those maps.
go out, find a nice flat straight road in the county and have at it.
its not too hard as long as youve got a couple hours to kill, a buddy in the passenger seat and a wideband


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Do you just put it in 4th and floor it all the way up to as high as you wish to tune till? They usually dyno cars in 4th right? I will be using Wideband (already have it actually, just waiting on my ECU/harness). Do you just try to nail it so its as close to 14.7 or stoich at WOT in a certain gear as possible? 
Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I'm trying to learn some tuning basics before my stuff even gets here, so I don't roast my motor doing something stupid.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

use whatever gear, the dynoing thing is only for the gear ratio to be close to 1:1
under load youre shooting for around 12.5 or so, cruising and idle can be 14.7 or even leaner really for low load cruise. basically you want to turn off the accel enrichments, use hills and your gears to hit (and hold) as many points on the map as possible, then dial each one in. this gets tricky though because theres only so much space on public roads, and its tough to hold full load and redline for very long


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Yeah, I just read the entire "Tuning your Megasquirt" section of Megamanual. Cleared a few things up, but confused me on some stuff. Setting the idle/cranking settings sounds somewhat complicated. It didn't mention too much about ignition however.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

for ignition check out the MSnS -e homepage, and the first few parts of this thread. midnight glis new diagram basically has everything you need to know on it


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

bump for more megasquirt cars


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## golf198v2.0 (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_bump for more megasquirt cars
















ill be testing my friends and be installing one on his audi 90 in prep for a 10v turbo .


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (golf198v2.0)*

I got problems







http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=17812


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (tyrone27)*

You guys running TPS_dot or MAP_dot for accel enrichment? Seems like the latter is more appropriate for a 16vt, but all the "gouge" settings I have for threshold and bins are for TPS_dot.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

tried both with the same effect. acceleration is at 0 value.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

im running tps dot for accel enrichment. i tried tuning mapdot once when my tps died and it proved to be very difficult, so i just scraped it and fixed the tps. 
then again, im borderline retarted when it comes to setting accel enrichments. i never seem to get them quite right


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

accel enrichments are really kind of a bandaid to cover a not quite perfect VE table.
im running tps-dot...never really tried to map dot stuff because im happy with the tps. ideally you should tune with the accel stuff turned off, or on a dyno at WOT using the load control to hit different points, and then once the VE table is real real close, just turn on a hair of accel enrichment.


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## KeithMac (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

I don`t run accel enrichment, the car drives fine witthout it. In the code when Mapdot is used it just substitutes the TPS values so some of the tables may still show TPS?.


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (KeithMac)*

Finally got my car running a week ago after being off the road for two years. It ran surprisingly well, though slightly rich on top. My NB breather belched oil all over the windshield (hood is still off), and the lack of muffler was deafening. I spent the weekend re-engineering the crankcase breather system and fabbing a 3" exhaust -- looking forward to getting it back on the road to finish the break-in and start tuning. I can't believe the car actually RAN with an unproven engine, Digi harness removed, and new engine management. Thanks for ValveCoverGasket for the fuel/timing maps with which to start!
Question: the tach wasn't working during my first drive. I dug through the wiring diagrams in Bentley and found the wires from coil to Digi, Digi to fuse block, and fuse block to instrument panel. After searching the forums for a bit of confirmation, I connected U1/6 (which goes from the fuse block to the instrument panel) straight to coil (-). The tach works now, but it's jumpy and appears to read high. Any of you former Digi folks have a solution? How does the Digi ECU condition the analog signal from the coil? I wonder if it needs a low-pass filter or something -- an oscilloscope would be handy. Anyway, thanks for the help.
Jason


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

i took everything digi1 related out of the engine bay....im just running a tach signal right off of the hall sender. not sure how to help really...other than to offer that as a solution.
glad to hear you got it running, im having issues with my NB breather misting some oil under boost, what did you do to solve your problems?


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

I just took the wire (solid green on a Motronic car) that comes from the stock cluster, and ran it to the negative side of the coil, just like I had it with Digi 1. It reads the same on both my stock tach and on Megatune's, so I guess its okay. Although I wonder where MS gets its tach signal from? Hall sender? What if your not running MSNS?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

negative side of the coil if youre not running spark


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

My tach is just really noisy off the negative side of the coil -- I'll try running it off the Hall sender.
Regarding my breather setup, I tapped the block-off plate on the front of my PG block (same location as the breather on a 16v block but much smaller hole; formerly the base of the G60 mounting bracket) for a 1/4" NPT fitting, tapped the side of the valve cover for the same, and am running both to a mini catch tank from Jeg's. I also just got a windage tray in the mail today which I'll install at the first oil change (around 50 miles) when I check my rod bolts. We'll see how all that works. I probably won't run the NB breather anymore.


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## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

I recommend that you take the signal for RPM from the hall. I use this diagram for the MSnS units I sell for the 8 and 16V motors (this is for fuel and spark):


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (patatron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *patatron* »_I recommend that you take the signal for RPM from the hall. I use this diagram for the MSnS units I sell for the 8 and 16V motors (this is for fuel and spark):

Nice diagram Pat http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (patatron)*

There might be a bit of confusion regarding my original question. I'm running the MSnSe tach signal off the Hall sender -- no problems there. My factor tach on the instrument panel is the one that's noisy. Since the factory tach only goes up to 7000 rpm, its usefulness is limited, and I'm not too worried about it at this point. Just looking for some ideas.
Jason


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## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

excellent read !
im sure ill be referring back here when i get my MSnS ecu from Patatron http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (L33t A2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L33t A2* »_excellent read !
im sure ill be referring back here when i get my MSnS ecu from Patatron http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

let me know if you need a hand http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nitrodub16 (May 6, 2005)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

great thread







hope to get mine soon


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## golf198v2.0 (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (nitrodub16)*

ygpm *VCG*


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (golf198v2.0)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

bringing this back from the dead for some more screenshots.


























































bear in mind for anyone planning on using these, this is a 16vT with 42# injectors, running the stock distributor, stock MS MAP sensor, no IAC, v2.2 MSnS -e 0249, batch firing all 4 injectors only using one driver...
and the warmup and accel tables might be an ok place to start, but probably wont work perfect for a different car/setup, and you can tell the warmup hasnt been tuned in super cold weather anyhow...


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

just loaded a new spark map last night with AMAZING results.
more response, smoother delivery, and slightly faster spoolup. and im sure its making more power as well...
as soon as i get the wideband back on there ill be sure to post a shot of my new fuel map, and we might go ahead and add more spark as well.
tonight ill post the map i loaded yesterday. its a combination of martyn's NA 16v map from the SEM/itb forum, and a more aggressive on boost map i made up


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## AllCityDubs (Jan 5, 2004)

looking forward to updating mine then, aswell


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (SweetSixteen)*


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## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

is it just me or is that timing agressive at 100 kpa? Or is it ok because of you lower compression?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (VW_NUT)*

its really not super aggressive, i took the NA side of the map from martyn16v's map he posted in the carb/sem/itb forum, so applying it to my lower comp motor means i could probably go even a few degrees more before running into trouble...


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## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

you wouldn't happen to have a link to that map would you? I looked but only could find on that had 26 degrees at 100 kpa. The rest of the map looks great, I just though 34 seemed high. 
I'll have to save that one for when I get my MS'd set up working. Thanks a bunch for posting the info here, it really helps alot of us out.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (VW_NUT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_NUT* »_you wouldn't happen to have a link to that map would you? I looked but only could find on that had 26 degrees at 100 kpa

ill find one for you in a minute, its a map he made for his MS setup.
the map you found with 26 peak was the reverse engineered stock scirocco 16v map thats floating around here (thats what i was running on my NA sidebefore)
ill find a link to the thread.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

i cant even seem to find the post right now, but there was a huge 3 or 4 page thread about posting ignition maps in the carbs/sem/itb forum, and his map was posted in that thread. maybe try searching but i couldnt find the thread...


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

little update...finally got around to spending some time with this car...

we went out and tuned it to 10psi last night. and we pulled a bunch of fuel from the whole map. its pretty much dialed in now, and it even has a really lean low load cruise
i think theres still a little more fuel to be pulled from the lower boost areas, and a bit more from the 9-10psi range, but its not as critical as it used to be. the boost could probably go a few psi higher (im thinking of stopping around 12) but for now i think 10 is abusive enough on the drivetrain.
we were using the brakes to simulate even more load, when driving up hills in low gear, and that seemed to work really well...definetly the safest way to make 10psi on residential streets within the speedlimit haha
by the end of the night i think the clutch had had enough though (oem+ 16v sport clutch, was to be expected...) and it just started slipping like crazy around 10psi haha
might be alright now that its had a chance to sit overnight, but i dont expect it to last a whole lot longer. but the plan for the winter is to yank the tranny anyhow so a really stiff pressure plate and more hardcore clutch might be in order...also curious to see just how much clutch material has been removed in the few miles this car has actually driven. i have some more upgrade parts that have been sitting around that i plan on putting on over the winter as well, so itll be a good chance to clean things up and swap the tranny and whatnot.

with regards to my thread about the cooling system change: the cooling system seems to work quite a bit better. the temps were on the cold side when moving (it was pretty cold out last night though...) but im most impressed by the significantly quicker response to turning on the fan...its quite an improvement.
overall, new found appreciation for this car. never ceases to impress me whenever we go out and actually tune it. i keep meaning to get this thing on our dyno at school but the dyno keeps sketching out on me...hopefully sometime in the coming months well have it sorted out.
ill post some of the new maps in a second


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*









brought the accel enrichments down, and increased the TPSdot threshold, for better driveability around town...it responds a lot better now to very slight throttle input under low load.








leaner
















played with the spark a bit in the lower load transient stuff, drives a bit smoother in traffic. 

enjoy


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

Thanks for the post VCG. Haven't checked in for awhile. Getting ready to pull my GTI apart, because of rust. However, my new MKII will be getting the 16v (with some goodies), as well as my MS setup.


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

i fully condone the use of ms on 16v's!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (VWralley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWralley* »_i fully condone the use of ms on 16v's!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yay, approval


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## rocco858488 (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

good post


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (rocco858488)*

updates post haste


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (VWralley)*

vcg, you mind posting your latest msq file? thanks


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (chadr)*

some updates.
both maps are tuned up to their top row (215 kPa), providing ~12.5 AFR under boost


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

and....heres a dyno from sunday with these spark/fuel tables.








i think the intercooler is the biggest restriction at this point
edit, this was at 15psi, and i dont think its really going to make more power without some hardware changes, as the tune really cant get much better.
should be tearing it apart again to redo the intake plumbing and go through the whole car again soon. hope to hit the dyno with the new hardware and more boost by the end of summer










_Modified by ValveCoverGasket at 12:22 AM 7-10-2007_


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## twocamvw (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

mind me asking what you used for a fpr. might try the maps you posted to get mine running


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

What octane are you running with that timing map?
BTW, your VE map looks almost identical to the one I've been working on independently, which is an indication that I must be doing something right!


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (twocamvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twocamvw* »_mind me asking what you used for a fpr. might try the maps you posted to get mine running 

3.5bar fpr http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
the timing map was made for 92 octane, with something like 8:1 c/r


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## twocamvw (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

bump and mine ran the other day..


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## Junkyardrabbit (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: (twocamvw)*

watched topic


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## VWeezly (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: (Junkyardrabbit)*

PMed you... back from the dead?







haha... any updates brother?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (VWeezly)*

motors been out of the car for a while, im basically redoing everything but the internals (except cams, i did put in new cams...)
therell be updates soon though...im waiting on a couple of things to get done fabbing, then itll all get put together.


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

so to get it to spool faster you brought the fuel down and the timing up a little.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (2.0t mk2)*

right, the idea would be to get as much heat in as early as possible http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dogger (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

I am in the process of buying a 16v turbo engine and installing a Megasquirt. Just finished reading this entire thread and hope I can learn from everyone's experience.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (dogger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dogger* »_hope I can learn from everyone's experience. 


its probably worth noting that the world of MS has moved on a bit since this thread was started. its really not regular practice to jumper relay boards (and, in my opinion, to use v2.2 boards) anymore. but, theres still some worthwhile info in here.
id recommend going with a v3 board if youre getting started on a similar project


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

just bumped into this thread again while digging up some old info...
figured id toss a shot of the motor as it sat a couple weeks ago before i finished all the AN plumbing business...








its fun looking back over this stuff to see how far everything has come - including the MS setups!


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Now THATS Classy!


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_Now THATS Classy!









any more importantly... almost done!








wiring/electrical/dash is still left, which should go reasonably quick now... along with a whole new top of the line (for now! haha) ms setup.


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## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

What injectors are you running, and why feed the fuel rail in two spots? Am I seeing that correctly from the pic/is that what you're doing?
This makes me miss my old megasquirt ignition table/map. 034 is much less tunable in terms of ignition... you just get one row of values for MAP, one for MAT, and one for RPM, and from there it does a lot of interpolation. This does make for a little faster setup though. 
I think I'm gonna compare my setup to your IGN table as a guide for timing advance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (NJRrado)*

it has 1150lb injectors, so i figured id experiment with a dual feed rail... since you cant really get a -8 fuel rail without making something new.

_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_034 is much less tunable in terms of ignition... you just get one row of values for MAP, one for MAT, and one for RPM, and from there it does a lot of interpolation. 

thats what ive seen in the software... i guess it does make it a little more efficient to set up, but having 3d maps is better in any case


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## Amsterdam087 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

what a monster. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------

