# Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta



## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2006)

Shown first here on VWVortex are images of the upcoming new carbon fiber intake from Carbonio for the 2.5L Rabbit and Jetta. These images are hot off the presses with pricing, dynos, and availability to be supplied in the next few days. As with all VW / Audi products from Carbonio, these intakes will be distributed exclusively by APR.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

well......looks nice. missed a big market already though with people already ordering a ton of intakes from a small shop in canada. but...for those who havent ordered yet, this will be nice. i would have rather ordered this, but its too late now.


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## the.ronin (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_well......looks nice. missed a big market already though with people already ordering a ton of intakes from a small shop in canada. but...for those who havent ordered yet, this will be nice. i would have rather ordered this, but its too late now.

Hahah dude I don't think the Vortex 2.5L technical forums is necessarily indicative of the entire (or even a fractional piece) market potential for this engine.
I don't mean to be rude or anything. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_well......looks nice. missed a big market already though with people already ordering a ton of intakes from a small shop in canada. but...for those who havent ordered yet, this will be nice. i would have rather ordered this, but its too late now.

Carbonio has fit & finish far superior to almost anything on the market.







The shop in Canada has excellent pricing though.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (the.ronin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the.ronin* »_
Hahah dude I don't think the Vortex 2.5L technical forums is necessarily indicative of the entire (or even a fractional piece) market potential for this engine.
I don't mean to be rude or anything. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i didnt mean anything close to the big market...but nonetheless, a sale is a sale and a each one turns a profit and spreads product awareness.
i know u werent being rude, i just made my statement too broad.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (Slipstream)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Slipstream* »_
Carbonio has fit & finish far superior to almost anything on the market.







The shop in Canada has excellent pricing though. 

this is true, i wish i would have waited for this, but after waiting awhile (like many other people) i settled for what was available at the time. too bad i paid for mine THIS MORNING and then this gets posted up. such is life.


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## NaKoRuRu (Jun 5, 2005)

Looks nice... I'll wait for #'s and pricing...


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

ohh this looks promising, but will it cost us an arm and leg?


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## BlueMKV (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Shown first here on VWVortex are images of the upcoming new carbon fiber intake from Carbonio for the 2.5L Rabbit and Jetta. These images are hot off the presses with pricing, dynos, and availability to be supplied in the next few days. As with all VW / Audi products from Carbonio, these intakes will be distributed exclusively by APR. 












Love that you took pictures of the intake on a shadow blue MKV!!!









Prices???


_Modified by BlueMKV at 4:56 PM 1-30-2007_


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## Carbonio (Dec 3, 2001)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*

Thanks all for the positive feeback. As Andy from APR stated these images are BRAND NEW and were released as extensive testing completed last week. I know everyone will be asking like crazy for numbers but it will have to wait just a bit. I have loads of data on my desk and need to go though it in order for us to provide official performance numbers and a retail price. For now I will give away the following piece of information:
The VWpartsMTL is $250USD shipped and a K&N filter is an upgrade that costs extra over and above the $250. The Carbonio unit will retail in the ballpark of this intake and all kits will come with our USA made million mile warranty filters. This means you'll be able to have a real carbon fiber intake and keep both your arm and your leg.
One note: This is brand new and will not be on our website for a while. I thought I'd save you guys the trip. 




_Modified by Carbonio at 9:58 PM 1-30-2007_


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## Giancarlo (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: (Carbonio)*

Maybe this is a stupid question, but shouldn't that sensor that is on the "old" intake be conected to the new intake? just curious.


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## Carbonio (Dec 3, 2001)

*Re: (Giancarlo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Giancarlo* »_Maybe this is a stupid question, but shouldn't that sensor that is on the "old" intake be conected to the new intake? just curious.

No, its function is does not require it to be in the intake tract.


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## Giancarlo (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: (Carbonio)*

I thought it was the MAF sensor, but I guess it is not, what is it for? will we have numbers in about a week? how about a nice introduction offer for the vortex?


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (Carbonio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Carbonio* »_
No, its function is does not require it to be in the intake tract. 

kinda worries me about a potential CEL...
what do u have to say about this? the sensor is there for a reason and we all know how touchy VW drive by wire systems are with all of these sensors.


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## Carbonio (Dec 3, 2001)

*Re: (travis3265)*

Over 5,000KM of testing so far and no CEL and no codes. If it has not thrown a code (related to the intake) yet it never will.


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_
kinda worries me about a potential CEL...
what do u have to say about this? the sensor is there for a reason and we all know how touchy VW drive by wire systems are with all of these sensors.


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## subwoffers (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (Carbonio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Carbonio* »_Thanks all for the positive feeback. As Andy from APR stated these images are BRAND NEW and were released as extensive testing completed last week. I know everyone will be asking like crazy for numbers but it will have to wait just a bit. I have loads of data on my desk and need to go though it in order for us to provide official performance numbers and a retail price. For now I will give away the following piece of information:
The VWpartsMTL is $250USD shipped and a K&N filter is an upgrade that costs extra over and above the $250. The Carbonio unit will retail in the ballpark of this intake and all kits will come with our USA made million mile warranty filters. This means you'll be able to have a real carbon fiber intake and keep both your arm and your leg.
One note: This is brand new and will not be on our website for a while. I thought I'd save you guys the trip. 
_Modified by Carbonio at 9:58 PM 1-30-2007_

WOOT lets see dem numbers


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (subwoffers)*

Carbonio, I noticed you're from Toronto...you have a shop that I can swing by and pick one up?


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## huevosrancheros (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta ([email protected])*

This looks like it has potential. I want to see some dyno sheets. I love the look of it. It's either this or the AEM CAI. I am glad I was patient and waited.
keep up posted.


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## jetta2pointfive (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta (huevosrancheros)*

hhow was the carbonio intake for the 2.0T did a lot of people like it?


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta (jetta2pointfive)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2pointfive* »_hhow was the carbonio intake for the 2.0T did a lot of people like it?










__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









it only replaces the intake thingy all mkVs have and uses a panel filter replacement


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## husm (Sep 4, 2006)

updates??


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## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (husm)*

no updates as of right now, sorry. Please stay tuned, we will have updates and information shortly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Giancarlo (Aug 10, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_no updates as of right now, sorry. Please stay tuned, we will have updates and information shortly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Like TODAY? that soon? please!!!!!


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## docs jetta (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: (Giancarlo)*

I e-mailed Carbonio they said look for them in april http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jetta2pointfive (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: (docs jetta)*

any updates with the intake?


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## Green Hare (Oct 21, 2003)

*Re: (jetta2pointfive)*

any word on the hp gain, or did i miss that somewhere above?


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Elmer J Fudd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Elmer J Fudd* »_any word on the hp gain, or did i miss that somewhere above?

no, nothing yet!


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

those pics look awesome though. cant wait to buy one


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: (Carbonio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Carbonio* »_
No, its function is does not require it to be in the intake tract. 

Intake air temp sensor?


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (M3NTAL Kev)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M3NTAL Kev* »_
Intake air temp sensor?

I'd put money on it.


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## RogueMotorsport (Mar 17, 2007)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*

still no hp/tq gains


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## wofljetta (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (RogueMotorsport)*

When is this going to be released?


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## Ultimateone (Apr 6, 2007)

bump


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (wofljetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wofljetta* »_When is this going to be released? 

supposedly, this month.... (April)


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## LightningBunny (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

right its never get LNT intake and its done and over


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## irvinerabbit07 (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta ([email protected])*

BUMP for some new info i really want this intake


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta (irvinerabbit07)*

Is it just me, or did they leave the stock 2.5 I5 airbox intact (albeit plumbing removed) with the intake underneath in those photos? When we get the Carbonio intake, can we just sorta, ya know, throw that dang stock airbox out??? Anyways, can't wait to give my bunny more hop with Carbonio!


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## huevosrancheros (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_Is it just me, or did they leave the stock 2.5 I5 airbox intact (albeit plumbing removed) with the intake underneath in those photos? When we get the Carbonio intake, can we just sorta, ya know, throw that dang stock airbox out??? Anyways, can't wait to give my bunny more hop with Carbonio!

if you do that you'll get a CEL, need the upper part for that sensor to stay on place.


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## the.ronin (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: (LightningBunny)*

Why can't they relocate that intake sensor further up the Carbonio intake?


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta (huevosrancheros)*


_Quote, originally posted by *huevosrancheros* »_
if you do that you'll get a CEL, need the upper part for that sensor to stay on place.

Didn't @[email protected] and some other guy tape theirs to the front grille or something like that and the CEL went away? Hell even if it does come on, can't you just purge that bih from the memory by disconnecting the battery or putting a piece of tape over your gauge cluster mang?


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: Images of New Carbonio Intake for 2.5L Rabbit & Jetta (huevosrancheros)*

what sensor are you talking about?
if you're talking about the temp sensor...just zip tie it in the engine bay somewhere, or on the front to keep somewhat of an accurate ambient temp reading on the cluster


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## jetbug (Aug 30, 2006)

do i smell group buy
wow that thing is a beauty, carbon is just amazing
blends right into engine bay, unlike those crappy ram airs that jut out


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (jetbug)*

















_Quote, originally posted by *docs jetta* »_Andy IM me and said it would be another 5 weeks










http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...46383


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

Where's all the *INFORMATION* about this thing? The soundclips and dyno like LNT and VWPartMTL have already provided despite having 2% of the resourses Carbonio has?


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## familydub (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: (@[email protected])*

where's the update?


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## scaldedhare (Mar 13, 2007)

bump for WHERE IS THIS INTAKE?!


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## blackoutjetta (Jul 3, 2006)

SOOO WHERE IS IT??


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## subwoffers (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (blackoutjetta)*

In my pants


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## docs jetta (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: (subwoffers)*

andy says 2 more weeks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## subwoffers (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (docs jetta)*

thats what they said 3 weeks ago 2 weeks ago before the first 2 weeks.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (docs jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *docs jetta* »_andy says 2 more weeks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








.................................


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## GRACO (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

"and availability to be supplied in the next few days" - January 30 2007 ...


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## windsorvr (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

boo


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## NaKoRuRu (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: (windsorvr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *windsorvr* »_boo

boo boo


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## flynavyj (Jan 26, 2007)

so they don't offer it eh?


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## Futrell Autowerks (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: (flynavyj)*

Expect to see an official update on the intake later today or tomorrow. Unofficially the intakes are on their way to APR for distribution, and we have one here- watch the top of the forum for sound clips and install notes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Futrell Autowerks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Futrell Autowerks* »_Expect to see an official update on the intake later today or tomorrow. Unofficially the intakes are on their way to APR for distribution, and we have one here- watch the top of the forum for sound clips and install notes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


yep, that's what Andy told me today! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Futrell Autowerks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Futrell Autowerks* »_Expect to see an official update on the intake later today or tomorrow. Unofficially the intakes are on their way to APR for distribution, and we have one here- watch the top of the forum for sound clips and install notes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
We're eager to see what info you guys have (and prices)!


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## the.ronin (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: (Slipstream)*

Awesome news. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I hope they found a way to integrate the IAT sensor rather than leaving it on the stock piping.


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## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (the.ronin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the.ronin* »_Awesome news. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I hope they found a way to integrate the IAT sensor rather than leaving it on the stock piping.

Yes, but I'm not sure if they're going to include that revision in the first batch, if not its a easy modfication.


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## the.ronin (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_
Yes, but I'm not sure if they're going to include that revision in the first batch, if not its a easy modfication.

Where would the IAT sensor go? I certainly hope not dangling by a zip tie.


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## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (the.ronin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the.ronin* »_Where would the IAT sensor go? I certainly hope not dangling by a zip tie.

Plumbed into the bottom of the main inlet pipe-








(its shown here flipped over so you can see it)
I just checked and all intake kits we'll be selling from the first run do have the IAT hole.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Dean F)*

more please! pics that is!


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## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

Pictures and sound clips will be up in our new buyers guide later today, possibly tomorrow morning. I'll share this one teaser clip with you:
http://futrellautowerks.com/videos/R2Mov.AVI
(right click save as and turn your speakers up!)


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_Pictures and sound clips will be up in our new buyers guide later today, possibly tomorrow morning. I'll share this one teaser clip with you:
http://futrellautowerks.com/videos/R2Mov.AVI
(right click save as and turn your speakers up!)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the.ronin (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_
Plumbed into the bottom of the main inlet pipe-








(its shown here flipped over so you can see it)


Now THAT's what I'm talking about!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
[edit] Just to clarify that video was an all stock Rabbit with the only mod being the intake?


_Modified by the.ronin at 5:44 PM 5-24-2007_


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## Rhabit (Feb 24, 2007)

Wow that sounds really good


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (Rhabit)*

this is going to be expensive....


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## the.ronin (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: (2point5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2point5* »_this is going to be expensive....

Actually, if I recall from a prior thread, Carbonio planned on pricing this fairly competitively with other intakes on the market at about $250.
Did I say $250? I meant $100. Yeah that's it.


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## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (the.ronin)*

The above video is intake and exhaust, however we have just exhaust video so you can counter compare the two. The buyers guide thread is almost complete, we'll try and get it up tonight, there's six videos in all.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## husm (Sep 4, 2006)

well it looks like this thing is finally out. $269


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## the.ronin (Feb 22, 2006)

*Re: (husm)*

Where are you seeing this? I don't see anything on the Futrell, APR, or Carbonio sites.
[edit] Got it - Futrell thread stickied at the top of this forum. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by the.ronin at 8:37 AM 5-25-2007_


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## scaldedhare (Mar 13, 2007)

If this really is out, and it is the real deal.. and of course, with a GB price of about $250.. I believe you've won my purchase.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (scaldedhare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scaldedhare* »_If this really is out, and it is the real deal.. and of course, with a GB price of about $250.. I believe you've won my purchase. 

Yeah. I may just say f*ck LNT.
How is the ease of install?


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## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

Its an easy install, shouldn't take more than an hour. You can order using the link at the top of the forum. Don't expect any group buys anytime soon, there's far more demand than supply. Have a good Memorial day weekend guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JZoidberg (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: (Dean F)*

What link? The apr one? Don't see any product info.


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## Futrell Autowerks (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: (JZoidberg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JZoidberg* »_What link? The apr one? Don't see any product info.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3254223


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

what are the fuel trims at on cars you have tested these on?
(block 032)


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_Don't expect any group buys anytime soon, there's far more demand than supply.

Neato. Is there a long backorder?


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## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

We have nine left presently.
We haven't ran any data logs on our car, if there was reason to (a problem/CEL) we would but we haven't had any reason to thus far.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_We have nine left presently.
We haven't ran any data logs on our car, if there was reason to (a problem/CEL) we would but we haven't had any reason to thus far.

No doubt, but you're using the stock MAF, so unless the intake flows poorly, I'd venture to guess your fuel trims aren't stock...


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_We have nine left presently.
We haven't ran any data logs on our car, if there was reason to (a problem/CEL) we would but we haven't had any reason to thus far.


You only log when a CEL comes one?, man I log anytime I change anything on a car. how long have you had this intake on the car. And please let us know what block 032 says, the second # (long term fuel trim). Im going to guess in the mid to upper teens...with short blasts up into the twenty's...


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## ahson (Jul 23, 2000)

I will wait till some proven numbers before I buy it.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

I'm an ass.........
I just assumed as part of modding / tuning a vehicle a company that builds parts like this would look at #'s to see if there's any harm being done.

Thankyou magilson.
***Ok guys we have a shiny new part here.......it fits....no warning lights.... Just $270 and you can have one. 
Testing you say? yeah, we put it on a car.







****

Wow. I hope I'm wrong.
No offense to the guys creating and selling this.....
I just had an awakening.



_Modified by digitaltim at 8:23 PM 5-25-2007_


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_I'm an ass.........
I just assumed as part of modding / tuning a vehicle a company that builds parts like this would look at #'s to see if there's any harm being done.

Thankyou magilson.
***Ok guys we have a shiny new part here.......it fits....no warning lights.... Just $270 and you can have one. 
Testing you say? yeah, we put it on a car.







****

Wow. I hope I'm wrong.
No offense to the guys creating and selling this.....
I just had an awakening.
_Modified by digitaltim at 8:23 PM 5-25-2007_

Easy dude, they didn't create it. They are selling it. I generally trust products sold by APR (since I use them) but in this case I wonder a bit and I just want to see the fuel trim. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*

so given what I can put together --> if they are using the stock MAF....the sensor reading can't be accurate and it'd run Lean.
How would a cell appear in this case? exhaust sensor? Does it work like a feedback loop........meaning will it adjust the Air / Fuel ratio to compensate for the Incorrect MAF?

I wish I had the time to take classes....


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_so given what I can put together --> if they are using the stock MAF....the sensor reading can't be accurate and it'd run Lean.
How would a cell appear in this case? exhaust sensor? Does it work like a feedback loop........meaning will it adjust the Air / Fuel ratio to compensate for the Incorrect MAF?

I wish I had the time to take classes....

IF there is even a problem, it would be from the increased flow. With the increased flow (air) there needs to be increased fuel. On the stock tune and/or stock injectors the computer can only compensate for it so far, then it sets a CEL. That point happens to be 25%.
This correction is coming from the Primary oxygen sensor seeing a lean condition and correcting by adding more fuel.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*

The ECU in stock form is so used to seeing a lot of hot air going into the engine....due to the fact that the filter is on top of the engine.....when you switch to a CAI it now gets colder/more dense air...the O2 sensor will start to see the car is running a bit lean and the ECU will need to add fuel....The ECU takes what it sees from the MAF and O2 sensors the determine how much fuel to add...the Stock MAF sensor is so big that the velocity of air passing through it is pretty slow... so basically the ECU isn't seeing much air...but the engine is running lean says the O2...see the problem...O2 says give me fuel, MAF says why....I don't see much air coming in...it fights it self...
So if you make the MAF housing a little bit smaller in diameter, the MAF sensor will see more velocity which in turn it sees more air...With the sensor seeing more air the ECU will give more Fuel...

I hope that bulge in the pipe does something to speed the air up right before the MAF....but I cant see how since it gets bigger which would slow it down.......
Id like to see it tested at low altitudes as well...were the air is even more dense...


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## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
No doubt, but you're using the stock MAF, so unless the intake flows poorly, I'd venture to guess your fuel trims aren't stock...

Hi Matt, 
Sounds like your quite the aspiring automotive tech, congrats its a great field to be employed in. Let me clarify a couple of key points for you: Fuel trim tolerances are just that tolerances; if the 02 sensor and the MAF can manage the fuel trim levels within factory specifications thats all you need. There's no "stock" trim levels, if its within spec the ECU sees the system is functioning properly, if its out of spec and it can not adjust it within the designated parameter you'll get a check engine light and a fuel trim lean code (or rich code but thats another problem).
I haven't spent a great deal of time following the threads about other intakes for the 2.5L since they really don't concern me. I have seen the reports of CELs and fuel trim faults from those threads however and I'd venture to say nine out of ten are probably from basic design errors and installer errors. There's nothing incredibly unique about the 2.5L intake, one point of concern from a design standpoint would be making sure that both of the airpump provisions which are past the MAF are designed to engage their lines properly, any unmetered air getting sucked in through an improperly fitting connection would cause a fuel trim lean condition.

In regards to the size or the calibration of the mass air flow sensor the 2.5L uses the ME7 Bosch management system which has been in use for several years now, its probably had every kind of cold air intake system thrown at it, I can't recall a single scenario where the MAF would cause the system to run lean based on volume of air unless the sensor itself was placed in a larger housing than it was originally designed for. 
HTH-
Dean


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_
Hi Matt, 
Sounds like your quite the aspiring automotive tech, congrats its a great field to be employed in. Let me clarify a couple of key points for you: Fuel trim tolerances are just that tolerances; if the 02 sensor and the MAF can manage the fuel trim levels within factory specifications thats all you need. There's no "stock" trim levels, if its within spec the ECU sees the system is functioning properly, if its out of spec and it can not adjust it within the designated parameter you'll get a check engine light and a fuel trim lean code (or rich code but thats another problem).
I haven't spent a great deal of time following the threads about other intakes for the 2.5L since they really don't concern me. I have seen the reports of CELs and fuel trim faults from those threads however and I'd venture to say nine out of ten are probably from basic design errors and installer errors. There's nothing incredibly unique about the 2.5L intake, one point of concern from a design standpoint would be making sure that both of the airpump provisions which are past the MAF are designed to engage their lines properly, any unmetered air getting sucked in through an improperly fitting connection would cause a fuel trim lean condition.

In regards to the size or the calibration of the mass air flow sensor the 2.5L uses the ME7 Bosch management system which has been in use for several years now, its probably had every kind of cold air intake system thrown at it, I can't recall a single scenario where the MAF would cause the system to run lean based on volume of air unless the sensor itself was placed in a larger housing than it was originally designed for. 
HTH-
Dean

I disagree. This particular MAF, while the same as the VR6 MAF is placed after a significant amount of restriction from the OEM air box. By removing both a source of heat and flow restriction you can understand why the MAF size might begin to play a part.
From experience with the actual ME7.5 and the 2.5 motor I've seen differently that you apparently. By "stock" fueling I mean that the ECU isn't having to adjust fueling by more that a few percent from baseline. Block 032 will show you that data since it appears you may not have logged those values yet.
Having developed an intake I know what you mean by properly fitting those two secondary lines. That part has been assured to fit as stock. I personally drew those two pieces into AutoCAD including the appropriate o-ring sealing surface. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Despite those being correctly made we still saw significant amounts of fuel correction when using the stock MAF and corresponding properly sized tubing for the rest of the intake. We found that the additional flow that is seen with such an easily flowing intake caused fuel trims to approach and breach the 25% allowable correction. We feel that this is most likely the issue that so many users have seen. This issue comes from the built-in stock adjustments allowed for the injectors. An issue I hope proper aftermarket tuning can correct.
As I said before, the Carbonio intake may not have the issue. All I asked was to see the fuel trims your test cars are seeing. I'll trust you to provide truthful values. On our full 3" setup including the stock MAF, during testing, we saw values in the mid teens for correction and during extended highway runs the 25% limit was reached due to the large amount of air provided to the CAI because of it's placement. It may be that the Carbonio is slightly more restrictive than our first mock-up and so it won't be a problem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (Dean F)*

Dirve the car for a week or so....and check block 032...if you would please....Portland Oregon has an average elevation of around 173' above sea level...which is more dense than our around 900' above sea level....so your fuel trims should be a bit higher than most of the USA.....let us know in a week...







...dont let the project car just site around the shop.....drive it...


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## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Having developed an intake I know what you mean by properly fitting those two secondary lines. That part has been assured to fit as stock. I personally drew those two pieces into AutoCAD including the appropriate o-ring sealing surface. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Matt, 
No offense but given that you have an agenda here, do you really feel your posts are appropriate? We're certainly not (Carbonio, APR, Futrell) going to provide you with any of our testing data so you can tweak your own system to operate within the specified parameters. If anything your only causing confusion and you've got people who don't have the slightest idea what fuel trim is asking for block values







Here's the only specifics you need for data folks, there's eight readiness groups (accesible through 01/15 via the VAG-COM) , if they all pass and you don't have a CEL or stored fault your golden <-- ,meaning you can't not have this condition and have a problem (without modified software) Even more simplified, no check engine light, no problem.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_
Matt, 
No offense but given that you have an agenda here, do you really feel your posts are appropriate? We're certainly not (Carbonio, APR, Futrell) going to provide you with any of our testing data so you can tweak your own system to operate within the specified parameters. If anything your only causing confusion and you've got people who don't have the slightest idea what fuel trim is asking for block values







Here's the only specifics you need for data folks, there's eight readiness groups (accesible through 01/15 via the VAG-COM) , if they all pass and you don't have a CEL or stored fault your golden <-- ,meaning you can't not have this condition and have a problem (without modified software) Even more simplified, no check engine light, no problem. 


lol.


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## 2point5 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (Dean F)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dean F* »_
Matt, 
No offense but given that you have an agenda here, do you really feel your posts are appropriate? *We're certainly not (Carbonio, APR, Futrell) going to provide you with any of our testing data *so you can tweak your own system to operate within the specified parameters. If anything your only causing confusion and you've got people who don't have the slightest idea what fuel trim is asking for block values







Here's the only specifics you need for data folks, there's eight readiness groups (accesible through 01/15 via the VAG-COM) , if they all pass and you don't have a CEL or stored fault your golden <-- ,meaning you can't not have this condition and have a problem (without modified software) Even more simplified, no check engine light, no problem. 


WOW, I cant belive you just put that....so I guess the rest of us dont get to see it either......we'll someone will buy one and someone will test it. and someone is going to get a CEL...Ide put $$ on it.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (2point5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2point5* »_
WOW, I cant belive you just put that....so I guess the rest of us dont get to see it either......we'll someone will buy one and someone will test it. and someone is going to get a CEL...Ide put $$ on it.

I wouldn't. Knowing APR products I'm sure it works.
_All I asked for were the fuel trim numbers._
If Dean thinks that's going to reveal some kind of design secret, he's greatly misinformed.


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## jetta2pointfive (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: (2point5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2point5* »_
WOW, I cant belive you just put that....so I guess the rest of us dont get to see it either......we'll someone will buy one and someone will test it. and someone is going to get a CEL...Ide put $$ on it.

the only reason i think someone would get a CEL is if they installed it wrong, i placed my order today so i'll let you guys know how it turns out


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (jetta2pointfive)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2pointfive* »_
the only reason i think someone would get a CEL is if they installed it wrong, i placed my order today so i'll let you guys know how it turns out


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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