# Two bad batteries



## jmdpjd1 (Aug 18, 2004)

I took my Phaeton in yesterday because I was getting a warning to pleses start engine after it was already started. I was told it needed two new btteries and they had to be ordered according to VIN number. Hopefully they each had bad cells and this isn't the result of some other gremlins. BTW I am at 9200 miles in about five months.


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

Let them update all control modules with their current software, once they have the car their...
The original battery management isn't that good, newer software versions do the job better.
Would be also interesting to see a fault code list...
IMHO the chance thad both batteries go dead is extremely low, except both have been dischanged completely, but this only happens when the battery management fails. So replacing the battieres is only fixing the results, better to fix the cause and that's where the software updates do their job.


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## 05bntly (Jan 3, 2005)

I had the same problem with my Bentley Continental GT. Two dead batteries. Both of mine were replaced months ago and the problem has not recurred since.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Two bad batteries (jmdpjd1)*

Joe:
Some thoughts for you, from my own lived experience with batteries in my W12 Phaeton:
*1) *I have noticed that the vehicle power supply battery (the larger battery, the one on the left side of the vehicle behind the easy to release cover) has surprisingly limited capacity to power all the accessories in the vehicle if terminal 15 (ignition power) is switched on and the engine is not running. If daytime running lights are enabled, then I will get a "Please Start Engine" message after the ignition has been on for about half an hour, without the engine running.
I don't see this as a great problem. I'm an oddball user, because I have spent a lot of time in the car with the computer hooked up, ignition on, and the engine off - this for the purpose of writing label files for VAG-COM. If I start the car when I get the "Please Start Engine" message, no further problems arise, other than the car recording a number of fault codes (e.g. intervention load management, supply voltage terminal 30 below lower limit, etc.) for various controllers. As long as both my Phaeton technician and I appreciate that these fault codes are arising simply from low voltage present on the vehicle power supply battery, and are not an indication of any problem with the controller that reports them, we don't get sidetracked by these.
*2)* If I allow the vehicle power supply battery to run down further, after getting the first "Please Start Engine" message, then my Phaeton will start to display messages in the Y24 display between the speedometer and tachometer, along the lines of "Suspension Fault - Workshop", "Brake Fault - Workshop", and so forth. Again, these are entirely the result of very low voltage on the terminal 30 (battery) and terminal 15 (ignition) busses, because I have run the battery down. They are NOT, in any way, true indications of faults with the suspension or brake systems.
*3)* When my Phaeton came due for its 5,000 mile oil change, I asked the Phaeton technician at my dealership to have a look at the health of the vehicle power supply battery. He went through the 'guided fault finding' program on the VAS 5052 diagnostic scan tool that VW supplies the dealerships with, and the guided fault finding program suggested that he replace the generator (!!!). He did not agree with that recommendation, and neither did I, so we decided to investigate each battery the "old fashioned way", using an AVR tool.
We then checked the current flow to both batteries, for the purpose of recharging the batteries, when the engine was running. Current flow to both was just fine, and voltage was also just fine to both. The only conclusion we could come to from that was that I needed to modify the way I operate the vehicle as follows: *a)* Avoid running the vehicle power supply battery down - this means if I want to have ignition power on for more than 10 minutes, I really should start the engine, and; *b)* Write VW and ask them to modify the software for the central electrical controller so that the headlights (DRL's) are turned off when the parking brake is depressed, as is the case with a Golf or Jetta.
I have written a letter to a 'Phaeton enthusiast' friend in Dresden, and he assures me that the software will be changed - during the next routine maintenance release - so the DRL's go off when the parking brake is applied. This should greatly reduce current draw from the battery when we are parked and have the engine off but have the ignition on.
I have since been more cautious about starting the engine if I think I will need to have ignition power on for more than 10 minutes. Since then, I have had no further electrical related problems.
*4)* I believe (meaning, I'm pretty sure about this, but not quite ready to bet the rent money on it) that the guided fault finding software in the current release of VAS 5052 does not take into account that the Phaeton and Bentley vehicles have two different batteries in them. I'm very lucky that my Phaeton tech is enough of a wizard that he has the confidence to challenge the GFF suggestions if he doesn't agree with them. But, a tech who has less Phaeton experience might follow the GFF suggestions to the letter, thus doing a lot of re and re work that likely would not contribute to the ultimate solution of the problem.
Below is a photo I took of my Phaeton in the shop with the AVR tool hooked up to the vehicle power supply battery. Like I said - if this tool shows that the current and voltage being sent back to the batteries to recharge them is sufficient, and a battery load test shows that the batteries themselves are not deficient (meaning, they have trouble holding a full charge), then the only answer - in my case, anyway - is to avoid putting prolonged demands on the battery without recharging it.
My vehicle power supply battery seems to be OK, so far as passing a load test. The Phaeton tech and I don't really want to spend VW's warranty money carelessly, by 'shotgunning' parts replacement. So, we have agreed that I am going to see how things go for the next few weeks, and if I still encounter problems, our next strategy will be to swap my vehicle power supply battery with the one in the dealership's Phaeton demo, and see if that makes any difference. 
Hope this information helps.
*AVR Testing Tool* - this measures voltage and current being sent to the battery.
_Note that it is much, much easier to do work in this area if you first remove the fuse and relay panel, and then attach it to the trunk lid with the big cable clamp that is built into the top of the fuse and relay panel._


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Two bad batteries (PanEuropean)*

PS: I forgot to mention that my dealer put a new vehicle power supply battery in my Phaeton as part of the PDI process. My car had been in the showroom for about 6 months, and the vehicle power supply battery had been run down numerous times as a result of demonstrating features to people in the showroom, so he thought it would be best if he started me off with a nice, fresh battery.
This is why we are so reluctant to try replacing this battery after only 6 months and 5,000 miles on the road.
The starter battery in my car is original, but it has never given me any problems, so we have no concerns about that. This is, obviously, quite different from your experience.
Michael


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## jmdpjd1 (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: Two bad batteries (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Michael and Sebastian.
I picked up my Phaeton today and all is well. I only had to reset the TPMS which I said I would do. They assured me they did the all the software updates as well. Thanks for your insight.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Two bad batteries (PanEuropean)*

Just a follow-up post, to report on progress:
It's been 3 weeks since the big battery troubleshooting exercise, and since then, I have been careful to not leave the ignition on (without starting the engine) for longer than 5 minutes. The car has not accumulated a single fault code since then, and I have driven it about 1,500 km's (1,000 miles).
So, I think the PRIMARY cause of the problems I was having was that I was letting the vehicle power supply battery run down, by leaving the ignition on for 15 to 30 minutes without starting the engine. I am tentatively thinking that a SECONDARY cause of the problem might be that the J367 Battery Control module might not be sending enough power to the Vehicle Power Supply Battery (as opposed to the Starter Battery, which seems to be well-fed and has always been trouble-free).
I'm going to wait another month to find out what experience Rodger has once his J367 Battery Control module is replaced with a new one at a higher revision status (see this post: Report on first 3000 mile trip. If Rodger notices a significant improvement in Vehicle Power Supply Battery endurance after getting his controller replaced, maybe I might consider getting my controller replaced as well. But, for the time being, I have found a fully satisfactory workaround: Don't leave the ignition on for longer than 5 minutes without starting the engine.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Two bad batteries (PanEuropean)*

Joe:
It's been almost two months since you had the new batteries installed. Does that appear to have solved your electrical problems? How are things working?
BTW, just for the record, you have the 'B' revision battery management controller in your car, with software revision 2600. Here's a snip from the scan we did at the GTG:
Address 71: Battery Charger
Controller: 3D0 915 181 B
Component: Batteriemanagement 2600
Michael


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## jmdpjd1 (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: Two bad batteries (PanEuropean)*

So far so good as far as the battery is concerned. I have had no issues since the battery was replaced.
Has the flash become available to update the controller?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Two bad batteries (jmdpjd1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmdpjd1* »_Has the flash become available to update the controller?

That is what I hope to find out this weekend.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Two bad batteries (jmdpjd1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmdpjd1* »_Has the flash become available to update the controller?

When I was at the Phaeton owner GTG in Dresden, I learned that this particular controller - the J367 Battery Monitoring Controller - cannot be updated from A or B status (software 2500 or 2600) by way of a software flash. There is actually a physical difference inside the controller, between the A and B status ones and the current version, which is part number 3D0 915 181 suffix 'C', at software revision level 2700.
The only way to update the controller is to physically replace it with a new one that has the part number suffix C. This is not super-difficult to do, it takes about an hour. The controller is behind the left side battery, and the battery needs to be removed to replace the controller. Here is a picture that shows the controller.
Michael
*J367 Battery Monitoring Controller *


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Michael
You contributions are so wonderfull. Please know we all really appreciate them
Don.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Thanks, Don, kind of you to say that.
This 'battery discharge' problem has been the biggest headache that we as Phaeton owners have had. Not many folks have had it, but it's a bit like the flu - when you do get it, it's no comfort to know that you are only one out of 20 people to get it.
The battery discharge problem itself is pretty easy to fix, what really makes it a cause of huge grief is that the low battery voltage does not manifest itself 'plain and simple' - it shows up in the form of all sorts of fault messages and strange behavior in other parts of the car. Because of this, if an owner or Phaeton tech is not familiar with how to recognize and diagnose low battery voltage, it can be really frustrating for both the owner and the tech.
I made another post yesterday, explaining that a new Battery Management Controller was installed in my Phaeton. The Phaeton tech at my dealership and I wanted to wait a month or so to see what Rodger's experience was before we did anything. We kind of keep score by seeing how accurately we can diagnose a problem before we take any action - kind of like "use a silver bullet, not a shotgun". In other words, the smaller the amount of VW's warranty money that has to be spent on labour and parts to fix a problem, the better the two of us are doing. 
I talked to the engineers in Dresden last weekend, and they said that for my car, they thought the battery management controller might be the root cause of the problem. There's a writeup about the replacement of that part here: J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note: * Related discussion - Battery low


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Running out of ideas...*

Dear All,

This is my first post on the Phaeton forum - however, I have been "lurking" frequently since the purchase of my second-hand Phaeton a year and a half ago.

Unfortunately, for about a year now, I have been trying to diagnose mysterious electrical issues with the car. 

As previous threads have suggested, I have replaced my left side battery and installed a newer battery control mudule - but alas - the problems persist.

The "problems" I speak of are a "flashing" of the infotainement screen - and depending on how discharged the battery is - a total reset of trip calculations, etc. The navigation also does not work and I get a random "check please lights message every now and again. - And of course, the left side battery continues to go dead.

The thing that has me most confused is that I can disconnect the left side battery -fully charge the battery with my AGM compatable charger - hook it all back up in the morning - and everything will work - for about 10 minutes of driving - then the screen will blink and back to square one.

It is as if something has a significant drain on the left side battery - I have read several threads with similar problems that indicated an alternator change did the trick but I hate to just start hanging more parts...

I can't believe that it is an alternator issue as the starting battery has always read 100% - and the computer at the VW dealer shows the alternator putting out 13.5 volts.

I have also read that there have been lights that have been staying on in the trunk - or bad modules for the interior lighting that could cause a drain. I pulled the rear lighting system and unplugged it - but still battery discharge.

I'm running out of ideas - the car has only got 55k on it - and otherwise runs very well. 

Anyone have any ideas on what I should do next?

BTW - I have a dealer minutes away from me but no one trained on Phaeton. I was avle to get a tech to stay after hours to use the computer with me - but the dealership doesn't want to tackle my problem for me....


Regards,

Matt


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## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

Matt -

Glad to see you posting here. Hopefully you get some good advice and are able to solve your issues. 

One easy piece you can check is the software version of your infotainment (J523). You can also possibly have the dealer check the software in your instrument cluster (Y24). 

Search through the FAQ 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1652232-Phaeton-Forum-Table-of-Contents-(FAQ-by-Category)

These links may also give you some information at least as a starting point. 

Software Updates:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1760550

Distortion in the instrument cluster:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1878829


Infotainment Display:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2218506
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2098750#post24996985


Best Regards,

Nate


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

I like the feature where you can climb in the trunk and let yourself out. You could do that to see if the light is staying on in your trunk.

Just to make sure - let your wife know where you are and leave her a key and a can opener.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

steveskinr said:


> I like the feature where you can climb in the trunk and let yourself out...


That feature is included in all VW vehicles that are shipped to the USA market. It is known as the "Jimmy Hoffa Release Handle".


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Riffe6506 said:


> The "problems" I speak of are a "flashing" of the infotainement screen - and depending on how discharged the battery is - a total reset of trip calculations, etc. The navigation also does not work and I get a random "check please lights message every now and again. - And of course, the left side battery continues to go dead.


Hi Matt:

Welcome to the forum.

Automotive batteries only have a realistic lifetime of 5 years. If your car still has the original left side battery in it, that battery probably needs to be replaced.

It is also possible that the former owner of your car replaced the left side battery with something that did not meet the VW spec. If so, that could easily be the cause of your problems.

Nate has made some good suggestions (above), but before you start looking for software problems, etc., check the age (and specification) of the battery. Have a look at this post that describes problems another forum member is having at this time: Battery Issue. Then compare what is installed in the left side of your Phaeton with the picture (and specifications) of the OEM left battery.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Below is a photo showing where the month and year of manufacture is stamped on the original VW Battery.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note: *See also Battery issue.

Michael


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Battery Age - Control module suffix*

Nate and Michael,

Thank you so much for your responses. 

The battery I currently have I got from the VW dealer 4 days ago - they let me drive around with a 480 while they ordered the 520 - It looks just like the one in the picture Michael posted - but a 520A I believe. I will look at the terminal post to see the manufacture date and verify amps when I get home.

I will also pull the battery and get some photos of the "new" battery control manager that I installed. 

After reading MANY posts in regard to left side battery drain - it would appear that my battery control manager is not working - but what are the odds of the new one being faulty? - pretty slim I would think.

I guess there is a chance I did not install it correctly - but it is pretty straightforward -simple swap - and I read Michael's post prior to doing it. You would think if it was not installed correctly - neither battery would get ANY charge.

Is there any way to test the battery control manager to see if it is faulty?

Also - how many amps should the alternator be putting out? I think that the dealer computer said 13.5.

I have a service tech willing to work with me - he has access to all the diagnostic equipment but has no Phaeton training. (He is AUDI certified). Would it be of benefit to get a printout of the list of codes the vehicle is showing and post it for review? If memory serves me correctly - it looked very similar to some of the printouts I have seen posted on the forum for similar complaints.

Still trying - would love for this car to work someday!

thanks for any and all suggestions.

Matt


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Riffe6506 said:


> Also - how many amps should the alternator be putting out? I think that the dealer computer said 13.5.
> Matt


Matt:

What does your in dash voltmeter say? Mine and most everyone confirms a pretty solid 14 volts on the dash gauge. If you only have 13.5 volts(not amps), that is too low and it is possible your alternator or voltage regulator(internal to alternator) has failed. It seems like I read voltage should be between 13.8 volts and 14.2 volts on a Phaeton with a good battery.

Best of luck and hope you can begin enjoying the ride rather than nursing it.

Jim X


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Voltage*

Took a look at the battery. Number on the negative terminal is 30 over a 10 - so brand new. It is also a 520A vw battery.

The gauge on the dash has never read 14 volts (not amps - my mistake - I know the difference) It seems to hover between 13.3 and 13.8 depending on battery charge, draw, and rpm. Originally I had ruled out the alternator as the right side battery is always fully charged - but I guess if it is not throwing enough voltage - it could "confuse" the control module. 

I think you are on to something and plan to try to locate a different generator/voltage regulator and go ahead with the change out. I think I'll try to locate a salvage one though. I would buy new if I was sure it would cure the problem - but don't really want to throw $1,000 at it and have it not do the trick....

Never would have thought that an alternator on an '04 with 50k would have gone bad already - but I guess stranger things have happened.

Thanks so much for your help. I will report back when I know more.

Regards,

Matt


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Matt:

You are right that a failure of the alternator/regulator in your case would be premature. In fact the alternators in Phaetons seem to be pretty robust and I've heard that they are designed for about 150k miles. So you may want to check some simple things first. Such as - see if you can unplug and replug(apply contact cleaner to connector?) the alternator wiring harness to ensure that you have a good connection at the alternator. Nothing is easy on a Phaeton as I'm sure your finding, so it may not be possible to access the alternator connection without some disassembly. Also check your battery connections - especially the grounds. If someone else installed the batteries, who knows whether they were careful.

Jim X


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Riffe6506 said:


> ...Would it be of benefit to get a printout of the list of codes the vehicle is showing and post it for review?


Matt:

Yes, that is essential before we can proceed further in a rational manner. To attempt to speculate about the cause without reviewing the fault codes would be "shotgunning".

Michael


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

Riffe6506 said:


> The gauge on the dash has never read 14 volts (not amps - my mistake - I know the difference) It seems to hover between 13.3 and 13.8 depending on battery charge, draw, and rpm.


Matt,
mine has been rock-steady at 14 for the five years+ that I have owned the car. A couple of days ago I connected the left battery (still the original) to my charger as a precaution and it was fully charged in approx. 15 minutes, confirming its good state.
Stefano


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Vehicle code printout*

OK - I got the download from the dealership.


A couple things I think might be pertinent... The new battery was installed last Friday - so I'm not sure if disconnecting the battery erased any previous codes before then. 


My wife's key is dead and gave her some issues when trying to start the car a couple days ago. 

I also have the rear cabin lighting module out of the car - Ironically last night I was going through some more posts and saw one from Michael about a pinched wire in the module - guess what? - there it was right between the metal bus and foam! Going to fix and reinstall soon.

I have had intermittent Check Please Lights flash on the dash even before the battery drainage problem began.

Looks like a long and sordid list - and not as similar to some of the others I havew seen posted before.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated guys.


Matt



Workshop code:
083472 444 02665

Dealer identification:
Bob Burg Auto
402F65/402647

Version:
V18.01.01 12/08/2010 9.01.004 

License plate:
__________

Vehicle Identification Number (VIN):
WVWJK7AN2AE143957
01/12/2010 17:39:50
1001.01 - Check Event memory - Entire system

Function ended

01 - Engine electronics
4D0907560CS 8E0907560 
4.2L V8/5V G --- 0030
Code 7873
Dealership number 1065

2 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	4D0907560CS 
System description:	4.2L V8/5V G 
SW version:	0030
Hardware part number:	8E0907560 
HW version:	---
Coding:	7873
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

16502 P0118 002
Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 1
Circuit High
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

17978 P1570 008
Engine Control Module (ECM) disabled
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

71 - Battery charging device
3D0915181C ------------
Batteriemanagement --- 2700
Code 
Dealership number 0

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0915181C 
System description:	Batteriemanagement 
SW version:	2700
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	
Service garage code:	000000 000 00000

02 - Gearbox electronics
09L927760A GS19.04.1 
AG6 09L 4,2L V8 --- 0901
Code 1102
Dealership number 0

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	09L927760A 
System description:	AG6 09L 4,2L V8 
SW version:	0901
Hardware part number:	GS19.04.1 
HW version:	---
Coding:	1102
Service garage code:	000000 000 00000

03 - Brake electronics (ESP/EHC)
3D0614517R ------------
ESP 5.7 allrad H33 --- 0043
Code 8376
Dealership number 1065

1 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0614517R 
System description:	ESP 5.7 allrad H33
SW version:	0043
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	8376
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

01826 000
Steering Angle Sensor -G85-, voltage supply terminal 30
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

34 - Level control system (LuFe)
3D0907553B ------------
LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 --- 1101
Code 17700
Dealership number 98765

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0907553B 
System description:	LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0
SW version:	1101
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	17700
Service garage code:	001063 666 98765

05 - Access and start authorization (Kessy / WFS)
3D0909135M 5WK47026
Kessy --- 6400
Code 133356
Dealership number 1065

3 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0909135M 
System description: Kessy 
SW version:	6400
Hardware part number:	5WK47026
HW version:	---
Coding:	133356
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

00955 002
Key 1
Lower limit not reached
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

00166 014
Access/start authorization switch -E415
Defective
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

01299 005
Data bus on board diagnostic interface -J533
no or incorrect basic setting/adaptation
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

15 - Airbag
3D0909601D ------------
0A Airbag 8.4E+ H07 --- 0934
Code 12353
Dealership number 1065

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0909601D 
System description:	0A Airbag 8.4E+ H07
SW version:	0934
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	12353
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

25 - Immobilizer (WFS)
3D0909135M 5WK47026
Kessy --- 6400
Code 133356
Dealership number 1065

3 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0909135M 
System description: Kessy 
SW version:	6400
Hardware part number:	5WK47026
HW version:	---
Coding:	133356
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

00955 002
Key 1
Lower limit not reached
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

00166 014
Access/start authorization switch -E415
Defective
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

01299 005
Data bus on board diagnostic interface -J533
no or incorrect basic setting/adaptation
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

65 - Tire pressure monitoring
3D0907273D ------------
Reifendruckueberw. --- 0025
Code 210204
Dealership number 2665

1 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0907273D 
System description:	Reifendruckueberw. 
SW version:	0025
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	210204
Service garage code:	083472 444 02665

01521 004
Tire pressure sensor
No signal/communication
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

75 - Telematics
3D0035617 3D0035617 
Telematik NAR1 --- 0101
Code 61860
Dealership number 2137

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0035617 
System description:	Telematik NAR1 
SW version:	0101
Hardware part number:	3D0035617 
HW version:	---
Coding:	61860
Service garage code:	000335 444 02137

06 - Passenger side seat adjustment
3D0959759B ------------
Sitzmemory D1 BF --- 1401
Code 3
Dealership number 1065

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0959759B 
System description:	Sitzmemory D1 BF 
SW version:	1401
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	3
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

16 - Steering column electronic systems control (SMLS)
3D0953549C ------------
Lenks?ulenmodul --- 3301
Code 232
Dealership number 1065

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0953549C 
System description:	Lenks?ulenmodul 
SW version:	3301
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	232
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

36 - Driver seat adjustment
3D0959760B ------------
Sitzmemory D1 F --- 1401
Code 4
Dealership number 1065

1 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0959760B 
System description:	Sitzmemory D1 F 
SW version:	1401
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	4
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

00003 014
Control module
Defective
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

46 - Comfort system central control module (BCM2)
3D0959933E ------------
6P HSG --- 3211
Code 40
Dealership number 2133

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0959933E 
System description:	6P HSG 
SW version:	3211
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	40
Service garage code:	084367 444 02133

66 - Rear seat adjustment
3D0959860B ------------
Sitzmemory D1 H --- 1513
Code 1
Dealership number 0

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0959860B 
System description:	Sitzmemory D1 H 
SW version:	1513
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	1
Service garage code:	000000 000 00000

76 - Park assist (APS/PDC/PLA)
3D0919283C ------------
03 Einparkhilfe --- 0807
Code 
Dealership number 0

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0919283C 
System description:	03 Einparkhilfe 
SW version:	0807
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	
Service garage code:	000000 000 00000

07 - operating-/ display unit
3D0035008M ------------
ZAB COCKPIT --- 0188
Code 500305
Dealership number 1065

2 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0035008M 
System description: ZAB COCKPIT 
SW version:	0188
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	500305
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

01300 004
Control module for navigation with CD-mechanism -J401-
No signal/communication
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

00668 002
Vehicle voltage terminal 30
Lower limit not reached
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

17 - Instrument cluster
3D0920980N ------------
KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 --- 0311
Code 7221
Dealership number 2137

1 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0920980N 
System description:	KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4
SW version:	0311
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	7221
Service garage code:	058881 444 02137

01300 004
Control module for navigation with CD-mechanism -J401-
No signal/communication
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

47 - Sound system
3D0035466 ------------
12K-AUDIOVERST --- 0114
Code 
Dealership number 0

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0035466 
System description:	12K-AUDIOVERST 
SW version:	0114
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	
Service garage code:	000000 000 00000

08 - Air conditioner/heater electronics
3D0907040G ------------
Climatronic D1 --- 1132
Code 2
Dealership number 98769

2 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0907040G 
System description:	Climatronic D1 
SW version:	1132
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	2
Service garage code:	036180 666 98769

00711 005
Left footwell flap positioning motor -V108
no or incorrect basic setting/adaptation
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

00716 014
Recirculation flap motor -V113
Defective
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

28 - Rear climate control unit
3D0919158F ------------
Klima-Bedienteil D1 --- 0117
Code 
Dealership number 0

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0919158F 
System description:	Klima-Bedienteil D1
SW version:	0117
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	
Service garage code:	000000 000 00000

38 - Roof electronics
3D0907135B ------------
Dachmodul --- 0605
Code 47
Dealership number 98769

2 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0907135B 
System description:	Dachmodul 
SW version:	0605
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	47
Service garage code:	036180 666 98769

01577 010
Switch-off due to excessive temperature
Open circuit/short circuit to B+
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

00220 004
Connection to sunroof
No signal/communication
Status:	Intermittent

No environmental conditions stored

68 - Wiper electronics
3D1955119 ------------
Front Wiper --- 2005
Code 
Dealership number 0

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D1955119 
System description:	Front Wiper 
SW version:	2005
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	
Service garage code:	000000 000 00000

09 - Electronic central electrical system (BCM1)
3D0937049G ------------
STG.Bordnetz --- 5001
Code 2
Dealership number 1065

1 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0937049G 
System description:	STG.Bordnetz 
SW version:	5001
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	2
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

00907 000
Load management intervention
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

19 - Diagnostic interface for databus (Gateway)
6N0909901 ------------
Gateway KCAN --- 0101
Code 6
Dealership number 1065

1 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	6N0909901 
System description:	Gateway KCAN 
SW version:	0101
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	6
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

01300 004
Control module for navigation with CD-mechanism -J401-
No signal/communication
Status:	Static

No environmental conditions stored

29 - Left light control
3D0909157 ------------
EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) --- X012
Code 1
Dealership number 1065

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0909157 
System description:	EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) 
SW version:	X012
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	1
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065

39 - Right light control
3D0909158 ------------
EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) --- X012
Code 1
Dealership number 1065

0 Trouble code detected?

Software part number:	3D0909158 
System description:	EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) 
SW version:	X012
Hardware part number:	------------
HW version:	---
Coding:	1
Service garage code:	000000 000 01065


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Matt:

I have looked through your list. Problems with the word 'intermittent' indicate that the problem was there at some time in the past, but was not present when the scan was carried out. They can be disregarded.

The most serious problem that I see is that your instrument cluster software is way out of date, it is at the original release status (as loaded from the factory). It needs to be updated, see this thread for details: Instrument Cluster (MFI, or Y24) - How to reset the Display Screen (Includes TB C-90-04-01 and TB 90-05-04).

Ask your dealership staff to carry out the software flash in accordance with TB 90-05-04. This is the most important thing to be done, it will solve a whole host of problems you have been encountering with electronics. It may (fairly high probability) solve the battery discharge problem.

The scan indicates that you have a defective control module for your driver seat. Sometimes, control modules can be reset by entering a value of 00 in channel 0 of the controller. It is also possible that you might be able to clear this fault code by re-adapting the controller. See this post for an explanation: How to adapt moving components (windows, seats, sunroof, trunk lid, etc.) There is some probablity (not high, but possible) that this could be the cause of your battery discharge problem.

Hope this helps,

Michael



Riffe6506 said:


> Vehicle Identification Number (VIN):
> WVWJK7AN2AE143957
> 01/12/2010 17:39:50
> 1001.01 - Check Event memory - Entire system
> ...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Riffe6506 said:


> My wife's key is dead and gave her some issues when trying to start the car a couple days ago.


Uh, something sounds odd here. The key has two components to it - a battery-powered component that is used for remote door locking and unlocking (the functions activated by the push-buttons on the key fob) and a transponder chip that does not require any power at all that is used for authorizing engine start.

The transponder chip - which is embedded in the root of the key, near the hinge of the key blade, has a failure rate of less than one in a million (literally, that's not hypebole). Most likely the failure of the car to start was related to a low battery issue, not to the key itself.

Michael


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Key*

Michael,

I thought it was kind of wierd too. I had driven the car to my office and my wife came to bring me the truck and swap vehicles. She brought her key - which had been giving a message of "low key battery" or something similar for some time.

She tried to start the vehicle without me around - and then came and got me when it wouldn't start for her. I then tried to start the car with her key and it gave a message that I wish I could remember exactly - something like "improper authorization" - and then "immobilze". 

I thought "holy crap!" Then tried my key - it initially did not work, but did after I turned ti ti the left to reset and tried again.

It might be worth mentioning that this occurred prior to getting the new battery - so I am pretty sure that the left side battery was in poor shape.

Not sure if that matters though - might be the right side battery that controls the "security check" prior to ignition.

This key (my wife's) is the original one I got with the car. The other key had to be ordered by the dealer from Germany as I said that 2 keys was a condition of me buying the vehicle.


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Voltage meter*

Michael and Stefano,

Stefano,

Thanks for the inofrmation about your in dash volt meter. This certainly indicates that there is a problem with mine. Seems like a chicken or the egg situation right now though. Not sure if everything is going crazy because of a bad alternator / alternator connection - or if software problems are causing the alternator to be unable to charge adequately.

Michael,

I will take the car and your recommendations to the dealership today. Not sure how long it will be before I can get the tech to stay late and do the updates - but rest assured that I will give you a report on the results.

I am hopeful and optimistic that these updates will cure all - but what if they don't? Do I start looking to the alternator then? If the alternator was performing inadequately, would there have been a trouble code shown for that too?

Don't mean to sound like a pessimist, rather, would like to have the next step in place so that the tech could test it right away instead of having to schedule more of his after hours time again at a later date....

I can't thank you and the other members of this forum enough. I have participated in several other automotive forums before - but have never experienced this amount of timiliness, knowledge, and participation unmarred by mass amounts of trivia.

Someday I hope to be able to contribute a little knowledge of my own!

Reagrds,

Matt


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Riffe6506 said:


> I am hopeful and optimistic that these updates will cure all - but what if they don't?


Hi Matt:

If the software flash and investigation into the possible (but unlikely) drain of power from the driver seat control module do not solve the problem, then, the next step is to get yourself a small battery charger and plug the car in overnight for a few days. That will probably solve the problem for good. Information about the correct type of battery charger to buy and how to use it can be found here: Purchasing and using a Battery Maintainer for your Phaeton (Includes TB 00-03-11).

You can replace the small button battery in the key yourself... it is easy to do. You can buy a replacement button battery at any large retail store, or at your VW dealer. Just be sure to buy a good quality (brand name) button battery, such as Varta, Panasonic, or similar, not some off-brand that no-one has ever heard of that is sold at the local dollar store. Instructions for replacing the button battery can be found here: How to change the battery in the key fob (includes TB 57-06-03). The button batteries usually last about 3 years.

Michael


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

Riffe6506 said:


> This key (my wife's) is the original one I got with the car. The other key had to be ordered by the dealer from Germany as I said that 2 keys was a condition of me buying the vehicle.


Matt,
Was this the first time you/your wife used the original key since the dealer delivered the second key (the one you are normally using)? If so I suspect the problem is that when the new key was adapted by the dealer the old (original) one was not present: as Michael pointed out in a thread on key adaptation, whenever a new key needs to be adapted *all* existing keys need to be present too, otherwise they will cease to operate (even though they were the original keys supplied with the car). If this is the case, the problem can be resolved by re-adapting both keys, but keep in mind that this operation can only be performed by a dealer, for security reasons.
Stefano


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Was the TB you listed issued in North America?*

Michael,

I spoke with the VW tech again and shared the TB 90-05-04 info with him. He was unable to locate this technical bulletin and wondered if he was able to acess it in the States.

He asked me if I could get a CD or SVM# - or an actual copy of the TB.

I have tried to find the actual TB on the forum - but either I can't find it or it needs to be rehosted.

Do you think you could assit me in finding this info to share with the technichan?

As always, thanks for any help you may be able to provide.

Regards,

Matt


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Matt:

Ask the technician to look up the reference number "2010402", or TB 90-06-02, both of which are new reference numbers assigned to replace the original 90-05-04.

I have appended some PDFs below, hopefully these will help.

Michael


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Got the software updated to version 21*

It's been sometime since I last posted about my electrical saga - just got my instrument sluster sofware flash updated to version 21 yesterday.

Unfortunately - the problem persists. 

While pulling away from the delearship I noticed that the voltage meter in the car was reading 14 or a little better - but the longer I drove it - the lower the voltage got.

This is leading me to believe that I have an alternator issue - so my next step will be to replace the alternator.

I will inform all as to wether or not this cures the problem - and will try to take a few pics of the process and do a write up for the DIY section.

Thanks,

Matt


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Matt

One of my Phaetons has a slight flickering of the overhead light. One person familiar with Phaetons suggested that it might be an alternator. It happened to him once. I am going to get a software update soon on that car and check on the age of the battery. I suspect you will get answers before I do, but I will let you know what I learn.

Does yours have a slight flickering of the overhead light - especially noticeable at night?

When I get home I am also going to see if it flickers when the engine is turned off.

I can't remember if it was flickering before I did the DVD update from 220 to 223. I need to be more observant.

Steve


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## 611 (Sep 1, 2010)

steveskinr said:


> Matt
> 
> One of my Phaetons has a slight flickering of the overhead light. One person familiar with Phaetons suggested that it might be an alternator. It happened to him once. I am going to get a software update soon on that car and check on the age of the battery. I suspect you will get answers before I do, but I will let you know what I learn.
> 
> ...


Hey Steve! 

Mine does this as well. Its especially noticeable in the front passenger footwell lighting with the door open at night. 

I still haven't gotten around to replacing my battery but it is "due" since its original. Hopefully that will fix it and its not the alternator.

Kevin


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

steveskinr said:


> One of my Phaetons has a slight flickering of the overhead light.


Steve:

Front or rear overhead light? Also, determine if the problem is present when the engine is not running. That will rule out the alternator (which, BTW, I kind of doubt is the problem, because I have not seen very much discussion of alternator problems during the last 7 years of forum history).

Michael


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Flickering lights / alternator replacement / ground locations*

Steve,

I have noticed a slight "flickering" of both the interior and headlamps and have noted that it seems to go away when the vehicles engine is not running - but I have not looked very long - as I am afraid of running the battery down!. That would seem to suggest alternator issues - wouldn't it?

I just got my salvage alternator this morning - it is out of a Phaeton that had 27k. I will be installing it as soon as possible - but have family in town and will be going hunting between Christmas and New Year - so might be a bit before I report back.

I was also wondering if anyone had acess to the grounding locations on the Phaeton. It seems possible to me that I could also have a bad ground that could give rise to these symptoms. I f I knew where to look I would check that out while I had the car up on my friends lift.

Thanks to all,

Matt


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Riffe6506 said:


> ...That would seem to suggest alternator issues - wouldn't it?


Matt - the alternators have been relatively bulletproof on these cars, I only remember ever seeing one mention of an alternator being replaced. My suspicion would fall on the battery first (cause that is a known cause of headaches, and all the OEM batteries are now well past their 'best before' date), and, perhaps, the battery controller second.

The key to doing scientific troubleshooting here (rather than "shotgunning") is to use the diagnostic scan tool. If there are no fault codes related to an alternator, then the alternator is healthy, plain and simple. If the alternator is not doing what it is supposed to do (alternate? ), then you will see very clear and unambiguous fault codes advising you of that.

If you would like extra, personal assurance of the good health of the alternator, just have a look at the voltage levels using the MVBs (Measured Value Blocks) when the engine is running.

Michael


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## Riffe6506 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Not the battery*

Michael,

In this case it is not the battery - I have had 3 brand new OEM batteries now.

I have also upgraded the battery control module - for around $600. (I was really happy to hear they are blowing these controllers out for less than $90.00 now.)

I have had a flash update of the instrument cluster software to version 21.

I am running out of aces when it comes to computer hardware/software. I got the alternator for $100 - and although I am not sure it is going to do the trick either - it is my next step.

I truly appreciate the wealth of knowledge you bring to this forum - but in this case - I hope you are wrong about the alternator! 

Merry Christmas all - I will report back after the New Year!

Matt


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

Here's a link to a post that discusses replacement of the batteries when they reach end of life (typically about 5 years), and provides the specifications for a replacement battery:

Need help determining correct battery specification.

Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

PanEuropean said:


> .</I><br>


Michael, is the watch for sale? 

On a serious note, I've found out that the right visor light is constantly on (shuts off while car is hibernating after 15 minutes like you once told me). Is there a way to shut it off?

Salah


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Michael,

One non-battery related observation, I noticed that your trunk struts position is 180 degrees different than mine! Is this the factory position?

Salah


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

PanEuropean said:


> <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>jmdpjd1</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has the flash become available to update the controller?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>When I was at the Phaeton owner GTG in Dresden, I learned that this particular controller - the J367 Battery Monitoring Controller - cannot be updated from A or B status (software 2500 or 2600) by way of a software flash. There is actually a physical difference inside the controller, between the A and B status ones and the current version, which is part number 3D0 915 181 suffix 'C', at software revision level 2700.<p>The only way to update the controller is to physically replace it with a new one that has the part number suffix C. This is not super-difficult to do, it takes about an hour. The controller is behind the left side battery, and the battery needs to be removed to replace the controller. Here is a picture that shows the controller.<p>Michael<p><B>J367 Battery Monitoring Controller </B><p>


My first scan, and this is exactly what I need to do

ddress 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl

Part No: *3D0 915 181 B*

Component: Batteriemanagement 2600 

Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000

VCID: 224BE670FE0C4C0EAD3-5140



4 Faults Found:

00086 - Parallel Battery Connection Relay (J581) 

011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent

00092 - Starter Battery Temperature Sensor (G331) 

010 - Open or Short to Plus

00576 - Terminal 15 

008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

00003 - *Control Module 

014 - Defective
*


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Are those modules repairable as well?


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Salah,

Glad you found the Battery Monitoring thread OK (J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement (Includes RVU TB 27-06-02)). As Michael says, it appears that you can't upgrade the controller from the suspect 'B' to the good 'C', you have to buy a 'C' controller. No-one has posted any hardware repairs for this module either.

Upgrading is thought to have cured a few battery problems over the years, so is recommended. That module lists at around $750 but is in plentiful supply as a used part at around $50 if you don't mind a small risk. Try this search.

Chris


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Chris,

From personal experience, the risk is a bit on the high side if one decides on buying a used module. No Guarantee, no return etc. 
It's $515 at Jim Ellis as I found.

Regards


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> the risk is a bit on the high side


I agree. That's why I would prefer to buy from a Polish car breaker than a private seller on eBay.de. The car in Poland is unlikely to be dismantled due to a battery charger problem, so the removed module is probably working. But the private seller in Germany is possibly dumping a suspect unit.

Chris


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Hello Chris,

Thanks for the input. I decided to go with a new module. Big government (aka wife) patience with the vehicle is wearing thin and I want to show her the readability of it asap 

Salah


----------



## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Everyone,

So my Scan show this error which is common to phaeton problems. 


> Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
> Part No: 3D0 915 181 B
> Component: Batteriemanagement 2600
> Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
> ...


I know from this thread that upgrade to version "C" work well. My Question is what about version "D" ? I have seen those sold online as well. Will it work with my Phaeton V8 4.2L ?

Thanks
Asad


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*3d0 915 181 b/c/d/e*

Hi Asad,

Part B is listed as superseded by part C for my MY2006 car, but there is no note in the parts lists to continue the upgrade to Part D.

Part D however is listed as being superseded by part E.

The conclusion I draw is that prior to around the 2007/2008 refresh we should use part C, and in refresh cars we should use part E. The difference may be in the upgraded data bus protocol that was incorporated.

However, if someone has a part D or E they want to try in a pre-2008 car, then the success or otherwise of that experiment would contribute to our knowledge! 

Chris


----------



## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Chris,

Good to hear from you. Since you have answered my Question so I won't be playing any more . Version "C" was not superseded for MY2006 and I will buy version "C" from the Poland search engine you suggested earlier to Saleh. They have very nice prices. 

Thanks
Asad


----------

