# APR Presents EMCS Program Switching for the Audi TT RS!



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

APR’s Patented EMCS Program Switching is now available for the TT RS platform expanding upon the market’s best solution for TT RS performance upgrades. APR EMCS adds additional features to the APR ECU Upgrade allowing customers to cycle through programs and features from the driver seat, all without any additional hardware. With this upgrade, it’s easy to switch between the vehicle’s original software, an APR valet program designed to limit the vehicles performance and several APR octane specific performance programs designed to safely extract more power depending on fuel quality. There are no tricks, multipliers or other gimmicks; each map is a completely new calibration specific to each octane’s performance capabilities!

Beyond performance alone, APR EMCS adds additional functionality to the factory ECU. The Security Lockout feature prevents changing programs or accessing other features without entering a unique password. Fault Code Erase allows for quick fault code clearing without ever needing to plug in a laptop or other fault code-reading device. Lastly, APR’s Anti-Theft feature can protect your TT RS from theft by disabling use of the vehicle’s accelerator pedal without entering a user-defined password. 

All of this takes place from the driver seat using the factory cruise control stalk. With the engine off, the stalk’s SET button is used to cycle through programs while the RESUME button is used for other features. With the engine started, the stalk continues to operate like normal. 

APR’s EMCS Program Switching is now available at all stages. 

For more information on our TT RS Product line, please visit our product pages:


APR ECU Upgrade
APR RSC Exhaust System
APR Stage III Turbocharger System
APR High Pressure Fuel Pump

Thank you and as always, go APR!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Awesome! Great to see APR continuing to invest in the TT-RS platform.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

Marty said:


> Awesome! Great to see APR continuing to invest in the TT-RS platform.


Perfect timing!!

I have an appt. at 034 on Tues for my stage 1 tune and the install of my MSS springs.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Awesome! Great to see APR continuing to invest in the TT-RS platform.


We aren't finished yet! There are several (yes, several) parts on the horizon at the moment.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

TRZ06 said:


> Perfect timing!!
> 
> I have an appt. at 034 on Tues for my stage 1 tune and the install of my MSS springs.


Perfect is right! Enjoy my friend.


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

Yay! Can't wait to send in my ECU.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Okay, so I'm slightly confused about pricing.

With the sale going on right now, for $899 (4 Programs & All Options) I can get:

- Stock, 91, 93, and 100 maps, switchable
- Security Lockout
- Fault Code Erase
- Anti-Theft

That's all included in that price, minus any dealer labor charges?

Also, I shouldn't have to have the ECU pulled as long as the dealer I go to (most likely Goodspeed) has the tools to flash it via the OBD2 port, right? I thought I remembered something somewhere about earlier ECUs having to be pulled or something, but seeing how it's a MED9 ECU I found that odd.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

You are correct on the price. The ECU does need pulled for the first time though.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> You are correct on the price. The ECU does need pulled for the first time though.


Just removed, not cracked open, right?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The US ECU's are opened and plugged into our flashing station. The ECU harness is connected to a computer type device we deliver to our dealers. The device hooks to a computer which connects to our internal APR servers to deliver the latest available software, all automatically with logged support from APR during the entire process. 

The ECU looks like this when in the APR CCD. 










This is usually only needed for the first flash and the rest are through the OBDII port. 

In the ROW, the early TTRS were all through the OBDII port, but that ability was removed on the later ECUs, including all in the USA.

We use the OEM sealant to reseal the ECUs after the process is complete and the APR dealers are able to purchase this directly from us. 

The process is pretty simple all said and done. There is no soldering or modifying the board. We're simply connecting to the communication ports to allow for flashing the ECU.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> There is no soldering or modifying the board.


That was my only real concern. Lot more room for things to go wrong the second you start dicking around with a board. Thanks for the clarification!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

sc0ttyb said:


> That was my only real concern. Lot more room for things to go wrong the second you start dicking around with a board. Thanks for the clarification!


I don't see problems really. Being a TTRS I'm sure people take their time. I don't know of any dealers who like buying replacement ECUs.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

Nice work APR! Your dedication to continued development and improvement is to be commended! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

stupid question, but to get this new upgrade, the ECU does not need to be taken out, right?


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Timster said:


> stupid question, but to get this new upgrade, the ECU does not need to be taken out, right?


If you're already flashed, then no. From what Arin said, you only have to do that once when you're initially flashed. Every other time can be done via OBD2.


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

Great news, made my appointment today for a 034 DP install and Stage 2 switching Flash for next Thursday, really looking forward to this upgrade.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

TunaTT said:


> Great news, made my appointment today for a 034 DP install and Stage 2 switching Flash for next Thursday, really looking forward to this upgrade.


Welcome to the 034 schedule for next week, lol

I have mine on Tues. Although, I have decided to start with Stage 1 and also having the MSS springs installed as well.

After you have your stage 2 down w/ DP and I am assuming the APR turbo back system? I would love to meet up and hear how it sounds.


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

TRZ06 said:


> Welcome to the 034 schedule for next week, lol
> 
> I have mine on Tues. Although, I have decided to start with Stage 1 and also having the MSS springs installed as well.
> 
> After you have your stage 2 down w/ DP and I am assuming the APR turbo back system? I would love to meet up and hear how it sounds.


At this point I'm staying with the stock Sport Cat back, I will be trying the 034 Mid pipes /cats replacement pipes after I try it with just the 034 DP first. It should be done around 2pm. On Thursday if your in the area and want to stop by 034 to hear it with this set up.

BTW You're going to really like the MMS Springs.


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Awesome update. I think I'll add it to my stage 2.

One question though. I am running an event next month that is providing race fuel on site. MS109. I believe it is rated at 101 octane. Would that still be ok with the 100 tune? Especially since it would probably be mixed with remnants of some 91 left in the tank. I'm fairly new to this so pardon the probably basic of questions. 

PS there is going to be a GIAC tuned TT-RS there so I want to make sure I'm not competing against it running only 91. Ughhh.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> You are correct on the price. The ECU does need pulled for the first time though.


Hi Arin, just to confirm: the APR website says it is $149 to "Upgrade Existing APR ECU to 4 Programs & All Options!", but that is only for folks who purchase only the 1-program option starting 10/24 after program switching was released, correct?

My understanding is that for all existing customers of the APR ECU upgrade for the TT-RS that purchased it prior to program switching becoming available, the upgrade is 100% free as you mentioned in the original APR ECU upgrade thread, but that isn't clear in this thread yet. Could you confirm? 



[email protected] said:


> If you buy the software before program switching is available, all of the features and programs that will fit onto the ECU will be given to you for free, otherwise if you purchase the ECU after program switching is available, they will cost extra.


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## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Excellent news!!!!!

My usual response will be any word on when it's going to flow out to the ROW?


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

Marty said:


> Hi Arin, just to confirm: the APR website says it is $149 to "Upgrade Existing APR ECU to 4 Programs & All Options!", but that is only for folks who purchase only the 1-program option starting 10/24 after program switching was released, correct?
> 
> My understanding is that for all existing customers of the APR ECU upgrade for the TT-RS that purchased it prior to program switching becoming available, the upgrade is 100% free as you mentioned in the original APR ECU upgrade thread, but that isn't clear in this thread yet. Could you confirm?


I would like to know this also. I am getting mine updated on Tuesday

Thanks


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Marty said:


> Hi Arin, just to confirm: the APR website says it is $149 to "Upgrade Existing APR ECU to 4 Programs & All Options!", but that is only for folks who purchase only the 1-program option starting 10/24 after program switching was released, correct?
> 
> My understanding is that for all existing customers of the APR ECU upgrade for the TT-RS that purchased it prior to program switching becoming available, the upgrade is 100% free as you mentioned in the original APR ECU upgrade thread, but that isn't clear in this thread yet. Could you confirm?




Paging Arin..:laugh:..


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

Silence...


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

I scheduled an appointment to get it flashed. Hopefully it will be a free addon, just pay for install.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sorry, I was on vacation. I'm looking into everything now. We've run promotions like this on other platforms for a limited time so I'll see if there was one here too.


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

Btw, the instructions on the APR page on how to unlock the ECU for switching is incorrect

It says to use Set for your digit and resume to enter after each one. That does not work. It is actually Up (+) for the digit and Down (-) to enter.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

croman44 said:


> Btw, the instructions on the APR page on how to unlock the ECU for switching is incorrect
> 
> It says to use Set for your digit and resume to enter after each one. That does not work. It is actually Up (+) for the digit and Down (-) to enter.


I put up the wrong directions thinking it was the single stalk setup. Thanks!


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

Arin, Has anything changed with the tune since the 2.0 version came out? 

I got the 2.0 version when it first came out and have not touched it since, but I would swear that my car had a bit more spunk today after I put in the program switching


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry, I was on vacation. I'm looking into everything now. We've run promotions like this on other platforms for a limited time so I'll see if there was one here too.


Any updates on this? I'm going in on saturday to get the update. Just need to know if it is included with my original tune or if I need to pay the $150.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

croman44 said:


> Arin, Has anything changed with the tune since the 2.0 version came out?
> 
> I got the 2.0 version when it first came out and have not touched it since, but I would swear that my car had a bit more spunk today after I put in the program switching


yes the very first 2.0 ran too rich...


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

croman44 said:


> Arin, Has anything changed with the tune since the 2.0 version came out?
> 
> I got the 2.0 version when it first came out and have not touched it since, but I would swear that my car had a bit more spunk today after I put in the program switching


What are your impressions of the program switching functionality, and have you tried a higher octane v2.0 map? Thanks.


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

It's very easy to switch around, the only thing that threw me is that after I switched tunes the car would not start.

Apparently after you switch the tune, you need to turn the key to the first location and leave it for about 10 seconds to allow the car to finalize itself. You will then see the engine light blink and you are good to go. 

I did not know that and tried to start it a few times and it would just crank. You only have to wait the first time after you switch tunes. 

I run 93 all the time anyways so I have not had a chance to try a higher octane. I may put it back to stock tomorrow and play with it just to remember what I left behind.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

If it's like their other programs if there are no BLINKING lights in the dash when you "switch"... That means you didn't switch.. You picked the same program as before... Thus it does nothing... That can make you scratch your head until you figure it out...


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

what about a tune for vpracing ms109?? maybe can get to 475hp


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> what about a tune for vpracing ms109?? maybe can get to 475hp


I am going to an event that will have MS109 on hand which I believe is rated at 101 octane. I'm wondering if I could still just use the 100 tune or if that won't work.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

LynxFX said:


> I am going to an event that will have MS109 on hand which I believe is rated at 101 octane. I'm wondering if I could still just use the 100 tune or if that won't work.


I'm no expert, but it's been my understanding that if you use a higher octane fuel than your engine is tuned for then you're just wasting money, but if you use a lower octane fuel than you're tuned for then you're in for timing pull and other fun stuff the car does to keep it from hurting itself. Given that it's only 1 octane higher than the 100 tune I'd say you'll be fine.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

LynxFX said:


> I am going to an event that will have MS109 on hand which I believe is rated at 101 octane. I'm wondering if I could still just use the 100 tune or if that won't work.


ms109 is 105 octane, hence me asking what a 105 tune would offer....


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> ms109 is 105 octane, hence me asking what a 105 tune would offer....


http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp-racing-fuels.html

This says it is 101 motor octane, R+M/2: 105 octane and 109 research octane. Guess that is where I get confused. 

After further looking there are some stations around LA that sell 100 octane fuel so I can just fill up with that.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

and the apr 100 tune is r+m/2 right?


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> and the apr 100 tune is r+m/2 right?


Yes it is. So MS109 is 105 octane, unsupported. I'll stick to the 100 race fuel I've found at a few local pumps.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

well it will work, you will just have 5 extra octanes not giving you any extra power..., unless apr comes out with a 105 tune


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

So what's the word? Just curious if folks ended up getting the free program switching originally offered, or had to pay in the end.


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Marty said:


> So what's the word? Just curious if folks ended up getting the free program switching originally offered, or had to pay in the end.


According to my correspondence with APR it is not a free update for those with the tune already. $150 for the switching program update.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

LynxFX said:


> According to my correspondence with APR it is not a free update for those with the tune already. $150 for the switching program update.


Bummer. Though, personally, I think such an update for switching is definitely worth the money for continued support for the TT-RS. Just a bummer on the mis-information. 

*Arin*, did you get some flack over there from folks?


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Marty said:


> Bummer. Though, personally, I think such an update for switching is definitely worth the money for continued support for the TT-RS. Just a bummer on the mis-information.
> 
> *Arin*, did you get some flack over there from folks?


Yeah I don't mind paying, but $150 saved is a $150 saved so figured I better double check. Getting it installed tomorrow.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

Marty said:


> Bummer. Though, personally, I think such an update for switching is definitely worth the money for continued support for the TT-RS. Just a bummer on the mis-information.
> 
> *Arin*, did you get some flack over there from folks?


Program switching is a very nice feature…been doing it for nearly a year and a half!


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Just got Stage 1 on the last day of the fall sale. Shoulda come like this from the factory, wow.


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

TunaTT said:


> Great news, made my appointment today for a 034 DP install and Stage 2 switching Flash for next Thursday, really looking forward to this upgrade.


Stage 2 switching w/the 034 DP done yesterday, put about 150 miles on it today (commute to work) and I think I'm going to like this set up just fine. Nice delivery of the power throughout the RPM range, even pulls away from a stop under normal driving conditions better and the WOT delivery is much much better. Also really like the noise level / tone (which is just what I was hoping for) with the DP, stock mid pipes and sport exhaust. I will be trying without the stock mid pipes at a later date but it's pretty good as is. Will be spending more time this weekend exploring the new level of performance. 
Thanks APR and 034 Mortorsports (for both the DP and the install / flash).


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

TunaTT said:


> Stage 2 switching w/the 034 DP done yesterday, put about 150 miles on it today (commute to work) and I think I'm going to like this set up just fine. Nice delivery of the power throughout the RPM range, even pulls away from a stop under normal driving conditions better and the WOT delivery is much much better. Also really like the noise level / tone (which is just what I was hoping for) with the DP, stock mid pipes and sport exhaust. I will be trying without the stock mid pipes at a later date but it's pretty good as is. Will be spending more time this weekend exploring the new level of performance.
> Thanks APR and 034 Mortorsports (for both the DP and the install / flash).


It was nice meeting you on Thurs. I'm glad you are enjoying your stage 2. We should get together sometime, I would love to hear the sound with the DP and feel the difference in turbo spool.

Donovan


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

Arin:

I posted this on my review thread, but just in case you don't view it, I would like to paste it here. Could you please comment on the last paragraph regarding the noise? 

If you read my review post, others seem to have this as well. 




APR STAGE 1: Very impressed!!! I previously had Stasis a while back (before going back to stock) and wow what a difference. Great job APR!!! So here are things I had noticed...

1. Throttle response is more responsive (just like advertised) without the throttle being more sensitive.

2. Amazing power increase with no dead spots and very smooth across the entire range. And this is on crappy 91 octane map. 

3. Thank you APR for leaving the throttle mapping alone in sport mode. Stasis programmed it out and I hated that. Sure it is sensitive, but it does has its uses.

4. Power doesn't drop off nearly as much as stock in the upper RPM range. I used to shift at about 5.5K stock as anything above that and it kind of fell flat. APR has made that much less of an issue. Sure there is still a drop off (as there are on most turbo cars) but a lot less so.

My only complaint is that I have a "rattle" or injector noise in the lower RPM range that was not there stock. It happens only under throttle and stops as soon as you let off the gas. At first I thought something was loose like a shroud or something, but I took one of the guys at 034 for a ride and he heard it said it was mechanical. He said he would contact APR about it, but I have not heard anything as of yet. I don't know if it is a side effect of them adjusting the ignition timing or what, but that is a little disappointing. I am still hoping I can figure out what it is.


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

TRZ06 said:


> It was nice meeting you on Thurs. I'm glad you are enjoying your stage 2. We should get together sometime, I would love to hear the sound with the DP and feel the difference in turbo spool.
> 
> Donovan


Donovan, Nice meeting you as well. 034 told me when I was there that they were going to put together a TTRS get together somtime soon, could be a opportunity to do some comparing of not only with our RS's but of others that will be there as well. Hopefully there will be a number of different exhaust arrangments that we would be able to hear.


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

I got the update yesterday. Very simple to change tunes, very good documentation (well done APR). 

I haven't tried out the race tune yet, need to find a station with 100 octane on hand, but I will soon enough. Also got confirmation that MS109 should work so I'm good to go for the NoFlyZone event. Rolling half mile drag later this month.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> Arin:
> 
> I posted this on my review thread, but just in case you don't view it, I would like to paste it here. Could you please comment on the last paragraph regarding the noise?
> 
> ...


Firstly, thanks for the review! We work hard on these things and it's nice to hear about people enjoying them.

As to the rattle, I've not heard anything like that on a TT-RS that we've had here. I'll run it by one of our master hardware techs. Perhaps they'll have better insight.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Firstly, thanks for the review! We work hard on these things and it's nice to hear about people enjoying them.
> 
> As to the rattle, I've not heard anything like that on a TT-RS that we've had here. I'll run it by one of our master hardware techs. Perhaps they'll have better insight.


Sean,

Thanks for the response. If you look at my review thread others have more accurately described the noise we are hearing.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry, I was on vacation. I'm looking into everything now. We've run promotions like this on other platforms for a limited time so I'll see if there was one here too.


Hi Arin, what was the result of looking into everything?


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Marty said:


> Hi Arin, what was the result of looking into everything?


No free upgrades. $150 for the complete switching program.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

LynxFX said:


> No free upgrades. $150 for the complete switching program.


But I assume that is from dealers or from other APR reps.

Arin started this thread, and said he was going to check into it, so I'm hoping he will reply eventually here and explain what happened and why APR won't honor the offer in this case.

If the response is just to avoid replying, then I think that is pretty disappointing (personally) because I'm a fan of APR.


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

My answer was straight from APR after I contacted them directly, not a rep or dealer or through the forum. Maybe Arin will come in with some updated news but right now if you go get the update, you'll get charged. I didn't mind paying this time. I got all the other updates and installs for free. Still got the install for free.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Firstly, thanks for the review! We work hard on these things and it's nice to hear about people enjoying them.
> 
> As to the rattle, I've not heard anything like that on a TT-RS that we've had here. I'll run it by one of our master hardware techs. Perhaps they'll have better insight.


Hey Sean,

Any updates on that noise? It seems to be many are experiencing it.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sorry for not replying earlier. We offered the discount on early flashes. Sales has all the dates and should not bill if it's before the cut off.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry for not replying earlier. We offered the discount on early flashes. Sales has all the dates and should not bill if it's before the cut off.


What about the rattle type noise being experienced under throttle in the lower RPMs after the flash?

It's very pronounced when going up a windy road when you are on the throttle a lot.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> What about the rattle type noise being experienced under throttle in the lower RPMs after the flash?
> 
> It's very pronounced when going up a windy road when you are on the throttle a lot.


We're not ignoring you. It's on the list of things to look into the next time we have a Stage 1 or 2 car available. It's not something we experienced on our either of the two test cars we have here now (both Stage 3) or the Stage 2 test car we returned to the customer a while ago.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> We're not ignoring you. It's on the list of things to look into the next time we have a Stage 1 or 2 car available. It's not something we experienced on our either of the two test cars we have here now (both Stage 3) or the Stage 2 test car we returned to the customer a while ago.


Ok, thanks.

Knowing that you have not experienced this on your test cars worries me a little.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry for not replying earlier. We offered the discount on early flashes. Sales has all the dates and should not bill if it's before the cut off.


Sounds like it was for the original sales before flashing was available at dealers (back when you had to ship the ECU to APR directly).


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry for not replying earlier. We offered the discount on early flashes. Sales has all the dates and should not bill if it's before the cut off.


What is the cutoff date?
Lots of us shipped our ECU's out to you after that post, and would like to know..


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> Ok, thanks.
> 
> Knowing that you have not experienced this on your test cars worries me a little.


Can you record it with your phone? If so, I'd like to hear it. I'll pass it along to the hardware guys. That's more than we've got now.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Can you record it with your phone? If so, I'd like to hear it. I'll pass it along to the hardware guys. That's more than we've got now.


If you've got an E-mail address that will take an attachment that's ~24MB I can send you a video I just recorded. I'd rather get the raw video to you instead of putting it on YouTube or something since any encoding might lose some of the sound. The audio's a bit quiet, so headphones are required.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

joneze93tsi said:


> What is the cutoff date?
> Lots of us shipped our ECU's out to you after that post, and would like to know..


Original flash date must be before October 2012.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Original flash date must be before October 2012.


Were you able to connect with Scottyb on getting his video of the noise? I can't get a good enough quality audio from my phone.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

TRZ06 said:


> Were you able to connect with Scottyb on getting his video of the noise? I can't get a good enough quality audio from my phone.


I sent Sean a copy of the vid. Just waiting to hear back from the engineering folks.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> Were you able to connect with Scottyb on getting his video of the noise? I can't get a good enough quality audio from my phone.


Yes and I passed it along to someone that knows more about that car than I do.


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

so for the sake of clarity, this upgrade is not free to folks that already have an APR tune?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Timster said:


> so for the sake of clarity, this upgrade is not free to folks that already have an APR tune?



It is if you got it before:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...udi-TT-RS!&p=84182361&viewfull=1#post84182361


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

joneze93tsi said:


> It is if you got it before:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...udi-TT-RS!&p=84182361&viewfull=1#post84182361


Cool, thanks buddy!


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## Audi RS3 (Apr 20, 2011)

I got APR Stage2 software in the last week and I haven't got any program switching, why???


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

Audi RS3 said:


> I got APR Stage2 software in the last week and I haven't got any program switching, why???


It's an addon, not part of it.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Yes and I passed it along to someone that knows more about that car than I do.


Any updates on this?


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> Any updates on this?





RTErnie said:


> After changing the oil in the car the noise was signifcantly reduced. So it is a mechanical noise.
> 
> I suspect the variable cam sprocket or chain noise... or the HPFP. I'll let you guys know more when I do.
> 
> -Eric




Eric does all the TT-RS stuff. He knows about it and he's looking into it. It's nothing to worry about, we've got cars with lots of miles after tuning and no valve-train issues. It's not something that can be explored fully in a day, this is probably something that will require exploration the next time we tear down a TT-RS engine and none of us really have any idea when we'll do that again.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

TRZ06 said:


> Any updates on this?


Bump!


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

sc0ttyb said:


> Bump!


Yeah, they have gone silent. I got a PM saying it might be a cam timing thing, but have not heard anything since. 

Not impressed with that position. I'm a fair guy and a straight shooter and I call it as I see it. And I am getting a sour taste in my mouth.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

TRZ06 said:


> Yeah, they have gone silent.


We haven't. We just don't have anything to report. 

Is this what you're hearing?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5601755-TTRS-Strange-sound-when-cold-over-2k-RPM


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> We haven't. We just don't have anything to report.
> 
> Is this what you're hearing?
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5601755-TTRS-Strange-sound-when-cold-over-2k-RPM


I don't think so... Mine does it all the time regardless of engine temp.

Also it does not do it on the stock tune.


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## 311-in-337 (Feb 19, 2003)

TRZ06 said:


> I don't think so... Mine does it all the time regardless of engine temp.
> 
> Also it does not do it on the stock tune.



Great, yet another reason to hold off on the APR tune. 


How long will it take for this fix....?


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

311-in-337 said:


> Great, yet another reason to hold off on the APR tune.
> 
> 
> How long will it take for this fix....?


Don't get me wrong, the tune is great, especially when compared to Stasis, BUT the noise is bothersome. Especially annoying when you are under load like when carving up a mountain/canyon road. It makes the car sound like sh*t and unrefined.

Additionally with the expense of the motors in these things, I want to know that it isn't causing pre-mature wear somewhere.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

It doesn't sound like the timing chain rattle in that other thread because that seems to happen only when the throttle is released. The noise I'm hearing is happening under load, most pronounced between 3-4K RPM, not at WOT. The other day it was constantly there and really annoying (the ESC light also came on but went away once I restarted the car and has yet to come back on; haven't checked with VCDS yet). Today, I didn't hear it at all.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

Come on APR, make this a priority. Not just a wait and see back-burner thing.

Stage 2 is in my head for down the road, but won't even consider it if I am not taken care of as a customer at the stage 1 level.

BTW, I got the ESC light as well the other day, went away after I cycled the ignition switch. Has not come back on yet.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

sc0ttyb said:


> It doesn't sound like the timing chain rattle in that other thread because that seems to happen only when the throttle is released. The noise I'm hearing is happening under load, most pronounced between 3-4K RPM, not at WOT. The other day it was constantly there and really annoying (the ESC light also came on but went away once I restarted the car and has yet to come back on; haven't checked with VCDS yet). Today, I didn't hear it at all.


Exactly, mine is also under load and seems to stop for the most part around 4500 RPM or so. But yes, very annoying.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Do you guys have program switching? If so, could you switch back and forth between stock and APR tune back to back to
Show how the noise differs?


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Marty said:


> Do you guys have program switching? If so, could you switch back and forth between stock and APR tune back to back to
> Show how the noise differs?


I don't so I can't without going back to the dealer. All I know is that the noise wasn't there stock.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

sc0ttyb said:


> I don't so I can't without going back to the dealer. All I know is that the noise wasn't there stock.


Seems like it would be worth investing in the program switching for diagnostic purposes.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Marty said:


> Seems like it would be worth investing in the program switching for diagnostic purposes.


I wasn't really planning on buying program switching because I don't really want or need it. I'd be more interested in knowing what I can possibly log with VCDS that could maybe point to something.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

sc0ttyb said:


> I wasn't really planning on buying program switching because I don't really want or need it. I'd be more interested in knowing what I can possibly log with VCDS that could maybe point to something.


I want program switching just for Valet mode!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

TRZ06 said:


> I got the ESC light as well the other day.


Please get me the code.


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

Marty said:


> Do you guys have program switching? If so, could you switch back and forth between stock and APR tune back to back to
> Show how the noise differs?


I have switching and did switch it back to stock to test just after I was flashed (stage 2) and there was no noise in stock tune.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Marty said:


> I want program switching just for Valet mode!


You trust valets a whole lot more than I do, haha!


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Please get me the code.


Charging my netbook and then I'll see if the code's still there. Should be since I haven't wiped it.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Whoever said HPFP may be onto something:


```
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CEP)       Labels: 07K-907-404-CEP.clb
   Part No SW: 8J0 907 404 R    HW: 8J0 907 404 M
   Component: 2.5l R5/4V TFSI     0010  
   Revision: F7H07---    Serial number: AUX7Z0LDFNH06B
   Coding: 0113000A180F0160
   Shop #: WSC 01236 785 00200
   VCID: 3C7CA2957F6AA9FE88B-8069

2 Faults Found:
005634 - Power Supply Terminal 30 
               P1602 - 002 - Voltage too Low - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 0 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Temperature: -40.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 0.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 0.000 V

000136 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure 
               P0088 - 001 - Too High - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 1895 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2013.11.19
                    Time: 13:55:12

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 703 /min
                    Load: 5.1 %
                    Speed: 32.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 91.0°C
                    Temperature: 54.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 960.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 14.605 V

Readiness: 0000 0000
```


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

sc0ttyb said:


> Whoever said HPFP may be onto something:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...



Sounds familiar. I have had this issue even stock, so while it is an issue, it's not related to the tune or the noise issue. 

The noise issue is directly related to a parameter changed on the APR tune


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

TRZ06 said:


> Sounds familiar. I have had this issue even stock, so while it is an issue, it's not related to the tune or the noise issue.
> 
> The noise issue is directly related to a parameter changed on the APR tune


You've had that fuel code thrown before stock? The low voltage one I could see as being something that happened from when I was in the process of being bench-flashed. The fuel one was only a few days ago and I've been flashed since the end of the fall sale.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

sc0ttyb said:


> You've had that fuel code thrown before stock? The low voltage one I could see as being something that happened from when I was in the process of being bench-flashed. The fuel one was only a few days ago and I've been flashed since the end of the fall sale.


Well, I can't say it was that exact code, but it was the ESC light. Dealer called a HPFP high pressure sensor reading. They replaced the sensor.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Please get me the code.


I can try to get it for you, but it's unrelated to the metallic sound that only appeared after the tune.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

TRZ06 said:


> I can try to get it for you, but it's unrelated to the metallic sound that only appeared after the tune.


It doesn't hurt to check. : )


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Any update on this? Understandably you guys were most likely not working during Thanksgiving, so anything new this week?


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

sc0ttyb said:


> Any update on this? Understandably you guys were most likely not working during Thanksgiving, so anything new this week?


I don't think they are too interested in resolving this issue.

I have already in my mind decided against moving to the stage 2. Or that new mobile app thingy. I just refuse to buy anything else when they don't make an effort to resolve this issue.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

If you have a noise obviously it must be mechanically related not software related.
Maybe the extra boost is showing a weakness in another component,boost valve etc ?
I know from past experiences,sometimes it can take ages locating where a noise is coming from.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

jaybyme said:


> If you have a noise obviously it must be mechanically related not software related.
> Maybe the extra boost is showing a weakness in another component,boost valve etc ?
> I know from past experiences,sometimes it can take ages locating where a noise is coming from.


The noise itself might be mechanical but it most certainly is software related since it did not exist before I was flashed. My question is what was changed in the software that would cause this. Software changes alter the normal operational parameters of the mechanical components of the engine because that's what they're designed to do; otherwise, flashing would be pointless since it wouldn't actually do anything. Something was changed from the OEM software that was introduced in the APR software that is causing this noise, and that's what I'm interested in. I don't want assurances that it's a benign thing without someone actually discovering the cause first.

It's already been confirmed to be happening by APR themselves as noted in this very thread. That's why I'm periodically checking for updates so it doesn't drop off the radar.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

must be something mechanical and boost related,certainly not a common problem.I know it's hard but can you pin point where the noise is coming from ?


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> I don't think they are too interested in resolving this issue.
> 
> I have already in my mind decided against moving to the stage 2. Or that new mobile app thingy. I just refuse to buy anything else when they don't make an effort to resolve this issue.


Make an effort? How many PMs have you gotten from us ? I can count 3 from me. How many posts have been made about this? How many answers/explanations have we given?

I told you when this was first brought up that we were pretty sure what caused it and that it was benign. I further told you that verifying it would require an engine tear-down. Also remember that we have this flash on a LOT of TT-RS, many with significant mileage and no problems. Our own car has somewhere near 30k miles, most of them with some variation of the Stage 3 kit installed.

I'm not sure what your expectation is, but I get the distinct impression that nothing short of taking our car offline for a week while we tear down the engine and verify this, oh, and doing it immediately will satisfy you. 

I've flown half-way around the world to diagnose and solve complicated problems. APR stands behind our stuff 100%, as anyone who has encountered a real problem can attest. But, this does not rise to that level.

We are pretty sure we know the source and we spent significant time coming up with a specific test to verify it. However, we don't currently have an engine we can take apart to perform that test. When we have a TT-RS engine apart (likely within the next couple weeks), you'll get verification.

Until then, please relax a little bit. There's nothing wrong with your car. It's not going to blow up. The noise isn't even loud enough to be audible over exhaust noise in the recordings I've been sent.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

jaybyme said:


> must be something mechanical and boost related,certainly not a common problem.I know it's hard but can you pin point where the noise is coming from ?


We're pretty sure it's noise from the cam gears when the variable timing does it's thing. I can't discuss specific details of what's in our calibration, but I can say that the explanation exactly fits with the symptoms as reported. Particularly the bit about the noise not being audible in the stock tune.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so far i have experience the timing chain rattle, no big deal i let the car warm up before i push it

but lately i got a new noise, turns out the exhaust valve rattles/buzzes around 2k under power, its going bad, if you turn on sport mode there is no noise, only with sport mode off, also heard its not replaceable they need to replace the entire rear end of the exhaust...


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> so far i have experience the timing chain rattle, no big deal i let the car warm up before i push it
> 
> but lately i got a new noise, turns out the exhaust valve rattles/buzzes around 2k under power, its going bad, if you turn on sport mode there is no noise, only with sport mode off, also heard its not replaceable they need to replace the entire rear end of the exhaust...


That sucks... I have 0 experience with a TT-RS with stock exhaust, so I've never heard that one. I'm surprised though, usually Audi exhausts and those valves are pretty solid. They've been making them that way for a long time.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Make an effort? How many PMs have you gotten from us ? I can count 3 from me. How many posts have been made about this? How many answers/explanations have we given?
> 
> I told you when this was first brought up that we were pretty sure what caused it and that it was benign. I further told you that verifying it would require an engine tear-down. Also remember that we have this flash on a LOT of TT-RS, many with significant mileage and no problems. Our own car has somewhere near 30k miles, most of them with some variation of the Stage 3 kit installed.
> 
> ...


First off, I have no desire to go back and forth and other than the noise I am happy with the tune.

However the noise really does ruin the experience for me. People buy higher end sports cars partly because they want to go beyond the "stick a v8 turbo into a civic" route and expect a certain level of refinement. This noise (which is very pronounced) makes the overall experience very unrefined and ghetto like.

Sure every time you step on the gas you get a nice increased thrust over stock, but it is then met with a very annoying and sick sounding "rattle" . 

My expectation is for a tune that increases performance, without any negative effects. My expectations from APR is not a "this is what we believe it is", but a positive diagnosis AND MORE IMPORTANTLY a recalibration in the tune to get rid of it. 

I had the Stasis tune before yours and while your tune is way better with more gains, that tune did not give any negative noises. APR's throttle mapping is head and shoulders better than Stasis (my biggest complaint), but the refinement is missing.

You fix that noise (not just identify it) and I will be a 100% satisfied customer.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> First off, I have no desire to go back and forth and other than the noise I am happy with the tune.
> 
> However the noise really does ruin the experience for me. People buy higher end sports cars partly because they want to go beyond the "stick a v8 turbo into a civic" route and expect a certain level of refinement. This noise (which is very pronounced) makes the overall experience very unrefined and ghetto like.
> 
> ...


Well, either the problem you're having isn't the one we're talking about, or your expectations are not reasonable.

I'm going to assume that the first is the case. ScottyB sent us a recording and without running it through analysis software, we couldn't even find the noise. After enhancing certain frequency bands, we were able to hear it. At which point, we realized that it's the same noise that all of our cars make.

But, it's barely perceptible unless you're specifically trying to hear it and it certainly doesn't rise to the level of annoyance that you're describing.

So, before this discussion goes any further, we need a recording of the sound your car is making. I'm not making any more judgements or any further evaluations until we know exactly what we're dealing with.

I'll PM you my email address. A phone recording should suffice, but please play it back and make sure the noise is noticeable. I don't want to be chasing the wrong thing.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Well, either the problem you're having isn't the one we're talking about, or your expectations are not reasonable.
> 
> I'm going to assume that the first is the case. ScottyB sent us a recording and without running it through analysis software, we couldn't even find the noise. After enhancing certain frequency bands, we were able to hear it. At which point, we realized that it's the same noise that all of our cars make.
> 
> ...


I can try to get a recording of it but with road noise, etc., and only my iPhone to try to capture it, it might be difficult. I assure you though that it is VERY noticeable. If it was barely there, I wouldn't be complaining about it. Trust me, it is VERY pronounced, especially when the car is under load.

I did have Christian at 034 take a ride with me the next day after I had the tune done and he noted it as well and said he was going to contact you all about it.

One side note I will add is before I got the APR tune, I had the most recent version of Audi's ECU updates, and when 034 went to flash my car, they had an issue and couldn't get it to take. So they had to install the "stock" tune that APR had (but I am unsure it that is the latest Audi version) and then re-flash the APR tune.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

Granted, that video I sent was from a cellphone, and cellphones are not typically known for fidelity. I'm glad you could pick up the noise with a little sound work, though. If you were to ride in my car, I assure you that it would be quite audible, despite what my phone actually picked up. This is mainly why I suggested wearing headphones before listening. It's especially noticeable when driving in a tunnel or down a street with walls close to the road where you can hear it bouncing off. It only seems to happen between the 3-4K range typically, so it's not there all the time.

Sean's answer is satisfactory for me right now until there is absolute certainty.

Though come to think of it, I wonder if I can replicate it while in neutral. Then, I could just pop the hood and record the sound more directly with less ambient noise. I'll see about that later today. I am pretty certain Sean and I are on the same page in terms of the sound I'm hearing, but I'll do another video if I can because there's no such thing as too much information when you're trying to troubleshoot.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I do have a stage 2 customer coming in for a little work so it's possible we can attempt to repeat the same sound with his car while it's here.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

sc0ttyb said:


> Whoever said HPFP may be onto something:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


That HPFP pressure too high fault is interesting... probably doesn't have anything to do with this noise being reported. However, my 2011 mk6 GTI with an APR Stage 2 tune had that same fault code on and off the entire time that I had it flashed (and running on the 91 or higher APR tunes). Changing the fuel rail pressure sensor didn't resolve the issue and I could make it trow the code almost at will. Tired having the GTI reflashed by APR (thanks Arin!), but the SW versions available about a year ago did not resolve the problem. Ended up locking the GTI in "stock" tune mode, putting the hard parts back to stock, and trading it in at the local VW dealer late this past summer. 

Good luck getting the noise/engine rattle resolved!


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

hightechrdn said:


> That HPFP pressure too high fault is interesting... probably doesn't have anything to do with this noise being reported. However, my 2011 mk6 GTI with an APR Stage 2 tune had that same fault code on and off the entire time that I had it flashed (and running on the 91 or higher APR tunes). Changing the fuel rail pressure sensor didn't resolve the issue and I could make it trow the code almost at will. Tired having the GTI reflashed by APR (thanks Arin!), but the SW versions available about a year ago did not resolve the problem. Ended up locking the GTI in "stock" tune mode, putting the hard parts back to stock, and trading it in at the local VW dealer late this past summer.
> 
> Good luck getting the noise/engine rattle resolved!


You might be on to something there...

The new upcoming M3/M4 looks very interesting....

With the exception of the MSS springs (which are amazing), I have been unimpressed with the aftermarket on the TTRS.

In stock form the TTRS just isn't extreme enough for me. I think I am over the aftermarket for engine work and want something that performs out of the box. 

That is what I have always loved about the Z06. I just need four seats since I have an 8yo


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2004)

I have our stage 3 TTRS and a stage 2 TTRS to work on an update for s1/s2/s3 TTRS flashes. This is on my list. We have not forgotten, we are not avoiding this, we are simply very busy. APR will report back when we know what makes the noise.


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## sc0ttyb (Apr 12, 2007)

RTErnie said:


> I have our stage 3 TTRS and a stage 2 TTRS to work on an update for s1/s2/s3 TTRS flashes. This is on my list. We have not forgotten, we are not avoiding this, we are simply very busy. APR will report back when we know what makes the noise.


Awesome, thanks for the update. Please keep us posted!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

RTErnie said:


> I have our stage 3 TTRS and a stage 2 TTRS to work on an update for s1/s2/s3 TTRS flashes. This is on my list. We have not forgotten, we are not avoiding this, we are simply very busy. APR will report back when we know what makes the noise.


Ooo what's in the update?  I will be a happy camper the day we can do updates via APR Mobile!


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## Optimus812 (May 5, 2012)

Good to hear an update to this rattle noise is on the horizon, other than the noise and my slipping clutch, my stage ii has been running pretty well. :thumbup:


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

How many cars have had problems with this rattle,not heard of any in Europe ?


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