# Thinking Routan..



## turborave (Jun 13, 2001)

i have a 2001 VW jetta, wife has a 2008 Mariner.. both have about the same mileage, about 100k. i only drive my car about 3x a week about 20 miles a day. 

but sadly my car's value is only about $2500  its in great shape but thats sad truth, her car is worth about 10k.. we have 2 kids, 3 yrs old and 8 month old and her mariner can only hold us and the auto sliding doors would be a big help.. so we were looking at the Odyssey, the Sienna.. 

my sister has a Routan and its built off the Grand Caravan platform, so we are considering it.. we havent made it out to the dealership to check on out yet. but over all, whats the feeling on them from the group here? good? better than the honda and toyota? its about few thousand more than similarly equipped models. we are thinking '12 or '13 model year. any input is helpful!


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## tuanies (Oct 16, 2009)

There is no 2013 model year so if you can find a 2012, jump on it because the incentives are good


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## thenew3 (Jun 18, 2006)

there are a number of 2012's left and dealers are easily knocking $10k off them without even trying hard to negotiate.

Keep in mind the value of these things drop like a rock. I've seen several 2010 and 2011 Routan SE's on the dealers lot with 20k miles listed for $15k to $18k.

I almost signed the purchase contract on a SEL premium until I looked at how quickly they drop in value.

Also many people seem to be having problems with brakes warping pre-maturely. Not sure if that's fixed in the latest model.

Dealer says 2013 will be coming in but is delayed. Some kind of production issue. they expect to get them in around December. But those won't be as heavily discounted as the 2012's are right now.

Earlier this summer I saw my dealer list a brand new 2012 SE with RSE that stickered at $35k on sale for just under $19k. talk about a great deal!


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## turborave (Jun 13, 2001)

rse = rear seat entertainment?


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

turborave said:


> rse = rear seat entertainment?


Affirmative. 

VW did a fire-sale of Routans the past month or two and unloaded a LOT of inventory with extremely heavy discounting. Not more than a few still listed on the web-sites of the metro Atlanta dealerships. There's a bit of confusion whether the MY '13 Routans are merely delayed, or if VW managed to get out of the contract with Chryco and there will be no 2013. Based on anecdotal evidence, many speculate that there will be no '13 Routan and VW was trying to fire-sale all the '12s to get them off the lots before making the official announcement.

poster above is correct about depreciation though - resale values have plummetted.

Research brake issues here. Not everyone experiences the problems, but it is quite common. Many dealerships are honoring past warranty, but hit or miss. The cost of replacement brakes ain't cheap if you get hit out-of-pocket.


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## artnmshn (Jan 28, 2011)

PLEASE do your research!!

we have a 2010 SE RSE/Nav and can't stand it! It was great to begin with, roomy, spacious, great vehicle for our family of 5... now with 34,000 on the vehicle. 4 sets of new brakes, new transmission, new valve body, new master cylinder, new head unit, fading front grill(garage kept) and many many other issues. 2000 miles on the warranty and i am starting to get worried, if i had to pay for these repairs, how much would they cost me. No vehicle is perfect, but of the 12 that we have purchased since 2000, this one is by far the worst! only consolation here is our VW dealership has been FANTASTIC with all of these issues. OR we either got a "Friday-Vehicle" or a "Monday-Vehicle"

Good Luck


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## luckeydoug1 (Feb 11, 2001)

artnmshn said:


> PLEASE do your research!!
> 
> we have a 2010 SE RSE/Nav and can't stand it! It was great to begin with, roomy, spacious, great vehicle for our family of 5... now with 34,000 on the vehicle. 4 sets of new brakes, new transmission, new valve body, new master cylinder, new head unit, fading front grill(garage kept) and many many other issues. 2000 miles on the warranty and i am starting to get worried, if i had to pay for these repairs, how much would they cost me. No vehicle is perfect, but of the 12 that we have purchased since 2000, this one is by far the worst! only consolation here is our VW dealership has been FANTASTIC with all of these issues. OR we either got a "Friday-Vehicle" or a "Monday-Vehicle"
> 
> Good Luck


Run Forest, Run!!

We kept our 2010 for 1 year and about 7500 miles. Took a beating on the trade, but the vehicle wouldn't stop within a safe distance (and we didn't even have the warping issues yet). We traded it in on a Touareg.

I would not have another one, even if it were given to me..... This was the 2nd worst vehicle I have ever owned in 40 years of automobile ownership. (The worst was a 1987 Ford Econoline 250 extended custom van).


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## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*Go ahead, buy the Routan.*

Please keep in mind that the majority of complaints come from owners of '09s and '10s, and the '11s and '12s have been vastly improved. Secondly, It's hard to pass up the discounts that are out now. Imagine buying a vehicle with so many features and S-P-A-C-E. $24K can't buy as much elsewhere. The telling tale on the '13s: The Routan is no longer shown in any VW advertising, but that won't affect anything about buying a '12, except great pricing, which kind of makes the resale value not matter as much. Also, the Routan is entirely made by Chrysler, and getting parts will be no problem. VW sold about 48,000 Routans over the 4 year run, with the original estimated yearly sales set at 50,000 a year. Can't blame VW for discontinuing the Routan. Lets just hope VW comes out with some kind of equal replacement.


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## tuanies (Oct 16, 2009)

Ours is at 12k miles on our 2011 so far. Only problem was a plastic clip broke off the rear trunk grab handle, which the dealership fixed by replacing the clip. 

However, our 2011 is a post-Fiat model and Chrysler quality control was way better after the Fiat takeover and the 3.6L motor has been great. Most of the reported problems are with 2009 and 2010 models with the 3.8L or 4.0L. 

Haven't had any issues with the brakes yet, I have no problems with the stopping distance, its a minivan not a sports car and it doesn't do an worse than my 2000 528i wagon. 

I swear, just by reading all the brake problems has made me paranoid, but again still no issues. My last car, an HHR SS had a lot of owners reporting premature brake wear and rotor warpage as well yet I managed to get to 45k with the stock pads and they still had a little life left when I traded it in.

I'm not very heavy on the brakes though, regardless of what car I drive.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

We have a 2010 SEL with almost 40K on the clock. Has been top notch. Yes, it's on it's third set of rotors all the way around and pads, we didn't pay a dime for them. So when the pads are shot this time the brakes will be on me which I assume is around 48-50K. So that will be the FIRST brake job I pay for. I'll be going with aftermarket brakes which seem to be made better and last longer and have a warranty against warpage. So if I can get another 40-50K from those rotors, I'll take that. I know luckydoug1 didn't have a safe feeling with his stopping distance, our brakes seem so sensative that I could probably put myself through the windshield. I bought the extended warranty for our van, I'm sure that was a waste of $1700 that I won't get my value out of. I feel very confident about our Routan. Use your best judgement but cut your best deal these are not vehicles to get into and then quickly dump, you'll lose your shirt. Plan to be in the vehicle for 5-6 years. If I were looking to replace ours now, I'd sign back up, it fits our bill right now.

Only other issues we had were:
Roof strip buckled, they're only adhered with adhesive, dealer fixed under warranty, twice(I think they messed up the first time).
Brakes 3 times replaced under warranty
Coolant "Y" cracked and leaked replaced under warranty, after the warranty expired
Had an issue with the in-dash DVD player searching for a disc 3 times, hasn't don it in over a year probably.


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## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

I am hard on the Routan, in that I expect perfection, like with my Volvos, and it is not there. There is nothing wrong with the Routan per say. Ours has about 27k on it and will be around until it is financially reasonable to replace it, 5 or so years from now.


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## TCM GLX (Jan 2, 2000)

58kafer said:


> We have a 2010 SEL with almost 40K on the clock. Has been top notch. Yes, it's on it's third set of rotors all the way around and pads, we didn't pay a dime for them. So when the pads are shot this time the brakes will be on me which I assume is around 48-50K. So that will be the FIRST brake job I pay for. I'll be going with aftermarket brakes which seem to be made better and last longer and have a warranty against warpage. So if I can get another 40-50K from those rotors, I'll take that. I know luckydoug1 didn't have a safe feeling with his stopping distance, our brakes seem so sensative that I could probably put myself through the windshield. I bought the extended warranty for our van, I'm sure that was a waste of $1700 that I won't get my value out of. I feel very confident about our Routan. Use your best judgement but cut your best deal these are not vehicles to get into and then quickly dump, you'll lose your shirt. Plan to be in the vehicle for 5-6 years. If I were looking to replace ours now, I'd sign back up, it fits our bill right now.
> .


I am on the exact same boat as Kafer.... currently 37K miles, and no issues at all... top notch for my wife and our two girls. The TVs kick butt, the brakes suck but the dealer keeps replacing them so it doesnt bother me as much. 

The brakes have been going bad about every 12K, so it works... every other oil change the delaer gives me a new set. This last set was supposed to be some sort of upgrade, we shall see. 

We also purchased the Ext warranty, and plan to keep it for 5-6 yrs.. once the girls can jump in on there own, we will look into a Touareg or something of that effect....


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## taxman100 (Apr 30, 2011)

We've got a little over 20,000 miles on our 2011. The only issue I have had is a rattle from either the sliding door, or the rear hatch. We've never had any brake issues as of yet, but if we did, I'd look at replacing the rotors with high quality aftermarket once the warranty expires. I've done a lot of brake jobs, so I doubt it would be that difficult to do in an afternoon. 

There are a few quirks with the vehicle - 


the rough 1-2 shift when cold and the eco button pushed - leave the eco off when van is cold
sometimes the wipers go on for one swipe when I start the van - no big deal
the back-up camera seems to take too long to come one when the van is started - this one I will probably bring up to the dealer.
Oil changeindicator comes on every 4000 miles, so no way 8,000 miles works for me - dealer has changed the oil. 
Other than that - fuel economy on the highway is outstanding with the 3.6, and we've didn't have any cosmetic build issues. 

I'd look at the Routan as different trim lines for the Town & Country. Comparing those two, the Routan is substantially cheaper if you shop around, plus it comes with 3 years free maintenance. 

One thing on the 2013's - Chrysler is building tons of the new $19,995 version of the Grand Caravan, so maybe Volkswagen is content to clear out the 2012's for a while.

One other thing - the EPA has fuel economy ratings for the 2013 Routan, so "The Man" in Washington assumes they will be forthcoming.


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## haunted reality (Apr 18, 2001)

We're on our second one. Had a 2009 3.8 that was a POS, many issues way to early. VW helped out and we got into a 2011, much better. We have 15k on the 2011, no issues so far. By now the other one had to have a new tranny among other issues. Oh yeah it liked to eat brakes. Also, the rumor is the T&C goes away and only the Grand Caravan remains. VW will no doubt be done either now or with 2013.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Volvos Rock said:


> I am hard on the Routan, in that I expect perfection, like with my Volvos, and it is not there. There is nothing wrong with the Routan per say. Ours has about 27k on it and will be around until it is financially reasonable to replace it, 5 or so years from now.


 Well, it is basically an American vehicle and as such you'll rarely ever see perfection in an American car (especially if you include the word "cornering"). German engineered and built cars -- I'm guessing Swedish, too -- will give you the perfection you seek. My opinion.

To the OP: It's a mini-van :facepalm: They're just tools to me. When my wife was looking for them there were only two viable options, Honda or VW. We got a helluva lot more for our money on a slightly used VW. Unlike my Squareback (the jury is still out about the Bus) we don't plan on keeping this behemoth for life, that's for freakin' sure!

Good luck with whatever you get, it'll serve it's purpose.


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## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*R.I.P. Routan, now an instant classic.*

Does anyone have actual figures on Routan sales? Autoblog.com is reporting that Routan production ended in Dec. 2011, and that there was a huge inventory backlog back then, hence the decision to cancel further model years. 

EDIT: The comment about Routan production had ended in Dec. 2011 actually was from an article from 2009 and read Dec. 2009. Obviously production continued, but those poor early sales sealed the Routans fate.


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## Chedman13 (May 30, 2012)

Love my 2011 SEL Premium. 20,000 miles.

To me, it was pay $40k for a AWD Sienna or $15k for a Grand Caravan or get a Dodge with window dressing on it.

This VW fits the bill for hauling the family with all the goodies, without paying for it in full price.

I am full confidence in the build quality of the 2011 and would have paid full retail price for it (but even better I didn't even pay close to it  ).


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## showtz (Mar 29, 2011)

luckeydoug1 said:


> Run Forest, Run!!
> 
> We kept our 2010 for 1 year and about 7500 miles. Took a beating on the trade, but the vehicle wouldn't stop within a safe distance (and we didn't even have the warping issues yet). We traded it in on a Touareg.
> 
> I would not have another one, even if it were given to me..... This was the 2nd worst vehicle I have ever owned in 40 years of automobile ownership. (The worst was a 1987 Ford Econoline 250 extended custom van).


Your Routan may have had an issue with the brakes but on paper the Routan has the same 60MPG-0MPH distance as the 2012 Toyota Sienna 130ft. Honda Odyssey is 127ft. Curb Weight is around 4500lb so it will take longer to stop than small cars.


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## luckeydoug1 (Feb 11, 2001)

showtz said:


> Your Routan may have had an issue with the brakes but on paper the Routan has the same 60MPG-0MPH distance as the 2012 Toyota Sienna 130ft. Honda Odyssey is 127ft. Curb Weight is around 4500lb so it will take longer to stop than small cars.


 Same issue with every Routan we drove. There was another gentleman on these forums for awhile with the same problems. He was actually in an accident because of the lack of braking. We had 2 near misses. Around town, low speeds, it probably wouldn't be as noticeable, but at highway speeds, fully loaded, the Routan takes WAAAAAY too long to stop.

This article: http://routanowner.blogspot.com/2010/09/our-cars-2010-volkswagen-routan-fully.html shows a stopping distance of 136' for the Routan unloaded, and is much worse when loaded. But even using your figures of 130', that distance is unacceptable.

BTW, the Touareg outstops the Routan by a big margin (121 ft 60-0). The Touareg is not a small car. It stops like a Volkswagen should. The 3ft better stopping distance for the Honda could be the difference of an accident or no accident. 9ft for the Touareg is significant. We had a situation on the interstate where a tire came flying off a semi and landed in the passing lane. The vehicle in front of us came to a suddden complete stop. We stopped within a foot from that vehicle in our Touareg.... no accident. 9 - 15 more feet in a Routan (depending on which set of stats you use) would have resulted in an accident. 


Anyway, there will be no Routans for 2013.


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## Chedman13 (May 30, 2012)

Where are the modders with 20x8, 20x10 setup and SRT8 Jeep Brembo Big Brake kit swap? 

Should make the Routan stop with more/larger calipers, larger rotors and more surface area for tire/ground contact.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Chedman13 said:


> Where are the modders with 20x8, 20x10 setup and SRT8 Jeep Brembo Big Brake kit swap?
> 
> Should make the Routan stop with more/larger calipers, larger rotors and more surface area for tire/ground contact.


 Actually, for better stopping power the tire is the first thing to change. A stickier compound will help reduce braking distances but typically at a loss of wear life (which is logical). You move to brake components after the tires and pads and fluid changes don't satisfy you


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## Chedman13 (May 30, 2012)

Air_Cooled_Nut said:


> Actually, for better stopping power the tire is the first thing to change. A stickier compound will help reduce braking distances but typically at a loss of wear life (which is logical). You move to brake components after the tires and pads and fluid changes don't satisfy you


Yeah -- I just use any excuse to upgrade my calipers and rotors. I'm a sucker for a big brake kit.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

:thumbup:


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## OneBrightGator (Oct 11, 2012)

We recently bought our 2012 SE w/o RSE for $22,830. The dealers in Florida don't seem too concerned with moving them off the lots but I do think we got a good deal since the sticker price was $34k. We decided to upgrade to a van after our friends got a 2011 and then we took a rental T&C on a 11-day roadtrip. We have about 1,000 miles on the van so far and my wife and daughter love it. It is most assuredly more minivan than VW (compared to my JSW) but that's what we wanted and comparing it to the other minivans out there it was far and away the best choice.


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## Edsel (Aug 9, 2009)

*Love my 2009 4.0 SEL*

No problems in 30,000 miles. Brakes needed replacement at 28,000 miles but I paid a trusted independent shop to replace them with 3rd party aftermarket components. I didn't want warranty replacement garbage.

I keep my vehicles for 10+ years. When I purchased the Routan my expectations were pretty low. I knew it was a Chrysler/Cerberus/U.S. Treasury/Fiat product but the purchase price was amazing.  It's a utilitarian vehicle and if you keep your expectations in line with the vehicles design purpose, you'll be satisfied with the Routan.


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## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

turborave said:


> ... so we were looking at the Odyssey, the Sienna..
> 
> my sister has a Routan and its built off the Grand Caravan platform, so we are considering it.. we havent made it out to the dealership to check on out yet. *but over all, whats the feeling on them from the group here? good? better than the honda and toyota?* any input is helpful!



To answer your original question, we bought ours because our family has grown to 6 people, and with her car seat, stroller etc., the littlest one definitely takes up the most room. 

It just seems ridiculous that one family has to take 2 cars to go out to McDonald's, do some visiting, or go wherever, and without a minivan it looked like it would be the end of our much enjoyed weekend road trips.

Ok, so we decided that we need a minivan... and I'm still keeping my Jetta 
I have always been a VW man, so the prospect of owning a minivan was not enjoyable.

So we looked at the Honda and Toyota... Nothing special to drive, butt ugly, and expensive! Looked at the Kia and Hyundai... Terrible driving characteristics, look & feel cheap, inside and out, and the used ones that I see all seemed to have damaged interior parts and pieces. And then the T&C and Caravan. Good size, ugly dash (better on the new ones), ugly grills, and old school taillights. Although they drive better than the Kia & Hyundai, they are not as good as the Honda & Toyota.

Then I remembered the Routan... :thumbup: OK, but it's a Caravan... :thumbdown:

It's the best looking minivan by far, inside & out, and has the most comfortable & supportive seats. Taking it for a test drive, I was actually impressed (for a minivan). We have a winner! And, as the wife pointed out, it doesn't have that ugly gash in the side for the sliding doors that some minivans have.

Ok, so we decided on a Routan...
Yeah, it's a pig on gas in the city (compared to my Jetta, as all minivans are), but the hwy mileage is great, and the miles on the hwy go by so effortlessly that the Mrs even drives on road trips now. It holds all our stuff (yeah under floor storage), the kids love the RSE, and the seats are very comfortable and supportive.

I usually drive my vehicles till the wheels fall off, or someone drives into them causing more damage than they are worth. So we plan on keeping our Routan for a long time. As for cost of ownership. Caravans have never been terrible, and with the incentives on the 2012's, I wouldn't be too worried... and besides, the grill says "VW"


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Damn Paul, your story sounds just like mine! I'm keeping my Jetta, too :beer: Though the Mrs. plans on selling her 1.8t Passat (chipped, automatic), which will be nice since it is NOT a drivers car :thumbdown:


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## vwroutan1 (Sep 2, 2012)

very similar story. Kept Jetta (TDI though :thumbup gives me great mileage. I also looked at Honda and Sienna - damn very expensive  and interior not as good as Routan :thumbdown:. Even though tdi club members suggested not to buy Routan, I went ahead and bought one (2012 RSE & Navigation). Love it except small vibration during cold start and Transmission can be better. My only reasoning is similar van (Honda or Sienna) will be be $12K more than Routan and I will buy an extended warranty for 2K and that should cover any gaps :laugh:. I don't know whether I made a stupid decision or not but time will tell at that time I may have to do this :banghead:


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## smd3 (Aug 5, 2001)

Air_Cooled_Nut said:


> Actually, for better stopping power the tire is the first thing to change. A stickier compound will help reduce braking distances but typically at a loss of wear life (which is logical). You move to brake components after the tires and pads and fluid changes don't satisfy you


Normally I might agree, but in the Routan's case, I'm not so sure. I've made a panic stop, and don't recall any ABS action at all. (Dry pavement) If the tires were truly a limiting factor I'd think the brakes would be able to lock them up.

The brakes are woefully inadequate. If anyone knows of any upgrades, I'd gladly go for it. I've done a bit of searching on the Dodge forums, and haven't found of any upgrades for the calipers or master cylinder.

I'm thinking about springing for a set of cryo-rotors, but that still doesn't help braking power.


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