# VR6 Swap into a Audi A4 B5 Information



## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Just making a running thread that I will update the front page with new information on the swap as it comes by me or if anybody posts it up. If you have any new information on parts, part numbers, where to get parts, or anything about a build let me know and i'll get it on here. Pics to come soon.

Things like engine management, turbos, etc will not be listed as that is all a basic turbo/engine build and has nothing to do with the swap itself. Also as of now there is no way to use the stock management to power the VR6 from an Audi. I will only mention if certain turbo manifolds do not fit as that information becomes available.

Apparently a starter from a VR5 will work. I don't know what model car it is, I think it's from the B5 VW Passat in Europe. Same with the flywheel. Two options I did not know about before. Might be able to cut down the price of the swap by a few hundred bucks if you can get those parts from across the pond but that's person specific. I'll get more info on that as I find more.

I'm just putting these here for temp sakes until I can get all the info but there is a guy in Europe who has made a spacer/flywheel adapter to use an Audi 5cyl 7A flywheel in conjunction with a stock VW/Audi/Bosch starter. The starter is from the European VR5 Passat. I have contacted the guy and he said in one of his posts that he'd give out the plans for the spacer/adapter. After I get those plans from him I might have a few made up for us over here in the US in case anybody has access to European parts or people want to shop on ebay.de for the parts. I'm sure the VR5 starters are all over ebay along with the flywheels. In fact you'd probably want to get a L/W flywheel made here in the US that way the only european part is the starter. Starter part numbers are... VW: 012911023 BOSCH: 0001107070. This will be added to the list once I get the rest of the information on the spacer/adapter. The OEM starter also makes it so you don't have to cut/shave anything off for clearance.

Images for the items listed in the last paragraph.




























*Parts List*
Adapter plate - Touareg/ European Phaeton VR6 Adapter Plate, European VR5 Passat Adapter Plate, - 022103551А, 071 103 551A


022103551А
 034
Advanced Automotion

Flywheel


034 - Single Disc - This flywheel uses stock Audi B5 Flywheel Bolts - M10x1x43
034 - Tilton Style/Multi-disc

Clutch - 034's Single Disc Flywheel works with the Audi I5 20v clutches, engines 7A/3B/AAN/ADU. 


Southbend 
Spec Clutch
Clutch Masters FX850 for use with a modified Single Clutch 034 Flywheel

Starter - 034
Timing Chain Cover - MK4 Lower Timing Chain Cover
Valve Cover 


MK4 Plastic
MK3 Aluminum with one end chopped and welded shut

Oil Pan


VR6 Phaeton from Europe - VAG-CAT : The Phaeton pan bolts up and clears everything.
Advanced Automotion​
Modified Touareg w/Modified Sub-Frame - Touareg pan needs to have the bottom cut and welded shut to be not as low and needs the sub-frame to be trimmed on the top. The Touareg pans can be had for 200-300 bucks used from Junkyards/LKQ/Car-Part.com.

Intake Manifold - Any short runner should work but I'd recommend the following two


034
SPA makes a cast one that has a nice output direction and is the same price. Find it on ebay.


*Application Specific Parts*
12v Engine
034 Motor Mounts or Custom Mounts - 034 Mounts are direct to the chassis and do not have any vibration dampening so if you want a smoother ride then you will need to make a set. Also the 034 mounts do not allow for an A/C compressor.

Oil Dip Stick - If using the stock Mk3 dip stick you'll probably encounter problems with the mounting tab with a short runner. I used another left over VW bracket I had and brazed it onto the stock Mk3 dip stick after grinding off the original and it bolts to the oil filter housing.

Starter Mounting - Two places need to be clearanced for the 034 starter to fit. First is the block casting by the lower bolt hole. There needs to be some block ground away so that the starter can swing enough to engage all of the teeth. 2nd, the block casting needs to be clearanced near the oil pan just a little to allow the main power nut for the 034 starter to come off. The VR5 starter shouldn't need this as the connection points are on the solenoid, but I'm not sure on the lower mounting hole.

Depending on your motor mounts you'll have to shave/cut/hack up your front radiator support a fair amount to clear the engine/pullies. Custom fit fans will need to be had.

24v Engine
Motor Mounts - Stock Mount from Touareg/Q7, not 100% sure

You might be asking why a few of these parts are listed. The Mk4 items are for ease of installation. The Mk4 valve cover clears the hood unlike Mk3 ones and requires no modification. The Mk4 timing chain cover has a notch where it bulges out and it doesn't have the extra framing support. The reason why these are removed is because the 01A/01E transmissions won't mount flush if the notch isn't there. You can be cheap and shave part of your transmission off to cut the cost but timing chain covers are cheap. The reason for the new oil pan is to clear the sub frame and to bolt to the transmission. The transmission has two or four bolts that go through the bottom, the Touareg/Phaeton oil pan allow for these to be used.

Somebody got the stock hood latch to work with the swap. I'll see if I can look up that information on that too. I think most people just go with hood pins though for ease of the swap.

After you are done everybody needs to get this from 034.

Adapter Plate









034 Starter + Bolted Up


















Differences in the two timing chain covers. Notice notch that goes in where the timing chain cover bulges out.


















Modified MK3 Timing Chain Cover to fit









Modified Transmission Bell Housing to fit Mk3 Timing Chain Cover









The two valve covers, Mk4 first then Mk3


















Phaeton Oil Pan - Really hard to source here in the states. Being sold for 400+ by two places currently. if anybody has any connections over seas let us know.









Clearance at the bottom of the pan from the stock sub frame









Modified Touareg pan to work for the application. These can be had for 200-300 bucks used.









Sub frame had to be modified to fit the Touareg pan if I am correct. Not 100% sure that it HAD to be modified or not. Either way it's a pretty simple and straight forward change.









SPA's Intake Manifold. Click the 034 link above to view theirs.









034's Engine Cradle/Mount Pics




































The following are custom mounts made by others who have done this swap. Some harder and more complicated than others.




































24v OEM Mounts used in this application on a 24v motor


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## justdrive88 (Mar 31, 2010)

CDJetta said:


> After you are done everybody needs to get this from 034.


:what: Wait a sec....


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Slowly going through my swap. Engine and tranny are pulled from my Audi. VR6 engine is on the stand waiting to be rebuilt. I'll get pics up of the bolting together of the tranny and the engine with the adapter plate. I've heard that some people have drilled extra holes because there aren't many used but my initial bolt up yesterday with the adapter plate to the tranny used seven bolts. Didn't try to get it bolted up to the engine though.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Two things.... 
1. My build is on delay. For New Years I decided to have a bon fire and start it with gas. Not a smart move on my part. Went to light it and it blew up on me giving me 2nd degree burns on my arms and face. So build is postponed for a few weeks while my skin re-grows. 

2. Gave in and I ordered a brand new oil pan from Automation place that I linked in the first post. I was thinking about modifying a Touareg pan but I'm pretty sure the sub frame still needs to be modified with that and there's already enough stuff to deal with. That should be here in a few days.


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## allessence (May 10, 2010)

Love the write up. Keep it coming. Have you thought about using an ECU from a 2.7T and then using Maestro7 for tuning? 

I've been using Maestro on a 1.8t for the last few weeks and it doe offer lots of adjustments once one figures out what each item does. 

My plan at some point will be to install a SAAB 2.3T into the 2001A4Q though this looks really interesting.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

CDJetta said:


> Two things....
> 1. My build is on delay. For New Years I decided to have a bon fire and start it with gas. Not a smart move on my part. Went to light it and it blew up on me giving me 2nd degree burns on my arms and face. So build is postponed for a few weeks while my skin re-grows.


 First, I hope you heal quickly. Second: :laugh: I'm laughing because I know two people that have done the same thing, both got burned pretty good (nothing serious, which is sounds like yours isn't either or you wouldn't be posting). I feel like I should treat you the same as my friends so I'll tell you what I told them: Dumbass!  

Good luck on the build, this looks pretty cool!


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Yeah. That's pretty much what everybody says. I hope you heal fine, retard.  Which yeah, it was a super dumb thing to do but I blame it on the alcohol.  Hopefully I heal soon and I can get working on it again. At the point right now where I just need to go to the local hardware store and get a ton of bolts and nuts to put the whole monstrosity together but I gotta wait for the oilpan to come in first.


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## Euroxk3 (Apr 18, 2008)

Does it matter if the b5 was a 1.8t or 2.8 prior to the swap. I've looked around and cant find the answer.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Nope. The subframes should be the same between the two and the transmission should be the same, a 01A. I've heard the 01A is good for 500-600 or so till things break. The 01E in the S4's is good for 800+. I'm going with the 01A to see how it lasts in the 600whp range. If it breaks, I'll get a S4 trans setup.


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## CoopaCoopaCoopa (Apr 25, 2009)

Any estimation at a final cost to have it running? 


This is a really good write up, keep it goin! :thumbup:


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Probably going to be around 10k at minimum when all said and done. I still need to purchase standalone, fueling, ignition, turbo, piping, coolant lines.


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## Audi2ptzero (May 28, 2003)

CDJetta said:


> Nope. The subframes should be the same between the two and the transmission should be the same, a 01A. I've heard the 01A is good for 500-600 or so till things break. The 01E in the S4's is good for 800+. I'm going with the 01A to see how it lasts in the 600whp range. If it breaks, I'll get a S4 trans setup.


You will need a 01E if you plan on making more then 500whp. I know people that have broken the 01A's even when making 400whp. I was lucky enough to get mine to hold together while making 500-570whp, but the minute I started making 600whp 3rd gear just kept letting go just as I shifted into that gear. I broke 2 within a few weeks of each other on the first test run of each one.

If you plan on running a 01A you might want to use a flow control valve to slip the clutch.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Oh I plan on it breaking.  I just want to get the car up and running on low boost before I go and dump 1500 bucks into the 01E swap.


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## b5a4gt28 (Oct 8, 2007)

CDJetta you the man.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Re-did some of the info up top to be more organized but nothing new on my car.  Still waiting for that oil pan to come in so that I can get it all bolted up and fitted into the car. Should have came in last week.


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## CRAIG1MACK (Mar 26, 2000)

Great write up - thanks alot man :beer:


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Got carried away last weekend. Thought I should make a stand for the vr6 and bolt the tranny to it so I got some of my 1/4" angle scrap and made a engine test stand. Still needs the components for it but it's welded together. Just need to finish up my sand blaster setup and I'll strip it and repaint it. I don't really need the test stand but I've been wanting to make one for a while. Should make bolting it all together and test fitting things a lot easier.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Found some more info. Posting the link here just for reference when I get home from work so I can go through it and add the info to the top. Here's a guy that didn't buy the 034 flywheel. He said he'd offer the adapter/spacer for the audi flywheel so I might send him some money for it so that I can get my hands on it and maybe have a few made up for people that want to go that route. 

He also found the OEM starter that will work. They are all European parts so if you have a connection to that stuff then this could make your swap even easier. Also the OEM starter doesn't require you to modify the block/tranny at all.

http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35242&start=25


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## EuroSportChicago (Jun 9, 2010)

CRAIG1MACK said:


> Great write up - thanks alot man :beer:


x2:beer::beer:


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

I have now added some more info about the alternate flywheel/starter combo that can be had. I will officially put them into the list once I get the rest of the information on the spacer/adapter for said setup.

Note to myself... copy images to my own server so that they stay up for as long as I want them and not other people.


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

Stole my pics!

I woudln't even bother with the 01a. Seriously. Just get the 01e from the beginning. It's not even funny how quickly they break.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Waiting for the 01E is going to put me back another few months at minimum. They use the same clutches and what not so it's not like I'm spending extra cash to do the 01A.  I'm sure it'll break but I'm hoping I can at least get it running and on low boost running 100% with the 01A.


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## vr-vagman (May 15, 2010)

CDJetta said:


> Found some more info. Posting the link here just for reference when I get home from work so I can go through it and add the info to the top. Here's a guy that didn't buy the 034 flywheel. He said he'd offer the adapter/spacer for the audi flywheel so I might send him some money for it so that I can get my hands on it and maybe have a few made up for people that want to go that route.
> 
> He also found the OEM starter that will work. They are all European parts so if you have a connection to that stuff then this could make your swap even easier. Also the OEM starter doesn't require you to modify the block/tranny at all.
> 
> http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35242&start=25


 Hi CDJetta and all members here.
I actually post on VWvortex forums but only on "2.8 12V" and "forced induction" so far. Never had a look here.
So, about my FW adapter. I'm not rich guy and I need money for my project as most of you too. The FW adapter drawing is not for sale though, it is for free. I have sent it already to few members. I just don't want somebody to make profits from my idea.
Here is the drawing. I'm sorry it is the only one I have and is hand made. FW bolts part number is also included. You must consult with metal engineer about the FW adapter material(steel). Better use higher quality one. You could check with attached photo to get better picture of the drawing.
Have to warn you guys though. My project is still in build phase and nothing has been tested for strength etc under real rpm/load conditions. It just fits and matches with all parts around.








That's all. If you need some more info please just ask.
Regards to all !


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Thanks a ton VR-Vagman. From recent threads on the Audizine forums it appears as though the 034 single disc flywheel is having some problems because of their materials they used for the ring gear. So far two users have reported that it has cracked on them or a tooth has broken. I am still far away from putting all my stuff together but if it turns out to be a problem that I have to pay more for then I might switch over to this if your swap turns out to be good to go. I like the thought of being able to use any after-market flywheel out there that is available for the Audi I5 engines. It opens up the choices a lot more.

Thanks for the drawing. I'm going to put it into auto cad and post up that file too for people who don't know auto cad so they can go to their local CNC shop to get one made up too.


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## vr-vagman (May 15, 2010)

Hi, CDJetta,

Think 034 starter has very powerfull magnet to engage the ...bendix?(smal gear) with FW gear. Also think that FW gear could be ordered as OEM part since I believe 034 FW is exact copy of 7A FW just a bit deeper to accept the 30mm wide VR6-01A/E adapter plate. My 7A FW is also lightened about 3 kilos at the back side:









































Also my adaptor plate rework to get one more attaching point to cyl block and to gearbox housing:


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## Fl1pthat (Mar 5, 2010)

Very Nice Set up!


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

If possible, please post the OEM part #'s for the parts associated with the swap... this would help with sourcing from various outlets. :thumbup:


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## DubPerfectionist (Mar 10, 2006)

Can to get me the part number for the phaeton oil pan please? I checked on vag cat but want to make sure it's the right number for my euro connection to look for. Thanks in advance


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## naudia4 (Sep 22, 2007)

DubPerfectionist said:


> Can to get me the part number for the phaeton oil pan please? I checked on vag cat but want to make sure it's the right number for my euro connection to look for. Thanks in advance


Phaeton Oil pan: 022 103 603 D

What are you guys doing as far as power steering pumps go? Stock VR6?


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

I don't have all mine together yet still. I'm slow.  I've got the mounts, pan, tranny, and motor all together right now. Suppose I should test fit the accessories and PS pump. I think 034 used a Corrado pump but I'm not 100% sure on that.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Just looked and I don't see a difference between the two so I don't think it matters. I'll slap it onto the block in a day or two when I get some time.


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## DubPerfectionist (Mar 10, 2006)

Thanks for the part number. I haver got to the p/s set up yet. Let me know if you guys figure anything out. I'm a slow builder too. No time lol


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

any info on running no turbo to start? cost wise? id be building custom mounting brackets, so that would drop the cost a bit. standalone would be the biggest expense. but id need intake mani, starter, adapter plate, and id run stock exhaust mani to custom downpipe. (i work for an exhaust and rolll cage shop) i think i can do this for a reasonable price. then later i could build and boost


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

ThatA4T said:


> any info on running no turbo to start? cost wise? id be building custom mounting brackets, so that would drop the cost a bit. standalone would be the biggest expense. but id need intake mani, starter, adapter plate, and id run stock exhaust mani to custom downpipe. (i work for an exhaust and rolll cage shop) i think i can do this for a reasonable price. then later i could build and boost


Mine is currently "N/A" -- aka open exhaust manifold and I've driven it around the parking lot of the shop a few times, and let me tell you....... it sucks.


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

haenszel said:


> Mine is currently "N/A" -- aka open exhaust manifold and I've driven it around the parking lot of the shop a few times, and let me tell you....... it sucks.


trust me i know it will suck... at first. but im trying to keep in a slight budget as im doing a shaved bay and full respray as we speak. i need an engine currently and and thinking i have more potential in a vr than the 1.8 so later down the road i can go crazy, but for now i can get her up and running after paint, learn the standalone on an N/A car and plan a propper vr build.


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

Also need info on pcv and evap setups? Alternator and ac compressor mounting? Will stock radiator work? Let's get down to the small things and emissions!


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## fbm93 (Mar 25, 2008)

Also interested in rough cost estimate on doing a n/a 24v vr swap :thumbup:

essentially if you know the motor is good you can factor out motor build and turbo costs...which is like 8k haha


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

Exactly and vr6s can be found cheap. And with me building the mounting brackets I can really cut down cost.


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

I don't see the reason to do an NA vr swap. Even then, its not nearly as cheap as you would think.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

ThatA4T said:


> standalone would be the biggest expense.





ThatA4T said:


> Also need info on pcv and evap setups? Alternator and ac compressor mounting? Will stock radiator work? Let's get down to the small things and emissions!


You got a major contradiction there. If you are doing standalone you wont have emissions.

Why do you want to do standalone, if trying to keep costs down, especially if going NA for starters? Just use the obd2 management ME5. It will also support 500+whp on standard chip tuning. Only downfall in a setup this custom is having to run a MAF


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

I get that its not cheap but neither is a 2.0 stroker build. But like I've said n/a would only be temporary. I plan on doing a full turbo build down the road. Just trying to space out costs considering I'm in the middle of a shaved bay project and complete Respray right now. But as far as standalone goes, no matter what u can't pass emissions with standalone? Why is this? Either way my motor is shot so I'm looking into options for when it come time to set something back in.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

I'm still going with the project but it's on hold at the moment. I had two cars that were semi running as daily drivers and they both decided to die on me now so I must divert to repair them. Should be getting more of the small details posted up soon unless others that have done it already want to post anything.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

ThatA4T said:


> But as far as standalone goes, no matter what u can't pass emissions with standalone? Why is this?


Because standalone has no provisions for obd2 emissions testing. Im going to assume since you are worried about that you live in a state that has that type of testing, as i dont believe many do the tailpipe test unless its in conjunction with the obd2 scan. If not then i am wrong

United Motorsport has standard chip tuning for 0bd2 VR6 that will do 500+hp and pass an obd2 scan with no emissions components


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

need info on that drivers side motor mount that holds the A/c Compressor, power steering pump, and alternator. is that the stock 1.8 bracket modified to fit the vr6? need info!!!? i see it says oem mounts used on a 24v sawp. is that oem vr6 mounts? or oem audi mounts? will these mounts only work for a 24v? i plan on going 12v vr6 but i need more info on A/C compressor mounting as well as Power steering pump mounting. do i run 1.8t power steering pump, or vr6 power steering pump? same question for A/C compressor.


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

all vr6 stuff.


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

haenszel said:


> all vr6 stuff.[/QUOTEawesome. Thanks is that bracket only goona work for the 24v? Or will the 12v bracket line up with the motor mount as well? Also as far as evap goes, do I leave the evap hose wide open in the pass side fender? Or do I leave that valve on it and run a harness to it through the standalone?


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

The evaporation line from the gas tank should be connected to the manifold using an early mechanical valve and a check valve (c2 motorsports sells them) to prevent a boost leak. The b5 is notorious for flooding when the evaporation valve is missing or damaged. If you let it hang it would spill quite a bit of gas each time you filled up.


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

DieGTi said:


> The evaporation line from the gas tank should be connected to the manifold using an early mechanical valve and a check valve (c2 motorsports sells them) to prevent a boost leak. The b5 is notorious for flooding when the evaporation valve is missing or damaged. If you let it hang it would spill quite a bit of gas each time you filled up.


What do you mean by flooding? I've never had a problem in both of my b5's that I pulled all that junk out of.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

If left unrestricted then gas flows into the engine while refueling through the evap line. It's a path of least resistance scenario; if you're not using a vapor capture pumping station then there isn't a problem.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

12v and 24v brackets are different. I'm not sure what car the OEM 24v mounts came from as I am not doing a 24v swap. If somebody would like to post up what they are from and some part numbers then I'll add it to the front.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

ThatA4T said:


> haenszel said:
> 
> 
> > all vr6 stuff.[/QUOTEawesome. Thanks is that bracket only goona work for the 24v? Or will the 12v bracket line up with the motor mount as well? Also as far as evap goes, do I leave the evap hose wide open in the pass side fender? Or do I leave that valve on it and run a harness to it through the standalone?
> ...


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

DieGTi said:


> If you let it hang it would spill quite a bit of gas each time you filled up.


no it wont


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

DieGTi said:


> If left unrestricted then gas flows into the engine while refueling through the evap line.


again no it wont. If that was how it worked it would fill the charcoal canister and all kinds of other stuff with gas which it is def. not doing.

the problem isnt that it floods. its because if the evap/n80 isnt function properly it is a leak and the system as to re-pressurize. My car does the same exact thing about 90% of the time i fill up. It has an extended crank and gotta give it gas to get it going. If its was flooding it wouldnt start until you pull the plugs


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

So by leaving it completely open, I will have no issues? Or do I need the valve still on it plugged in? And


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

Off topic guys.... can you take that to PM's or something.


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

CDJetta said:


> Off topic guys.... can you take that to PM's or something.


Yup pm me plz if u have answers or if you've done the swap and are willing to help me I no longer need to pass emissions


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

I was saying take your emissions/evap conversation to the PM's. Not talking about swap problems/issues.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

...Ok so now I understand your comment in the rosstech thread. 
Forgive me for my "aggressive" tone with you in the past but did you not ask me for information pertaining to this swap? You have used half of the information I posted online and half of the images in this thread I took with my own camera yet there is not one single reference to us other than we are "the expensive" company selling the swap parts.
I want to publically state (as you have) that my tone towards you was not aggresive by any means and I am here to help with anything you are trying to do. 
Let me know how I can help,
Issam


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

If you are stating you took the pictures for 034 and that they are yours then whups... guess that's just more PR for 034 so I don't see how that's bad considering they are marked with their brand on it. The rest of the pics that aren't 034's or 034's car are of other people's cars and non-a4 swap pics. I'm sure when you said half of them are yours you were over exaggerating a little.

As for information on the swap. Any information I asked you was on the clutch for the vehicle in which you denied my requested information which was.... what clutch vehicle application worked with the 034 flywheel as I wanted to see pricing on new discs for the clutch setup I already had but since I bought it used from a failed A4 VR6 conversion I didn't know all the information. I have never asked you for any information other than that because I have seen how you deal with things before so I didn't even bother. I also didn't want to feel like I owed you anything because I asked information from you. I have contacted you a few times before for flange pricing though.

Your tone has never been aggressive with me. It's your business practices that I do not respect. I consider them very aggressive. Some of the information here was provided by yourself but not most of it. Most of it came from the other people that have done the swap and the information I'm missing I know you have but because of your business practices will not provide to the public. Your information thread was some what that but when it came down to the nitty gritty stuff it just couldn't be said so I put this up here because I like to share information with all so that they can decide where they want to get their parts but I'm not here to try and change you or anything. Just letting you know how I feel. I'm sorry if I have offended you in any way. Obviously I caught your eye a little and I'm sorry to have taken time out of your day to deal with me as I will never be a customer of yours because of your previous ways of business. If that has changed and I see it then maybe things will change but until then I am sorry.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Clutch is Audi 90 for the 01A... any of the various stage disc and pressure plates will work.

Please do not muddy this thread with reviews of Issam's business practices. They're well known and you can't change the stripes on a zebra. Ignore him so he'll go away and this tread can fulfill the purpose of sharing knowledge. If you engage him in a turd slinging competition then we'll lose the thread.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

DieGTi. Thanks for the help with keeping this back on track. Sorry I diverted there. I usually try and ignore the posts but sometimes get ya like a fish after some bait. After I was denied the information though I went through other resources and got the information myself like everything most everything else still.

I'm sorry to the other people in here that I haven't posted part numbers for everything. I've been lazy with this project because of my stupid TDI that I am putting the finishing touches on my GT2260V turbo swap then it'll be back to this project. 

Still missing a lot of information on the 24v swap. I'll try and get the information on exactly what mounts work. Part numbers would be the best. Also like to find out if the r36 motor uses the same mounts or not and if the hood clears since it's a taller block.



DieGTi said:


> Clutch is Audi 90 for the 01A... any of the various stage disc and pressure plates will work.
> 
> Please do not muddy this thread with reviews of Issam's business practices. They're well known and you can't change the stripes on a zebra. Ignore him so he'll go away and this tread can fulfill the purpose of sharing knowledge. If you engage him in a turd slinging competition then we'll lose the thread.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

CDJetta said:


> I know you have but because of your business practices will not provide to the public. Your information thread was some what that but when it came down to the nitty gritty stuff it just couldn't be said so I put this up here because I like to share information with all so that they can decide where they want to get their parts but I'm not here to try and change you or anything. Just letting you know how I feel. I'm sorry if I have offended you in any way. Obviously I caught your eye a little and I'm sorry to have taken time out of your day to deal with me as I will never be a customer of yours because of your previous ways of business. If that has changed and I see it then maybe things will change but until then I am sorry.


You could have let me know how you feel via a Private Message or similar. Posting on a public forum AFTER you were given help is very offensive. Without getting into specifics the 034 car is my car that 034 now uses and whatever questions anyone asked about the swap or swap parts were supplied. I have a 24 page thread on AZ and yes thank you for taking the time to compile this thread the way you have but my only issue (which is the reason for messaging you) was you keep referring to "ways of business" but you are not being specific. 
We have enough Engineering projects on our plate to take us into 2013....If you choose to do business with us we welcome it but if you choose not to , that is fine as well but like every other company out there we want to know WHY and you have not given me a WHY.


CDJetta said:


> After I was denied the information though I went through other resources and got the information myself like everything most everything else still..


Sorry if I offend you when I say this but this seems like a classic example of "Lets crap on the advertiser who is trying to make $$$ selling such a readily available swap" .
Where did we deny you of anything? 

The Clutch used with the 034 flywheel is from an Audi Inline-5 (so 80/90/200/5000 etc) .The Oil Pan is the phaeton unit and the touareg image you have above with the 10-AN bung welded to it is with my hand .That was posted in our AZ & MG thread years ago. Even says it on 034's website. The only thing I am guilty of with respect to the swap is deferring people to not do it as it is not cheap by any means which is why I stopped pushing it. Some people got in way over there head and either parted out the project or moved onto another platform.


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

I found a local CNC shop that said they can make up the spacer. I am going to get one made up so that we have a file that people can use if they want to get their own made up locally too. I know if you make something and sell it here you need to be an advertiser. I think once the spacer is made up the options for flywheels opens up a little more which would be nice. More options and more information is always good.

Just got some new information on the Starter 034 uses. I will be posting up more detailed information on it later on the main page but the starter 034 uses is a Toyota 4 cylinder starter with a custom snout on the end. I'll be getting the part number for the starter in case anybody needs it. These starters can be bought for less than 100 bucks each so if your starter dies on you then you can just pick up a new one locally at the Advanced Auto Parts so that you don't have to wait for the mail.  i'll be getting part numbers on that and all. Mind all you really cheap people, you still need the custom snout and probably the toothed gear which we have no way of sourcing those items except from 034 in which you have to buy the whole starter I presume. I haven't contacted them about just getting the custom snout or gear.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

CDJetta said:


> I found a local CNC shop that said they can make up the spacer. I am going to get one made up so that we have a file that people can use if they want to get their own made up locally too.


Id be down for that CAD file


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

Me too plz!


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## BoostedSlidewayz (Apr 25, 2008)

DITTO!!!! :thumbup: also looking for any parts for the swap or info on the dimensions for the 12v cradle


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

Any info on radiator and fans? Can I run stock radiator and stock electric fan? Or will it not fit? I know its pretty tight to the radiator. Tia


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

ThatA4T said:


> Any info on radiator and fans? Can I run stock radiator and stock electric fan? Or will it not fit? I know its pretty tight to the radiator. Tia


no way in hell.


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## ThatA4T (Jul 4, 2011)

haenszel said:


> no way in hell.


Specs on your radiator? And what kinda fan setup are you running?


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## Aivo (Apr 5, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> ThatA4T said:
> 
> 
> > No 12v parts will work for mounting the motor. I havent done the 24v but 99% sure you can use toureq brackets as the toureg came with a longitudinal 24v
> ...


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## kandst (Mar 10, 2008)

Want to see more of this build


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## 2doorV6 (Jan 29, 2003)

*great write up*

very thourough for people who are thinking of getting into this big job :thumbup:


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## g60vwr (Apr 9, 2000)

What happened to this build?


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

g60vwr said:


> What happened to this build?


It wasn't a build, it was an information thread.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Issam Abed said:


> Id be down for that CAD file


10 months later...no CAD file.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Congratulations on holding a death grip on a swap that now hardly anyone cares to do. Cool. :thumbup:


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

DieGTi said:


> Congratulations on holding a death grip on a swap that now hardly anyone cares to do. Cool. :thumbup:


:laugh::laugh::laugh:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

DieGTi said:


> Congratulations on holding a death grip on a swap that now hardly anyone cares to do. Cool. :thumbup:


Anytime! :thumbup:
Thank you for subscribing.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Issam Abed said:


> Anytime! :thumbup:
> Thank you for subscribing.


You know they make adapters to mate the vr6 engine into old Porsche 911 now?

Ptfo.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

DieGTi said:


> You know they make adapters to mate the vr6 engine into old Porsche 911 now?


Do you have a link or happen to know which gearbox code?
Got a few Porsche toys I could fool around with.


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## vr6xin!!! (Feb 3, 2009)

I can't wait to see it once you get it up and running. This is dope...


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Issam Abed said:


> Do you have a link or happen to know which gearbox code?
> Got a few Porsche toys I could fool around with.


All air cooled; 915 and 950 for starters.

http://www.kennedyenginc.com


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

DieGTi said:


> You know they make adapters to mate the vr6 engine into old Porsche 911 now?
> 
> Ptfo.


VR swaps into the 911 chassis has been going on for at least a decade.

To the purists its sacrilege, but no flat six is as roughed as an old AAA :laugh:


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## thepirate (Jun 6, 2008)

I had a dream last night I did this....and this is the first time seeing this thread. Hmmmm


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## eurotekms (Feb 10, 2002)

thepirate said:


> I had a dream last night I did this....and this is the first time seeing this thread. Hmmmm


 

Anyone with new input on engine management (for emissions) would be appreciated.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

eurotekms said:


> Anyone with new input on engine management (for emissions) would be appreciated.


 Splice vr6 to b5. 
Heavy reading...fun.


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## Big~Kenny (Jan 28, 2011)

I am currently doign this swap. I will be making a custom adapter plate that will allow me to use the stock VR flywheel, starter and clutch set-up. This just wont save me $1500 from 034's customs VR-01A/E stuff, but it will also set the engine further back, which will hopefully be enough from me having to trim the rad support/hood. As for engine managment, my car is already on standalone, and the stock sensors will work, they will just hve to be re-pinned. 

I will start a build thread when i get closer to putting the engine in and more parts are ordered!


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

Big~Kenny said:


> I am currently doign this swap. I will be making a custom adapter plate that will allow me to use the stock VR flywheel, starter and clutch set-up.


 Curious to see how you get round the starter and ring gear being on the transmission side... opcorn:


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

How do you plan on running an adapter plate while setting the engine further back?


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## c0r3y.af (Oct 8, 2009)

I've always dreamed about doing this but this is way, way, over my technical level. Love me some VR.


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## Big~Kenny (Jan 28, 2011)

MikkiJayne said:


> Curious to see how you get round the starter and ring gear being on the transmission side... opcorn:



Sorry for the mis info. It will be using a small block chevy starter more then likley, and will weld mounting points on the adapter plate to hold the starter. 



haenszel said:


> How do you plan on running an adapter plate while setting the engine further back?


Its hard to explain, but i will use 1/4" steel plate, cut the size of the flywheel out, drill and countersink the "stock vr trans-motor" locations, then mock the 01E to the VR, mark the mounting holes for the trans on the adapter plate, drill and tap those holes, bolt the trans up, using the stock VR flywheel and clutch set-up, with the 01E hydrulics. My guesstimations is it should move the motor back whatever thickness the 034 adapter is which should save the rad support and hood from having to be trimmed. It should work in theory. If not, then i guess ill be spending $1500+ on the 034 stuff. Me and my buddy just did an adaptation similar to what i just explained on his SFI rated bellhousing for a T56 6-speed from a LT1, and we used the same process to adapt the LT1 T56 to his Turbo LX9(3.5l V6 from a G6) and it worked perfectly.

I have read your thread countless of times Haenszel, and iv got tons of ideas from it as well.


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

Big~Kenny said:


> Its hard to explain, but i will use 1/4" steel plate, cut the size of the flywheel out, drill and countersink the "stock vr trans-motor" locations, then mock the 01E to the VR, mark the mounting holes for the trans on the adapter plate, drill and tap those holes, bolt the trans up, using the stock VR flywheel and clutch set-up, with the 01E hydrulics. My guesstimations is it should move the motor back whatever thickness the 034 adapter is which should save the rad support and hood from having to be trimmed. It should work in theory. If not, then i guess ill be spending $1500+ on the 034 stuff. Me and my buddy just did an adaptation similar to what i just explained on his SFI rated bellhousing for a T56 6-speed from a LT1, and we used the same process to adapt the LT1 T56 to his Turbo LX9(3.5l V6 from a G6) and it worked perfectly.


I'd like to see this when you're done. I'd gladly buy a new flywheel to move the engine back 3/4". Just note that you'll most likely NOT be able to run a front sway bar. You'll also have to shave the core support still, but it certainly won't be as drastic. Might be able to fit 2 fans also. 1 big powerful one and one with a smaller motor on the drivers side.


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

does the vr5 starter work with 034 FW?


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## turbo_fb (May 18, 2006)

ThatA4T said:


> Any info on radiator and fans? Can I run stock radiator and stock electric fan? Or will it not fit? I know its pretty tight to the radiator. Tia


Here's a pic of my old setup. SPAL fans and no problems with cooling.


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## brandonb85 (Jan 17, 2008)

Has anyone completed a 12V VR6 swap with a/c? After months of trying to make a/c work i think i am finally throwing in the towel. If anyone knows of a username or any contact information please let me know.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

What challenge are you running into? I've had custom AC lines made for some of the swaps I've done in the past with tricky geometry and sensor requirements. Costs a couple hundred bucks but solves all kinds of problems. A good shop should be able to hook you up in an afternoon...


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## brandonb85 (Jan 17, 2008)

Had the custom lines made. Problems with having room for cooling fans. Only thing i could do to comp for it would be to space the whole front clip out and try to run a different bumper and intercooler. And at this point im already more over budget than i wanted to be.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

After having lived in the desert for a few years with high coolant temps, you take notice of suggestions such as auxiliary radiators. That would be my approach here although I don't have a B5 VR6. there's likely room for a transmission cooler size solution somewhere on the car with a high output fan. Use that to help control temps if you have a sub optimal primary fan system.


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## TheeFT (Mar 10, 2010)

Sorry to raise this from the dead. But does anyone know if i can use an a4 clutch with the 7a flywheel and pressure plate? I have a good deal on clutch that im waiting to possibly buy. Want to make sure it works first


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## Fredriksson84 (Dec 21, 2006)

What oilpump are you guys using ? i have phaeton oilpan but the org vr6 oilpump is about 2cm from the bottom of the pan :S


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## TheeFT (Mar 10, 2010)

Fredriksson84 said:


> What oilpump are you guys using ? i have phaeton oilpan but the org vr6 oilpump is about 2cm from the bottom of the pan :S


I think people are using r32 pumps. Im going dry sump so idk haha


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## Fredriksson84 (Dec 21, 2006)

TheeFT said:


> I think people are using r32 pumps. Im going dry sump so idk haha


whats the diffrens between the r32 pump and the 12v pump ?


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## phil123 (Aug 13, 2009)

Fredriksson84 said:


> whats the diffrens between the r32 pump and the 12v pump ?


height top to bottom, the R32 pump is more shallow (why this matters in this application, no idea...)


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## Fredriksson84 (Dec 21, 2006)

phil123 said:


> height top to bottom, the R32 pump is more shallow (why this matters in this application, no idea...)



because the phaeton oilpan is much deeper then the 12v steel oilpan so i need to have a pump that come closer to the bottom


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## phil123 (Aug 13, 2009)

Fredriksson84 said:


> because the phaeton oilpan is much deeper then the 12v steel oilpan so i need to have a pump that come closer to the bottom


understood, but the R32 pump actually does the opposite.

The people that want to go low run a sectioned or R32 pan and pump because the R32 pumps pickup is "higher" (closer to the hood if you want to look at it like that), than a regular 12v VR6 pump.


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## Fredriksson84 (Dec 21, 2006)

phil123 said:


> understood, but the R32 pump actually does the opposite.
> 
> The people that want to go low run a sectioned or R32 pan and pump because the R32 pumps pickup is "higher" (closer to the hood if you want to look at it like that), than a regular 12v VR6 pump.


Ok so the only option is to buy the phaeton pump ? that pump is expensive like hell here in sweden it cost around 490us dollar :S


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## phil123 (Aug 13, 2009)

Fredriksson84 said:


> Ok so the only option is to buy the phaeton pump ? that pump is expensive like hell here in sweden it cost around 490us dollar :S


If you need a deeper pickup, then I would think so.


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

I've been running a factory 12v oil pump for 5 years now. Never an issue.


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## Fredriksson84 (Dec 21, 2006)

haenszel said:


> I've been running a factory 12v oil pump for 5 years now. Never an issue.


whit Phaeton oilpan ?


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## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

Fredriksson84 said:


> whit Phaeton oilpan ?


yes.


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## mk3aba20vt (Dec 28, 2006)

so can you still use the vr5 stater with the 034 flywheel? since it should be the same exact thing as the 7a flywheel but deeper to account for the adapter plate vs 7a with the homemade spacer?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

^ The mods have their work cut out for them...


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

Figured I'd bring new life into this... Driver & Passenger OEM Engine brackets now make it possible to bolt in the VR6 motor using B5/A4/S4 Style engine mounts. No custom mounts or cradles needed. :laugh:

I'm picking up where I left off in 2009. 

Here are some recent pictures that may interest some of you.

I am in the process of breaking down the motor and doing a build. I'll post progress pictures as it becomes neccesary. 






























Enjoy.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

NYEuroTuner said:


> Figured I'd bring new life into this... Driver & Passenger OEM Engine brackets now make it possible to bolt in the VR6 motor using B5/A4/S4 Style engine mounts. No custom mounts or cradles needed. :laugh:
> 
> I'm picking up where I left off in 2009.
> 
> ...


i hope i'm seeing a touareg driver's side engine mount and a VR5/phaeton passenger side mount?

can you imbellish on which mounts you['ve used? looks like the 034 billet mount on the driver's side does a sweet correction for the angle of the flat mounting face.

i am putting a 2.8 BDF into my b6 1.8t avant soon, and have a phaeton 3.2 passenger side mount and a touareg 3.2 driver's side mount...


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## Talkwrench (Mar 2, 2015)

Awesome! I've signed up to just ask if you can post the part numbers of those OEM mounts you've used, I'm piecing together all the parts for my swap and would love to use the OEM mounts rather than fabricate custom ones. It looks so right


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

Talkwrench said:


> Awesome! I've signed up to just ask if you can post the part numbers of those OEM mounts you've used, I'm piecing together all the parts for my swap and would love to use the OEM mounts rather than fabricate custom ones. It looks so right


I have in my possession a phaeton 3.2 VR passenger side mount which looks absolutely identical to what he's got in these photos. It should be correct. The driver's side looks just like the touareg/cayenne driver's side mounts, however it could also be a phaeton or passat vr5 mount too. I am not sure if the phaeton/VR5 mount is the same as the touareg version (which i also have).

I do know that as measured in my A4 b6 1.8t avant 6-speed manual,* the width of mounting is 22-3/4" as measured from the base of each stud in each engine mount*. This means that if your selection of mounts allows for 22-3/4" from bolt hole to bolt hole, it should plunk down onto the oem mounts correctly (negating the possibility of longitudinal offset due to mount variation). The mounts I have are OEM 1.8t b6, mounted on the oem aluminum lower brackets. I measured this when i had my stock 1.8t pulled last month.

If we don't get an answer back from the guy with the photos, i will soon have my mounts installed on my spare 24v block, and can chime in if the touareg driver's side has the correct width required. When roughly measured while holding them on the block, it appears i am certainly close if not on the mark.

Note that his driver's side mount (034 billet) is secured at an angle, which probably is what allows that mount to work. Those billet mounts aren't overly pricey to be honest, so that's a great solution for any 24v swap!


If ANYONE can comment on the driver's side mount, that would be stellar. Sharing information will NOT make your car slower, or break, lol, but it may help us to keep this thread rolling in the details.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Should be able to look at the dealer parts diagram and compare part #'s. Right?


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Phaeton Parts:

pass - 3D0199308AN
driv - 022115403H - this is also a filter housing it looks like...


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

Hey guys, looks like my pictures have generated some buzz. Good that was my intention. First off let me say both mount brackets We're graciously supplied to me by Issam @INA Engineering for fitment and testing and I have been authorized to share info. As our whole intention is to make this swap more feasible and realistically attainable by even the average enthusiast. We are also working with Bische Performance in getting a VR6 running OEM management (VR6 ECU) flawlessly in a B5 just like they have with their B6 A4 3.2 VR6 powered car. Search "Bische Performance" on either youtube or facebook to get a look at his VR B6 A4. Or check out his build thread on AZ. 
* http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/417035-Bische-s-Wagon-The-thread/page37 *

So far, Bische performance is the only, I repeat the only company to successfully get a VR6 running flawlessly and maintaining OEM functions such as OB2 ports, cruise control, and functioning clusters without the Xmas tree lights most VR6 swapped B5s currently have. 


I'm using the Phaeton 3.2 Driver & Passenger engine brackets

Phaeton driver side bracket is similar but not identical to the VR5 engine bracket as Angle differs substantionslly. So if you have a passenger a phaeton bracket, angle with best work a Phaeton 3.2 drivers bracket. 

With respect, as much info will be shared as possible from my swap, and so much already has. To know now the VR6 can be bolted into our chassis with OEM brackets with minimal mount Hole Massaging is a Great Leap Forward as the only options before hand was an expensive cradle or having some one make you one off custom brackets for a substantional large amount of money. 


Again, please understand, just my posting here is only to show that the VR6 swap is still and
Now more than ever a do able swap without breaking the bank or necessitating handfuls of custom parts.


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

With that said, Information sharing is critical, however please keep in mind time, sourcing brackets and getting them here costs money. And the only way I was able to try out different engine brackets and figure out what works and what doesn't is by someone taking the time to get the brackets in the states and it takes money to shop/import parts. 



Issam @ INAEngineering has been critical during this entire process for this bracket discovery and my swap progression. and there are a few readily available bracket options coming our way from INA in the near future. 

And I'm glad, to see this is sparking new life into this swap. That's the whole idea. And I'm excited to be picking this swap up again after so many years and seeing it to completion. 

Currently I just dissasemlbed the motor and to my dismay did not approve of the current condition of the motor/internals. So I went ahead and ordered through Issam

DM Forged Rods
MAHLE Pistons
Supertech Valves
12v forged Crank
All ARP hardware
Calico coated Rod & Main bearings. 

And the list Goes on. I'll post updates as it becomes necessary. As parts trickle in and I get the block & head from the machine shop I will prep the motor and I'm patiently waiting for Bische Performance to finish my harness. 👍🍺


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

George,

This is an inherently DIY crowd these days. There's not a lot of money to be made trying to be a middle man on parts that don't require management. 

Phaeton Parts:

pass - 3D0199308AN
driv - 022115403H

If you want to make money, cut them from billet or cast your own for less than the dealer will charge and earn it... but there's just not going to be a big line of people for a part they can get relatively easily with a part #.

My $.02.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

By the way, I feel like a slight dick for posting the part numbers now. I had no way to know Issam was going to try to package these... if he was, it would have been wise not to mention the model they came from and then removed the part# on the kit he sells. Cat is out of the bag now...


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## ray4624 (Jul 23, 2010)

i mean they are oem mounts. thanks for doing the research and all but paying a markup would be stupid.


I am more interested in the ECU components mentioned etc. Mainly if they work with dbc/narrowband cars
I guess i know what parts i am going to start gathering once my stroker is together lol


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

I have nothing to gain financially, and no one is worried about part numbers being posted. Info is out there and easily attainable. No one here is trying to hide anything. I simply said INA is packaging something simply to give people the heads up that an easy solution is in the works rather than painfully attempting to source old OEM parts across the sea. 

I am not looking for a return or profit here, just trying to revamp or breathe new life into this swap for our platform.


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## GrapeBandit (Dec 13, 2010)

after skimming through thjs thread, this is not a cost effective build by any means, and the same power or more can be had for le$$ by going BT 1.8t or 2.7t


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

My swap is still going very slowly. Been pouring more money into it lately. I'll update the first page as soon as I have time to re-arrange it and make it more readable. It's a little catastrophic for my liking. Thanks for posting the part numbers up and thanks to anybody else who has been providing information.

I finally got my swap turned over the other day. OBD-2 port is reading codes fine running on MK3 management. I'll be posting a pin out/wiring of what I connected up where once I get it all cleaned up. Don't know about the cruise control but that'll be worked on later.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Good to know. 

Here's a list of factory bits:

Adapter Plate: 022103551А, 071103551A
Flywheel (VR5 B5 Passat) - 071105266
Starter (VR5 B5 Passat) 012911023 (this cross references as the same starter as Q7 and Touareg 3.2L interestingly)
Engine Mount Bracket (3.2L Phaeton) passenger side - 3D0199308AN
Engine Mount Bracket (3.2L Phaeton) driver side - 022115403H
Oil Pan - 022103601Q (Phaeton V6)

Anything missing?


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

GrapeBandit said:


> after skimming through thjs thread, this is not a cost effective build by any means, and the same power or more can be had for le$$ by going BT 1.8t or 2.7t


It's more than power numbers that makes this swap desirable. After over a decade long relationship with the 2.7 I can tell you she is not the most friendly or accessible engine around... Lot of simple tasks require you to drop the motor. Going VR in the S4 is a no brainer, so much more room for activities, reliability most importantly. The 2.7 with respect is a ticking time bomb with anything over 700whp... That is not the case with the VR6.


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## GrapeBandit (Dec 13, 2010)

NYEuroTuner said:


> It's more than power numbers that makes this swap desirable. After over a decade long relationship with the 2.7 I can tell you she is not the most friendly or accessible engine around... Lot of simple tasks require you to drop the motor. Going VR in the S4 is a no brainer, so much more room for activities, reliability most importantly. The 2.7 with respect is a ticking time bomb with anything over 700whp... That is not the case with the VR6.


thats why 1.8t :laugh:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Not too worried about part #'s being posted. People are going to always try to find the part regardless once they know it exists and I am ok with that. It is a free marketplace...

George was a little premature with his post as I wanted to make sure this time around we had a complete package that works . One of the biggest killers for the swap was not being able to get a package/box with everything in it. Whatever the case whoever sent over PM's asking for pricing etc. please understand , this is still premature.
The Passenger side mount (LHD) will be made in house with the correct angle blending both the VR5 and VR6 units. As for the Touareg/Q7/Cayenne units , if you can make that option work then great as that is another option to help grow the swap.



DieGTi said:


> Starter (VR5 B5 Passat) 012911023 (this cross references as the same starter as Q7 and Touareg 3.2L interestingly)


Compared a 3.6 VR6 Starter to the VR5 unit and the height was different. Will get a 3.2L in for fitment.


DieGTi said:


> Anything missing?


Snub mount bracket.


DieGTi said:


> Engine Mount Bracket (3.2L Phaeton) passenger side - 3D0199308AN
> Engine Mount Bracket (3.2L Phaeton) driver side - 022115403H


Careful here. We have not tried fitment with the vertical mounts against a gearbox as yet. VR5 Driver side (LHD) is still a better option.


DieGTi said:


> Oil Pan - 022103601Q (Phaeton V6)


Considering the price tag imported , you can either import one or wait until we are done making the baffled & kicked out units. Our oil pan will follow the transverse set up but will have a kicked out section under the exhaust manifold similar to the Audi 7A/3B/NM/ABY motors and will have a 10-AN provision for turbocharger oil return. Smarter and better option.


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## GrapeBandit (Dec 13, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> *Not too worried about part #'s being posted.*


so post 'em:what:


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## ray4624 (Jul 23, 2010)

for some reason i always liked the idea of "bolt in"
its not that i am lazy but i would rather spend some extra coin and get something i know has been tested. 
I dont have the time to be messing with things that have already been figured out to save a few hundred dollars.

Definitely interested in what you are putting together. 

I have to decide of this or the ls swapped e30 will come first.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Issam Abed said:


> Not too worried about part #'s being posted. People are going to always try to find the part regardless once they know it exists and I am ok with that. It is a free marketplace...
> 
> George was a little premature with his post as I wanted to make sure this time around we had a complete package that works . One of the biggest killers for the swap was not being able to get a package/box with everything in it. Whatever the case whoever sent over PM's asking for pricing etc. please understand , this is still premature.
> The Passenger side mount (LHD) will be made in house with the correct angle blending both the VR5 and VR6 units. As for the Touareg/Q7/Cayenne units , if you can make that option work then great as that is another option to help grow the swap.
> ...


Which height? The overall unit or the bendix action?



Issam Abed said:


> Snub mount bracket.


I'll see what I can find on that today. The VR5 snub utilizes the mk3 vw mount provisions on the back of bank 1, furthest from the intermediate shaft. This would present a challenge if using the Phaeton mount that occupies the same holes.



Issam Abed said:


> Careful here. We have not tried fitment with the vertical mounts against a gearbox as yet. VR5 Driver side (LHD) is still a better option.


If you haven't tried it, how can you say one is better than the other?



Issam Abed said:


> Considering the price tag imported , you can either import one or wait until we are done making the baffled & kicked out units. Our oil pan will follow the transverse set up but will have a kicked out section under the exhaust manifold similar to the Audi 7A/3B/NM/ABY motors and will have a 10-AN provision for turbocharger oil return. Smarter and better option.


...DIY crowd, I think a third option for many who own a welder is to simply chop and make their own pan with kick-out in a couple hours. A 12v steel pan could be manipulated real fast. I do like the kick out and drain provision idea. 

Realistically, the way this swap is going to be figured out using primarily off the shelf parts is by someone ponying up the dough to get the various parts in hand with a test mule. Figure out what parts fit, find out which ones need to be manufactured. I'd plan for around $5g outlay to get the parts in hand new, far less if you can source from a breaker in Europe (you can get the phaeton left and right mounts under $200ea from VAG). If you're taking the lead on this effort then great but there is high risk unless you control the part # info as I suggested previously. 

An alternative to this is producing your own that are a perfect fit. If you're going to prototype, put in the solidworks time and cast your own then this would be the most profitable as then you're not held hostage to price by VAG. I'd strongly recommend this even for the oil pan. Building a jig and pumping out tubular steel that uses stock mount holes would probably save you some 3d rendering time... but will be far heavier than an alloy casting. 

Personally, I was interested 5yrs ago but it's too much time to waste... for less headache and only a bit more cash I was able to jump over to an old 911 Porsche. Try to keep this in mind when putting your package together... if you price too high then nobody will buy it as those who really want this swap will just figure in fabrication locally. Look at other swaps that are wildly popular such as the mk2 VW VR6... these caught fire with the enthusiasts because it was all parts that could be had second hand cheaply rather than a controlled supply chain with a price hike on certain critical items. Price high with a big margin - sell a couple. Price low with small margin and sell them like hotcakes... if you can guess which will sell more then you can probably make a decent profit. As a business man, I would recommend the lower margin, higher volume to discourage competition (OBX) from joining. 

Good luck Issam - not a market space I would be rushing into for hopes of profit.


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## Talkwrench (Mar 2, 2015)

Wow! Just checked back in now. There is some real gold being posted here. Big thanks for sharing this information :thumbup:


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## veedubda (Sep 4, 2006)

*B5 swap*

How many bolts do you have holding on the transmission and plate?


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## green_slc (Feb 2, 2001)

DieGTi said:


> Phaeton Parts:
> 
> pass - 3D0199308AN
> driv - 022115403H - this is also a filter housing it looks like...


On eBay search on 022115403H came up as an Audi q7 oil filter housing. The oil filter is also the engine mount bracket? Seems wrong. What's the scoop on this?


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

The ebay item from the Q7 ends in J. Different number.


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

Figured I'd post up A Status report.. While new internals are trickling in, figured I'd stay productive and finish up my redesign/relocated oil vapor chamber. I've been posting mostly on the FB S4 group and IG.

Finishing up my redesigned/relocated oil Vapor chamber. Still have to weld the front blocking plate.


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

All this new info makes me happy. Now I can start collecting parts.

Now I may have missed this, so my apologies if I did. But will these motor mounts work with all the different VR6 motors? I have 12V motors available by the boat load. But I seen a few 3.6s in my local pick and pull I could get for cheap too.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

I haven't tried the numbers I've shared - just reverse searched the part # from description these guys have provided. There is still some risk until someone independently fits and confirms.

Edit- I've played with both 12v and 24v vr6 engine swaps in other chassis. The 24v block is different on the oil filter side of the engine specifically where it mates with the transmission. Unsure of how this would impact the mounts in this case.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

well i can offer a lot of info / measurement on the VR5 parts... unfortunately the passenger side (LHD car) does NOT bolt to a 12v or 24v engine because the blocks do not have the mounting bosses to accept the perfectly sculpted VR5 mounts (super-ultra-sadface). I just received them in the mail from ebay.de today at lunch and ran home in my shirt and tie and fancy shoes and manhandled 4 engines out of the way to spin around my BDF and disasterously discover that the bosses are missing :banghead::sly::thumbdown:

the good news is that i also have a phaeton passenger side mount that i can "work with" hehe. The phaeton passenger mount (lets call it "exhaust mount" to avoid confusion) - this bolts to all 24v blocks. I cannot comment on 12v, but i will test it on my buddies spare block army (i am plum out of 12v's lately... lol).

So on the intake side mount... i now have a VR5 mount and a touareg mount. As issam and NYEurotuner posted, they (phaeton/treg/Qx) are longer (width of car) and have a flat mounting angle + i suspect the elevation is different at the chassis rubber mounting point.


So here's what i'm going to do (being a nerdy engineer)... I am going to blue-print the mounting locations and create a 3D x,y,z model for where the proper vr5 mounts would position their bolt holes, as well as the angles of those mounting surfaces.


I think my plan is morphing in 1 of 2x directions at the moment... Running the VR5 intake side mount is common for either as its perfect. 

For the exhaust side mount;

version 1: just fabricate a perfectly measured steel version of the VR5 outer section located on the phaeton mounting points.
version 2: actually cut the two mounts up, and tig weld the two together with adjoining aluminum plate.


observations of the two exhaust side mount differences (eyeball measuring only at this point...);
1. phaeton parts appear to have the total mounting width more similar to the touareg/Qx/Cayenne platform, which surprised me due to the beltline height of the car.
2. VR5 intake side mount and oil cooler has the large R32 style oil cooler (bonus balls), but is at least 1" narrower at mounting point.
3. VR5 mounts have the correct angled mounting surface angle which the A4/A6/passat platforms use, and seem to be higher up (as measured along the height of the block). This would mean VR5 mounts position the engine lower than the phaeton/treg/Qx mounts would (ie - hood clearance benefits)
4. 12v / 24v VRx blocks have no provision for VR5 exhaust side mounts. if i am incorrect here, please someone provide info - i would love to buy another block to get this to fit!
5. VR5 intake mount seems to mount on the 24v VR6 blocks properly, all oil ports line up correctly; however, one of the ports is not circular shaped, and requires a very different o-ring - i will post up some pics and confirm this statement using some tracing gel.
6. NYEurotuner has showed that the 034 billet mounts will accommodate this angular misalignment compared to stock, this is cool as hell - i think if there is an issue with mount height, these mounts could probably be shaved down to make up the slack! 
7. If someone has some serious balls, they would just import a complete 2.3L 20v VR5 engine swap, install an 034 flywheel/clutch and boost the snot out of it, haha. There would be no clearance issues AT ALL...

PS - VR5 intake side mount & oil cooler was $55 + $28 shipping via DHL from Grrrmany to Canada this month). Just open up an english-german online translator and get creative with the searching. I scored the exhaust side mount at the same time for about the same price, but i now know its useless to me, aside from measuring correct mount location.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

here are the mounting points on the back of a 24v VR6 block (used by the phaeton/treg/Qx mounts)











here are the VR5 mounting locations (not present on any of the 24v blocks I have);











the bosses are all approximately at the same "height" measured outward by my eye from the crank centerline to the side of the car (VR5 and 24v). Correct me if i am wrong, but the 12v may have the same arrangements of mounting bosses as the 24v in this case?


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Platinum- thanks for sharing your info. Very useful for people giving this a shot. Seems a lot of us have those shirt and tie day jobs... Helping each other find the answers is best way to make this swap more feasible.


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

Some Carbon Fun today


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

platinumdub-18t said:


> 6. NYEurotuner has showed that the 034 billet mounts will accommodate this angular misalignment compared to stock, this is cool as hell - i think if there is an issue with mount height, these mounts could probably be shaved down to make up the slack!
> 
> .


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

just making an insert or are you making a full replacememt?!?!


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

platinumdub-18t said:


> just making an insert or are you making a full replacememt?!?!




Both. I have a few things in the works.. 






platinumdub-18t said:


> here are the mounting points on the back of a 24v VR6 block (used by the phaeton/treg/Qx mounts)

































To give actual Images with the Phaeton Brackets. Took these pictures before I started tearing down the motor.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

@NYEuroTuner !!! --- my big question is this... how high does the engine sit with the phaeton mounts?!?!??! does the hood close? if not, could you put a straight edge across the top of the valve cover, and measure down to the frame rail??? (not sure if you still have an engine in the car or not).


part of me is considering fabricating a number of steel replicas of the VR5 mount, but if the phaeton stuff works height wise, i might sell off my vr5 mount set and just use my phaeton/touareg set like you've done (sittin on 034 billet mounts).


facts... numbers... get at me.


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

platinumdub-18t said:


> @NYEuroTuner !!! --- my big question is this... how high does the engine sit with the phaeton mounts?!?!??! does the hood close? if not, could you put a straight edge across the top of the valve cover, and measure down to the frame rail??? (not sure if you still have an engine in the car or not)..


I don't have the motor in the car as its torn down for the build.. However the only thing that stops the hood from closing is the type of valve cover. To kind of answer your question, I marked where on the valve cover vapor chamber I needed to cut in order to have the clearance... That is why I modified/upgraded my MK4 Valve cover.. However I can provide the measurements later down the road when everything starts coming together.



platinumdub-18t said:


> part of me is considering fabricating a number of steel replicas of the VR5 mount, but if the phaeton stuff works height wise, i might sell off my vr5 mount set and just use my phaeton/touareg set like you've done (sittin on 034 billet mounts).
> 
> facts... numbers... get at me.


The VR5 is the only driver OEM bracket that has the correct angle to work with our angled subframe mounting points..So the VR5 would be ideal... 

The 034 type engine mount allows for the "straight" angle the phaeton brackets use.. I am using Phaeton to show even though the angle is off a bit off, it is still a viable option as the Phaeton brackets are the only pair so far that technically work together to bolt in the VR6 with a engine mount that compensates for the difference in angles.

Now I haven't tested the Phaeton Brackets with the TDI 01E trans I am going to be using, I'll cross that bridge when I get there. 

But I'll post my findings once the block/heads are done and when the rest of the new parts arrive and ready for install.. But that all depends on how long my Harness maker takes to finish my custom harness..

So at the moment I am doing little things like fabbing/altering valve covers, carbon wrap, cleaning, painting, prep etc etc...


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## Kosi123 (Jul 1, 2012)

Hi guys,

Refer to my new thead for some more engine mount info 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7147967-VR6-Longitudinal-SWAP-My-Best-practices


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

Kosi123 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Refer to my new thead for some more engine mount info
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7147967-VR6-Longitudinal-SWAP-My-Best-practices


Most of use are looking for an alternative to custom mounts.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

Turbo3 said:


> Most of use are looking for an alternative to custom mounts.


I know some people who will mount anything.


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

Turbo3 said:


> Most of use are looking for an alternative to custom mounts.


There are alternatives. OEM brackets and mounts..


Anyways, picked up a "slightly larger snail today"


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

NYEuroTuner said:


> There are alternatives. OEM brackets and mounts..
> 
> 
> Anyways, picked up a "slightly larger snail today"












:laugh: All kidding aside, that turbo is the kind that breaks stuff. 


Curious to anyone getting a spacer made to run an OEM VR6 flywheel. I would assume the flywheel would just need spaced out from the block the same distance of the transmission offset. Any idea what kind of machine shop cost that would run?


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

Starter ring gear would need to be relocated to the other side of the flywheel then. Machining etc.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

platinumdub-18t said:


> Starter ring gear would need to be relocated to the other side of the flywheel then. Machining etc.


I figured there had to be some reason why its not widely used. Of all the parts required for the swap, this is the one that I think purchasing from 034 makes a lot of sense.


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

magics5rip said:


> :laugh: All kidding aside, *that turbo is the kind that breaks stuff. *




hehe :thumbup:




magics5rip said:


> Curious to anyone getting a spacer made to run an OEM VR6 flywheel. I would assume the flywheel would just need spaced out from the block the same distance of the transmission offset. Any idea what kind of machine shop cost that would run?


The only VR6 "OEM" Flywheel you could use is the 3.2 Phaeton Flywheel without modifying...... or the VR5 flywheel that requires a spacer.

Or buy 034's billet wheel.


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

Valve cover still needs some wet sanding and more coats of clear... But made some progress.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

nice job. i like that its just the inlay.

is the phaeton 3.2 flywheel dual mass or single mass. had never occured to me to ebay one of them. shipping would likely be abhorent if it had to come across the pond.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

platinumdub-18t said:


> nice job. i like that its just the inlay.
> 
> is the phaeton 3.2 flywheel dual mass or single mass. had never occured to me to ebay one of them. shipping would likely be abhorent if it had to come across the pond.


I'd go single mass every time just to avoid any potential DM faults. I've looked on ebay for Phaeton FWs, they aren't all that plentiful.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

magics5rip said:


> I'd go single mass every time just to avoid any potential DM faults. I've looked on ebay for Phaeton FWs, they aren't all that plentiful.


from what I could find, all VR5 flywheels were dual mass --- are the phaeton flywheels single mass? I would have expected that such a "pleasure-liner" vehicle would have had the dual mass due to being smoother and gentler on start/stop driving.

can anyone verify this?


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

platinumdub-18t said:


> from what I could find, all VR5 flywheels were dual mass --- are the phaeton flywheels single mass? I would have expected that such a "pleasure-liner" vehicle would have had the dual mass due to being smoother and gentler on start/stop driving.
> 
> can anyone verify this?



You could do what a lot of us do when we want to find info out, perhaps purchase a few parts and do some R&D for yourself :thumbup:


That's the only way we were able to test out different engine brackets to find which ones work best in the B5 chassis... Is by getting our hands dirty and trying different components out.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

NYEuroTuner said:


> You could do what a lot of us do when we want to find info out, perhaps purchase a few parts and do some R&D for yourself :thumbup:
> 
> 
> That's the only way we were able to test out different engine brackets to find which ones work best in the B5 chassis... Is by getting our hands dirty and trying different components out.


I have all of the brackets already -- trust me, i've been putting in the R&D money like mad, but i have been building cars for everyone else in the meantime. just trying to get 1 piece of info - i've contributed a bunch in this thread, and many others like it.

I have blueprinted the dimensions of the VR5 pass/drv side brackets and the phaeton brackets last week. was going to be posting up soon. was going to blueprint the mounting boss layout of the 24v BDF block next to allow fab'ers to do their thing

perhaps you thought i was just here scooping up info and not trying anythign on my own  my mk2 ME7 mk1 tt haldex swap is next on my list to start cutting into... i contribute plenty to the vw scene


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

platinumdub-18t said:


> perhaps you thought i was just here scooping up info and not trying anythign on my own  my mk2 ME7 mk1 tt haldex swap is next on my list to start cutting into... i contribute plenty to the vw scene


I never said anything about you contributing to the scene..... But I have Tried looking for your "VR6 R&D content" in this thread but I couldn't find anything other than you posting promises that you will be doing this or that..


And almost every post you have made had questions in it.. What I was trying to say is that the best way to figure anything out in this swap is by actually trying yourself with physical parts, don't get offended, but its easy to post about info that has already been discussed.

Seems your effort is wasted/focused attempting or claiming to attempt to undercut companies that carry mounts or other VR6 swap parts, instead of actually putting something together and discovering something new and innovative.. 

I call it how I see it.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

wow so much for an info sharing forumn. maybe if you were to read up on my other projects you might realize that i am working quite far outside of the box on some other things right now and may be about to do the same here. should see the mk2 i have built entirely out of mk4 me7 platform bud - has never been done the way i have done it, and i have shared every detail. 

yes i have asked technical questions. but yes i have also posted up everything i knew about the mount option i knew so far too. i am not undercutting anyone - that is an ignorant comment - sounds like "issam 101". this is an info sharing thread and whatever i ask is a shared benefit to all who read it... grow up. best of luck with your build, but keep your comments like that to yourself, i can assure you its not justified. and be assured you just motivated me to stop participating in this discussion.


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

platinumdub-18t said:


> i am not undercutting anyone


You are 100% right, you're just making empty promises about undercutting with all your " out of the box designs" lol 



platinumdub-18t said:


> wow so much for an info sharing forumn. maybe if you were to read up on my other projects you might realize that i am working quite far outside of the box on some other things right now and may be about to do the same here. should see the mk2 i have built entirely out of mk4 me7 platform bud


Tried looking for that, no success... However I did find you talking/posting "in depth" about a swap you have yet to even scratch the surface on... But apparently you have become an expert even though you have yet to post any relevant data or content, or done any R&D or trial and error yourself. How surprising. 

Its one thing to info share, but another thing entirely to sit there like a bottom feeder and live off of others R&D or time spent. And post talking about it as if you have contributed..

Everything you have posted is already public knowledge and covered in various other VR threads, why you dramatically mention certain topics as if your reinventing the wheel over there when in reality you are just regurgitating discovered info..






platinumdub-18t said:


> and be assured you just motivated me to stop participating in this discussion.


Whaat? But what will all of us do without all your expert regurtitated data and without your "out of the box" ideas/thinking? 

Oh yea I remember now, right back to actually working on our real projects using trial and error and posting about it to REALLY contribute.


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## platinumdub-18t (Jul 1, 2008)

bud you know nothing about me or the work i do. my projects are all on a forumn called www.customobsessions.com. go check it out, search my same username and prepare to realize how wrong you are. i build at least an engine a month for more projects than you can imagine. for me, this 24v swap is for next winter. my personal work takes a back seat to my commitments for other people. this summer i need to finish a mid engine drag car which i am building with a friend for our company. 

grow up. pm me if you would like to continue this.


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## Frijolero (Oct 29, 2013)

Any updates?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

Frijolero said:


> Any updates?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Same. I'm curious about this a well.


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## Frijolero (Oct 29, 2013)

AAdontworkx3 said:


> Same. I'm curious about this a well.


Go check nyeurotuner 's Instagram. Lots of updates on there. Same name on Instagram. 

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Rodgman15 (Apr 26, 2014)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7233036-My-VR6-Journey


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

So what is everyone choice when doing a VR swap between a A4 and a S4? Other than rear differential..what is the difference?


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

Rapid Decompression said:


> So what is everyone choice when doing a VR swap between a A4 and a S4? Other than rear differential..what is the difference?


Most who swap the VR end up using S4 drive line since it’s stronger. 

A4 trans and rear diff is like glass with any motor putting out more power than stock. 

The S4 01E trans and rear diff is very stout. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NYEuroTuner (Feb 4, 2008)

If anyone wants updates I’ve documented pretty much all of My build and it’s evolution on YouTube and Instagram 

IG: NYEuroTuner 


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbqIFYhz1A-CgizOxr-ai7gXE_bMTK2_i


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

NYEuroTuner said:


> Most who swap the VR end up using S4 drive line since it’s stronger.
> 
> A4 trans and rear diff is like glass with any motor putting out more power than stock.
> 
> ...











Thanks for that explanation good sir


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

Not sure if this thread is still alive, but if you intend to keep AC on this swap, then the 3.2l touareg accessory bracket works well with 24v. Both the stock S4 and VR touareg use the same AC compressor, so it's a direct-bolt on, but the hard lines need to be modified/manipulated to reach the compressor. 

Also, if you plan to use the 24v 034 fuel rail, the touareg belt tensioner is a great companion, since it opens up some space for the line fittings.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

AAdontworkx3 said:


> Not sure if this thread is still alive


Little to no traction in here however that is good information you just provided. Any chance of pics to show what you've done as far as hardline routing?


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

Sadly, I used the path of the existing lines, which spans across the oil pan. What began as "let's see if this 5hit works" became a necessity, especially in Texas heat. Now that it's a permanent addition to the swap, I've decided to revisit the issue and have narrowed it down to a few choices: Cut//bend/extend/weld the original lines along a safer path, build a skid plate to protect both the lines and the oil pan, or a hybrid of both. Regardless of the route I go, I can post up pics when I finish. :thumbup:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

AAdontworkx3 said:


> Sadly, I used the path of the existing lines, which spans across the oil pan.
> Regardless of the route I go, I can post up pics when I finish. :thumbup:


My plans are to route across/near the oil pan also even though to me that is not ideal. Have not put a ton of thought into it yet though. Non-ac daily cars are not an option in FL either. Look forward to seeing the finished installation. :thumbup:


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

FYI: Never saw this in the parts list, but the eurovan intake manifold gasket 022133227A is flat and can be used between a head and short runner manifold.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Did you ever finish your AC installation? If so how's it holding up? I've had AC in mine for a few months now.

Some details on my build, though not AC specific found @
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2771198-SHOW-ME-your-custom-VRT-set-ups/page158


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## AAdontworkx3 (Oct 1, 2002)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> Did you ever finish your AC installation? If so how's it holding up? I've had AC in mine for a few months now.
> 
> Some details on my build, though not AC specific found @
> https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2771198-SHOW-ME-your-custom-VRT-set-ups/page158


I haven't. I parked it back in May when I ruined the clutch and I refused to go near it until this heat settled - you know how summer is in the south. It should be back to 100% soon, then I'll revisit the AC. 

I saw your build specs in the link. If you're planning to attend FixxFest this year, I'd like to check it out.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

AAdontworkx3 said:


> I saw your build specs in the link. If you're planning to attend FixxFest this year, I'd like to check it out.


Yep, should be there... as time approaches we can coordinate. :thumbup:

Assume no chance of your B5 making the trip given the AC and clutch issues with respect to time of Fixx...


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