# ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question



## blue98jettavr6 (Mar 19, 2001)

This question is for anyone who has done this please.
Is it posible to replace the stock rod bolts with ARP bolts once the oil pan is removed? 
I know there some FI guys out there running big boost (18-25psi) on stock rods but I'm just trying to see if the rod bolts can be replaced without pulling the pistons.


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (blue98jettavr6)*

Yes, just be sure to follow the tq up instructions....


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## Gizzy (Jan 22, 2006)

yeah you can do it


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (Gizzy)*

It can be done


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (blue98jettavr6)*

why not change the rod bearings for an extra 50 bucks while your at it?
i believe ARP 2000s which is the only rod bolt ARP makes for stock VR6 rods get torqued to 38ftlbs if i remember right. torque them down three times before the final torque down to get all the stretch out of them.
IPP has sets of ARP2000 rod bolts for around 78 bucks when i bought mine a while back.


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## blue98jettavr6 (Mar 19, 2001)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_why not change the rod bearings for an extra 50 bucks while your at it?
i believe ARP 2000s which is the only rod bolt ARP makes for stock VR6 rods get torqued to 38ftlbs if i remember right. torque them down three times before the final torque down to get all the stretch out of them.
IPP has sets of ARP2000 rod bolts for around 78 bucks when i bought mine a while back.

So do you use OEM rod bearing? Ggp-turbo.de has black coated race bearing on there site. 
Would that be IIP.com ?


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (blue98jettavr6)*

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/
i would just use OEM bearings from here:
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/index.php


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_torque them down three times before the final torque down to get all the stretch out of them.

That's weird as I thought the whole idea of the ARP bolts is they don't stretch?
Not disagreeing with you. I have them in my rods too, but I just never understood that!


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (kevhayward)*

What are the torque specs on the ARP head studs for a vr6? I bought a used set that didn't have the spec sheet with them.


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (kevhayward)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevhayward* »_
That's weird as I thought the whole idea of the ARP bolts is they don't stretch?
Not disagreeing with you. I have them in my rods too, but I just never understood that!

i know thats what i thought but even the ARP directions said to get all the stretch out of them when installing new ones. never hurts
as far as head stud torque if its boosted i would do around 80 to 85ftlbs.... any less than that with high boost and ive seen blown head gaskets. torque them down more and it fixed the problem. my friend that works at a racing shop had a mustang that kept blowing gaskets until he torqued them to over 90...and it even had a decked block and fresh head.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (oilpangasket)*

Just curious. Anyone ever break an OEM rod bolt and if so at what psi/hp/tq? I used all OE stuff in my motor to save $$ as I thought ARP was overkill for my modest setup. From searching it seems the pistons then rods are the two weakest links so do ARP rod bolts on stock pistons and rods really make sense?


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (slc92)*

Yes but why risk a high-dollar engine on some bolts, if it buys peace of mind its worth it


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (slc92)*

the main idea of headstuds is too increase clamping force so you dont blow headgaskets. i dont really think its possible to break a stock headbolt since your head gasket will blow first. stock oem headbolts cant be torqued that much until they snap.... i tried it once to see how much torque i could tighten them too in a junk block and they held over 90ftlbs but one broke. plus they stretch so much you can never use them again.
i would say with low boost oem headbolts will be ok, wouldnt hurt to be safe and get a set of even the cheap arp rod bolts. i heard 302 rodbolts are almost the same and will work but ive never tried it nor do i ever plan to.


_Modified by oilpangasket at 7:49 PM 1-16-2008_


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (KubotaPowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubotaPowered* »_Yes but why risk a high-dollar engine on some bolts, if it buys peace of mind its worth it

I hear what you are saying but you can really say that about anything. Why risk a high dollar engine using stock cast pistons would be more my thinking b/c I've seen holes in them. People put diffs in transmissions b/c they break even at low power levels. I just haven't seen anyone break rod bolts. I'm sure it's been done. I'm just wondering at what power level. If you upgrade something that isn't the weakest link in your motor or known to break have you really upgraded it?


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_the main idea of headstuds is too increase clamping force so you dont blow headgaskets. 
_Modified by oilpangasket at 7:49 PM 1-16-2008_

Check thread title. Question was about rod bolts.


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (slc92)*

its a win or lose game. ive seen stock bottom ends hold up to over 300hp and some fail around 250. never hurts to buy them and put them in.


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
Check thread title. Question was about rod bolts.

sry bout that eating and reading at the same time


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## Gizzy (Jan 22, 2006)

I rather put them in from the beginning than wonder why theres a hole in the side of my block if the stock ones decide to let go.


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## oilpangasket (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: (Gizzy)*

yeah thats what im saying.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_its a win or lose game. ive seen stock bottom ends hold up to over 300hp and some fail around 250. never hurts to buy them and put them in.

No question it doesn't hurt. Most of us, including me, have limited funds though. I tend to spend my $$ on things that are known to break and try to sure up the "weakest link" first. For example, an LSD and upgraded pressure plate for drag racing. 
Again, just curious if stock rod bolts actually fail and at what power level.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (Gizzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gizzy* »_I rather put them in from the beginning than wonder why theres a hole in the side of my block if the stock ones decide to let go.

I understand the thinking. My question is why the bolts if the pistons will fail first? Answer: They are cheaper. Anyone blow a hole in their block using stock rod bolts?


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
I understand the thinking. My question is why the bolts if the pistons will fail first? Answer: They are cheaper. Anyone blow a hole in their block using stock rod bolts?

Im sure someone has


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_its a win or lose game. ive seen stock bottom ends hold up to over 300hp and some fail around 250. never hurts to buy them and put them in.

the only VRs that blow at that level are ones that were put together poorly, or were running crap setups. IIRC Chris Green put down over 700Whp using a stock bottom end.


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## uamadman (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (TBT-Syncro)*

Ive got 400+ hp on stock internals ... The bottom end on a properlly built tuned motor is good upto 450 to 500 ... then you risk the start of pretzeling rods... that is not pretty.


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## blue98jettavr6 (Mar 19, 2001)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (uamadman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uamadman* »_Ive got 400+ hp on stock internals ... The bottom end on a properlly built tuned motor is good upto 450 to 500 ... then you risk the start of pretzeling rods... that is not pretty.

Crank or Wheel HP???

When you guys say stock bottom end, what does that consist off exactly? I assume OEM everything from the piston on down.
OR
do you mean stock internal with arp rod bolts? I know that comment is made often but with the exception of head bolts.


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## uamadman (Aug 5, 2007)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (blue98jettavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blue98jettavr6* »_
Crank or Wheel HP???

When you guys say stock bottom end, what does that consist off exactly? I assume OEM everything from the piston on down.
OR
do you mean stock internal with arp rod bolts? I know that comment is made often but with the exception of head bolts.

dynoed 371 whp at 12 pounds of boost ... running 16 to 18 now
stock bolts stock crank stock rods stock pistons across the bottom end. APR head studs, head spacer, and cams on the top. that is it.


_Modified by uamadman at 2:22 PM 1-24-2008_


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (oilpangasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oilpangasket* »_
i would just use OEM bearings from here:
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/index.php

We appreciate the referral.
And for those wanting to do ARP rod bolts on their VR6, we stock them by the hundreds and *GUARANTEE* the best pricing on all ARP hardware for your watercooled Volkswagen.
All ARP items ship either same day or next business day! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## machineman-baltimore (Feb 15, 2008)

*Re: ARP rod bolts on a vr6 Question (blue98jettavr6)*

You can do it but I recommend having the rods reconditioned when you change from OEM rod bolts to aftermarket rod bolts. Most aftermarket bolts like ARP have a higher tensile strength and they distort the housing bore in a different way than the OEM bolts did.
Guys do it but I can promise you that it affects the bearing wear.


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## elements757 (Sep 24, 2005)

so would recondition rods be better than OEM rods getting shot peened? I plan to shot peen my rods and get a MJM Block rebuild kit. Should I be good? What would be my limit on HP? I plan to stay within the 6psi range.


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## turbo_20v (Nov 1, 2007)

You don't torque arp rod bolts 3 times to "get the stretch out" this is rather to burnish the threads and mating surfaces togheter so that the most accurate loading is achieved without using a stretch gauge. 
There's really no reason to upgrade rod bolts unless the stock ones routinely fail at the RPM ranges your running at. Adding torque to the equation does not mean you need a better rod bolt, in fact the rod bolts wont' even notice the difference. RPM is what kills rod bolts due to the forces generated acting directly on the bolts when decelerating the piston as it comes up to TDC. 
By recondition he is meaning that the ARP bolts will distort the big end bore more then the stockers due to the increased clamp so they would be cut down slightly and then honed back to round with the new bolts in place at the proper torque, ensuring 100% round.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (turbo_20v)*

you cant just drop the oil pan and put them in. the rods will NEED reconditioned. but i guess if the motor has 130,000 on her, maybe you can putting them in. there is a press to push the old rods bolts out and new ones in, so they seat, cause they dont stretch, your just trying to seat the bolt when your tq'ing it while doing them in the car.


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## cant get a password (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

I just put mine in and the spec sheet that came with them says to use a stretch gauge.Stretch bolts to .0078 if you do not have a stretch gauge use apr moly lube and torque to 38ft lbs. loosen and torque again a 2nd then loosen and torque a 3rd time.A log should be kept of on the original non torqued length of each bolt.Bolts that have any permanent deformation or increase in length should be replaced.This is directly from the instructions that came with mine.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (cant get a password)*

you should still not put them in without getting the rods reconditioned. i worked in an automotive machine shop and im anal now...


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