# Gentlemen start your engines (JB1 and JB4 coming in the next couple of weeks)



## rocketjay1 (Jan 25, 2018)

Spoke to Burger Motorsport about the 2018 tiguan and they said JB1 and JB4 coming in the next couple of weeks they are plug and plays no voided warranty http://www.burgertuning.com/volkswagen_vw.html


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

George Smooth has been hinting about it for the last couple of months. This is definitely getting released way before any tune. I'm not holding my breath, but I would be happy if it's out by April-May. I'm most likely ordering as soon as it's released!!


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## bateau (Jun 16, 2013)

*Gentlemen start your engines*

Awesome! I was about to email George to ask how that is coming along. 

Although it would be a bummer if it requires 91 like other JB tunes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Posted on January 7th from a Facebook group :


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

bateau said:


> Awesome! I was about to email George to ask how that is coming along.
> 
> Although it would be a bummer if it requires 91 like other JB tunes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I look forward to the JB4, but I don't miss fueling oct 93 (currently using oct 87).

But when you tune a car (higher boost, AFR, etc), you need to use higher octane fuel. It's part of the game. Using anyting below 91 won't only get you lower gains, it may even hurt the engine.


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## bateau (Jun 16, 2013)

Bawlti said:


> But when you tune a car (higher boost, AFR, etc), you need to use higher octane fuel. It's part of the game. Using anyting below 91 won't only get you lower gains, it may even hurt the engine.


Yeah I know you gotta pay to play. Just did our first fill-up of Tiguan - 18.2 MPG (all short in-town trips). A stark departure from TDI JSW where our lowest was 27.

APR can do 87 tune for EA888 Gen 3 (which we aren't) and the difference between 87 Stage 1 vs 91 Stage 1 is minuscule. Here are numbers for 1.8T Gen3:

APR Stage I	87 AKI	91 RON	234 HP	273 FT-LBS	+65 HP	+78 FT-LBS
APR Stage I	91 AKI	95 RON	240 HP	285 FT-LBS	+72 HP	+90 FT-LBS

I think what JB1/4 have going against them is the fact it's a piggyback and thus doesn't have access to as many variables as full ECU flash. I'm not starting JB vs APR here. Both are fine products, just lamenting a personal problem.


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## balesm01 (Mar 7, 2003)

Just emailed George yesterday. They are working on the ECU encryption and they "think" they should have a JB1/4 late April.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

i am not that familiar with JB - but is this a reliable alternative to tuning? such as APR? 
from what i am reading, this sounds like just a "piggy back" system that overrides the ECU files in real time (ie mapping, fuel A/F ratios) so in the end how reliable could this really be?

sorry for the n00b questions, i just have always gone with an APR tune over any JB variant. BUT i am looking forward to what is released!


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> i am not that familiar with JB - but is this a reliable alternative to tuning? such as APR?
> from what i am reading, this sounds like just a "piggy back" system that overrides the ECU files in real time (ie mapping, fuel A/F ratios) so in the end how reliable could this really be?
> 
> sorry for the n00b questions, i just have always gone with an APR tune over any JB variant. BUT i am looking forward to what is released!



I don't want to start this debate here, I'll just give me personal, honest and objective impressions.

Piggybacks are still new in the VW world. Burger Motorsports (BMS) are, by far, the leaders with the JB1/4.

The actual product is the JB4. JB1 is just a beta version, with fewer features. They still sell it, but the price difference with the JB4 is minimal, so I don't see why someone now would want to chose the JB1.

I had the chance to run a JB1 and then a Unitronic tune on my previous GTI. Both do a great job. I would give a small edge to tunes. Power delivery is smoother and it's slightly more powerful. Never tried the JB4, but it makes more power than the JB1, so I guess the gap is even smaller with tunes.

BMS really did a great entrance in the VW market. Their custumer service is TOP NOTCH. Personal opinion, I think most of the bad stuff that has been said about piggybacks come from tuners. They want to protect their market.

JB4 let you tweak a lot of stuff. You can add bolt-ons and adjust, without having to pay for a upgrade (stage 1 to stage 2 tune for exemple). You can also just leave it there with basic maps and recommended settings.

The good:
- it's cheaper than tunes and you don't need to pay for upgrades
- you can resell it, it has good value
- you can customize the settings
- industry leading costumer service
- when you remove it, it's undetectable by your dealer
- it will be released way before any tune

The bad:
- Slightly, really slightly less power than tunes

I personally will give them another try and go with a JB4 when it's released.


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## balesm01 (Mar 7, 2003)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> i am not that familiar with JB - but is this a reliable alternative to tuning? such as APR?
> from what i am reading, this sounds like just a "piggy back" system that overrides the ECU files in real time (ie mapping, fuel A/F ratios) so in the end how reliable could this really be?
> 
> sorry for the n00b questions, i just have always gone with an APR tune over any JB variant. BUT i am looking forward to what is released!



I have had cars with - Audi with GIAC and VW with APR - in the past. However recently VW/Audi have become more careful and strict about ECU flashing/modding. They have been a few cases in which cars got "flagged" or TD1 - which is sent directly to Germany - and possibly can void warranty (this is an open discussion if they can do that... ). 

Since I did not want to risk it on my Golf R (VW knows that we mod these cars no matter what) so I went with the Burger JB1 or JB4 "piggy back" unit. It works great and flawlessly. You don't get as much power as an APR tune but close ( +35 to 75 whp depending on the set up and bolts on). It is easy to install and remove - there is only one plug which is below the car and requires to remove the plastic shield - but can be done in 20-30 minutes. The beauty that there is no trace of a mod when you bring the car in for warranty services or issues. Also you can remove it and resell it - cannot do it with APR and others...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ation-Thread-7R-and-S3-Specific&highlight=jb1


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## balesm01 (Mar 7, 2003)

Bawlti said:


> I don't want to start this debate here, I'll just give me personal, honest and objective impressions.
> 
> Piggybacks are still new in the VW world. Burger Motorsports (BMS) are, by far, the leaders with the JB1/4.
> 
> ...



I agree with most of your points. The only big difference (which I don't like) between the install of JB1 vs a JB4 is that the JB4 requires to run the OBD cable thru the firewall of the car (don't really like to mess around with that) and then requires to be plugged into the OBD to function. You don't need to do that with the JB1 and since you might change a map only a few times - you can just use the external cable and your computer.

Yes, the JB4 gives you more options and power - in addition to bluetooth connection to your phone to change maps and more...


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

I agree with what you said too. Pretty much summed up what the JB4 is.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

thanks for the responses everyone! it is appreciated!

i have always got with a tuner on past cars, so that is why my knowledge is limited with JB products, but sounds like i may be making the jump to JB for the Tig!


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## bateau (Jun 16, 2013)

balesm01 said:


> They are working on the ECU encryption and they "think" they should have a JB1/4 late April.


Why would ECU encryption be an issue for a piggyback? The whole concept of piggyback is that it avoids modifying ECU. Instead it feeds modified inputs into factory sensors to trick ECU. 

I wonder if they need access to ECU to develop mapping of fake vs real values to achieve desired effect from ECU. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## balesm01 (Mar 7, 2003)

bateau said:


> Why would ECU encryption be an issue for a piggyback? The whole concept of piggyback is that it avoids modifying ECU. Instead it feeds modified inputs into factory sensors to trick ECU.
> 
> I wonder if they need access to ECU to develop mapping of fake vs real values to achieve desired effect from ECU.
> 
> ...


Yes, I think they need to access the map/values (trim, Oxygen, fuel, timing etc...) to remap with the JB. To modify the new input they need to know the existing values.


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## reelknead1 (Oct 7, 2007)

balesm01 said:


> Yes, I think they need to access the map/values (trim, Oxygen, fuel, timing etc...) to remap with the JB. To modify the new input they need to know the existing values.


I would assume the gathering of that data would be done through data logging. The VAGCOM has the ability to monitor and log all of that in real time.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

I figured this thread needed a bump.

As stated in the APR thread, the JB4 is expected as early as next month. We have a member who should be a beta tester.

Can't wait, my Tig desperately needs some more power!


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Ah the irony of bumping a thread saying it would be coming in a couple weeks back in January for a new rumor it will come out next month.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

socialD said:


> Ah the irony of bumping a thread saying it would be coming in a couple weeks back in January for a new rumor it will come out next month.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

socialD said:


> Ah the irony of bumping a thread saying it would be coming in a couple weeks back in January for a new rumor it will come out next month.





vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Well, in post #2 of this present thread, I wrote that I expected a Apri-May release, so I was pretty spot on 

We're really actually moving closer to an actual release.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

oh, agreed.
im not laughing at you or the post, just the way SocialD put it is all.

:beer::beer::beer:


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## balesm01 (Mar 7, 2003)

Just got this from George at Burger:

“We are nearly done with it. There was a delay in delivery of the Polo GTI we ordered and its coming only next month. We just need to confirm compatibility of the unit to that car as well before we release.
I reckon by the end of may we should be good to go.

Thanks,

George”


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

Perfect timing. Mine will be showing up in the next few weeks and I’ll be power hungry immediately.


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## GoinCoastal (Feb 11, 2018)

This might be a silly question, but what are the odds that this works on my 2018 Beetle 2.0T? Same engine but the 6G transmission.


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