# Leasing the new A3



## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

There is a story in the October 26 Los Angeles Times covering the pricing news from late last week. It mostly just covers what we already know, but there is an interesting few sentences about how much leasing might happen with the new A3.

"These features are meant to tempt shoppers lured into leasing a vehicle they might not otherwise be able to afford, Toprak said. At least 60% of the 2015 A3 sedans will be leased, Toprak predicted, with even higher numbers for the CLA. This compares with an industry average of 26%."

I was thinking that leasing would be a bad idea because money factors on A3's have typically been terrible. But I wonder if Audi will try and compete with Mercedes on lease rates given the early success by Mercedes. Anyone have any insight on this?


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

the ultimate leasing machines


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FFS, maybe they really will be moving volume in the base configuration. :banghead:


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

they will have to have corporate subsidized lease if they want to move any cars. Given when the last A3 came out, w/o subsidizes leasing, people were leasing them for $600/month (some as company car, while others, I don't even know why they leased it), thus they ended up with a very small pool of A3 enthusiasts that was willing to lay that amount just to have the A3.

If Audi don't want to give people a firm monthly number, then once those people walk out of the showroom, they could just walk down to MB dealer for that $329/month deal that they heard about.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

LWNY said:


> they will have to have corporate subsidized lease if they want to move any cars. Given when the last A3 came out, w/o subsidizes leasing, people were leasing them for $600/month (some as company car, while others, I don't even know why they leased it), thus they ended up with a very small pool of A3 enthusiasts that was willing to lay that amount just to have the A3.
> 
> If Audi don't want to give people a firm monthly number, then once those people walk out of the showroom, they could just walk down to MB dealer for that $329/month deal that they heard about.


Mercedes Benz and BMW have far better residual rates. Audi's hover in the mid-low 50's. BMW's and MB's can crest 60% for similar terms. BMW will also slash $4k or more off the MSRP of a lease, too. Add it all up and throw in a decent money factor, and it's not unusual for someone to see a lower monthly rate on a 335 or 528 as compared to an A4. 

I've never understood Audi's stance on lease rates. they make gobs and gobs of money on leased cars becuase they're the gift that never stops giving. There's money to be made on the initial sale, money to be made when the dealers to bid on the returned car, money to be made from the CPO process, and then money from the final sale. it's a good racket. My bald-faced guess has always been that Audi has a certain production limit and they price accordingly to extract the maximum amount of money they can get, given the supply.


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

FractureCritical said:


> Mercedes Benz and BMW have far better residual rates. Audi's hover in the mid-low 50's. BMW's and MB's can crest 60% for similar terms. BMW will also slash $4k or more off the MSRP of a lease, too. Add it all up and throw in a decent money factor, and it's not unusual for someone to see a lower monthly rate on a 335 or 528 as compared to an A4.
> 
> I've never understood Audi's stance on lease rates. they make gobs and gobs of money on leased cars becuase they're the gift that never stops giving. There's money to be made on the initial sale, money to be made when the dealers to bid on the returned car, money to be made from the CPO process, and then money from the final sale. it's a good racket. My bald-faced guess has always been that Audi has a certain production limit and they price accordingly to extract the maximum amount of money they can get, given the supply.


Each company sets their own residual rates, right? I just think Audi sets those rates artificially low to ensure they make money again when the car is returned. They could easily match those of Mercedes/BMW, and that would drive sales volumes higher.

I think the prediction that "at least 60% of the 2015 A3 sedans will be leased" will be way off if Audi does not support a good lease program. I'm planning to buy, but might consider a lease given the right terms.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

I've never really looked into leasing. I average ~25k miles +/- 3k a year.. Don't most leases expect an avg of 10k? That's nothing!


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

I'd be curious to hear from ProjectA3 or others in the know about lease options for the A3. I'm assuming that information will need to be available very soon if it's not already. Will Audi try and match what MB did with the CLA250? I'm still planning to buy, but it would be good to have as much info as possible.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

conlson said:


> I'd be curious to hear from ProjectA3 or others in the know about lease options for the A3. I'm assuming that information will need to be available very soon if it's not already. Will Audi try and match what MB did with the CLA250? I'm still planning to buy, but it would be good to have as much info as possible.


Quality thread bump. No, really. :thumbup:

I have no intention of leasing, but I'm very curious as well. I think this is one of the bigger unknowns that will really emphasize Audi's intentions and goals for this car.


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## Professor Gascan (Sep 11, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> Mercedes Benz and BMW have far better residual rates. Audi's hover in the mid-low 50's. BMW's and MB's can crest 60% for similar terms. BMW will also slash $4k or more off the MSRP of a lease, too. Add it all up and throw in a decent money factor, and it's not unusual for someone to see a lower monthly rate on a 335 or 528 as compared to an A4.
> 
> I've never understood Audi's stance on lease rates. they make gobs and gobs of money on leased cars becuase they're the gift that never stops giving. There's money to be made on the initial sale, money to be made when the dealers to bid on the returned car, money to be made from the CPO process, and then money from the final sale. it's a good racket. My bald-faced guess has always been that Audi has a certain production limit and they price accordingly to extract the maximum amount of money they can get, given the supply.


BMW, and to a lesser extent MB, subsidize the residual on their cars to make the leases more attractive. Think of it in the same way as GM saying they'll give you $2000 manufacturer rebate on a vehicle. It's just a less visible form of company incentive. Audi doesn't prop up their residuals in North America because they haven't had to. They're at a point where they're still supply limited on most products, and spending money to raise residuals to make more attractive leases hasn't been a requirement.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

The MB CLA on other boards NO ONE is seeing this magic $329 number $3k down or even the $359 BMW 228i with 3K. With dealer fees, Acquisition fee and taxes , license and tags and whatever extra insurances and pre-paid service you looking at $34K well in $460+ range

http://www.leaseguide.com/


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

livestrong191 said:


> The MB CLA on other boards NO ONE is seeing this magic $329 number $3k down or even the $359 BMW 228i with 3K. With dealer fees, Acquisition fee and taxes , license and tags and whatever extra insurances and pre-paid service you looking at $34K well in $460+ range
> 
> http://www.leaseguide.com/


I imagine the magic numbers are on their base cars, so for the CLA, the same $29,900 as the A3. If Audi chooses to pitch a cheap lease on the base car, I suspect you'll see the same "issue" at Audi as I really can't imagine they're going to pump out a bunch of base cars.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dan Halen said:


> I imagine the magic numbers are on their base cars, so for the CLA, the same $29,900 as the A3. If Audi chooses to pitch a cheap lease on the base car, I suspect you'll see the same "issue" at Audi as I really can't imagine they're going to pump out a bunch of base cars.



No both BMW and MB for the leasing was with a premium package and LED or Xeon lights. Both cars $33800+ - in the fine print.

People see those numbers ( $329 and $359)and bring those numbers and there $3k down to dealerships and basically people get shell shocked and way out of there monthly payment comfort zone when the dealer shows there numbers.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

I only lease. If the offers are not competitive I will not be getting an A3.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

livestrong191 said:


> No both BMW and MB for the leasing was with a premium package and LED or Xeon lights. Both cars $33800+ - in the fine print.
> 
> People see those numbers ( $329 and $359)and bring those numbers and there $3k down to dealerships and basically people get shell shocked and way out of there monthly payment comfort zone when the dealer shows there numbers.


Yeah, that's like these builders that advertise a $200,000 house for $600/mo. The creditworthiness of the buyer you attract with such a figure runs counter to the creditworthiness of a buyer who can actually fulfill the fine-print stipulations of the teaser payment in order to get to that payment (20% down, etc).


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

livestrong191 said:


> The MB CLA on other boards NO ONE is seeing this magic $329 number $3k down or even the $359 BMW 228i with 3K. With dealer fees, Acquisition fee and taxes , license and tags and whatever extra insurances and pre-paid service you looking at $34K well in $460+ range
> 
> http://www.leaseguide.com/


I've seen people with 3 Series MSRPs between 35k to 39k leasing for <400/month with $0 down payment. Still have to pay acquisition/title obviously.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dan Halen said:


> Yeah, that's like these builders that advertise a $200,000 house for $600/mo. The creditworthiness of the buyer you attract with such a figure runs counter to the creditworthiness of a buyer who can actually fulfill the fine-print stipulations of the teaser payment in order to get to that payment (20% down, etc).


I always ask the dealership for $0 money down price and I want to see all the numbers they plug in. They like to charge you Acquisition fee $925 and Dealer fee $500 when you can see BMW and MB are setting $729 AQ fee and $399 Dealer fee. Money factor is where they screw everyone and make money. Starting off BMW as an example .0013 nation wide advertised and Dealer starting basis .0015(making money off the bat) then bad credit or so so .0024 (money raining form the heavens for the dealer ) plus first month payment and you never even driven the car or had the car in your name . MUST ASK FOR ALL THE NUMBERS.

1) Do not put money ( as soon as you drive it off the lot and are in a accident then that money is gone).
2) The money you wanted to put down put that money down as Multiple deposits ( your monthly payment which lowers your money payments). If you get in a accident as soon as you leave the lot or anytime during ur lease your deposit is safe and plus at the end of the lease you get that money back .


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

outshined said:


> I've seen people with 3 Series MSRPs between 35k to 39k leasing for <400/month with $0 down payment. Still have to pay acquisition/title obviously.


Play with the leaseguide calculator. You do not know what they prepaid or what they got for there trades to bring those numbers down. Call a dealer today and ask them for a quote on a CLA $35k with zero down


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

livestrong191 said:


> 1) Do not put money ( as soon as you drive it off the lot and are in a accident then that money is gone).
> 2) The money you wanted to put down put that money down as Multiple deposits ( your monthly payment which lowers your money payments). If you get in a accident as soon as you leave the lot or anytime during ur lease your deposit is safe and plus at the end of the lease you get that money back .


The only caveat to #2 is that if you want to exit your lease early for whatever reason, the person taking it over needs to reimburse you. That said, the savings on my M235 lease that we just computed were 3x for security deposits vs money down.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

livestrong191 said:


> The MB CLA on other boards NO ONE is seeing this magic $329 number $3k down or even the $359 BMW 228i with 3K. With dealer fees, Acquisition fee and taxes , license and tags and whatever extra insurances and pre-paid service you looking at $34K well in $460+ range
> 
> http://www.leaseguide.com/


If you want a good gauge of real world numbers, head over to the Edmunds.com "Prices Paid/Leases" threads for each brand and model. There are a lot of folks getting very good deals on 320s and 328s in the upper 3s-low 4s with little out of pocket. A lot depends on location (taxes) and programs that may be in effect for certain markets.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

livestrong191 said:


> Play with the leaseguide calculator. You do not know what they prepaid or what they got for there trades to bring those numbers down. Call a dealer today and ask them for a quote on a CLA $35k with zero down


I do know. MSRP just over 36k was 350/month with 1500 total due and MSRP just over 38k was 390/month with 1500 total due.


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

Was just at the dealer while they got the numbers.
36mo 15k miles: 60% residual, .00182 MF Prem/P+ 2.0T
$750 loyalty on lease


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

grepped said:


> Was just at the dealer while they got the numbers.
> 36mo 15k miles: 60% residual, .00182 MF Prem/P+
> $750 loyalty on lease


Plugging those into a lease calc gets me $554/mo for 36 months with an 8% tax rate for where I live.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

**** that. LOL

That's 15,000 miles per year, sure, but... just no. It's 4.37% interest. That's a big reason why, I guess.


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

554? Assume that's for P/P+ fully loaded.

I'm seeing $487 if you include taxes in monthly for a base 2.0T.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yeah, trying to back into the cap cost Travis used in his example, but too lazy to fool with it...

I can't imagine that the money factor is helping, though.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

60% for 15k/36 mos? Nice. Just have to get that rate down.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

grepped said:


> 554? Assume that's for P/P+ fully loaded.
> 
> I'm seeing $487 if you include taxes in monthly for a base 2.0T.


IIRC, I was doing an MSRP of $40,500 and a sales price of $37,900.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

I went to the dealer today and showed me his sales sheet and here is no numbers on A3 yet. I showed him the comment the person got numbers from a dealer and he showed the same numbers but they were on the A4 . So we will see


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I was told today when I went for the A3 that they received A3 residuals yesterday.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

I can confirm 60% residual for 36 month/12,000 mile lease. Waiting on money factor info.


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## hockeymutt (Mar 10, 2014)

expect these leases to be at the 400 range but they will advertise 330 with 2-3k down just like Mercedes is doing. Audi might have trouble as well because the GTI fully optioned after negotiating can be had for 330-360 on a lease with no money down. It will be almost the same car minus 4 circles in the grille and AWD.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

A lot depends on how much Audi decides to subvent the leases in order to drive volume. Traditionally they've not played that game, allowing the car to (more or less) sell on its own merits. With the volume that Audi is expecting, however, I suspect we're going to see them starting to play the lease game ala BMW. There are a lot of great cars out there to be had in the $400-$450/month range, the question is if the 'milennials' they so target can afford that (I suspect the answer there is 'no').



hockeymutt said:


> expect these leases to be at the 400 range but they will advertise 330 with 2-3k down just like Mercedes is doing. Audi might have trouble as well because the GTI fully optioned after negotiating can be had for 330-360 on a lease with no money down. It will be almost the same car minus 4 circles in the grille and AWD.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Any word on residual for S3? Was talking to BMW dealer the other day, M3/M4 are in the 50s while the M235 I was looking at was 63%, reason he gave was that M cars are typically driven harder, more aggressively, beaten up more etc. I don't buy his logic as M cars hold value better than non-M BMWs, and would assume the same for S Audi but who the hell knows.


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

conlson said:


> I can confirm 60% residual for 36 month/12,000 mile lease. Waiting on money factor info.


Sorry, that was bad information. Here's what I got from my dealer:

36 month lease, 12k/year, 62% residual, 0.00212 money factor

Residual increases by 1% if you add Audi Care for $810. That covers 5k (no cost), 15k ($285), 25k ($217) and 35k ($534) services.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

conlson said:


> Sorry, that was bad information. Here's what I got from my dealer:
> 
> 36 month lease, 12k/year, 62% residual, 0.00212 money factor
> 
> Residual increases by 1% if you add Audi Care for $810. That covers 5k (no cost), 15k ($285), 25k ($217) and 35k ($534) services.


With that you get $491/mo tax in (@ 8%) on a $40,500 MSRP car.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

Is that .00212 top tier? Ouch


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

conlson said:


> Sorry, that was bad information. Here's what I got from my dealer:
> 
> 36 month lease, 12k/year, 62% residual, 0.00212 money factor
> 
> Residual increases by 1% if you add Audi Care for $810. That covers 5k (no cost), 15k ($285), 25k ($217) and 35k ($534) services.


That money factor seems way high you should confirm the audi base %


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

5.088%. I know precisely where they can shove that noise.

For comparison's sake, unless interest rates go up in the next six months, I'm looking at the equivalent of a 0.000792 money factor for my financing.

As a quick rule, multiply the stated money factor by 2400 to see what the equivalent interest rate would be.


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

I thought we were seeing 2.9% APR's for financing now.

.00212 is a bit higher (~16%) than what I was told, but I would be interested in knowing which trim it was for first, as mine was only for Premium 2.0T. I put P+ as well initially because I believed they were the same, but thinking back, that was an assumption based off of incorrect information.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Mmm. Wayyyy to high

Mercedes CLA .0016
BMW 2 series .0013


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

I was talking with my sales manager yesterday, and after seeing the lease rates, the money factor in particular, last Friday, he promptly emailed AFS back and said "thanks but try again"

the residual is actually OK for the car, but the money factor is .001 higher than a comparable A4. I worked a lease on my incoming $44k Prestige quattro, a $6000 lower MSRP than my current allroad, and the A3 was around $50 more expensive. That is unacceptable. I am also figuring about $2300 negative equity into the equation, but the money factor is killing this.
I plugged in an A4 money factor with the A3 residual, keeping all else the same, and the payment dropped nearly $80 per month.

I REALLY hope that once April hits, that Audi will change things back to a more normal level. If they don't they can see quick sales of this car stumble at the starting block and none of us want to see that.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Once you start going after the same buying segment who are on the MB or BMW lease carousel, you need to start hitting specific price points. The car becomes less important than the monthly lease price. 

Audi will no doubt be able to steal a handful of sales from MB and BMW at a _marginally_ higher price point, but if Audi wants to build serious momentum with volume A3 sales they will have to be very competitive with BMW and MB rates. If a comparable A3 prices out at $80 - $100/mo more than the competition it will have a detrimental impact on the drive for volume. 



ProjectA3 said:


> I was talking with my sales manager yesterday, and after seeing the lease rates, the money factor in particular, last Friday, he promptly emailed AFS back and said "thanks but try again"
> 
> the residual is actually OK for the car, but the money factor is .001 higher than a comparable A4. I worked a lease on my incoming $44k Prestige quattro, a $6000 lower MSRP than my current allroad, and the A3 was around $50 more expensive. That is unacceptable. I am also figuring about $2300 negative equity into the equation, but the money factor is killing this.
> I plugged in an A4 money factor with the A3 residual, keeping all else the same, and the payment dropped nearly $80 per month.
> ...


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ProjectA3 said:


> I was talking with my sales manager yesterday, and after seeing the lease rates, the money factor in particular, last Friday, he promptly emailed AFS back and said "thanks but try again"
> 
> the residual is actually OK for the car, but the money factor is .001 higher than a comparable A4. *I worked a lease on my incoming $44k Prestige quattro, a $6000 lower MSRP than my current allroad, and the A3 was around $50 more expensive. That is unacceptable.* I am also figuring about $2300 negative equity into the equation, *but the money factor is killing this.*
> I plugged in an A4 money factor with the A3 residual, keeping all else the same, and the payment dropped nearly $80 per month.
> ...


Absolute lunacy. Yeah, the MF has looked "off" the entire time to me.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Yeah there is no way I am paying 4% . I know MB and BMW dealers give the .0013 BMW or .0016 MB but always mark them up to BMW .0015 and MB .0018 to make money of you. That's why you have to ask them for the full lease work up sheet. If Audi Finance is providing the rate and the dealer jacks up rate and will no move cause he knows he making money, leave that dealership and try another one


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

livestrong191 said:


> Yeah there is no way I am paying 4% . I know MB and BMW dealers give the .0013 BMW or .0016 MB but always mark them up to BMW .0015 and MB .0018 to make money of you. That's why you have to ask them for the full lease work up sheet. If Audi Finance is providing the rate and the dealer jacks up rate and will no move cause he knows he making money, leave that dealership and try another one


So its a bad thing for a business to make a profit and be a business? do you do the same thing when you buy a can of corn or a soda at your local grocery store?


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

livestrong191 said:


> Yeah there is no way I am paying 4% . I know MB and BMW dealers give the .0013 BMW or .0016 MB but always mark them up to BMW .0015 and MB .0018 to make money of you. That's why you have to ask them for the full lease work up sheet. *If Audi Finance is providing the rate and the dealer jacks up rate and will no move cause he knows he making money, leave that dealership and try another one*





ProjectA3 said:


> So its a bad thing for a business to make a profit and be a business? do you do the same thing when you buy a can of corn or a soda at your local grocery store?


If I go into a store to buy a can or corn or a soda and it is significantly more than the same can of corn or soda at another store then I may leave that store and go somewhere else. The store can sell their product for whatever they want and the consumer can decide whether or not they want to buy it.


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

ProjectA3 said:


> I was talking with my sales manager yesterday, and after seeing the lease rates, the money factor in particular, last Friday, he promptly emailed AFS back and said "thanks but try again"
> 
> the residual is actually OK for the car, but the money factor is .001 higher than a comparable A4. I worked a lease on my incoming $44k Prestige quattro, a $6000 lower MSRP than my current allroad, and the A3 was around $50 more expensive. That is unacceptable. I am also figuring about $2300 negative equity into the equation, but the money factor is killing this.
> I plugged in an A4 money factor with the A3 residual, keeping all else the same, and the payment dropped nearly $80 per month.
> ...


Can you keep us updated on any changes or a response from AFS? I'm tempted to lease, but with those rates they are really pushing people to either buy, or walk away completely.


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## analytics51 (Feb 22, 2014)

*A3 Lease*



conlson said:


> Can you keep us updated o
> n any changes or a response from AFS? I'm tempted to lease, but with those rates they are really pushing people to either buy, or walk away completely.


I'm looking at a 58% residual for an A3 Prestige package. MSRP 42, 800. 10K .00212MF $661.32/Month. I'd laugh at how bad this is, but it's causing me to rethink this whole thing. Terrible numbers.


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## WRXGuy (Feb 20, 2002)

Ooof that MF is horrible... Dear AFS... You crazy. 

I wish them luck with those numbers, but I'll walk before I pay that amount.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

analytics51 said:


> I'm looking at a 58% residual for an A3 Prestige package. MSRP 42, 800. 10K .00212MF $661.32/Month. I'd laugh at how bad this is, but it's causing me to rethink this whole thing. Terrible numbers.


Just for reference, the BMW lease with tax for a $48,300 M235 I have been quoted is $619 with fees and whatnot up front but no cap cost reduction. If you're A3 numbers are right what in the world is the S3 going to come in at? Just doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of the other options out there.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BEM10001 said:


> Just for reference, *the BMW lease with tax for a $48,300 M235 I have been quoted is $619* with fees and whatnot up front but no cap cost reduction. If you're A3 numbers are right what in the world is the S3 going to come in at? Just doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of the other options out there.


That's equally as asinine to me. If I'm paying $600+ per month for a car, I'm going to own it. I'm not the buyer any of these companies are going after, though, because I'm not someone who is willing to accept such a payment as a routine cost of living. If I'm leasing, it's something cheap. I'm just not the goose that lays the golden egg for automakers. :laugh:


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Dan Halen said:


> That's equally as asinine to me. If I'm paying $600+ per month for a car, I'm going to own it. I'm not the buyer any of these companies are going after, though, because I'm not someone who is willing to accept such a payment as a routine cost of living. If I'm leasing, it's something cheap. I'm just not the goose that lays the golden egg for automakers. :laugh:


It's not asinine, there are a variety of benefits to leasing. It just might not be right for you. You've got a 2006 in your garage, I personally never keep my cars that long. If one's desire is to have a new car every three years, never drive a car out of warranty, and generally enjoy hassle free driving, there's a lot of upside. Not to mention that in certain states when leasing you only pay tax on the part of the car you use. Long story short, if you are keeping the car 3 years or less it's really a wash.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

BEM10001 said:


> It's not asinine, there are a variety of benefits to leasing. It just might not be right for you. You've got a 2006 in your garage, I personally never keep my cars that long. If one's desire is to have a new car every three years, never drive a car out of warranty, and generally enjoy hassle free driving, there's a lot of upside. Not to mention that in certain states when leasing you only pay tax on the part of the car you use. Long story short, if you are keeping the car 3 years or less it's really a wash.


These manufacturers love people like that, since they sell the 3 year old CPO far above residual.

Leasing seems like a good idea becuse it perpetually kicks the can down the road. But you've got no equity at any given instant. 

At $600/mo for a rental in these situations, I would venture thats a bad financial move for a lot of people. But thats the price people pay to drive a car they can't afford to impress people they dont even know, the entire reason the A3/CLA exist.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

ChrisFu said:


> These manufacturers love people like that, since they sell the 3 year old CPO far above residual.
> 
> Leasing seems like a good idea becuse it perpetually kicks the can down the road. But you've got no equity at any given instant.
> 
> At $600/mo for a rental in these situations, I would venture thats a bad financial move for a lot of people. But thats the price people pay to drive a car they can't afford to impress people they dont even know, the entire reason the A3/CLA exist.


#1. You have no idea what I can and cannot afford
#2. If I am going to keep a car for three years at max because I want to and can afford to get a new car that often or more frequently, by the time I buy a car, pay taxes, etc versus lease it there is literally negligible difference in out of pocket
#3. You're talking about a depreciating asset here. I don't care how special you think your new car is going to be, honestly it's not. NONE of them will hold value, so best case scenario you've paid $50K for something that is worth $25K 5 years out. Run an IRR calc on that. 

GRANTED if you want to keep a car for a long time, don't worry about not having a warranty, etc. yes you are better off buying. But that's not what I want. Look, not trying to start an argument here and I was just trying to provide some comps for someone who I felt was getting a crazy bad deal on a lease. That said I don't appreciate your tone, if it was said in general that's fine but until you are either paying everyone's bills or charging them a few bps to manage their money, if someone wants to lease a car we as a community can help them get a good / honest / fair lease deal and not belittle the whole process.


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## WRXGuy (Feb 20, 2002)

Anyone who thinks that owning a car is an asset, think again. It's more of a depreciating liability. Those of us that do lease do it for a variety of reasons... But to assume we can't afford to purchase a car outright is wrong.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> At *$600/mo for a rental* in these situations, I would venture thats a bad financial move for a lot of people. But thats the price people pay to drive a car they can't afford to impress people they dont even know, the entire reason the A3/CLA exist.


BANGO! That's exactly the point I was trying to make.

If your company gives you a car in the form of a $xxx/mo write-off or payment that cannot be applied elsewhere (ergo, you have a $600 car allowance, but you cannot lease a $300 car and pocket $300), you can be absolutely certain I'd be leasing the most car I could be leasing for the money. I don't think it's unreasonable to guess that a $600 allowance to service just the lease payment isn't that common.

I have a "free" $8,000 down payment in my GLI on the A3. Had I returned it at lease end in 2009 and leased another car, I'd have zero. I'd have leased another car that would have been about the same monthly cost as what it took to pay off my GLI, so I'm net positive at this point. Now I'll be able to buy an S3 (with additional money down above $8,000, mind you) for a monthly payment similar to what some of you will be paying for an A3 lease.

Leasing has its purpose, and I may again be at a point in my life, sometime in the future, where it's the better option. Should that be the case, I still don't believe it'll ever be the better option at $600+ per month. If I'm paying that much- out of my own pocket- I'm going to own it. Otherwise, I'll lease something with a cheap lease and put the money somewhere it matters.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Dan Halen said:


> BANGO! That's exactly the point I was trying to make.
> 
> Leasing has its purpose, and I may again be at a point in my life, sometime in the future, where it's the better option. Should that be the case, I still don't believe it'll ever be the better option at $600+ per month. If I'm paying that much- out of my own pocket- I'm going to own it. Otherwise, I'll lease something with a cheap lease and put the money somewhere it matters.


Not trying to argue with you, I understand your point. But if someone, not you, only wants to keep a car for 3 years and then get rid of it, the $600 per month for a lease on a $50K car comes out to what, $22K or so using simple math and no PV or anything? If you buy the car and pay cash for it, no financing to keep it simple, it's gotta be worth more than $30K when selling in three years for the math to benefit the buyer vs the leaser. The longer you hold the car the more the equation tips in favor of the buyer, but that's my whole point.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BEM10001 said:


> Not trying to argue with you, I understand your point. But if someone, not you, only wants to keep a car for 3 years and then get rid of it, the $600 per month for a lease on a $50K car comes out to what, $22K or so using simple math and no PV or anything? If you buy the car and pay cash for it, no financing to keep it simple, it's gotta be worth more than $30K when selling in three years for the math to benefit the buyer vs the leaser. The longer you hold the car the more the equation tips in favor of the buyer, but that's my whole point.


Yep. I think we're actually in agreement on this. It's not that I think $600/mo on $48,000 for a lease payment is any less "fair" than $300/mo on $24,000; rather, my personal threshold would not permit me to sign on for the former. I absolutely understand why it works for some people. It's just not for me. As the monthly spend goes up, I'm much less inclined to justify the outlay for something I won't own.

I'd be no different with a house. I may spend $2,500/mo toward ownership, but I'm not going to rent for $2,500/mo. One could argue that a house is actually an appreciating asset, but I'm not a willing buyer on the sale of that bill of goods. Not yet/ again, at least.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Dan Halen said:


> Yep. I think we're actually in agreement on this. It's not that I think $600/mo on $48,000 for a lease payment is any less "fair" than $300/mo on $24,000; rather, my personal threshold would not permit me to sign on for the former. I absolutely understand why it works for some people. It's just not for me. As the monthly spend goes up, I'm much less inclined to justify the outlay for something I won't own.
> 
> I'd be no different with a house. I may spend $2,500/mo toward ownership, but I'm not going to rent for $2,500/mo. One could argue that a house is actually an appreciating asset, but I'm not a willing buyer on the sale of that bill of goods. Not yet/ again, at least.


Right, so knowing if I buy a car I will 100% sell it in 3 years if not sooner, all I am doing by leasing is locking in a "sale price" or capping my total out of pocket for the time period. Sure, sometimes you come out a little ahead, sometimes not. But the math isn't crazy off one way or another. And knowing that you always take a discount selling a used car below full retail, the numbers don't heavily favor one option versus another. 

The big difference with your house example is that, theoretically at least, the house should appreciate. Aside from some VERY specific and rare cars that have come out in the past few years, Land Rover Defender, BMW 1M, etc. I'd guess that less than 1% of all cars sold in the U.S. appreciate in the first 5 years of ownership.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

ChrisFu said:


> These manufacturers love people like that, since they sell the 3 year old CPO far above residual.
> 
> Leasing seems like a good idea becuse it perpetually kicks the can down the road. But you've got no equity at any given instant.
> 
> At $600/mo for a rental in these situations, I would venture thats a bad financial move for a lot of people. But thats the price people pay to drive a car they can't afford to impress people they dont even know, the entire reason the A3/CLA exist.


A lot of Audi's are purchased and leased as part of a bad financial move and I don't see it being limited to the less expensive models or leases. I also can't see any Audi being part of making the best financial move. Once you're past that you are deciding what you want, how long you plan on keeping it, and figuring out how you want to pay for it. 

Even as a buy and hold car owner I can agree that if you are planning on switching cars every 3 years then leasing might make sense for you. Same situation applies to renting your house instead of buying. You want to move relatively soon then you also don't want to buy a house.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Man this thread got taken far too personally.

You pro-lease guys are fooling yourselves if you believe the VAST majority of leasees are not leasing for the sole purpose of being able to afford the monthly payment on a car they could not otherwise finance or outright purchase. 

Just because I was calling that out doesnt me I am presuming to say you personally couldnt afford anything. :facepalm:

And for the record I am 100% with Dan when he says "As the monthly spend goes up, I'm much less inclined to justify the outlay for something I won't own."


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Saying that the vast majority of leases are by people that can't afford to buy and then acting surprised when people that lease reply. :facepalm:

Again, I am a buy and hold so not offending me.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

If you don't want things taken personally don't quote people and say "people like that." It's not complicated. 

The fact that you are ignoring is that people on this and other forums are far more astute than average buyers/leasers. Simply asking the question "is this a good deal?" means the guy who originally posted the question has 99% more on the ball than people signing leases every day.

I still fail to see the difference between making $20K in lease payments versus buying a car for $50K and selling it 3 years later for $30K, maybe I missed that day in finance class when I was at Wharton.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BEM10001 said:


> If you don't want things taken personally don't quote people and say "people like that." It's not complicated.
> 
> *The fact that you are ignoring is that people on this and other forums are far more astute than average buyers/leasers. Simply asking the question "is this a good deal?" means the guy who originally posted the question has 99% more on the ball than people signing leases every day.*
> 
> I still fail to see the difference between making $20K in lease payments versus buying a car for $50K and selling it 3 years later for $30K, maybe I missed that day in finance class when I was at Wharton.


Man, that's got to be even more absolute than death and taxes, quite frankly. 

I apologize for my marginal contributions to the furthering of this derailment; that said, let's try to keep this one at least somewhat useful for it's intended purpose. :thumbup:


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## Professor Gascan (Sep 11, 2002)

You know how to know when someone doesn't understand a lease? When they compare it to renting.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

BEM10001 said:


> I still fail to see the difference between making $20K in lease payments versus buying a car for $50K and selling it 3 years later for $30K, maybe I missed that day in finance class when I was at Wharton.


In many states the person who bought would pay more tax. They would also have less available capital.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

outshined said:


> In many states the person who bought would pay more tax. They would also have less available capital.


Absolutely true. Bottom line, driving any car is a money losing situation. Just depends on how you want to lose your money. 

The benefit to this convo in my opinion, rather than telling someone to lease or buy, is to try and help folks understand if they're getting a good deal or bad deal regardless. You want to lease, great. But understand exactly what you are agreeing to, how it compares to other deals, etc. Is your money factor out of whack? Cap cost reductions a bad idea versus multiple security deposits? Are Audi programs competitive with BMW, MB, etc? You want an S3, awesome, but there is value to understanding that you're getting the same amount of car $-wise for $4K more over the life of the lease compared to something else when you factor in all the math behind the lease. Do you like an S3 better than an M235? Maybe. Do you like it $4K better? Maybe not.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

BEM10001 said:


> Absolutely true. Bottom line, driving any car is a money losing situation. Just depends on how you want to lose your money.
> 
> The benefit to this convo in my opinion, rather than telling someone to lease or buy, is to try and help folks understand if they're getting a good deal or bad deal regardless. You want to lease, great. But understand exactly what you are agreeing to, how it compares to other deals, etc. Is your money factor out of whack? Cap cost reductions a bad idea versus multiple security deposits? Are Audi programs competitive with BMW, MB, etc? You want an S3, awesome, but there is value to understanding that you're getting the same amount of car $-wise for $4K more over the life of the lease compared to something else when you factor in all the math behind the lease. Do you like an S3 better than an M235? Maybe. Do you like it $4K better? Maybe not.


Yep, well put.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

BEM10001 said:


> If you don't want things taken personally don't quote people and say "people like that." It's not complicated


It must be more complicated for you to get offended! I referred to "people like that" in response to your example proverbial guy you referred to as "one":



> If one's desire is to have a new car every three years, never drive a car out of warranty, and generally enjoy hassle free driving, there's a lot of upside.


I dont see how its even debatable that dealers love leasees who return the cars after 3 years. They get huge margin on those CPO lease returns. So of course they love "people like that"


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

ChrisFu said:


> It must be more complicated for you to get offended! I referred to "people like that" in response to your example proverbial guy you referred to as "one":
> 
> 
> 
> I dont see how its even debatable that dealers love leasees who return the cars after 3 years. They get huge margin on those CPO lease returns. So of course they love "people like that"


You're obviously not intelligent enough to grasp my point so I'm done wasting my breath, got better things to do with my time.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Righto!










Dan, this thread needs some cleanup. Probably back to post 50.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

ChrisFu said:


> Righto!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. Hey, there may be hope for you. At least you bought an S-Line instead of pretending you could afford an S and leasing it!


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

Do people who don't understand leasing make poor lease decisions? Absolutely. But that doesn't negate the advantages for people who understand leasing.


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## analytics51 (Feb 22, 2014)

*No lease for me.......*



outshined said:


> Do people who don't understand leasing make poor lease decisions? Absolutely. But that doesn't negate the advantages for people who understand leasing.


For what its worth, I decided to buy the car. I'm just totally unwilling to spend $660/Month for a lease and think AFS will have to wise up if they want to gain any market share. It is the worst MF I've ever seen on a car. ps-I'm going to love my A3 2.0 with all its silly S-line badges etc etc.:heart:


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

Wow, this thread sure got off track...

I can see the arguments for both a lease and purchase. Despite what I feel about the unreasonable money factor, I'm still going to lease. I have my name on a Black Premium A3 2.0TQ that should be available next week sometime. I'll pay the up-front fees + sales tax and have a payment in the $425/month range. I figured my ACNA discount offsets the higher money factor at least a little bit. I had a big chunk of money set aside for a down payment, but decided to keep that for other family needs (wife going back to school). On the downside I won't have any equity after 36 months, and will have to get something new with another monthly payment. On the upside I will avoid any big repair expenses down the line, have a car that is always under warranty, and get to enjoy another new car in 36 months.

It's different situations for everyone, but I couldn't be more excited to start driving my new A3 very soon!


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

conlson said:


> Wow, this thread sure got off track...
> 
> I can see the arguments for both a lease and purchase. Despite what I feel about the unreasonable money factor, I'm still going to lease. I have my name on a Black Premium A3 2.0TQ that should be available next week sometime. I'll pay the up-front fees + sales tax and have a payment in the $425/month range. I figured my ACNA discount offsets the higher money factor at least a little bit. I had a big chunk of money set aside for a down payment, but decided to keep that for other family needs (wife going back to school). On the downside I won't have any equity after 36 months, and will have to get something new with another monthly payment. On the upside I will avoid any big repair expenses down the line, have a car that is always under warranty, and get to enjoy another new car in 36 months.
> 
> It's different situations for everyone, but I couldn't be more excited to start driving my new A3 very soon!


If you mean down payment on the lease you are very wise to have saved your money. If something happens to car as you drive it off the lot, Audi is covered and will be made whole. You will not. That's why the multiple security deposit is a better way to go, granted dollar for dollar it doesn't reduce your payment as much but you get it all back at the end, even if "the end" is 48 hours later when the car is totaled.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

I think I am going to let the Hype cool off and see what a used A3 sedan will go for. If Audi is giving 58% residual factor on the car then WHOA!!!!! Getting a used one cheap is a good possibility


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## Nortdort (Mar 6, 2013)

It seems any time leasing gets brought up in forums it immediately gets turned into the proverbial "Why do you want to rent a car?" argument. 

Its not renting simple as that. You are paying a fixed, predetermined, amount for the deprecation of the car. Thus if the car deprecates less than expected you have equity in your car, if it deprecates more than expected, you walk away and you don't have to pay.

Leasing is usually less expensive than purchasing a car thus allowing you to invest the difference in whatever fashion you choose. (As an example from BMWs M235i configure tool,Finance 60mo @ 2% financing = $807/mo, leasing (after tax of 8% for 36 mo w/12k mi/yr) = $656/mo which amounts to $5440 available capital for investments of the 36 mo period)

Leasing is a valid choice for numerous reasons so is purchasing you just need to look at how long you plan on keeping your car and if you have investments or not. 



*That being said the lease rates for the A3 are terrible. Once it comes back down to earth it will be a viable option. *


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Nortdort said:


> It seems any time leasing gets brought up in forums it immediately gets turned into the proverbial "Why do you want to rent a car?" argument.
> 
> Its not renting simple as that. You are paying a fixed, predetermined, amount for the deprecation of the car. Thus if the car deprecates less than expected you have equity in your car, if it deprecates more than expected, you walk away and you don't have to pay.
> 
> ...


Right so using that example, if you were to buy a BMW and only plan to keep it for three years (yes people do get new cars every three years, I am one of them) the value in 3 years would have to be $5K north of the residual value for it to make more financial sense to buy and sell at the end of 36 months. That's the only point I was trying to make.


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

Edmunds is reporting the following money factor and residual for the 2015 A3

http://answers.edmunds.com/question...l-when-leasing-an-Audi-A3-Premium-183583.aspx

2015 model: 36mo, 15K/yr
FWD 1.8T: .00148 MF and 58% residual.
Quattro 2.0T: .00152 MF and 60% residual.

That's quite a bit lower MF than being quoted at my local dealer. What gives? Can any of our Audi sales people confirm or deny the Edmunds numbers?


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## BandwidthExceeded (Mar 10, 2014)

conlson said:


> That's quite a bit lower MF than being quoted at my local dealer. What gives?


I think it has a lot to do with the followup answer from the same person"



> Yes.. the money factor quoted is for top tier credit. It's the best you can get. Beware of dealers marking up the money factor for extra profit. This is a very common occurence with luxury makes.


Between people maybe not having PERFECT credit, and dealerships looking to squeeze that profit stone on the first sales of a new car, that may be where a chunk of that difference is coming from.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

conlson said:


> Edmunds is reporting the following money factor and residual for the 2015 A3
> 
> http://answers.edmunds.com/question...l-when-leasing-an-Audi-A3-Premium-183583.aspx
> 
> ...



all dealerships are allowed to mark up rates and money factors to a certain extent. for APR its only 1% on a new car, and for the MF on leases, in Audi's case it is .00065. As a business that is how a profit can be made on the back end of a deal. It's very common among all banks, not just the auto industry or Audi.


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## conlson (Aug 7, 2013)

ProjectA3 said:


> all dealerships are allowed to mark up rates and money factors to a certain extent. for APR its only 1% on a new car, and for the MF on leases, in Audi's case it is .00065. As a business that is how a profit can be made on the back end of a deal. It's very common among all banks, not just the auto industry or Audi.


Thanks for the response. I'm still wondering if the .00152 money factor being reported on the Edmunds site is accurate. Is that the number your dealership is using?


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

I confirmed .00152 at my dealership. They're just one part of a giant family of dealerships, so they have a fairly standard markup that they have difficulty changing individually, but he was willing to work with me to discount MSRP to be comparable, or at least closer, to getting .00152


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

The A3 is now available in AUDIUSA's payment calculator. The fine print says destination is not included in MSRP for calculations. However, the actual amount financed shown in the calculator does appear to include destination. I haven't done the math with any of the reported residuals, but at a quick glance it appears the calculator may indeed be using .00152 for MF.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

Based on the current AUDIUSA calculator and 6% Audi Supplier Discount:

2.0 Premium MSRP $33720
10k miles/36 months
$370/month with $1575 total due at signing

2.0 Premium Plus MSRP $36620
10k miles/36 months
$431/month with $1690 total due at signing

2.0 Prestige MSRP $42520
10k miles/36 months
$523/month with $1893 total due at signing

*Calculations do not include tax/title*


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## hockeymutt (Mar 10, 2014)

outshined said:


> Based on the current AUDIUSA calculator and 6% Audi Supplier Discount:
> 
> 2.0 Premium MSRP $33720
> 10k miles/36 months
> ...


that is horrible!!! think about all the cars in those price ranges... you get a lot more for the money... think ill just lease the 4 door gti loaded for 360 a month with tax... will be the same exact car minus 4 circles in the grille


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

While it's probably equal or more value for the spent dollar, no, it's not the “exact same car," especially if you were pining for the 2.0TQ A3. I realize those figures look like crap, but let's not get overzealous.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

hockeymutt said:


> that is horrible!!! think about all the cars in those price ranges... you get a lot more for the money... think ill just lease the 4 door gti loaded for 360 a month with tax... will be the same exact car minus 4 circles in the grille


If you think the GTI is the exact same car then you're right it would be insane to get the Audi. This has also already been discussed and/or you should start another thread if you are trying to figure out what is different between the two.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

If those numbers outshined posted are correct....you gotta be ****ting me...


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

according to my AoA contact, no planned changes to the A3 lease rates are expected when they go on sale tomorrow.

I'm not really happy that my $44k MSRp car will cost me $10 more a month than my $50k MSRP allroad, instead of about $60 a month less. But i've got so much planned for this A3 (that i can't speak about) that I will ultimately have to go with the lease when the car comes in.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

ProjectA3 said:


> according to my AoA contact, no planned changes to the A3 lease rates are expected when they go on sale tomorrow.
> 
> I'm not really happy that my $44k MSRp car will cost me $10 more a month than my $50k MSRP allroad, instead of about $60 a month less. But i've got so much planned for this A3 (that i can't speak about) that I will ultimately have to go with the lease when the car comes in.


How many Prestige cars is your dealership getting? Yeah Audi needs to work on those rates if they have a shot to catch up to the CLA.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

On cars.com and Autotrader we seeing posted prices now not just call for price


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

livestrong191 said:


> On cars.com and Autotrader we seeing posted prices now not just call for price


Yeah, I've seen prices for over a week now on cars.com. The top end is $40,040 right now- or it was this AM.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dan Halen said:


> Yeah, I've seen prices for over a week now on cars.com. The top end is $40,040 right now- or it was this AM.



Today was the first day I saw dealers on there physical sights put actual prices on too instead of call for price


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

caliatenza said:


> How many Prestige cars is your dealership getting? Yeah Audi needs to work on those rates if they have a shot to catch up to the CLA.


Mine is the only Prestige package car.

in the entire Western US, for quattro Prestige, there are only about 60 total cars in the order system with the Prestige package but thats only 2.0t and quattro.

there are only 7 1.8T Prestige cars on order in the same region. so less than 70 cars total it looks like.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

ProjectA3 said:


> Mine is the only Prestige package car.
> 
> in the entire Western US, for quattro Prestige, there are only about 60 total cars in the order system with the Prestige package but thats only 2.0t and quattro.
> 
> there are only 7 1.8T Prestige cars on order in the same region. so less than 70 cars total it looks like.


oh wow, yeah 60 doesn't seem like a lot . Hopefully there will be more cars in the inventory as the year rolls on....


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

caliatenza said:


> oh wow, yeah 60 doesn't seem like a lot . Hopefully there will be more cars in the inventory as the year rolls on....


from my 11 years experience selling Audi's. If you want a Prestige package car, dont plan on the dealer just having one. Order what you want and wait the 4 months for it.
Prestige package cars are rarely ordered for inventory on any of the model lines with A6/A7 being the most likely and A4/A5/Q5 ranges being least likely.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

ProjectA3 said:


> from my 11 years experience selling Audi's. If you want a Prestige package car, dont plan on the dealer just having one. Order what you want and wait the 4 months for it.
> Prestige package cars are rarely ordered for inventory on any of the model lines with A6/A7 being the most likely and A4/A5/Q5 ranges being least likely.


+1 - my dealership has said the same thing to me. They almost never carry prestige trim cars on the lower end.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

ProjectA3 said:


> from my 11 years experience selling Audi's. If you want a Prestige package car, dont plan on the dealer just having one. Order what you want and wait the 4 months for it.
> Prestige package cars are rarely ordered for inventory on any of the model lines with A6/A7 being the most likely and A4/A5/Q5 ranges being least likely.


ah man ; ordering could suck cause you wont get the good discount like on a car that's already on the lot. I do know in Socal that i've seen more prestige cars in general though.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

caliatenza said:


> ah man ; ordering could suck cause you wont get the good discount like on a car that's already on the lot. I do know in Socal that i've seen more prestige cars in general though.


order a car through me and i'll get you a good price to come to Phoenix, AZ to buy it. its only a few hour drive. I've had many people from these forums purchase cars through me in the past. Especially when the 2006 A3 came out.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

ProjectA3 said:


> from my 11 years experience selling Audi's. If you want a Prestige package car, dont plan on the dealer just having one. Order what you want and wait the 4 months for it.
> Prestige package cars are rarely ordered for inventory on any of the model lines with A6/A7 being the most likely and A4/A5/Q5 ranges being least likely.


This makes a lot of sense, for a while I was considering a used A4 and when looking at Autotrader very few of them were Prestige cars.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

ProjectA3 said:


> order a car through me and i'll get you a good price to come to Phoenix, AZ to buy it. its only a few hour drive. I've had many people from these forums purchase cars through me in the past. Especially when the 2006 A3 came out.


yeah Phoenix is a little too far for me, sorry .


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

dmorrow said:


> This makes a lot of sense, for a while I was considering a used A4 and when looking at Autotrader very few of them were Prestige cars.


Well Audi Pacific down in Torrance, CA...has one Prestige A3 2.0T in stock...and it has the sport package. I'm guessing more will trickle in as the year rolls on.


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