# Testdrove an EOS Yesterday.....



## Shark01 (Mar 30, 2008)

Drove my first VW of any kind yesterday, a base model EOS. First of all, I really only drive manual transmission cars. They fun factor increases by about 10, any car is better as a manual. 
I live in the 4th largest city in the country (Houston, Tx). We have 5 dealers. I had to wait two months to get a test drive in the ONLY manual car in the city. I think thats just nuts, is sourcing a MT car that hard around the US?
Had a great drive. The driving dynamics of the car are really quite good (my other car is a Porsche twin-turbo making 430 hp so thats really a complement). Bland (utilitarian) exterior, nice interior which is OK. Only a couple of disappointments:
1. The seats - this was the base version so there just weren't enough adjustments. Sat in a power seat automatic later so that issue would go away with the komfort pkg
2. Turbo was really laggy - Does anyone know if the aftermarket tuning software lowers the rpm threshold for opening the turbos?
I think this is the best and most versitile $30k car out there. Unfortunately, I wanted to get out for $25k (baby on the way). So maybe a used '07 is the way to go......


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## superjohn (May 11, 2005)

if you could find a used 2007 with manual


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## ashbinder (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: Testdrove an EOS Yesterday..... (Shark01)*

Aftermarket software increases torque throughout the RPM range, but doesn't change lag (I tried the Revo software). The increase in lower end torque make it a bit easier to get into traffic, but once the boost kicked in at around 2K RPM, you'd get a surge of power.


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## jwhcars (Apr 20, 2005)

I guess if you want lots of power and the availability to haul people you could get a Cayenne S.







On the other hand you could chip the EOS. If you do a search on the mark V forum Snowboarderx216 posted his dyno results on his GTI -it has the same engine as the EOS.


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## ridgebacks (Nov 29, 2007)

*Re: Testdrove an EOS Yesterday..... (Shark01)*

<<I think thats just nuts, is sourcing a MT car that hard around the US?>>
yup. I had to have mine delivered from VA (to NJ) in order to get the manual. my fiance couldnt understand why I wouldnt settle for an automatic. it was a deal breaker for me. it had to be a stick or I didnt want it. 
Liz


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## Robbo42 (Apr 25, 2005)

*Re: Testdrove an EOS Yesterday..... (ridgebacks)*

I really lucked out getting a manual 08, cause one of the dealers in town had one just off the boat. I snapped it up!
Like you, the manual was a deal breaker.
Good Luck.


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## blue4max (Feb 17, 2008)

I can understand the stick being a deal breaker. Most of my life I felt the same way and if the Eos Lux had a stick option, I certainly would have thought about it. However, after driving my "auto stick" for 5 months now, I have to say that "it's for me."
The main problem I see for the stick is that it is only available on the 2 lower models (Turbo and Comfort.) The dealer I bought my Lux from only had a 1 or 2 of these models and around 10 Lux and 3.2 models to choose from. I don't remember if the 2 lower model vehicles had sticks or not.
So, if you want a stick only, probably the best way to get one is to spec order it from scratch. That is the only way you're going to be able to "trick" it out with options such as leather seats, sat radio, etc. I suspect almost any stick model you find on a dealer's lot will be a plain jane and certainly not the "right" color you want unless you're extremely lucky.


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## Shark01 (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: (blue4max)*

The lower trim level is fine, the issue is I wanted to avoid paying $30k. The primary car I'm comparing it with (2006 Mustang GT) can be had used for $23-24k so I wanted to stay in that area.
Of course each car has its plusses and minuses. At the same price, I'd take the EOS because its just a more complete design. At a $7k difference though......


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: (Shark01)*

We had that same issue when we were shopping for a car. I wanted a Mustang convertible and my wife did not want a cloth top. Because we live in a large city where cloth tops are an open invitation to vandals, we settled on the Eos. C70 was nice but way more expensive. Finding an Eos with a stick is difficult especially used. The Eos came to the US as an 07 so prices are still high as used. Good luck with whatever you decide on.


_Modified by cb391 at 11:54 AM 4-1-2008_


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## jjoerugged (Jun 26, 2007)

*Re: Testdrove an EOS Yesterday..... (Shark01)*

The manual was a deal breaker for me too. I test drove DSG and though to was gimmicky (a fun gimmick) but I'm old school, I like using my feet. I had to special order mine as well, for the same reason. The dealer only had fully loaded DSGs all over $40K. I really like my car. You be happy it.
Adam


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Turbo lag? Are you kidding?*

How/where does the turbo lag? I think its just not a "torquey" as one may expect.
When I went from the 1.8T to the 2.0T I was disappointed by the lack of oomph. Then I realized that its the onset of torque I was missing. The 2.0T feels like it comes on around 3,000 RPM but that has nothing to do with the turbo coming in. Its simply the torque curve.
Cheers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *Shark01* »_Drove my first VW of any kind yesterday, a base model EOS. 
2. Turbo was really laggy - Does anyone know if the aftermarket tuning software lowers the rpm threshold for opening the turbos?
I think this is the best and most versitile $30k car out there. Unfortunately, I wanted to get out for $25k (baby on the way). So maybe a used '07 is the way to go......


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Testdrove an EOS Yesterday..... (Shark01)*

I tested tuning at one time, and I think it really made a big difference.
Finding a MT is very hard. I love driving mine, but it is the only MT Eos I have seen at my local dealers.
The only issue I have is that it was apparently "impossible" to add options as a special order. At the time I got mine, they wouldn't even put on splashguards/mudflaps as an option, nor PDC (Park Distance Control), but they now allow those options even on the base model. The splashguards are available from the dealership, but it costs a lot more to pay them to do it afterward vs. as an upfront option.
I would have taken a lot of the technology options, but VWoA want to keep the options as packages which can *only* be had as a set, and some only on the upper models.
I have a suspicion that they only produced a limited number of the base model, so that they could list a low "Starting at" price. Still a very nice car, but you probably won't be able to get the fancy stereo without leather seats and DSG transmission.








William


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## Shark01 (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Turbo lag? Are you kidding? (liquid stereo)*

All turbos have some lag of course, you put your foot down and at some point after, it comes up on boost. On this car (as opposed to my Porsche twin-turbo) the lag was very pronounced. Remember, the turbo drives the shape and amplitude of the torque curve...which is why they are effective.
In the Porsche, it won't come up on boost until around 3000 rpm at cruising gears. If you have aggressive programing, that reduces to 2,500 rpm. Its a significant difference because if you are in 6th gear cruising at 2,400 rpms (about 70 mph), it takes time to get to 3000 (of course assuming you don't downshift, but sometimes you don't feel like driving that aggressively, you'd rather just sample the boost bong in 6th)
I don't care about stereo upgrades....thats why they have Best Buy








No what DID alarm me this morning was the Consumer Report used car review that listed EVERY VW in the line (except for the Bug) in the WORST OF THE WORST category.......the EOS being too new to be coun'ted but still it was horrifying


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## ashbinder (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: Turbo lag? Are you kidding? (Shark01)*

Ironic how VW's generally have high resale value. lol...goes to show you it's based on perception, not reality.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Turbo lag? Are you kidding? (Shark01)*

Of course all turbos have lag unless there's boost at idle. Torque onset and turbo lag are not the same. I'd like to see one review that mentions turbo lag, other than the near absence, with regard to the 2.0T. That's the beauty of the small, low-boost turbo.
I'm not saying that there isn't a power/torque curve but it has little/nothing to do with turbo-lag. I should say that I'm speaking relatively here. I.e. Maybe in comparison to a twin, sequentially (not symmetrically) charged Porsche there is lag, but I'd like to know of any turbo charged engine, Porsche or not, that has some a turbo operating right off idle.
*Road and Track * 
A full 200 bhp is available, by way of a direct-injected turbocharged 2.0-liter 16-valve inline-4, an evolution of the port-injected 20-valve 1.8 T (the injector nozzle takes up some combustion-chamber real estate and precludes that fifth valve). The result is buckets of virtually lag-free torque (207 lb.-ft. from as low as 1800 rpm), channeled through a 6-speed whose precise, low-effort linkage is a joy to use.
*Car and Driver * 
The cooling effect of directly injecting fuel into the combustion chamber lets VW get away with a high—for a turbocharged engine—compression ratio of 10.3:1. And running that high compression ratio keeps the engine making decent power in those rare moments when the turbocharger is snoozing. It's never sleeping for long, though, as the torque peak of 207 pound-feet is reached at just 1800 rpm. Compared with the previous-generation GLI's 180-hp, 1.8-liter four-cylinder, the added displacement and higher compression ratio of the new engine virtually eliminate the minor turbo lag that gave the 1.8-liter a rubber-band-like power delivery—just a small delay between hitting the pedal and getting the power. It didn't really bother us until we sampled the new engine, which responds immediately and linearly.
Cheers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *Shark01* »_All turbos have some lag of course, you put your foot down and at some point after, it comes up on boost. On this car (as opposed to my Porsche twin-turbo) the lag was very pronounced. Remember, the turbo drives the shape and amplitude of the torque curve...which is why they are effective.
In the Porsche, it won't come up on boost until around 3000 rpm at cruising gears. If you have aggressive programing, that reduces to 2,500 rpm. Its a significant difference because if you are in 6th gear cruising at 2,400 rpms (about 70 mph), it takes time to get to 3000 (of course assuming you don't downshift, but sometimes you don't feel like driving that aggressively, you'd rather just sample the boost bong in 6th)
I don't care about stereo upgrades....thats why they have Best Buy








No what DID alarm me this morning was the Consumer Report used car review that listed EVERY VW in the line (except for the Bug) in the WORST OF THE WORST category.......the EOS being too new to be coun'ted but still it was horrifying


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## Shark01 (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Turbo lag? Are you kidding? (liquid stereo)*

Yes, no turbo works at idle because they use exhaust gasses. Despite what the two posted reviews say, the lag was greater than I'm used to and was wondering if the software commercially available brought the turbos up on boost sooner.
Question for you, what turbo brand do these use, and what IS the boost level at full accel in say 4th gear? If there is a boost display, I missed it on the test drive.
Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with the car and have $25k burning in my pocket for the right one. The reviews have all been very positive.


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Turbo lag? Are you kidding? (Shark01)*

I don't know what brand of turbocharger is used in the 2.0T but there may be some information in the 2.0T FSI forum. Also, there's no boost gauge in the 2.0T. I don't know if VW has ever put on in a gasoline car.
As for the chips and such, I think that they simply increase the boost as opposed to reprogramming where/when it comes in. I must admit I'm not sure though.











_Quote, originally posted by *Shark01* »_Yes, no turbo works at idle because they use exhaust gasses. Despite what the two posted reviews say, the lag was greater than I'm used to and was wondering if the software commercially available brought the turbos up on boost sooner.
Question for you, what turbo brand do these use, and what IS the boost level at full accel in say 4th gear? If there is a boost display, I missed it on the test drive.
Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with the car and have $25k burning in my pocket for the right one. The reviews have all been very positive.


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Turbo lag? Are you kidding? (Shark01)*

my opinion is that Yes, tuning reduces perception of lag at least
When I tested a Eos with the tuning, I got the impression of a smoother ramp up to higher power, and also a quicker onset of that extra power
Now it may be because of recurving the torque some other way, but the net effect was that I didn't feel that lag-- the engine performed more like my wife's 6-cyl Passat. My wife didn't want to test it, and then was so surprised at the difference that she said that I _was right_ and _thanked me for forcing her to test it_
Other unexpected bills are the main reason we aren't driving tuned now.
Oh, there is not a natural boost display in the Eos, although some add one, BUT I _think_ you can get that reading through the diagnostic mode on the Climatronic.
If you press "ECON" and the vent-up button together, Climatronic displays certain readings. The displays go to zero, turning the left know changes the first 2 digits of left display, and the middle changes the 3rd digit (for sub-groups). These select the data displayed on the right display.
There was a thread here, or in the Technical forum-- I have been sometimes monitoring 19.1, which is actual speed in MPH, but there are temp readings etc too.
_edit: LOTS of threads in Technical forums, each with partial list of codes
Here is a full list, poorly translated from Italian: http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/5475/287576.aspx#287576
and I found this partial list:_

_Quote, originally posted by *from a post by cb1111* »_
Pressing the ECON button (under the AUTO button) and the far right top air distribution button puts the display into diagnostics mode.
* 1.0 : Temp as read by sensor in middle fan speed knob
* 1.4 : light intesity falling on same sensor
* 4.0 : Outside temp - front bumper
* 4.1 : Outside temp - roof
* 4.2 : Outside temp - rear bumper (inside temp?)
* 15.0 : Oil temp
* 19.0 : Uncorrected speed (Kmh)
* 19.1 : Uncorrected speed (Mph)
* 19.2 : Coolant temp
* 19.3 : Tachometer
* 19.4 : Presumeably oilpressure
* 25.0 : Voltage

_*note: some older lists are out of date, i.e. from 2002,2003,2005. refer to recent lists*_
William


_Modified by kghia at 1:36 PM 4-2-2008_


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## Shark01 (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Turbo lag? Are you kidding? (liquid stereo)*

Thanks for the graph LS. it suggests you are on boost by 2500 rpm, which from my 15 minute drive is less than what I was feeling, so I'd say it does decrease lag. And I bet 250 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque really makes an EOS a fun drive.......
Anything else new buyers should know? I've read about the roof lubrication issue.


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## gizmopop (Feb 6, 2000)

*Re: Turbo lag? Are you kidding? (Shark01)*

The turbo is a KO3 (it may be a KO3 sport as those have been in use in the 180 hp 1.8t 4 cylinder)


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## TDI_Dunc (Oct 16, 2000)

*Re: Testdrove an EOS Yesterday..... (jjoerugged)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jjoerugged* »_The manual was a deal breaker for me too. I test drove DSG and though to was gimmicky (a fun gimmick) but I'm old school, I like using my feet. I had to special order mine as well, for the same reason. The dealer only had fully loaded DSGs all over $40K. I really like my car. You be happy it.
Adam

So you special ordered it, and had what added to it? Can you spec a Komfort out w/ stick and any / all Lux options?
Dunc


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