# Late Model Beetle 2.0T Engines



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Simply a *ea888* reference point (<--link), since I've long wondered.


2019 Beetle = ea888 Gen 3B ("Budack") engine ( _174 hp_ )
2018 Beetle = ea888 Gen 3B
2017 Beetle = ea888 Gen 3 (*non*-Budack) engine ( _210 hp_ ) { only on the R-Line SEL }​
... all 2.0 turbos.​


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## ribbit (Jun 4, 2012)

Why would VW reduce the power of their engine by 25% on a discontinued model, very strange indeed.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

ribbit said:


> Why would VW reduce the power of their engine by 25% on a discontinued model, very strange indeed.




VW is committed to modular design, one chassis used as the foundation on many models for example. The *ea888 Gen3B* engine is in the Audi line (2 models I believe) and is in at least 3 VW models. I'm sure it's hidden in a few Porsche's as well. I believe the new complexity of the ECU map is a design protection to prevent the Porsche/Audi engine output from being put into lower grade models (_this means you, the 2019 Beetle_).

Then there is their hyper, virtue-signalling environmental stance after their TDI PR disaster.

None of this confirms why they did it, but these are known facts around the decision.​


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## ribbit (Jun 4, 2012)

Why worry about a product that is discontinued ,it's no threat to Audi or Porsche sales. Hell most people buying a Beetle could care lees about the engine performance.:laugh:


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Rather than duplicate writing/information; if you go *Here!*, and look under a posting I made on *08-20-2020* you will find some interesting data on where the Gen 3 2.0T came from (with some characteristics and compromises).

It's relevant to this thread, so wanted to link to it.

Thanks for visiting.
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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Found a way to drive the Gen 3 2.0T
(via a 2015 R-Line)

Transmission:The "knock" on the DSG, aside from rumored breakdown/maintenance issues, is that it causes the car to either lag or buck from a standing start. "Bill" (a very nice salesman) explained the key is that the unit is more a double automatic manual transmission -- automatic in the sense that the unit does the shifting, manual in the sense that it does act like a vehicle with a clutch. Hence, the brake pedal doubles as the clutch lever when the car is at rest. The way to drive the car is to release the brake, let the car glide forward for a moment, then stomp on the gas to your heart's content. This technique worked well and this car (an earlier variant in the Beetle DSG transmission) did not buck at all. I didn't stop on any hills, so I can't report on that.

The tightness of a physical clutch (versus the pneumatic auto) was evident, and it did appear to shift with more speed. Another nice touch on this model was that the paddle shifters were always active. On two paddle cars I've owned, you need to put the transmission in "semi-auto" mode before they can be used. On this car, touching the shifters at anytime put the transmission in manual mode (and down/upshifted as well). That's a nice feature. The shifters were more like entertainment center buttons: minimal force and minimal distance made the "contact" and the shirt resulted. The shirters would get more use from me in this configuration (though it is still not a huge factor).
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Engine:The engine unwound up the RPM line much faster than my 2019 Gen 3B{_izzaro_}, which in comparison feels like someone dumped 80 SAE weight motor oil in the crankcase. The 3B simply can not get out of its own way compared to the Gen 3. Free-er, more open, more responsive.

Delivered power mirrored the torque graphs of you know who. The R-Line 2.0T drove like it had two plateaus of torque: it was responsive from low in the band to about 3,300 RPMs (not fire breathing, but better than the 3B), and then around 3,300 you got a large boost of torque and *F-86* jet power.










Around 3,300 it was apparent you had crossed the first "Mach I" threshold of .062 Tq/Wt when the car can truly zoom. It was hard to get up there, though, and not my preferred driving style. The drive made me even more curious about a 1.8T that is tuned up to 290 wtq. Torque band a little too high for my tastes, little bit of throttle lag, but definitely Tim Taylor _power!_ pleasure.
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Dash Gauges:Though slightly off topic, the gauges manifested my thoughts about them: I was annoyed. I don't really need to see my oil temperature all the time -- surely there is another useful metric? The timer is like 30 height ratio tires: all spec and no practicallity. And the red digital clock (though I suppose a nice touch) just put another time of day location on the dash which would number 3. Annoying again. I did enjoy watching the boost -- got it up to 29 on one straffing run (above 4,500 RPMs). But, yunno, I would need to research that gauge to see its accuracy. After the whole TDI event, one can reasonably suspect that gauge might be designed primarily for effect. And it is the furthest from the driver (far right), and causes significant eye wandering from the road you are straffing on to glory in your boost. But ... yeah, 29 was cool.

The gauge location sits just under the bottomline of the windscreen. No visual obfuscation at all. The idea is cool, the location looks good at startup (perhaps designed for a fictional rally copilot?) but the actual driving implementation - alot like the Gen 3 2.0T from the 1.8T - left a lot to be desired. 

_Bonus points for 2 gauge replacements for the Oil Temperature and Clock_.
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Thanks for reading.
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## ThatBlueBeetle (May 13, 2018)

Happy you found an R line to test drive for comparison! Very interesting review, and I appreciate it. 

I will say, and this is just my two cents, that I believe (emphasis on "believe") the gauges atop the dash (specifically oil temp and turbo boost) are functional. My coolant temp will always stay dead on at 195 when driving and up to temp, but the oil gauge will respond to the environment more. Cold days, it'll barely crack 200. Hot days in bumper to bumper traffic for hours with the AC on, it'll creep up to around 220-230 degrees. As for the boost, it is in absolute pressure, so don't fooled by "29" psi of boost. The gauge reads in absolue pressure, so 0 psi of boost would show up as 15psi (1 atmosphere of pressure). This means your "29" psi was only 14psi of actual boost, and likely just a spike at that... unless that R Line had a tune, in which case, all bets are off. 

Looking forward to your take on a 1.8T Beetle! (Perhaps you'll find a Dune Edition Beetle to review?)


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

ThatBlueBeetle said:


> Happy you found an R line to test drive for comparison! Very interesting review, and I appreciate it.
> 
> I will say, and this is just my two cents, that I believe (emphasis on "believe") the gauges atop the dash (specifically oil temp and turbo boost) are functional. My coolant temp will always stay dead on at 195 when driving and up to temp, but the oil gauge will respond to the environment more. Cold days, it'll barely crack 200. Hot days in bumper to bumper traffic for hours with the AC on, it'll creep up to around 220-230 degrees. As for the boost, it is in absolute pressure, so don't fooled by "29" psi of boost. The gauge reads in absolue pressure, so 0 psi of boost would show up as 15psi (1 atmosphere of pressure). This means your "29" psi was only 14psi of actual boost, and likely just a spike at that... unless that R Line had a tune, in which case, all bets are off.
> 
> Looking forward to your take on a 1.8T Beetle! (Perhaps you'll find a Dune Edition Beetle to review?)​



A few things ...
1) all my reflections on the gauges were just my opinion, I didn't want nor intend to kill them for others.
2) I (personally) would not want the oil temperature screaming at me on a hot day, for it would drive me to some Rube Goldberg design to keep the engine cooler ... (like, running 0W-50 (fifty) in the summer). But again, I know that my response here is not of the norm.
3) Yes, I know the boost gauge is absolute, and nominal running should be around 15 (I guess that's a good way to self calibrate). I was just elated that on a gauge with a "zero" reading at 7 o'clock I was able to spin it out to around 2:30.

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I suppose you have a really cool tune (or upgraded turbo package) if you can blow out your boost gauge.

Thanks for your response and kind words.​​

















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## Jiachong (Jan 16, 2019)

I have a 2012 Turbo Beetle with the older TSI 2.0L and probably gets around 245 Hp and 280 lb/ft of Torque with my Unitronics Stage 1 ECU and DSG tunes.

My boost gauge has not blown up yet, but it does boost past 12:00 more often.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Jiachong said:


> I have a 2012 Turbo Beetle with the older TSI 2.0L and probably gets around 245 Hp and 280 lb/ft of Torque with my Unitronics Stage 1 ECU and DSG tunes.
> 
> My boost gauge has not blown up yet, but it does boost past 12:00 more often.


Thanks for the information.
I test drove a (different) 2014 R-Line over a year ago that was a loaner car to a salesman, and he said he had a very hard time getting his (stock) 2.0T to sit at 12:00. I didn't want to ask (for fear of showing interest and such), but my impression was that "past 12:00" was *The Great Beyond*. Glad to hear your tune experience falls in line with this.

Thanks for writing.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Performed a test drive of the Gen 3 1.8T
(via a 2017 SEL)

Preface:As this is both the SEL and the last application of the Gen 3 1.8T on the Beetle, I felt lucky to find this one and consider it _the *gold* standard_ of the 1.8T application.
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Random notes: I was also amused to see that the *Fender* sound system was upgraded between 2017 and 2019. The '19, when "off", displays a very sweet analog clock. The '17 (even the treasured SEL), does not have this feature. Missing it, the clock on that otherwise blank screen is a nice touch.
The '19 SE has foglights. The '17 SEL does not.
Made a small EQ adjustment in the '17 which made a huge difference for the subwoofer. Will try it on mine.
The fonting and presentation of the backup camera is different, and honestly, more "luxurious" on the '17.​

Transmission:Not much to say here. Transmission was tight and functional. It was certainly not as quick and chiropractic as the 2.0T/R-Line DSG, but it was responsive and in no way lacking.
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Engine:Two positive things stood out about the engine.
1)The 1.8T unwound easily (like my previous report on the Gen 3 2.0T (non-Budack)). Compared to my Gen 3B{_izzaro_}, I again felt that this engine had 0W10 oil in the crankcase while my 2019 was running with SAE 80 in there. When you asked the 1.8T for power, there was no hestitation, nor resistence to giving it.

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2)The (untuned) 1.8T definitely gave you a blast off effect. There was noticeably more power, and more power very low in the RPM band. When you were moving away from a Stop sign, and decided to boogie a little, just a little tap and away you went. You didn't need to find the power, it was already there, even at 1,800 rpms.

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Definite zoom factor at 2,200.
I took it for a drive and went to a nice highway on ramp, but the stars misaligned and what turned on to that ramp in front of me but a 18 wheeler hauling swine. Halfway down the ramp I saw a gap in the highway's traffic. I was already going about 40 miles per hour or so, semi-coasting behind a truck, not high RPMs at all. I again checked my left mirror, stepped on the gas, crossed the yellow diagonaled pavement and passed and flew. Unconsciously, it was the exact thing I want from my engine: in traffic, extra zoom to get past annoyances -- or just fly a little on the highway. The engine had that punch, and you didn't need to stomp through the floor board to get it. I'm not a high rev guy, so there was still plenty of zoom as I pushed up to around 3,800 RPMs.
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_Summing up:_More available torque than I've experienced in other platforms. Significantly more low torque. And the engine doesn't fight against itself to rev up. As I drove home in my 2019, I noticed how the Gen 3B doesn't really like to rev much past 3,000 - you really need to push (stomp) the engine to get it to move above that. No sensation of engine brattiness with the 1.8T. She likes and appreciates a light touch.
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*{*
Tires:Must add this. Of course the 2017 SEL (with less than 15,000 miles) still had the hated _Hankook Kynergy GT_ tires (235/45R18). Driving reaffirmed my decision to ditch these lazy tires. They only grab the road when they feel like it. They are a medicinal marijuana user making your bowl at Chipotle: doing a little work, spacing, doing a little more. I'll grab the road now, take a break, then grab again -- all while you're going around a single curve on a down hill slope. Beetles and understeer get a bad rap with those Kynergy's.​*}*
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Thanks for reading.
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## ThatBlueBeetle (May 13, 2018)

Ok, you've now got me curious to drive a 1.8T Beetle... or something else with a 1.8T. And maybe a manual. 

Thanks for the review.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

ThatBlueBeetle said:


> Ok, you've now got me curious to drive a 1.8T Beetle... or something else with a 1.8T. And maybe a manual.
> 
> Thanks for the review.





The more impressions the merrier. 
Thanks for your support. 

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