# [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build.......



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

If you guys were going to do an ultimate engine build, what parts would it consist of?
piston
rods
compression....etc


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_If you guys were going to do an ultimate engine build, what parts would it consist of?
piston
rods
compression....etc









Is it inappropriate for me to say C2 software








In an attempt to not derail this post....yet.....I would also like to know if we can include drivetrain/platform application? The only reason I ask is because if I list my ULTIMATE 2.5 motor, it needs to be accompanied with a different drivetrain.....
C2


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## the_humeister (Sep 25, 2008)

Mine would be a turbojet and intended for rear, top, or side-mounted configurations. There's nothing quite like melting the car behind you because it's tailgating.


_Modified by the_humeister at 5:16 PM 1-15-2009_


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
Is it inappropriate for me to say C2 software








In an attempt to not derail this post....yet.....I would also like to know if we can include drivetrain/platform application? The only reason I ask is because if I list my ULTIMATE 2.5 motor, it needs to be accompanied with a different drivetrain.....
C2

Good point http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What did you have in mind?
As far as c2 software, the current users running the software rate it as #1, thats a statistic I can't argue with. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I would love to test it in one on my applications in the near future.


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## AlBeezy36 (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (Audi4u)*

I like the idea of this thread, yet I have no input to add.
I'll just lurk around and see what the 2.5 gurus say


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_If you guys were going to do an ultimate engine build, what parts would it consist of?
piston
rods
compression....etc









Changing all that and more would be on my *ultimate *2.5 motor build no matter if I was going NA or FI. What are you looking for? We have seen that this motor responds well to FI but I feel it would make an equally great motor as a high revving NA monster if built for nothing more than the sound alone.

_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_Is it inappropriate for me to say C2 software









I know your software is highly rated and I am thinking about dumping my GIAC for it even, but for an ultimate build I would have to go with something like autronic.


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (spdfrek)*

Quoted from Llyod Plumtree from another topic 

_Quote, originally posted by *Lloyd Plumtree* »_
From my research to date the head flows extremely well. 7500+ rpm`s would be very easy on a stock casting without becoming a bottle neck point. The 2.5L engine shares it`s valve train with the 2L FSI motor. That being said springs, retainers, and keepers are all currently available. aka: valvetrain- CHECK
Now this is what I have come up with I currently have a quote for one set of custom cams that have been profiled for a stock head with upgraded valvetrain. Which would be considered street/strip or Hot street cam. 268*in and 276*ex but have a much higher lift then what you would find in a bucket follower cam. (cam over bucket). A rough retail number is no less then $1000 and no more then $1300. Please remember that these would require a upgraded valve train which will add to the price. I`m shooting for $1500. total package. If our figures are right 15+whp and 20+wtq are completely within range and not to mention the fact that you`ll now actually be making power above 5K rpm`s. Without a loss of bottom end TQ or HP. 
Please take note that there are no solid numbers from any of this given info but I would not be interested in a cam program that would yield anything less then what is stated. If the cams couldn`t do it and additional profiles could not be designed to get these minimum numbers that I have stated then I would simply take the loss and look elsewhere. I would not have made this post if I were not working so hard on this product. 

Cheers. 

I would definitely want to do something like what hes talking about if I was gonna build an ultimate engine.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_..............I would have to go with something like autronic.

I am confused by this?







Not trying to single out Autronic, I am just curious to the reason behind an SEM being better?


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_ I am confused by this?







Not trying to single out Autronic, I am just curious to the reason behind an SEM being better?

Just my $0.02 but if I am building an ultimate motor I wouldn't do chip tuning. I would want the ability to go in and customize the tune and have the ability to make changes in the future as needed.


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## Lloyd Plumtree (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_
Just my $0.02 but if I am building an ultimate motor I wouldn't do chip tuning. I would want the ability to go in and customize the tune and have the ability to make changes in the future as needed.

Your under estimating ME7.


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## Lloyd Plumtree (Aug 13, 2008)

*FV-QR*

I could go on for days with what could be done. I do know where I`m starting with my mine. The head. check this out.....
little flow number info. 
Stock 1.8L 5v Big port head flows
212/195 in/ex @ .380" lift
210/175 in/ex @ .500" lift
Stock 2.5L 4v head flows
223/152 in/ex @ .400" lift
4g63......233/188..... thanks VW


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Lloyd Plumtree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lloyd Plumtree* »_I could go on for days with what could be done. I do know where I`m starting with my mine. The head. check this out.....
little flow number info. 
Stock 1.8L 5v Big port head flows
212/195 in/ex @ .380" lift
210/175 in/ex @ .500" lift
Stock 2.5L 4v head flows
223/152 in/ex @ .400" lift
4g63......233/188..... thanks VW

Well that post is surley going to piss some people off since the 1.8t neva looses.









[NA]
ITB
CAM
12:1 compression
head porting
fender stickers....lol
bigger valves
headers


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## daemontrym (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Audi4u)*

Audi I think what you just listed would make a hell of an autocross car....
I would go for 
GT40R Turbo
8.5 Compression Forged and cryo treated rods/pistons
ARP head studs
copper shimmed head gasket
ported head/gasket matched(intake/exhaust ports)
dual coil valve springs
long tuned runner intake manifold
equal length turbo header
cams matched to the whole setup
Tial 38 mm external waste gate
Open exhaust no muffler no cats just sraight pipes
whatever clutch it takes to handle the power
whatever it takes to make it AWD
Engine managemeant I have an idea I want to work on..
I want to build an entertainment/on the fly enginemanagment system out of some choice parts.
Intel Atom 1.6Ghz chip
Nano ITX board
USB DVD ROM
OCZ SATA II Solid state 64GB harddrive
2GB DDR2 800 Ram
Custom made enclosure
Fusible link along with a redundant power inverter
Modified Vagcom and modified ECM
Running Ubuntu Linux and Megasquirt 3 software with a few lines of
code added to run some fun stuff
7 inch touch screen in place of the stereo 

Just something to think about, trying to get into the mind's thighs


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## a7xogg (Nov 25, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (daemontrym)*

lets put it in simplest terms as possible.
replace alomst every part inside the engine with performance parts, big ass garret turbo with turbo manifold and intake manifold. meth injectors. full 3 inch exhaust with a resonator and stage 3+ clutch and flywheel. i think thats good enough.


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## Tbugsy (Nov 11, 2007)

Mated to a 6-spd. And Quattro. k. Thanks.


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
Well that post is surley going to piss some people off since the 1.8t neva looses.









[NA]
ITB
CAM
12:1 compression
head porting
fender stickers....lol
bigger valves
headers

X2 on all that... AutoX is what I race and yes that would make one hell of am AutoX engine....
I have wanted a high compression or Eaton supercharged 2.5 for a while now... I have an extra engine.... but I am so busy with work, just buying a house, and my Mk1... its hard to find time to do anything with it...


_Modified by sharons03jetta at 3:18 PM 1-17-2009_


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

i might be experimenting with some stock fsi pistons. that should put me the engine at about 10.5:1 or maybe 11:1. they are free im thinking it would be something good to try out.
I just might be crazy enough to turbo it too..porsches are turbo with higer compression non fsi.
but should be nice all motor either way. we need cams to tie all this together.


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## daemontrym (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

Innovation!!


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (daemontrym)*

Jealousy!!


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## Golf 2.0T (Apr 17, 2007)

MK3...Quattro...GT35R...forged pistons and rods...standalone


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## daemontrym (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: (Golf 2.0T)*

I think we need to step out of the mold and rethink this enginesoftware/management systems.
I want to build something myself as a cool little project that can have some huge results with the right hardware. Audi4u is helping me out on this issue as well.
This right here is 257 dollars
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/epia_p700_10
I want to use that a basis of an engine management system/entertainment system. I want to use a 7" touch screen in place of the stereo for it too. I am not sure about most of you but I only listen to the radio or play MP3s in my car. So I don't have much of a need for a cdplayer. I plan on running 1GB of RAM on a laptop SODIMM, a Solid state 2.5" harddrive so heat isn't an issue, and building a card/box that has a USB link into the engine management system. I want to build something where if someone just wanted the engine management then thats what they will get. It will just have a USB interface to it chillin somewhere.

Megasquirt software is open source and available for linux and windows. I plan on coding in features for our engines since megasquirt doesn't run our COP system because of it being a 5cyl. There is going to be a LOT of research and developement and when I buy the parts I will be sure to post.


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## socal07rabbit (Apr 23, 2007)

I'd actually destroke it, all forged internals and custom crank, prob GT40R and a 2-stage direct port kit. Software is easy, electromotive Tec3. Easily 650hp, but with so many other viable(cheaper) options, why would someone spend that much?


_Modified by socal07rabbit at 8:08 PM 1-20-2009_


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## Einfache und Euro (Jan 20, 2009)

*Re: (socal07rabbit)*

*twin turbo* if it could be done
question?
is it possible to bore out a cylinder to a 2.7 on a 2.5?


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## dlob32 (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (Einfache und Euro)*

eurojets upcoming turbo kit. period.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (Einfache und Euro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *socal07rabbit* »_I'd actually destroke it, all forged internals and custom crank, prob GT40R and a 2-stage direct port kit. Software is easy, electromotive Tec3. Easily 650hp, but with so many other viable(cheaper) options, why would someone spend that much?

_Modified by socal07rabbit at 8:08 PM 1-20-2009_

Tec3 can not run 5 cylinders without a distributor. Only a few systems can run a 5 cylinder sequential ignition engine and tec3 isn't one of them. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Einfache und Euro* »_*twin turbo* if it could be done
question?
is it possible to bore out a cylinder to a 2.7 on a 2.5?









no. you can safely bore to a true 2.5 but not 2.7. you would need need a bigger crank.


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## BluMagic (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: [Build] What would be the ultimate 2.5 engine build....... (Audi4u)*

itbs, cams and bolt ons and i would be in heaven..... if i had another car to drive dailiy i would love high comp
I <3 N/A power


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## JettaMk5 (Aug 11, 2008)

*Re: (daemontrym)*


_Quote, originally posted by *daemontrym* »_
I want to build something myself as a cool little project that can have some huge results with the right hardware. Audi4u is helping me out on this issue as well.
This right here is 257 dollars
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/epia_p700_10
I want to use that a basis of an engine management system/entertainment system. 


Not to sidetrack this discussion, but I would DEFINITELY look into something a little more powerful than an embedded EPIA, like an Atom based picoATX. Those VIA processors are sluggish enough I wouldn't want to trust my engine management to one.....


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## socal07rabbit (Apr 23, 2007)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
Tec3 can not run 5 cylinders without a distributor. Only a few systems can run a 5 cylinder sequential ignition engine and tec3 isn't one of them. 
no. you can safely bore to a true 2.5 but not 2.7. you would need need a bigger crank.

The guy I know has done many Electromotive cars and he knows the programmers. I bet it could be done, he tuned my buddy's SRT4 to the tune of 560whp on a stock block. Really, what would it take to add another cylinder to the program? It also has the ability to run different style injectors, so custom injectors would not be necessary...
Money talks, they could do it.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (socal07rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *socal07rabbit* »_
The guy I know has done many Electromotive cars and he knows the programmers. I bet it could be done, he tuned my buddy's SRT4 to the tune of 560whp on a stock block. Really, what would it take to add another cylinder to the program? It also has the ability to run different style injectors, so custom injectors would not be necessary...
Money talks, they could do it.









I know the owners also. The thing is I'm sure you could get them to change the firmware to accommodate 5 cylinder engines for a costly price, but why go through that when you can just buy a system that already works? Electromotive is one of the pioneers of aftermarket engine control. If they havent added 5 cylinder support in over a decade, its safe to say its not going to happen on the current hardware.
Here is a link to the tec3 info if anyone is interested. 
http://www.electromotive-inc.c....html


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## daemontrym (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

Too many of you guys talk more with your wallet then you do your brain. I don't care if I can spout of at the mouth saying I have C2 this, I have blah blah that, I have eurojet this.
I would rather have a cost effective build where I learned something while doing it now just the parts I paid people to install.
Many of you lack any sense of innovation and pride in looking at a car and saying Hey I did 90% of the work on that car. I have swapped engines in cars, built crazy setups out of fieros, and junkyard hunted for putting corvette brakes on them as well. 
I want to be able to look at a fast and nice handling car and say I did that. Not the 350 tuners I installed way over priced little mods from


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## socal07rabbit (Apr 23, 2007)

*Re: (daemontrym)*


_Quote, originally posted by *daemontrym* »_Too many of you guys talk more with your wallet then you do your brain. I don't care if I can spout of at the mouth saying I have C2 this, I have blah blah that, I have eurojet this.
I would rather have a cost effective build where I learned something while doing it now just the parts I paid people to install.
Many of you lack any sense of innovation and pride in looking at a car and saying Hey I did 90% of the work on that car. I have swapped engines in cars, built crazy setups out of fieros, and junkyard hunted for putting corvette brakes on them as well. 
I want to be able to look at a fast and nice handling car and say I did that. Not the 350 tuners I installed way over priced little mods from 

Agreed. Which is why the cars I build I build myself, the motors I build I assemble myself, but when someone says ULTiMATE, the brain runs rampant. The same time-tested ideas/theories that have propelled other powerplants well beyond their OEM output will also benefit the measly 2.5 5CYL. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (socal07rabbit)*

werd


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (dlob32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dlob32* »_eurojets upcoming turbo kit. period.

don't hold your breath...lol


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (darkk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darkk* »_
don't hold your breath...lol

You really think so?


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
You really think so?

Haterr


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## SuperleggeraVW (Jan 28, 2009)

Take all those Lambo bits VW took off after chopping the block in half and put them back on, then maybe put the other half back on too...


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## daemontrym (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: (SuperleggeraVW)*

+1 on the lambo bits
It would be cool to have a midengined hatch back..
Mid engined cars drive like go garts! they are awesome.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (daemontrym)*

The W12 650 kinda did that and it spun around ass-backwards every time they threw it into a turn.


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## nvsbandit (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

yeah at first. they ran out of time to rework the suspension...they actually fixed it and it doesnt spin...every time haha


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