# Event Coverage: Waterfest 16 2010



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2002)

It's funny how things can just seem to sneak up on you. This can happen for many reasons, be it because the schedule's too full, or the fanfare isn't as loud as expected. Waterfest, for the _VWvortex_ crew this year, suffered from a little bit of both. With the recent forum changes, and trying to get things ironed out, we were certainly busy enough. But the more interesting fact is the latter reason, the fanfare. After a quick browse through the forums in the weeks preceding the event, there didn't seem to be the same amount of buzz about the show as in years past. Nevertheless, we packed our project GTI up with tents and 500 t-shirts and hit the road for New Jersey. 

*FULL STORY*


----------



## euromaxituning (May 30, 2004)

I had a good time, but there has been better :beer: 
MK2


----------



## Veedubs87 (Jan 7, 2007)

I felt like this was one of the weaker Waterfests I've been to


----------



## Nebby (Jun 2, 2003)

A very friendly spin on what I've heard was a poor overall showing at Waterfest.


----------



## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

Think the most amazing thing in all those pictures are the rear drums on the mk6 Jetta.. you must be kidding...


----------



## eatpiealot (Jan 25, 2008)

sys3175 said:


> Think the most amazing thing in all those pictures are the rear drums on the mk6 Jetta.. you must be kidding...


 :thumbup:


----------



## 5280 (Mar 11, 2003)

Was Volkswagen seriously showing off a car with painted brake drums?


----------



## G60 dude (Oct 3, 2001)

sys3175 said:


> Think the most amazing thing in all those pictures are the rear drums on the mk6 Jetta.. you must be kidding...


 Thought the exact same thing. Curious, anyone know what the MkV base model Jettas come with? Did they revert back to drums with the MkVI's or has the base Jettas always had drums?


----------



## quailallstar (Dec 2, 2001)

sys3175 said:


> Think the most amazing thing in all those pictures are the rear drums on the mk6 Jetta.. you must be kidding...













Yup.. :thumbdown: and body kit looks glued on just like Toyota ones do


----------



## Blue Turbo (May 11, 2006)

No pics of how the rear end looks with that kit?


----------



## thevery3ndofyou (Jul 6, 2008)

:thumbdown:


----------



## davedave (Feb 20, 2001)

the black wheels are horrible


----------



## dubsport87 (Oct 2, 2003)

looks like an ugly audi


----------



## Preppy (May 3, 2001)

I hate to be a debbie downer, but this has to be one of the most bland and uninspired designs I have yet to see come from VW. 

How far downmarket has the jetta come? Painted rear drum brakes? Glued on body additions? Tractor-like ride height? Rear twist-beam suspension? Wow... what happened to moving technology forward? 

It's sad to see VW decontenting and pushing their products downmarket in the pursuit of their business aspirations. I understand the rationale, but for those of us who like the brand/product and what differentiates it from the background of mediocrity, this just sucks. I have always been happy to pay a premium for a VW over the competition, because there was value for the extra cost. Now, is there any reason to buy this jetta over say, a civic or corolla? 

I'll be demonstrating my lack of interest in the brand next time around. 

/rant 


...edit. 

*What the hell got lost in translation?*


----------



## John Y (Apr 27, 1999)

That looks awful. The skirts looked tacked on - tacky and the front of the car seems just so bland, uninspired even downright unfinished in photos. Looks like an inital sketch. The Scion (the truck, not the coupe) corssed my mind just now looking at the front. The back is an A4 copy, as we know. The only elements I like are teh creases at the top and bottom of the doors, that run along the side. I guess grafting the GTI bumper, lights and grilles to the front will help make a GLI, but I don't know...admittedly I am not a Jetta guy, but at this point I would say that any of the first 5 generations is a better-looking car than this.


----------



## stealthmk3 (Nov 30, 2007)

I would have to agree with everyone on here. The only reason I came into this "coverage" forum was to bitch about this horrible departure of vw from the crowd that supports it, and I realized in the couple posts here everyone has hit the nail on the head. Those drums just make me want to puke. This explains and confirms the rationale of why every VW I buy continues to be older, because VW is failing to move the company in the right direction.


----------



## halitzor (Dec 26, 2007)

Looks MK4 is the only jetta that will ever be attractive.


----------



## Fastvolks (Apr 30, 2003)

Hopefully when VW comes out with the GLI it will look better and I don't get the drums and going back to the rear beam thing but I do hear the GLI will have rear disk brakes and independent rear suspension.


----------



## Troike (Jul 21, 2003)

drums? really? :laugh: 
my stock mk4 Golf finally had rear discs .. thought we left drums behind with mk3. 



halitzor said:


> Looks MK4 is the only jetta that will ever be attractive.


  



















i have love for mk3s too but I'm not a Jetta guy, can't find a pic I like  

As far as the mk6 .. or NMS, whatever ... definately is 'uninspired' to say the least. 
The leap from mk5 --> mk6 (both golf and Jetta) is, in my opinion, the least substantial / most poorly executed model change in VW's A-series history.


----------



## halitzor (Dec 26, 2007)

MK2 GLI's can look nice. I don't like the MK1's tho : / 

MK3 jetta's are pretty much the ugliest car of the 90's.


----------



## jrgrinder (Dec 2, 2008)

lower it.


----------



## h dub (Oct 28, 2009)

jrgrinder said:


> lower it.


 beat me to it


----------



## Mk1ller (Jun 15, 2008)




----------



## John Y (Apr 27, 1999)

I don't have a problem with the rear drums, much less the torsion beam rear - the latter worked pretty well through the first 4 generations of Golf/Jetta. These are the steps to make it cheaper to build and cheaper to sell...what I don't like is the blandness...


----------



## 85GTI (Dec 19, 2000)

I think recessions breed blandness.


----------



## 1979GTI16V (Sep 22, 2001)

Preppy said:


> I hate to be a debbie downer, but this has to be one of the most bland and uninspired designs I have yet to see come from VW.
> 
> How far downmarket has the jetta come? Painted rear drum brakes? Glued on body additions? Tractor-like ride height? Rear twist-beam suspension? Wow... what happened to moving technology forward?
> 
> ...


 couldn't agree more...sadly the rear end is NOT a twist, its a stick with drum brakes attached to it. solid axle awesome-ness :banghead: people do not buy VWs for price, they do it because they are better, and different. :thumbdown:


----------



## CobraKing (Feb 15, 2010)

Looks like they engineered the car in Mexico too...


----------



## vwlifer27 (Jun 15, 2005)

wait, you guys do know that your side skirts on your mk5s are glued on too, right?


----------



## VWFaninCincinnati (Jul 23, 2010)

*Identity Crisis?*

Is VW having an indentity crisis? This new Jetta especially with the fugly black wheels, tacked-on "effects" and, if true, rear drum brakes, has to be VW's attempt to draw customers from Nissan, Toyota and the Koreans. 

My gut tells me to decry this effort, but then my head tells me that VW must believe that growth will not come from a vocal but small group (like those of us who write and read here.) Folks participating here and on AudiWorld, other brand name blogs, etc, are certainly important to the manufacturers; but, I suspect we represent a relatively insignificant minority from a financial perspective. 

We're zealots. If, collectively, we were to put our money where our mouths are, well, MAYBE our posts would carry some weight. As it stands, apparently, we have a lot less "juice" than the potential VW must see in attempting to lure new customers away from the usual suspects noted above. 

One way to do this is to figure out a way to increase form, reduce substance, appear to increase content all the while doing everything possible NOT to increase the cost. Solid rear ends, drum brakes and stick-'em-on effects for the cognoscenti (but not really for THEM 'cause they know better, actually the tarted up presentation is for the faux-cognoscenti) seem to be the formula du jour. 

Drive the IMAGE (with the proletariat) up while simultaneously actually dumbing down the actual product -- neat trick if you can get away with it. 

I predict this new Jetta will be popular (this is a version specifically dumbed down for us 'Mericans, yes?) 

It may go, stop and handle far below its potential. But just remember, good is the enemy of great -- just ask all those companies who built cars better than Toyotas only to find that Toyota cleaned their clocks (sales-wise.) 

In other words, "We have met the enemy and he is us!" 

Drive it like you live.


----------



## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

you purists forget that this whole 'rear drum' move is about making a car that is as low of an entry level vehicle for for those looking to get into a vw. So yes its pretty obvious that this is about as watered down as this car can get. 
Also, do you guys really think that the average buyer will push their 100hp 2.0 car to its limits that require going beyond an mk4-like torsion beam and MK3 rear drum brake? ..If it worked then, why not now? 


besides, those of you know that vw will offer an IRS in higher platform trim levels that will be on par with the 2.0 and the TSI, and TDI...........:thumbup:


----------



## Veedubgti (Mar 5, 2001)

I just don't see IRS being offered at any trim level.......not gonna happen. VW is not going to re-design the entire rear suspension system of a NA only vehicle just for a trim level.


----------



## GTI_LUV (Sep 3, 2003)

GLI version tested in Europe 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q3/2011_volkswagen_jetta_gli_2.0_tsi-first_drive_review


----------



## thejazzguy (Nov 11, 2006)

*So disappointed.*

:thumbdown: This car makes me want to cry. As someone already mentioned, the body kit looks cheap and tacked on, just like all the garbage from Toyota. The drum brakes are completely unacceptable on a modern car. This is not the 1980s. True, Toyota and Honda and GM use drums, but they all make pedestrian appliances that put safety at the bottom of the list. I will never buy a car with drum brakes, ever, for any reason. Period. Drum brakes=no sale. VW wake up! You will gain neophyte customers, but will lose the core people who loved the tight German dynamics that the brand was built on. Growth at any cost is not the answer. Appalling to say the least. Simply disgusting.


----------



## 1.8Transporter (Oct 13, 2002)

What wheels are these? How can I get them? Why is it that the wheels really make or break the appearance of a car? Same car with 16" rims would look horrendous.


----------



## mozcar78 (Nov 30, 2003)

Veedubgti said:


> I just don't see IRS being offered at any trim level.......not gonna happen. VW is not going to re-design the entire rear suspension system of a NA only vehicle just for a trim level.


 Its not a re-desgin if its been used before, right? The MKV has IRS. They can and will do it................... 





GTI_LUV said:


> GLI version tested in Europe
> 
> http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q3/2011_volkswagen_jetta_gli_2.0_tsi-first_drive_review


 This guys got the idea^^^^^^^^ 


The GLI will come with a multi-link rear suspension. 






thejazzguy said:


> :thumbdown: This car makes me want to cry. As someone already mentioned, the body kit looks cheap and tacked on, just like all the garbage from Toyota. The drum brakes are completely unacceptable on a modern car. This is not the 1980s. True, Toyota and Honda and GM use drums, but they all make pedestrian appliances that put safety at the bottom of the list. I will never buy a car with drum brakes, ever, for any reason. Period. Drum brakes=no sale. VW wake up! You will gain neophyte customers, but will lose the core people who loved the tight German dynamics that the brand was built on. Growth at any cost is not the answer. Appalling to say the least. Simply disgusting.


 
This is your personal preference. Once again, the average driver will not care about such a thing. Also, 90's vw's have them as well........ and yes it is completely acceptable. If you dont like, then get the GLI.:beer:


----------



## vpcmotorsport (Feb 4, 2006)

VW is trying to take over the market, they think that Americans are all fat and like slow non handling cars - bland Toyotaish - which makes no sense to me at all. Big fat no supporting seats for my big fat American Ass, and 15 cup holders for my Big Gulp Slurpee's. 

I think we Americans like power and quality.....

It does make sense from a sales point of view because people will be buying their first VW at the sub $16k range, they wont know what they are missing. 

Autoblog did a first drive, if you haven read it you should, its sad that it is coming to VW cutting corners but it is inevitable if they want to be the automotive superpower. 

Quote--"For Volkswagen of America, it doesn't get more _brot-und-butter_ than the Jetta. Forced into the shadow of the best-selling Golf, VW Germany's refrain was "Sell more Golfs!" To which VoA would steadfastly reply, _*"Americans don't want hatchbacks!"*_"

----What??!? Since when???

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/21/2011-volkswagen-jetta-first-drive-road-test-review/

Cheap plastic interiors, drum brakes are just the start. I am just happy I got the last good Jetta off the line, they are all going to be crap form now on.......

I think my next car will be a BMW.:thumbup:


----------



## vpcmotorsport (Feb 4, 2006)

Preppy said:


> I hate to be a debbie downer, but this has to be one of the most bland and uninspired designs I have yet to see come from VW.
> 
> How far downmarket has the jetta come? Painted rear drum brakes? Glued on body additions? Tractor-like ride height? Rear twist-beam suspension? Wow... what happened to moving technology forward?
> 
> ...


 
They kept the floor mats the same :laugh:


----------



## 1.8turboB5 (May 1, 2002)

1979GTI16V said:


> couldn't agree more...sadly the rear end is NOT a twist, its a stick with drum brakes attached to it. solid axle awesome-ness :banghead: people do not buy VWs for price, they do it because they are better, and different. :thumbdown:


 
*WRONG! 

It is a Twist beam rear end. * 

info i gained from training and actually driving the new JETTA 

The drum brake are on the base S and lower end SE. 

The drum break set up out stops the under 20k class of 4 wheel disc cars. by up to 7 feet in some cases. 

GLI gets IRS CONFIRMED and TDI is planned to have IRS 

The MK6 Jetta even in 2.slow base trim rides and handles better than the MKV and is in another clas compared to the honda, nissan and toyota and edge out the mazda 3. ( i drove back to back to back ....) 

SEL sport package is the best sport pack non GTI/GLI we have ever recieved.. in handling and looks (relative to the base of the same model) 

thie MK6 Jetta in Many ways is a downgrade from the MKV but its going to be much much cheaper, and it is still a couple steps above the competition. 

all this and it has better interior space than the Passat and a bigger trunk.. 

fullsize spare stays intact. 

hydrolic steering returns. (steering feel is back!) 

sport seats in sport package are same from concept. (not white tho of course) 

Navigation is standard in all trim packages from high end SE and up. 

RNS 315 is a better user experience than the RNS 510 


65 of 70 people walked into training hating the new jetta and 70 left raving about it. 

we compared against top end Mazda 3s, civic ex-L, corrolla xls, nissan sentra. 


we compared SEL (which includes nav and 17s) with 20-21k japanese competitors. and they indicated. top end jetta se will be in the same price range. 

new jetta out handles, is quieter, bigger, faster and lighter than outgoing mkV.. and better looking. in most opinions it may not look as good as the mkIV, but it certainly out styles the MKV and its more affordable to boot!


----------



## thejazzguy (Nov 11, 2006)

mozcar78 said:


> yes it is completely acceptable.


 Surprising to hear from someone on Vortex! My previous car had rear drums, and they were trash. The cylinders leaked, they always needed adjustment, and the pedal feel was horrid. I think that no cars (including Toyota) should have drums.


----------



## Air and water do mix (Aug 5, 2004)

thejazzguy said:


> Surprising to hear from someone on Vortex! My previous car had rear drums, and they were trash. The cylinders leaked, they always needed adjustment, and the pedal feel was horrid. I think that no cars (including Toyota) should have drums.


 Right. Your anecdotal evidence means that all drum brakes are lousy. :banghead: Ask anyone who owns a pre- '62 356 what they think of that opinion. Really. 

I'm willing to see what we get and actually drive it. Like 1.8turboB5 did. It's an old saw, but 1 test is worth 1000 expert opinions. :beer:


----------



## 1979GTI16V (Sep 22, 2001)

1.8turboB5 said:


> *WRONG!
> 
> *
> 
> .....hydrolic steering returns. (steering feel is back!)...


 is that anything like _hydraulic_ assisted steering or is that new technology? is there no actual mechanical link between the steering wheel and the wheels of the car??  


BTW, that's sarcasm.


----------



## jorge r (Apr 27, 2006)

There's very few new 2 door hardtop models anymore, even coupes. It's not easy accepting a 4 door, except for family use.


----------



## jiz! (Jul 24, 2010)

LOL 

everyone loved the prerender 

no disc brake pictured in the back here either 

now everyone is complaining ?? :screwy: 










new jetta looks great, cant wait for all the cool mods to come out :thumbup:


----------



## onepointeightdub (Feb 14, 2008)

the new jetta looks like ****... the pre-renders DID look good with the fine details which volkswagen, unfortunately, removed for the actual production car (duckbill spoiler to the back, short front, and bumper lines). Seems like the designers didn't know when to stop editing and redrawing the car and ruined a good concept.


----------



## jiz! (Jul 24, 2010)

onepointeightdub said:


> the new jetta looks like ****... the pre-renders DID look good with the fine details which volkswagen, unfortunately, removed for the actual production car (duckbill spoiler to the back, short front, and bumper lines). Seems like the designers didn't know when to stop editing and redrawing the car and ruined a good concept.


 this car looks 99% like the prerender so dont kid yourself 

the only reason the prerender looks better is because of the fake CG lighting..


----------



## onepointeightdub (Feb 14, 2008)

the actual car leaves the taste of an asian car compared to the render. I mean what the hell is up with that lip at the front of it? It looks out of place... It could be the color of the car but to me it doesn't have a soul. I guess the cg lighting faked a sleek refined car while the actual car looks grossly fat, overweight and stubby. that thing up there is an econobox.


----------



## thejazzguy (Nov 11, 2006)

Air and water do mix said:


> Ask anyone who owns a pre- '62 356 what they think of that opinion....It's an old saw, but 1 test is worth 1000 expert opinions. :beer:


 That's a good point. Thanks for giving me a different perspective!


----------



## jiz! (Jul 24, 2010)

1.8turboB5 said:


> *WRONG!
> 
> It is a Twist beam rear end. *
> 
> ...


 you are just trying to hype the mk6 because you are affiliated with vw. I like the mk6 but it's not on the level of the mk5. 

an mk6 with a 115hp engine, drum brakes and twist beam rear suspension that goes from 0-60 in 12 seconds _out handles_ an mk5? either you didn't drive it back to back or you just don't have a clue about performance and handling.. because the 2.0 mk6 is going to be a REALLY SLOW and BORING car given it's size and weight. while the mk5 might have had feminine styling it is largely a girls car and that will never change but at least it had quality components and great handling. 

nobody liked the way the mk4 looked. it was dated and ugly and was full of problems and cheap components. the mk5 was much nicer all around than the mk4 and the critics all agreed among the numerous reviews so that's not up for debate. The mk5 was a great looking car especially after a few mods and held unique styling (unlike the mk6 which looks like a korean audi)

i don't see how the mk6 is cheaper. a GLI is going to run about $24g. the same price as the mk5 GLI. Even if it is a bit cheaper, it's because of the cheaper interior materials used and rushed production speeds which will probably result in more recalls. :thumbup:


----------



## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

Just wanted to pop in to say thanks!! for organizing the galleries! Though i still didn't see myself from auto-x, I understand it's hard to photograph every car at every event


----------



## JumpalTurbo5 (Feb 21, 2003)

*what is this?*


----------



## quailallstar (Dec 2, 2001)

JumpalTurbo5 said:


>


 That is a Golf City based on the old Bora/Jetta/Golf MK4. Currently sold in Canada with the 2.0l (2 slow) engine. 

Check it out 
http://www.vw.ca/ca/en_ca/models/city_golf.html


----------



## thesilentmovies (Jun 15, 2010)

> because the 2.0 mk6 is going to be a REALLY SLOW and BORING car given it's size and weight.


 The Mk6 is lighter than the Mk5. 

And, I know this is the Vortex, where everybody thinks all Volkswagens should have 6,000 horsepower and ride 2 millimeters off the ground, but...considering that the base-model Mk6 Jetta is supposed to appeal to the masses, I'm not sure they'll care as much about performance. 

Volkswagen trying to live up to its legacy as "the people's car" really freaks out the enthusiasts here, for some reason. There will be a GLI and other models for you - why freak out over a base model that you probably wouldn't buy anyway? 

There was a thread around here where a guy actually said he didn't want regular people buying Volkswagens, which showcases an enthusiast community that is crawling up its own backside. They're Volkswagens - they should have stuff for everybody, not just the hardcore enthusiasts on Vortex who all want 19 inch wheels, ridiculously low ride heights, and boser hoods. 



> nobody liked the way the mk4 looked. it was dated and ugly


 Uh, what? The Mk4 is widely considered to be one of the best-looking Jettas ever made. The Mk5 is usually thought of as a great car, but it's blobby styling isn't really that high up on the list. 

Styling-wise, the Mk6 looks more inline with Jettas of old than the over-rounded looks of the Mk5.


----------



## too_slow (May 10, 2006)

really disappointed with the tacked-on body kit.. they could have at least made it like the MK4 Votex pieces (flush OEM look)


----------



## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

Man I am missing the MKIV GLI more and more.


----------



## ALLROAD VR (Jan 23, 2006)

Wow some changes in Waterfest! I haven't been to Waterfest for a long time...it's good they're bringing Japanese/Korean cars to the show now. I guess that's why I stopped attending the shows and we also stopped buying new Volkswagens. :laugh:



















Wow some changes in Waterfest! I haven't been to Waterfest for a long time...it's good they're bringing Japanese/Korean cars to the show now. I guess that's why I stopped attending the shows and we also stopped buying new Volkswagens. :laugh:


----------



## bajda22 (Aug 31, 2006)

halitzor said:


> Looks MK4 is the only jetta that will ever be attractive.


what? i'll take any jetta besides a MKIV jetta


----------



## halitzor (Dec 26, 2007)

I would normally say you're incredibly more alone in that assessment than you really think. But that's probably true for both of us 


MK4 Jetta's are the only ones that look decent IMO 

I mean unless you can find a MK2 GLI in pristine condition!


----------



## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

To me, the photos of the 2011 Jetta on Autoblog look a lot better than this modified white Jetta shown in the posts here at Waterfest. :sly:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/21/2011-volkswagen-jetta-first-drive-road-test-review/


----------



## jiz! (Jul 24, 2010)

thesilentmovies said:


> Uh, what? The Mk4 is widely considered to be one of the best-looking Jettas ever made. The Mk5 is usually thought of as a great car, but it's blobby styling isn't really that high up on the list.


show me one review that says the mk4 is the best looking jetta ever made... please.. i'll be waiting..


----------



## jiz! (Jul 24, 2010)

papa_vw said:


> To me, the photos of the 2011 Jetta on Autoblog look a lot better than this modified white Jetta shown in the posts here at Waterfest. :sly:
> 
> http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/21/2011-volkswagen-jetta-first-drive-road-test-review/


thats the sel... $23,000 will buy you a good looking jetta. 

still disappointed the sel doesn't have wood trims


----------



## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

jiz! said:


> show me one review that says the mk4 is the best looking jetta ever made... please.. i'll be waiting..


The Mk4 was a sensation when it came out... it looked like nothing else, but in a really good way. It broke the mold, quite literally (one HUGE criticism of the Mk2 and Mk3 at the times of their release was that they were too evolutionary and conservative, and looked too similar to the old model). The Mk4 definitely changed that because even 13 years after the design was penned it still looks decently modern. It's a matter of personal opinion whether it's still the "best" one out there (I think it's close to the top, all things considered).


----------



## hewett_dick (Jul 29, 2010)

*Dumbed down*

I agree with Preppy - this car is a complete waste of time


----------



## modemco (Mar 27, 2007)

*VW Shooting Video*

Did anyone see a group in a golf cart shooting video. I was wondering what it was all about? They had a videocamera, microphone boom looked like someone was doing interviews.

Thx!


----------



## Farnsworth (Jan 26, 2010)

Tacked on body-kit and painted drum brakes... VWoA is obviously going for the "youth" segment of the Corolla-Civic market.


----------

