# 2001 Passat, barely runs, scan inside



## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

This is a friend's car. She was driving on the interstate and lost power to the point where it gradually slowed to a near stop. She was able to nurse it into a parking lot and it quit on her. I went to look at it and was able to get it to start, but only by pressing the gas at least half way down. I could barely keep it running and there is obvious multiple cylinder misfire.

With 152K miles, the first thing I though about was the timing belt (2.8L V6). She bought the car at 122K miles and does not know the maintenance history. Obviously, she has not had the belt replaced. Though it was misfiring and shaking badly, I did not hear any bad mechanical noises from the engine. I'm hoping if it is the belt, that it just slipped a couple teeth but was not enough for the pistons to hit the valves.

There are 17 codes. She did say that she had a check engine light before this happened, and had taken it to a shop and they told her there was a problem with the O2 sensors. Two of the codes below say there is no communication with the O2 sensors, so those are probably not related to the sudden loss in engine power but are likely making whatever the issue is worse. 

There is also a code for no communication with the camshaft position sensor. While I still suspect the timing belt could have slipped, I'm left wondering how well the engine would run if both O2 sensors and the camshaft position sensor were unplugged. The computer wouldn't have much if any way of measuring how it was controlling the engine or when to inject fuel or spark. Could it be that simple? 

I used to own a 2001.5 Passat (I now have a 2008). It's been a while since I've worked on one. Where is the camshaft position sensor located? I want to eliminate the simple things before I start tearing it apart. 

Is there an inspection plate for the timing belt somewhere that I can easily get to?

Full scan:

VCDS Version: Release 12.12.2 (x64)
Data version: 20140212

Monday,19,May,2014,16:01:38:29804

Chassis Type: 3B - VW Passat B5 (1997 > 2005)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 35 36 37 46 47 55 56 57 58 75 76 77


Mileage: 245590km/152602miles
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Address 01: Engine Labels: 078-907-551-ATQ.lbl
Part No: 3B0 907 551 AN
Component: 2.8L V6/5V G 0050 
Coding: 07551
Shop #: WSC 02112 
VCID: 6FED6AF22DE9606672D-5140

17 Faults Found:
17584 - Bank1: O2 (Lambda) Correction Behind Catalyst 
P1176 - 35-10 - Control Limit Reached - Intermittent
17819 - Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 2 
P1411 - 35-10 - Insufficient Flow - Intermittent
17831 - Secondary Air Injection System; Bank 1 
P1423 - 35-10 - Insufficient Flow - Intermittent
17704 - Error in Mapped Cooling System (check Temp-Sensor and Thermostat) 
P1296 - 35-10 - - Intermittent
17746 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) 
P1338 - 35-00 - Open or Short to Plus
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
P0300 - 35-00 - 
16685 - Cylinder 1 
P0301 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
16687 - Cylinder 3 
P0303 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
16686 - Cylinder 2 
P0302 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
17551 - Load Calculation Cross Check 
P1143 - 35-10 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16518 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1 
P0134 - 35-00 - No Activity
16690 - Cylinder 6 
P0306 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
17521 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S1 
P1113 - 35-10 - Internal Resistance too High - Intermittent
16689 - Cylinder 5 
P0305 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
16717 - Knock Sensor 2 (G66) 
P0333 - 35-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
16688 - Cylinder 4 
P0304 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
16538 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1 
P0154 - 35-00 - No Activity
Readiness: 0000 0000

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Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
Part No: 8D0 927 156 AS
Component: AG5 01V 2.8l5V USA 3132 
Coding: 00104
Shop #: WSC 00028 
VCID: 7EF347B67A8319EEE9B-5140

No fault code found.

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Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-111-ASR.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 111 AH
Component: ABS/ASR 5.3 FRONT D10 
Coding: 00031
Shop #: WSC 02112 
VCID: 64C715DEF42FD33E1FF-5140

No fault code found.

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Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3Bx-907-044.lbl
Part No: 3B1 907 044 D
Component: CLIMATRONIC D2.2 
Coding: 05000
Shop #: WSC 00028 
VCID: 224B53C6AEBB9D0EAD3-5140

No fault code found.

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Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 6Q0 909 605 C
Component: 03 AIRBAG VW6 0003 
Coding: 12339
Shop #: WSC 00028 
VCID: 377D92921539E8A66AD-4B1E

No fault code found.

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Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1J0-907-487.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 487 
Component: Lenkradelektronik X34 
Coding: 00008
Shop #: WSC 00028 
VCID: EED3F7F6AAE3E96EF9B-5210

No fault code found.

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Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3B0-920-xx2-17.lbl
Part No: 3B0 920 920 BX
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V27 
Coding: 07265
Shop #: WSC 06482 
VCID: 75E1589A4FB55AB6B81-5140

No fault code found.

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Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001 
Coding: 00007
Shop #: WSC 06482 
VCID: F0EFE98EB0D7FF9EEB7-5140

No fault code found.

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Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3B1-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3B1 959 760 A
Component: Sitzverstellung FS 0003 
VCID: 2B55BEE2D9715C461E5-5140

No fault code found.

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Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
Component: 6Y Zentral-SG Komf. 0001 
Coding: 04098
Shop #: WSC 00028 
VCID: 8603AF56A253C12E21B-4B04

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J0959801H
Component: 6Y Tõrsteuerger. FS0002F 

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J0959802J
Component: 6Y Tõrsteuerger. BF0002r 

Subsystem 3 - Part No: Steuerger
Component: t HL antwortet nicht 

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1J4959812D
Component: 6Y Tõrsteuerger. HR0002r 

3 Faults Found:
00953 - Interior Light Time limit 
25-10 - Unknown Switch Condition - Intermittent
01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388) 
49-00 - No Communications
00913 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Right Driver (E81) 
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

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Address 56: Radio Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
Part No: 1J0 035 180 B
Component: Radio DE2 0004 
Coding: 04041
Shop #: WSC 00028 
VCID: 1E3367369AC3B9EE89B-51B6

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## MMMH2O (Oct 24, 2004)

*Had a similar problem...*

My daughter had similar issue a year ago with her new born daughter in the car on a cold Jan. day. It turned out that there was a bad relay switch. The first shop replaced the cam shaft sensor and got it started. But it stalled as the car was driven away from the shop. A new battery was installed, and same thing again. So I had it towed to VW dealer, where they had difficulty with it. But while on scan they noticed a split second failure and were able to track it to a relay switch. Not sure which one, but they said it would not normally show up on a scan. Oh yeah, it is a 2001 Passat with the AUG engine. (1.8T).


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Well, here's the first thing I found when I took the top cover off:










That's the remains of some very old and oil soaked duct tape I pulled off. Remember, she doesn't know the maintenance history of this car, so who knows how many miles that's been on there (probably at least for the 30K miles she's owned it). 

Question- is the 2.8 30V V6 PCV system like that in my 2008 Passat 2.0T FSI, in that if you introduce an air leak to the crankcase, the engine will run very poorly or even die? If I pull the oil dip stick on my 2.0T, the engine runs rough. If I open the oil filler, my 2.0T will die instantly. I'm wondering if this large PCV leak on her engine would have caused her car to lose power and barely run. Does anyone know, or can anyone with this engine start it and then open the oil filler and report whether it affects how the engine runs?

I pulled the timing covers and bumped the engine until I was satisfied that I had inspected the entire timing belt. The good news is that there is no fatigue cracking on the back side, and though the teeth show some wear, none are stripped or show any signs of having slipped:










Now the bad news, there is a lot of oil sludge inside the oil filler cap. This may be local to the cap; I won't know till I pull the valve cover. Still, with 152K miles and no maintenance history prior to 122K, this is not good news. It just may not be worth it to try to save this car....










These vacuum hoses are also disintegrating and will have to be replaced:


















Which of these is the Cam Position Sensor that has lost communication based on the code above? The code doesn't specify Bank 1 or Bank 2:



















I think it's the first one? I didn't see where a similar sensor would be on the driver side head as the first picture above. I think the first picture is the CMP sensor, and the second is maybe for Camshaft (engine) speed?

Any help is appreciated.


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Anyone?

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

It appears there's not much help to be had in this forum anymore. Sad.


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## RichardSEL (Apr 5, 2010)

Sandman333 said:


> It appears there's not much help to be had in this forum anymore. Sad.


Have you changed out the PCV yet? Comparing the symptoms with your 2.0L tFSI puck valve fault is accurate.
But dunno whether it can be cleaned like with Servisol first, then overnight soak in white spirit, then re-installed with fresh hose. Or needs new

Have you changed out those vacuum hoses yet?

Dunno about the sensors, never seen a 2.8L much less worked on one. The faults you can fix could be causing others. So would do those first then clear all faults, re-adapt, and re-scan

Posting nine minutes after a previous bump may cause others to shun your thread -- some enthusiasts only read the forum in the weekends


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## stan067 (Feb 25, 2010)

"It appears there's not much help to be had in this forum anymore. Sad." 

It appears your car has too many problems to list them all. How can some one tell you why you have miss fires when you post a bunch of bad stuff that is not fixed.
First you repair all the obvious things you took pictures of, then when your done and there are no obvious problems. Ask for help.

Basically you need $2.000.00 worth of work.
Timing belt, water pump, tentioners.
Valve cover gaskets & tentioner gaskets, sealing plugs rear heads.
Removal of throttle body and cleaning, all plastics (PVC), and all vac. lines.
Also all vac. one way valves need to be checked, suction jet pump.
Basically what I call it ring around the Rossie. Start at front of motor and go all the way around the engine fixing everything.
Also NGK plugs, new plug wires and maybe a coil pack.

If you just want to stop the miss fires good luck. Pull the spark pug wires the holes are most likely filled with oil from the valve cover gasket.

I am not trying to be a smart A$$! The car needs tons of obvious work! And a lot of cash!

Anyone trying to help you would be guessing, so they don't help. 
You have to fix all the things you took pictures of. You obviously know this because you pointed them all out.

After you do all that and you still have a problem post it and we will help. Right now you have a bunch of thing to fix and don't need help.

Also with that amount of miles and the cash it will take to fix. I doubt the customer will want to drop that much cash into the car. There really is no single fix like spark plugs.

I really don't want to offend you!!! So please don't take offense. It just needs a lot of obvious work before asking for help.

Good Luck


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

No offense taken, and thank you for the reply. My comment on help in this forum was based on looking around at other posts and most often seeing "pirated software is not welcome here" and very few replies actually helping someone. 

This is not my car. I would never let a car of mine get this bad. She is a friend and has very little money, so I'm doing the best I can to help her. It's not all her fault, either. She bought the car used so who knows how it was treated for most of its life. 

The question I really need answered is how will an open PCV affect this engine? I know on my 2.0T FSI it kills the engine. 

Also, is there a common electrical harness that some of the wiring for these sensors passes through somewhere? I'm wondering if it's really a sensor problem or a wiring harness problem. 

With no communication from either O2 nor the cam position sensor, I can't see how the computer has any idea how to control the engine. One of the codes also relates to the MAF. It's no wonder it runs like crap. I'm going to run a compression test and then pull a valve cover today to see how much sludge there is. That should confirm the timing and give me an idea if it's worth saving or not. 

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

No, I haven't replaced the PCV yet. I spent the day today working on my son's 2002 Mustang. I put a new rear suspension on it, including Prothane differential bushings. I probably won't get back to her Passat till Sunday. My plan right now is to do a compression test and then pull a valve cover to get an idea of how bad the sludge is. We'll have better information to make a decision about whether to try to save it.

And it wasn't a post nine minutes later- pay attention to AM vs PM....


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Well, stick a fork in 'er.... she's done for. Pulled the PCV hose on the front of the engine and it was blocked solid with sludge. Pulled the plug wires, and all were swimming in oil. I used a screwdriver and several dish towels to soak up as much of the oil as I could. Then I got a spark plug socket and repeatedly stuck it down around the plug, dipping it in the remaining oil and wiping it off over and over again until I was satisfied that very little oil remained in the plug wells. 

I took out all the plugs, removed the fuel pump fuse, and did a compression test. Results:

1: No pressure, very small hits on the gauge.
2: No pressure, very small hits on the gauge.
3: Absolutely nothing. The engine sounded the same as if no plugs or gauge were installed.
4: 150 PSI
5: 175 PSI
6: 140 PSI

I figured, given the compression test results, that the timing chain under the valve cover had either slipped off a gear or broken. The "no communication" (open or short to positive) code from the camshaft position sensor reinforced this theory. I pulled the camshaft position sensor and bumped the engine and the trigger wheel never moved. Broken or slipped camshaft chain on Bank 1 confirmed. 

Given all the other problems- massive engine oil sludge, destroyed PCV system, unknown interval since last timing belt change, bad MAF sensor, both O2 sensors bad, valve cover gaskets replacement required, and now the high potential that the intake valves on Bank 1 have contacted the pistons and bent or broken, I told her to junk the car. At 152K miles with these problems, it isn't worth saving. Sad. I told her I'd charge her $75 labor (ran to her house 3 times @ 30 miles round trip in my F150). She said she'd pay me $100 when she gets the money, which is fair. She's good people. I just wish I could have had better news for her.

My guess would be the failure was caused by severe engine sludge that gummed up the cam chain tensioner, the chain lost tension and either fell off one of the gears or actually broke. The root cause was a lack of proper OCI and/or improper quality/type of oil used.


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

Content was vacated by JACK :heart:


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

[email protected] Parts said:


> I would correct all the vacuum leaks first.
> 
> An easy way to fix those breather pipes is to cut with razor at the connections and run rubber hose clamped.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you saw the post I just made, but the engine is done for.... Look just above your post. Thanks for the suggestions, though.


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

Rebuild?


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Not worth it. She'll put 2X into the engine rebuild vs. what the car is worth. It's junk at this point. A victim of lack of maintenance....


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## stan067 (Feb 25, 2010)

Sorry! 
Good Luck


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