# Navigation not functioning and tutorial on how to remove Navigation Unit



## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

My navigation system does not want to read the nav disks. When I insert a disk it tries to read it and then it spits it out. Suggestions? I found one plug not connected (2nd to last photo, wire wrapped with foam) and two orange wires cut (in black harness) behind the nav unit (last photo). Is this supposed to be this way from the factory? If the wires are not the issue, I'm thinking of taking the nav unit apart to see if there is an issue the cd player linkage or dirty lens.

VAG.com scans included in this link:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-tail-lights-washer-fluid-navigation-windows)

Below is photos showing how to remove the nav unit. One forum suggested you need to remove the CD player and this is not required and much easier ( I did remove the CD player, but it's not necessary). First, remove the plastic tabs on each side of the nav unit. They pop off and have a little hook on them. The come off easy if you use a little force. Second insert a round object into each of the four holes fully to release the spring lock (2 holes on each side where plastic cover was concealing holes). Pull unit out. No special tools needed. I used some allen keys to release the spring lock. You maybe able to use a paper clip, however, I'm not sure if they would be too flexible to undo the spring lock.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> My navigation system does not want to read the nav disks. When I insert a disk it tries to read it and then it spits it out. Suggestions? I found one plug not connected (2nd to last photo, wire wrapped with foam) and two orange wires cut (in black harness) behind the nav unit (last photo). Is this supposed to be this way from the factory? If the wires are not the issue, I'm thinking of taking the nav unit apart to see if there is an issue the cd player linkage or dirty lens.


It looks like somebody has been messing with it.

The orange "wires" are optical fibers. It is a MOST optical bus between the nav unit and the infotainment display J523. It looks like the original pair in the main wiring harness have been cut and a new pair has been run independently. 

I am a bit stumped by the hanging connector. I'm not sure what it would go to, and I've not needed to remove my own nav computer so I'm not sure what's back there. There's an upper connector housing on the navigation computer with nothing plugged into it, but I checked a repair manual reference and it's made clear the connector isn't used at all on the Phaeton. It might do something on Phaetons with rare or discontinued options (there's several options seen in old documents that have never been seen in a car I know of) or perhaps on Bentleys that share that same harness.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

I think the extra connector is not used. It was wrapped in foam and not exposed. I remember seeing something similar on my girlfriends A4 where there was a cd changer plug in the trunk wrapped in foam but she didn't have a cd changer. Guessing the nav unit had issues before. Thanks for explaining those orange wires are fiber optics. That makes sense. One of the "new" fiber optics were illuminated when I unplugged it so I'm guessing its properly hooked up to the main head unit. One fiber optic was not illuminated but I'm guessing that for the nav unit in the glove box to send a signal to the head unit. 

I'm going to pull the cover off the nav unit. Maybe someone shoved a sandwich in the CD slot instead of a CD. I actually picked up a used cd changer for the A4 from a salvage yard which didn't work. Took it apart, lubed a few things up, cleaned the lens and it worked. Maybe I can work my magic on the nav unit.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> Thanks for explaining those orange wires are fiber optics. That makes sense. One of the "new" fiber optics were illuminated when I unplugged it so I'm guessing its properly hooked up to the main head unit. One fiber optic was not illuminated but I'm guessing that for the nav unit in the glove box to send a signal to the head unit.


Correct, they are transmit/receive respectively.

The laser (or LED) drivers in this particular application aren't all that powerful, but if you value your vision, aiming lit optical fibers into your eye is not a good habit to form. Just a heads up. 

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

I just noticed that this Nav unit was manufactured June 2005. It must of been replaced because my car is a 2004. I recall seeing an issue where the software of the nav must match the software of the head unit. Perhaps the software is not compatible and whoever was messing with this never got it to work. I'm going to hold off on opening up the nav until I can find that thread.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> I just noticed that this Nav unit was manufactured June 2005. It must of been replaced because my car is a 2004. I recall seeing an issue where the software of the nav must match the software of the head unit. Perhaps the software is not compatible and whoever was messing with this never got it to work. I'm going to hold off on opening up the nav until I can find that thread.


That is a very valid question, and it's another sign your navigation has been tampered with. However, your VCDS scan shows a valid pair of software versions.



Phaeton2 said:


> address 07 Control Head
> 
> Control Module Part Number: 3D0 035 008 M
> Component and/or Version: ZAB COCKPIT * 0188*
> ...


Check this post from Michael for a list of approved and supported software combinations.

Jason

PS: I am not actively trying to stalk you tonight, it just looks that way.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Quick question -- are you sure your navigation discs are correct for your car? What do they look like? Are they the original VW-branded set, or the popular current BMW set, or something else? Maybe it's spitting the disc back out for a good reason.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

No harm, I love quick replies. The quicker I figure this out, the quicker I can actually enjoy the car!

Nav discs were missing when I bought the car. I bought some original Phaeton OEM discs from a guy in Canada. Does the year of the disks matter? I've tried different ones and I get the same result.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Try setting the coding to 0400000 instead of the all-zeros value in there currently. We don't have information on what that value means, but it seems to be what most other people with your generation of navigation controller have. It's possible the dealer that replaced it neglected to code it to your car.

If that doesn't work, I'm out of sage advice without being able to touch it in person. Next step for me would be to trade it with another known good nav unit and see if the problem stays or follows.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

What controller address should I reprogram?


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> What controller address should I reprogram?


37 - Navigation.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

jyoung8607 said:


> ...However, your VCDS scan shows a valid pair of software versions.


Steve, Jason:

The software combination of 0188 on the front display unit (controller 07) and 0147 on the navigation CD reader (controller 37) is valid in the sense that the car was shipped out of the factory that way, but it is not 'current' - the software in the CD reader should be flashed up to version 0168. Doing that will get rid of a number of problems, including sluggish operation of the navigation system and - get ready for it: spurious presentation of an 'optical databus fault' on controllers 07 and 37.

Jason, it was very sharp of you to postulate that the optical databus was probably replaced at some point in time (hence the two cut wires). It is unfortunate that the technician who did this work did not simply carry out a software update of the navigation controller - that would have eliminated the fault code without the need to touch the databus itself. It was also very sharp of you to notice the coding error. All nav CD readers in Phaetons (MY 2003 to 2006) are coded the same, 0400000.

Further information on the software update for the nav CD reader can be found here: Navigation System - Updating Navigation Controller software to solve navigation function problems. But, be very careful - if your front information display and control head does not have a hard-key labelled PHONE, then you do not want to update the controller 07 software beyond version 0188. I say that because the software update for the nav CD reader (to 0168) comes on the same CD as the software update for the front information display and control head to 0223. The updates are applied sequentially, first to the nav CD reader, then to the front information display and control head. It takes some experience (usually learned from the school of hard knocks) to know that if the front information display and control head does not have a PHONE hard-key, the technician needs to stop and eject the update CD after the first update (to the nav CD reader) has completed.

Steve, if you have an old, out of date Phaeton nav CD, that will be sufficient for the purpose of function-testing the navigation system. See this post for a discussion explaining how to get an up-to-date navigation CD: Navigation System - obtaining up to date navigation CDs for North America

I think we should start thinking about putting together an Eastern North America get-together this spring. Indianapolis is about halfway between Chicago and Toronto - how about we all meet at Jason's place sometime?

Michael


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

PanEuropean said:


> The software combination of 0188 on the front display unit (controller 07) and 0147 on the navigation CD reader (controller 37) is valid in the sense that the car was shipped out of the factory that way, but it is not 'current' - the software in the CD reader should be flashed up to version 0168. Doing that will get rid of a number of problems, including sluggish operation of the navigation system and - get ready for it: spurious presentation of an 'optical databus fault' on controllers 07 and 37.
> 
> Jason, it was very sharp of you to postulate that the optical databus was probably replaced at some point in time (hence the two cut wires). It is unfortunate that the technician who did this work did not simply carry out a software update of the navigation controller - that would have eliminated the fault code without the need to touch the databus itself. It was also very sharp of you to notice the coding error. All nav CD readers in Phaetons (MY 2003 to 2006) are coded the same, 0400000.


That certainly explains some things. A dealer tech saw the optical databus DTC and didn't know it was a software bug, so they started throwing parts at the problem. It explains the new optical cable, the new navigation computer, and the missing (forgotten) coding.



> Further information on the software update for the nav CD reader can be found here: Navigation System - Updating Navigation Controller software to solve navigation function problems. But, be very careful - if your front information display and control head does not have a hard-key labelled PHONE, then you do not want to update the controller 07 software beyond version 0188. I say that because the software update for the nav CD reader (to 0168) comes on the same CD as the software update for the front information display and control head to 0223. The updates are applied sequentially, first to the nav CD reader, then to the front information display and control head. It takes some experience (usually learned from the school of hard knocks) to know that if the front information display and control head does not have a PHONE hard-key, the technician needs to stop and eject the update CD after the first update (to the nav CD reader) has completed.


I am holding update discs for both the old (0188/0147) and new (0223/0168) versions if anybody ever needs them. The new version was easy enough to find, but I semi-accidentally got the old version too. I was trying to get hold of the update with the RDS fix and/or the 0253 update for Europe and that's what showed up. As far as I know, the units will downgrade as easily as they upgrade, so the old disc might be useful in fixing a mistaken upgrade.

If you are still tight with your dealer, it would be great if you could get hold of the updated software with the RDS fix somehow. I can't get anyone to order it on my behalf.



> I think we should start thinking about putting together an Eastern North America get-together this spring. Indianapolis is about halfway between Chicago and Toronto - how about we all meet at Jason's place sometime?


Absolutely. I don't know too many owners in Cincinnati, but there are a couple in Indianapolis. We managed to get seven people together in Columbus last year, most of whom live in or around Columbus I think.

Jason


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

I would be interested in meeting other Phaeton owners. Great suggestion Michael! Keep me in the loop! Not sure how I'll find everyone without my nav, ha ha. Jason, If I can get a copy of those disks I would rather update it myself than have to pay the dealer to fix the problem (as I have no clue which dealer messed it up in the first place and certainly, the car was not serviced in Chicago from my records). I could probably find an ftp site to upload the files. 

Ironically, there are two Phaetons parked within 200 ft where I live. One is my neighbor which I've yet to tell that I just bought one like his but in Blue.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> Jason, If I can get a copy of those disks I would rather update it myself than have to pay the dealer to fix the problem (as I have no clue which dealer messed it up in the first place and certainly, the car was not serviced in Chicago from my records). I could probably find an ftp site to upload the files.


I have a place I can host ISOs. However, I'll have to see if burned copies of the disc will work. I believe it can be done, but the format is non-standard and may require some care. If all else fails, I'm willing to loan them out via US Mail.

You'll need the newer disc for the newer navigation computer software. However, I have never actually gone through the upgrade process, so I'm not sure how to upgrade the navigation computer _without_ upgrading the infotainment display. *Michael,* do you know how to safely stop in the middle? Is there a prompt?

Jason


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## sean_m (Oct 6, 2010)

jyoung8607 said:


> I have a place I can host ISOs. However, I'll have to see if burned copies of the disc will work. I believe it can be done, but the format is non-standard and may require some care. If all else fails, I'm willing to loan them out via US Mail.
> 
> Jason


I keep CD-R copies of 2011 BMW nav CDs in the car, with the originals stored at my house. I copied them with ImgBurn, saving them as .bin files, which also creates a .cue file alongside the .bin file. It may work saving them as .iso, but the .bin format is a more complete copy and is bit-for-bit. I think that should work for any CD outside of something with serious copy protection.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

jyoung8607 said:


> *Michael,* do you know how to safely stop in the middle? Is there a prompt?


Hi Jason:

Jeepers, the last time I did one of these software flashes was about 8 years ago, at David Cowan's GTG in Alabama. I am pretty sure that there is a prompt - a pause - in the middle between the two updates.

Below is a picture of the CD that will provide an update to Controller 07 version 0223 and Controller 37 version 0168. This CD is available for order from a VW dealer, just provide the part number shown on the CD. Jason, the earlier version CD you have - the one that loads version 0188 into Controller 07 - is an extremely valuable and extremely rare CD, I suggest you not let that one out of your possession. That CD is the only way one can "revert" an early production (no PHONE hard-key) J523 back to the correct button assignments.

Below the image of the CD are some photos of what appears on the screen when the software is loading. The whole process takes about 45 minutes. It is essential that a battery maintainer be hooked up during the process, because the car will not accept the software load if the engine is running. The photos below DO NOT comprise a complete set of instructions for carrying out the update!

*The CD that updates to 0223/0168*


*The first screen that appears*


*The message to turn off the ignition (hence the need for a battery maintainer)
*

*The numbers in the left column decrement downward as the update progresses
*​

All things considered, I think it would be safest to wait until both Steve and I can make it to your place (Jason's place) some weekend before this update is carried out. That way, both CDs will be available, I will be there (I've done the update before, although a long time ago), and we can make sure no other problems exist before going ahead with this update.

Steve, have you been able to determine the software version in your instrument cluster (controller 17)?

Michael


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Is this the information you are looking for?

address 17

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US




Control Module Part Number: 3D0 920 981 A

Component and/or Version: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0321

Software Coding: 0007221

Work Shop Code: WSC 03055


I don't mind waiting to update later in the spring at a club meetup. I'm more curious than anything just to see how the navigation system works. I'm betting my Portable Garmin GPS is way better, but it would be nice not to need to set it up each time. I really need to focus in fixing my washer pumps and headlights first. Those items are preventing me from driving far from home out of the fear of running into bad weather. I believe the headlights are just the bulbs or ignitors which parts are on order. The washer pumps are a bit of a mystery... Oh and finding that darn temp sensor would be nice. If you haven't seen it you need to check out the video I posted in my other thread of a guy trying to find one. It's hilarious. Found that gem trying to figure out my sensor location.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

PanEuropean said:


> Below is a picture of the CD that will provide an update to Controller 07 version 0223 and Controller 37 version 0168. This CD is available for order from a VW dealer, just provide the part number shown on the CD. Jason, the earlier version CD you have - the one that loads version 0188 into Controller 07 - is an extremely valuable and extremely rare CD, I suggest you not let that one out of your possession. That CD is the only way one can "revert" an early production (no PHONE hard-key) J523 back to the correct button assignments.


It turns out you can order it without too much trouble. It's VW part number 3D0 919 27*7*. When I ordered it, the dealer mentioned that it happened to be "the last one in North America". Hopefully that just means they take awhile to show up from Germany instead. When I get a Round Tuit I'll burn a copy of each and see if my nav computer recognizes them. If so, I'll see about making them available.











What I was really trying to find was the current European firmware 0253. I have a theory the 2007+ J523 hardware is more-or-less identical and we might be able to upgrade our North American units. If it works, it might let us upgrade to the less embarassingly-bad DVD-based nav computer.

I would also like to find the mythical PhaetonNavSW9923 disc with the RDS fix. I have talked to a couple of dealers and it doesn't seem to be something they can order for me. It's not considered a VW part, it's considered a VW tool from the dealer-only tools catalog. I may have to pay my dealer four hours of labor to watch a disc spin so they will order it. If I can bribe the tech to let me copy it, perhaps I can take up a collection on VWVortex to pay for it. 

Jason


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## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

jyoung8607 said:


> What I was really trying to find was the current European firmware 0253. I have a theory the 2007+ J523 hardware is more-or-less identical and we might be able to upgrade our North American units. If it works, it might let us upgrade to the less embarassingly-bad DVD-based nav computer.


Now that sure sounds interesting!

Steven


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

StevenFT said:


> Now that sure sounds interesting!


No promises of course, but I have optimism.

I spent some quality time with the 0223 disc last year. The disc format and computers themselves bear a strong similarity to those used in older BMWs. They have a lot of fascinating info and managed some clever hacks, like replacing the startup splash screen and certain bits of text. Their tools for doing this don't quite work on ours, but they get close, enough to learn quite a bit.

The disc is actually a unified build for European Phaetons, North American Phaetons, and Bentleys. The car picks which version it wants out of the right directory. I'm sorely tempted to just switch the 611VW01 and 611VW02 directories and see what happens. If I could ditch the navigation warnings and un-cripple the TPMS system in exchange for breaking AM radio reception that I never use anyway, I know which one I'd take.

Jason


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

sean_m said:


> I keep CD-R copies of 2011 BMW nav CDs in the car, with the originals stored at my house. I copied them with ImgBurn, saving them as .bin files, which also creates a .cue file alongside the .bin file. It may work saving them as .iso, but the .bin format is a more complete copy and is bit-for-bit. I think that should work for any CD outside of something with serious copy protection.


Good tip, I will bear that in mind. I don't believe there's copy protection involved. It's just a non-MSDOS file system from whatever little embedded UNIX they use.

Jason


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Phaeton2 said:


> Is this the information you are looking for?


Hi Steve:

Yes - I just wanted to make sure you had the latest software version in your instrument cluster - you do (software number ending in 21), that is very good news.



jyoung8607 said:


> What I was really trying to find was the current European firmware 0253.


Hi Jason:

I tried to get that one several years ago, and went so far as to go to the basement of the factory in Dresden to talk to the electronics guys there. It seems that by the time VW released 0253, VW had moved away from distributing software updates (of any kind) on physical media, and that update is only available over the VW intranet when a dealer hooks up their VAS 5051, 5052, or 5053 to the intranet. The problem we have is that version 0253 was not released to the North American market, therefore we cannot get it even if we have a super-cooperative VW dealer.



jyoung8607 said:


> I'm sorely tempted to just switch the 611VW01 and 611VW02 directories and see what happens.


I don't know if that would work or not. I believe that the ROW J523 units are different from the NAR ones. I know that they have different buttons on them, because I have a ROW one installed in my car. Note the TV and traffic program. buttons in the lower right area.

*European J523
*

But - I happen to have a spare NAR J523 in my private parts stash - I could bring it down to your place, and we could load the European software update into it - if it kills it, no harm done, and if it works, then you could do the update to your own car.

Interesting to see that they code the software for the Phaetons as "VW 611" - I think I've seen that number somewhere before...

*Michael's Car
*


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Wow, Michael looks like your famous over at VW!

I've added some additional diagnostic info at my other post. I believe I have the taillight short fixed and the temp sensor figured out (but not repaired yet). Still stumped on the washer bottle issue and the rain and light sensor code. If anyone could take a moment and give advice I would appreciate it. Planning to work on the car and hopefully fixing everything major on Saturday. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6897382-New-Owner-several-electical-problems-(headlight-tail-lights-washer-fluid-navigation-windows)


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

sean_m said:


> I keep CD-R copies of 2011 BMW nav CDs in the car, with the originals stored at my house. I copied them with ImgBurn, saving them as .bin files, which also creates a .cue file alongside the .bin file. It may work saving them as .iso, but the .bin format is a more complete copy and is bit-for-bit. I think that should work for any CD outside of something with serious copy protection.


I did the same thing when my nav unit was playing up and eating discs.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Phaeton2 said:


> I don't mind waiting to update later in the spring at a club meetup.


I will get the images up sometime this weekend. It would really be best if Michael were available, but it's your car and eBay/salvage units are getting cheaper all the time. 



Phaeton2 said:


> I'm more curious than anything just to see how the navigation system works. I'm betting my Portable Garmin GPS is way better, but it would be nice not to need to set it up each time.


The Phaeton navigation software is garbage. I say that as a Phaeton cheerleader and general water-carrier for all things VW. Once you find your destination, it'll navigate you there quite well. However, looking up your destination is a real chore. I'm sure it was at the forefront of technology in 2001-2002 when it was developed, but it doesn't hold a candle to the very cheapest smartphone you could buy today, much less a dedicated unit.

For larger metro areas, it has an odd insistence on selecting destinations by county. It might be how Europeans get around but here in the USA we either go by city or zip-code. When I'm entering an address I want to go to, I haven't got any idea what _county_ it's in. I have to guess-and-check quite a bit. Even then, I've not been impressed by its ability to (correctly) locate addresses on a given road. And, heaven help you if you're planning a cross-country trip using multiple CDs. I recently had a trip from St. Louis, Missouri to Century, Florida which spanned three CDs. I would have been on the road two or three hours longer if I took its route, because it can only consider the most major interstate highways in that situation.

I use the Phaeton's navigation for long trips because I like the user interface _while driving_. I like to keep an eye on next-turns and how far I have left to go without taking my attention far away from the road. While cruising on long highway stretches I find it useful to keep a zoomed-out full-screen map up with the next turn reminder in the instrument cluster. I do mostly trust it for return trips because I know it knows how to find my home. However, if I'm headed someplace I haven't been to before, I sanity check with Google Maps first. And when I arrive in the general area, I pull out my smartphone for "terminal guidance".



Phaeton2 said:


> I really need to focus in fixing my washer pumps and headlights first. Those items are preventing me from driving far from home out of the fear of running into bad weather. I believe the headlights are just the bulbs or ignitors which parts are on order. The washer pumps are a bit of a mystery... Oh and finding that darn temp sensor would be nice. If you haven't seen it you need to check out the video I posted in my other thread of a guy trying to find one. It's hilarious. Found that gem trying to figure out my sensor location.


I have some comments on your coolant and washer pump issues that I will try to post in the next day or two. For the time being, you're on the right track finding your coolant temp sensor, you just need to go down a bit. It'll be on a metal pipe going between the two cylinder heads. It'll be underneath the large black intake duct on the driver's side. That video you posted for the V6 (an architectural cousin of the V8) gives you a sense of how deep down it'll be, it's just on the other side according to the repair manual I have here.

Jason


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That county grouping is a PITA. I don't know about the rest of Europe, but in the UK you wouldn't find something by county either, it'd be either town or postcode. Having said that, I've used much more modern touchscreen units in rental cars that take just as much time to program, and which are even more difficult to deal with on the go because of the touchscreen interface. I don't think the VW software is that far from being good, all it really requires is to be able to start at either a zip code or a city/state when searching. The problem of having to use multiple cds for long journeys is a hardware issue, and is presumably why they switched to dvd.


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

PanEuropean said:


> Hi Jason:
> 
> I tried to get that one several years ago, and went so far as to go to the basement of the factory in Dresden to talk to the electronics guys there. It seems that by the time VW released 0253, VW had moved away from distributing software updates (of any kind) on physical media, and that update is only available over the VW intranet when a dealer hooks up their VAS 5051, 5052, or 5053 to the intranet. The problem we have is that version 0253 was not released to the North American market, therefore we cannot get it even if we have a super-cooperative VW dealer.


Hmm, okay. I had hopes based on some things I saw in ETKA but maybe there's nothing to be done.

There are several discs we haven't seen yet. They are only in the European catalog. I was going to ask if one of our European friends could order them on our behalf so we could see what they are, but it looks like Chris is already on it. I will PM him a request to share what he found.



> I don't know if that would work or not. I believe that the ROW J523 units are different from the NAR ones. I know that they have different buttons on them, because I have a ROW one installed in my car. Note the TV and traffic program. buttons in the lower right area.


They do like to move buttons around, but we've witnessed how much the hardware cares with the 0188/0223 debacle in NAR. I would be willing to live with those couple buttons moved around. They switch the buttons around again for the 2007+ units. I poked around and found some VCDS scans. They're running stuff with 22XX version IDs, so they may not be quite as identical as I hoped, but I'd still like to look.



> But - I happen to have a spare NAR J523 in my private parts stash - I could bring it down to your place, and we could load the European software update into it - if it kills it, no harm done, and if it works, then you could do the update to your own car.


I appreciate the offer. I'm still researching, and I'm not yet to the point where I have something flash-able. I'm not completely confident I ever will be.

My impression right now is these units all have identical guts, at least prior to 2007+. I think they're told what part number they are in software, someone slaps a vehicle-specific face-plate and button-set on the front, and then they get shipped off. It makes sense and it would save design costs. The only _hardware_ they could possibly pull out of a NAR unit would be video/audio IN for TV, and that would be more trouble than it's worth. All the expensive stuff is in that separate optional module. RDS-TMC looks like it's there and the cost is trivial. Everything else is done in software over CAN.

There are five builds on the disc, with a sixth mentioned indirectly. There are some interesting text release-notes on the disc too. I'll scrape those and put them up somewhere.

611VW01 - Phaeton RoW (definite)
611VW02 - Phaeton NAR (definite)
611VW03 - Doesn't exist on the disc, but mentioned in a couple places - possibly future/intended for Japan
61xBY01 - Bentley, presumed RoW
61xBY02 - Bentley, presumed NAR
61xBY03 - Bentley, Japan (definite, mentioned in the release notes)

I MD5-summed every file on the disk. The 611VW01 and 611VW02 builds are almost entirely identical. There are separate modules for various functions. The languages, AM/FM radio, RDS-TMC (NAR has it too!), navigation computer and (what I think is) the J523 user-interface stuff are bit-for-bit identical. The NAR stuff actually does contain text strings referring to functions I know are only available in Europe, and there are references to different NAR/RoW behaviors in the release notes. The only difference I've found so far is an added "CSI" module on the European side. I haven't been able to discover what its function or meaning is yet. Perhaps something to do with analog/digital TV?

There are a bunch of test and diagnostic utilities, and a reference to a login/shell type service. There are also references to a NVRAM config storage area. Unfortunately it's hard to run or even de-compile the code offline as Microware OS-9 on MIPS isn't exactly a common platform. I may pull my J523 out and see if I can locate something that looks like a TTL/RS232 serial console. 

Jason


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

PanEuropean said:


>





PanEuropean said:


>


So, when will we be seeing your parking heater retrofit write-up?  Used Phaeton Webastos are going for $reasonable on eBay.

The no-lettering look has been growing on me over time. I may do that in the spring.

Jason


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Phaeton2 said:


> I'm more curious than anything just to see how the navigation system works. I'm betting my Portable Garmin GPS is way better, but it would be nice not to need to set it up each time.


Hi Steve:

Jason is right on the money with his assessment of the Phaeton nav system (post #26). The Phaeton nav system was absolutly leading-edge when it was introduced in the fall of 2002, with the release of the MY 2003 Phaetons, but heck, it's 12 years old now. Any Garmin handheld will do a much better job. Be grateful you have a V8 car, because those of us with W12s need an external GPS antenna if we want to use a handheld (the metallized windshield in the W12s attenuates the GPS satellite constellation signals).



jyoung8607 said:


> So, when will we be seeing your parking heater retrofit write-up?


Hi Jason:

I don't think I'll be attempting that - although the installation of the Webasto unit itself is 'straightforward' (though by no means simple), the coolant plumbing changes, cooling system component changes, and the wiring changes necessary to make the pre-heat system work are very significant, and that's without even getting into the remote control functionality. A parking heater retrofit would make the Retrofitting a Television Tuner project look like 'minimal disassembly' by comparison. Plus, I rarely use my car, and I keep it in a heated garage at home. So, if I did that retrofit, I would only make use of the Webasto heater functionality perhaps once every 2 or 3 years.

Right now, my primary concern is trying to breathe some life into my TPMS. I wanted to order a spare controller this past summer, when they were on sale from VW USA for $200, but unfortunately that sale was not in effect in Canada. I think my controller has failed, and even with my dealer offering me the controller at cost, it's still an expensive part (about $450 with all the taxes). I replaced all 9 sensors (4 in my summer tires, 4 in my winter tires, and the spare tire) this year at a horrendous cost, and now the controller is giving me problems. Grrrr...

Michael


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Thanks for the tips. Any chance anyone has been able to give further insight on the washer pump issue on my other thread? I'm planning on working on it today and Sunday. I'm going to recheck the power to the pump and then remove a pump, connect it directly to the battery to see if it works. I'm afraid the issue maybe a blown relay or fuse in the plenum box under the windshield. Are those relays or fuses possible to blow? Computer is detecting the pumps. See my other thread for more info.

Also looking for advice on the light and rain sensor error...see thread for questions.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> There are several discs we haven't seen yet. They are only in the European catalog. I was going to ask if one of our European friends could order them on our behalf so we could see what they are, but it looks like Chris is already on it. I will PM him a request to share what he found.


Hi Jason,

I ordered all the ZAB CD-ROM software versions I listed in post #7 in the thread you linked above, but after about 6 weeks the Netherlands supplier reported that their systems wouldn't keep up the back-order for any longer so they cancelled and refunded. Then I repeated the order with the local (non-Phaeton) VW Parts desk, who got the available CDs after about a month.

Suffix A and suffix C disks are dropped and a reversion or upgrade disk is substituted in the order. This is what is I received in UK from the VW parts catalogue:

3D0 919 278 (the original ROW update containing SW0223/SW0168)
3D0 919 278B (the final ROW update for pre-GP3 cars containing SW0253/SW0188)
3D0 919 278D (for GP3 cars only, containing SW2257/SW2217).

I can read the CD formats for SW0253 and SW2257 and can make ISO files, but I can't get a CD reader to recognise what is going on with SW 0223. I can make a BIN file of it, but have no access to the content.

Cheers,
Chris


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Paximus said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> I ordered all the ZAB CD-ROM software versions I listed in post #7 in the thread you linked above, but after about 6 weeks the Netherlands supplier reported that their systems wouldn't keep up the back-order for any longer so they cancelled and refunded. Then I repeated the order with the local (non-Phaeton) VW Parts desk, who got the available CDs after about a month.
> 
> ...


Hey Chris,

3D0 919 278 (0223/168) is in Philips CD-i / Microware OS-9 format, as is the older 277 update. IsoBuster can mostly interpret the filesystem although I think it's not doing so quite perfectly. Ripping bit-for-bit as .BIN/.CUE is safest as it'll give the receiver's software proper instructions to burn it. Indeed, that might be the safest way to image all of them for later burning.

For 3D0 919 278D, I think you might be referring to GP1 (old style J523 with DVD nav computer) as opposed to GP3 (new RNS810). I'm very interested to see this disc. The file-system of the disc is divided up by hardware version and then by application-ID. So, we should be able to tell immediately if there's any hope for compatibility with our older units.

I'm happy that 3D0 919 278B (0253/0188) is in a more friendly (likely ISO9660) format. That will make it much easier to carry out certain "warranty violations" I am looking at. Among other things, I've found clear references to an End-of-Line production step where the unit is told which VW part number and application ID it should be using.

Jason


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Jason,

I'll have a look at IsoBuster, thanks for the tip.

Have you any knowledge of the Pimp-My-Nav application, that claims to be able to add third-party POIs obtained elsewhere (such as traffic camera lists) to CARiN data sets? Its test utility said this about my Nav data CD:











It might only mean that it adds a new POI folder.

On the 'GP3-only' reference for CD suffix D, I was going by the contents.txt file which simply says "Ensure GP3 hardware is used for download!". So if you are right, it's a CD for the RNS-510 range. It says it's for a Nav unit composed of components CSB and Nav-RR or else for a Nav unit with components CSI, MMI-RR, TM and Radio, but I have no idea what that refers to.

Chris


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

Paximus said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> I'll have a look at IsoBuster, thanks for the tip.
> 
> Have you any knowledge of the Pimp-My-Nav application, that claims to be able to add third-party POIs obtained elsewhere (such as traffic camera lists) to CARiN data sets?


I am aware of its existence but I haven't tried it. I saw it while looking into what the BMW guys do to their cars. If you download and open the firmware images they use for their Mk2 and Mk3 units, it's clear they're related. In the Phaeton firmware there's actually a bunch of references to BMW IBUS. Their NavTweak application almost-kinda works but not really. The third-party POI thing should be safe to experiment with, and it might even work.



> On the 'GP3-only' reference for CD suffix D, I was going by the contents.txt file which simply says "Ensure GP3 hardware is used for download!". So if you are right, it's a CD for the RNS-510 range. It says it's for a Nav unit composed of components CSB and Nav-RR or else for a Nav unit with components CSI, MMI-RR, TM and Radio, but I have no idea what that refers to.


I'm not sure why it would say that. However, the software versions SW2257/SW2217 you mentioned are what people with 2008-era J523 are using according to VCDS auto-scans posted here.

Jason


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Is it not easier to just use your phone for navigation???


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I suspect that there ought to be a configuration file somewhere on the data set CD that would allow me to increase the number of minor roads displayed at a given scale of screen display.

For UK use the minor roads are what I have to drive on, and the present config leaves swathes of blank space until you drill down so much that you lose the town you are headed for!

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Is it not easier to just use your phone for navigation???


I tried that, but the quality of GPS signal and Vodafone Internet data received on the phone when it is hosted in the cigar lighter next to the gear shift seems to cause 1 mile jumps, by which time you are past the turning!

Also, my focus way down there on a 4" screen is not too strong, even wearing driving bifocals. It's impossible to use its touch screen to, for example, divert past a traffic obstruction while driving.

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Does it matter anyway since you can't drive anywhere until you fit an outboard motor?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

It's dry at the moment! (Bambi takes refuge on the lawn sometimes).


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## Phaeton2 (May 18, 2013)

Jason, any luck uploading the CD images? I saw a few other people have done the update so if they can remember the process to update and not affect the instrument display I'll might give it a try. I don't know if I can wait till the spring meetup  Would your other cd revert the instrument display in the event I make a mistake? Of course if there is a high probably of me screw something up, I'll skip. Guess it depends on the quality of information I have about the process.

Also, I saw on one the the Phaeton forums in the sticky where a a person who works for siemens made a quick adjustment on someones Phaeton to improve the navigation (show more detail on the display) by working near the right rear corner of the car if I recall. Allegedly, the nav unit is made by siemens shared with other cars which have a dvd system (which we don't have)? I can't for the life of me find the thread again (as the comment had nothing to do with the tread), so my memory may be off. It doesn't make much sense regardless, but I thought I would throw it out there in case this of any help in your quest to improve the nav system.


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