# 1.8t with 5 speed vs 1.8t with 6 speed



## golferman15 (Feb 14, 2009)

Hey guys hopefully I'm posting this in the right section but I was just curious as to what the benefits of having the 180 horsepower 6 speed transmission compared to the 180 horsepower 5 speed transmission is? How much faster is the 6 speed then the 5 speed given the same skilled drivers with the same exact car? Thanks and feel free to move this post elsewhere. golferman15


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: 1.8t with 5 speed vs 1.8t with 6 speed (golferman15)*

The 5-speed (02j) has "better" ratios for a smaller turbo (k03, i.e. its more flexible) but it is weaker than the 6-speed (02m) - in the end how fast the car is depends on the driver and their driving style. Also, are you talking drag, road course, what?


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## golferman15 (Feb 14, 2009)

mostly just drag, and thanks for the response, your statement makes perfect sense to me cuz I always thought six speeds were used mostly to stay in the optimum power band in high revving motors like rx-8's, Civic Si's, and s2000's instead of "torque" monsters like the 1.8t's and 2.0t's


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

The 02J is better geared for drag... But the syncros are weak.


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## golferman15 (Feb 14, 2009)

thanks khaos, so the best way to save the synchros is to not shift so fast or the wot box with no lift shift?


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (golferman15)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golferman15* »_thanks khaos, so the best way to save the synchros is to not shift so fast or the wot box with no lift shift?

Pretty much. The WOTbox is awesome in that regard... Though a few people (myself included) had the wotbox and ended up with rods shooting through the block...


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Khaos-* »_
Pretty much. The WOTbox is awesome in that regard... Though a few people (myself included) had the wotbox and ended up with rods shooting through the block...

Sorry to hear about that man.


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## 20vpolo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*

Are you saying the WOT box had something to do with the rod going through the block ? Interested I have purchased one 


_Modified by 20vpolo at 12:42 AM 6-16-2009_


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*FV-QR*

the burlyness of the O2M outshines any benefit the O2J's got to offer.


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## golferman15 (Feb 14, 2009)

When us say the burlyness of the 02M outshines any benefit of the 02J, do you mean that it is more durable or what do you mean?


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: (golferman15)*

i had a diff'ed O2J and couldnt keep axles in one piece. doing 80 in 2nd was cool. good for highway pulls. but the 2-3 shift at 7500 wasnt very good. i have an O2M now, havent driven the car yet, but ill shift one more time to have better axles and stronger gears


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (20vpolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vpolo* »_Are you saying the WOT box had something to do with the rod going through the block ? Interested I have purchased one 

_Modified by 20vpolo at 12:42 AM 6-16-2009_

I only have the usual bolt-ons. (chip, FMIC, exhaust) No crazy boost. Installed the WOTbox, shifted, engine started knocking. A little while later it just popped cruising down the HWY. Someone else contacted me saying they and 3 others also had the same issue, basic bolts on + WOTbox, rod through the block.


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (golferman15)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golferman15* »_When us say the burlyness of the 02M outshines any benefit of the 02J, do you mean that it is more durable or what do you mean?

More or less stock 02Ms hold a LOT more power. The 02Js like to grenade with any decent power (300+whp) after a while. Even on stock turbo cars I've seen them let go. The 02M is a buttload stronger, its not bulletproof but you can put down good power for a lot longer without breaking it. 
The gearing on the 6 speed is too short with the stock rev limit and turbo IMO, but I'd still rock one for piece of mind rather than worry about the 02j failing.


_Modified by themachasy at 4:21 PM 6-16-2009_


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*

I had never heard that about the WOTbox, kinda sucks. Why oh why did VW use awesome Mahle pistons and toothpick connecting rods?


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## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

02M is a great transmission for the stock 180HP. Once you start adding power it becomes a power waster mostly due to the F/D. Once you are over 300Whp a switch to a 3.38 F/D will make each gear have to work harder but due to the extra power it will rip through them much better.
I beat the **** out of the 02J. Stock everything with a LSD and bolt kit. My power comes on late so the gears are better capable of handling the torque onset. It is weaker, but not bad. Most damage actually happens with small turbo cars and Vr6 cars. 
If I had the cash i would be in an 02M immediately.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ncsumecheng (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (hypothetical)*

I've broken 2 axle sets (racing axles) on stock turbo on the O2J with a limited slip.
Issue is that the suspension wheel hops, not that the tranny is too weak. I haven't had an issue "yet" with the VF motormounts all way around and upgraded control arm bushes.
Last 2 steps are when Forced Fed releases traction bars and maybe some spherical control arm bearings.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (ncsumecheng)*

H2Sport makes spherical bushings for the a4-chasses VWs http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MI_canuck (Dec 21, 1999)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

Anyone know if you can get a custom 6-speed with the first 5 ratios the same as the 5-speed and having the 6th being a super overdrive for fuel economy during long highway trips?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (MI_canuck)*

HPA makes custom gearsets (which is what you would need for that concept) but a set is $2K+, not including the trans labor (_at least_ another $500)


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (screwball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *screwball* »_the burlyness of the O2M outshines any benefit the O2J's got to offer.

You know, I keep thinking that. Then I get to ride out those huge tall 02J gears and... well... I'm not so sure about your statement.
Then I blow up another transmission and curse you for being right. lol....


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## macosxuser (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (IzVW)*

I <3 my O2J.... 
Parts are cheaper... replacements are cheaper. If you put down a LOT of power OR beat the **** out of your trans... you might want to get an O2m. Otherwise, the O2j does pretty OK.


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## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (macosxuser)*

For the best trans mods out there simply click below
*Click Here!!!*
These transmissions are used in every form of motorsport in highly stressed environments. They are a "pretty penny" to say the least but those who have invested are extremely happy with the outcome.


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Khaos-* »_
I only have the usual bolt-ons. (chip, FMIC, exhaust) No crazy boost. Installed the WOTbox, shifted, engine started knocking. A little while later it just popped cruising down the HWY. Someone else contacted me saying they and 3 others also had the same issue, basic bolts on + WOTbox, rod through the block. 

Yet another reason I am glad I have upgraded rods and Water/Meth.


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_HPA makes custom gearsets (which is what you would need for that concept) but a set is $2K+, not including the trans labor (_at least_ another $500)

HPA doesn't make anything, they give you a euro TDI 02m gearing. Theres a few threads in the quattro/haldex forum about the ratios IIRC, theres a number of different options. OEM is much cheaper than from them.


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## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (IzVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IzVW* »_
Yet another reason I am glad I have upgraded rods and Water/Meth.

If the Wot box is operating like an Anti-lag device even stout rods won't save you over time. If it is retarding timing to the point that you are firing off the spark after the exhaust valves start opening to keep the turbo spooled then when you go back to to normal timing there is a huge harmonic that runs through the Otto cycle for more than a few revs. Let's just say its not easy on any part of the rotating assembly. That's why you don't see it in street cars normally.


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (hypothetical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypothetical* »_
If the Wot box is operating like an Anti-lag device even stout rods won't save you over time. If it is retarding timing to the point that you are firing off the spark after the exhaust valves start opening to keep the turbo spooled then when you go back to to normal timing there is a huge harmonic that runs through the Otto cycle for more than a few revs. Let's just say its not easy on any part of the rotating assembly. That's why you don't see it in street cars normally.
 
It's not true anti lag, it's just two step. and the wot shift. it's the latter that would have caused issues.


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## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (-Khaos-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-Khaos-* »_ 
It's not true anti lag, it's just two step. and the wot shift. it's the latter that would have caused issues. 

Off topic still but: True two-step is a better solution for launching. Can one turn off the WOT shifting or is all on all the time?


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## greek 1.8t (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: (hypothetical)*

after searching the uk i got me a 02m fwd, turns out its from a tdi though code eer. i got the ratios and im gonna give it a try see how it is.
with 18s @ 8500rpm
1=48
2=78
3=110
4=142
5=175
6=210


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## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (greek 1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greek 1.8t* »_after searching the uk i got me a 02m fwd, turns out its from a tdi though code eer. i got the ratios and im gonna give it a try see how it is.
with 18s @ 8500rpm
1=48
2=78
3=110
4=142
5=175
6=210

Those numbers are look great fro drag racing. Low boost in first the high boost rest of the way... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## themachasy (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (greek 1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greek 1.8t* »_
with 18s 

24.5" tire?


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## zerb (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (greek 1.8t)*

that sounds like the ratios from a DRW tranny out of a euro diesel.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (themachasy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *themachasy* »_HPA doesn't make anything, they give you a euro TDI 02m gearing. Theres a few threads in the quattro/haldex forum about the ratios IIRC, theres a number of different options. OEM is much cheaper than from them.

Ok, didn't know that, thanks for the clarification http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## -Khaos- (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (hypothetical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypothetical* »_
Off topic still but: True two-step is a better solution for launching. Can one turn off the WOT shifting or is all on all the time?


Yes, you can disable one or the other IIRC.


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## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

*Re: 1.8t with 5 speed vs 1.8t with 6 speed (golferman15)*

O2J is strong enough as long as you don't beat on it all the time and shift properly. I can make you a bet that most of the people here that had their O2J's crap out, use to beat the crap out of it or have no clue how to shift. I have had my o2j on BT daily driven for 2 years now without any problems whatsoever. Although i do agree that the O2M is a stronger tranny i think the o2j's can hold their own, and not worth the replacement. My 2 cents http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

In all honesty, what makes the 02m stronger than the 02j? Are the gears of different material, different size? Are the diff's different too?


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## bakana (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (hypothetical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypothetical* »_For the best trans mods out there simply click below
*Click Here!!!*
These transmissions are used in every form of motorsport in highly stressed environments. They are a "pretty penny" to say the least but those who have invested are extremely happy with the outcome.

You sir are my new HERO! Too bad the 02M gear kit is only for the 3 shaft. Guess that means im making the Jetta my daily and putting the R back on DEFCON 4


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