# crew219's Suzuka Grey TT RS build



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

I recently purchased a 2013 Audi TT RS to replace my totaled 2006 Audi A3 with an APR Stage IV package. It was my intention for the A3 to become a daily driver with the TT RS as a secondary vehicle, but given the circumstances, the RS is now my daily driver. More impressions on that later.

Since the RS is no longer made, looking for a clean second-hand vehicle was difficult. Luckily I found one at Audi Wilsonville in Oregon. They had a clean CPO Suzuka Grey RS up there with 7000 miles and plenty of pictures. After speaking with both the salesman Anton Robinson and their internet sales manager Josh Jeffries, I booked a flight to PDX to look at and acquire the car. 

*Audi Wilsonville*

















Frankly the car was in better condition than described. The previous owner took immaculate care of the RS and had clear-bra already installed on the vehicle. The service manager was quick to run the vehicle’s history and answer any questions I had regarding it’s service and recalls performed, and even notified me that the PO had purchased Audi Care (another perk!). Everything went smoothly with the paperwork and I was in and out of the dealership within an hour. Couldn’t be any happier with my experience at Audi Wilsonville. 

I immediately drove the vehicle back to California the next day without issue and the wonderfully winding mountain roads of I-5 was a nice proving ground for the TT RS’s capabilities. Without a doubt, in stock form the RS’s power delivery was much stronger than that of my Stage 3 FSI A3 (didn’t get to experience Stage IV). The comfort was also an upgrade as the TT RS factory seats were far more comfortable than the sport seats in the A3. Magnetic ride is a bit harsh for all conditions except the smoothest roads, so the majority of the drive was done with sport-mode “off”.

Overall, I’ve had the vehicle for about a month before starting this thread and I have nothing but positive things to say about TT RS ownership. Despite things not working out with the A3, I have nothing but praise and respect for those who put in plenty of time in delivering a great product. From APR, Stephen Hooks, Johnny Petrina, Joel McKay, Joel Schurtz, Sean Mollet, Eric Urness, Jamie Harvey, Grant Batten, Tim Wignall, Evan Light and Conan Scanlan (for keeping things lighthearted throughout the process). I also received plenty of support from the guys at Pure Motorsport, namely the owner Michael Kim, Andrew and Derek. James Schultz from Opelika Auto Spa did an amazing job detailing the A3 for delivery. Rich Jhong (brungold) saved me in the 11th hour by taking / swapping over many parts from the A3. Many thanks to all in helping me close out one chapter and move onto the next. I will be using this thread to chronicle future maintenance, modifications and hopefully throw in a DIY or two. I look forward to interacting with other owners here and on the QW forums.

Dave

*Stage IV in progress*

















*Totaled*









*Crappy Instagram early-ownership photos below*


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Future modifications:*
OEM RNS-E navigation
Stoptech brake pads 
Powerflex torque insert
MSS-Springs (haven’t decided which)
Engine remap, stage 1 or stage 2
Downpipe
…and more when I think of it

/placeholder


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

Congrats on your purchase, beautiful car.:beer:

Sorry for your loss of the A3.


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

Love the new hotness man.


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

sweet looking car! love these in white and light grey. Sorry about the A3

I'm going to look into doing the torque insert. Seems like it could be fairly worthwhile. Had it on your A3?


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## bull30 (Jun 15, 2008)

Congrats on your purchase... Don't over-rev the engine... TTRS's don't like that much... There are bunches of them with engine rebuilds... One shop in Vegas has rebuilt 13 so far... Something about the bearing tolerances being extremely close compared to other Audi engines and oil starvation... Rule of thumb, keep it under the red line!!!

I love my TTRS


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

Looking forward to seeing the progress on this new car. Congrats again!


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## RRF985 (Jun 7, 2006)

Congrats on getting the RS! Sorry to see the A3 end that way. Good luck with the new ride. Look forward to seeing what you do with it. :thumbup:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

JGreen76 said:


> Congrats on your purchase, beautiful car.:beer:





Ponto said:


> Love the new hotness man.





Fined said:


> sweet looking car! love these in white and light grey. Sorry about the A3





JRutter said:


> Looking forward to seeing the progress on this new car. Congrats again!





RRF985 said:


> Congrats on getting the RS! Sorry to see the A3 end that way. Good luck with the new ride. Look forward to seeing what you do with it. :thumbup:


Thanks for all the compliments! I'm fortunate enough to have everything work out both logistically and financially at the same time. Still amazed by how quickly the entire process moved.



Fined said:


> I'm going to look into doing the torque insert. Seems like it could be fairly worthwhile. Had it on your A3?


Had a torque insert on the A3 as well as full pendulum mount, then VF mounts, 034 mounts, VWR mounts etc. Overall, I liked the pendulum upgrade + insert the most. I'm actually looking to try out a slightly different insert from Superpro. Unlike other inserts it is half as long but fills more of the gap in the lower half of the subframe mount. I'll get it installed and post my impressions. 

Here are a few of the things I've recently purchased that will make it into the car shortly.





















bull30 said:


> Congrats on your purchase... Don't over-rev the engine... TTRS's don't like that much... There are bunches of them with engine rebuilds... One shop in Vegas has rebuilt 13 so far... Something about the bearing tolerances being extremely close compared to other Audi engines and oil starvation... Rule of thumb, keep it under the red line!!!
> 
> I love my TTRS


Fortunately I'm not an aggressive driver. I'll be playing around with different oils and using UOAs to find a good interval / oil for this engine. I saw that someone else has had good success with Castrol 0w30, which is great since I have 40+ quarts of it hoarded... :laugh: First full oil change will receive Pennzoil Ultra 5w40. 

Dave


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

crew219 said:


> Here are a few of the things I've recently purchased that will make it into the car shortly.
> 
> 
> Fortunately I'm not an aggressive driver. I'll be playing around with different oils and using UOAs to find a good interval / oil for this engine. I saw that someone else has had good success with Castrol 0w30, which is great since I have 40+ quarts of it hoarded... :laugh: First full oil change will receive Pennzoil Ultra 5w40.
> ...


That oil filter drain tool is so awesome! Makes changes much more convenient. Just make sure you lube the brass threads with oil before using otherwise it has a tendency to bite into the plastic threads. Your filter housing may be different but that style filter wrench may be too small. I think when I bought one based on published specs it was smaller than what we actually have. 

You'll also need an M8 triple square for one screw on the undertray. Oh, and they also take a lot of oil. I think I've filled just over 7qts a couple of times.
http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?5600100-TTRS-oil-change

I've been using the German Castrol 0-30 and have UOAs from 500 miles on, I like it so far. I still get Castrol 5-40 dealer fill (at Audi Wilsonville no less) for the Audi covered intervals.
http://www.lz7w.com/gallery3/index.php/ttrsmods/statistics


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

JohnLZ7W said:


> That oil filter drain tool is so awesome! Makes changes much more convenient. Just make sure you lube the brass threads with oil before using otherwise it has a tendency to bite into the plastic threads. Your filter housing may be different but that style filter wrench may be too small. I think when I bought one based on published specs it was smaller than what we actually have.
> 
> You'll also need an M8 triple square for one screw on the undertray. Oh, and they also take a lot of oil. I think I've filled just over 7qts a couple of times.
> http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?5600100-TTRS-oil-change
> ...


:thumbup:

I saw your posting in this thread and purchased the appropriate filter wrench to accommodate the housing. Thanks!

If you like GC, there's a newer 0w40 Castrol European formula which is based off the same base stock as the 0w30 GC. Interestingly enough, Walmart started carrying it in 5qt jugs. Several Autozones around me have it in single quarts. I'll most likely try it after my stock of GC runs out.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Welcome! Looks like you are all set. Please post pics and impressions of the Superpro insert when you install it.


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## [KRAFTIG] (Jan 27, 2014)

Welcome to the fold.


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## jordnalos (Nov 19, 2009)

Dang sorry bout the APR paperweight getting totalled, but that TTRS is exactly what id have gotten w/ tech pkg. Cant wait to see work done on it


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Sad and Incredible all in one thread!
Awesome pickup! Very jealous. It's the route I should have gone last summer. 

Looking forward to this journey!!!
Best of luck with the RS.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Another part to consider (apologies in advance to your wallet):


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

bull30 said:


> Congrats on your purchase... Don't over-rev the engine... TTRS's don't like that much... There are bunches of them with engine rebuilds... One shop in Vegas has rebuilt 13 so far... Something about the bearing tolerances being extremely close compared to other Audi engines and oil starvation... Rule of thumb, keep it under the red line!!!
> 
> I love my TTRS


13 at one shop!?!?!? WTH! Why hasn't this been shared widely in the forums?


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Black BeauTTy said:


> 13 at one shop!?!?!? WTH! Why hasn't this been shared widely in the forums?


Do any of the shops or vendors on this forum know anything about there being that many TT-RS engine problems?

The 2.5L TFSI engine isn't new at this point, considering how long they have been sold in Europe. I haven't read anything about issues with this engine across a good number of US and European sites.

What is the name of this shop in Vegas? I would be interested in calling them to get their take.

Per URHank (spelling?) who builds up the 5 cylinder VW/Audi engines for old quatros, the engine design has no issues running over 7000rpm, as long as the turbo and such doesn't choke off the air flow.

Can anyone else add to this topic?


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

That is my shop in Vegas. Feel free to send me a message and I can talk. These are my thoughts of clarity:

We have not done 13. We have done several ttrs motors, and advised in others and been contacted in several others.. We have done several built 600whp port injected 2.5L engines that share the same rod and main bearing clearances. It is my opinion that the rod bearings are too tight on the tfsi 2.5 and the port injected 2.5L. The tfsi failures can partially be blamed on a heavy rotating assembly as well, as most failed rod bearing situations also have stretched rod bolts. Missing a shift and over rev of these motors with heavy pistons and 22mm wrist pins is catastrophic. I have not heard of any other ttrs spinning rod bearings outside of miss shifts. The one on this forum last week is the first I've heard. 

These motors share the same valve spring, retainers and other valve train as the Gallardo and other NA 8500 rpm motors, but they all have tiny pistons with smaller rods and wrist pins. Those motors have bigger rod bearing clearances. It is my opinion that upgraded rods with arp2000 rod bolts make these motors 8200 rpm safe and doing pistons can get you to 9600 on the stock oil pump with upgraded valve springs. There aren't TTRS cams to make power up there though so for now it is a pipe dream. The motors are stout, they were just designed as a torque monsters that were done by 5500 rpm. It is obvious when looking at the clearances, rod bolts, extremely heavy pistons and ring land positions. If the desire is to rev, those are all items that are easily replaced. 

I wouldn't put anything 0 weight in these motors. That is playing with fire.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

Ps. Nice car


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

URHank said:


> That is my shop in Vegas. Feel free to send me a message and I can talk. These are my thoughts of clarity:
> 
> We have not done 13. We have done several ttrs motors, and advised in others and been contacted in several others.. We have done several built 600whp port injected 2.5L engines that share the same rod and main bearing clearances. It is my opinion that the rod bearings are too tight on the tfsi 2.5 and the port injected 2.5L. The tfsi failures can partially be blamed on a heavy rotating assembly as well, as most failed rod bearing situations also have stretched rod bolts. Missing a shift and over rev of these motors with heavy pistons and 22mm wrist pins is catastrophic. I have not heard of any other ttrs spinning rod bearings outside of miss shifts. The one on this forum last week is the first I've heard.
> 
> ...


Thanks for chiming in, Hank. Always love reading your posts. What is the purpose of tighter main bearing clearances in the first place from Audi? 

Does the motor have to come out to swap rods, or can the pistons be R&R'd from below?


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks for the detailed reply URHank. Do you have a recommendation on oil for the OEM TT-RS 2.5L engine to minimize chances of rod bearing problems? I am a bit surprised by your comment about 0 weight oils, as Mobil 1 0w-40 European formula is a well regarded oil which meets the VAG standards and compares well to other oils going by info on the BITOG forums. I don't own stock in Mobil, so would be happy to run a different oil if you have first hand experience with what works and what doesn't. 

Regarding upgrading the rods for 8600rpm, I take it that option would be with the stock wrist pin size, since that is with stock type pistons? 

What size wrist pins do you specify in your builds with a fully custom rod/piston combination? 

Thank you 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Zero weight oil is not good for motors, its good for fuel mileage that manufacturers have to meet.

"The change can be surprising for drivers accustomed to the heavier or “thicker” 10W-30 and 10W-40 many cars have used for decades. But changing to ligher oil can help engines run more efficiently and provide better fuel economybecause it generates less resistance compared with heavier, higher-viscosity oil. And nearly every car maker is trying to improve fuel economy."


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## bull30 (Jun 15, 2008)

URHank said:


> That is my shop in Vegas. Feel free to send me a message and I can talk. These are my thoughts of clarity:
> 
> We have not done 13. We have done several ttrs motors, and advised in others and been contacted in several others.. We have done several built 600whp port injected 2.5L engines that share the same rod and main bearing clearances. It is my opinion that the rod bearings are too tight on the tfsi 2.5 and the port injected 2.5L. The tfsi failures can partially be blamed on a heavy rotating assembly as well, as most failed rod bearing situations also have stretched rod bolts. Missing a shift and over rev of these motors with heavy pistons and 22mm wrist pins is catastrophic. I have not heard of any other ttrs spinning rod bearings outside of miss shifts. The one on this forum last week is the first I've heard.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the outstanding write up... I was the person that said 13 because a friend of mine that just blew his engine text'd that you had rebuilt 13. 3 sounds a lot more realistic... I also blew my engine @ the 7700 mile mark. It too was an over-rev situation. I was extremely fortunate that Audi gave me a one time "Get Out of Jail Free" card. I would be interested in having a conversation with you about reinforcing the lower end of my 2.5 TFSI... With the 3 you have rebuilt and mine, I know of 6 others around the U.S. that have blown their 2.5 TFSI and you are correct all mis-shifts...


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## MCPaudiTT (Nov 26, 2006)

Marty said:


> What is the purpose of tighter main bearing clearances in the first place from Audi?
> 
> Does the motor have to come out to swap rods, or can the pistons be R&R'd from below?


URHank, I'd be interested in your comments on this as well...


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

URHank said:


> It is my opinion that the rod bearings are too tight on the tfsi 2.5 and the port injected 2.5L.
> 
> I wouldn't put anything 0 weight in these motors. That is playing with fire.


Since 0w is merely a measure of the cold flow and starting viscosity, wouldn't it be more beneficial to run 0w on a vehicle with tight bearing clearances? You would then want an oil with a high viscosity index so the viscosity doesn't decrease as much as it comes up to temperature. Keep in mind that 0w is a specification tested at temperatures which are irrelevant to most other than those that live in the absolute coldest climates. A 5w can actually have a lower viscosity than 0w at 0ºF. 

This was an old chart I made many years ago to compare several oils I was looking at. I generated viscosity curves for each oil but didn't host them online. 










IMO, HTHS is probably one of the best indicators of actual viscosity in a turbocharged engine and most 40 weights are on the lower side of the end of the HTHS requirement for 502.00. M1 0w40, Amsoil 5w40, Pennzoil Ultra 5w40, Castrol 0w30, 0w40, 5w40 are all around the 3.5-3.7 range. I would think that an 0w such as Redline 0w40 which has a HTHS of 4.0 would be desirable if worried about bearing wear. I used to run the RL 10w40 in my A3 due to the cam follower issues, and that has a HTHS of 4.6. Keep in mind, all of these oils will suffer from fuel dilution which reduces viscosity as well as the HTHS rating. I've just found it easier to do short oil changes with good oil vs longer intervals with expensive oil to keep the effects of fuel dilution in check. 

Dave


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Also while on the subject of oil. I changed the oil at 10,000 miles and used Pennzoil Ultra 5w40. It is a group 3+ GTL (natural gas based) which is well regarded on BITOG. I did get the newer "SN" formulation which has a HTHS of 3.88 and I've noticed that it is darker than the earlier SM formulation. 

Ultra 5w40 PDS

I had a stash of Mann oil filters (same as OEM) leftover from the A3 so I used those as well. 

While I was down there I also installed the Super Pro "fast road" lower torque mount. I will run the mount for a few more days before posting the DIY & impressions. 










Dave


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## robotvoice (Apr 7, 2014)

URHank said:


> I wouldn't put anything 0 weight in these motors. That is playing with fire.


Are you calling 0w30/40 a 0 weight oil? You know the first number is your cold startup viscosity and the second number is your normal operating temperature viscosity, right? 

There are a bunch of 0w30 and 0w40 approved oils under the VW 502 00 spec.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

Sorry to cloud your thread. We probably ought to move the good conversation to somewhere else. 

I should probably stop posting via the phone in bed, as I get pretty lazy. The 0 weight is not so much for anything related to spinning rod bearings, it is for the tension and guide system for the chain drives. That is why I put the 0 weight disclaimer after my rod bearing thoughts. 

A 0 weight is a very loud engine on start up. The updated TTRS and 08+ lower belt drive helped a lot with the chain noise and guide failures, but pretty much the concept is that noisy chains is slack in the chain drive. 0 weight is usually fine for the first bit, but like all oils, it will break down with heat and fuel dilution. Most of the 2.5L failures with guides are due to the Audi/VW recommended intervals with subpar oil in 0-30 ratings. The amount of wear is amplified when that audible chain guide wear is present. Even with the updated guides with reinforced tongues, they still break off. If a 2.5 does not quiet down substantially with a 10-XX( you will always have some clatter as nature of the beast), chances are that he upper end guide per intake cam is fractured.

Back to protecting rod bearings, it also is a very dangerous oil viscosity for non enthusiast car guys(though girls is what I am really getting at, IE wife in a hurry). A proper warm up is imperative with a 0-40. 

We use Brad Penn 10W40 on all of our motors. On race only engines with temps above 200 degrees continual on track, 20W50. There are plenty of other oils that work as well that are substitute oils for Brad Penn. In other words, I am not married to Brad Penn, just happens to be a good affordable racing oil that is worked well for us. This is a fantastic article from our friends at Forced Performance Turbochargers. Read it and substitute 07k anywhere you hear 4g63. It all applies nicely. Although they are somewhat abrasive, I consider FP to be the leading edge of turbocharger technology. One of the few companies that actually destructive tests their products.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/news/Forced%20Performance%20Recommendations%20for%20Motor%20Oil.pdf

As for wrist pin recommendations, 22mm isn't a bad thing, but my opinion is that Audi used this size of a pin to be able to use a tapered pin configuration and not push out the small end bushing on the small end of the taper. We have seen this on 20mm tapered configs, not only in the 2.5TFSI, but also in the 2.0Ts. If going with custom pistons, we usually run JE's with 20mm too steel pins. They aren't much lighter than the 22s, but they allow for 1mm(2mm/2) more ring land on the ring packages, which is nice for a heavily boosted engine like the TTRS. There isn't much room for getting more ringland otherwise, as the 92.8mm stroke in a 220mm deck with 144mm rods makes for a pretty high pin, especially on a motor that has a below deck piston like the 2.5.

More than anything, a JE piston is roughly 380 grams with pins while the RS cast piston is 492 grams. That is a heavy piston and as RPM increases, load on rod bolts is not linear. If that rod bolt does stretch beyond yield or plastic elasticity, then you have an out of round bearing that is only a matter of revolutions before the bearings starts to chew. In my opinion, that is why TFSI engines don't have much life expectancy if 2nd gear is grabbed instead of 4th on a downshift at speed. 

So the cliff notes, Hbeams with non taper 22mm or 20mm tool steel with ARP200s minimum, skirt coated antifriction JE's with bigger valve pockets for future cams, .001" oversized ACL coated rod bearings. If we are pulling the crank, we usually polish the crank aggressively to get the crank into the .0017" range from the current .001" they fall in typically. Just cheap insurance we afford ourselves with thicker oil. This has worked really well for us. To my knowledge, nobody has made more torque than we have on the 2.5T which is an indication of the bottom end strength. We have made over 1000NM. We are building a 9500rpm motor for my personal DSG Mk2 with a 2.5T swapped in and that is pretty much the spec. Now executing it requires a good machinist and engine builder.



Marty said:


> Thanks for chiming in, Hank. Always love reading your posts. What is the purpose of tighter main bearing clearances in the first place from Audi?
> 
> Does the motor have to come out to swap rods, or can the pistons be R&R'd from below?


A tighter clearance on rod and main journals requires less oil volume and smaller pumps, and also allows for lower viscosity oils in theory as a road car. When oil is being required to fill a .0025 void vs .0008"( and then "leak" out) as they are constantly doing, this requires a lot more oil. Oil pumps are no different than superchargers or any other accessory. The more pump required, the more horsepower required to run the parasitic pump. The TTRS also has a pressure bypass that is activated at cruise where oil pressure isn't required as much, and that is another strategy at reducing oil pump load. This is only on the TTRS blocks and the later port injected motors after 2011+. Pretty much just MPG deal. This is the majority of the reason the new 1.8T motors have gone back to belt driven vs chain driven. Chain driven motors require a lot of oil volume/pressure, which is a loss of power. The packaging takes back seat to efficiency in that segment. Oversized clearances account for big heat deltas and also the slight crank deformations that happen as torque and HP happen. In a perfect world, cranks don't move, but that is anything but the truth. If you are building a OEM motor to a max of 360hp, you run models and safety factors for the resonances and deflection at the powerband intended. It shouldn't be a surprise that asking double from them and reving them close to another set of harmonics would require more clearance.

The other thing I hate about the stock TTRS rod is the lack of tangs on the bearing to keep them from spinning should a drop in pressure or overspin happen. I understand why Audi did it, as they use a cool fractured cap instead of a keyed pin like most rods you are used to looking at. A tang isn't really possible with a fractured cap. While tangs don't stop bearing damage in lack of pressure situation, they do keep them from spinning and chucking which ruins cranks and puts tons of FOD into the system. The FOD is the big unknown in diagnosing spun bearings costs. 90% of the time, a spun bearing takes out the oil pump as it is pre filter, and a lot of the time the contamination from the spun rod bearings hurts the keyed main bearings(specialized bearing sizes married to specific main journals, Audi designates them with colors, so GGRBRG is a typical sizing). 

Another big $$$$ mistake is once spinning, the engine is restarted once cooled. This is bad as the oil filter housings on these(same as 2.5L NA motor) bypasses the filter as the oil can't pass through the filter fast enough thick, and creates a pressure differential. This means oil is fed unfiltered. Obviously, this isn't good, and contaminates the rest of the engine. A thinner oil helps with not activating the bypass on startup, but as discussed, that opens up a can of worms as well.

The problem with the TTRS/Rabbit bottom ends is that the upper lower pan can only be removed with the transmission removed or the engine removed. This gives access to the lower end. You might be able to get rods in from the bottom, but my hunch is no. I can try with some spare blocks we have at the shop. We are usually building heads when we do crate 07k engines, so the heads come off anyway.

Hope that helps Marty. Let me know if I can help in any way.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

robotvoice said:


> Are you calling 0w30/40 a 0 weight oil? You know the first number is your cold startup viscosity and the second number is your normal operating temperature viscosity, right?
> 
> There are a bunch of 0w30 and 0w40 approved oils under the VW 502 00 spec.


Yeah, I explained it above in text, but wanted to comment on the VW 502 00 spec. These VW spec's are not in any way, shape or form intended for motorsport or spirited driving. The author of that spec is the same author that thought 10k mile oil intervals on the 1.8T was a good idea, or that 105k timing belt changes worked, recommended undersized oil filter that made engines run in bypass continutally, etc. 

Half of the guys on this board are running software on the TTRS that is overclocking the TTRS k16 from the word "go". Running a VW502 00 spec oil assumes that you are doing what Audi intended you to do with the car at 360hp. If there is a daily driven RS out there that doesn't see 200 degrees continually on track as they all do, then yeah, the vw spec is just fine I suppose. We just rarely do that around here.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

I always wondered why Audi put a soft limiter on the TT RS vs all the other RS cars. So if you don't upgrade internals and still want to make good power with an upgraded turbo, it sounds like just leave the stock limiter in place and the internals are happy? I wonder if the stock limiter is designed such that a money shift is far less likely to over speed the internals.


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## bull30 (Jun 15, 2008)

Only works going up... Downshifting you are on your own... Trust me, I know all about that


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

7500 with stock internals is not a big deal at all, which is where all current turbos on the market for the RS are done or dropping off rapidly. APR kits have proven that 7500 is safe. There aren't cams that can support above 7000 on the market anyway, so no real need for getting 9500rpm safe when nothing will breath up there even with a larger turbocharger. No turbocharger is efficient for more than 3500rpm tops, most for only 3000rpm. One has to just pick the powerband it can get away with for the application. For OEM, they wanted full boost by 2800-3000, so the turbo would be done by 6200. If you had a 8000rpm soft limiter, the magazines would harp on it for having a weak top end. By using a small k16 and good ratios, you don't really need to shift above 6500. The power is falling off hard by then.

Money shifts are money shifts, no two ways about it. That is a transmission problem, not an engine problem. Even a built motor is not going to like the 10k rpm that audi claimed it had seen before voiding the warranty. 

I chuckle when 6 speed petitions for the mk3 come around, as if the mk2 RS 6 speed was a gem. Strong yes, but shifting smooth was never it's strong point. I have yet to hear of a DSG car eating an engine  If you take out money shifts, I only know of a couple of failures on these TTRS motors. They are pretty stout pieces.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Excellent info URHank! Thank you for taking the time to post it up!


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## mrvr6turbo1 (Feb 22, 2006)

WOW thanks for all the info. My TTRS was APR Stage 1, 2 months ago at dealer, they miss-shifted and blew engine. Dealer replaced engine. With all this info, I am more aware of what can cause this engine to fail and how to take care of it while also enjoying my ride in a spirited way.


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## robotvoice (Apr 7, 2014)

The stock shifter bushings make for a really vague shifting experience on the TTRS. It was one of my biggest (and only) gripes with the car when I first got it. It makes it VERY easy to get into the wrong gear. Swapping the bushings out with solid ones made such a huge difference and gave me back a lot of confidence shifting this thing. I'm actually not surprised to hear about all the "money shifts" in this thread. 

The s2000 engine is another example of a really strong and well built motor in stock form but guys mechanical overrev them all the time from money shifts because the stock shifter throw is so short and precise and it's easy to downshift into the wrong gear if you're not careful.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

robotvoice said:


> The stock shifter bushings make for a really vague shifting experience on the TTRS. It was one of my biggest (and only) gripes with the car when I first got it. It makes it VERY easy to get into the wrong gear. Swapping the bushings out with solid ones made such a huge difference and gave me back a lot of confidence shifting this thing. I'm actually not surprised to hear about all the "money shifts" in this thread.
> 
> The s2000 engine is another example of a really strong and well built motor in stock form but guys mechanical overrev them all the time from money shifts because the stock shifter throw is so short and precise and it's easy to downshift into the wrong gear if you're not careful.


E46 M3's have the same reputation as well. High rev'ing I6 engine, but doesn't take kindly to being spun to 10k plus on a bad shift. Must again be the transmission shifting action like the S2k, as they are known to blow up from mechanical over Rev fairly often. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

502 spec oil is garbage, use it if you want carbon buildup, otherwise put 507 in like europe does


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## DUTCHswift (Feb 22, 2012)

opcorn: Watching. This is my favorite TT chassis and one of my dream cars to drive/own.


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## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

you bastard! you left us:banghead:

I miss you


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

Tcardio said:


> you bastard! you left us:banghead:
> 
> I miss you


He's dead Jim. 

To me anyways... lol


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## slypete (Nov 4, 2015)

Marty said:


> Another part to consider (apologies in advance to your wallet):


Do you happen to know the part number for these headlights? They European headlights look so much better! Would these retain the adaptive headlights?

Thank you!
Pete


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