# Pls help decide - trade in 2.5L for a GTI ?



## r2006 (May 9, 2012)

Hello there, I have a 2006 Rabbit with the 2.5L i5, MT engine at almost 99k miles. Never had an issue, car runs very good BUT .... two things: 

- it's getting old and in a year or two I will probably be looking for another car (i.e., a VW of course). By that time, the VW-s will be assembled in Mexico and I don't trust that to produce high quality. I don't want VW made in Mexico, and I don't want to debate that topic. Personal preference. 

- I can trade in the Rabbit for a GTI. Initially I wanted to buy a 2013 Golf 2.5L i5, but I hear they messed the gears up to make it more "fuel efficient" = more sluggish. 

2.5L Golfs are hard to find nowadays, but I have a dealer who located one. There are plenty of GTI-s around. 

So here's my request for advice. I can still trade in my car for a reasonable price - KBB lists trade in value at $4000, I would be happy if dealer gives me $3000. 

Before VW-s move to Mexico (i.e., next year): 

Trade the Rabbit for a 2013 GTI and deal with the GTI carbon build up ? Is that wise ? 

Trade the Rabbit for a 2013 2.5L i5 Golf ? Is the new Golf really sluggish now ? 

Keep the Rabbit, and what am I going to do when I want a new VW ? Read: 2-3 years from now, tops. 

Anything else ? -- 2.5L Jetta, Passat ..... 

Thank you for your time.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

r2006 said:


> Trade the Rabbit for a 2013 GTI and deal with the GTI carbon build up ? Is that wise ?.


 the 2014 GTI is supposed to have dual-injection, direct and port; to combat carbon buildup. 

honestly, i'd wait until the winter for those to come out.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Does it have to be a new car? Will it have to be a new car if it comes 2-3 years? Do you have intentions on modifying your next car?

Honestly if it was me and I was going with a mk6, I would do gti. My love for vw began with mkv and for me that's really the only one I would go with a 2.5 for. Easier to modify and better looking. The mk6 golf just isn't the same as the mkv rabbits and jettas. Hope that helps

Side note: My jetta is a Mexico and I can see no difference in quality between my car and a rabbit or gti, but I can understand where you are coming from. 

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## r2006 (May 9, 2012)

I will not do any mods, just want to have a fun, spirited drive for a daily drive and some more fun in the weekends. 

The Rabbit was - and still is - an exceptionally reliable drive. 

It's basically the "assembled in mexico" panic .... maybe I should just calm down. 

Thanks,


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Most of my parts in my car are stamped Germany. Still if I was in your position and not looking to modify a car, gti all the way. 

Take from it what you will but my 337 was made in Brazil.

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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

idk if its been mentioend... but: rabbits and jettas are made in mexico. Only the GTI/Passat is german made, as far as i know.


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

I too was torn between a GTI & 2.5L & TDI. 
I went for a 2012 base 2.5L with the tiptronic 6 spd (deep down I'm a cheap bastid). 
32K miles later, I'm still in love with the car, plenty of speed here. 
I did a few mods to make a little noise (CAI & GTI valance/exhaust).


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

thygreyt said:


> idk if its been mentioend... but: rabbits and jettas are made in mexico. Only the GTI/Passat is german made, as far as i know.


 Mkv I thought gti rabbit was Germany and jetta Mexico. New passats are USA.

Sent from a phone booth.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

vwluger22 said:


> Mkv I thought gti rabbit was Germany and jetta Mexico. New passats are USA.
> 
> Sent from a phone booth.


 This is correct. 

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## r2006 (May 9, 2012)

Rabbits were assembled in Germany, they were new model and were shipped to US. 

They still are, GTI-s as well. 2013 is the last year these cars will be assembled in Germany, currently VW is upping the plant in Puebla and all 2014 models and on will be assembled there. 

It's cheaper. 

But that's besides the point. I appreciate your thoughts about this. It has helped me.


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## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

Stop being racist :thumbup:

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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

r2006 said:


> Initially I wanted to buy a 2013 Golf 2.5L i5, but I hear they messed the gears up to make it more "fuel efficient" = more sluggish.


 Yes, for 2011 and up 2.5's they are geared much longer. Yes, I hear they are more sluggish. Luckily I got my golf in 2010  

Really the standards are the same for the car being produced in Mexico but I agree its a bit weird and its a turnoff for me as well. Not being racist haha, just it doesn't have the same heritage. However, the new gti or even the new 1.8t should be an absolute hoot to drive. Quite honestly though I dislike the look. Front looks good but they messed up the side and rear.


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## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

My Mexican whore has treated me just fine. 

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## r2006 (May 9, 2012)

Well, if you were into fine jewelery, would you buy a Patek Philippe that was assembled in China ? With Swiss parts, just assembled in China .....

That's how I feel about VW assembled in Mexico.


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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

r2006 said:


> Well, if you were into fine jewelery, would you buy a Patek Philippe that was assembled in China ? With Swiss parts, just assembled in China .....
> 
> That's how I feel about VW assembled in Mexico.


I see your point. But it is just a VW.


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## mabbonizio186 (Oct 15, 2006)

I have a 2012 golf, and test drove a 2010. While i think the car feels a bit sluggish in the high gears (3-5) overall it has good pick up around town. Honestly my girlfriends automatic 2.5 golf "feels" quicker. I don't think it is because of the power loss through the drive train. I will say that while I sometimes wish for shorter gears, I appreciate the tall gears because the car gets excellent highway gas milage, and you can barely hear the motor due to it turning at such a low speed in the higher gears. I'd also rather have 30 less hp and a second or two off my zero to sixty time, than the lack luster reliability of the TSI motors.


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

My vote would be to hang onto it for another year or two. Maybe you will get over your mexiphobia by then. If not you can always pick up a nice CPO MKVI.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

We aren't getting dual injection. Confirmed by local dealer. Not sure why.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

New Golf's will have the new 1.8T. Wait for that, get your ya-ya's and save some dough.


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

If you are curious about the 1.8tsi...the new Jetta sedans are coming with them. Local dealer has one on the lot already. Kind of tempted to take it for a spin.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

A1an said:


> If you are curious about the 1.8tsi...the new Jetta sedans are coming with them. Local dealer has one on the lot already. Kind of tempted to take it for a spin.


You will get so much more bang for your buck on mods, I can't imagine that a lot of 2.5s won't be seeing their way to used car lots all over the country. 

If I hadn't already traded my 2012 2.5l Golf, for a 2.0T 2012 Bug, I'd be eagerly waiting for the 2014 Golfs. 

I also hear that the Scirocco, and the GTD(TDI version of the GTI) are coming to America too. Nice.


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

Although I realize the 1.8 is a more efficient motor, I still somewhat prefer the simplicity of the 2.5. I am at 116k on mine with nothing more than the regular maintenance stuff. The 1.8tsi will likely need a carbon cleaning well before it hits that sort of mileage. Not cheap to do unless you are up for the DIY challenge.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

le0n said:


> the 2014 GTI is supposed to have dual-injection, direct and port; to combat carbon buildup.
> 
> *honestly, i'd wait until the winter for those to come out.*





A1an said:


> The 1.8tsi will likely need a carbon cleaning well before it hits that sort of mileage. Not cheap to do unless you are up for the DIY challenge.


the new engines are going to have combined injection, so they shouldn't need to be decarboned like the previous fsi & tsi engines. under low loads, the intake manifold injection will be utilized. med-high engine loads will utilize the direct injection.

the port injection should keep everything relatively clean. you get the best of both worlds with that setup.


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## dub_life91 (May 8, 2013)

2015 golf r.


just saying:laugh:


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## A1an (Mar 22, 2007)

le0n said:


> the new engines are going to have combined injection, so they shouldn't need to be decarboned like the previous fsi & tsi engines. under low loads, the intake manifold injection will be utilized. med-high engine loads will utilize the direct injection.
> 
> the port injection should keep everything relatively clean. you get the best of both worlds with that setup.


We get direct injection only from what I understand.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ of all the immoral things that could happen, that would be the worst, hah hah...


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## Streetliight (Sep 5, 2011)

About 6 months ago I was kicking around the idea of trading my car for something else, maybe a B5 or B6 S4, a B7 A4, a GTI, a Mk4 R32...but ultimately I decided to keep the 2.5. While it may take more work and money to make it "fast", I feel like it's probably worth it in the end. thygreyt, TrillyPop, and others who have gone turbo all seem to be madly in love with their cars now haha. 

The reliability is also a huge factor as well. I test drove a B7 A4 with the 2.0T, and it was hiccuping the whole way down the highway, among other engine issues that I honestly don't have the experience/knowledge to tackle. 

I'll continue to slowly build my car until I'm ready to go turbo, especially since it seems like the aftermarket is really opening up for the 2.5 now. 

I think I made the right choice, right? 

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## Zoolook_ (Mar 17, 2012)

Streetliight said:


> I think I made the right choice, right?


I certainly think so. Every now and again I wish I'd gone for a GTI... but 5 cylinders are nice and the reliability is a big factor.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

me, trillypop, scott youngblood, jordan, tyler, are all in love with the 2.5T. Not only does it still has a great sounding engine/exhaust/turbo noise... its also reliable.

Additionally: most swaps looking for BIG power are going with the 2.5 instead of doing the vr6.
Bluewater has done a few swaps.
Golf R did a swap.
now we have 2 mark 3s making consistent 10 secs 1/4 miles.

need i say more?


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## Streetliight (Sep 5, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> me, trillypop, scott youngblood, jordan, tyler, are all in love with the 2.5T. Not only does it still has a great sounding engine/exhaust/turbo noise... its also reliable.
> 
> Additionally: most swaps looking for BIG power are going with the 2.5 instead of doing the vr6.
> Bluewater has done a few swaps.
> ...


No, you've said enough! You just gave me more reasons to hang onto my 2.5  

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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

Streetliight said:


> No, you've said enough! You just gave me more reasons to hang onto my 2.5
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


If you aren't doing any mods, get the new 1.8 turbo Golf. The 2.5 is sluggish. Sounds good, but doesn't have the go to back up the grunt. And then that's what you're stuck with. 

If you're modding, then the 2.5 is too little bang, for way way too much buck. By the time you're done, you've put $7k into a $18k car, turboing it. For $25k, you can easily get a entry level GTI, and everything will be under warranty. Then for $700, you can make it scream. Or take a new 1.8t Golf to Stage 1.

The 2.5 was a missed opportunity for VW. Could have been something great, but it was just OK. And once you put a Turbo on an engine that was never designed for one, you immediately blow any warranty claims, and shorten the life of your engine.


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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

A couple of good used options that I like, are the Mk5 2008.5 & 2009 GTI, and the Mk5 R32.

http://tinyurl.com/lcso6rz

http://tinyurl.com/mdszxf8

The R32 has that growl, even better than the 2.5, and the power to match. They can be pricey, but there are bargains to be had.

The GTI from those years have the TSI, and not the FSI, so you get the best of both worlds, GTi wise.


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## Streetliight (Sep 5, 2011)

I agree that the 2.5 was a missed opportunity in terms of a performance engine, rather than an econobox engine, but I still think that it's worth it to keep mine.

One of the attractions of the turbo'd 2.5 (for me) is that hardly anybody builds one up, and a lot of non-VW people can barely believe that it's an I5 haha. The idea of kicking ass in a car with an engine nobody knows about intrigues me, rather than in an R32 or a GTI. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the R32 and the GTI, but I guess I like being a special little snowflake or something lol. Also, I only paid 13k for mine a year ago, with a certified preowned warranty, and beating cars twice the price at Autocross makes me happy. 

Mine will be paid off in two years or so, and then who knows what I'll buy. Maybe an R, maybe the GTD, who knows. But for now, the 2.5 makes me happy  

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## Fudgey Memory (Oct 26, 2011)

Streetliight said:


> I agree that the 2.5 was a missed opportunity in terms of a performance engine, rather than an econobox engine, but I still think that it's worth it to keep mine.
> 
> One of the attractions of the turbo'd 2.5 (for me) is that hardly anybody builds one up, and a lot of non-VW people can barely believe that it's an I5 haha. The idea of kicking ass in a car with an engine nobody knows about intrigues me, rather than in an R32 or a GTI. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the R32 and the GTI, but I guess I like being a special little snowflake or something lol. Also, I only paid 13k for mine a year ago, with a certified preowned warranty, and beating cars twice the price at Autocross makes me happy.
> 
> ...


Sounds good. Can't wait to see what you do.

It is an inline 5, by the way. There was only one V5 made by VW, and that was a long time ago.


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## r2006 (May 9, 2012)

I found a 2013 Golf 2.5L brand new, manual, 2 door, probably among the last ones in the Seattle area, and traded in my Rabbit.

I am very happy with this new Golf, going to install a P-Flow on it, and call it a good deal.

Would have loved a GTI, but the reported carbon deposit, and especially the repeated failure of the water pump turned me off. Do Europeans have the same engine in the GTI ? Do they have the same problems with their GTI-s ? 

Anyway, happy camper, love the 2.5L i5, and will keep this one for a long time.


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## Streetliight (Sep 5, 2011)

Fudgey Memory said:


> Sounds good. Can't wait to see what you do.
> 
> It is an inline 5, by the way. There was only one V5 made by VW, and that was a long time ago.


I'm still a long way from going turbo with my car. It's a money thing. 

And I said "I5" I think. If I typed V5, I apologize, I'm on my phone right now. 

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## MK5golf (Jun 30, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> idk if its been mentioend... but: rabbits and jettas are made in mexico. Only the GTI/Passat is german made, as far as i know.


 My (and ALL Rabbits) are assembled in Germany. So are the mk6 Golfs. You might be confused with other parts such as the 2.5 which is entirely assembled in Mexico. Also, our transmissions are not built in either country. The Auto is built in Japan by Aisin (iirc) and the 5 speed manual is hecho en Argentina 


r2006 said:


> Well, if you were into fine jewelery, would you buy a Patek Philippe that was assembled in China ? With Swiss parts, just assembled in China .....
> 
> That's how I feel about VW assembled in Mexico.


Oh and you know what, I completely agree! As superficial as it sounds, to me there is just something invaluable about the "cachet" of something made in Germany. It puts my mind at ease and if I can be honest (flame suit on) makes me feel just _somewhat better_ than the other compact drivers on the road opcorn:

OP, if I were you I would hold onto the Rabbit. Save your pennies and when the time is right get something even better than a GTI, like an R or maybe even step up to an Audi. Thats my plan anyways.


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