# Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff



## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

I have 1983 Rabbit Callaway Turbo car..
Microfueler failed and it ran lean and fried a piston...
Block needs an over bore of .5 so im hunting for 9:1 forged pistons 81.5mm ?? I got a quote for some weisco for $520... any other suggestions?
thrust & main bearings .010 $64.99
rod bearing set $39.99
ARP rodbolt set $149.99
arp mainBots $129.95
Wiseco set,includes rings,pins and clips $520.00
HeadGasket Set with multilayer steel head gasket $80.00
block gasket set Ger $69.99
blockgasket set Brazil $49.99
intermediate shaft bearings $20.00

I got a quote of those prices for the parts to put my block back together... totals like $1100.. not including the machine work which will be another $700.. OUCH AGAIN.
So i dont ever ever ever wanna go lean again.. ive been doing some research home work and old school'ness everyone went with VWMS CIS unit.. i dont run o2 sensor on the callaway so from the descriptions i had read, i can rock one....
Any pros / cons to a VW motorsport CIS UNIT ?
Anyone with experience?
Any other engine building suggestions? I could of probably go 1 over and go to 82mm piston but i just dont want those walls thin, scares me!!


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## epjetta (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

i run 14 psi in my ms controlled car. has been going strong for a year now. i also run an aem uego wide band to keep tabs on things. i'm making about 280hp and keep breaking driveline parts. now i am looking for an 02j to swap in. i could hook you up with the map and a box if you want to go that way. and in my opinion its the only way. i scrapped my cis turbo plans long ago,


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (epjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *epjetta* »_i run 14 psi in my ms controlled car. has been going strong for a year now. i also run an aem uego wide band to keep tabs on things. i'm making about 280hp and keep breaking driveline parts. now i am looking for an 02j to swap in. i could hook you up with the map and a box if you want to go that way. and in my opinion its the only way. i scrapped my cis turbo plans long ago,


I might entertain MS on my Jetta Coupe project...
But on the callaway rabbit, i want it original which i know im going to sacrifice.. I have an HKS AIC 5th / 6th injector set up that im going to run on the callaway just to prevent my lean'ness and is easy to swap out and put back the worthless microfueler that came on the state 2 callaway kits...
I have to protect my engine... but i still want to keep the CIS


_Modified by vwsnaps at 11:51 PM 5-18-2008_


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

t t t


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

no 8v gurus around anymore?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

It's not old school, but it could be hidden







. Standalone WUR/Control pressure control, with a MAP and RPM sensor for proper boost fueling with CIS








http://unwiredtools.com/utcis-pt.asp


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

that is interesting...


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

You could go a bit larger on the bore (say 82.5 or even 83.0) as the block has enough meat and will not cause overheating with the turbo. Add a thermal top coating to protect against detonation and burning a piston. And if you really want to beef the bottom end up, you could throw in a set of Scat rods.


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## karl_1052 (Feb 10, 2008)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

If I remember correctly, the VWMS CIS plate was just a larger bore air metering plate, and later CIS cars came with the same size metering plate.
I think they started using the larger plate in around 1981.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (karl_1052)*

Some of the really early units had an 80mm flow plate, but were CIS-basic. I've got two at home...didn't realise what they were until a local VW oldschooler pointed it out to me. My 1.7L flow plate is 70mm, and they upgraded to the CIS-Lambda when they went to the 80mm plate again didn't they?


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (B4S)*

There are three factory plate arrangements if I recall: 60mm, 80mm thick lip and 80mm thin lip.
Air flow is usually not the problem: fuel flow in relation to air flow is the problem. For this reason, I am not a big fan of the thin lip bowl unless it is coupled to a higher-flowing fuel distributor like the 240T.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (Longitudinal)*

The Volvo 240t metering unit has an 80mm plate, but the housing it moves within is both deeper and wider at the top. The Audi 5kt units seem to use the same flow housing since the Audi 5kt boot fits the 240t unit perfectly whilst the stocker 8v unit required a bit of a stretch...
I've not seen anyone post flow figures for the VWMS unit... would be interesting!
I *think* the 240t unit could flow a bit more than it does in stock form... perhaps if the metering flow housing was machined to allow the arm to go a little higher... but I haven't yet tried doing that...
best regards,
Peter T.


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## OLDSKOOLVWS (May 12, 2004)

The VWMS units were actually European 16V units similar to the 8V units. The 8V units are the typical "Euro Distributor" that are for sale. The VWMS units are a little harder to come by. I bought 2 of them brand new a few years back from a source for my 8V, non-turbo cars. One is still new in the box and the other is actually on a friends 16V. EuroAtomic has one for sale now: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3845427
I might try to pull my down to snap some shots in comparison to an 8V version vs a GTi version.


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## WackyWabbitRacer (Apr 24, 2001)

*Re: (OLDSKOOLVWS)*

I used a VWMS fuel distributor in the old WackyWabbit SCCA production racer.
It used an 80mm air sensor plate similar to the earlier Bosch 80mm units.
However the major difference with the VWMS air sensor plate/funnel/fuel distributor is the funnel angles/slopes and the control plunger. The combination of these two factors allows the VWMS unit to flow more fuel, especially for an 8v engine.
Cheers, WWR.


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: (WackyWabbitRacer)*

My callaway motor failed from lack of fuel (mircofueler error i think and too much boost)
I bought an aftermarket HKS AIC unit to replace the microfueler and im just not sure if i would need that VWMS CIS unit that is for sale.. $350 is alot if i am not going to get a difference... maybe i could swap out the one from my 1980 1.6 rabbit and get the same result?


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## OLDSKOOLVWS (May 12, 2004)

*Re: (vwsnaps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwsnaps* »_My callaway motor failed from lack of fuel (mircofueler error i think and too much boost)
I bought an aftermarket HKS AIC unit to replace the microfueler and im just not sure if i would need that VWMS CIS unit that is for sale.. $350 is alot if i am not going to get a difference... maybe i could swap out the one from my 1980 1.6 rabbit and get the same result?


I can tell you that the one VWMS we installed on a US version of the 16V ran a little rich, naturally aspirated, per our A/F meter. $350 is a lot, but maybe you can negotiate. I don't think your 1980's version will cut it, even though it's CIS Basic. I'm tearing into my 77 now because my 1.6 Drake head burned a valve and I think it's attributed to my fuel distributer. I'll probably put back the 8V European version distributer to see how that fairs and go up to the 16V version if required, but I will also be installing a big valve converted head as well.


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## OLDSKOOLVWS (May 12, 2004)

*FV-QR*

His price has dropped: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (OLDSKOOLVWS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OLDSKOOLVWS* »_His price has dropped: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

Funny ive offered him $300 shipped a few times for it....


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

Ordered my pistons and stuff friday..
man this stuff adds up quick


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## OLDSKOOLVWS (May 12, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Here's another deal: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...68465


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## OLDSKOOLVWS (May 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vwsnaps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwsnaps* »_
Funny ive offered him $300 shipped a few times for it....


Its completely removed from E-Bay now too. He must have thought it would go up on e-bay but it didn't. Oh well, I think he has buyers, he just needs some flexibility in the price. I'm going to pick up one of those new 8V's so you better grab the other


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (OLDSKOOLVWS)*

I bought the one one ebay i also bought brand new CIS lines and injectors from him..


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## OLDSKOOLVWS (May 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vwsnaps)*

I saw the link was back up. You paid that? The lines were nice too...


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (OLDSKOOLVWS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OLDSKOOLVWS* »_I saw the link was back up. You paid that? The lines were nice too...

Yeah i just think i need it with my Callaway Motor build and upgraded turbo, every little bit of extra fuel will be nice. Especially since previous owner fried the motor by it running lean!
Im trying to break the $10k mark on the Callaway which i think i have already have.. and it still needs painted..


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## OLDSKOOLVWS (May 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vwsnaps)*

I want to come to your house and steal all your parts








keep us updated!


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## CALLAWAY TURBO (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

Just curious, 
how much of a warning did you get when your Microfueler failed?
I would assume you would have gotten some serious detonation 
under boost if it wasn't doing its thing.








I had a 83 GTi without a Microfueler using the cold start enrichment
and that was fairly vocal when I turned the boost up too much.


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (CALLAWAY TURBO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CALLAWAY TURBO* »_Just curious, 
how much of a warning did you get when your Microfueler failed?
I would assume you would have gotten some serious detonation 
under boost if it wasn't doing its thing.








I had a 83 GTi without a Microfueler using the cold start enrichment
and that was fairly vocal when I turned the boost up too much.

Car came to me already in bad shape.. if ya search YOU TUBE for Callaway Rabbit im sure my video of the car smoking and ping'in will come up.
Got any extra callaway downpipes laying around?


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## CALLAWAY TURBO (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

You mean something like this ...








only without this ...


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (CALLAWAY TURBO)*

i need one with external wastegate.. to keep my car all original and shiiet


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## CALLAWAY TURBO (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: Vw Motorsport CIS unit , forged pistons and other 8v stuff (vwsnaps)*

That's what you're looking at!








Its the pipe off of my 83 GTi (no o2 bung).
Notice how the pipe tends to crack around the connection for
the external wastegate? They all do that eventually!
You're going to have to get one fabbed to the orginally shape
as the orginals have been consumed. 
I have thought of finding someone to make up a few but I'm
not at that point. I gotta think someone else has been down
this road...
BTW, is the o2 sensor on a GTi in the exhaust manifold on your
setup?


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