# TSI Future: Intake Valve Fouling (carbon buildup) References.



## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Basics:- *VW* uses a "direct injection" fuel delivery architecture.
- fuel does not enter the combustion chamber through the intake valve.
- the (closed) sealing surface of the valve is never exposed to fuel.
- neither refinery fuel cleaning agents nor aftermarket cleaners can effect valve cleaning.


*Here is --->*A detailed discussion of the problem with a preventative fix

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*Here is --->*A discussion from an engine oil company.

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*Here is --->*One representative under $20 product... with vehicle lookup, cleaning procedure with pictures and a separate video.​
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​Presently, VW has no preventative maintenance schedules to minimize this problem. Their view is wait for the problem to surface (via the Check Engine light), and then examine the particulars then. They report the problem can surface @ 30,000 miles while also not appearing even @ 100,000. (_They also added that off-name gas products {like _Wawa vs. Sunoco_} offer "the worst gas you can get"._)
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## Dan00Hawk (Jun 22, 2013)

NewBeatle said:


> Basics:- *VW* uses a "direct injection" fuel delivery architecture.
> - fuel does not enter the combustion chamber through the intake valve.
> - the (closed) sealing surface of the valve is never exposed to fuel.
> - neither refinery fuel cleaning agents nor aftermarket cleaners can effect valve cleaning.
> ...


I've typically gotten rid of my VWs before 80k, so I can't say I've experienced the issue of carbon buildup, but it is a known issue as the miles pile up. This is good information you shared for those unaware of this issue with the direct injection turbo motors.

A few thoughts:
-Good or bad gas shouldn't make a difference for this particular issue, since fuel never touches those intake valves. Tier 1 fuel with better detergents will still help keep other items like injectors and exhaust valves cleaner, though.
-Relatively gentle driving may result in greater carbon buildup. Hence there is a theory that an occasional "Italian Tuneup" works by driving the car more aggressively at higher rpms to help generate more heat to burn off the carbon deposits. Whether it works or not, it's still fun!
-The STP valve cleaner in a can product shows a 5 cylinder motor when you look up the 2012-2019 Beetles under "Vehicle Lookup". The 2.5 5 cylinder is not direct injected, so it won't suffer from the carbon buildup issue. 
-GTI owners have sprayed similar products in by disconnecting MAP sensor, but once that's disconnected, you can't control the gas pedal to run at the 2000-3000 rpm that STP is suggesting. So I'm not sure how this would work on our similar Beetle motors.
-There are some other products out there that are similar. Doing this every 10-15k should help prevent buildup over a period of time. Doing it on an 80-100k motor that has a lot of buildup may not be effective. 
-For higher mileage motors with bad carbon buildup on the intake valves, walnut blasting of the valves with manual cleaning is absolutely effective, but also costs around $300-$800.

I'm due for an oil and spark plug change now that I'm coming up on 50k on my GTI, so I'll look into this product a bit further to see if it's something I can use, or if others have already. Gimme a few days.


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## ribbit (Jun 4, 2012)

Good imput, Should you ask the dealer to perform this procedure if you don't know or want to perform the cleanout? Will they even know what is being talked about?


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## GTIVRon (Jul 24, 2009)

ribbit said:


> Good imput, Should you ask the dealer to perform this procedure if you don't know or want to perform the cleanout? Will they even know what is being talked about?


Dealers will do it. They know about it. This has been a "problem" since 2005?

Local independent shops will likely do the same job for less money. Do it at the same time you're doing something else (like water pump replacement) to combine labor since the intake manifold has to come off.


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## ribbit (Jun 4, 2012)

Shouldn't this be done under warranty if the warranty is still in effect? My 2019 is a 7 yr 100K miles deal. I guess we will seewhen the time comes , the car has only 3,000 miles now.


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## GTIVRon (Jul 24, 2009)

No it won't be warrantied unless you get a CEL from it within the warranty period. While performance may start suffering before you get a CEL, if you drive the car in a way you'd notice a performance loss you likely won't have build-up bad enough until after the warranty expires.

The engine in my Golf is an older design (EA113) and the way I drive the car, it wasn't worth doing a cleaning at 60K miles. My wife has a 2012 Turbo (1st gen EA888), her build-up was a little more than my car at 65K miles. It didn't cause any issues but that one I did let them clean. She rarely gets above 3K and hardly ever sees full throttle.

This problem is exacerbated by short trips and lazy driving. The problem is that you don't get enough heat into the valves to burn off the deposits. Just make it a practice to go for 30+ minute drive every once in a while, and flog that thing up an on-ramp whenever you can. My wife did less than this and didn't have concerning build up at 65K miles.

As far as preventative measures, consider a catch can, but honestly, if you're in an area where freezing is a concern, I wouldn't bother.


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

Dan00Hawk said:


> I've typically gotten rid of my VWs before 80k, so I can't say I've experienced the issue of carbon buildup, but it is a known issue as the miles pile up. This is good information you shared for those unaware of this issue with the direct injection turbo motors.
> 
> A few thoughts:
> -Good or bad gas shouldn't make a difference for this particular issue, since fuel never touches those intake valves. Tier 1 fuel with better detergents will still help keep other items like injectors and exhaust valves cleaner, though.
> ...



The STP product has a metal flange around their product delivery tube. They instruct you to disconnect the intake, slide in the hose, reconnect the intake and start the process. I don't see how either the product tube gets crimped or the plastic intake manifold seal gets bent and it's seal corrupted by the tube protection flange. But, in theory, the STP provides a way to keep your intake manifold sealed and keep the engine (and gas pedal) happy.

Though I did find the STP product discussion page, and especially their FAQs, helpful; they really missed an opportunity to provide some before/after pictures dealing with Life_of_Engine --> Thickness_of_Buildup --> Results_after_treatment.​
I was amused to see that **GTIVRon** below shares your passion for _The Italian Tuneup_. Though I must say, when I hear that, I can't help thinking of the radiant receptionist in The Man From UNCLE ...








​
... *Marianna Di Martino*............ ...... 
​
I'll look forward to your report.

Thanks for responding.
​


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

ribbit said:


> Good imput,
> 
> Should you ask the dealer to perform this procedure if you don't know or want to perform the cleanout? Will they even know what is being talked about?



If your your dealer's service area does not know what you are talking about, you need to find another dealer.
As for asking the dealer ... given VW's policy to do nothing until the valves get so fouled that they can no longer close, dealers aren't uniform when it comes to reacting to an owner suggesting a type of service and a type of (non VW) part. Some take offense, others are helpful.

Thanks for your kind words.​


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## NewBeatle (Dec 5, 2019)

GTIVRon said:


> {... deleted stuff ... }
> 
> 
> This problem is exacerbated by short trips and lazy driving. The problem is that you don't get enough heat into the valves to burn off the deposits. Just make it a practice to go for 30+ minute drive every once in a while, and *flog that thing up an on-ramp whenever you can*. My wife did less than this and didn't have concerning build up at 65K miles.
> ...



*The Italian Tuneup* has another advocate.

Thanks for responding.
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