# ABA/16vT for dummies



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

I've looked through this forum and the sticky up top and still had a ton of questions before I started the tear down and build of my ABA/16vT, so I decided to make my own post with as much play by play as possible. This motor will go into '82 Rabbit Convertible with a 16v 2Y transmission and 100mm axles. I will post pictures where I have them to help explain a few things, please ask if there's anything I can clarify. Also if you have some tips of your own, please add to this thread.
Just a small disclaimer, I am by no means a professional mechanic, this is just "fun" for me, I usually sit behind a computer all day. I don't have any special tools really so whatever the average Joe will need, I'll also need. I'll try and keep a running list of this as well.
Since this post is for dummies (like me) I'll give a play by play, I'm sure most of you know many of the things I'm stating but bare with me.
I picked up a 9A 2.0l 16v motor and OBDII 2.0l crossflow motor from Dave at Oldskool Industries and will be using both of them to make one good motor. I will not be changing the pistons and will be throwing a t3/t4 turbo on the car hoping for 250 whp running MegaSquirt Fuel and Spark.
Here are the steps so far...
- Pull the valve cover off
- Pull the head off. You will be needing a set of "Triple Squares", I got mine from AutoZone as a package of 4 which worked out well since I'll need them for the axles as well.
- Took off power steering pump, alternator etc
- Took off all remaining pulleys.
- Took off lower timing belt cover
- Took off the water pump by undoing the nuts in the areas with the yellow arrows. Mine ended up coming out with the studs but since I won't be using this block, who cares.








- Took off metal sheilding by taking off the one nut and bolt located at the red arrows below.








- Since I don't have an air compressor yet, I stuck a screw driver through the intermediate shaft gear and wedged it on the block. This allowed me to turn the bolt (pointed to in yellow above) that held the gear on without turning the whole shaft.
- Now take off the two bolts holding the flange onto the block








- Pull the flange out, it may come off the shaft, this is alright. 








- Now pull the shaft out if it didn't come out with the flange
- Since the motor is still uprght, take off the screw for the distributor block off plate clamp








- Now see if you can get the plate off, this way you can get the drive gear for the oil pump out. If not, no big deal, I ended up poking mine out from the bottom.
- Now tip the motor over and take off the oil pan
- Once the pan is off undo the two bolts holding the oil pump to the block








- Now if you haven't gotten the gear out the top, go fishing for it now. It will come out the bottom. It should be found around this area








- If you haven't done so already, it is now time to poke the distributor block off through the top. I used a long screw driver and a rubber mallet. It doesn't look like it hurt anything.
I just picked up an engine stand for the ABA, once I get the flywheel and what not off of it I'll throw that on there and start cleaning it up and putting the 16v parts on/in it. 
Just a note, if you plan on doing high rpm driving, you may want to take this time to buy a new german oil pump, it may be worth it in the long run.
Well thats it for now, the whole process was pretty easy and would probably take me less than an hour now that I know what to do.
Comments? Questions?


----------



## Insertcoin (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (sicklyscott)*

awesome!





























I'll be doing this soon so http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for you.


----------



## Aladinsane07 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (Insertcoin)*

Really good write-up so far. Keep up the quality and this could end up being a good supplement to the sticky we have now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GermanRob (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (sicklyscott)*

Yes siiirr, this one's for you








and here's my question:
I have the 2.0 16v tranny, same deal as what your doing?
I'm going to be doing the swap into a 1989 CE2 car so I'm obviously on EZ street, but what are the plans as far as the Pulley system?
I've seen BBM's answer and its VERY costly.
I have about the same resources as yourself, and would love to know a simple solution to this big problem that everyone seems to face?

edit- dave at oldskool industries
2x http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by GermanRob at 9:05 AM 11-14-2007_


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm using a serpatine pulley set that Dave at Oldskool Industries sold me. You don't need to purchase an alternator pulley, the ABA one will work fine. If you're looking at saving some money you can shave down the ABA crank pulley by 5.75mm and I've read you can use a ABA A/C delete water pump pulley, however I haven't seen that confirmed.
Here's a link to Dave's post http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3100844
If you talk to him tell him SicklyScott sent ya http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You won't be dissapointed by this man


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sicklyscott* »_I'm using a serpatine pulley set that Dave at Oldskool Industries sold me. You don't need to purchase an alternator pulley, the ABA one will work fine. If you're looking at saving some money you can shave down the ABA crank pulley by 5.75mm and I've read you can use a ABA A/C delete water pump pulley, however I haven't seen that confirmed.
 the a/c delete water pump pulley will work... if you r planning on machining your stock pulley a hubcentric ring needs to be installed.... i got an aluminum one off ebay and got it machined so no ring is needed there.. but it really wasnt much less than the bbm one (less the $100)


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: (GermanRob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GermanRob* »_Okay so to reiterate...
Use all ABA pulleys and replace the crank pulley with a A/C delete pulley?
and keep the ABA oil pump setup when you do this, I assume









Use the ABA alternator pulley
Use the A/C delete water pump pulley
Use the ABA crank pulley shaved 5.75mm + hubcentric ring
Honestly you're best bet is to get a set of pulley's from Oldskool Industries, they save you the guest work and provide you with a nice product.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Yes, Dave's pulley's replace everything I outlined. Just a note, I'm not running A/C or power steering.
As for injecotrs, I've picked up a set of 42's with a 3 bar fpr.


----------



## GermanRob (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (sicklyscott)*

To further help anyone watching this thread, I spoke with dave about his serpentine belt setup for those of us building ABA16vT's and he basically said that you only need these 3 pulleys to run this setup.
No need for 16v intermediate shaft or any of that nonsense.
I did forget to ask about the distributor, but I'm sure Scott will chime in at this point.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Because I'm running this car on stand-alone, I am running the 4 window distributor on the head. I am using the distributor block off plate off of the 9A shown above. 
For you guys running the original OBDI/II setups, I believe you need to source a 1 window ABF distributor.


----------



## bronxbombers689 (May 4, 2007)

you can just swap the sensor and wheel from the 8v into the 16v dizzy


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sicklyscott* »_Because I'm running this car on stand-alone, I am running the 4 window distributor on the head. I am using the distributor block off plate off of the 9A shown above. 
For you guys running the original OBDI/II setups, I believe you need to source a 1 window ABF distributor.

for those not running standalone do a search for bmgfifty on how to swap the windows in the dizzies,allthough it should be burried in the sticky somewhere with the pics















I thought of doing a write up on mine but I stink at explaining things 
good luck


----------



## GermanRob (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *not SoQuick* »_
for those not running standalone do a search for bmgfifty on how to swap the windows in the dizzies,allthough it should be burried in the sticky somewhere with the pics















I thought of doing a write up on mine but I stink at explaining things 
good luck

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2645353


----------



## Aladinsane07 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: (GermanRob)*

Anymore progress with this?


----------



## GermanRob (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: (Aladinsane07)*

I've sourced a 9A, and an OBD1 block.... looking for coolant hoses, and contemplating new rings n bearings for the block.
Projected build start date isn't till after new years for myself... but I am buying dave's pulley kit before xmas


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Sorry guys, some electrical work needed attention on the house, I haven't had a chance to play with the ABA block yet. However the wires are in place for my air compressor!!!


----------



## 97'BlueGT (Jul 13, 2003)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

sick,
I posted a question in the forum but maybe you can answer. What is the reason for the 16v Crank and inter pulleys? What is the dfferance between the 16V CAM sprocket and the 8V cam sprocket? I think I can find a MUCH better and Cheaper way if you can get me the dimensions of both sprockets. I specifically need the width (max belt width) and the Diameter (from the top of the groove across to the top of the groove) of each CAM sprocket.
Here is my thought.
1: If the pulleys are the same diameter then technically there is no reason for the crank pulley. I am pretty sure they are the same since people are using the ABA Dizzy and it would spin at a different rate if the crank pulley was different. Then timing would never work.
2: So if there is no DIAMETER differance then the width is the only problem. Since the 16V crank pulleys are the wider ones then all we need to do is use a standard ABA width belt. We can shim the idler pulley in or out if needed to center the belt.
3: The 16V sprocket is not on the centerline of the head so I assume the belt needs to be LONGER. I can source a LONGER belt and make custom idler pulleys if needed.
Any help would be appreciated. I just won a 2.0 16V head on ebay and am in the process of doing the same as you. I have a complete OBD1 95 jetta to use as a template and source for the block etc.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: (97'BlueGT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *97’BlueGT* »_sick,
I posted a question in the forum but maybe you can answer. What is the reason for the 16v Crank and inter pulleys? What is the dfferance between the 16V CAM sprocket and the 8V cam sprocket? I think I can find a MUCH better and Cheaper way if you can get me the dimensions of both sprockets. I specifically need the width (max belt width) and the Diameter (from the top of the groove across to the top of the groove) of each CAM sprocket.
Here is my thought.
1: If the pulleys are the same diameter then technically there is no reason for the crank pulley. I am pretty sure they are the same since people are using the ABA Dizzy and it would spin at a different rate if the crank pulley was different. Then timing would never work.
2: So if there is no DIAMETER differance then the width is the only problem. Since the 16V crank pulleys are the wider ones then all we need to do is use a standard ABA width belt. We can shim the idler pulley in or out if needed to center the belt.
3: The 16V sprocket is not on the centerline of the head so I assume the belt needs to be LONGER. I can source a LONGER belt and make custom idler pulleys if needed.
Any help would be appreciated. I just won a 2.0 16V head on ebay and am in the process of doing the same as you. I have a complete OBD1 95 jetta to use as a template and source for the block etc.

The 16v gears are due to the fact that the sprocket on the head is wider than the 8v gears. Some people have asked why can't you just run a thinner belt and use the aba stuff and the answer is that the rotating assembly requires much more effort to turn on the 16v compared the 8v. You definitely will need to use the 16v intermediate shaft with gear and the 16v crank gear. As for timing belts go, BBM sells the ABF belt for $35 i believe http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 97'BlueGT (Jul 13, 2003)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

Thanks sick,
That clears it up a bit for me. But how is it that people are still running the ABA inter shaft? A modified pulley?


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

You can use the ABA IM shaft, but you'll have to buy parts from BBM to handle the change in distributor location and new sprocket. Although i find the BBM parts to be high in quality, they're also high in price. You can find all the 16v parts you need for cheaper if you look in the engine classifieds on here.


----------



## fullmetalrabbit (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

Subscribed.


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sicklyscott* »_You can use the ABA IM shaft, but you'll have to buy parts from BBM to handle the change in distributor location and new sprocket. Although i find the BBM parts to be high in quality, they're also high in price. You can find all the 16v parts you need for cheaper if you look in the engine classifieds on here.

 this is definitely true i got all the 16v oil pump and IM stuff for 70 shipped... you can also make a dizzy gizzy if you have a aba dizzy to wreck... i made one... but then ended up getting all the 16v stuff instead of using it


----------



## sjettav (Jun 22, 2004)

In order to use the ABA inter. shaft, can it be as simple as putting the 16v gear on the ABA shaft?
anyone know if the key diameter is the same?


----------



## malibu1228 (Oct 9, 2005)

*Re: (sjettav)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sjettav* »_In order to use the ABA inter. shaft, can it be as simple as putting the 16v gear on the ABA shaft?
anyone know if the key diameter is the same?


its almost that simple, http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...L_16V


----------



## sjettav (Jun 22, 2004)

good find, i didnt see that.
how's progress coming Scott?


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Ugh..it hasn't. The car has taken a back seat to my belly...trying to get rid of Thanksgiving dinner still. I have some time tomorrow morning, going to start on the ABA block.


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Alright, I finally got the engine on the stand this weekend, definitely a fun experience for one person without a hoist! Tear down will begin very shortly. 
I do have 2 questions though for those that have gone through the engine building process.
1. Should I (and if yes how do I) clean off the piston tops?
2. When I put the 16v head ontop of the ABA block, there is a big pin towards the transmission side of the block that doesn't line up to any hole on the head. I'm assuming I just pluck this pin out?


----------



## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

I can answer number 2. as my piston heads were fairly clean. 
Yes remove that pin








Source site
http://www.fast16v.com/


----------



## Aladinsane07 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

How'd the tear down go?


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (sjettav)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sjettav* »_In order to use the ABA inter. shaft, can it be as simple as putting the 16v gear on the ABA shaft?
anyone know if the key diameter is the same?

sorry to thread jack a bit but there was someone that did a write up on how to machine the 16v pulley to fit the aba keyway a LONG time ago forget who but its in the original thread somewhere 
as far as the original posters question #1 on cleaning the pistons 
I have heard mixed opinions from reliable sources on this......one thing they all agree on me included is it depends on what you have to start with and what it looks like.
a pic would help but I am from the school of thought that if its just some carbon and not flaking off and fairly even I would leave it be if I wasnt planning on removing the slugs 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif if its excessive,uneven and flaking etc then I would pull em,soak em and maybe media blast them with a light abrasive like wallnut shells etc.clean the grooves and rering and bearing to the rods.
in the end imo its just one of those things that comes with experience but in my opinion I am against cleaning in the block as I personally feel that if its to the stage of needing it then I mine as well do a proper rering,clean and fresh bearings for cheap insurance


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Thanks. I've been waiting for someone to give me a good answer on the piston cleaning and really haven't gotten any good consensus. I'm going to inspect them again this weekend and see how nasty they are. If it just looks like a light coating I'll just throw the head on, but if it looks flakey like you said then yea, it's time for a re-ring bla bla bla, which I really didn't want to get into. 
Tomorrow should be a nice day so hopefully i'll get some work done on it.


----------



## wyliej (Dec 21, 2007)

*Re: (sicklyscott)*

i`m building the same engine.The aba engine i came accross only had 80 thousand kms on it.rebuilding the bottom end wasn`t that bad
price wise.Spending the extra to know that my engine will be close to new was worth the piece of mind.The machine work was actually not that bad.I rebuilt the head myselfe,I had to get the valve seals replaced and i got the deck brought to a mirror finish.The block went in and got honed.I had the block cleaned up a little better.The crank went in and got pollished.Prices for the above were
$45-valve seal install
$65 head deck
$45 check valve installed height vacumm test.
$50 crank polish
$65 hone and block cleaning
I payed about $500 for the gaskets, bearings, seals, and rings, for top and bottom end.


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

bump nothing else?i am building this same engine.. what turbo are you running? i have a garrett t25 from a nissan rd20det, factory set at 12psi. internally wastegated.
i plan on replacing every seal and bearing since the obd1 bare block. it has the crank installed but the po spun a rod bearing.. i feel that is going to one of the most expensive details. i work in a machine shop so i will be able to square the head and block my self but still have to get them dipped and cleaned..
i plan on using the aba piston's and so far i have read that it will be approx. 8.5:1 comp. now if i get a aba head spacer that will lower it to 7.5:1, to low??? i plan on using c2 software 4bar reg, 42# injectors, and 3in vr maf housing.. 



_Modified by Mylch at 4:49 PM 1-14-2008_


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (Mylch)*

if you deck the head or block(I recommend if you can to do so but just the absolute min) you will have to check the piston clearance of the rotating assembly (again no matter what has to be done imo ) as for compression you really dont need to go below 8.5-1 and imo I wouldnt








c-2 is good stuff but I doubt with the 8v's more aggressive timing over what the 16v's run a off the shelf chip will work too well........not to fear I am sure c-2 can get this sorted for you as these days they more than likely have a file for the 16v or can work one for you but again contact them on this


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *not SoQuick* »_if you deck the head or block(I recommend if you can to do so but just the absolute min) you will have to check the piston clearance of the rotating assembly (again no matter what has to be done imo ) as for compression you really dont need to go below 8.5-1 and imo I wouldnt








c-2 is good stuff but I doubt with the 8v's more aggressive timing over what the 16v's run a off the shelf chip will work too well........not to fear I am sure c-2 can get this sorted for you as these days they more than likely have a file for the 16v or can work one for you but again contact them on this










When you say off the shelf chip what are you refering to.. tt, autotech etc. 
as for the block and head shaveing, i work with .0001 tolorances daily. first i am going to check and see how much they are out.. what do you think the reccomended tolorance is? i herd any thing from .002-.005 is acceptable..
j/w if any one knows hat would help


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

Looks like you two have your builds well on their way. I finished digging into the ABA block to replace the 16v specific parts i.e. oil pump, and everything looks straight foward. I'll post some pics after i edit them. 
The rest of this build will take a while, I plan on wire brushing the block down, repainting the block and replacing all the gaskets. Unfortunately i can't paint until the temp goes up a bit.
Oh and for reference, I have a stunning T3/T4 .60/.63 turbo with a stage 3 compressor wheel. I'm not sure if this is too big yet and if I'll get compressor surge but with the 8-8.5:1 compression, a healthy shot of NOS isn't out of the question.


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (Mylch)*

to be honest I dont know on the tolerances,I have a very good machinist I have dealt with for years and have always conveyed to him my intentions and he does what he does........sorry cant be much help here,if you get no answers I can ask him in a few days as he is working on a mg block for me now 
as far as off the shelf I was referring to the common c-2 program that runs 42#'s on a 8v(I assumed this was what you where referring to) .......your tune will have to be for a 16v as the 2 heads respond best to different timing maps among other things.........again nothing that I think c-2 cant handle but best discussed with them imo


----------



## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

I'm in the process of building this motor aswell. 
Lastnight I put oil and coolant and hooked everything up and attemped to start it up.
Right now it wont start so I have some trouble shooting ahead of me.
It has spark and the fuel has pressure


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

What are you running as a harness?


----------



## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Mylch)*

I'm running stock right now.


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

anyone have any more information on checking the clearances?
I have a fresh ABA block and 16v head, both of which were shaved ever so slightly to even them out. Running 9:1 JE pistons (with valve grooves) & Scat rods.
Is checking the valve/piston clearance something I need to worry about or do the valve grooves take care of that?


----------



## sicklyscott (Jun 24, 2002)

You should be alright with the valve grooves.


----------



## shockrocker16 (Dec 15, 2007)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (sicklyscott)*

i picked up a 1.8 16v can i use the oil pump, ect. if i adapt the pick-up tube to the aba oil pump? will i run into other problems?


----------



## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (shockrocker16)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shockrocker16* »_i picked up a 1.8 16v can i use the oil pump, ect. if i adapt the pick-up tube to the aba oil pump? will i run into other problems?

You need the guts from a 2.0
the 1.8 16v IM shaft/oil pump won't work in the ABA block.
personally, I went the route of the BBM IM shaft gear, lightened ABA IM shaft, new ABA oil pump because I didn't want to waste time finding a 16v and using a well-worn 16v oil pump.
To the OP... how's this project going?


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (derekste)*

Nice Write up


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (mocas)*

i am in the process of my build as well im just worried about my bottom end i want as much hp out of it as i can my head is all built and my bottom end has 96k on it. Does anybody have an opinion on how much hp the stock obd1 aba bottom end can handle? Also i just placed my head on the block with the #4 cylinder at tdc and the cams for that head down and they were tuching by alot is this going to be a problem. Maybe i had the intake side open on tdc when its supposed to be pulling down? Any help would be appreciated thanks guys Excellent rite up


----------



## 20B_envy (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (luv2exl8t)*

where'd you get the headwork and how much did it cost you?


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (20B_envy)*

i bought a engine that was a stroker 1.8l out of a 87 scricco with 0 miles on it i had all the paper work i traded the bottom end and kept the head techtonics tuning did all the work


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: ABA/16vT for dummies (luv2exl8t)*

nvmd i just figured out my problem it was the intake cams being fully opened at tdc when the piston is supposed to be comming down to suck air in


----------



## 20B_envy (Mar 16, 2006)

How's it coming?


----------

