# Lifter noise and oil recommendations



## LGA (Oct 21, 2003)

I'm getting an intermittant tick - sounds like one lifter (well, hydraulic cam follower, technically). Happens at idle after running at moderate speeds - goes away above 2000 RPM. This 2.0 has had fresh Mobil 1 5W30 every 5000 miles since 10,000 - now has 58,000 miles. What, if any, additive could be added to free the lifter up with my synthetic oil? And, how much?
Also - oil recommendations on our new 1.8T? It's coming up on 3000 soon, and would like to know if the Mobil1 is OK for it, and at what mileage. 
Thanks,
Lee


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## finklejag (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: Lifter noise and oil recommendations (LGA)*

I would recommend Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40. This is what I use. The manual calls for a 5W-40 oil. A 40 weight oil will help out with your ticking sound. Mobil 1 5W-30 isn't the best oil out there. It shears down to a 20 weight after 2,000 miles. Delvac 1 is marketed towards the diesel crowd. It meets all specs for gas engines. Its kinda of hard to find. Look up your local Mobil distributor in the phonebook. They will have it, or buy it from here.  Avlube  It only comes in 1 gallon containers. The 2.0 takes 4.0 quarts and the 1.8T takes 4.3 quarts I believe.


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## Bananarama (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: Lifter noise and oil recommendations (finklejag)*

Well, you're half right...the 2.0 takes 4.2 quarts.....and I would recommend using Mobil 1 0W40 with a Mobil 1 filter...I had the same problem with mine currently at 42,000 and just finished an oil change on Saturday...noticed a great improvement, not only in the reduction of the noise, but the engine is quieter as well overall...
going with 5W30 is only going to break down quicker, hence more oil changes and more money spent...try 0W40... If you're too uncomfortable with changing your oil every 10,000 miles, then change it at 5,000. 
Also, IF you're doing the change yourself, remember to get a new Smash ring for the oil plug...will save you from getting a leak...I know, I had one at 20,000


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## LGA (Oct 21, 2003)

*Re: Lifter noise and oil recommendations (Bananarama)*

The 0W40 reommendatio makes sense. I always change my own oil, and keep the washers around for it. I went to A-zone tonight - they had one bottle








But I'm all over it now - I will find this stuff. I'll let you know if that fixed it.
Now I'm wondering if I can go to synthetic in the '04 Vert yet - it is only 2500 miles old...any thoughts?
Thanks,
Lee


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: Lifter noise and oil recommendations (LGA)*

Hey Lee... it's Niki/Sophea here! Long time no see...
How are you and Beth and the bugs?
Is the "ticking" you're hearing from the valve-train or fuel injector?
If fuel injector, have it checked.
If valve-train, use a thicker oil.
More details: 
If you're using Mobil 1 synthetic oils, I don't see the need for 0w-xx or 5w-xx if ambient temp doesn't drop below 40*F. Based on Used Oil Analyses (UOA) for the 1.8T engine, 5w-30 actually holds up better than 0w-40 for extended drains (above 5,000 miles). 0w-40 shears down to almost a 30 weight at about 3-4,000 miles, and 5w-30 shears too but less than 0w-40. The basic guide line is: the wider the gap between the "w" and "-xx", the faster the oil will shear. However, we're seeing more car manufacturers (Porsche, MB, BMW, Corvette) recommending these world-wide, one-size-fits-all-oils (i.e. 0w-40, 5w-50) because they're convenient... and the fact that Exxon/Mobil corporation compensates them to endorse Mobil 1. 
For our NB 1.8T, I use Mobil 1 10w-30 for the colder months and a mix of 10w-30 & 15w-50 for the summer. Oil & filter changes are done at every 7.5-10k. They (10w-30 & 15w-50) are the best in terms of shear stability and 15w-50 has the most robust additive package of the Mobil 1 line-up. Slightly thicker viscosities will also help reduce valvetrain noise and oil consumption. I would use 15w-50 straight year-round but gas mileage would take a hit. A friend and auto-x nut I know runs 15w-50 year round in his Porsche 944S, 944S2, 944 Turbo S (chipped) and Audi A4 1.8T (chipped) for years now with no ill effects. All his cars are tracked except for the 944S2, and all see 10k oil changes except when tracked heavily. 
Go here for more lube/filtration info: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php
The '04 Vert (1.8T) should wait till 5k before switching to synthetic. With our NB, we used the once free 24k/2yr oil changes before going to Mobil 1. It actually took 20k for the gas mileage to settle to 24-26 mpg. 
Hope that helps...










_Modified by Cadenza_7o at 5:36 PM 1-7-2004_


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## LGA (Oct 21, 2003)

*Re: Lifter noise and oil recommendations (Cadenza_7o)*

Niki!
It's been awhile - need to get together at a Socal event or otherwise.
Your well-reasoned oil discussion is what I was looking for. Of course, the new conventional wisdom says you need to have quick flow of oil at start - thus, the 0W-40. But if the synthetics are "shearing" back to lower viscosities, that is a concern too. Not only am I concerned for the Beetles, but my '02 Vette came from the factory with 5W-30 Mobil 1 as the only acceptable fill. Chevy says 10W-30 is OK in hotter climates...
So - what proportion of 10w-30 amd 15w-40 do you use in summer? Do any other synthetics shear less? And is the shear effect over mileage, not just as the motor heats each drive? Could changing the 0w-40 at 3000 be the way to go, neglecting cost? 
Thanks man - hope to see you soon - hi to your lovely lady.
BTW - when should one change the manual tranny lube? 
Lee http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: Lifter noise and oil recommendations (LGA)*

In recent years, manufacturers have been recommending thinner oils. A major force behind this movement is the push for better fuel efficiency by various agencies like CAFE, CARB. Thinner oils have less friction, allowing the engine to rev easier and consume less fuel. The idea is to improve gas mileage, even by the smallest fraction, for millions and millions of cars. 
Thinner oils work fine for daily use and short drains of 5-6k and below, depending on the sump capacity and engine. However, they're more prone to shearing at higher temps and in longer drains, especially in a small turbo-charged motor like our 1.8T. When we drove to Mammoth this summer, the thermostat was hovering at 95-105*F. Oh Mother! After a 6-hr drive at 75-100 mph, I was glad I had 15w-50 in the crankcase for that trip. 

_Quote »__So - what proportion of 10w-30 and 15w-40 do you use in summer?_

- 2 qts 15w-50 & 2.5 qts 10w-30 brings the viscosity closer to 15w-40. When ambient temp is 50*F and warmer, there's really no need for 0w-xx or 5w-xx. Such grades really shine when it's 40*F and below. 

_Quote »__Do any other synthetics shear less?_

- M1 10w-30 and 15w-50 maintain their grades well due to the narrow gap between "w" and "-xx"... they require less IV Imp (see next paragraph). For better stuff, Redline just released 5w-40. Here's a sample UOA: http://theoildrop.server101.co...00000

_Quote »__And is the shear effect over mileage, not just as the motor heats each drive?_

- Both. Heat induces shearing but an oil will shear faster if its base-stock is weak/cheap and/or a large quantity of Viscosity Index Improvers (VI Imp) was used to maintain the wide "multi-viscosity" range... i.e. 0w-40 or 5w-50. VI Imp molecules are the first to deteriorate. And as they go, the oil begins to fall out of its grade and shear. The longer the oil is in used, the more it shears till it thickens up (sludging). 

_Quote »__Could changing the 0w-40 at 3000 be the way to go, neglecting cost?_

- Draining every 5k (or less) with either M1 0w-40 or 5w-30 will be fine. Nothing to worry about! Even a good quality "regular" oil will do just as well... i.e. Chevron Supreme, Pennzoil, Castrol GTX. Synthetics provide a clear performance advantage in "extreme" cold/heat environments, in extended drains and on the race track. Personally, I use only use synthetic for the following reasons: 
1. Turbo-charger gets extremely hot 
2. Extend the drain interval (less work for me)
3. Sophea visits her brother's family in Vegas 3-4 times/year. The drives there and back have been either too hot or too cold. And when summer comes, we go camping/backpacking. Our bug Guido is no Posie Sniffer.







He sees elevation gains of 6,000-9,000 ft several times each summer. 

_Quote »__BTW - when should one change the manual tranny lube? _

- Every 50-60k would be fine. 30k for auto/Tippies because the worn friction material has no where to go. By the way, you've got a fine Tippie in your Vert. It's made by Aisin... possibly the best in the industry. Supplier to Lexus, Toyota, Porsche Cayenne/Touareg. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Sophea says "Hi" and we hope to see you soon... 
Niki










_Modified by Cadenza_7o at 3:25 AM 1-9-2004_


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## Bananarama (Dec 19, 2003)

See, you guys are in CA....Right now it's 8 deg out here in PA...where my car runs nothing but highway miles at 85-90 mph. Averaging 28.65 mpg....0w-40 works fine, especially at 7-10k intervals...As for operating temps? I couldn't tell ya, my damn gauge from Egauges.com hasn't arrived yet to be installed in my pod








Granted, I have a 2.0..so My performance is going to be different then a 1.8T...
boils down to basically what YOU are comfortable with....how many times YOU want to change oil, and HOW much you want to spend....I have a friend that has a 98 with over 200,000 miles on her and used nothing but 0w-40 Mobil 1...changed at 7-10k....


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: (Bananarama)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bananarama* »_See, you guys are in CA....Right now it's 8 deg out here in PA...where my car runs nothing but highway miles at 85-90 mph. Averaging 28.65 mpg....0w-40 works fine, especially at 7-10k intervals...As for operating temps? I couldn't tell ya, my damn gauge from Egauges.com hasn't arrived yet to be installed in my pod









This is exactly what I mean... 0w-XX or 5w-XX is perfect in your current climate condition. We have a difference of at least 50-60*F between us; I can still walk in shorts/T-shirt outside here at night! The difference in pourpoint or flow between 0w-40, 5w-30 and 10w-30 or even 15w-40 is insiginificant. 

_Quote »_Granted, I have a 2.0..so My performance is going to be different then a 1.8T... boils down to basically what YOU are comfortable with....how many times YOU want to change oil, and HOW much you want to spend....I have a friend that has a 98 with over 200,000 miles on her and used nothing but 0w-40 Mobil 1...changed at 7-10k....

You can go 10k between changes with the 2.0. It's a solid motor operating at MUCH lower stress than the 1.8T. The turbo-charger spinning 100,000+ rpm beats up on the oil. It's best to use "Used Oil Analysis" to gauge your oil changes. The wear difference between a synthetic and a good dino (regular) oil in 3k drains is insignificant to justify using synthetic. There have been many who are set with 3k drains, who didn't see less wear using synthetic, so they switched back to dino oil. 


_Modified by Cadenza_7o at 3:54 PM 1-9-2004_


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

If Porsche mandates Mobil1 0w-40 for it's $400k Carrera GT, than it's certainly good enough for my almost $30k VW!


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: (Pelican18TQA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pelican18TQA4* »_If Porsche mandates Mobil1 0w-40 for it's $400k Carrera GT, than it's certainly good enough for my almost $30k VW!

From Porsche regarding the lubrication system on the Carerra GT: 
*Oil is circulated through a series of ten pumps, nine of which 'scavenge' the oil back from the engine. This 'dry sump' configuration ensures consistent lubrication, even under the extreme lateral loads possible in the Carrera GT. The external oil reservoir is incorporated into the gearbox casing, where it uses an integrated air separator to defoam the oil. A dedicated oil cooler is also provided to help limit engine temperatures.*
Different technology all together...
Porsche's cooling & lubrication systems are built for the track. Their coolant capacity and radiators are generally oversized compared to regular cars of similar displacement and # of cylinders. For example, the 4-cyl 944 holds ~7 qts and the air-cooled 6-cyl 911 holds ~11 qts. They also have oil coolers to keep oil temp at bay and consistent. The oil cooler in the NB 1.8T is mickey mouse compared to that on a 15-yr 944. For daily use, our 1.8T will put more stress on oil than most Porsches. Mobil 1 is good (not the best) but its stability is still dependent on the designs of the cooling/lubrication systems and components like the oil-pump, valvetrain, crankshaft and turbo. 
Look at this UOA sample of M1 0w-40 (1.8T engine): http://theoildrop.server101.co...00315
Notice the shearing and loss of viscosity, even more so than 5w-30. 


_Modified by Cadenza_7o at 12:11 AM 1-11-2004_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

Another option is the Shell Rotella T synthetic 5w40. It's not a PAO base stock. But it's $13 a gallon, for cheaper oil changes.
Shell touts its base stock is the same base stock as the Helix oil used in Ferrari F1 engines.
I'm a D1 person myself, but $13 a gallon versus over $20 a gallon for D1....it's very tempting to switch over.


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