# Persistent 'Check Engine Light' on W12 (includes TB 01-07-22)



## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

My '04 w12 with 33k miles has been in the shop most of the last three weeks because of a check engine light. First the flow meter was replaced...light came back on in a few days. Then "carbon buildup" in one cylinder was cleaned...light came back on in a few days. The first "fix" was charged to my VW extended warranty. But the second was not...blamed on "wear and tear"...cost me a few hundred on top of the grand or so to replace the tpms senders (don't get me started on that damn system). Now I'm told the "cleaning" of two cylinders will take three days and won't be covered by warranty.
Dealer has had "VW tech support" in to advise them. They do not seem to know how to fix the problem and, of course, it won't pass emissions. It runs absolutely perfectly (except it burns a quart of oil every 500 miles).
I asked why the warranty won't cover this. Part of the answer is that the warranty "does not cover diagnosis". 
Gotta say that VW's stature is shrinking fast in my perception. Their own warranty seems to be a scam and they cannot build an engine that lasts 35K miles.
How should I handle this? I'm trying to work with the guys in service and I agreed to another couple hours of "diagnostic" labor charges. I asked them to have the warranty rep and service manager call me...so far no call.
Help!
Anyone want to buy a pristine '04 w12 cheap?


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## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (rbn3)*

How cheap are we talking for your car???? Just kidding....!
Using that much oil in only 500 miles could be serious, or it could be something simple like a faulty crankcase ventilation system, vacuum or breather hose....or similar...maybe a gasket leak somewhere?
If changing the flow meter temporarily improved the situation....that should give them a clue I would think?
Please let us know how things develop. My 04 W12 has 113k miles on it and it runs great. So these engines are quite well built.


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (testarossaguy)*

Well I've been out of the shop for two weeks. I replaced the TPMS "senders" for $1000 and the system faulted within a week. Shop replaced the module, again. It had been replaced 6 months ago. Check engine light was off long enough to pass inspection. Cold weather is coming, so I expect another long winter of tpms failures. My big concern is that fact that two cylinders required "cleaning" to get the check engine light off and the beast is consuming a quart of oil every 200-400 miles. Is this common for w-12's. It does not seem to smoke and there are no visible "drips".


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## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (rbn3)*

As for the TPMS system, I deactivated mine with vag-com....got sick of looking at the flat tire symbol. You might consider doing the same? 
As for your engine, I'd consider trying a different dealership. In your first post you said they replaced the air meter, was this on the same side of the engine as the 2 "dirty" cylinders? Do you know what 2 cylinders are the problem? Are the "dirty" cylinders adjacent each other? If the dealer "decarboned" the cylinders....how did they do it? Perahps one of the cat-convertors got messed up when they cleaned out the cylinders, causing a check engine light. Did they give you a printout of the trouble codes? 
I wish some others would chime in on this thread, because I would really like to here some other opinions about this. My W12 has been great, but when I see others having problems at very low miles, it worries me a bit.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (rbn3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbn3* »_...the beast is consuming a quart of oil every 200-400 miles. Is this common for w-12's?. It does not seem to smoke and there are no visible "drips".

No, it is not common. I have never added oil to my W12, and never heard of anyone who has needed to add oil to the engine.
You will not see visible drips because there is a big plastic cover underneath the engine and oil pan. However, when you remove the cover, you may find evidence of leaking on the upper portion of this cover.
Michael


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (PanEuropean)*

The check engine light was the reason for the "de-carbon" work, at least initially. So it was not the original problem at least. I am suspicious that the oil consumption is related to the "carbon" problem. Would an oil analysis be of help? I am keeping a log of the oil consumption...the check oil light is on now.
When my '02 500e got a leak I just put diapers on the shield until I got it fixed. BTW, since last year in Illinois 1994 and earlier cars no longer need emission testing. I have 4 '92 Mercedes which never flunked an emmission test...not even my de-catted Renntech 500sl (which makes me wonder if the tests are worth anything anyway).
Thanks for your input.


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

I guess I am having the same problem... Check engine light is always on and the car consumes 0.5 l of oil for every 1000-1500 kms... 
Val


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## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: (valmes)*

WOW...now this is getting interesting, we have 2 W12 cars with apparently the same symptons?
I would guess that your "check engine lights" are caused by excessive emissions, as detected by an O2 sensor.....with the root cause being the excesive oil consumption in the combustion cycle, for some reason. Earlier in this thread I asked the original poster, which cylinders were affected - for the "decarboning" but never received clarification. I'm going out on a limb here, but this is starting to seem like a gasket or sealing problem. But one thing is for sure....all of us W12 owners would like to have more specific information - if it is available.
So please, if you can.....provide as much information as you can about this problem.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (testarossaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *valmes* »_I guess I am having the same problem... Check engine light is always on and the car consumes 0.5 l of oil for every 1000-1500 kms... 

I think I know the cause of this problem, and it's *NOT *the engine.
The problem is the dipstick. Seriously. See this thread: Broken Oil Dipstick - W12 Engine.
If the end of your dipstick is broken off, as evidenced by what you see in the photo below, then:
1) There is other campaign work that needs to be carried out on your car. See the campaign number I referenced in the dipstick thread.
2) You have been inadvertantly overfilling the oil, which causes the engine to blow the oil out somehow, which probably causes the MIL to come on, etc.
Michael
*Note that the two dipsticks are equally aligned at the upper flange. The shorter one has a broken distal tip.*








*You can see that the design has been changed a bit on the new one.*
The part number for the W12 dipstick can be seen on the sticker at the top.


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

I wish it could be as simple as dipstick... here are the fault codes (at least relevant ones to the CEL light):
2 Faults Found 
17499 - Mixture Regulation; Bank 2; Range 1: Rich Limit Exceeded 
P1091 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
18331 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2 
P1923 - 008 - Implausible Signal
Readiness: 0000 0000
1 Fault Found 
17125 - Torque Converter Clutch: Stuck OFF / No Power being transferred 
P0741 - 003 - Mechanical Failure
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2240 /min
RPM: 1568 /min
RPM: 1536 /min
(no units): 1.0
Torque: 484.0 Nm
Temperature: 80.0°C
T.B. Angle: 47.6°
(no units): 4.0
4 Faults Found 
17905 - Secondary Air Injection System: Bank 3: Incorrect Flow 
P1497 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - MIL ON
17906 - Secondary Air Injection System: Bank 4: Incorrect Flow 
P1498 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - MIL ON
19755 - Catalyst System; Bank 4: Efficiency Below Threshold 
P3299 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
19754 - Catalyst System; Bank 3: Efficiency Below Threshold 
P3298 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded


_Modified by valmes at 3:03 AM 11-20-2009_


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

One more thing... looked at the data under auto trans... 
Max. torque = 740Nm







I thought that engine made max 550Nm at 3500 rpm...































_Modified by valmes at 3:26 AM 11-20-2009_


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

First, I resent the insinuation that I have a dip stick problem.
Seriously, it did occur to me that the oil was overfilled. But my dip stick is not broken and I only add oil after the low oil light comes on and I check the dip stick.
I have not been able to find out which cylinders were "decarboned"...service manager sid he's ask the tech, etc.
Yesterday I doubled checked the dip stick (can't believe I'm writing this) and I took the oil cap off only to find the underside has a gummy yellow orange goo on it. I'm thinking the ventilation flaw idea has some merit.


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (rbn3)*

W12, 42,000mi, have never added any oil.
Did have a "carbon" problem within the last year resulting in the dreaded engine light, it was something that goes in the air channel before getting to the engine (mass flow? or something?), got replaced and the technician used a VW decarbonation treatment kit, first things I haven't had covered by warranty, was $350, I think, not sure. I posted my invoice on this forum.
Been fine since.
Have since switched to Chevron, on advice here in the forum to use Top Tier gasolines.
If I may speculate on the case of the person who started the thread, you may be suffering from a technician unfamiliar with W12 or even with Phaeton. It took me almost a year of going around town to finally settle on the third dealer here in my area to find a technician with passion about Phaeton - he's also responsible for Touaregs at his place. Ironically, he's the one closest to my office.
If he leaves for any reason, I'd be seriously concerned about getting rid of my Phaeton!


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (Itzmann)*

I agree about the possible inexperience of the techs. I beleive originally not all VW dealers were "certified" to sell and service Phaetons. One of the reasons for the failure of Phaeton sales in the US has been said to have been the lack of service comparable to that expected by Mercedes and BMW owners of similar high end cars.
I still can't figure out why the "carbon" problem is not covered under warranty. It's not tires and wiper blades. I don't "expect" "normal" wear and tear to cause carbon build up, expecially at 30K miles.


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (rbn3)*

Does the check engine light every really indicate anything important? 
It only monitors emission related systems. Typically that's an O2 sensor, EGR valve, evaporative emission systems (i.e. loose gas cap), or some other non critical function. So long as an engine has proper oil, coolant, air, gas, and spark it’s going to be okay. 
The primary cause of most engine failures are in adequate coolant, oil, or some sort of mechanical failure (timing belt, bearing, gasket, crank, rod, ring, etc.). The CEL system doesn’t monitor any of these systems… just emissions.
Granted if an engine is misfiring badly the old CEL would catch it, but so would the driver if they are at all attune to engine and it’s performance. With the advent of OBDII systems, the CEL has become somewhat of a relic… it’s a hold over from the old OBD days.
Bottom line in my book… Check Engine Light is no big deal. While it might offer a clue to something not working properly, it’s not impending doom especially if the engine is running smoothly.


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## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (Auzivision)*

The CEL can also indicate a problem or potential problem with the torque converter. I agree that in 99% of the cases it is simply something to do with the emissions and not a concern of anything serious.


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (murphybaileysam)*

All good points. Except if the CEL is on the car won't pass emissions testing and can't therefore even be sold.


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (rbn3)*

Since I live in Indiana... I forgot about that point. 
I knew Virgiana and California had smog laws, but wasn't aware of other states. 
I wonder which states require emssions testing. I guess there are 18 of them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (valmes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *valmes* »_
17125 - Torque Converter Clutch: Stuck OFF / No Power being transferred 
P0741 - 003 - Mechanical Failure
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2240 /min
RPM: 1568 /min
RPM: 1536 /min
(no units): 1.0
Torque: 484.0 Nm
Temperature: 80.0°C
T.B. Angle: 47.6°
(no units): 4.0

Hi Valeriy:
For that particular fault code, see this discussion: Transmission Discussions (5 speed, used on W12 Phaetons).
I had that same problem about two years ago. A rubber seal in the torque converter needed to be replaced.
Michael


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for the info Michael




_Modified by valmes at 10:05 PM 11-21-2009_


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (rbn3)*

The saga continues. I gave up on the first VW dealer after CEL came back on 500 miles after the "de-carbon" fix. I have the VW extended platinum warranty with zero deductible. They keep hitting me with billable hours for "diagnosis" but they cannot make a correct diagnosis. The oil consumption was indeed a leak...I had to authorize payment to find the leak. The VW extended warranty is a big disappointment. I have 4 years and 35K miles left on the warranty but I still will not be able to afford this magnificent but fatally flawed machine.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (rbn3)*

I have a similar diagnosis/warranty problem with mine. The rear view mirror randomly moves when I unlock the car. It doesn't always do it and the dealer claims they've never seen it happen. The story is they can't diagnose it until they see it, although how that's going to help with the diagnosis is beyond me, it doesn't generate any codes and I can tell them exactly what it does. Seeing it happen isn't going to make any difference. I don't know what to do next, let them have another go at the next service or give up on that dealer altogether and start again at another dealer. So far I'm only about 2 billable hours into the diagnosis, but I'm no closer to solving the problem than I was when they started.


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## hcrane (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (invisiblewave)*

Are you using the same key every time? The rear view mirror. like the seats and steering wheel are "memorized" Have you seen what happens to the mirror when you cycle through memory 1, 2, or 3 on the seat? Just a guess...


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: check engine light misery/warranty disappointment (hcrane)*

Yes.


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

*is anyone still looking at this? persistent check engine light on...*

I have just bought a 2004 W12, it has a limited dealer warranty, and the orange check engine light is on, been to a VW dealer for printing off the fault codes... catalysts are all low effectivity or not effective enough (has both) the car has been running Shell V Power 99... car had a new gearbox under previous owner, and service record shows this light on, probably the last straw for him, but good for me as car was cheep. A question I have for anyone who might see this and know about it, is - do I need to replace the catalysts? I can go through changing sensors, but there are loads of them. Interestingly, prev owner has had to replace a dip stick - I wonder if he added too much oil after a broken dip stick and fouled the cats, it would probably mean new seals and gaskets and rings too... Any ideas? light has been put out twice now at service, but keeps coming back on, Any help would be great! Otherwise, car is a hoot, very different to my Passat W8


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

> Good for me as car was cheep.


 Yes, but there's usually a good reason for that... In the case of the W12 Phaeton it could be because there are six catalytic converters in the exhaust system and replacing them is likely to be pretty pricey! It would be helpful if you could borrow a VAG-COM and get the exact fault codes from the car. 

Unfortunately, dealer warranties are pretty much useless since they have to be a minimum of three months long but if anything serious goes wrong in that time the warranty company will usually claim that the fault was present when the warranty was taken out. However, you have got the Sale of Goods Act on your side if anything disastrous happens in the first five months of ownership. 

Harry


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

*cheep*

Hi Harry, car was cheap, cheap enough to warrant helping the dealer replace catalysts. I thought there were 4 catalysts. I have the fault codes and can put them up later, thanks for your interest and help!


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## Aren Jay (Jun 9, 2009)

Sea Foam your Phaeton and clean it out. Much less expensive than having your garage do it for $$$ and it works really good. 

www.seafoamsales.com


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

*check engine light fault codes*

Hi Harry, the fault codes from the dealer are:


Motronic engine control 1

5571

3 events detected

16804 P0420 001
Cat. conv. bank1
not effective enough

16814 P0430 001
Catalytic converter system, bank2
Effectiveness too low

18331 P1923 008
Check DTC memory of
Engine Control Module (ECM) 2

Motronic engine control 2

5571

2 Events detected

19754 P3298 001
Catalytic converter system, exhaust bank 3
Efectiveness too low

19755 P3299 001
Catalytic converter system, exhaust bank 4
Effectiveness too low

Many thanks in advance for advice

Nick


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

*check engine light fault codes*

I will have the wheels balanced at a dealer this week, as there is a bit of vibration, but otherwise the car delivers c24mpg on a long run with the cruise control on, and I will have the emissions tested when the car is with the dealer, so will know more. Good economy indicates that there is nothing substantial wrong with it... I hope


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Nick:

It seems that you are getting essentially the same or similar codes on all banks. In that case I would find it hard to believe that all of sudden 4 oxygen sensors or 4 catalytic converters have simutaneously failed. I would look for an upstream source that was common to all banks. One somewhat simple possibility would be a vacuum leak. One possible source of this could be the intake manifold gasket. 

Good luck and I hope it ends up being a simple and not costly solution. 

Jim X


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

*check engine light fault codes*

Hi Jim,

Thanks for that, yes will check that, funny that gasket went on my 2000 Land Rover earlier in the year... showing the benefit of preventative maintenance... I thought it could be the mass airflow meter, but its not saying anything about that, so a thing without a sensor like a gasket could be it, thanks!

Will let you know what pops up

Nick


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Nick:

I also thought about the MAF and related components but again, you have 2 of those. Thus assuming only one is a problem then you should only be getting DTCs on 2 banks. 

The W12 with two V6s can drive me crazy trying to get my wits around 4 banks. :banghead:

Yes, I think all of us would like to know the resolution on this one. If you type the generic OBD codes you received, in a search engine, you find that these errors are quite common accross brands. The real scary part is that throwing parts at the problem seems to be the standard solution procedure. Using that solution on a W12 Phaeton could be very expensive given the number of cats, oxygen sensors and such. Hopefully your tech will proceed from simple and inexpensive possibilities and move until it's resolved.

Jim X


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

Hi Jim, thanks for the advice, I think I will probably inform the dealer who supplied the car, they are a Rolls and Bentley specialist, and see what happens. I'm prepared to leave it, frankly, as I cant see any benefit in switching sensors when sensors probably aren't the problem, or the catalysts - which might just be a bit old and past it - the car is not reading bad emissions - if it was, I would be more concerned. What I dont want is a blown head gasket, or less, a dead engine. So far it works well, reasonably frugal, and with close to 137,000 miles, its probably fair enough. We will see. I will get them to poke around but a visual inspection is close to useless, otherwise its a case of taking things off and putting new things on until it goes away - maybe. Hmmm great car though!

Anybody ever had their wheels aligned? Wow what a hassle!


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*CEL One year later...*

still codes 1497. Two dealers cannot fix it. One proposed $6K to pull the heads. I have tried an Italian tune up, several tanks of shell premium and some Seafoam. The thing is perfect in every other regard. Emissions fault always in the same bank. "Platunum" warranty does not cover it because it is "wear and tear". So I'm done. I have some time before it has to be smogged so I'll drive it awhile longer. Such a beautiful car but fiscally dead at 33K miles. It is 7+ years old and time is as big an enemy of modern cars as miles. The elctronics go nuts. 

Some one who doesn't live in an emissions testing area could enjoy this car by just putting a piece of electrician's tape over the CEL.


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

*CEL*

I have the CEL on, but the fault codes do not indicate the emissions being bad. Just because the light is on may not mean that the car will automatically fail a test.

My dealer says he cleaned the sensors, and refit them, blanked the fault code memory and the light was off for a couple of days. I suggest your dealer can do the same before the test.

My car runs great, so I'm not really bothered by the light.

I will get a visual inspection done, to make sure there are no oil leaks, vacuum leaks, weeping gaskets etc, but it is very difficult to see anything in the engine bay. Another post suggests it could be something as simple as a fuel tank cap, so I will get that changed too.

Bear in mind, that a bit of oil can probably get past the piston rings and into the exhaust, even for a moment, and that will set the light off. The fact that there was an event means the light is on until the memory is blanked. Funny that this is particular to the W12 as I have never had this with my W8. That has sporadic faults connected to the ignition, which is probably down to crap Russian super 98 it gets in Romania.

Good luck.

Nick


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## rbn3 (Dec 29, 2007)

*One year later*

The cel has been off for over 100 miles now. After switching to Shell and running several cans of Seafoam the interval between 1497 codes has lengthened. If this continues I probably can pass the emissions test if I time it right and get enough cycles in. I did not spend the $6K that I was quoted by VW to fix it (without warranty support from VW's "Platinum" warranty. The CEL first came on at 30K miles and I am now at 36k. So much for the "uber" engineering. Still, it's a great ride!

Happy holidays to all.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

I have encountered a similar problem with the CEL coming on. I have posted an inquiry in the VAG-COM forum (probably a better place than our forum to get really detailed technical advice on this). Here's the link, if you would like to follow it: Secondary Air Injection System

Michael


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Wow, an entire section dedicated to just vag-com stuff. I know what I'll be reading up on over the holidays. Thanks for pointing this out.

I scheduled an appointment at VW today for my CEL and wouldn't you know it, it went off on the way there. That and the noise (water pump I think) just inside the driver’s side fender wasn't acting up either. 

For what it's worth, following is my first scan. 

Monday,20,December,2010,21:08:48:41021
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.3
Data version: 20101206
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chassis Type: 3D - VW Phaeton D1
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: WVWAH63D048007875 Mileage: 75180km/46714miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP1.lbl
Part No SW: 07C 906 018 C HW: 
Component: D1-6.0L-AG-LEV G ª5211 
Coding: 0000173
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 254A1E959567

2 Faults Found:
17499 - Mixture Regulation; Bank 2; Range 1: Rich Limit Exceeded 
P1091 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
17573 - Long Term Fuel Trim Additive Air; Bank 1; Range 1: System too Rich 
P1165 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 3D0-927-156.lbl
Part No: 3D0 927 156 N
Component: AG5 01L 6.0 W12 USA 1114 
Coding: 0000102
Shop #: WSC 02120 444 70618
VCID: 336EF0CD2BB3
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 3D0 614 517 R
Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0043 
Coding: 0008397
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3162FAC5D1AF

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 M HW: 5WK 470 26
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0133356
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2F66FCBDC79B

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 759 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1501 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 356ACED525C7

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 008 QX
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0223 
Coding: 0500305
Shop #: WSC 03325 444 70100
VCID: 8004EF01AA85

1 Fault Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 G
Component: Climatronic D1 1132 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 224005898449

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049.lbl
Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 03325 444 58763
VCID: 2E58E1B9C091

1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management 
000 - - 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP2.lbl
Part No SW: 07C 906 018 C HW: 
Component: D1-6.0L-AG-LEV G ª5211 
Coding: 0000173
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 254A1E959567

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 D
Component: 0A Airbag 8.4E+ H07 0934 
Coding: 0012353
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 244C03919E5D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 3D0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 3D0 953 549 E
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 3401 
Coding: 0000232
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2F66FCBDC79B

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 981 
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0321 
Coding: 0005321
Shop #: WSC 03325 444 84671
VCID: E4CCC3915EDD

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway KCAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: F0E4BFC19A25

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 28: HVAC, Rear Labels: 3D0-919-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 158 F
Component: Klima-Bedienteil D1 0117 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2E58E1B9C091

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 157 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E6C8D999A8E1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101 
Coding: 0015500
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 26481999E861

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 760 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1501 
Coding: 0000004
Shop #: WSC 03325 444 58763
VCID: 2D5AE6B5CD97

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 A
Component: NAVIGATION 0147 
Coding: 0000000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3260F5C9D4A9

3 Faults Found:
00003 - Control Module 
014 - Defective
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00384 - Optical Databus 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 C
Component: Dachmodul 0708 
Coding: 0000015
Shop #: WSC 03325 444 58763
VCID: 234E008D9B53

2 Faults Found:
01520 - Rain and Light Recognition Sensor (G397) 
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation
00220 - Connection to Sunroof 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: 3D0-909-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 158 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E7D6D49DAFEB

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 E
Component: 6P HSG 3211 
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 03325 444 58763
VCID: 3260F5C9D4A9

Part No: 3D1 959 701 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104

Part No: 3D1 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104

Part No: 3D0 959 703 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104

Part No: 3D0 959 704 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0104

Part No: 3D0 909 610 B
 Component: 3I HDSG 2320

Part No: 7L0 907 719 
Component: Neigungssensor 0020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 466 
Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST 0115 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: DFC6CC7D77BB

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 65: Tire Pressure Labels: 3D0-907-273.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 273 G
Component: Reifendruckueberw. 0026 
Coding: 0210224
Shop #: WSC 03325 444 58763
VCID: 2A50EDA9FC79

2 Faults Found:
00003 - Control Module 
014 - Defective - MIL ON
01470 - Rear Right Tire Pressure Sensor (G225) 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 66: Seat, Rear Labels: 3D0-959-860.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 860 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 H 1513 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2E58E1B9C091

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: None
Part No: 3D1 955 119 
Component: Front Wiper 2005 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: E6C8D999A8E1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
Part No: 3D0 915 181 D
Component: Batteriemanagement 2800 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 244C03919E5D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 75: Telematics Labels: 3D0-035-617.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 035 617 HW: 3D0 035 617 
Component: Telematik NAR1 0101 
Coding: 0061860
Shop #: WSC 23345 444 59099
VCID: DDBAF6757DB7

1 Fault Found:
01526 - Emergency Call Button (E276) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - MIL ON

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: 3D0-919-283.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 283 C
Component: 03 Einparkhilfe 0807 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2A50EDA9FC79

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

*fault codes... terminal 30 - alternator....*

I see you have a fault code in there relating to terminal 30, which I found is smth to do with the alternator... the alternator on these cars is not a typical service item to change. It is water cooled, and requires the front suspension to be removed and the engine disconnected and lowered out of the engine bay to change. I have just had to do this... fortunately the supplying dealer shared the costs on the far side of a mileage warranty, but within statutory territory. The steel coolant pipe can corrode, so if you have a code warning of a voltage problem, check it carefully. The VW dealer quotes about 25 hours work to change an alternator and the parts are also quite expensive. Leaks, or other problems need to be fixed before the item fails!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Kurt:

I can't see anything at all to be concerned about on your diagnostic scan. In fact, I see a lot to be grateful for.

You have the most appropriate software installed in controllers 07, 17, 65, and 71. The software you have in the navigation CD reader (controller 37) is one iteration out of date, but because you have the 0223 software in your front display (controller 07), you don't have to worry about carrying out the updating process and accidentally up-flashing controller 07.

If you can get your hands on the CD to update the nav controller, that will get rid of all the fault codes listed under your nav controller (37). But, as things sit now, the only problem you might encounter is the occasional inappropriate position shown on the navigation screen, or the occasional slow acqusition of the satellite constellation. In other words, if it ain't broke...

Concerning the "terminal 30" code on controller 07, note that that is an *INTERMITTENT* code, which means that the problem was there at some time in the past, but ain't there now. The rule of thumb for dealing with intermittent codes is to record the history of them as they occur, but to take no action whatsoever unless you are having a problem with that component.

In the case of an intermittent low voltage code on controller 07, that could be caused by something as benign as someone listening to the sound system in the car while the engine was turned off (e.g. waiting to pick up a passenger). It is quite common on the Phaeton to see intermittent low voltage codes recorded occasionally, it is nothing at all to be concerned with.

The two faults in the roof controller are typical of every Phaeton, these two do not indicate a problem, instead, the fault codes appears as a result of VAG-COM not filtering them out. They can be disregarded, they don't indicate any kind of problem.

Michael


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

PanEuropean said:


> Kurt:
> 
> I can't see anything at all to be concerned about on your diagnostic scan. In fact, I see a lot to be grateful for.
> 
> ...


Michael,

As always, thanks for your input. I wasn’t too concerned about most of the codes except this one:

Address 01: Engine Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP1.lbl
Part No SW: 07C 906 018 C HW: 
Component: D1-6.0L-AG-LEV G ª5211 
Coding: 0000173
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 254A1E959567

2 Faults Found:
17499 - Mixture Regulation; Bank 2; Range 1: Rich Limit Exceeded 
P1091 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
17573 - Long Term Fuel Trim Additive Air; Bank 1; Range 1: System too Rich 
P1165 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

It trips the check engine light. I reset the CEL a couple times (using cheap OBD-II scanner) and it keeps coming back. I scheduled a routine oil change and asked them to check this code. It will be interesting to see what they say.

All the rest didn’t bother me much. I’ve seen other scans with more intermittent low voltage stuff. I strive not to do anything in the vehicle without the engine running and ‘top off’ the battery with a Napa charger about every 6 weeks or whenever I notice funny electrical quirks.

Once, and I mean only once, while driving down the interstate the sunroof shade mysteriously opened for no apparent reason. Shortly later it closed by itself and hasn’t misbehaved since. Since the button is way up high I can’t attribute this to inadvertent contact either. My wife and I just looked at each other and said… “that was weird”.

Cheers!


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

I am not sure about rich codes but I know lean fuel codes means vacuum leak. HMMMM I am scratching my head to think what would cause this.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Kurt:

I'm not too well educated about engine fault codes... though I think my learning process is going to start soon enough, because I am getting a repetitive fault code (described on my post in the VAG-COM forum) popping up every couple of months or so.

In your case, the problem should be much easier to identify because it is only affecting one bank of the engine. This implies ruling out the secondary air pump as a cause of the problem, because each pump serves two banks. So, it could be a valve somewhere, or as the poster above suggested, a leak in a hose somewhere.

In any case, your engine readiness code is all zeros, which means a healthy engine. So, if for any reason you need to have an emissions test carried out, just clear the CEL the day before, then take the car in for the test. Be aware that when you clear a fault from the engine controller, it takes a little while (a few miles of driving) for the readiness code to reset back to all zeros. So don't clear the code (the CEL) in the parking lot of the emissions testing center. 

Michael


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## sjglaser (Nov 18, 2009)

Hi,

I too recently got the check engine light on the W12. The fault was the one associated with the transmission requiring replacement of the torque converter (J071 I believe). The car drove fine, however, Stokes VW had dealt with this issue before (they service several Phaetons, including W12s), and they were careful to consult with VW to ensure the replacement of the torque converter was absolutely necessary. 

Í would prefer not to have major surgery performed on the vehicle, but at least I'm reassured by the fact this particular VW dealer has three Phaeton techs, and the most experienced one (has been at this dealership for 20+ years) is doing the work.

Thankfully the work is covered by a warranty (in excess of $4K I'm told). 

Here is my question.... I asked the tech if he felt that we should take advantage of having the engine out to perform some part replacement that would otherwise be very expensive down the road. He said not really...... Based on your experience with W12s, can you think of some part or item that should be looked at while the engine is out?

Thanks in advance

Steve


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm suspect about the secondary air pump because there is an intermittent whine coming from just inside the driver’s fender. I'm not sure, because I believe there is also an auxiliary water pump located there. Just my luck I couldn't get it to act up at the dealership.

Running rich makes me think one of three things. Faulty MAF reading leading to too much fuel, a faulty plug causing incomplete combustion, or a faulty O2 sensor crying wolf. The fact that it’s rich instead lean causes less concern with continued operation, just might consume a bit more fuel.

While they haven’t figured this out, I did get them to inspect the auxiliary radiator and sure enough that needs replacing and would have been at least a $1K job still covered on the real driver. This plus another repairs means I'm at about break even with the premium.

I’m not aware of too many engine issues associated with the W12… in fact I’m not aware of any. I’m going to have to poke around the Audi forums to see if they are having any. Although, it would have been an ideal time to change the headlights. Maybe a timing belt if higher mileage… I don’t know what the expected life is. The more I work of my own vehicles, the more I becoming a fan of if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.


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## sjglaser (Nov 18, 2009)

Hello All,

Here's an update:

I visited the dealer today (the V8 Phaeton needs an oil change), and met with the tech working on the W12. If you read my previous post, I mentioned the torque converter required replacement. As stated by Auzvision the tech commented the engine itself is very robust and there is nothing that needs to be done to the engine. 

He did recommend however changing the upper arm control arms since the bushings are worn and brittle. It's easily accessible with everything taken out. Fortunately, that too is covered by my warranty.

Merry Christmas

Steve


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

sjglaser said:


> ...Based on your experience with W12s, can you think of some part or item that should be looked at while the engine is out?


Hi Steve:

The W12 engine has proven to be a very robust engine, and there have been few (if any) reports of problems with the engine itself or with components attached to the engine.

I did the torque converter O-ring replacement on my W12 (together with the staff from the dealership) about 4 years ago, and it is a really, really long and complex job. It took one very bright technician and myself a full week to remove and replace the engine and transmission. So, going into it, I suggest you plan to be without a car for at least a week, and I suggest the dealership give some careful thought to what hoist (work bay) they choose to put the car in. Fortunately, early January is the least busy time of year for dealer service departments, so, no problems there.

As for parts to check while you have everything out - the only parts on the engine/transmission package that I think you would want to have a close look at are the oxygen sensors before and after the catalytic converters, and this only because if one of those needs to be replaced on a W12, you have to drop the engine. Otherwise, the rest of the inspection consists of just looking at everything to ensure it is in apparent good condition.

I replaced the front wheel bearings, front brakes, and a huge serpentine belt on the front of the engine while everything was taken apart, just because there was negligible extra labour involved in doing this.

You might also want to have a critical look at parts that remain on the body of the car, but are now exposed for easy access, such as the windshield washer tank, the horns, the two supplemental air pumps, the parking brake cables, stuff like that.

I'll post some pictures later on showing the engine removal process, and what the vehicle itself looks like once the engine is out. The level of disassembly is startling.

Michael


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## sjglaser (Nov 18, 2009)

Hello Michael

Thanks for your reply.

The tech is very thorough... with the holidays he doesn't expect to be done until the end of the first week of January. It's OK though.... the car is on a hoist, in a climate controlled work area.

I forgot to metntion that the engine is NOT out..... They have the special table to place the engine, however they are utilizing a different VW fixture that is over the hood, and attaches on to the frame (at the front of the vehicle), and the engine is basically "hanging" from this hoist. So the engine is NOT out. Of Course the transmission as well as many components are out, but the engine itself is still in the engine compartment.

I was amazed to be looking underneath a 7 year-old car, Everything was in such good shape.

Fortunately, this particular car had the brakes and bearings replaced just before I bought the car.....

With respect to the torque converter, the tech told me he has replaced about 6 or 7.... He is very knowledgeable. He told me early model ZF transmissions had this problem and is well known. 

As a side note, although I could not notice any problem, VW dealer recommended both batteries be changed out..... Somehow the warranty is covering the starting battery, but the service battery is on my nickel... The tech told me although the rear battery could be changed out by the driver, he has noticed people who do it themselves latter run into all sort of electrical problems because they knock out components....

I guess the proof will be in the pudding when I get the car back, in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for all the advice.

Steve


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

sjglaser said:


> ...The tech told me although the rear battery could be changed out by the driver, he has noticed people who do it themselves latter run into all sort of electrical problems because they knock out components....


Very true. See this post: Precautions related to Left Battery Replacement


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## sjglaser (Nov 18, 2009)

Michael,

Thanks for making aware of the battery thread! As I read it I had an "AHA!" moment because about two weeks ago I got a message of a catastrophic nature regarding the air suspension.... However, the car drove just fine...I shut the car down restarted it and the fault was gone...

I did mention this to the tech, and perhaps that's what prompted him to check the batteries.....

Merry Christmas

Steve


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Steve:

Yeah, "Suspension Fault - Workshop" is actually a German language message, when translated to English, it means "The left battery is probably low." 

Michael


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

PanEuropean said:


> A rubber seal in the torque converter needed to be replaced


I have a few questions regarding this matter (Yes I still do... since the CEL doesn't seem to be affecting anything except my nerves... and since I have my engine out anyway - I thought it could be time to take care of that problem)

1) What rubber seal? Or is it not replaceable and the whole TQ has to be changed? 

Here is what I have ordered from ZF... and something in there is supposed to be that "magical rubber seal":










2) Where is that TB related to issue with TQ on W12 (fault code 17125) - there are links to threads that "should" contain a link to TB... maybe I am blind or something, but scrolling through the thread I can' find the damn thing!

PS: Sorry to bring back such an old thread...


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

You might find this more helpful. Looking through it, I think the torque converter is considered a sealed unit so you'll either have to get a new one or your existing one re-manufactured.

Harry


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

Prince Ludwig said:


> You might find this more helpful. Looking through it, I think the torque converter is considered a sealed unit so you'll either have to get a new one or your existing one re-manufactured.
> 
> Harry


Thanks Harry.

Still, a link to the original VW TB concerning the 17125 fault code could provide some insigts to the problem... I can't find it anywhere following the links on the forum... can anyone point me to that particular document?

Re manufacture a torque converter due to a worn out seal?!? Thats how Volkswagen roll... :banghead: I found it first hand when my engine decided to quit... instead of providing a customer with options like pistons, rings, bearings - Volkswagen just says - "buy a complete new engine"! :screwy: Thanks god there are people who are willing to take time and actually "solve" the issues instead of going the "Das auto" way...

PS: On a side note I should mention this... 

Although, I am kind of dissappointed at how VW treats its customers... they just don't give a damn about any problems with an attitude - "just pay us to replace everything... we don't want to invistigate, we just want your money!"...

... I was really surprised to get help from... Bentley! Those people do care!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Please see also the 'master discussion' (the discussion that is listed in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category)) for problems with the 5 speed transmission that is used in the W12 powered Phaeton.

Here is the link to that discussion: Transmission Discussions (5 speed, used on W12 Phaetons).

I have posted TB 32-06-01 to that discussion.

Michael


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## valmes (Oct 27, 2009)

Thanks Michael, now I can see them all!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

PanEuropean said:


> I did the torque converter O-ring replacement on my W12 (together with the staff from the dealership) about 4 years ago, and it is a really, really long and complex job. It took one very bright technician and myself a full week to remove and replace the engine and transmission...
> 
> I replaced the front wheel bearings, front brakes, and a huge serpentine belt on the front of the engine while everything was taken apart, just because there was negligible extra labour involved in doing this...
> 
> ...


*Pictures of the Process (W12 Engine and Transmission Re & Re)*




































*A good picture of the serpentine belt on the W12 engine*









*Where the air conditioning compressor lives*









*Various Secondary Air System (Emission Control) Parts*









Another view of one of the secondary air pumps.









*Amazing what you find when you look under the car... guess the factory ran out of the 'premium' brand VW part, and had to make do with a substitute from another brand.*









*The torque converter, showing approximately where the rubber O-ring is located.*









*All this trouble and disassembly to change this one little O-ring.*
But - it got rid of the fault code and the check engine light.









I have attached the TB that describes the fault that requires replacement of this O-ring below. This TB is only valid in North America - it is an emission-related thing, the only consequence of the 'problem' with the O-ring is that the Check Engine Light illuminates. The vehicle itself continues to work without problems.

Michael


----------

