# 180 hp non Fmic options?



## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

ok i have a TT i am building but i dont want to run a Fmic with my frankenturbo , what are the options?


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## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Run 225 dual side mount IC's? but with the franken turbo you'll want something that cools the charge better... Maybe you could do a short ram air to waterIC. Get driver side intake and put the AWIC where the battery was.


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## MKllllvr28 (Sep 15, 2005)

Your options are the same as any other mk4 1.8t. Upgraded side mount, the twin side mount setup off a tt225, the tyrol sport dual side mounts with the rest of a 225 setup, or an air to water set up.


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

^ shall someone explain air to water? what is it? how does it work?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

MKllllvr28 said:


> Your options are the same as any other mk4 1.8t. Upgraded side mount, the twin side mount setup off a tt225, the tyrol sport dual side mounts with the rest of a 225 setup, or an air to water set up.


They are not. Look at the front bumpers and you will see that the mk4 is boxed where the TT is rounded. The larger smic's dont fit without a good bit of modifications



Mantvis said:


> ^ shall someone explain air to water? what is it? how does it work?


You use water to cool the charge instead of air. You run a pump, rad, and reservoir just like the engine cooling system.


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## MKllllvr28 (Sep 15, 2005)

I was under the impression that they would fit because I've seen mk4 guys use the 225 setup. But I guess it doesn't work the other way around. Good to go then. Thanks for the clarification Cincy. :thumbup:


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## regal7point5 (Oct 2, 2009)

cincyTT said:


> They are not. Look at the front bumpers and you will see that the mk4 is boxed where the TT is rounded. The larger smic's dont fit without a good bit of modifications


What modifications would be required to fit the large SMIC's? Bumper mods? Removing/cutting lower grille? I have the 180Q and am looking to keep from having to get the 225TT intake manifold. What about doing a front mount with "same side" inlet/outlet?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

There is cutting of the bumper and I believe parts of structure to fit a wide smic. I'm not sure if a taller Tyrol will slide right it or not. I'm sure if you contact them, they can confirm.


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## The_RoadWarrior (Nov 21, 2011)

cincyTT said:


> There is cutting of the bumper and I believe parts of structure to fit a wide smic. I'm not sure if a taller Tyrol will slide right it or not. I'm sure if you contact them, they can confirm.


The TT specific Tyrol SMIC's fit without any real modification. Maybe you were thinking about mounting VW ones to a TT but the TT specific ones have cores and mounting braket designed for the TT :beer:.


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## regal7point5 (Oct 2, 2009)

The_RoadWarrior said:


> The TT specific Tyrol SMIC's fit without any real modification. Maybe you were thinking about mounting VW ones to a TT but the TT specific ones have cores and mounting braket designed for the TT :beer:.


I was looking on google images and parts dealers pictures to see what the difference was in dimension/mounting points/inlet and outlet and they appeared to be pretty much the same....but it is just a guess from the pictures. I'd like to just run one large SMIC or a "same side" inlet/outlet FMIC. I don't want to have to switch intake manifolds and don't like the cluster of piping of a traditional FMIC...seems to be a long journey for the boost to go 

Something like this...though I would like to find a non-ebay one...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intercooler...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a64b96202

Or just buy one of the large SMIC's and give it a try...if it doesnt work out, I could certainly sell it to a friend with a jetta.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The OEM TT225 side mounts are good to ~235g/s airflow. Unless you're planning on an F23 conversion, I'd recommend you pick up a used pair of side mounts.


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## regal7point5 (Oct 2, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The OEM TT225 side mounts are good to ~235g/s airflow. Unless you're planning on an F23 conversion, I'd recommend you pick up a used pair of side mounts.


Doug, you must have been reading my mind...I would like to go with the Frankenturbo once this turbo shows the slightest sign of giving up (150K+). My thoughts were the F4T to keep the stock layout (intake, downpipe, etc), but the intercooler setup will be a limiting factor. I guess that means I *need* the F23, FMIC, and all the goodies...just needed you to say that so I can convince the wife


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## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

i ended up getting a CTS fmic kit . no cutting( bumper etc) and it looks great and room to grow down the road and will really keep the AIT down, I looked into the dual sidemount and it was 600- 900 after the manifold and the little things . the fmic was a bit less and looks boss


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

EvilVento2.oT said:


> i ended up getting a CTS fmic kit . no cutting( bumper etc) and it looks great and room to grow down the road and will really keep the AIT down, I looked into the dual sidemount and it was 600- 900 after the manifold and the little things . the fmic was a bit less and looks boss


Your now struggling radiator and the rest of the motor as a matter of fact is not liking you though. You have fixed IAT control by hurting coolant temperature and to some degree oil temperature (remember our Audis use an oil/water heat exchanger to cool the oil). You may get away with it if you are not pushing the car and only DD, but I know that all the real tracked TT with a FMIC and no external oil cooler have both oil and coolant heat issues. 

Maybe you should have taken the extra cost of an upgraded radiator and external oil cooler into consideration. The good thing is that you can still do them, just more overall cost at the end.


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## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

how is the radiator struggling? it wont see much track time , its a roadster and fwd . i have logged coolant temps and oil temps and seen nothing out of whack . in theory i can see your point we have about 7 days a year its over 95* and 6 months out less then 50 degrees. i have built a few turbo cars . mk3 8v , mk3 20v, cabrio vrt . i have added some " waterwetter" and seen 15* drop on hot days. from what i can see more of the core is behind the covered bumper then below it. with the majority being in the grill section


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

EvilVento2.oT said:


> how is the radiator struggling?


Like I said, if you never push the car you will never reach that point where it is problematic.To answer your question, the OEM radiator with all the available airflow going to it, has a hard time as it is to keep coolant and oil to acceptable levels when pushed hard ( I have water wetter, straight distilled water and other cooling mods and I still have problems without a FMIC ). With a FMIC blocking most of the fresh airflow to the radiator, it becomes a real problem ( again only when pushed ). Take it for what it is, I'm just giving a simple advice from my observations :beer:


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## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

please dont think i am arguing , just curious . i mean i do some " spirited driving " so to say . and let things cool . i have some stuff kicking around to set up a aux oil cooler . anything i should look for as far a heat probs go? or beter yet is there a rad option?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

EvilVento2.oT said:


> anything i should look for as far a heat probs go? or beter yet is there a rad option?


With prolonged spirited driving, the oil temperature start to get to uncomfortable levels (scary when it happens) and water temp stabalizes a bit above the middle mark ( an indication that the system is overloaded and no longer efficient ).

There are a few things that can combat this "problem" ( not really a problem per say but asking more than the cooling system was designed to handle especially with a FMIC blocking it). Like you mentioned you would do, an external oil cooler will eliminate the oil problem and alleviate the load placed on the cooling system. There are a few radiator upgrades (Mishimoto and Valeo) that will also increase your cooling capacity. I recommend the 3 row Valeo because it is a true OEM replacement with perfect fitment and a super competitive price tag ($125). 
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-TT_MKI-Quattro-180HP/Engine/Cooling/Radiators/ES2102241/

There are also a few bypass that can be done to simplify water flow on our intricate cooling system ( I will post some schematics for you when I get to a computer).


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Simplified coolant routing. Too many stupid bleed ports in the OEM set up makes for a weak flow to the radiator and key components. You can simplify and bypass some of that crap for real flow and efficiency.



*Diagram for a simpler bypass without coolant bottle relocation*


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Graphing paper. lol Max, what temp thermostat are you using? I run the 82* thermostat in all my 1.8T's. Just curious to your thoughts.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> Graphing paper. lol Max, what temp thermostat are you using? I run the 82* thermostat in all my 1.8T's. Just curious to your thoughts.


I tried it and it helped marginally in racing situations but screwed with the fan activation too much in daily driving that I switched back to OEM ( north east cold starts on Ethanol also took long to get to operating temp ).


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I tried it and it helped marginally in racing situations but screwed with the fan activation too much in daily driving that I switched back to OEM ( north east cold starts on Ethanol took too long to get to operating temp too ).


I can see that being a problem. Being in the south, it isn't. I've never fooled with the fan temp switches, but notice the expected drop in coolant temps while cruising. Thanks. :thumbup:


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## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

thanks man , this looks like something i wanna do !!


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