# New year...new build



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Figured I would put this down. Started collecting parts last fall. Intention was a good daily driver for the 100+ mile daily commute. Goal was for low-mid torque on 87 octane with a shoe-string budget. Going with a MKIV manifold this time instead of an SRI. Also going to retrofit the MKIV air box in as well. Plenty of room, just going to take some custom bracketry and finagling. 
Build parts are as follows:
TT 268*/260 cam 
C2 software 
MKIV intake manifold / fuel rail 
MKIV valve cover 
MKIV engine cover 
MKIV intake tube and air box 
Ceramic coated & wrapped header 
German OBDI head with a dual spring conversion 
Water/Meth kit 
Still waiting on the head. It has no bearing caps, but I have a spare set here at the house. Going to test fit one of my cams into it and torque it down to see how it spins. Might have to get it line bored. But the head itself already had the spring seats opened up for dual spring inserts as well as 40+ hours of port work. The W/M kit is mostly for an added octane boost so I can run the C2 software and keep it at 87oct. I've had the software running the motor over the winter fine one 87, but I won't advance as much on low rpm load. Higher rpms are fine though. I'm expecting it to retard more as the warmer weather arrives. 
Something else I'm going to try is to wrap the entire manifold all the way to the air box with heat resistant wrap. See how that works with lowering intake temps. Also going to wrap the header and see how it works. 
Here is some of the parts cleaned up and painted:








So far I've started port-match work on the header and intake manifold. You can see the material take away to port match so far:








Need some sand rolls and some more stones bad.
Here is how is sits now on the stand. Hopefully can get the head soon and get the manifold porting done so I can get it in for the spring.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

Lemme know if you need anything Travy Trav!


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Eventually Im going to need:
MKIV upper mani gasket
MKIV lower Mani gasket to the head
MKIV valve cover gasket
MKIII head gasket
10 stretch bolts
TB gasket
99-01 air filter
Priced out from GAP is just under $100 _before_ shipping.


----------



## jamesr88 (Oct 9, 2007)

im excited to see how it goes


----------



## vento86 (Oct 13, 2008)

*Re: (jamesr88)*

sell me your sri if you still have it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TMTuned99.5Golf (Jan 27, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Eventually Im going to need:
MKIV upper mani gasket
MKIV lower Mani gasket to the head
MKIV valve cover gasket
MKIII head gasket
10 stretch bolts
TB gasket
99-01 air filter
Priced out from GAP is just under $100 _before_ shipping.









Hey Travis, ever checked out http://www.autohausaz.com ? I just found all that you're looking for, for under $77 _SHIPPED_. They have free 48-state shipping on all orders over $50.
1x - 1J0129620 Mahle-Knecht/Mann Air Filter; Standard 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $12.13 

10x - 056103377 Febi Cylinder Head Bolt; 11mm ID Washer 1995 VW GOLF III $5.20 

10x - 050103384 VictorReinz Cylinder Head Bolt; With Washer; 11x96mm 1995 VW GOLF III $14.10 

1x - 06A103383L VictorReinz Cylinder Head Gasket 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $27.74 

1x - 037129717C VictorReinz Intake Manifold Gasket; Lower 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $2.83 

1x - 06A129717 CRP Intake Manifold Gasket; Upper Plenum to Lower Section 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $2.60 
1x - 028129748 ElringKlinger (OES) Throttle Housing Gasket; Throttle Housing to Intake Manifold 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $1.88 

1x - 051103483A VictorReinz Valve Cover Gasket 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $10.01 

Parts Total $76.49 
Refundable Core Deposits $0.00 
Total Before Shipping $76.49 
Maybe that'll help ya out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 1lowGnster (Feb 18, 2010)

What throttle body are you going with for the mk4 swap? What size of exhaust are you running? And why did you decide to go with the mk4 stock air box? just curious....


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *1lowGnster* »_What throttle body are you going with for the mk4 swap? What size of exhaust are you running? And why did you decide to go with the mk4 stock air box? just curious....


- MKIII throttle
- Header<2.5" test pipe<2.5" Jetex system
- Having used an SRI manifold for over 5 years, sound it makes @ WOT is melodic. Going back to a stock manifold and cone filter is the most nauseating sound on the planet. It's pathetic...I would rather no sound. So the stock airbox goes in with a high flow filter and piping to an air scoop behind the bumper.


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (TMTuned99.5Golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TMTuned99.5Golf* »_
Hey Travis, ever checked out http://www.autohausaz.com ? I just found all that you're looking for, for under $77 _SHIPPED_. They have free 48-state shipping on all orders over $50.
1x - 1J0129620 Mahle-Knecht/Mann Air Filter; Standard 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $12.13 

10x - 056103377 Febi Cylinder Head Bolt; 11mm ID Washer 1995 VW GOLF III $5.20 

10x - 050103384 VictorReinz Cylinder Head Bolt; With Washer; 11x96mm 1995 VW GOLF III $14.10 

1x - 06A103383L VictorReinz Cylinder Head Gasket 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $27.74 

1x - 037129717C VictorReinz Intake Manifold Gasket; Lower 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $2.83 

1x - 06A129717 CRP Intake Manifold Gasket; Upper Plenum to Lower Section 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $2.60 
1x - 028129748 ElringKlinger (OES) Throttle Housing Gasket; Throttle Housing to Intake Manifold 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $1.88 

1x - 051103483A VictorReinz Valve Cover Gasket 1999 VW GOLF IV GLS $10.01 

Parts Total $76.49 
Refundable Core Deposits $0.00 
Total Before Shipping $76.49 
Maybe that'll help ya out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


FYI the head bolts AZ sells already come with the washers on them. I was fooled once into buying the extra washers.








Come to think of it every place I've bought headbolts from the washers have always been on them both 8 and 16v.


----------



## 1lowGnster (Feb 18, 2010)

are the mk3 and mk4 fuel injectors the same? Is there any difference in the fuel rail?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

both are 19# injectors, but their physical dimensions are different.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

I'd be interested in the header dimensions, from head to first merge, then from merge to last merge.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_I'd be interested in the header dimensions, from head to first merge, then from merge to last merge.


you got it derek


----------



## 1lowGnster (Feb 18, 2010)

How much power are you trying to push approx?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Not shooting for a specific number. The head is ported for low-mid velocity for a fast-road cam. THis motor is all about torque.


----------



## vdubxcrew (Jul 25, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

Travis, have you thought about running a 1.8t IAT sensor wired to the fender somewhere it can get consistant colder air temps? Alot of guys are now doing this instead of keeping the stock sensor in the manifold where it heat-soaks and retards your timing. If you had the W/M kit on constantly you may benefit from the stock IAT being in the manifold, cuz that stuff will keep the mani like ice=droped temps. You will like it very much in the summer esp. when it gets above 90 degr. It's like driving in Dec air. A good ported TB will help ya with your torque needs as well


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

I'm familiar with that old trick. An easier way to get around manifold heat soak would be to just unplug the sensor all together. The ECU default is 65*, but I think I would get a CEL for that. Besides, what I failed to mention in the first post of this thread, is that I am wrapping the manifold/intake tube with heat resistant wrap to prevent heat soak. Function>form on this build. 
And I havent forgot about sending a TB to you. I just havent got my hands on one yet to send. 
Side note for you: You ever take the sensor portion out of the MAF and sorta reshape the leading angles to make the air flow better around it? Took a broken one apart to inspect...I'm thinking the metal and plastic material can be smoothed out or given a sharper edge to make air flow a bit cleaner over the sensor and through the housing. Thoughts?


----------



## vdubxcrew (Jul 25, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

I do have a few extra MAFs laying around. I'll have to give it a try. Never thought of it actually. Now that you mention it, that may be beneficial. Don't know how it will cause to sensor to react with more air velocity so near it. We won't find out til we try. Way to think outside the box.


----------



## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

the ecu needs to see the IAT sensor, thought of relocating it to the intake pipe?? Airbox?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

yes


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

hmmm i fail to see a turbo listed in this thread.........


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_....87 octane with a shoe-string budget. 


That's why. Unless USRT wants to budget my build.
Also, this is what I had in mind for the IAT re-loc...


----------



## logjammin' (Jan 10, 2010)

Who did the head porting?
Added to my watched http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 1lowGnster (Feb 18, 2010)

what trans are you running? will you be running a catch can? what was your selection on brand for a header


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Stock trans with a Peloquin 80% shim kit installed.
No catch can. 
I bought another OBX header. This one is supposedly ceramic coated. It will replace the OBX on my motor now.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Started wrapping the header this afternoon.


----------



## TMTuned99.5Golf (Jan 27, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

Nice! What's the specs on the heat wrap? I might try doing mine while it's easily accessible.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...35698
This stuff is legit, cant beat the price. Most kits with metal straps go for over $50 for 50 feet or wrap. 
Going to respray it with header paint afterward to further insulate it and make it weather-proof. I also picked up a roll of this from Home Depot. Im going to wrap the upper/lower manifold runners best I can with this stuff to insulate it. Sounds silly, and potentially ugly, but it will all be hidden under the plastic engine cover. And besides, i dont give a **** about appearance. Function>Form. I want my engine bay as cool as possible as well as the air going into my engine.


----------



## 1lowGnster (Feb 18, 2010)

tdogg74 what do you think about a throttle body spacer?


----------



## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Travis hates our cars but wants all our parts!


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jay-Bee* »_Travis hates our cars but wants all our parts!










Travis the NS S/C killer.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Not this time around, thats for sure. Just making a torque monster.
I got a good amount of header wrap left over, so Im going to wrap the intake runners with that, or as much as I can, instead. Someone have an OBDII VR throttle laying around they want to donate?







I want to try to make it work. 
Quintin...you gotta come find me at H2Oi again this year. Come drink some beers with the CBS crew Friday or Saturday night.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Quintin...you gotta come find me at H2Oi again this year. Come drink some beers with the CBS crew Friday or Saturday night. 

that CBS crew gave me the "WTF mk4 kid!?" look last time!! i scared!


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

we're harmless. honest.


----------



## O_Matt (May 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Lets discuss the water/meth.
All the reading I have done on this subject says that it is useless on NA engines unless you are pulling a huge amount of timing. Obviously your feelings are different if you are going with this setup though. Care to share your opinion?


----------



## O_Matt (May 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Just to further summarize:
I read you want to use lower octane fuel, but I am more concerned if it would be worthwhile on a chipped car already using 93.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Im going with a WM kit because it's free. That's pretty much it.
I've noticed about 3*-4* of timing pulled when running 87 over 93 octane with the C2 software. For instance, if Im running 87oct on the hiway in 5th and I lean into it, it drops to about 18*-19*. Same scenario on 93oct, and it sits steady at 22*. 
I figure running the WM kit on a lower setting while running 87oct, it should give me the same timing as if on 93oct. The difference right now between 13 gallons of 87 vs 93 is about $4. My commute is 100 miles a day...do the math on that one.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Im going with a WM kit because it's free. That's pretty much it.
I've noticed about 3*-4* of timing pulled when running 87 over 93 octane with the C2 software. For instance, if Im running 87oct on the hiway in 5th and I lean into it, it drops to about 18*-19*. Same scenario on 93oct, and it sits steady at 22*. 
I figure running the WM kit on a lower setting while running 87oct, it should give me the same timing as if on 93oct. The difference right now between 13 gallons of 87 vs 93 is about $4. My commute is 100 miles a day...do the math on that one. 

w/m will give you more than that.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

More what, Q? Timing? Im curious, what's the octane rating bumped to with WM? Is it more than 93?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

What a bunch of crap. Went to 4 different places to buy MKIV intake manifold gaskets, and shipping was _over_ $10. Really? 
Q, can you help me out with this? Best prices I found was at http://www.autohausaz.com . $5.43 for both gaskets.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_More what, Q? Timing? Im curious, what's the octane rating bumped to with WM? Is it more than 93?



depends on the ratio...as low as 104oct to as high as 116... but just to be fair we'll just say 110oct


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

...oh damn!


----------



## MonkeyBusiness (Jun 11, 2009)

I presume you are trying to make this motor for optimizing gas mileage? if so what kind of MPG numbers are you hoping for?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

I already get well over 400 miles to a tank.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Header done.


----------



## 1lowGnster (Feb 18, 2010)

any updates?


----------



## super_chief (Aug 16, 2008)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
keep it up!


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

*Re: (super_chief)*

Have you ever used the 2.0 passat manifold? If so do you think the MKIV manifold gives better low end? Is there any #s comparing the two that you have seen?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif function>form


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

The Passat manifold is the exact same as the Golf/Jetta manifold.
As for the comparison, this was covered a little while ago...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4687491


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

Cool Thanks for the link. I thought it was slightly different for improved torque.
Sorry back to your thread.


----------



## ikerpup (Mar 27, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_The Passat manifold is the exact same as the Golf/Jetta manifold.

Really? I had heard at one point that it was little longer and had slightly better flow. Although for the life of me I can't remember where I heard that from, so it could be one of those things that sounded plausible to me at the time, but it didn't apply to me, so I didn't really care to investigate further.


----------



## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ikerpup)*

Is this motor ready to be tested yet?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

No. Everything is still mocked up in the basement. Not rushing it at the moment because Im still waiting for the head. I'm focusing on the exterior at the moment...getting it all worked out. I might not even get to the motor this season, who knows.


----------



## echokid98 (May 18, 2007)

who sells a header for the 2.0??????


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

OBX-Ebay


----------



## macanic21 (Feb 20, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

I'm trying to decide between the ceramic OBX and the stainless. Is that ceramic coating anything more than a spray bomb quality job? I had a set of Hooker headers once with ceramic coating that pealed right off. How do you think the ceramics will last as far as rust compared to the stainless? Why did you go with ceramic?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

I have a stainless header still on the motor...which is rusted and looks like ass. The new one I got with the ceramic coat on it. I honestly dont think its anything more than high temp silver spray paint with ceramic sh*t added to it. It is _certainly_ not a real ceramic coat, as the coating alone goes for 10x the price of just the header. Didn't matter to me though because I had planned on spraying it with high temp silver spray paint with ceramic sh*t added to it anyways...just saved me a step. I was going to wrap it and wanted the added rust protection.


----------



## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

What water/meth kit are you planning to run? Usually with 93 octane and 50/50 mix the new octane level is considered to be 116. With 87 and a 50/50 mix his estimate of 110 seems logical.
Did you ever decide where you are going to locate your IAT. I would place it after the nozzle for the water/meth so it will read the lower air temps when spraying.


_Modified by Fast VW at 2:50 PM 5-3-2010_


----------



## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

I'm watching this thread because I want to put a newer 8v in my mk1. With something like this it would be a new car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fast VW* »_What water/meth kit are you planning to run? Usually with 93 octane and 50/50 mix the new octane level is considered to be 116. With 87 and a 50/50 mix his estimate of 110 seems logical.
Did you ever decide where you are going to locate your IAT. I would place it after the nozzle for the water/meth so it will read the lower air temps when spraying.



It's a snow performance kit with the MAF feature.


----------



## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

Looks good so far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You ended up plumbing in the air shroud thing for the mk4 injectors right? That's the small tube coming out of the intake pipe between the MAF and PCV?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Yes, I am using everything from the MKIV: fuel rail, injectors, manifold, intake boot, and the factory air box. The intake boot has all the vacuum lines on it; To the injector rail, and to the crank breather box. I just dont feel comfortable Mickey Mousing MKIII injectors in with doubled up o-rings, when the MKIV injectors are the same 19lbs as the MKIII's. 
This thread makes me want to finish this up _now_...I'm just waiting for the head to get out of the machine shop and get shipped to me. (along with the WMI kit and an OHV spring compressor, which I might start renting out for you guys) Once I get it, it will just be a matter of having a complete day to myself to rip the motor apart and install everything at once. (even if I dont get the WMI working immediately)


----------



## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

I am very eagerly awaiting the WMI kit install on a NA engine. I am using a Snow Performance stage 2 MAF kit on my FI motor and love it. I hope you will post some VagCom logs of timing pull with and without the WMI running.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Yea, I am too. Im running 89oct right now with the C2 software and it runs fine. But it will interesting to see what it advances to when it thinks its getting 106oct (while actually running 87oct)


----------



## super_chief (Aug 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_This thread makes me want to finish this up _now_...

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Looking forward to seeing the MKIV stuff (fuel rail) buttoned up on the swap.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Yea, me too.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Though not engine-related, I did manage to get the exterior up to snuff over the weekend. Got more plans for it still....


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

tdogg74 said:


> Yes, I am using everything from the MKIV: fuel rail, injectors, manifold, intake boot, and the factory air box. The intake boot has all the vacuum lines on it; To the injector rail, and to the crank breather box. I just dont feel comfortable Mickey Mousing MKIII injectors in with doubled up o-rings, when the MKIV injectors are the same 19lbs as the MKIII's.
> This thread makes me want to finish this up _now_...I'm just waiting for the head to get out of the machine shop and get shipped to me. (along with the WMI kit and an OHV spring compressor, which I might start renting out for you guys) Once I get it, it will just be a matter of having a complete day to myself to rip the motor apart and install everything at once. (even if I dont get the WMI working immediately)


 Actually MK4 injectors are rated at 17lbs not 19. I recently chucked a set in my ABA Corrado to replace 24lb-ers that were giving me grief at idle with small pulsewidths. It's quite happy with them, Idle is around 800 with a little cam (260/256) pulling 19+ in/hg and 40+ mpg on the highway


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

17lbs? Are you sure? I was told they were 19lbs. Why would VW put smaller injectors in a (virtually) identical engine in a heavier car?


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

tdogg74 said:


> 17lbs? Are you sure? I was told they were 19lbs. Why would VW put smaller injectors in a (virtually) identical engine in a heavier car?


 I dunno why Travis, but according to this chart: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm they are 16.75lb/hrs. I have checked other sources to compare numbers and without a doubt it is the best and most comprehensive (and accurate!) list of injector info out there. There are some minor discrepencies mostly concerning type (EV1, EV6 etc..) but it is an awsome reference. I use it all the time.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

First off, thanks for that page! Seems that I've been wrong this whole time..the ABA is a 16.75 lb/hr injector, not 19 lb.hr. (VR6 is 19.5 lb/hr) 
Both AEG and ABA injectors are identical with the exception of physical shape. Good, I can stick with my plan to run the AEG injectors as they are the same flow rate.


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Hah! ya know I always thought/had been told that ABA white tops were 19lbs too! (I never looked them up ) That explains why my mild ABA got pissy at idle with the blue top 24s. 25% bigger is one thing but nearly 50% is definately overkill. At least it is batch firing 4 squirts alternating with MS which made for the happiest idle anyhow. Things will be different once I 20/20 the sucker and use the 1.8T cam sensor to go sequential.


----------



## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

Cool link Prof, I checked in the Bentley for flow testing the injectors, the math came out to a little under 19lb/h, guess I was wrong. 

I guess we were all wrong... always thought that the 2.0s (mk3/mk4) was 19... and from what I had heard the VR6 had the same rating.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Also worth noting is the fact that I ran my old set-up on 16.75# injectors without having any lean out issues. No idea if I was maxing them, or close to maxing them out, but I never had lean issues at WOT @ 7500rpm upshifts. 

Another factoid: The Neuspeed software for their supercharger utilizes the stock injectors for 6-7lbs of boost. Yea, its proven it runs on the lean side, BUT, its still stable,


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

tdogg74 said:


> Also worth noting is the fact that I ran my old set-up on 16.75# injectors without having any lean out issues. No idea if I was maxing them, or close to maxing them out, but I never had lean issues at WOT @ 7500rpm upshifts.
> 
> Another factoid: The Neuspeed software for their supercharger utilizes the stock injectors for 6-7lbs of boost. Yea, its proven it runs on the lean side, BUT, its still stable,


 Lean isn't always bad. It can certainly be more dangerous than rich but generally doesn't hurt power as quickly as rich does. Heck I've got 17 to 1 target AFRs for my light load cruise on the 'rado, it runs a stable 189 deg on the highway and gets killer gas mileage.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

I was referring to being in the mid-13's under full boost @ WOT. _That_ kind of lean is _not_ good.


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

glad this is back. 

Are you still planning on heat wrapping the intake?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Yes. I need to start working on the thing again. Been so focused on the exterior and such. Got plans for a front end swap (back to a Golf front with ABT dual rounds) and a friend is sending me a rear mid-wing. Dont know if it will flow well, but we'll see. I'm still waiting for the head to ship, but if I get a full day to myself anytime soon, Im putting the new header, manifold and cam in regardless. I will swap over the new head when it comes and deal with the MWI then.


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Stoked to see updates! Are the OBX headers gone?? I cant find 2.0 ones on Ebay anywhere. Is there somewhere else to get them?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

You suck at Ebay. lol 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eacc2f30c 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5192a2b84c 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/85-9...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item255a86a31a 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/85-9...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item25596f49b6 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/85-9...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item255a7565c7 

...I could go on.....


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

tdogg74 said:


> I was referring to being in the mid-13's under full boost @ WOT. _That_ kind of lean is _not_ good.


 Nope gotta agree with you there. That's where I am WOT N/A.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Yea, low-mid 13afr is perfect for NA.


----------



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

tdogg74 said:


> You suck at Ebay. lol
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2eacc2f30c
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5192a2b84c
> ...


Ha! **** I guess I do suck at Ebay. THANKS!!


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Alright, **** it. I have no idea when I'm going to get that head, so I am going to install the new header, MKIV manifold top end, and the cam this Friday. Gaskets and new header nuts will be here Wednesday.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Quick update:

Was able to sneak into the basement tonight to get some things squared up for Friday. New manifold gaskets, throttle body gasket, and new copper header bolts came from GAP today. Manifolds are all port matched and ready to go. 

I messed around with one of my spare throttle bodies tonight and opened it up a little. Forst thing I did was take a hacksaw blade to the butterfly support and cut one side of it off.










I put a chamfer on the screw holes so they sit more flush to the butterfly. Need to pick some loc-tite up tomorrow, then I can set the screws and grind off what sticks out on the other side.

Didn't remove any material from the front ramps. Just smoothed out the back-side of it to reduce turbulence. But I did remove some from the back ramp. I first opened up the butterfly to where it went past the low throttle 'dip'










I drew a line on the back ramp and removed the material that choked up the bore. THen I wet sanded it all smooth. I did it this way so that on light throttle cruise, I still had that smooth progression and also so it wouldn't turn into an on/off switch. The OBDII throttle bodies do not like the ramps completely taken out. 

So this is the final result...










Doesn't look like much of an improvement, but even stock, the throttle bore isnt a choke point on my set-up. Anything gained is a bonus. I'll have more Friday during the swap.


----------



## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

Nice work on the throttle body! I like the trick about removing part of the support


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

I cant take credit for that. Someone (I forget who, since losing my Notepad info with Vortex 2.0) showed me a pic of the throttles he does and sells. Took 10 minutes with a hacksaw blade. It's the little things like this that make the difference. I've modified a couple other throttle bodies in the past, and always took out too much of the ramps to create more 'open' area. Im hoping this time around, it does the trick.


----------



## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

tdogg74 said:


> Another factoid: The Neuspeed software for their supercharger utilizes the stock injectors for 6-7lbs of boost. Yea, its proven it runs on the lean side, BUT, its still stable,


That's with a 4 bar FPR instead of the stock 3 bar.


----------



## vdubxcrew (Jul 25, 2004)

Looks like you are on the right track with the throttle body Trav. That's what I do to them. You can also take a file to the other side of the butterfly shaft. And also, smooth out that 1/8" flat edge on the inlet opening.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Lunch break. 

Just wanted to share this one pic I took. We'll call this one "substantially larger".


----------



## super_chief (Aug 16, 2008)

verry interested to see how the TB works out.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Ok, done. First turn, _vroooooom_. Idles at 830, rpm is bumpy again  . Smokes like a bastid though....not sure if its the header wrap or the cheap-o ceramic paint/crap that they sprayed on it. WHatever it is, I hope it goes away soon, cuz it stiiiiinks! 

Quick and ugly...










Ran out of time and need to neaten it up tomorrow. Car hauls ass now. That is all.


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

Looking Good!


----------



## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm glad this thread is back! This seems like a really strong motor. I need to build something like this for my mk1.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

THx. Its not where I wanted it to be right now, but I can only use what I have at the moment. Looks like the new head will be another winter project for 2010/2011. :banghead:


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

Glad to see it together and moving under its own power
Yea the header paint stinks, will go away after you run it a few times.

Tell me about the header wrap your using, where did you get it cost, would you use it again. As I'm considering wrapping mine. I've got the head and intake off for upgrades   right now so I've got easy access to remove the headers.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

I _heavily_ browse E-bay every day. I found some guy with, what I would assume, an over-stock of the wrap. I got a roll of 50' and 4 metal straps for (I think) $20 shipped? I jumped on it because Summit/Jegs charges $60 for the same thing. After I started it, it started smoking...I didn't know which it was, so I ran into the kitchen and grabbed the fire extinguisher!  My wife's exact words as I darted in and grabbed it: "Uhhh....WTF did you do to your car now!?" I knew it was the cheap sh*t OBX threw on it smoldering off, I just wanted to stay on the safe side, extinguisher ready! lol. After I let it idle for a bit and felt comfortable the thing wasnt going to spontaneously combust on me, I took it out for a shake-down run. It actually runs better than before now. But the power delivery has changed back to how it was on my previous build..albeit, not nearly as powerful. 1st gear launch, I can feel the the tires wanting to break loose. Pulls up to 6000 now instead of peetering out at 5000. So with a bigger cam, and the new head, power will obviously be better.


----------



## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

tdogg74 said:


> I ran into the kitchen and grabbed the fire extinguisher!


i always keep a fire extinguisher nearby while working on 'projects' and new installs. 

Interesting that you found the manifold swap to be as 'torquey' as i did... 
my Wifes mk2, ABA swap, 272 cam.(lighter car) VS. my (heavy ass)mk3, aba, 272 cam, mk4 intake manifold. My car walks all over hers.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

So I lowere the rear some more and threw on some spacers to even out my stance. Took it out for a cuise to see how bad it rubbed. Took some good hilly back roads. Mid-range is up a lot....which means less of a need to shift. Same on the hiway...lean into the throtle, and it scoots right on. And the work I did to the throttle body, same drivabilty, just less metal in the way at WOT. 

The swap is easy peasy and everyone should do it. Not saying it's better than an SRI, but you can pick up a swap for about one Franklin.


----------



## super_chief (Aug 16, 2008)

awesome. 

so would you suggest a silver hi temp painted header over the 'ceramic' coated one listed on ebay?

plan to wrap it, but not keen on a header with a built in stank break in period.

also where'd you locate the battery to


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

super_chief said:


> awesome.
> 
> so would you suggest a silver hi temp painted header over the 'ceramic' coated one listed on ebay?
> 
> ...


Can't say for sure what caused the initial smoke-show, but it didn't last long. And again, not sure what the condition of the coating was after the initial start with the wrap. My suggestion would be to get an untreated stainless header and either have it ceramic coated yourself, or spray it yourself with a real high temp header spray, then wrap it. At least a 2000* rating.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Exciting new (for me). I'll be recieving a Stage III porter MKIV intake manifold, done by none other than Scientific Rabbit (member ny_fam). You should remember the Thread from the beginning of the year where dynos where done comparing stock manifolds vs ported manifolds. I'll be getting my hands on one to play with. Stay tuned for my opinion on this thing....


----------



## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm thinking about getting my intake port once I add my callaway stage one kit. I just want to make sure that it will help me and not make me run too rich.


----------



## djshortbus1.8T (Mar 21, 2003)

Nice build, similar to what I want to do


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Yea..um...project _cancelled_....:banghead:


----------



## .T.o.n.y. (Apr 3, 2003)

are you kidding me...


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

hahahaha...nope. 9years and $,$$$ of dollars burned to the ground in 22 minutes. 

New hoopty


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

So Trav, any more pics of the carnage aftermath?


Also i forgot if you said in your other thread, any thoughts as to what stated it? Loose fuel line perhaps?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

No aftermath pics. My cell phone went down with the ship. 

I cant think of anything that would have started it. Maybe I ran over some road debris and it caught on fire? I don't know. It wasnt the fuel rail that started the fire, that much I know.


----------

