# APR stage III TT RS Stronic



## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I wasn't going to start a thread on this forum,as I thought there would be plenty of cars also having stage III fitted in the US.
Then I decided as mine's an Stronic, mapping,power performance etc could be completely different to the manual stage III cars,so it could be rather interesting for you guys.

The car was dropped off at APR UK a week or so ago,and this week they've been stripping the car down and starting the re-build.

Stage III kit ready and waiting



making room



in with the new





nice bit of gold heat shielding.



more quality parts



getting lined up



I'll keep updating as the build proceeds,but I'm sure there will be plenty of posts from APR as well,once all testing is finished over the next two weeks.


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

jaybyme said:


> I wasn't going to start a thread on this forum,as I thought there would be plenty of cars also having stage III fitted in the US.


Nice pics! Note the APR Stage 3 kit in the US hasn’t been officially released. I suspect there are various sites and persons of interest who are beta testing the kit right now though. :sly:


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I thought it was already available


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Very cool! Please keep the updates and pics coming!

The posts from US folks getting the kit have been surprisingly light (as in, zero posts).

What's up with the downpipe? Is it required to weld it to adapt it to whatever exhaust you have?


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

This will be the ultimate expression of a street driven TTRS! Looking forward to the updates.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

What are you doing for DSG/Clutches?


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## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Epic! Will be watching with a very keen interest!


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Marty said:


> Very cool! Please keep the updates and pics coming!
> 
> The posts from US folks getting the kit have been surprisingly light (as in, zero posts).
> 
> What's up with the downpipe? Is it required to weld it to adapt it to whatever exhaust you have?


I'm sure APR can pop in and add more info to this build,but as far as I know the downpipe is designed giving the option to run the standard system.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

sentari said:


> What are you doing for DSG/Clutches?


The software will be optimized to suit the standard DSG box.
So testing will be done to see if limits are met,if so the torque delivery can be adapted to suit the DSG clutch limits.

Some Stronic cars have been running 500 lb/ft + without any problems,even with plenty of launch starts,so if a map holds a nice flat 500 lb/ft up to 6250 rpm, or there abouts,the car will still be hitting 600 hp
I personally would like that,as I don't really see that the stronic would need to be pushed past 525-550 lb/ft.It will be fast enough,and reliability is very important, if the kit is going to sell well.
Maybe later there could be a stage 4 option, that would need engine and DSG rebuilds for those that really want to push the car on drag strips etc.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

VWR engine mount to help control that extra power.



getting ready for the ultimate intercooler.





Horn relocation


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

looks like it should be able to cool down intakes nicely


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Thanks for posting pics of the progress, should be a very impressive build!

Any chance you can snag some pics of the brackets that hold the DSG trans cooler in place?


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

The car is already back together,but I will see if I have older pictures on another PC later.
I think there are two bolts at the top and one on the lower left

just a quick close up.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

So, you will run this kit with stock engine internals. ???
What will the estimate power be. ???


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

yes stock internals.
The kit is marketed at 600 hp,but we will see what power the car will actually run at.
Obviously power will have to be kept at safe levels,which will have been determined by APR


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

jaybyme said:


> The car is already back together,but I will see if I have older pictures on another PC later.
> I think there are two bolts at the top and one on the lower left


Thanks that helps. I'm still thinking about installing an external oil cooler at that location since the manual cars don't have the trans cooler. It'd be nice if I can use the OEM brackets for it.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

All information on the kit was just released. Final DSG testing to follow. 


http://www.goapr.com/products/stage3_25tfsi.html


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## unclubbedvdub (Jul 19, 2002)

opcorn:


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

Each S-tronic is a bit different... I wonder what tha factory limit was set to. For instance, my MKII TT was set by Audi to max out at far below my power levels.. Thus a software upgrade is required... And as far as power is concerned... It's just as much about how fast it comes on as the peak... That's why I opted for a new clutch pack... But 'seeing how it goes' is a very good option...



jaybyme said:


> The software will be optimized to suit the standard DSG box.
> So testing will be done to see if limits are met,if so the torque delivery can be adapted to suit the DSG clutch limits.
> 
> Some Stronic cars have been running 500 lb/ft + without any problems,even with plenty of launch starts,so if a map holds a nice flat 500 lb/ft up to 6250 rpm, or there abouts,the car will still be hitting 600 hp
> ...


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Looking at the stage 3 charts posted,I'm quite confident the Stronic will handle the torque.
Torque comes in later and softer than with the stage 2 map that was on the car, and levels are pretty similar.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

i heard stronic is able to put down more torq to the wheels? so that would mean less loss vs manual...


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Any plans to put it around the Nordschleife to see what BTG time it can put down. ???


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I will more than likely take the car around the Nordschleife,but I don't know the track well enough to set any fast times.
I'm much happier going around the Hockenheimring,which is only 30 min away


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## i0n (Oct 29, 2012)

jaybyme said:


> Looking at the stage 3 charts posted,I'm quite confident the Stronic will handle the torque.
> Torque comes in later and softer than with the stage 2 map that was on the car, and levels are pretty similar.


When I plotted the two side-by-side it looked like stage 3 had a slightly steeper slope than stage 2, they are very close though.

BTW, have you guys seen this video: http://youtu.be/2QmF8x5Ew64


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I had the new stage II v2 map on the car only for a few days,but noticed straight away huge torque low down.
On the dyno, my car had 460 lb/ft below 2500 rpm and around 535 lb/ft peak torque at 2700 rpm.
By the looks of it the stage III comes on to boost a 1000 rpm later,but obviously I would only be able to compare properly by going on the same dyno again.
Sadly I don't think I will be able to do when I pick the car up next week,so it will have to wait till a later trip to the UK


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## Cersey (Jan 1, 2013)

Cant wait for more updates and hopefully a video once its done!


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## skippyBKR (Dec 23, 2012)

I will be interested to see if you experience a change in response time from when you pull another gear to the actual gear change. I found once a tune went in, the s-tronic developed a 1 second delay with upshifts when in manual mode.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I haven't experienced any problems with different maps I've used so far
A few companies have updated stronic maps available,and can program the box to suit your engine map.
Not too sure how the car will react to a bigger turbo,slower spool up,turbo lag etc in everyday driving,so I might have to look into that,once I've driven the car for a while.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

skippyBKR said:


> I will be interested to see if you experience a change in response time from when you pull another gear to the actual gear change. I found once a tune went in, the s-tronic developed a 1 second delay with upshifts when in manual mode.


I observed on my dsg (scirocco) that it changes faster if you use the stick instead of the paddles. The reaction time is better, the change itself is no different probably.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

I had done some testing with this too. However, your throttle position and specific driving can affect this greatly. So in the end, I could not show any difference in paddle or stick... for me anyway...



cipsony said:


> I observed on my dsg (scirocco) that it changes faster if you use the stick instead of the paddles. The reaction time is better, the change itself is no different probably.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Quick video of my Stage III Stronic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0TyH9gUvO4

Please remember this is not an out an out attempt at a fast time,this is on the drive home with the car loaded and sadly slightly up hill due to traffic.


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## 311-in-337 (Feb 19, 2003)

Nice vid!


Can you post a pic of the front with the car put back together. I would like to see how stealthy the APR intercooler is behind the grill.

Thanks! :thumbup:


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

311-in-337 said:


> Nice vid!
> 
> 
> Can you post a pic of the front with the car put back together. I would like to see how stealthy the APR intercooler is behind the grill.
> ...


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Just a quick up date.

3750 km covered now with the stage III kit,so over 2300 miles.
Average mpg since day one,so including all testing etc,is running at 11.6 L/100km or I believe that's 20.3 US mpg ?

As expected the car is unbelievable on the Autobahns,acceleration in between traffic from 60 mph to 160 mph + is just crazy and great fun.
On the other side,the car just drives normally in traffic and in town,my girlfriend actually went out in it a few days ago,and said "apart from the sound, I didn't notice any difference" !
That was town driving,so staying below 2500-3000 rpm,this car is really a jekyll and hyde motor 
No idea of what power figures are for the car,but going by a rough 12 sec 100-250 km/h time,they should be pretty healthy.
Not had any clutch slip yet,that's the main worry in the back of my mind,we will just have to wait and see.
There again I'm more worried about prop issues than clutch 
Another prop went on a brand new TTRS + in Germany this week,the car had only 400 miles on the clock !!
Hopefully I can get the finished DPP map on the car soon,then get the car ready for winter.
Should be interesting accelerating with Winter tires on cold icy roads.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

are the props revised now, stronger? the replacements...


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

HGP-Turbo run the same gearbox in a Golf VI 3.6 Bi-Turbo with 925 Nm, so there are upgrades available for it, just in case.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Yeah, I do believe APR have looked at upgrades,but found nothing that meets their requirements.
I think it's a lot easier to manage engine torque to suit the DSG with some software mods at the moment.
To be honest 700 nm + is plenty for everyday use.I don't even know what torque my car has,but it will be a lot from 2600 rpm upwards and it really kicks in at 3400 rpm


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## dubbinitmk6 (Oct 26, 2010)

tdi-bart said:


> are the props revised now, stronger? the replacements...


Was it the shaft itself that has been failing with torsional stress? I found that RS Worx put out a kit upgrade for associated hardware http://store.redlinespeedworx.com/product_p/audi_ttrs_prop_shaft_hardware_.htm


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

yes mostly it's the shafts failing,the bolts sheared on one stage III car


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

No mistaking it's an APR tuned car now,thanks for getting them too me so quickly.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jaybyme said:


> No mistaking it's an APR tuned car now,thanks for getting them too me so quickly.


Whoa! that was quick. Awesome. : )


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Yes thanks for everything Arin,I really like them.
A tasteful touch,which goes very well with the Suzuka Grey.
Slight misunderstanding as I received rear APR badges as well instead of the small GOAPR window stickers.
As I already have the APR badge,I'll give the others to Keith the next time we meet up.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Thought I'd add these cool comments from VW Perfomance magazine UK to my thread



Here's how the engine bay looks at present.



Some nice carbon mirrors got delivered today,decided to get some after all .


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

A "stage 4" 2.5 TFSI engine would be fun in a R8.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Love to see the engine in a Lotus Exige,KTM,Radical etc


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

In that case i choose the "Donkervoort D8 GTO".


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

LOL,too ugly


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I had a look at some data taken on a run to work the other day, and 160-280 kmh took just under 16 secs,which should mean 0-300 kmh would take about 28 secs going by my reckoning.

That sort of time compares well to some pretty hefty supercars,so it's not bad.
I'm expecting new dsg mods soon,then we can up the power with a 102 octane map and more engine mods later.So I'll try to do a proper speed run to 300 kmh later in the year.
I suppose a 200 mph vid would be nice to do as well.

Also fitted a GFB DV+ valve,which seems to work very well indeed.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Is the DV+ valve the T9351? It seems to suggest 2.0T fitment only on their website. Does it fit the 2.5T too, or is yours a new part number?


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

still waiting on that 200mph vid


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Marty said:


> Is the DV+ valve the T9351? It seems to suggest 2.0T fitment only on their website. Does it fit the 2.5T too, or is yours a new part number?


same part as used with the 2.0T Marty

Have a few more mods planned for early this year,once they are done and Summer tyres are back on the car I'll do a 200 mph vid,might be some posted from others before now that APR are in Germany ?.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

jaybyme said:


> same part as used with the 2.0T Marty
> 
> Have a few more mods planned for early this year,once they are done and Summer tyres are back on the car I'll do a 200 mph vid,might be some posted from others before now that APR are in Germany ?.


Thanks. Why did you install the DV+ valve?


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Basically because it's a better design,can't leak and gives better response.
The car does feel better,and I'm very happy with the way it holds boost,and as they are very cheap for what they are,it was worth trying.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Ready for the Summer with 20" forged rims and Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tires


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

stillllllll waiting on vmax...


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

well tyres are on now so we will see.Just need the right road and conditions,and the balls to keep my right foot planted past 300 km/h


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## [KRAFTIG] (Jan 27, 2014)

jaybyme said:


> well tyres are on now so we will see.Just need the right road and conditions,and the balls to keep my right foot planted past 300 km/h


You need to get this on video! :thumbup:


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Nice car!

Are you still running the DV+ diverter valve? Any issues or CEL's? Looks like an interesting product and a fun, "cheap" mod for those of us who are between the really fun, but really expensive mods.

Thanks


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Yes still running the DV+ valve and very happy with the way the car is performing.
Can't believe it, we've had beautiful weather all week,and now rain and cold temperatures are back again.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

jaybyme said:


> Yes still running the DV+ valve and very happy with the way the car is performing.
> Can't believe it, we've had beautiful weather all week,and now rain and cold temperatures are back again.


Just had hailstones over in the UK but the sun is back out again.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

[KRAFTIG] said:


> You need to get this on video! :thumbup:


This ^^^^


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Have this video to 293 kmh GPS from the other week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ltjEhe4beI


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

come on jay you need to try a bit more, here's me around the time when we met up...


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

LOL
Yep sorry must try harder in the future.I was actually going to take it up to 300 GPS that day,but that car got in the way,so only just slowed down before my target.
On the bright side,the car is still accelerating strongly at 300,it was on the way home from work with two in the car and some luggage and I can do it everyday


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

What speed would thearetical be possible, 324 Km/h. ???


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I've calculated that at the 7300 rpm limiter in 6th the true speed should be 340 kmh,then of course I have 7th.
I think 324 kmh should be easily possible,after that I don't know.
Obviously more engine/head mods and power would help


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## ShockwaveCS (Jun 22, 2006)

hey guys im going 300+ km/h let me whip out my iphone and grab a picture :screwy::screwy::laugh:


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

APR tweaked the map to suit our best pump fuel here in Germany last week,releasing a few more horses.
10.99 sec 60 - 150 mph



7.2 sec 60 - 130 mph



Still completely original weight.
Times will come down once a new DSG map and engine work are done.

No power figures as of yet, as the dyno was being used by the ADAC GT Masters R8





Also this very rare limited R8 GT spyder showed up



I let the owner of the GT and the racing driver with the Audi R8 LMS ultra take mine out for a spin,so both could experience some real power, lol


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

Thanks for posting here. That is a great time 60-130. I love the lack of shift recovery with DSG. 

What fuel was used for hte 60-130 time, I assume pump based on the first line saying APR adjusted the pump file?

Cheers


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

URHank said:


> Thanks for posting here. That is a great time 60-130. I love the lack of shift recovery with DSG.
> 
> What fuel was used for hte 60-130 time, I assume pump based on the first line saying APR adjusted the pump file?
> 
> Cheers


The best pump fuel in Europe is 102 octane,believe that might be 98 in the States


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

hightechrdn said:


> Nice car!
> 
> Are you still running the DV+ diverter valve? Any issues or CEL's? Looks like an interesting product and a fun, "cheap" mod for those of us who are between the really fun, but really expensive mods.
> 
> Thanks


It throws an n249 soft code in mine. This is normal and happens on all platforms due to the valve closing before the ECU expects it too. Some people avoid by installing stock spring but then you lose some advantages. I had a misfire in cyl 3 from the valve holding more boost. I reggaped plugs to .028 and all is well. 

It fits the 2.5 and better than stock but could be better. Worth the money IMO. 

Congrats OP. Nice whip.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Testing this huge Carbon intake system at the moment.
Had some issues with the first attempt,but the guy who made it strengthened some parts and it seems to be holding now.



Looks great and really fills the engine bay.

Car is in at the end of the moth for a full engine and head re-build,so it will be interesting to see what the car is like afterwards.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

jaybyme said:


> Testing this huge Carbon intake system at the moment.
> Had some issues with the first attempt,but the guy who made it strengthened some parts and it seems to be holding now.
> 
> 
> ...


Did you have an issue with your engine requiring a rebuild?


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

A 2.5 ltr engine is not build for 600+ hp, you have to upgrade the internals for that kind of abuse.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

There are plenty of 600bhp TTRS's on bone stock engines out there and bolt ons. It doesn't care for above 7500 on the stock rod bearing clearances in my opinion, but rpm has nothing to do with horse power, nor does horse power have anything to do with how how strong a bottom end needs to be. That word starts with a T and ends with orque.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

As far as I know,no APR stage III cars have had any problems running 600+HP on the stock car, and they tested it well above 650 HP
Mine is running well,it's just I'm planning to keep the car until 2016 now,so decided to get the engine and head work done.
This will mean I'm free to do any further mods,or just drive with 650+hp without worries,plus the engine should be a lot sharper with better low down response.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

jaybyme said:


> As far as I know,no APR stage III cars have had any problems running 600+HP on the stock car, and they tested it well above 650 HP
> Mine is running well,it's just I'm planning to keep the car until 2016 now,so decided to get the engine and head work done.
> This will mean I'm free to do any further mods,or just drive with 650+hp without worries,plus the engine should be a lot sharper with better low down response.


And all that will be done in the UK again. ?


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

What are you (European) DSG folks doing on the clutch/tranny front?


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Yes R5T, will be having the full engine build and head/timing gear modifications done by Race developments in the UK.
They've built quite a few TTRS's now in various states of tune.

Regarding the DSG. Basically it seems the standard setup can handle 700 nm.maybe a little more,with new software and higher hydraulic pressure I'm not sure where the limits are.
I know HGP run uprated clutches on their 925 nm Golf,but whether or not they tried to find the limits of the standard clutch packs,I don't know.
Hopefully once the engine is built, I can get together with APR and do some dyno testing,setting the car up with a nice wide high torque band.
Even though the engine will be able to go over 800 nm,I'll be more than happy with 700 nm from 3500- 6000 rpm.
Should give the car Mclaren 650S performance.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

jaybyme said:


> Yes R5T, will be having the full engine build and head/timing gear modifications done by Race developments in the UK.
> They've built quite a few TTRS's now in various states of tune.


These guys right: http://www.racedevelopments.co.uk

That would be a 700+ Km (± 8 hour) drive for me, the flight back home from Bristol is just 1 hour 10 min.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Yep that's them.

It's more like 1000 km for me, but I can break the journey up by staying with friends, then fly back from Heathrow.
When I pick the car up, I'll fly into Bristol,RD will pick me up from there and then I'll have to do a tour around the UK with the car visiting relatives.
By the time I get back to Germany the new engine will have done 3000 km


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

Ok thanks... I have the upgrade clutches from HPA (likely come right from HGP).... HPA said they don't like to see more than 12bar pressure on the standard clutches.... And that's pretty easy for me to hit.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

sentari said:


> Ok thanks... I have the upgrade clutches from HPA (likely come right from HGP).... HPA said they don't like to see more than 12bar pressure on the standard clutches.... And that's pretty easy for me to hit.


The standard pressure for the DQ500 is 14 bar ,600nm


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## DUTCHswift (Feb 22, 2012)

opcorn:


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

Recall, I have a 08 TT w/DSG. So there may be some difference. It's just that there are far more 08 TT's and MKV R32's out there for comparison. Just most of them don't have 500 lb/ft of TQ like mine.



jaybyme said:


> The standard pressure for the DQ500 is 14 bar ,600nm


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Out with the old in with the new.













So stronger and lighter internals, and load of work on the head to free up more power and allowing power over a wider rev band.

Will be picking the car up from Race Developments UK on Monday,then the following Monday we'll be fitting APR's exhaust system and updating software.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Stock rods look like the same as tsi, no?

what rods and pistons did you go with. Stock bore? Builds are always exciting. I hope ever thing goes well. When I did my tsi it was 2 years of hell. Best of luck.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

The engine builder uses CP pistons,Carrillo rods.
Will have to check on bore,but the CR's are kept standard. 
Racing Developments have built quite a few TTRS engines now and everyone seems very happy,so I'm confident the car will run well.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

All back in and running well.just need to update software once back in Germany



Car is also sitting nicely on MSS springs now.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> All back in and running well.just need to update software once back in Germany
> 
> 
> 
> Car is also sitting nicely on MSS springs now.


Is that the Cip CAI kit? 
How is that running? 

I want one...!
Will bell Cip - he promised to sell me one...what does man have to do to be a customer ehh CIP !!!

Heard nothing but great things about the RD guys - Jim does a fair bit with them chatting to him yesterday...they built his engine for his own car. Good to know your views also...:thumbup:


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

RD are very good William,no BS or sales talk,just down to earth guys that know what they are doing.
They actually praised the quality of the MSS kit,so they must be good,lol.
Would love to see what Tim could do with the TTRS if he decided to go the whole way and design a big turbo kit mated to a Motec ECU and his mapping.What he's done with Jonny's GTR is just amazing.

I'm sure Ciprian can knock you up an intake kit.
The original intake parts were a bit weak,but that problem was solved and mine has been fine ever since.
I personally played around with different elbow connecting hoses on mine until I could get the parts to sit where I wanted them,but it's all good fun and to be expected on one off kits.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Done a little bit of logging with the vbox in the car yesterday and times are looking pretty good.
60-130 mph in 6.77 secs fully fuelled and a big handsome driver.
Looks like limits are being reached on the DSG and traction,so the software might have to be adjusted and possibly a wavetrac front LSD fitted at some point next year.
All in all looking very promising whilst remaining a great road car with low down power and extremely good economy.


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## Pr3muToS (Oct 30, 2013)

great car, intressting to read and follow this read... you got any www for me to look up RD?! btw i also need this intake!!!!!!!!

BR


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

PM sent


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Latest pictures and a couple of videos from my Sunday drive yesterday.








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mabvySoBkCk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RkFfQMDbY0


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