# 2.5L Owners post your feedback please



## [email protected] (Jun 8, 2007)

We have a 2008 170hp Rabbit 2.5L on the dyno here and would like to address the "rev hanging" issue that the car has after the accelerator is released. Though we do have some seat time in the car, it is no where near what the daily drivers have. This makes it a little more difficult to pinpoint the exact issue. If you guys could do your best to describe this issue, perhaps even make a video. This will aid us in doing our best to alleviate it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by [email protected] at 10:38 AM 1-9-2008_


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

when under acceleration and you let off the gas and put it in neutral, the RPM's stay at what they were when you let off the gas and it stays at that RPM for a couple of seconds.


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please ([email protected])*

don't know if this will help you at all but I really notice it im driving spirited. bringing it up red line and try to shift quick the rpm just hang out up there until I engage the next gear. Another thing I don't know if this a dbw issue but sometimes on the highway I feel the car will drives its self if I let off the throttle it still chugs along for a few seconds. Then it car goes oh you let off the gas lets slow down


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## kaptinkangaru (Aug 17, 2006)

ATTN: GIAC
once you've resolved this issue, will you allow customers who already own your chip to get a free flash update? right about now i'm really regretting not waiting for C2.


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## [email protected] (Jun 8, 2007)

*Re: (kaptinkangaru)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kaptinkangaru* »_ATTN: GIAC
once you've resolved this issue, will you allow customers who already own your chip to get a free flash update? right about now i'm really regretting not waiting for C2. 


Updates for our software are always free from us. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Our dealers do have a right to charge for labor if they choose. We cant control what they charge for their time. That said, most do not charge labor for updates.


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## kaptinkangaru (Aug 17, 2006)

fair enough. thanks


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

This issue is really bad in this car IMO. If you guys can take the car out on the road, give it full throttle in first gear and then shift at say, 5500, you'll know what we're talking about. Unless you consciously pull your foot off the gas way earlier than what instinct (and driving a manual for 10 years) tell you, the motor revs up to 6000+ while selecting (shifting quickly) second gear. 
When downshifting also, it won't start engine braking for a good 2 - 3 seconds after rev-matching the downshift. 



_Modified by RedRabidRabbit at 12:52 PM 1-9-2008_


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please ([email protected])*

Its as if the pistons are running on momentum for 2 seconds...
I never had another vehicle do it, but I never drove a German car either. I didn't know if this is normal.


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## [email protected] (Jun 8, 2007)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_Its as if the pistons are running on momentum for 2 seconds...
I never had another vehicle do it, but I never drove a German car either. I didn't know if this is normal.


Neither one of my Audis do it.


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## Projektwo.0 (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please ([email protected])*

the downshifting on these cars is really annoying.. always a couple seconds delay


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## Froster (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (RedRabidRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RedRabidRabbit* »_This issue is really bad in this car IMO. If you guys can take the car out on the road, give it full throttle in first gear and then shift at say, 5500, you'll know what we're talking about. Unless you consciously pull your foot off the gas way earlier than what instinct (and driving a manual for 10 years) tell you, the motor revs up to 6000+ while selecting (shifting quickly) second gear. 
When downshifting also, it won't start engine braking for a good 2 - 3 seconds after rev-matching the downshift. 

Exactly.
The most obvious example in my experience is when you take your foot off the gas in every other VW I've driven (or any other car for that matter) while in 1st gear, the car engine brakes almost immediately. My Rabbit on the other hand continues along as if my foot was still lightly on the gas, and then after a couple seconds suddenly begins to engine brake. In higher gears, this is the case as well, but not quite as obvious. 
When shifting higher in the rev range (say, above 5000 rpm) the revs jump up about 200 rpm just as you let up on the gas and push the clutch pedal. This can be addressed somewhat by letting up on the gas earlier, but it makes shifting more difficult.

Having said all this, I really hope that if GIAC can find a solution to this, that the fix will be discussed with VW because it is a very big annoyance. In fact, its the only thing that I find annoying about my Rabbit.


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## RINGSROC (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (Froster)*

If you guys get this done... I will finally know what chip I want !
C2 looks good, but... ECU removal FTL http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Crubb3d Rymz (Dec 25, 2006)

*Re: (07JettaMK5)*

i will attempt to take a video for you guys today http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: (Crubb3d Rymz)*

I really like what C2 have done. Jeff is really good, but if it wasn't for the ecu removing I would already have his chip and the price is right at 249$.
To you Giac: make a chip with these features and you get my money since i have a dealer not too far from where I live.
-DBW lag removed
-Decel "hang" "lag" removed
-6800 rpm redline
-speed limitor removed
-optimized 87 octane programing( C2 got 8hp and 10 tq)
-lower price

about the rev overhang , I have a 2008 too and when i rev close to redline , when i go to change gear the rev jumps a couple of 100's higher. same as described by other users. I really hate it.
also when i downshift it takes a couple of seconds before the engine brake comes in. I guess thats called decel lag.

If you can do a chip that fix those issues I will buy or else i'm gonna wait for c2 to have a dealer nearby.
thanks


_Modified by vento 95 GL at 11:00 AM 1-10-2008_


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: (vento 95 GL)*

Gee I thiought it was just my car that had this problem...I didnt' notice it during test drives...too busy looking at ergonomics etc. I guess..but it really is poor you don't get the engine braking you expect and sometimes need







! I've driven VW's for decades and never seen this problem! Maybe if enuff of us send emails to VW complaining about this and pointing out the safety implications of no engine braking..in fact engine still wants to propel the car after you let off the gas..their lawyers will get the message..safety is the only thing automakers care about and worry about..so the safety angle is the one that might get action! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Hampster34 (Aug 21, 2007)

*Re: (spitpilot)*

I am chipped and I sometimes notice this. Maybe cause the trucks I drive at work usually have a stronger engine brake then my Rabbit and the other cars I drive off work. I have to engine brake much earlier then I would in a bigger delivery vehicle which is kind of strange. That said I was going down SR14 at 69 (in a 60) when the V1 said 2 bars of Ka from behind. I engine braked lost the 9mph quick enough I didnt have to brake. The guy a few hundred meters back in the passing lane wasnt as lucky


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## Kei78 (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: (vento 95 GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vento 95 GL* »_I really like what C2 have done. Jeff is really good, but if it wasn't for the ecu removing I would already have his chip and the price is right at 249$.
To you Giac: make a chip with these features and you get my money since i have a dealer not too far from where I live.
-DBW lag removed
-Decel "hang" "lag" removed
-6800 rpm redline
-speed limitor removed
-optimized 87 octane programing( C2 got 8hp and 10 tq)
-lower price

about the rev overhang , I have a 2008 too and when i rev close to redline , when i go to change gear the rev jumps a couple of 100's higher. same as described by other users. I really hate it.
also when i downshift it takes a couple of seconds before the engine brake comes in. I guess thats called decel lag.

If you can do a chip that fix those issues I will buy or else i'm gonna wait for c2 to have a dealer nearby.
thanks

_Modified by vento 95 GL at 11:00 AM 1-10-2008_

Agreed, will GIAC be making an 87 ocatane program?


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## suprpenguin04 (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (Kei78)*

the rev hanging is actually in the computer to burn off excess fuel that would otherwise be blown out of the engine unburnt... i.e. when u floor it and then shift it quick. *lower emissions)*

kinda annoying, but it is actually designed to do it. lol...i noticed i can avoid it by just letting off the accelerator 1/2 second earlier than you would normally with any other car that your shifting...
guess i kinda just got used to it, lol










_Modified by suprpenguin04 at 7:59 AM 1-11-2008_


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## dzhopa (Aug 2, 2007)

*Re: (suprpenguin04)*

I notice it in my 08 squirrel too.... didn't bother me too much and I honestly figured it had something to do with the flywheel weight. Glad to know it might be fixable in software.
suprpenguin04's post gave me an idea though:
could using higher octane gas lessen the effect?
my logic is that the fuel would burn more efficiently and not leave anything residual that needs sent out of the exhaust valves.
I guess that could depend on the software... for example do the revs always hang for a set period of time to ensure all fuel is burnt off or is it variable based on the amount of fuel that actually needs burnt.


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (vwluger22)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwluger22* »_Another thing I don't know if this a dbw issue but sometimes on the highway I feel the car will drives its self if I let off the throttle it still chugs along for a few seconds. Then it car goes oh you let off the gas lets slow down









I get that too


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## suprpenguin04 (May 21, 2005)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (spdfrek)*

*reponse to dzhopa's post* 
hmmm im not really sure if its a set time, i mean ive hit the clutch sometimes and watched the damn rpm's spike for over a second, like up 1,000 rpms!

i think it may figure in some sort of time settings for how long to over-rev? I asked the dealer about this before...










_Modified by suprpenguin04 at 8:50 AM 1-11-2008_


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## volare (Jun 25, 2006)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please ([email protected])*

I knew I bought from a great company!
The flash alone is really worth it but if we could get this rev hanging issue addessed as well...wow I'll become the spokesperson for GIAC!
Thanks for your continued support and your dedication to the modding community!
My feeling is that there is some sort of a continued momentum while I am accelerating (could be from the inline design?) and even though my foot is off the gas pedal...it takes 3 or 4 seconds for the revs to drop. Shifting while the revs are high makes the car "lurch" so I have to wait for the revs to drop before downshifting (or upshifting for that matter)


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## RINGSROC (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (suprpenguin04)*

It feels like it is holding longer, the more unspent fuel it sees.
If you rev up to 5k in second, then just mash in the clutch, (like when you see a cop) it can hold for over 7 seconds








But if your cruising in 5th, and just push in the clutch, it only holds a second-ish, or not at all.
my .02c










_Modified by 07JettaMK5 at 12:59 PM 1-11-2008_


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (07JettaMK5)*

You don't have to declutch to get this lack of engine slow down..when you let off after just cruisin along at part throttle you get no engine braking like all my other manual tranny cars have had (including my 00 Passat...so please VW don't tell me you can't make a car without this problem)...rather unerving..you expect to feel the car slow and it doesn't..requires more brake use than I'm used to. When you just wanna back off from traffic that suddenly slows a bit on the freeway..you have to do more than just let off the gas....seems a safety minus to me!


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (spitpilot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spitpilot* »_You don't have to declutch to get this lack of engine slow down..when you let off after just cruisin along at part throttle you get no engine braking like all my other manual tranny cars have had (including my 00 Passat...so please VW don't tell me you can't make a car without this problem)...rather unerving..you expect to feel the car slow and it doesn't..requires more brake use than I'm used to. When you just wanna back off from traffic that suddenly slows a bit on the freeway..you have to do more than just let off the gas....seems a safety minus to me!









exactly.


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## 5_Cent (May 22, 2007)

*Re: (vento 95 GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vento 95 GL* »_I really like what C2 have done. Jeff is really good, but if it wasn't for the ecu removing I would already have his chip and the price is right at 249$.
To you Giac: make a chip with these features and you get my money since i have a dealer not too far from where I live.
-DBW lag removed
-Decel "hang" "lag" removed
-6800 rpm redline
-speed limitor removed
-optimized 87 octane programing( C2 got 8hp and 10 tq)
-lower price


Yes, that is quite nice.
But I am seeing people say they are getting a hang anywhere from 2 seconds to 7 seconds?








Maybe this has been toned done on the 08's? Cuz when I push in the clutch or shift gears I am not getting a rev hang for any but a split second, unless I am really retarded. 
I do have a 08'
Are you saying the RPM's just dont drop AS fast or it literally stays at say 3k for 2-7 seconds then starts to fall? cuz that is the gh3y if it is.


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## AHTOXA (Dec 2, 2007)

*Re: (5_Cent)*

I'm getting annoyed with this rev hang issue as well. It's pretty annoying when you're driving with some spirit. That makes me have to dragthe clutch to slow the engine down or shift roughly. I don't like it. 
Subscribed to thread. Hoping you guys fix this. I will be buying your chip if you do.


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## Rabbot (Aug 21, 2007)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please ([email protected])*

GIAC - mind posting the dyno sheet you made there?


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## [email protected] (Jun 8, 2007)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (Rabbot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rabbot* »_GIAC - mind posting the dyno sheet you made there?

I will make a new post with the information for the 2008 software when we release it. If you are referring to the 2005.5-2007 measured gains, they can be seen here:


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (5_Cent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5_Cent* »_
Are you saying the RPM's just dont drop AS fast or it literally stays at say 3k for 2-7 seconds then starts to fall? cuz that is the gh3y if it is.

nope, it will actually stay at 3k for 2-7sec when you push the clutch in
actually it will hold for 2secs and drop, but the times when it holds for longer it will hold at like 4k for 2sec then drop to 3k for another 2sec then drop off like it should. atleast thats what it does on my car


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

The rev hang makes getting a short shift link a waste. I'm in the next gear and waiting for the revs to drop.


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## chilipad (Jan 6, 2007)

When you downshift going into a corner the car speeds up instead of slowing down like it should. Scared the hell out of me the first time it happened.This is what needs to be fixed. I don't know how anyone can auto-x with this car.


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## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (chilipad)*

Best way to get it to rear its ugly head, drive aggressively (3/4-full throttle) through 1st and 2nd gear (wind it out to about 5k) then put the clutch and keep it in in like you need to slow and turn. 
Has happened to me maybe 4-5 times where I need to drive aggressively for a few seconds then slow to make a turn. It will take a good 5 seconds for the revs to drop below 2k RPM. Does not bother me but scared me half to death the first time it happened seeing my car at 4k RPM a good 2-3 seconds after I pushed the clutch in. 
All for the sake of squeaky clean tailpipe emissions.


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## Brianjk (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: (chilipad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chilipad* »_When you downshift going into a corner the car speeds up instead of slowing down like it should. Scared the hell out of me the first time it happened.This is what needs to be fixed. I don't know how anyone can auto-x with this car.

X2
I did autoX once in my 08 while my 84 gets reworked, and it was really frustrating. The reason i only drive manual tranny cars is for the increased control, not only for engine braking, but for weight balance. It absolutely kills me when the the nose of my car drops an inch unexpectedly, throwing off my weight balance completely at the limit, becoming potentially dangerous. Keeping weight on/off the front wheels at the right moments is essential when racing a fwd car...
I really hope GIAC takes care of this problem as it will be the main selling point in a chip for me. I've only purchased software from GIAC before, never from another company, and look forward to doing so again as their experience, background, and reputation are hard to beat http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BTW, do you guys still need a video of this?


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

i noticed at idle that the normal fuel flow is .25-.26 gal per hour and then when the clutch in it shoots up to .35-.38 gal per hour on the flow rate

i also notice when doing down step step grades over a good distance that with the cruse off and in gear coasting the car serges 3 to 5 times a min
if i blip the throttle from idle it will hold the peak rpm for a sec and then slowly go down

thats the only other thing i have noticed on mine


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## kaptinkangaru (Aug 17, 2006)

Hey GIAC. anything new to report on this? problem solved? ETA at dealerships?


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## The Councilman (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (kaptinkangaru)*

weird thing is my car isn't even chipped and its doing this. I was thinking it was a stuck gas pedal problem -- where the sensor is malfunctioning but I guess this is a common problem? It only seems to have problems revving down after I've immediately been on the gas.. otherwise it will rev down fine.
Interesting.
I'm planning to get chipped and debating between both. I'll be watching this thread.


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## oldschool86045 (Mar 22, 2005)

hey, did you get the gains of the '08 rabbit 170hp?? would the gains look like those comparable to the 07 rabbits with 150 hp?


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## oldschool86045 (Mar 22, 2005)

any updates on 08 170hp rabbits yet?


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## Stutz (Dec 4, 2007)

*Re: (oldschool86045)*

2008 owners can find more information here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3660622


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (Stutz)*

did you guys ever figure out the rev hang issue?
can you find a way to cure these stupid cels from intakes?


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## Toiletcar (Aug 3, 2007)

*Re: (spdfrek)*

same any info yet? i hate the rev hang







GIAC makes good products


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## jescarabt (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (Projektwo.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Projektwo.0* »_the downshifting on these cars is really annoying.. always a couple seconds delay

i'm an 07 owner but i I agree with this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: 2.5L Owners post your feedback please (jescarabt)*


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