# California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE



## [email protected] (Apr 23, 2001)

Volkswagen vans are as much a part of the coastal California landscape as surfboards and seagulls. From San Francisco to San Diego, it’s almost impossible to drive a mile on the coast highway without passing a microbus, a Vanagon or a Eurovan. With a family trip to the central coast already planned, it seemed fitting that we should spend the week in VW’s latest people-box, the 2009 Routan minivan, to see if it possesses any of its predecessors’ mojo...*FULL STORY*


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## haunted reality (Apr 18, 2001)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE ([email protected])*

Nice write-up, still doesn't convince me to think about the Crouton. Sorry, if VW brought the Touran it would be game on and my 5 would have a challenge. Otherwise, I'll keep driving my 5.


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## PiSSAT4motion (Sep 28, 2006)

..yeah a nice write up but I wouldnt say is was meant to convince anyone to think about the Routan. Seemed more like trying to not say anything too bad about it instead...lol.
VW really missed the mark with the Routan..borrowing a minivan from a failing company. I feel sorry for the uninformed folks that only realize after buying the Routan that theyve only bought a rebadged dodge and not an actual VW...


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## MeineFolks'wagen (May 8, 2002)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE ([email protected])*

"Here’s the back-story: VW is potentially developing its own minivan, one that’s more affordable and family-friendly than the tall, boxy and expensive T5 Transporter that it sells in Europe. Until that product arrives (assuming it ever does), it needs to lay some groundwork to get 21st-century families thinking about VW vans in a 21st-century context."
Um, like this one? 
http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms....html
VW already has a minivan, why not bring it over? It's the same old comlaint about VW not bringing over its other offerings that are available in Europe........


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## AudiVwMeister (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (MeineFolks'wagen)*

i wonder if people are more inclined to buy the VW version these days knowing the company isn't in danger of going away?


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## Preppy (May 3, 2001)

This may be a little nit-picky, but I'm not entirely sure if you know what the word 'teutonic' means.

*of or pertaining to the ancient Teutons or their languages; "Teutonic peoples such as Germans and Scandinavians and British"; "Germanic mythology" 
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn*


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## jackestes (Feb 7, 2008)

I've had a Eurovan and now have the Chrysler version of the Routan. For me the deciding factor was the seats that fold flat into the floor that the Routan doesn't offer. I love the quirkiness of the microbus/vanogan/eurovans but their reliability has always been their downfall. Perhaps VW fans will have the best of both worlds here, a reliabile (read not made by VW) Volkswagen van. Having said all that, I would LOVE to have the opportunity to buy an updated version of the microbus. Look at what an instant sensation the New Beetle was and still is. VW should do that with a US market New Microbus.


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## IDdubber (Oct 18, 2006)

*Re: (jackestes)*

so $30k for an optionless Chrysler w/a VW badge on it?
No thanks.
I'd rather have a $27k (nearly) loaded GTI w/rebates galore ($22k out the door) that'll still haul us, our daughter, 3 dogs (albeit, of the yorkie and pom variety), and luggage for a 3 day trip, comfortably. Hence me buying just that.
Until VW comes to their senses and releases the Mini-bus concept or anything remotely as appealing truck/van/SUV-wise I'm keeping my butt in a GTI. 
Best all-around car for the money *PERIOD*


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## Sharpix (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (jackestes)*

Make the fffffffffffffffu King microbus. Make it quirky and unique, one that could be configured like a the family hauler and other with simple rubber mats for the camping, sports, cycling, stuff hauler or weekend warrior.
My family had TWO T2, one aircooled, one watercooled and I traveled very very often in four different Microbuses at the time. I could haul a 12' jonboat or put the rear bench to haul friends, or hauling bicycles, tools and such. 
I will instantly purchase one that could acomodate 5 persons with the option to haul stuff in the rest of the van. One that I could attach rear seatbelts, and that the rear seat could be removed so i can go camping anywhere with gear.
The problem would be trying to make it so minivan, that nobody would take a look at it. Just like the routan.


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## mister_g60 (Feb 25, 2002)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (haunted reality)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haunted reality* »_Nice write-up, still doesn't convince me to think about the Crouton. Sorry, if VW brought the Touran it would be game on and my 5 would have a challenge. Otherwise, I'll keep driving my 5.

Gaa, $30k!
Mmm, Mazda5. With a baby on the way, I'm half tempted to pick one of those up, but our '08 Versa is such a great car that I can't bring myself to get rid of it. I do dig those 5's though. Seriously, unless you need a lot more room, why would you buy anything else?


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## MCTB (Dec 30, 2005)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (MeineFolks'wagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeineFolks’wagen* »_"Here’s the back-story: VW is potentially developing its own minivan, one that’s more affordable and family-friendly than the tall, boxy and expensive T5 Transporter that it sells in Europe. Until that product arrives (assuming it ever does), it needs to lay some groundwork to get 21st-century families thinking about VW vans in a 21st-century context."
Um, like this one? 
http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms....html
VW already has a minivan, why not bring it over? It's the same old comlaint about VW not bringing over its other offerings that are available in Europe........

eegads that thing, the sharan, is ugly. no one is going to buy that. it looks like a cross between the voyagers/ minivans of the late nineties and the toyota previa egg mobile. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## IDdubber (Oct 18, 2006)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (mister_g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mister_g60* »_
Gaa, $30k!
Mmm, Mazda5. With a baby on the way, I'm half tempted to pick one of those up, but our '08 Versa is such a great car that I can't bring myself to get rid of it. I do dig those 5's though. Seriously, unless you need a lot more room, why would you buy anything else?


I didn't see the Mazda5 reference earlier in the thread. But I caught you bringing it up and the funny thing is that I test drove a Mazda5 while looking at the MS3 (no way that was going to work...back seats SUCKED). It is the ONLY "van-like" thing out there that I would even consider. My g/f said no-go as she despises vans. Back to the VW dealership (and thus to another GTI) we went. 
Having a child, you wouldn't believe the amount of room one of these cars provides. Oddly enough, the 2 door is more manageable than the 4








But yeh - Mazda5's are REALLY nice. Even now I point 'em out to my g/f.


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## Passat94VR6 (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (IDdubber)*

At the end of the article you mention a Vanagon Synchro Camper . . . it's SYNCRO not "synchro." No "H."


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## Buran (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE ([email protected])*

No thanks. I want to have kids, but I don't want them to be riding in a wannabe VW. If I were to buy a minivan right now, it'd be a Honda Odyssey. I have a number of reasons to not want a Chrysler, and slapping someone else's badges on it isn't going to make it anything else but what it really is. Bring a true VW minivan, and I'd be there. More realistically, I'm sticking with my five-door, and if it needs replacement, something like a Jetta Sportwagen, another five-door GTI, an Audi A3, or a Tiguan (bring us a DSG-powered TDI version, please!) would be my first pick.


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I was totally bent on ignoring this car, but my sister-in-law drug me out looking for vehicles to replace here (craptastic) Ford Freestyle. 
She was determined not to get an SUV, but after looking at all the standard fare we went to check out the Routan. She's had it for 3 months now, loves it and I'm pretty impressed with it too... It's no T5, but does the job for now.


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## [email protected] (Apr 23, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (OEMpl.us)*

We have friends who currently own a Suburban and an XC70. They have two kids, three dogs and a camper (thus the Suburban). They've both owned VWs in the past - him a Passat and a Jetta, she a Cabriolet - though they aren't what I'd consider "enthusiasts." They've resisted buying a minivan at all cost, but they felt oddly attracted to the idea of a VW minivan. I think there really is a certain cachet that comes with owning a dub, at least for some people.
In the end, they weren't really convinced either. They still have their XC70 and 'burban.








Oh, and the "h" is gone from syncro. Thank spell-checker for that.


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## Dvwtag85 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE ([email protected])*

I guess my question to those people who keep bashing this idea of the new minivan: Have you ever actually driven one????








I have... they are actually really nice. I think VW tuned that suspension perfectly! Its super comfortable! 
Yeah ok..its a chrysler engine and tranny, but just because chrysler is in this financial crisis, doesnt mean they cant build an engine... The fact that they are in such bad shape is mainly business purposes, not the engineering aspect of it. 
Just some food for thought... my mother owns a 2000 chrysler LHS, (3.5 V6), it has 140K on it and she has NEVER had any engine or tranny issues with it and it still runs good. 
but...i do agree that 30k is alot of money for it....
but thats just my input on it...


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## kURTA (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (Dvwtag85)*

I keep trying to forget this vehicle exists. I am sure there are Chrysler vehicles that run forever and I realize there are actually some people who like the brand. VW putting a badge on a Chrysler does not sit well with me. Somehow, and it may be stupid to some, I kind of feel betrayed. I know VW owes me nothing, it is how I feel though. I'll get over it.


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE ([email protected])*

I think most of the people here with negative comments are neither in the market for a minivan and have probably never even take the time to look at a Routan.
I used to own a 2000 VW Eurovan MV. There's always been something special about Volkswagen vans. 
First, Chrysler has always been a market leader in the minivan segment with the Town & Country and the Dodge Grand Caravan. That powertrain is known for long term reliability with many vehicles going 200,000+ mile with very few issues. The Routan may very well be the most reliable Volkswagen right now. Drive a Routan and you can definitely feel the upgrades to the steering and handling. Much more taut than the Chrysler products. The biggest difference is the interior. The materials in all trim levels are definitely an upgrade over it's Chrysler cousins and the 2 mid row captains chair seats are more comfortable than the flimsy stow and go seats.
It's really a pretty good vehicle overall. If for some reason I needed to replace my 04 Passat, I would definitely consider it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MKIII-JP (Dec 3, 2003)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (papa_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papa_vw* »_ That powertrain is known for long term reliability with many vehicles going 200,000+ mile with very few issues. 

that powertrain you speak of is of the piushrod era #1
and #2, those transmissions are GARBAGE


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (MKIII-JP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKIII-JP* »_
that powertrain you speak of is of the piushrod era #1
and #2, those transmissions are GARBAGE


I appreciate your being a VW enthusiast as I am, but to put down another manufacturer without the facts isn't warranted. 
Here's the most recent JD Powers reliability study. Dodge Grand Caravan received the top minivan rankings. Not a bad vehicle for Volkswagen to base it's new minivan on.
http://articles.moneycentral.m....aspx
Speaking of garbage transmissions, have you read the Transporter forum here on the Vortex lately? One of the biggest issues for Eurovan owners has been the transmisson.



_Modified by papa_vw at 10:00 PM 4-24-2009_


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (papa_vw)*

Here's a new upgrade from DriversGear that I saw posted in the Routan forum....
"TOUAREG / ROUTAN TENT 
Item #19950 
The unique design of this tent provides the most versatility and flexibility when camping. The Sportz SUV/Mini Van tent has a patented removable sleeve that wraps around the cargo area of your Touareg or Routan, allowing for easy access to storage or as additional sleeping area. Features: 10' x 10' tent, sleeps 6 people, can be used as stand alone tent, Roomy interior with 7' of headroom, equipped with a 6' x 6' rain fly awning, 2 large entrance doors, 3 large no-see-um mesh windows, 2 mesh skylights, lantern holder and gear loft hangs from ceiling. Includes carrying case. Made from 185D, 75D polyester taffeta with 1200mm of PU water-resistant coating. 
This item will ship direct from the mfg. Allow 2 weeks for delivery. MSRP $289.95"


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## JETwagen (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (MeineFolks'wagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeineFolks’wagen* »_
Um, like this one? 
http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms....html
VW already has a minivan, why not bring it over? It's the same old comlaint about VW not bringing over its other offerings that are available in Europe........

Um, I personally would have the rebadged Dodge we got then the rebadged Ford you suggest, thank you very much.










_Modified by JETwagen at 1:50 PM 4-25-2009_


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (JETwagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETwagen* »_
Um, I personally would have the rebadged Dodge we got then the rebadged Ford you suggest, thank you very much.


The Routan is a far better vehicle than the Sharan. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by papa_vw at 4:40 PM 4-25-2009_


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## driver bob (Nov 27, 2007)

Much as I love VW at the end of the day the Routan is just too expensive to consider as a viable option.
We too were the people who swore blind we'd never own a van.
Now with 2 kids, bikes, trailers and a dog it's getting tough/impossible hauling stuff around with a 4 door sedan.
In Canada a no options "Comfortline" is $34K. An optioned 25th Aniversary (sp) Dodge Minivan is $14K.
For a vehicle which neither of us really want but have (!!) to consider, which will be beaten and abused, have stuff tossed into and out of, and which doesn't offer "Stow and Go" we cannot justify the extra $20K.
Sorry VW, you completely missed the mark with the Routan.
It's too expensive for what it is.


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## jetta9103 (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (JETwagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETwagen* »_
Um, I personally would have the rebadged Dodge we got then the rebadged Ford you suggest, thank you very much.

for the record, VW & Ford developed the mk1 Sharan together - it was a joint venture. That was the first reason for not importing the Sharan to the US - it was Ford's home territory and was part of the agreement between the 2 companies.
Yes, there are Ford's w/ a VR6 under the hood out there.








The reason now? (now, that Ford no longer shares this platform) Who knows.


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: (driver bob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *driver bob* »_In Canada a no options "Comfortline" is $34K. An optioned 25th Aniversary (sp) Dodge Minivan is $14K.


I'm not sure what you're comparing. A new Routan at $34,000 Canadian versus a used Dodge Grand Caravan at $14,000 Canadian? There isn't that kind of a price difference between the Routan and a comparably equipped Dodge Grand Caravan.


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## driver bob (Nov 27, 2007)

There is a huge price differential between the two vehicles, and the VW does not offer Stow n' Go.
The Caravan is a brand new 09 model, not used.
We were at the dealer and I was $25K off the dealership lot, on the road for the Caravan. (But then my wife got laid off and we had to pull out of the deal).
VW can't come close to that price. A minivan on any platform is, to my mind, designed to haul around the family and all the associated crap that goes with it.
It's not a vehicle we want to drive but it's a vehicle we will eventually have to drive. 



_Modified by driver bob at 7:02 AM 4-27-2009_


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## ftillier (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: (driver bob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *driver bob* »_Now with 2 kids, bikes, trailers and a dog it's getting tough/impossible hauling stuff around with a 4 door sedan.


3 kids and a B5 wagon, and it works very well. It's a bit tight sometimes, but the roof top carrier solves any hauling issues for those occasional trips. We can go camping without the roof box for a weekend without a problem. Would be nice to be able to bring home friends from school, and that's what's had us consider 7 passenger vehicles, but we haven't found anything worthwhile.
I got a ride in a Routan when I had the passat in for an oil change, I was not impressed. Some of the door moldings were lifting (the ones around the sliding doors), and there were a lot of gaps between the floor storage cover pieces that made it look cheap (sat in the rear). Sitting in the front was much nicer, though.
Holding out for a diesel or a hybrid minivan, though. A plug-in hybrid with an all-electric range of 20 miles would cover the majority of our trips. A hybrid is the only kind of car I wouldn't mind not having a manual transmission in.
-Fab


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## urfdaddy (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE ([email protected])*

I think the article was well written and explains the tedium of a Mini Van. Being a VW nut there are a few points I felt that were missed:
-	Carefree Maintenance: how but not paying for service?
-	How about standard Electronic Traction Control on every model?
-	Having the opportunity to participate in a ride and drive, I have driven the Routan, Odyssey, Town and County, and Sienna side by side there are a few standouts:
o	Lack of body roll. We did a 0-60 and then an abrupt lane change and boy did the competitors feel like they were going to tip over
o	Responsive steering (All be it of a van). Most Mini Vans are designed with a numb steering wheel intentionally designed for the driver to turn around and yell at the kids without the van veering off the road! My reaction was I want the responsiveness so I can avoid road hazards.
o	Overall superior interior quality stands outs in the Routan. Sound dampening materials in the doors, quality and thickness of the Leather and carpets. Durability of the plastics…etc
Your right it is not a Campervan or Touran but in a very crowded market place there is now a VW option that can deliver a more enjoyable driving experience and great quality that others can’t. 
Do your self a favor and drive one for kicks and giggles!


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (IDdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IDdubber* »_so $30k for an optionless Chrysler w/a VW badge on it?

X2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Our business has a Grand Caravan to haul boxes in. Stow 'n Go... Whatever.
What a POS! lol


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## too_many_vws (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re:*

People are staying away in droves. 
_Automotive News_ via _Autoblog_: "Of the 22,037 Routans produced between its introduction in September and the cessation of production just a few months later, only 5,582 (less than a quarter of those made) have actually been sold."
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/0...t-lo/


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## child_in_time (Aug 9, 2006)

One of the worst business moves VW has made ever.


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## ssgilp (May 1, 2009)

*Re: (child_in_time)*

Along with the Phaeton. 
I have an '02 Euroclam GLS with 150,000. The transmission blew up on me and I considered dumping it for a Routan. No contest; I fixed the transmission. 

_Why should we be in such desperate haste to succeed, and in such desperate enterprises? If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Walden_


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## Buran (Apr 21, 2000)

*Re: Re: (too_many_vws)*


_Quote, originally posted by *too_many_vws* »_Of the 22,037 Routans produced between its introduction in September and the cessation of production just a few months later, only 5,582 (less than a quarter of those made) have actually been sold.

What did they expect to happen? Missing features/options combined with higher price just to change the badge doesn't sell vehicles. Add the stow and go and make the price competitive with the other versions of the same vehicle and you might get more buyers. Oh, and put a real VW engine in it.


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: Re: (Buran)*

Before you go off bad mouthing the Routan, it had a pretty respectable month in April with 2,606 sold. It's Volkswagens best seller here in the US behind the Jetta now.








The numbers don't lie.
http://media.vw.com/article_di...10493


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## foofighter28 (Aug 4, 2000)

last i read on autoblog they had a inventory of over 20k units sitting. they told chrysler to stop building them because they weren't moving. Now they're really pushing it via marketing to help move em. 
We owned 2 Odysseys now and when we looked at the interior of the Routan i felt it lacking in some areas. Such as the plastics used for some of the interior bits and the captain's chair arm...the plastic felt hard and didnt have that usual VW "give" to it. The front cockpit is nice and had that VW family look and feel.
Maybe this minivan is a stop-gap to tie things over till the microbus comes? Who knows for now the Odyssey works just fine for us


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## gti1647 (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE ([email protected])*

Nice write up on the van. It was well put together. But I noticed that at the end of the artical you said, and i quote:
"But it certainly isn’t blessed with the same kind of charming peculiarities that have made past VW vans such cult icons. ¬Where are the fold-up tables, the swiveling captain’s seats, the makeshift sofa-sleeper? I’d trade a pair of power sliding doors for a truly functional cabin."
Like everyone else is saying. the Routan is just a Chrysler mom mobile. The van you wanted is not made in North America (yet), but it's available in Europe, known as the "California" (look it up on the VW UK site). It has all the features you want, tables, bed, pop up roof, swivel chairs. All in a modern day look. 
Here's a link to the UK site: http://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/california/



_Modified by gti1647 at 11:26 AM 5-2-2009_


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## too_many_vws (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: Re: (papa_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papa_vw* »_
The numbers don't lie.
http://media.vw.com/article_di...10493

The most surprising thing about those numbers is that they still managed to sell almost 1500 New Beetles. Seriously, who in the hell is still buying these things? Did 'Geek Patrol' make a fleet purchase or something?


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: Re: (too_many_vws)*


_Quote, originally posted by *too_many_vws* »_
The most surprising thing about those numbers is that they still managed to sell almost 1500 New Beetles. Seriously, who in the hell is still buying these things? Did 'Geek Patrol' make a fleet purchase or something?

The Beetle is the iconic image of Volkswagen. They fact that this model has been out since 1998 and has continued to be one of their strongest products says a lot for it.
I loved the New Beetle when it first came out and had a 1999 model. Admittedly the novelty has long worn off but there is still something special about it.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: (papa_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papa_vw* »_
The Beetle is the iconic image of Volkswagen. They fact that this model has been out since 1998 and has continued to be one of their strongest products says a lot for it.


Absolutely correct. The Beetle, old or new, IS Volkswagen! My daughter wants a NB, as do many of her friends. It's the best of both worlds. You have a modern version of the world's most loved car, with HEAT, and quite frankly, far more reliability and comfort than the old air-cooled models. I know Consumer Reports doesn't think much of the New Beetle, but compared to the original aircooleds, the NB is like owning a Lexus. My club president has had one since new (a 2000 model) and has had zero problems in over 100k miles. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Although my trophy count would likely drop, I will buy a NB myself if
my 1969 Beetle craps out on me one more time.........


_Modified by fortysomething at 8:54 PM 5-3-2009_


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## Green Hare (Oct 21, 2003)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (JETwagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETwagen* »_
Um, I personally would have the rebadged Dodge we got then the rebadged Ford you suggest, thank you very much.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Ford_Galaxy_-_first_generation.jpg/800px-Ford_Galaxy_-_first_generation.jpg[img]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

All the mentions of the Sharan, but IIRC, when this was first launched, part of the agreement between VW and Ford was VW would not import it to the US. Not sure how factual that is, or if so, how long that agreement was for.
Personally I think VW would fit the niche nicely with the Touran. What else is out there of the same size besides the Mazda 5?


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Good luck to everybody trying to vag-com this so called VW...
I want this:


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## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*

i think i have found my people!!









DOWN WITH THE ******!!! its so bad. i won't even speak its name!







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (IDdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IDdubber* »_so $30k for an optionless Chrysler w/a VW badge on it?
No thanks.
I'd rather have a GTI that'll still haul us, our daughter, 3 dogs (albeit, of the yorkie and pom variety), and luggage for a 3 day trip, *comfortably.*

that trip would get VERY old very fast in a GTI, especially a 2door.
I dont think the typical Minivan owner has just ONE kid, usually the minivan comes into play when you have 2-3-4 Kids. Sporting Equipment, Kids Teammates, and other things that go along with having more than a single child.
IMHO The caravan is a More than capable Mechanical Platform. Your not going to be doing canyon runs at midnight in any MV. VW or else wise.
big whoop if Chrysler donated the 'Oily Bits'. They have 25 years experience in this department...


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## Buran (Apr 21, 2000)

Really? I made a 10-hour-STRAIGHT trip in my GTI and didn't feel tired at all. I don't need a huge vehicle so big that it needs a tiller instead of a steering wheel, and I get far-better mileage too.


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Yeah... I could have picked one of these up for about 22k earlier this week if I had really wanted to... thank god I went with the JSW. Not that I have anything against owning a van, but seriously, it's just not a VW, it's a total fail in my book.
I really hope VW learned its lesson and never tries to share a platform with someone else. No matter the suspension changes, or interior refinements (which are actually pretty nice), you can still smell the residue of crap coming out from under the dash. 
Sorry. But boo. 


_Modified by Kid Hobo at 7:10 PM 5-7-2009_


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## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Kid Hobo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kid Hobo* »_Yeah... I could have picked one of these up for about 22k earlier this week if I had really wanted to... thank god I went with the JSW. Not that I have anything against owning a van, but seriously, it's just not a VW, it's a total fail in my book.
I really hope VW learned its lesson and never tries to share a platform with someone else. No matter the suspension changes, or interior refinements (which are actually pretty nice), you can still smell the residue of crap coming out from under the dash. 
Sorry. But boo. 

_Modified by Kid Hobo at 7:10 PM 5-7-2009_


ahhhh..... pics in the chi thread please!


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (Buran)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Buran* »_Really? I made a 10-hour-STRAIGHT trip in my GTI and didn't feel tired at all. I don't need a huge vehicle so big that it needs a tiller instead of a steering wheel, and I get far-better mileage too.

a 10-hour Trip, with the Kid, Wife and the dogs and Luggage?



_Modified by redzone98 at 7:11 PM 5-8-2009_


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## 2lowcoupedoor (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Buran)*








VW has officially hit an all time low with this Chrysler


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## MKIII-JP (Dec 3, 2003)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (papa_vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papa_vw* »_ but to put down another manufacturer without the facts isn't warranted. 
Speaking of garbage transmissions, have you read the Transporter forum here on the Vortex lately? One of the biggest issues for Eurovan owners has been the transmisson.


I am NO VAN guy 
but I am a vw dealer tech for over 12 years now 
and this is NO VW!!!!
Yea I have replaced eurovan + boxer gearboxes sure 
but they are usually the ones with a trailer hitch under the rear 
As for the "FACTS"
I trust some paper pushers opinion for nothing (some guy that caculates survey materials is NOT my ressource sorry!) I have come to my own conclusions from my HANDS ON EXPERIENCE 
My hands on experience tells me that the wiring harness is an engineering marvel!
semifunctional GARBAGE! 
Look at the wiring on a MK5 VS this van THEN TELL ME ITS 30K price is justifiable.......
NO ONE CAN!! this is one small, easy example where this van is lacking VW engineering.
AND like a bunch of others have said.
wheres the real VW-VAN interior/amnemities????
no pop top-sleeper-caming provisions- fold out sun shade? Hot water.......
these were the things that made it the VAN icon VW is still trying to rely on for its sales
@ the vag-com post!!!


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## argh32 (Apr 8, 2004)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE ([email protected])*

Keep that POS Chrysler minivan and bring us the Rocco.


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## FowVay (Aug 25, 2000)

*VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE*

Let us not forget that the number one reason to purchase this fine German engineered baby transporter is because it is sold and serviced through the best dealer network on the continent.
That's sarcasm,,, and likely a handicap to the sales of this otherwise incredibly nice vehicle. I agree that it's a rebadged Chrysler product but what hurts the Routan the most is having to deal with the people at VW. I guess Volkswagen's customer "CARE" hotline has a few extra "I'm sorry" phrases they can hand out while doing nothing to appease the unpleased. Status quo,,way to go!


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## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: California Dreaming- VWvortex Road Test 2009 Routan SE (argh32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *argh32* »_Keep that POS Chrysler minivan and bring us the Rocco.















AND your a local. Keno boy here.
















whats next a mini SUV... oh wait we got one of those too..


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## IDdubber (Oct 18, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *redzone98* »_
that trip would get VERY old very fast in a GTI, especially a 2door.


We have driven from ID to VA (not to mention my g/f was 8 months prego), VA to NY (multiple times) and countless other 500+ mile trips filled to the gills like I mentioned....not a complaint from anyone. It is all in how you pack and not being a cry baby that needs 100 sq. ft. just to themselves for your ipod/dvd sceen/psp/xm/etc etc etc devices.









_Quote, originally posted by *too_many_vws* »_
The most surprising thing about those numbers is that they still managed to sell almost 1500 New Beetles. Seriously, who in the hell is still buying these things? Did 'Geek Patrol' make a fleet purchase or something?


I actually really LIKE the newer beetle styling, the harder lines are a tasteful update...I just wish they still offered a "sport" trim level of some sort. Seems like every single one I see is an automatic 2.5 and they don't even offer an engine other than the 2.5 regardless if you want to do the shifting or not.


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## 16v4me (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (IDdubber)*

...disapointing


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (16v4me)*

How Many of you People that are Bashing the Routan actually HAVE a family ...
Oh and ONE kid does'nt count.
you Guys are Throwing Hate because you dont NEED a large Vehicle.
Seems to me that the Routan Bashing is from Unmarried Men < 40 years old


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (redzone98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redzone98* »_How Many of you People that are Bashing the Routan actually HAVE a family ...
Oh and ONE kid does'nt count.
you Guys are Throwing Hate because you dont NEED a large Vehicle.
Seems to me that the Routan Bashing is from Unmarried Men < 40 years old

I agree. I would rather see the Routan in Volkswagen showrooms than having no van choice at all which has been the case since the Eurovan hasn't been sold here in the US since 2003. For those actually willing to check out the vehicle based on it's merits, it's actually a pretty good minivan. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maloosheck (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (redzone98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redzone98* »_How Many of you People that are Bashing the Routan actually HAVE a family ...

I think the problem is as follows: if I HAD family that would require a mini van, I would rather go with Dodge/Chrysler. For the same price you get more. There is nothing in Routan that I like about VWs and I do not want to pay more just for the badge.


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## The Hustler (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (maloosheck)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maloosheck* »_
I think the problem is as follows: if I HAD family that would require a mini van, I would rather go with Dodge/Chrysler. For the same price you get more. There is nothing in Routan that I like about VWs and I do not want to pay more just for the badge.


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## driver bob (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (redzone98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redzone98* »_How Many of you People that are Bashing the Routan actually HAVE a family ...
Oh and ONE kid does'nt count.
you Guys are Throwing Hate because you dont NEED a large Vehicle.
Seems to me that the Routan Bashing is from Unmarried Men < 40 years old

Two kids, a dog, bikes and a baby trailer, not quite 40 but almost there. 
Much as I hate to admit it I'm prime demographic for the minivan market and IMO the Routan misses the mark when it's a Chrysler model without the stow 'n' go.
I need a larger vehicle but I'm not prepared to pay extra money for less features just to get a VW badge.


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (driver bob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *driver bob* »_
Much as I hate to admit it I'm prime demographic for the minivan market and IMO the Routan misses the mark when it's a Chrysler model without the stow 'n' go.
I need a larger vehicle but I'm not prepared to pay extra money for less features just to get a VW badge.


I'll also have to agree with that comment that the Stow N Go should have been an option on the Routan. On the flip side, the middle seats are definitely bigger and more comfortable than the Chrysler/Dodge vans which user a smaller mid row seat due to the Stow N Go.


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## luckeydoug1 (Feb 11, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (papa_vw)*

OK, here goes...
Credentials: Age 56 235# male. Married, family (wife, 18 year old daughter and 26 year old son who is married and lives in the same house as I do and goes quite a few places with us).
I gave the Routan a very honest try. ( http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=58169183 ). It may be the best in its class, but what a horrible class it is. To be brief we found the Routan to be extremely underpowered unless it had the 4.0 engine. I really wanted HIDS but that requires the Premium SEL package and the sunroof which steals headroom and makes it tough getting into the 2nd row and very uncomfortable getting to the 3rd row (best bet for that is to stow away one of the rear seats and climb in through the rear tailgate. The RSE positioning in the SEL premium is different from the RSE without premium and in the Premium it is nearly unusable. The backup camera is quite worthless, the driver information center (??) lacks many of the features found in other VWs (Routan has only one trip computer, no instant mpg, temp/compass not visible when selecting another setting, etc). Unlike the VW system, you cannot play music directly from a flash drive or external harddrive. The music must be transferred to the built in harddrive in the Routan (read: slow, cumbersome and quite limiting in total size of files that can be stored). The covering for the sunroof is fabric like in our Eurovan. Even when the sunroof is closed and covered, it allows sun rays to enter the vehicle and on long trips you can get a mild sunburn on your arm.
Now to the handling: I thought I wanted the tow prep because of the heavy duty cooling as well as the self leveling. That totally destroyed the ride and handling. It does make the ride very smooth, but you lose any sense of road feel and the van wallows about like our big Caddy Fleetwoods from the 90s. The non-tow package version was better, but still no where as good as our Eurovan. We double checked tire pressures and tried several different settings and was still not impressed with the handling. It was more like we were aiming and guiding the vehicle rather than driving it.
Bottom line for the Routan: all of us concluded that while the Routan was not bad for what it was, none of us had that 'gotta have it' feeling, despite 0% financing and $7000 off sticker with all of the incentives and rebates.

Now as to the comments about the MkVs. We, too, have driven our MkVs (GTI and R32) on 10+ hour trips. I have been both a driver and a rear seat passenger. I will second (or third by now







) how amazing these cars are. Full of luggage, 2 passengers in the back, mile after mile of interstate, or hours of DRIVING through the mountains (Tail of the Dragon and surrounding area), these are tremendous cars. We can drive for 10 or more hours and still feel we can go further. Both give a much more enjoyable driving and riding experience than the Routan.... except that we are limited to 4 people in the MkVs and can haul 6 in the Routan. 
Unfortunately, VW doesn't really give us much choice at this point. The Tiguan is similar in size to the MkVs and will only comfortably hold 4 full sized adults. The Touareg will accomodate 5, but I don't think I would want to go from NW OH to California in one (something we have done 4 times in our Eurovan). Given the handling and seats in the Routan, I know we would be hard pressed to travel more than a couple of hundred miles at a time in the Routan, so this is not a viable option either. 
Bottom line: Until VW brings us the T5 or a truely suitable replacement for the Eurovan, our 2003 Eurovan, now with over 70K miles, will remain our people mover. (Sorry VW, I really did try to like the Routan







)



_Modified by luckeydoug1 at 9:42 AM 6-6-2009_


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## VolksZorn (Jun 21, 2006)

*The reason for VW not bringing squat to the US*

Is because you people don't want to pay what we pay in Europe for them. With the Dollar at 1.44$ for 1€ who would blame Volkswagen for not bringing any special editions or new models over there. They simply can't make a profit at the prices you guys want to pay for the cars. If they can't build it in Mexico (meaning bare bones with minimum options) you won't get it. And with people here less and less willing to subsidize US consumptions through outrageous sales prices, it's going to get even worse.
Cheers,
VolksZorn


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## jsmyle1%... (Jun 6, 2006)

*Re: The reason for VW not bringing squat to the US (VolksZorn)*

.......Hmmmm......<tapping keyboard, pondering whether to type>.....
Here's my profile:
39 year-old male with one 4 year-old son, one 15 year-old Rottie/Lab mix, and one wife that all but _*LIVES*_ @ Disney World!!!!
Other than an '06 Odyssey Touring, my wife and I have had *only* Volkswagens.
We had a good experience with the Honda for the 3 years that we leased it. Not perfect..... DVD issues, CV joint issues, and a lethargic transmission.
When the lease was up, we had full intentions of leasing yet another Odyssey.....until realizing that our timing was poor and the leasing programs were even more poor!!!!
The timing for the Routan lease, on the other hand, was much better. We were able to lease our SEL Premium with RSE and tow prep for .......oooh......about $100/month less than a comparably equipped Odyssey at the time.
So...there you have it.....
We are one of those "_idiot owners_" many refer to here.








We are under no illusion. We know what it is.....and we definitely know what it is NOT.
Other than the fact that:
(1) the 2nd row of seats DO NOT slide
(2) with our sunroof-equipped SEL, the headroom in the middle row is limited, and
(3) the visibility is BEYOND POOR when the DVD screens are down...
our Routan has performed every task asked of it.......including (don't laugh).......a somewhat spirited drive through the Smokey Mountains of Tennessee!!!!








BTW, can't wait to get my MKVI!!!!


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

I live on the California coast ,and more often then not i have a surf board in or on the roof of my Fox wagon or Subaru outback. but with a growing family. I will soon be driving a Odyssey or Sienna not a Routan.


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