# New Video: Pressure Based Presets vs. Height Based Presets



## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

Have you ever wondered about the differences between Pressure Based Presets and Height Based Preset? The Bag Riders team wanted to shed a little more light on this subject, see the link:

*If you don't see anything below, hit refresh.*






(Don't forget to watch in HD)


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

Sorry for the total noob question...

But... why would anyone ever use a pressure based system? Cost? Seems like height based is a no-brainer...


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## rollininstyle2004 (Jun 8, 2005)

specialkk43 said:


> Sorry for the total noob question...
> 
> But... why would anyone ever use a pressure based system? Cost? Seems like height based is a no-brainer...


Pressure based systems are usually cheaper, they are also easier to install as you don't need the height sesnors which can be challenging to find the right place to mount depending on the vehicle. Some people just like pressure based better, knowing exactly how much air is in your bags (I know you can add gauges to any height based system, if desired), etc. Obviously changes in tempuratuere will effect pressure and in turn ride height, and "theorteically" make it less accurate than height based systems, but its apples to oranges; there are pros and cons to both.


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## bassmanjosh (Nov 6, 2004)

I did have pressure based and agree that it was easier and more cost effective to set up. After a few road trips though, I have now switched to e-level and couldn't be happier. Not having to wonder what ride height i'm at.


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## SoIAteAPancakeToday (Apr 21, 2009)

I prefer pressure based only because I have control. If I have passengers then I just use one of my eight presets to fix it. Although I do agree height is a better overall system but I don't know if I trust it enough.


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

SoIAteAPancakeToday said:


> I prefer pressure based only because I have control. If I have passengers then I just use one of my eight presets to fix it. Although I do agree height is a better overall system but I don't know if I trust it enough.


What don't you trust about it?


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## SoIAteAPancakeToday (Apr 21, 2009)

I just don't like how I don't have control of it, how do I know how much air is in the bags or tank? How do I know if it's not doing some funky stuff? Also there seems to be a lot more stuff that can go wrong.


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

*FV-QR*

Ugh. I have so much to learn. It's overwhelming.


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## bacardicj151 (Dec 9, 2007)

If your so worried about e - level "doing something funky" then through some gauges in there.


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

specialkk43 said:


> Sorry for the total noob question...
> 
> But... why would anyone ever use a pressure based system? Cost? Seems like height based is a no-brainer...


rollininstyle nailed it. It comes down to cost for most people, though the e-level is only slightly more expensive considering how much more it does for the driver. Installation is slightly more time-consuming but it's really not hard at all if you're capable of installing the rest of the air suspension system. 




bassmanjosh said:


> I did have pressure based and agree that it was easier and more cost effective to set up. After a few road trips though, I have now switched to e-level and couldn't be happier. Not having to wonder what ride height i'm at.


Josh, you went though the same course of upgrades as I did. I personally have run both systems, once you try e-Level it's hard to go back


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## choey (Feb 11, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Seeing stuff like this makes it sooo much harder for me to buy lol I was set on v2 because of the 8 presets. This just throws me off again!


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

choey said:


> Seeing stuff like this makes it sooo much harder for me to buy lol I was set on v2 because of the 8 presets. This just throws me off again!


As far as I'm concerned, it's not a question of which system is better, the question is are YOU willing to spend a little more for the superior technology. :thumbup:


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't mind spending more money for better stuff...

I would WAY rather pay more for something that's gonna be less of a headache... it's part of why I'm considering bags over coils (the end of my driveway was a B*TCH getting in and out of with my coil set up on my MK6 GTI)

I'm just trying to wrap my head around all the different options out there lol


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

specialkk43 said:


> I don't mind spending more money for better stuff...
> 
> I would WAY rather pay more for something that's gonna be less of a headache... it's part of why I'm considering bags over coils (the end of my driveway was a B*TCH getting in and out of with my coil set up on my MK6 GTI)
> 
> I'm just trying to wrap my head around all the different options out there lol


Shoot me a PM if you want to go over the pros and cons of each control system :thumbup:


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## Jon. (Jan 6, 2010)

This further justifies why I'm going with E-Level...Will, once my tax return check comes in the mail I will happily be jumping on that monthly special you got going right now :thumbup::beer:


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## MKV_Jetta808 (Jul 13, 2011)

Sweet video just waiting on my shipment!!!! Been tracking UPS since it got sent. 4 of my presets will be for PAX loads.


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## Billburt (May 2, 2006)

and that's why I love my e-level.


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## kilimats (Mar 5, 2006)

Autopilot V2 management owner will hate this thread :laugh:


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## kilimats (Mar 5, 2006)

choey said:


> Seeing stuff like this makes it sooo much harder for me to buy lol I was set on v2 because of the 8 presets. This just throws me off again!


you got v2 because it had 4 more preset compared to e-level? this makes no sense..lost


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## 27psigti (Feb 2, 2007)

I bought the pilot v2 because I done have 3 friends anyway.


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## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

I :heart: My E-Level


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## 03GTI (Mar 17, 2002)

e-Level or bust!


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## bsA41.8T (Feb 16, 2004)

i owned the new v2 system for about 1 1/2 months

















and ive now changed to elevel and wish i wouldnt of wasted the time and effort on the v2


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## choey (Feb 11, 2007)

kilimats said:


> you got v2 because it had 4 more preset compared to e-level? this makes no sense..lost


I didnt buy yet. Im still stuck on the management issue the main thing for me is the install too.
My questions is if its mostly always just me and maybe +1 is really needed?
With v2 cant I just make a preset that simulates weight in the car? 
With E level since there is more involved more things to go wrong as well?

I am noob tho the air stuff just trying to make the right choice


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## bacardicj151 (Dec 9, 2007)

choey said:


> I didnt buy yet. Im still stuck on the management issue the main thing for me is the install too.
> My questions is if its mostly always just me and maybe +1 is really needed?
> With v2 cant I just make a preset that simulates weight in the car?
> With E level since there is more involved more things to go wrong as well?
> ...


Pretty much what I'm going threw in my head too


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## Monkeykungfu (May 15, 2009)

Thanks for posting this video Will. This is what I've been looking for a while now.

Clean MKIV in the video too! :thumbup:


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## Billburt (May 2, 2006)

E-Level wins 












/thread


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## Slamtastic (Jul 24, 2010)

Billburt said:


> E-Level wins
> /thread



:thumbup::thumbup:


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## 03GTI (Mar 17, 2002)

choey said:


> I didnt buy yet. Im still stuck on the management issue the main thing for me is the install too.
> My questions is if its mostly always just me and maybe +1 is really needed?
> With v2 cant I just make a preset that simulates weight in the car?
> With E level since there is more involved more things to go wrong as well?
> ...


Why try to make up a preset that will simulate something that the eLevel will ACTUALLY do? 

I have been fortunate enough to have owned an E55 AMG with airmatic suspension. It's self leveling and has height sensors (one of each of the front wheels, and one for the rear axle). The eLevel is as close as to that Mercedes-Benz solution as any other, AND it uses actual individual sensors for each rear wheels vs one for Mercedes! 

To put it in dummy terms: If a height based preset setup is good enough for a 500HP AMG, shouldn't it be good for anyone's car?


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## bacardicj151 (Dec 9, 2007)

*From another forum*

Posted by Ian from airlift -

One thing I would like to point out is that a vehicles coil spring suspension will sag when you add more weight or raise when you take weight away (full tank vs 1/4 tank of gas).... Pressure based systems will do the same, and that's why there are more than one pre-set that the user can define however they would like. Its that easy. 

This debate will go on forever, I know this. There are advantages and disadvantage


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## VR6VR6 (Oct 11, 2008)

I recently installed V2 and am happy with it. I don't have passengers often but when I do its really easy to bump a couple PSI in the bags.. and I don't use my GTI as a truck. I realize e-level would be ideal for "set it and forget it"... but...

When I bought V2.. with AirLift XLs front, Airlift performance rear, Bilstein rear shocks, 3/8 line, duel VIAIR 400c compressors, 2 SMC water traps.. with the Bagriders deal of the month.. my cost was $2700 shipped. e-level with the same options (including Accuair power kit) and on sale from BR ... around $3500 shipped. 

I know everyone isn't like me, but I don't have a lot of money.... $2700 was really a big deal. $3500 was simply not an option. 

Basically what I'm saying is if you have the extra $800 or so.. go for it! But if you're like me and on a budget, definitely don't feel guilty about going with V2. It is a very nice system. I'm proud to have it, myself!


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## choey (Feb 11, 2007)

VR6VR6 said:


> I recently installed V2 and am happy with it. I don't have passengers often but when I do its really easy to bump a couple PSI in the bags.. and I don't use my GTI as a truck. I realize e-level would be ideal for "set it and forget it"... but...
> 
> When I bought V2.. with AirLift XLs front, Airlift performance rear, Bilstein rear shocks, 3/8 line, duel VIAIR 400c compressors, 2 SMC water traps.. with the Bagriders deal of the month.. my cost was $2700 shipped. e-level with the same options (including Accuair power kit) and on sale from BR ... around $3500 shipped.
> 
> ...



:thumbup: That my issue price its either save for a little bit longer and go e-level or buy now and go v2. Also like you I ride along 98% of the time and the only kind of hauling I do in my car is maybe throw like 20-50lbs more weight in it I dont think that could throw it off that much


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## 98DUB (Feb 21, 2003)

VR6VR6 said:


> I recently installed V2 and am happy with it. I don't have passengers often but when I do its really easy to bump a couple PSI in the bags.. and I don't use my GTI as a truck. I realize e-level would be ideal for "set it and forget it"... but...


At the end of the day, isn't that why you would buy a auto leveling system? So it does the work? Bumping up a couple PSI in the bags is easy, I know, but thats the whole beauty of E-level.


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## VR6VR6 (Oct 11, 2008)

98DUB said:


> At the end of the day, isn't that why you would buy a auto leveling system? So it does the work? Bumping up a couple PSI in the bags is easy, I know, but thats the whole beauty of E-level.


Yes absolutely! But whether or not that _ little bit_ of convenience is worth the extra *chunk* of change is up to the buyer. 

My post is for the folks like me who aren't BALLERS...... If e-level doesn't fit your budget and V2 does, awesome! V2 works as it should and is suitable! I don't regret my decision to go with V2 and neither should current and future Bag Riders customers.


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## Billburt (May 2, 2006)

VR6VR6 said:


> Yes absolutely! But whether or not that _ little bit_ of convenience is worth the extra *chunk* of change is up to the buyer.
> 
> My post is for the folks like me who aren't BALLERS...... If e-level doesn't fit your budget and V2 does, awesome! V2 works as it should and is suitable! I don't regret my decision to go with V2 and neither should current and future Bag Riders customers.


That's exactly what I was saying in the first few months of owning the V1 management, but then I got sick of trying to know if my front right was level with my left without getting out of the car and even after that its not very accurate because then it doesn't account for your weight when you get in. 

Trust me when I say that after a while you will wish that you had the computer do it for you. The only thing I wish the e-level had is the option to plug in to a screen and provide digital read-out of the pressure in the tank and bags. It would be sick if you could use an aux port on the back of an aftermarket head unit and run the gauges through there. It just feels weird not knowing what the pressures are (even though I know I can run gauges).


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## VR6VR6 (Oct 11, 2008)

Billburt said:


> That's exactly what I was saying in the first few months of owning the V1 management, but then I got sick of trying to know if my front right was level with my left without getting out of the car and even after that its not very accurate because then it doesn't account for your weight when you get in.
> 
> Trust me when I say that after a while you will wish that you had the computer do it for you. The only thing I wish the e-level had is the option to plug in to a screen and provide digital read-out of the pressure in the tank and bags. It would be sick if you could use an aux port on the back of an aftermarket head unit and run the gauges through there. It just feels weird not knowing what the pressures are (even though I know I can run gauges).


I understand this for sure. For me it came down to... Bags and V2 or no bags? I wanted digital... I wanted presets.. and I didn't want blown coils/busted oil pans anymore. So I got V2 and I'm stoked. :thumbup:


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

Ok, so for everyone posting in here...

Is there a reason, OTHER than money, that you would chose V2 over e-level?


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## VR6VR6 (Oct 11, 2008)

specialkk43 said:


> Ok, so for everyone posting in here...
> 
> Is there a reason, OTHER than money, that you would chose V2 over e-level?


No.


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## choey (Feb 11, 2007)

Install is a bit more complicated too and more possible things to fail and go wrong? But other than them mostly just $$$$


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 08highdef (Jan 10, 2011)

specialkk43 said:


> Ok, so for everyone posting in here...
> 
> Is there a reason, OTHER than money, that you would chose V2 over e-level?


Here was my factor..

.I do not want gauges in my car because it looks clutered to me. 

I have never had more than 2 people in my car in the 4 years that I have owned it so a preset will work awesome for me.

I have not had airbags on a car before ( just mini trucks ) and I wanted to get into it at a cheaper price and can always upgrade later.

these are the factors I used when I got my V2 and they are still true for me. I might upgrade later but by then who knows what will be out there maybe voice activated


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

08highdef said:


> .I do not want gauges in my car because it looks clutered to me.


I agree that I think gauges can look cluttered. I would want to find a way to mount them so that it looks clean and almost OEM. So if you have the V2 there are no gauges at all? Or just less?



08highdef said:


> I have not had airbags on a car before ( just mini trucks ) and I wanted to get into it at a cheaper price and can always upgrade later.


That's about the only interaction I've had with airbags... on a mini truck... and it was years ago... so pretty much everything has changed.



Thanks everyone for answering my questions! eace:


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## Simplicity (Nov 6, 2007)

specialkk43 said:


> Ok, so for everyone posting in here...
> 
> Is there a reason, OTHER than money, that you would chose V2 over e-level?


Yes, I really liked the Compressor diagnostic features, as well as the option to know how long in minutes, my pump has been running. Great feature. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

choey said:


> Install is a bit more complicated too and more possible things to fail and go wrong? But other than them mostly just $$$$



PM'd you :beer:


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Shoot me a PM if you want to go over the pros and cons of each control system :thumbup:


PM'd yesterday...


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

specialkk43 said:


> PM'd yesterday...


I hit ya back


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I hit ya back


Thank you! 

I got it and am reviewing it... lots of info... but between this thread, your PM and a couple other threads I've been following... I'm convinced I'm bagging the R! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Now to figure out where to get the work done (not doing it myself!) and put together a kit!


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## specialkk43 (Aug 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I hit ya back


PM'd again!! Haha


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

specialkk43 said:


> PM'd again!! Haha


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## hussdog426 (Nov 20, 2011)

is the V2 worse than the e-level because i going to do the V2


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

hussdog426 said:


> is the V2 worse than the e-level because i going to do the V2


It isn't a question of better or worse. It's a question of if you want to have a height based system or a pressure based system. The vast majority of vehicles running aftermarket air ride in North America and in Europe are using analog systems. Operating these systems comes down to the driver determining their heights based on what their gauges tell them, these system are pressure based and they work very well. 

*When it comes to using user defined preset heights, the e-Level reigns supreme since it's able to compensate for changes in load. As shown in the clip, a pressure based system will reach the correct pressure, not necessarily the desired height.*


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## toplessvw (Jul 31, 2003)

Having never owned e-level I have a question on how it reacts under spirited driving with long sweeping bends when the one side of your car would want to squat due to road force. To me the changes while going corner to corner would be diserning. Pressure based systems have been proven to be fine on a autocross how are the height based systems for people who like low and performance driving.


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## hussdog426 (Nov 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> It isn't a question of better or worse. It's a question of if you want to have a height based system or a pressure based system. The vast majority of vehicles running aftermarket air ride in North America and in Europe are using analog systems. Operating these systems comes down to the driver determining their heights based on what their gauges tell them, these system are pressure based and they work very well.
> 
> *When it comes to using user defined preset heights, the e-Level reigns supreme since it's able to compensate for changes in load. As shown in the clip, a pressure based system will reach the correct pressure, not necessarily the desired height.*


Oh ok thanks for the response, I'll still going to do the pressure based system


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2012)

toplessvw said:


> Having never owned e-level I have a question on how it reacts under spirited driving with long sweeping bends when the one side of your car would want to squat due to road force. To me the changes while going corner to corner would be diserning. Pressure based systems have been proven to be fine on a autocross how are the height based systems for people who like low and performance driving.


The e-Level system's RideMonitor Mode will only make corrections after 5 seconds while parked and 45 seconds while driving. We also go to great lengths in the algorithms to cancel out skewed data like long turns, stops, or starts. The RideMonitor Mode is a very critical element to properly leveling a vehicle with air suspension and I will try to explain the reasoning below:

After a typical initial adjustment in your driveway or a parking lot the vehicle will be level for that circumstance. But, once you begin driving the system will typically make the following 2-3 necessary adjustments: 

1.) The first, about 30 seconds after leaving the driveway to correct for initial angle and suspension bushing bind.
2.) The second, once you are up to freeway speed and have some drag lifting up the front of the car. 
3.) And a third, once you have been driving for a while and have heated up the air in the air springs enough that they have expanded out of tolerance. 

By holding such tight tolerances on the vehicle ride height, an e-Level system is actually a very critical element to making a vehicle with air suspension handle well, (a balanced ride, turns right the same as it turns left, etc).

I hope that answers your question, but I am happy to answer more if it didn't.


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## VR6 NRG (Apr 23, 1999)

Great thread. Learned a lot.


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The e-Level system's RideMonitor Mode will only make corrections after 5 seconds while parked and 45 seconds while driving. We also go to great lengths in the algorithms to cancel out skewed data like long turns, stops, or starts. The RideMonitor Mode is a very critical element to properly leveling a vehicle with air suspension and I will try to explain the reasoning below:
> 
> After a typical initial adjustment in your driveway or a parking lot the vehicle will be level for that circumstance. But, once you begin driving the system will typically make the following 2-3 necessary adjustments:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post Reno! Very informative :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## DubFoundDead (Feb 18, 2010)

This thread was super informative. (Not that I have money for bags but...) I've been so back and forth between V2 and e-level and this thread really helped me a lot. I just got rid of my GLI and now I have an e30 that I plan on bagging in the future and in my opinion I think I'll go with e-level. Ease is what I'm looking for honestly. And I've lived with coils long enough that saving for a couple extra weeks to get e-level over V2 is no issue for me. I'll just live life like I have for the past however many years. 

Also, [email protected], I sent you a pm. Just for a more 1-on-1 about it. I was hoping you could just copy and paste me the same information that you gave other people. I wanna talk compressors a little bit too.


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

If you're planning on bagging an e30, you should talk to Mike Hockman aka white325is on R3Vlimited and e30tech. He's done numerous e30's and has a countless tips/tricks for installing. :thumbup::beer:


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

DubFoundDead said:


> This thread was super informative. (Not that I have money for bags but...) I've been so back and forth between V2 and e-level and this thread really helped me a lot. I just got rid of my GLI and now I have an e30 that I plan on bagging in the future and in my opinion I think I'll go with e-level. Ease is what I'm looking for honestly. And I've lived with coils long enough that saving for a couple extra weeks to get e-level over V2 is no issue for me. I'll just live life like I have for the past however many years.
> 
> Also, [email protected], I sent you a pm. Just for a more 1-on-1 about it. I was hoping you could just copy and paste me the same information that you gave other people. I wanna talk compressors a little bit too.


 Responding now. :beer::beer:


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## vwynn (Oct 11, 2011)

both have there ups n downs. 

Pressure: 
cheaper 
less stuff to install 
cheaper. 


Rideheight: 
more expensive (~$500+) 
a few more tid bits to install 
sensor arms snapping by three wheeling (from what ive heard n read) 


I like the rideheight senors because it keeps the same height regardless of weight. Pressure system can do the same thing but not automatically. Just gotta play around with it or know how much air for 2 peeps, 3, 4 etc. maybe have a post it LOL! 

witht he V2 at least u have multiple presents which you can have for multiple people. 1 preset can be for 2 peeps, another 3, etc. but how accurate? iono 

i have the V1 and it serves me well since i only drive myself. when someone ask for a ride i just tell them the car is too low to take anyone  n not air up.


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## kilimats (Mar 5, 2006)

vwynn said:


> both have there ups n downs.
> 
> *sensor arms snapping by three wheeling (from what ive heard n read)*


 If you ensure there is enough travel during the install, there is no reason why they would snap during three wheeling


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

vwynn said:


> sensor arms snapping by three wheeling (from what ive heard n read)


 This problem is easily avoided if the install is done right.


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## vwynn (Oct 11, 2011)

w3rd. anything installed properly should be as good as gold. 

That being said i kinda wish i went elevel. :laugh: 

in time


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

At work, we are making an air ride demo platform that people can stand on and walk around to shift the loading of the bags. We are using both height and pressure sensors  Although, the height sensors we are using are ~$150 a piece  But still, height based is where its at, even though I have V1 on my car. 
I never realized that accuair didnt come with a pressure read out, does it keep filling the bags if there is too much pressure but ride height hasnt been attained?


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

Zorba2.0 said:


> I never realized that accuair didnt come with a pressure read out, does it keep filling the bags if there is too much pressure but ride height hasnt been attained?


 This scenario never happens (or at least it hasn't happened in our experience). Even towing a decent sized trailer behind our Mk4 (a LOT more weight than one would ever put in the car itself), the suspension was still able to reach ride height without going over the recommended pressures in any of the bags. :thumbup:


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