# Need opinions on brake setup for mk4 R32. Non daily driven.



## lil_kano (Apr 11, 2007)

So I'm hopefully picking up a replacement DD soon and will be working on making my R a dedicated track car. Probably little to no autox events. I like more of a multi-lap event on the weekends.

So my plan so far is to:

- upgrade my front rotors to the ECS 2 piece light weight rotors (slotted only).
- tyrol motorsport bushings.
- motul 600 fluid.
- ss brake lines.
- brake cooling ducts.

Now my questions on two things:

- Would it be worth/benefical to upgrade the caliper? Not in terms of going for a BBK but to get a lighter & better caliper? I know our stock caliper is heavy. but at the same time is pretty powerfull.

- Would upgrading the rears be beneficial or would throwing of the biasing be harmfull?

I'm more of function over form so having small rear brakes doesn't bother me.

Lastly, any other suggestions to add to my list??

Thanks! :beer:


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

Looks like a good setup. Stay with kits that keep the bias balance. 

Lighter calipers will help handling. Stoptech has good options. 

http://www.stoptech.com/ 

http://www.powerslot.com/partsapp/details.php?id=835&makes=30&models=1252&years=2004&categories=22 

You will need to decide on pad compounds. Ferrodo DS2500 front and Hawk HPS rear is a common combination. 

Temperature paint on the rotor edges will tell you how hot they are getting and will help determine the need for cooling and refine pad choice.


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## lil_kano (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks man.



greyhare said:


> Looks like a good setup. Stay with kits that keep the bias balance.
> 
> Lighter calipers will help handling. Stoptech has good options.
> 
> ...


 Well i'm actually trying to stay away from kits. I believe Alcon makes a caliper replacement that utilizes our stock rotros. I will try to find the link I have for it later (at work right now).

But with upgrading the front caliper i'm wondering if I should upgrade the rear. I know there really is only the option of getting larger rotors back there but i'm sure that'll make a difference on biasing.



greyhare said:


> You will need to decide on pad compounds. Ferrodo DS2500 front and Hawk HPS rear is a common combination.
> 
> Temperature paint on the rotor edges will tell you how hot they are getting and will help determine the need for cooling and refine pad choice.


 
I'm still doing more research on pads. I've seen a few mixed reviews on various ones. Like I mentioned i'll be using for track only so hopefully I can find a good pad to match.

Thanks for the hint on how to monitor heat! :thumbup:


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

Personally, I would go with your current plan. You can gain more handling benefits by going to the smallest diameter wheel that will fit over the brakes and the lightest you can afford. 

As an example my winter wheels are 16x7 and 21lbs each, my summer wheels are 16x7 and 11lbs each.


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## ryan56bauer (Jul 26, 2010)

greyhare said:


> Personally, I would go with your current plan. You can gain more handling benefits by going to the smallest diameter wheel that will fit over the brakes and the lightest you can afford.
> 
> As an example my winter wheels are 16x7 and 21lbs each, my summer wheels are 16x7 and 11lbs each.


 

Hey greyhare, I have a question, why do you opt for 2 separate sets for hot and cold weather? Better traction control??


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

uh, i'm guessing he lives somewhere that it actually snows?


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## lil_kano (Apr 11, 2007)

yes, most people in snow states have a 2nd set of wheels with snow tires..



greyhare said:


> Personally, I would go with your current plan. You can gain more handling benefits by going to the smallest diameter wheel that will fit over the brakes and the lightest you can afford.
> 
> As an example my winter wheels are 16x7 and 21lbs each, my summer wheels are 16x7 and 11lbs each.


 
I plan to run a light weight wheel. trying to stick with 18's but I want to go wider for sure. Something like 18x9 hopefully.


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

ryan56bauer said:


> Hey greyhare, I have a question, why do you opt for 2 separate sets for hot and cold weather? Better traction control??


 We don't get a lot of snow or ice here; it gets dry when it gets cold. Max performance summer tires (RE-01R's) do not like when it gets below 40*F. Summer only tires are like rocks in the winter and near suicidal in the snow.


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

greyhare said:


> We don't get a lot of snow or ice here; it gets dry when it gets cold. Max performance summer tires (RE-01R's) do not like when it gets below 40*F. Summer only tires are like rocks in the winter and near suicidal in the snow.


 truth... my cousin used to run his mustang on kuhmo MX's in Cleveland winters... :banghead: he's a car-idiot though.


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

If you don't have track experience you should spend your money on seat time! R32 brakes are more than capable.


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## IJM (Jul 30, 2001)

gehr said:


> If you don't have track experience you should spend your money on seat time! R32 brakes are more than capable.


 I tend to agree, though good pads make all the difference. You might want to try a dedicated track pad (Hawk Blue or HT-10) up front with something like HPS in the rear. That should give you a better balance as far as the front/rear bias. IMO, the Ferodo DS2500 tends to get overcooked at the track.


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

IJM said:


> I tend to agree, though good pads make all the difference. You might want to try a dedicated track pad (Hawk Blue or HT-10) up front with something like HPS in the rear. That should give you a better balance as far as the front/rear bias. IMO, the Ferodo DS2500 tends to get overcooked at the track.


 Blue's are plenty. Especially if you're not on R compounds. You may want to do a fluid flush to a higher temp fluid.


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## lil_kano (Apr 11, 2007)

KG18t said:


> Blue's are plenty. Especially if you're not on R compounds. You may want to do a fluid flush to a *higher temp fluid*.


 ^on the way already.

Thanks for the suggestions on pads! I may have more question on that later though. :laugh:


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

what kind of tires are you on? If you're on street tires Hawk Blues may be too much bite, you may want to drop back to HP+. Hawk blues will light up your ABS real quick on street tires...


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## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

It is worth noting that when European Car did their R32 Tuner shootout a couple years back, the R32 running stock brakes (pads might have been upgraded) out-braked the competition consistently. I believe these tests were only done in a straight line, with no track time logged (or very little), but it spoke volumes as to the capabilities of the stock setup. 

I only wish the calipers weren't so darn heavy. 

I think you plans are spot on :thumbup:


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## lil_kano (Apr 11, 2007)

KG18t said:


> what kind of tires are you on? If you're on street tires Hawk Blues may be too much bite, you may want to drop back to HP+. Hawk blues will light up your ABS real quick on street tires...


 Really?! Well for now I'll be using some good street tires but would like to try R comps some day.



Krazee said:


> It is worth noting that when European Car did their R32 Tuner shootout a couple years back, the R32 running stock brakes (pads might have been upgraded) out-braked the competition consistently. I believe these tests were only done in a straight line, with no track time logged (or very little), but it spoke volumes as to the capabilities of the stock setup.
> 
> I only wish the calipers weren't so darn heavy.
> 
> I think you plans are spot on :thumbup:


 thanks bud. 

Yeah i've always been very impressed by info on the stock setup. Well aside from weight issues. I have heard of heating issues coming after some hard laps. Hoping the cooling ducts and the new/better brake fluid will serve thier purpose.


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## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

lil_kano said:


> Yeah i've always been very impressed by info on the stock setup. Well aside from weight issues. I have heard of heating issues coming after some hard laps. Hoping the cooling ducts and the new/better brake fluid will serve thier purpose.


 you are welcome. 

While I haven't had personal experience with R32 brakes, the following is considered common place and general knowledge. 

Someone tracking a 100% stock setup will probably experience fade on account of stock pads AND stock rotors. The reasoning behind the pads are obvious - they are design for daily street use and as such have a higher coefficient of friction at a lower temperature (so they stop as close to normal in winter conditions). The hotter they get, the more they start to glaze and the less effective they become. For rotors, it has to do with them being one piece. Slotted/drilled rotors allow for gases to escape and heat to dissipate more freely, but again, they are only delaying the inevitable. 

By switching to a two piece rotor, you will drastically lower your rotor temperatures. Depending on how hard you are driving on a given track day, you could see brake temperatures drop anywhere between 150 - 300* compared to an identical setup with one piece rotors. This, combined with proper track pads, will give you amazing braking performance consistently. 

I know _Sport Compact Car_ did a comparison with a bone stock EVO 9 and Bug-eyed STI. They found a rather technical downhill somewhere in California and swapped ONLY two-piece rotors onto the otherwise stock braking setups. They then proceeded to bomb down the hill as fast as possible. The differences in temperatures between 100% stock one-piece setups and two-piece setups was shocking. I'll try to find the article, but unfortunately SCC is now defunct. 

I am willing to bet that a properly sorted setup, as you plan on doing, will be plenty for the odd track day you intend to use the car for. If you were building a dedicated track/race car, then a 4-piston setup might be in the cards. 

Here is the article: http://www.modified.com/projectcars/0409scc_project_mitsubishi_evo_vs_subaru_sti/index.html


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## lil_kano (Apr 11, 2007)

i'll make sure to read that once i get out of work!


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