# DSG clutch upgrade?



## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Is anyone running an upgraded clutchpack on their DSG? I am getting slippage... sometimes 2-3 times, before it grabs. This is typically in higher RPMs (6-7k) at low gear pulls (usually 2nd or third, although it happened once from fourth to fifth). Realistically, this is an upgrade I should have looked into a while ago, as I am pretty close to the advertised limit on torque for the gearbox. 

If anyone is running an upgrade, may I ask what you have and what your impressions are? I am considering going directly to HGP, but I want to know what else is out there and make an informed decision. Thanks in advance.


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## NYCameron (Nov 17, 2010)

npace said:


> Is anyone running an upgraded clutchpack on their DSG? I am getting slippage... sometimes 2-3 times, before it grabs. This is typically in higher RPMs (6-7k) at low gear pulls (usually 2nd or third, although it happened once from fourth to fifth). Realistically, this is an upgrade I should have looked into a while ago, as I am pretty close to the advertised limit on torque for the gearbox.
> 
> If anyone is running an upgrade, may I ask what you have and what your impressions are? I am considering going directly to HGP, but I want to know what else is out there and make an informed decision. Thanks in advance.


I am interested in the same. I sometimes get slippage from fifth to sixth, but only under heavy load

in for some answers opcorn: and hopefully they don't cost an arm and leg...


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

With a UM DSG tune, Zevion was holding well over 650wHP (can't remember the torque, but obviously much higher than APR stage III's torque) on the stock clutch packs. You'd have to talk directly to UM to get the highest level DSG tuning possible.

I've seen a couple of other guys running 62mm turbos on DSG, and Adrenalin Tuning and Boba Motoring have built cars on _stock_ hardware DQ250 boxes that run low 9s in the 1/4. Boba also has a 975 *WHEEL* HP MKI running a DSG, but I have no idea what they've done to the hardware to reach that insane level.


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## Raacerx (Mar 24, 2006)

You've got something else going on. These transmissions, with proper tuning, can handle incredible amounts of power as others have mentioned. There are quite a few examples of people pushing over 500 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels, even at over 100,000 miles. 

I assume you're running aftermarket software if you've got upgraded power, so I bet you that is your problem. Get the proper tuning, and I bet you'll be cherry.

If you're deadset on spending a huge amount of money to upgrade when it's most likely not necessary, there are upgraded clutch packs you can go with, but they were made before people realized the potential these transmissions have.


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## thenamescolby (Apr 18, 2007)

the transmission is limited to output 250 ft-lbs in the stock configuration so it will bleed off torque by slipping the clutch. If you're going to do pretty much anything to the engine, you need a DSG tune to increase the output limit. UM has a tune that is inexpensive and increases the output limit by a conservative amount if you're just doing bolt-ons, or you can spend more for their stage II and III tunes which increase output accordingly, but cost more.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

So, I guess I should have said this, but I am running HPA's stage 3 DSG tune. Shifts are incredible, torque limiter is gone, but there is definitely a hesitation under heavy acceleration at the 6-7k rpm range between 2nd and third. I'm pretty sure it isn't a software issue, and I thought I would ask before going to back to HPA to try and find out. They seem to be going through some kind of re-structuring, as Keir suddenly left right before I got the software dongle. Darryl had mentioned a spec upgrade, but some people have had issues with those clutch packs as well. 

Maybe it isn't slippage... now you guys have me second guessing myself. The best way I can describe it is a short 2-3 shudders in a row right at redline, and then the car completes the shift and continues on. So does this sound like something else, or.... not really sure where to go from here.


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## JRutter (Nov 25, 2009)

When I had my HPA tune, there was an issue with the shift point vs the exact point the rev limiter kicked in. I had to go back and get it tweaked so that it would shift properly without the rev limiter starting to engage. Eventually, I just went with UM's package of tunes.

[edit] Just to elaborate: my issue was that a shift would be allowed at the top of the rev range at a point where as the revs increased during the shift, the limiter would kick in mid-shift.


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## krazyboi (May 19, 2004)

UM tune, no slippage @ 386awhp / 432awtq


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

So the consensus is that it's the tune and not a hardware issue? That's good, because it will save me some $$, however, it's going to be a PITA to get my DSG tune diagnosed. APR.... when are you going to finally do a DSG tune?


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## NYCameron (Nov 17, 2010)

npace said:


> APR.... when are you going to finally do a DSG tune?


QFE

seriously...mainly because then we would know everything would work together nicely...and since my sponsor shop is an APR dealer


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## Ponto (Jan 11, 2012)

krazyboi said:


> um tune, no slippage @ 386awhp / 432awtq


f






u


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

JRutter said:


> When I had my HPA tune, there was an issue with the shift point vs the exact point the rev limiter kicked in. I had to go back and get it tweaked so that it would shift properly without the rev limiter starting to engage. Eventually, I just went with UM's package of tunes.
> 
> [edit] Just to elaborate: my issue was that a shift would be allowed at the top of the rev range at a point where as the revs increased during the shift, the limiter would kick in mid-shift.


Sounds like exactly what the OP is going through. I have stock DSG software with a Stg 2 tune and depending on the conditions will very rarely hit the rev limiter before it shifts. Maybe it is bleeding off torque via the clutches and waiting for the drivetrain to catch up before shifting?


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

snubbs64 said:


> Sounds like exactly what the OP is going through. I have stock DSG software with a Stg 2 tune and depending on the conditions will very rarely hit the rev limiter before it shifts. Maybe it is bleeding off torque via the clutches and waiting for the drivetrain to catch up before shifting?


I think this ^^^ may be the issue. I went and warmed the car up today and did a few pulls and this seems to be what is going on. I contacted both APR and HPA, so I will report back with their answers.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

*Update*

I got an email fom Marcel at HPA today, which seems to confirm the suspiscion that it's actually the ECU tune from APR. Essentially, since the DSG had stock software when I went to stage 3, the APR tune probably had some coding to "trick" the DSG into allowing a higher torque range. This isn't APR's fault, mind you; the DSG had the stock software when the ECU was tuned. I'm not going to pretend to understand all of this, because a computer programmer I am not, and with can-bus it gets even trickier, but here is Marcel's response:



> The question comes to play, how does APR handle the engine tuning for any oem DSG. The gearbox has a TQ threshold and historically, APR has “tricked” the oem DSG by feeding it a false TQ reference to avoid limp mode.
> 
> If the tune is currently reporting under the 350NM TQ of the oem limiter, then the DSG will not muster up the required claming load on the clutches.
> 
> ...


My semi-educated guess, based on the discussion here so far, is that it is the second of the two issues he suggests in the last paragraph. My next step is to log what Marcel suggested and return the logs to HPA, as well as communicate this with APR. I may be in for another ECU tune from the sound of things, so we'll see. I probably won't be able to do any logging until this weekend, but I'll re-post with logs and any other responses I get from either end. Luckily, it sounds like a software issue, which is a lot cheaper and easier to deal with than taking apart the transmission.


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Still no answer from APR. I contacted both their main sales and my local dealer. The local dealer was responsive but said he would have to look into it. The good news is that sales told me DSG software should be released soon. I'm not holding my breath, because I think we've all been hearing that for a while. APR did tell me that it would probably take a few days to get a good answer back. In the meantime, if I do any "spirited" driving I'll keep it in manual mode and shift just before I hit redline.


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## NYCameron (Nov 17, 2010)

npace said:


> The good news is that sales told me DSG software should be released soon. I'm not holding my breath, because I think we've all been hearing that for a while.


good idea...

who remembers that app they were talking about a while back? :laugh::banghead:


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## eXcelon53 (Jan 7, 2009)

My DSG was slipping like crazy with KO4 and Stage II+ APR software. I got the United Motorsports Stage II DSG tune and it's a brand new car. Zero slippage. :thumbup: UM DSG tune!


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks, but I already have a DSG tune... really that isn't the issue. Synching between the two... that is a consideration. I had zero slippage with Stage 3 and no tune, so it's most likely a matter of synching up the tunes, as posted above.


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## d0lphinGrey (Jan 6, 2006)

Any updates to this? What was the verdict npace?

TIA


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## npace (Sep 3, 2012)

d0lphinGrey said:


> Any updates to this? What was the verdict npace?
> 
> TIA


Lots of frustration and no results, mostly because I was living in Europe, just moved back to the states, and need to hit up HPA for a fix because APR was no help at all. Their answer is to either: A) buy an APR DSG tune, or B) pay them to change the ECU tune. It pissed me off a lot, because APR didn't come out with DSG software until a year and a half after I got the HPA stuff, so it isn't like I was just trying to mix and match and get flawless results despite a proven solution. APR didn't have anything available, and from what other users of their DSG tune are saying, they still pretty much don't. Really the problem is the CS APR ECU tune that has the engine's rev limiter kicking in before it needs to. My temp fix is to use manual mode for high hp shenanigans and shift just before 7k rpm. Not my favorite way of fixing it, but it works. And since I'm pretty much done with APR and in the process of starting a bottom end rebuild to go with a bigger turbo and more HP, there's no point in paying them to fix the engine tune. I could contact HPA and get an updated TCU tune to match what the APR tune is doing, but it would be a lot of hassle since I can just ask the new company doing the ECU tune to set the rev limiter higher, allowing the TCU to do its job. I hope that made sense. Did that make sense?


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