# Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor ( i cant pinpoint it)



## veedublvr (Feb 2, 2001)

Ive noticed that theres an increased amount of noise coming from the center of the motor, near he intake manifold.. 
When the car is idling it sounds like a TDI, no codes,no smoke, no burning coolant. Does he V6 have a shifter rod in the intake that could be causing the problem ?
Anyone else experience this


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (veedublvr)*

Water pump on way out...maybe??? Heard wp on this motor is suspect...hopin mine craps out B4 75K miles so I'll get most of timing belt change labor covered under 100K powertrain warranty which covers water pump!


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## veedublvr (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (spitpilot)*

Water pump and timing belts have already been done.


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (veedublvr)*

WaterPump for sure!!!


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

Hey,
I got a 2001 VR with about 22k miles on it and I got the same thing. I took it to the dub dealership since it's still under warranty and he said he couldn't hear anything. It's pretty annoying. I took it there on three different occassions and all three times, it wouldn't make the knocking sounds. My guess is either the valves knocking (which the dealership says it isn't) or oil level problems. The dealership says it's probably the oil. However, the knocking as persisted through 2 oil changes and btw the waterpumps and timing belts have been checked out and they're fine. So I guess I'm in the same boat. I've noticed it knocks a bit louder when it's parked on unlevel ground and when it's a bit hot or humid out. Anybody got any ideas?


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: (Bratwurst Rocket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bratwurst Rocket* »_Hey,
I got a 2001 VR with about 22k miles on it and I got the same thing. I took it to the dub dealership since it's still under warranty and he said he couldn't hear anything. It's pretty annoying. I took it there on three different occassions and all three times, it wouldn't make the knocking sounds. My guess is either the valves knocking (which the dealership says it isn't) or oil level problems. The dealership says it's probably the oil. However, the knocking as persisted through 2 oil changes and btw the waterpumps and timing belts have been checked out and they're fine. So I guess I'm in the same boat. I've noticed it knocks a bit louder when it's parked on unlevel ground and when it's a bit hot or humid out. Anybody got any ideas?

Well with your problem, you need to check plugs, and air filter... Also what type of fuel, and oil do you use... And what is the mantience on that car... (what has been done???)


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## jhillyer (Feb 17, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (veedublvr)*

Like a TDI, just for fun, what if it is knock?
Clapping valves?
Cool if you capture audio and post here.


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: (Bboble)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bboble* »_
Well with your problem, you need to check plugs, and air filter... Also what type of fuel, and oil do you use... And what is the mantience on that car... (what has been done???)

Hmm, alright, I must admit the filter for the CAI needs to be cleaned a little, but do you REALLY think it's that? Plugs are still fine, 93 octane for fuel, 10W-30 for oil (car recommends 5W-40 or 30, but the dealership recommends 10W-30 due to warmer weather) Maintenance is all good, like I said, the dealership tried to check it out but just insisted that it was just a VR motor. I'll check everything again. Thanks.


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: (Bratwurst Rocket)*

The reason it might be the airfilter is because it could be getting the wrong airfuel mixture, or not engough air, but if you have a cold air you need to check all the hoses going into it!!! Also, I would try running a fuel injector cleaner, and oil is fine, but the unevel ground might have something to do with your oilpump pumping oil to all parts!!! For some reason I think the VR has a timing chain??? If so, that may be clattering around... But it may have a belt, or both like the 1.8T
BTW I am on AIM now, soo... Bboble180


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## JimH (Dec 22, 1999)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (veedublvr)*

Mine makes a clattering noise as well. It only happens after the car has been sitting for hours, like after work or overnight. Start the car, wait about 20-25 seconds and move off in first gear. Clatter, clatter. Shift to second about 2500, clatter clatter. Shift to third, clatter again. Not real loud, mind you, but I can sure hear it even with the sindows up. This goes on for about one minute, then it is gone. I had VW do the 40K timing belt check and told them. They saw nothing wrong. But, I did not leave the car overnight.


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: (Bboble)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bboble* »_The reason it might be the airfilter is because it could be getting the wrong airfuel mixture, or not engough air, but if you have a cold air you need to check all the hoses going into it!!! Also, I would try running a fuel injector cleaner, and oil is fine, but the unevel ground might have something to do with your oilpump pumping oil to all parts!!! For some reason I think the VR has a timing chain??? If so, that may be clattering around... But it may have a belt, or both like the 1.8T

Hmmm, that makes a lot of sense! Can't believe I didn't think about that. I'll diffenately clean it and either IM you or post again to see if it's fixed. Thanks!!


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (veedublvr)*

Does the sound go away above 4k rpm's?
Did you notice loss of Tq at low end rpm's?
If yes to both, change the shifter rod in the upper manifold, it's a common problem with the VR6, the shifter rod gets loose inside, once you hit 4k, it's open wide so it plays no effect.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=631564 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?&id=283593 
Notice the new rod (white) vinyl runners/rings are thicker.


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

Bboble, I cleaned the CAI filter and it's diffenately helped the problem. It's not completly gone, but it doesn't sound so much like a frickin' TDI now! Thanks!


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (ElectroMike)*

I didn't know the VR6 had variable intake runners... That is a common problem with the 2.8 litre 90 degree V6, but never heard of it being a problem with the 15 degree V6!!!
Glad to hear cleaning the filter helped... Also that narrows it down to being something intake, or valve related... I would try running some redline fuel injector cleaner(the full fuel system cleaner), and see if that helps... Sometimes carbon gets so bad it will stick around one the valves, and rub, and clank... Also with that fuel injector cleaner, give the car a nice Itailan Tuneup!!! Works wonders

Good luck, and glad to hear you are getting somewhere!!!


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bboble)*

Bboble, 
I took the car to the Dub dealership cuz the noise started to come back a little and something else. Well, it's a sort of light grinding sound when the car is in neutral and a very light rev is put on it. The dealership claims that because of the aftermarket air intake system (AEM) is pushing more air in, that the upper intake manifold valve to the shift rod is starting to give way a little bit. I'm wondering if I should write AEM about this cuz the dealership says, in writing, that I need a whole new upper intake manifold. Personally, I think it's bogus, but that's what the dealership says. I was looking at aftermarket intake manifolds by Schrick and whew, they are not cheap at all. A little confused about the whole deal. What do you think the best course of action is here? Thanks.


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (ElectroMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ElectroMike* »_Does the sound go away above 4k rpm's?
Did you notice loss of Tq at low end rpm's?
If yes to both, change the shifter rod in the upper manifold, it's a common problem with the VR6, the shifter rod gets loose inside, once you hit 4k, it's open wide so it plays no effect.


Turns out you were right. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bratwurst Rocket)*

Good job ElectroMike, This isn't even the VR6 forum, yet I am just using my knowledge of VW's, and Audi to assist... Anyways, I would say the dealer is full of ****... That is just an excuse... Is that the reason VW airfilters are think... No, the main reason is to keep them quiet... Do us VW'er want them quiet no, I would think I would hear of this more often, on several engines... The car can handle a little more air... It is like saying the car would do bad in really really cold weather, because the air is more dense, anyways... So that is just there excuse... They need to prove it was the AEM, before they go slashing at your warranty... BTW, is this a good dealer, or is it a new one for you???
Good luck, and keep us all posted!!!


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## ElectroMike (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bboble)*

Figure for a $60 part shipped (for the VR6 anyways), it's worth replacing it, since the Shfter Rod is stamped with the generic VW/Audi insignia, I would think the part is commonly used between multiple 6cyl engines.
When I called my local VW dealer and see if they would cover it under the powertrain warranty, they said NO, furthermore when I asked if they had stock on the part, the answer was: "Yes, we replace this part VERY OFTEN, so we keep them in stock"



















_Modified by ElectroMike at 9:08 AM 5-9-2003_


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (ElectroMike)*

good looking out. Parts on it's way. Tell you how it goes. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bratwurst Rocket)*

Well, the part came and guess what? Clatterings still there and with the same intensity. This really urks me but I guess it's all part of fixing things yourself huh? The problem looks like it may be turning a different direction, looks like tranny issues.







I'm getting a VW master mechanic to independently look at it. The reason I suspect tranny is because the clattering goes away when the clutch is pushed down. I mean, the sounds are GONE! Bearings? Mounts? lots of possibilities. But I've got 900 miles left on my warranty to you better believe i'm gonna get that fixed so i don't have to pay for tranny parts!







yikes. Anyway, I told ya i'd keep ya posted, so there it is...


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bratwurst Rocket)*

Oh I wish you said that in the beginning, You need a new throwout bearing, PERIOD!!!
That is actually good news, because now you have the problem found!!!


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bboble)*

Well, it turns out that it just started coming on more recently. Before it was just clattering at idle, but it's steadily gotten worse. But, yea, i was thinking the exact same thing after talking to some vee dub mechanics. It would explain a lot. Is that a common problem on the VR's? The car's going to a TRUSTED vee dub mechanic tomorrow morning so I can sigh a little bit of relief. I'll post and let you know how it goes though, definately. 800 miles left in warranty. Whew, cutting it close here. Hehe, let you know how it goes. Thanks Bboble!


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bboble)*

P.S. I took the shifter rod out and plugged the whole with my finger to see if it was the shifter rod clattering.... and it wasn't so I guess anybody who's experiencing this problem, just do the same and at least you'll know if it is or is not the shifter rod.


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bratwurst Rocket)*

Well, It is related to the Clutch... Either cracked flywheel, or Throwout Bearing... But cracked flywheel, or other clutch pieces break would be more or a rattle... Well good luck today, and let me know how it goes!!!


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bboble)*

Well, today marks the fifth time I've had the noise checked out and here are the conclusions:
I set up an appointment with THE veedub master technician, he listened to it and decided the car was fine. I then came in and was determined to make the car make the sound. Like I said, the car makes a slights metallic grinding noise from 600-1000 rpm's and a knocking at idle. My car, because it has a sense of humor, didn't want to make the noise. Har har.







but I drove it hard as hell around the block and alas, the noise came back. We changed the tranny oil and that helped a little bit, but the knocking was still there.







I talked the the VW mechanic for about 3 hours about the car and everything about the problem that I'd noticed, he insisted it was just a VR being a VR. I finally decided to agree with him after he showed me another VR with *almost* the same clattering. Anyway, why do I get the feeling that as soon as my warranty runs out, the tranny will be shot to hell. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Anyway, there you have it. Guess I gotta live with it until something gets worse. Bboble, any words of advice? Thanks.


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bratwurst Rocket)*

P.S. When I told the master mechanic about the the other dealership saying that it was the shifter rod in the upper intake manifold and how the dealership claimed that the whole upper intake manifold needed to be replaced, he laughed for about 5 minutes about it!


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bratwurst Rocket)*

I Think I am finnaly getting the real idea of the noise, and if it is the same noise that all VR's make, but worst... Like a chug, than it is your Intake barrel, I wish I new the VR is well as I knew the V6 90 degree engine... Well anyways, under the cover on the passat, a4 engine, there is a little plastic rod that you can push up, and down, right behind the coils... When that is the problem on the 90 degree engine, and the rod is pushed down then the noise goes away, and confirms that is the problem... But I have no idea whether the VR6 has this. I have no friends with one, so I couldn't go and look, I can ask some friends, and see if they know if it has one, or you can ask your mechanic, but if there is one, and when pushed down, the noise goes away... Then it is your variable intake barrel making noise...
Good Luck, and E.mail me, or IM me with any news at all... We need to get this resolved!!!


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bboble)*

BTW, if you cleaned your filter, and noticed improvement, it must be something with intake, not tranny!!!


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## EpicVW (Feb 10, 2000)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bboble)*

Please keep us updated on what you find! I'm having the same rattle problem, and would love to hear the resolution...


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## Bratwurst Rocket (May 2, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (passatrcr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passatrcr* »_Please keep us updated on what you find! I'm having the same rattle problem, and would love to hear the resolution...









Well, still trying to figure it out. I think it's just one of those things I'm gonna have to live with. Like I said, I've gotten it checked out like 5 times, and nothing edge wise. But check your shifter rod in the upper intake manifold and check your tranny oil levels. Also, clean your intake filter. That should give you at least an idea if it's any one of those. Good luck!


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bratwurst Rocket)*

Any luck, or are you over it???


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## DonnaGTI (Jan 19, 2003)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (veedublvr)*

Could it be your belt tensioner? It seems like a common failure, how many miles are on the car? On both of my cars the belt tensioner has been replaced.


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## EpicVW (Feb 10, 2000)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (DonnaGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DonnaGTI* »_Could it be your belt tensioner? It seems like a common failure, how many miles are on the car? On both of my cars the belt tensioner has been replaced.

Good call, but I'm not sure where the belt tensioner is. The sound on my car seems to be farther back, more to the center of the motor underneath the intake manifold...


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## mtulashie (May 11, 2000)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bratwurst Rocket)*

I think it's your throwout bearing. You said previously when you pressed the clutch it goes away. My wifes Passat does the same thing, metallic rattle noise and goes away when the clutch is pressed. The dealer did not replaced it because they said that was clutch releted and that is covered up to 12k for wear and tear items like the brake pads. I decided not to pay for it either because the clutch still works fine and secondly too much money. Maybe at 100K I will replace it.


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (mtulashie)*

You should fight that, a Throwout Bearing is not a wear & tear Item, it is part of the drivetrain!!!


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## EpicVW (Feb 10, 2000)

*Re: Excessive clattering coming from the center of the motor (Bboble)*

Well, I got my problem solved. I took it to the dealer and it was the waterpump that failed. The serp belt was pretty thrashed too (at 42k miles? Seems odd) so I had them replace that too. I'm only going to be charged $152 in parts for the serp belt, and the rest is covered by drivetrain warranty. Woohoo! Sunnyvale VW rocks!


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