# Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going.....



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

I want to get a CIS turbo thread going for anyone who's interested in doing a turbo setup on CIS. So far I have a Volvo 240T fuel distributor/air flow sensor plate and I still need a Audi 5000 WUR, vacuum retard canister for the distributor, turbo, exhaust manifold, FMIC, and lines n stuff. I'm also thinking about running water injection. Any info on the subject would be great.
Also, Does anyone recognize this picture? If so more pics please!











_Modified by EuroKid83 at 1:18 AM 4-27-2006_


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## Drizzle91 (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*

I would love to have CIS turbo thread!!!! Because lets face it...turboing a CIS is a boitch!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Im up for reading it!


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_PS: looks like they are running a control pressure bypass http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


What is the purpose of a control pressure bypass?


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Drizzle91)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Drizzle91* »_I would love to have CIS turbo thread!!!! Because lets face it...turboing a CIS is a boitch!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Im up for reading it!

As far as I know It's not all that hard. All you have to do is change a few things on the stock CIS and you too can have up to 170 turbocharged hp! 
Callaway Turbo Systems used the stock CIS on their turbo cars with only minor modifications. 


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 11:02 PM 3-6-2006_


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

Pete, is the Volvo WUR the same as the Audi WUR? How are you able to program your CIS? If you don't mind I would like to pick your brain on your setup some time. Is that cool?
Will a turbo and exhaust manifold from a VW turbo diesel work on a 8V?


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 12:50 AM 3-7-2006_


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## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

You may want to talk to "******" and Cabby-blitz(i think is his name).
****** is installing the Steve langford kit right now on his rabbit. Dont quote me but i think cabby sold his? 
From all the info that i have gathered Peter says that the stock (correctly running) CIS is good up to 170crank hp. I already had the basic understanding of how the CIS worked, but after speaking with Peter he was VERY helpful in aswering all my questions and i have a better grasp on CIS injection. 
******'s rabbit is in my garage and for the past 4 weekends i have been helping him with this project. I have a LIST of parts that is being used in the kit, some links to make life a little easier and within the week i would say, some idea of pipe work. 
Feel free to IM me if you have an questions.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_On my Cabby i used to have things plumbed that way. Currently i run a frequency valve bypass...


How do you activate it?


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

if im not mistaken I think when you run that fv bypass it makes it more like the euro cis non-lamda right? It makes it much more reliant on flow plate movement? I could be completely wrong peter will chime in im sure


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

Does anyone know if there are any stock intercoolers out there that will fit in front of the radiator in a Rabbit? The Volvo 240 Turbo intercooler will fit, but you would have to modify the core support to make it work. The dimentions I'm looking for are 30" X 12" X 3" (up to 4") I also looked at a Saab intercooler that would probably go in without modifications (or very little) but I'm not 100% on that yet. I want to take full advantage of the space I have to work with. Any suggestions?
Also, those of you who are already running a turbo or supercharger on CIS feel free to post lots of detailed pictures of your setup!!! 


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 12:44 AM 3-9-2006_


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## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2485213
Anything more then about 28 long, your going to have problems with the piping on each end. "******" has a 28x??x3 and i can tell you with a 3 inch core you have to tilt the Rad back. In tilting it back you run into problems with the Rad fan then getting the way. This is even more so if you have a 4 round headlight setup. 
Do yourself a favor and invest in an aftermarket "thin" fan. They can be had for about $30 on ebay. 10, maybe 12in. 
Move your battery to the trunk if you havent already. It makes life MUCH easier. Not just for a turbo project just to get that huge, heavy thing out of the way.


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## Metsu (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (SpnksVW)*

Is this thread going to be stickied, or made official bc I know I'll need this info, and digging through all forums for good info is hard. Having a good CIS turbo thread would be great.
Also whats the best prep work up to installing the turbo? Ie Compression tests ect


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Metsu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Metsu* »_Also whats the best prep work up to installing the turbo? Ie Compression tests ect

If your planing to turbo your existing engine (like me) I would check the following.
Ignition system:
Plugs
Wires
Cap and rotor
Ignition timing
Fuel Injection:
Control and system pressure
Idle mixture
Proper 02 sensor function
Engine:
Compression and/or leak down test
All belts and hoses
Valve adjustment
Check for any vacuum/fluid leaks
After ALL of that (and whatever I may have forgotten) I would say your good to go. Just make sure your engine is in a good state of tune before doing something like this. The engine in my '83 GTI runs great, no knocks, pings, or dings and it doesn't leak or use any fluids. I however will be pulling the engine and transmission out to replace a few gaskets and visually inspect the bottom end. I will also be porting the head. Hope this helps.


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## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_If your planing to turbo your existing engine (like me) I would check the following.

Add motor mounts to this list. If they have high miles on them, they need to be replaced before slapping a turbo on it. Nothing special, just a new replacment is good.
If you find a "steve langford" turbo kit, he has instructions posted to the web. You will need to rebend your shift linkage and cut the "lug" that sticks out of the back of the intake manifold. This makes room for the turbo, behind the motor. 
Let me see if i can get a link.....
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2355747
THats his kit and instructions are in the first post. 



_Modified by SpnksVW at 7:42 PM 3-9-2006_


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## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*

Let me clear a few things up for some of this thread......
First off, for anyone wanting to know ANYTHING about CIS Peter Tong is person to see for any questions. He has PROVEN without any doubt that some decent power can be accomplished with his twin-screw compressor on a CIS system. His knowledge goes way beyond what most people will ever even WANT to know about the fueling system. 
Peter Tong’s system is using oversized CIS injectors running way more then stock. A stock CIS system (he has informed me) is only about 200cc per injector. (correct me if im wrong Peter) stock injectors NEW can be had off the web for about 25$. 
Steve Langford’s turbo kit runs off of a simple design to enrich the system under boost by installing a 5th injector into the boost tubes. For most of the CIS users this would actually be a 6th injector. It is put into the system using a banjoe type fitting, bolted right on top of the fueling line for the 5th injector. It is controlled on a simple pressure switch running to a relay, then to an injector. When the switch senses pressure (switch can be adjusted at what to pop at) it then triggers the relay, which then opens the injector. His “brain” also includes a small adjustable pressure valve that controls when to release the wastegate. 
I have a Langford kit in my garage as we speak. It should have been on my friends car weeks ago. At this point, I can tell all of you im about ready to push it in the driveway and set fire to it. Please PM me if you want more details.


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## Cabby-Blitz (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (SpnksVW)*

Yea unfortunately I sold all of my parts. Everything was ready to go on when the motor quit on me. Sold everything and am currently getting rid of my car.

Though before I did that I posted a good picture of a Stock VW dizzy compared to the Volvo 240T unit, including where all the lines go on the Volvo unit. I no longer have it saved though, hopefully someone saved it.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_I have a special piggy back box with a built in map for both the ignition and the CIS frequency valve

I am interested in this.....Also I have a few questions if you don't mind. My fuel system will consist of the Volvo 240 Turbo fuel distributor/air flow sensor plate, WUR, and BOV/diverter valve. I will be running a turbo and would like to see as much as 200 HP at the wheels. Am I going to need a second frequency valve? In your last post you mentioned that the lambda fights what the WUR is tring to do under boost. What about switching the O2 controler into open-loop? This would prevent the O2 controler from taking fuel away rite? You could just trigger the O2 thermo switch with a hobbs switch, which would give you 80% duty cycle under boost. Do you think this would work? Also what's the part number for high flow CIS injectors and what vehicles did they come on?


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

I think you can get 200whp out of this thing without the 2nd frequency valve but in my case Im going to just get an upgraded 6th injector along with my wideband to monitor and see how it goes. Peter is definitely the all knowing but I dont want to just copy his setup I want to learn the hard way on my own for some of this stuff..
I did copy his ignition setup though and I love it the crane hi-6 with boost timing retard and a LX92 Crane coil with magnecor wires thing puts out some damn spark ask my friend who was knocked on the floor by a spark plug wire


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## BladesNet (Mar 29, 2001)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*

I love posting this photo of my buddy old setup. ABA 16v w/ Audi K26 @ 21psi (then got a GT30-37R @ 17psi and a huge T3/T4 @ ??psi afterwards due to the owner moving and having to drasticly change his driving habits (from 99% fast backroad driving to 99% town (99% 30mph speed limit))








The car was converted to digi-1 a few months ago.
It wasn't due to reliability, the car ran flawlessly on CIS-E for years, and even before when it was in a mk2. It was because of the 25L/100km average ..... 30-35+L/100km in city driving. Upto 60L/100km florred (around 4.5mpg)
Can't exactly say the fuel averages with digi-1 but it should be around 15L/100km.
As for parts, all VW OEM ones. All the info is on Mike's site (Callaway archives)
@ Peter: you ain't a god, but you and Mike are pretty much the reference when it comes to CIS stuff.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_ I want to learn the hard way on my own for some of this stuff..

As do I.....but I would rather know what's ahead of me before I slip up and brake something, I'm not trying to copy anyone.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*



Peter Tong said:


> I wish this thread was named CIS FI parts thread...as I think twin screw chargers are far superior on the street, and day to day driveability... why? Superior transient engine response... but I won't go there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Metsu (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*

EuroKid & Spnks VW thank you for giving me the "check list" I've asked a few times and gotten nowhere, so know I have a place to start.
Also Mr. Tong I see know reason why it must be turbo just cuz the name says so, feel free to add any info you want. I will be looking into the Sc systems aswell, as my cabby is a daily and having something different is always fun (esp if its better...?)
Keep the thread going this is good stuff.
Any links to previous threads that have good info should be added aswell.
Peace


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_I will still contend that the twin screw is going to be far better for a daily driver... with more available instantaneous torque...

I agree with you on the instant torque, that is a good thing however...I would probably end up braking something with that kind of power. One of the reasons I chose to go with a turbo is because you don't have that instant neck snapping torque. That way It's easier on the transmission and axles, clutch, etc. I guess what I want is passing power, 180 WHP of pure boosted whoop a$$.


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## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Metsu)*

i know everyone says it,but have u guys tried searching as there been loads and loads of CIS parts thread,aswell as 100's others,90% r rubbish but there been some very cool threads with all the info required.


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## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Peter Tong)*

Pete,have u ever used/tested the 10v audi turbo set up,i know the injectors r the same,but does the rest of the system flow more,always thought that would be a cheap easy set up to use,as the 10v is a 8v with a extra cyl and a turbo,always hear people using the k26 turbo and the exhaust and inlets,so wont the full injection be a cheap way to fuel it(even using the extra injector as a 5th),it would be just about plug and play which i think would be a cool junkyard set up as people call if,if u rob an entire car for turbo/exh/inlet/tb injection,dp,intercooler,some piping http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by rossmc1 at 8:59 PM 3-10-2006_


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## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (BladesNet)*

21psi on CIS E








what manifold/wastegate was he using any pics of them


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## BladesNet (Mar 29, 2001)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (rossmc1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rossmc1* »_21psi on CIS E








what manifold/wastegate was he using any pics of them


Look at the photo above, it's was the setup with the K26.
custom exhaust manifold, custom downpipe, audi WG, scirocco like manifold with 2L 8v TB, no BOV


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (BladesNet)*

I know what your saying about the old post because I used to go back there and read and re-read it figuring out one thing at a time but now its gone







my next step is like what you were saying peter im going to get either a pressure switch or hook the wot switch to trigger 80%Fv...but since ive never ventured here im not sure what kind of pressure switch to purchase where to purchase and if they are adjustable or preset to a certain pressure...the wot switch sounds good but just because I slam the gas down doesnt mean im going to have the psi built up and it might make me a bit rich before I spool up...ergh I really need to just get my wideband hooked up so I can stop guessing whats going on....


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## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

I've got a CIS turbo car. I've only had it running for a few months, not much of which I've been able to drive it due to the weather around here. I haven't had a lot of "tuning" time, nor have I had it on a dyno yet, so no numbers. If interested, you can have a look at it here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2292986


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## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_I know what your saying about the old post because I used to go back there and read and re-read it figuring out one thing at a time but now its gone







my next step is like what you were saying peter im going to get either a pressure switch or hook the wot switch to trigger 80%Fv...but since ive never ventured here im not sure what kind of pressure switch to purchase where to purchase and if they are adjustable or preset to a certain pressure...the wot switch sounds good but just because I slam the gas down doesnt mean im going to have the psi built up and it might make me a bit rich before I spool up...ergh I really need to just get my wideband hooked up so I can stop guessing whats going on....









I have some information that may want. PM.


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (SpnksVW)*

after re-reading that post I think for some reason I need the rpm switch and pressure switch wired in series to ground pin 7? or 11? of the ecu for 80% duty cycle


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84turboGTI* »_I've got a CIS turbo car. I've only had it running for a few months, not much of which I've been able to drive it due to the weather around here. I haven't had a lot of "tuning" time, nor have I had it on a dyno yet, so no numbers. If interested, you can have a look at it here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2292986

I know you said you got the turbo and exhaust manifold off a turbo diesel but what was it, a jetta? The reason I ask is because I have a opportunity to get the same thing for the dirt but I wasn't sure if it would work. How's the boost with that turbo?


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## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

It's a K-24 turbo and manifold from a mid to late 80's TD Jetta. There is some work required to the manifolds to get them to "mesh" properly, but relatively easy. The turbo is making 8 - 10 psi of boost by 1500 rpm, and seems to pull good to 6000 rpm (haven't taken it any higher than that). At 15 psi of boost, it shreads the tires in first and second. I've added a few more pictures to the post about my car if you want to see how the manifolds line up.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*

What was involved to make the two manifolds fit? Did you have to cut and/or weld the exhaust manifold at all? I know this guy with a late A1 turbo diesel Jetta, he lives just down the street from me. I could probably get the turbo and exhaust manifold pretty cheap. Is that a external wastegate?


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

A Ford Probe/Mazda MX6 fits well. Inlet and outlet both on the passenger side of the radiator.


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## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (BladesNet)*

I asked because the audi wastegate doesnt fit on the audi manifold with the 16v inlet,but if it is a DIY manifold then it maybe positioned different any pics


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## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

No cutting and welding involved. The ears on the manifolds needed to be ground down a little so that they would fit together. If you have both manifold there, you'll see what I mean. I'd check what type of turbo is on the A1 TD Jetta that he has. The K-24 is still on the small side for me, I plan to use a K-24/K-26 hybrid fairly soon here. I have a few other options, but they all involve building a manifold, and I just don't have time for that. As far as I know, the TD exhaust manifold has a stantard T3 flange on it, so any turbo with a T3 flange (any off of a Chrysler2.2L or 2.5L turbo from the 80's and 90's. Possibly even the Talon turbo, though I'm not sure about that one.) should bolt up to it.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*

/\
On the turbo diesel the turbo is angled up torwards the intake manifold, how did you get it to angle down like that? Did you just bolt it on the other way? See how it is in the picture.....











_Modified by EuroKid83 at 4:33 PM 3-12-2006_


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## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_/\
On the turbo diesel the turbo is angled up torwards the intake manifold, how did you get it to angle down like that? Did you just bolt it on the other way? 
_Modified by EuroKid83 at 4:33 PM 3-12-2006_

That's exactly right, just bolt the exhaust manifold on "upside down". When you flip the manaifold, you have to reclock the turbo so that the oil feed and return lines are correct, and the compressor outlet faces the dirrection that you want. All relatively easy stuff. If that is the engine that you are planning to use the manifold and turbo from, it should work fine. Looks like the K-24, which as I said is what I'm running right now. The have an adjustable wastegate on them which is really nice.


_Modified by 84turboGTI at 5:00 PM 3-12-2006_


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## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

Ok, so those of you looking to turbo a CIS car and if you have read all the info on fueling here are some things that I have found. 
As you well know the Volvo 240T fuel dizzy will help you out in the fueling, but as stated earlier the stock CIS will fuel well past 150HP. I focused on not messing too much with the CIS fuel system and more on just getting fuel enrichment from an 6th injector. I will have to admit now I “dissected” a Steve Langford fueler and these are some of the things I found. Langford uses a simple “5th” injector being run by a pressure switch connected to a relay. Its either Off with not enough pressure to trip the switch or ON and just flowing fuel. From what I have heard this is somewhat close to the way callaway runs their system…but a little more refined with a RPM lead? 
Injectors- 5th injectors can be found in a lot of the Volvos, early Mercedes and even in the early CIS VWs. For the purpose of getting better atomization I pulled one for my personal set-up from a Toyota. These fire out of both sides of the injector and are smaller in size. I do not know the flow rates of any of the injectors, so don’t bother asking. If you decide on a simple fueler for this setup note there are different OHMs resistance for each injector used. For the new people asking why use a 5th injector pulled form another car, its because of the way they mount. Rather then custom fabrication of a bracket to hold the injector, these normally just bolt down with 2 screws. This allows them to be mounted in the intake pipe/intake with little to no difficulty. $5 from the junk yard. (picture shows a Toyota injector) 
Banjo fittings- I didn’t do too much searching on banjo style fittings. I know a lot of the brake systems use this kind of fitting, but once again I didn’t search too hard on it. You can get a banjo fitting for fuel from the side of a CIS fuel dizzy in the junkyard. I think it’s the return line that has one in it. They are large is fuel delivery size, and im sure provide way more then the injector can handle. Some of the Volvo’s use banjo style fitting on the cars off the fuel distributor. If you find one of these in the junk yard your pretty much set. (in the picture it’s a Volvo banjo fitting on top of the injector.)
Injector plugs- If you are going to do it, you might as well do it right. While you are in the junk yard cutting up crap, pull some fuel injector plugs. They should charge you about a $1. Don’t half ass it and use solder less butt connectors. Makes it look like crap. These can be found on all types of cars. (plug shown in picture is from a Volvo) 
Pressure switch- These switches may be gotten some other place, but I ordered mine from Ebay just to see if its something special. They are being sold by “coolingmist” on ebay and are advertised as being adjustable from 1-25psi. They run $20 shipped on ebay new. The company that actually makes them is called World Magnetics model number PSF103. The website I found that actually sells them is http://www.designflexswitches.com. I didn’t call to see there price but I would assume its much less then what I paid. Incidentally this is the same switch used in the Langford fueler. (shown in picture)
Electronics- I’m in the process of building a controller for the injector because I don’t like the “on/off” method. Although I wanted to be slightly more advanced then the ON/OFF method I didn’t use a RPM lead. In other words, the fueler will have to be tuned at top RPM and just run rich at the lower boost. All parts can be purchased from http://www.digi-key.com . There is a minimum order of $25 thru this place. 
Housings- You can use whatever you would like to hold all this crap in your car. I for one, like to have anything I do look finished. You can get project boxes from your local radio shack, or even some hardware stores. I chose a nice aluminum box for about $8. You can get all sizes and shapes from digi-key but a little better priced at http://www.partsexpress.com . 
Relays- Relays can be had at any auto parts store. Most of the time I just use a fog light relay because of the dual 12v outs on it. Yes, that’s overkill for most being rated 30A. All of you looking for the relay plugs to make your items look “finished” you can order them from http://www.partsexpress.com for $1.50 each. They slide and interlock together in case you need more then one relay under the hood. Once again, I am one for having a clean look and don’t like the idea of having 5 wires with solder less but connectors hanging out of the bottom of the relay. 
Any questions please feel free to ask. Comments/corrections are welcome too.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (SpnksVW)*

/\ Great info! Lets keep it coming! Also I've been thinking of something.....How did the factory turbo CIS cars (Audi, Volvo, etc) provide extra fuel under boost? (besides the WUR and fuel distributor) I guess what I'm trying to say is why did they not use a secondary fuel controler and why is it we have to? can't we just use the same fuel injection without an problems?


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 12:23 PM 3-13-2006_


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## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

You can use the same fuel system as the stock CIS turbo cars. It's just somewhat limited. You won't be able to run the big numbers that most people are after. So far, all that I have is the Audi WUR and the Volvo 240T fuel dizzy. At 15 pounds of boost, it's more than sufficient. I won't be putting down no 300 WHP with it, but believe me, it's still plenty of fun. Really, if you're looking the big numbers are what you're after, you should be seriously looking to a programmable electronic fuel injection anyways. 
Beyond fuel control, you also need to consider ignotion timing control. Timing needs to be retarded under boost to avoid detination. There is a factory distributor that will do the job. I happened to find a great deal on an MSD Boost Timing Master, so that is the way that I am going. I'm sure that there is someone here that can tell you what distributor you need though.


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## VwSpeedDemon2 (Apr 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (All)*

BUmp!Great thread alot of much needed info. CIS guru's not to thread jack but i have a G60 thats goin CIS turbo (k26) how much horsepower could it support w/ mercedez fuel dizzy extra injectors, water injection? 


_Modified by VwSpeedDemon2 at 10:05 PM 3-13-2006_


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## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (VwSpeedDemon2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VwSpeedDemon2* »_BUmp!Great thread alot of much needed info. CIS guru's not to thread jack but i have a G60 thats goin CIS turbo (k26) how much horsepower could it support w/ mercedez fuel dizzy extra injectors, water injection? 

Never as much as what the stock G60 ECU with a SNS chip would put down. 
I would be willing to bet, the g60 ecu with harness and a chip would even be cheaper. 
But who am i? I am one that believes you should do as you want. We are all here because of a common love. I can support a CIS g60 car just as well as any other build.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84turboGTI* »_You can use the same fuel system as the stock CIS turbo cars. It's just somewhat limited. You won't be able to run the big numbers that most people are after. So far, all that I have is the Audi WUR and the Volvo 240T fuel dizzy. At 15 pounds of boost, it's more than sufficient. I won't be putting down no 300 WHP with it, but believe me, it's still plenty of fun. Really, if you're looking the big numbers are what you're after, you should be seriously looking to a programmable electronic fuel injection anyways. 
Beyond fuel control, you also need to consider ignotion timing control. Timing needs to be retarded under boost to avoid detination. There is a factory distributor that will do the job. I happened to find a great deal on an MSD Boost Timing Master, so that is the way that I am going. I'm sure that there is someone here that can tell you what distributor you need though.

I know the Volvo 240 Turbo FD will support up to 220 HP, which is what I'll be using. I would like to put anwhere from 160 - 180 HP to the ground with the Volvo FI. Do you/have you had any problems with the AFR leaning out at 15 PSI? As far as ignition timing goes, I'll be running a vacuum retard canister from a Audi 5000 Turbo.


----------



## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

So far no signs of anything leaning out. I haven't had it on a dyno with a wideband O2 sensor yet, but driving around everything seems to stay in check. I think that I'll put an oil cooler on it though, It breaks 200 degrees pretty easily. As high as 230 if I recall correctly(haven't driven the car in a couple of months due to weather), which I think is too much, though others have told me not to worry about it. I'm hoping that in the next month or so I'll be able to make a couple of runs on the dyno, I'll be able to say for sure then about the A/F ratios.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

For those of you who mite be curious, this is my recently revised CIS Turbo plan. So far this what I have.....
Volvo 240 Fuel distributor
Volvo 240 WUR
Volvo 240 BOV
Vacuum retard canister
Toyota Supra intercooler
I still need.....
A2 8V intake manifold
A2 8V throttle body
A2 8V throttle cable
A2 8V oil cooler
Turbo manifold
Turbocharger (it's gona be either a K-24 or T3/T4 depending on the exhaust manifold I end up with)
Intercooler plumbing
Turbo downpipe
With this set-up I would like to put around 160 - 180 HP to the ground, and be able to run up to 14 PSI. You think It's poss?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

Hey man ill have to put my .02 in about the timing control I really do recommend this Crane Hi-6s ignition box with the timing retard (boost sensitive with an msd map sensor) and the lx92 ignition coil...Its a bit of money about 450 total for all that stuff..but I absolutely love it and its not very complicated to install
you can kind of see it back in the back left hand side of the engine bay (firewall)








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84turboGTI* »_So far no signs of anything leaning out. I haven't had it on a dyno with a wideband O2 sensor yet, but driving around everything seems to stay in check. I think that I'll put an oil cooler on it though, It breaks 200 degrees pretty easily. As high as 230 if I recall correctly(haven't driven the car in a couple of months due to weather), which I think is too much, though others have told me not to worry about it. I'm hoping that in the next month or so I'll be able to make a couple of runs on the dyno, I'll be able to say for sure then about the A/F ratios.

Do you run synthetic oil? If not you should. I believe around 210 degrees (correct me if I'm wrong) is the ideal operating temperature for motor oil.


----------



## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

I think its closer to 200° but then again i could be wrong. My corrado on a good warm day with me beating the piss out of it would see 234. I was told as long as it didnt stay there it was fine. 
As for oil coolers..... Volvo 740 (i think) turbos have a nice one that measures about 4x10x2.5 with a nice metal duct thingy to direct air into it. (really eas to remove) The autos also have a tranny cooler that sits behind the rad, it measures about 7x5x1. Some of the older BMWs have a long narrow oil cooler up front that would fit really well in a MK1 behind the grill it measures about 3x17x2. The sandwich plates can be taken off a 240T and be used for VW's OR you can pay for the overpriced kit. 
Oil cooler from the junk yard cost about 12$ (i have two now)
The last sandwitch plate i got from ebay for $30 shipped. 
The one before that i paid i think 40 shipped for. (it was a while ago)
I know its been brought up before, but for all of you doing the front mount intercooler in front of the rad, do yourself a favor and invest in a "thin" fan now. They can be had for about 30$ on ebay.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (SpnksVW)*

damn, spnksVW has really become a badass when it comes to cis. you'd think he has been doing cis turbo crap forever. definatly one of the smarter people in this peice. if your going to burn my ride you should at least put some cat food under it so that you take a few of those bastard ass cats with it, or maybe some meat loaf and then you could catch something bigger and blonder.


----------



## SpnksVW (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_damn, spnksVW has really become a badass when it comes to cis. you'd think he has been doing cis turbo crap forever. definatly one of the smarter people in this peice. if your going to burn my ride you should at least put some cat food under it so that you take a few of those bastard ass cats with it, or maybe some meat loaf and then you could catch something bigger and blonder.

The information I have posted, is a matter of just searching for it, or doing the research. I have no problem sharing the simple information about what I have found out, or even the prices paid. 
I wouldn’t have bothered if it wasn’t for your car sitting in my garage. 
On the other hand I wouldn’t be thinking of turboing my rabbit if it weren’t for that.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (SpnksVW)*

i'm sure that when i finally get my **** finished you'll be doing something crazy to your rabbit. my rabbit is more like a guinea pig for your project.


----------



## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
Do you run synthetic oil? If not you should. I believe around 210 degrees (correct me if I'm wrong) is the ideal operating temperature for motor oil.

Castrol Syntec 10W30 on the next change. You're not supposed to use it to break in an engine because it lubricate too well, not allowing the rings to seat properly and such. The next chang is the 5000 km mark, which is enough of a break in. Of course, everyone has different opinions as far as break in times and when to switch to synthetic, this is what has wokred for me, so I will stick with it.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84turboGTI* »_Castrol Syntec 10W30 on the next change. You're not supposed to use it to break in an engine because it lubricate too well, not allowing the rings to seat properly and such.

I concur. Great job on your CIS turbo setup by the way.


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 4:24 PM 3-14-2006_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

Just got my Volvo 240 turbo FI stuff today! I got the FD/AFSP, WUR, BOV, and boost retard canister. I'm stoked! Oh I almost forgot.....turbo CIS is the shizzle BUMP.


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 3:49 PM 3-15-2006_


----------



## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_turbo CIS is the shizzle BUMP.

I agree. I think the best part is the look on peoples faces when they see what it is. One of the guys that works at the VW stealership here has an MK4 1.8T Golf. The car is fairly nice, and reasonably quick, but he thinks it's the best thing around. I took him out in My GTI when I first got it together, and it amazed him. Comments like "holy ****, it just keeps pulling" and "I can't believe you made it work that well with this old fuel system, that's awesome" all make it worth it.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*

I hear you man when I got my car running after 2 years of working on it I think my friend was more excited to ride in it then I was


----------



## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*

Dumbest thing is how the simple things amuse most people. I didn't put the blow off valve on right away, and people complained. Once it was hooked up, that's all that a lot of them would talk about "man that thing sounds cool"







. Forget the work that went into the engine or turbo setup that took years, the ten minutes that it took to mount and hook up the BOV is all that matters. You know, 'cause now it has a cool WHOOOSH sound when I let off of the throttle


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*

/\ LMAO


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

are you guys recirculating your bov?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*

i'm not. but then again i haven't finished it so i don't know what i'll end up doing. what are you doing?


----------



## 84turboGTI (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_are you guys recirculating your bov?

Nope, venting to the atmosphere. I think that recirculating may actually cause problems with CIS. Most BOV's that recirculate are plumbed back into the intake tube between the air filter and the turbo. With CIS, this may acturally slam the metering valve in the fuel distributor shut, causing the car to momentarily stall. If you were to recirculate it, it would have to run to the airbox. If the air box is still intact (not modified or cut open as mine is), this will make the BOV quieter if you are looking for the "stealth" aspect. This is just a theory though, My BOV isn't designed to recirculate, so I haven't been able to test it. If anyone else has experience with this, I'd love to know what the results are and whether I'm close or way out to lunch.


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (84turboGTI)*

BOV's on CIS equipped engines should have the air put back into the intake and not the atmosphere. You must put the air after the air flow meter and before the turbo. If you do not do this and blow it to the atmostphere then the engine will run rich and probably not very well during the decel. It may stall also. By putting it back to the engine the air flow meter is not being effected at all and therefore the fuel mixture will be normal. No matter what anyone says by doing any other way is not correct. I am not saying that it would not work and that you would not have problems I am just saying it is not correct.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Butcher)*

exactly im not having any of those problems right now (venting to the atmosphere) but I have heard from many people who know their stuff (butcher is one of them) that you *should* reroute it if you think about it, it makes sense its air that has been already metered by the flow plate and fuel for that air has already been sent to the injectors by dumping out the air you now have extra fuel which could definitely cause a rich condition. I already have tapped my callaway intake tube to return it but I havent found a hose that shrinks is about 1 1/2" on one side and about 1/2" on the other...but like I said ive not run into any real problems doing it but my a/f readings are a bit high on decel... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*

/\ Good to know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_BOV's on CIS equipped engines should have the air put back into the intake and not the atmosphere. You must put the air after the air flow meter and before the turbo.

If I'm not mistaken this is how the Volvo CIS turbo cars are set up. They recirculate the air from the BOV back into the intake. (after the AFSP before the turbo) This is how I'll be running my BOV on my car.


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 1:16 PM 3-17-2006_


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

I was also wondering how you guys are running the fuel line that goes to the FD. On the Volvo unit the fuel inlet is not the same as the stock GTI FD.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

hopefully when you buy or bought the volvo FD it came with the bolts in it...but I didnt have to buy or change any lines to make it work it actually all bolted up fairly easy...here this pic may help..or may not...still a good pic...


----------



## eldorado (Sep 29, 2001)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*

here's a nice clean cis turbo setup:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...49967


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*

I was looking for that picture actually. Are you using the stock 1.8 fuel line from the filter to the Volvo 240T FD? I don't see how that could work. You would have to bend the hell out of the stock fuel line to get it to hook up. Or am I just trippin?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

actually I did buy about 2 bucks worth of fuel hose from autozone and as long as you make it long enough it will have a gentle curve to it as long as it doesnt kink your fine... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*

Feel free to post pictures of your CIS turbo setup.


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

I did on page 2


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_I did on page 2









I need more!


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

ahh okay not trying to win any beauty contests...sersiously i had all wiring loomed and pretty but I had to rip it apart for troubleshooting now i just lack the motivation to fix it ...soon though 
















































this is the old callaway stuff I removed and have since sold...








any pics that you specifically want let me know ill be happy to wh0re!


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*

/\ Sweet.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

I have noticed some differences among the Volvo 240T fuel distributors and was wondering if anyone had any info about it. On some FD's I have seen little allen screw things next to the banjo bolts that go to the injectors and on others the allen screws aren't there. (like the one in the photo above) What's up with that? I was looking at some pictures of Peter Tong's cabby and his FD has the allen screws but the one I have doesn't. Is this something I should be concerned about? 
Also, does anyone have an info about the Steve Langford turbo kit?


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 2:02 AM 3-25-2006_


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

I cant remember what those are for exactly but it shouldnt affect the way your FD (I think)


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_I cant remember what those are for exactly but it shouldnt affect the way your FD (I think)









IIRC, they are for adjusting how much fuel flows through the FD to the injectors but I'm not 100% sure thats why I'm asking.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

The allen plugs on the top of the fuel distributor are plugs. Under the plug are another allen [IIRC they are 2mm or 2.5mm]. They are used to 'dial in' the flow rate to each injector. This is used so the fuel distributor could be balanced and all the ports will flow exactly the same. I have seen some that are below [at the mounting surface] the fuel dist. and these are much harder to balance since they are in the way of the air flow housing. I would recommend to stay away from them even if they look tempting since you will most likely mess things up more than make it better. If you have a fuel dist balance machine then by all means play around.


----------



## G.erman T.urbo I.njection (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

great idea for a CIS turbo
easy to do with time (lots of time) 
running 12 psi on cis system, volvo 240t fuel distro, audi warmup regulator and vacuum advance/retard canister thats it.
runs every day reliably, great power band, decent fuel economy, fast as all hell, best of all its all on a stock 1.8 8v 84 motor, and pushing over 170hp. 
before install we replaced all gaskets and seals, all new belts, and most of the sensors, motor runs strong and quiet other than a little solid lifter noise, no leaks, no detenation, no knocks or pings, no problems best of all absolutly no fuel or mechanical prolems..
email me with questions


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (G.erman T.urbo I.njection)*

thats basically how I am right now with no knocking or pinging running 12psi as well...I just ordered a wideband so I can take the guess work out of it. I do have one question though G.T.I do you have hte vac line hooked to the WUR? when I hooked up my vac line to it there was a bad stumbling when I went into boost better w/out...


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*

Ive got a question...Im playing with the idea of running either a split second or SDS Extra injector controller with 2 injectors before the t-body...what im wondering is should I run a fuel line straight from the fuel filter somehow split going to a FPR then to the extra injectors and the other split would go to the Volvo240 FD? Or should I use the outlet that the cold start valve and the callaway microfueler injector use now? I just want to make sure I get a good amount of pressure to both the stock Fuel dist and the extra injectors....any ideas help concerns?


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_The allen plugs on the top of the fuel distributor are plugs. Under the plug are another allen [IIRC they are 2mm or 2.5mm]. They are used to 'dial in' the flow rate to each injector. This is used so the fuel distributor could be balanced and all the ports will flow exactly the same. I have seen some that are below [at the mounting surface] the fuel dist. and these are much harder to balance since they are in the way of the air flow housing. I would recommend to stay away from them even if they look tempting since you will most likely mess things up more than make it better. If you have a fuel dist balance machine then by all means play around.

I just wanted to make a comment since we're talking about this. I can't imagine being able to significantly alter fuel flow to the injectors via the small set screw behind the plug. I'm not saying your wrong and I'm not saying I know everything about CIS but I do know the metering slits inside the FD are what ultimately control fuel flow. The set screw is a fine adjustment to balance fuel flow as you said. I can't see any reason to mess with them because I'm sure they were calibrated at the factory during the assembly process.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

Exactly what I was trying to say. They are to balance the flow out of each port. How much will it change? Do not ask me since I have only played with one a couple of times, One time it worked and the other time it did not. The problem I was having was the idle quality. A good scope with an individual cyl. rpm graph helped out a lot. I have access to the fuel dist balance tester but I have never used it [Flatrate does not pay that good and no customer wants to spend the money to test one out].


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Residentevol)*









Is that a ATP turbo exhaust manifold?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

Just wanted to post another note about the preperation involved with turbocharging a stock engine. I just did a cold compression test on my '83 GTI and it seems to be in great shape. 165 PSI @ 5 strokes on all cylinders. I haven't done a hot test yet but I plan to. I'm gona do a complete write-up when I'm finished with the turbo set-up so stay tuned!


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## JeTTa_Type_R (Apr 7, 2002)

I'm so glad I came upon this thread








I'm in the process of turbocharging my 84 rocco.
I have the following:
-Complete rebuilt JH engine with TD oil pan (oil return)
-TD exhaust manifold with k03 & external wastegate
-Volvo 240 turbo Fuel distributor
-Auto rabbit ignition canister (dual)
-Audi 5000t WUR
-Corrado G60 intercooler
Reading this thread helped a lot, especially that diagram for the Volvo FD.
*I just need enlightenment on the vaccum lines, for the ignition canister, WUR...are they simple lines going from the intake manifold towards these accessories ?*
Thanks !


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (JeTTa_Type_R)*

One of the best FI threads.....


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (rossmc1)*

Okay so i am planning on running a 1.8 16v Cis turbo as well.
So far what i have is a nice t3 48 trim turbo and a volvo fmic and boost lines are ready and i have exhaust manifold.
i was goign to go efi but i changed my mine... 
What parts are needed from other cars in order to do a turbo cis car??


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (JeTTa_Type_R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JeTTa_Type_R* »_I'm so glad I came upon this thread








I'm in the process of turbocharging my 84 rocco.
I have the following:
-Complete rebuilt JH engine with TD oil pan (oil return)
-TD exhaust manifold with k03 & external wastegate
-Volvo 240 turbo Fuel distributor
-Auto rabbit ignition canister (dual)
-Audi 5000t WUR
-Corrado G60 intercooler
Reading this thread helped a lot, especially that diagram for the Volvo FD.
*I just need enlightenment on the vaccum lines, for the ignition canister, WUR...are they simple lines going from the intake manifold towards these accessories ?*
Thanks !
















As far as the vacuum lines on the Audi 5000 WUR I believe the larger port is for boost.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (lemooresgliguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemooresgliguy* »_Okay so i am planning on running a 1.8 16v Cis turbo as well.
So far what i have is a nice t3 48 trim turbo and a volvo fmic and boost lines are ready and i have exhaust manifold.
i was goign to go efi but i changed my mine... 
What parts are needed from other cars in order to do a turbo cis car??

I'm glad you did, stick with CIS. What parts are you refering to? If It's FI stuff just get a Volvo 240T FD, WUR, and boost reated canister for the dizzy and your good to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

Cool looks like i need to find a 240t in the jUnkyard lol


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## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemooresgliguy* »_Cool looks like i need to find a 240t in the jUnkyard lol 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

here is all i have soo far








Not really needed i know but gets rid of my crappy CIS Box http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif if you guys want to know what car to get it out of... i'll let you know so you can go to tye JY i got mine for 5 bucks










_Modified by lemooresgliguy at 9:03 AM 4-4-2006_


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemooresgliguy* »_Not really needed i know but gets rid of my crappy CIS Box http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif if you guys want to know what car to get it out of... i'll let you know so you can go to tye JY i got mine for 5 bucks.

I'd like to know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

I got it out of a 1980 bmw 320i ... the cis fuel dist is weird on em , they are directly under the intake manifold... there are three 10 mm bolts holding it in 2 on the front and one under the cis box and then just take some wire cuters to the CLEAR PLASTIC (what was bmw thinking) fuel lines and cut all the lines and RIP that sucka out lol


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*

What fuel lines are you guys using on the Volvo 240T FD? My stock '83 GTI lines are to short. 


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 4:53 PM 4-7-2006_


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Get one more #1 cylinder injector line and that will be all you need. By have your 4 plus the extra #1 you will have all the lines you need and one left over.


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## JeTTa_Type_R (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: TURBO FIT*

I find my turbo has a little bit too much shaft play.
Browsing ebay, I came upon a couple of k03's.
My exhaust manifold is from a TD that came with a k03. The turbo bolts up to a triangle flange with 3 bolts. *Will a turbo from a 2001 Jetta fit on my manifold since I see it has a triangle flange ? Are they identical or different ? Or what other KKK turbo came with the 3 bolt flange ?*
My current turbo on my manifold:








The turbo that I wonder will fit or not:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...%3AIT
Thanks !


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## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

as long as the flange is the same yah.... LOOKs like it to me


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*

Today I started the dissassembly on my '83 GTI in preperation for the turbo. I was able to acomplish quite a bit and so far It's going good, except for the broken exhaust stud in the head.







I'm hoping by early summer I'll be driving it again with about twice the HP it had before.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Great read.....


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (hazw8st)*

just wanted to update to the question way above YES that is an ATP exhaust manifold.
I just got my LM1 kit in and im trying to learn as much as I can before I install it into the car..Other news car is still running flawlessly I turned the boost down to 10psi for daily driving because I want the wideband in there before I mess something up. I was wondering if any of you guys have tested your lamda test port for duty cycle at idle and if 50% is really ideal for turbo...I have a hard time getting my car to idle well under 1k rpms what are your guys idles like? I think it has something to do with my idle air/fuel adjustment...
anyways whats the updates on some of your guys setups? I just put a 1GB memory card into my digi cam so Im going to be taking some good videos just need to find a place to host them (any ideas?) doesnt have to be free would prefer but not needed


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Will a T3 turbo fit on a Callaway turbo exhaust manifold?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

no the callaway manifold uses a T4 flange http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Can a T3 bolt on a Callaway manifold? Yes, after it is drilled a tapped. Yes, you must port the manifold so it the same outlet shape as the T3. The T4 is more of a square hole and the T3 is more rectangle. I know because I have done it. Yes, it looks factory and everything aligns properly. It probably flows better than the T4 center exhaust housing but that is not proven just my opinion.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Butcher)*

Are you guy's using the stock head gasket on your turbo engines? Is there a better one out there? also what about spark plugs.....stick with stock ones?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

im using G60 corrado spark plugs they are factory for a forced induction 8v engine. As far as headgasket I found a few once a guy named turbotim had them but I bought a few and Im not sure if he has any left and ive had a hell of a time finding new ones..then again remember I use a 1.7l bottom end and my 1.8 head is modified to fit the 1.7..so finding 1.7 parts is a bit harder..


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

just get some stock headgaskets x2 gottta stack to lower comp


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*

you can do that id rather buy the pistons...


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemooresgliguy* »_just get some stock headgaskets x2 gottta stack to lower comp

Stock compression on the 1.8 8V GTI (JH) engine is 8.5:1 so im good there.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

wow thats one crappy engine to have 8.5:1 c/r


----------



## 91gl (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemooresgliguy* »_wow thats one crappy engine to have 8.5:1 c/r


that comment hurt me







the jh, considering it's time, i believe was the finest version of the 8v ever put out by vw. by no means is it a crappy engine. sure it doesnt have "God's Balls" or is it a narrow angled v6, but that baby's got spunk kid







dont underestimate them!!!
damn i should get some sleep


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemooresgliguy* »_wow thats one crappy engine to have 8.5:1 c/r


Explain this.....that's a pretty lame comment if you ask me. 8.5:1 is perfect for turbocharging, not ony that it was designed to be a daily driver not a race engine.


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

yeah the cr is perfect for boost.... but na is crap my 16v has a 10.5:1 cr


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*

I just got done ordering a hoard of parts for my turbo setup over the past few days. Here's what I got:
Turbonetics T3/T4 50 trim turbo
ATP turbo manifold
Oil feed and return fitings/lines
Ultra lite boost gauge
FMIC
a bunch of other stuff
The only thing I have left to do is fabricate the IC pipes and some other little things. I should be up and running again very soon. Does anyone know if a G60 TB will work on a A2 8V intake manifold?


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemooresgliguy* »_wow thats one crappy engine to have 8.5:1 c/r


Think about it guys/gals, 8.5 to 1 is crappy. I have seen many engines with 9.0 to 1 and 22 psi forced induction from the factory. 8.5 to 1 if very low even with a turbo. Some people forget to think we are talking CIS on this thread and they should remember that it is just that, and old out dated fuel system that had its day but is very out dated. 8.5 to 1 was very average in its day. Take a look at some of the old car mags and you will find that 0-60 was very fast at 10 secs. Now it would be a slug. Matter of fact I have a Toyota 4Runner Turbo with factory 7.5 to 1 with only 6 psi boost. Talk about a crappy engine! It is amazing what new technology is doing with increased compression ratios and increased boost levels. If you are thinking with today's technology then 8.5 is kinda crappy.
Now just so you know I have that same crappy JH 8.5 to 1 compression engine in my Cabriolet and it works fine, never runs bad, and never has left me stranded, crappy but reliable! I am not saying that todays technology is the best, try fixing some dead car on the side of the road on a 2005 car [won't happen!], I am just saying using todays ideas CIS is old and 8.5 is crappy [but I will take both any day].


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

im planning on running 9.5:1 cr for my turbo


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_
I am just saying using todays ideas CIS is old and 8.5 is crappy [but I will take both any day].

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (******)*

exactly...was he talking about my car? Because I have 8.5:1 pistons and my car runs strong as hell...may be "crappy" but its faster then most cars out on the road out here...


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

hmmm 8.5:1 compression is NOT good for NA thats what i am explaining to you.. i have the old 8.5:1 8v engine in my old GL and yeah AWESOME STRONG RUNNING ENGINE WITH GREAT TORQUE but its slow as hell compared to ... ne thing haha


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*

okay gotcha...well im definitely not N/A so no worries there


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Okay but what i was explaining was previously you stated that your engine stock was 8.5:1 CR ... i then returned with thats a crappy NA engine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Boosted yeah much better but na... NO BUENO!


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*

i think we got confused i didnt state my engine came that way somebody up there ^ did i honestly dont know what my stock compression is for a 1.7 8v i thought all 1.8 8v came as 10:1 but who knows...anyways back to the cis turbo thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Not all 8V's are 10:1 the ones that are have a knock sensor ignition. The '83 - '84 GTI's all have 8.5:1 CR.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

wow that seems really odd are you totally positive about that fact? the reason im asking is because I dont understand why more 83-84 8v's pistons or engines arent being used for turbo applications...


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_wow that seems really odd are you totally positive about that fact? the reason im asking is because I dont understand why more 83-84 8v's pistons or engines arent being used for turbo applications...

Yeah I'm not sure why more people arent using the STOCK 8V in their '83 - '84 GTI's either, and yes I'm sure about the compression. Everything up till 1985 is 8.5:1 (except diesel) The first 10:1 8V came in the '85 Golf GTI. There was never a high compression engine in any of the A1 cars.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
Yeah I'm not sure why more people arent using the STOCK 8V in their '83 - '84 GTI's either, and yes I'm sure about the compression. Everything up till 1985 is 8.5:1 (except diesel) The first 10:1 8V came in the '85 Golf GTI. There was never a high compression engine in any of the A1 cars. 

it's true.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (******)*

wow I learned something new thanks for the info...I had always been a Mk2 guy until I bought this rabbit 2 years ago and I had never come across that info..


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Glad I could help. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*everyone!*

this is a really helpfull thread thanks to everyone. i have a question. my motor is a 2.0 audi bottom end 1.8 head ported polished, titanium valve springs, raised comp. 11:1 ported and polished intake all matched. neurospeed throttle body, tt 276 cam, lightened flywheel, 92 gti close ratial trans, short shift. i want to turbo it and i have alot of compression, what would be my best bet? keep high comp. and run like 3psi, or i heard of eiptuning headgasket?? i really want a turbo and i dont want to get rid of my head because of all the work thats done on it. any suggestions? thanks!


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: everyone! (projectrabito)*

/\ Get low comp pistons. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: everyone! (EuroKid83)*

i don't want to pull the motor. im thinking eiptuning triple thick gasket with low boost should be fine


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Tony, 
Have you had a chance to dyno your CIS project? Anyone? I should have some new dyno charts coming soon...
230 whp on CIS or bust...
Peter T.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

No dyno yet peter i just got my LM-1 in the mail and im getting ready to install it...ive decided to just go with a 2nd exhaust bunghole








and run it only when I need to...as long as I hook it to make any changes I shouldnt need to run it constantly.....how do you run yours Peter?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

I have a second bunghole







on my Brospeed header on the collector section... where the NTK L1H1 sensor for Lambdaboy is permanently installed...


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

heh...cool man i wsa just not totally for the idea of using the lm1 as my a/f gauge/wideband controller/and bosch cis 02 sensor...plus the idea of waiting to warm it up all the time seems annoying..


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

My CIS OXS box did not like the simulated narrow band output from my Lambdaboy at all... at least not until the wideband sensor warmed up...
It also likes the non heated o2 sensors better than the heated variety... strange but true...


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

can anyone make me a parts list for my turbo project?


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (projectrabito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *projectrabito* »_can anyone make me a parts list for my turbo project? 

Well I'm assuming your gona be running CIS fuel injection so.....all you need is a Audi or Volvo WUR and a boost retard canister for the dizz and your good to go. Are you starting from scratch?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

he has a 2.0 bottom end and a 1.8 head and he already has an atp manifold and downpipe im trying to sort him out but if you guys have any suggestions post em up...


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

i would make sure to do something with the CR if your going to run an aba with a jh. you might want to double up on your gaskets.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (******)*

yeah I think hes buying the EIP gaskets for the 2l 8v..


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_yeah I think hes buying the EIP gaskets for the 2l 8v..

good times. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JeTTa_Type_R (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: (******)*

For those like me who have a TurboDiesel manifold that came with the k03, a k03sport won't bolt onto that manifold, the holes are off by 1-2 mm


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*woooooooooooooooosh*

ya im gonna put it together. and then see what i need. i just want to start off small and get it running. ill buy the eip gasket if i need it. i need a desiel oil pan or im gonna tap straight into the block. and eventually im gonna get better fuel enrichment.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (projectrabito)*

i would DEF do something about the compression to start off with...thats not something you want to just add in later you will just be so pissed off when you want to turn the boost up but cant due to compression being to high....


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (Residentevol)*

ya i know, ill run low boost and see how much compression i can go up to. it should haul ass with low boost right now! the motor is pretty built. i cant wait!! i need as many tips and suggestions i can get. thanks resident, thanks everyone. lets keep this thread up!


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (projectrabito)*


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (projectrabito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *projectrabito* »_ya i know, ill run low boost and see how much compression i can go up to. it should haul ass with low boost right now! the motor is pretty built. i cant wait!! i need as many tips and suggestions i can get. thanks resident, thanks everyone. lets keep this thread up!

it doesn't even seem worth it if your going to run low amounts of boost. if your affraid of blowing the built motor up take it out and put in somethingelse and boost the piss out of. save the built motor for something else.


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (******)*

what i'm saying is, im going to build the turbo kit, get it running and start off by using low boost and getting it tuned because right now the car runs good i dont want to go and pull the head off and run into more problems. so im gonna start off with low boost then get the gasket and better fuel enrichment after its running good.!


----------



## WOLFBURGSFINEST (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (projectrabito)*

It's only 100 bucks for the copper head gasket. you'll be glad that you did it to start with. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (WOLFBURGSFINEST)*

Does anyone run a boost/load sensitive WUR on their NA engines? If not then you should at least try it and see what happens. I just installed one on my NA '84 GTI and I was surprised that I could actually notice a difference! The throttle responce is better, mid range acceleration is better, and believe it or not my brakes work better! Don't ask me why or how but the pedal is more firm then before. My theory is the WUR is detecting a slight pressure drop and lowering the control pressure which bumps the idle up just enough to provide a little more vacuum. Some things I can explain and some I can't but I do know the time I spent to swap the WUR's was worth it. I think someone else should try this and see what they can find. Any takers?


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (EuroKid83)*

i can't wait for my turbo to be done. bump


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (projectrabito)*

does anyone have a problem with their turbo manifold gaskets burning up? do you run them or not? thanks


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (projectrabito)*

you need a turbo manifold gasket i havent had any issues so far with mine


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (Residentevol)*

when i need it im going to buy the eip tuning head gasket, its triple thick, looks like it will do the job. and im def. running a turbo mani gasket.!


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: woooooooooooooooosh (projectrabito)*

I've been working on my turbo project for about three weeks now but I've only just started taking pictures about a week ago. Sorry about the huge pictures but here they are.....
















































Again sorry about the huge pictures.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

lookin good man...


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Somewhere here on the vortex I read there was two different types of FD for the Volvo 240 Turbo vehicles, one that was good up to 220 HP and another that was good up to 260 HP. Does anyone know anything about this or is it BS?
Also...
Just wanted to make another comment about the turbo WUR I put on my NA '84 GTI. A while back I installed a ported intake manifold and Audi 5000 TB and noticed that I had lost a bit of off idle and low end torque, but gained a surprising amount of power in the upper mid range and top end. I figured this was because of the larger (ported) runners and TB which is fine but it still kinda bothered me at the same time. So then one day I decided to put a Volvo 240 Turbo WUR on my car and see what it would do. Well what it did was freakin sweet! I gained all my off idle and low end torque back and even more mid range than what it had before, and pulled strong all the way to redline. The car starts cold and idles much better, the brakes work better, throttle response is better, it also has a little more "throat" to it under full throttle acceleration. It worked so well for me that I'll never install a ported intake and big TB without a load sensitive WUR ever again. I'll bet it would work great combined with a big cam too. I know this is a FI thread but I had to let everyone know how well it worked for me in case someone else wants to try it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 9:33 PM 4-29-2006_


----------



## euroworks (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

If i were you guys i would just go digi 1. I have a 16vt running cis motronic and will be going digi1 as soon as i get a fuel rail. it's just much better for boost. But at the same time i guess i can't really complain because i never had any problems with my motor. My motor is completely on motronic no volvo stuff either


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re:*

can people post some pics of there engine bays with turbos? i need an idea of my piping...and i want to see some badass turbo kits! thanks


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (euroworks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *euroworks* »_If i were you guys i would just go digi 1. I have a 16vt running cis motronic and will be going digi1 as soon as i get a fuel rail. it's just much better for boost. But at the same time i guess i can't really complain because i never had any problems with my motor. My motor is completely on motronic no volvo stuff either









Why don't you start your own thread and not hijack this one. This is not comparing which is better. It is just about CIS and forced induction. There are many valid reasons for EFI but not on this thread.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (Butcher)*

yes this thread isnt debating the advantages of EFI over mechanical Fuel injection..actually for the most part I think most of us use CIS for the sheer wow factor...we actually got this 25 year old system to work for us...and some of us are putting out some decent power.....anyways back to the post...you asked for some pics of piping...
















I use the callaway mk1 intercooler mine is mounted on the drivers side under the bumper with a fin welded to it...


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

the pipe wokrs has been the hardest part for me. it's not like you can just buy a pipe kit, you have to either have a custome setup made for you or you have to do it your self. i'm useing a front mount infront of the ac so far. i 'm not done so i don't know if i'm going to be able to get the intercooler and the quad grill to play nice.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_
Why don't you start your own thread and not hijack this one. This is not comparing which is better. It is just about CIS and forced induction. There are many valid reasons for EFI but not on this thread.

Exactly.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

What size piping are you guys using? I can't decide what to do. I have a Langford kit with an Lancer Evo i/c. The Langford has a 2" pipe with the additional injector in, but that seems a ***** to place into the 3" throttle body rubber. The Evo i/c has 2.5" outlets, but I'm thinkin' that 2" will be easier to route than 2.5", but then is it going to be restricted...... Oh I dunno?
I am in a similar position to Eurokid83, though my block is still in the car. Oh and my attention to detail aint quite so fine








Is that a Teampsi mani you have Euro?
I am hoping to get mine installed as cheaply as possible, but without cutting major corners at the same time.








I am not planning to much power initially. I will be running stock CIS i.e. non Volvo for the time being. So I read that 170 is about the limit for that. That is more than enough if that is achieveable. Though 260 sounds way cool too!!
I have just ported / port matched my head, it runs a 'g' grind, which I guess can't be too lumpy for the turbo...? I have a neuspeed TB, slightly flowed inlet. Audi WUR, Audi Dizzy canister etc and a lot of work to do








I will be running it through the cheapest TT two box exhaust - though I may make it a one box later. Or do you think I should upgrade that? I already have it on the car.
I assume that you are using a 6th injector set up. What sort of injector do you use? Is it kicking in around 3lb of boost?
Anyway, I will keep my eye on this for sure! 
Chris


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*

/\ It's a ATP manifold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

i havent tested a stock cam yet but ive been using a G-grind cam with no issues


----------



## WOLFBURGSFINEST (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Heres a ? that has always pestered me and I can't find the answer to. What exactly is the differance between the Older Rabbit years Vacumn Advance Dizzy comparted to CIS basic Dizzy which also has vacumn advance on it. Look the same and as i understand work with the same concept. One thing that i've always wanted to know,


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (WOLFBURGSFINEST)*

As far as I know there are only two vacuum advance "canisters" that were used on the A1 cars, one is advance only and the other has advance and retard all in one. The dual port canister is the one you want if your going turbo on a CIS car. Oh you mean the distributor? well one is points and the other is electronic.


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re:*

should i run the pipe coming from the intercooler to the throttle body straight to the throttle body? or use something like the callaway set-up has. it looks like its a special adapter made to fit the throttle body and allow a pipe to clamp right up to it. could i use a g60 throttle body? any pics of yours?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Re: (projectrabito)*

Yes a G60 TB will work perfectly on a A1 8V intake manifold. You could also use the Callaway elbow with a stock TB as well. Either way will work it just comes down to what's available to you.


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (WOLFBURGSFINEST)*

VW used the vacuum adv and retard canister on vehicles with certain years of emission controls. One of the vacuum hoses was used to retard the timing at idle [I believe] and this helped with idle emissions. The other port is used to advance the timing for better part throttle power and emissions.
By using the vac/retard unit and only hooking up to the advance side of the canister then when it is under pressure it will force the canister to go to extend the arm and retard the timing, works well if that is what you are looking for to control knock issues. Really cheap without any electrical issues. Not the best way but hey, we are talking about CIS here. 
Like someone said earlier, Using a 25 year old system and making it work.


----------



## projectrabito (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: (Butcher)*

i have the g60 tb, but its not the same as my neurospeed. and the g60 has a boost valve on the bottom? and the wiring is different! ?? im thinking just stick with my neurospeed and get the adapter...easy peasy lemon squeezy


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Butcher)*

About the boost retard canister, there is a modification you can do to make the canister provide more retard under boost for even more protection from knock. You have to either grind the stop or remove it all together and make a new one that will allow it to retard more. Also does anyone know anything about high flow CIS injectors? I've heard Peter Tong talk about them a few times but I can't figure out what vehicles had em or where to buy them. (I'm hoping he'll chime in on this one)


----------



## The Nothing (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

i'm about to jump in here after a long vortex hiatus...
my current setup:
1.9L 8v (overbored JH)
VWMS Fuel Dizzy (ie: non-lamda)
my planned setup:
-T3/4
-keep the VWMS fueling and everything else as is
-EIC

this has been a plan for ages and i've still never gotten around to it. even played with the idea of an xflo head, and to be honest, i'm still thinking of going with it. I do know CIS injectors will seat in the xflo intake, and simple reinforcement rail like used on Audi 4k's should work to make sure they don't get blown out under boost. i'd probably even have a friend of mine build a custom log-style upper intake, just to be cool like that....
To be honest, the one thing that has always eluded me has been the boost retard. Would seem that topic has always been the most glossed over part...
I didn't think the dual-canister ignition dizzies had the Hall senders on them, and thought they ran points....
anyone have pictures on this one? years/models used?


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (The Nothing)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## The Nothing (Oct 9, 2001)

oh yeah
in regards to higher flowing CIS injectors
there are actually a lot of them out there (tons of cars ran CIS)
most commonly used are Mercedes and Ferrari injectors
Delorean guys use the Ferrari and Lambo injectors to get more fuel as well


----------



## slow_16v (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: (The Nothing)*

dnt forget the porsche injectors


----------



## The Nothing (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (lemooresgliguy)*

i thought the porsche injectors were the same... who knows...
http://specialtauto.com/delore....html
the link above had the delorean info, injectors, banjo bolts and fittings, all sorts of Bosch CIS goodies... and the Lambo injectors


----------



## The Nothing (Oct 9, 2001)

ah
just found Kim Hoff's site back up... whoa...
anyways.
for those also having ignition dizzy issues
"find a distributor vacuum canister that has two vacuum fittings on it. These can usually be found on older 1.7 liter engines. Leave the left connection open, and hook the right connector up to the existing vacuum hose. This will add a "boost timing retard" feature, meaning that the timing will retard whenever the car goes on boost. This will also allow you to advance your timing up a bit (to about 3 degrees BTDC), therefore improving overall operation of the engine. You don't have to replace the entire distributor - the vacuum canister is attached with two screws, and the actuator just hooks into the body of the distributor. "


----------



## WOLFBURGSFINEST (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: (The Nothing)*

So basically if im understanding correctly that my (86 CIS Ignition Dizzy) canister has one vac port that helps with either a Idle advance or some what an acceleration advance. Which interms will not work the same as a dual port vac advance canister off the older 1.7 which some how works differantly with the vac pressure (boost). Im curious to how they function differantly. Ill have to do some more research.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (The Nothing)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Nothing* »_i'm about to jump in here after a long vortex hiatus...
my current setup:
1.9L 8v (overbored JH)
VWMS Fuel Dizzy (ie: non-lamda)
my planned setup:
-T3/4
-keep the VWMS fueling and everything else as is
-EIC

this has been a plan for ages and i've still never gotten around to it. even played with the idea of an xflo head, and to be honest, i'm still thinking of going with it. I do know CIS injectors will seat in the xflo intake, and simple reinforcement rail like used on Audi 4k's should work to make sure they don't get blown out under boost. i'd probably even have a friend of mine build a custom log-style upper intake, just to be cool like that....
To be honest, the one thing that has always eluded me has been the boost retard. Would seem that topic has always been the most glossed over part...
I didn't think the dual-canister ignition dizzies had the Hall senders on them, and thought they ran points....
anyone have pictures on this one? years/models used?









I have also thought of going cross flow, that's gona come later. And yes only points distributors had the "boost retard" canister as far as Volkswagen's are concerned IIRC.


----------



## puebla (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (The Nothing)*


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (hazw8st)*

Here's something cool:








I'm gona get one of these soon. They say it lowers the air temperature 50 + degrees. Personally I think It's a great idea using liquid CO2 to cool the pressurized air from the turbo. I bet with one of these you could run without a intercooler. 


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 1:23 PM 5-5-2006_


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_I bet with one of these you could run without a intercooler.

But not very long. Probably OK for a drag racer but why on the street? Use an intercooler, much cheaper and can be used everyday, all day, and never run out of air [or water].


----------



## DasBaldGuy (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (BladesNet)*









Ohhh I see the problem...the motor is facing the wrong way.








Hit *Longitudinal* up, he knows a thing or 2 about sweet CIS Turbos.










_Modified by DasBaldGuy at 10:52 PM 5-5-2006_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_
But not very long. Probably OK for a drag racer but why on the street? Use an intercooler, much cheaper and can be used everyday, all day, and never run out of air [or water].

True, I'm definitely gona run a intercooler. The cry02 intake cooler and an intercooler would be the ultimate setup though.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

What do you guys make of the methanol (washer fluid) injection. I've seen a few people with it and it seems very economical i.e a gallon lasts for ages. I was close to going that way, but may do that later as boost increases


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_What do you guys make of the methanol (washer fluid) injection. I've seen a few people with it and it seems very economical i.e a gallon lasts for ages. I was close to going that way, but may do that later as boost increases










I feel ya there, I'm probably gona go with water injection myself. All I know is it works good and it runs on water, you can't go wrong. I've heard N/A motors can benefit from it as well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

So, I'm weighing up either an ATP mani or a http://www.pagparts.com for $40 less. Can you sway me to spend this extra $40 for the ATP - has anyone used a pagparts one? From what I've seen, ATP seem to have bad customer service and will prob send me the wrong thing








Though I would rather go with the brand I recognise.....








Oh and if anyone can post up some pics of boost pipe routings. I am using an i/c with outlets at either end of the rad.....


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_So, I'm weighing up either an ATP mani or a http://www.pagparts.com for $40 less. Can you sway me to spend this extra $40 for the ATP - has anyone used a pagparts one? From what I've seen, ATP seem to have bad customer service and will prob send me the wrong thing








Though I would rather go with the brand I recognise.....








Oh and if anyone can post up some pics of boost pipe routings. I am using an i/c with outlets at either end of the rad.....

I have a ATP manifold and I like it, the quality is very good. My experience with ATP was great, I got my parts only a few days after I ordered them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I was just looking at the pagparts 8V turbo manifold and it looks exactly like the ATP one.










_Modified by EuroKid83 at 2:43 PM 5-7-2006_


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
I was just looking at the pagparts 8V turbo manifold and it looks exactly like the ATP one.









_Modified by EuroKid83 at 2:43 PM 5-7-2006_

That's what I thought















But they don't offer the external wastegate option, not that I want it anyway!


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*

Just in case anyone wants to know, a Fox fuel line (from tank) works on the Volvo 240 Turbo FD (from filter to the FD) You may have to bend the one end of the line to fit but it does work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Pictures!


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Oh man, that is very inspiring. I wish my block was out. That is going to be one clean engine install, when you're done!
Keep the pics comin!


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (infront)*

Did you get it running yet?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (infront)*

Just got done test fitting my updated intake plumbing (PWR AWIC setup) today... the updated plumbing should be quite a bit more efficient than the older plumbing with less throttled volume.
The 944 turbo FMIC is being cut for use as a coolant reservoir/coolant cooler... can't wait to get that back to start wiring up the coolant pump and plumb coolant hoses...








Also fixed an exhaust restriction I've always had ever since installing the Brospeed A1 header by using a hand ported sandwich plate...








The dyno figures should be interesting I think... I'm expecting the CIS to lean out a little past 200 whp and then I'll have to eak a bit more fuel out of it yet again... the after that - eliminate the last major restriction on this 8v setup. 
Hope everyone else's projects are also coming along... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by Peter Tong at 12:07 AM 5-21-2006_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Pete,
Are you gona port that A1 intake manifold? It's been a while since you last made a post in here. Nice work! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

This one's ported about 5" up the runners/match ported to the Eurospec head and has been ground out for the larger throttle bodies... its been about 7 years since I ran this A1 intake...so its kind of strange to see it on there. I'm just thankful that I've kept it around all these years... I am curious to see how the torque curve differs with the changes...


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_Did you get it running yet?









Not yet, I still need a few more parts before I can put the engine back in. It's gona be on the street soon though.....(I can't freakin wait)


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

More pictures! The rubber IC hose is from a Toyota Supra, turns out it works pretty good on VW's as well. 
























I didn't wana drill any holes to mount the boost gauge so I used an existing one...












_Modified by EuroKid83 at 10:47 PM 6-4-2006_


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Looks great








What is the dia of the intake on the compressor side. I assume that it is metric. I bought a stack of silicone hoses, but none fit. It's gotta be metric or down to a 1/4". I've not looked yet, but I don't recall seeing any silicone pipes down to the 1/4"..... Maybe it's obvious, I haven't looked at it for a couple of days, I just fremeber being peed that nothing fitted immediately.
I'll try and post some pics of my contraption/'project'







I tried elsewhere, but my photobucket acct doesn't like me for some reason http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
I never even thought of using a later (oppposite side) intake mani. That would work great for me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'll be looking into that one....What TB is that, it looks to have a pipe going donwards as well as the normal intake. What's that all about, or is it an optical illusion?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_I never even thought of using a later (oppposite side) intake mani. That would work great for me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'll be looking into that one....What TB is that, it looks to have a pipe going donwards as well as the normal intake. What's that all about, or is it an optical illusion?

The A2 8V intake manifolds have slightly larger/longer runners so you get a little more torque than the early CIS manifolds, I always wanted to run one and it just so happens It's gona work perfectly for my application. The TB is a Corrado G60 piece and no your not seeing things, that "pipe" on the bottom is the bypass valve. At first I wasn't gona use the Corrado TB but I was able to make it work by removing the throttle cable thing (for lack of a better word) on the TB and rotating it 180 degrees. The turbo inlet is 2 3/4". http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The rubber hose that's on the TB and turbo inlet are from a '86 - '92 Toyota Supra as well as the intercooler. 



_Modified by EuroKid83 at 12:30 PM 6-8-2006_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Bump.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

We just got my buddies turbo cabriolet going. Its nuts fast, faster than his corrado vr6. Ill get some pics up, its super clean.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*

I'd like to see it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Nothing real new to report for me ive been out of hte country a few times and in the mean time trying to paint the rabbit in my garage...I should have my wideband hooked up though when Im done with the paint so I will post up some graphs hopefully soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif here is a pic of the car as it sits right now 
























what it used to look like


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Lookin good, keep us posted. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DTDSasquatch (Aug 26, 2004)

Is it necessary (or desirable) to retrofit the knock sensor ignition from a later model, or is the vacuum/retard canister sufficient for retarding the timing?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (DTDSasquatch)*

well I didnt trust it..Im sure a knock sensor system would be better but I use the crane Hi-6 with boost senstive timing retard I love it its a bit of money but welllll worth it..


----------



## DTDSasquatch (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_well I didnt trust it..Im sure a knock sensor system would be better but I use the crane Hi-6 with boost senstive timing retard I love it its a bit of money but welllll worth it..

Yeah, I read that from one of your previous posts. Very cool.
I'm just gathering ideas, and I don't think I've ever seen any mention of the knock sensor ignition used for a CIS turbo setup.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (DTDSasquatch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DTDSasquatch* »_Is it necessary (or desirable) to retrofit the knock sensor ignition from a later model, or is the vacuum/retard canister sufficient for retarding the timing?

The knock sensor ignition would be a good upgrade for any CIS turbo project, I personally will be using the boost retard canister. If It's good enough for a factory CIS turbo vehicle then It's good enough for me. I may combine the boost canister and knock sensor ignition if the canister isn't enough though. I also just learned of another factory type knock controller that was used on early turbo Saab's. Instead of retarding ignition timing it turns boost pressure down if the motor starts to ping.


----------



## DTDSasquatch (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_I may combine the boost canister and knock sensor ignition if the canister isn't enough though.

This is what I anticipated doing, but as I said, I hadn't seen it mentioned before.

_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_I also just learned of another factory type knock controller that was used on early turbo Saab's. Instead of retarding ignition timing it turns boost pressure down if the motor starts to ping. 

That sounds interesting, but it doesn't sound like a very viable option to me. Besides causing an uber-rich condition, and I'm guessing you'd lose more horsepower by bleeding boost than you would by retarding the ignition.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (DTDSasquatch)*

I run a knock box ignition on the twin screw Cabby... with it firing a Crane Hi-6 with pretty good results... its a good system...


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Peter,
I know you run a frequency valve bypass on your cabby to get more fuel under boost, can you explain how it works? Lately I've been thinking of ways to manipulate the O2 sensor signal to "trick" the brain to deliver more fuel without using a bypass type setup. I've been doing a lot of research on the K-Jetronic and I know it can be done but I'm unsure as to how I should go about doing it. I know the O2 sensor monitors the excess air (oxygen) in the exhaust which then sends a signal to the FV controller (brain) which then sends a signal to the FV. Im thinking of making some kind of "piggy back" type device that either goes between the O2 sensor and brain or between the brain and FV. Basically I need your opinion as to whether I should spend the time on something like this or not. Any suggestions?


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (DTDSasquatch)*

Saabs system does work and works OK. There are some issues but check the net out and you will find ways to resolve them. 
As for causing a rich condition, I do not understand what you are talking about. I sense that you do not truely understand what the APC system does. The way is 'bleeds the boost is by using the wastegate. The fuel distributor is not effected in any way.
As for a loss of power which is better, think of it this way, Retarding the ign. timing is not a very efficient way of running an engine. So the most efficient way to get the most power out of the same gas would be lowering the boost to reduce pinging. I am no rocket scientist just another butcher [hack] that works on cars. Lots of schooling at hard knocks and a little bit of common sense [not much though].


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_As for causing a rich condition, I do not understand what you are talking about. I sense that you do not truely understand what the APC system does.

I don't recall saying anything about the Saab APC system in this thread. I do however agree with you on removing boost rather than ignition timing to control ping.


----------



## DTDSasquatch (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_As for causing a rich condition, I do not understand what you are talking about. I sense that you do not truely understand what the APC system does. The way is 'bleeds the boost is by using the wastegate.








Oops, I was tired when I read that. For some reason, I got the impression that it bled boost from the charge pipe via the diverter valve. 
That does sound like a decent solution then. I'll have to do some reading up on that.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (DTDSasquatch)*

So how's your CIS projects going? You up and running yet Peter?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

unfortunately fellas im out of the game (CIS) But I have passed on some good stuff so there should be some new posts in here by a guy (best84rabbit) hopefully it all works out for him as well as it worked for me...


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Currently fabricating a custom aluminum reservoir for my AWIC setup... custom intake is going on tonight...


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_unfortunately fellas im out of the game (CIS) But I have passed on some good stuff so there should be some new posts in here by a guy (best84rabbit) hopefully it all works out for him as well as it worked for me...

It's all good man, feel free to post some pictures of your new setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Currently fabricating a custom aluminum reservoir for my AWIC setup... custom intake is going on tonight...

Any pictures?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

No pics now - I do plan on posting some after I dyno the setup...


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Here is a pic of the sandwich plate I'll be using for my cold start valve...








and another view:








and what will fit over the spacer:








Still need to mill the spacer down a bit... and make a proper unused gasket for the CSV... but I think this should work well...



_Modified by Peter Tong at 12:16 AM 8-3-2006_


----------



## Volkswoot (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

will any parts from an audi 200 turbo work ? a buddy of mine has one that had some massive vacume leaks and electric probs so he let me have a bunch of parts from it.. i got the 5 cyl cis fuel setup (complete airbox w/ all lines and such) the WUR the FMIC some of the boost tubes and the electric water pump that was on it whats that used for ?
anything else i should grab ??


----------



## Volkswoot (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (enebo8u)*

bump


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

I can't wait to see pictures of the finished product. Lookin great so far.


----------



## rockergraham (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Is that 240t volvo distributor just a six cylinder distributor with two holes plugged? Would it be possible to use a regular six cylinder distributor from a more common volvo and plug two holes, then tune it? 
Also, does anybody know what the capacity of these CIS systems are in terms of volume (cc/hr or lbs/hr)?


----------



## rockergraham (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (rockergraham)*

oh yeah, one other quick question:
do the CIS units need to be mounted upright, or can they be flipped over/ turned on their sides?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (rockergraham)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rockergraham* »_oh yeah, one other quick question:
do the CIS units need to be mounted upright, or can they be flipped over/ turned on their sides? 

The AFSP can only be run upright, any other way simply will not work. As far as fuel flow I can't tell you but Mr. Tong probably knows the answer to that.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

As I'm sure you already know a turbocharger puts a lot of heat into the oil, so what are you using to keep it cool? I have a stock oil/water heat exchanger I'm gona run to see how well it works. On my '84 GTI I have a euro oil cooler setup and it seems to work quite well. If the oil/water cooler doesn't cut it I'm gona switch to a thermo sandwich plate and Setrab plate oil cooler. What are your thoughts?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Its possible for CIS to be used in various orientations... take this Mooney Porsche PFM 3200 engine as an example...








I don't know if Porsche had to modify the CIS unit or not for the aircraft application...


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Touche.


----------



## bradlesp (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

hey i have been putting together a turbo kit and i have a 240t dizzy but i do not have an audi WUR or vacuum retard. should i pick those up before i dive into my project? also is it necessary to have a wideband o2 to get the air/fuel running perfectly?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (bradlesp)*

No wideband absolutely necessary... just use the boost sensitive WUR... and test flow your injectors to make sure flow across the board is even... make sure voltage at the pump is up near 14v under boost and keep whp under about 170...
Hope that helps...
Peter T.


----------



## bradlesp (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

yeah that helps a lot, on the stock JH how much boost would your reccomend running to get 170whp approx


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (bradlesp)*

I'd say 14 - 16 PSI.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_I'd say 14 - 16 PSI.
 that seems like too much boost for 170 hp man, but thats just me. i swear i saw somewhere around here where someone was getting that kind of hp with like 10lbs. i could be wrong though.


----------



## bradlesp (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: (******)*

i was also thinking around the 10 psi neighborhood but it doest matter now because i sold my gti so if anyone wants a turbo setup for 8v let me know!


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_ that seems like too much boost for 170 hp man, but thats just me. i swear i saw somewhere around here where someone was getting that kind of hp with like 10lbs. i could be wrong though.

Yeah I think you may be rite. 12 lbs sounds better.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

either way wether it's 10 or 14 or 12 it's in that area. i'm allmost finished with my turbo 8v. finished up all the intercooler pipe work saturday when i realized that needed 1 more piece of silicone. that sucks, but it should be finished up this weekend, well as far as starting it and tring to tune it anyway. i'm excited damn it, it's taken me forever to get this bastard going. it's allways something that keeps me from working on it.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (******)*

Post some pictures man! It's taken me a while to get as far as I am now and I still have to put the engine back in, fabricate IC piping, wiring, and tune it. It's all good though, It's gona be worth the wait when I'm done. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

the intercooler pipe work is whats taken me forever. it's not like they make kits for a turbo rabbit you know. depending on what kind of intercooler you are going to run i might be able to help you with some the pipe work by showing you how i did mine. it's not pretty right now, but it's functional, and i'll take function over fashion any day.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (******)*

Time to throw up a few pics (if it works - let me know). Oh man, how the flash loves to highlight my rust issues.....!
























Pipe routing was a definite pain. I ended up buying one of the alloy pipe kits off eBay which came with a few silicones and gave me the 'harlequin' look under the hood too! (I would have had all black if I hadn't cheaped out!) I also used some mandrel exh pipe so I could braze on the CSV & BOV etc. This is all 2.5" which I would do in 2" if I was going to do it again. Ahh well.
The downpipe is fun too.....








I struggled to fit the canister to the dizzy - in fact I gave up - didn't read the Bentley mind








Need a 240 FD please!
Let me know if the pics come out, had some trouble with that


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (infront)*

i also use a front mount intercooler like that so it fits infront of the rad, but mine makes the rad sit out off of the original prongs so now i'm having to make brakets and crap so that it's not just floating around. 
when i first started doing pipework we started with pvc for a mock up to have someone bend me custom pipes, but everyone around here said that they couldn't bend from the pvc we made so i was again looking from metal pipe work that someone was selling, and i got frick'n lucky one day and found a guy seeling his 8v intercooler pipe work. the only difference is that he used an audi 5k intercooler and i wasn't so i had to mod the way it fit in the car.
i'll take some more pics this weekend when i get a chance to work on it so you can see how ugly it all is.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (******)*

I extended my rad mounts too. Used some 14 gauge flat bar and some self tappers for the bottom - surprisingly solid! And brazed the upper ones to angle iron (made out of box section) - solid too! I'll find a pic of how I've done it, but you can just about see how I've done it. 
I had to kick my rad towards the passenger side about an inch or so, so it may look a little different. I've had to extend my hoses to suit...
I have deleted my aux air valve from around the back of the inlet (it wasn't working anyway), so I've bodged the vac pipes etc. It looks surprisingly stock


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (infront)*

the way that you have your intercooler mounted is how i wanted to do mine, but i ended up mounting mine on the top half of the rad support instead of the bottom so now i have to change out the early rad to a later rad with an overflow. the intercooler pipe work hits the fill cap on the early rad thats why i had to change it. no big deal.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (infront)*

nice work! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Got to encourage my fellow CIS diehards


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*

Lookin good man, pictures came out great.


----------



## rockergraham (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Peter,
I took another look at the CIS distributor and it uses a weight to hold down the paddle, in other words, it wont work upside down... but i'm still trying to figure out what kindof flow numbers the stock injectors and the stock distributor are capable of.. perhaps i'll have to emperically determine these numbers myself.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (rockergraham)*

the stock injectors can handle quite abit really, it's the fuel dizzy that you have to worry about. the stock fuel dizzy was only made to handle about 180hp after that it starts to get lean thats why everyone pots for the volvo 240t dizzy, it's good for 220 i think.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (rockergraham)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rockergraham* »_Peter,
I took another look at the CIS distributor and it uses a weight to hold down the paddle, in other words, it wont work upside down... but i'm still trying to figure out what kindof flow numbers the stock injectors and the stock distributor are capable of.. perhaps i'll have to emperically determine these numbers myself.

I'd highly recommending test flowing... I don't have #s for the stock FD and stock injector combo anymore unfortunately... my existing setup flows around 320-340cc/min per injector...


----------



## kimosullivan (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_I'd highly recommending test flowing... I don't have #s for the stock FD and stock injector combo anymore unfortunately... my existing setup flows around 320-340cc/min per injector...

Now you make me want to put together a test rig to check out the fuel distributor I've got. Let's see, what will I need?
Fuel Distributor? Check!
Fuel Injectors? Check!
Fuel Line? Check!
Damper? Check!
WUR? Check!
Fuel Filter? Check!
Stop Watch? Check!
Graduated Cylinder? Check!
Mineral Spirits? Check!
Fuel Pump? Still on loan to the guys building a jet engine!








Give me a break down on how you tested the flow rate. In the car or out? We need details!


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (kimosullivan)*

You have everything... and I know you've test flowed before


----------



## kimosullivan (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Yeah, but I only flow tested the injectors alone. I really need to recreate that experiment with more of each type of injector and more trials on each individual injector to rule out any bad parts or tests.
I was thinking about testing the fuel dist to see how much it would put out at various sensor plate levels. This of course would lead to the final test, flow benching the sensor plate/feed cone to find the height versus flow relationship. I wonder how many CFM I can get my shop vac to produce?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (kimosullivan)*

does anyone have a pic of how they hook up the vaccum hoese on the intake manifold. i need to put in my boost guage, but i don't know where the best place is.
also, wouldn't i have to change the intake manifold vaccum lines anyway because they go into the breather on the valve cover and then go out to the fuel box. wouldn't that cause a boost leak? i
know it probably isn't explained right, but look at the stock set up for the intake vacum hoses and tell me how i need to change them to work on boost.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (******)*

I got mine running properly today








I'm only running at 5 psi, but I reckon on over 100whp as it is. I'm running a Langford 'esque system i.e Langford micro fueler incl 'brain'(!)
I found a few problems along the way, but it all seems to be fine now. My first test drive showed over 10 psi and stacks of pinging, checked, tried again....same again, I managed to blow off the i'c pipe, the one after the microfueler (scary thought!) I did have these crappy ebay hose clamps on that junction. It kind of worked out well because all the pipes settled themselves into their ideal positions and I then spent a while tightening them all back up (some surprisingly slack!).
I don't know how the 10+psi could have happened as Mr Langfords instructions say that these are 'factory set'. The microfueler was supposed to kick in a 3 psi, it wasn't kicking in at 10!! If anyone else has this set up, turn the 2mm allen key counter clockwise to lower the threshold








Regarding boost gauge piping, mine is connected to the intake manifold as well as the BOV and WUR, I will try and get a pic of my set up. I have deleted a load of the carbon canisters, aux air valve and that valve that would be attached to the rubber bellows on the TB







It certainly cuts down on leaks, I had big issues with air leaks before, but now I am 99% sure that it is all air tight - more worried about the IC pipes...
Assuming I get this running perfectly, how much boost could I run? It feels very reliable at 5 psi. It sounds like a new engine right now, I love it again! Just need to get rid of the annoying exhaust rattle on the rear axle....
More to come


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (infront)*

Please just ditch the stock CIS and install the Volvo unit... you'll like yourself better for doing it


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

I'm on that one....


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Please just ditch the stock CIS and install the Volvo unit... you'll like yourself better for doing it









I agree. I wouldn't even consider using the stock FD.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

On my chariot 5 psi is the max for the stock FD








Someone supply me with a Volvo one please! Finders commision of a whole green dollar right here


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (infront)*

could someone take a picture of how they have their intake vaccum hoses going. the way mine is set up stock the big vaccu port on the left runs into the valve cover breather and then they both dump into the fuel box, but that would cause a boost leak i would think so i have to do something different.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (******)*

Just block off the smaller hose going to the intake manifold and valve cover and leave the big hose going to the air box.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (projectrabito)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2787169


----------



## imurni (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

I'm 10:1 CR right now and need to lower this to turbo my CIS proj.
Would an EIP low-compression gasket suffice?
Or
Just get new pistons- Fox or G60's


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (imurni)*

you could double stack g60 gaskets


----------



## imurni (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (******)*

Do G60 pistons work well on a CIS turbo set-up?
I think I'll pass on the stacking route. 
The eip gasket is $ but I'd like it done right the 1st time.


_Modified by imurni at 10:57 AM 8-25-2006_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (imurni)*

I'm sure the G60 pistons will work fine, stock CR on a G60 is 8:1 IIRC.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Bump it up.


----------



## kimosullivan (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_You have everything... and I know you've test flowed before























Well, again last night with the help of a friend, we flow tested various CIS injectors versus supply pressure to determine flow. Four each of Bosch part numbers ending 007, 023, and 054 and one each of 015 and 047. The 047 is a brass coarse thread Volvo injector, and the 054s are brass fine thread MercedesBenz injectors. All the rest are steel coarse thread VW/Audi parts. The 007s and 015s came from a VW Fox and Scirrocco, but I can't recall which is which. The remainders were donated to the cause, but I can't remember who.
The preliminary results are this:
007 and 023 had the most linear response
054 had the steepest slope and highest opening pressure, i.e. flow increased more with pressure than other injectors
007 flowed more fuel than any other injectors at all pressures.
Keep in mind that these are used injectors with unknown histories. I'll post more info when I have more time.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (kimosullivan)*

so what your saying is that the stock injectors on a cis vw are good, adn there is no reason to change them out for volvo or merc injectors.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (******)*

Hey guys,
So I took the beast out today for another play. I have realised that initially I'm getting 5psi (low I know, but I'm just beginning) at say 3000-3500 rpm, but I noticed that at say 5000 -5500 the boost dwindles away to 2-3 psi. 
Any ideas? Some sort of leak?? If I slow down and do it again, I get 5 psi again, but agin it dissipates http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Cheers


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (infront)*

Air leaks and/or wastegate sticking open. Guaranteed....


----------



## golfman1966 (Aug 18, 2006)

Boy I'm glad I found this thread, just so I know that there are other people out there working with CIS turbocharging. I've had my system up and running reliably for over six years now using stock unmodified CIS, so I can vouch for what the system is capable of.
I'm fitting a knock box from an '86 GTI to my car as we speak so I can get a little more aggressive with timing. I'd fit an intercooler, but my car has A/C and I live in a place where having that is pretty important. Out of curiosity, has anyone added an intercooler to a car with one of those big York air conditioning compressors?


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (golfman1966)*

Nice to see your page is back up Keith!








My car should be up and running again pretty soon... looking (groveling actually







) for 230 whp on CIS with the latest modifications.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Nice to see your page is back up Keith!









Just wanted to say WOW what a great web page, tons of great information. Keep it up man! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Oh and page nine is mine!


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 11:12 PM 9-7-2006_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

I know this has been talked about before in this thread but I wanted to bring it up again. As I'm sure you all know the Volvo 240 FD is good up till 220 HP or so but what I'm wondering is how can even more HP be extracted fron this setup? I've been thinking about adding a micro fueler or some type of extra injector to get more power but I'm un sure about how to do it. I also thought about adding nitrous to get more power but I don't know how safe that will be with the turbo. By that I mean because I'm already boosting the motor not beacuse of the turbo itself. I'd like to get around 250 or so at the wheels with CIS. Is this possible?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

make sure you talk to peter tong I know hes about at that point...
I honestly gave up on CIS its not that it cant be done I just didnt have the patience for it. I know patatron helped a buddy on cis get to 250 hp but he had the SS EIC so yes the extra injector can get you there but if your going to add an Elec Injector why not just switch over to MS or digi1? Not trying to bust the CIS bubble because I used it for a hot minute and thought it was cool to squeeze power out of that ancient system but like I said I just got tired of the innacurate tinkering I was doing..
Im now in process of building an AbA16vT on Megasquirt SnS (thanks patatron)
I dont have my rabbit anymore Im selling the body and keeping hte setup because im moving to Germany and im giong to build a real German Mk1 turbo with the setup im collecting here in the states







hopefully the New body doesnt reject the non german parts its getting








also with the nitrous thing im no expert but if you maxed out the fueling under boost you wouldnt be able to add nitrous for more power because you need to compensate the fuel for that as well...


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

me and spnksvw put a micorfueler set up on my turbo cis that he made out of a volvo ijecctor and a controler that he made and programed. 
we've started my car up and got it running, but we have some issues to work out so i can't really tell you if it worked or not, but as soon as i get it up and going halfway decient i'll post up about how good it works. on the bench it worked perfect now it's just seeing how it works in reality.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (******)*

I used a callaway microfueler setup on my car and it ran awesome really no complaints..I just wanted/needed more power


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_I used a callaway microfueler setup on my car and it ran awesome really no complaints..I just wanted/needed more power

You mean you didn't have enough torque all through the rev band


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Do you guys think a g grind cam is a bad thing for my set up?
What do you use?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (infront)*

it would probably be better to use a noprmal cam, but i don't think it's going to make that big of a difference.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (******)*

Can't use a cam with large duration or overlap. It will destroy your motor. Use the stock cam. (solid lifter is better)


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (infront)*

A G-grind works pretty well for boost... keep it


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_A G-grind works pretty well for boost... keep it









i'm using a g-grind in mine, but thats about as cam'd as i would get. anything other than a g-grind is too much.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (******)*

I used a g-grind and had no issues with it at all http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Great, thanks!
So.......yesterday, I decided to weld the crack on my exhaust manifold. I disconnected the battery







and clamped the ground cable to the boss of the o2 sensor (sensor still in place) on the downpipe.......
Post welding, I had an issue with my narrowband showing a lean condition....







I was getting 2-3 leds lit of the ten or so there are on the gauge - pretty much regardless of tickover, load, WOT. May have been a flicker of change, but nothing like what I normally see. I was getting the usual total lean (i.e. blackout of the nb) for split second upon flooring it, which I have become accustomed to, but it just bounces back to 2-3 leds i.e. middle of the lean scale








The car otherwise runs fine - no pinging or anything wierd.
I threw in the towel after I replaced the o2 sensor (took ages) and had the same result....and whilst on the accompanying test run, I got stopped for 46 in a 30














He let me off















I'm embarrased - where did I go wrong?? It's times like these that I think that going to megasquirt could be the worst thing for me to do.....
Cheers


----------



## j-dub-u (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: (infront)*

OK, I'm pretty much a noob looking to boost my '86 GLI. I have read this thread start to finish three times. I am not looking to make alot of power, I'm just trying to make my car a lil more fun to drive. I'm looking to push 6-8 psi to my 8v w/ a .42/.48 T3. The thing is I wanna stay w/ a much more simple design that you guys are usuing. My idea is to use the additional injector(some type of cold start injector or a NOS fuel solinoid w/ changeable jets) method for enrichment under boost using an adj. pressure switch. I know this isnt the most precise method but I'm not going for total A/F ratio perfection. I also plan to try and use the dual port vac. advance canister on my stock dizzy, that is if I can find one.
One question I have is w/ this setup will I need an FMU (I havent heard of one mentioned in this thread) to bump up the FP under boost conditions.
Another question is when plumbing the intake tract of my turbo setup, where should I plumb the airflow sensor on the FD? Should it be plumbed on the intake side of the turbo or on the downstream side(under boost side). Any replys are appreciated.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (j-dub-u)*

Quick question, has anyone used the Volvo 240 turbo FD on a N/A application and how well does it work? I have a extra Volvo 240 turbo FD and WUR that I could test on my '84 GTI but if It's not worth doing then I'm not gona waste my time.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (j-dub-u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *j-dub-u* »_OK, I'm pretty much a noob looking to boost my '86 GLI. I have read this thread start to finish three times. I am not looking to make alot of power, I'm just trying to make my car a lil more fun to drive.

If I'm not mistaken your car has CIS-E and I personally never had any experience with boosting an engine equipped with that fuel system before. Also without a intercooler your gona be limited to 6 lbs _maby_ 8. The FD needs to be plumbed to the intake side of the turbo. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of CIS-E will chime in soon. It's not much but I hope it helps. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Quick question, has anyone used the Volvo 240 turbo FD on a N/A application and how well does it work? I have a extra Volvo 240 turbo FD and WUR that I could test on my '84 GTI but if It's not worth doing then I'm not gona waste my time.

My 88 Cabriolet is still NA and has the Volvo set up. Runs great, no fuel issues, and the fuel economy is the same.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_
My 88 Cabriolet is still NA and has the Volvo set up. Runs great, no fuel issues, and the fuel economy is the same.

Did you gain any performance or is it the same as stock?


----------



## imurni (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Hey Evol or (any of you cis turbo vets), what's a good turbo size for my cis turbo project? I've got a GARRETT TA3405 hybrid turbocharger: T04E 57 trim .60 A/R compressor side (powdercoated Gunmetal); .63 A/R stage 3 turbine side. Is this too big?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (imurni)*


_Quote, originally posted by *imurni* »_Hey Evol or (any of you cis turbo vets), what's a good turbo size for my cis turbo project? I've got a GARRETT TA3405 hybrid turbocharger: T04E 57 trim .60 A/R compressor side (powdercoated Gunmetal); .63 A/R stage 3 turbine side. Is this too big?

Not that it won't spin the turbo up, but you won't be able to run the turbo anywhere near its potential. It will take longer to spin up also. So, yes you can use it, but its probably not optimal unless you are planning on going standalone later.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (realpower)*

the only one I used is a t3 .48/.60 Garrett turbo and I loved it...power really quick (for a turbo) and I dont think you will be running this turbo to its potential either with CIS....OR you could always go peter tong's route and have instant power smooth across the band...


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
Did you gain any performance or is it the same as stock?

Same as stock, but remember with a stock 88 JH motor there is not much more to gain with the exhaust system and the other stock items.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_
Same as stock, but remember with a stock 88 JH motor there is not much more to gain with the exhaust system and the other stock items.

True that, did you have any issues with the cold start injector as far as hooking it up? I've heard the rabbit CSI line is to short.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Anyone out there have a callaway 90 degree elbow to sell? Or better yet a weber throttle body? I can't boost past 10 psi because my intake boot is leaking so bad. Trying to clamp a hose onto an off-oval throttle body is not fun.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (realpower)*

yes eurokid that stock line will be like a damn guitar string if you stretch it across there...trust me because I did it for a while..its def not safe


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Hey, I have a question for you 240t dizzy guys. I have the frequency valve hooked up to what is labeled the cold start injector. Both of these ports are marked as "out". Does this matter? It seems to run fine. ( I have no O2 sensor hooked up however)


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_True that, did you have any issues with the cold start injector as far as hooking it up? I've heard the rabbit CSI line is to short. 

I did not use the 'stock' cold start valve port on the 240 dist. I capped that off and is not used. The cold start line is hooked up to the fuel pressure input line at the fuel dist. I used a bolt that allows the smaller banjo bolt that fits into the large banjo bolt. 
I decided to do that since I agreed with other posts that having the fuel line so close to the battery positive post was asking for trouble [even if it only happened in an accident]. I have not had any issues with the way it is bolted up. There is a picture a few posts above this one that shows that bolt [usaed for the fuel return line in that picture]. The only issue was the longer #1 injector I was able to source a free one from my Shop Foreman. 
I know someone is wondering why all the troubles just to install it on a stock Cabriolet but as some may know [Peter T?] my project is still in the planning mode even though I have about $10k in parts just to install. Money is easy, just no time to install all those parts. I am closer now than last year but the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is not done.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Butcher)*

when i started the car this weekend i noticed that the blow off valve is open and sucking air when the car is at idle but closed when i pull the throttle, is that the way it's supposed to work? it just seems like it's getting to much air so we had to adjust the air fuel mixture at the fuel dizzy to get it to idle normally, with out the djustment it would idle real rough and shut off. 
i'm getting like 16lbs of vacum and i have checked every line for a leak, and there just isn't one so what am i missing to make this thing run right or is the blow of valve bad and i need a new one or do i need to re-route the blow of valve back into the system and make it a diverter system? all help is appreciated.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (******)*

What BOV are you using? Sounds like you have it hooked up in bypass mode.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

i bought the intercooler pipe work and the bov from a fellow texer that i can't remember now, but it's a mitsu bov that the guy i bought it from was using, but since i can't remember the guys name i can't ask him how he had it set up.
it that what it sounds like that i need to re-circulate the bov air opening back into the pipework to make it run right? if it is in bypass mode how would i get it in the right "mode"?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (******)*

you need to route the open port to the intake tube (before turbo after Fuel distributor)


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

ok, thats what me and my friend had thought. it just didn't seem right to have all that air going into the motor. thanks, i'll try that.


----------



## Pen_vdubGolf (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: (******)*

does anyone know how well the stock td mani and 1.6 kkk turbo works on a stock 8v and what is the max psi i could run with the stock fuel system ... i was also wondering if i will have shift linkage isues ??


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*

Hey, I have a question for you 240t dizzy guys. I have the frequency valve hooked up to what is labeled the cold start injector. Both of these ports are marked as "out". Does this matter? It seems to run fine. ( I have no O2 sensor hooked up however)


----------



## imurni (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*

What is the best cam for solid 8v cis? Just a g grinder? Any specs on custom ginds that worked well?


----------



## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (imurni)*

Does anyone have the part number for the aluminum air box/tray from the volvo 240, early cis. It disregards the air box air filter and allows for an actual cold air intake to be used.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2847135


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (SvenRasta)*

i dont knwo the part number but i have one if your interested?


----------



## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (******)*

IM sent


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (imurni)*


_Quote, originally posted by *imurni* »_What is the best cam for solid 8v cis? Just a g grinder? Any specs on custom ginds that worked well?

The G grind works well with FI.


----------



## golfman1966 (Aug 18, 2006)

I get a few emails from folks that read my web site, most of them asking for advice or information. Today I got one offering some advice, and I'd like to know what you guys think.
The topic is the never-ending discussion of what control pressure regulator to use with turbo applications. I know many of you are using Audi 5k or Volvo 240T regulators, which seem to work fine.
This fellow that emails me says any WUR with a vacuum port will work the same way. At first I blew him off, but he was quite emphatic that he's used these before and they work. 
So, I pull out my copy of Bosch Fuel Injection and Engine Management and start reading the sections on the control pressure regulator. It only mentions the vacuum ports can be hooked to manifold vacuum or turbo pressure. No mention of the special turbo regulators.
So, I check out the regulator on my car. It's the type with the vacuum port on the front left, and has altitude compensation. It just has the one vacuum port. I decide to run a little test, so I hook up my Mightyvac to the vaccum port, start the car, and pull a vacuum on it. Car idle speeds up. Then I take the hose and blow a little shop air into it. Engine starts to bog down from being too rich.
At this point I'm thinking this fellow is right? Presently I'm using the hack of installing a pressure switch to activate the cold temperature switch, and I would like something a little more sophisticated. 
Thoughts anyone?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (golfman1966)*


_Quote, originally posted by *golfman1966* »_I get a few emails from folks that read my web site, most of them asking for advice or information. Today I got one offering some advice, and I'd like to know what you guys think.
The topic is the never-ending discussion of what control pressure regulator to use with turbo applications. I know many of you are using Audi 5k or Volvo 240T regulators, which seem to work fine.
This fellow that emails me says any WUR with a vacuum port will work the same way. At first I blew him off, but he was quite emphatic that he's used these before and they work. 
So, I pull out my copy of Bosch Fuel Injection and Engine Management and start reading the sections on the control pressure regulator. It only mentions the vacuum ports can be hooked to manifold vacuum or turbo pressure. No mention of the special turbo regulators.
So, I check out the regulator on my car. It's the type with the vacuum port on the front left, and has altitude compensation. It just has the one vacuum port. I decide to run a little test, so I hook up my Mightyvac to the vaccum port, start the car, and pull a vacuum on it. Car idle speeds up. Then I take the hose and blow a little shop air into it. Engine starts to bog down from being too rich.
At this point I'm thinking this fellow is right? Presently I'm using the hack of installing a pressure switch to activate the cold temperature switch, and I would like something a little more sophisticated. 
Thoughts anyone?

This paragraph confuses me. Maybe add some part numbers?
I am using an audi 5k with altitude compensation and 2 ports on the side. When I clamp off the vaccum to it, the car dies from being too rich. This help? (part number 094) However, I might switch back to a stock non boost sensitive regulator because I am actually running rich. 


_Modified by realpower at 5:30 PM 10-2-2006_


----------



## golfman1966 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_
This paragraph confuses me. Maybe add some part numbers?
I am using an audi 5k with altitude compensation and 2 ports on the side. When I clamp off the vaccum to it, the car dies from being too rich. This help? (part number 094) However, I might switch back to a stock non boost sensitive regulator because I am actually running rich. 

_Modified by realpower at 5:30 PM 10-2-2006_









What I am talking about is using the WUR with a single port on the FRONT. No vacuum connections on the sides. Hooking a boost signal to the single front port seems to lower the control pressure. 

_Modified by golfman1966 at 7:44 PM 10-2-2006_


_Modified by golfman1966 at 7:45 PM 10-2-2006_


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (golfman1966)*

I have tried this on certain Mercedes and although they will compensate for altitude it did not do a large correction under a lot of psi [like about 200mb]. Does that mean that they all are that way, certainly not, but all the ones I tested did not enrichen that much.


----------



## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (Butcher)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2854448 You CIS gurus... help me with this thread please


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (SvenRasta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SvenRasta* »_ http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2854448 You CIS gurus... help me with this thread please

And then come back here and help me with my question on the previous page and top of this page.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (realpower)*

I used a G-grind cam I answered this in the post already as well as a few others..that cam worked awesome for me..


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_I used a G-grind cam I answered this in the post already as well as a few others..that cam worked awesome for me..

works for me as well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_
And then come back here and help me with my question on the previous page and top of this page.
Try the ex. cam intake swap







.


_Modified by SvenRasta at 9:29 PM 10-3-2006_


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (SvenRasta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SvenRasta* »_Try the ex. cam intake swap







.

_Modified by SvenRasta at 9:29 PM 10-3-2006_


Huh? I wanted some answers from some cis gurus about the placement of my frequency valve and cold start valve.


----------



## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_Huh? I wanted some answers from some cis gurus about the placement of my frequency valve and cold start valve.
my bad...


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Headgasket*

Assuming that I am right......What is the best head gasket for my JH engined Rabbit. I would like to go with a G60 metal gasket, but just looked (quickly) and found they were ~$60. A stock gasket being say $20 and a metal ABA gasket was only $20 too. Would the ABA one work on my engine?
I'm sure one of you will have the knowledge.
Cheers guys
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WOLFBURGSFINEST (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: Headgasket (infront)*

I know they are pricey like $120 pricey but EIP has copper head gaskets that will lower you compression down to around 8:1 which Is excellent for boost applications.


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: Headgasket (WOLFBURGSFINEST)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WOLFBURGSFINEST* »_I know they are pricey like $120 pricey but EIP has copper head gaskets that will lower you compression down to around 8:1 which Is excellent for boost applications.

It is amazing that $60 for a headgasket is too much to prevent headaches. 
With a proper engine you do not need a metal headgasket for a JH engine esp. ones that are using CIS. Properly tuned is where you want to spend your time and money. If you cannot spend your time and money on that, then lower boost is your ticket for longevity. 
About the copper gasket that lowers the compression, JH engines are already low enough, so do not waste your time on larger gaskets that will just make your engine less efficient when off boost. Normal CIS fuel systems will not keep up with 20 psi of boost and 7-1 compression.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: Headgasket (Butcher)*

That did seem to be a bit extreme, lowering the comp even further, esp for $120. I assume that Wolfsburgsfinest forgets that JH Rabbits are 8.5:1 stock.
My question indirectly I guess is what is the difference between an ABA and G60 gasket for such a great price difference. I have no problem parting with $60 or $120 for that matter, but on a JH 150k mile engine worth didley, will an ABA gasket at $20 work? I see that people use stacked ABA gaskets (on ABA turbo conv's) and appear to be happy with that. 
So does the ABA gasket have the relevant 22mm breather and 16mm oil return holes in the right places? In my mind a metal gasket vs a stock gasket for the same $$ is a much better choice - right?
Thanks for the replies http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WOLFBURGSFINEST (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: Headgasket (infront)*

Yeah I didn't read that very well.







Im not building a JH rabbit. lol. I in other hand wanted to do it properly and lower mine with a copper head gasket.


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: Headgasket (infront)*

I have heard that the ABA does work but do not rely on what I heard. Check the G60 folks.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: Headgasket (Butcher)*

bump


----------



## RiverBunny (Jun 18, 2001)

*Re: Headgasket (realpower)*

Just got her running, 16vT CIS VWMS for your viewing pleasure. Some things to sort out / add. But, oh my she lives


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Headgasket (RiverBunny)*

are you planning on sticking with CIS on that setup? and not to sound rude but can I ask why your sticking with CIS?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: Headgasket (Residentevol)*

To be different.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Headgasket (realpower)*

well okay that answers one part of the question but I doubt the whole 16vT swap was done only to be different. Im trying to find out why the owner of the car decided on CIS not saying thats a bad thing I ran a turbo 8v mk1 on CIS and had a blast...


----------



## RiverBunny (Jun 18, 2001)

*Re: Headgasket (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_... I ran a turbo 8v mk1 on CIS and had a blast...

I just want to see what I can do with it. I have intentions of efi later
VWMS CIS
Volvo 2 port cpr
T3 turbonetics
Tial 
dsm bov


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Headgasket (RiverBunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RiverBunny* »_









Looks great man, what's the estimated HP?


----------



## RiverBunny (Jun 18, 2001)

*Re: Headgasket (EuroKid83)*

Thanks. 
I am thinking of getting to the track this weekend... So that would help on some estimated numbers.
3in DP
3 in exhaust, side. hehe


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Headgasket (RiverBunny)*

that is going to be a lot of fun....I wasnt trying to say CIS is weak its just obviously a dated system that has its limits. I never took CIS to the limit I made a safe good amount of power and then decided to go megasquirt....but ill always keep an eye on the CIS turbo threads because I love the ingenuity involved with these cars! keep up the good work fellas :thumup:
Is the date on htat pic true? youve been workin on that for a lOOOONNNNGGGGGG TIME!


----------



## RiverBunny (Jun 18, 2001)

*Re: Headgasket (Residentevol)*

The date is not right. It did take me too long to finally get everything together, tho. I had it out for a quick run up the street. It pulls pretty nicely.


----------



## vagrant_mugen (Jun 13, 2006)

does anyone have a picture of the vac. retard advance canister? im not sure if i grabbed it at the yard.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (vagrant_mugen)*

it looks the same as the other one only it has two nipples one on the front and one on the back.


----------



## vagrant_mugen (Jun 13, 2006)

the same as what other one? do you mean the WUR? please explain.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (vagrant_mugen)*

the vac canister looks just like the regular canister except the boost sensitive one you want has a nipple on the back as well as one on the front, other then that the stock canister and the bosst canister look the same.


----------



## rocco mk1 16vturbo (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

hey guys i have a turbo rocco on cis. last weekend i blow up my turbo on it i had a t3/t4 turbo set up on it was running pretty nice now im puting on a t3 super 60 should be better for it. my motor set up is a 1.8 16v head fully ported no polishe aba 2.0 8v block with arp rod bolts and 2.0 16v oil pump with a 182 teeth timing belt on stock cis for fuel mag. it runs really good. let me know if any one got the same set up.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (rocco mk1 16vturbo)*

why dont you just get a nice spooling t3/t4 again? I like the t3 .60 but from what ive been told over and over again is that the super 60 is not really worth the extra cash just get a regular 60. But I am building up an aba 16v project right now as well! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vagrant_mugen (Jun 13, 2006)

well seeing as i dont know what the "regular" canister looks like can somebody describe where its located on an 88 16v GTI? i have only owned a cis car for 2 weeks. throw me a friggin bone here. any pics? anyone?


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (vagrant_mugen)*

A 16v doesn't have a vac canister as standard, only the 8 valve cars have them (amongst others).
I'll throw up a pic tomorrow of both stock & turbo style if you need them. But I don't beleive that they will fit a 16v either way...
Anyone else ??


----------



## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_A 16v doesn't have a vac canister as standard, only the 8 valve cars have them (amongst others).
I'll throw up a pic tomorrow of both stock & turbo style if you need them. But I don't beleive that they will fit a 16v either way...
Anyone else ??
right...but he's not using CIS-E...the addition of the WUR and deletion of the knock system converts the car to CIS which is what old stock 8v'ers pump...so yes...it'll fit.


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (SvenRasta)*

Sorry then, I retract that statement


----------



## vagrant_mugen (Jun 13, 2006)

pics would be sweet. thanks


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (vagrant_mugen)*

The canister at the top is the dual port one from an Audi Turbo (I believe), the one in the distributor is a standard one from a CIS 84 Rabbit.








Either way, these are conected to the vacuum which controls the arm rotating the inside of the dizzy for advance or retard.


----------



## MHmotorsport (Nov 9, 2006)

And would the advance curve be good if you use this audi canister on a vw 8v with a T3 ?


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (MHmotorsport)*

Supposedly this is the way forward for an 8v turbo set up - that's what I have, but I never got around to fitting it before I jumped ship and moved to Megasquirt.
I was running 6 pounds of boost without it, but not for long before I pulled it all apart again...


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (infront)*

I ran about 10 lbs with it and it seemed fine..but then I went with the Crane Hi-6 ignition setup that controlled all of my timing under boost so I ditched it again...


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (MHmotorsport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MHmotorsport* »_And would the advance curve be good if you use this audi canister on a vw 8v with a T3 ?

If your running stock ignition you need the turbo canister. That's the only way to retard the ignition timing under boost. I do know there is less vacuum advance with the turbo canister then there is with the NA canister. The advance "curve" is controlled by the centrifugal advance mechanism in the distributor itself, not by the canister. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MHmotorsport (Nov 9, 2006)

Ow yeah, forgot all about the centrifugal mechanism... thanks


----------



## 8VDualRounds (Mar 8, 2004)

Alright, I have read this thread many times and has been real helpful http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I plan on building a turbo kit for my 85 cis-e 8v (engine code GX). If I recall correctly the GX code is 8.5:1 compression ratio which would make it so I would not need to stack head gaskets or get a thicker one. The turbo and manifold I plan to use is an Audi 5000 turbo, exhaust mani, turbo and wastegate and chop the 5th runner. But would it also be an option for me to get the manifold, turbo, and oilpan from a 1.6 TD and bolt that on? 



_Modified by 8VDualRounds at 11:46 PM 11-14-2006_


----------



## vagrant_mugen (Jun 13, 2006)

thanks for the picture. finally clears it up for me. not really a canister though. looks more like a diaphram. oh well. thanks anyway.


----------



## JeTTa_Type_R (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: (vagrant_mugen)*

My setup is almost completed.
I'm making the turbo/intercooler/tb piping now.
Before I crank the car, I want to know if the vacuum lines remain the same as their N/A setup.
'cause if I look at the valve cover and the pcv, it's connected to the intake manifold and in N/A setup, it was fine. But what happens when there's boost in the intake manifold ? Will I have boost pushing in the pcv ?
If anyone can enlighten me for the vacuum connections.
Thanks !


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (JeTTa_Type_R)*

No boost to the pvc, one way valves on everything else.


----------



## ABA Mk2 (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: (realpower)*

How 'bout this one...
I have a knock sensor ignition system that I was going to install with my turbo build. I have heard that the map sensor in the knock box can become unsoldered by boost pressures @ 12psi+. Any truth to this?I dont plan on running any more than 10 psi MAX.
Should I just switch to the dual port vacuum canister? 
My only hesitation is that I like the idea of 'intelligent' knock control with the box, and I've already polished the electrical advance distributor thats used with the KS ignition. If I go with the vacuum can I need to polish another distributor...







Heres to cis turbo'd cars.


----------



## G60orbust (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: (8VDualRounds)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8VDualRounds* »_The turbo and manifold I plan to use is an Audi 5000 turbo, exhaust mani, turbo and wastegate and chop the 5th runner. But would it also be an option for me to get the manifold, turbo, and oilpan from a 1.6 TD and bolt that on? 

kinetic motorsport sells the 8v turbo manifolds for $275 if you want a shiny new one














less work than getting the Audi mani
saab's have a decent snail if your looking for junk yard parts
and so do volvo 240T's
and the 1.6 pan should bolt up


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

noob question here. how much power will cis handle? i got a bf snake manifold, t3/t4 60 trim .63 ar, tial 38mm and i'm gonna run the split second additional injector controller. i'm gonna lower compression via headgasket and run it intercooled. will the cis work well and how much power should i be making say 8-10 psi?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

I run 15-16 on my crappy thrown together system on a 8.5 engine without having to stack headgaskets. It flys. However, on summer days when the manifold gets heat soaked from the exhaust some detonation can happen at WOT.
If I can get my 1-2 shift correct the 2400 lb jetta will go about 15 flat. About 175 horses, but there is more to be had in tuning.
Make sure to change your plugs. I found B8ES plugs work the best.
I have beat the CRAP out of this car for about 3000 miles and havn't had a failure besides a little oil pressure problem that was happening before the turbo ever was on.


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

is that on an 8v, i have a 16v 88 gti


----------



## MHmotorsport (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: (infront)*

Ok, yesterday i got the turbo and CIS basic stuff off a 1982 saab 900...
I took the vacuum canister as well, seeing as it's designed for a cis basic turbo engine... (i could always find an audi one later) 
The weird thing about it is it only has one port... But otherwise it does look exactely alike... i tested it and it can advance quite a lot and retard a little bit, until it hits something that stops it from going further (same as the audi one in the pictures above)...








But come to think of it: why would i need 2 ports ? the pressure in the intake will retard the ingition just like it will advance it with vacuum, no ? Or am i missing something here ?



_Modified by MHmotorsport at 9:24 AM 11-27-2006_


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Well, i've decided to turbo my 85' Golf.. 
I just bought this stuff off of Ebay:
Volvo 240 fuel dist
Audi 5k WUR
Audi 5k Vac Canister
All i need is a manifold and a turbo along with exhaust etc.. This will probably be a long build, but hopefully i'll have the car up and running by the spring!!
Just thought i'd share.. 
I was thinking about running a T3 turbo along with an Mazda T2 IC.. My brother has a few turbo mazda parts laying around so he might have some more stuff i can use.. 
I cant wait to get this project going!


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*

well you could've come close to buying your turbo if you hadn't bought the volvo canister and WUR. you don't really need those things to start off with. you can build a turbo car without them it's just as you drive it you'll want more power and those things will come in handy.


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Well, i figured that i should pick up those pieces since i dont seem to come across them that much on ebay/tex.. 
I can always sell them!


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*

i wouldn't sell them i would keep them. i was just saying that you could be closer to your turbo if you hadn't bought them, but since you allready have i wouldn't worry about it. i have both in my garage, but i haven't put them on my cabby yet. i wanted to see how it ran witht he parts that i know work. it would suck to put all the parts on and have it not work because the WUR or the fuel dizzy was bad. it would take me forever of trouble shooting to find out those parts were bad. i know the stuff thats on it works so thats one less thing to worry about.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (******)*

good call ****** I wish I had done that when I put mine together I threw it together with a volvo dizzy new ignition the wur and had issues with getting it to stay running forever...turns out the 3mm a/f screw was just wayyyyyy out of wack...live and learn I guess


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Ahh.. good call.. I was planning on getting the car to work first then toss on the volvo dist and wur.. 
So i can really just put on a turbo/manifold and leave everything else alone to start out with?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*

yeah, you don't need the volvo dizzy or the audi wur those things just add more fuel to the set up so that you can get more boost without blowing it up.
like i said, i'd start with what you know. if you know that the stock dizzy and stock wur work then leave them alone. it'll save you trouble shooting in the end. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Now all i gotta do is figure out what i'm going to do for a turbo/manifold..
I'm either going to go the Audi route ala 5k mani with a k2? turbo or a T3 setup with a log manifold.. I guess it'll come down to what i can find for the best price.. 
With that being said, what kind of power can i expect with a T3 and stock everything else? What about if i upgraded to the Audi WUR and the Volvo dizzy?


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

I'm currious what I can use to join an Intercooler pipe to the stock Oval throttle body? More specifically, for a longitudinal engine setup like the Dasher/Quantum/Fox.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*

well if you go on ebay you can get an apt look alike for about 175 plus 25 for shipping thats what i'm going to do, or you could look around for someone selling a callaway or home made. whatever you do just keep in mind that you have mechanical shift and that the turbo may have an affect on your shifting.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Southcross)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Southcross* »_I'm currious what I can use to join an Intercooler pipe to the stock Oval throttle body? More specifically, for a longitudinal engine setup like the Dasher/Quantum/Fox.

you could try and find an audi 5k throttle body boot. it was made to fit the oval throttle body, and it's pretty sturdy.


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: (******)*

the Audi 5000 turbo throttle body is on the front of the engine... not on the back like the Dasher/Fox/Quantum. It might work, but it won't have the 90/180 bend.
I acutally have no interest in a Callaway TB fitting... fine... dandy... but I could make _anything_ work for 1/10th the cost. I'm just currious what could be adapted and is readily available.


----------



## imurni (May 22, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

What downpipe are you guys using. I have an 8V SII Rocco and looking for a turbo downpipe. Who makes em?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (imurni)*

i don't think you'r going to find a company that makes them. you're probably going to have to find a shop to fab one for you.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (imurni)*

What turbo are you running, I might have a 2.5" one that I had fabbed. It looks like the standard downpipe except larger. The callaway turbos were made to be used with the stock exhaust equiptment.
Unfortunatley, I think I am going to have to trade my callaway turbo'd jetta for a diesel rabbit or something. Got one more speeding ticket this week and I think im gonna have to drive nice for a year or two.


----------



## imurni (May 22, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (realpower)*

Looking for a 2.25


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Yea, i think having a shop fab you up something is probably your best bet..


----------



## 8VDualRounds (Mar 8, 2004)

Im gonna start my cis turbo project real soon, well I already kinda did. I had cis-e to start so I had a different dpr and wur so for all you cis-e guys you can do what I did and get a cis-e FD from a 2.0 16v. Its more fuel and higher pressure. It feels like I just put a cam in my car with the $25 I spent at the junkyard. Now I just need a k26 turbo, manifold, wastegate and a vacuum advance/retard canister. I cant wait till Its finished. Should be around middle of Jan.


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Hmm.. Good call on the 16v FD..


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

can you run a short runner intake manifold with cis?


----------



## 91gl (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: (16vgti2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vgti2* »_can you run a short runner intake manifold with cis?

yes you can, a guy up here has a rabbit with a full 2.0 x-flow swap converted to cis, fully prepped engine with an hkk short runner. daily drives it too.


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

where can i find one


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

my cis turbo project should be done this week!!!! heres a couple of pics!!


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Looks good!


----------



## 8VDualRounds (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (Satur9)*

Found a turbo a manifold...well I found a ton really. I have no idea which would be my best bet. I can get a k26 turbo, manifold, wastegate. A t3 exhaust manifold and a turbonetics t3 turbo (can get exact specs), callaway manifold with turbo or a rayjay turbo and manifold. Im kinda leaning towards the t3 manifold with a certain t3 turbo from spooledmotorsports.com. There are so many options when it comes to this so I would just like to know everybodys manifold and turbo setup. I guess the deciding factor for me is location and money.


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Yea, i'm kinda in the same boat.. 
I either want an Audi manid with a K26 or a Cast T3 mani and a Garrett T3 turbo.. Like you said, it'll come down to what i can find for a good price and location..


----------



## oneofakindgti (Jul 8, 2004)

ive been reading this thread and i seee its mostly 8vers in here..is there any 16vers with CISE? if so could they chime in..what would i need to successfully pull it off..i already have a t3 turbo and kinetic manifold..oil lines and boost piping isnt a problem but just worried about timing issues..what would i need to do or could i run a turbo with the motor under stock setting? any help would be appreciated



_Modified by oneofakindgti at 2:10 AM 12-6-2006_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (8VDualRounds)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8VDualRounds* »_I would just like to know everybodys manifold and turbo setup.

I'm running a ATP cast turbo mani with a Turbonetics T3/T4 .50 trim. I port matched the exhaust mani, fully ported head, and ported A2 CIS intake manifold.


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Im running the callaway manifold with the callaway to4b (witch is just a bit smaller than eurokids t3/t4) the old t04b is like a t3/t4 47 trim with a .48A/R on the hot side!! All the manifolds are going to be just as good as each other i would just get the one that is the cheapest. Like eurokid i also have a ported a2 cis intake mani w/ported g60 tb, ported exhaust mani, and i port matched the inletsfor both manifolds.


----------



## oldskoolvolkswagen (Sep 21, 2005)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

http://www.racecraft-fabrication.com Custom turbo manifolds. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (oldskoolvolkswagen)*

good lord that place is expensive. you can get an APT style manifold on ebay for 175 and everyone i know that has one says they're a good product.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Where do you tap the engine for the oil feed lines?


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Ah.. I guess everyone just taps a line right off the oil filter..


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Satur9* »_Ah.. I guess everyone just taps a line right off the oil filter.. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Sweet.. Just got my Audi WUR and Saab retard cansiter in the mail today! I think i found a G60 block near me as well that i'm thinking about picking up.. 
One question thou, how do i hook up the WUR to the CIS setup?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*

it replaces the existing wur on your block.


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_it replaces the existing wur on your block.
I assume he has the WUR that has the vacuum/boost line fittings... I too have wondered how they are hooked up


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Yea, i dont have a WUR my car is an 85' GL..


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Satur9)*

Mine is an 87 GL and it has a WUR.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (realpower)*

hmm thats odd just remember that most people have had sucess by pluggin the vac/boost line into the large port on the side of the WUR leaving the other one open...I however got my car running smoothly with leaving it unhooked whenever I gave mine boost/vac pressure it would freak out under boost...


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Yea, i guess i'm a little confused.. The bently says theres a harness thats right near the CTS, which i'm assuming is for a WUR.. But my car doesnt have a WUR at all..
Its kinda hard to see, but there isnt anything located above the billet plate near the dipstick.. 








So would i just hook up a vac line to the larger nipple on the side and thats it?










_Modified by Satur9 at 8:02 AM 12-9-2006_


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Satur9)*

I don't think that is an 87, or someone updated the fuel injection to the newer style CIS-E. (block off plate) That is CIS-E. You can tell by the aluminum fuel distributor. CIS basic and CIS with lamda are black iron fuel dizzy's.








I hear that those are easier to get fuel out of, IE a resistor in a temp sensor or something. Do some digging and you will find info.


_Modified by realpower at 12:54 AM 12-9-2006_


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*

Oh and you hook the vaccum/boost line up to the SMALL port on the side of the audi 5000 WUR. NOT the big one.


----------



## 8VDualRounds (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (realpower)*

^^^
With CIS-e you can get the fuel distributor along with the fuel accumulator off a 2.0 16v engine. I put one on my 85 cis-e andyou can really tell the difference, you get fuel and it pulls great at all RPM's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Weird.
All this time i thought i had CIS with lamda since i have an O2 sensor.. 
Ha
So i would just run a vac line to the small nipple on the side of the wur and thats it?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Satur9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Satur9* »_Weird.
All this time i thought i had CIS with lamda since i have an O2 sensor.. 
Ha
So i would just run a vac line to the small nipple on the side of the wur and thats it?

You do not have a warm up regulator. You have CIS-e. There are other ways to get more fuel out of CIS-e.


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_Oh and you hook the vaccum/boost line up to the SMALL port on the side of the audi 5000 WUR. NOT the big one. 
kewl, Danke!


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

So what can be done to get more fuel out of the CIS-E setup? What if i just swap in a volvo fuel dist and go from there?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*

the volvo fuel dizzy will give you more fuel, but you really might want to look into a micro fueler for more fuel than that. the stock fuel dizzy can handle about 180hp untill it starts to crap out, the volvo fuel dizzy can handle 220, i believe.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_The volvo fuel dizzy can handle 220, i believe.

This is true. I like to use the Volvo WUR and FD, good for 220 crank hp if I remember correctly.


----------



## 16vgti2 (Apr 6, 2006)

or an additional injector controller will deliver more fuel, right?


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (16vgti2)*

heres an update on my project...
i just finished fabricating the intercooler pipes and the turbo intake tube. here are some pics:
*this is the 3 inch turbo intake*








*This is what the intercooler looks like through the grill*








*the following are of the intercooler pipes (2.5 inch)*
















*My wastegate was to big for the callaway mani so i relocated it * 








*All most done!!!!!!!!!! hopefully tomorrow*


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_Oh and you hook the vaccum/boost line up to the SMALL port on the side of the audi 5000 WUR. NOT the big one. 

I would like to know where you got that information? not being an arse but I read so many countless posts from the past (before the forum dump) and they were many people testing it out turns out large one was the one to use?...


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_
I would like to know where you got that information? not being an arse but I read so many countless posts from the past (before the forum dump) and they were many people testing it out turns out large one was the one to use?...


I have one on my car, and am holding one in my hands. My car does not idle unless it is hooked up to the small one. You will notice that the small one has a barb on the end to keep a line from slipping off, while the big one doesn't.


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_the volvo fuel dizzy will give you more fuel, but you really might want to look into a micro fueler for more fuel than that. the stock fuel dizzy can handle about 180hp untill it starts to crap out, the volvo fuel dizzy can handle 220, i believe.
yep... 220HP... I just dropped my Volvo Distro on eBay, I decided to go MegaSquirt on my project
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Southcross)*

i got most of the way complete with mine cis turbo and then just decided to drop in a 2.0 with mega squirt so i know how you feel. it wasn't the head ache of cis or anything i just happened to have the 2.0 and wanted to do something else.


----------



## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_i got most of the way complete with mine cis turbo and then just decided to drop in a 2.0 with mega squirt so i know how you feel. it wasn't the head ache of cis or anything i just happened to have the 2.0 and wanted to do something else.
hehehe... well I like the symplicity of CIS, but my project is going to make a little more than 220HP


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Southcross)*

i hear ya man, i really wanted to make the cis work, but i just had all the parts kinda fall into my lap and i'm weak. i still have all the turbo cis parts and i'm sure that i'll run into antoher rabbit at somepoint cause i allways do. when that happens i'll cis-t that one.


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

Yea, i might be in the same boat as well.. haha
I found a 2.0 GTI engine with harness/ecu from a 96' for 300 bucks! I might just swap the bottom end and still turbo, because i just dont have time to do the wiring for it. 
Nothing like keeping all the extra 2.0 parts for when i do have the time..


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*

yeah man, go for it. whatever you do with you cis turbo you can allways use a good aba.
i took out the 1.8 in my rabbit and i'm in the process of getting the head work and all the seals replaced on the aba, after that i'll work on the MSS and then i shoudl be good to go.
i'm allways in the market for another rabbit thgough, and when i find one i'll allready have all the crap for cis-t.


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

How was wiring up the MS ******?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Satur9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Satur9* »_How was wiring up the MS ******?

i haven't gotten it yet. it's the last thing on the list of stuff to do. the seasl and the head work need to come first and then the MSS. i will def. let you know though when i get it done.
heres a pic of the beast when it was ics-t.


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (******)*

hey guys i just got my car running and i wanted to clearify which spot you hook up the WUR for boost. i tried both and the one that worked and made a differance was the *big one.....not the small one.*


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbobunny007* »_hey guys i just got my car running and i wanted to clearify which spot you hook up the WUR for boost. i tried both and the one that worked and made a differance was the *big one.....not the small one.*

You are going to have to retune your idle mixture to make it run right when you have it on the small one. 
I don't know who opened their inexperienced mouth about this subject, but it is the small one. You can take apart the WUR and see for yourself. 
If you put the vaccum on the small one, it will not idle without tuning. Here are some (bad) pictures.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*









Nipple closest to the block, very bad picture, sorry! I have anotherone in a second.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*









Small one has a barb for a tube. The reason you THINK it makes a difference is the large one is a vent on the other side of the "diaphragm" so that air pressure inside the regulator doesn't alter the fuel pressure.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*

If you still don't believe me, I can take it apart for you.















Those nipples are a really tight fit on the right side next to the distributor, it might be your line is getting pinched when you put it on the small one.


_Modified by realpower at 6:03 PM 12-17-2006_


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (realpower)*

Well I haven't really been in this forum much!
But here is some old pictures of my 8vT Scirocco! I was running CIS for 2 years 12 - 15psi with only the 4 CIS injectors, Audi 5000T WUR! I used a Wideband 02 for tuning and played around with timing often.








I still have a few parts left over from when I was into CIS. 
I really would like to sell the perfect power turbo fueler I picked up 2 years back! Someone here make me an offer on it!


----------



## Satur9 (Oct 23, 2003)

It sucks that i cant use the WUR that i have since i have CIS-E.. Grrrrr..


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_
You are going to have to retune your idle mixture to make it run right when you have it on the small one. 


hey i had to retune my car any way cause i used a mk2 intake manifold and a g60 tb!!!! so like i said i ran it both ways and when it was on the small one, when i hit boost it would break up then i put it on the big on and it boosted without any problems. when i get back home this weekend i will take a pick and a video. i have hoses on both of those ports. im not saying your wrong but thats how my car runs!!!


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbobunny007* »_
hey i had to retune my car any way cause i used a mk2 intake manifold and a g60 tb!!!! so like i said i ran it both ways and when it was on the small one, when i hit boost it would break up then i put it on the big on and it boosted without any problems. when i get back home this weekend i will take a pick and a video. i have hoses on both of those ports. im not saying your wrong but thats how my car runs!!! 

You may have a boost leak somewhere then. That will make it run rich, and when you have the WUR adding even more fuel, it can break up from running rich.
I have a 240t dizzy and the 5k WUR on mine and I think it is too rich. I may try to run it with the stock WUR.

Pull the line off completley and try to run it. It will probably run exactly the same as when its on the big port.



_Modified by realpower at 7:25 PM 12-18-2006_


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (realpower)*

yea it was running rich before cause i also tune it in by using the screw in the dizzy with a dwell meter. my egts are exactly where they sould be now. hey i think we are both correct.. like you said both ports might work. i took the off the big one and it ran ****ty. then i hooked the small one up and it ran the same but then when i hooked up the big one again and it was fine...i dont know ....i guess thats how it works on my car??? like i said ill take pics and video clips of it when i get back home(should be next week)

i dont have a 240t dizzy though so i know im not getting insain amounts of fuel.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

Hi Folks,
I'll be making a push this coming weekend to get my AWIC pump plumbed in... 
Looking forward to running my CIS system lean again LOL...
Peter


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Hi Folks,
I'll be making a push this coming weekend to get my AWIC pump plumbed in... 
Looking forward to running my CIS system lean again LOL...
Peter

Did you get a chance to run the new setup yet?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (realpower)*

un needed comment


_Modified by Residentevol at 7:29 PM 1-7-2007_


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

Well I didnt mean to be mean, but I got about 10 PM's from people calling me a liar and I was frustrated haha...










_Modified by realpower at 9:57 AM 1-8-2007_


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (realpower)*

sorry I deleted my comment because I didnt want to come off sounding mean either..it sounds like you know what your talking about and If you can help these guys getting things workin correctly then by all means do it....mine was never perfect and It was my first CIS car so I am by no means an expert on the subject...


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

anyway to make up for my rude reaction I talked to the moderator and got this post pulled out of the blackhole it was in the faq but came up "you are not authorized to view this forum" anyway this is a pretty good little thread if you have the time the link for it was CIS VOLVO FD
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=751684


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (Residentevol)*

here is a really ****ty video i took a night after i finished my cis set-up.
im going to try to take another this week. its hard to tell its a rabbit but it is. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX9C30Io6q8


----------



## roccodan666 (Jan 9, 2007)

Hi guys,what a great thread,I have just started to collect parts for a turbo job on my 2l Scirocco I will follow this very carefully hopefully with all this info it shouldn`t be too hard.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Residentevol)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Residentevol* »_anyway to make up for my rude reaction I talked to the moderator and got this post pulled out of the blackhole it was in the faq but came up "you are not authorized to view this forum" anyway this is a pretty good little thread if you have the time the link for it was CIS VOLVO FD
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=751684

Good job man, there is some great info in there.







for you.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

Turbobunny007, Watched your video bunny sounds good. How long have you had it running? can you post some engine bay pictures and info on your setup? I love CIS turbo cars, It's a lot harder to get CIS to work with FI then it is to rip it all out and go MS. Besides I think CIS just looks better with all the braided fuel lines and such. Good work man!


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

I just found this thread on how to use the 1.6 TD exhaust mani and turbo on 8V gas engines.

Official turbo diesel how-to swap post.
I'm not sure if someone already posted a link in this thread but I thought it mite be useful to us. 



_Modified by EuroKid83 at 5:27 PM 1-12-2007_


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

i
_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Turbobunny007, Watched your video bunny sounds good. How long have you had it running? can you post some engine bay pictures and info on your setup? I love CIS turbo cars, It's a lot harder to get CIS to work with FI then it is to rip it all out and go MS. Besides I think CIS just looks better with all the braided fuel lines and such. Good work man!

Ive had it running for about a 2 weeks but i had some things that came up so ive only driven it about 4 or 5 times. i will take pics on sunday and hopefully get a new video. its suposed to rain so i will get them up asap. im thinking of going MS next year i think.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbobunny007* »_i
Ive had it running for about a 2 weeks but i had some things that came up so ive only driven it about 4 or 5 times. i will take pics on sunday and hopefully get a new video. its suposed to rain so i will get them up asap. im thinking of going MS next year i think.

That's awesome man, I'm looking forward to some pictures.


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

here are some pics. a new video will come when the weater breaks. 
i still have to paint the intercooler pipes and a couple other parts.
















































shes alittle dirty!!


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

Hey guys i forgot that i had a copy of ETKA ver.5(the parts program that the dealership parts guys use). So i decided to look up the 83 Audi 5000 turbo and look at the WUR. I found that they connect the both of the side ports together. So i guess that means were both right on witch one you can use. The program wouldnt let me copy the diagram to another and my printer was out off in so i coulndt print it then scan it in....so i took some pics with my camera. I m not sure how well they are going to so up on here. But if you want i can email them too..then you would be able to zoom.








these, i tried to get closer 
























they used the this WUR from 80 to 84 then in 85 theswitched to one without the small port. Hopefully this will help add to this post.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

Good Deal! I actually ended up taking mine off, as the 240t distributor seems to be sufficent for about 10 lbs of boost, and the WUR was just making it unnecessarily rich at everything but full throttle at 18 lbs. 

They really couldve reduced the hose length by a lot according to that diagram. I never understood the german over-engineering lust.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

Looks good turbobunny, do you have any A/F ratio numbers under boost? Are you using a boost sensitive WUR?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

I found this to be interesting, something I may try.
CIS-E for more fuel, more power, and more chicks  


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 11:35 PM 1-16-2007_


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

i dont have any a/f #'s yet cause i need to order a wideband. i need a whole bunch of gauges.(all i have is an egt and boost) So i tunned my idle in with a dwell meter but if i get the wideband i thing i can get allitle more power. i am running the audi 5k WUR. You can go cis-e, i mean its easy to splice some wire and integrate it into your original fuse box.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

About the Audi 5K WUR, I personally have never used one on my car so I can't say much about it. I like the Volvo 240 Turbo WUR's because they are boost and load sensitive. In a turbo car this is good because even before you get into boost the WUR is already lowering the control pressure. As boost comes on it lowers control pressure even further. I'm not 100% sure about this but I don't believe the Audi unit is load sensitive. Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_About the Audi 5K WUR, I personally have never used one on my car so I can't say much about it. I like the Volvo 240 Turbo WUR's because they are boost and load sensitive. In a turbo car this is good because even before you get into boost the WUR is already lowering the control pressure. As boost comes on it lowers control pressure even further. I'm not 100% sure about this but I don't believe the Audi unit is load sensitive. Can anyone confirm this?

I believe they are the same and they do both load sensitive and boost. They are both bosch fuel units used in the same years but i havent looked at the part #'s yet. 
Eurokid83 can you give me the part # for your volvo WUR and the part # off your volvo 240t dizzy?
here is another godd website on the volvo side of things. not sure if anyone has seen it or not??
http://www.k-jet.org/


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

I'll throw up some part numbers ASAP. Good website by the way, lots of good CIS info.


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

For the last two days this thread has helped me a lot on my future 87 GTi turbo project. I have a question though, Almost all of these projects are with CIS and not with CIS-e which is what I have. Will most of the parts that the CIS cars are using work with CIS-e? (like Audi or Volvo WUR and a boost retard canister for the dizz and items like that)


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_For the last two days this thread has helped me a lot on my future 87 GTi turbo project. I have a question though, Almost all of these projects are with CIS and not with CIS-e which is what I have. Will most of the parts that the CIS cars are using work with CIS-e? (like Audi or Volvo WUR and a boost retard canister for the dizz and items like that)

The WUR would not work, but the boost canister will. CIS-e is even easier to get fuel out of. Look at Mike's Callaway site, and he will tell you how to get that fuel out of CIS-e. (It needs a resistor to make it richen)


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

This mite help you as well.
CIS-E for more fuel, more power, and more chicks


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_The WUR would not work, but the boost canister will. CIS-e is even easier to get fuel out of. Look at Mike's Callaway site, and he will tell you how to get that fuel out of CIS-e. (It needs a resistor to make it richen)

So I can not use a Volvo or Audi WUR. I heard that you can not "tune" CIS-e to sense boost and enrich fuel. I had just planned on putting the WUR on my car. You mentioned that it was easy to get more fuel out of CIS-e but how? 


_Modified by Rallyfreak202 at 5:30 AM 1-25-2007_


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_This mite help you as well.
CIS-E for more fuel, more power, and more chicks  

Heres the info you are looking for....


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*

I read the link above 4 times and this is basically learned from it;
"Some early turbo kits (Legend) used a pressure switch connected to the coolant temperature switch on the side of the head to increase fuel enrichment.
If we take Techtonics circuit and trigger it off of a boost pressure switch, we can extend the capabilities of the fuel system."
So there is not a direct or easy way to get more fuel and a unit that can sense boost right with CIS-e? I looked at Autotech's power module for CIS-e but it does not read boost. Do you think I should convert to CIS so I can use an Audi or Volvo WUR?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

Is this your goal? To run CIS? Or are you just thinking cheap and simple?
I would do it the way that it is done on that website with CIS-e.
If you don't want to do that it wouldn't be hard to swap in standard CIS, and you might as well put in the 240t fuel dizzy and WUR.
Honestly if you were going as far as swapping out your fuel injection, stand alone might be for you, as it might be as cheap.


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_Is this your goal? To run CIS? Or are you just thinking cheap and simple?
I would do it the way that it is done on that website with CIS-e.
If you don't want to do that it wouldn't be hard to swap in standard CIS, and you might as well put in the 240t fuel dizzy and WUR.
Honestly if you were going as far as swapping out your fuel injection, stand alone might be for you, as it might be as cheap.

My goal is too have my 8v turbocharged as cheap and easy as possible. I thought it would be easier to use CIS-e but still can not find a way to get it to read boost. Stand alone would be a lot more wiring and programming correct? I will be doing this on a budget and trying to find the easiest route. Any suggestions?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
My goal is too have my 8v turbocharged as cheap and easy as possible. I thought it would be easier to use CIS-e but still can not find a way to get it to read boost. Stand alone would be a lot more wiring and programming correct? I will be doing this on a budget and trying to find the easiest route. Any suggestions? 

CIS doesn't have to read boost... It measures airflow weather its going through a turbo first or not. Thats the beauty of it.
With the 5k WUR its really not sensing boost, just lowering the fuel pressure enough to let the airplate rise to get more fuel. The techtonics module probably does something similar.


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_
CIS doesn't have to read boost... It measures airflow weather its going through a turbo first or not. Thats the beauty of it.
With the 5k WUR its really not sensing boost, just lowering the fuel pressure enough to let the airplate rise to get more fuel. The techtonics module probably does something similar.

So if I understand correctly I could use my stock CIS-e and turbo it with low boost correct? Would it be worth it?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
If we take Techtonics circuit and trigger it off of a boost pressure switch, we can extend the capabilities of the fuel system."

By this he means adding a pressure switch to the circuit.


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
By this he means adding a pressure switch to the circuit.

So when a pressure switch is added, it will sense pressure and supply more fuel? What circuit is this on? Do you know anyone who has done this and how well it works? I am full of questions.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_
CIS doesn't have to read boost... It measures airflow weather its going through a turbo first or not.

I'm gona have to disagree with this. Take a look at the Audi and Volvo turbo cars, they had boost sensitive WUR's for a reason. If you were to turbo a car without that WUR your just gona melt your pistons down. The sensor plate itself has no way of knowing the air flowing through it is going to be pressurized, so it can't deliver the extra fuel needed for proper combustion. Think of the WUR as a messenger, when it senses boost pressure it says "Hey sensor plate get off your lazy floating ass and lift higher" thus delivering more fuel.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
So when a pressure switch is added, it will sense pressure and supply more fuel? What circuit is this on? Do you know anyone who has done this and how well it works? I am full of questions.

If you look on that CIS-E website there's a diagram.


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
I'm gona have to disagree with this. Take a look at the Audi and Volvo turbo cars, they had boost sensitive WUR's for a reason. If you were to turbo a car without that WUR your just gona melt your pistons down. The sensor plate itself has no way of knowing the air flowing through it is going to be pressurized, so it can't deliver the extra fuel needed for proper combustion. Think of the WUR as a messenger, when it senses boost pressure it says "Hey sensor plate get off your lazy floating ass and lift higher" thus delivering more fuel.

Ok this WUR thing makes sense now. 

_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
If you look on that CIS-E website there's a diagram.

I looked at the diagram but don't see how adding a circuit will make cis-e sense pressurized air.


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

the WUR on cis(k-lambda) was replaced on cis-e(ke-lambda) by the diferential pressure regulator. Its located on the side of your fuel dizzy. That plug is where you hook up the techtonics or autotech power modules to trick the computer to give fuel under full throttle. Yes cis-e doesnt have a boost senseing tool like the WUR or a rising rate FPR.
Im sure that low boost will be fine and even up to 15 psi would be fine on your cis-e. so i would just buy the autotech or the techtonics power module and you will be fine.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

so i'm having a problem with my cis-e turbo setup. when accelerating, it hesitates all the way up to when i shift, sometimes i cant even get it to run at all and it just stutters and dies. any help you guys could give e would be great because i have no idea what i'm doing. ithought it might just be the timing was off or somthing...but right now i really dont know


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
I looked at the diagram but don't see how adding a circuit will make cis-e sense pressurized air.









The circuit diagram is of the TT fuel enrichment module if i'm not mestaken. He's talking about adding a pressure switch to the TT module, not the CIS-E itself.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

does anyone have a diagram of a proper cis-e turbo setup? like vacuum lines and such? i have a nasty boost leak or vacuum leak of some sort and its messing my day up really bad


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbogtwill* »_does anyone have a diagram of a proper cis-e turbo setup? like vacuum lines and such? i have a nasty boost leak or vacuum leak of some sort and its messing my day up really bad


Post a good pick of your motor and matbe someone can tell from that


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

how do i post pictures?


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*

thats what it looks like. would eveyone suggest getting the volvo distributor? and how easy is it to install?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*

The Volvo 240 FD is K-Lambda, it won't work on your car.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

i dont understand...k-lamda?


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*

k-lambda is cis and ke-lambda is cis-e. have you pressure test your intercooler pipes??? check all the vacume hoses??? hey turbogtwill that setup looks good.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

thanks..i want to clean it up and have y buddies at http://www.extremeturbosystems.com build me a new intercooler setup....i enjoy the way everything is setup..just because its different. i get crazy stares when i pop the hood..or driving down the street with the bov.....i enjoy it very much


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*

Are you guys saying an Audi 5000 fuel distributor wont work on a CISE car then? I thought late 80's audi cars were CIS-E as well?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*

Why would you do that? The point of the 240t dizzy is that it is 6 cyls worth of fuel with 4 injector outlets.

_Quote, originally posted by *wrathchild20* »_Are you guys saying an Audi 5000 fuel distributor wont work on a CISE car then? I thought late 80's audi cars were CIS-E as well?


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*

Ahh nevermind, its a modified vw distributor with audi injectors. My bad.


_Modified by wrathchild20 at 11:33 PM 2-3-2007_


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

so is there anything i can do to get more fuel?...i need to get an air fuel ratio gauge...this thing is starting to scare me...i was afraid when my buddies turbo honda leaned out.....bye bye engine....i was actually a little sad....a lot of time and effort went into that car


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*

That should have been the first thing you bought with your turbokit. Not only do i have an A/F gauge for when it goes in, i'm gonna buy a wideband as well. Nothing is more important than these 2 things, no matter what you're turboing.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*

Honestly, I beat the tar out of my car running 12lbs lean detonating. It still runs today. These little motors are tough, but don't go too nuts till you have the fuel in the ballpark.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*

i bought the car already turbocharged...and now i want to uprgrade to a 2.0 16v aba with some big gnarly snail attached to its ass with an anti lag system....i heard you can pick up a tommy makanin edition turbo for around $900


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbogtwill* »_i bought the car already turbocharged...and now i want to uprgrade to a 2.0 16v aba with some big gnarly snail attached to its ass with an anti lag system....i heard you can pick up a tommy makanin edition turbo for around $900

haha turbo lag? you are going to destroy your exhaust and turbo in a short time if you run turbo lag on the street. You know how they work right? The tommy makanin turbo was just a regular evo 6 turbo I think. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
haha turbo lag? you are going to destroy your exhaust and turbo in a short time if you run turbo lag on the street. You know how they work right? The tommy makanin turbo was just a regular evo 6 turbo I think. Someone correct me if I am wrong. 

i thought it had an anit-lag syste on it...i just thought it was cool....i found a vr6 for $250 with a blown headgasket...i wanna tear it all apart and build it completely...that would be a fun turbo project


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbogtwill* »_
i thought it had an anit-lag syste on it...i just thought it was cool....i found a vr6 for $250 with a blown headgasket...i wanna tear it all apart and build it completely...that would be a fun turbo project

And if you do that, you will not be running CIS.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_
And if you do that, you will not be running CIS.

exactly...i think cis is cool...but i dont really know my way that well around mechanical fuel injection. i figure this is a good way to learn....but its not exactly what i want in the future


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*

Anyone got any new and exciting turbo projects going on?


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Anyone got any new and exciting turbo projects going on?

Soon I will be buying parts for my CIS-e turbo project. I'm eather going with a TD turbo and manifold or t3 mani and turbo. Depends on which I can get the cheapest. If I use a TD turbo and manifold can I use the DP too?


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Yeah I should be starting my CISE project within the next couple months. Using an audi 5000 turbo manifold with the 5th exhaust runner hacked off, audi 5000/VW fuel distributor with Audi injectors that are good up to 200 hp. JDM front mount, 2.5 inch piping. Have a t3 flange for the audi manifold, with a t3 out of a daytona...could use a k26 as well if i want to, because the audi manifold came made for k26s.
I'm gonna buy a low compression head gasket from EIPtuning to lower the compression to 9:1, and run between 6-12psi..depending on what kind of condition the engine I have is in right now, gonna be doing compression and leak-down tests as soon as i get 'er back on the road. I'm definitely gonna buy an ABA bottom end sometime in the near future. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by wrathchild20 at 6:25 PM 2-14-2007_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_ If I use a TD turbo and manifold can I use the DP too?

You won't be able to use the DP because in order to adapt the TD turbo and mani it has to be installed up-side-down. This will also require you to "re-clock" the turbo.


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_You won't be able to use the DP because in order to adapt the TD turbo and mani it has to be installed up-side-down. This will also require you to "re-clock" the turbo.

What is re-clocking the turbo? Rotating it?


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

yeah there are bolts on the hot and cold side that if you loosen (not remove) you can rotate or clock the turbo in whatever position you need.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

quick question. how much would my entire engine and transmission be worth? an approximation. mine is the red one at the top of the page


_Modified by turbogtwill at 4:17 PM 2-19-2007_


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*

the motor is worth $25 if it is stock.
The whole turbo setup is worth +-$1000 ish.


----------



## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: (realpower)*

25 bucks?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (turbogtwill)*

Proly like three bills.


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

i sold my cis turbo setup and transmission for 1000, plus i get a high compression 8v free to put in it so i can sell it


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

anyone ever put a gt series garret on a cis car thats what im up against need to run coolant lined to it i was thinking of using the heater core hoses any input would be nice anyone ever done this


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

Hey, guys. As you know I plan to do a cheap turbo build on my 8v with CIS-e. I've been reading the thread below and almost EVERYONE is bashing on how it is such a waste of time and money to turbo a cis/cis-e car. I want to do it but not if it is a waste of time. Bring my spirits up.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

Well, here's what i've gone through.
I had a 2l 16v sitting in my driveway that I paid $1200 for, was all ready to have it wired in (wiring isnt my forte) when I realised that I hadnt done much research before hand, and that it would be a bitch to wire in. I then found a guy that was selling an audi/vw fuel distributor with audi injectors which worked just fine to take care of of fueling on his CIS-E fox.
Reason 1: Money is limited to me, 8vs are cheaper to replace, and I have already had experience doing so. You're looking at only a few hundred for a 8v motor, opposed to $600+ to replace a 16v.
2: 16 valves cost more to fix, example: you break a timing belt in a 16v and say bye bye engine. 8v you spin a timing belt and everything spins freely
3: I like the torque 8vs have down low.
I hate to say but turboing a car is never gonna be cheap, once you start adding stuff like this to your motor, it will definitely lower your engine's life expectancy. With CISE, its more of a tuning issue, and you MUST MONITOR your A/F ratio constantly. This means not cheaping out, and going out to buy a wideband for $300. If you're engine is running either too lean or too rich, say byebye engine.
I have yet to start my project though, but should be within the next month or 2. If you want to turbo an 8v, dont be expecting too much power-wise, there's only so much power an 8v....if not built... (and CISE) can handle. My goal right now with a P&P'd head is to be running about 10-12psi on a 9:1 compression, hoping to get me between 170-190hp. My car is completely gutted out with a rollcage, and I think my power to weight ratio will definitely be sufficient for me.
So all in all, I ended up selling that 16v for $1200, and have used all that money for this turbo setup, ended up saving the thousands to have that engine wired in, and will end up with 40+hp in the end.
Anyway thats just my 2 cents. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by wrathchild20 at 6:48 PM 2-21-2007_


_Modified by wrathchild20 at 6:49 PM 2-21-2007_


----------



## turbogtwill (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*

my turbo 8v was pushing around 170ish....twas fun..now its going into a dropped on the ground mk2 ghetto jetta...it shall be tight


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_Hey, guys. As you know I plan to do a cheap turbo build on my 8v with CIS-e. I've been reading the thread below and almost EVERYONE is bashing on how it is such a waste of time and money to turbo a cis/cis-e car. I want to do it but not if it is a waste of time. Bring my spirits up.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1

People are going to have different opinions about CIS. Truth be told CIS is primitive compared to EFI, that doesn't mean you can't make it work. At this point in I know of one person making at least 200 crank HP with CIS and a Lyshom supercharger, which isn't easy but it can be done. Just do a little more research, if your on a budget CIS can be made to work. If not go megasquirt.


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_anyone ever put a gt series garret on a cis car thats what im up against need to run coolant lined to it i was thinking of using the heater core hoses any input would be nice anyone ever done this

Im running a garrett T04e and it is watercooled to. I chose not to run coolant through mine cause all it is going to do is make you coolant hotter after it comes out (making your car temp alittle hotter). its kinda like the stock oil coolers on 8v,16vs....all they do is make your car run hotter!! thats why they should be removed and or replaced with a oil coolerr kit! But yes if you want to run it through it i would use those heater core hoses.


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

This is a great post!
My plan to lower compression on my turbo 1.8 JH is to use G60 rods & pistons. Will these drop in or does the block have to be bored and honed?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (racehaus)*

It's best to check clearances when switching pistons from block to block. Then a hone is wise, but I have gotten away with just scuffing the cylinders with emery cloth to set the rings.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey just got a turbo gonna build a manifold has anyone had a bad experiencve welding a flange unto a stock maifold some help would be appreciated im running a garret gt25 and the only manifolds i seen have a t3 flange


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

it's going to be worth it in the lond run to get a turbo manifold. you can get an APT knock off for like 150 on ebay and the quality is good.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

the only thing i was worried about was spending 150 just to destroy the manifold and hack up the flange i mocked it all up and welded my flange unto a cali emissions digifant manifold (california emmisions digifants had a bolt on down pipe flange)and it seems strong the only thing is i dont know how strong it will be when its hot i dont want it to break


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

if your looking for long term you should look into buying a cast manifold or getting a log style one made. like is aid man, 150 bucks is a small price to pay for a decent manifold. you don't want to have to remove the exhaust manifold more than once.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah thanks for the advice bought a mani off of eba puttin


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

You can weld a turbo inlet flange onto a cast iron manifold no problem. That's what the "Steve Langford" kits are. I've done it myself, and also repaired cast iron manifolds successfully before.
You need to preheat the cast iron to ~400F (an hour in the oven, on the grill or with a torch). Make sure that you clean all the surface rust off beforehand, and bevel the edge of the manifold that you are going to weld to get good penetration.
Use a cast iron specific welding rod (high in Nickel, AKA "Ni-rod"). DOn't try to weld it all at once - "stitch" it in stages, and it helps to beat it with a hammer as you go (I don't remember the reason)
It will hold up jsut fine, as long as you are a competent welder.
Also, shameless plug for my CIS turbo kit and exhaust - price is negotiable








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3101178


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah i welded it is is nice and seems strong just need alittle more help got a dual port vac canister where do i hook up the vacuum line and also got an audi 5k wur where does the vacuum line go on that any help would be great also i think im gonna get rid of the air auxillary valve its broke anyways has anyone ever done this


----------



## 91gl (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: (racehaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *racehaus* »_This is a great post!
My plan to lower compression on my turbo 1.8 JH is to use G60 rods & pistons. Will these drop in or does the block have to be bored and honed?

jh already comes with a c/r of 8:1. if you put g60 pistons, youll get a c/r of 6:1 http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (91gl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *91gl* »_
jh already comes with a c/r of 8:1. if you put g60 pistons, youll get a c/r of 6:1 http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

that doesn't seem right.


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (******)*

I dont see why you would wanna have anything less than 8:1 regardless. Unless you're pushing 30psi


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yea i dont know cause the air aux thing just pulls air intothe intake manifold to raise idle when its cold but i dont wanna have any problems on decel i dont want it to hunt or anything so im also wondering if its worth it to get rid of the charcoal canister and evap system any help there?


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

do you have to hook up to the advance side of the distributor (dual port as well does anyone know?


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by *91gl* »_
jh already comes with a c/r of 8:1. if you put g60 pistons, youll get a c/r of 6:1 http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_
that doesn't seem right. 

JH head comes 8.5:1... With an 81mm bore and a 86.4 stroke... The g60 has 8:1 with an 81.5mm bore and the same stock so how would you get 6:1 c/r out of that??

_Modified by 85roccoZ400 at 1:50 PM 3-13-2007_


_Modified by 85roccoZ400 at 1:50 PM 3-13-2007_


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

Anyone interested in a perfectpower turbo fueler??


----------



## RiverBunny (Jun 18, 2001)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

tell me more acout this perfect powerfueler


----------



## RiverBunny (Jun 18, 2001)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

Tell me more acout this perfect powerfueler...


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (RiverBunny)*

TF - TURBO FUELLER 
Applications
The TF unit is one of our older Piggy Back units. It is no longer in production, but for the benefit of our customers who still use these units, we provide the list of features, wiring diagrams and software downloads below. 
The TF unit operates up to 2 independent injectors outputs. The injectors can go in to the manifold or in to the throttle body before the butterfly. It enhances the operation of any engine management units, by adding fuel in mid or top range under precise programmable conditions. In special applications, it can retard the ignition. 
FEATURES 
Works with any existing fuel injection system and ignition mapping unit. 
Fuel settable to RPM and Absolute Manifold Pressure (AMP) 16 RPM map points (FRPM) and 16 manifold map points (FAMP). 
Fuel compensation for Air temperature. 16 map points from -20 to +130 degree Celsius. 
AMP up to 1.5 bar positive boost, 2.5 bar absolute pressure. 
Up to 10000 RPM. Above 10000 RPM the last reading is repeated. 
Optional ignition retard according to RPM and AMP, depending on coil drive. 
16 ignition RPM map points (IRPM) and 16 ignition manifold pressure map points (IAMP). 
Works on multicoil systems. Up to 4 ignition pickup points for 8 cylinder wasted spark ignition. 
Up to 4 ignition outputs for 8 cylinder engines. The inputs are repeated to the outputs (feed through) if the mapping is zero. 
2 injector outputs. Each output can drive 4 x 16 ohm injectors or 4 x 4 ohm injectors, or 2 x 1 Ohm injectors. 
Copy protected. The TF software is protected by fuses. 
Map protection. The fuel and ignition maps are linked to your PC. No one can copy your maps, and the end customer can't change the setting. 
The unit is small and requires a minimum on wiring. 
All inputs are protected. 
Can trigger on positive (usual) or negative transition of input signals. 
Please note the following software files are zipped. Download Winzip at: http://www.winzip.com 
Please note all the manuals are in pdf. format. You can only view them with Adobe Acrobat Reader. Download Acrobat Reader at: http://www.adobe.com 
TF4 SOFTWARE
This version of tune software TF4 is compatible with all old versions of Turbo Fueller hardware delivered before June 1999. It will be superseded by TF. File size: 62kB zipped. Last update: 09/07/2001. Click on the following link
MANUAL
Download the complete Turbo Fueller manual with graphics here. File size: 408kB. Last update: 27/02/2001. Click on this link
COMPATIBILITY
The TF unit can trigger on any 12V signal. It has 4 ignition inputs, for 8 cylinder wasted spark application, and 4 ignition outputs. The trigger polarity can be set. It drives any ignition amplifier or trigger unit.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

I disassembled my callaway turbo car, and took bunches of pictures if anyone is interested in them. 
I will have a lot of stuff for sale soon.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*

Post a few pics man!


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

















































































In case you wanted to knwo the difference between a long and short runner manifold


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

noone know about the advance vacuum thing


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_do you have to hook up to the advance side of the distributor (dual port as well does anyone know?

By hooking up the vac. adv. it gives you a better driveablity since it will advance the timing in the cruise mode. With the dual port version it will retard the timing when under boost. I think it retards too soon but in the 70 and 80's that was all we had. If you could start to retard at about 6 lbs boost I think it would be the way to go, but it starts to retard as soon as boost is present and if I remember right, it has full retard at 6 lbs boost [too early for me].


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: (Butcher)*

awesome thread, soo much useful stuff in here...
I'm starting the turbo project soon, i'm using the steve langford ex mani and t3 turbo... 
anyone have pics of this setup mocked up??? 
I got a home made intercooler and piping kit from a fellow vortexter...
Wondering which way people are running the piping from the turbo to intercooler??? 
as it sits now it is pointing towards the block and would have to make a 90degree turn without hitting the block to the pass. side and o intercooler...
i'll be on here OFTEN talk to you soon


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

bump


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey got my car up and running will post some pics soon fast as schnell but car started to idle real high yesterday for some reason its at like 3000 but the throttle is closed ne one got any ideas


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Check for some Vacuum leaks... Have you check timing?? What is your current timing at?


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

haven't checked with timing light buti set it up at stock with the marks


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

when i first started the car it idled at liker 1500-2000 but after a couple rips it idles at like 3 -4 i think its a couple of little thing on top of each other like the timing is advanced and there are a couple of vacuum leaks but im kinda confused


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

when i did mine i replaced all the vaccum lines while i was puting it together and it saved me a crap load of pain in the end. it's allways better to go the extra mile and replace old stuff then try and figure out whats wrong after the fact.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey thanks for all the help turns out it was the pcv hose it was kinked and was causing a whole slew of problems thanks for the help will post up pics asap


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

did anyone ever have a problem with there car bogging down whenever opening the throttle it will fall way down and then it recovers


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_did anyone ever have a problem with there car bogging down whenever opening the throttle it will fall way down and then it recovers

Only when flat shifting at the drag strip. I immagine that whatever that problem is can be tuned out.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*

hehe but seriously though car idles fine but for some reason when raised off base idle it will fail to re idle


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

maybe it's a fueling issue. maybe when you raise it off of idle it leans out too much or it fuels too much and floods it.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

When i lean out the co it does seem to get better


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

how lean can you get with that co screw can you go dangerously lean? im running 8 psi


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

i have the diverter valve piped into the airbox wher the pcv used to go could that be lifting the plate or something?


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

ne help will be appreciated


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_i have the diverter valve piped into the airbox wher the pcv used to go could that be lifting the plate or something?

You need to re-route the DV between the air flow sensor plate and the inlet of the turbo, not into the air box.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

well last night i found that my diverter valve was leaking air so i had to use a stock one and im gonna rebuild that leaky forge dv after i fixed that i got loads better


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_
You need to re-route the DV between the air flow sensor plate and the inlet of the turbo, not into the air box.

Jervwjetta84.. Thats what I told you in IM.. Because when you DV open it forces the plunger to open completely... here is how mine was pipe back in..


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

nice setup but found me dv was leakin that helped a little put new gas in it that also helped a bit so


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

car rips so much better run lean though


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

Man that's clean, first time I've seen the Weber TB on a turbo CIS set-up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_car rips so much better run lean though








that shouldn't be the case with the WUR... I will have to dig up in my notes so more information for you... Is the Front vaccum port unplugged?

_Quote, originally posted by *EuroKid83* »_Man that's clean, first time I've seen the Weber TB on a turbo CIS set-up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks man... I was big into CIS turbo a couple of years ago... My setup had many tweaks.


----------



## RiverBunny (Jun 18, 2001)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

Any chance i could get a close up of your TB cable set up. I am working on using a weber on my 16vt?


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

why is it supposed to be plugged because it is unplugged the only one i have connected to vacuum is the small on eon the right side all others are open


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

i noticed your front port is blocked off


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

Nice Car though You Got Both Looks And Speed My Jetta Is Fast As Hell But Its Primered


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

what do those other ports do? on the 5k wur


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

I see you guys are doing a great job of keeping this thread alive, keep it up! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

no problem lots of info


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

I'm going to throw this out there again... 
*FS: Perfect Power Turbo Fuel $180*


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

posts pics of the fueler man ill buy it!


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

I'll take some pictures tonight... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah dude lookin for more boost!!!!


----------



## 1st_mk1 (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_Use a cast iron specific welding rod (high in Nickel, AKA "Ni-rod"). DOn't try to weld it all at once - "stitch" it in stages, and it helps to *beat it with a hammer as you go (I don't remember the reason)* 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3101178
 
You need to tap the weld to remove the slag, gives you a clean surface to weld to again.


_Modified by 1st_mk1 at 2:56 PM 3-27-2007_


----------



## 1st_mk1 (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

Edit:For double post










_Modified by 1st_mk1 at 2:55 PM 3-27-2007_


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

Bump For Volvo Fuel Distributor And Audi 5k Warm Up Regulator Purchased On Ebay For $52.00 total


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Picture will be up tonight


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

car still runs great i dont think it is lean i think my air fuel gauge is a pile how accurate are narrow band air fuel gauges and when are they accurate?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_car still runs great i dont think it is lean i think my air fuel gauge is a pile how accurate are narrow band air fuel gauges and when are they accurate?


They work for ****. I trust my foot and ear over my narrow band.


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (realpower)*

CIS with NB 02 is a bad combo... 
But your not running high boost... Before you do turn it up get a WB 02


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah do you have a wideband maybe we should meet up will give you cash to use it!!!


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

The only wideband I have is in my car... Doesn't have a read out.. And would be a pain in the ass to un-wire


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

be worth it for me


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

just kiddin man! me and my brother wanna split the innovative lm1 because you can clip onto the tailpipe, but the only thing is they are big dollars


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

back to the top


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_I'm going to throw this out there again... 
*FS: Perfect Power Turbo Fuel $180*


*Page 18 OWN3D*


_Modified by 85roccoZ400 at 10:49 AM 4-4-2007_


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_
Jervwjetta84.. Thats what I told you in IM.. Because when you DV open it forces the plunger to open completely... here is how mine was pipe back in..









Clean set-up you have there! Nice touch with the Weber








I was wondering, with regular cis are any of you out there using a knock box? Is it necessary? I have dual port canister already and my crane ignition has a boost retard module.


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (racehaus)*

Thanks I tried to make the bay look clean... Simply because there was a guy who said you can't make a CIS bay look good








I'm not sure he ever say my bay but I'm sure it would have shut him up.. 
I basically length or shorten every wire in the two harness... 
I wish when I was CIS I had a boost retard module like the Crane unit or even the MSD 6BTM.. 
I was able to manage 12-15psi, but it wasn't as save as I would have liked











_Modified by 85roccoZ400 at 11:59 AM 4-4-2007_


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Hey Euro, are you using a knock box on standard cis?


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_Thanks I tried to make the bay look clean... Simply because there was a guy who said you can't make a CIS bay look good








I'm not sure he ever say my bay but I'm sure it would have shut him up.. 
I basically length or shorten every wire in the two harness... 
I wish when I was CIS I had a boost retard module like the Crane unit or even the MSD 6BTM.. 
I was able to manage 12-15psi, but it wasn't as save as I would have liked









_Modified by 85roccoZ400 at 11:59 AM 4-4-2007_

You should post a pic on that cis hater guys forehead








"I basically length or shorten every wire in the two harness... "
Wire of the knock box?


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (racehaus)*

Sorry nope I wasn't running a Knock box... 
I was talking about the engine harness and the harness that the headlight are on.


----------



## GTiVR6Banger (Aug 16, 2006)

Hey everybody I was wondering if the set up Im preparing is gonna be good. I hope i don't get bashed for not ready through the pages but i don't get enough internet access to be able to read the thread all the way through.
The set-up I have so far is...
-T3 Turbo off of a Turbo'd Omni
-MSD igition
-1.8T 20v side mount

I'm looking for an FMU for the car, and I getting the piping custom done by a local shop. If u could just give me a quick FYI on a basic 1.8 8v CIS turbo set-up I'd greatly appreciate it.
I have a 1.8l 8v CIS in my '87 Jetta


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

well i got my setup car runs great i got a garrett gt25 2.5 dp 2.25 exhaust a dual port canister audi wur and volvo fuel distributor and i run 15 psi car is fast as hell and loads of fun 
Youre car has a knock sensor and alot higher compresion then miner though so you might wanna invest in a vacuum canister with retard so you start to retard when spoolin if you decide to go with an audi 5k turbo wur make sure it is genuine before you pay for it


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

also im running the 20vt intercooler as a side mount as well not to effecient though


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

Hey guys, going to use an ebay catch can with my set-up. Some say go with 15mm fitting, some say 9mm.
What would be best for us CIS 8V folk?


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

15mm for sure my car hads loads of problems because of a restricted pcv system


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

bump back to the top where this forum belongs!!!!


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

cis turbo like whoa


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey did you notice a difference between the wber tb and srtck?
i have a big tb on mine dont know what stock is loke


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Any of you boosted CIS folks planning on dynoing this summer?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (racehaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *racehaus* »_Hey Euro, are you using a knock box on standard cis?









No.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey just workin on my car this weekend found that it was running fairly lean on stock cis at wide open throttle. I am running a 1.8 8v cis garret gt25 and side mount audi 5k wur and dual port vac. so i came up with an idea basically i modified a bracket and wide open throttle switch from a mk2 and wirde it into the cold start valve so when i hit wide open throttle the cold start valve would operate works great since the fuel is there all time!
just thought i would share my findings.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

does anyone have an idea on testing a warm up regulator my audi 5k one was not helping with the lean issue at all!!


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

I have contemplated on using a Hobbs switch instead of the WOT switch on my project. Have the Hobbs set-to 6psi or so so I get extra fuel a little earlier than WOT.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_does anyone have an idea on testing a warm up regulator my audi 5k one was not helping with the lean issue at all!!

Was it hooked up correctly? also what FD are you using?


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah its hooked up correctly im using a stock one for now my volvo 240t distributor arrives tommorrow


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah i was going to invest in a hobbs switch soon but first im gonna switch to the 240t distributor i think i've maxed out the stock distributor then ill do the similar scenerio to you.
Just had one more quick question when that cold start valve or fifth injector operates does it steal fuel from the other injectors because it appears to be in the same chambe as the others also how does a cis control unit control the mixture can the computer manipulate the frequency valve?


----------



## gli_ryan (Nov 12, 2005)

after looking through almost every page ( i got tired of looking) is there anyone running a 16v 2.0 CIS motronic with boost, either with the CIS or with stand alone?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (gli_ryan)*

/\ Not that I know of but it can be done if you lower the CR.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey what kind of fuel mileage are you guys getting? i took m ine to work which is about 20 miles and i used like 3 gallons of gas dont know if im gonna make it home hehe


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Wow three gallons seems like a lot of fuel to drive 20 miles. Your gas mileage shouldn't change that much by adding a turbo. That's barely seven MPG. How much boost are you running? what fuel system?


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

yeah i went a total of 40 miles and used about 3 gallons of gas im running 10 psi on the stock distributor and my cold start valve opens when i hit wide open throttle


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey does anyone know where i can get a high flow fuel pump for our cars?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

the stock fuel pump allready flows alot.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

it does how much psi will it support im lookin for like 15-20


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

what did you guys do for the cold start valve on the volvo distributor my line wont reach?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

i can't remember what it put out as far as psi, but i do remember everyone saying it pushed more than enough. i also remember seeing someone saying that the rabbit fuel pump was so good it could be an upgrade for other cars. that was a while ago. check out the first couple of pages of this thread it might be in there.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_my cold start valve opens when i hit wide open throttle

That's your problem rite there, you should upgrade to a Volvo 240 turbo FD and WUR. The CSV isn't the best way to add fuel under boost.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah i just got my car ytogether after figuring out all the mass of fuel injector lines testing her out today got all three peices now volvo 240t fuel distribuytor audi 5k turbo wur and dual port vac can


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey does anyone out there have a probelm with the car leaning out real bad when they let off the gas what can be done abotu this


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

It should lean out when you let off the gas.


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (realpower)*

Yup you are always going to go lean when you let off the gas


----------



## Edifi (Jul 21, 2005)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

This thread was a great idea! There is alot of info to be pulled from everyone's post. For all you seasoned cis experts; I have been offered the turbo from a stock mk4 1.8t to put on my 8v. My rabbit was intended to be a daily driver that still made me smile. Now with this turbo in front of me I can't help myself. I have never performed such an upgrade but I am also somewhat logical with the mechanics of my car. What will I need in order to make the installation successful, as I want to learn every part of this and am very happy I finally have this chance with a dub.


----------



## Edifi (Jul 21, 2005)

*Re: (Edifi)*

Oh and be sure I am reading everyone's posts on this thread, but I figured I would post in the meantime since 19 pages of posts takes me a while to read


----------



## RabbitFink (Mar 24, 2007)

*Re: (Edifi)*

if you want to do a proper job of it, get a book on turbocharging and buy 'bosch fuel injection and engine management' published by bently. Otherwise it appears a lot of people around here are having good luck just throwing on the turbo and crossing their fingers.


----------



## Edifi (Jul 21, 2005)

*Re: (RabbitFink)*

that would be awesome thanks alot!! I was at a meet last night and I was told that the K03 has a different flow than what would be needed with an 8v, Therefore I would be kicking myself after going through all the work of getting that turbo to work and keep my daily driver


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_it does how much psi will it support im lookin for like 15-20

The stock fuel pump will handle more than 20 psi of boost. although i dought that the fuel dizzy will be able to supply the fuel for that boost!! They offer our inline fuel pumps as upgrades for high hp import turbo motors and even in turbo vr's.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (turbobunny007)*

got my car together with the volvo fuel distributor and turned boost up to 14 but car leans out bad i think the fuel pump cannot push enough volume of fuel, (when i say this i am refering to my air fuel ratio gauge by the way) who out there actually has the volvo fuel distributor on there car? im gonna try to put a new fuel pump on the car i think thats a safe place to start i tried to do a pressure test but i dont have the correct adapter for my gauge set


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

You could to a volume flow test... Also make sure when the pump is running you have good voltage at the pump.
When have 14v you will flow 10-25% more fuel than if your at 12-11v..
Peter Tong has proved this on one of his Dynos...


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

i agree, i would definatly check the voltage at the pump!! but i still dont think it is the pump. I think it is the feul dizzy not giving enough feul pressure at high boost. but hey you can buy a feul pump voltage booster from MSD. it retails at.$239 or just get a universal inline walbro 225 lph for around $139


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

the only thing that concerns me is raising the fuel pressure can cause a bunch of problems but i am going to put a pump in it its 23 years old probably starting to fail


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

CIS needs more pressure than a walbro 225 can supply. However, what the audi 5k WUR does is LOWER the CONTROL PRESSURE, which lets the plate rise higher on the fuel distributor, which lets more fuel through. Raising CIS fuel pressure is marginal, but raising voltage will increase volume.


_Modified by realpower at 9:31 AM 4-16-2007_


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

i got a voltage booster i could put in but one of my good friends says raising the pressure is not gonna


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

do anything


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

I'm alittle confused by what you wrote...
But I will agree with your friend... The pressure isn't going to change with a voltage booster... *however the volume flow rate will change* letting the system push more fuel at high rpms


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

basically what i wanna acomplish is to push more volume of fuel because just raising the pressure is not gonna do anything. if you look towards high flow pumps they are rated in liters per hour, how much fuel it can flow not how much pressure it creates pressure ultimately depends on the fuel pressure regulator or in our case control pressure regulator (warm up regulator). Also there was a factory tsb for the mark ones with fuel pupms losing there prime because they were being overworked so i dont know if boosting the voltage is the safest method anyways


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

If you want more volume.. keeping the pump voltage around 14v... This should flow you more fuel... 
The Bentely has a pretty simple fuel pump volume test that you could do...
Run the volume test the way it is.
Then hook up the booster and run the test again.
You will be suprised what 2v will give you..


_Modified by 85roccoZ400 at 10:04 AM 4-16-2007_


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

yeah i'll just have to try it and see what i can come up with also i might have to try swapping my audi 5k wur cause im not to sure it is working correctly.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

has anyone put a fuel pump voltage booster in a mark 1 where should i tie it in?


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

bump


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_has anyone put a fuel pump voltage booster in a mark 1 where should i tie it in?

Peter Tong


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

got my car all back together my fuel pump runs at 14.1 volts and 16.5 when above 10 psi car runs loads better much fatser runs alot richer


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Hi, what did you use for voltage booster? 
Good info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif would like as much fueling as possible


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (racehaus)*

MSD sells ones


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_MSD sells ones

Don't suppose you have a link or part #


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (racehaus)*

http://store.streetspeedusa.com/4000.html


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

Ouchy $250!








I thought it was going to be $80 at most
Do you feel it is worth it?
Is that what you used?
That's 1/2 way to megasquirt


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (racehaus)*

I'm not running CIS anymore... I never used a Booster Pump and I had good luck...


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

I think I'll work it out without voltage booster http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
But I have lotto tickets in hand


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_http://store.streetspeedusa.com/4000.html

Thanks alot for the link http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have found this more affordable unit which I may go with:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

_Modified by racehaus at 3:12 PM 4-20-2007_
Hey guy says "This can be used on different kinds of vehicles - not just GM. The rpm signal it is expecting is GM but you can make it work with other vehicles too."








The MSD one:
NOTE: The Fuel Pump Booster cannot be used on fuel systems without a return line (pulse modulated pumps).
Are our fuel pumps pulse modulated?











_Modified by racehaus at 3:33 PM 4-20-2007_


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

i got the wsd booster box from my buddy but it was the only way i could get my car to run good air fuel wise i got all the basics
volvo 240t fuel distributor
audi 5k turbo wur
dual port vac can


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (racehaus)*

or fuel sytem does have a return and are not pulse modulated
if you have any questions let me know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
also i like that the msd box is adjustable at base it boosts an extra 1.5 volts when you hit 5 psi you can adjust it to rais voltage up to 22 extra volts when you hit 5 psi it is boost sensitive


----------



## racehaus (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Does the MSD use map sensor?
How were you below 14psi?
I was going to run water injection to compensate for running lean at top end. 
Spent too much on H20 and crane ign. I am very tempted but not committed as of yet to go another $250 on MSD VOlt Boost. 
Spending too much for a CIS set-up. THinking on just ditching H20/crane ign. both brand new in box and going mega.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (racehaus)*

Keepin it real. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (racehaus)*

hey it just has i vacuum port on it. as far as my car is lean according to my air fuel gauge but car runs damn good at 14 psi. I am starting to wonder if i wasted the money i spent on that narrow band air fuel gauge though. i adjusted the idle mixture on the fuel distributor until the car was running on like 3 cylinders and was puking black smoke out of the exhaust, and the gauge only said stoich so i think it is a wee bit inaccurate http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
yeah cis isn't really a goog boost setup after all the time i wasted i could've went stand alone but had i had to do it all over again i would but my car still is not even perfect or even close for that matter


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

has anyoner out there run one of those 275 dollar wideband gauges that are for sale in the forced induction forum? do they work good?


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

The LC-1 is a nice unit.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

it works good


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

That's the one in my car now.
I don't have the gauge for it... I really want to buy it though


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah they are pretty nice it looks like


----------



## turbobunny007 (Feb 27, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

i have the aem wideband on my cis turbo rabbit and it is damn acurate and works really well. i got it on ebay for 250 shipped to me new!!!!!


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah i gotta invest in one soon what happens to your air fuel gauge if the o2 sensor goes bad does it always read lean or rich?


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Hopefully next month I should be starting my turbo project. I have a CIS-E in an '87 GTi, has the knock sensor and whatnot. I am using an audi fuel distributor with the 5th injector taken out and plugged, and am gonna be running an FMIC with a t3 turbo. Is there any problems I may run into? I am gonna order a wideband to monitor things closely, I know everything on here is CIS...but will CIS-E be a bit easier? Thanks for any info


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wrathchild20* »_Hopefully next month I should be starting my turbo project. I have a CIS-E in an '87 GTi, has the knock sensor and whatnot. I am using an audi fuel distributor with the 5th injector taken out and plugged, and am gonna be running an FMIC with a t3 turbo. Is there any problems I may run into? I am gonna order a wideband to monitor things closely, I know everything on here is CIS...but will CIS-E be a bit easier? Thanks for any info









I thought the audi dizzy did not work with cis-e? Or maybe it was the volvo dizzy.....


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
I thought the audi dizzy did not work with cis-e? Or maybe it was the volvo dizzy.....

the audi dizzy will
1) not work with cis-e unless its the special build CIS III Coupe GT (not many made) one.
2) the audi one will not flow any more than a normal dizzy with one plugged (I personally flowed it)
3)the volvo dizzy will not work with CIS-e, just CIS. 
Basically, the only way to make a turbo work to 200 HP is extra injectors, or the 240t on regular cis with 5k regulator, or CIS-e with the resistor mod. Other fuel distributors are a waste of time, unless maybe you get a mercades V8 one on CIS-e and run 2 injectors per cylinder


----------



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

Is it possible to make a program to use the cold start valve as a full time injector or part time(when boost come on)?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_Is it possible to make a program to use the cold start valve as a full time injector or part time(when boost come on)?

Not recommended, as it will not flow enough without modification, and it is a rather uneven spray into the cylinders.


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*

Well I bought the fuel dizzy from iluvfastcarz, he was in the fox forum and claimed to use this on his turbo'd fox. This is driving me crazy...







He also sent me audi injectors that will flow up to 200hp. So we'll see


_Modified by wrathchild20 at 12:30 AM 4-26-2007_


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_I'm going to throw this out there again... 
*FS: Perfect Power Turbo Fuel $180*


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wrathchild20* »_Well I bought the fuel dizzy from iluvfastcarz, he was in the fox forum and claimed to use this on his turbo'd fox. This is driving me crazy...







He also sent me audi injectors that will flow up to 200hp. So we'll see

_Modified by wrathchild20 at 12:30 AM 4-26-2007_

Makes no sense, the injectors are the same.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_
Makes no sense, the injectors are the same.

i was thinking the same thing this morning when i read his post.


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (******)*

So then, whats the difference between the audi turbo'd CIS-E cars, and our VW CIS-E? How can one run a turbo and the other one not? And show me a link to these perfect power turbo fuelers you're talkin about.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*

the injectors should be the same. i'm not sure of the differences between audi turbo's and vw cis-e. i wouldn't think that audi turbo cis-e and vw cis-e would be different. it's not the fuel dizzy thats different it would be the audi WUR and advance/retard canister.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_the injectors should be the same. i'm not sure of the differences between audi turbo's and vw cis-e. i wouldn't think that audi turbo cis-e and vw cis-e would be different. it's not the fuel dizzy thats different it would be the audi WUR and advance/retard canister.


I think the fuel distributors are different, and also the shape of the lift plate cone is different. Injectors are just a spring, no differences. I had the part numbers of fuel dizzy's that coulda told me a long time ago.


_Modified by realpower at 2:58 PM 4-26-2007_


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah does anyone know the part number for a true volvo 240t fuel distributor


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

latest news starting another cis turbo project one car is not enough


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

I have a whole cis fuel setup if interested. 240t dizzy, 5k regulator, retard can, and odds and ends.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

dude post some pics up man need those


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Hey guys, sorry to butt in here, but I have a 'Langford' turbo kit, well parts of that I'm looking to sell. Any interest around these parts?
I have the 'brain' - boost triggered adjustable switch triggering micro fueler, I have the said microfueler (a cold start injector) with its fuel line tapped into a 2.5" pipe. Audi WUR (or was it Volvo) boost sensitive anyway. Dual port vac can. I actually have my stock CIS unit as I used it on the car.
Can you put a value to my kit / parts?
It's been a while since I was looking in here....Good thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (infront)*


_Quote, originally posted by *infront* »_Hey guys, sorry to butt in here, but I have a 'Langford' turbo kit, well parts of that I'm looking to sell. Any interest around these parts?
I have the 'brain' - boost triggered adjustable switch triggering micro fueler, I have the said microfueler (a cold start injector) with its fuel line tapped into a 2.5" pipe. Audi WUR (or was it Volvo) boost sensitive anyway. Dual port vac can. I actually have my stock CIS unit as I used it on the car.
Can you put a value to my kit / parts?
It's been a while since I was looking in here....Good thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I heard bad things about that langford setup. Considering MS is so cheap, maybe 100 bucks?


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (realpower)*

I'm not upset by that, it is kind of a crude way of fueling in this day and age...
I have MS now


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (infront)*

until we decide to ditch cis we really have no other choice unfortunetly crude or not it still works http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_until we decide to ditch cis we really have no other choice unfortunetly crude or not it still works http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yup and it can work very well.. You just need the right tools and the know how...


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah i mean my car runs great drives nice and is fast as hell


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

infront you got pics of that langford setup


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Sure do,
























http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by infront at 7:19 PM 4-30-2007_


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

were are you suppossed to get fuel from to fuel that sixth injector?


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

From memory, you pick up from the cold start outlet on the CIS fuel distributor. If I poke around long enough, I should be able to find the double length banjo bolt and the cover for the brain....
The CIS cold start outlet then has 2 lines off it instead of the stock 1. The line is always under pressure, but fuel only flows when the injector sees some volts. The 'brain' dishes out the volts (is it 12 or 5 volts, I forget?) when the pre set boost pressure (adjustable) is reached.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah its just an overglorified hobbs switch


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

ttt


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

page 21 owned 
hey thinking about making my own turbo manifold for my new project 2.0 audi block with 1.8 head 
buying parts from acestainless.com what size pipes should i use any ideas?


----------



## project lil ugly (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Hi i would like to know if i have a back of my timing on my 1.7L rabbit turbo runing 5psi of boost ?


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (project lil ugly)*

I've gotten a t3 turbo off of a 2.5 L Chrysler daytona. Now the intake and outlet of the turbo are tiny, maybe like 1.5 inches..and it doesnt look like your ordinary t3 turbo. The exhaust part of it is massive, and i would say the whole unit is almost as long as my engine block. Has anybody worked with these before? Would I hafta turn my manifold upsidedown or do any cutting and welding of the turbo to get this thing to fit? I might just get a t3 from ebay...but if this thing will work i'll do it... i'll hopefully post pics of this thing soon


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

project lil ugly no you shouldn't have to back off your timing for 5 psi you should be in the clear.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

also 84roccoz400 where did you get the kit to shim your fuel distributor to raise the control pressure? from autotech.com


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (wrathchild20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wrathchild20* »_I've gotten a t3 turbo off of a 2.5 L Chrysler daytona. Now the intake and outlet of the turbo are tiny, maybe like 1.5 inches..and it doesnt look like your ordinary t3 turbo. The exhaust part of it is massive, and i would say the whole unit is almost as long as my engine block. Has anybody worked with these before? Would I hafta turn my manifold upsidedown or do any cutting and welding of the turbo to get this thing to fit? I might just get a t3 from ebay...but if this thing will work i'll do it... i'll hopefully post pics of this thing soon

*A picture is worth a 1000 words...*


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_also 8*5*roccoz400 where did you get the kit to shim your fuel distributor to raise the control pressure? from autotech.com

Actually I took them out of some old fuel distributors I had laying around.
But the Autotech Kit seems like a nice way to go.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

what spark plugs are you guys running


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_what spark plugs are you guys running

I run NGK BPR 7 ES


----------



## wrathchild20 (May 27, 2005)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*

Corrado spark plugs should work as well right?


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_what spark plugs are you guys running

Saab 8V turbo - 1 grade cooler than the N/A version, same gap.
1979 - 1985 Saab 8V turbo Autolite #62


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_
Saab 8V turbo - 1 grade cooler than the N/A version, same gap.
1979 - 1985 Saab 8V turbo Autolite #62

I would never run Autolite in my car every...


----------



## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_
I would never run Autolite in my car every... 

they are OEM for some of the Mercedes models.


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (ijcameron)*

Doesn't matter to me I wouldn't run them in anyone of my cars....
NGK plugs in every car I ever owned


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_Doesn't matter to me I wouldn't run them in anyone of my cars....
NGK plugs in every car I ever owned

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

going to try the ngk plugs


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

thinking of switching the volvo 240 distributor out seems to be causing serious problems my car hardly even idles now ran better with the stock distributor on the car


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

jervwjetta84 (1:27 PM 5-1-2007): the volvo 240 setup is not working at all car hardly even idles and when i let off the throttle the car will die
85roccoZ400 (1:29 PM 5-1-2007): It's probably running to rich. happened to alot of ppl when they run the Turbo WUR...

_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_going to try the ngk plugs

BPR7ES are one stage colder


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_thinking of switching the volvo 240 distributor out seems to be causing serious problems my car hardly even idles now ran better with the stock distributor on the car

Adjust the mixture.


----------



## GTIvr6666 (Apr 14, 2004)

tried adjusting the mixture thats the problem every single time i drive the car i gotta keep leaning it out or richening it what where you guys running for pressure im at 60 psi after the filter to much or not enough? currently my fuel pump is at 15 volts


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (GTIvr6666)*

I would say that 60psi is not enough. I thought the pressure was supposed to be around 73-80 for basic and maybe more for CIS-e? Look it up that sounds low. There should be a happy medium in there, usually a within a half turn window.

_Quote, originally posted by *GTIvr6666* »_tried adjusting the mixture thats the problem every single time i drive the car i gotta keep leaning it out or richening it what where you guys running for pressure im at 60 psi after the filter to much or not enough? currently my fuel pump is at 15 volts


----------



## GTIvr6666 (Apr 14, 2004)

my setup is currently cis so i dont know low fuel pressure should not cause a concern as far as comin back down to idle and that is what i am experiencing, i unplugged my dual port vac canister and i helped alot but if i hit the throttle and let off the car wont go back down to idle it will stall.


----------



## GTIvr6666 (Apr 14, 2004)

are those colder spark plugs gonna even help? basically tired of putting tima and money into this car dont want to spend another 200 dollars for a new fuel pump


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (GTIvr6666)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIvr6666* »_are those colder spark plugs gonna even help? basically tired of putting tima and money into this car dont want to spend another 200 dollars for a new fuel pump


Help your adjusting problem? No. Help detonation? Yes.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

ok does anyone know what has to be disconnected in order to set the co adjustment


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

does anyone know if you can shim the volvo fuel distributor to raise the pressure


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_does anyone know if you can shim the volvo fuel distributor to raise the pressure

that should be more than enough fuel. dont shim it.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

well yeah i found out today that is my problem to much fuel when i let off the sensor plate fall and the sudden excess of fuel and lack of air causes the car to stall driving the car i pukes out black smoke so im gonna put the stock wur back on and then go from there


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_well yeah i found out today that is my problem to much fuel when i let off the sensor plate fall and the sudden excess of fuel and lack of air causes the car to stall driving the car i pukes out black smoke so im gonna put the stock wur back on and then go from there

You need to route your diverter valve back into the intake (between the meter and the turbo. This will force the plate down for no fuel when you let off the gas.


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (ijcameron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_
they are OEM for some of the Mercedes models.

Sorry, wrong answer. Mercedes never had Autolite as OEM. NGK, Champions [very short time], Beru, Bosch, and a few others but never Autolite.


----------



## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (rossmc1)*

This is a very nice thread. It would be among the first to be FAQed if we receive enough votes for a CIS FORUM!


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Longitudinal)*

/\ That would make my day.


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

Would anyone be interested in the *Perfect Power Turbo Fueler*
I've post this a few pages back...


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey does anyone want to buy a callaway micro fuler (brain and fuel banjo bolt and line and injector also will include boost tube with injector port will post pictures tonight) looking for 150 or best offer i know what these are worth they are getting hard to find and figured i'd post it here before i put on ebay








Reason for getting rid of this is my car is fueling fine was actually running to rich under boost 


_Modified by jervwjetta84 at 12:57 PM 5-7-2007_


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (Longitudinal)*

please do we defienetly need a good place to post dyno runs and info about our setups also pilfering through other forums to find info is sort of a pain and im sure everyone in this forum would appreciate it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jervwjetta84* »_
Reason for getting rid of this is my car is fueling fine was actually running to rich under boost 


Never that just means you can run more boost


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

yeah nvm that 15 psi is plenty going to get the car dynoed


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)




----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

bump


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

sorry about the huge pictures!


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Please keep items that are for sale posted in the classifieds, thanks.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

ok sorry bout that


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

hey good news about my car i had to adjust the throttle sto out so when the throttle smacked closed it would still let air by that what was causing the stalling problem. also i revised my setup a little bit i removed the audi warm up regulator and replaced it with the stock one


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

ttt


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

anyone have any sucess on recent cis turbo projects?


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (jervwjetta84)*

Not to be a jerk, but don't you think you are overposting a bit? It makes it hard to find info with empty posts.


----------



## jervwjetta84 (Jul 16, 2005)

sorry


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jervwjetta84)*

Vote yes for CIS!


_Modified by EuroKid83 at 9:19 PM 5-26-2007_


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

ttt


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

this is an interesting page.....anyone have any pics, of the manifold and turbo mounted on an engine out of a car....i'm looking to see how you guys have your turbo clocked...
the way i have mine setupo is inlet charge is pointed straight to the block...i'm gonna have to find a 90 bend to go towards the passenger side so i can have the piping to go to a FMIC....
hard to explain...POST PICS please http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (redGTInj)*


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

cool! thanx for the pics...post MORE http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm using the turbo/manifold from a steve langford kit...the way it's set up is if u had the turbo in that pic turned clockwise anothe 90 degrees...
i got a homemade piping kit and front mount intercooler...and wouldnt mind having to change some pieces

in the setup above how are you gonna end up mounting the piping for intercooler...


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: (redGTInj)*

gonna try and get some pics up tommorow bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: (redGTInj)*

bump


----------



## White_Rabbit_GTI (Apr 27, 2007)

Ok I have a 1984 GTI with a 2.0L 16V CIS no ECU, I feel I have done a bit of research but I still have a few questions. Why if at all do you need to use volvo parts and I have found a turbo kit sold by a shop localy does anybody know a better place online. My current " what I will need" looks like.
-Bigger injectors 42Lb
-high presure fuel pressure regulator
-High presure inline fuel pump
-Low comp forged pistons
-cold forged coneting rods
-of course the turbo kit as well
-intercooler and all piping


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (White_Rabbit_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *White_Rabbit_GTI* »_Ok I have a 1984 GTI with a 2.0L 16V CIS no ECU, I feel I have done a bit of research but I still have a few questions. Why if at all do you need to use volvo parts and I have found a turbo kit sold by a shop localy does anybody know a better place online. My current " what I will need" looks like.
-Bigger injectors 42Lb
-high presure fuel pressure regulator
-High presure inline fuel pump
-Low comp forged pistons
-cold forged coneting rods
-of course the turbo kit as well
-intercooler and all piping

Look through the whole thread, there is a ton of lists of parts you will need here. As for this list above, it must be for a different car, cause CIS cars don't have traditional injectors, and if you need forged pistons, rods, etc etc you aren't running CIS anyways.


----------



## White_Rabbit_GTI (Apr 27, 2007)

*Re: (realpower)*

?
I have looked through the entire thread but I want to know whats nessisary and what is not.


----------



## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: (White_Rabbit_GTI)*

i would just leave it 2.0 16v, do some head work/cams...should be more then enough in a rabbit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## White_Rabbit_GTI (Apr 27, 2007)

*Re: (vwaddicct07)*

No, I want to turbo this sucker I jusr dont want to buy any parts I dont need. What kind of fuel rail would I have to slap in the car to fit the bigger 42lb injectors


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (White_Rabbit_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *White_Rabbit_GTI* »_No, I want to turbo this sucker I jusr dont want to buy any parts I dont need. What kind of fuel rail would I have to slap in the car to fit the bigger 42lb injectors

There is no fuel rail on CIS


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (realpower)*

i don't think that guy has any idea what we're talking about when we say CIS.


----------



## White_Rabbit_GTI (Apr 27, 2007)

*Re: (******)*

I realize there is no fuel rail but swaping one in from another car would be the only way I could see doing it.


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (White_Rabbit_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *White_Rabbit_GTI* »_I realize there is no fuel rail but swaping one in from another car would be the only way I could see doing it.

thats why this thread was created. for people who don't want to swap fuel managment and still go turbo. if you want information on turbo'd cars that aren't using cis then you need to chech out the forced induction forum.


----------



## White_Rabbit_GTI (Apr 27, 2007)

*Re: (******)*

Ok, sorry for seeming so ignorant I thought I had done reaserch but I thought every 2.0L 16V was the same just for curiosity purposes when did they start the 2.0L 16V with FI?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (White_Rabbit_GTI)*

i thought all 16v's were cisE?


----------



## Rocc it (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (******)*









I picked up this nearly complete oldskool BAE kit a while back, and I think I'm finally at a point that I'm ready to make it a reality rather than a pile of cool parts on the shelf. The largest hurdle I've yet to overcome is the fact that I can't find an original install/owners manual for this kit anywhere. There's a scanned version of the manual for the diesel version of the kit floating around out there on the interweb, but the differences are too vast to do me much good. 
I'm hoping that some of you guys that are familiar with these CIS kits can help me to make sure that I'm connecting all of the parts correctly. Bear in mind that I only have a limited knowledge of turbos and the parts that go with them.
Here's some info on it that I know....
- Turbo has been recently rebuilt (it doesn't appear to have been used since rebuild)
- There is an external wastegate. It looks identical to the Callaway WG's that I've seen.
- There's no provision for a BOV.
- There's no intercooler. (I'm afraid that adding one would create a terrible amount of lag, given the small size of this turbo...but I don't know)
Wastegate Tag:








Things that I've heard....
- The BAE kits were designed to give 7-9 lbs for a modest and more dependable kit.
- Additional fueling was not neccessary.

So, where I'm at now....I need some help routing my vacuum lines to their correct place and instruction on where and how to install a manual boost controller.
I bought an Audi 5000 WUR just so that I can be sure that I have adequate fueling under boost. I don't think it can hurt to have it available. Thoughts? 
Here's some pics of it mocked up on my old 1.6.
















I've been told that this line is my oil feed, but it's too short to reach the filter flange. Anyone see any problem with feeding the turbo off of the oil port on the side of the head?








What it's going on for reference:


----------



## Rocc it (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (Rocc it)*

Not much interest in this thread anymore?


----------



## Rocc it (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (Rocc it)*

bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Rocc it)*

yeah thats your oil feed line


----------



## Rocc it (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (******)*


_Quote, originally posted by ******** »_yeah thats your oil feed line


Yeah - that's been established. The question is: Is there enough pressure from the port in the head to feed the turbo?
Another question: With the parts that I currently have, is this kit ready to install? Can I simply adjust my boost level from the nut on the top of the wastegate to start? 
I've got an old issue of VW & porsche that had an arcticle about this kit on a 84 GTi...they made no mention of additional fueling. Is additional fueling really neccessary if I'm running low boost levels?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Rocc it)*

i don't think that additional fueling is an issue unless you start boosting alot. if you keep it low then you should be fine. when i had my turbo set up i was using the port on the top of the oil filter housing as a tap for my oil feed line. theres about 60lbs of pressure coming out of that bastard.


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: (Rocc it)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocc it* »_
Yeah - that's been established. The question is: Is there enough pressure from the port in the head to feed the turbo?


I commented on this in your post to the Scirocco side..


----------



## Rocc it (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (85roccoZ400)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85roccoZ400* »_
I commented on this in your post to the Scirocco side..

Hrm...somehow I missed that before.







Duly noted.








d-bot also said something about an oil-restrictor inline with the feed. I suppose that wouldn't be an issue if I'm feeding from the lower pressure port on the head, no?
Can anyone comment on the boost level being determined by adjuster nut on the wastegate? Is that a safe way to set it up?


----------



## Rocc it (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (Rocc it)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocc it* »_
d-bot also said something about an oil-restrictor inline with the feed. I suppose that wouldn't be an issue if I'm feeding from the lower pressure port on the head, no?
Can anyone comment on the boost level being determined by adjuster nut on the wastegate? Is that a safe way to set it up?

^^^bump?


----------



## Rocc it (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (Rocc it)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocc it* »_
^^^bump?


----------



## honkey (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: (Rocc it)*

i ran mine straight from the filter houseing and didn't use a restrictor so you should be ok


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (******)*

Are any of you guys familiar with Micro Dynamics? I have one of their rising rate FPR's for CIS-E but I wana make sure it's for CIS-E and not CIS.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

Any interest in my setup? $1000 with the audi 5000 WUR and 240t dizzy.
NEW 2.5" downpipe too! This setup lets you use all the stock exhaust components. The kit is complete, butu the piping should be used as jigs to make some better piping. The intercooler is a 1.8t cooler, and the turbo is a water cooled RHB5 with all the piping.
It goes on ebay in a day or two if its not sold.
I would be willing to split the fueling stuff away from the turbo.
















I also have the original callaway elbow, but its not pictured (I paid 75 for it!)


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*

Dalla dalla dalla bills yall.


----------



## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

What, is the economy slowing down?


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (realpower)*


_Quote, originally posted by *realpower* »_What, is the economy slowing down?

Haha, not that I know of. I just wanted to bump this thread up baller style. So anyone have any new and exciting turbo projects in the works?


----------



## nap51dcrow (Apr 11, 2005)

i wanted to know if there are any fuel dizzys that have a larger air intake port. it looks as if the opening between the stock one and 240t are the same. Does anyone have a picture of any other fuel dizzys so i know what they look at.
Also i am going to be running a 2.0 aba block with 1.8 head, 276 cam, 240t fuel dizzy, saab intercooler and t3 turbo with around 15psi. on 8.0:1 comp. i will be running a 5th injector. any idea what kind of numbers to expect? Thanks.


----------



## nap51dcrow (Apr 11, 2005)

also this may sound stupid and pointless cause of the work involved but could some one run 2 fuel dizzys and 8 injectors with a bigger turbo to try and achive high power numbers with CIS. Like i said it may sound stupid but i figure you would be able to run a true dual injector setup this way and should have more then enough air and fuel to achive 400hp if the volvo 240 dizzy is good up untill 220. maybe i am oversimpifying it and it would not work quite right but i was just thinking about it. has anyone seen somthing like this done? or even a twin turbo set up with a seperate fuel dizzy to each turbo. i mean once you split all the fuel lines before they get to the dizzy and ensure your fuel pump will be abel to keep up with the demand you should be able to do something like that right. Again i know it would probably be easier to just go standalone or something but if you really wanted to get good power from cis is that something you could do?


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (nap51dcrow)*

It should work but like you said, Why? A V8 dist would work easier and yeah there is always a standalone.


----------



## joevwfox (Feb 20, 2007)

I would do what Butcher said, just run a dizzy from a Merc 8 cyl, still 8 injectors but only 1 great little air vane


----------



## nap51dcrow (Apr 11, 2005)

well like i said in my first of the two post, i have a volvo 240t dizzy i will be using, i was just curious if you could run the 2 seperate ones to help get more air flow. it was just me thinking out loud


----------



## nairmac (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: (nap51dcrow)*

8 port fuel dizzy will definitely work..... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2181504
And a B U M P because I just went through all of this thread again. It's a bit redundant at times and there's things that aren't needed in here, but the info is in here if you look for it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Whoring --->> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3393707


----------



## VWFOX407 (May 10, 2007)

*Re: Lets get a CIS turbo parts thread going..... (EuroKid83)*

subscribed <~~~~ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







,







..


----------



## VdubFeind (Dec 9, 2002)

^^ haha yeh no kidding eh !
This thread is Hype ! I've been watching and taking notes from this thread for years.. and now i'm finally close to finishing my build.
http://forums.generationdub.co...20211
In earlier posts people are Turned off by the power... so i put togeather a OBD1 ABA bottem end with Corrado G60 (PG) Head. Using the Stock G60 cam for now. I figure that will give me a little bit more balls out of the Engine itself and a great platform to boost off of. 
I'm not using the Typical T3 or K24/26 from older Diesels either... I got myself a VNT15 From a 2001 TDi. Very Efficient Turbo. And it sits much lower on the Engine as it hangs down off the Rest of the manifold ( turbo and manifold are one piece ).
I am a Strong believer in the CIS fueling system. Which is why i opted to stick with it for the Turbo Project. And again.. in Previous posts there is talk about the fuel pump voltage... Use a larger wire from the Fuse panel to the Fuel pump. Less resistance through the wire to the pump... Cheap and Easy mod
Some pics.. sorry about the Quality of some
























Oh yeah... I did have another CIS turbo.....Had it Chipped to 2.0bar w/ stock fuel system no added injectors
















_Modified by VdubFeind at 1:23 PM 11-9-2008_

_Modified by VdubFeind at 1:24 PM 11-9-2008_

_Modified by VdubFeind at 1:25 PM 11-9-2008_


_Modified by VdubFeind at 3:05 PM 11-9-2008_


----------



## Scurvy Bandit (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: (VdubFeind)*

grr saved to watched topics


----------



## 85gti8v (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: (Scurvy Bandit)*

I was wondering if anyone had a picture of a vacume retard canister, and where i can find one.
Thanks


----------



## Brycejoseph (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: (VdubFeind)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubFeind* »_










I have a nub question here. I have been going through this thread on the basis of gathering knowledge for turbocharging my 8v. now the Audi 5000 WUR that is the think pictured on the right of the oil dip stick, and engines that do not come with this have a block off plate? seeing as this part is listed in almost ever turbo CIS build, knowing exactly what it is would be amazing so i can pull it from a yard.
I have been going through my Bentley manuals for cars equipped with these. I am under the impression, knowing very little about the whole thing, that this retards timing under boost. How does it do that when it is not attached to the distributor or the cam?
Now with that question out of the way my next one is this. Knock sensors. my engine is a GX code and does not have this system. so, if i was to find the bits somewhere what would work?
I know that the distributor on models with knock sensors have a vacuum chamber on them. can I change out the distributor? or do I have to pull out the whole thing with the gear that goes down into the block? The wiring and the running of boost lines does not bother me as much as the distributor problem.
thanks in advance. I look forward to posting lots of information on my build as I start with it.
cheers,


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Brycejoseph)*

Anybody ever used one of the 8 cylinder FD's on a turbo application? There is a picture in the beginning of this thread that shows a 8 cylinder FD with four of the injector lines blocked off. Also looks like a turbo setup. Any thoughts?


----------



## The A1 and A2 German (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

I'll see if I can dig up some of the CIS pics as well before EFI.
Callaway Stage III


----------



## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: (The A1 and A2 German)*

Thought I'd post some pics of my progress so far, im going the forced induction route with my 1.7 bunny... its almost completely junkyard build minus the manual boost controller, boost gauge, and bov... 
I'm mixing in a bit of Swedish engineering and chose a TD04HL-15G turbo from a '97 Volvo 850, had a custom made flange to fit the turbo to the manifold properly, have a volvo 240t fd and audi 5k wur all hooked up, just need to get oil feed and return lines, IC piping + make a downpipe,... 
Onto the pics ...


----------



## livingez123 (Jul 7, 2009)

On my track car I ran the basic CIS with a Audi turbo regulator .It ran great and was very realible. later on I added in cab control for the control pressure.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jason08)*

Jason, Just wana say nice work so far keep us posted on your progress. Also did you have to stretch that boot over the sensor plate to get it on?


----------



## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

I've made quite a bit of progress over the past week, my friend helped me fab up some intercooler pipe, I got the silicone pipe connectors in this evening but its too dark to install everything, so tomorrow I'll install the IC piping, buy a vacuum line to connect the BOV, then start the bunny up! I still need a downpipe but that'll come later once I'm able to drive it to my friends place so he can fab one up.
Eurokid, yeah I had to stretch it a bit, it was pretty easy though, a little difficult to slide it around once its on though.
I ended up putting my stock FD unit back in, i couldnt figure out how to properly bypass the frequency valve on the volvo 240t unit, besides i figure I'll only be in the 150 or less hp range anyways... 
I'll try post some more pics tomorrow, 
-Jason


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (jason08)*

I would recommend getting the FV controller and related wiring from a 83 or 84 GTI or similar K-Lambda car with the WOT switch. This will allow you to run more boost if you can manipulate the FV. It's easy just two power wires and two grounds.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (EuroKid83)*

I'm in the process of building a k-jet turbo mk1 & have been gathering part's over a period of time. The car already has a Volvo 240 fuel dizzy & airflap assembly. I've also added in a permanent fuel pressure tester incl. a tap to test both the control & system pressures.
So far, I've got a saab T3 turbo, Mitubishi Galant turbo intercooler, audi turbo warm up reg, dual port dizzy assembly & a few other bit's incl a callaway boost gauge & other bit's & pieces & also waiting on the rest of the conversion part's to arrive incl. manifold & A/F meter etc.
While waiting for these part's I decided to play around with some item's & tested the dizzy advance/retard pot.
I modified the pot & drilled out the retard stop & tested it. Under 10-15psi it didn't retard the ignition at all. At 20psi it retarded the ignition only a few degrees. Vacuum advance operated as normal.
I also fitted the audi warm up reg & tested it too. At hot idle without the vacuum hose fitted it would read 45psi (normal). As soon as I put the hose from the warm up reg barbed fitting to the throttle body full vacuum port it would run like a bag of crap & pull it down to 20-25psi! Even on the throttle body ported vacuum it would idle fine at 45psi, but as soon as you crack the throttle open alittle bit to pull vacuum it would again run bad & pull it down to 20-25psi!
If someone could please help, where about's do you plug the warm up reg. vacuum/boost reference into. Eg. throttle body ports, intake manifold to get the boost enrichment?
Also has anyone actually tested there ignition boost retard, as I'm interested in your result's to see if they actually do work.
What would be the approx power output of a k-jet turbo setup like this running 10psi?
Cheers
Tim.


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (Mk1-20V)*

I too am in the process of building a K-jet turbo setup and should hopefully have it running in my 79 Rabbit in a few months. My setup will consist of the following:
Factory re-man 1.8 shortblock bored to 81.5mm 8.5:1 CR with a rebuilt and ported G60 head.
Ported MK2 intake manifold with G60 TB.
ATP 8V turbo manifold.
Garrett T3 super 60 turbo.
Volvo 240 Turbo fuel system. (FD and WUR)
Volvo 240 Turbo BOV/DV
Volvo 240 Turbo oil cooler setup.
Bosch 044 fuel pump.
Custom FMIC.
Crane Hi-6R ignition with TRC-2 Boost retard control.
Custom FV controller.
Zeitronix zt-2 wideband with LCD display.
That's just some of the main components of the turbo kit I've been piecing together for the past year. I'll post some pictures when I get farther along in the build.


----------



## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

anyone got the part number for the audi 5000 wur? i read the whole thred and i didnt see it


----------



## G60orbust (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: (MaxVW)*

resurrection !!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (G60orbust)*

I'll add my finished K-Jet turbo setup.
Power unknown, but it turns the tyres from 55-80km/h in 2nd, squeal the tyres in 3rd & can run with low 13sec cars on the street
Not bad I reckon. 
Oh & I drive it 600+km a week as my daily driver & get 400km to 35L!
build up thread in my signature



















_Modified by Mk1-20V at 3:51 PM 3-28-2010_


----------



## kvbett (Jun 15, 2007)

*Re: (jason08)*









QUESTION:
I have a audi wur with 2 large ports and 1 normal vacuum port, do you need to plug the other 2 ports ? what are they for ?
I see that port in front plugged i also have another port on the side of the vacuum port.


_Modified by kvbett at 6:23 PM 4-13-2010_


----------



## Rabbit Farmer (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: turbo rabbit*

I have a Rabbit running a Turbonetics something-ah-rather turbo, CIS injection (external fuel regulator), 28 PSI, 170 PSI per cylinder, and intercooler that has a 6" run from turbo and another 12" to the intake (real short). Works great. Oh, and it is running Callaway microfueler with Electomotive coils.
Bunch of other random modifications. Falls in the really ugly, yet really quick category.
A lot of good information in this thread.
Steve


----------



## kvbett (Jun 15, 2007)

*Re: (kvbett)*

I took down the part # 035 133 403 D
It has 1 large port in front,1 large port and 1 vacuum nipple on the side. The port and nipple actually almost hit the oil filter flange near the block, I attempted to put caps on both large ports and the side cap sits right on the flange.
any info on the WUR would be helpful.


----------



## euroboimk2 (Apr 12, 2010)

Ok so I have several questions. I'm very new to vw and I've just read all 54 pages of this thread. As with all old threads most of the links I need are dead. I've got an 86 gti that I'm wanting to turbo. From what I understand 99% of this info is useless for this car as its cis e. The threads on adjusting the fd are all dead so can someone help me out? I've read a way to do it on gtitoolbox.com but I read on here that you can't adjust the stock fd to supply enough fuel. I also read that the 16v fd can supply enough for low boost. What all am I missing here?


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thought I'd add this into the CIS turbo thread as alittle bit of inspiration of what can be achieved with a very basic setup.

Ran the car last week.

13.78 @ 101.6mph 2.2 60 ft. Still very slow take off as I didn't want to just rev it up & dump it & break it "AGAIN!", slight wheel spin & mild clutch slip.

I reckon with a proper race clutch, alittle bit more track time & a few suspension tweeks there is still a few tenth's in it.


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thought I'd give this thread another lease on life I hope. 


What size turbos are people running on the K-Jet setups? 

I've currently got a Saab T3. .48 a/r. Not sure on the wheel trims. But will measure sometime this month. The turbo seals are screwed, but after all its only a $200 turbo. 

I'm also toying with the idea of upgrading due to having to replace the turbo anyways, & maybe chasing alot more power with a properly built bottom end, head, manifolds etc. 

Still want to run a journal bearing oil cooled only setup. 

Would like to chase approx 300hp or even more if the fueling is sorted 

Any turbo suggestions. eg.T3/4E 50-57trim .48-.63 a/r 



Has anyone thought of using, or used K-Jet from a mid -late 930 Porsche Turbo? 

I mean the entire system from warm up reg, fuel dizzy, down draught air flap etc. 

Surely if they can be tuned to nearly 500HP on stock K-Jet, someone could adapt it to a golf! 


I know its easier just to go EFI, but this would be a cool challenge I reckon. Especially with the right engine build, turbo & CIS gear, someone could make some good power figures & still retain good fuel economy/drivability etc. 

Whats the 1/4 record for a CIS equipped Golf 8V, 16V etc?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

What about just using the injectors and adjusting the control pressure


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

Glad to see my thread is still going. I'm slowly gathering the rest of the parts I need to finish my CIS turbo build this comming summer. Just scored a NOS Saab 900 turbo vacuum advance/retard unit for my distributor today. I plan on modifying it so I can adjust the ammount of retard under boost. Should work prety good. I'll post some pics soon.:thumbup:


----------



## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

John Milner said:


> Thought I'd give this thread another lease on life I hope.
> 
> 
> What size turbos are people running on the K-Jet setups?
> ...



i'm thinking a 50 trim .63 would be way more than any cis fuel has provided, not to mention a cis car needing a built bottom...

i'm thinking a 930 system would work if you put the 2 extra injectors in the tb or intake

i had a sc stock aba 8v trapping ~106 in 2002
15lbs, 11:1, no timing pulled
it was cis-e, FMU & xylene blended gas

now i have an all stock centrifugal sc 1.8 16v with an added TB 19lb vr injector/hobb in the idle screw hole of the TB & it's >100mph i think @ 8lb

i don't have a slip, you'll have to take my word :bs:

did Longitudal ever run his cis down the strip ??

& cheers :beer:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

EL DRIFTO said:


> i'm thinking a 50 trim .63 would be way more than any cis fuel has provided, not to mention a cis car needing a built bottom...
> 
> i'm thinking a 930 system would work if you put the 2 extra injectors in the tb or intake
> 
> ...


Both your cars sound like weapons!

Low boost too. 

Please post up some pics of the bays if you can....



I found an old pic of a bloke from the early 90's who ran a high 11 @ 120+mph on a CIS 8V 1.8L turbo.

Same bloke also ran low 13's in the early 80's on a 1.6L K-jet turbo'd autox car too

Not totally sure on the entire setups, as I don't think he posts on here anymore. But I think the 1.8L 11sec setup had a few extra computer controlled injectors & programmable ignition too, as judging by the pic, it has a coil pack setup.


I ended up going with a T3/4 50 trim & a .48A/R. 

I freshened up the engine, but it still runs stock pistons & rods. Just new rings, bearings, stud kit & a G60 headgasket. I also ported the head too. Check my signature for the full build up.

The car feels a heap better, smoother, faster etc with less boost too. It sprints a heap better & doesn't fall over at 160km/h. It runs onto 170 easy as. On a standing start it feels like it could run onto a 104-106mph now with a good 60ft. eg 1.8sec. Should do it with the new 2-step & I've got the stage & launch nearly down pat with it all too.

It will still be 100% street trim, bar some stickier tyres. Still street tyres, just stickier.

If the weather holds up, I should be racing the new setup on the 18th this month.

Will keep this thread & my build thread updated.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

this is my cise turbo project been running this setup for 6 months getting my new turbo gt3071r with .63 a/r pulling the slug k24 turbo out spools fast but party ends to soon. 
setup aba 10.1 comp with 15psi p&p big valve g grind arp bolts tial 38mm,
lighted flywheel stage4 spec clutch 
msd, 3inch exhaust meth injected etc 
will be adding cold start injetors on the intake and try to adjust the fuel curve


----------



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

wait? are you running the 3071r with just the 240t fuel dizzy and audi 5000 wur?


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

no my car is cise not cis that pict was the stock fox box and was running dry around 4000 rpms but with the audi 5 cyl and meth my a/f was low 12s threw out the rpms so with my turbo setup i will be using more cold start valves in the intake mainfold. FTH it will run good and i will do videos and dyno runs to back it up:laugh:


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> this is my cise turbo project been running this setup for 6 months getting my new turbo gt3071r with .63 a/r pulling the slug k24 turbo out spools fast but party ends to soon.
> setup aba 10.1 comp with 15psi p&p big valve g grind arp bolts tial 38mm,
> lighted flywheel stage4 spec clutch
> msd, 3inch exhaust meth injected etc
> will be adding cold start injetors on the intake and try to adjust the fuel curve


Love it!!

CIS turbo engine bays = 10 pound of s%#t in a 1 pound bag!!!!!

Your running serious comp. for for a turbo especially running CIS. But I suppose cause you have meth. injection, its not such a problem.

A friend of mine keeps getting in my ear about building a small fuel tank/pump setup in the plenum chamber, filling it with Alky & run it with another hobbs switching a 100shot of NOS to help it along.

It all sounds awesome, as this bloke has been playing withall kinds of NOS, Meth, C16 setups for many years, but I can't be stuffed.

I'll save the $$$ for another engine build.



You'll have to get this thing to the track!!!!!!!!!!


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

yes i will be going to the track this summer.yeah the meth helped me a lot befor i could only get 0 degrees timing the meth helped get 7 degrees and few more psi. i think i might just start out at 8 psi and work up to 12-15psi but my rods and crank are stock so i cant make to much torque.yeah i am saving money for my 68 bug so that is why i am staying with cise i dont fell the need to put another grand or more in to the car i know aftermarket efi would make it better but why i got the car free and only put 3 grand into the whole build if i can make it run low 13s or high 12s i would be happy.


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

I'm just running cis-E that was on the car originally
hobb switch to turn on 19# VR TB venturi injector where the idle screw used to be
hobb switch to open the eng temp sensor circuit to send max power to the Diff Pres Reg for cis-E
"marine" FMU to lower base fuel pressure & increase fuel pressure on boost only, both adj

i can go .4" down on sc pulley size :wave:
running great since summer, no need to change a thing unless i want to turn up the boost
i wish i could get a time in this cold weather, but the strip is closed...

summer


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thats a pretty cool setup

Is that a "ProCharger"?

What size & whats it to suit?


----------



## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thought I'd try & keep this thread going for all the CIS nutters out there. 

Got my K-Jet turbo car with the new setup to the 1/4 again. (did race it at the 1/8th too with some impressive times for the car incl. 1.8 60ft in full street trim!!!) 






























Managed to get 4 runs in, which for the amount of people that turn up, its pretty bloody good. 

Car is still full weight/trim with street tyres & the only mods from my daily driver setup is a VW Motorsport rear trans mount, a couple of bump & rebound adjustments to the shocks & tyre pressures. No ride height changes. 

Anyway they went like this 

[email protected] 2.12 60ft ([email protected] 1/8th which is miles off the cars best of [email protected]) 

[email protected] 2.12 60ft 


and....... 



*[email protected] 1.96 60ft* ([email protected] 1/8th) 



Very happy with this run, as my prediction was @104-106mph & 1.8 60ft in a previous post. 



4th run was go for broke and... 

It launched hard off the 2-step, shook the tyres & smashed the RH outer CV joint. 

Doesn't matter though. the car is running awesome & having a stock drivetrain handling 20+pass', plus the huge amount of street abuse, powerskids, clutch dumps off the 2-step in 2nd gear, I was expecting it to break sooner or later. 

But for now, I'll replace the CV & head back out again for the 12.... 



13.00 pass. Sorry, it was off my phone taken by a mate. & it doesn't have zoom. I really should of taken a camera with me, as I knew it was going to be a good night. 





 

13.2 Pass 





 
Going for broke 





 

and..... 

The aftermath 

My first thought was it shattered a CV, but after actually looking at it, instead of just hearing it, It appears to be a different story. 

It ended up snapping the driveshaft. Clean as a whistle too!!!!! 







































New shaft fitted & with the old cv's repacked with some cv moly grease. 

Change the rear trans mount over to the stock diesel one & the front tyres 

Quick wash & its back on the road for the daily 600km grind for work.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

Ok my turn to share my cise new setup t3/t4 50trim .63 ar i think i have the biggest turbo on cis on vwvortex :laugh: the car is running 10:1 comp 20 psi 6 degrees timing air/fuel stay around 11.1to12.1 thanks to the water/meth setup and treaking the fuel pressure.No dyno or times yet but the car is crazy fun/fast. 
john milner good luck on the 12 sec pass:thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> Ok my turn to share my cise new setup t3/t4 50trim .63 ar i think i have the biggest turbo on cis on vwvortex :laugh:


 I'm running the same turbo 

T3/4 50trim, except .48A/R Stage 3 exhaust wheel. 

Can't wait to see some of your results Fox. 

Looks like its just you & me still playing with K-Jet turbo stuff.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

John Milner said:


> I'm running the same turbo
> 
> T3/4 50trim, except .48A/R Stage 3 exhaust wheel.
> 
> ...


 turbo k-jet is fun cheap and gets the job done :laugh::laugh:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> turbo k-jet is fun cheap and gets the job done :laugh::laugh:


 Won't argue with that!!! 

Will be nice to see 2 K-Jet turbo cars into the 12's soon!!!! 

Once I've achieved my 12 sec goal with this setup, I'll move onto fitting a build 010 auto & see how that goes & then build my next big turbo'd setup. 20vt with all the good bits!


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

John Milner said:


> Won't argue with that!!!
> 
> Will be nice to see 2 K-Jet turbo cars into the 12's soon!!!!
> 
> Once I've achieved my 12 sec goal with this setup, I'll move onto fitting a build 010 auto & see how that goes & then build my next big turbo'd setup. 20vt with all the good bits!


 once i get tired of my setup i have plans of going 20v with a passat tranny maybe 400+hp but yes Im hoping for 12s this summer should be fun I have plans of turning the boost to 25psi and see what happens on cise I need to make injector holders for that not sure if they will come out at that psi :laugh:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

vwturbofox said:


> once i get tired of my setup i have plans of going 20v with a passat tranny maybe 400+hp but yes Im hoping for 12s this summer should be fun I have plans of turning the boost to 25psi and see what happens on cise I need to make injector holders for that not sure if they will come out at that psi :laugh:


 I've ran approx 25psi on K-Jet & I too thought they injectors would pop out. 

But I've never had a single problem with them surprisingly with both the first T3 setup & the current T3/4 setup


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

John Milner said:


> I've ran approx 25psi on K-Jet & I too thought they injectors would pop out.
> 
> But I've never had a single problem with them surprisingly with both the first T3 setup & the current T3/4 setup


I think i might use the holders the audi used on the 5 cyl should give me confidence to turn it up 25 psi with my size tubo etc i should see 300whp on the dyno


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## nbvwfan (Aug 15, 2007)

*CIS-E K Jet G60 GTI*

I am trying something different, though not originally intentional.
86 1.8 8V GTI 10:1 CR 
I have put in a G60, (not a longblock PG Digi conversion)
running a stock mechanical setup from corrado parts I amassed.
Had the injectors Cleaned by a guy in FL. 218cc-234cc volumes [email protected]
Fired it up monday night.
It runs but there are vaccuum line tieups.
Running stock CIS-E at teh present.
Hoping to get it sorted before rebuilding the G Lader.
Any tips/GL's/or thats crazy's are welcome.
I have done research and not found another build like mine.
Maybe thats a good thing, maybe not.
But I want to see if K Jet 10:1 will run with a G60.
I don't want to do standalone
Holla Back
And sorry for posting in a Turbo string if that upsets anyone.
Pics if I could Pm me for some to put in this string if your interested.


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## hasoooon93 (Apr 18, 2010)

hello guys .... i have golf mk1 1.8 16v pl stock .... and i was thinking about installing turbo but guys in 16v forum told me about volvo 240 turbo fuel system .... is there anyone install volvo fuel system in vw with turbo


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## vwmikelvw (Oct 28, 2000)

Back in the day I tested a bunch of different fuel distributors and the best thing I found really was the CIS-M fuel distributor. I actually run the full CIS-M fuel distributor and flow plate assembly in my Rabbit with a bare bones CIS-E harness and Mercedes 450 SEL fuel pump. The CIS-M flow plate potentiometer and DPR seem to work just fine and are a good fit under the hood.


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## hasoooon93 (Apr 18, 2010)

vwmikelvw said:


> Back in the day I tested a bunch of different fuel distributors and the best thing I found really was the CIS-M fuel distributor. I actually run the full CIS-M fuel distributor and flow plate assembly in my Rabbit with a bare bones CIS-E harness and Mercedes 450 SEL fuel pump. The CIS-M flow plate potentiometer and DPR seem to work just fine and are a good fit under the hood.


hello..... may u put some pic for ur engine plz


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Thought I'd update this thread to keep it all going, although the info is from the 1st of April.



Headed upto the track early & there was bugger all people there & was lucky enough to get in 3 hot laps! No waiting!!! Couldn't believe my luck!!

Anyway, straight off the trailer

[email protected] - 2.04 60ft, [email protected] Waaay off the normal 60ft & half track pace.



Then!!!!!!




*[email protected] *- 2.06 60ft, [email protected] Still off the 60ft & half track pace, but finally ran a full street trimmed & weight *12!!!!*

Last run I launched hard & mashed it & at half track started smoking like all buggery.

Didn't get a time slip due to below, but I looked up & still ran a smoking 13.1! haha

anyway, I broke it!

Stock pistons & rods with K-Jet can only take sooo much abuse.

Oiled down most of the track & made a mess everywhere! Oil was pumping out the breather like it was going out of fashion!

I dare say, its melted a piston & broke a few rings to pump out that much oil! It still runs 100% & drove it onto the trailer etc. But its now taken up smoking!!!











I had a quick look over everything & I found that the warm-up reg boost signal hose has split in half!!!!!


mmmmmmmmmm, $1 piece of hose caused the meltdown it. I hate when that happens.

I know why, as the warm-up reg port barb was jammed hard up against the oil filter housing which also jams the hose against it.

Over a period of time & multiple hot/cold operations, I dare say it got hard & finally cracked under positive pressure ie BOOST!

So for now, I've got another banger engine I'll re-ring & bearing, slap it together with all the good hardware & head back out to the track & hopefully improve on the 12.

Also got a whole bunch of auto parts on order & will be out testing a tricked up 010 auto sometime in the next few months.


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## 71camaro (Apr 20, 2009)

Hey guys, I have a 1988 Scirocco 16v running stock CIS-E. The car has Autotech cams and a stick trans with a Quaife dif installed. I'd like very much to build a cheap, streetable turbo or twin-screw setup that would allow the car to run in the 13.5xx range. I'm really familiar with carbed domestics, and hugely familiar with building good VR6s, but I know very little about CIS. I'm not trying to have someone hold my hand through the process, but if you guys could point me toward what parts I'd need to accomplish my goals I'd be quite indebted. 

The car for reference:









I'd like to know what fueling changes I'd need to make, as well as what size turbo would work well on this engine. Early in the thread there's much talk of the K26, but I feel it's too small for my goals. Thanks for any help gentleman.


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## bambam08 (Feb 10, 2009)

ok question for everyone???? My distributor has a vacume port on both sides of the dieafram can i run this or do i still need the one off a audi?????? its a 1.7 cis rabbit truck


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

i read some of this thread and i believe i have found all my answers and help, im goin to read the whole thread tomorrow and take notes

i want some more power for my scirocco and wanted to turbocharge it but didnt have all the info on how to turbo a CIS system, i understand the CIS system well now, i wasnt sure on how to turbo charge it

now i feel more confident about going through with this plan


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## t16vtricks (Feb 6, 2006)

*ALT pully*

Where did you get the alternator pulley I need one of those. Thanks


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## Mk1jh8v (Nov 28, 2011)

Anybody know the pros and cons on Volvo 240t fd vs Saab 900t fd, regarding horse power cap?

Anything would be helpful as I am new to turbo on cis.


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

CIS BUMP

:wave:


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

Has anyone tried this?


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

Capt.Dreadz said:


> Has anyone tried this?


Can someone check this out ? is this completely standalone ?

I am not technical enough to see what parts you need beside this.

the PT version for boost costs 699 almost similar to a complete standalone system with writable software.

.


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## aventari (Jul 25, 2000)

What do you guys set your timing at?

I have a wideband on my setup so I know I'm running good AFR's with my Volvo 240 FD, but I'm still getting slight detonation, becaus eI just pulled the head and found slight pitting in the combustion chambers


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## VolksRacer2 (Aug 6, 2002)

I can't believe people are still playing with the CIS turbo set-up! I had a 79 Scirocco (back in 92-94) running a modified Callaway kit, 7.875:1 compression on forged pistons, Microfueler controlled 5th injector and a t3/t4 running up to 18PSI. I never got any dyno runs with it, but I know it trapped anywhere from 108-112MPH in the 1/4. Unfortunately, I had REALLY crappy tires and NO drag racing skills, so my best ET was only a 14.19...but that was at 111MPH! I really wish I'd had better tires (and more skill!) because the thing would've run well into the 12's if you could've used full throttle before 4th gear.


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*CIS Turbo*

I'm happy to see this thread is still going. As for the previous question on ignition timing, are you running a vacuum retard/advance "can" on your distributor? if not you need to get one. Try running 30 - 32 degrees total timing and see what happens.


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## VWunion Chad (Dec 13, 2010)

All of this sounds sooo confusing.. BUMP


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## Hummdog (Nov 23, 2009)

I would like to thank everyone who has posted on this thread, it has really helped me out! I am still in the process of cleaning my car up, but have at least got most of my cis turbo parts together. If any readers on this post are looking for a downpipe I will be arranging a group buy or at least making some with a friend

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...uy-Mk1-Turbo-Downpipe&p=81228205#post81228205


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

Hummdog said:


> I would like to thank everyone who has posted on this thread, it has really helped me out! I am still in the process of cleaning my car up, but have at least got most of my cis turbo parts together. If any readers on this post are looking for a downpipe I will be arranging a group buy or at least making some with a friend
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...uy-Mk1-Turbo-Downpipe&p=81228205#post81228205


I am getting mine made 3" and with turbosmart 38mm flange at local muffler shop.



:wave:


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## VWunion Chad (Dec 13, 2010)

Hummdog said:


> I would like to thank everyone who has posted on this thread, it has really helped me out! I am still in the process of cleaning my car up, but have at least got most of my cis turbo parts together. If any readers on this post are looking for a downpipe I will be arranging a group buy or at least making some with a friend
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...uy-Mk1-Turbo-Downpipe&p=81228205#post81228205


invalid thread


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## scirocconaut (Oct 7, 2011)

Good threads never die


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## 4-door crap rabbit (Sep 4, 2001)

Hey guys.. I'm super happy to have found this thread! I will be starting to put my cis turbo rabbit together very soon... I have to wait till this coming pay check to order the exhaust manifold, but I have all the volvo fd, cpr, injectors, rabbit lines as well as volvo lines, just ordered an intercooler I think will work well, both inlet and outlet on the pass side.

My engine is kind of a franken-thing.. I'm using a 1.6 bottom end and a hydro-lifter big valve gli head. I ran this engine NA for a while, and it pulled harder up top than regular jh block rabbits i've driven, so we'll see. The theory is that the compression should be a bit lower than a stock jh, as well as pretty strong bottom end from what I've heard.

turbo is a t25 with 80 cold side AR and 64 AR hot. these were stock on 2.2l (?) pontiacs, i got the turbo for a song and from what my rudimentary compressor map skills tell me, it should be an ok match for midrange and high rpm power at <1 bar.

I just read as much of this thread as I could before my eyes started to cross, but I'd like to thank many of you in advance for a lot of really good ideas and insight. I'm familiar with cis as both a hobbyist and professional mechanic, so I'm not worried about that aspect of things.

However, I see a lot of you wanting to run the audi cpr with the volvo fd, but I never saw an explanation why. If anybody has some insight there, I would appreciate it.

I was also curious if any of you have heard of anybody using the volvo 240 turbo ecu? the plug in and box are physically identical, I haven't opened both my bentleys up yet to compare wiring diagrams, but I would think it would be as simple as moving some pins around in the plug in.. but is there any benefit?

Anyway, Hopefully pics will come very soon, here's a turbo teaser for now!


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## 4-door crap rabbit (Sep 4, 2001)

Got some parts in the mail, starting to try and figure out what the sanest way to put them together is going to be... I started thinking that I would route my intake piping 1.8t style, but after looking at some of the pics here and having a rabbit at work right now to help visualize, I'm starting to have second thoughts.. There are not a lot of pics on here to really help me weigh the pros and cons of having the turbo's cold side facing on way or the other. Any advice or more pics on the subject would be super appreciated.

Now for the pics:











...and a link to some of the other progress/stages the car has gone through. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/starseed1066/library/rabbit project?sort=3&page=1

Having the fuel lines going to the driver's side of the car seems like a huge bummer for having the cold side facing the passenger side, since that's where I wanted to put my air box. I guess I have to put the engine in the car and start playing with things. I'll update the thread as I make any notable progress, as there aren't anywhere near as many pics as there should be in a 24 page thread!


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## 4-door crap rabbit (Sep 4, 2001)

So I've now fully accepted that I have to point my compressor housing at the driver's side of the car, and that to run the intercooler I already bought, I'll have to use a mk2 manifold to put the inlet on the passenger side of the car.

I picked up a TT g60 cam off ebay, I'm still trying to figure out what car came with a vac retard hall effect dizzy, or at least one with vac retard and advance, as I really don't want to have to run points on this thing... that's a little too old skool, even for me.

more pics to come when I get the cam installed and the engine ready to go in the car.


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## 4-door crap rabbit (Sep 4, 2001)

So I've now fully accepted that I have to point my compressor housing at the driver's side of the car, and that to run the intercooler I already bought, I'll have to use a mk2 manifold to put the inlet on the passenger side of the car.

I picked up a TT g60 cam off ebay, I'm still trying to figure out what car came with a vac retard hall effect dizzy, or at least one with vac retard and advance, as I really don't want to have to run points on this thing... that's a little too old skool, even for me.

more pics to come when I get the cam installed and the engine ready to go in the car.


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## 85GTIGUY (May 8, 2014)

Undead Thread 

So i am pullin out some thread necromancy to get a few answers.

Turbo 2.0 obd1 aba block stock 8v head from my cis car untell i can source a 16v head. cammed and port matched.

240t/ audi 5000 fuel dizzy. I only need them if i plan on going higher than 170 is hp correct?

The WUR from these cars. Do i need it if i plan to use an FMU to increase injector pressure as boost goes up?

Is there another option other than that WUR? Is there another option for fuel enrichment?

If WUR is only option what models/years of cars do i need and which is easiest to source.

Fuel delivery is the only thing i don'y have figured out fully. I figure i can get away with alot of stock on low boost (below 6psi) My plan is to get the turbo installed and running then improve it over time as Parts aren't easily sourced for CIS-e cars. I know i could do a full ABA swap and turboing would be as easy as installing and tuning the ECU but i'm not interested in a full swap yet if at all. Plus i'm not looking for 300hp. 200hp is the most i'm trying to hit and even that is just something i'd like to make. I figure a good cam and port matching will get me close to 130 on a 2.0 block throw on some turbo parts i have and hit 170 and my already fun to drive GTI will be a blast.


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

Wow....seeing this thread pop up really brought back some great memories.....Makes me wonder how I wandered so far off the path into what I'm driving now.


I really....really...really need an older VW again.

I'm glad some of the info in this thread helped people!


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

:beer: glad I found this.

Looking for advice on a turbo manifold for mk1/8v.


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## flowmastergfunk (May 31, 2007)

impulse byer said:


> :beer: glad I found this.
> 
> Looking for advice on a turbo manifold for mk1/8v.


I think most cast ebay exhaust manifolds are the same, with the exception of SPA. Not sure how many of those were designed with the counterflow head in mind, but they have several different designs.

I wonder how the ebay ones hold up compared to some of the toilet bowl N/A manifolds with T3 flanges welded on :facepalm:

Definitely want to know more about the options myself, as I have no means of fabricating a tubular one.

Tuning back in to this thread to support my beloved CIS and refresh my memory/motivation on an 8v turbo build. Although I am harboring a second fascination of the 16v/aba turbo with CIS lambda as well <3


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## 13enning21 (Mar 4, 2012)

So I went through a lot of this forum just now. I'm looking turbo my 88 gti 16v. A lot of the post refer to 8v. It seems the basic recipe is a 240t FD, an audi turbo distributor and a audi turbo wur. The US Spec 16v don't use a wur, do people find ways to hook them up? They came on euro 16vs. Also since I have knock box ignition is the vacuum canister distributor not needed?


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## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

13enning21 said:


> So I went through a lot of this forum just now. I'm looking turbo my 88 gti 16v. A lot of the post refer to 8v. It seems the basic recipe is a 240t FD, an audi turbo distributor and a audi turbo wur. The US Spec 16v don't use a wur, do people find ways to hook them up? They came on euro 16vs. Also since I have knock box ignition is the vacuum canister distributor not needed?


Most if not all the info in this thread is related to CIS, K-Lambda to be specific. All that's required to do a CIS turbo setup is basically either the Volvo 240 T WUR or the Audi 5000 T WUR to provide fuel enrichment and a Saab 900/9000 T distributor "vacuum can" to retard the ignition timing under boost. Low boost levels can be safely run on K-Lambda systems found on nearly all 4 cylinder engines that used it. If you wanna go higher than say 8 PSI then your gonna want to switch to the Volvo 240 T fuel distributor and run a intercooler. You can fit the Volvo CIS fuel system to a 16V you just have to get creative. The knock box type of ignition probably wouldn't be ideal because you have to retard the timing under boost. For the CIS-E systems your gonna be pretty limited as far as making it work with boost. Back in the day there was a company called Micro Dynamics out of the U.K. that made upgrade parts for running boost on CIS-L and CIS-E fuel systems. Their stuff is extremely hard to find these days but if you ever come across one of their rising rate FPR's for CIS-E buy it if you can. I've only seen one in my life so far. That's your key to making it work with boost. Good luck.


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## Superman (Dec 8, 2000)

Does anyone still sale the Kinetic Motorsports 16V turbo kit new? If not, is there any 16V turbo kit on the market?


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## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

there was a kinetics complete turbo kit for sale in England last year in a local forum.


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## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

I have collected most parts to do this on my 16v. But life and family got on the way
I sold some parts and put some to use already.


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## Superman (Dec 8, 2000)

I've decided to go G60.


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## 2.OhhhGTI (Jan 26, 2003)

Keeping this one alive as it was a great resource for me! :beer:

For anyone still wondering, a CIS car on boost is a blast and not that hard to do with realistic goals...
My Callaway Rabbit GTI running stage 2+... :thumbup:


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

yeah ive been on here from time to time i was a bit stupid on my cis-e build but it worked and sounds like no other car on the road just a deep growl rumble


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## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

I will be building a cis-basic turbo car this winter.


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## über3 (Mar 22, 2014)

Not sure if this thread is still alive but what info do you guys have on a 16v cis turbo build I have a 83 gli with a sciracco 16v I'd like to turbo soon


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## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

Get the free volvo service manual from the internet to learn how their system worked. The pressures and values for tunning will be there.

I have an almost complete volvo 240t system for sale. A saab 16v turbo distributor with mechanical advance available also.

A new turbo manifold.

No warm up regulator or intake hose for it thought.

I am moving away from cis turbo to 16vg60 on aba obd1 remapped engine management


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## 2fas4u (Jun 6, 2003)

*Callaway cis help*

just got my turbo set in. cars running lean. about 16 idle and once is warmed up about 19. once i start driving the a/f is all over the place. any recommendation?


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## thegave (Dec 22, 2008)

Just wanted to add to this thread my findings from recent testing and research regarding pressure-sensing WUR/CPRs, because it seems like most of the posts in this thread about which vacuum port to plug say to plug the lower brass barb.

I've found that it is the upper port that needs to be plumbed for on-boost enrichment, because it is the only port that responds to boost pressure (drops control pressure, raising system pressure)









Found a very interesting thread that confirms my findings and does a good job explaining what the two ports are for and how they're "supposed" to be plumbed.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1384099-WUR-connections


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## CallawayTurbo (Mar 14, 2006)

I had the Volvo turbo wur and had only 1 port. Cis has alway been a mystery to me , I found out there is a digital wur available too , pricy but does the job much better than the original ones


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## BadHabitRabbit16 (Jun 3, 2018)

Sorry to drag up an old thread but you all seem to know someone or have knowledge yourselves that could help me in my build. I took my 1980 rabbit with a 1.5 cis and turbo'd it this winter with a Garret t4 out of a Volvo 240. I rebuilt the turbo, spins beautifully. Kept the factory wastegate (seems to be working well). (I've also wired the wastegate shut to see if it was my problem and it didn't boost anymore than before). Max I get for boost is like 4 pounds. Also doesn't start to build boost until like 3500 rpms, then its cutting out and popping at 5. Now to add to my problems I can't figure out where I should be setting my timing or where I should be setting my air/fuel ratio adjustment on the fuel dizzy plate( I've adjusted both everywhere). It seems like the more retard my timing is boost builds quicker but the car is sluggish and when I advance it I can only get one bar at like 4 grand and still runs out of fuel or something around 5 grand. This car ran beautiful and would rev out to 6+ no problem before I put a snail on it. I also don't know if the wur check valve is facing the right direction or if it is even needed on a boosted setup. Or if my vaccum in general is setup correctly, like my pot on the distributor where I left the back open but ran vaccum on the front. I put my vaccum diagram drawing and a few pictures in this photo bucket. Any pointers appreciated. 

http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/F0ster49yahoo/embed/slideshow


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## itschrisb (Jun 7, 2007)

Anyone still messing with CIS turbo stuff? I’m piecing together bits to throw a turbo on my ‘87 Cabriolet.


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## thegave (Dec 22, 2008)

Sure there's still a handful of Callaway nuts hanging around in the Mk1 forum. I think everyone else has moved on though, EFI is cheap and easy these days.


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## itschrisb (Jun 7, 2007)

thegave said:


> Sure there's still a handful of Callaway nuts hanging around in the Mk1 forum. I think everyone else has moved on though, EFI is cheap and easy these days.


thats fair, EFI has gotten significantly cheaper and more available than 10+ years ago.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I still am. I'm modding a Volvo turbo fuel distributor to flow more fuel. Larger fuel metering nozzles from a VW distributor, shimmed springs, etc. Sadly, work and home life is taking it's toll but I suspect I should be back on it come spring/summer time. 

You could think with covid, things would be slower, not for some.


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## itschrisb (Jun 7, 2007)

Butcher said:


> I still am. I'm modding a Volvo turbo fuel distributor to flow more fuel. Larger fuel metering nozzles from a VW distributor, shimmed springs, etc. Sadly, work and home life is taking it's toll but I suspect I should be back on it come spring/summer time.
> 
> You could think with covid, things would be slower, not for some.


what are you HP goals? Or what were your previous HP numbers before you started modifying?


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Way to often I read threads where they have all this horsepower but the turbo comes on at 5k. That may be great for peak HP, but I do not drive waiting for 5k to hit before I get going.

I really do not have any power goals. My goal is to have stock driveability and more power. Everything I touch I think of efficiency. Many things are trivial but maybe all that will add up to something. 

What I have now is a stock VW CIS basic system with about 5psi boost. I get as high as 33mpg and as low as 28. I'm willing to say that there is no other CIS fuel system that runs better, turbo or not. It's a strong runner. No hesitation, fuel mixture is perfect in most conditions and slightly rich under boost [12.9-13.1].

What I do plan on installing [and have all the parts] is water injection. Any good turbo should have this. I do have a frequency valve electronic controller that will change the control pressures under boost. This should be able to lean or enrichen the fuel mixture when it's over 10psi. Most stock CIS turbo warm up regulators are not good at higher boost levels. Having a frequency valve to help control things should help out a bit.

I like CIS and I do believe it's under rated. It will never be as good as EFI but EFI will never be as good as direct injection. It's truly unfair to compare CIS with EFI. CIS is what I want to use and I will find the best set up for me and my goal. Driveability. Great cold starts, good power, great fuel economy, and great fuel delivery under boost.

It's generally understood that the Volvo system is the most flowing of the 4 cylinder set ups. There may be others, like Lotus, but they are rare and too expensive to source/play around with. I've run a Volvo system on a NA 1.8 [to work out the bugs before throwing on a turbo]. The distributor I have works great. Sadly it's in a corner of the shop. I purchased a used Volvo distributor and a few other VW distributors. I gutted them and installed the largest parts on the Volvo unit. Too difficult to put into words. Just think there is a lot of butchery in that hunk of cast iron. I do not know if it will work, but I do not know anyone that has done [or even thought about doing] what I've done. It's just a theory now, I just need to build a test jig to test it out and compare it to my stock Volvo unit.

Here is a link to my build. I have not added anything recently but it's not because I have not played with it. Nothing worth updating.








POS/Sleeper Callaway Caddy


I've been on the Tex for some time now, but never do I post pictures or builds. Certainly I'm not a poster of DIY information. I have had VW Rabbits since 1978 [76 Rabbit/2 door/carb] and this Caddy I've had since I opened my shop in 2011. I needed a shop truck so I bought the Caddy and it has...




www.vwvortex.com


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## itschrisb (Jun 7, 2007)

Butcher said:


> Way to often I read threads where they have all this horsepower but the turbo comes on at 5k. That may be great for peak HP, but I do not drive waiting for 5k to hit before I get going.
> 
> I really do not have any power goals. My goal is to have stock driveability and more power. Everything I touch I think of efficiency. Many things are trivial but maybe all that will add up to something.
> 
> ...


I couldn’t agree more, I’ve only ever had turbos that make power up high and doesn’t make it that enjoyable to drive unless you’re always on the highway. It has kind of turned me off from turbos and has had me looking into superchargers because of the instant availability of torque. I’d love to have something setup that’s useable all the time. I’ll be sure to read your build thread. I recently bought a Mercedes 190e With a supercharger on it. It ended up being a pile but the CIS-E handled the added boost with no issues. I’m interested in the frequency valve idea also. I was talking to a guy who was working on an adjustable standalone wideband setup that would adjust fuel based off AFR.


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