# Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

alrighty, here we go... there was a teaser a little while ago, here's the followup.
A certain company I may or may not own, which is not a Vortex advertiser, may or may not be launching a new division. That said, if you have any questions pertaining to that end of this discussion, please keep it to IM's, AIM = ABF JEFF, or IM for a phone number.
This is a MILDLY PORTED head with stock sized valves. It was originally ported just to get some numbers. Although the flow wasnt' as high as we'd hoped, it is a pretty mild port, and we'll be hitting another one with before and after numbers with OS valves and a lot more porting.
Now for the pics...

















































































































Like i said, the numbers seem a little low, but they are right on par, in fact a little higher, than a 16V head flows on the intake side. I need to get it bolted on a car with both a stock cam and my spare 270 in back to back to back dyno's. I'll pay for the dyno as long as you pay or the disposable parts and what I have into the head, which can all be discussed via IM. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Questions, comments?


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## LMHConcepts (May 28, 2006)

You should go ahead a port and polish, as well as turbo charge, a 2.0 8V from the 99-ups







Maybe the drive by wires


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (LMHConcepts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LMHConcepts* »_You should go ahead a port and polish, as well as turbo charge, a 2.0 8V from the 99-ups







Maybe the drive by wires









Funny you should say that... got a pair of AEG's in the works... one pretty tame, one not so much...
Granted, not DBW, but I can't afford to do it out of my pocket, and until a customer comes along willing to foot the hard parts cost and the plane ticket for jeff to fly out and tune it, it'll have to wait.


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

sure does look purty mr.jeff...i'll show you mine when its done....CNC FTW


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

Actually the numbers do look a bit low. BUT I guess Jeremy spent a ton on his head to get it to flow 190+... Nice head.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Dear Forum.
I endorse Jeff. 
THat is all
Regards,
Cam God


_Modified by tdogg74 at 10:08 AM 7-13-2007_


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

you also get the Q SEAL OF APPROVAL










_Modified by the_q_jet at 10:25 AM 7-13-2007_


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

thanks for the kinds words, guys...
Judging by the way the numbers continue to climb and don't taper much all the way up to the .550 lift, it would greatly benefit from OS valves and heavier porting... the point was just to get a baseline and figure out where to go from there.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_...but they are right on par, in fact a little higher, than a 16V head flows on the intake side.


How is that on par, even a little higher for that matter, with the stock 16v intake CFM?
@ .40" & .50" your off by an average of 25cfm... that's a lot.


_Modified by billyVR6 at 10:47 PM 7-13-2007_


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (ABF Jeff)*

sweet stuff jeff, what are the 16v head flow numbers stock?


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
How is that on par, even a little higher for that matter, with the stock 16v intake CFM?
@ .40" & .50" your off by an average of 25cfm... that's a lot.

_Modified by billyVR6 at 10:47 PM 7-13-2007_

The flowbench I have from my old 1.8L 16V head was 149CFM intake... so, based on that number http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (GTijoejoe)*

Flow benches will vary, but at 28" the 16v's flow an average of 176-178cfm on the intake side between .40" and .50" lift.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Flow benches will vary, but at 28" the 16v's flow an average of 176-178cfm on the intake side between .40" and .50" lift.


Ya, I'm just going off the sheet I have... that flow number is also on the head before it was cleaned or worked over, 180K+ miles... so I figure, on that note, the numbers would be a little higher stock after cleanup and a valve job. Either way, the flow is much improved from stock, and I'm anxious to get it on a car and see what kind of actual power difference it makes... not just WHP, but torque and the overall curve. From the heads I've had done previously, the amount of finish work on the problem areas in the port are going to pay off major. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (ABF Jeff)*

that looks sweet! keep up the good work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (djpj06)*

Looks great! How did the secondary ports turn out? In my old head, I was able to open it up until they were gone(factory fill in ports). the head I run now 8-03 production, has none what so ever, really opens up! I also opt'd to smooth the edge where the valve seat transition is. Did you use the port kit with the scotchbrite type wheels (that look like an "everlasting gobstopper" from the first movie)? Fabking turned me on to those. Again, hardcore work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by jettatech at 10:17 PM 7-14-2007_


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (jettatech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettatech* »_Looks great! How did the secondary ports turn out? In my old head, I was able to open it up until they were gone(factory fill in ports). the head I run now 8-03 production, has none what so ever, really opens up! I also opt'd to smooth the edge where the valve seat transition is. Did you use the port kit with the scotchbrite type wheels (that look like an "everlasting gobstopper" from the first movie)? Fabking turned me on to those. Again, hardcore work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by jettatech at 10:17 PM 7-14-2007_

I'm not the one that did the porting... my guy mike did it, and is the one who will be porting all my heads. Hopefully he will see the thread and chime in, but he actually does a lot of it with cartrige rolls, believe it or not. The seat transitions, bowl, and the little hump at the bottom of the valve transition is where is spent most of his time, the ports aren't really opened up that much... So, I don't think the numbers on the flowbench really tell the whole story, need to get it on an engine and dyno to see the real gains, because based on my experience with ABA heads, this is going to make monster torque. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_ because based on my experience with ABA heads, this is going to make monster torque. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Ya, I'm just going off the sheet I have...

I would flow a clean 2.0L and 1.8L 16v head if you are going to continue to use that as a flow/performance comparison. That 16v 149cfm reading is very misleading to those reading in the forum. A quick archive search would back up that something is off, way off.
Here is a good post I have had bookmarked for a long time that has some crossflow related numbers pushing 180+/190+cfm.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1212485
Allen post's up in there about his welded head that was 196cfm by D&F, if I am not mistaken that is the same shop that did WolfGTI's head a few years back that had solid results.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
I would flow a clean 2.0L and 1.8L 16v head if you are going to continue to use that as a flow/performance comparison. That 16v 149cfm reading is very misleading to those reading in the forum. A quick archive search would back up that something is off, way off.
Here is a good post I have had bookmarked for a long time that has some crossflow related numbers pushing 180+/190+cfm.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1212485
Allen post's up in there about his welded head that was 196cfm by D&F, if I am not mistaken that is the same shop that did WolfGTI's head a few years back that had solid results.

I agree jeff, this would be a must for good comparison on your own personal results on the same bench http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (GTijoejoe)*

Like I said, this is just based on the number's I had available. I've got a whole lineup of heads that will be flowed before and after shortly, so I'll have better numbers to go by at that point. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

i too would like to throw it up to jeff, nice guy, and great work

-the pretty tame one


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
I would flow a clean 2.0L and 1.8L 16v head if you are going to continue to use that as a flow/performance comparison. That 16v 149cfm reading is very misleading to those reading in the forum. A quick archive search would back up that something is off, way off.
Here is a good post I have had bookmarked for a long time that has some crossflow related numbers pushing 180+/190+cfm.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1212485
Allen post's up in there about his welded head that was 196cfm by D&F, if I am not mistaken that is the same shop that did WolfGTI's head a few years back that had solid results.
 i think this is a good comparison
http://www.cylinderheadtech.com/flownumbers.pdf


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: Ported ABA head, you won't be sorry (the_q_jet)*

They flow the heads in 25" of water rather than 28"... shouldn't compare to that.
Also, they vary the valve lift measurment between heads/make/models...


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

yea i had noticed that...now i figured they didnt lift the 1.8t that much becuz of the 5valve design, i dont know much about the 1.8t so i figured the valves might hit each other at too high a lift? also with it being flowed at 25" instead of 28" that would me they are flowing less no?


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

i ported the head and i too was expecting a little more than what it put out. so im going to take a completely stcok obd 1 head and have it flowed to see what base line numbers are. so billy what do stock obd1 cross flow heads flow??? as long as the percentage over the stock head is where i was thinking it would be i will then be more satisfied with the results of this head......... if the flow bench is on them its time to start doing more research. there was no o/s valves and no combo chamber work nor welding done to this head but i can do all of that if need be. my neon head are up around 300 cfm on the intake and 250 on the exhaust and im gonna be flowing a dsm head pretty soon here and it should be right up ther with the neon head so its not like im just hacking away here hoping for good results incase thats what u are thinking............ oh and the flowbench is a superflow 600 at 28"


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (blackmkIII)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackmkIII* »_tts not like im just hacking away here hoping for good results incase thats what u are thinking...

I was'nt getting at anything other than there was a comparison made, not even by you, to stock 16v cfm rating that was clearly incorrect. Not once did I say anything bad about the quality of workmanship, etc., etc. I have seen some of your non-vw posted before elsewhere, nice. Hell, your even involved/posting in that link I posted about serious crossflow potential.
This is all I have bookmarked for stock numbers, from 1994 OBD1 Stock German X-Flow Head @ 28"; 

_Quote, originally posted by *KrautFed* »_Intake
0.100 - 52.2
0.200 - 100.5
0.300 - 130.5
0.400 - 149.0
0.432 - 149.9
0.500 - x
Exhaust
0.100 - 38.4
0.200 - 71.7
0.300 - 86.7
0.400 - 92.9
0.432 - 93.6
0.500 - 96.7

Allen talking about Kraut's stock numbers;

_Quote, originally posted by *81 vw pickup* »_kroutfed got his head from dave at d&f performance and i believe it was at 550 lift.they flow 155-158 stock.

I am sure a search would come up with more details.
Maybe shoot Krautfed an IM and see if he still has his charts, that would be a good start.
You could contact D&F to see what bench was used - 856-767-4095 or [email protected]


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

oh there was no attitude behind that dont worry. i thought the stock cross flows were around 135-140 intake side and i was right when thinking the exhaust was right around 100 cfm. where else have u seen my stuff? HT? anyways im hoping when i take the stock crossflow head in and get it flow benched the numbers will be quite a bit lower than the numbers from the head that jeff posted pics of, cause like i said i was expecting more.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (blackmkIII)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackmkIII* »_i thought the stock cross flows were around 135-140 intake side...

Could be true, maybe that is what the OBD2/Mexican heads flow? That would make some sense?
That might be something you would want to source, both German and Mexican castings, flowbench them both.
As for seeing your work in the past, I think you posted your headwork before, I asked you if you machined your own guides. I think I just clicked your signature link then. Could have been HT as well.


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

oh yeah now i remember...........
when jeff gets me that other head ill get it flowed and see what it does


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (blackmkIII)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackmkIII* »_oh yeah now i remember...........
when jeff gets me that other head ill get it flowed and see what it does

Friday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

try this on for size...ITS ALOT OF DATA http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#tabtop


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

Yeah, that's a good site to have bookmarked.
Although the 16v numbers seem just a little high to me everything else looks about right +/- a few cfm.
The German vs. Mexican flow numbers they got make sense with what Mike thought was stock flow.
136cfm Mexican vs. 149cfm German @ .40" lift.


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

is it feasable to see 170in 140ex on an 8v?


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

My mk4 head from Jose will be flowing that


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_is it feasable to see 170in 140ex on an 8v?


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_My mk4 head from Jose will be flowing that 

The ole OBD1 head is flowing about 186cfm on the intake at 0.500" lift, 28" H20. That is with some heavy porting (Porttuning's "Stage 3") and stock diameter valves with stems undercut to 6.3mm








There is a graph knocking around showing my head numbers compared to a stock ABA OBD1 head. These numbers would have been taken on the same flow bench by Jose at Porttuning.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (bajan01)*

The highest flowing 8v head figure I've run across has been 201 cfm... for a Eurospec counterflow race head...
The old counterflow Techtonics Stage 2 "streetport" were around 170 or so...
186cfm with stock valves is pretty fantastic. Does it actually dyno higher though?


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_ Does it actually dyno higher though?

that's the real question... looking at the ports on my head, I know it's going to make great power.


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_186cfm with stock valves is pretty fantastic. Does it actually dyno higher though?

130whp with stock intake manny. Haven't dynoed since new short runner intake. Waiting to install stand alone and tranny before going back to the dyno


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## pozer (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (Fluxburn64)*

WOW. Hit that crack pipe again Internet worrier. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Fluxburn64)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fluxburn64* »_At least I'm not a little red-neck loser, who never went to college, who never is going to make 100K+ and who used to beat up guys at bars because he couldn't get laid. Or was it your dad that used to have fun with you Jeff. Special little boy

I'm wondering exactly what inspired this... I'm not a ******* loser, I'm a drunken hick, and I did go to college, in fact, I have two degrees and working on my third, mechanical engineering.
I don't make over 100K, but I'm working pretty hard on that, and I've never had trouble starting or finishing bar fights, and getting laid hasn't been a problem either.
To tell you the truth, I really at a loss for what inspired this.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
and getting laid hasn't been a problem either.


Well, when you primarily go after men, of course its easy for you to get laid.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Well, when you primarily go after men, of course its easy for you to get laid.









Uh... I go after women. Generally 18-21, blonde, and stupid.
I'm not into men, not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Ya, I'm a vulture of sorts, I guess.


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

on topic you durtay whores!


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_on topic you durtay whores!

It's my thread and I'll whore if I want to.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Jeff were those above #s at 25" or 28"... I'll be test flowing a bunch of heads soon as well... counterflow of course


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Jeff were those above #s at 25" or 28"... I'll be test flowing a bunch of heads soon as well... counterflow of course









I believe it was 28"... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

And you can't compare counterflow intake flow to a crossflow intake... it's unfair!


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

huh... you guys get the 7mm valves off the bat LOL... thats what I call unfair







I won't even go into the manifolds...
16v head flows 180-185 btw (I'm sure your sick of hearing it







)


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_ (I'm sure your sick of hearing it







)

hey, I was just going off the sheet I had... it was also flowed at 25", which I didn't see until recently.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
hey, I was just going off the sheet I had... it was also flowed at 25", which I didn't see until recently.









A little pet peeve of mine is when someone publishes flow numbers without saying what the test pressure is, I can remember a while ago I was reading some flow numbers that seemed too good to be true and found out later the test pressure was 40"WC







. Anyways that's just my 2¢.
BTW Jeff, nice looking head. While the flow numbers may not be the best we've seen around here, they'll still support at least 160bhp, maybe not enough for someone with carbs, ITBs or an SRI but absolutely perfect for someone that wants to keep their engine stock looking http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABA Scirocco* »_
A little pet peeve of mine is when someone publishes flow numbers without saying what the test pressure is, I can remember a while ago I was reading some flow numbers that seemed too good to be true and found out later the test pressure was 40"WC







. Anyways that's just my 2¢.
BTW Jeff, nice looking head. While the flow numbers may not be the best we've seen around here, they'll still support at least 160bhp, maybe not enough for someone with carbs, ITBs or an SRI but absolutely perfect for someone that wants to keep their engine stock looking http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


again, I didn't realize it was at only 25", but that's another topic, lol.
The head is a street head, it's not going to be performing at race specs, but I would have gone big valve and had him hog it out a lot if that was the goal. It is going to be going on a car that will shoot for 150whp, and I'm confident if will do it. Flow numbers are a good ballpark, but drivability is the ultimate goal for a street car, and thats what it is. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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