# USRT's ITBs 170whp??



## all motor 8 valve (Jun 2, 2006)

Anyone else read this in this month's Eurotuner? USRT has said their much awaited-for ITB setup is good for 170whp? Why havent they posted a dyno sheet yet. For $1500, I would think proof would need to be given for that!


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## veedubrockstar (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (all motor 8 valve)*

Wait, an ITB kit worth 170 horse? I smell BS. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## all motor 8 valve (Jun 2, 2006)

Cant be BS...they printed it in a magazine. I mean, who has balls that big to claim that without dyno proof?


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## veedubrockstar (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: (all motor 8 valve)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all motor 8 valve* »_Cant be BS...they printed it in a magazine. I mean, who has balls that big to claim that without dyno proof?

Ya, because Eurotuner is always so accurate.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (veedubrockstar)*

Wait, It's in Eurotuner and I haven't heard a word about it yet? What does the article say? I really have to get a subscription.


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (all motor 8 valve)*

make 170whp <> good for (I would imagine "up to") 170whp


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (ninety9gl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ninety9gl* »_make 170whp <> good for (I would imagine "up to") 170whp

Up to 170whp is different than 170WHP.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Wait, It's in Eurotuner and I haven't heard a word about it yet? What does the article say? I really have to get a subscription.

Here you go lazy-boy...


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Here you go lazy-boy...









Looks dope... can't wait to see some info from USRT.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (hkk735)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_pipe dream really, they are still only a thought- there arent any actually even bolted up to cars yet.but when there ARE- watch out!!!!









hmmm...


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## at_the_speed_of_2.l0w (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

You guys need to get out more.








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3265937


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Up to 170whp is different than 170WHP.

That's what I said, but I suppose "<>"="not equal to" isn't very common.


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## brakeless (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (ninety9gl)*

also with apropiate head and cam combo


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (brakeless)*

Saw it at Waterfest in their booth, looks pretty sweet


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (brakeless)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brakeless* »_also with a 20v head and 288* cam set combo

Fixed that for you.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (tdogg74)*

also with a 20v head and 288* cam set combo


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Fixed that for you. 

and thats about the only way thats going to happen


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (dvlax40)*

Um... did you read it?
You want to see them on the heads, go to Waterfast.
It's nice to see the site is updated accordingly.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ninety9gl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ninety9gl* »_Um... did you read it?
You want to see them on the heads, go to Waterfast.
It's nice to see the site is updated accordingly.

Mounted on an engine running and driving and tuned and dyno'd is completely different... I would like to see the size of the TB's so I can do the airflow calculations myself. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

I would be curious to see what they've got them on thus far, and yeah that does make a difference... but seeing them at the point where they're installed is still a lot further than most people thought they were.


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ninety9gl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ninety9gl* »_I would be curious to see what they've got them on thus far, and yeah that does make a difference... but seeing them at the point where they're installed is still a lot further than most people thought they were.

I'll give you a by because you weren't around, but they had a set on a manifold with a plenum on it like a year and a half ago. These are obviously a different set, but more or less in the same place they were then, i believe.


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## at_the_speed_of_2.l0w (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

No, seriously, this isn't all that new.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3265937
http://www.extrudabody.com/Products/ITBs.html
http://www.usrallyteam.com/itb.html
Search...try it, you'll like it.








looks like 45mm


_Modified by at_the_speed_of_2.l0w at 10:30 AM 7-22-2007_


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
I'll give you a by because you weren't around, but they had a set on a manifold with a plenum on it like a year and a half ago. 

Yep, and here's a pic I took of em.....


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (at_the_speed_of_2.l0w)*


_Quote, originally posted by *at_the_speed_of_2.l0w* »_No, seriously, this isn't all that new.

Search...try it, you'll like it.








looks like 45mm


I did search it, and I checked the website as well... that said, I did not see anywhere where they actually said what the size was. 
45MM TBs will flow enough to make 170BHP, but that's assuming the head can outflow them. An 8V head??? Even heavily ported with a big cam, 170WHP is not undoable, but unlikely.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

Oh man, I forgot about that picture. shame, it really is.

_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Yep, and here's a pic I took of em.....


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Well, if anything's new-ish it's the fact they've actually updated the site about it... before (I want to say even last week when I was looking at valvetrain stuff on their site) it just said they were working on it... there's about twice as much info now as there was. It looks like they're getting things ready.
But yeah, it seems I missed some of that from the get-go when it comes to have stuff installed... But there definitely seems to be more out there and more recent information now... Website had to have been updated within the last few weeks, and that thread to the Carb/ITB/SEM forum is from June.


_Modified by ninety9gl at 4:58 PM 7-22-2007_


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## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

Im excited again.........right when I gave up, I got pulled back in! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (dvlax40)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dvlax40* »_no way they make 170 on stock ECU

I want everyone in here to think what 170whp actually is...think about that for a minute.
Nate Romero made ~ 240whp on an ABA 20V with 50mm ITB's and every single performance part in the book thrown @ it (some custom parts as well).
Jarod Desglin is looking @ 200whp on a 9A 16V with 50mm ITB's and a whole HEEP of parts.
To make 170whp on anything is going to require ALOT of work,not just a simple ITB bolt on.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Nate Romero made ~ 240whp on an ABA 20V with 50mm ITB's and every single performance part in the book thrown @ it (some custom parts as well).

Nate's engine had gutted out carbs.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (all motor 8 valve)*

Guys! Here's the deal. When Eurotuner asked about output with ITBs, I provided several concrete examples of VW race engines. For instance, VW 16v rally engines put down about 240bhp in both the Mk3 and Mk4 cars. SuperVee 1.6l engines with counterflow heads routinely layed down 180bhp or so and that was on mechanical injection! The potential for a streetable crossflow 8v to do 170bhp (with tuned Motronic management) is totally reasonable.
Now, notice that I'm talking about *b*hp and not whp. Still, a full-tilt race-prepped 2.0l crossflow engine should easily be able to make that kind of power at the wheels. What Eurotuner wrote isn't exactly what I stated, but I'd stand by their claim, anyway. I just wouldn't want to drive it on the street.
Here's one other thing to keep in mind. What we're about to release is a 45mm plate set up. This is definitely a solution for the street driver and will complement the typically-modded 2.0l out there. With that I mean mods like ~260 - 272deg cam and exhaust. It won't run out of breath with a nicely ported head, either. To make a radical 170 ponies at the wheels, however, you'd absolutely have to run bumpier cams than that and use standalone management. You'd also need to use throttle plates larger than 45mm like 48 or 50. We're producing tooling to make those bigger versions soon.
We're all about keeping it "real" over here. Most of y'all will know this to be true. It just so happens that the Eurotuner info was somewhat sensational with their reporting. Who'dathunk that could happen?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? ([email protected])*

Thanks for clearing that up..Most people know your company is the real deal. Or they should if they don't.
We don't need people running arround buying this product and then bitching on how it does not make the claimed hp....there is plenty of products that do that all ready.
Again thanks for the clarification.
Dave


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_Thanks for clearing that up..Most people know your company is the real deal. Or they should if they don't.
We don't need people running arround buying this product and then bitching on how it does not make the claimed hp....there is plenty of products that do that all ready.
Again thanks for the clarification.
Dave









What?!?! No off-color, witty remarks dripping with contempt?? 
_...looks up to see if the sky is falling..._


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (tdogg74)*

Not yet...and not for USRT or you tdogg74








I'll save that for the EMO kids in the underdrive pulley discussion


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## speaker (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Guys! Here's the deal. When Eurotuner asked about output with ITBs, I provided several concrete examples of VW race engines.

I've worked with Eurotuner & before that, Max Power. You can say, "I weigh 180 lbs.and am in pretty good shape" and they might quote you, "He's burly & ripped!". Usually you don't see it before it's printed to say "Noooooo, that's not what I said!".
They aren't bad people, just occasionally hyperbolic in their prose.


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## Fukendrivin (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (tdogg74)*

Heres a pic I snapped at waterfest,


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
What?!?! No off-color, witty remarks dripping with contempt?? 
_...looks up to see if the sky is falling..._










Ya really... looks like dave's slipping in his old age.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (dvlax40)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dvlax40* »_still wanna se it in a CAR, not a head at a booth

That makes you and me both!







We have to start somewhere, though, right? Consider this progress. In 2000, I built my own ITB-equipped Mk1 Scirocco using Jenvey bodies and TEC2 management. In 2003, I used my college book money to found a parts supply company. Last year, I outsourced fabrication help to put together the ITBs you saw in Travis' photo. These used Gixxer bodies and may have worked fairly well. However, from a production point of view, they just weren't practical. Then, the bottom fell out of that project with all sorts of horrible complications. (Need I elaborate, people? I think most of you understand what I'm talking about.)
We recovered and set back to work earlier this year with a 100% original concept. Designs were drawn up. Tooling was designed. Materials investments were made. Labor hours were spent making prototypes and refining the approach. Initial production units have been manufactured, so the concept is now a reality.
We brought the parts to Waterfest and displayed them this weekend. Of course, the next step is to install kits on engines, tune, and report results. I'm super-excited to make it this far and really look forward to demonstrating the stuff in action. We just need time, money, and energy to do it.
Keep in mind that USRT is currently a two-person company (about to be three!) and that it takes 12 hour days and a lot of Ramen noodles to keep things chugging along. The big-rich companies may be able to throw lots of money at projects to make them evolve quickly. I, on the other hand, have to literally decide whether or not I can take a risk on developing parts or paying rent, eating, etc.
Your patience, constructive criticism, and ideas will all be highly appreciated. We'll surprise and delight the market yet again. I promise!


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (dvlax40)*

Well, let's give credit where it's do, eh? Perhaps it actually *is* time to get happy? The hardware HAS happened. Anybody that wants to run these ITBs with standalone management can go ahead and do so right now. Next, I think we'll begin testing witih CIS. Following that we'll start tweaking the factory ECUs. This will be quite a challenge but I'm up for it. How many companies push in directions like this? Come on, don't I get at least *some* cool points?


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Well, let's give credit where it's do, eh? Perhaps it actually *is* time to get happy? The hardware HAS happened. Anybody that wants to run these ITBs with standalone management can go ahead and do so right now. Next, I think we'll begin testing witih CIS. Following that we'll start tweaking the factory ECUs. This will be quite a challenge but I'm up for it. How many companies push in directions like this? Come on, don't I get at least *some* cool points?

















I'll give you this much, you sure do like to piss into the wind, scooter.


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## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

haha


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## speaker (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Anybody that wants to run these ITBs with standalone management can go ahead and do so right now. Next, I think we'll begin testing witih CIS. Following that we'll start tweaking the factory ECUs. This will be quite a challenge but I'm up for it. 

My day job is market & product development. If I could make a suggestion, look to where the greatest potential for volume sales are first then go to the lesser market(s). The high volume business will support you developing the niches later but the niches might not do enough business to keep your initial investment viable. Is the largest market going to be CIS or off the factory ECU? I don't know but I suspect you might have an instinct on that. Although not scientific, even a straw poll on applications might affirm your instincts.
Good Luck!


_Modified by speaker at 9:12 AM 7-24-2007_


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (speaker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speaker* »_Is the largest market going to be CIS or off the factory ECU? I don't know but I suspect you might have an instinct on that.

I believe that the 2.0l crossflow crowd is the largest and most lucrative market, actually. However, I also suspect that a fair amount of CIS folks will be interested. Very importantly, setting those engines up should be a no-brainer and will net us instant results. Meanwhile, integrating with Motronic management will be technically challenging and probably quite expensive. We'll report progress regardless of the path we select. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Scott, since you offering them for those with SEM, what does USRT offer rather than just getting them off ebay for cheap.
I guess that is the manufacturer for the ITB's selling them on there?
Not sure...


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

That's a reasonable question that I'm pleased to address: First of all, USRT has exclusive distribution rights for the VW/Audi market. Secondly, what we're offering right now includes more than just the bodies themselves. The manifold sections and adapter plates are included. Third, the main goal here is to provide the bits in drop-in packages. Ultimately, that will include everything to integrate with factory management systems, spec heads, etc. For those that do want to run standalone, we'll provide the ECUs pre-programmed and so on. We're well on our way to providing these value added kits that will finally make ITBs convenient and practical for the masses.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The manifold sections and adapter plates are included.

I gotcha, I quoted the part that I must have missed for immediate purchase.
I saw the stuff over the weekend, I am not sold on the whole ITB thing but I can say the set up manifold and adapter plates looked good. I am sure you guys will do well with these. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

How about offering a us a chance to put down a deposit on a kit to help you with initial cashflow?


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## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

*Re: (GaTeIg)*

i'm with gateig, this looks like a nice product from an engineering standpoint, it would be nice to see development continue, especially along the lines of being able to use motronic still (i like it what can i say).
keep up the good work and keep people here posted http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Da_Mount (Jan 20, 2003)

*Re: (MecE2.0)*

Truly interesting ..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (dvlax40)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dvlax40* »_yeah that would be a good idea execpt they did that with manifolds and when they couldnt keep up with orders impatient people started to bitcch ruining it for the rest of us









Taking deposits an be a risky thing and I won't do it until we feel ready. Sure, this will delay things, but the conservative approach is what I consider to be the safest and most responsible plan.
Btw, your summary of what happened before isn't really what occured. There was no problem keeping up with orders while the pieces were actually in production. Without getting into the gruesome details, our previous fabricator simply stopped making them without warning anybody. Those folks that did get impatient had a right to be so as they (and USRT) were strung along for months on end. Pre-payments were kept by said party which forced me to refund a few grand to customers out of pocket. It nearly put us under, but we kept the faith and are still pushing.
Btw, we showed off a 1.8T manifold prototype at Waterfest. The ONLY hold up for making these as well as those for the crossflow 8v is lack of investment capital (which was diverted to the ITBs). Jigs are made and materials have been sourced. As soon as we recoup some investment from our ITB project, it's on like Donkey Kong for the regular manifolds. We'll be back. Trust me. I know the community wants these kits from us.

P.S. I spent a good long while on the phone last night with our software developer. The critical Motronic ECU integration is going well. So, things are looking good as far as not having to use standalone management is concerned! With that said, I also spoke to 034 Motorsport and got their commitment to developing solutions for folks who do prefer to go in that direction.


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## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ The critical Motronic ECU integration is going well. So, things are looking good as far as not having to use standalone management is concerned! With that said, I also spoke to 034 Motorsport and got their commitment to developing solutions for folks who do prefer to go in that direction.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*plenum design*

In order for the ITBs to work with Motronic, we're going to need to add a plenum. Here is the design that we are shopping around for mass production right now:

The circular recesses in there will house the same "funnel" pieces that sit atop the current ITB sections.


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## GoesLikeSnail (Feb 3, 2006)

What modelling program is that (if you don't mind telling)?


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## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

Will the 034 efi standalone be managing the ITBs? Which stage and will the be a price break on these when ordering the ITBS? What are the specific advantages/disadvantages (in terms of ITB and in general over the stock computer? Thanks..


_Modified by GaTeIg at 12:28 PM 7-25-2007_


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

I like what it says about MKIV's in that model any ideas on the output from that?


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## lowa2 (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: plenum design ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_In order for the ITBs to work with Motronic, we're going to need to add a plenum. Here is the design that we are shopping around for mass production right now:

The circular recesses in there will house the same "funnel" pieces that sit atop the current ITB sections.

Minty.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (GaTeIg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoesLikeSnail* »_What modelling program is that (if you don't mind telling)?

Solid Works

_Quote, originally posted by *GaTeIg* »_Will the 034 efi standalone be managing the ITBs? Which stage and will the be a price break on these when ordering the ITBS? What are the specific advantages/disadvantages (in terms of ITB and in general over the stock computer? Thanks..

We haven't settled on the exact 034 management solutions, yet. The packages will certainly be priced advantageously. After all, the whole point with this project of ours is to make ITB integration convenient, easy, and practical from a cost/benefit point of view. It's been anything but until now. As for the specific advantages/disadvantages... that's a question that can be answered so many ways! The bottom line is that standalone can be tuned around any hardware set up. Factory ECU reprogramming is the domain of the expert engineers.
Btw, folks...

Muhahahaa!


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (dvlax40)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dvlax40* »_

lol so now our community has gone RICE>>>???









I am sorry but that is the stupidest thing I have heard on this forum in a long time. Please consider thinking before typing.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

The progress around here is rapid. We're REALLY devoting ourselves to making this concept work, guys. Naysayers will always be around to ride us -especially when we do make mistakes. However, the community has my word that USRT is pushing as hard as we can to deliver a practical product of outstanding quality.
Right now, we're challenging ourselves to produce a plenum system that will work with both our ITB systems *and* our long-dormant short runner intake kits. If we can share components between those two product lines we'll not only make it easy for consumers to upgrade from one to the other, we'll reduce production costs all around. This will help keep the kits affordable. USRT is the _"volkstuner"_ of community choice -not a bunch of oddball elitests who get off on not letting the masses enjoy the fun.
So... here ya go. This is the latest plenum concept that we're considering. This one would be made from extruded aluminum. The extra bank of injectors up top would be for the forced induction loony tunes. You could also run nitrous nozzles and fuel foggers, water/alcohol injection sprayers, etc. Figure that our signature rounded end tanks would be integrated into the final pieces.


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## MKIIIVWburg (Oct 21, 2004)

Sick absolutely sick, this setup is going on my built ABA, SICK scott, now get those grenade coolant bottles remade.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (MKIIIVWburg)*

Injectors that far from the stack on a boosted car with a side inlet could cause problems.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Injectors that far from the stack on a boosted car with a side inlet could cause problems.

Sure, there's always potential for uneven distribution. This is just a conceptual drawing and isn't necessarily to perfect scale, either. To address this concern we could...
a) Flatten the plenum into more of an oval shape to bring the injector tips down towards the stack openings with no other changes. (You'll see that the main opening is enormous! It probably doesn't need to be nearly that large to fit a conventional TB or to flow air to support 4x 45 - 50mm ITB plates.)
b) Extend the injectors deeper into the plenum area (which could cause an airflow disturbance).
c) Raise the stacks upwards towards the injectors (which could also impede flow).
There are always compromises to consider and that's exactly what we're doing now -considering different ideas and their relative qualities. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I'd just leave it and make people buy Motec and 4 O2 sensors.


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Why not instead use the common plenum and offer manifolds with two sets of injectors, like top and bottom? Manifold could be ITB OR SRI independant.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_I'd just leave it and make people buy Motec and 4 O2 sensors.

Yeah, then we could corner the market for all 4 people that will step up for something that nuts.







Actually, I forgot to mention the other fabrication posibility and that's to add a tapered subplenum to more evently distribute the air flow like this.


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_Why not instead use the common plenum and offer manifolds with two sets of injectors, like top and bottom? Manifold could be ITB OR SRI independant.

That's our exact intention. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
That's our exact intention. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Awesome. I definitely feel that would offer more "upgrade" options than injectors on the plenum. 
Want more fuel? Already have ITBs and "stage 2 plenum"? Change the lower runners for $200 and double your injector count. Comes with lower fuel rail


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*

Actually, the upper injectors would the secondaries. The primary injectors would remain in the "stock" location for throttle response, emissions, and drivability reasons.


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## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

So this would be like a Staged injection? The Plenum Injectors could be used for multiple Purposes right? alcohol injection?
Have you considered using them to Spray extra Fuel for NOS? With those new Progressive NOS controllers seems like a good way to make that 170WHP and do it on a bufget too!
Buttbump


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_So this would be like a Staged injection?

Yes, that's exactly what it's called.

_Quote »_The Plenum Injectors could be used for multiple Purposes right? alcohol injection?

You could mount fuel injectors up there as pictured. Pure methanol will destroy most actual fuel injectors, however. Adding bungs for water/alcohol injection would be as simple as drilling holes and tapping for 1/8" NPT threads.

_Quote »_Have you considered using them to Spray extra Fuel for NOS? With those new Progressive NOS controllers seems like a good way to make that 170WHP and do it on a bufget too!

Heck, yeah! You'll see a 250 shot nitrous oxide project emerge from our laboratory soon.







WAI + nitrous is a conceptual no brainer. One creates the need for the other. The other keeps the one under control. The result is that you go really damned fast while maintining total safety. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

scott-
for the MKIV AEG options how and where do you plan to start tackling the motronic manegment ? is this something that a 3rd party such as C2 motorsports may be better at taclking faster. Also I know these things take time but what sort of development time are we looking at here ? a year out or more? or within the year?


----------



## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
That makes you and me both!







We have to start somewhere, though, right? Consider this progress. In 2000, I built my own ITB-equipped Mk1 Scirocco using Jenvey bodies and TEC2 management. In 2003, I used my college book money to found a parts supply company. Last year, I outsourced fabrication help to put together the ITBs you saw in Travis' photo. These used Gixxer bodies and may have worked fairly well. However, from a production point of view, they just weren't practical. Then, the bottom fell out of that project with all sorts of horrible complications. (Need I elaborate, people? I think most of you understand what I'm talking about.)
We recovered and set back to work earlier this year with a 100% original concept. Designs were drawn up. Tooling was designed. Materials investments were made. Labor hours were spent making prototypes and refining the approach. Initial production units have been manufactured, so the concept is now a reality.
We brought the parts to Waterfest and displayed them this weekend. Of course, the next step is to install kits on engines, tune, and report results. I'm super-excited to make it this far and really look forward to demonstrating the stuff in action. We just need time, money, and energy to do it.
Keep in mind that USRT is currently a two-person company (about to be three!) and that it takes 12 hour days and a lot of Ramen noodles to keep things chugging along. The big-rich companies may be able to throw lots of money at projects to make them evolve quickly. I, on the other hand, have to literally decide whether or not I can take a risk on developing parts or paying rent, eating, etc.
Your patience, constructive criticism, and ideas will all be highly appreciated. We'll surprise and delight the market yet again. I promise!










A M E N Scott!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif People forget that there are little companies out there too (Not calling you a little company if Eurotuner interested in your products) It's not easy and i know first hand. I see all the great companies out with brand new MKV's with cazillion bucks invested & the shop projects i'm building are coming out my pocket & when you have to pay rent, electric, phone bills, vendors first, the projects your building become not so important. I also totally understand the direction your going. You know i've been working on a turbo kit for the last 3 yrs. I'm so glad we now have an in-house fabricator complete with a full machine shop so we've been working on a few things over the past 8 months. This is all coming out my pocket. I applaud you for being where your at today. I remember when you were just starting out. I can't wait to see what you come out with next. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BTW, i missed you again this yr @ waterfest







I got there super late


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (I Wuz BottlFedG60)*

I've never understood the ones that try to pull you down to the depths of dispare with them, but if someone if willing to do what it takes to make something happen it usually does! The world is full of examples of those who stuck their necks out, got walked on, but in the end had the last laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Keep up the good work!








Buttbump


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_for the MKIV AEG options how and where do you plan to start tackling the motronic manegment?

We're going along the path of least resistance and biggest market. So, first we'll hit the OBD1 ABAs. Then comes the OBD2 ABA which has the more challenging throttlebody/TPS systems to contend with. Following that, we'll look at the Mk4 drive by cable engines. The grail will be the DBW (which is also a concern for the later 1.8T crowd). Then again, if we get a lucky break and another company (or privateer) helps us, we might change up the order. Right now, we're completely on our own (as usual). 
Surely, before any Motronic development occurs, though, we've got to sort out the intake plenum solution. This is both a technical challenge for us as well as a marketing concern. We'd really like to produce one set up that can be used in our ITB kits *and* regular intake manifolds.

_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_is this something that a 3rd party such as C2 motorsports may be better at taclking faster. Also I know these things take time but what sort of development time are we looking at here ? a year out or more? or within the year?

This is definitely something of the sort that C2 could help with and that's the sort of direction that we're headed. We've got preliminary pricing/business terms hashed out already. We're also waiting on information and terms from 034 Motorsport with regards to standalone integration.
As for a timeline, we'll definitely have some serious momentum built within the next couple of months. The hardware is ready to bolt onto a standalone managed car as we speak. I'll announce an opportunity for folks to get developer deals very soon. Said parties will provide their car and we'll set them up with the ITB kits, standalone, tuning, and such for a ridiculous deal. Motronic tuning will be the next step.

_Quote, originally posted by *I Wuz BottlFedG60* »_People forget that there are little companies out there too (Not calling you a little company if Eurotuner interested in your products)

USRT has grown by leaps and bounds in the last couple of years. However, there are still only TWO people here at this time. Yes, we're "little", teeny *tiny*, whatever. Just imagine what we could do if we had more hands and resources.







Hopefully, I can hire another guy here within the next month or so. Who wants to help us? We're always looking for project assistance and getting the word out!

_Quote, originally posted by *I Wuz BottlFedG60* »_I applaud you for being where your at today. I remember when you were just starting out. I can't wait to see what you come out with next. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Thanks, my man. I really appreciate the warm sentiments.









_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_I've never understood the ones that try to pull you down to the depths of despair with them, but if someone if willing to do what it takes to make something happen it usually does! The world is full of examples of those who stuck their necks out, got walked on, but in the end had the last laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








 
It feels great to get some positive acknowledgement!!!














The Chinese have an expression: _"The nail that sticks out is the one that gets hammered."_ Well, that would be USRT because we love to innovate and prove new ways of doing things. It really stems from my personality as well as our diminutive company size. We just can't step up, do a $250k buy-in, for instance, and sell the mass market products profitably. So, we pick our niche market battles and march from there.
For example, a short while ago we had to convince folks that injector spray pattern was very important to proper engine operation. Now, it's taken for granted and the Genesis injector line is officially supported by the software tuners like GIAC, REVO, etc. Dealers distribute these bits globally. Another example is water/alcohol injection. We've been preaching that gospel since 2001 and only within the last year have I finally succeeded in taking it mainstream in the VAG tuning scene. Folks swore it would hydrolock engines or rust the internals. They said it was "fake octane" and would allow detonation, etc. I'd point to WRC cars relying on it and VW zealots said that was because the Japanese engines were inferior and needed it whereas the VW engines didn't.







(I never knew SEAT and Skoda were Japanese cars, but oh well.) Anyway, now it's hard to keep the stuff on the shelf!








We'll keep on doing what we do best. That means bucking the trends and ignoring the status quo. We won't always be successful. We will surely take heat from the naysayers. Ultimately, though, I really think we're going to take over the damned tuner world. It might take years, but I just won't quit. I'm stubborn like that.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

thats for the answers now stop posting and keep working, jk. I love the updated. I would love to build a AEG NA 175HP motor.


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (dvlax40)*

What does it take to be a True A$$ Hole! Yeah being negative, coward and hiding behind a Computer! 
We use to like little Dudes like you in Prison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








Buttbump


----------



## all motor 8 valve (Jun 2, 2006)

*Re: (dvlax40)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dvlax40* »_ pretty sure thats a japenese saying














but i have to becarefull this might get deleated by the post nazi... no post for you









I can see why tdogg74 rags on you so much...you're an effing moron. Quit posting stupid crap in everyone's post. You act like a 14 year old. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif You should go back to the MKIV forum where you belong.


----------



## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

all motor 8 valve DONT even think for one second that i dont know who you are lol


----------



## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

im being negative??? all i said was it looked rice, which is personal oppinion and contructive critisism, seriously non of my posts have been that offensive to warrant them being erased... you guys talk smack to me and i dont really say anthing back , yet im the one getting called a 14 yearold??? its just weird that so many "adults" would act like this..... and now back to the post........nice itbs


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (ejg3855)*

Well, yesterday Mendra stopped over to pick up some Motul motor oil. While here was here, I snapped some photos of his Mk3's 20v ITB set up. Btw, the manifold that he's attached his Jenvey throttle sections to is the same piece that USRT is using in our kits. Those are Genesis 380cc injectors in there, btw.

And... here's one of our short runner intake manifolds held in position to show off an example what we'll eventually package with the ITBS to allow for Motronic and CIS management.


----------



## speaker (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
USRT has grown by leaps and bounds in the last couple of years. However, there are still only TWO people here at this time.
Another example is water/alcohol injection. We've been preaching that gospel since 2001 and only within the last year have I finally succeeded in taking it mainstream in the VAG tuning scene. Folks swore it would hydrolock engines or rust the internals. They said it was "fake octane" and would allow detonation, etc. I'd point to WRC cars relying on it and VW zealots said that was because the Japanese engines were inferior and needed it whereas the VW engines didn't.







(I never knew SEAT and Skoda were Japanese cars, but oh well.) Anyway, now it's hard to keep the stuff on the shelf!









Under promise and over deliver. If you don't promise too much no one will be surprised because you have so few to help. If you then deliver beyond what you said, you are a hero. Too often people promise the world only to deliver an island.
As an aside, the circle has sure come around on water injection. I had it on a turbocharged car over 25 years ago to compensate for higher boost (maybe 9 lbs.







) and slightly advanced timing without ping. It used windshield washer fluid and throttle arm switch to kick it in at WOT. I think the kit was made by Spearco. It worked pretty well too.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (Sc[email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_While here was here, I snapped some photos of his Mk3's 20v ITB set up.

If anyone is interested in similar build...
Joe Pinto from The Race Shop built and installed the engine/trans.
(screen name: race-shop joe)
Paul Keirnan from K&P Perfromance built and tuned the MegaSquirt.
(screen name: need_a_vr6)
They both do great work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_Paul Keirnan from K&P Perfromance built and tuned the MegaSquirt.
(screen name: need_a_vr6)
They both do great work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Actually, I provided Mendra's ECU and original fuel system bits. Paul's been instrumental in other ways, though. He's spec'd and built enough MS systems to get the job done for anybody else. He's the real deal and I'd point anybody to him.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
If anyone is interested in similar build...
Joe Pinto from The Race Shop built and installed the engine/trans.
(screen name: race-shop joe)
Paul Keirnan from K&P Perfromance built and tuned the MegaSquirt.
(screen name: need_a_vr6)
They both do great work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Listed correctly -
I researched the 20/20 and sourced all the parts.
Joe from the Race-Shop built, the complete motor while blueprinting every thing to exact specs, he also sourced the necessary machine work.
Joe also converted the tranny from a VR6 bell housing to the G60 bell housing while changing the R&P and 5th gear. Joe installed the motor and tranny.
USRT was where I got my Megasquirt, wideband o2sensor and fuel injectors as well as initial tune on the motor when it was an ITB'd 8v as well as ordering my custom pistons.
Paul calculated the specs for my piston design as well as for my tuned equal length header and spliced the Megasquirt into the wiring harness, helped me fine tune it, I did a lot of the cruise tuning, Paul tuned the WOT and 1st dyno session, then helped me sort out the accel enrichment / response. Paul has been working with me to fine tune the 20v. Paul has been instrumental in adding additional circuits on my Megasquirt (Tach output, fan control) and he is a wiring god.
Nate Dog Creations in Lansdale PA made my custom header with runner lengths calculated by Paul. Nate also made my custom catch can along with a couple things that are coming in the upcoming weeks.



_Modified by WolfGTI at 8:55 AM 7-30-2007_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (WolfGTI)*

Thanks, Mendra. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If anyone is interested in full Megasquirt based solutions, let me know.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Thanks, Mendra. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If anyone is interested in full Megasquirt based solutions, let me know.









You have a PM.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
You have a PM.









Crap, more work.


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

I WANT ONE SOOOO BAD!!


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

on the new itb set up, will it have the porting to run vac lines to the brake booster?


----------



## lowa2 (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_on the new itb set up, will it have the porting to run vac lines to the brake booster?

you would probably have to run a vaccum canister, a nice chromey one or something, then to the brake booster.
bump.


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## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

by the way, when are we gonna get some prices for this hottie? i know its still in the works buta ball park would be nice










_Modified by greeneco.GTI at 6:52 PM 8-1-2007_


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_by the way, when are we gonna get some prices for this hottie? i know its still in the works buta ball park would be nice









_Modified by greeneco.GTI at 6:52 PM 8-1-2007_

Do you have the money?








More than a toaster, less than a ferrari... There's a ballpark.


----------



## ricecart (Jul 11, 2007)

i was wondering... i have a 2.0 8v and was thinking of doing a custom turbo kit. would i still be able to use the ITB?


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## 8valvesofFURY (Dec 31, 2006)

*Re: (ricecart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ricecart* »_i was wondering... i have a 2.0 8v and was thinking of doing a custom turbo kit. would i still be able to use the ITB?
read the thread


----------



## vwishndaetr (Aug 8, 2006)

*Re: (ricecart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ricecart* »_i was wondering... i have a 2.0 8v and was thinking of doing a custom turbo kit. would i still be able to use the ITB?

This made me giggle ...
But anyways, I read every post in this entire thread and I think this will be awesome. Of course im an 18 year old kid that doesnt have money for such a thing but I love seeing stuff like this come to be, its exciting. I will definatley be looking into this alot more. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (vwishndaetr)*

I saw the set-ups at waterfest and they had a Port built into the Manifold for Power brakes! If your running a MAP sensor "Standalone" you never want to run the MAP and FPR with anything else as you want this signal as clean as possible, and always run a Vacuum resivoir/log to help dampen engine pulses that is transmitted through the Vacuum signal!
"Jr" 18 yr old Kid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You keep wishing! That's as big a part of geting what you want as Money is!








Buttbump


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_on the new itb set up, will it have the porting to run vac lines to the brake booster?

*BlizzzzOW!* Here's what the bottom of the ITBs look like with the vacuum log.

I'll answer questions about pricing and such later. We've got a shipment of cast manifold sections coming to us now, btw. So, we're not too far away from entering sales mode. We've also settled on some plenum designs which will be be integrated into the standard short runner manifold program. Yep, we're getting close, folks. -real close!


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

sweet motha of.....


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## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

Dem Some beaches Purrtty ain't they??????????????







Make an old man get hard of hearing!








Buttbump


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (buttbump)*

i so want these on my car. boost and ITB's ... what a combination.


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

I wish I wasn't last in line.... DBW mk4...


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_I wish I wasn't last in line.... DBW mk4...

Teeheehee... isn't it just _delicious_ that the Mk4 guys finally have to wait for something fun? It's like the USDM getting the big engine while Europe sits tight and hopes.


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Buy by that anaolgy all the US guys wait while the Euro guys get all the cool stylings....
Plus, aren't the mk4 guys always the last to get their cake?

Hell, I wouldn't even need software. Just a way to get dbw to work with the itbs...


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 3:54 PM 8-2-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_Plus, aren't the mk4 guys always the last to get their cake?

The Mk4 cars in general are definitely *not* the underdogs in the tuning scene. Then again, you have a point there if you're talking about the 2.0l 8v engine specifically. Still, I'm really an A1-chassis devotee at heart. My beloved rides haven't seen much aftermarket support in 15 years! Meanwhile, everything after 1984 is that "new stuff" in my oldskool mind.







Anyway, we'll sort you out real proppa like. Just give us some time.









_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_Hell, I wouldn't even need software. Just a way to get dbw to work with the itbs...

That's largely a computer control issue. How do you figure you wouldn't otherwise need software, anyway?


----------



## 8valvesofFURY (Dec 31, 2006)

post more pics please!


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The Mk4 cars in general are definitely *not* the underdogs in the tuning scene. Then again, you have a point there if you're talking about the 2.0l 8v engine specifically. Still, I'm really an A1-chassis devotee at heart. My beloved rides haven't seen much aftermarket support in 15 years! Meanwhile, everything after 1984 is that "new stuff" in my oldskool mind.







Anyway, we'll sort you out real proppa like. Just give us some time.









There are other mk4's besides the 2.0? Just suprise me, please http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Oh, and make sure that plenum can handle LOTS of boost

_Quote »_That's largely a computer control issue. How do you figure you wouldn't otherwise need software, anyway?

well by the time I'm ready to take my car down to c2 for a custom tune, this product should be close to on the market







I'll let them deal with it









_Modified by pwnt by pat at 5:16 PM 8-2-2007_


_Modified by pwnt by pat at 5:18 PM 8-2-2007_


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
Do you have the money?








More than a toaster, less than a ferrari... There's a ballpark.

well aren't you just a wealth of information. simple question man, no need for an attitude.


_Modified by greeneco.GTI at 7:05 PM 8-2-2007_


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## 8valvesofFURY (Dec 31, 2006)

its going to be like $600-$2000 im guessing


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## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_
well aren't you just a wealth of information. simple question man, no need for an attitude.

_Modified by greeneco.GTI at 7:05 PM 8-2-2007_
 wow dude you obviously dont know who your talking to with only 80 posts... jeff has an absolute wealth of knowlage as well as travis( cant believe im giving you a compliment ) so yeah just calm down, pricing will be NO less then a grand no more then 5


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (dvlax40)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dvlax40* »_ wow dude you obviously dont know who your talking to with only 80 posts... jeff has an absolute wealth of knowlage as well as travis( cant believe im giving you a compliment ) so yeah just calm down, pricing will be NO less then a grand no more then 5
you know you cant rate people by post count son....


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_you know you cant rate people by post count son....

seriously. People would actually think that I know what I am talking about.


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## 8valvesofFURY (Dec 31, 2006)

who cares about post count blah blah MORE TALK ABOUT ITBS! i want i want!


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## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

i was judging by his low post count that he doesnt know jeff and all the **** that jeff really knows, and yes, those itb.s with the vac line set up are lookin sweet


----------



## HedG (Aug 29, 2003)

what exactly are the complications for running
the itbs of a chip on the mk3 obd2 platform vs obd1


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_
well aren't you just a wealth of information. simple question man, no need for an attitude.

_Modified by greeneco.GTI at 7:05 PM 8-2-2007_

It's not attitude... It was stated several times in the thread that the pricing is not available... as in, they don't have a ballpark they are willing to release.
I could give you a number from my head, but it's all just a guess. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (HedG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HedG* »_what exactly are the complications for running
the itbs of a chip on the mk3 obd2 platform vs obd1

For both you need a plenum and a MAF. OBD2 gets trickier as you don't have the external idle valve and the circuitry in the ECU itself isn't powerful enough to drive a larger one like the OBD1 idle valve. So I think that's the biggest hurdle, other then what's obvious.


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
It's not attitude... It was stated several times in the thread that the pricing is not available... as in, they don't have a ballpark they are willing to release.
I could give you a number from my head, but it's all just a guess. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

understood. i should have read the rest of the thread and not just the first and last page. my fault.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_
understood. i should have read the rest of the thread and not just the first and last page. my fault.

It's all good, bud... Nothing to apologise for. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And, yes, again, pricing is up to scott to give whenever he feels he's ready. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And, no, post count doesn't really mean anything as to how much you know. but, it does give an idication of how often you have something useful to say, and of how much free time you have



_Modified by ABF Jeff at 7:18 PM 8-3-2007_


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## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

duely noted


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Actually, I provided Mendra's ECU and original fuel system bits. Paul's been instrumental in other ways, though. He's spec'd and built enough MS systems to get the job done for anybody else. He's the real deal and I'd point anybody to him.
















Sorry about that, Paul does a lot of MS installs, build, tunes, etc., etc., it's hard to keep it all straight. I just wanted to see some people get recognized for their effort and work as it seems almost none existant in the forums and posts I have come accrossed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by billyVR6 at 11:26 PM 8-3-2007_


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## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

thread kinda slowed a bit. any sweet new updates?


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*

Yeah Chop chop!








Buttbump


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_Yeah Chop chop!








Buttbump









keep your eyes open.


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

This post is for all the people who are excited (like me) and quickly clicked this link thinking something intelligent was typed.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (bugasm99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_This post is for all the people who are excited (like me) and quickly clicked this link thinking something intelligent was typed.

waste of a post. working on it, ok!


----------



## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

yeah haha jeffs been busy


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Well eventhough I got the MK4 I am still excited for you MK3 guys! Very big news for you...
I guess my USRT SRI is just gonna have to hold me over till either they build the ITB for me or I buy my own fabrication equipment and start stabbing stuff myself! hahaha


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
waste of a post. working on it, ok!

oh I know, I've been talking to Scott. Good people make good things happen.


----------



## lowa2 (Sep 7, 2005)

*Re: (bugasm99)*

USRT FTW.
Great Peoples and great stuff.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_Well eventhough I got the MK4 I am still excited for you MK3 guys! Very big news for you...

If all goes to plan, the MKIV 2.0L kits will be ready at the same time. I'm working hard with scott to get these things on the road. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

x2^^^^ sorry i couldnt get up there the other day jeff, i had to finish the table before my friends went off to college haha


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
If all goes to plan, the MKIV 2.0L kits will be ready at the same time. I'm working hard with scott to get these things on the road. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Very cool... Hopefully it won't cost too much more than the MK3.
Even though I already dumped out some cash for the SRI I still think I'd be willing to sell it for the ITB setup when the time comes.


----------



## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
If all goes to plan, the MKIV 2.0L kits will be ready at the same time. I'm working hard with scott to get these things on the road. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Just curious: What are the specific issues in making these mk4 happy (for the AEGS)?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (GaTeIg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GaTeIg* »_
Just curious: What are the specific issues in making these mk4 happy (for the AEGS)?

As far as I can tell at this stage, just space. If you look at the difference between the MKIII and MKIV SRI's, you'll notice the MKIV SRI is tapered to clear the alternator. Tuning shouldn't be much different, really. As far as cost difference... nobody knows yet.


----------



## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Sort of a side question, since the ITB system is first going to be implemented for cars using standalone. Can an OBDII car with standalone pass emissions? (ie the plug and play, code checks, not tailpipe)
Not that I'm anywhere close to getting standalone yet, but I was just curious as I plot out options for the future of my daily driver.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Neckromacr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Neckromacr* »_Sort of a side question, since the ITB system is first going to be implemented for cars using standalone. Can an OBDII car with standalone pass emissions? (ie the plug and play, code checks, not tailpipe)
Not that I'm anywhere close to getting standalone yet, but I was just curious as I plot out options for the future of my daily driver.

well.... Standalone managed cars will not pass the scantool test. You'd need chipped stock management. That's part of why it'd designed the way it is.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

Hey, folks. Thanks for the continued interest, well wishes, and general support. The project has entered the stage where most of the work is being done behind the scenes. The hardware is fun to show off and gets lots of eyeball attention, of course.







The real make it or break it part of the project is upon us now, but it won't produce much eye candy to look at for at least a week or two.
Right now, Jeff is working on integrating the tricky OBD2 throttle position sensor/idle air control set up, building plenums to allow Motronic (and CIS) management to work, going over the logistics for Motronic tuning, etc. We're also R&Ding drive by wire! If we can get that figured out (and yes... we're making steady progress), then the ITB world is our damned oyster.









_Quote, originally posted by *Neckromacr* »_Can an OBDII car with standalone pass emissions? (ie the plug and play, code checks, not tailpipe)


If your State's inspection demands OBD2 functionality (as most but not all do), then you will instantly fail with a standalone system. We're working with 034 Motorsport on more or less plug-in packages, though, that could be installed or reversed within a couple of hours. Still, the big market is with Motronic control and that's why we're putting most of our eggs in that basket.


----------



## Cabrio60 (Oct 14, 2006)

Awesome, thanks for the update.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MKIIIVWburg (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
If anyone is interested in similar build...
Joe Pinto from The Race Shop built and installed the engine/trans.
(screen name: race-shop joe)
*Paul Keirnan from K&P Perfromance built and tuned the MegaSquirt.
(screen name: need_a_vr6)*
They both do great work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yes he does, super nice guy.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

You know, if you need anymore on-vehicle tests, I would be more than happy to bolt a set up to my race car.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Right now, Jeff is working on integrating the tricky OBD2 throttle position sensor/idle air control set up, building plenums to allow Motronic (and CIS) management to work, going over the logistics for Motronic tuning, etc. We're also R&Ding drive by wire! If we can get that figured out (and yes... we're making steady progress), then the ITB world is our damned oyster. 

Why is this taking so long? I would have had it done already if you found me a car


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Why is this taking so long? I would have had it done already if you found me a car 









cant rush perfection man.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Why is this taking so long? I would have had it done already if you found me a car 









try 4 cars.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

its been a couple weeks any new exciting info?
Just wondering how the Motronic develpment is comming.


_Modified by ejg3855 at 12:01 AM 9-6-2007_


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

guess not.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_guess not.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

its going to be one giagantor release of information all at once!


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_its going to be one giagantor release of information all at once!
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You won't get any more info than you guys have until its ready.


----------



## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Any updates?


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (GaTeIg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GaTeIg* »_Any updates?









look up one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_
look up one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

he was poking fun at me...


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
he was poking fun at me...









oh gocha


----------



## Iceman5715 (Jan 8, 2007)

this thing looks nasty... i want it


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

I want it plus a turbo mmmm yummy....


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

http://extrudabody.com/about_us.html
Why not just grab them direct from the source and skip the wait... 
Also, that side feed plenum with the injectors across from the inlets is an explosion waiting to happen. Can you say fuel puddling, anyone? 


_Modified by fast_a2_20v at 8:19 AM 9-20-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_Why not just grab them direct from the source and skip the wait...
 
Peter, USRT has been instrumental in developing this solution for the VW/Audi market. We have *exclusive distribution rights* for the product. Never have we attemped to distract consumers from the source. Our partner, Extrudabody, is mentioned in almost every post we make as a courtesy to them and also to help grow their brand in the VAG community. USRT has nothing to lose and everything to gain from the exposure.
To answer your last question, what folks are really waiting for are bolt-on solutions including support for the factory ECU. ITB kits abound in the market already. If all people wanted was hardware they'd have purchased it already from some place else.

_Quote »_Also, that side feed plenum with the injectors across from the inlets is an explosion waiting to happen. Can you say fuel puddling, anyone?

Your criticism is entirely valid. The image that you are referring to is simply a conceptual and does not represent a finished product whatsoever. Thanks for the input.


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

Mainly because when you call extrudabody they direct you back to USRT to purchase product for VW Water cooled Stuff! I called them!
Explosion? Why don't new Honda Bikes explode? They have staged injection with secondary injectors in the Air Horns! You better know what your doing that is for sure!
Butt Bump


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_Explosion? Why don't new Honda Bikes explode? They have staged injection with secondary injectors in the Air Horns!

Yep, it's all about the engineering, obviously. That's exactly what USRT is doing right now. We're ironing out design, production, and financial details. There's far more to this effort than just banging out some parts. Intake manifold explosions will not be part of the kit's feature list.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

are we coming close to an end of a wait?


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*

hmm interesting,I like how you guys are trying to integrate it with motronic..........I mean I could have a allmost legal aba 16v combo on itb's pass the smog plug in check








my yellow sticker from 03 wont pass for a 08 in nj for much longer







I dont know if you guys will have the finances to get it truely legal cert but heck this should be close enough to get by for most outside of cali


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *not SoQuick* »_hmm interesting,I like how you guys are trying to integrate it with motronic..........I mean I could have a allmost legal aba 16v combo on itb's pass the smog plug in check








my yellow sticker from 03 wont pass for a 08 in nj for much longer







I dont know if you guys will have the finances to get it truely legal cert but heck this should be close enough to get by for most outside of cali









Ya, CARB cert is almost imposible to get with something like this... this Motronic integration is kicking my butt...


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

jeff- if you need any help w/ getting the OBD1 to work, just give me a call.
OBD2...you are on your own, OBD1 is easy


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (hkk735)*

obd-2 is what I would be interested in







I have to do something to get my car semi legal in the near future







while keeping it fun to drive.
if you guys are looking for a obd2 platform for testing I'd be willing


----------



## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

no shiit obd 1 is easy haha


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (dvlax40)*

Regardless of which setup is easier, I'm working hard to get them all right.
I have the process and parts nailed down now, I'll throw up some pics once I get the final pieces done, shouldn't be too much longer before we'll have something new to show you guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jphive (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Intake manifold explosions will not be part of the kit's feature list.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif



Ah, darn it... I was looking forward to those so i could be just like the F&F






















The product looks sick man can't wait till you get all the details ironed out. I wants it, it's my precious.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I like the way you handled that Scott... personally I would flown off the handle and started cursing... but you got poise brotha! Nice


----------



## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Regardless of which setup is easier, I'm working hard to get them all right.
I have the process and parts nailed down now, I'll throw up some pics once I get the final pieces done, shouldn't be too much longer before we'll have something new to show you guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

MK4 DBC first pwease.


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (GaTeIg)*

I wanna See some Progress Pictures DAMNIT!








Buttbump


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (buttbump)*

Back to the top, going into a new stage of this project, should have a test vehicle up and running shortly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Scott is really motivated to get this stuff out, we know you guys are dying to see it run. The AZ section of the project will be online and we'll have some pretty pictures and some vids for you all to drool over...
Start saving your money, we're getting close, guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

Bump.......... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 91CorradoG60 (Feb 26, 2007)

Updates?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (91CorradoG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *91CorradoG60* »_Updates?

Well, my last post was yesterday, so I guess you could look at that... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

has any development or thought gome into ME 7.? what ever the AEG runs?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_has any development or thought gome into ME 7.? what ever the AEG runs?

The only 2.0 I'm not personally handling is DBW, there's a lot more to sort out in that setup... the big three right now are OBDI, OBDII (5.9, 96-99) and DBC MKIV. Although the same principals apply to DBW, the software is not as far ahead as the cable cars.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
The only 2.0 I'm not personally handling is DBW, there's a lot more to sort out in that setup... the big three right now are OBDI, OBDII (5.9, 96-99) and DBC MKIV. Although the same principals apply to DBW, the software is not as far ahead as the cable cars.


reading this leads me to believe that there is a feasable DBC AEG option in the works. by in the works I mean started.







to jeff


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_ 

reading this leads me to believe that there is a feasable DBC AEG option in the works. by in the works I mean started.







to jeff

The AEG is actually really similar to the MKIII OBDII setup... even the software is quite similar. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

on a scale of 1 - 10, with 10 being software is done. Where abouts would you say you are?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_on a scale of 1 - 10, with 10 being software is done. Where abouts would you say you are?

software? software can be done in a day or two, it's the integration of the throttle body to Motronic that I'm working on. After a few tests in the next week or so, that'll be done.
I hesitate to give any kind of progress reports on that level, since it's not my part in the play, keep on your toes, though, I can assure you it's now moving forward quickly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

sounds great keep up the good work, thx.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_ reading this leads me to believe that there is a feasable DBC AEG option in the works. by in the works I mean started.







to jeff

I traveled internationally over the Labor Day weekend to discuss Motronic 7.x software tuning. This is absolutely 100% in the works.

_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_on a scale of 1 - 10, with 10 being software is done. Where abouts would you say you are?

I'd say we're somewhere around the 7 mark. Plenums must be finished (easy) and Jeff needs to finish up his TPS project (challenging). Once that's done it's straight to software (holy grail). This is certainly the homestretch but what's going on is hardcore. Patience younga grassahoppas...


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Whos up on Monday Morning, making AEG software?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_Whos up on Monday Morning, making AEG software?


Ya... AEG is one of the main markets... why skip out on them?


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

First Plenum will be finished by friday oct 5th.


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_First Plenum will be finished by friday oct 5th.

wanna put it on my car???


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (bugasm99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_
wanna put it on my car???









It's mine...


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_
wanna put it on my car???










_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
It's mine...

We`ll see what goes has gone down as far as whos going to be doing the programming for them. Im just gonna build a shell around whatever ECU they need ME5 or ME7 and hand it over running on some baseline tunes of my own. Turbo cars will be next. Ive got the prefect contender for that show.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_
We`ll see what goes has gone down as far as whos going to be doing the programming for them. Im just gonna build a shell around whatever ECU they need ME5 or ME7 and hand it over running on some baseline tunes of my own. Turbo cars will be next. Ive got the prefect contender for that show.

I'm going after travis's numbers on a budget...


----------



## _pineapplegti_ (Apr 26, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

YAY


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

hows my christmas present comming?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_hows my christmas present comming?

Coming right along.... we're all working hard on this one. I've got a few other shiney bits for your stocking as well... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

do we have any word on NA power for this for applications that are balls out race head work.


----------



## midwestjetta (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

so i keep running the idea of grabbing these up through my head when im ready
but one thing that keeps popping into my head is, am i going to be able to run these with chip tuning and some bigger injectors?
or am i gonna have to go standalone?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (midwestjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_do we have any word on NA power for this for applications that are balls out race head work.

Well, *we* do, but you don't.









_Quote, originally posted by *midwestjetta* »_but one thing that keeps popping into my head is, am i going to be able to run these with chip tuning and some bigger injectors?

There are now *three* software companies negotiating to support the Motronic ECUs. One of them has a particular and specific interest in DBW. Digifant software is not under development at this time.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Well, *we* do, but you don't. 


Would you like to share with the masses? Last I read was you guys were close to prototype installation phase of the project.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ 
There are now *three* software companies negotiating to support the Motronic ECUs. One of them has a particular and specific interest in DBW. Digifant software is not under development at this time.

Would one be willing to endulge whom it doing the ME7 software, I thought ABF Jeff had a hand in this? Will it be a chip ? Since in theroy more even air will get to the engine its plausable that more fuel will be needed correct will stock injectors be within duty cycle at these rates? Do we feel head work is a *must* if going for NA power?
Please keep my CEL off


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_do we have any word on NA power for this for applications that are balls out race head work.

Are you looking for that type of headwork?


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
Are you looking for that type of headwork?

I meant to say not hard core head work sry type-o. wondering about simple headwork, stage 1 and cam nothing to crazy.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Correct me if Im wrong, but I believe this ITB set-up is being designed to work with large duration cams, i.e. 276*,288*. Port work in the head is, IMHO, going to be a must to run this setup. Stock head + cam would be a waste of time.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

i agree but they must be thinking something if they are developing this for the ME7 MkIV bc anything greater than a 266 will pretty much throw a CEL.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_Would one be willing to endulge whom it doing the ME7 software, I thought ABF Jeff had a hand in this? Will it be a chip ? Since in theroy more even air will get to the engine its plausable that more fuel will be needed correct will stock injectors be within duty cycle at these rates? Do we feel head work is a *must* if going for NA power?
Please keep my CEL off










I've got nothing directly to do with the software... just the provisions needed to integrate the OBDII ecu into these TBs. More R&D than anything, and I will be providing a few of the components needed for the production kits. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Aquiring the raw materials and going through multiple trials of fitment and fabriction is what had held me up, but that's all solved now.
You'll have to verify with scott, but I believe he's shooting to have a full mockup to bring to SEMA.


_Modified by ABF Jeff at 8:33 AM 10-13-2007_


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Stock head + cam would be a waste of time.

I hear you, but let's see it. I honestly think that the manifold is a large choke point, remove it all and run the throttles. At the least it's a solid base and would be able to sway towards the same crowd that puts the NS blower on there, bolt on power without craking into the engine. That would just be another target in the world of marketing claims and sales.
I personally would love to back to back this as best as possible against a built plenum manifold. It could get very interesting to say the least.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

A bone stock OBDII head w/ stock valve springs, with only a TT276* cam, GIAC "cam program" chip, and a TT hiflow cat will put down 119whp on a DynoDynamics dyno. 
The choke point there is the amount of air the stock head can flow. Those shrouds in the ports really kill the flow capability up top. You would have less of an issue with the OBDI head, but they only flow marginally more than the OBDII. You're over-camming the head without it being ported.
I've already proved the stock intake manifold is a restriction past 4000rpms. But, you put that ITB setup in without running a larger cam and head work, you're going to shunt yourself a considerable amount of potential horsepower. Not only that, but the software, injector size, and MAF calibration will be for the flow charactaristics of a big cam and a worked head.


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

I will write some thoughts on all that later... maybe.
Time to take the little one out to play in the park. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

This product's greatest asset is that it will be retaining the stock management... Motronic is one of the best OEM management systems out there, granted it's bosch, but it's incredibly adaptable.
Having the chip burnt mainly for modded engines isn't going to shunt a more stock engine at all... it will still give it all the timing and fuel it can handle, and that's the goal...
Your chip is pretty aggressive, travis, a lot more aggressive than you really NEED. So, that's kinda where this setup is. So if you buy this kit and use it on an otherwise stock OBDII ABA, every mod you do after that will gain you much more than it would without them... so a header might gain you 5hp on an otherwise stock ABA, but with the ITB's, it could be closer to 7. Not much on a small part, but how about head and cam... take your stock cam and head, swap it out for a big valve OBDI fully built head with a 288, you could gain as much as 40whp, that's impressive for an ABA.
they could be the final addition to an already hot 2.0L or the mod you build the rest of the engine around.
Very versital, and you'll be able to pass emissions and stock drivability. I'd say it's the ultimate mod. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## midwestjetta (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

i want these now
but im sure the price will stop me


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (midwestjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *midwestjetta* »_i want these now
but im sure the price will stop me

You'll be suprised, I'm sure. you can probably buy a set without management right now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_This product's greatest asset is that it will be retaining the stock management... Motronic is one of the best OEM management systems out there, granted it's bosch, but it's incredibly adaptable.
Having the chip burnt mainly for modded engines isn't going to shunt a more stock engine at all... it will still give it all the timing and fuel it can handle, and that's the goal...
Your chip is pretty aggressive, travis, a lot more aggressive than you really NEED. So, that's kinda where this setup is. So if you buy this kit and use it on an otherwise stock OBDII ABA, every mod you do after that will gain you much more than it would without them... so a header might gain you 5hp on an otherwise stock ABA, but with the ITB's, it could be closer to 7. Not much on a small part, but how about head and cam... take your stock cam and head, swap it out for a big valve OBDI fully built head with a 288, you could gain as much as 40whp, that's impressive for an ABA.
they could be the final addition to an already hot 2.0L or the mod you build the rest of the engine around.
Very versital, and you'll be able to pass emissions and stock drivability. I'd say it's the ultimate mod. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Blah blah blah....you run a big cam on a stock head, you're over-camming the head. There is no debate in that statement.


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Blah blah blah....you run a big cam on a stock head, you're over-camming the head. There is no debate in that statement. 

Its debatable, Im sure that VW didnt match the stock cam and head combo for maxium performance, but for other aspects like fuel mileage, drivablity, longavity. Im sure with a stock head casting (OBD1/2) and some time on the flow bench I could find the best suited cam profiles for stock runners and combustion cambers. Its not only the runners that hurt the x-flow heads but the wedge type combustion camber. Food for thought.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_
Its debatable, Im sure that VW didnt match the stock cam and head combo for maxium performance, but for other aspects like fuel mileage, drivablity, longavity. Im sure with a stock head casting (OBD1/2) and some time on the flow bench I could find the best suited cam profiles for stock runners and combustion cambers. Its not only the runners that hurt the x-flow heads but the wedge type combustion camber. Food for thought.

The combustion chamber isn't ideal for flame front efficiency, but it's a small hurdle compared to the shape of the intake port. It's a giant L... ie, it goes straight in about 2 inches, then makes a right angle, no bueno.
And travis, yes, you can overcam a stock head pretty easily, but overcamming isn't going to cut the power potential as much as undercamming.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_
Its debatable, Im sure that VW didnt match the stock cam and head combo for maxium performance, but for other aspects like fuel mileage, drivablity, longavity. Im sure with a stock head casting (OBD1/2) and some time on the flow bench I could find the best suited cam profiles for stock runners and combustion cambers. Its not only the runners that hurt the x-flow heads but the wedge type combustion camber. Food for thought.


And thats whey there's two differenc cam profiles in the ABA. One for the German head and one for the Mexican head to make up for the shrouds. And both profiles are for low end tq and fuel economy. The cam VW made that best suited that head was sold in the South American market. Its the same profile Techtonics modeled after their 268*. I used to own one. VW cam with Brazil stampins on it...it was a 268*.
Anyway, anything over 231* of duration in a stock ABA head is over-camming the head. Sure, it will work and make power, but not to its potential.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_

And thats whey there's two differenc cam profiles in the ABA. One for the German head and one for the Mexican head to make up for the shrouds. And both profiles are for low end tq and fuel economy. The cam VW made that best suited that head was sold in the South American market. Its the same profile Techtonics modeled after their 268*. I used to own one. VW cam with Brazil stampins on it...it was a 268*.
Anyway, anything over 231* of duration in a stock ABA head is over-camming the head. Sure, it will work and make power, but not to its potential.

231? jebus that's no durration... wonder what lift is ideal? like .100".


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
231? jebus that's no durration... wonder what lift is ideal? like .100".









231* *@ 1mm (.040")*. An advertised duration number means nothing. Flow doesnt amount to sh*t until the valve is off the seat. You know that.








And in case you forgot, the Tt268* and AT270* are 231* (+/- .4*) @ 1mm valve lift.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

so, basically what you're saying is that the autotech 270 is the ideal cam for a stock head.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

No, what Im saying is anything over a duration of 231* at a 1mm valve height is a waste on a stock head. And thats taking into account you have a free-flowing exhaust already hooked up. (even a mild cam is a waste without a good cat-back.)
Then again, that's just my opinion, and i don't know much about anything.


----------



## quickhuh (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Then again, that's just my opinion, and i don't know much about anything.

oh i am going to quote that trav


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

i put the 260 cam into a stock head and it def made a difference on a MKIV. Not a huge one but it made a difference


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_i put the 260 cam into a stock head and it def made a difference on a MKIV. Not a huge one but it made a difference


It will still make more power going to a bigger cam, but it's not the optimal profile for efficiency on the stock head... if your head could flow the air to support that cam propperly, it would make even more power. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## midwestjetta (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

listen to jeff, hes smart


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_

It will still make more power going to a bigger cam, but it's not the optimal profile for efficiency on the stock head... if your head could flow the air to support that cam propperly, it would make even more power. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i want more power


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_
i want more power










Flow more air, add more fuel, more timing advance, rev higher...


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

what are the limitations on the cross flow head when it come to port and polishing?


----------



## midwestjetta (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*

the 8v can nevar lose


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_what are the limitations on the cross flow head when it come to port and polishing?

limit like how much can it flow? or limit like how much can you take out of the ports?\
Needless to say, it's pretty limitted even as sohc heads go... but, there are a number of great ways to use every bit of air that little engine can flow.


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
limit like how much can it flow? or limit like how much can you take out of the ports?\
Needless to say, it's pretty limitted even as sohc heads go... but, there are a number of great ways to use every bit of air that little engine can flow.

i guess in better terms how much can i take out before continuing becomes pointless? i deff have plans of using the ITB set up with cam and heavy springs and i just want to get as much out of it as possible.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Get your headwork from either RSD (TMTuning in Germany) or Jose at Portuning. They are pros and know exactly how to resahpe the ports.


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Get your headwork from either RSD (TMTuning in Germany) or Jose at Portuning. They are pros and know exactly how to resahpe the ports.

so you dont think i should do it myself?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_
so you dont think i should do it myself?

No. Leave that type of work to the pros. You can mess up you head REAL fast if you dont know what you're doing. The most I would suggest any amature to do would be to port-match the intake manifold to the head and do simple _clean-up_ of the ports. Reshaping, bowl work, and chamber work should be left to the pros.


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

i was going to start with matching the ports to the gaskets, cleaning and polishing exhaust. would i be wasting my time?


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_i was going to start with matching the ports to the gaskets, cleaning and polishing exhaust. would i be wasting my time?
for the 3rd darn time get a pro to do it


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greeneco.GTI* »_i was going to start with matching the ports to the gaskets, cleaning and polishing exhaust. would i be wasting my time?

Thats a good start. Portmatching to the gasket is preffered. (port match the lower intake plenum as well). Use a tapered stone to blend the port opening to the gasket and use (my preference) WD40 as a lubricant. Use a flapper wheel for the ports. Dont go past the short side radius with the flapper wheel though. Also, dont mirror finish the inside of the intake port. You neet a tooth to the wall of the port to create a layer boundry so the fuel keeps in the air stream, and not stick to the port walls.
Simple stuff like that is fun and easy to do. Just DONT get greedy. Afterall, you;re just trying to increase port velocity and that simple stuff will go a long way.


_Modified by tdogg74 at 11:36 AM 10-18-2007_


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_You neet a tooth to the wall of the port to create a layer boundry so the fuel keeps in the air stream, and not stick to the port walls.

With the injector shooting the fuel damn near right at the valve, that really should be as much of a concern as people tend to make it on intake runners.
I hear what you are saying, just remember this isn't a carb dumping fuel into a flat plenum that then has to distribute an air and fuel mix down into longer runners into the head. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

Hmmm... what's this we have here? Are we making steady progress with this project? I'm kinda starting to think so!


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? ([email protected])*

sa weet!
Wouldn't flow be better to the rear cylinders if the plenum was larger in the front and tapered as it goes back?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? (pwnt by pat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pwnt by pat* »_sa weet!
Wouldn't flow be better to the rear cylinders if the plenum was larger in the front and tapered as it goes back?

Oh, it sure would!


----------



## pwnt by pat (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: USRT's ITBs 170whp?? ([email protected])*

in the words of borat:
very nice!


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

MALARKY!!


----------



## dvlax40 (Jan 17, 2006)

thats ok i guess, id be moreimpressed to see the itbs going somewhere


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (dvlax40)*

The ITBs themselves have been finished and ready since July. If you want to run them on standalone management, you can buy them right now. The hold up has been intake plenum, TPS/ISV, and software. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (dvlax40)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dvlax40* »_thats ok i guess, id be moreimpressed to see the itbs going somewhere

I seriously doubt you being impressed or not carries any weight or is even a concern for those at USRT.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
I seriously doubt you being impressed or not carries any weight or is even a concern for those at USRT.









He's not impressed unles there is a dyno sheet to go along with it...otherwise its all BS. I know I get impressed when he's impressed because that means its impressive. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_He's not impressed unles there is a dyno sheet to go along with it...otherwise its all BS.

Or... it just means that the product isn't done, yet. So, let's just relax and let the good folks at USRT finish the job.


----------



## SELFMADE (Mar 30, 2006)

Im back on the all-nighter plan from now til SEMA. 20 hour work days! here we go again!


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (SELFMADE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SELFMADE* »_Im back on the all-nighter plan from now til SEMA. 20 hour work days! here we go again!

We have the Red Bull hook up here at work, let me know if you need some "I can't stop my hand from shaking" energy. Drop shipped 10-12 cases a month for free, I gave Pinto some to have on hand for his all nighter. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

Chocolate covered Gloria Jean's Expresso beans are good too, I had to go home one day because I couldn't draw straight lines in my drafting class I was shaking so bad. 
Plenum looks Great, but you dont need us to tell you that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

You know, those boxes would be useful even if you don't have a ITB setup.
With my turbo project I want to run a setup kind of like the ones used on BTCC cars with the airbox behind the grill and the radiator slightly shortened.
What are ya'll planning on making them out of? CF? Kevlar?


_Modified by VWn00b at 8:38 PM 10-18-2007_


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_
What are ya'll planning on making them out of? CF? Kevlar?

_Modified by VWn00b at 8:38 PM 10-18-2007_

The rarest metal known to man.... unobtainium. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## greeneco.GTI (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Thats a good start. Portmatching to the gasket is preffered. (port match the lower intake plenum as well). Use a tapered stone to blend the port opening to the gasket and use (my preference) WD40 as a lubricant. Use a flapper wheel for the ports. Dont go past the short side radius with the flapper wheel though. Also, dont mirror finish the inside of the intake port. You neet a tooth to the wall of the port to create a layer boundry so the fuel keeps in the air stream, and not stick to the port walls.
Simple stuff like that is fun and easy to do. Just DONT get greedy. Afterall, you;re just trying to increase port velocity and that simple stuff will go a long way.

_Modified by tdogg74 at 11:36 AM 10-18-2007_

sweet thanks for the help!


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (greeneco.GTI)*

Finally someone understands Flow and Velocity! Guys when you put 50 or 52mm x 4 ITB's on an engine that once had a single 50ish throttle body you now have a On/Off switch for a Throttle! Driveability is far removed from the equasion!
"Velocity is king, flow is it's Bitch" (Nivek)








Buttbump


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_Guys, when you put 50 or 52mm x 4 ITB's on an engine that once had a single 50ish throttle body you now have a On/Off switch for a Throttle!

*WISE*


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_ Driveability is far removed from the equasion!


I beg to differ. My car is as driveable in traffic etc as a single TB car. Heck the generation M3 and M5 as well as the present gen M3, M5 and M6 all are very driveable.


_Modified by WolfGTI at 2:18 PM 10-19-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Mendra, you know that if throttle plates and intake ports are too large the low end response suffers with a "tip in" bog.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Mendra, you know that if throttle plates and intake ports are too large the low end response suffers with a "tip in" bog.









Too large is one thing, but a matched thought out kit is fine if properly tuned.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Too large is one thing, but a matched thought out kit is fine if properly tuned.


Mendra, you also have 12 more valves, twice the flow, and standalone... a little different league, bud http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_

Mendra, you also have 12 more valves, twice the flow, and standalone... a little different league, bud http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

You forget I had an 8v with ITB's Jeff - drove it daily for a hair under 2 years.


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Not only that! BMW and Nissan the MAIN 2 Factory ITB set-ups that come to mind are 45mm not 50 or 52mm! 1 being 3.0 ltrs and the other being 2.6ltrs, which equates to .5ltr & .43ltr per 45mm plate! They also have very long runners or horns you don't see! 
They also have Millions invested into R&D with regards to MAP tuning, Engine/Chassis Dyno time, not to count the expertise of engineers who are the best at what they do! aftermarket Companies cannever match this!
A well bathed turd in a Tuxedo still smells a little! This is to say ITB's are not going to change the Small Ports that are narrow in spacing, and designed with economy and mass production driven mentality! 
Buttbump


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_...not going to change the Small Ports

Seriously, I just started getting stuff ready for this manifold I have spec'd out. These intake ports are small. Even with the head getting opened up it's definetly going to get interesting mating a decent sized runner to them.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
Seriously, I just started getting stuff ready for this manifold I have spec'd out. These intake ports are small. Even with the head getting opened up it's definetly going to get interesting mating a decent sized runner to them. 

Did you see the ports on Pinto's ABA - he opened that thing up alot, with the compression he had it was still very snappy.


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (billyVR6)*

This is correct! The shorter the runner the more torque you loose and the narrower the torque curve becomes, smaller Throttle Plates help this situation!
signed 
One sarcastic old F#$k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








Buttbump


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (buttbump)*

If this Pinto 8V was running 50mm, 52mm, or 40mm or 45mm ITB's or was running a stock 2.0ltr manifold please post a Dyno Plot of the torque Curve!
Buttbump


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (buttbump)*

Fast cars don't have dyno plots. It went mid 14's on Digi2. That should be enough info.


----------



## buttbump (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

The Dyno Plot would Prove my Point, that it had a very narrow torque curve and ****ty driveability! Drag race or WOT race event is a on/off switch which further proves my point!
Buttbump


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_If this Pinto 8V was running 50mm, 52mm, or 40mm or 45mm ITB's or was running a stock 2.0ltr manifold

Stock OBD1 manifold and throttle body.
Unfortunelty, it never ran right with the Digi, lost it's sh*t up top really bad.
IIRC, it couldn't rev out past... 5800rpm.
Still all things considered, it managed 14.6 ET's.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (billyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billyVR6* »_
Stock OBD1 manifold and throttle body.
Unfortunelty, it never ran right with the Digi, lost it's sh*t up top really bad.
IIRC, it couldn't rev out past... 5800rpm.
Still all things considered, it managed 14.6 ET's.

In a car that weighed 2400 maybe with driver.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
You forget I had an 8v with ITB's Jeff - drove it daily for a hair under 2 years.









what size boddies and what management?


----------



## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_In a car that weighed 2400 maybe with driver.

Yep, still on the heavy side of things.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
what size boddies and what management?

45mm ITB's on Megasquirt. I did my cross flow on ITB's back in 2005 - to learn on before I decided to build the motor I now have.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
45mm ITB's on Megasquirt. I did my cross flow on ITB's back in 2005 - to learn on before I decided to build the motor I now have.

See, with a worked head, you could have come close to using the 45mm plates, but you're running 48's now, right? and a stock head? even with those cams, I don't think you'd be using all the flow you have available.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_The Dyno Plot would Prove my Point, that it had a very narrow torque curve and ****ty driveability! Drag race or WOT race event is a on/off switch which further proves my point!

Wow, way to assume. The car ripped until it hit the super-early Digi rev limiter. No problem with that setup was the motor, it was all the management. In hindsight I wish we put Megasquirt on that one. I think we'll get a chance to have a ripping 8v soon though.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

The 8v had a worked head and 276 TT cam and 45mm ITBs, with a supersprint header. The bottom end was bone stock.
The 20v head is bone stock except for Supertech valves, with the 48mm Jenveys.


----------



## race-shop joe (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_The Dyno Plot would Prove my Point, that it had a very narrow torque curve and ****ty driveability! Drag race or WOT race event is a on/off switch which further proves my point!
Buttbump
,drove it daily, torque was great. it had a stock digi tb on it to go with the shady digi mangement


----------



## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (buttbump)*


_Quote, originally posted by *buttbump* »_Finally someone understands Flow and Velocity! Guys when you put 50 or 52mm x 4 ITB's on an engine that once had a single 50ish throttle body you now have a On/Off switch for a Throttle! Driveability is far removed from the equasion!
"Velocity is king, flow is it's Bitch" (Nivek)








Buttbump

Ok, stupid question from someone who doesn't know any better:
Wouldn't an SRI be more or less the same as the set up being discussed here? It seems two very similar layout just with different placement of of the TB in relation to each cylinder (one before the plenum, one after) or am I missing something much bigger?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Neckromacr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Neckromacr* »_
Ok, stupid question from someone who doesn't know any better:
Wouldn't an SRI be more or less the same as the set up being discussed here? It seems two very similar layout just with different placement of of the TB in relation to each cylinder (one before the plenum, one after) or am I missing something much bigger?


Yes, sort of, if you consider that it's a closed intake tract... however, the real benefit is the lowered intake manifold volume... that being, although you still have a plenum, the plenum isn't technically the intake manifold. it's simply a collector for the air to be dispersed, much like the intake tube on a stock ABA manifold. It's before the throttle plate. on this setup, all that volume is in front of the plate, meaning you have a large volume of available air whenever you want it, but the bit that matters as far as throttle response and airflow, is all contained between the throttle plate and intake valve, and you can't get better throttle response or top end than having the TB less than 10 inches from the valve and in a straight line, that's where it shines, the throttle plates are straight in front of all the intake valves and close. The plenum on this setup is designed with one purpose in mind: giving each TB a collective pool of METERED air, via the MAF sensor. That also allows you to utilize the stock management that is based on specific load (better than calculated air density like a MAP based system uses) and already there!
why remove and replace a better system for a less accurate (although more tunable) aftermarket system? Utilize what you have and pair it with a chip that is tuned to this setup and designed to retain emissions equipment and keep the whole thing emissions legal and daily drivable. It's a stroke of genius... so glad I thought of it.


----------



## Neckromacr (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Thanks for clearing that up Jeff, you can see where my logic was going, but bitch slapped my with science, thanks.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Neckromacr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Neckromacr* »_Thanks for clearing that up Jeff, you can see where my logic was going, but bitch slapped my with science, thanks.










We're professionals.


----------



## jordan92o (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

updates its been dead for a long time now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (jordan92o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jordan92o* »_updates its been dead for a long time now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

updates??? uh... working on it.
the hard parts are finished, it's this pesky tuning and testing that kills the hype... trust me, this is getting very close now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## zero. (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

Was looking for this thread...watching and waiting patiently http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Awaken from a deep slumber...............


----------



## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_deep slumber...............
 Another way of saying Dead


----------



## splinterz88 (Jul 28, 2006)

*Re: (GaTeIg)*

They're working on it. In the regional forum USRT have asked for test vehicles. So I'm sure they'll have some updates soon.


_Modified by splinterz88 at 10:34 AM 1/16/2008_


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2008)

*Re: (splinterz88)*

I know it sounds like a record, but they are still moving forward. There is a lot of initial planning going into the ITB's and manifolds to make the install and compatibility as clean and smooth as possible as well as add a modular dimension to the set-up. 
Test cars are being brought in to the shop to check fitment on 4 cyl vehicles across the VW line-up as I type.


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## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Nice. I figured it would take a while as there is alot involved. I just like to here about the progress being made along the way.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

weekly update?


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2008)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

If your running standalone we can accommodate you right now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
the majority of us will still have to be patient. Still fitting plenums in an effort to cover all the bases before release.


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## sio (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

yeah i'm going to bring this back from the dead, and yes for only one reason.... 
any updates????


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## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (guylover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *guylover* »_just let it die








................my question is has there been any success in getting a car to run on factory motronic....... 
I've heard alot of "thats definitely been figured out like a year ago" and so on....... I drive a 96 (obdII) car in NC that has to be obd scannable to pass emmisions.... Got excited when I heard there was progress on running factory management....but its been awhile since I heard anything new....
I am sure alot of things have been ironed out before release......but are there any pictures of these installs.......videos....... Maybe I have missed them...... Any of these setups hit the dyno? Been looking for awhile but only see the partial itb kits intending for standalone.....
Guess I'll let it die............


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## guylover (Jan 8, 2008)

there is no support for motronic yet... and the person that kept comming on here and saying it was really close is a lying DBAG...not you scott


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Ok, you used to lick Jeff's sack every chance you could back in the day.....I'm curious, what did he do to you to piss you off so much?
Honestly.


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## guylover (Jan 8, 2008)

****ed my car up, (cost me over 600 to repair or replace all the incorrect parts and material, not to mention stripped out my head) also took a couple thousand to build a buddys motor and bolted. and my fabricator made him a long runner 16v intake manifold for 400 dollars, jeff gave him 150 and then sold it for 500....me along with alot of other southwest guys are not to happy, but are glad to be rid of him


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## ghoastoflyle (Jan 21, 2003)

That really sucks to hear, I was kinda wondering where he's been. He usually posted some good info here.
good luck on getting this together usrt, far from easy im sure. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## guylover (Jan 8, 2008)

not gonna lie... hes like communism.... sounds good on paper... not so good in practice haha


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## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (guylover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *guylover* »_not gonna lie... hes like communism.... sounds good on paper... not so good in practice haha

Hmm.....from all of this bickering I take it there hasn't been a ton of forward progress on the motronic.....among other things


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (dhutchvento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dhutchvento* »_
Hmm.....from all of this bickering I take it there hasn't been a ton of forward progress on the motronic.....among other things

Negative ghosterider.
Its been over 2 years since these were "thought of"
A wise man once said: "Don't hold your breath, son."


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## sio (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

i can wait, it'll allow me to build the rest of the engine properly...


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## guylover (Jan 8, 2008)

there just itbs... they can work on a stock motor no problem


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