# Analog OnStar: The Final Determination



## versatec95 (Nov 16, 2004)

Since the Phaeton's OnStar system is analog only, it appears we're officially End-of-Life on 01/01/2008, with no upgrade path..








Onstar Digital Transition
Revised July 7, 2006
http://www.onstar.com/us_engli...equip
INFORMATION YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT VEHICLES WITH ONSTAR EQUIPMENT
Since it was launched in 1996, OnStar has relied on an analog wireless network to provide communication to and from OnStar-equipped vehicles. Today, the analog network continues to provide the most extensive coverage across the United States and Canada. However, wireless carriers in the U.S. and Canada are in the process of transitioning their networks from analog to digital technology.
In November 2002, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) ruled that wireless carriers will no longer be required to support the analog wireless network as of early 2008. The FCC ruling is a U.S. regulation. However, wireless carriers in Canada have made the determination to follow suit and have begun their transition from analog to digital networks as well.
Therefore, beginning January 1, 2008, OnStar services in the U.S. and Canada will only be available through dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.
Q1. What different types of equipment do OnStar-equipped vehicles have? 
A1. OnStar-equipped vehicles have one of three types of equipment:
*Analog-Only: OnStar-equipped vehicles with analog-only equipment were designed to operate only on the analog wireless network and cannot be upgraded for digital network compatibility. Vehicles with this equipment will no longer be able to receive OnStar services beginning January 1, 2008. At that time, service will be available only through dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment. Analog-only vehicles cannot be upgraded to digital equipment.*
Analog/Digital-Ready: OnStar-equipped vehicles with analog/digital-ready equipment operate on the analog wireless network, but were designed to be upgraded to dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment when available for that vehicle. Beginning January 1, 2008, OnStar service will not be available on these vehicles unless the OnStar equipment has been upgraded to dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.
Dual-Mode (Analog/Digital): OnStar-equipped vehicles with dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment operate on both the analog and digital wireless networks and will not require an upgrade in connection with the wireless industry's transition to the digital network. 
Q2. What kind of hardware does my OnStar-equipped vehicle have? 
A2. To determine the equipment type in an OnStar-equipped vehicle, you may:
Press the blue OnStar button in the vehicle and ask the OnStar Advisor to identify which equipment type was factory-installed in the vehicle.
Call OnStar toll-free at 1.888.206.0031, or to contact us online, click here. (Please have your OnStar account number or your vehicle identification number (VIN) available.)

Q3. How does the transition to the digital network affect me right now? 
A3. You don't need to do anything at this time. Your OnStar equipment will function as it always has until January 1, 2008. The analog network still offers the most extensive coverage available in the U.S. and Canada. In addition, the FCC ruling requires wireless carriers to support the analog network until early 2008. 
Q4. Will I still be able to get an OnStar subscription after January 1, 2008? 
A4. OnStar service will be available to vehicles with dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment. If you currently have analog/digital-ready equipment, it will need to be upgraded to dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment to continue service as of January 1, 2008. (Refer to Question #7 for additional information.) *If your vehicle has analog-only equipment, however, you will not be able to upgrade the equipment nor will your vehicle be able to receive OnStar service as of January 1, 2008.* (Refer to question #2 to determine which type of equipment was factory-installed in your vehicle.) 
*Q5. Will my OnStar-equipped vehicle's analog-only system still work after January 1, 2008? 
A5. No. *As of early 2008, wireless carriers will no longer be required to support the analog network. As a result, beginning January 1, 2008, OnStar will only offer services, including OnStar Hands-Free Calling, through dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment. 
Q6. Digital service has been around for a while - why does OnStar still utilize analog service? 
A6. When OnStar was launched in 1996, analog provided the most extensive and reliable wireless coverage available for nationwide service. Even today, analog continues to provide the widest range of coverage across the U.S. and Canada. Vehicle manufacturers are now producing all OnStar-equipped vehicles with dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment which can operate on both analog and digital networks. 
Q7. Will a digital upgrade program be available for subscribers with earlier versions of hardware? 
A7. Each vehicle manufacturer will determine whether it will offer an analog-to-digital transition plan for subscribers who have analog/digital-ready OnStar equipment and are interested in upgrading to digital equipment. To learn more, click here. 
Q8. Where do I go with questions about the FCC ruling that wireless carriers will no longer be required to support the analog network? 
A8. For more information about the FCC ruling, visit fcc.gov, or click here for a downloadable version of the ruling. For the latest information about the OnStar analog-to-digital transition plan, please continue to visit onstar.com/digital-transition. 
Q9. What is the FCC? 
A9. The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is a U.S. government agency charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable. The FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 United States, the District of Columbia and U.S. possessions. 
Q10. How does the FCC ruling impact OnStar in Canada? 
A10. Since most Canadians live within driving distance of the U.S./Canadian border, OnStar needs to be able to provide the same service in both markets. The FCC ruling is a U.S. regulation, and no date has been set for ending analog service in Canadian provinces. However, wireless carriers in Canada have made the determination to follow suit and have begun their transition from analog to digital networks as well. Therefore, beginning January 1, 2008, OnStar services in the U.S. and Canada will only be available through dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment. 
Q11. What are wireless carriers? 
A11. The independent wireless communication companies that hold cellular broadcast licenses in various areas are called wireless carriers or wireless service providers. OnStar relies on a nationwide wireless network of these carriers to provide communication to and from all OnStar-equipped vehicles. 
Q12. What is analog? 
A12. Analog wireless service transmits voice on a continuous radio wave using frequency modulation similar to an FM radio, and operates in the 800 MHz frequency range. All 800 MHz analog systems operate under a common industry standard, known as Advanced Mobile Phone Services (AMPS). 
Q13. What is digital? 
A13. In a digital wireless system, voice is converted to a digital signal and then transmitted over air. Digital wireless service operates in both the 800 MHz and 1900 MHz frequency range. The three dominant systems in the U.S. and Canada are CDMA, GSM and TDMA. OnStar-equipped vehicles with dual-mode (analog/digital) hardware have been engineered to work in the 800 MHz frequency for analog or CDMA digital networks, in addition to the 1900 MHz CDMA digital networks.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (versatec95)*

As soon as I get back to North America, I think I will have an upgrade path to discuss with everyone. This might not be until September.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

An upgrade path would be great. I use my On/start everyday.


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
an upgrade path is critical for me too - I use the phone component extensively for work during the Pittsburgh to NY milk run.
Stefano


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (Motorista)*

OK, as soon as I get back to Canada, I will get to work on this. Not sure when that will be - just found out I have to go to Nairobi tomorrow morning (Friday morning) for a week - I will be away from the forum for a while.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

We will all wait paitently, fly safe.


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## Jake P (Nov 15, 2005)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (versatec95)*

I'm assuming this goes for all VWs with Onstar not just the Phateon. I've got an 04.5 Passat GLX. I'm guessing my gear is all analog too?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_As soon as I get back to North America, I think I will have an upgrade path to discuss with everyone. This might not be until September.

OK, it's now September, and I have arrived back in Canada, with three different phone kits to try retrofitting to my Phaeton. Give me a week or so to catch up and I will post a more detailed report.
The short story, though, is that the outlook for retrofitting Bluetooth phones in NAR Phaetons - either by way of Bluetooth handsfree (the Motorola IHF-1000 solution) or by way of Bluetooth rSAP (what 2007 Phaetons are equipped with) is very, very optimistic. And, best of all, VW is quite keen to assist us, as an owner group, to develop a fully satisfactory solution.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Wonderfull, an Eary Christmas.

















_Modified by GripperDon at 10:43 PM 9-12-2006_


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








Regards,
Brent


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (PanEuropean)*

Michael, That's wonderful news! Thank you so much, and let me know if I can help in any way (Pittsburgh is not too far from Toronto....








Stefano


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Michael
Any thing new!


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## OldGripperDon (Sep 22, 2006)

Computer bobble


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Any progress on a follow on fo On-Star?


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (OldGripperDon)*

Old-Star?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_Any progress on a follow on fo On-Star?

I'm planning to visit VW of America in Auburn Hills at the end of next week to discuss what would be the best way of proceeding.
There are two possibilities in front of us now:
*1)* Installing the Motorola IHF-1000 Bluetooth device. This is already available from VW dealers, but a wiring kit for the Phaeton is not available (yet, anyway). Advantages Inexpensive (under $500, probably), well known, in theory dealers could do the installation. Disadvantages: Limited functionality - it's just a remote microphone and speaker with a send/end button (Bluetooth Handsfree), and it's not OEM.
*2)* Retrofitting the new Bluetooth rSAP controller that is presently being installed in MY 2007 Phaetons. Advantages: full rSAP capability, uses the J523 interface, fully OEM. Disadvantages: probably more expensive (I'm guessing the $1,000 range), more complex install, J523 buttons won't match nomenclature on buttons in older Phaetons that have the 'MANUAL' button on them.
Each approach has its pros and cons. I don't want to use my Phaeton for two (consecutive) different retrofits. So, I need to get more information about the costs of both, then perhaps make a plan to retrofit two different Phaetons - one with rSAP and one with the Motorola. There is a Phaeton owner in my city who has a 2005 with the cell phone prep - that would be the perfect candidate for the rSap retrofit.
I'll update you again in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, we still have 14 months before OnStar gets turned off...








Michael


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, I'd be up for the oem retrofit if the cost does not go much higher than 1000 (US, I presume). By the way, is the end of analog going to affect the on star sound & safe program or just the phone feature?
Stefano


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## versatec95 (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: (Motorista)*

Deactiviation of the analog network at the end of 2007 will render the Phaeton's entire OnStar system useless; no phone or Safe & Sound. 
Keeping Safe & Sound running is a major point with me.


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## vivaitalia (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: Bluetooth*

There is a company (http://www.eiskits.com) that makes ONLY (under that company's name) bluetooth retorfits for 3 specific cars (BMW, Mercedes, and Jaguar). What is different about these bluetooth retrofits is that they are fully/completely compatible with their respective cars. I purchased their module for my 2002 Mercedes C320 and it works amazing. All wheel controls and dash controls work as if the OEM phone would've worked. The displays on both the instrument cluster and the center console work as if the OEM phone would've worked. The OEM's mic and speakers are used. Even my phone book downloaded. It's as if they purchased the OEM phone equipment, took it totally apart and designed their own circuit board for bluetooth. Additionally, they use the exact connectors as the OEM phone module would (in my case, one fiber optic connector and one 25-pin connector). In fact, if I had the OEM phone installed, all I would do is unplug the OEM and plug in their module
*POINT*: Can someone use their influence and talk to these guys about developing a module for the Phaeton? Of course we are talking well over $1,000. As the module for my mercedes retails for $800 (and the one module is probably compatible with C,E,and S classes); so they have some economies of scale there for BMW and Mercedes, no so sure about Jaguar though. Of course as more and more cars have Bluetooth otpions, standard on some cars even, they may eventually run out of cars to design bluetooth modules for.


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## speckhead (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: Bluetooth (vivaitalia)*

Below is email from EIS in response to my request for a Phaeton solution.
=============================
Hi,

Thank you for the inquiry. Unfortunately we do not have anything developed for this type of automobile at this time. Sorry for the inconvenience. 

Calvin Brookins
EIS LTD
3776 Vineville Ave. Ste. C
Macon, Georgia 31204
404.795.2185


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

I wrote also and supplied detailed info. I got this reply
Hello Don - we have thought about doing a kit for this car and are still considering it; and it is perfectly do-able from a technical perspective. The issue is that there just aren't that many out there (and we don't have access to one to test at the moment). We do intend to do a full investigation and market analysis for this product as soon as we have one to evaluate. One bit of info that would help is to know what kind of phone the car came with - do you happen to know? 
Thanks for the inquiry!

Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Randy Paquette
European Integrated Systems, Ltd.
http://WWW.EISKITS.COM
+1 (404) 795-2185 Fax: +1 (775)552-9612

So Michael or Fred does someone have the answer? I believe that their are Phaeton's in his area that would be willing to drop by. I have started to develop a rappor with this gentleman and though I would mention the Audi A* and maybe you all )Forum Members) can add some other things to add. 



_Modified by GripperDon at 8:10 PM 10-6-2006_


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## vivaitalia (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

What we should probably consider doing is polling how many Phaeton owners out there would seriously consider purchasing something like this (NA and ROW) given a general price range (for the product). If the number is high enough, we can go to EIS and tell them there is a market for this. 
Separately, for those phaetons w/o the phone controls on the steering wheel, is it necessary to have the wheel retrofitted? If so what would the costs be for that.
Out of curiosity, how does one dial numbers without using the handset on phaeton's with phone installed? John


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (vivaitalia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vivaitalia* »_Separately, for those Phaetons w/o the phone controls on the steering wheel, is it necessary to have the wheel retrofitted? If so what would the costs be for that.

About $100 for the part, and a half an hour of labour. But, I don't know the answer yet to the question about whether or not the buttons would be needed. My guess is that for operation with an OEM system, yes, but with an aftermarket system, no.
Michael


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (versatec95)*

Unfortunately, keeping safe and sound running is an on star issue, and I doubt they really care about a few Phaetons.


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## vivaitalia (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Michael,
Do you know if any registered member in the Phaeton forum are based in the Atlanta, GA area? If so, could you put me in touch with them (all). I'd like to see if any of them would be receptive to working with http://www.eiskits.com to come up with a prototype.
Thanks, John


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (vivaitalia)*

I don't know of anyone offhand, but, if I notice anyone from Atlanta posting questions about phones, I'll refer them to you.
Michael


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## mkerr (Dec 12, 2005)

Thought I would bump the topic.. Chris B. just had a whack at a number of issues on my 04 v8 and it looks like I now have a 2005 J523 with the infamous 'phone' button. Not to beat a dead horse, but is there any news on the 2007 rSAP solution? Like I said, I have the button, but not the wiring harness, so this may not work for me, but I'd *really* like to get bluetooth phone operabilty integrated with the existing displays/mic, if at all possible.
Thoughts?


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Just opened my OFFICIAL letter from On-Star informing me that Say Le Vie 12/31/07, So do we have a way to keep using the mic, buttons, radio mute etc. ????????


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:
I purchased some phone parts when I was in Europe last month, and I am still working on this. It is complex - makes the TV tuner retrofit look easy, at least the TV tuner retrofit came with wiring diagrams.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Go michael Go!
If it can be done you will do it.
Don


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## Phat Cat (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

We're all still waiting with bated and bad breath. Now that Fermat's last theorem, the four color problem and Poincare's conjecture have all been solved, Phaeton bluetooth and DVD nav are next on the list.


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## phaeton1990 (Mar 6, 2005)

hello michael, I have a 2006 phaeton and i am determined to intigrate the OEM phone, despite the many obsticles. I have been researching this topic and comparing my vin # with german phaeton vins as well as a 2005 US vin that are equiped with OEM phones. The cell prep I am interested in is for the Nokia6310i. Though I would prefere the r sap. When comparing the main central wiring harness for all the vin #s , they all showed plugs to be used later for phones. I.e I noticed in the center console tunnel there are 3 harnesses labled for phone modules and connections. ( harness #s are 34, 59 & 34.). My Question is; Can the infotainment system with the phone button be programed to accept these phone interfaces or is it part of the hard rom setup that needs to be done during assembly at the factory? On the 2005 US phaeton the cell phone prep kit had an on star system with it, which contains both a telematic & diversity box. Is it possible just to connect the system with out them since 2006 phaetons dont come with on star ? I also discovered that i did not have the mike for the phone next to the reading light. I checked and there was no harness for it. Can you help me find a part no. for it and does it connect to the head unit . Finaly I checked the US bentley rsap fitted kits , they are available and working fine in the US. I wonder if they are the same for the phaeton. If so do you have access to the phaeton part no's. I also came across a Bentley dealer in England who claims that they can retrofit the OEM rsap phone systems. KIt costs 1000. Gp abut $2000.0. I hope you find this information helpfull. I do seek your guidance in order to accomplish this long debated topic. Maybe some help from Germany. Thanks much


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (phaeton1990)*

Howdy neighbour (phaeton1990)







, it is good to see another phaeton owner from my side of the world here.
I'd sure be glad to see a solution the bluetooth issue. The Phaeton is too good a car to go around without it.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton1990)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton1990* »_...Maybe some help from Germany...

I'm going to the Phaeton Owner GTG in Dresden, Germany next weekend, and I am sure the topic of retrofitting OEM Bluetooth will come up for discussion.
Michael


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Let me join the chorus: I too would be anxious for a solution, since the car is my office for about 12 hours every week. Good luck, and, as always, many, many thanks for being willing to take the lead on this one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Stefano


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## R8ordered (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael:
As you know, I have two Phaetons, a 2004 W12 in Santa Fe, and a 2005 V8 in NYC. Each has OnStar and phone service through Verizon, all paid through a single cell phone account.
My 2004 Audi S4 is likewise equipped and connected through Verizon. My son is a physician in NYC, has a 2004 S4 and finds the phone very helpful when he is in transit. I am 86 and, although blessed with good health, the phone and OnStar are a great comfort as well as a business tool. The systems have worked flawlessly in all four vehicles.
I would gladly be a participant with other owners, Audi, VW et al, to assure some supplier with a sufficient number of orders to make it worthwhile.
Please keep us informed. As usual you are a Phaeton owner's best friend.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (R8ordered)*

First of all congratulations reaching age 86 and still blessed with good health and staying active in business. My Father is almost 83 and goes to work everyday so I know that your being active is great. 
Regarding the ONSTAR issue. Its a big disapointment that no option has come forward for the Volkswagen customer and for that matter all ONSTAR consumers. However I did happen to do a browser search and noticed that a class action law suit exists against ONSTAR and know that somewhere the ball has been dropped by ONSTAR and its parent GM more then blaming Volkswagen.
*The class action complaint alleges that OnStar is a unique in-vehicle safety system that provides automatic crash notification to emergency responders, stolen vehicle location, remote door unlock and remote diagnostics in the event of problems with airbags, anti-lock brakes or other systems. The complaint further alleges that GM and OnStar touted the life-saving benefits of OnStar and that like other vehicle safety systems, it would function for the life of the vehicle and would be transferable to subsequent owners*
Over the years I have seen a lot of meritless law suits being filed but personally I think this one has merit and is viable. Since I see your an attorney and many attorneys probably are Phaeton owners it would be interesting to here from them on this issue. 
ONSTAR and GM are large enough and smart enough to know many years prior to designing for a 2004 model release vehicle that Analog systems were obsolete. So it will be interesting to watch where this Law suit goes. Of course we all know that class actions are more about the attorney and not the consumer.
Here is a link to the Lawsuit.
http://www.onstarclassaction.com/
http://www.onstarclassaction.c...t.pdf

_Quote, originally posted by *R8ordered* »_Michael:
As you know, I have two Phaetons, a 2004 W12 in Santa Fe, and a 2005 V8 in NYC. Each has OnStar and phone service through Verizon, all paid through a single cell phone account.
My 2004 Audi S4 is likewise equipped and connected through Verizon. My son is a physician in NYC, has a 2004 S4 and finds the phone very helpful when he is in transit. I am 86 and, although blessed with good health, the phone and OnStar are a great comfort as well as a business tool. The systems have worked flawlessly in all four vehicles.
I would gladly be a participant with other owners, Audi, VW et al, to assure some supplier with a sufficient number of orders to make it worthwhile.
Please keep us informed. As usual you are a Phaeton owner's best friend.


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## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

I live in Greenville,SC but would be more than happy to have someone use my car as the "lab rat" for this retrofit. As some of you might remember, after a year of searching/lurking on the forum for the right Phaeton I finally pulled the trigger in May and took delivery June 8. Let me know if they do, in fact, want to use my car becasue I am leaving for CT for 3 weeks starting July 15 and that would be a great amount of time for them to work on it while I am gone.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (R8ordered)*

Hello R8Ordered:
Fellow Phaeton owner Don L. from Arizona - who posts here as 'Gripper Don' on the forum - is currently investigating the best way of retrofitting North American Phaetons with a hands-free Bluetooth kit. 
Personally, I think that the best long-term solution for all of us would be a Bluetooth retrofit. OnStar has its merits - it is handfree, it's always there, and they offer supplemental solutions such as a concierge service - but realistically, just about all of us own cell phones these days, and if we can come up with a method of replacing the OnStar with a handsfree Bluetooth system that uses our own cell phone, that will be certainly as efficient as OnStar and most certainly less expensive than OnStar.
I am vehemently opposed to class action lawsuits of any kind - I think they do far, far more harm than good when their effects are evaluated across the board - therefore, because of these strong feelings, I am going to recuse myself totally from subject of the OnStar class action suit and not comment on it any further.
Michael


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I'm against class action suits too. But this one is already there and cooking. 
Not being an attorney, I did read the suit and find in my view it to have merit. ONSTAR should have had a solution for vehicles being sold after 2004. The suit filed was based on a 2002 Cadillac. But GM is a smart company and new by 2004 that analog was going bye bye. Not sure why the brass there didn't fix the problem. Pehaps they made too many analog units they wanted to peddle








Larry


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: (Kcmover)*

Larry,
Although I generally feel the same as Michael regarding class action suits, I tend to agree with you on this one. I bought new a 2005 model year car, and find hard to put up with the fact that such a critical feature of the car is already obsolete after only two years. Since I spend an average of 14 hours on the roda every weekend, I use the phone a lot for work, and the safety feature of On-Star has added significant peace of mind for me and my family.
Having said that, I also would welcome a bluetooth retrofit.
Stefano


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Motorista)*

I'm not very surprised that OnStar chose to not offer an upgrade to a digital unit for the VW products - after all, OnStar and VW was a shotgun marriage arising from a lawsuit between GM and VW back at the start of the millennium, thus, there's not really a lot of love between those two.
What does really surprise me is that OnStar is not offering an upgrade path for folks like the guy behind that class action suit, who owns a 2002 Cadillac. I mean, sheesh, Cadillac is a GM product, and I would have figured that GM's subsidiary OnStar would have gone out of their way to support that segment of the market, even if it didn't make a whole lot of economic sense to do so.
In this light, it kind of makes me wonder what the future is for OnStar. North American manufacturers seem to have been slow to adopt integrated Bluetooth - I'm referring to the simple 'Bluetooth Handsfree' protocol, not to the complex rSAP system. I am going to guess, though, that as more people become familiar with those little over-the-ear space cadet headsets that connect to Bluetooth phones, the demand for Bluetooth handsfree support in cars will rise. Where, then, will that leave OnStar's business model? In the same place as fax machines and portable CD players?








Michael


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, GM is one smart company. This blunder ranks with the opp's I screwed up. US auto makers have some rule that requires them to have parts for a car for 10 years past the model year. The Onstar system shouldn't have been obsolete in two or three. The fact that GM screwed their loyal GM customers proves it was not something against VW. 
While I hate class action guys I really think this has merit for a payout or a solution. GM is at risk for millions of dollars with customers who purchased a car for the system as a safety device. If one person dies because their airbag notification did not work they will get screwed by the courts. 
By the way you forgot the EIGHT TRACK TAPE.


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Michael I agree with you and it will not make anyone like GM feel they are a smart company for being so short sighted, but that is nothing new.


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## R8ordered (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael:
I will have been in practice for 60 years when 2008 rolls around.
As for the suit, the jury is still out on that for me.
When I was in a very successful law office in NYC many, many years ago we youngsters were taught that the purpose of litigation was not
to make Law, but to bring the other party to the bargaining table for purposes of a reasonable settlement. Especially if one's opponent perceived itself as an 800 lb gorilla who could do as it pleased.
Perhaps this suit will serve to remind GM that it may be ignoring both a rightful claim and a breach of its oblligations under the law.
One would hope that the 14th floor would realize that this is a battle it can't afford to win, let 
alone lose.


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## lauracreech (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (versatec95)*

I called VW. They said they are logging complaints and are "Sorry." If you want to have them log your complaint, contact them at Customer CARE Center at (800) 822-8987.


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: (R8ordered)*

I'm a little late to the dance, but I would favorably view this class action. There is a definite 'loss of use' issue here, particularly since we assumed, and were so informed at purchase, that the on-star system was a real plus.
As to class actions in general- some have legs, others don't. I am directly involved in the oil and gas business and I have seen 3 class actions settled for many millions of dollars in the past few years wherein the oil companies were not paying their royalty owners as they should. As a royalty owner, I have no way to check if I am being paid correctly for the production on a particular well, so I applaud these actions for getting me something due me. This is a lot different than a class action over breast implants which should have been thrown out for lacking proof.


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## lauracreech (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: Class Action*

I contacted the law firm that is handling the GM class action suit and asked if the suit was only for GM vehicle owners. He replied that they are also preparing an action against vw. He said he would notify me when they are ready. He can be emailed at [email protected]


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## 12dunlin (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I am vehemently opposed to class action lawsuits of any kind - I think they do far, far more harm than good 

Well said, Michael.
Oh and blue tooth is such an easy and (very) cheap mod. to implement. I have done it manytimes over the past 5 years. I was even part of its initial development into a standard.
A quality (like Sony or Motorola) installation typically takes one hour and typically costs less than £100 sterling. So very very cheap compared to OEM fit projects. Although OEM uses the nice screen built into the dash!


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## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: (R8ordered)*

Well I heard back from EIS today:
Hi Paul,

Thanks for checking back with us. Unfortunately I have spoken to our team and at this time we will not be able to carry out any testing on the Phaeton at this time. If anything should change in the future we have you contact information and will get in touch with you. Thanks.


Calvin Brookins
EIS LTD
3776 Vineville Ave. Ste. C
Macon, Georgia 31204
404.795.2185

Sounds like we wont be getting a bluetooth kit from them anytime soon


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (versatec95)*

I got a letter from OnStar earlier this year saying my 2004 VW Passat had analog only equipment so it's not upgradeable when the analog network is no longer supported on January 1, 2008.
To me, this situation is irritating as hell. The FCC ruling came out in 2002 yet GM and some of it's partners continued to install analog only devices in certain vehicles? Anything vehicle that had OnStar available after 2002 certainly should have been upgradeable to the digital network in my opinion.
I was discussing this with an elderly couple in their 80's that I know. Their 2005 Buick LeSabre is not upgradeable either. The safety and security of OnStar was one thing they appreciated in their vehicle and became a major factor in their purchasing decision.


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## A8PIMP (Mar 26, 2007)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (versatec95)*

any news on this??? 2004 A6 4.2 here


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (A8PIMP)*

No OnStar upgrade path for VW product owners from VW of America. That's the final news.
Personally, with almost everyone having a personal cell phone nowadays, I think it's a non-issue. OnStar was pretty nifty in the late 1990s before cell phones became tiny. Today, it's really not much of a benefit... for less than the price of 6 months of OnStar subscription, you can buy a Bluetooth handsfree kit for your mobile phone.
Michael


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (PanEuropean)*

My Mercedes ML has Onstar also and I believe there is an upgrade path. I wonder if they are the same units?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Analog OnStar: The Final Determination (dlouie)*

No, they are not. The OnStar controllers installed in VW/Audi products are unique to VW/Audi.
Michael


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