# DIY: Rear brake change



## KVWilliams (Feb 15, 2010)

So, how hard is it? Any online walk-through's out there? 

About a month ago, I took my 2010 4motion SE Tig /w 38k miles to the dealer for an oil change and they said I only had 2mm left on my rear pads and quoted me 800 bucks to do the job. :what: 

Included in that quote were new rear rotors. When I asked him why not just turn the originals, he said they cannot be turned. I said, why because they are worn down too much? He said no, when changing Tiguan brake pads, the rotors must be replaced as well regardless of rotor width. Is he feeding me a bunch of bullsh!t or is there truth to what he's saying? :sly:

I have some mechanical experience from playing around with mustangs when I was younger so if it's not too advanced or doesn't requires VW specific equipment, I feel like it's probably doable provided I at least find a basic walk-thru. 

Any input on the above is highly highly appreciated! :wave:


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Easy is a relative term. You need a piston compressor to retract the pistons, one that will do clockwise and counter clockwise, because you have one of each. then you will need VCDS to open the electric parking brake and then reset it once finished. Other than these tools, the rest is a regular brake job. As to turning the rotors, i most cases there is not enough meat left. Rotors are a lot thinner today than they were even 5 years ago. They could be measured and compared to the minimum spec. the other problem is that once turned the thinner rotor can't handle as much heat and will be prone to warping. And this is why the dealer does not wish to turn them. If they do warp, you will be back in bitching that you spent money to turn them and now have to spend more to replace them.


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## KVWilliams (Feb 15, 2010)

shawng said:


> Easy is a relative term. You need a piston compressor to retract the pistons, one that will do clockwise and counter clockwise, because you have one of each. then you will need VCDS to open the electric parking brake and then reset it once finished. Other than these tools, the rest is a regular brake job. As to turning the rotors, i most cases there is not enough meat left. Rotors are a lot thinner today than they were even 5 years ago. They could be measured and compared to the minimum spec. the other problem is that once turned the thinner rotor can't handle as much heat and will be prone to warping. And this is why the dealer does not wish to turn them. If they do warp, you will be back in bitching that you spent money to turn them and now have to spend more to replace them.


Well crap! I was hoping you wouldn't need vagcom or anything beyond basic tools. Ugh... 

So it looks as though I will have to have it done professionally. What would you say is a competitive non-dealer price for the job done correctly (rotors replaced and all)?


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

The Rosstech people put out a video of what has to be done for the rear brakes, so you should check that out, just so you know what to ask about. I definitely wouldn't take it to Midas or what have you. The very least I would do is take it to a VW specialist, and ask them the right questions so you know that they have the right tools/knowledge for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHJMI4QkSy8&feature=related


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## NUGLER2010 (Jun 22, 2010)

*Rear brake job*

Yes you need a vagcom. To rest the caliper pistons, you need to turn the piston back and fourth a bit then just compress them back all the way. As far as having aftermarket shops do them we have cases where the have destroyed calipers. Replacing rotors is a common repair do to not having a lot of wear thickness. If we machined the rotors they would be at the wear limit , for safety reasons and liabilty issues we always replace the rotors with pads.


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## KVWilliams (Feb 15, 2010)

Just wanted to follow up.

I did end up having it done professionally and I figured I'd share. Perhaps my experience will assist anyone in the same area as me. 

- First I tried a 'highly recommended on yelp' shop called *Akin's Auto Repair *(782 Park Ave Unit 6, San Jose, CA 95126, (408) 885-1898): 
I've used them before in the past and while he (Akin), the way he talks, sort of reminds me of an aggressive salesman, he *did* previously do a satisfactory clutch job at a decent price for my girl friend's car so I figured I'd give him first priority and repeat business. So I called them up and started off by asking if they've ever done Audi or VW rear brakes with electronic brake control (meant to say electronic parking brake) but he just says "No!" and when I try to say something else, like to clarify "I meant electronic parking brake", he immediately interrupts and says.... "thank you, bye!" :sly: Wow, Okay then! That was rude. Perhaps he's gotten a bit too popular for his own good. That will be the last time I contact him. So back to searching on Yelp I went.

Now in case you don't know, Yelp is chalk full of politics and is known to use extortion against business owners regarding what reviews sort to the top, which are even seen and which get rejected, etc, so they are FAR from bias. They are a business to make money and they're doing it well by strong-arming smaller business to pay up. You need to take them with a grain of salt. But it at least gives me a easy way of searching what local shops around me can work on foreign cars (ideally specializing in VWs) without having to open up a phone book. 

- *Autowerkstat * (463 Blossom Hill Rd, Ste G, San Jose, CA 95123, (408) 224-1952):
Called them twice but no answer. However their voicemail recommended leaving them an email "for even faster response". They responded early morning, next day via email with this:
"labor is $245. 
I dont have the vin number to check parts from vw
but guessing $100 for rotors, $75 pads
plus tax"

- *House of Dubs* (5833 Winfield Blvd, San Jose, CA 95123, (408) 227-3827, http://www.hodveewee.com/): 
Called them and a young girl answered who was clueless to anything I said and I believe was just there to tell people to call back when the owner was available or take messages if absolutely necessary, lol. I decided to send them an email via their website but never got a response, even to this day.

- *Ministry of Transport* (40 Cleveland Ave, San Jose, CA 95128, (408) 293-0601):
Called them up and a very nice woman named Jill answer the phone. She was very receptive and friendly and pretty knowledgable about cars actually! She took down my information and my said she'd have Dan, the owner and head mechanic, do some research and get back to me the following morning (by this time it was quite late in the day). Just as promised, Dan the owner called me back 9am morning next day and left me a voicemail informing me he can do the job and specifically mentioned RosstechVCDS software needed which he has (nice - exactly what I wanted to hear!). I call back and Jill again answered, provided me brake pad choice options to generate a quote and said a one day turn around is totally do'able. $420 total estimate. Had an all around good vibe with them so I scheduled to have it done Thursday. 

Everything went as planned - Dan and Jill were a pleasure to meet and converse with. Dan said it took a good part of the day because he was treading carefully, making sure to charge up my battery, waiting extra long before disconnecting the vcds as to make sure he doesn't brick my computer as the video warned, etc. Otherwise it was a pretty normal job, no strangeness or oddities were encountered. I could tell he has a ton of experience with VW's and loves to talk shop if you're willing. I highly recommend anyone in the bay area, CA to give them a call if you don't want to do your own wrenching or pay dealer prices. :thumbup:


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Good to see all went well. Not surprised to see some rude places. It pays to shop around.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

it is possible to do a rear brake change WITHOUT a VCDS.

It requires unbolting the electronic parking brake.

iirc, someone on the CC forum posted a DIY on how to do this.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Yup that BS was floating around a while ago and promoting information that could lead a novice into destroying his brakes is irresponsible. Get the right tools and do the job properly.


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## massh0le3 (Dec 26, 2011)

*Tiguan rear brake job*

I didnt know anything about needed the VAG tool when I sat down to do my wife's rear brakes in her 11' Tiguan. Out of pure frustration do to needing this vehicle for monday morning and stubbornness, I proceeded. I gently removed the wiring plug. Place my clamp on the face of the piston and with just alittle bit of pressure applied began to turn the piston with some channel locks. I know, I know... Some real backwoods move. But, it worked. Gently turning and making sure i had a little pressure applied to the c clamp it retracted. I did one wheel at a time and tested the e brake with the wheel off to verify that it was applying itself. If I had the prior knowledge of needing the VAG tool I would have purchased it, but all the same its done. And all that talk about the sensors measuring pad thickness and everything is BS. Because one of the pads on the inside were worn to the rivets. So as some people have said its purely just a mechanical solenoid to trap the hydraulic pressure when its told. Just trying to let people know its been done. Not a thing wrong with the function and it only took me about an hour and a half...Good luck


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Just because you got lucky and didn't damage anything does not make the proper procedure BS.


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## TIGSEL (Dec 22, 2011)

Could be done with this tool kit, no VCDS needed: http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Brake_Tool/ES2153340/
There is a thread on audizine.


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## Roland 2.0T (Feb 28, 2011)

Yes, by all means get that tool kit, it will save the day. Tried to do the rear brakes on my '08 GTI, similar setup, tried a tool from Autozone, didn't work, tried to make my own, didn't work, finally tried the channel lock trick, worked, but barely, did chew up the metal a bit. First wheel took 4 hours, the second 20 min. Told myself what I already knew, USE THE RIGHT TOOLS FOR THE JOB!


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Guys, the ECS kit is used to retract the pistons. VCDS is used to open the parking brake and then reset it. Two different tools for two different tasks. :banghead:


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## LeMechant (Mar 17, 2008)

There is also a misconception (I'm noticing in other forum posts) about needing to rotate the piston on the Tiguan. The Tiguan is set up completely differently than your car that DOES NOT HAVE AN ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKE. You need the VAG to open the parking brake, and then a simple C clamp can push the piston back, no need to rotate as you push. No need to buy the special piston retraction tool.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

You sir are grossly mistaken. I do this for a living and you are just lucky you did not damage the calipers. They MUST be rotated back in. And one is clockwise and one in counter-clockwise.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

shawng said:


> You sir are grossly mistaken. I do this for a living and you are just lucky you did not damage the calipers. They MUST be rotated back in. And one is clockwise and one in counter-clockwise.


2 brake changes on the Passat using a C-clamp, VCDS & battery charger.... have not damaged it yet. Bentley manual doesn't say you have to rotate the piston back in.

for cars with a mechanical e-brake lever, yes, you have to rotate the piston back in


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## veedub64 (Jul 29, 2010)

I have a friend who is a VW master tech and I asked him specifically last night if you need a vag-com to do this and do you need to rotate the caplier pistons because I have new front and rear rotors and pads to go on and his exact response was, "Yes to both questions!"

Needless to say he will be doing mine.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

You know, I don't come here to start a pissing contest, but i am always concerned with backyard info that causes someone to damage their cars and jeopardize their safety. It's all well and good to do something the wrong way and get a positive outcome, but it is another to mis- advise someone else.


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## Lordboost (Dec 31, 2005)

FWIW, I did my own rears a few months ago with the aid of my Vagcom and in preparation of rotating the rear calipers back I also bought the required tool kit. _*However,*_ I can assure you that on my 2009 Tiguan I *DID NOT* need to rotate the pistons. Fact is, they simply compressed back in without any need to rotate them at all. No pissing contest, just a fact from my own personal experience.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Don't know what to say, we have had to wind them in. Knowing VW, they have sourced both types without telling anyone. I think the take away here is to be informed and careful.


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## TIGSEL (Dec 22, 2011)

Here is the thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ake-parking-myth-broken?highlight=rear+brakes


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## LeMechant (Mar 17, 2008)

BsickPassat said:


> 2 brake changes on the Passat using a C-clamp, VCDS & battery charger.... have not damaged it yet. Bentley manual doesn't say you have to rotate the piston back in.
> 
> for cars with a mechanical e-brake lever, yes, you have to rotate the piston back in


Thank you Bsick


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## Dietmar (Sep 3, 2006)

shawng said:


> You sir are grossly mistaken. I do this for a living and you are just lucky you did not damage the calipers. They MUST be rotated back in. And one is clockwise and one in counter-clockwise.


Hi there... 

I am coming up to the brake job... front and back... which one is clockwise and which one counterclockwise ? Bought the Schwaben tool and have VCDS. Does the clockwise/counterclockwise also apply to the fronts ? don't think so but this would be my first brake job and I do not want to f it up


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

I had to look it up and I am glad I did, the page in the shop manual with the instruction has a date of 2011, and it looks like it was revised to now show a non rotating compression tool. You must first expand the piston with VCDS, but once done the piston will compress back in just like the fronts. The last time looked at this page was in 2010, so there you go. My previous comments are now incorrect (and I am not afraid to admit it).


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## Dietmar (Sep 3, 2006)

thanks for the quick answer...:thumbup:


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

*So just to clarify:*

Based on Shawn's last post and what others have said, do I or do I _not_ need a tool (such as the one from ECS) that rotates the rear brake piston as it compresses it? Mine is a 2010 Tiguan SE 4 motion.


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## liquidvw (Mar 20, 2003)

Robert~NRW said:


> Based on Shawn's last post and what others have said, do I or do I _not_ need a tool (such as the one from ECS) that rotates the rear brake piston as it compresses it? Mine is a 2010 Tiguan SE 4 motion.


Here are my notes on the subject. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6971354-Tigan-Rear-Brakes-notes&highlight=rear+brakes

I was prepared with the tool to rotate the pistons in as I have a MK4 which needs rear brakes every 40K miles or so. In the case of the Tiguan it wasn't necessary for me. Just use Vagcom as instructed in the video and the piston slid straight back very easily.


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks LiquidVW for the link to your notes. 
The video wasn’t definitive about what to connect the charger to. On the Tiguan, did you connect the charger directly to the battery terminals? 
Also not sure what you meant by “The video talks about after your done setting and releasing the parking brake. In order to release the brake the car can't be off.The video doesn't say that. “ in your notes. Seems like a typo in there somewhere and with all the warnings about how the electronics can be so easily messed up, I want to be sure I understand everything about the procedure.
FYI, I bought a subscription to ALLDATA for my Tiguan and they also show what appears to be a straight expansion tool (rather than a rotating one) to push the pistons of the caliper in.


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## liquidvw (Mar 20, 2003)

Robert~NRW said:


> Thanks LiquidVW for the link to your notes.
> The video wasn’t definitive about what to connect the charger to. On the Tiguan, did you connect the charger directly to the battery terminals?
> Also not sure what you meant by “The video talks about after your done setting and releasing the parking brake. In order to release the brake the car can't be off.The video doesn't say that. “ in your notes. Seems like a typo in there somewhere and with all the warnings about how the electronics can be so easily messed up, I want to be sure I understand everything about the procedure.
> FYI, I bought a subscription to ALLDATA for my Tiguan and they also show what appears to be a straight expansion tool (rather than a rotating one) to push the pistons of the caliper in.


I directly connected to the battery terminals and used the 2amp setting on my battery charger. 

At some point in the video it says to set the parking brake ie pull up on the button. Then release the brake. ie push down the button. In order for the release to happen you need to have the key in the ignition and turned to on. Otherwise you cant release the brake. 

As to the caliper piston, I used a screwdriver like in the video.


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks again for the reply and clarification


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## bpeter (Dec 6, 2014)

shawng said:


> I had to look it up and I am glad I did, the page in the shop manual with the instruction has a date of 2011, and it looks like it was revised to now show a non rotating compression tool. You must first expand the piston with VCDS, but once done the piston will compress back in just like the fronts. The last time looked at this page was in 2010, so there you go. My previous comments are now incorrect (and I am not afraid to admit it).


Shawng, just to confirm, does your revised answer apply to 2011 Tiguan S 2.0?
If I still do need a special tool. which piston needs to be turned clockwise and which one counterclockwise? (I do have the correct tool, but I hate to guess).

Also, do you have any info on the torque specs for the rear brake bolts? 

Thanks,
Peter


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

My statement applies to all years. Pistons need only be pressed back in. I don't have a torque spec handy. I typically just impact them tight.


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

*why can't I??*

just remove the electric motor from the back of the caliper and then rotate the piston in?


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## badbrn (Mar 29, 2015)

This sounds good to me. I have changed pads on other vehicles 2 or 3 times before. I opened the little brake fluid drain thing and I believe I gently pried the pistons out with a big screwdriver, put new pads in and the pistons go back into position when u step on the brakes. Have to find out if these special tools are to disable the electric parking break because I plan to get a new passat. Wish they had the old mechanical cable brake which had nothing wrong with it. What possibly could go wrong with this new, great idea? I'm hearing owners have had problems with these things getting stuck because they got mud or water in them. Who could have thunk that could happen?


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Opening the bleeder without doing a proper fluid bleed can introduce air into the system. Unless you are bleeding the brakes, there is no need to open the bleeder.


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## liquidvw (Mar 20, 2003)

badbrn said:


> This sounds good to me. I have changed pads on other vehicles 2 or 3 times before. I opened the little brake fluid drain thing and I believe I gently pried the pistons out with a big screwdriver, put new pads in and the pistons go back into position when u step on the brakes. Have to find out if these special tools are to disable the electric parking break because I plan to get a new passat. Wish they had the old mechanical cable brake which had nothing wrong with it. What possibly could go wrong with this new, great idea? I'm hearing owners have had problems with these things getting stuck because they got mud or water in them. Who could have thunk that could happen?



I think your joking and/or trolling. You don't open the bleeder screw in order to compress the caliper piston.


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## Medrison (Jan 15, 2016)

You do not need a VAG-COM. Just remove the electric motor and manually turn the screw to release the piston. Then push it with a hammer or your tools. It is so easy. One you done, when you apply the electric brake, it will go back in place. I did it myself and had no problem. Brakes works nice same as park brake. And I am an electronics engineer, not mechanic, and consider the job complexity as any other brake job.


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## 89foxbox (Dec 10, 2002)

Medrison said:


> You do not need a VAG-COM. Just remove the electric motor and manually turn the screw to release the piston. Then push it with a hammer or your tools. It is so easy. One you done, when you apply the electric brake, it will go back in place. I did it myself and had no problem. Brakes works nice same as park brake. And I am an electronics engineer, not mechanic, and consider the job complexity as any other brake job.


I feel it a disservice to say this is an acceptable method with out at least mentioning that there is increased risk to component and operation when performing critical maintenance outside of factory recommendations. 

I'm glad this method worked for you.

That being said, anyone in the Salt Lake City area that need to service their rear brakes may feel free to contact me. I have VAGcom and all necessary tools to complete the job and would be happy to help.


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## vwmaniac312 (Sep 5, 2017)

*easiest way*

This is the cheapest only tool that will get it retracted besides that vag com. http://amzn.to/2x6eHdJ It’s a scanner made by autel. You click on the EPB setting pick euorpean, vw , special functions, then deactivate brake, it will rewind the brake piston, turn ignition off. Then you change the brakes as normal. When finished go back to the scanner, same thing and this time activate the brakes instead of deactivate on the scanner. The 12 volt method can cause damage to the ecm


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## pperras01 (Oct 31, 2016)

Just did the rear brakes on a 2016 tiguan. I unbolted the rear calipers electric motors using a torx t30 socket and then use a t40 socket to unscrew the adjuster totally manually and finaly pushed back the pistons without rotating them. Reinstalled the motors and voila done without any vag or special tool, pushed a couple of time on the brake pedal and then tried the hand brake and it worked as normal.


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## pperras01 (Oct 31, 2016)

Just did a rear brake job on a 2016 Tiguan, Discs and pads as they where all rusted after 2 years and 50 000km:banghead:

To retract the caliper without any VAG or special toll you need to unbolt the rear motor from the caliper with 2 T30 torx screw then retrat manually the hand brake mecanism with a T40 torx socket and push back the piston without rotating it.

once you have replaced everything in new, step in the car push the brake pedal a few times and the you can activate the parking brake, it will take a second longer to grab cause it was retrated all the way. Voila!


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