# MS3 not synced



## TRFwhitey (Feb 23, 2009)

Whats up everyone, my ms3 will sync when ignition is not powered... when I power the ignition it looses sync. 

MS3 
distributorless 
034 60-2 wheel/ universal VR 
60* BTDC (can change to 80*+ if needed) 
Wasted spark 
ITB 

Any help would be appreciated. :beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Do you mean it disconnects/resets when you crank it?


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## TRFwhitey (Feb 23, 2009)

Ignition is on a toggle switch so when turned off and cranking it will show sync, when I switch the ignition on it will loose sync and then will sync... on off on off etc.. 

Also it only looses sync when firing at the proper BTDC point, if I change the setting to say 30* ATDC it will stay synced but ovoiulsy not fire.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

By "ignition" you mean the coils?


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## TRFwhitey (Feb 23, 2009)

need_a_VR6 said:


> By "ignition" you mean the coils?


Yes, power to the wasted spark coil pack


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

I'm helping with this build...

Everything is on a toggle switch..

ECU on > coils off > injectors off = we get solid green sync with no loss of sync wile cranking
ECU on > coils on > injectors on = we get sync and then non sync red/green over and over wile cranking
ECU on > coils on > injectors off = we get sold green sync with no loss of sync wile cranking

It only starts to lose sync when we get combustion (engine movement) Also the VR sensor is almost touching the toothed wheel, that's the only way we can get it to sync, anything past .5mm away from the wheel and we loose sync. ING ground is grounded to the ecu and we have good power and grounds.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So it's connected to the firing event, not necessarily the combustion. Every time the VR sensor sends a pulse to the injectors, it loses sync. How are the grounds?


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

B4S said:


> So it's connected to the firing event, not necessarily the combustion. Every time the VR sensor sends a pulse to the injectors, it loses sync. How are the grounds?


Didn't even think about the injectors... :thumbup: Grounds are good, good continuity.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Go under diagnostics and see what the wheel decoder does during the sync loss. The only thing that makes sense is some noise on the vr line.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

If it is noise on the VR circuit, try adding a 10k 1/4 watt resistor to VR+. It sounds to me like you have an inverted VR signal though...... When you check the signal with the TS diagnostics you should have only 1 long line, if there are 2 then the signal IS inverted.


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Go under diagnostics and see what the wheel decoder does during the sync loss. The only thing that makes sense is some noise on the vr line.


I did some logging and not much happens when loosing sync, just a very short section of vertical lines. Still learning how to use the diagnostics part of it so bare with me. 




Prof315 said:


> If it is noise on the VR circuit, try adding a 10k 1/4 watt resistor to VR+. It sounds to me like you have an inverted VR signal though...... When you check the signal with the TS diagnostics you should have only 1 long line, if there are 2 then the signal IS inverted.


What logger type should I be under when viewing the "lines"? Also the vr sensor is a 2 wire, black (ground) and red (signal output) but I will double check my wiring. I tried using the noise filtering but no luck, I will however try the inline resistor trick.

Thanks for the advice fellas, much appreciated. :thumbup:


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ALLGORIMSHOW said:


> I did some logging and not much happens when loosing sync, just a very short section of vertical lines. Still learning how to use the diagnostics part of it so bare with me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you want to use the tooth logger.


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

Prof315 said:


> you want to use the tooth logger.


Ok I did that and all I got was a very small section of vertical lines.


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> You won't fry anything with that sensor. The 'right' way to do it is run that all the way back to the MS box, red on 24 and black/shield on the same ground point. The DIY setup with the single shielded wire can still be noisy with a VR sensor. What I've done before is use the center for + and the shield for - and then cover that in a braid to use as an actual shield.


Quote from older post...

I have my universal sensor wired up / Black to ground on MS ECU / Red signal output to MS white "ign" wire/ Shields soldered together/


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

info on sync loss rpm drop: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/syncloss.html

info on the tooth logger: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_tooth_logger.html


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

Prof315 said:


> info on sync loss rpm drop: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/syncloss.html
> 
> info on the tooth logger: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_tooth_logger.html


Thanks, been through all that.

Im just going to send my datalogs and msq file to someone who knows what they are doing.

Thanks for all the help.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Email em to me, even the tooth log. Make sure you let me know if its ign on or off. Also I have never had good luck with unshielded sensors.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Email em to me, even the tooth log. Make sure you let me know if its ign on or off. Also I have never had good luck with unshielded sensors.


Really? We have had excellent results with the VR sensor from a 4.0L Ford explorer. 5 1/2" 36-1 wheel and can rev to 8500 cleanly.


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## TRFwhitey (Feb 23, 2009)

*re*

Starter crapped out before I could try and log today...If it weren't for bad luck I wouldnt have any at all!:facepalm:

Big shout out to ALLGORIMSHOW, he's been there with me through thick and thin with this build and I don't know anyone else I could say the same about. If it weren't for him I would have already gave up....twice....maybe three times :laugh: :beer:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The 2 wire sensor is fine, as long as its a short, remote lead. Generally people will use those with no shield also, which is the problem. Add in board igniters and its a mess!


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## TRFwhitey (Feb 23, 2009)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Email em to me, even the tooth log. Make sure you let me know if its ign on or off. Also I have never had good luck with unshielded sensors.


Pm sent


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

I got it. Looks like resets, need a reg datalog to confirm. Almost all the tooth logs are just of one rotation of the crank.


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