# Car randomly dies while driving on freeway



## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Good Morning everyone,

I have a real problem with my beetle 2001 GLS 2.0L (AVH) 4 speed. I saw a MKIV thread that
had the same problem I did and I started talking to them, but I was told to start a new thread here and put a link to what I 
have said on that thread.

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...on-freeway&p=113739209&posted=1#post113739209

That is the link I will answer any questions anybody has to help me solve this problem.

If anybody near Frederick MD has a vagcom that would like to help, it would be greatly appreciated.

Looking forward on hearing from anybody and thank you for reading!

What I have done:

car has 139,000 miles

at 138,000 
-spark plugs and wires
-oxygen sensor
-crankshaft sensor
-oil and filter
-coolant flush
-Brakes all around and brake flush
-control arms with poly bushings and
new ball joints
-inner and outer tie rods 
-409 relay and 428 relay

at 139,000
-ignition switch
-fuel filter


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

My bet is a cam sensor since I don't see that on the list. Even if you got a scan from AutoZone that will be better then nothing.

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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

no codes on scanners...obdeleven, autozone, advance auto parts and local mecanic.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

A quick read through of the previous thread; seems to indicate you might have some fuel delivery related issues (e.g. fuel tank low; "the car also dies when starting the fuel reserve"). Fuel pumps are cooled by the fuel in the tank; as they get worn out, they get hot from wear, then they start malfunctioning, start/stop pumping fuel, you fuel pressure gets low and fuel starvation, can occur (theoretically the car could die; as you are experiencing). At 138k and almost 18 years old; I can only assume, your fuel pump is weak and/or failing. You might pull up the seat, set the carpet aside, remove the phillips screws off the fuel pump cover and inspect the top of the pump. Look of a VDO and VW/Audi logo on it; if there is one, then it is most likely is the original pump and needs replaced. You could go ahead and do some fuel pressure testing and see how things look. A fuel pump failing, will not typically throw any trouble codes but sometimes, you will get a fuel trim lean code (lack of fuel/starvation). 

Fuel trim: 

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Fuel_Trim_Info

fuel pressure testing: 

https://workshop-manuals.com/volksw...essure_vacuum_and_temperature_specifications/

If you decide to replace the fuel pump; stick with high quality oem fuel pumps from VDO and BOSCH, these have been proven to work as they should. DO NOT buy a cheap aftermarket pump; that are typically, sould online and through your typical auto parts store. Along with the new fuel pump; go ahead and replace the fuel filter (already done?) and the fuel pressure regulator. 

You have thrown, quite a few parts at the car; the typical one, for dying would be a crank sensor but that will throw a trouble code. 

Another thing to do; especially with such high mileage, is to clean and align the throttle body, this can eliminate a rough idle and sometimes, dying condition (say, slowing down to a stop light or off the highway). 

Do some testing, check your fuel trims, see if the fuel pump is original, confirm the fuel pressure, possibly clean/adapt your throttle body with obdeleven and report back, we can go from there. Thanks.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Thank you sir for that response! I left the car yesterday at the dealer for the cluster malfunction, I bought a new one but dont have the software to program the new one 
to the car or reset the old one. So we will see what they tell me today. As for the fuel pump I kinda new that could be the problem so I ordered a couple of days ago the
Bosch 69740 so I think I made the right choice according to your post. I will buy a new fuel pressure regulator. Can you tell me how to adapt the throttle body with 
OBDeleven? I have the pro edition I just dont know how to use it in depth. I did clean the whole thing when I took of the air intake out to change the spark plugs.

Thank you again!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Well, it sounds like you are moving forward with repairs and hopefully you will get things handled soon. 

As for the throttle body alignment; i don't have obdeleven but the procedures are similar to what is done in vcds. This video should help: 

https://youtu.be/YiOtKbj75Hk

Be sure to keep us in the loop; on the vw dealer repairs and speedo cluster repair costs. This type of info, can help others in the future; as many owners, are in the same boat as you but in some cases the speedos are "nla" (no longer available) and so repair or a used part is the only option. Thanks!


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

I will sir, got a call from the dealer, the cluster apparently was damaged, there was no communication. So I had another cluster that I got from a 
pull apart, they are going to install it and program it for $400 including $90 for parts. The parts apparently are some wiring harness connectors, I am
thinking they are the ones on the back of the cluster, I didn't get more info on that. But once I do I will keep everybody posted. Once I get the car back
they said 3 or 4 days, 1 or 2 till they get the parts. I will change the fuel pump and see if the car doesn't die anymore. Thank you for the link.

When they program the cluster, they have to program the throttle also right?


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Well, at least they will hopefully get everything working correctly again; the programming, would be soft coding for the cluster, matching all the keys and then swapping the odometer reading (they probably cannot do that; as you have a used cluster with accumulated milage, it would need to be zero'd out first). As to the throttle body alignment settings; it might need to be reset, if they disconnect the battery but not always, the settings reside in ecu and not the speedo, which is where the immobilizer chip is.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

understood thank you for the explanation, once I get the car back I will try to get in the setting of obdeleven and try to reset the throttle


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

***UPDATE***

Hi guys well, I wish I would have good news but I dont...took car to the dealer and the mechanic told me that there was a short on the cluster, I told him I had one in the trunk so they went ahead and installed it and programmed it for $375 dollars. The day I went to pick up the car, I payed and was waiting for 10 minutes, went inside...the car wouldnt start...well it had a code the crankshaft sensor......again.......I had already told them that I had changed it so I said F it, they just charge me for the part and labor was free (they where really nice at the dealer) $152 so they changed it and the car started right up and everything was perfect....untill today, I am in a flight right now, I was on my way to the airport and it died...DEAD...crank no start. Waited like 10 to 15 min...nothing....20 min nothing...called the tow truck and a friend of mine...$200 for the tow truck and my roomate received the car cause I had a flight to catch...scanned the car before I left...guess what P0321...crankshaft again? Please help!!!!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Ugh, so sorry; you are really going through hell of a troubleshooting nightmare on this one! :banghead: I guess, you are going to have to decide; how to approach this one and who is going to work on it, after your visit to the VW dealership (have them take another stab at it, you jump back in, figure it out yourself or punt?). :facepalm: When you get back from your airplane trip; tell us, how you want to proceed and we will be here to help, if we can! Oorah!  eace::thumbup:


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16705/P0321/000801

crank sensor testing info; service manual link: 

https://workshop-manuals.com/volksw..._and_inspection/with_manufacturers_scan_tool/


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks man I really aprecciate it! When I get back to the US, Ill see what I can do, my roomate called me yesterday and told me that when the tow truck arrived at the apt, the car started right up...this is frustrating...and thanks again this is a great community


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

10/4, get back with us; when you are on the ground and working with this problem child again and we can go from there! Thanks! :facepalm::banghead::thumbup:


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Just got home and went to the car, and it started right up with no hesitation. It had a code P0321 so because the dealer changed the crankshaft sensor I took it to them to figure it out since the part and labor had warranty. I am thinking is the harness...just a tought. Ill keep everyone posted.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16705/P0321/000801

Yeah, since they did the repairs related to the problem; I would take it back there as well, hopefully they will fix it and your problems will finally be solved! :facepalm: eace:


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey guys, here is my update, got back from my flight last monday, brought the car to the dealer, theyve had it ever since...on friday they gave me a loaner a 2019 tiguan with 300 miles...I guess I will wait till they call me, Ill keep you guys posted


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Well, lets hope they get it fixed; meanwhile, let us know, what you think of the 2019 tiguan!~  eace:


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

billymade said:


> Well, lets hope they get it fixed; meanwhile, let us know, what you think of the 2019 tiguan!~  eace:


He is going to end up buying it! 

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## BobD926 (Aug 18, 2017)

Hey just a comment from somebody following this thread--awesome level of help and knowledge being shared here!

Thanks much to @billymade and others for sharing their thoughts to help the OP and educate the rest of us. :thumbup:


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey guys, still no word from the dealer. And NO I will not buy the 2019 Tiguan, I can share my thoughts about it after a week of driving it and 700 miles (dealer is gonna be so pissed LoL, but they didnt include a limit of miles in the loaner contract) the body is heavy for the 2.0T it feels like it needs more power, also the steering is so light and without feedback, you feel disconnected from the road. Average MPG has been 25 in highway and city combined. 18 in city. A lot of cargo space, A LOT. All the bells and whistles you can think of, heated: seats, steering, windshield, rear mirrors. 4 motion all wheel drive, digital cluster, android auto, apple car, folding rear mirros, adaptive headlights (LOVE THE HEADLIGHTS) when you turn the steering another light inside the headlight, lights the side, its amazing. Automatic high beam, adaptive cruise control, hate the lane assist, and the pannoramic sunroof with the automatic shade is amazing...any other questions let me know but I would get the Atlas with the bigger engine.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Any updates? I hope it is fixed by now? :screwy::wave:


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

I would hope so...but...NO...Ive put 1000 miles on the loaner LOL, I went 2 days ago to ask why I havnt got any updates and they said that the mechanic that was working on it took a week of vacation so I was like its cool cause I got the loaner, they called me today and they said that the mechanic came in today and the car shut off on him (finally) they where not able to replicate the problem last week. Dealer said they will be working on it for the next few days and they will let me know. I will keep everybody up to date with whatever they say in the next few days. And thank you for being so proactive and asking about my problem billymade!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Yeah, let us know what ends up being the problem; after all this work, I am genuinely curios, what the issue is with this car! eace:


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Well, got the call from the dealer, after long diagnostic journey, they said the car needs a new ECM. They charged me 229 dollars for diagnostics that for a whole month and a half is not bad. They want to charge me 850 for the new ECM and 1 hour of work extra...at this point I dont know if I am going to do it. Because ai honestly dont trust the car...what do you guys think?


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> Yeah, let us know what ends up being the problem; after all this work, I am genuinely curios, what the issue is with this car! <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/eek.gif" border="0" alt="" title="EEK!" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/cool.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/tongue.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Stick Out Tongue" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/peace.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Peace" class="inlineimg" />


What do you think Billy?


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Well, it depends; if you are willing, to "jump back in", to doing some of the repairs on the car or if you want to have the vw dealer handle it, until they finally fix the car correctly, making it a usable vehicle to drive. 

If you want to save some money and are willing to do some more wrenching on it, you could ship out the ecu for repair and replace it, thus keeping a big chunk of dough in your pocket.  Getting the ecu repaired/remanufactured; assuming it is fixable, has the added benefit of not requiring any key matching or required soft coding for a "new" ecu (the old one; after being repaired would be "plug/play" no programming required). 

The ecu repair option: is assuming, their "diagnosis" of the ecu being bad, is correct and ends up fixing the problems you are currently having. Whether or not, this will be the final solution; to all your problems, is a open question at this point. 

Let just assume; this is the problem, in that case, having the ecu repaired, could be a viable option and save you money, assuming you still want to be involved in repairs or having the vw dealership, fully complete repairs, get back on the road is the other option but you have to pay, whatever costs, they are estimating for the total parts/labor, etc. $850 is allot of money for a ecu; you might get your original one repaired, install it yourself or see, if they are willing to install your remanufactured ecu, move forward with the repair process with them, that way you are @ $229 and the extra 1 hour for the install. That sounds like a big savings to me and with a remanufactured ecu; the repairs would be complete with a substantial savings to boot! Let me know, what you think and I hope, you get the car repaired soon and are back on the road, enjoying your new beetle, once again!  :wave:


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> Well, it depends; if you are willing, to "jump back in", to doing some of the repairs on the car or if you want to have the vw dealer handle it, until they finally fix the car correctly, making it a usable vehicle to drive.
> 
> If you want to save some money and are willing to do some more wrenching on it, you could ship out the ecu for repair and replace it, thus keeping a big chunk of dough in your pocket.  Getting the ecu repaired/remanufactured; assuming it is fixable, has the added benefit of not requiring any key matching or required soft coding for a "new" ecu (the old one; after being repaired would be "plug/play" no programming required).
> 
> ...


People like you is what makes me wanna come back to the forum, Do you know where I can get the ECU repaired? I am willing to do the work since its like 4 screws lol. If I am not mistaken, the ECM is on the 
driver side of the dash.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

We have heard about a number of vendors; offering automotive ecu repair/remanufacturing services: whether or not, yours can be , is another open question. Here are some that members have used, mentioned or seem to be known about online.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

BBA REMAN: vendor, that seems to have started in Europe; we have heard of mixed results with them, many speedo clusters sent in, end up not being repairable, ecu's also, not always fixable? 

http://www.bba-reman.com/us/index.aspx

Eric O, of youtube "SMA" fame; seems to recommend and use United Radio, a repair center with a long history. I have not used them but if Eric uses them for his repairs: I would think, that they are a good repair service shop: 

https://www.unitedradio.com/automotive-electronics/repair-remanufacturing/

Within the VW enthusiast community; there are some small one man type shops, that do tuning, component repairs and things, like software mods, immobilizer deletes, speedo cluster customization, etc. 

Clusters by Litke: Seems to be popular with the VW fans who want their speedos modded but seems to offer other repair services as well: 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/ClustersbyLitke/posts/

Reflect Tuning: Ian offers a wide range of software and hardware based repairs, tuning and mods. I had him, zero out my new/used speedo cluster; so, I could swap it in and transfer my odometer reading from my old damaged cluster. 

https://www.reflecttuning.com/

There seem to be many vendors online; offering repair services, I am not familiar with them: 

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...hUKEwjy3K_W1u3lAhVDip4KHasvDZUQ4dUDCAs&uact=5

Many people's experiences; seem to be a mixed bag, some claim their parts were destroyed in attempted repairs or their part is "unrepairable". It is hard to know, what the reality of these situations is; as board level repairs, requires skills, understanding, software flashing capability and other repair ability, that is beyond what most of us are capable of. At the end of the day; one wants the parts repaired or the software data, transferred to a good used/repaired part. Your mileage may vary; I have heard positive/negative reviews of many vendors. I haven't used them but after watching Eric O's video; about National Radio, they come off as being very professional and a legit company, again I have never used them. 

If anyone else, has some experience with having their ecu repaired/remanufactured; please, chime in and help a brother out! Thanks!


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> BBA REMAN: vendor, that seems to have started in Europe; we have heard of mixed results with them, many speedo clusters sent in, end up not being repairable, ecu's also, not always fixable?
> 
> http://www.bba-reman.com/us/index.aspx
> 
> ...


As always Billymade, thank you for all your information I will look into those vendors and see which one would be the best one for me, and see if its even worth for me to get the ECU fixed, and as soom as I know I will let you guys know. Have a great weekend and thank you again!!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Sounds good, lets get your car fixed!  eace: I hope you can get this thing; back on the road soon! :thumbup:


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Sent email to bba-reman.com to see if they can give me a quote...still no answer. Will update when I get one.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Also contacted reflect tunning today


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

From reflect tuning: "hi, we do not fix ecu's. it is much more cost efficient and simpler to replace the ecu itself. we can offer immo defeat for a used ecu to make the swap plug and play."

Really fast response, less than 30 minutes...


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

How do I find a compatible ecm to buy?


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

You will probably not get responses from most vendors; during the thanksgiving weekend, as they will be closed for the holidays but will probably get some on Monday, during normal business hours sometime during the rest of next week. If you need a faster response; calling on the phone, maybe a better way to go, if you have the time during normal business hours. 

Reflect tuning seems to be a one man, type small business and so, it makes sense, he would try to respond and provide responsive customer service, to keep his business going. 

Ian brings up a good point; the direction you go on repair or replacement of your ecu, specifically it depends on if you want your immo intact or delete it. 

Acquiring a new or used ecu; definitely requires a correct/compatible part. I would pull the ecu and get the part number off of it, then search for a used one with the same part number. VW may also have a revised part number for a new ecu; you could contact your local vw dealers parts dept with your vin # and ask for a price quote, part number. Acquiring a used ecu, would be the next hurdle; local junk yards, ebay or posting a "wtb" ad, on vw enthusiasts sites might help you find the ecu you need. 

If you want to have the immo system intact and keep the car's ant theft system stock; contact repair service vendors and see what prices they offer and decide on who to go with, then ship it out for repair. Most offer quick turnaround; on ecu repairs and do so, people don't have their car down for very long. The benefit of the repair route; is you know for a fact, the part is compatible/correct, the immo is intact, no coding or key matching is required and the repairs are complete, plug/play, your done!


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks Billy, honestly at this point I just want to use the car, its been siting for a couple of weeks, I am gonna call tomorrow some of the other places that can fix the computer and see how much it would be, but if that doesnt work Ill be working with Ian and take the immo down. I will update once I decide the route I am taking and thank you again


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Hopefully your original ecu is repairable; you find a vendor that can fix it quickly and at a reasonable cost with a lifetime warranty. I think the repair route; is probably the easiest, quickest and least hassle way to go.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Well called BBA-Reman today 3 times with no answer.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Hmm, try united radio or the many other vendors that do vw speedo repair. 

https://www.unitedradio.com/automotive-electronics/repair-remanufacturing/

https://www.google.com/search?clien...j33i22i29i30j33i299j0i22i30j0i333.W-ZulD0Q-1I


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> Hmm, try united radio or the many other vendors that do vw speedo repair.
> 
> https://www.unitedradio.com/automotive-electronics/repair-remanufacturing/
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?clien...j33i22i29i30j33i299j0i22i30j0i333.W-ZulD0Q-1I


I emailed united radio today.

I got the ecm part number today


06A 906 032 BS

Found one already remanufactured, but its out of my budget cause it still needs programming

https://www.autoecmstore.com/products/06a906032bs


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Also emailed this people to see if they do it.

https://theecuconnection.com/collec...ramming-service-engine-control-unit-ecu-me7-5


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

http://masrepair.com/contact/

Just emailed this people too 😄


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Dec 2, 5:08 PM EST

Hi Victor,

Thank you for contacting us!
Unfortunately, we do not support the service for this year, make and model.
We do not have the internal parts that are needed to make repairs for this part.

Thanks
MyAirbags Team


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Any updates or luck finding a ecu repair service? :screwy::banghead::snowcool:


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> Any updates or luck finding a ecu repair service? <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/screwy.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Screwy" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/tongue.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Stick Out Tongue" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/cool.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Banghead" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/snow_cool.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Snow Cool" class="inlineimg" />


Hey billy, I got in touch yesterday with Steven from TheECUConnection and he told me that they could not fix it, but they had one in stock, so I sent them my ECM yesterday so they can transfer the data to the new one and probably and hopefully have the beetle running next week. I will keep you updated. The price was 350 for the ECM and came down to 320 with military discount this includes shipping. I just couldnt keep waiting so I pulled the trigger with this people. Till now the service has been excellent we will see how everything turns out. Today United Radio answered and apologized about the late reply but I told them I went with somebody else. 😄


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Another known good ecu and all the hex data transferred over; is a quicker and solid solution, should be plug/play, assuming the parts are good, correct and the data is brought over intact, not scrambled or the eeprom damaged. Let us know; how the install and startup goes! I hope this is the correct diagnosis, final fix for your ongoing problems and that you will be back on the road soon!


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

I hope so 2, it has taken longer than I expected to get this car on the road. I will let everybody know if everything goes smooth. This shop appears to be very customer focused (as it should be), we will see how the work is so everyone can go here and get good
reliable service.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey guys, got my ecm today, installed it, car ran for 6 miles...and dead...I dont know what to do I dont want to spend any more money in it...


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## Rockerchick (May 10, 2005)

So the dealer was who suggested the new ECM right? What diagnostics did they do? Did they test the fuel system? I don't see fuel pump on your list of repairs, was that done? Fuel pump relay checked out? 

Unfortunately, I've seen many times that the dealers don't troubleshoot well and just jump to big ticket items like an ECU when its another issue entirely.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Hi, and thanks for the reply...when I started having the problem, I suspected the fuel pump, I replaced the relay just in case, but never did the fuel pump because the car was throwing the crankshaft sensor code...


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Rockerchick said:


> So the dealer was who suggested the new ECM right? What diagnostics did they do? Did they test the fuel system? I don't see fuel pump on your list of repairs, was that done? Fuel pump relay checked out?
> 
> Unfortunately, I've seen many times that the dealers don't troubleshoot well and just jump to big ticket items like an ECU when its another issue entirely.


Yes you are correct the dealer suggested it...I need to take a a look at the paperwork again to tell you exactly what was troubleshooted but that was their diagnosis


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

I just scanned the car, it has code P0321, P1113, P0420, P0606.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16705/P0321/000801

A bad speed/crank sensor; would certainly cause the engine to die but i thought you had this replaced already?


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17521/P1113


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16804/P0420/001056


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16990/P0606/001542

This seems like a odd trouble code but i don't know if these were from before you replaced the ecu? You might try a hard reset and clear the trouble codes. Then take the car for a test drive or just run the car for some time and see if any trouble codes come back. Scan for trouble codes again and then post those codes, then we can go from there.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16990/P0606/001542
> 
> This seems like a odd trouble code but i don't know if these were from before you replaced the ecu? You might try a hard reset and clear the trouble codes. Then take the car for a test drive or just run the car for some time and see if any trouble codes come back. Skin for color codes again and then post those codes, then we can go from there.


Hey billy thanks for all that info, I suspected the same thing you said...before I scanned the car it was running for an hour, I turned it off, scanned, clear the codes, then let it run for another hour, then I took it for a 6 mile drive around my building complex (a lot of circles), I let it sit for another hour, took it for a 2 mile run...and now is sitting in my parking space running...and no codes...I dont know what to say...I dont want to jinx it..


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

That is strange: keep in mind, you have a totally different ecu with the old hex data flashed on to it from the old damaged ecu; it could be a been a case, where the throttle body alignment settings were lost and it took some time, drive cycles and off/on ignition switch cycles, from them to be learned, reset and be, act normally again? 

I have noticed, when a battery goes dead is disconnected or ecu is unplugged, the eeprom settings changed/programmed, throttle body settings or immobilizer, can get scrambled and the ecu can get "confused". A hard reset or throttle body alignment and/or clearing codes; has "fixed", many a weird problem for me, over the years. 

I guess you need to continue to drive, start and test the vehicle, close to home; hopefully, things have gone back to normal? Many weird issues can be resolved by a hard reset, clearing codes and doing a throttle body alignment. Keep us informed as you continue to test and try out your car; let's hope you finally got it fixed! Good work man!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Any updates? :screwy:  Is it still running and not dying on you?  I hope so! eace::thumbup:


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Checking in again; i hope you have been driving around, back on the road! Let us know, thanks!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

It sounds like you are continuing to have the engine dying and P0321 trouble code. 

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16705/P0321/000801

It would seem, you would need to do testing; that would confirm the sensor, wiring and ecu are good. Even though the vw dealer, has supposedly diagnosed the problem correctly; obviously, they didn't fix the problem. Keep in mind, that it is very common for the crank sensor to work find when cold and then, when it warms up, it will fail causing the engine to die or cause a no ir hard start problem. Note: just because the sensor is new; doesn't mean it isn't defective; genuine vw parts, have a 1 year warranty, so you should be able to get a new one under warranty if it is defective. 

Genuine Volkswagen Accessories installed by an authorized Volkswagen dealer are covered for the greater of: (1) the accessory limited warranty period (12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever occurs first) from the time of purchase; or (2) the remainder of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty period.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

The next step would be to go through the factory service manual testing procedures and hopefully find the problem. 

Sensor location:

#21 g28 crank/engine speed sensor:

https://workshop-manuals.com/volksw...ntrol_module/component_information/locations/


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

G28 Sensor testing: 

https://workshop-manuals.com/volksw..._and_inspection/with_manufacturers_scan_tool/

As noted thermal issues; can cause the sensor, to work intermittently or stop working all-together. Some have removed their sensor; heated it up with a hairdryer or other means, thus replicating, the heat of a warmed up or hot engine, seeing if, it works in those different conditions. 

Basically, you are trying to get to the same conditions; as when the failure occurred and confirm the sensor is good or bad in those conditions once again.

If you can get the part to fail when testing; you would know for sure it is bad and you can replace it.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> G28 Sensor testing:
> 
> https://workshop-manuals.com/volksw..._and_inspection/with_manufacturers_scan_tool/
> 
> ...


Hi Billy thanks for all that info, I tried everything you sent me, but I haven't been able to replicate the conditions, the fact that is an intermittent problem, makes it very hard to diagnose. It can happen after 3 miles or after 60. I drove it for 30 minutes and then started doing loops again through my apt complex, let the car sit for like 3 hours and still couldn't make it die on me. I got a hair dryer and tried to heat up the sensor while the car was still running and still it wouldn't die. I really appreciate all your knowledge and patience with this matter, I bet you have helped a lot of people here, but in this case I think my beetle is possessed LOL... :laugh: Besides that I dont know what else to do, I am thinking on selling it and letting somebody else figure it out, it has taken so much time and money...it is very frustrating. Thanks again.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Knowing, when to stop and give up on a auto repair, can be a tough one. :banghead: As I see it, you still have some hope; (I assume), a warranty on the crank position sensor and then, there is the ecu diagnosis, which it sounds, it NOT resolving the crank sensor error code. If you decided to double check things; would test the wiring from the sensor plug to the ecu, following the factory service manual and possibly, pull the "new" sensor, try testing it, off the car (comparing the old one and replacement). If you find the new one is defective; I would assume, you could get a new one under warranty. I would also, check for any damage; to the wiring and plug, to the sensor itself. One thing is for sure; the error code and problem, seem consistant, so something is definitely not being addressed and the problem is persistant, all this time.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> Knowing, when to stop and give up on a auto repair, can be a tough one. <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Banghead" class="inlineimg" /> As I see it, you still have some hope; (I assume), a warranty on the crank position sensor and then, there is the ecu diagnosis, which it sounds, it NOT resolving the crank sensor error code. If you decided to double check things; would test the wiring from the sensor plug to the ecu, following the factory service manual and possibly, pull the "new" sensor, try testing it, off the car (comparing the old one and replacement). If you find the new one is defective; I would assume, you could get a new one under warranty. I would also, check for any damage; to the wiring and plug, to the sensor itself. One thing is for sure; the error code and problem, seem consistant, so something is definitely not being addressed and the problem is persistant, all this time.


Hey Billy, the mechanic inside of me doesnt want to give up yet...so question...What if...i get an new crankshaft sensor plug and I connect the positive to the battery the negative to the battery and the signal directly into the ECU...is just an idea...but maybe a good one...let me know what u think...and thanks again for everything...


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

So, are you saying; that you want to bypass the existing wiring to and from the ecu? :screwy: Have you tried the testing procedures in the service manual? Testing the wiring and viewing live data; would be helpful but replacing the plug and sensor, could be something to try as well?


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> So, are you saying; that you want to bypass the existing wiring to and from the ecu? <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/screwy.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Screwy" class="inlineimg" /> Have you tried the testing procedures in the service manual? Testing the wiring and viewing live data; would be helpful but replacing the plug and sensor, could be something to try as well?


Yeah I wanna bypass the original harness, I have not been able to replicate the problem, but I dont trust the car to use it enough so it happens. Without the problem happening the cables are fine...I cant test the harness without the problem


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

So, no more dying at the moment; however, you still have the same trouble codes? Making some changes (sensor, plugs, wiring, etc), would seem to be the next step and then, seeing if the changes make a difference.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

billymade said:


> So, no more dying at the moment; however, you still have the same trouble codes? Making some changes (sensor, plugs, wiring, etc), would seem to be the next step and then, seeing if the changes make a difference.


No dying,I left the car on idle yesterday for 7 hours and then drove it around for 10 miles in my apartment building. Live Data said the car never went above 95 degrees C. G28 was working fine and no codes. I am thinking that a wire gets overheated sometimes and that is what gives the code. But I need to know which one is the pin in the ECU, and where can I tap 6.0v from the car for the power to the sensor. Do you have a wiring diagram to the ECU?


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Here is the area for ecu in the service manual; hopefully, you can drill down and find what you are looking for: 

https://workshop-manuals.com/volksw...ntrols__avoiding_unnecessary_ecm_replacement/


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Thank you, I saw that the plug requires 4v to 6v do you know where I can get that kind of current from?


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

No, i don't, are you going to de-pin or tap into the correct ecu pin at the plug/connector and run a new wire, to the engine speed sensor? You can get repair wires with the correct terminal ends already crimped on and a new plug housing to the crank sensor; from your local vw dealer (parts dept.).

Lately, we are seeing intermittent connectivity issues, on various sensors, parts; they end up being, terminal ends and plugs that are damaged. Over the years, the terminal ends, can lose tension or if someone, was trying to test the wire and pushed a multimeter probe, into it, it can spread the terminal end (back probe recommended). Replacement with correct parts, has been a solid fix; if that was the problem, these are not terribly expensive and is definitely worth trying. I have also found the source of connection issues, by using the "wiggle test", moving wires, plugs to things; as I was observing live data on a scan tool and found, a data signal dropping out, as I moved the plugs/wires. This was a definitive proof, diagnosing the problem and in once case, the ecu connector, was full of green oxidation, from a water ingress issue. Pulling the connector at the ecu and the crank sensor; getting a magnifying glass and looking for damage, is one way to see; if things have been damaged in some way. Look for terminal ends that are loose in the socket, terminal spread open, which should be tight, melted plugs, melted wires, green oxidation, etc. Replacing the terminal ends and the plug at the crank sensor; would seem like a good idea and worth a shot. You could try those repairs first and see if that is a fix; then, if (NOT), then go forward with running a new wire the full length of the harness from the ecu pin to the crank sensor (you would replace the terminal ends anyway).


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

You might check out this vw self study program; for harness repair info: 

https://www.google.com/search?clien...2......0....1.........30i10j33i10.mUSv7i4LdQI

Some videos, on harness repair and plug removal: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrs8-KtJGus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErYceipBCS8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJpgr58tqjc


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks Billy as always, I will follow your advice, I will do the plug first before the full lenght, I will let you know once I do it. Thanks again!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

I can't make any guarantees but worth a shot; replacing terminals and plugs, will be need to be done, if you end up doing full length harness repair, anyway. I hope, those repairs; bring some positive results!


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey Billy, I got a question, I bought the Bentley service manual. In there I found the wiring diagram to G28 (crankshaft sensor).

G28 sensor has 3 cables, one to ground, one to pin 82/121 and one to pin 90/121. 

I tried moving the connector and didn't do anything, car didn't stall or hesitated. I want to go ahead and change the connector and 
get new wires directly to ground and to pins 82 and 90. there are a couple of things I need:

Connector for crankshaft sensor, I think is 1J0973723G but I am not sure.
I also need 2 cable connector terminals to replace the ones on the 121 pin 
harness that connects directly to the ECM. I do not know what kind of 
connectors they are, maybe you could help me out.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

I have had to replace a number of terminal ends and connectors on my new beetle and other VW', Audi's i have worked on over the years. 

As noted, if you look at the connector with a magnifying glass; there is typically a vw part # on the plug/housing itself. So, once you identity it, you can order it online with a pigtail already on it; from ebay or amazon. Downside of these, is they are typically generic Chinese knockoffs; which are of lesser quality and many times, vw will use gold plated terminals for special and important sensors so worth it, getting them from VW. 

There are vw dealers that sell parts online but the savings may not be that much, once you pay for shipping. 

In my case, i went to my local vw dealer with my vin #; they were able to get me the correct repair wires with already crimped on terminal ends and the plug/housings i needed. 

For the butt end connectors, to add on the terminal wires; i followed vw's recommendations and used heat-shrink adhesive lined schotchlok butt connectors by 3M. These are high quality, when shrunk from heat (i use a heat gun); adhesive oozes out of the ends and seals out the environment, eliminating typical corrosion problems. Most auto parts stores, should have equivalent or order them online from places like Amazon. 

3M Scotchlok Butt Connector, Heat Shrink Seamles

https://www.google.com/search?clien...3.0.0..12942...0.2..0.0.0.......0.JHf1ldj5rTY

As noted before, you can de-pin the terminal ends or if replacing the plug, clip the old one off, remove the seals, transfer to the new wires, push into the new plug (crank sensor plug); there are special tools sold online or you can make your own.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Looks like your plug is a good part number with three pin connections: 

https://www.google.com/search?q=1J0973723G&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Here is a example of what you would get from VW: yellow repair wires with crimped terminal ends, wire seals and replacement plug/housing (you would just need butt connectors; to finish the repair):

https://www.ebay.com/i/172762380557...MIwPT2t9u05wIVth6tBh1eXAJREAQYGyABEgITC_D_BwE


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Ill go to the dealer to see if I can get one then, Ive seen the china knockoffs but they are cheap and take to long to get here.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Ill keep you updated, Thanks again Billy!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

No problem! Most vw dealers, can now get parts next day; if you order parts before 12 noon. Lets hope, this helps your problems (fingers crossed) and finally fixes things!


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Hey Billy, I went to the dealer, They confirmed the connector number is: 1J0 973 723 G, they want to charge me $19 per wire with gold terminals. The problem
is that I dont know what is the gauge of the wire, and does it matter? They will have the connector and the cables in 2 to 3 days after I know the gauge I want...


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

I took sample wires down with me; they were able to match things up, it has been awhile, so i cannot remember if they matched the wires i needed by vin or visually. Pretty sure, they matched them by my vin; using vw catalog called elsa or etka. Maybe the wires on the ebay ad for the genuine vw parts could help? Unfortunately, the ebay ad is from eastern Europe (Riga, Latvia). I actually, ordered some parts from them and was surprised, how fast it showed up. So, thats another option @ $10 with free shipping; if you are not in a hurry.

There are many other vendors, selling the plug/pigtail ready to go and supplied from the usa, some say made in usa, the quality is unknown. I guess, you need to make the call; on what you want to use, the cost and how fast you want the needed parts. 

https://www.google.com/search?clien...78.2-5......0....1.........33i299.N10dGQi-kL4


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Thanks Billy the part number has to have the letter G at the end. The difference is in the flat part the one with the G at the end has a notch on the side. I would like to get it as soon as possible but at the same time I would prefer the gold terminals, they are gold for a reason, that sensor sees temperatures that are really high. So I am going to see what is the gauge on the ones in the ECU and try to order them tomorrow. Ill let you know what I find. Thanks Billy


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Yeah, i was having a intermittent electrical problem with my immobilizer, causing a random no start issue and so, decided, to get genuine vw parts, to get the highest quality parts to (hopefully) fix my problem. Best not to skimp on inferior aftermarket electrical parts; especially some as crucial as a crank sensor. It ended up being a combination of loose terminals, plugs and a bad speedo cluster. 

Let us know; how things go, thanks!


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

Found the wire gauge in the wiring diagram, the wire cross section is .35mm^2. I am heading to the dealer now.


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

I am at the dealer and the guys here are going out of their minds lol they dont have an option in the system from .35mm^2. Lets see what they come up with...


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Hmmm, my dealer; used my VIN #, was able to figure it out. There was some confusion; on some wires but eventually, got what I needed. I guess, worst case scenario; clip the plug/wires and take them down there with you, have them match 'em up!


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## victorusmc (Sep 4, 2019)

So they gave me a sample of the smallest cable they had and is a little bit thicker than the one the car has but there wasnt a smaller option, maybe since the wiring diagram was made, vw made a revision on the thickness of the wires. The connector and the cables where $51. Next step is tomorrow check which pins in the ecm harness correspond to the sensor.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

UPDATE: looks like victor, found some problems with the plug at the crank sensor:










A bunch of black tape; a sure sign, someone has been messing with things and "been in there". 











Turns out he found the ground wire was just taped up; raw wire twisted together with (OUT) a appropriate butt connector crimped, to create a secure connection.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

New plug, terminal ends and wire seals.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Repair wires, connected with insulated, heat shrink butt connectors.

Victor, has reported back: the plug has fixed the crank sensor trouble code but the car is still dying, when test driven. When, not starting, there us no spark; coil pack and wiring testing is next.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

UPDATE: Vic, replaced the coil pack with a Nippon Denso brand part and added a new ground wire, as per the vw service bulletin. This seems to have fixed the problem and he is driving the car with no issues. WHEW! This was a long diagnostic thread but he didn't give up and FINALLY got it fixed! eace::wave: _After almost 5 months of working through things on this thread: Persistence pays off! :wave:_


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

UPDATE: turns out the old coil had been replaced before; a Huco brand coil pack, made in India. I'm not terribly familiar with the quality of the brand but this one failed.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Online, Huco seems to be aftermarket, not oem quality and reviews on amazon, say they seem to only last a year or so! So, it sounds like they are failure prone, poor quality parts; so, avoid buying these coil packs. 

https://www.amazon.com/Huco-W0133-1602177-HUC-Ignition-Coil/dp/B001FRSO5U


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## BobD926 (Aug 18, 2017)

Haven't checked on this thread in a while, and after doing so just now, have to chime in to say what an awesome thread it is. 

It was awesome for the OP, who after months of sweat and ?*#@!&! and dollars finally got his car running again thanks to advice from a knowledgable forum member. 

It was also awesome, though, for people like me who were following along from the sidelines. It contained lots of great info on the specific problem, but is also a good lesson in troubleshooting steps, patience and parts advice. 

So FWIW, thank you @victorusmc for following through and posting until the end (I hate finding a thread that might help me, then seeing it stop suddenly, leaving everybody with no idea whether the advice given so far ended up working) and @billymade for sharing knowledge helpul to anybody. :wave: eace:


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Diagnosis, is always a challenge; unfortunately, this scenario suffered from classic issues with Volkswagens. VW dealerships, tend to not have strong diagnostic capability and condemning the ecu, early on and no checking the wiring, is definitely not solid diagnostics steps. It would have been interesting, if they did replace the ecu; would they have found the bad wiring and bad coil pack? 

The diagnosis, suffered from classic issues we see; over, over again, for some reason, when people "attempt" to repair Volkswagens. 

1. bad wiring "repairs": for some reason, people do, substandard attempts to "fix" things and in this case, didn't even, put a butt connector to repair the wiring harness but twisted it together, put electrical tape on it (called it good). I keep seeing this on repairs I have had to do on a number of VW's over the years; people, do not follow normal repair procedures, hack things and this causes, problems with basic function of the vehicle. It seems, wherever, I see electrical tape: wrapped around a harness, that has obviously been added (non stock); it typically, is the source of the problem, correct repair procedures, techniques are not followed and the "repair", is causing the current problem. 

2. inferior, non oem parts installed: many people, will throw parts at a problem, in an attempt to fix something; then, to add insult to injury, buy a cheap aftermarket part, which is failure prone and this, makes it even harder, to diagnose things. Many, assume, a "new part", elminates the need to troubleshoot thing and think, replacing a part is a "fix", while, figuring the new part is "good". 

The OP, really hung in there and saw this repair through, to the end! I'm glad he did, turns out he is a experienced military trained aerospace tech and that helped, as well. Not giving up and moving forward; making changes, testing, inspecting visually and a process of elimination, typically finds the problem!


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## paredown (Oct 5, 2005)

Takes two, BillyMade--that's a lot of kindness on your part from a forum member to keep with it and help him through the diagnostic process.

I too despair when I see what passes for repairs...


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