# lets talk DIY tuning! who's tuning their own cars??



## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

just wanna see if anyone else on here is tryin this out. 

im just getting into it, but its slow moving with the crazy "spring" weather here.(snow today, wtf?) 

interested in what your kfmirl and kfmiop are, and how you got there.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

You need a Maestro Cable+Software, I believe that's running around $800 at the moment. 

Unless you are going BT the off the shelf tunes from APR/REVO/UNI/etc are very good.


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

i already have PC software and an interface. its not maetsro. and it DIDN'T cost me $800. 
more like $120. 

i know some people here tune their own cars the way i do...


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## rlab (Nov 5, 2012)

majorahole said:


> i already have PC software and an interface. its not maetsro. and it DIDN'T cost me $800.
> more like $120.


 Do tell.


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

the software _I_ use, is WinOls. others edit in Tunerpro. 

for interface i have 2. 
first is the BDM-100, for getting a full ecu backup in case of a bad flash, or if i need to go back to the dealer. this requires opening the ECU and reading straight from the diagnostic "port" on the pcb. (i say "port" because its really solder pads on the board) 

second is an MPPS v12 cable. this flashes over the OBD2 port.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

One does not simply walk into Bosch Me9.1


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

LOL 

meD9.1 

its not very far off of me7.x


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## rlab (Nov 5, 2012)

majorahole said:


> it DIDN'T cost me $800. more like *$120.*





majorahole said:


> the software _I_ use, is *WinOls*.


 Since when is WinOLS under $1000.


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

come on now, its the internet.... i "found" it.... get it?? 

tip: digital-kaos forums


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

GTI2Slow said:


> One does not simply walk into Bosch Me9.1


 

HAHahhahaha yes thank you


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

maybe i didn't make myself clear enough. 

IM ALREADY TUNING MY CAR THIS WAY. I'VE FLASHED NEW BINS, IT WORKS. 

im looking for anyone else that has too. not your opinion on whether or not i _should_, because that ship has sailed, and i haven't blown up my engine or anything! OMFG!! I KNOW!! IMPOSSIBLE!!  

so unless you know something save your opinions


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majorahole said:


> maybe i didn't make myself clear enough.
> 
> IM ALREADY TUNING MY CAR THIS WAY. I'VE FLASHED NEW BINS, IT WORKS.
> 
> ...


 

I don't see any posts telling you not to do it. So chill out, bro.


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

really?? that wasn't the implication?


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

The only people I have seen on here doing there own thing are Rarak69 & CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

ya, those were the ones i was talking about. 

was hoping others were too, just not posting about if for some reason. 
rarak has been quite helpful, but i notice neither posts anything about it... 

well i guess ill just make an xdf and give it out for free


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

They have a business, so I doubt they will talk too much about it. 

I want to pick up a second ecu and the tools to play.


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

im willing to help as much as i can. 
im not on their level thats for sure, but im surprised at the small amount of people who do this. 
ive had nice gains from only changing a few maps so far. 

its not hard, just tedious. 

i got my bdm from amazon, and my mpps v12 from ebay. both chinese copys of the originals, or "clone tools" as the pros call them. 

guess im just trying to spread the good word that it can be done. and for not much money


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majorahole said:


> really?? that wasn't the implication?


 I think it was just a joke talking about how difficult it is. 

I think it's great you're trying it, dead serious.


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

My advice is to keep it simple. Play with the maps all you want but just keep it functioning like stock ecu. I guess what im trying to say is dont go nuts and start disabling and tying to make it like an aftermarket ecu. 

Ive been and still am stuck trying to get my standalone ecu up and running. Its a total pita to start from scratch on a direct injection motor. There are so many variables and only a handful of people even know how to tune a direct injection motor from scratch. The quotes ive gotten have been in the 10k+ range just to tune it. :banghead:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

IMAN973 said:


> My advice is to keep it simple. Play with the maps all you want but just keep it functioning like stock ecu. I guess what im trying to say is dont go nuts and start disabling and tying to make it like an aftermarket ecu.
> 
> Ive been and still am stuck trying to get my standalone ecu up and running. Its a total pita to start from scratch on a direct injection motor. There are so many variables and only a handful of people even know how to tune a direct injection motor from scratch. The quotes ive gotten have been in the 10k+ range just to tune it. :banghead:


 
Ouch. At that price, I would be buying a used M3. =)


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

Think Underground Racing TT R8s


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

If you don't have a lot of experience with these motors or even understand how to tune, I would not do this. Company's like Unitronic, APR, etc have spent countless hours on perfecting tunes. I would understand if you have a custom BT setup.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

majorahole said:


> just wanna see if anyone else on here is tryin this out.
> 
> im just getting into it, but its slow moving with the crazy "spring" weather here.(snow today, wtf?)
> 
> interested in what your kfmirl and kfmiop are, and how you got there.


I recognize you from another forum, lol. 

Anyways on nefmoto there is an ME7 Tuner Wizard that might be of some use. Basically a Excel macro, nothing special

I use Maestro simply because the definition files for an AWW dont exist, it was a one year ecu. I have some good info as well in regards to the torque control and how to tune it. I think a lot of the same basic tuning concepts for ME7 can be applied to MED9 as well


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

IMAN973 said:


> My advice is to keep it simple. Play with the maps all you want but just keep it functioning like stock ecu. I guess what im trying to say is dont go nuts and start disabling and tying to make it like an aftermarket ecu.
> 
> Ive been and still am stuck trying to get my standalone ecu up and running. Its a total pita to start from scratch on a direct injection motor. There are so many variables and only a handful of people even know how to tune a direct injection motor from scratch. The quotes ive gotten have been in the 10k+ range just to tune it. :banghead:


with what people have doe with the stock ECU's i don't see the need for an aftermarket standalone.
but im sure my goals aren't the same as yours


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> If you don't have a lot of experience with these motors or even understand how to tune, I would not do this. Company's like Unitronic, APR, etc have spent countless hours on perfecting tunes. I would understand if you have a custom BT setup.


i understand tuning and these engines. i have prior experience, just not on Bosch software. 
i built a turbo kit for my obd1 honda a few years back. 
"built" as in made my manifold, made my chargepiping, drilled and welded return bung on my oil pan for turbo oil line return, ect. i also did all of my own tuning on that car. i didn't try to squeeze every last bit of power out of it, but it ran well for years, and still got great mpg(around 33) if i drove it nicely. i had an lc-1 for a/f and soldered the usb header to ecu for logging. 

so i know about tuning, but this is a whole different game. the basics are all the same, but how to get the end result is way different.

APR, GIAC, EURO all make good products, but its not hard to make a file that will be better for your car and your location. 

and these ecu's are incredibly safe. there are a ton if safeguards in place that would need to be disabled to really damage an engine, which i could disable for more power, but im not to that point yet(im still stock exhaust) even then they wont be fully disabled, just modified a lil bit


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

Dave926 said:


> I recognize you from another forum, lol.
> 
> Anyways on nefmoto there is an ME7 Tuner Wizard that might be of some use. Basically a Excel macro, nothing special
> 
> I use Maestro simply because the definition files for an AWW dont exist, it was a one year ecu. I have some good info as well in regards to the torque control and how to tune it. I think a lot of the same basic tuning concepts for ME7 can be applied to MED9 as well


what forum is that??

i tried that tuner wizard first for KFMIRL, and it made wasn't very smooth/drivable. and after using the "italian tune" technique for KFMIRL, i used it to make my KFMIOP map, but logs showed it pulled timing. but that coukld have been a few other factors now that i think of it cuz im probably running more boost then i should be with stock downpipe, and stock BTS settings


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## ColoradoMkV (Jan 4, 2012)

I thought Meastro tuning was mildly overwhelming. This sounds like a nightmare.


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

sooo, there is a complete a2l file floating around for an 06-08 gti?


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

mrbikle said:


> sooo, there is a complete a2l file floating around for an 06-08 gti?


is there??? all i knew about was an a4 a2l??


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

majorahole said:


> what forum is that??
> 
> i tried that tuner wizard first for KFMIRL, and it made wasn't very smooth/drivable. and after using the "italian tune" technique for KFMIRL, i used it to make my KFMIOP map, but logs showed it pulled timing. but that coukld have been a few other factors now that i think of it cuz im probably running more boost then i should be with stock downpipe, and stock BTS settings


me7 AND ME9 are deffinitely similar... Although the timing tables are a bit more involed(less straight forward). Either way you will find more info on Nefmoto then you will in these forums which is sad but its the truth. I do not see alot of traffic in this forum on the topic. The info's out there it just takes a dedication, time and willingness to experiment/learn. 2.0 users have got to step it up :laugh:.


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> me7 AND ME9 are deffinitely similar... Although the timing tables are a bit more involed(less straight forward). Either way you will find more info on Nefmoto then you will in these forums which is sad but its the truth. I do not see alot of traffic in this forum on the topic. The info's out there it just takes a dedication, time and willingness to experiment/learn. 2.0 users have got to step it up :laugh:.


ya i know nef is where the info is, but they are still kinda tough to get to spill about the med9. i was hopeing maybe there was someone who maybe didn't post much about it, but still had knowledge, might chime in with some good info.


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Did you download the KFMIOP and IRL calculator? Its posted on the site and gives you a good starting point for your tune. Based on turbo size/intended boost/file aggressiveness. :thumbup: Are you running into torque intervention?


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

Budsdubbin said:


> Did you download the KFMIOP and IRL calculator? Its posted on the site and gives you a good starting point for your tune. Based on turbo size/intended boost/file aggressiveness. :thumbup: Are you running into torque intervention?


i used the tuner wizard version, because it works on openoffice, i tried the other, but it wouldnt work. and i dont have excel.

i dont _think_ im getting torque intervention... i had a log the other day with up to -6 deg of timing pull, that was with IOP adjusted. then yesterday i took a bunch yesterday, with stock IOP, and got one point of -3.2 on cyl 1 & 4, and that was it. i need to start adjusting lamda too, as BTS is affecting load request in the higher RPM, but i may just wait for a downpipe, before i do that. its running really well with standard IOP and modded IRL and LDRXN/ZK, just on my long logging pulls it really dumps fuel and ive logged as rich as .68 lamda (9.99:1 afr) which is kinda rich


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Great, you went on nefmoto figured out how to gank winols and read a lil so you think you can tune? GTFO, the me7 shiz isn't as 'easy' as all the med9 business. GL figuring it out, I know I wouldn't be posting this information publicly if I was a tuner, why would I want to undercut myself, just think about it. :laugh:


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

18T_BT said:


> Great, you went on nefmoto figured out how to gank winols and read a lil so you think you can tune? GTFO, the me7 shiz isn't as 'easy' as all the med9 business. GL figuring it out, I know I wouldn't be posting this information publicly if I was a tuner, why would I want to undercut myself, just think about it. :laugh:


CSB....


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

18T_BT said:


> Great, you went on nefmoto figured out how to gank winols and read a lil so you think you can tune? GTFO, the me7 shiz isn't as 'easy' as all the med9 business. GL figuring it out, I know I wouldn't be posting this information publicly if I was a tuner, why would I want to undercut myself, just think about it. :laugh:


The info posted isn't exactly the secret to tuning Med9 :laugh:. Which is the source problem with this and the me7 community being so behind other aftermarket scenes. Lack of knowledge and willingness to contribute... Even if those who have the experience and knowledge to tune med9/me7 spilled out every bit of info they acquired. It still takes experience/basic understanding of tuning methods which is what separates the pros from the boy scouts.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Tuning isnt for anyone, or everyone. Its for people who know what they are doing and spend a lot of money to get the info required, rather than misinformation tossed around on the internets


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

i wasn't claiming to be a master tuning wizard or anything, just wanted to see if anyone else was in the same boat. 

rarak69 is one of the few who have been willing to help a me figure this ish out. 
it has been quite a learning experience. every time i think ive got the hang of how to manipulate the ecu, i learn something new and have to go back a step or two!! 
but i dont mind learning the hard way, im just surprised there arent more people like myself trying to figure this out.(i can understand why not tho)


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

majorahole said:


> i wasn't claiming to be a master tuning wizard or anything, just wanted to see if anyone else was in the same boat.
> 
> rarak69 is one of the few who have been willing to help a me figure this ish out.
> it has been quite a learning experience. every time i think ive got the hang of how to manipulate the ecu, i learn something new and have to go back a step or two!!
> but i dont mind learning the hard way, im just surprised there arent more people like myself trying to figure this out.(i can understand why not tho)



The major reasons are:
1. Most tuners have paid a great deal for the information(fdef, a2l, etc)
2. Its the business and profits for individuals
3. Very specific hardware required(tuning hardware)
4. Cost of equipment and softwares(flash tools, bdm tools, winols, checksum plugins, etc)

Honestly, i have been tuning for 6 years, and have spend much more than the cost of a brand new VW on the above.

I dont mind hinting and sharing a bit, but on the other hand, im not interested in giving information away for free that costs me a lot of money or time to find the solution.

People do all they can to keep things a secret simply because of these reasons, mostly the money and individual investment into things....In 5 years ill gladly give up tons of info because its an old platform with low profits like the me7 cars.


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## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

Add the cost of testing (dyno useage). Exmaple: Working just on cam phasing, I have spent 2-3 hours on a dyno. Where I am from its usually 150-200 bucks an hour for dyno time. I'm just not going to give out what I learned from that.


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## majorahole (Sep 17, 2009)

ok, well i assume some use maestro? that's diy. 

i didn't think everyone who tuned their own cars had a tuning business, i know im not trying to start a business with it, just an enthusiast who doesn't mind the days and days of research.


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## rlab (Nov 5, 2012)

Here you go.... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6008548-Golf-R-Chronicles-of-self-tuning-and-tweaking


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

majorahole said:


> ok, well i assume some use maestro? that's diy.


There are several B7 A4s on Audizine running Maestro, pop over there and look for a few of the build threads, i'll try to link some if I happen to come across them in the next little while.

I think in their cases they've been provided a "base tune" from RAI for what they have and have been tuning from there.


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

Tmsracing37 said:


> Add the cost of testing (dyno useage). Exmaple: Working just on cam phasing, I have spent 2-3 hours on a dyno. Where I am from its usually 150-200 bucks an hour for dyno time. I'm just not going to give out what I learned from that.


And that EXACTLY why this scene sucks. Every pm i get i ALWAYS answer the questions requardless if it took me $4k and years to figure it out. Info is info, hell i couldnt find a med9 ecu pinout after contacting some BIG companies. A freaking pinout come on man and no one "had" it bs. 

I feel its not just the money but its a dcik measuring contest to see who can figure out what, and before whom, to prove their better and/or faster. Hell Id tell ANYONE right now how to build a 1000whp fsi if i felt they could actually do it and not waste my time trying to explain it. Most dont want real hp but none the less just because i dont have the time or money to finish building mine atm, doesnt mean i have an ego and dont want to see others succeed. Its the ones who have the attitude that they know something or have "connections" that make me say good luck. :heart:


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

1k HP? Nos yo.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

Good luck


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

Publicly post how to make a1k HP FSI utilizing direct injection without making it in to a 1.8t. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

Do you really think the top level people in the Honda and domestic crowd spill the beans on how they are building and tuning? Maybe Chris Miller will start hosting diy seminars.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

IMAN973 said:


> And that EXACTLY why this scene sucks. Every pm i get i ALWAYS answer the questions requardless if it took me $4k and years to figure it out. Info is info, hell i couldnt find a med9 ecu pinout after contacting some BIG companies. A freaking pinout come on man and no one "had" it bs.
> 
> I feel its not just the money but its a dcik measuring contest to see who can figure out what, and before whom, to prove their better and/or faster. Hell Id tell ANYONE right now how to build a 1000whp fsi if i felt they could actually do it and not waste my time trying to explain it. Most dont want real hp but none the less just because i dont have the time or money to finish building mine atm, doesnt mean i have an ego and dont want to see others succeed. Its the ones who have the attitude that they know something or have "connections" that make me say good luck. :heart:


Sorry you feel that way. 

you what is funny, This is about 5th time this year, I heard similar quote from some others

"O, you may have built and tuned for XXX HP, but I have built and tuned for XXXX HP"


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

Tmsracing37 said:


> Sorry you feel that way.


Im not saying your wrong, I completely understand, but this is why no one is making "high" hp. I guarantee if everyone spoke to each other not hiding "custom" injectors or a "custom" lpfps then the scene as a whole would grow.


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

mrbikle said:


> Do you really think the top level people in the Honda and domestic crowd spill the beans on how they are building and tuning? Maybe Chris Miller will start hosting diy seminars.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


ACTUALLY they do... ever heard of EFI University?


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## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

I will tell you this as soon as Matt and I get set injectors that will work well and we are happy with, We will release it to public. Hell I even give out the injector constant and other tables like injector corrections table if someoone needs a starting point.


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

Let me back track for a second. I never meant to diminish what you guys are doing. All im saying is that a secretive attitude, is why this thread is even here. All this stuff should have been public knowledge years ago. 

On the other hand, I have signed NDA's for a few companies so i am limited, at times, to what i can say but if theres something i can say to help someone i will and have. I want people to succeed with this engine because it keeps companies developing new products for us.


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