# MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

MK4/MKIV 2.0L AEG/AZG + 16v head swap
This is a budget build... $35 for 16v head, $50 for pistons/rods, etc
work in progress. I'm lacking some aluminum welding of a TB relocation bend.
t-belt -> 2004 LEXUS GS300 L6 3.0 Liter FI
head bolts -> 91290A560 -> http://www.mcmaster.com (Issam Abed now offers ARP studs for this application.)
I swapped 9A pistons and rods into a AZG/BEV block. The pistions had to be machined a bit to clear the oil squiters. 
AZG - modified 9A - stock 9A

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










1.8T hybrid steel bottom oil pan... you never know when you might need an oil return line
















AZG/BEV bottom end assembled with 16v 9A rods and pistons. I reused the mk4 rod bearings and piston rings.:
















now some attention to the center of the swap, the 16v head:








new stem seals, fine sanded all bearing and lifter surfaces and cleaned all gasket surfaces.
















Clean carbon off valves:

























head's assembled and time for mockups:








































need to relocate TB:

























MK4 coolant flange -> 16v head adapter:

















I'll be fitting a 20v CPS hall senosr wheel onto the 16v dizzy and use the dizzy as the CPS:
























Using an earlier AEG downpipe to mate with 16v exhaust mani. Having O2 bung welded on:








Thanks,
Rey



_Modified by elRey at 11:39 AM 7-21-2009_


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

thats a unique idea
good luck!


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (71DubBugBug)*










































8v out.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (elRey)*

tranny separated and old 8v up on stand:








front end swung open leaving A/C lines connected, waiting for 16v:









































older brother watching, remembering it's awkward swap (mk4 2.0L AZG + turbo from 1.8t):








a little fancy hoist driving and 16v is docked:
















exhaust connected, coolant hoses, wiring, accesories on:

















_Modified by elRey at 1:55 AM 9-8-2008_


_Modified by elRey at 2:06 AM 9-8-2008_


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## djpj06 (Jul 12, 2005)

*FV-QR*

COOL!


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (elRey)*

man rey, i thought i had the hybrid edge...u have a double-edged sword!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i have transmission ideas for adjusting shift points







u make me wanna keep mine


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## fastgermancar (May 4, 2005)

niice


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## Veedubgti (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (elRey)*

Watching!


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## microzimmer (Dec 19, 2005)

in for the watch


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (elRey)*

started it up tonight.
first I pulled the fuel pump and injector fuse and I disconnected the coil pack and ran the starter for a minute to get the fresh oil circulating.
I then replace the fuel pump fuse and cycled the ign a few times to look for any fuel leaks.
Then I replaced the injector fuse and reconnected the coil pack.
It fired right up. Though, with a major exhaust leak that I knew about and #4 cyl misfiring. I only let it idle for a minute.
The exhaust leak is from a threaded hole in the mani I have yet to find a bolt to plug it. The misfire... I don't know yet. I have to address the pancaking silicone bend after the TB before I start it up again.








































.
.
.
still have to:
1) torque the drive shaft flanges
2) find/fab a dizzy cover
3) figure out intake
4) lengthen MAF wires
5) address silicone after TB
6) find bolt to plug hole in exhaust mani
7) address #4 cyl misfire (God willing, this will go away)



_Modified by elRey at 12:44 AM 9-10-2008_


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## rychas1 (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*

awesome job rey. just awesome. we should meet up for a auto 16v ride http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (rychas1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rychas1* »_awesome job rey. just awesome. we should meet up for a auto 16v ride http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks man. Let me make sure it'll stay together, but after that, sure! But I would never expect it to keep up with yours.


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## gobaroonie20 (May 26, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*

From the noob corner...inspired http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , you have laid the blue prints for my winter project. I am painting my chariot now and the engine is next. What's the biggest hurdle you have had to overcome so far in this project?
I'll be watching..


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*FV-QR*

Subscibed for a super sweet build. This should have been the base engine in the MkIV!


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (The Kilted Yaksman)*

It been running for 600 miles now:


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## microzimmer (Dec 19, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_










very clean


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## 2doorV6 (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (elRey)*

cool swap http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 71sbeetle (Apr 12, 2002)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (2doorV6)*

so, what are the difference in feel from the 8V to the 16V ? noticeable ? gas mileage ?


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## IFlyGTI (Feb 26, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_

















You are my new hero. I was curious about what other people are watching and stumbled across this thread. I honestly had to dig through my ETKA to make sure they didn't actually offer this combo somewhere (besides here). Looks pretty factory to me & for that, I grant you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and a







.


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## CodeMan (May 12, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (microzimmer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *microzimmer* »_
very clean









Agreed. It looks so _right_.


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## gogogadget (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (CodeMan)*

bump for hp gains, differences before and after, woudl love to do this to my mkiv over winter


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## randallhb (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (71sbeetle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *71sbeetle* »_so, what are the difference in feel from the 8V to the 16V ? noticeable ? gas mileage ?

Yes, to the OP please tell us about gains, feel, how it drives, etc.


_Modified by randallhb at 8:23 PM 9-28-2008_


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## sickmind (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

I was just wondering what plug wires you used and how you went about setting up the dizzy as the CPS ,


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## 16VTrash (Feb 14, 2008)

gotta see


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (sickmind)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sickmind* »_I was just wondering what plug wires you used and how you went about setting up the dizzy as the CPS , 

Wondering the same thing myself. SICK build man, congrats. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

x2 also did you have to change the intermediate shaft gears and what not like the aba guys? or is this entire motor mk4 minus head pistons rods and timming belt?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_or is this entire motor mk4 minus head pistons rods and timming belt?

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
excatly


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

wtf ?! how! seriously the aba guys say it CANT be done without switching those other things... also how did you tackle the CPS man?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

CPS is in the thread....
stock 16v distributor + 20v trigger wheel
I cut/grind the 16v trigger wheel down just enough to slide the 20v wheel over it, then tack welded it.

_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_I'll be fitting a 20v CPS hall senosr wheel onto the 16v dizzy and use the dizzy as the CPS:


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

elray i love you, why wont you answer my pm's







haha for a turbo setup would you recommend the 9a pistons or can i use my brand new aeg pistons i bought and just notch them?


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

oh also what did you use for head bolts?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_oh also what did you use for head bolts?

91290A560 -> http://www.mcmaster.com


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

what about using arp head studs. would i use the 16v ones or 8v ones?


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

sorry i know i must sound like a lil girl. im just excited, but where did you get the MK4 coolant flange -> 16v head adapter:


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

and did you use the 16v cam gear?


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

nice swap, what caused the cyl4 misfire?
I was talking about doing this swap in a mk3 to a friend last week.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_nice swap, what caused the cyl4 misfire?
I was talking about doing this swap in a mk3 to a friend last week.

loose plug wire


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## eastcobbler (Mar 23, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

amazing stuff! I wish i had your levels of motivation & creativity!


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## PantyBeef (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

What did you have to do to the ECU, if anything? Looks SWEET man!


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (PantyBeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PantyBeef* »_What did you have to do to the ECU, if anything? Looks SWEET man!

Nothing at all and thanks.


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

how much for that coolant flange adapter


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

coolant flange adpater was design and CAD drawn by me. A local dubber that worked at a machine shop cut it for me as a favor. It's a one of a kind. And the guy no longer works at the maching shop (hope my favor didn't get him fired







)


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

how much you want for the CAD drawing? not interested in mass producing, just wanna cut one for myself


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## at_the_speed_of_2.l0w (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

And so, how does it drive? How does it feel? How's the gas mileage?


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

i am...... i also want elrays coolant flang







pm me issam


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## doodpod (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (at_the_speed_of_2.l0w)*


_Quote, originally posted by *at_the_speed_of_2.l0w* »_And so, how does it drive? How does it feel? How's the gas mileage? 

X2
Updates?


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## BuPsychBass (Jan 23, 2008)

*Re: (doodpod)*

wow man... nice


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## JIIP (Apr 20, 2006)

*Re: (BuPsychBass)*

info on this?


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## cis8vgti (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: (JIIP)*

Watch BUMP. 
Nice skills... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (cis8vgti)*

I just finished a 5-spd manual swap on the car. So, watch for dyno numbers in the near future.


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## paulh08 (Mar 27, 2007)

Yeah hows the engine feel now?


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## EyeDoughnutNo (Aug 28, 2008)

sweet...


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## ratdub (Jan 17, 2005)

*FV-QR*

saving this for updates...very interested...


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## VR6andCabbyMan (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re:*

Interesting swap. Looks like your total cost wouldnt have been more than a few hundred dollars if that?


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*FV-QR*

dude that's rad


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## SoLater'd (Apr 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (MFZERO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MFZERO* »_dude that's rad









This Guy said it...


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Simply AWESOME!!


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## MK2TDI (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Craige-O)*

Anything new to report on this? What did you use to cover the CPS wheel in the distributor?


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## TightDub (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (MK2TDI)*

Missed the build but this is awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## V8Star (Jun 27, 2007)

Is this smog-able? How much did the entire build cost you?
Also, if this is Smog-able in CA then you should seriously think about building kits for the mk4 16v swap. Could make a lot of money.


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## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (V8Star)*

cool swap man


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## VWproracer (Sep 30, 2005)

is that a 1.8l head? were the stock 2.0 piston too low of a CR?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (VWproracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWproracer* »_is that a 1.8l head? were the stock 2.0 piston too low of a CR?


2.0L head. But it either will work.
All CR info and valve-to-piston clearance issues can be had in the ABA16v thread -> lets get a ABA 16v Parts List/FAQ Thread going


_Modified by elRey at 4:30 PM 1-30-2009_


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## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

yes wich is why he used the 9a pistons


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## AlenGTI1.8T (Oct 12, 2005)

amazing build, and this car is not just crusin round town , saw it go from ATl to Alabama for the APR BBQ , when he opened hood lot of people were in disbelief
amazing


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (AlenGTI1.8T)*

Update:
daily driven (hard):


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## vwandabmw (Jan 5, 2007)

awesome project! I am not too familiar with the 16vmotors, but is your 16v head from a mk2, or a scirocco? I was looking into doing the 2 liter 16v motor from a passat into my golf, not sure how the power #'s would compare? 
Thanks


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (V8Star)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V8Star* »_Is this smog-able? How much did the entire build cost you?
Also, if this is Smog-able in CA then you should seriously think about building kits for the mk4 16v swap. Could make a lot of money.

head - $35
intake and exhaust manifolds - $30
pistons/rods - $50
piston modification - $62
fuel rail - ~$75
fpr adapter - $90
spark plug wires - ~$40
digi injector seats - $20
16v dizzy hall sensor - $35 (dizzy I got free)
TB abapter flanges and silicone coupler - $110
Lexus T-belt - $22
head bolts - $15
CAI - $35
K&N cone filter - $35
1.8T cam gear - $45
1.8T hall sensor wheel - $20
coolant flange adapter - free
all gaskets and misc hardware and hoses - ~$120 (<- shot in the dark guess)
I'm sure that's not everything.


_Modified by elRey at 12:44 PM 2-13-2009_


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## just-in (Jun 13, 2004)

Nice Work


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## DWP (Dec 27, 2006)

Sweet build buddy, my bro an I are looking to emulate this in his 00' Jetta sedan. Thanks for listing the basic bits n pieces.


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*FV-QR*

Right about 140hp and 150ft/lb of torks. Nice! Definitely what should have been the stock base engine.


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*FV-QR*

nice build are you still using me7 ecu??... el did you ever dyno that k03 2.0 setup?


_Modified by the_q_jet at 5:45 AM 3-5-2009_


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_nice build are you still using me7 ecu??... el did you ever dyno that k03 2.0 setup?

Yes, stock ME7*.5* management.

Wagon just passed emissions with flying colors.


_Modified by elRey at 10:10 PM 3-22-2009_


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## rtbtitans50 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: (elRey)*

nice swap


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## doodpod (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

Just curious, how did you deal with the SAI? I don't see it in any of your pics.


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## nick526 (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (V8Star)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V8Star* »_ if this is Smog-able in CA.

Nope. Won't pass visual unless the tech is very careless.


_Modified by nick526 at 1:35 AM 4-14-2009_


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (doodpod)*


_Quote, originally posted by *doodpod* »_Just curious, how did you deal with the SAI? I don't see it in any of your pics.

I never put the SAI back in. GA doesn't require visual inspection.
BUT, you could go the extra mile and use the SAI pump bracket and hoses from an 1.8T to relocate the pump down near the oil pan. Then do some custom piping to the back of the exhaust mani. The mani has a threaded port you could use. I just plug it with a bolt.


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## doodpod (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
I never put the SAI back in. GA doesn't require visual inspection.
BUT, you could go the extra mile and use the SAI pump bracket and hoses from an 1.8T to relocate the pump down near the oil pan. Then do some custom piping to the back of the exhaust mani. The mani has a threaded port you could use. I just plug it with a bolt.

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific - I figured you'd just relocated it since I couldn't see it. If you eliminated it, and are running stock management, do you have a CEL? Or do you know a trick for not tripping the CEL (resistor or otherwise?)


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (doodpod)*

No. I know there's a period of time after you clear codes and when the ECU runs the SAI diagnostic test on the SAI enough times to throw a DTC and CEL. I reset the codes and force all readiness codes except SAI. GA emissions allows for one readiness to be failed/incomplete. So, I got it tested with all but that one SAI readiness code set and before the incorrect flow DTC shows up.
CEL shows up eventually.
Why would a visual inspection fail if the SAI is present, just relocated. Do the inspectors know where the SAI pump is located for ever model and engine?


_Modified by elRey at 6:30 PM 4-16-2009_


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
Why would a visual inspection fail if the SAI is present, just relocated. Do the inspectors know where the SAI pump is located for ever model and engine?

it wouldn't, it would fail for having the wrong cylinder head in place, plus a diiferent intake, omong other things. california sucks. on second thought you probably would fail just for moving the air pump, even if you kept it.
this is what VW should have done from the factory in the mk4's, but maybe a cleaner looking intake and some work on the head. The AEG and later 2.0's are the worst engines ever, I would rather have a G60 without the charger.


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## 16vturbo gti (Dec 24, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (all-starr-me)*

wtf?







some one relised that a 16v is better then a 1.8t







nice work


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## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (16vturbo gti)*

they use a lot of 16v's in europe http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (MK1 Rabbit GTI)*

My God I love it man. I might just go this route on the wifes build.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

do you have info on those machined parts that you made?......


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (elRey)*

anyone know of any reason why this swap wouldnt work on a BEV 2L


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (duke_seb)*

I started ordering parts tonight and my wife and I began pulling out the 2.slow. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (DWP)*

Was the TB flange custom made as well?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shifty* »_Was the TB flange custom made as well?

this: http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_..._to_3
plus the TB side of this: http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...MkIII - call them, they will sell just the TB flange.
and a silicone coupler.


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
this: http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_..._to_3
plus the TB side of this: http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_...MkIII - call them, they will sell just the TB flange.
and a silicone coupler.

Thanks bro. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I called them and asked about one earlier today, they said it wasn't available.








Tonight I'm ordering my BBM parts and pulling the motor. Hopefully everything goes smoothly... just found out my machinist closed shop and moved to Utah three weeks ago so I need to find someone else I trust to do my machine work...








Edit: Just called BBM again, apparently the adapter isn't available after all. They're sold out and none are scheduled to be machined until next month at the soonest.







x2


_Modified by Shifty at 5:39 PM 5-18-2009_


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shifty* »_
Thanks bro. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I called them and asked about one earlier today, they said it wasn't available.








Tonight I'm ordering my BBM parts and pulling the motor. Hopefully everything goes smoothly... just found out my machinist closed shop and moved to Utah three weeks ago so I need to find someone else I trust to do my machine work...








Edit: Just called BBM again, apparently the adapter isn't available after all. They're sold out and none are scheduled to be machined until next month at the soonest.







x2

_Modified by Shifty at 5:39 PM 5-18-2009_

I can sell mine for what I paid. LMK.


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
I can sell mine for what I paid. LMK.

PM sent.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
I can sell mine for what I paid. LMK.

do u still have it?.... ill pay today


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## doodpod (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*

What injectors did you use?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (doodpod)*

I used BWW or BEV injectors with a 4bar fpr only because they don't need a fresh-air hose running to them.


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*

Hey elrey, I sent another PM regarding that TB adapter. Thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*

Replied http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## doodpod (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_I used BWW or BEV injectors with a 4bar fpr only because they don't need a fresh-air hose running to them. 

Any chance it might make more power with a dual-spray cone injector? The smallest ones on USRT's website are 315cc units; dunno if that'd be too much for the stock management to compensate for. Maybe stock 1.8t units would work?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (doodpod)*

incase anyone is looking for specs on that coolant adaptor let me know.... im having one made and it costing me 300 bucks for the custom work.... ill sell the specs to ya for cheap so you can get your made for cheaper


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_incase anyone is looking for specs on that coolant adaptor let me know.... im having one made and it costing me 300 bucks for the custom work.... ill sell the specs to ya for cheap so you can get your made for cheaper

you mean this?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

AWESEOM..... you rock!
you might same me some cash


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

do you have any non moving diagrams with measurements?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (vwandabmw)*

ok.... I just got them to design the piece for me..... but one thing I didnt think about until now is y not just get a piece made that the same as the plastic flange and then weld the 16V piece to it then obviously cut off and well the other opening shut
i dont know but it seems to me that would be a little cheaper?


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## Yurko (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

gruvenparts might help you out.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_ok.... I just got them to design the piece for me..... but one thing I didnt think about until now is y not just get a piece made that the same as the plastic flange and then weld the 16V piece to it then obviously cut off and well the other opening shut
i dont know but it seems to me that would be a little cheaper?

That's fine until for whatever reason you need to replace the head. Then you have to have all that custom work done again.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

y would that be you can still unbolt the 16v flange and away you go


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

this is what i mean

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_this is what i mean

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










It took me a second to get on board with that idea, but it does seem like a cheaper alternative for us non-CAD-using folk! I was getting ready to try fab'ing something out of 1/2" aluminum plate by hand tomorrow... I think I'm going to try that instead. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Shifty)*

after thinking abot this some more.... i have to take a look at the 16v flange..... its at the machine shop..... I am going to see if i can cut both of the pipes on the flange and then weld both to the plate then you have 2 ports coming into the head


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (DWP)*

alright i started on fabricating my version of the mount today here are some pictures
















i intend on welding that side hole shut


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

Cool deal man! Why didn't you cut it closer to the head and eliminate that second tube altogether?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Shifty)*

i thought about that but then i wouldnt be able to get the bolts into the holes to put into the head
_Quote, originally posted by *Shifty* »_Cool deal man! Why didn't you cut it closer to the head and eliminate that second tube altogether?


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

Roger that, thanks. Keep us posted as to how it works!


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Shifty)*

i will.... i think im going to make another DIY for this.... with everything from replacing rod bearings to whatever use i have to do..... with lots of pictures


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

alright i got the piece welded together today here are some pics


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Shifty)*

Someone mentioned to me that I have a Rocco exhaust mani and that it appears you're using an A2 mani. I assume the Rocco one will not work?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

ok here is the question i have..... i ordered a 16V Fuel Rail from bahn brenner... but i dont think i have the right one.... can someone tell me if both of these will work?








and








do i have to have this part in order to make it work?









_Modified by duke_seb at 10:16 AM 5-27-2009_


_Modified by duke_seb at 10:16 AM 5-27-2009_


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## doodpod (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_do i have to have this part in order to make it work?









Yes.


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (doodpod)*

BBM told me I could use either one of those adapters. they said you only need the canister style if you want to retain the stock MkIV reg. Might give them a call for more details, but i'm sure you can make it work.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

OK im looking through the bentley and I have a BEV engine correct me if im wrong here but with the BEV the FPR is part of the fuel filter back by the tank..... I just want to be sure before i do this but i should be able to run the fuel line right to the fuel rail without a FPR Adaptor correct?


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

here is an example of what my engine looks like


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_here is an example of what my engine looks like









Huh. Makes sense to me. My car has the FPR there at the end of the rail so I went with the "canister" adapter.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Shifty)*

if thats the case.... it looks like the BEV and BBW engine is a litle easier


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Shifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shifty* »_
Huh. Makes sense to me. My car has the FPR there at the end of the rail so I went with the "canister" adapter. 

my MKIII had it at the end too.... when i popped the hood to do some research i thought i was retarted.... I was like.... where they hell is that stupid thing..... i was following the fuel line and everything.... went back to the bentley and i noticed it was missing from the BBW engine diagram..... and then i thought OMG i have the dredded BBW..... but from what i can tell BBW only came on Jettas..... but then i verfied it in the car and in the manual that BEV and BBW both have the FPR back in the tank


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_if thats the case.... it looks like the BEV and BBW engine is a litle easier

until you want to upgrade your fueling


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

im not planning anything special..... just want to have a stock 16V


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_im not planning anything special..... just want to have a stock 16V

lol. so did I








in fact, I looked into swapping in the BWW/BEW fuel system to avoid needing a FPR for a cleaner engine bay.


_Modified by elRey at 9:56 PM 5-27-2009_


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

haha.... no really im serious.... im already into this build for like 1500 bucks..... its not the big stuff that gets you its the little stuff... like orings and oil filters and oil and gaskets....etc etc.... ill be quite happy with a stock 16V.... once i get that one there im going to get C2 Software for more power and to get rid of the CEL from the SAI
my MKIII with a cam and chip couldnt even touch a stock 16V ..... and i drove that for 6 years.... i might consider something else but then i have to replace the FPR the Clutch ..... etc etc etc...eeeek


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

elrey what did you do about this vacuum port on the lower intake... i dont even see it on yours...... i looked through every opening on the lower intake and i cant even see where it even goes... but anyway I was thinking of running the Vacuum line that goes into the side of the MKIV 2L Upper intake and running it down to the lower one? what you think?










_Modified by duke_seb at 8:54 PM 5-30-2009_


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_elrey what did you do about this vacuum port on the lower intake... i dont even see it on yours...... i looked through every opening on the lower intake and i cant even see where it even goes... but anyway I was thinking of running the Vacuum line that goes into the side of the MKIV 2L Upper intake and running it down to the lower one? what you think?

It goes to the injectors. If you pull the old injector seats out and look at threads you can see a hole. I left the port open. The digi injector seats cover the inside hole. If you want you can just put a rubber vac plug over it. It will not see vacuum.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (elRey)*

I took quick look back and I don't think I've posted my current setup (life beyond the head swap):
MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build


































_Modified by elRey at 7:24 PM 5-31-2009_


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Alright I have quick question for you.... i noticed that you have a block off from the front coolant flange on the 16V..... can you explain to me how this works..... i mean im not totally sure what happens..... i assumed that with the 16V coolant came in through the side and went out threw the front?...... im probably wrong..... but is there openings in the bottom of the head to allow coolant to drain down and go into the block and out the MKIV front coolant flange?.....


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

16v head has all the same coolant ports as 8v head at the block mating surface. Coolant gets pushed up from the block to the head past the head gasket and then out the side thru the coolant flange.


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## jettaiv4turbochrg (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (elRey)*

ok elrey.... i missed the stupid cutout when i was trming the skirts..... so i dont have to take the engine apart to figure out where is supposed to be can you tell me which dot represents the spot where the cutout for the oil squiters is?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (duke_seb)*

I don't remember off hand, but the 1.8t guys should know. They're in the same spot on the 1.8t.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (elRey)*

are they in the same spot as the original 2L 16V? cuz i have another one i have access to to look


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap (duke_seb)*

figured it out.... took my MKIV 2L piston to the dealer and asked them which way faced the belts.....
the notch is on the front of the engine


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (DWP)*

Hey elrey can u tell me what the difference between 16v and mkiv rods are I have them side by side and I can't see a reason why u can't use the rods out of a mkiv


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_Hey elrey can u tell me what the difference between 16v and mkiv rods are I have them side by side and I can't see a reason why u can't use the rods out of a mkiv

I'm guessing you have AEG mk4 rods in front of you. While AEG rods do look similar to 9a rods, AZG/BEW rods are totally different. 
20mm pin vs 19mm pin. straight cut vs tapered small ends. and 9a are beefier than AZG/BEW.
Even the AEG rods are slightly different and are not an exact fit into 9a pistons. Or at least the pins. IIRC, the 9a pins are longer than AEG pins.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

I actually have 1.8t rods and they look the same as the 9a ones.... Any reason I shouldn't use them I was told they are fine that they were just lighter


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_I actually have 1.8t rods and they look the same as the 9a ones.... Any reason I shouldn't use them I was told they are fine that they were just lighter

AEB rods or other 1.8T rods (AWD/AWW/AWP/APH. etc)?
AEB rods = 9a 16v rods.
all other 1.8T rods = AZG/BEW rods (for this purpose).


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

Well my 1.8t rods will work I realize now what u mean by tapered at the top after I compared them.... Problem I'm having now though is I have 19mm wrist pin holes and 20mm wrist pins I just ordered new wrist pin bushings at 20 a piece


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

ok i sorted out my wrist pin problem.... just wondering something on a totally different topic.... the mcmaster headbolts are they they same specs as factory... do i torque them the same as standard bolts?.... are they stretch bolts?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_ok i sorted out my wrist pin problem.... just wondering something on a totally different topic.... the mcmaster headbolts are they they same specs as factory... do i torque them the same as standard bolts?.... are they stretch bolts?

I torqued them the same as OEM. I don't know if they are stretch. I wouldn't think so. They are 12.9 class bolts.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

but this is what OEM says
Tightening torque
• Cylinder head to cylinder block
(stretch bolts - always replace)
stage I 40 Nm (30 ft-Ib)
stage II additional % turn (90°)
stage III additional % turn (90°
what did you do?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_but this is what OEM says
Tightening torque
• Cylinder head to cylinder block
(stretch bolts - always replace)
stage I 40 Nm (30 ft-Ib)
stage II additional % turn (90°)
stage III additional % turn (90°
what did you do?

I did that.


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

Good then they are stretch bolts


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

the mcmaster bolts ARE NOT stretch bolts! 
they do not have the spiral fluting which allow the bolt to stretch. you risk deforming the headbolt seats or worse if you do the aditional turns. 
I'd torque em how ever ARP head studs ar torqued
that said I need to read through this. I'm excited my 16v may be able to live past my a1-a2 chassis


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weeblebiker* »_the mcmaster bolts ARE NOT stretch bolts! 
they do not have the spiral fluting which allow the bolt to stretch. you risk deforming the headbolt seats or worse if you do the aditional turns. 
I'd torque em how ever ARP head studs ar torqued


Good to know, thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I do have one question before putting this thing together: what's the compression ratio?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Shifty)*

10.8:1 advertised, same as a 9A but may vary slightly due to the different headgasket.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Issam Abed now offers ARP studs for this application.
I've been running 15psi daily on the 12.9 class bolts (your mileage may vary), but when ever I do tear down the engine, I'll be calling Issam.


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_10.8:1 advertised, same as a 9A but may vary slightly due to the different headgasket.

Great, thank you.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## hellrbbt (Sep 17, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Great build and write up! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

If i have a chip or a reflash on the ecu then i do the swap will be safe or i need to reprogram de ecu?


_Modified by sauron18 at 7:15 AM 10-8-2009_


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (sauron18)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sauron18* »_If i have a chip or a reflash on the ecu then i do the swap will be safe or i need to reprogram de ecu?

You'll be safe.


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*

Alright guys I'm on the home stretch with the wife's build!








A couple questions: 
-It looks like you have an adapter of some sort on the dizzy for the CPS plug? Am I mistaken? I don't have my dizzy yet, it should be here next week, I'm just trying to plan ahead...
-What plug wires and coil were used? 16 wires right? Somehow I either missed that or forgot.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*

yes, 16v wires. Talyor wires #77282 from US Autoparts . stock mk4 8v coil pack. However, I had to make a small offset bracket so the coil pack would clear the head.
for the CPS I made an adapter /pigtail. One end from a mk2 dizzy connector & the other end from a spare mk4 CPS.



_Modified by elRey at 9:19 PM 10-18-2009_


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (elRey)*

One more thing that I may have left out... 1.8T water pipe is needed. The 2.0L 8v one will interfere with the head.


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_ for the CPS I made an adapter /pigtail. One end from a mk2 dizzy connector & the other end from a spare mk4 CPS.









I was afraid of that. Wiring is not my forte. Anything tricky about that? (i.e., Which pin goes to which wire?)
When you say 1.8T water pipe, you are referring to the hard metal one correct?
Thanks for the replies elRey. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Shifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shifty* »_
Anything tricky about that? (i.e., Which pin goes to which wire?) 

Ours is ready to run, just need to figure this plug out and get the fuel and vacuum connected.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*

I'll check the pin# <-> pin# today when I regap my plugs


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*

For the CPS <-> dizzy hall sensor connector:
2.0 pin <-> 16v pin:
1 <-> 3
2 <-> 2
3 <-> 1

It's in reverse order.


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*

You're the man. 
I am trying to get the pin out of the distributor shaft today... not working. Is there a way to get the hall sender off there without removing the shaft?!


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Shifty)*

OK I'm ready to put the wheel on there. You don't happen to have a pic of the relation of the notches before cutting the shaft?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*

I guess you're asking how the 1.8T wheel is postioned (turned) in relation to the dizzy shaft/cam key. All the pictures I have are posted in this thread. The best advise I can give is to 
1) find a mk4 2.0L or 1.8T and look at it with motor set at TDC and note which way the trigger wheel turns. Determine without a shodow of a doubt which window's edge is TDC at the hall sensor.
2) mount the dizzy so you can adjust it both ways if needed. set motor AND head to TDC and note which way the dizzy turns. Then hold the 1.8T trigger wheel against the dizzy so that the previously determined TDC window edge is in the center of the dizzy hall sensor. 
2) mark the 1.8T wheel and the dizzy shaft. 
Done. (besides doing the work







)



_Modified by elRey at 4:49 PM 11-6-2009_


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_I guess you're asking how the 1.8T wheel is postioned (turned) in relation to the dizzy shaft/cam key. All the pictures I have are posted in this thread. The best advise I can give is to 
1) find a mk4 2.0L or 1.8T and look at it with motor set at TDC and note which way the trigger wheel turns. Determine without a shodow of a doubt which window's edge is TDC at the hall sensor.
2) mount the dizzy so you can adjust it both ways if needed. set motor AND head to TDC and note which way the dizzy turns. Then hold the 1.8T trigger wheel against the dizzy so that the previously determined TDC window edge is in the center of the dizzy hall sensor. 
2) mark the 1.8T wheel and the dizzy shaft. 
Done. (besides doing the work







)
_Modified by elRey at 4:49 PM 11-6-2009_

Awesome bro. I once again appreciate it. Hopefully I an get the thing figured out and fire the car up before next week. Just need to get the vac lines and distributor installed and she's rollin!


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Shifty)*

hey rey are you using the coolant flange on the front of the head or do you have it blocked off.... i was under the impressiong that coolant would flow in the side of the head and out the flange on the block correct me if im wrong... I have it blocked off right now but i cant see from your pictures what you did..... I was sure i read in one of your posts at one point it was blocked off


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*



elRey said:


> I guess you're asking how the 1.8T wheel is postioned (turned) in relation to the dizzy shaft/cam key. All the pictures I have are posted in this thread. The best advise I can give is to
> 1) find a mk4 2.0L or 1.8T and look at it with motor set at TDC and note which way the trigger wheel turns. Determine without a shodow of a doubt which window's edge is TDC at the hall sensor.
> 2) mount the dizzy so you can adjust it both ways if needed. set motor AND head to TDC and note which way the dizzy turns. Then hold the 1.8T trigger wheel against the dizzy so that the previously determined TDC window edge is in the center of the dizzy hall sensor.
> 2) mark the 1.8T wheel and the dizzy shaft.
> ...


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_One more thing that I may have left out... 1.8T water pipe is needed. The 2.0L 8v one will interfere with the head.

just to let you know i didnt need this..... I acutally got one and then it agravated me so i didnt use it......
that one stupid bolt on the back of the block that holds the piece in I couldnt get it out so i just cut the bracket and then adjusted it a little down and then rewelded it back up again..... it is only about a 1/4" off


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## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

LOL Man I wish you were closer to me... I'd pay you to help me on mine.








So I'm trying to get the final bits in order - namely vac lines, fuel lines, and the dizzy. Dizzy's no problem, pretty confident on that. Fuel lines are OK too. Vac lines might require some trial and error... Now I see that Beetle oil cap riser, which I thought was purely for convinience, and I notice it looks like it's a vent hose. Am I right? Is there any way around using that part?
Sorry Rey, I'm just excited about getting ours running and I trust your advice.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shifty)*

Sorry for the lack of responses. This thread must have dropped off my recent topic list.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for modifying the coolant pipe to make it work.
I explored the 2.0L trigger wheel on the back of the 1.8T cam gear. The issue is that the 16v head will need some machining to fit the 2.0L hall sensor under the 1.8T cam gear. I didn't know how much material is in that area of the head. The modified dizzy seemed to be a much more straight forward mod that I could do myself. Other options I considered was fab'ing a custom bracket to hold the trigger wheel and be able to bolt the 1.8T hall sensor housing. This would require design time and access to a machine shop which was very limited to me.
For the New Beetle Valve cover breather... You need to vent the crankcase. Another option would be to vent it from the oil filter bracket like on the 1.8Ts (they use both).


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## TightDub (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (TightDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TightDub* »_Missed the build but this is awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Contemplating this swap on the beetle Rey. Lining up my pieces slowly..I talked to Scott(Assist Motorsoprts) about it your name came up quick... he spoke highly of your skills which is a compliment from him.


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

elRey, how much hp and torq are you making after the turbo installed?


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## DubChub (Nov 19, 2007)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
The exhaust leak is from a threaded hole in the mani I have yet to find a bolt to plug it.

this was a while ago, so you probably already found one. And I'm not 100% on 16v manifolds... And this may also sound a bit strange.. But.... 
Do you have any spare wheel bolts? (I've done this on ABA/Early 8v Manifolds.)


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (DubChub)*

Yeah, I had it covered moments after I post that way back. I believe it was a M10x1 (fine) bolt. However, that manifold's been long gone


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## mannythechamp (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: (elRey)*

rey can u help me ??? plzzz 
im reallly interested into doing this swap since it isnt very inexpensive to do considering getting a deal with the 16v head now i have an AEG 8v 2.0 on a 2000 golf i want to do this i just want to know if its something attainable in an easy way or should i just stick to a new autotech cam and springs..
help me out i read that if i dnt turbo this setup i actually loose CR is that true what do you recommend so many people telling me different things and i dont know what to do anymore 
well anyways i appreciate the help thanks man 
manny


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (mannythechamp)*

major obstacles:
- custom coolant flange adapter
- custom throttle body adapter
- cam position sensor (dizzy)


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## mannythechamp (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: (elRey)*

do i need new pistons to not loose CR because i cnt afford boost right 
now







thanks


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

it's good to have this back.


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## raymondlee (Jun 8, 2008)

dreading the distro thing


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## m_eventos (Nov 9, 2007)

just a quick question, what headgasket did you use, how did you cover the 3 oil return holes in the block since they do not match the 16v head?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

used a mk4 2.0L head gasket. The head gasket is closed over those oil return holes. Tho the head doesn't quite cover the holes 100%, the head gasket does. So, with lower crankcase pressure there should be an issue. I haven't had any.


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## MK1_F00L (Nov 13, 2001)

Been following this thread a little and am doing a similar project just with a 1.8t bottom end I see how you installed the CPS did you give any thought to using the cam gear from the Mk4 motor as the CPS is attached to it on the 2.0L as well having both both cam gears side by side they do look the same. Would there be any reason not to try this way and get a block off plate for the distributor? I can take photos if that will help?


Either way awesome project makes me feel better that I wasn't crazy on how I was going about thing for my motor



elRey said:


> CPS is in the thread....
> stock 16v distributor + 20v trigger wheel
> I cut/grind the 16v trigger wheel down just enough to slide the 20v wheel over it, then tack welded it.
> 
> _Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_I'll be fitting a 20v CPS hall senosr wheel onto the 16v dizzy and use the dizzy as the CPS:


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## raymondlee (Jun 8, 2008)

was thinking the same thing. i think he said he didnt want to make the provision to the head to bolt the cps sensor to the 16v head or either it was clearance issues.. I am about to get back on this.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

You can't just drill/tap mounting holes for the sensor into the head. You would need to machine a spot for the sensor to clear the gear. And doing so, you would need to make sure you don't interfere with coolant passages. Also, the 2.0L gear is keyed differently than the 1.8T/16v gear to fix on the camshaft. To get around that you could spot weld the trigger wheel from a 2.0L gear onto the back of a 1.8T/16v gear, but then it makes it just as much work as what I did.

I explored that route and even went as far as separating a trigger wheel off a 2.0L gear and test fitted a 2.0L sensor under a gear.


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## Mk41.8t (Nov 22, 2004)

very nice:thumbup:


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## VdubPipoz (May 22, 2011)

Back from the dead!

just a quick question im going to the junker on saturday in exactly what year and volks can i find a dohc 16v head?


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

I think the 16V heads for this thread (1.8L PL and 2.0L 9A engines in North America) can be sourced from:
90-93 Passat 16V
87-92 GTI 16V
87-92 GLI 16V
86-89 Scirocco 16V

If you want the 2.0L 16V pistons too, the donor would have to be a 90-93 Passat, GTI or GLI (9A engine). Note that many were 8V instead of 16V, so don't buy sight unseen. 

That said, I wonder if a later FSI 16V head could be used, perhaps with MegaSquirt. Any thoughts?


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## blankblank (Oct 16, 2010)

@ elRey
I tried searching this thread but couldn't find what exhaust manifold you used to bolt up the stock mk4 2.0l downpipe...what are the options?

Btw trying to source all the parts for pretty identical build and it is hard...i am starting to give up slightly


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

blankblank said:


> @ elRey
> I tried searching this thread but couldn't find what exhaust manifold you used to bolt up the stock mk4 2.0l downpipe...what are the options?


mk2/passat 16v manifold.


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## Albertkvw (Aug 19, 2010)

good stuff, this could be an option one day:thumbup:


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## jjensen (Jun 26, 2009)

I'll be fitting a 20v CPS hall senosr wheel onto the 16v dizzy and use the dizzy as the CPS:
























,



hey rey is the location of the tdc window edge on the 1.8t trigger wheel the 100 percent correct in the picture?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

It's been a while, but I think I made a correction after more research.

use these as reference:
http://www.wetdub.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=9006

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/355684-Camshaft-position-sensor-alignment


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## jjensen (Jun 26, 2009)

so its the next window clock wise. which edge should i mark as tdc?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

That's the way I see it. I'd mark the leading edge, but anywhere between the leading and falling edge is fine 1) because you can rotate the dizzy 2) it doesn't have to be dead on. The ECU uses the crank position sensor for precise angle and big/small windows on trigger wheel for which stroke it's on.


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## jjensen (Jun 26, 2009)

thanks i owe you one


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## RedVirus80 (Jan 17, 2008)

I have a 01 2.0 aeg 8v...Could I use a 16v head off a mk4 1.8 and if so would I have to do anything to the ecu? also why the tb from the lexus?...thicker? I like to do a head swap or beef up what I got now but don't know where to find the complete kits. :screwy:


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## Sunnyboy1979 (May 2, 2012)

*16v head on AEG Block*

If you would give me the scamatics of your build, from start to finish. I too woud like to convert a 16v head on my block.

Thanks


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Sunnyboy1979 said:


> If you would give me the scamatics of your build, from start to finish. I too woud like to convert a 16v head on my block.
> 
> Thanks


the first page has pretty much all you need. Ther eare some custom parts needed but I do not know if Rey or anyone else has schematics for them.


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## nanderdubfan (Aug 13, 2007)

RedVirus80 said:


> I have a 01 2.0 aeg 8v...Could I use a 16v head off a mk4 1.8. :screwy:


x2 does anyone know the answer to that?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

nanderdubfan said:


> x2 does anyone know the answer to that?


 No Mk4s, in NA at least, came with a 16V head. If you mean the 20V head then yes but that is another thread.


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## rjcmets5 (Jun 16, 2012)

*Head related*

was wondering what specific year/make head and intake manifold you used and also did you use the throttle body from the mk4 2.0 

thanks


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

rjcmets5 said:


> was wondering what specific year/make head and intake manifold you used and also did you use the throttle body from the mk4 2.0
> 
> thanks


 head: 1992 passat 
intake: scirocco drive-side TB intake mani 
TB: 2002 2.0L AZG


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## scirocconaut (Oct 7, 2011)

I just happen to have a Aeg block and a 16v head in my carport, 
I knocked out the guide pins out of curiosity 

Glad to see this thread :thumbup:


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## rjcmets5 (Jun 16, 2012)

*Almost done with the build*

Was wondering if someone knew these answers. The 1.8t elray is getting the cam gear from and hall sensor wheel is from what year car? Also will that fix my problem getting the 1.8t cam gear so the crank gear lines up evenly with the cam gear for the timing?


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## rjcmets5 (Jun 16, 2012)

nanderdubfan said:


> x2 does anyone know the answer to that?


It's a 20v head from an mk4 not 16v


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

cam gear is from a later, interal waterpump, 1.8T. 
The early 1.8T (AEB) had external waterpumps. Those use the same cam gear as the 16v and will NOT work. Cam gear must be from a later 1.8T 20v with an internal waterpump. 

AEB (external waterpump) = PASSAT/A4 1998-2000 


everything else = internal waterpump :thumbup: 

Same for the distributor/CPS 4-window trigger wheel.


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## rjcmets5 (Jun 16, 2012)

thank you


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## rjcmets5 (Jun 16, 2012)

*fuel injectors*

do you think i could use 2002 1.8t fuel injectors.. i have some laying around from an audi i parted out and there real clean


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

you'll need injector seat extensions, the right connectors (if you are using a AZG+ harness), and your software will need to be programed for them.


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## rjcmets5 (Jun 16, 2012)

*fuel injectors*

so what fuel injectors do you recommend i use


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## petreeman1000 (Aug 24, 2012)

I was thinking about doing this to my 8v BEV, would that be any different? harder? easier?


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## YASHA7FOLD (Mar 31, 2011)

Just saw this for the first time. Very nice build man.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

petreeman1000 said:


> I was thinking about doing this to my 8v BEV, would that be any different? harder? easier?


late answer, easier due to your returnless fuel system.



YASHA7FOLD said:


> Just saw this for the first time. Very nice build man.


Thank you


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## 16valvulasturbo (Dec 1, 2012)

for the problem everyone seems to encounter with using the 16v distributor location as a camshaft position sensor' 
there is a factory solution to that.
the audi v8 powered cars from mid 90's or late 90's had a camshaft position sensor mounted in that exact location.
there is another thread in the 16v forums showing pictures of this.
same location; plug and play.


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## 16valvulasturbo (Dec 1, 2012)

here is the answer to this puzzle:


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...e-cam-position-sensor-to-16v-kr-cylinder-head


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

looks like abz cam extends out of head and trigger wheel is bolted directly to the end of cam, very similar to 1.8t. 

Not sure I would call this plug-n-play. How do you propose we bolt wheel to cam?


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## 16valvulasturbo (Dec 1, 2012)

I WILL HAVE A LOOK AT MY 16V CAMSHAFT. MAYBE IT HAS A PRE-TAPPED HOLE? OR IT CAN BE DONE AT A MACHINE SHOP.
OR RUN THE AUDI pt CAMSHAFT IN THE HEAD.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

There's no pre-drilled hole, not large enough to tap for that trigger wheel bolt. And the end of the 16v cam is set back into the head. So, there needs to be some extension needed between cam end and trigger wheel to place the trigger wheel further out for the hall sensor to reach it.

Sorry, not as plug-n-play as you were hoping.


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## jettafeen (Dec 14, 2012)

*fuel system*

wow great build, very nicely done. im interested in what fuel system you used to run naturally aspirated. same injectors/fuel rail?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

stock mk4 2.0L injectors / fpr in any flavor 16v fuel rail (bbm) + mk4 fpr adapter. (and possibly injector seat extensions if your injectors are too short).


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## farhnFahrnFarn! (Jan 25, 2012)

:thumbup::beer:


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## Jimmys2.5 (Oct 15, 2006)

just throwing this out there, but couldn't you just use a dizzy from an ABF? The ABF uses a crank trigger and uses the CPS from the Dizzy right? I just imported mine from the UK for $60 shipped. I could be wrong though.


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## BIGJ541 (Dec 1, 2012)

*Thinking this is my next major project ...*

Nice I think this is my next project soon as i'am done with my suspension I want to attack this 16v swap . I have a 2000 Golf that was a us spec gem an built one (not mex or pen) I was trying to figure out what motor I have? The BBW only came in like 02 and up? So I was wondering years later are you still running the same OG head I know I seem you turbo ed it some Iam guessing you rebuilt it at least that time but how many Miles are one it? what was you gas mileage on a semi stock 16V head swap ? What motor in the mk4 2.0L fam is best for this swap? Thanks Great build I can't wait to start I have had a few 16V in my younger years and a few VR but iam looking froward to being in the 16V relm again . i always liked the intake mani its the little things some time or just striving to be different lol ..


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## doodpod (Apr 27, 2004)

I'm still working on collecting parts for this project, but wondering if anyone knows the injector output for the stock 2.0 injectors. For example, the stock 1.8t injectors are 318cc.

Obviously the stock 2-liter injectors work in this application, but ideally you'd want dual spray cones for the 16v head. If I can source some dual spray cone injectors that have a similar otput to the stock 2.0 units that would be ideal. :thumbup:


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## dub_m_d (Apr 14, 2013)

I have been reading threads like this for months and finally decided to join vortex. Ive got tons of respect for those of you doing this project and I just picked up a 9a head to start this project myself.


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## kazcho (Oct 6, 2011)

@BIGJ541 the AEG was the 8v in 2000


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## boostedbastid (Aug 31, 2009)

Great build!


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Much appreciated.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

back from the dead lol

quick question, wth is going on with the distributor... im assuming people are saying crank position sensor, when cps is mentioned? 
pardon my mk3+ ignorance, but arent the crank position sensors in the bottom of the block by the starter? 
Im just so confused as to why you need anything in the distributor.... im pretty sure my 03 golf 2.0 has no engine sensors in the cyl head..... ?


awesome thread by the way. wish i wasnt in cali, doesnt look tooooo hard to make it look factory enough to pass inspection, the SAI would be the hardest part.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

the4ork said:


> back from the dead lol
> 
> quick question, wth is going on with the distributor... im assuming people are saying crank position sensor, when cps is mentioned?
> pardon my mk3+ ignorance, but arent the crank position sensors in the bottom of the block by the starter?
> ...


CPS = Camshaft Position Sensor. Yes, it can be confusing because the acronym can work for both. However, for this thread, it means cam position sensor.

And your 03 golf does have one. It's either under the cam gear or the new style which I think is on the tranny side of the valve cover.

and thanks


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

well ill be dammed.... must be a me7 thing


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## boostedbastid (Aug 31, 2009)

Subscribed


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## 5.9L24vcummins2.0L8vjetta (Jul 30, 2015)

*Confused*

Ok so I might sound dumb but I just got into this I wanna swap the 2 slow out with this conversation but I can't font the right cylinder head or valve train for I got the right block to start the conversion but specifically what head is it


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

so im at a dilemma... 16v pistons/rods for ~9:1 compression with stacked gaskets, OR... stock pistons/rods for around 8.25:1 CR 

Im going turbo... I didnt really want to tear into the block for the piston/rod swap... however, by doing so i can inspect everything or replace the rod bearings... choices.

the better question is, which piston is stronger?


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## crapWagen (Oct 12, 2015)

doodpod said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
> I never put the SAI back in. GA doesn't require visual inspection.
> BUT, you could go the extra mile and use the SAI pump bracket and hoses from an 1.8T to relocate the pump down near the oil pan. Then do some custom piping to the back of the exhaust mani. The mani has a threaded port you could use. I just plug it with a bolt.
> 
> I'm sorry, I should have been more specific - I figured you'd just relocated it since I couldn't see it. If you eliminated it, and are running stock management, do you have a CEL? Or do you know a trick for not tripping the CEL (resistor or otherwise?)


LOL no, you can delete SAI and it won't throw a code, EVER


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

does anyone have that cad file or any data on the coolant flange i can take to a machinist?

As soon as i can figure out how to get this coolant flowing im ready to pull the trigger on this conversion


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## jolin0606 (Aug 20, 2015)

*16v head swap question.*

Hey there, I'm very interested in doing this myself. I have a 2000 jetta 2.0. Was wondering how you mapped the computer or if you put a new one in? Also , I'm going to look through again but where did you get the taller pistons? Nd would any local machine shop be able to machine them down so they don't hit the oil squirters or did you send them somewhere specific? 

How's your car running now? Did you experience any problems afterhaving it on the road for a while? 

Thanks for your help! 
Scott


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

I believe Rey re-mapped his computer but he can answer. You need pistons from a 9A (2L 16V engine) and have a machine shop notch them to clear the squirters. Any machine shop should be able to do it.


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## jolin0606 (Aug 20, 2015)

Thanks! I'll look into that, any other help is great appreciated nd welcomed lmao  
Scott




vwpat said:


> I believe Rey re-mapped his computer but he can answer. You need pistons from a 9A (2L 16V engine) and have a machine notch them to clear the squirters. Any machine shop should be able to do it.


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## justin_6649 (Aug 19, 2007)

sorry if this is a stupid question but my knowledge is mk1 and mk3...

why did you swap a 16v head onto the mk4 2L and not just use an original 2L 16v ???

thanks 

nice work though, very clean setup :thumbup:


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

So you can maintain all your stock accessories in a mk4


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## war.monkey (Nov 4, 2011)




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## YohanVondersmooth (Dec 27, 2016)

Is this car still around? Asking because i have a 2.0l 8v in my 12 jetta and will go 20/20 N/A hybrid on it. The plan is to use 2.5's pistons and 1.8t head with euro ALT mani and all stock 8v current management. Or if that fails go back down to chipped aba or euro ALT management.
Any USEFUL intel is appreciated.


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## andrew_gti (Jul 14, 2016)

Planning on doing something similar with a mk6 Jetta. I've got the complete parts list, but it seems even after all these years there isn't a turn key solution to the coolant flange on the side of the 16v head. 

Not trying to necro this old thread, I just know that elRey is still active as of this date, and some of the other 16v hybrid swap guys haven't been active for years.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Recently added a DSG swap to this build. I couldn't integrate the gear shifter/selector indicator nicely into the center console. So I made a custom LCD display for the dash:

LCD gear select indicator


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## andrew_gti (Jul 14, 2016)

elRey, I had PM'd you on the availability of the coolant flange for the 16v head.


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## radu dnt (Apr 8, 2019)

Hello,what code does the timing belt have?and the belt tensioner?thx


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## Dud1f3r (9 mo ago)

radu dnt said:


> Hello,what code does the timing belt have?and the belt tensioner?thx


 I believe stock belt tensioner. If you look for a "Gates Engine Timing Belt for 1993-2005 Lexus GS300 3.0L L6" you should be golden. Gates is one of the OEMs for VW, so I trust it to keep time for 60k miles or however long you like to do your timing intervals. I recommend replacing your stock water pump with an upgraded aluminum pump from your favorite euro vendor while you're there.


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## radu dnt (Apr 8, 2019)

Dud1f3r said:


> I believe stock belt tensioner. If you look for a "Gates Engine Timing Belt for 1993-2005 Lexus GS300 3.0L L6" you should be golden. Gates is one of the OEMs for VW, so I trust it to keep time for 60k miles or however long you like to do your timing intervals. I recommend replacing your stock water pump with an upgraded aluminum pump from your favorite euro vendor while you're there.


I use stock belt tensioner with Contitech CT708 timing belt


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## Dud1f3r (9 mo ago)

radu dnt said:


> I use stock belt tensioner with Contitech CT708 timing belt


Do send pics. I'm interested, I have a spare 16V head, just looking for the time to build my motor


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