# Those with the IE power kit...



## veedubbin (Oct 13, 2001)

I am contemplating this for my sportwagen, looking at the Dyno it really looks like the bulk of the improvement is in the very high rpm range. If I am not pushing it regularly will I still enjoy the improvement of it? Does it still feel like a 2.5 or does it really liven up?


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## JaxPlanet (Sep 17, 2018)

veedubbin said:


> I am contemplating this for my sportwagen, looking at the Dyno it really looks like the bulk of the improvement is in the very high rpm range. If I am not pushing it regularly will I still enjoy the improvement of it? Does it still feel like a 2.5 or does it really liven up?


I've had IE stage 1 and TCU tunes with a Neuspeed P-Flo intake for over a year now. They are fantastic.

I spent a fair amount of time considering IE's stage 2 with their custom manifold when it was on sale last Black Friday.

I decided against it when I found that stage 1 has more power than stage 2 until 5500 RPM. At 4500 RPM, stage 1 has over 2-times the HP as stage 2. Compare the stage 1 and 2 dyno charts at IE and you will see what I mean.

IMHO: If you spend most of your time under 5500 RPM, stage 1 is the best choice.


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## Papa Durf (Mar 4, 2021)

veedubbin said:


> I am contemplating this for my sportwagen, looking at the Dyno it really looks like the bulk of the improvement is in the very high rpm range. If I am not pushing it regularly will I still enjoy the improvement of it? Does it still feel like a 2.5 or does it really liven up?


i recently installed the stage 2 tune with the intake manifold (their CAI was out of stock at the time) and I love it the power is good and fun with beautiful noises. The stage 1 kit technically gives more torque from what the website says but man its great. The big limiting factor and this setup has made it very clear to me, the 5 speed manual trans is really holding it back. I get gapped by hondas with identical power because while they are shifting and hitting VTEC im still sitting in 3rd gear because it will run to around 110+ MPH.


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## JaxPlanet (Sep 17, 2018)

Papa Durf said:


> The stage 1 kit technically gives more torque from what the website says but man its great.


So I can pull a trailer faster than you up to 5500 RPM as well. LOL!



Papa Durf said:


> The big limiting factor and this setup has made it very clear to me, the 5 speed manual trans is really holding it back. I get gapped by hondas with identical power because while they are shifting and hitting VTEC im still sitting in 3rd gear because it will run to around 110+ MPH.


Not much you can do when the V-TEC kicks in bro!

Seriously, there have been some posts complaining about the manual gear ratio. I don't recall the specifics. That said, I really don't think transmission changes are going to close much of the gap so you will need to drop more money in to fill the gap.

The 2.5 was designed for reliability and serviceability. It is not a good platform for the high end performance. You can make it fun for a reasonable price but the cost per HP/TQ to do what you are describing is prohibitive.

For less than it takes to make the 2.5 leave behind most entry/mid range cars and still be a reliable daily driver, you could trade up to a Golf 1.8T with a tune. You can stage it all the way to 301 BHP / 361 BTQ with off-the-shelf DIY software and hardware. You can stop at gapping most Hondas or work your way up to gapping a Golf R.


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## Passat3.6VR (Mar 20, 2019)

I have been stage 2 IE and UM tune and it absolutely changed the car for the better. I couldn’t imagine going to stage 1 or stock tune after. I absolutely hated the car falling on its face at 5500 rpms now it’s pulls till I shift at 7200 rpms. I have absolutely no complaints. Car has no check engine light and even feels smoother throughout the rpm range. The engine bay looks a lot better also with the manifold.










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## Passat3.6VR (Mar 20, 2019)

Best thing I can say is don’t ever take advice from someone with no experience with the product. Nobody can compare stage 2 to anything if they never ran stage 2 LOL. 


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## Papa Durf (Mar 4, 2021)

Passat3.6VR said:


> Best thing I can say is don’t ever take advice from someone with no experience with the product. Nobody can compare stage 2 to anything if they never ran stage 2 LOL.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Aint that the truth


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## ChefroA6 (Dec 3, 2020)

Do all of you guys have MANUAL transmissions?
Otherwise for the life of me I can't see how I could get to 5000 RPM with my 6-speed Automatic...


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## indooraustin (Oct 2, 2016)

ChefroA6 said:


> Do all of you guys have MANUAL transmissions?
> Otherwise for the life of me I can't see how I could get to 5000 RPM with my 6-speed Automatic...


They most likely do. However integrated engineering has a tcu tune for the automatic transmissions to pair with their other tunes. 


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## ChefroA6 (Dec 3, 2020)

That's what I'm wondering about. I'm no slouch or slow poke but the most I've seen in this car when pushing it was about 3500 RPM. It builds up power when WOT but then shifts at about 3400 RPM.
I just can't figure out where these folks can push their cars into red line consistently so that they need a tune to improve "performance". I only have around normal 2-lane and 4-lane highways with 55 or 65 MPH speed limit


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## indooraustin (Oct 2, 2016)

ChefroA6 said:


> That's what I'm wondering about. I'm no slouch or slow poke but the most I've seen in this car when pushing it was about 3500 RPM. It builds up power when WOT but then shifts at about 3400 RPM.
> I just can't figure out where these folks can push their cars into red line consistently so that they need a tune to improve "performance".


Something is funky about that. When I test drove an automatic mk5 Jetta with the 2.5l I got it up to 5k rpm. Something weird is happening with your car. 


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## ChefroA6 (Dec 3, 2020)

I don't know what to tell you. I need to make a clip.
I just scanned it about 2 weeks ago. Beside some Comfort module stuff related to cheap aftermarket LED bulbs and Radio (aftermarket as well) she's clean as a whistle.


(Sorry from detracting from the IE tune topic...)


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## JaxPlanet (Sep 17, 2018)

Passat3.6VR said:


> Nobody can compare stage 2 to anything if they never ran stage 2 LOL.


Except when there are dyno tests that allow a factual comparison 



ChefroA6 said:


> ...I can't see how I could get to 5000 RPM with my 6-speed Automatic...


I have the TCU tune and, if I am heavy on the pedal, it will go to 6800 RPM. Otherwise, it uses more conservative shift points.


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## Passat3.6VR (Mar 20, 2019)

JaxPlanet said:


> Except when there are dyno tests that allow a factual comparison
> 
> 
> I have the TCU tune and, if I am heavy on the pedal, it will go to 6800 RPM. Otherwise, it uses more conservative shift points.


I’ll stick to my original comment. I can’t believe people actually follow those dyno charts these days when there is tons of real world experiences and reviews lol. All dynos are different and not many cars are the same in the same temp and condition. Stage 2 IE 2.5 ran a 14.8 in the quarter mile. Let me see your stage one come close to that. It’s night and day especially since you have the garbage auto. I have a mk6 with the auto also and bought a mk5 manual to modify LOL. Your car can shift at 6800 rpms but power goes at about 5500rpms with the stock manifold so it’s a waste. Stage 2 pulls straight to 7200rpms and the power band shows that. Race a stage 2 and see for yourself. 


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## JaxPlanet (Sep 17, 2018)

Passat3.6VR said:


> I can’t believe people actually follow those dyno charts these days when there is tons of real world experiences and reviews lol. All dynos are different and not many cars are the same in the same temp and condition. Stage 2 IE 2.5 ran a 14.8 in the quarter mile.


Nice distraction but this is about IE's dyno charts. It is not about some unknown party on the Internet who claims to have tons of experience boasting about quarter mile times without proof or fabricates dyno charts.

IE is a known entity, respected in the industry, has their own dyno, tested mods on the same car and took conditions into account.

Please share the 14.8 ticket from your run. That is an impressive time for a NA 2.5 and merits some proof.



Passat3.6VR said:


> Let me see your stage one come close to that. It’s night and day especially since you have the garbage auto. I have a mk6 with the auto also and bought a mk5 manual to modify LOL. Your car can shift at 6800 rpms but power goes at about 5500rpms with the stock manifold so it’s a waste. Stage 2 pulls straight to 7200rpms and the power band shows that. Race a stage 2 and see for yourself.


If I wanted to race a VW wagon, I definitely would not have bought a JSW 2.5. The cost per HP/TQ is too high and the performance ceiling is too low. My past cars were an 855R and an 540iT so I've been there and done that. I just wanted something cheaper to maintain, make it a little more fun, and have money to spend on other things. As for the TCU tune, it totally smooths out shifting and shifts faster. Aside from when I checked the rev limit, I always shift well before it so I stay in the 0-5500RPM sweet spot and avoid unnecessary engine wear.

If I did choose to make a VW wagon race worthy, I would have started with a 2009 JSW SEL or a GSW 1.8TSI. Either one would put a 2.5 to bed with the same money spent on mods. Consider a GSW's DSG gearbox could easily out shift you and IE can stage it all the way to 300HP. Now that's worth bragging about


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

JaxPlanet said:


> If I did choose to make a VW wagon race worthy, I would have started with a 2009 JSW SEL or a GSW 1.8TSI. Either one would put a 2.5 to bed with the same money spent on mods.


Must respectfully disagree. Most 2009s would need a ton of maintenance and refurbs before any modifications due to high mileage or being abused or neglected by prior owners. And the 1.8t in the GSW is a completely different design and has it's own problems. VW bought one back from me after the unmodified and properly broken in motor blew, and they couldn't get the replacement to run right. The 2.5 is much more robust. And if you blow one up they're several hundred dollars from a parts yard, not thousands.

Anyone interested in a turbo 2.5 should read about the 07k swaps into 944 and 924 Porsches. These guys started from scratch knowledge-wise, but have put together a depth of information about these engines and adapting them inexpensively to those Porsches instead of LS engines. One of them posted synod with 470 hp on "low boost" and 630+ on "high boost". That's "race worthy".






VW/Audi 07K (2.5L 20V I5) Swap Thread - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums


944 Turbo and Turbo-S Forum - VW/Audi 07K (2.5L 20V I5) Swap Thread - Updated 8/29/2019 This thread is to document the 07k swap into a 944/968 chassis. The 07k engine is a 2.5L 20-valve inline 5-cylinder engine from VAG. I started this thread over 5 years ago and I'm so glad that some great...



rennlist.com





I'd be all over this as I love my 2.5 wagon, but I'm the original owner of a low mile Passat with a large port motor and have a parts car to help get it into a 924. 300 hp in a 2500 lb car works for me.


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## Passat3.6VR (Mar 20, 2019)

brian81 said:


> Must respectfully disagree. Most 2009s would need a ton of maintenance and refurbs before any modifications due to high mileage or being abused or neglected by prior owners. And the 1.8t in the GSW is a completely different design and has it's own problems. VW bought one back from me after the unmodified and properly broken in motor blew, and they couldn't get the replacement to run right. The 2.5 is much more robust. And if you blow one up they're several hundred dollars from a parts yard, not thousands.
> 
> Anyone interested in a turbo 2.5 should read about the 07k swaps into 944 and 924 Porsches. These guys started from scratch knowledge-wise, but have put together a depth of information about these engines and adapting them inexpensively to those Porsches instead of LS engines. One of them posted synod with 470 hp on "low boost" and 630+ on "high boost". That's "race worthy".
> 
> ...


I agree. I owned a 1.8t in the past. I prefer the 2.5. I already ordered my jdl Manifold and some engine build parts to start my turbo build. 


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## Passat3.6VR (Mar 20, 2019)

JaxPlanet said:


> Nice distraction but this is about IE's dyno charts. It is not about some unknown party on the Internet who claims to have tons of experience boasting about quarter mile times without proof or fabricates dyno charts.
> 
> IE is a known entity, respected in the industry, has their own dyno, tested mods on the same car and took conditions into account.
> 
> ...


Go to The 2.5 group on Facebook and you will see the time slip for that 14.8 run. That was a with lots of spin of the line. Matt Joyner is his name that ran that time. He is now boosted. Also don’t go by companies dyno charts without seeing the run. People learned that from APR years ago. Where have you been?. The two cars you previously owned are slow also so don’t know how that makes you a expert on this matter. My last build made 588whp and i still learn daily. Basically to get back to the point I wouldn’t waste my time with a stage 1 tune on a 2.5 especially and auto. Waste of time. I see your frustration LOL. I went straight to stage two and gave the auto to my daughter. Also one of the fastest fwd VWs in the world is a mk3 with a 2.5 engine. Not a 1.8t. That should say a lot. Everything I said you can fact check easily. Google and quick fb search would tell you all. 


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Having owned a few 2.5s with mods ranging from full stock, stage 1, stage 2 with intake manifold, both stage 1 & 2 with an Evoultion tuning header, all the way to turbo with short runner intake manifold... 

A short runner intake manifold with matching tune makes for really fun, naturally aspirated power. Yeah, the tall gears in the 5-speed suck, but the mod is still totally worth it.


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## JaxPlanet (Sep 17, 2018)

Oh but we digress, let's get back to helping the OP:

Veedubbin wants some more performance but is concerned about mods requiring high RPM and doesn't want to push it.

I recommended IE stage 1 because it produces most of its HP before 5500RPM but not so much after it.

Passat3.6VR recommends IE stage 2, which does not provide as much HP as stage 1 under 5500RPM but provides much more HP after it.

Given Veedubbin's request, what do you think he should do brian81 & halbwissen?


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## anthonyc821 (Dec 27, 2020)

I honestly couldn't bother reading all of the posts so I'm sorry if someone mentions the things I say lol.

I have the 2012 VW Passat with the 2.5L on the Stage 1 ECU + TCU tune and AEM short ram CAI. I couldn't get stage 2 because it requires a manifold and you can't have hydraulic steering which is a bit of a bummer. But the stage 1 tune is pretty good. I have my resonator deleted an an aftermarket muffler installed, when the exhaust system gets hot it does make some small pops/burbles in first (but higher RPMS, talking about 5k+) and second gear (lower RPMS, around 2-3k). It's better to drive around in "manual" (tiptronic? I think its called) mode with the automatic transmissions. 

Overall, you do notice the increase in power and it is more fun driving around in but I would wait until the have the sales to get the tune. It is worth it I would say but it depends on what you want out of a tune.

(story time)
When you load the tune up from the computer, MAKE SURE YOU ARE CONNECTED TO A BATTERY CHARGER AND NOT ONE OF THOSE PORTABLE ONES & YOUR LAPTOP HAS A GOOD BATTERY LIFE. I live in NY so it was hard for me to be hooked up onto a charger that wasn't portable and my battery ended up starting to die while flashing the ECU and my car didn't have enough power to finish the tune. On top of that, when the flash was at like 90% my laptop ended up shutting off which is very annoying. I was lucky enough to not have my ECU bricked but I had to go buy a new battery and have the ECU flashed back to stock then flashed to the IE tune again with the help of a friend using a battery tender.


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