# Guidance with carb setup.



## vwpanzer (Jan 30, 2012)

Hey everyone. I decided to post up here to seek a little guidance. I am not new to vw's, but I am new to carbs. Currently I have been debating on which way to go on a build I am working on. So here is what I have. 84 rabbit in great condition came with a 1.6 carb totally stock. I also have a new 2.0 aba 16v conversion with some light head work and cams. It is pretty much assembled. I was going to use the engine in my mk2 and do a 16vt. Well, along came the mk1 and I decided to use the engine for that. Here is what I am thinking, I will spend a lot more money building the 16vt and getting the remaining turbo setup compared to installing dual webers. Plus the engine bay will look a lot clearer and I really don't needed a lot of power. I also want to try to keep it carbed since the car was originally carbed. 

My question is where do I start? 
This is what I have thought about so far...hopefully someone can tell me if I am on the right track. 
Swap to 2.0abf piston
Need fuel pump
MSD ignition
Dual weber 45 w/ manifold 
Radiator? Don't know if the stock one will work from what I've heard

Are there any other items or mods thatI have not thought about yet?
I would greatly appreciate any knowlegde from those that have experience.

Thanks for any input.


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

vwpanzer said:


> Hey everyone. I decided to post up here to seek a little guidance. I am not new to vw's, but I am new to carbs. Currently I have been debating on which way to go on a build I am working on. So here is what I have. 84 rabbit in great condition came with a 1.6 carb totally stock. I also have a new 2.0 aba 16v conversion with some light head work and cams. It is pretty much assembled. I was going to use the engine in my mk2 and do a 16vt. Well, along came the mk1 and I decided to use the engine for that. Here is what I am thinking, I will spend a lot more money building the 16vt and getting the remaining turbo setup compared to installing dual webers. Plus the engine bay will look a lot clearer and I really don't needed a lot of power. I also want to try to keep it carbed since the car was originally carbed.
> 
> My question is where do I start?
> This is what I have thought about so far...hopefully someone can tell me if I am on the right track.
> ...


1. For the fuel pump use a Carter 4070 pump, also, invest in a low pressure fuel pressure regulator.. These carbs like between 2-4 psi. I run mine at only 2.5/3 psi MAX. 

2. For the ignition, are you going with an MSD ignition that can aid in supplying a timing curve? Just something to think about if you haven't thought about it yet.

3. You can use the stock rad, however you'll be limited on the length of the velocity stacks you can run. Also, carb two will draw in more hot air than carb one due to the fact that the rad will be slightly in front of it. If you feel like spending the money here's what I bought: http://www.full-race.com/store/engine-cooling/full-race-prostreet-honda-ef-ed-radiator.html

It's for a civic, but it's a direct fit into a MK1. All you have to do is drill one hole in the core support for one of the mounting pegs on the bottom.. or just cut it off lol.

Here's a picture of the radiator in my car:
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15428609362" title="IMG_20140903_201327_988 by dougkehl1, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3934/15428609362_8fd65c567c_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="IMG_20140903_201327_988"></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/14150639909" title="IMG_20140603_090558_160 by dougkehl1, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3890/14150639909_106490344c_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="IMG_20140603_090558_160"></a>
<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/14333960471" title="IMG_20140603_090539_380 by dougkehl1, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2900/14333960471_474508bb8b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="IMG_20140603_090539_380"></a>


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## vwpanzer (Jan 30, 2012)

That looks great! Thanks for the info. 

I will take your advice on the fuel pump and regulator. As for the MSD I haven't thought about it, but it seems that I will get the best performance out of a ignition that will supply a timing curve. 
Is their a big advantage in having one? Again I am still learning so cut me a little slack. Lol, how about a distributor. I'm assuming the stock 16v will not work? And is the wiring for the MSD really extensive? Not that it matters Im pretty good with wiring. 
Btw your radiator option is a great idea. Pretty cool.


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

vwpanzer said:


> That looks great! Thanks for the info.
> 
> I will take your advice on the fuel pump and regulator. As for the MSD I haven't thought about it, but it seems that I will get the best performance out of a ignition that will supply a timing curve.
> Is their a big advantage in having one? Again I am still learning so cut me a little slack. Lol, how about a distributor. I'm assuming the stock 16v will not work? And is the wiring for the MSD really extensive? Not that it matters Im pretty good with wiring.
> Btw your radiator option is a great idea. Pretty cool.


No problem man, everyone's gotta start somewhere:thumbup: 

Yeah, if I were you I'd go with an MSD 6AL2 Box, I'm pretty sure it has a programmable timing curve that you set on a laptop. Other than that you can do just MSD 6AL with a used MSD 8980 timing computer which you'll have to find used and has a fixed 20 degree advance/retard curve. It's truly a retarding module though, so when timing the car with the 8980, you will set your total advance on your distributor that you want at 3000 rpm, say 30 degrees total advance and it will retard the timing 20 degrees to 10 degrees BTDC at idle. Once it senses you've reached 1000 rpm it begins advancing the timing until it reaches total advance. The stock distributor works great with the MSD. I ran the MSD 6AL box with the MSD 8980 timing computer and my stock 16v distributor and it worked pretty good :thumbup: Also, the wiring isn't too bad with the MSD stuff at all.

But the main advantage to having a timing curve is that at lower speed driving you'll make better power with the proper amount or close to the proper amount of timing advance. You don't want to be running 30 degrees of advance when you might only need 20 or so. Having too much advance when you don't need it can cause preignition/knock. I have run my car with a locked out stock 16v distributor running 32 degrees of advance. It was a pain in the a** to get started and it only ran good when I was in it where I actually needed all of that advance which was above 3krpm.

There are other options for ignition, like the knock box out of a 16v Scirocco/GTI/GLI (what i use now) that has a set timing curve and you can splice that right into your stock MK1 ignition system as long as you get the knock box with a harness. I have a schematic for the wiring and it's a pretty well covered subject.

You can use a SAAB 900 8v vacuum advance distributor, in which case you literally bolt that sucker on, set the timing advance at idle, plug in the hall sender plug from the original distributor, and leave your mk1 ignition system alone. You don't have to change a thing. Just don't hook the vacuum advance up, as these carbs don't draw vacuum unless at idle. The timing curve is done mechanically by the weights and springs inside that expand when the centrifugal force becomes great enough to do so. Granted this is not the best method, but it's the fastest and cheapest way to get the car up and running if you do only that. I've used this also, and it works good, especially with MSD 6AL to give you a better spark.

And then there is Megajolt with the use of a crank trigger, and a ford EDIS-4 coil pack. I'm in the process of switching to this. It's basically a standalone ignition system, completely mappable in 2D and 3D. It's by far the best method, but by far requires the most work and money.


On to the radiator, if you decided to go with a civic rad make sure you go with that one unless you don't mind doing a little extra work to get it to fit. That is the only civic radiator that you can buy that will fit that good with less than 5 minutes worth of time putting it in. I learned the hard way :facepalm::laugh:


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## vwpanzer (Jan 30, 2012)

Ok cool! I'm starting to understand a lot more now. Thanks for the info man I really appreciate it. 
I did see that The MSD 6al-2 does have a programable timing curve, which seems awesome. Once I start gathering all the parts I need Ill post up some pic. Probably asking for some advice again. :thumbup:


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

No problem man! Glad I could help haha


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## FLiGLi84 (Dec 5, 2006)

dougkehl said:


> 1. For the fuel pump use a Carter 4070 pump, also, invest in a low pressure fuel pressure regulator.. These carbs like between 2-4 psi. I run mine at only 2.5/3 psi MAX.
> 
> 2. For the ignition, are you going with an MSD ignition that can aid in supplying a timing curve? Just something to think about if you haven't thought about it yet.
> 
> ...


I have a question on the radiator.... Can you drive with this with enough cooling for the engine? I dont daily my car but when i drive to cars shows or meets i dont want to overheat my engine...


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

FLiGLi84 said:


> I have a question on the radiator.... Can you drive with this with enough cooling for the engine? I dont daily my car but when i drive to cars shows or meets i dont want to overheat my engine...


Easily! I drove this thing hard and drove it every day to and from work from April to August in temps as high as like 95. The only time I really had any issues was if I got stuck in traffic. I upped my fan's cfm rating and that solved that problem. I even drove it 2.5 hours from my house to mk1madness and back 2.5 hours had no trouble doing 80mph nearly the whole drive. You should have no issues


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