# 034EFI Vs SDS



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t*

i have a 02 1.8t that i am swapping into a mk3 and im goin to order sds. now i mon the site and i see the list of what i can get but im unsure of which to get. 
http://sdsefi.com/ofus.htm
here is the site.. anyoen can give me a basic break down of what i need to get to get the 1.8t up adn running. and i also plan on goin with a bigger turbo in the near future. im looking into the new system with data logging. thanx


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*

also looking into the 034efi system as im hearing good things about this also.. any suggestions?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_also looking into the 034efi system as im hearing good things about this also.. any suggestions?

Hey 
I would assume your using the AWP 1.8T with DBW.
You will have to ditch the DBW TB and use either:
*1.* OBD1 2.0 TB (2.75")
*2.* OBD1 VR6 TB (3")
Below you can see a picture of a OB1 2.0 TB








Over SDS you will have laptop tuner ability with 034efi as well as more features like being able to use the stock VR sensor and coil packs.
I paid $1100US for my Stage Ic unit and it seems to be a pretty good choice for the 1.8T guys.
Below are some screen shots(click for bigger image)



If you dont feel like using the stock coil packs you could always use a set of 16V plug wires and 2 Twin Tower Coils from MSD.


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

Nice.. yes the motor is a AWP dbw. its a beetle motor but its the beetle S motor which is the same as the 20th and 337. you almost have me sold on the 034efi especially because of the laptop tunabilty.. 
lemme ask a question off topic a little. on a stock 1.8t with stand alone specifically "034efi" how much more hp can one squeeze out.. is it safe to say that i can achieve more hp with standalone than say a chip.?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_
lemme ask a question off topic a little. on a stock 1.8t with stand alone specifically "034efi" how much more hp can one squeeze out.. is it safe to say that i can achieve more hp with standalone than say a chip.?

The 1.8T Jetta made that using a GT28RS turbo and some other mods .

_Quote, originally posted by *034EFi 1.8T Jetta* »_
*347* Hp 
*343* Ft/Lb of Torque 


As for the Standalone being better than a Chip,Personally I think hell yes but professionally I am not allowed to say that







.
How much power you squeeze out of the 1.8T is all dependant on what modifications you plan on doing to the engine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

well i im gointo be running either a t3t4 or a gt30 sooner than later so its gonna hvae soem pep.. i jstu want to get it installed and running good b4 i upgrade you know


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_well i im gointo be running either a t3t4 or a gt30 sooner than later so its gonna hvae soem pep.. i jstu want to get it installed and running good b4 i upgrade you know

Well you have 2 Options.
*1.* Go through the hassle of using the Stock Harness + ECU for your K03 Turbo Then when you get a little extra $$$ you upgrade the turbo and install a chip (requires you stock ecu + $800?)
*OR*
*2.* Buy Stage Ic ,hook it up, and when you upgrade your Turbo, go for a dyno sension and change your settings. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Your going to be going to the dyno regardless,might as well make it worthwhile


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

yah im def goin standalone whether it be sds or 034efi or whichever.. no way im using stock management.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_yah im def goin standalone whether it be sds or 034efi or whichever.. no way im using stock management.

034EFi Stage Ic http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
When It comes to building the harness I can help you out and with the tuning,034EFi has there own forums so you can go on there,take a couple of screen shots and the guys will help you get a good map.


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## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*

For SDS, you will need:
-SDS EM4-4F with coils
-3 bar MAP sensor
-fuel pump relay (so fuel pump starts/stops when it's supposed to)
- OBD I throttle body
You can use the stock coolant temp sensor, a crank sensor needs to be made (read the manuals from the link below for more info EM4 main and EM4F supplement are the 2 manuals to look at.)
for your big turbo project, larger injectors, bigger fuel pump, are a good idea. 
No need to build a harness since SDS includes a 100% prebuilt plug and play harness.

There are several options like the backlit LCD (lights at night) , fast idle (for cooler atmospheres/if you use AC alot), knock sensing, etc. that you can also buy with the system. 
Some links: 
SDS specifications/information: http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html
SDS programming/user manuals http://www.sdsefi.com/program.html
Pricing 
[URL]http://www.sdsefi.com/prices.html[/url] IM me if you want more info, I can help you 'build' the system you need http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
This spring I will be installing SDS on a 1.8T 350whp Corrado. It'll be lots of fun, and I know it will work out well!
I use SDS on my daily driven Golf 2.0T. I dynoed 232whp/238ft-lbs at 12.5 psi. I drive this car in COLD weather (0ºF to -15ºF every day) the car starts every time! Reliability is perfect. 9,000 miles driven on SDS so far with zero problems.
There are many SDS users around! If you _ever_ have a question, simply posting on the VWVortex, sending me an email or callling SDS will result in getting an immediate answer for your question.
Wizard - do you have 034 installed on your car? Have you had success with it?


_Modified by StevenT at 12:38 PM 1-23-2005_


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (StevenT)*

this is becoming a hard choice. looks like its between sds and the 034efi now.. theyare both pretty much the same price. 034 being a tad cheaper. but the 034's laptop tunability gives it a bigger advantage over the sds.. has anyone had experience with both. pros and cons. this mite not be a lot of money to some ppl but its a decent amount of change and i wnat to make the best purchase for my money. so dont mind if i ask a lot of questions.. thanx for the responses so far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_this is becoming a hard choice. looks like its between sds and the 034efi now.. theyare both pretty much the same price. 034 being a tad cheaper.

@ $1100US you really cant go wrong.

_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_
but the 034's laptop tunability gives it a bigger advantage over the sds.. has anyone had experience with both. pros and cons. this mite not be a lot of money to some ppl but its a decent amount of change 

*raises hand*
About 2-3 years ago we had SDS installed on a Toyota 4A-GE 20V.This engine was not available in NA and fellow SDS users were stumped and really couldnt help me out.Being from the island We had to start from scratch and the only tools we had were thumbs and countless hours of road time in order to get this thing programmed.Now I know that there alot of SDS owners on Vortex and they will obviously help you out with giving you a good base map to start with but in the end we ripped apart the poor Starlet and sold of the parts piece by piece.
Later that year I stumbled on a guy using 034EFi and I was like meh SDS is better.Then he laughed and told me about the advantages and greater features over SDS namely being the ability to use stock sensors and laptop tuner ability.
And Go!

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_For SDS, you will need:
*1.*SDS EM4-4F with coils
*2.*3 bar MAP sensor
*3.*fuel pump relay (so fuel pump starts/stops when it's supposed to)
*4.*OBD I throttle body

Now with 034EFi:
*1.* Not needed,he can use the stock AWP Coils








*2.* Built into the ECU http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
*3.* Use a GPO for this
*4.* Once it has a Cable TB(doesnt matter how many pins the tps has) It will work with 034.

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
You can use the stock coolant temp sensor,

Same with 034efi

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
a crank sensor needs to be made (read the manuals from the link below for more info EM4 main and EM4F supplement are the 2 manuals to look at.)

Nothing needs to be made,Stage Ic works with the stock VR Sensor.No converters needed.Stage IIc works with the Stock Cam Angle Sensor and Stock VR Sensor for Direct Fire http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
for your big turbo project, larger injectors, bigger fuel pump, are a good idea.

As always and do you have a map for every single injector or Turbo available on the market in order to aid in the tuning of the SDS?

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
No need to build a harness since SDS includes a 100% prebuilt plug and play harness.

So SDS makes a "1.8T" Harness now?Didnt know that was available.But yes 034EFi does come with a flying lead harness that you have to adapt the connectors onto.


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
There are several options like the backlit LCD (lights at night) , fast idle (for cooler atmospheres/if you use AC alot), knock sensing, etc. that *you can also buy with the system*.
 
For *Free*









_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
Some links: 
SDS specifications/information: http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html
SDS programming/user manuals http://www.sdsefi.com/program.html
Pricing (I can get you 10% off these prices!) http://www.sdsefi.com/prices.html

Tuning software is available from Javad Shadzi for a trial run in order to learn the system.

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
This spring I will be installing SDS on a 1.8T 350whp Corrado. It'll be lots of fun, and I know it will work out well!

Nice...Steve Soeder is now part of 034 Army and will hopefully put down 500whp. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
I use SDS on my daily driven Golf 2.0T. I dynoed 232whp/238ft-lbs at 12.5 psi. I drive this car in COLD weather (0ºF to -15ºF every day) the car starts every time! Reliability is perfect. 9,000 miles driven on SDS so far with zero problems.
There are many SDS users around! If you _ever_ have a question, simply posting on the VWVortex, sending me an email or callling SDS will result in getting an immediate answer for your question.

That is true,there are alot of users around but until SDS comes out with laptop tunerability then 034EFi is still a better system.

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
Wizard - do you have 034 installed on your car? Have you had success with it?

Yes I have 034EFi Installed in my car,have not had the chance to tune it as yet due to being miles away from the car and changing many parts such as:
Turbo : K-24 >> T03T04E
Manifold : Reverse facing to forward facing
Fueling : Stock to 034EFi
Wait before I continue....do you want me to go eat a watermelon?
P.S. Not trying to be a dick,Keep it Healthy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

nice exactly what i need http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif thast some good info WIZ. this mite turn out to be a good debate as long as it stays clean.. so far the 034 is grabbing my attention a lil more


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_nice exactly what i need http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif thast some good info WIZ. *this mite turn out to be a good debate as long as it stays clean*.. so far the 034 is grabbing my attention a lil more

Thats all I am gearing towards.
I would bet $1100 (money it takes to buy Stage Ic) that at least 4 well known Vortexers will come in here and bash me for talking about SDS when I have never even tuned the system on my car.
But wait....I dont need to tune the system on *MY* car when I have done it on others http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*

I may be installing SDS on a 9 sec turbo Buick - 800-900whp is expected. Specs are available to dispell the 'smoke and mirrors' factor.
Standalone systems are like kleenex: some people like Royale, others Majesta. They all do the job, but different people value different features http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Case in point: I don't need a laptop to tune my car, so I didn't get a system that required a laptop. Other's may desire laptop tuneability. 
For interest ,Microtech (from Australia) has both a handheld programmer and laptop capabilities.
SDS does not make a 'plug and play' 1.8T harness, my mistake. The harness is built by SDS. The harness lengths are standard to all SDS systems (unless you want custom lengths) but it will work with a 1.8T with ease.
Both are fine systems. Reliability was priority one for me, and SDS is proven to be exceptionally reliable.

_Quote »_ do you want me to go eat a watermelon?


Ever read Thomas Carlyle?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
Both are fine systems. Reliability was priority one for me, and SDS is proven to be exceptionally reliable.

And so is 034efi http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
Ever read Thomas Carlyle?


I have No *REASON* to....


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## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (StevenT)*

No debate needed, each person has their system preferences. I will put forth some information:
1) You can use the stock AWP COP (coil on plug) setup with SDS (if you so wish). You can use an aftermarket spark box and coil setup too, it's all in what you want.
2) You can use any cable throttle body with SDS. Mustang 5.0 and OBD I VW throttle bodies are most commonly used becuase they are easily aquired and wired.
3) SDS provides a base map for any engine based on displacement, fuel injector size, and number of cylinders. The map will allow you to start the car and tune. My car started on the first crank with the SDS 'generic' 2.0L 4 cylinder 42lb injectors map.
4) The base SDS system will function without any extra options. The fuel pump relay is not required, though some people use it. You don't need the fast idle solenoid if you don't use your car in cooler climates.
5) The SDS manuals show you how to program and use the system. A quick look at this link shows you the SDS programming basics: http://www.sdsefi.com/program.html
If I wanted a system that was 'better' than SDS, I'd go with DTA.


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

edit: modded to be a nice guy










_Modified by vdubspeed at 1:14 PM 1-23-2005_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_edit: modded to be a nice guy








_Modified by vdubspeed at 1:14 PM 1-23-2005_

Caught it just in time....

_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_wizard - you really have to stop this ****. It's getting annoying. I don't know if you sleep with the owner of 034efi or what but you seem WAY to obsessed with it.

WTF? 
Last I checked this was a Forum.A Question Was asked....And I have the Answer.
I thought I stated above that we should keep the topic clean.Its not even page 2 yet.The way your behaving is as if others dont come on here and ride SDS dick.
034EFi is a good system and I like it.If you dont have anything good to say then dont say anything at all
ok?
And continue...


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

ok lets not get this locked because its a good thread. i should have actually started a sds vs 034 efi thread.. anyway i can change the title


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## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*

Look at it this way...........all these peeps talking about how great 034 is haven't even got their cars up and running yet.........so I have no idea where they get their opinions about reliability and tuning,when they haven't tuned their cars yet,and have not run them long enough to make a opinion on reliability







............where countless others on here have REAL LIFE success with tuning and installing and making hp and,DRIVING their cars reliably with SDS.........
If this is your first stand alone system,you better be well versed in programming,electronics,and configuring OEM sensors to work with the system you choose,and making quick tuning changes on the fly,so you had better have some fast fingers,since a motor will blow up with 1 wrong input very easily......
I have only installed one 1.8T SDS system,and street tuned it around my shop,and guess what?With NO dyno tuning,11.7 afr,and about 18 degrees total advance on a GT30,the car ran 13.5 @111.8 on it's first night out at the track.........on only 13-14 psi,we could not turn it up because at 6500-6750 rpm the clutch would slip (power kept building)and rpm would zing to redline.......the car also trapped 112 that night........needless to say the owner is very pleased and is installing a 02J tranny and performance clutch to cure the slipping.....and I had this car running and at the track in 1 weeks time for install and tuning,imagine what the car will run at 20+ psi,I see a much faster car!........I have YET to see ANYBODY here with 034efi up and running,I just see peeps talking about it....
And the guy I built the Scirocco with SDS for came by yesterday.......he loves his car,runs great,and starts up everytime......
My customers as well as myself have accumulated over 70K miles in driving and only issue we had were bad OEM VW TPS switches(some are already 10-12 years old when we install them)and once replaced,run perfectly. So I know about RELIABILTY......I sometimes forget I even have SDS in my car......runs so damn good.... good enough to strip all the teeth off my transmission 2 Fridays ago at the track! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by TAIVW Boosted-Dubs at 12:44 PM 1-23-2005_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_Look at it this way...........all these peeps talking about how great 034 is haven't even got their cars up and running yet.........so I have no idea where they get their opinions about reliability and tuning,when they haven't tuned their cars yet,and have not run them long enough to make a opinion on reliability









TAI got to Motorgeek.com and post the above.I am not one to post about something unless I myself have experienced it.


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif thanx for the input.. is there anyone that actually has the 034 efi running on a 1.8t??
EDIT: jsut remembered that i already heard of a few 1.8ts runnig efi


_Modified by jok3sta at 3:55 PM 1-23-2005_


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*

I vote for SDS. Just think even though they are closely priced you have to add the fact you have to purchase a laptop to tune the 034.


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_I vote for SDS. Just think even though they are closely priced you have to add the fact you have to purchase a laptop to tune the 034. 


thast tru.. but in my case i can get a laptop free if need be


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## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*

Here's a good story.......I have a car RIGHT NOW in the shop,it is a fully built NewBeetle 2.0 turbo,the car has a EIP kit,and FMU tuning,stock injectors leaned out at 6 psi and only made 155hp on the dyno,the owner was frustrated,so he bought a TEC-2 system.......
This guy is in his 30's ,is a contractor,and he used to be a car stereo tech when younger,and is computer literate,and a very intelligent guy.....runs his own business has $$ well........
He installed the TEC trigger wheel on the Bugs crank pulley,and after trying to figure out the TEC "high tech" laptop programming,he was so boggled and bewildered(I know,you are going to say he is "stupid",like myself for not being a computer nerd and figuring it out...lol)that he immediately stopped the install because he realised;
1. He is not a tuner,and runs a business so he doesn't have 9 hours a day to figure out the laptop system to get the car RUNNING,let alone tune it for power
2.The laptop system had so many features he will never use,that it was hard to sort through all the BS
3.He SIMPLY wanted to get the car running and making more HOP than it was and RELIABLY without a bunch of crap.......ie;if something went wrong having to get his tuner to correct things
4.He saw all the cars I have buiklt at the track and running around Hawaii,actually DRIVING with NO issues....
5.He will be getting his car back next week fully tuned and hitting over 250 hp......
I am trying to help you(and others) avoid the mistake of getting in over your head,with internet heresay,and hype.........IF you have a VERY knowledgable tuner in your area that knows or is willing to learn the system you want,then go for it,but IF YOU are doing the TUNE and INSTALL,then GOOD LUCK!! Anybody want to buy a Tec2?? It is for sale


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## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*

You know what Wizard? I am not going to visit Motorgeek....because it has nothing to do with YOUR experience INSTALLING AND TUNING YOUR CAR........when you get yours up and running and are making way more hp on the same setup than others using SDS and put some real world mileage on it,then it is all heresay.....


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_I have YET to see ANYBODY here with 034efi up and running,I just see peeps talking about it...

again I must sigh to this....because they dont post in the Volkswagen section does not mean they dont exist.









_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif thanx for the input.. is there anyone that actually has the 034 efi running on a 1.8t??

Yes there are....
*1.* Diman24 : 2.0 8V Turbo
*2.* Audi4u : 1.8 20V Turbo
*3.* That Carguy : 1.8T Jetta Entered in 1.8T Challenge
034EFi has there own forums where everyone posts the power numbers etc etc.No need to come on vortex and cross post.You guys are comparing apples with oranges and are posting opinions ,not facts.I have experienced both systems in question so I can give my findings on them.
TAIVW if you have used /tuned /installed 034EFi on any car I will gladly stop posting http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_You know what Wizard? I am not going to visit Motorgeek....because it has nothing to do with YOUR experience INSTALLING AND TUNING YOUR CAR........when you get yours up and running and are making way more hp on the same setup than others using SDS and put some real world mileage on it,then it is all heresay..... 

Thats a poor Argument,Dont mind...motorgeek will come to you.(stay tuned)
SDS is still standalone so once you have optimum tuning then no matter SDS/Haltech/Motec/Gems/Emerald/034EFi....*You WILL MAKE THE SAME POWER*.


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## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

Everytime someone asks about SDS you HAVE to pipe in and say 034 is better...........well HAVE YOU got YOUR CAR running YET?I can post about 30+ peeps with SDS...........but I won't it is pointless........BTW when this kid and others you recommend this system too are boggled beyond belief with install/configuring/tuning will you or these other guys fly to his house to help him out?
How about this.....man you guys GOT TO get the AEM system,this guy on Honda-tech made 700hp with it,it is the best!! I haven't installed mine yet,but this guy did,and I know it is the best because he made 700 hp with it!!It has wideband tuning,datalogging,laptop programmability,I am sure this is the best system for you........I casn't wait until I get mine!! lol 
We know AEM is a good system,as well as many others,but that is what you sound like somebody hyping a system you PERSONALLY have never even got up and running,it has been what? 2 years now?Even if you are still building your car,then how come you have not sold and installed it in other peeps cars around your area if it is so great? And you have to push it off in here


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_Everytime someone asks about SDS you HAVE to pipe in and say 034 is better...........well HAVE YOU got YOUR CAR running YET?

Why does my car need to be running to know how the system works?You think everyone lives in a shell?This is 2005 man come on...
As for the pipe in comment?You SDS guys think that your system is god's gift to earth.Maybe I am just another moron that doesnt like the system and for that you will continuely cram up my rear for my opinion on the system(which by the way is based on facts).

_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_
I can post about 30+ peeps with SDS...........but I won't it is pointless........BTW when this kid and others you recommend this system too are boggled beyond belief with install/configuring/tuning will you or these other guys fly to his house to help him out?
How about this.....man you guys GOT TO get the AEM system,this guy on Honda-tech made 700hp with it,it is the best!! I haven't installed mine yet,but this guy did,and I know it is the best because he made 700 hp with it!!It has wideband tuning,datalogging,laptop programmability,I am sure this is the best system for you........I casn't wait until I get mine!! lol 
We know AEM is a good system,as well as many others,but that is what you sound like somebody hyping a system 

Thats a pathetic example because :
*1.* Ive never used AEM so I dont know jack about it.
*2.* You have never used 034efi...I have
*3.* We both have used SDS therefore we can agree that we disagree.

_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_
you PERSONALLY have never even got up and running,it has been what? 2 years now?Even if you are still building your car,then how come you have not sold and installed it in other peeps cars around your area if it is so great? And you have to push it off in here









You must suffer from Dyslexia.I wouldnt have bought the system for my car If I didnt know how to tune it.....








As for installing it on others cars,I only had the liberty of doing it on one other project car as I am only home 4 months a year.So you can blow that "you recommending a system without knowing anything about it "out to Honalulu
NOW ANSWER THIS QUESTION and stop with the BS Bickering.
*WHAT DOES SDS OFFER that 034EFi DOES NOT*.


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
NOW ANSWER THIS QUESTION and stop with the BS Bickering.
*WHAT DOES SDS OFFER that 034EFi DOES NOT*.

easy answer...
Simple Digital Systems offers complete control of ignition and fuel that can be running OUT OF THE BOX without having to download software or get a new battery pack for the cheap laptop you bought on eBay.
SDS is a "simple digital system."
This shiz is so easy I had my wife tuning the car in the passenger seat the other day to get the AFR to 12:1. 
And when you use SDS you can get all your VW questions and SDS related questions answered on one forum. No need to forum swap and track people down.
When it comes to standalone...I personally wanted a system I could tune and then forget about. If I do decide I want to change a pararameter...I just reach in the glovebox and do it. No need to let Windows load and watch my battery pack drain while cruising down the road.
I'm not saying SDS>034efi at all. I'm saying SDS is simple. 
HTH,
Jason


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
easy answer...
Simple Digital Systems offers complete control of ignition and fuel that can be running OUT OF THE BOX without having to download software or get a new battery pack for the cheap laptop you bought on eBay.
SDS is a "simple digital system."
This shiz is so easy I had my wife tuning the car in the passenger seat the other day to get the AFR to 12:1. 
And when you use SDS you can get all your VW questions and SDS related questions answered on one forum. No need to forum swap and track people down.
When it comes to standalone...I personally wanted a system I could tune and then forget about. If I do decide I want to change a pararameter...I just reach in the glovebox and do it. No need to let Windows load and watch my battery pack drain while cruising down the road.
I'm not saying SDS>034efi at all. I'm saying SDS is simple. 
HTH,
Jason

Thank You for that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
p.s. Laptop Batteries = 150 Mins


----------



## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

It doesn't really matter what standalone system you go with. In the end, they all accomplish the same thing. By that I mean get your engine running based on MAP, TPS, RPM. Everything else is hardware, and hardware's the easy part. Compared to what it takes to get a forced induction car running *well* on OEM motronic, installing even the most difficult standalone system is not only going to be easier, but your car will run better in a shorter amount of time than it takes to figure out "piggyback this, piggyback that, clamp this voltage, disconnect that, clear codes, reconnect, re-adapt, tune piggyback, etc, etc." I could write a book on trying to make motronic do anything besides suck. 
Even the most basic standalone system is going to give you better results than Motronic because *you* can control it. You don't control Motronic; it controls you. 
That said, the decision is up to the user. Laptop, or no Laptop? What kind of support can I get for this setup? Does it use the sensors I like? Is the programming basic, or can I control each and every pulse of a single injector? 
Think about what you're capable of and go from there. Don't get in over your head, cause that sucks. Get something you can tune, and try your darndest to rely on noone but yourself. That way you can't get frustrated with anyone else's availability to help. 
Evan


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (2kjettaguy)*

Exactly...... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif BTW Wizard,I never said "SDS is better".......I always point to;
1.EASE of installation
2.EASE of programming
3.THE BEST tech support out there,from SDS and its users
4.A unflappable reliability record from personal experience
My point is in this debate is you are recommending something that is VERY technical in its programming and configuring to FIRST TIME turbo car builders.......these peeps (often times)don't work on cars enough to know WHAT they are doing,let alone install,configure and tune ANY system........most want reliable hp.........I know I can figure out other systems,but I have great success with SDS (as well as MANY others,way more than the 4 VW guys you listed)and it has worked for many other first time turbo builders.....you can say it is not as "high tech" but whatever......power is power.


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_It doesn't really matter what standalone system you go with. In the end, they all accomplish the same thing. By that I mean get your engine running based on MAP, TPS, RPM. Everything else is hardware, and hardware's the easy part. Compared to what it takes to get a forced induction car running *well* on OEM motronic, installing even the most difficult standalone system is not only going to be easier, but your car will run better in a shorter amount of time than it takes to figure out "piggyback this, piggyback that, clamp this voltage, disconnect that, clear codes, reconnect, re-adapt, tune piggyback, etc, etc." I could write a book on trying to make motronic do anything besides suck. 
Even the most basic standalone system is going to give you better results than Motronic because *you* can control it. You don't control Motronic; it controls you. 
That said, the decision is up to the user. Laptop, or no Laptop? What kind of support can I get for this setup? Does it use the sensors I like? Is the programming basic, or can I control each and every pulse of a single injector? 
Think about what you're capable of and go from there. Don't get in over your head, cause that sucks. Get something you can tune, and try your darndest to rely on noone but yourself. That way you can't get frustrated with anyone else's availability to help. 
Evan

thats probably the most sense ive seen on here so far.


----------



## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*

In reply to Thomas's last post I'll say this:
When I first did my turbo project I should have gone standalone. However, I was 19, *CHEAP*, and thought I knew it all. Unfortunately I learned engine tuning the hard way. I fooled with a piggyback, a wideband, and a Vag-Com for a year and blew some engines to pieces doing so. I screwed with Motronic until I was blue in the face - and it never made the power it should have, and I could never get over the little stumbles, stalls, and inconsistent pulls.
By the time I had the money to go standalone, I was so sick of the turbo setup that I had no motivation to do it. I didn't even want it to run anymore and I parted it all out. Frustration got the better of me. I'd still have a sweet 2.0T to this day if I had gone with a simple standalone system from day one. 
*Don't be like me:*
Don't be cheap, don't think you know it all, and do it right the first time
(frugal and cheap are 2 different things)
Evan


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (2kjettaguy)*

Evan,thank you for that honest reply from your own experience.......








I know a lot of peeps think I am a joker,I don't care though,I have good resuklts and I build solid street cars,that I can be proud of.
So have Steven T and Eurocco T,and BOTH have started tuning businesses around a solid stand alone system that has given excellent results,Marc opened up his own tuning shop(nice to have a SDS streetcar that runs 11'[email protected],helps out the rep a bit







) and StevenT is now out there as well as many other shops that carry it.
As for me,I am a honest person and will say that honestly,I have blown enough motors that I would not want it to happen to anybody else,and have seen/read about the frustration first time turbo builders encounter.....all I am trying to do is share in my success with it....in fact my little one man shop is always busy,I always have a project to build and a lot of this has to do with SDS,and me being able to tune fast and reliable street VW turbos.............I know I ain't the "best" tuner out there by far......like I said,I am sure some think I am a joker,that is cool,but this joker just bought this car for my wife in cash.........thank you SDS!







I appreciate the extra income and business and reputation you helped me achieve!

















Audi 1.8T A4,black leather,and the wife looks happy!








And I know Steven T and MArc are doing well too! Cheers gentleman!


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*

keep em coming.. any way moderators can change the topic to SDS vs 034 EFI i think that suits it better


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

i do not want to touch the 034 subject with a frozen rope. 
however, i would like to point out that @ 1100 there are quite a few options more powerfull then 034 Ic
shop around very carefully and even if a feature is advertised check the way it is implemented there are some extremely ghetto rig ways of doing things.


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*

I gotta throw names too...
StevenT had a killer g/b on SDS, euroroccoT has a badass 11sec mk1 on SDS, and Thomas aka TAIVW has answered 1 million questions from me.
Agtronic has been a great source of SDS info too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
okay...I'm opening a tuning shop in town now







j/k








Jason


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

what other options are there for 1100.. i would love to know cuz im in search


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

microtech, genboard v3, UMS soon is waaaaaaaaaay under that price *and more poweful* 
there are a lot. 
hell for the price of the SDS with all the goodies your talking about some real systems... Haltech e6x is right there price wise, autronic smc is close if you actually shop out a qoute...


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

nice i guess ill be looking into those also


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (jok3sta)*

bump for topic change


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*

Thanks *2kJettaguy* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_ 
Audi 1.8T A4,black leather,and the wife looks happy!









Now what is an ugly basterd like you doing with a Pretty lady like that








This topic was rather healthy and TAI you may not have called 034EFi and ****ty system but you certainly tried to imply it.Whatever the case the author made a thread on the 034EFi Forum's and you can directly go to it here and see what Javad Shadzi himself had to say.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just checked out the 034 website. The 2 things that really bother me are that pressure is in kpa and temps are in C. I tried to understand kpa in reference to inches of vacuum and PSI. It requires more time than I wanted to invest in making a conversion chart. Celsius to F is easier but still not what Im used to. 
2 of those reasons will keep me using SDS. 034 also implies that SDS trigger magnets are inferior but there are thousands of people using that style set up without problems.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Just checked out the 034 website. The 2 things that really bother me are that pressure is in kpa and temps are in C. I tried to understand kpa in reference to inches of vacuum and PSI. It requires more time than I wanted to invest in making a conversion chart. Celsius to F is easier but still not what Im used to.
 
KPa is a more accurate system to measure pressure.Tuning the car with the "BAR" system will help you better.
*1 BAR = 14.7Psi = 100KPa*

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
2 of those reasons will keep me using SDS. 034 also implies that SDS trigger magnets are inferior but there are thousands of people using that style set up without problems. 

Thats true but its "extra $$". Jok3sta I assume is looking for the easiest way to install the 1.8T into his MK3 shell.
with both Standalone's he will still have to:
*1.* Use the fly By Harness and build weld on connectors onto it.
*2.* Tune It either using the Handheld Programmer or a Laptop.
*3.* Find a Dyno unless you have lots of time to drive around
Now if he went SDS he would have to:
*1.* Build a Crank Trigger system to tell the SDS where TDC is.
*2.* Use some of the hardware/sensors from SDS themselves.


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

not wanting to convert units is understandable, but cmon, what would it take, an hour to get used to the other units? 
i don't even use standard much anymore because everything i do at school is metric


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

The crank magnets take like 30 mins to do for a first timer. Also, I use all stock VW sensors with SDS. The stock Mk3 IAT or 1.8T IAT work so does the stock coolant temp sensor. Every other sensor is provided in the kit. So your argument about "it uses stock sensor" doesn't hold much ground with me. The only thing I see that I like about 034 is the fact you can use stock coil packs.
Either way, it comes down to what you feel comfy with or what you like. I like the SDS, takes me like 5 mins to get a car to start and drive with it. Arguing which one is better will never end because its personal preference. 
Its like saying blonde's are better than red heads in bed.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_The crank magnets take like 30 mins to do for a first timer. Also, I use all stock VW sensors with SDS. The stock Mk3 IAT or 1.8T IAT work so does the stock coolant temp sensor. Every other sensor is provided in the kit. So your argument about "it uses stock sensor" doesn't hold much ground with me. The only thing I see that I like about 034 is the fact you can use stock coil packs.

Does SDS work with the Stock VR Sensor on *ABA/AEB/AWP/AWW/Etc* engines...?

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
Either way, it comes down to what you feel comfy with or what you like. I like the SDS, takes me like 5 mins to get a car to start and drive with it. Arguing which one is better will never end because its personal preference. 

Thats pretty much all it boils down to.Noone on this board is going to say well yes "i spent $1000US+ on a system and its garbage".Everyone is going to give props to the system they bought.I only offered the "034EFi has this whereas SDS does not"

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
Its like saying blonde's are better than red heads in bed. 

They are...then again my opinion is rather biased


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
They are...then again my opinion is rather biased


















I don't discriminate, as long as they're hot and freaky


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
I don't discriminate, as long as they're hot and freaky









I still have the scars...not fun


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

Dam Dude,quit being so dramatic!lol...........I NEVER SAID efi03....... whatever is.was "sh*tty"......I already said numerous times you are asking for trouble if you think even 1/2 of these peeps can pin-out DBW throttle bodies and activate drive by wire,and configure and synch cam/crank sensors,and then tune the car for max power...........if it was so easy,there would be more than 4 guys you can name with VW's using it.............I have no experience with 0434efi so how can I comment on it?But I can say t will be much more difficult for the average end user......a point you seem to try to avoid and deflect qwith drama!Tell me that these 19-25 year old guys building their first turbo car will all be able to re-engineer the electronics and tune it themselves.......it's so easy right?That is why there is a 300+whp turbo car in every turbo guys driveway right?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_if it was so easy,there would be more than 4 guys you can name with VW's using it.. 

Drama?I must be wearing a Pink Leotard.....your the only one getting on all panzy about it.Sorry If my opinion cuts the amount of bread going on your table.
In at least 3 previous threads you got on my ass about my opinion on SDS.Right or Wrong?
I told you allready to go on the Motorgeek forums and check out the members who are running 034EFi.Javad himself can count off 10 1.8T converts that are on the system that he himself installed.He doesnt know how many others are out there that are using the system on a 1.8T engine.I dont make it my daily life routine to find out WHO runs 034EFi on there car.I know I am and I know a couple of others that do.
You want to compare Laptop tunerability with hand held keypad.(WTF?)
You want to compare a system that is on par with haltech/motec/etc with SDS.As stated numourous times if your going bang for buck then 034EFi is a better system hands down.Oh and your opinion is rather biased since you sell and install SDS systems.So does Euro roccoT,B4S,etc.
Its time for your beatches to Get real....







(no offense of course)
p.s. How Hawaii?


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

Well,I will be getting another SDS car up and running this week while you tell other peeps how great it will be when you get yours up and running!







Life is short,time to boost!Dam,at the rate you are building your car,you will have to convert it to Hydrogen since there might be no more gasoline available that far in the future!








Dam,I crack myself up!
Get that car running already,lay down 400whp on yur 8V 4 banger and shut me up already


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_ Well,I will be getting another SDS car up and running this week while you tell other peeps how great it will be when you get yours up and running!









So I must have 034EFi Installed and tuned on my car to give advice on the system?Hmmm I guess I need to stop doing other installs....









_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_
Life is short,time to boost!Dam,at the rate you are building your car,you will have to convert it to Hydrogen since there might be no more gasoline available that far in the future!








Dam,I crack myself up!
Get that car running already,lay down 400whp on yur 8V 4 banger and shut me up already









Time is always against me







Unless you feel like giving me a Diploma








And its 500Whp 8V silly http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


----------



## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Javad himself can count off 10 1.8T converts that are on the system that he himself installed.

I know of atleast 15 1.8T SDS equipped systems I have sold. That's just a small sampling of the 49 VW equipped SDS systems that I've sold








Scirocco 20v: You can use the coil on plug modules from the AWW/AWP motors. They have to be wired slightly differently, that's all.
034 would be an interesting system to fool with some day, but I'm more interested in the EMS 4424 Stinger which retails for $885.
Can 034 be batch or bank to bank fired in addition to being sequential?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
Can 034 be batch or bank to bank fired in addition to being sequential?


Sorry Steven the above has me stumped.By Bank to bank do you mean the coils?As in wasted Spark?
Stage Ic is typically a Wasted Spark system now I had bought 4 coils before buying my system(was supposed to go Stage IIc) but ended up going Stage Ic.A quick phone call to javad assured me that the drivers could handle powering 4 coils with wasted spark.Below is a picture of them.








Another thing.How much in total will SDS cost to get a crate 1.8T engine running?Do a total break down of the cost if you dont mind.
To work the coils,vr sensor etc etc.
Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_Life is short,time to boost!Dam,at the rate you are building your car,you will have to convert it to Hydrogen since there might be no more gasoline available that far in the future! 






















I LOVE THIS FORUM!!!!






















wizard - you keep referring people to this motorgeek site so I took the bait and the thread got THREE replies. WOW...a whooping three replies. Yeah sure...the owner of 034efi replied BUT...the other guy that did was worthless.
Let's not play the numbers game(referring to how many SDS users there are over 034efi) because that shiz will get shot down fast.
I really don't understand what is so great about using stock sensors anyway? SDS supplies what you need and the crank magnets, though not factory, only require you to drill three small holes.
*IF YOU ARE BUILDING A TURBO CAR FOR YOUR FIRST TIME...I PROMISE DRILLING THREE SMALL HOLES WILL THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES*
And I think Evan already said this but...
It doesn't matter what standalone you have...you will be able to make the SAME hp once tuned correctly. With a simple standalone system...you're just going to get it tuned sooner.
Jason


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
And I think Evan already said this but...
It doesn't matter what standalone you have...you will be able to make the SAME hp once tuned correctly. With a simple standalone system...you're just going to get it tuned sooner.
Jason

Nope...that would be me about 20 posts ago...

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
SDS is still standalone so once you have optimum tuning then no matter SDS/Haltech/Motec/Gems/Emerald/034EFi....*You WILL MAKE THE SAME POWER*.


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
wizard - you keep referring people to this motorgeek site so I took the bait and the thread got THREE replies. WOW...a whooping three replies. Yeah sure...the owner of 034efi replied BUT...*the other guy that did was worthless*.


Woohoo, nice thing to say about a guy that can write more code than you will ever be able to.
034EFi > SDS
Get over it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Woohoo, nice thing to say about a guy that can write more code than you will ever be able to.
034EFi > SDS
Get over it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Woohoo, nice thing to say about a guy that can write more code than you will ever be able to.
034EFi > SDS
Get over it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

wow...writing code...and that's cool because???
I have a turbo 16vT that runs everyday and starts in 14degree weather. My car is kicking ass instead of bench racing. f*uck writing codes. Start making HP.
Yes I have SDS, no it's not the best.
I've been over it.
Finish your car,
Jason


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
Yes I have SDS, no it's not the best.
I've been over it.

Thank you for that....thats all I wanted to hear.034EFi is on a level with Haltech/Motec/Emeralds/DTA/etc. I wonder what would have happened if this was a DTA vs SDS if you guys would be cramming down nycvr6 and cabzilla's ass.
For the extra $200US or whatever 034 has more features and all around better package.I cat believe this is even being debated at all.

_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
Finish your car,


You must have a Hard-on for my car because you keep bringing it up.Why does my car come into every topic, it will get finished when I return home after this semester.If it makes you feel better ill put a picture of you on my engine bay as my #1 fan.
Thanks for the hating... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

And Back to the topic @ hand.Lets not get the topic locked.TAI,vdub,steven... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
*034EFi VS SDS*
What benefits does each system have over each other.
and go....


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

Oh man.....can't we all just let it go?
Pick the one you like, and use it







.
Simple!


----------



## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_By Bank to bank do you mean the coils?As in wasted Spark? 

Sorry, I should have been more specific, bank to bank, sequential and batch fired are all methods of fuel injection.
I meant: 
Can 034 fire fuel injectors by batch or bank to bank in addition to sequential firing injectors sequentially?
I'll price a system later. I have other things to do right now.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
Can 034 fire fuel injectors by batch or bank to bank in addition to sequential firing injectors sequentially?

034EFi will fire them in whatever pattern you want at any crank angle you want.It all depends how you set up the config screen http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
I'll price a system later. I have other things to do right now.

ok


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_If it makes you feel better ill put a picture of you on my engine bay as my #1 fan.

to damn funny.








peace,
Jason


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (vdubspeed)*

Wizard,you are lucky you don't live in Hawaii,I would find you,get you drunk,and make you pass out............and the next morning you would wake up with a HUGE "I love SDS" tattoo right on your chest......and maybe throw a "anchor"on that chest as well.......maybe also a tattoo of some "dice" or a "57'Chevy" or something cool......yep that is what I would do.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*









talk about tough love.
I would just run you over with my car....034EFi Powah Beatch.Take that to Maui


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*

"I love SDS" tattoo.
That's the funniest thing EVA!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
to damn funny.











_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_"I love SDS" tattoo.
That's the funniest thing EVA!

someone should get this guy a Red Nose


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_someone should get this guy a Red Nose









so I laugh a lot








you gotta admit though...it's funny getting all hyped up about standalones.
I'm going to go cuddle with my SDS programmer now.
SDS>the world
Jason


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
you gotta admit though...it's funny getting all hyped up about standalones.


Especially when they remind you of this...








Wiz > SDS > Jason > The World.
*034EFi*...dont leave home without it


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*

I cant say anything about the 034 vs SDS but all i can say is that there's people with SDS that went/are going over to HOLLEY.
thanks








Paul


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (killa)*

Im sticking with a carb! Best way to fuel period!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Im sticking with a carb! Best way to fuel period! 

Ditto!







...what you say partner?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_I cant say anything about the 034 vs SDS but all i can say is that there's people with SDS that went/are going over to HOLLEY.


You would have made 100whp more if you had intake air temp correction. Heck probably even more if you didn't max out your MAP sensor as well. Linearize my OI#QU$.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_

They are...then again my opinion is rather biased

















If these girls were named SDS and 034efi... 
I would rather go CIS















Just adding this to my recent topics, carry on boys


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (leebro61)*

The one on the left looks like she can suck a big one...


----------



## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

i dont understand why people turn **** into wars .... run what ur confortable with and stop breaking ur head thats it


----------



## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

ps the 2 girls are rotten


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_The one on the left looks like she can suck a big one...


Smuts


----------



## HtotheZ (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Scirocco20v)*

is there some sort of thread or website with a compilation of all the info you need to know about SDS? i want to learn everything there is to know about it. "SDS for dummies" anyone?


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (HtotheZ)*

Call Racetech aka SDS manufacturer and ask if they could send you their instruction manual. It has everything youll ever want to know about installing and tips on tuning.


----------



## Sleepy Mk1 (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Scirocco20v)*

90% of it is online...www.sdsefi.com


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blak Golf* »_ps the 2 girls are rotten









You would know







...
I prefer to pay your Montreal a visit every now and again and reek havoc
















For info on 034EFi check out there site,more than enough or you can email Javad Shadzi directly with your questions. at *[email protected]*
StevenT do you have a price list of everything needed to make the 1.8T work with SDS?Thanks


----------



## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

come to montreal and be my guest my gf ****s on does two girls







no kiddding


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blak Golf* »_come to montreal and be my guest my gf ****s on does two girls







no kiddding









count me in dude...i am there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Fusilier (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I run a 034 IIC system on my car with good results and I'm happy with the system. This is my motor








Javad's car is quite impressive with an extremely flat fuel curve while still making 450 hp uncorrected at the wheels. His AF ratio is like a flat line. Very impressive.
Run whatever the heck you guys want, we're all VAG enthusiasts







But there's nothing wrong with 034 and there are plenty of cars using it that are on the road and racetrack. 
James


----------



## audifreakjim (Dec 17, 2004)

Nice car James.
Christ, you guys are missing the big picture. 8v, 10v, 16v, 20v, 4cyl, 5cyl, 8 cyl, they're all vastly different motors and have very different requirements for making big power. Ease of tuning goes like this:
1. 5v/cyl motors
2. 4v motors
3. 2v motors.
It's much easier to squeeze power out of a 5v or 4v motor because the CC are SOOO much better than the 2v/cyl motors. Because of this, your A/F and timing doesn't need to be nearly as accurate. On a 2v motor, you literally have to run on the ragged edge of knock to keep the power up there. Now, no system that has 1 magnet per every other CYL for a trigger is going to be accurate enough to pull it off. You really need a degree based system that uses a trigger wheel like Motronic, Motec, Autronic, or 034EFI. Add to that the people who want to direct fire a 5cyl motor and your choices narrow down pretty quick. Having 4 cylinders opens up the door much more, but it still all depends on your app.
How do you think car companies are getting the power out of these new cars that have 11:1 CR on pump gas? 9.8:1 CR and turbos? Advanced electronics and better CC design is how.
034 will let you run 4,5,6,8 cyl motors COP, all from the same ECU very accurately. SDS will come close with 4,6,8 wasted spark and easy programming. If all you want is a basic fuel and ign system that's easy to tune, then get SDS. You'll still hit power levels that will require something more accurate on the 20v, but just not as soon. Honestly, going to a system like SDS is a pretty big step back from the factory system in every way in regards to accuracy, knock sensing and intelligence. 034EFI is still a step back in terms of knock sensing, but at least you retain the accuracy.
BTW, don't hold your breath for UMS, I've been waiting to beat on it for years now....
A couple of features I like on my 034EFI is the closed loop idle control, and the dual map option that allows you to change programs at the flick of a switch.
Yes, I have 034EFI IIC, yes it's running, yes, the car runs 12's, and breaks quattro transmissions. Not bad for an old school 10v motor I'd say.
Wiz isn't going to be running a 20v, it will be an 8v so I'd say he made the right choice. For the original poster, if all your going to do is a bigger turbo, then SDS will be all you need.


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Fusilier)*























That audi motor is the hotness!!!! 
Is that two wastegates I see!
more specs please James http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
And Jim - that was probably the most informative stuff I've read in a long time. 
Keep the info flowing...
Jason 



_Modified by vdubspeed at 1:52 PM 1-25-2005_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*

Thanks for your input James and Jim,much appreciated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
This topic has reached far corners of the globe.Called a friend this morning to order a part for my engine and he told me that I was in the spot light the other night pertaining to the SDS crowd.(this is a guy that doesnt even have email...)
Please remember guys the author is looking for a standalone system and its clear that he knows his choices (SDS or 034EFi...see titlle)
I merely offered the advantages of 034EFi over SDS.It was the Wiz fan club that decided to chime in and give there input based on personal opinions rather than professional ones.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

If you guys want to compare HP,checkout the SDS website and project page,look at the twin turbo V-8 Chevy S-10,10 sec. daily driver,and others on there.......as far as VAG cars,remember Chris Green making over 500whp and running 10 sec.on his VR turbo......as well as Paul Wolf,10 sec. 16V turbo VW.......there COUNTLESS SDS cars out there making reliable hp every day.....


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

"It's much easier to squeeze power out of a 5v or 4v motor because the CC are SOOO much better than the 2v/cyl motors. Because of this, your A/F and timing doesn't need to be nearly as accurate. On a 2v motor, you literally have to run on the ragged edge of knock to keep the power up there." 
thats just assuming that 4 and 5 valve guys don't simply have higher power goals. lol. 
lots of people have made tons of power on SDS, even N/A cars with huge rpm. i don't like sds either (damn gameboy) but it does work ok. 
hell, we're making plenty of power out of factory honda ecu's and there triggering system isn't much more advanced then that of sds. lol.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_If you guys want to compare HP,checkout the SDS website and project page,look at the twin turbo V-8 Chevy S-10 

There's also plenty of chevy's running single and twin turbos on holley systems, 1000+hp








hth
Paul


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

lol, i've heard of a 10 second chevy using turbo with a dual stage wet nitrous setup for fuel management... just the wet side of the nitrous setup.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_If you guys want to compare HP, 

Why would we want to compare HP when both systems should do the same job on any engine once tuning is optimum.Your an SDS dealer,Please give me a price quote for a non-laptop tuneable standalone system. aka SDS.
I would the total price for the converters/magents/software etc to get an *AWP 1.8T Engine* up and going.Please do a breakdown of parts for me if you dont mind.Thanks much.


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## HtotheZ (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Call Racetech aka SDS manufacturer and ask if they could send you their instruction manual. It has everything youll ever want to know about installing and tips on tuning. 



_Quote, originally posted by *Sleepy Mk1* »_90% of it is online...www.sdsefi.com

thanks guys, ive started to look into it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yayyyyyy arguments


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## Fusilier (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_






















That audi motor is the hotness!!!! 
Is that two wastegates I see!
more specs please James http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Jason 


Its a Audi KW block from a Sport Quattro with RR 20V head.
Lehmann Intake manifold from an Audi S1, Lehmann Exhaust Manifold from a 86 Pikes Peak Car. Audi K27 #7 hotside with K28 3050 Compressor coldside. Sport Quattro fan. S1 intercooler. 
2.144 liters. 8:1 CR. 1.6 bar boost. Chasis is A2 spec LWB quattro.
2650 lbs empty. More specs and pictures on my website.
James


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Why would we want to compare HP when both systems should do the same job on any engine once tuning is optimum.Your an SDS dealer,Please give me a price quote for a non-laptop tuneable standalone system. aka SDS.
I would the total price for the converters/magents/software etc to get an *AWP 1.8T Engine* up and going.Please do a breakdown of parts for me if you dont mind.Thanks much.


If you buy the EM 4F system w/ SDS providing the coolant temp and IAT sensor its $1249 from their site. We all know Steven T has had group buys that blow that price out of the water. 
Im sure the system will be less if you use the stock 1.8t CTS, o2 and IAT sensors. 
If you want a break down check out the site yourself http://www.sdsefi.com


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*









*$1249* for what!?!?!?1


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## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_








*$1249* for what!?!?!?1


Pretty much everything you need minus TPS sensor(65),Map sensor(50 for 3bar) and Coolant , Airtemp both change but you can use stock just got to let them know your running bosch and not GM sensors


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (SSj4G60)*

thanx for the inputs. im reading all of this so dont think u r wasting your breathes lol


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## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (jok3sta)*

This is the complete list of requirements for a 1.8T motorm you need NOTHING else.
$1179 SDS EM4-4F with coil driver but without coils (wired to use COP setup)
$90 from SDS for a 3 bar MAP (or get one from GM for ~$60).
$1180 shipped to your front door via overnight FedEx is the final price. Along with a solid standalone system you get the best support in the business. 
You need an OBD I throttle body, or a 3 wire TPS which would run you $40 or $50.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
$1180 shipped to your front door via overnight FedEx is the final price. Along with a solid standalone system you get the best support in the business.

*FROM SDS for $1270 you get:*
*1.* SDS Standalone
*2.* 3 BAR Map sensor
*3.* Hand Held Progammer
*4.* Online Support 
*5.* Flying Lead Harness
*6.* Crank-Trigger Setup
*7.* A Make up MAP simulating his modifications.
*FROM 034EFi for $1100US you get:*
*1.*034EFi Stage Ic
*2.*034EFi 1.8T MAP as a base map
*3.*Online Support via Motorgeek Forums.
*4.* No additional sensors or crank magnets needed.
*5.* Flying lead harness 
*6.* Full Laptop Tuner ability
*7.* Ease of Sharing maps with fellow 034EFi users since they can be stored as pc files.
For both systems he will need a 3 PIN OBD1 TB either from a VR6 (3 inches) or 2.0 (2.75 inches) and adapt them to his manifold.
If Jok3sta is really not to keen on building his own harness.034EFi could custom build him one making a system for his applications really "*plug and play*" where all he will have to do is:
*1.* Provide a 12V+ Switched IGn source to the ecu
*2.* Hook up the Tach wire.
*3.* Hook up the fuel pump relay
*4.* Crank Engine. 
Now that is "*Simple*"


----------



## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Readjust some of your math values please. 
I said $1180 shipped to your door. Where did $1270 come from? 
SDS has online and phone support. Through SDS, me, TAI VW, or any of the other dealers.
SDS includes all sensors. 
My price is shipped-to-your-door. How much does it cost to ship 034? 
Add the price of a laptop for 034. Not everyone has a laptop.

I'd like to try out an 034 system to see what they are like.. I'd take Microtech over 034.. laptop tunability with a handheld programmer option, the best of both worlds.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
I said $1180 shipped to your door. Where did $1270 come from? 

Sorry one person was saying a figure and you were saying another.Forgot you were a dealer.

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
SDS has online and phone support. Through SDS, me, TAI VW, or any of the other dealers.

So does 034EFi http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
SDS includes all sensors.

I thought all the sensors were on the engine.

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
My price is shipped-to-your-door. How much does it cost to ship 034? 

$1100US + Shipping?

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
Add the price of a laptop for 034. Not everyone has a laptop.

$100 from any computer store.Can pick up a decent Windows 98 unit for a really good price.College kids getting rid of them all the time.

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
I'd like to try out an 034 system to see what they are like.. I'd take Microtech over 034.. laptop tunability with a handheld programmer option, the best of both worlds.


Sure,Contact Javad and tell him your plans.


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## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Correct, all sensors are on the engine. You can probably save $50 from not getting the SDS sensors. Thanks for reminding me! 
So about $1130 shipped, perhaps a bit less for SDS.
Perhaps I need another project car to put 034 on, anyone want to donate?


----------



## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: (StevenT)*

Man, if you guys are nickel and diming youre standalone install, you shouldn't even be turboing your car. 
Expect to spend some money, and spend it. 
I'm not rich by any means, but it makes sense to just get what you need and be done with it.


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## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_Man, if you guys are nickel and diming youre standalone install, you shouldn't even be turboing your car. 
Expect to spend some money, and spend it. 

That's right. Build it right or build it twice.


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (StevenT)*

im def not nickle and diming the project. but honestly i chose these two to compare be cause if these are just as good as the 2000 dollar stand alone i woudl rather get these you know.. no need to spend the xtra hundreds wheni can use that on upgrades.. can i get a amem


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_Correct, all sensors are on the engine. You can probably save $50 from not getting the SDS sensors. Thanks for reminding me! 
So about $1130 shipped, perhaps a bit less for SDS.



_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
$1179 SDS EM4-4F with coil driver but without coils (wired to use COP setup)
$90 from SDS for a 3 bar MAP (or get one from GM for ~$60).


Dude your confusing me.Is the MAP sensor included or excluded in that $1130/1170?
Either way Stage Ic has more options and is cheaper http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

The contrasting details between the two are so minute really, and so abundant. I feel this thread could go on forever! The prices are within a couple hundred of eachother, the options available in each are sufficient for what the original poster needs. 
How should he decide?


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## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

$1130 it is. That includes the MAP sensor and shipping.
Cheaper? money can only become so much of a factor before ease of tuning and reliability take over. 15 years for SDS and counting. Very respectable.

EDIT: If a new-to-standalone user was to install and tune standalone for the first time, SDS is the most effective due to it's simplicity.
If a new-to-standalone user was to have a shop do the install and tune the car, 034 may be a better choice.



_Modified by StevenT at 9:11 PM 1-25-2005_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_EDIT: If a new-to-standalone user was to install and tune standalone for the first time, SDS is the most effective due to it's simplicity.


95% of the 034EFi users are/were new to standalone.Just a little tutorial from Javad and your good to go.
This could go on forever....


----------



## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

start preaching ur **** when ur car is done and running with ur unit


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## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*

Time is $$,there is NO WAY you are going to tell me that it will take LESS time to install a 034 and CONFIGURE IT,and PROGRAM IT,than it does with the gameboy SDS controller.......ask the guys you are preaching this to if they know how to use
1.a ohm meter
2.a oscilliscope
3.have a THOROUGH understanding of EFI and its sensors and actuators and what they do and why they do it.........not all are building race cars,MOST are building streetcars and can barely change their oil let alone configure a laptop sytem to work with OEM sensors! 
Yeahhh! Some excitement in the FI forums..........bring it on,lets hear more!


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## ijcameron (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
FROM 034EFi for $1100US you get:







$1100 for a rip-off of Megasquirt?


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

tai you should not need a scope for any kind of basic standalone install. 
if you can't figure out how to use a multi meter, you are officially retarted. 
SDS is SIMPLE DIGITAL SYSTEMS
its designed to be simple, easy to install, and easy to tune. It operates perfectly straight out of the box. 
thats what it does. 
pretty much you need to decide if you want bells and whistles, or simple. The price is too close to matter so you guys might as well stop argueing over it. If two units are over a grand, and within ~150 bucks, i think most people would pay the extra for what they really want anyways.


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

ok well besides these 2 what other stand alones are there for around the same price.. i dont think the efi is gonna win an arguement on this site simply because there are way more ppl using SDS and efi is pretty new.. im still considering the efi. i like to try different things and since noone uses the efi i woudlnt mind going with it and posting up the results on here..then again its still another month till i buy eithier so i still ahe time to look into different things


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

haltech e6x 
http://blmotorsports.com/store...id=44
$1,125 
PS it will work on any engine even up to 6cyl (we run one on my buddies is 300 / supra swap ) my buddy just happens to be a honda guy thats all. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by fast_a2_20v at 4:01 AM 1-26-2005_


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## Timmer (Dec 17, 2004)

Awesome thread folks. I think that if you are new or relatively new to F/I you should go with a system that is widely used successfully on the car/motor that your are performing the work on. Baring there isn't a huge price difference, or lack of availability. I don't think it has to be as complicated a discussion as it's become, with so much focus being on new to standalone and or F/I folks. I'm not taking either side, just general comments. Anyways, I"m glad I don't have to worry about choosing one =>


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

so how is that compared to efi and sds.. cuz thats a pretty good price. but how is the support on vw motors


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

there are a few guys running it on vw engines. 

haltech is huge, been around in racing for ever and ever. 
I really like the programming software it makes a lot of sense and is very easy to use once your actually tuning it, and they come with a ton of features / inputs / outputs for the $
haltech also has the dual map stuff same as 034 but e6x has more outputs and such then a comparably priced 034. Also has a real input i can't really remember the exact specs bc i have an E11.


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

but woudl it be safe to say that the efi woudl be a btter bet since the the actual creator is a vw enthusiast. thats one of the reasons im leanin towards the efi. the guy atually has a 034efi equipped 1.8t but im open to any ideas


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

an engine is an engine man. 
javad is no god. I'll leave it at that i don't want to stir up mud in here. just because someone is a vw/audi enthusiast doesn't mean there product is any better. lol


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

i wasnt implying his product was better because hes a vw/audi enth.. but to me its a plus that his standalone was actualy built for a vw/audi motor. kinda like hondata is made for honda motors.. thats just an opinion. im sure there can me lots of arguements. im stil open to ideas. that haltech is looking pretty interesting too


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
If Jok3sta is really not to keen on building his own harness.034EFi could custom build him one making a system for his applications really "*plug and play*" where all he will have to do is:
*1.* Provide a 12V+ Switched IGn source to the ecu
*2.* Hook up the Tach wire.
*3.* Hook up the fuel pump relay
*4.* Crank Engine. 
Now that is "*Simple*"

That's not a difference. SDS comes with it's own harness too. It's "plug and play". plug in your sensors, 12V to coils,injectors and ECU and it's running.
SDS=gameboy>Wiz
Jason


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

double post.
zeroforum=trash


_Modified by vdubspeed at 12:32 AM 1-26-2005_


----------



## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Timmer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Timmer* »_Anyways, I"m glad I don't have to worry about choosing one => 

That's right, because you already know it's getting SDS when that time comes








The SDS crew uses SDS on their own RV6A airplane. Many other people use SDS on their aircraft as well. That proves how much SDS users trust their systems. How many 034 equipped aircraft are there? None?
Some other systems worth looking at:
EMS Stinger 4424, a couple of people use it here http://www.enginemanagement.co...d=107
Microtech http://www.microtechefi.com/ They offer both laptop tuneability AND handheld programmer capabilities!
FAST (big with the turbo Buick crowd), http://www.fuelairspark.com
Accel DFI Gen 6 http://go.mrgasket.com/Brands....ion=1
Electromotive TEC3R http://www.electromotive-inc.com/

DTA P8Pro or E48EXP http://www.dtafast.co.uk/
Haltech E6X http://www.haltech.com/e6x.htm
Motec M4 or M48 http://www.motec.com/products/ecu/control.htm


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

"
i wasnt implying his product was better because hes a vw/audi enth.. but to me its a plus that his standalone was actualy built for a vw/audi motor. kinda like hondata is made for honda motors.. thats just an opinion. im sure there can me lots of arguements. im stil open to ideas. that haltech is looking pretty interesting too" 
for a 4cyl vw or 6cyl 
go in and change the coolant and IAT sensor maps to match those of the oem vw, set it up for motronic sensors (takes 2 seconds anyways) 
thats the only thing different between a vw/audi specific standalone and a regular one, lol


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

This is really not a argument thread(because who really cares wat someone else uses,it's their time/money right?)IMO this thread is to help potential buyers of stand alone pick what suits their projects needs.......I have always been a big fan(boy) of SDS since it helped me achieve my turbo dreams,which is a turbo street car that "I" can tune and get good results with.........the SDS theory has always been;
"with a simple system,you can achieve a higher state of tune due to the fact that you can concentrate on tuning the timing and afr(which is what really matters right?)instead of trying to weed through endless technobabble and frustrating installation/configuration"........a lot of first time turbo builders here that have used SDS are happy with their projects and have achieved their goals,and bottom line is when you are boosting hard,and your motor runs sweet,YOU ARE THERE!!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blak Golf* »_start preaching ur **** when ur car is done and running with ur unit









listen you half ****...what part of I allready know the system do you not understand?Do you think I would have suggested the system If I didnt like it myself?








Go back to montreal....









_Quote, originally posted by *ijcameron* »_
$1100 for a rip-off of Megasquirt? 

Care to elaborate buddy?You could have easily said $1200 for this:








so go back to the sand box http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
That's not a difference. SDS comes with it's own harness too. It's "*plug and play*". plug in your sensors, 12V to coils,injectors and ECU and it's running.

Will SDS or YOU Build Jok3Sta a "1.8T Harness"?If so how much will you charge?Javad does that for people who dont want to go through the hassle of building there own harness.He buys all the original connectors,uses a 1.8T mock engine on a stand and builds the harness to suite.Then he provides the ecu with a base map which will get jok3sta up and running.All jok3sta will have to do is go to the MK3 Forums and find out what wires are for:
*1.* TACH
*2.* ECU Stock Power
*3.* Fuel Pump
and he is good to gnce he gets the hang of tuning from reading the forums then he can switch to the other map(does SDS have this feature?







...becomes rather handy) and start building how own map.

_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_.......I have always been a big fan(boy) of SDS since 

All of you are SDS Fan Boys....and I respect that but @ the same time 
034EFi > SDS.
This thread is going around in circles.Jok3sta,anymore questions you got dude,feel free to continue posting on the 034EFi Forums.
Peace


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

i dunno but haltech is what many would call a complicated system but after just carefully reading the manual i was able to sit down with a complex car (supra swap in is300 / t76 turbo etc etc) and have it running within half an hour and driving in a couple hours. 
i don't see what the big fuss is about. you hit fuel map, select the bar you want to modify and hit up or down. lol. also i find the graphical interface makes it very easy to visualize how smooth your fueling transitions are... and accomplish things like a smooth a/f transition from leaner off boost to safe on boost. 
i know for a fact this is easier for me to use because i have tuned before using a simple numerical chart layout and found it more difficult. 
I would advise you to simply download the software for the standalone you are considering, and play with it. No software / device is perfect. for instance one problem i have with the haltech software is each rpm range graph has its own page. 
which looks like this 
...........| | | |
..| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | |
vacuum ---> boost 
problem i have is that you have to switch between each rpm range manually, so it is difficult to keep up, and when you are tuning with a fine resolution like 250 rpm increments you are in and out of a page very quickly. 
Autronic i found that i hated the menu system and interface in general lol. 
download, play... for sds i guess take a look at there pictures / screenshot stuff and try to imagine what using that owuld be like. 
99/100ths of how well your standalone runs is how well you program it, and if you can't deal with the software, your up **** creek.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_99/100ths of how well your standalone runs is how well you program it, and if you can't deal with the software, your up **** creek. 

WORD. On that note, I'm voting for draw through carb and a dual port vac distributor.


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_99/100ths of how well your standalone runs is how well you program it, and if you can't deal with the software, your up **** creek. 

yep.
I think all the ends of both systems have been pretty hammered out here. 
good luck joksta...
Jason


----------



## auditunerb5 (Mar 5, 2004)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

Wanted to put my 2cents in on this. I order the efi034 stageIc, should be here today








I'm putting it in this:








It's a 2000 a4 dbw........the car is ripped apart now and ready to put the standalone in http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I can't comment on the interface or reliability since it's not in yet, however I have used the Link I which uses a keypad and I prefer the laptop interface.
Anyways from reading the sds site (which is really informative and nice!) it seems the efi034 has quite a few advantages over the sds:
1: efi034 has duel rev limiters. This can be used for launch control.
2: timing retard and seperate fuel map available with the second rev limiter to enable turbo anti-lag strategies
3. The rev limeter on the 034 is soft touch. It retards timing at first so you can feel the power drop off without hitting a brick wall when you hit the limeter. If you still don't shift after feeling the timing pull, then it hits the hard limiter which pulls fuel and ignition. The SDS pulls fuel only at the set limit.
4. 034 in a 4cyl wastespark setup has two additional gpo to contol aux devices. You can use one to run the fuelpumps. It will prime the pump first then stop until you start the car. God forbid if you have an accident the fuel pump will be shut off. I'm using the second gpo to turn the cel and epc lamps into shift lights







But you can use if for water injection, boost contol, intercooler spray, fans, etc, etc
5. Second map trigger to run two different fuel maps

SDS may or maynot have these features. If it does I didn't see them.




_Modified by auditunerb5 at 2:56 PM 1-26-2005_


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
I would advise you to simply download the software for the standalone you are considering, and play with it. No software / device is perfect. 
download, play... for sds i guess take a look at there pictures / screenshot stuff and try to imagine what using that owuld be like. 
99/100ths of how well your standalone runs is how well you program it, and if you can't deal with the software, your up **** creek. 

Exactly i bought SDS b/c i was intimidated about the idea of using a laptop but after downloading a few different companies software i found one i like and understand so once i get some more info on it i think im prolly gonna be selling my SDS


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (auditunerb5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *auditunerb5* »_
4. 034 in a 4cyl wastespark setup has two additional gpo to contol aux devices. You can use one to run the fuelpumps. It will prime the pump first then stop until you start the car. God forbid if you have an accident the fuel pump will be shut off. I'm using the second gpo to turn the cel and epc lamps into shift lights







But you can use if for water injection, boost contol, intercooler spray, fans, etc, etc


SDS has this one. SDS controls the relay for the fuel pump. It can also control the radiator fan(or whatever you choose, you pick the temp.) SDS also has a simple ISV that works wonders. 
Can 034efi work with stock ISVs? How does it get the motor extra air for warm up?
Jason


----------



## auditunerb5 (Mar 5, 2004)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_

Can 034efi work with stock ISVs? How does it get the motor extra air for warm up?
Jason

You can use the second gpo for idle control. Idle speed can be mapped via coolant temp. You also get precise control of iac @ startup, during idle, off and on via tps, motor step rate, etc.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (auditunerb5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *auditunerb5* »_

2: timing retard and seperate fuel map available with the second rev limiter to enable turbo anti-lag strategies


You can set up SDS to have anti lag.

_Quote, originally posted by *auditunerb5* »_
3. The rev limeter on the 034 is soft touch. It retards timing at first so you can feel the power drop off without hitting a brick wall when you hit the limeter. If you still don't shift after feeling the timing pull, then it hits the hard limiter which pulls fuel and ignition. The SDS pulls fuel only at the set limit.



Before your set fuel cut off you can pull timing back to 0 and have a "soft touch" rev limiter

_Quote, originally posted by *auditunerb5* »_
4. 034 in a 4cyl wastespark setup has two additional gpo to contol aux devices. You can use one to run the fuelpumps. It will prime the pump first then stop until you start the car. God forbid if you have an accident the fuel pump will be shut off. I'm using the second gpo to turn the cel and epc lamps into shift lights







But you can use if for water injection, boost contol, intercooler spray, fans, etc, etc


SDS has additional outputs to control things like fan's, fuel pump, rmp activated switch (ie. vtec or nitrous)


----------



## auditunerb5 (Mar 5, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
You can set up SDS to have anti lag.
Before your set fuel cut off you can pull timing back to 0 and have a "soft touch" rev limiter
SDS has additional outputs to control things like fan's, fuel pump, rmp activated switch (ie. vtec or nitrous)


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Good to know the sds can do that stuff if people need it!
thanks for the info


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (auditunerb5)*

anyone have the 034efi program so i can d/l and take a look.. i just d/l the haltech and it doesnt look that bad


----------



## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

its commen sence that when someone has had good results with a system then will talk about it all the time and in there mind it would be the best this **** is going nowhere, i see the wizard cant take some teasing


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*

welli jsut bought a old laptop off ebay for 10 bux lol.. and it exceeds the requirements for the program lol cant beat that..


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_welli jsut bought a old laptop off ebay for 10 bux lol.. and it exceeds the requirements for the program lol cant beat that..

old laptops are easy to find cheap on ebay. THE HARD thing is finding a laptop that has a good battery. Most older laptops have internal batteries that no longer hold a charge. If this is true with yours then you might wanna source a power inverter too








old laptop+dead battery+power inverter+tons of $hit you don't need nor want in your car = SDS handheld programmer.
Do you have a link to the laptop you bought?


----------



## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (jok3sta)*

what kind of laptop what speed im curious. i payed 60$ canadian for a p1 133mmx with 96 ram


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
old laptops are easy to find cheap on ebay. THE HARD thing is finding a laptop that has a good battery. Most older laptops have internal batteries that no longer hold a charge. If this is true with yours then you might wanna source a power inverter too








old laptop+dead battery+power inverter+tons of $hit you don't need nor want in your car = SDS handheld programmer.
Do you have a link to the laptop you bought?


lol thats funny cuz it does say it doenst hold charge lol.. o well it was only 10 bux..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...&rd=1
i jsu figured i would jus have it plugged up to the power output in the car anyway


_Modified by jok3sta at 1:16 PM 1-26-2005_


----------



## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

bah u can always plug it to ur lighter jack with a 20$ adaptor so dont worry about the batts


----------



## diman24 (Aug 25, 2003)

*dawmn*

i am running an 034 efi unit stg Ic on a stock 2.0t aba jetta. for about 8-9 month already. i had some minor problems with install, but it was due to ours not reading instructions carefully and rushing things. Car started from the second try, ecu does come with a base map. we do have issues with getting the car to idle "perfectly" due to the failed idle control valve, and being a cheap f*** i am dealing with it . car is street tuned, for 15 lbs with wideband 12.1 flat a/f ratio. I did have to buy a $200 ebay laptop and a $75 coil from Javad. Car have not been dynoed yet due to the slipping clutch. 
Back when i was shopping for standalone, there was barely anyone to answer my questions on vortex, (can be seen from my past topics) so i did what i had too, take an educated guess. It was the first car i have tuned with efi or any standalone for that matter. probably the main reason for choosing efi was the ability to tune through a laptop, i just couldn't imagine myself pressing the 6 'gameboy' buttons....
the second reason was the price ofcourse. Hey if i don't have enought money to fix my iac valve or get an upgraded clutch, then i would choose the cheapest/best alternative. At the time it was an efi system, and i think it still is. 
Above is an honest and genuine description of my experiences with 034efi standalone ecu. Overall i give it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and if i were to tune another car i would get this unit as well.









no comments on the blueish part please









p.s. 
just some last years posts i made when searching for info on efi, sds, etc
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1069362
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1527015


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: dawmn (diman24)*

thanx for all the input.. ive pretty much made up my mind and i think im goin with the 034efi. i talked to javed and i can see he will be very helpful and he even offered to make me a harness. thast more than enough proof i will have the tech support i need. keep this forum goin though cuz its lots of good info


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: dawmn (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_thanx for all the input.. ive pretty much made up my mind and *i think im goin with the 034efi*

*BOOYAH....*

_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
*SDS*


Thank you

_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_
*SDS*

Thank you

_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
*SDS*

and ofcourse,Thank you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Sorry I just had to post.Thanks again for all the input,as always 034EFi is an ever evolving system and Javad only wants whats best for the customer,not for his pocket.034EFi is always open to crtisim and 1 email to Javad will fix all your problems.Soon from now it will be an equal amount of 034EFi owners on this board as there are SDS owners.Take care


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: dawmn (diman24)*

damn this thread died pretty fast, it seemed like a lot of people were waiting pathently by their computers clicking "refresh". I am going SDS because of a few reasons.
-StevenT does group buys.
-Seems fair simple to install and to get a good tune.
-I'm a MAC guy and don't feel like luging around a laptop and dealing with it's issues.
-A lot of people on the tex that I have spoken with use SDS and have support it.
-Finally, StevenT made numbers on a very similar setup that made my mouth drop.
I am not saying 034EFI turns me off I think it's a cool system, but for what I want and the still level I have SDS sounds right.


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: dawmn (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_damn this thread died pretty fast, it seemed like a lot of people were waiting pathently by their computers clicking "refresh". 


I was wrong.


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: dawmn (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_ Javad only wants whats best for the customer,not for his pocket.

so does SDS

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Soon from now it will be an equal amount of 034EFi owners on this board as there are SDS owners.

you're smoking crack

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Take care

w3rd


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: dawmn (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
you're smoking crack

You dont smoke crack....you sniff it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: dawmn (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You dont smoke crack....you sniff it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

wow...stick to EFI cause you obviously don't know $hit about drugs.
you sniff cocaine
crack is the solid form of cocaine that your smoke.
Ever heard of a crack pipe?
Wiz=crack head


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: dawmn (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
wow...stick to EFI cause you obviously don't know $hit about drugs.
you sniff cocaine
crack is the solid form of cocaine that your smoke.
Ever heard of a crack pipe?
Wiz=crack head










It was a joke and sorry...I dont know my drugs.HOWEVER,you clearly do








Is that what you do in your free time


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*

lol PWNED
thats not nasal congestion its just a rock stuck in his nostril. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Blak Golf* »_bah u can always plug it to ur lighter jack with a 20$ adaptor so dont worry about the batts

lol, not neccessarily true. Ever tried to tune startup when the laptop restarts every time the car cranks over? i was tuning an automatic is300/ supra swap the other weekend, without an ISV. Trying to get it to idle in drive and still have a sane idle rpm in park / neutral. 
every time it dies, his old ****ty laptop would reboot. frustrating as hell because instead of taking 10 seconds to make a change it takes 5 minutes. 
Ideally if your going to tune a decent # of cars you should get an oversized laptop case and bring with you extra battery for your WBO2 controller, laptop gear, an extra sensor for your wb02 doesn't hurt and also a multimeter if its a standalone car. 
just some stuff that i carry now because i learned the hard way. oh and i bring my own laptop because some of these $100 dollar ebay specials are more of a pain in the ass then anything else. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
also for winter months throw a coat in the car incase you get stuck so you don't freeze your nuts off and a cell phone. that same IS300 had a driveshaft problem and we froze our balls off the other night waiting for a rescue. 


_Modified by fast_a2_20v at 5:37 PM 1-27-2005_


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

i thought you said they've had one running for months?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_i thought you said they've had one running for months?

They did,on the 1.8T challenge car.Due to the rush of things and the time they had to complete the car,they were unable to integrate the stock tachometer and DBW TB into the system.Now the problem has been fixed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Also expect an update for the VR6 guys.


----------



## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I like my SDS. If I get away from it, it's going into the 'raddo and put in Holley for the 20/20.







cause we are not driving in the snow!!!


----------



## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just ordered my 034efi Stage 1c








Will come with a map installed to as closely match my engine as possible. Can't really beat that! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Javad is a seriously helpful guy, and the system looks really simple to wire in. I'll be using the existing 1.8T loom with minor revisions to the TB and coil wiring.


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (polov8)*

nice. i should be ordering mine soon


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (jok3sta)*

I gotta admit,that silver B5 with the GT30is sweet!I like that setup.....keep us posted on the hp+track #'s on that car,it has serious potential,and want to see if it gets into the 11's,that would be insane.
There are a couple A4's out there deep into the 12's,,but not sure about any 11 sec.1.8T A4. S4 of course ,are already there.


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

hey what about me lol. i already sent my harness to javad so im halfway there lol


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_hey what about me lol. i already sent my harness to javad so im halfway there lol








...you shipped him an entire 1.8T harness








ill make sure and get pics of that for the thread as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

lol i dont know is about the 1.8t harness so i wouldnt knwo where to start pulling it apart


----------



## Steve44 (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

hey, dont jump down my throat but im too lazy too look into this myself. So what can these systems do that megasquirt and spark extra with a daughter board couldn't. Dont care about simplicity, wiring harness, who runs it, or tech support. Just features, inputs, outputs, software and computing power. Mostly features. Thanks.


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (Steve44)*

http://www.034efi.com/034ECUSTGII.html


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Steve44)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Steve44* »_hey, dont jump down my throat but im too lazy too look into this myself. So what can these systems do that megasquirt and spark extra with a daughter board couldn't. Dont care about simplicity, wiring harness, who runs it, or tech support. Just features, inputs, outputs, software and computing power. Mostly features. Thanks.

Hey whats up?
MegaSquirt is a very nice system...it was always a "bang for buck option".The difference between Stage *Ic/IIc* ecu's and MS is that MS is an *event based system* and not *degree based*.The 034 Stage *Ib/IIb* systems are event based in the sense that they use a distributor to control spark.
Now an Event is like a window in the distributor passing the hall effect sensor, then it fires the spark based on the time that event occured. A degree based system uses a multi-toothed wheel on the crank and knows exactly where the crank is down to the degree or less.This makes timing resolution much more fine-tuneable.There are so many factors that can affect the timing signal in an event based system such as timing belt vibration,distributor gear slop,etc.The MS system is a nice system but the reason I went with Stage Ic is because there is alot more room for error in an event based system.
Now MS has some sort of Degree based system that works with a Ford EDIS system as a piggy back but I would prefer a 2 in 1 system.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

yup this picture is what i figured out the slow way (multimeter) 
the middle is always the ground... only the ground and the trigger will have continuety... my connector was busted a little bit (how i got the sensor for free) so the 1 2 and 3 were gone.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_yup this picture is what i figured out the slow way (multimeter) 
the middle is always the ground... only the ground and the trigger will have continuety... my connector was busted a little bit (how i got the sensor for free) so the 1 2 and 3 were gone.









yeah im installing my stag1c right now, i started yesterday and so far i've wired up power to the ecu, 02 sensor, tps, water temp, and air temp. next i need to wire my coils, vr sensor, tach, and fuel pump relay and i should be good to go.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
yeah im installing my stag1c right now, i started yesterday and so far i've wired up power to the ecu, 02 sensor, tps, water temp, and air temp. next i need to wire my coils, vr sensor, tach, and fuel pump relay and i should be good to go.

These are water proof connector's Ricky.The reason I suggested a quick release connector was to keep the installation clean."release pin...remove coil packs"...simple and looks very nice.
















You should get the idea of what I mean from this:


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

the title is still 034efi VS. SDS right? Good.
Though I like Wiz's ingenuity with the coil packs and all the discussion of pin this and buid that...
with SDS you just plug the coil pack to the ECU via "weather proof" connectors and give it switched 12V. So easy








Just keepin the flame alive,
Jason


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
with SDS you just plug the coil pack to the ECU via "weather proof" connectors and give it switched 12V. So easy









Sorry but 4ork got his 4 coils from the Junkyard so I am helping him build a home made wasted spark set up.YEs the Drivers can support it....








p.s. we seem to have won the battle so its now a 034EFi topic


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
p.s. we seem to have *won the battle *so its now a 034EFi topic









but not the war


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
p.s. we seem to have won the battle so its now a 034EFi topic









Wizard counts a wins as- When somebody has the system, but hasn't finished the install or doesn't have any number from the unit on their motor.
I love internet racing!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_
I love internet racing!

So Do I...








You guys get on like such little ballerina's.By the beginning of next month there would be at least 10 vorterxers finishing up the 034 projects.
whatever...i am not going to entertain this bs anymore.
Jok3Sta I will host the pictures of your harness when I get them later on in the week.


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yeah,and the whole time this thread has started,I have installed and tuned 3 SDS systems,and the cars are up and running!lol.........


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_Yeah,and the whole time this thread has started,I have installed and tuned 3 SDS systems,and the cars are up and running!lol.........









Some of the users are getting there.By the weekend they would be more than happy to give there input.
TAI when I come Hawaii we going to drink and dance with the Houla Girls?








Cute little bugger...









__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## diman24 (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (TAIVW Boosted-Dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_Yeah,and the whole time this thread has started,I have installed and tuned 3 SDS systems,and the cars are up and running!lol.........









and for your heroic and selfless conduct in acomplishing this mission, we, the readers of this thread award you with this medal.


----------



## TAIVW Boosted-Dubs (Dec 4, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

LOL...........remember what I said about the "tatoos" you better be able to handle your liquor!!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (diman24)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVW Boosted-Dubs* »_LOL...........remember what I said about the "tatoos" you better be able to handle your liquor!!
















Rum is my best friend....








is it yours?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 12:40 PM 2-10-2005_


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Some of the users are getting there.By the weekend they would be more than happy to give there input.
TAI when I come Hawaii we going to drink and dance with the Houla Girls?








Cute little bugger...









__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view











hey, how come yours has the cool sticker on it!!


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

yeah i want a sticker
im thinking about a decal on the side of the car like the 1.8t challenge car


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_yeah i want a sticker
im thinking about a decal on the side of the car like the 1.8t challenge car

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Just found this on the 034EFi site,maybe helpful for the SDS guys as well.I think i am going to get me a couple


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Just found this on the 034EFi site,maybe helpful for the SDS guys as well.I think i am going to get me a couple










SDS comes w/ prebuilt injector harness. 

here is another site for Connectors though. have the injector ones, weatherpack(1,2,3,4,6pin),
http://www.rs-autosport.com/


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_yeah i want a sticker
im thinking about a decal on the side of the car like the 1.8t challenge car

just because I can't leave well enough alone...
SDS comes with a sheet of stickers


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
just because I can't leave well enough alone...
SDS comes with a sheet of stickers










Ah snap! I just heard that 4ork just sold his 034 setup and bought SDS.


----------



## Dan_GTi (Mar 20, 2004)

i just had 034 efi installed and i love it...was able to keep my cluster and everything intact...can't complain for the price


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_

Ah snap! I just heard that 4ork just sold his 034 setup and bought SDS.

hahahaha who told you that? that would be pretty dumb of me to sell my 034 setup AFTER its all installed and then have to start all over again lol


----------



## TnT2theMax (Dec 28, 2002)

*Re: (the4ork)*

The SDS system comes standard with coil packs, the EM-6f that is.


----------



## 12sec Rado (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (TnT2theMax)*

Reading about the EFI system some more,it looks like a great alternative for the 1.8T guys for sure..........since you can get it to drive OEM coil packs,and use stock sensors,that is VERY cool......but for those that still want SIMPLE to tune (no tables to deal with)then SDS can work as well.......just leave everything plugged in and have the SDS over-ride the injection and timing,while the stock ECU thinks it is still doing something.....so the immo.,and tach,etc. still all work.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TnT2theMax)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TnT2theMax* »_The SDS system comes standard with coil packs, the EM-6f that is.

Is that because it cant work with other coil packs?


----------



## TnT2theMax (Dec 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Wizard it doesn't matter what it works with as long as it works, and I dont' have coilpacks right know so if I get SDS and it comes with coilpacks it saves me 250 bucks.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TnT2theMax)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TnT2theMax* »_Wizard it doesn't matter what it works with as long as it works, and I dont' have coilpacks right know so if I get SDS and it comes with coilpacks it saves me 250 bucks.









No Problem http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
MSD sells some nice units for $44.88


----------



## TnT2theMax (Dec 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I am pretty much set on SDS, now.


----------



## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

WOD- SDS will work with just about any coil setup you want. You can wire it to use a COP setup (like the stock 1.8T COP setup). A MSD DIS 2 can be used with an aftermarket coil setup.
You can also wire a Subaru coilpack directly to SDS... Lots of choices.


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (StevenT)*

finally ordered my 034 yesterday


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_finally ordered my 034 yesterday









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I smile everytime I read this thread....


----------



## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I smile everytime I read this thread....

So do I Wiz, so do I.
I've got another 8 SDS systems sold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
So do I Wiz, so do I.
I've got another 8 SDS systems sold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

nice, at least i know ill have sumthin different.







the only rado 1.8t on 034 efi http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ( i think )


----------



## diman24 (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_
nice, at least i know ill have sumthin different.







the only rado 1.8t on 034 efi http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ( i think )


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (diman24)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_So do I Wiz, so do I.
I've got another 8 SDS systems sold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

And I sold 88....Are you trying to point out that your a poor salesman?
You all just dont get it......How many SDS units you guys sell/install/eat has 0 effect on this topic.
2 clients have allready upgraded from SDS to 034EFi (both VR6's)....How many 034EFi clients do you think will downgrade to SDS








p.s. For the record....you SDS guys could print this whole thread and show it to every tuner shop in north america,more publicity for me


----------



## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You all just dont get it......

*You* don't get it.
My point is: This thread pointed out the strengths and weeknesses or both systems. There was much quibbling, but the thread was informative. Sales of SDS will continue to be strong regardless.
Publicity







You're funny. You're a walking bilboard for 034. My publicity is word of mouth, it's the superlatively effective method of 'spreading the word.'


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_
Publicity







You're funny. You're a walking bilboard for 034.









Maybe if there were 7000 vortexers praising 034EFi then you would be saying different....








So far about 6 SDS dealers came in this thread singing its good praises.I dont sell 034EFi units,I dont gain nothing from being a "bilboard" ....my life is simple and thats the way I like it.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i like mine so far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i like mine so far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Hows the tuning coming along?I imagine after reading this thread that it must be very difficult.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i got some bugs to work out thats for shure... wish i can drive it


----------



## diman24 (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

here is another plug for an efi unit
car : '98 1.8t aeb passat completely stock
standalone : efi stage Ic
total hookup time in the kitchen: ~5hrs (including tea, smoke, beer, food breaks) 
total install time: ~5min
























p.s. nothing extra was bought for the car, all stock sensors are used, everything works perfectly including dash


_Modified by diman24 at 9:30 PM 3-4-2005_


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (diman24)*

nice. cant wait to install mine


----------



## JettaGLXdriver (Oct 3, 2002)

I am still pleased with my SDS.


----------



## 2008cc (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

does the 034 controll high or low impedence injectors? anyone tyr one on a VR6T yet?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (2008cc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2008cc* »_does the 034 controll high or low impedence injectors?

Both http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *2008cc* »_anyone tyr one on a VR6T yet?

Yes...(even a vortexer,will post nick later if he doesnt see this first)
Does your VR6 have a distributor or Coil Packs?
If it has Coil packs then you will need the Stage IIc unit as Ic doesnt have enough IGN drivers.
If it has a distributor then you could use the Stage Ic unit which retails for about $1100US and Javad can provide a base map for it as he has carried a couple installs on the 12V VR6's equipped with a distributor.
Its finally dead....


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Both http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yes...(even a vortexer,will post nick later if he doesnt see this first)
Does your VR6 have a distributor or Coil Packs?
If it has Coil packs then you will need the Stage IIc unit as Ic doesnt have enough IGN drivers.
If it has a distributor then you could use the Stage Ic unit which retails for about $1100US and Javad can provide a base map for it as he has carried a couple installs on the 12V VR6's equipped with a distributor.
Its finally dead....









im actually goin vr6t now instead of 1.8t so ill post results when i get goin my IIc is on the way


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_im actually goin vr6t now instead of 1.8t so ill post results when i get goin my IIc is on the way


I take it your going to be using the Triple Coil Pack 12V VR6.What you going to do with your 1.8T?


----------



## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I take it your going to be using the Triple Coil Pack 12V VR6.What you going to do with your 1.8T?

mi actually buy a coilpack from javad.. 1.8t sold lasat nite


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_
mi actually buy a coilpack from javad.. 1.8t sold lasat nite

Excellent.Javad has some VR6 maps so I guess you will be in luck there.It is just us 8V guys who are having a difficult time getting maps/making maps because they arnt the *benchmark of performance*.
That being said I urge all the readers of this thread to buy this book.
hey Scott66, I am a spokesman for Motorbooks International now


----------



## 12Sec Rado' (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Another brilliant thought....








SDS.....for people that want to DRIVE their cars,and not have to ask a million questions how to get the dam thing working!.....lol 
Just playin wit you nukka'! 







I just put my 35,000 miles on my SDS system! whoot!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (12Sec Rado')*


_Quote, originally posted by *12Sec Rado’* »_Another brilliant thought....








SDS.....for people that want to DRIVE their cars,and not have to ask a million questions how to get the dam thing working!.....lol 
Just playin wit you nukka'! 







I just put my 35,000 miles on my SDS system! whoot!










TAI the problem is we dont have 8V Turbo maps.Javad as whole heep of Inline 5 (both 10V and 20V),VR6 and 1.8T maps but no 16V or 8V maps.
PITA @ times.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

wiz, out of curiosity... is your setup installed yet?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_wiz, out of curiosity... is your setup installed yet?

Yes...to a point.Rebuilding the harness to have more quick release components in it and wire hiding.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

have you had it installed and tuned at one point? sure does seem like its taking you forever... whats the holdup? getting parts out to the middle of nowhere (where u live lol)
at least yours will be super clean i hope, or it should be.
i think im going to get another harness from javad now that i know how to wire it all up pretty much off the top of my head... i think im going to get a stock-like harness and connect it up, cut out all this ish i dont need and connect the 034 harness to where the harness plugs into the stock ecu... sorta like andre did, i think he did that... on his passat? someone did


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*

i feel that mine is kinda ghetto installed








i cut up the sensor plugs from the stock harness, such as the tps plug with the wires coming out, and but connected them with the 034 harness. i did that for all my sensors. some people will say its ghetto, but at the time i was just happy i had all the plugs that matched up


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_have you had it installed and tuned at one point? sure does seem like its taking you forever... whats the holdup? getting parts out to the middle of nowhere (where u live lol)

Never tuned it on my engine.Tuned it on others...the holdup is time.Time is always against me but hopefully that will change soon.

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
at least yours will be super clean i hope, or it should be.

Ye it should be.The longer it takes, the better I can perfect the project.Who knows,maybe this time next year Ill be running a dry sump with all the money I have saved using bus instead of buying gas









_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
i think im going to get another harness from javad now that i know how to wire it all up pretty much off the top of my head... i think im going to get a stock-like harness and connect it up, cut out all this ish i dont need and connect the 034 harness to where the harness plugs into the stock ecu... sorta like andre did, i think he did that... on his passat? someone did

Diman did.Javad now sells the bosch injector/3-pin TPS connectors.I did the same thing as you.I used second hand connectors and soldered everything up and yes under all the loom it is ghetto,Thats why i want to redo it all.I guess I am a perfectionist @ the end of the day.

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i feel that mine is kinda ghetto installed








i cut up the sensor plugs from the stock harness, such as the tps plug with the wires coming out, and but connected them with the 034 harness. i did that for all my sensors. some people will say its ghetto, but at the time i was just happy i had all the plugs that matched up









Ye I know what You mean.Now you know what goes where,start cleaning it up!I dont find you work is ghetto.....i was kinda digging the project with 2 -tone paint and clean engine bay.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i want to go to the car wash place and spray some degreaser and clean up the engine bay but im afraid i'll F' something up... maybe when i have waterproof coils connectors i'll do that. im just afraid the water will cause an arc unless i let it dry for a day or 2 lol


----------



## Sleepy Mk1 (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Never tuned it on my engine.Tuned it on others...the holdup is time.Time is always against me but hopefully that will change soon.

Doesn't have anything to do with the fact that your car isn't even in the same country as you 8 months of the year?








I don't understand why you're so stressed about finding maps, the whole point of a standalone is tuning it right for your exact setup. Having a starting point is nice, but it really only saves you a few minutes since everything changes from car to car. The fact that your **** was tuned on somebody else's car is irrelavant.
I love the fact that *the* spokesman for 034 doesn't have it running on a car.







That has nothing to do with 034, it looks like a great system, just funny...blind leading the blind...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Sleepy Mk1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sleepy Mk1* »_
Doesn't have anything to do with the fact that your car isn't even in the same country as you 8 months of the year?








I don't understand why you're so stressed about finding maps, the whole point of a standalone is tuning it right for your exact setup. Having a starting point is nice, but it really only saves you a few minutes since everything changes from car to car. The fact that your **** was tuned on somebody else's car is irrelavant.
I love the fact that *the* spokesman for 034 doesn't have it running on a car.







That has nothing to do with 034, it looks like a great system, just funny...blind leading the blind...

and the dumb is leading the dumb.....
I think I explained myself back on page 4.








I installed and used the system on many other cars.I guess if you nothing relavent to say then dont say it...
Thanks


----------



## Sleepy Mk1 (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Where are you now? Where is your car now? When was the last time you drove your car? Worked on it? Did anything more than accumulate parts for something you may one day build?
It is relavent in the sense that you mislead people into thinking you know more than you do. I appreciate that you've researched this stuff, and that you know a fair bit about it, but research and real life are two very different things. I'm not trying to debate which is better, just point out that in most cases the people that respond with good feedback about SDS are actually using it whereas people with O34 are either looking into it or have heard about it or whatever.


----------



## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Holy cyber suplex


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Sleepy Mk1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sleepy Mk1* »_Where are you now? Where is your car now? When was the last time you drove your car? Worked on it? Did anything more than accumulate parts for something you may one day build?.

December 30th 2004.

_Quote, originally posted by *Sleepy Mk1* »_
It is relavent in the sense that you mislead people into thinking you know more than you do. I appreciate that you've researched this stuff, and that you know a fair bit about it, but research and real life are two very different things. I'm not trying to debate which is better, just point out that in most cases the people that respond with good feedback about SDS are actually using it whereas people with O34 are either looking into it or have heard about it or whatever.

Misleading?
Misleading would be me coming on here saying ye.....I sell xyz but I dont know jack all about xyz.Do you think looking @ all these threads that I am able to answer these questions if I dont have hands on experience with the system?It seems to me that you are grossly misinformed like many people in Ottawa and have a point to prove.What the point is....I dont know.


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

Ive already installed and street tuned a few 034efi systems.
I chose to go with the efi system over any others for a few reasons.
1st reason was price! Ive also looked at the SDS system but what turned me off was the fact that it couldnt be tuned via a laptop. which means you can only have 1 map at a time. and every change has to be a series of key strokes, depending on how much youre changing the map. The 034 is tuned via a laptop and you have the ability to have two different maps stored at the same time and switched at the flick of a switch.
So this now gives you the ability to have stored on you pc harddrive or even a flash drive, as many maps as you want. 93,94,100,100,116oct mild modest extreme timing rich slightly rich .....etc. And you willbe able to upload these map within minutes if not seconds. Very valuable on the dyno.
Im not here to say which is better. joksta has already made up his mind.Just letting whoever wants to know my reason for going with 034efi.
Andre
Ps if anyone needs any help tuning or has any question about the 034efi system just send me an IM


----------



## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

I love how many maps people need. If we're gonna nit pick it down like that,I could change my timing as fast as it takes you to boot up the laptop. But then again,after you boot it up you could be faster switching back and forth,but I'd wait until your battery went dead and then change my values real quick,then I'd win!
Wait,what are we doing again????

That does sound pretty cool about the flick of the switch though,I'll give ya that much. (that's assuming you mean a regular 12v switch.)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
Ps if anyone needs any help tuning or has any question about the 034efi system just send me an IM


Watch it Andre...Slick Rick from Ottawa might think your "misleading people into thinking you know more than you do" just because you can tune a 034 system and he cant.

_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_ I love how many maps people need.

Hardcore the problem is not how many maps we *need*,its how many maps we have available to us.There is a 034EFi Map for pretty much any combination you can think of on a 1.8T engine (to a point of course).Not every 8V owner is going to purchase and install standalone when there is SNS Tuning + Digi 1 out there.That being said hopefully Ricky and the others with the aid of Andre and Myself will get there machines up and running.


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_ I love how many maps people need. If we're gonna nit pick it down like that,I could change my timing as fast as it takes you to boot up the laptop. But then again,after you boot it up you could be faster switching back and forth,but I'd wait until your battery went dead and then change my values real quick,then I'd win!
Wait,what are we doing again????

That does sound pretty cool about the flick of the switch though,I'll give ya that much. (that's assuming you mean a regular 12v switch.)


Yeah you right I want to run the same map whether is 20degrees or 100degrees ambient temp.








Noone is nit picking. The ability to save maps and view them later as your cars perfomance and upgrades have changed to me is a good thing. 
To me it gives a good idea at what makes you car happy.
BTW what are we saying now a SDS would win a map switching race lol??
I cant wait to see you at a light wait for the light to turn green and see who could switch maps the fastest!!!








I love Vortex http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_Yeah you right I want to run the same map whether is 20degrees or 100degrees ambient temp.









SDS has a air temp sensor that adjusts to the temps. I've driven my car in freezing weather and hot weather. I've had my air temps as low 38 degrees and over a 100. I've never had to change a map. It's automatic.

_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_I cant wait to see you at a light wait for the light to turn green and see who could switch maps the fastest!!!









that's if the eBay laptop battery you have is good.








Personally.....having the gameboy/SDS hand held programmer is a huge advantage over a laptop to me. I hate when I want to go datalog something and I have to take my laptop. It's 5 times larger than my programmer, the mouse is a PITA to move when I'm doing 60. It's definitely not easy to navigate while driving. I can scroll through the programmer faster than ___insert something funny___
All I'm saying is that... I had ZERO tuning experience and within DAYS of getting my car running...I was street tuned making kick ass horsepower. I had a few problems but common sense and 2-3 questions later...my car idled, warmed up, boosted and broke **** awesome.
That said...SDS is hella better than 034EFI









Jason


_Modified by vdubspeed at 12:16 AM 3-31-2005_


----------



## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

I was being sarcastic about the map changing races because where I live,in the real world,it's not needed as often as in here. I did like the idea of the switch,but it's not THAT impressive....settle down
If you get some cars running good on it,more power to you. There's only a small handful of cars doing anything over what was being done 5 years ago,maybe you're one of them.


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_I was being sarcastic about the map changing races because where I live,in the real world,it's not needed as often as in here. I did like the idea of the switch,but it's not THAT impressive....settle down
If you get some cars running good on it,more power to you. There's only a small handful of cars doing anything over what was being done 5 years ago,maybe you're one of them.

How often do you change the setup on your car? do you ever go to a dyno? not to do 3 pulls, to actually tune???
Forget it.


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_SDS has a air temp sensor that adjusts to the temps. I've driven my car in freezing weather and hot weather. I've had my air temps as low 38 degrees and over a 100. I've never had to change a map. It's automatic.


SDS is the only standalone that does this......

_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
that's if the eBay laptop battery you have is good.










Wrong person.....I have a 1 1/2 year old dell laptop and a 1 month old dell laptop. Pentinum M if you know what the power benefits are.


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
Personally.....having the gameboy/SDS hand held programmer is a huge advantage over a laptop to me. I hate when I want to go datalog something and I have to take my laptop. It's 5 times larger than my programmer, the mouse is a PITA to move when I'm doing 60. It's definitely not easy to navigate while driving. I can scroll through the programmer faster than ___insert something funny___


Whats the point of datalogging if you cant compare the old with the new? Wouldnt a graphical representation be better or are you against that also?

_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
All I'm saying is that... I had ZERO tuning experience and within DAYS of getting my car running...I was street tuned making kick ass horsepower. I had a few problems but common sense and 2-3 questions later...my car idled, warmed up, boosted and broke **** awesome.
That said...SDS is hella better than 034EFI








Jason


Thanks Jason it is now official a SDS system is the only standalone that can be tuned within DAYS.
Does any on have some real technican comparasons to add?
I was just flipping through the sdsefi manual. 
All i have to say is if that is the type of system you like then buy it! 
BTW if anyone whats it the link to the manual is here.
http://www.sdsefi.com/em4main14.pdf
here is the main website http://www.sdsefi.com
and if you interested here is a few sample maps gives you and idea of the process to get these maps onto the system.
http://www.sdsefi.com/fuelmaps.htm
Please guys Im not here looking to CAT fight with anyone. Whenever someone has defend a product by insulting someone elses onpions, then it starts to become like religion and i dont want to go there.
Joskta already made his decision based on the info within this thread.

Just something else to add sds been around for so long and have sooo many user but so far i can only see about 5 and 1 of them is a dealer.
Andre


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
How often do you change the setup on your car? do you ever go to a dyno? not to do 3 pulls, to actually tune???
Forget it.


When I was using it,we tuned it on the street with pump gas then on the track with race fuel,added x amount of timing. When pump gas went back in,I took the timing out,sure it took about 3min,but what can I say,I'm a lowbrow compared to most of the people around here, I have that kind of time available.
As far as how often it was changed,it really wasn't,we got it running good and the rest was history. I just enjoyed the car.

I can only wait to be on the leading edge of technology like you are and always pushing the envelope by making all these changes to squeeze every last drop out of your engines. You must really be doing some serious R&D and going into waters nobody has ever went into as often as it sounds like your changing things. I'm looking forward to seeing some of your cars run this season.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

this is just so rediculous.
i bet i could change my turbo, cam, exhaust, make a new intake, and run on the same map i had with the hypothetical old setup, and still run faster then you guys could ever with all your datalogging and map changability!
fact is once you KNOW what your doing and not paying someone else to do tuning for you, it doesnt MATTER what ecu you are using. 
UNLESS you are pushing the envelope like EVERYONE in here is







































































cant hit that thing fast enough!
the people all these bells and whistles matter to most is the geeks who have slow cars! yeah, i understand the bennefits of all the options, but fact is they are not needed, and the people with fast cars are PROOF it isnt needed.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote »_
Whats the point of datalogging if you cant compare the old with the new? Wouldnt a graphical representation be better or are you against that also?


remind me why a 3d image is so good, because i honestly dont know.
how is this going to bennefit you?


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## StevenT (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_Just something else to add sds been around for so long and have sooo many user but so far i can only see about 5 and 1 of them is a dealer.


There are 60 + people from the VWVortex that have got SDS systems from me alone. There are alot more people that run SDS, but don't bother posting in pissing matches like this.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (StevenT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StevenT* »_There are 60 + people from the VWVortex that have got SDS systems from me alone. There are alot more people that run SDS, but don't bother posting in pissing matches like this.

Werd.
I've been tuning/installing SDS for 4-5 years now, on my own cars and others...hell I've even been given retailer status by the local distributor. I prefer not to chime in with my tuning tips or help anymore because I know its going to end up like this...an 8 page, ****-waving, "my standalone is better than your standalone" fight.
Honestly, who gives a **** anymore. Both camps have proven that neither side is mature enough to offer any constructive help anyway. 
Buy what you want to buy, tune what you want to tune, and then for the love of god...PLEASE ****!


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (B4S)*

this post is gettin retarted.







the fact of the matter is. there are WAY more ppl using sds cuz its been out longer. whichi why i chose to do something different, and i wanted laptop tuneability. i dint want this to turn into a battle of the standalones. cuz realy and truly autronic and motec puts these 2 to shame. and thers more ppl running sds than those 2 together im sure


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_this post is gettin retarted.







the fact of the matter is. *there are WAY more ppl using sds cuz its been out longer*.

Shoot....I thought it was just me that had common sense.This can go on and on,the only reason we havent seen a 
SDS vs DTA
SDS vs MOTEC
SDS vs Autronic thread is because noone would entertain such a thread.From day 1,since 034EFi debuted...people have been hating on it.Just tired of it to be honest.....
this thread is full of little girls who just whine and whine....I have been through both systems and I prefer laptop tuner ability.Why cant you SDS guys accept that and move on.
If a client wants laptop tuner ability then dont hate him for it.If he doesnt want laptop tuner ability then yes...SDS comes into play.
Anything anyone else want to add?


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## Sleepy Mk1 (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Ya, you don't have 'clients' so give it a rest.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Shoot....I thought it was just me that had common sense.This can go on and on,the only reason we havent seen a 
SDS vs DTA
SDS vs MOTEC
SDS vs Autronic thread is because noone would entertain such a thread.From day 1,since 034EFi debuted...people have been hating on it.Just tired of it to be honest.....


Or is it due to the fact that the minute someone begins talking about SDS, SOMEONE chimes in with how much better 0341EFI is?
I've looked at 03242436534657efi, and sure, its cool...might even switch one day. The only problem I have with the system now is its reps on the tex, and their ability to turn a simple standalone question into a discussion that rivals certain cult leaders charismatic recruitment speeches.
I've never said a bad thing about 0341efi, so don't anyone get their panties in a bunch about it. I've never even posted in a thread with "0341efi" in the title due to the fact that it always goes to **** and I didn't want to be involved. I recently checked out the site and was very impressed to be honest. Just not down with the ultra-defensive attitudes that surround it, like a pubescent teenager with a chip on his shoulder. The product is good...but the representation here is not. Are the SDS reps any better? Doesn't look like it....but their post counts kinda speak for themselves. Any bad words they have, has obviously been said a lot less.


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I'm actually laughing out loud right now...
This thread is awesome. 
I just hope everybody boost their dub or audi and makes great power.








Jason


_Modified by vdubspeed at 2:37 PM 3-31-2005_


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## 12Sec Rado' (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I did my tuning the same way as Hardcore......get the air fuel ratio to 
XX:1,then simply add XX timing,and run it at the track,if the mph got better then I was headed in the right direction,if not,then I knew that was the timing my car wanted to run.
As for "multiple maps"..........why do you need them again??
If you are running say 15 psi on pump gas,then 25 psi on race gas,then your car will already be tuned for street,since you will not hit 25 psi on the street,but at the track when you do run high boost,those values will only be used at that time.If you keep it at 15psi for street,then THAT 15psi "tune" will be used.
The difference IMO between SDS and all the others are
1.There are MANY systems out there like 034 EFI,DTA,Motec,Autronic,Tec,EMS,etc.......
2.There is only ONE system like SDS,which is SIMPLE
3.The theory is,cars will achieve a higher state of tune in the hands of the end user(in this case,amateur/novice car enthusiast)since they can
cocentrate on EASY tuning,rather than scrolling through endless mumbo jumbo.
4.At the end of the day,most peeps just want their ride to run RELIABLY and POWERFULLY,not everyone is "geeked out"and will have a laptop dataloggong their car while driving........most just want to "drive"......
5.Not everyone is a electrician/computer specialist,so some with "simpler minds"want to tune a car and have it running well without taking 1 year to do it.....








YEs,EFI is cool,but it isn't anything groundbreaking,BUT IMO SDS was and is,since it allows a dummy like myself,with no prior tuning experience,to tune a car to 400bhp,and never once using a dyno to do it.








And while others ask for answers to their technical woes with the "other" systems,for the amount of SDS users,you RARELY see any horror stories or boggled minds,since most have theirs running and functioning very quickly,since it IS so straightforward and simple....
K.I.S.S. ,this is a old saying meaning "Keep It Simple,Stupid"


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## PADILLA (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: (12Sec Rado')*


_Quote »_Just something else to add sds been around for so long and have sooo many user but so far i can only see about 5 and 1 of them is a dealer.

I bought 7 kits off Steven T myself, but what do I know?


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## 12Sec Rado' (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (12Sec Rado')*

And I agree with Jason,I hope everyone has success and lives their "turbo dreams",BUT I do think that the Wiz does mis-lead peeps by making them think it is "easier" than it really is.........I mean a lot of guys IMO will get in way over their heads with laptop systems.....
That is why I always was a staunch supporter of SDS for home built projects,since 99% of these cars are first time turbo builds,and building a car is hard enough without trying to become a rocket scientist and electrical engineer/computer programmer just to get a decent state of tune in yur turbo car.
It is funny though,I see a "elitest attitude" when peeps say how "gameboyish" SDS is and how it "doens't have a lot of features",well that is fine,you all can play with your features while the rest of us are at the track racing and boosting HARD.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (12Sec Rado')*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_this post is gettin retarted.







the fact of the matter is. there are WAY more ppl using sds cuz its been out longer. whichi why i chose to do something different


lol @ fasion playing such a role


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_

lol @ fasion playing such a role

fashion over function is what I say....
err...or is it...function over fashion...yeah...that's DEFINITELY IT


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Yes thats right....you know so much about me and what I do....go chug some diesel or something








Representation of the product is perfectly fine.Javad himself oversees every reply and has not complained about any made by Andre/Dima or myself.Questions were asked about 034EFi and I answered them to the best of my ability.
Chad we can go on and on about this.A Negative image on SDS affects you/Sleepy MK1/vdubspeed/etc. where as a negative image of 034EFi only affects Javad and Javad alone.
We are not 034EFI dealers and we gain nothing from the company other than development of personal parts so all this "product pushing" is infact knowledge shairing since noone else knows the product like we do.
For the record,I would appreciate it if you call the product by its name...*034EFi*,signifying the MC engine code.
There is nothing more for me to say here.
I have said my peace.Later

But earlier you said that this is your business...and now you say you don't get any money from this? Ah well, talking in circles is fun!








I fail to see how this looks any worse for me or any of the other SDS guys. Do you not yet understand how you are viewed here on the tex? Or on OVD for that matter? The word "know-it-all" comes to mind.
As far as I am concerned, 0341EFi is a great product, but thanks to the **** disturbing and poor representation on the tex, I'll be staying away. Haltech is my new drug of choice, if I ever switch. Let me tell you though, Javad should be happy to hear that his 'reps' don't consider the damage they do to his business with threads like this.


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## 12Sec Rado' (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (B4S)*

Actually,the Wiz has good intentions,and is always willing to help,which is cool,and that is something that he takes the time to do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
We all got different opinions,and that is a good thing.We are all trying to get to the same results,just in different ways.Da' Wiz is coo. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (but I think he DOES get SOMETHING for all this advertising







)


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Sleepy Mk1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sleepy Mk1* »_Where are you now? Where is your car now? When was the last time you drove your car? Worked on it? Did anything more than accumulate parts for something you may one day build?
It is relavent in the sense that you mislead people into thinking you know more than you do. I appreciate that you've researched this stuff, and that you know a fair bit about it, but research and real life are two very different things. I'm not trying to debate which is better, just point out that in most cases the people that respond with good feedback about SDS are actually using it whereas people with O34 are either looking into it or have heard about it or whatever.

i guess i wasnt just using mine last night then








suckka!


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (12Sec Rado')*


_Quote, originally posted by *12Sec Rado’* »_Actually,the Wiz has good intentions,and is always willing to help,which is cool,and that is something that he takes the time to do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
We all got different opinions,and that is a good thing.We are all trying to get to the same results,just in different ways.Da' Wiz is coo. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (but I think he DOES get SOMETHING for all this advertising







)


we get something out of it alright.... anytime we have a question that myself, andre, or even the all-knowing wiz doesnt know... javad is always available by cell and more than wiling to help out. i even got a military discount on my 1c system. not to say sds woulnt do that, they prabably would. i dunno, i heard alot of good things about sds when i was making my descision, and one of the most things for me to lean toward the sds side was the great tech. support and because its so widely used on the vortex. it just so worked out that when digi1 was pissing me off to the point to spend $1100 the wiz shed some 034 light on me, and all the extra features and the ease of installation, and the price, even before the discount is what got me. 
actually, i first heard about it from koko, a guy at the local gtg's i go to in fresno, he has javads k26/t4 hybrid.
and come to find out i've been getting great help, so when joksta is ready to install/tune, i'll try to help as much as i know, and thats what its all about. if someone likes the features sds has, get sds and the sds guys will lend a helping wrench and lightbulb to get the new guy on his feet.... and the same with the 034 guys. 
so lets leave it at that, and this thread has just about exhausted itself. so lets all make peace with eachother and quit all the arguing...


_Modified by the4ork at 10:52 AM 4-1-2005_


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (the4ork)*

AMEN


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (jok3sta)*

got my stage IIc in the mail couple days ago cant wait to get started


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (jok3sta)*









your using a 1.8t head right? i saw a WTB for a 20v head with your name on it








just wondering because im upgrading from aba8v to aba 20v here shortly


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

nah im goin vr6 for sure. maybe ill be the first vr turbo runing 034. or am i ??


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (jok3sta)*

i think! good luck man, wish i had the balls to do a vr swap. at least we can say we have a guy running a vr quite successfully


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

cool... any of us vortex 034 nuts going to dubwars? i know you arent wiz...







and andre is on the east coast. i'll be there for sure, rockin 20v or not


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## BlownGTT (May 14, 2004)

got SDS recently, just wanted to say that everything was so easy to follow, the wiring loom labeled so even a blind person could wire it up, so far is a decent piece of kit.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

NO dubwarz


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## dets (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: (BlownGTT)*

Both of these systems are good stand alone systems

I've seen SDS on different cars and i'm installing 034 EFI on my car and have seen it on my friends car. 

Two major things that seperate these two standalones.
SDS is easier to install and use.
034 performs better and is SCALEABLE. 

Sure its easy to set the AFR and "my wife can do it" and "its easy while i'm doing 60" but that does not mean that you are choosing the best standalone for the price. 
034 (without getting into all the tech info that was divulged before) is more scaleable not matter which way you look at it. With 034 YOU CAN DO MORE. Also, the tech support is incredible. I've had alot of support from members and especially 034 EFI itself. 
034 Is an easy install, but its understood that there are not as many people out there willling to make their own harness. 
I made mine in 2 hours the other nite. but who knows, maybe i'm quick. I doubt it.
Bottom line is this. SDS is easy to install and a quick fix, but for performance and tuneability, 034 EFI is much better. 


_Modified by dets at 6:17 PM 7-13-2005_


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (dets)*

the horse is dead man...


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## edot (Dec 27, 2004)

*Re: Questions about ordering SDS for 1.8t (jok3sta)*

sds all the way or try wolf3d


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