# MkIV 2.0. Triage of problems with timing belt and DTC P0341. Good Pics.



## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

So I've got my boss's wife's 2000 Jetta in my garage at home. She JUST got the car out of the shop after breaking a timing belt and bending most of the valves. It's throwing the CPS code P0341. I pulled the upper TB cover off and this is what I see:








The TB tensioner has not been installed or adjusted properly.
The flywheel is dead on at TDC per this photo:








and the cam sprocket is "close" (less than one tooth off) per this photo:








And here's a nice shot of the job the Goodyear Tire shop she took it to left the next mechanic with (stripped out hex head from using SAE tools on a metric bolt):








So help me diagnose this thing. Why is the CPS setting a code when the timing appears to be OK? How the HELL did the shop get the timing belt tensioned tight enough to drive the 5 miles home and the 10 miles to my place without grenading?
Both my wife and my father in law complained about the "smell" in the garage after the Jetta parked. 6 hours later I brought in a ball of strands from the last grenaded timing belt and had them smell it. They both choked, coughed, and said THAT'S the smell.
I'm clearly not even going to start this car again until the tensioner is adjusted properly. 
What else do I need to look at here?
My background: Rebuilt a 1996 VR6 motor after a cam sprocket got loose and grenaded a set of valves, which included setting the engine timing from scratch. Have done timing belt jobs on 3 Audi V6 motors. Recently swapped a ZF AWD tranny on my wifes 1999 A4.


_Modified by Variety=Spice at 8:27 PM 1-13-2008_


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

PS. The 6 hours wasn't all diagnostic time. It included cooking some spare ribs for dinner, a little research on Vortex, and a little TV time with the wife.


_Modified by Variety=Spice at 8:54 PM 1-13-2008_


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Improper tension caused the code or a sheared key on the back of the crank gear. It doesn't take being off a lot to set that code.


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

What happened with the head?


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FL 2.0L* »_What happened with the head?

The timing belt broke and bent valves.
What causes the key to shear?


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

The head hasn't been dealt with yet?


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

Sorry, I must have not been very clear. She just got the car out of the shop. The shop did replace the valves and had the head machined...and did the requisite timing belt service.
Are there any cases in which the tensioner pictured in my first photo would be OK? or does the "notch" always have to line up with the "pointer"?


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## GaTeIg (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: (Variety=Spice)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2271429 Check this link. Scroll down a bit there is a pic illustrating the correct tension. Pic and DIY courtesy of vasillalov.


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: (GaTeIg)*

It was those exact photos I saw during my initial research that allowed me to recognize the problem. 
I'm just trying to cover my bases and verify there aren't any cases where the pointer wouldn't line up with the notch, such as a retrofit of the non-auto-adjusting tensioner or any other situation


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Variety=Spice)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Variety=Spice* »_Sorry, I must have not been very clear. She just got the car out of the shop. The shop did replace the valves *and had the head machined*...and did the requisite timing belt service.
Are there any cases in which the tensioner pictured in my first photo would be OK? or does the "notch" always have to line up with the "pointer"?


Bold could cause the the timing to be off.


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## 97VWJett (May 17, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_

Bold could cause the the timing to be off.

That has to be a lot of material


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Bold could cause the the timing to be off.

I was also wondering if the headwork could have changed some of the relationships...


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

does anyone have the spec for how far the head can be milled and still be within tolerances?


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: (Variety=Spice)*

Well, the shop took my advice and had the car towed back to the shop for a 2nd try on the timing belt. Another look at the invoice showed that they didn't include a new TB tensioner. They agreed to install a new tensioner and attempt to get it adjusted properly. I'll update again when there's something to report.


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

How did it run when she drove it back from the shop with the light on?


_Modified by FL 2.0L at 11:34 AM 1-19-2008_


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

she didn't notice anything strange about it


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## reemis (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (Variety=Spice)*

the second go around? once the engine gets poped thats it. even with a remill, belt, valves, and seals... your better off breaking it down to the crank... sooo much can go wrong.... oil in the sensors defformation in th crank it self.... coolent leaks... my advice... rip it down to the iron and start from there, other wise she'll have it back to that crap shop every six months....


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Variety=Spice)*

So maybe the cam and crank were in time despite the slightly lower tension on the belt. Bet the new tensioner gets everything lined up and she's good to go.


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## roortoob (Apr 9, 2007)

the minimum dimension for the head from valve cover gasket surface to head gasket surface is 132.6mm. If they removed enough material to bring the measurement close to minimum spec, the tensioner could look to be off that much. When I installed the head spacer on my AEG the tensioner looked to be WAY off when the belt was properly tensioned. Most of the aftermarket shops (Goodyear, Merchants, etc.)that I know of will use the "twist" method to measure belt tension, even though they have All Data or Mitchell on Demand. Most of the machine shops I've dealt with to have heads milled, valve jobs done, etc. , will measure the parts before and after machining and tell the shop who is subletting their labor if the part has gone underspec. What blows my mind it that you were able to pull shreds of the old timing belt out of the engine bay, and that Goodyear left them there when "fixing" the car. That's just flat out poor practice and a sure way to get a come-back.


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FL 2.0L* »_So maybe the cam and crank were in time despite the slightly lower tension on the belt. Bet the new tensioner gets everything lined up and she's good to go.

Probably not as the CEL was on for the CPS signal, which is what prompted me to look at the timing belt and setup in the first place.
Odd...I did start the car and take some video of it just before turning it over to the tow truck driver. (Just wanted to document that I didn't cause it any problems.) The car wasn't throwing any codes. Wondering if it only throws when the engine is warmed up and all the metal bits have expanded. It will be interesting to watch in the future.
As one of my Audi mentors pointed out, this is one of those cases where you really don't want to be 'the last guy who worked on it' when it goes again.
Thanks for all the ideas and info. I'll update as appropriate.


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## Variety=Spice (Feb 9, 2006)

*Re: (roortoob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *roortoob* »_ What blows my mind it that you were able to pull shreds of the old timing belt out of the engine bay, and that Goodyear left them there when "fixing" the car. That's just flat out poor practice and a sure way to get a come-back.

Blows my mind too. I didn't find any steel strands in there, just a bunch of the smelly fibrous material stuck all around in the upper TB cover. You can see some of them in my last photo above. I didn't remove the lower cover to see what little gems were hiding there.
Here's a couple shots of a 1991 Toyota Camry V6 timing belt that broke on me last year.


















_Modified by Variety=Spice at 2:18 PM 1-22-2008_


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Variety=Spice)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Variety=Spice* »_
Probably not as the CEL was on for the CPS signal, which is what prompted me to look at the timing belt and setup in the first place.


Right. But not so far out as to cause a driveability issue or toss the belt.


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Variety=Spice)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Variety=Spice* »_Wondering if it only throws when the engine is warmed up and all the metal bits have expanded. 

Isn't this a "thermotensioner"? Supposed to give a little more tension when things heat up?


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