# 1.8T into a scirocco2 question



## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

*1.8T scirocco gtx built thread*

am getting ready to swap an 1.8T into my beloved scirocco, my only concern is about the DBW, I absolutely want to keep my DBC setup, can I just swap an DBC throttle (2.0L OBD1, or 1.8T AEB) and use the AEB ecu and harness? or I'll be better to find an AEB, and swap the intake?? 

Also, is there a lot of room between the turbo an the firewall, cause since am RHD, I have the brake rod in the way!!!! 



















thank's


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## zaskar (Jan 17, 2000)

britishrocco said:


> am getting ready to swap an 1.8T into my beloved scirocco, my only concern is about the DBW, I absolutely want to keep my DBC setup, can I just swap an DBC throttle (2.0L OBD1, or 1.8T AEB) and use the AEB ecu and harness? or I'll be better to find an AEB, and swap the intake??
> 
> Also, is there a lot of room between the turbo an the firewall, cause since am RHD, I have the brake rod in the way!!!!
> 
> ...


I probably own one of the only mk4 1.8t with DBC, and im switching to dbw soon just when i'll get time to work on it... It does not have the performance it should, I don't know if it's the crank sensor positioned not exactly at the same place or it's only the bad chip (wich i know for sure)

If you really want to have dbc i'll suggest to get a aeb, but use the mk4 style turbo because with the a4/b5 turbo setup your rear engine mount will be in the way for the downpipe. 

Honestly you should go dbw from the start, really more flexible and tuneable, and fitting the dbw pedal is a peace of cake, you don't need to install the whole pedal assembly, just drill the spot weld on the mk4 pedal assembly and keep the fuel pedal side only... If you want, I got a friend who have a 1.8t for sale AWP (with wide band 02) complete with already the immo bypass. located near st-sauveur.


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## Apsik (Nov 12, 2005)

You doesn't have to be afraid of the DBW setup. As *zaskar* said it is easy to fit.

In UK you can easily find MK4 1.8T 150hp engine code AGU. This is the car with transverse 1.8T DBC engine. The ecu is ME3.8 which is newer than AEB and it is much easier to tune but still narrowband.
For further performance upgrades BDW setup is way better because of the ME7.x ECU equiped with wideband O2 sensor.
Anyway I have seen good 400+ numbers on DBC AGU with GT28RS


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

Apsik said:


> You doesn't have to be afraid of the DBW setup. As *zaskar* said it is easy to fit.
> 
> In UK you can easily find MK4 1.8T 150hp engine code AGU. This is the car with transverse 1.8T DBC engine. The ecu is ME3.8 which is newer than AEB and it is much easier to tune but still narrowband.
> For further performance upgrades BDW setup is way better because of the ME7.x ECU equiped with wideband O2 sensor.
> Anyway I have seen good 400+ numbers on DBC AGU with GT28RS


Thanks

I don't really want hi performance, 150hp in a mk1 seems enough for me, all I want is something reliable. so Ill try to find a dbw motor and swap it to DBC with an AGU or AEB ecu and harness in it. Do I need all the emission thing (O2 sensor and cata)?


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## Apsik (Nov 12, 2005)

what for do you want the DBW motor? Better go AGU from beginning! Same internals as BAM! And you save yourself a lot of work (searching & swapping harness & ecu)


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

Apsik said:


> You doesn't have to be afraid of the DBW setup. As *zaskar* said it is easy to fit.
> 
> In UK you can easily find MK4 1.8T 150hp engine code AGU. This is the car with transverse 1.8T DBC engine. The ecu is ME3.8 which is newer than AEB and it is much easier to tune but still narrowband.
> For further performance upgrades BDW setup is way better because of the ME7.x ECU equiped with wideband O2 sensor.
> Anyway I have seen good 400+ numbers on DBC AGU with GT28RS


 


Apsik said:


> what for do you want the DBW motor? Better go AGU from beginning! Same internals as BAM! And you save yourself a lot of work (searching & swapping harness & ecu)



here in north america we only got the AGU in 2000, those engine start to have ages, so I tought about getting and newer engine and swap it to DBC, but ILL try to find either an AGU, or an AEB.

am not afraid with DBW, but I want to keep the car as oem as possible


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## rstolz (Jun 16, 2009)

> I probably own one of the only mk4 1.8t with DBC,


ummmm, nope. Almost anyone running an SEM will be DBC. Most standalone's just don't have the capability for DBW.

Any intake can be fitted for DBC, you just need the proper throttle body. Say something from ABA, or it's euro equivalent, or early 1.8Ts. There are brackets available that allow you to use a DBW intake for DBC.

As stated already, you will need to make sure you get an ECU from a DBC car or go standalone. 
IMO, going standalone is well worth the coin spent for flexibility and ease of install, especially if it can be premapped and purchased with a harness (enter QPeng.com -Quantum Performance Engineering).

A standalone system can easily be wired into the stock fuse box and made to work with the stock cluster, which can be a challenge using mkiv harness wiring. Basically (again just my opinion) it's easier to retain an OEM appearance going standalone than trying to use all mkIV components. Not to mention almost unlimited tuneability.

as a side note:


> BDW setup is way better because of the ME7.x ECU equiped with wideband O2 sensor.


not all ME7 equipped cars are wideband. I know at least the US version AMU engine (APX euro) is ME7, DBW and narrowband.


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## Apsik (Nov 12, 2005)

I will never agree on that.
Even MK6 harness can be fitted the way to retain an OEM appearance.
And remember !!! the tuneability is as good as your tuner is!!!

APX is narrowband.



> A standalone system can easily be wired into the stock fuse box and made to work with the stock cluster, which can be a challenge using mkiv harness wiring. Basically (again just my opinion) it's easier to retain an OEM appearance going standalone than trying to use all mkIV components. Not to mention almost unlimited tuneability.


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

thank's, just bought an AEB during the weekend, ill rebuilt it during winter time, and swap it in spring.


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## rstolz (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes, any wire harness can be fitted, it's just about which is easier, and comes down to the skill set of whoever is doing it.



> APX is narrowband.


that's what I said. 

you need to be careful, and not rely simply on the fact that the ECU says me7 if you want wideband, since not all me7 applications are wideband. 

You also need the harness to match (wideband/narrowband). an ME7 wideband harness will NOT plug into an ME7 narrowband ECU, and vice versa. I learned that the hard way. There are guide pins and ribs in the plug that stop them from being interchangeable.


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

rstolz said:


> Yes, any wire harness can be fitted, it's just about which is easier, and comes down to the skill set of whoever is doing it.
> 
> 
> that's what I said.
> ...


That's good to know, since I will need an ECU!!!! also do I need all the O2 sensor, cata and such??


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## rstolz (Jun 16, 2009)

not really, depends on if you get tested in your area. I ran a stock ECU for years with no cat, never even bothered plugging in a second 02 sensor (just bundled the wires into the rain tray). you get a code for not having it, but it does not affect driving characteristics in any way.

you need the first 02 (in the DP) but that's it. You should also do the deletes for emmissions crap, SAI and N249, just to eliminate solenoids and vac lines that aren't needed and are failure prone.

Right off the bat I'd invest in a silicone PCV kit with new valve and vac pump, a fresh N75, a fresh "hockey puck," and a new TiP.

None of those stock parts age well, and they can save you hours of frustration in diagnostics.


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

rstolz said:


> not really, depends on if you get tested in your area. I ran a stock ECU for years with no cat, never even bothered plugging in a second 02 sensor (just bundled the wires into the rain tray). you get a code for not having it, but it does not affect driving characteristics in any way.
> 
> you need the first 02 (in the DP) but that's it. You should also do the deletes for emmissions crap, SAI and N249, just to eliminate solenoids and vac lines that aren't needed and are failure prone.
> 
> ...


No were not tested up here, so ill delete much as I can.


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

pile of crap, won't even need half of it!!!!!!


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

rstolz said:


> You also need the harness to match (wideband/narrowband). an ME7 wideband harness will NOT plug into an ME7 narrowband ECU, and vice versa. I learned that the hard way. There are guide pins and ribs in the plug that stop them from being interchangeable.


how can I know which harness I have? am looking to buy an ECU


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## rstolz (Jun 16, 2009)

there are differences in the wiring. A narrowband harness will not have VVT, that's probably the biggest and easiest difference to spot (if you have a connector for it, it's wideband, if you don't, it's narrowband. if you don't know the differences in the ECU plug.

I had pictures of the ECU plugs, but I have no idea where they ended up.

There are also some other minor differences in how things are wired, but you'd need the diagrams for both a wideband and narrowband version to figure it out (Audi TT bentley manual covers both)


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## zaskar (Jan 17, 2000)

britishrocco said:


> how can I know which harness I have? am looking to buy an ECU


You have a aeb harness, it's not mk4 generation, not the same at all, you have a 80 pin while the others have 121 pins ecu... 

If you neeed an ecu, I have on for sale for cheap. im on the north shore of montreal...


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

zaskar said:


> You have a aeb harness, it's not mk4 generation, not the same at all, you have a 80 pin while the others have 121 pins ecu...
> 
> If you neeed an ecu, I have on for sale for cheap. im on the north shore of montreal...


PM'd


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

just bought a TT225 turbo, will it fits strait to my AEB head?


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## rstolz (Jun 16, 2009)

I THINK, it'll bolt up, your bigger issue will be the DP, that'll need to be custom, due to the exhaust outlet position. It was rotated almost 90 degrees for the TT225 so the DP could clear some components. A couple vendors still make them for swaps but they're few and far between. I ordered mine from http://www.qpeng.com/ in the UK, after trying to make one myself.


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

rstolz said:


> I THINK, it'll bolt up, your bigger issue will be the DP, that'll need to be custom, due to the exhaust outlet position. It was rotated almost 90 degrees for the TT225 so the DP could clear some components. A couple vendors still make them for swaps but they're few and far between. I ordered mine from http://www.qpeng.com/ in the UK, after trying to make one myself.


That's what I want to do, but am waiting on a response from them, cause on their site, the K03 down pipe has only three stud and my turbo has four


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

just ordered my downpipe today, now am thinking about the oil pan, I know I have to replace it, and wonder if an oil pan from a 1.9TD will fit, since it already have the oil return line hole???


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

britishrocco said:


> just ordered my downpipe today, now am thinking about the oil pan, I know I have to replace it, and wonder if an oil pan from a 1.9TD will fit, since it already have the oil return line hole???


forget this, just remembered that on 1.9TD the oil line is attached to the block


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

working on the engine, and while I ordered a AGU intake manifold, am looking for an oil pan, and came across a seller that says that an AGU and AWU oil pan are the same, and as I search I found that we in america had the awu engine in the beetle, have you ever try to bolt an AWU oil pan to a AEB block???


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## SpacedOutStar (Aug 23, 2013)

rstolz said:


> Yes, any wire harness can be fitted, it's just about which is easier, and comes down to the skill set of whoever is doing it.
> 
> 
> that's what I said.
> ...


Actually, not all ME7 ECM connectors are different, just depends on the model. The easiest way to tell wideband from narrowband is to count the wires on the pre cat O2 sensor. Narrowband O2 sensors use a 4 wire O2 sensor and wideband O2 sensors use a 5 wire connector. My 2000 A4 has a ATW DBW motor that was narrowband and I swapped it to the AWM from the 2001 model year and it was a simple swap. I kept all of the ATW wiring, used the AWM MAF and ECM which plugged right in without breaking tabs or any modifications, running an extra wire for the pre cat O2 sensor, swapping the pre cat O2 sensor connector, and then running s resister for the VVT. The swap came down to 3 wires, a new O2 sensor, MAF, and ECM and everything else was from the ATW.

Cool swap, I always loved the Scirocco and this looks like it is going to turn out well.


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

> Cool swap, I always loved the Scirocco and this looks like it is going to turn out well.


Thanks, still working on the engine and collecting parts.


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

Painted the block and valve cover today, also I received my AGU intake, throttle, fuel line and injector. Gone clean it tomorow and paint it also, the head is at the machine shop, also, i've made a list of what needed, it's depressing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## britishrocco (Dec 14, 2006)

received my head, putting back the engine


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## zaskar (Jan 17, 2000)

Any updates!?


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