# 02Q 6spd swap from 5spd



## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

So the swap is pretty straight forward when you are changing from one manual transmission to another since it doesn't require software changes. I'm not going to create a DIY but just wanted to post up some of the issues I had. Hopefully this will be helpful or informative for those trying to do the swap and those trying to sell the swap.

During all of my research on here from the others that did the swap say you need to shave a bit off the top of the bell housing so you don't crack the timing cover on the side of the 5cyl motor. THIS STILL HOLDS TRUE AND IS VERY IMPORTANT! This was very easy to do with my hand held grinder.

What I didn't know, and had to find out the hard way, is that my donor car, a 2009 GTI 2.0t with a TSI motor would prove to be different. I had 2 big problems arise that were unexpected that kept the car from driving.

Problem #1: The clutch will not swap from a TSI motor to the 2.5l. The TSI has 8 bolts to hold the flywheel to the crank when the 2.5l only has 6 bolts holding the flywheel to the crank. I was able to get an oe spec aftermarket clutch for a 2006 GTI *FSI mounted up to the 2.5l. The clutch I got is made by Valeo and the kit came with a single mass flywheel (not lightened), disc, pressure plate, slave cylinder/throwout bearing, and new flywheel bolts. 

Problem #2: The shifter would not work because it kept hitting the vacuum pump housing that sticks out on the side of the 2.5l. Specifically the shifter part that controls the front to back movement, the piece that is horizontal and has the shift weight attached, was too close to the vacuum pump housing and when the shifter cable end was installed, fahgetaboutit. I was able to modify the shift cable end so it would "give" when coming in contact with the pump housing. This ghetto mod allowed me to drive around for a few weeks. See video 




The solution for me was to get a short shift kit. I was able to find one from VF Engineering for cheap and snagged it. The short shifter has two settings. I installed it on the shortest setting which gave PLENTY of room to get by the vacuum pump housing without issue. There is enough room that I could put it on the longest setting and still be okay. See video





So a list of parts that I used from the gti:
-FSI clutch kit (includes flywheel, disc, pressure plate, slave/throwout bearing)

-clutch line (3 parts, bleeder valve, long plastic tube, strange 45 degree hard plastic piece that clips directly to the clutch master cylinder)

-starter (electrical connection is compatible)

-reverse light switch (electrical connection is compatible)

-transmission mount

-both axles (the outer ends fit into the stock rabbit bearings/hubs)

-shifter cable bracket

-shift knob*


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

welcome to the 6speed family.


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

thanks!

some of the tools that I got just for this were found at Harbor Freight:

-engine support bar
-transmission jack

I already had a power bleeder purchased from ECS which makes bleeding the clutch the easiest thing ever.

I have had to muscle an 02m (6 spd found in the mk4's) back into the car after replacing the clutch and that was NOT FUN. The transmission jack really helped out.

some people say to drop the subframe to remove/replace the transmission. I can see how it would have been easier, but def not required.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i too used the support bar (with some towels to not scratch the paint) and a tranny jack.

why didnt you go with a lighter flywheel?? its most def an improvement.. and the chatter is very minimal...

how are you liking the tranny?? post up the MPGs you get under normal driving...


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

I didn't get a lightened flywheel because I needed a clutch quick. I expected everything to be a straight swap as the tsi clutch I had was still good. Dubsquared in Arlington, tx really pulled through for me in getting this clutch last minute. Not much for VW aftermarket parts in the Dallas area.

I'm still learning what the rev range is for each gear, but man, the car feels really good at the top of second and pulls good all the way through 3rd. I'm going to get a video of it before too long. I'm really liking the sri power band with this 6 spd.


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

thygreyt said:


> post up the MPGs you get under normal driving...


my mpg's shouldn't be much different if any. The final drive I thought was the same if not really similar.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Needs to be stickied.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

itskohler said:


> Needs to be stickied.


This thread?? Why??

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

I guess if it was more of a DIY it should be.

Nevamind


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## vertigo- (Jun 13, 2001)

Geo said:


> I'm still learning what the rev range is for each gear, but man, the car feels really good at the top of second and pulls good all the way through 3rd.


+1 to this, the before and after was noticeably better.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

itskohler said:


> I guess if it was more of a DIY it should be.
> 
> Nevamind


lol, this isnt such a common mod anyways...

he is actually the 3rd or 4th to have done this.

there are "rumours" or talk about a 1st guy, then there is black death, then me, and now him.

other such as John Q, [email protected], brabbit32, bw performance have done 6spd awd trannies which are similar.


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

Geo said:


> During all of my research on here from the others that did the swap say you need to shave a bit off the top of the bell housing so you don't crack the timing cover on the side of the 5cyl motor. THIS STILL HOLDS TRUE AND IS VERY IMPORTANT!


Yep, ask me how I know.

My biggest suggestion to anyone who does this swap is do simply save up and go for broke since a lot needs to be swapped over.

Your valeo setup unsprung? I ran an unsprung setup for a while with the FourSeasons SMF and OEM clutch. Now I run a Clutchmasters FX100 and only hear a bit of idle chatter.


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> Yep, ask me how I know.
> 
> My biggest suggestion to anyone who does this swap is do simply save up and go for broke since a lot needs to be swapped over.
> 
> Your valeo setup unsprung? I ran an unsprung setup for a while with the FourSeasons SMF and OEM clutch. Now I run a Clutchmasters FX100 and only hear a bit of idle chatter.



Thanks for posting up about your issue so we all didn't have to go through the same disaster.

The Valeo clutch is sprung. It is just like the stock clutch but the flywheel is comparable in weight to the oem but is solid, or single mass.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

John q does NOT have a 6 speed. He has a5 speed now. And if he hasn't reminded everyone he has a turbo lol

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## MasterJetti08 (Mar 1, 2012)

This is a great thread. I've been sent to a few other threads for this but I like this one cause its straight to the point and nothing else involved in the thread. Thanks a lot man for the great info. I really hope I will be able to do this within a year or so.


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## wearethebucs (Sep 14, 2012)

Good little write up! I'm in the middle of doing this on a 2005.5 and have a couple questions. As far as the actual cables and shift box, were you able to reuse them or did you have to get a complete 6 speed linkage and box? Also... Was the round 45 degree piece on the clutch line the same on the 5 and 6 speed? I can get a 6 speed line really cheap but the part that plugs into the master cylinder is broken. I thought I might be able to take the piece off the 5 speed line and reuse it in place of the broken one. (Haven't really looked at it yet) 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

I have read it in more threads and I have to say I am a little surprised about the 8 bolted flywheels in the North-Amerika TFSI's.
Here in Europe they used 6 bolted flywheels in the TFSI models till 2011!


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

I'm swapping gearboxes myself relatively soon. I'd tell other people going this route not to bother getting a true swap and to go it piecemeal.

BFI mount
Aftermarket clutch
Aftermarket clutch line
Lifetime warrentied axles
Dieselgeek shift kit
Heavier shift knob
Upgraded aftermarket starter. 

O2Q Gearbox.
New 02Q reverse light switch. 

The parts list is stupid short. 



Geo said:


> Dubsquared in Arlington, tx really pulled through for me in getting this clutch last minute. Not much for VW aftermarket parts in the Dallas area.


My car is on their website --Tyler does all my custom fab work. He's a crazy 2.5L guy himself. He's shoving a massive ****ing snail and AWD into his bagged JSW. It's a truly badass car.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

your part list is stupid short because is incomplete.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

thygreyt said:


> your part list is stupid short because is incomplete.


What's missing besides hardware? I've already got a 5MT, so there's not much involved IIRC.


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## QfactorB5.5 (Nov 30, 2005)

Would you care to complete it please?

Thanks

Q


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

out of the top of my head its missing the starter, clutch bleeder block, release bearing, all stretch bolts, both sections of the clutch line (thre is one part To the bleeder block and from from it to the pedal. USP sells the stainless braided thats 1/2)

im too lazy to search my own thread where there is a full list of items needed to go from 5spd to 6 speed.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

thygreyt said:


> out of the top of my head its missing the starter, clutch bleeder block, release bearing, all stretch bolts, both sections of the clutch line (thre is one part To the bleeder block and from from it to the pedal. USP sells the stainless braided thats 1/2)
> 
> im too lazy to search my own thread where there is a full list of items needed to go from 5spd to 6 speed.


I've already done some mods that eliminate several required parts. I found out the hard way that I had better plan out my mods before I even bought tires --buying things 2-3 times got really expensive when I was younger.

I already have an aftermarket clutch speed bleeder, so all I need is the front half of the line.

A GTI starter is in my list, specifically a performance starter. Already planning a performance alternator when I do the belts and tensioner, so might as well upgrade the starter while I'm at it.

I guess I should have clarified: slave, throwout, release, fly and clutch are all sold by FST. They're pretty great to deal with --they've saved me a lot of time and money by helping me plan this out.

I assumed people know to buy new hardware. ARP or bust IMHO --OE hardware sucks, and will always suck until the end of time --whereas ARP hardware doesn't suck.

A Dieselgeek shift kit eliminates any need for shifter link ends, but you'll need the bracket. Or you can fab one --which isn't a bad idea. VW's affinity for plastic isn't exactly my cup 'o tea, and I think we have similar feelings about plastic in the engine bay 

And then there's the rest of my list. I'm pretty sure it's complete if you've already modified the clutch line and you're fabricating a bracket. Might need a wiring harness if by some absurd fluke I can't modify the existing one.


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## dmyer24 (May 28, 2021)

Trying to gain as much info as I can through various forums. What year/trans code did you put this 02Q into for?


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## mk3illa (Oct 11, 2007)

dmyer24 said:


> Trying to gain as much info as I can through various forums. What year/trans code did you put this 02Q into for?


Here's a link to my writeup when I did this swap. Another 6speed golf hits the roads!


I used a 2011 CC transaxle, and all the clutch/flywheel and starter should be for the 6 bolt FSI motors. Your 5 cyl has the same 6 bolt flywheel pattern as the mk5 FSI engines. TSI motors have 8 bolt flywheels, so ensure you order the right one.

Most importantly, you'll have to slightly shave the transaxle case where it meets the timing cover. You're playing with fire trying to shave the timing cover, so stick to the transaxle. It has a lot more meat to it, and its unlikely to crack (the timing cover). It's not a lot to take off, maybe 1/8" - 3/16" of material over a 2"-3" area. Use a file, no power tools/grinder.

As far as a donor car, try to find a FSI car.

You'll need:
Axles
Starter
Flywheel (6boltfsi)
Clutch (FSI)

_recommend to change the throw out bearing/slave cylinder_

From personal experience, I'd stray from a lightened flywheel. I had a SPEC kit with a stage 1 and lightweight flywheel, and the chatter is not ideal for daily driving. This also isn't the smoothest operating motor, and the flywheel will remind you. Your call, but I wouldn't have put it in unless it was a track car.

Also a good time to refresh the motor and transaxle while it's all open. Check your cable bushings, axle seals, rear main seal, coolant plumbing. It's the best time to take care of all those issues while you have plenty of room.

Another bit is that the 02q is significantly larger than the 5spd, but it does fit, and you don't have to "massage" the frame to fit it.

Best of luck


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