# Water ingress to cabin from the air conditioning system [TOC-done]



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Water ingress from the aircon*

Hi guys not posted for quite a while.I do keep a watching brief
I have a considerable amount of water in the aircon clearly I have a blocked drain. I have searched for a clue in the FAQ and have found the instructions for the the drains from the roof etc. It is a bit like driving around with half a swimming pool in the aircon. Under braking it slosh's around the central tunnel and moves to the rear aircon outlet and I can hear it around corners. So I have looked under the vehicle for a drain but I am not quite sure of the location. So if somebody could point me in the right area I would be grateful.


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (pilgrim7777)*

Hi I have found the plenem photographs/instructions for the drains.
However I just can't see the them on the underside of the car.....


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (pilgrim7777)*

Hi Terence:


There are two different drains associated with the air handling system. One is the drain for the air intake plenum, which is located aft of the engine on the centerline of the car. It is very easy to see this air intake plenum when you open the hood.
The intake plenum is drained by a very large rubber assembly that hangs down aft of the engine. It's virtually impossible to see this drain unless you have removed the large underbody cover under the engine, have the vehicle up on a hoist, and you look directly upward at the area directly above where the engine and the transmission mate together. Or, you could remove the whole engine and transmission, as I have done below, but that is overkill to get at this drain.








All that being said, I don't think your troubles are associated with this drain, because all it does is drain any liquids that might get into the plenum. If you have water further aft in the air conditioning system - as you have indicated in your message - then I think your problem might be with other (much smaller) drains further aft in the vehicle being blocked.
I'll try to do some research to find out about the location of these other drains in the next few days.
Michael


*Cabin Air Intake Plenum Drain Outlet*


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (PanEuropean)*

Hi
Well things have moved on a pace, The water from the very heavy rain now has seemed to cause every problem in the book.

Resulting the immobiliser coming into action and running down both batteries with alarm going overnight, now unable to start the vehicle.
Whist the batteries were running down to the level that that barely able to power the alarm although the dash board lights just about lighting up, in the end disconnected both batteries.
So my guess is water has entered the electronics and will need time to dry out. It should be interesting to see what happens next......


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (pilgrim7777)*

Hi Terence:
I recommend you open the hood, the cabin doors, and the trunk, and leave the vehicle in the sun for a day. That is what I would do if I had the same problem with aircraft avionics.
Michael


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (PanEuropean)*

Well, I seem to be in a jam. I have got the water out and now charged the batteries and reconnected so the car has power however cannot get the thing to start as a result of the immobiliser and the alarm going all the time together with the indicators and the gear shift indicating the shift should be in park which it is.
Also the key symbol in MFD is illuminated
I have tried to go through the normal procedures of restart after the alarm etc stopping the alarm/immobiliser by turning the key anti clockwise and then going through normal start procedure only to be in the same position as at the start and having to remove the key by inserting a toothpick in the key release mechanism.








How on earth can you deactivate the immobiliser other than via the key?????
So it beginning to look like a flatbed to the dealer next week....

_Modified by pilgrim7777 at 2:45 PM 6-13-2009_

_Modified by pilgrim7777 at 2:46 PM 6-13-2009_


_Modified by pilgrim7777 at 3:05 PM 6-13-2009_


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (pilgrim7777)*

The current situation is after lifting the carpet on the left side of the vehicle the footwell has a considerable amount of water which has infiltrated the the electronics and the circuit board has a mould on it.
Which has been causing problems however still have not identified the source of the water ingress. A investigation into the drain for the air conditioning has yet to done. 
So a order has been placed to replace the circuit board which has a 7/10 day back order. 
Clearly water has been entering the footwell for some time. This was not observable at the time of cleaning the carpet even when removing the surface carpets, meaning the under carpet was not wet to the touch.


----------



## Richard Steckly (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (pilgrim7777)*

I am curious to learn from your experience. After heavy rains here, I too have experienced a similar leak which caused water to collect on the left side of the driver's footwell. The water level was sufficient to damage the starter control module(?). My technician advised that this may not be the first time this car experienced this condition, because the damaged module he removed does not appear to be the original module. Any information that can be provided regarding the source of the water leak is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Richard


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (Richard Steckly)*

Hi just heard the ecu module has arrived and being fitted so as to able move the vehicle hopefully, I will post updates on progress as I get them. The main focus is where and how the water is getting in and why the drains if that is the cause. Since there appears to be no schedule or indication this albeit an irregular inspection clearance task.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (Richard Steckly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Richard Steckly* »_...I too have experienced a similar leak which caused water to collect on the left side of the driver's footwell. ...Any information that can be provided regarding the source of the water leak is greatly appreciated.

Hi Richard:
I think you will find a description of the cause of your problem (and the solution to it) at this post: Water in Cabin Footwell (Cleaning Air Intake Plenum and Sunroof Drains).
Michael


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
Just a thought. Is there any possibility that the problem Terence and others are experiencing could instead be related to your discussion about missing underbody plugs:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3302514 ?


----------



## Richard Steckly (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (PanEuropean)*

Michael:
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you...
There's a cool beverage available for you the next time you're near Georgetown!
Richard


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (Richard Steckly)*

Hi Richard:
Very kind of you to offer. I might actually escape Vancouver Island this weekend and come to Toronto, although I am not sure if I will have time to visit Georgetown...
By the way, I posted new detailed instructions about how to clean sunroof drains onto the end of the above-referenced thread about cleaning leafs out of the area below the air intake plenum.
Michael


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (PanEuropean)*

The stage in the saga of 'water in the footwells' the current situation is the water ingress is from the air con and has filled the whole of the cabin front and rear so we are looking at a considerable amount of water. 
The absorption of the water into the material under the carpet has to a certain extent has hidden the problem for a long time. A certain amount of work is now taking place to to clear the aircon. Again I think Michaels/Rons explanation above maybe more accurate 
The vehicle is now running however the water appears to have damaged the aircon motor fans although this is yet to be confirmed.
The plenum drains were not blocked although an amount of detritus was extracted.


_Modified by pilgrim7777 at 11:36 AM 6-24-2009_


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (pilgrim7777)*

The saga moves on, having changed the ECU in the left footwell has resolved most of the issues. The major issue is the air/con, having changed the motor we are no further forward. The air/con motor is starting then cuts out and guess what we have the hottest few days for some years.....
Currently at a loss where to look next...wiring, fuse box. Any clues would be helpful, the air/control unit is I guess the next place to look..


_Modified by pilgrim7777 at 4:56 PM 7-1-2009_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (Zaphh)*

Be aware that the Phaeton has a number of 'self-resetting' circuit breakers, these are located under the driver seat. I don't think any of these have to do with the HVAC system, though.
Speaking of HVAC (and getting back onto the original topic), below is an illustration of the main HVAC component that is installed in the front middle of the car. The arrow points out the evaporator drains. There are two, one on either side of the device. These drain into tubes that are located at the forward inboard corners of the front seat footwells - not into the large red tube shown in the picture at the top of the thread. If these evaporator drains become plugged, it is possible that water may accumulate in the footwells.
Michael

*Evaporator Drains (2)*
This illustration shows the condensate drain from the evaporator. There is an actual photograph of this drain a bit further down in this discussion.


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (pilgrim7777)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pilgrim7777* »_Currently at a loss where to look next...wiring, fuse box. Any clues would be helpful, the air/control unit is I guess the next place to look..

Terence - any update on your electrical problems?
It's no consolation, but the issue of a blocked rainwater drain flooding the interior and damaging aircon & other electrics affects all makes & types of vehicle. Living beside a huge Lebanese cedar tree for many years taught me this.


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (Aristoteles)*

Hi 
After some 3 weeks of back order for parts, all resolved apart from a current niggle. 
I had not driven at night on getting the car back, setting out to collect my Australian brother I had "a check lights" come on indicating a bulb or a duff LED rear light. On a walk round no sign of any lights failure, any-road got in the car and drove off however after touching the brake pedal all returns to normal. On reaching home and examining all the lights and each individual LED in the rear nothing wrong.
Now very puzzled checked the connections thinking maybe an earthing issue. No further forward after a few days not a serious issue. Saga still to be resolved cannot work out why diagnostic goes away after touching the brake pedal. 
The brake lights all working OK. ???


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (pilgrim7777)*

Perhaps I should have added the solution to the additional problems appeared to be the secound ECU next to the original at least that is what I was informed by the dealer this was an additional couple of hundred pounds, so apart from the niggle of the check lights every thing seems to be OK. It's great to be driving the "thing" again. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Check Lights Warning*

FWIW come nightfall, have friends/family standing fore and aft when you turn on the exterior lights and then do your brake-check. If there are any reluctant bulbs it may be visible to the eye.
Primitive suggestion in the context of the sophistication of the Phaeton, I know, but a good way of confusing your friends which is always worthwhile and fun to do imo.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (PanEuropean)*

Here is a photograph of the two water drain line attachments that correspond to the two attachment points called out on the illustration a few posts higher up.
Many thanks to our "forum friends" at Volkswagen for providing us with this picture.
Michael 

*Air Conditioning Evaporator Drains* 
(there is one on each side of the transmission tunnel)


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Water ingress from the aircon (PanEuropean)*

Also, concerning entry of water into the cabin from the electrical box that is in the very aft corner of the engine compartment (more or less directly below the lower right corner of the windshield on LHD cars), please see this post: Water Leakage into Cabin by way of Electrical Box and note that there is a VW campaign (97Q1) out in Europe to address this problem.
Michael


----------



## aubergine2004 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hi 

What has happened to this illustration? It is not "below" 

-Paul


----------



## aubergine2004 (Oct 2, 2009)

*hvac evaporator drains*

Where is the illustration mentioned in the following: 



Speaking of HVAC (and getting back onto the original topic), below is an illustration of the main HVAC component that is installed in the front middle of the car. The arrow points out the evaporator drains. There are two, one on either side of the device. These drain into tubes that are located at the forward inboard corners of the front seat footwells - not into the large red tube shown in the picture at the top of the thread. If these evaporator drains become plugged, it is possible that water may accumulate in the footwells.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

aubergine2004 said:


> What has happened to this illustration? It is not "below"


 Hi Paul: 

Sorry, the photo and the illustration got lost when Vortex transitioned from the previous forum software to the new 'ZeroForum' forum software. I have re-hosted them above. 

Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Attached is a PDF that explains how to get access to the evaporator drains if it is necessary to check them, service them, or flush out the evaporator condensate pan.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


----------

