# Carbon Build-Up, Intake Valves at 10k Miles, Surprising



## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

For Direct Injection engines only, this is a problem. 
Only oil I know that claims to counter it with chemistry is "Valvoline Modern Engine", but it's not VW-spec oil, only up to the dexos1 level of performance & longevity.

I don't like walnut blasting every 30k miles. Any other alternatives? 

Valvoline tries to explain it at https://team.valvoline.com/diy/truth-behind-carbon-buildup
Anybody have experience with this crusty craziness?

Good youtube video shows the extent:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB5ThYfX7ag


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

Get a euro model with the dual injectors?


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

kgw said:


> Get a euro model with the dual injectors?


 Yes, so strange how VW chose not to give N. America the dual port/direct injectors. Wish I had that.

I may go to the Valvoline Modern Engine (VME) oil. Valvoline has patents, & a track record in recent years of clearing carbon from valve stems & ringpacks in OTR big 18-wheelers. Most of it is centered around the Aniline Point with use of synthetic base stocks combined with POE (polyol ester). I can't figure out exactly what VME oil uses, only what Valvoline Premum Blue Restore truck oil uses. The SDS material sheets for VME do appear to show some missing base oil percentages which could be the POE which doesn't have to be on an SDS. 8,000 mile instead of 10,000 mile oil changes would be the adjustment to using VME.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

I don't get them cleaned until after 100,000 miles...

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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

BsickPassat, yep, many even never clean them. Sick how the guy in the video above found junk on them at just 10k miles. 

I've got 6 quarts of the proper Castrol VW 508-type 0w-20 oil now, so I guess I'll use that up and put in VME later, now at 12,000 miles on an EA888B (Budack low-power 2.0T version) 2019 Tiguan. https://www.automobilemag.com/news/inside-volkswagen-ea888-b-cycle-2-0-tsi-i4/


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

I use a "catch can" on my 2010 Jetta Wolfsburg- same exact 2.0TSI engine. Ive gone over 62 500 miles since install and no appreciable buld up at all. Dealezhip mechanics asked me for the specs of my "external PCV" valve that is keeping the engine so clean. 2 of them now also have Black Forest cans.

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## Greasymechtech (Jul 20, 2019)

Catch can does nothing for valve/intake buildup on GDI-only engines.

I run a yearly IVD cleaner spray on my 2019 Jetta 1.4T

I also cut the oil change interval down to 5000 miles and use a full synthetic media oil filter. There is a direct relationship concerning IVD buildup and oil change interval. 

Since I am turbo, I run top tier premium fuel, which should cut down on injector/piston/chamber deposits. 

And, to keep the GDI injectors clean, I toss in a bottle of PEA based cleaner twice a year.


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

While i also run only premium and full synthetic, the catch can is what eliminated 90% of my deposits.
Also, as these are GDI (gasoline direct inject) meaning the gas DOESN'T flow over the valves - the type of fuel has no effect on the oil blow by that get blasted on the backs of the valves due to turbo recuirc valve.
The BOV and catch can did eliminate that build up on mine.


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

groundnpound, Good points on a catch can. I looked up the Black Forest one, and it looks nice. As for the "need" for a catch can, check out a pro-catch-can (mentions an SAE study) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-B4VRxAtbw for anybody needing more evidence & some 'splaining here.

I might just get a catch can. Looks reasonably easy to install, and very good to (mostly) avoid water, oil, & fuel hitting the intake valves. 
Just hoping it doesn't give VW a lame reason to void the long 2019 six-year warranty!


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

As you are essentially adding a filter it shouldn't but hell, I burned 2 water pumps before VWOA said boo about it, and then wouldn't pay...so....

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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

VWmechatronic said:


> groundnpound, Good points on a catch can. I looked up the Black Forest one, and it looks nice. As for the "need" for a catch can, check out a pro-catch-can (mentions an SAE study) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-B4VRxAtbw for anybody needing more evidence & some 'splaining here.
> 
> I might just get a catch can. Looks reasonably easy to install, and very good to (mostly) avoid water, oil, & fuel hitting the intake valves.
> Just hoping it doesn't give VW a lame reason to void the long 2019 six-year warranty!


It IS easy to install and maintain.

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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

groundnpound said:


> It IS easy to install and maintain.


Got an email sent to Black Forest to check that it will plumb & mount OK on the newer '19 Tiguans. Saw a HumbleMechanic youtube where he put it on a '15 Tiguan, which took slight modifications to the mount to avoid an air conditioner line. Looks like it just takes a little wrenching mostly though. (Surely VW wouldn't void my long 6-year engine warranty, would they?)


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

VWmechatronic said:


> Got an email sent to Black Forest to check that it will plumb & mount OK on the newer '19 Tiguans. Saw a HumbleMechanic youtube where he put it on a '15 Tiguan, which took slight modifications to the mount to avoid an air conditioner line. Looks like it just takes a little wrenching mostly though. (Surely VW wouldn't void my long 6-year engine warranty, would they?)


Id like to think not, but, it certainly has happened for less. In actuality THEY should be putting them on via a TSB everytime they have to carbon clean...

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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

groundnpound said:


> Id like to think not, but, it certainly has happened for less. In actuality THEY should be putting them on via a TSB everytime they have to carbon clean..


Yep, the warranty issue is a concern. They would put a catch can on cars except maybe they are worried about the imposing the frequent maintenance (emptying it out), the water in there freezing, & EPA emissions people do look at how a typical owner would just let the thing overflow or not maintain it at all in many cases.

Black Forest directed me to https://blackforestindustries.com/c...-oil-separator-essential-kit-ek-1-8t-2-0t-mqb as the Catch-Can for the Tiguan MQB 2018-2021. I'm now leaning toward skipping paying the $400 & hoping to keep my engine warranty. Frequent maintenance & freezing water in it doesn't sit well either. It's a judgement call.

One thing to look into is one of the about $50 borescope cameras on Amazon (one with good reviews) to stick through the spark plug hole, and maybe I can turn the front head enough to see the valve stems !

The original post's video above was with a low-miles Golf R with carboned up valve stems. Could be because of the higher power levels and hard driving it experienced. Not sure if our low-power easy life Tiguans would have the same issue(??).

One comment I ran across, from an account of a Valvoline company labs tour, was when an engineer there said the carbon soot generated by DI acts like aggregate strengthens concrete. Valvoline's Premium Blue Restore oil is known to attack carbon, so that's gotta be what they're using in Valvoline Modern Engine oil, you'd think. They aren't saying how it works.


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## groundnpound (May 5, 2011)

I look at it no more than oil changes, adding wiper fluid etc. Emptying the can is even easier now. 
Best of luck to you, sincerely.


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## VWmechatronic (Dec 17, 2019)

VWmechatronic said:


> Only oil I know that claims to counter it with chemistry is "Valvoline Modern Engine", but it's not VW-spec oil, only up to the dexos1 level of performance & longevity.


I found some clues about what Valvoline's chemistry might be to attack or dissolve carbon:

1. The MSDS says there is Ethylene-Di-Amine (EDA, ethylenediamine) in Valvoline Modern Engine (VME) oil. Only hazardous chemicals have to be listed in an MSDS, so this is one of probably other compounds not normally found in motor oil that they use.

2. EDA is an organic amine, and so is the "famous" carbon-eater in Techron fuel treatment & other fuel additive packages, PEA (polyetheramine). Also, Dow Chemical lists EDA as a fuel additive, NOT an oil additive, so it may be unique & effective to use this low-viscosity EDA in VME motor oil.

3. Also in the MSDS, it appears as if the percentages of GroupIII synthetic base oil don't add up, leaving me to think there must be a lot (about half the oil) of Polyol-Ester (polyolester, POE). (The only other base oil component they could use is PolyAlphaOlefins (PAO, 1-Decene Homopolymers), which must be listed in the MSDS, and it's not there.) POE use would match what Valvoline Premium Blue Restore carbon-eating oil uses in big diesel trucks to clean carbon off the rings. POE is a stable base oil, long used in Redline synthetic oil, racing oils, & jet turbine oil. Good stuff, POE.

If using VME, change every ~7,500 miles instead of 10 thousand miles like VW-Audi says we can with VW 508 stuff. The dexos1 standard is close but not as long lasting as VW 508.


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## rodhot (Jan 4, 2012)

as much as i like several VW-Audi newer offerings i will stick to my older 2001 TT + a 2011 frontier SV pickup, retired + drive only as needed, motorcycle in nice weather! todays newer vehicles are overly complicated + $$$$$ IMO. recently did a timing belt kit in the TT, almost like my 2001 jetta 1.8T but tighter working so it tool longer, but my labor is FREE + i have lots of TIME being retired!!


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## GmadGman (Jan 31, 2021)

Water-Methane systems do work indeed, it helps with the carbon cleaning and has increased my oil change intervals, I've done it with Direct injections and my natural aspirated 2.0's and 2.5's , I use 15w40 GTX Diesel Castrol oil, it works.


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