# SMT6 questions answered here.



## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

Lets get these out in public so I don't have to answer the same questions over and over.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

Ok first do you happen to have a smt6 file for a F/I 2.0 with 42# injectors? 
Also could you post more info on how to do the MAP conversion as to get rid of the MAF and not have to run both?


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (StrokedPSI)*

We will be storing the tune maps on my website very soon,so when you get yours done post it up on my site and share it with others.
I recomend you get it running and start tuning without it first.We will get into this in a little bit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
All of my files were on a computer that I no longer own http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

i got question about the SMT7 version can this product be hoked up with a wideband


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (StreetRyda)*

It can be hooked up to a wideband for tunning.I'm not sure what the capabilities are yet,There is only one of these in the US at this time,and I swooped it for one of the A4 guys.We will see how that goes.


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## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

how can i get my hamd on a SMT7?


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## santos_performance (May 31, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

Ok WHere going to use a T-60-1 FMIC , [email protected] JE on the VR6 OBDII the thing is if the SMT6 whit 42 injectors or 50 hr/lb can handle and work to go to run 400hp at the wheels or closer , because the chip that i found not work too good and we have a JETTA 2000 8 Valves that i install a Turbo System works for adjusted in the dyno because we don,t found a chip fot this car 


_Modified by santos_performance at 11:41 AM 1-31-2005_


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (santos_performance)*

??? What ???


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (santos_performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *santos_performance* »_Ok WHere going to use a T-60-1 FMIC , [email protected] JE on the VR6 OBDII the thing is if the SMT6 whit 42 injectors or 50 hr/lb can handle and work to go to run 400hp at the wheels or closer , because the chip that i found not work too good and we have a JETTA 2000 8 Valves that i install a Turbo System works for adjusted in the dyno because we don,t found a chip fot this car 

_Modified by santos_performance at 11:41 AM 1-31-2005_

If you have a chip to get you close on tuning you can fine tune it with a SMT6.
You would have to unplug the O2 sensors on the 2000+ jetta to keep it from adapting to the changes you want to make.


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## santos_performance (May 31, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

We don't have a chip for the jetta 2000 did the smt6 works whitout a chip?
And for the VR6 What?


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (santos_performance)*

It does work,but It will only work up about 50% increase in injector size.


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## lithguy (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

my car is running very rich down low with the eip chip can the SMT6 allow me to set a lower fuel setting than the one on the chip right now?
what are some of the common problems with this system?


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## scarboroughdub (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (lithguy)*

yes it will allow you to trim down on fuel depending on your injectors size, you would use negative numbers in the fields corresponding to that give rpm point and deflection point.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (lithguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lithguy* »_my car is running very rich down low with the eip chip can the SMT6 allow me to set a lower fuel setting than the one on the chip right now?
what are some of the common problems with this system?

Yes it will let you controll the fuel at any RPM,Throttle position,and MAP or coolant temp reading you choose.
I have yet to have any problems with this system.


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## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

hey chuck, i have been seraching through the archieves about smt6, and theres only about a hand full of posts about it. 
i've got couple of questions i'd like to get it straight before buying it and what not
from what ive read, is it true that the smt6 is hard to tune on a 4cyl. 2.0 aba obd2 (F.I)? becasuse initally, i was thikning of getting the apexi safc2 / split sec, but they both dont deal with anything about the ignition timing. so i stumbled upon smt6. 
you also said something about needing a coil pack drive or soemthing from mk1, mk2 to get full ignition control. will i be needing that for my set up? cuz im planning to run a relatively low boost level 8-12 psi with my set up and im aiming for 160-200 whp...
k26
external wg.
smic
bov
g60 green top
double stack headgasket 
this may sound like a stupid question, but i was talking to one guy here on vortex, he was saying how smt6 is standalone... but on the website, it says PIGGY BACK... smt6 IS a piggy back unit right? i was under the assumption that the smt6 is piggy back... can someone clear this up.?
where can i purchase this unit? i cant get through to the distributor page on perfectpower.. and im located here toronto, canada... is there like a local dealer? 
whats the cost for one of these things? i know you cant talk about the $ on vortex here, could you email me with more info about where to purcahse and the $ ?
[email protected]

sorry for all the questions!


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (G-Boi)*

lukasportz is a local dealer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (G-Boi)*

Yes it's a piggyback computer.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (G-Boi)*

The SMT6 mimics a standalone in operation starting from a stock tune map.It will run 30# injectors with a stock or aftermarket chip which is enough for just over 200whp(this is what I suggest to start out with).


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## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

ok i read the manual .. but it isnt clear about the actual tuning part when it comes to the fuel map .. i understand u put values from -127 to 127 (or so) .. if it was only orthogonal it would be pretty easy with a wideband .. and some testing time .. but theres the deflection axis as well.. so now im pretty much lost.. whats deflection ? throttle position ? also how does is that useful in tuning ? i think i can almost grasp it right enough to tune it .. but its a new concept for me ..
an example would clear things up (tuning example or so)
im currently signing up in the site at boostfactoryonline
TIA


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

KOOTER, ok I put in the SMT6 today and it runs like a top. One of the questions I have is why can't I put negative numbers in my injector map? Also the shielding that I told you about a while back worked out well and it took out a ton of noise in the lines, I did the install at work so I got to actually look at everything with the O-scope. Anyway thumbs up for a good system so far. Oh what is the analog map actually changing when values are added in there?


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (StrokedPSI)*

What shielding technique did you use ?
My SMT is still unwired.. So if you have tips, LMK
Thanks 
d


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_KOOTER, ok I put in the SMT6 today and it runs like a top. One of the questions I have is why can't I put negative numbers in my injector map? Also the shielding that I told you about a while back worked out well and it took out a ton of noise in the lines, I did the install at work so I got to actually look at everything with the O-scope. Anyway thumbs up for a good system so far. Oh what is the analog map actually changing when values are added in there?

If you are using it as a AIC then the value of zero is a zero milisec of injector open time.No injection less than zero







.The analog map is for tuning MAF or MAP signals kida like a SAFC.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (liquidtension)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquidtension* »_ok i read the manual .. but it isnt clear about the actual tuning part when it comes to the fuel map .. i understand u put values from -127 to 127 (or so) .. if it was only orthogonal it would be pretty easy with a wideband .. and some testing time .. but theres the deflection axis as well.. so now im pretty much lost.. whats deflection ? throttle position ? also how does is that useful in tuning ? i think i can almost grasp it right enough to tune it .. but its a new concept for me ..
an example would clear things up (tuning example or so)
im currently signing up in the site at boostfactoryonline
TIA

Deflection is where you step on the throttle and full throttle reads 100% and no throttle reads 0%.
As far as me coaching you on how to tune,I can only help you with simple thoery over the internet.I can't really tell you how to go about finding what you need to change for the results you want.


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## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

aha well theory will be great ! if its not too much to ask


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## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (liquidtension)*

also if u can get me a link to some already made fuel maps for a case like mine ..etc. it will be nice and real good for me.. i checked that site but theres no map files for smt6 there


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (liquidtension)*

OK here is the deal dude.You probably have the only pug injected VW in the world.There is no wa in hell anybody is going to have a ready made map for this system.It just doesn't work like that








You have to tune it yourself http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

i think he should know that.
we all should know that no single map is gonna do for all of us. we all have different cars, different set ups, it wont work.
but i think for starters, maybe he wants to use someone else's map as a reference?
maybe im speaking on my behalf because i know it is frigthening to tuen all that stuff yourself when you have no idea. again, its not right to copy all the info for obvious reasons, but just as a reference. so ppl get the general idea of how it works.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (G-Boi)*

You see this screen here?This is the main tune screen.If you take all the #s in all of the fields and change them to zero,the car will run exactly like it ran before you hooked up the unit.Then all you do is take the point you want to change and tune + or - with the #s and you can achieve the desired results.Its really pretty simple and there is no base map needed.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

Also another thing, for some reason my deflection is reversed. At idle I sit at about 89% and with it floored it's at like 13%. The instructions said to add 5% to the bottom and subtract 5% from the top. I had to play with the lower # to be able to get the red square to go to the high engine load column (which is the 13% column). Is this common on Jetta's? Also do I need the low input on or off in the global settings? Thanks

_Modified by StrokedPSI at 3:08 PM 2-19-2005_


_Modified by StrokedPSI at 3:08 PM 2-19-2005_


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## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

KOOTER i know that im not going to find a perfect ready-made map for my setup ... i just need any example of a modified map for a boosted car using a mass flow (MAF) based EFI.. that way ill get the whole deflection thing sorted out in my head and then make my own map thats similar to the example map
obviously i want to use bigger injectors (30#'s) so ill have to put negative values at the idle and negative values at normal driving.. but when the turbo spools ill put sufficient values to use the 30#'s right with the boost.. but where does the deflection thing play a role.. like what do i want to do with that ? an example map file would be a plus http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanks


_Modified by liquidtension at 11:36 PM 2-19-2005_


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## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (liquidtension)*

well i the picture u posted just loaded up and things are clearer now.. the graph is exactly like i thought it would look like .. an opaque ~plane which is obvious
if you have any more helpful stuff to post dont hesitate
thanks


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (liquidtension)*

They make some pretty large jumps in the cell values in the map above.That I do not recomend.


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## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

well, ok, can you post one that you recommend ? thanks!


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

KOOTER, have you tried to either run a MAP sensor instead of the MAF or in conjunction with the MAF? Neil from PP said it should work fine without the MAF, but I just wanna verify.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (LoGIc)*

I always run a 2 or 3 bar GM map sensor in conjunction with the MAF.I haven't tried the MAF-MAP conversion yet.


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## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

KOOTER what exactly is your relation with SMT-6 and perfect power ? if u dont mind me asking


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KOOTER* »_I always run a 2 or 3 bar GM map sensor in conjunction with the MAF.I haven't tried the MAF-MAP conversion yet.

You're using the injector MAP screen for MAP sensor tuning right?


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_You're using the injector MAP screen for MAP sensor tuning right?

Nope.I use the temp compensation colum to tune the map compensation.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (liquidtension)*

I sell the SMT6 at my shop.I am one of the few people that has experience installing these units on VWs so rather than answering tons of emails and IMs its easier to just come here and answer them.


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## simon_mk2 (May 5, 2003)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

Hi Kooter, did you have any experience about smt6 with corrado digifant 1 (25pin ECU)?
Did it fix both ignition and fueling?
thanks for the suggesting! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

Any idea why my deflection is in reverse?


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I think VW has 0V for full throttle and 5V at idle - contrary to most systems.
Addendum : Any of you have problems communicating with the laptop ? Some users in the Bimmer forums reported lousy connections ??
BTW - check this out
http://www.locustom.com/smt.htm


_Modified by fastslc at 3:48 PM 2-21-2005_


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KOOTER* »_Nope.I use the temp compensation colum to tune the map compensation.

Ok, what wire on the SMT6 do you connect the MAP signal wire to? Btw, this column is labled '*AEng Temp*' right?


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_Ok, what wire on the SMT6 do you connect the MAP signal wire to? Btw, this column is labled '*AEng Temp*' right? 

I can't remember the wires off the top of my head.I do know you use the temp sensor wire and one of the pull up wires.Yes you tune it in the temp colum.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_I think VW has 0V for full throttle and 5V at idle - contrary to most systems.
Addendum : Any of you have problems communicating with the laptop ? Some users in the Bimmer forums reported lousy connections ??
BTW - check this out
http://www.locustom.com/smt.htm

_Modified by fastslc at 3:48 PM 2-21-2005_

Yes VW TPS sensors are backwards so you have to tune the map backwards.This is not a problem if you can stand on your head








I have not had any comunication problems except when I was using a super slow lap top for a while.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (simon_mk2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *simon_mk2* »_Hi Kooter, did you have any experience about smt6 with corrado digifant 1 (25pin ECU)?
Did it fix both ignition and fueling?
thanks for the suggesting! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

If you removed the MAP sensor and ran it external you could use it for this purpose(you could also probably use a 3 bar unit).
You would laso have to use an auto passat or auto corrado throttle body with TPS.
I am having some trouble getting the ignition to adjust timing in the digi 2 units and would probably be the same for digi 1.


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## simon_mk2 (May 5, 2003)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

It seems not easily to use on Digi1 system








Anyway, thanks for reply. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (simon_mk2)*

I just took a look at the wiring diagram for the corrado and they use it on the CO pot in the intake.That should work just fine as well.I would still run a TPS sensor though.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

how do you hook up to read the temp?


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I usually hook up the temp to a MAP sensor and use it like that.


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## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

Kooter can you run a map from SMT6 to a SMT7?


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (simon_mk2)*

For fuel it would work just fine.I'm having a hard time getting the timing to work properly on the digifant.


_Modified by KOOTER at 9:04 PM 2-24-2005_


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (StreetRyda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StreetRyda* »_Kooter can you run a map from SMT6 to a SMT7?

No I cant see how they could be directly imported.You could however probably plug the #s in manually.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

WHat do you mean hook up the map to the temp?


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

If you use a pull up wire you can run the map compensation in the temp colum.


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## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

this is your second mention of using a 'pull up wire' what does this mean?
(sorry if its obvious)


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

Ok I just did a little street tuning at 10psi with a tt chip made for 20psi and 42# injectors with the smt6. If you make analog adjustments too large does the ecu disregard the MAF and use the O2 and temp for fuel correction? The reason why I ask is that I was playing with the settings and if you move the numbers by one or two at a time (while driving) you can feel it but say you go 10 at a time there's no difference. Also, using the MAF and tuning the analog section is it possible that having a CEL for high voltage MAF would cause the ecu to not respond to the changes? Oh, I'm going to try to do the MAP conversion and completely getting rid of the MAF, any suggestions? Thanks


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Try clearing the codes and see when the light comes on.Also watch your output voltage and make sure its less than 5v.


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Under the Analog tab of the Global Settings, set the 'Fuel Upper Limit' to 4.90 and the 'Fuel Lower Limit' to 0.82. This will add a voltage clamp and prevent the too High/Low voltage of the MAF. When I did this, I never saw the EPC light again.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_Under the Analog tab of the Global Settings, set the 'Fuel Upper Limit' to 4.90 and the 'Fuel Lower Limit' to 0.82. This will add a voltage clamp and prevent the too High/Low voltage of the MAF. When I did this, I never saw the EPC light again.

Right on.I never used that before.


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## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

kooter
could you post some links or pics of the wiring diagram on a aba obd2 2.0 engine?
i cant seem to find it..


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

The pin outs are the same for the vr6 in the tech section on my site.
http://excoboard.com/exco/forum.php?forumid=55199


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_Under the Analog tab of the Global Settings, set the 'Fuel Upper Limit' to 4.90 and the 'Fuel Lower Limit' to 0.82. This will add a voltage clamp and prevent the too High/Low voltage of the MAF. When I did this, I never saw the EPC light again.


Sweet, I never thought of that. I'm going to try it tomorrow.


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## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

"Under the Analog tab of the Global Settings, set the 'Fuel Upper Limit' to 4.90 and the 'Fuel Lower Limit' to 0.82. This will add a voltage clamp and prevent the too High/Low voltage of the MAF. When I did this, I never saw the EPC light again."
is that speficically for mk4? or mk3 as well????
whats the pt of doing that?


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Also, doing this with the upper and lower fuel limits, will that allow me to run an open BOV because I have a piece of old vacuum hose http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif on it and it looks like crap? I would assume it would becasue when we stop the car stalls becasue the MAF sends the ecu a very low voltage right?


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

I would assume that the mk4 and mk3 would both be the same because they both have a 0-5v MAF sensor. So when you're boosting you don't go past the ecu's upper threshold for the MAF voltage when it's seeing way more air than it's supposed to in a n/a setup.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

What numbers are you guys using for the upper and lower deflection in a mk3? I'm using 13.7% and 89.8% but it's in reverse though so the 13% is my full throttle. The thing is, is that when I go full throttle while driving, the cursor won't go to the full deflection column???


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Jujst make sure you cover the whole range of full throttle to no throttle in all colums otherwise you will loose resolution.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

But when I use the little formula they tell you to do in the manual it won't go to the full throttle column even when the engine is not running. I had to move the range on both sides up a little so it would do it when I tromp it without the engine on. Would it hurt anything if I move my lower deflection number (full throttle value) up a little so I actually hit the last column while at full throttle and actually driving?


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_"Under the Analog tab of the Global Settings, set the 'Fuel Upper Limit' to 4.90 and the 'Fuel Lower Limit' to 0.82. This will add a voltage clamp and prevent the too High/Low voltage of the MAF. When I did this, I never saw the EPC light again."
is that speficically for mk4? or mk3 as well????
whats the pt of doing that?

The point is MAX voltage that the ECU see's no matter how much boost is 4.90. You have to be careful with this though, as MUST have enough fuel to compensate for this. I recommend you bump up the last two columns of your fuel MAP and start to trim downwards.


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_Also, doing this with the upper and lower fuel limits, will that allow me to run an open BOV because I have a piece of old vacuum hose http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif on it and it looks like crap? I would assume it would becasue when we stop the car stalls becasue the MAF sends the ecu a very low voltage right?

I still routed my BOV back in. Remember, all that air that's vented to the atmosphere is STILL metered, so the ECU is still gonna give the engine fuel for that. And since you're clamped, there is actually more air in the engine than the ECU thinks. Maybe a larger MAF might allow you to do this as there's less chance you'll hit that Fuel upper limit.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_I still routed my BOV back in. Remember, all that air that's vented to the atmosphere is STILL metered, so the ECU is still gonna give the engine fuel for that. And since you're clamped, there is actually more air in the engine than the ECU thinks. Maybe a larger MAF might allow you to do this as there's less chance you'll hit that Fuel upper limit.

I think he's going to try the MAP conversion.
As soon as you come off idle the curser should move to the next colum.Jus as tou reach full throttle the curser should also reach full throttle.


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## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

when you say "bump up" the last 2 columns of the fuel map, like do you "bump" it up based on a factor??
eg. 1.5 times, 2 times more than the original? 
is that what you mean?
also a bov that dumps the air out to the atmosphere is bascially bad because its venting metered air... so are you guys all running DV's instead of bovs?


_Modified by G-Boi at 1:24 PM 2-28-2005_


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*



G-Boi said:


> "Under the Analog tab of the Global Settings, set the 'Fuel Upper Limit' to 4.90 and the 'Fuel Lower Limit' to 0.82. This will add a voltage clamp and prevent the too High/Low voltage of the MAF. When I did this, I never saw the EPC light again."
> 
> 
> > I tried this today and, no dice. I still get the maf high voltage. ONe more CEL I'm getting is fuel trim too rich. One fix at a time I guess...
> ...


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## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (liquidtension)*

right, i get all that..
since the ecu is still giving the appropriate amount of fuel according to the metered air by the maf, that air is being vented by the bov so i know it would cause the car to buck due to the richness.

_Quote, originally posted by *liquidtension* »_almost everybody's running BOVs with MAFs ..








even the 1.8T guys run BOVs and get CELs...

since most ppl are running bov with mafs, are they all experiencing this bucking effect due to the richness? is it s big problem in the long run?


_Modified by G-Boi at 5:06 PM 2-28-2005_


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_I tried this today and, no dice. I still get the maf high voltage. ONe more CEL I'm getting is fuel trim too rich. One fix at a time I guess...

Ok two things....What size injectors are you running and what is your 'Fuel Zero Calibration' set to?
Also, modify the SMT6 screen to display the 'Analog Out' value. This is done by clicking 'Setup Display' on the bottom right and check the 'Graph ON' checkbox by Analog Out and select Text Indication (Posi 8). Now, as you go through your RPM ranges, look at this value to see if it ever reached 5v.


_Modified by LoGIc at 6:42 PM 2-28-2005_


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

Ok I'm using 42# bosch's with a custom TT chip for them. My "fuel zero cal" is at -1. I have it set up so I can watch the analog out, I just haven't been able to see how high it gets yet. What do you use to view data log, because mine is just a bunch of numbers that don't mean anything because there's no title on the columns?


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_Ok I'm using 42# bosch's with a custom TT chip for them. My "fuel zero cal" is at -1. I have it set up so I can watch the analog out, I just haven't been able to see how high it gets yet. What do you use to view data log, because mine is just a bunch of numbers that don't mean anything because there's no title on the columns?

You have to enable curser tracing, then when you playback the .raw file, you can see where you are throught the rpm range. Settign the Fuel Upper/Lower limits should clamp the ECU so it doesn't see past 5v. Your next option would be to get a larger MAF.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

If you get too far away from what the ECU is trying to do you will get a buck when the ECU switches between open and closed loop.The reason your throwing the CE light is because are fighting the ECU.Put a vag com on it and see how much the ECU is trying to compensate(I forget what they call that on vag com).It should be at zero.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Kooter aka Slappy Nut
Do you typically keep the O2 sensor plugged in with the SMT-6 ?
Coz at part throttle, NON WOT, you are still closed loop. So if you use the SMT6 to compensate for "richness" due to larger injectors, won't the ECU pull back ?
How do you get away with that ?
However, if you do your initial tuning with the 02 plugged in and get the tuning "right", then unhook the 02 sensor, won't you then "lock" in the values and voila.. done.. Zero adapation or trim due to lack of feedback.
d


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (liquidtension)*

i may be wrong, but not all bovs can be re-routed right?
i thought only certain type of bovs with that capability can do so but not the genearl type


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (liquidtension)*

those 1gen dsm bov can be rrerouted?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (fastslc)*

If you unhook the O2 sensor and tune it to stoich under normal driving and idle you should be golden when you do plug the O2 sensor in.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Kooter,
I thought it was the other way around
Tune with O2 sensor and then pull it out.. ??
Basically do the same thing as C2 Msport does !! ??
Maybe I am confused.
U care to explain if you got a chance !


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_those 1gen dsm bov can be rrerouted?

That's exactly what I'm using. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I actually just set all my settings back to 0's and started moving the '0' calibration down. It seems pretty good right now with everything at 0 except the idle. But I tried putting all the lowest colum blocks to 0's and no more misfires. Ok more tomorrow... How's everyone elses tuning coming?


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Since I'm also using larger injectors (42#), I had to set my Fuel Zero Calibration to -10 for perfect idle. At -12 (original setting) the car would hunt at idle. This Fuel Zero Calibration is what actually set the the injector pulse width.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

Did you have to play with the idle square on the map at all after you set it to -10? Because right now I'm at all 0's on the map except for my idle box is at +6, and the '0' cal is at -9. It still hunts a little bit, so I'm going to play with it a bit more. 
Oh yeah, can running lean cause the exhaust to pop like when you're running rich?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

There are two different ways to tune these.You can unhook the O2 sensor and use another O2 to set the A/F at stoich at idle and part throttle.Then when you plug the O2 sensor back in it doesn't see the need to change the short or long term fuel trim.Tune boost to whatever you like at this point.This is also where you can hook up a MAP sensor to the temp colum for best results.You can plug it back in after your done if you like.
You can also tune the thing based off the long and short term fuel trim on your VAG COM.This takes longer but will work just as well.
If you start to run too lean under part throttle you may have to unplug the O2 sensor all togher.


_Modified by slappynuts at 4:52 AM 3-2-2005_


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (liquidtension)*

Could you guys please take your off topic BOV talk somewhere else please.


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

sure







.. im going to delete my posts as well to clean it up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Ok maybe I'm not getting it but, you hook up a map sensor to the temperature wire from the smt harness and then what? Also where can you get a pin out of the smt wires and what they're used for?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Everything is available on their site.
You will need to use a pull-up wire on the map sensor,I'll try to get that info later today.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

I guess everything is not available on their site.I have access to it though.
To run a MAP sensor in the analog maps on a VW you need to wire the map sensor to the AFM 5v power supply to supply the MAP the proper voltage.You also need to groung the ground on the MAP sensor.This will give you a proper signal to use for compensation in the temp colum.You need to wire #10(black/white wire)and #11(green/yellow wire)togher and hook those up to the signal from your MAP sensor.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

i know its kidna stupid to ask..
but whats the point of hooking up the MAP sensor in the temp column?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

So you can add fuel and change the timing as per intake pressure.


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_I guess everything is not available on their site.I have access to it though.
To run a MAP sensor in the analog maps on a VW you need to wire the map sensor to the AFM 5v power supply to supply the MAP the proper voltage.You also need to groung the ground on the MAP sensor.This will give you a proper signal to use for compensation in the temp colum.You need to wire #10(black/white wire)and #11(green/yellow wire)togher and hook those up to the signal from your MAP sensor.

This is EXACTLY the information I was looking for.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

this MAP sensor, im assuming its an extra part that i'd have to get if i were to hook it up right??
but one thing im not too certain is that, i thought the smt6 can allow to add fuel and change timing even wihtout a map sensor... or am i wrong?

what is the advantage to having a MAP over MAF?
is it partly due to the fact that MAF is regulated by a ranged value (0-5v) vs. MAP, where it has a greater flexibility to it?


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

MAF sensor: mass air flow sensor
MAP sensor: manifold absolute pressure sensor
MAF isnt meant for turbo's as much as the MAP ..(for example the g60 came with digi1 (map)
MAP is superior to the MAF:
the MAF cant sense boost whereas a MAP can 
when your turbo boosts then the MAF wont know that there is alot more air going in
with a MAP you can use a BOV venting to the atmosphere
also its easier to tune with a MAP instead of guessing when the turbo will spool and whatever.. you just add fuel and retard timing when boost comes ..
HTH, im sure there are a ton more advantages 
2.5bar MAP sells for like $80 and the 4bar for $110
btw id like to ask a general question.. what is the price of smt-6 ?
you mentioned $275 shipped if i send you $275 can you send it to california ?
cuz on this site it seems its more expensive so i was wondering
http://www.locustom.com/smt.htm
thanks


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (liquidtension)*

Lots of turbo cars run MAFs.We are using the MAP as a boost reference and get better tunability under boost.Yes you will either need a GM or Mopar MAP sensor.


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

i was finally able to download the installation manual and read it .. it seems fairly easy.. connect it to power then connect the TPS to the brown wire and then the MAF and to the blue and comes out modified through the violet wire.. and then the crank sensor signal to the yellow wire ... (im not interested in timing so that'll be enough for now) 
so basically its that easy ? i didnt understand though how im supposed to tap into the PINS in the ECU .. am i supposed to cut through the lump of wires that go to the ECU that are protectec by the plastic ? and then check each wire to know which is which ? can you clarify that for me ? thanks


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

cool, thanks for both response.
so can i still use a bov with maf and map sensor with smt6?
cuz i already have a forge bov, and since i cant recirculate it.. im afraid it might give me some problems
im planning to purchase a smt6 sometime in the near future, but what im unsure of is the wiring, and now, wiring the map sensor
can anyone help me with that?


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

the problem is that not alot of people are using smt-6..
so theres not alot of support for it like SDS and other common fueling solutions for turbo vw applications
ive heard that two people know alot about the system: Bob Ida , and KOOTER (slappy nuts) 
as you can see the newbie questions arent getting answered here.. but i think if we actually buy the system we might get more support
so im going to get it soon.. even if nobody helps out its still a good system to have around ..worth every penny..or ull just have to do things the hard way and figure things out by your own.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

Not a problem its pretty basic to hook up.You will get a wiring diagram that goes with your car(or whatever car yours came from).Its not that hard.


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (liquidtension)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquidtension* »_the problem is that not alot of people are using smt-6..
so theres not alot of support for it like SDS and other common fueling solutions for turbo vw applications
ive heard that two people know alot about the system: Bob Ida , and KOOTER (slappy nuts)

I've been running it for a year now and its almost perfect. I still use a stock ecu and never run out of fuel. I think if more people getthe unit and try it, they're see it as a great, if not better, alternative to chipping.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (liquidtension)*


_Quote, originally posted by *liquidtension* »_the problem is that not alot of people are using smt-6..
so theres not alot of support for it like SDS and other common fueling solutions for turbo vw applications
ive heard that two people know alot about the system: Bob Ida , and KOOTER (slappy nuts) 
as you can see the newbie questions arent getting answered here.. but i think if we actually buy the system we might get more support
so im going to get it soon.. even if nobody helps out its still a good system to have around ..worth every penny..or ull just have to do things the hard way and figure things out by your own.

What type of questions do you have?They are easy to hook up.They are easy to tune if you know what you need to change.Yes you will have to reroute your BOV.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

see, the problem is, my forge bov cant be recirulated...
and i have a hunch thats gonna a problem.
btw, do i HAVE to get a MAP sensor to control my ignitition timing?


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: kooter*

you guys are helpful im not saying you arent.. but you have to realize that im a retard when it comes to electronics .. not everybody here is as experienced as you guys are.. i just turned 19 and we get the driver license here at 18! i bought the gti after a couple months, taught myself to drive and turbo'd the car 6months later.. i didnt know anything about cars at all (AT ALL) when i first got the car..
i get the idea of the wiring after reading the installation manual .. and im sure its very easy but i just need the little details like where is the crank sensor signal and how am i supposed to tap into the PIN's in the ECU ? im guessing i need to use the wires that go into that plastic thing that goes into the pins right ? cuz i cant tap into the PINS at the pins themselves.. (i know its silly but i just want to clarify a few details that arent mentioned in the installation guide)
im scared cuz i feel like im the only one running L-jetronic from a peugeot on vwvortex.. and i couldnt find the wiring diagram for L-jet on the site in the peugeot section so i wont know which pins to T into.. plus i dont have a scope as the manual says to figure them out.. and as i said im not good with eletronics im sure i can do it by myself but i dont have unlimited time to research and everything.. so a little newbie info would be great 
maybe other people will get interested as well
TIA


----------



## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: kooter (liquidtension)*

ok so if i get this set up , i can get rid of my maf , run a gm MAP sensor , and it will still be scanable ?? from obdII . also if i get rid of the maf i should be able to run a atmosphere BOV(well in theroy?) please i want to to this i just need to know more!!!


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## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (EvilVento2.oT)*

yes


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: kooter (EvilVento2.oT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EvilVento2.oT* »_ok so if i get this set up , i can get rid of my maf , run a gm MAP sensor , and it will still be scanable ?? from obdII . also if i get rid of the maf i should be able to run a atmosphere BOV(well in theroy?) please i want to to this i just need to know more!!!

I've never actually tried tha MAF to MAP conversion though I know its possible.Yes on everything else.


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## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: kooter (slappynuts)*

hey chuck
i know this is kinda OT but my IM isnt working, and i need to speak to you about buying your smt6
do you have msn? or email?
shoot me an email or msg me on msn, its [email protected]


----------



## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: kooter (G-Boi)*

well what is involved in the maf to map conversion?


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

hey chuck can you send an email to [email protected] please? my IM is screwwed
i think you should shoot me an email


----------



## richyrich212t (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

anyone have a wiring schematic for a mkiv 2000 1.8t AWD motor ?


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (richyrich212t)*

perfectpower.com


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: kooter (EvilVento2.oT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EvilVento2.oT* »_ well what is involved in the maf to map conversion?

http://www.idaautomotive.com/c...n.htm


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_hey chuck can you send an email to [email protected] please? my IM is screwwed
i think you should shoot me an email

My email is [email protected] or you can hit me up on AIM at KOOTER1969


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: kooter (slappynuts)*

I wonder what the disadvantage (If any) of the MAF to MAP would be. If you think about it, most factory turbo cars come with both.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: kooter (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_I wonder what the disadvantage (If any) of the MAF to MAP would be. If you think about it, most factory turbo cars come with both.

Ideally you would remove the MAF and run a MAP,then use the temp compensation for temp compensation.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: kooter (slappynuts)*

so chuck, are you saying to completely remove the maf?? but is that possible on vw?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: kooter (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_so chuck, are you saying to completely remove the maf?? but is that possible on vw?

I'm saying that it can be done and would be ideal,but it would take alot more tuning than I allow most customers.


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## scarboroughdub (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: kooter (slappynuts)*

im currently running the smt6 on my car im using the analog map for injection fuel control and im also using the smt6 to control my timing and as a additional injector controller. all these options work great im able to adjust timing + - 12 deg and i will be doing the maf to map swap this week and i curreny run a HKS bov and i have no problems with unmetered air. the wiring is fairly simple but there is no diagram for the aba motor only the vr6 motor which is not exact. as for the maf to map conversion it is not as difficult as you guys are making it allyou have to do is monitor the voltages coming from the maf under idle and driving conditions and then duplicate them with the map under the analog adjustment map.


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: kooter (scarboroughdub)*

do all MAF's use a 0-10v signal ? i was told that l-jet wont work with smt6 since the MAF uses 0-12v signals and smt6 can only handle 0-10v 
does anybody know anything about this 
maf part #: 0280202097
ok i searched google using the part # and found this translated site:
http://translate.google.com/tr...3Doff
it says below the MAF info:
" Limit (22) of the calculator: 6.8 ± 1 Volts.
adjustment by action on the screw of richness on the flowmeter (screw 6 hollow sides of 5 mm) " 

so that means the max signal it can give is 7.8 right ? can anyone confirm this 100% so i can go ahead and buy smt6!?


_Modified by liquidtension at 10:33 PM 3-6-2005_


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: kooter (scarboroughdub)*

hey rad, since you've already got the smt6 hooked up to the aba, what are some of the things to know about?
im planning to hook mine up so i can control ignition timing, and fuel.
is it possible to do a break down of which wire from the smt6 to which wire on the ecu/possible sensor?
i think that would help out a lot, not just for me, but to anyone that needs some reference


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: kooter (G-Boi)*

Every nAFM signal i've ever seen is 0-5v(even lh jetronic).If your idiot mechanic thinks its a 12v signal then he probably hooked up a 12v signal to the sensor and probably fried a whole bunch of stuff(ecu/maf and other things).
I have the developers manual and have much more info than most of you guys.If I can help just let me know.Some of you guys are well on your way though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: kooter (G-Boi)*

Right now, I fail to see how a pure MAP conversion would be an advantage over MAF
1. You will still max the "voltage" and send a "saturated" signal to the ECU. (The MAP sensor will not max out per say, but the voltage will be more than what the ECU can tolerate) - Unless you do rescaling
2. You still need to tune the load tables 
Unless you use C2's approach where you pretend that your MAP sensor is scaled.
eg
Standard MAF signal is ~1V idle to 3.3V n/a
Standard MAF signal is ~1V idle to 5V (rougly 6-7psi) - VR6 MAF
Now
If you use an oversized MAF (C2)
Standard MAF signal is ~0.3V idle to 5V (let's say 15 psi) - dunno the exact value.
So in theory you could from the get go emulate the SMT6 to reflect a larger MAF and map those voltages to the MAP sensor and do the fuelling accordingly ??

d


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: kooter (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_Right now, I fail to see how a pure MAP conversion would be an advantage over MAF
1. You will still max the "voltage" and send a "saturated" signal to the ECU. (The MAP sensor will not max out per say, but the voltage will be more than what the ECU can tolerate) - Unless you do rescaling
2. You still need to tune the load tables 
Unless you use C2's approach where you pretend that your MAP sensor is scaled.
eg
Standard MAF signal is ~1V idle to 3.3V n/a
Standard MAF signal is ~1V idle to 5V (rougly 6-7psi) - VR6 MAF
Now
If you use an oversized MAF (C2)
Standard MAF signal is ~0.3V idle to 5V (let's say 15 psi) - dunno the exact value.
So in theory you could from the get go emulate the SMT6 to reflect a larger MAF and map those voltages to the MAP sensor and do the fuelling accordingly ??

d

I really don't think you understand what there units do.They giveyou the ability to scale the voltages to whatever you want at any point.Linear or non linear,it doesn't really matter because the voltage is scaled to match whatever type of sensor your using.If you have 3vn MAF sensor voltage input then you scale the MAP voltage at that point to equal the same voltage.Because the output voltage is scalable to all operating conditions you can eliminate the MAF by using the MAP sensor to duplicate the MAF voltage.This also extends to operating conditions that are out of the normal range that the ECU will still see as a voltage vs injector pulse time.HUH?yea it works.


----------



## DubGray1.8T (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Hey will this allow me to adjust my timing on my 99 audi AEB 20V. [indevidual coilpacks] I know it will work with fuel. This little system seems to good to be true its like standalone in a cheap little package. I love it so far. How much does this little miracle box adjust fuel up and down ? Is it pretty good? Thanks for any help guys I will be purchasing one in the next month or two i think anyone got a hook up







.
Here is my setup.
99 AEB 1.8T 
T3/T4 50 trim stage III wheel
440cc inject
ATP chip







Air fuel is pig rich mid range.


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (DubGray1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubGray1.8T* »_anyone got a hook up







.


chuck (slappynuts) sells them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (DubGray1.8T)*

In most cases you can adjust timing +- 12deg on the VW motors.This is the limit before it freaks out the ECU because the cam position sensor doesn't match the crank sensor position(ecu thinks the timing belt is off a few teeth).This is easy to correct on a 2l though because you can just turn the distributor a little.On the AEB your kind of stuck with the 12deg because the cam sensor is fixed on your car.
Yes it will work well with the ATP chip on a AEB motor.This has been done before with good results.


----------



## DubGray1.8T (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

very very cool I am so excited! Thanks for the info.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: kooter (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_Right now, I fail to see how a pure MAP conversion would be an advantage over MAF
1. You will still max the "voltage" and send a "saturated" signal to the ECU. (The MAP sensor will not max out per say, but the voltage will be more than what the ECU can tolerate) - Unless you do rescaling
2. You still need to tune the load tables 
Unless you use C2's approach where you pretend that your MAP sensor is scaled.
eg
Standard MAF signal is ~1V idle to 3.3V n/a
Standard MAF signal is ~1V idle to 5V (rougly 6-7psi) - VR6 MAF
Now
If you use an oversized MAF (C2)
Standard MAF signal is ~0.3V idle to 5V (let's say 15 psi) - dunno the exact value.
So in theory you could from the get go emulate the SMT6 to reflect a larger MAF and map those voltages to the MAP sensor and do the fuelling accordingly ??

d

What we are doing is emulating a MAF with a MAP sensor and SMT6.To a certain extent the MAF voltage = whatever injector pulse(not linera,but it doesn't matter).You can recalibrate it to whatever your needs.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Just a question, but what does the "ignition dwell time" do?


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

i have been wondering this question for a while..
ppl suggest to start tuning wtih bigger injectors and trim them down during tuning rather than overloading the stock injectors
regarding the smt6, if im not mistaken.. somewhere in this post, there was someone taht said they cannot put in negative values for fuel.
now if you cant put in negative values to trim down the flow, how would you be able to do it? 
can someone explain to me how this can be done on the smt6?

i should be getting mine this coming week !!


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

you trim the fuel down by adjusting the voltage the ecu sees from the MAF.
What does the ignition dwell time do?????


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_i have been wondering this question for a while..
ppl suggest to start tuning wtih bigger injectors and trim them down during tuning rather than overloading the stock injectors
regarding the smt6, if im not mistaken.. somewhere in this post, there was someone taht said they cannot put in negative values for fuel.
now if you cant put in negative values to trim down the flow, how would you be able to do it? 
can someone explain to me how this can be done on the smt6?

i should be getting mine this coming week !!









When you install larger injectors, you can trim down the fuel by setting the 'Fuel Zero Calibration' setting under Global Settings. I'm running 440cc injectors on my VR and my 0 Cal is set to -10. Perfect idle.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

when you say your zero calibration is "-10"
does that mean, you are trimming 10% off of the 440cc youre running?
because i will be running #32 (most likely)


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_Just a question, but what does the "ignition dwell time" do?

It shortens or lengthens how long your ignition is switched for.This is mainly needed for converting over to another type of ignition box.
Sorry I haven't been around.My computer was taking a break for a day or so.


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_when you say your zero calibration is "-10"
does that mean, you are trimming 10% off of the 440cc youre running?
because i will be running #32 (most likely) 

According to the manual:  "Each value of “1” on this bar increases or decreases the analog output value by 39mV."


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

Are you going to be running a chip with the 32# injectors? To use the '0' fuel cal I just listened to the idle when you either add or subtract from the fuel cal. When it sounds like a normal idle, take it for a spin and see how it feels, as long as you don't make drastic changes in your values you don't really need to worry about leaning out because you'll feel it when you start to run a little lean. Then just simply add 1 or 2 and go for another spin. I was suprised how much the value of one effects the total driveability. I currently use -12 (42#, with tt chip made for 20psi) on my fuel cal and I added a little fuel in the boost range of the map and I just about doubled my fuel mileage.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

A wideband would tell you everything you need to know.I recomend getting one.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

i see, thanks for the help 
how come you got a chip instead? the smt6 is capable of doing timing as well? (well up to 12 degrees advance/retard) or is it because with your set up, the smt6 cant do the job?


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

I'm using the TT chip made for 42# injectors and the smt6 also. The reason for the chip is so I can run the 42# injectors because I think you can only go go up to 32# with the stock chip. And with a chip made for 42# injectors you need some form of extra fuel control or you'd spend $500 on reburns let alone dyno time.

What does the ignition dwell time in the global settings do?


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

can someone explain what the ANALOG MAP is for? i read the manual couple of times, but still didnt figure out what its for
its deflection vs rpm
i tihnk somewhere in the manual, it says the analog map and injector map is the same.. is that so/
so does that mean that i can use just the injector map and thats it with regards to fueling?
also, do you guys use the ignition table at all? or just advance/retard +/- 12 degrees option for ignition







im confused..


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_can someone explain what the ANALOG MAP is for? i read the manual couple of times, but still didnt figure out what its for
its deflection vs rpm
i tihnk somewhere in the manual, it says the analog map and injector map is the same.. is that so/
so does that mean that i can use just the injector map and thats it with regards to fueling?
also, do you guys use the ignition table at all? or just advance/retard +/- 12 degrees option for ignition







im confused..

The analog map is for tuning the AFM.The injector map is for tuning with extra injectors and they are not the same.Yes you can advance the timing as much as you want in 1 - 12 degrees+ or -.When you master this I'll teach you how to cheat with the 2l MK3 cars for more retard.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

what does AFM stand for? or what it means?
so chuck, from what you are saying
if im not using extra injectors, i can just leave the injection map all ZERO then right? and just use the analog map to adjust my fuel..
is that correct?


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

AFM is the same as MAF (mass air flow).. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
anyways, from what ive been told deflection is like the load, the throttle position .. theoretically at a very large number like 99% it means WOT (wide-open throttle) and u know u can figure out the rest.. lower number.. less throttle ..etc. the deflection scale can be set in smt-6 by getting into the tps(throttle position sensor) signal 
btw ive read that in VW's the deflection value is reversed... for example 10% will be WOT instead of lets say 99%
and yeah when you set the value to zero smt-6 wont do anything unless you tell it to



_Modified by liquidtension at 9:28 PM 3-15-2005_


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_what does AFM stand for? or what it means?
so chuck, from what you are saying
if im not using extra injectors, i can just leave the injection map all ZERO then right? and just use the analog map to adjust my fuel..
is that correct?

Air flow meter=AFM
Yes exactly.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

What does the ignition dwell time do????


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

this is not reallya technical question regarding the smt6... but some help would be great
i just thought of this question as i was looking at my smt6
cuz the wires on that thing isnt very long to have it mounted INSIDE the cabin... and thats where i want it. so i can connect my labtop within the car and tune

do you guys extend the lenght of the wires by splicing wires together? 
is that bad idea?
where do you guys have it mounted??


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

On the MK3 cars you can mount it behind the passenger air bag.I usually just hang and extension cable down that can be tucked up out of the way.
Dwell time is the off time of the ignitor in the ignition pickup.On the VWs I just put it in the middle.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

if im not mistaken, the ecu is located on the driver side right?
well my car doesnt have air bag, and what do you mean "behind the air bag"? is it inside the cabin then?
would you (or anyone) be able to take a pic of their mounting location? cuz i cant visualize where it is...


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

I put mine behind where the passenger air bag would be. If you take the lowest passenger panel off the front console and look up there you'll see a little metal shelf you could mount it on with a few zip ties. If you mount it there you'll have plenty of wire to reach all the splice points. 
Slappy: Why do you put the ignition dwell in the middle (of the scale I assume)?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_I put mine behind where the passenger air bag would be. If you take the lowest passenger panel off the front console and look up there you'll see a little metal shelf you could mount it on with a few zip ties. If you mount it there you'll have plenty of wire to reach all the splice points. 
Slappy: Why do you put the ignition dwell in the middle (of the scale I assume)?

The voices in my head told me to.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
The voices in my head told me to.


Ok, well besides the voices in your head, is there any real reason to use this option?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_Ok, well besides the voices in your head, is there any real reason to use this option?

Its an adjustment that you can use to sometimes make it run better.If it works fine now I wouldn't change it.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

I was jsut curious if it says in the developer kit what this function actually is used for. And how does this option make it run better (idle)?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_I was jsut curious if it says in the developer kit what this function actually is used for. And how does this option make it run better (idle)?

There are so many diferent types of ignitions that they have this for older style ignitions or other aftermarket add ons to make them work I would imagine.The SMT6 takes the input crank signal and outputs directly the samy type of signal(except its a square wave signal).This can sometimes throw off the signal spacing.This would then be adjusted with the dwell.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Any of you guys dyno yet?


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

can the smt6 pass etest? (assuming its tuned properly)???
i think it can, but just want to some comfirmation..


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

E test meaning they plug something on the diag port and test?


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

yea, and run the car with the probe in the tail pipe..


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

Unless you have huge injectors or not properly tuned it shouldn't make a be just fine.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

cool
btw chuck from boost factory.. i was read the smt6 post there
i noticed you and other ppl have had trouble getting good signal for "+" and "-"... 
quote from the forum
"Yah I can use help. I'm having trouble getting a clean signal for power and ground. I'm guessing going straight to Batt (-) is best for ground? but where have you had best success getting a clean signal for Pos (+) ??"
is following the wiring diagram the best thing to do? or is/are there any better places to get better signals?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (G-Boi)*

I like to ground away from the ECU(after alot of head scratching).


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_Any of you guys dyno yet?

Not yet but this spring though.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Do keep me informed on your results http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Any questions as far as development goes can be asked here.There is alot of info held back from most of the consumers and these units will do alot more than people think.I have all the development info and will help people do things like boost controll,aditional injectors,and wideband O2 reference input(yea thought you would never ask







).


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_...and wideband O2 reference input(yea thought you would never ask







).

You said the magic words...I'll be receiving my AEM UEGO on Monday. Will the SMT6 log the AFR? I do see a display called AFR Out, but the numbers doesn't look correct; 11 throught the whole range.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_You said the magic words...I'll be receiving my AEM UEGO on Monday. Will the SMT6 log the AFR? I do see a display called AFR Out, but the numbers doesn't look correct; 11 throught the whole range.

I'm pretty sure the AEM has a 0-1v output for narrowband ecu signal.You should be able to log this on the SMT6.This is something I'm just beginning to look at.I'll find out more later today or tonight.


----------



## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Mr. slappynuts what the total Degree of timing this thing can do oh yeah and the price please


----------



## mmentone (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: (StreetRyda)*

i can answer this since hess busy right now. it can do +/-12 for the timing and for a price shoot me a IM


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (mmentone)*

Where do you tap the gnd and 12V ? At the ECU ? 
Or you use your own supply from the battery ? Also do you do anything with the square tap on the module itself (I am assuming it's gnd)
d


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (fastslc)*

The square tab is a heat sink for when you are using the thing very hard as a AIC.I like to ground at the battery and then use the ECU power supply for power(although some people have had problems with this).


----------



## scarboroughdub (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

dwell time is how long it takes for the spark to be released to the spark plug.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (scarboroughdub)*

so essentially it's like the universal fuel cal except for timing, right?


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Does the wide band need to be hooked all the time (assuming the tuning phase is finished) ?
Or it needs that feedback look to adjust the A/F (just like a regular O2 ?)

d


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_Does the wide band need to be hooked all the time (assuming the tuning phase is finished) ?
Or it needs that feedback look to adjust the A/F (just like a regular O2 ?)

d

I suppose you could pull the WB and use just the narrowband one.Any difference in the readings could end up in disaster.


----------



## LZ7J (Jun 10, 2003)

Does the SMT6 unit remove the speed governor and rev limiter?


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (LZ7J)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LZ7J* »_Does the SMT6 unit remove the speed governor and rev limiter?
 Removes the speed gov, not rev limiter.


----------



## LZ7J (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_ Removes the speed gov, not rev limiter.

How do I go about on doing this? Is there an option on the software that does this?
ps. Can someone with an OBD1 2.slo take a detailed picture of their ECU wiring with the SMT6 wire tapped? I figure this would be easier for those electronically declined








Thanks in advance fellas


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (LZ7J)*

nikko, you should really download the software, it comes with the wiring diagram. the 2.0 one is the same as the vr6 one
here you go


----------



## LZ7J (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_nikko, you should really download the software, it comes with the wiring diagram. the 2.0 one is the same as the vr6 one
here you go









I read the installation and windows* manual twice now... I get 90% of it.
Quick question, I know the yellow wire doesn't get "tee'd" off, so the question is, does this wire actually connect to the crank sensor? If so, how the hell do I know which wire it is?
















Has anyone ever used the timing control function of this unit?!?
Thanks amigos










_Modified by LZ7J at 1:00 AM 4-8-2005_


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (LZ7J)*

You have to take the wires at the ECU(pin 67and68)and connect them as shown in the diagram.


----------



## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

this one goes to chuck and to devon,
finally got the car started, however, with the map that devon gave me (the one he made 360ish hp on) my idle goes up to around 2200rpms, holds for about a minute or so, then starts to go back down. around 1500 the car just shuts off. any way to adjust the idle on there? the red box that lights up is on the lowest throttle setting (to the left) but its already on the 4th or 5th box up?


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (vweuroracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweuroracer* »_this one goes to chuck and to devon,
finally got the car started, however, with the map that devon gave me (the one he made 360ish hp on) my idle goes up to around 2200rpms, holds for about a minute or so, then starts to go back down. around 1500 the car just shuts off. any way to adjust the idle on there? the red box that lights up is on the lowest throttle setting (to the left) but its already on the 4th or 5th box up? 

I had the exact problem. You need to modify the injector pulse by going to 'Global Settings','Analog' and adjust the 'Fuel zero calibration' I droped mine from -12 to -10 and my car now idles perfectly.


----------



## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

did that, but now it doesnt idle at all. it tries to stay low, but just cant do it?


----------



## LZ7J (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (vweuroracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweuroracer* »_did that, but now it doesnt idle at all. it tries to stay low, but just cant do it?

How big are your injectors?


----------



## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (LZ7J)*

42#


----------



## LZ7J (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (vweuroracer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vweuroracer* »_42#

Are you running a chip to control the injectors?
If not, that could be the culprit. The SMT6 unit can only support 50% over stock injector flow.


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (LZ7J)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LZ7J* »_Are you running a chip to control the injectors?
If not, that could be the culprit. The SMT6 unit can only support 50% over stock injector flow.

Thats not entirely accurate as I also run 42# injectors and my car idles perfect. Every car is different, so maybe -10 might not be the sweet sport for you. Try changing these values one by one.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

I also use the 42# injectors and am at -10 on the fuel cal and my idle is good. Does anyone else notice that the performance under boost changes with the weather?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (LoGIc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LoGIc* »_Thats not entirely accurate as I also run 42# injectors and my car idles perfect. Every car is different, so maybe -10 might not be the sweet sport for you. Try changing these values one by one.
I'd like to tak a look at your map.Think you could send it to [email protected]?


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Will using the temp sensor along with a pullup wire help in tuning or simply just show me engine temp?
Also, how many of you guys still get the flashing cel (misfire) sometimes?


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (vweuroracer)*

I'd like to also note that I use Lemiwinks to increase my startup and warmup fuel enrichments for a better cold start.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

what's lemiwinks?


----------



## DubGray1.8T (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Lemmiwinks is prog developed by Revo so that you can change perameters in the ECU. DBW only


----------



## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (DubGray1.8T)*

more info on it? i cant find it anywhere on their site?
also, is the zero fuel calibration more just an idle adjustment?


----------



## vweuroracer (Sep 24, 2002)

*Re: (vweuroracer)*

so lemmiwinks is free, you just need a vag-com to work with it? i already downloaded the software, so now i just need to get a vag-com it looks like


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_Will using the temp sensor along with a pullup wire help in tuning or simply just show me engine temp?
Also, how many of you guys still get the flashing cel (misfire) sometimes?

Not really sure what your trying to ask.I have always got a flashing CE light over 8 lbs on the OBD2 cars.


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

for wideband tuning, can you just get a wideband o2 sensor, none of the digital display and data logging stuff, and get an accurate AFR readout with the SMT6 software?


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (magics5rip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magics5rip* »_for wideband tuning, can you just get a wideband o2 sensor, none of the digital display and data logging stuff, and get an accurate AFR readout with the SMT6 software?

I don't think so.


----------



## 95raddo (May 24, 2002)

*Re: (magics5rip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magics5rip* »_for wideband tuning, can you just get a wideband o2 sensor, none of the digital display and data logging stuff, and get an accurate AFR readout with the SMT6 software?
















I am pretty sure the smt6 only reads narrow band


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (magics5rip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magics5rip* »_for wideband tuning, can you just get a wideband o2 sensor, none of the digital display and data logging stuff, and get an accurate AFR readout with the SMT6 software?

Yes you can actually. The AEM Wideband UEGO gauge has the option to change the output to 0-1v non-linear, which is what the SMT6 uses.


----------



## G-Boi (Aug 29, 2002)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

so logic, are you saying the smt6 can get accurate afr with a wideband o2 sensor? 
if thats the case, then thats a big big plus. 
can someone comfirm that?


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (G-Boi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G-Boi* »_so logic, are you saying the smt6 can get accurate afr with a wideband o2 sensor? 
if thats the case, then thats a big big plus. 
can someone comfirm that?

Not sure about the others, but AEM has the output calibration feature for 5 different type of engine managements. As per Perfect Power, the wideband controller has to support a non-linear 0-1v Nernst Cell calibration.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

If it has a narrow band output then it should work.Some wideband units had narrow band output so you can use it in place of your normal O2 sensor(front of course).That would also work with the narrow band AF meters.


----------



## nabilsx (Jun 8, 2000)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

this is regarding the discussion about AFM and MAF and the voltage reading, 
CHUCK what Eric was asking he miss explained it.
he was talking about AFM "air flow meter, which is the flap type sensor" and MAS "mass air sensor, which is hot film sensor" the later usually measures 0-5v while the first usually goes 0-12v at least with BMW cars.
now about N/A cars that gets turbocharged, the moment we hit boost and after a couple of pounds the MAP is at its max voltage or signal, while the RPM would be at about 3500RPM, "injectors are 30#" and the car is a Renault megane 1.6L 16v. turbo is a tiny T25.
so what to do in that case? no matter how much I add in the analogue table the MAP is allready runnign at its fullest.
peace


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (nabilsx)*

Are you sure the AFM voltage is 12v?I have never seen anything but 5v.I'm pretty sure the output limit on the SMT6 is 10v.Have you checked that yet?
I don't have access to many renault manuals because that car was not sold in the US.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Also the MAP sensor needs a 0-5v signal to work.The SMT6 can transpose this to a 0-10v output.


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Will using the temp sensor along with a pullup wire help in tuning or simply just show me engine temp?
Also, how many of you guys still get the flashing cel (misfire) sometimes?


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_
Not really sure what your trying to ask.I have always got a flashing CE light over 8 lbs on the OBD2 cars.

Well I've noticed that the misfires (flashing cel) happen less often when when I run the fuel cal a little more on the rich side. I was just curious about anyone who's dyno'd their fuel trims and if the still get the flashing cel?
About the temp wire, what are the benefits of using this?


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Check one of Jefnes3 post about the flashing light on OBD2 cars. I think it had to be due to some software sensitivity of







- don't remember.
Sorry
d


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_Will using the temp sensor along with a pullup wire help in tuning or simply just show me engine temp?
Also, how many of you guys still get the flashing cel (misfire) sometimes?

Well I've noticed that the misfires (flashing cel) happen less often when when I run the fuel cal a little more on the rich side. I was just curious about anyone who's dyno'd their fuel trims and if the still get the flashing cel?
About the temp wire, what are the benefits of using this?

With that you can tune it for better fuel mixture under all temp conditions.


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Found it - Quote from Jeff
If you notice the ONLY obd2 cars have misfire issues....
Mostly due to the misfire calculation. (there is no misfire sensor)
Similar issues plauge light flywheel or light pulley installs
on NA cars as well. (especially newer BMW's)
Part of the calculation is based on angular acceleration of the cranckshaft
derived form the cranck position sensor.....
Anytime you change the response of the engine, it is possible
for the misfire loop to score a 'false positive'. 
i.e. add loads of power
or change the rotational inertia of the crank
Both/either will affect how the crankshaft responds and how the
crank position sensor picks up the toothed wheel.
Anything that doesn't 'look' stock triggers a misfire count.
Get enough counts then the CEL will flash once
Get some more counts and the CEL will begin flashing.

Use your butt dyno and dyno data to determine for sure.
Hint: cover the CEL to make sure your eyes are not tricking
your butt.... 

Ever hear the obd1 guys with any misfire issues that didn't have
~bad parts.... nope.
They run ~similar tuning and the same wires/coilpack/plugs
as the obd2 guys with 'misfire issues'.....

Just food for thought.
-Jeff 
'End Quote


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (fastslc)*

yes but do the obd-1 cars have the capability to trigger a cel for a misfire? 
Why is it that the cel calls out individual cylinders when I check it w/ the vag? When I clear them sometimes they appear in different order from the last time. I'm pretty sure that it has always been all four cylenders that are called out every time it happens.
As far as noticing the change of performance with the weather, that can be corrected by using the pull-up wire for temp, right?


----------



## LZ7J (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Okay, I received the perfectpower unit I purchased from a user here. I bought the SMT6 and received the older model, the SMT5 instead.






















So my question(s) is, what is the difference between the 2 units?
Can the SMT5 do ignition and timing as well?
Can I use the same wiring diagram as the SMT6?
Any advice at what to do with this situation is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (LZ7J)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LZ7J* »_Okay, I received the perfectpower unit I purchased from a user here. I bought the SMT6 and received the older model, the SMT5 instead.






















So my question(s) is, what is the difference between the 2 units?
Can the SMT5 do ignition and timing as well?
Can I use the same wiring diagram as the SMT6?
Any advice at what to do with this situation is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

I know nothing about the SMT5.I would look at the website for info on that unit.


----------



## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_yes but do the obd-1 cars have the capability to trigger a cel for a misfire? 
Why is it that the cel calls out individual cylinders when I check it w/ the vag? When I clear them sometimes they appear in different order from the last time. I'm pretty sure that it has always been all four cylenders that are called out every time it happens.
As far as noticing the change of performance with the weather, that can be corrected by using the pull-up wire for temp, right?

You shouldn't need the pullup wire to run temp compensation(I could be wrong here).


----------



## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Well how do I do it? Because it runs like crap after 50% throttle when the car is cold but is fine when it's warm though??
Also I just advanced my timing a little today and noticed a big difference with just 2*.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I'll look into it for you probably tomorrow.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Is there a way to get rid of the flashing cel light, because after I advanced the timing I get the flashing when I'm just cruising. Is it because the chip I had made pulled so much timing and when I advanced it the computer now thinks there's too big of a difference in the spark/ crank speed?


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

It probably thinks there is too much diff between the cam and crank position sensors.Try advancing the distributor a little.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

clockwise right?


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

For more retard in the map,yes.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

It only move a few degrees of rotation and it's still the same (flashing).


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

There are two little pins that can be pulled to turn the distributor more.You should be able to turn that thing 360deg.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

i'll give it a shot today. Thanks


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I haven't gotten a chance to do the timing yet (raining here), but I was just wondering what options I have with interfacing a WB O2 sensor/controller into the smt6? Has anyone gotten the smt6 to work with a wideband yet?


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## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I have it working fine with my AEM Wideband gauge. You have to configure the AEM to P04 calibration and connect the output to the SMT6 brown/black wire. What I see right now is that the SMT6 has a lower AFR limit of 11.6 and upper of 14.8. Everything in between seems to be accurate with the AEM.


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## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

do you have any pictures of your setup im looking to do the same when i install SMt6


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (LoGIc)*

Did you need the uego controller to convert the 5v to 1v signals for the input into the smt6? Or can you just use the gauge and the sensor? Also, you said that the smt has accurate readings with the WB hooked up from 11.6 to 14.8?


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## lenko62 (Sep 29, 2001)

where can the be bought?, any dealers around ohio by chance?


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Which wire is the pullup wire I'd use to plug an analog WB O2 output into so I can use it with the smt?


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

slappy?


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Sorry guys I have been busy as hell.Its one of the blue and white I think??I'll find out for sure


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

thanks, I'll be waiting.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

also, have you run an obd2 2.0t with an open bov? How is it setup?


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## DubGray1.8T (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (KOOTER)*

Whats new??


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (DubGray1.8T)*

The wire is either black and blue or black and white.Its the only color that there is two of.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: SMT6 questions answered here. (slappynuts)*

and the signal that I feed into the smt is the 0-5v analog from the WB?


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StrokedPSI* »_Well how do I do it? Because it runs like crap after 50% throttle when the car is cold but is fine when it's warm though??
Also I just advanced my timing a little today and noticed a big difference with just 2*.









Ok, well my problem wasn't the smt6, it was the 42# chip from TT. In parts of the map I was reading 9.0:1 AFR on my WB and that's the lowest the unit will read so who knows how low my afr actually was. After the WB it's like driving a stock 2.0 with a little extra


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Do you have a vag com?Now its time to start zeroing those fuel trim #s.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

yes I do have a vag com, why? What do you mean about zeroizing the fuel trim?


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

Go into blocks and find your short term and long term fuel trims and tell me what they are.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

anyone want to email me their base map so that I can study it and get an idea on how to tune and such? I'll be willing to host as many maps as I can for other people to download (pending on file size).


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (magics5rip)*

yeah I'll send you a map in the works tonight when I get back from work for:
12psi 
ttchip made for 20psi 
2.5" turbo back
t3 60trim .60/.48
stock 2.0 maf honed out to 2.67" from 2.5"


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

for those of you running a MAP sensor, which pullup wire did you use for your signal?
Also, I have been looking at this page recently http://hhscott.com/93tmv/3-bar_map.htm 
Is this basically what you guys have done to run your MAP? Is the pullup wire the 5v+ or sensor signal?


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## troze1200 (Oct 12, 2000)

*Re: (magics5rip)*

So what does it take, and how do you hook up a map in our cars? (2.0)


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_.You need to wire *#10(black/white wire)and #11(green/yellow wire)togher and hook those up to the signal from your MAP sensor.*

I missed this quite a few times when reading through this thread. Just thought I would point it out to everyone who wanted to use an MAP sensor along with their MAF. It really is simple to hook up as its basically 3 wires. It'll get the active cell in the 1x16 maps (the red cursor) on both the analog tuning screen and ignition screen to respond according to the intake manifold pressure. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

how do you go about zeroing the fuel trim # using a vag-com?


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I'm still wondering this as well because as I understand it, you just adjust your fuel values until your fuel trims aren't straying too far from zero. You can't really 'zero them out' in the sense that we are thinking. 
What I am curious about is that the front o2 sensor can't be plugged in since whenever the car hits boost and tries to throw more fuel through the injectors, the front o2 sensor is going to trim fuel out to get back to 14.7 no matter how close to 0 our regular non-boost trim values are.
Maybe we just plug in the front 02 sensor, get out fuel trims close to zero, then unplug it and tune for boost.


_Modified by magics5rip at 2:35 AM 9-1-2005_


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (magics5rip)*

Yes you have to take your SMT6 and adjust the main fuel multiplier to zero out all the fuel trims.Then you can adjust the boost maps to run how you like.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

So ideally you want the map to read all 0's?? I guess I'm not sure what you mean by zero the fuel trims, do you mean trim the chip's fuel trim to pretty much where you have it set with the smt6? Is this why the unit seems to run fine for a little while after a new map is loaded but always seems to stray towards the rich side? 
Also the thing on the front O2, slappy correct me if I'm wrong:
But, the front O2 has nothing to do with fuel trim after it has gone into open-loop, and is more for calibrating the fuel trims under normal driving (i.e. idleing, cruising, not tromping the gas).


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

the only time the o2 sensor isn't trimming the fuel is at idle and WOT. At anywhere in between, your front o2 sensor will trim the fuel, even while in boost (which is why its bad.) For instance, 2/3 throttle at a low rpm will put enough load on the car to get it well into boost, but your o2 sensor will still want to trim your fuel back to 14.7. 
Zeroing out the fuel trims requires you to have your vagcom reading the fuel trim bank (some say bank 032, I think its in 025 for the older vagcom versions) and then go driving around and see what your fuel trims are doing all over your N/A range. Your fuel trims will be a percentage: first cell is the additive trim and the 2nd cell is the multiplicitive trim. So, if you have a -4.7% in the first trim cell, that means your o2 sensor is telling the engine to take away (subract) 4.7% of the fuel that the MAF is telling the ecu to give. 
Then, adjust the map on your SMT6 so that your o2 sensor doesn't have to trim out (or add in) that much fuel. That way, you have a good base of where to start tuning when you hit boost. So you are zeroing your fuel trims by adjusting your analog fuel settings to curb the amount of trimming the o2 sensors have to do.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (magics5rip)*

Here is what happens.when the O2 sensor detects a rich condidtion under partial throttle(or lean condition as well).it will cause the ECU to move the whole fuel curve either to the lean side or the rich side.When you can keep the fuel trims at zero on the vag com by adjusting the fuel mixture with your SMT6 the ecu will not try to adjust the fuel trims either direction.
If yout ecu sees a lean condition(- value on your fuel trims) it will add fuel to keep the mixture at stoich.At this point you have moved the whole map toward the rich side and when you stomp on the gas you will have a really rich spot when the change from open/closed loop is.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

MAGIc you still need that base map? What's your email?


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## scottnbarb (Jan 19, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I just picked up a used SMT-6 and I have a couple of questions. I plan on running a couple of extra injectors before the throttle body. What is the best place to pick up what I need to wire the injectors to the SMT-6 and to fuel the injectors as well?
I already have a Zeitronix-2 Wideband Controller. Anyone have any experience at hooking this into the SMT-6?


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (scottnbarb)*

just buy bigger injectors


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## scottnbarb (Jan 19, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I've been doing some reading on the SMT6 forum and some of this is starting to make sense. I am having one real problem though that needs to be sorted out before I can start. Which wiring diagram do I use? I have a '91 VW Passat 2.0L 16v with the motronic 9A engine. I really hope I'm wrong but I don't see a wiring diagram for my car.
Here is a direct link to the VW wiring diagrams.
http://www.perfectpower.com/wi...u.asp


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## Chris_P (Apr 14, 2000)

*Re: (scottnbarb)*

Follow Volkswagen553.pdf, and Volkswagen411.pdf for wiring of power, ground and cranksensor/dizzy only. Since you don't really have an electronic air flow meter, you can't connect analog deflection. This link should help you with determining which hall sensor wiring you need to split. http://www.snstuning.com/DIY/D...u.htm 
Pin 18 green white.
If you are going boosted, then you will have to add a map sensor to the SMT6, or else all you can do with ignition setup is modify timing and add fuel based on rpm only.
What I've done with one turbo integra is use a map sensor and connect it to analog deflection for 2D fuel tuning. Works very well.
Good luck!


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## scottnbarb (Jan 19, 2002)

*Re: (Chris_P)*

If I add a map sensor to the SMT6 will I then be able to do the two things I really want to with the SMT6?
1) Tune the fueling with 2 injectors before the throttle body.
2) Adjust the timing curve 
I will have a Zt-2 wideband with the EGT & boost gauges hooked up. If I have to I can always pay someone to hook all of this up but I have to make sure it is possible before hand and if I am missing something.


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## Chris_P (Apr 14, 2000)

*Re: (scottnbarb)*

1 - yes
2 - yes
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Check your IM.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (Chris_P)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chris_P* »_
What I've done with one turbo integra is use a map sensor and connect it to analog deflection for 2D fuel tuning. Works very well.
Good luck!

I did the exact same thing on a integra(3bar gm map sensor).If you need a 42# injector map just let me know.It ran a [email protected]


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## scottnbarb (Jan 19, 2002)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_I did the exact same thing on a integra(3bar gm map sensor).If you need a 42# injector map just let me know.It ran a [email protected]









Yes please! If you can I would suggest posting it for other guys to check out. If it's too difficult to post can you e-mail it to me? 
[email protected]
Can you also give me some of the boost details that went along with the map? I am of course assuming that I will not be able to tell. At what boost level did you start the extra fueling and what boost level did you hit at WOT?


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (scottnbarb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scottnbarb* »_Yes please! If you can I would suggest posting it for other guys to check out. If it's too difficult to post can you e-mail it to me? 
[email protected]
Can you also give me some of the boost details that went along with the map? I am of course assuming that I will not be able to tell. At what boost level did you start the extra fueling and what boost level did you hit at WOT?

Sorry to burst your bubble,but this unit on the integra was set up to run as a afc type unit so the maps aren't going to be much good for you.I have my laptop at the shop ,but I will send it to you if I can remember it tomorrow.


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (slappynuts)*

Anyone have a map that your using with 42# injectors and a chip? How about what numbers are you guys using for your scale deflection? The reason I ask is that from completely off the gas pedal to slightly touching it fueling is staying in the first column on the analog map. I'm using 86% for TB closed and 14% for WOT. Anyone have anything different?


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## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

I am running the C2 42# tune in my VR6 with the big MAF housing, 42# injectors, and chip. What I want to do is be able to fine tune the fueling (running on the rich side as of now) and possibly the timing if need be. Would the SMT6 work well for me?? I understand I would need the wiring and unit itself, anything else? I think from skimming through this thread I would also need to run a generic MAP sensor of some sort in additon to the MAF sensor, if that is possible. Or could I get away with no MAP and just use the MAF signal? Also, C2 wants you to unplug your O2s, would I keep them unplugged or plug them back in with the SMT6? Looking to get a good solid tune for about 15-17psi, no more rich spots or studdering. Let me know all you SMT6 pros.


_Modified by 95GLS at 10:38 PM 10-30-2005_


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## Tikigod_III (Oct 11, 2004)

In regard to the wideband O2 sensor, the SMT6 site says that it you can wire your wideband into the piggyback. Does this mean that the SMT6 will fake narrowband signals to the ECU so that you can leave your regular O2 sensors plugged in?
Re-reading that, I sound like I'm way off the mark, will someone please explain?


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## StrokedPSI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (Tikigod_III)*

I had my WB sending the narrow band signal to the ecu and the car would always retune itself so I disconnected it completely and it was much better.


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## German VR6 (Dec 21, 2002)

*Re: (StrokedPSI)*

anyone running this on a vr6?


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## Vw_Power (Jan 11, 2003)

*Re: (German VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *German VR6* »_anyone running this on a vr6?

BUmp... need to know too!


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## scottnbarb (Jan 19, 2002)

*Re: (Vw_Power)*

Anybody know if there is a 5v power wire coming from the SMT6 unit that I can wire a MAP sensor and TPS sensor too?


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