# Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (12)



## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

Hello All,
I would like to keep this very information.. I did search for A/R Ratios on turbines, and their relative spool characteristic for the vr6 (12v), but I was unable to find any, so I would like to create this forum strictly informational with the following information to help newbies (such as myself) learn how to properly size the turbine section for a vr6
Here is what would be beneficial
1. We are assuming this is related to the 12 Valve version of the VR6, not the 24v. It's a well known fact the 24 valved version's head is much more efficient, so it's not going to help much to include that. I encourage all 24v Vr6's to start a separate forum as to help those.
2. A/R Ratio. We need to know what A/R Ratio you are reporting so as to give us characteristics of the spool. 
3. Spool Characteristics. We need to know and what RPM's your turbo starts to spool (Does your turbo begin to spool at 2000 Rpms on the engine? Does it begin to spool at 5000)
4. Turbo Family. We need to know what family of turbo's does yours belong to. (Does it have a t3 Turbine, does it have a t4 turbine?)
5. Compressor Information. Tell us Specsifications and characterestics about your compressor. What is the Family, Trim Size of your Compressor? Can you hear it Surge? What is the potential Flow in Lbs/min? The more information the better
6. Tells us the vr6 12v you have (Mk4 with the Plastic Manifold, or the Mk3 with the metal manifold). In Addition, tell us what modifications you have done to your car (Intake, Headers, Exhaust, Cam Specifications if not stock, and whether or not you are running the standard intake manifold, or a SRI)
7. Any additional information would be helpful. The key here is that everyone has different wants/ needs for turbo charging their car, but rather then telling someone that, lets get some good solid information that people can use, and that way they can save themselves 1500 dollars on a turbo, that may be overkill)


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (marlonlyn)*

Garrett TO4E-T4 60 trim/ .69 A/R P-trim
Starts spooling around 2000rpm. I see ~1psi around there.
Fully spooled around 3800 rpm in 3rd and 4th gear on flat ground w/ cams and a ported head. I only run 12psi so add some rpm if you are running more.
I think it's a great street/strip turbo for up to 400whp. Wouldn't want a bigger A/R on the street. Wouldn't want a smaller A/R at the track so a nice compromise. 


_Modified by slc92 at 7:25 AM 11-15-2009_


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (slc92)*

gt 4094 1.19ar tubular ex mani
93 oe intake manifold, relocated TB
no spool in first gear,
no spool @ 3000
almost can't tell it's there until you hit 3800, then it's all noise in the turbo


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

*Re: Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (EL DRIFTO)*

wow....haha i just saw the picture of your turb in the sri thread and damn that thing must be fun lol
my old setup went a little something like this...
To4e dualballb .57trim compressor, .63turbine, standard T3 5 bolt discharge to 3" downpipe-2.5" exhaust, CAT 268's, P&P'd head, stock un-modified mk3 intake manifold
1st gear would build 1psi of boost around 3,000 and then the tires would rip loose...2nd was all go after that. 3rd gear around 3,500-4,000rpm was almost direct vac to boost when cruising. 4th gear cruising was always my favorite... fractional delay in boost but acceleration was nuts...
I never ran more than 7psi on that car







but then again I never had to because it pulled hard all the way to 7,200 
and woud continue to make power on the dyno till you let off




_Modified by dub_slug at 7:44 AM 11-15-2009_


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

*Re: Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (dub_slug)*

Garrett T04S T3 A/R63 full boost at 3200 rpm.
Garrett GT35R T3 A/R1.06 full boost around 3800 rpm.


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

GT3582R 0.82 T3
Throttle pinned I see 3 psi at 2500rpm and full boost (13psi in my application) by 3500rpm.
83mm wossner pistons, BVH, short runner etc, all the kit in my sig.
Do I hear surge? If you mean "cha cha cha" when shifting, no. If you mean boost surge under power, that's another no.
Other info. Well, I did run a ported shroud initially - the ATP bullet hole type - and it was too noisy off boost. Sounded like a muted Vortech SC which I hate, so I took it off and fitted a plain housing. Zero difference to spool speed, but silence off boost.
I've also tried a GT3071R 0.82 and GT3076R 0.82 on this engine. The 3071 is just ridiculous. I'm surprised my gearbox survived it, but if you want a very quick and very hard pull, go for that. But you'll be replacing tyres more frequently than you'd like.
3076 is obviously the half way house between the 3071 and 35R but I just didn't like that turbo much. It spools barely any quicker than the 35R (for the same size back housing) but lacks the 35's top end.
So Mr 35 is the clear winner here, for me at least.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (kevhayward)*

Great thread.
From the #'s quoted here it seems that my T4 .69 is closer to a T3 1.06 than a .82. Glad I didn't go T4 .81. Too short a powerband on the street IMO.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (marlonlyn)*

Guys, What would you think the Differences between the three following turbos
T61 (O Trim), T61 (P Trim), and T66 (Q Trim) What are your speculations on boost patterns?
T61 (O Trim)
Master Power Turbo
Turbine Wheel:
-Exducer Diameter: 2.30"
-Mayor Diameter: 2.91"
Compressor Wheel:
-Exducer Diameter: 2.40"
-Mayor Diameter: 3.58"
Turbine Housing:
-A/R: .68
-Type: Undivided
-Discharge: V-Band
-inlet: T4
Compressor housing:
-A/R: .70
-Air Inlet: 4.00"
T61 (P Trim)
Master Power Turbo
Turbine Wheel:
-Exducer Diameter: 2.53"
-Mayor Diameter: 2.91"
Compressor Wheel:
-Exducer Diameter: 2.40"
-Mayor Diameter: 3.58"
Turbine Housing:
-A/R: .96
-Type: Undivided
-Discharge: V-Band
-inlet: T3
Compressor housing:
-A/R: .70
-Air Inlet: 4.00"
T66 (Q Trim)
Master Power Turbo
Turbine Wheel:
-Exducer Diameter: 2.63"
-Mayor Diameter: 2.91"
Compressor Wheel:
-Exducer Diameter: 2.51"
-Mayor Diameter: 3.58"
Turbine Housing:
-A/R: .84
-Type: Divided
-Discharge: 4 Bolt
-inlet: T3
Compressor housing:
-A/R: .70
-Air Inlet: 4.00"


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

MK4 GTI 12V VR6
Turbonetics 60-1 
.70 compressor A/R
T3 Turbine, .63 A/R, Stage 3 wheel, F1 wheel
ATP clone exh. mani, small SRI, 3" exhaust, 42pph injectors, C2 flash load, crumby FMIC, 2.5" piping, 4" intake, 10psi boost. 
1st gear it spools very qucikly, 2nd gear from a roll at say 40mph/3,000 RPM boost is immediate. 
On this setup it laid down 333 WHP/296 TQ at a 80* F day. 
It's a fairly responsive turbo. I'm glad I went with the .63 housing. The bigger wouldve been better if I were chasing down Supras though.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (Weiss)*

this is a great thread.... keep it going.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## marat_g60 (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re: Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (slc92)*

running a garrett t04-s 60-1, p-trim .81 hotside. It spools around 2.5k in 6th gear. Makes 20psi at 4.2-4.4k. Pulls hard to rev limit 7.2k. Was running 268 cams on stock mk3 manifold. Made 416whp at 20psi.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (marat_g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *marat_g60* »_running a garrett t04-s 60-1, p-trim .81 hotside. It spools around 2.5k in 6th gear. Makes 20psi at 4.2-4.4k. Pulls hard to rev limit 7.2k. Was running 268 cams on stock mk3 manifold. Made 416whp at 20psi.

what exhaust manifold did you use to make that turbo fit with the stock mk3 intake manifold? and would you have pictures of how close it is to the throttle body?
TIA....


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## marat_g60 (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re: Spool Characteristics turbine A/R Ratio Housing Family Vr6 (Boost112)*

Im using the atp manifold. I dont have a recent pic, but here's my old t04b turbo. It fits the same way with even more space now after fiddling with it for a bit.


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## obd2vr6 (Jul 7, 2006)

Running a Garrett 35R BB 82ar hot side on a fully built 3.0 with 268 cat cams and lugtronic standalone full boost at 3500


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Thread revival...

Garrett T04Z
T4 .96 Undivided on-center
5lbs boost 2750rpm-4750rpm
Full boost at 5000rpm
The .96 is just a bit too big as you fall out of boost between gears. .69 T4 hotside on the way and will report back.


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## R32Smoker (Oct 21, 2010)

Precision 6265 T4 .81
034 Motorsport turbo manifold
C2 intake manifold
Starts spoolin around 2000? rpm
Full boost (23 psi) at 4000 rpm


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

bump this great thread, it needs more input:thumbup:


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

R32Smoker said:


> Precision 6265 T4 .81
> 034 Motorsport manifold
> Starts spoolin around 2000 rpm
> Full boost (20 psi) at 3800


Ball bearing? 

Granted I'm on a Kinetic manifold/stock intake manifold, but my journal bearing 6262 .82 T3 is showing about 1 pound around 3500, and not hitting full boost until 4500 or so.


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## R32Smoker (Oct 21, 2010)

djsheijkdfj said:


> Ball bearing?
> 
> Granted I'm on a Kinetic manifold/stock intake manifold, but my journal bearing 6262 .82 T3 is showing about 1 pound around 3500, and not hitting full boost until 4500 or so.


Sorry, I was a bit off actually. I realized after posting this that I'm actually hitting full boost at 4000 rpms. I recently raised the boost up a bit from 17 to 23 psi, so I was use to full boost being a bit sooner. 

I have the ball bearing version. I'm starting to spool way sooner than 3500 rpms and am off like a rocket at 4000 eace:


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Yeah, mind hits hard at around 4000 as well, I'm just not seeing any positive pressure in the manifold until 3500. It's making pretty good pressure in the charge piping before then though, because the blow off is still pretty loud even when the manifold is showing 0 psi. I have a feeling that a 3" downpipe and a short runner would make significant improvements in the spool.


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

Precision 6262 .63 A/r *T4* housing
ATP exhuast Man to 3" turbo back, Juan SRI kinetic front mount

0 psi on the gauge until 3200 ish then hits full boost at 4000.

the car is pretty slow out of boost but i never drove it non vrt , wont even break the tires loose in first until the turbo spools like 1 psi 

would switching back to the stock intake mani give me more low end ?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

djsheijkdfj said:


> Ball bearing?
> 
> Granted I'm on a Kinetic manifold/stock intake manifold, but my journal bearing 6262 .82 T3 is showing about 1 pound around 3500, and not hitting full boost until 4500 or so.


i'm on a 62mm turbo with a .82 t3, (gt 3582) and can see boost pressure at 2400 rpm (although its not making anything meaningful until 3000), with hard boost at 3500 rpm.

something doesnt sound right with yours. what DP and exhaust? whats your tune?


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

i have the same turbo he has with a different turbine housing and my spooling is very close to his. my gauge reads 0 until after 3k then full boost at 4


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

TBT-Syncro said:


> i'm on a 62mm turbo with a .82 t3, (gt 3582) and can see boost pressure at 2400 rpm (although its not making anything meaningful until 3000), with hard boost at 3500 rpm.
> 
> something doesnt sound right with yours. what DP and exhaust? whats your tune?


2.5" downpipe, 2.5" test pipe, 2.5" TT/Borla exhaust, and stock intake manifold. The 2.5" downpipe is holding me back from spooling earlier, I know that. 

Once it shows 1psi on the gauge at around 3500 RPM, it spools up to 10 pounds (Full boost) very quickly, and hits hard right at 4000 RPM or so.

Is yours a ball bearing?


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

mine is exactly the same characteristic , made me question my boost gauge because it was a electric one.


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## Slapbladder (Feb 1, 2006)

3.6 FSI.....T4 T60-1 Garrett making boost at 2100rpm...oops just saw the 12V reference!


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

T04 .96 on a 57 trim...3"dp to 2.5" test pipe to 2.25" exhaust...i see positive pressure by 4200... 10 psi by like 47-4800... I need to put my 3" dp back exhaust on already...

...oh I forgot CP = 8.5:1


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

optiks said:


> would switching back to the stock intake mani give me more low end ?


What is your CR presently?


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## optiks (Mar 15, 2003)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> What is your CR presently?


8.5


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

For "street" Mk3's I like to keep the stock upper manifold + 9:1. That being said even with an SRI I've not experienced the car being such a slug.

I've noticed that the journal Precisions do behave the way you described (nothing then everything hard). It surprises me that you don't see any positive pressure until 32K though. I run a bigger hotside than you've described and I can still see positive pressure by mid 3000's on a journal 67/65. The Precision BB is another deal altogether and if you can that route is superior. A lot of this spool though is based on the exhaust setup you guys run.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

djsheijkdfj said:


> 2.5" downpipe, 2.5" test pipe, 2.5" TT/Borla exhaust, and stock intake manifold. The 2.5" downpipe is holding me back from spooling earlier, I know that.


thats a mammoth bottle neck. if you're running 20psi, you're probably losing out on 100Whp right now.

:beer:


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Yeah, I'd like to get into a 3" downpipe, but I'll be keeping the exhaust as-is due to it being a daily driver. Not too concerned with numbers, just as long as it's fun to drive.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

I love this thread. Giving me motivation & it's good to know it's possible to achieve my Hp goal & then some. I'm going to pick up a 3" DP next month & see if i can schedule an app. to get my 3" DP back made. 450hp here i come!!


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

TBT-Syncro said:


> i'm on a 62mm turbo with a .82 t3, (gt 3582) and can see boost pressure at 2400 rpm, with hard boost at 3500 rpm.



Pretty similar to TBT

Gt35R bb
T4 .82 Undivided (ATP's housing)
Transition to boost (>0 psi) - 2200 RPM
~5 psi - 2600 RPM
28 psi - 4200 RPM
3.5" DP & headwork
8.5:1


Gt35R bb
T3 1.06 undivided
Transition to boost (>0 psi) - 2500 RPM
25 psi - 4500 RPM
3.0" DP
8.5:1


Master Power T70 journal
T4 .68 undivided
Transition to boost (>0 psi) - 3000 RPM
18 psi - 5000 RPM
2.5" DP
9:1


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Have my turbo apart for a hotside swap so figured I would share some comparison photos.

.96 on the left, .69 on the right.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

*FV-QR*

We don't wanna see your half a snail. We wanna here some feedback


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

Garrett T04Z
T4 .69 Undivided on-center
Starts building boost at 2000rpm
Full boost at 3700-3800rpm
Ferocious power curve now... much more lively than the .96 I had previously been running.


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

GT40r 1.06 AR 4"down pipe
1st gear 17lbs
2nd 25lbs
3rd 28lbs
4th 28lbs
I don't have any gauges to see when full boost hits but I do have a video


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## mk4vrjtta (Feb 3, 2007)

scrapper said:


> GT40r 1.06 AR 4"down pipe
> 1st gear 17lbs
> 2nd 25lbs
> 3rd 28lbs
> ...


:heart:


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## scrapper (Feb 17, 2007)

Yeah it gets my heart pumping too. It's a rush.


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

T66 (Q Trim)
Master Power Turbo
Turbine Wheel:
-Exducer Diameter: 2.63"
-Mayor Diameter: 2.91"
Compressor Wheel:
-Exducer Diameter: 2.51"
-Mayor Diameter: 3.58"
Turbine Housing:
-A/R: .84
-Type: Divided
-Discharge: 4 Bolt
-inlet: T3
Compressor housing:
-A/R: .70
-Air Inlet: 4.00"


Intake Manifold: Flipside Customz SRi
Engine Management: C2 Stage I (4 Bar)




Running only 8 LBS. Pretty tame Until about 4000 RPMS, and then Started Spooling. Technically it should spool earlier but my fueling hasn't been perfect.
Here are some videos


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## Shinko (Jul 18, 2009)

New Turbo
ebay GT35 (Don't judge me, I had to get it moving. Seems pretty responsive for low boost applications)

Specs:

Compressor A/R: 0.7 Interchange Part Number: T3 Flange; GT35
Compressor Inducer /Exducer: 61.5mm/81.5mm 
Flange (Turbo Manifold): T3 4-Bolt Flange 
Brand: maxpeedingrods
Flange (Downpipe): 4-Bolt Flange 
Part Brand: MaxpeedingRods Performance Parts
Turbine A/R: 0.63 Horse Power Increment: 
Turbine Inducer /Exducer: 68mm/62.4mm 
Compressor Inlet / Outlet Spec: 4inch(103.5mm)/2.5inch(64.7mm)
Cooling Type: Water and Oil cooled

Setup
Intake Manifold: Flipside Customs SRI (Driver's Side Throttle Body)
Intercooler: Precision AS1025
Turbo Manifold: ebay clone
Compression: Stock (MKIV 12v)
Software / ECU: C2 Stage I
Exhaust: ATP 3" V-Band Down-pipe -> 1.8T 3" all the way.

Building positive pressure: 2k on the Gauge


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## jimivr6 (Feb 18, 2003)

Bump


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

marlonlyn said:


> Building positive pressure: 2k on the Gauge


Sounds about right.


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## noskeh (Mar 11, 2004)

Garrett TO4E 57Trim 
T4 On Center P trim turbine housing (58/ar)
3" downpipe all the way back
268 Cams 2.9clone intake

Spool is pretty much instant by 2k, 15psi pulls solid for the street but I think it chokes out on the hwy on hard 3rd and 4th gear pulls up top.

Debating on trying out either a bigger turbine housing or going with a precision 5862 or 6262


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## francescodenetto (Jan 15, 2014)

What is The Best turbo for 400hp with fast spool (2500 rpm) and Good At high ( 6200 rpm)

Inviato dal mio SM-N9005 utilizzando Tapatalk


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