# Who will be the 1st to build a NA Tiguan R or Tiguan EA888 GEN 3?



## OttaCee (Mar 31, 2000)

Inspired by this Golf thread: Since we can't buy a Golf R Sportwagen, I'm...
He took a Sportwagon with the 1.8T and swapped almost everything from a wrecked Golf R to build a R Sportswagon. What I found interesting is most of the drivetrain swap was pretty straightforward. 

We know there's Tiguan's with the EA888 Gen 3 stock from the factory over in Europe. So the platform has supported it and software coding to reference. 
Is it just that easy to swap over the drivetrain (engine, transmission) from a GTI, make a few coding changes and thats it? 

Has anyone thought about this swap yet? (if the tuners had come out with turbo kits, would ignore this discussion but losing hope a engine swap might be the only solution)
What am I missing that makes this somewhat feasible to attempt?


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## snowdrift86 (Jan 6, 2020)

I've seriously considered that or if the gen3-b can handle the is38. Highly interested on possible answers to come in this thread


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## ec2k1gt (Feb 24, 2011)

Lol you're not the only one, coming from the R I can't shake the thought of doing some sort of swap to make the Tiguan more enjoyable.

Theoretically the GTI engine would work as it's identical to the 162TSI engine offered overseas, the transmission however would be a different story, Europe gets the DQ500 and the US GTI gets the DQ250. The GTI transmission would also pose an issue for any AWD Tiguan as the transmission does not have the mounting points for the bevel box.

I think the easiest bet would be to find a wrecked R /S3 and swap over the entire drivetrain along with engine wiring harness and ECU. I'm sure there would be some wiring involved to ensure that the ECU communicates with the rest of the vehicle but nothing impossible to figure out. The biggest question would be whether or the ECU and Mechatronics for the DSG could be programmed with a Tiguan VIN to allow it to communicate with the rest of the vehicle.


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## snowdrift86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Even just the engine mates to the 8spd I think would be a good combo! I have zero doubts it could handle that power for a long term application


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## ec2k1gt (Feb 24, 2011)

That would also be an option, the Atlas and Arteon both use the same 8spd Aisin transmission. 

The Atlas engine being similar to the gti, and the Arteon engine being detuned Golf R engine.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Here is a donor car for your project 









PARTING OUT: 2020 Audi RS3 - auto parts - by owner - vehicle...


Parting out or for sale: 2020 Audi RS3 perfect 2.5L swap donor car for your MK6 and mk7 VW Golf / GTI / Golf R or Audi A3 / S3. 2.5L 5 cylinder turbocharged engine DSG transmission differential...



seattle.craigslist.org


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## Jester2893 (May 2, 2008)

christophe15 said:


> Here is a donor car for your project
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As a RS3 owner, I advocate for this swap. The 2.5 is a very fun engine and would be a blast in the Tiguan, similar to the RSQ3.


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## ec2k1gt (Feb 24, 2011)

Officially pulled the trigger on the first piece of the swap this morning. 2019 Arteon engine with 279 miles, pulled from an IIHS test vehicle. This engine is identical to what is found in the MK7.5 Golf R, now it's time to find a DSG gearbox.


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## snowdrift86 (Jan 6, 2020)

Oh snap! You're going full R swap with the trans to ey? Keep us posted please. I'm up for atleast the engine myself!


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## alexc93 (Jun 17, 2018)

Ever make any progress with this?


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## mrew42 (2 mo ago)

Shame you guys can't get the more powerful motors








Tiguan Allspace R


Yesterday I had a day out to Milton Keynes, courtesy of Awesome GTI and Racingline to take part in a Beta test for the EA888 Gen4 245PS engine on my Allspace. I found out about the Beta test through Awesome GTI's Youtube channel so reached out to Tabby who put me in touch with Ben, at...




www.tiguanforums.co.uk


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## geekycarguy (Jan 30, 2012)

People is38 swap the 2.0t gen3b polo gti. I don't think the gen3b 2.0t engine is the main issue.


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## alexc93 (Jun 17, 2018)

geekycarguy said:


> People is38 swap the 2.0t gen3b polo gti. I don't think the gen3b 2.0t engine is the main issue.


I think one of the APR development cars blew up with too much power. An IS38 tuned AWD Tiguan would be an incredible daily. I wonder what the weak spots are and what can be done to avoid blowing the motor.


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## geekycarguy (Jan 30, 2012)

alexc93 said:


> I think one of the APR development cars blew up with too much power. An IS38 tuned AWD Tiguan would be an incredible daily. I wonder what the weak spots are and what can be done to avoid blowing the motor.


The 8speed aisin automatic probably can't handle the power that well. The gen3b is similar to the gen4 motors. It has a better fuel system 250bar hpfp vs 200bar hpfp for mk7r/gti and it has a Raax continental turbo like the mk8r. The 8y a3 with 200hp has updated version of the tiguan motor.


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## alexc93 (Jun 17, 2018)

geekycarguy said:


> The 8speed aisin automatic probably can't handle the power that well. The gen3b is similar to the gen4 motors. It has a better fuel system 250bar hpfp vs 200bar hpfp for mk7r/gti and it has a Raax continental turbo like the mk8r. The 8y a3 with 200hp has updated version of the tiguan motor.
> View attachment 245956


I guess this goes back to my question of why aren’t these motors able to build more power? Based on what you’re saying above there’s no reason these shouldn’t be able to handle at least a 30% bump without affecting the Asin trans all that much?


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

For NA Tiguan, APR ECU tune can provide a 23%-38% increase in HP and a 27%-46% increase in TQ on stock transmission, depending on fuel type. From my experience, the APR Plus tune doesn't make it "fast" though.


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## geekycarguy (Jan 30, 2012)

alexc93 said:


> I guess this goes back to my question of why aren’t these motors able to build more power? Based on what you’re saying above there’s no reason these shouldn’t be able to handle at least a 30% bump without affecting the Asin trans all that much?


I don't think tuners want to deal with the automatic. If the tiguan in North America came with a dsg you would probably see tuners offering is38 and big turbo tunes for it. Like the gen3 tsi the row gen3b motors also came with direct and port injection.


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## AxelP (Jun 30, 2021)

our gen3b motor is different for starters. different enough to have it's limits. on the low range + sloppy aisin) it is not that bad, but wish for better. 
some differences are from audi 
1. Higher compression rate, thanks to variable cycle
2. only 1 headcam has adjustable phase shift/timing in contrary to audi where intake and exhaust are adjustable. 
3. no port injection only direct injection which will lead to the same old nice issue with carbon deposits down the line. 
4. recommended oil 0w20 I start questioning it after some research and "butt" feel
5. IS20 but not IS20 in stock... and so on. 
I would be happy to have golf R engine and dsg in tig) in EU they have that and it is a family rocket!


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## geekycarguy (Jan 30, 2012)

AxelP said:


> our gen3b motor is different for starters. different enough to have it's limits. on the low range + sloppy aisin) it is not that bad, but wish for better.
> some differences are from audi
> 1. Higher compression rate, thanks to variable cycle
> 2. only 1 headcam has adjustable phase shift/timing in contrary to audi where intake and exhaust are adjustable.
> ...


The gen3b engine in the USA/Canada has vvt on both intake and exhaust cams. It has vvl on the intake came. Port injection can probably be added to the gen3b motors here in North America just like port injection can be added to the North American spec mk7 gti/r/1.8t.
U.S. spec tiguan gen3b motor









polo gti 2.0t gen3b motor with direct and port injection.


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## ec2k1gt (Feb 24, 2011)

alexc93 said:


> Ever make any progress with this?


I did! I ditched the Aisin 8spd for a 7spd DSG as well, it's been up and running since Aug of 21. It's been an absolute blast to drive, however having owned a Golf R the weight difference even at Golf R power levels is evident, with that being said I have an EQT XL and MPI kit laying around which I'll be installing on the Tiguan in early spring.


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## AxelP (Jun 30, 2021)

ec2k1gt said:


> I did! I ditched the Aisin 8spd for a 7spd DSG as well, it's been up and running since Aug of 21. It's been an absolute blast to drive, however having owned a Golf R the weight difference even at Golf R power levels is evident, with that being said I have an EQT XL and MPI kit laying around which I'll be installing on the Tiguan in early spring.


need more details - how much, how did you get parts) how the install went!
I see some hard modifications for the engine mounts etc. 
big kudos on doing it!
my next question would be noise insulation and here we are entering audi world?


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## alexc93 (Jun 17, 2018)

ec2k1gt said:


> I did! I ditched the Aisin 8spd for a 7spd DSG as well, it's been up and running since Aug of 21. It's been an absolute blast to drive, however having owned a Golf R the weight difference even at Golf R power levels is evident, with that being said I have an EQT XL and MPI kit laying around which I'll be installing on the Tiguan in early spring.


Very nice! Would love to hear how much work was involved as far as wiring, harness adaptation, and coding goes.

I assume the hardware aspect was relatively straightforward but getting everything to work was probably more complex.

Really surprised more people don’t do this because the only thing tiguans lack from factory is an adequate powertrain.


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## BenoYo1 (11 mo ago)

That looks amazing. Do you have any more pictures/videos?


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