# MKIV rear swaybar list



## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

This post collects all the information available on aftermarket rear anti-sway bars for VW MKIV platform cars intended for street use. Most bars are for FWD cars, but a few AWD bars are listed as well. Please see the suspension FAQ for more info. Most aftermarket rear bars are designed to compliment the factory bar, not replace it. Here are the OEM specs for front and rear swaybars:
# Golf: 21mm/18mm (front/rear)
# Jetta: 23mm/18mm (front/rear)
# GTI and most factory sport suspensions: 23mm/21mm (front/rear)
# R32/TT/4-motion: 20mm/18mm (front/rear) ???

In general, a thicker bar will be stiffer and hence provide more roll-resistance than a thinner bar. A solid bar of the same thickness will be stiffer, but hollow bars generally provide more roll-stiffness per pound of metal added. And remember, with performance tuning, weight is ALWAYS a concern.
As with any modification to your car's suspension, care should be taken to properly train yourself with the new mods on a closed-course race track. These mods can dramatically change the handling of your car and may surprise you in emergency situations if you don't have the proper experience.
Please keep the thread clean. This thread should not be a long discussion on which bar is better so just post a link to other discussion threads instead. Aftermarket front sway-bars & stress-bars are not listed here because they are far less important for VW MkIV performance. If you feel otherwise, feel free to start your own front sway bar or stress bar thread.
To have bars added to the list, please post the following:
# manufacturer
# product name
# product website
# MSRP or street retail price
# design style
# materials
# specs (wheel rate, weight, measurements etc.)
# installation tips and web links

I'll start things off with a couple pictures and a list of known bars.
Internal axle-beam mounted bars:
Pro:
# less expensive
# lighter
# more roll stiffness than end-link bars
# ground clearance unaffected
# unsprung weight unaffected
Con:
# more difficult to install
# permanent changes to axle beam required (drilling)
# not adjustable
# bolts must be inspected and may need to be re-torqued yearly
# additional roll stiffness may reduce ride comfort








Shine
# SRS rear swaybar
# http://www.srsvw.com/parts/partdetail.asp?pid=57
# http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=61
# $370 was $195
# Internal axle-beam mounting
# materials: "The bar has an OD of 1.125" and 0.250" wall thickness, TIG welded 4130 chrome-alloly steel. CNC machined, Jig built, Normalized and heat treated. Bar weighs 6.5 pounds and uses USA made grade 8 3\8 inch hardware. 32 inches OAL. All bars are powdercoated."
# specs: approx 359.2 lbs/inch? calculated deflection
# install tips: requires drilling 8 holes in axle beam http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2036197
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...10939

Bildon/VW Motorsport
# A4 Rear Sway Bar
# http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...av=10
# $150 MSRP
# Internal axle-beam mounting
# materials: solid 4130 chrome-alloy steel
# specs: 20 pounds, ~2300 pounds/degree???
# install tips: requires drilling 8 holes in axle beam

O-bars
# O-bars rear sway bar
# http://www.o-bars.com/products.html#sway
# $100 MSRP
# Internal axle-beam mounting
# materials: powercoated finish
# specs:
# install tips: requires drilling 8 holes in axle beam http://www.o-bars.com/install-sway.html
------------------
Conventional end-link & rear-shock mounted bars:
Pro:
# easier to install
# do not require permanent changes to axle beam (most)
# adjustable for different roll-stiffness vs. comfort settings (most)
Con:
# more expensive
# heavier
# may reduce ground clearance of rear suspension
# less roll stiffness than internal axle-beam designs
# bushings may require regular maintenance and/or lubrication
# adds unsprung weight (may reduce suspension performance potential)








Autotech (AST)
# Clubsport/ lightweight adjustable swaybar (25mm or 28mm)
# http://www.autotech.com/catalog/susptung.htm
# $240 retail
# conventional end-link mounting, adjustable
# materials: 25mm-28mm OD, hollow steel bar
# specs:
# install tips: requires drilling 2 holes in axle beam

Neuspeed
# Rear Anti-sway bar (25mm-32mm)
# 25mm bar solid
# 28mm bar solid
# 32mm bar hollow
# $330-$430 retail
# conventional end-link mounting, adjustable
# materials: "smooth mandrel bends, aerospace-quality 6150 steel, machined ends, polyurethane bushings"
# specs: 428-560 inch-lbs/degree or approx 259.4 lbs/ft calculated deflection for 28mm bar at stiffest setting
# install tips: no drilling

H&R
# H&R rear sway bar (22mm, 25mm, or 28mm/adjustable)
# http://www.hrsprings.com/site/....html
# $200-$250 retail
# conventional end-link or rear-shock mounting, adjustable
# materials: 50CrV4 Cromoly steel 21mm-28mm OD
# specs: 22mm bars are not end-link mounted, but are fastened directly to the rear-shock bolts.
# install tips: no drilling

ABD
# ABD Racing Sway Bar Kit (28mm)
# 28mm bar
# $290
# conventional end-link mounting
# materials:
# specs:
# install tips:

Intrax
# Intrax adjustable Anti-roll bar kit
# http://www.mmrusa.com/intraxarb.htm
# $349 retail (kit includes front bar)
# conventional end-link mounting
# materials: powder-coated
# specs: 6 pounds
# install tips:

H-Sport
# Lightweight tubular design Front/Rear set
# http://www.pure-motorsport.com.../PA=7
# http://www.h-sport.com/cgi-bin...22813
# $380 (kit includes 27mm or 35mm adjustable front bar)
# conventional end-link mounting
# materials:
# specs: adjustable 22.5 or 30mm rear bar, Tubular construction for lightweight, Polyurethane bushings, Bushing brackets with 90 zerk fittings, Durable powder coating protection
# up to 284.1 lbs/inch rear rate.
# install tips:

Eibach
# Anti-Roll Kit
# http://www.pure-motorsport.com.../PA=7
# $269.95 retail (kit includes 22mm front bar)
# conventional rear shock mounting
# materials:
# specs: 25mm
# install tips:

Black Forest Industries
# http://store.blackforestindust....html
# $195
# These are 25mm solid, 3 way adjustable bars with polyurethane bushings and heim joint endlinks. The bar and all the hardware is CAD plated for long term durability. There is no drilling required and installation can be done in less than 30mins.

Addco rear swaybar
# http://www.shox.com http://www.addco.net
# $129.95
# 7/8" or 1" thick; adjustable


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## petesell (May 7, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*

excellent http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif a list of vendors for each bar would be helpful as well.


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## RichB (Jun 7, 2003)

Nice summary! Just a quick note on the Autotech Clubsport bar... You only beed to driil TWO holes (not four) in the axle beam to install it.


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## ALEX_GTI_1.8T_2003 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*

Good write up I know one that http://www.bioldon.com sells but it is similer to the Shine rear sway....
Check it out


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*

Great list! 
One thing to add is that Internal axle-beam mounted bars affect ride comfort more than the conventional RSB, it basically makes the semi-independent rear suspension into a dependent one. Not sure if this needs to be mentioned here or not?


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (alexb75)*

Alex75 you got it exactly backwards! Bars that mount inside the beam dont add ANY unsprung weight at all and are linear in their response. This gives a better ride than a poorly designed bar with bends and bushings that mounts to the shock mount. 
Dick Shine


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (SRSVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SRSVW* »_Alex75 you got it exactly backwards! Bars that mount inside the beam dont add ANY unsprung weight at all and are linear in their response. This gives a better ride than a poorly designed bar with bends and bushings that mounts to the shock mount. 
Dick Shine










Thanks Dick, I forgot about the unsprung weight issue. I wouldn't say those end-link bars are a bad design though. They are great for folks who are leasing and just want a little extra performance without having to drill holes.


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## ALEX_GTI_1.8T_2003 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_

Thanks Dick, I forgot about the unsprung weight issue. I wouldn't say those end-link bars are a bad design though. They are great for folks who are leasing and just want a little extra performance without having to drill holes.

Not only that but unless you want to run a full shine setup then the rear sway will be stressed to it's limit. I've seen a couple break when not used correctly, which means shine springs etc. But if this is the case what are the risks that it dose break even with the shine setup?


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## JoeVeeDubber (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_

Thanks Dick, I forgot about the unsprung weight issue. I wouldn't say those end-link bars are a bad design though. They are great for folks who are leasing and just want a little extra performance without having to drill holes.

I am quite happy with my Neuspeed 28mm sway bar, it definitely helped to reduce the understeer on my car, even oversteer is possible now with certain driving technique.


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (SRSVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SRSVW* »_Alex75 you got it exactly backwards! Bars that mount inside the beam dont add ANY unsprung weight at all and are linear in their response. This gives a better ride than a poorly designed bar with bends and bushings that mounts to the shock mount. 


Not my practical experience. You are right about unsrpung weight, but with bar inside the beam the rear end gets so rigid that the ride comfort is affected greatly.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (alexb75)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_
Not my practical experience. You are right about unsrpung weight, but with bar inside the beam the rear end gets so rigid that the ride comfort is affected greatly. 

Alex, I think you can attribute that to the increased roll stiffness rather than the design itself. You would likely get a similar effect with a stiffer end-link design bar.


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Alex, I think you can attribute that to the increased roll stiffness rather than the design itself. You would likely get a similar effect with a stiffer end-link design bar.

I just talk from my experience. On the same car, a Shine bar reduces comfort more than Neuspeed RSB, while providing less understee. This is a known fact with most people who have tried both. It's not a big deal in most cases as people who do the upgrades get very stiff shocks and springs and poly bushings, etc... but for people who value comfort, it makes a little difference.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (alexb75)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_
I just talk from my experience. On the same car, a Shine bar reduces comfort more than Neuspeed RSB...
Don't you think this could be attributed to a difference in wheel rate, rather than sway bar design?
Not disputing your findings - you've tried both, I have not. I just don't agree with your rationale for why one bar was less comfortable than the other.


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (f1forkvr6)*

That's why I mentioned it may not be appropriate to add comfort to the characteristics of each. The thing with comfort is that, it's not easily explainable, specially for non-professionals (like me). I have experienced less comfort with Shine over and over again, I believe Peter has mentioned something like that as well, a couple of local guys who had both also mentioned the same thing. Basically, no one noticed a big difference in comfort when they got Autotech or Neuspeed, while there was a much noticeable difference in comfort when people got Shine. 
To me the normal bar has some give when one rear wheel goes on a bump, at the same time it transfers the force to the inner wheel in cornering. The o-bar and similar designs just makes the twistable beam more rigid, resulting in less independence in the rear suspension… It basically felt like a shopping cart, try to turn a shopping cart fast, and you lift the rear wheel. I guess this is getting off topic. Each has advantages/disadvantages and *I* would rate comfort as a disadvantage of Internal axle-beam mounted bars (if they are stiff) and less performance as disadvantage for the endlink conventional bars.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (alexb75)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_The thing with comfort is that, it's not easily explainable, specially for non-professionals (like me).
 Nor me ... and I agree with you here 100%.

_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_Basically, no one noticed a big difference in comfort when they got Autotech or Neuspeed, while there was a much noticeable difference in comfort when people got Shine. 

NS, AT = similar wheel rate
SRS = higher wheel rate
Don't you think there is a common theme here?

_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_To me the normal bar has some give when one rear wheel goes on a bump,
Maybe in the bushings ... but swaybars all do the same thing - regardless of how they are mounted. Especially in a single wheel jounce. They tie two wheels on the same axle together and allow the two springs to work together to reduce roll.

_Quote, originally posted by *alexb75* »_this is getting off topic.

Perhaps, but thoughtful analysis of this "phenomenon" bears some import, no?


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (f1forkvr6)*

Thnx for the replies... comfort is one of those topics that can be argued till the end of time with no concensus. 
I really don't have a scientific answer on why, but stated my experience. It could be the higher wheel rate as you explained... but no matter what the reason, the result was a less comfy ride on Shine...


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## Jetbill (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (alexb75)*

ABD rear 28mm was nice at first, but after two weeks it seemed to have loosend up alot!
i adjusted the end liks but im not quite sure what that did.


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## mr_e1974 (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (SRSVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SRSVW* »_Alex75 you got it exactly backwards! Bars that mount inside the beam dont add ANY unsprung weight at all and are linear in their response. This gives a better ride than a poorly designed bar with bends and bushings that mounts to the shock mount. 
Dick Shine









Mr. Shine (or anyone with experience with both types),

If I am going to be using the H&R Cup Kit on my '01 GTI GLX which is going to be the more "livable" option for a daily driver that is spiritedly driven on occassion but spends most of it's time on the freeway going from point A to point B? 
The external would obviously be the easier to install but the interenal would not adversly affect the ground clearance. Being thta I am unexperinced in suspension mods I would like your expert opinion. 
One last question...seeing that the drilling of 8 holes to provide the mounting location or the bar is necessary...is the complete removal of the rear axel necessary or can it be done at home in the garage while still on the car? Sorry about the novice questions...I appreciate your responses.


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (mr_e1974)*

Mr E an internal bar would see a lot of stress due to the soft low suspension you have chosen. An external bar would be a better choice,as handling isnt the highest priority. Expect a lot of understeer.
Dick Shine


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## mr_e1974 (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (SRSVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SRSVW* »_Mr E an internal bar would see a lot of stress due to the soft low suspension you have chosen. An external bar would be a better choice,as handling isnt the highest priority. Expect a lot of understeer.
Dick Shine









Mr. Shine, Thank you for your response. As far as the understeer goes...the MK IV GTI VR6 has plenty of htat from the get go







... what would you suggest if an individual wanted to both lower the car as well as improve the handling significantly without going to the cost of a coil-over suspension? The car is not going to be auto-crossed but I would like her to handle better and sit lower. Thanks again.


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## NOVAdub (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (mr_e1974)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mr_e1974* »_ The car is not going to be auto-crossed but I would like her to handle better and sit lower. Thanks again.
Lowering is counter productive to making your car handle well. You can do one or the other, and until someone makes some sort of drop spindles, you can not do both. If you want to lower the car for looks then keep the drop the a minimum. Neuspeed sofsports are a good example as they only lower ~.5" and offer improved spring rates.


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## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (NOVAdub)*

sorry to drag this out again.
O bar and Shine bar, to me, is 100$ difference, can someone convince me that the 100$ is soo much more worth it??


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (7thGear)*


_Quote, originally posted by *7thGear* »_sorry to drag this out again.
O bar and Shine bar, to me, is 100$ difference, can someone convince me that the 100$ is soo much more worth it??









Probably not, but I'll try.
Mr. Shine is active on these forums supporting customers while Mr O-bar keeps quiet. It is a mystery how the O-bars are manufactured, yet Mr. Shine provides every detail you would want to know about his bar. You could always just split the difference and go with Bildon too








When there is competition like this, in the end you usually get what you pay for.


_Modified by phatvw at 3:20 PM 4-7-2005_


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## 7thGear (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
When there is competition like this, in the end you usually get what you pay for.
_Modified by phatvw at 3:20 PM 4-7-2005_

true, but if Dick Shine is a smart business man he will use the hype created around his bar to justify a high cost, i know i would.
but i mean honestly, welding 4 little pipes to 1 large pipe. 100 dollars is roughly 4 hours of labour, does it really take 4 more hours of labour for Dick to make his bar than the other guys?? i for one suck at welding, but i mean anyone in the business of custom fab, i would assume know what they are doing. 
i just got a quote back from O-bar (in less than 3 minuets of me filing a question) and i can have it shipped to my door in canada for 130 (plus whatever duty, but i have ways to get around that)


_Modified by 7thGear at 3:28 PM 4-7-2005_


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (7thGear)*

I can assure that there is a lot more than welding 4 tubes involved in this!
I use premium steel tubing,not junk bar stock,heat treat after TIG welding instead of MIG welding with no treatment and I powdercoat my bars for appearance and corrosion prevention. My bars fit tight and correctly! They dont sqeak or make noise if installed correctly and are the most effective,lightest,highest quality bar money can buy. Engineering data and rates are available on request and we continually test and improve our product. The O bar is a cheap knockoff that has none of these features and I calculated a 28.00$ manufacturing cost to produce . Mine are more expensive for a reason! I put a lot more into them. My bar is a bargain at the current price! I constantly improve my product and test on the race track,and street. O bar doesnt do any of this. Sometimes you get what you pay for.
Dick Shine


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## Wolf1.8 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (SRSVW)*

Maybe Dick can post up on this as well...
the "race" version of your rear bar...How much of a difference is it over the normal bar that you sell?? Specs?? 
I have your rear bar and I was just wondering how much of a step up it would be.


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## Slipstream (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (Wolf1.8)*

A bump up here, but also a question... It has been mentioned that the internally mounted bars require drilling, which in turn means a more permenant modification to the car. That being said, if the internal bar is ever removed, will the holes left by the bar cause any sort of structural integrity issues? Or is it just a matter of having holes in the beam (and thus, raising suspicions by the dealer upon lease return, or a potential buyer)?


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (Slipstream)*

I can't comment on the structural integrity of the beam with holes. But I can't see it as being stressed anywhere near its designed loads. As for the holes, I'm sure you can get some rubber caps from any hardware store and plug them up nicely so no one would really question too much.


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (traffic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *traffic* »_But I can't see it as being stressed anywhere near its designed loads.

I agree 100% since the location of those holes is not in the high stress areas and the holes are so small relative to the size of the beam. Putting a Shine/O-bar type bar on causes much higher stress (on the ends of the beam) than the stress around the holes without the bar. So no worries...


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (Wolf1.8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wolf1.8* »_Maybe Dick can post up on this as well...
the "race" version of your rear bar...How much of a difference is it over the normal bar that you sell?? Specs?? 
I have your rear bar and I was just wondering how much of a step up it would be.
 I would like to get some more info on the " race bar as well" what the difference is and about how much stiffer.I have the shine street version now . Ill be intalling some mods to the front end soon to make it steer better and after im finished if it still understeers , i would like to install a stiffer rear bar or just add a external bar like NS, HR , ETC







Bob.G


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## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*

A new one to add:
H-Sport: 30MM Hollow Rear Anti-Roll Bar
Rear Bar Stiffness in lbs/in 
Soft 237.65 lb/in
Medium 259.28 lb/in
Stiff 284.10 lb/in


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## briang (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_
Got it. Seems that purems has different info on this same model number

I stole my info from H-Sport's website.








http://www.h-sport.com/cgi-bin...22813


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## pher24ball (May 30, 2006)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*

the shine bar is $396 not $195 for anyone who is interested.


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## mariomega (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (pher24ball)*

Since this thread is back from dead... I'm going to ask something I've been wondering recently.
Does anyone know the difference in stiffness between the bildon and the o-bar internally mounted bars?
They seem to be priced better than the shine bar


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (mariomega)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mariomega* »_Since this thread is back from dead... I'm going to ask something I've been wondering recently.
Does anyone know the difference in stiffness between the bildon and the o-bar internally mounted bars?
They seem to be priced better than the shine bar









Nobody knows because neither the data nor that materials/manufacturing process is published. Contact the vendors directly and see what they say. I'll post any information you are able to get right here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*

Prices in this list definitely need to be updated. A lot of them are much higher now.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (The Kilted Yaksman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Kilted Yaksman* »_Prices in this list definitely need to be updated. A lot of them are much higher now.

I updated a few more prices, but I couldn't find all the bars. Let me know what you find out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (phatvw)*

The MKIV rear at Autotech is now $299.99. http://www.autotech.com/prod_susp_swybars.htm 
Working my way through H&R's site if find the prices are $219, $259 and $269 for the available bars. http://www.hrsprings.com/site/index.html 
I think everything else is correct.








ETA: It looks like PureMS no longer carries Eibach bars for the MKIV.


_Modified by The Kilted Yaksman at 3:20 PM 7-13-2007_


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## mariomega (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (The Kilted Yaksman)*

I just got a response from bildon about their rear sway. They said:
About 2300 lbs per degree of twist.
There is no "arm" to get a linear measurement from.


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## flygliii (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (mariomega)*

Great post!


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## JettaJoey (Feb 2, 2002)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (flygliii)*

would be better if it was the 28mm sway bar instead of 25mm


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## nick526 (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (JettaJoey)*

how far in do the internal mounted bars go? I've noticed my axle beam has what appear to be torsion bars inside and was curious how the sway bar would fit in there


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV rear swaybar list (nick526)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nick526* »_how far in do the internal mounted bars go? I've noticed my axle beam has what appear to be torsion bars inside and was curious how the sway bar would fit in there

See
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2036197
http://peterpyce.com/Shine/Shine-001.jpg
http://peterpyce.com/Shine/Shine-002.jpg
http://peterpyce.com/Shine/Shine-003.jpg
http://peterpyce.com/Shine/Shine-004.jpg
http://peterpyce.com/Shine/Shine-005.jpg
http://peterpyce.com/Shine/Shine-006.jpg
There are two different OEM rear swaybars. One has a detachable vibration damper which you can unbolt when you install the shine bar. The other design has an integrated vibration damper which you have to slice away at with a saw or knife to get the Shine bar to fit well. Not a big deal either way.


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## arashb (May 21, 2011)

Do not purchase a Bildon using the link. I bought one 2 weeks ago and emailed Bildon today about my order. They say they have no idea how I ordered one since they do not make it. You would think they'd email me soon after to let me know there was an error.

How thoughtful of them to hold my money and not let me know until I had to ask..

Just letting you guys know as a warning, or better, just remove the link.


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