# No spark, no MIL light after transmissioni change



## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

Replaced bad transmission on my 96 A4 2.8 quattro auto. Now no spark, no fuel, no MIL light with ignition on.
No rpm signal in VAGcom engine module group 3.
Replaced crank sensor, no change.
Took engine speed (RPM) sensor out: error code in VAGcom; reinstalled, now RPM signal when cranking
Only error code is in trans module (see below; brake light switch) and HVAC and airbags (see complete log from today below):

Thursday,02,December,2010,15:45:11:22662

VCDS Version: Release 10.6.2



Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl

Control Module Part Number: 8D0 927 156 J

Component and/or Version: AG5 01V 2.8l2V US D89

Software Coding: 00000

Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

VCID: 3469E80D2E47

1 Fault Found:


00526 - Brake Light Switch-F

27-00 - Implausible Signal

Could this error cause 'no spark'?
How can I fix this "brake light switch". Where is it located?
Pressing the brake pedal is activating the shifter lock relay (audible, and light on shifter console turns off), so at least one switch (are there more brake pedal switches?) is working.

The only other errors are HVAC and Airbag (see latest log below).

The MIL light is still not coming on when ignition is turned on. I ran the output test in VAGcom (Instrument module, output test sequence, but I don't see that it tests the bulb; better said: I don't know if the output test sequence is supposed to turn the MIL light on). Can someone post the VAGcom instructions for output test of the MIL light?

We manually (spark plug out) tested for NO SPARK. I haven't checked "NO FUEL" yet (need to pick up the Noid light again).

I bought another ECU, but I would be surprised that the ECU is causing the issue (VAGcom does not show anything that would point at the ECU). I ran several output tests (transmission clicks valves through, engine module outputs seem to audibly work, etc.). I have the control module code saved (in case swapping ECU requires recoding of the new ECU).

I have not replaced the cam sensor yet; checks seem to confirm that it is working, and I am not sure if the cam sensor would cause the ECU suppress spark.

Now that we have an RPM signal, what else may cause 'no spark'. Assuming 'no fuel' in addition (to be confirmed again, but that's what we had last time) and 'no MIL'.

What else to check?


**-


No Faults Found

Thursday,02,December,2010,14:06:15:22662
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.2

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8D0 927 156 J
Component and/or Version: AG5 01V 2.8l2V US D89
Software Coding: 00000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00000
VCID: 3469E80D2E47
No Faults Found

or DTCs not supported by controller
a communication error occurred

VCDS Version: Release 10.6.2
Data version: 20101123

Thursday,02,December,2010,15:11:34:22662

Chassis Type: 8D - Audi A4 B5
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 25 35 37 45 55 56 57 67 75 76 77

Mileage: 211470km/131401miles
************************************************** ****************************-
Address 01: Engine Labels: None
Part No: 8D0 906 266 B
Component: 2,8l V6/2V MPI OBD2 D01
Coding: 01251
Shop #: WSC 06325
VCID: 2B5BF371F379

No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01V-927-156.lbl
Part No: 8D0 927 156 J
Component: AG5 01V 2.8l2V US D89
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 3469E80D2E47

2 Faults Found:
00293 - Multi-function Switch (F125)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00526 - Brake Light Switch-F
27-00 - Implausible Signal

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 4D0-907-379-ABS.lbl
Part No: 4D0 907 379 J
Component: ABS/EDS BOSCH 5 7679
Shop #: BB 37679
VCID: 356FD509253D

No fault code found.

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8L0-820-043-2D.lbl
Part No: 8L0 820 043 D
Component: A4 KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT_D75
Coding: 04162
Shop #: WSC 06325
VCID: 29570979F985

4 Faults Found:
01297 - Sensor for Vent Temperature; Footwell (G192)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
01296 - Sensor for Vent Temperature; Center (G191)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01582 - Signal for Coolant Temperature
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8A0-959-655.lbl
Part No: 8A0 959 655 D
Component: Airbag V AUDI D00
Coding: 00127
Shop #: WSC 06334
VCID: 3469E80D2E47

4 Faults Found:
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error
00-10 - - - Intermittent
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
00588 - Airbag Igniter; Driver Side (N95)
32-10 - Resistance too High - Intermittent
01025 - Trigger for On Board Diagnostic Lamp; Malfunction
31-10 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent

************************************************** ****************************-
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8D0-919-0xx-17.lbl
Part No: 8D0 919 035 G
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTRUMENT D08
Coding: 00262
Shop #: WSC 02032
VCID: 2E5DFA65C06B

No fault code found.

End ************************************************** ******************-


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeesh.

First, the brake light switch error is thrown if you don't press the brake pedal before the scan, so you can probably ignore that.

Next, since it's cranking, the first thing I'd do is figure out why there's no spark. I'd start by checking the coil resistances (don't know the exact specs, but I'm guessing single digits in Ohms, with the primary higher than the secondary winding), and check that they have power.

However, with that many codes, all electrical, I suspect that there is a short-circuited sensor or control module that is corrupting all the other signals, including the crank and/or cam position sensor. So, try disconnecting anything that isn't absolutely needed to start the car (climate, MAF, CTS, O2, ABS, etc..., basically everything but the cam and crank position sensors, not sure about the trans. module). If that gets you a spark, plug them back in one by one until you find the culprit.

Good luck.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

O_o said:


> Yeesh.
> 
> First, the brake light switch error is thrown if you don't press the brake pedal before the scan, so you can probably ignore that.
> 
> ...


Thanks regarding brake light. Should I keep my foot on the brake when running the next VAGcom scan? Or just press once than scan? Just want to get this off the list.

Good point with 'unplugg and eliminate'. I have (since it was the only obvious 'change' in the whole process from 'running motor with bad trans' to 'not running motor with new trans') unplugged the 2 trans connectors, but won't crank.

Took Engine Speed (RPM) sensor off (can't locate a source to buy one, no part number) but left plugged in: error code (shows me it works)

Is cam sensor needed to get spark?

Can we make a list what can come off (not needed to start engine)? Please, everyone, chime in:
- O2 sensors (all 4)
- MAF sensor G70
- Sensor EVAP canister G172
- Engine Coolatn Temerature ECT sensor G62
- Knock Sensor (KS)2 G66 (left and right bank)
- EGR temp sensor G98
- Idle control IAC valve N71
- Throttle Position TP sensor G69

Please add, correct any sensor/connector, etc. that can be taken off


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Does transmission code matter?*

At the onset of the project (replace bad transmission caused by trans cooler leak in radiator, install new radiator), I looked up what trans I need. 

1996 Audi A4 2.8 quattro automatic

Based on VIN and Year:
WAUEA88D0TA209419
Engine code (5th): A (indicates 1997 SOHC according to Haynes manual)
Model year (10th): T (indicates 1996)
Built date (sticker): 03/96

Looking for used trans (car-part.com etc.), they all show transmission code CJP and offer 1996 and 1997 compatible years.

I found a CJP out of a 1997 and bought it. After problems started, I took photos from both transmission (to upload to forums etc.) and found that the new trans was in deed a 5HP19, code CJP. BUT THE OLD TRANS WAS CODE DRN (which based on my info is not supposed to be in the car).

1997 A4 2.8 quattro auto could have:
A.T., 2.8L, Quattro, code CJP 
or
A.T., 2.8L, Quattro, code DRN 

I don't know how the DRN got into my 1996 (and the built date is not even close to model year change).

I also don't know if the trans has anything to do with spark, fuel etc (but know that if I disconnect the trans connectors, it won't crank; also can run output test in VAGcom, trans module and valves are clicking; and VAGcom runs error code check)

Just want to get input to rule out more potential sources for the problem.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Engine Speed (RPM) sensor G28 - troubling photo - location 2.8 engine*

My Engine Speed (RPM) sensor is/was located on the driver side near, mid way up of the ENGINE block.

In Bentley is a photo showing another location of the crank, on the driver side of the TRANSMISSION housing (currently an open hole), that I found with search function.

Could that refer to the 30V (NOT AFC) 2.8 liter engine? Can someone confirm? Again, just wanting to rule out stuff.

Text: G28 Engine Speed (RPM) sensor (2.8 ltr. Engine): in transmission bellhousing, driver's side, front; mounting boss shown (w/out sensor)


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Engine Control Module (ECM) - connector pin out*

I can't find a good, readable pin out for the ECM connectors. For continuity (and diode test, voltage test, resistance test, etc.), I could use a good diagram that shows the connector letter and the numbers of the individual pins.

Can someone post a good one for my ECM
(Bentley Code J192, ECM 8D0 906 266 B)?


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

vtraudt said:


> Or just press once than scan?


^^ this. For some reason, the memory state is not saved when the key is removed.



vtraudt said:


> I have [...] unplugged the 2 trans connectors, but won't crank.


Probably it won't start unless it can confirm it is in "P" or "N".



vtraudt said:


> Is cam sensor needed to get spark?


Definitely.



vtraudt said:


> - O2 sensors (all 4)
> - MAF sensor G70
> - Sensor EVAP canister G172
> - Engine Coolatn Temerature ECT sensor G62
> ...


I can't think of anything to add, but I'm not sure if it will start with N71 disconnected.

You can also disconnect the climate control and ABS modules, and anything to do with the airbags. I honestly don't know if there's an airbag module in the tree, or if each airbag has its own controller. Never dealt with airbags myself.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Update: No Spark, Have Fuel: ignition SIGNAL or ignition POWER problem?*

Here is the status update from yesterdays activities:
- check fuses in driver side door fuse panel: ok
- confirm RPM signal in VAGcom when cranking
- confirmed no codes (transmission code gone with foot on brake pedal)
- put NOID light on injectors: have fuel
- confirmed: NO SPARK
- installed new cam sensor G40 on rear head of driver side cylinder: no change
- ran output test with VAGcom in instrument module: did NOT see MIL lamp come on (like burnt out? also did not hear chime)
- ran output test in more modules (engine, trans; all seem (audible) good)

no spark trouble shooting done:
- ignition power output stage N122: 3 pin connector: should have battery voltage against ground with ignition on: NO
- 4 pin connector: check ground: OK
- signal check: connected NOID light between connector Ground and 1,2, 4, cranking: NO LIGHT
- wire check: checked resistance from 4 pin connector to ECM B5-7: values: 15, 20, 50 Ohm. High, possibly caused by crocodile clamps and very thin steel pin (for ECM plug). ????

Questions:
a) should NOID light light up with signals coming from ECM?
b) Is resistance in wire from 4 pin to ECM unusally high?
c) Should we see battery voltage on 3 pin no matter what ECM or sensors are doing?
d) essentially: are we not getting spark SIGNAL or problem in supplying ignition with POWER.

I need urgent suggestions what to check/do next?


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*THE END - for now on this subject*

HE END - for now on this subject 

Guys, I learned a lot. 

Engine is running (transmission pissing). 

What it was you ask? Glad you ask, love proofing myself to be an ass. 

THE BLACK AND DARK BROWN (ICM) CONNECTORS WERE SWITCHED. 

When talking about this possibility ("are all those connectors in the right place?") we answered to ourselves: they are coded, and the wires wouldn't reach any other way anyway! 

More than 2 weeks (20 mile round trip each time) of 4 hours per day later, the problem is solved. 

This is NOT how it is supposed to look like: 

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/vtraudt/1996 Audi A4 V6 auto/IMG_5217.jpg


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*New trans slips - coding or hardware?*

Symptom: trans pulls in first and reverse, but slips as soon as shifting up. 

Attempted fix: fill ATF per instructions (engine running, temp under 40 C, shifting through gears, overflowing fill tube). 

Issues: Could a possible mismatch between TCM and trans cause such issue? 

Problem: Car had DRN trans (not used in 1996, more a 1998 trans; must have been changed by previous owner). I replaced with CJP (used in 1996, 1997). Current TCM code is 8D0 927 156J (VAGcom read), softcode 00000 

I had one error code (2 short test drives, may 2 miles total): 
00652 - Gear Monitoring 
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent 

Rosstech Wiki has to say: 
00652 - Gear Monitoring: Implausible Signal 

Possible Causes 

* Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) Level not OK 
* Vehicle Speed Sensor (G68) dirty/faulty 
o Impulse Wheel dirty or Installation faulty 
* Gearbox Speed Sensor (G38) dirty/faulty 
o Impulse Wheel dirty or Installation faulty 
* Multi-Function Switch (F125) faulty (but not detected) 
* Clutch or Valve Body faulty 
* Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) Pump faulty 

Possible Solutions 

* Check Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) Level 
* Check/Clean/Replace Vehicle Speed Sensor (G68) 
* Check/Clean/Replace Gearbox Speed Sensor (G38) 
* Check/Replace Multi-Function Switch (F125) 
* Check/Replace Clutch and/or Valve Body 

Special Notes 

* The ratio of engine speed to gearbox output speed in the currently engaged gear is implausible. 
* Slip rpm with torque converter lock-up clutch disengaged must be greater than stall speed. 

With first (what gear is the car starting out in D?) and reverse gear pulling strong, but NO pull otherwise, can I rule out: 
- ATF fluid? 
- gear box speed sensor G38? 
- vehicle speed sensor G68? 
- clutch/valve body (assuming new trans worked fine before)? 
- ATF pump faulty? 

What to do next? 

Checkout, add, update, correct (maybe with VAGcom reads from YOUR car) the info below for documentation sake. 

Also found for this error: 
P0733 
00652 
Gear 3 Incorrect Ratio 
P0734 
00652 
Gear 4 Incorrect Ratio 
P0735 
00652 
Gear 5 Incorrect Ratio 



From Bentley: 
1996 (my car): 
8D0 927 156J 
8D0 927 156F 

1997 (donor car with CJP, and year DRN used): 
8D0 927 156J 

1998 (some DRN used): 
8D0 927 156Q 
8D0 927 156BQ 
8D0 927 156BR 
8D0 927 156P 


1999 (DRN used): Bentley not showing the TCM code 


2000 (some DRN used): 
8D0 927 156AS 
8D0 927 156AT 

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/...V6 auto/Audi28enginestransmissionTCMcodes.jpg 

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/vtraudt/1996 Audi A4 V6 auto/Calibration1.jpg


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Trans slips - DTC code 00652 - P0732 to P0735*

Some more on the error code: 

P0732: engine rpm/trans input rpm/trans rpm faulty 
P0732: ATF level not ok 
P0732: faulty/*wrong converter* 
P0732: clutch slip 
P0732: valve body or solenoid valves faulty 
P0732: wrong trans or engine control module 

P0733: ditto 

P0734: ditto 

P0735: ditto plus Multi-Function Switch faulty


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Trans lines*

Just thinking: Is it possible to hook up the trans fluid lines wrong going to the radiator?


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

Glad you sorted at least part of your problem out. I have trouble telling the colour of wires sometimes. True story: when I was in school, I took an electronics course where we had lab partners. Not knowing anybody in the class, I asked the guy next to me if he wanted to team up. He agreed. It was not until the first lab that we discovered we were the only two colourblind people in the class. We blew up a lot of breadboards that year... 

I don't know much about slushboxes, but didn't you say you swapped one in with a different trans code? If so, then you need to find out what the gear ratios are. That could be the problem right there. If the ratios are different than it's expecting, it will confuse the ^&*#$ out of it, and it won't know when to shift (explains the rough shifts). If that's the case, you'd probably need the donor car's TCM, and/or an ECU reflash.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Transmission update from test drive*

I took the car out yesterday for another test drive (car was 50 deg, outside was 15 deg). Trans Code from last (00652 - Gear Monitoring 27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent) erased. 

VAGcom connected to see what trans is doing 
- reverse and 1st working fine 
- good torque (forward and reverse up very steep driveway) 
- accelerating fine, shifts into 2nd 
- stops pulling when shifting in 3rd 
- doesn't feel like 'free revving' but barely any pull 
- VAGcom shows solenoid 1 and 2 changing 
- solenoid 3 never changes 
- after 5 min or so (trans temp at ca. 50 deg C) VERY LITTLE PULL IN 1ST AND REVERSE. 
- BARELY MADE IT BACK INTO GARAGE ON ALMOST LEVEL 

Checked trans codes: 00652 - Gear Monitoring 27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent back again 

Did output test: 
Solenoid 1, 2, 3, 4 clicking (no click from 5 on) 

Why is first, second and reverse first working, then die? 
Why is 3rd (and up?) never working? 
Is solenoid 3 supposed to move? 

In what direction does the above point? 
- fluid low, dirty filter, bad fluid (did not look bad) 
- stuck valves (unknown how long donor car was sitting in yard) 
- incompatible TCM/trans/ECM 
- incompatible gear ratio 
- torque converter 
- 
I checked again the amount of ATF I was able to get in: 
2 quarts 

ATF losses that occurred: 
- removing trans from donor car, trans lines disconnected, fluid in radiator: estimate 0.5 quart 
- some dripping over 3 weeks (estimate: < 0.5 quart) 
- removed drain plug with engine not running (accident); estimate: 1 quart (???) 
- spill from improper seated trans line to cooler:


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Disconnect electrical transmission to diagnose?*

Someone told me that the trans works to some extend even if the connectors (2 round plugs) are disconnected? 

Is that the case? 

If so, would this help with troubleshooting? If it works (say: 5th gear or whatever it uses without input from controller), it would point towards electrical (valve body, solenoids, TCM, ECM, sensors). If not (but supposed to), mechanical transmission issues (torque converter, filter, fluid, clutches, etc.)?


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Trans log*

After the short drive yesterday (slipping in all gears), I ran an output test on the trans module. I also did a log (foot on brake, car standing, shifting through gears), see link to image of log. Does it tell anything? 

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/vtraudt/1996 Audi A4 V6 auto/LOG-02-04E-057-067-077.jpg


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

Maybe you'll have better luck in the transmission forum. 

I still say you need to check the ratios and make sure they are the same for DRN and CJP though. If they're not, then that's probably your problem, as it will confuse the hell out of the TCM. 

Do you have tiptronic? If so, does it work in tip mode?


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

OK, so looking at your log, N88 it always open and N90 is always closed. That ain't right.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

O_o said:


> Maybe you'll have better luck in the transmission forum.
> 
> I still say you need to check the ratios and make sure they are the same for DRN and CJP though. If they're not, then that's probably your problem, as it will confuse the hell out of the TCM.
> 
> Do you have tiptronic? If so, does it work in tip mode?


 No trip. From other forum member some info on DRN trans (not sure why it says 2.5l V5?): 

_Here is the DRN can't find anything on CJP. 


Transmission code DRN 
Manuf dates 03/97 - 08/99 
Torque converter code F31 
Model Audi A4 1996 -> 
Engine 2.5L 5V 
Ratios 
1st 3.665 
2nd 1.999 
3rd 1.407 
4th 1.000 
5th 0.742 
Reverse 4.096_


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Trans log - Solenoids*



O_o said:


> OK, so looking at your log, N88 it always open and N90 is always closed. That ain't right.


 (Keep in mind car was stationary, just shifting through the gears) 
If that is NOT right, what might cause it? 
Can VAGcom shed more light onto it? How?


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

Maybe http://www.billswebspace.com/Touareg6speedautotranny.pdf will help. It's not your transmission, but they all work pretty much the same way.


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

You checked the transmission fluid level again after filling it? 

Also IIRC they switched the style of vss on the back of the transmission. Old style makes a sin waveform new style is variable voltage sensor. same connector plug different sensor and tcm programming.


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