# Im baaaaack "the beast" Jr.



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*THE WHITE RABBIT IN THIS THREAD WAS SOLD IN 2013*

*THIS IS BEAST JR. V2*

however, i found myself having the need to fulfill my urges for another mk1 16v. and that's when i picked up this!!! I decided to keep this thread going as there was some good info and intrest in this thread already. i have been working on this car for several months now, and have lots of pics that i will be sharing on here. and i'll make a list of mods and what it has and ill post it here, and on a new post on this thread.

thanx to anyone that has stopped by this thread. enjoy!

anyways heres a pic from the day i picked up the rabbit. engine ran, but was un-driveable...i couldnt wait to get home and get started.


and here it is in the garage


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*go to last page for current updates*


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

nice. are you going turbo?


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx fo rthe reply...nope... search "the beast" under my name...and u'l see where im goin :thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*UPDATE!!!*

soo i had some time to put this.....


and this...


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## 16ValveInside (Nov 20, 2004)

glad to see you are back


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx!...ive been following ur thread too! im at work today, tryin to find a place i could dyno at today, i really need to get some base numbers with this setup now. i really just wanna get some pulls with a wideband...

the block from the red car is toast, but i recently refreshed the cylinder head from it...and it will one day make its way into the rabbit...


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

pics from last weeks 50mm install :thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

installed :thumbup:


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## revolution_Jd3 (Jan 13, 2007)

props for the scirocco 50mm.... hard hard hard to source:beer: streets are watchinopcorn::thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanks man :thumbup:

gonna try to hit up the dymo this week, for a nice basleine number.....


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*UPDATE* 
sooo..i was never able to make it to the dyno like i had planned..BUT did get some more work done! 

i slapped on a set of oldschool UNORTHDOX lightweight underdrive pulleys.. which i had on the original beast.. 

underiven and lighter crank pulley, and lightweight waterpump pulley..same diamter as the outer one on stock setups.. it also gets rid of the stupid free spin pulley that makes noise.. 

i also have apower steering lightweight pulley which i dont need in the mk1  
and i also have the alternator pulley, but i havent got that from my old motor in storage..put i got a pic of teh setup soo far..


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## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

Very cool. Im curious to see how this goes- Your results with the last one were amazing. How does the car feel now?? Are you going to stay with stock internals/ head? 

Chris


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## GTIMaxx (Feb 12, 2003)

Bad ass!!!!! Are you gonna try to do the short runner style you dif on the red one?

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

heres a shot of the crank pulley and waterpump pulley installed and running


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx for the kind words.... i still have the cylidner head from "the beast" with EVERYTHING... im thinking of going to different cams with this car though.. ill snap a pic of the head..

and as for the short runner.. im posyched u remember! i found a pic of teh crazy setup...i did go to the dyno with it...but i NEVER revelaed the numbers..:laugh:


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

redGTInj said:


> thanx for the kind words.... i still have the cylidner head from "the beast" with EVERYTHING... im thinking of going to different cams with this car though.. ill snap a pic of the head..
> 
> and as for the short runner.. im posyched u remember! i found a pic of teh crazy setup...i did go to the dyno with it...but i NEVER revelaed the numbers..:laugh:


Did you ever get your old head flowed? It's not hard to get it to flow more than stock but you may be working in the dark if you don't have concrete flow numbers.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

redGTInj said:


> i did go to the dyno with it...but i NEVER revelaed the numbers..


any reason for that? are you willing to reveal them now?


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

ps2375 said:


> any reason for that? are you willing to reveal them now?


We're in 2011, it doesn't matter if you make 150 or 200whp, it's all been done, not posting your dyno numbers are more of a thing to keep you interested.

Just keep in mind that are turbo people making well over 500- 600wheel HPand post them without a problem


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

hmm wow that got everybody going... well i know it flows pretty damn good...i made 181WHP on cis-e at 7,600 rpm...


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

killa said:


> We're in 2011, it doesn't matter if you make 150 or 200whp, it's all been done, not posting your dyno numbers are more of a thing to keep you interested.
> 
> Just keep in mind that are turbo people making well over 500- 600wheel HPand post them without a problem


2011? I think you lost a year somewhere.

I don't really care what numbers the turbo people are making, I'm more interested in what the N/A motors make, and that particular n/a motor had some good numbers. And whether or not that particular intake was of a benefit or not would be interesting. And yes, a lot has been done, but not all share their results, and dynos are not all equal, but they are the best we have for comparing the results.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

ps2375 said:


> any reason for that? are you willing to reveal them now?


hey what's up! good to see ya stopped by its been awhile..

no real reason, just had a lot of things goin on, and had to put th ecars on the back burner, and then the motor ended up givin me problems... ill try and see if i have the actual printout i should somewhere..i also had them overlay before and after short runner...


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

redGTInj said:


> hmm wow that got everybody going... well i know it flows pretty damn good...i made 181WHP on cis-e at 7,600 rpm...


How did that compare with the stock mani? I don't remember that far back, normally.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

Thank you! :thumbup:


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

ps2375 said:


> 2011? I think you lost a year somewhere.
> 
> I don't really care what numbers the turbo people are making, I'm more interested in what the N/A motors make, and that particular n/a motor had some good numbers. And whether or not that particular intake was of a benefit or not would be interesting. And yes, a lot has been done, but not all share their results, and dynos are not all equal, but they are the best we have for comparing the results.


The fumes are getting to me


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

ps2375 said:


> How did that compare with the stock mani? I don't remember that far back, normally.


i never dyoned it with a stock mani...the mani i ran was a 50mm ported and polished upper and lower, with a Velocity overbored TB... i hav ethe lower part of the mani on the rabbit.. matched to the rocco upper :thumbup:


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## Bigwiggen (Sep 13, 2004)

He's back! I knew you couldn't be away from this for that long!


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

redGTInj said:


> hmm wow that got everybody going... well i know it flows pretty damn good...i made 181WHP on cis-e at 7,600 rpm...


 If you assume that a decently tuned 2Liter 16v motor makes 135wheel *Torque*, cut down the intake runners so move the peak power up and peak at 7500 you'll end up with 192whp ((135x7500)/5252) for example, so your high hp number might be just due to moving the peak torque up in the rpm range. 

Look at your dyno and compare the old torque to the new torque in order to see if you're really moving more air, Horsepower is not something you should use in gauging anything as it's just a function of Torque and Torque's the motor's true power output.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

Post any old dyno, I'll be nice to look at your torque curve.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

GOOD news i wa sable to find the old dyno with a 176WHP run and the short runner run overlayed...the graph is screwed up cause it got wet somehow ove rthe years and caused the lines to run...but the numbers are clear...

ill snap a pic and post in the AM..


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

killa said:


> so your high hp number might be just due to moving the peak torque up in the rpm range.


not to be disrespectful ,but I'm not really sure what ur tryin to prove?? it was a high hp number cause be i spent years thru trial and error and finding out what does and doesnt work..and where I come from WHP and a dyno sheet MEANS alot. 

anyways like u asked...heres an older dyno.. IIRC the rpm is off a little i had the stock jetronic rev limiter at 7,200rpm at this time.. later setup was able to rev much higher


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

redGTInj said:


> not to be disrespectful ,but I'm not really sure what ur tryin to prove?? it was a high hp number cause be i spent years thru trial and error and finding out what does and doesnt work..and where I come from WHP and a dyno sheet MEANS alot.
> 
> anyways like u asked...heres an older dyno.. IIRC the rpm is off a little i had the stock jetronic rev limiter at 7,200rpm at this time.. later setup was able to rev much higher


I'm not trying to prove anything, you said you had numbers and I like any other 16v guy would like to see them. Then you mentioned that your head flowed and I simply mentioned that just because you're making more whp it doesn't mean that your head is flowing more (not saying that it's not) and gave you the example that cutting the short runners down would move the powerband up considerably and justify your higher whp, I think I was pretty clear when I posted that and even gave examples.

I know where you come from, somewhere around Northern NJ, just like me. If you're like me then you've been to Ave P in the mid 90's and early 2000's, Hunts Point, Zerega, Global, York street (Eliz), Ikea (we started it then it was shut down), etc, all local.

But anyway, Just saw your dyno sheet, the torque looks pretty good, did you ever do a back to back run with a 50mm vs the cut down short runner? I ask because I had all that stuff done except for the runner maybe as early as 2000 but never dynoed anyway so yes, i'm curious and I'm not downplaying anything you're doing :thumbup::beer:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

i feel ya...and believe me if read alot of your threads to back in teh day..much respect.. this dyno sheet is not form the rabbit but my mk2 gti that i have..

pictured here..


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

killa said:


> and gave you the example that cutting the short runners down would move the powerband up considerably and justify your higher whp, I think I was pretty clear when I posted that and even gave examples.


But this was not the case with my engine..i actually LOST 10WHP and LOST 20Ftlbs

due to the fact i made it with 40mm runers instead of using the 50mm runners.. i still have 1 more manifold i have to try one day... :laugh:


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

redGTInj said:


> But this was not the case with my engine..i actually LOST 10WHP and LOST 20Ftlbs
> 
> due to the fact i made it with 40mm runers instead of using the 50mm runners.. i still have 1 more manifold i have to try one day... :laugh:


Sure, i was just giving an example to talk about the head flow but typically you lose torque with shorter runners, people try all sorts of things, etc to get around this but if you lose 20wtq then you should lose more than 10whp, unless you lose that torque below 5252rpm. 

Hey man, i don't have an all motor 16v but I still like to peak, I think i still have some parts around, let me know if you'd like a 40mm to play with


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

yea i hear ya... hers the infamous dyno sheet overlaying the two manifolds... its gotten a little beat up..was floatin around the garage for years

BASE= ported and polished 50mm 
176WHP & 147ft lbs

TEST= 40mm & small plenum short runner
166WHP & 126 ft lbs..

the car almost felt faster cause the torque curve with the short runner was very flat across the rpm range, but it never truley opened up and screamed like the other manifold...


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

anyways! back to the rabbit for now... had a chance to stop by and grab some more pieces for the bunnys motor... if you look close u can see the wheel from the red car 
here's a pic of my old motor, ended up taking 

SCCH lightened and balanced intermediate shaft
AUTOTECH lightweight intermediate shaft pulley
Redline Perofmrance lighweight alternator pulley


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

redGTInj said:


> yea i hear ya... hers the infamous dyno sheet overlaying the two manifolds... its gotten a little beat up..was floatin around the garage for years
> 
> BASE= ported and polished 50mm
> 176WHP & 147ft lbs
> ...


Good R&D :thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

killa said:


> Good R&D :thumbup:



thanx...gonna try and hit up teh dyno tommorow...for a BASE run with the bunny :thumbup:


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

redGTInj said:


> thanx...gonna try and hit up teh dyno tommorow...for a BASE run with the bunny :thumbup:



Specs? totally stock? What knock box?


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

specs are on the first page...the bunny runs motronic... have 3 different ecus... AMS, TT stock chip, TT chip for my cams


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

redGTInj said:


> specs are on the first page...the bunny runs motronic... have 3 different ecus... AMS, TT stock chip, TT chip for my cams


Nice, what are the specs on the TT street cams? Are those the ABF copies?

I used to love my 276's, advanced the cam gear 3 degrees and it was cool to drive on the street.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

yea ABF copies...


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## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

I like the bigger cams to.. but, it really seems like theyre on or off.. The idea of smaller cams that are used more throughout the rpm range is more appealing as I get older 

I just swapped my 80 scirocco to a 9a with cis-m, so, im really curious to see how this goes. I plan to dyno mine very soon also- My personal goal is 150 whp. 

Chris


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*UPDATE* 
due to teh bad weather yesterday i didnt get to hit up the dyno.. but i think im goin today after work :thumbup: 

i hear ya.... i still got my cylinder head that begs for huge cams, so i will go that route again... 

hows ur rocco running? 

whats ur setup like? 

im not lookin for any major numbers now, ill wait til i put on a TT race header for that..hahaha


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## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

I understand that- if you've got the setup for it, do it!! 

I've swapped quite a few to cis-e, but this is the first using cis-m. The engine has about 500 miles on it now, and it runs great! The swap went fairly well, and I really haven't had that many bugs to work out.. 

Here's a short vid of my car.. Not the best video, but, you get the idea. In the vid I had some larger cams in, but have since swapped them for the euro cams ( I think.. I've had this stuff sitting around for quite a few years) 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2uJiOTQUuI&sns=em


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

BAD NEWS fellas 

i shoulda turned around before i even got to teh shop...on teh way there the weighted shift rod form the old school "Missing linkz" shifter set have on teh car pulled through the slector lever on the trans..luckily i had tools in the back, and wa sable to put it back together on the side of the road with my buddy jav... 

finally get to the shop strap the car to teh dyno, do a pull, and at 5,000 rpm my A/F was 16.1! :banghead: 

this was with the DPR setting at 2.5ma, and TT chip!!! tried adjusting several times...did 4 pulls after the 4th pull i had enough and sooo did the bunny, it wouldnt turn on anymore NO power...im pretty sure the ignition switch went bad :thumbdown:


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Bummer!


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

i cant understand the fueling problem...even tried 2 different ecus!


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

I know how much you are committed to the CIS-e, but as there really is no easy way to know what is going on with the ECU, I would personally either go backwards to the CIS or way forward to a standalone like MS. Several years ago my brother and I did a 16V swap on the '80 Scirocco and kept it on the CIS and it made 122whp with stock manifolds and stock internals. The afr's were rock solid over the whole rev-band. I just think, the simpler the better. But, if you insist on getting complex, then doing it with a system that allows you to "see" what is going on and why is the only way to go. And with the CIS-e, you really have no good idea what is "going on". With MS, it is all transparent and easily tuned. Just a thought for you to consider.:beer:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

i competely agree...this is my first time using CIS motronic..my red car was KE-jet..and ive had several CIS basic setups...i didnt really want to go crazy with the rabbit, cause i wanted to keep it sort of period correct... 

as for not knowing..i agree motronic is not doin what "it's suppsoed to do" as for my othe rcar i have the multimeter conencted inline to teh dpr, and would just use my adjustable fuel enrichment module to keep adding fuel...when full throttle was engaged the pre detrmined value was at 36 milliamps... and would stay there with NO FLUCTATION ..the aoutech moduel only went to 25 milliamps! that wasnt enough fuel.. 

as for this setup even at full throttle there was flucation of teh dpr, and the numbers did not increase whats so ever..


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## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

I really wonder why its so lean. Something is definitely not right. If I could help you in any way, let me know. Since I just did my swap, its still kind of fresh on my mind 

If you could choose, what would the ideal AFR curve be?? 

Out of curiousity I decided to put my Wideband on mine today after I was finished with other things in my garage. At idle, it reads around 30 and part load while cruising is 14-14.5. When I am at full throttle, it goes down to around 13.2 then 12.9 all the way until redline. This is with the TT chip. 

Chris


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

WOW! that would be amazing!! do you by anychance have the DPR test harness? im very curious to see if when using motronic does the DPR get a fixed value from the "map" in the chip? and what milliamp value should it read..? the bentley states 14-16ma... with a chip i would assume around 22-25ma...i called TT about it 2 weeks ago, and they didnt have the info..and collin couldnt remember! 

i found in the 13's is perfect


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## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

I do have a test harness- an extra long one that I can route into the car at that. 

When I get a chance, I'll put it on, drive around and report back with the values. Like I said, I've got a bit of experience with CIS-E, but, this is also my first go-round with CIS-M, so my curiousity is up 

I wasn't very happy to see the 12.9 afr- I really feel that is a little rich for n/a. I guess these make the most power around 13.5 or so? 

Chris


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## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

I have some interesting news.. Today I fitted my test harness and drove my car around a bit. It sits somewhere around 3m/a at idle. While cruising part throttle, it drops to around 1.9-2.0. The most confusing thing is that it jumps to 2.25-2.5 at full throttleall the way until redline 

Like I said, I havent had it on a dyno, but, my AFR readings do indicate that it is getting enrichment at full throttle... And the car screams.. 

I thought that by doing this you might be helped, but, I guess it just makes things more confusing 

Please keep us posted- 

Chris


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

noo not at all that is excellent news!


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

wow! thanx alot! that helps out tremdously! 

this also makes sense why Motronic does not have the bogging problems that when using fuel enrichments on KE-jet cause.. 

like i said ive always felt the bunny hold back a bit around 5k even on the butt dyno, but when seein it on the dyno and watching the A/Fs and power/tq curves it was apparent that i knew i was feelin something... 

so i did an adjustemnt on the DPR and WOW! not the usual plate height setting using the 3mm allen...but the tiny allen screw benhind the DPR. after the intial adjustemnt i had to go back and re-set my idle mixture cause it was runnin richer..then afte rthe first drive the hesitation was GONE and i smacked the rev limiter in 2nd and 3rd! 

this adjustment "feels" like it did alot...im gonna try and go back to the dyno to verify, maybe this week.. or maybe one day after work my buddy could weld in a bung so i could throw on the wideband


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

redGTInj said:


> or maybe one day after work my buddy could weld in a bung so i could throw on the wideband


 This would be my first mod. And then go to http://14point7.com/ and purchase the "Spartan Lambda Sensor" and a display, or since it has a narrow band output, get it and a display and replace the factory sensor with this one. Win, Win.:beer:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

that looks like fun! do you own one? 

also doin the DPR adjustment absolutely made a huge difference..but soo far i still feel it hold back around 6k now... 

i have a brand new fuel pump, that i never used..i think im gonna go ahead and put it in...or perhaps check fuel pressure before and after changinng the fuel pump


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

redGTInj said:


> that looks like fun! do you own one?


 I have one of his older DIY JAW units, prolly at least 4 yrs old, and still going strong.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

saturday night...with some other mk1 owners:thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thursday night all cleaned up for the drive down...









another fellow mk1 driver and me


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I wish VW still made basic, simple, lightweight cars like this..


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> I wish VW still made basic, simple, lightweight cars like this..


I agree.:thumbup: My wife's '94 Golf GL would possibly fit that category. ABA, MT and manual windows and a 2 door. Lightweight (compared to most cars these days), simple and quite fun to drive. And getting better since I installed the header and removed the gutted CAT.

Back on topic, glad to see you making progress with the GTI.:thumbup: Decent power in a mkI chassis is always huge fun.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx! i honestly cant even imagine what my old motor would feel like in this car....that would be crazy..

i'm dyin to get the car back on the rollers....


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> I wish VW still made basic, simple, lightweight cars like this..


i hear ya on that..the way it is now, its a blast to drive cruisin up and down the strip at H20 was fun, takin off at the lights 

im contemplating switching the fuel dizzy to the pass side..so i could run teh FRANKENmanifold... i still got my "worked" head as well... that would be intresting....

i


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

workin on the car tommorow at work...gonna change the fuel pump, had a brand new one layin around since i had my rocco, and fuel filter... might as well for piece of mind...

ill post some pics :thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

BIG update!! had some time to work on the bunny since work is slow... picked up one of these bad boys









my buuddy jav picke dup a new welder and was excited to use it! added a second bung..


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

did some drivin around and some tuning, with the wideband...soo it was running PIG rich at idle.. 10.2 leaned it up a bunch to now its at about 13.6-13.9ish at idle fully warmed up..

WOT is now looking proper, drops to 11's and holds til redline at about mid 13's... its gonna be dyno time again! and the car hauls ass :thumbup:


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## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

Thats great news! I cant wait to hear the results.. Did you just lean it out by adjusting the flow plate?

Chris


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

IT IS! and ur help was greatly appreciated :thumbup:

well the reason it was PIG rich was becuase i did the adjsutment on the actual DPR, when tryin to figure out the lean problem... so i had to go back and turn my DPR screw back to where it was, and then FINE tune with the 3mm allen for pate height..

but yea, it screams!! 

still deciding on if im gonna hit the dyno or the track first... and then TT race header and exhaust will be ordered


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)




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## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

Chris Barnes said:


> I like the bigger cams to.. but, it really seems like theyre on or off.. The idea of smaller cams that are used more throughout the rpm range is more appealing as I get older
> 
> I just swapped my 80 scirocco to a 9a with cis-m, so, im really curious to see how this goes. I plan to dyno mine very soon also- My personal goal is 150 whp.
> 
> Chris


I dunno, we made more TQ across the whole rev range with the TT288s vs the TT276s and the stock ABF cams.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

TT 288's are goin in this car at some point


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

There's a 14.9 in there for sure with a good 60 foot.


- Josh


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx! means alot comin from you...im gonna shoot for it tonight :thumbup:


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Hell, I was on my phone before... didn't see the Island pic. 

Spent many a day there. Need to go back soon, if just to eat a burger and watch.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

shoulda went back...raceway park was closed...bunch of people were there pissed off hahaha.. atleast i work close to there


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

[email protected] is very nice. i agree with powerdubs on the 14.9....or better what trans are you running (close ratio or not)
did you ever 1/4 mile the mk2 with 177whp? if yes what did it do?


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

theres mid 14's the way it is now, i just know it...i need to hit the dyno as well.. its a NON close ratio disel trans... came with the car...BIG changes are ocmin this winter fo rthe spring and that trans is one of the first things to go..

i still have the red GTI..(181whp in the last setup) it was a highway killer... although i did get a chance to freshen up the cylinder head from the car to put in the rabbit..new guides and seals..along with some NEW cams, TT race header, and exhaust :thumbup:


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

redGTInj said:


> theres mid 14's the way it is now, i just know it...i need to hit the dyno as well.. its a NON close ratio disel trans... came with the car...BIG changes are ocmin this winter fo rthe spring and that trans is one of the first things to go..
> 
> i still have the red GTI..(181whp in the last setup) it was a highway killer... although i did get a chance to freshen up the cylinder head from the car to put in the rabbit..new guides and seals..along with some NEW cams, TT race header, and exhaust :thumbup:


very nice winter plans :thumbup::thumbup:
before you toss that diesel trans. take the 3.94 final out of it & put it in something with close ratio gears. with your new head & cams you will be into the 13's easy with that little rabbit....my fat mk3 did 15.2 @ 91mph on street tires

i will be watching your progress :beer::beer:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx!
yea i want the AVX 4.2 final.... with 4k gears... i have ACH trans in it currently think it'd be better with a 4.2?


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

redGTInj said:


> thanx!
> yea i want the AVX 4.2 final.... with 4k gears... i have ACH trans in it currently think it'd be better with a 4.2?


i have a 4k with a .71 5th gear. i think it is the best combo for a daily driven "1/4 pounder" but i often ponder the benefits of a 4.24 final. most n/a 16v guys seem to like the 3.94


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

We run a 4.24 with a 0.85 fifth gear. Fine on the street but definitely not good for highway cruising---but, ti has been done for 10hour trips even....


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

ive had other 16v's with 3.94's noticeable difference... but never a 4.2... on my last motor with "the beast" i was making peak WHP at 7,300 rmp


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5369298166_093b26e41b_b.jpg


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

THATS BEAUTIFUL!
stock ABF intake manifold? what TB?


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

Stock ABF manifold and TB.
288 TT cams with lightweight retainers --hydro lifters
ported head--stock valves
11:1 CR
TT race header 
2.5" exhaust -- no cats, no muffler
Cone filter on the intake
100 octane Sunoco unleaded
aluminum underdrive crank pulley 
Adjustable cam gear---forget the setting--This yielded significant improvement BTW and brought the curve down to a nice place for a safe 7300rpm rev limiter

All thanks to NGP Racing, Franz Diebold, and Techtonics Tuning.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

very nice! stock valves in the head?? also did TT make the outlet of the header to fit 2.5" of did u have to customize it? and how do u have it held together clamp or v-band?


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

redGTInj said:


> very nice! stock valves in the head?? also did TT make the outlet of the header to fit 2.5" of did u have to customize it? and how do u have it held together clamp or v-band?



Stock valves--yes

Fits 2.5"

Used a clamp settup. It is a rally car and that area is prone to lots of impacts. The V-bands reduce clearance and get borked pretty good.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx for the quick replies! 
11:1 ? whats ABF come with? 
i cant wait to see ya hit 200whp :thumbup:


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

redGTInj said:


> thanx for the quick replies!
> 11:1 ? whats ABF come with?
> i cant wait to see ya hit 200whp :thumbup:


10.5:1 I think

We put mufflers and a cat back on it... Now well down from there but plenty fun.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

checked out ur website awesome stuff :thumbup:
i was always intrested in doin a 2.5" but never got aorund to dynoing with one...i do see the loss of a few ft lbs compared to my best which was 159ft lbs. u squeezed more whp out of a way less worked setup tho.. i guess CIS was my biggest enemy..

when i get a chance..ill take pics of the cylinder head thats gonna go into the rabbit in the coming weeks.. it was the same one that i ran years ago, recently freshed up.. its slow at work, neways cause of SANDY :thumbdown:


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Work? What's that?

Haven't worked in over a week. Haven't had power, heat, water for a week now either. Freezing my ass off and could use a shower. 


- Josh


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> Work? What's that?
> 
> Haven't worked in over a week. Haven't had power, heat, water for a week now either. Freezing my ass off and could use a shower.
> - Josh


i hear ya man..same here i live in basking ridge, no power nothing and we have well water so none of that either with an electric pump.. 

and yea we had work starting wednesday!! of course where I work they didnt lose power at all..
a did get a car to work on! if u look close u can see "The Beast's" head on top of my box
sorry a lil blurry hahaha


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

supposed to be nice this weekend...im feeling a trip to island this sunday, word is they are open :thumbup:


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

http://islanddragway.com/index.php/general-information/2012-schedule



I have to do a BUNCH of stuff around the house, we are hosting Thanksgiving.

But next weekend, if my fil brings his Phaeton up, maybe I'll get him to line up next to mine and run em once for ****s and giggles.


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

redGTInj said:


> supposed to be nice this weekend...im feeling a trip to island this sunday, word is they are open :thumbup:


you have to go.....racing where i live ended in early oct. you guys are lucky to have an extra month of racing.
cool nov. air, go squeeze a 14 sec. run out of that rabbit before the snow flies. my son ran a [email protected] on street tires and [email protected] with slicks and a missed shift on a bad run. now he has to wait until next year to try for 93mph with traction to get a low 14 sec. run (90 jetta coupe with aba16v)


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> http://islanddragway.com/index.php/general-information/2012-schedule
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hahaha kep me posted on that :thumbup:


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

leon whalen said:


> you have to go.....racing where i live ended in early oct. you guys are lucky to have an extra month of racing.
> cool nov. air, go squeeze a 14 sec. run out of that rabbit before the snow flies. my son ran a [email protected] on street tires and [email protected] with slicks and a missed shift on a bad run. now he has to wait until next year to try for 93mph with traction to get a low 14 sec. run (90 jetta coupe with aba16v)


very cool stuff :thumbup: i brought the rabbit to the shop today, to give her a check over and oil change before tommorow...its supposed to be nice weathe rtommorow too like 55.. ill try and get some pics up


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

QuantumRallySport said:


> http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5369298166_093b26e41b_b.jpg


what is the dyno brand?


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

checkout NGPracing.com im sure they got info on the dyno services


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

redGTInj said:


> very cool stuff :thumbup: i brought the rabbit to the shop today, to give her a check over and oil change before tommorow...its supposed to be nice weathe rtommorow too like 55.. ill try and get some pics up


ended up NOT goin to the track, tryin to work out a few bugs with the rabbit...
anyone else use the crank pulley to set igntion timing?


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

redGTInj said:


> checkout NGPracing.com im sure they got info on the dyno services


doesnt say what brand of dyno


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

i wanna say i feel like its a dynojet


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> what is the dyno brand?



Here is the info from NGP



> Originally Posted by 8vRSR
> Yeah it's a stout little motor...always has been, from when it was imported and run stock and after the rebuild. Bone stock, with a free flowing exhaust and stock Bosch ECU, dirty paper air filter and no other modifications it made 141whp, which is knocking on stock 12v VR6 power.
> 
> The motor is built and tuned to run on 93 octane, but is usually run on 100 octane (RON+MON) for reliability and longevity. The dyno runs were on 100 octane...The engine was built by Justice Racing Engines, and tuned by Diebold Autosport. (both in Virginia, USA) - the parts though, the Wiseco pistons and Techtonics cams / valve springs, are pretty normal, not exotic parts.
> ...


----------



## pvw4ever (Nov 19, 2001)

redGTInj said:


> BIG update!! had some time to work on the bunny since work is slow... picked up one of these bad boys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Big Jav to the rescue!


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

another weekend goes by. any chance you got this thing down the 1/4 ?


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

nope never had a chance to go back... I've decided to go with standalone and ditch the CIS on this car...gonna make some real power by the spring :thumbup:

ill be keeping this thread updated with everything!

thanx for all the support


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

just wanna say happy holidays to any thread followers ... 2013 is gonna be a BIG year for the bunny..

i ended up doin a few things these past couple of weeks...i swapped out the fuel dizzy with anothe rone that came from a motronic swapped mk1..it has the correct airflow plate and motrnic dizzy along with the proper FPR.. so now the fuel fee dline isnt at a 90 degree angle as the previos owner had it :screwy:

and also was able to get a GIAC chip.. and WOW! what a BIG difference..

as of today..
DPR= 5ma
igniton= 6 degres
cam= +3 degrees w/ TT streets


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

so sad to hear about island dragway closing down....

on a good note happy new year to all


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

another update i neded up getting a TT chip cam file version... and what i found intresting is that with the GIAC chip and AMS at full throttle my wideband reads a very rock solid 12.9ish. as in the ecu is not making any adjustments..

now with the TT chip, at full throttle my wideband jumps around as if small adjustments are being made, as if the ecu is still recieveing o2 sensor signal..and readings will go up to 14ish higher up in the revs... ive tried 2 different computers, and back to back testing with other chips, that do not does this...:screwy:


----------



## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

Damn! I need to come over to your garage.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

your cars are amazing :thumbup:


----------



## CHETVW007 (Jul 25, 2001)

redGTInj said:


> IT IS! and ur help was greatly appreciated :thumbup:
> 
> well the reason it was PIG rich was becuase i did the adjsutment on the actual DPR, when tryin to figure out the lean problem... so i had to go back and turn my DPR screw back to where it was, and then FINE tune with the 3mm allen for pate height..
> 
> ...


 With your Multimeter hooked up to adjust your air plate, and your car warmed up and at idle, what average did you set your CO to?


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

hey!! good to see u again... you used to post alot on my red gti thread.. 

i have the wideband hooked up so right now i have it so its around 14-15ish at idle..


----------



## CHETVW007 (Jul 25, 2001)

redGTInj said:


> hey!! good to see u again... you used to post alot on my red gti thread..
> 
> i have the wideband hooked up so right now i have it so its around 14-15ish at idle..


 Yea man...with 3 boys, wifey and full time job....I don't get on here much these days. But my love for 16Vs and cars in general hasn't lessened...just been diverted. 

So 14-15 at idle...isn't that lean? I always thought stock settings for CIS-E Motronic was like 2.5 mA?


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

ahh i hear ya man.. 
i havent check with the multimeter yet.. im using my AEM wideband


----------



## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

redGTInj said:


> your cars are amazing :thumbup:


Thanks, I wish I knew how to build an engine like you.:thumbup:


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

I'd like to hear more about the franken manifold. I'm in the process of combining parts from a 40mm with the 50mm.

BTW - on the back of the 50mm should the back of one of the runners look a bit crushed?


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

the frankenstein was done by powerdubs liek 10 years ago..search his name theres alot of good info on it... and yes thats normal


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Great job sir:beer:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

startin to get the racing bug!!!!


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Uh-O!


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

got this in the mail.....:thumbup:


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

BIG update... decided to go a slight different direction with this build.. NO MORE CIS!! this car will be getting a megasquirt setup from kptuned.com of course! 

i'm gonna start tear down of the CIS stuff within the next week or so.. then let this engine finally breath! 

part 1. the "powerdubs" manifold 

 

part 2. the "beast" cylinder head 

 

part 3. the "TT RACE" header


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

AWWWW man... I am getting all teary eyed over here...


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

hahahahha!! i think ur manifold is gonna work exceptionally well with the killer head and race header...and of course EFI


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

It is made to breathe. 

What are the build specs? (TLDR) 

I am in Basking Ridge pretty much 5-6 days a week for work.


----------



## 16vCorey (May 26, 2004)

redGTInj said:


> part 2. the "beast" cylinder head


 Is that the head I built years ago?


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> What are the build specs? (TLDR)


 it's a stock 9a block, thats what ive been running for now. in the rabbit. the red car i had 83.5mm pistons in it..but everything was toast was that block. ill ride this stock block til it blows.. 

block- 
arp rod bolts 
SCCH lightened intermediate shaft 
Autotech int. shaft gear 
TT lightweight cam gear 

cylinder head- "same head from "the beast" 
excellent port and polish job by CWK  
TT .5 oversized intake valves 
TT .5 oversized exhaust valves 
TT ti-retainers 
Aitotech valve springs ( had a set of TT ones break one me!! never ran them again) 
Supertech valve seals 
TT 288 cams... most likely...


----------



## 16vCorey (May 26, 2004)

Nice! 

I think that might have been the last one I did, life just got too busy and I kind of dropped off the face of the earth. I just did some searching and it looks like you've made some serious power with that thing! Congrats! And with CIS-E no less. Thats's super bad ass.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

181 to the wheels to be exact on CIS-E 

this time goin for more


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

SCCH lightened and balanced shaft w/ autotech gear. these are from the beast and will be going in this motor


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

more parts have been showing up! ill get some pics.. also spent last weekend on the BMX went down to richmond VA for an FBM jam..it was aweosme.. saw several caddies while down there too :thumbup: 

more goodies! 

-BBM fuel rail w/ accesories. (thanx classifieds) 
 

-BFI motormount kit


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

nothing too much goin on lately...just collecting some parts.. ive been drivin the bunny as it is now..i want to make it back to the dyno once mor ethe way it is...hopefully ill begin teardown in the next couple weeks, and ill have a ton of pics.. 

also still deciding what cams to run...im leaning towards the TT 288's


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

redGTInj said:


> nothing too much goin on lately...just collecting some parts.. ive been drivin the bunny as it is now..i want to make it back to the dyno once mor ethe way it is...hopefully ill begin teardown in the next couple weeks, and ill have a ton of pics..
> 
> also still deciding what cams to run...im leaning towards the TT 288's


The TT 288s seem to work great for us. Relatively smooth idle, great power. Even better midrange torque than the 276s they replaced....


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

very nice! i ran the cat 283/279 which had 11.4mm lift. i really want to utilize the "powerdubs" manifold, with a ported passat TB w/ tps..but also am intreste din using the complete ABF intake fuel rail and injectors... id be nice to get a comparison between the two...


----------



## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

redGTInj said:


> very nice! i ran the cat 283/279 which had 11.4mm lift. i really want to utilize the "powerdubs" manifold, with a ported passat TB w/ tps..but also am intreste din using the complete ABF intake fuel rail and injectors... id be nice to get a comparison between the two...


I have a spare intake manifold (ABF) that you could test if you need one. Can't remember but I think it has a fuel rail attached... Maybe even injectors.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

QuantumRallySport said:


> I have a spare intake manifold (ABF) that you could test if you need one. Can't remember but I think it has a fuel rail attached... Maybe even injectors.


thanx, that would be awesome...and of course i'd post up numbers to compare both setups... it would be perfect if it had the rail and injectors :thumbup:


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

If the ABF beats my manifold, I'll buy the beer.

If it doesn't, I like Yuengling Chesterfield.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> If the ABF beats my manifold, I'll buy the beer.
> 
> If it doesn't, I like Yuengling Chesterfield.


hahahhaha thanx for the offer.. i just got back form the JUDGE reunion show. and yes im straightedge since the day i was born.. soo make it root beer :thumbup:


----------



## gozu (May 29, 2007)

redGTInj said:


> hahahhaha thanx for the offer.. i just got back form the JUDGE reunion show. and yes im straightedge since the day i was born.. soo make it root beer :thumbup:


"No more whites, no more blacks
no more barriers, no more traps
There will be quiet after the storm"

Diggin your build as well


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

awesome!


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

it's hot today!! i was finally was able to start on this project.. will be uploading pics frequently. 

as it sits now-
9a 2.0 bottom end
1.8 PL head w/ TT sreet cams(sold)
scirocco euro 50mm intake (for sale!)
motronic CIS-E with AMS chip(for sale)
stock exhaust manifold and downpipe, crappy exhaust

will be-
9a bottom end w/ some small bells and whistles(all ready have)
2.0 head from "the beast" all oversized valves, T-iretainers, springs, yada yada (all ready have)
TT 288 cams(on order)
TT race header & exhaust(all ready have)
"powerdubs" franken intake manifold(all ready have)
KPtuned megasquirt package(on order)
and lots of extra goodies

anyways just started on the basic stuff, removed the CIS-E fuel dizzy and associated lines, along with the motronic wiring harness from the engine bay.. its too hot now..ill post pics soon


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

been working on the car finally..work has slowed down a bit... soo heres a little timeline of what's been goin on..

bunny in its daily driven form from a few weeks ago.. before the RAIN!


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

In case you didn't hear, Island Dragway is opening back up on Friday July 5th under new management.

We are planning on going if the weather holds out.

www.IslandDragway.com


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> In case you didn't hear, Island Dragway is opening back up on Friday July 5th under new management.
> 
> We are planning on going if the weather holds out.
> 
> www.IslandDragway.com


 v


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

after the motor and trans were out, my good buddy Jav hooked me up and installed the BFi mounts in.. already had a TT poly up front, got a poly trans one comin soon...


installed and painted :thumbup:


----------



## pvw4ever (Nov 19, 2001)

Looking good!


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx :thumbup:
got somethin in the mail today

thanks to Scott at USRT


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Sitting in line at the dragstrip. Are you here?


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

damn! how was it? just like u remember?


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Probably the busiest I have ever seen it from the number of spectators perspective. Packed!

Mostly a bunch of common street cars, not much interesting as far as that went. Sundays are always the day to go to see the fast cars.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

im happy its back up and running...can't wait to bring the rabbit there.. we'll defentely have to meet up and have a root beer :thumbup:


----------



## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

I will be watching this and hoping I will be able to see it one day.:thumbup:


----------



## 02vwgolf (Oct 6, 2009)

Just found this build... love it! Can't wait to see how much power she makes now that you finally ditched the CIS :thumbup:

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

02vwgolf said:


> Just found this build... love it! Can't wait to see how much power she makes now that you finally ditched the CIS :thumbup:


thanx :thumbup: i


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

still waaaaay too hot to do much of anything.... been working on a few little things.. been port matching the upper and lower intake manifolds and gasket matching them as well.. some more engine bay painting..
I did get another goodie in the mail.. thanx to Jeff at TT :thumbup:


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

since the weather cooled down a bit, i was finally in the mood to load it up in the truck and bring it to work and set it up on the stand and start inspection. The car ran like a top, at this point i keep asking " why am I doing this again?" 
P.S.
YES the 1.8 16v head is for sale without cams, sold those already..


----------



## CHETVW007 (Jul 25, 2001)

redGTInj said:


> wow! thanx alot! that helps out tremdously!
> 
> this also makes sense why Motronic does not have the bogging problems that when using fuel enrichments on KE-jet cause..
> 
> ...


Remind me again about "adjusting" the DPR screw setting?
How is this done, how many turns, which direction?


----------



## CHETVW007 (Jul 25, 2001)

And let me know if you still have the cat 283/272 cams.
I might want to try those in my car. Currently using the Cat 266/262 set at +4 with my Autotech cam gear.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

its been awhile i forget!

i think i only have the intake cam, ill check next time i go to storage


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

bump for beast jr. v2


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*THE WHITE RABBIT IN THIS THREAD WAS SOLD IN 2013*

*THIS IS BEAST JR. V2*

however, i found myself having the need to fulfill my urges for another mk1 16v. and that's when i picked up this!!! I decided to keep this thread going as there was some good info and intrest in this thread already. i have been working on this car for several months now, and have lots of pics that i will be sharing on here. and i'll make a list of mods and what it has and ill post it here, and on a new post on this thread.

thanx to anyone that has stopped by this thread. enjoy!

anyways heres a pic from the day i picked up the rabbit. engine ran, but was un-driveable...i couldnt wait to get home and get started.


and here it is in the garage


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

Basic specs:

CIS KE jetronic located on pass. side w/ newly installed TT fuel enrichment module 
2.0 9a 16v block
2.0 head P&P
4K rabbit trans
eurospec 268/272 cams w/ adjustable inner cam gears
Powerdubs "frankenamnifold"newly installed
ABD big bore intake pipe
Autotech lightweight IM gear
ABF serp belt setup w/ lightweight crank,newly installed lightweight WP,alt pullies
4-2-1 header no cat w/ welded flex joint & borla muffler


so a few months ago i started on this. the typical dead battery, hard start stumbling running only stays on with foot on the gas. 
just by doing a quick look over the engine bay i knew id be
-checking over the entire wiring harness
-re-looming & rerouting wiring
-incorrect throttle body linkage, causing idle switch not being activated.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

heres a pic from a few months ago when i was getting it road worthy. re-doing wiring.cleaning up the bay --note--stock intake manifold still installed in these pics


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

when i bought this i was told there was "headwork" we've all heard that before, but i was actually please when i took the manifold off. clean ported and polished ports :thumbup:


heres a pic of the stock manifold vs "frankenmanifold" finally this manifold is getting a chance to shine! calling powerdubs!...


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

work progress pic


as good as it gets
[/URL

washed & wheels on
[URL=http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/redgtinj/media/rabbit%2016v/B89030A8-5FF9-41C3-A320-FB185FF3F9E4.jpg.html]


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

been driving and tuning the rabbit whenever i have time.. heres a pic from few weeks ago at work


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

how it sits today..


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

That is a damn pretty car. Good job. I would love to take it for a spin.

How does she run? Time for some videos. :thumbup::beer:


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

drove her around for a bit today, i was gonna go to island but i got a txt saying racing is cancelled for tommorow. shes running good i set the dpr, and ignition timing to my liking.
i got alot of goodies left to put in, including the "worked" head from the beast, TT race header, & exhaust, velocity ECU, & TB


----------



## 16ValveInside (Nov 20, 2004)

that car cleaned up well, looks great!
sticking with CIS or, are you going with megasquirt


----------



## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

love your commitment to the 16v technology.

I see you work at or what looks like a vw dealership?

I would love to see the face of not your regular customer at the dealership when they see this mk1 inside the shop shinning next to the latest model year cars in for service.

which one do you think they would pick if given the chance to trade the new car in ?...


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

16ValveInside said:


> that car cleaned up well, looks great!
> sticking with CIS or, are you going with megasquirt


hey good to hear from ya. i checked out ur thread not too long ago too! thanx means alot.
for now i am sticking with CIS, im using the same tricks i had on my mk2.. it feels great and pulls super hard! ill try to get some vids of it running today


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

134hpvw said:


> love your commitment to the 16v technology.
> 
> I see you work at or what looks like a vw dealership?
> 
> ...


hahaha thanx! its love/hate for me :laugh: 
I'm and AUDI tech at a dealer in northern NJ. funny u say that cause almost all the sales people came out old and young talking about the car. i told my service manager next time
a customer has a complaint about a rattle ill take them for a ride in it.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

many said it couldnt be done, raising the rev limiter on CIS-E.
i took this pic today of my Velocity Ke-jetronic ECU. 
this is where the magic happens. sperate circuit board with an adjustable pot to set the rev limiter.
i had this on my MK2 16v set at 8,300rpm, on a fully built motor. this will be going into the bunny very soon.


----------



## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

a different engine management; but; is there a similar product for cis-e motronic? interested in one for my Passat soon to be built.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

134hpvw said:


> a different engine management; but; is there a similar product for cis-e motronic? interested in one for my Passat soon to be built.


theres a ton of chips available for motronic. TT offers a few


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## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

I like this idea of variable settings for the rev limiter. I have a chipped ecm I traded for years ago. it has a british name chip in it. superchips I think is called. 

http://www.superchips.co.uk/search?make=38&fueltype=1&model=163&variant=1568


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

yep theyve been around awhile. they used to modify these older ECU's overseas supposedly


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

i forget how to post video... :thumbdown:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

fixed!


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## barspinsteve (Jun 24, 2006)

i love this build!! really makes me want another 16v car.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanx man haha it was ur idea to start another thread haha!! ill post some pics from the track later today


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## barspinsteve (Jun 24, 2006)

redGTInj said:


> thanx man haha it was ur idea to start another thread haha!! ill post some pics from the track later today


Hell yea!

Not sure if I missed it but is this on efi now or still Cis witchcraft


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

CIS witchcraft. for now. although i do have a full KPtuned. megasquirt setup sitting in my toolbox


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

update:
ended up going to the track on sunday for the first time. did 3 runs. 14.6 @ 94mph on street tires. & 8v exhaust haha
just hitting that mph is a good sign of things to come! 
pics


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

so finally getting around to getting some parts together to start the winter time teardown/upgrades. 
i wouldve started already but these 50+ degree days just keep me driving the rabbit instead. 
current exhaust setup that came with the car is a raceland with what appears to be a 2" 8v non mandrel bent piping to a borla muffler :screwy:

anyways heres whats going in...:laugh:

TT RACE header w/flex joint & 2 bungs for wideband, and TT mk1 16v exhaust. looking for a flowmaster muffler since TT stopped carrying them. theyre my fav


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

at the same time ill be putting my fully "worked" head on too.

sneak peek of the intake ports :laugh:

TT BIG valve kit, supertech springs, TT ti retainers, hi flow guides, HD valve stem seals


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

so i had a chance to bring my car to work on saturday...preparing myself for the work thats gonna go down on the rabbit soon.

anyways the previous owner had a shop whip up an exhaust and no i REALLY cant wait to get this TT stuff on there..

NOT even 2" exhaust piping used :thumbdown: haha. i can only imagine the chokehold this exhaust is putting on this motor up top. :screwy:


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## racingti (Jul 10, 2003)

Your fans anxiously await. Any progress?

It will be a sad day when you switch from CIS to MS. Your CIS tuning skills has proved the ignorant and the haters wrong. 

Thx for the proof of the CIS tune-ability. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

racingti said:


> Your fans anxiously await. Any progress?
> 
> It will be a sad day when you switch from CIS to MS. Your CIS tuning skills has proved the ignorant and the haters wrong.
> 
> ...


hahahaha! thanks! that means alot to me... 

as for updates finally got around to pulling the head off. it ran good and will be upfor sale, its got a port and polish job, and some really sick cams!
i wasnt able to identify the brand of the cams they appear to be 268's with adjustable timing gears. NOT KENT GEARS. if anyone ahs any info let me know.
the cams will also be for sale as my "worked" head will require bigger cams


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## BFDeihl (May 29, 2000)

Great thread! Reminds me of the days when the 16V forum was one of the busiest on Vortex.

Thanks for the motivation to get my own project back on track!


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

BFDeihl said:


> Great thread! Reminds me of the days when the 16V forum was one of the busiest on Vortex.
> 
> Thanks for the motivation to get my own project back on track!


:thumbup::thumbup: i emailed ya back let me know whatcha think?


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## racingti (Jul 10, 2003)

I haven't heard you mention why you sold your White Rabbit, but it was Motronics. And your new Green Rabbit 16v is CIS-E.

I am familiar with both systems, ie you can chip the Motronic ECU, fuel enrichment the CIS-E, etc, etc

But being that you have tuned both and did it in the same body style Mk1 to the point of 14 second cars, knocking on 13's. 

I am interested in your synopsis of Motronics vs CIS-E tunability? You did sell the Motronic Rabbit while you have a MS system in waiting but never installed. Now back to rocking the CIS-E. Opinions, comments?


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

CIS-E is absolutely better to tune and make HP hands down. i was never and still not a fan of CIS motronic. theres a dyno sheet showing my CIS-E mk2 makin 177WHP. at 7,600. lots of little tricks and whatknot and built motor. but daily driven.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

UPDATE:

started gathering some parts for the big valve head swap.. got some new coolant flanges for the head, ABA head gasket, new plugs....

got a new set of TT 268/276 sams as well

also picked up another europsort intake box.. its gonna need some modification its too tall for mk1's but I have a vision of taking the headlight out when going to the track
and maybe using like a square air duct to feed into this. idk that's for later..

goodies


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## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

so you are buying all the old cool stuff?:laugh:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

yep, ive had 3 of these! over the years.....


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*update*

more goodies showing up...:thumbup:

TT268/276 camset, and gear.. figured id start small, and go up from there..


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

134hpvw said:


> so you are buying all the old cool stuff?:laugh:





Speaking of old cool stuff- try to find the valve cover I made.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> Speaking of old cool stuff- try to find the valve cover I made.


Josh I already found ur Franken manifold!! and now this!! hahaha. besides the manifold would cover the cool looking valver cover.. if I go ITB's ill begin the quest hahah :thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

update:

been working on the car a decent amount, pulled the head off and installed the cams in the killer head. haven't put the head on the block yet..

also with the head off, I installed a USRT shift kit, and SCCH shifter.. took some time, but feels great.

anyways pics say more than words...


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

monday bump


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*Update:*

so i got around to putting the killer head on this weekend, and bolt up the TT race header


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## rodperformance (Oct 9, 2010)

*16v power*

Hi mate! Truly amazing build saving for future reference!!Roderick


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

rodperformance said:


> Hi mate! Truly amazing build saving for future reference!!Roderick


thanks :thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*some more pics...*

under car shot of the TT race header w/flexjoint with stock O2 and AEM wideband installed. 

under car shot of the collector, and USRT linkage and all new shift bushings..


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

:thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

*update:*

took off the stock oil pan to install this sweet TT baffled/trap door oil pan.

replaced old and kinked clutch cable


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I hear rumor this thing runs... 

video??


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

PowerDubs said:


> I hear rumor this thing runs...
> 
> video??


it "did" run. I was able to get it running a few times, and it wouldn't idle on its own.. id have top hold the throlttle open at like 2k. as soon as id let off, it would die. checked mechanical timing, cam timing, ignition, fuel spark all the basics.. did a compression test and found wacky numbers.. 90, 70, 60, 90. they head is the same head ive run for years and years, all freshened up. TT 268/276 cams..

I haven't had a chance to do a leakdown test.. I re-used old lifters form the other head.. im wondering if theyre not operating correctly. cause I do not believe any timing was off..

:thumbdown:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

did a leakdown test with both cmshafts removed to ensure all valves were "closed" and results were

ALL cylinders leaking air thru exhaust side. took header off and can feel substantial amount of air coming directly out of the ports 

:thumbdown:


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Easy fix-


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

ugghhh, just had this head freshened up... new guides, new seals, valve job.. :thumbdown:


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Bring it back.

Next time- if it ain't broke...


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

yea im taking the head off tonight.. I sent you a Vid Josh.. and come on!! don't give me that! I was just gonna give it some more pep...


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## racingti (Jul 10, 2003)

What are you thinking it is? 

Sounds like possible bent exhaust valves because every cylinder or exhaust cam timing off? 

Valve seats? The old lifters? 

I'll be interested to hear what it was and hear its running again. The Beast Jr. will live again!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

https://vimeo.com/130282278

https://vimeo.com/130282342


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

racingti said:


> What are you thinking it is?
> 
> Sounds like possible bent exhaust valves because every cylinder or exhaust cam timing off?
> 
> ...



Here's video of the head thanks to Josh for hosting them..

I don't know what's wrong. I had new TT hi-flow guides, & seals done. and valve job. that was 2 years ago. the head sat wrapped up untouched til I put in on recently. 

I don't think the exhaust valves would bend. its not common from what I can recall.. idk..


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

trying to find some free time, to make a trip back to the machine shop ASAP :thumbdown:


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I would have called the shop the same day! The problem is, 2 years later they aren't going to cope to anything. Your best bet (after a quick phone call) is just to buy some lapping compound and knock it out yourself.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

yea but the head was never used til now..and my good friend just had his 16v head there and had bottom end built. its down the street from the Audi dealer i previously worked at for 6 years and used this place often. 

this heads been though ALOT in the last 10 years...i just hope the seats are in good shape


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## racingti (Jul 10, 2003)

Any news on the head and the car's status? Summer is upon us, your fans are ready to see some 1/4 mile times for this Green Beast!! (namely me) 

Keep fighting the good fight, George!! Perfecting the tricks of the CIS-E 16v. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

hahahh thanks racingti! 
I picked the head back up from the shop. first thing I did was fill the ports with water and all valves were sealed.. everything looks to be good now 
ended up getting some spare time got time and got the head back on the car. installed the cams, timed them and the motor.
basically just gotta bolt up the header and install the intake manifold, CIS fuel stuff and wiring harness, and start it up. might work on it today after work..
heres some pics :thumbup:


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

put it back together and still not running right.. 

strange problem.. when I do a compression test when the engine is cold numbers are good 155 all 4.. when the car starts it'll run with me holding the throttle open, if not it dies.
ALOT of whitish smoke from the tailpipe. it'll run for like 3 mins. ill do another compression test and now all lowat like 70-90psi :banghead:

ARP head studs, new head gasket, idk I don't think its rings because compression is good when cold. and smoke is not bluish. headgasket upside down?? seems weird


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## rodperformance (Oct 9, 2010)

*rings*

Have you done a wet compression test?
First you should have 190-210 psi cold,if your test shows less on a warm engine it could be second compression rings,just thinking out loud!! Hope you find the cause!!later mate! Roderick.or cam phasing since its on all cilynder,adjustable cam gear out of sequence could be!,some sugestions light sound stupid some not,just trying to help brother!!


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

rodperformance said:


> Have you done a wet compression test?
> First you should have 190-210 psi cold,if your test shows less on a warm engine it could be second compression rings,just thinking out loud!! Hope you find the cause!!later mate! Roderick.or cam phasing since its on all cilynder,adjustable cam gear out of sequence could be!,some sugestions light sound stupid some not,just trying to help brother!!


thanks for reply.. 190-210 seems high especially for a cold engine. warming up should help seal things.. but seem like it makes whatever is leaking worse...
the smoking is bad too


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

teardown begins shortly...


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

Just dropping in to say how happy I am to see that some of you "oldschool" power making, motivated N/a guys are still around. I'll be getting back into my 8V ITB coupe again here shortly...

:thumbup:

Hope you get to the bottom of whatever your problem seems to be.


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## racingti (Jul 10, 2003)

You get "The Beast Jr" running? Get it going man and beat last years 14.6 at Island Dragway!! 

What's up man? Any word on what happened? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

thanks for the vote of confidence and interest in this thread! been really busy with doing house work, and cleaning up the property and stuff.. as for the car I decided to pull the motor and trans out completely, swap the bottom end with another 9a, that I've had for awhile.. and know the history of. and freshen everything up... from clutch, flywheel, and going back to my other port and polished head.. get the car running and then really dig in to the other block and head and see what was going on.. 

i'll post of pics of what's been going on in general, later today :thumbup:


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## 78srx440 (Dec 16, 2008)

So, where are those pics? 

Following this thread intently! Keep up the work!

I will be right behind you with my 16v build this winter.


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## starksan (Mar 30, 2013)

When you installed rings, you staggered the top and lower compression rings so that end gaps were opposite of each other? End gap specs? Ring ends square? 
Cam timing could also through off your compression numbers, perhaps your adjustable timing gear came loose after your first compression test and fully retarded cams? Possibly sheared the keyway on cam, I've have a motor that done that.
Could even be bad valve guide install. Also, did you torque head steads to VW specs, or ARP specs?

Get some prussian blue and check seat area on the face of valves to seats.


Did a complete rebuild on an ABA/PG last year and my average between all cylinders was 192 after engine break in. My 160k mile PL makes 155 across the board, so 140 is definitely too low on fresh rebuild.


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

I'm Back but with a new name :thumbdown:

anyways the rabbit is running good.. ended up swapping another long block. with the original ported head.. using the TT 268/276 cams.. and its running quick!

pics to follow


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## 16ValveInside (Nov 20, 2004)

post em up:thumbup:

still working on mine, working on plumbing vacuum, and breather


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

Wow finally figured out I can post from my phone. 
Since it hasn't been working from my laptop..
so There's some updates for sure.. Including dyno and track times!
will post pics soon I promise!


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## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

Good to see the old school 16v die hards still going strong. 

On a separate note, me too can not post from my desk top. But the cel phone is good for it. :sly:


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

sweet vortex is working again on my work computer!!
heres some pics from the last 2 weeks :thumbup:


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)




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## rodperformance (Oct 9, 2010)

*Good to hear*

Im glad you got back in the game!!looking for those numbers mate,also i love the color of your gti!! Its a bruce banner thing.


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

I've been working on and driving the crap out of this car.... after the cylinder head fiasco on the SUPER built head :thumbdown:
I ended up putting another stock 9a 2.0 block I had laying around. 
also putting the cylinder head the car came with the car nothing fancy at all.. and Im quite happy with the results soo far for a stock motor with boltons!
and honestly just happy to be driving this thing again
drove in with 143WHP after my overbore throttle body broke :thumbdown: and some fueling and ignition tweaking
drove out wit *152WHP*


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

Dropped the trans, currently looking for a peloquin LSD


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

Dude, looks like you need another 700-1000rpm to see what happening on top! Totally on the climb still. :thumbup:


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

g60vw said:


> Dude, looks like you need another 700-1000rpm to see what happening on top! Totally on the climb still. :thumbup:


I know! its a long story, but in the car its revving til 8k, but "SOMETHING" is happening at 6800. its KEjet tronic, the car pulls past there, but there is a HUGE power loss. not so noticeable in the car either..its weird. I can get into more detail about..im trying to figure it out still


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

bump


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

good news. figured out, the 6800 power loss problem... will be heading to the dyno again real soon... and see what the frankenmanifold and cams do UP TOP


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## racingti (Jul 10, 2003)

Interested to know, what was causing the power loss? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

knock sensor box.


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

went to the dyno couple weeks ago..have to upload chart.


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

99whp?


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

hahaha! still CIS-e 168to the wheels at 7,000rpm and 133ft lbs tq


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

Nice I didn't mess with CIS-E much back when I had a CIS-E car, 168whp is pretty impressive. How are the AFRs?
Also any interest in some catcams 1215s? I just pulled a set out of my car, not even broken in yet.(They don't play well with my ABA pistons)


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## 16ValveInside (Nov 20, 2004)

awesome, that is impressive.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

:thumbup::thumbup::beer::beer::wave::wave:


Good job. Now tell them to open your road back up. Detours suck.


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

hahahahaha! yea theyre finally fixing that mess at the bottom


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Any progress?


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

Still trying to get a mega squirt harness built. I also have VWMS fuel dizzy


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## racingti (Jul 10, 2003)

The 16v Lives!!! Welcome back to the forum.


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## redGTInjII (Aug 2, 2016)

racingti said:


> The 16v Lives!!! Welcome back to the forum.


Hahahs thanks. It’s been running good. I’ll get some pics up here :thumbup:


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