# Considering Buying a TTS and Modifying the Hell out of it



## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

Hello. I’m a newbie here but have experience in high HP cars. I’m considering buying a 2011 or 2012 Audi TTS with DSG as my daily driver and I have some questions that you guys may help me with.

Is there any difference between the production years 2011 vs 2012?

I’m planning to build the engine with forged internals. Is it possible to oversize the bore and increase the displacement to 2.2 L in these engines? Has it been done before? How strong is the block? Is it suitable for dry sleeve application?

My goal is to have 600-650 HP on pump gas and have a reliable AWD DSG car as daily driver. What are your setup recommendations?

Does BSH make a V-Band tubular manifold for TTS? How is the spool on GTX3076R with Tial 0.60 A/R turbine?

What can be done to the DSG to hold all the power? How good are the Sidewinder Stage 3 Clutch Package or SSP DSG Titan Series Stage 5 Ultimate Track Package? How streetable are they? Can the Haldex control unit be modified to send more power to the rears? How about Quaife limited slip differentials for the front and the rear?

Based on my test drive, there is a lot of understeer in the TTS. How do you guys eliminate this? Does KW make a dynamic damping coilover kit for TTS? Do thicker and stiffer sway bars on the front and rear help? How harsh is the ride with these mods? What is the widest tire you can fit on a TTS? Will 265/35-19 or 275/30-19 all around fit with some wider fenders and custom offset wheels?

Finally is there aggressive body kits that fit well the TTS body lines or is TTRS front and rear fascia upgrade is the only feasible option.

I know these are a lot of questions but all positive inputs and technical answers will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

understeer can mostly be dialed out with proper suspension geometry set up and a rear sway bar. 

Raeder in Germany makes some body panels that could be considered aggressive (in comparison to the OE)... from their participation with the GT4 car. Not cheap parts though.


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## ZPrime (Mar 7, 2006)

It's the same power train as the Golf R. Look at that for motor and Haldex questions. Look at MkV R32 for DSG questions. A United Motorsport DSG tune should be able to hold nearly 600 ft lbs on stock clutches, possibly more. 


- [thumbed from a phone] -


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

How much HP/TQ does the engine hold with stock internals? Has anybody tried overboring the engine while forging the internals and achieving 2.1 or 2.2 L displacement?


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## Vegas-RoadsTTer (Mar 17, 2013)

*Look at the FAQ above for differrences in MY*

The only identified change between 2011 and 2012 is "sport mode also adjusts throttle response" which sounds like it is important to you.

Looks to me like the 2014 MY has the most bang for the buck for a TTS. Lots of options were made standard equipment.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't choose the TTS for an all out build. The turbo lag is noticeable with a Stage 3 turbo and will require a built motor eventually, the DSG clutches will need replacing, and the understeer can be only be minimized but not eliminated with suspension setup, Haldex race controller, and a Peloquin diff. That's around $30K plus the car. The sweet spot is Stage 2+ on this platform. 997 turbo is the way to go if you can sacrifice some storage space. Or GTR for a bit more.






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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

arm1tage said:


> The sweet spot is Stage 2+ on this platform. 997 turbo is the way to go if you can sacrifice some storage space. Or GTR for a bit more.




Sound advice.


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

BUT IE is developing a twin scroll stage 3 which should eliminate the turbo lag. HOWEVER, that doesnt solve the slipping clutches as you said. But a built DSG would be pretty killer.


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## Ries (Sep 18, 2014)

For what its worth...

My stage 3 TTS is quite fun as a daily driver. Not sure what it has officially for power, but I am told ~450hp on pump gas. Although at the price point I got into it for, it was worth it. You couldn't build the car for what I have into it. However if I were seeking your targeted power level I'm not sure I would start with a TTS. It's just not cost effective. There are far better cars to start with to reach that goal.

As for some general comments...

While a twin scroll turbo would be nice to eliminate turbo lag I almost don't mind it because it allows me to get 24-26mpg when driving easy. The APR DSG components seem to be holding up to the power just fine. However the APR DSG tune could be better, but I may be anal as I tune software as part of my job. 

When in Drive some of the shift points could be tweaked as upshifts and downshifts don't always occur when they should. Although the average driver may not notice. I have only recently started using manual mode as I just installed paddle extensions. First impressions are OK, but I also would like to see some tweaks. Sport seems OK, but I haven't spent a lot of time in it as of yet either. This is my first summer with the car.


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## GMPCompetitionTT (Dec 7, 2014)

Ries said:


> For what its worth...
> 
> My stage 3 TTS is quite fun as a daily driver. Not sure what it has officially for power, but I am told ~450hp on pump gas. Although at the price point I got into it for, it was worth it. You couldn't build the car for what I have into it. However if I were seeking your targeted power level I'm not sure I would start with a TTS. It's just not cost effective. There are far better cars to start with to reach that goal.
> 
> ...


I have to use manual mode all the time. The Drive shift points on the APR tune are awful and it just doesnt want to shift unless you get to 2500 sometimes no matter the throttle position. 

Thank god I am not the only one.

But for what its worth I have always driven it in manual since I bought it. But when the fiancé wants to hold hands I have to put it in drive haha.

The stage 3 sounds like a beast but I think you hit the nail on the head. Cost for what you get is what you need to look at.


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## qtroCUB (Mar 22, 2005)

Ries said:


> The APR DSG components seem to be holding up to the power just fine. However the APR DSG tune could be better, but I may be anal as I tune software as part of my job.


Make sure you have the latest DSG software. I had mine upgraded a couple weeks ago. The shift points are (marginally) better than they were on the previous version. Can call APR and see if there is one available to you. I typically drive in manual mode when going around town. 

Side note: Are you doing MSP cars and coffee next weekend?


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

mjosco said:


> TT King, that name sounds like some Arizona guys I used to hang around with that had some monster MKIV Supras.
> 
> I think you would be treading fresh waters with that level of build on a TTS. A better platform would be to import a Euro TT-RS with the DSG option; we can't get that here. There are several 650hp TT-RS builds out there and a larger parts network for building bigger power for the 2.5l motors.
> 
> ...


I'm a TT Viper guy but not from the US, from Turkey. We can't get TTRS here either so that's not an option.

I'm thinking I can get around 600 HP with a fully built, sleeved and overbored 2.1-2.2L engine using a GTX3076R. I don't know if there is anybody out there who has overbored dry sleeved the TTS engine to 2.2L. I bet I can also rev that thing to 7500 rpm easy with upgraded valvetrain, ported heads, custom intake, etc. Injectors are not a problem. Actually many high HP cars work better with a second set of injectors. 

Regarding the DSG, I bet I can increase the valve pressure with a good tune and change the clutches to sidewinder to work flawlessly. I don't know how much the stock differentials, haldex coupling and half shafts will hold on hard launches with that much HP. There is only 1 way to find out.

600 HP TTS as a daily driver will be a lot of fun. I have the path figured out in my head, just need to locate a clean TTS. 90% of the TTS here wrecked or repaired after serious damages. I have my eyes on a 2013 TTS now. We'll see how that goes.


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

Does BSH make a V-band tubular manifold for the TTS? That would save a lot of custom fabrication work.


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## Ries (Sep 18, 2014)

qtroCUB said:


> Make sure you have the latest DSG software. I had mine upgraded a couple weeks ago. The shift points are (marginally) better than they were on the previous version. Can call APR and see if there is one available to you. I typically drive in manual mode when going around town.
> 
> Side note: Are you doing MSP cars and coffee next weekend?



Good to know... but I'm not a fan of paying a decent amount for a reflash, which requires them to have my car for a few hours during working hours M-F (the two places I would trust with my car are quite a ways away). Especially if your saying it's only a marginal improvement.

As for C&C, oh snap I didn't realize that was already upon us. I'm definitely down for heading out there.


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

I'm very close to buying a 2011 TTS. Is the body exactly the same with TTRS except for Front fascia and Rear bumper? If I order TTRS front and rear bumper from the dealer, would it perfectly fit the TTS?

I'm very interested in hearing more from Stage 3 and higher guys regarding daily driving, turbo lag, DSG slipping, etc. At which rpm does GTX3071 and GTX3076 spool with Tial V-Band turbine?


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

I believe the body is the same as you said. if im wrong TT guru's correct me. Also, as far as stage 3 arm1tage and Reis are the only stage 3 guys im aware of here with the TTS. If they dont reply here you could look around for them in this section.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Ries car should be pretty bulletproof, he has the APR built engine and DSG internals. I think he got the deal of the decade on that car.

Mine has 69K miles and is still on stock block and clutchpacks. It's a testament to Audi's engineering that at double the stock power levels things are holding together. Stock PCV system, no catchcan, stock intake manifold, not even a carbon buildup cleaning yet. Changed the cam follower once. 

I have 13K miles so far on stage 3, and just flashed to the 100 octane tune and reactivated the meth injection. It is fast and very streetable with Haldex race controller, stiff rear swaybar, and MSS Sports kit in the rear (H&R's in front). More neutral handling and compliant ride. Also, this is the best stopping car I have ever driven thanks to the Cayenne brakes. With the stock backbox the car is even quiet. 

All that said, I have over $22K in mods and counting... I plan to keep the car forever so this is not a big deal. But I have a rainy day fund for internals and clutchpacks cause they are not gonna last. Would I be happier with a Evo X, 911 or GTR? Part of the fun is trying things yourself, seeing the improvements (or drawbacks), and with a low-volume car like this it is even more so. I do think the build quality of the Audi is a step above the rest though.


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

I'm down to selecting from a 2011 TTS or 2013 TTS. The 2013 TTS has electric and heated seats, 19" tires and I believe bigger front brakes than the 2011. It also has low miles and a good looking black/red interior.

The 2011's DSG is slipping a little bit. It also had a problem with the DSG water cooler where coolant water got mixed with the tranny oil. There was a lot of oil underneath the DSG unit. The owner said he fixed the problem but I'm not sure about it.

If I can get the owner of the 2013 to come down a little bit, then the deal will be done hopefully.


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

GTX2867R is not the ideal turbo for me. I think I will be trying a custom setup. Stage X if you want to call it.

I believe GTX3071 (stock internals or built) or even GTX3076 (built internals) is a better match for the 2.0L TTS engine. As far as I know these engines can easily rev up to 7500 rpm with just cam upgrade and head work.

Regarding the comments about other cars that could suit better high HP expectations, Evo X is a piece of trash. Especially, Evo X with the DST transmission is nothing but a world of problems when you start modifying the car.

Sure, 911 Turbo and GTR are much much better platforms to start with and can easily yield much higher HP, acceleration and handling levels but at which cost? Do you guys know how much it is to build a 911 Turbo boxer engine let alone the price of the 911 Turbo to start with. The 911 PDK is not modification friendly either. The fastest 911 Turbos run either automatic or sequential transmission. GTR is a great car. Better than 911 Turbo for modification and other purposes. But again the price tag of the car and the cost for modifying these car. For example, a Shep Stage 4 GTR transmission is $30K alone.

People do crazy things with Golf R's using GTX3076 or even GTX35 series. It's basically the same platform in TTS with less weight.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

TT KING said:


> GTX2867R is not the ideal turbo for me. I think I will be trying a custom setup. Stage X if you want to call it.
> 
> I believe GTX3071 (stock internals or built) or even GTX3076 (built internals) is a better match for the 2.0L TTS engine. As far as I know these engines can easily rev up to 7500 rpm with just cam upgrade and head work.
> 
> ...


Yup no disagreement here, I would probably still choose the TTS if I had to do it over again. But, having such a big turbo on a 2L engine does have its drawbacks. Maybe look into the Borg Warner EFR turbos? I hear they spool quicker than anything else out there.

For the 911 I was thinking a 996TT with flash would net you 550bhp for around $40k, but I'm not into the fried egg headlights or interior. GTR is tempting but there is a stigma associated with GTR drivers... whereas the TTS is just a little hairdresses car. So undercover, even mine in Sprint Blue. (knock on wood)


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

What paddle extensions did you get? I got some Carbon Fiber ones, but they are a bit too bat mobile for me.. freaking expensive as I recall and are just sitting unused.



Ries said:


> For what its worth...
> 
> My stage 3 TTS is quite fun as a daily driver. Not sure what it has officially for power, but I am told ~450hp on pump gas. Although at the price point I got into it for, it was worth it. You couldn't build the car for what I have into it. However if I were seeking your targeted power level I'm not sure I would start with a TTS. It's just not cost effective. There are far better cars to start with to reach that goal.
> 
> ...


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

I recently just took off my paddle extensions (the stick on kind). They added too much thickness and were getting in the way of the control stalks. Sucks cause I broke the tiny clips on the stock paddle trying to get that 3M tape off. Replaced with $50 OEM style OSIR paddles. They are really well made for the price although the size is the same.










I really like the facelift R8 paddles as an OEM option but they are $600!


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## Ries (Sep 18, 2014)

sentari said:


> What paddle extensions did you get? I got some Carbon Fiber ones, but they are a bit too bat mobile for me.. freaking expensive as I recall and are just sitting unused.


I purchased the Relak Rtech paddle extensions. They finally just released their chrome versions to match with the OEM existing paddles. I'm quite happy with mine. http://www.relakhq.com/Rtech-Paddles-Aluminum-RtechAlu.htm

I have pictures, which I took for Relak, but since I'm at work I can't post them up. I'll put them up later tonight.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

Funny, that was what I was looking for. I ended up with some Nexon carbon fiber ones that were too thick for my preferences as well.



Ries said:


> I purchased the Relak Rtech paddle extensions. They finally just released their chrome versions to match with the OEM existing paddles. I'm quite happy with mine. http://www.relakhq.com/Rtech-Paddles-Aluminum-RtechAlu.htm
> 
> I have pictures, which I took for Relak, but since I'm at work I can't post them up. I'll put them up later tonight.


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

Well, I pulled the trigger on purchasing the 2013 TTS with 15,000 miles. It's basically in brand new shape with all options except for factory Navigation which doesn't work here anyway. It's black with black/red full leather interior.

The car is great. Just needs some clever mods to turn into a true beast. I'll be starting a new thread for the build, starting with the mod list I have planned.

By the way, this forum seems slow compared to the other forums I'm used to such as 6speedonline, gtr forums, etc. Is this typical for TTS forum to get 1 reply every other day compared to 1 reply every 10-15 minutes?


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

congrats on the purchase! TTS is a great car. 

This forum covers all mkII TT variants. sometimes more action, sometimes slower. There are several other TT forum though, also facebook has groups for TT which can also be good resources. 

www.ttforum.co.uk


http://www.audiworld.com/forums/tt-mk2-discussion-120/



google is your friend!


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Fined said:


> congrats on the purchase! TTS is a great car.
> 
> This forum covers all mkII TT variants. sometimes more action, sometimes slower. There are several other TT forum though, also facebook has groups for TT which can also be good resources.
> 
> ...


And don't forget us over on quattroworld too! 

http://forums.quattroworld.com/tt2/

The mk2 TT is a low volume car and the TTS and RS even moreso. Within that small population you won't find a lot of people modding so there's not a lot of forum traffic. The resources we do have between quattroworld and here are very knowledgeable and happy to help though!


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

Thank you for the replies. I just did my first mod to the TTS and ditched the 2 cats and converted the midpipe to straight 3" pipe. The rear small resonator and stock muffler stays in place. What a difference it made in sound and no codes yet.

This will probably be my only mod until I get all the parts.

I will continue on a new thread regarding my plan for the new build.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Yup that 1st cat right after the manifold is such a power killer. And the stock muffler flows really good even at Stage 2+. Must be a huge jump in torque, enjoy!!


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

arm1tage said:


> Yup that 1st cat right after the manifold is such a power killer. And the stock muffler flows really good even at Stage 2+. Must be a huge jump in torque, enjoy!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Definitely the first and best thing to do was to ditch the factory cats. With cats removed and straight pipe until the rear factory resonator and muffler section, the cars sounds very mild almost unnoticeable in low revs and unless you get on the gas pedal. Once you floor it the sound is very impressive and no lift gear shifts are excellent.


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## dubbinitmk6 (Oct 26, 2010)

BKS Tuning sells some wide-body front fenders that provide more than one inch of extended clearance. I'm sure you can throw on some 295s in front and stick to 255s rear to offset some of the understeer.


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

dubbinitmk6 said:


> BKS Tuning sells some wide-body front fenders that provide more than one inch of extended clearance. I'm sure you can throw on some 295s in front and stick to 255s rear to offset some of the understeer.


I also found BKS Tuning wide front fenders while searching on Google. Do you have any experience with this company? It sounds weird that they have wide fenders for the front but nothing for the rear.

Throwing on some 295s in front and sticking to 255s rear to offset some of the understeer on a TTS? What? Hell no..


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## FastEddie7 (Aug 23, 2012)

damn, they need to make some rears to compliment the fronts. It would look awesome


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

Agreed. I thought perhaps it was just my lack of knowing... what can you do with a wider front track than the rear? I mean what is the point in having widened front fenders without matching the rear. I'm thinking that would just look weird. 
Maybe an aggressive fender rolling for the rear would make it look pretty close?


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## dubbinitmk6 (Oct 26, 2010)

TT KING said:


> I also found BKS Tuning wide front fenders while searching on Google. Do you have any experience with this company? It sounds weird that they have wide fenders for the front but nothing for the rear.
> 
> Throwing on some 295s in front and sticking to 255s rear to offset some of the understeer on a TTS? What? Hell no..


They are a reputable company. I have ordered from them before. The front fenders are bolt-on units whereas the rear require severe body-work since they span the metal body panel and two polymeric panels in the bumper. That is why it is impossible to sell a bolt-on product.

Since you're dealing with a FWD-biased platform (HALDEX), and a nose-heavy vehicle, it should prove to be true. Putting wider tires in the rear of a FWD vehicle than in the front induces under steer; why is it that adding wider tires up front would not do the opposite?

Can anyone else chime in on this matter?

Edit: Found this on the matter--if these editors don't know what they are talking about, I don't know who is. http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2012/massive-list-of-solutions-to-understeeroversteer/


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

Or you could save some money and just put skinnier tires on the rear. Yes we are FWD biased but do you really need 255's all around? That's a lot of tire for 270hp stock car. Now once you get to 400+whp then you may need those 295's on the front. Yes it will work. But do the other suspension mods first, rear swaybar on stiff, Haldex race controller, coilovers or MSS kits, etc...


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## dubbinitmk6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Of course we don't _need_ 295s in the front, but I sure didn't _need_ to upgrade from a stage 2 GTI to a TT-RS either.


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

If we are talking about TTS or TTRS with AWD here, wider front tires and skinnier rear tires is ridiculous and will give you nothing but problems. Ever driven a car with 295 or wider fronts? Literally the car will follow all the slopes and lines on the pavement and it's almost impossible to take your hands off the steering wheel. I suggest using the same size tire on all 4 corners on an AWD car. 275's on all corners should be plenty for big power and I mean real big power like 600+ whp. 295's on all corners would be great but first of all would require fender/body work and will put a lot of strain on the differentials and half shafts. Drag racers will know sometimes it's better to spin the tires instead of breaking differentials or half shafts.

Also, you can change the car's handling to neutral or even similar to rwd with doing the mods arm1tage mentioned, especially the sway bars and haldex controller. Hell, you can program the Haldex to send 30% to the front and 70% to the rear like R8 as default if you like and go sideways on corner exits.


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## TT KING (May 11, 2015)

Which swaybar is better H&R or Neuspeed?

The H&R has 
Front Adjustable Sway Bar (24mm) - Includes Bushings
Rear Adjustable Sway Bar (21mm) - Includes Bushings

Neuspeed has
Front Adjustable Sway Bar 25mm - Includes Bushings
Rear Adjustable Sway Bar 25mm - Includes Bushings

I guess the bigger diameter sway bars will give better overall handling but I would like to know first hand user experience and feedback.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

well I have all those mods and the car still understeers, it is more neutral at steady state cornering but no way is it like rwd. I can only get the rear to come out in the wet, it is a lot of fun until the tires find grip which is basically as soon as I shift. I'm going from 255/40-18 to 275/30-19 so it's probably not going to get any better.


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## arm1tage (Apr 14, 2010)

TT KING said:


> Which swaybar is better H&R or Neuspeed?
> 
> The H&R has
> Front Adjustable Sway Bar (24mm) - Includes Bushings
> ...


can't comments on the H&R but I have the Neuspeed. On the softest setting it's pretty close to stock. I had to change it to the stiffest to get a noticeable difference. But I have stock end links so with beefier ones there might be better response.


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## tttastic (Nov 2, 2014)

Not a direct comparison...the smaller diameter h&r bars may be as stiff or even more stiff than the neuspeed because the former is solid and the latter is hollow. We'd need to know wall thickness.

Soft setting on my 21mm h&r is noticeably stiffer than stock.

Braces and bars will help with understeer but the best thing you can do to make our cars more neutral is a race haldex. I just installed mine and the 50:50 power distribution is very neutral, very go cart.


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## derek8819 (Jan 29, 2013)

I don't know if I agree about the race Haldex being the best thing to make it more neutral, does it help, sure. I track very frequently with my TTS the best mod I have done hands-down is the MSS springs with a more track oriented alignment. i'm actually still running the stock sway bars with those springs and find the car to handle extremely well. When I did run a stiffer rear bar before the springs I choose H&R due to the solid design.


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## tttastic (Nov 2, 2014)

I agree...I should have said that it got rid of what remained of my understeer...I am on a mss kit as well, with h&r bar and moderately aggressive camber (though mainly to fit my +40 wheels lol) and already had all that on before installing the haldex.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

What benefit does the haldex controller have when turning in to a corner and presumably off throttle or at least generating very little torque?


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