# HID Kit plus Non-projectors Mk5 = Ticket in california?



## siren001 (Nov 6, 2009)

*HID Kit inside a Non-projectors Mk5 info needed*

Hey, 

I was thinking of putting a HID kit in my MK5, it has halogen reflectors in it now.

Has anyone done that? its a mk5.

Would that give me too much attention and get a ticket?

how much would a ticket be? i life in SF.


Or do I need projectors to run a HID kit.


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## siren001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Bump anyone


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## siren001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Bumb


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

you probably want to check with the regional forums.


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## BlsdEsquire (Mar 3, 2010)

You should be fine if you don't go too blue in color. I haven't had a problem with law enforcement running 6000's. I live in SoCal.


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## Javacolours (Apr 14, 2010)

Take a look at this.
Using HIDs in standard reflector housing is known to have glare, which will blind other drivers. I'd recommend getting projectors if you have the money for it, otherwise, when you install your HIDs in reflectors.. Make sure you aim them properly.

I live in Sacramento (Elk Grove), and I commute to Midtown Downtown daily without any pull-overs or suspicious looks from cops. I'd recommend not going blue/purple, stay 6000k and under and you should be fine.

Any other questions, feel free to ask! :thumbup:


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

Do not do it. HIDS are not meant for reflectors.


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## Javacolours (Apr 14, 2010)

Each and everyone to their own opinion. Sure. HIDs are not meant for reflectors. People have negative feelings towards using HID in reflectors because of the glare it gives off. However if you put it in a different context: even Halogen gives off glare because it's still light inside those casings but you don't notice it because you're already used to the "color" it gives off which is natural light you're seeing. All I'm saying once properly aimed that your actual light output is on the road itself and not in the air into other people's eyes, it's all good.


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm pretty sure its damn near impossible to control a HID light in a reflector. HID's are used with projectors because it projects the beam not reflect it and scatter it into a ton of different directions. 

It's a turrible idea.


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## Javacolours (Apr 14, 2010)

It's not *impossible*, using this link.. You can adjust them accordingly where the highest beam line is adjusted to the "legal" limit line to drastically cut down your glare and if you're absolutely concerned with the glare, joeymod the headlights to remove the chrome strips in front of the reflectors because that's where all the glare comes from.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

supremesb122389 said:


> I'm pretty sure its damn near impossible to control a HID light in a reflector. HID's are used with projectors because it projects the beam not reflect it and scatter it into a ton of different directions.
> 
> It's a turrible idea.


 Yes & no. 

Let's start with no. Many cars/trucks come with HID AND reflector. 

Yes--- it is when putting a HID bulb and expect a reflector designed for a tungsten-filament halogen bulb to properly control it.


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

HID in a reflector. And I highly HIGHLY doubt all of that is from a chrome strip. Turrible.


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

Javacolours said:


> It's not *impossible*, using this link.. You can adjust them accordingly where the highest beam line is adjusted to the "legal" limit line to drastically cut down your glare and if you're absolutely concerned with the glare, joeymod the headlights to remove the chrome strips in front of the reflectors because that's where all the glare comes from.


 I say this with the outmost respect to you but, you sir are an idiot. 

That links refers to STANDARD US REFLECTOR TYPE LIGHTS, and with common sense looking at the picture it looks like STANDARD US HALOGEN bulbs. NOT a HID in a reflector.


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## RINGSROC (Apr 2, 2007)

Like my daddy use to say "if your gonna do something, do it right." :thumbup:


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

Lets think about this picture for a second... have you ever taken a picture of a light bulb fully lit with a cell phone or standard camera? It's very scattered and definitely does come out clear... plus this picture was taken at night which also provides a bit of glare.... Projectors do the same thing - only difference is yes the focused cut off pattern that is projected from the lens. 


What you are seeing is leakage from the light reflector housing yes..., but if you park up next to a wall with projectors you will find that there is light leakage as well.... 

I have HID's in my projector lenses and still have leakage out the top and the sides, but yes it's much "softer" than the reflector lenses, but it's not "illegal" by any means...


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

You are allowed a max number of lumen output from your vehicle, and this also coming from a police officer that told me that you can put whatever lights bulbs you want in your car as long as they are not blue, green, red, purple, violet...etc... they have to be White. 

So lastly if it's your opinion that distracts you from this idea then so be it... it is what it is... but legality... your wrong... 


Like Java said, if aimed properly there is absolutely nothing wrong with adding HID to reflectors - here in Dallas you see it everyday from 18 Wheelers to Scooters... 


Joey modding does help with the glare though - i had this done with my oe reflector lenses and it killed a lot of that glare coming from the light housings.


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/log...p&t=2080&sid=ccba6ff84f2fe9a814f6134c0fa70eff 

I suggest those that say that there is nothing wrong with it to browse this forum and do a little focking research.


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

xJOKERx said:


> Lets think about this picture for a second... have you ever taken a picture of a light bulb fully lit with a cell phone or standard camera? It's very scattered and definitely does come out clear... plus this picture was taken at night which also provides a bit of glare.... Projectors do the same thing - only difference is yes the focused cut off pattern that is projected from the lens.


 Your right, the picture was taken at night. WHEN YOU ACTUALLY RUN YOUR LIGHTS.


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

HID'S WITH PROJECTORS--- 

































Now for the question about putting hid bulb in a halogen housing, you cannot do this. Any reflector or projector designed for a halogen bulb will not work with hid. the reason is the different ways the two bulbs emit light. Halogen has a small filament in the center of the bulb, whereas hid has a very large arc tube that emits light. The two require completely different optic design for the lens. The hid reflector and projector are designed based on the geometry of the hid bulb and how it emits light. This is why the oem hardware works so well. 

Now if you decide to go with a cheap kit and throw it in a halogen housing, bad things will happen. One, there will be alot of stray light (glare) above the cutoff line which will shine directly into drivers eyes. This is very dangerous due to the angle and brightness of the light. Also, you will have areas on the road where there is no light, and areas with more light. This produces hot spots, or uneven areas of lighting. While some kits provide decent ground light, much of it is lost above the cutoff and never makes it to the ground. in addition, halogen headlamps just do not provide a wide enough beam to really put the extra hid light to use. For example, lets put an H4 rebased hid kit into this civic halogen reflector. Look what happens on the wall, the cutoff is nothing but a large blob, and there is alot of light above the blob where there should not be any. 
Example-


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

True, where's the picture in front of the car? 


show a picture of it against the wall and stand back about 50+ feet you will see the leakage... it's on every headlight ever made... there is no way to contain light completely 



Here's a picture of mine taken with a cell phone in front of the car... very similar as the picture posted above... but yeah if i took pictures all around the car of the cut off pattern with a "good" camera then yes it will be similar to your honda civic there... but find a picture taken from the front...


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

This is running projectors for both fogs and low beams.... now tonight i'll take a picture of "when i actually run the lights" and show you that if you are about 50+ feet from the back of the car you will see the leakage... not quite as much as the reflector lenses but there is leakage... 


besides your statement above is again... False.... it will work as Java has proven that fact... maybe read his thread on here: http://forums.jettamkv.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5133&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=ddm 

if you look at the fence in your civic picture you can see part of the leakage at the top of the fence where it's lit... As we are both showing pictures of after market headlights as well. 

but as far as it working... your wrong... sorry again... 

by the way this is a VW forum too? not sure if you knew that or not.... 

Basically what this comes down too... is your wrong... it does work... and to answer the OP's original question... is NO you will not get a ticket for running HID in your reflector housings...


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

Is not my car all of that information is taken directly from the HID planet forums. Which should be a good read for you. 

I see the front of your car, point it against a wall and lets see that beam pattern. 

If you had completely read my post you would understand that the picture of the headlights against the fence is a HID BULB IN A REFLECTOR HOUSING. Never once have I said it "will not work" its just retarded.


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

Your garage picture is the same way look at the ladder on the wall... that is leakage... its called physics my friend... there is no way to contain the light in the housing without proper projection regardless of the lens....


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

So lets put HID bulb in a reflector housing. Not only will I blind other drivers, I'll actually lose light output from my car? I can see why its a good idea.


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

http://www.directconnectiontuning.com/parts.html 

get an adapter if you don't to go the vag com method and change the codes for HID 

http://www.ddmtuning.com/ 

get you a good 35w or 55w slim ballast and whichever color you want - your looking at $60 for both parts plus shipping an you are good to go my friend.  

just do it - don't listen to anyone else - you do what you want it's your car - and no you won't get a ticket - if people don't like the way it looks who cares... is it their car? no 

enjoy and drink responsibly :beer:


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

> So lets put HID bulb in a reflector housing. Not only will I blind other drivers, I'll actually lose light output from my car? I can see why its a good idea.


 I drive by them every night and i see everything from H2's to Tundras with flood lights with HID 

the only ones that actually blind me... and being in a lower car is the Mustang GT with all lights on... 

talking about HID Low Beams, and HID Flood lights... that's annoying, but other than that it's perfectly legal and it's not blinding as much as you say it is. 


besides if it's blinding you? why aren't you looking at the road? maybe that's the problem :screwy:


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

Planet HID... ok that's fine - but still... i've spoken with police officers with the same setup.... i've talked with DDM tuning --- it's not "recommended" but it's perfectly legal...


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

Not legal in california- 
First link-http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-ticket-in-California&highlight=HID+reflector 

Just some other threads on the topic- 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...in-reflector-housings&highlight=HID+reflector 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...lting-my-reflector!!!&highlight=HID+reflector 

And some articles written by the pro's 
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html 
http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

and just one more that is extremely interesting 

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/glare.html 

The NHTSA should be able to give us some good information right? 

I like this little tidbit of information 
To date, NHTSA has investigated 24 HID conversion kit suppliers; all investigations have resulted in recalls or termination of sales. 

RM Racing 
Astex USA 
Kmax International 
FET, Inc. 
J. Liu LLC 
Gourmet Garage 
JC Whitney 
Lighting Research 
SPW Industries, Inc. 
Pacific Micro-lite 
McCulloch Motors, Inc. 
Santeca Electronics 
JF Manufacturing 
Streetglow, Inc. 
Outback Products, Inc. 
Nu Performance 
GR Motorsports, Inc. 
Global Premier 
New Clor 
Importhookup.com 
DG International 
MTC Lighting 
Umnitza 
Liteglow 
American Products Company


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

alright alright enough arguments, it's going no where -- original OP 

check with your local city, state laws on what they consider to be legal. 

I see all colors around here and i'm pretty sure if people are getting tickets for it you wouldn't see them anymore... For here it's white and white only as the law states, nothing about HID, or reflectors or projectors... just states it has to be white in color and nothing else. 

what you will definitely get a ticket for is if you have rice lights going on your car... 



thought the civic was your car sorry


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

But the document provided is only a discussion as well... i don't see any laws pertaining to the actual glare because the glare cannot be measured from the naked eye... it would have to be addressed in a way that would measure the amount of glare coming from the vehicle to decide whether that is "too much" or enough to give a ticket without dismissal in court. 


Sorry where in your thread does it state by law it's illegal in California? i didn't see it anywhere... just a bunch of opinions... like you and myself. 

I don't live in California so i don't know, but our laws here are similar to that of California (Texas) 

That's the only thing i can suggest... is to investigate and read up on local laws regarding lighting, lumens, and the glare. LIke i said listening to everyone's opinion doesn't give you the answer your looking for. Not that your answer is that it will or will not work or that it's legal or not... no one can answer that for you unless they show the portion of the documents stating that this is indeed illegal... 

Like i said before i see everything on the road - violet, purple, yellow (most common) and blue (even more common) than the standard bulbs anymore... i don't see anyone pulled over that has these colors... and this in fact is against the law... 

I'm done discussing this because it's going no where... it's all opinion unless the law states it.... everyone is a critic.. 

Enjoy and have a good one :beer:


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

A discussion presented by an employee of the NHTSA. Also the fact that 24 investigations have been done and 24 recalls or termination of sales should say something. The first link provided clearly shows that what the OP wants to do in California is illegal and the two links outline (from professionals and experts in the automotive lighting industry) and show utilizing examples and common sense why it is a bad idea to put a HID bulb in a non-HID reflective housing. And the link showing how HIDS can infact burn the reflector. 

In daniel sterns article he links to a letter to one of the companies that was not given DOT approval for the hid conversion, can be found here 
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/deetz.ztv.html 

The other article utilizes 3 HID bulbs in normal reflector housings and 1 halogen bulb in a normal reflector housings. There you can see the extreme differences in glare. And they show directly in front of cars with retrofitted HIDS. They also compare beam patterns from HIDS done correctly to hids done incorrectly. 

The argument is going somewhere. They're illegal, they're has been 24 investigations and all of them have resulted in recalls or termination of sales. Here we have letters from the NHTSA to the manufactures with clear cut explanations as to why they are not license for sale.


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

Then why can you still find them on the net? whatever man... listen to this guy and you won't walk outside your house out of fear that your going to get arrested.... so do what you want...


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

Personal experience in my post that states no legal i california- with the link. 

Dude, you can find anything on the internet legal or illegal. The interwebz are worldwide last time I checked.


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

again another no name with an opinion... big whoop bud... 

telling someone their an idiot? ok and that also just goes to show how much your intelligence level is anyway... 


So mr know everything about everything... where in your fact sheet shows that you know anything about it? 

Beginning of the conversation you were suggesting no way to control the light.... proven you're wrong *edit* - in a way yes, in another way no.... it can be controlled where the focus point of the light is not in the oncoming driver's eyes... yes... -- control it completely no... 

stating that it's illegal... plausible... but no hard facts... You complaining and making yourself look like another snob that doesn't know jack schitt... well that's pretty evident... 

So before you quote your threads.... why don't you do some research on what your talking about before telling someone that they "can't" do something... 

anyone CAN do whatever they want... is it within their legal right... yes... they are choosing to do so... is it illegal... has yet to be 100% confirmed.... so your opinion means absolutely nothing... 

I do believe it's time for you to go finish your glass of milk and get back to class.... you might just learn something...


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## supremesb122389 (Nov 15, 2007)

How haven't I posted any hard evidence that it is illegal? I've posted first hand information from another person that resides in california that did what OP is talking about doing and they were fined. How about the 24 NHTSA investigations that were done and ALL 24 of them either cease and desist or recalls? How about the letters from a rep at NHTSA to companies that clearly state that it is illegal to sell they're kits in the US? 

Or how about this interview with Richard Van Iderstine an automotive lighting expert that works directly for the NHTSA, the questioned is proposed and specifically states HID conversion kits. He states "contrary to federal regulations." 

Full interview here- 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A37484-2004Nov9?language=printer 

There's your concrete evidence.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Javacolours said:


> Each and everyone to their own opinion. Sure. HIDs are not meant for reflectors. People have negative feelings towards using HID in reflectors because of the glare it gives off. However if you put it in a different context: *even Halogen gives off glare because it's still light inside those casings* but you don't notice it because you're already used to the "color" it gives off which is natural light you're seeing. All I'm saying once properly aimed that your actual light output is on the road itself and not in the air into other people's eyes, it's all good.


 Incorrect, but I *BOLDED* a comment you made to illustrate a point. 

Halogen reflector lamps have "built-in" glare by design. It's meant to light up overhead road signs here in the states. At any "point" in a reflector (and many projectors) is a pre-determined amount of glare. make no mistake, it's not there by accident. But it's there in just the right amount (for quality housings, as many are these days). But imagine all of those "barely noticeable" glare spots in a halogen lamp assembly now multiplied by 3! Because that's about what HID is. Halogen X 3. 
So, all of a sudden you've got that "bit of glare" that you see on the ceiling of your garage or overpass that is now multiplied by 3. 

It has nothing to do with the COLOR, and simply aligning your lamps down will NEVER get rid of glare. This is one of the biggest misconceptions that people think. Glare is built in and can literally light STRAIGHT UP in the air. You could align your lamps to point straight down and this "glare" would still be there.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

supremesb122389 said:


> Personal experience in my post that states no legal i california- with the link.
> 
> Dude, you can find anything on the internet legal or illegal. The interwebz are worldwide last time I checked.


 In theory, chopping up your housings or throwing in a bulb that wasn't OEM in your vehicle actually deems it illegal. That includes my setup, which is a bixenon ecode MK5 projector retrofitted into my MK3 lamps. Crazy as hell clean beam pattern but probably not legal. It comes down to more than glare. My lamps (by DOT standards) don't have ENOUGH glare! That's technically illegal. 



xJOKERx said:


> by the way this is a VW forum too? not sure if you knew that or not....
> 
> Basically what this comes down too... is your wrong... it does work... and to answer the OP's original question... is NO you will not get a ticket for running HID in your reflector housings...


 Two quick notes here... 
1) This is the "Tech Lighting" forum. Not VW specific. It's the same lighting forum across all of Vortex Media Group's car forums. Just a quick FYI. 
2) While chances are slim you'll NOT get a ticket, it's probably because most cops just don't know what to charge you with. Or don't have any means of "measuring" to prove that you've got an illegal setup in your car. But I will tell you that it'll draw much unwanted attention to you. 



supremesb122389 said:


> HID'S WITH PROJECTORS---
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Well said. 



supremesb122389 said:


> http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/log...p&t=2080&sid=ccba6ff84f2fe9a814f6134c0fa70eff
> 
> I suggest those that say that there is nothing wrong with it to browse this forum and do a little focking research.


 Research yes! No need for going around the language filter here.  



xJOKERx said:


> You are allowed a max number of lumen output from your vehicle, and this also coming from a police officer that told me that you can put whatever lights bulbs you want in your car as long as they are not blue, green, red, purple, violet...etc... they have to be White.
> 
> So lastly if it's your opinion that distracts you from this idea then so be it... it is what it is... but legality... your wrong...
> 
> ...


 More I bolded...There is no way to "aim" away the glare that is produced in this instance. And on the COLORS...let's not forget that HIDs are WHITE, when put through projectors it's the optics that make it appear more purple than it really is. 



supremesb122389 said:


> I say this with the outmost respect to you but, you sir are an idiot.
> 
> That links refers to STANDARD US REFLECTOR TYPE LIGHTS, and with common sense looking at the picture it looks like STANDARD US HALOGEN bulbs. NOT a HID in a reflector.


 And last but NOT least, let's play nice here and NOT call people names.


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## Javacolours (Apr 14, 2010)

Due to actual OP's question.. 

It's only a matter of what the law can do to you, and whether they enforce a specific part of the law that is being set forth and in this case: The legality of having HID setup plus Non-projectors. 

Anything not DOT-approved is absolutely illegal to have on any car, whether it may be a VW or a Semi trailer or a Honda. I can see how each and everyone of you have your own opinions on HID setups in projector or non-projector housings but it all really comes back to if the cops will pull you over and write you up for it. 

Many cops probably won't pull you over if you aim them appropriately, keep the color white or yellow. 
Any other color and you aim the damn thing right at other people. Sure, expect a ticket for it is all I have to say.  

Bottom line: 
HID (DOT Approved) in projector housing (DOT Approved) = Legal 
HID (DOT Not Approved) in projector housing (DOT Approved) = Illegal 
HID (DOT Approved) in projector housing (DOT Not Approved) = Dunno, Common Sense says Illegal 
HID (DOT Not Approved) in projector housing (DOT Not Approved) = Illegal 

HID (DOT Approved) in halogen housing (DOT Approved) = That's up for debate. But could be technically legal. 
HID (DOT Not Approved) in halogen housing (DOT Approved) = Illegal 
HID (DOT Approved) in halogen housing (DOT Not Approved) = Illegal 
HID (DOT Not Approved) in halogen housing (DOT Not Approved) = Illegal


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## DIRTBIKEZ (Oct 25, 2005)

Illegal or not, its reckless and down right inconsiderate to all other drivers on the road. It amazes me the vast number of ignorant people putting poor quality HIDs in reflector housings.


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## J286duesey (Oct 9, 2008)

If you want more light out of your factory halogen housings, switch to Sylvania Silverstar Ultras. You can find a store on their store locator at www.sylvania.com. This is a lot cheaper than tickets or a new set of approved HID headlights.


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## Javacolours (Apr 14, 2010)

J286duesey said:


> If you want more light out of your factory halogen housings, switch to Sylvania Silverstar Ultras. You can find a store on their store locator at www.sylvania.com. This is a lot cheaper than tickets or a new set of approved HID headlights.


 That is an option to consider.


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

What about the Toyota Prius? comes factory with HID in the reflectors  


I can't believe this discussion is still going on. how funny  


Silverstar Ultra's are really good actually --- might also check out Philips Nightguide, and a couple others through Philips. They have several that are rated around 4500K to 5200K which are pretty white. 

Crystalvision ultra, Nightguide, and Xtreme Power are all really good through phillips - have used on other cars.... 

Check out the Osram Silverstar as well those are suppose to be pretty white without the blue bulb color...


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## siren001 (Nov 6, 2009)

Been Running h7 65watt 7000k a year, 


thinking of switching to HID 5000k 35watt, think it would be brighter?


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## Javacolours (Apr 14, 2010)

siren001 said:


> Been Running h7 65watt 7000k a year,
> 
> 
> thinking of switching to HID 5000k 35watt, think it would be brighter?


 If you're transitioning from halogens, HID will be considerably brighter either way. 
Also since you're used to 7000k, 5000k color will put out good light in terms of luminosity. 

I'd recommend DDMtuning cause they're well-priced for the kits they have with superb quality and you can follow up on the DIY I made (Link posted by xJOKERx earlier in the thread). 

Any help needed, feel free to PM me. :thumbup:


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## xJOKERx (Apr 8, 2009)

Yeah if you going from 7K to 5K your increasing your light output by probably 40%+ --- you start loosing output after 6K --- 4500K is the highest i believe (might be wrong on that though) - it's very "white/hardly yellowing in color" anything below it becomes more yellow down to red... higher you go becomes very white 5240(Sun/white/12noon/summertime) to more of a blue hue over into deep blue and then purple/violet after 12K 
umpkin::vampire:


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