# HID Relay Problems



## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

I have a 12000K aftermarket hook up on the jetta and it works "alright" but I have the usual problems such as flickering and 
sometimes the pas. side doesn't come on, so I know this is due to 
not having enough power going to them, so I bought a relay and hooked it up, and they don't work, tried switching the polarity on the plugs that go into the ballstics thus far nothing seems to work I know I have the ground and postive hooked up, I even tried hooking it up to a jumper pack and tested to see if the relay itself without being on the car had current, I didn't get any readings on the meter when I did this, just wondering if anybody has any ideas thanks..


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## Ub3RcAM (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

ive been told too many things...which is frustrating. ive heard just disabling the DRL's will make it stop flickering. then ive been told that theres a wiring kit for relays that you can have installed....which makes sense but no one has said an exact answer. honestly i think its a myth to own aftermarket HID's in a vw


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## fixmy59bug (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (Ub3RcAM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ub3RcAM* »_ive been told too many things...which is frustrating. ive heard just disabling the DRL's will make it stop flickering. then ive been told that theres a wiring kit for relays that you can have installed....which makes sense but no one has said an exact answer. honestly i think its a myth to own aftermarket HID's in a vw

Ok. You want an exact answer fro an experienced HID owner.
Relays are HIGHLY suggested.
And yes it is NECESSARY to disable the DRL's.
Why, you might ask? The DRL circuit runs on approx. 10 volts. 10 volts does not carry enough amperage to properly fire off the ballasts. Therefore you will get constant flickering.
Second, It is recommended to run a relay with HID's because Vw uses the smallest wire they can get away with on the Vw's. Why pay more for thicker wire when it is not necessary. If you compare the headlight wiring gauge of halogens to the wiring gauge of xenons you will see the xenons have slightly thicker wiring. The reason is voltage drop. The longer the wire is, the more voltage drops. The thinner the wire is the quicker it drops because it is harder to push the voltage longer distances. As I am sure you can figure out, the wiring to the passenger side is a little bit longer than the drivers side. Therefor, the propensity for voltage dropis more prominent on the passenger side, which explains why that side is the most common to flicker.
So, that physics lesson aside, as I am sure you have read many many times, it is necessary to run Relays and disable DRL's when using HID's on standard North American vw wiring. I do not believe that alot of people would post that suggestion just because one person suggested it and that suggestion spread like wild fire because they "read it on the internet, so it must be true".
So, that takes care of Ub3.
Now, If the OP can tell us how he hooked up the relay, maybe we can figure out what went wrong there.
I am thinking mayabe the relay got hooked up wrong and that is why it is not working.


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

Just to be clear - if you install a relay then you don't need to disable the DRLs.


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

Well I have a reg relay as in just a postive wire and neg wire for the battery, one wire that connects to the driver side oem headlight plug, I assume for the switch aspect of the relay, and then two sets of wires that go to each ballastic, that supply the power, if you want I can take some pictures. so that is how the relay is supposed to go, basically your supposed to be able to do a virtual plug and play with the relay on your exsisting HID setup and it should work.. How would I go about disableing the DRLs because I don't like them on anyway.. and it makes sense about the whole the longer the wire the lower the voltage... 
Thanks for the help thus far..


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

It just seems like Im not getting any electricty from the battery to the ballastics to power the lights up... Do Relays them selfs go bad.. And its a four prong relay not a five.. 40AMP


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## Ub3RcAM (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

is there a wiring harness or a wiring set up with a relay and stuff set up already for purchase? im not very good with electronics so....


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## fixmy59bug (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *200K VR6* »_Well I have a reg relay as in just a postive wire and neg wire for the battery, one wire that connects to the driver side oem headlight plug, I assume for the switch aspect of the relay, and then two sets of wires that go to each ballastic, that supply the power, if you want I can take some pictures. so that is how the relay is supposed to go, basically your supposed to be able to do a virtual plug and play with the relay on your exsisting HID setup and it should work.. How would I go about disableing the DRLs because I don't like them on anyway.. and it makes sense about the whole the longer the wire the lower the voltage... 
Thanks for the help thus far.. 

Ok, That's not exactly a detailed description on how it is wired, but we can try to work with it. Just going off memory, here is how it is supposed to be wired.
If you look at the bottom of the relay you will see each terminal has a number next to it.
85 is supposed to go to ground
85 is supposed to go to the headlight switch trigger wire.
*these two wires are NOT mutually exclusive. they can be reversed with no ill effects because all they do is energize an internal electromagnet.
30 is incoming fused battery power
and 87 is outgoing battery power to headlight ballasts.
If you need a picture to clearly explain this, you can google search for relay wiring and there are many many pictures that can give you a picture of what I just said.
Also, if you are using a pre wired connector, look at the bottom of the connector and see if there is a resistor there. If there is, cut that resistor out. The one time I used it, it started smoking and eventualy burned out anyways. I have never had any ill effects with the resistor removed.
As far as disabling the DRL's, Check the DIY. It is in there.
Remove the headlight switch, bend down or tape off the TFL pin. Reinstall headlight switch. Done.


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## ljlopz (Apr 29, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

You talk about relays, but if you get a digital hid ballesk will you still need one?
They say that there is no need for a relay harness.
You can go to ebay.com and enter this item # for more info on it 150239339968....
please let me know.. i want to get some HID's and since there are so many I want to make sure I can get some decent ones and not need all kinds of extra stuff.


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## Ub3RcAM (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (ljlopz)*

ok so i took it to a local shop and they hooked it up and switched off the DRL's so now i just need to find a relay harness thats PRE-made....theres gotta be one around here somewhere!


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (Ub3RcAM)*

You can get one online or make one yourself by going to radio shack You can find out how to make one online as well, its not too hard..


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

































































Red wires are pos and black are neg obvi. so you have a better idea of what Im trying to hook up..
Thanks


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## fixmy59bug (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

Ok, If I am looking at these blurry pictures correctly, I think I may have your problem figured out. 
The fat red wire with the fuse connects directly to the positive terminal on the battery.
The fat black wire with the ring on the end connects to the negative terminal on the battery.
The 2 black plugs with the red and black wires connect to the power connection on the ballast.
The bigger black connector is where the relay plugs in.
I am sure all that is fairly obvious. But I figured I would tell you just in case.
The blue housing is where one of your original head light sockets plugs in. However here is where you run into a few problems.
Problem #1. Those two terminals inside the blue housing should not be bent down. That is what sends power and ground to activate the relay. That is why your relay is not activating and the HID's are not coming on when the harness is used.
Please take a picture of the bulbs. There should be two wires with AMP connectors to go to the ballast run through a grommet. But I also need to know if there are two extra wries to run power from the OEM headlight socket to the ballast. If not, that brings up problem #2.
Problem #2. This is not a Vw specific harness. There is no way to use that blue housing and still be able to seal the back cover back onto the headlight housing. You have one of two choices to make.
The best choice would be to cut off that blue housing and splice directly into the headlight wires outside of the housing. That way you do not have to leave the back of the headlight housings open to the elements just so you can get power from the OEM headlight to the ballast.
Please get that picture of the bulb and wiring and I can get you more information.


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## fixmy59bug (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (ljlopz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ljlopz* »_You talk about relays, but if you get a digital hid ballesk will you still need one?
They say that there is no need for a relay harness.
You can go to ebay.com and enter this item # for more info on it 150239339968....
please let me know.. i want to get some HID's and since there are so many I want to make sure I can get some decent ones and not need all kinds of extra stuff.

LJ, It is possible that you may not need relays with a digital ballast. That I do not know. However, you say you want to get a decent set of HID's but you do not want "all kinds of extra stuff'. 
Isn't it worth spending $10 extra dollars to make a relay kit yourself and protect that decent set you just bought? If it is not needed and you do it anyways, Oh well. you are only out 10 bucks.
If you do need it and don't protect it with a relay, you will be buying a new decent set. Manufacturers warranty will NOT cover improper installation. 
It's just me, but I would rather protect it than risk it.


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

Yes the red and black wires are obvi. 
As far as the bulbs yes there are two AMP connectors along 
with two wires that come off the bulbs, one being blue and the other 
being black. 
So how do I connect them "blue and black wires" to the factory socket and what wires should I splice into for the relay switch.. that question pretaning to your statement "The best choice would be to cut off that blue housing and splice directly into the headlight wires outside of the housing. That way you do not have to leave the back of the headlight housings open to the elements just so you can get power from the OEM headlight to the ballast"
Thanks...


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## fixmy59bug (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *200K VR6* »_As far as the bulbs yes there are two AMP connectors along 
with two wires that come off the bulbs, one being blue and the other 
being black. 
So how do I connect them "blue and black wires" to the factory socket and what wires should I splice into for the relay switch.. that question pretaning to your statement "The best choice would be to cut off that blue housing and splice directly into the headlight wires outside of the housing. That way you do not have to leave the back of the headlight housings open to the elements just so you can get power from the OEM headlight to the ballast"
Thanks...









The mentioned "best choice" was only if those extra wires with the HID bulb did not exist.
Since they do exist, The best choice is to plug those two wires into the OEM head light plug and run the other end of those wires to the ballast. But again, it would be easiest to explain if you can take a picture of the HID bulb and wires.


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

Unfortunately I don't have the car with me and am unable to take some pictures of the bulbs but what I can tell you is that.. each bulb has four wires coming out of it, two have the AMP ends on them, and the other two wires, one being black and the other being blue like I mentioned before. They are all zip tied togeather.. the black and blue wires have no special ends they are just cut off and laying there.. So I have two wires that go to the ballast and two wires that hang free coming from the back of the bulbs..


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## fixmy59bug (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

Ok, you have two choices and I am going to do the best I can to help you considering we have no access to the pics of the bulbs.
You have 4 wires going through the grommet.
Red with AMP connector, Black with AMP connector, blue, and black.
You obviously know where the amp connectors connect.
The blue and black wires (on the bulb side of the grommet) connect to the plug inside the headlight to the ground and low beam power.
On the otherside of the grommet, the blue sends power to terminal 85 on the relay. While the black wire connects to terminal 86 on the relay.
That will activate the relay. From there, terminal 30 from the relay goes to the positive input of the ballast and the negative should go straight to the battery.


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

So if I understand you right, the relay won't be connected to the pos terminal on the battery any longer, just the neg will be connected to the terminal... Correct ? So I will be running the lights off of the OEM socket pretty much right... Im just trying to understand how the relay will help in this setup thats all..
thanks..


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## fixmy59bug (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

Actually the relay will still be connected to the battery through terminal 30 on the positive.
85 and 86 will be connected to the headlight plug, you are correct there. That way you are using the headlight circuit to activate the relay. 
Once the relay is activated, it does it's job. Which to say is transferring clean battery power directly to the ballast using maybe 8 feet of (minimum) 14 gauge wiring wiring (instead of through the dashboard to the headlight switch back out to the lights using probably more like 20-25 feet of 18-22 gauge wiring).
Edit: After re-reading my previous post I can see how it was read as the relay not being connected to the battery. So I have copied and pasted below with the necessary correction:

_Quote, originally posted by *Fixmy59bug* »_Ok, you have two choices and I am going to do the best I can to help you considering we have no access to the pics of the bulbs.
You have 4 wires going through the grommet.
Red with AMP connector, Black with AMP connector, blue, and black.
You obviously know where the amp connectors connect.
The blue and black wires (on the bulb side of the grommet) connect to the plug inside the headlight to the ground and low beam power.
On the otherside of the grommet, the blue sends power to terminal 85 on the relay. While the black wire connects to terminal 86 on the relay.
That will activate the relay. From there, terminal 30 from the relay goes to the positive *terminal on the battery. Terminal 87 on the relay will go to the positive* input of the ballast. and the negative *input on the ballast* should go straight to the battery.



_Modified by fixmy59bug at 10:38 AM 4-30-2008_


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

OK thanks you have been a great help... 
I will try it and see how it goes.. I will let ya know... 
Thanks again...


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

So the relay is working fine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and everything is good, I just have one problem left...
I have the hi/lo beam HIDs and when I pull the headlight knob to act as if I was going to flash someone when they have there high beams on the high beams work on the headlights, but when I go to push the knob forward to engage the highbeams like normal they dont engage to the highbeams... and my highbeam indicator on the dash stays on all the time... I hooked up the relay just as it should be hooked up but now the hi/lo problem.. any suggestions...


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

Does your car have fog lights?


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (dennisgli)*

yea I put in euro headlights and they have the fog lights included in the headlight assembly... I haven't switched the OEM headlight switch out yet with the euro switch that I have, due to that being in FL and Im in NC right now.. Just wondering if there is anything I can do to fix the hi/lo beam issue before I put in the euro switch.. 
thanks..


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## dennisgli (May 17, 2003)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

I was thinking that the fog light relay might not be getting a good enough ground from the high beam solenoid. That would cause the high beam warning light to be on whenever the lights are on.


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (dennisgli)*

well I have it grounded to the chasis do you think that might be a problem.. Because with the relay I have installed it has a ground wire for each light.. and on each side I grounded it out on the chasis the one side I could ground it out on the battery just wondering if that might have something todo with it..


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## fixmy59bug (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

(1:10 PM 5-18-2008) 200K VR6: Hey I know its been a while but I just had a question for ya because you were so helpful before.. I got the relay to work with the HIDs it was the OEM connector with the tabs bent up like I showed you in the picture.. the only problem I have now is that I can't seem to get the headlights to work... because its a hi/lo beam HID I can get the high beams to work when I pull back the switch to normally flash someone when they have there high beams on, but when I go to normally put the high beams on nothing happens.. the low beams work fine.. and the headlight indicator on the dash is always on.. any suggestions.. thanks..

(1:18 PM 5-18-2008) fixmy59bug: How is this a hi/low system? Does it have a seperate bulb for the high beam or does it have a moveable solenoid?

(1:23 PM 5-18-2008) 200K VR6: a moveable solenoid... 


(1:24 PM 5-18-2008) 200K VR6: The only thing Im wondering might be causing the problem is that I have both headlights grounded to the chasis.. But that is just a guess on my part..

(1:26 PM 5-18-2008) fixmy59bug: Ok, I think I know what is going on. The solenoid does not provide enough resistance in the system so it turns on the high beam indicator because the car thinks the high beam bulb is burned out. You can still activate the high beam by pulling back because it is hardwired. It bypasses the system when you pull back. If I am not mistaken, you need to put a resistor inline so the system sees some resistance in the wires. Unfortunately, I do not know what size resistor you would need and where to install it. I will post this conversation in your thread so someone else can chime in (incase they have the answer).


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (fixmy59bug)*

The other problem that is happening is that my passenger side front parking light doesn't come on when I turn on my headlights.. the drivers side does, the signal still works just no parking light...


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## austinquattro (Apr 27, 2008)

Similar issue...I installed the Relay and some capacitors with an Electrical Engineer buddy of mine. One ballast worked and one stopped working entirely. When I switch sides it clearly is the ballast.
10 minutes later, the "good" ballast starts to flicker and go out, and now I can't even get that one to stay on for more than 30 seconds or so. 
My thought is that the ballast was just waiting to fail because prior to the relay, it was not getting enough power. But the ballast that crapped out first never got exposed to that. 
I'm putting a meter on the alternator and the battery to check the voltage and amperage to be sure that there is no other problem, but it seems to me that if there was an voltage issue with either the battery or alternator that I would have other issues with the car, and I do not. 
Barring any "off" numbers from the electrical test, does anyone have any idea why this would be happening?
CHEAP HID KIT keeps coming to mind...so does anyone have a suggestion for a quality kit that has worked for others? The people I got the kit from have been very helpful and are willing to refund my money.
Thanks!
Oh yeah, I have a 2004 GLI with HELIX dual CCFL Halo projector headlight assembly. (this is the one the folks here on VWVortex recommended)
thanks!


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## austinquattro (Apr 27, 2008)

Well, I got new ballasts (the thin ones) and the problem seems solved...no flickering, dimming, shutting off...nothing...very happy now. And the guys were very nice about the whole thing.


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## 200K VR6 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (dennisgli)*

Yea it has fog lights, which I just got the euro switch for today and they aren't coming on, the dash indicator says that they are on but on the headlight its a no go...?


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## careless1300 (Mar 10, 2008)

*Re: HID Relay Problems (200K VR6)*

I have a set of HIDs in my 2000 jetta, no relay, no flickering, no dimness, no problems. But by reading this post im begining to question if anyone knows how a relay actually works. If u hook up your relay directly to the battery...its going to be on all the time, so dont forget to put the switch in between the better somewhere. Either on the power or ground side. Thats kinda the point of a relay. To control a high current circuit with a low current circuit.
And a voltage drop of a wire should be .5 volts or less, usually .2 volts. REGARDLESS of the length of wire. Specially if its just a few feet to the passengers side.
So on the coil side of the relay, u should have, battery...switch...relay...ground. Then on the switched side u should have, battery power...ballast/bulb/whatever u r trying to power...ground.
I tried reading the wiring diagram on the vw headlight circuit but its absolute madness. german wiring diagrams are something else. I hope to have helped a little something to whoever needs it.
But like i said. I dont have any relays and any problems. And ive had them in my car for 3-4 months now, and not ONE flicker.


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## austinquattro (Apr 27, 2008)

Wow, that was kind of interesting...yes, I know how a relay works. And in this case, the idea is that rather than using the power supplied by the factory wiring, we will just use power directly from the battery, switched on and off by the factory wiring. Hooking up the relay directly to the battery is the only way to make any use of it...that is, the power and ground need to be hooked up to the battery so that when the factory wire sends power to the lights, it will instead go to the relay, which will switch open or on and allow the power to flow from the battery to the lights.
It's kind of insulting to come in here and state "...by reading this post im beginning to question if anyone knows how a relay actually works." 
And it is awesome that you have not had to use a relay and that your ballasts have not given you any issues. Unfortunately, something entirely different has happened to a lot of people, me included. And when I used the relay the problem went away.
On this forum many people have had problems. The idea here is to help trouble shoot the problems and make the HID lighting kit work correctly. It seems that using the Relay will help to solve the problem. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but please be a little more constructive in your post, rather than border-line insulting of a lot of peoples' intelligence.
My $.02


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