# 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!!



## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

Most said I was a fool for doing something like this, which of course I took as encouragement. I bought the shortblock used for $80, a fresh set of rings and rod bearings for $63, and got the head gasket for free from my machine shop because it had been on the shelf for about 9 years. Total cost: $143. The compression is somewhere between 13:1 and 14:1 so race gas is mandatory. I ported and polished the JH head with stock valves, and I'm using a performance grind from Delta Cams in Washington State. I have to give some credit to these guys....they know there [email protected]#$ and are more than helpful everytime you call, and you can't beat their prices, $65 per cam. I had to use the 8 valve countershaft, countershaft pulley, crank pulley, distributor and oil pump. The distributor needed some minor grinding on the aluminum housing where it fits into the block, but nothing major. I reused all the seals and gaskets because they didn't break when I tore the engines apart and they were replaced within the last couple years. I fired it up last night on 111 octane fuel, and it runs like a bat out o' hell. It'll smoke the tires (or tire, I haven't the money for a quaife quite yet) for about half a block in first, and pulls hard all the way to 6K in the rest of the gears. I still have to figure out how to disable the rev limiter. I'm using TT hi rev valvesprings so the motor should be good to at least 7000. According to my autometer A/F ratio meter, its going a little lean on top, even with my autotech enrichening module. I'm going to try a set of 911 turbo injectors (stolen fair and square from my neighbor up the street) and volvo 740 turbo injectors this week, see if I can fatten it up a bit at the higher RPMs. All in all, I'm very impressed with the performance of the engine, although I'll keep trying for more. Nitrous will probably be set up in the next couple of weeks. I'll post results. If anyone else has done this engine, please let me know what you found that worked best. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 85vdub (Apr 9, 2003)

right on! I was thinking of going this route for a Drag car. I think a 9a bottom end with a worked over JH head 308 Cam and a set of DCOE's would be a awesome combo for a drag car.


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## 85GTI CA (Apr 7, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

good to hear you got the beast running! There is this other guy on the tex running a 9a bottom here too! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1557191 
If you figure out how to defeat the rev limiter let me know, maybe I can check out your car sometime. laters! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (85GTI CA)*

Supposedly I can change the fuel pump relay or break of one of the terminals....This motor doesn't come on until about 4 grand and pulls hard to the limiter, another thousand RPMs would be nice....let it stretch its legs a bit. I'm looking for a 9A bottom end now. If a 1.8 runs this good, a 9A should be a rocket. Give me a call if you want to come by and check it out..... 310-947-7014.


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## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

hey man, how far is manhattan beach from Glendale/pasadena , CA ?? i am trying to do the same setup 16v block with 8v head, if you ever wanted to sell your block i'll take it off your hands, i will be using this setup in my daily driver, so i wouldn't want to do a 2.0 block with 8v head since the comp will be WAYY WAYY too high ( for a street ride ) and i can't afford race gas everyday !







i'm in area code 818 if it will help . if you guys are close can i come after Dec 18th to check out your ride ? we could get to know each other, maybe i could help you with something you need, and instead you give me info on stuff i need !


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## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (zero666cool)*

hey can you still get the piston rings and rod bearings for that cheap again ? or it was just once in a lifetime opportunity ?


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## Speed Racer. (Sep 3, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (zero666cool)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zero666cool* »_do a 2.0 block with 8v head since the comp will be WAYY WAYY too high ( for a street ride ) 

What is the compression with an ABA bottom end and JH head?


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (Speed Racer.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Speed Racer.* »_
What is the compression with an ABA bottom end and JH head?

About 10.3:1,


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## Racer_X (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (85GTI CA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *85GTI CA* »_good to hear you got the beast running! There is this other guy on the tex running a 9a bottom here too! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1557191 
If you figure out how to defeat the rev limiter let me know, maybe I can check out your car sometime. laters! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I take it from your profile that you have an A2 car. If you have CIS-E and the knock sensor, the rev limiter is controlled by the knock sensor controller and the fuel pump relay. The KS controller provides ground to the relay, activating the fuel pump. It only grounds the relay when the revs are over zero (engine must be turning) and below the rev limit.
There are two ways to disable this. For those familiar with A1's and with lots of A1 spare parts, you can wire up the A1 fuel pump relay into your car and ignore the stock relay. The A1 relay has the control circuit in the relay itself. It connects to the coil in addition to the standard relay connections for ground and the switched circuit. There's no rev limit on the earlier ones. The late cabbies and CIS foxes have one with a limiter built in, so don't use one of those. 
The clever/smart way is to cut the lead from the fuel pump relay to the KS controller and splice a wire to that and connect it through a diode to one of the oil pressure switches. I think it's the one on the head. One of those switches grounds out when there's pressure present. The other stays grounded and opens when pressure is present. You want to connect to the one that grounds with pressure in the oil system. 
Do not just ground that wire to activate the fuel pump continuously when the ignition is on. If you are in an accident and break a fuel line, the pump will continue to run and pump the entire contents of your fuel tank out the broken line. This usually results in a horrible fire. I know someone who did this and spent months in the hospital after the accident. No matter what you do, you want the fuel pump to turn off within a few seconds of the engine stopping for any reason. That's the safety function of the fuel pump relay.


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (Racer_X)*

In this case I would use a 16v knock box.


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## 85GTI CA (Apr 7, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (KOOTER)*

Thanks for the info Racer X! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (Racer_X)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Racer_X* »_I take it from your profile that you have an A2 car. If you have CIS-E and the knock sensor, the rev limiter is controlled by the knock sensor controller and the fuel pump relay. The KS controller provides ground to the relay, activating the fuel pump. It only grounds the relay when the revs are over zero (engine must be turning) and below the rev limit.
There are two ways to disable this. For those familiar with A1's and with lots of A1 spare parts, you can wire up the A1 fuel pump relay into your car and ignore the stock relay. The A1 relay has the control circuit in the relay itself. It connects to the coil in addition to the standard relay connections for ground and the switched circuit. There's no rev limit on the earlier ones. The late cabbies and CIS foxes have one with a limiter built in, so don't use one of those. 
The clever/smart way is to cut the lead from the fuel pump relay to the KS controller and splice a wire to that and connect it through a diode to one of the oil pressure switches. I think it's the one on the head. One of those switches grounds out when there's pressure present. The other stays grounded and opens when pressure is present. You want to connect to the one that grounds with pressure in the oil system. 
Do not just ground that wire to activate the fuel pump continuously when the ignition is on. If you are in an accident and break a fuel line, the pump will continue to run and pump the entire contents of your fuel tank out the broken line. This usually results in a horrible fire. I know someone who did this and spent months in the hospital after the accident. No matter what you do, you want the fuel pump to turn off within a few seconds of the engine stopping for any reason. That's the safety function of the fuel pump relay. 

that's what i did, and as you could see here


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## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (zero666cool)*

NOTE the car is still cold, so the air fuel ratio is still on idle ( first light of the idle, so super low idle ) not even rich yet !


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## HGB (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (zero666cool)*

i like that engine combo, i did some 9 years ago with passat bottom ends, everyone laughed, yes even the guys at autotech, rapid parts, and other laughed. i had the thing set up with webers. i blew away so many cars at the autocross, on the street, and at the once good car club. yes the mustang 5.0l guys went back to the drawing board. i'm building a normanlly aspirated car, 13.5 to 1 comp ratio,( 8v head, 16v 2.0 bottom) with an sds system. back then we made 173 hp with the webers. we should be well over 200 this time. anyone ever wonder why nate romeo keeps running 12S with his normally aspirated rabbit?


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (HGB)*

I tried running the 16V knock box but it sucked. The advance curve was too short and it didn't make any power. I'm using the 16V cis computer and that works great. I had some problems with the idle so I pitched the idle valve and have a simple restrictor in place instead. 

I'm having some head gasket issues right now but I think a set of studs will solve that problem. Otherwise, I'm looking for a bigger cam, about a 280 or 288. I have a brand new TT306 Race cam to trade if anyone is interested.


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## SpoonEngineering (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

that tt 306 is a hydro or solid cam?


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (SpoonEngineering)*

solid


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## SpoonEngineering (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

IM sent


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## coneracer (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (HGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HGB* »_i like that engine combo, i did some 9 years ago with passat bottom ends, everyone laughed, yes even the guys at autotech, rapid parts, and other laughed. i had the thing set up with webers. i blew away so many cars at the autocross, on the street, and at the once good car club. yes the mustang 5.0l guys went back to the drawing board. i'm building a normanlly aspirated car, 13.5 to 1 comp ratio,( 8v head, 16v 2.0 bottom) with an sds system. back then we made 173 hp with the webers. we should be well over 200 this time. anyone ever wonder why nate romeo keeps running 12S with his normally aspirated rabbit? 


173 HP.







That is kick ass....Any more info? 
I'm building something similar.


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## SpoonEngineering (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (coneracer)*

coneracer,
what fuel did you running on that swap?


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (SpoonEngineering)*

I'm using 111 leaded, I can still run plenty of timing using this fuel. I tried 100 octane AV gas (I know, you're not supposed to use AV gas in cars) and I couldn't advance the timing enough to get any power out of it.


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## SpoonEngineering (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

wow....thats nutz man....you are crazy....LOL....keep it up man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (SpoonEngineering)*

Yes.....I'm crazy......I'm on my 3rd set of rod bearings in 3 track days. The rods are at my machine shop being resized right now. Soon I will install yet another set of rod bearings and rings (I measured the ring gaps today and they're huge....) I hope I can get this thing right because I'm not enjoying rebuilding this motor every time I come home from a track day.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

Once you do get it right, you'll find that set-up's pretty reliable, a buddy of mine ran a set-up similar to yours, he raced for almost 3 full season without a bottom end problem.


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (ABA Scirocco)*

hope so


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

Man I gotta bump this back up, good use of an old speed secret, give thanks thanks to VWs Mr. PotatoHeadness!

Garth


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (g60vw)*

Got the rods back.....I had them resized. was going to slap it back together over the weekend but pulled one of th epistons out of the box from the machine shop and half a ring fell off. New rings on monday, motor will go back together monday or tuesday night.... and I'll beat the crap out of all the 16V boys next time on the track.


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## SpoonEngineering (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

kick some ass man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (SpoonEngineering)*

hey man it's me again, haven't had a chance to come down there and check your ride out. i see piston rod problem ehh ! does anyone know how we could get rid of that ?? i'm about to get my 16v buttom end in this week too. with my P&P head !


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (zero666cool)*

Talking to my machine shop, I think resizing the rods and installing ARP bolts is the key. You don't really see any problems if the engines haven't been opened up, just after a rebuild. I think that somehow the big end of the rod becomes distorted slightly and the rod bolts loose strength after being serviced. I've installed ARP bolts and also resized the rods, as well as adding a huge oil cooler. We'll see how things look after my next track event in January.


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

I am building the same motor essentially with a TT 288 cam, match ported head TT 13/4 in header bigger intake and ex valves titanium retainers CIS MS fuel dist Porsche 930 fuel pump and VR6 throttle body


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

whats a CIS MS fuel distributor?


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

VW Motorsport fuel dist and Audi 5k wur with Mercedes injectors and a Porsche 930 Fuel pump


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

too complicated for me....build it and I'll meet you at the track...$1 says mines faster.


_Modified by machschnelGTI at 7:51 AM 12-30-2004_


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

It might be


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

and then we'll drink


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

Will drink shots of Jager and Guiness







the same color as the Eurotrash Rabbit .














Orange


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

The motors going back together Saturday ...if anyone local (LA area) want to come hang out....I've got beer... give me a call 
310-947-7014


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

Got it all back together.... this time with ARP head studs, ARP rod bolts, resized the rods, decked the head, new rings, 160 degree T stat, and a bigass oil cooler. I hope the head studs will keep it bolted down so the cylinder pressure doesn't lift the damn head off the block this time. Wish me luck!


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

what about piston to valve clearance with a big cam? and if you wanted to lower the c/r a little like 12/1 could stack gaskets like some turbo guys do?


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (impulse byer)*

I have enough problems popping gaskets when they'r not stacked...


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## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

ouch all these bad news causes me not to do this on my daily driver !








hm... if i stack gaskets then they'll pop, if i don't then i can't afford the RACE GAS for daily driving !


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (zero666cool)*

The only reason to assemble an engine like this is because you can acheive 13:1 compression without buying a set of $500 pistons. As with any high compression engine, the headgasket will take some abuse. If you stack headgaskets to lower the compression, it defeats the whole purpose of building the motor in the first place. Just get a 10:1 motor and deck the block and head a bit, it'll probably get you up about 11:1 which is all you can safely use with pump gas. I think I've got the headgasket problem nipped with the ARP stud and 80ft/lbs of torque, and I hope I have the bottom end problem fixed because now that I'm not blowing all the water out of the motor, the oil will stay a lot cooler and I'll be able to maintain oil pressure.


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## ismellcinnamon (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

what is the compression in each cylinder? just curious.
eli


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (ismellcinnamon)*

It was over 220psi last time I checked it, but I just went through it and did new rings, rod bearings, and a head gasket, so I'm not really sure what it is now.


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## live2board87 (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (zero666cool)*

doesnt eip sell a metal, thcker headgasket? how pricey are these? do they work good?


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (live2board87)*

Just remember thicker head gaskets reduce compression


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## Digiracer (May 5, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

You say it's running lean on top. 
Is their a way to trigger the coldstart/5th injector? Trigger it with the WOT switch or a steering wheel mounted toggle. 
I'm no CIS expert, just an idea/suggestion.
nice job btw


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## Jetta2dr (Feb 19, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (Digiracer)*

Triggering the 5th injector is a bad way of increasing fuel, IMO. Its just designed for cold starts. The usual Fuel Enrichment Modules use the WOT switch to trigger a relay which increases the resistance of the ecu's CTS causing the ecu to think the engine is colder than it is and increases fuel. The thermo time switch is what controls the 5th injector, IIRC. I'm not sure, but I think that the FEM that I described only works with cis-e. Visit my website in my sig, in the tech section there is a circuit diagram for building an rpm sensative FEM.
How's the car running now that you have it back together with the new headgasket and arp stuffs? I have an 8v head apart right now that I plan on doing some p&p work on and unshrouding the valves. Then throw it on my extra 1.8l 16v block for some fun. Compression ratio would be a little lower due to the valve unshrouding, but still at least 12:1 I'd think (just a guess) which would be enough for some fun with a ported head and decent cam.


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (Jetta2dr)*

Now that I've got everything back together, it runs great. It will spin the front wheels at any speed if you put your foot down in first gear. I don't have any quarter mile times, but coming out of the bowl into the the chicanes at Streets of Willow, I was doing about 105 before I had to get out of it. I figured out the enrichment problem, the ground wire on my module had broken in the sheath. It pulls to 8000 no problem. Heres some pics of the car. Under the hood it looks like any other punk 8V, so no pics of that.







_Modified by machschnelGTI at 11:24 PM 1-22-2005_


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

I like the car very stealth. BTW how do you get it through emissions in CA


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machschnelGTI* »_Now that I've got everything back together, it runs great. It will spin the front wheels at any speed if you put your foot down in first gear. I don't have any quarter mile times, but coming out of the bowl into the the chicanes at Streets of Willow, I was doing about 105 before I had to get out of it. I figured out the enrichment problem, the ground wire on my module had broken in the sheath. It pulls to 8000 no problem. Heres some pics of the car. Under the hood it looks like any other punk 8V, so no pics of that.


So what did you end up doing, double stacking the headgaskets with the APR bolts or did you use EIP's thicker gasket or just get a head spacer? 







for a badass lookin car....love the sunroof!


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## jodiemeglio (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (JediKGB)*

is this also doable with a 1.8 bottom end??? if so what would the compression be??


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (jodiemeglio)*

This is a 1.8 16V bottom end. I'm using a stock head gasket with the ARP studs torqued to 80 ft/lbs. The stock gasket is a good design and will seal just fine so long as it crushes correctly when you install it. The stock head bolts stretched so I couldn't get enough clamping force out of them to hold the head down right. 
As far as CA emissions...I know people.


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

Anyone local who wants to see how it runs is free to come by and take it for a spin. Give me a call. 310-947-7014


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## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machschnelGTI* »_The only reason to assemble an engine like this is because you can acheive 13:1 compression without buying a set of $500 pistons. As with any high compression engine, the headgasket will take some abuse. If you stack headgaskets to lower the compression, it defeats the whole purpose of building the motor in the first place. Just get a 10:1 motor and deck the block and head a bit, it'll probably get you up about 11:1 which is all you can safely use with pump gas. I think I've got the headgasket problem nipped with the ARP stud and 80ft/lbs of torque, and I hope I have the bottom end problem fixed because now that I'm not blowing all the water out of the motor, the oil will stay a lot cooler and I'll be able to maintain oil pressure. 

yah that's what i was thinking. just shave my head and deck the block that i have. i have an extra complete 8v engine that i could mess with !








but i was thinking of doing a 16v 9a block swap for now cuz when i get enough $$ i could do 1.8T head with the block internals on the 16v block !







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jodiemeglio (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (zero666cool)*

are you running this on mechanical fuel injection??


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## CSDis4lovers (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (jodiemeglio)*

wouldnt a cis-e 16v ecu give your car more legs? Been told before swapping ecu's out of a 16v into an 8v with cis-e it would allow the engine to rev much higher.


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (tibz23)*

The 16V ECU didn't change the rev limit because the rev limit is controlled by the knock box RPM signal to the fuel pump relay. The 16V ECU seems to help the top end enrichment a bit but thats about it.


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

Here is a peice you should put on your motor. It is called an oil scraper made by Eurospec. It reduces the oil drag on the crank with out having to knife edge the crank about $60


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

I think that is designed to work with the bottom end girdle (sp?) Not sure if you can run that without it. Looking into it myself with my 16v...


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (Fast929)*

The eurospec one is designed to work with their girdle, this one's not and it's always on eBay for $49.95.


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurotrashrabbit* »_









that's kinda scary lookin....cuz if you dont have it aligned right part of it will break off....and i dunno how i feel about something "scraping" my crank when I rev to like 6grand.....


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (Fast929)*

They have 2 different designs one for a girdle one with out


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

I do like the one on ebay better than the one I have


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurotrashrabbit* »_I do like the one on ebay better than the one I have









It gets even cooler, for an extra C-note, the same guy sells ones with teflon sheeting applied, the teflon ones are zero-clearance i.e. you install them in contact with the rotating parts and when you start the engine, they bed themselves in giving you a final clearance of only a couple thou.


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (ABA Scirocco)*

That scares me to have it contact my crank and rods. How does it mount with 2 oil pan gaskets and do I have to specify engine size ?


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

It looks like you would have to use 2 pan gaskets, one on either side of the scraper. 
And there's a different one for each engine size, for details, the guy's got a website http://www.crank-scrapers.com


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (ABA Scirocco)*

Thanks for the info. Any one want a Eurospec oil scraper ? At a reduced price


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

Just bought the one off of Ebay very nice peice. Sealling is used with RTV


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

Whats wrong with a windage tray?? Crank scrapers are worth about 1-2% more horsepower. $100 for 3 horsepower isn't really worth it to me...


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

I have a windage tray also







BTW the crank scraper is only $50 


_Modified by eurotrashrabbit at 10:27 AM 2-13-2005_


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

not to be a hater....but I'm thinkin overkill....

but props to you for tryin it out....I really dont trust something commin that close to my crank..
anyways Im planin on havin my knife-edged anyways....so between that and a windage tray I should be all money.


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (JediKGB)*

This is an alternative to knife edging with removing material from the crank


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

Every little bit counts. Its all a matter of how much money you have/want to spend. ME....I'm cheap. If I can't make it or find it in a junkyard, I won't use it.


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

I hear that


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

OK guys, I've made the decision to move on and I bought another race car, so no need to keep working on this one. All it needs is a Cage and a quaife and its ready for the track. I'm looking for about $2700 for the car and a crapload of spares. Anyone interested???


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

What did you buy ? Why get rid of the hot rod 8v I hope you did not sell out and buy a 1.8T or a VR6


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

I bought one of the cars that our team used to race down in Mexico....a Suzuki Swift with the roof cut off (cuz it rolled a couple years back). 1.3L twin cam turbo motor. 278 hp at the wheels on 19lbs o' boost and it weighs a little over 1400 lbs. Came w/ three sets of rims and tires, brand new hoosiers on 2 sets, and a bunch of other goodies. It would take way to much time and money to make the dub perform like this car does so I had to make the switch.


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

I always liked the Suzuki Swift very good choice and they turn plenty of rpm's


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

I'll post some pictures when I get it...picking it up this weekend.


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## s3ri3s1 (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machschnelGTI* »_I'll post some pictures when I get it...picking it up this weekend.

pics?


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (s3ri3s1)*

Deal fell through.....the guy wanted to keep the turbo, manifold, clutch for spares for his other car....it would cost me another $1500 to buy the rest of the stuff.....and I'm out o' cash. So screw it, we'll make the A2 faster.


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (machschnelGTI)*

Killer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

sorry bout the deal falling thru...but lets see some dyno plots of this monster now!


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## JoebobVW (Jan 13, 2003)

What head studs are you using on that block the 8v or the 16v


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: (JoebobVW)*

8 V head studs


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## JoebobVW (Jan 13, 2003)

Cool thanks for the reply I'm dismanteling my 16v rabbit soon now I will have the bottom end for this setup


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (JoebobVW)*

what the difference between the 16v and the 8v studs? besides price.....


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## jodiemeglio (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: (JediKGB)*

length and 16v studs have a crazy countertwist thread after the standard thread


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (jodiemeglio)*

the 8V and 16V studs are the same I think, just like the head bolts. ARP offers an undercut and standard version, I fail to see the point of the undercut version.


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## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: 16V bottom end with JH head...got it running today!!! (eurotrashrabbit)*

I got a gun. I am hijacking this thread... I got euro CIS and audi 5k WUR. How much would those injectors help? +ODD


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## jodiemeglio (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: (machschnelGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *machschnelGTI* »_the 8V and 16V studs are the same I think, just like the head bolts. ARP offers an undercut and standard version, I fail to see the point of the undercut version.

they're definitely not the same i'll take some pics this weekend if i get motivated


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## JediKGB (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (jodiemeglio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jodiemeglio* »_they're definitely not the same i'll take some pics this weekend if i get motivated

please do because I'm basically doing the same engine, 9a block with a PF head and tryin to figure out which studs i need to buy


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (JediKGB)*

The thread diameter and pitch on the block is the same for both 8 and 16v blocks so, the studs you need to use depend SOLELY on the head you're using, an 8v head requires 8v head studs regardless of which block the head is being used on. And similarly, 16v heads require 16v studs even if it's being used on an 8v block.


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABA Scirocco* »_The thread diameter and pitch on the block is the same for both 8 and 16v blocks so, the studs you need to use depend SOLELY on the head you're using, an 8v head requires 8v head studs regardless of which block the head is being used on. And similarly, 16v heads require 16v studs even if it's being used on an 8v block.

makes sense http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (machschnelGTI)*

hijack time. I got a question. I have 16v euro cis basic on my 8v. I heard it is supposed to offer more fueling at highr RPM. anybody used it before? I jsut put it in, and noticed the engine runs smoother, and revs more free, but no trans in car, so no go..







When my car is running, would like to see some of these cars you guys are taling about.. +ODD


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## eurotrashrabbit (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: (fast84gti)*

I have it the VWMS injection on my 11.5:1 2.0L







8v


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (eurotrashrabbit)*

pictures in a couple days, my car is currently covered in bird **** so I gotta wash it up first


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## jodiemeglio (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABA Scirocco* »_The thread diameter and pitch on the block is the same for both 8 and 16v blocks so, the studs you need to use depend SOLELY on the head you're using, an 8v head requires 8v head studs regardless of which block the head is being used on. And similarly, 16v heads require 16v studs even if it's being used on an 8v block.

he's right.
16v is on the left notice the length and obviously 8v on the right


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## machschnelGTI (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (jodiemeglio)*

Thats interesing....I've never actually seen a 16V head bolt....I shipped both my 16Vs to the scrap yard out of utter frustration long before the heads needed to come off I guess.


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