# Beetle Turbo over GTI? Why?



## spongebob_squarepants (Jul 4, 2001)

I really like the look of the Beetle, and from what I'm seeing locally, Turbos are available for quite a bit less money than comparably equipped GTI's. 

I don't know if the Beetles are significantly less expensive because sales are slow, but it makes it tempting to give the Beetle a try. 

That said, I've read reviews that say the GTI is still quite a bit more capable in terms of handling. 

The Edmunds review surprised me when it said the Turbo didn't really handle any better than the 2.5L. How can that be when the Turbo has sport suspension?  

And all the talk here about issues with windows, headliner and fit/finish type issues also make me hesitate to roll the dice on a Beetle. 

What are some good reasons to go with a Beetle Turbo over a GTI? Or is style really the only one?


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## tonytalksalot (Oct 30, 2011)

I traded this... 
photo_2 (3) by tonytalksalot, on Flickr. For this 
29461b5ab01e11e180d51231380fcd7e_7 by tonytalksalot, on Flickr


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## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I traded my GTI for a 2.5L Beetle. I have driven the turbo Beetles quite a lot, but Tony could chime in the big differences in handling, steering, etc. 

The Turbo Beetle just has more character than the GTI and looks better IMO. The GTI's interior materials are of a higher quality, but the Beetle has a better design.


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## GTarr (May 17, 2012)

I've never driven a GTI, but I think my Turbo Beetle w/ sport suspension handles really well. (Note, as far as I understand, not all Turbos have sport suspension, some have "comfort" suspension. I believe all the "Launch Edition" models did have sport suspension. After that, it's kind of a crap shoot whether you get "comfort" or "sport", though the 19" wheels option does force "sport". Oh, and nobody really knows what the difference between "comfort" and "sport" is, so maybe take the whole thing with a grain of salt!) Edmunds saying the Turbo didn't handle better than the 2.5L does surprise me, though, because it's a completely different rear suspension! However, all that aside, from what I've read, VW detuned even the "sport" suspension a bit from the GTI, in terms of stiffness of components (bushings etc). Probably to preserve the image of the GTI as the "sportiest" car in the stable. But anyways, when it comes down to it, yes, I bought my Turbo Beetle over a GTI because of - style. 

GTarr


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## vdub10golf (Jan 23, 2010)

I didn't have the GTI, but I traded in my MK6 Golf for my Turbo. Certain bits and pieces like the soft-touch dash are gone, but it makes up for it with all the other goodies. The main thing for me was the styling, I grew up around my dads handfuls of old bugs and buses and I really liked the way this one looked.


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## IHC (Aug 15, 2011)

The beetle looks like no other car on the road. The rest of the VW line looks like every other Korean or Japanese econo box. By the way the 2.5 handles very well , turbo must be better yet. Beetle also resembles the classic Porsche 356 to some degree.


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

Can you post the actual text from Edmunds? 

I like both the GTI and the B12 Turbo. If I were to buy the B12 Turbo, it would be due to styling. Now if practicality is the issue, the GTI beats the B12 hands down. IMO, the B12 has better interior styling while the GTI has better material quality. 

As for handling, given similar spring/shock rates, the IRS provides better ride comfort over uneven surface as it separates the uneven suspension travel of one rear wheel from another - this is something a twist beam axle can't do. However, on a smooth track/road surface, a twist beam suspension is actually quite capable. But comfort takes a hit when the rear wheels go over uneven surface. As suspension travel of one side over a bump or down a pot hole while the other stays flat, the motion disturbs both wheels and in turn the chassis. As the rear wheels go over a bump, the twist beam axle moves up and inward towards the center of the chassis, causing a kickback or jolt in the longitudinal plane. 

FWIW, you can easily improve the handling of the 2.5L with after-market products like springs, dampers and sway-bars. Personally, I think VW is ripping off its customers by using the twist beam axle on the 2.5L B12 while the German assembled (base) Golf gets the IRS. German labor cost has to be ~3x higher than Pueblo.


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## GTarr (May 17, 2012)

> Beetle also resembles the classic Porsche 356 to some degree.


 Indeed, that's the "style" that I was talking about.  When I first saw an ad in the newspaper for the 2012 Beetle (back in Feb), I didn't recognize it as a Beetle at first. I went "hey, that looks a bit like an old 911 or 356." Then I saw that it was the new Beetle and thought "oh, yeah, that makes sense". Little did I know that my Maxima would be rusting apart 3 months later and I'd end up buying one! (RIP - 99 Max) 

GTarr


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## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

Cadenza_7o said:


> Can you post the actual text from Edmunds?
> 
> I like both the GTI and the B12 Turbo. If I were to buy the B12 Turbo, it would be due to styling. Now if practicality is the issue, the GTI beats the B12 hands down. IMO, the B12 has better interior styling while the GTI has better material quality.
> 
> ...


 Iirc the twist beam saves some weight and it makes the bean counters happy. I am used to mustangs so it doesn't matter to me.


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## walery (Nov 16, 2006)

On the trip to wuste i had 4 people in the beetle for parts, ( out of 12 cars probably half didn't have AC), the people who rode in the car said the back seat had more room than a gti. And lets be honest are you planning to leave the car stock height? cause if not the GTI and Beetle should handle about the same once you put your choice of lowering medium under the car.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Porsche 356 DNA aside, for it definitely has it, my Turbo Beetle has been driven by both 
an owner of a GTI and a Golf R. Both were impressed with all aspects concerning performance 
but keep in mind that I have done the following upgrades: 
APR Stage II, including the ECU being flashed up to 250+ hp and 297 torque, the Carbonio 
Intake and Backpipe, APR's Downpipe Exhaust and their short-shifter for my six-speed. 
Have also added brass 'replacement' bushings made 'in house' by 'TyrolSport' for both the 
front calipers and the short shifter. Replaced rubber brake hoses with braided steel ones. 
Since my car does have the factory sport suspension I concentrated on areas to reduce the 
'wheel hop' that was there even before I had the ECU upgrade. These included swapping out 
the upper motor mount with the stiffer one from a Golf R, adding HPA's 75 durometer 'Dog Bone' 
mount, as well as 75 durometer upgrades to both the front-lower-control arm bushings and 
those on the rear-trailing-arms also. Car now stays more firmly planted on acceleration at 
250+ hp & 297 torque than it did at 200 hp & 207 torque. Also added the APR intercooler 
since it has almost '3 times the capacity' as the OEM one. This should vastly reduce the loss 
of power (soaking) that comes with the hot, humid weather. Only other upgrade I'm planning 
is to add an oil cooler. Turbo cars run extremely hot and though considered normal by the 
manufacturer, I would much prefer a lower normal running temperature. As soon as TyrolSport 
comes up with the proper size oil filter sndwich with a thermo contol built in, I will have them 
install a Mocal oil cooler.


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## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

walery said:


> On the trip to wuste i had 4 people in the beetle for parts, ( out of 12 cars probably half didn't have AC), the people who rode in the car said the back seat had more room than a gti. And lets be honest are you planning to leave the car stock height? cause if not the GTI and Beetle should handle about the same once you put your choice of lowering medium under the car.


 The GTI/ Golf has more rear leg room than the Beetle. 

I have both sitting in my garage.


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## domdil (May 19, 2008)

I have a 2012 GTI lowered on H&R sport springs on 18" wheels. I work at a VW dealership so I have been driving our Beetle Turbo demo car. Its lowered on H&R sport springs as well but with 20" Wheels so I have a good feel for both cars. 

In my opinion, as they both stand, the Beetle handles better, it feels more planted and is just more fun to plow into corners with. 
Where the GTI far exceeds the Beetle is the interior and fit and finish. The GTI uses soft touch materials EVERYWHERE on the inside, the seats are nicer, and is just overal a more comfortable car to drive. Thats where the extra price factors in, not to mention the Beetle is built in Mexico whereas the GTI is built in Germany. 

It all comes down to what you want. The Beetle turns more heads and has the cool factor, whereas the GTI is all around a better car.


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## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

*Beetle Turbo Base 6MT* 

DRIVE TRAIN 
Drive train Front wheel drive 
1st Gear 3.77 
2nd Gear 2.09 
3rd Gear 1.32 
4th Gear 0.98 
5th Gear 0.98 
6th Gear 0.81 
Reverse 4.55 
Final I 3.94 
Final II 3.09 

DIMENSIONS 
Wheelbase 99.9 in. 
Front Track 61.8 in. 
Rear Track 60.9 in. 
Length 168.4 in. 
Width 71.2 in. 
Height 58.5 in. 
Ground Clearance 5.7 in. 
WEIGHTS 
Curb Weight 3042 lbs 
Payload 831 lbs 
FUEL CONSUMPTION** 
City mpg 21 mpg 
Highway mpg 30 mpg 
PERFORMANCE 
0-60 mph 6.8 seconds 

*GTI Base 2 Door 6MT* 

DRIVETRAIN 
Drivetrain Front wheel drive 
Transmission Type Manual 
1st Gear 3.36 
2nd Gear 2.09 
3rd Gear 1.47 
4th Gear 1.10 
5th Gear 1.11 
6th Gear 0.93 
Reverse 3.99 
Final I 3.94 
Final II 3.09 

DIMENSIONS 
Wheelbase 101.5 in 
Front Track 60.4 in 
Rear Track 59.7 in 
Length 165.9 in 
Width 70.0 in 
Height 57.8 in 
Ground Clearance 5.0 in 
WEIGHTS 
Curb Weight 3034 lb 
GVWR 4256 lb 
Payload 1076 lb 
FUEL CONSUMPTION** 
City mpg 21 
Highway mpg 31


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## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

It appears like the Beetle Turbo 6MT has different gearing than the GTI 6MT. 

Also the GTI has a slightly longer wheel base and is shorter over-all. The Beetle is about 10 lbs heavier. < Moot. 

The Base Beetle is lighter than the Base Golf though. 

The Beetle has a wider track than the GTI, and can have a wider overall track than the GTI with wider wheels and tires. 

In theory it looks like the Beetle should have better handling characteristics than the GTI. 

WB 99.9 101.5 *GTI 1.6" longer wheel base (wheels/ tires)* 
FT 61.8 60.4 *Beetle 1.4" wider front track (wheels/ tires)* 
RT 60.9 59.7 *Beetle 1.2" wider rear track (wheels/ tires)* 
L 168.4 165.9 *Beetle 2.5" longer (Body)* 
W 71.2 70 *Beetle 1.2" wider (Body)* 
H 58.5 57.8 *Beetle 0.7" taller* 
GC 5.7 5 *Beetle 0.7" more ground clearance* 
GVW 3042 3034 *Beetle 8 lbs heavier*


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## walery (Nov 16, 2006)

According to Vw's comparison tool the beetle has a longer stroke and smaller bore but that may be just a typo, as Ihought they both had the same engine in them. 

And you are right on the room in the back seat, maybe they were just sucking up so they could stay in the AC.


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## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

walery said:


> According to Vw's comparison tool the beetle has a longer stroke and smaller bore but that may be just a typo, as Ihought they both had the same engine in them.
> 
> And you are right on the room in the back seat, maybe they were just sucking up so they could stay in the AC.


 That is odd. Also I just noticed that VW does not change the weight listed on their site in-between the different trims. 

The gearing is different though, which is really odd. I wonder if the stroke and bore is different? It might be.


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## VWNDAHS (Jun 20, 2002)

spongebob_squarepants said:


> I
> What are some good reasons to go with a Beetle Turbo over a GTI? Or is style really the only one?


 I've got an .:R32 and MkV GTI. I have a loaded beetle turbo on order. Here's the reasons: 

1) First and foremost interior. The interior is vw's best, period. It apes the TT and brings a ton of delightful fit and finish enhancements neither of my MkV's or the MkVI share, dedicated starter button that's not an afterthought blank, gauge cluster, subtle changes to the blank array in the dash, contrasting seat colors (mine will be red/black) everything. 

2) Exterior, it's a looker, especially in 19" Turbo trim with LEDs. It's hot and I'll buy another if the Beetle R VW teased us with behind closed doors at a race track comes to fruition. 

3) Handling, as stated it has the widest tires and widest track of the MkVIs and you can tell when you drive them back to back, especially in the back country roads right outside the dealership i visited 

4) It's not a primary car. If it was my primary I'd need to do some thinking, there's something about the versatility of the golf and the ability to shove anything in the back. The Beetle has a ton of space with the rear seats down but doesn't quite reach GTI/.:R levels. 

If you're considering a GTI, drive it back to back with the beetle, the differences in handling and performance are almost indistinguishable really but the interior fit and finish, attention to detail, etc, easily eclipse anything in the VW range and begin to broach tt levels of delight.


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## oidoglr (Jan 26, 2009)

I was super excited about the Turbo Beetle when it came out. If the fully-loaded model with dash gauges and HIDs would've shipped sooner, I might have pulled the trigger on one. It's a beautiful car, and drives nicely. I'll say this though, it didn't seem as _nice_ dollar-for-dollar as a GTI. 

I ended up buying a 2008 R32 with really low miles that I love. I could see myself switching to a blue fully-loaded Beetle in a few years if a nice example floats by.


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## TornadrotGTI (Apr 22, 2005)

I DD a Golf R and have been driving GTIs long before that. Im convinced that if our Beetle's "sport" suspension was a little stiffer and allowed less body roll, it would out handle a stock GTI. The wider track makes a noticeable difference compared to the GTI, and if it allowed me to shut off traction control, I'd never care for a GTI again. Compared to the R, it's much easier to be a hooligan in the Beetle. The R needs much higher corner entry speeds and commitment to con it into losing traction and I'm just not in Jason Statham mode most of the time. On the other hand, the Beetle's tail just comes out swinging like its got something to prove. Hard to drive it without a smile on your face :laugh:


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