# Different part specification for replacement Air Springs (Shock Absorbers)



## jaredturner11 (Sep 21, 2007)

*Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair*

I have a 2004 VW Phaeton W12. I recently had my warranty expire (two months ago). Before the warranty expired, I purchased an extended warranty.
Last week I had the car parked at work, when I got in the car to go home, I turned on the car and immediately heard a loud hissing sound. The entire front end of the car dropped to the ground.
I had the car towed to the VW dealership and they told me that the front ride shock was leaking air and needed to be replaced. They informed me that VW no longer makes that shock and that I would have to purchase a newer version that runs $1,750.00! I was then informed that the newer shock would not work with the other shocks in the air suspension system and that I would have to replace all the shocks and the monitering system at the total cost of $10,000.00!!
My extended warranty would not cover it because shocks are considered a "wear & tear" part (like brakes)
I called the Phaeton customer service and had them look into making an exception and covering the service even though the orginal warranty had expired.
It took a day or so, but VW came back and said that there was nothing they could do.
I would love some advice from anyone, I would love to find the part used and install the old shock.
I would really love to see if someone knew how to get this covered under some type of Lemon law or car defect scenario.
Thanks


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## ramtor (Jan 1, 2006)

Sorry to hear that.
In my previous experience phaeton/touareg-v10 customer care proven to be useful only to make an appointment with dealership and get $30-a-day rental car. Its function now is only to look after "legal considerations” and reduce bad standing. Only our hi-flying/germany-connected forum members able to get real backing with issues.
I would suggest to try get in touch with the VW corporate USA, or if useless with headquarters’ in Germany.
Another option is to consult an attorney.


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## Phat Cat (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: (ramtor)*

I thought car manufacturers were required to keep parts available for several years after a car was no longer sold in this country.


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## crvtt (Apr 9, 2007)

Really can't see how this could be an attorney or lemon law issue. It's out of warranty, you own the car. At some point you have to accept that you own the car, not VW. Hmm, sue them for not covering something that's not under warranty?
That being said, try http://www.car-part.com and see what you come up with. 


_Modified by crvtt at 10:21 AM 9-22-2007_


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## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: (crvtt)*

I believe he had purchased an extended warranty before his regular one expired. If it was a problem after all warranty's had expired of course he would not have any coverage. I know I purchased the extended warranty from my dealer when I got my car so I am expecting everything to be covered until 2010 or 74,000 miles.


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## crvtt (Apr 9, 2007)

If you expect everything to be covered with an extended warranty you're in for a surprise. Sorry, but I'm speaking from experience. I've NEVER seen a bumper to bumper extended warranty. For example a Certified Pre Owned BMW doesn't cover the thermostat as it's considered a wear item. Many warranties do not cover audio systems, navigation, headlamps, trim pieces etc. 


_Modified by crvtt at 10:46 AM 9-22-2007_


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## uk_nick (Mar 31, 2006)

You have to wonder: if failure of the air suspension on the Phaeton isn't covered by the extended warranty because it's "wear and tear" then what exactly will be covered ? Not the engine, or the automatic box, or the ABS system, or the seat motors or climate control motors or........


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (uk_nick)*

The VW extended warranty clearly shows what is covered and what is not covered. Shocks are not covered. However, having had this same suspension problem myself (and covered under warranty prior to 50,000 miles), I inquired whether or not the Platinum level of the VW extended warranty would cover the same repair. I was told the repair would be covered by the extended warranty because they are not "shocks" in the normal sense of the word. They are air struts which comprise an air suspension system, which is covered under the extended warranty; at least, this is what my dealer representatives told me before I signed on. I would be sorely disappointed if this were not the case if my air struts were to fail me now. I would re-inquire about the definition of "shocks" versus "struts" (or similar) with VWoA or your dealer.
A question for you that is unclear here: Is this a VW extended warranty you are dealing with? What level of warranty?
Logan.



_Modified by stjarna at 1:06 PM 9-22-2007_


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (stjarna)*

Don't confuse the VW Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) warranty (to 7yrs/74k miles) with the VW extended warranty (usually 100k miles?). I would think the two coverages are different.


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (jaredturner11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jaredturner11* »_They informed me that VW no longer makes that shock and that I would have to purchase a newer version that runs $1,750.00!

I was under the impression they are required by law to offer parts for your car for 10 years.
In this case, it looks like a substitution: they are asking you to spend $10K by using a later model's parts.
Is this allowed under the law?


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## crvtt (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm guessing the part is still technically available albeit in a new design. Maybe there was a problem with the first round of them so they were redesigned. I had a car in which the hood strust kept going bad, they eventually redesigned them with a new part number. I'm guessing so long as the part fits the intended use they wouldn't have to still produce the old stock of faulty parts.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (ramtor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ramtor* »_...Only our hi-flying/germany-connected forum members able to get real backing with issues...

*Dima:*
Please, check your attitude at the door when you come and visit this forum. Well over 99% of the time I have spent talking to VW either in Germany or in Auburn Hills has been on behalf of other owners, not for my own benefit. My Phaeton has been reasonably trouble-free, and besides, when it needs service or repair, I do the work myself. Although I cannot speak for other forum members, I think it is a pretty safe bet that most Phaeton owners have been pretty satisfied with the support that VW has provided us with. Probably one of the most important reasons why VW has been so helpful to all of us in the past is that we don't come to the forum with a chip on our shoulder... please browse through the collective efforts of all of us over the past 3 years, and you will see what I mean.
*Jared:*
Welcome to the forum - I see that this message is your first post here. It goes without saying that I am sorry to hear that your shock absorber (or air strut, or whatever) failed.
To the best of my knowledge, only one other forum member has had a shock absorber fail, and that was within the warranty period. He also reported the same issue of the original part no longer being in production, and consequently all of the air shocks needing to be replaced. Fortunately, the warranty covered it.
I have got to admit that I am quite perplexed by this whole issue of "previous version air shocks not being available". Somehow, this just doesn't sound right to me. What I mean by this is that it is very un-Volkswagen like to not stock prior versions of a part when a part is superseded by a newer design. Heck, they stock literally dozens of different versions of instrument clusters, radios, transmissions, etc., all of which are about equal in cost to a Phaeton air shock.
I've posted some excerpts from both the North American and the ROW (Rest of World) parts catalogs below. As you can see in the first image, the North American parts catalog only lists two versions (suffix numbers) of air shocks - suffix *S* for the W12 and suffix *T* for the V8.
The ROW parts catalog lists a whole bunch of different suffixes. We do have to disregard parts for Phaetons with build configurations not offered in North America (for example, FWD only, V6 diesel, V6 gasoline, V10 diesel), but even after setting aside those parts, you can see that there is a suffix *L* shock absorber sold for model year 2003 W12s up to VINs ending at 003750, and a suffix *N* for 2003 W12s from VINs ending at 003751 through to 006000. In other words, superseded versions of air shock absorbers are available in Europe.
That doesn't suggest that a European part would be suitable for a North American car, though, because the European W12s are capable of much higher top speeds than the NAR ones, and we know that there are other significant differences in the front end - the brake components being one example. It does suggest that it should be possible to get a superseded part.
Let me make some inquires with our 'forum friends' at VW and see if I can dig up some additional information about this. I kind of suspect that there might be an error - an omission - in the parts catalog. This has happened once before - we had difficulty getting W12 front windshields due to the correct part being accidentally omitted from a catalog update. VW fixed that error when we brought it to their attention. There are only about 500 W12 Phaetons in all of North America, because of this, it's usually us (the enthusiasts) who catch the little snags first.
In the meantime, Jared, would you please contact your VW dealer and ask them to provide you with the exact part number from the air shock that is on your car (the defective one), then post that part number here? That would help. May I also suggest that you consider having your dealer search salvage yard inventory, the idea being that perhaps you could scarf a replacement air shock from a W12 that has been taken off the road? I know of several very low mileage W12s that have been scrapped as a result of what most people would think was pretty minor damage to the front end (the engine). Even if we do manage to get an exact replacement new shock absorber from VW, you might prefer to purchase and install a salvaged one, just because of the cost saving on the part.
Michael
*Parts Catalog (North America) - Air Springs*








*Parts Catalog (Europe) - Air Springs*








*Air Spring on my 2004 W12*
_I had the engine out earlier this summer, but didn't think to take a close-up picture of the air shock - this is the best photo I have._


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

It all really makes you wonder. Maybe you can buy a old style shock from a Junk yard.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (Itzmann)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Itzmann* »_I was under the impression they are required by law to offer parts for your car for 10 years. In this case, it looks like a substitution: they are asking you to spend $10K by using a later model's parts. Is this allowed under the law? 

Francisco:
I'm almost certain that this is a parts catalog problem, that the required air shock is still available, but for some reason it is not listed in the NAR parts catalog.
As I mentioned in my reply to Jared above, VW stocks superseded parts for every other component on the Phaeton (and, for that matter, all their other products). It just doesn't seem right that an air shock, which could reasonably be expected to be a consumable part, cannot be sourced.
I've put a few feelers out and hope to get some more information soon.
Michael


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## ItsabigVW (Jan 3, 2007)

I personally would push for a redefinition of the part concerned. It is a lot more than a traditional shock absorber. 
Insurance companies tend to err on the side of not paying out unless you can put up a good reasoned argument. 
I know the warranty situation is very different in the NAR compared to us the in the ROW. However, the VW extended warranty here(after original 3 years/60k miles factory cover) certainly seems to cover this situation.
Suspension
All parts including self-leveling system: wheel bearings; switchgear; ECU and relay; hydraulic pumps and valves 
So I would keep at them and not give up.
Peter


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (ItsabigVW)*

Peter is right -- do NOT give up on this one!
Logan.


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## VWK (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (jaredturner11)*

Jared,
I'm a Parts Specialist with VWoA, and I'd like to assist, if I may. I sent you a PM. 
-Ken


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## kgclark75 (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (VWK)*

Could this, by chance, be the part you're looking for?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem


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## jaredturner11 (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (VWK)*

Ken,
How can I get a hold of you?


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## jaredturner11 (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael
Thank you so much for your help, I contacted my Dealership and they gave me the part #3d0-616-040-Q
Again, thanks for you help. For that matter, I would like to thank everyone in the Forum. I have been so impressed with the response to my post.
cheers


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## VWK (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (jaredturner11)*

[email protected]


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (VWK)*

*Ken:*
Thanks ever so much for helping us all out - it is really nice to know that VW is behind us whenever we need to "throw up a flare" for assistance. We hope you will always feel welcome to come back and ask us for help if we can ever return the favour.
*Jared:*
Glad to hear it is all under control now.
Michael


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## kgclark75 (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_*Ken:*
Thanks ever so much for helping us all out - it is really nice to know that VW is behind us whenever we need to "throw up a flare" for assistance. We hope you will always feel welcome to come back and ask us for help if we can ever return the favour.
*Jared:*
Glad to hear it is all under control now.
Michael


What was the final resolution?


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (kgclark75)*

Yes. I am not clear on how the issue was solved. Thanks.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (Itzmann)*

It appears to me that Mr. Edwards, one of the parts specialists at VW of America, was able to procure the original part, but I am not certain of this. I have asked for clarification, just in case the question arises in the future.
Michael


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## VWK (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (PanEuropean)*

I'd love to take credit for procuring a strut for Jared, but unfortunately, I did not. The ETKA catalog is clear that for a replacement, you must obtain the other struts and a control unit. There is some German text in EPIS that confirms this. I checked for stock of the original part number 3D0616040Q, but Germany no longer stocks it. I also checked PartsVoice, but no stock could be found at US or Canadian dealers. Basically, I could find no way to "save the day" with a new, VW direct replacement. --Ken


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (VWK)*

Oh. That is unfortunate.
I hope that VW will be able to come up with a solution for this that will enable us to order the parts one-off. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are still working on it until I hear otherwise. In the meantime, it sounds like getting an extended warranty that unambiguously covers the air suspension system will be necessary.
Michael


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## uk_nick (Mar 31, 2006)

I'm wondering why VW insist on 4 revised struts being fitted rather than 1 original design one ? If the revision was to rectify a material design fault, it seems unfair that the vehicle owner gets clobbered for the resulting huge bill.


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## VWK (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (PanEuropean)*

I assure you though, I'm not done searching for a solution.


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
A couple of other aspects to bear in mind:
1) It would be nice to know from which model year and VIN Dresden started installing the modified suspension system., i.e. which cars are potentially affected and which are not.
2) What are the actual differences between the new and old parts. Since the Phaeton suspension is really a system, I can think of several scenarios, such as:
A) the new parts are improved mechanically (in order to avoid premature failure, for example) and modified to interface with a new control unit. Under this scenario, the new "struts" are physically, electrically or electronically incompatible with the old control unit, hence the need to change all four.
B) the new parts are improved as in A above, but, at the same time but not for the same reason, the control unit is revised (perhaps in the firm ware) to improve ride, safety or both. At this point VW, in their continuing effort to improve the product, decides to mandate the replacement of the control unit. This in turn necessitates the replacement of the three remaining non defective units because the improvements offered new firm or soft ware would not work with the old struts.
Under scenario B above, replacing only one unit remains possible but not recommended.  Under this scenario, if the car were mine and the repair were indeed not covered by warranty, I would be very tempted to replace only the defective strut and its twin on the other side of the same axle (front or rear), and forgo replacing the remaining two struts and the control unit. I could always replace the remaining parts later if step one is not satisfactory. By the way, the reason I would replace two, and not just the defective one, is in order not to affect the dynamic characteristic of the axle, in much the same way that I would not mix and match different tires.
Stefano


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uk_nick)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uk_nick* »_I'm wondering why VW insist on 4 revised struts being fitted rather than 1 original design one...

Nick:
I'm still betting that what we have here is just a parts distribution problem, not any kind of deliberate decision on the part of VW that would cause owners - or, for that matter, the VW new vehicle warranty account - to need to replace 4 air shocks when only 1 is defective.
So, let's hold on tight for a bit until our friends at VW get a chance to check this out. My usual source in Dresden was on holidays this past week - hopefully I will get some info from Dresden this coming week.
It is very significant that this problem has not been mentioned on the German language forum - this is why I suspect it is a distribution / logistics issue related to getting the original design part in North America, nothing more.
Michael


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## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

The Voleeswagen RealDriver plan states that
For front and rear suspension the "electronic levelcontrol components including the pump, accumulator, lines and bags" are covered by the Gold Plus and Platinum Coverage plan.
The exclusions include the shock absorber.
It seems to me that when the car drops down and won't raise up that there is a problem with the electronic level control components, not the shock absorber.
If the shock absorber and the leveling control components are one and the same then how can the leveling control component be covered and the shock absorber not covered?
Would someone please explain this. If the end result is that the electronic level control components are not covered then I'm going to request refunds on both my "Volkeswagen RealDriver" coverage service contract, and find an aftermarket plan that does cover the suspension.
VWK, just wanted to thank you for your efforts.
It's nice to have your support. If possible would you move this up the VW corporate flagpole and see if VW of America could help resolve this, after all members of this Forum are most likely the market basis to consider when reintroducing the "Phaeton"
Both of my Phaeton's have been problem free and I wouldn't trade them for any other car on the road-but a $10,000 suspension bill would change that for sure.


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## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

For clarification, when did the part change, and what cars came with the new part?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (petermueller)*

It seems that the 2004 cars have the Q suffix shock absorber, but that is just anecdotal.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Folks:
Just an update here, we now have 'forum friends' on both sides of the Atlantic looking into this shock absorber question for us. As soon as I get any solid information to share, I'll post it.
Michael


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Jared,
I think I saw your car this week. Is Brent looking after it? 
FWIW - I've done some digging with my sources and have not been able to come up with anything yet. I am still looking, so hopefully enough eyes on the issue will find a solution...
~Rich


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

I have not yet got all the answers back concerning the air shock replacement issue, but based on what I know so far, it appears that there was a vendor change at the same time that the original air shocks were superseded by the newer part number.
Long time forum members may recall that at around the time the MY 2005 Phaeton was introduced, the part number suffix on the suspension controller (controller 34) incremented from A to B. This is the indication that the 'new vendor' air shock absorbers are present on a Phaeton.
Hopefully I will get some more information in the coming week.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (jimay)*

Jim:
VW is working on the issue now, in response to our request. Let's just keep our powder dry until they get their work done and can get back to us. Their past track record for Phaeton support has been pretty good.
Michael


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## Green-T (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (PanEuropean)*

Michael: I appreciate your glass half full attitude, I have to agree with Jim on this. I posted my opinion on this on the Touareg forum.
I the mean time while VW is working on this is Jarred without his car?
Did VW step up and give him a Phaeton to drive.
As you should know any time the equipment is sitting in the shop money is being lost.
Sounds like poor planning with the change of a vendor.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (Green-T)*

Brett,
In all honesty, it's not so much of a "glass half-full" attitude as it is a "no drama llama" attitude. 
We don't want an environment here which has someone convicted before the jury's even come back from deliberation. We try to leave the witch-hunts to TCL and the MkV Forums.


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

But he needs a decent car to drive while the paperwork sits on someone desk, don't you think? It has been 2.5 weeks now. Maybe he should rent a vehicle and charge it to them when the issure is resolved, either by supplying a compatable part regardless of if it is a VW charge or a warranty. It's not a simple shock absorber, it is a main suspension system component just like a failed axel or spring not a wear and tear item, regardless of the part required. Well that my opinion and I know now, so don't bother to tell me no one cares what I think.










_Modified by GripperDon at 2:58 PM 10-10-2007_


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

I stopped in to check on Jared's car today and got some backstory and an update in the process. Hopefully he will post up the latest installment...


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

Anecdotal update:
While at my dealer recently, my service adviser said that ever since I brought my W12 into their service bay with the suspension failure (I had a dealer-supplied courtesy Passat for over six weeks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) and had all four corners replaced by VWoA under warranty http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , the dealer had received "8 or 9" more Phaetons with the same suspension failures and replacements http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . This must be a recurring problem throughout Phaetonland of which VWoA is well aware http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
So, if you own a Phaeton and have not yet experienced a suspension failure, you should be paying attention to how VWoA and/or the RealDriver warranty administrator deal with this issue. Odds are you may one day be affected http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif . With fingertips on our keyboards, let's all hold hands virtually and pray that the corporate executives involved will be overcome with feelings of love and joy and will soon make a favorable pronouncement to the benefit of all Phaeton owners in North America. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Logan.



_Modified by stjarna at 12:00 AM 10-12-2007_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (stjarna)*

You thinking a suspension recall? 
Also, what should be the "thinking" about lowering 2004 suspensions via VAG-COM? Continue the practice or reverse the current wisdom? 
The tech returned mine to stock, without telling me, when it was in for an alignment - I guess he did me a favor.


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## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Where are the data?*

Has anyone compiled the failure data for this problem?
For example, the Model Year, engine type, which corner failed, had the car been lowered, etc.?
Is one MY or engine type more prone to failure than others?
Might be interesting ...
HTH


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Do you suppose that simply re-elevating (raising) the car back to stock height in itself realigned the car?


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Okay Phaetonisti – I have some news about this whole suspension compatibility issue. I recently spoke with Phaeton Customer Care and have some information to relay.
AT PRESENT, Volkswagen will, on a case-by-case basis, evaluate replacing non-failed components (this means struts and controller) which require replacement as a result of a failed strut. 
What this means is this: You (or your extended warranty) are responsible for the cost and labor for the replacement of the failed component(s). VW will evaluate the rest, on a case-by-case basis.
So, should it come to pass you find your Phaeton out from under a VW warranty (factory or CPO) and a strut replacement is required, make a pleasant telephone call to your ever-courteous and ever-helpful Phaeton Customer Care Representative and they will start the ball rolling.
It is my understanding that a more formalized process is in the works. For the time being, however, this procedure is how this issue is to be handled.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Hi Chris:
Thanks very much for the update, much appreciated.
Michael


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## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*add me to the list.....*

I went to my car this morning to go on a short drive and noticed that my car was sitting lower than normal. I get into the vehicle and start it and get an error code that says that it is not safe to drive due to the ride height and will not adjust. 
Needless to say, the car is at the service department now and I cannot seem to find the air suspension thread that had been started a few weeks ago. Any moderators out there to help me through this time?


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: add me to the list..... (paulkountz)*

Paul -
Important question for you -- are you under 50,000 miles or above it?
If you are above 50,000 miles, do you have an extended warranty in force?


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## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: add me to the list..... (stjarna)*

I am at 33k but the car is a CPO and the factory warranty expires November 2008.


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: add me to the list..... (paulkountz)*

Whew!
You should be fine then.
The only drag on this repair is the time it might take to get the four struts and the new controller in auf Deutschland. Mine was about four weeks, IIRC.
Logan.


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## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: add me to the list..... (stjarna)*

wow, ok...I feel sorry for the dealer because I am driving from SC to NJ and back for christmas!


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## mkerr (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: add me to the list..... (paulkountz)*

Friend, I had this happen myself. DO NOT DRIVE THE FREAKING CAR. On american roads, you will likely rip up lots of espensive plastic retaining covers and whatnot and I'd be concerned about having to cover those myself. If your air suspension is shot, you are riding really, really low. Have it towed.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: add me to the list..... (mkerr)*

I hope he was talking about the dealers loaner car!


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## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: add me to the list..... (Paldi)*

haha, yes I was speaking about the dealer's car...it is an 08 Jetta and I am not too thrilled about driving it aside from the fact that I am putting miles on their car and not my Phaeton


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## Spectral (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: add me to the list..... (paulkountz)*

Paul-
here is the thread you are looking for:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3456250


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## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: add me to the list..... (Spectral)*

thanks, for some reason when I searched it did not come up and I only was seeing 3 pages at the bottom of the main thread


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## Spectral (Dec 21, 2005)

_Quote, originally posted by *maz60* »_
I enjoyed driving the Phaeton very much and would have loved to lease a new one if they were still importing them. However, I am very familiar with the delays and expenses that can occur when you get repairs on rare orphan VW/Audi products and have decided to more on.
There is one particular problem which clinched my choice to move on from the Phaeton. The failure of VW to provide replacement air/shocks that match the original equipment seems to fly in the face of their stated policy of providing replacement parts for older models. 
I can understand that a newer system may be better and or cheaper to produce. But it is not right to ask the consumer to pay for the replacement of 3 non failed air/struts and the controller. I absolutely do not understand the policy of “We will decided on a case by case basis”, who gets the new system but in for free and who doesn’t. It seems to be a policy of if you are lucky enough to have read this forum and pull the strings, you get help. If you didn’t know about it, you get the bill.



+1
I quoted this from a different thread because it belongs in this thread. This suspension issue is the only thing that may convince me to trade the Phaeton before the warranty expires.
However, trading the Phaeton prematurely and acquiring a suitable replacement will result in a net loss that far exceeds a trumped up suspension bill. 
What really bothers me is the possibility of having to pay for three shocks and a controller that are not defective, but have been made obsolete by the manufacturer.


----------



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

Hasn 't anyone done any digging into the Federal LAW which requires a manufacturer to make parts available for 7 years after year of production?


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: (Spectral)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spectral* »_What really bothers me is the possibility of having to pay for three shocks and a controller that are not defective, but have been made obsolete by the manufacturer. 

I find this very unsettling as well.
Even after Chris's comments from VW, which probably hold true for VW today, or in 2008... what happens in 2010 after my warranty expires? The people who told Chris what they told him probably won't be there, then.
If they have changed the system because it was defective, the honest thing to do is to recall the affected vehicles. If the former system was not defective, it needs to be made available.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Itzmann)*

I don't think VW changed the system because it was defective, I think the system changed because they changed suppliers. If there was anything inherently wrong with the components supplied by the original company, we would have heard about it from everyone by now.
I agree that it doesn't look like VW is handling this as well as they could perhaps handle it. However, as long as they are looking after everyone (supplying the other 3 air springs and the controller at their expense if someone has a failure of a single air shock), let's not let the drama llama out of the pen just yet. It could well be that this is a logistics problem that VW had not foreseen, and they are trying to come up with a better solution (e.g. get the previous version of air shock back into production), and this is why there has not been a pronouncement about it from VW.
The last thing I want to do is see this forum turn into a Touareg forum, where everyone jumps on the "let's bash VW" bandwagon whenever the opportunity presents itself. Over the past 3 years, VW has provided us with a lot of support and co-operation, so let's just give them the benefit of the doubt on this issue for the time being, OK?
Michael
PS: I have a 2004 car.


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## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: add me to the list..... (paulkountz)*

I called the dealership this morning to check on if they had gotten my keys and they said that the car was able to go right up to normal height but that they were checking for leaks. It does not sound right because when I got out to my car on Saturday it would not go up at all and I even let it sit for a while and try it again.
Anyone have insight as to what I should do or ask to have done? 
thank you in advance


----------



## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: add me to the list..... (paulkountz)*

There are occasional electronic gremlins that pop up and then disappear after a couple of start cycles and some passage of time. This could have been one of them.
I have taken the approach of monitoring the warnings while continuing to operate the vehicle. If the alarm or warning does not go away by itself after a couple of restarts, then I take it to the dealer. This method has saved me several unnecessary trips to the dealer.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: add me to the list..... (paulkountz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulkountz* »_I called the dealership this morning... and they said that the car was able to go right up to normal height but that they were checking for leaks. 

I would like to have my Phaeton kneel on command when parked. Maybe you found the secret switch! Let us know if you or the dealer figure out how you made it kneel down like that.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

The problem may not be VW-specific as I've seen a previous generation Merc CL today parked in Belgravia with its front valence completely touching the pavement (although the rear axle looked okay...)


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*

I got to see a Phaeton doing this on Saturday. The front was completely collapsed and the rear was normal. It was due to a ride height sensor, which we repaired, but it would be fun to see a Phaeton laying low when parked.


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for the level-headed insight (as always) Michael.
With that said, I have a feeling that if your car should suffer this failure, the corporate jet will be dispatched directly from Dresden with the master technicians and a complete replacement system on-board.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

Geez, I hope not. I try to keep a low profile at the VW dealership, and I certainly don't want to get treated any differently than any other owner would. If I go to Dresden, sure, they treat me very nicely there, but everyone on this forum who has been to Dresden will agree with me that Dresden treats all visitors nicely.
In fact - speaking of parts - I tried to change the licence plates on my car from Ontario to BC last month, but my car failed the safety check because one of the inboard rear lights was not working - that caused a lot of laughter amongst all of us, most especially from the tech who had to tell me the news... he told me it was the best maintained car he had ever seen, but that didn't matter, it still flunked the safety check because of the light not working. 5 weeks later, the tech and I are still waiting for all the parts to arrive. We have all the major parts (the lights), it's just one little rubber seal on back-order that is holding things up. So, I am happy to report, I think I get treated the same as anyone else, and that's the way it should be.
Michael


----------



## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: (OEMpl.us)*

It has been a week since the first malfunction. The dealership first diagnosed the issue to be a bad suspension controler so they ordered a new one that came in yesterday (Friday). The new controller did not fix the problem so PCC called me to inform me that they would be replacing the whole system (phew!). They have assured me that they will have the car ready by the time I do the annual voyage to Princeton for Christmas on the 21st.
Are there any concerns people have with an 04 that has had the suspension conversion??


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (paulkountz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulkountz* »_...Are there any concerns people have with an 04 that has had the suspension conversion??

No concerns that I have heard of, but you really should plan to leave the vehicle at the VW dealer for at least 3 or 4 days to get the work done. The replacement of the four air shocks will take a fair amount of time, and once that is done, all four wheels need to be aligned on a special four wheel alignment rack.
You might want to ask the technician to have a look at the condition of the brakes whilst he or she is doing the work on the suspension. If brake pads and rotors need to be replaced, there will be the opportunity to save quite a bit of labour time if you have this done at the same time as the suspension - most of the disassembly will have been done already.
You might want to suggest to the technician that he or she take the car home overnight and then drive it back to work the next day after all the work is done. This will give the technician a chance to do a really thorough test-drive, and also to catch any unrelated items that might have snuck through the back door while all the other work was being done.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*PS:* For example, the TPMS will be all screwed up and need to be re-adapted after this work is done. You can do this yourself, but it's less stressful if the technician does it during the course of a long test drive. Also, be aware that it is very easy to accidentally bust a wheel speed-sensor when doing suspension or brake work (ask me how I know...







), even if you are being very careful. If a speed-sensor is busted, you will get an ABS warning light, and then it takes a day to order in a new speed-sensor. It only takes 3 minutes to install it, but it takes a day to get it from the parts depot.
Michael


----------



## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (paulkountz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulkountz* »_It has been a week since the first malfunction. The dealership first diagnosed the issue to be a bad suspension controler so they ordered a new one that came in yesterday (Friday). The new controller did not fix the problem so PCC called me to inform me that they would be replacing the whole system (phew!). They have assured me that they will have the car ready by the time I do the annual voyage to Princeton for Christmas on the 21st.
Are there any concerns people have with an 04 that has had the suspension conversion??

Tsk tsk. If your dealer's Phaeton tech or Phaeton service adviser were smart and followed this forum religiously, they would have known that replacing the suspension controller without also replacing all four struts would be futile. They also could have made an earlier call into PCC to uncover same. Oh well - at least they know now.


----------



## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: (stjarna)*

oddly enough, I called PCC somewhere in the middle of the week and they told me that my dealer had ordered the controller. I brought it to their attention that I had just enough knowledge from this forum to be dangerous, and asked if there could have been a problem with replacing the controller with a newer version without replacing the rest of the system. She informed me that there would not be an issue that they are aware of but that they would be more than happy to follow up with the dealer.
I suppose it might be best if there were a technical bulletin about this issue so that dealers like mine that see one every month or so would be "in the know" about difficult problems that are specific to this dying breed.


----------



## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (paulkountz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulkountz* »_She informed me that there would not be an issue that they are aware of but that they would be more than happy to follow up with the dealer.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (stjarna)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stjarna* »_...they would have known that replacing the suspension controller without also replacing all four struts would be futile.

No, not necessarily. If the problem was caused by a fault in the controller, and there is nothing wrong with any of the four struts, then just replacing the controller by itself is the appropriate action.
There are two different controllers available - the A suffix, which is for the MY 2004 vehicles, and the B suffix, which cut in about the same time as the MY 2005 cars went into production. If you have a controller-only problem, then the solution is to only replace the controller, being careful to order the correct one for the vehicle.
The procurement problem is with MY 2004 version struts (the air shock absorber itself). If a MY 2004 strut fails, and VW cannot procure a new, replacement MY 2004 strut - as seems to be the case at the moment in North America - then all four struts need to be replaced with the newer version, and the controller will also have to be replaced with a newer version.
Michael


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I thought we had concluded that the change to the module required a change in struts (and not the other way around).


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (stjarna)*

Hi Logan:
You are correct, a change in build specification to either side (control module or the struts themselves) will require a change to the corresponding component on the other side.
The catch is this: VW has both generations of control module in stock and always has. They don't have the first generation of the struts themselves in stock.
So, if my 2004 Phaeton suspension control module fails, no problem, I just order another control module (same part number suffix) and replace it... problem solved with about 20 minutes of labour, not counting the adaptation, and probably about $400 for the controller. But, if one of my struts (air shock absorbers) fail, uh, then I have to get on the phone to PCC and make arrangements to get 4 new struts *and *1 new control module.
Michael


----------



## paulkountz (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

The parts arrived yesterday to my tech's supprise and he had already completed the front end part of the job. He anticipates having everything done by Wednesday (I cannot believe that there was such a quick turnaround!). 
He said that the cluprit of the malfunction was a leak in the front passenger air strut under the rubber sleeve where the controler wire enters into the strut.
Michael, I passed on your suggestion and he said he would be more than happy to take it for an extended drive.
A certain Phaeton tech is most certainly receiving a gift card in his stocking this year from a greatful customer.


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## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

The only problem I have had with my Phaeton was due to a leak in the suspension and was caused by vermin attack. Perhaps this was your problem too.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (paulkountz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulkountz* »_Michael, I passed on your suggestion and he said he would be more than happy to take it for an extended drive...

Hi Paul:
Just FYI, when I bought my new W12 three years ago, it had 3 miles showing on the odometer when it was sitting in the showroom. I signed the paperwork and paid for the car, then told the salesman not to call me to pick the car up until the lead technician in the service department (the Phaeton tech) had put 300 miles on it.
The tech was kind enough to drive the car for a week (he figured 200 miles was enough), and when I took delivery of it, the car was flawless... I didn't have a single one of those little 'new vehicle snag' type problems. I think I will do this again in the future if I ever purchase or lease another complicated car.
Michael


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Although I can understand people's concerns over the air struts, if you hop on over to the W220 S-Class section of the Benz World forums; every other thread seems to be about the air suspension going funny (failure to rise, compressor motor exploding, suspension collapsing on motorway...)


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## g-roadster (Nov 14, 2007)

*Questions about buying a used Phaeton*

I am looking to get a Phaeton as soon as possible. This forum is a great resource, thank you. I've read some great comments that I can't find again and others are scattered throughout the forum. Some of my questions will be redundant but it will be handy to have them in one place for future reference.
I would like to get a 2004 or 2005 V8 with about 30,000 miles and of course do not want pay too much. Buying a certified car will give me an extended warranty to 74,000 miles and two years added to factory warranty, I consider this a must. Now the questions:
Does the complete maintenance with loaner car extend to subsequent owners?
What are all the software and mechanical updates that should be done, I have heard that there is a software update for the instrument panel?
What were some of the major option packages available? I have heard of a cold weather package, upgraded sound, cooled seats, four seat option that I do not want. What do they add to the resale price if anything? Which are worth having and what should be avoided.
My biggest concern is a suspension failure as mentioned on this forum. I understand that the early parts are no longer available and with a component failure all four wheels need new suspension parts at a cost of about $10,000. Some say this is wear part failure and not covered under warranty, others had this corrected under warranty. What is the case for a suspension failure? Will this be covered with the certified extended warranty or a purchased extended warranty?
What is the best extended warranty to 100,000 miles? How much should I pay for this?
Thanks so much for your help.
Steve


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Questions about buying a used Phaeton (g-roadster)*

Hi Steve:
Welcome to the forum.
I can answer some of your questions, but not all. I'm sure the other forum members will fill in the gaps.

_Quote, originally posted by *g-roadster* »_Does the complete maintenance with loaner car extend to subsequent owners?

No. Truth is, that program was largely dependent on the individual dealers taking the initiative to make it happen. Some dealers did (for example, my dealer kept a Phaeton loaner in stock for the full 3 year duration of my lease, simply because it was a promise he made to me when he sold me the car), but many dealers did not follow through. To the best of my knowledge, the scheduled maintenance at the 10,000 mile intervals for the first 50K miles within the first 4 years does carry over to the new owner.

_Quote, originally posted by *g-roadster* »_What are all the software and mechanical updates that should be done, I have heard that there is a software update for the instrument panel?

Have a browse through our Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category), pretty much all the information is there, though you might need a bit of time to read it all. The instrument cluster flash update is something that is done in response to a report that the analog clock in the center of the vehicle is losing time. In the rest of the world, it was a mandatory update, done when the car came in for an oil change, for some reason it was never made mandatory in North America, and it is done on request only.

_Quote, originally posted by *g-roadster* »_What is the case for a suspension failure? Will this be covered with the certified extended warranty or a purchased extended warranty?

So far VW has been pretty good about handling the problem of air strut (shock absorber) failures on the 2004 cars. It is NOT a common problem, I think we have only heard 3 reports so far. The background is this: the pre-2005 shock absorbers are not available in North America as replacement parts, and the 2005 and onward shock absorbers are not compatible with the earlier system. Thus, if a single air strut (shock absorber) fails on a MY 2004 car, the other three have to be replaced as well, along with the controller. This is expensive.
If the car is still under warranty, no problem, the warranty covers it. If the car is no longer under warranty, VW handles the problem on a 'case by case' basis. So far, they have absorbed the cost (parts and labour) for the other three shocks and the new controller - all the owner has to pay for is the single shock that failed. We don't know what the whole story is... there have been no reports of similar problems from Europe, which suggests that the part is still available over there. Lord only knows what the full story is, but so far, the way VW has handled things has been pretty fair to everyone.
Hope this helps,
Michael


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## sandydennis111 (Dec 27, 2007)

Interesting.
VW should actually handle this problem like Infiniti did when they realized that their transmissions on the '01-'03 Q45's were not good enough for their cars, they replaced them all at no cost. As they failed they replaced them, all under full warranty to 90k.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (sandydennis111)*

Well, VW is sort of a funny company. They are not exactly "the first dog off the porch" sometimes, but in the end, they are a pretty honest company, and they have always done the right thing by us here in this forum.
It would certainly be to their benefit if they did what you suggested... I just don't think they quite have things well enough organized to take that kind of approach, at least, certainly not in the North American market, anyway.


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: Questions about buying a used Phaeton (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_...the problem of air strut (shock absorber) failures on the 2004 cars. It is NOT a common problem, I think we have only heard 3 reports so far.

Michael, in another thread earlier this year I reported "8 to 9" Phaetons with air strut failures handled by one Dallas-area VW dealership alone, with my car's failure in February 2007 being their first one to handle. Thus, from my highly limited perspective into the situation, I tend to disagree that the failure is uncommon, at least in Dallas. 

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_If the car is no longer under warranty, VW handles the problem on a 'case by case' basis. So far, they have absorbed the cost (parts and labour) for the other three shocks and the new controller - all the owner has to pay for is the single shock that failed.

My understanding from the same Dallas-area VW dealership is that Michael's report on how VGA (nee VWoA) has handled each out-of-warranty air strut system failure is correct. The company does appear to be doing Phaeton owners right on this matter. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Logan.


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## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: Questions about buying a used Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

List of options for MY 2005 and 2006 are in the FAQs. Try this link http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1731076.


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## sandydennis111 (Dec 27, 2007)

*air strut failures*

What production numbers on the 2004 phaetons have the new improvements.
I'm checking out 3 Phaetons in the sf bay area and want to be sure they have the upgraded shocks.


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## baremytone (Dec 7, 2007)

*Re: air strut failures (sandydennis111)*

I would also like to know this. I've heard others refer to problem but couldn't find out any details.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: air strut failures (sandydennis111)*

OK, OK, hold on here before the wrong story gets out of control...
Here are the facts:
*1)* There are no 'known problems' with Phaeton suspension components. The failure rate across all model years has been equal or less than industry average, based upon reports made here in the forum.
*2)* There was a part number change made between the end of MY 2004 and beginning of MY 2005 construction.
*3)* For reasons unknown, the original version (MY 2004) parts are not available in North America at this time. This means if one shock fails, you have to replace the other three, because the parts cannot be mixed.
*4)* Volkswagen of America has been dealing with this on a 'case by case' basis, but so far, for the three cases of shock failure that have been reported from the MY 2004 fleet (that's less than 0.1% of production), they have paid for the parts and labour required to replace the other three even if the vehicle is out of warranty.
Sandy, I posted more or less the same information in a reply (above) earlier - please read the above information carefully. Feel free to ask if you have any questions.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

On the question of reliability, if you look at the forums for Mercedes W220 S-Class owners it's quite terrifying how many problems there have been with their air suspension.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prince Ludwig* »_On the question of reliability, if you look at the forums for Mercedes W220 S-Class owners it's quite terrifying how many problems there have been with their air suspension.

And the 1989 Ford Granada leaked transmission fluid like a sieve, but that wouldn't stop me from buying a Mondeo should Ford ever make the ROW ones available in the NAR...


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Latest Issue: Bad Air Shock....*

It seems like I'm the only one having these issues and I'm very particular about how I drive my car.
A while back I reported after having my brake pads replaced I would hear a slight clunk when hitting bumps in the road. It only came from the driver side tire area.
This was prior to having my 20" rims installed. After taking the car in the dealer said everything was operating within spec and they could find no problem.
As the time grew closer for my rims I said I would take it in one more time so that they wouldn't later blame it on my rims. Again they said they couldn't find an issue. This time I took the tech for a drive and he said he heard it faintly. But I don't think he was taking me too serious because he didn't get to really hear what I hear when driving through Chevy Chase or DCs rocky roads.
Now the noise had went from a slight clunk to a more obvious clunk/clank noise but only when that tire hits a bump.
Today I took it in again and of course the first thing they said was "your aftermarket rims could cause ...." blah blah. I told them I don't want to hear that since I brought the car in prior to the rims for the very reason that I didn't want to get shafted.
Anyway I have a good relationship with the service manager at this shop he said it shouldn't be a problem it should be covered. I took another tech out for a spin he heard it and immediately said something in the suspension sounds loose.
Later I received a call stating the air shock would need to be replaced. Ouuuuuch. 53K and air shocks are going up? That's scary.
But I thought someone mentioned that the entire air ride has to be replaced not just one side or one unit? 
Has anyone else experienced this? I read something about a failed lifter on the forums but I didn't know what a lifter was.
===================================
UPDATE:
It has been confirmed that all 4 air shocks/air ride suspension must be replaced. Apparently they can't just replace one, they have to replace all four (which I guess could be a good thing)...
Total Cost: $8,000
It's a warranty covered item for me, but let's just hope I never have to replace these out of warranty.


_Modified by derrickonline at 6:51 AM 8-25-2008_


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## ciscokidinsf (Feb 17, 2008)

So, Derrick, No codes or 'Warning: Car Too Low!' signs from the Phaeton when that happens? I would imagine one bad air shock would cause some sort of code to check. Weird.
Time to start hunting for a used air-shock replacement from a junked Phaeton if your warranty doesn't cover it. (CPO should, though)


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (ciscokidinsf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ciscokidinsf* »_So, Derrick, No codes or 'Warning: Car Too Low!' signs from the Phaeton when that happens? I would imagine one bad air shock would cause some sort of code to check. Weird.
Time to start hunting for a used air-shock replacement from a junked Phaeton if your warranty doesn't cover it. (CPO should, though)

Yea, you'd think the car would display something in the cluster... "Buster Air Shock"







; ha ha (sorry I had to humor myself today). 
Glad you picked that up sooner, rather than later. I hope you get it repaired without frustration..


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Latest Issue: Bad Air Shock.... (derrickonline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derrickonline* »_But I thought someone mentioned that the entire air ride has to be replaced not just one side or one unit?

Hi Derrick,
Sorry to hear about your problem. Hopefully it will turn out to be something other than a bad air strut, and I bet some alternate diagnoses will soon be forthcoming from the forum braintrust. 
However, in the meantime, the discussion you are referring to above - where ALL the air struts would need to be replaced when only one has failed is, I believe, limited only to certain early production 2004 models, and an extremely rare event. Here are some links to those discussions:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...56288
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3558192
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3456250
Best of luck








P.S. - the "lifter" is an internal engine part that opens and closes valves (I think) and is not related in any way to the suspension.



_Modified by remrem at 6:15 PM 8-21-2008_


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: Latest Issue: Bad Air Shock.... (remrem)*

All, yes there were no codes. Very odd. But the shock has gotten worse. It now sounds like it's bottoming out over certain bumps. It's probably not but it doesn't sound good.
Monday is the day I'll take her in to get replaced. Not happy about it, nor do I feel any more confident in this car. The list just keeps going, this being the most serious issue thus far. Thank god I'm still under warranty.


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: Latest Issue: Bad Air Shock.... (derrickonline)*

UPDATE:
It has been confirmed that all 4 air shocks/air ride suspension must be replaced. Apparently they can't just replace one, they have to replace all four (which I guess could be a good thing)...
Total Cost: $8,000
It's a warranty covered item for me, but let's just hope I never have to replace these out of warranty.


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: Latest Issue: Bad Air Shock.... (derrickonline)*

CPO warranty?


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## chicagovwsales (Jul 6, 2005)

Is that being covered under the 5 year/60K powertrain warranty or the CPO warranty?


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: Latest Issue: Bad Air Shock.... (mhoepfin)*

Yes. I didn't have to touch the Fidelity warranty yet. Apparently the 50K factory warranty is up but there was a CPO warranty to cover me until 74K and my Fidelity to take me up to 88K. I'm considering cancelling the fidelity warranty since I feel like I was somewhat ripped off, I can't recall the exact amount but I'm sure I paid over $1,000 for the fidelity warranty and technically it's only valid for 14,000 miles. I spoke with the guy on the forums who sells the Fidelity warranties and gave me some good advice. Cancel it, wait until I'm at "x" miles I can't recall exactly and then call him for a warranty. I would get more bang for the buck.


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: Latest Issue: Bad Air Shock.... (derrickonline)*

Update:
They replaced all 4 air ride shocks as well as the controller. I noticed the car seemed to be the same height (even though I did the euro spec lowering). Just to be sure I contacted Eric on the forums and we went to lower it to Euro spec and found that they replaced the controller with a newer controler "C" that wouldn't allow us to make the change anymore. But after some measuring we realized it was actually the same height it was (i.e. it was already at euro spec).
I'm wondering how you replace 4 air shocks and a controller and it didn't get reset to US spec? Hmmm...you think the tech did that because he knew I put it to euro spec? Eric thinks they didn't adapt it after replacing controller and shocks which is why it remained the same height.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Latest Issue: Bad Air Shock.... (derrickonline)*

*Archival Note:* Merged all the shock absorber related posts together (including the three links above), will add this thread to the FAQ.
Michael


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## richnrita (Sep 23, 2008)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (jaredturner11)*

I am new to the forum. I am not sure this is the place to post, but it seems relevant to my problem. When I first start my car after it has sat for a while, the car is almost resting on the front tires, and a warning light "stop-car too low" comes on. In less than a minute, the car rights itself, and returns to normal height operation, and works fine. It will even adjust heights if I so choose. But then it does the same thing each time it sits. Any ideas? Please do not tell me it is a 10,000 problem.. I beg you. I have an extended warranty from VW. 2004 phaeton, 61,000 miles. Thanks


_Modified by richnrita at 5:33 PM 9-22-2008_


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (jaredturner11)*

Sorry I'm late chiming in and I didn't read the entire thread just your posting. Having recently had all 4 air shocks go bad I can provide a little insight.
My car has 56K on it now, the air shocks went up like 54K. It started with a little clanking noise when hitting bumps or driving over rough terrain, I could actually feel something under my foot as well (the left foot that rests).
Over time it progressively got worse. I also was still able to raise and lower the car with no issue that I could see.
After taking it in twice the techs were starting to think I was some freak because they couldn't recreate the sound. But 3rd time was the charm, since it got worse it was much easier to duplicate.
My car was still under CPO warranty the factory 50K warranty had expired. Though fidelity did tell me that air shocks were covered, I have the best warranty (the one under the one that covers regular maintenance).

Anyhow VW replaced ALL 4 air shocks after determining that the issue was related to a bad seal on one air shock.
This is the part you probably care about...
When I went to lower my car back to euro spec with Eric (form the forums) and the VAG tool, we were locked out of the module because the upon replacing all 4 shocks they also had to replace the controller.
VW also advised me that the new shocks are a different model and if one goes bad, only one will need to be replaced going forward. 
This leads me to believe that the 04 shocks/air are no longer being used, as they go out you get an upgraded air shock system. FYI.
And yes, I saw the bill, it was about $10,000. 
If you'd like I can try to get the part number for the newer model that was installed.
-------
Update: Oops I gotta start reading these threads from last to first. Not first to last.

_Modified by derrickonline at 7:51 AM 9-23-2008_


_Modified by derrickonline at 7:29 AM 9-24-2008_


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## mckinnonw (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (jaredturner11)*

Can anyone who this has happened to please PM me. Would love to see how it was resolved...
Like the original poster (jared?) I have a 2004 W12. I think I have 45k miles +/-. I bought the car second hand about 2 years ago and have had it maintained by a local VW dealership that seems pretty good. Unfortunatey the car is out of warranty though -- the 4 years expired in March 2008 and I did not buy an extended warranty...
Anyway, last week I was driving my kids to school when I turned a corner while going about 15 miles/hour. I heard a moderate "pop" in the front right wheel and the car immediately dropped about 3-4 inches and the "car too low" warning came on. I continued about 1/4 mile going very slowly and realized that it was not going to right itself, so I pulled over and parked the car.
I had it towed to VW dealer and then yesterday got a call from my service advisor who was beating around the bush for like 2 minutes when I finally asked "What's the damage?" Without giving me all of the detail that I got on this forum (e.g. about parts changing in the 2005 MY, customer care "doing the right thing," and it only happening in .01 percent of cases) he told me that one of the front air shocks (right side) had failed, and when it failed the resulting strain on the other front shock (left side) did lots of damage to that one as well, so that one is pretty much shot too, and that the repair of the first two would require me to replace all 4 of them ($2200 each shock) plus the control module ($1000) plus labor ($1100) for a total of $11,000!!!!! 
Needless to say, I told him to let me think about it and I jumped on the Forum to see what others had experienced. Glad to read that I am not the only one here.
Just curious -- anyone got a recommended course of action? Should I call PCC? I have never dealt with them before. 
UPDATE -- I called Phaeton Customer Care and they agreed to cover 3 of the 4 shocks and the control module. I will ocver 1 of the 4 for total cost of approximately $2200. They were very familiar with the problem, almost finishing my sentences. PCC was great. Apparently there are 3 people who handle all Phaeton issues and thus they know what they are talking about. Very Happy!!




_Modified by mckinnonw at 6:02 PM 10-15-2008_


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (mckinnonw)*

The rumor on this forum is that since VW does not stock the 2004 shock absorbers any more, if one goes bad they will ask you to pay for one and give you the other three and the control module for free, but you have to ask and ask. Contact VW.
Worse case scenario, in the U.S. you could sue them, it has been suggested, because by law they are supposed to stock replacement parts for your car for 10 years, supposedly.
Best of luck, and let us know how it goes.


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## vah (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (Itzmann)*

can anything be done to prevent this from happening?
i have now about 55k miles.


_Modified by vah at 8:13 AM 10-12-2008_


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (derrickonline)*

derrick which warranty is this you talk about? please tell me more


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (Reflect)*

I've read on another forum there is a law in the USA that states cars sold here must have parts for 10 years. Having to buy all 4 because VW doesn't support 2004 air shocks is bad business... 
$11,000 for air shocks is BS!!


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (derrickonline)*

Which Warranty? Could you provide contact info?


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## jlindy (Mar 21, 2006)

I had an error message in one of mine before the warranty ended so they replace ALL FOUR for free as well. Whew, I guess I dodged the bullet on that one.


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (jlindy)*

yes which warranty was that


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (Reflect)*

According to the VW Extended warranty (provided by a third party company) with the Platinum plan, they will cover the air suspension.


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (Reflect)*

Reflect:
Sorry I'm late, the suspension was covered under the CPO warranty (Certified Pre Owned warranty) as the factory warranty had expired by a couple of thousand miles.
In my opinion the CPO warranty has been just as good as the factory warranty for major repairs. I haven't had to use the Fidelity warranty (extended warranty that you pay extra for) yet.


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (derrickonline)*

sounds good. ty


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for all who have researched the shock absorber situation. It is a significant concern for me also. I have had no trouble with my air suspension. It works as advertised and I use all of the features and truly enjoy having it. 
I would also hate to lose the air suspension on my Phaeton. It is one of the features that makes the car so special. However, if there were a set of good non-air shocks available that would fit, I would certainly do that when my Phaeton was more aged rather than spend $10k on air shocks. Retrofitting "standard" shocks may be an issue for the forum in 4 or 5 years from now when the cars are "old". I used to own a 1988 BMW 750iL with hydraulic rear shocks. As these cars aged, many owners were confronted with rear shock failures. The solutions were 1. bite the bullet and buy new hydraulic shocks (expensive but much-much cheaper than current Phaeton solution), 2. retrofit gas filled struts ( not too hard since the 735 was same body and came with standard shocks), 3. have them rebuilt (originally thought impossible but some entrepreneur figured out how to open them up and replace o-rings and reseal the canister). Can Phaeton air shocks be rebuilt? This question probably has not been asked because our cars are too new. But I bet it will be asked many times in the future as the cars age.
I apologize for my ramblings about the future and Phaeton air suspension. But again thanks to all those that worked on our immediate concerns.









_Modified by Jxander at 1:25 PM 10-22-2008_


_Modified by Jxander at 1:34 PM 10-22-2008_


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (Capitol Volkswagen)*

Thanks Capitol VW. What a resource! The parts diagrams are worth their weight in gold. Also the discounts for VW OEM parts are quite good. I know most of us prefer to use these to maintain and repair our Phaetons.


_Modified by Jxander at 7:07 PM 10-22-2008_


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## manaburrn (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (Jxander)*

I asked Arnott indistries to make a shock for the Phaeton - I'll let you guys know what they say when they call back.
http://www.arnottindustries.co....html


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## manaburrn (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: Please Help!!!! VW Phaeton suspension $10k repair (manaburrn)*

If someone could please clarify for me: air springs hold the car up. Air shocks dampen vibrations. If I am not mistaken, I think we are taking about air springs? http://www.sae.org/automag/tec...3.htm
"Conventional steel-sprung-chassis ride height is always a compromise between the optimum setup for light and heavy vehicle loads. The Phaeton chassis solves this classic conflict in setup because the car body is consistently supported by air springs filled by a compressor regardless of load, ensuring consistent spring travel at all times. The technology, which was already implemented in Audi's Allroad Quattro, was refined for the Phaeton. Because the air springs are surrounded by an aluminum guide, the walls of their bellows can be made of exceptionally thin material for exceptionally sensitive response and thus ride comfort. "
Arnott makes the Quattro SPRINGS for $299


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## rainerUSA (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: (ramtor)*

Hi,
I have also a 2004 V8 and when turning my wheels I hear a clicking sound from the front driver side wheel. My car has the CPO warranty and the dealer replaced first the lower than the upper control arm but the noise is still there. I had it back in last week and was told it might be the shock absorber and to bring it back in this week. Ok now they said it will cost $6000.00 because as you stated correctly the shocks are no longer available and they would have to replace both sides plus all control arms. 
The dealer told me that VW said not to do anything and see if the noise gets worse..I don’t think I want to wait until I am out of warranty. 
Any thoughts of what the clicking noise could be? It makes the sound every time I stop and start turning the wheel.
Thank You and sorry for the long post
...


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (rainerUSA)*

Do you have to be moving for the clicking sound to appear or does it happen when you turn the wheel when not moving? If only when you are moving, does it happen when turning both left and right? Can you describe the problem more exactly? When you turn the wheel is there one click, or multiple clicks? How far do you hve to turn the wheel? Does it matter if you turn it fast or slow? Give an exact scenario.
It sounds strange that turning the wheel would cause a shock absorber to click as there would be little or no movement of the air shock/spring. If it is the shock, you would expect that rocking the car back and forth (by having one or two people pushing on the roof or pressing down on the bumper repeatedly) while another sits in the car to hear the noise would also cause the symptom. Anything can happen, but I'd be shocked if it were a shock.
Steven


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (rainerUSA)*

I agree with Steven - I don't think that the shock absorber would have anything to do with a clicking sound.
I'm a bit surprised that your technician is "guessing" at the cause of the problem - I think it would be fairly simple to just put the car on a wheel alignment rack (where the weight of the car is on the wheels, and the front wheels are resting on plates that can turn), then to start the car, turn the wheels, and listen to find out where the click is coming from.
In other words, I'm saying that I think your technician might just be 'shotgunning' the problem when he or she brings up shock absorbers as a possible cause. It sounds to me like the technician has not identified what component is making the sound. It's pretty hard to effectively solve a problem if you don't know what the cause of the problem is.
Michael


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## phaetonenvy (Jun 2, 2006)

I'm curious to see what they find. my situation is quite similar. I get a click when driving over speed bumps and when shifting the cars weight in parking structures. I demonstrated it to the phaeton tech -- but the problem has not been solved yet (I need to take it back in for repair).


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (rainerUSA)*

I had a similar problem with a Nissan Maxima. I also had the misconception that the dealer's mechanic's with all their experience on the brand and model could easily identify the problem. Wrong. After replacing struts and upper strut mounts the problem was still there. My symptons were just like PhaetonEnvy's. Replacing the stabilizer links appears to have been the solution. The comparable part in the Phaeton appears to be the stabilizer link or connecting link. However, it seems strange that a dealer would replace upper and lower control arms and not do the "less" expensive connecting links to complete the job.
It does seem like a "good" mechanic could diagnose such obvious flaws in a car but sadly the ole replace enough parts til you solve the problem seems to be pretty common. If this is being done under warranty, I'd say have it, but if it hits my wallet that's another issue! 
Phaeton's are very heavy vehicles. Frontend bushings are not going to last too long. So as more and more Phaeton's reach 75k+ miles, there is going to be more discussions about rebuilding frontends. I'm not looking forward to it but it is inevitable. 
http://www.vwpartsdepartment.c...gid=0


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## rainerUSA (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: (car_guy)*

Thanks for the fast reply...
Ok here it only when the car is stationary and I have to have the car door open and the engine running. There is one click every time I stop and turn the wheel other words when I turn the wheel all the way and do not stop there is 1 click but if i stop and turn it again (or go the opposite way)it clicks again. It is only on the driver side wheel. I also think the dealer did replace the stabilizer bar (I cannot seem to get a copy of the work order). I just had a new set of tires put on to make it turn with less strain but it is still the same.
The dealer was on the phone with the VW tech who concluded it must come from the strut (I think it might be a tie-rod).
I hope this info helps.
My car had a few issues along with some minor issues they replaced the whole transmission after 43K miles. But I still love this car . ..


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (rainerUSA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rainerUSA* »_I just had a new set of tires put on to make it turn with less strain but it is still the same.
The dealer was on the phone with the VW tech who concluded it must come from the strut (I think it might be a tie-rod). 

Wow! Who recommended you buy new tires "...to make it turn with less strain..."? What a waste of money. Why would new tires turn with "less strain"?
The dealer was on the phone with the VW tech? Isn't there a Phaeton tech or a VW tech at the dealership? I don't think you can diagnose the source of a sound over the phone. We put someone on the ground holding various suspension and steering components and they listen _and feel_ for the noise. 
BTW, sway bars won't click unless the bushing is completely gone. Sway bar links, located at the ends of the sway bar, will make clicking noises, but only when the suspension travels vertically. The rocking procedure I spoke of in an earlier post is the method we use to identify this problem. We replace many links on all makes of vehicles, front and rear, as it is by far the most common cause of suspension travel noise. The bushings in the links just wear out.
Now that I've said you can't diagnose a sound remotely, I'll ask my mechanics on Monday if they have any ideas!
Steven


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## rainerUSA (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: (car_guy)*

Hi Steven,
I appreciate your help. Nobody recommended it just happened that I needed 2 new tires and I had them put on the front...that was my Idea.
Yes they have a "Phaeton Tech" but I don’t think he trained enough. Since I bought my care (March 2007) it was probably in the shop for at least 30 days I sometimes I drop it off and get it back after 2 or 3 days the same way I dropped it off because parts did not come in or they did not have time or the problem was not fixed.
Rainer


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## flatlandbob (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: (rrussell)*

So if I'm reading this right, my Platinum Warranty (7yr/100K mile) that would expire
12/2011 would cover this shock problem minus my deductible of $100.


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: (flatlandbob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flatlandbob* »_So if I'm reading this right, my Platinum Warranty (7yr/100K mile) that would expire
12/2011 would cover this shock problem minus my deductible of $100. 

All the history on this topic suggests VW always picks up the tab for the other three. If you are out of warranty, you pay for one, which is around $2200 from what I read, if in warranty it gets paid by the warranty.
The history is so overwhelming that it would be an easy case to make if there were any pushback.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (mhoepfin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mhoepfin* »_All the history on this topic suggests VW always picks up the tab for the other three.

Exactly. An automobile manufacturer is legally obliged to provide spare parts for a vehicle for 10 years post-sale. In the case of the Phaeton shocks, VW changed the shock specification around the beginning of the MY 2005 production run. I suspect that they evaluated the costs and benefits of continuing to stock the old products vs. simply providing three additional shocks free of charge whenever a customer needed a single one replaced, and decided that it was simpler and less expensive all around to just provide three additional shocks free of charge.
The dealers may not always be aware of this, but certainly VW headquarters is. If anyone encounters any difficulty, just give the staff at the Phaeton Customer Care office a call, they will explain everything to your dealer and ensure that there are no problems.
Michael


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## rainerUSA (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: (car_guy)*

Hi again!
Here is an update:
The dealer still does not know (or care)what that clicking is but I also noticed a sound coming from the right front and I wonder if it related. It sounds like it is a blower or fan or pump and it very annoying because it is so noticeable. It fluctuates high - low- high and is there even when the car is off. I first thought that it was the blower for my heat/air-conditioning or the cooled seats but I made sure it was off than I thought it was a belt but when I speed up or slow down the sound does not change so I turned off the engine and turned the ignition on and voila it is still there. It seems to be coming from the right front wheel well. It also changes when I raise and then lower the vehicle for a few times.
Thanks!!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (rainerUSA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rainerUSA* »_...I also noticed a sound coming from the right front and I wonder if it related. It sounds like it is a blower or fan or pump and it very annoying because it is so noticeable. It fluctuates high - low- high and *is there even when the car is off*.

That sound is the electric fan (there are two of them) that blows air through the radiator of the car to dissipate heat that accumulates when the engine is operating. It is a normal sound.
When you shut off the car after the engine has reached operating temperature, some residual heat will remain in the engine. The fans will turn on and off automatically - even after you have shut down the car - to remove this residual heat from the engine compartment. This is common behaviour in all cars.
Michael


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: (paulkountz)*

My 04 had the suspension replaced (and upgraded, the new suspension is suppose to allow them to only replace one air shock instead of having to replace all 4 when one goes out).
My experience: Car runs fine after the swap no difference. Even when my air ride was going bad it drove beautifully it just made an ugly noise when going over bumps that got worse over time.


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## Qest (Jan 1, 2006)

*$11,000 suspension?*

I heard that the 2004 Phaetons have a different air suspension than '05+ and that if there's a problem with one corner, the entire system has to be upgraded to the '05 spec for approx $11k. The killer is that because the problem is with the suspension, it's not covered by any warranty.
When shopping for a Phaeton, how can I tell if the upgrade has been performed? What causes the problem? Is there any warranty that will cover it?
I ask because I'm considering purchasing a W12.
P.S. I tried searching to no avail.


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## Debart (May 26, 2008)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Qest)*

I've heard that some cars from 2004 are equipped with new version of suspension. Not all... But, we are talking about MODEL YEAR, so production date could be 2003 and new supension could be installed. 
I hope I'm right








I have 2004 model year V8 (physical production date 2003) with new suspension and previously I had 2004 Phaeton also but with old suspension. Fortunatelly, I sold it


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## Bouviers (Jan 1, 2009)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Qest)*

It would indeed be helpful to learn where in the run of VIN#"s in the earlier
cars one could learn if his or her Phaeton is going be faced with that situation.
Help! I too have an '04.
Daniel


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## Debart (May 26, 2008)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Bouviers)*

Hmmm... According to ETKA catalogue, "old" types were mounted between 3D-4-000 001 and 3D-5-008 000.
But, the best solution is to get under the car and check part number by looking at nameplate or sticker:
- rear shock absorber, left side: 3D0 616 001H is no longer manufactured (since 11/01/2008). It has been replaced by 3D0 616 001K, 3D0 616 002K, 3D0 616 039S (BAN, BAP, BRN, BRP, BTT, AJS), 3D0, 616 039T (AYT, BKL, BRK, BGJ, BGH, BMK), 3D0 616 040S ( BAN, BAP, BRN, BRP, BTT, AJS), 3D0 616 040T (AYT, BKL, BRK, BGJ, BGH, BMK). Not clear situation with 3D0 616 001F. It seems it is still available and it was mounted on VIN: up to 3D-3-006 000

- rear shock absorber, right side: 3D0 616 002J is no longer manufactured (since 11/01/2008). It has been replaced by 3D0 616 002K, 3D0 616 001K, 3D0 616 039S (BAN, BAP, BRN, BRP, BTT, AJS), 3D0, 616 039T (AYT, BKL, BRK, BGJ, BGH, BMK), 3D0 616 040S ( BAN, BAP, BRN, BRP, BTT, AJS), 3D0 616 040T (AYT, BKL, BRK, BGJ, BGH, BMK). Not clear situation with 3D0 616 002G. It seems it is still available and it was mounted on VIN: up to 3D-3-006 000

- front shock absorber, left side: all models seems to be available for purchasing : 3D0 616 039L (AYT, BAN), 3D0 616 039N (AYT, BAN, AJS, BGH, BGJ), 3D0 616 039S (AJS, BAN, BRN, BTT), 3D0 616 039T (AYT, BKL, BRK, BGH, BGJ, BMK)

- front shock absorber, right side:all models seems to be available for purchasing: 3D0 616 040L (AYT, BAN), 3D0 616 040N (AYT, BAN, AJS, BGH, BGJ), 3D0 616 040S (AJS, BAN, BRN, BTT), 3D0 616 040T (AYT, BKL, BRK, BGH, BGJ, BMK)
Ufff... So, if you have shock absorber model 3D0 616 001H or 3D0 616 002J mounted at rear... You are in the sh.....t








If you have 3D0 616 002G or 3D0 616 001F at rear probably you are lucky, but not for sure...
Other codes are right...
Based on ETKA catalogue. Thanks god for Etka, Etos, ElsaWin and Vesis











_Modified by Debart at 4:08 PM 2-18-2009_


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## Bouviers (Jan 1, 2009)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Debart)*

Thanks Debart for what you've presented. If there is additional information to be had I say it's time to start gathering it then head for the dealership to have them start a # search. 
Bouviers


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Debart)*

Thanks Debart for the useful info. However, I just checked my VIN and I'm in the "old" category. Now I won't be able to sleep at night.








Do you interpret your findings to mean that a failure in a front shock, even if equipt with the "old" type, could be put back in service by replacing the failed strut or both fronts? In other words, it would be unecessary to replace all four shocks and the controller if only a front shock fails?


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Jxander)*

If I'm not mistaken, I thought that the few owners that had this happen only had to pay for the part that failed (VW picked up the other 3) - I can't recall if this was for CPO cars or Platinum-warranty cars...


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Qest)*

Hello all!
Here is the thread you need to read. In order to fully appreciate the topic, I would suggest you read through all 4 pages:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1


_Modified by remrem at 9:54 PM 2-18-2009_


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (remrem)*

You might end up paying for it if you're over 50k mileage.


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## Debart (May 26, 2008)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Jxander)*

Hello Jim,
Of course I can not confirm if you are "in range" and broke front shock you are lucky








But, I will ask my VW specialist. From these info provided by ETKA/ETOS it seems in case of damage of front you don't need to change all of them. But I suppose it is VW "Mystery Action" and in this case they will propose to replace all shock absorbers








I will ask my VW service station, maybe some things will be clarified soon.
Regards


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Debart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Debart* »_ ...it seems in case of damage of front you don't need to change all of them...

I'm sorry, but I don't believe that is correct. Again, the answers to your questions above can be found by reading (in it's entirety) this thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Debart)*

My vin is ......63D64800...........Does that mean I'm safe?


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: $11,000 suspension? (Jack Orr)*

Hi Michael,
I'm reviving this thread, since new buyers may want to check that the car they wish to purchase does not have the wrong suspensions (the first type), and this thread is not in the FAQ (I fished it out for a French guy who wants to buy a car, and had a hard time finding it again).
I think it would be worth to put it in the FAQ, in the troubleshooting section, since it seems to me that this is the main recurrent (and expensive) flaw that can be found on Phaetons.
What do you think ?
P.


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## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Suspension issue*

I was backing out of my garage and the warning light "car too low" came on. The front suspension looked like it failed - both sides. I can't adjust it back up to the "high" ride height. Can anyone point me to the thread that discusses suspension failure and whether this is covered under warranty? I recall this was a hot topic a couple of years back.


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

Park Cities VW has experience with this. VW home office will probably help out. Maybe big bucks.


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jack Orr)*

I talked to Keith at Park Cities as they were unloading your car off the truck. Since I have a '04 W12, this issue concerns me. 
As I understand it, If one is out of warranty, then owner pays for first strut, and VW for the other 3, but only to original owners of the car, which fortunately I am.
Good luck.


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## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jack Orr)*

Thanks Jack. The car is there right now and they will be diagnosing. I'm hoping the problem is a simple one so we'll see. This goes back to the difference between the 04 and 05 models of the car. If one strut goes bad, they have to replace all of them along with the controller. I don't fully understand the mechanics of this but Keith said it is approximately $2,400 per strut and $1,300 for the controller and around $1,000 for labor. In total, about $12,000. It is ridiculous that we have replace 3 perfectly good struts just to get 1 to work. I will keep you posted.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jack Orr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jack Orr* »_As I understand it, If one is out of warranty, then owner pays for first strut, and VW for the other 3, but only to original owners of the car, which fortunately I am.

The customer (or extended warranty company) is responsible for the _failed_ component(s). VW will step up to the plate for whatever other components are required to make the new strut(s) function.


----------



## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (chrisj428)*

Thanks Chris. I do have the Platinum Driver exclusionary warranty so they would pick-up the first strut. To me, what you are describing is VW issue. Are you sure this is true in all cases? And not case-by-case as has been stated in this forum?


----------



## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Schkymies* »_Thanks Chris. I do have the Platinum Driver exclusionary warranty so they would pick-up the first strut.

Jonathan -
If you could, please post what your experience ends up being. I have the same warranty as you and am keenly curious to find out what types of things are covered by the warranty company and VW as time goes by with these cars. 
Good luck,
Nate


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (ruddyone)*

I have same request as Nate. I am the second owner and currently under CPO for another year. I plan to add VW Real Driver Platinum for 4 years or 40k miles, through Chris(10 Year Vet) prior to expiration of CPO. So I'll be warrantied through at least early 2014. My car went into service around Jan 1 2004, so it would be around 10 years old at the point I'll be out of all warranty. I hope VW would help with a suspension failure through the 10 year service period, since they no longer stock direct replacement struts for the early 2004s. After that, I fully accept that I would be on my own. 
So I'm interested in any information or experience on this very important issue. 
Thanks Jonathon and hears hoping for good news for you.


----------



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jxander)*

Guys, the service guy at Park Cities VW told me specifically that VW USA will honor claims for struts only as respects the original owner of the car. This doesn't really make sense, and I'm not sure it is true.
We will find out for sure in this case, maybe.


----------



## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jack Orr)*

I'm pretty sure the Platinum coverage will deal with this (after whatever deductible). If for some reason they don't, the whole idea of having the Platinum coverage is useless - and will lead me to get rid of this vehicle. 
Will be interesting to see what follows here...


----------



## itsallbeendonebefore (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

jonathan, how many miles do you have on ur car so far? just inquiring since i havent had this prob (knock on wood) and mine is a 2004. seems like quite a few folks have had this prob around 30-50k miles


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jack Orr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jack Orr* »_Guys, the service guy at Park Cities VW told me specifically that VW USA will honor claims for struts only as respects the original owner of the car. This doesn't really make sense, and I'm not sure it is true.
We will find out for sure in this case, maybe.

I agree this doesn't make sense that it would apply only to the original owner. Smells like, (sniff, sniff), litigation.
Additionally, can anyone actually find the so called "10 year rule", where supposedly a manufacturer must provide replacement parts for 10 years? I have searched the web, and I find lots of forums discussing this "law", but no evidence of the actual laws existence.


----------



## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (itsallbeendonebefore)*

The mileage on my car is right around 54k.


----------



## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (ruddyone)*

I will definitely keep you up to date. I have not heard from the service advisor yet but hopefully I'll get a diagnosis later today.


----------



## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

Does anyone know by VIN number or build date, when the strut design change occured? My 2004 W12 has 112,000 miles on it and is going strong....but I don't want to say that too loud and jinx myself.


----------



## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

Ok it is the left front strut so this affects all of the struts/controller. The extended warranty person is coming out tommorow morning to look at it and determine a course of action. I'll make a post tomorrow on what he/she says.


----------



## brosen (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

Somebody knows what is the specific problem with the suspension ?


----------



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Suspension issue (brosen)*

I have been told by the VW guy that the seals start to leak air, so the thing goes flat and the car hits the stops. Evidently there is no repair possible.


----------



## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jack Orr)*

Just got off the phone with my service advisor, Keith, at Park Cities VW. To my surprise, and elation, RealDriver picked up the whole repair! The total repair went down to about $8,500 due to the struts being $1,600 versus $2,400 (maybe the stronger dollar?). Again, this is for all for air assembly/controller/labor. I will be thanking Keith at Park Cities VW for helping to assist with this. Thank you for all of your input and I hope this paved the way for any similar problems you may encounter.


----------



## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

Thanks for the update... much appreciated. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## brosen (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

That's great news, I just bought the VW Real Driver for my car






















Do you have the Platinum version of Real Driver ?


_Modified by brosen at 12:49 PM 7-24-2009_


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

Jonathan:
Thanks for the update. That's great news for you as well as many of us with the same potential catastrophe. 
Was there any issue of whether you were the original owner or not?


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: Suspension issue (Stinky999)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stinky999* »_
Additionally, can anyone actually find the so called "10 year rule", where supposedly a manufacturer must provide replacement parts for 10 years? I have searched the web, and I find lots of forums discussing this "law", but no evidence of the actual laws existence.

Just a bump...it appears the "Ten Year" law is still a mystery at this point?


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (Stinky999)*

Roger:
I also spent some time "searching" for the law and couldn't find anything. I haven't given up yet but surely there must be some Phaeton owners out there that are lawyers. A lawyer might have a better idea where to look. But maybe all the lawyers are driving Bentleys.


----------



## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jxander)*

Jim, there was no difference to me being the second owner. It didn't come up.


----------



## Schkymies (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jxander)*

My lawyer friend was going to go find the law (via Lexus/Nexus I think) and I hope to get a response in the next few days.


----------



## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

About the "10 year law".....
I work in the automotive supplier business, and we are contractually required to have the "ability" to supply replacement parts for 10 years after the part has gone from regular production to service. For us this doesn't mean we need to have parts on the shelf, we just need to retain the ability to manufacture them if it becomes necessary. 
As for the struts on these Phaetons, if I could choose which one I'd want on my car it would of course be the new-and-improved one, not the old "failed" design.
So as I hear it, if one old strut bites the dust - they all must be replaced becasue there is no compatibility between the old and new systems. So when an old strut fails, the onwer usually pays for one new strut and VW usually picks up the costs of the rest of the struts and controller. Is this right?
For those of us with high mileage cars that are out of warranty....does this same deal apply? I think it should....


----------



## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (testarossaguy)*

Is this issue happening more often on the W12's?


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: Suspension issue (testarossaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *testarossaguy* »_About the "10 year law".....
I work in the automotive supplier business, and we are contractually required to have the "ability" to supply replacement parts for 10 years after the part has gone from regular production to service. For us this doesn't mean we need to have parts on the shelf, we just need to retain the ability to manufacture them if it becomes necessary. 
As for the struts on these Phaetons, if I could choose which one I'd want on my car it would of course be the new-and-improved one, not the old "failed" design.
So as I hear it, if one old strut bites the dust - they all must be replaced becasue there is no compatibility between the old and new systems. So when an old strut fails, the onwer usually pays for one new strut and VW usually picks up the costs of the rest of the struts and controller. Is this right?
For those of us with high mileage cars that are out of warranty....does this same deal apply? I think it should....



Yes, I understand how the strut issue has been handled in practice. I'm just curious about the existince of an actual law that requires manufacturers to supply replacement parts for 10 years. I'll be curious to see any proof that this exists.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

Hello Jonathan,
There is a thread entitled "Problem Obtaining Replacement Air Springs". I believe it used to be included in the table of contents page, but I can't seem to fnd it there. Fortunately, a search provided this link:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3456250
I believe the thread addresses the problem you are all discussing here, and that you will find that the subject has been thoroughly investigated, dissected, and resolved.








Regards,
Ron


_Modified by remrem at 7:22 AM 7-25-2009_


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (chrisj428)*

Hi Chris,
If I'm correct in concluding that this discussion is in fact on the same subject, do you think perhaps this thread is a candidate to be merged with the aforementioned thread (see my post above)? 
Also, am I correct that the thread used to appear on the TOC, but no longer does? When you look at the heading, it even says "TOC", yet when I conduct a "Ctrl F" search on the TOC page using the key words "air" or "spring" or "obtaining", etc. it doesn't locate the subject








Regards,
Ron


----------



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Suspension issue (Jxander)*

Many years ago congress passed a law requiring ALL manufacturers of consumer products to maintain a parts inventory for their products for seven years. This applied to a refrigerator from Sears or a car from Buick, etc.
This law was not specific to cars, and I don't know where the 10 years came from. Maybe there was a later law mandating 10 years for cars- I don't know.


----------



## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: Suspension issue (Schkymies)*

How many miles on your Phaeton? Is it over 50k? I think the Air suspension should be replaced if it's defective regardless of Wear and Tear and 50k (under).


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Suspension issue (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_[T]his thread is a candidate to be merged with the aforementioned thread?

Ron,
Done.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (chrisj428)*

Well I wish I'd found this thread before saying "no thanks" to the extended warranty offer last year (~$5k for 5 years). I first noticed the clunking in my 2004 V8 about 6 months ago (~57k miles), and although it's not a LOT worse now (63k), it is getting slightly more noticeable. At the 60k service I had it investigated and the tech said it was possibly the control arm bushing. I suppose that's still a possibility, but I doubt it! After perusing this thread, my service contact at the local dealer is investigating how it's being handled by VW for second owner vehicles.....


----------



## mlong1 (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: Suspension issue (invisiblewave)*

Can you help on the description of the clunk noise. Is it at speed or low speed or as you turn?


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (mlong1)*

Is that your car that's for sale?
I only hear the noise on one particular road, it's the stone road I'm forced to drive on the way to the drop zone where I skydive. It's about half a mile long and I take it at < 20 mph, and it seems to happen when I go over the potholes. I haven't driven it since I came across this thread, so I haven't paid a hell of a lot of attention to it. I think it's possible that it's still just a normal artifact of the suspension movement over that kind of terrain, but it also sounds exactly like the description posted here prior to strut seal failure. It sounds and feels exactly as if there's something heavy that's loose on the bottom of the car, and which bangs against the floor right under the driver's feet. It's not a hard bang in the cabin, but it feels as if it might be fairly hard but getting muffled by the structure & insulation. It's nothing to do with turning the wheel, and it's at low speed.


----------



## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (invisiblewave)*

Logically speaking, I doubt the seals of the strut would make a clunking noise. Noises like that are more likely coming from worn ball joints, bushings, or even subframe mounts. Seals either leak or they don't. In a catastrophic event, you'll most likely hear it blow and then sink on one corner as reported by some. I believe in the event of a slow leak, the offending corner will sink, the car will try to raise the offending corner itself to compensate even if the ignition is off when it's not sleeping. Once it runs out of air reserve, it will not be able to raise the car without the compressors running. 
Damon


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (dlouie)*

Right, but in the case of a slow leak, it might cause the shock to bottom out over a bump. If you look back through this topic you'll find a post where he describes the exact same noise, and on diagnosis of the problem, the strut needed to be replaced.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Updated info from Phaeton Customer Care on 2004 suspension strut situation*

I wasn't sure where to post this so people would see it, but feel free to move it if this position is inappropriate. _I appended this post to the existing discussion about air suspension component replacement, so as to keep all the information in one place - Michael_
I called the customer care line after hearing an undiagnosed clunking from my front left corner. The PCC rep couldn't have been clearer with her information. They do, indeed, have a procedure in place now for 2004 vehicles with the obsolete struts. In the case of failure of one strut, they pay for the other three struts, and also consider making a contribution towards the cost of the failing unit (which sounded to me to be a sort of acknowledgement that there is a problem with them). Being a second owner, not having a warranty, or having bought the car from somewhere other than an official VW dealer have no bearing on it whatsoever because, as she explained, the problem is that the parts are no longer available, which is their problem, not ours.
The only exception seemed to be in the case of accident damage. The situation with that was a little less clear cut, but the situation seemed to be that they wouldn't pay for the damaged struts, but they would pay for the undamaged ones if those need to be replaced because of the "out of stock" parts situation. Presumably that's because the insurance would pick up the cost of the accident damage anyway.
Hope this helps anyone else who's experiencing sleepless nights! I really love this car and I want to keep it!


_Modified by PanEuropean at 4:28 PM 10-22-2009_


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Suspension issue (invisiblewave)*

Here's the updated info I just received from PCC.
I called the customer care line after hearing an undiagnosed clunking from my front left corner. The PCC rep couldn't have been clearer with her information. They do, indeed, have a procedure in place now for 2004 vehicles with the obsolete struts. In the case of failure of one strut, they pay for the other three struts, and also consider making a contribution towards the cost of the failing unit (which sounded to me to be a sort of acknowledgement that there is a problem with them). Being a second owner, not having a warranty, or having bought the car from somewhere other than an official VW dealer have no bearing on it whatsoever because, as she explained, the problem is that the parts are no longer available, which is their problem, not ours.
The only exception seemed to be in the case of accident damage. The situation with that was a little less clear cut, but the situation seemed to be that they wouldn't pay for the damaged struts, but they would pay for the undamaged ones if those need to be replaced because of the "out of stock" parts situation. Presumably that's because the insurance would pick up the cost of the accident damage anyway.


----------



## Jim Morris (Nov 8, 2008)

*Re: Updated info from Phaeton Customer Care on 2004 suspension strut situation (invisiblewave)*

I wonder if this also applies in Europe, anyone know?


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: Updated info from Phaeton Customer Care on 2004 suspension strut situation (invisiblewave)*

Thanks for the info. I'll sleep better at night knowing that is the case. I'm proud of VW for "stepping up to the plate" on that issue. Manufacturer's always have the option of the hard line approach and leaving you with only one option - the legal route which will probably cost you more than the repair.








Hopefully they'll receive some customer goodwill from their position.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Updated info from Phaeton Customer Care on 2004 suspension strut situation (Jim Morris)*

You could probably call and ask. Mine hasn't been diagnosed, so far it's just a suspicion based on the symptoms I read on this site, but they were well aware of the situation and, surprisingly, willing to answer a hypothetical question in quite a lot of detail.
I took a good look at the front struts earlier, and even without lifting the car you can read the part number label (3D0-616-040-Q in my case) and also see where the cable enters the strut near the top which, according to the information in the main thread, is where the seal fails. I can't see any sign of leakage for failure on mine, but I don't know whether or not you'd be able to eyeball it anyway.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Updated info from Phaeton Customer Care on 2004 suspension strut situation (Jxander)*

I've got some mixed feelings about the PCC line at the moment. On the one hand I'm very relieved that they will cover the other three struts should one fail, but on the other I feel that's the very least they ought to do. I was also somewhat disappointed with them last week when they declined to assist with the variable intake arm breakage, which is obviously a design/manufacturing defect. The only other experience I have with manufacturer out-of-warranty claims is with Porsche and Nissan, Porsche replaced a failed clutch on a 944 Turbo free of charge which surprised the hell out of me, and yesterday Nissan replaced the catalytic converter on my girlfriend's Altima, despite it being 7 months past the legally-required 8 year warranty period. You're right though, it's a hell of a lot better than having to resort to an attorney, which if you were faced with the full repair cost, you'd almost be forced to do.
Anyway, it's nice to have that "Phaeton feeling" back when I'm driving the car. I know you know what I mean!










_Modified by invisiblewave at 1:30 PM 10-22-2009_


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I have been very disappointed in PCC of late. I've tried to work with them on behalf of a friend interested in buying a pre-owned Phaeton. The staff is obviously less skilled, not as well versed in anything Phaeton and terrible about returning promised calls. I sincerely hope VW still monitors these forums, if they are serious about reintroducing the Phaeton in the US, the first thing they need to do is address customer service in the stores and at PCC.
*rant over*
PC


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

That definitely wasn't my experience with them. I've absolutely no complaints about their knowledge, politeness or the speed with which they returned my calls. You can tell, too, that the people at the other end aren't your usual customer "service" people, they're intelligent, polite, and even managed to sound sympathetic! I missed their first call this morning, but she left a very details voicemail. When I called back, she wasn't available, but she returned the call within 5 minutes of me putting the phone down.
I hope they DO reintroduce the Phaeton, otherwise I'll have to move back to Europe when I finally need another one. If the last couple of days has taught me anything, it's that there ain't no going back!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (invisiblewave)*

*Archival Note: * - related post - 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (suspension is discussed about halfway down the first page)


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks, I think that must be the only suspension discussion I hadn't already found in the last couple of weeks. My vehicle's going in on tuesday to see if they can diagnose the sound it makes. When I suggested waiting to see if it got any worse, after hearing directly from VW that they would cover the other three struts even for second owners, the service guy dropped a large hint that I should have it looked at now in case VW change their minds at a later date. I don't know how likely that is, but I'm hoping now that they do find a problem, otherwise it'll feel as if the sword of Damocles is hanging over me in future and I'll probably end up selling.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (invisiblewave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_...the service guy dropped a large hint that I should have it looked at now in case VW change their minds at a later date.

I think that is at best uninformed speculation on the part of the service guy, and at worst, a self-serving attempt to generate $10K worth of repair business during quiet times in the service department.
VW, like all other manufacturers, has an obligation to support vehicles (with parts availability) for a defined period of time after import, and there is no reason at all to believe that they will not honour that obligation. Everything they have done so far indicates that they are honouring their obligations.
Michael


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Yes, I agree, he might be inclined to lean towards having the work done for something other than altruistic reasons. But on the other hand, you're also guessing that VW will continue to support the suspension upgrade indefinitely, and based on their attitude towards an obvious problem with the intake actuator arms I think there's plenty of reason to think that they're not exactly paragons of virtue either, they're running a business after all, just like the dealer. I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that there might be a time limit on VW's largesse. For me, at that point, it becomes a choice between having the job done now and getting a complete set of gas struts for a couple of grand, or running the car with my fingers crossed that some time in the future I won't be facing a $10k repair bill. I bought the vehicle hoping to keep it long term, so for me it's a pretty easy decision. Assuming they manage to even find a problem, of course!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (invisiblewave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_...you're also guessing that VW will continue to support the suspension upgrade indefinitely, and based on their attitude towards an obvious problem with the intake actuator arms...

Hi Martin:
Provision of components necessary to repair suspension systems and problems with intake actuator arms are two entirely different matters, not related in any way, shape, or form to each other.
Concerning the suspension system components (struts and controller), as has been noted previously, VW cannot - or has chosen not to - supply the original specification struts. To fulfill their obligations to ensure that parts are available for a fixed period of time that is mandated by law (this is believed to be 10 years), they have elected to supply a complete set of replacement struts and a new controller at no charge for parts or labour whenever one strut fails. The owner pays the parts and labour charges for the single failed strut.
Concerning the intake arm actuator, if your vehicle is still within the original manufacturer warranty (4 years or 50,000 miles, bumper to bumper), the intake arm actuator is covered by warranty. If failure of the intake arm actuator creates an emission problem (I have no idea if it does or not), then this part is covered by an even longer emission warranty. Once you are out of warranty, if a part breaks on a car, you have to pay for the part. That's life, it works that way for every make and model of car.
Michael


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I take your point that the two problems are unrelated in that one might be seen as wear and tear, whilst the other is a specific issue relating to the supply of replacement parts. However, I do think they're related in that the frequency of the arm failure (and, admittedly, it's anecdotal evidence, albeit fairly strong anecdotal evidence from here and other VW and Audi forums) points towards a manufacturing or design fault that VW are apparently unwilling to admit to which, in my judgement, makes me hesitant to trust in their support on the strut replacement problem beyond the legally mandated period (be that 10 years or 7, depending on which hearsay you choose to believe).


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I take your point that the two problems are unrelated in that one might be seen as wear and tear, whilst the other is a specific issue relating to the supply of replacement parts. However, I do think they're related in that the frequency of the arm failure (and, admittedly, it's anecdotal evidence, albeit fairly strong anecdotal evidence from here and other VW and Audi forums) points towards a manufacturing or design fault that VW are apparently unwilling to admit to which, in my judgement, makes me hesitant to trust in their support on the strut replacement problem beyond the legally mandated period (be that 10 years or 7, depending on which hearsay you choose to believe).


----------



## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

*Shock absorbers*

Someone said that you cannot (or at least it is not recommended) replace individual shock absorbers on Phaeton. Indeed all 4 have to be done at same time. This has to be crazy. I can see new shock absorbers on german ebay at 500 euros. 
Anyone had any experience of issues with shocks on Phaeton?


----------



## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Shock absorbers (pscocoa)*

Search the first post (Table of Contents) for discussion on this - basically, a quick summary goes like this:
- The air strut was redesigned (in 2005? I think), making the old ones incompatible with the new ones - thus, all 4 had to be replaces along with the controller;
- A few Forum members who have had this happen to them found out that VW will pick up the tab for 3 and the owner pays for 1 - but this is on a case-by-case basis.
I would contact VW and see what they say about your case...


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Shock absorbers (pscocoa)*

It's the MY2004 (and early 2005 I think) vehicles with the problem. The shocks were fitted along with a controller which is specific to those shocks. The following year, the shocks were replaced with a new model and new controller. The new shocks are not compatible with the old controller, and the old shocks are not available (at least in the US, and possibly elsewhere). Therefore, if you have one failing shock, you can't put the new model in because of the controller so you have to change all 4 AND the controller.


----------



## vah (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: Shock absorbers (invisiblewave)*

if you have an extended warranty, they will replace all 4 as well.
i had to do it a few month ago.
victor


----------



## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks to all. I do not have a problem as yet - I get a new Phaeton on 1st March - but colleagues are going on about running costs. This info is very helpful to put things in perspective and deal with misinformed criticism.
Are shocks at 500 euros though about right price?


----------



## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Shock absorbers (vah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vah* »_if you have an extended warranty, they will replace all 4 as well.
i had to do it a few month ago.
victor

Which warranty? From?


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (pscocoa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pscocoa* »_
Are shocks at 500 euros though about right price?

That sounds like a pretty good deal for the part. Of course there's labour on top of that. When I researched it, I figured about $2000-$2500 per corner including parts and labour. If you want to double-check the price of the part, just call the parts dept of your local dealer and ask them.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (invisiblewave)*

Since only one usually fails, out of four... I wonder if people will sell their used shocks to those of us looking for just one or two of the old style?


----------



## vah (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: Shock absorbers (GS340)*

i don't even know which warranty.
i got it when i bought the car at autobarn (evanston), and i service the car there, so they have all of the info on their system.
they bill the warranty, and i have $100 deductibles.
victor


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Since only one usually fails, out of four... I wonder if people will sell their used shocks to those of us looking for just one or two of the old style?

Good point! What happens to the old shocks??


----------



## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (invisiblewave)*

So is there a way to take care of the shocks to make them last longer? Besides avoiding potholes, that is. And what is the typical expected life of these parts?


----------



## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

invisiblewave said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Since only one usually fails, out of four... I wonder if people will sell their used shocks to those of us looking for just one or two of the old style?
> 
> Good point! What happens to the old shocks??


People (like me) sell them on eBay or this forum. I have three now in my garage, thanks to a misdiagnosis by the dealership.


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## DynomiteTT (Jan 10, 2007)

anyone have a part number for the recall updated air suspension controller? Id like to try to find one to see if the car can be lowered via vagcom with this. Unlike the NA one


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## Hazphaeton (Jul 30, 2012)

*VW Customer Relations refused to pay for the replacement.*

Hello everyone. My first post. 

The actual name of these things are "dampers". One broke, and VW dealer is charging me $1700 each for the 4, as well as $1000 for the new controller. Car is still at the dealer awaiting parts. 

I contacted VW Customer Relations at the number suggested by the moderator. I relayed some of the info from this forum. They replied, 24 hours later, that because of the high mileage (180K km, 110,000 miles) they cannot do anything. 

The car has been very well serviced by Richmond Hill VW for the last 2 years, even though I purchased it from another VW dealer. I guess the mileage is high and it is 8 years old!


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

You may still be able to source a used one that would match your existing 3 from ebay.com, ebay.de, or allegro.pl (use google Chrome on the latter for in-line translation of the web page) 

I also read in a post (maybe earlier on in this one?) that a company in Florida can rebuild the defective damper, but I don't know if anyone has tried this or not...


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi, 

I expect you found this thread: New pheaton air struts lead!!! which has some handy links. 

The VW parts catalogue calls them a Gas Strut, but I haven't heard them called that on the forum. 

Chris


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## Hazphaeton (Jul 30, 2012)

*Strut replacement*

On my invoice , they are called gas/air struts when describing the problem. In the parts ordered section they are called dampers. Here is the first one, the other three have slightly different numbers. 

1. VWC 3D0616040AD Damper 1658.00 ($) 
1. VWC 3D0907553C Control 1191.00 

I could have found the one replacement, but I thought the others will start failing given the high mileage. Plus I really wanted to see how it feels with the new suspension, since the old one made some noises at low speed over speed bumps.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Noises from the suspension are more likely to be due to bushings in the control arms and anti-roll bar going bad - all things that can be easily (and cheaply) sorted out. 

Harry


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

How is it done cheaply???:what:


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

By doing it yourself  

(and in comparison to replacing four struts and the controller it's a bargain...) 

Harry


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Hmmmm.... The bush pressing didn't look that easy to me, and didn't someone else report they'd broken something off whilst trying to undo bolts?? 

On the other hand, my brother-in-law has just bought a house nearby with a 3 car garage and has installed air conditioning in said facility......


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Hazphaeton said:


> Hello everyone. My first post.
> 
> The actual name of these things are "dampers". One broke, and VW dealer is charging me $1700 each for the 4, as well as $1000 for the new controller. Car is still at the dealer awaiting parts.
> 
> ...


 Wow - this is a bit disconcerting. This appears to be the first time VW Customer Care has declined a claim on the old air struts. That means owners confronted with this repair have to spend almost 70% of the value of the car or become creative and have the strut rebuilt or source a used replacement, probably from abroad. 

I know I for one have been going to VW dealers exclusively for service (Phaeton & Touareg) hoping that the loyalty I was showing would help with a strut repair if necessary. I actually would prefer doing all my scheduled maintenance. That way I know every item on the list is done and done correctly.  I was hoping that as the cars aged, the policy might not be as generous. However, I was not prepared for a switch from almost all on VW to nothing. 

I wonder if Customer Care would share details of the air strut policy. From this post it's not 10 years irrespective of mileage. But what is the mileage limit? 

Forgive my ramblings - just assessing the risk of continued ownership. Replacing one failed strut or so out of pocket is just business as usual for luxury car ownership. But all four and a controller at retail prices is a killer given the value of the car. Haven't really digested the rebuilt or used options at this time. 

Jim X


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree. This information puts long-term ownership in a whole new light.


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## mlong1 (Dec 6, 2007)

Jim, 

I had all the air struts replaced about 18 months ago. By the way, replacing the struts does not take care of squeking noises- only replacing the suspension bushings took care of that issue for my car. Anyway, I never called the customer service line even though my car was also already out of warranty. At that time, I think I was pretty close to 90k miles on it. 

My dealer took care of the whole thing with VW. Like you, I have developed a good relationship with them over the years and they do all the maintenance in all our vehicles. I believe that a long standing relationship is an essential aspect of improving your odds of having matters like these approved. Particularly when there is no official "rule" that I am aware of. 

I agree with you, fostering a good relationship with your dealer is important as these vehicles age. I know it is not always an easy thing to do, but it may really help mitigate wallet abuse in the future... :laugh: 

Marcos


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

> I agree with you, fostering a good relationship with your dealer is important as these vehicles age. I know it is not always an easy thing to do, but it may really help mitigate wallet abuse in the future...


 
Marcos: 

Thanks for the info. I think VWs policy has been very generous in the past, as they have taken full responsibility for the change in parts that has necessitated replacing all 4 dampers and the controller. I don't know how much of this has been pushed by legal concerns versus moral considerations. I suspect a bit of both. If their legal responsibility is phasing out as the Phaetons age and "wear out" with increased mileage I'm hoping the moral considerations come into play and they at least partially assist good customers with the update. Speaking for myself, I'd be willing and happy to pay $5k-$6k in this situation, just to get all brand new updated dampers. That way going forward is merely replacing one failed damper at a time. No big deal in the luxury car world.  

Jim X


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I know the PCC line look to help people they see as loyal VW owners. They paid 50% of the cost of the steering wiring repair on mine, but only after questioning me about how long I'd had the car and how many VW's I'd owned in the past (three). Probably also helped that the woman on the other end was Egyptian and I was able to say a few words to her in her native language!


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## Hazphaeton (Jul 30, 2012)

Yes, Jxander, I agree with you, particularly about the loyalty part. I thought there should have been at least some token gesture, like paying for the $1200 controller which is not mileage dependent. I have paid about $10,000 to the same dealership for maintenance such as timing belt, batteries, brakes, etc, this while under the extended third party warranty sold to be by VW. The Warranty company (Coverage One paid about $3000, I paid $3600 for the warranty). 

But my decision was simple. Either no Phaeton or $10K to keep a car that I know, and perhaps experience a perfect air ride for a while. 

Remember alternatives exist to pay for that one corner. But I knew that I would have a sense of apprehension unless I replaced all of them. I wanted to experience the car with the confidence in it that I had before. It is a most beautiful ride. 

Today, VW delivered to my home the 4 old parts and the old controller. They look in perfect condition after 180,000 km. Except for that slight damage on one damper, it looks so simple to fix, I am ready to provide members any info regarding part numbers, etc.


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## Hazphaeton (Jul 30, 2012)

Marcos, I am so discouraged by your point about the squeeking noise! I was hoping it will go away with the new suspension. Mine happened when it was very cold or after a carwash. It sounded like water being squished. Will let you know when I get the car back if that sound is still there.


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

Hazphaeton said:


> Marcos, I am so discouraged by your point about the squeeking noise! I was hoping it will go away with the new suspension. Mine happened when it was very cold or after a carwash. It sounded like water being squished. Will let you know when I get the car back if that sound is still there.


 That particular squeak is usually anti-roll-bar inner bushes. Unfortunately, they are integral to the ARB which is about £160/$200. I sprayed mine with lots of silicone spray and it stopped it. It is concealed above the plastic tray inderneath. You could also use cheap and nasty furniture polish as this is just silicone.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Whatever the solution, I can confirm that Marcos's car drives like new compared with mine.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

I know we have discussed Arnott Industries before as a supplier of air suspension components for various brands. However, up to now they have not offered remanufactured dampers(struts) for the Phaeton. Previously they stated that they were working on it and obtaining old cores was critical. However, given that counting on VW to continue their policy of "you pay for the failed damper and we pick up the other three and the controller" is becoming a risky proposition, I contacted Arnott Industries by email. Well there is good news. They stated that they would be available later this month(August 2012) and price would be at or below the Bentley damper prices on their website. Their stock is limited as they were in need of "salvage" dampers to remanufacture. So if anyone has old dampers to sell they may want to contact them. I used the email link in the Contact Us section on their website and received a quick reply. 

The link to their website is http://www.arnottindustries.com/ 

Jim X


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

That is great news! I will sleep a little better knowing that a single strut failure won't put me $10k in the hole.


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

Looking here... 
http://www.air-suspension-shop.com/index.php?k=129&lang=eng 
It looks as though they list the same part number for Phaeton and Bentley.


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## Hazphaeton (Jul 30, 2012)

My 2004 now has the new suspension. A very marked improvement in ride compared to the way it felt before the right/front damper failed. 

VW dealer helped by rushing one back-order damper from Germany to Toronto, the other three came from Wisconsin. The dealer also delivered the 4 old dampers to my home in the wooden crates of the new ones. 

The broken one had the rubber sleeve shredded out, i.e blown from inside. Perhaps punctured by a road hazard? The other ones look okay, but I think that after 110,000 miles they may need replacement or rebuilding. 

One odd thing; the tech set the threshold to automatically lower the car at about 90 KPH (instead of the previous 120KPH. I do not mind, but I wonder why and if it is an error. I asked the dealer, awaiting reply.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

My MY2006 lowers the suspension at about 65mph if I have previously set it to high. 

But I don't know if this is the same lowering action that is applied for high speed cruising, I believe that is an additional lowering. 

Chris


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## Hazphaeton (Jul 30, 2012)

Correct , Chris: 

First lowering should be at 75MPH (120KPH) then another lowering at 87MPH(140KPH), The second lowering is to a level that is below the default/normal low. This comes from the VW description of the phaeton suspension system, so I guess it applies to all MYs. 

Haz


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## Bob S. (Jul 10, 2009)

Hazphaeton 

I actually saw your car at Richmond Hill when I took my Phaeton in for service. I asked Mike about it and he filled me in on the tale of woe. At the time I thought....oh oh. Today I got an alarm in my Phaeton...."Level failure. Workshop" 
I'm hoping its one of the Phaeton control bugs that often crop up and go away..but I'm not so sure. Its sitting low in the back end and high in the front end. When I push the ride adjust button nothing happens. It doesn't even show up on the screen. And the ride height button is flashing. Very odd. 
If I do have a problem I wonder if Richmond Hill would install one (or two) of your old shocks. 

Bob


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## Hazphaeton (Jul 30, 2012)

Hello Bob, 

I am not an expert on this, but it seems to me your problem is a bit different. I think it may be the control unit. Would like to see what VW says. It may also be the level sensors, one of which was damaged after I hit a big pot hole. It was about $300 to replace on one front corner. The warning was something like "sensor(not sure it said sensor) level fault". It was fixed a few months ago. 

What happened to me is this: I got a "running gear warning" just for a few seconds about a month before the big stuff happened. On the day it happened, while parked, I got the warning again. As I neared my home, on a very small pot hole, I heard something pop. In my garage I tried the level controls, and what you described happened to me, i.e. flashing then nothing. 

I was going to either keep the dampers in case I buy another low km 2004, or put them up for sale in this forum. They seem to be okay (but do have 180K on them) except for the front passenger side one. I also have the control unit. Old damaged cores are in demand by re-builders and they pay $200 for them. You have that option where they can even rebuild yours, promising 48 hour turnaround. 

Let me know what happens, and if you need them. Not sure how to give you my email in this forum. 

Haz


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## Hazphaeton (Jul 30, 2012)

Bob, 

One more thing, after the pop sound and after a few minutes the warning changed to: "Stop. Level is too low" or something like that. So, your problem may be much less than mine. Make sure you close everything and lock the car. Then try it next morning!


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## Bob S. (Jul 10, 2009)

Hazphaeton 

You were right. I thought I'd try to cycle it through a raising and lowering exercise. I made the mistake of doing this as I was on the 401. It went down fine. And then set it to raise. Bad move. The front end just kept going up until it hit maximum extension. This effectively eliminated the shocks...to the point where the front end was solid. I drove it slowly home. It rode like a buckboard. Every bump bounced me up and down. 
When I got home I had a look underneath (which was easy because I could almost walk underneath the front end it was so high). And as you say...the arm to the driver's side level control unit was hanging there. I kind of stuck it on the ball joint where it should attach to the control arm and was now able to lower the front end. 
So, I think I'm lucky and its the $300 fix you had to do. 
At one point in the raising and lowering I got the same message you mention "running gear warning" which scared the heck out of me. It came on for about 1 sec and then disappeared. After that it was just the "level fault workshop" warning. So hopefully I'll be ok. I'll find out later today. 

Bob


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## Voxtron (Aug 14, 2012)

*Do they ever NOT fail?*

I was considering buying a 04 w12 until I started reading this forum. I get the impression that the air struts fail on virtually all of these, and that it will essentially total the car when that happens. i can't afford to buy the car and then turn around and pay another $10,000 in three months. IS my impression that these things all fail incorrrect? Are ther any 04s on the road with any mileage that have NOT had this problem? I really want to buy the car, but not if it is for an additional $10,000.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Voxtron said:


> I was considering buying a 04 w12 until I started reading this forum. I get the impression that the air struts fail on virtually all of these, and that it will essentially total the car when that happens. i can't afford to buy the car and then turn around and pay another $10,000 in three months. IS my impression that these things all fail incorrrect? Are ther any 04s on the road with any mileage that have NOT had this problem? I really want to buy the car, but not if it is for an additional $10,000.


Voxtron:

I think it is unfair to say that all the early version struts are flawed and have all failed. I for one have a 2004 with the original air struts. From following this issue I know there are lots of other owners of 04 Phaeton's that also are driving on the original air suspension. I'm just under 80k miles and some have more miles than I do.

I think most owner's concern is that the air struts(dampers) will not last forever - not just on a Phaeton but on any car with air suspension. For most vehicles that means replacing one failed strut or possible two to have matched performance for the axle. However, as you know one failed strut on a 2004 and early 2005 Phaeton necessitates the replacement of all four plus the controller. Other options exist such as used replacements and rebuilt units if so inclined. 

Air suspension on a Phaeton seems as reliable or more reliable than that on other luxury cars. It's just the big ticket time bomb that keeps many of us from sleeping well at night. I personally would also be very reluctant to buy one now. That's because the 2004s are eight years old and have likely pretty high miles on them. If you buy and keep the car for say another five years, I think the chances of air suspension trouble is fairly high.

Don't want to discourage you as Phaeton's are great cars. Also it is possible Phaeton's, especially the W12s, may hold value better than most cars.

Jim X


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Other options exist such as used replacements and rebuilt units if so inclined.


I don't think folks should be too shy of using rebuilt '04 struts to keep costs down.

On other vehicles, most people are happy to rely on 'remanufactured' alternators, transmissions, axles and other moving components.

A split gaiter is the likely point of failure. Any wariness on our part about the service life of replacement gaiters is probably only because these things have only appeared in the last year or so, and we have no reports of them as yet. Also, we don't know who is manufacturing these flexible parts. If they are the same source as OEM I can't see a problem.

There must be tens of thousands of Phaetons, Touaregs, Bentley CGT and FS and many others running on original equipment struts from the same factory as 'ours' (whoever and wherever that may be!)

Chris


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Paximus said:


> A split gaiter is the likely point of failure. Any wariness on our part about the service life of replacement gaiters is probably only because these things have only appeared in the last year or so, and we have no reports of them as yet. Also, we don't know who is manufacturing these flexible parts. If they are the same source as OEM I can't see a problem.
> 
> Chris


Chris: I agree and I think the rebuilt units have only been around for a short period of time because the rebuilders were previously unable to source replacement parts. The technical knowledge and experience to rebuild has always been in place. Also I think the rebuilders advertise that parts are from Continental and are OEM. The only problem I see is that VW dealers will not be willing to install rebuilt units, so you are dependent on DIY or an independent mechanic. So if I know I would go the rebuilt route, I'd probably start doing more maintenance DIY and look to establish a good relationship with an independent shop that works on lots of A8 Audis with air suspension and the 4.2l V8. 

If I'm driving locally, I don't worry too much about a strut failure. Despite the headaches, I think I could deal with it. However, if I am 1500 miles from home somewhere in the backwoods and a strut fails. What am I to do? I'd like to think I could have it towed to the closest VW dealer, pay $4500 for two replacement struts and be on my way. However, that's not possible with these early models. Just projecting out loud. 

Jim X


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## Voxtron (Aug 14, 2012)

*replacements*

So what is the cost of non VW struts and are they readily availble? If you could get four of them, what would that cost installed?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

They're about $1000 a piece, but the point is you wouldn't need 4, they'd work with the old controller so you'd only need one. I'm with Jim, I'd also have no problem putting a remanufactured unit on. Mine's at 86k now with no sign of any strut problems (crossing fingers).


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## Voxtron (Aug 14, 2012)

So my question remains. do these replacements actually exist and where can they be purchased?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, in the recent threads on the subject, there are links.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Also, here are some other discussions that relate to this same topic:


2004-Phaeton-Failure-of-one-Suspension-Strut-(replacement-of-all-required)


Ride Height feature not working.


Somewhere in the forum, there is a discussion of the possibility of getting the air shock absorbers rebuilt by an independent shop - fellow forum member InvisibleWave posted this information - but I can't find the thread in which this information is given. If anyone happens to know where that thread is, please post a link to it here.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

richnrita said:


> ...Any ideas?


My *guess *is that you have a leak in the air suspension system. If it is affecting more than one corner of the car, it should not be too hard to track down and fix.

In principle, unless you have more than one failed air strut (not probable), if more than one corner of the car goes down after the car has been sitting for a long time, that suggests a leak in the system rather than a strut failure.

The leak is undesirable, because the Phaeton air suspension system (unlike the Touareg) is designed to be a sealed system that re-uses the same air all the time. If you have a leak and are constantly drawing in outside air, you will get moisture in the system, and long term, that is not good. But, short term, I don't think you will need to replace air struts - just find the leak and fix it.

Michael


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## georgibox (Dec 6, 2012)

Anybody with air suspension problem, check this link. 

http://www.airbagit.com/v/vspfiles/airstrutsdot_Layout-1.html?gclid=CLr54fCsvrQCFUeRPAodB3gA3Q

Found it incidentally looking for replacement.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi,

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for that new link!

That company in Arizona actually lists 2004 front struts for $695 here.

Cheers,
Chris


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## tsa1 (Jan 1, 2013)

I'm looking at purchasing a 2004 V8 with about 94k miles,is there any way a VW can advise me if the struts are the 04 part number or the newer replacement struts? Could I look at the struts and check? The car has been serviced at the VW dealer all of it's life as per the Carfax. I'm looking for a w12 but those are hard to come by 

Thank you in advance. I was not expecting so much support for such a rare vehicle especially here in North America. I still remember when this car came out I was in High School and brushed it off, but now that I'm older I just want a more reliable comfortable car (i'm 6'3) than say a e66 BMW 750i or MB S-class.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

To the best of my knowledge, the only way to determine if you have the 'new' or the 'original' struts is to look at the letter suffix at the end of the controller part number.

You can do this by scanning the car with a diagnostic scan tool. The suspension controller is controller 34.

I suppose you could also physically inspect the controller (look at the label on the controller), but it is located behind (outboard of) and above the left battery, and I think it would be quite difficult to inspect the label on the controller unless you were quite familiar with how to remove the fuse and relay panel above the left battery.

Look at the last 4 digits of the VIN - if they are lower than 8349, then for sure you have the original specification struts. The only significance of 8349 is that that is my VIN, and I know my car has the original specification struts. I don't know at what VIN the new struts cut in, although you might be able to determine that fairly easily by asking a VW Parts Department specialist - they might be able to look up the struts in the ETKA (Electronic Parts Catalog) and tell you when the changeover took place.

Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> To the best of my knowledge, the only way to determine if you have the 'new' or the 'original' struts is to look at the letter suffix at the end of the controller part number.


You might also be able to read the part numbers from the labels affixed to the struts themselves. There are quite a few variants, so you need to pay attention to the last letter. 



> Look at the last 4 digits of the VIN - if they are lower than 8349, then for sure you have the original specification struts.


According to ETKA: the relevant change of strut type took place from VIN 3D-5-008 000. This code translates to chassis number 8000 of model year 2005 (this car should have been manufactured some time in the fall 2004). The "old" struts were dropped from parts catalogue on 01/11/2008. 

What is very positive, though, is that there seems to be a growing supply (and obviously not much demand!) for the older type struts as used parts. They used to go for a few hundred euros in ebay.de. Lately, some have been listed for as little as 100 euros and have been for sale with that price for quite some time!

Personally, I have the older struts and have much bigger potential issues to worry about in the Phaeton. 6-speed transmission and paint blistering issues would both be a much more serious/expensive issue to tackle than sourcing a used or remanufactured air spring. And I will not even think about any potential "big block" engine issues - I have the V6TDI...

Jouko


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## tsa1 (Jan 1, 2013)

Very useful information! I have much more research to do on this car. My previous choice was a 750i, but it seems BMW cannot build a V8 that is not a leak monster, not to mention the terrible ZF transmission on that car oh and the Logic 7 Amp goes out, depending on use, about every two years.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I am under the impression that BMW use the same range of ZF transmissions as VW and Audi (and Jaguar/Mercedes/Porsche/Rolls Royce etc), although with different firmware of course.

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

If you stick your head under the front wing with a torch, you can eyeball the serial number on the top of the strut. The VIN range 3D-4-000 001 to 3D-5-008 000 have the struts which are no longer available and which have a serial number of 3D0 616 039 Q (left, 040 for right). 

I'm much less concerned about this issue than I was previously since there are now re-manufactured replacements available, as well as used parts.


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## tsa1 (Jan 1, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> If you stick your head under the front wing with a torch, you can eyeball the serial number on the top of the strut. The VIN range 3D-4-000 001 to 3D-5-008 000 have the struts which are no longer available and which have a serial number of 3D0 616 039 Q (left, 040 for right).
> 
> I'm much less concerned about this issue than I was previously since there are now re-manufactured replacements available, as well as used parts.


It's great to know there is cheaper alternatives now for the 04 Car's suspension than there was a few years ago. (as mentioned earlier in this thread)


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

See also this discussion, in which Chris (Paximus) has provided a table that shows the part numbers for replacement air suspension components -

List of Air Spring Damper (Gas Struts) and Suspension Controller part numbers

Michael


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Hi all,

This month I found that my car is getting too low on the front right side, which is expected for a 2004 car. The front left side is seems to me that it is also has a problem but it might be that the car want to balance itself.

The question is, Shall I order remanufactured struts ( 2 for USD 1,800 shipped to Kuwait) or sell the car? (which is difficult since almost no body “know” the car and I couldn’t get a good trade-in deal for a new car).

Any thought?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

First thing you should do is to diagnose the problem accurately. It sounds like a slow leak, when my strut failed it was instant and unmistakable, so it might not be a strut problem at all. The other thing to check is the software on your controller. Mine is a 2004 vehicle, with 2004 struts, but the 2004 controller is apparently capable of running the new struts as well. I'll post more details as soon as I get the car back, which I'm hoping will be today or tomorrow. The dealer swears it's running fine with one new strut and three old ones.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Well, last year I have noticed the front right side getting slightly lower than other sides when I park the car for more than a week. But now in less than 24 hrs, the car is almost slammed on that side. 
the only other thing is one of the air lines on the rear left side which was compressed by mistake with the jack by a technician. That was more than five years ago and the line is not leaky. I have to check it again.

Any other thing I can check before ordering new struts ?


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Kuwaity said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This month I found that my car is getting too low on the front right side, which is expected for a 2004 car. The front left side is seems to me that it is also has a problem but it might be that the car want to balance itself.
> 
> ...



Just replace that front right shock with a refurbished one and you will be okay for long time. Very common front right failure.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

BTW My software is 1101 and my struts are 3D0 616 39/40Q.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Kuwaity said:


> Well, last year I have noticed the front right side getting slightly lower than other sides when I park the car for more than a week. But now in less than 24 hrs, the car is almost slammed on that side.
> the only other thing is one of the air lines on the rear left side which was compressed by mistake with the jack by a technician. That was more than five years ago and the line is not leaky. I have to check it again.
> 
> Any other thing I can check before ordering new struts ?


It sounds much more like a leak in the lines (which is getting worse) to me than a strut failure. The struts have a bag which holds the air, mine failed when the bag ripped and the front of the car instantly dropped. I seem to remember some failures caused by the grommet leaking where the lines enter the strut near the top.

Your struts are the same serial number as mine. When I get the car back I'll scan it and let you know what the controller software is. The dealer showed me a VW report that he produced when my car went in. I don't know what systems they have, but he put in the car details and it printed out a page showing that my controller had updated software that was capable of running the new struts. When I pick it up, I'll try to get a copy of whatever that report is.

Unless you're really short of cash, I'd be inclined to put on a new strut (assuming that's possible on yours) rather than a remanufactured one. The remanufactured ones I've looked at have pretty short warranties on them, and a significant portion of the cost of replacement is labour. There have been very few (if any) reports that I recall of the new model struts failing, hence I'd rather put one of those on my car than a remanufactured version of a strut we already know has a problem. If your controller won't run the new struts, then I'd be inclined to put on a remanufactured strut, rather than replace all 4.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

The dealer told me that I have to replace all four struts and the control unit. The car is too old it doesn't make sense to me at least to spend too much on it. 

I'll try to use soapy water to check if there are leaks near the struts and along the air lines. 

Any one have a picture showing the starting and the final point of the front air hoses?


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

The dealer is wrong.

Asad fixed his Phaeton by only changing the front right shock. Invisiblewave's VW dealer also changed just one strut... front right, but this is the first time the dealer said his software can handle the new strut...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6054646-Help-Front-suspension-too-low


I can't find the new strut application table that one of the moderator posted. It stated with what software that can use the new strut type.

FOUND IT:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...part-numbers-TOC-done&p=82634359#post82634359


Now we need to find Invisiblewave's suspension post... I think you both got the same software so you can use the new strut type with no problem.


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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Ahmed,

sad to see you are going through the famous strut failure also. I would recommend that you do these things that Chris told me to do. It will help you in troubleshooting and isolating the fault.

1- Using the VCDS software, do the suspension adaption and calibration. insert the real values of the height into each screen when asked by the software. when I did this to my car, all the 3 sides gave a positive response except for the front right strut. So I knew that problem only exist here. Before the adaption both the front were down so I could not point to the problem.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Calibrate)-Phaeton-Suspension-amp-Ride-Height


2- Check the voltage of both of your batteries. specially the Left side. 

I bought both the front strut from this site "airbagit.com" because at that time I did not purchase the VCDS software. I have the refurbished front Right strut still unpacked. if you find out that you need to replace the front right only then I can sell that to you with the same price that I bought it.

Asad


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The dealer did describe my controller as having "updated software". Not sure yet what he meant by that. I did post a full VCDS scan of my car somewhere in the forum, I assume that will have the software level of the suspension controller if someone wants to go and search for it.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Ok, I found it:

Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101 
Coding: 0017700

So, interestingly, it looks as if my car has the same 1101 software version.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> Ok, I found it:
> 
> Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
> Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
> ...



And here is the link to the post...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...y-suspension-question&p=82536382#post82536382

So it looks like Ahmed can just buy the new current strut and install it with no problem. No need for refurbished old strut. He can use either one.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I wouldn't be so hasty. I suspect there's more to the story than that.


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

After reading your posts, and from my experience I believe that I have front right strut with minor internal air leak which causes the car to drop about an inch after 8 hours and about 2 inches after 16 hrs, all was not sudden but developed in about 1 year. The car is still drivable, only two times saw a low level warning after parking the car for 3 days twice. The battery voltage is OK and I also connected it to a charger/maintainer. No air compressor faults but I'm expecting an overheat warning if I did not fix the leak. 
As for the strut replacment , I will not install new strut, as I mentioned earlier it doesn't make sense to me but a renewed strut does make more sense even before checking the other part of the system considering the cost of the renewed strut to the time and effort that will be spent to check all the system. 
Other problems might be cause, line leak, valve, etc. I will try to find out. 

@ Asad, thanks a lot for your offer. As I understand you have changed the right one and the "left is un packed" which I will only know if I need it after changing the right strut, that you already replaced.
And no need to be sad at all, I was expecting air suspension failure since I bought the car. 
Such problems bring a good discussion and after all it's a hobby! 





A side note, I always wanted the face lifted Phaeton the moment I saw it in flesh in Beijing, that's why I frequently mention "selling" the car few times here in this forum. 

One thing holding me back, I'm designing new house (with big garage of course!) and need to get quotations from contractors. I'm expecting high numbers and a new Phaeton is going to hurt the equation if you know what I mean. 

I'm happy to hear any suggestions / recommendations and i will keep updating.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Ok, I got the car back! It's had two alignments but the steering wheel isn't straight, there's more of a clunk when it goes into D, and at idle in D there's now minor vibration through the steering wheel. I also had one downshift clunk on the way back. That's all transmission stuff though.

Here's the skinny on the strut:
Using Chris's table of old & new strut part numbers, my 2004 vehicle is now successfully running 3 old struts and one new one. The left front strut on the car is 3D0 616 039Q and the right front strut is 3D0 616 040 AD. It appears (again from Chris's table), that the 2009-2010 struts are able to work with the early struts on the same controller.
I was also able to obtain a copy of the VW Guided Functions sheet which shows the details of the controller:
It says "In this is a new generation of the level control system control module - J197".
LUFTFDR.-CDC-3C1V0
3D0 907 553B
Software version: 1101
Coding: 17700

So, it's the same controller as before, with the same coding.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Mr. Wave, 
Any idea why VW would just change one strut even though it's not standard protocol? They are usually pretty adamant about following protocol. Why would you even accept this? Wouldn't it be in your best interest to have them do all four struts. My concern would be that the dampening rates are different. The ride height is a non issue because the sensors that control height are external to the strut.

Damon


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's why I have a call in to the helpline who yesterday who, after having me on hold for about 20 minutes in total, had no information whatsoever about changing all 4 struts in the case of the failure of one....... I told them my concern was safety, so hopefully they'll dig far enough to get an answer.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

This entire thread about replacement dampers is outstanding and provides a tremendous resource for owners of early Phaetons. Much thanks to Chris and Michael for taking the lead on this issue. However, there have been many important contributors on this topic over the years. I believe the table that Chris has developed linking air shocks to models, controller hardware, and controller software arms owners with as good if not better information than that most local VW techs possess.

With Invisiblewave's case where one shock was replaced and not the traditional 4 plus a new controller questions everything we know and have been told. Thanks Damon for asking the question we all were thinking and also for Iwave for questioning your situation. We all much to learn from its resolution. 

Jim X


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Things are getting complicated! I'd always thought that, based on my part numbers, my struts were the old type, incompatible with the new controller. The VW helpline are now telling me otherwise. This ties in with something the service adviser said, that Fidelity told him that my struts had previously been replaced. I think this last piece of information is highly suspect because of the serial numbers, and because they said it had been done at a dealer that the car has never been to. I asked for further information, which she didn't have (they used to seem quite knowledgeable, but not anymore), so I asked her to research it further and to find the part number of the older strut which she said would have been incompatible.

So, based on this new information, and looking at Chris's table of strut & controller part numbers, it looks as if the struts ending in N or M may be incompatible with the new controller as well as the old controller running new software, and that the struts ending in Q (which on the document say NAR only), will run on the 1101 (old hardware) controller running either old or new software, and will possibly therefore run on the new controllers also.

I remain to be convinced that some sort of error hasn't been made with my vehicle, but the evidence is stacking up that there hasn't. If she comes back and mentions the N & M part numbers, then I think we may have the answer. I'm also planning to call Fidelity to see if they can shed any light on it.

In terms of the safety of mixing the dampers, I don't really have any concerns. I doubt they'd have made a mistake that compromised safety, and after having thrown the car around a few bends I don't feel anything that would cause me any sleepless nights.

Edit: Had a conversation with Fidelity. Got a very helpful guy on the phone. He confirmed that they had no record of any previous strut changes on my car, but he also said he couldn't find any bulletin about having to change all 4 struts on a 2004 vehicle. He DID, however, say that he was currently working on another claim on a 2006 vehicle where one strut had failed, and due to incompatibility they were changing all 4!!!


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## drbacchues (Aug 25, 2013)

the same happened to me this past Thursday with my 2005 Phaeton. I was a few blocks from home and managed to get the car home safely, but the hissing noise indicated it was the right air shock that encountered the problem. I am STUNNED to learn the warranty does not cover this item and more concerned all four would need to be replaced - to balance the car and that the part(s) will be hard to find. did you have any luck locating the part in the USA or did you have to rely on Germany to get the part for you? What about installation - I am sure that was an additional charge ontop of the $10,000.00 for the four shocks. My car sits until I can get an answer where to take it for repair - Leon


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

First off, my warranty DID cover the failed strut. Secondly, on my vehicle, there is apparently no requirement to change all 4 shocks, the new part works fine with the other three and the old controller. Thirdly, there was no wait for parts, the strut was readily available. You'll probably need to take it to a VW dealer to find out if you require one strut only or all 4.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

paulkountz said:


> the cluprit of the malfunction was a leak in the front passenger air strut under the rubber sleeve


I think I have the same problem in my ROW V8 109K Km


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

*Lost!*

What's the final verdict on rebuilt struts! I am kind of swamped by all the different threads, opinions and issues within the failure circumstance. Can a strut be rebuilt to begin with? Can one strut be changed without the rest? I apologiesin advance if the information is there, but I'm truly lost with all the scattered info.

Regards,

Salah


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Thanks to Ahmad (Phaeton Dean of Kuwait) I got the all the answers. 

Thanks much


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

There is a lot of valuable information on the topic of Air Spring (Shock Absorber) replacement at this post: Help: Front suspension too low. In particular, see Asad and Ahmad's posts on pages 3 and 4 of that discussion about their success using later generation struts on early generation cars.

Michael


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## jesusturk (Dec 2, 2013)

*Driving home from work and POP! Front shock absorber out *

Has anyone found the remedy for this issue yet last I read was that when one shock goes all others need to be replaced. Please advise 04 W12 VIN#008522.

Thanks,
Jesus


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

No longer a problem. The AD struts work with the old controller.


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## jesusturk (Dec 2, 2013)

*HELP*

I just got off the phone with the dealership/repair shop and the tech gave me the whole rundown about replacing only one shock wouldn't work. I told him that this is no longer an issue and that the new part works fine with the others. Is there a site I can point him to that backs this up?

Thanks,
Jesus


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You're in the wrong thread. Take a read of this one, it has more up-to-date information: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...t-numbers-TOC-done/page2&highlight=suspension

You should have the tech talk to VW. They were adamant that there wasn't a problem with mine, and despite MANY phone calls, were unable to even admit there used to be a problem, nevermind why.

Here's what I wrote after mine was replaced, I have 3 old struts, an old controller, and one new AD strut. I believe the critical thing might be the software revision on the controller, although I'm 99.999% sure mine has the software it was shipped with:

_My 2004 V8 is now running 3 "old" struts and 1 "new" strut on the same ("old") controller.

Front left part number on the car: 3D0 616 039Q (2003/04 - 2003/06)
Front right part number on the car: 3D0 616 040 AD (2009 -)
Controller: 3D0 907 553B (2003), software revision 1101

I don't know where the story came from about the new struts not working on the old controller, but evidently at least one of them does. The strut is new, I believe, not re-manufactured, it's listed on the invoice at $1732. Interestingly, the entire strut change including labour was $1953, which is less than I've seen previously quoted._


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## jesusturk (Dec 2, 2013)

*Update*

Well bad news is that I do have to replace all 4 shocks and old module. GREAT news is that VW is stepping up and covering the 3 shocks and new module!!!!! I should have her back within a week or 2.

Thanks,
Jesus


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Did they explain why?


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## GT23 (Jan 6, 2011)

*Front right shock*

Mine is leaking. After read many helpful posts, I will be trying to replace a "Q" shock on 2004 with remanufactored one. Will let you know results.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Archival note:*

For a 'modern' succinct discussion of an air leak in the front suspension, see also this thread:
ATTN Jason - Front Suspension

Chris


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## Ed LeBlanc (Nov 7, 2012)

*Shock replacement*

I hope I am doing this right....its been a long time.
I THINK I am responding to MIKE (he appears to be the NICE GUY...OK NICER more patient guy). I hope that any and everyone will respond.
I had purchased a nice Phaeton with minor damage at the end of 2012. I then purchased a donor car for parts. I am an old man but repaired the car myself in 3 days. It was fun to read every time I wanted to do something right. You guys are great!!!!
I have driven the car after a BIG Heart Surgery right after I finished repairing the car. 
PLEASE know I am a perfectionest (I hate that about me...it is annoying to others).I have owned almost EVERY high dollard car made (not all new) and I fell deeply inlove with this car. I said to all my friends (and anyone that would listen) this is my last car....and I meant it!
UNTIL I was offered a 2004 with 20,000 miles. I was so excited. It had been garaged the whole time and it felt like walking up to a NEW car...and inside like a new car....well it is a new car...sort of. The car did have some body damage but MINOR. The front fender was cracked, the top of the driver door was bent (I have a replacement...all the inside parts are good) and damage to the rear qtr that was repaired in one day. I was in heaven. I was getting ready to sell the 70,ooo mile car when I got the news that the left rear shock was bent. I felt like someone shot my best friend...but I thought...how hard can that be UNTIL I read this article....now I am CONCERNED. I do not know what to do. (oh I forgot to tell you). I have an add on Ebay for parts I am selling from the donor car. A VERY NICE lady called me that had a pristine 2004 car that she had just spent $8,000.00 on (I THINK)new shocks form the dealer. She is seading me the reciepts. I do not know if it is the front or the rear....if rear I am probably in good shape. I have asked her however she is very sick and does not answer me very often....AND I do not want to bother her. I purchased the car and I am waiting on a shipper to bring it to me. I did not want the car but she asked me to sell it and I knew a guy that wanted it...so I gave my word I would get it GONE for her (oh forgot...hey I am old....that right after the replacment of the shocks the transmission went out. My friend did not want the car...he purchased a nice 4 seater)....so I gave my word and purchased the ca. I have decided to part out the car (It hurts to take a car like this appart....but the cost of replacing a transmission is not worth it. This time I will be smarter about selling parts. I did stupid things like a guy came to me from Dallas and wanted several parts. My guy pulled them and then he gave me a sob story about the car and he did not have the money right then....so I gave him $3,000.00 in parts and he signed a note...HE NEVER PAID. I sold a door with all the parts in it for the same price as a shell etc. made a lot of stupid mistakes and got taken advantage of many times..
Ok...back to the shock problem...any thoughts of what I should do. I am not going to toss a Phaeton with 20,000 actual miles. I already (according to a Phaeton expert I know )...paid WAY too much for it. I am happy with the deal. I now have a NEWish 2004 Phaeton.
OH...one more question. I am told by some that I should replace the timing belt etc...Please tell me what you guys think...man I hate to open this car. You must open the whole front (almost) to replace the timming belt.
Now...about the shock? My luck the donor car has replaced the front shock...it is the one most often burst


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Assuming I skimmed your treatise correctly, buy a reconditioned one from MasterTech in Florida. If I didn't, and you have the car that had $8k in suspension work (hard to tell from what you wrote), likelyhood is that they've replaced all 4 struts with the new AD suffix, including the controller, in which case you can just buy a new strut. First thing to do is identify the serial number on the damaged strut.

If you have a 2004 car with the original timing belt, you're living on borrowed time and running the risk of catastrophic engine failure. Personally I wouldn't even start it until the belt had at least been checked for cracking.


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## rangsudh (Mar 20, 2013)

*Help, need part number for air hose*

Paging PanEuropean (Michael), VWK (Ken) or others:

Just found my 2004 W12 Phaeton front-end was sagging after parked for a few hours. Both left and right, so indicating an air leak somewhere outside the air struts.

Turns out the black 6-inch flexible hose that connects from the right front air strut nipple to the hard plastic air line is brittle with age/heat and leaking. This piece of hose is shaped a certain way and is flexible in order to accomodate the strut's dynamic range of motion along with the wheel.

I cannot find a part number online for this hose -- any ideas?

I would replace both left and right hose pieces.

Thanks.


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## gottarideduc (Oct 28, 2015)

rangsudh said:


> Paging PanEuropean (Michael), VWK (Ken) or others:
> 
> Just found my 2004 W12 Phaeton front-end was sagging after parked for a few hours. Both left and right, so indicating an air leak somewhere outside the air struts.
> 
> ...


I am not sure what you mean. The air line connects to the strut under the fender. You can see the connection by looking between the top of the wheel and the fender. You can see a bit of the green plastic line before it goes into a rubber protective sleeve. It goes directly under the car to the valve block under the center of the spare tire well. These lines do not get brittle. The right strut has a corresponding red line. The lines do not flex with the suspension.


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