# ABA Timing marks do not line up on TDC.........help



## vwmoon1 (Sep 30, 2008)

Car 1996 Cabrio ABA 2.0 5 speed 95k miles. 


Got this gal on the super cheap because motor was taken apart and previous owner was told head was bad. 


Problem. 


When #1 cylinder is brought up to TDC ( did this when head was off) I can see a small line/notch on the flywheel through the inspection hole but when I put the crank pulley on the timing marks on the pulley and the lower timing cover are way off. If I line up the crank pulley and the lower cover mark #1 cylinder is nowhere near TDC. 1 have read 4 or 5 write ups on here and else where about how to time the ABA motor and most seems to lean to using the factory pulley/cover marks. I have also seen posts about people with the same problem as me but no real answers just people saying it runs fine with lower timing marks whacky. Should I put the new timing belt on and try and run it? Or should I take off the lower timing gear off the crank and check that the key is not sheared off?


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## roadsterred (Feb 25, 2010)

Go with the no. 1 cylinder at TDC and the flywheel mark.


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## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

The flywheel mark is the one you're supposed to use, not the pulley.


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## Dets97GTI2pointOH (Sep 2, 2006)

you most likly broke the crankshaft sheer pin/keyway, that holds the crankshaft pully to the crank shaft. If the crankshaft timing is not lined up with the flywheel timing, the key is broke. If you bring your #1 cylinder to TDC and the line on the crankshaft pulley is not at or near 12 o'clock you broke the key. Those people that say it runs fine with the lines not matching up, broke the key, re-set their timing to the flywheel, and have just been lucky that it hasn't slipped anymore. Its possible to brake the key and have it wedge in their so that it wont slip. But their is no way in hell id drive it.
Be sure to use a new bolt for the gear when you replace the key. They are one time use bolts.


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## vwmoon1 (Sep 30, 2008)

I'll pull the gear off and check the key, new bolt is only $7 so it's not a big deal. How should I lock up the motor to get the bolt off? I don't think I can get to it with the car on the ground. I have to put it on jack stands and pull passenger wheel off to get good access to it. I'm thinking someone in the car standing on the brakes hard while in gear. Getting this motor back together is a major pain because I didn't pull it apart, but hey u got this car for super cheap so I'll deal with it.


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## roadsterred (Feb 25, 2010)

"How should I lock up the motor to get the bolt off?"

I use a socket on a breaker bar and tap the starter. The handle of the breaker bar should either be resting on the ground or against the frame.


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## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

Dets97GTI2pointOH said:


> you most likly broke the crankshaft sheer pin/keyway, that holds the crankshaft pully to the crank shaft. If the crankshaft timing is not lined up with the flywheel timing, the key is broke. If you bring your #1 cylinder to TDC and the line on the crankshaft pulley is not at or near 12 o'clock you broke the key. Those people that say it runs fine with the lines not matching up, broke the key, re-set their timing to the flywheel, and have just been lucky that it hasn't slipped anymore. Its possible to brake the key and have it wedge in their so that it wont slip. But their is no way in hell id drive it.
> Be sure to use a new bolt for the gear when you replace the key. They are one time use bolts.


This is not true at all. Nowhere in the service manual does it ever say to use the crankshaft pulley mark to line up the timing. Flywheel mark only. There is no keyway holding that pulley to the crankshaft, the keyway holds the timing belt cog to the crankshaft, and there is no mark on that.

The crankshaft pulley is held on with 4 M8 bolts, it's very possible someone in the past removed the pulley and re-installed it in a different position, which would cause no harm whatsoever. That pulley is not keyed. You should not have to remove the big 19mm 12-point center bolt to set timing and/or install the timing belt.

FWIW, I've only seen that keyway break on two occasions in the last two decades or so of working on these cars, and both times that big center bolt was noticeably loose after it had broken. If it's nice and tight, set the timing with the flywheel mark and go.


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## ekua516 (Feb 29, 2008)

*aba marks*

As stated the crank pulley key most likely shear off...
With the key pulley(inner) match to the crank,the pulley(outer) is also match to the timing mark on the cover when at top dead center.but i seen that off and still run.
The flywheel mark can be use since its low mileage and i doubt is wrong but make sure it matches #1 on distributor cap.


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## vwmoon1 (Sep 30, 2008)

Anony00GT said:


> This is not true at all. Nowhere in the service manual does it ever say to use the crankshaft pulley mark to line up the timing. Flywheel mark only. There is no keyway holding that pulley to the crankshaft, the keyway holds the timing belt cog to the crankshaft, and there is no mark on that.
> 
> The crankshaft pulley is held on with 4 M8 bolts, it's very possible someone in the past removed the pulley and re-installed it in a different position, which would cause no harm whatsoever. That pulley is not keyed. You should not have to remove the big 19mm 12-point center bolt to set timing and/or install the timing belt.
> 
> FWIW, I've only seen that keyway break on two occasions in the last two decades or so of working on these cars, and both times that big center bolt was noticeably loose after it had broken. If it's nice and tight, set the timing with the flywheel mark and go.




But it seems the the pulley can only be put on one way. If you look at my pulley there are five holes, four m8 bolts and then a smaller hole in between two of the bolts holes. Then there is a small bump/tooth on the timing gear, if you don't line those up the pulley wouldn't mount flush. Might as well check it it's only $7 part for a little piece of mind.


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## Dets97GTI2pointOH (Sep 2, 2006)

> This is not true at all. Nowhere in the service manual does it ever say to use the crankshaft pulley mark to line up the timing. Flywheel mark only. There is no keyway holding that pulley to the crankshaft, the keyway holds the timing belt cog to the crankshaft, and there is no mark on that.
> 
> The crankshaft pulley is held on with 4 M8 bolts, it's very possible someone in the past removed the pulley and re-installed it in a different position, which would cause no harm whatsoever. That pulley is not keyed. You should not have to remove the big 19mm 12-point center bolt to set timing and/or install the timing belt.
> 
> ...


Yes there is only one way to install the harmonic balancer the the crank gear, because of that nipple and the hole in the HB, that line up. I guess if someone took a grinder to the nipple, then you could be off and still properly timed, but why would anyone do that? If its just bolted on wrong, with out the hole and the nipple lined up the HB would be hella wobbly. 

I never said to use the timing marks on the crank to time the car, i said if those marks are not in line with the flywheel, or when your #1 is TDC, then the key way is broke. There is a timing mark on the crank pulley for a reason, and they casted those marks into the block, and cover for a reason as well. Some after market flywheels dont have timing marks, since there is a timing mark on the crank.

These key ways break all the time!! Especially if someone uses a used bolt. I can send you a pic of a 2 month old bolt sheared completely off with no stretch, just a strait sheer, on a 10.9. 
Water also works its way behind the bolt and causes it to fail due to rust, and quite fast too. Thats why i also install with a water proof sealant on the back side of the bolt head. I personally have broke 2 of em, causing the keyway to turn to dust, but looking from the outside you couldn't tell a thing. and drilling into a 10.9 and tapping, is not very fun.


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## Dets97GTI2pointOH (Sep 2, 2006)

roadsterred said:


> "How should I lock up the motor to get the bolt off?"
> 
> I use a socket on a breaker bar and tap the starter. The handle of the breaker bar should either be resting on the ground or against the frame.


There are a couple different ways you can do this. You can lock the flywheel, have a friend hold a BIG screw driver/prybar etc. threw the timing hole on the tranny, against the flywheel teeth or side bolts. Where ever you can get a good grab, without messing up the teeth, and anything else. You can take one ratchet with an allen socket and hold one of the 4 bolts on the harmonic balancer as you turn the timing gear bolt. Ive seen someone wrap a rope around the HB and tie it off. Ive even seen some take a breaker bar and put it on the timing bolt, and the handle against the ground, unplug the coil, and turn over the engine. That works real fast, but i wouldnt recommend it, some people might say thats not in the manual.


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## Dets97GTI2pointOH (Sep 2, 2006)

roadsterred said:


> "How should I lock up the motor to get the bolt off?"
> 
> I use a socket on a breaker bar and tap the starter. The handle of the breaker bar should either be resting on the ground or against the frame.


 Unplug your coil plug, so you dont start your motor, and slam your valves into your pistons!!!


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## Anony00GT (Mar 6, 2002)

vwmoon1 said:


> But it seems the the pulley can only be put on one way. If you look at my pulley there are five holes, four m8 bolts and then a smaller hole in between two of the bolts holes. Then there is a small bump/tooth on the timing gear, if you don't line those up the pulley wouldn't mount flush. Might as well check it it's only $7 part for a little piece of mind.


Theoretically you're correct about the bump, but I've seen it done. Some cars also had two little holes, so two possible ways to line up that bump. Another thing that can happen is the outer crankshaft pulley can slip on the rubber and not line up anymore.

The keyway is integrated into the inner pulley, it's not a separate piece like it is on most other cars, and you can't see it with the pulley installed and the bolt torqued. I have yet to see one that sheared but didn't break the bolt loose.

That being said, if you want to pull it off for peace of mind and check, go ahead. In the absence of a good impact gun, bracing the breaker bar against the ground as mentioned is probably your best bet for getting that bolt loose, but you're going to have to hold the engine to torque the new bolt during re-installation. Based on your initial post, I'm not sure if the engine is even in the car. If it's out of the car, you can use this to hold it:

http://www.tooltopia.com/schley-67600.aspx


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