# A3 and MK 7 GTI: A comparison



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Now we all know that while Audi has been on a tear these past few years, sister Volkswagen has struggled in the US market with a product line that looks stale and dated. "Underwhelming" would be the single word to best describe the Volkswagen lineup.

Today, I had the opportunity to spend a good amount of time behind the wheel of two new MK 7 GTIs and thought I'd share some thoughts having also spent a good amount of seat time in the new A3 2.0T Quattro. Now many of you know that I've been very excited about the newly arrived A3 for the better part of the last two years, and when I finally had the opportunity to drive one, I was left very impressed with the composure and solidity that the car demonstrated. On the three drives I've had, all in 2.0T Quattro guise, I have been left thinking the same thing: "Nice car, I could see myself driving this."

The GTIs that I drove were both four door, mid-range SE models with the standard manual transmission, leather seats, Fender upgraded audio, VW's basic version of Drive Select, automatic headlamps, rain sensing wipers, sunroof, LED fog lamps, etc. and stickered for around $28k. The fully loaded Autobahn, with LED DRLs, power seat, dual zone climate and navigation stickers at around $30k. 

Exterior build quality looks to be very much on par with the A3, with very similar body panel gaps (a good thing), heft to the doors and trunk and a similar sense of solidity, as though the cars are chiseled out of granite, as compared to the previous models who in comparison look more 'doughy' and soft. I greatly approve of the more chiseled look of both new models. While the new A3 is sedan only for the time being, that's a non-issue in my book as I actually prefer the looks of the new A3 sedan.

The interior is where the GTI is surprisingly good when compared side-by-side with the A3. The first thing you'll notice is that the back seat feels substantially less claustrophobic in the GTI than the A3. You'll also notice that Volkswagen shaved a few pennies and used hard (but by no means bad) plastic on the entire rear door panels, whereas the front still retains the nice and cushy plastics. The back seat is otherwise a traditional backseat, meaning that few people will sit back there, but the leg room for my 5'8" (5'9" if I'm trying) body with the front seat set to my personal driving position was much more comfortable than in the A3 sedan. I've run this test multiple times and every time I have come away thinking the same thing: the back seat in the new A3 is simply not accommodating for anyone much over 5'8". The A3 looks damned sexy thanks to its hunkered down and sleek look, but the price is functionality. But let's be honest, the A3 isn't targeted at the family car buyer. Audi makes no bones about that.

The driver's seat is where the GTI starts to really excel. Its seating position is similar, though feels much more natural, than in the A3, where you seem to sit higher up. That may simply be perception, but the GTI seating position just felt better. The switchgear all feels really good, even the HVAC controls are acceptable for a car of this class (for a comparison - jump into a $50,000 Touareg and play with the HVAC controls: they belong in a Nissan Versa. Incredible). The standard color MFD has great resolution and responds extremely quickly. The steering wheel is fantastic, though I would argue it's a small step back from the MK VI GTI, whose steering wheel was absolute perfection. Window switches felt very similar to the A3 and everything was in the perfect location. 

The new VW Infotainment system is a 5.8" screen. It's responsive, it's sharp, it does everything you ask of it. It's essentially a touch-screen version of Audi's MMI basic system. That being said, I really hope VW brings over its DiscoverPro 8" touch screen system. Like the MMI+Navigation in the A3, it's a bigger screen, higher resolution and operates slightly faster than the basic system. I don't think most people will complain about the base system once they use it - it's just that once you see the upgraded one, like in the A3, you _really_ want it. Personally, I think Audi and VW should standardize the screens across all models and make the upgrade a dealer installable module and/or software swap. A topic for another day...

So all in all, the GTI is a really nice place to be. It feels very similar to the A3 and yet gives a completely different sensation. It's a real testament to Volkswagen's efforts to do platform engineering the right way and should be commended. You'll like them both - but for different reasons.

As for the drive - well, this is where the GTI really holds its own. While I find the new A3 to be a very solid drive, the GTI takes it to a completely different level. The A3 scoots off the line a bit better thanks to all wheel drive, but holy hell, the work Volkswagen did to the chassis of the GTI is nothing short of miraculous. The A3 was solid and dependable around corners, the GTI, however, feels like it _wants_ to be tossed into them, and it does so with almost zero body roll and with a turn in that really is like the journalists say: point and shoot. It's an eery sensation in the GTI, but man does it make you smile.

But the magic for me is the ability for the car to handle so damned well, and yet when you roll over the crater-filled roads of Northeast Ohio it soaks up the bumps far better than I ever would have expected. I was literally amazed. I purposely found some of the worst roads I drive on a daily basis and the GTI managed to soak them up more like an A4 would. Again - the composure over rough spots combined with incredibly flat cornering is amazing. The A3 handles rough roads good, but when I took a new A3 over the same roads the car became much more unsettled than the GTI did. Not brittle like my current 8P A3, but there's definitely room for improvement. The drive select options are 'normal', 'sport' and 'individual' and allow you to adjust the steering, throttle and something else I don't recall. Personally, the 'sport' setting weighs the steering perfectly and were I choosing - I'd just leave it there forever. 

Road noise was remarkable in its similarity to the A3, and the GTI seemed to insulate against wind noise on the highway slightly better. 

Brakes felt similar to the A3 - very grabby, and the throttle response was great. Torque steer is non-existent and there was very little wheel spin off the line. The 2.0T in the GTI is, if memory serves, identical to the A3, with the GTI coming in 10hp short (210) but with the same torque (258lb/ft.). I seriously doubt the average driver would notice much difference, if any, between the two, the exception being off the line where Quattro will help there.

So, going back to my comment about VW's ability to build two architecturally identical cars with completely different feels: the GTI is the car I _want_ to be driving constantly, the A3 is the car I like to drive. My biggest knock against the A3 is the lack of manual transmission - and I cannot lie, that has a lot to do with my desire (or lack thereof) to purchase one. While I know my days are numbered and the S-Tronic/DSG is a heluva gearbox, I'm not ready to give up the three pedals just yet. 

VW will introduce a Performance Package with upgraded brakes, 10 additional HP and a limited slip front diff that is basically Audi's Sport Differential for front drive cars. Reviews of the differential are pretty unanimous in saying it's a must-have. Personally, I can't imagine how it could get much better than it already is, unless you are a weekend track person. Additionally, the adaptive suspension will be available and again - the stock setup is so good, I cannot imagine the adjustable system to be worth the extra money.

There is really something magical about the new GTI that the A3 somehow lacks. I cannot express it in words, it's just something you can sense while driving it. You can tell the engineering team was excited to work on the MK7 GTI project and they should be damned proud of what is the result. Now this may rub some people the wrong way, but to me the A3, somehow, feels like it was built with a slightly more cynical, target-market committee mindset. The GTI feels like it was built by people who love driving, the A3 by a marketing team trying to ensure that a demographic doesn't get missed. 

Trust me, there are plenty of nits to pick on the GTI, foremost being: It's Volkswagen, foremost meaning you have to deal with their craptastic service departments. But now that they're hitting dealerships, I really recommend trying one out. The A3 is a solid purchase with a lot of spit and polish - don't get me wrong. But the GTI...man, this car will make you grin and fall in love like no car I've driven in the last 10 years.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Your review is very much in line with my expectation.

That's why, to me, the whole point of the A3 is quattro. If you are thinking of getting the 1.8T FWD A3, you should seriously consider the GTI VII pretty much for the same price.


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## trueunion (Apr 15, 2008)

nice review any pics?


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VWNCC said:


> Your review is very much in line with my expectation.
> 
> That's why, to me, the whole point of the A3 is quattro. If you are thinking of getting the 1.8T FWD A3, you should seriously consider the GTI VII pretty much for the same price.


Well, after driving both, I don't disagree that all wheel drive is a selling point. The more I think on it though the A3 really is not targeting drivers, it's targeting (at the mass level) people who like a very well put together technological showcase with great polish. 

I do agree that Audi brought over the 1.8T FWD model because they understand the size of the market who is interested in the badge over all else is substantial.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

trueunion said:


> nice review any pics?


Sorry, I know I'm breaking Rule #1, but I was more focused on mental notes for the sake of comparison than on taking any shots.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

This comparison is about what I would have anticipated. Granted there's still no sport package (suspension) or manual for the A3, it's no surprise the Gti felt roomier and sportier. Unfortunately I find the A3, when done properly, better looking or I'd be all over the Gti for the cost savings, fun factor, and utility. Maybe my mind will change after driving it.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Travis Grundke said:


> Well, after driving both, I don't disagree that all wheel drive is a selling point. The more I think on it though the A3 really is not targeting drivers, it's targeting (at the mass level) people who like a very well put together technological showcase with great polish.
> 
> I do agree that Audi brought over the 1.8T FWD model because they understand the size of the market who is interested in the badge over all else is substantial.


It is all relative.

Based on some reviews I have read, people find the A3 a lot more of a driver's car than the A4. So while the A3 may not be as much of a driver's car compared to the GTI, it may very well be enough of a driver's car to a lot of people.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Chimera said:


> This comparison is about what I would have anticipated. Granted there's still no sport package (suspension) or manual for the A3, it's no surprise the Gti felt roomier and sportier. Unfortunately I find the A3, when done properly, better looking or I'd be all over the Gti for the cost savings, fun factor, and utility. Maybe my mind will change after driving it.



Chimera -

Agreed. The A3 is a very handsome car and I prefer its look. The GTI is just so damned much fun.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VWNCC said:


> It is all relative.
> 
> Based on some reviews I have read, people find the A3 a lot more of a driver's car than the A4. So while the A3 may not be as much of a driver's car compared to the GTI, it may very well be enough of a driver's car to a lot of people.


Understood. But the A3 and A4 are completely different architectures and vehicle classes. The interesting comparison here, for me, is to take two MQB products and see just how different they are in reality. The cars are substantially different in all senses, far more than the old MK V-VI Golf and 8P A3 were. It bodes very well for future models and for model differentiation.


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## GLI_M3 (Jun 10, 2003)

Then, VW/Audi has been successful in both the A3 and Mk7 GTI offerings. The more fun comparison, to me, will be the next Golf R and the S3..............there will be a price delta to comment on, I am sure, but the targeted audience may not be that different..........for what it is worth.


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## phobic99 (Jun 22, 2009)

Very interesting analysis. I was trying to wait on the MK7 GTIs after my brief stint with the Focus ST but I went ahead and got an A3. Reading this does give me a bit of regret since I do love hatchbacks w/ manual transmissions but I have really been impressed with the A3.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

phobic99 said:


> Very interesting analysis. I was trying to wait on the MK7 GTIs after my brief stint with the Focus ST but I went ahead and got an A3. Reading this does give me a bit of regret since I do love hatchbacks w/ manual transmissions but I have really been impressed with the A3.


Do you live in a place with a lot of rain or snow?

If you do, you have made the right choice. AWD > the difference in fun factor.


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## phobic99 (Jun 22, 2009)

VWNCC said:


> Do you live in a place with a lot of rain or snow?
> 
> If you do, you have made the right choice. AWD > the difference in fun factor.


I just moved to Colorado and our last snowfall was just a couple of weeks ago so I agree with you that I made the right choice with AWD. Interested to see how it performs as this is my first AWD car.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

phobic99 said:


> I just moved to Colorado and our last snowfall was just a couple of weeks ago so I agree with you that I made the right choice with AWD. Interested to see how it performs as this is my first AWD car.


Also, if you ever want to make your A3 more fun, just get the S-line suspension.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

VWNCC said:


> Do you live in a place with a lot of rain or snow?
> 
> If you do, you have made the right choice. AWD > the difference in fun factor.


VWNCC -

I actually have to disagree a bit with you here: This past winter was the worst we've had in Cleveland in a looong time. I put a set of good winter tires on my FWD A3 and got around much better than my wife did in her 2012 CRV AWD with regular all seasons. No joke. 

I'm not underplaying the advantages of AWD, I've owned AWD cars in the past and loved them, but especially after this winter I'm more convinced than ever that a solid FWD car with good snow shoes can give you 80% of the safety and peace of mind that AWD will get you.


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## p.r.walker (May 31, 2000)

Travis Grundke said:


> VWNCC -
> I'm more convinced than ever that a solid FWD car with good snow shoes can give you 80% of the safety and peace of mind that AWD will get you.


Totally agree with you Travis, snow tires were the best performance investment on either of my cars. FWD or AWD, it's those 4 small patches of rubber that let you go, stop, or turn. 

Tirerack.com did a fun video in '08 with a BMW 3-series on an ice rink with 3 sets of tires, summer, all season, and winter. 
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=116

Sold me on having 2sets of tires, that I could then have a nice set of larger stickier summer tires was a side benefit. 


Great write up Travis, I'm very torn between the A3/S3 and the GTI/R... I still love my B5 A4, but when the time comes to retire it to track duty, I want to be ready. I love the size of the A3, since it's the same as my current car. Of all things, when I sit in the A3, it just _feels_ smaller than my B5, It also seems like the trunk is barley big enough to put my briefcase in. 

I've got time to deliberate, and drive a few cars to see what will work best.


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## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

Worldwide Audi FWD models outsell quattro 2 to 1.


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## 15A3 (May 18, 2014)

mike3141 said:


> Worldwide Audi FWD models outsell quattro 2 to 1.


Indeed. Living in TN, I couldn't see spending several thousand on AWD vs. FWD. Spent the money on larger wheels and other options.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Travis Grundke said:


> VWNCC -
> 
> I actually have to disagree a bit with you here: This past winter was the worst we've had in Cleveland in a looong time. I put a set of good winter tires on my FWD A3 and got around much better than my wife did in her 2012 CRV AWD with regular all seasons. No joke.
> 
> I'm not underplaying the advantages of AWD, I've owned AWD cars in the past and loved them, but especially after this winter I'm more convinced than ever that a solid FWD car with good snow shoes can give you 80% of the safety and peace of mind that AWD will get you.


I was thinking more along the lines of FWD + AS tires vs. AWD + AS tires OR FWD + Snow tires vs. AWD + snow tires.....like fair comparison.......

As you said...solid FWD + snow will give 80% of what AWD can get you...so for people living in places with a lot of rain or snow....my statement still hold trues that A3 AWD > the fun factor difference between GTI and A3.

Of course, for places with little snowfall, AWD is a bit moot, but that's not what my statement was about.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

mike3141 said:


> Worldwide Audi FWD models outsell quattro 2 to 1.


Of course, most people live in places with little to no snow.

I wonder what the ratio is for places like Canada or Northern Europe.

This is not about FWD being inferior. This is just saying that, in agreement with the OP review of GTI, one of the best selling points of A3 over GTI (which is presumably more fun) is AWD. If one is okay with FWD (e.g. because he/she lives in a place with no snow), GTI may be the better choice to get.


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## The Car Czar (Apr 4, 2014)

A great write-up, Travis. Truth be told, one factor in my A3 purchase over waiting for the GTI was my GTI test drive a few years back. I wasn't ... ahem ... haring around, or anything, but in that 20-minute drive I had cops all over me like stink.


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## KnockKnock (Jun 30, 2005)

Great review Travis - thanks for taking the time. Was wondering what was taking you so long (!) apparently you were putting extra time in on the VW lot. Really interesting how the rear suspensions seems improved on the GTI. Maybe due to less mass in the driveline being non AWD? Plus, we're talking larger wheels all around compared to the 8P A3.

I went ahead and leased a Mazda 6 while waiting for Sportback options to emerge. Smooth ride, surprising handling, great looks. But will be checking back in on the Sportback vs Golf MkVII next year when we replace my fiancée's Beetle. Thinking TDI is in my future.

Am I to understand you haven't pulled the trigger, or is that another upcoming thread?


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

great write-up.

I'll also add that with the GTI you trade away a quasi-useless rear seat and a completely useless trunk for a completely useful hatchback. 

Audi has taken the sedan format and reduced it to a level of utter worthlessness - and charged more for it. they really should win an award for least efficient use of automotive footprint and volume.


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## Feligula (Feb 22, 2014)

FractureCritical said:


> Audi has taken the sedan format and reduced it to a level of utter worthlessness - and charged more for it. they really should win an award for least efficient use of automotive footprint and volume.



When I originally saw the S3 Sportback I had found the vehicle for me. With us getting the sedan instead of the sportback combined with the complete lack on news from AoA on the S3 Sedan, i've started to look elsewhere. The S3 is still on the list but the GLA45 is looking more and more appealing. It seems closer to what I originally wanted in the sportback.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

VWNCC said:


> AWD + snow tires


Tow Truck Driver shaking his fist and shouting "QUATTRO!!!!"


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

VWNCC said:


> Of course, most people live in places with little to no snow.
> 
> I wonder what the ratio is for places like Canada or Northern Europe.
> 
> This is not about FWD being inferior. This is just saying that, in agreement with the OP review of GTI, one of the best selling points of A3 over GTI (which is presumably more fun) is AWD. If one is okay with FWD (e.g. because he/she lives in a place with no snow), GTI may be the better choice to get.


Selling point for US GTI over US FWD A3, GTI available with 6MT. (not to pour salt in old, scarred-over and yet-somehow-still-fresh wounds)


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Good post OP. But everyone should have know the gti is a better drive. 
But you want awd. 

Your answer is the golf R. 

The new chassis is the best ever. 

You want Tossable?
Wheelbase with a proper chassis is what matters. 
Add in good suspension, brakes, power increase, internals, DSG and MT option...
Navigation, roof, sport seats
All for the price of a moderately loaded A3.

The car is special. 
You also get to track the car at vw subsidized events for $50 per DAY. 
Probably won't piss off your wife or your boss either. 

Ah but brand and wow factor. 
It's no audi.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

KnockKnock said:


> Great review Travis - thanks for taking the time. Was wondering what was taking you so long (!) apparently you were putting extra time in on the VW lot. Really interesting how the rear suspensions seems improved on the GTI. Maybe due to less mass in the driveline being non AWD? Plus, we're talking larger wheels all around compared to the 8P A3.
> 
> Am I to understand you haven't pulled the trigger, or is that another upcoming thread?


Ha. I really don't know what to attribute the better suspension setup to, but no doubt the reduced mass helps. My A3 is a FWD model and the rear wheel hop has been one of my biggest complaints with the car. If I hit a piece of asphalt that has a lift/ridge to it the whole car bounces. The GTI just rolls over it and seems to absorb the imperfection much, much better.

Correct - have not yet pulled the trigger. Chances are good that I'll want to sell my A3 outright first, plus the availability right now is pretty tight. Word on the street is that VW will be introducing the 8" DiscoverPro Nav system as a running change over the next 12 months, and frankly it's something I'd be willing to wait for.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

FractureCritical said:


> great write-up.
> 
> I'll also add that with the GTI you trade away a quasi-useless rear seat and a completely useless trunk for a completely useful hatchback.
> 
> Audi has taken the sedan format and reduced it to a level of utter worthlessness - and charged more for it. they really should win an award for least efficient use of automotive footprint and volume.


That's pretty funny. In all honesty, were I still in my 20s and single, or even my early 30s and recently married, the new A3 sedan would be just fine for me. I can say this partially because my wife has a new CRV that we can use to haul big stuff, so the cargo requirements aren't such a big deal for me any longer. 

I can honestly count the number of times I've carried people in the back seat of my A3 over the last 9 years on both hands.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Waterfan said:


> Selling point for US GTI over US FWD A3, GTI available with 6MT. (not to pour salt in old, scarred-over and yet-somehow-still-fresh wounds)


The transmission is the primary reason for my interest in the GTI over the A3. To be perfectly honest, were the A3 2.0T Quattro available with a manual transmission I would probably be less enthusiastic about the GTI and moreso on the A3.

The great news here is that for the first time, we have some great choices here in North America. If you want the hatch, you've got the GTI, if you prefer a sedan you get the A3. The chassis and powerrtain on both are fantastic and you won't be disappointed in either. The GTI, however, is clearly oriented toward the person who places an emphasis on road feel, handling and fun. The A3 places more emphasis on creature comforts and style. Nothing wrong with either approach but for the first time Volkswagen really has all of its bases covered.


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## sonic_va (Jul 2, 2006)

FractureCritical said:


> great write-up.
> 
> I'll also add that with the GTI you trade away a quasi-useless rear seat and a completely useless trunk for a completely useful hatchback.
> 
> Audi has taken the sedan format and reduced it to a level of utter worthlessness - and charged more for it. they really should win an award for least efficient use of automotive footprint and volume.


I'm all about hatches, but the A3 trunk is far from worthless. I actually think it is quite large for its class (granted I'm in a 1.8T).


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

VWNCC said:


> Also, if you ever want to make your A3 more fun, just get the S-line suspension.


What would the S-line do to the ride of the A3? It seems the base A3 is already inferior to the GTI in that regard.


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## StlVDub (Aug 1, 2010)

Excellent review...very helpful to my thought process for next year's purchase. I have been eyeing the new A3 for a very long time, especially because I was worrying about the quality of the new GTI...but I just love my MKVI so much...and hearing that the MKVII is superior in basically every way imaginable, I am getting VERY excited to try it out. I'll still look into the A3 as well, and probably the 320i, but a base S GTI will probably be my most affordable option. I'm pretty excited to hear that my one complaint about the MKVI...disappointingly slow...seems to have been rectified. :thumbup:


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