# Help with p2177 ghost...



## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

This code is driving me crazy :screwy:

A couple months ago I experienced the pleasure of my timing belt disintegrating, which of course destroyed my top end. Due to funds instead of putting in a TSI or 2.5 I swapped for the same BPY motor with only 22k. The only mods were intake and DP. Ran great until my DP broke at the turbo flange (looked like a weak thin weld), company sent me a new one which i change out and about a week after started throwing a p2177 code "Bank 1 system too lean off idle". After hours of research and diagnosing i cannot for the life of me find the culprit giving me the trouble code.

The car is an '07 A3 2.0t FSI... 

Here is what I have tried and where I am at up to this point:
I have since switched back to stock intake and DP.
Replaced O2 sensors, DV, Coil Packs, Plugs, PCV & Fuel Filter.
Had it tested for vacuum leaks.
Checked MAF and Fuel pressures via Vag-com, all seems to be normal.

Block 003 shows MAF reading air values in normal range. My LTFT in block 32 keeps rising to @ 20% within 10 - 15 miles of highway driving only under about 20% - 30% engine load at @ 2500 - 2900 rpms. The STFT in block 32 stays perfect between -0.5 and 0.8%. Block 33 Lambda fluctuates from 4% to 14% randomly which is indicative of a vacuum leak but cant find one to save my life. :banghead:

I unplugged the MAF and ran it to see if maybe I was getting false readings from it and the LTFT still climbs, ALOT slower but it climbs none the less.

I am stumped and virtually at my wits end. Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this type of situation. I am trying to keep from taking it to the stealership since I dont want a second butthole, plus the addition of a newborn is sucking the money I could pay them anyway.

Any help or possible theorems would be appreciated!!


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

I had the code "bank 1 too lean"

Got the pcv revamp and code went forever.


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

hmmm..... The pcv i replacement i have is the new model.


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

long list there  

At that point I would just erase the code over and over again


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Lol.. Thats pretty much what I'm doing, but having to do it twice a day is inconvenient and starting to get old.


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

audimo said:


> Lol.. Thats pretty much what I'm doing, but having to do it twice a day is inconvenient and starting to get old.


I would delete the pcv. just my .02


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

2006_A3_2.0T said:


> I would delete the pcv. just my .02


Explain?


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

audimo said:


> Explain?


with a block off plate:

http://www.bshspeedshop.com/bshstore/products/BSH-%2d-FSI-2.0T-PCV-Revamp.html


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## louiekaps (Aug 12, 2013)

Deleting the pcv is not going to fix a lean condition if it is not the cause... There are a million other places for unmetered air to enter the engine.


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

Yeah specially on a swapped engine.


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

There must be a million and one....


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Is it possible that it still could be the MAF, even though the LTFT climbs with the MAF unplugged?


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## neu318 (Feb 18, 2003)

My opinion, find someone that has access to vagcom in your area and get it scanned. There could be other codes present that are not being seen by the generic code reader.


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

I have a VAG Com, that is the only code being thrown!


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## neu318 (Feb 18, 2003)

audimo said:


> I have a VAG Com, that is the only code being thrown!


nevermind


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

No, the VAG doesn't throw a "P" code, however it is included in the module and auto scans.

IE:
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8P0 907 115 P HW: 8P0 907 115 B
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0010
Software Coding: 0103010A1C070160
Work Shop Code: WSC 09223 444 84432
VCID: 3F874F2B6EA28EE6A2D-806A
1 Fault Found:

008567 - Bank 1; System Too Lean off Idle 
P2177 - 001 - 
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 228188 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.10.04
Time: 13:50:25

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1865 /min
Load: 38.4 %
Speed: 74.0 km/h
Temperature: 90.0°C
Temperature: 28.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V


Readiness: 0000 0100


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Can anyone chime in on what the MAF Values are supposed to be. I found a thread that gave me some values, just want to make sure they are correct!


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Also anyone know what the values for the fuel rail pressure are supposed to be?


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## brendonsanya (May 31, 2015)

Did You find out what the problem was?

I have an S3 2008 and does exactly the same. p2177, ltft over 20% in 20miles after code reset and limp mode. new PCV, new DV, new injectors, new cam cover and intake manifold gaskets, exhaust leaks fixed, smoke test completed, new cam follower for hpfp, new spark plugs and coil packs and I cannot seem to find the solution.

Any help would be highly appriciated


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Unfortunately this problem still eludes me! I have performed everything you have listed including replacing the HPFP, having the ECU re-flashed as well, and I still clear my code on a daily basis sometimes twice a day.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Did you do a smoke test for leaks?

Engine swap... could be soooo many things, like a damaged wire/connector, cracked vacuum connector, etc.

I'd really like to know why your timing belt broke in the first place.


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Yes, had it smoke tested and found no leaks. As for the timing belt, it looked as if it came apart at the weave point, not that it should have or anything.

I know with it being a swap there are multiple possibilities, however everything points to a vacuum leak which I have yet to and may never find, if it is even there!


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

audimo said:


> Yes, had it smoke tested and found no leaks. As for the timing belt, it looked as if it came apart at the weave point, not that it should have or anything.
> 
> I know with it being a swap there are multiple possibilities, however everything points to a vacuum leak which I have yet to and may never find, if it is even there!


How many miles were on the car when the timing belt broke?

So if we assume there really is no air leaks, another way to get lean is to not properly measure the air coming in with the MAF. This could be a problem with the MAF or it could be a problem with how the air is flowing around the MAF. I.E. airflow is partially blocked or misdirected around MAF. Are you running stock airbox? If not, revert to stock and see if it changes. If stock, make sure that the air line leading up to the MAF has the straightening vanes properly installed and the MAF is parallel to the airflow.


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

New MAF and stock box put back on it.

There was 45k on the belt when it broke, 130k on the engine.


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## Zuber Speed (Oct 7, 2001)

ever get this resolved?


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Negative


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## Audi_Mechanic (Mar 24, 2012)

Are you SURE you have a replacement BPY engine? 

About 1 or 2 months ago I dealt with a B7 A4 that had intake leak faults. Customer spent lots of time & $$ at an independent shop before they came to us. I pressurized the charge air system and didn't find any leaks, neither with a smoke test. The EVAP purge regulator valve N80 was leak free (have you checked yours?), in-tank fuel pump duty cycle was okay. Fuel pressure measured values were okay. Long term fuel trim was adding fuel to make up for an intake leak so I wanted to swap a MAF sensor but couldn't locate a donor car. Intake cam & high pressure pump were okay. Was on the verge of replacing the valve cover but was disturbed when the new one was black plastic. The engine had a silver valve cover; silver valve covers were used on BPG engines, black covers were used on BWT engines. Looked at the cylinder head and it had BPG stamped in it. Checked the VIN and the car is supposed to have the BWT engine.  I was furious, spent a whole lot of time trying to diagnose that damn car. Checking to make sure a car has the correct version of an engine isn't normal thing you have to do with engine management diagnosis. Owner didn't tell us that the engine had been replaced (maybe they didn't know), so they went back to the independent. Nothing for us to do at that point beyond installing the proper engine.

The BPG/BWT engines are similar to your belt drive 2.0T but for longitudinal applications. BPG is the older version with a different FSI system - different high pressure pump, breather system and engine management strategy. Can't really tell the engines apart aside from the different valve cover color. The engine change occured during the B7 generation so it's not like you open the hood and immediately notice a car has a wrong engine. Moral of the story is to check your cylinder head and block to make sure they are stamped with the correct engine code. Cylinder head is stamped on intake side, just below valve cover and just behind upper timing cover, above the area of cam sensor. I think the block is stamped on the bellhousing flange on intake side where it meets the trans (not 100% sure, maybe 20% sure). A complete longitudinal engine won't work on an A3, but a bare long block might which is why I mention a look. I probably could have suggested that in a much shorter response now that I have read it over. Sorry for the long story. It's a stretch that you might have the wrong engine but your mention of engine replacement has my memory screaming 'check the engine code!'.

I'd like to try to help, but can't make any promises that I'll be able to help diagnose your car over the interwebs. What's your VIN? I can look it up and see if there are any tsb's that might help. And can you please make a new list of what you have already done/checked so I can get a better picture of what's going on? It will make it a little easier on me vs having to sift through the old posts.


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## audimo (Dec 31, 2013)

*Here's up to this point.*

Sorry for the late response, new job and all. But to answer your questions!

The engine i ordered came out of the same make and model car, was just manual vs. dsg, and the block, head, and timing cover both have BPY stamped/printed on them.

The valve cover is identical to the one on my original engine which, i actually swapped and tested just to make sure the cover on the replacement didn't have any hidden cracks or flow problems.

Up to this point since the swap i have tried the following:
Took everything back down to stock (ie. - intake, exhaust, ecu map, etc.)
New MAF, PCV assembly, O2's, DV, Coil Pks w/plugs
Checked all hose & cable connections including charge air piping
Smoke tested to no avail


VIN# WAUHF78P87A065742

Since i have been dealing with this for a year now i have recently went back to my 3" catless DP, intake and just clear the code with my VagCom Hex-Net on the fly whenever it pops up :banghead:, and its always the same:
008567 - Bank 1; System Too Lean off Idle
P2177 - 001 -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 228188 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.10.04
Time: 13:50:25

Which as you can see is from way back in October. Runs great when no code, but when the LTFT climbs high enough obviously no joy. Any prior experiences or help would be greatly appreciated!


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