# TT Control Arm Retrofit, or Whiteline Bushings, or



## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Would this work for our VW MKV's?

TT control arm retrofit/upgrade with considering the following parts:

1 ball joint 8J0 407 365
1 ball joint 8J0 407 366
1 ball joint lock plate 8J0 407 175
1 ball joint lock plate 8J0 407 176
2 arm 8J0 407 151D

Note: These part numbers and idea (for the Audi A3’s) were taken from this thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4386978

Or are these better ideas for our cars:

1.- MK5 Antilift Caster Kit

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_V--2.0T/Suspension/Bushings/ES514162/

2.- H2Sport - Sport Control Arm Bearing Kit, Mk5

http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=1190

What do you think? Has anybody tried one of this options in their VW MKV? Any retro will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Beto


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

what are you trying to accomplish? I plan to run the h2sport bushings and possibly their camber plates. The arms are a pretty expensive upgrade along with them pushing the bottom of the wheel out for more camber vs pushing the top of the wheel in. Doesn't really work for what I need clearance wise.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

... And what do you think about this:

H2Sport - Sport Camber Mounts, Mk5

http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=1209


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

I want to get someone's feedback on that whiteline anticaster kit... haven't had great luck with that


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## TypeR #126 (May 10, 2006)

A3Performance said:


> I want to get someone's feedback on that whiteline anticaster kit... haven't had great luck with that



If you're referring to the Anti-Lift Kit, there's been numerous discussion threads on it . If not here then on the golfmkv board.

Huge improvement in stability and wheel hop on my car.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

TypeR #126 said:


> If you're referring to the Anti-Lift Kit, there's been numerous discussion threads on it . If not here then on the golfmkv board.
> 
> Huge improvement in stability and wheel hop on my car.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)




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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

hadnt seen the bump steer kit before. Interested to know how it works.


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## FMX_DBC (Feb 15, 2010)

I emailed Whiteline directly about the bump steer kit and it is not in production. I almost bought the anti lift kit but just ended up going with the upgraded S3 bushing from ECS instead


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

FMX_DBC said:


> I emailed Whiteline directly about the bump steer kit and it is not in production. I almost bought the anti lift kit but just ended up going with the upgraded S3 bushing from ECS instead


I was also thinking of getting the anti lift kit, but ended up getting the bushes instead.

Btw, why did you decide against it ??

I've read mixed reviews...


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

I heard that the upgraded Audi S3 bushing would be the only thing needed for this upgrade but I don't really know if it is like that.

And with the Audi S3 bushing you keep it OEM! I don't know how the other bushings might be for a daily drive.

Have a good one,

Beto


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

loudgli said:


> what are you trying to accomplish? I plan to run the h2sport bushings and possibly their camber plates. The arms are a pretty expensive upgrade along with them pushing the bottom of the wheel out for more camber vs pushing the top of the wheel in. Doesn't really work for what I need clearance wise.


Hi loudgli,

I don't track my car, I just want to have better performance since I'm going to install an APR Stage III turbo kit, that's pretty much it.

Thanks for asking,

Beto


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> I emailed Whiteline directly about the bump steer kit and it is not in production. I almost bought the anti lift kit but just ended up going with the upgraded S3 bushing from ECS instead


http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Suspension/OEM/ES514232/

How are this working for you? Have you installed them yet?

Thanks,

Beto


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

GolfRS said:


> I was also thinking of getting the anti lift kit, but ended up getting the bushes instead.
> 
> Btw, why did you decide against it ??
> 
> I've read mixed reviews...


http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Suspension/OEM/ES514232/

Hi man, so it would be the same questions for you,

How are this working for you? Have you installed them yet?

Are this bolt on? Or do you have to do an adaptation so these could work fine?

Thanks,

Beto


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## FMX_DBC (Feb 15, 2010)

GolfRS said:


> I was also thinking of getting the anti lift kit, but ended up getting the bushes instead.
> 
> Btw, why did you decide against it ??
> 
> I've read mixed reviews...


I finally decided that going the OEM route would be best because its not changing anything. The Whiteline kit could help, or hurt bump steer with the small changes they made. I had to ask myself "What is the problem with the stock bushing?" To which the answer is, really nothing besides its a little too weak. So the S3 bushing solves that small issue while adding more reinforcement without changing anything.



BETOGLI said:


> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Suspension/OEM/ES514232/
> 
> How are this working for you? Have you installed them yet?
> 
> ...


I haven't installed them yet. I'm waiting for my friend to clear his lift...hopefully this weekend or next.


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## [email protected] (Feb 18, 2010)

For those of you interested in tracking your car I recommend the H2sport bearing control arm kits. They're built very well and if our series allowed it we would likely run them on our GTIs. Instead we have to run non-metal bushings, so we run our own delrin replacements that I would not recommend for people driving on the street.

As for the Whiteline products, I can't comment on their quality nor their possible drive-ability improvement.

I have been in cars with the H2sport equipment so I can say it's all well made and does it's job very well.


Best bang for your buck in terms of handling improvement on the MKV/MKVI GTIs is front and rear swaybars though. Our race cars use the same bars we sell to the public and absolutely improve the way the car handles when adjusted properly relative to the other suspension modifications made.


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> For those of you interested in tracking your car I recommend the H2sport bearing control arm kits. They're built very well and if our series allowed it we would likely run them on our GTIs. Instead we have to run non-metal bushings, so we run our own delrin replacements that I would not recommend for people driving on the street.
> 
> As for the Whiteline products, I can't comment on their quality nor their possible drive-ability improvement.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

loudgli said:


> Thanks for your post.


+1, Thanks Chad!


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> I haven't installed them yet. I'm waiting for my friend to clear his lift...hopefully this weekend or next.


:thumbup: Please let us know how did it went for you as soon as you install them!


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

FMX_DBC said:


> I finally decided that going the OEM route would be best because its not changing anything. The Whiteline kit could help, or hurt bump steer with the small changes they made. I had to ask myself "What is the problem with the stock bushing?" To which the answer is, really nothing besides its a little too weak. So the S3 bushing solves that small issue while adding more reinforcement without changing anything.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't installed them yet. I'm waiting for my friend to clear his lift...hopefully this weekend or next.


I am interested in finding out how difficult this is to do. Please tell us how it goes.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

dmorrow said:


> I am interested in finding out how difficult this is to do. Please tell us how it goes.


I think that you need to remove the arms and that's going to be a lot of time and Cash!


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> For those of you interested in tracking your car I recommend the H2sport bearing control arm kits. They're built very well and if our series allowed it we would likely run them on our GTIs. Instead we have to run non-metal bushings, so we run our own delrin replacements that I would not recommend for people driving on the street.
> 
> As for the Whiteline products, I can't comment on their quality nor their possible drive-ability improvement.
> 
> ...


How stiff does it feels the H2Sport option to be used in a daily car?

Thanks,

Beto


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## TypeR #126 (May 10, 2006)

The H2Sport bearings should actually be least "stiff" option of all. The bearings basically have negligible resistance to twisting, unlike the stock bushings. (FYI the Whiteline ALK kit is also very compliant in that regard as it is a two piece design filled with grease between the inner and outer shell).

What you will get is much more vibration and noise as the bearings will pass a large percentage of the vibration from the control arm into the chassis. This would be most apparent on surfaces with a lot of texture. You may experience more of a "thwack" on on abrupt surface changes as well.

Gross suspension movement should actually be somewhat "softer" and more controlled. I don't have experience with these bearings in the MKV chassis, but that was my experience with running bearings on my STi.

For the ultimate, no compromise, in handling the bearings win hands down versus any benefit from the increased caster of the Whiteline kit. IMHO, the Whiteline kit is the better option if you have any concerns in the NVH category.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

TypeR #126 said:


> The H2Sport bearings should actually be least "stiff" option of all. The bearings basically have negligible resistance to twisting, unlike the stock bushings. (FYI the Whiteline ALK kit is also very compliant in that regard as it is a two piece design filled with grease between the inner and outer shell).
> 
> What you will get is much more vibration and noise as the bearings will pass a large percentage of the vibration from the control arm into the chassis. This would be most apparent on surfaces with a lot of texture. You may experience more of a "thwack" on on abrupt surface changes as well.
> 
> ...



Thanks, pretty good info, and since it's a daily car maybe the way to go might be the Audi S3 OEM Bushings or the Whiteline ones.

Beto


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

BETOGLI said:


> Hi loudgli,
> 
> I don't track my car, I just want to have better performance since I'm going to install an APR Stage III turbo kit, that's pretty much it.
> 
> ...



If you are not tracking the car, more camber isn't going to help at all with a Stage III kit. Camber is for tuning your suspension so you get best use of tires when cornering. What others haven't explained is that additional camber also reduces traction since tires are no longer as perpendicular with road surface. The ABS will kick on sooner under threshold braking, and you'll spin tires more easily when accelerating. 

I would invest in a limited slip if you haven't already, a good spring/shock combo, sway bars front and rear, and leave camber stock so you have maximum traction. The S3 or TT front control arm bushings work well for street car too.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

BETOGLI said:


> I think that you need to remove the arms and that's going to be a lot of time and Cash!


For the control arm bushing kit from the S3 or Whiteline this person makes it sound easy.- 

_And indeed it was. I didn't even need to take the arm off the car, or loosen the subframe - just remove the three nuts at the bottom of the wheel hub, then lever the arm down with a crowbar. Getting the old mount off the spigot was done with brute force (whacking it off) and the new mount slid on easily._

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113651&page=2


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> I emailed Whiteline directly about the bump steer kit and it is not in production.



I would imagine it isn't in production because they changed nothing at all based on what i could see in that video.

Look at a kit that is meant to fix bump steer on some of the older VWs when they are lowered.

You drill out the hole because it is tapered, press in a bushing that now makes the taper work from the opposite side and you install the tie rod end from the bottom not the top. When the car is put back on the ground the tie rod is now much slower to the stock position or at the very least more parallel. 

What the whiteline video showed would give you no change at all unless you drilled it out and installed it from the bottom. Even then you don't need to change the rod end you just flip it.


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## FMX_DBC (Feb 15, 2010)

I have plans to install the ECS bought S3 LCA bushings today. I hope to notice an improvement over my stock/blown out bushings. I will keep this thread updated.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> I have plans to install the ECS bought S3 LCA bushings today. I hope to notice an improvement over my stock/blown out bushings. I will keep this thread updated.


 Great man, that's awesome! Please if you're so kind and if it's possible please upload some pics during the assemble and install (DIY) as well as if you felt any improvement! 

Have a good one, 

Beto


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## FMX_DBC (Feb 15, 2010)

Sorry no pics but I did get the new S3 bushings in. They went on pretty easily. Hardest part was removing the old bushings but that was accmplished with a big mallet and a punch at the center back of the bushing. 

My first impression is that it feels a lot more positive or responsive. They are certainly tighter than the worn out, cracking, splitting bushings that I removed. One thing that made installing the new bushings A LOT easier was greasing the inside so it doesn't bind on the shaft. 

I'm very satisfied with the bushings! Hopefully I'll be able to test them with more spirited driving soon :thumbup:


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> Sorry no pics but I did get the new S3 bushings in. They went on pretty easily. Hardest part was removing the old bushings but that was accmplished with a big mallet and a punch at the center back of the bushing.
> 
> My first impression is that it feels a lot more positive or responsive. They are certainly tighter than the worn out, cracking, splitting bushings that I removed. One thing that made installing the new bushings A LOT easier was greasing the inside so it doesn't bind on the shaft.
> 
> I'm very satisfied with the bushings! Hopefully I'll be able to test them with more spirited driving soon :thumbup:


 Great! Please give us a feedback once you drive your car with a lot of spirit! :thumbup::thumbup: 

So it was an easy "Bolt on"? Any mod needed? How long did it take you to do this? Did you do it by your self? Or with your friend at his workshop? 

Thanks, 

Beto


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## FMX_DBC (Feb 15, 2010)

Bolted on, no modification needed. I had the use of a friends lift which made the install MUCH easier. The only times I needed his help were getting the old bushings off and a few whacks of the mallet to. Get the new ones on. 
Let me specify ; it was much easier to have one person pull down on the control arm while the other hits it with a mallet. Without pulling the arm away from the chassis there just isn't much room to get the mallet in there 

I'd say it took about 2 hours start to finish with the lift. I took a few breaks too...


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> Bolted on, no modification needed. I had the use of a friends lift which made the install MUCH easier. The only times I needed his help were getting the old bushings off and a few whacks of the mallet to. Get the new ones on.
> Let me specify ; it was much easier to have one person pull down on the control arm while the other hits it with a mallet. Without pulling the arm away from the chassis there just isn't much room to get the mallet in there
> 
> I'd say it took about 2 hours start to finish with the lift. I took a few breaks too...


 :thumbup::thumbup: 

Please let us know if you felt a huge improvement with your ride! 

Thanks, 

Beto


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

I had a local independent shop replace my rear control arm bushinge with the S3 bushings last week. I have 110k miles on my car and have had a clunking noise and feel when going over bumps for about 6 months. I had Audi look at it, then the Indy and neither one could find anything and had the independent replace the end links with no improvement. Replaced the bushings last week and it seems like the problem is solved. Definately more precise and accurate with the biggest benefit being no loose, clunking feeling. I am comparing new bushings to old worn out cracked ones so not sure how much better these bushings are. 

Interesting thing was the shop said they were an ECS dealer so they sold them to me for the same price as ECS has on their website and charged me $70 labor to replace them. Add the $58 Motul oil change and it seems like a good deal, especially since I don't have a garage and it snowed this weekend.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

dmorrow said:


> I had a local independent shop replace my rear control arm bushinge with the S3 bushings last week. I have 110k miles on my car and have had a clunking noise and feel when going over bumps for about 6 months. I had Audi look at it, then the Indy and neither one could find anything and had the independent replace the end links with no improvement. Replaced the bushings last week and it seems like the problem is solved. Definately more precise and accurate with the biggest benefit being no loose, clunking feeling. I am comparing new bushings to old worn out cracked ones so not sure how much better these bushings are.
> 
> Interesting thing was the shop said they were an ECS dealer so they sold them to me for the same price as ECS has on their website and charged me $70 labor to replace them. Add the $58 Motul oil change and it seems like a good deal, especially since I don't have a garage and it snowed this weekend.


 Hi man! 

Thanks for this retro. Do you have the part number of the rear control arm bushings? 

Have a good one, 

Beto


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

BETOGLI said:


> Hi man!
> 
> Thanks for this retro. Do you have the part number of the rear control arm bushings?
> 
> ...


 http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Suspension/OEM/ES514232/ 

I ended up getting these because the shop couldn't find the stock ones. Again, I am not sure how much of an improvement they are over good stock bushings. I am comparing the S3 bushings to 110k mile stock bushings. Just don't want you to be dissapointed if you don't find much difference the S3 compared to your good bushings.


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## FMX_DBC (Feb 15, 2010)

I too am comparing old, worn out bushing to these new S3 bushings. It would be nice to do a back to back comparison. 

A little info on my car - '06 DSG GTI, Ksport coilovers, Nitto NT-05 tires (235/40/18), APR stage 2, catless DP 

I went out for a great drive yesterday into the hills to give the car and bushings a good test. The front end felt nice and tight and very responsive, just like it should! I have to say I'm very impressed with how nimble and agile the GTI feels. When entering a tight turn at what I thought would be a little too fast, I kept turning in and the front end just kept gripping! I never had it push on me once and it never felt loose at all...never even rubbed a fender! 

I think I may end up with the ECS sway bar kit to lessen the body roll slightly and then call it a day on the handling. This thing feels great! I'm very happy! :beer: 

A picture from yesterday 

 
Untitled by FMX_DBC, on Flickr


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Mine is far closer to stock. Revo stage one, Koni FSD shocks on stock "Sport" springs. 17" wheels, 225. Have only driven about 10 miles since I got the new bushings.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> I too am comparing old, worn out bushing to these new S3 bushings. It would be nice to do a back to back comparison.
> 
> A little info on my car - '06 DSG GTI, Ksport coilovers, Nitto NT-05 tires (235/40/18), APR stage 2, catless DP
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup: And you have a pretty nice ride! Are those VMR 710 rims?


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

dmorrow said:


> I had a local independent shop replace my rear control arm bushinge with the S3 bushings last week. I have 110k miles on my car and have had a clunking noise and feel when going over bumps for about 6 months. I had Audi look at it, then the Indy and neither one could find anything and had the independent replace the end links with no improvement. Replaced the bushings last week and it seems like the problem is solved. Definately more precise and accurate with the biggest benefit being no loose, clunking feeling. I am comparing new bushings to old worn out cracked ones so not sure how much better these bushings are.
> 
> Interesting thing was the shop said they were an ECS dealer so they sold them to me for the same price as ECS has on their website and charged me $70 labor to replace them. Add the $58 Motul oil change and it seems like a good deal, especially since I don't have a garage and it snowed this weekend.





dmorrow said:


> http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Suspension/OEM/ES514232/
> 
> I ended up getting these because the shop couldn't find the stock ones. Again, I am not sure how much of an improvement they are over good stock bushings. I am comparing the S3 bushings to 110k mile stock bushings. Just don't want you to be dissapointed if you don't find much difference the S3 compared to your good bushings.


Hi again Dmorrow,

So it's uses the same part number for the front as well as the rear Arm Bushings? Interesting!

Thanks,

Beto


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## FMX_DBC (Feb 15, 2010)

BETOGLI said:


> :thumbup::thumbup: And you have a pretty nice ride! Are those VMR 710 rims?


 Yes they are the VMR 710's. Thanks! 



BETOGLI said:


> Hi again Dmorrow,
> 
> So it's uses the same part number for the front as well as the rear Arm Bushings? Interesting!
> 
> ...


 I believe when he says "rear" arm bushings he is referring to the rear of the front control arms. The bushings for the rear end are completely different. Hope that clears things up


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

FMX_DBC said:


> I believe when he says "rear" arm bushings he is referring to the rear of the front control arms. The bushings for the rear end are completely different. Hope that clears things up


This is correct. I haven't replaced any bushings at the rear of the car, only the front control arms, rear bushings. Sorry, didn't understand the question.


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## shepherdgti (Jan 5, 2011)

hey guys- I went with the whiteline ALC kit and control and trailing arm bushings about a year ago. (I have fsd's with neuspeed sport springs and hr rsb) I noticed a difference in handling and steering response. Front end is more planted. I cannot comment on the s3 set up, but i would definitely recommend the whiteline products. It's a relatively lower priced suspension mod compared to tires/coils etc, and i think it was worth the cost.


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