# Phaeton Boot Lid Problems



## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

Ok so I’ve got a 2008 3 litre Phaeton which I absolutely love...I am finding it very hard to let go off but the most recent problem is the boot lid.

So last night I closed the boot and there was a buckle sitting between the chrome protector strip and the boot. Fair enough the light is now illuminated in the dash to say the boot is open. So I have tried reckoning it - the boot closes and the latch makes the noise that it’s closing but won’t actually pull itself into place. The light stays on in the dash - the button on the door doesn’t work and I have to open the boot manually. I have tried the open it manually press the boot open on the keys but it still doesn’t work.

This is really pissing me off as the car is in great shape apart from this 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Based in N Ireland


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

You most likely got broken boot lid wires. Common issue. Pretty much all Phaetons will have this problem sooner or later. Easy fix. Just replace wires that go from underneath back window to boot lid. Then you have to re adapt the boot lid and you good to go. 

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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Is this the fully automatic boot lid?


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

First relearn the boot lid by oprning it by hand and then a long press on the close button till relearn proces starts.

Jorg

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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

Yes it’s a fully automatic boot lid. The latch still opens and closes when the boot is preparing to close it’s just when the boot has to lock into place that it won’t


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

Try to relearn first

Jorg

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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Try this, if not. Cables.









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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

OK so tried all off the above and no luck - so the boot latch sounds like it’s trying to close but it just won’t pull into place - so power seems to be getting to it. Is it a wire replacement? Can I contact any of you guys by FaceTime to talk me through it?


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Have you got a vcds ,? 

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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

Yes the brother has - I will run it and post the issues


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Try readapt IMG it first. If you scan it it may show you fault with "locking mechanism" but it will be faulty wires. Had same issue . 

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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Try the suggestions above but before you tear any wiring out check if the locking hook movement is obstructed. I have had a small rock chip wedged there. Twice. That will cause an error code that says lock mechanism obstructed or something like that and that was exactly the reason for malfunction. And I have replaced all the wires, some of them broken, with high flex wires to get rid of the original ones that are not made for movement. All the above has been on occasions well separated from and independent of each other.

Lennart


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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

Thanks for all the reply’s - unfortunately I am no further forward..so I’m driving around with the boot closed but not latched. Pressing the button on the keys flashes the light but does not operate the latch. Pressing the switch on the drivers door does nothing. Pressing the secret switch on the badge makes the latch make a noise but won’t close in tight - I can still open it.

So as now I have to open the boot manually with my hands and close it with the button on the boot lip. Whilst the boot is open the latch opens and closes so there is power getting to it. Also it doesn’t look like there is anything jammed in it 

I ran a scan on VCDS and no errors relating to the boot came up.


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

If it make a sound it is working, I think you broke the plastic gears inside the latch. Not repairable, you need to swap it for a new one. Pay attention to the shape off the sliding part that hits the part on the lock for unlocking the latch , older models do have an extended sliding part, newer ones don't and causing troubles with opening the latch by key. In that case you also need to replace the lock with an extended arm, or modify the existing lock, so it won't turn too far causing trouble for turning the key the other way.

Jorg


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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

That's the think the latch opens and closes whilst the boot is in an open position so it actually does work.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Wire harness. It will fix it believe me. Inside boot lid you got a black box which got wires in it when lid opens/ closes those wires bend. Some of them are broken or split inside that's why you got all those problems.

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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Boot harness









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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

https://youtu.be/xwWaiCVyoR4

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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

After changing wire harness you have to re-enter adapt the boot lid. You push lid down as if you would close it and then start re-adaptation procedure as in video up 

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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

raffster1 said:


> That's the think the latch opens and closes whilst the boot is in an open position so it actually does work.


But it doesn't lock itself right? Can you lock them by hand? By pushing them together till they lock itselves.

Jorg

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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

Correct it doesn't lock itself. It doesn't lock by hand either - What two buttons shall I press together? I will lose down the cover this evening within the boot to see what sort of condition the wires are in.

The whole issue arose from a pram clip getting stuck between boot lid and the chrome protector strap.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Did you try re adapting it with vcds?


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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

I will try this tonight and report back - Thanks Guys


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

Huge coinsidance when wires are broken after the lock was blocked.
Probably broken gear inside the latch system

Jorg

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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jorgsphaeton said:


> Huge coinsidance when wires are broken after the lock was blocked.
> Probably broken gear inside the latch system
> 
> Jorg
> ...


Huge coincidences do happen though, Jorg. 

All of the suggestions in this thread are worth checking out. 

The trunk (boot) lid on 8486 worked perfectly including opening and closing by pressing the badge. Perfectly. 

I apologize because the following is very long winded but I do get to the point eventually:

When my NAPA automatic charger wouldn't charge my VPS battery above 6V (it thought it was a 6V battery), I bought a new VPS battery at the dealer. I had to remove the paralleling relay and the fuse box mount to get the battery out so the trunk (boot) was open while I removed all that then closed at night, then opened to put the new fully charged battery in. When I connected the new battery, the alarm sounded. If you have ever been right at the car when the alarm sounded you know how loud that is. 

I quickly disconnected the VPS battery then the starter battery but the alarm still blared. I disconnected the starter battery but the alarm still wouldn't silence. The alarm has its own battery so had people can't disconnect the batteries to silence it but I hadn't learned that yet. 

I had to reconnect both batteries to turn off the alarm. (I guess the alarm system doesn't even care if you press the unlock button if the two main batteries are disconnected.) 

When I reconnected the VPS battery I got a large arc when I connected the positive cable. The trunk (boot) lid didn't work. I tried the trick to re-sync it but that didn't work. VCDS showed a controller fault of course. Since it worked perfectly before I replaced the battery, I 'knew" it wasn't wiring. Since there was a big ark when I connected the VPS battery I assumed I fried the controller. I got a used controller on eBay. That didn't fix it. I got a new controller and that didn't fix it. I was tearing my hair out thinking the controller must need some adaptation or something. I took it to the dealer to see if their scanner had better Kung Fu than VCDS. 

The master VW certified mechanic at the dealer opened the harness and found several broken wires. I paid a bit more for him to temporarily fix them with air bag splices. Spoiler alert, my trunk (boot) lid worked again. 

The trunk (boot) lid controller also controls the trunk interior motion sensor. When you disconnect and reconnect both batteries there is a chance (especially days later) that the system will reset to interior motion sensors on. 

I still think I fried the original controller. It is full of discrete electronics that can be fried by less than 5 volts so an arc from a 12V battery is more than enough to fry it. Having said that, I kept it and am going to try to reset it using VCDS some day although I can't log into it directly. I must go through controller 46 and that has no adaptation for the trunk (boot) lid controller although you can reset controller 46 to factory defaults. 

I pull the alarm horn fuse and the trunk (boot) lid controller fuse now if I am going to be disconnecting the batteries. 

So, long story short - coincidences happen and any movement of the trunk (boot) lid could break wires even if you are moving it by hand. That doesn't mean it _is_ wiring but it could be wiring. 


The following may seem unrelated but illustrates how complex the bus system is and how seemingly unrelated controllers could cause trouble down the line. The Phaeton bus is like an ecosystem that effects everything. 

The TPMS on 8486 was faulted out again yesterday morning. It took a complete reset after an auto scan to clear the fault - "Clear all DTCs" did the trick. More info on that to follow once I drive it again.

Anything that could cause the problem needs to be checked. VCDS would be a big help here if only to reset all controllers. I don't know if "Clear all DTCs" is an option with a generic OBD 2 scanner. 


Just my two cents.


-Eric


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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

Ok guys finally got to look at the boot. Firstly there are wires which are almost broke. I will fix them tomorrow. But my worry is that I have rung the gears of the latch. I tried pressing the button whilst holding the latch with my finger and it made the same noise it does when in the closed position. As if the thing has no power to or gear to turn closed. So when you think about it if the boot was sitting up a. Little from the Oran strap it may have tried to close against the pin and wrung itself inside. I have the part out and am in the process of looking for a replacement. Will keep posted


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Change/fix wires readapt it with boot lód closed position and it Will re adjust it self 

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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

It should lock itself, not electronically, when the pressure is enough to lock itself. Test it by hand. A good latch can be locked just by small pressure against both pivots. Unlocking is electronically/meganically.

Watch out buying another one, there is lenght difference on the manual lock pivot, pushing the lock open. If the wrong one is installed the boot can never be opened by hand with the key.

Jorg

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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

You can't lock the latch by force! In 99% latches are good even if it comes with a mechanical fault in vcds. Don't touch it, just fix wires and readapt. It will work. 

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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

raffster1 said:


> Ok guys finally got to look at the boot. Firstly there are wires which are almost broke. I will fix them tomorrow. But my worry is that I have rung the gears of the latch. I tried pressing the button whilst holding the latch with my finger and it made the same noise it does when in the closed position. As if the thing has no power to or gear to turn closed. So when you think about it if the boot was sitting up a. Little from the Oran strap it may have tried to close against the pin and wrung itself inside. I have the part out and am in the process of looking for a replacement. Will keep posted


You can take the figure 8 cover off over the gears. 

You can look inside to see if everything looks good that way.

If you want you can remove the big gear or the small gear and rotate the shaft without power. You can use the key to open it or press on the plunger and you can use a wrench to rotate the shaft to close and even hide the latch. 

That way you can check out the mechanical operation of the latch. If it doesn't work in your hands without the gears it probably won't work when installed, but if everything works smoothly without the gears and the gears are good, the whole assembly is probably good. 

Good luck.


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

I got a new one in my hand, when latch is expanded, you can close them by hand, the last few cm's to let them lock. You can't make them the whole movement by hand, but the last few are, to let the latch lock itself.

According to the story, it think that last locking function is broken. Opening the case will tell for sure.
You can test the whole mechanism by hand if you remove the motor from the case. Rotate the axle by hand and it should work.

Jorg

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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

You can press on the plunger and unlock it, then press the latch and lock it by hand but not stow the latch (like it does when the lid opens). You cannot maneuver the latch so it would pull the lid closed either. 

With the gears installed, you cannot force the latch to stow unless one of the gears is broken. The motor has a worm gear so you aren't going to force it by hand. 

If you take the gears or motor out you can rotate the shaft with a wrench (I used a Crescent Wrench) and stow the latch. The controller "expects" the latch to be stowed when the lid is open and it gets confused if the latch is not stowed. 

I took the gears out on mine instead of the motor because the motor would just be hanging by its wiring. I am going to be redoing the wires in 8486 as soon as the weather stabilizes so while it's apart, the large gear will be removed so it's easier to latch.


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

raffster1 said:


> Correct it doesn't lock itself. It doesn't lock by hand either - What two buttons shall I press together? I will lose down the cover this evening within the boot to see what sort of condition the wires are in.
> 
> The whole issue arose from a pram clip getting stuck between boot lid and the chrome protector strap.


With a close look at the latch hook you could see a pivot that hooks into the latch hook, without opening the case. It is a pivot with a small spring that falls into the latch hook. Maybe you can see what is happening or not happening, with a little bit of luck it is only a problem with the spring.

Jorg

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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

OK, just to make sure what happends and not with a properly working example to compare with in the video. Yes, I know the car is dirty... First, press the logo once to open lid. Then, just when the lid is open enough to reach the locking mechanism. This to have the locking mechanism protruded to test on. In this state take an allen key or similar with a diameter close to the meating part in the body as a test part. Push it upwards an it should lock in place. Pure mechanical, no electrical aid at all. After this push the logo and the test part should be released. If not, try with a turn of the key in the logo.
After this you should have narrowed the reasons of failiure down.
 https://vimeo.com/322585635

Lennart


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

My boot is heading that way slowly. Every now and then it will be open and the close button won't work so I have to push it closed, then after enough alternating between pressing the VW badge boot unlock and the boot close it finally locks itself closed. All the gears and everything seem to work without an issue so I assume I've got a wire or two that are going which I will repair.

Is it best to order a whole new boot wiring loom or fix it myself. Theoretically speaking they are just wires and so reconnecting the ones that have snapped or about to should be fine no? Something like getting some heat shrinks or wire connectors and re attaching both ends should work find right? Don't want to go ahead and buy a whole wiring loom if its not necessary.

Also, on a side note, I saw a few Passat threads where they had used VCDS to code the interior button and key fob button to close the boot if its open. Is that a Phaeton option? Would be really cool, it seems odd that its standard for you to be able to open the boot off the key but not close it. Not just on the Phaeton, but on pretty much every car...

Last point, is there a way of opening the boot if its closed and the wire breaks? Is the small hole in the badge a full key hole to manually open the power boot in the event of this?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The close button does tend to go bad, too. It's cheap and simple to change, so a good place to start. Mine doesn't always work first time.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> The close button does tend to go bad, too. It's cheap and simple to change, so a good place to start. Mine doesn't always work first time.


Yes, changed mine. As a matter of fact i changed the micro switch insida that was availiable right away at an alternative store, did not want to wait a week for the complete one from VW. And it is a cheap standard switch, €3.

Lennart


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

GuyPaddick said:


> Is it best to order a whole new boot wiring loom or fix it myself. Theoretically speaking they are just wires and so reconnecting the ones that have snapped or about to should be fine no? Something like getting some heat shrinks or wire connectors and re attaching both ends should work find right? Don't want to go ahead and buy a whole wiring loom if its not necessary.?


It depends on the damage and your opinion. 7579 had several broken wires and I replaced the harness myself. 8486 had a few broken wires and the dealer mechanic fixed those with airbag splices but I was told it was temporary at best even with a new harness. 8486 needs reworking again. I will open it up and check out the damage. If it's just a few small wires like last time I will probably see if I can buy the airbag splices. If not, I will tear it all apart to replace the harness and count on two weeks of downtime. (Parts will have to be ordered if I break anything or run out of parts like butt splices, etc..) I used genuine VW butt splices, OEM German black cloth electrical tape, Germany yellow wire repair tape and generic heat shrink to cover the splice. I also found crimpers about halfway the replacement on 7579 that worked great. (Simple pliers like crimpers.) Half of my crimps on 7579 look sloppy and the other half look good. All are good crimps electrically but the second half look much better. I kept messing up the butt splices when I was trying to use ratcheting crimpers. At least half of the wires are .025 mm so they use the smallest butt splices and they would get mangled and stuck in the jaws of the ratcheting crimpers. 

As far as opinions, some find more creative ways to route the wires than through the tube. If you let the wires hang down, you have to make sure they don't get caught and break the rear window glass. You also have to make sure nobody else closes the lid without going through a class about how to close the boot from you first. A guy at a tire shop instinctively tried to close my boot when he was "helping" me take my spare out once. He reached up to close it manually before I could stop him. 

The rear window glass apparently has a gasket that cannot be reused so you need to buy a new rear window from VW if you break it. If you try to use a used one you have to invent a new way to attach it but professionals may have a solution. 




GuyPaddick said:


> Also, on a side note, I saw a few Passat threads where they had used VCDS to code the interior button and key fob button to close the boot if its open. Is that a Phaeton option? Would be really cool, it seems odd that its standard for you to be able to open the boot off the key but not close it. Not just on the Phaeton, but on pretty much every car...?


Nope.



GuyPaddick said:


> Last point, is there a way of opening the boot if its closed and the wire breaks? Is the small hole in the badge a full key hole to manually open the power boot in the event of this?


Yes, if the latch isn't broken. In some cases the latch has been jammed and it was not possible to open the trunk manually. 

The lid is hard to open but it is normally possible. It has enough downforce to stay closed with hydraulic pressure so you could drive all around with the latch completely removed. 

There are many, many, many threads on the trunk or boot lid not working and all of your questions have been answered before. The original thread in the TOC about replacing the harness is a good place to start. I think I was the last or one of the last contributors to that thread. 

There is also a thread about replacing the controller if your wires are all good.


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

I would spend 400€ for new wiring, it will at least survive another 7 years without any problems.

Jorg

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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

No point getting new harnes, buy good quality wires that are flexible. It should be no more that 20-$50 to fix. 

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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> No point getting new harnes, buy good quality wires that are flexible. It should be no more that 20-$50 to fix.
> 
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I agree as I don't enjoy paying overprice for inferior quality parts. The original harnes is not made for the job it is put to do, that is a fact. That is the case on many cars with wiring that needs to be flexible but that does not help. If you want to pay some hundred € and don't need it to last for more than about seven years that would work but I would be at my second change now if I had gone that way. Even if you get a complete harnes it is quite much work involved and it is not that fun to do it all again. The extra work to have it done as it should be with high flex wires is almost negligible and it cost a fraction of the original harnes. So if you plan to keep the car for more than a few years the choise is easy, at least as far as I am concerned.

Lennart


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## Wiking (Dec 5, 2007)

My lid stopped working a few weeks ago and today I found the problem! The previous owner did a great job with the harness! :banghead:
A thin green/white wire is cut and the yellow/red needs some work... 
My final solution will be to cut the plastic tube and put all the wires into a cable chain used in CNC-machines.


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

ravenflies said:


> I agree as I don't enjoy paying overprice for inferior quality parts. The original harnes is not made for the job it is put to do, that is a fact. That is the case on many cars with wiring that needs to be flexible but that does not help. If you want to pay some hundred € and don't need it to last for more than about seven years that would work but I would be at my second change now if I had gone that way. Even if you get a complete harnes it is quite much work involved and it is not that fun to do it all again. The extra work to have it done as it should be with high flex wires is almost negligible and it cost a fraction of the original harnes. So if you plan to keep the car for more than a few years the choise is easy, at least as far as I am concerned.
> 
> Lennart


The SSB do mention flex wires in the boot harnass (in 2002), but I think that over years the isolation gets hardened and breaks in cold temperatures. How old are your high flex wires? where did you buy them?

Jorg


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Hi Jorg,
I am working in Norway at the moment but I will check when I get back home. I bought the car 2013 and it was quite soon after that I spent a day in the trunk.

Lennart


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I miss Norway. Most spectacular natural scenery I've ever seen.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> I miss Norway. Most spectacular natural scenery I've ever seen.


I am drivning through some of the landscape in the P right now. Not the most spectacular parts but the scenery along the steep lake sides beats very much along the roads. Too bad it gets less and less interresting the closer to home I get.








The snow depth this morning made even the P look small.

Lennart


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Good grief. I've driven from Stavanger to Lysebotn, but that was in the summer. Loved that place.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Some kilometers and hours later, not as nice as at the start in Raufoss near Lillehammer. Stumbled into a ski jumping competition in the Olympic ski jumping hill. Quite a scenery over the village by the lake! Hmm, escaped a bit from the subject but i opened and closed the boot lid a lot on the visit!

Lennart


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## raffster1 (Jan 24, 2015)

Hi Guys - I'm at a bit of a loss now as my process has left me with a boot that is now not working at all. So I fixed all the wires in the wiring loom - some of which were not totally broken but just a little - I then tried to adapt the boot as per the video earlier in the post and nothing happened. Its as if I cannot communicate to the controller. I plugged in VCDS and it is not communicating with controller 24. The light is on in the dash and the little light is still on to the switch on the boot lid so there must be some sort of power getting to it. At this stage I don't know what to do - im thinking it could need a new controller completely? Is there anyway I can change out the boot controller for a manual latch and button on the external. Or is there anyone can help me fix the boot in Northern Ireland? Thanks in advance guys.


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

In my case, the dealership also reconnected all the broken wires, with still a broken lid, changed controller.. still broken lid, afterall germany connected to the car and found a bad connection, still connected but not supplying enough power/signal,that the controller needed. So new wiring fixed the problem. Thats why I said replace the wiring.
I'm not saying it is the same in your case, but it could be still a bad connection. Especially because it connected to the controller before soldering. Check all the wiring again, maybe you missed one that is still looking well, but internally broken. They also break in the lower bend and in the black box in the bootlid

Jorg

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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Change it they may be broken in more than one place. Even if wire seems to be ok from outside it doesn't mean is not broken inside. Cut wires fit new re-adapt. 

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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Cut them fit new one's

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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

raffster1 said:


> Hi Guys - I'm at a bit of a loss now as my process has left me with a boot that is now not working at all. So I fixed all the wires in the wiring loom - some of which were not totally broken but just a little - I then tried to adapt the boot as per the video earlier in the post and nothing happened. Its as if I cannot communicate to the controller. I plugged in VCDS and it is not communicating with controller 24. The light is on in the dash and the little light is still on to the switch on the boot lid so there must be some sort of power getting to it. At this stage I don't know what to do - im thinking it could need a new controller completely? Is there anyway I can change out the boot controller for a manual latch and button on the external. Or is there anyone can help me fix the boot in Northern Ireland? Thanks in advance guys.


What's controller 24? I don't have a controller 24.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

OK, looked at the online demo for VCDS. 24 is an anti-slip controller in the Chassis. (Probably not for Phaeton since we have an ABS controller.)

The trunk lid controller is controlled by controller 46. Check there. Clear faults there.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2018)

Go into controler 46 !! Then go into adaptation - type in channel 24! Read go save . remember when doing re adapting you boot lid needs to be in down position.

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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Jorgsphaeton said:


> The SSB do mention flex wires in the boot harnass (in 2002), but I think that over years the isolation gets hardened and breaks in cold temperatures. How old are your high flex wires? where did you buy them?
> 
> Jorg


Hm... just refreshed my memory with the write up ”Generator replacement - the easy way” written by Willem. Very helpful after an alternator break down that hit me a few days ago. So I will have to wait to have a closer look at the wiring. I changed it 2014 or 2015 and the small parts I can see looks good. The insulation is totally different and I doubt very much that it will give up in many many years. And the colour meets VWs demands on replaced wiring 
Here is a link to the most common thinner size in the harness. I used similar for the larger few but had to choose carefully to get them all to fit inside the tube but I don’t have any part number for that one.

 https://www.buerklin.com/medias/sy...t-kabeltronik-lih-t120-050-ge-en-20161223.pdf










Lennart


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