# Audi TT RS APR Stage I/II



## dodongjuan (Feb 2, 2014)

Hi

I have been looking around the forum for updates with regards to previously reported issues with APR Stage I/II on Audi TT TR. The thread seems to have just stopped without any conclusion ..? Are they all resolved ..?


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

The new tune came out in late Spring of 2013 and it resolved all issue for me and I believe it resolved all the complaints that were being discussed by others. A new program switching feature was added not long ago and it seems to work as promised.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

i just posted up some results from a dyno session today in case you want to see the actual increases i'm seeing with my car.
the issues you're asking about have definitely been solved and the car is working flawlessly.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

The rattling noise issue is still not resolved. I am still waiting for answers on that on my stage 1.


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## dodongjuan (Feb 2, 2014)

Can you describe the rattling noise problem you are experiencing ..?


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

dodongjuan said:


> Can you describe the rattling noise problem you are experiencing ..?


The best way to describe it is a rattle noise, almost like a shroud is loose and vibrating as you accelerate, however it isn't something loose, its a cam timing change that APR makes and as of yet it is not resolved.

Very annoying and sickly sounding, so much so that I normally switch to the stock tune now unless I plan on going out to some back roads and am in a spirited mood.


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## mike'sttrs (May 7, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> The best way to describe it is a rattle noise, almost like a shroud is loose and vibrating as you accelerate, however it isn't something loose, its a cam timing change that APR makes and as of yet it is not resolved.
> 
> Very annoying and sickly sounding, so much so that I normally switch to the stock tune now unless I plan on going out to some back roads and am in a spirited mood.


So is your car the only one having this problem or is this problem pervasive amongst people that have these tunes performed on their car?


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

funny i forgot about this. mine had it a bit but not as bad as it sounds like some are experiencing. and after the 2+ tune it was so low, at first i thought they fixed it completely. it is still there a touch though. orders of magnutude less than the rattle you get if you blip the throttle a bit after startup though. hell that noise sounds like a heat shield fell into the motor lol. and that's a stock sound.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

mike'sttrs said:


> So is your car the only one having this problem or is this problem pervasive amongst people that have these tunes performed on their car?


No, if you search the forum a little, you will see its not just mine.

As usual APR's response is non-exsistant unless it keeps getting brought up and even then it doesn't seem like they want to do anything about it.

Last I heard they were going to look into it with a stage 1 and 2 car that they were going to work on, but that was over a month ago now.

They just don't really care to bring this issue to a close, evident by their lack of addressing it head-on. 

They seem to be hoping that people will just stop asking about it and it will get buried pages down.

I had full intention to go to stage 2 this spring along with the intercooler, but APR will not see another dime from me.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Can you record the sound and hear it easily?



TRZ06 said:


> No, if you search the forum a little, you will see its not just mine.
> 
> As usual APR's response is non-exsistant unless it keeps getting brought up and even then it doesn't seem like they want to do anything about it.
> 
> ...


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

Marty said:


> Can you record the sound and hear it easily?


I've tried, but my iphone doesn't capture it well, too many ambient noises present, road noise, wind noise, etc.


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

I forgot about this issue and I am not totally sure I have it. However, when I go WOT in 1st or 2nd and I am at high RPMS with high torque (obviously) there is a rattle of sorts. I don't know if rattle is really the right word, but the first time I heard it I thought there was something lose on my new DP. It was checked and rechecked and nothing seems to be loose. I don't hear the rattle unless I really get on it and when I do hear it, it is only moderately annoying. 

I don't know if "rattle" is really the right word. It is like the exhaust note changes from the pleasant growl to something like a cheap "high performance" muffler sound on a old Honda Civic. Its not quite that bad and since it only happens for about .5 seconds every once and a while I don't think about it often.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

One other thing to is that William is correct, a decatted downpipe also causes a rattling sound as the exhaust pulse hits the elbow of the pipe with no interference from the primary cat element.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> They seem to be hoping that people will just stop asking about it and it will get buried pages down.



No, we just can't drop everything we're doing and conduct tests for a trivial noise on a car that we don't have (ours is Stage 3). I told you it was being looked into and it is. We've had a Stage 2 TT-RS at APR for about the last week. You'll hear more when we're ready to release something.

Your car is fine. Nothing is broken and nothing is going to break. It's being looked into and we'll come back with a definitive answer when we have one.


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## Nin Din Din (Dec 11, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> No, we just can't drop everything we're doing and conduct tests for a trivial noise on a car that we don't have (ours is Stage 3). I told you it was being looked into and it is. We've had a Stage 2 TT-RS at APR for about the last week. You'll hear more when we're ready to release something.
> 
> Your car is fine. Nothing is broken and nothing is going to break. It's being looked into and we'll come back with a definitive answer when we have one.



Some TTRS guys are experiencing a bit of trouble and a snarky, dismissive comment is APR's response? If your reply doesn't serves to tarnish APR's hallowed credibility it certainly will deter future customers, like me.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

Nin Din Din said:


> Some TTRS guys are experiencing a bit of trouble and a snarky, dismissive comment is APR's response? If your reply doesn't serves to tarnish APR's hallowed credibility it certainly will deter future customers, like me.


It wasn't meant to come off as snarky. He hears a noise. Nobody can produce a recording of it. We're pretty sure it's a cam noise. We've told him this. We've also told him that we'll explore it in further detail when we have a car available.

He posts in every single thread that is related to anything APR. He says the same thing over and over. I'm tired of reading it.

We are aware of his issue. We aren't ignoring it. We don't deserve the kind of things he's saying about us.


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## dodongjuan (Feb 2, 2014)

Will it help then if he can bring the car to one of your dealers/installers and make them document/diagnose it there?


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

i have a rattle/tin can sound, but thats because the exhaust valve has gone faulty, when it is closed it buzzes, above 3.5k when it opens up or sport mode is on there is no rattling sound


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> It wasn't meant to come off as snarky. He hears a noise. Nobody can produce a recording of it. We're pretty sure it's a cam noise. We've told him this. We've also told him that we'll explore it in further detail when we have a car available.
> 
> He posts in every single thread that is related to anything APR. He says the same thing over and over. I'm tired of reading it.
> 
> We are aware of his issue. We aren't ignoring it. We don't deserve the kind of things he's saying about us.


Yes, I keep bringing it up because we are now on month 3 and nothing has been done about it. Over a month ago I got a PM that said APR was going to have 2 cars, a stage 1 and a stage 2 in house "in the next week" and that you would figure out what it is and find a solution. OVER A MONTH AGO, still not a new single word until I re-bring it up in a thread.

Also, you have so received a recording of the noise. I forget who it was now, but in a previous post about this issue, you were sent a video clip of the sound from another forum member.

You say it is not an issue that will affect the longevity, but how can you say that when you don't even KNOW (not just think) what is causing it. If it is in fact a CAM timing issue and there is backlash going on, that can not be good for long term reliability.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

dodongjuan said:


> Will it help then if he can bring the car to one of your dealers/installers and make them document/diagnose it there?


I did do that. I took it back to my installer the very next day and they drove it and heard the noise and said they would contact APR. The installer was 034 Motorsports.


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## Koa1 (Feb 21, 2012)

Gotta give APR credit for being consistent. Consistently disrespectful to their customers once they have their money. All anybody has to do is a little research here and on quattroworld to see how arrogant these guys are in spite of ongoing problems with their products. This is the number 1 reason my ECU remains untouched. You just can't trust these guys.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

This really must only be an issue on US cars,as I've not seen one post in Europe from someone with this problem.
I have however seen that an engine builder says there is a design fault with the head that he corrects with his engine re-builds.
What that is, and what he does he keeps to himself.
As far as APR's customer service goes,it's in a different class to other tuners I've dealt with over here.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> This really must only be an issue on US cars,as I've not seen one post in Europe from someone with this problem.
> I have however seen that an engine builder says there is a design fault with the head that he corrects with his engine re-builds.
> What that is, and what he does he keeps to himself.
> As far as APR's customer service goes,it's in a different class to other tuners I've dealt with over here.


What fault with the head? Do you refer to Race Developments?


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> Yes, I keep bringing it up because we are now on month 3 and nothing has been done about it. Over a month ago I got a PM that said APR was going to have 2 cars, a stage 1 and a stage 2 in house "in the next week" and that you would figure out what it is and find a solution. OVER A MONTH AGO, still not a new single word until I re-bring it up in a thread.
> 
> Also, you have so received a recording of the noise. I forget who it was now, but in a previous post about this issue, you were sent a video clip of the sound from another forum member.
> 
> You say it is not an issue that will affect the longevity, but how can you say that when you don't even KNOW (not just think) what is causing it. If it is in fact a CAM timing issue and there is backlash going on, that can not be good for long term reliability.


1. Yes, I was sent a recording. The noise can't be heard in it.
2. There was a delay in getting the car, but we've got it now.
3. We are very certain that our answer is correct. 100% confirmation requires a car that we didn't have and a torn down engine that we also didn't have (to verify the mechanical bits).


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

dodongjuan said:


> Will it help then if he can bring the car to one of your dealers/installers and make them document/diagnose it there?


Not without somebody flying out there to meet the car.

We HAVE done that in the past. We did it not too long ago to resolve an issue with the TT-RS R boxcode losing power under certain high load conditions. That was a problem that required immediate decisive action. This isn't.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist or that it doesn't matter.

Everything has to be measured on an objective scale of importance and have resources dedicated to it accordingly. This is (most likely) a gear lash noise coming from the cams. They're metal on metal devices. They make lash noise stock (you can't hear it because it only happens above about 3500 RPM.. but, it's still there). Nothing is getting damaged by it and the drivability of the car isn't affected.

It's didn't rise to the level of requiring stopping what we were doing to work on it.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

TRZ06 said:


> If it is in fact a CAM timing issue and there is backlash going on, that can not be good for long term reliability.


Not backlash but lash. Gears rubbing together always make noise. The adjustable cam timing pushes the gears to adjust their position. Stock, this is only done at high rpm. We do it at lower RPM than stock. The noise is there stock too, but you can't hear it because of engine noise. 

The cam parts are being used as they're designed to be used, we just do it earlier.

I apologize that we didn't discuss this part before. I was always under the impression that you understood what I'd said. 

I take the blame for that.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

This is just silly APR is taking this kind of abuse publicly over non-issue cam timing and Sean's impressive restraint while dealing with you over and over is commendable. APR has been completely honest, if not more honest than I've seen a tuning company ever be. Where is all this hate coming from? APR clearly has given an explanation, and it is a very valid one that others can reproduce. You paid to get one of the highest performing tunes and you expected them not to change anything to get that level of performance? Besides, the TT-RS practically skipped NVH testing and has little acoustic treatment in and around the engine bay. You are going to hear noises.

I find fault with a few of APR's product decisions, but their business sense and attention to detail where needed has always been very good. They don't have the money to roll out the red carpet for everyone that needs to be coddled, they are already spending a lot of time and money offering exceptional customer support and answering every question we have in detail, where other vendors barely answer a phone.

If you want to argue that you were outside of the niche for this product and you bought it because APR made it easy and accessible to people who don't know better, OK fine, they probably didn't explain how tuning works, but you may be surprised about the reality of tuning a performance vehicle and consider it a lesson learned. You VOIDED your engine warranty to get this, if you wanted factory Audi cam noises and safety blankets, you wouldn't have intentionally run your engine out of factory spec. This one sided APR bashing party really needs to get some perspective on the situation, they are not Audi, they are offering products that let YOU gamble on trading reliability for performance. If you aren't comfortable, go back to the stock tune.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

CarbonRS said:


> This is just silly APR is taking this kind of abuse publicly over non-issue cam timing and Sean's impressive restraint while dealing with you over and over is commendable. APR has been completely honest, if not more honest than I've seen a tuning company ever be. Where is all this hate coming from? APR clearly has given an explanation, and it is a very valid one that others can reproduce. You paid to get one of the highest performing tunes and you expected them not to change anything to get that level of performance? Besides, the TT-RS practically skipped NVH testing and has little acoustic treatment in and around the engine bay. You are going to hear noises.
> 
> I find fault with a few of APR's product decisions, but their business sense and attention to detail where needed has always been very good. They don't have the money to roll out the red carpet for everyone that needs to be coddled, they are already spending a lot of time and money offering exceptional customer support and answering every question we have in detail, where other vendors barely answer a phone.
> 
> If you want to argue that you were outside of the niche for this product and you bought it because APR made it easy and accessible to people who don't know better, OK fine, they probably didn't explain how tuning works, but you may be surprised about the reality of tuning a performance vehicle and consider it a lesson learned. You VOIDED your engine warranty to get this, if you wanted factory Audi cam noises and safety blankets, you wouldn't have intentionally run your engine out of factory spec. This one sided APR bashing party really needs to get some perspective on the situation, they are not Audi, they are offering products that let YOU gamble on trading reliability for performance. If you aren't comfortable, go back to the stock tune.


Agreed. :thumbup:


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

Marty said:


> Agreed. :thumbup:


yes well said!.

btw, if you want to hear some noise try driving an evo for 15 minutes. the decel noise alone makes you certain that something is horribly wrong


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## Doctor 911 (Jan 8, 2013)

My car is stock and I think I have that noise you guys are talking about. So maybe it's possibly that it's not an APR issue. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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