# Fuel Grade for V6?



## markitzero (May 10, 2003)

GF was told when she purchased her Touareg V6 that it "runs better on 91, but will run fine on 87"... She mentioned to me that it was hesitating while accelerating, almost like someone has choking it for fuel.. a very non-linear feeling. So, I drove it for a day and she was right... it was running like crap for a new car with less than 5k miles on it. I go to the gas station and open the fuel door and notice a sticker that said 91 octane was required. I filled with 91 and it seems to be running better.
What's the official take on this? Is 91 an absolute?


_Modified by markitzero at 5:04 PM 6-3-2005_


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (markitzero)*


_Quote, originally posted by *markitzero* »_...and open the fuel door and notice a sticker that said 91 octane was required. I filled with 91 and it seems to be running better.
What's the official take on this? Is 91 and absolute?

I suppose the sticker could have been someone's idea of a sick joke...


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (markitzero)*


_Quote, originally posted by *markitzero* »_......What's the official take on this? Is 91 an absolute?

_Modified by markitzero at 4:58 PM 6-3-2005_

The V6 is specked at 95/98 oct rating (91/93 oct US).
This is according to the sticker and the manual, where it is clearly stated that it runs at 98 (93 US) but can also run at 95 (91 US) with a small loss of performance.
So consider 91 the minimum specified and use 93 for top performance.


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## See5 (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (markitzero)*

Mine runs fine on regular.


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (jinxegg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jinxegg* »_The V6 is specked at 95/98 oct rating (91/93 oct US).
This is according to the sticker and the manual, where it is clearly stated that it runs at 98 (93 US) but can also run at 95 (91 US) with a small loss of performance.
So consider 91 the minimum specified and use 93 for top performance.

91/93 is the same octane blend, but rated with different methods. One can use a lower grade, but the ECU will "detune" the engine as a result. Some folks, based on the way they drive, can do this with no problems, others have issues, similar to the original poster.


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (Curjo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Curjo* »_
91/93 is the same octane blend, but rated with different methods.....

These are different octane blends, rated with the same method, the US method.
EU ratings are 95/98, which are equivalent to US ratings of 91/93.
So, EU 95 octane = US 91 octane and EU 98 octane = US 93 octane.
The V6 is specked for 95/98 EU ratings = 91/93 US ratings.
Top performance with EU 98 octane = 93 US octane.
Small loss in performance with EU 95 octane = 91 US octane.
The sticker is no joke, it needs minimum 91 US octane.


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (jinxegg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jinxegg* »_These are different octane blends, rated with the same method, the US method.
EU ratings are 95/98, which are equivalent to US ratings of 91/93.
So, EU 95 octane = US 91 octane and EU 98 octane = US 93 octane.
The V6 is specked for 95/98 EU ratings = 91/93 US ratings.
Top performance with EU 98 octane = 93 US octane.
Small loss in performance with EU 95 octane = 91 US octane.
The sticker is no joke, it needs minimum 91 US octane.

No, they are not different blends, but different methods of measuring the ratings. In California, premium is 91, and in Florida, premium is 93. However, in CA, they use the R+M/2 rating, while in Florida, it's commonly listed as the RON only. In any event, VW recommends premium (91/93) in NA for the Touareg.
And, yes, there are different blends... the California Air Quality Board has mandated different blends by county, by city, and by region. That's one of the reasons that gasoline is expensive in a state that produces huge amounts of gasoline. However, the blends listed as premium must meet the octane ratings as poorly explained in the above paragraph.
Cheers,


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (Curjo)*

The altitude here in Colorado changes everything. My service manager says there's no need for super unleaded and that mid-grade is just fine. He did recommend burning super at least once a month. So, I'm just following his rule.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (Curjo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Curjo* »_
No, they are not different blends, but different methods of measuring the ratings. In California, premium is 91, and in Florida, premium is 93. However, in CA, they use the R+M/2 rating, while in Florida, it's commonly listed as the RON only. In any event, VW recommends premium (91/93) in NA for the Touareg....,

I don't think that's true. I'm pretty sure all states in the US require the R+M/2. I am certain, however, that all states require the measurment method to be declared on a sticker on the pump.
Check closely next time you gas up curjo, I bet you will see R+M/2 on the pump.


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_I don't think that's true. I'm pretty sure all states in the US require the R+M/2. I am certain, however, that all states require the measurment method to be declared on a sticker on the pump.
Check closely next time you gas up curjo, I bet you will see R+M/2 on the pump.

I thought that I had seen a different octane rating reference somewhere, but I'll be dang if I can find it on the Internet... So, until I can prove otherwise, I'll readily accept R+M/2 as the octane rating standard throughout the US. (And I certainly agree about the sticker -- FTC requirement.)
What's interesting is that you will not find an octane higher than 91 in California (and I think in Colorado), but Texas to Florida has 93. If a state has 93 octane, then 91 is not available, and vice-versa. I'm omitting those odd-ball sources that cater to racing cars and airplanes, just the normal automotive gas station.
Here's a couple of outstanding links to more info than you'd ever want regarding gasoline (and a little on diesel, too):
http://www.agmkt.state.ny.us/WM/wmpetrol.html 
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/ 
Both sites add "fuel" (sorry, I couldn't resist) to the discussion about whether or not you should (or could) use a lower rated fuel than 91/93 in the Touareg. (Not to mention reformulated gasolines, alcohol blends, and MTBE...)
Enjoy,


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (Curjo)*

Ok, talking about measuring methods, here's what stated on my fuel sticker: 98 RON / 95 ROZ Super Premium Unleaded.
Alternatively in the manual it is stated that 95 RON (I suppose that would be 91 ROZ) can be used with a small loss in power and performance.
The manual is the Bible on such issues and no dealer can change that.
Anyway Curjo, you were supposed to run some ignition timing testing with different fuels, remember?


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (jinxegg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jinxegg* »_
Anyway Curjo, you were supposed to run some ignition timing testing with different fuels, remember?









Surprisingly, I do remember... And I even tried it once. I almost wrecked while messing with the laptop, cable draping across my knees... So, I gave up the effort and decided to follow the manual's recommendations. Perhaps one day, when I have someone equally obsessed with Vag-Coms, I'll give it another try.


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## treg4574 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (markitzero)*

Try a different brand of gas.
I have had the experience that some brands run better they others. I previously drove a turbo daily and it had an indicator that would tell me when the knock sensor was active. As some stations I could run 89 octane with no problems. At other stations I had to use the 93 octane to keep the knock sensor from backing down the timing.
From 5 years ago, the best stations in my area were Exxon and Chevron. The generic stations would vary from station to station. Some good and some bad.
Run a can of the Techron cleaner thru the vehicle and get better gas. The decision of 87/89/93 is up to you. 
The better the gas and the better the octane = the less time the ECU will back down the timing = better performing engine.



_Modified by treg4574 at 11:15 AM 6-4-2005_


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## SUVW (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (See5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *See5* »_Mine runs fine on regular.

I've had four V6 engines in VWs and in all of them I realized a noticeable difference in power with regular vs. premium. Yes, it runs fine, but comparitively speaking, you may not be realizing what you're missing.


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## See5 (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (SUVW)*

No doubt the knock sensor will kick the timing back a few degrees under load which might be noticable in an A<>B test.
I decided to never race the Treg for big money with regular gas, so no problems so far..


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## DonPablo50 (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (markitzero)*

Can I ask why one would use regular when 91/93 octane is recommended? I'm not knockin on anyone, I'm just curious. I just use premium because that's what the manual and sticker say to use.


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## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_
I don't think that's true. I'm pretty sure all states in the US require the R+M/2. I am certain, however, that all states require the measurment method to be declared on a sticker on the pump.
Check closely next time you gas up curjo, I bet you will see R+M/2 on the pump.

i second that. US is (r+m)/2 throughout. Europe is ron throughout.
the highest octane i saw in colorado was 91. the same in cali. in indiana different stations have different premiums: 91, 92 and 93.
also there are quite a bit of stations who add up to 10% of ethanol even in summer. i do not see a decrease in performance of my V8 if such a fuel is used but the fuel economy worsens proportionally to the percentage of added ethanol.


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (****us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *****us* »_ i do not see a decrease in performance of my V8 if such a fuel is used but the fuel economy worsens proportionally to the percentage of added ethanol. 

Alcohol has less energy/unit then gasoline. Consequently, you're seeing a decrease in mileage, because you are experiencing a loss of performance.


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (DonPablo50)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DonPablo50* »_Can I ask why one would use regular when 91/93 octane is recommended? I'm not knockin on anyone, I'm just curious. I just use premium because that's what the manual and sticker say to use.

I'm puzzled, also. It seems that in the US, we have developed a culture where it is paramount to search out the cheapest source of gasoline. (In fact, it's often announced on the radio...) I've seen folks drive several miles out of their way (go to Costco, for instance) to save 2 cents per gallon. On a 26 gallon tank, assuming it's completely empty, they are saving 52 cents! Imagine how much it costs to drive a few miles, in terms of tire wear, engine wear, risk of an accident, etc. Good marketing, poor cost management.


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (Curjo)*

*Dear God... anyone who is running anything but PREMIUM FUEL in their V6 Touareg is an idiot. The engine is nearly identical to that in the R32 (which I just traded for a V8 Touareg), and only differs in ECU calibration. The compression is 11.3:1, and if you're running regular unleaded fuel, you are most likely pinging like crazy. If you have an engine failure, your fuel will be tested, and your warranty claim almost certainly denied. You will be left with a $10000 bill. Please don't be stupid.*


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## See5 (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (N2N)*

Careful with your "idiot" judgments I am not running regular in your vehicle and my Treg is not pinging.


_Modified by See5 at 8:54 PM 6-5-2005_


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (See5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *See5* »_Careful with your "idiot" judgments I am not running regular in your vehicle and my Treg is not pinging.


Just because you can't hear it doesn't mean that it's not pinging.
Eventually, you will get an MIL becuase the engine will be under
enough load, or the temp will be hot enough, where it cannot 
dial back the timing enough to stop the detonation.
Time is ticking away. 
It's ~$4 more per tank to fill up with Premium. 
Just spend the money and operate the
engine with the recommended fuel. It 
may save you the expense of having to
pay for a damaged engine from the wrong
choice of fuel.


_Modified by N2N at 9:06 PM 6-5-2005_


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## TXBDan (Dec 29, 2002)

if youre not running at least 91oct, your engine is running a very retarded timing. i know this because someone once put 87 in my R32 (same engine) and it would ping on anything more than half throttle below 4k. 
a second time a friend of mine bought a new R32 and dealer filled it up w/ regular for him! it behaved identically to mine on regular.
so yes, the engine wont kill itself so over time it will retard the ignition timing to reduce detonation, but that isnt how the engine was designed and is certainly less than ideal.
and just think of it this way, as gas prices rise, premium is proportionately becoming cheaper and cheaper! get it!


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: (TXBDan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TXBDan* »_if youre not running at least 91oct, your engine is running a very retarded timing. i know this because someone once put 87 in my R32 (same engine) and it would ping on anything more than half throttle below 4k. 
a second time a friend of mine bought a new R32 and dealer filled it up w/ regular for him! it behaved identically to mine on regular.
so yes, the engine wont kill itself so over time it will retard the ignition timing to reduce detonation, but that isnt how the engine was designed and is certainly less than ideal.
and just think of it this way, as gas prices rise, premium is proportionately becoming cheaper and cheaper! get it!

3 days of running on crappy gas gave me a MIL on my R32
I had to fill up w/ half tank of 100 octane, and clear codes
via VAG-COM
With my V8 Treg, when it's cold I can't jump on the throttle
at all or it pings, on 93 octane fuel. I couldn't imagine driving
around with a motor w/higher compression on 87.


_Modified by N2N at 9:17 PM 6-5-2005_


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## See5 (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (N2N)*

Based on age I have twice your experience and I assure you the my Treg is not detonating. With most modern engines including the Touareg, knock is prevented by automatic ignition timing adjustments based on octane and load. When was the last time you heard of a normally aspirated, unmodified modern engine having detonation damage? Without full spark advance you not have 100% power but engine life is not an issue.
I said earlier in this thread that I was using regular with no problems. This is a fact.
I ran my previous premium speced 97 Maxima on mostly regular for 170K miles and my son still drives it. Never has had an engine repair, so the clock ticks very slowly.


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (See5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *See5* »_Based on age I have twice your experience and I assure you the my Treg is not detonating. 

Pulling the age card. That _is_ weak.
I should have known... you own a 'Vette:
The Official Vehicle of Mid-Life Crisis.
Christ...
So, you have one vehicle that has made it on regular gas for 170k miles.
The VQ30 engine doesn't have 11.3:1 compression. 


_Modified by N2N at 9:37 PM 6-5-2005_


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## [email protected] (Jun 2, 2005)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (See5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *See5* »_Based on age I have twice your experience and I assure you the my Treg is not detonating. With most modern engines including the Touareg, knock is prevented by automatic ignition timing adjustments based on octane and load. When was the last time you heard of a normally aspirated, unmodified modern engine having detonation damage? Without full spark advance you not have 100% power but engine life is not an issue.
I said earlier in this thread that I was using regular with no problems. This is a fact.
I ran my previous premium speced 97 Maxima on mostly regular for 170K miles and my son still drives it. Never has had an engine repair, so the clock ticks very slowly.

why buy a 40k vehicle then attempt to save every last cent while risking the thing running of dung?
either put it whats reccomended or buy a freaking hunk of crap made to run on 87


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## snowboardegn (May 4, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? ([email protected])*

go back to driving a nissan. don't ruin a vw like that.


_Modified by snowboardegn at 3:43 AM 6-6-2005_


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (snowboardegn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowboardegn* »_go back to driving a nissan.

He's too busy cruisin' for high school chicks in that Vette, dude.
The local mall is the hot spot... over by BeBe for the slutty ones
who dig receding hairlines. He's pawned the Maxima off on his son.


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (N2N)*

On topic:
At any rate... please people, follow the directions.
Use 91+ octane fuel. Besides increased performance,
you will be possibly saving $$ in repairs down the road.
Certain gasolines, like Shell V-Power, have four times
the detergents than regular gasoline, keeping your
injectors from fouling, and saving the expense of having
them cleaned down the road. Simple things that can
make your ownership experience that much better.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (N2N)*


_Quote, originally posted by *N2N* »_
He's too busy cruisin' for high school chicks in that Vette, dude.
The local mall is the hot spot... over by BeBe for the slutty ones
who dig receding hairlines. He's pawned the Maxima off on his son.

Unfortunatetly, your posts that started off sounding well informed, have degraded to typical forum personal bashing. Having done that, you have seriously diminished your own credibility. Too bad.
BTW - I run 91 minimum, but feel a distinct advantage with 93. I have used 87 on occasion, but only feel I can get away with it in the dead of winter where the lower octane seems to be a benefit in sub-freezing air tempratures.


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_
Unfortunatetly, your posts that started off sounding well informed, have degraded to typical forum personal bashing. Having done that, you have seriously diminished your own credibility. Too bad.


Yeah, too bad. Unfortunately, he fits the stereotype, as do I.

_Quote »_
BTW - I run 91 minimum, but feel a distinct advantage with 93. I have used 87 on occasion, but only feel I can get away with it in the dead of winter where the lower octane seems to be a benefit in sub-freezing air tempratures.


I still wouldn't risk it.


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## See5 (Nov 4, 2003)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (N2N)*

I will continue to run my fuel of chioce as will you. Let's lose the insults.
This is from Consumer Reports:
_Paying for premium gas can be a waste of money
Many people use premium gasoline in the belief that it's better for engines than regular. That can be a costly mistake, especially during times of high fuel prices. Octane grades don't represent a “good, better, best” choice; they simply measure the resistance of fuel to knocking or pinging, a condition in which gasoline burns uncontrollably in the engine's combustion chambers. Knocking and pinging can damage an engine.
While high-octane formulations resist knocking better than lower octanes, most engines are designed to take regular gas, which has an octane rating of about 87. Engines requiring premium gas are typically the more powerful ones found in sports and luxury vehicles. Those engines use a very high compression ratio, making them more vulnerable to knocking, so recommended fuels have octane ratings of 91 or higher. Using premium gas in an engine designed to run on regular doesn't improve performance.
Some engines for which premium gasoline is recommended can run on regular without problems. That's because the engine's knock-sensor system detects the presence of uncontrolled burning in the chambers. When it does, the engine's computer-control system retards engine timing, eliminating the knock but slightly reducing power. If you don't mind giving up some performance, you can run these engines on less-expensive regular gasoline. To check whether your engine is capable of running on regular gas, read your owner's manual or ask your dealership's service department.
A hot-running engine or one with deposits may also knock, but premium gas may still not be the best solution. Service a hot-running engine as soon as possible, and handle deposit buildup with treatments that dissolve them. The treatments may be less expensive than regularly using premium gas._


_Modified by See5 at 9:01 AM 6-6-2005_


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: Fuel Grade for V6? (See5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *See5* »_I will continue to run my fuel of chioce as will you. Let's lose the insults.

Of course that's your privilege.
The bottom line is that age, experience and "know it all" attitude can not overcome manufacturer's tech specs, if common sense is to prevail.
You are running your engine out of specs and most probably you will be posting very soon another thread complaining about that "crappy VW quality" because of premature engine problems.
Just don't forget to mention then, that you were running on 87 oct fuel because your ears set better specs than the manufacturer....


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

Wow, this thread has pulled folks from all over VWVortex, many of whom, I suspect, don't own a Touareg... Interesting.
However, if one reads this article: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/, then they will at least know the facts and can make informed decisions about fuel (even stupid decisions).


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## Kevbelz (Dec 27, 1999)

*Re: (Curjo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Curjo* »_Wow, this thread has pulled folks from all over VWVortex, many of whom, I suspect, don't own a Touareg... Interesting.
However, if one reads this article: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/, then they will at least know the facts and can make informed decisions about fuel (even stupid decisions).

Excellent link.
BTW I don't own a touareg either. But I have the same engine in my R32.
Just curious, a question for the the guys who are "against" following the recommendations of using higher octanes- do you think that higher octane fuels is a conspiracy theory propagated by the oil companies?


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## DonPablo50 (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (Kevbelz)*

Wow, when I asked the question, I didn't mean for people to start insulting each other. What you do with your car is your business. I was merely curious, as I thought the reccommended fuel was the way to go. I just didn't know why people would use regular against reccommendations. 
Really, though, we shouldn't be trying to degrade each other.


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (DonPablo50)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DonPablo50* »_...
Really, though, we shouldn't be trying to degrade each other.

Welcom to vwvortex, and the Car Lounge forums!


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## DonPablo50 (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (4x4s)*








I guess that's the case with all forums of any kind


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (DonPablo50)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DonPablo50* »_.....Really, though, we shouldn't be trying to degrade each other.

We are not, we're only trying to upgrade fuel here....


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## taiwanguonanhai (Mar 6, 2005)

everyone talks about 87 and 91/93 like they're the only gases around...how about 89? haha.


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## DesertEight (May 30, 2004)

I follow the VW recommendation, but regardless try to use one of the high detergent brands such as Chevron, 76, Conoco, Phillips and Shell. There actually is some difference, read about it at http://www.toptiergas.com


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## LeBlanc. (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: (DonPablo50)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DonPablo50* »_







I guess that's the case with all forums of any kind









Pretty much








Although, we'd still have the same conversation face-to-face.
But, most likely with alot more laughter.


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