# Used oil analysis, 2010 Passat TSI (Motul 8011 X-cess 5W40)



## sbachmeier (Mar 2, 1999)

Motul used oil analysis: 15,134 miles: 2010 VW Passat TSI

After a long winter of abuse -- numerous cold starts below 0ºF / -18º C, probably numerous short trips that didn't properly warm up the car (my wife is he primary driver of the car) -- the Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40 isn't looking so great anymore. Maybe it's time to think about going with an ester-based oil...


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## 100% Euro (Jul 29, 2008)

I use Motul 300V and I have not had it analysed yet but so far it is the only oil to come out of my pan that still feels like slick oil after 5k miles. Also, I honest to god got 2mpg better economy using it and The motor seems to rev more freely. Highly recommend it.


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## biggs88 (Mar 6, 2011)

sbachmeier said:


> Motul used oil analysis: 15,134 miles: 2010 VW Passat TSI
> 
> After a long winter of abuse -- numerous cold starts below 0ºF / -18º C, probably numerous short trips that didn't properly warm up the car (my wife is he primary driver of the car) -- the Motul 8100 X-cess 5W40 isn't looking so great anymore. Maybe it's time to think about going with an ester-based oil...


Why not try Mobil 1 0w40.

It is one of the best oils out there now, it is speced for your car, and the 0w will help with cold flow during the winter.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

biggs88 said:


> Why not try Mobil 1 0w40.


That's probably the worst choice you could make...

Winter months are rough on whatever oil you select because of the extending rich mixture cycle to warm up the cat... Overall, the UOA doesn't look too bad, but the persistently high iron and silicone are certainly an annoyance. Nice to see the copper continue to trend down, and the absence of fuel dilution is highly encouraging. The TSI seems way superior to the FSI with regards to fuel finding its way into the oil... 

Motul 300V is good stuff, but definitely on the expensive side. I liked Redline in my car, but I was still burning 1/4 qt every 5k miles. I've since switched to RLI and have been very happy with the performance. Haven't burned a drop over the latest 4k run. Those are really the only 3 options for ester based oils that I would consider...


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## biggs88 (Mar 6, 2011)

rhouse181 said:


> That's probably the worst choice you could make...


Post PROOF.

M1 0w40 is one of the best oils made. Read up on Bobistheoilguy.com

M1 0w40 is a great oil. And it is GREAT in cold weather.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

biggs88 said:


> Post PROOF.


I'll steer you in the right direction:

Specifically about M1 0w40 - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4671459

Advantages of ester based oils (Redline as example):

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4536897-Redline-5W40-UOA-2711-miles-17k-on-car-08-GTI

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4433118


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*overboard*



rhouse181 said:


> I'll steer you in the right direction:
> 
> Specifically about M1 0w40 - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4671459
> 
> ...


there aren't many bad synthetic oils. some aren't what they claim to but that does not make them bad. if you change your oil at a reasonable interval it's hard to go wrong, regardless what uoa's say. we're not over the road truckers, taxi's or railroads.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

biggs88 said:


> Post PROOF.
> 
> M1 0w40 is one of the best oils made. Read up on Bobistheoilguy.com
> 
> M1 0w40 is a great oil. And it is GREAT in cold weather.


Why not post links from BITOG? More specifically, with a 2.0T (FSI or TSI)....


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## biggs88 (Mar 6, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> Why not post links from BITOG? More specifically, with a 2.0T (FSI or TSI)....


Sure!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1396680&page=1


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## biggs88 (Mar 6, 2011)

biggs88 said:


> Sure!
> http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1396680&page=1


You may also want to google Doug Hillary Mobil 1 0w40 aswell.

Doug is highly regarded in the automotive lube world. He raves about M1 0w40.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

biggs88 said:


> Sure!
> http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1396680&page=1


And what in that thread lead you to believe that 0w40 is "one of the best oils out there?" There is one statistical anomoly, where 0w40 has not sheered down to a 30 weight oil and exhibited higher prevelence of iron, by a guy who drives 99% highway miles... Is that performance indicative of the entire sample of the M1 0w40? 

The viscosity modifiers needed to get a 0w40 are not stable, and therefore are extremely susceptable to sheering. You throw the fuel dilution issues exhibited by FSIs (not so much TSIs), and you have an amazing receipe for an inadequate oil for the VAG 2.0T DI motors...

Doug Hilary defends his beloved M1 0w40 at all costs, but he conveniently goes quiet when numeruous UOAs proving 0w40s inadequencies are posted :facepalm: 

In no way am I saying that M1 0w40 is a "bad" oil. It is leaps and bounds ahead of any dino oil but that's just comparing apples to oranges. The OP is already running an oil that consistently outperforms M1 0w40 in 99% of the UOA that have been posted on BITOG or vwvortex. Why recommend a downgrade when he is clearly looking for an improvement in longevity and a reduction in wear metals? The only place to go from PAO Motul products is an ester based oil... 

For the 2.0T, there are a million better choices... Here is my UOA comparing Castrol & Motul PAO products vs. Redline ester based:

MI/HR on Unit 13,050 = Castrol Syntec 5w40
MI/HR on Unit 16,655 = Castrol Syntec 5w40
MI/HR on Unit 20,350 = Motul Specific
MI/HR on Unit 24,200 = Motul 8100 X-Cess
MI/HR on Unit 31,600 = 4 qts Redline 5w40, 1 qt Redline w40 Race
MI/HR on Unit 36,700 = 4 qts Redline 5w40, 1 qt Redline w50 Race


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## biggs88 (Mar 6, 2011)

One issue with your UOA's. What you *may* be seeing is just an engine breaking in well. It is widely known and accepted that as the engine goes past 10,000 miles, 20,000 miles, 30,000 miles the wear metal numbers come down.

Sorry, but UOAs, yours being the perfect example, are not definitive. 

Mobil 1 0w40 has the spec approvals from many high end car makers. It can be had a GREAT price (4.99 a quart at Napa right now) and is widely and easily available. Thats whats going in on my statement that it is a fantastic oil.

Redline and Motul are great oils. I know. I have used Redline 5w30 for quite a while in my Lincoln LS.

High iron from Mobil 1 has been seen from Mobil 1 UOAs as a somewhat rough trend. But it is no where near alarming. 

I may have overstated M1 0w40 as THE BEST EVER. But I do think it is one of the best oils available today.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*detergent*

oil with good detergent packages keep solids in suspension. those that don't have good packages will have really clean uoa,s, the solids are in the oil pan.

many manufactures recomend 7-10k oil change intervals and have warranties that extend from 60-100k. think about it for awhile. many don't even require "synthetic" oil. they obviously have some idea about oil and wear characteristics. 

when was the last ime you knew someone who needed rings or bearings? we see more oil burners from failed camshaft belts where the valve collapsed the ring lands than anything else. think about it for awhile.

we can all do as we please and believe what we want. let common sense rule


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

biggs88 said:


> Sorry, but UOAs, yours being the perfect example, are not definitive.


You will be searching forever if you are looking for a definitive answer. What this UOA does provide is strong statistical significance for an oil comparison through UOA. Same motor, same driver and abuse, same brand / grade of gas, etc etc... it eliminates a lot of the variability when it comes to UOA comparisons. 



biggs88 said:


> One issue with your UOA's. What you *may* be seeing is just an engine breaking in well. It is widely known and accepted that as the engine goes past 10,000 miles, 20,000 miles, 30,000 miles the wear metal numbers come down.


I completely agree, but ignore the wear metals for a minute and only focus on the viscosity and flashpoint (which are independent from any influence of break-in). The Redline ester based oils were run for thousands of miles longer, but maintained their viscosity and flashpoint better than the PAO based oils I tried... This ability to maintain viscosity is the simplified goal of any oil, providing the long term ability to protect reciprocating engine parts. One could argue that wear metals are partially dependent based upon viscosity, and most likely you could find a significant correlation between the two variables.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

gmikel said:


> oil with good detergent packages keep solids in suspension. those that don't have good packages will have really clean uoa,s, the solids are in the oil pan.


Errr... I fail to comprehend the logic behind an argument that states that ****ty oil will have awesome UOAs because all the "solids" are left at the bottom of the oil pan. The stuff at the bottom of oils pans is sludge, which is the byproduct of oil that has broken down / oxidized / burnt off the shorter, more volatile molecules. Furthermore, regular UOAs (like Blackstone) are performed by spectrometry and don't even measure these larger particles... whether they are in "suspension" or not.



gmikel said:


> many manufactures recomend 7-10k oil change intervals and have warranties that extend from 60-100k. think about it for awhile. many don't even require "synthetic" oil. they obviously have some idea about oil and wear characteristics.


Don't get me started on the extended oil change intervals... these might be fine on low-tech motors, but not a DI turbo. These extended change intervals are purely a means of reducing the cost of ownership statistics published in Consumer Reports to make cars more attractive to the average consumer. Also, most dealers are picking up the tab when it comes to regular maintenance... do you think VAG might want to save some money by only changing your oil every 10k instead of 5k? 



gmikel said:


> when was the last ime you knew someone who needed rings or bearings? we see more oil burners from failed camshaft belts where the valve collapsed the ring lands than anything else. think about it for awhile.


It's pretty easy if you spent some time on the 2.0T forums... there have been numerous motors getting re-ringed for "oil consumption" issue. But that's for completely unrelated issues... and its not failed timing belts. 

Here is a picture of the rod and main bearings from my old BMW s62 motor, think they need to be replaced?


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*whatever*


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