# c2 or UM , which should i get!



## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

I need a 42# low comp chip. I know umw branched off from c2. Um charges 400 c2 300 for this chip.

Well c2 is having a sale and I'm thinking about taking full advatage of this!

Are there any differences between these? Do both delete sai, rev limiter ect?

This is for a mk3 vrt


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## Dolsson (Jul 23, 2008)

UM all day. Better chip and better support.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

well whats the differences ? ^


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## 99MK3VDUB (Dec 2, 2010)

Dolsson said:


> UM all day. Better chip and better support.


^ THIS....

C2 sells copies of Jeff's (Prior Co-owner of C2) OLD Software and it CAN be unstable. You get what you pay for


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

well whats the differences ? ^


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## 99MK3VDUB (Dec 2, 2010)

meximan said:


> well whats the differences ? ^


like I said, the Old Copies arent 100% and have been known to cause problems in the VW Scene. Im not bad mouthing C2 by any means but I've read many horror stories but from what I understand C2 will help if something goes wrong. I just prefer UM especially with the 630cc tune I'm getting from them, Jeff is the man and knows his $hit, afterall its HIS TUNE they sell. :sly:


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

well whats the differences ? ^


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

damnit stupid thing keeps posting the same post


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## 99MK3VDUB (Dec 2, 2010)

meximan said:


> damnit stupid thing keeps posting the same post


lol...I had the same problem...Server is still having issues.

Bottom line: C2 chip does work, it can also cause problems in many forms or fail and its outdated but yes it works and MANY have no issues. At the end of the day its your choice but I'm going UM for stability and a great tech support and customer service. I've tried using C2 in the past for different items and can't seem to get me what I wanted, needed and the prices were better elsewhere.


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## the mad conductor (Nov 12, 2009)

Um tune all day. 


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## silverjettin (Jan 16, 2002)

um tune is the way to go


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## HotredVR (May 13, 2002)

I ran the c2 42lbs VR6 chip for a long time. It did the job. But once I changed over to UM.
It was night and day on the throttle delivery. Much smother... Go with the UM. Jeff Atwood
Is the person who designs the software.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

thanks everyone  I think the vote is unanimous lol


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## fnvr6t (Apr 29, 2008)

HotredVR said:


> I ran the c2 42lbs VR6 chip for a long time. It did the job. But once I changed over to UM.
> It was night and day on the throttle delivery. Much smother... Go with the UM. Jeff Atwood
> Is the person who designs the software.


So Jeff's old 42# that he did when he was at C2, there's a better 42# tune that he made now that he's with UM?
I know there's still some issues with their 60# tune.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

Called UM today but havent heard from them..

Anyone know or have done it?

Is it possible to re flash the 42# Stock compression file with a 42$ low compression?

Anyone know if theres any charges associated with this as well?


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

meximan said:


> Called UM today but havent heard from them..
> 
> Anyone know or have done it?
> 
> ...


...well you do not flash a mk3 ecu...it literally is a plug and play chip...so you would have to get another chip...also if its the car that is in your description...then i think you might be obdI and will only be able to run the #36 tune...off of the top of my head i cnat remember if there was a obdI #42 tune...


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

^ ive got a obdII donor motor im building  so i dont hav to flinstone my ass to work lol..

Is there any way to verify which tune is on a UM chip? like serial number? If i were to buy a used one I would like to make sure i know what im getting.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

UM/Jeff has made revisions to the VR6 software as recent as the last year so odds are unless you are buying new it most likely isn't the latest stuff. 

All UM tunes are currently on sale. Here specifically is the VR6 Tune for FI $100 off:
Click HERE to purchase

It is also in stock


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

I have booth chips. C2 and UM. And hands down the UM is much better.


One is a mk3 and on a mk2, both obd2. Same exact parts except the mk3 has a 3.0 build. Both of the turbo used at the time on the same boost of 17 psi. same day, same dyno. Back to back dyno's. The mk3 had 2.2k , the mk2 220k with low compression on 2 cylinders (blow the dipstick right out the holder if not zipped down). Both had oem manifolds and 3DP's and 2.5 exhaust at the time. 

Look at the dyno graphs and compare one is much smoother than the other, and the fuel was much better. 


Mk3 C2'd








Mk2 UM'd


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

UM all day, and all night.

Jeff provides some of the best support in the industry - if I have an issue, or even just a question about fuel pressure or something like that - Jeff always responds in a timely manner with a very concise and clear answer. If I need to update or change the tune, I simply shoot it over to his place and he gets it back to me in a few days. (I've waited weeks and months in the past for a tune to be flashed for me.)

and if you drive a VR..... well there's no other choice really. Jeff still owns (used to daily drive?) a VR6 turbo.... I don't know about you.... but I'd rather grab a tune from someone who actually drives the car that (more or less) you will be driving. That was a big plus for me.

my 870cc ProMaf VRT tune with no-lift-shift and launch control is almost flawless. Only a standalone system can be better, but I can't go standalone with the emissions bylaws in my area. And honestly.... I have no need to at the moment.

what comparison? there IS NO comparison - go with UM.


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## VRsixGLI (Oct 23, 2007)

The difference is people are too lazy to do research. No offense to C2 but really the only reason they exist is because of Jeff who is now United. If that isn't enough difference to choose UM you need your head examined.


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## Fast VW (Sep 24, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> UM/Jeff has made revisions to the VR6 software as recent as the last year so odds are unless you are buying new it most likely isn't the latest stuff.
> 
> All UM tunes are currently on sale. Here specifically is the VR6 Tune for FI $100 off:
> Click HERE to purchase
> ...


When was the last time he made changes to the ABA OBDII software? Specifically the 30# tune.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

Fast VW said:


> When was the last time he made changes to the ABA OBDII software? Specifically the 30# tune.


I made an update last week to all the ABA tunes.
Relating to how the revs drop between gears.

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## VEE-DUBBER (Nov 22, 2000)

This thread made me purchase the UM stg.2 software yesterday.
May have my C2 42lb software for sale soon


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

we should have everything in stock if anyone is looking for software. All on sale as well.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

seee my thread turned out to be bad ass  mwahahaha...Def on the too do list. right after i get my damn car running right again >.<


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

When was the last time any work was done to the OBD1 files that use 36lb injectors and a 4" MAF? I would love to hear to be able to update mine some how.


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## the mad conductor (Nov 12, 2009)

There is an update. It's called an obd2 swap


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

the mad conductor said:


> There is an update. It's called an obd2 swap
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VEE-DUBBER (Nov 22, 2000)

Just made the switch from C2 to UM. It's more then a night and day difference.

I purchased through APTuning. Curious if this is the most recent version.


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

I've been trying to purchase UM tune for my 1.8t , what i'm looking for is to purchase the tune + ECU .

May ask for contact Email to get this going .

thank you in advance 

Note: i tried emailing the both UM sites yet no reply


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

ModsTTand said:


> I've been trying to purchase UM tune for my 1.8t , what i'm looking for is to purchase the tune + ECU .
> 
> May ask for contact Email to get this going .
> 
> ...





Hit up Jeff on vortex

http://forums.vwvortex.com/member.php?33236-Jefnes3

Also look here for me info
http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisplay.php?27-1-8T-Engine-Forum


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

Nevaeh_Speed said:


> Hit up Jeff on vortex
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/member.php?33236-Jefnes3
> 
> ...



gratitude :beer:


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## Abdeel (Dec 30, 2015)

*question about UM chip*

i bougth a eprom in bahn brenner/UM for 2.0 aba obd2 stage 1, but in bahn brenner need a* 3.5 bar fpr*, but in united motorsport web page description dont needed, its the same chip from UM??


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## Abdeel (Dec 30, 2015)

*UM question*

i bougth a eprom from bahn brenner aba obd2 stage1, but needs a *3.5 bar FPR*, #30 injectors, in the United Motorsport dont needed the 3.5 bar, its the same eprom from UM? 
someone have information about this


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

Dang, as old as this thread is, I am surprised I have not seen it before. I been running a C2 42 file for a while..but been kinda pushing the limits of it. Last run on the rollers I got 400 to the wheels. Few months later I lost some compression on 3 and 5 when I turned up the boost a bit. Gonna toss another bottom end in there and upgrade to upgrade fueling setup. After reading this..I am gonna go with the UM I think. Anyone else more current have anything to add on the UM vs C2 debate?


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## vdubxcrew (Jul 25, 2004)

The one thing C2 has going for them is they still sell OBD1 VR6 F/I chips, where UM doesn't want to. Jeff, if you are reading this, start selling OBD1 chips again. There are some of us who still need them.


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## InlinePerformance (Oct 25, 2008)

Well same guy did both tunes basically- so if their are problems um is more likely to have updated them . As far as c2 their customer support is better though rarely help out anyway. I have had three c2 chips go bad all with in the 2-3 year window, encryption boards crack/go bad. C2 has never warrantied them as two years is their limit. Um im not sure but their encryption boards seem to have more glued in them to keep vibrations down ;(


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

vdubxcrew said:


> The one thing C2 has going for them is they still sell OBD1 VR6 F/I chips, where UM doesn't want to. Jeff, if you are reading this, start selling OBD1 chips again. There are some of us who still need them.


The problem is you are working with a now 20yr old car. Often problems arise with the car that turns into countless hours trouble shooting because it "only happened after doing the tune". Obviously its pretty always something related to the setup or car/parts but it never works out that way and I think he felt it just wasn't worth it anymore.


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## vdubxcrew (Jul 25, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> The problem is you are working with a now 20yr old car. Often problems arise with the car that turns into countless hours trouble shooting because it "only happened after doing the tune". Obviously its pretty always something related to the setup or car/parts but it never works out that way and I think he felt it just wasn't worth it anymore.


Not to argue but that's a poor excuse. Cars that are less than ten years old can have more/same problems. Chip tuners have to deal with problems and provide customer service...bottom line. Having confidence in the product you sell and communicating the importance of making sure the customers car is tuned up and in proper shape to accept modifications is the key.


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## noskeh (Mar 11, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> The problem is you are working with a now 20yr old car. Often problems arise with the car that turns into countless hours trouble shooting because it "only happened after doing the tune". Obviously its pretty always something related to the setup or car/parts but it never works out that way and I think he felt it just wasn't worth it anymore.





vdubxcrew said:


> Not to argue but that's a poor excuse. Cars that are less than ten years old can have more/same problems. Chip tuners have to deal with problems and provide customer service...bottom line. Having confidence in the product you sell and communicating the importance of making sure the customers car is tuned up and in proper shape to accept modifications is the key.


I agree with both of you here, I don't have an OBDI setup but I do run UM 440 file and I like it for the most part. I visit a shop local to me and spend some time there and honestly I hardly see any mk3 or mk4 go in for tunes...if the OBDI file has issues like stated why even bother with the headache of all the support for a few hundred bucks. I see countless new cars coming in for flashes like the shop is handing out free energy drinks only at $500+ a flash! Like any other business UM is out to make money and providing a product on a 20year old car that he probably doesn't feel comfortable about just isn't a smart business decision.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

vdubxcrew said:


> Not to argue but that's a poor excuse. Cars that are less than ten years old can have more/same problems. Chip tuners have to deal with problems and provide customer service...bottom line. Having confidence in the product you sell and communicating the importance of making sure the customers car is tuned up and in proper shape to accept modifications is the key.


Its not really an excuse though and tend to agree with UM on this. Its a somewhat primitive engine management system and its hard to diagnose wear and tear type problems, especially when compounded with that level of modifications. Short of complete failure of an electrical component/sensor obd1 does very little to help that. 

I agree all cars can have problems but also have to keep in mind that most who get into this type of upgrade often don't have the means or ability to diagnose it. I know that doesn't apply to everyone but when it happens to that type of person the end result often is just bashing of the software/tuner when it typically isn't the fault of them. 

Trust me it does suck to an extent as I have lost some sales over not supporting it anymore but they did sell the software for some time and obviously worked but it gets to a point where its not practical to bother selling and supporting it anymore versus taking away from new development.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

noskeh said:


> I agree with both of you here, I don't have an OBDI setup but I do run UM 440 file and I like it for the most part. I visit a shop local to me and spend some time there and honestly I hardly see any mk3 or mk4 go in for tunes...if the OBDI file has issues like stated why even bother with the headache of all the support for a few hundred bucks. I see countless new cars coming in for flashes like the shop is handing out free energy drinks only at $500+ a flash! Like any other business UM is out to make money and providing a product on a 20year old car that he probably doesn't feel comfortable about just isn't a smart business decision.


Worded very well. To use a specific example, a couple years ago I had a customer that we went back an forth with for months on an obd1 turbo tune. Customer did the install him self and to throw another wrench into the mix like most turbo upgrades everything was done at once mechanically(rather then already being turbo and just changing software) so we spent countless hours trying to check his measurements of sensors, some vag com info, tons of pictures trying to make sure everything was routed and plumbed properly, on and on. 

Long story short it turned out one of the pins/wires in the engine harness plug on the side of the head was corroded. When looking at the male and female of the plug everything looked fine, it wasn't until finally pin testing the entire harness he finally found where the wire was crimped on the pin was only held on with like 2 strands. It cause an intermittent coolant temp reading causing the car to run rich. It never presented an issue stock but once it was running 440cc injectors it was clearly an issue. The worst part is that obd1 wasn't advanced enough to pin point the problem. 

But anyway the point being the customer kept blaming the software and after a ton of time spent found out it wasn't. Obviously thats an extreme example but he kind of issues more prevalent as they get that much older. In the end we def lost money on that deal and kills the practicality of selling the obd1 tunes.


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## Jumbopvp (May 1, 2010)

*Changing over from C2 to UM*

Question?

I am currently running C2 stage 1 on my s/c vr6 12v 36lb injectors. I heard UM's tune is better and i would love to make that change. I want the stage 2 tune from UM which suggests the #42 injectors. Can the stage 2 run with 36#? I heard someone's s/c vr6 runs fine with the setup. Please advice.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^doubtful


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

The 36# tune is out there on the internet... find it and tune the car yourself.


-Jeffrey Atwood


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## 2200 (Jun 12, 2013)

Hi
I also need obd1 turbo tune for the 258AF ecu.

I have 630cc injectors, 95mm maf, GT35 Turbo.

I will also pay for it, please.

Sent me pm if some want to help me.

'Many thanks 

Regards


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