# ITB's on SDS?



## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

Is anyone running ITB's on SDS EFI? If so I was wondering about your setup. How are you reading engine load? TPS? Running MAP sensor? If so how did you set it up? Any pics would be helpful.........Thanks


_Modified by fortwnek at 2:39 PM 3-16-2010_


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## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (fortwnek)*

No one??????????


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (fortwnek)*

Two or three years ago, I read though reams and reams of SDS literature, I don't how much has changed in the intervening years but at that time, SDS was recommending against using ITBs with their systems.


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## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (ABA Scirocco)*

Ya I've probably read a lot of the same stuff you have. But I have these components laying around and was wondering if anyone out there had gone through the pain of figuring it out and if so maybe they could give me some insight.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (fortwnek)*

I can't help with any specifics but the principles of tuning are the same regardless of the system being used so it might be worth a trip over to http://www.msefi.com to see what the issues specifically involved with tuning ITBs are and how the MS guys dealt with them. Perhaps much of what they've done can be applied to SDS systems as well. Good luck.


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## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (ABA Scirocco)*

I'll give it a look, thanks.......


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (fortwnek)*

hit me up. i have done itb's on sds...


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## kevinmacd (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (soch naungayan)*

my vr6 ITB's ran on SDS what questions did you have?


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## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (kevinmacd)*

I was wondering how you guys set up the MAP sensor? According to SDS you can run their system w/o MAP using only the TPS to sense engine load but they don't recommend it. Any help/pics would be appreciated.


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## kevinmacd (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (fortwnek)*

I ran tps only,
I didnt have enough vacuum for a map sensor!


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## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: ITB's on SDS? (kevinmacd)*

And how did it run on just TPS? Were you happy with the way the system functioned, drivability of the car, ect.? Was it a daily or a race car?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

I use tps only on most ITB'd cars. Don't let that scare you away.


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## kevinmacd (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

i was very happy with how it performed
it was not daily driven, maybe 5 k miles over 2 summers never gave me any problems!


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## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

Was your's also only sensing load through the TPS?


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (fortwnek)*

i ran mine 1 bar map...still easy to tune with a wideband...
but i always had the intention to go boost.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

I would only plan to use MAP for load if the tb's are on the small side, and it has small or stock cams.


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## kevinmacd (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

yes mine was using tps only to sense load!


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## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (kevinmacd)*

Cool, thanks guys.........


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## sebastian kach (Feb 18, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (fortwnek)*

I built a 2.2 16V with TWM throttles and ran it on SDS. SDS is really Simple like they say. You can run a TPS and MAP sensor. In fact the TWM throttles came with the TPS and I just got the correct GM MAP sensor for a NA engine. TWM throttles have a vacuum port on the end of the throttles that you can make a cover with a port to get an even vacuum signal. I ran this to a vacuum resivior for an even signal and then to the brake booster and MAP sensor. The car ran great and idled just fine.


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## fortwnek (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (sebastian kach)*

@sebastian kach
What size cams were you running on the 2.2l? Do you have any pic of your set up, just curious?




_Modified by fortwnek at 12:15 PM 3-26-2010_


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## sebastian kach (Feb 18, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (fortwnek)*

279/268 Kent cams. I don't have any pics. It was a customers car though so it had to run right before we could deliver it to the customer. The only thing that was never installed and maybe should have was an ISV just to help it idle on cold start. After it warmed up though, it idled like a champ.


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## kevinmacd (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (sebastian kach)*

what sort of vacuum was it pulling with those cams?
my vr6 with 288's and a Big valve head didnt have enough vacuum for MAP


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## sebastian kach (Feb 18, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (kevinmacd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevinmacd* »_what sort of vacuum was it pulling with those cams?
my vr6 with 288's and a Big valve head didnt have enough vacuum for MAP
Not sure. I never measured it. With the TWM's vacuum ports built in and them plumbed into a res tank, it produced a consistent vacuum that the MAP sensor could use reliably. Your engine had to produce some sort of vacuum, most likely. If you use the res tank and the check valve like on the brake booster, it will just continue to build vacuum.
Are 288's out of the norm for a modded VR?


_Modified by sebastian kach at 6:42 PM 3-26-2010_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

My car idled at 65kpa with 288's and 10.5:1 comp on a single throttle body. It worked on MAP, but with ITB's there wouldn't be enough range to get it to work well. 
Sure you can get a vac signal out, but the limited range, as well as how the map range interacts with 'real' load will push you into tuning it TPS only.


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## sebastian kach (Feb 18, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_My car idled at 65kpa with 288's and 10.5:1 comp on a single throttle body. It worked on MAP, but with ITB's there wouldn't be enough range to get it to work well. 
Sure you can get a vac signal out, but the limited range, as well as how the map range interacts with 'real' load will push you into tuning it TPS only.
I don't remember having to tune it by TPS only. In fact I dont remember much but just tuning it by the wideband. But since you mentioned 65kpa, that seems earily familiar on this 2.2. So I guess the question is, "Is there a EFI that's better suited to throttles and being tuned better with the MAP and TPS?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Sure you can tune it, and make it run relatively well. However, there will be times when your afr will be off. It's easy to miss, especially if you're not datalogging and just tuning realtime looking at a gauge.
Anything with an adjustable window for the MAP reading will help. Most of the cars that have throttle bodies will get a better tune on TPS. The only ITB'd car that I did a MAP tune that I liked had 42mm throttles and stock cams.


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## sebastian kach (Feb 18, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Sure you can tune it, and make it run relatively well. However, there will be times when your afr will be off. It's easy to miss, especially if you're not datalogging and just tuning realtime looking at a gauge.
Anything with an adjustable window for the MAP reading will help. Most of the cars that have throttle bodies will get a better tune on TPS. The only ITB'd car that I did a MAP tune that I liked had 42mm throttles and stock cams.
I rememeber the AFR was off a little at times. To the rich side. ven still we were able to get the car to run well. Very driveable and really fast. It had 45mm TWM's


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