# Calling TTs with Stand Alone set ups



## ManOfManyGTs (Dec 11, 2007)

So I'll be doing a megasquirt ECM set up project soon and I was just wondering who is running stand alone ECUs (if any, lol). I'm curious to see what all set ups are out there. Full stand alone or piggy back? For the full stand alones, how are ya'll running the haldex and other issues that might come with eliminating the stock ECU? Any issues, notes, suggestions, hints, advice? Thanks.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

Get Maestro, for $900 you have full stand alone capabilities but will pass readiness and if you sell the car then you can return it to stock. Haldex and standalone is a PITA. 

Bosch ME7 Ecu's are far more advanced than any MS setup and with being able to have knock control its the only way to go. 

Maestro has the feature of launch control, no lift shift and such. And that is with just 30 mins of work opposed to countless hours of wiring and trouble shooting.


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## ManOfManyGTs (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm going stand alone for the fun of the project and the full capability. Maestro is neat but there are serious limitations to using the stock ECU.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

ManOfManyGTs said:


> I'm going stand alone for the fun of the project and the full capability. Maestro is neat but there are serious limitations to using the stock ECU.



:facepalm:


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

DeckManDubs said:


> :facepalm:


:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

DeckManDubs said:


> :facepalm:


I once heard this man talking (I was sober, 10am) and he totally lost me talking about polymers, tunes and fluids. I'd trust/take his advice :thumbup:


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

DougLoBue said:


> I once heard this man talking (I was sober, 10am) and he totally lost me talking about polymers, tunes and fluids. I'd trust/take his advice :thumbup:



Man, it seems like everybody on this forum hangs out together. Anyone live in Oregon and want to lose me talking about tunes, fluids and maybe boost instead of polymers?? :laugh:


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

omerkm1 said:


> Man, it seems like everybody on this forum hangs out together. Anyone live in Oregon and want to lose me talking about tunes, fluids and maybe boost instead of polymers?? :laugh:


Come to H2O...and enjoy the ensuing insanity :laugh:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

ManOfManyGTs said:


> I'm going stand alone for the fun of the project and the full capability. Maestro is neat but there are serious limitations to using the stock ECU.


So what are those limitations? I'd love to hear this.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

20v master said:


> So what are those limitations? I'd love to hear this.


I'd love to hear them too, besides the high price tag maestro is great. It seems to give access to pretty much everything that is needed and more. All of the issues people have with it is because they are clueless to what effect, the changes to most table, have to the state of their tune.


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## ManOfManyGTs (Dec 11, 2007)

It seems like I offended some people, lol. Sorry if I did. My TT is my toy and I'm doing stand alone because I like the challenge that it brings. I don't know a huge amount about tuning but I definatly will after building my own megasquirt. I also like the fact that it seems that not very many people go this route. 

As for some of the the limitations: stand alone has no MAF limits, DBC TB, wideband o2. Also, it seems that I would always be fighting with the stock ECU since there is so much going on. The stock ECU is made to run a certain way and do certain things. When the ECU doesn't like something it adjusts for safety/etc and it doesn't seem right to just go in with Maestro and "turn it off." It seems like I'd always be battling with trying to get the ECU to do something it was not made to do. The stock ECU may pull timing, close the TB etc for trivial reasons. Also from what I understand Maestro uses logs and the engine has to be off to make programing changes(?) With stand alone, I can have full, true tuning ability and control of the engine for both ignition timing and fueling with the ability to make quick changes in REAL time. I've talked in depth with the guys at a local shop (GMP) who have been battling tuning their S3 race car with Maestro for over a year and have spent well over the price of the software to try and get it running the way they want. And they are not the only shop that recommends stand alone over Maestro.

Again, I have nothing against Maestro. It sounds like a great program and I'm sure you guys have had lots of success with it. I just don't trust the stock ECU, and I like to tinker.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

I don't think you've offended anyone, we were just curious as to why you think a megasquirt would be better than using maestro. 

You think that anyone having problems to get a car running right with maestro is gonna have less trouble with a stand alone? 
Beside the wiring nightmares of MS you still have to tune everything just like stock ecu+maestro but have to start from scratch instead of modifying preexisting tables. I understand that you want to tackle a project but a stand alone is not going to do a better job than the stock ecu.

I have a Saturn race car on megasquirt and the slight change in weather requires almost an entire new tune to run right or even start. The lack of adaptation is to me more of a limitation on a stand alone engine management if anything. 

Modern advanced ecu like the one in the TT are real marvels and having access to make changes to their existing maps is the way to go. In a situation like my OBD 1 Saturn where nothing else is available, I can understand but otherwise listen to the ones who have experience with both and don't believe the hype.

The only limitation I see in a program like maestro(ran into it tuning my evo using ecuflash) is scaling of the tables when you have extreme setups. The ecu tables have a certain amount of columns that if your car need to more to run right you have to re-scale by giving up resolution at lower loads.


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

Sometimes it seems like there are almost too many solutions to the problem of going faster. The back and forth about this is better than that is hysterical over at the golfmk6 forum. I always figured you went with what you knew or what the shop you trusted recommended? I do have to admit that all the tuners out there writing code spend a lot of time figuring out what works and what doesnt. Has anyone tried making the AEM standalone set up work with a VAG car? Then again, all this seems like a lot of :banghead: at times....


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

omerkm1 said:


> Has anyone tried making the AEM standalone set up work with a VAG car? Then again, all this seems like a lot of :banghead: at times....


Had all sorts of issues trying to use an AEM.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

ManOfManyGTs said:


> It seems like I offended some people, lol. Sorry if I did. My TT is my toy and I'm doing stand alone because I like the challenge that it brings. I don't know a huge amount about tuning but I definatly will after building my own megasquirt. I also like the fact that it seems that not very many people go this route.
> 
> As for some of the the limitations: stand alone has no MAF limits, DBC TB, wideband o2. Also, it seems that I would always be fighting with the stock ECU since there is so much going on. The stock ECU is made to run a certain way and do certain things. When the ECU doesn't like something it adjusts for safety/etc and it doesn't seem right to just go in with Maestro and "turn it off." It seems like I'd always be battling with trying to get the ECU to do something it was not made to do. The stock ECU may pull timing, close the TB etc for trivial reasons. Also from what I understand Maestro uses logs and the engine has to be off to make programing changes(?) With stand alone, I can have full, true tuning ability and control of the engine for both ignition timing and fueling with the ability to make quick changes in REAL time. I've talked in depth with the guys at a local shop (GMP) who have been battling tuning their S3 race car with Maestro for over a year and have spent well over the price of the software to try and get it running the way they want. And they are not the only shop that recommends stand alone over Maestro.
> 
> Again, I have nothing against Maestro. It sounds like a great program and I'm sure you guys have had lots of success with it. I just don't trust the stock ECU, and I like to tinker.


Each to his/her own. Problems I see:

1. With MS installed it will pretty much eliminate buying pool if you ever decide to move onto something else.
2. Haldex and standalone dont mix well. There are some that have done it, but the costs are substantial. 
3. Non-OBD compliant

What are your overall goals with the car? For the average out of your box tuner Maestro does everything you really need. 

I have been running Maestro for 40k now without a problem. Its all I could ask for when it comes to "bang for your buck" tuning software. Now if we were talking about something like a ME3 or ME5 ecu...stand alone is the only way to go.


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

I am going to start a Maestro thread where all of you Eurodyne experts can share some experiences. I dont want to go off the OP here any more. There are some questions I hope can be answered.


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## ManOfManyGTs (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the input everyone. It will be an adventure. I'll keep ya'll posted when I start this endeavor.


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## Mantvis (Jan 1, 2010)

what in the world is stand alone ?


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

Mantvis said:


> what in the world is stand alone ?


It's when it come to solve a problem or when you face something you can't seem to figure out...you stand alone lol


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

megasquirt sucks


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## omerkm1 (Feb 23, 2010)

Volksdude27 said:


> It's when it come to solve a problem or when you face something you can't seem to figure out...you stand alone lol



now now.... any questions he asked would be answer with a equal amount of ridicule and dis-belief. :banghead:


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

> now now.... any questions he asked would be answer with a equal amount of ridicule and dis-belief. :banghead:


just wanted to add a little joke around some personnal experience that's all, I highly respect the OP for taking that route and hope for him he'll have a great setup afterward, just like I did on my own back in the days with SDS and my turbo GTI


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