# First track days with TTRS - what a great car!



## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

I took the TT-RS out to the track for the first time last weekend. What a blast! Here are a few random thoughts. Right now, the car is totally stock.

Engine - this thing pulls hard! It will keep up with a Mustang Boss 302 or a Corvette in the long straights. The power band is huge! Anywhere from 2k rpm to redline has great acceleration.

Brakes - never had an issue. I could out-brake many of the other cars out there. Not a hint of brake fade, even with one hard braking zone each lap, from about 120mph to 45mph. 

Clutch, transmission - no issues with the ultra-light clutch. The shifter could have a bit shorter throw, but it's not bad. Gearing seems fine - with the flat torque curve, third gear could be used for all but the fastest parts of the track. Even a couple slow, 2nd gear corners could be taken in third with only a little loss of exit speed.

Steering - with 'sport' mode on and at speed, the steering is fine. Not the feedback of a 911, but very good none-the-less. I love the steering wheel!

Suspension - again, 'sport' mode activated. Handles great, very little body roll, stable in the corners. In fact, it will keep up with the Miatas in the corners. Just a hint of understeer at the limit, otherwise relatively neutral.

Seats - not bad for a dual-purpose car (DD with a few track days a month). Lateral support is OK. Could use better seats if it were a dedicated track car. Too bad the DOT won't allow the Euro seats here! I may have to start calling junk yards in Europe to find a pair.

Exhaust - the quiet exhaust note is magnified at the track. At 120mph with the windows down and a performance exhaust on the car next to you, it's hard to hear the exhaust. Need to rely more on the tach than the sound as far as when to shift. Again, not bad for a dual-purpose car. And I'd hate to modify the exhaust and lose some of the torque!

I am really glad I had the entire front end wrapped in clear bra - made cleaning the rubber streaks off easy. One problem area - the rear fender right behind the tire. It curves inward and lies right behind the rear tire. Gets lots of rubber streaks. For those of you where they put sand or salt on the winter roads, you will likely get a bunch of paint chips on that rear fender. Probably worth some protection for that area.

Now I'm even more anxious for APR to get their ECU flash done - this thing will be a beast with just a simple tune!

Also need to track down a second set of wheels. With some R-comp tires. Any suggestions would be appreciated - maybe a 19 x 9.5 or an 18 x 9.5 that would clear the front brakes. Not sure if 19 x 10 or 18 x 10 would fit.

Edited to add:
Tires - I almost forgot! The Toyo tires were fine. Like any street tire, they got a bit greasy near the end of a 20 minute track session. Otherwise, no issues. Of course, it was 105 in the shade over the weekend which didn't help any.


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## OC=OrangeCrush (Jan 26, 2011)

Awesome! Sounds like you had some fun! Oh and Suzuka gray, I was just at the dealership sitting in a Suzuka gray TTRS this past weekend and I can't say enough on how much I love that color! Good choice! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

Great post. 

What were you using for brake fluid? Stock stuff? I'm assuming at this point that RBF600 would probably work on these cars.

Looks like 18's are the smallest you can go w/these dinner plate. That's going to make R-comps a "bit" pricey.

Other silly question can you full kill the ESP?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Nice. How does the steering change in sport mode?


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## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Great post.
> 
> What were you using for brake fluid? Stock stuff? I'm assuming at this point that RBF600 would probably work on these cars.
> 
> ...


Yes - stock brake fluid for now.

You can turn the ESP off, but I'm not sure how 'off' it is. I know with Porsche it will still kick in if you get too stupid. I didn't get crazy the first time out, so I don't know how much is really deactivated. It did not interfere in any way, so I can't complain.

I'm hoping I can find an 18" wheel that will fit - more tire choices and a bit cheaper than the 19" tires.


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## SKNKWRX (Sep 27, 1999)

Forge I believe it running 18X10 on their TTS....not sure how much more clearance the TTRS brakes might need but you could contact Sean Lyle hes very helpful. Nice write up.


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

Dr Bill, what did you end up running for tire pressure? I may be doing one soon and it would be nice to go in with a baseline.
Gotta comment on a couple of your comments too:
Tires-so far I like the Toyo's too. Anything on the street has been fine and apparently from your experience they are at least decent for tougher duty. There have been so many disparaging remarks about them here even from people who don't have their cars yet.:screwy:
ESP: I am far from a track junkie. A fair amount of my experience was from back in the days when traction control wasn't so common. I did do two track days in my Cayman S a couple years ago. It was a beginner type clinic so we were told to leave our traction control fully activated, and guess what? Mine never kicked in, at least at the 7/10ths speeds I was going. Instructors kept emphasizing smoothness and it worked. I haven't had the ESP kill the fun yet on my TT-RS road outings, so I'm guessing its limits are pretty high too like the Porsches.


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## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

mtbscoTT said:


> Dr Bill, what did you end up running for tire pressure? I may be doing one soon and it would be nice to go in with a baseline.
> .


I'm certainly no expert - just a solid intermediate driver.

I ended up with 36psi front and rear (hot). That was 30/32 cold when I checked them later. Didn't play around with tire pressure that much. No temperature measurements, etc. From looking at the tire and the tread, the pressures were OK. Didn't get any evidence of wear on the sidewall, but right up to the edge of the tread.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Dr. Bill said:


> I'm certainly no expert - just a solid intermediate driver.
> 
> I ended up with 36psi front and rear (hot). That was 32/32 cold when I checked them later. Didn't play around with tire pressure that much. No temperature measurements, etc. From looking at the tire and the tread, the pressures were OK. Didn't get any evidence of wear on the sidewall, but right up to the edge of the tread.


Did you try any runs with and without the "Sport" mode enabled to note the differences? If so, would you mind describing how the car behaved between the two settings (steering as well)? Thanks.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

I believe there are 3 settings on the ESP...On, Off and Disabled. "Off" is when you just push the button...this simply raises the point of intervention and does not actually turn it off. To fully disable it, you push and hold the button for something like 3-5 seconds. I'm pretty sure that it is but I'll check the manual to verify.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

Yep, just verified this...there are 3 settings...On, Sport and Off. Same description as above just different naming. Sport raises the limits but leaves it active. Press and hold for 3 seconds turns it off entirely.


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

Black BeauTTy said:


> Yep, just verified this...there are 3 settings...On, Sport and Off. Same description as above just different naming. Sport raises the limits but leaves it active. Press and hold for 3 seconds turns it off entirely.


 
Cool.. thanks for verifying that. Much appreciated!!


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Keep in mind that ESP automatically re-enables itself if you trigger ABS. So even if you press and hold for 3-5 seconds it can turn itself back on. Keep practicing your threshold braking


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## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

Marty said:


> Did you try any runs with and without the "Sport" mode enabled to note the differences? If so, would you mind describing how the car behaved between the two settings (steering as well)? Thanks.


No, only with sport mode on. Maybe next time - see how the suspension varies.


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## joshsmith (Apr 17, 2011)

Awesome write up mate! Looking forward to many more!

Any track photos/videos??

Try running tyres at 40 psi - I run mine at 40 for road use even and it makes a huge difference in the way it drives - I think you'll be very surprised!


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## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

No video. Here's one photo:


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## joshsmith (Apr 17, 2011)

Dr. Bill said:


> No video. Here's one photo:


Beast!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Riz1 (Aug 11, 2011)

Good review of TT RS on track. Mine is about a month away in the same color combo.


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

joshsmith said:


> Awesome write up mate! Looking forward to many more!
> 
> Any track photos/videos??
> 
> Try running tyres at 40 psi - I run mine at 40 for road use even and it makes a huge difference in the way it drives - I think you'll be very surprised!


 
Whoa.. that sounds WAY too high if that's cold temp. Suggest is to see where you're at in terms of rolling on the sidewall before running that high.

For example on my R32(I know different beast) I run like 33/35psi front/back w/street tires when I used to run those. For r-comps much lower. I think these cars all come w/Toyo T1-S which have a pretty stiff sidewall so I'd try something a little lower for psi and if you have to work up as required.


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## joshsmith (Apr 17, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Whoa.. that sounds WAY too high if that's cold temp. Suggest is to see where you're at in terms of rolling on the sidewall before running that high.
> 
> For example on my R32(I know different beast) I run like 33/35psi front/back w/street tires when I used to run those. For r-comps much lower. I think these cars all come w/Toyo T1-S which have a pretty stiff sidewall so I'd try something a little lower for psi and if you have to work up as required.


Interesting.. I've got 2 R32's and run them both at 40psi - it handles a lot better and is a lot more agile! 

Give it a go, if anything I've gotten even better and more even tyre wear.


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

joshsmith said:


> Interesting.. I've got 2 R32's and run them both at 40psi - it handles a lot better and is a lot more agile!
> 
> Give it a go, if anything I've gotten even better and more even tyre wear.


Depends on the tire, but that's way too high even for a R32. Sure would make the car feel light, but ultimate grip.. ehhh.. not so much. It makes for some great howling of the tires however.  I could see running Goodyear F1's that high b/c of the marshmellow sidewalls, otherwise it's just increasing how light the steering is vs. actual grip.

On a r-comp like a RA1 I run those pretty low around 30/32psi, but keep in mind the sidwalls are incredibly solid. On my R32 as I mentioned I run 33/35psi and don't roll the sidewall and get perfect wear on them.


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

I've been dabbling in autocross and track days for a long time, also roadraced motorcycles for 20 years. I think old school thinking, and probably tire technology of the time, was to pump up the pressure. High pressure does make things feel responsive as David noted, but low pressure keeps the rubber on the ground. I think tire technology especially sidewall strength has improved many times over, so in general the lowest pressure you can run without sidewall rollover is the best traction.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

mtbscoTT said:


> I've been dabbling in autocross and track days for a long time, also roadraced motorcycles for 20 years. I think old school thinking, and probably tire technology of the time, was to pump up the pressure. High pressure does make things feel responsive as David noted, but low pressure keeps the rubber on the ground. I think tire technology especially sidewall strength has improved many times over, so in general the lowest pressure you can run without sidewall rollover is the best traction.


My understanding was that low pressures would also lead to overheating. So, there is a balance. I believe I was running around 32psi on the TTS...maybe 34 in the rears, getting to around 40-42psi when hot. IIRC, the Hankooks seemed better at a higher pressure than the Conti's that came standard.

I would think R-compounds are a different story. Never ran them on the TTS.


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

DrDomm said:


> My understanding was that low pressures would also lead to overheating. So, there is a balance. I believe I was running around 32psi on the TTS...maybe 34 in the rears, getting to around 40-42psi when hot. IIRC, the Hankooks seemed better at a higher pressure than the Conti's that came standard.
> 
> I would think R-compounds are a different story. Never ran them on the TTS.


In some case yes, if you're running way too low of pressure you can overwork the tire, but the same can be said of a cold starting pressure of 40psi. I think hot when I used to run street tires on track I'd still be right below 40psi by the end of the session. That's even a bit too high for hot temps.

I mainly run Bridgestones that have a pretty beefy sidewall and then RA1's for the track which I think have bulletproof/armoured sidewalls they are so firm hence me running lower psi's on those. The RA1's I guess like that lower psi and wow.. the grip is amazing even at the end of a 8-9/10ths run.

General recommendation is to see where you are on rolling the sidewall. There are traditionally little arrows on the tread and normally you want to be at that for wear when the car leans over. On the RA1's at least you can get away w/going past that, but for a street tire you generally want to be right on that little triangle/arrow and not much over it which would indicate too low of a pressue.


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## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> General recommendation is to see where you are on rolling the sidewall. There are traditionally little arrows on the tread and normally you want to be at that for wear when the car leans over. On the RA1's at least you can get away w/going past that, but for a street tire you generally want to be right on that little triangle/arrow and not much over it which would indicate too low of a pressue.


Exactly. Of course, the absolute best way is to measure the temperatures of each tire - inside, middle, and outside of the contact surface. But this must be done almost immediately as they cool fast. You need to pull into the pits and have a couple people check the temps for you. Looking at the tire is the next best thing and much easier.


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## TT--AUDI--S4 (May 11, 2004)

*Great Review*

Great review of the RS on track, very real and believable.

Thanks for taking the time to write about it.

As for the euro seats, how bout a GB?

I'd be in! :thumbup:


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

Great review from OP on track - mirrors my experience with the only difference being I have tinkered with the car and made a number of changes which were post several trackdays. 

Interesting comments from others ref tyre PSI...Ultimately I settled on 30 fr and 26 re cold temps...this is optimum for me...anything else leads to unsafe handling...am running PS2 all round...I guess PSI is very much a personal thing. 

BTW, when I ran higher on fronts especially, car just 'bounced' around unsafely...anything lower than noted above and car wonderes unsafely too.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

996cab said:


> Great review from OP on track - mirrors my experience with the only difference being I have tinkered with the car and made a number of changes which were post several trackdays.
> 
> Interesting comments from others ref tyre PSI...Ultimately I settled on 30 fr and 26 re cold temps...this is optimum for me...anything else leads to unsafe handling...am running PS2 all round...I guess PSI is very much a personal thing.
> 
> BTW, when I ran higher on fronts especially, car just 'bounced' around unsafely...anything lower than noted above and car wonderes unsafely too.


 That's pretty interesting. Those are some pretty low pressures. A lot of it depends on the track surface as well. The Nordschleife, for example, is very uneven and has a lot of patched up areas. Cars with a softer tire/suspension setup tend to fare better than stiffer ones. But Hockenheimring is very flat and smooth and a stiffer setup is better. I'm planning on making some trips to the UK next summer once I've got my car. I want to try Silverstone and maybe Hethel, if possible. 

I still haven't decided on which tires I want to run next year. Hopefully someone will do a comparison between the Pilot Super Sports and the stickier tires a la RE-11's, Direzza's, etc. 

EDIT: Nevermind. I found my answer: 

don't expect the Pilot Super Sport to out perform the RE11, AD08 or the R-S3 in the dry. It is, simply put, not that kind of tire. It will be as good, if not slightly better than some of the extreme performance category tires in the wet. It will last longer. It will offer significantly better ride quality and lower road noise. It is lighter than most other tires which can be a performance advantage. It is not and was not designed to be all about dry performance like those others mentioned 
__________________ 
Luke Pavlick 
Performance Specialist 
ASE Certified Master Tech 
800-428-8355 ext. 362 
www.tirerack.com 


I'll probably go with the RE-11's again. I loved them on the track last year in a 225 width. They'll be pretty amazing at 255+. 

- Jeremy -


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## Riz1 (Aug 11, 2011)

*ttrs on track with 1M*

Found this video of TT RS and BMW 1M 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ej5rfpuU4q4


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

Riz1 said:


> Found this video of TT RS and BMW 1M
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ej5rfpuU4q4


 Good video. He's a bit of an ******* on the track with the honking, but he's Italian, so I'll let it slide.  

Quite a bit of traffic that day. I would've gone but my son was just born a few days earlier, so my friends went without me instead. Jerks! They only open up the GP track a few times per year like that. It's definitely worth going, but it's usually pretty packed. 

Check out the lap timer he has running on the Navi display. That's not stock, is it? And he mentions only having 4mm left on the front pads after 22 laps. That doesn't bode well for me... I might be buying a lot of extra pads. 

- Jeremy -


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 1999)

- Jeremy - said:


> Check out the lap timer he has running on the Navi display. That's not stock, is it? And he mentions only having 4mm left on the front pads after 22 laps. That doesn't bode well for me... I might be buying a lot of extra pads.
> 
> - Jeremy -


 I'd definitely suggest a set of dedicated track rat pads(higher temps) so you can save the street ones for well.. the street. It's worth swapping those things out.

I'd be curious to see this car w/a set of Hawk DTC's on there. Great race/track pad.


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

- Jeremy - said:


> That's pretty interesting. Those are some pretty low pressures. A lot of it depends on the track surface as well. The Nordschleife, for example, is very uneven and has a lot of patched up areas. Cars with a softer tire/suspension setup tend to fare better than stiffer ones. But Hockenheimring is very flat and smooth and a stiffer setup is better. I'm planning on making some trips to the UK next summer once I've got my car. I want to try Silverstone and maybe Hethel, if possible.
> 
> I still haven't decided on which tires I want to run next year. Hopefully someone will do a comparison between the Pilot Super Sports and the stickier tires a la RE-11's, Direzza's, etc.
> 
> ...


Yep, my tyre PSI are low - keep in mind I drive a Roadster and it is heavier...I may try higher PSI again on next trackday to see what is what. 

Interesting ref tyres...I have a set of PSS which were going to go on however after much research I may opt for RE-11...the only thing that is affecting that decison is tyre & weight rating being lower than the PSS / PS2 that I have... 

AD08 are supposedly useless in the wet so am staying away... 

RS-3...now I did not look at those and will do some research on them. 

Am trying to negate a two tyre solution for convinience...firtunately am currently on PS2 and whatever I go for they ought to be 'better' that it..."he says...!"


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## mageus (Sep 1, 2004)

Bill, thanx for the wonderful write up! I missed my track weekend last month, so you beat me to it. Hopefully I'm going this weekend. Some questions, if you please: 

- Where did you run? How many sessions? 
- Were there any braking issues during later runs? How much time between runs to cool down? 
- So the Toyo's hold out for multiple sessions? I think tire pressure will be the key if one wants to keep the stock tires. 
- Shifter - I agree the longitudinal throw is a little long, but the lateral throw is nice and short. 
- Seats - bad enough to need to swap them out for the track? I'm gonna try out my 4-point Schroth this weekend. 
- How was the oil temp? I think there is an aux oil cooler in the TTRS. If the temps are high I was thinking of the hood gasket mod. 

From the euro forums it sounds like brakes are the biggest issue. The track I run has a couple high speed transitions that work the brakes hard. I'm gonna see how it goes. Sounds like the only current race fitment pads are the Pagids which are spendy.


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