# Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA?



## chris24g (Jan 12, 2000)

My head is spinning trying to assimilate all the 20/20 info on the vortex. Let's get it all in one place! Be as specific as possible and if you know the cost, even better. 
Starting from the top:
Intake
-------
<add your ingredient or option or mod here>

Head
-------
20v head (but which one and why? AEB ADR or is there another?) $300+
Plug 5 oil return holes on the exhaust side of head (with what?) $5?
<add your ingredient or option or mod here>
Pistons
--------
<add your ingredient or option or mod here>
Block
--------
2L ABA shortblock $250
Rods
--------
159mm 
<add your ingredient or option or mod here>

Crank
--------
92.8 mm 2L crank $125 (if bought separately)
<add your ingredient or option or mod here>

Oil (squirters, pan, pump)
--------
<add your ingredient or option or mod here>
Exhaust manifold (specify A1 A2 A3)
--------
<add your ingredient or option or mod here>


----------



## DubG60 (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (chris24g)*

Intake
-------
Depends on your use...I modified an AEB passat Manifold to clear my charger and run the original G60 TB. But had I not used a matching head (like a small port head) I would have needed a small port manifold. If your goin turbo...Get a good idea on what is gettin routed where. That will tell you where your BT needs to be and which Manifold you should use.

Head
-------
20v head (but which one and why? AEB ADR or is there another?) 
-AEB is a big port head...Many people will rty for this head for that reason. If you have any ideas on how to calculate port velocities and laminar/turbulent flows you can do some calcs based on the port sizes. Every other head is a small port head and all are the same short the change in intake cam from later 20v head (02 on I beleive) with hte larger duration OEM cam for a lil more mid range.
Plug 5 oil return holes on the exhaust side of head (with what?) $5?
Its actually 3 drains here...I used 5/8" grub screws from Ace Harware with an accompanying tap. When I was done I pounded the threads with a punch to make sure the tap wouldnt back out. But theyve held tight for 1500 miles...no leaks.
Pistons
--------
Up to you...mine are OEM in a 1.8L block.
Block
--------
2L ABA shortblock $250
OBD1...Oil squirters and forged crank...Need I say more???








Rods
--------
159mm 
Mod as you wish...

Crank
--------
92.8 mm 2L crank $125 (if bought separately)
FORGED for forced induction use. A MUST.

Oil (squirters, pan, pump)
--------
Depending on what your going with...
Distributor
-8v 2.0 IM shaft modded to fit a 16v/20v cam gear to match the cam gear and keep the dizzy spinnin at 1 to 1 with the cam. Youll need to get a 16v/20v crank sprocket to go with this. Use the 8v Oil pump (ABA would be preferable)
Coil packs
-16v 2.0 IM shaft and IM gear. 16v oil pump and pick-up. Dizzy block off and oil pump drive gear.
Exhaust manifold (specify A1 A2 A3)
--------
Turbo...Match it to your turbo. Supercharged or NA...AGN Euro NA ex manifold with an ABA downpipe. This will work for any A2/A3. The A1 will need the TT DP spacer for the ABA block swap and an A1 dual DP. 

Ummm...Im sure Ill remember more later. Ill add it in then


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (DubG60)*

Pretty good summary, DubG60. Curious, how did you address the distributor issue on your engine? I've set my 20v head onto my ABA block and crude measurements make it look VERY tight getting a distributor cap and wires underneath the 20v intake mani. Got me to thinking about a shorty dist cap(and the lack thereof in the marketplace)like the V8 guys can get.......


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (Andrew Stauffer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Andrew Stauffer* »_ I've set my 20v head onto my ABA block and crude measurements make it look VERY tight getting a distributor cap and wires underneath the 20v intake mani. Got me to thinking about a shorty dist cap(and the lack thereof in the marketplace)like the V8 guys can get.......
Use a 90* cap like from a Peugeot, FIAT, etc.


----------



## DubG60 (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (vwpat)*

Ooooh...Now I gotta go on the hunt to see if I can find ME one of these caps. Hahaa. What models did they come on?
I ended up using OEM 16v plug wires and a G60 cap. By the time I was done I had to grind 1/8" of the head down (not a big deal being that its only part of the support for the intake manifold and no where NEAR oil/water passages) They clear barely...But they clear. I could probly do a lil more clearancing and I may. But we'll see. I actually have it all appart rite now if ya'd like me to snap some pics.
*edit* I just noticed your using an ABA block. Im pretty sure the extra height comes in above the dizzy hole so you shouldnt have any clearance issues with the dizzy unless you run plug wires that do not have the 90* ends for the cap side.


_Modified by DubG60 at 3:04 PM 8-22-2003_


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (vwpat)*

VWPat, 
Is this a known way to fix the issue? I'm not doubting your word, it's golden in my book, just wondering if you're *sure* that works, or if it's a tentative suggestion? 
Dub, I was just contemplating the additional height of the ABA block and it's effect on clearance. Thanks for the thoughts......


_Modified by Andrew Stauffer at 7:48 PM 8-22-2003_


----------



## chris24g (Jan 12, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (DubG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubG60* »_Ooooh...Now I gotta go on the hunt to see if I can find ME one of these caps. 

Here ya go. Bosch part num is on the box.


----------



## DubG60 (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (chris24g)*

AMAZING...I luv you guys







Looks like Ill be orderin some goodies tomorrow eh? Thanks alot


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (Andrew Stauffer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Andrew Stauffer* »_VWPat, 
Is this a known way to fix the issue? I'm not doubting your word, it's golden in my book, just wondering if you're *sure* that works, or if it's a tentative suggestion? 
Dub, I was just contemplating the additional height of the ABA block and it's effect on clearance. Thanks for the thoughts......

_Modified by Andrew Stauffer at 7:48 PM 8-22-2003_
More of a solution for 16V dizzy with older, larger BB/MC combo but is what the Ford guys do when using Cosworth 16V head with a Pinto block that uses dizzy in block.


----------



## swingwing205 (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (vwpat)*

I think with all the expressed interest in this ABA 20v swap, the mods should make a special thread specifically for this hot topic.
Anyone care to 2nd the motion? I'm going to ask a mod tonight.....


----------



## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (swingwing205)*


_Quote, originally posted by *swingwing205* »_I think with all the expressed interest in this ABA 20v swap, the mods should make a special thread specifically for this hot topic.
Anyone care to 2nd the motion? I'm going to ask a mod tonight.....

I second that..
What exactly other than increased displacement do we stand to gain by doing this conversion with a turbo attached of course?
I currently have an ABA early shortblock and a TEC II sitting on the shelf so this has kind of sparked my interest.


----------



## seako_916 (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (DubG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubG60* »_
Pistons
--------
Up to you...mine are OEM in a 1.8L block.


do stock ABA pistons clear the valves on 20v head?(like a 16v head)or do they NEED to be cut?


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (seako_916)*

My thoughts(fwiw) on ABA pistons and 20v heads......
Dunno if they NEED to be cut, but I suspect they do. When I set my 20v head onto my ABA block, I didn't have a timing belt to make it all jive. The write up on the ABA 20v A4 would lead you to believe that you do need to cut the pistons but it doesn't prove the point. 
Interestingly, the stock 1.8t pistons are cut from the factory to create the clearance for that middle intake valve, a chunk taken right out of the front edge of the piston. It wouldn't be hard to duplicate with a set of ABA pistons, although there isn't quite as much "meat" on an ABA piston to cut into. They didn't start life as a boost friendly piece like the 1.8t units did. A DIY job could be done with a dremel tool, although it wouldn't cost much to have it done and end up with balanced work. 
But-and here's the catch- Nate Romero's all motor ABA 20v uses Ross flat tops at 11:1 with BIG cams. Piston/valve clearance must be at a minimum on his motor. If anyone in this world needs cut pistons, I'd guess it's him and from the pics on the Race101 site are not cut. 
I'd better go get a timing belt and retrace my steps on this.


----------



## DubG60 (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (Andrew Stauffer)*

I got a few things on this one...
1)The ABA most likely wouldnt need cut as the 3rd valve is only open on the down stroke of the piston. They wont be too close to the pistons at any point. This is probly why the race 101 20v has flat top pistons.
2)If you cut into ABA pistons, you may have a matching compression ratio...But VW designed the 20v pistons to push the air/fuel misture towards the center of the combustion chamber. They were designed to work with the head itself in order to run high compression and boost on pump gass. If you just cut into ABA pistons, you dont have this feature. And in not having it, you can cause detonation. I researched this for my motor and after going thru a bunch of the numbers, it was more beneficial to leave the OEM compression ratio and use stock pistons. Sadly Id have to say use cutsom pistons for this application. The Race 101 car can probably get around this in the fact that the compression is much higher, there is no boost adding to heat, and they use most likely 110 octane fuel. All of these very easily delay detonation (granted that they are within the timing ranges) to about 8500rpm or higher. But this is also a pure bred race motor and not a street engine.


----------



## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (DubG60)*

so wait there's got to be more then plugging holes on a AEG head, throwing down a new headgasket, throwing the head down and a 20v intake manifold on to make a 94 jetta's 2.0 a 20v
if my pistons clear i'd be using the stock pistons


----------



## DubG60 (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (purplejettahondaeater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *purplejettahondaeater* »_so wait there's got to be more then plugging holes on a AEG head, throwing down a new headgasket, throwing the head down and a 20v intake manifold on to make a 94 jetta's 2.0 a 20v

Nope















 Top of a PL block with AWW pistons and rods (I was waiting on rod bearings here)







Bottom of head (before cleaning...with plugged holes. Didnt wanna clean a head if I screwed it up







)







And the two chunks together using an OBD1 ABA head gasket and 20v headbolts (match em to the head...Theres a few different ones)


----------



## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (DubG60)*

what about engine management? stock ecu? if so for the 2.0 
this seems way too easy, like i could do it as a weekend project


----------



## wolfsbaum4 (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (purplejettahondaeater)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=985698 

_Quote »_also mentioned to me that they did a basic 20/20 swap to a buddies A1 by putting a stock 20v head on a stock 2.0 16v bottom end. Ran it on CIS injection, added a distributor to the motor, modified a TT 16v race header by welding a 20v flange onto it. So it was all stock parts, header excepted, and the thing put down 135whp. That's 150-155 crank hp with stock cams, stock head, CIS flapper plate in the way, etc. The car was rumored to be VERY torquey, which makes sense with those stock turbo friendly cams.
 
Quoted from Andrew Stauffer as per that thread...Maybe that will help you in your weekend quest http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DubG60 (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (purplejettahondaeater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *purplejettahondaeater* »_what about engine management? stock ecu? if so for the 2.0 
this seems way too easy, like i could do it as a weekend project

Im using Digi1 from the Corrado...But it most states that would be illegal for you. As for a weekend project??? It took me 6 months from the begining (research and looking for parts) to the time I started the car. Theres still some small things Id like to change...But all in all it runs. But it is by no means a weekend project.


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (chris24g)*

check this site out...
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~xr4tic/


----------



## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (reflexbug)*

haha i've had that bookmarked for awhile


----------



## seako_916 (Apr 1, 2002)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (reflexbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reflexbug* »_check this site out...
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~xr4tic/

helpfull http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jettalvr41 (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (DubG60)*

looking to do the 20v head swap on my BEV possible? heard it was just bolt up but don't believe it, first to do a drive by wire head swap? N/A for now but plans of going boost! T3s for the swap do i need new rods, pistons, and do i need 1.8t intake and exhaust mani? any help at all would be great. even a simple" to hard " would work.


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (jettalvr41)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1674618


----------



## jettalvr41 (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (bonesaw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bonesaw* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1674618

insightful but not much help, mostly talks about ABA i have a BEV which is the newest 2.0, i wondered if this has even been done yet, i will continue to rear and look into not in any real hurry just scoping my options.


----------



## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (jettalvr41)*

Your BEV motor is the same as an AEG, read #7 in the above post for 100% of the info you need.


----------



## jettalvr41 (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (Boostin20v)*

thanks!


----------



## jettalvr41 (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (jettalvr41)*

well broke the timing belt today and threw a rod, so .... 2.0 20v turbo here i come!


----------



## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: Stone Soup! What's the recipe for 20v/ABA? (jettalvr41)*

OK if I wanted to go NA using early aba (forged crank & oil squirters) what would be a good piston (stock 2.0 16v?). Is the AEB wrong head choice? Is anyone else running NA 20/20 street motor? Might still go boosted (if I choose to get into this project). I'm looking at buying this unfinished project from someone else to entertain myself/learn don't even know what car it would go in.


----------



## geralddh15 (Sep 18, 2009)

I have a 20/20 that I'm working on right now and I was talking to a guy about it and he said you can use aha (2.8 v6) pistons since they already have a valve relief cut into them. Does anyone know anything about this? I know the bore is the same but I'm not sure what the compression would be at with those since there more of flat top than the dished. Any input appreciated.:thumbup:


----------



## MK3NORTH (Jul 14, 2004)

If you have to source a block, get an 06A 01+ 2.0 8v block. They have oil squirters, are plenty strong and you can find them with much lower mileage than an ABA.


----------

