# Replacing CIS w/CIS-e motor?



## rotis (Jan 24, 2011)

I apologize if the answer to this is readily apparent, I am fairly ignorant and have been searching, but I'm not sure what options I have.

We've got a 87 Golf (chumpcar) with a semi-exploded 8v 1.8 CIS motor in it. We are looking to swap it with something with (marginally?) more power potential rather than rebuild what we have so I am trying to understand what can fit in the car without too much trouble. Between digi, CIS, and CIS-e my head is spinning.

I've got a lead on a 16v CIS-e "9A" motor, I need to understand the minimal cost/effort options for making this motor work in our car. Any references to provide extra clues would be great. Are there any 16v engine codes I should look for that would be an easier swap? Also, can I take any 1.8 8v block and put my head on it in order to keep the top end and all my CIS bits? What about a 2.0 block?

If it is too much trouble I may just need to keep looking. (woohoo Craigslist!)


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Lets start with the last question first.



rotis said:


> Also, can I take any 1.8 8v block and put my head on it in order to keep the top end and all my CIS bits? What about a 2.0 block?


Yes. Very common half swap is doing the 2.0L bottom end. Any 1.8L water cooled block will bolt right up with some not being so good of an idea as others. Some came with low compression and you would be better off using the high compression motors, even for a chump car. If this is the route you decide to take then it might be best to find a newer engine like the 2H or PF engines from Digifant II vehicles. They would have the least milage, maybe, as they are not as old as the CIS-e GTi motors.



rotis said:


> . . . 8v 1.8 CIS motor in it. We are looking to swap it with something with (marginally?) more power potential . . . so I am trying to understand what can fit in the car without too much trouble. Between digi, CIS, and CIS-e my head is spinning.
> 
> I've got a lead on a 16v CIS-e "9A" motor, I need to understand the minimal cost/effort options for making this motor work in our car. Any references to provide extra clues would be great. Are there any 16v engine codes I should look for that would be an easier swap?


Marginal increase in power is a bit vague. The 9A used CIS-Motronic but will work just fine on CIS or CIS-e and is a 2.0L engine. By the way, are you sure your 87' does not have CIS-e as it should for that year, maybe a Canadian car? Anyhow, not much would be required for swapping in that engine, it is a common swap which reaps at least 25% more power. Another 16V engine wich is even more common would be the CIS-e PL code engine. It is a 1.8L engine and again will fit in with little trouble and almost the same gains in power. 

The real peoblem here is not if there are options but what you really want to do. How much are you looking at spending for the work? How easy is it to find parts where you are located? What will the car be used for? How long do you plan to keep the car? Stick or automatic? Lots of question that should be answered to decide just which way you should go about doing this before starting to spend your money. When you have some hard direct questions then you will be able to get some good answers to help you better.


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## rotis (Jan 24, 2011)

Great, thanks for the info. Right now I am trying to decide between the 9A which is in town, a PF, or a ABA which are both a bit of a drive to get. They are all around the same price.

The car is a manual, the most reliable power for the least money/trouble is the only real goal. It sounds like the 9A probably has the most potential. Our team has no shortage of mechanical experience, it's just that none of us are familiar with VWs so we are struggling to figure out our options. (the car was free...)

What is the best indicator to determine whether we have CIS or CIS-e? A knock sensor? or is there something obvious on the distributor?

Thanks again for the help!


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

rotis said:


> trying to decide between the 9A which is in town, a PF, or a ABA which are both a bit of a drive to get. . . the most reliable power for the least money/trouble is the only real goal.


 All CIS based systems will have the fuel lines that run from the fuel distributor to the injectors at the intake/head. If it has a knock sensor then that narrows it down to CIS-e or Motronic unless someone added one to an older CIS system (doubt it). Also CIS and CIS w/lambda have a control pressure regulator mounted on the front of the block with lines to the fuel distributor. CIS-e and Motronic have a plastic box on the side of the fuel distributor with a two pin electrical connection and also the fuel distributors are aluminum rather than black painted steel. CIS-, and Motronic have an external fuel pressure regulator mounted next to the fuel distributor also, CIS is internal. 87 should be CIS-e as the Motronic was only on the 16v anyhow. 

ABA would or should have the lowest milage and in good shape, but that is not always true. It would make a good sturdy engine with good torque with your current CIS-e head and system. The only catch really is the correct head gasket to seal the oil return as the hole size is different and off-set a little. Many people have done this half swap with great results. The PF is a straight swap and could raise the engines compression if the current engine is a lower compression one, 87 I'm not sure off hand if there were two basic blocks or not. 9A would of course ne the best power and fun factor as swaps go but also require the most in parts to match everything up, but all are factory parts which should be easy to find.


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## rotis (Jan 24, 2011)

So, here is my fuel distribution block: 










Am I crazy, or does that look like CIS basic? edit: heh, sorry it looks like hell, the car did come fresh from a junkyard.


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## dogzila22 (Apr 1, 2008)

CIS w/lambda


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## rotis (Jan 24, 2011)

Hah! Well, that is something I wouldn't have guessed. I assume the lambda adjusts mixture by varying the return flow with what looks like some electronics on a FPR? I think I'm actually slightly more lost than I was a few minutes ago. I'll do some searching on CIS w/lambda and try to figure out what I'm doing. The owner's manual I have makes no reference to lambda with any of the CIS setups.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

dogzila22 said:


> CIS w/lambda


 yup.. CIS-L 

kinda a cross between CIS basic, and CIS-E. it wasnt fully electronic controlled, but wasnt completely mechanical either.. 

it had an ISV, and all that fun stuff, but it still had vacuum advance and all that stuff too.. 

CIS-L = 85 hp stock 8.5:1 comp 

CIS-E = 105 hp stock 10:1 comp


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## rotis (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks for the info, I appreciate all the help! It looks like we're just going for an ABA shortblock swap to minimize cost/trouble. Finally got hooked up with some very knowledgeable folk locally to get us the detail we need for the swap. 

Thanks again guys!


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

the swap is straight forward.. 

just gotta take care of the block breather. and lengthen the exhaust 16mm..


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