# W8 Passat - Good Idea?



## Wanganrunner (Nov 3, 2008)

Now, I am not a VW guy and I'm not even posting this for myself, but my boss is thinking of picking up a W8 6spd Passat wagon and is wondering whether or not it's a good idea.
Are these disasters or relatively solid? 
Here's the car:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...l1259
Thoughts? What should he look into and ask about?


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Wanganrunner)*

take your money and buy a 00-02 audi a6 4.2, you will be more satisfied.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Slimjimmn)*

I you cant fix the W8 yourself it can be a disaster. 
I do all my own work on both of mine. otherwise I'd be broke by now.








A few too many dollars per mile in labor than other models but on sick car with the 6 and upgraded "sport" suspension. I love my 04 wagon. wife loves the sedan. Faster than a lot of R32's but they wont say that at VW for some reason. Personally the wagons are way nice at the track days. the sedan bucks the tail.


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## flavin42 (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (KubvanTurbo)*

I dont think its worth the risk to buy one. The cost to repair is so extremely high that you have to considering totalling a car worth over $10,000. There's also not a lot of places [even VW dealerships] that really know how to fix it. Not good bang for the buck from a support perspective. Your boss can do better with a lot of other choices of cars.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (flavin42)*

What are you talking about? these cars are so de valued if you get a good one its a steal...
mine was 42k got for 27k with 6k miles. no they are turning for 15k Or LESS
you must get one with the six speed and option sport suspension and BBS cause they got way better stuff from the S4 and the basics did not.
Sure they got problems but if it is serviced and nice driving owner there are a lot less problems..... Ive thrashed mine for 60k and had two sets of brakes, three sets of tires ( cam tensioners under warranty ) alt belt, ballance shaft belt, water pump ( warranty ) and a front wheel bearing in that entire time. Ok the four heater motors sucked to replace but all in all for 60 k... not that bad.


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## jnesta21 (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (KubvanTurbo)*

check out the classifieds, im sellin my w8 6 speed for 12500


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## Stymie (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Wanganrunner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wanganrunner* »_Now, I am not a VW guy and I'm not even posting this for myself, but my boss is thinking of picking up a W8 6spd Passat wagon and is wondering whether or not it's a good idea.
Are these disasters or relatively solid? 
Here's the car:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...l1259
Thoughts? What should he look into and ask about? 

An extended warranty. No warranty = no sale.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Stymie)*

extended warranties are a disaster....


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## Stymie (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_extended warranties are a disaster.... 

I'm eager to hear why you think so. A personal experience?


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Stymie)*

go read the cam adjusters thread over again
they will not replace them and get a used motor instead.. one that needs adjuster in a short while
shops get paid in the rears ( after job ) plus have to break it down and wait for an inspector to come look before starting a repair. You car can sit for months if the perfect store hits and the shop doesnt get paid fair for the lift time when that happens. So they suck. I would never get one.
Nor do I buy tires with hazard insurance or cell phones with drop protection.. so for some it works ( if you like loaner cars ) and some it dont.


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## Stymie (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_go read the cam adjusters thread over again

I have, several times.

_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_they will not replace them and get a used motor instead.. one that needs adjuster in a short while

Used motor, what used motor? For a W8? That's bull****. They're not exactly floating around like pencils in school. Oops! My bad. I found a used engine at everdrive.com. http://www.everdrive.com/skus/...e.htm Your price, a sweet $10,700!
From the web site;
INCLUDES: Valve cover to oil pan. 
DOES NOT INCLUDE: Cable Harnesses, sensors, cut hoses and bolt-on parts.
Hopefully, you can get those missing parts from your old engine. If not, they can't be more than a few bucks, can they?
A _new_ replacement engine for a W8 ~$15,000. Replacement cost for _one_ cam chain tensioner ~$4000, including labor. If you have both tensioners replaced at the same time, add another ~$6-800 for the parts. Not much additional labor cost, since the engine is already torn down. 
So you're telling me that some (any) insurance company would rather pay out fifteen grand today, with a good chance of another fifteen grand down the road, instead of paying less than five thousand dollars to solve the problem? Again, that's bull****. If you believe that, then you clearly know nothing about the insurance business. Those companies throw nickels around like they were manhole covers. They won't pay out any more than they have to pay to get the problem fixed, and you gone. They're in the business of _making_ money, not _paying_ money.

_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_shops get paid in the rears ( after job ) plus have to break it down and wait for an inspector to come look before starting a repair. You car can sit for months if the perfect store hits and the shop doesnt get paid fair for the lift time when that happens. So they suck. I would never get one.

A good friend of mine had one of his tensioners go bad last spring. he took his car to the largest of the four VW dealers here in town. Know how long his car was in the shop? Three weeks. Know why it took so long? Engine tables. All of their available engine carts were filled with Toe-rag engines. He got a free loaner, an '07 Passat wagon. Cost of the repair - yup, $4000. Cost to him? $80, the deductible on his extended warranty. The warranty that cost him $1700. I asked him if he at least got a reach around.

_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_Nor do I buy tires with hazard insurance...

You might be on to something here. 
I paid $240 for one of those road hazard warranties when I bought the car. A couple of months later, I hit a pothole. Blew out the right front tire, bent the crap out of the rim. I throw on the spare, and head for the dealer. Result; one shiny new Madras wheel for $~345, and one brand new Michelin for another $~200. Cost to me? Zero, zip, zilch, nada. Man, I really got bent over... oh, wait.
The best part about that wheel/tire thing? They'll do the same, every single time it happens, for as long as I own the car.
You're right, those extended warranties, they suck.

_Modified by Stymie at 2:54 AM 11-18-2008_


_Modified by Stymie at 2:57 AM 11-18-2008_


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Stymie)*

Oh great now its all mad and typing bibles. 
wonderful.. Not why I'm here. 
got any more.?


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Stymie)*

Stymie,
Go read the whole Cam Adjuster thread.....It might take a while..








I've had my adjusters replaced twice. This last time didn't fix it. They had to replace the engine. They replaced the engine with a used engine because they won't exceed the value of the car with the repair cost. You can understand why, the warranty company has no sentiment for the W8 or for the owners you bought them. They rather spend $16,000.00 towards a more reliable VR6 powered Passat than sink $16,000.00 in a W8 that will be back in the shop in 6 weeks.
I was supposed to get my car back today and they called me to inform me that the replacement engine threw a code and it's the cam adjusters. The replacement engine that's supposed to be certified/tested threw an engine code for cam adjusters. Now they want me to shell out $4000.00 to replace the engine they just replaced with a $20,000.00 new engine.
Anyone considering buying this car for anything other than another car to add to their collection of collectables should look for something else. My car has been in the shop for over 9 weeks now. 
Service does not seam to matter. I had my car serviced regularly. I've owned it for 4 years and it has never ran more than 3 months without something breaking.


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*

as a vw tech.I love the idea of these cars.But not the car








It would be fun to modifiy,I see a ton of power coming out of the engine.I'll pick one up these become like audi 5000's


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Daskoupe)*

The car is great when it runs.................... I'm beginning to understand why there are so many of these available with low miles. You can't rack a lot of miles on a car that's always in for repairs. Look on Auto Trader or Ebay and see how many of these are for sale with 50K-70K miles on them. Stay far away from any of these. They have all had or need the cam adjusters replaced.


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*

I drove mine HARD for 75,000 miles. The only issues were the thermostat at 37K and the fuel pump at 74K. As for the post about an early A6 4.2 being cheaper to repair, read my sig....


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## dcrower (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (VWGUY4EVER)*

Just traded my W8 in for a Touareg 2 V8 FSI. Loved my W8, but it cost me plenty to own. At 100,001 miles, I laid out $3,000 for a new torque converter. Had to deal with the damn coils too. Air conditioning head unit was replaced at 15k under warranty. Car was absolutely amazing to drive and purrrrred like a cat through the entire RPM range. Great in snow. Moved through corners with confidence...damn thing never missed a beat. Loved it. Miss it. Don't miss the worry or the damned repair bills. Would agree with others on here...not worth buying unless you are a VW collector (only made this model for a few years), ready to lay out cash for repairs, or you're just plain goofy.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

I probably need my head examined, but if I can find an Audi dealer willing to trade I want a 4.2L Allroad Quattro....Found a 2005 with 53K and a clean carfax for $18,900.00.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_I probably need my head examined, but if I can find an Audi dealer willing to trade I want a 4.2L Allroad Quattro....Found a 2005 with 53K and a clean carfax for $18,900.00. 

Yes you do in all forms of the words, do need you head examined.
Go buy a honda or Lexus...


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

I already have a Honda Accord


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

kubvan is a douchebag.
i went to school(former VW) tech for these cars and i would buy one in a heart beat, i got almost every one while at fairfax VW, and it seem when they weren't wanted by the other techs, their intimidating cars to work on, but their actually very simple. they are a combination of a few VAG products.
the ones i didn't get seemed to come back again and again.anyway, if you can even find one, check it out, drive it, talk to the owner, see what they have had. i have seen some that had problems and some that didn't. worst apart about most owners, is they wanna buy a very low production hard to come by car, and not to do any maintenance. so they got stuck with some serious repairs. all cars have problems, sometimes people get ****ty ones.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (Vegeta Gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vegeta Gti* »_kubvan is a douchebag.


I love you to. 
Let me check ... you own a W8? nope
one more noob stalker. 
got any more?


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## alaskadub (Feb 8, 2008)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

I love these 'holier than thou' service types that point the finger at enthusiasts for causing their own problems but no longer or never have owned one themselves. My guess is that they either sold an about to be broken W8 or saw the writing on the wall and unloaded it. I'm ever more amused by the guys that say: "I ragged the heck out of mine, but always rubbed my belly twice and stomped my feet three times before I started it and I never had any problems." Then inexplicably they sell it and brag about how they might buy another one. Yeah right. Drive it as hard as you want - that's not causing the problem. Put in all the high quality Synthetic you want at whatever interval - that could just work and you might just get lucky - FOR A WHILE. Do all the maintenance you want by the book or better - but if you hold onto it long enough your chances of having the Torque Converter or Cam Adjusters crap themselves will be huge (ly expensive). No one in their right mind would claim the Torque Converters are owner induced, so why point the fingers at us for the Cam Adjusters? A final note to all holier than thous - there are a lot of mint condition, low mileage W8s on the market for less than 8 thousand dollars these days. Why don't you go pick one up and slap a new motor in it after 3 - 30 thousand miles. 8 thousand plus a 10 thousand dollar repair is only 18K afterall. Help yourselves. Keep it for more than 5 years and 60 thousand and then come back and talk some smack


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (alaskadub)*

Who pointed fingers ?


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## flavin42 (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: (VWGUY4EVER)*

Just for fun, I went to see if the car ever sold... the highest bid was $3200 for a 2003 W8 wagon that cost almost 40K 6 years ago... cant get much quicker depreciation than that !


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (flavin42)*

Sure ya can.. 2008 S8 stickered at $114,000 in July. They traded it in November with *SEVENTEEN-HUNDRED AND FORTY-SEVEN MILES* on it. They got a check for $72,000....... $43,000 in 4 months, more than the total purchase of a W8 in 2002, 2003 or 2004 in 4 months.. The car market today, new or used, is in the tank...


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (VWGUY4EVER)*

highest low leader for of lease was the w12 pheaton. 112k ish to 47k one year lease
smashed w8 at auction in denver....1200 bucks last year
you cant sell them and win so I am going to keep mine for a long time and enjoy


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

Just to update everyone......My W8 still isn't fixed. It was in the shop 3 months for cam adjusters and a new gas tank. The car is now FUBAR. They replaced the sending units twice since replacing the tank because the fuel gage has a mind of its own. They just replaced the instrument cluster and it still has the same problem. The engine quits under wide open throttle (especially on take off). There is static and popping noises coming through the radio just prior to the engine shutting off. Repeatidly sticking your foot in it for like 3 consecutive shut downs and the entire electrical system goes dead. Upon restarting, the Alternator Warning sign is lit up and stays on for about 3 miles. None of these problems existed before they worked on the car.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

Sounds to me like the problem is with the mechanics and not the car.


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## beneviva (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: (B5Speedo)*

Yeah. My cam adjusters & chains & stuff were replaced in an independed garage, that had never done the job before and they did excellent work. The car was in for 2 weeks - and they had to wait a week for parts (ordered from Germany). I have driven almost 4000 miles after the repair and I haven't had a single thing to complain about. It is hard to believe that an authorized dealer can screw up a repair that badly








Btw, the mechanic told me that replacing the timing chains was as easy as replacing bike chains...

_Modified by beneviva at 7:54 AM 3-9-2009_


_Modified by beneviva at 7:58 AM 3-9-2009_


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (Wanganrunner)*

Maintenance disasters, pure disasters.
I have ~100K on my car. Here is a list of periodic maintenance and their cost:
* $120 every 5K miles -- oil change service (amongst other things)
* $150 every 20K miles -- rear brake pads
* $500 every 40K miles -- front brake pads and rotors
* $700 every 80K miles -- tune up (amongst other things)
* $35-40 every 400 miles -- super unleaded gasoline (required)
Here is a list of unscheduled repairs (but schedule it for this car--mileage depends):
* $500 (??? can't remember exact cost) -- single Bi-Xenon headlight amp--not the bulb
* $150 -- each Bi-Xenon headlight bulb (both went on mine)
* $3000 -- torque converter (only for auto tranny cars obviously)
* $7500-8000 -- cam adjuster problem 
Please note, either warranty or threat of suit (to VWoA and dealer) may get these last two items fixed (the latter for me).

After all that, yeah, I'd say the car is fine. I've been trying to sell my car for the better part of 8 months and not a single offer or even interest. As many others, I am stuck with this car until it dies.
So, if I were you and for the sake of your career, I'd tell him;/her to stay away from these cars--unless you work for VW...


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (beneviva)*

If they say that it's as easy as replacing bike chains it must be...........right?
Lets see the to do list:
1: Partially remove front clip (the radiator, radiator core support, grill, and bumber all are moved out and away from the car using 2 special tools/jigs that hold the assembly out and away from the car about 6 inches)
2: Disconect/remove the front suspension, brakes, and drive shafts
3: Disconnect the rear drive shaft from transmission
4: Disconnect assessories like A/C, oil coolers, wiring harnesses, etc.
5: Unbolt and lower the front subframe/engine/transmission from the bottom of the car as one complete assembly
6: Unbolt and remove engine from tansmission
7: Finally, now you have access to the back of the engine where the timing chain is.
8: Now begin the task of replacing the timing chain and cam adjusters
This isn't a task you can do with basic hand tools in your garrage. 1st of all, you have to get the car high enough off the ground to remove the engine/trans/subframe from under the car. That eliminates about 99% of most shade tree mechanics trying to do this from their garrage.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

Instead of a W8 Passat for $10K that will require over $20K in repairs over the next 2 years go buy a 2008 Nissan 350Z with 2,500 miles for $25,900.00. Below is the link:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/...false

Then take that car to this guy @ http://www.gtmotorsports.com/p...age=1

For $14,000.00 he will install a complete stroker 4.2L engine that cranks out over 700RWH.
So, for less than what a new W8 cost in 2004 you can buy a 2008 Nissan 350Z and have a race ready 700hp engine. Best of all, the Nissan engine has parts readily available if anything breaks.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_Instead of a W8 Passat for $10K that will require over $20K in repairs over the next 2 years 

Bullsh*t. You know nothing.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (dstathos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dstathos* »_Maintenance disasters, pure disasters.
I have ~100K on my car. Here is a list of periodic maintenance and their cost:
* $120 every 5K miles -- oil change service (amongst other things)
* $150 every 20K miles -- rear brake pads
* $500 every 40K miles -- front brake pads and rotors
* $700 every 80K miles -- tune up (amongst other things)
* $35-40 every 400 miles -- super unleaded gasoline (required)
Here is a list of unscheduled repairs (but schedule it for this car--mileage depends):
* $500 (??? can't remember exact cost) -- single Bi-Xenon headlight amp--not the bulb
* $150 -- each Bi-Xenon headlight bulb (both went on mine)
* $3000 -- torque converter (only for auto tranny cars obviously)
* $7500-8000 -- cam adjuster problem 
Please note, either warranty or threat of suit (to VWoA and dealer) may get these last two items fixed (the latter for me).

After all that, yeah, I'd say the car is fine. I've been trying to sell my car for the better part of 8 months and not a single offer or even interest. As many others, I am stuck with this car until it dies.
So, if I were you and for the sake of your career, I'd tell him;/her to stay away from these cars--unless you work for VW...


1. DIY oil change will cut your cost almost in half. And guess what? Every eight cylinder will cost the same for oil changes.








2. DIY rear brake pads is <$60. You are getting ripped off by your mechanic and the pads should last longer than 20K miles. Mine went 40K.
3. DIY front brake pads and rotors <$160. Again you are getting ripped off by your mechanic and the pads/rotors should last longer than 20K miles. Mine went 40K.
4. DIY tune up??? air and cabin filters every 20K miles. DIY <$30. Spark plugs every 40K miles DIY <$50. Brake fluid flush every 2 years. DIY $30. Again your mechanic is ripping you off.
5. HID capsules are <$100. Same cost for any HID light set and NOT W8 specific. If you want to whine about the cost, sell the lights and buy halogens. A ballast is not $500, do some homework.
6. The TC is a problem for manual owners but it is NOT a W8 specifc issue. Buy a manual is this is not a problem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
7. The cam adjusters is a design issue but I have yet to see a 6MT owner have this problem. This and TC is really the major issue and W8 TIP owner will have to deal with. However, solutions with pulling the engine are starting to appear. 
8. Every VW gasoline engine runs on premium fuel. So what exactly is the issue here?








Buy your own parts, get a better machanic, and buy an extended warranty and you will be fine.
Obviously you are a very naive car owner. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Show me another German car with a V8 and AWD that has lower maintenance costs. Guess what? Ther isn't one.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_extended warranties are a disaster.... 

No, just the one YOU bought is. My dealer loves my extened warranty company.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (B5Speedo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B5Speedo* »_
No, just the one YOU bought is. My dealer loves my extened warranty company.









NOT!!
I purchased my extended warranty from the VW dealership. I paid $4,800 for a 4/year/48K warranty. It did not cover the full price of the new engine. The warranty won't pay for more than the car is worth. If the engine cost $20,000.00 the warranty isn't going to pay to replace that engine in a $10,000.00 car.
I had to pay the difference of the cost of the engine and the book value of my car. Now the engine has 8500 miles on it and the oil is full of metal shavings.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_
NOT!!
I purchased my extended warranty from the VW dealership. I paid $4,800 for a 4/year/48K warranty. It did not cover the full price of the new engine. The warranty won't pay for more than the car is worth. If the engine cost $20,000.00 the warranty isn't going to pay to replace that engine in a $10,000.00 car.
I had to pay the difference of the cost of the engine and the book value of my car. Now the engine has 8500 miles on it and the oil is full of metal shavings.

Like I said you bought the wrong warranty. Mine is not from VW. It cost ~$2,000 and is for 6 years and 100K miles. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for the oil being full of metal shavings I would think you have a very incompetant mechanic.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (dstathos)*

Amen to maintenance dissaster!!
My 2002 W8 Wagon has had the following replaced and it only has 84K miles on it.
1) Electronics Control Module for all the steering wheel controls @ 25K
2) Home Link sun visor @ 28K
3) Missing floor pan to fire wall welds replaced and seam sealed @ 33K
4) Ruined carpet replaced @ 33K as a result of the missing seam sealer and welds in the floor pan
5) cam adjusters @ 35K
6) 2 CV Boots replaced @ 40K
7) 1 transmission replaced @ 49K
8) Transmission seal replaced @ 58K
9) 1 CV boot replaced @ 58K
10) Failed cam adjuster replacement @ 76K
11) 2nd attempt at installing the adjusters failed by a VW tech @ 76K
12) 3rd attempt worked, but metal soon appeared in the oil @ 76K
13) Engine Replaced @ 76K
14) Alternator replaced at 76K
15) Fuel Tank sprung a leak also at 76K and was replaced
16) Emergency brake cable replaced at 77K
17) Front rotors replaced at 77K
18) All 3 fuel sending units replaced @ 79K
19) Entire Instrument cluster replaced @ 80K
At 84K the front axles need replacing, the rear rotors need replacing, the new engine has metal in the oil (needs replacing), and the new alternator is going out. These last 4 repairs alone would cost over $25,000.00 if I had to pay cash.
I can buy a 2008 Nissan 350Z with 2,500 miles on it for the amount of money this one shop visit is going to cost.
Does anyone remember the *Yugo*? It had a better reliability rating than the W8.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (B5Speedo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B5Speedo* »_
Like I said you bought the wrong warranty. Mine is not from VW. It cost ~$2,000 and is for 6 years and 100K miles. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for the oil being full of metal shavings I would think you have a very incompetant mechanic.

What does competency of the mechanic have to do with metal shavings in the oil?
*It is a BRAND NEW engine! It has never been worked on. *
The correct response would have been *"It sounds like you bought a car built/designed by an incompetant MANUFACTURER"*
The fact that VW dropped the W8 engine from its engine line up says it all.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_10) Failed cam adjuster replacement @ 76K
11) 2nd attempt at installing the adjusters failed by a VW tech @ 76K
12) 3rd attempt worked, but metal soon appeared in the oil @ 76K
13) Engine Replaced @ 76K
14) Alternator replaced at 76K
15) Fuel Tank sprung a leak also at 76K and was replaced


Like I said you have a bad mecahanic. All those problems at the same time is too much of a coincidence. Most VW dealers don't even see W8 so even a trained W8 tech can get rusty.
I'm sure W12 and W16 owners appreciate the fact that VW made the W8.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (B5Speedo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B5Speedo* »_
Like I said you have a bad mecahanic. All those problems at the same time is too much of a coincidence. Most VW dealers don't even see W8 so even a trained W8 tech can get rusty.
I'm sure W12 and W16 owners appreciate the fact that VW made the W8.









Sorry if you misunderstood my list of *Maintenance Disasters* 
All those items didn't break at 76K. *They were repaired/replaced at 76K* The emergency brake cable was sticking since about 55K. I never use it so it wasn't an issue. The cam adjusters failed at 69K. The car still ran and the dealer said as long as it runs you can drive it and I did. The radiator fan went out at 72K (forgot to include that one on my list). The car never overheated so I kept driving it. The gas tank started leaking at 76K. At that point I had no choice but to bring it in. I had 4 items break over a period of about 16K miles (6 months) and I brought it in when it became unsafe to drive. 
The front brake rotors were replaced because they wanted $800.00 to turn the front rotors and replace the pads with OEM pads. I purchased aftermarket Brembos and ceramic pads for HALF that price. I typically go through rotors in 40-50K. These lasted 76K
This has been a typical pattern. Every 6 months I leave it at the dealer with at least $5,000.00 of repairs to be done. Within the first month or 3K miles after service something else breaks. I keep driving it until it becomes undriveable or 3-5 items break/fail (6 months tops).
Some people reading this will assume that I'm very hard on vehicles. I am hard brakes, but that's about it. I have a 2000 Dodge Dakota R/T that I drive 2 days a week and week ends and I drive it much harder than I drive this car. It now has 60K miles on it. It has never been in the shop. The only parts replaced on this truck are the brake rotors. Not one bolt has been touched on this truck







Thank God I kept it. I was offered 12K for it 3 years ago and I almost sold it. Without this reliable *AMERICAN* made truck in my stable I would be out hundreds of dollars in rental car fees.


_Modified by un4givun2 at 4:32 PM 4-23-2009_


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_The front brake rotors were replaced because they wanted $800.00 to turn the front rotors and replace the pads with OEM pads. I purchased aftermarket Brembos and ceramic pads for HALF that price.

If you got Bremo rotors I'd like to know where you purchased them. No place online I checked stocked them or was willing to order them. I found the VW dealer had the best price at $92 a pair. If your mechanic wanted to turn your front rotors they are idiots. It will not work. Like I said a lot your problems may be your mechanic.

_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_This has been a typical pattern. Every 6 months I leave it at the dealer with at least $5,000.00 of repairs to be done. Within the first month or 3K miles after service something else breaks. I keep driving it until it becomes undriveable or 3-5 items break/fail (6 months tops).


Wow, that's $10K per year. For a 2002 that would be $70K!!!!!!!!!!








At 62K miles I've had two warranty repairs. 1) outside temp sensor, 2) leaking radiator. Out of pocket cost was $50.
Yes, you have a lemon but it does not mean every W8 will be like your. I'm sorry you have had such a bad experience but every manufactrurer will have cars like that.


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## beneviva (Dec 28, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_
The cam adjusters failed at 69K. The car still ran and the dealer said as long as it runs you can drive it and I did.


Uhh, I got just the opposite advice from my mechanic... he told me not to drive at all with the car or else they could be VERY expensive miles. So, the car was towed to the carage & repaired & and I still have the same engine.
I'm not an expert myself, but I believe it is indeed not a good idea to drive when the engine's timing is off! Basically the whole engine is out of synch all the time, I really couldn't dare to tell anybody to just drive!


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (B5Speedo)*

Just the repairs over $1k and the $20K I paid for the car comes to $54,000.00 in 4 years. That is $1,125.00 a month. That's not the total ownership cost. Granted, the warranty and/or extended warranty paid for most of that.
If they decide the engine needs replacing again on 4-28-09 the cost will jump to $74,000.00 in 48 months.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (beneviva)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beneviva* »_
Uhh, I got just the opposite advice from my mechanic... he told me not to drive at all with the car or else they could be VERY expensive miles. So, the car was towed to the carage & repaired & and I still have the same engine.
I'm not an expert myself, but I believe it is indeed not a good idea to drive when the engine's timing is off! Basically the whole engine is out of synch all the time, I really couldn't dare to tell anybody to just drive!

First of all, the cam adjusters don't control the engine timing. The ECU controls the engine timing. If a cam adjuster fails you no longer have that fancy variable valve timing that gives this engine it's little extra oomph. As long as the valves clear the pistons there is no damage that can occur to the engine running it with the valves opening and closing more advanced than they are supposed to be. Those clearances are already built into the engine. All you sacrifice is HP in the upper RPM range and torque in the lower RPM range.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*

I disagree completely! By having the cam adjusters failing you run the risk of stretching the timing chain. What is really failing is a screen that filters the oil for the hydrolics of the adjusters. Once a chain starts to stretch more problems will arise. 


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_
First of all, the cam adjusters don't control the engine timing. The ECU controls the engine timing. If a cam adjuster fails you no longer have that fancy variable valve timing that gives this engine it's little extra oomph. As long as the valves clear the pistons there is no damage that can occur to the engine running it with the valves opening and closing more advanced than they are supposed to be. Those clearances are already built into the engine. All you sacrifice is HP in the upper RPM range and torque in the lower RPM range.


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## alaskadub (Feb 8, 2008)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (B5Speedo)*

b5speedo is right. Ignore the cam P codes and the timing chain will stretch or jump a tooth. Don't ask me or my dealer how I know (they took it on trade). Expensive problems will become even slightly more expnensive. Every time I see one of those almost great cars in my town I want to leave a letter of warning and link to these sights so that they can be forewarned. Lost a lot of money on that toy! Oh - and mine only had 50,200 miles but after it was auction twice after the trade it was in need of a second Torque converter in addition to all the other junk. Any way you try and spin that it still comes up as stupid.


_Modified by alaskadub at 3:49 PM 5-6-2009_


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (alaskadub)*

First of all, a 79,000 mile motor already has timing chain stretch. It's called normal wear and tear. 
Second of all, the timing chain assembly gets replaced when ever they replace the cam adjusters. That's all part of the $5,500.00 price tag. 
Putting the old timing chain back on an 80K engine that just got the cam adjusters replaced would be like putting the old piston rings back in an engine with a new set of pistons. 
In other words, to worry about the timing chain stretching at this point in the game is ridiculous.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*

And this is from the expert who has sunk over $10K in his car and will never buy another VW again?









_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_First of all, a 79,000 mile motor already has timing chain stretch. It's called normal wear and tear. 
Second of all, the timing chain assembly gets replaced when ever they replace the cam adjusters. That's all part of the $5,500.00 price tag. 
Putting the old timing chain back on an 80K engine that just got the cam adjusters replaced would be like putting the old piston rings back in an engine with a new set of pistons. 
In other words, to worry about the timing chain stretching at this point in the game is ridiculous.


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## alaskadub (Feb 8, 2008)

*Re: W8 Passat - Good Idea? (un4givun2)*

That 5,500 dollar price tag must have been for parts, with you doing your own labor (holier than thou mechanic type that mysteriously dumped hisW8 too). Or do I have the wrong uber mechanic. The price seems to trend closer to the 7500 to 10,000 dolloar range. At any rate. Nurse along a W8 that is throwing cam codes while trying to fix it by dumping in Sea foam, etc and you risk having the timing chain jump, which if ignored can cause further problems. So good luck with that. Again, I miss mine, but (presumably) just like the uber mechanic it was too much $$ and hassle for the fun. Buy a used A6 avant and have slightly more predictable expenses.


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## EliteAutoCareTech (May 24, 2010)

*There not so bad*

I was a 2007 certified VW Master technician working at a Dealer in the Pacific Northwest. I have since left for the dealerships for greener grass. I loved doing cam adjusters on these W8's. I did at least 20 before I left the dealer. Some where brought to me from other dealers who refused to do the job. At first I did the engine/trans R&R; Probably the first 12-15. The ONLY REASON you would need to remove the engine to do the camshaft adjusters is to loosen the chain tensioner on the passenger bank. You cannot get a wrench on it in the car (or can you). A 27mm hex drive external tensioner (similar if not the same as the VR6 tensioner) cannot be removed without removing the exhaust manifold. 

I have seen the "electroshock therapy" tech tip usually work about 50% of the time. It was almost never a permanent repair. Most cars needed to have the adjusters replaced.

Never was I told nor do I think it is necessary to replace the timing chains. There are tensioners which will take up the slack of an aging chain. There is no need to remove the engine, trans or flywheel to fix this problem. Just replace the adjuster solenoids, blow out the passages in the camshafts, replace the sealing rings on the camshaft, clean and blow out the mechanical adjuster drums. It is also important to prime the oil system before starting. I had a small adapter that I used to connect pressurized oil to the oil filter cap drain plug and pumped 9 quarts before starting. If you don't do this then it will be very noisy for a few seconds after initial start up and may jump a tooth on the chain. Learned that one the hard way. 

There is a way to replace these adjusters without removing the engine. If any TECHNICIAN wants to know how you can send a message to [email protected]

As to Unforgiven's car:
The electrical issues were caused by the engine to chassis ground cable either loose or not installed at all. this was a mistake by the technician. I'm they realized this and neglected to tell you.

Your fuel gauges and instrument cluster were fine. After they replaced those they found out the problem was water leaking into the trunk which played hell with your fuel pump control module. This will cause issues with the CAN Bus and can sometimes cause the windows, door locks and other comfort module functions to be erratic.

The reason the original repair was unsuccessful was because some of the bits of screen were stuck on the passages in the camshafts. I would always blow these out with shop air. I learned this the hard way too.

As to the metal shavings: The reason the screens are installed in the cam adjuster was to prevent metal shaving from entering the adjusters during the initial break-in of the engine. These engines are built by method of "Torqued at temperature." The rotating assembly is torqued in a fancy oven at engine operating temperatures. These are extremely tight tolerances and some metal shavings are normal. Most shavings wont make it past the filter but if they do they wont get past the adjuster screens. Can you say "backfire"?

All cars have their issues; The W8's issues were expensive. The Torque converter is not a problem which was exclusive to the W8; Ask any Audi technician. Once the TC and the Cam adjuster are done, this car is a very low maintenance vehicle. But like any automatic transmission car, it will be replaced eventually. That is why I own a 6 speed manual transmission W8 wagon.

Cheers


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