# VR6 vs. TDI



## Hoosierdub (Nov 17, 2011)

Really interested in a Touareg. Drove a VR6, wonder why people opt for the TDI? What is/are the prevailing reasons for the TDI? I even drove an A6, but I just can't get the Touareg out of my head. Very interested in everyday driving concerns like passing, rather than a raw 0-60 time. Any input appreciated.


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## Sammzway (Aug 14, 2011)

The obvious reason would be MPG. TDI (in any VW models) provide close to 30mpg compared to gasser. Many also like the overall sound and durability of Diesel engine however 90% people do it for extra miles.


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## grohgreg (Jun 12, 2011)

And towing. You're not going to get a VR6 or an A6 to pull anywhere near the 7700 pound-rated Touareg TDI. Given an 8-speed tranny (6+2) that's turned by 406 ft-lbs of torque, highway passing capability is excellent too. Gobs of power to merge at or above speed limit from on-ramps as well. 

But to be fair, you're trying to compare three completely different vehicle classes; luxury SUV for the Touareg, sport sedan for the VR6, luxury sedan for the A6. Or you may be confusing the V6 gasoline Touareg engine with the I6 engine in the Passat/Jetta/Golf VR6 models. In the gasoline (non-hybrid) Touareg, they call it the V6 FSI. The FSI stands for Fuel Stratified Injection, which is just VW-speak for direct injection

//greg//


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## VW/Porsche Fahrer (Dec 14, 2011)

My Touareg TDI has only 1000 miles on it but it averages about 25 mpg around town and about 30 mpg on the highway. If you are careful you can get about 2 - 3 mpg higher in both situations.

The TDI has strong acceleration from 0-60. It is very responsive around town and more than adequate on the highway. The trans works very well to make use of the those 406 lb-ft. The range is 650 to 750 miles per tank. The engine is very quiet unless it cold out ( ~25F) with a cold start.


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

Just go drive a TDI, it will become clearer then. As to the other poster that mentioned sound, it really sounds no different then a VR6 gas motor and I have had people comment on just that. It is a very quiet motor for a diesel and you barely hear the rattle at all.


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## Diirk (Jan 9, 2000)

The first thing several friends said was about how quiet it was. I can also vouch for the mileage and performance. Every time I drive it I'm more impressed with how well it performs, and as the motor breaks in, it will only get better. 

Even the magazine reviews say to take the TDI over the VR6.


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## fleuger99 (Mar 12, 2006)

I drive to work 4 days per week doing 94miles round trip per day. It is 90% highway where I'm averaging 70 - 75 Mph and I'm getting 29Mpg average with my best day at 70Mph average speed I got 31Mpg. 

I wanted the good fuel mileage, all the amazing thing the Touareg provides (handling, features etc.), space for my two large dogs and the fact that with maintenence a diesel engine will run for ever. 

Drive a diesel and you'll understand. :thumbup:


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## Hoosierdub (Nov 17, 2011)

Honestly, this is all very helpful. Thanks a ton. I've always tried to get those "best of both worlds" cars, balancing price, mileage, utility, durability and performance. Now I just have to go drive the TDI.


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## Hoosierdub (Nov 17, 2011)

By the way, my round trip is about 96 miles. These are killer mpg numbers for such a utilitarian vehicle. I know the Treg and the A6 are remarkably different, but these mpg numbers for the TDI, coupled with the functional aspects of the Treg, are just killer.


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## Diirk (Jan 9, 2000)

Just wanted to add my most recent experience. 
We went down to see some friends for New Years. 80 miles one way. This includes an elevation change of about 2000'. We averaged about 27 mpg round trip, and that was with me running 80+ mph on the way home, up the grade. Power and handling both came into play, and it amazes me that the Touareg still gets better mileage then my Subi.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

As stated earlier.... once you drive the TDI, you will undertand.


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## AsianDude (Sep 17, 2007)

I don't know about others but the VR6 in the T3 is underpowered and has to work hard to get the truck moving in any decent fashion.
the TDI is more suited to the weight of the T3, but I still hear the diesel chatter in direct comparison to the gasser.


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

AsianDude said:


> I don't know about others but the VR6 in the T3 is underpowered and has to work hard to get the truck moving in any decent fashion.
> the TDI is more suited to the weight of the T3, but I still hear the diesel chatter in direct comparison to the gasser.


I find this to be an interesting comment for every Treg that has had a version of the VR in it people complain about it being a weak motor to move the vehical. The T3 is lighter then the previous gens and the VR now has the most power it has had while in a Treg. It should move the T3 just fine. I had an 04 with a VR and lived at altitude in UT. I never had an issue getting it to move and thought it had more balls then the 300hp Intech V8 that was in the Navigator I traded in on it. It even was less hp then the current VR. 

That being said I love my TDI even more then that VR and it always had plenty of power while I was living in UT and runs great here in PA.


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## AsianDude (Sep 17, 2007)

The VR is fine for many until you drive the TDI back to back


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## 2VWatatime (Aug 4, 2006)

AsianDude said:


> The VR is fine for many until you drive the TDI back to back


Disagree, and I've had seat time in both. FWIW, the TDI is still louder than the gas version, esp @ cold start, and diesel still isn't the most plentiful.
As far as towing, note all T1/2 are rated @ 7700 - and I've put this one thru some serious paces over the years...


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## grohgreg (Jun 12, 2011)

2VWatatime said:


> Disagree, and I've had seat time in both. FWIW, the TDI is still louder than the gas version, esp @ cold start, and diesel still isn't the most plentiful.


That "_diesel still isn't the most plentiful_" is a bit confusing. Otherwise it sounds like you're talking about the earlier Touareg TDIs. Try a 2011-2012 and see if you still go away with the same impression.

//greg//


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

2VWatatime said:


> Disagree, and I've had seat time in both. FWIW, the TDI is still louder than the gas version, esp @ cold start, and diesel still isn't the most plentiful.
> As far as towing, note all T1/2 are rated @ 7700 - and I've put this one thru some serious paces over the years...


Which TDI are you referring to? The V6 TDI is pretty quiet in my opinion. Honestly it does not sound a lot different then the VR really. You get a little rattle, but nothing like full size truck and even the V10 TDI. All gens of the Treg are rated for 7700 lb towing capacity regardless of motor under the hood.


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

grohgreg said:


> That "_diesel still isn't the most plentiful_" is a bit confusing. Otherwise it sounds like you're talking about the earlier Touareg TDIs. Try a 2011-2012 and see if you still go away with the same impression.
> 
> //greg//


I think he is talking about a V10TDI, because the V6 I have in my 10 is the same as yours in your T3. They are not loud at all.


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## Diirk (Jan 9, 2000)

Yeti35 said:


> I think he is talking about a V10TDI, because the V6 I have in my 10 is the same as yours in your T3. They are not loud at all.


I have to agree. My friend that was listening to our TDI in a closed garage from outside the vehicle had no idea it was a diesel until I told him.


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## 2VWatatime (Aug 4, 2006)

T2 - and yes, TDIs are louder, and no, diesel fuel is not always readily available. I prefer the lighter, quieter, smoother gas. Others may not.


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

2VWatatime said:


> T2 - and yes, TDIs are louder, and no, diesel fuel is not always readily available. I prefer the lighter, quieter, smoother gas. Others may not.


Ok, you are now mentioning T2, but which TDI motor? 08 had the V10 and 09-10 had the V6. V10 is somewhat noisey, but nothing like a diesel PU. The V6 is pretty quiet and in some respects sounds like the gas V6. Diesel is probably more readily available then you realize unless you are living in a pretty remote area. The V6 TDI is a smooth motor and if you have never driven one I think you should try one out sometime. You will be surprised.


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## 2VWatatime (Aug 4, 2006)

Yeti35 said:


> Ok, you are now mentioning T2, but which TDI motor? 08 had the V10 and 09-10 had the V6. V10 is somewhat noisey, but nothing like a diesel PU. The V6 is pretty quiet and in some respects sounds like the gas V6. Diesel is probably more readily available then you realize unless you are living in a pretty remote area. The V6 TDI is a smooth motor and if you have never driven one I think you should try one out sometime. You will be surprised.


No, I won't be surprised, as I've driven all varieties, and I stand by all comments. Why the constant picking on the gas 6?


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

2VWatatime said:


> No, I won't be surprised, as I've driven all varieties, and I stand by all comments. Why the constant picking on the gas 6?


I am picking on it because I owned one once and would rather have a TDI over a gas. Mileage on the gas is no where near the TDI. I really have no issues with the gas motor other then I would never buy another one after driving my TDI. Torque over the hp any day for me.


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## STR3T (Jan 24, 2003)

I didn't know diesel from adam when I test drove drove both the gas and then TDI. This after test driving FX35, Q5 and a couple other non-notables.

It was hands-down TDI...immediately fell in love w/ the TDI's constant/smooth power band at lower RPM's. 

TDI is QUIET...I can't imagine there's a measurable difference in decibles vs. gas engine.

I've had many family/friends in the vehicle for miles before they found out it was diesel and had zero clue based on either sound or smoke (non-existent).


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## schubie (Mar 26, 2009)

STR3T said:


> TDI is QUIET...I can't imagine there's a measurable difference in decibles vs. gas engine.
> 
> I've had many family/friends in the vehicle for miles before they found out it was diesel and had zero clue based on either sound or smoke (non-existent).


What he said.


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## VolksTrooper (Dec 4, 2007)

believe it or not TDI is quieter at acceleration and cruise.


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## AsianDude (Sep 17, 2007)

VolksTrooper said:


> believe it or not TDI is quieter at acceleration and cruise.


I think you may be right about this...but only after a certain rpm...at idle and up to probably 1800-2200, it still has a slight clatter that is not in the gasser


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## 2VWatatime (Aug 4, 2006)

VolksTrooper said:


> believe it or not TDI is quieter at acceleration and cruise.


Simply not true of any (including current) TDI models. This isn't subjective, but measurable.


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## J.R. Rogers (Dec 29, 2000)

Another reason to consider the TDI over the VR6 is the higher resale value.

I've only had my TDI Treg less than a week but I'm really impressed by the balance of performance / comfort / features / economy that this thing provides, and the TDI engine is a big part of that. I'm averaging 26mpg in the city! ...In a vehicle that drives like a sports car, tows, hauls kids, offroads, etc.


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## VolksTrooper (Dec 4, 2007)

2VWatatime said:


> Simply not true of any (including current) TDI models. This isn't subjective, but measurable.


Most diesels will best a gas engine under full throttle and cruise for sound. I can't find specs on the touareg as of right now but here are two examples of diesel vs HYBRID which can be even quieter than normal gasoline engines. Your right this is measurable and the data proves my point.

prius @ Full throttle (dB) 73.4
Jetta tdi @ Full throttle (dB) 71.4

Infinity M35h @ Full throttle (dB) 74.8
Mercedes bluetec @ Full throttle (dB) 66.9



And if we're talking extremes maybe not the rule, you'll never see this in a gas touareg.


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## Diirk (Jan 9, 2000)

VolksTrooper said:


> And if we're talking extremes maybe not the rule, you'll never see this in a gas touareg.


Challenge Accepted!!!!


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## grohgreg (Jun 12, 2011)

Diirk said:


> Challenge Accepted!!!!


42 mpg from a petrol Touareg FSI? I gotta see this. Hybrids and _downhill with the wind_ don't count.

//greg//


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## VolksTrooper (Dec 4, 2007)

full details here, post up a video response when you try this


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## Diirk (Jan 9, 2000)

You may have misunderstood my intention...


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## robrobsen (Jan 12, 2009)

Got into a 2012 V6 two week ago... Leased it as it's for Business. I know the mileage is better on the TDI..didn't see the need to go diesel.. Also not towing anything. Quiet smooth ride, I'm fine with it.

Perhaps opt. For TDI when lease is over.. In 35 months (smile)


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## VolksTrooper (Dec 4, 2007)

Diirk said:


> You may have misunderstood my intention...


lol, in L/100 km next time


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## Diirk (Jan 9, 2000)

VolksTrooper said:


> lol, in L/100 km next time


We'll see. My wife wasn't happy that I was screwing up her average. She was over 30mpg before I started driving...


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## VolksTrooper (Dec 4, 2007)

then maybe you should do her a favor.


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## Diirk (Jan 9, 2000)

Nice! But nah. If she doesn't like what I do to her mileage, she can drive. I can't stand milking the mileage. Plus, when I'm driving, it's usually running around town, whereas her commute is all hwy. I really don't have a chance.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

Good thread. I am starting to prepare for my next Treg. Really want the Executive. I drove both the VR6 and TDI Executives yesterday. Both silver/anthracite. I do love the TDI...never had a diesel. Noticed the slight chatter but not an issue for me. The slight hesitation when starting due to the glow plugs was new to me. Loved the torque! 

Issue is I prefer the Exec and there is no incentive on the TDI other than the 0.0%. The gasser has $2500 if you lease. Comes down to money for me but if I could it now I would get a TDI Exec...want to try the diesel. 

My timeline is anytime in the next 15 months. Maybe I will contact Chris Farnham. He deals and shipping to Chicago covered should be about $850-900...still way ahead.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

> .....The slight hesitation when starting due to the glow plugs was new to me. Loved the torque!....


 
It's not hesitation as it is time delay controlled by ambient temperature to provide enough time for glowplugs to heat up. 

On mine I noticed cranking was immediate on +50F and above. Below that with cold engine the start delay comes more into the picture. 

Not bad at all as I still remember the old 123 model 300D Mercedes sedan we had during the dark ages and starting it with its mechanical "pull" leveller to activate the glows was more work orientated than modern diesels with electric start control. 

Botton line is, on cold temperatures there is time delay and it's not as instant as on gasser. 

I haven't drove VR6 but I have 70,000 miles experience with old Audi Q5 with 3.2L V6 (270hp) and there is "noise" difference as gasser have to shift down to get rev's up to get some power to accelerate while diesel starts pulling right away. 

Wife have been sitting on back seat with our 2 years old kiddo and she was the first one saying how quiet is the TDI as on Audi she heard the engine rev's and enhaust sound.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

This is good to know. I shouldn't be concerned with cold starts, then. Tons of TDIs in Canada and we usually get a few deep freezes each winter in Chicago...just not this winter. 

Time is on my side. Will look for the best deal on a TDI Exec. Thanks!


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## rflor (Apr 11, 2000)

fincher said:


> Issue is I prefer the Exec and there is no incentive on the TDI other than the 0.0%. The gasser has $2500 if you lease. Comes down to money for me but if I could it now I would get a TDI Exec...want to try the diesel.


This if you're looking to lease. The 48 month residual on the TDI is 5% higher than the VR6, but it's offset by the lease cash. I'm not sure on the MF, but on the VR6, it comes out to be about 1.4%

I did an overnight test-drive of the VR6 Friday night. I found the acceleration to be as responsive on the T3 as my 2005 V8 T1. More importantly, the wife loved the T3's handling and steering feel as compared to the original T1.

End result..we're trading in a 2010 Murano in favor of a VR6 (once my dealer finds a Canyon Grey one...which I know he'll do in days). 

Woot for me coming back to the VW family!


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

Welcome, back! I like the V6, too. I have the V8 FSI in my T1 so its got slightly more oomph than your '05. Nothing wrong with the V6. I did like the torque of the TDI, though. I still might get the V6 instead of the diesel. The V6 is fine with the T3 being lighter and the 8-speed tranny.

I want all of the gadgets that comes with the Exec!

Interestingly, the TDI Exec I drove was sold to a person who traded in an '04 V8. It was on the lot maybe 10 days. There's another one (sans backup camera) still there.


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## rflor (Apr 11, 2000)

fincher said:


> I want all of the gadgets that comes with the Exec!


Except I can't justify $6k for them, when it's only 20" wheels, keyless entry, Dynaudio, and heated rear seats.

Very frustrating I can't get Dynaudio as an option on the Lux package. Instead, every single freaking T-reg in Chicagoland comes with a trailer hitch I don't need.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

It's about $3900 to jump from Lux to Exec assuming same engine but I agree the premium is still steep. Where did you get your T3? Jennings has a White Lux TDI without hitch in the showroom.


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## rflor (Apr 11, 2000)

fincher said:


> It's about $3900 to jump from Lux to Exec assuming same engine but I agree the premium is still steep. Where did you get your T3? Jennings has a White Lux TDI without hitch in the showroom.


I was coming up with $5500 based on Edmunds pricing, but I will admit I wasn't backing out the retail upcharge. Regardless, it is impossible to defend to the wife. 

I'm getting mine from Liberty VW. Been a loyal customer there for 12 years (2 Jettas, 2 Passats inc a W8, and a T1 T-reg), so they take great care of me both on the sales and service side.

Blech on the white...I know there are Canyon Greys in the area...just gotta let Curt work his magic.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

Never been to Liberty but I know it...I live in Lake County. I get service at Autobarn Mt. Prospect and try to buy from them...2 of my VWs I got from them. Jennings is another good place.

Your wife will like the white...


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## David Cretney (Apr 27, 1999)

Most of the post I read people are asking why anyone would consider a gasser over the diesel- its mainly the other way around. Why would anyone in their right mind by the gasser?

If you are going to complain about upfront cost, then realize that the TDI will have a higher resale when the time comes to get rid of it.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

No doubt the TDI has a better resale. My comment was why the $2500 off of the V6 when leasing only. Also, nothing official yet, but I should have a 2012 TDI Exec by the end of the week. Working on a deal now...tough to find that trim.

I am convinced TDI is the way to go and its worth the extra cost for the power train. I just had to drive both and weigh the costs.


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## breich (Jul 8, 2003)

How do the maintenance costs compare between the two engines, after the carefree maintenance is up. ie oil changes, adblue etc


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## grohgreg (Jun 12, 2011)

fincher said:


> It's about $3900 to jump from Lux to Exec assuming same engine but I agree the premium is still steep.


New or used? When I was shopping for new last year, I settled on the Sport. Reason; Lux was about a $3600 bump (over the Sport), Exec more than a $9300 bump. I heard it's even more than that this year. So that means jumping from the Lux to Exec jump costs more like $5700

//greg//


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

I meant not sticker. It is around $5500 sticker.


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## redealmaker (Sep 22, 2003)

*Chicago dealers*

Fincher...where are you buying from and where do you have your current one serviced? I too live in Chicago and have had terrible luck with Jennings service dept(where I purchsed)...I had one of the first 2004 Treg v8 and it was a lemon. Didn't mind dealing with the repairs as much as the non sense of trying to get a loaner and having the service department fix the problem the first time. I currently drive a Cayenne S and the service is wonderful.


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## Hoosierdub (Nov 17, 2011)

Having a hard time finding a TDI to test drive. I've located a 2010, but that has a 6 speed transmission as opposed to the new 8 speed. Generally speaking, think the drive with the 6 speed would be a pretty close approximation to the 8 speed? I understand the mpg numbers will differ, just want to get a sense for how the TDI drives, having already driven the gasser twice now.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

2010 comes with same engine but (as you wrote) 6 speed AND H/L transfercase, which means it gets tad lower mileage BUT is more offroad worthy than 2011 and newer.

If you are not into serious offroading and "mild" exploring is enough and you want the best mileage then stick with 2011 and newer with 8 speed.

I would love to have both as our 2012 gives amazing mileage but the 2010 would give me the offroad capability I would like to use once a while.

Actually I would rather have current 2012 4motion (without H/L transfercase) with air suspension (air is available in Europe but is not imported to States)


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

redealmaker said:


> Fincher...where are you buying from and where do you have your current one serviced? I too live in Chicago and have had terrible luck with Jennings service dept(where I purchsed)...I had one of the first 2004 Treg v8 and it was a lemon. Didn't mind dealing with the repairs as much as the non sense of trying to get a loaner and having the service department fix the problem the first time. I currently drive a Cayenne S and the service is wonderful.


Deal is done. Purchasing in Milwaukee. Got a fantastic price on the color combo desired. Here is my experience with both dealers in Chicago:

*Jennings:* Very good sales dept. No pressure. The person I deal with is very fair and patient. Service...only went there once for a water pump failure on my '03 Passat. Did not diagnose correctly first time. Then, they lost my key and had to cut a new set for me. Stuff happens and they did right by it. Have not gone there for service since but the Passat was still in the family, and it was serviced there subsequently (they live in Glenview) with no problems.

*Autobarn (Mt. Prospect location):* Sales Dept. is good but you need to ignore the extras placed next to the main sticker. Just gimmicky. I deal with one person there and I like him…bought my first VW from him. Only straight talk. Service Dept. is A-1. Probably the best around. My service person is John Paul. He's been great. They stock most parts. Loaners are no problem with advance appointment; otherwise they get you into Enterprise. Just really good service.

I wanted to purchase from either Jennings or Autobarn Mt. Prospect. Came close at Jennings but I wasn't ready. The one I wanted was purchased the next day. Autobarn has no Execs at the moment. Those are the top two VW dealers in sales in Illinois. No pressure from either place. Long story for another day on how I ended up with a dealer in Milwaukee.

Nice on Cayenne S…get it at The Porsche Exchange in Highland Park?


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## TN Tig 1 (Mar 17, 2010)

If you want to buy out of town Bommarito VW in Hazelwood, Mo. (St. Louis) is great! They also have some pretty good prices. We bought our last VW there and it was really a pleasant experience. 

No pressure, and knowledgable sales staff. Talk to Patrick, he's their internet sales guy.


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## redealmaker (Sep 22, 2003)

I bought it used from my best friends dad, but I have serviced it at The Exchange...I prefer Loeber though. Good luck with you new ride ands make sure you post some pics


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

Will definitely post pics...snowing like crazy today.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

Here are some pics of my new TDI. Waiting for title from Wisconsin so I can put my Chicago Blackhawk plates back on:


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## redealmaker (Sep 22, 2003)

Looks awesome, same color as my 04. Are those tires all season or do you need to get snows?


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

Thanks. All seasons. Goodyear Eagle LS2. Had those in 19s on my '07 V8. Had no issues with them but others may differ.


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## Hoosierdub (Nov 17, 2011)

Sweet. I opted for the gasser. I'm sure I'd love either one.


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