# cheap engine upgrades?



## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

i need some ways to get easy power out of my scirocco...obviously get headers and stuff like that but is there any cheaper ways...i no this is a stupid question but anything will help im hopeing to eventually race my friend he has a 91 eclipse that he thinks is top **** and it would be nice to stop him from bragging








or if anyone knows a good site to buy stuff from that would help too
thanks for the help


_Modified by spike072192 at 11:04 AM 11-22-2009_


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## epjetta (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: cheap engine upgrades? (spike072192)*

if you want to beat him your going to have to start spending money.


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

yeah i kinda figured but i thought id ask do you know if ecu upgrade chips are any good ive been talking to some people about them and they dont like them...are they worth buying


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (spike072192)*

what's the engine management in your scirocco? cis+l? cis-e? there's really no "chipping" of these managements. You could change the fueling under wot with a "power module" that you can buy or make yourself, but the gains aren't going to have you pulling on the eclipse.
we're talking engine swap / doing a hybrid swap.
for a little bit of kick, maybe enough to get you satisfied for the time being and whet your appetite for future mods would be a performance camshaft.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: cheap engine upgrades? (spike072192)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spike072192* »_i need some ways to get easy power out of my scirocco...

Is it an eclipse turbo or non turbo? AWD or 2wd?? Best bet either way is lightening up ur scirroco. Get rid of all ur excess weight that u dont need. You can actually make them really light so ur power to weight ratio is good. Then(and i know im gona get flamed for even recommending this) get urself a nitrous wet kit with maybe a 50-75 shot(up to 100 shot if ur motor is in top shape). This is going to be ur cheapest solution but give u the power u need to beat that POS diamond star. I feel u on this subject as my best friend and neighbor had an AWD TSI talon(eclipse with different name)and i had my GTI growing up and we would go back and forth doing mods to beat each other.


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## joedapper (Oct 6, 2009)

No one said turbo? Just go on ebay and get some boost!


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: cheap engine upgrades? (TheMajic86GTI)*

its a 2wd turbo eclipse i have pretty much all i think of to lighten it up besides my subs and i not sure what else i can take out i guess i need help with that too if you know of more things i can take out (i took out all the ac stuff, back seats washer fliud resivwars) any more ideas i have thought about nitrous but i think im going to wait till i get more power first


_Modified by spike072192 at 1:08 PM 11-23-2009_


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (joedapper)*

ive looked for a tubo kit on ebay and cant find one that would work i dont know much about tubos so im not sure what other turbos would work if you know of one let me know


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

Lets hear what you got in it right now. Im interested in this thread also ^^ What basic upgrades u got?


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*

im kinda ashamed to say this but i havent done anything to it yet







besides making it lighter, soon im going to have a good exaust system and a performace cam but i just got the car a while ago and havent had that much money to put into it


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (joedapper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joedapper* »_No one said turbo? Just go on ebay and get some boost!

No one said turbo becuz he said he wants cheap HP. Boost is really expensive and time consuming even when u do know wut ur doing.....
Ok here's the deal and on the cheap. Ur car has 8.5:1 pistons. Go to ur local junkyard or even here in the classifieds and get u some drop in 10:1 pistons(u can still run pump gas) to raise ur CR and some new rings, And thats assuming all ur bearings are ok. Deck the head and get a 3 or 5 angle valve job wutever u can afford and a TT 288 cam(a little erratic but still streetable). A wet n2o kit with a 75 shot and ull be beating that eclipse all day long.....This is close to the combo i have now and my car weighs 1920lbs with me in it and my last 1/4 mile run was a 13.79, so u should be like mid to high 14's if u can get it close to the weight. A stock 2wd turbo eclipse will be lucky to run 15's. Just remember reducing the weight is free..Cant really help u here as ive never owned a scirroco. Just be patient and ull get a deal on everything..and even when not running the n2o ull still have a quick N/A scirroco with that combo...
Used 10:1 pistons $20-40.00 (look in vortex classifieds or junkyard)
new rings $50.00
Head work $150-200.00...
New TT288 cam $225.00 (look in vortex classifieds ive seen them for $100)
Used single fogger wet kit from $150-250.00


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

(I'm not hijacking the thread spike, just interested like. And I got a with a similar prob







)
So Maj, what will the total HP gain be ? I do not see CAI or exhaust so does this mean not to really go that way?


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

alright thanks ill keep a look out for those pistons and if i do get them would i need to run premium gas or would it still work with regular i also have a 87 golf gti do those have 10:1 pistons or do they have the same 

_Modified by spike072192 at 5:03 PM 11-23-2009_


_Modified by spike072192 at 5:03 PM 11-23-2009_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_
So Maj, what will the total HP gain be ? 

Not really sure..every motor behaves different...without the n20 maybe anywhere from 15-30hp increase....

_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_ I do not see CAI or exhaust so does this mean not to really go that way? 

Exhaust is always a plus but not needed and its expensive. i guess on the cheap the stock dual pipe(if u dont have it already), remove cat(if emission laws allow, or just hollow it out) and have a good free flowing muffler, but even this will run u a minimum of $200+ if u cant do it urself..


_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 7:45 PM 11-23-2009_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (spike072192)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spike072192* »_alright thanks ill keep a look out for those pistons and if i do get them would i need to run premium gas or would it still work with regular 

regular would be fine for d/d as long as u dont advance ur timing to much and when running the n20 retard timing and use premium only

_Quote, originally posted by *spike072192* »_i also have a 87 golf gti do those have 10:1 pistons or do they have the same

Is it a GTi 16v or the golf GT 8v? The GT 8v has the 10:1 pistons


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

Ah so its just espensive..And how about Cold Air or Short Ram intake?


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*

its a gti 16v


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_Ah so its just espensive..And how about Cold Air or Short Ram intake? 

For the CIS system, K&N Filter($45) and swiss cheese box(free) and some run a 3" flex tube from the grille to the box...
For the digi's just remove ur box, plug the vacuum lines and attach a cone filter($25-60) straight to it.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (spike072192)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spike072192* »_its a gti 16v

if u were to put the pistons from the 16v u'll have 14:1 CR...To high for a d/d, u'll need to run race gas all the time..


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

how do we know what pistons we currently have?
How exactly do different pistons change ur CR, just maybe deeper or tighter or? 92 octane not enough for 14:1 ?


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## joedapper (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_how do we know what pistons we currently have?
How exactly do different pistons change ur CR, just maybe deeper or tighter or? 92 octane not enough for 14:1 ?

Because certain years/engines came with specific stuff. We're not talking GM or Ford here, where depending on the year you can have any one of 5 possible engines and 4 possible transmissions, certain year f150s have 7 different brake systems. I know that for my '81 1.7 i have 8.2:1 CR.
I found that info here: http://www.cabby-info.com/engine.htm
And if you know what engine you have, if its the same as one that came in a golf/cabriolet/caddy what ever, then you'll have the same data. Im sure even wikipedia might have some info on VW engines that you can get an estimate from..yep they do...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_petrol_engines


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

by swiss cheese box do you mean cut a bunch of holes in the side of the box and if you did that wouldnt it be pointless to put a piping up to the grille because it wouldnt be sucking as much air from the pipe if there were holes in the box


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (spike072192)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spike072192* »_by swiss cheese box do you mean cut a bunch of holes in the side of the box and if you did that wouldnt it be pointless to put a piping up to the grille because it wouldnt be sucking as much air from the pipe if there were holes in the box

Usually its either or.....some do the holes, some do the tube to the front....


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_how do we know what pistons we currently have?


On ur motors vin it starts with 2 letters...This is wut tells u wut motor u have and u can get the info from that on the internals....And thats assuming its stock and no one has messed with it...

_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_92 octane not enough for 14:1 ?

Definitely NOT!!...maybe something like 110 octane or u'll ping like a mother...


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheMajic86GTI* »_
Usually its either or.....some do the holes, some do the tube to the front....

is there one better than the other or are they about the same and for those piston if i find some am i going to have to worry about diameter size or are they all the same


_Modified by spike072192 at 4:39 PM 11-24-2009_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (spike072192)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spike072192* »_

is there one better than the other or are they about the same 

Its mostly preference, heres a thread with good info and also has pics of my box....
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4594883

_Quote, originally posted by *spike072192* »_ for those piston if i find some am i going to have to worry about diameter size or are they all the same


Pretty much any golf or jetta 8v from 87-92 has the 10:1 80mm pistons u need. If 85 or 86 make sure its a GTi or GLi model with either the HT or RD engine.


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

So can I assume with my 92 mk2 i have the 10:1 pistons? (afaik they are stock but who knows what whopi doop had in there) 
What is the highest CR u can go on 92 octane?
And what gas should be used with the 10:1 CR ?


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

alright thanks a lot i think i found someone with some your a life saver


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_ 
What is the highest CR u can go on 92 octane?

11:1 is gona be the highest without adding any booster additives...

_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_
And what gas should be used with the 10:1 CR ?

You can get away with 87 octane as long as it set on stock timing and even then it'll ping a bit.

_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_So can I assume with my 92 mk2 i have the 10:1 pistons? 

Yes


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

Hm where can I pull 10.5 or 11 CR stons? 
(10 is prob enough but Im thinking of rebuilding anyhow so might aswell up my my cr..)
I aswell have looked at the 288 cam but is it worth it? 

And Maj? Is this worth buying http://www.atlanticspeed.com/p...tails
I figure I could pull the bottle someplace else ^^


_Modified by JoggerNot at 12:37 PM 11-25-2009_


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## joedapper (Oct 6, 2009)

not to thread jack but i have 8.2:1 and my door plate says i need to run 91 octane in it. weird


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (joedapper)*

91 ron?


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_Hm where can I pull 10.5 or 11 CR stons? 
(10 is prob enough but Im thinking of rebuilding anyhow so might aswell up my my cr..)

Not going to be able to pull those anywhere..unless u buy aftermarket pistons..To reach the 10.5:1 or 11:1 goal u can shave the head or a combo of shaving the head and block...

_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_I aswell have looked at the 288 cam but is it worth it? 


worth it compared to wut? To ur stock yes definitely!!

_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_
And Maj? Is this worth buying http://www.atlanticspeed.com/p...tails
I figure I could pull the bottle someplace else ^^
 Thats just a purge kit...Do u have a wet kit already and u want to add this?


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

I have the 266 (or 270) cam
k 10:1 sounds a whole lot better.
Nope. So as u can tell I know jack about wet kits ^^ possibly provide a kinky to where can purchase one? I get how they work and all that I just don't understand all these components >.>


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_I have the 266 (or 270) cam


the 288 has a bit more power to be made from but the 266 is alot better than stock

_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_Nope. So as u can tell I know jack about wet kits ^^ possibly provide a kinky to where can purchase one? I get how they work and all that I just don't understand all these components >.>

You would need something like this...a used one would run about half the price...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ories


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

How worse is the idle with the 288 than the 266? Id "like" to keep my car also as a use of transportation







 So if the 288 messes me all up then I might stick with my current one.
Would my TT performance chip need to be re-burned after this? Or could I get away with having it w/ my current chip ?
And what exactly was that thing that I found?
Thanks











_Modified by JoggerNot at 2:52 PM 11-26-2009_


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*

joggernot, your head has hydraulic lifters.


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

I know..TT has the 288 for hydra also 
http://www.techtonicstuning.co...9.068


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_How worse is the idle with the 288 than the 266? Id "like" to keep my car also as a use of transportation







So if the 288 messes me all up then I might stick with my current one.

I went from a 268 to a 288 and the idle is not much of a difference. Gets a little bouncy more often but to me its no big deal....

If u change cams ull have to reburn...I would also ask TT how the chip will behave with n2o and if u have to do anything extra while running it...

_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_
And what exactly was that thing that I found?


Its a purge kit...Its used to get any air bubble out of the line so u can get consistent runs...


_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 5:04 AM 11-27-2009_


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## stick90 (Feb 28, 2008)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JoggerNot* »_How worse is the idle with the 288 than the 266? Id "like" to keep my car also as a use of transportation







So if the 288 messes me all up then I might stick with my current one.
Would my TT performance chip need to be re-burned after this? Or could I get away with having it w/ my current chip ?
And what exactly was that thing that I found?
Thanks








_Modified by JoggerNot at 2:52 PM 11-26-2009_

i put a TT 288 in my rabbit, it would try to idle at about 4-500. Would be a pita on the street I think. I'm in the process of putting dual sidedrafts on now, it idle's much better with carbs than cis


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## MissHood (May 9, 2004)

*Re: (stick90)*

I don't enjoy the TT website because I don't see any pricing








maybe I'm just blind, but I've been searching for a Higher cam setup for my 8v solid lifter motor. I'm leaning more towards a 270 cam. Does anyone have any feedback to talk me into buying a 288 instead








As far as cheep engine upgrades I honestly don't think they're is such a thing. I plan on keeping my cabby so I plan on dropping the money into it.







My advice is to Keep researching until your sure and confident on your decision.


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## stick90 (Feb 28, 2008)

*Re: (BeatBox_kid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BeatBox_kid* »_I don't enjoy the TT website because I don't see any pricing








maybe I'm just blind, but I've been searching for a Higher cam setup for my 8v solid lifter motor. I'm leaning more towards a 270 cam. Does anyone have any feedback to talk me into buying a 288 instead








As far as cheep engine upgrades I honestly don't think they're is such a thing. I plan on keeping my cabby so I plan on dropping the money into it.







My advice is to Keep researching until your sure and confident on your decision.

Your blind. The prices are listed next to the parts 
I'd buy the 288 just cause its bigger.


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## MissHood (May 9, 2004)

*Re: (stick90)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stick90* »_
Your blind. The prices are listed next to the parts 
I'd buy the 288 just cause its bigger.


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (BeatBox_kid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BeatBox_kid* »_I don't enjoy the TT website because I don't see any pricing









you have to scroll to the right i thought the same thing when i saw the site


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## GeekWagens (Oct 7, 2009)

*Re: (spike072192)*

screw it! Just go all out and get a 320 Cam


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re:*

so i just talked to my friend with the eclipse and he is scared that i might have i faster car than him when im done with all of this 
thanks for all of your help guys


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## Autocross83gti (Nov 16, 2008)

*Re: Re: (spike072192)*

Don't tell them anything. just go out and prove it.


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: Re: (Autocross83gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Autocross83gti* »_Don't tell them anything. just go out and prove it.

yeah i probably shouldnt have told him because he keeps trying to tell me that i shouldnt do it because he says my engine wont be able to handle it and that i shouldnt trust you guys to help me...i dont really know what he ment by that


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Does he know anything about vw engines?








I piss my buddy off all the time beating his eclipse with my jetta.








Steve-


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (BSD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BSD* »_Does he know anything about vw engines?








I piss my buddy off all the time beating his eclipse with my jetta.








Steve-

no he has no idea what kind potential volkswagens have, i cant wait to see his face when i beat him 
ive always wanted to find a jetta... ill get one soon haha


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## JoggerNot (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

So what all have you decided to do then spike? Going with the bigger cam then?







When you race, get a video camera and tape it to your dash so we can watch the race ^^ smoke em plox http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

----

And sorry to keep grabbing the wheel but I figure since Im here:
When we are talkin bad idle, what exactly does that mean?
Like 300-12000 (my bad idle screw) cuz I got a jetta from a dude and he got it from a dude who apparently decked it all out with crap. The dude I got it from doesn't know what cam or anything it has in it but it does have the adj cam sprocket so mby has something more than stock?
Can I easily tell what cam it has in it if I pull the top cover of the head? 

_Modified by JoggerNot at 9:12 PM 11-30-2009_


_Modified by JoggerNot at 9:13 PM 11-30-2009_


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## spike072192 (Oct 2, 2009)

*Re: (JoggerNot)*



JoggerNot said:


> So what all have you decided to do then spike? Going with the bigger cam then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheMajic86GTI* »_
No one said turbo becuz he said he wants cheap HP. Boost is really expensive and time consuming even when u do know wut ur doing.....
Ok here's the deal and on the cheap. Ur car has 8.5:1 pistons. Go to ur local junkyard or even here in the classifieds and get u some drop in 10:1 pistons(u can still run pump gas) to raise ur CR and some new rings, And thats assuming all ur bearings are ok. Deck the head and get a 3 or 5 angle valve job wutever u can afford and a TT 288 cam(a little erratic but still streetable). A wet n2o kit with a 75 shot and ull be beating that eclipse all day long.....
Used 10:1 pistons $20-40.00 (look in vortex classifieds or junkyard)
new rings $50.00
Head work $150-200.00...
New TT288 cam $225.00 (look in vortex classifieds ive seen them for $100)
Used single fogger wet kit from $150-250.00


Plus rod bearings, gasket set...may as well balance the stuff too...but all that would cost the same as a turbo kit and make less power.








Though, the N/A way would be simpler. Go 10:1, shave the head for about 10.5:1, 288 cam, gasket match the maifolds, good intake and exhaust...should make for a fun car.
Turbo would be a little more work, but would make more power.



_Modified by L8 APEKS at 11:40 AM 12-3-2009_


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