# Which is better overall: R8 or R10?



## chernaudi (Oct 6, 2006)

Well probably never know to which extent that one is superior/inferior to the other, but I'll ask anyways. I know that the R10 has the potiential to acellerate faster(about 300 or so more ft/lbs of torque), but that's in a perfect world.
Both have about the same top speed, but again, the R10 should in a perfect world reach it faster.
Both seem to have about the same amount of downforce. But that's with the R10 not yet having the high downforce components that the R8 had late in it's factory life.
It seems that the R10 should in theory have the measure of the R8. However, there are some unanswered questions(that probably won't be answered, at least soon). 
Like how much did the R8 have left in it for R&D(which I think is a lot). How much does the R10 have left in that area(which defininty is a lot)? And the big one: How do they compare in handling, due to above all else the 10 or so inch difference in wheelbase, and with the R10 being heavier? 
Anyone have any inference on this? 


_Modified by chernaudi at 2:20 PM 4-5-2007_


----------



## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (chernaudi)*

No way to tell and its like comparing apples and oranges. Two different cars built to two totally different rule sets.
Its like asking which is better, the Porsche 917 or the 962. No way to tell, two different cars built to two different sets of rules.


----------



## chernaudi (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (.:RDriver)*

I thought that only the aero rules were the major difference. I guess I should've taken in to account that the two cars are so different due to the engines. But I was always under the impression that the chassis regs(aside from the 2nd roll bar) were the same as the old LMP900/675 cars.
I also guessed the the teams/car builders in general gained back what the rules makes tried to take away as far as downforce and the like-and then some. I though that comparing the R8 and R10 was more like compairing the 956 and 962, rather than the 917 and 962 example you gave. 
But then again, the 956 and 962 were the same car aside from engine capacity and wheelbase, unlike the R8 and R10, of which one is a gasoline car, and ones a diesel, and all the considerations that go along with those facts.
And speaking of fuels(and not to get too far off topic), if Audi used the 3.6 TFSI V8 in the R10, would they be using the E10 gas/ethanol blend from the start(like most of the teams) or do like most of the Porsche teams, and not switch over until IMSA requires it(which is after Houston)? Probably a dumb question, and pretty much irrelevant given the fact that the R10 is a diesel, but what would Audi do for the first few ALMS races if the diesel option wasn't there?


----------



## 16v (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (chernaudi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chernaudi* »_
But then again, the 956 and 962 were the same car aside from engine capacity and wheelbase


there are a few more differences than that


----------



## chernaudi (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (16v)*

I guess well never really know. We're probably never gonna see them on the same racetrack together. They differ in the rules enough that a 100% direct comparison to see which is equal is basically impossible. And the way that their built(the R8 being a traditional monocoque with semi-stressed body panels, and the R10 being mostly a unitbody monocoque), and having two different engines with very different properties, A direct comparison is impossible.
I mean, I could try them(yeah, right!














), but I'd suck so bad at driving them, it would be a waste of time. And I don't think that having one of their million dollar R8s and one of their god know how expensive R10s driven by an unproven, unlicesned driver would sit well with Audi anyways(I just watch the races and read about the cars, not drive them).
I guess all we can go on is what the drivers say about them.


----------



## R10_Telemetry (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (chernaudi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chernaudi* »_We're probably never gonna see them on the same racetrack together.

Keep that thought till later in the season...
Here's a hint: "50th Anniv of Sebring"


----------



## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (R10_Telemetry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R10_Telemetry* »_
Keep that thought till later in the season...
Here's a hint: "50th Anniv of Sebring"

Umm, that was several years ago.


----------



## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (.:RDriver)*

The rules are different enough to not make it a fair comparison. You have differences such as a different splitter in the front, higher side pods, the double roll hoop, the different rear end behind the wheels and I'm not sure what else.
But the bottom line is its different enough not to be a comparison. Sure, they may have made back most of what was lost due to rules, but what if they had developed the R8 to the same degree? You simply do not know what the car is/was capable of in comparison to the R10.
Unless they are built to the same rules, its just not fair.
You can arguably say the R10 is a better car since its running faster lap times and gets better fuel economy at the same time. But again, different rules and we dont know if the they had kept updating the R8 whether it would be at the same or faster lap times as the R10.


----------



## R10_Telemetry (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (.:RDriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:RDriver* »_Umm, that was several years ago. 


That was a hint - do your research!

_Quote, originally posted by *.:RDriver* »_You simply do not know what the car is/was capable of in comparison to the R10...and we dont know if the they had kept updating the R8 whether it would be at the same or faster lap times as the R10.

Actually, yes we do.


----------



## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (R10_Telemetry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R10_Telemetry* »_
That was a hint - do your research!

The 50th anniversary of Sebring was in 2002. The first race was held in 1952. If its some technicality like the track wasnt an official track till 1957 or something like that, there is no indication of it. Also there is also nothing listed on Sebring's schedule for some kind of "50th anniversary" event or anything like that this year.
So, if I'm wrong about the dates, please educate me as to exactly what 50th anniversary will be coming up later in 2007.

_Quote, originally posted by *R10_Telemetry* »_
Actually, yes we do.

Actually, I doubt you really do because I'm quite sure that Audi has not been continually researching and updating the R8 to get the absolute maximum performance out of the car. 
I'm sure Audi knows the capabilities of the car as it last stood, but IF the R10 was not in development and Audi continued to develop the R8, it would not be in the same place as it was two years ago.
Actually, why dont you reveal who you are? You often talk in ambiguities that anyone on the net could say and claim to be a team member. Why dont you give us something to prove who you are so we can actually believe what you say. Who was the Audi photographer at Sebring and St. Pete?


----------



## R10_Telemetry (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (.:RDriver)*

You really are hopeless...


----------



## 16v (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (R10_Telemetry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R10_Telemetry* »_You really are hopeless...

Tim Crete posts here?


----------



## 16v (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (R10_Telemetry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R10_Telemetry* »_
Keep that thought till later in the season...
Here's a hint: "50th Anniv of Sebring"








I already have a 50th Anniv six pack of Coke and poster


----------



## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (R10_Telemetry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R10_Telemetry* »_You really are hopeless...

And....
Why dont you educate us. Prove me wrong. Stop the ambiguity. It wont take much at all to prove you know what you are talking about.
Explain what you mean by the 50th anniversary when that was 5 years ago.


----------



## R10_Telemetry (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (.:RDriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:RDriver* »_
Explain what you mean by the 50th anniversary when that was 5 years ago.

They had a reunion of previous winners at the 50th anniversary @ Sebring. And what other race is having an anniversary this year? The current word is that Dr. Don has plans to do the same at Petit Le Mans, including having the cars on the track together. Therefore, in response to chernaudi's post, there's a distinct possibility that we'll see the R8 and R10 together on the same racetrack this year. I am continually ambiguous because it's boring for me to just give all of the answers outright. It doesn't take much for those who are really curious to read between the lines, do some research, and figure it out.


----------



## 16v (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (R10_Telemetry)*

I think chernaudi was speaking to them racing one another, not parading


----------



## chernaudi (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (16v)*

Granted, it may be the only time the 2 types of cars are on the same track together. But I'm with Doug(if I may refer to you as such, and if so, my name is Sean, so were equal on those terms). I'd rather see a R8 and a R10 race eachother. But it's never gonna happen. 
Other than parts supply for restorations/repairs on those that do demo runs/vintage races, there's no factory support for the R8 anymore. Audi Sport/Champion Racing also didn't file a waiver that they did last year that allowed the R8 to be raced without modifing it to allow the use of the HANS device.
Also, under the current regs, Audi doesn't want to embarrass their racing branch by the R8 being beaten by the LMP2 cars. Or worse, having it beat the R10 for LMP1/overall wins-even if the finish is as close as it was between the two R10s at St Pete(which is part of why privateers buy customer cars rather than buy last year's factory cars-the factories don't want to be embarrassed by privateers strugling, or worse, beating the factory teams on a regular basis).
Bottom line: An R10 and a R8 won't ever race eachother. Thus, no proformance compairson can be made, which(as Jimmy has said), won't really be accurate anyways due to the differing regs to which the cars are built to.


----------



## Le Mans Champ (Dec 14, 2005)

And in addition, I believe that If you race two cars together at the same time, there are other factors involved, namely the drivers.
Theres too much open for that kind of experiment to prove much, my suggestion is just to closely examine qualifying times for the two cars when the R10's run on all the tracks. That would be probably the best indicator of overall performance that is available to us.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: (Le Mans Champ)*

I've asked this same question. With both cars still competing last year, I'd wondered if they'd run an R10 and let privateers run R8s, which also might help populate the LM P1 field. Short answer from my contact at Audi was no. From a racing perspective, the R8 is old technology, and as such they likely wouldn't be pleased to see it beat the R10 for whatever reason. 
R10 is probably more superior aerodynamically and from a fuel efficiency standpoint. However, and correct me if I'm wrong you guys in the know, they had to develop the car for new rules such as ease of changing components, so pit repairs I don't think can be as quick to make should there be a failure. I think they used to be able to swap the whole tranny in about 15 minutes.
All that said, there's a Swiss team running LMP2 this year in the LMES with Audi V8s, rumored to be developed from the R8. It's not an Audi chassis obviously, but interesting to consider as they are working with Audi Sport. I don't know if they'll run Le Mans or not, but I'm monitoring the LMES and its news for this car and for Spyker, and we'll run news if there is any.


----------



## Le Mans Champ (Dec 14, 2005)

Yeah I think it's the Credit Suisse Spirit team or something like that. It's an actual R8 engine as far as I know, and at last time I checked the entry lists for La Sarthe, they'll be there. That'll be interesting to see who's wearing what hat in that paddock.


----------



## chernaudi (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: (Le Mans Champ)*

Hopefully, there'll be some photos at this site when some stuff comes up.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: (chernaudi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chernaudi* »_Hopefully, there'll be some photos at this site when some stuff comes up.

There will. I don't know if I'll be at Petit personally, but we'll be covering it, along with Le Mans.


----------



## R10_Telemetry (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (.:RDriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:RDriver* »_Who was the Audi photographer at Sebring and St. Pete?









I hope for your sake that you weren't implying something with that remark.


----------



## .:RDriver (Oct 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (R10_Telemetry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R10_Telemetry* »_
I hope for your sake that you weren't implying something with that remark.


Nope, just trying to give you something the average person wouldnt know to validate yourself because I know who they were.
But, George has vouched for you and thats good enough for me. I just hope you can actually contribute in the future rather than just being "if you only knew what I knew."
I understand there is stuff you cant share, I get that as well, but its usually better off not saying anything at that point.


----------



## 16v (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (.:RDriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:RDriver* »_I understand there is stuff you cant share, I get that as well, but its usually better off not saying anything at that point.

just like me and mobile phones


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (.:RDriver)*

Anyone on this site who posts from Audi or as a contractor of Audi does so with an arm tied behind their back figuratively. They have to constantly think twice about what they say, and how that might reflect on them proffessionally with their job, ramifications it could have, etc. For reference, I personally appreciate greatly the presence of any of the folks working on that side, and hope we all have a little patience with that knowing that they can't just go off and post whatever the heck they want.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Which is better overall: R8 or R10? (R10_Telemetry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R10_Telemetry* »_
I hope for your sake that you weren't implying something with that remark.

He was questioning whether you're actually with Audi Sport North America. As I'm sure you can imagine, folks can say they are anything, and there's no great way to check validity. Of course, we've spoken off forum and I explained to him that there's no question of validity here. I think Jimmy, especially as an admin for our motorsport site SpeedArena, has had his share of interacting with folks in our other motorsports forums who might present themselves as more involved with the racing and the teams than they might be. Makes you cast a cynical eye for good reason. That's not the case here, and I've informed him of that.


----------

