# Custom billet 3071 and existing apr stage 3 hardware



## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

Car is not finished but things are looking promising so I decided to post prior to its completion. Instead of using the regular players on the market for fsi engine I decided to go off the beaten path. I choose a shop that is well respected and had experience with direct injected engines of VAG and BMW cars. 

I was looking for more power and did not want to build the head. Initally I was just going to get the car retuned but after a recent track event I was worried that I had damaged my existing turbo as it was starting to whine on spool up. There was still life left in the turbo but didnt want to take the risk. I had the choice of rebuilding the turbo or going for something larger with a billet wheel. The downtime was less with a new turbo so it was a no brainer for me. If there was any time to do this, now was the perfect time. 

You can follow the progress in this tread. 

The name of the shop doing the work is called European performance Labs (EPL), they are located in CT. 

Here is some more info from their site. http://www.eplabs.net/2010/10/26/50...on-hta-3071-turbo-for-your-apr-stage-iii-car/


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

350whp on 100oct program and 3071? 

You were only making 300whp before?


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

I was waiting for this. Epl says the figures are off when the graph them and actual numbers are higher.... On mustang , two different ones, highest numbers put down were 330/308.


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

EPL is a good choice for sure. I heard about this project they were doing for you. Was curious to see the out come. Would love to see an in car vid of rpms vs boost. If the boost onset is within 100-200 rpms of the 28/71 then this might be the path I take. Stock pistons I assume?


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

Also, I did know that you are in fairfield county. We should chat sometime. I am working on getting a little gathering/cruise/dyno day for BT guys.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

I have upgraded rods only. Have no problem posting videos.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

I am actually from Long Island NY. But hit me up I love to drive.


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

they're a bunch of good dudes over there :thumbup:


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## TechnikSLR (Jul 30, 2008)

in for video. this should be nutty


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

Yea, wish we had same car, then we could have done video of a few pulls. Sending you a Pm now.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

sabba said:


> Car is not finished but things are looking promising so I decided to post prior to its completion. Instead of using the regular players on the market for fsi engine I decided to go off the beaten path. I choose a shop that is well respected and had experience with direct injected engines of VAG and BMW cars.
> 
> I was looking for more power and did not want to build the head. Initally I was just going to get the car retuned but after a recent track event I was worried that I had damaged my existing turbo as it was starting to whine on spool up. There was still life left in the turbo but didnt want to take the risk. I had the choice of rebuilding the turbo or going for something larger with a billet wheel. The downtime was less with a new turbo so it was a no brainer for me. If there was any time to do this, now was the perfect time.
> 
> ...


 
Nick Im glad there some postive progress with your car keep us posted that turbo with more bosst should make around 375-385 whp.I do think that EPL baseline number on the 2871 is alittle off only because the turbo was hurt like you mention, but non the less this show's there more hardware and software option for use BT FSI in the future .Hopefully this will get APR ass in gear and deliver Stage 3 customers and affordable upgrade path that was talked about 2 years ago instead of building 20K stage 4 upgrades . Whats the old saying if you dont take care of your csr someone else will LOL Bob.G 

Nick below a dyno chart from back in the day when JC car ATP turbo kit with 3071 external wastegate and Revo BT SW 93 octane tune and my APR stage 3 93 octane tune . 

We dyno on the same day same dyno 1/2 hour apart Bob.G


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

sabba said:


> but after a recent track event I was worried that I had damaged my existing turbo as it was starting to whine on spool up.


 
I'm confused. 

Is it 50+ HP/TQ over our existing turbo or a damaged turbo?


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## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I'm confused.
> 
> Is it 50+ HP/TQ over our existing turbo or a damaged turbo?


 Im confused as well.


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

sabba said:


> I was waiting for this. Epl says the figures are off when the graph them and actual numbers are higher.... On mustang , two different ones, highest numbers put down were 330/308.


 Didn't mean to be the fun police just curious. Im sure with your new hardware the car is capable of alot more, I just wouldn't be excited at the peak number...right now. What kind of software are you thinking about going to?


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I'm confused.
> 
> Is it 50+ HP/TQ over our existing turbo or a damaged turbo?


 The graph of the 2871 pull was done previously when my car was getting the aquamist system set up to run optimally with the 100 oct file. In other words, it was done on APR's turbo when it was in optimal condition. I had the car dyno'd at Hudson Historic over the summer again on a mustang dyno and put similar numbers down ... 330/295. 

The increase in 50whp/tq was done last week after they switched turbo's. 

Please feel free to ask any more questions...i'm bored at work doing an overnight shift. 

Hope this clarifies things.... 

I know the numbers are low comparitively speaking to APR's numbers, but I would not get side tracked but this. Instead focus on the gain in power for just switching the turbo. If I really did get this much of a gain from the turbo swap i can't wait to see the numbers once tuned. 

There are a lot of cool stuff in the woodworks for the FSI platform in terms of big turbo applications. Just thought I would contribute my experience thus far .... 

promise to keep you updated


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

sabba said:


> The graph of the 2871 pull was done previously when my car was getting the aquamist system set up to run optimally with the 100 oct file. In other words, it was done on APR's turbo when it was in optimal condition. * I had the car dyno'd at Hudson Historic * over the summer again on a mustang dyno and put similar numbers down ... 330/295.
> 
> The increase in 50whp/tq was done last week after they switched turbo's.
> 
> ...


 I live 10 minutes from them and you didnt vist LOL . 

Nick We need a Dyno Day with all the Northeast BT FSI on the same dyno on the same day so we can compare not just the number but the power band , spool,logs, etc 

Like I said above Great that other companys ( like EPL and Eurodyne ) are showing some progress in software side of the FSI platform .:thumbup: Bob.G


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

rracerguy717 said:


> I live 10 minutes from them and you didnt vist LOL .
> 
> Nick We need a Dyno Day with all the Northeast BT FSI on the same dyno on the same day so we can compare not just the number but the power band , spool,logs, etc
> 
> Like I said above Great that other companys ( like EPL and Eurodyne ) are showing some progress in software side of the FSI platform .:thumbup: Bob.G


 Good idea Bob, i just need some advanced aka a couple months notice so i can put the motor back in the car and get it at an acceptable point  Every dyno day i see posted is always last minute and i can never get the parts i need to get the car back together in time. I say lets use ffe's dyno because it seems like everyone who dynos there always gets better numbers.... i wonder why:laugh:


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

Stay tuned guys. I am going to organize a dyno day/cruise in the coming month. I am going to see Tony at Epl tomorrow to see if he will open up on a Sunday next month if I can get a good number of ppl to show up. I was hoping to do something on the 14th or after.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

sabba said:


> The graph of the 2871 pull was done previously when my car was getting the aquamist system set up to run optimally with the 100 oct file. In other words, it was done on APR's turbo when it was in optimal condition.


 Oh well it makes sense now. The 50/50 gain by simply swapping out the turbo with no calibration change was a bunch of bologna as suspected. After speaking with EPL I was lead to believe the car was dynoed and w/o changing anything, except the turbo, then it was dynoed again and suddenly showed a magical large increase in power, which quite frankly, did not make much sense. I had no idea the graphs were months apart and while the car was strapped down to attempt to setup your w/m. That was in the middle of the summer, right, and I'm sure you went though pull after pull after pull, heatsoaking the car to get it setup correctly. Also, if I remember correctly, you were on the wrong file at the time so you did not have the 100 octane tune. Now with everything dialed in and in the colder northern fall weather, naturally everything was cooled down and much more favorable, especially if the car was cool enough to yank out the turbo and throw on a new one before dynoing again. 

That's not to say there are not more efficient compressor wheel designs on the market, it's just not going to make a huge difference w/o a calibration change. The software should see higher load levels with increased mass airflow and as such will simply pull back boost or close the throttle to keep everything where it it's programmed to be. 

Anyways, good luck with your car! As I said at waterfest, you could have always run some logs and we would have advanced the timing for you a bit more if you wanted.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

Arin you make a potentially valid point but you have lots of speculations in your last posts as well as a what I believe to be a flat out lie. 

The car was tuned at EPL's shop in May to get the w/m set up. I am not exactly sure where within this dyno session these numbers were obtained, you are quite possibly correct that it was recorded with a heat soaked car but again that is just speculation. Funny you mention that the car did not have 100oct file prior to this time ... from what I was told by my dealer, the car did in fact did have the file installed it was just that the numbers/logs were comparatively soft. 

I could be wrong as I was also told that there were no HP/TQ runs during this session in May it was just to check knock levels. This sounded strange to me, but i just went with it. Only at a later date did I learn of the 100oct file confussion and the numbers I put down. Ironically I did a dyno day in the dead of summer at HH's mustang dyno and put down very similar numbers. 

Requardless prior to installing the methanol system there was a noticable difference in 93 and 100oct files. In fact I did some logs sent them to you to confirm that I had 100oct file and you confirmed in a email saying everything looked on target back in February.  

I don't want to turn this into a pissing match or a he said, she said type battle ... You are very persuasive and good at what you do. I have much respect for APR and the products you develop. If it was not for you guys I would not be the car enthusiast I am becoming today. :thumbup: 

While the time of year and the conditions this data was obtained were different the fact that the car shows any substantial gain on just a turbo swap is impressive and looks very promising to me and any stage 3 owner looking for "a stage 4 build" aka more performace. The jury is still out ... opcorn: 

I took this risk with EPL because you infact told me that APR's engineers would *NOT* bench tune my file and up the timing, in fact I tried numerous times to get this done and I always received the same response whether it was from you or one of your dealers. 

Finally when we talked over phone after waterfest I asked you what APR's tuning strategies would be to meet my goals. We discussed aftermarket cams and retune would be the route to go. This would be the way to go based on the results of the TTS stage 3 car and hanks multi thousand dollar stage 4 built. Honestly, I just didn't feel comfortable spending money on something without empirical data...yeah these cars showed significant gains over our cars but how much will my car show with just a cam upgrade? This you could not answer, and in my eyes, I refused to spend my hard earned money on your speculations and experiences with totally different cars. 

I am really upset that now you make a blanked statement in a public forum (and force me to make this post) that I could have had a revision of file without physically bringing my car to you as this was the very thing i have beed trying to accomplish unsuccessfully. I recollect nothing of the said conversation you stated above. However it was nice meeting you and I appreciated the bottle of water you gave me at waterfest. 

Nick


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

sabba said:


> Arin you make a potentially valid point but you have lots of speculations in your last posts as well as a what I believe to be a flat out lie.
> 
> The car was tuned at EPL's shop in May to get the w/m set up. I am not exactly sure where within this dyno session these numbers were obtained, you are quite possibly correct that it was recorded with a heat soaked car but again that is just speculation. Funny you mention that the car did not have 100oct file prior to this time ... from what I was told by my dealer, the car did in fact did have the file installed it was just that the numbers/logs were comparatively soft.


 Nick, if you remember, the first time you went to get the 100 octane file, it was not on the server so the dealer mistakenly grabbed the 6MT files and not the DSG files. Some of the 'less purchased stuff' such as a 115P S0010 DSG 100 octane stage 3 file, only gets ported when someone requests it. You sent me logs and said "Let me tell you I love this stage 3 kit and I love this file!" so I looked, saw no timing pull, saw boost was on target and everything looked fine so I figured all was well and said "Looks good!". 

Months later your dealer and or you contacted me and said you were not seeing much of a difference between the 93 and 100 octane file. If I recall correctly I looked at the server logs and sure enough, you were flashed with the wrong file. You had the 6MT file. I had the engineers make the 100 octane file for your ECU and DSG transmission. This should have made a difference. 

You later asked if we could make you a water meth or 109 octane specific file. I told you I'm not sure we would be comfortable doing that w/o testing it. I asked what you specifically were looking for... how much more advance. It ended with me telling you I didn't think it was a safe and smart idea and you said you understood. 

At waterfest I spoke with you and IIRC one of the engineers was present at the time. He then told me we could probably do something for you. We also discussed the route with cams. I don't think I heard back from you after that point. 






> I could be wrong as I was also told that there were no HP/TQ runs during this session in May it was just to check knock levels. This sounded strange to me, but i just went with it. Only at a later date did I learn of the 100oct file confussion and the numbers I put down. Ironically I did a dyno day in the dead of summer at HH's mustang dyno and put down very similar numbers.
> 
> Requardless prior to installing the methanol system there was a noticable difference in 93 and 100oct files. In fact I did some logs sent them to you to confirm that I had 100oct file and you confirmed in a email saying everything looked on target back in February.


 That sounds correct as I mentioned above. 




> I don't want to turn this into a pissing match or a he said, she said type battle ...


 Nick, by no means do I want to either! Please don't think that. All I'm saying is this bolt on 50+ whp claim is a bunch of bologna, that's all. I'm sure if you have a much more efficient turbo setup it will make more power, but I don't believe it will put down 50WHP without a calibration change. I spoke with EPL about this and I was lead to believe this was a no BS run. 1 Run with a healthy production garrett GT turbo we provide with our kit, and a direct swap to the other turbo they have sourced which showed an instant 50 WHP gain. Now we have learned this was months apart in different weather conditions and if I'm reading this correctly, even on different files! It now makes sense how there could be such a difference. 

I mean, nick, it's your car, you can do what you want to it, I don't care to be honest and I have nothing to protect on my end, all I'm saying is 'wow, well now it makes sense'. 




> You are very persuasive and good at what you do. I have much respect for APR and the products you develop. If it was not for you guys I would not be the car enthusiast I am becoming today. :thumbup:


 Thank you and I hope you respect my level of honesty too. 



> While the time of year and the conditions this data was obtained were different the fact that the car shows any substantial gain on just a turbo swap is impressive and looks very promising to me and any stage 3 owner looking for "a stage 4 build" aka more performace. The jury is still out ... opcorn:


 I just wish there was a more controlled test. Don't you? Wouldn't you rather see a back to back test to rule out any variables? 



> I took this risk with EPL because you infact told me that APR's engineers would *NOT* bench tune my file and up the timing, in fact I tried numerous times to get this done and I always received the same response whether it was from you or one of your dealers.


 Then in this case I may be partially to blame here. Trust me, I get requests for custom files all the time. Someone wants this, someone wants that... typically the requests are a bit insane and not as realistic as yours. Oh did I mention everyone wants it for free too (not saying you did). I'm sure at the time you asked I simply assumed the answer would be no so I let know early on I didn't think it would happen so I didn't get your hopes up and let you down over and over again. When we spoke at waterfest it appeared that was not the case so I was looking forward to hearing back from you but I never did (I hope I'm not confusing you with someone else btw). 



> Finally when we talked over phone after waterfest I asked you what APR's tuning strategies would be to meet my goals. We discussed aftermarket cams and retune would be the route to go. This would be the way to go based on the results of the TTS stage 3 car and hanks multi thousand dollar stage 4 built. Honestly, I just didn't feel comfortable spending money on something without empirical data...yeah these cars showed significant gains over our cars but how much will my car show with just a cam upgrade? This you could not answer, and in my eyes, I refused to spend my hard earned money on your speculations and experiences with totally different cars.


 I hear yah on that, and about the cams, like I said, I think it will be better but I had no data to support it so I wasn't about to tell you "Yes, you can add it and it WILL make power". I didn't know yet for sure so I wasn't about to waste your time. I swear we still discussed increasing timing though. 




> I am really upset that now you make a blanked statement in a public forum (and force me to make this post) that I could have had a revision of file without physically bringing my car to you as this was the very thing i have beed trying to accomplish unsuccessfully. I recollect nothing of the said conversation you stated above. However it was nice meeting you and I appreciated the bottle of water you gave me at waterfest.
> 
> Nick


 Nick, no blanket statements here. I'm not trying to lie to you or anyone else. I know for sure we discussed the cams I'm confident after we spoke at waterfest we discussed running logs to bump up the timing a bit if there was any headroom. But that was not the point of my post. You can do what you want and you can use any tuner you want for a custom tune. That's fine by me! It's not my money or my car. All I'm really saying is I don't believe a simply bolting on the turbo will give you an instant 50WHP bump. It made no sense to me, and now that you told the whole back story it makes sense. 

As I said before, good luck with your project! I hope it turns out well. It's good to see someone actually using an APR stage 3 kit for what it's designed: The Track!


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

glad we see eye to eye 



[email protected] said:


> Nick, by no means do I want to either! Please don't think that. All I'm saying is this bolt on 50+ whp claim is a bunch of bologna, that's all. I'm sure if you have a much more efficient turbo setup it will make more power, but I don't believe it will put down 50WHP without a calibration change. I spoke with EPL about this and I was lead to believe this was a no BS run. 1 Run with a healthy production garrett GT turbo we provide with our kit, and a direct swap to the other turbo they have sourced which showed an instant 50 WHP gain. Now we have learned this was months apart in different weather conditions and if I'm reading this correctly, even on different files! It now makes sense how there could be such a difference.


 
As far as the above, I have to be honest and say that I am assuming the runs were done on separate days. For all I know they were done on the same day...I could be wrong. 

Sucks about the 100oct file as I was then lead astray and was told differently....


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## S4ORCE2 (May 9, 2010)

S4ORCE # 2 was here :laugh:


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

I am in for the dyno day if I keep my car, tweek my fuel system to perfection, am able to have the engine rebuilt and broken in. 

I'm shooting for 450whp. **crossing fingers**


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Anyone else think it's a bit silly to put a 3071r on a T25 manifold?


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## 02VWGTIVR6 (Jan 31, 2002)

crew219 said:


> Anyone else think it's a bit silly to put a 3071r on a T25 manifold?


 are you saying that EPL is a bit silly?


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

crew219 said:


> Anyone else think it's a bit silly to put a 3071r on a T25 manifold?


 I was wondering the same thing. A Bob had suggested to me, one potential problem with pushing the APR stg3 is HEAT. The manifold flows pretty damn good for the 28 series, but I have no idea how restricting the T25 mani is on a 30 series. Doing the neccessary head work associated with APRs stg4 is probably one of the ways to address some of the potential damage done via excess heat. Hmmm... I just thought of something. Time to save some $.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Runin2Rich4FSi said:


> I was wondering the same thing. A Bob had suggested to me, one potential problem with pushing the APR stg3 is HEAT. The manifold flows pretty damn good for the 28 series, but I have no idea how restricting the T25 mani is on a 30 series. Doing the neccessary head work associated with APRs stg4 is probably one of the ways to address some of the potential damage done via excess heat. Hmmm... I just thought of something. Time to save some $.


 A huge advantage with stage 4 was timing advance. On the latest build with race gas [email protected] was able to hit mean best spark. With more timing advance we need less fuel and ETG's are lower. :thumbup:


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

02VWGTIVR6 said:


> are you saying that EPL is a bit silly?


 For changing the hot-side of a turbo to a more restrictive one? Yes. 

If you want to throw on a 3071, do it with the manifold that is properly designed for that purpose. 

It's a bit silly to drop $6k for APR SIII then an additional $___k for that turbo + tuning. 

Dave


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## bitjockey (Jan 3, 2009)

Arin, why do you turn everything into a fight? Your customer came to me *AFTER* exhausting your resources. He wanted a 100 octane tune, and he had to sign a waiver to get a file that wouldn't even pull ignition timing on 93 octane. He wanted a more aggressive file to utilize his upgrades, and got nothing. 

We are doing nothing but *praising* the quality of your kit, simply making an option available for your customers that want more. When you bolt on a turboback exhaust to one of these cars, and see 40+ft/lb of torque, does the ECU need to be retuned to see that gain of efficiency? No! The same principle applies here. A much larger turbo, with a more efficient compressor wheel and larger turbine housing, running at the same boost level as before, is 100% going to pick up a significant amount of power and torque over the smaller turbo. We aren't making the engine work any harder, simply making it breathe more efficiently. The bonus now being that the turbo is even more efficient at *higher* boost levels, which is where we're going next. 

The runs were done at different times, yes. But 10 degrees of ambient temperature (low 70s in May to mid 60s now) aren't going to make a 50HP difference, especially to our weather corrected numbers. The car feels even more than 50HP faster in the drivers seat. 

You should be excited to get involved with development like this, not immediately take a defensive position and call data "bologna" when your customer couldn't be happier. 

Hi Dave, how's your stock turbo car doing? "Silly" is throwing out an inconel manifold that is well designed along with other parts of the kit instead of looking for more power with what you already own. 

Sorry this is from my personal account, we don't advertise on Vortex. 

Robin 
EPL


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

bitjockey said:


> Arin, why do you turn everything into a fight?


 I don't understand how questioning data which was collected months apart would be considered fighting. The first set of data may have been collected using a totally different file and the conditions would be less than ideal as this run is apparently from a w/m tuning exercise. I believe I'm bringing up valid points here. 

Don't you feel it would be more applicable to show direct before and after results under a more controlled situation before making a bold claim of 50 whp gain with no software changes? If not that, why not share other data between runs to see if it truly did pick up all this power from the hardware alone? Data such as IAT's, mass air flow, timing advance, air fuel ratio, engine load, throttle position and boost levels would be a good start. 

This is a discussion board after all so we should discuss! 


Robin, 

offering a bolt on solution which adds 50 HP with no other changes on top of our kit is, well, quite frankly AWESOME, and assuming everything is top notch, I may want one too. Why would I not want our customers to have options? What do I gain by putting this down? I gain nothing, nothing at all. Our customers can only gain from this because they can now see this as an upgrade to the APR stage 3 kit. 

Just back it up with some data man!


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

IMAN973 said:


> Good idea Bob, i just need some advanced aka a couple months notice so i can put the motor back in the car and get it at an acceptable point  Every dyno day i see posted is always last minute and i can never get the parts i need to get the car back together in time. I* say lets use ffe's dyno because it seems like everyone who dynos there always gets better numbers.... i wonder why*:laugh:


 Who is that exactly directed towards? Last time i checked all cars making big power on that dyno back it up.. 
My car 500whp went [email protected] 
Ed's car 1000whp going 1-2-3 and letting off went [email protected] 
Todd's car 700whp [email protected] 
Joel car tuned by kevin Black 930whp [email protected] 

not exactly sure who that shot was directed towards.


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

I believe a T25 is restrictive for the size of this engine. 

But then again, USP used a internally gated 3076R on the T25 APR manifold. They were able to squeeze 600+.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

bitjockey said:


> Hi Dave, how's your stock turbo car doing? "Silly" is throwing out an inconel manifold that is well designed along with other parts of the kit instead of looking for more power with what you already own.
> 
> Robin
> EPL


 It's doing well. Been contemplating a K04 or stage III. How's work? I see you've been bounced around the industry quite a bit. 

No doubt APR's inconel manifold is well designed . . . for a T25 flange turbo. Downsizing the hotside on a 3071 merely limits the power levels it can achieve and raises questions as to what EGTs you'll see pre-turbine. The manifold can handle it but having high EGTs will affect how far you can go with tuning and reliability. 

You're advertising +50hp/+50tq when compared to a damaged turbo? What about a healthy turbo? What about without water/meth? 

Dave


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> I believe a T25 is restrictive for the size of this engine.
> 
> But then again, USP used a internally gated 3076R on the T25 APR manifold. They were able to squeeze 600+.
> 
> OP, why not just have PPT rebuild your existing turbo with a billet wheel. Arnold returned my turbo in less than 24hrs.


 
Almost got PPT involved with my car, but I had already contacted EPL and put into the woodworks a plan to retune my car. I actually spoke to arnold and was going to have him check my turbo but to get another shop into the mix didn't seem to logical. As for his wheel, I knew very little of it and would still be left with a tuning option... 

Hope you can get your car back on the street.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> I believe a T25 is restrictive for the size of this engine.
> 
> But then again, USP used a internally gated 3076R on the T25 APR manifold. They were able to squeeze 600+.
> 
> OP, why not just have PPT rebuild your existing turbo with a billet wheel. Arnold returned my turbo in less than 24hrs.


 He used an external gate 3076R. Not sure what modifications he made to the turbo/or manifold to make it fit the T25 flange. Regardless, it was the combination of the 3076R + special manifold with port injection + direct injection which allowed him to reach that 600+ power level. Not to mention it wasn't being tuned for reliability.


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## bitjockey (Jan 3, 2009)

crew219 said:


> It's doing well. Been contemplating a K04 or stage III. How's work? I see you've been bounced around the industry quite a bit.
> 
> No doubt APR's inconel manifold is well designed . . . for a T25 flange turbo. Downsizing the hotside on a 3071 merely limits the power levels it can achieve and raises questions as to what EGTs you'll see pre-turbine. The manifold can handle it but having high EGTs will affect how far you can go with tuning and reliability.
> 
> ...


 Yup, left Revo in 08 and went to Grand-Am for a while. Working with [email protected] now. Things are well. 

Chris Green @ USP had great results with this turbo on this manifold, thats why it was chosen. Not looking for 500HP here, just more than was available with the 2871. We didn't compare the damaged turbo to the new turbo for obvious reasons, the baseline dyno was done when the car was running at it's peak back in May. The car has Aquamist methanol on it, for both the runs.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Who is that exactly directed towards? Last time i checked all cars making big power on that dyno back it up..
> My car 500whp went [email protected]
> Ed's car 1000whp going 1-2-3 and letting off went [email protected]
> Todd's car 700whp [email protected]
> ...


 "Who you talking about Willis" LOL :laugh: 

Honestly there nothing wrong with using FFE Dyno, Jeff you can be the judge and keep things in honest and orderly fashion . Bob.G


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

sabba said:


> Car is not finished but things are looking promising so I decided to post prior to its completion. Instead of using the regular players on the market for fsi engine I decided to go off the beaten path. I choose a shop that is well respected and had experience with direct injected engines of VAG and BMW cars.
> 
> I was looking for more power and did not want to build the head. Initally I was just going to get the car retuned but after a recent track event I was worried that I had damaged my existing turbo as it was starting to whine on spool up. There was still life left in the turbo but didnt want to take the risk. I had the choice of rebuilding the turbo or going for something larger with a billet wheel. The downtime was less with a new turbo so it was a no brainer for me. If there was any time to do this, now was the perfect time.
> 
> ...


 
Nice stuff, Precision recently came out with billet wheeled GT series. From what I remember the turbine wheels are different than a standard GT, but the compressor wheels are the same design in billet.


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## [email protected] (Sep 4, 2007)

There's no doubt in my mind that turbo technology didn't end with the 2871R. So, I do not question the fact that someone has found a more efficient unit that will bolt to our manifold. 

However, I'm forced to be skeptical of gains without calibration, especially 50whp. The calibration requests load, not boost pressure. It determines what boost pressure is necessary to reach a certain load, but that's it. Load is based on MAF, engine displacement, and rpm. So, if the new turbocharger in question flows more air on this engine at a given boost pressure that means that actual load will go beyond requested. When this happens the ECU is either going to close throttle or adjust requested boost accordingly until the original requested load value is met. In other words, until the calibration is changed to ask for more load, more load cannot be given. Not to mention that 50whp equates to 150-170kg/h of air which is a lot! 

So, am I saying this is a lie, no. I'm simply saying I don't understand how it's possible. If it does work, great! I'll be anxious to log a car with our tools to learn how the ECU is treating the situation.


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Who is that exactly directed towards? Last time i checked all cars making big power on that dyno back it up..
> My car 500whp went [email protected]
> Ed's car 1000whp going 1-2-3 and letting off went [email protected]
> Todd's car 700whp [email protected]
> ...


 Last time i checked you wernt ffe so.... My comment wasnt directed toward any specific car. I have been to most of the tristate dynos with my previous car when i was just stage 2++. I know first hand which ones are calibrated more conservatively. I have nothing against them just stated a fact that their dyno reads high period.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

IMAN973 said:


> I have nothing against them just stated a fact that their dyno reads high period.


 Would you consider this to be a prime example? 

T25 3071 (less he changed it?), pump fuel, 437 whp. 

http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?4756103


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Would you consider this to be a prime example?
> 
> T25 3071 (less he changed it?), pump fuel, 437 whp.
> 
> http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?4756103


 Arin thats only if your focusing on the raw " number" 

If we get lets say a Dozen different BT customers and setups and dyno on the same dyno, same day , same uncorrected WHP and WTQ numbers we can compare each different hardware setup and its powerband , spool,area over the curve, etc 










Example above 

Done 2 + years ago on the same dyno, same day it clearly shows thats Jeff's car made 50WHP more power than mine. The differences in hardware T-25 2871internal gated (.63ar) versus full 3071 T-3 external WG.Both cars where on 93 pump gas and no other outside fueling like W/M. This is the BEST way to compare and take focus off the raw"number" all to use the same uncorrected factor so there numbers wont be skew to give advantage to any of the set ups being dynoed.Bob.G


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Bob, wasn't Jeff's car the 'tuning exercise' Revo preformed a while back and not what it's actual customers were getting for the street? Besides from Jeffs car, I only ever remember seeing two other Revo stage 3 or 4, whatever it's called, dynos from independent customers. They were in the 300-320 whp range iirc. (show me others if you have any and please, no w/m or MBCs!) That's not a dig against revo by any means, just I believe Jeffs car was just like Gregg's car in that it was a "Lets see what it will do" project for the dyno and the strip.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Bob, wasn't Jeff's car the 'tuning exercise' Revo preformed a while back and not what it's actual customers were getting for the street? Besides from Jeffs car, I only ever remember seeing two other Revo stage 3 or 4, whatever it's called, dynos from independent customers. They were in the 300-320 whp range iirc. (show me others if you have any and please, no w/m or MBCs!) That's not a dig against revo by any means, just I believe Jeffs car was just like Gregg's car in that it was a "Lets see what it will do" project for the dyno and the strip.


 It was a Revo stage 3 Beta 93 pump gas tune . 
My car was also in Beta at that time too 93 pump gas tune  Bob.G


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Would you consider this to be a prime example?
> 
> T25 3071 (less he changed it?), pump fuel, 437 whp.
> 
> http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?4756103


 For once i agree with you. That dyno was on a t3 though but the previous setup you listed made 400. I have that EXACT kit on a customers car in my driveway right now because my customer bought it off of john along with that tune. I took it for a test drive because i was curious as to see how it felt compared to mine, and i must say its NO WAY 400. The only dyno my car has scene has been driversports mustang and it was when we were breaking it in on 15 psi. At 15 psi and reving to 6200 we made 390 and it felt stronger then this t25. 

Again i don't care about it but if i was looking for a high number id go there.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

I would want the wastegate gasses dumped before they reach the flange (AKA on the manifold). This would help the t25 flange from being too restrictive. Either way, Gregg's car had an elbow off the exhaust housing of the turbo and the apr t25 manifold and he made 600.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

IMAN973 said:


> For once i agree with you. That dyno was on a t3 though but the previous setup you listed made 400. I have that EXACT kit on a customers car in my driveway right now because my customer bought it off of john along with that tune. I took it for a test drive because i was curious as to see how it felt compared to mine, and i must say its NO WAY 400. The only dyno my car has scene has been driversports mustang and it was when we were breaking it in on 15 psi. At 15 psi and reving to 6200 we made 390 and it felt stronger then this t25.
> 
> Again i don't care about it but if i was looking for a high number id go there.


 Isaac when you gonna finish the car and make some numbers? I see you doin work, doin work.. I wanna see you make 650


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Bob, wasn't Jeff's car the 'tuning exercise' Revo preformed a while back and not what it's actual customers were getting for the street? Besides from Jeffs car, I only ever remember seeing two other Revo stage 3 or 4, whatever it's called, dynos from independent customers. They were in the 300-320 whp range iirc. (show me others if you have any and please, no w/m or MBCs!) That's not a dig against revo by any means, just I believe Jeffs car was just like Gregg's car in that it was a "Lets see what it will do" project for the dyno and the strip.





rracerguy717 said:


> Arin thats only if your focusing on the raw " number"
> 
> If we get lets say a Dozen different BT customers and setups and dyno on the same dyno, same day , same uncorrected WHP and WTQ numbers we can compare each different hardware setup and its powerband , spool,area over the curve, etc


 
So this thread dosnt head way off track , Once Nick gets his car all sorted out from EPL. Maybe we can get the new csr that just installed the new EUROJET BT kit with Uni sw he only in CT . 
Im sure we can get a few APR Stage 3 FSI and TSI and other DIY BT guys and have a nice dyno day so we can end all of the dyno excuses :laugh: Bob.G


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Would you consider this to be a prime example?
> 
> T25 3071 (less he changed it?), pump fuel, 437 whp.
> 
> http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?4756103


 nope. T3 3076R.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

LEWXCORE said:


> I would want the wastegate gasses dumped before they reach the flange (AKA on the manifold). This would help the t25 flange from being too restrictive. Either way, Gregg's car had an elbow off the exhaust housing of the turbo and the apr t25 manifold and he made 600.


 Like this in the link below . 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3350476 

My setup is getting this treatment in the spring time to free up some [email protected] Parts  Bob.G


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

LEWXCORE said:


> Isaac when you gonna finish the car and make some numbers? I see you doin work, doin work.. I wanna see you make 650


 Thats the advantage of being my friend on facebook. You get to see what im working on that the forms dont  

650 shouldnt be a problem but im tryning to see what fuel i want to set it up for. E85? c16 daily??? I may just stick with 93 and meth for the street and have also a c16 file for the strip/dyno. Plus what size injectors will i use, o soo many decisions.:vampire:


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Bump this thread to the top 

Hopefully all is going well with Nick car @EPL he should be getting his car back soon with custom tuning . Bob.G


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

im excited to see the outcome. 

if i keep this car i most likely will be touching bases with EPL for a custom tune, all depends on how well nick's car performs.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> im excited to see the outcome.
> 
> if i keep this car i most likely will be touching bases with EPL for a custom tune, all depends on how well nick's car performs.


 Yep there will be more than a few BT Software custom tuning solutions , about dam time LOL:laugh: Bob.G


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

ill keep you guys updated. been a few busy days at work so i havebeen out of the loop. By the looks of some of posts, many of you feel the t25 manifold is too restrictive for anything greater then 28 series turbo and I will run hot. This was discussed with EPL i am confident they will produce a tune for my car thats provides me with solid performance gain and keeps all in check. 

Will have a nice opportunity to run the car to its paces against some exotics at monticello next month..expect gopro footage!!... and I am 100% game for planning a dyno day..most any saturday is good for me. 


Nick


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

Saw your car at EPL. looks nice and sleeperish for sure. 

I am affraid that someone else is going to have to take over the reins on getting a dyno day sorted out. EPL would do a dyno day on Saturday only, for me that does not work since I am in sales and cannot take off another Saturday anytime soon.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

cool! Can't wait to get the car back. 

We will figure something out as far as a dyno day goes. So I assume a sunday would be ideal for you?


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## mikeg6045 (Apr 14, 2010)

Looking good Nick !! 

Cant wait to take a ride in the car when you get it back. Those are some really sweet track pictures there. your car looks great ! 

I am betting you will make a bunch more power once your car is tuned !


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

mikeg6045 said:


> Looking good Nick !!
> 
> Cant wait to take a ride in the car when you get it back. Those are some really sweet track pictures there. your car looks great !
> 
> I am betting you will make a bunch more power once your car is tuned !


 

Thanks Mike :thumbup:


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

any updates? Any clue if the 3071 would fit the tsi too?


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

HalvieCuw said:


> any updates? Any clue if the 3071 would fit the tsi too?


Good news the car is back in action. Ill give a nice review of car with data and videos when i get to spend more time with it. For now ill just say that the car makes crazy power and it definetely makes too much power for the front axle to handle but its so much fun and 4th gear pull is just bonkers!!!!

Onto more important stuff...the driveability is OEM but be aggressive with the throttle and your reminded that there is a billet 3071 turbo being awoken :laugh: ...so much fun. The boost onset is the same as the apr kit, i hit full boost at 4100rpms in fourth gear and car is pulling nice and hard 3500rpms. 

again these are my initial impression the car.


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## VaGPuncher (Jul 22, 2006)

Oh so sweet! Congrats man!


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

sabba said:


> Good news the car is back in action. Ill give a nice review of car with data and videos when i get to spend more time with it. For now ill just say that the car makes crazy power and ive definetely make too much power for the front axle to handle but its so much fun and 4th gear pull is just bonkers!!!!
> 
> Onto more important stuff...the driveability is OEM but be aggressive with the throttle and your reminded that there is a billet 3071 turbo being awoken :laugh: ...so much fun. The boost onset is the same as the apr kit, i hit full boost at 4100rpms in fourth gear and car is pulling nice and hard 3500rpms.
> 
> again these are my initial impression the car.


Nick I'm glad that things turned out well and looking foward to your review. Seems like smaller companies are listening to customers and getting things done  Bob. G


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## hly (Sep 22, 2001)

Nick, congrats on pioneering a new tuning option for the rest of us.
Let me know if you guys organize a dyno day at EPL. If I can make it I'll be there with the TSI stg3.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

Thanks guys



hly said:


> Nick, congrats on pioneering a new tuning option for the rest of us.
> Let me know if you guys organize a dyno day at EPL. If I can make it I'll be there with the TSI stg3.



Awesome, so you have the stage 3 kit in your car right now? You should push tony to try and tune it and see what that puppy can blow. 

Going custom tune was the best thing I ever did. Car drives like stock and pulls like a freight train, partial throttle is no problemo. Believe there is a local DYNO day at forcefed engineering on 1.30.11, the shop is located in deer park, ny in suffolk county long island. You should be there will be a bunch of turbo'd cars there including numerous apr stage 3 cars.


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## mikeg6045 (Apr 14, 2010)

sabba said:


> Good news the car is back in action. Ill give a nice review of car with data and videos when i get to spend more time with it. For now ill just say that the car makes crazy power and it definetely makes too much power for the front axle to handle but its so much fun and 4th gear pull is just bonkers!!!!
> 
> Onto more important stuff...the driveability is OEM but be aggressive with the throttle and your reminded that there is a billet 3071 turbo being awoken :laugh: ...so much fun. The boost onset is the same as the apr kit, i hit full boost at 4100rpms in fourth gear and car is pulling nice and hard 3500rpms.
> 
> again these are my initial impression the car.


Very nice Nick ! Glad to hear you are very happy with the car ! I want a ride in it !


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

mikeg6045 said:


> Very nice Nick ! Glad to hear you are very happy with the car ! I want a ride in it !


:thumbup: no doubt you will be impressed.


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

I'm looking forward to a review also


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

wazzap1101 said:


> I'm looking forward to a review also


I'll try to make it half was as good as your review of the stage three kit. Honestly it drives the same way as the stage 3 kit, it just pulls harder and has much more power ESP the higher gears.


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## VaGPuncher (Jul 22, 2006)

sabba said:


> I'll try to make it half was as good as your review of the stage three kit. Honestly it drives the same way as the stage 3 kit, it just pulls harder and has much more power ESP the higher gears.


I like the sound of this!!


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

VaGPuncher said:


> I like the sound of this!!


hit me up and we will go for a ride. There is nothing better then experiencing it first hand. I could type anything i want on here whether its true or not.


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## ZGTIBT (Oct 4, 2010)

Congrats Man :thumbup:, very impressive and don't forget to post pics and videos :laugh:


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## hly (Sep 22, 2001)

sabba said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stage 3 is currently being installed. Should be ready next week.
I know there can be a big difference between off-the-shelf and custom-tune...

Dyno day sounds good, I'll try to be there.
I want a ride in your car, too. By the way, how come you are having traction problem? Is the new power too much even for 4 wheel drive?


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## S4ORCE2 (May 9, 2010)

sabba said:


> Going custom tune was the best thing I ever did.


I remember telling you this from day number one when you picked it up after doing the Stage 3 kit. 

Anyway, enjoy it...drive safe. :thumbup:


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

hly said:


> Stage 3 is currently being installed. Should be ready next week.
> I know there can be a big difference between off-the-shelf and custom-tune...
> 
> Dyno day sounds good, I'll try to be there.
> I want a ride in your car, too. By the way, how come you are having traction problem? Is the new power too much even for 4 wheel drive?


im FWD just like the GTI. 

actually i was driving it today and I was able to control it better.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

:facepalm: yes you did. 




S4ORCE2 said:


> I remember telling you this from day number one when you picked it up after doing the Stage 3 kit.
> 
> Anyway, enjoy it...drive safe. :thumbup:


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## TechnikSLR (Jul 30, 2008)

the video is private.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

oops! thanks


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

sabba said:


> im FWD just like the GTI.
> 
> actually i was driving it today and I was able to control it better.


Looks strong Nick :thumbup:

3- 4th gear wheel spin @ 80+ can be handful espec with colder weather coming , that spool looks and sounds about the same .Now that you have the car back go and enjoy it  Bob.G


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## TechnikSLR (Jul 30, 2008)

jesus its a freight train!


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

sabba said:


> I'll try to make it half was as good as your review of the stage three kit. Honestly it drives the same way as the stage 3 kit, it just pulls harder and has much more power ESP the higher gears.


Ty sir! Can't wait to see it in action on dyno day at FFE.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Does the EPL flash get rid of the APR program switching infrastructure?


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

ofcourse it does...would be cool if it didn't


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

Just thought I would update this thread a little. Car is still running awesome I am real happy with the turbo and tune as well as apr's awesome hardware components to built the foundation of this car.
Cold starts no issue...same as with the apr kit. Car idles smooth as can be. Partial throttle and car response ... Would think your driving an apr tuned car. Spool up time on this turbo is essentially the same as the 2871, I honestly do not perceive a noticeable difference.

Gas consumption... Im on the second tank since I picked car up. I recently picked up another car so I have been neglecting the a3 a bit. Anyways.... Let just say the first tank didn't last that long I was at around 211 miles deep into the tank when I was between 1/4 and reserve... Think I filled up around 11.7 gallons or so. But I was really beating on the car like I should have been. I dont trust the on board computer and it ave. Mileage/actual mileage/est. Miles to tank BS...as it's never right. I just reset my mileage at every refill... Typically I don't run tank dry and average around 250-285 miles when I was stage 3.... Give or take. It's safe to say I am burning more gas with my current set up...but I am making more power too.

Traction well there are some issues here. I spin second gear on hard throttle and I break up a bit in third. I have a differential in the car. Am currently running 245/35/18 kuhmo xs an extreme performance tire in sub 40 temps. Is it an issue yes, is it the source of my problems...No, unfortunately. Depending on the conditions car is spiking at 28psi on my defi boost guage and tapering down to 22psi at redline. It's impressive!

Dsg well it's holding up just fine to the task... Crazy I know. I do have a flash for what was c2motoribg and is now united motorsports. Jeff A. Actually wrote me a tune on the fly when my car was at epl a few months ago...prior to this build. The is no slippage of clutch, I can put it in 6th gear at 2500rpms 40mph give it some gas and so slippage... Very cool!


That's all the good stuff but you know the saying ... Have to take the good with the bad. Only real issue car has is if I letmthe car bounce off the rev limited 7200 rpm's the car will drop boost stumble
A little bit and then upshift. It did not do this before. So the task at hand is now figuring out if this is an issue with the ecu tune or tch tune. If I shift the car manually at 7150 the car is fine, it's only when it hits the rev limited that car breaks up. Other then that I see no faults with this tune. I ran some logs that I will sort through and send to epl. This is a one off tune and I'm sure there is room for minor refinements. But if you looking for driveability, smoothness, and power well... I have it!


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

sabba said:


> Just thought I would update this thread a little. Car is still running awesome I am real happy with the turbo and tune as well as apr's awesome hardware components to built the foundation of this car.
> Cold starts no issue...same as with the apr kit. Car idles smooth as can be. Partial throttle and car response ... Would think your driving an apr tuned car. Spool up time on this turbo is essentially the same as the 2871, I honestly do not perceive a noticeable difference.
> 
> Gas consumption... Im on the second tank since I picked car up. I recently picked up another car so I have been neglecting the a3 a bit. Anyways.... Let just say the first tank didn't last that long I was at around 211 miles deep into the tank when I was between 1/4 and reserve... Think I filled up around 11.7 gallons or so. But I was really beating on the car like I should have been. I dont trust the on board computer and it ave. Mileage/actual mileage/est. Miles to tank BS...as it's never right. I just reset my mileage at every refill... Typically I don't run tank dry and average around 250-285 miles when I was stage 3.... Give or take. It's safe to say I am burning more gas with my current set up...but I am making more power too.
> ...


Nick Im glad everything turned out well Toni @EPL has been a stand up guy they have been building and tuning BT B5 S4 with stella results for a while now and has resently took on the Porsche Turbo market with the same stella results meeting or beating there cutomers expectations still with butter smooth driveabilty .

Im glad us BT FSI guys are finally getting a few more options in new tuners in the market this coming year seems very promising compared to the last few years with fair results at best . Enjoy the car :thumbup: Bob.G


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

Up


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

wazzap1101 said:


> Up


Still annoyed that EPL can't tune an mkvi and give them this upgrade.


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

HalvieCuw said:


> Still annoyed that EPL can't tune an mkvi and give them this upgrade.


Maybe it can happen in the future. I'm still really anxious for updates regarding the fsi


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

wazzap1101 said:


> Maybe it can happen in the future. I'm still really anxious for updates regarding the fsi


Car still drives like a freight train, couldn't be happier with it. What would you like to know... 

We live so close to one another that we could meet up some time you know! Tony and EPL did an awesome job :thumbup:


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

sabba said:


> Almost got PPT involved with my car, but I had already contacted EPL and put into the woodworks a plan to retune my car. I actually spoke to arnold and was going to have him check my turbo but to get another shop into the mix didn't seem to logical. As for his wheel, I knew very little of it and would still be left with a tuning option...
> 
> Hope you can get your car back on the street.


 you were smart for not getting involved with them. 

i *think* i am going to have EPL tune my car once its up and running 100%.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Pretty nice thread! By now I'm more than bloody broken! LOL! but I was thinking in a couple of years to swap my Garrett GT 2871 (APR Stage III turbo) to a GTX one!


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

car will be on market soon... 

i would love to sell it as is, as the car is put together perfect, trouble fee and running strong. 

i will consider a giant part out if there is no interest.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

sabba said:


> car will be on market soon...
> 
> i would love to sell it as is, as the car is put together perfect, trouble fee and running strong.
> 
> i will consider a giant part out if there is no interest.


 What is it being replaced with?


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Can't see the video Dude! Please uploaded again!


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

HalvieCuw said:


> What is it being replaced with?


 Z4 M coupe is the new track weapon, bought last Nov. 



















ive been daily driving the A3 and its more then up to the task....just think it will be better suited in someone elses hands. 



the video posted was nothing special...if there is something you want to see let me know and i will try and meet your request.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

sabba said:


> Z4 M coupe is the new track weapon, bought last Nov.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Pretty nice car! Congrats!:thumbup: 

Are those H&R wheels?


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

BETOGLI said:


> Pretty nice car! Congrats!:thumbup:
> 
> Are those H&R wheels?


 Thanks, its a fun car to drive and handles like a champ! 

The wheels are actually signature black MORR VS8.2's.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

sabba said:


> Thanks, its a fun car to drive and handles like a champ!
> 
> The wheels are actually signature black MORR VS8.2's.


 How much are you enjoying the rear wheel drive? I like those wheels! Congrats again man! :thumbup:


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