# MadMax Control Arms- Sizing Question



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Looking at getting some ends from max or whole arms for mcpii.

I noticed that they are listed as two different sizes? for 180Q and 225 ?

When I look on ETKA I see no difference in outer bushing part numbers or in control arm part numbers between models. 

When I look at either of my cars (have a 180Q and 225) they both have the same part numbers on the control arms which leads me to believe they are the same.

I was wondering if someone could clarify the difference between the two.

Link for Ref.

http://www.mcpii.com/MadMaxControlArm.html


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

"Note that there are two different style, due to differences in the wheel hub design/thickness."

First I've heard of that. Can you compare the hubs?


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I think while making sets Max found that the bushings were two different diameters so for better fitment he was making arms in both sizes.

I could try and clarify if I see him this week or you could shoot him an email.

[email protected]


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Doug-

Thanks, got his info off QW last night. Although I didn't ask him this specific question because I needed something else. 

I have interchanged control arms between both models, so I am not sure.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Yeah that's what's going on. My buddy Phil (Vroom) bought a set for his 225. The shackle was just a little off from the 180 vs 225. Like Doug said, he's now making to different versions because of this. One of those unforeseen issues that people run into when making their own parts. I cant wait to get a set of these on the TT:thumbup:


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Eric(Warranty) is right. There is a difference of just a couple mm's on the U-joints. 

Silly that they would make them with that lil dif, but it was enough for the u-joints to not fit. 

It's important to note here, that Max emailed me and told me right away as soon as he found out about the issue. He actually reached out to me a couple days before I installed them(luckily) and saved me a serious headache. Then sent out new parts to me asap and free of charge:thumbup:

If thats not good customer service when ordering car parts... idk what is:beer:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Just got my set, good quality and surprisingly light :thumbup: I'll pick up a set of zerk caps, and remember that they point down when I install the arms :laugh:


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## GruvenParts.com (Jul 31, 2007)

These are in stock, ready to ship, and come in your choice of poly or spherical ends. They are also provided by a forum vendor. We have sold quite a few of these.

Not putting down what Max has done here at all, just making sure everyone knows about the GruvenParts.com versions.





* TT/R32 Rear Adjustable Control Arms*

Click on the picture to visit our product page for up to date pricing info.

*NOW CHOOSE POLY-BUSHINGS OR SPHERICAL ROD ENDS !! *

Got a lowered TT or R32 ? Then you already know how the camber and toe become completely out of sorts, causing poor handling and expensive tire wear the more its lowered. 

The GruvenParts adjustable control arms allow for complete rear wheel alignment and feature the following : 

Choose from a zero deflection high radial load PTFE lined heim joint with protective dust boots preinstalled over specially machined bushings. The fit of the boot over the heim and bushings is nearly water tight! 

*OR* 

A poly bushing end with a heat treated 4340 forged chromoly housing, grease fitting, zinc plated steel sleeves, and race grade greaseable black polyurethane bushings 

You decide which set up you want ! The zero deflection spherical heims are suited for serious track abuse while the poly bushing ends are better suited for daily drivers. 

All control arms feature the following :

Super strong, heat treated 4340 aircraft grade chromoly rod and ¼” thick U-Joints with machined, internally lubricated (molybdenum disulfide) threads. No weak aluminum is used for these parts (aluminum threads wont hold up). 

Distinct proper wrench adjustment flats machined into the bars which allow for 2” of length adjustment while on the car. There is no knurled hand adjustment nonsense here, ours are simple to adjust. 

Thick, durable powder coat finish (and zinc plating on the poly bushing ends) in your choice of high gloss black or Bilstein jazz blue. Please don’t adjust these with weight on the rear axle, and don’t use channel locks that could mar even a hard coat chrome plate.

Made right here in Atlanta, Georgia by our FAA approved commercial aviation machine shop working on state of the art CNC mills and lathes. You wont find many shops working at our level, and you wont find higher quality anywhere !

*We know the economy is tough right now, so we are offering these at prices well under our competition. Buy 2 sets and save !!! *

This product fits Audi TT (2001-2006), Audi A3/S3, VW R32 (2004), VW Golf 4motion and 4motion Variant, VW Bora 4motion and 4motion Variant and replaces P/N 1J0-505-323L (1J0505323L) and 1J0-505-323N (1J0505323N).

*Want further discounts and more great products from GruvenParts.com? * Read on!


* TT/R32 Rear Adjustable Sway Bar End Linkages*

Got a lowered TT, R32, or A3 ? Then you need to be able to adjust your rear stabilizer bar end links to ensure the linkages ride perpendicular to the swaybar and correct the less than ideal handling typical of lowered set ups. The factory set up does not provide any adjustability in the swaybar end links but GruvenParts.com has you covered! 

Our adjustable end links are made from aerospace grade 6061-T651 aluminum hex and feature 2 full inches of adjustment ON THE CAR. This makes for very quick and easy length adjustment on both the top and bottom of the linkage to completely fine tune just about any suspension set up. Our linkages utilize high quality greaseable heim joints for many years of smooth and quiet operation. While we recommend using our fully adjustable rear control arms, you can install these end links without them. The main body is show quality powder coated jazz blue or gloss black to match our control arms, and like all of our parts they are made right here in Atlanta, Georgia by our FAA approved commercial jet aviation machine shop on state of the art HAAS mills and lathes. You wont find higher quality anywhere! 

This product fits Audi TT (2001-2006), Audi A3/S3, VW R32 (2004), VW Golf 4motion and 4motion Variant, VW Bora 4motion and 4motion Variant and replaces OEM linkage P/N 1J0-505-466B (1J0505466B). 

Please note : This product is sold in sets of 2 (1 for each side) and includes all required spacers and the upper bolt/lock nut. Re-use existing lower bolt


* TT/R32 OEM Headlight Leveling Adapter Bracket*

TT / R32 Headlight Leveling Adapter Bracket 

Our headlight leveling adapter bracket is neoprene covered and comes with a rubber backing plate to securely attach the OEM headlight leveling arm to the GruvenParts.com adjustable rear control arms. The bracket is fully isolated from vibration and scratches and protects the beautiful powder coated finish on our adjustable rear control arms. Includes U bracket, nuts, and rubber backing plate - ALL hardware needed to quickly and simply attach your OEM headlight leveling arm. May require slight trimming of the neoprene wrap over the U-bolt with a sharp blade. 

This product fits Audi TT (2001-2006), Audi A3/S3, VW R32 (2004), VW Golf 4motion and 4motion Variant, VW Bora 4motion and 4motion Variant equipped with a headlight leveling system and the GruvenParts.com rear adjustable control arms.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Lolz @ afraid of missing the action.


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## zak2006 (May 5, 2011)

love mine! Super light but felt extremely well put together. easy to install and my alignment shop loved how easy they were to adjust!


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## murTTer (Jun 27, 2009)

I hope by now "madmax" has started sending longer bolts with his kits as well bc the oem bolts are too short. and Im sorry but after seeing the madmax ctrl arms today Im glad I went w Gruven...


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

murTTer said:


> I hope by now "madmax" has started sending longer bolts with his kits as well bc the oem bolts are too short. and Im sorry but after seeing the madmax ctrl arms today Im glad I went w Gruven...


good job posting details. I am unsatisfied with my gruvens.

Sent from a phone.


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## zak2006 (May 5, 2011)

murTTer said:


> I hope by now "madmax" has started sending longer bolts with his kits as well bc the oem bolts are too short. and Im sorry but after seeing the madmax ctrl arms today Im glad I went w Gruven...


I didn't have a problem and I used new OEM bolts :beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

GruvenParts.com said:


> These are in stock, ready to ship, and come in your choice of poly or spherical ends. They are also provided by a forum vendor. We have sold quite a few of these.
> Not putting down what Max has done here at all, just making sure everyone knows about the _id=382&category_id=60]* TT/R32 Rear Adjustable Control Arms*[/url]
> 
> Click on the picture to visit our product page for up to date pricing info.
> ...


If this would have been a thread about "Gruvenparts" arms you would have looked like much less of a douche-bag by posting your crap. As it stands, you guys suck and will never get my business. Your new control arm that you (CLEARLY) updated because you couldn't compete with Max, shows that if you would have listened to us (Max included) you could have done this a long time ago and Max wouldn't have needed to make his own arms. :wave:



murTTer said:


> Im sorry but after seeing the madmax ctrl arms today Im glad I went w Gruven...


Lol, why? Do they come with stickers and a pat on the ass? The term "clown-shoes" comes to mind..


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## poopie (Feb 22, 2005)

gruven, stop wasting bandwidth. you guys peddle your products enough on this section and we don't need to see it in a post not related to your brand of arms.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

poopie said:


> gruven, stop wasting bandwidth. you guys peddle your products enough on this section and we don't need to see it in a post not related to your brand of arms.


Agreed. Thats some low class whoring.:bs:


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## darrenbyrnes (Jan 4, 2005)

FWIW - I have a set of the Gruven arms, the "first" generation w/o the rubber boot. After reading about how the new poly boot is better for DD (especially since I live in Minnesota with salt and stuff on the orads) , I decided to change out the ends. I contacted Max about using HIS Poly end, and was told that they do, indeed, fit on the Gruven arms as well, at HALF the price of the Gruven poly ends.

He was very quick with the correspondence as well.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## GruvenParts.com (Jul 31, 2007)

Darren you could of contacted me directly if you had an issue with the spherical ends. Ive been very willing to help any customer of mine. Sorry if the poly ends are expensive, ours are forged 4340 housings, not just a shell welded to a stud. 

I am not sure where this notion of "we copied" someone comes from. 

We had several customers contact us asking for a poly end, so we decided to offer it as an option. We did not, however, just provide an off the shelf shell welded to stud. We decided to use 4340 forged housing for ultimate strength, then we custom make the sleeves with hat sections to protect the sleeve outer diameters. This is more expensive than just using normal sleeves. We have gone 1 further than the off the shelf solution and its worked very very well for a DD solution. The spherical ends continue to be a good option for those tracking the car or those who otherwise want zero defection control arms.










There have been quite a few threads like this one advertising a product from a non-advertising vendor, so I feel its important to make sure forum readers know about a legitimate vendor like www.GruvenParts.com. 

And Warranty, try to be more civil on here, man. You have made it clear you wont buy products from us. Gruvenparts will STILL be here for a long, long time providing high quality custom parts for VW and Audi, count on it.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

GruvenParts.com said:


> And Warranty, try to be more civil on here, man. You have made it clear you wont buy products from us. Gruvenparts will STILL be here for a long, long time providing high quality custom parts for VW and Audi, count on it.


Just calling it like it is. If that's a problem for you, that's YOUR problem. Trying to hock your **** in a thread about a product thats superior to your shows a lack of class, business ethics, or both. Your business practices are pretty shady, which is more than evident by you derailing this thread. Get over yourself. The more you post crap like this, the more the community sees what you guys are all about. Quit while your ahead..


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## ttwsm (Feb 27, 2011)

x2. I could definitely see both sides of the original dispute, but jeez why can't you (Gruven) give it a rest? You have your ads and your sale threads, can't you just leave it at that?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

The biggest reason I stay away from Gruven, is I suggested he do this two years ago. He told me it was not needed as they were tested on the track. Well the track and street are two very different environments. One is controlled (track) one is not (street). Pot holes, water/salt mid corner bumps can all wear out race components faster that you would think. Shine Racing in the early 90's ran into this when people were buying their solid bearings for the rear VW suspensions (they lasted an average of 500 miles prior to having the rear suspension moving as much of a 1/2 inch side to side) This can be very very very dangerous for uncontrolled environments. 

Only when the Gruven arms started to seize and snap the ends from the bearings not having seals, did he add seals (CPT has done this for 4+ years)

Then only when Max did the engineering to solve the problem and make a more streetable version, did Gruven switch to the bushing style.

This style business policy, scares me as Gruven clearly only cares about the $$ and not about the end product, until some one competes with something better. Companies that do not constantly try to improve their products for customers will fail in the end.

CPT Ends PTFE Lined with seals (20-30k road lifespan)









MadMax Poly Bushing End









Just my $.02 as I prefer to have the best money can buy and ensure the safety of myself and any passengers in the car, wife/kids/friends/ect.


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## darrenbyrnes (Jan 4, 2005)

GruvenParts.com said:


> Darren you could of contacted me directly if you had an issue with the spherical ends. Ive been very willing to help any customer of mine.


I did contact you several times and got a couple different prices from you for the "boot" covered one. I was eventually told that the price for them were listed on the website and noted that there was no discount for an already existing customer who just wanted a little better product (rather the "correct" product for my needs.)

I have the "first generation" Gruven arms without the boot and at the time, was told that would be fine for DD use.

Fast forward a couple years and what I have now is deemed "for track use."

I don't track my car and live in the salt infested roads of Minneapolis, thus necessitating a change in the end.

$70 each (plus shipping) for ONE poly end is double what Max charged me for essentially what I needed.

I'm not hating on you, just telling it like it is.

:beer::beer::beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

darrenbyrnes said:


> I did contact you several times and got a couple different prices from you for the "boot" covered one. I was eventually told that the price for them were listed on the website and noted that there was no discount for an already existing customer who just wanted a little better product (rather the "correct" product for my needs.)
> I have the "first generation" Gruven arms without the boot and at the time, was told that would be fine for DD use.
> Fast forward a couple years and what I have now is deemed "for track use."
> I don't track my car and live in the salt infested roads of Minneapolis, thus necessitating a change in the end.
> ...


Looks like Gruvenparts self proclaimed *"Best customer service in the industry"* in action.:thumbup:

Keep diggin that hole boysopcorn:


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Guys I didnt make this thread to bitch about gruven, I have one of those already.

The question was answered, and I am thankful.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

ejg3855 said:


> Guys I didnt make this thread to bitch about gruven, I have one of those already.
> 
> The question was answered, and I am thankful.


Glad to hear you got it all sorted out :beer:


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

Although I don't want to add to the fire on the Grooven argument, but since they are reading/following this thread I'd like to share.

I think by having Max banned twice now you have lost a majority of the TT customer base that won't be coming back. I understand the technical reason why he was banned, however, he was a respected and contributing member of this forum and was willing to help anybody out. I think a warning would have sufficed.

This is a community that you are paying to advertise in. An online community is about getting/asking for advice, sharing information and accomplishments related to this car platform. I'm not trying to start an argument or insult you guys, I'm just trying to explain why there is so much animosity towards your company. Maybe you should search some of his threads about suspension, DV's and e85 to see who you actually had banned.

This original post was about a question regarding Max's control arms fitment. Not if they were better than Grooven arms and not where to buy them from.

I have a big turbo build thread using a kit that is from a forum member who is NOT an advertiser on VwVortex, but does run a business. You don't see Clay from CTS turbo popping up with a huge picture/text post about his turbo kits in my thread.


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

^^ truth said . 

Would be possible to receive pm with Max email? 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=29.318696,48.030927


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

ModsTTand said:


> ^^ truth said .
> 
> Would be possible to receive pm with Max email?
> 
> ...



Mods,

Ask and you shall receive :beer::beer::beer:

-Noah


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