# Ross-Tech guys.



## Vrdady (Feb 28, 2003)

Not sure if this has been asked yet. But I fully intend on buying an iPad and I thought of how much more convenient an iPad would be for use as my vag-com. Is there any plans or possibilities that you will work on software for it?


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

*Re: Ross-Tech guys. (Vrdady)*

Unlikely, since the iPad is an over-sized iPod Touch. 
Consider an HP Slate instead. ;-)
-Uwe-


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## jambo1 (Dec 1, 2006)

There are folks that have been able to run Windows 7 on the ipad. Wondering if this, plus the USB connector that Apple sells, could be used to access VCDS. So the success of running windows on the ipad opens up this possibility?


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

> There are folks that have been able to run Windows 7 on the ipad.


 Really? How is that possible when the processor in the iPad isn't even an x86? 

-Uwe-


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## Fox-N-It (Jul 23, 2003)

Emulation of course. 

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/188162/windows_7_on_an_ipad_yes_you_can.html


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## jambo1 (Dec 1, 2006)

Uwe said:


> Really? How is that possible when the processor in the iPad isn't even an x86?
> 
> -Uwe-


 Yes, I should have mentioned that this is possible virtually....


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

It's hard to say whether that will work or not. 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> Unlikely, since the iPad is an over-sized iPod Touch.
> Consider an HP Slate instead. ;-)
> -Uwe-


Why is it unlikely? As it is now the HP slate is rumored not to get Windows but webOS which surely would have less buyers than the iOS no?

Here I am in my 99 EV with my iPhone (typing this on it) and a CEL and geniune VAG-COM cable only one thing is missin 

Is the reluctantness to do this a personal preference of HW or/and OS'? I tshould be evident at this time that it would pay off financially. There's even WiFi OBD2 adapters now and with the new OS supporting at least BT keyboards maybe it will support other BT profiles too (soon?).

Love it or hate it it's pretty obvious that the iPhone is dominating the smartphone market and I wouldn't doubt that some garages would consider an iPad if it could be used with Vag-com?


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## Patman-TX (Jun 13, 2010)

I would have loved to been able to avoid buying a netbook mostly to run VCDS and just ran it on my MacBook but I've got a big toolbox and buying the tool for the job is just part of keeping it full I guess 

Really VCDS on an iPad would be awesome!


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Patman-TX said:


> I would have loved to been able to avoid buying a netbook mostly to run VCDS and just ran it on my MacBook but I've got a big toolbox and buying the tool for the job is just part of keeping it full I guess
> 
> Really VCDS on an iPad would be awesome!


There are a number of ways to run VCDS on your Macbook here are two options:
http://www.vmware.com/
http://www.parallels.com/
Don't think the ones that don't require actual Windows OS like CrossOver http://www.codeweavers.com/ will work, they even have it listed but as untested: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=2384

Yet I would very much love to have it on the iPad (or/and iPhone) also, that could make me go from this Hackintosh Netbook to the iPad for this kind of stuff.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

EV99 said:


> Why is it unlikely? As it is now the HP slate is rumored not to get Windows but webOS which surely would have less buyers than the iOS no?
> 
> Here I am in my 99 EV with my iPhone (typing this on it) and a CEL and geniune VAG-COM cable only one thing is missin
> 
> ...


Comment?


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

We have nothing against iPhones. Several of us here at Ross-Tech have and like them just fine. But there are other factors to be considered. For example, the last time I checked (and I'll admit this was a while ago) the iPhone SDK did not allow access to either BlueTooth or the I/O connector on the device. Furthermore, while iPhone OS is currently all the rage, I really wonder how long it will maintain that market share. Android is coming on strong, Blackberry still has a large and loyal following, and I doubt it's safe to count out Microsoft either with their upcoming Windows Phone 7 system. Hence we are rather reluctant to hitch our wagon to developing for platform which is unlikely to ever achieve the dominance that Windows has in the PC sphere. Instead, we have started to working on an approach to support mobile devices which will be completely platform independent. 

-Uwe-

PS: As far as iPads: A netbook running Windows costs less and does more!


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## penclnck (Jan 27, 2003)

Uwe said:


> PS: As far as iPads: A netbook running Windows costs less and does more!


Does more at the same time. Plus, rumor has it if you hold the iPad wrong, it drops. Which brings me to another point every time Apple fanboys pop up saying no to a cheap netbook because it has Windows:

Would you rather drop a cheap >$300 netbook or your shiny eye candy Apple iWhatever?

I've been using a Asus 1000h for a few years now in the shop, cheap and works great.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> For example, the last time I checked (and I'll admit this was a while ago) the iPhone SDK did not allow access to either BlueTooth or the I/O connector on the device.


Well as I pointed out above:


EV99 said:


> There's even WiFi OBD2 adapters now...


So there is no need to deal with BT or any I/O connections, *IF* one wanted to actually do this but it is pretty clear at this point that you really have zero interest in this. Why not just be honest and say so. 



Uwe said:


> We have nothing against iPhones. Several of us here at Ross-Tech have and like them just fine. .... Furthermore, while iPhone OS is currently all the rage, I really wonder how long it will maintain that market share. Android is coming on strong, Blackberry still has a large and loyal following, and I doubt it's safe to count out Microsoft either with their upcoming Windows Phone 7 system. Hence we are rather reluctant to hitch our wagon to developing for platform which is unlikely to ever achieve the dominance that Windows has in the PC sphere. Instead, we have started to working on an approach to support mobile devices which will be completely platform independent.


Well I wasn't really asking what smart phones you are any of your staff uses or likes, that is your personal choices, I was asking straight forward questions about you agenda with your software. Ok so as you claim Android is coming strong and Blackberry has a large and loyal following, when will you have software available for these platforms. Ok any such support for mobile devices would hence be using a WIFI OBD dongle as I mentioned above, correct?





Uwe said:


> As far as iPads: A netbook running Windows costs less and does more!


Personally I use a Dell Mini 9 with OSX and then VMWare for ETKA and Vagcom, works just fine, in fact OSX on it is a lot better then Windows on it even. The VMWare is running XP. I am not one to stare myself blind on price, if I were I wouldn't be driving VWs now would I . Fact is the iPad is not at all a mobile device as far as I am concerned, however it is my opinion that a capacitive screen (like the iPhone & iPad) is one of the best UIs for when you have somewhat dirty hands as you can just wipe it off and no harm done so to speak. Unlike any of my computers or other smart phones where my interaction has to be on a physical keyboard (which by the way I prefer as a UI just not when working on a car).

While I do not consider myself a fanboy and while I actually use a full qwerty smart phone as my main device and the iPhone as my second phone and more as an MID, I am very convinced that physical keyboard are on their deathbed (as little as I like that fact I believe it to be true).

So there I've expressed my thoughts 

Anyway a solution not tied to any OS, that then most likely would be through a browser type of interface and WIFI could really be revolutionary though!


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

penclnck said:


> Does more at the same time. Plus, rumor has it if you hold the iPad wrong, it drops. Which brings me to another point every time Apple fanboys pop up saying no to a cheap netbook because it has Windows:
> 
> Would you rather drop a cheap >$300 netbook or your shiny eye candy Apple iWhatever?
> 
> I've been using a Asus 1000h for a few years now in the shop, cheap and works great.


Problem with Netbooks lately is that the small and cheap ones are all gone  I love the 9" size, and they are all gone. iPad is (just like most iPhones, iP4 tad better but also more to break) extremely slippery, and I always use full rubber casing on the back of these devices, then they are ideal around cars. I also will NOT buy an iPad at it's retail/new price. I've bought a couple ones used in the $350-400 range which while high is acceptable. 

I had every single EEE model Asus came out with until they stopped doing 9" starting with the 701 loved all of them when they came out, then settled for the Dell Mini 9 that felt more refined and thanks to Dell's own outlet store could be had for $250 directly from them, and a Runcore 32GB SSD added some $100+ and 2GB of RAM brought the whole thing to just under $400, and it is my allaround netbook now for over a year (very long time for me ).

I do also have a 5" OQO 02 I use for Vagcom but most likely selling it for the new Viliv N5 now. Google the names if you haven't heard of them


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

EV99 said:


> > There's even WiFi OBD2 adapters now...
> 
> 
> So there is no need to deal with BT or any I/O connections, *IF* one wanted to actually do this but it is pretty clear at this point that you really have zero interest in this. Why not just be honest and say so.


Because that's not the case. 



Uwe said:


> Instead, we have started to working on an approach to support mobile devices which will be completely platform independent.


I suppose you missed that part?

Unfortunately, none of the existing ("off the shelf") Wifi "OBD2" modules have enough oomph on-board to what we need. 



EV99 said:


> Ok so as you claim Android is coming strong


Yep. Android-based phones now out-sell the iPhone.



=EV99 said:


> when will you have software available for these platforms.


Never. Read what I've written previously on the subject. I have not and do not believe it makes sense to develop diagnostic software for countless different incompatible platforms. However, that does not mean we aren't working on a solution to support those devices in a platform-independent way. Here's the equivalent of 2000 more words on the subject for you:



















-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> Because that's not the case.


What exactly is not the case? There are a number of apps available that use OBD2 over WiFi already, so I am not sure what you mean by "the case".




Uwe said:


> I suppose you missed that part?


That part as in what? My last sentence stated this:
"Anyway a solution not tied to any OS, that then most likely would be through a browser type of interface and WIFI could really be revolutionary though!" Did *you* miss that part? 



Uwe said:


> Unfortunately, none of the existing ("off the shelf") Wifi "OBD2" modules have enough oomph on-board to what we need.


This is digital communication we are talking about not an amplified signal to some speakers , not sure what "oomph" you would be needing for digital communication!?





Uwe said:


> Yep. Android-based phones now out-sell the iPhone.


Don't fall victim for sly marketing (which btw Apple are experts at too), while I personally don't care what OS outsells what I go for what works well, for instance my main smartphone uses an OS that is one of the least known one out there and now a dead one (company got bought up by MS who literally killed the OS). The Android "out-sell iPhone" statistics was based on an estimated statistics from the first half of 2010, i.e. excluding SOLD units, and focusing only on "selling" units during that time. Taking into account that this was months before the release of the new iPhone and leakage of such during that time, just made for the "perfect time" to achieve the best numbers.

If one has an agenda to make numbers match one's agenda that can always be achieved especially with % and if you use a short time slot. Again for me I couldn't care less which OS sells the best. Most def VW or Audi don't have the highest market share among automotive brands in the US either, yet them I stick to. 




Uwe said:


> Never. Read what I've written previously on the subject.


So why even bring these other OS' into the topic if as you say:

A) You're not biased against the iPhone
B) Will never develop anything for these OS' specifically




Uwe said:


> I have not and do not believe it makes sense to develop diagnostic software for countless different incompatible platforms. However, that does not mean we aren't working on a solution to support those devices in a platform-independent way. Here's the equivalent of 2000 more words on the subject for you:


Yes I agree 100% and think it is very beneficial for you (and Ross-Tech) that this information comes out that you have something like this "in the oven" so that users of the PC based software you make that are keeping their eyes and ears open for more mobile solutions can see you're working on it. As I stated in my previous post I most def believe this will be revolutionary. But since you (seem to have) indicate(d) that it won't be using WIFI (or just not currently commercially available WIFI units) are you looking to use BT then? Or should I understand this as you are developing your OWN WIFI unit that will just like with the current cables have the "copy protection" (aka dongle) built-in? Which I personally feel is a very good solution.

[EDIT] Looking at the pics again it appears like the BT is not being used on the iP so I would assume we are talking about communication over WiFi, that would be extremely neat!

P.S. I have thought about this at length at times, and that if one had a Wifi dongle, a smart phone with Wifi *&* WWAN data capability, remote troubleshooting could be done for a customer by a garage he uses and trusts and allows to do that. Kind of like a OBD2 VNC 



Uwe said:


> -Uwe-


Real stuff or just PS stuff as you posted when the iPhone was released?


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

Real stuff. Admittedly in prototype stage and still quite a ways from being available, but absolutely nothing fake about it.



Uwe said:


> Because that's not the case.


Was in reply to:



EV99 said:


> it is pretty clear at this point that you really have zero interest in this. Why not just be honest and say so.


Other points:



EV99 said:


> This is digital communication we are talking about not an amplified signal to some speakers , not sure what "oomph" you would be needing for digital communication!?


Little things like dual-K lines which are needed to support certain Audi models, the ability to handle manufacturer-specific protocols (not just generic OBD-II) , and the processing power and memory on-board to not require a platform-specific app on the mobile device in question.



EV99 said:


> I personally don't care what OS outsells what


OS market share tremendously is tremendously important if one is is in the niche software business like we are. This is why our platform-specific product is Windows-based; not because we love Microsoft, but because Windows has an overwhelming market share, meaning almost everyone already has a device capable of running our software. This is also why we've never developed anything specifically for mobile devices, because no mobile OS has ever had that kind of market share. Fortunately, technology has now progressed to the point where that's no longer an issue. 

What we have in the lab is indeed Wifi-based, and should work with any modern mobile device, without requiring us to write diagnostic software for all those different, incompatible platforms. Of course, it will also work with the full-up version of VCDS on a Windows PC. 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> Real stuff. Admittedly in prototype stage and still quite a ways from being available, but absolutely nothing fake about it.


Fantastic! See how you now managed to turn this into a very positive topic?  THANKS!



Uwe said:


> OS market share tremendously is tremendously important if one is is in the niche software business like we are. This is why our platform-specific product is Windows-based; not because we love Microsoft, but because Windows has an overwhelming market share, meaning almost everyone already has a device capable of running our software. This is also why we've never developed anything specifically for mobile devices, because no mobile OS has ever had that kind of market share. Fortunately, technology has now progressed to the point where that's no longer an issue.


Oh yes I very much understand this, I have tried to have some other (not car related) niche SW to be developed for some very small OS, but obviously there was no interest. However when it comes to mobile OS' MS isn't really on top any more, and I dare to say not everyone has a pocketable MS driven device laying around anymore, I even recently sold my Dell x51v before it became worthless, just some year ago they were still worth several hundreds. Well yeah exactly as you just said. I have a habit of replying sentence by sentence  not the best habit always 



Uwe said:


> What we have in the lab is indeed Wifi-based, and should work with any modern mobile device, without requiring us to write diagnostic software for all those different, incompatible platforms. Of course, it will also work with the full-up version of VCDS on a Windows PC.
> 
> -Uwe-


WOW fantastic, am I just in the dark and haven't followed your posts much or have you not really revealed this much before? Any hope one could see it in the first week of November... hint hint


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## daniel.ramirez (Nov 24, 2001)

Uwe said:


> PS: As far as iPads: A netbook running Windows costs less and does more!


Couldn't agree more! (and I'm an Apple fanboy)


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

daniel.ramirez said:


> Couldn't agree more! (and I'm an Apple fanboy)


I agree with a twist, prefer Netbooks with OSX  aka Hackintosh.


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## Moltenburn (Jun 29, 2010)

I just got my VCDS cord and have been using my netbook Acer. I tried using my beast laptop but just to damn big.

The acer works sweet and it is nothing to brag about, 2 year old netbook stripped to the bones w/ only firefox and VCDS.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> Real stuff. Admittedly in prototype stage and still quite a ways from being available, but absolutely nothing fake about it.
> -Uwe-


 I ask once more  : 



EV99 said:


> ....Any hope one could see it in the first week of November... hint hint


 P.S. Are you aware that the latest trend of WIFI only Android devices do not have Google Market access, only the ones with WWAN has Market access. 

P.P.S. I understand you no longer use "Vag-com" but it does say Vag-com here:


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> Real stuff. Admittedly in prototype stage and still quite a ways from being available, but absolutely nothing fake about it.


How long of a way still until it might become available? Didn't see any hint of it at your booth the past few days


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## scenturion (Apr 11, 2009)

Uwe said:


> What we have in the lab is indeed Wifi-based, and should work with any modern mobile device, without requiring us to write diagnostic software for all those different, incompatible platforms. Of course, it will also work with the full-up version of VCDS on a Windows PC.
> -Uwe-


Oh wow... now I have this awful foreboding that I won't be able to help myself spend $$$ to upgrade my HEX-CAN...

Keep up the good work, guys :beer:


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## feelinjunky (Aug 12, 2009)

iphone is outdated and old. Get with the times and get a DROID. DroidX rips apple a new one. Where's your 720p camera? HDMI out? Oh, I forgot, it's apple.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

feelinjunky said:


> iphone is outdated and old. _*Get with the times*_ and get a DROID. DroidX rips apple a new one. _*Where's your 720p camera?*_


Get with the times? Hmm what do you mean exactly 
"Video recording, HD (720p)"
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

Where? In my right pocket  in my left pocket I have another phone with a completely different OS so as to have the "best of two worlds"  no phone is perfect nor is any device nor car 



feelinjunky said:


> HDMI out? Oh, I forgot, it's apple.


May I ask where you use HDMI out? There's a number of known issues and limitations with DroidX's HDMI out unless you hack it or/and use 3rd party SW to bypass them. 

I do use Android also mainly on tablets, but unfortunately for now it's not adapted to the tablet format very well so one has to tweek it in various ways to get it to work nicely. Samsung Galaxy Tab is my favorite Android device right now.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> For example, the last time I checked (and I'll admit this was a while ago) the iPhone SDK *did not allow access to* either BlueTooth or the* I/O connector on the device*.


Has this changed now? Especially since there are accessories like this now:
http://gopointtech.com/blog/2009/10/13/golink-is-worlds-first-obd-ii-iphone-accessory/


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

To be honest, I don't know. One of the problems with Apple is that they keep changing their mind. Remember when the iPhone first came out, they weren't going to allow any real apps at all; everything was supposed to be done through the browser. In an case, we're not going to develop something specifically for Apple devices.

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> To be honest, I don't know.


Ok?



Uwe said:


> One of the problems with Apple is that they keep changing their mind. Remember when the iPhone first came out, they weren't going to allow any real apps at all; everything was supposed to be done through the browser.


Actually I do not remember that, yes I remember that was the case early on, but I have never run across any press release indicating that this would remain the case, in fact Apple hired people from Danger Inc during that time in order that they could develop the app store as they had for the Danger powered devices. Sounds like you might have relied a bit too much on biased media reports 



Uwe said:


> In an case, we're not going to develop something specifically for Apple devices.
> 
> -Uwe-


Well you made that clear some time ago already  but that's ok there are several other companies that are and already have and they are becoming mainstream more and more.

Now as for your BROWSER BASED solution, I asked a few times above what time frame we might be looking at are we talking months or years?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

There is no time frame. That's why you have not gotten an answer and also why you won't get one. Our policy has usually been not to announce things before they are ready, this is one of the exceptions which have IMO already proven that we should stick to that and keep things non-public as long as possible because otherwise people expect us to have certain things finished at a specific time of their choosing. The danger with that is that such things quickly become something which never becomes reality just because at some point an information was spilled too early...

Many at Ross-Tech are working longer than 8 hours a day, some even put 9-10 or more hours in on a daily basis. What I am trying to say is, there is only so much time you have each day and some times real/personal life comes first no matter if you lave what you do for a living or not.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Theresias said:


> There is no time frame. That's why you have not gotten an answer and also why you won't get one.


Well you have actually given an answer though without any time frame that wasn't so hard now was it? To give a response that is 




Theresias said:


> Our policy has usually been not to announce things before they are ready, this is one of the exceptions which have IMO already proven that we should stick to that and keep things non-public as long as possible because otherwise people expect us to have certain things finished at a specific time of their choosing. The danger with that is that such things quickly become something which never becomes reality just because at some point an information was spilled too early...


Yes naturally just like even Apple does why some might have been confused and thought there never would be native running 3rd party apps 



Theresias said:


> Many at Ross-Tech are working longer than 8 hours a day, some even put 9-10 or more hours in on a daily basis. What I am trying to say is, there is only so much time you have each day and some times real/personal life comes first no matter if you lave what you do for a living or not.


Yes of course but this is really only a question of having/using sufficient resources. Bottom line is despite my somewhat sarcastic approach I use your product and like it a lot I also follow very closely with how the gadget market moves on and it is extremely rapid right now my wish is that you can be ahead or at least with the curve as it has huge potential right now.


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## feelinjunky (Aug 12, 2009)

EV99 said:


> Actually *I do not remember* that, *yes I remember* that


You have contradicted yourself.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

feelinjunky said:


> You have contradicted yourself.


I do *not* remember Apple changing their mind, as I said I never have ran across any press release by Apple indicating that they never plan to allow natively running 3rd party apps. I *do* remember that web based apps were the only ones abailable to begin with. I am NOT good with words no doubt


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## bazzle (Sep 17, 2008)

"Thread Closed"


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

> Jobs also announced that Apple Safari, Apple's proprietary web browser, would run on the iPhone; and that Apple (at the time) *had no plans to release an iPhone SDK*, meaning that developers would have to use standard web protocols.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Developers_Conference#WWDC_2007

Sorry but IMO, The SDK was a _reaction_ to the jailbreaks, and I suspect the Open Handset Alliance (Android) announcement in November of 2007 may have had something to do with it as well. 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_Developers_Conference#WWDC_2007
> 
> Sorry but IMO, The SDK was a _reaction_ to the jailbreaks, and I suspect the Open Handset Alliance (Android) announcement in November of 2007 may have had something to do with it as well.
> 
> -Uwe-


While I love and use wiki daily, it is open for anyone to insert their (IM*O*)*pinion* by clicking EDIT  As I am sure you know  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/UweRoss

Now be this however it is really, I personally must say I appreciate someone who is ready to be willing to change and adapt to changes that happen very rapidly in today's world, opposed to someone who might stick to some "hangups" or outdated ideas. 

On this subject take VWoA for example, I think any VW enthusiast would like VWoA to change their mind on a number of subjects and wouldn't see such a move as a bad thing? 

But hey I should shut up now so you can spend your time on what is more important that is develop the next (read mobile ) generation of VCDS! :thumbup:


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/cartrip


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

What does that have to do with VW/Audi diagnostics? It's strictly generic OBD-II, and hence rather off-topic here. 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Technically speaking it should be doable at this time  

VW specific or generic is mainly a SW question not as much a HW question. Just teasing and showing that the iOS & OBD category is seeing progress  you've already made it clear about your personal feeling about this platform. 

Anyway any possible news that can be stated here in public on the approach you mentioned on the previous pg?


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

> VW specific or generic is mainly a SW question not as much a HW question.


 In theory that's true, but in practice it's not. Where does hardware end and software begin? There's almost no device extant which is pure hardware anymore; certainly not one which can talk on CAN, or run some of VW's very timing-critical protocols reliably over a wireless connection. 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

EV99 said:


> Anyway any possible news that can be stated here in public on the approach you mentioned on the previous pg?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

When it's done.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

So is there a new Ross-Tech device for the I-phony.

If so i must have one.

I will then buy my first apple product to add to historic RT collection.


Earnings out this week OM what will JOBS do now?

I will announce my health is failing and need to leave so people can short the stock during US holiday weekend in overseas market. Sounds feasible right?

Yay! I say for late night Friday.


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## scenturion (Apr 11, 2009)

vwemporium said:


> So is there a new Ross-Tech device for the I-phony.
> 
> If so i must have one.
> 
> ...


:laugh:


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Theresias said:


> When it's done.


Ok thank you, this response would at least confirm something is cooking


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

Doesn't mean much. Not every cooking experiment actually ends up being a 3 course dinner.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Theresias said:


> Doesn't mean much. Not every cooking experiment actually ends up being a 3 course dinner.



Well I don't care much for appetizers or deserts anyhow so  I only care for the MAIN course


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

Anyhow, it would help if there is no constant asking what may come, if it comes, what the status is or when it will happen. If sth. is cooking then it will be ready when it's ready. Not before, not after. Answering speculative questions does not speed up the cooking process, it actually draws attention away from the important things.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Theresias said:


> Anyhow, it would help if there is no constant asking what may come, if it comes, what the status is or when it will happen. If sth. is cooking then it will be ready when it's ready. Not before, not after. Answering speculative questions does not speed up the cooking process, it actually draws attention away from the important things.


It would help who with what?

Well the analogy with cooking might be out of place if we look at the time frame involved. 

What _your_ attention is drawn by is entirely up to....*you*! 

The flip side of this is, that it does help to show that there is interest (or not!) in such a product. Without interest from the public it would be senseless to spend time on it. Most companies who develop product are very interested in so called "feelers" to get a sense of what kind of priority it should get and in what fashion.

The opening post of this thread (soon to be a year ago) stated the below, so I think the topic is completely still on track, no?



Vrdady said:


> Not sure if this has been asked yet. But I fully intend on buying an iPad and I thought of how much more convenient an iPad would be for use as my vag-com. Is there any plans or possibilities that you will work on software for it?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

EV99 said:


> What _your_ attention is drawn by is entirely up to....*you*!


Indeed. 

Time to ignore this topic and get back to work.


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

"_A watched pot never boils._"

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> "_A watched pot never boils._"
> 
> -Uwe-



...seems to me this *top*ic aah sorry (ci)*pot* is boiling constantly


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Has the idea of putting the whole x86 computer part INSIDE the OBD cable at all been "on the table"? Is that even an idea that could work? x86 boards have become relatively small and affordable nowadays. Something like this:


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## zeroboy (Sep 3, 2005)

Good idea...then the Ipad/ Iphone/ Tablet is just the GUI ?


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

> Has the idea of putting the whole x86 computer part INSIDE the OBD cable at all been "on the table"? Is that even an idea that could work? x86 boards have become relatively small and affordable nowadays.


 Nope, using X86 for that would be silly. There are far better architectures for embedded stuff. 



> Good idea...then the Ipad/ Iphone/ Tablet is just the GUI ?


 Bingo! We have a winner! 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> Nope, using X86 for that would be silly. There are far better architectures for embedded stuff.


I was just thinking "out loud" since I believe you earlier pointed out the problem of having to re-write your SW for new/other architectures, with this solution you wouldn't have to re-write anything.

Currently your products only work on x86 correct?
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/faq_1.html#PC-Requirements

I believe that's why this whole thread was started no? To ask for your products to support other than x86 architectures, no? 

So your are working on embedded solutions? 



Uwe said:


> Bingo! We have a winner!
> 
> -Uwe-


I believe Zeroboy was referring to my post about x86? No?

Well now with MS officially stating that (codenamed) Win8 will support ARM, we might be looking at a completely different situation next year no?

If Win8 in any form (even as a VM or part(s) there of) will run on ARM, this would help your endeavors no?

Actually you've got me thinking now, adding an x86 to the cable end of things, and even just hooking up through a (local wifi then) VNC for my mobile could be a relatively simple "DIY" project that could even be done by someone on their own.


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

Since VCDS is written in C++, it isn't really all the dependent on x86; heck we've been shipping full-up AMD64 builds for more than a year now, and this pretty much proves our code isn't tied to a specific processor architecture. The issue is far more the fact that every operating system has it's own unique API for its UI, and our existing code is pretty tightly integrated with the MFC UI classes for Windows. So if there was a real Windows for ARM CPUs it would probably be reasonably straightforward to recompile our code for it and have a full-up VCDS working on it.

Of course, iOS has a completely different API for its UI, while Android has yet another, as does basically every other operating system in existence. The fact that we do not want to have to spend the rest of our lives integrating our code with the all the different UI APIs for all the various mobile OSs (none of which have the kind of overwhelmingly dominant market share that Windows has on PCs) is why we are taking the approach we are.

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> The fact that we do not want to have to spend the rest of our lives integrating our code with the all the different UI APIs for all the various mobile OSs (none of which have the kind of overwhelmingly dominant market share that Windows has on PCs) is why we are taking the approach we are.
> 
> -Uwe-


Why I asked if stuffing a full windows capable board into the OBD2 cable housing has ever "been on the table"?  sort of what this company is doing but the other way around  http://cuppcomputing.com/ (with food references to your liking )


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

> Why I asked if stuffing a full windows capable board into the OBD2 cable housing has ever "been on the table"?


No, it has not. We don't think that would be cost-effective, nor do we want/need all the baggage that would bring. 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> No, it has not. We don't think that would be cost-effective, nor do we want/need all the baggage that would bring.
> 
> -Uwe-


Well these boards are very afforadable nowadays so the cost shouldn't be an issue if sourced correctly/directly and in appropriate qtys, and the customer is the one who would "carry" that cost (+markup) anyhow and would save plenty of hours of programming, as for "baggage" shouldn't have any more than running Windows in a virtual machine as you recommend for alternative OS users. 

But as you said it hasn't been "on your table" so I can draw the conclusion that your company therefore has not looked into the costs or baggage involved? 

Thanks though for replying to the original question!


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

> as for "baggage" shouldn't have any more than running Windows in a virtual machine as you recommend for alternative OS users.


Huh? We've never _recommended_ running Windows in a virtual machine; in fact if you look at our FAQ, we specifically state that we don't support that. That doesn't mean it can't or won't work; it simply means don't ask us for help if it doesn't. What we recommend for Macs is to to use Bootcamp, which runs Windows natively. 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> Huh? We've never _recommended_ running Windows in a virtual machine; in fact if you look at our FAQ, we specifically state that we don't support that. That doesn't mean it can't or won't work; it simply means don't ask us for help if it doesn't. What we recommend for Macs is to to use Bootcamp, which runs Windows natively.
> 
> -Uwe-


I am sorry for not being up to date on what you recommend and not, bootcamp sort of defeats the whole purpose of using an alternative OS computer due to the combersome procedure of rebooting. Today with more and more people using instant on mobile devices less and less are willing to do that and wait. In fact VMs have come a long way so far in fact that their benefits outway in many cases the use of "real" machines. Your software runs just fine on both native OSX HW aswell as popular netbooks with which it works, yes I used for several years a Dell Mini 9 that was designed for Windows with OSX and in turn VMware on it with VCDS (is it? I keep talking about Vag-Com still). In fact there are many server enterprises today that prefer VMs over traditional ones for a number of reasons.

Usually it's the VM SW provider that supports these programs anyhow as it is their goal that it will work just like a real Windows machine so it doesn't really require you to offer any support. Just like someone wouldn't contact MS if they had prbs with Wim on a VM they would contact the VM supplier.


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## zeroboy (Sep 3, 2005)

Are we still talking about this? I understand each side of this, and see how mobiles devices and numerous developers would make investing, time, capital, research, development, production in an operating system that isn't proven seem risky and probably not easy to justify. 
Admittedly windows isn't going away- so have to stay on track there.
And You probably don't even need to develop a full Android application, someone is likely going to do it for you without your permission ~ I haven't checked, maybe it's been done!? Imitation is the purest form of flattery, right?
But I bet Apple / IOS isn't going away either, the market is getting bigger i think. I've never owned an Apple product until now- but With tablet sales increasing I think an IOS interface is probably inevitable. Windows has to be completely overhauled to compete with Apple on the mobile device market.
I'll wait though, ...try and be patient.


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## bmw511 (Jul 16, 2010)

Just to chime in, I've tried using Windows in a VM for VCDS and it doesn't run all that great, I usually have trouble communicating with modules. For the best performance I used Boot Camp on my Mac to switch directly into Windows natively. Runs much better that way.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

bmw511 said:


> Just to chime in, I've tried using Windows in a VM for VCDS and it doesn't run all that great, I usually have trouble communicating with modules. For the best performance I used Boot Camp on my Mac to switch directly into Windows natively. Runs much better that way.


What VM software do you use? I haven't had any problem at all with VMware 3.1.3 on neither Mac nor Hackintoshes.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe,

Maybe this belongs in a separate thread, but I'll throw it in here for now hopefully no one gets too upset . So, is there any wireless USB device you are aware of that works with your current USB cable(s)?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

No.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Theresias said:


> No.


No to what part? You being Uwe? This belonging in another thread? No one getting upset? There BEING such a wireless USB device? Or you being AWARE of such a device?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

Sorry, wasn't aware you were having trouble with connecting your straight forward question...



EV99 said:


> is there any wireless USB device you are aware of that works with your current USB cable(s)?


...and my straight forward answer.



Theresias said:


> No.


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

There was only one actual question in the post which Sebastian answered, but since it appears that you think your own post was so poorly written that you you cannot parse parse the meaning of a binary reply, I'll be more explicit:

We are not aware of any wireless USB devices which work with our current USB cables. 

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Theresias said:


> Sorry, wasn't aware you were having trouble with connecting your straight forward question...
> 
> 
> 
> ...and my straight forward answer.


I am only trying to not assume anything but to get the facts whenever possible. If you are not able to for whatever reason to give an answer I can live with that "answer" also. So you NO to the question:



EV99 said:


> So, is there any wireless USB device you are aware of that works with your current USB cable(s)?


Does it mean:

A) You have tried or others that you know of have tried and NONE of them have worked, so the chances are next to zero it would work?
B) You know because of technical reasons that it CAN NOT work?
C) You are NOT AWARE of any that would work?


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)

C.

-Uwe-


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> There was only one actual question in the post which Sebastian answered, but since it appears that you think your own post was so poorly written that you you cannot parse parse the meaning of a binary reply, I'll be more explicit:
> 
> We are not aware of any wireless USB devices which work with our current USB cables.
> 
> -Uwe-


I do not _think_ my question was poorly written I _know so_, all of my questions are poorly "written" (and spoken too for that matter) and I have no problem humbly stating/accepting that this is a fact, I don't want it to be like that but it's just a bit of my "history".



Uwe said:


> We are not aware of any wireless USB devices which work with our current USB cables.
> -Uwe-


THANK YOU! This means I might try/test some of them


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Got my next "pocketable Vag-Com" tool  5" / 0.96lbs (435g) / 6 hour battery little Windows machine


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Uwe said:


> C.
> 
> -Uwe-


5 month bump, any news?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

Did you see anything on our website?

http://ross-tech.com/news.html

No? Well, then there are no news.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Theresias said:


> Did you see anything on our website?
> 
> http://ross-tech.com/news.html
> 
> No? Well, then there are no news.


..nor is any other statement or topic posted in this thread by Ross-Tech to be found on that page so what should I conclude from that then?


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## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

What about concluding the obvious as a start? There are no news.

Without trying to be rude, you seem to have missed what has been written between the lines so let me try to make it clear. Please leave this be until there is an official announcement. Thanks.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

Theresias said:


> What about concluding the obvious as a start? There are no news..


On the contrary we have already been informed months ago that there _*is*_ news, in this thread! News is only information doesn't have to mean there is an actual release of something . 



Theresias said:


> Without trying to be rude you seem to have missed what has been written between the lines so let me try to make it clear. Please leave this be until there is an official announcement. Thanks.


Without trying to be rude in return, you and anyone else from Ross-tech has had the possibility of completely ignoring this thread from the start, and currently, no? 

If the thread needs to be locked, have it be locked or archived and that's that, simple!

As long as the thread is not locked or archived I believe I am free to post anything I wish in here that is within the guidelines of this site? No?


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## instigator31 (Jun 20, 2011)

Honestly is this thread still going...come one - let it die.


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## EV99 (Nov 27, 2009)

instigator31 said:


> Honestly is this thread still going...come one - let it die.


...your reply just brought it to the top again


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## Uwe (Jan 16, 2000)




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