# How best to improve 2015 A3 non-sport suspension?



## nonsequitur (Nov 7, 2015)

_(I'd previously "posted" this, but after 12-18 hours of delay, it finally showed up in the wrong forum - and not a forum I ever read. Asked for it to be moved, but it hasn't happened, so I'm re-posting my own post, hopefully it shows up in the A3, S3, RS 3 (MQB, 8V) forum this time...)_

I have an otherwise wonderful 2015 A3 2.0TFSI Premium I bought CPO for a good price (in no small part because of the extended CPO warranty).
I've previously owned a 2003 A4, and prior to that a 1997 A6 - both with Sport Suspensions (the models keep getting larger and I don't like it)

Now, I'm older, and not as aggressive as I once was, but still appreciate a stable, level cornering capability.
Problem is, the non-sport suspension isn't as good as I'd like. I'd like it more level in corners, more stable.

My assumptions:

#1) I gathered that this car benefits from upgrading the RSB moreso than the FSB. (true?)

#2) I also read the thread that someone very helpfully posted that the differences between the Std and Sport suspension was the springs, FSB & RSB.

#3) The greater travel the springs have, the less stiffness is required in the RSB. (I believe this is true in general) 

Therefore, I'm wondering if I upgrade just the RSB to the OEM Sport RSB, keeping the non-sport springs, would I gain stability and level cornering?

I know upgrading to the OEM Sport springs will lower the car - which will lower the center of gravity, and therefore improve handling (and look better), but despite that, I don't really have any burning desire to lower it.

Looking for guidance on if just upgrading the RSB is worthwhile, or if I should upgrade the springs as well?
Because I can change the RSB for about $100. If I do the springs as well, that's Springs, both RSB & FSB I suppose, +labor, +alignment, etc.
Then there's the question of whether upgrading to OEM Sport is enough - or why not go to coil-overs, etc. It's a slippery, expensive, slope, as you all know.

(and as my buddy at work pointed out - I haven't even test driven the Sport Suspension - so I have to do that)

Does anyone have an informed opinion? I'd appreciate it!
Thx in advance - I realize suspension upgrades has been covered elsewhere, but not from this angle, I think.

-NS


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## iceorbital (Jul 2, 2011)

i have the sports suspension and i feel the same (as compared to my other car, a golf r). Some recommendations on this thread. http://forums.fourtitude.com/showth...uattro-with-sport-suspension-seeing-body-roll 

Wondering if you could share the link to #2?


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

I'd say aftermarket spot springs (H&R or Neuspeed) + Bilstein B8 shocks or the Bilstein B14 coilover would be your best bet...


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## nonsequitur (Nov 7, 2015)

> Wondering if you could share the link to #2?


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ighlight=same+sports+springs+bar#post87435799

This was Posted by Devin / DBVeeDB: (I can't immediately find where someone confirmed the shock p/n, but I think someone had)



> Had some time after work today to jack the car up and look at the sway bar(s). What I found was to my surprise/liking.
> 
> Rear Sway Bar Part #: 5Q0 511 305 BE, approx. 21.8mm OD at the center of the car.
> Front Sway Bar Part #: 5Q0 411 303 R, approx. 24.4mm OD near the front endlink.
> ...


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## aj8 (Aug 28, 2014)

I'm interested in this as well. H&R sport springs didn't work well with my stock suspension (bouncy) but I'd still like to limit body roll.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

aj8 said:


> I'm interested in this as well. H&R sport springs didn't work well with my stock suspension (bouncy) but I'd still like to limit body roll.


Cheapest way will be to add Bilstein B8 shocks to your setup...


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## aj8 (Aug 28, 2014)

VWNCC said:


> Cheapest way will be to add Bilstein B8 shocks to your setup...


Did a bit of research but still looking for the best price. Any suggestions?


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

aj8 said:


> Did a bit of research but still looking for the best price. Any suggestions?


If I were you (already have H&R springs), I'd either change my stock shocks to Bilstein B8 or Koni Yellow (they are also out for the MQB now). I personally would choose Bilstein B8 as I am more of a "set it and forget it" kinda guy, so I would never use the adjustability of the Koni.


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## nonsequitur (Nov 7, 2015)

OP here,...So, nobody thinks either simply upgrading my RSB to the 21mm OEM bar, while keeping the non-sport springs would be a good combo?

Or even simply upgrading to OEM sport springs and OEM 21mm RSB?

I imagine there would be lots of folks selling their OEM sport springs take-offs? That would be a cheaper way to get a bit better than my non-sport suspension, no?


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

nonsequitur said:


> OP here,...So, nobody thinks either simply upgrading my RSB to the 21mm OEM bar, while keeping the non-sport springs would be a good combo?
> 
> Or even simply upgrading to OEM sport springs and OEM 21mm RSB?
> 
> I imagine there would be lots of folks selling their OEM sport springs take-offs? That would be a cheaper way to get a bit better than my non-sport suspension, no?


If you are set on RSB, you might want to consider the H&R one instead of the OEM ones, it would be cheaper and you will get better handling.


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## nonsequitur (Nov 7, 2015)

VWNCC said:


> If you are set on RSB, you might want to consider the H&R one instead of the OEM ones, it would be cheaper and you will get better handling.



Well, I'm not "set" on an RSB - I asked for informed opinions about whether the modest RSB upgrade without upgrading springs would work well (meaning, would it improve anything without creating new problems).

I don't doubt that the H&R 25mm RSB would handle better (at least, with upgraded springs)- but it certainly won't be cheaper! $270 for the H&R vs $100 (typically less) for the OEM 21mm.

You mention you have H&R springs - Sport, I assume? Did you find it underdamped with the OEM shocks? Or have you upgraded those as well?


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

nonsequitur said:


> Well, I'm not "set" on an RSB - I asked for informed opinions about whether the modest RSB upgrade without upgrading springs would work well (meaning, would it improve anything without creating new problems).
> 
> I don't doubt that the H&R 25mm RSB would handle better (at least, with upgraded springs)- but it certainly won't be cheaper! $270 for the H&R vs $100 (typically less) for the OEM 21mm.
> 
> You mention you have H&R springs - Sport, I assume? Did you find it underdamped with the OEM shocks? Or have you upgraded those as well?


I think the consensus is that upgrading RSB alone should improve handling. I can't think of any reason why it would create new problems unless the installation wasn't done properly.

I am surprised by the price you mentioned for the OEM 21mm, unless it is through some 3rd party or used, OEM parts are pretty much never cheaper than aftermarket ones.

I do not have H&R springs, aj8 is the person you are thinking of. Some people are satisfied with the H&R springs with OEM shocks but some others have mentioned that they are noticeably more bouncy (see aj8's post above), so if you are sensitive to these things, I wouldn't get springs alone.

I am waiting for the B12 kit and if I am still not satisfied with the handling, I'd then get the H&R RSB.


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## nonsequitur (Nov 7, 2015)

VWNCC said:


> I think the consensus is that upgrading RSB alone should improve handling. I can't think of any reason why it would create new problems unless the installation wasn't done properly.
> 
> I am surprised by the price you mentioned for the OEM 21mm, unless it is through some 3rd party or used, OEM parts are pretty much never cheaper than aftermarket ones.
> 
> ...


Actually, ECS has p/n 5Q0511305BE for $100.95:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3_8V-Quattro-2.0T/Suspension/Sway_Bar/ES2743092/

Sorry, I made an error - perhaps aj8 can provide insight?

Actually, upgrading a RSB can have severe negative impact on the car's cornering behavior, as well as obviously on the harshness felt when hitting bumps or potholes on one side.
Then there's the effects it can have, relative to the front bar and springs. It's all interactive. Typically, RSB upgrades are seen as necessary to maintain a ride quality when lowering/stiffening the springs. I know this from experience, but the A3 is a new platform for me - so I was hoping to gain insight from someone with experience specific to the A3.

Since you haven't yet upgraded your (non-sport, correct?) A3 suspension, I thank you for your advice and leave it at that.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

nonsequitur said:


> Actually, ECS has p/n 5Q0511305BE for $110/95:
> https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3_8V-Quattro-2.0T/Suspension/Sway_Bar/ES2743092/
> 
> Sorry, I made an error - perhaps aj8 can provide insight?
> ...


Thanks for the link. I will definitely get the RSB once the B12 is out. Interesting...

Yea, nonsport....I have one of those "weird" S-line cars with standard suspension....the first batch...:laugh:


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## nonsequitur (Nov 7, 2015)

VWNCC said:


> Yea, nonsport....I have one of those "weird" S-line cars with standard suspension....the first batch...:laugh:


it is pretty hurtful when you hear the sport suspension was a $250 option.

I bought the loaner for the great price that included NAV & rear camera, & CPO warranty. Figured I can always upgrade the suspension later.
- but cheapness is a strong trait...


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

nonsequitur said:


> it is pretty hurtful when you hear the sport suspension was a $250 option.
> 
> I bought the loaner for the great price that included NAV & rear camera, & CPO warranty. Figured I can always upgrade the suspension later.
> - but cheapness is a strong trait...


You got a good deal and considering that sport suspension and S3 owners still upgrade their suspension, one probably needs to upgrade regardless anyways...once upgraded, your suspension will be better than OEM sport and S3 suspension.


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

Y'all should also look into getting some better swaybar endlinks. 

I upgraded mine to the 034 links and cornering defiantly felt more firm 

The oem front endlinks are a joke


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## ThorMjolnir (Apr 9, 2014)

*Bilstein B16 PSS10*

Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers well worth the money. The link below is about the lowest price on the net. Can control ride height, compression, and suspension all with the turn of a knob, which imo is worth the money in itself as you will never have to pay for labor again to adjust any of the aformentioned. Also, 10 different ride settings and changing ride height at will is just great fun. Can find your perfect sweet spot for daily/spirited driving and for track. It doesn't get any better.

https://www.bks-tuning.com/bilstein-b16-pss10-coilover-audi-a3-s3-8v.html


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## will13k7 (Aug 30, 2015)

ThorMjolnir said:


> Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers well worth the money.


+1 PSS10's will transform your suspension and you can dial in the aggressiveness or comfort as you prefer. this will keep your car flat in the corners, but you'll still feel some flex. sways+endlinks will take care most of that flex, but it will make the ride slightly harsher over bad roads.


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## nonsequitur (Nov 7, 2015)

high_octaneGTI said:


> The oem front endlinks are a joke


The OEM front end-links do look pretty flimsy, but they should operate in either compression or tension. Tension shouldn't be a problem, but if they were to flex in compression, it does seem like they could fail and fold - making them useless, and eventually break.
If the mounting points were too tight to allow rotation, that could translate (literally) into flex, and I suppose that some amount is unavoidable, but it seems like that bar design (folded sheetmetal) would allow only very little before permanent deformation.

Aside from stiffness, I can certainly see why 034's adjustable end links might be necessary for lowered suspensions (relative to stock), in order to prevent the anti-sway-bar from loading the suspension when level.

But you really felt a handling improvement when you replaced them with 034's? Were the oem links bent? I'm very curious about this, because flexing without failing (for folded sheet metal like these) seems unusual for an end link.

ns


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

I'm lowered all the way down on kW v1's 

I developed a clunking sound after about 5k miles. Thought maybe the endlinks were binding so i ordered the 034 links. Didn't fix my clunking sound but steering definitely felt more firm when cornering. 

Ended up finding where my clunking sound was coming from a week or 2 later. There is a threaded cap that hold the strut in the machined body. That backed out a few threads so the strut was just bouncing around in the body. Tightened it down and clunking went away


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## soliton (Sep 14, 2014)

Did the OP have a satisfying resolution to this quest (that I'm on now)? 

Looking for the learning, primarily from the OP and others if they have good experience with the path they took?



nonsequitur said:


> Now, I'm older, and not as aggressive as I once was, but still appreciate a stable, level cornering capability.
> Problem is, the non-sport suspension isn't as good as I'd like. I'd like it more level in corners, more stable.
> 
> My assumptions:
> ...


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