# Keyless Entry Issues (consolidated discussions) [TOC, Photos Done x2]



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

I just wanted to share the fact that the button that locks my car that is on the exterior door handle (Keyless Entry option - is this confusing to anyone else?  ) has been fixed once again.

I first mentioned this issue in this thread Does my car qualify for a buy-back near the bottom assuming there aren't any more posts in it. In the previous attempt they replace the seat control module and it resolved the issue. but after a while, it was not working again.

The most recent effort, at a different dealer, was to replace the door handle and button. This seems to have worked. Of course I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall as in stop working again. I had already told the service writter that he didn't need to be concerned if he had to call and tell me the new handle didn't fix the problem. I really didn't think it would work. But so far so good.

The new handle had to be painted and I don't thin the paint matches perfectly. However, sicne the handle does not match flush with existing body pannels (basically it meets at near 90 degrees with the door panel) I don't see this as an issue. When I compare front (the one replaced on passenger side) with rear, the paints look slightly different. But there is no way anyone else would notice ... except maybe you all reading here.

Anyway, I'll keep you all posted as it sounds like others have experienced this issue as well.


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## geowben (Jan 26, 2005)

I had to have the passenger door handle replaced also. I'm going to look more closely at the paint right now.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (whealy)*

I have a similar problem with my keyless access system.

On my Phaeton, I can unlock the car by touching any of the four door handles, but I can only lock it by pressing the buttons on the left (driver side) of the car. The front and rear locking buttons on the passenger side of the car don't work.

This is really perplexing me. I tested the function of the buttons themselves, using a diagnostic scan tool. The two buttons on the left side both return a response when pushed. The two buttons on the right side do not return a response. But - it doesn't really make sense to me that the buttons don't work, while at the same time, the capacitance sensors (touch sensors) in the same door handle *do *work. The door handle is, after all, an integrated unit.

I am corresponding with one of our "Phaeton Forum Friends" who works at a large automobile manufacturing facility in Dresden right now - in fact, I just sent an email out last night about this - we are trying to come up with a better (more precise) troubleshooting program that will allow us to determine exactly what the cause (and the appropriate solution) of the problem is. So far, neither the Phaeton technician at my dealer or I have done any disassembly work on my car - we don't want to start taking the car apart until we know exactly what component to go after.

In the meantime, here is some information I have discovered so far that might help with the diagnostic process:

The buttons themselves, and the Measured Value Blocks (MVB) that you use to determine if the button is responding to being pressed are as follows:
*E369* - driver door button, MVB group 1, field 4
*E370* - front passenger button, MVB group 7, field 4
*E371* - left rear button, MVB group 8, field 4
*E372* - right rear button, MVB group 9, field 4

By using a diagnostic scan tool on address 46, the J393 Central Control for Comfort System, and looking at the above measured value blocks, it is possible to determine if the switch inside the push-button is actually functioning - in other words, responding to pressure when you push it. The results of this test on my car indicate that the two passenger side buttons are not responding to pressure. But - does that mean that the buttons are broken, or that the controller in the door is not recognizing that the buttons are being pushed? This is what I have not figured out yet, and what I am awaiting additional information for.

I have attached a wiring diagram for the Access system - this is Phaeton wiring diagram 14. The buttons can be seen on tracks 35, 41, 47, and 54. But - I think there might be an error in this wiring diagram (probably an error that crept in during translation from German to English): If you look at tracks 35 and 54, they show the driver door pushbutton connecting to the driver door controller, and the right rear pushbutton connecting to the right rear controller - this much makes sense. But, tracks 41 and 47 show the front passenger door button connecting to the left rear door controller, and the left rear door connecting to the front passenger door controller. I think this might be a mistake, and I have a question in to VW about it. _(Track numbers are the small numbers from 1 to 70 that appear across the bottom of the wiring diagram, almost like a footer. They allow you to refer to a precise spot on the diagram easily. Track 1 is the left-most vertical column on the first page, and track 70 is the right-most vertical column on the very last page)._

I have attached a copy of the wiring diagram - perhaps this might be useful to anyone who is trying to figure this problem out.

One thing I have learned just from the three posts in this thread - George and I have W12's, and William has a V8, so at least the problem is not specific to one type of J393 comfort controller, because the V8's and the W12's use a different part number for the comfort controller. Let's continue to share information and experience in this thread - perhaps we can come up with a definitive answer and fix. I think this problem is causing VW to scratch their heads, too.

Michael

*Attachment - wiring diagram for Keyless Access System*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (whealy)*

I have received more information about the problem with the pushbuttons on the exterior door handles that are used to lock Phaetons which are equipped with the keyless access option.
The long and the short of it is as follows:

If the pushbutton fails the function test described above (using the diagnostic scan tool, for example, a VAS 5051 or 5052), then the door handle must be replaced. Although the pushbutton and the capacitance sensor (touch sensor, used for *un*locking) are integrated into the same component - the door handle - and are shown as the same component on the wiring diagram, the reality is that they are two different parts within the same assembly. This information has been sent out to the dealer network by VW in Europe. I don't know if it has yet made it through to the North American dealer network, though. Usually, VW writes up a technical bulletin about stuff like this - perhaps the bulletin will appear with the next revision of the electronic service manuals that the dealers are provided with. 

So - based on this information, I will be ordering two new door handles (right front and right rear) for my Phaeton, and my VW dealership will make arrangements to have them painted to match my car before they are installed. The door handles cannot be ordered pre-painted.

I'm not too worried about paint matching concerns, primarily because of what Whealy said in his first post - the door handles fit at a 90° angle to the door itself, so any minor variations in the paint (e.g. reflection, etc.) won't be much different from what normally exists. Because this is not an urgent repair, I'm going to suggest to my VW dealer that they let the body shop take all the time they want to get the painting done. My car has Klavierlack clearcoat on it - there is a downloadable PDF that explains how to apply Klavierlack clearcoat in the field at this post: Black Piano Lacquer (Klavierlack).

It is unfortunate that the whole door handle needs to be replaced - my guess is that must be an awfully expensive part. I was hoping that there would have been a simpler, easier way to fix it. When the job is done, I'll take lots of pictures, and post a write-up of the procedure here.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

For readers who may not be familiar with the part we are discussion, here is a picture of a Phaeton door handle from a car that has keyless access. The push-button is used to lock the car, in the same way that the push-button on the key fob is used to lock the car.

Michael

*Phaeton Door Handle - Keyless Access Locking Pushbutton*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/LockingPushbutton.jpg


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## agnos (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

Hm...my keyless access system has been acting sporadically as of yesterday. I couldn't open the doors/trunk or lock the doors by pressing the handle buttons (I tried all four doors). Today, the system failed to operate in the morning, but has been responsive in the afternoon. At first I thought it was a sensor failure, but then I realized that the keyless start module that I installed is still working fine (i.e. I can start the car by pressing the start button w/o any problems). I'm not sure whether the car has separate receivers to detect the key outside the car and inside the car (i.e. for when the key is placed in the trunk and it will not close), but when I tried the key in the trunk test yesterday, the trunk did close - I had to open it again manually w/ the door switch.
Now, I'm afraid that maybe I did something incorrectly when I was installing the keyless start module that might have loosened a wire or something that operates the keyless entry system (which would explain why the system seems to work intermittently). I'm going to take my car to the dealer this friday on an unrelated matter, but I'm not sure whether I should bring up the matter up yet or research it some more.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (agnos)*

Hi Agnos:
The cause of your problem might be as simple as having a lot of other metallic objects in your pocket, along with your VW key. When you touch a door handle (or press the trunk lid button), the Phaeton sends out a RF signal to 'poll' for the presence of an authorized key. If you have a lot of coins in your pocket - or, if you have your VW key on a keychain with a lot of other metal keys - this can interfere with the reception of the RF signal by the key.
When you are sitting in the car, the key is much closer to the antenna - there are several internal antennas, one is between the shift lever and the ashtrays (under the wood trim), another is just behind the sunroof control dial. For this reason, folks rarely report problems with detection of the key when they are inside the car. 
I keep my VW key in my 'other' pants pocket - by this I mean the pocket I don't keep coins in - and I don't have anything attached to my VW key such as a key fob or any other keys. I have never had any problems with my Phaeton detecting the key.
Michael


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## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (agnos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *agnos* »_Hm...my keyless access system has been acting sporadically as of yesterday. I couldn't open the doors/trunk or lock the doors by pressing the handle buttons (I tried all four doors). Today, the system failed to operate in the morning, but has been responsive in the afternoon. 

agnos,
I don't think you unlock the doors using the buttons we are discussing here. Those buttons are dedicated to "locking" the doors. You unlock the doors by having a key within range of the Kessy antenna and "touching the door handle". And from my own experience, if you don't have the key within range of the antenna (i.e. out in the garage without the key) the locking buttons will not function.
Hope I'm not oversimplifing what you are going though.


_Modified by whealy at 12:23 AM 6-22-2005_


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## agnos (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (whealy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whealy* »_agnos,
I don't think you unlock the doors using the buttons we are discussing here. Those buttons are dedicated to "locking" the doors. You unlock the doors by having a key within range of the Kessy antenna and "touching the door handle". And from my own experience, if you don't have the key within range of the antenna (i.e. out in the garage without the key) the locking buttons will not function.


Oh, no, you misunderstand me. When the system fails to work, I can't open the doors (by placing my hand on the handle) nor lock the doors by pressing the button.
Michael, I'm going to try removing extra keys from the same pocket as the car key...I usually carry a huge key ring on one pocket along w/ the car key (by itself), and a coin pouch on my other pocket. It hasn't been a problem so far, but it has been a year and maybe the key battery has been losing enough charge to affect range, but not enough to trigger the warning in the low battery warning in the console. I had also tried the same thing w/ my spare key, but when the system fails to work, it doesn't respond to either key.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (agnos)*

Hi Agnos:
I rather doubt that battery strength is the cause of the problems you have encountered. I'm just saying this to save you and your Phaeton technician time, so that you don't wind up focusing on the key fob battery when the real cause of the difficulty lies elsewhere.
We have never had a report of a key fob battery wearing out here in the forum, and Phaetons have been on the road for about 20 months now in North America. I had a whole bunch of VW products with batteries in the key fob prior to my Phaeton - usually I had 3 year leases - and I never needed to have a key fob battery replaced.
As was mentioned in another post somewhere, the Phaeton checks the voltage of the battery in the key fob every time the fob is used, and if any decline in battery voltage is noted, this will be reported on the Y24 display screen between the speedometer and the tachometer. If your Phaeton technician wants to observe what the key fob is reporting so far as battery condition is concerned, he or she can open the J518 Access and Start Control Module with a diagnostic scan tool (this is controller address 05), and look at Measured Value Block display group 6.
Display group 6 reports the status of all the keys, in binary format. In other words, the first key shows up in the first of the 4 windows, the second key in the second window, and so forth. You will see an 8 digit binary code listed for each key. The binary bit on the extreme left (in other words, the first binary bit, if you read the group from left to right) is the status of the battery in that particular key fob.
If I was troubleshooting your problem, based on what you have said here, this is how I would go about it:
*1)* I'd hold all three key fobs about 6 inches from an exterior door handle, and then attempt to lock/unlock the car by pressing the lock button and then touching the inside part of the exterior door handle. Rationale: If the car responds successfully, then this rules out any problems with function or power supply to the whole keyless access system in the vehicle.
*2) *If step 1 is successful, then I would put two of the key fobs well out of range of the car (at least 25 feet away), then walk around the car, trying to lock and unlock each door - and the trunk - while holding each key fob fairly close to the door handle, or in the case of the trunk, fairly close to the rear licence plate. I would then repeat this test with each of the other two key fobs. Rationale: This would allow me to determine if the problem is specific to one area of the car (e.g. left rear door), or specific to one key fob.
*3)* If everything works fine during the tests in step 2, then I would scan the car for fault codes using a diagnostic scan tool. In particular, I would be looking for any 'intermittent' fault codes related to the keyless access system, for example, antennas not connected, etc.
*4)* If nothing turned up in step 3, then I think the problem likely relates to how and where you have been carrying the key, which was discussed earlier in this thread. In other words, perhaps other objects in your pocket (other keys, keychains, coins, security access cards, other transponders such as gas station speed passes, etc.) may be preventing the Phaeton key from receiving and replying to the RF signal that is sent out by the Phaeton itself whenever you touch the car and ask it to unlock.
Let us know how the troubleshooting process goes.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

Well - the two new exterior door handles for the passenger side of my Phaeton arrived at my dealership, and my dealer sent them out to the body shop to be painted. When exterior door handles are replaced, they always need to be painted first, because the part comes primed, not with the finish paint on it.

The body shop that my VW dealer sublets paint work to - Oaktown Collision in Richmond Hill, Ontario - did a great job of painting the door handles. That was the easy part of the job. Replacing them was more complex than I thought it would be. My VW dealer allowed me to take some pictures of the process, hopefully this will be helpful to anyone else who has to have a door handle replaced, or needs to remove the inside trim panel from the door for any reason.

Getting the trim panel off the inside of the door is not an easy job. It requires quite a bit of patience, use of the exact VW special tool for removing door panels, and following the instructions in the repair manual to the letter. It is one of those jobs that takes 2 hours to do the first time, and then 10 minutes to do the second and subsequent times. The photos below are not a complete description of every step in the process (refer to the repair manual for that), rather, they highlight some of the more complex steps in the process, and identify some of the unexpected surprises and minor problems that will arise during the removal process.

*Removing Interior Trim*
Some of the interior trim pieces need to be removed to gain access to bolts.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement1.jpg

*A special VW tool is then used to loosen the fasteners that hold the interior panel on the door.*
The interior door panel has been removed already in this photo. But, if you have never done the job before, it sure helps to know what it is you are fishing for when you use this special tool.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement2.jpg

*The part number of the special tool.*
DON'T attempt to take the door panel off unless you have this special tool, otherwise, you will break stuff inside.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement3.jpg

*The fastener that holds the interior panel snugly against the metal door.*
The fastener is in the closed position in this photo. The trick is to fit the special tool into the location shown, and pop the fastener open.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement4.jpg

*What the fastener looks like after you have successfully popped it open using the special tool.*
The challenge is that you are working 'blind', you can't see the fastener until you have removed the whole door panel. Note the difference between the fastener in the closed/locked position (photo above), and the fastener in the open position (photo below).








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement5.jpg

*Things that can go wrong.*
_It's pretty easy to see that I started to remove the door panel at the upper rear corner - and finally became proficient at removing the fasteners as I worked around to the upper front. Note the following problems that I encountered:_
*1)* Fastener pops out of inside trim panel and stays attached to door.
*2)* Fastener and fastener mount break off inside trim panel and stay attached to door.
*3)* This shows what it looks like when it is done correctly - the fastener opens up, and releases completely from the door. It stays attached to the interior panel, as shown in the photo above.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement6.jpg

*How the fastener fits into the door panel.*
Normally, it will not come out of the door panel during the door panel removal process. This photo just illustrates how the components are designed.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement7.jpg

*If you break the fastener attachment off the interior door panel...*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement9.jpg

*...You can glue it back on with cyanoacrylate glue.*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement10.jpg

*Finally, the door panel is successfully removed.*
Note the position of the 7 fasteners - it helps to know where they are when you are trying to pop them open.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement11.jpg

*The bolts holding the door latch assembly are removed, the bolts holding the metal panel are removed, and the metal panel is held in place with a bungee cord.*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement12.jpg

*The door handle can then be removed.*
The repair manual suggests that this can be done without all the dis-assembly shown above. This would be true, if the little clip (arrow) was not present. It was impossible to get this clip off without removing the interior door panel.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement13.jpg

*What the clips look like, when viewed from the inside of the door.* 
You are looking at the forward part of the door handle, where the wire emerges from the door handle assembly. You just can't get these clips off - or the new ones on - without taking the whole interior of the door apart.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement15.jpg

*A larger perspective of the two clips shown above.*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement16.jpg

*Where the vent hole is.*
Now that you know where the vent hole is for the locking pushbutton, try to avoid spraying high pressure water in this area when you wash your Phaeton.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement14.jpg


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## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

As usualy, cool pics Michael. Yes, door trim fastners are notorious for breaking on removal. Glad to see VW at least has a tool to deal with this somewhat unusual fastners.
On the plus side, my issue has been resolved sicne I opened this post.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (whealy)*

I'm actually quite impressed with the clever design of the fasteners. It appears to be a very well engineered approach to holding the door panel in place, and best of all, if you push on the door panel, the fastener will tighten up automatically.
I only wish that the VW repair documentation gave a better idea of what to expect when taking the door apart. As things stand now, it's almost inevitable that the first door panel someone takes off will suffer a few injuries during the learning process. I'm thankful that the broken parts can be repaired so easily.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
My front passenger door handle was replaced last month after the lock button failed. 
Recently, I'ved begun to hear noises apparently coming from inside the door when the car hits a sharp bump on the right side. 
Can you think of anything that could have come loose inside the door if the tech made a mistake during disassembly or assembly? Those two clips perhaps?


_Modified by Paldi at 3:47 PM 11-20-2006_


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*

I'm having the same (or similar) noise problem in the right front door. It is often quite loud. The door (as far as I know) has not been disassembled since I've owned the car but may have been prior to my purchase.
The noise seems to be related to cold weather. When its warm out, I don't hear it. The colder it is, the smaller the bump required to produce it. It is surprising loud.
It is hard to tell exactly where it's coming from but it seems to come from the speaker area in the door. Can that small cover over the speakers be removed separately from the rest of the door panel? If removing that is simple, I would try it myself. I won't try removing the main door problem, I'll leave that job to VW.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_
Recently, I've begun to hear noises apparently coming from inside the door when the car hits a sharp bump on the right side. I'm going to inflate the tires with 40 pounds (from 34) to see if it gets worse. 

Have you figured this out yet? I still have a similar problem and it's getting worse. Can anyone tell me if and how I can take the little speaker cover off the right front door w/o disassembling the whole door?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_ Can anyone tell me if and how I can take the little speaker cover off the right front door w/o disassembling the whole door?

Hi Steven:

Unfortunately, you can't take the speaker cover off by itself. There is no alternative to removing the entire door panel, as shown in the pictures above.

If you have a rattle in the door, and if the door panel was removed once in the past (for example, to fix a keyless access problem, or to replace a speaker), then it is probable that the rattle is a result of a loose fastener in the door panel retention system that has fallen down to the bottom of the door.

The door assemblies are probably the most complex assemblies on the whole car. If you (or a tech) are taking them apart, you have to be really meticulous to take lots of photos to document the process so you can refer to them when you re-assemble the door. You also need to have the exact correct door panel removal tool, and know how to use it. Even then, it is almost inevitable that you will break a few of the fasteners, which means you have to have a bit of glue ready to re-assemble them.

I'm really not sure what suggestion to give you. When I brought my Phaeton into my VW dealer to get the door handles replaced, the Phaeton tech and I divided the work up - he did the disassembly, door handle replacement, and re-assembly, while I took all the photos (so we could refer back to them come re-assembly time) and I did the preparation work and gluing of the odd part that broke as the door panels came off. That way, when the technician was ready to put the door panel back on, I could give him a door panel that was fully inspected and prepared exactly as it was when it was first installed in Dresden.

Michael


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

Mine is in the shop once again, the keyless entry being on eof the issues. It works for about a week when it gets fixed, then no longer. It has done that since I bought the car new. None of the explanations posted here do not make sense as to why this keeps occurring. I only use one of the keys to the car, and I never switch keys, and I don't carry alot of keys or change.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dzier)*

David, what exactly is your problem - is it that the car does not unlock when you touch the door handle, or that it does not lock when you press the little button on the door handle?
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_
Have you figured this out yet? I still have a similar problem and it's getting worse. 

Well, no. My car needs to get back to service for a look. The sound I am hearing can be described as a "CLACK" whenever the car goes over a recessed manhole cover or similar sharp bump on the right side. Sometimes it "CLACKS" twice - once for the right front tire and again for the rear. It sounds to me that it's coming from high up in the door, perhaps from the door handle area or its attached cable. It does *not* sound like something loose that was dropped into the depths of the door cavity.
The sound got worse when I raised the tire pressure to 39 front/37 rear and when the shocks are in sport setting #2..







.


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## geowben (Jan 26, 2005)

My keyless entry has hardly ever worked on the passenger side or trunk lid. Only from the right side. They replaced the handle and painted it once. Within days it quit working again. It only works on the door if I have the key in my hand. The key fob unlock never works on the passenger side. The trunk only unlocks if I push on the VW logo with the keys in my hand. Sometimes it works if I approach from the driver side. It's been this way since June. I need to get it repaired again my next visit. 
I'm also missing a small "panel" on the bottom of the passenger mirror and my retractable steering wheel works occasionally. When it does, it makes the noise Michael wrote about some time ago. My passenger window binds sometimes. They looked at it once and said it was ok but this summer I had to spray some silicone on the window to keep it from chattering. Minor annoyances. I hope to get them repaired soon. Just hope I don't have to go through the regular routine of having to convince VW that they really should be repaired under warranty. The first time they repaired the door handle the service writer tried to resist the claim saying they must have caused the problem when they tinted the windows. I assured them it was the same window tinter the dealership uses and that obviously, the door was not disassembled. Finally, they agreed. 
Anyway, are we sure they door handle assemby being replaced (and repainted) is really the problem with this?
/


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## geowben (Jan 26, 2005)

The second sentence should read "driver side" not "right side".


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (geowben)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geowben* »_Anyway, are we sure they door handle assembly being replaced (and repainted) is really the problem with this?

Hi George:

The problem that requires door handle replacement is very specific: If water gets in behind the little button that is used to LOCK (not unlock) the doors, then the water will corrode the contacts of the switch, and there will be one of two outcomes - either the button will not work anymore, or, the contacts short out and the Kessy module does not go to sleep as it should.

In my case, I guess the contacts corroded away, because I was unable to lock the car by pressing on either of the buttons on the passenger side. After much troubleshooting (mostly using a diagnostic scan tool to determine if the car was receiving a signal when the button was pushed - it wasn't), the Phaeton tech at my VW dealer decided to replace the door handles. This solved the problem.

It seems that water can be forced into the vent for the button by some touchless car washes that use very high pressure water.

Respecting your difficulties - that the car does not UNLOCK easily - my suggestion is that you use a diagnostic scan tool to examine several things:

*1) *Strength of the battery in the key - bit 7 of what you see in the Group 006 measured value blocks for the Access and Start Control Module (controller 05). The four blocks in group 006 correspond to keys 1, 2, 3, and 4. Also, determine if you can lock / unlock the car from a distance with the buttons on the key fob. This will help you rule out the key fob as a culprit, when you are trying to pin down the source of the problem.
*2)* Whether or not the door handle touch sensor is consistently recognizing when you touch the door handle. This is shown in MVB Group 004, with blocks 1 and 2 being the driver and front passenger door, and groups 3 and 4 being the left and right rear doors, respectively.
*3)* Cycle Protection (Play Protection) Status for the door handle capacitance sensors - this is shown in MVB Group 009, the four blocks correspond with the same doors as Group 004.

As for the trunk lid problem, perhaps have a look at the connections for the two antennas that are located behind the rear bumper. I've posted a picture showing the antennas below. It is possible that if the connections are not nice and tight and clean, the antenna might not be reporting the presence of the key. Some of the Touareg people have had problems with the rear antennas on the Touaregs after having driven their vehicles through water, or backed the truck into a lake to load or unload a boat. I doubt that is the cause of your problem, but perhaps a spray nozzle from a car wash might have the same effect.

Another thought - this is kind of a long shot - is that the wiring bundle may have been squashed or damaged where it enters the spare tire well, if you have ever removed and replaced the spare tire, or if you keep other stuff in the spare tire well. As you can see in the photo below, the wires from these two antennas enter the spare tire well at the back, and if you lift up the floor inside the trunk, you can see the cable bundle running along the aft edge of the well, towards the left side of the car.

Michael

*Location of Kessy Antennas on the back of the Phaeton*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/KeylessAccessAntennasRear.jpg


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (geowben)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geowben* »_My key less entry has hardly ever worked on the passenger side or trunk lid. Only on the driver's side. It only works if I have the key in my hand. 
The key fob unlock never works on the passenger side. 
The trunk only unlocks if I push on the VW logo with the keys in my hand. Sometimes it works if I approach from the driver side. 
/

My key less entry used to only unlock the driver's side doors. Everyone thought that was strange. Eventually my dealer fixed it by recoding something. 
All the doors lock when I press a lock button on any of the exterior door handle lock buttons. I try not to touch the rest of the door handle when I press the lock button, so I don't confuse it. As you know, if you grasp the door handle it will (or should) unlock all four doors. If you grasp the door handle and push the lock button on the door handle at the same time you *might* be confusing it somehow. Just a hypothesis.
I always have the key in hand when opening the trunk. I press the trunk-unlock button on the key fob and then press the VW logo on the trunk to open it. Isn't that how you are supposed to do it?
So, you are saying your key fob isn't transmitting its signal strongly enough unless it's in your hand?


_Modified by Paldi at 11:59 AM 3-2-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_My key less entry used to only unlock the driver's side doors. Everyone thought that was strange. Eventually my dealer fixed it by recoding something. 

Whoa there - let's not confuse apples and oranges...








I thin that the problem George is describing is this: He is having difficulty getting the car to recognize him if he tries to unlock it *from *the passenger side.
What you referred to in the text I quoted above is an entirely different thing, that is the matter of what doors will unlock once the car recognizes you when you touch it. You have three possible choices that can be set by adaptation of the central comfort controller - driver door only will unlock, both doors on the driver side will unlock, or all four doors will unlock. However, this presumes that the car has no problems recognizing you when you touch any of the door handles.
There is more information about how to set the coding to control the number of doors that unlock at this thread: Understanding Programming Options affecting door locking and unlocking. But, what we are talking about here (I think) is a problem with the car recognizing your desire to lock or unlock it in the first place - in other words, the door handles - either the push button used for locking, or the capacitance sensor used for unlocking - are not responding to touch.
George, let me know if I have misunderstood you or not.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_I always have the key in hand when opening the trunk. I press the trunk-unlock button on the key fob and then press the VW logo on the trunk to open it. Isn't that how you are supposed to do it?

On my car, which has a motorized trunk lid (it goes up and down by itself, using a little hydraulic mechanism to open and close the lid), all I have to do is press the VW logo on the trunk of the car - with the key in my pocket - and it opens.
I believe (99%) that the cars that do not have the hydraulic powered lid do not have a push-button (microswitch) embedded in the VW logo either. On those cars, I think the only way you can open the trunk lid from the rear of the car is either by pressing the button on the key fob, or sticking the key blade into the lock and turning the key blade.
Michael


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_
I always have the key in hand when opening the trunk. I press the trunk-unlock button on the key fob and then press the VW logo on the trunk to open it. Isn't that how you are supposed to do it?

I have the tech package as well and I can open the trunk by using EITHER, but not needing both, of the actions you use. I.E., I can open it by pressing the logo on the trunk, with the key in my pocket. Or, by pressing and holding down the button on the fob for a couple of seconds. I've never had to do both to get it to open..


_Modified by car_guy at 7:02 AM 11-27-2005_


----------



## geowben (Jan 26, 2005)

Michael, you understood it perfectly. I will try to look at some of the fixes and talk to the service tech when I take it in. 
If the water problem is what is causing it, won't it always be a problem? I'd hate to think I would have to get it repaired over and over. Is there another fix?
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I am not one who goes crazy if a few things aren't working. The car continues to impress me. I recently went looking at some others and nothing seems to measure up. I am glad I purchased the extended warranty when I bought the car though.


----------



## geowben (Jan 26, 2005)

PS I don't think it is the key battery. Recently I got a low battery warning and replaced it.


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Your welcome. And I'm Steven.
It's very comforting to find someone else that is perhaps as name-challenged as I am!


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

both, does not unlock when touching handle, or lock with button.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (geowben)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geowben* »_If the water problem is what is causing it, won't it always be a problem? 

No, not at all. There is a very easy fix for problems caused by water that infiltrates into electrical connectors - one just puts a bit of dielectric grease on the connector before assembling it. That is common practice with motorcycles and aircraft. I think that VW even provides dielectric grease to the dealerships as a VW part.

_Quote, originally posted by *geowben* »_I am not one who goes crazy if a few things aren't working. The car continues to impress me. I recently went looking at some others and nothing seems to measure up.

I agree with you on both points, although I don't mind it if I have the occasional minor functional problem with the car - I enjoy the troubleshooting process, and the service department at my VW dealership is a very social place, it's almost as if having a small problem gives me an excellent excuse to turn off the cell phone and then go spend the day in the service department of the dealership trying to track down the problem and fix it. That's far more relaxing and enjoyable than most other things I can do when I am here in Canada...









_Quote, originally posted by *geowben* »_PS I don't think it is the key battery. Recently I got a low battery warning and replaced it.

Exactly. As Phaeton owners, we can rule out weak key batteries right off the bat whenever we are troubleshooting a door unlocking problem. The Phaeton will measure the voltage level of the battery in the key fob every single time the key fob is used to unlock the car (either by pressing a button on it, or by searching for it when someone touches a door handle). If the key fob voltage is low, the Phaeton will then display a message to the effect of "Replace Key Fob Battery" on the screen between the speedometer and tachometer.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, do you happn to have a couple of photos of the interior of the right side front door? I still have my rattle from the door handle install in October. The door buzzes when Willie Nelson performs a song with a lot of bass. It also "clacks" over bumps taken on the right side tires. I hope a couple of photos will help me narrow it down to find the possible broken fastener.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Just a follow-up to the original topic (door handle locking pushbuttons that stop working): I discovered this week that the left rear door handle locking button on my Phaeton is no longer working.
This is not a big inconvenience to me (the driver door button still works), so, I have decided to postpone getting this fixed until the late spring, when the weather is nicer and the staff at the body shop that my VW dealer uses are not so busy with 'winter accidents'.
The replacement door handle needs to be painted (the part comes in from the VW parts warehouse with primer paint on it). I think what I will do is drop my Phaeton off at the body shop for a few days while they are painting the new door handle, and ask that they touch up any small rock chips, etc on my car at the same time they have prepared the basic black paint for the new door handle and, later, the Klavierlack clearcoat for the new door handle.
The new door handle is painted as a stand-alone part, and has nothing to do with the car itself. My thinking, though, is that if the body shop also has possession of my entire car at the same time that they are painting this door handle, the cost to me of having them touch up any tiny little rock chips will be lower than it would be if I took the car in for that purpose alone, and they had to mix up a fresh batch of black paint and a fresh batch of Klavierlack clearcoat.
Just a thought for others who may need to have door handles replaced in the future.
Michael


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (whealy)*

My Phaeton is in the shop and is having the two right side door handles replaced as the lock/unlock buttons are not working.
Here's the kicker: After having the car in the morning and examining the problem, the service writer has told me that they are going to replace the handles (after having them painted), but they don't have to disassemble the inside of the door to do it. I got this info by email so I wasn't able to ask them how they were going to do that. But I will, and I will post the response as soon as I get it.
BTW, I sent him a link to this thread before I brought the care in and he said he was going to print it out and show it to the technician.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (car_guy)*

It's possible that there may have been a change in how the car door is assembled, to make it possible to replace the handle without taking the door apart. The service manual suggests that this is possible, however, the presence of the little 'anti-rattle' clip on the door handle cable frustrated the dis-assembly plan documented in the service manual.
Michael


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I posted a few weeks ago that the five inch display was asking me to "shift into park" even while I was driving. My tech informed me that he needed to replace the RR passenger door handle as it was sending a signal to the five inch display that the RR passenger door was not fully closed. The door ajar icon never lighted as all doors were securely closed. All the keyless functions worked just fine but the message was still being intermittently generated. The handle should arrive at the dealer for painting this week. Anyone have an idea what went wrong?
RB


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (Rowayton)*

Hi Ronald:
That is something I have not heard of before. I suppose it is possible that the locking button on the door handle failed closed (in other words, failed in such a way that it is always indicating that a locking request is being sent), and this might somehow relate back to the request to put the car in park. That is, however, 100% a guess, a shot in the dark, on my part. It would certainly be easy enough to confirm this - just look at measured value block group 009, block 4 of the central comfort and convenience controller. This will report the status of the pushbutton locking switch on the right rear exterior door handle. There are three possible states: activated, not activated, or not installed. The first two apply to cars with keyless access, the last to cars without keyless access.
The door controllers (there is one for each door) are slaves to controller 46, the central comfort and convenience controller. Locking and unlocking is handled by controller 05, the access and start controller.
The only time I have ever seen the 'please shift into Park' message has been when I have tried to turn the engine off and the transmission was in a position other than park, or, tried to turn the ignition off and the transmission was not in park. The explanation your technician gave you is plausible, but I have not encountered or heard of that problem before.
Michael


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
When the repair is completed I will forward the diagnosis and explanation of the cause/error to the forum.
RB


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_My Phaeton is in the shop and is having the two right side door handles replaced as the lock/unlock buttons are not working.
Here's the kicker: After having the car in the morning and examining the problem, the service writer has told me that they are going to replace the handles (after having them painted), but they don't have to disassemble the inside of the door to do it. I got this info by email so I wasn't able to ask them how they were going to do that. But I will, and I will post the response as soon as I get it.
BTW, I sent him a link to this thread before I brought the care in and he said he was going to print it out and show it to the technician.

Well, they fixed the two right side door locking handles, and guess what? They did have to disassemble the doors just as Michael's explanation pointed out. No surprise there!
It did have the side benefit that they were able to locate the noise in the right front door as some wires weren't secured properly.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*car wash and keyless entry*

I recently had 2 door handles replaced, yet again. Diane from phaeton customer care told me about a TB about car washed and the keyless door handles (no seal). Now, I no longer run through car washed, but the dealers still do it, and that is why I had 2 recently replaced again. I am assuming the parts will never be sealed, or are the replacements sealed? Anyone know? PanAmerican?


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: car wash and keyless entry (dzier)*

I think the new ones are sealed. Have all four of them been replaced now? I had one done so am anticipating the others will go this Summer, one by one. :-(


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: car wash and keyless entry (Paldi)*

If they are sealed, then someting else is wrong. Mine have been replaced more than once!! 
The technicians could not answer the question and they thought they were just replacing with the exact same part - unsealed.


----------



## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: car wash and keyless entry (dzier)*

Are you using a driving thru car wash? or are you using the self-spray service station? What is the problem with door handle. Does it stop working? What's the TB?


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: car wash and keyless entry (rrussell)*

I wonder too - I go through a car wash at least once a week, and no problems so far.
Stefano


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: car wash and keyless entry (rrussell)*

It's the keyless entry ... the button on the door is not sealed. ANyone know the technical bulletin?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: car wash and keyless entry (dzier)*

David:
I am not aware of any TB on the subject, however, I'm not on VW's TB mailing list.
I had two door handles (both on the passenger side) replaced last summer - have not had any problems with them since, nor have I had any problems with the original door handles on the driver side of the vehicle.
I had a look at the new door handles when they were installed, and they appear to be a different part number suffix than the original ones. This implies a production change.
Michael


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*car wash and keyless access*

I have never seen the TB about this issue, but only heard about it. Are the new door handles sealed or does this problem persist and we can't use car washed. I have had new handles several rounds before Diane at PCC told me this. My dealer has NEVER told me about this issue.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: car wash and keyless access (dzier)*

Hi David:
There's no TB about this, because only a limited number of early production 2004 cars are vulnerable to water infiltration of the push-button on the door handles. If the door handle push button fails due to water infiltration, you just replace the door handle in accordance with the instructions provided in the repair manual - that's all there is to it.
I have had two door handles replaced on my car. Since then, I avoid the automatic car washes *that use exceptionally high pressure, narrow pattern* sprays - this means about 15% of the tunnel car washes out there. I don't want to have to go to the trouble of getting the other two handles replaced.
The whole issue, including how to replace the door handles, is well documented here: Keyless Access button fixed ... again.
Michael


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: car wash and keyless access (PanEuropean)*

All of mine have been replaced, the passengr side twice. I assume this means I have door handles that are properly sealed on all 4 doors. (When the kessy system would not work on my car they raplaced EVERYTHING - at least once, sometimes twice.)


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Help! Key less access stopped working.*

Out of the blue without warning.... The doors won't unlock when I touch a door handle and they won't lock when I push any of the black square lock buttons on the exterior door handles. Fortunately, the remote unlocking does work using the key fob. Both fobs tried, each have recent new batteries in last 6 months. Time for another trip to service? Or is there anything I can do to reset the thing??? Thanks


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*

. . . possibly an allergic reaction to too many non-OEM parts and mods??


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (pirateat50)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pirateat50* »_. . . possibly an allergic reaction to too many non-OEM parts and mods??









Ouch!








Fred, any history of low key battery? I know too simple.
Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*

Hi Fred:
I'm going to guess that it was just 'one of those things' - perhaps due to the full moon that we had recently - and it will go away by itself in the next day or two.
I thin it's too big and too all-encompassing a failure to be a single component, unless the access and start control module packed it in. But, those modules have historically been very, very reliable - which is why I discount that possibility.
I suggest you take no action at all for at least three more driving days.
Michael


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (PanEuropean)*

This sounds familiarto me.... it sounds like your caris doing things mine has. My keyless has been flawless now since February last year.... but the two years before it rarely worked.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (dzier)*

It could also be something as simple as the system getting too many signals (requests) for unlocking within a short period of time, perhaps because a wet leaf fell on one of the exterior door handles. There is a subroutine in the keyless access system that shuts it off if it gets an excessive number of unsuccessful requests. This is why I am suggesting that Fred just leave it alone for a few days and see what happens.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (PanEuropean)*

My suspicion was cast on the two locking clips that hold the wiring harness to the door handle. I think mine are hanging loose and the wiring may have become frayed. (The handle was replaced and the door has rattled ever since.)
In any event, the bug cleared itself this evening after driving around with it dead all day and all is well. What a relief. Good advice Michale! Danke.








I wonder if anyone else is experiencing these sporadic electrical issues? Also, would this one have resulted in a code being stored that the dealer will see at the next service appointment - which is next week?


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_
Fred, any history of low key battery? I know too simple.
Regards,
Brent

Yes, the batteries were replaced within the last six months. At the 30k service. They charged me for two batteries - one for each key fob.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_...would this one have resulted in a code being stored that the dealer will see at the next service appointment - which is next week?

If the problem was caused by the keyless access system 'timing out' due to something touching the door handle too frequently within a given period of time, the car won't store a fault code _per se_, but if the tech really, really wants to go digging, there are addresses in the controller that will show when timeouts have taken place.
In your case, though, I'd kind of toss this little hiccup into the 'forget about it' category, unless it starts to be a recurrent thing.
Michael


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## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*

As long as the Phaeton isn't allergic to you!!!


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_ My girl friend is allergic to her new dog. Maybe my Phaeton is too?









It's gotta be the dog!








Seriously, I am glad the problem has cleared itself up.


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*

Paldi,
Had the same issue last month with my Phaeton. After looking at all the easy causes that might have rendered the system inoperative in my car it bottom lined with the replacement of a defective immobilizer module. All is well now. VW got the part very quickly but the repair (installation) required considerable work. Good luck.
RB


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Rowayton)*

Where is the module located?


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*

Paldi,
I didn't watch the work being done but I believe the module is under the left side dash and carpeted foot well area. I refer to Michael on its exact location. I believe a lot of the interior needs to be moved out of the way to access it. Sounds like something you may not want to do yourself. This module was an upgraded module from the one my early production V-8 came with. It was covered by warranty.
RB


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Rowayton)*

OK, left side meaning the driver's side? My occasional water leak is into the passenger side floor area, so that rules out my theory. Thanks. I wonder if the immobilizer controls the parking lock in the transmission? Mine gave me a "clunk" while I was backing out of a parking place around the same time I discovered the keyless access problem. So far, after 4 days, neither problem has returned, despite the rain.


_Modified by Paldi at 11:33 AM 1-8-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Where is the module located?

It's the same part that you run the wires to when you install a start button. More or less, it is directly under your left foot when you are sitting in the driver seat of a LHD spec Phaeton. If you have a look at the "retrofitting a start button" thread (TOC), you'll see lots of pictures of it as well as complete instructions explaining how to get at it.
I kind of doubt, though, that this part is the cause of your problems. It is a really bullet-proof, fail passive, triple redundant part. It has to be, otherwise the car would be stranded (would not start) if the part failed. I do appreciate that another forum member reported that he had this part replaced on his car, but I am not entirely certain about whether or not it needed to be replaced.
Michael


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I stand corrected on the use of the word "Immobilizer" for the repair of my keyless failure. The tech removed and replaced the immobilizer control module and adapted my three keys to the new unit. The tech found a registered fault for an open circuit in the keyless antenna circuit. He checked all the wiring and found all to be OK. After clearing the faults the faults returned. It is then that he removed and replaced the immobilizer control module (part # 3DO-909-137-AX-02W). Sorry about the confusion.
Ron


_Modified by Rowayton at 6:23 AM 1-9-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Rowayton)*

Hi Ronald:
Thanks for that clarification. You might want to take a peek at this post: Door Handles - How to troubleshoot and replace exterior handles. This problem only affects the LOCKING button (not the unlocking circuit), but it might be good for you to be aware of the issue, just in case the problem comes back. Might save a lot of diagnostic time.
The super-fast, silver bullet way to diagnose locking problems is to look at the measured value block for the locking pushbuttons (there is a unique MVB for each door), and see if it is stuck in the 'activated' position when the button is not pressed. If it passes that test, then press the button and observe that its status changes on the diagnostic scan tool readout.
If you know the history of the problem, diagnosing it is fast and simple, but if you are not aware of the history, it can be a real confusing task to pin it down. There have been quite a few 'fishing trips' where techs have replaced everything but the kitchen sink, only to find out at the end that it was water infiltration into one of the door handles that caused the problem.
Michael


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
The old control module failed two months after the RR passenger door handle was replaced. The door handle replacement worked until the modual packed it in. My '04 is an early production car and the original module (the older design) did not require me to put my foot on the brake to start the car (I do not have keyless start) like the replacement one does. Your post will certainly help forum members that might experience a similar failure during their ownership. Thanks for the information and reply.
RB


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Rowayton)*

Ahhhh, OK, now I fully understand. You had an early production Access and Start Control Module (controller 07, the Kessy module) that had software 6400 in it, now you have a later production one that has software 6700 in it. There are some very small benefits associated with having the 6700 controller, but they are not significant enough to warrant replacing the 6400 controller unless the original controller fails. I still have the 6400 controller in my Phaeton and I am happy with it.
Also - just for the benefit of everyone: If you ever need to get any component that is even peripherally involved in the anti theft (immobilizer) function of the car - this would include the access and start control module (controller 07), the instrument cluster (controller 17), or the engine controller (controller 01 - and note that there are two of them on the V10 and the W12), be sure to bring every key to your car with you when you bring the car to the workshop!
Volkswagen really did their homework well when they designed the anti-theft system. Whenever a new key is adapted to the car, or whenever a controller related to the anti-theft system is replaced, all the keys need to be 're-introduced' (re-qualified, if you like) to the vehicle. Any keys that are not present will be disqualified. This prevents anyone from authorizing a new key for your car without your knowledge. However... the staff at the dealerships sometimes forget to remind folks to bring every single key in with them for 're-qualification' when one of these controllers (01, 07, 17) needs to be replaced.
Michael


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## V10NRB (Nov 30, 2006)

*Phaeton V10 (UK) - Keyless entry/exit problems*

Hi,
This might have been posted before but I cannot find it.
Last Wednesday my Keyless Entry/Exit became intermitent. Holding key next to handle and nothing, no click, nothing. So have have been using key for last few days.
Today, this evening Keyless entry works ok, with key in my pocket.
The Keyless start has worked all along.
Does anyone know why my keyless entry stopped working, was intermittently working, now working.
Will it stop again, lets wait and see.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
cheers
Neil


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (UK) - Keyless entry/exit problems (V10NRB)*

I'm not entirely sure what has caused your difficulty. Perhaps check to make sure that you have not inadvertently left another Phaeton key inside the car. Phaetons with keyless access will not lock if there is a valid key inside the cabin or inside the trunk - this is to prevent you from locking yourself out of the car.
Michael


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (UK) - Keyless entry/exit problems (V10NRB)*

I had strange happening a couple of weeks ago. I was helping my son to move house and was loading the trunk/boot and I dropped the gear in and in so doing my key was dropped with the gear and then slammed the trunk shut (manual close). As it dawned on me I had just closed the trunk and the key now in the closed trunk thinking its not supposed to shut with the key inside the car. Now feeling like a complete buffoon tried to open the trunk no deal. Walked away thinking what now, a cup of tea later walked out to to the car and pressed the VW logo and it opened. My secondary thought was why would it not open when I tried the first couple of times, it surely was not the tea interval???


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (pilgrim7777)*

Hi Terence:
Alternatively, you could have opened the driver door and lifted the button on the driver door to pop the trunk lid.
If the Phaeton has keyless access, you cannot *lock it up* if there is a key in either the cabin or the boot. But, that does not prevent you from closing the boot lid, as you discovered.
As for the tea break - my guess was that after 1 minute 55 seconds, the car went to sleep, as it normally does, and when you came back to the car and pressed the button anew, it detected the key inside the trunk and thus opened the trunk. It is possible that it did not detect the key when you pressed it right away after closing the lid... maybe it 'looked harder' after waking up.
Michael


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (PanEuropean)*

Michael
You are right about the button on the drivers door but at the time it just did not occur to me. doh! It only dawned on me later.


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
If the Phaeton has keyless access, you cannot *lock it up* if there is a key in either the cabin or the boot. But, that does not prevent you from closing the boot lid, as you discovered.

On a trip we took, after locking the car and opening the trunk, my wife threw her pocketbook with her keys in it in the trunk. We tried to close it and the trunk lid would close _and then reopen on its own_. At first I was mystified and thought there was some fault, and "what am I going to do now with the trunk stuck open?". We figured it out, removed the key, and everything functioned as usual.
I just went into the garage and tested this, and it works exactly as described above. Perhaps another hidden feature?


----------



## V10NRB (Nov 30, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (car_guy)*

Hi,
I have only two keys and both are out of the car.
Today - The doors are working BUT he boot is still not working, I press the VW badge and notthing opens.
So the problems is changing, not gone away, but looking better...
cheers
Neil


----------



## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (V10NRB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V10NRB* »_Hi,
I have only two keys and both are out of the car.
Today - The doors are working BUT he boot is still not working, I press the VW badge and notthing opens.
So the problems is changing, not gone away, but looking better...
cheers
Neil

Don't rule out the obvious 'Radio Interference' possibility, are you testing in the same location? does the problem change depending on where you are?
If not, the we can rule out external factors... 
rgds
Johan


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (V10NRB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *V10NRB* »_Today - The doors are working BUT he boot is still not working, I press the VW badge and nothing opens.

Hi Neil:

OK, here's my best attempt at "troubleshooting by long distance using an Ouija board" - a reckless task at the best of times:

*1)* Replace the key battery. This is really cheap and simple to do (battery costs ₤2.50 if you buy it at a big electronics superstore or a toy store, you can replace it yourself without difficulty). In theory, the Phaeton should give you a message in the instrument cluster display if the key battery is low, but because it is so simple and inexpensive to replace the battery, just do that first, to rule out one variable.

*2)* Try locking or unlocking the car doors with the remote (the one with the fresh battery) from each of 8 different compass points all around the car, whilst standing about 3 yards away. In other words, from the N, S, E, W quadrants, as well as NE, NW, SE, SW. This is a quick and simple way to test out both the external antennas and the portion of the KESSY (*K*eyless *E*ntry and *S*tart *Sy*stem) controller (controller 05, also called the Access and Start Controller).

*3)* Critically evaluate the state of charge of the vehicle power supply battery (the left hand battery). As we all know, the first hint we get that the left hand battery is at less than optimal charge status is flaky behaviour of other systems in the car, keyless access included.

*4)* Do a diagnostic scan of the car to reveal what fault codes are present. Of special interest to you are any fault codes related to the Access and Start Controller (05), the Immobilizer (25), and any fault related to doors or handles.
'
If I had to place a bet - my money would be on a slightly discharged vehicle power supply battery (left battery).

Let us know what you find.

Michael

*How to open the key to change the battery*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/KeyBatteryAccess.jpg

*The battery itself*
_The OEM battery is a Panasonic CR 2032. This is a 3 volt lithium battery. Equivalent part numbers from other companies include DL2032, BR2032, KL2032, L2032, ECR2032, 5004LC, KCR2032, E-CR2032, KECR2032, SB-T15, L14. *Important note:* This is the same battery as is used in a 'Tamagotchi' virtual pet, so, if you have a child under 12 in your house, you can scarf the battery out of their Tamagotchi._








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/PhaetonKeyBattery.jpg

*Antennas needed for Keyless Entry*
Note that the reception range of the interior and exterior antennas does not overlap. There are two different and distinct zones - inside and outside.
Also be aware that the exterior door handles themselves function as antennas.








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/KeylessAccessAntennas.jpg









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/KeylessAccessAntennasRear.jpg


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (UK) - Keyless entry/exit problems (V10NRB)*

Perhaps the earlier post was one of mine. I don't remember if I started the thread or just posted in it. In any event, my keyless problem is back too. The black push buttons in the exterior door handles stopped working (again) and the micro switch in the trunk stopped responding too. The car has been covered in snow and ice in recent weeks. When I touch the door handle, the car does not unlock, I have to use the button on the key fob. When the car was in for its 40k service I mentioned the issue, but there were no codes. An intermittent issue, so it seems.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton V10 (Paldi)*

Fred, if I were you, I would focus my initial troubleshooting and diagnostic efforts on the state of charge of the left hand battery.
Somehow, I just can't see this being a keyless access problem... but I sure can see it being a sequelæ arising from a low charge on the left battery. All the clues point in that direction - age of the battery, cold temperatures, problem comes and goes, etc.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: car wash and keyless access (dzier)*

My Phaeton has gone through a week long winter freeze with ice covering much of the car due to snow and ice storms or morning frost. During this period I have not taken it through a car wash.
At present NONE of the locks will operate by touching the door handles, pressing on the exterior door handle buttons or the trunk micro switch. Both key fobs are working fine - locking and unlocking remotely.
I assume the controller has either gone to sleep to protect itself from a faulty door handle switch or it is fried. Last time this happened it cleared itself in a day or two. Not this time.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: car wash and keyless access (Paldi)*

Hi Fred:

I recall that a similar discussion has come up in another thread recently. Although I would not rule out the possibility of a problem with the keyless access system, my first troubleshooting and diagnostics efforts would focus on the health of the left hand battery (vehicle power supply battery), rather than the keyless access system.

Perhaps take the car to the dealer and ask them to test the left battery using the Midtronics tester... see what kind of results you get. Next thing I would do is replace the button battery in the key fob and see if that makes a difference. Both of these actions are far less invasive (and far less costly) than getting into troubleshooting of the keyless access system.

Note that you can get replacement button batteries for the key fob for about $3 at Circuit City or other similar 'big box' electronics retailers. It is a very common battery. Here is a link to a post with battery replacement instructions: Keys, Key Blades, Immobilizers, and Remote Unlocking.

Here is a link to a post that explains how to test the health of the left hand battery using the Midtronics tester: J367 Battery Monitoring Controller Replacement.

Michael

*It's quick and easy to check the battery charge level with the special tool.*
_The battery does not have to be removed, the Phaeton does not even have to come into the shop - the work can be completed in 3 minutes. 
Be sure to set the testing tool to AGM before testing the left battery!_








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/TestingBattery.jpg

*Sample of the reports provided by the battery testing tool.*
_This takes all the guesswork out of concerns about the battery itself._








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/BatteryTestResultsSample.jpg


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: car wash and keyless access (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Michael. 
Both main key fob batteries were replaced about 6 months ago. I don't recall if I replaced the valet key battery then too. If the 'left' battery is weak, keep in mind the battery controller was also replaced about 5,000 miles back (at the service before they replaced the transmission). I'll have them check on it.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: car wash and keyless access (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_...If the 'left' battery is weak, keep in mind the battery controller was also replaced about 5,000 miles back (at the service before they replaced the transmission)...

That's actually why I am suggesting you make a careful investigation of the present health of that left battery. There has been some anecdotal evidence lately that perhaps left batteries on 2004 cars are failing before their normal life expectancy because of their 'lack of proper nutrition' prior to the replacement of the battery controller.
We don't have any hard evidence of this yet, which is why we need to collect data from about half a dozen 2004 vehicles and see what the data shows. Thus my suggestion that you have the battery tested "as it sits" to see if it is properly charged. If it is not properly charged (but you do have the correct battery controller installed), then the next step is to hook it up to the Midtronics charger (not the tester, but the charger, a different Midtronics special tool) and charge it. At the end of that charging cycle, the Midtronics charger will either say "All done, drive away" (or words to that effect), or "Replace Battery". If it says "Replace Battery" - well, you have found the culprit.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

The battery, if weakened by a bad controller, could fail early... is that a warranty replacement item then? In any event, so far, this is the only electrical glitch, knock wood. 


_Modified by Paldi at 8:19 PM 3-2-2007_


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (PanEuropean)*

I've also notice my car takes a split second longer to initiate the starting sequence when I turn the ignition switch. 
Before my current Kessey woe was noticed, I remember one of those little "ah ha!!" events when the car began its start sequence, stopped and then began again. I ignored it, but a few days later I noticed the door stopped unlocking when I touched it. 
Maybe a clue. I'll keep you all posted - it goes into service on Tuesday.



_Modified by Paldi at 9:01 AM 3-3-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_The battery, if weakened by a bad controller, could fail early... 

That is the hypothesis, but it has not been proven yet. If it turns out to be the case, the normal new car warranty covers the battery in the same manner as any other component - 4 years or 50K miles, whichever comes first.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Help! Key less access stopped working. (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Michael, you might want to merge this thread with the newer one. 

Good idea, I did just that, and retitled the thread.
Michael


----------



## DAchener (Dec 24, 2006)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (whealy)*

I have keyless access, but I can not open my rear doors unless I use my key fob, but I can lock the car pressing any one of the four sensors on the door handles. Should I be able to open the rear doors without using my key fob?
Dominique


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (DAchener)*

Yes. Your VW dealer should be able to solve this problem for you. See the first page of this discussion for full details.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

The kessey started working again this evening after being off line all week. I washed the road salt off car at a car wash yesterday afternoon, and took it for a 100 mile round trip this evening. Should I keep my service appointment on Tuesday?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (Paldi)*

Yes - get that left battery checked out.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

Guess you're right. In the 2 mile trip from Starbucks to home base the system quit again. At present only the trunk micro switch is working - the door buttons and the capacitive unlock feature are both again kaput.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (Paldi)*

Fred:
I'm wondering (just a shot in the dark) if there might be communications problems in your car? Have a look at this post: Sound System - low volume and unadjustable, and perhaps ask the techs at your VW dealership to check to see what software version you have in your instrument cluster.
Although you might wonder "what the heck does the instrument cluster have to do with this", the instrument cluster happens to contain the gateway through which all data in the car passes. Have a look at this post for more background information on data transmission: Phaeton controller addresses, controller network topology. The flash update of the instrument cluster controller to software version 21 is a simple and inexpensive task to carry out, and requires no intervention or disassembly. In fact, in all markets of the world other than North America, it is a mandatory vehicle update that is carried out without comment anytime the car is in for service. In North America, you have to ask for it (in other words, explain that you are seeing distortion on the display screen in the instrument cluster).
I'm still betting my money on a weak left hand battery, but I'll hedge my bet by placing a side bet on instrument cluster (gateway) software. I'll give you 100 to 1 odds against there being anything wrong with the keyless access system itself (the access and start control module, or the door handles). 
If the tech discovers that the left battery is in excellent health, and the instrument cluster is at software version 21, and the keyless access system still does not work right, then the next step in the troubleshooting process is to look for an exterior door LOCKING button (the rectangular black button) that is stuck (internally shorted out) in the closed position - in other words, always sending a message that someone is pressing the button in an attempt to lock the car. The status of these buttons can be observed in the MVB (measured value blocks) for each of the four buttons. See the third post on the first page of this topic for detailed information. There are known issues with water infiltrating into those push-buttons on some MY 2004 Phaetons, in fact, I have had two door handles replaced on my Phaeton because of that exact problem. Further information about door handle replacement can be found on the first page of this topic.
But, as always, rule out the things that are easy and inexpensive to fix before you go looking at the difficult and expensive things. The left battery and the software update are both easy and inexpensive.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

No luck today. The car was dropped off Tuesday with the kessy not working. Yesterday it started working at the dealership. No codes or hint as to why it had stopped working for a week. So this afternoon I picked it up and took my 40 mile commute to the nursing home. It worked when I arrived. After arriving back home tonight it's not working again. Anybody have a clue? Battery was supposed to have checked out OK, and while the software is an old version the VW tech people said (in so many words) the flash upgrade doesn't affect operation of the two Kessey controllers (one controlls the push button locks, the other the capacitive unlocking system). They say they will be ready to carry out additional tests if it failed again. It has. But the good news is a hurting 40k miles Phaeton is 'way better' than a new Chevy Cobalt rental. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif











_Modified by Paldi at 10:14 AM 3-9-2007_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (Paldi)*

Fred, I would almost think (about 80% certainty) that if there are no codes generated, then it must be an electrical power issue.
If there is anything wrong with a controller, it generates a code. Period, no exceptions. Even if a fault condition only exists for one second, a code is recorded, and if the same fault condition is not present when the car is scanned with a diagnostic scan tool, the fault will be reported as 'intermittent'. In other words, 'intermittent' means the fault was present at some time in the past, but was not present when the diagnostic scan was done.
Did the technician check the function of the four push-buttons on the exterior door handles, using the diagnostic scan tool to observe measured value blocks? If even one button is sticking (shorted) in the IN position, that will disable the whole keyless entry system.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

This morning it's still not working. I drove it a mile to this little coffee shop and decided, on a hunch, to open and slam the right front passenger door. Now it's working again, at least the push button on that door worked. If, as you say, a problem with one door handle will disable the whole system, my thought was to go mess with the door handle that was replaced and which door has been rattling for a year. Good advice, thanks!
This is good coffee.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_...my thought was to go mess with the door handle that was replaced and which door has been rattling for a year.

Well, yes and no. There is a 'one in four' chance that the handle that was replaced might be the problem. What your tech really needs to do is observe the MVB for each handle, and operate the push-button for each handle about a dozen times while observing the MVB, until he or she finds the one that is failing intermittently in the 'closed' position.
If a button fails in the 'open' position, it won't affect operation of the system (although you won't be able to lock the car from that button), but if a button fails in the closed position, you won't be able to use the keyless entry system to lock or unlock the car from *any *door.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

My theory is the anti-rattle clips on the replaced door handle were not re-attached causing the rattle, abrasion to the wiring harnass and shorting out the wires intermittantly. I don't know if I can prove this theory. Will a short circuit show up in the MVB?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Yes, the measured value blocks (MVB) will show the state of the circuit - by example, open (the normal value), closed, short to ground, missing ground, improbable, steady-state or intermittent. I rather doubt that you will find a wiring harness problem - I think you will find a defective button that has failed closed due to water infiltration.
Michael


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

OK, whatever the cause, the 'slam the front passenger door cure' worked again today.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

The kessey is back on the fritz and slamming dors doesn't help. In addition, the infotainment is going batty with the map and navi functions freezing and the navi cutting on and off in mid-route.That finally cleared up but the kessey is still down. I have another service appointment on the 19th.
[edit] All running well this afternoon.
_Modified by Paldi at 12:34 PM 3-14-2007_
[edit] Kessey stopped working again but the navigation is OK.
_Modified by Paldi at 7:16 PM 3-14-2007_
[edit] Kessey is working this morning.


_Modified by Paldi at 11:23 AM 3-15-2007_


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

This sounds like me the first two years I had my Phaeton. After ranting and raving early last year, the Phaeton technical team descended upon Indianapolis and they updgraded all controllers and software, kessey and sensors on my car. Michael told me that I had a 2006 in software and controllers. I also went through 4 infotainment units in the early years as well.
Looks like Paldi is taking over my old thrown.


_Modified by dzier at 1:52 PM 3-26-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dzier)*

Phaeton owners outside of North America (Europe, etc.) who are having problems with the pushbutton exterior door handle *locking *feature of the keyless access system should ask their VW dealer to look up Technical Solution 2012826. This fully addresses what needs to be done to solve the problem.
VW North America has not released this document in Technical Bulletin form yet.
Michael


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
*On my car, which has a motorized trunk lid (it goes up and down by itself, using a little hydraulic mechanism to open and close the lid), all I have to do is press the VW logo on the trunk of the car - with the key in my pocket - and it opens.*
I believe (99%) that the cars that do not have the hydraulic powered lid do not have a push-button (microswitch) embedded in the VW logo either. On those cars, I think the only way you can open the trunk lid from the rear of the car is either by pressing the button on the key fob, or sticking the key blade into the lock and turning the key blade.
Michael

Michael,
I have never been able to open my hydraulic powered trunk by pressing the VW logo on the trunk. What could be wrong?



_Modified by maverixz at 7:47 AM 4-17-2007_


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Give the badge a firm prob at the point where the V meets the W, you should feel the click from the microswitch and the the boot should open.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (maverixz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maverixz* »_I have never been able to open my hydraulic powered trunck by pressing the VW logo on the trunk. What could be wrong?


Hi Malcolm:

My first guess (most probable reason) is that you might not be pressing the correct spot on the logo. It took me a while to figure it out.

You want to press on the top of the 'W' (the W being the bottom portion of the logo), not the bottom of the 'V'. In other words, there is a thin horizontal line between the V at the top and the W at the bottom - press just below that thin horizontal line. You should hear a very faint click as the microswitch actuates. If you can hear the click but the trunk lid does not open, then you have a problem with either the switch (not likely) or the controller (more likely). If that is the case, see this post: J605 Trunk Lid Control Module – how to replace.

Lastly - just double-check to make sure that you do in fact have the power trunk lid option installed. If it is present, the lower edge of your trunk lid will look like the middle of the three photos.

Michael

*Where to press*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/PowerTrunkButton.jpg

*Power Trunk Lid - lower edge of lid*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/4E7Trunk.jpg

*NON Power Trunk Lid - this one will not open by pressing the logo*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/4E2Trunk.jpg


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_...they don't have to disassemble the inside of the door to do it.

Hi:

My guess is that the technician thinks that he will not have to disassemble the inside door panel to replace the exterior handle because the information presented in the Phaeton repair manual does not indicate that it is necessary to take the inside door panel off.

This is true if the car does not have keyless access. But, if the car has keyless access, the cable from the door handle is clipped (twice!) to an inside portion of the metal door in such a location that it is necessary to take the inside door panel off to disengage the clip. The service manual fails to mention this.

Below are a couple of photos that illustrate what the service manual fails to mention. It would be darn kind of you to print them out for your Phaeton technician ahead of time, to save him or her the frustration that the staff at my VW dealership went through when they had to discover this the hard way. Also, your tech will need to charge far more labour time than the SRT (suggested repair time) allows, because the SRT does not take into account the need to remove and replace the inside door panel.

My guess is that it will probably take the tech between 2 and 3 hours to replace two handles if he or she has not done the work previously. Also - a last very important tip - the round black domes on the tweeter covers of the inside door panels are very easy to deform - so be very careful to not ever lay the door panel down with the tweeters resting on anything - ask me how I know this...

Michael

*This is one of the little clips (anti-rattle devices) that have to be removed*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleClip1.jpg

*Here you can see a view of both clips, taken from the inside after the interior door panel was removed*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleClip2.jpg

*This is a close-up detail from the picture above*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleClip3.jpg


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

Those anti-rattle clips rattle if they are not clipped in place. I "think" it's the source of my door rattle.


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I followed the instructions and it didn't open. Is this something that I can take to the dealership for repairs while it is still under the original warranty?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (maverixz)*

Hi Malcolm:
Sure, the warranty will cover it, and it is not a difficult job for your dealer to diagnose and solve the problem. Most likely your car contains a fault code that will pinpoint exactly what is causing the problem, so all your tech has to do is complete a diagnostic scan on the car and find out what the cause of the problem is.
My guess, assuming nothing is mechanically broken (e.g. the switch) and assuming nothing is disconnected (e.g. the cable) is that one of two actions may be necessary:
*1)* Re-adapt the power trunk lid so that the lid knows what the physical limits of fully open and fully closed are. This task can be carried out quite easily using the "Guided Functions" section of the VW 505x diagnostic scan tool. But... before you take the car to the dealer, perhaps try to reset things yourself. We have a post here on the forum that explains how to do this: click here.
*2)* Replace the controller for the trunk lid if it is defective. This is an easy task, it does not require much disassembly. Instructions can be found here: How to replace the J605 Trunk Lid Control Module . Be aware that it is essential that your VW technician re-adapt the trunk lid controller after installing a new one - same as with any other controller that controls moving objects, for example, window or sunroof controllers. Adaptation instructions (in case the tech wants to do it manually, rather than using Guided Functions) are provided at the end of the 'How to replace the J605 controller' post.
There is a very slight chance (probably less than 1%) that your problem is a result of damage to the big fat cable that runs from the trunk lid to the body of the car. So, just have a quick look at that cable yourself and make sure that it does not show any evidence of wear or abrasion. There is a post here that explains what to look for: Broken Sleeve on Electrical Harness leading to Trunk Lid. You don't have to use a magnifying glass - if there is a problem, it will be readily apparent.
Let us know how it goes.
Michael
*PS:* While you have the car in at the dealership, perhaps ask the service staff to confirm that the following actions have been carried out:
*a)* TB: 00-06-02 and 37-07-08 - W12 Underbody Cover Attachment Modification
*b)* Flash upgrade of instrument cluster software to version xx21 - see this post: TB: 90-05-04 Distortion in the Display Unit in the Instrument Cluster (MFI, or Y24)
*c)* Battery Controller Replacement - TB 27-06-02, RVU (Campaign OH) (this is ESSENTIAL!)


----------



## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, thank you very much. I will keep everyone abreast of any information I get from my visit to the service department.


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

Update on my truck release issue. I was told that my car didn't come with the feature by the service people which I find very strange considering the fact that I have the exact same features as your photo below indicates.









*Power Trunk Lid - lower edge of lid*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/4E7Trunk.jpg

I will update this posting with a picture of my trunk similar to the one above when I get home tonight.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (maverixz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maverixz* »_I was told that my car didn't come with the feature by the service people which I find very strange considering the fact that I have the exact same features as your photo _(above)_ indicates.

Hi Malcolm:

Uh - I don't know what to say - there are only two different trunk lid configurations on a Phaeton, one is the power trunk lid as illustrated above, and the other is the non-power trunk lid, as illustrated below. As you can see, the physical differences are pretty significant:

*1)* Power trunk lid latch retracts flush with lower edge of trunk;
*2)* Non-power trunk lid latch protrudes about 3 inches and has a plastic bezel around it;
*3)* Power trunk lid has a rectangular button on the lower edge of the trunk lid, to the right of the latch,
*4)* Trunk lid hinges on power trunk lid cars are forged and polished aluminum, in the original aluminum colour;
*5)* Trunk lid hinges on non-power trunk lid cars are pressed metal, and are painted to match the colour of the car.

Finally, if all that doesn't settle it, lift up the floor of the trunk, and look in the right rear corner of the spare tire well. You will find a sticker there called the "build sticker" for the car. It will have a whole series of three character codes on it. If it has the code *4E7* printed on it, it has a power trunk lid. If it has the code *4E2* printed on it, it does not have a power trunk lid.

I think it might be a good idea if you gave Phaeton Customer Care a phone call, and explained the difficulties that you are having to them. They will be able to put your local VW dealer in touch with someone from VW technical support who can assist them further. The phone number for Phaeton Customer Care is +1 (877) 742 3866. This is a toll free number.

Michael

*Non-powered trunk lid*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/4E2Trunk.jpg

*Powered Trunk Lid*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/4E7Trunk.jpg

*Note polished aluminum hinges on cars that are equipped with power trunk lid.*
*If your trunk lid hinges are NOT painted the same colour as the body of the car - in other words, if they look like the hinges in the photo below - then you have a power trunk lid. It is that simple.*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/TrunkMat1.jpg


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I did not realize the hinge difference. I thought we all had the same shiny hinges. You always bring something fresh and new to old discussions. At least for me.


----------



## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
It was the most weird thing to be told that VW didn't install the device in my car. Below is the picture of my trunk.









Picture of hinges.










_Modified by maverixz at 9:29 PM 4-24-2007_


----------



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Entry on Passenger Side*

Within the past month or two, my passenger front door lock button failed and several weeks later the rear passenger door lock button failed. Just thought I'd let you know that another '04 has the same problem! 
And I just noticed that my cable harness cover in the trunk is starting to come loose.
The repair list is growing....
As usual, thanks for all the info here, it's greatly appreciated.
Robert


----------



## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Keyless Entry on Passenger Side (rscharf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_Within the past month or two, my passenger front door lock button failed and several weeks later the rear passenger door lock button failed. Just thought I'd let you know that another '04 has the same problem! 
Robert

I see that my problem with the passenger side door lock button is not all that uncommon. From what I've read it appears to effect the passenger side more often than the drivers side. Mine is going in for repairs on Monday… I might just include a link to this thread for the technician to use as reference.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Entry on Passenger Side (Auzivision)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Auzivision* »_I see that my problem with the passenger side door lock button is not all that uncommon. 

Correct. It is a known issue with some MY 2004 Phaetons. It is caused by water infiltrating into the area behind the rubber-capped locking button. The water gets in there whenever high pressure sprayers are aimed at the door handle. This can be correlated with use of high pressure touchless car washes, but it is not a perfect correlation.
My guess is that the passenger side buttons fail first because they are the ones that are least often used. On the driver side, we use the two buttons (front and rear) a lot more, and this has the effect of squeezing water out of the switch mechanism before corrosion can take place.
Michael


----------



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

Michael-
Thanks for the info on what Measured Value Blocks (MVB) to look at to verify that the car is not receiving a signal from the lock buttons. After taking my car in 11/20/07, and providing the technician with the info from this post, I don't think he used it. I think he felt that an error code would be generated when the lock buttons don't work. He claimed that the doors worked ok for him. When my car was brought around on the service drive, I asked the technician to come out and showed him how the passenger lock buttons did not work. He wanted me to bring in all my keys to rule out a key fob problem. That Friday I hooked up the Vagcom and found the MVBs you referred to. Sure enough, there was never a signal from the passenger side lock buttons and the driver's side lock buttons registered as something like 'Activated' when I pushed them. I didn't think I knew enough about Vagcom to do the test you mentioned, but it was very easy. I walked in the dealership that Saturday and talked with the Service Manager. I told him what I discovered and asked if there was a technician that I could show by hooking up the vagcom on their service drive. He didn't think they had anyone qualified to verify what I was seeing in the vagcom. This was funny to me since I'm by no means a mechanic, but my ability to run a computer and software allowed me to verify a failed component. Anyways, the service advisor said, 'Didn't the locks not work when you were on the service drive with the tech, that's good enough for me'. So, they are ordering the door handles for the passenger side and they will be replaced in January along with the wire sheath in the trunk.
I met another Phaeton owner on the service drive and told him about this website.
Thanks again for you continued supply of information!
Robert


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (rscharf)*

To be fair to the technicians out there, the Phaeton is kind of uncommon. On the other hand, the technician should be familiar with the use of the VAS 5051 or 5052 diagnostic scan tool (basically the same capabilities as a VAG-COM) to observe the status of switches in any VW, whether they are Phaeton keyless access locking switches or the gas cap flap unlock switch on an 8 year old Golf CL.
Glad to hear the information here in the forum was useful - that's the whole purpose of our forum!
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

Photos re-hosted.


----------



## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton*

I have a 2004 Phaeton. 
The doors on this car would unlock when you put your hand inside the door handle as long as you had the key in your pocket. You could lock the doors by pushing a black square on any of the four door handles, again, as long as the key was in your pocket.
Both of these functions have stopped working, with any of my keys. I must lock and unlock using the buttons on the keys. 
Any clue as to what might have happened and how to fix this issue would be appreciated.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (Hawkeye_Ben)*

Hello Ben:
Welcome to the forum.
There are several possible causes for your difficulty. The most probable one is failure due to water infiltration of the switch circuitry behind the little rectangular rubber button (the locking button).
We have a discussion thread here that explains what the fix is, but before jumping into the fix, best to have the function of the locking buttons checked by a VW tech using a diagnostic scan tool. That will tell you if the button(s) are the cause of the problem or not.
Here is where to go for further information: Keyless Entry Issues (consolidated discussions).
Also, being new to the forum community, you might enjoy browsing through our 'Frequently Asked Questions' list - there's lots of interesting stuff there. Click here: Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category)
Michael


----------



## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Michael,
Sorry about starting a new thread but I was unable to find this one.
My problem is more global than just a single locking button. I had two of the latch handles replaced while the car was still under warrantee. My issue is that the system that senses the proximity of the key seems to have stopped working all together. No keyless access (lock or unlock) any any door works at all. I replaced the key batteries ($6 cheap fix) to no avail. I suspect that this problem may be associated with the “Tyre Pressure Monitoring Fault” that I have been getting lately.
Any thoughts? I will take it to my dealer to run diagnostics but I wanted to get some background on the operation of this system first.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prince Ludwig* »_Give the badge a firm prob at the point where the V meets the W, you should feel the click from the microswitch and the the boot should open.

For what it's worth, I just came on this thread, and may add that on my car (I don't know if this detail has been written down somewhere previously), when the car is locked, I can open the boot (with the key in my pocket) by double-clicking on the VW badge. (one click won't open it when the car is locked).
Z.


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (Zaphh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zaphh* »_...I can open the boot (with the key in my pocket) by double-clicking on the VW badge. (one click won't open it when the car is locked).

Try holding the first press a little longer. It should open.
Steven


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (Hawkeye_Ben)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hawkeye_Ben* »_Any thoughts? I will take it to my dealer to run diagnostics but I wanted to get some background on the operation of this system first.


Here is the sequence in which I suggest you approach troubleshooting. The order of the actions is quite deliberate, it is intended to rule out the simplest things first and to get the problem solved with a minimum of expense and minimum of disassembly.
*1)* Buy a battery charger and charge up the left battery overnight. There is information about a battery charger suitable for the Phaeton here: NAPA Battery Maintainer for a Phaeton (Includes TB 00-03-11, 27–04–01, and 27–06–06). Be aware that low voltage on the left battery is the most common cause of all sorts of spurious problems with other systems.
*2)* If this solves the problem, then get the battery tested using the Midtronics battery test tool at your VW dealership. Model Year 2004 Phaetons were constructed in 2003, the batteries are now 5 years old and that is approaching the reasonable life expectancy of a battery. More info about how to test the battery is here: Indications of problems arising from low charge on left battery.
*3)* If charging the battery made no difference, you can skip step 2. The next thing to do is to have your Phaeton tech check the function of all four push-to-lock buttons on the outside door handles. It only takes one button stuck in the closed position to shut down the whole system. Your tech can check the function of the buttons by looking at the measured value blocks for each button. Chances are you will find that one of the four handles is no good and needs to be replaced.
*4)* If all four handles check out OK, then replace the Access and Start Controller (controller 05) which is located under the driver footwell. It doesn't matter if the controller is not showing a fault code, if you have ruled out the battery and ruled out the individual locking push-buttons, then the problem is the controller. Information about how to replace it (indirect information) can be found at this post: Retrofitting Keyless Start to a North American Phaeton. It is essential that you bring all of your car keys with you when you take the car in to have this controller replaced, because all the keys will need to be adapted again.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_Try holding the first press a little longer. It should open.

Zaphh has a European (ROW spec) Phaeton. There are differences in the behavior of the ROW and NAR spec cars. Both of you are correct, but only for the vehicles that you own (Zaphh - ROW, and Steven - NAR).
Michael


----------



## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thanks for the help. I will let you know how it turns out.
Ben


----------



## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I have read through the posts on "Indications of problems arising from low charge on left battery" and it has been very informative.
This "vehicle power supply" battery in my car does not appear to be an Absorbed Glass Mat battery. It is vented (unsealed) and does not say "AGM" on it anywhere. It appears to be original equipment. Can this battery be a normal "flooded' style maintenance free battery?
Regards.
Ben

_Modified by Hawkeye_Ben at 3:26 PM 8-19-2008_


_Modified by Hawkeye_Ben at 3:26 PM 8-19-2008_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (Hawkeye_Ben)*

The OEM battery looks like this:









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/Left_battery-side_view-1.jpg


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Here is a better view of the top:









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/Left_battery-top_view-2.jpg


----------



## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

I will attempt to get a better picture later but this battery has none of the VW badging and is not marked AGM anywhere. I have owned the car since Oct. 2005 when it had 19k on the clock. My dealer has no record of a battery change since I owned the car. Very strange. Will using a "flooded" no maintenance battery in this position for 3 years cause any lasting damage?









http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo285/Hawkeye_Ben/CIMG0403.jpg


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (Hawkeye_Ben)*

Ben:
It looks a heck of a lot like the OEM battery, at least, based on the parts of it that I can see, anyway.
Note that in the picture I posted above, the case of the battery is branded (hot stamped) with 'VW AG' near one of the terminals. Have a look for that brand.
It is unusual for the battery to not have a label on it, but perhaps the label is on the other side. Try and look at the top of the battery, towards the rear, and see if you can find a rating on it.
Michael


----------



## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Entry 2004 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I had my battery checked out. It is the correct AG / OEM battery and the it checks out fine. Fualt codes associated with my unoperative keyless access are as follows:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 M HW: 5WK 470 26
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0133356
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX
2 Faults Found:
00003 - Control Module 
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00576 - Terminal 15 
009 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: HSG 0101 
Coding: 0000032
Shop #: WSC 98765 666 30407
Part No: 3D1 959 701 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 5616
Part No: 3D1 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 5616
Part No: 3D0 959 703 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 5616
Part No: 3D0 959 704 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 5616
5 Faults Found:
01504 - Bulb for License-Plate Light (X) 
009 - Open or Short to Ground
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
008 - Implausible Signal
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221) 
008 - Implausible Signal
00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222) 
008 - Implausible Signal
00931 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Right (F223) 
008 - Implausible Signal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any thoughts on the next plan of attack?
Ben


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (whealy)*

Ben:
The source of the problem most likely lies with the first two fault codes listed up at the top of the diagnostic scan: the "Electrical Fault in Circuit" and "Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent" faults.
The "Electrical Fault in Circuit" fault is a hard fault. It doesn't have the word intermittent after it, that means that the fault was present at the time you did the scan. The "Open or Short to Ground" fault is listed as being intermittent, in other words, it existed at some time in the past, but did not exist at the time you did the scan.
Go after the "Electrical Fault in Circuit", get that resolved, and the "Open or Short to Ground" will probably get cleaned up in the process. I have no idea what is causing the electrical fault, whether it is in the wiring harness or in the controller. Be aware that the access and start controller is vulnerable to damage from underneath the car - see this post: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions.
I suspect that the faults you see on controller 46 are caused by the "Electrical Fault in Circuit" from controller 05. In other words, controller 05 (the vehicle access controller) both gets information from and sends information to controller 46 (the comfort controller).
Your VW dealer should be able to solve the controller 05 problems using Guided Fault Finding.
Michael


----------



## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

PanEuropean, I can't make out the part number for the special panel removal tool. What is the part number? Where can I purchase the tool?
Thanks
Robert


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (GS340)*

The trim tool? It doesn't really have a part number - it is made for VW by Snap-On, you can buy one from just about any Snap-On dealer. It is a very generic part, just ask for a "trim removal tool". It is commonly referred to as a "bone" in the trade.

Michael

*Trim Removal Tool*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/Sunroof1.jpg


----------



## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

... the door panel tool. You talk about it on the first page.

Thanks!! 









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DoorHandleReplacement2.jpg


----------



## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (GS340)*

Figured out the part number. 799-6 hazet..
thanks
Robert



_Modified by GS340 at 1:54 PM 4-22-2009_


----------



## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Sorry for the duplicate post, but I found this thread & thought my question would be more appropriate here rather than a general VAG-COM thread.
I recently replaced my comfort battery & shortly afterward began having problems with the KESSY in that it will not unlock the doors when I touch the handles. I have scanned & identified fault codes that keep returning after I clear them. Any thoughts?
Saturday,09,May,2009,10:07:37:11282
VCDS Version: Release 805.3
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth.
Control Module Part Number: 3D0 909 135 M
Component and/or Version: Kessy 6400
Software Coding: 0133356
Work Shop Code: WSC 01065
Additional Info: 4E0905852C ELV 1734 
Additional Info: Geraet 00000
5 Faults Found:
00179 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Drivers Side (R134) 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
00180 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Passenger Side (R135) 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
00181 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna (in Rear bumper) (R136) 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
00182 - Luggage Compartment Access/Start Authorization Antenna (R137) 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
00183 - Interior Access/Start Authorization Antenna 1 (R138) 
011 - Open Circuit
Any idea which internal antenna is the R138? Is it the one below the shifter or is it the one within the cabin light/sunroof assembly?
Thanks,
George


----------



## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (oldham4)*

Unbelievably today, the keyless entry started to work again. I was thrilled, but my hopes were quickly dashed when in my next driving cycle it stopped working. UGH!


----------



## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (oldham4)*

Does anyone have access to a diagram of locations for the various antennas? I would particularly like to find the "Interior Access/Start Authorization Antenna 1 (R138)" that is beingg reported as an open circuit by the VAG-COM.
Thanks,
George


----------



## stephaneleclerc (Jun 23, 2009)

*KEYLESS ACCESS STOPED WORKING*

YHell9o,
My keyless access stoped working, any idea what the problem may be.
Thanks for your replies.
Stephane


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: KEYLESS ACCESS STOPED WORKING (stephaneleclerc)*

Yay!
Same thing here since about a week ago. Keyless start/stop works but neither doors nor trunk unlock keylessly. Remote unlock/lock works. 
Going to the dealer today for annual maintenance (after only 3,000 miles in 12 months!) and this should be covered by CPO.
BTW about a year ago I had something similar happen but it was only the trunk that experienced such a keyless failure. The issue self-fixed itself when the technician flushed out all the warning messages from the computer, which included a computer-generated warning for the trunk's keyless. 
He also let me know that if the issue had not fixed itself, he wouldn't necessarily have fixed it at no charge for me. Reason? There is a tiny scratch in my bumper. The trunk's keyless antenna is apparently in the bumper. The antenna is apparently quite a delicate thing. He said if he disassembled the bumper and the reason for the failure had been any sort of internal movement due to the scratch... I would have to pay for the whole thing. Explaining that the scratch has been there for years yet the failure was only two weeks old didn't take me anywhere. It was a moot but still revealing discussion.










_Modified by Itzmann at 5:08 AM 7-27-2009_


----------



## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: KEYLESS ACCESS STOPPED WORKING (Itzmann)*

I just had the rear bumper cover off of my 2005 Phaeton this weekend. For the antennas to be moved, or otherwise affected by a casual collision, a significant amount of damage would have to be done to your bumper cover. The antennas are mounted below and about eight inches inboard the tail light assemblies in the rear fenders. The rear bumper cover, covers a substantial beam that goes across the width of the car and the antennas are protected by that as well. 

In this picture, the antenna is the black box near the bottom corner of the trunk opening. As you can see, there is one on each side.









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/TrailerHitchInstall3.jpg


This is not a picture of my car, even though mine looks very much like it (sans trailer hitch and related hardware). The photo was "borrowed" from the discussion thread that discusses mounting a trailer hitch on a Phaeton. Photo credit: Pan European.


_Modified by 357Sig at 11:53 PM 8-5-2009_


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: KEYLESS ACCESS STOPED WORKING (357Sig)*

Thank you very much. Filed for future reference.


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: KEYLESS ACCESS STOPED WORKING (stephaneleclerc)*

Update: some component of my car locks (there are five of them), presumably the keyless component of said locks, report "open circuit" to the computer that stores error codes. All five locks!. When this happens, some other computer goes ahead and takes the initiative... to tell the supposedly malfunctioning components to bugger off/shut down.
Reseting or deleting the error codes revives the keyless access to the locks, but after one or two uses the keyless is again asked to shut down after open circuits are reported by the locks.
So it would seem one might have to replace all five open-circuit reporting locks, uh? Well, my mechanic has faced similar problems in Touaregs and Phaetons, so he is not proposing to do any of that just yet. He'll try and look into a controller-thingy for the locks first... and will keep me posted. Seems eminently reasonable.
The only thing is ... keyless Start/Stop works well... so is it possible the controller for the outside locks is different from the controller for the inside Start/Stop button?


----------



## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: KEYLESS ACCESS STOPED WORKING (Itzmann)*

Stephane & Francisco ,
I have had this same problem since May '09. I have scanned & identified fault codes that keep returning after I clear them. Any thoughts? VAG-COM reports an open circuit in Antenna R138 which is reportedly one of three internal antennas in the cabin of the Phaeton. I have not been able to determine what is wrong, and the Dealership wants to replace the KESSY. I will be very interested to see if you find a resolution to your problem. Here are the results from the VAG-COM scan.
Saturday,09,May,2009,10:07:37:11282
VCDS Version: Release 805.3
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth.
Control Module Part Number: 3D0 909 135 M
Component and/or Version: Kessy 6400
Software Coding: 0133356
Work Shop Code: WSC 01065
Additional Info: 4E0905852C ELV 1734 
Additional Info: Geraet 00000
5 Faults Found:
00179 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Drivers Side (R134) 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
00180 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Passenger Side (R135) 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
00181 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna (in Rear bumper) (R136) 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
00182 - Luggage Compartment Access/Start Authorization Antenna (R137) 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded
00183 - Interior Access/Start Authorization Antenna 1 (R138) 
011 - Open Circuit
Thanks,
George


_Modified by oldham4 at 6:18 AM 7-28-2009_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access has Stopped Working (oldham4)*

Hi George:
If controller 05 is the only one that is generating faults - meaning, if you are not seeing all sorts of low-voltage faults on other controllers at the same time you see the faults you have posted above - then my guess is that your KESSY (controller 05) probably has a fault and needs to be replaced.
The real question is where - physically - the fault is. If it is inside the controller - if some tiny little electronic circuit thing has failed - then great, it's just a simple matter of replacing this controller. You can see what is involved in getting access to it at this post: Retrofitting Keyless Start to a North American Phaeton. However, if there has been any contamination such as mud, water, sand, etc. deposited on the controller on on the controller terminals as a result of a missing plug on the bottom of the car (see this post: Damage arising from Towing & Flatbed Transportation), then your technician is going to have to spend quite a bit of time cleaning up the connectors... although it is, I suppose, possible that simply cleaning up the connectors might be sufficient to do the job, perhaps the controller itself is still functional.
If you are at all the 'DIY' type, I suggest you get under the carpet and take a look at the controller yourself to see if there is any evidence of water, mud, or sand infiltration. You may be able to disconnect the controller, clean everything up with a soft brush (for example, a small paintbrush), and then re-connect it.
What has me thinking it is a connector problem is the fact that you have both an open circuit AND a bunch of upper limit problems. If you only had the open circuit on the antenna, I would suspect the antenna. If you only had the four upper limit problems, I would suspect the controller. But, with two somewhat unrelated faults coming from the same controller (the open circuit and the upper limit faults), I am suspecting the connectors at the controller.
Michael


----------



## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Access has Stopped Working (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thank you for your help on this. I have gained access to the Kessy before when I did the keyless start retrofit. Once I get a new set of bolts for the seat & I will take a look at the connection. 
Interestingly & much to my surprise, the door handles started working on Friday. Then, I opened the trunk and they stopped working. After a drive cycle, they started worrking again. This has happened a couple of times. Since I have been out of town for a while, I have not been able to run the VAG-COM to see what fault codes are present. 
I suspect that there may be something wrong with the micro-switch beneath the VW emblem on the trunk. It is not working at all. Any ideas of how the trunk could be tied into all of this?
Thanks!
George


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access has Stopped Working (oldham4)*

Hi George:
Don't forget to rule out a partially discharged battery as a possible cause of the problem before you get deep into troubleshooting of the keyless access system.
When you run the diagnostic scan, look out for any 'lower limit exceeded' faults in controller 05 - if you have any of those, that suggests that low voltage is the cause of the problem, not any malfunction within the KESSY.
Michael


----------



## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*One KEYLESS Lock Stopped Working*

The front passenger keyless lock is not working. When I push the little button on the handle nothing happens. The three others work. All four doors open keylessly. The car is programmed to unlock driver side front and rear doors. Passenger front and rear open when I approach them with the key in my pocket, but not if a passenger without a key approaches those doors; even though driver side doors are open - the way it is supposed to work.
Any ideas anyone?
Thank you.
cai


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: One KEYLESS Lock Stopped Working (cai)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cai* »_The front passenger keyless lock is not working. When I push the little button on the handle nothing happens. The three others work. All four doors open keylessly...
Any ideas anyone?

Yep, see here: Door Handles - How to troubleshoot and replace exterior handles (Keyless Access button not working)
Michael

*Archival note:*
The above thread has now been merged with the one you are currently reading. Clicking on the link will take you to page 1 of the present thread.

Chris


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Keyless Access has Stopped Working (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Here are the fault codes that came up when I scanned controller 5 when I got home. No lower limit messages that may indicate a low battery. Guess I should check the KESSY connection? Thanks in advance for any other ideas.
PS: Does the order of fault codes have any significance? They are not in the same order as previous scans. Just wondering...
Thx,
George
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 M HW: 5WK 470 26
Component: Kessy 6400
Coding: 0133356
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
Part No: 4E0 905 852 C
Component: ELV 1734
5 Faults Found:
00183 - Interior Access/Start Authorization Antenna 1 (R138)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00180 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Passenger Side (R135)
011 - Open Circuit
00179 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Drivers Side (R134)
011 - Open Circuit
00181 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna (in Rear bumper) (R136)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00182 - Luggage Compartment Access/Start Authorization Antenna (R137)
011 - Open Circuit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_Modified by oldham4 at 7:53 PM 8-5-2009_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access has Stopped Working (oldham4)*

Hi George:
I don't think that the order in which fault codes are presented is significant, although I don't know 'for sure'.
Looks to me like you have a loose connection somewhere. Judging from the many different locations within the vehicle that are reporting loose connections, my guess is that the problem is at the controller itself (under the driver seat).
I may have mentioned this earlier, however, the instructions that explain how to get access to this controller can be found in the first part of the "How to install keyless start" post, which is listed in the FAQ. Plan on about 4 hours to get in there, investigate, then close everything up. Make sure you have lots of working space on the driver side of the car before you start disassembly, because you can't move the car (at least, not under its own power) once you start the job.
Michael


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: One KEYLESS Lock Stopped Working (PanEuropean)*

As mentioned above, the lock button on the passenger side does not work. The tech said that he has to take the insides of the door off to check for loose wires. I will be bringing the car in two weeks to have this work done. Here are my scan results from this morning:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049.lbl
Part No: 3D0 937 049 H
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5101 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management 
000 - - 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 B
Component: Dachmodul 0605 
Coding: 0000047
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
2 Faults Found:
00216 - Signal EC-mirror Fade Out 
009 - Open or Short to Ground
00220 - Connection to Sunroof 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: HSG 0101 
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
Part No: 3D1 959 701 K
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 5616
Part No: 3D1 959 702 K
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 5616
Part No: 3D0 959 703 J
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 5616
Part No: 3D0 959 704 J
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 5616
Part No: 3D0 909 610 C
Component: 3L HDSG 2330
Part No: 7L0 907 719 A
Component: Neigungssensor 0020
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are two intermittent ones that I did not post - one having to do with the transmission and the position setting and the other with airbags.
What can be gleaned from these above results?
Thank you.
cai


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keyless Access button fixed ... again (whealy)*

*Archival Note: *Related discussions
(this one deals more with the pushbuttons on the key fob not working, rather than keyless access not working): Troubleshooting intermittent keyfob function (door unlocking).
(this one addresses troubleshooting of the speakers in the doors, a task that also requires that the inner door panel be removed): Door trim removal -- Speaker replacement


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: One KEYLESS Lock Stopped Working (cai)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cai* »_What can be gleaned from these above results?

The only fault code that warrants investigation is this one:
00216 - Signal EC-mirror Fade Out 
009 - Open or Short to Ground
The other two (sunroof, and intervention load management) can be disregarded. None of the fault codes address the lock button on the passenger door. The failure of the lock button on the passenger door is probably caused by moisture ingress into the area behind the rubber button, and as a result, the button is failing to close the switch (make contact) when it is pressed. Because the normal state of the pushbutton on the outside of the door handle is open circuit, no fault code will be reported.
*The tech does not have to take the inside of the door apart! * That is not an appropriate action. The tech should connect a diagnostic scan tool to the car, then press each outside door handle button and observe the measured value blocks (MVBs) from the appropriate controller (likely controller 05) to see if the circuit is being made when the button is pressed. 
Read this whole thread, starting at page 1, and you will then have an excellent understanding of why your external door lock pushbutton is not working, and what is involved in solving the problem. I suggest you also print it out and give it to your tech.
Michael


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re:*

For the first time, my key less entry stopped working today. It was confusing to me because the keyless start was working and no battery warring. The trunk was ok when I press the vw logo but the capacitive sensors and the buttons on ALL the doors wasn’t working at all! 
So I brought my vag-com and found some faults there (open circuit etc.), simply by erasing all faults the system is back to life! I’m not sure what went wrong. 
I did some search here and found that the battery has nothing to do with this?? I don’t think so because when I remove the battery, both keyless entry and keyless start don’t work.
My car is 5 years old now.
I have not read all the posts here, only read the first page. I’ll read the rest later.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Re: (Kuwaity)*

Hi Ahmad:
I've had that same thing happen to me occasionally.
My guess is that the car gets a bit cranky sometimes if the voltage on the left battery is low, and one of the ways that it expresses its crankyness is to refuse to open the doors. I'm guessing that the left battery voltage in your car might have been "just a fraction" below what controller 05 (the access and start controller) needs in order to operate properly.
What I do when I encounter this problem (it happens about twice a year) is just put the left battery on the charger overnight and charge it up. The problem never recurs (until the next time the left battery gets low).
If your battery is still the original one that the car shipped with, it is probably reaching the end of its life. You can either replace it, or buy a charger and plan to give it a charge from time to time whenever it gets low.
Michael


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hello Michael, 
You’re probably right; the left battery is very old. But whenever I connect my vag-com to the car, I check the battery voltage. This time it was 12V which is low, but many times the voltage was well less than 12V and I did not have this problem. Also, I charged the left battery last Friday using a small battery charger/maintainer.
Just to clear things in my previous post: I had interchanged my Passat key battery (few months old) with the Phaeton key battery just to see what happens. After this I cleared the faults and the system was just fine.
The surprise was when I went to check the Phaeton key battery on the Passat, I couldn’t open the door by the remote keys or with the keyless entry. So I opened the door with the emergency key and also couldn’t use the key less start! The car gave me a massage “replace key battery!”
Now I’m sure that the key battery was the cause of the problem. I have no other conclusion.

A side note: Batteries usually have slightly less voltage during cold climate, today the temperature was 15 C, which is not what my car used to “feel”







maybe this lowered the left battery voltage and showed the age of the key battery.
UPDATE: Today morning the keyless entry was working. After driving to work, I couldn't lock the door with the door botton. I'll try new battery and see what happens.


_Modified by Kuwaity at 7:39 AM 11-25-2009_


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Keyless Entry*

Just had some paint work done on the drivers door and rear bumper. After the work was done, the driver's side rear door handle stopped working properly.
The black button locks the door, however, when I attempt to open the door, I have to pull the handle about a dozen times before the door will open. I can hear the lock mechanism trigger as soon as I touch the handle but I can't open the door. About 5 seconds go by as I pull the handle about a dozen times. Then the door will open. Once opened the handle works perfectly.
As soon as I lock the door again the problem comes back
Any ideas?


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## v1mbrt (Dec 25, 2007)

The
5 Faults Found:
00183 - Interior Access/Start Authorization Antenna 1 (R138)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00180 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Passenger Side (R135)
011 - Open Circuit
00179 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Drivers Side (R134)
011 - Open Circuit
00181 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna (in Rear bumper) (R136)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00182 - Luggage Compartment Access/Start Authorization Antenna (R137)
011 - Open Circuit
Do have something to do with the low-power supply to the antenna's. Mine does have this to. According the dealer, this is a common problem in the Kessy unit.
It's already an 18 months plan to investigate the kessy unit to find the defective part. Unfortunately, I'm to busy :-( Sorry.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (v1mbrt)*

Martin:
The combination of faults that you posted above can only be accounted for by one of two possible causes:
1) A loose connector - more specifically, a loose connector at the KESSY unit under the driver floor. 
2) A defective (failed) KESSY unit (controller 05).
See these posts for more information:
Retrofitting Keyless Start to Phaetons that are equipped with Keyless Entry (shows location of controller)
Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions (shows how connnector or controller can be damaged)
Michael


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## v1mbrt (Dec 25, 2007)

Yep, defective Kessy unit. The kessy unit does provide the low-power source for the antenna's. Ie the low power needed to let the antenne's work when the Phaeton is "asleep" without the ACC. battery getting discharged.
My (more or less) educated guess is, the Kessy unit does have a faulty power circuit and fails to provide the power. This reverts back with that particular type of error messages as if there's a loose connector.
I've already had the Kessy unit out of the car for investigation/repair, though the Kessy unit also is the control device for start authorisation, so without Kessy unit, the car does not run. Given taking the Kessy unit in and out is not a 5 min job and the Phaeton is my daily driver, I'm a bit stuck with the repair.....
No damage or water in the footwell.
Thx. M.


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## RichardMeyer (Mar 10, 2010)

*New member of the unresponsive Keyless Entry club*

Over the weekend my Keyless Entry System (2004 NA V8, 62k mi) became intermittently inoperable, and now it appears to be completely gone. Same fault codes as in prior postings in this thread: 

00183 - Interior Access/Start Authorization Antenna 1 (R138) 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent 
00180 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Passenger Side (R135) 
011 - Open Circuit 
00179 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Drivers Side (R134) 
011 - Open Circuit 
00181 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna (in Rear bumper) (R136) 
011 - Open Circuit 
00182 - Luggage Compartment Access/Start Authorization Antenna (R137) 
011 - Open Circuit 

Unresponsive with all keys. Cleared the fault codes (after printing hardcopy). Changed one of the key fob batteries to no avail and tested the left battery voltage (engine not running) which checked out at 12.3V - 12.4V. Have not yet tried a charger overnight on the left battery, but with the battery reading over 12.2V, I'm not optimistic. 

A couple questions: 

1. First the obvious: Has anyone found a solution short of replacing (and re-coding) the Kessy? (I think I know the answer to this one) 
2. Is it possible to squeeze a hand under the carpet (after removing the door-edge trim) and check the connector without the complete disassembly (driver's seat, dead pedal, etc.) detailed elsewhere in this thread? 
3. Is the Kessy module serviceable by a decent electronics tech, and can those low-power antennae supply components in question be easily identified? 

Thanks, 
Richard


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

> Stephane & Francisco ,
> I have had this same problem since May '09. I have scanned & identified fault codes that keep returning after I clear them. Any thoughts?


 Well, I had forgotten to come back and provide an update. 

Update 1, July 2009 - instead of replacing all five locks that were reporting open circuit or fault or whatever, the experienced technician replaced the control module that goes underneat the driver's footwell. Keyless doors performed excellently afterwards. 

Update 2, late May 2010 - right hand side keyless stopped working all of the sudden (co-pilot, rear passenger). With warranty expiration upcoming in a matter of days, new right hand side handles were ordered, painted and installed. 

Update 3, August 2010 - I swear the keyless is performing better than ever. Whereas it used to be the system would often take a short while to detect key-in-pocket presence, resulting habitually in a pull (no resistence-no open) followed by pull (unlock-door open), it is now, as far as I can tell, nearly instantaneous. Approach car, even nearly running, pull handle, voilá, door opens!  I am reporting improved performance from all four handles as a result of having changed the passenger-side handles. :thumbup: 

My car was built in November 2003.


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

*replace kessy control module*

who replaced the kessy controller underneath the seat by him/herself. can it be done?
Do I need vagcom?
Is it true that the controller is protected with a code? I can buy a used one and want to try to replace mine. But if I don't have that code I can use it, is that true?

thanks


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

and what about my existing keys?
anybody an idea?


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

*Electronics failure - can be repaired*

Hi,
Following a recent discussion on another thread, a fix has been found for the problem with the KESSY which is reporting the following faults in VCDS:

5 Faults Found:
00183 - Interior Access/Start Authorization Antenna 1 (R138)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00180 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Passenger Side (R135)
011 - Open Circuit
00179 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna; Drivers Side (R134)
011 - Open Circuit
00181 - Access/Start Authorization Antenna (in Rear bumper) (R136)
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00182 - Luggage Compartment Access/Start Authorization Antenna (R137)
011 - Open Circuit

The problem is apparently caused by failure of two transistors inside the KESSY, as it was discovered by Touareg enthusiasts which have the same KESSY installed in their cars. The MOSFETS which need replacement are of the conventional type and therefore can be easily replaced without special SMD soldering tools by people with good soldering techniques, like radio ham enthusiasts.
Anyone needing a cheap and easy fix, please see the thread Replace Keyless Access Module

Willem


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

*photos please?*

Michael, would you be able to rehost these photos? Or are they part of the many that were lost?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Yes - I have re-hosted all the photos that I posted on all 5 pages of this thread.


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

PanEuropean said:


> Yes - I have re-hosted all the photos that I posted on all 5 pages of this thread.


 Great, thats a big help. Thanks for spending the time, I appreciate it.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I must be blind- but the FAQ linked me here to see how to remove a door handle, and I don't see how.

I have the door panel all apart to troubleshoot a non working softclose which I think is either a bad microswitch or solder joint... but I can't get the latch assembly out because it is hung up on the door handle assembly somehow.

Thanks..:beer:


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Josh,

If we don't know something we would normally ask you - now my 'meaning of life itself' is in question!

I assume that the ElsaWin instructions are not clear... Do the Bentley Flying Spur instructions below give a better angle on removing a front door handle? Sometimes an English language description is easier than a translation from German.

They refer to a special tool to prime the mechanism on re-assembly, but I don't think this is referred to in the Phaeton instructions, which just have a warning that if you get re-assembly wrong then the door cannot be opened! 

Chris


*Flying Spur Instructions (not the VW version)*










This information is (c) Bentley Motors and is reproduced for private study only


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Good morning,

Unfortunately my copy of the Bentley Ebahn software does not support Windows 7 that my recent laptop has. It amazes me that they only support Win XP as that has been many many years.

I figured out how to get it apart. When I purchased my '06 W12, the drivers softclose feature does not work and there is some wind noise present that my '05 V8 does not have. So I tore everything apart yesterday to see what is going on.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I love seeing big photos of small parts, that is when someone else is going to do the re-assembly!

Chris


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

PowerDubs said:


> Unfortunately my copy of the Bentley Ebahn software does not support Windows 7 that my recent laptop has.


Hi Josh:

I do agree, it is a nuisance that the eBahn software used for the Bentley Publications Phaeton service manual (the North American service manual) does not run on Windows 7 or Windows 8.

When I was using Windows 7, I ran the eBahn software inside Windows XP emulation, a feature that was available with the 'Pro' versions of Windows 7. That worked surprisingly well.

When I moved to Windows 8, things became a little bit more complicated. I had to set up a 'virtual machine' to run the Windows XP operating system (within my Windows 8 environment), and then I loaded the service manual into that. It was considerably more of a PITA to set up this virtual machine on W8 than it was on W7.

Michael

*PS:* Just to avoid any confusion on the part of others who may be reading this, "Bentley Publications" is the company that has been providing North American owners with VW service manuals for at least 40 years. The name has nothing whatsoever to do with the Bentley automobile. In the rest of the world, these publications are provided by ErWin.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Josh:

Attached are some PDFs from the North American Phaeton service manual that might be of help to you when you are working with the door handle and door latching mechanism.

These are all for the rear door - I don't know if the front door is substantially different - if you need information for the front door, let me know.

Michael


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Thank you.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> When I was using Windows 7, I ran the eBahn software inside Windows XP emulation, a feature that was available with the 'Pro' versions of Windows 7. That worked surprisingly well.
> 
> When I moved to Windows 8, things became a little bit more complicated. I had to set up a 'virtual machine' to run the Windows XP operating system (within my Windows 8 environment), and then I loaded the service manual into that. It was considerably more of a PITA to set up this virtual machine on W8 than it was on W7.


Hi Michael,
I think you are referring to "Windows Virtual PC" or "Windows XP Mode", with which you can set an environment for XP programs when your laptop is running on Windows 7.
For those, who want to use XP mode on W7, it is recommended to check this link for hardware compatibility: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=592

Willem


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Yea- won't work on Win 7 home unfortunately.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

WillemBal said:


> I think you are referring to "Windows Virtual PC" or "Windows XP Mode", with which you can set an environment for XP programs when your laptop is running on Windows 7.


Hi Willem:

Yes, you are correct, that is a much more precise description of what I was doing when I used the Windows 7 operating system. As I mentioned earlier, I found it to be quite straightforward and not particularly complex to set up the 'Windows XP Mode' within the Windows 7 environment.

When I migrated to Windows 8 (uh, don't ask why I did that, but suffice to say I don't think I would do it all over again if I had the chance to reconsider), things became much more complex. I was able to create a Windows XP virtual machine using Hyper-V, but it was a very complex and tricky process, only possible because I happened to have a spare licence for a Windows XP initial installation (not an upgrade) on hand. Transferring even the most simple information (such as a PDF created in the XP virtual machine to the Windows 8 desktop) is cumbersome, I can't do that via the clipboard, I had to create yet another .vhd file and use it as a transfer medium.

I still don't understand why Bentley Publications has not updated the eBahn application so that it works natively within Windows 7. I suspect that they have deprecated this application, in support of a worldwide effort by VW to move folks over to the ErWin environment.

Michael


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi all,

After updating my system to win10 and having no luck to run XP, i found that you can just log in to Bentley publishers website and operate the service manual online just like on XP. So now as long as I have internet access, i can read service manual on any computer, laptop, mac, iphone etc.

Johnny


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## lauwerspeter (May 24, 2006)

Does anyone know how to test both the touch sensor for unlocking as well as the lock button on the comfort access door handle while it's out of the car? I have two door handles that need to be replaced and I bought two used comfort access door handles and I'd like to test whether the comfort access features work before I have the door torn apart to find out the new ones don't work either.

Thanks!


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## Johann_Phaeton (Jul 15, 2016)

*Test*


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## solar2004 (Oct 25, 2010)

*Oh dear*

My 2004 W12 is just back after many years off the road (2 years in Hanwell in London having a system cable = engine and interior out!) and then a year at Heritage Bristol because the ECU under the passenger seat gave up again, just after 4 years after they replaced the same thing with 2 of those with the car off the road! I picked the car up and neither rear door would open. After 1,000 miles bringing it to Prague, one door opens. The other not. I hope I dont have to go through all the stuff I see here on this thread.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

lauwerspeter said:


> Does anyone know how to test both the touch sensor for unlocking as well as the lock button on the comfort access door handle while it's out of the car? I have two door handles that need to be replaced and I bought two used comfort access door handles and I'd like to test whether the comfort access features work before I have the door torn apart to find out the new ones don't work either.
> 
> Thanks!


I am in the same situation. I did change to a new handle bought dirt cheap on Ebay and changed it a few years ago and did some tests on that. I remember that the switch function was not the on/off typ, I noticed a difference in ohm meassure between "on" and "off" but I can't remember the values. Now I have a used handle and want to verify that before tearing things apart but I am not shure it measures the same as the new one. So, same question again, does anyone how to test things out of the car?

Lennart


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Lennart,

There is no test information in the Elsa manual or (as far as I can see) online for any other car brand, so I think it's up to us to do some work... 

Your resistance tests sound interesting. Can you remember if the resistance varied with physical pressure on the button (rubber-conductive switch) or didn't vary much (phosphor-bronze spring contacts). There should be some MVB values visible in VCDS for these switches but I don't know the port numbers offhand.

I too have three non-functioning lock buttons on the car door handles. From a Google search, it seems that all manufacturers suffer from poor Keyless button lifetimes, two years being quoted in come cases. I guess pressure-washing, as done by dealers as a 'gratis' service, is probably one bad influence.

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> My 2004 W12 is just back after many years off the road (2 years in Hanwell in London having a system cable = engine and interior out!) and then a year at Heritage Bristol because the ECU under the passenger seat gave up again, just after 4 years after they replaced the same thing with 2 of those with the car off the road! I picked the car up and neither rear door would open. After 1,000 miles bringing it to Prague, one door opens. The other not. I hope I dont have to go through all the stuff I see here on this thread.


Good grief, you probably win the "Most Patient Owner" award! 

Although there are perhaps one or two other folks with long-drawn stories to tell. I hope the car now gives the joy it's capable of...

Door lock solenoid mechanisms for all car brands seem to be one area where value engineers rule. I have replaced 4 units on various car models in the last few years, with another three waiting to be attended to, including one rear door on the P. Some months it works, other times it gives an implausible signal error. It's the same with one on the Audi A3.

Wasn't it the original 1959 Mini that simply had a bit of string to pull to open the door, like the request stop bell-pull cable on an old London Transport bus? But even then, I expect the string broke! 

Chris


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Paximus said:


> Hi Lennart,
> 
> There is no test information in the Elsa manual or (as far as I can see) online for any other car brand, so I think it's up to us to do some work...
> 
> ...


Hi Chris,
The resistance ”flipped” between two values when pressed and releases. I don’t remember it as gradually changing with pressure or distance to button. The documentation is not very clear, SSP says that ”... button initiates an inductive request...” I may be missing some translation here besides the ”electrical meaning” as I really don’t see how it works. I will look into the VCDS readings and see if I can get some useful info that way. I think I have three different symptoms to compare so I should see some differences between them.
The symbol for the switch is as far as I can see just a plain switch but I don’t think that is the whole truth.


















Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

I think it is the pcb inside the doorhandle, not the switch. I bought replacement switches and it seems to be contact switched. Also when removing the switch out of th handle it disconnects from a board inside the handle.
No acces to that board without ruin the handle . I think a electric trace breaks on the pcb after years of tearing on the doorhandle or hot/cold conditions.

Jorg

Verstuurd vanaf mijn HTC One M9 met Tapatalk


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I have a little more information. The door handle push-button and door handle pull-switch status are in MVBs 178 through 181 in the KESSY at address 05. I can't trace all of them since mine are broken and don't respond. These ones are OK on my car:

MVB 179 GROUP 03 = Left Front Door Handle Pulled 0=NO 1=YES
MVB 179 GROUP 04 = Left Front Door Button Pushed 0=NO 1=YES
MVB 180 GROUP 03 = Left Rear Door Handle Pulled 0=NO 1=YES
MVB 181 GROUP 03 = Right Rear Door Handle Pulled 0=NO 1=YES

These entries are not in the label file. Perhaps if anyone with fully working Keyless Entry happens to be using VCDS, they might like to fill in the blanks. For fault-finding purposes there are another set of MVBs which _are_ shown in the label file, which show the state of the 'repeated activity' safeguarding software counters which turns off the handle detection for half an hour when, for example, kids play with the door handles or a nearby tree branch repeatedly triggers the proximity sensors. This is to help the car sleep and not drain the battery. The label file is not very helpful in explaining the action of these counters, but they could be relevant if someone is checking out what they think is a fault but turns out to be a feature.


It may be that the subsystem was built by Hella (lots of VW components are made by them). Hella show these typical examples of smart door handles and their PCBs:

*Example door handle PCB (not necessarily Phaeton) showing the capacitive 
sensor and also the RFID antenna that powers and then detects the key fob chip*








image (c) Hella

*Another example PCB from a rear door, where they don't fit the RFID component (relying on the front handle)*








image (c) Hella

*As above but for a front handle, with the RFID antenna*








image (c) Hella

Chris


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Jorgsphaeton said:


> I think it is the pcb inside the doorhandle, not the switch. I bought replacement switches and it seems to be contact switched. Also when removing the switch out of th handle it disconnects from a board inside the handle.
> No acces to that board without ruin the handle . I think a electric trace breaks on the pcb after years of tearing on the doorhandle or hot/cold conditions.
> 
> Jorg
> ...


Hi Jorg,
I had a demolition session and found the soldering area under the switch quite corroded and detached from the circuit board. Looks like humidity finds its way inside in some way. At first I thought the switch was of the conductive type but it is actually an ordinary or should I say a bit over complicated switch with a gold plated buckeling plate that does the connection work.









The parts









Before tearing apart









The corrosion

I thought about trying to seal the rubber part better but it may just cause humidity to get trapped anyway. I think the only thing that can be done is to be a bit careful with the washer around the handles.

Anyway, I don’t see any way to test a handle the passive way before connecting it to the harness.

Lennart





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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Paximus said:


> I have a little more information. The door handle push-button and door handle pull-switch status are in MVBs 178 through 181 in the KESSY at address 05. I can't trace all of them since mine are broken and don't respond. These ones are OK on my car:
> 
> MVB 179 GROUP 03 = Left Front Door Handle Pulled 0=NO 1=YES
> MVB 179 GROUP 04 = Left Front Door Button Pushed 0=NO 1=YES
> ...


Hi Chris,
That were some good images of the handle construction! After tearing a Phaeton handle apart there is no way to identify more than the bigger parts due to the potting.
As there is no practical way to test a handle before connecting it in a passive way, at least as far as I can see, I will try to measure the pins in situ on a working handle and see if it is possible to apply the right signals to the right pins on a loose handle and test it that way. As long as it is not PWM or similar it may be doable. I would really like to avoid tearing the doors apart just to find the handle not working.

Lennart


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

It seems that some of the door handle and lock component are made by the German company Huf, founded in 1908, who supply door locks worldwide for many vehicle manufacturers including Ford, BMW, Toyota and, of course, VAG.

The good news is that they supply spare product for up to 15 years after the last vehicle rolled off the line. The bad news is that new Phaeton keyless entry handles are listed around €430 each discounted, and Huf won't supply individuals, only dealers or manufacturers. 

A set of four of these costs more than the last two fun cars I bought added together... :what:

Chris


*Phaeton door handle casting*









*An example Huf keyless door handle PCB*


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