# Slow Refueling Problem



## intaminfan628 (May 30, 2008)

I'm having issues filling up my gas tank; I can't pump gas at full speed, not even at the slower setting that you can set the pump to. It just clicks off like it's full. When i pull the gas pump out i can see some gas has collected and it takes time to drain down the pipe. In order to fill the tank I have to hold the pump so it pumps slowly. It seems to be worse during hot weather; and the severity of it varies. Any ideas? 

Happy Holidays


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## CFOOSE1 (Oct 21, 2012)

*slow gasser*

Hi 
I'd look down the filler neck with a strong flash light, no matches:facepalm: see if you have any restrictions,I drive the same car and haven't had any issues. I think there's a kind of reserve in or near the neck..... Jeremy


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

I have the same issue and have not figured it out yet. It could be a saturated charcoal canister or a plugged line/valve that leads to it. 

Damon


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Below is a picture of a Phaeton fuel tank, showing the expansion chamber. There is a vent line that appears to run from the expansion chamber to the fuel filler neck, but I don't think a problem with that vent line would cause slow filling of the main tanks.

Best suggestion I can offer is to get a borescope and have a look all the way down the fuel filler neck - to the point where the refuelling neck enters the main tank - and see if there is some kind of obstruction in that filler neck.

It might also be possible for you to inspect the fuel filler neck (from the outside) if you take a look in the right battery compartment. I can't recall whether the filler neck tube is exposed within that compartment (I am not near where my Phaeton is), but you might want to check to ensure that the filler neck has not been crushed or kinked within the fender area.

A 'last course of action' might be to remove the floor from the trunk compartment, and then remove the electric fuel pump on the right hand side of the vehicle - that would give you access to the distal end of the fuel filler neck.

Michael

*Phaeton Fuel Tank Cutaway*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

A related discussion that _might _contain useful information - fuel tank filler damaged; CEL light on.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Below is an illustration from the parts catalog that shows the various components in the Phaeton fuel tank.

It's not always wise to rely on VW parts catalog illustrations for diagnostic purposes, because these illustrations are drawn for the purpose of identifying the different parts, rather than precisely illustrating how the system functions. But, in this particular case, the illustration kind of supports my earlier comment that the expansion tank (near the top of the filler neck) is very much a 'stand-alone' component, and likely is not the cause of your slow fill problem.

*Phaeton Fuel Tank - Parts Illustration*









below is another photo showing what it looks like inside the fuel tank. Note that there is a rather complicated diverter duct within the tank, this causes the fuel coming down the filler neck to make a 90 degree turn. I suppose it is possible that if something is blocking that diverter assembly, it could be causing a slow fill. But, I would first investigate the filler neck tube for kinks, bends, or blockages within the tube.

Michael

*Close-up of Fuel Tank where fuel enters from filler neck*


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## CFOOSE1 (Oct 21, 2012)

*filler blockage*

I bet you could get a scope from a big box store, about $100. and drop it down the filler. could come in handy for other projects too. intake manifold, for instance......?


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## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

I've had this issue on various car's, but it seemed to be somewhat isolated to a particular gas station. I've also had it happen other times, but always when I took the car close to E. I've been a regular at one station for the past year with 3 different car's. Never had an issue. 

When I lived in TX, much more humid, I had this issue a lot more. Maybe try different filling stations, or filling at the half way mark just to check.

Aaron


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## intaminfan628 (May 30, 2008)

It's happened at when filling from E, halfway, etc and at different gas stations, so I'm pretty sure it's the car not anything to do with gas station/pump. I'll have to find a scope or something to peak down the tube in the near future, it also has to go in for service so might ask them to investigate a bit.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

I second that. My issue is not isolated to a particular gas station either. 

Damon.


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## Terry F. (Feb 12, 2009)

I've had this problem on occasion. On my car, it is most likely to happen if my tank is very empty. Because of this, I try to always fill up before any warning lights appear. 

After about 5 minutes of click-click-click on the pump, something happens and then the car wil accept fuel normally. This has happened at different service stations, btw. This is *very* frustrating when it happens, I can relate to the aggravation. 
Terry


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## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

How humid is it in CA? I know Florida should be pretty humid. Since I was having the problem in TX, which is very humid at times, I wonder if that is a factor. I'm not sure exactly how the fill-up stop works at the pumps, but I would imagine it has something to do with atmospheric pressure inside the filler neck. 

Aaron


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

In my shop we've seen more than one case of a spider 'nest' (egg sac?) in the fuel filler vent tube, although not in a Phaeton. This was enough to greatly slow down the intake of fuel and cause the pump to shut off.


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## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

I found this while searching on how the auto-shut off works.

http://ask.metafilter.com/17961/Why-do-gas-pumps-shut-off-midfill

Some of it makes a little sense. But looking at how it works, there's a small hole in the tip of filler nozzle that has vacuum applied to it. Once the vacuum is increased by the fuel level reaching the hole, it triggers the shut-off. So a change in vacuum levels, or maybe a preset vacuum value. So if it's more humid, it could cause a higher vacuum level. In that thread they also talk about the gas foaming or bubbling back up the tube and hitting that vacuum hole. But, if your EVAP was clogged somewhere, it seems that might have an effect on the vacuum levels in the tank as well. 

I guess it could really be a multitude of things. I'm so un-helpful :facepalm:

Aaron


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## glacken (Oct 21, 2009)

I often have this situation especially when the tank is close to empty.
My solution is :-
I just turn the nozzle of the fuel pump 180 * (the bar to pump the fuel is on top rather than on the bottom of the nozzle) and the fuel just goes in without any of the annoying stops.
Simples.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Mine did this for about a year after I bought it. It's definitely something that's Phaeton-specific, it's not like the usual auto-shutoff difficulties on some pumps/cars. Occasionally, on removal of the filler cap, there'd be a hiss and you could feel air being forced out of the tank, trying to fill it while this was happening resulted in the pump shutting off. Once the hissing stopped, it'd be fine. It used to happen fairly regularly, but hasn't happened for a couple of years now, empty or not.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Last week I took the 4-seater to the Costco gas station for the first time and sure enough I ran into the same issue as the original poster. The pump just keeps clicking off after 3 seconds at the most with the tank only 1/4 full. I tried various positions for the nozzle but still a no go. 

Today I stopped at my regular gas station but used a different pump than usual and again the fuel pump just kept clicking off, barely got 3 gallons into the tank before I gave up. The other two pumps that I typically use at that station don't give me a problem. This is getting pretty annoying lately and it looks like there hasn't been a consensus on what causes this issue?!

Btw, sometimes my 5-seater is having the same issue.


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

I've had this same problem, but only at certain pumps. I figure it must have something to do with the sensitivity of the pump nozzle's pollution control system to prevent liquid or vapor emissions. Fortunately, one of my local gas station's pumps ("76" brand) work well with the Phaeton. I avoid the others.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

imon_2nd said:


> I've had this same problem, but only at certain pumps. I figure it must have something to do with the sensitivity of the pump nozzle's pollution control system to prevent liquid or vapor emissions. Fortunately, one of my local gas station's pumps ("76" brand) work well with the Phaeton. I avoid the others.


That's a different problem. I'd rate my Phaeton as generally more sensitive than other cars when it comes to the pump shutting off, but there's a separate issue that occurs which makes it all but impossible to fill the tank, regardless of the pump you use. As I said earlier, mine went through a period of doing it pretty much all the time shortly after I got the car, sometimes accompanied by an out-rush of air when removing the filler cap. After a while it just stopped doing it and hasn't done it since, but now I have the sticky fuel gauge problem, I don't know if the two are related.


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## evmaddy (Dec 18, 2014)

My car was exhibiting the same "click off" symptoms as posted. I found that by positioning the pump handle to the 9 o'clock position cured the problem. Now I can pump to full without the premature clicking off. Not sure why this works, but it does for me.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

evmaddy said:


> My car was exhibiting the same "click off" symptoms as posted. I found that by positioning the pump handle to the 9 o'clock position cured the problem.


I tried that the last time but it didn't work in any position, not even in the 12 o'clock position. Very frustrating at times.


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## Terry F. (Feb 12, 2009)

My car had this behavior again today. It is most likely to happen when my tank is empty. Today, the refuel warning was lit. Took forever to get going properly. The car took 20.17 gal, the last 15 gal pumped normally. < shoulder shrug >

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G928A using Tapatalk


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

I've had this same problem intermittently sine I bought this car about 3 years ago. I refuel at the same gas station almost always, and I've figured out a trick. If you just pull the nozzle out about 1/2'' or 3/4'', and list the handle of the pump as high as you can. It's worked for me every time!!!

-John


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

phaetonjohn said:


> I've had this same problem intermittently sine I bought this car about 3 years ago. I refuel at the same gas station almost always, and I've figured out a trick. If you just pull the nozzle out about 1/2'' or 3/4'', and list the handle of the pump as high as you can. It's worked for me every time!!!
> 
> -John


At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this is not the problem some of us are reporting. Lots of cars have this issue with the fuel being delivered too quickly for the neck of the tank which can often be fixed by pulling the nozzle out a bit or some other minor manipulation. Read Terry's post, there's something odd going on when the tank is really low, what he describes is exactly what mine used to do.


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Oh, okay... I guess that I should look a little closer then! I've never had that problem as far as I can remember, but then again I have only had the low fuel warning come on once or twice in these 3 years. I normally refuel before it gets below 1/4 tank.

-John


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## lelievre12 (Nov 25, 2015)

+1. My Phaeton is slow to fill too. Today was the first day I totally gave up. Any orientation of the pump hose and it didnt work.

I read that some cars have an anti back fill "flapper' valve but I don't know if this is applies to Phaeton. I'm not sure how to check this but I imagine its at the bottom of the filler hose where is connects to the tank?

The only other option is to change the expansion tank but not sure if this will help.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

lelievre12 said:


> +1. My Phaeton is slow to fill too. Today was the first day I totally gave up. Any orientation of the pump hose and it didnt work.
> 
> I read that some cars have an anti back fill "flapper' valve but I don't know if this is applies to Phaeton. I'm not sure how to check this but I imagine its at the bottom of the filler hose where is connects to the tank?
> 
> The only other option is to change the expansion tank but not sure if this will help.


Did you try filling up at a different gas station?


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## Richard Budd (Mar 14, 2021)

intaminfan628 said:


> I'm having issues filling up my gas tank; I can't pump gas at full speed, not even at the slower setting that you can set the pump to. It just clicks off like it's full. When i pull the gas pump out i can see some gas has collected and it takes time to drain down the pipe. In order to fill the tank I have to hold the pump so it pumps slowly. It seems to be worse during hot weather; and the severity of it varies. Any ideas?
> 
> Happy Holidays


I have a Volkswagen Turan 2009 1.9 diesel and have had the same issue I took it to my garage whereupon we tried to find the breather pipe going into the tank after looking for it we found it is in the neck of the fuel filler so with a compressed air line and gun we blew down the tank breather line on the number of occasions we had this gargling sound and all of a sudden we had this clicking sound where the air was coming out and we found that that was a sticky breather tank valve which is now working correctly so I took it to the garage and filled up and it solve the problem you need to feel the pipe going into the breather to fee the clicking sound this is now solved the issue hope you find this useful regards


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Richard Budd said:


> I have a Volkswagen Turan 2009 1.9 diesel and have had the same issue I took it to my garage whereupon we tried to find the breather pipe going into the tank after looking for it we found it is in the neck of the fuel filler so with a compressed air line and gun we blew down the tank breather line on the number of occasions we had this gargling sound and all of a sudden we had this clicking sound where the air was coming out and we found that that was a sticky breather tank valve which is now working correctly so I took it to the garage and filled up and it solve the problem you need to feel the pipe going into the breather to fee the clicking sound this is now solved the issue hope you find this useful regards


Maybe I should try cleaning the breather pipe on my Ford. I couldn't even put the pump in the lowest automatic setting the other day without it spurting fuel. I filled up because I was running on fumes. I had to fill it by pressing the nozzle the bare minimum for fuel flow.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Richard Budd said:


> I have a Volkswagen Turan 2009 1.9 diesel and have had the same issue I took it to my garage whereupon we tried to find the breather pipe going into the tank after looking for it we found it is in the neck of the fuel filler so with a compressed air line and gun we blew down the tank breather line on the number of occasions we had this gargling sound and all of a sudden we had this clicking sound where the air was coming out and we found that that was a sticky breather tank valve which is now working correctly so I took it to the garage and filled up and it solve the problem you need to feel the pipe going into the breather to fee the clicking sound this is now solved the issue hope you find this useful regards


Aha! Finally a useful addition to this thread! This sounds as if it fits the symptoms exactly. Having said that, mine did finally become unstuck and hasn't done it for several years. When the problem occurs, you can sometimes hear it resolve because of the rushing air coming out.


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