# Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

I was going to post this a while back, but forgot. These bits came up in a recent thread and reminded me to post this info.









If you need triple square bits (like Torx bits but with 12 points instead of 6 - also called serrated or 12-point bits) in order to remove things like a flywheel or axle bolts, you can buy K-D bits from your local Napa Auto Parts store (can also buy them on-line).
The Napa part numbers are as follows:
*8mm - SER2304 - $4.99
10mm - SER2305 - $5.49
12mm - SER2306 - $5.99*
AFAIK, there is no 6mm bit available (part number SER2303, which is the logical part number in the sequence, does not exist).

Whatever you do, do NOT buy the Lisle set of triple square bits that PepBoys sells ($15 for 6, 8, 10 and 12mm). I made the mistake of purchasing this set in order to remove and reinstall my flywheel and axle bolts during a recent timing chain adventure. The teeth on 10mm bit from this set were deformed so badly after torquing just 3 of 10 flywheel bolts that it was completely unusable. I ended up taking the whole set back to PepBoys and demanding my money back. The Napa bit (SER2305) was used to torque the remaining 7 flywheel bolts and all of the axle bolts (they're 10mm on the MKIV cars) and it looked like it had barely been used afterwards.

Gary


_Modified by VgRt6 at 7:08 AM 3-11-2005_


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## 5.0 eater (Dec 5, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*

Hey Gary, 
You can also get these bits from Snap-on and Hazet. The Hazet Ones are german and of the finest quality.
Jamie


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (5.0 eater)*

Of course there are other (and probably better) sources for the bits. I posted this mainly because Napa is close to many of us US Vortexers (do they have Napa in Canada?). The Napa bits are very cheap and are more than enough quality to stretch-torque flywheel bolts.
I'd love to have Snap-on bits, but not all of us make the big bucks up there in the Great White North. Eh.
I've never heard of Hazet tools. Where can you get them and how expensive are they?

Gary


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## 5.0 eater (Dec 5, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_Of course there are other (and probably better) sources for the bits. I posted this mainly because Napa is close to many of us US Vortexers (do they have Napa in Canada?). The Napa bits are very cheap and are more than enough quality to stretch-torque flywheel bolts.
I'd love to have Snap-on bits, but not all of us make the big bucks up there in the Great White North. Eh.
I've never heard of Hazet tools. Where can you get them and how expensive are they?

Gary

Just thought I'd mention the Snap-on bits for all of those Snap-On Addicts (the Hazets are actually better), Not to mention that almost everyone has access to a Snap-On Tools Truck. As for Hazet, Many of VW's specialty tools are made by Hazet. You can find Hazet at http://www.hazet-na.com I couldn't find the bits on the american site but they are called Internal serration or XZN bits. They are available in 3/8 or 1/2" drive short or long as well as just the bits themselves. 
























By the way we do have NAPA in Canada. 
As for the Big Bucks thing, it is there for anyone who wants to make the journey up North. Big time oportunity for anyone, especially for someone trained in one of the many engineering fields.
Jamie







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by 5.0 eater at 3:44 PM 1-25-2004_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (5.0 eater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5.0 eater* »_










I want a 10mm, 1/2" drive triple square socket like this! The Napa one works great, but since it's very long, and even longer when put inside a 1/2" socket, it's somewhat of a pain to keep the wrench straight when stretch-torquing bolts. A nice short socket that would fit directly ona torque or normal wrench would be perfect!
How much is one of these bad boys?

Gary


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## 5.0 eater (Dec 5, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*

Not sure on price. 
I can get them up here at Acklands Grainger or Century sales. I can price them if you want.
Jamie


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## ScubaVr6 (Sep 19, 2003)

I don't think hazet quality is superior. I have $40,000 in hand a pnuematic tools. Hazet is my only source for poly-drive (newer cyl head bolts) I break that tool every time I remove a head. I keep three on me at all times so that I can finish the job.


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## 5.0 eater (Dec 5, 2002)

*Re: (ScubaVr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ScubaVr6* »_I don't think hazet quality is superior. I have $40,000 in hand a pnuematic tools. Hazet is my only source for poly-drive (newer cyl head bolts) I break that tool every time I remove a head. I keep three on me at all times so that I can finish the job.

Hard to argue with a Mechanic but personally I find the Hazet stuff the best.
Thanks for the $0.2
Jamie


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## ScubaVr6 (Sep 19, 2003)

Hazet makes some sick specialty tools that save me a lot of time, but if that specialty tool was duplicated by snap-on, mac, or matco, then I'd go with them.


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## yellowslc (Aug 29, 2000)

snap on... why? they are the only ones that make a long pattern 8mm triple square.. makes life easy when doing cv joints.. 
R


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## splitmeister (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: (ScubaVr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ScubaVr6* »_I don't think hazet quality is superior. I have $40,000 in hand a pnuematic tools. Hazet is my only source for poly-drive (newer cyl head bolts) I break that tool every time I remove a head. I keep three on me at all times so that I can finish the job.

Really? never had a problem with the same one, used multiple times.
But honestly for me when it comes to specialty tools like this, snap-on or hazet. Dicking around with something else is a waste of time.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (yellowslc)*

i got mine at pep boys for like 10$. included like 4mm 6mm 8mm 10mm and 12mm.
its also long pattern. each "one" is like 4 inches long.


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*

I had loaned my Snap-ons to a freind when I needed one bad ,to pull a head. Went To Auto Zone @7pm on a sunday ,and low and behold they had a set of 6-12mm triples for 14.99. Kinda a pain to use as you need to use a 1/2" socket to drive them,but they worked. Twisted the bit a little torqueing it back down,but "lifetime warr",so picked up a new set on the next trip,good for trips/junkyarding,rather loose a cheapo than a 20+$ snap-on. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 6cylVWguy (Jun 14, 2000)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_
Whatever you do, do NOT buy the Lisle set of triple square bits that PepBoys sells ($15 for 6,8,10 and 12mm). I made the mistake of purchasing this set in order to remove and reinstall my flywheel and axle bolts during a recent timing chain adventure. The teeth on 10mm bit from this set were deformed so badly after torquing just 3 of 10 flywheel bolts that it was completely unusable. I ended up taking the whole set back to PepBoys and demanding my money back. The Napa bit (K-D 2305) was used to torque the remaining 7 flywheel bolts and all of the axle bolts (they're 10mm on the MKIV cars) and it looked like it had barely been used afterwards. 

I'm going to have to flat out disagree with this set of statements. I used the PepBoys Lisle triple square bits to replace an axle on my jetta. They are a tight fit, but after lightly tapping them into the bolt, they worked GREAT. Maybe yours were defective or used improperly, but I would definitely recommend them to someone looking to buy this type of tool. Maybe if I was a mechanic and used them alot would I invest the cash in a very expensive set of these.


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## splitmeister (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (6cylVWguy)*

i tried using a lisle triple square to remove axles. it stripped on the first bolt. Mighty crappy.


_Modified by splitmeister at 10:03 PM 1-26-2004_


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (splitmeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitmeister* »_i tried using a lisle triple square to remove axles. it stripped on the first bolt. Mighty crappy.

_Modified by splitmeister at 10:03 PM 1-26-2004_

Hmm. Worked fine for me to get the stock headbolts out, with no obvious deformations.


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## 6cylVWguy (Jun 14, 2000)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (splitmeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitmeister* »_i tried using a lisle triple square to remove axles. it stripped on the first bolt. Mighty crappy.

Did you just put them into the bolt by hand and start loosening? I found that before I used a small hammer to tap the bits into the bolt, they started to strip a little. After I drove them in far enough everything was awsome. I think the Lisle bits are a little larger than they state, like 10.2mm instead of exactly 10mm.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (6cylVWguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *6cylVWguy* »_
I'm going to have to flat out disagree with this set of statements. I used the PepBoys Lisle triple square bits to replace an axle on my jetta. They are a tight fit, but after lightly tapping them into the bolt, they worked GREAT. Maybe yours were defective or used improperly, but I would definitely recommend them to someone looking to buy this type of tool. Maybe if I was a mechanic and used them alot would I invest the cash in a very expensive set of these. 


If the harshest service the tool will see is torquing a few bolts to 50-75 ft-lbs, then I have to agree with you. The Lisle set is good enough for this. On the other hand, if the tool is going to be used for any work that requires very high torques and/or stretching bolts, like during head or flywheel installations, then the Lisle tool can't handle it. Torquing 3 flywheel bolts to 44 ft-lbs +1/4 turn absolutely destroyed the bit. Luckily I had another car to drive to Napa to get the K-D bit or I would have been up the creek.
FYI, the Napa bit is also a long bit, ~3-4" in length, so it's good for CV joint work.


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*

Sorry to say this, but I use almost nothing but snap-on and some matco and craftsman tools in my tool box at work. Yes, they are expensive but having a life time guarantee and the best r&d to a product is always nice to have. By a cheaper product one day causing you to strip a bolt or something like that, and you'll be sry that you didnt go with a better product. Its happend to me on several occasions.


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## splitmeister (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (vr6chris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6chris* »_Sorry to say this, but I use almost nothing but snap-on and some matco and craftsman tools in my tool box at work. Yes, they are expensive but having a life time guarantee and the best r&d to a product is always nice to have. By a cheaper product one day causing you to strip a bolt or something like that, and you'll be sry that you didnt go with a better product. Its happend to me on several occasions.

exactly.
If you use a tool, and due to its poor design, you strip a bolt, was it worth it? If you spend more on tools, they not only last longer, but they do the intended job correctly the first time, so you dont wind up wasting time trying to removed damaged bolts.
I used the lisle tool correctly, to loosen an axle bolt (which yes, sometimes can be difficult, especially if theyve been on forever) and it just flattened all the teeth on the tool. This was using it by hand. 
On the other hand, i've used the snap-ons bits ive had hundreds of times, with and without air. I've broken one over a period of using them close to 5 years now. 
You get what you pay for, and id rather pay a little more now than the hassle of the chisel later.


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## alchu (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (splitmeister)*

I just noticed that metalnerd sells triple square bits as well. I bought their rear brake tool and found it to be of great quality. No clue about these bits though... anyone heard of Kraftwerks?
http://shop.metalnerd.com/index.cgi?code=3&cat=5


_Modified by alchu at 2:15 PM 2-9-2005_


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## porn8069 (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: (yellowslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yellowslc* »_snap on... why? they are the only ones that make a long pattern 8mm triple square.. makes life easy when doing cv joints.. 
R

how long is long? i got my SK set for 50 bucks, snap on would have been around 90...


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (porn8069)*

Sure, most if not all of us would love to have tool boxes full of only Snap-On grade tools, but for most people, that is not cost effective. There's no way I'm spending that kind of money for a few bolts. If I needed to use it everyday, then there would be no question that I'd buy the expensive tools.
The point of this post was not to claim that the Napa bits were the greatest. It was just a heads up that the Napa bits are actually pretty good quality bits at a great price - more than sufficient for the weekend do-it-yourselfer.
Gary


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## Soviet B3 (Dec 2, 2000)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Good point there VG. I actually bought my set at Autozone. They are also a nation wide parts store, and the set of 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, and 12mm was only 12 bucks. They were just the shanks though, and you would use a 1/2 socket amd ratchet to power them. Regardless, they have a lifetime warranty, and removed all my head bolts, and the flywheel bolts without a sweat. They seem to be good quality...and still look new. Anywho...I understand the need for high priced tools (i have thousands invested in my tools) when you use them daily...but for something like this, where they get used once or twice a year...I'll put my hard earned money elsewhere.


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

*Re: (Soviet B3)*

This thread deserves a bump.
Just because it helped me a LOT.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: (bhtooefr)*

Agree. This thread deserves a free bump for some great info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Tire_Marx (Mar 4, 2004)

*Re: (Soviet B3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Soviet B3* »_They were just the shanks though, and you would use a 1/2 socket amd ratchet to power them. 

those work fine for headbolts and flywheel bolts, but make me scream and throw tools across the garage when it comes time to do a cv joint


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## B3M3nkey (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_
Whatever you do, do NOT buy the Lisle set of triple square bits that PepBoys sells ($15 for 6, 8, 10 and 12mm). I made the mistake of purchasing this set in order to remove and reinstall my flywheel and axle bolts during a recent timing chain adventure. The teeth on 10mm bit from this set were deformed so badly after torquing just 3 of 10 flywheel bolts that it was completely unusable. I ended up taking the whole set back to PepBoys and demanding my money back. The Napa bit (SER2305) was used to torque the remaining 7 flywheel bolts and all of the axle bolts (they're 10mm on the MKIV cars) and it looked like it had barely been used afterwards.


x2
Years ago, (1995ish) my first introduction to Lisle was removing rotors from hubs on a Izuzu 14,000 lb straight truck. With a 6ft breaker they snapped like they were made of chalk, went to a auto parts store bought another, Snapped it again! Went to "ACE Hardware" (closest alternative) bought their brand bit. It's still in my tool box to-date. I have used Lisle on the removal of VR6 headbolts with same feeble results. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif My Tool Box is filled with Craftsman and Snap-on, but it is an "Ace" brand torx bit, and yes I do mean torx, that successfully removes the most stubborn "triplesquare" headbolt.








Lisle.....PFFFT, I put that set in my wifes toolbox.











_Modified by B3M3nkey at 8:51 AM 2-17-2007_


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## z33k (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (B3M3nkey)*

I bought the ASTRO Pneumatics triple-square bit set from SJ and they've held up for CV and head bolts. The SK set pictured in the post above looks pretty nice though! 








http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ap7805.html 


_Modified by z33k at 8:36 AM 2-16-2007_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (z33k)*

That's a pretty sweet set at a great price! How's the quality?


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: (porn8069)*


_Quote, originally posted by *porn8069* »_
how long is long? i got my SK set for 50 bucks, snap on would have been around 90...










I ran into this issue with CV boots where the boot was pushing off the big part of the socket and you could not square it up and torque it. I was thinking that one that is at least 2" to 3" would be good there.


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## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (z33k)*

Nice looking set. I just broke down and bought the Triple Squares from AutoZone -- 6, 8, 10, 12mm for a total of $16.
My reasoning:
1) Cheap but decent quality -- can easily buy another set w/o feeling robbed
2) Available at Autozone -- obviously prevalent anywhere in the US
3) I really don't want to have to open a charge account with any specailty tool company with their billion dollar tools








4) The correct tool for the job that others have used -- I tried pulling a head from the junkyard last week with the WRONG tools ... and let's just say ... I had to leave the head







stripped the tool (torx head) on the last bolt (stripped the bolt too)









_Quote, originally posted by *z33k* »_I bought the ASTRO Pneumatics triple-square bit set from SJ and they've held up for CV and head bolts. The SK set pictured in the post above looks pretty nice though! 








http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ap7805.html 

_Modified by z33k at 8:36 AM 2-16-2007_


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## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*

FWIW, I found that removing the ABA _requires_ something longer than this to reach the bolt head and remain in the ratchet.

_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_

I want a 10mm, 1/2" drive triple square socket like this! The Napa one works great, but since it's very long, and even longer when put inside a 1/2" socket, it's somewhat of a pain to keep the wrench straight when stretch-torquing bolts. A nice short socket that would fit directly ona torque or normal wrench would be perfect!
How much is one of these bad boys?

Gary


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## jamesn67 (Nov 15, 2001)

*Re: (porn8069)*


_Quote, originally posted by *porn8069* »_
how long is long? i got my SK set for 50 bucks, snap on would have been around 90...










I bought these and the 8mm stripped doing my axles. 
Switched to a Snap-on and haven't had another problem since.


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## stt (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*

For a source of high quality XZN bits (or other tools for that matter) take a look at Elora, German tool manufacturer, pricing is certainly better than Snap-On:
http://www.bloomertool.com/XZNbits.html

Simeon T


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## z33k (Feb 18, 2001)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_quality?

I had doubts when I got the kit, but I haven't had any issues yet. I've removed several sets of CV joints and three sets of ABA head bolts.

_Quote, originally posted by *papichulo7* »_the ABA requires something longer than this to reach the bolt head and remain in the ratchet.

No issues for me.
My problem with the Autozone set- they have to be used inside a 13m deep socket. I found myself taping the 8m in with electrical tape every time I needed to use it... was a PITA!

Isaac
ps- Simeon:
Were you in Advance Auto Parts looking for these over the weekend? I'm the one who sent you to Autozone for these and to Van's for the Redline trans fluid.


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (z33k)*

I purchased my Lisle bits @ BUMPER-TO-BUMPER. I've had them for over 3 years. I've removed headbolts, torqued MAIN BEARINGS, taken out countless axles, completely taken apart and rebuilt VR's that require trippl squares(including flywheels) and never ONCE had a problem. I have gone in crocked, but never strippeda bolt, stripped a bit, nothing. I think it all depends on the quality of work you do. I am not trying to say anyone here is a bad mechanic, but if you are going to take shortscuts when putting in a tripple square bit(or whatever you choose to call them), you should just fork over the extra cash for SNAPON, on some other high quality part. Shortcuts cost time and money. So is it really a shortcut?


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## jamesn67 (Nov 15, 2001)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (fatfreevw)*

Just curious as to what shortcuts could be taken that would lead to
bit damage? I mean really the only thing you can do is to make
sure the bolt heads are clean. Which I know I did, several times
using various methods and the SK's still stripped.


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (jamesn67)*

actually now that I think about it, the strength of the impact can certainly make a difference. I have an snap-on 18v electric impact that only puts about 150-200 fl lbs, so maybe that is why they never stripped. If i had a honking 650-900 flt beast, i bet it would strip most the bolts and bits i have


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (fatfreevw)*

I wish I had taken a pic of the damage on my 10mm Lisle bit from stretching the flywheel bolts. The bit was fully inserted. The bolts were new. The heat treatment or elemental composition of the bit was clearly not right. The splines on it were so badly deformed, it looked like I cut 5-6mm off of the end of the bit and then glued it back on with the splines rotated 15°.







This damage was done stretching three flywheel bolts 90° using a 2.5' breaker bar. Nothing fancy, just brute, constant force.


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## papichulo7 (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (z33k)*

Yes, very good point. It is a pain that the Autozone one requires a socket. I figured that's the price I pay for being cheap. Used them this past weekend to snag another OBD1 German ABA head.









_Quote, originally posted by *z33k* »_
No issues for me.
My problem with the Autozone set- they have to be used inside a 13m deep socket. I found myself taping the 8m in with electrical tape every time I needed to use it... was a PITA!


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## stt (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (z33k)*

Re: ps
Not me, I haven't been in need of an XZN for quite a while. I am thinking of replacing the driver side window regulator clips and was reviewing the procedure last night, when I decided to post the Elora link. Come to think of it the last time I used an XZN bit was when I did the passenger door clips.
Simeon T.


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## wunderman4 (Apr 27, 2006)

what would be needed to take a automatic tranny off a 2001 1.8t? 
I think it would be a 8 or 10 mm hex, but I live in phoenix and I'm having the hardest time finding the damn triple squares. 
I'm most likely going to drive to NAPA to see if I can find it.


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## kevwithoutacorrado (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: (wunderman4)*

FWIW: 
I bought the cheapo set of 4 or 5 from autozone that is just the 1/2 inch hex shaft.
I've done head (off and torqued back on) axles more than once, flywheel, etc.. and never had a problem. for $15, they work.
I used the with my IR impact on the axles too.
The trick with ANY tool like these or allens is to make sure it's ALL THE WAY IN!
Especially on the axles, tap it in place. the oil and dirt will not let it go in deep enough and you WILL strip something.
Someone that uses them everyday will always need the best quality possible though...so these might no be the ones for you then.


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## TheBox (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (kevwithoutacorrado)*

SNAP-ON


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (kevwithoutacorrado)*

What brand are the AutoZone bits?


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## lil_squeeker (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

i just broke the lilse 6mm bit while tearing down a trans. barely even put any pressure on it ( probably less than 25ft lbs) and it just twisted the end right off. and it had nothing to do with quality of work. i cleaned all fluid out of the bolt head before hand and made sure the tool was fully seated. 
i have used them for head bolts and axles on numerous occassions, but they really look like crap after using them a few times. not to mention they always fall out of the socket at the worst time.
they are good for some things.....but i wont depend on them anymore.



_Modified by ledvolksllin at 12:41 AM 5-1-2007_


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## MTVW (Dec 28, 2001)

*Re: (ledvolksllin)*

The Autozone bits are CRAP
I went through 2 sets, and just went out and bought the one at NAPA. I hope it works better.
I'm just re-attaching my axles..
Bump from the Dead


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## 708VR6 (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*

I bought the Metalnerd ones, great quality, bought them from PAP-Parts.com http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## kevwithoutacorrado (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: (MTVW)*

I've worked with guys that are 'mechanically inclined' that just never understood the concept of fully seating an allen, torx triple square, philips, etc...
If it's not fully seated, they WILL strip the tool or the fastener.
So now, I've done 4 head gaskets, 2 flywheels, and 3 sets of axles (different cars) on my same auto zone set. Don't remember the brand.


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## MTVW (Dec 28, 2001)

*Re: (kevwithoutacorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevwithoutacorrado* »_I've worked with guys that are 'mechanically inclined' that just never understood the concept of fully seating an allen, torx triple square, philips, etc...
If it's not fully seated, they WILL strip the tool or the fastener.
So now, I've done 4 head gaskets, 2 flywheels, and 3 sets of axles (different cars) on my same auto zone set. Don't remember the brand.


Whatever. I fully understand the concept of properly seating said tools, and used a hammer prior to turning. The ones I got were crap. The NAPA one works 200 times better. I guess if we all had your superior skills we would all be better off though not just mechanically inclined....and able to use the Autozone brand. Everyone..lets all be like Kev...life will be so much better


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## James 93SLC (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_I wish I had taken a pic of the damage on my 10mm Lisle bit from stretching the flywheel bolts. The bit was fully inserted. The bolts were new.

The flywheel bolts are also not very deep at all. They are almost a button head design that doesn't engage much of the bit.
I nice deep socket head bolt might be a different matter with the Lisle's.
Good times, eh Gary


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (James 93SLC)*

Good times? Cursing those Lisle bits is still fresh in my mind. That and Eric complaining about everything else.


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## RobNC (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: Local Source for good quality triple square*

For the 14mm (needed to remove caliper carrier on MkV), is there a local source for these? I.e., Sears, AutoZone, NAPA, Advance, Pep Boys, etc.?
Why did I buy a VW again? Oh yeah so I could get the dealer to do all my work.


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## RobNC (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: Local Source for good quality triple square*

Found this from google tab while googling.
http://www.autodax.com/catalog...id=44








XZN Triple-Square or Multi-Spine 8 Piece Driver Set
by VIM Tools
Lifetime Warranty; Includes Case
8 Pieces, sizes: 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 8mm, 10mm 12mm, 14mm, 16mm.
3/8" Square Drive
S2 alloy steel, R/C
56-62 the strongest, hardest drivers available
Short, compact 1 piece design
Satin Chrome with Impact Tip
Price: $28.97
Most items ship for only $5.95 per order (within the Continental USA)
I don't work for them or get anything from this, just trying to add to the available shared knowledge. 



_Modified by RobNC at 4:08 PM 9-1-2007_


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## Benny The Jetta (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: Local Source for good quality triple square (RobNC)*

im in need of an 8mm to get my trans out (axles)
can somebody link me to it on NAPA's site? i couldnt find it on there.


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## SportyB5 (Jun 4, 2005)

*Re: Local Source for good quality triple square (RobNC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RobNC* »_Found this from google tab while googling.
http://www.autodax.com/catalog...id=44








XZN Triple-Square or Multi-Spine 8 Piece Driver Set
by VIM Tools
Lifetime Warranty; Includes Case
8 Pieces, sizes: 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 8mm, 10mm 12mm, 14mm, 16mm.
3/8" Square Drive
S2 alloy steel, R/C
56-62 the strongest, hardest drivers available
Short, compact 1 piece design
Satin Chrome with Impact Tip
Price: $28.97
Most items ship for only $5.95 per order (within the Continental USA)
I don't work for them or get anything from this, just trying to add to the available shared knowledge. 
_Modified by RobNC at 4:08 PM 9-1-2007_

I have that set and it's served me well so far. Bought them from the Cornwell guy. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RobNC (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: Local Source for good quality triple square (SportyB5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SportyB5* »_
I have that set and it's served me well so far. Bought them from the Cornwell guy. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Definitely ThumbsUp on that one. The tools are made in Taiwan, not China, so the quality is definitely there. None of this Harbor Freight crap with those tools!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Local Source for good quality triple square (RobNC)*

Amazon has is even cheaper ($23.18 - http://www.amazon.com/Vim-Prod...UNOQK). I think I'm going to get a set. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Local Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*

Has anyone used bits from the VIM set to stretch head or flywheel bolts? I'm concerned since they're all 3/8" drive and not 1/2" drive.


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

I havent used the VIM ones, but Autozone has the "OEM Brand" ones... I've used them on several builds with no issues.
May also want to check out http://www.metalnerd.com as they have a complete OEM supplied set.


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## IRTermite (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*

VgRt6, you saved the day for me with this post! Thanks! Check my build thread for the reason why... And it was said in my thread that your's should be made a sticky. I agree!


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## JunkelSplitsy (May 1, 2003)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (Zupek)*

THE TRIPLE SQUARE FIASCO
Was changing out my clutch on my 2002 VW 1.8T GTi, so I needed the 10 mm triple square tool. I live in Glassboro, NJ, which is maybe 20 miles from Philadelphia, PA, just to give you an idea how close to civilization I am. This is suburban america, there are stores everywhere. Autozone, Advance, and the mom and pop stores still in business did NOT have this tool. Pep Boys did. The packaging had the name _OEM_ on it, but not like VAG OEM, just some generic tool maker based hopefully NOT in the USA. 
DO NOT BUY THESE TOOLS. 
The first set I bought broke the splines off on the first bolt. Worried that it was user error and the tool was not in all the way I bought another pack from the same Pep Boys down the street. Made sure the bolt was cleaned out and tool was inserted fully. Cracked the splines right off the second bolt. Frustrated, we were able to grind down the broken part of the tool and get the rest off, very very carefully. By the end of the first axle the tools (both modified wby grinding) were toast. THIS WAS NOT USER ERROR. The tools broke apart and clearly looked like they were cast with lead or some other really crappy metal. They literally crumbled under any type of torque. DO NOT BUY THESE TOOLS FROM PEP BOYS. Had to travel to two more Pep Boys just to get two more sacrificial pieces just to get the car back together before NAPA could open on monday and order the parts. This story is much longer and involves the 8mm and 12mm versions of the Pep Boys tool breaking also, but you get the idea. ORDER THE PARTS FROM NAPA IF YOU LIVE IN SOUTH JERSEY, AIN'T NOWHERE ELSE THAT'S GOT 'EM.
Go Phils.


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## 708VR6 (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (JunkelSplitsy)*

I bought the pepboys brand as a backup when I saw they actually carried them, have served me well, although I still use my metalnerd TS bits...they are of excellent quality, better than some of my other "name brand" tools


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## VRsuper6 (Jul 8, 2007)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (JunkelSplitsy)*

word.... i had the OEM 8mm tool break on me this weekend doing axles







got em from autozone....thats the FIRST piece of crap i've ever gotten from autozone, i guess ive been carefull in the past.


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## veedubgolf00 (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VRsuper6)*

autozone junk http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif pepboys way better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Vortexpert (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (veedubgolf00)*

i like the triple square thread is now 2 pages. i wonder if GM uses them


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## oceanjetta (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (Vortexpert)*

Lisle sucks!!! We bought a set and the 12mm was really a 10mm and so on down. They were completely mislabeled!!!!!!!! What bull is that!!!





























Does anyone know where to get a REAL 12mm triple square 12 point wrench bit???? I need one for my Caliper bolts on my 06 Rabbit. Any help out there?


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## olong_us (Nov 3, 2006)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (Vortexpert)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vortexpert* »_i like the triple square thread is now 2 pages. i wonder if GM uses them

As a gm tech of 3 years, i have not seen any gm vehicle use tripple squares, when i first started and had to do my vr6 clutch and chains, i asked if anyone had a set i could borrow, the looked at me and said "what are tripple squares?" Though GM is queer for torx's








I have since bought a short set from mac tools, i spent $45 on those and a long set off cornwell tools $40 on them, no problems with either of those.


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## AbsoluteNovice (Feb 12, 2006)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (olong_us)*

I can't comment about the Auto-Zone tools as I live in Canada and don't have access these but I comment on Snap-On versus Hazet. For Allen keys or triple squares the Hazet tools are better simply because the Hazet tools are hardened and Snap-On aren't. I have 3 Snap-On 8mm triple square sockets which are all stripped and Snap-On won't warranty them because they say they were abused. I know how to use tools and I have done far more drive shafts with the Hazet 8mm which still look new compared to my destroyed Snap-On ones. My Snap-On Allen sockets enjoy stripping bolt heads whereas my Hazet ones simply remove them without damaging them. If you are just going to use these once in a while cheaper ones may work but if you want a socket that is going to last the long run go for a Hazet.
I did destroy one 8mm Hazet triple square socket removing my lock keys for my wheels when I lost the key and that was it. I drilled the lock nut and drive the Hazet triple square in using a hammer and got all four out, I tried the Snap-On first because of my love of their cheap tools and failed right away. Snap-On does make good tools but their Allen & triple square sockets are far too soft and do more damage than good.


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (AbsoluteNovice)*

I have kraftswerk and snap-on ones. They have stood up to years of abuse. I just bought the oem ones from autozone cause I needed one size in the kit and I didn't feel like dealing with my snap-on guy. hopefully they hold up.
Ive used to vim ones in the blue case before. I know a few mechanics at the vw/audi dealer I worked at who own that exact set. They are pretty decent, Ive never seen anyone have a problem stripping them or the bolts.
But like other people stated. Hammering them into the bolt a little bit does wonders in terms of not stripping them out.


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## Taka 2.0 (Oct 27, 2008)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (typeSLone)*

Bought from Pep Boys to take axles out. After the 1st bolt, the bit got stripped. Not even 25 ft/lb of torque...YES OEM brand same as Autozone!!! I will be visiting NAPA or the Snap on tool guy.. 16 dollars after 1 screw...I will be demanding my money!!!


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## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (stt)*

I have owned the snap on Mac matco and hazet and broken all of them ask any tool truck guy they keep like 4-5 on the truck at all times


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## Kessler (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (Angrygilmore)*

Just wanted to thank VgRt6, AGAIN!







Every time I search for a DIY or an answer about a question I have on my VR6, I seem to end up on one of your threads!


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (Kessler)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## We.B.Dubbin (May 17, 2005)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*

I went to four different auto parts stores including NAPA, northern tool, home depot, menards, hardware stores - nobody sells these in the Twin Cities
I finally went to Sears.com and waited it out for shipping


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (We.B.Dubbin)*

Do you have a link for them at Sears? This is the first I'm hearing that they sell them.


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## 708VR6 (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*

Just as I thought, sears does carry them, but, their not craftsman brand, which might explain why i haven't seen or heard of them carrying TS bit
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/sea...vel=0


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## 04 allroad (Mar 9, 2009)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*

Thanks for posting this. I was about to do my stub shaft seal and I didn't have the part to remove the axle. I called NAPA and sure enough they had one in stock for me to pick up right now. Thanks!


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (serrated) bits (VgRt6)*

Damn, I bought the lisle ones like a month ago, pulled two cylinder heads without any issues though. Thanks for the info.


_Modified by GinsterMan98 at 9:44 AM 10-17-2009_


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (VgRt6)*

Went to sears and they looked at me like I was crazy when I asked for tripple squared bits.










_Modified by GinsterMan98 at 9:45 AM 10-17-2009_


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## lol volvo (Oct 12, 2009)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (GinsterMan98)*

I hope I'm not bumping up a way old thread here but these bits are also called 12 point, and XZN bits. This thread is great though, im rebuilding a set of oem volvo bbs wheels and had no clue where to get these.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Source for good quality triple square (lol volvo)*

Thanks for bringing up XZN. Do a Google search for that and A LOT of options come up. I still like the Napa (K-D) bits for the money though.


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## krash133 (Nov 9, 2009)

I went to autozone, napa, and checker(O'Riley/Schucks) and they carry triple square aka 12-point but the only problem is all of them only sell up to 12mm ts.........would explain why so many people are stripping them........many VW bolts I've been finding are 14mm ts










_Modified by krash133 at 10:23 PM 11-10-2009_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (krash133)*

Maybe on the MKV and MKVI cars.  12mm triple square is the largest size on earlier cars.


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## Asphalt Art (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Bought mine from Snap-On, not because I am some "Snap-On" nut or whatever you want to call it. Just about all of my tools are Snap-On, but if ANYTHING of mine breaks, strips, or i just don't think it works well enough, I can actually replace it instead of sucking it up and buying a better tool later.
And I see my Snap-On guy 2 days a week at work on the flightline, and I can call him at any time and pick what I need up. No spending extra time running down the tool I need....ever.

And to the guy that said Snap-On wouldnt warranty his tools from abuse, I call hardcore BS on that one, either from a horrible Snap-On dealer (who doesnt have to pay for them anyways if they break) or a line of crap altogether.


_Modified by Asphalt Art at 6:29 PM 11-12-2009_


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## rono1 (Apr 23, 2002)

*Re: (Asphalt Art)*

Here's how i got my 14mm Triple square bit.. I looked literally for 3days locally..
Called this # for Snap-on customer service 800-775-7636 and asked them if i could have a number to a local authorized dealer AKA the Snap-on delivery truck. well they gave me about 5 dealer numbers in my area and within a hour i had a 14mm triple square bit.


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## Bobby3d (Dec 31, 2010)

*Triple square bolt on VW Cabriolet alternator*

For some bizarre reason, the bottom bolt on my 1990 VW Cab has a (I think) triple square head. Why, I don't know. Does anyone know the size so that I may purchase a socket for it?


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## Bobby3d (Dec 31, 2010)

]For some bizarre reason, the bottom bolt on my 1990 VW Cab alternator has a (I think) triple square head. Why, I don't know. Does anyone know the size so that I may purchase a socket for it?


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## Bobby3d (Dec 31, 2010)

For some bizarre reason, the bottom bolt on my 1990 VW Cab alternator has a (I think) triple square head. Why, I don't know. Does anyone know the size so that I may purchase a socket for it?

Sorry for messing up. First time up here. Also, if the current alternator is an aftermarket, is there any way to know the amp rating other than by a post on the body of the alternator?


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Snap-on makes incredibly high quality/well thought out tools and I personally feel they are the best *BUT* for the DIY'er they aren't really cost effective. I have Craftsman, Mac, Matco, and all the cheap stuff and always reach for Snap On if I have it. The $98 1/4" ratchet I just bought helps me get the job done faster and pays for itself. 

Just saw this set on ecstuning's website. 5.5" Long triple square set 6,8,10,12,14,16 for $34.16. Looks like a no brainer. Think I'm ordering today. I think the snap on M10 I bought for headbolts ~6-7 years ago was ~$50 by itself IIRC. Awesome tool. 1/2" drive and showed no signs of wear, but it was in my tool bag that was stolen at the track so gotta go cheap

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Corrado--VR6_12v/Drivetrain/Driveshaft/ES9011/


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## mkthreez (Feb 2, 2010)

Can't seem to find any in my area :banghead:


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## JohnStamos (Feb 3, 2010)

mkthreez said:


> Can't seem to find any in my area :banghead:


Autozone/pepboys. They list it as an Internal wrench set. They work pretty well for they ~$10 they cost for a set of 4.

Napa also carries them, individual,


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## mkthreez (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks man :thumbup:


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## Steve516 (Jul 19, 2002)

Sears is now offering Schwaben triple square tools if you do a search - looks like orders only, not in stores.


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## dzlpowered (May 28, 2011)

*Triple Squares*



Tire_Marx said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *Soviet B3* »_They were just the shanks though, and you would use a 1/2 socket amd ratchet to power them.
> 
> those work fine for headbolts and flywheel bolts, but make me scream and throw tools across the garage when it comes time to do a cv joint


Did mine two weeks ago and found that it wasn't that bad, though having a socket and ratchet would have made that little project a lot quicker...still, the Autozone specials I got lasted both cv-axles and they look non the worse for wear. This was a life saving thread...didn't even know what to call these things before I started it. Thank you vortex gurus!!


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## poopsonu (May 25, 2008)

Life saving thread. I hate when the people at auto parts stores look at me like an idiot when I ask for things like this, or g12....


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## HavokRuels (Jan 9, 2011)

I've purchased mine through Allied and the 10 piece set cost me roughly 100.00 bucks and they have never FAILED me.

You get what you pay for, I could have bought a set of 4 from AutoZone for 10 bucks but I'll be damned that I would attempt removing head bolts with them.


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## Estacaco (Oct 10, 2010)

Just for the Canadians. Napa Canada does carry the serrated XZN triple square bits.
PN#
67699 -12mm
67698 -10mm
67697 -8mm


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## khuygie88 (Jan 21, 2005)

Bump this up so it appears on the googles some more- helped me get the Napa part number I was looking for. 

Any idea if these fall under Napa's supposed lifetime warranty?


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## Estacaco (Oct 10, 2010)

I honestly have no clue. I'm glad it helped you! I couldn't find the numbers online anywhere so I thought I'd put them up.

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


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## khuygie88 (Jan 21, 2005)

I'll ask when I pick one up today and report back.


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## khuygie88 (Jan 21, 2005)

Well it took the three employees looking at each other uncomfortably to get a yes- so I guess the answer I probably not. 

I came home and used it, it held up great even having to be tapped into 2 bolts with a hammer. If it had stripped out I would have gone back but I bet that is the only chance you'll get at exchanging it.


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## Estacaco (Oct 10, 2010)

I was able to use a 1/2" socket wrench with a pole on mine and it didn't break lol

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk


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## khuygie88 (Jan 21, 2005)

Bumping again because I came back to it needing the 10mm - I ordered the 12mm as well, because I figure for 7 bucks I'd rather not get caught needing it and not having it like I am without the 10mm right now :banghead: Stupid AC compressor and dumbas$ previous owner.... Even with the right tool I'm going to need a prayer :screwy: :beer::beer:


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## John222 (Oct 11, 2008)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Damn, I bought the lisle ones like a month ago, pulled two cylinder heads without any issues though. Thanks for the info.
> 
> 
> _Modified by GinsterMan98 at 9:44 AM 10-17-2009_


I bought the Lisle's about a year ago and I've done three axles without a problem. Previously I had some by autozone and they tore out on the first bolt. It was like they were made of aluminum.


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## khuygie88 (Jan 21, 2005)

Absolutely no problem with the ones from NAPA- I had to use a hand sledge to get these 10mm one to bite into the stripped triple squares I went after today, and they looks like they re fresh out of the package- I've done 4 axles now and probably hammered that one 6-8 times as well.

Now I just want people to get the right tools for the right job so it doesn't feel like I'm chasing down people's mistakes!


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## Ginovega (Jul 22, 2013)

*Yeah man*



VgRt6 said:


> Of course there are other (and probably better) sources for the bits. I posted this mainly because Napa is close to many of us US Vortexers (do they have Napa in Canada?). The Napa bits are very cheap and are more than enough quality to stretch-torque flywheel bolts.<p>I'd love to have Snap-on bits, but not all of us make the big bucks up there in the Great White North. Eh.<p>I've never heard of Hazet tools. Where can you get them and how expensive are they?<p><br>Gary


And it's good for the economy. . . .opcorn:


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