# Best year New Beetle (02-08)



## R0tten (Sep 10, 2013)

Hi! I plan on getting my wife a New Beetle and wondering which year is the best and most reliable year between 2003-2008.

All I am considering is reliability really. Like transmission etc etc

Please help!


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

Many have said; the second generation New Beetle was a more reliable car (2006-on) however there are SO MANY other variables to this issue! EACH one of these things/options: brings with it, its own problems or increase in service, maintenance or repair requirements, inherent engineering weaknesses or common problems. 

1. engine
2. transmission
3. hardtop, sunroof, or convertible

_*The REAL question is; what does the perspective driver of this car want in the way of engine, trans, model, bells/whistles and body type? :screwy: Discuss, the buyers desires and we can talk about the common issues and problems with what is desired! :wave: Help us; to help you! :laugh:*_

The most reliable; is typically... the MOST BORING version of the car; 2.0L with a 5 speed and no sunroof, no electric windows, stripped of all the bells/whistles and thus, less things to go wrong and break!  BUT who wants to drive around a stripped, slow, boring New Beetle around; when you can have a Turbo S, zipping around town and having so much fun in it? eace: Tell us what your wife; REALLY wants and we can go from there! :wave:

If you want a REALLY reliable car; get a Toyota or a Honda... if you want to have a fun car to drive, get a GERMAN car but just realize, you CANNOT ignore these cars... they require constant maintenance and attention!  IF ALL of your concerns; are about reliablity, then you may want to look elsewhere, ALL european cars require time, money and attention... that most people who have Japanese cars are not used to! Tell us about your background; what cars you have owned and what you expect out of your new Volkswagen and how long you plan on keeping it! 

PS: good poll to put on newbeetle.org as well.... might get more hits...


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## Rockerchick (May 10, 2005)

billymade said:


> BUT who wants to drive around a stripped, slow, boring New Beetle around; when you can have a Turbo S, zipping around town and having so much fun in it?


I had that 2.0 5-speed base model for 6 1/2 years. It was perfectly fun to drive. Its all about how you drive it  And it didn't cost much to maintain in the time I owned it. My GTI has certainly cost me more in half the time of ownership. 

But yes, I agree. It depends on what you are looking for specifically. Engines, transmissions, etc. all change a lot over the years so knowing what you are looking for more specifically would help us point you in the right direction.


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## R0tten (Sep 10, 2013)

billymade said:


> Many have said; the second generation New Beetle was a more reliable car (2006-on) however there are SO MANY other variables to this issue! EACH one of these things/options: brings with it, its own problems or increase in service, maintenance or repair requirements, inherent engineering weaknesses or common problems.
> 
> 1. engine
> 2. transmission
> ...







Sure!!! I'll post on the other site too! Thanks for the responses!

The desires in the new beetle I choose:

Least problematic overall...
Any particular "style" doesn't matter to us
Mostly concerned about the automatic transmission which is the least failures in a specific year
Not too concerned about accessories issues, more concerned about engine/transmission reliability
MPG does not concern us within these years

Summary:

Which year has the most reliable engine and transmission?
Which year is the cheapest to maintain for reliability?


P.S.: I would LOVE to get her a Toyota (I have a Honda civic) but she INSISTS on LOVING the vw beetle .... so I am just trying to find the best year out of the ones I can afford. Gotta make the misses happy.


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

PREFERRED: 

Convertible, period. If in accident on CARFAX don't buy that car as convertible. Cycle the tops open close sequence *at least *10 times (not back to back) before you buy. 
'04 Convertible in 1.8T 6 SP Auto (non DSG), '05 1.8T 5 SP M (GL or GLX), 06' 5 SP Man with 2.5l (only year the 2.5l offered w/ man trans on Conv until '08) or 5 SP M 1.8T or 1.9TDI, '07 onward 2.5l 6 SP Auto (non DSG only). 2008 2.5L (only motor still offered) has 5SP M trans available again. 
6 Speed (02M) Man Trans mated to the 1.8T "S" motor or TDI. 
5 Speed Man Trans. Not as beefy as the 6SP M but this is the preferred choice for a 2.0 non turbo or TDI 
6 speed auto (slushbox, not DSG). They have zero service intervals and better suited for a cruiser. Available in 2004. 
2.0 non turbo (115 hp motor). Only mate this to the 5 SP M trans (Avail '04). A chip added to this combo will make a peppy commuter. 
2.5l 5 Cyl motor with 5 SP man trans. The 2.5l 5 cyl motor with 6 SP Auto trans (not DSG). Sorry, in '06 & '07 the EPA made this combo (2.5L & 6SP Auto) the least of drive train evils. No man trans avail these years. Add the APR tune for a stealth tune thru the turn stalk with 181hp & 204tq 91 octane. 

NOT PREFERRED: 

DSG, it's a computer shifted manual trans prone to issues. Yes, you still get to buy an expensive clutch when they wear out. 
4 Speed auto (earlier cars). A performance nightmare for a 2.0 (115 hp) non turbo car. It will neuter any other motors performance. 
2.5l motor with DSG. DSG too heavy. Not enough motor to justify split second shifts and its service intervals that include clutch replacement like a manual clutch. 
Any convertible not listed above as preferred. Reliability or lackluster performance issues come into play. 

*2002 ... No Convertible this year. Older body style with round back up lights .... 1.8T WITH 6 SPEED MANUAL (02M) TRANS IS THE HOT PICK. 
Edmunds "What's New for 2002*
A Turbo S model debuts, motivated by a 180-horsepower version of VW's1.8-liter turbo engine teamed with a six-speed manual gearbox. Other exclusives for the Turbo S include Electronic Stabilization Program (ESP), a slightly stiffer suspension, 17-inch "Delta X" alloy wheels, revised turn signals and foglights, a front spoiler, a redesigned rear bumper with Turbo S badging and brushed alloy interior accents. Additionally, a rear spoiler will deploy from the hatch when these special Bugs reach 45 mph. Exterior paint for the S is limited to Reflex Silver, Black, Red and Platinum Gray. Later in the year, a Sport model debuts -- it's essentially a GLS 1.8T with a five-speed manual, 17-inch wheels, leather interior and a Sport badge on the deck lid. Changes for the rest of the lineup are minor: New colors such as limited-edition Snap Orange and Riviera Blue further enhance the Beetle's eye-candy appeal, and 16-inch wheels with 205/55 tires are now standard across the board. For 2002, all-new Volkswagen vehicles come standard with an improved four-year/50,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, up from two years/24,000 miles. In addition, Volkswagen offers a fully transferable limited powertrain warranty that covers five years or 60,000 miles."

*2003 ... 6th season for this body style. Convertible came back this year
Edmunds "What's New for 2003*
Volkswagen makes the TDI and 150-horsepower 1.8T engines available on the base GL trim level. All GLs now come with power windows and cruise control, and the GL 1.8T and all GLS models get alloy wheels. Stability control (ESP), heated seats, and the Monsoon sound system will be available across the line. All models except the GL get a standard sunroof and a larger center console container, and the GL and GLS have new cloth upholstery. Note that last year's Sport model has been discontinued. All models have a more comfortable rear seat, a clock/temperature display on the rearview mirror and turn signals mounted on the outside mirrors. Finally, if you've been holding out for a Beetle convertible since 1998, your wait is almost over -- the first drop tops should arrive at the dealers just in time for, well, winter. The first ones will be 2.0 GL and GLS models in February 2003, 1.8T-equipped GLS and GLX models later in the spring."
*
2004 ... THE NEW BODY STYLE IS HERE. Most don't have front fog lights but can be easily added as a kit.
Edmunds "What's New for 2004*
For 2004, the New Beetle is no longer available in GLX trim. There's an improved TDI engine and restyled 16- and 17-inch wheels. Turbo S models get uniquely styled 17-inch wheels as a late-year addition. New safety features include head curtain airbags and upgraded head restraints. The Monsoon audio system is now standard on the GLS and new GDL headlights are optional. Later in the model year a fixed rear spoiler will replace the power-operated unit and a CD player with MP3 capability will be added. Convertibles get new exterior colors and color combinations. All Beetles get a new fuel cap warning light this year. TDI models can be equipped with a Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG), which is a six-speed manual transmission with electronic control of the clutch and gearshifting. It can be operated in full automatic mode, like a traditional automatic, or shifted manually like a Tiptronic."
*
2005 ... The 6 SPEED (02M) MANUAL TRANS IS GONE! DSG 6 SP IS HERE (Not recommended)
Edmunds "What's New for 2005*
Changes for 2005 include a new optional six-speed automatic transmission with the 2.0 and 1.8T engines, a standard MP3 connector for the radio and a satellite radio (either XM or Sirius) option. The 1.8T engine gets squeaky-clean with a ULEV emissions rating. Color changes (always an important factor in any New Beetle purchase) are as follows: Shadow Blue replaces Galactic Blue, Tornado Red replaces Uni Red, and Blue Lagoon is no longer available."

*2006 ... THE 2.5l 5 CYL IS ONLY OPTION. CONVERT ONLY AVAIL W/ 6 SP AUTO OR DSG (NOT RECOMENDED). APR TUNING NOW HAS A CHIP TUNE FOR THE 2.5l MOTOR. 
Edmunds "What's New for 2006*
The New Beetle gets a styling refresh for 2006. New front and rear bumpers, headlights and tail lamps highlight the exterior changes. Inside, the cabin receives a new console, redesigned instrument cluster, revised sun visors and additional chrome trim. Under hood, last year's gasoline engine choices are dropped in favor of the 150-horsepower, 2.5-liter, five-cylinder engine first seen in the redesigned Jetta. Stability control is now standard."

*2007 ... TDI IS GONE IN CA (POSS ACROSS THE US). 3000 TRIPLE WHITE CONVERTABLES MADE THIS YEAR. PZEV (ULTRA LOW EMMISSION 2.5l) START ROLLING IN CA. 
Edmunds "What's New for 2007*
The New Beetle TDI has been discontinued because its diesel-fueled engine didn't meet new 2007 government emission standards. Otherwise, there are no other major changes to the VW Beetle."

*2008 ... 3000 TRIPLE WHITE HARDTOPS MADE THIS YEAR. 3000 HARDTOP BLACK TIE MADE THIS YEAR. ONLY NOTICABLE OFFERING IN '09 WAS "BLUSH" LIMITED ED. OF 3000 IN SILVER (BURGANDY TOP IF CONVERT) AND BURG INTERIOR.
Edmunds "What's New for 2008*
Volkswagen's New Beetle compact carries over into 2008 with just minor changes to trim level names and optional feature lists."


DO NOT BUY FROM A NON VW DEALER UNLESS THEY HAVE THE DEEP POCKETS BUY BACK WARRANTY WHEN/IF PROBLEMS ARRISE. IF YOU'RE PURCHASING A HIGH MILAGE CAR OTHER THAN A 2.5l 6 SP AUTO (NON DSG) BUY AN AFTERMARKET (LOW/ZERO DEDUCTABLE) WARRANTY THE DEALER OR DEEP POCKETS DEALER WILL HONOR UNTIL IT EXPIRES (BACKED BY VW). 

SPEND $150 TO SAVE $1500 BY HAVING THE CAR INSPECTED AT *YOUR* INDIE SHOP BEFORE YOU BUY. IF THEY FREAK OR DON'T WANT YOU TO GET IT INSPECTED, THEY SUCK, MOVE ON!


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## R0tten (Sep 10, 2013)

petethepug said:


> PREFERRED:
> 
> Convertible, period. If in accident on CARFAX don't buy that car as convertible. Cycle the tops open close sequence *at least *10 times (not back to back) before you buy.
> '04 Convertible in 1.8T 6 SP Auto (non DSG), '05 1.8T 5 SP M (GL or GLX), 06' 5 SP Man with 2.5l (only year the 2.5l offered w/ man trans on Conv until '08) or 5 SP M 1.8T or 1.9TDI, '07 onward 2.5l 6 SP Auto (non DSG only). 2008 2.5L (only motor still offered) has 5SP M trans available again.
> ...




You sir have just made my day. You responded to every single question and concern I posed (along with the help given to me from the others here). You responded with no excess information and no to little. You also provided DETAILS on what you recommend. For that I bow down to you. Here's my response:

So by having automatic in mind as a must, this is what I got from your post  :

-------------------
~Get:

'04 Convertible in 1.8T 6 SP Auto (non DSG only)
'06 Convertible 2.5L 6 SP Auto (non DSG only)
'07 Convertible+ onward 2.5L 6 SP Auto (non DSG only)

* 6 speed auto (slushbox, not DSG). They have zero service intervals and better suited for a cruiser. Available in 2004.
* 2.5L 5 cyl motor with 6 SP Auto (not DSG)

~Do Not Get:

* 4 Speed auto (earlier cars) 2.0L (115 hp) in a non turbo car
* 2.0L non turbo (115 hp motor) in auto


-------------------


What do you consider "earlier cars" (no sarcasm intended by the quotation)? I just got access to consumer reports. The one consumer report picks for best engine and transmission is a 2008 model. What do you think about that
year? According to car complaints.com, 2004 is the worst year for owner complaints of a transmission failure...?


Judging by my comprehension of your post and what I've read........

So it seems like the best year, in my case, is to get this:
'08 Convertible 2.5L 6 SP Auto (non DSG only)

But honest it wouldn't hurt either to get 1 of these:
'04 Convertible 1.8T 6 SP Auto (non DSG only)
'06 Convertible 2.5L 6 SP Auto (non DSG only)
'07 Convertible 2.5L 6 SP Auto (non DSG only)


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

I got a 07 triple white convertible w/ '78 K on the Odo. $9995. The only option was the 6 SP Auto & 2.5l. Paid 1k for a VW sponsored aftermarket warr for 2 years on the motor & trans.

The 2.5l motor is noisy from the factory at start up. The secondary air inj pump (SAI) whines til the cat heats up. I'd get the 2.5l 5 and 6SP Auto since the buyers tend to be cruise orientated vs performance minded. Get ur loan b4 you shop. I got a 10k loan that flexed 20% for add on's. That price and under got me 2.9% rate on a 07 & newer car.

When the DLR knew they had a set price NO bs occurred & they squeezed the package together. The car was sold at the same DLR 2x prior w/ all serv history. They did a lot of (wear/tear) work on the car prior to selling it the 3rd time to us.


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## R0tten (Sep 10, 2013)

petethepug said:


> I got a 07 triple white convertible w/ '78 K on the Odo. $9995. The only option was the 6 SP Auto & 2.5l. Paid 1k for a VW sponsored aftermarket warr for 2 years on the motor & trans.
> 
> The 2.5l motor is noisy from the factory at start up. The secondary air inj pump (SAI) whines til the cat heats up. I'd get the 2.5l 5 and 6SP Auto since the buyers tend to be cruise orientated vs performance minded. Get ur loan b4 you shop. I got a 10k loan that flexed 20% for add on's. That price and under got me 2.9% rate on a 07 & newer car.
> 
> When the DLR knew they had a set price NO bs occurred & they squeezed the package together. The car was sold at the same DLR 2x prior w/ all serv history. They did a lot of (wear/tear) work on the car prior to selling it the 3rd time to us.


When you say you'd get the "2.5l* 5 a*nd 6SP Auto", do you mean 5 speed OR 6speed or do you mean 5 cylinder 6 speed?

I pay cold hard cash 
Btw, also, did I comprehend your recommendations correctly from what I listed as good years?


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

You got it right and 6SP Auto trans (non DSG) & 2.5l (5 cyl) motor. Try to find a car w/ leather & heated seats. It wears better & a must for the convertible for evening drives.


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## wraithkl626 (Dec 29, 2011)

Here is another recommendation for the 2.5L/6 speed tiptronic. This should be the most maintenance free combination with an automatic.


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## Rockerchick (May 10, 2005)

You can get the hardtops in those combos as well. It all depends in preference if you want a vert or not. 

And IMO, if you are going with an earlier car, a 2.0 is the only one I'd get an auto with. They have the least amount of power and torque going to the transmission, which helps it last longer. I've seen 2.0s with 200k+ on their autos. Not very common with a 1.8t or TDI.


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## R0tten (Sep 10, 2013)

Rockerchick said:


> You can get the hardtops in those combos as well. It all depends in preference if you want a vert or not.
> 
> And IMO, if you are going with an earlier car, a 2.0 is the only one I'd get an auto with. They have the least amount of power and torque going to the transmission, which helps it last longer. I've seen 2.0s with 200k+ on their autos. Not very common with a 1.8t or TDI.


Thanks for the chime in again! What do you consider an earlier car? <=2004?


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## Rockerchick (May 10, 2005)

Well I meant earlier in your year range. You can get a 2.0 auto all the way through 05 though.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

When it comes to the 2.5L; make sure you get a later model, there were issues with the timing chain and tensioners, these early ones had catastrophic failures, which many times required a whole new engine. The later versions; supposedly, had revised parts and fixed the issues. Read more about it here:

https://www.google.com/webhp?source... 2.5L timing chain tensioner failure problems


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

Good info on the timing chain. Glad I got a power train war since the car has 78K. The next step is to get all the service records since it's always been a dealer serviced car. 

86 whp (mustang dyno) on a 2700lb car aint no fun. On a convertible @ 86 hp on a 3200lb car is an issue. An auto vs. stick is 110lb more on the car. The DSG is 20% lighter than the Auto slushbox but saving 25lb on a 3200lb car is moot.
130 whp is what the 5 cyl auto is able to wring out with a stick connected at the wheels (per the mustang dyno).

The 93 Jetta III we owned was 2647lb with the same 115 4 cyl motor and 5 speed trans. It was a good combo that maximized the engine. I couldn't imagine a slushbox in this car or a bug coupe that weighs the same.

The 2.5l is a 4 valve per cylinder motor. Nothing better than having an APR tune available for the ECU to get 180HP / 201FT-LBS (crank hp) from *way de-tuned stock 150hp/170tq.* Plus the fact it can be put back to factory tune thru the stalk/display. The current 2012 Beetle 2.5 motor jumped up to 170 hp. To jump from 150 in the older motor to 180/201 with only a chip is a gift. Adding a CAI will give a 2.5l NB a 186hp 207tq tune. That's a clean 25% increase in hp.

The tiptronic/DSG trans can total the car if it goes bad. They're that expensive. Failure to meet the service intervals is what kills them. If that doesn't scare you, then think about the 30-40K service intervals of fluid drains of $3-$4H. The "wet" clutch packs are good for 50-100K miles depending on how you drive, the HP you're putting down and adherence to the service intervals. Figure on $2-$4K for a DSG clutch job/service if all is typical. I love the DSG trans but it doesn't justify having lightning quick shifts on a stock 86 or 130hp at the wheels.


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## billymade (Jan 29, 2008)

This 2.5L issues; just goes to show you; THERE IS NO PERFECT spec New Beetle, you have to decide which engine, trans, bells and whistles you want. Each one; comes with it's positives and negatives. Then, be AWARE of the weaknesses and fail points on whatever options, you choose, adjust accordingly and do your best to do preventative maintenance and keep your eyes, on the service intervals, adjust for things, that people have experienced failures with! These cars are like a torrid love affair; with a high maintenance partner.... they NEED ATTENTION and they will not be denied! They will kick/scream and let you know, when you have ignored them (in other words; BREAK DOWN)! LOL!  Just do it, if you want a VW New Beetle! 


_BUT if you are looking for a car, that is ultra reliable and that you can ignore, never maintain, ....etc.. _

Do yourself a favor and look elsewhere... Toyota and Honda, come to mind! :wave:


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## R0tten (Sep 10, 2013)

billymade said:


> This 2.5L issues; just goes to show you; *THERE IS NO PERFECT spec New Beetle,* you have to decide which engine, trans, bells and whistles you want. _Then, be AWARE of the weaknesses and fail points on whatever options, you choose, adjust accordingly and do you best to do preventative maintenance and keep your eyes, on the service intervals, adjust for things, that people have experienced failures with! These cars are like a torrid love affair; with a high maintenance partner.... they NEED ATTENTION and they will not be denied! They will kick/scream and let you know, when you have ignored them (in other words; BREAK DOWN)! LOL!_  Just do it, if you want a VW New Beetle!
> 
> 
> _BUT if you are looking for a car, that is ultra reliable and that you can ignore, never maintain, ....etc.. _
> ...


 I agree, but unfortunately she just HAS to have a beetle. I think by getting one of the years/options I posted from everyone's opinion, I will get a high maintenance year instead of a high*ER* maintenance year. :laugh:

Better to get the least worst out of *all* the worst years that require the most maintenance.


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