# ITB project that was posted



## rallyferret (May 23, 2006)

There was a shop on here doing an ITB project, and they had a website where they sold custom intake manifolds, air/water intercoolers, etc... who were they? I can't find it


----------



## rallyferret (May 23, 2006)

*Re: ITB project that was posted (rallyferret)*

Nevermmind, I think I found them (HKK motorsports)


----------



## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

Yes. They are/were expected to be sold through USRT however. http://www.usrallyteam.com


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Whats the latest on devlopment for MkIV 2.0's ?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_Whats the latest on devlopment for MkIV 2.0's ?

get a MKIII.


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

it was in the booth at waterfest


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

unfourtunatly I cant get a MKIII b/c I have a MKIV and also unfortunate I was out of town the w.e of waterfest.
Thus all these unfortunates everyone should feel sad for me j/k lol


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

ohh yeah pure porn 









I wonder how much they will sell


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

oh hells yea that looks like it could be easily adapted to a MKIV. 
I wonder if there would need to be any software modification?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_oh hells yea that looks like it could be easily adapted to a MKIV. 
I wonder if there would need to be any software modification?

Like the magic 8 ball says, "It is certain."


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
Like the magic 8 ball says, "It is certain."

is this magic 8 ball responding to the software or MKIV comment?


----------



## McNeil (Jan 18, 2006)

I am not sure who I talked to @ the USRT booth but I questioned the ITB project for the 2.liter and I was assured that it was being designed to work with a MAF and stock programing. He (sorry I did not ask his name) also said that they would like to do it as a package deal with a new cam and some other goodies.


_Modified by McNeil at 12:24 AM 7-19-2006_


----------



## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: (McNeil)*


_Quote, originally posted by *McNeil* »_I am not sure who I talked to @ the USRT booth but I questioned the ITB project for the 2.liter and I was assured that it was being designed to work with a MAF and stock programing.

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work with a plenum setup as shown above. However, I would assume that you'd have to get a custom chip burnt and fine tune it from there with either reburns or a piggy back system


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (McNeil)*


_Quote, originally posted by *McNeil* »_I am not sure who I talked to @ the USRT booth but I questioned the ITB project for the 2.liter and I was assured that it was being designed to work with a MAF and stock programing. He (sorry I did not ask his name) also said that they would like to do it as a package deal with a new cam and some other goodies.

_Modified by McNeil at 12:24 AM 7-19-2006_

I can't see it being used with a stock chip, bud... think about it, even without a cam, the increased air volume would require more fuel and could allow for more agressive timing... and from what Greg told me, they are working with [email protected] Motorsports to develope a chip... (unless I got mixed up with the other stuff we were talking about







)
With a cam, it would almost certainly need a chip, or you could risk getting too lean. Either way, without a chip, you won't get as much out of them as you can.


----------



## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (vento 95 GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vento 95 GL* »_ohh yeah pure porn 









I wonder how much they will sell

I imagine quite a bit. The dual plenum intake manifold, which is pretty much on there as far as materials and labor are concerned, is $650 I believe. So add that to the throttle bodies themselves, the extra welding required, the cam, and the fact that there is a pretty good demand for them and you have a pretty expensive part. I could be wrong though.


----------



## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: (vento 95 GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vento 95 GL* »_ohh yeah pure porn 









I wonder how much they will sell

omg.. pure aftermarket NA sex.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

humm wonder when the release date or what stage of development this is at.


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

maine forest rally is this upcoming weekend...then im out for vacation to montana. when i get back first week of august these are going in the car and getting the prelin dyno testing done, then its off for the custom software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
expected market price for the itb's will be somewhere in the $800-1000 range


----------



## mack73 (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

Yum.... put me down for 1 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
There was speculation before about how the ITB's were attached and from the pictures it looks like they are welded together? is this going to be the final form? If so I hope an ITB doesn't break and need replacing 


_Modified by mack73 at 7:12 AM 7-19-2006_


----------



## McNeil (Jan 18, 2006)

Opps, I guess I missed the part about the the custome software.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (hkk735)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_maine forest rally is this upcoming weekend...then im out for vacation to montana. when i get back first week of august these are going in the car and getting the prelin dyno testing done, then its off for the custom software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
expected market price for the itb's will be somewhere in the $800-1000 range


The picture of the one with the chamber attached looks like it could be MkIV possible. I assume the 800-100o range doesnt include this?


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

never assume








800-1000 for the setup similar to what you see above ( we are making our own tb's, not using the bike itb's for production pieces, going modular)


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (hkk735)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_never assume








800-1000 for the setup similar to what you see above ( we are making our own tb's, not using the bike itb's for production pieces, going modular)

I wait patiently hoping these are avalible before tax return time in January


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_expected market price for the itb's will be somewhere in the $800-1000 range









............sick pricing, Im so waiting on this!


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

yea it will I just hope they dont forget about us MKIV owners when it comes to the chip.....
Damn I hate waiting for development. But this will be worth the wait. 
Any speculation on what kinda power gains we will get.


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

the sound of that intake and itb's must be ill to listen !!!
HKK make sure you do a video when you install them . http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (vento 95 GL)*

That's one rockin setup!
I would have figured you guys to use bike TB's, even though it would be cheaper to build your own. You's a genius..........


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

what kind of gains is this setup looking at?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Im going to go out on limb here....
I'm gonna guess and say at _least_ 145 to the wheels. Thats my guesstimate.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

Sell you mk4 for a mk3 and use the extra money for one of these, I can see the mk4 chips being in the 300-500 dollar range for these because of the complexity of retuning and super low demand. 145hp is still nothing in a heavey mk4. good thing mk3 chips are $75-125.


----------



## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Im going to go out on limb here....
I'm gonna guess and say at _least_ 145 to the wheels. Thats my guesstimate.

That sounds high to me, but if they do make that much power for the price these would be a great alternative to the neuspeed chargers, and you get the cool sound of itb's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I am anxious to see the final design. 800-1000 is quite a bit less than I was expecting, I am just curious how the throttle bodies can be made so cheap?
Have you run the pictured set on a car yet? I would love to hear a sound clip when you get one. 


_Modified by _muppet_ at 1:47 AM 7-22-2006_


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_Sell you mk4 for a mk3 and use the extra money for one of these, I can see the mk4 chips being in the 300-500 dollar range for these because of the complexity of retuning and super low demand. 145hp is still nothing in a heavey mk4. good thing mk3 chips are $75-125.


from what i understand they will be avalible for mkIV's also


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_muppet_* »_
That sounds high to me, but if they do make that much power for the price these would be a great alternative to the neuspeed chargers, and you get the cool sound of itb's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I am anxious to see the final design. 800-1000 is quite a bit less than I was expecting, I am just curious how the throttle bodies can be made so cheap?
Have you run the pictured set on a car yet? I would love to hear a sound clip when you get one. 

_Modified by _muppet_ at 1:47 AM 7-22-2006_

Too high huh?
Ok, You'll need a ported head for this set-up for starters. no way the 288* cam is gonna work on a "stock"head. So with the head, you'll most likely shave .040" off it, right? Ok...now the chip tuning is being done by, undoubtedly, the best chip tuner in the industry...the same guy that pulled over 125whp out of a STOCK 2.0 with just tuning ALONE. So, we got the ported head, 288* cam, and killer tuning...Now we add the ITB w/ tapered stacks and a dual plenum intake manfild.
I was being modest with my 145whp guesstimate.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

sure they will, but all that noise to be beaten by stock 1.8T's means you just spent 1K-1.5K on a heavy slow economy car. you could have bought a stock 1.8t and gone BT for similar costs.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

You're missing the whole point here....anyone can sell their MKIII for a fat pig of a MKIV any day...the whole joy of owning a 2.slo is the process of making it fast. Getting 145 to the wheels on an N/A 2.0....man, your gonna piss off a LOT of VR & 1.8t owners.


----------



## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Too high huh?
Ok, You'll need a ported head for this set-up for starters. no way the 288* cam is gonna work on a "stock"head. So with the head, you'll most likely shave .040" off it, right? Ok...now the chip tuning is being done by, undoubtedly, the best chip tuner in the industry...the same guy that pulled over 125whp out of a STOCK 2.0 with just tuning ALONE. So, we got the ported head, 288* cam, and killer tuning...Now we add the ITB w/ tapered stacks and a dual plenum intake manfild.
I was being modest with my 145whp guesstimate.









I know you are more up on this than I am, but in fairness, I have heard no mention of a 288* cam. So your telling me that everyone who buys this setup is also going to spend several hundred dollars on head work? I thought the point of these was cheap bolt on power for the 2.0? No disrespect to anyone here, but if you are going to spend 1500 or so to get 145 whp, then why not just pick up a used turbo kit and get the extra gain in power? Unless they are for a show car, or some N/A only class of racing I guess I just don't understand the purpose. I will admit the sound is cool, but so is the sound of a turbo.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

well for one 145whp is good, second its a hobby to mod a 2.0, yes we could buy a 1.8t and have 300whp easy but what they hell fun is that.

I dont think he is saying u need a 288 but its optimum.


_Modified by ejg3855 at 6:41 PM 7-21-2006_


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=3

_Quote, originally posted by *HKK735* »_sorry if i didnt respond sooner, must have missed your ? so anyway> *this setup is tuned for the 3rd harmonic, on stock valves, 276 or 288 cam 7kredline*

Why would you spend that much money on this setup and NOT flow the head???



_Modified by tdogg74 at 9:30 PM 7-21-2006_


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

So long as the tuning is on point (hopefully your talking about Jeff), this setup would be just as reliable as a bone stock setup. It'd make an awesome daily, which is what alot of mkIV guys use for commutes. This would be an awesome investment as a whole, especially when put to use in a mkI or mkII aba swapped car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

i think a MKIV with a 260 (so no CEL) a p&p head would be fine with this might not bet he same as a 288 cam. but still a ahuge improvement.


----------



## bigteal (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

i would love to run one of these, but i think that the mk3 and i may part company in the spring. it's been fun, but i really want to get back to work on my chevelle.
BTW: greg, any interest in fabbing a twin turbo system for a small block chevy? i may win the lottery any day now


----------



## PHATBOY (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (bigteal)*

will this kit work on a 1.6 8v motor?


----------



## bigteal (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: (PHATBOY)*

not if it's a counterflow head ( intake and exhaust manifolds are on the same side).
hkk motorsports would probably fab one up for your engine though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

i assume all vac lines would be relocated to the phlenum shown in the pictures


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_i assume all vac lines would be relocated to the phlenum shown in the pictures

Nopes... Manifold vacuum is measured and distributed between the throttle plates and intake valves... the plenum is upstream from the throttle bodies. This makes it a good source for Venturi Vacuum, but not Manifold Vacuum... each of the TB runners will likely have a nipple and all four will be hooked together like a convetional ITB setup...
Unless Greg and USRT have a nothing great idea stashed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

i am confuesed by the 145whp estimate. How much benefit is there over the SRI. what gains are made through the ITB that isnt gained throught the SRI ?


----------



## domin4nt (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

If i'm reading what you said correctly then, the difference is this. ITB's are individual throttle bodies. It's not just 1 TB, like we currently have on our car, but instead 4 TB's. Thus taking in a lot more air at once. With the SRI and no ITB's you've still got only 1 TB taking in air. With the SRI and ITB's you're eliminating more of that air restriction. 
I hope that made sense.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

yea it makes sense 4tb's have a high air flow than 1. the dia of 1tb is appox 2.5" and 4tb prolly have a volume of 50% more than the 1. Wonder what kinda of hits to fuel mileage this will pose. More air requires more fuel.


----------



## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_sure they will, but all that noise to be beaten by stock 1.8T's means you just spent 1K-1.5K on a heavy slow economy car. you could have bought a stock 1.8t and gone BT for similar costs.

look, any joe can go out and buy a 1.8t, chip, exhaust, intake, whatever and make more power than any of us 2.0l guys ever dreamed of.
that's not what we're here to do. it's all about overcoming obstacles and doing something no one expected and gain respect while doing it.
like the intake manifold USRT/HKK are fabbing. did anyone, i mean, ANYONE think they would be putting one of those on their 2.0l's 5 years ago? no way. why? cause everyone gave up on this engine. it was a lost cause.
now, finally, it's here to offer and making a n/a 2.0l is worth the time/effort/fustration.
i own a lysholm corrado, 16v cammed-up scirocco and my 2.0l gti.
and, in all honesty, the little 2.0l has been my favorite of all.
i might be crazy, but it's the truth.
the corrado just needed more boost and the scirocco just needed some cams.
the 2.0l, well it needs a whole lot, but the transformation it's made has been well worth it.
p.s. sorry for the rant.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

haha, I actually created a post about rating against 1.8t people, if we want NA power or FI power its just fun for us, yea a 1.8t is got more power but we have ingenuity.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2679262
Back On Topic............................










_Modified by ejg3855 at 9:56 AM 7-24-2006_


----------



## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: (domin4nt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *domin4nt* »_If i'm reading what you said correctly then, the difference is this. ITB's are individual throttle bodies. It's not just 1 TB, like we currently have on our car, but instead 4 TB's. Thus taking in a lot more air at once. With the SRI and no ITB's you've still got only 1 TB taking in air. With the SRI and ITB's you're eliminating more of that air restriction. 
I hope that made sense.

It's not as simple as that. The motor is not taking in air through every cylinder at once. In theory the plenum should be able to supply enough air to any one cylinder until it can be replenished by the single TB. It still isn't as simple as what I just said but I am no Mechanical Engineer so if anyone else wants to chime in on this topic feel free


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (bajan01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bajan01* »_
The motor is not taking in air through every cylinder at once. In theory the plenum should be able to supply enough air to any one cylinder until it can be replenished by the single TB. It still isn't as simple as what I just said but I am no Mechanical Engineer so if anyone else wants to chime in on this topic feel free









This is why I am puzzled as to the big difference in gains between a SRI and the ITB's.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

http://www.usrallyteam.com/itb.html


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (DriveVW4Life)*

I have nothing against the ABA, just the abomination that is the mk4 2.0, and all the whining about what codes it throws and how they want to use a 260 cam with this. learn to live with your check engine light and don't dump money into a heavey car to make it fast. you want unique, I saw a Dasher coupe today, diesel no less, find one of those and put an ABA, ITB's and a 288+ cam in it, that would be a blast.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

now heres a fellow 2.0er bashing other 2.0ers. To each his own is what I say to you. this post is about a product not your opinion. BTW you cant "live" with a CEL and pass inspection.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_http://www.usrallyteam.com/itb.html


So a larger smoother air flow combined with more fuel produces that large of a gain ? I guess if only 1 cylinder draws air in at a time I dont see how the air flow is that much of a gain. If a SRI improves flow cant the air be replenished fast enough with the SRI. I see how air flow would be smoother than the SRI but not sure how more volume is obtained?


----------



## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_So a larger smoother air flow combined with more fuel produces that large of a gain ? I guess if only 1 cylinder draws air in at a time I dont see how the air flow is that much of a gain. If a SRI improves flow cant the air be replenished fast enough with the SRI. I see how air flow would be smoother than the SRI but not sure how more volume is obtained?


with itbs, each combustion chamber has its own source of incoming air.
the runners are also shorter, and more direct, resulting in more efficient high-rpm air flow. 
depending on the application, as a result of the increase intake velocity at high-rpms, you could lose low-end grunt.
the tunabilty of the intake trumpts is also nice because they can be custom fabbed to different cams and other engine work. 
this helps better fine tune where the power really kicks in.
to keep it simple:
if you're never going to get past 'basic' bolt-ons, don't go itb.
itbs are only truely worth it with significant headwork and a nice hot cam.
i've had a HKK sri for about a year now and it's great for my setup. 
(hkk sri, mkIV exhaust manifold, tt exhaust, mild ported OBD-I head, tt 268*)


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (Vamped)*

You guys have to remember that with this setup, EQUAL amounts of air will be coming into each cylinder, and not slightly leaning out a cylinder or two like the stock intake manifolds might do. That alone is a big difference for tuning capabilities, where as before you had to find a happy medium for all 4 cylinders to get a 'good tune'.


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: ITB project that was posted (rallyferret)*

ttt


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

yup ttt


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

Just out of curiousity, any idea how well this type of setup would do on a turbo application?


_Modified by abawp at 7:55 PM 8-3-2006_


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_Just out of curiousity, any idea how well this type of setup would do on a turbo application?

_Modified by abawp at 7:55 PM 8-3-2006_

It would help. but not enough to justify the cost plus the turbo. The benefits of this setup are best realized NA.


----------



## 2.0LGtiPwr (Mar 23, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

How about maintenance issue?. What cautions would need to be taken if one decides to get an itb setup??


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

No updates, were gettting restless!


----------



## domin4nt (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (Vamped)*

Yes we are!


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

need more 2.0 pron


----------



## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (Vamped)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vamped* »_No updates, were gettting restless!










im getting restless as well....working about 18-20 hours a day, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, just hope its not a train








i should have the test car here next weekend to bolt it on and fire it up. racing this weekend and trying to find spark on another project car ( sooooo close to being done







) 
i need the 36 hour day ASAP!!!!


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

take a ride to the top.


----------



## domin4nt (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

TTT for the impatient


----------



## elmer fud (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (hkk735)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_never assume








800-1000 for the setup similar to what you see above ( we are making our own tb's, not using the bike itb's for production pieces, going modular)

what kind of chip/chips will be avalble, I am planing on running solid lifters and a good sized solid cam in my ABA, so if the tuneing is for say the normal 276 hydro cam, I would expect to have probblems, I would be super in to running Tb's on my car, but not if I have to run it off my own management, right now I plan on useing <evil> CIS </evil> to run my motor and use a custom plenom , and you might think im nuts but I have had good luck with cis in the past. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif anyway running tb's in to the cis plate would be







so thats not a option. but I have all the wireing to set the car up with full obd2 wireing and if there was a chip avalble i would be all over this set up at those prices. 

just imgine tb's big cam profile with big lift, port and polisheds head, headers, and a low ratio trans with a dif. oh and it would be in my bunny......mugggghhhg . 
anyway good luck with the kit I think its a great deal.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (elmer fud)*

Their original ITB demo vid was on a 16V (i believe) Rabbit... the sound was awsome, and the performance was top notch.. I've also seen them on high compression NA 20V Rabbit and a Polo setup. Monster performance for the CC's.


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

ttt


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

I buy my MK3 in Jan... so I will certainly be saving up to get this. For 800-1000 you really can not beat this item.
I assume all the head work needs to be done before you can use this???
BTW any news from USRT or HKK yet?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_I buy my MK3 in Jan... so I will certainly be saving up to get this. *Make sure you buy an OBDI then.*
For 800-1000 you really can not beat this item. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I assume all the head work needs to be done before you can use this??? *technically it will work. BUT, the head needs to be ported to see really the best gains.*
BTW any news from USRT or HKK yet? *Nope.*


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

Great info Travis... Proving your mettle again!


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Great info Travis... Proving your mettle again!









Im still waiting for someone to







this:

_Quote »_I buy my MK3 in Jan... so I will certainly be saving up to get this. *Make sure you buy an OBDI then.*


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

I would say OBDII is better overall, but OBDI internals are better. Basically, it's all about where you plan to go with the car. If a stage 1 or 2 turbo kit is in your future, then OBDII may be preferable... If you are going higher boost, OBDI for it's stronger internals... If high revs and a large lift cam are the idea, OBDI heads are much better equiped.
It's basically all about where you want to go with it.
And yes, Travis, you know your junk.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Nah man, nothing to do with forged internals.
I'll give ya a hint.....TPS location...OBDI vs OBDII.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

I actually was going to ask about the 'mettle' comment... inside joke?
And I didn't realize that the MK3 had two different... I don't even know WHAT they are... what is an OBD? why are there 2 of them? and why are you saying the first is better than the second?
Shew... I'm glad I got that over with.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_And I didn't realize that the MK3 had two different... I don't even know WHAT they are... what is an OBD? why are there 2 of them? and why are you saying the first is better than the second?

OBD is *O*n *B*oard *D*iagnostics, and are listed as either I or II. What it dictates is typically emissions equipment, and can be easily distinguished since OBD-I equipped cars only come with 1 oxygen sensor (located somewhere before the catalytic converter, usually in either the exhaust manifold or downpipe), while OBD-II equipped vehicles have two oxygen sensors (the first in the same location as the OBD-I car, the second is at the outlet of the catalytic converter usually). There are other differences specifically dealing with emissions equipment. OBD-II equipped vehicles must contain gasoline vapors more efficiently and must therefore detect any leaks in the system that fuel vapors can escape. Also, I believe most, if not all vehicles from 1996 on must have some sort of smog pump to heat up the catalyst during cold starts to better burn off any harmful emissions (CO, NOx, unburnt hydrocarbons). This is also where the second oxygen sensor comes into play as it can tell how efficient the catalytic converter is and upon failure of the cat, can quickly be fixed.
The reason mkIII VW's can be either OBD-I or OBD-II equipped is because legislation mandated that in 1996, all cars must switch to this new form of emissions control. Since the mkIII era VWs ranged from 1993 to the early part of 1999, we get these two variations in parts. There are several other differences between these VW's during this change, most notably the head and bottom end. IIRC, obd-I heads have slightly larger intake ports (good for flow) and dual valve springs, obd-II has slightly smaller ports (good for higher velocity for low rpm torque) that also induce swirling for better mixture along with single valve spring valvetrain. Not to forget the bottom end, OBD-I cars came with a forged crank (and highly debated forged rods), while OBD-II cars came with a cast crank.

_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Nah man, nothing to do with forged internals.
I'll give ya a hint.....TPS location...OBDI vs OBDII.


Not sure if its exactly because of the TPS location, but doesn't it have something to do with the ISV being integrated with the TB in OBD-II cars while the ISV in OBD-I cars is external of the TB?


_Modified by abawp at 7:10 AM 8-25-2006_


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

OBD = On Board Diagnostics. 93-95 production year ABA's were OBDI, while 96-up were OBDII. There were a lot of parts changes when they switched from OBDI to OBDII. Some are like what Jeff wrote about...forged internals. A Search will fill you in on the rest of whats different.
But one of the changes betweent the two were the throttlebodies. When they went to OBDII, they put the throttle position sensor crap _in_ the throttle body. The OBDI's have their idle controlled by the external ISV. 
The way I see it, I dont know how its possible to make the ITBs work on anything OBDII and up...because as far as I know, there's no way to get the TPS to work. But then again, who am I to say...I could very well be wrong.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Wow two great reponses... I feel like I'm convinced that the earlier OBD1 is better.
Good point on the TPS also. I'm sure they could figure it out but I can see that making an ODB2 kit more expensive.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_
Good point on the TPS also. I'm sure they could figure it out but I can see that making an ODB2 kit more expensive.

All Im saying is, OBDII folks, dont hold your breath.....


----------



## elmer fud (Aug 5, 2003)

tdogg74- any response on custom chips, like I was saying I would love to run itb's on my car but I dont want to be stuck with only one cam option, I know that tuneing with itb's involves matching runner lenglths with cam profies and such. 
I have been building my obd1 head head up as a solid lifter setup with a 272 high lift solid cam, im asuming that this itb set up would be make for say a 270 hydro cam, and the chip and tuneing would be based around this, but would it run my soild set up aswell.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

this ITB setup will come with a custom chip to be able to run the whole system with Motronic software.


----------



## urogolf (Dec 10, 2000)

just to keep this up
this is awesome that you guys are researching/ planning this
heres a vid of my rabbit on gsxr1000 itbs as crack for the addicts








CLICK THE PICTURE

keep in mind this was on a windy road with blind corners and hills and some traffic so there was respect given to other drivers and the "road" itself 
enjoy


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

I think that sounds awesome!


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

..............Give us something, anything!


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

yawn...


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Keep your eyes open...


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

I was wondering if anyone talked to them personally again... The last I read from HKK they had sai it would be anywhere from 800-1000! Which is amazing... is this still the estimated cost?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Talked to him a couple days ago. You guys still need to be a little patient. Its almost done and just needs chip tuning. This isnt his #1 priority right now. Just keep being patient.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Patient... I am because I don't have the freakin money right now anyway! hahaha


----------



## 2.0LGtiPwr (Mar 23, 2002)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

WOW, YOU TO!!^^


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

begging for more info on FI alternitive!!!!


----------



## vasillalov (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

True!
It also looks like that one can still use the ITBs with a turbo since the SRI manifold will be there.
I wonder how much of a difference that would make in a Turbo 2.0 setup.
Also, the MK4 I have the feeling that the release for MK4s with drive-by-wire will be delayed since the throttle body is electronically actuated and there is no throttle cable.
Us, AEG guys, will be happy! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (vasillalov)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vasillalov* »_True!
It also looks like that one can still use the ITBs with a turbo since the SRI manifold will be there.
I wonder how much of a difference that would make in a Turbo 2.0 setup.
Also, the MK4 I have the feeling that the release for MK4s with drive-by-wire will be delayed since the throttle body is electronically actuated and there is no throttle cable.
Us, AEG guys, will be happy! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Believe it or not, ITBs aren't really a large asset to turbo applications... since the air is getting forced it there, having a super short runner and higher air volume intake isn't going to increase the power that much.


----------



## rallyferret (May 23, 2006)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif still patiently waiting on these


----------



## IEatBabies (Sep 22, 2006)

*Re: (rallyferret)*

thats pretty orgasmic-sounding, but i wish sponsorships were givin that just mailed you money every month.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

Just so you guys know, USRT is still focused on offering ITB kits for the various 4cyl VW/Audi engines. Unfortunately, we have been forced to rearrange our production team a bit. This has delayed kit introduction. The good news is that the constant emails, IMs, and forum posts about it have shown us that there is a market for these bits. Thus, we've raised the bar and will offer a kit that is even cleaner and generally higher-end than the prototypes we've built to date.


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .........just keep us posted, cause I need something soon, and I dont want to end up buying that Kinetic kit!


----------



## domin4nt (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (Vamped)*

I know this was already discussed, but I figured since it's been a couple weeks i'd bring it up again. Have you figured out yet if we're going to be able to run this OBDII? Without any major issues. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (domin4nt)*

There's really no reason why we can't produce an OBDII hardware kit -especially since we've gone back to the drawing board to custom-manufacture a greater proportion of the components ourselves. The right TPS solution has yet to be worked out, though.


----------



## domin4nt (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Well that's great to hear! I'll keep my eyes and ears open for updates from you guys. Keep up the amazing work over there Scott.,


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_There's really no reason why we can't produce an OBDII hardware kit -especially since we've gone back to the drawing board to custom-manufacture a greater proportion of the components ourselves. The right TPS solution has yet to be worked out, though.



tps sensor, please explain how this is connected to the TB's? I thought it had to do with fueling and spark ? But I am a noob so.


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

Since you have a drive by cable setup (the gas pedal is physically connected to the TB by a cable) and fuel injection, the computer has to have a way to know where your foot is in order to match that airflow through the TB with the correct amount of fuel from the injectors...
So, the Throttle Position Sensor is used to tell the computer where the throttle plate is positioned in % of open... They call it "Throttle Angle Percentage". The only real efficient and cheap way to do this is with a sensor attatched to the Throttle plate. The OBDII TB also uses a Stepper Motor to control idle by opening the throttle plate in small incriments to allow more or less air into the engine when the car is idling and adjust level of idle.
That's the issue, mainly, is the OBDII TB has the TPS and IAC (Idle Air Control) motor's incorporated together. Makes an aftermarket TPS difficult to use, but necessity is the mother of invention, and USRT may be able to use that integrated motor design to use the ITB's as Idle Air Control as well!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

Any updates..............


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (Vamped)*

Patience, younga grassahoppa! Do *not* expect weekly updates or anything close. We're got a way to go before we can discuss final production. Not only must a design be finished, we have to select a fabrication partner, determine pricing, decide on a marketing plan, need to arrange for project financing, etc. Banging out one-offs and prototypes is easy. We've already seen those floating around. Mass production, however, is an entirely different ball of wax. We're working 12 - 14 hour days as it is!


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

12-14 hour days and it's still not done!!! WTF??
Just kidding guys. Keep up the good work! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

let the powers that be have the time to make it right, so us MKIV owners can enjoy also. 
any new teaser info?


----------



## toeknee808 (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

sorry for my ignorance but could debris get into the motor when you use this setup?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (toeknee808)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_any new teaser info?

Well... we're going to start with the 16v and OBD1 Mk3 crossflow engines first. That's because the idle stabilization and legal aspects are much simpler. Next comes the Mk3 OBD2 because the market is much larger than the Mk4 crowd. You guys will get what's coming last. How's that for "teaser info".









_Quote, originally posted by *toeknee808* »_sorry for my ignorance but could debris get into the motor when you use this setup?

That's a guarantee if you don't run air filters! That's a big no no. In our form of racing, an engine would be toast within minutes of running without protection. So, our kits will surely be supplied with them. The easiest way to go is with slip on "sock" filters. The most power will probably be made with a tuned air box. We've got all that in mind for y'all. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## toeknee808 (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

cool thanks! and i wasnt questioning your product, just clarifying for myself cause i know nothing haha. and i have another question how would this work on a drive by wire engine? scince there are now 4 throttle body's. 


_Modified by toeknee808 at 3:32 PM 10-16-2006_


----------



## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Well... we're going to start with the 16v and OBD1 Mk3 crossflow engines first. That's because the idle stabilization and legal aspects are much simpler. Next comes the Mk3 OBD2 because the market is much larger than the Mk4 crowd. You guys will get what's coming last. How's that for "teaser info".











we are used to it we wait we always do, keep up the good work.
from my understanding the struggle with MKIV is to get the ECU software aspect of it right. is that correct? Hardware seems similar to ABA but hell idk.


----------



## smirnoff3black (Apr 17, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

is this product going to be out before spring?


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

*Re: (smirnoff3black)*

just wondering if it is still going to be in the $800-$1000 range. If it goes into the $2600 range like all the other itb kits, I'm screwed


----------



## smirnoff3black (Apr 17, 2006)

any updates?


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

Damn, I nearly forgot all about this thread..........I was excited at first, but now I think it's a pipe dream!


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Vamped)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vamped* »_Damn, I nearly forgot all about this thread..........I was excited at first, but now I think it's a pipe dream!









No, don't sell the twins short, they are still working on it, but unfortunately other projects and business politics do take up a lot of time. They are as busy as ever and being in a pretty similar position time-wise, I totally understand where they are at...
Don't give up, I'm confident that there will be an ITB setup in production next year, cause i'm still planning a kit for production. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (lowdowndirtydubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lowdowndirtydubs* »_just wondering if it is still going to be in the $800-$1000 range. If it goes into the $2600 range like all the other itb kits, I'm screwed

If it goes into the $2,600 range you might as well get twin-screwed, lol


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_Don't give up, I'm confident that there will be an ITB setup in production next year.

ITB Wars: A New Hope! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Vamped)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vamped* »_
ITB Wars: A New Hope! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I wouldn't call it war... more like motivation... Besides, I'm not in competition, i'm a friend.


----------



## Vamped (Jan 2, 2003)

Bringing this back.........USRT.........any updates?


----------



## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (Vamped)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vamped* »_Bringing this back.........USRT.........any updates?

They've forsaken us 8V guys... don't hold your breath.


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (ABF Jeff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABF Jeff* »_
They've forsaken us 8V guys... don't hold your breath.


...._no_, they haven't.


----------



## HCClubPrez (Oct 27, 2005)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

Just got off the phone with Scott at USRT.......this summer's gonna be hella fun!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

yyyup.


----------



## crackershack99 (Jan 20, 2006)

god I hope this happens. I have been reading this post for quite some time.


----------



## 2.0LGtiPwr (Mar 23, 2002)

*Re: (crackershack99)*

Patiently waiting ........
Scott, how are things looking for us AEG folk?


----------



## gopher11 (Nov 24, 2004)

*Re: (2.0LGtiPwr)*

DEAD?


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (gopher11)*

wow, 16 months.


----------



## SAATR (Oct 3, 2008)

I think it's safe to say that the ball has been dropped, buried, and long since turned to dust.


----------



## gopher11 (Nov 24, 2004)

they should probably take it off their website


----------

