# 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step



## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

All pics can be found here:

https://plus.google.com/photos/1023...4377177201?banner=pwa&authkey=CLLQuM2wwNflnQE

I will soon be installing a turbo and will try to document everything and list out all the parts and costs for those interested in doing the same thing. I'll take pics of all parts soon (waiting for some to arrive still). I already am running standalone fuel injection so I didn't include anything related to that. The cost for my fuel injection setup is right around $1500. Here is my list for the turbo specific pieces - some parts are new, some are used:

$200.00 welded log turbo manifold 
$150.00 intercooler
$201.00 2.5 Polished Aluminum Piping Kit
$100.00 downpipe
$14.75 4 bolt downpipe flange
$20.00 3 bolt flange for 16v cat
$23.00 3' oil feed line - an 4 + m10x1.0 to 4 AN adapter
$42.00 oil return line an 10
$40.00 oil pan with an 10 drain fitting
$40.00 2 x m10x1.0 t-adapter, oil pressure gauge, npt adapter
$100.00 tial 35mm wastegate w/ red spring
$15.00 valve seat 35mm tial
$11.90 boost controller
$139.00 ARP Head Stud Kit: 204-4702
$60.00 3 aba head gaskets (037 103 383 N)
$90.00 forge 007 bypass valve
$550.00 Garrett T3/T4E .48/3 50 trim compressor
$22.00 t3/t4 oil supply flange and flow restrictor 4 AN + gasket
$22.00 t3/t4 oil drain flange to 10 AN + gasket
$15.00 gasket for T3/T4 Turbo 2.5" exhaust downpipe flange
$15.00 gasket for T3/T4 Turbo exhaust inlet
$75.00 Scirocco upper intake
$65.00 exhaust gaskets, exhaust nuts, studs
$21.00 two 3/8" aluminum npt bungs
$14.23 1.5” wastegate flexible exhaust tube
$10.86 two - 1.5" 45 Deg Elbow No Legs, BW, 304L SS, Mill ID/OD
$8.25 1-1/2" OD Tube, Welded, A269, .065 Wall, 304L SS, Mill ID, Bright Annealed OD
$15.96 2.75" cone filter
$11.42 2.5" 45 Deg Elbow No Legs, BW, 304L SS, Mill ID/OD
$11.25 2.5" OD Tube, Welded, .065 Wall, A269, 304L SS, Mill ID, Bright Annealed OD
$6.00 spark plugs - ngk bkr7e
$15.00 4mm silicon vacuum hose (12 ft)
$4.00 an10 male bung for oil pan
$20.00 an10 stainless braided hose (2 ft)
$20.00 an10 fire sleeve (4 ft)
$103.00 techtonics shore 65 front mount
$8.00 high temp paint for downpipe
$35.00 header wrap
$70.00 battery box
$10.00 battery terminals and connectors
$44.00 23 ft of 1 gauge wire
$46.00 3 aluminum 2.5" 90 degree elbows
$15.00 npt fittings and small 4 port manifold for vacuum supply
$27.00 2.5" -> 2" 45 degree silicone reducer

$2,526.62 Turbo components subtotal


I am hoping to help others and also ask for some help when I get stuck along the way. More posts to come in the next couple days.

recent config for msns:

http://cr-web.info/ms/recent-turbo-config.msq


The 2.5" Polished Aluminum Piping Kit includes:

2 Pieces of Polished Aluminum Straight Pipes
2 Pieces of Polished Aluminum 45 Deg Pipes
2 Pieces of Polished Aluminum 75 Deg Pipes
2 Pieces of Polished Aluminum 90 Deg Pipes
6 Pieces of Silicon Hoses(Blue, Red, or Black)
2 x 90 deg elbow Silicon hose (Blue color only)
16 Matching Stainless Steel T Clamps

extra items ordered:

two 2.5" hump hoses $12.00 
two 2.5" straight couplers $8.00 
eight 2.5" t-clamps $16.00 
two 2.75" straight coupler $8.00 
four 2.75" t-clamps $8.00 
one 2.75" 180 degree U pipe $16.00 
one 2.75" air intake pipe $18.00 
all black hoses $5.00 
one 2" t-clamp $2.00


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## qwikxr (Feb 9, 2003)

that .48AR turbine is gonna be a quick spooler on the 16v








ricky in Winchester


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## mjleamy (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

Good luck on this and I am looking forward to your build diary ...


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (mjleamy)*

Bunch of parts pics just uploaded to picasa. There are a few more packages I am waiting on then I'll get started sometime this week. I will be using the stock 9a engine with 2 head gaskets. The engine has about 223000 miles, but I don't want to tear into it now to do a rebuild. I think the head was rebuilt around 160000 miles, but I doubt the block was touched. If I decide to make a lot more power I'll likely just get an aba block, rebuild it, then have an 8.5 compression ratio. I am more worried about my transmission than my engine at this point. I do have a Corrado vr6 so I could transplant the transmission into my Jetta but then I would have to swap out the hydraulic clutch, shifter box w/cables, pedal cluster. More than I want to do at this time I suppose.
I did install an oil pressure gauge t'ed into the oil pressure warning swith today and found the pressure at 30-40 psi at 1100 rpm idle. It would go up to 80 psi as I revved up the engine. So it looks like my pump won't need to be replaced.


_Modified by chadr at 12:32 AM 6-10-2007_


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## toyotec (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

You can use the mechanical clutch push rod from a Seat as I have done so no need for pedal box removal.


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## NorthernGTI (Oct 26, 2005)

Kind of messed how parts plus the little things add up into a big bill..
What tranny are you using for this?


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (NorthernGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NorthernGTI* »_What tranny are you using for this? 

I'll be using a the stock trans to begin with.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

The parts collecting for the turbo install is still underway but progressing nicely. I just placed one more order this morning for a some 1.5" and 2.5" stainless steel mandrel bends, straight tubing, and exhaust flex coupling, larger air intake filter. Most of this stuff will be used to fabricate the wastegate exhaust tube and fit the downpipe. I cut off the ends from the downpipe in the picasa pic album because I am using different flanges at both the exhaust outlet on the turbo and the connection to the cat.
I should be getting a box of stuff from Techtonics today or monday and also I am hoping to get my huge assortment of aluminum intake tubing and couplers, clamps, etc. very soon.
In this past week I've probably received 7 different packages. I've been practicing my welding a little bit as well.
The actual turbo install will have to begin immiately after June 30th because I am taking the car to a track event and I don't want to be pushing it without a good deal of time tuning and street driving. More pictures of stuff will go up late next week when I should have received all parts needed to complete the install.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

I began working on the car today right after buying a 10' x 10' shade canopy so I could work outside in the middle of the day without dying. I would use the garage but I have another 5+ year project sitting in there taking up the available space. The head is now off the car and I'll clean it up, install the two stock metal head gaskets and arp studs/nuts tomorrow. There is a little crud that has accumulated on the top of the pistons, but of course it was expected. With a scraper it comes off very easily. New spark plugs (ngk bcp7ev) were replaced 25k miles ago with the proper gap and now all plugs are at .040, some are closer to .045. What are the effects of such a large spark gap? I didn't notice any misfires. I get lazy with some of the non-critical maintenance I suppose








back to the important stuff...
80 lbs/ft is what I've read others use with stacked gaskets + arp hardware using the arp lube. Some say they have problems with leaks, others swear there are no problems and no head gasket sealant is required. Any suggestions on this?
After the head is bolted back on the car I'll complete the downpipe. I've received a few more items last month that I don't have pics posted of yet. Looks for more pics by Monday.


_Modified by chadr at 3:20 AM 7-8-2007_


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

the head is back on now, some pics added to picasa. What direction do these gaskets face? 
http://picasaweb.google.com/ch...78962


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

Ok, made a quick phone call to the place where I bought the turbo gaskets the other day and they explained that the direction does not matter. The turbo is bolted up to the car now, I've removed my tt cams and installed the stock ones, and installed the oil pan with drain fitting for the turbo. 
My valve cover has been leaking quite a bit of oil so I installed a new one along with a camshaft seal and the two new 1/2 circle seals. This time I used no rtv sealant on the gaskets (as recommended by those with non-leaking 16v valve covers







) and I made sure to clean all surfaces well. I torqued down the bolts to 87 in-lb as the manual lists. Since using the torque wrench this time, I now realize that I was never tightening these bolts down enough and maybe that is why I had so many leaks. 
Next up is the fabication of the downpipe or mounting of the intercooler.


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## beercity (Aug 16, 2006)

nice buildup...looks almost identical to the build im doing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

Today I started trying to cut and fit my downpipe. I do have a flex joint that is going to be about 1 inch away from the lower downpipe flange that mounts to the cat. Should I position the downpipe so there is more clearance above or below? The closest point is directly above the steering rack. What way will the engine twist under load?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (chadr)*

the engine will swing back under load, so everything hung off the back of it will move down. also remember though that it will move forward under engine braking...of course with stiff mounts were talking less than .5" or so of total travel typically


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## Aladinsane07 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

How's the progress? 
TTT


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (Aladinsane07)*

The downpipe is nearly complete now. I just finished up fitting and welding the flex joint to the downpipe. I need someone to help me out for a couple more minutes so we can position, mark, and tack weld the turbo flange on the downpipe. As anyone will tell you the fitting and cleaning of the material takes up most of the time. That is very true. I had everything marked for tack welding earlier today but then I cleaned off my marks on accident just minutes before I was about to get it done. So I had to call back my helper (dad) and he came over about 9:30 tonight to help out once again.
Some more pics are added to picasa and here is one to show a little of my temporary work area
http://picasaweb.google.com/ch...muKDI











_Modified by chadr at 11:29 PM 7-14-2007_


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (chadr)*

I completed the fitting and welding of the downpipe yesterday. This morning I removed the manifold and turbo from the engine so that I could fit and weld the dumptube into the downpipe. i also got a few bolts and spring washers today to attach the oil inlet and outlet flange on the turbo. The flanges I purchased from ebay had metric hardware included and my turbo used 5/16 x 1" and 3/8 x 1" bolts instead. 
here is the downpipe so far


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (chadr)*

The welding of the downpipe and dump tube really is done now (picasa pics updated). I've run a wire wheel all over the pipe to clean it up. This weekend I'll paint it with high temp header paint and wrap the downpipe to keep as much heat out of the engine compartment as possible.
I installed the timing belt today, connected a few coolant hoses that I had removed, installed the exhausted manifold (for the last time) and changed out the oil filter. I will get started on the aluminum intake tubes soon. I ran a few beads of aluminum for the first time the other night and it seems easy enough anyway. I don't really think that much of the tubing will need to be welded anyway with all of the connectors I have available.
The turbo bumps into the passenger side rear corner of the intake manifold. Is it common to ground down the or cut off a section of the intake for clearance?


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (chadr)*

Progress is a little slow. Got the downpipe painted a few days ago, wrapped it yesterday. Waiting for the header wrap to dry thoroughly for another day or two then need to paint the wrap. The drain fitting for the turbo was placed in a terrible spot on the pan I purchased so I will weld my own fitting on my original pan and sell the other one (it may be good for cars without the rear engine mount in the way).
The an-10 drain line is also too short so I removed the earl's ends and ordered up some new hose. At the same time I ordered about 12 ft of 4mm silicone vacuum hose and 4 ft of "fire sleeve" from http://www.bakerprecision.com/insulat.htm. I'll use this to cover the section of oil drain line closest to the exhaust manifold. Will also wrap the wires that pass on the firewall near the turbo with this stuff.
Ordered a techtonics hd shore 65 front mount since mine is leaking yellow fluid. Oh, and I bought some ngk bkr7e plugs yesterday too.
Next week I won't work on the car, but maybe I'll get it running sometime in mid August.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (chadr)*

Some more work on the car today... painted the downpipe wrap, welded a new an-10 oil drain flange on my old oil pan, installed the oil pan, made up the oil drain line with the new braided an-10 hose, installed the downpipe and turbo, installed all gaskets and snugged up all bolts for the final time I hope. 
The oil drain flange was welded at an upward angle to allow the drain line to run closer to the block. Its clears the axle by about 1". If the flange is welded perpendicular to the oil pan the drain line will hit or be too close to the axle. Then you'd probably need to secure the line to the block somehow.
The ceramic exhaust donut broke in half so I need to order up yet another part - unless somehow has one spare they wanna ship to me for cheap? I'll get the upper manifold bolted up next and work on the intake and intercooler piping.


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## zylinderkopf (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: (chadr)*

enjoying the progress, looks like a great project. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (zylinderkopf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zylinderkopf* »_enjoying the progress, looks like a great project. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

hey - thanks, just when I thought nobody cared







These 16vt installs are so common I guess there isn't much feedback on em these days.
Got the new front engine mount installed and cut/grinded the upper intake manifold to clear the turbo. The upper manifold has about 1/4" clearance right at the point where the 1/8 npt pressure port on the compressor housing is. So I am gonna get a plug to put in that spot, then drill/tap another 1/8 npt hole on the side of the housing that will be closest to the firewall.
I also cut up about 6 sections of 2.5" round 16 gauge aluminum tubing so I can practice welding this stuff. Today I am going to the dealer to pick up the new exhaust gasket donut - its was only about $11 instead of an insane amount like I was thinking it would be.


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## rocconut (Feb 20, 2004)

*Re: (chadr)*

Chad this looks like it is coming along nicely but I keep getting error on page when I try to view your pictures. Is the site having problems?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (rocconut)*

I just checked and see the pics on picasa ok using the link on the first page. are you able to see the few pics that are inline in the previous posts?


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (chadr)*

Today's efforts:
- posted a few recent pics on picasa
- chopped the upper left corner from the intake manifold to make it much easier to route the compressor outlet forward instead of upward. I need to find a piece of aluminum to weld back on there.
- removed the front bumper and the plastic air deflection thing that rests under the radiator and ac coil. Even with the big intercooler I think I'll be able to get it to fit fine just trimming a little plastic off the lower air vents in the bumber. The routing of the 2.5" tubing may be another challenge. It looks like I'll need to move my battery to the trunk to make room. feedback on this? 
- can someone share some ideas on mounting brackets for the intercooler? There isn't much to fasten it to down there. 
- installed the new exhaust donut gasket, also replaced a broken exhaust hanger. I have to do this at least once a year it seems like. Maybe I should get the ones from tt with chains in them?


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## rocconut (Feb 20, 2004)

*Re: (chadr)*

Check with sparknock and see how he mounted his intercooler. We seen his car last weekend and he had it mounted in front some how but not noticeable unless you really looked for it.


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## jgti (Nov 17, 2001)

*Re: (rocconut)*

Great work..


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (jgti)*

The core is mounted, bumper trimmed up, and my intake manifold is welded back up. I need to get a 45 degree aluminum elbow to weld to the compressor outlet. 
Oh, more pics posted. Curious as to how many people are checking out the pics and comments on picasa as I update them?


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (chadr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chadr* »_The core is mounted, bumper trimmed up, and my intake manifold is welded back up. I need to get a 45 degree aluminum elbow to weld to the compressor outlet. 
Oh, more pics posted. Curious as to how many people are checking out the pics and comments on picasa as I update them? 

I checked em out, good progress http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Not sure how I feel about cutting the plenum for that runner, I understand how tight the clearance is, but was there another way?


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_Not sure how I feel about cutting the plenum for that runner, I understand how tight the clearance is, but was there another way?

i may have been able to weld a 45 degree elbow on the compressor outlet and clear the manifold and the hood, but I just figured this way would give plenty of clearance. I've seen many manifolds slope toward the last runner like this so I thought it couldn't be too bad. I noticed that the scirocco manifold already has a smaller plenum than the stock 2.0l manifold. I don't need max hp just yet. If I get to that point maybe I'll make up a short runner of my own as I've seen others do.
after a quick search on ebay I found one of these to save me from having to weld an elbow on the compressor outlet. The cost for the 45 degree silicone adapter is about the same as the aluminum elbow too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (chadr)*

so i got the aluminum elbow from mcmaster.com yesterday and I realized the diameter was too small. I misread the specs. I decided to just run 2" tube straight off the compressor with a 2" straight silicon coupler for now. Here are some of the things accomplished in the past few days:
- bolted down the compressor housing
- ran the oil feed to the turbo
- modified (cut, bent, welded) a rear upper manifold bracket from my stock manifold to fit the scirocco manifold and clear the turbo housing
- put the injectors back in and bolted down the fuel rail
- bolted down the upper intake manifold
- ordered an additional 3 90 degree aluminum elbows for the intercooler tubing. I only need two more but one extra won't hurt. To keep the flow smoothest I don't want to run any silicone adapters like 45, 90, etc. Don't know how much that matters, but I'll keep the silicone couplers for joining straight sections only. Hey, I spent all that money on the welding equipment and supplies so I need to use it








- I will move the battery to the trunk to make plenty of room for the intercooler tubing. Ordered an aluminum battery box from this guy on ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...US:11
- need to get the battery cable and connectors 
- I may decide to get a g60 throttle body or I'll have to get a 3" to 2.5" silicone reducer to connect the tubing to the throttle body.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (chadr)*

- bought 23 ft of 1 gauge welding cable for about $40. This stuff is very flexible. punched a hole in the firewall, put in a grommet and routed the wire under the carpet from the front of the car all the way to the trunk. 
- cut a nice size rectangle out of the sheet metal where the battery was. Before doing this I removed the vacuum canister and will likely relocate that where the battery was. Now I only need one 90 degree bend on the driver side intercooler routing. If I tried to route the intercooler pipe close to the power steering reservior then two 90 deg bends would be needed. Now I only have one 90 to get the tube into the engine bay.
- welded intake tube onto throttle body flange, welded 3/8 npt bung in tube for air intake temp sensor
- installed 4 port vacuum manifold made for air tools (bought at harbor freight for .99). Each port has a barbed fitting screwed in. This just makes the vacuum routing a little more tidy. I'll add a pic of this soon. Ran silicone vacuum hose to the megasquirt unit sitting under the seat. Replaced all vacuum line with new silicone vacuum hose.
- plugged some wiring back into the head, oil senders, distributor. Tried to arrange the megasquirt and wideband wiring so that I can wrap everything with one short run of the high temp protecting sleeve
- ordered a 1" x 12" x 16 gauge aluminum tube from mcmaster.com for the bypass valve. I would have bought one locally but home depot didn't have it, plus the shipping from mcmaster is only $5. Need to weld a small section somewhere on the boost tube. Don't know exactly where is best. 
- trimmed the bumper just a slight bit more and cut off the front tow hook so the intercooler will sit perfectly level even with the silicone hoses on there. 
- added a few pics


_Modified by chadr at 12:16 AM 8-23-2007_


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (chadr)*

- installed the battery box and completed the wiring. for the positive distribution block in the engine compartment I welded some bolts to a short piece of 1/4" x 1" steel and placed it inside a blue electrical box. still need to fasten this down somehow
- fitted air intake tube and air filter
- bought a 2.5" -> 2" 45 degree silicone adapter to fit on the compressor outlet
- today I worked the intercooler tubing. Tomorrow I'll get the 1" tube for the bypass valve connection in the evening via ups . I've decided this connection will be made about 6" from the throttle body
- more pics added


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

- finished up the passenger side tubing from the compressor to the intercooler
- welded the 1" tube on the intake pipe for the blow off valve, bolted it up to the manifold
-put the dist. cap and wiring back in place, tightened the alternator bolts
should i have an npt fitting tapped directly into the manifold for the vacuum signal to the bypass valve? I have all the vacuum hoses connected to a small distribution block. Is that ok or will the signal be weak, delayed, etc?
the only thing I have remaining to do now is to fit up the driver's side intercooler tube, connect the vacuum line from the bypass valve (the fitting on the valve is too big for the silicone hose I used elsewhere), fill with coolant, make/install a catch can
tomorrow or wednesday I'll start up the car


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## rcdg60 (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

what injection are you using?


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (rcdg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rcdg60* »_what injection are you using?

megasquirt


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

finished up the intercooler tubing on the driver side, filled up the coolant, and started the car up. I let run between 1000 - 2000 on my old fuel and spark maps, then I turned the car off and loaded up the settings I got from valvecovergasket. I bolted the bumper back on after having some plastic repair done on the clips that slide into the front panels ahead of the tires.
I have a 6 psi spring and no boost controller at this point. I drove it around for about 30 minutes and let it build up some boost in a few gears. megasquirt showed about 130 - 140 kpa when I glanced down at one point and my afr was really low about 11 - 12. I don't think I took it past 5k rpm. Its fun knowing how much more power there willl be when i turn the boost up a bit. Already 6 psi feels nice and strong, but what do i know. 
my forge valve is just dumping to the engine bay at this time and it gives off a nice loud whoosh. I'd rather keep this quiet so I'll probably route this back to the intake pipe.
I also hear a slight fluttering sound when I let off the throttle at some points. Its not when I am in boost and let off... its more like when boost may just be coming on and I shift. It sounds like birds fluttering or something similar. Maybe my bypass valve needs a nice strong signal directly off the intake manifold instead of on my vacuum distribution block?
no new pics today, but I'll get some soon


_Modified by chadr at 7:49 PM 8-29-2007_


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

I've added some more pics. I don't have an oil catch can yet so I've just got the crankcase breather hose open and pointed right up close to the hood. I'll take care of that in a few days. I got some 1/4" silicone hose hose and tee fittings to install my manual boost controller, but really I am trying not to turn up the boost yet. It is plenty fast at this point and more power will just make any traffic ticket just that much more costly.


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## Eric 16vT (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

Looks good!
One question for you.. I can see that you left your A/C hooked up in the car. Now earlier in the thread you mentioned the possibility of going to a short runner intake in the future. If you did this, it would require you to move the alternator down to the A/C bracket and as a result you would have to remove the A/C correct?


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (ericT16v)*

I can't do without the ac so if I were to go with a short runner I'll have to make sure it fits with the compressor. I didn't get that far along in my though process since the stock manifold works. I'd like to know if there is really much benefit to a short runner. I mean, with all the power the turbo adds I surely don't need to worry about a little hp here or there.


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## Gede Nimbo (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

Is that turbo footprint the same as the Audi and Porsche units? Being KKK bolt up?? Also where did you souce your manifold??? Everything I've seen on the market is for T3 or T4


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## ACschnitzer23 (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (Gede Nimbo)*

the birds fluttering sound is the bypass valve spring. My car does same thing too, I think you can adjust the tension on the spring or throw in a different spring. Its pretty common to have that sound though


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (ACschnitzer23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ACschnitzer23* »_the birds fluttering sound is the bypass valve spring. My car does same thing too, I think you can adjust the tension on the spring or throw in a different spring. Its pretty common to have that sound though 

Actually the sound went away after i drove the car a couple times. I am thinking the bypass valve was just a little tight at first. The spring I have in there is one for low boost... forgot which one, but I did check it out a couple weeks ago.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (Gede Nimbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gede Nimbo* »_Is that turbo footprint the same as the Audi and Porsche units? Being KKK bolt up?? Also where did you souce your manifold??? Everything I've seen on the market is for T3 or T4








 
The flanges are different for a kkk turbo I believe, but you can get flanges and have someone weld up a manifold to make anything work. I got my manifold from someone on vortex (not one of the reputable guys you've heard about, but some scammer).


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

here is the dyno from a couple days ago. Too bad the torque drops so quick. boost is 9-10 psi, 2.25" cat back tt exhaust, stock intake manifold and cams, 2 aba headgaskets. 








the boost may be dropping because I have the signal tapped into the compressor outlet instead of right before the throttle body. I will move the signal line to see how this helps. I am guessing some of the boost loss is due to the intercooler. 








the afr on my wideband was 12.5 - 12 throughout the pull but the dyno afr reports a little higher than my lc1. Based on what I've read on the innovate tuning website this is normal to have a slight difference in results due to the cat bringing the afr closer to stoich.


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## karlo (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

yo wasup man let me ask u something... i have 91 jetta coupe 2.1l 16v and i was thinking about doing a whole turbo setup but im not sure if i should keep the 16 or swap a vr6 and tubo it.... which one do u think will be faster???


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (karlo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *karlo* »_yo wasup man let me ask u something... i have 91 jetta coupe 2.1l 16v and i was thinking about doing a whole turbo setup but im not sure if i should keep the 16 or swap a vr6 and tubo it.... which one do u think will be faster???

VR for sure..
Fastest VR around here was Brian's from union with 800+, fastest 16vs will put out around 500whp with the current turbos, that would be mine and Todd's, from Elizabeth and Randolph respectivly.
Paul


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## karlo (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (killa)*

watz ur 1/4 mile run ???


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## karlo (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_
VR for sure..
Fastest VR around here was Brian's from union with 800+, fastest 16vs will put out around 500whp with the current turbos, that would be mine and Todd's, from Elizabeth and Randolph respectivly.
Paul

cuz i want my **** to be a daily driver... datz my only car so idk....


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (karlo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *karlo* »_watz ur 1/4 mile run ???


was trying to take it to show and go but the clutch let go, im sure somewhere in the 11's with mid 20's psi. This is a daily driver.


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## karlo (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_

was trying to take it to show and go but the clutch let go, im sure somewhere in the 11's with mid 20's psi. This is a daily driver.

damn datz pretty good.... wat turbo should i throw in my car and how much do u think it will it cost me??


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

latest updates
- Installed a used 14 row racimex oil cooler and turbo volvo sandwich plate with a thermostat. Total cost $100. Previously, my oil temps were getting up to about 240 just cruising on the highway at 75 - 80 mph. After installing the cooler with 250 miles of highway driving back and forth to sebring my temps didn't exceed 200. At the track they were mostly around 230 driving with my foot to the floor everywhere possible. I did see the temp get up to 240 at one point during a 45 minute session. 
- retorqued the arp head studs to 80 lbs because it appeared oil was slightly leaking from the headgasket. Loosened each bolt 1/4 - 1/2 turn and torqued down again.
- moved the wastegate signal line from the compressor housing to an area closer to the throttle body. I did this to see if my boost pressure would remain more stable. When using the compressor for a signal my boost would hit 10 lbs and then go down to 8 lbs about 4500 rpm. I haven't checked the logs yet but it feels much better and the engine feels stronger above 4500 rpm. I'll check the logs and compare sometime soon.
- at the track the graade 12.9 bolts securing the wastegate to the downpipe went missing. I lost the last two hours of track time trying to find some bolts and get it connected again. Now the valve seat is missing too based on how the exhaust sounds and how the boost feels weak. Luckily I ordered one of these semi rare 35mm valve seats already when I thought the used wastegate I purchased was missing it
- I have an 020 diff to install but I don't know what to do with 5th gear. I have a .75 5th for my 16v trans I wanted to install but I realize that will not help at the track. I was constantly taking 4th up to 6500 (I think that was 105 - 110 mph) then shifting into 5th to get another 10+ mph on the higher speed sections. My stock size brakes are keeping me from pushing any more speed than 115 - 120 because I have to slow down very early compared to those cars with strong brakes. My brakes with mintex redbox pads only started to fade at the end of a 45 minute session. They were fine throughout the day. Before my car was turbo'd I was using these pads too and they never faded at the track even with much later braking.
- vented the stock crankcase to the ground instead of pointing up at my hood above the timing belt. Now I can run my heater vent which pulls in outside air and it doesn't stink up the car. Only if I stop at a traffic light does it smell a little. No smell at all while moving.
- welded a hose fitting on the valve cover near the oil cap. A small piece of aluminum was welded inside the valve cover to act as a baffle, but it doesn't help at all. There is a good amount of air coming from the valve cover vent but it isnt' baffled well enough and oil just squirts out. I decided to cap it off for now and determine the best way to put a vent up there. I don't want to use the new beetle cap because it will not fit with my boost tube placement.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (karlo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *karlo* »_
damn datz pretty good.... wat turbo should i throw in my car and how much do u think it will it cost me??

Swing by around the weekend if you want to go for a ride. let the OP continue with his thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

project looks good man, keep it up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (killa)*

The car is running good still, boost is set around 10 psi. However, it appears oil continues to leak from the headgasket. So I've ordered new engine components and will rebuild the engine the short block sometime soon.
je pistons with side and top coating 83mm 9:1
scat rods
new oil pump, windage tray and baffle kit
arp bolts (main caps)
main bearings
engine gasket set (short block only)
water pump with housing
rod bearings
tensioner
intermediate shaft bearing
timing belt
freeze plugs
oil galley plugs
thermostat (stock temp)


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## zylinderkopf (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (chadr)*

is this a pl block or a 9a? i recently picked up a rocco with a 16v thats been sitting for a while and plan on building it into something sweet. how was wiring up the megasquirt, also what version are you using?


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: 1990 jetta - 16v turbo project, step by step (zylinderkopf)*

i have a 9a engine, but a 1.8l 16v would be no different really. I am using ms1 extra. Wiring isn't bad at all, but that all depends on how you feel about soldering, using a meter, etc. Some details are in the links of my sig.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

*engine rebuild finally begins*

So after almost 4 years I've decided to get the rebuild done. I purchased the parts in 2007 but haven't done anything with them. The car has not been run too often in the past couple years due to oil leaking onto the exhaust. The burning oil stink was terrible with the car stopped, but was not a problem while moving. I've removed the engine and will have the block bored/honed, head rebuilt, and hopefully will be done in a few months if I can make some progress now and then.

I started another picasa album if anyone is looking for pics

https://picasaweb.google.com/chadrebuck/1990Vw16vTurboRebuild?authkey=Gv1sRgCI7G-Iny8s6PSQ#


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

The engine is running, but some bad news 


The engine started right up today. I kept it around 2000-2500 for
about 10 minutes while it warmed up. My dad was adding the coolant as
needed to keep it topped off.. there was already about 1.5 gal total
in the system so we didn't need to add much.

After a few min break I started again so we could get coolant flowing
and have the radiator fan kick on.

The coolant temp got above 1/2 but less than 3/4 so I decided to shut
it down to figure out why the fan wasn't on.

Fan started a min or two after shutting off the car. So I don't think
it was overheated at all, but....

Coolant was slowing oozing from from the headgasket area around
cylinder 3 at the front of the block.

I think I'll take a few weeks break from the car and hope it fixes
itself. Is that reasonable? If not, what would my next steps be
short of pulling the head and checking it once again from
straightness? I did have both the head and the block shaved to ensure
a flat surface already.

Arp studs are at 80 lbs now
_____________________________________________


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## CrankWorkOrange (Mar 15, 2004)

u sure it's not just leaking from under the flange on the front of the head? :beer:


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

Nah, water was bubbling right from under the head. I'm gonna confirm my torque wrench with some weights and a vice to hold it solid, then retorque to 85 lb one by one.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

Weird, Head gasket? Head decking?


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

16v were a blast i have had 3 turbo 16v over the years.. the fwd is why i gave up on mine though. 

my last one was a blast as well.. turbo was a little big for a street car 6169, and traction was a joke over 14psi. on slicks it was great. but driving it on the street on regular dot tires was pointless.. every gear it just blew the tires off once it got into boost. i think i drove the car on the street the most around 14~15 psi just for traction. 

cool build none the less :thumbup:


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

I re-torqued each headstud nut (in the order stated in the manual) after first loosening it by 1/2 turn. Some nuts did need more than 1/2 turn to reach 80-85 ft lb. I used my old beam type wrench instead of the clicker i used the first time. In some comparisons/checking against the clicker wrench it seems the beam wrench is applying a bit more torque. Not a huge difference, but I'll still calibrate it to know for myself if it really is off a bit. 

this is a pic from the web showing a very similar beam wrench. 










I'll give it another shot in a few days. need to get a stripped valvecover bolt hole fixed before putting it all back together.


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

your crazy if you trust that old style torque wrench.. i check an old piece a friend had that looked very similar with my snap-on electronic and it was easily 15 ft lbs off. 

get yourself a real torque wrench. im sure you can borrow one from someone.. if your in pa you can use mine lol.. or autozone rents tools for free and im pretty sure they have one too. 

i wouldnt trust that thing as far as i can throw it


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

I'll test both my wrenches to see where they are and post back here. Digital can be out of spec just like a clicker, but the beam type has to be bent to be out of spec. 

re-torquing the nuts had no effect, so I removed the head today. I think rough machine work is at fault because there are ridges detectable with a finger nail all over the head and block. I'll take a shot of the aba gasket where there are visible lines in the gasket that likely were the path for the leakage. For this reason I went with the fiber gasket this time around instead of the metal layer gasket. 

Maybe I'll be able to start up the car later this evening and know if the leaking is gone.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

chadr said:


>


 I meant to tell you that your torque wrench doesn't even go up to 80ft/lbs....


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

I just went to 600 in/lbs and figured that would be enough  

The engine was ready to start last night, but I decided to wait till today to give it a go. I'm gonna start the car later and hope it doesn't leak now with the fiber gasket. 

That is just a pic of a similar looking beam wrench. Mine goes up to 140 ft/lb. The other clicker I have goes to 100 ft/lb. The clicker and the beam are within 5 ft/lb of each other it seems.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

chadr said:


> I just went to 600 in/lbs and figured that would be enough
> 
> The engine was ready to start last night, but I decided to wait till today to give it a go. I'm gonna start the car later and hope it doesn't leak now with the fiber gasket.
> 
> That is just a pic of a similar looking beam wrench. Mine goes up to 140 ft/lb. The other clicker I have goes to 100 ft/lb. The clicker and the beam are within 5 ft/lb of each other it seems.


 I just got off the phone with someone that torques their 625 material studs to 180, asked him how much hp they are making and told me 8,000.... :laugh: 

Sick ish right there, and we're here playing with toys....


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

no leaks with the new head gasket. I took a few pictures of the leaking gasket. There are clear imprints left from the machine work as you can see in the pictures. 

There are a few more pics in the picasa album: 

https://picasaweb.google.com/102391...16vTurboRebuild?authkey=Gv1sRgCI7G-Iny8s6PSQ#


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

I went to the dyno again today for more tuning. Previously made about 210 whp on the dynojet over a year ago at 9 psi. I backed off the ignition timing and had been running the car since then at 200 whp, which was the whp on the first run today. I decided to turn of the knocksense ignition module and just tune to the peak power and back off timing a degree or two from there. From what I've found aftermarket knocksensors are going to pick up engine noise way before peak power is found. I've been running very conservative timing to keep the knocksense from picking up anything, but this was causing me to run way too little timing and leaving ~25 whp on the table. So I unplugged the knocksense completely so I don't see the led flashing and I'll just rely on the tuning and enjoy the much better power output. What still makes me wonder is why knocksense indicates knock when I bumped up the ignition timing but the car was still making more power and not making any audible sounds (was listening using a diy whisper 2000 electronic detonation detector and didn't hear anything abnormal).

I bumped up the fuel pressure from 43 psi to 58 psi to keep the injectors right under 80% max duty cycle. Running at 9 psi the power was at 225. At 12 psi it was at 240 but my ignition wasn't able to keep the spark plugs going so I dialed the boost back to 9 - 10. 

Here is a graph from the 9 psi run. 










ignition timing works well in boost around 160 ~ 170 kpa and above 3500, but I'm sure the rest of the table could be much better optimized to pick up power. 










I want to use a steady state dyno next time so I can tune the whole table instead of just wide open power runs.


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Unless it's a stock motor, with a stock ECU/Knock sensor then it's very hard to dial in the knock sensor... hence why 90% of tuners don't use them. 

Reason is a built motor can be louder, and an aftermarket ECU has no way to differentiate between engine noise and actual knock.

The stock ECU/knock sensors is a work of art and is how the stock ECU can ride the knock sensor to keep the motor safe. It's setup to know what's actually knock and not just engine noise. 

.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Please list you mods/engine specs.
Bore/stroke/rod ratio/ head/ intake manifold/exhaust size/turbo size. gas used on dyno

Lets see you are at 226whp on a tiny turbo. that's good 100whp more then stock.
What compression?
did you log the A/F during this session?
Black smoke usually means rich.
The power curve looks correct but the timing looks a little drastic at the 5k-7k rpm range at 220kpa
200KPA is 29psi - atmosphere = 14.5psi
so at 9psi you were in the 160kpa range of your timing map
did you inspect your spark plugs?
there should be a lighter look on in the middle of the electrode strap if the timing is correct.
if it is towards the tip to early. towards the threads to late.


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## chadr (Feb 12, 2000)

thanks repoman



> Please list you mods/engine specs.
> Bore/stroke/rod ratio/ head/ intake manifold/exhaust size/turbo size. gas used on dyno


stock 2.0l 16v block with je 9:1 forged and coated pistons
stock rod length
stock head
tt street cams
intake manifold is stock 16v
2.5" downpipe to 2.25" cat back
Garrett T3/T4E stage 3 .48 turbine housing, .60 compressor housing, 50 trim compressor wheel
premium pump gas (93 octane I believe)



> did you log the A/F during this session?


yes, af was logged both by the dyno wideband and the one on the car. The car wideband was about 11.5 at 9 psi and the dyno wideband was close to 12.5.



> Black smoke usually means rich.


It only had a few distinct instant puffs of dark smoke probably around peak torque that were hard to notice unless one was really looking for it. Otherwise the exhaust wasn't really noticeable at all during the pulls.



> The power curve looks correct but the timing looks a little drastic at the 5k-7k rpm range at 220kpa
> 200KPA is 29psi - atmosphere = 14.5psi
> so at 9psi you were in the 160kpa range of your timing map


I didn't map above 180 kpa (~12 psi) so my ignition timing isn't really valid up there. I haven't even paid much attention to it, but I suppose I should put conservative realistic numbers in there for anyone who may blindly plug in my map without doing their own dyno testing to creep up to the right timing.

I also didn't map at 100 kpa and then at the wastegate spring pressure of 6 psi. I wanted to do that, but my idea of using my compressor tank at 10 psi to the wastegate popped the hose off the barb (no clamp) and I had to mess around near the hot exhaust to plug it back in. I need to get a clamp on there for next time.



> did you inspect your spark plugs?
> there should be a lighter look on in the middle of the electrode strap if the timing is correct.
> if it is towards the tip to late. towards the threads to late.


To do this inspection do I need to install new plugs at the dyno, make a pull, and shut off the engine immediately? I assume I can't pull the plugs now to get any decent info from them.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Well with the motor you have I think the power is good. 
Assuming a Air to Air I/C w/ piping on a 50 trim there is going to be pressure drop and with the
.48AR that turbo is going to hit early and peter out fast. with all that piping there is going to be lag even for that little turbo. this can be seen at the 3500rpm were you are under 100whp which is were your boost kicks in.
82.5mm bore will burn quick and 93octane also will burn quick so your engine may not need a lot of timing.
the A/F will also effect the burn time. 11.5 is rich and you are giving up hp with that much fuel ratio.
you are also slowing the burn rate running that rich requiring you to advance the timing. the target is to get all the fuel to burn by 14deg ATDC. 
if the dyno is showing 1. lean at the end of the tail pipe then dial the A/F to 12.0 on the cars sensor
that would still be safe at 13.0 at the tail pipe according to the dyno sensor. at 15-15psi a 12.2A/F will make more power then 11.5 A/F. I would check this on the dyno to see if you make more power or less. assuming the sensors are accurate. the dyno will tell you if the engine is happy or not with the fuel adjustment.

You need to get your spark up to par. more spark energy to keep the plugs lit can be accomplished with a better coil and or more dwell.

you should get the idle and cruise timing dialed in on a set of plugs. let them get used/warmed up 
and then after a cruise turn the key off and pull over and check the plugs.
on the dyno after the pull just turn the key off at the end of a pull and pull a plug and check it.
Remember if the lighter discoloration is on the tip you are to Advance. if the lighter discoloration is by the threads you are to Retard. the lighter color should be in the middle of the bend.
check this on the dyno and see if the numbers are good.
while inspecting the plugs if you see black or aluminum flex's on the white porcelain this is detonation. Aluminum particles are a bad sign.
Temps are a key factor to keeping the motor from detonation. intake temps/head temps/plug temps.


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