# Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger



## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

Hi guys,
I have a friend who's got a 03' Jetta turbo, and I'm a bit fuzzy on his turbo setup, but we got to talking about proper fueling and fuel requirements. As I'm sure many of you guys know proper fueling is much more than a fuel rail and some injectors. We're currently producing billet dual and triple Walbro fuel pump hangers for a variety of different models and if there is a need in the VW community, I'd be happy to work with one of the site sponsors to supply a viable billet dual pump hanger good to a solid 950whp. To me it beats having a noisy external pump mounted in the engine bay, but I'd like some feedback from the VW public.
Here's a quick view of pump hangers we've made for various other models:
*Viper 2nd gen triple pump hanger:*








*Viper 3rd gen triple pump hanger:*








*350z triple fuel pump hanger:*








*Lexus SC300/400 dual pump hanger:*








More assemblies in process now. 
Thanks, 
Eric


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

id be interested in a dual fuel pump setup for my mk3 gti.


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## radoboy (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

Looks very nice. Would this be able to account for low fuel tank level starvation?


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (radoboy)*

It would do away with the canister as you guys can see in the pics. What we're finding is that when multiple pumps are installed, they'll drain a canister in less than 5 seconds at when pushed to full bore. 
From Viper Alley by Final GTS.. This applies to all multiple intank pump setups:
_"4. Single-Stage, Multi-pump in-tank systems are nice and easy & keep fuel temps down if staged, but require decent fuel levels as they wll not work too well with surge canisters. "_
Draining the canister creates a lean condition under WOT which as everyone knows is devastating for a motor. Think of two or three pumps dropped into a 1 liter container of liquid be it fuel, water, etc. Think of how fast multiple pump swould drain that container; the same thing happens in your fuel tank canister. What we recommend is if someone reaches the point where they will need dual, triple, or even quad Walbros [as we're producing now], that they not let fuel level get below 1/8th tank for hard turns or WOT operation. That cures any starvation issues under WOT, and also daily driving.
Thanks !
Eric


_Modified by cowboy bebop at 2:37 PM 5-15-2008_


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## MiamiVr6T (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: (vr6chris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6chris* »_id be interested in a dual fuel pump setup for my mk3 gti. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif mk3 golf VR6
Would love to slap on a billet dual hanger as well


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (vr6chris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6chris* »_id be interested in a dual fuel pump setup for my mk3 gti. 

How much fuel do you really need!?


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

There's folks out there that need quite a bit. My buddy was telling me about when fueling needs surpass what the stock pump can provide, folks piggyback an external pump in the engine bay? That's got to be loud. Most guys doing dual, triple, or quad pump simple want to do their fuel system once and never have to touch it again.
I would like to work with the site vendors on this, also; I'm not here to tread anyones turf. If there is a site vendor that would like to know more about how to do this project and have it be exclusive, please PM me and we can take it from there. 
Thanks, I very much appreacite the feedback so far!
Eric


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (cowboy bebop)*

Just a few more pics of some of the work we've done. 
























Can someone point me towards the absolute leader in the VW community? Someone that may be interested in furthering the platform.
Thanks!
Eric


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## 2doorV6 (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

looks really well made what r the costs of producing such a setup? what type of production time etc, pm me if you would like


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (2doorV6)*

PM sent







Please let me know if there is a vendor on the forum who would be intrested in hosting a group buy. 
Thanks!
Eric


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## 2pt. slo (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

Try http://www.c2motorsports.net http://www.kineticmotorsport.com http://www.usrallyteam.com http://www.gruvenparts.com http://www.mjmautohaus.com might do it. http://www.fourseasontuning.com might also...just throwing these out there for ya. Good Luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cncpete (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (2pt. slo)*

I like these set ups, you guys do some impressive work. Some nice machining!
I am a former Walbro employee (actually TI automotive, the parent company), worked in the R&D department for a couple years, got a couple thoughts. In a plastic tank application every single fuel module of this type I have seen has been spring loaded. This is to take into account for having a full tank/empty, temperature/pressure swelling. It keeps the pump(s) in contact with the bottom of the tank. Have you thought about integrating this into your design at all? It may give you that last little edge since you're getting rid of the bucket.
Another thing I thought I would share is that most people don't realize how the little in tank reservoir/bucket works. Yes it catches the return fuel, but there is a lot more to it. 90% of systems designed like this use a venturi effect. Roughly 10-15% of the fuel is pumped through a small nozzle or jet at pressure and sprayed through a much larger orifice at a right angle, this orifice is usually on the bottom or side of the reservoir. It creates a low pressure area and draws fuel in from the outside of the reservoir, actually quite a bit. Usually about 5x or more the amount going through the jet. It is called bernoulli's principle. Sometimes this is integrated into the bottom of the pump itself. This is what keeps the reservoir full. This works extremely well, we tested it to it's limits on every application we developed. Lol just thought I would share that, doubt you could integrate it into any of your applications.
I actually got my hands on some very special pumps before I left Walbro. I got this one pump that flows 350 L/min @9 bar... lol that is a lot, at 3 bar it is like a garden hose. Actually it was developed by peirburg, but TI acquired them while I worked there. Beauty of it is it's only about an inch taller than the 255 walbro aftermarket guys. I've put them in a couple MK3's. Also have some twin turbine pumps originally developed by Walbro for the ford GT program, they are also very small in size and flow almost 400 L/min at 3 bar. I just find it amazing that they have all this technology but there is such limited availability to the public. Lol glad I got my hands on a few before I left at least.
Good luck with your parts there, you should have a descent market for it here.
One other thing, do you guys warranty against evap leaks? I would imagine that the electrical connections would be the hardest to seal. Over molded OEM systems are tested to the parts/billion for leakage, usually using helium leak detection systems.


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

Hi Pete, 
Thanks very much for the compliments, we take a lot of pride in our work and are proud to offer such high quality pieces to a demanding public. 
We've looked into the spring loaded cups, however that idea was quickly shelved due to the fact that spring loading is a relatively new approach by auto makers. We could duplicate it, but honestly there would be no real need. Spring loading came in at the time of cheaper plastic fuel sending units, most of 90's Toyotas we deal with came with the solid stamped steel hats and straps, and the swirl pot was internal to the tank itself. 
The built in canister is a great piece and does away with the need for a proper swirl pot. It's perfect for a relatively stock application. The problems come in when the fuel needs are pushed well beyond the scope of the single pump, and a second/third pump is needed. Those little plastic sending units don't offer up any upgradability.







Even is three pumps could be made to fit, the small canister would drain in a flash causing devastating starvation issues ie. a blown motor. With that in mind, we just ask the guys who run out systems not to lay down the hammer or go road racing on a 1/8th tank.







That cuts the starvation to nill.
That's a very good question about the connector and evaperation leakage. The connector we use is a fuel safe and has to be pushed hard into the fitted hole. Plus there's a small sealing ring underneath w/ 4 6-32 screws holding it into place. It's as positive a seal as we can achieve. We do warrantee the connector and if it's broken, damaged, cut, melts, whatever, for any reason, we'll send out another one. 
Those high flow pumps sound amazing, especially the Ford GT pumps. I'd love to get a hold of some of those








Here's a cool pic one of customers sent over yesterday, they had the entire batch anodized red.
















Thanks!
Eric


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## heyfu (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: (cowboy bebop)*

eric nice work ;; do you still have the supra ?? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rodney_dubs (Mar 2, 2008)

I've never seen a mk4 get away with 1/8th of a tank and a intank pump setup like that. More like 1/4 to 1/3 of a tank minimum to get rid of the scavenging, and thats just for street use... On the road course I don't think I would even try it, especially with a good driver and sticky tires. 
Other then the fuel pickup issues, that setup will work well. Nice machine work as well just watch out for what you "advertise" on here they are very picky and once you've got them watching you, you won't be able to fart without getting banned. 


_Modified by rodney_dubs at 9:14 AM 5-17-2008_


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (rodney_dubs)*

A turbo'd car that's making 550whp on up needs a good amount of fuel supply, without a doubt. On a motor like that, there's no way I'd stab the throttle and pull it with 1/4 tank. I know a few folks that blew out a motor that way. It's all up to the owner to ensure that they have the right amount of fuel in the tank before deciding to lay into the hammer. 99% of the people that can use something like this are looking for a quiet solution to the fuel issue when they lay intot he throttle on the streets. External pumps do the job but are just plain noisy and annoying. Dropping 2/3/4 pumps into the tank via a billet hanger is a much more civilized approach in that there's not a noisy external buzzing under the hood. If road racing or rally, I'd opt for the external since it's by that time the car is half race car anyways so a noisy external isn't a concern.
No worries on advertising, I've contacted a number of site vendors to help organize a group purchase. I'm all about getting this to the VW public in the right way. If none of the vendors wish to steop up, I'll contact admin about becoming a vendor myself to get things organized. 
Thanks!
Eric


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (heyfu) Supra...*

Heyfu, I sold my white Supra, but have the black V8TT widebody being buit now. It's nearly ready to crank.








We don't mess around over here








Eric


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## heyfu (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: (heyfu) Supra... (cowboy bebop)*

damn that looks nice going over 1k hp with it ?? lenny sold his supra too and rj with the vett is still tuning last i talked to him he was at 830whp http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (heyfu)*

Not on this one, I'm only going to for 900rwhp more or less. But I am looking for boost off idle, and that's the most important part. 
Good news on the billet hangers..







I'm working with a site vendor to organize a group buy and it should be up shortly. Proper fuel supply for all!! No more noisy external pumps!
Eric


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## MiamiVr6T (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: (cowboy bebop)*

awesome... let me know.. need to get one cause my fuel level bouy (sensor) broke and the fuel sending unit needs to get replaced in order for it to work


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (MiamiVr6T)*

I'm just waiting on Ina to put the group purchases up and we can go from there.








Thanks again!
Eric


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (cowboy bebop)*

Don't know if I'd need a double pump, let alone a triple, but having the AN fittings would make the fuel system plumbing quite a bit easier / neater.


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (vr6swap)*

That's one of the plus sides of a billet hanger. Either 1,2,or 3 pumps can be used depending on the needs of the set-up, and it all can be done with the same fuel pump hanger. 
Thanks!
Eric


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

*Re: (cowboy bebop)*

Those are some nice parts you guys make, and it would be good to see them available for VWs, a lot of people making big power have gone the surge tank/external fuel pump route, but this will be a good option.
I think USRT was offering/supposed to offer dual/triple walbro hangers, but not sure whether they still do.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (sp_golf)*

if these mounted to the factory location (twist in, attach to bottom of tank) i think they would be a hit!!! 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for a cool product.


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

Thanks man, Issam from INA Engineering has been gracious enough to agree to host a group buy, and apparently it's going up tomorrow in the various applicable sections. Thanks gents for your support!
Eric


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## stealthmk1 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (cowboy bebop)*

Great looking parts, best of luck on the business side of it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (cowboy bebop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cowboy bebop* »_Thanks man, Issam from INA Engineering has been gracious enough to agree to host a group buy, and apparently it's going up tomorrow in the various applicable sections. Thanks gents for your support!
Eric

Can we pick the parts up if we are local? I'm also from (but not currently in) Central Florida. PM me if you like, I have some other questions about the setup


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: (leebro61)*

PM's sent.








Eric


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

Ok before I get this GB going,how many of you want in?


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (INA)*

we need to confirm proper mounting for the MK3/MK2/B3/B4/Corrado tank. 
if so, i will buy.


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## MiamiVr6T (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (INA)*

I'd be in


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (INA)*

What is the pricing schedule?
Thanks!
Eric


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (Noobercorn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Noobercorn* »_we need to confirm proper mounting for the MK3/MK2/B3/B4/Corrado tank. 
if so, i will buy. 

Thats Eric's department...
Eric?


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (INA)*

If your hanger is the same as MK4 Jetta and looks like this, then you're good.


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## Rado.16vT (May 25, 2005)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

what about a syncro (rallye) type? I would deff have one as would other syncro guys.
Also most walbro inline pumps need pressure to feed them. I's assuming this needs to use the puller pumps ie smaller than the inline ones.


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (Rado.16vT)*

PM sent on the syncro.








Eric


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

Any confirmation for the mk3 vr6? Is it a direct bolt-on?


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## orangea2vr6 (Jan 25, 2001)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (VR6rocks)*

any updates I'm in for one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Will these fit the bosch pumps as well? 


_Modified by orangea2vr6 at 1:34 PM 5-26-2008_


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (orangea2vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orangea2vr6* »_any updates I'm in for one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Will these fit the bosch pumps as well?

Bosch pumps are way to wide in diameter to squeeze 3 in there.


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (orangea2vr6)*

Right, the Walbro's are much more compact than the bosch. In fact the bosch are outright massive. The billet hanger will be made for two walbro 225L/hr pumps, which will supply fuel all the way to 950whp. 
Thanks!
Eric


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

the low fuel level issues with this setup seems a little sketchy to me. I think I'll stick with the stocker feeding an inline.
BTW my buddy has a Walbro in-tank in his DSM and it is a lot louder than the inline was on my GTI.


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (DarkSideGTI)*

I beleive we covered it, but please refer to a quote from the first page concerning canisters and multi pump setups.

_Quote, originally posted by *cowboy bebop* »_It would do away with the canister as you guys can see in the pics. What we're finding is that when multiple pumps are installed, they'll drain a canister in less than 5 seconds at when pushed to full bore. 
From Viper Alley by Final GTS.. This applies to all multiple intank pump setups:
"4. Single-Stage, Multi-pump in-tank systems are nice and easy & keep fuel temps down if staged, but require decent fuel levels as they wll not work too well with surge canisters. "
Draining the canister creates a lean condition under WOT which as everyone knows is devastating for a motor. Think of two or three pumps dropped into a 1 liter container of liquid be it fuel, water, etc. Think of how fast multiple pump swould drain that container; the same thing happens in your fuel tank canister. What we recommend is if someone reaches the point where they will need dual, triple, or even quad Walbros [as we're producing now], that they not let fuel level get below 1/8th tank for hard turns or WOT operation. That cures any starvation issues under WOT, and also daily driving.

I'm fuzzy on why an intake would ever be louder than an inline. That's highly improbable. Inline external pumps by their very nature hum and buzz incesently, while the intank pumps are muffled by a layer of fuel, tank, and other insulation. 
Thanks!
Eric


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cowboy bebop* »_I beleive we covered it, but please refer to a quote from the first page concerning canisters and multi pump setups.
I'm fuzzy on why an intake would ever be louder than an inline. That's highly improbable. Inline external pumps by their very nature hum and buzz incesently, while the intank pumps are muffled by a layer of fuel, tank, and other insulation. 
Thanks!
Eric


I never had problems draining the canister on my stock+inline setup. The canister is not only filled by the fuel return is it? 
My buddies DSM was definitely a lot louder. He did have the rear seats out though and I could not even hear mine. It was in the engine bay btw so that helped cover up the noise.


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (DarkSideGTI)*

The canisters are filled with the return and also a small supply coming from the bottom of the pump itself. That's goofy in itself because why not use that fuel at the business end. If you can envision a 1/2L container of fuel, and multiple fuel pumps placed in the center. Apply battery power to the pumps, and stand back. We've calculatd that three pumps would drain the 1/2L canister in ~2.5 seconds, twin pumps would empty it in ~3.5L seconds. I just don't beleive the maufacturers envisioned the stock units supplying fuel for 6,7 and 800whp applications.
For most tuned cars a single feed internal/external may work fine. The downfalls come in the fact that there's a single -6AN size feed, and the external pump is annoying. That solution is more a band aid fix to proper fueling, whereas I strongly feel the true solution is multiple intank pumps. As far as fuel starvation at low tank levels are concerned, that's one of the responsibilites of building a high HP tuner car. Always keep plenty of fuel in the tank is the cheapest insurance an owner can have. 
Thanks!
Eric


_Modified by cowboy bebop at 4:49 PM 5-27-2008_


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

most drag racers I know only have a few gallons in their car to save weight, plus if you are running race gas a half a tank is pricey.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (DarkSideGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_the low fuel level issues with this setup seems a little sketchy to me. I think I'll stick with the stocker feeding an inline.
BTW my buddy has a Walbro in-tank in his DSM and it is a lot louder than the inline was on my GTI.

Please read Tai VW's thread on this "low level issue"


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (DarkSideGTI)*

That's possibly a fuel cell foam filled, but there's plenty that decided to stab the throttle w/ less than 1/4 tank ended up blowng the motor due to a lean condition. That's with stock fuel hangers I should. Plainly, it's never advised to hammer it without plenty of fuel in the tank. I don't care how expensive C16 is these days, it's always cheaper than a motor build. It's just good insurance.
Thanks!
Eric


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

Just a heads up, 90% of the people on here run stock fuel lines, so even 2 pumps pushing into the stock lines would be golden


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## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (KubotaPowered)*

I use this system once in a while in a mk4, it uses the stock fuel level unit and top. I add another component for the TT.











_Modified by silly_sohc at 7:16 PM 5-28-2008_


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (KubotaPowered)*

Really, the billet hanger can support any number of configurations raning from hooking into the stock lines to running twin braided lines to the rail. It's very versatile.
Thanks!
Eric


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

Quick update. We're still waiting on the group buy to be put on the forum; I've gotten quite a few PM's from members expressing interest, so I'm ready to get the group buy started. Can someone help with that?
Thanks!
Eric


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## cowboy bebop (May 15, 2008)

*Re: Dual Walbro billet fuel pump hanger (cowboy bebop)*

Group buy is up, gents.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3895608
Eric

_Modified by cowboy bebop at 10:31 PM 6-19-2008_


_Modified by cowboy bebop at 10:49 PM 6-19-2008_


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## Dk vr6 sleeper (Dec 17, 2013)

Hello guys. Do anyone knows if these billet dual hanger are still available? Or some similar who can handle 900whp? 
Thanks.


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## Dk vr6 sleeper (Dec 17, 2013)

*R32 headliner 2003*

Hello all. Does anyone hawing a R32 headliner for sale to a 3 door whitout sunroof??🙏🏼


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