# 2018 Tiguan - APR flash?



## DAYTA (Mar 6, 2011)

Does anyone have the APR flash on their 2018 Tiguan yet? Checking APR's wesbite, it looks like their EA888 gen 3 flash is compatible with the new Tiguan. 

I previously owned a 2011 Tiguan with the APR stage 1 flash which I enjoyed before it became too small for my growing family. Now that my family is growing even larger, I've been looking at the 2018 Tiguan but the lack of power is a huge turn-off. Without an APR flash, I will be forced to look elsewhere.


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## acidrider (Jul 8, 2011)

Where? Ford? Gmc?

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## DAYTA (Mar 6, 2011)

acidrider said:


> Where? Ford? Gmc?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


CX-9 has my attention


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## acidrider (Jul 8, 2011)

Cx-9 is nice...bigger class tho, more comparable to atlas imo. With the added weight of the cx-9, it may also feel underpowered at times as well....guess you will have to drive both and see for yourself...I'm sure apr will develop something eventually, still a pretty new motor, and already a lot of ppl crying about the power figures

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## greggmischenko (Mar 21, 2011)

DAYTA said:


> CX-9 has my attention


I just picked up a 2017 CX-9 Grand Touring AWD instead of a 2018 Tiguan SEL Premium that I was considering. Yes, the CX-9 is bigger and weighs more (almost 500 pounds more) but drives smaller than its actual physical size. It also seems to be such a better value for the money compared to the new Tiguan. The CX-9 in GT trim feels like a luxury car inside while the Tiguan feels rather "cheap". The 310 lb ft of torque in the CX-9 makes it more fun to drive than the new Tiguan too.

The new Tiguan did have some advantages over the CX-9 but the overall value just wasn't there: just about the same cargo/trunk volume in the Tiguan as the CX-9 which is impressive considering how much smaller the Tiguan is; Android Auto & Apple Carplay are years ahead of Mazda's system and while it's not bad, it just can't compare to the features and ease of use of AA/Carplay.

If you're considering the CX-9, act fast on a 2017 model as the 2018 models were just announced and there are many minor/incremental changes coming for 2018 (though some of these may be important to some people and worth the wait for a 2018 model such as heated steering wheel/windshield; more adjustable driver's seat; heated rear seats).


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## greggmischenko (Mar 21, 2011)

acidrider said:


> Cx-9 is nice...bigger class tho, more comparable to atlas imo. With the added weight of the cx-9, it may also feel underpowered at times as well....guess you will have to drive both and see for yourself...I'm sure apr will develop something eventually, still a pretty new motor, and already a lot of ppl crying about the power figures
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


I drove the new Tiguan a couple of different test drives and the CX-9 immediately after one of them: it doesn't feel that much bigger. Just under 500 pounds heavier, but ~65 more HP and almost 90 lb ft more torque. After driving the Tiguan the CX-9 is in no way underpowered by comparison. Perhaps if you compare the CX-9 to other SUVs in its class with more power available, but straight line performance is a clear win for the CX-9 in a head to head with the new Tiguan.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

North America 2018 Tiguan has a new engine, which is the EA888 Generation 3B, with the "Budack" cycle (Miller cycle), which has 184 hp / 221 ft-lbs of torque. This engine will also be in the Passat and Beetle.

It is not the same engine has the Euro spec 2.0 TSI, which seems to be the EA888 Gen 3 (let's call it Gen 3A) from the GTI.

The North America model is brand new. Give tuners some time and they will come up with something. Burger Motorsport is already working on something.


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## marc505 (May 17, 2009)

Bawlti said:


> North America 2018 Tiguan has a new engine, which is the EA888 Generation 3B, with the "Budack" cycle (Miller cycle), which has 184 hp / 221 ft-lbs of torque. This engine will also be in the Passat and Beetle.
> 
> It is not the same engine has the Euro spec 2.0 TSI, which seems to be the EA888 Gen 3 (let's call it Gen 3A) from the GTI.
> 
> The North America model is brand new. Give tuners some time and they will come up with something. Burger Motorsport is already working on something.


APR told me the tune is ready for the Noth American Tiguan. The only thing is they could have to read the ECU then find the unlock code to flash it directly threw OBDII port for next customer depending of the version. 

I should received my new tiguan in 2-3 weeks. I will flash it for sure. Would like to know feedback from other poeple who have done it too!


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

marc505 said:


> APR told me the tune is ready for the Noth American Tiguan. The only thing is they could have to read the ECU then find the unlock code to flash it directly threw OBDII port for next customer depending of the version.
> 
> I should received my new tiguan in 2-3 weeks. I will flash it for sure. Would like to know feedback from other poeple who have done it too!


Well their website doesn't have any info about it, the NA 2017+ Tiguan page brings us to the mk7 GTI page (EA888 Gen 3, bot Gen 3B).

If it's true, this is great news. I traded my '15 GTI for the new Tiguan 2 weeks ago. It is so new in North America that I can't find any info on tunes and mods anywhere. This forum is a good place to start, but so few people receive their Tiguan that nobody actually started to mod them yet in America.


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## buzzindsm (Sep 2, 2017)

greggmischenko said:


> I just picked up a 2017 CX-9 Grand Touring AWD instead of a 2018 Tiguan SEL Premium that I was considering. Yes, the CX-9 is bigger and weighs more (almost 500 pounds more) but drives smaller than its actual physical size. It also seems to be such a better value for the money compared to the new Tiguan. The CX-9 in GT trim feels like a luxury car inside while the Tiguan feels rather "cheap". The 310 lb ft of torque in the CX-9 makes it more fun to drive than the new Tiguan too.
> 
> The new Tiguan did have some advantages over the CX-9 but the overall value just wasn't there: just about the same cargo/trunk volume in the Tiguan as the CX-9 which is impressive considering how much smaller the Tiguan is; Android Auto & Apple Carplay are years ahead of Mazda's system and while it's not bad, it just can't compare to the features and ease of use of AA/Carplay.
> 
> If you're considering the CX-9, act fast on a 2017 model as the 2018 models were just announced and there are many minor/incremental changes coming for 2018 (though some of these may be important to some people and worth the wait for a 2018 model such as heated steering wheel/windshield; more adjustable driver's seat; heated rear seats).


My wife came down to these exact two vehicles as well.

Performance=CX-9 better but I was expecting a lot more. Both vehicles felt like dogs compared to her RDX.
Styling=CX-9 better IMO
Room-Surprisingly, the Tiguan gave me better room in the 2nd seat.
Size-Wife had a RDX and she wanted something simlar in size. The CX-9 is 199 inches long, which is like 5 inches longer than a Honda Pilot.
Interior-Wife liked how the center console is high and kind of wraps around you. Everything else she preferred the Tiguan. She really likes the sunroof that really makes the car feel large.
Tech-Tiguan kills the CX-9.
Price-The CX-9's were being discounted but it would still cost us about $4k more
Warranty-VW wins
On the message boards people complained about a weak air conditioner in both front and back.

I told her she could get what she wanted and she picked the Tiguan. I'm not sure which one I would have picked if I had to drive it. I will say that the any other model than the SEL Premium I wouldn't consider. The tech really sells this car.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

lol still do not understand everyones "lack of power has me looking at other cars" mentality. it is literally only 16 horsepower less than previous models. its not like you will notice anything drastic.

that being said, i will still get my tune when it is released. for sure.


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## greggmischenko (Mar 21, 2011)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> lol still do not understand everyones "lack of power has me looking at other cars" mentality. it is literally only 16 horsepower less than previous models. its not like you will notice anything drastic.
> 
> that being said, i will still get my tune when it is released. for sure.


it's not just the drop in horsepower: it's also the additional weight, different transmission/programming, and overall feel of the vehicle and driving dynamics compared to the old one. Not that the new Tiguan is bad, but it's quite a different driving experience from the 1st gen model. I had a 2011 Tiguan SE AWD for 3 years prior to my 2016 R-Line AWD and IMO the new Tiguan is targeted at a different crowd with different needs/wants in a compact SUV.

Personally, I think the entry-level and mid-range Tiguan models represent decent value and they definitely have some nice features compared to the current competition...but in looking at the SEL Premium I found it hard to justify spending that much when there are other excellent choices when you approach the $40k mark.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Which engine do you have? Open the hood. If you have a sensor right after your intake, we don't have software. That's on a new ECU operating system (Bosch MG1), which will take a while to crack. If you have no sensor there, we'll be in a better position to get you software. The cars in europe ended up being the same as the GTI, more or less, in that respect.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Which engine do you have? Open the hood. If you have a sensor right after your intake, we don't have software. *That's on a new ECU operating system (Bosch MG1)*, which will take a while to crack. If you have no sensor there, we'll be in a better position to get you software. The cars in europe ended up being the same as the GTI, more or less, in that respect.


That's bad news!! Do you guys plan to release a tune someday?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Yes. Working on getting into the ECU every day. It's going to be the next big thing for VW/Audi, and it's really difficult.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yes. Working on getting into the ECU every day. It's going to be the next big thing for VW/Audi, and it's really difficult.


Especially since a version of the Budack cycle engine is going to be on the Passat and iirc, Beetle.


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## marc505 (May 17, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Yes. Working on getting into the ECU every day. It's going to be the next big thing for VW/Audi, and it's really difficult.


You should have a good friend working for Bosch, it could save you a lot a time ! 

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

marc505 said:


> You should have a good friend working for Bosch, it could save you a lot a time !


Doesn't really work that way. We have to find the security holes they don't know exist.


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## marc505 (May 17, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Doesn't really work that way. We have to find the security holes they don't know exist.


Haha! In that case I wish you good luck, it's a hard job! I'm excited to enjoy your work in the future tune!

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## Hanover-VW (Sep 22, 2017)

Anymore information on this or has it been done yet? I'm very curious to know how the 8 Speed trans is going to handle the power adjustment


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The ZF8 speeds are absolutely fantastic with software. Much better than the old 6 speed tiptronics.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> The ZF8 speeds are absolutely fantastic with software. Much better than the old 6 speed tiptronics.


Do you mean a "ZF8" tune along with an ECU tune, or an ECU tune alone?


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The ZF8 speeds are absolutely fantastic with software. Much better than the old 6 speed tiptronics.


Zf transmission is for longitudinal layouts 

Tiguan and atlas are still Aisin

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

BsickPassat said:


> Tiguan and atlas are still Aisin


True. Jumped the gun on that one. The ZF8 is a killer tip trans. Really beats the crap out of the old stuff and in some ways is better than the DSG. 

On the Aisin front, the old 6 speed setup was fine, just not sporty (stock or tuned) like the ZF or DSG.


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## skeetx3 (Oct 15, 2017)

*looking forward to the APR flash*

Just picked up a SEL Premium model and I can't for you guys to come out with your tune. I'll be one of the first in line once it comes out. Keep up the great work!


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

*APR tune NOW AVAILABLE!!!!*

got word from a local retailer and they now have a tune available for the MQB Tiguan platform! i went to their website and found the following link.

unfortunately at the time of this posting, their chart and numbers do not seem to be accurate...even the base HP numbers are wrong so i suggest you take this info with a grain of salt (i know i am). i am most likely going to wait a bit longer as well, it seems a little too good to be true at this point, but maybe others here may have some more information.


http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html

Prost! :beer::beer::beer:


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> got word from a local retailer and they now have a tune available for the MQB Tiguan platform! i went to their website and found the following link.
> 
> unfortunately at the time of this posting, their chart and numbers do not seem to be accurate...even the base HP numbers are wrong so i suggest you take this info with a grain of salt (i know i am). i am most likely going to wait a bit longer as well, it seems a little too good to be true at this point, but maybe others here may have some more information.
> 
> ...


I thought the engine they have on the website is not the same one we have. This was being discussed in a previous thread

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8824258-2018-Tiguan-APR-flash


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

TablaRasa said:


> I thought the engine they have on the website is not the same one we have. This was being discussed in a previous thread
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8824258-2018-Tiguan-APR-flash


same motor, different way it is ran, check out the other thread that I posted explaining the difference with our motor vs the GTI.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8884578-MQB-Tiguan-engine-cycle-EXPLAINED

But APR is saying they have a tune for the MQB Tig...but the graph they use on their website is the MK7 GTI graph, which is why i said to take this with a "grain of salt".


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> same motor, different way it is ran, check out the other thread that I posted explaining the difference with our motor vs the GTI.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8884578-MQB-Tiguan-engine-cycle-EXPLAINED
> 
> But APR is saying they have a tune for the MQB Tig...but the graph they use on their website is the MK7 GTI graph, which is why i said to take this with a "grain of salt".


Yes, I am aware of the Budack cycle. I was just saying that the link you provided seems like the same page that the previous APR thread was referencing.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Doesn't really work that way. We have to find the security holes they don't know exist.


Can you confirm any new developments with the Tune?


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Sorry, but this is not true.

You should edit or delete your post...

The EA888 gen 3B in the 2018 LWB Tiguan available in North America is NOT the same engine as the EA888 gen 3 from the GTI. This has been discussed before.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

No updates. For what it's worth, this family of ECU (MG1) is shared by a couple vehicles:

2.0T B, or Miller Cycle Engines (Tiguan, A3 FWD, B9 A4 Low output in Europe) --- The gen 3 engines with a MAF sensor and intake valve lift. 
3.0T Single Turbo Engines (B9 S4/S5/SQ5)
2.9T Twin Turbo Engines (B9 RS4/RS5)

When you see us offering software for any of those platforms, we'll be much closer.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

from previous thread



[email protected] said:


> No updates. For what it's worth, this family of ECU (MG1) is shared by a couple vehicles:
> 
> 2.0T B, or Miller Cycle Engines (Tiguan, A3 FWD, B9 A4 Low output in Europe) --- The gen 3 engines with a MAF sensor and intake valve lift.
> 3.0T Single Turbo Engines (B9 S4/S5/SQ5)
> ...


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> No updates. For what it's worth, this family of ECU (MG1) is shared by a couple vehicles:
> 
> 2.0T B, or Miller Cycle Engines (Tiguan, A3 FWD, B9 A4 Low output in Europe) --- The gen 3 engines with a MAF sensor and intake valve lift.
> 3.0T Single Turbo Engines (B9 S4/S5/SQ5)
> ...


Thank you for confirming. Just getting some mixed info so thought to ask straight from the source


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

TablaRasa said:


> Thank you for confirming. Just getting some mixed info so thought to ask straight from the source


No problem. 

The ones we are flashing are the ones in europe with the higher output engines (greater than 200 HP.)


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## Gtrain (Jul 1, 2009)

I know it is early, but wondering if the flash would be able to be done remotely by individuals to unflash to bring into service or must go to an authorized dealer to remove flash and reflash afterwards?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Probably not. The ECU will likely need to be removed from the car to flash from stock.


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## Gtrain (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Probably not. The ECU will likely need to be removed from the car to flash from stock.


Thanks


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

not that i do not believe the info coming from the APR account, but why would APR website give us the option to purchase a tune under model year 2018 Tiguan in the US? the link i shared is straight from them...and remember, as i stated in my original thread take this with a grain of salt. :beer::beer:


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> not that i do not believe the info coming from the APR account, but why would APR website give us the option to purchase a tune under model year 2018 Tiguan in the US? the link i shared is straight from them...and remember, as i stated in my original thread take this with a grain of salt.


Because VW offers the pq35 Tiguan limited for 2018

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> not that i do not believe the info coming from the APR account, but why would APR website give us the option to purchase a tune under model year 2018 Tiguan in the US? the link i shared is straight from them...and remember, as i stated in my original thread take this with a grain of salt. :beer::beer:


We don't have software for the new Tiguan in the USA. Only some of the European models.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> not that i do not believe the info coming from the APR account, but why would APR website give us the option to purchase a tune under model year 2018 Tiguan in the US? the link i shared is straight from them...and remember, as i stated in my original thread take this with a grain of salt. :beer::beer:


Not really sure what you are trying to point out here with this statement. 

Your original thread was titled "APR Tune NOW AVAILABLE!!!" which you lead us to believe (before opening) that it is available based on the "ALL CAPS" treatment. Next, this was the body of your thread:



vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> got word from a local retailer and they now have a tune available for the MQB Tiguan platform! i went to their website and found the following link.
> 
> unfortunately at the time of this posting, their chart and numbers do not seem to be accurate...even the base HP numbers are wrong so i suggest you take this info with a grain of salt (i know i am). i am most likely going to wait a bit longer as well, it seems a little too good to be true at this point, but maybe others here may have some more information.
> 
> ...


Analyzing that post, you basically contradicted your title by saying you looked in the website and you would like for us the take it with a grain of salt (and you will as well). This meant we needed to view this with skepticism, and which we did. And then you proceeded to further contradict your title by saying "it seems a little too good to be true" and then solicited if others have information by saying "but maybe others here may have some more information". Well, we basically provided you what you had asked by giving additional info (referencing an existing thread that discusses this), solicited an APR personnel for confirmation (which was confirmed there are not tune for our 2018 Tiguan yet), but then you still proceeded to question it based on your latest post even though all the while you had doubts about the tune per your original post?  

Your thread title maybe should have been "APR Tune NOW AVAILABLE?!?!?!?" or a response of "I knew it was too good to be true" when confirmed by APR personnel would have probably been sufficient and avoided some confusion from my part :beer::beer::beer:


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

*Tunes for '18 US 2.0 TSI?*

Anyone have a tune out/in the works for the 184hp Gen 3b with the funky Miller cycle? 

Picked up an '18 SEL 4Motion over the weekend. Traded in an 09 v6 RAV4. Just a little more power out of this would make it perfect. Did some OBD logging and see it's already hitting 20psi peak boost.


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## WhiteLightningMKV (Dec 2, 2008)

Supposedly APR is working on a tune. I'm sure other companies will follow suit.


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## rocket jay (Dec 19, 2016)

I would love a Tune but after getting out of a Golf R I was happy to be done with premium fuel, and I belive a tune is going to require 91 plus again cha ching cha ching


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## pwaug (Jan 4, 2001)

My VW dealer is an authorized APR dealer -- spoke to the Service Manager last week and he confirmed APR is working on a tune for the 18 Tig as they see it as possibly one of the highest demand tunes in the future.

I wish they would come up with a mild version tune that uses 87 fuel in addition to any high end tune they develop.


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

This was the response I got from my local APR installer asking if there was a tune. But APR isn't the only game in town right?




> I doubt it as well but if you are close we can plug in, match the box code and if its out we can flash it, if not we'll get updates as the ECU # is updated/released.
> The 2018 priorities at APR right now are RS3 and TT-RS. If your Tiguan is on a new ECU that doesn't have any common calibrations for the previous year it'll likely be a few months before we see an official release.
> 
> Let me know if you'd like to swing by to interrogate, just takes a few minutes, its an easier and more accurate way of getting the specific ECU information and revision number.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The US Tiguan is on Bosch MG1. We are not working on a tune until we're able to flash the ECU. No one in the world is able to flash this ECU, yet.


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## mpower22 (Jan 24, 2002)

This is not the case. I have an 87 octane tune for my 2015 passat. Makes a very noticeable difference. As this will be the commodity engine for the passat/jetta/golf etc moving forward APR most likely will create 87/91/93 octane tunes......


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

mpower22 said:


> This is not the case. I have an 87 octane tune for my 2015 passat. Makes a very noticeable difference. As this will be the commodity engine for the passat/jetta/golf etc moving forward APR most likely will create 87/91/93 octane tunes......


What is "not the case"? Your 2015 Passat has a different engine with a different controller than the new 2018 Tiguan. The tune for your car (regardless of fuel octane) is not for the new B-cycle TSI engine used in the MQB Tiguan. I have no idea how (or why) your post applies here. Before APR (or anybody else) creates a tune for the new DGUA engine, they have to figure out how to flash the memory in the new controller. This was explained in the post right before yours.

Have Fun!

Don


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Appears it was a response to rocket saying he wouldn't want a tune as he though it would require premium.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Fuel Grades:

We typically just start with the minimum octane rating on your gas door (87 or 91), and then offer tunes up from there. 

Example:

87 Minimum:

87, 91, 93, 100, 104

91 Minimum:

91, 93, 100, 104


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## gmitchell2 (Nov 11, 2016)

I just spoke with my service manager. He just confirmed APR is in fact working on a tune for my pet unicorn. I’m not sure what octane it will be, but coming from my pet dragon and having to run 93 the whole time, it’d be nice to have some options. I know, I know, I could just go on the “World Wide Web” and go onto APR’s website to figure out there’s no tune for my unicorn, and that their tunes are now regularly coming with a variety of octane options, but what if APR’s site is actually hacked and they’re lying to us? VwVortex may be the last site on earth that only has 100% verified facts 100% of the time. I know people keep saying they cracked the unicorn’s new brain, and i know Aric keeps saying they haven’t, but I heard they did. Let’s keep this thread alive and just keep regurgitating the same stuff about my unicorn and what’s available to really tune her up! I’m sure we’ll be able to find out what APR has setup wayyyy before Arin ever would, I mean, how do we know Arin isn’t fake news and just isn’t a troll who works at a salmon farm? Anyway, I’m going to go enjoy my APR tuned unicorn now


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

gmitchell2 said:


> I just spoke with my service manager. He just confirmed APR is in fact working on a tune for my pet unicorn. I’m not sure what octane it will be, but coming from my pet dragon and having to run 93 the whole time, it’d be nice to have some options. I know, I know, I could just go on the “World Wide Web” and go onto APR’s website to figure out there’s no tune for my unicorn, and that their tunes are now regularly coming with a variety of octane options, but what if APR’s site is actually hacked and they’re lying to us? VwVortex may be the last site on earth that only has 100% verified facts 100% of the time. I know people keep saying they cracked the unicorn’s new brain, and i know Aric keeps saying they haven’t, but I heard they did. Let’s keep this thread alive and just keep regurgitating the same stuff about my unicorn and what’s available to really tune her up! I’m sure we’ll be able to find out what APR has setup wayyyy before Arin ever would, I mean, how do we know Arin isn’t fake news and just isn’t a troll who works at a salmon farm? Anyway, I’m going to go enjoy my APR tuned unicorn now


APR and other tuners business is to develop tunes. Of course they are working on the new EA888 gen 3B.

People keep asking this every week. It's not ready yet, and we will know when it is. The main issue here is cracking the new OS. Lots of confusion because of APR's website, maybe they should correct it and remove the North America mk2 Tiguan ECU tunes section.


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## mpower22 (Jan 24, 2002)

JSWTDI09 said:


> What is "not the case"? Your 2015 Passat has a different engine with a different controller than the new 2018 Tiguan. The tune for your car (regardless of fuel octane) is not for the new B-cycle TSI engine used in the MQB Tiguan. I have no idea how (or why) your post applies here. Before APR (or anybody else) creates a tune for the new DGUA engine, they have to figure out how to flash the memory in the new controller. This was explained in the post right before yours.
> 
> Have Fun!
> 
> Don


Sorry meant to reply with quote. Basically saying that what Arin from APR states further down. We should expect an 87 octane tune for the 3B engine and the 3B engine is becoming the commodity engine across the passat/jetta/golf lineup


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## karyatissa (Dec 12, 2011)

*Advise- APR tune*

I've seen people comment on an APR stage 1 tune but know nothing about it. For those that have had it done- 
1) Is it a noticeable boost in acceleration/torque? Any comparisons with other factory cars would be helpful perspectives. 
2) Is there a noticeable drop in mpg? If so, what should I expect?
3) Does it void the factory warrantee? Is it something that the dealership would even notice when they do routine service?
4) Is the tune done once for the car's lifetime or is it something that has to be done regularly? and do you recommend having all service done at the same shop or elsewhere? 
and... would you recommend it? 

Thanks in advance!


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

It's not available for our Tigs yet...so we'll see once they crack the ECU.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

karyatissa said:


> I've seen people comment on an APR stage 1 tune but know nothing about it. For those that have had it done-
> 1) Is it a noticeable boost in acceleration/torque? Any comparisons with other factory cars would be helpful perspectives.
> 2) Is there a noticeable drop in mpg? If so, what should I expect?
> 3) Does it void the factory warrantee? Is it something that the dealership would even notice when they do routine service?
> ...


Did you even read this thread? No tune is available yet for the 2018 Tiguan in North America. But I can already answer your questions:

1) Yes. Any tune on a VW does a noticeable difference in acceleration/torque.
2) In normal driving, a tune actually increases your mpg. If you're always going WOT, of course it will drop.
3) If you flash back to stock before taking your car to the dealership, you should be okay. But no one can guarantee that.
4) Tuning simply imply that you flash your ECU with a custom map. You can leave it forever on your car, or you can flash the stock map or any other map as you wish.
5) For your services, you should find yourself a mod friendly dealer or an euro specialized shop that you trust. But actually, if a stage 1 tune is your only mod, you just need to flash the stock map before bringing it in.


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

Bawlti said:


> Did you even read this thread?


 No he didn't. The Noob started a new thread to ask his question. A moderator merged the threads to keep all of the APR stuff in one thread. Have Fun! Don


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## 2THEXTRM (Dec 5, 2017)

*APR Tune Now Available?!*

My local APR Tuner has advised me he has a Stage 1 tune available for the MQB, I am going to stop by there tomorrow probably and show him my Tig to again make sure he will confirm the tune is ready to install.

*They replied to my email inquiring on tune for a 2018 MQB:*
*APR now has 2 options available for the Tiguan MK2.
APR + program, which is a ½ tune and adds a powertrain warranty to cover the vehicle should there be an engine/powertrain issue. As you may or may not know, the standard APR tune will void the warranty on the powertrain of the car. The cost for this program is $ 1099.99 plus a $ 39.95 install fee.
APR Stage 1 software, which is the full version, and again will void the powertrain warranty of the car. This tune costs $ 699.99 plus a $ 39.95 install fee.*

I inquired again to advise I have the new MQB Tiguan and he re-confirmed the availability of this tune for both models.

Question to those that have used APR, does this tune immediately become visible to the dealer if a reflash to stock is completed before having any service work performed other than the flash counter? I understand the disclaimer regarding powertrain warranty being voided.

I have owned multiple under warranty tuned vehicles and have not had a catastrophic part failure that caused me to have the vehicle serviced under warranty where they would be digging around to troubleshoot the cause and find the ECU flash counter reflecting a suspicious amount of activity.

So I also understand there is a risk for drivetrain damage when tuned, I honestly am a mature adult who does not hot rod my daily drivers anymore but want the extra kick in the seat of the pants this SUV needs.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Sorry but no, APR (or any other tuner) hasn't released a tune for the 2018 North American Tiguan yet.


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## 2THEXTRM (Dec 5, 2017)

Bawlti said:


> Sorry but no, APR (or any other tuner) hasn't released a tune for the 2018 North American Tiguan yet.


That's what I thought after all my research since I picked up my Tig over a month ago.

I'm still going to stop by shop tomorrow that's near my work anyway to make sure they are giving out valid info moving forward until a tune is actually available so I can get on the list.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

2THEXTRM said:


> That's what I thought after all my research since I picked up my Tig over a month ago.
> 
> I'm still going to stop by shop tomorrow that's near my work anyway to make sure they are giving out valid info moving forward until a tune is actually available so I can get on the list.


Dealers and shops are always mistaking with the MQB Tiguan from the rest of the world and other MQB 2.0T engines. North America only engine is EA888 gen 3B and it has a new ECU operating system which is difficult to crack.

When it finally gets released, trust me, APR will make announcements on this forum, on their website and through their social medias.


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## 2THEXTRM (Dec 5, 2017)

Bawlti said:


> Dealers and shops are always mistaking with the MQB Tiguan from the rest of the world and other MQB 2.0T engines. North America only engine is EA888 gen 3B and it has a new ECU operating system which is difficult to crack.
> 
> When it finally gets released, trust me, APR will make announcements on this forum, on their website and through their social medias.


Yeah, I'll admit I got a little over excited to their replies but knew the buzz was....waiting. Oh well, I'll ask them to flash my Tig tomorrow with cash in hand and a waiver that must be signed by them first lol. j/k, i'll wait.


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## Philip J. Fry (Jan 1, 2005)

APR has cracked the ECU and various tuning packages are now available: http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Philip J. Fry said:


> APR has cracked the ECU and various tuning packages are now available: http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, for the GTI, etc. But not Tiguan. Arin would have announced it on this thread if tunes are available 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Philip J. Fry (Jan 1, 2005)

BsickPassat said:


> Yes, for the GTI, etc. But not Tiguan. Arin would have announced it on this thread if tunes are available
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


The verbiage on their website via the link I provided specifically mentions EA888 Gen 3 for the MK2 Tiguan in the application guide. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Philip J. Fry said:


> BsickPassat said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, for the GTI, etc. But not Tiguan. Arin would have announced it on this thread if tunes are available
> ...


The ‘18 in US and Canada is a Gen3b. Note on the link it just has ROW(rest of world).


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Do people even read before posting?! 

Come on, the explanation is repeated a hundred times in this very thread.


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## Philip J. Fry (Jan 1, 2005)

socialD said:


> The ‘18 in US and Canada is a Gen3b. Note on the link it just has ROW(rest of world).


Thanks for pointing that out. Honestly, APR’s website is a hot mess. I got to the link I posted by navigating through “North American Vehicles” on their site. You’d think since they have that segmentation, there would be different/no information about Mk2 Tiguan tuning there. 



Bawlti said:


> Do people even read before posting?!
> 
> Come on, the explanation is repeated a hundred times in this very thread.


See my explanation above, keyboard warrior. Sorry if me missing your earlier comments in the thread hurt your feelings or annoyed you. My bad. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Philip J. Fry said:


> socialD said:
> 
> 
> > The ‘18 in US and Canada is a Gen3b. Note on the link it just has ROW(rest of world).
> ...


Can thank VW for some of that too. Them continuing the mk1 Tiguan along in parallel as the Tiguan Limited confuses things. The APR tune will apply to that. That and some people refer to the mk1 facelift as a mk2. 
Way too early to expect much in aftermarket support for a mid size family suv that no longer has a direct engine crossover with more performance oriented siblings like the MK1 and the GTI did.


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## Lothareb (Sep 14, 2017)

I drove the CX-9. Was not impressed. The power sure did not seem more that the Tig. Reason I went for the Tig, The CX9 looks too much like all the other SUVs, meaning, kind of ugly. I also drove it at night and there was way too many things going on with dozens of lights, it was hard to concentrate on the road. Was trying to turn down the dash lighting. The salesman helped, he turned it down, then it went off and he could not bring the lighting back. Not sure what happened. During the test drive, which included freeway and side roads, about 12 miles, the MPG was very low 19.8 mpg. Drove the Tiguan the same course, and the MPG was 27.8 mpg.


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## rocket jay (Dec 19, 2016)

I called APR last week 12/20 and they said they had no tune yet for the 2018 tiguan

If you want to find out about tuning and warranty go to the golf R page there is a ton of information there


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## bateau (Jun 16, 2013)

I wonder how similar A4 Ultra engine to the one in US Tiguan. A4 specs are 190hp / 236 ft-lb and references Miller cycle. RaceChip makes a piggyback for these already. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

bateau said:


> I wonder how similar A4 Ultra engine to the one in US Tiguan. A4 specs are 190hp / 236 ft-lb and references Miller cycle. RaceChip makes a piggyback for these already.


It's pretty much the same engine, yeah


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

Bawlti said:


> It's pretty much the same engine, yeah


Yeah, it might be almost the same engine, but that does not mean that it is the same controller and controller software. It is the ECU's protection (encryption?) that has to be bypassed somehow. This will probably require some time.

Have Fun!

Don


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## bateau (Jun 16, 2013)

JSWTDI09 said:


> Yeah, it might be almost the same engine, but that does not mean that it is the same controller and controller software. It is the ECU's protection (encryption?) that has to be bypassed somehow.


I was thinking of trying a piggyback designed for A4 ultra on a Tiguan. 

BMS doesn’t have JB1 for Gen3b engines, but a couple of companies in Europe do - RaceChip and Speed-Buster. RaceChip starts at $250, might as well try it “for science”. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

bateau said:


> I was thinking of trying a piggyback designed for A4 ultra on a Tiguan.
> 
> BMS doesn’t have JB1 for Gen3b engines, but a couple of companies in Europe do - RaceChip and Speed-Buster. RaceChip starts at $250, might as well try it “for science”.
> 
> ...


BMS is currently working on a JB4 for the 2018 Tiguan gen 3B. It should be released before any ECU tune.

I can't comment on RaceChip, never heard that before. I'm wondering if it would fit?!


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## ButMudBrooks (Jul 18, 2015)

APR flash coming in March. This is coming from a certified APR dealer in TX.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

ButMudBrooks said:


> APR flash coming in March. This is coming from a certified APR dealer in TX.



:laugh::bs::laugh::bs::laugh::bs:

sorry, but i will believe it when i see it...why hasnt APR made a "press release" about it? they do with all the other cars they work on...

and if a tune does come out, i doubt it will be worth the 8-900 dollars for it. 
our little IS10 turbo and asphyxiated little 2 liter engine just doesnt have what it takes to make good numbers for us....not to mention the ****ty B cycle it currently runs...

BUT if they do come out with a tune AND it gives a good power jump...i will be first in line! hahaha


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Posted by Arin last week on a facebook mk7 group (talking about 2018 Tiguan):


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Yup. As said several times in this thread:

ECU: Bosch MG1 - New stuff. Very hard to crack. So, we can't even tune it yet. 

Engine: Bobo. It's not the normal GTI 2.0T, it's the new EPAtastic B-Cycle 2.0T. That means it has a tiny turbo (like the 1.8 golf), intake valve lift (yawn), and none of the other goodies the GTI gets. So, probably around 250 HP max on the stock turbo, vs 320 HP on the stock turbo if we got the european version (which uses the same engine as the GTI). 

:facepalm:


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yup. As said several times in this thread:
> 
> ECU: Bosch MG1 - New stuff. Very hard to crack. So, we can't even tune it yet.
> 
> ...


The gains are probably when you would hammer the throttle and get off of the B-cycle cam profile, into the "full power" cam profile.

One of the questions is, going to the power cam profile, it is also dependent on the rpm's? Is there a minimum RPM which it switches to the power cam? The old VTEC guys had VTEC controllers to get the ECU to get onto the big intake cam profile sooner.


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

BsickPassat said:


> One of the questions is, going to the power cam profile, it is also dependent on the rpm's? Is there a minimum RPM which it switches to the power cam? The old VTEC guys had VTEC controllers to get the ECU to get onto the big intake cam profile sooner.


Everything in this engine is software controlled. If/when tuners crack into the software and figure out how it works, cam profiles can be selected whenever desired. How Bosch/VW does it currently might be irrelevant. I actually suspect that this will be a significant part of any successful tune for this engine. It might only run in B-cycle mode when cruising on the expressway. 

Have Fun!

Don


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

BsickPassat said:


> One of the questions is, going to the power cam profile, it is also dependent on the rpm's? Is there a minimum RPM which it switches to the power cam? The old VTEC guys had VTEC controllers to get the ECU to get onto the big intake cam profile sooner.


It's ECU controlled. We can change the crossover points.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Yup. As said several times in this thread:
> 
> ECU: Bosch MG1 - New stuff. Very hard to crack. So, we can't even tune it yet.
> 
> ...


It's still early, but do you think a turbo upgrade is possible? IS20, IS38, something else?


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## telpwnen (Apr 11, 2017)

anyone know if we have the same engline as the 2.0 bluemotion in the ROW? Would this work?

*https://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/vr...nology-4motion-132-kw-180-ps-p-151838078.html*


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## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

Disappointing news; wife and I are likely trading in her GSW TDI this spring, and were hoping for a better outlook on this Tig motor.

If the Atlas fits in our garage, we'll go that route. Otherwise, VW doesn't offer what we want (a bit more size than the GSW, and not a snoozefest motor like the Tig).

The Atlas has the GTI or A4 2.0T, correct? If only it were offered in the AWD format...


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## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

telpwnen said:


> anyone know if we have the same engline as the 2.0 bluemotion in the ROW? Would this work?
> 
> *https://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/vr...nology-4motion-132-kw-180-ps-p-151838078.html*


Pretty sure no. "Bluemotion" and the TQ that thing puts down stock both likely point to that being a diesel variant.

EDIT: it does say TSI and 98 RON, so really not sure. The TQ number still seems fishy stock, though (and tuned)...


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## telpwnen (Apr 11, 2017)

> Pretty sure no. "Bluemotion" and the TQ that thing puts down stock both likely point to that being a diesel variant.
> 
> EDIT: it does say TSI and 98 RON, so really not sure. The TQ number still seems fishy stock, though (and tuned)...


it only has 236ft/lb of torque (6.7% more than ours) which makes sense with the better fuel grades in Europe.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Eye Candy White said:


> The Atlas has the GTI 2.0t


Yes...a tune is available or the JB1/4

The only bummer is that only S trims are on the dealer lots. You'd have to order a SE, SE w/Tech or SEL trim, which takes ~3-4months to get


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## ButMudBrooks (Jul 18, 2015)

Sad news about the turbo, didn't realize it was so small.


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

So with the cam lobes being integral to the B cycle of the engine, has anyone sparked the "make a new cam" idea for this engine? Cams have had a huge play in every other engine and its capabilities, so if the engine is lazy now with a stock B cycle lobed cam, what will it do with one that would wake it up? I loved the pep my last Tig got from the APR flash. If there is a kit that comes out with a cam upgrade and tune, I'd be happy to swap! I think the "this engine is weeeeak" naysayers may be surprised with the possibilities in this engine. Nobody knows what it is truly capable of just yet. With as much as the professional tuner companies profit off all of us :laugh: dont count them out from R&D'ing all possibilities from a new platform! Glass half full right? :beer:


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## gmitchell2 (Nov 11, 2016)

Eye Candy White said:


> Disappointing news; wife and I are likely trading in her GSW TDI this spring, and were hoping for a better outlook on this Tig motor.
> 
> If the Atlas fits in our garage, we'll go that route. Otherwise, VW doesn't offer what we want (a bit more size than the GSW, and not a snoozefest motor like the Tig).
> 
> The Atlas has the GTI or A4 2.0T, correct? If only it were offered in the AWD format...


Not for nothing, but have you driven the new Tig yet? I'm coming from a k04 GTI, APR'd 2016 1.8T Passat, a number of stage 2 GTI's, a V6 Touareg, and I honestly don't think it's as bad as just looking at the numbers on paper. I also didn't buy the Tiguan with expectations of it being any more sporty than it is. Interior quality and space, sound deadening, tech features, great in the snow (drove up to VT in 14 inches of snow), and solid handling/german feel...are the things that still keep me very very, excited about this car. On the power, I do drive in S most of the time, which still provides good gas mileage, on 87 octane which saves ~.30 a gallon vs premium, and really does have enough pep to get where I need to be because of the transmission always having a gear to drop down to. Sure, I'd love more power. But even if APR can take the car from 182hp/211tq, to 250/300, that's almost a 40% increase in power. I almost bought a GSW, and thought that was 100% the car I wanted to buy, but when I popped the trunk, I actually measured the heaight of the trunk on the GSW, and it really isn't much different than the height of the Passat trunk! The Tiguan is just awesome on the interior, especially if you go with the SE with the panoramic roof.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

I'm looking at the new Tigs right now and I think the power is ok but a tune would be nice. In fact, I'm really hoping that Burger tuning has a box for this as I think this is all the car needs. Put it back to 200hp/250tq and it would be a great ride and segment leader.


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## bateau (Jun 16, 2013)

giantsnation said:


> I'm really hoping that Burger tuning has a box for this as I think this is all the car needs. Put it back to 200hp/250tq and it would be a great ride and segment leader.


All we can do is wait. In Europe A4 Ultra (also B-cycle) tuning boxes claim increase from 190 PS to 235 PS and from 320 NM to 380 NM. That works out to 231hp/280 ft-lb on 98 RON fuel (93 octane in US). 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## GavinD (Jun 19, 2014)

gmitchell2 said:


> Not for nothing, but have you driven the new Tig yet? I'm coming from a k04 GTI, APR'd 2016 1.8T Passat, a number of stage 2 GTI's, a V6 Touareg, and I honestly don't think it's as bad as just looking at the numbers on paper. I also didn't buy the Tiguan with expectations of it being any more sporty than it is. Interior quality and space, sound deadening, tech features, great in the snow (drove up to VT in 14 inches of snow), and solid handling/german feel...are the things that still keep me very very, excited about this car. On the power, I do drive in S most of the time, which still provides good gas mileage, on 87 octane which saves ~.30 a gallon vs premium, and really does have enough pep to get where I need to be because of the transmission always having a gear to drop down to. Sure, I'd love more power. But even if APR can take the car from 182hp/211tq, to 250/300, that's almost a 40% increase in power. I almost bought a GSW, and thought that was 100% the car I wanted to buy, but when I popped the trunk, I actually measured the heaight of the trunk on the GSW, and it really isn't much different than the height of the Passat trunk! The Tiguan is just awesome on the interior, especially if you go with the SE with the panoramic roof.


I'm with you on this. We have an Alltrack and a Tiguan, and the interior space difference is huge.

Also, I really feel like the people dumping on the power levels of the 2.0TB fall into 3 categories:

Have never driven the new Tiguan
Test drove one, but never put it into Sport mode / never put their foot to the floor
Are mistaken on what the intended purpose of a vehicle like this is
Do I wish it had more power? Sure. Do I wish it was a rocket? Absolutely. But do I need that? Nope. My wife drives it, and she happily drove a diesel for years.

Mostly, I'm disappointed that the R-line still comes with the same 2.0TB motor. Wouldn't it have made way more sense to drop in the GTI or Atlas 2.0T and make the "R" in R-line actually mean something? I might have been convinced to wait and spring for the R-line if it was anything more than an appearance package.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

GavinD said:


> Mostly, I'm disappointed that the R-line still comes with the same 2.0TB motor. Wouldn't it have made way more sense to drop in the GTI or Atlas 2.0T and make the "R" in R-line actually mean something? I might have been convinced to wait and spring for the R-line if it was anything more than an appearance package.


If they did that I’m sure it would have changed the trans to DSG, and you’re looking at something more like a $5,000 cost for the R-Line package.


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## refueler (May 24, 2008)

The MQB Tiguan is a great winter car and it needs to be with the second snow storm of more than a 12" in a week. The extended wheel base of the Tiguan I think makes it handle great on snowy roads. I also think the lack of power helps improve the traction especially in snow mode. Really impressed with overall fit/finish, fuel economy(30mpg), overall interior space, the ride, and handling.


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## Passatsquared (Oct 26, 2014)

I had an SE loaner for 3 weeks and put it thru its paces. It moves like my passat 1.8t, which is not bad. 

The worst thing is the touchy gas pedal just off idle. 

The b cycle technology is pretty amazing. I was able to get 35 to 37 mpg on the highway using the cruise control at 70mph repeatedly. 

Here is a tidbit of info for you. If you think the tiguan gets short changed in the motor department, the passat is worse. It makes less power than the tiguan by design. They even put in a cast crankshaft instead of the forged one in the tiguan.


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## jaybw6 (Jan 27, 2013)

If anyone has any specific questions between the 2016 CX-9 (engine same as 17&18) and the 2018 Tiguan, let me know, I have both.


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## ADChang1 (Jan 13, 2018)

jaybw6 said:


> If anyone has any specific questions between the 2016 CX-9 (engine same as 17&18) and the 2018 Tiguan, let me know, I have both.


Curious, which do you prefer - taking into consideration the price difference?


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## jaybw6 (Jan 27, 2013)

ADChang1 said:


> jaybw6 said:
> 
> 
> > If anyone has any specific questions between the 2016 CX-9 (engine same as 17&18) and the 2018 Tiguan, let me know, I have both.
> ...


Overall I prefer the CX-9, on the basis of the engine alone. It's smoother and faster. Nevermind the weight difference, it. Is. Faster. Now, if I were driving the Tig in isolation I wouldn't likely notice. But having come from a 2009 and 2016 Tig, and a CX-5 (2.0L 150HP weak first year model) to the CX-9... I can tell the difference.

I looked on Edmunds to see the trim differences in the CX9, it seems the Touring compares more to the SEL Premium. While the Sport CX9 lands between the VW Sport and SE. Since the engines are the same for either model across all trims, if power is a priority, the CX9 wins.


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## L32 (Mar 31, 2018)

hi everyone, as in north america here in spain the top gas option is 2.0 180 (buddack cicle), we are waiting for a remap (or a decent piggyback) for this bosch mg1. searching about this i have found this page https://mailchi.mp/bflash/firstmg1 , they can remap the first generation of mg1, maybe our mg1 is near to be cracked. i have read that our turbo is small, i have take a photo of what i think is the turbo







, it says is 20, so could it be like the gti?. pd:sorry about my english


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

Another day, one day closer to getting a tune? I've only driven it for three days, and it's killing me.


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## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

Any final verdict on the turbo hardware? The pic here displaying "is20" seems promising that it is in fact not a ghastly tiny turbo, and that maybe it's just the cycle/cam/timing that is making this thing so anemic (despite not really returning what you'd call "impressive MPGs").

Anyone confirm?


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Yes, it's called IS20, but it's not the same IS20 as the GTI. It's smaller, more similar to the IS12 (from Golf 1.8T).


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

Eye Candy White said:


> Any final verdict on the turbo hardware? The pic here displaying "is20" seems promising that it is in fact not a ghastly tiny turbo, and that maybe it's just the cycle/cam/timing that is making this thing so anemic (despite not really returning what you'd call "impressive MPGs").
> 
> Anyone confirm?


this has always been my stance...they say we are getting better gas mileage, but in reality its just average to me. so lack of power really is depressing for me.

im glad i like the way the car is designed...if not, i would be going upside down in a heartbeat to get back into my GTI or another GLI hahaha


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Ford MG1 was cracked a long time ago. It's not protected like the VAG stuff.


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## speed4568 (Dec 1, 2010)

I looked at mine, it says IS20 too. Have been getting much worst mileage on the Tiguan compared to my mk6 gti. Can't get over 20 mpg. I get mid 20's to 30 mpgs on my gti, and I drive more aggressively on my gti. Doesn't look like the turbo is smaller than my gti. Hope a tune comes out soon for the Tiguan.


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## L32 (Mar 31, 2018)

I have found this https://www.br-performance.be/en-be/chiptuning/1-cars/11-audi/256-a4/7018-b9-07-2015/7274-2-0-tfsi/ , looks like first a4 ultra model didnt use bosch mg1 so it can be remaped, tiguan 2.0 is the same motor, so we can get a idea of we can achieve.
I think the worst about 2.0 tiguan is that it literally dies after 5000 rpm.


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

Who is this? Is this real? https://mychiptuningfiles.com/en/ch...swagen-tiguan/volkswagen-tiguan-2-0-tsi-180hp


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Nrth7 said:


> Who is this? Is this real? https://mychiptuningfiles.com/en/ch...swagen-tiguan/volkswagen-tiguan-2-0-tsi-180hp


Clearly fake news 

This seems to be an european company, the engine we have in North America isn't even being sold in the Tiguan over there.

Plus, the figures are way too high, this can't be true.


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## telpwnen (Apr 11, 2017)

Bawlti said:


> Clearly fake news
> 
> This seems to be an european company, the engine we have in North America isn't even being sold in the Tiguan over there.
> 
> Plus, the figures are way too high, this can't be true.


https://www.volkswagen.fr/app/confi...31120/37125/tiguan-allspace-carat?page=engine

France (thus I'm guessing most of Europe, but not the UK or I'd link a page in English) has a 180hp 2.0TSI in the allspace. That'd be our engine. They also have to pay an extra 7600 euros in taxes to get that one. Lol.


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

Bawlti said:


> Nrth7 said:
> 
> 
> > Who is this? Is this real? https://mychiptuningfiles.com/en/ch...swagen-tiguan/volkswagen-tiguan-2-0-tsi-180hp
> ...


That's the thing though, it's labeled as the lower base of 180hp, not the gti based Tig.


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

Nrth7 said:


> That's the thing though, it's labeled as the lower base of 180hp, not the gti based Tig.


I'll wait until is is labeled specifically for engine code DGUA (and maybe longer).

Have Fun!

Don


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

Honestly, the power doesn't seem right, but I'm just hoping that we're all one step closer to the market opening up.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

Burger Motorsports will definitely be the first to release something, as I think their piggyback doesn't need to crack the ECU. It should be released this spring or this summer.

When tuners finally get the crack the ECU, I would personally go with one of the the usual players: APR, Unitronic, GIAC, UM, Revo, Eurodyne, etc instead of this unknown company...


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

When we bought our Tig, our dealer who is also a tuner called around for us. They had been told (Arin may pop in if this is untrue) that APR was roughly two months out and we're in testing, and Burger was almost done.


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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Yes. Working on getting into the ECU every day. It's going to be the next big thing for VW/Audi, and it's really difficult.


I've been looking for a tune for my tiguan allspace but not sure what to select. Is the 2.0 tsi 132kw the same one in the audi q3 , because thats the only other car along with the 2015 + sirocco that i seem to find this specific power output. Any insight would be appreciated. Btw the cars we get in jamaica are more euro spec.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## blackgliguy (May 4, 2004)

I received an update from George @ BurgerTuning last night. They are close to releasing their tune for our motor. They are just waiting for a new “polo GTI” to test compatibility against before releasing. He expects that to be completed end of this month and general availability in early May. 

I am now on their list of beta users for early release so I will provide an update when I hear back...hopefully in a couple weeks.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

blackgliguy said:


> I received an update from George @ BurgerTuning last night. They are close to releasing their tune for our motor. They are just waiting for a new “polo GTI” to test compatibility against before releasing. He expects that to be completed end of this month and general availability in early May.
> 
> I am now on their list of beta users for early release so I will provide an update when I hear back...hopefully in a couple weeks.


and this is a JB stack? not an actual tune?

good news either way though.
did he happen to go into any further detail of where the power will be coming from?


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

It will be a piggyback module, not an ECU tune, but people often use "tune" as a general word for both solution.

This is great news indeed! I'm buying this on the day it's released!


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## ruedaibanez1986 (Feb 13, 2013)

Any updates with this ?????????


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

Went to my APR tuner last weekend and he downloaded what he needed from my ECU and sent it into APR with a request. I know they are working on it already, but the goal for my local guys is to send in as many requests as possible to show APR we're out here waiting with cash in hand.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Nrth7 said:


> Went to my APR tuner last weekend and he downloaded what he needed from my ECU and sent it into APR with a request. I know they are working on it already, but the goal for my local guys is to send in as many requests as possible to show APR we're out here waiting with cash in hand.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

This data is important. The more requests we have, the more likely we'll do the Tiguan over another vehicle when we get into MG1.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> This data is important. The more requests we have, the more likely we'll do the Tiguan over another vehicle when we get into MG1.


looks like i am going to my local shop and getting this done!


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## blackgliguy (May 4, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> This data is important. The more requests we have, the more likely we'll do the Tiguan over another vehicle when we get into MG1.


Personally would prefer an APR tune over alternatives...my local dealer is amazing!


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

From the sounds of his response they haven’t even started...


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## Racer709 (Jan 10, 2018)

Does each APR dealer need to send in the same ECU data or do we just need to ask the dealer to put in a request to APR from them?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Savvv said:


> From the sounds of his response they haven’t even started...


Tuning - correct. We're not into the ECU yet. However, we're working on it. The ECU platform is shared by lots of vehicles:

New A3 FWD
New Tiguan 2.0T (USA)
New S4
New S5
New A6
New A7
New RS4
New RS5
New Cayenne
New Urus
New Panamera

and more.


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## billy2.0 (Sep 20, 2002)

Subscribed opcorn:

Really want the new Tiguan but not buying one unless we can get more power!


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## KurtK (Feb 13, 2012)

greggmischenko said:


> it's not just the drop in horsepower: it's also the additional weight, different transmission/programming, and overall feel of the vehicle and driving dynamics compared to the old one. Not that the new Tiguan is bad, but it's quite a different driving experience from the 1st gen model. I had a 2011 Tiguan SE AWD for 3 years prior to my 2016 R-Line AWD and IMO the new Tiguan is targeted at a different crowd with different needs/wants in a compact SUV.
> 
> Personally, I think the entry-level and mid-range Tiguan models represent decent value and they definitely have some nice features compared to the current competition...but in looking at the SEL Premium I found it hard to justify spending that much when there are other excellent choices when you approach the $40k mark.


I agree with you. Apparently, so does the market. I've noticed that about 75% of the cars local VW dealers are stocking are S trims with a few SE's sprinkled in. I don't think I have seen more than one or two SEL Premiums on a lot since the new models were released. If I trade in my 2014, it will be to a new SEL trim vehicle with a price no higher than $32K. Or possibly the R-Line version for a little more but still below $35K for final discounted price. As the price approaches $40K, the value drops IMO and I would likely lease a Q5.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

KurtK said:


> I agree with you. Apparently, so does the market. I've noticed that about 75% of the cars local VW dealers are stocking are S trims with a few SE's sprinkled in. I don't think I have seen more than one or two SEL Premiums on a lot since the new models were released. If I trade in my 2014, it will be to a new SEL trim vehicle with a price no higher than $32K. Or possibly the R-Line version for a little more but still below $35K for final discounted price. As the price approaches $40K, the value drops IMO and I would likely lease a Q5.


this

i agree as well, i bought the SE trim with 4Motion; after comparing to the SEL there was no contest as far as price and options are concerned. 

but at the end of the day, i still think it is a matter of time, when the tune is released, not IF.


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## TX_tig (Apr 28, 2018)

Picked up my SE for 21k OTD and I couldn’t be happier, except an extra 50hp would be nice


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## RickHdz36 (Sep 3, 2009)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> this
> 
> i agree as well, i bought the SE trim with 4Motion; after comparing to the SEL there was no contest as far as price and options are concerned.
> 
> but at the end of the day, i still think it is a matter of time, when the tune is released, not IF.


I couldnt agree more! We had a 2014 SEL and traded it in for an SE. MY wife thought she would regret it but she loves it so much more. Has better technology and the AC actually cools down the car lmao our biggest complaint. For the cheaper price tag and the things it comes from the factory we do not regret getting an SE. I drive it in sport mode all the time and it feels good. But as soon as that APR tune is ready with numbers it will be getting flashed lol


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

I'm a SEL-P owner, and I am extremely pleased with it. Yes we spent a lot, but all the extra features have really paid off. There were a couple that the wife and I were both interested in, but my biggest was the programmable seats. I'm 6'4, she's just over 5'. If the seat is in her position, I can't get in the car, and I don't just mean I can't sit, I mean I can't even get my upper body in to reach the underseat lever to move the seat. The rest of the features are bonus. We probably wouldn't have gone all the way up, but we had a '17 R to trade in, and the value we got out of that was absurd. Anyways, let's get this thread back on track, everyone chatting about non tune related things is screwing with me. I open the forum and see new threads in here, it's getting my hopes up that the tune was done.


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## ruedaibanez1986 (Feb 13, 2013)

I just sent my ECU number to GIAC to see if they work on a tune for this engines, crossing fingers....


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## EPilot (Jul 27, 1999)

Please stay on topic this isn't the Passat forum.


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## ruedaibanez1986 (Feb 13, 2013)

At least we were getting some movement on this thread since APR doesn't really give us updates....... 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

ruedaibanez1986 said:


> At least we were getting some movement on this thread since APR doesn't really give us updates.......


This isn't my thread, but I've given tons of updates. I've told you what it takes, and said I would give a real update when something actually happens. 

But, if you guys don't want that, and just want updates for the sake of updates, here's one:

We're plugging along! Making progress. Things are happening. Just working hard on it. Hope to have it eventually.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

If it's that easy to crack through the security and modify the maps, it would have been done already


[email protected] said:


> This isn't my thread, but I've given tons of updates. I've told you what it takes, and said I would give a real update when something actually happens.
> 
> But, if you guys don't what that, and just want updates for the sake of updates, here's one:
> 
> We're plugging along! Making progress. Things are happening. Just working hard on it. Hope to have it eventually.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Row1Rich (Sep 11, 2001)

BsickPassat said:


> If it's that easy to crack through the security and modify the maps, it would have been done already
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Bumping this up for another update from APR


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## ABAcabby (Jul 28, 2003)

Also raising my hand to say i'd spend money on this. I am however pretty unfamiliar with how best to keep the warranty intact. Every time i ask friends about it, they say that it shouldn't affect the warranty. but... they are not the types to go to the dealership for anything either. I would suspect that's the one big thing holding back aftermarket companies from providing such a tune, is this car comes with a remarkable warranty, and who would want to loose that so early on?


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

ABAcabby said:


> Also raising my hand to say i'd spend money on this. I am however pretty unfamiliar with how best to keep the warranty intact. Every time i ask friends about it, they say that it shouldn't affect the warranty. but... they are not the types to go to the dealership for anything either. I would suspect that's the one big thing holding back aftermarket companies from providing such a tune, is this car comes with a remarkable warranty, and who would want to loose that so early on?


APR has offered their own powertrain warranty to allay that concern. Will have to see if they extend it to the Tig once cracked.
https://www.goapr.com/news/2017/12/13/apr-expands-the-apr-plus-limited-powertrain-warranty-program/


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## Bullitt_TDI (Dec 12, 2006)

ABAcabby said:


> Also raising my hand to say i'd spend money on this. I am however pretty unfamiliar with how best to keep the warranty intact. Every time i ask friends about it, they say that it shouldn't affect the warranty. but... they are not the types to go to the dealership for anything either. I would suspect that's the one big thing holding back aftermarket companies from providing such a tune, is this car comes with a remarkable warranty, and who would want to loose that so early on?


Factory VW warranty, keep it stock. A tuned ECU will be picked by the VW diagnostic system. There's a very good thread on the GOLFMK7 forums about this.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

That's only for the APR plus tune which on cars they offer it, just a mild tune.

It doesn't have the full power and torque increase of their full blown aftermarket tunes


socialD said:


> APR has offered their own powertrain warranty to allay that concern. Will have to see if they extend it to the Tig once cracked.
> https://www.goapr.com/news/2017/12/13/apr-expands-the-apr-plus-limited-powertrain-warranty-program/


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

I'm sure APR is close to cracking the ECU - they've got a new RS5 in looks like.

I'd guess they work on the RS and S Audi cars before they create maps for the Tiguan - more enthusiasts looking for more power there, I'd guess. Tiguan sells quite a few cars though, so just a matter of having people that want it.

An APR+ option for the Tiguan would play well, I think, as the population is more about modest gains and driveability more so than absolute all-out power (and maintaining some kind of powertrain warranty).

If I could get my hands on an R-Line Tiguan, I'd be all over an APR tune (love their tune on my MKV GTI).


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> That's only for the APR plus tune which on cars they offer it, just a mild tune.
> 
> It doesn't have the full power and torque increase of their full blown aftermarket tunes
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Yeah, though that mild tune is still extracting an additional 60-70 hp/tq in things like the Golf. I'd be happy with that.


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## cruzgti17 (Jun 13, 2017)

ABAcabby said:


> Also raising my hand to say i'd spend money on this. I am however pretty unfamiliar with how best to keep the warranty intact. Every time i ask friends about it, they say that it shouldn't affect the warranty. but... they are not the types to go to the dealership for anything either. I would suspect that's the one big thing holding back aftermarket companies from providing such a tune, is this car comes with a remarkable warranty, and who would want to loose that so early on?


If you care about the factory 6 year warranty then you do not want a tune because it will essentially give them an excuse out of major powertrain repairs


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

They can only use said excuse if they can find reason to blame a tune. Adding 50hp is HARDLY going to cause detrimental damage to your drivetrain. Driving like an idiot will do it though. Luckily my local dealer is tune friendly. It’s one thing if you blow off an intercooler pipe. It’s another to have bad coil packs. Can’t blame software when coil packs go bad.


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## ruedaibanez1986 (Feb 13, 2013)

Still waiting for the good news of having a tune for our ECU. Our fiends in Australia are already modifying our tigs with APR, Etunners making great numbers in the dyno.

https://youtu.be/1aZk1gIjs7s


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Row1Rich (Sep 11, 2001)

ruedaibanez1986 said:


> Still waiting for the good news of having a tune for our ECU. Our fiends in Australia are already modifying our tigs with APR, Etunners making great numbers in the dyno.
> 
> https://youtu.be/1aZk1gIjs7s
> 
> ...


Different engine & ECU to ours


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## ruedaibanez1986 (Feb 13, 2013)

Row1Rich said:


> Different engine & ECU to ours


I am not an engine or ECU expert but they say they can remap EA888 engines and getting 304 hp. I believe the ecu are different. 

https://www.etuners.gr/category/ecu-remaps/volkswagen/tiguan/ 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Row1Rich (Sep 11, 2001)

ruedaibanez1986 said:


> I am not an engine or ECU expert but they say they can remap EA888 engines and getting 304 hp. I believe the ecu are different.
> 
> https://www.etuners.gr/category/ecu-remaps/volkswagen/tiguan/
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


The whole reason for this thread being started is there's currently no software for the US version 2018 Tiguan with the "Budack Cycle" engine. It has a smaller turbo, so there's no way we'll be seeing anywhere near 300hp. I'd be happy with 220-230.


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## LarsTomasson (Jul 2, 2018)

*Don't get your hopes up*

While hoping APR cracks the new ECU, It is entirely possible that it may never happen. I am sure ECU security is a major concern for VW and they have done their best to make it uncrackable. There is also the 6 year warranty that I do not want to be voided.
On my 1999 Passat, I purchased a second ECU to be chipped, and put the original back in whenever I brought it to the dealer, so that may be an option on the Tiguan if it is ever cracked.

For those waiting to purchase a Tiguan I think the pickup on the Tiguan is reasonable when in sport mode, and it seems a little faster on premium. For the price that the base model goes for is there anything out there that is faster?


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

LarsTomasson said:


> For the price that the base model goes for is there anything out there that is faster?


Yeah it's pretty much par for the course for the competitors at the base trim. But gets into trouble at the higher trim price level where it runs into turbo models of the competition like the CR-V, Forester, Santa Fe, Sportage, Escape, etc. One of the few offerings that doesn't give a power bump with higher trims.


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## Row1Rich (Sep 11, 2001)

LarsTomasson said:


> While hoping APR cracks the new ECU, It is entirely possible that it may never happen.


Someone will crack it, like [email protected] said, this ECU platform is shared with a bunch of turbo VAG cars:

"New A3 FWD
New Tiguan 2.0T (USA)
New S4
New S5
New A6
New A7
New RS4
New RS5
New Cayenne
New Urus
New Panamera

and more."


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

As for "don't want to void my warranty..." this thread isn't for you haha


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## 16VSerenity (Jul 26, 2006)

LarsTomasson said:


> While hoping APR cracks the new ECU, It is entirely possible that it may never happen. I am sure ECU security is a major concern for VW and they have done their best to make it uncrackable. *There is also the 6 year warranty that I do not want to be voided*.
> On my 1999 Passat, I purchased a second ECU to be chipped, and put the original back in whenever I brought it to the dealer, so that may be an option on the Tiguan if it is ever cracked.
> 
> For those waiting to purchase a Tiguan I think the pickup on the Tiguan is reasonable when in sport mode, and it seems a little faster on premium. For the price that the base model goes for is there anything out there that is faster?


I'd wait for Burger Motorsport to come out with their JB1 module. I've had it one a few cars and would recommend it. It gives decent gains and you can remove it for dealer visits. It doesn't make any modifications to the ECU, while still giving you a good increase in performance, especially for the money. Of course, there is also the Neuspeed Power Module that is somewhat similar.


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

Using the search lead me here, am I mistaken but is the APR Tune not available? 

https://www.goapr.com/products/index.php?v=Tiguan&vg=2

You guys are giving me the impression that it’s not available but their site gives me another impression. 




Sent from my iPhone X using Tapatalk


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

vahdyx said:


> Using the search lead me here, am I mistaken but is the APR Tune not available?
> 
> https://www.goapr.com/products/index.php?v=Tiguan&vg=2
> 
> ...


Yes, it is not available for the US market Tiguan with the Gen 3B engine.

Note this in the application guide, rest of world only:
Volkswagen	Tiguan	MK2 / Typ 5NA	*ROW* 2.0 TSI EA888 Gen 3 - CHH, CUG & CXD	All


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

socialD said:


> Yes, it is not available for the US market Tiguan with the Gen 3B engine.
> 
> Note this in the application guide, rest of world only:
> VolkswagenTiguanMK2 / Typ 5NA*ROW*2.0 TSI EA888 Gen 3 - CHH, CUG & CXDAll


Okay I get it now. I was confused by the fact you can still drill down to it in the USA, but if you’re not observant enough (like I wasn’t lol) it says “ROW” markets like you stated. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## INASNT (Sep 4, 2011)

ruedaibanez1986 said:


> Still waiting for the good news of having a tune for our ECU. Our fiends in Australia are already modifying our tigs with APR, Etunners making great numbers in the dyno.
> 
> https://youtu.be/1aZk1gIjs7s
> 
> ...


That's my video and my car with the stage 1.

Getting stage 2 done next week.

Mods now are:

CTS Downpipe
CTS Turbo Inlet
Racingline Silicon Inlet Hose
BMC Filter
GFB DV+ Diverter Valve
Airbox Snow Grate Delete


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

INASNT said:


> ruedaibanez1986 said:
> 
> 
> > Still waiting for the good news of having a tune for our ECU. Our fiends in Australia are already modifying our tigs with APR, Etunners making great numbers in the dyno.
> ...


You guys are on Gen 3 right, not the B?


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## L32 (Mar 31, 2018)

Good news.
The bosch mg1 from BMW can be cracked, the vag ones are still impossible, but it is near i think.


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## hockeypilot20 (Sep 22, 2011)

Gents,

Spoke directly to an APR salesman at Waterfest last weekend. GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE! They've cracked the ECUs in the B Cycle engine and are talking to it. He said that's the hardest part of developing a tune in any car, and it should be a matter of 2-3 months.

He also said they are hoping to have a tune up and running by SEMA. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## LarsTomasson (Jul 2, 2018)

*Looking for second source of verification*



hockeypilot20 said:


> Gents,
> 
> Spoke directly to an APR salesman at Waterfest last weekend. GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE! They've cracked the ECUs in the B Cycle engine and are talking to it. He said that's the hardest part of developing a tune in any car, and it should be a matter of 2-3 months.
> 
> ...



Can anyone verify this?


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## hockeypilot20 (Sep 22, 2011)

LarsTomasson said:


> Can anyone verify this?


I can?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## shervsr20 (Jul 22, 2018)

Stupid question but would it be possible for the tune to be mapped only in sport mode? It'd be nice to keep the normal mode stock boost so I can enjoy good MPG. I'd gladly pay extra for this feature.


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## LarsTomasson (Jul 2, 2018)

shervsr20 said:


> Stupid question but would it be possible for the tune to be mapped only in sport mode? It'd be nice to keep the normal mode stock boost so I can enjoy good MPG. I'd gladly pay extra for this feature.


Great idea, call APR with it.


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## hockeypilot20 (Sep 22, 2011)

shervsr20 said:


> Stupid question but would it be possible for the tune to be mapped only in sport mode? It'd be nice to keep the normal mode stock boost so I can enjoy good MPG. I'd gladly pay extra for this feature.


You actually get better gas mileage with the tune, but I havent heard anything about a switch for stock and higher torque programs. Would be interesting though. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

hockeypilot20 said:


> You actually get better gas mileage with the tune,


I think that you should have said - You actually *can* get better gas mileage with the tune. You can also get worse mileage with a tune. It really depends on how you drive it Not all tunes are the same and not all drivers are the same. If you actually enjoy using the extra power from a tune, your fuel economy will probably not improve very much and it could easily go down.

Have Fun!

Don


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## hockeypilot20 (Sep 22, 2011)

JSWTDI09 said:


> I think that you should have said - You actually *can* get better gas mileage with the tune. You can also get worse mileage with a tune. It really depends on how you drive it Not all tunes are the same and not all drivers are the same. If you actually enjoy using the extra power from a tune, your fuel economy will probably not improve very much and it could easily go down.
> 
> Have Fun!
> 
> Don


Good point! 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## shervsr20 (Jul 22, 2018)

Yeah I definitely wouldn’t be getting better mpg with a tune :laugh:.... hence why I want to keep the normal driving mode stock. I’ll email APR about it.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that being able to swap tunes on the fly would require a custom ECU box probably with two separate chips you could hard toggle between.

My understanding and experience if the modes: sport, normal, eco is that all it's doing is changing the response curve of the throttle pedal, not re-tuning the engine's parameters.

Sport front-loads the pedal to ramp up more quickly with light touch, eco on the other end requires much more push to get the same pep and. Example: the torque request in sport at 10% throttle may take 30% throttle in eco mode but at that torque request value the engine is running exactly the same no matter the mode (assuming you're in the same gear in both).


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

Bug issue is storage capacity. My wife was shopping around two different tunes for her mk VII R a couple years ago. We hit up APR at Euex, and she asked if there was a way to get an eco tune, and a power tune. They gave us a heads up that the R ecu didn't have space for multiples.


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## Row1Rich (Sep 11, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> This data is important. The more requests we have, the more likely we'll do the Tiguan over another vehicle when we get into MG1.


On a scale 1-10, how close are you to releasing software for the 2.0T B cycle engine?


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

Row1Rich said:


> On a scale 1-10, how close are you to releasing software for the 2.0T B cycle engine?


LETS GOOOOOOOOO lol no really though...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Row1Rich said:


> On a scale 1-10, how close are you to releasing software for the 2.0T B cycle engine?


It's impossible to answer that question. The ECU could be cracked tomorrow. It could be cracked in a year from now. Unfortunately, until it happens, it's an unknown.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

If it could be tomorrow, it would be. If it’s not on your priority list, then it won’t be tomorrow. My guess is whoever cracks it first will dictate priority for the other tuners. Thus, everyone should be asking ALL of the tuners how they’re coming and not just one.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Savvv said:


> If it could be tomorrow, *it would be*.


No. The encryption on this ECU is considered "impossible to crack." 

They said the same thing about the last generation of ECUs. 

And the same about the ones before that....

It takes time to figure out how to get around "impossible." 



> If it’s not on your priority list, then it won’t be tomorrow.


We have multiple employees who ONLY work on this. Every single day they come to work, they are working on cracking the ECU. 

This type of ECU is in all of the new vehicles:

Anything with the B cycle engine (tiguan, A4 ultra, etc)

Any new 4.0T (C8 A6/A7/S6/S7/RS6/RS7 Lambo)

Any new 3.0T (B9 S4/S5, etc)

Any new 2.9T (B9 RS4/RS5)

So yeah, it's important. It's a priority. It's a top priority. We don't make money going forward if we don't figure it out. We'll figure it out.


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> No. The encryption on this ECU is considered "impossible to crack."
> 
> They said the same thing about the last generation of ECUs.
> 
> ...




Simone posted earlier apr had got into it and was “talking” to it. Whatever that means. Have you made some progress or are you still at square one. I know that all the forms tioned vehicles are probably the focus once in though cause the tigs aren’t high demand like most other models but I think it’s the most needed lol. Curious to see what happens with the new 1.4l going in the new golfs as well!

Good luck please stop in to keep us updated as most of us check this thread regularly


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## Wilsonium (Dec 22, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> No. The encryption on this ECU is considered "impossible to crack."
> 
> They said the same thing about the last generation of ECUs.
> 
> ...


I would just like to add that it's an arms race. Each subsequent generation closes security gaps exploited in previous generations. Think of the iPhone Jailbreak community. With each new generation of iOS and hardware, Apple has done a great job at closing the loopholes that allowed this to occur. As a result, much of the jailbreak community has been marginalized or simply given up. This is not an easy task. Also, speculation here, but with the recent smog scandal I'm sure they took some extra measures to ensure it was more secure than usual. I'm waiting for the APR flash as well and hope it happens soon but understand what it takes to do this... after all they only have a few people, not an entire jailbreaking community looking for loopholes.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

One thing for sure. When APR does figure it out and offers it, don't whine about the price either. With this much work and effort, I fully expect this is going to be an expensive tune. Just sayin'


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jhonyquest97 said:


> Simone posted earlier apr had got into it and was “talking” to it. Whatever that means. Have you made some progress or are you still at square one. I know that all the forms tioned vehicles are probably the focus once in though cause the tigs aren’t high demand like most other models but I think it’s the most needed lol. Curious to see what happens with the new 1.4l going in the new golfs as well! Good luck please stop in to keep us updated as most of us check this thread regularly


Lots of progress made, but none of it matters until we can do what we need to do to deliver a tune.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

TablaRasa said:


> One thing for sure. When APR does figure it out and offers it, don't whine about the price either. With this much work and effort, I fully expect this is going to be an expensive tune. Just sayin'


What makes you think it would cost more than the normal rate of the other 2.0T offerings? These are still just VW’s. Lots of work or not, there are a boatload of customers who will be paying off everyone’s R&D costs over the next few years. Costs only really go up based on brand of car. Audi’s cost more than VWs. RS model Audi’s cost more than standard Audi’s. Etc. They’d otherwise have a hard time selling software for a Tiguan at an $800 price point, especially based on what we’ve already been told: small turbo, stupid engine, not a LOT of hp to be gained compared to the GTI motor.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

Savvv said:


> What makes you think it would cost more than the normal rate of the other 2.0T offerings? These are still just VW’s. Lots of work or not, there are a boatload of customers who will be paying off everyone’s R&D costs over the next few years. Costs only really go up based on brand of car. Audi’s cost more than VWs. RS model Audi’s cost more than standard Audi’s. Etc. They’d otherwise have a hard time selling software for a Tiguan at an $800 price point, especially based on what we’ve already been told: small turbo, stupid engine, not a LOT of hp to be gained compared to the GTI motor.


Let me rephrase. Possibly the initial price offering would be higher to recoup some of the extensive research hours put into it, then eventually price will come down. All I am saying is, after this is all said and done, pushing APR to get this figured out, and then when they finally do, don't be surprised if the price is on the high end. As a company, what is stopping me from charging a bit more than usual especially if I am the only company working on it (no competition). Of course, this is just my speculation and ultimately APR will decide on the price point. But I will highly bet that at least one person that has been itching to tune their Tiguan, will bite the bullet even if the price is high at initial offering (especially if you have the lower trim levels, you got money to spare :laugh


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

Haha. I can assure you they aren’t the only ones working on it. I flash tunes for one of their competitors.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

Savvv said:


> Haha. I can assure you they aren’t the only ones working on it. I flash tunes for one of their competitors.


Oh that is good then! Where are they in their development? New Thread?


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

I’m just a pee-on :laugh: don’t have any info


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

There is a lot to think about when talking a price to charge. Besides the man hours, think about how many models are going to utilize this "cracking" of the Ecu. Than think how many of each of those models sell every year. APR is easily one of the most well known (if not the most well known) companies. They will tune what percent of those vehicle for how may years? Thats just to start. They still need to advertise at shows, events and online. All that dictates what they will mark it at as well as the biggest factor of all. Will they pay for it. I could say right now it would be insane to pay over $1000 for a tune but I've worked retail for 15 years and am pretty involved with a #1 company in the sporting industry as well as running my own business on the side. I've seen something cost $100 to make sell for $1600 simply because the people wanted it. As it gets old and tech evolves the price comes down. Supply and demand in a sense. Then you have to see what others are selling it for. If no one around me is coating wheels i could price you at $500 for a set and most likely get it. But if Jim is doing them for $400 i need to be at $400 or better service/product.

I'm guessing somewhere in the $600 range if we get 30hp out of the tune.

On the other hand my 18 golf is plenty fun for me to drive everyday so I don't feel very pressured to get it tuned even though i know i would love it more. so $700 isn't really grabbing me. However, the Tig being sooo slow. I think i would really really appreciate the tune much more and i may buy that before the golf tune. 

The only other company i would consider in Unitronic. But they seem to be ekind of silent on the topic.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

jhonyquest97 said:


> The only other company i would consider in Unitronic. But they seem to be ekind of silent on the topic.


From what I know, it’s because they are in the same boat. No news. Nothing good to talk about.


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

Savvv said:


> From what I know, it’s because they are in the same boat. No news. Nothing good to talk about.


Once one of them crack into it and offers it to the public, would the other companies be able to piggy back off of them? Not write the same tune obviously but would it be easier to figure out how to get it?


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## blackgliguy (May 4, 2004)

jhonyquest97 said:


> Once one of them crack into it and offers it to the public, would the other companies be able to piggy back off of them? Not write the same tune obviously but would it be easier to figure out how to get it?


Copying is the greatest form of flattery right? 😉 Cracking this new ECU seems to be the hard part.

Talked to George at Burger. They are hoping to send out a small subset of some beta testers unit real soon.


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## Suds_Zville (Aug 17, 2010)

blackgliguy said:


> Talked to George at Burger. They are hoping to send out a small subset of some beta testers unit real soon.


Sounds good, until something significantly better comes along, I'm happy with the performance gains from the Neuspeed module.


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## ruedaibanez1986 (Feb 13, 2013)

I had read in other post that the module was most exactly for our engines? What gains you got from having the module. 

Sent from my SM-G9650 using Tapatalk


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## Suds_Zville (Aug 17, 2010)

ruedaibanez1986 said:


> I had read in other post that the module was most exactly for our engines? What gains you got from having the module.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G9650 using Tapatalk


I added within 500 miles of ownership and would say the engine is certainly more drive-able with noticeable added torque. I wouldn't call it fast but IMO it is no longer slow.
Per Neuspeed: "2.0 TSI "Budack Cycle": 30+ HP / 55+ ft./lbs.Torque" and is listed as compatible. This is the 64.10.15 module.


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## HoTnFunkYGTI (Sep 14, 2018)

Se a lot of hate & Grief over the "New Budack cycle" 
Previous tunes on an engine running that cycle (Audi A4 190ps B9 2015/2016) would suggest gains of up to 235-260 hp. But I don't know if that was running dual cycles like the new engines or if they have improved on it since then. Maybe being more aggressive with the two cycles, boosting both power and economy.

According to the video below I would think a "power" tune would have the engine running only the otto cycle and base a tune around that, then you can always put it into eco mode to predominantly run it in Budack cycle.... 🤔 Just theory crafting. We will have to see... 

https://youtu.be/JjM14JBPdBI


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## HoTnFunkYGTI (Sep 14, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> Yup. As said several times in this thread:
> 
> ECU: Bosch MG1 - New stuff. Very hard to crack. So, we can't even tune it yet.
> 
> ...


Why are you giving the "ea888 Gen 3B" such a hard time, when you haven't had a chance to tune it? Is this based of the old b9 A4 from 2015/2016? 

I have seen 3 confirmations that it's an IS20 turbo and the the outer physical dimensions look comparable to those of the Golf GTI, although the compressor side looks a bit different....🤔 
Have read your posts on turbo comparisons so can see every "mm" can make a big difference, but still to call it tiny... 

Why is the B-cycle such big problem when it's defeatable / switchable with the dual profile camshaft?

Maybe the 190/200 ps are deceptively low compared to the 220-245 of the gti?!

Early numbers would suggest so...

Stock measured at the wheels 91aki: Power 172.5 WHp @ 4158 rpm Torque 321 Nm @ 3113 rpm 
Power 231.5 WHp @ 4608 rpm Torque 372 Nm @ 3048 rpm 

This would put it somewhere between a mk6 and mk7 golf gti
Or right about a
Beetle MK2 / Typ 5C & Jetta GLI MK6 / Typ 1B....🤓
Anyway will look forward to see what APR can do when you get your hands on it😁 having cracked the mg1...


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## blackgliguy (May 4, 2004)

removed because of false source


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

blackgliguy said:


> Saw this earlier today. Loving the JB4 testing and being able to adjust the maps. But for those just looking to set and forget.


i dont believe this is the same motor we have in our MQB Tigs...
we have the B-cycle Gen 3 which is completely different than the Atlas.


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## Pearlex86 (Sep 28, 2018)

So once our ecu’s get cracked that’s great for us, but in the meantime what the heck did Vw do to the atlas motor to make 235hp and return practically the same mileage as our Tiguan while running 15’s in the 1/4! Any one else feel jipped?


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

Pearlex86 said:


> So once our ecu’s get cracked that’s great for us, but in the meantime what the heck did Vw do to the atlas motor to make 235hp and return practically the same mileage as our Tiguan while running 15’s in the 1/4! Any one else feel jipped?


If you do some research you'll find that there are significant differences in the engine families.

As a new member...welcome...but you'll find that most forum members _expect_ that you'll use the search function and do some general reading before asking a question (or making a a point); otherwise you may find your posts ignored (or laughed at).


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

brian81 said:


> otherwise you may find your posts ignored (or laughed at).



or both :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Pearlex86 (Sep 28, 2018)

Typical forum😘 again we keep acting as if these motors varies so much, I understand the ecu change is the hitch and the cam profiles being altered for economy throws a wrench but honest we got the screws with the trans/engine combo...


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

I know different engine, but they officially released one for the Atlas NAR. Maybe, Tiguan is shortly after, (wishful thinking)

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...imited-Powertrain-Warranty-for-the-Atlas-2-0T!


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

TablaRasa said:


> I know different engine, but they officially released one for the Atlas NAR. Maybe, Tiguan is shortly after, (wishful thinking)
> 
> https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...imited-Powertrain-Warranty-for-the-Atlas-2-0T!


Atlas ECU OS is not Bosch MG1.


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## Pearlex86 (Sep 28, 2018)

Fat atlas gets more power and we stuck in the mud👏


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## fdones (Oct 5, 2018)

*TIGGY Looking for tune check burger they are about to release it ....hold you over till APR cracks it*

TEST UNITS ARE AVALIBLE !

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55309&highlight=tiguan


We'll use this thread for our upcoming JB4 suitable for 2.0 Gen3B powered cars updates, map guides, firmware, and discussion! 

The engine in these cars can be easily identified by the MAF sensor on the intake system circled below:



Compatible cars:

Audi A3 2.0T 184hp
Audi A4 2.0T 190hp
Audi A5 2.0T 190hp
Skoda Kodiaq 2.0T 180hp
Seat Ateca 20T 190hp
VW Aerton 2.0T 190hp
VW Tiguan 2.0T North American
VW T-Roc N1 2.0T 184hp
VW Passat 2.0T North American 174hp
VW Polo GTI 2.0T 200hp

We are currently sending out test units for general feedback. You can email me at [email protected] for further information.


Install Guide here: Follow this guide for now and skip the AFR install as we are not using the feature on the Gen3B.http://www.burgertuning.com/instruct...B4_install.pdf


Optional map changing, datalogging and updates are done using the BMS data cable or JB4 Mobile REV3 bluetooth kit.

JB4 Mobile Smart Phone wireless connection directions click here: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21742
BMS data cable hard wired directions and software click here: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showp...21&postcount=1


Pre-Release map guide:

Map0: Stock tuning, disable JB4
Map1: 3psi peak over stock
Map2: 4si peak over stock 
Map3: 5psi peak over stock (93AKI or 98Ron recommended)
Map4: Stock tuning, JB4 logging fully active

Firmware updates:

Firmware is what the software that runs the JB4 is called. We keep improving on our units by adding more features etc over time.

To upload new firmware to the unit with the Windows interface connect to the JB4 with engine off but key on. Go to File then Upload firmware and select the firmware from the location you have downloaded it. If the upload fails then try again unit it takes. Its important the data cable is secured to the JB4 circuit board.
Instructions on how to load it on the app can be found here, be sure to come to this thread when selecting the firmware: http://jb4connectkit.com/store/index...ormation_id=10

Firmware update to 26/2//5

1. Battery drain issue with OBD wire fixed
2. Small mapping changes


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

There is a dedicated Burger Tuning thread.


fdones said:


> TEST UNITS ARE AVALIBLE !
> 
> https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55309&highlight=tiguan
> 
> ...


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## jimothy cricket (Jul 9, 2008)

Suds_Zville said:


> Sounds good, until something significantly better comes along, I'm happy with the performance gains from the Neuspeed module.


I had no idea there was a simpler module available for these engines/ecu. What's most appealing to me is that the Neuspeed module is undetectable by ECU and will not void the beloved 6-year 72k warranty. Might be worth slapping on until something more substantial comes out ...and who know that might be in 6 years! (when warranty is up and a heavier-duty tune is more appealing)


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## Pelican18TQA4 (Dec 13, 2000)

Haven't owned a VW in what seems like way too long, but considering picking up a 2018 Tiguan SEL-P 4MOTION as a family car. Of course, one of the first things I'm researching is an APR flash. According to their site, if I select a MkII NAR Tiguan, they have a tune available. But, reading this thread, it seems that's not the case. What's up?


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

Pelican18TQA4 said:


> Haven't owned a VW in what seems like way too long, but considering picking up a 2018 Tiguan SEL-P 4MOTION as a family car. Of course, one of the first things I'm researching is an APR flash. According to their site, if I select a MkII NAR Tiguan, they have a tune available. But, reading this thread, it seems that's not the case. What's up?


It's not available. 

It defaults to the GTI ecu page. They have to "break into" the new ECU type to start adjusting things. Thats it. Just a waiting game. They reported to have made some progress a little while ago but no updates lately.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

New owner chiming in with interest to purchase as well. Local dealers wanting too 🙂 hopefully will get some good Christmas, maybe New Years news soon, thanks APR


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## mikeysentra (Apr 28, 2018)

I too am patiently waiting for APR to crack the ecu. Having a 14 tiggy along with a 18 sel-p R Line the 18 definitely could use a boost in the power department.


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

mikeysentra said:


> I too am patiently waiting for APR to crack the ecu. Having a 14 tiggy along with a 18 sel-p R Line the 18 definitely could use a boost in the power department.


After reading the post on Audizine about the S4 which has the same Bosch MG1 ECU, it looks like it could be years before they crack this ECU. It has taken several years in the past to crack a new type of ECU.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

It depends on who you mean by “they.” I wouldn’t be surprised to see an official tune (not talking APR) by sometime next year.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Savvv said:


> It depends on who you mean by “they.” I wouldn’t be surprised to see an official tune (not talking APR) by sometime next year.


Hope so, also would be cool i GIAC or Neuspeed came up with something too. Not that I would prefer them over APR, but may be just who is first out reaps the benefits.


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

I don't remember tuners taking so much time to crack a new ECU.

Nobody want to admit it now, but piggybacks might be the future of tuning for VW/Audi cars. Maybe tuners should start looking more seriously in this direction.

APR is now owned since 2017 by the same company which owns Dinan, a piggyback tuner. I'm just thinking out loud...


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

Bawlti said:


> I don't remember tuners taking so much time to crack a new ECU.
> 
> Nobody want to admit it now, but piggybacks might be the future of tuning for VW/Audi cars. Maybe tuners should start looking more seriously in this direction.


Just think about every time there's a new iOS update and it takes months for someone to figure out a jailbreak for it, meanwhile the iOS has been updated atleast once by the time it comes out. The software engineers have to keep building up the security of their computers for various reasons, and last thing they're gonna do is just hand over the keys to the front door to the tuning companies. Thankfully, as noted previously, we share an ECU with other "priority" vehicles in the VAG fleet. 

Back in the day, I ran a Mk4 1.8T on a GT2871R with 630cc injectors, a GIAC X+ stock turbo tune, a diode on the MAP sensor wiring, and the stock MAF sensor mounted in an Audi S4 MAF housing. Made 380-some wheel horsepower on a DynoJet. With the way these newer vehicles are, and the amount of electronics that tie everything together, I'd much rather wait for software that utilizes every sensor to its fullest potential as opposed to fooling them to make more power. Maybe it's me getting old, but maybe there's some truth to it also.


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## L32 (Mar 31, 2018)

https://youtu.be/fHEmp3zG93U 
Looks like someone have cracked it?


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

I think someone was also experimenting with JB4 on EA888 3B, not sure it got anywhere... 

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=608845



Also contacted GIAC, no release as of yet either..

No biggie for me, my daily is GTI, but sure looking forward to an nice APR tune, maybe a carbon intake for Christmas.. I sent my letter to the N. Pole!!


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## Ravenstyle83 (Jan 5, 2016)

APR has a link for the Tiguan that unfortunately sends you to a GTI tune page. This would be a great thing to have for the 2018-2019 Tiguan if APR would please follow through. Here is the link https://www.goapr.com/news/2017/02/17/apr-presents-the-new-tiguan-2-0-tsi-ecu-upgrade-row-market/


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

Ravenstyle83 said:


> APR has a link for the Tiguan that unfortunately sends you to a GTI tune page. This would be a great thing to have for the 2018-2019 Tiguan if APR would please follow through. Here is the link https://www.goapr.com/news/2017/02/17/apr-presents-the-new-tiguan-2-0-tsi-ecu-upgrade-row-market/


Hmmmm... Somone hasnt read through the thread... I’ll sum it up for you.. They’re still working on it.


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## adema69 (Jun 4, 2006)

Ravenstyle83 said:


> APR has a link for the Tiguan that unfortunately sends you to a GTI tune page. This would be a great thing to have for the 2018-2019 Tiguan if APR would please follow through. Here is the link https://www.goapr.com/news/2017/02/17/apr-presents-the-new-tiguan-2-0-tsi-ecu-upgrade-row-market/


There is a big emphasis on the ROW rest of the world ie meaning the us blows lol


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Ravenstyle83 said:


> APR has a link for the Tiguan that unfortunately sends you to a GTI tune page. This would be a great thing to have for the 2018-2019 Tiguan if APR would please follow through. Here is the link https://www.goapr.com/news/2017/02/17/apr-presents-the-new-tiguan-2-0-tsi-ecu-upgrade-row-market/


We have software for the European Tiguan. It's basically a GTI over there.


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

If you click on North America and head to VW and then Tiguan and 5NA 2nd Gen, it takes you to the GTi page. It shouldn't!


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## Row1Rich (Sep 11, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> We have software for the European Tiguan. It's basically a GTI over there.


:banghead:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

DasTeknoViking said:


> If you click on North America and head to VW and then Tiguan and 5NA 2nd Gen, it takes you to the GTi page. It shouldn't!


NA / International just changes the vehicle names / dates in the drop down menu to comply with differences across the world. I don't keep two separate listings for product pages on every vehicle.


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## litespeed600 (Nov 4, 2013)

I find it crazy that after all this time still no tune available from you guy.......The Burger unit is getting 0-60 times of 7 seconds.....not shabby.

Wish you guys would come out with some friendly competition.

Tom


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

litespeed600 said:


> I find it crazy that after all this time still no tune available from you guy.......The Burger unit is getting 0-60 times of 7 seconds.....not shabby.
> 
> Wish you guys would come out with some friendly competition.
> 
> Tom


They aren’t the only ones having a tough time.


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## kaatmaca (Dec 5, 2018)

Sorry I'm late to the party here - I'm currently looking at a new Tiguan, but like most of you.. want more power. 

Is this tune linked below not for the latest motor? Thanks in advance everyone. 

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

kaatmaca said:


> Sorry I'm late to the party here - I'm currently looking at a new Tiguan, but like most of you.. want more power.
> 
> Is this tune linked below not for the latest motor? Thanks in advance everyone.
> 
> https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html


No APR has falsely been advertising the wrong link for the last year for the NA Tiggy. 

Ea888B has no tune for it. BUT you can do a Neuspeed module or a JB4 on it for about 30hp 50TQ gain. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Row1Rich (Sep 11, 2001)

kaatmaca said:


> Sorry I'm late to the party here - I'm currently looking at a new Tiguan, but like most of you.. want more power.
> 
> Is this tune linked below not for the latest motor? Thanks in advance everyone.
> 
> https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb.html


That's the 2.0 TSI motor found in the GTi. Tiguan has the "Budack/Miller Cycle" 2.0 TSI motor.


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## kaatmaca (Dec 5, 2018)

DasTeknoViking said:


> No APR has falsely been advertising the wrong link for the last year for the NA Tiggy.
> 
> Ea888B has no tune for it. BUT you can do a Neuspeed module or a JB4 on it for about 30hp 50TQ gain.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Damn - that's too bad. 

Do they plan on developing a tune? This video got me pretty excited about what was possible with this motor. There's just no real information included, so I assumed it was APR. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W_qWGD4ODQ


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## scirockalot8v (Sep 16, 2006)

I doubt that is the B cycle 2.0. It doesn't sound like it's going to rattle itself apart.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## litespeed600 (Nov 4, 2013)

kaatmaca said:


> Damn - that's too bad.
> 
> Do they plan on developing a tune? This video got me pretty excited about what was possible with this motor. There's just no real information included, so I assumed it was APR.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W_qWGD4ODQ


I would have bought that the day it came out if we could get it!

That is fast!

Tom


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## kaatmaca (Dec 5, 2018)

What a bummer  

The thought of giving this car some nut had me giving up my search for a used SQ5.


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## Audib517 (Feb 3, 2015)

Just turn the knob to sport mode. It’s drives quicker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

Or buy a Tiguan Limited. Gen1 TSi is just fine in that car. K04 swap it with a few bolt ons and you got a 320awhp little car.

Too bad that the Gen2 Tiggy is a such turd when it comes to engine. It's the right size for my family, I guess Mazda CX5 Turbo is a better choice and doesn't have a weak sauce engine. I am sure VW gives zero fuqs about the constant lamenting of power deficit in the new Tig. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Triple6 (Jan 2, 2019)

I don't know if I had posted it before but I bought a Race chip ( https://www.racechip.us/shop/vw/tiguan-ii-ad-from-2016/2-0-tsi-1984ccm-177hp-132kw-236lb-ft.html) from Germany. I ordered the RS version and it made a helleva difference from stock. I'm not saying 10 second car or anything but big improvement.


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## Audib517 (Feb 3, 2015)

Any videos or photos of the chip that you bought for you tiggy?


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

Those piggybacks from Racechip work rather well. I have seen them make a lot of extra power on diesel engines.

Best thing about it, unlike a flash = warranty can be preserved. Most technicians don't know wtf they are looking at when crunching freeze frame data. Remove the device before service work and preserve your warranty. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Triple6 (Jan 2, 2019)

Audib517 said:


> Any videos or photos of the chip that you bought for you tiggy?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have not sat down and tried to figure out how to upload pics on this site. If someone could explain it to me I could possibly do that.


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## Triple6 (Jan 2, 2019)

DasTeknoViking said:


> Those piggybacks from Racechip work rather well. I have seen them make a lot of extra power on diesel engines.
> 
> Best thing about it, unlike a flash = warranty can be preserved. Most technicians don't know wtf they are looking at when crunching freeze frame data. Remove the device before service work and preserve your warranty.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Exactly. Took me a little time to put it in buy when I removed it to take the car in for service, It took 10 mins. I used Velcro straps instead of zip ties and it made it much easier and faster to remove.


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## Audib517 (Feb 3, 2015)

Triple6 said:


> Exactly. Took me a little time to put it in buy when I removed it to take the car in for service, It took 10 mins. I used Velcro straps instead of zip ties and it made it much easier and faster to remove.


Any photos? And DIY installation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ravenstyle83 (Jan 5, 2016)

DasTeknoViking said:


> Or buy a Tiguan Limited. Gen1 TSi is just fine in that car. K04 swap it with a few bolt ons and you got a 320awhp little car.
> 
> Too bad that the Gen2 Tiggy is a such turd when it comes to engine. It's the right size for my family, I guess Mazda CX5 Turbo is a better choice and doesn't have a weak sauce engine. I am sure VW gives zero fuqs about the constant lamenting of power deficit in the new Tig.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


 The new motor is making these figures using 87 octane not 93 like the previous gen motor. Bumping it up to a 93 tune i am guessing will add 25 - 30% more power, which is up to 239hp and 293 torque.


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

Ravenstyle83 said:


> The new motor is making these figures using 87 octane not 93 like the previous gen motor. Bumping it up to a 93 tune i am guessing will add 25 - 30% more power, which is up to 239hp and 293 torque.


No it won't make any more power. It's optimized to run on 87. Putting 93 in it is a waste of money. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## litespeed600 (Nov 4, 2013)

DasTeknoViking said:


> No it won't make any more power. It's optimized to run on 87. Putting 93 in it is a waste of money.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


It is needed with a tune though! 😁

Tom


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

litespeed600 said:


> It is needed with a tune though!
> 
> Tom


What tune you speak of? CCTA tune or Budack? 

My CCTA loves my K04 plus Mabotech. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Ravenstyle83 (Jan 5, 2016)

DasTeknoViking said:


> Ravenstyle83 said:
> 
> 
> > The new motor is making these figures using 87 octane not 93 like the previous gen motor. Bumping it up to a 93 tune i am guessing will add 25 - 30% more power, which is up to 239hp and 293 torque.
> ...


 That’s why APR develops tunes for 93 octane gas. That’s entirely what i meant, a guesstimate once it’s on the market. We all know the stock motor won’t make much if anything with higher octane gas.


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

Tiguan R-Line or Atlas R-Line for me next. Someone show me the tunes lol. 

I have the Tiguan SE but really wish I went R-Line


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## pillpusher84 (Apr 30, 2015)

vahdyx said:


> Tiguan R-Line or Atlas R-Line for me next. Someone show me the tunes lol.
> 
> I have the Tiguan SE but really wish I went R-Line
> 
> ...


Want mine? It's literally brand new. I bought it 3 months ago and haven't driven it. I got a company car, and bought a truck for my personal vehicle in the interim due to issues with my old plow vehicle, so it's literally been sitting brand new in the garage for 4 months with 200 miles on it


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

pillpusher84 said:


> Want mine? It's literally brand new. I bought it 3 months ago and haven't driven it. I got a company car, and bought a truck for my personal vehicle in the interim due to issues with my old plow vehicle, so it's literally been sitting brand new in the garage for 4 months with 200 miles on it


Possibly? Lease take over or loan?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

schagaphonic said:


> I'm within 500ft of your elevation.
> * SE or other?
> * color, in and out?
> * '19?
> * sunroof?


Maybe I missed this and you can answer too but where is he? Also I also missed if this was an Atlas or Tiguan... I’m assuming Tiggy since we’re in that forum but my post stated both Atlas and Tiguan lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## schagaphonic (Aug 24, 2008)

" Maybe I missed this and you can answer too but where is he? Also I also missed if this was an Atlas or Tiguan... I’m assuming Tiggy since we’re in that forum but my post stated both Atlas and Tiguan lol."


HA! I must have screwed up and thought you had the Tiguan for sale and lived near Denver. 
I'm looking for a new or nearly new '19 SE. Sorry for any confusion or diversion on this thread.


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

schagaphonic said:


> " Maybe I missed this and you can answer too but where is he? Also I also missed if this was an Atlas or Tiguan... I’m assuming Tiggy since we’re in that forum but my post stated both Atlas and Tiguan lol."
> 
> 
> HA! I must have screwed up and thought you had the Tiguan for sale and lived near Denver.
> I'm looking for a new or nearly new '19 SE. Sorry for any confusion or diversion on this thread.


Oh haha no, my wife’s getting my Tiguan SE (which is currently driving a 2017 Jetta she no longer has interest in after Tiguan came in our lives) and I’m gonna get either an Atlas R-Line or a Tiguan R-Line. 

I am near Denver though lol. 


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

Ravenstyle83 said:


> That’s why APR develops tunes for 93 octane gas. That’s entirely what i meant, a guesstimate once it’s on the market. We all know the stock motor won’t make much if anything with higher octane gas.


I wouldn't hold my breath for APR and just get a Neuspeed or JB4 module. No warranty issues either.

There are 91/93 tunes out there for the 2.0T non-Budack which make great power. 

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Bubbasalltrack (Feb 4, 2019)

Total rookie mistake, screwed up and just traded our Alltrack in on an R-line Tiguan thinking the is38 swap was available from apr. We had the apr plus on the Alltrack and really enjoyed it and planned on going is38. Was offered a good deal on the Tiguan so I jumped on apr's website and seen what I thought was an is38 tune for the USA Tiguan so we made the deal. I should have done more research. Really bummed and wished we still had the Alltrack now. 

lesson learned I guess.


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Bubbasalltrack said:


> Total rookie mistake, screwed up and just traded our Alltrack in on an R-line Tiguan thinking the is38 swap was available from apr. We had the apr plus on the Alltrack and really enjoyed it and planned on going is38. Was offered a good deal on the Tiguan so I jumped on apr's website and seen what I thought was an is38 tune for the USA Tiguan so we made the deal. I should have done more research. Really bummed and wished we still had the Alltrack now.
> 
> lesson learned I guess.


Yeah, I feel that. Just assumed APR would have tunes by now. But now we’re halfway through the lease so even if one came out wouldn’t bother to get one. Give it some time.
In reality here in the Portland metro area there isn’t much room to stretch its legs due to traffic. Though it is nice and torquey off the line around town. Leave most other vehicles behind at the light without even doing it intentionally. Of course in an actual race it would struggle to beat a Prius. Just falls on its face in higher rpms. Does still manage to have decent passing power in the mountains thankfully.
We traded in a V6 RAV4 which was a rocket in comparison but don’t really miss the power anymore at all.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

DasTeknoViking said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath for APR and just get a Neuspeed or JB4 module. No warranty issues either.
> 
> There are 91/93 tunes out there for the 2.0T non-Budack which make great power.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk



So what is your take on the Neuspeed? Worth the $$?? Feel like it's one of those late night infomercials ...


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

I’m still holding out for a BETA of whatever Unitronic can come up with. I’ve bugged my dudes up there enough about it. :laugh: Told them to stop prioritizing the S model Audi’s and new Golf R’s. Already come with plenty of power stock, so it’s not like they need the tune as badly as we do!


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

Based on the current deals VW is running in my neck of the woods I might be picking one up for my wife. I am not happy with the power as it will be used as a family ride. JB4 has been reporting some good gains on their Budack 2.0T, dyno shows 35+whp and 40+tq on just the first stage. Some have been running 2 and 3 with even more power. No issues with TD1 too, win win in my book

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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

so far I know this much

GIAC - not working on anything currently
APR ~ snooze button

Neuspeed - really not sure if this will do anything at all, only dyno posted GTI... LOL

JB4?
Unitronic ?

Anyone else? 

Man I miss the good ol days...


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55309

Here you go, don't wait for the big "tuners" to joint the party. 

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## blackgliguy (May 4, 2004)

I was one of the first with the JB4 on this motor and Tiguan. I have been running a custom map 6 and it is a night and day difference to stock! Just noticed local to you as well. 

I’m a huge APR fan boy but it appears their R&D is not going in this platform and version of the motor. Apparently the 200’ish soccer dads or so of us on this forum and Facebook groups isn’t a target market.


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## n0thing (Mar 30, 2014)

https://www.chipwerke.com/product/volkswagen-tiguan-2-0-tsi-184-hp-chipwerke-pro/

Not fully sure who these guys are but it looks like another tuning option for the Tiguan has emerged.


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

blackgliguy said:


> I was one of the first with the JB4 on this motor and Tiguan. I have been running a custom map 6 and it is a night and day difference to stock! Just noticed local to you as well.
> 
> I’m a huge APR fan boy but it appears their R&D is not going in this platform and version of the motor. Apparently the 200’ish soccer dads or so of us on this forum and Facebook groups isn’t a target market.


This isn't true. The issue is with our ECU which is shared among many of the new Audis. APR is working on this issue and continues to work on it. Some ECUs can take years to find the necessary vulnerabilities to be able to flash through OBD2. Obviously the ECU designers and car manufacturers do not want aftermarket companies like APR to be able to modify their ECUs so they are making them harder and harder to get into.

Google Audizine Bosch MG1 and check out the APR S4 Development thread.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Well looks like BT has available now http://www.burgertuning.com/vw_volkswagen_Group8_Jb4_tuner.html


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

MisterF said:


> This isn't true. The issue is with our ECU which is shared among many of the new Audis. APR is working on this issue and continues to work on it. Some ECUs can take years to find the necessary vulnerabilities to be able to flash through OBD2. Obviously the ECU designers and car manufacturers do not want aftermarket companies like APR to be able to modify their ECUs so they are making them harder and harder to get into.
> 
> Google Audizine Bosch MG1 and check out the APR S4 Development thread.


I was told by my retailer for APR that APR is prioritizing the higher headroom systems in the Audis before they come back to the Tig's new engine config. It's a matter of marketing, you see. They're better off being able to sell to the higher end performance market than the Tig's marketing segment of "family fun car". With tunes the Tig is really fun to drive but how many people are buying it hoping to tune it later is an open question.


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

gerardrjj said:


> I was told by my retailer for APR that APR is prioritizing the higher headroom systems in the Audis before they come back to the Tig's new engine config. It's a matter of marketing, you see. They're better off being able to sell to the higher end performance market than the Tig's marketing segment of "family fun car". With tunes the Tig is really fun to drive but how many people are buying it hoping to tune it later is an open question.


The Tiguan is not the only car with this new ECU that they cannot crack.

Take a look and see which other Audis have the Bosch MG1 ECU, as I cannot remember off the top of my head.
I'm not very knowledgeable about the different Audi models. Would you consider the S4 as being in the higher end performance market?

Here is a quote from [email protected] from the S4 thread:
"The S4 / S5 tune is a top priority, and has been for quite some time. The only issue is cracking into the ECU. Every tuner is trying to crack the ECU so it can be flashed. The problem is, it's super difficult to do. Until that happens, we can't offer a tune." 09-24-2018 09:50 AM

Keep in mind it is the same ECU, so when the S4 is cracked then they will be able to release a tune for the Tiguan as well.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/774678-The-APR-S4-Development-Car-is-Here!/page6


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

MisterF said:


> Keep in mind it is the same ECU, so when the S4 is cracked then they will be able to release a tune for the Tiguan as well.


I want to be clear, the cars won't have the same tune because they do not have the same engine. And APR will probably put out a tune for the S4/S5 first. But as it sits neither the S4 or Tiguan can be tuned at all until they figure out a way to break into the Bosch MG1 ECU(Which both cars use).

What I am trying to say is this Bosch MG1 ecu IS a priority for APR to crack. Once they can get into it and flash it they or any other company should be able to make a tune for the E888 3B engine in the Tig as well.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

MisterF said:


> Obviously the ECU designers and car manufacturers do not want aftermarket companies like APR to be able to modify their ECUs so they are making them harder and harder to get into.


Actually, it has less to do with the aftermarket tuners and more to do with:

1. Security of the vehicle in general, as auto theft continues to make strides in technology to be able to drive off with an S Class Mercedes.
2. Competing ECU vendors (Bosch vs Siemens vs etc) do not want their competitors to be able to get into each other’s hardware. 

VW/Audi have proven themselves over the last couple decades to be an aftermarket supporting car manufacturer. They know they have a following of folks like us.


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

Savvv said:


> Actually, it has less to do with the aftermarket tuners and more to do with:
> 
> 1. Security of the vehicle in general, as auto theft continues to make strides in technology to be able to drive off with an S Class Mercedes.
> 2. Competing ECU vendors (Bosch vs Siemens vs etc) do not want their competitors to be able to get into each other’s hardware.
> ...


Thank you for the correction Savvv!

Don't you think that being able to tune an S5 would hurt the sales of the RS5?


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Savvv said:


> Actually, it has less to do with the aftermarket tuners and more to do with:
> 
> 1. Security of the vehicle in general, as auto theft continues to make strides in technology to be able to drive off with an S Class Mercedes.
> 2. Competing ECU vendors (Bosch vs Siemens vs etc) do not want their competitors to be able to get into each other’s hardware.
> ...



3. to avoid getting caught in diesel gate again  - just saying

anyways, thinking about pulling trigger on the JB4 since it is now available (albeit in "beta"). Wondering if any of the testers are here and what they think


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## blackgliguy (May 4, 2004)

christophe15 said:


> Savvv said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, it has less to do with the aftermarket tuners and more to do with:
> ...


I started a thread in here for the JB4. A simple search will get you there.


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

I've just read that the new Porsche 911 (992 generation) has the same Bosch MG1 ECU that we have. So cracking this ECU is definitely a priority.


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## 1054521247 (Jun 17, 2018)

does anyone know if this product works? 
it says "Safely gain up to +35 HP and up to +5 MPG in fuel mileage in your Volkswagen Tiguan by safely optimizing your air/fuel ratio and timing curve for increased efficiency!"
https://www.amazon.com/Innovative-P...----&vehicleName=2018+Volkswagen+Tiguan&psc=1


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

No stay away from that junk. 

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## Sportster (Jun 9, 2003)

gerardrjj said:


> how many people are buying it hoping to tune it later is an open question.


The only reason we decided to buy the new Tiguan was because I believed a tune would be available so that I could fix the horrible performance. I literally told my wife we could fix it when we were at the dealer. The dealer even heard me and agreed that you can always tune these things. Everyone who asks my wife if she likes the vehicle gets this response "It's okay but its really slow, I wouldn't buy it again. I preferred my Volvo."

Do you know how annoying it is when your wife is constantly complaining about something? :banghead:


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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

Sportster said:


> The only reason we decided to buy the new Tiguan was because I believed a tune would be available so that I could fix the horrible performance. I literally told my wife we could fix it when we were at the dealer. The dealer even heard me and agreed that you can always tune these things. Everyone who asks my wife if she likes the vehicle gets this response "It's okay but its really slow, I wouldn't buy it again. I preferred my Volvo."
> 
> Do you know how annoying it is when your wife is constantly complaining about something? :banghead:


Sounds like you should order the JB4 asap.


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## Northernont2019 (Feb 3, 2019)

Sportster said:


> The only reason we decided to buy the new Tiguan was because I believed a tune would be available so that I could fix the horrible performance. I literally told my wife we could fix it when we were at the dealer. The dealer even heard me and agreed that you can always tune these things. Everyone who asks my wife if she likes the vehicle gets this response "It's okay but its really slow, I wouldn't buy it again. I preferred my Volvo."
> 
> Do you know how annoying it is when your wife is constantly complaining about something? :banghead:


I am thinking a Porsche 911 would do the trick! :laugh:


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

socialD said:


> Sounds like you should order the JB4 asap.


Sounds like he shouldn’t compare a Tiguan to a Volvo.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

Sportster said:


> Do you know how annoying it is when your wife is constantly complaining about something? :banghead:


Do bears sh*t in the woods?


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## Sportster (Jun 9, 2003)

Northernont2019 said:


> I am thinking a Porsche 911 would do the trick! :laugh:


I have an older C2. The wife wants trunk space otherwise she would use it in the summer. I have really been considering selling my C2 and getting a new RSQ3. That 5 cylinder is nice and I can really do a lot to it. Not sure how long her license will last. :facepalm:


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

socialD said:


> Sounds like you should order the JB4 asap.



+1


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Northernont2019 said:


> I am thinking a Porsche 911 would do the trick! :laugh:


well I did try to make my case when my wife wanted to go the SUV route... Cayenne GTS was an SUV I could get behind


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Bawlti said:


> Sounds like he shouldn’t compare a Tiguan to a Volvo.



what you mean this? 

http://www.thecarmagazine.com/2017/...ar-models-good-for-421-hp-if-you-can-get-one/

I mean probably at nearly double the cost on a Tiguan... But sometime the smile on face when hitting the accelerator is priceless.


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

You would be crazy to sell a appreciating classic for a glorified hairdressers car. I don't care if there are 5 5-cylinder engines mounted inside. You can't get the driver's car feeling in almost any new car these days.

Sigh... Still no answer from Apr. They must be busy designing wheels and expensive big brake kits 2 people will buy. 

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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

DasTeknoViking said:


> You would be crazy to sell a appreciating classic for a glorified hairdressers car. I don't care if there are 5 5-cylinder engines mounted inside. You can't get the driver's car feeling in almost any new car these days.
> 
> Sigh... Still no answer from Apr. They must be busy designing wheels and expensive big brake kits 2 people will buy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


If they can't crack this their business is dead.


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

socialD said:


> If they can't crack this their business is dead.


It's been dead for a while if you ask me. Anyone who knows better buys "insert brand X tune here" . If you were a B5 S4 owner back in the day you know what I mean. 

I once had their tune for 24hrs on my car... I had it removed before it expired actually. Wife's GTi has had a Apr tune for 10 years. She could care less if it didn't thou... 

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## socialD (Sep 19, 2011)

DasTeknoViking said:


> It's been dead for a while if you ask me. Anyone who knows better buys "insert brand X tune here" . If you were a B5 S4 owner back in the day you know what I mean.
> 
> I once had their tune for 24hrs on my car... I had it removed before it expired actually. Wife's GTi has had a Apr tune for 10 years. She could care less if it didn't thou...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Well other tuners likely wouldn't be able to crack it either in that case.


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

socialD said:


> Well other tuners likely wouldn't be able to crack it either in that case.


No one has been able to crack it yet. Hence no tunes, only piggyback devices.


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

MisterF said:


> No one has been able to crack it yet. Hence no tunes, only piggyback devices.


Wrong.. Company in Holland is selling a tune not a piggyback for a B9 S4. 

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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

DasTeknoViking said:


> Wrong.. Company in Holland is selling a tune not a piggyback for a B9 S4.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Link?


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

DasTeknoViking said:


> Wrong.. Company in Holland is selling a tune not a piggyback for a B9 S4.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


I'd also like a link. 

I see a few claims out there, but no actual proof yet for a tune.

EDIT: Unless it literally just came out today it would be blowing up the Audizine B9 S4 Forum. But, no mention of it whatsoever.
Those guys are also dying for a tune. lol


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

https://www.br-performance.be/nl-be...11-audi/455-s4/8340-b9-2016/8341-s4-3-0-tfsi/

Bmw uses the same DME as Audi. Encryption was recently cracked on the Bmw ecus. Audi one runs a different encryption. 

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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

DasTeknoViking said:


> https://www.br-performance.be/nl-be...11-audi/455-s4/8340-b9-2016/8341-s4-3-0-tfsi/
> 
> Bmw uses the same DME as Audi. Encryption was recently cracked on the Bmw ecus. Audi one runs a different encryption.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Right, the encryption on the Audi and VW has not been cracked yet. So, is that link an actual tune? If they haven't cracked it how have they tuned it?


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

DasTeknoViking;113155259... I had it removed before it expired actually. Wife's GTi has had a Apr tune for 10 years. She could care less if it didn't thou...
Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE said:


> how much less could she care?


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

gerardrjj said:


> how much less could she care?


To the point that it was on a stock tune for almost a year. I had my buddy flash it back to Stage 1. It was Stage 2+ with a HPFP upgrade and catless downpipe. But emissions came and all that stuff had to come off so I could get it to pass emissions. I have no problem passing emissions with my Eurodyne Maestro on mu TSI.

Getting off topic here. 

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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

MisterF said:


> Right, the encryption on the Audi and VW has not been cracked yet. So, is that link an actual tune? If they haven't cracked it how have they tuned it?


Actual tune. I take it back it's not a Dutch firm, but Belgian one. They speak Dutch which threw me off. 

https://www.br-performance.be/nl-be...swagen/3145-tiguan/7267-nz-2016/8240-2-0-tsi/ Tiguan Budack engine tune. 

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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

DasTeknoViking said:


> Actual tune. I take it back it's not a Dutch firm, but Belgian one. They speak Dutch which threw me off.
> 
> https://www.br-performance.be/nl-be...swagen/3145-tiguan/7267-nz-2016/8240-2-0-tsi/ Tiguan Budack engine tune.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


I did a deep dive search 7 months ago and saw this but it seemed fake...there are a couple other European firms supposedly offering a tune for the gen 3b engine and it seems Abt tuning may have something as well..
https://www.abt-sportsline.com/vw-tuning/vw-tiguan/

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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

I seen ABT as well, but it seems like a piggyback. Currently that's all that's out there for the Budack. 

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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

DasTeknoViking said:


> Actual tune. I take it back it's not a Dutch firm, but Belgian one. They speak Dutch which threw me off.
> 
> https://www.br-performance.be/nl-be...swagen/3145-tiguan/7267-nz-2016/8240-2-0-tsi/ Tiguan Budack engine tune.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Google translate is your friend.
"in ontwikkeling" means "in development"
Fake news again... anyway I wouldn't buy a tune from a random unknown tuner.


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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

Bawlti said:


> Google translate is your friend.
> "in ontwikkeling" means "in development"
> Fake news again... anyway I wouldn't buy a tune from a random unknown tuner.


Thought so 

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

At bottom, translate blue button, put me on waiting list, enter email and get some Spam 🙂


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

Here is what I got back this morning.









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## [email protected] (Feb 28, 2007)

Hoping to see some tuners to be able to tune the VAG MG1 soon... The B9 A4 and S4, A3 are now b-cycle...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Hopefully soon, but you never know. A lot is MG1 these days. 

A3/Tiguan/Passat/Etc - 2.0T-B
A4/A5 - 2.0T-B
S4/S5/A6/A7/A8 - 3.0T
RS4/RS5/Etc - 2.9T
Urus/RS6/RS7 - 4.0T
Porsche 991.2
etc etc etc


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## [email protected] (Feb 28, 2007)

These MG1 are so complicated... I know you'll do it but it's a hard one! Far away from the previous med17!


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## Rmzhrb (Mar 10, 2018)

Anyone know if there are any updates on the Gen3b tunes?


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## MisterF (Jul 26, 2018)

Rmzhrb said:


> Anyone know if there are any updates on the Gen3b tunes?


No tune yet.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Junkie1.8TQ (Jan 29, 2007)




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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

If there isn't one already I bet the Arteon gets one first. 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

vahdyx said:


> If there isn't one already I bet the Arteon gets one first.


All depends on the ECU type. If it’s the same Bosch ECU used in all the other new cars, it’ll be just as long.


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## vahdyx (Feb 7, 2012)

Savvv said:


> All depends on the ECU type. If it’s the same Bosch ECU used in all the other new cars, it’ll be just as long.


Makes sense... could one assume that if the Tiguan gets cracked first the Arteon gets it sooner since they're the same ECU type?

This is a huge deviation from my original thought but an alternative thought based on yours. Long way of saying I'm adding to it not arguing. 

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

vahdyx said:


> Makes sense... could one assume that if the Tiguan gets cracked first the Arteon gets it sooner since they're the same ECU type?


Market demand will drive this. I know for sure that as soon as this style ECU gets cracked, the first cars to get tunes made will be the S4 and S5 and whatever other S model is out there. By then, I could see the Arteon getting a tune just bc it’s new but at the same time, you’ve got Tig customers out the wazoo begging for more legitimate power. It’s all conjecture.


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## uhhi129 (May 6, 2019)

With the news of other companies starting to crack the mqb ecu I reached out to APR today to get a status update. Spoiler alert they aren’t ready yet but the full response seemed promising. 

“Thanks for reaching out, we are still working on cracking the ECU in the new Tiguan. We've had an extremely large number of request for this software so it is definitely a priority to us. Unfortunately I do not have a timeline as that will depend on how much longer development will require. Once we finish up development on the ECU side this will certainly be one of the first vehicles we will look to offer software for on this new MG1 ECU platform.”

It’s great to hear they have received a lot of requests. Hoping it helps push along development. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Junkie1.8TQ (Jan 29, 2007)




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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

uhhi129 said:


> With the news of other companies starting to crack the mqb ecu I reached out to APR today to get a status update. Spoiler alert they aren’t ready yet but the full response seemed promising.
> 
> “Thanks for reaching out, we are still working on cracking the ECU in the new Tiguan. We've had an extremely large number of request for this software so it is definitely a priority to us. Unfortunately I do not have a timeline as that will depend on how much longer development will require. Once we finish up development on the ECU side this will certainly be one of the first vehicles we will look to offer software for on this new MG1 ECU platform.”
> 
> It’s great to hear they have received a lot of requests. Hoping it helps push along development.


Unfortunately is more like it, as this is the same response they and other tuners have given over the past year and change. No one has cracked into the matrix. No one has tunes for any of these cars. And despite what they told you, the Tiguan will NOT be one of the first to receive a tune. The high performance Audi’s will be the first ones to get the treatment. Not trying to burst your bubble but...no sense in getting everyone’s hopes up until there’s an actual verified news brief directly from someone at a company stating they got in.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

I am constantly harassing APR's Facebook page for a tune.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

zackdawley said:


> I am constantly harassing APR's Facebook page for a tune.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Harass on my behalf too, not a face page subscriber


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

You can poke at them on Twitter 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

zackdawley said:


> I am constantly harassing APR's Facebook page for a tune.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Doesn't change anything though. We know it's important. All you're doing is making me respond to the same question thousands of times.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Doesn't change anything though. We know it's important. All you're doing is making me respond to the same question thousands of times.


Unless you are also the engineer responsible for cracking our ECU, meaning you responding to me makes less time working on the solution, watch the salt. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

zackdawley said:


> Unless you are also the engineer responsible for cracking our ECU, meaning you responding to me makes less time working on the solution, watch the salt.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Well said.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

zackdawley said:


> Unless you are also the engineer responsible for cracking our ECU, meaning you responding to me makes less time working on the solution, watch the salt.


Maybe he can photoshop a tune


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> Doesn't change anything though. We know it's important. All you're doing is making me respond to the same question *thousands of times*.


Bit of an over-exaggeration maybe? Anyways, all done in fun Arin... just hoping when I click the goapr.com every day or so it will be posted there...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

On any given heavy month I can answer over 10,000 questions across all mediums. So, not impossible.


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> On any given heavy month I can answer over 10,000 questions across all mediums. So, not impossible.


If a 30-day month, that amounts to answering a question every 2 minutes, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.


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## Rmzhrb (Mar 10, 2018)

phlegm said:


> if a 30-day month, that amounts to answering a question every 2 minutes, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.


rofl 🤣


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

phlegm said:


> If a 30-day month, that amounts to answering a question every 2 minutes, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.


Perfect. Then I'd say that's pretty accurate. I send multiple messages across instant messengers / dm / pms with a dramatically less refresh rate than 2 minutes.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

Why are people suddenly mocking Arin? Seems that people losing the argument like to start attacking the messenger, resorting to childish antics.

Arin has told you that he responds to all social media posts and he's not the engineer working on the problem. It's clear APR wants to do a tune for this ECU and that everyone constantly posting about status updates isn't going to help any more than begging the ATM to randomly spit out cash is going to make you rich.
APR will tell us when they have a tune ready, we just saw that with the ROW models. 

Patience. It will come.


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

gerardrjj said:


> Why are people suddenly mocking Arin? Seems that people losing the argument like to start attacking the messenger, resorting to childish antics.
> 
> Arin has told you that he responds to all social media posts and he's not the engineer working on the problem. It's clear APR wants to do a tune for this ECU and that everyone constantly posting about status updates isn't going to help any more than begging the ATM to randomly spit out cash is going to make you rich.
> APR will tell us when they have a tune ready, we just saw that with the ROW models.
> ...


It was merely that his earlier reply came across as though prospective customer interest, and the replies involved, were a burden to him. 

Someone suggested a workload exaggeration, he volunteered the 10K number, and I did the math without further comment.

IMO this is light teasing, and far from an attack. That said, I still disliked that earlier post, and it could have been:
_
"Hey folks, we really appreciate the interest, but no need to send those inquiries.  Believe us, we're working hard to get a tune in place. I'll post here as soon as we have something to share."_


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

gerardrjj said:


> Why are people suddenly mocking Arin? Seems that people losing the argument like to start attacking the messenger, resorting to childish antics.
> 
> Arin has told you that he responds to all social media posts and he's not the engineer working on the problem. It's clear APR wants to do a tune for this ECU and that everyone constantly posting about status updates isn't going to help any more than begging the ATM to randomly spit out cash is going to make you rich.
> APR will tell us when they have a tune ready, we just saw that with the ROW models.
> ...


Whatever dad. 

That being said, it’s no secret that being an employee at APR elevates the nostrils on yours truly. By now he should know better than to display the slightest of attitude on the internet. He also doesn’t need you to defend him.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

phlegm said:


> It was merely that his earlier reply came across as though prospective customer interest, and the replies involved, were a burden to him.


This was the post:

"I am constantly harassing APR's Facebook page for a tune."

I said it doesn't help. We know it's important.

Don't try to spin it into something it's not.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Time to move on... 

Arin, as I said above, it's (at least in my part because I don't do the "face page thing" LOL) was just all in fun, was no need to escalate things further with additional comments around how many responses you are doing a day, minute, hour... Clearly you are a very busy person. 

:beer: or zima

Wow, just noticed this thread has 100K views!!!


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## KDubGTI (May 24, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> This was the post:
> 
> "I am constantly harassing APR's Facebook page for a tune."
> 
> ...


OK, I have to chime in here. Clearly by "harass"...it was meant to say, let APR know the MK2 Tiguan community is very excited for news and info on the tune progress and availability. 

It would be nice if APR had a news/status page dedicated to the platform so we would not have to pester you as much. Problem is large companies keep to themselves until they have something solid to announce and leave the customer in the dark.

It could be a month or another 2 years, who knows. 

Arin - It sounded to me like you lost your patience and if you represent APR, you are being very unprofessional.


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> This was the post:
> 
> "I am constantly harassing APR's Facebook page for a tune."
> 
> ...



No spin - I didn't like the reply, nor did others here. Your full post was:



[email protected] said:


> Doesn't change anything though. We know it's important. All you're doing is making me respond to the same question thousands of times.



I'll stop at this point, but APR as a company probably doesn't want you arguing with people online.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm all good. We know it's important. Simple as that.


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## Junkie1.8TQ (Jan 29, 2007)

Some of these post are so annoying. Why are you guys giving the APR rep a hard time? I’m sure if they have a solid product for us they’ll have an announcement. 

There’s no point of asking the same thing 100 other people have already asked and getting the same answer. You’re just wasting your time and it’s making you more impatient. It’s like taking a long ass road trip and the kid in the car ask “are we there yet?”.


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## noreastdub (Aug 6, 2018)

Junkie1.8TQ said:


> It’s like taking a long ass road trip and the kid in the car ask “are we there yet?”.


Well said brother... And those of you who have not experienced this child asking are we there yet... You should try it out sometime, lots of fun hearing that question every 2 minutes. Even the most seasoned professional parents would eventually lose their professionalism for a second at least. APR wants our money, trust me they do, they are excited by the interest and our confidence in their product. We may not be priority-one, and their business model prob doesn't favor giving the general public "we are getting a tad bit closer" comments for some valid reasons.

It just the same as when I see this post has been bumped yet again, only to find its a bunch of useless comments, bickering really... no closer the the product I am hoping to see is available by clicking to open the thread. and yet here I am doing the same thing that annoys me when others do it... I am only bumping it myself right now because I saw the APR rep did lose his patience (if only for a second) and felt I needed to say this: Who here is perfect? If you answer "I am", you are wrong and probably should have your head checked. OK, thanks.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Junkie1.8TQ said:


> Some of these post are so annoying. Why are you guys giving the APR rep a hard time? I’m sure if they have a solid product for us they’ll have an announcement.
> 
> There’s no point of asking the same thing 100 other people have already asked and getting the same answer. You’re just wasting your time and it’s making you more impatient. It’s like taking a long ass road trip and the kid in the car ask “are we there yet?”.





noreastdub said:


> Well said brother... And those of you who have not experienced this child asking are we there yet... You should try it out sometime, lots of fun hearing that question every 2 minutes. Even the most seasoned professional parents would eventually lose their professionalism for a second at least. APR wants our money, trust me they do, they are excited by the interest and our confidence in their product. We may not be priority-one, and their business model prob doesn't favor giving the general public "we are getting a tad bit closer" comments for some valid reasons.
> 
> It just the same as when I see this post has been bumped yet again, only to find its a bunch of useless comments, bickering really... no closer the the product I am hoping to see is available by clicking to open the thread. and yet here I am doing the same thing that annoys me when others do it... I am only bumping it myself right now because I saw the APR rep did lose his patience (if only for a second) and felt I needed to say this: Who here is perfect? If you answer "I am", you are wrong and probably should have your head checked. OK, thanks.


What's annoying is continuing to post when clearly the banter (at least mine) was done in fun. Arin already said they good, so why continue after..

:beer:bump:beer: LOL


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Good news. MG1 is tunable. That's all I can report on for now. :thumbup:


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## Row1Rich (Sep 11, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Good news. MG1 is tunable. That's all I can report on for now. :thumbup:


🙏


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

SWEET!!! Perfect timing, got some extra $$$ been saving for this day


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## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

Great 👍🏻


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

christophe15 said:


> SWEET!!! Perfect timing, got some extra $$$ been saving for this day


Just to clarify, that doesn't mean we have our tune ready yet.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> Just to clarify, that doesn't mean we have our tune ready yet.


understood, let me know if it helps to have local disty send you file from our tiggy. plan to probably have there next month sometime for 10k service, etc..


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

christophe15 said:


> understood, let me know if it helps to have local disty send you file from our tiggy. plan to probably have there next month sometime for 10k service, etc..


Actually we would need the car. If we don't buy one soon, we'll need one in house. Anyone that has one, unmodified, please email [email protected] with your full contact information and let her know you have a MG1 Tiguan and would be willing to donate your vehicle for development. When the time comes, if we need it, we'll reach out!

That said, is you're close to a dealer, it wouldn't hurt to put in a request for software. We'll record your ECU and update you when it's ready. If the tiguan has the most request, it will happen faster.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Got it, probably mid next month for file. Hopefully you find a local car for beta.


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## pillpusher84 (Apr 30, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Actually we would need the car. If we don't buy one soon, we'll need one in house. Anyone that has one, unmodified, please email [email protected] with your full contact information and let her know you have a MG1 Tiguan and would be willing to donate your vehicle for development. When the time comes, if we need it, we'll reach out!
> 
> That said, is you're close to a dealer, it wouldn't hurt to put in a request for software. We'll record your ECU and update you when it's ready. If the tiguan has the most request, it will happen faster.
> 
> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Willing to donate my Tiguan that just sits in the garage for this purpose. When do you want it, and for how long? It is a 2018 SEL-P R-Line. It will need to be picked up and re-delivered to me via enclosed carrier to prevent any damage in transit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

pillpusher84 said:


> Willing to donate my Tiguan that just sits in the garage for this purpose. When do you want it, and for how long? It is a 2018 SEL-P R-Line. It will need to be picked up and re-delivered to me via enclosed carrier to prevent any damage in transit.


Awesome. We need to do some official planning / scheduling on our end. Can you email me your contact information? Thank you! [email protected]


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## anonymous911 (Oct 19, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Awesome. We need to do some official planning / scheduling on our end. Can you email me your contact information? Thank you! [email protected]


Hi Arin, I am 10 mins from Smith VW, if you need them to read the ECU on my fiancee's Tiguan. Let me know!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We'll need a car in house, but if you're close to a dealer, it would be absolutely beneficial to visit them and have them scan the car and put in a request for your ECU box code. We'll hit the ones with the most requests first, and we'll email you when it's ready.


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## mattchatr (Jan 26, 2018)

Holding out till spring to pickup our Tiguan Rline, maybe after the mid-gen refresh. If a flash is possible here's hoping they update that for the mid-gen refresh as well or hope that the GTI engine makes its way overseas in the Tiguan like it is in Europe (doubt it).


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## lraymaddox (Jan 7, 2015)

Excited to see what type of performance APR is able to get out of this engine. Currently running Racechip on my 2019 Tig R-Line.


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## bwalzywolfsburg (Feb 10, 2008)

It's happening.









Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## HarryPooter (Mar 21, 2016)

*APR has finally cracked the Tiguan ECU!*

https://www.facebook.com/75900685355/posts/10156069677550356?s=100000207699695&v=e&sfns=mo


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## Rmzhrb (Mar 10, 2018)

I’m glad a tune is officially in the works, but I am now torn! I have an IS38 turbo in my garage that I had bought to put on my MK7 GTI. The GTI is already stage 2, so am I crazy to hold off on the turbo swap until the Tiguan is tunable? Anyone think there’s a chance for an IS38 tune for the Tiguan? I would much rather use the IS38 on the Tiguan.


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## HoTnFunkYGTI (Sep 14, 2018)

*First numbers are in*

There seems to be a huge variations in the numbers different companies are reporting, Some as low as 230, others as heigh as 275PS & 427Nm

This is from the Polo GTI, with different intake, maybe intercooler change too... but with OPF, which seem to steal power...
Hope APR, do a good job finding out if the engine is as durable as the non budack version... 










Original img from: https://www.hgp-turbo.de


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We'll be sure to run it through the paces and make sure deliver a solid tune. We don't plan to rush. We plan to do it right like always.


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## [email protected] (Feb 28, 2007)

Do it once, do it right! The way to go!


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## schagaphonic (Aug 24, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Do it once, do it right! The way to go!


And...if it takes till 2020, that's cool! We are so damn patient :laugh:


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## HoTnFunkYGTI (Sep 14, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> We'll be sure to run it through the paces and make sure deliver a solid tune. We don't plan to rush. We plan to do it right like always.


That makes sense, no point in doing a half assed job twice, if you can do it right the first time. That’s also why there are a lot of people holding out for tune from you guys (APR), including my self. 

Arin, how long after you are done with a tune for the Tiguan, will you have a tune for the other “EA888 Gen3 B” cars (Arteon, Audi A3, Polo GTI, T-Rock)? There seems to be slight variations in the specs of the engines depending on car model. Eks. Not all have the IS20 turbo.

In EU a lot of the 2019+ cars have been fitted with GPF/OPF, will a tune allow you to remove the filter and mount a cat back exhaust? Or will there be a Stage 1+ (GPF/OPF delete) & Stage 2 (GPF/OPF delete + new downpipe) tunes...

Are you looking for development cars in EU? If so where is development taking place in EU...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

HoTnFunkYGTI said:


> Arin, how long after you are done with a tune for the Tiguan, will you have a tune for the other “EA888 Gen3 B” cars (Arteon, Audi A3, Polo GTI, T-Rock)? There seems to be slight variations in the specs of the engines depending on car model. Eks. Not all have the IS20 turbo.
> 
> In EU a lot of the 2019+ cars have been fitted with GPF/OPF, will a tune allow you to remove the filter and mount a cat back exhaust? Or will there be a Stage 1+ (GPF/OPF delete) & Stage 2 (GPF/OPF delete + new downpipe) tunes...
> 
> Are you looking for development cars in EU? If so where is development taking place in EU...


It depends on a lot of things. If the ECU/engine is the same, or the performance aspect of the ECU is the same one tune for one car will work on another. But that typically only works for stuff in the same country. Usually the split between north america and the rest of the world requires us to go to the country and tune the other cars. That will absolutely be the case on the cars with the OPF filter (we just finished tons of those in europe for the non-b cycle engine.). We may offer stage 2 for the OPF cars, at least a tune, but maybe not the hardware. Most of our tuning in europe happens in the UK at APR UK or with our partners APR Germany. APR Germany owns a dealership so we have really good access to vehicles. :thumbup:


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## MrSmith4 (Aug 2, 2019)

New to all of this, how does a tune work and what does it mean for power and fuel efficiency? I assume it’s a software update that changes how the engine fires to give more power without the need for additional parts. What does it mean In terms of wear and tear on the vehicle?


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

MrSmith4 said:


> New to all of this, how does a tune work and what does it mean for power and fuel efficiency? I assume it’s a software update that changes how the engine fires to give more power without the need for additional parts. What does it mean In terms of wear and tear on the vehicle?


A "tune" modifies the engine controllers software in one way or another. Power requires fuel. Therefore just about any tune that gives you more power will also burn more fuel. Also most tunes will also require fuel grades above "regular". Our car's factory "tune" is designed for efficiency with regular gas any aftermarket "tune" will change this in one way or another. As to "wear and tear" it is increased somewhat but usually not to the point where it causes reliability problems. Perhaps the biggest issue with aftermarket tunes is that it can (and probably will) void your engine's warranty and in almost every case it is illegal from an emissions point of view (if you care about such things). Nothing comes for free and more power is no exception.

Have Fun!

Don


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

JSWTDI09 said:


> A "tune" modifies the engine controllers software in one way or another. Power requires fuel. Therefore just about any tune that gives you more power will also burn more fuel...
> Don



To clarify that, the engine will only use more fuel for the power improvement beyond the factory specs, It's not unheard of that fuel consumption can actually be reduced slightly in the factory power range and higher usage is only experienced when you really dip into the throttle.


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

gerardrjj said:


> To clarify that, the engine will only use more fuel for the power improvement beyond the factory specs, It's not unheard of that fuel consumption can actually be reduced slightly in the factory power range and higher usage is only experienced when you really dip into the throttle.


Technically this is true. However, after you spend hundreds of dollars to increase power, it is very difficult to not use that power. Dipping into the throttle is usually why people purchase a tune. As a general rule a tune will hurt your city mileage but it might help your highway mileage. No matter whether you have a tune or not mileage is definitely primarily controlled by your right foot.

Have Fun!

Don


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

MrSmith4 said:


> New to all of this, how does a tune work and what does it mean for power and fuel efficiency?


Power goes way up. 

You'll use more fuel when running wide open throttle. During normal driving it will be the same, if not better in some scenarios. Customers usually report better mileage once they stop driving wide open throttle everywhere. 



> I assume it’s a software update that changes how the engine fires to give more power without the need for additional parts.




It changes a lot of things. To make it super simple: boost goes up, air fuel is recalibrated, ignition advance is altered, cam timing and other moving bits optimized, then hundreds of other maps to make sure it all works correctly. 



> What does it mean In terms of wear and tear on the vehicle?


Here's the honest truth: It does mean more wear and tear. No way around that. Even if you go up 1 HP, it's more, so parts will wear more. Everyone will claim their tune is safe, but relative to the factory tune, it can't be _as_ safe. Does that mean you'll only get 250,000 miles out of a component rather than 300,000? Probably. We do offer a factory term limit matching powertrain warranty for about $400 more, if you don't want to take that risk, but most people just get the tune without it.


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## Rtdave87 (May 14, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Power goes way up.
> 
> You'll use more fuel when running wide open throttle. During normal driving it will be the same, if not better in some scenarios. Customers usually report better mileage once they stop driving wide open throttle everywhere.
> 
> ...


How does the warranty work? Does it match the original warranty?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Rtdave87 said:


> How does the warranty work? Does it match the original warranty?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


It matches the term limit of your factory limited powertrain warranty, whatever that is. The language across all brands and such is slightly different but we're pretty close (sans things like roadside assistance). The warranty is provided by APR (not a third party) and is available through any US APR dealer. You can run any APR mod, other than DP, fueling upgrades, or turbo kits. Here's the booklet to compare against your own: https://www.goaprplus.com/includes/doc/customer_warranty_booklet.pdf


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Power goes way up. You'll use more fuel when running wide open throttle. During normal driving it will be the same, if not better in some scenarios...


But WOT makes the woo hoo happen!


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## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

I just read some good new on APRs Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/75900685355/posts/10156093228175356?s=631088798&substory_index=0&sfns=mo


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## Atomicevil (Jan 29, 2017)

Urano17 said:


> I just read some good new on APRs Facebook Page
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/75900685355/posts/10156093228175356?s=631088798&substory_index=0&sfns=mo


Oh man.... hopefully they can produce decent numbers, apr + warranty will have to be a must.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Good morning Tiguan owners! Guess what one of our employees picked up this weekend! A new Tiguan Development car for APR under our employee assistance/development program. Stay tuned!


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## Junkie1.8TQ (Jan 29, 2007)

Yasssssss!


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## WISVW (Aug 25, 2003)

"Stay tuned" Pun intended?


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Good morning Tiguan owners! Guess what one of our employees picked up this weekend! A new Tiguan Development car for APR under our employee assistance/development program. Stay tuned!



The wheels of progress.


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## mattchatr (Jan 26, 2018)

WISVW said:


> "Stay tuned" Pun intended?


Dang it! And, you beat me to it!!!!


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## HoTnFunkYGTI (Sep 14, 2018)

Very quiet here...ðŸ¤” Any updates on how the development is coming? 
Will you release a stage 2 straight away with stage 1?

It was said that if you had opf, you would have to develop a separate tune for that! what if you go directly to stage 2 (intercooler, intake, catless downpipe no OPF), is that still the case or will you be able to use the stage 2 tune for none opf versions?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

HoTnFunkYGTI said:


> Very quiet here...🤔 Any updates on how the development is coming?


I'll be sure to update everyone when I have substantial news. For now, we're doing our background and homework on the new platform. Will take a while. Couple months I'm sure.


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## Rtdave87 (May 14, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> I'll be sure to update everyone when I have substantial news. For now, we're doing our background and homework on the new platform. Will take a while. Couple months I'm sure.


I saw a guy on Facebook claiming he was running a stage 1 tune on his NA 2018 Tiguan from you guys but I think he's full of sh*t

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Rtdave87 said:


> I saw a guy on Facebook claiming he was running a stage 1 tune on his NA 2018 Tiguan from you guys but I think he's full of sh*t
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Just remember there are 2 different 2018 versions of the Tiguan... It is quite possible they have the older version model/engine and that tune is available. Also, ROW Tiguan there is APR tune for as well.


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## Rtdave87 (May 14, 2019)

christophe15 said:


> Just remember there are 2 different 2018 versions of the Tiguan... It is quite possible they have the older version model/engine and that tune is available. Also, ROW Tiguan there is APR tune for as well.


It looked like a MQB









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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Yes indeed that does look like MQB platform 

Maybe they are running Beta for APR, got an MQB here in North America somehow with a non-bcycle motor, otherwise they paid for something that does not exist for this motor yet .

Looking forward to it like the rest of us :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

They started us Arteon development right around when they started us Tig development. I think August some time. People are now running the tune on the Arteon, so I would not imagine it's impossible they are also running it on the Tig as of the past few weeks when apr finished.


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## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

ice4life said:


> They started us Arteon development right around when they started us Tig development. I think August some time. People are now running the tune on the Arteon, so I would not imagine it's impossible they are also running it on the Tig as of the past few weeks when apr finished.


Don''t forget though, the Arteon is just he R engine, so I imagine the tune is just he same the R uses, which didn't take much work. 

This B-Cycle in the Tig is a whole new E888 so it may take more time.


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## RedATPGti (Nov 25, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I'll be sure to update everyone when I have substantial news. For now, we're doing our background and homework on the new platform. Will take a while. Couple months I'm sure.


Hey Arin,

Any updates on the new US Spec Tiguan Tune?

Even my wife thinks it is underpowered... LOL


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

When there are updates, I'll be the first to post!


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## [email protected] (Feb 28, 2007)

So you're releasing softwares for the 2.9/3.0 and nothing for the 2.0. I don't understand...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> So you're releasing softwares for the 2.9/3.0 and nothing for the 2.0. I don't understand...


2.9T will be first. 3.0T and 2.0T use a VERY different ECU style than most likely more than 95% of the ECUs we've worked with in the past 20 years, which delayed several aspects of the tuning process. We're shooting for Q1 2020 on both of those.


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## bestvw (May 2, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> 2.9T will be first. 3.0T and 2.0T use a VERY different ECU style than most likely more than 95% of the ECUs we've worked with in the past 20 years, which delayed several aspects of the tuning process. We're shooting for Q1 2020 on both of those.


Bump and waiting 👍👍👍


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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> 2.9T will be first. 3.0T and 2.0T use a VERY different ECU style than most likely more than 95% of the ECUs we've worked with in the past 20 years, which delayed several aspects of the tuning process. We're shooting for Q1 2020 on both of those.


Would you be able to confirm if 132kw 2.0 found in the ROW Tiguan allspace is indeed a B cycle. When I just got mine last year initially I think it came with the wrong ecu map , had lots of power and a throaty grunt , mileage was HORRIBLE though. Went back to the dealer and got it back feeling a little more sedated but with better mileage . Which made be wonder which version of the 2.0 we actually got in jamaica. 

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

If you have a MAF sensor on the intake right after the air box, you have the Bcycle engine.


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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> If you have a MAF sensor on the intake right after the air box, you have the Bcycle engine.


Gonna check 

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

Jettayard said:


> Gonna check
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


Well I guess I'm gonna have to continue waiting like everyone else 

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> If you have a MAF sensor on the intake right after the air box, you have the Bcycle engine.


Yup its there , so I guess i'm waiting on you guys then, hope the tune will provide more balanced fuel economy @[email protected] 

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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

Btw I've always used 90 octane for this car but since the b cycle engine in theory should be able to run off regular gas, would you suggest I start using the e-87 that we have in jamaica to start saving money ? @[email protected] 

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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

Jettayard said:


> Btw I've always used 90 octane for this car but since the b cycle engine in theory should be able to run off regular gas, would you suggest I start using the e-87 that we have in jamaica to start saving money ? @[email protected]
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


I've been using 87 with no problems in America. Not sure how your fuel quality differs if at any at all.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Jettayard said:


> Btw I've always used 90 octane for this car but since the b cycle engine in theory should be able to run off regular gas, would you suggest I start using the e-87 that we have in jamaica to start saving money ? @[email protected]
> 
> Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


By E87 are you saying 87% ethanol?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Jettayard (Sep 10, 2011)

zackdawley said:


> By E87 are you saying 87% ethanol?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Well it's actually e-10 87 , 10 being 10% ethanol 

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Just wanted to make sure, it should work fine, but I'll only put zero ethanol in mine.

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Assuming Jamaica rates fuel as (Ron+Mon)/2, 87 (R+M)/2 should be fine on the stock tune.


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## SmartAssBill (Jun 27, 2016)

is this the line to patiently wait???


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

SmartAssBill said:


> is this the line to patiently wait???


At this rate, I think it's the line to die waiting lol. 

I'd rather a nice healthy tune out there though than some quickly cobbled together junk. So the wait is fine with me.


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## noreserve (Jan 8, 2016)

I'm in line and have been patiently waiting. Hoping to see something Q1 that can bump up HP/TQ by at least 70 - this slug needs it. This thing sounds like a god-awful CVT to boot. I miss my 2016 GTI.


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

They keep pushing it back. I wonder if they’re able to get good numbers with this powertrain, or if they keep pushing it back because they keep trying. Who knows. It’s a B-Cycle after all. 


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

noreserve said:


> I'm in line and have been patiently waiting. Hoping to see something Q1 that can bump up HP/TQ by at least 70 - this slug needs it. This thing sounds like a god-awful CVT to boot. I miss my 2016 GTI.


How does a CVT sound?

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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

Funny how VW sold over 100k Tiguan last year... But Audi managed to move 1/10th of S4s..

Yet gotta tune the Audi first. Everyone with a Mk2 Tiguan in the USA is crying for more power....



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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

DasTeknoViking said:


> Funny how VW sold over 100k Tiguan last year... But Audi managed to move 1/10th of S4s..
> 
> Yet gotta tune the Audi first. Everyone with a Mk2 Tiguan in the USA is crying for more power....
> 
> ...


Target audience.

The s4 is going to be their money maker while the Tiguan is soccer mom vehicle of choice. 

Only the dedicated will tune their Tiguans whereas almost everyone out there will tune the s4.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

zimmie2652 said:


> Target audience.
> 
> The s4 is going to be their money maker while the Tiguan is soccer mom vehicle of choice.
> 
> Only the dedicated will tune their Tiguans whereas almost everyone out there will tune the s4.


Wrong. They will make more money per tune on the S4, but the higher market share is always the less expensive cars. They (collectively Unitronic, APR, etc) have sold exponentially more GTI and GLI tunes than they have all of the Audi S model cars combined. 

It’s more a game of who can make the most power first on the performance cars, which then helps them sell themselves on the less expensive cars/tunes. Marketing strategy.


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## Paddie.e.kelly (Jan 4, 2020)

zimmie2652 said:


> DasTeknoViking said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how VW sold over 100k Tiguan last year... But Audi managed to move 1/10th of S4s..
> ...



This.
Don't understand why people are getting so upset about the Tiguan not being a priority for a tune. If you wanted more power then you should have bought a car with more power from the get-go. Volkswagen has never been deceptive about this cars purpose. Tiguan is decidedly tailored to families, not racers.

Besides, aren't there power modules you can easily slap on to get a simple and imexpensive power boost?


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## Atomicevil (Jan 29, 2017)

Paddie.e.kelly said:


> This.
> Don't understand why people are getting so upset about the Tiguan not being a priority for a tune. If you wanted more power then you should have bought a car with more power from the get-go. Volkswagen has never been deceptive about this cars purpose. Tiguan is decidedly tailored to families, not racers.
> 
> Besides, aren't there power modules you can easily slap on to get a simple and imexpensive power boost?



Not that anyone who purchased a Tiguan has to justify where they would like to spend their hard earned money on. If you are a MQB Tiguan owner who is happy with the speeds that the vehicle provides then great! I can only speak for myself, the issues that would easily be fixed with a tune we’re addressed by Vw when they released the 2019 Tiguan which offered a better power delivery than the previous model years. It’s not about being a racer, it’s about purchasing a vehicle that has the power to safely merge onto a highway with out the driver having to floor it. Most MQB Tiguan owners are coming from GTI, Cc or another line of VW Vehicles that we’re supported by the tuning community. And it’s frustrating that it has taken this long for a tune and other vehicles are getting priority from the tuning companies. 


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

Atomicevil said:


> Not that anyone who purchased a Tiguan has to justify where they would like to spend their hard earned money on. If you are a MQB Tiguan owner who is happy with the speeds that the vehicle provides then great! I can only speak for myself, the issues that would easily be fixed with a tune we’re addressed by Vw when they released the 2019 Tiguan which offered a better power delivery than the previous model years. It’s not about being a racer, it’s about purchasing a vehicle that has the power to safely merge onto a highway with out the driver having to floor it. Most MQB Tiguan owners are coming from GTI, Cc or another line of VW Vehicles that we’re supported by the tuning community. And it’s frustrating that it has taken this long for a tune and other vehicles are getting priority from the tuning companies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You guys do know that Volkswagen/Audi are increasing the complexity of their ECUs and therefore making it harder for ARP (and other tuners) to crack, right? The B9 3.0t engines have been out for how long and still haven't received official APR tunes so I'm not sure where everyone is getting the information that APR is spending all of their free time solely with the 3.0t


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

There's a lot of anxiety surrounding this platform. We're not ignoring it. It's very important to us. 

Here's a little update:

The ECU was very difficult to crack. Before it was cracked, it wasn't tuneable. The main ECU is based on technology that's in the new 2.0T B cycle, 3.0T, and 4.0T. It's in others to, but those are the ones you see us talking about the most. It's "Cracked" but that just means tuning is possible, or rather, should take place right away. More steps must happen. Note, this ECU differs from other MG1 ECUs. The S4, which was released first from Audi, is the most similar to it, but it's still different. The 2.9T, which we released earlier last month, was so similar in many ways to ecus we've tuned for a decade, we were able to finish and release it first. The 3.0T (which has been in development the longest) will release next. The Tiguan will follow. We still have to find and define all maps, measurement maps, and find ways to read and write to the CU in the field, among doing other things, for every ECU box code. Part of that is a slow process right now because the type of processor used in the ECU is different than other ECUs, so the language doesn't jive with our normal workflow. It requires us to make a bunch of stuff behind the scenes for that to happen, and then it becomes a very fast process. We have guys on that all day, every day. Now, all that aside, you may say others are doing it. Others probably are. Here's what they do: They buy and subscribe to a company that makes and sells a tuning tool. This lets them do cars in one location, one at a time, and isn't feasible for our business model. Next, they buy a prebaked file off the internet. This is some guy in europe that figured out a few load maps, made a "base tune" with little effort, and then resells it to others that get to call it "custom" after they adjust 1 more map. It's mainly an incomplete tune. We wouldn't trust that as we haven't tuned it ourselfs. Basically, a garage in europe can beat us to the punch because their level of development work is down to buying a bunch of stuff from others, putting their name on it, and saying it's theirs. But, we do everything from the ground up. We make the tuning tools. We define the maps. We tune the vehicle. We distribute the tune globally. Doing it the way we do it is slow up front, but it's the only way to do it and have complete control over every aspect of the tune worthy of our name. 

So, point being, it's being worked on. There are a lot of steps. It's very important to us, to me, to the whole company. The tiguan is awesome and we are excited to support it. We're aiming for Q1 2020. I hope we hit that target! If not, Q2. 

Thanks!

-Arin


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> There's a lot of anxiety surrounding this platform. We're not ignoring it. It's very important to us.
> 
> Here's a little update:
> 
> ...


thanks for the update! as well as some background to the process.

ive always known the tedious amount of work you put into these tunes and i for one am happy that you are working on it. i just hope others can be as patient and understanding as you are when we have so many complain. 

keep up the great work and ill keep buying your tunes!!! (APR tunes MK7 GTI, Arteon)


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> thanks for the update! as well as some background to the process.
> 
> ive always known the tedious amount of work you put into these tunes and i for one am happy that you are working on it. i just hope others can be as patient and understanding as you are when we have so many complain.
> 
> keep up the great work and ill keep buying your tunes!!! (APR tunes MK7 GTI, Arteon)


I think just the update is what the people really are needing. Silence is a killer most of the times haha. Just hope the ones that complained do not complain about the price when it comes out . It seems a lot of man hours put in the R&D so I fully expect that to reflect in the price as well.


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## dazmann (Jun 14, 2019)

Ditto to what’s been said about taking your time to do it right. Although I am eagerly awaiting an announcement, as I am curious about numbers, I am pleased to know you guys are taking the time to give us a reliable product.


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## jud72son (Jan 27, 2019)

*What increase in HP and torque is expected for the 2019 Tiguan Stage 1 tune*

Any guess as to the 0-60 times that accompany the Stage 1 tune? Never had an APR previously - but will be getting one for my 2019 Tiguan. Thanks for any input / educated guesses....


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

jud72son said:


> Any guess as to the 0-60 times that accompany the Stage 1 tune? Never had an APR previously - but will be getting one for my 2019 Tiguan. Thanks for any input / educated guesses....


at least a 3 second 0-60 time. 4Motion will make sure of that...
i only know this because i have zero information to base this on....because i have read this thread...

:what::screwy::what::screwy:


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> There's a lot of anxiety surrounding this platform. We're not ignoring it. It's very important to us.
> 
> Here's a little update:
> 
> ...


Sorry if this has been asked, I will admit I did not read each and every page of this thread. 

When released, will this be compatible with APR mobile or will bench flashing be the means to get the tune?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

If it launched today, it would be single program, no apr mobile, and the ECU would need to be sent in to be unlocked. Anything can change in the future.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> If it launched today, it would be single program, no apr mobile, and the ECU would need to be sent in to be unlocked. Anything can change in the future.


Oof, not what I was hoping to hear. Ability to flash at home is a make or break for me.


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## boatvolt (Jan 17, 2010)

*APR+ flash?*

Will the flash be offered in a '+' version?


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## Junkie1.8TQ (Jan 29, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> If it launched today, it would be single program, no apr mobile, and the ECU would need to be sent in to be unlocked. Anything can change in the future.


Good news there’s a tune... bad news, we have to send our ecu in. Can’t wait to see if anything changes. Any of your other parts fit this the MQB Tig?


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## gti_addict (Nov 22, 2000)

Did I completely miss where he said there was a tune???


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## JSWTDI09 (Feb 22, 2009)

Junkie1.8TQ said:


> Good news there’s a tune... bad news, we have to send our ecu in. Can’t wait to see if anything changes. Any of your other parts fit this the MQB Tig?


No, not yet. There is currently no tune available for the 2018+ NA B-cycle Tiguan engine. You missed the word "if". The APR guy said "*IF* it launched today, it would be single program, no apr mobile, and the ECU would need to be sent in to be unlocked. Anything can change in the future." The good news is that they have cracked the ECU security functions, but they are still working on the tune.



gti_addict said:


> Did I completely miss where he said there was a tune???


No, Junkie1.8TQ has an slight issue with reading comprehension. I'm sure that this thread will light up when they actually announce that a tune is available.

Have Fun!

Don


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

boatvolt said:


> Will the flash be offered in a '+' version?


There's a good chance it will be!


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## XDeCX (Oct 18, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> There's a good chance it will be!


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## Junkie1.8TQ (Jan 29, 2007)

JSWTDI09 said:


> No, not yet. There is currently no tune available for the 2018+ NA B-cycle Tiguan engine. You missed the word "if". The APR guy said "*IF* it launched today, it would be single program, no apr mobile, and the ECU would need to be sent in to be unlocked. Anything can change in the future." The good news is that they have cracked the ECU security functions, but they are still working on the tune.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea I missed the word IF... But Thanks for putting me down...  

Damn trolls.


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

Junkie1.8TQ said:


> Yea I missed the word IF... But Thanks for putting me down...
> 
> Damn trolls.


Don't mind Don, he does it to everyone. He's a grumpy old guss.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

JSWTDI09 said:


> No, not yet. There is currently no tune available for the 2018+ NA B-cycle Tiguan engine. You missed the word "if". The APR guy said "*IF* it launched today, it would be single program, no apr mobile, and the ECU would need to be sent in to be unlocked. Anything can change in the future." The good news is that they have cracked the ECU security functions, but they are still working on the tune.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apparently, your comprehension sucks too Don because Junkie's response was very straightforward and easy to understand. Not our fault you didn't get it.


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## souplock (Mar 10, 2020)

follow


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)




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## supersushi (Dec 17, 2019)

Savvv said:


>


Is this for the B cycle? Any ETA on it?


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## gti_addict (Nov 22, 2000)

Yes... check the Uni thread

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## SmartAssBill (Jun 27, 2016)

Wish that pic said APR on it....

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

SmartAssBill said:


> Wish that pic said APR on it....
> 
> Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


Well, good news. We wrapped up our S4 development, meaning more resources have opened and shifted to the Tiguan. We'll come through like we said! We only have 3 chassis dynos at the opelika facility, so it gets crowded with so many awesome cars coming out.


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## locoandroid69 (Dec 21, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Well, good news. We wrapped up our S4 development, meaning more resources have opened and shifted to the Tiguan. We'll come through like we said! We only have 3 chassis dynos at the opelika facility, so it gets crowded with so many awesome cars coming out.


music to my ears...


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## Nrth7 (Aug 24, 2015)

After waiting 2 years, I've given up, swapping our sel-p for a '15 TDI wagon sel and a '13 S4, only to check the forum one last time and find out the tunes really are on the way. Oh well.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Nrth7 said:


> After waiting 2 years, I've given up, swapping our sel-p for a '15 TDI wagon sel and a '13 S4, only to check the forum one last time and find out the tunes really are on the way. Oh well.


Well they aren't here, so I wouldn't be upset yet...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)




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## Gtrain (Jul 1, 2009)

TablaRasa said:


>


Nice. Good news for sure. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

TablaRasa said:


>


APR - "Quick. Uni has a picture of a Tig on a dyno. We need one too."


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

M Diddy said:


> APR - "Quick. Uni has a picture of a Tig on a dyno. We need one too."


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

M Diddy said:


> APR - "Quick. Uni has a picture of a Tig on a dyno. We need one too."


We don't base our tuning on anyone else' schedule. If you haven't been following us in the past 6 months, we've released several new platform including MG1 based 2.9T, 3.0T, and 2.9T MHEV, the world first port flashes for the SDI 21 based Porsche 3.0T, 3.8T S, 2.0T, 2.5T S, and 2.5T GTS, new VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda/Porsche diesel tunes daily, new transmission controllers including the MQB DQ500 and DQ381, Gen 2 Simos 16.x Q7, Our first Bentley ECU upgrade, Various 2019 and 2020 vehicles, The 1.4 (US), and a bunch of new box code support (over 10,000 of them), across the world. 

Did you say someone else posted a photo of a car on a dyno?


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> We don't base our tuning on anyone else' schedule. If you haven't been following us in the past 6 months, we've released several new platform including MG1 based 2.9T, 3.0T, and 2.9T MHEV, the world first port flashes for the SDI 21 based Porsche 3.0T, 3.8T S, 2.0T, 2.5T S, and 2.5T GTS, new VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda/Porsche diesel tunes daily, new transmission controllers including the MQB DQ500 and DQ381, Gen 2 Simos 16.x Q7, Our first Bentley ECU upgrade, Various 2019 and 2020 vehicles, The 1.4 (US), and a bunch of new box code support (over 10,000 of them), across the world.
> 
> Did you say someone else posted a photo of a car on a dyno?


The white Tig posted on 3/21... It's okay, we know you guys tune a lot of stuff, it was just a joke.

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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

zackdawley said:


> The white Tig posted on 3/21... It's okay, we know you guys tune a lot of stuff, it was just a joke.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


You should know that part of how they stay in business is paying a photographer to defend their online reputation, even if it’s just playful fun. As if a million people read your comment and took it as they’re always in 2nd place


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Simply put, there's no joking here. I've been freaking excited to share it's finally on the dyno after all the time of waiting. It's a moment where we all must gather round (at a distance), and have virtual hug in hopes the Tiguan may finally get some good power. :laugh:


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Simply put, there's no joking here. I've been freaking excited to share it's finally on the dyno after all the time of waiting. It's a moment where we all must gather round (at a distance), and have virtual hug in hopes the Tiguan may finally get some good power. :laugh:


If Reflect Tuning's tune for the Gen3B is any sign of what can be done, APR's Stage 1 tuning should be pretty descent. Reflect managed to get 51hp and 86TQ on an 17 Audi A4 Ultra FWD according to the dyno graphs they sent me. I'm just not willing to take out my ECU and ship and wait for it to come back.

That would be a great start before bolt-ons/Stage 2 if possible. That might give me 1 reason to even want to keep this car.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

srivkin78 said:


> 51hp and 86TQ


Trust me if that’s what you’re basing your reason to keep the car off of, you’ll like the numbers even more when they come out. Already saw a graph for a 93oct file and will have people selling their Burger/Neuspeed boxes in no time.


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## M Diddy (Sep 25, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> M Diddy said:
> 
> 
> > APR - "Quick. Uni has a picture of a Tig on a dyno. We need one too." <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
> ...


Arin, was just a joke. I've had a few APR tunes on past Dubs. Nothing but good things to say.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

Having available Tunes for the Tiguan is now even more significant as I recently read that definitely the Tiguan R won't be making an appearance in the US


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Savvv said:


> Trust me if that’s what you’re basing your reason to keep the car off of, you’ll like the numbers even more when they come out. Already saw a graph for a 93oct file and will have people selling their Burger/Neuspeed boxes in no time.


Do you have said graph? I'd love to see it too.


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## schagaphonic (Aug 24, 2008)

Arin,

Can you tell us with the new flash if it might have the capability of custom switches or controls via Bluetooth?
Fuel octanes, switching back and forth to stock are just a couple things that come to mind. Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

On day one of the flash being available to the public, I do not think that will happen. But, if the flash is delayed for emissions testing, for example, then it may.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

zimmie2652 said:


> Do you have said graph? I'd love to see it too.


I do, but it’s not my place to be sharing it. You don’t get insider info by being the leak


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

Savvv said:


> I do, but it’s not my place to be sharing it. You don’t get insider info by being the leak













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## Rtdave87 (May 14, 2019)

Savvv said:


> I do, but it’s not my place to be sharing it. You don’t get insider info by being the leak


Then why bring it up if you're not going to share it?

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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> On day one of the flash being available to the public, I do not think that will happen. But, if the flash is delayed for emissions testing, for example, then it may.


“If the flash is delayed for emissions testing”... lol get ready for 2021 release. 


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

But there's no emissions testing due to the Rona... Give us the dirty tunes!

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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

Rtdave87 said:


> Then why bring it up if you're not going to share it?
> 
> Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


Read post #454


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## billy2.0 (Sep 20, 2002)

zackdawley said:


> But there's no emissions testing due to the Rona... Give us the dirty tunes!


:laugh::laugh:

This should cure the Rona.... right? Let's get some Federal funding behind this thing stat. :snowcool:


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Savvv said:


> zimmie2652 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have said graph? I'd love to see it too.
> ...


I get it, no sweat. Can’t blame a brotha for trying. Blink twice if they are significantly higher than these guys. 😉 https://www.mtm-usa.com/collections/tiguan-ad-2018/products/performance-upgrade-4d-tiguan


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> I get it, no sweat. Can’t blame a brotha for trying. Blink twice if they are significantly higher than these guys. 😉 https://www.mtm-usa.com/collections/tiguan-ad-2018/products/performance-upgrade-4d-tiguan


It's hard to believe that a ~50tq increase would only net a .2s 0-60 increase...


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

AkiraSieghart said:


> It's hard to believe that a ~50tq increase would only net a .2s 0-60 increase...


Who said anything about a .2s increase? You're the second person I've seen mention that but all I see on the website is a blank field for that area. If that's true, I would surmise it's probably mostly due to weight of the vehicle.


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## srivkin78 (Aug 31, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> Who said anything about a .2s increase? You're the second person I've seen mention that but all I see on the website is a blank field for that area. If that's true, I would surmise it's probably mostly due to weight of the vehicle.


thats for the piggy back tune MTM has for the Gen3B.

https://www.mtm-usa.com/collections/tiguan-ad-2018/products/m-cantronic-gen-ii-vw-tiguan-2-0-tsi-215-hp


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## gti_addict (Nov 22, 2000)

zimmie2652 said:


> Who said anything about a *.2s * increase? You're the second person I've seen mention that but all I see on the website is a blank field for that area. If that's true, I would surmise it's probably mostly due to weight of the vehicle.


I keep seeing the a number people quoting* .2 *sec increase on multiple threads and can only assume they are mixing up MTM's tune and their *M-Cantronic * which has an increase of *.2 *0-60.
MTM is claiming *7.5* 0-60 for their *M-Cantronic * which is $1299, not their tune which is $799 and has no posted 0-60 times and their stock times are already faster than independent testing for the MQB Gen3B.

For reference https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/volkswagen-0-60-mph-times/ has compiled independent tests and shows Tiguan MQB times ranging from *8.2* to *9.7* 0-60 depending on trim and drive train. So if I can get into the 7's that is a big jump for a 4motion.

MTM's tune is claiming an increase of +61hp and +59Ft/lbs, most people will agree that is a decent upgrade for a tune. You also have to understand that a tune is a starting point on a turbo car and will increase with better filter, exhaust etc.

I can only speak for myself that I'm not looking for a 0-60 increase and feel the the 4motion is decent off the line when I punch it. However I'm definitely looking for some more mid and upper range for my 4motion where it's really lacking a lot.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

0-60 times have more to do with launch, tire, surface prep, etc to be a true performance indicator.

Why do tuners make power claims and then present no before and after dyno data (or only "after")? Always seems odd to me.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

gti_addict said:


> I keep seeing the a number people quoting* .2 *sec increase on multiple threads and can only assume they are mixing up MTM's tune and their *M-Cantronic * which has an increase of *.2 *0-60.
> MTM is claiming *7.5* 0-60 for their *M-Cantronic * which is $1299, not their tune which is $799 and has no posted 0-60 times and their stock times are already faster than independent testing for the MQB Gen3B.
> 
> For reference https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/volkswagen-0-60-mph-times/ has compiled independent tests and shows Tiguan MQB times ranging from *8.2* to *9.7* 0-60 depending on trim and drive train. So if I can get into the 7's that is a big jump for a 4motion.
> ...


I'm interested to see what tunes can do for midrange, but like a lot of other cars with small turbos, I doubt there's much power to be made in the upper range.


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## Atomicevil (Jan 29, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> 0-60 times have more to do with launch, tire, surface prep, etc to be a true performance indicator.
> 
> Why do tuners make power claims and then present no before and after dyno data (or only "after")? Always seems odd to me.


So is the software going to be released after the sale is over? Hopefully it’s extended for MQB Tiguan owners.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Atomicevil said:


> So is the software going to be released after the sale is over? Hopefully it’s extended for MQB Tiguan owners.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've seen many sales come and go, there will be several to come, and probably go before we get our tune.

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Atomicevil said:


> So is the software going to be released after the sale is over?


Most likely. Its on the dyno now, and then we'll be doing emissions testing. Not a quick process, but we're almost done.


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## Junkie1.8TQ (Jan 29, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Most likely. Its on the dyno now, and then we'll be doing emissions testing. Not a quick process, but we're almost done.












Any performance upgrades planned besides the tune?


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Junkie1.8TQ said:


> Any performance upgrades planned besides the tune?


You can already do most of them, just no intake or catback... But inlet pipe, intercooler and downpipe all fit. Obviously you'll need a tune for an is38.

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Junkie1.8TQ said:


> Any performance upgrades planned besides the tune?


Most everything we offer for the GTI. Most things fit already.


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## VolksBerry (Dec 2, 2019)

*IS20*



AkiraSieghart said:


> I'm interested to see what tunes can do for midrange, but like a lot of other cars with small turbos, I doubt there's much power to be made in the upper range.



Lets not forget, this Gen3B has the same turbo as the GTI. It will likely have similar gains as the GTI in its tuning capability. Its not a 1.8 with an IS12, but that engine can make a lot of power, even with the IS12. I think we should be expecting 300 hp and 320tq with the stage one plus 93oct tune.

To my understanding, the silly cam we have to activate the Budac cycle is an on or off mechanical action. When the Budac system is activated, a cam activated slider changes the lobe separation and changes the way the systems consumes fuel. When you are in "sport", under load, or accelerating or towing, the system is off. 
When it is disengaged and you basically are running a GTI motor that is severely under tuned. The majority of the exhaust is likely bypassing the turbo through the waste-gate and not building boost. Once the software is released this little turd is going to give us Tiguan R performance. 

Please correct me if Im wrong.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

VolksBerry said:


> Lets not forget, this Gen3B has the same turbo as the GTI. It will likely have similar gains as the GTI in its tuning capability. Its not a 1.8 with an IS12, but that engine can make a lot of power, even with the IS12. I think we should be expecting 300 hp and 320tq with the stage one plus 93oct tune.
> 
> To my understanding, the silly cam we have to activate the Budac cycle is an on or off mechanical action. When the Budac system is activated, a cam activated slider changes the lobe separation and changes the way the systems consumes fuel. When you are in "sport", under load, or accelerating or towing, the system is off.
> When it is disengaged and you basically are running a GTI motor that is severely under tuned. The majority of the exhaust is likely bypassing the turbo through the waste-gate and not building boost. Once the software is released this little turd is going to give us Tiguan R performance.
> ...


I think that’s optimistic. Every other stage 1 out there is netting somewhere between 240-260. This engine isn’t exactly built for power gains with its compression rate. We are not going to be seeing close to or 100+hp gains out of a stage 1 on this engine. 

I think from APR we could possibly expect somewhere round 260-270hp/280-290lb. Also this tranny is only rated for 332lb/ft per Aisin’s website. I mean stage 3 cars with this engine overseas barely crack 300. 

I don’t foresee any tuner almost maxing out the tranny with a stage 1 as that would not allow room for future growth and the accompanying upgrade charges. 


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

I’ll be a monkey’s uncle if anyone gets above 250hp on a 1+ tune. 270 is highly unlikely less you have a stage 2 file with intake/exhaust/intercooler/accessories. 300 you’re smoking crack


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Savvv said:


> I’ll be a monkey’s uncle if anyone gets above 250hp on a 1+ tune. 270 is highly unlikely less you have a stage 2 file with intake/exhaust/intercooler/accessories. 300 you’re smoking crack


You’ve seen some updates along the way lol. You’re cheating! 


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

VolksBerry said:


> Lets not forget, this Gen3B has the same turbo as the GTI. It will likely have similar gains as the GTI in its tuning capability. Its not a 1.8 with an IS12, but that engine can make a lot of power, even with the IS12. I think we should be expecting 300 hp and 320tq with the stage one plus 93oct tune.


The turbo is most similar to the 1.8T IS12. Think of this engine as the 1.8T, just with less potential for making good power. Flow isn't so great, and its super high compression. This is not a GTI engine (not even similar). It's not a GTI turbo (not even simliar). I hate to be the guy to say this. It just isn't. 

Transmission: 0 Concern. Can't even make it a concern with the stock turbo. 

Word of caution - we wary of tuners that don't show stock figures, or quote European versions of this vehicle. Not apples to oranges.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> The turbo is most similar to the 1.8T IS12. Think of this engine as the 1.8T, just with less potential for making good power. Flow isn't so great, and its super high compression. This is not a GTI engine (not even similar). It's not a GTI turbo (not even simliar). I hate to be the guy to say this. It just isn't.
> 
> Transmission: 0 Concern. Can't even make it a concern with the stock turbo.


That's why I've got IS38 money sitting and waiting... 

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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

zackdawley said:


> That's why I've got IS38 money sitting and waiting...
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Hopefully you don't blow the engine or trans with a bigger turbo. I think most of us are just looking for a bit more 'oomph' when merging or passing, but I fear a lot of people are going to be disappointed when the Tiguan doesn't shape up to be cheap performance SUV everyone seems to be looking for. I bought the Tiguan for VW's warranty and it had all the features I wanted for a very good price. However, there were others like the Q5 that were a bit more expensive but could absolutely smoke the Tiguan stock-for-stock and mod-for-mod.


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## Antagon3 (Feb 2, 2010)

So will this work on other bcycles? Particularly the fwd 8v A3


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## Paddie.e.kelly (Jan 4, 2020)

Just curious. For everyone who is looking to spend their chash for a tune and considering other mods to get more power out of their Tiguan: What prevented you from moving up to the Audi Q3? An obviously comparable car with all the same (or improved) features, yet comes with a more powerful 228hp version of the Tiguans 2.0L and an arguably better 4wheel drive? Comparing prices, the entry point for a Q3 looks about $3,000 cheaper than the top trim Tiguan.

Assuming you got even the mid-level trim of the Tiguan, when factoring in the costs for tunes or other mods to get more power - you must be getting close to Q3 territory.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Paddie.e.kelly said:


> Just curious. For everyone who is looking to spend their chash for a tune and considering other mods to get more power out of their Tiguan: What prevented you from moving up to the Audi Q3? An obviously comparable car with all the same (or improved) features, yet comes with a more powerful 228hp version of the Tiguans 2.0L and an arguably better 4wheel drive? Comparing prices, the entry point for a Q3 looks about $3,000 cheaper than the top trim Tiguan.
> 
> Assuming you got even the mid-level trim of the Tiguan, when factoring in the costs for tunes or other mods to get more power - you must be getting close to Q3 territory.


Size. For one. Q3 is much smaller than the Tig. Tig is more comparable to the Q5 size wise. Q3 would be comparable to the old Tig. Also not sure where you’re getting your pricing. Cheapest Q3 round here is $40k marked down to $36k. Most expensive Tig is $38k marked down to $34-$35 generally. Still cheaper although not by much. 

All said and done, I got everything I wanted in my Tig for $5-10k cheaper than a base model q3 and that’s what it came down to. Getting what I would’ve wanted in the q3 I would’ve had to jump to at least the second trim level and it made it less feasible. 


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## gti_addict (Nov 22, 2000)

Paddie.e.kelly said:


> Just curious. For everyone who is looking to spend their chash for a tune and considering other mods to get more power out of their Tiguan: What prevented you from moving up to the Audi Q3? An obviously comparable car with all the same (or improved) features, yet comes with a more powerful 228hp version of the Tiguans 2.0L and an arguably better 4wheel drive? Comparing prices, the entry point for a Q3 looks about $3,000 cheaper than the top trim Tiguan.
> 
> Assuming you got even the mid-level trim of the Tiguan, when factoring in the costs for tunes or other mods to get more power - you must be getting close to Q3 territory.



I looked at the Q3 and it was super small, it felt like I was sitting in my GTI. I also test drove a few Q5s, they were bigger but still lacked leg room in the back seat. I'm only 5'10" and my knees were almost touching the back of the driver's seat. My whole purpose was an AWD vehicle that I could go on trips with everyone comfortable.

It came down to why get such a small car when I already have one. If I can get a few more HP and make it a bit more fun then cool, but then again I'm not one of the many complaining that it's not as fast as a GTI. I have one and don't need the Tiguan to be a sports car. 

That said I don't see where $3k in upgrades for a tune is coming from unless you're talking about trying to hit Stage 2 or 3 which would put out more than a Q3 stock 228hp. Please educate me how the Q3 has an arguably better 4wheel drive when it has the same Quattro system as the A3/S3, which is not the same as the rest of the Audi vehicles or arguably better than 4Motion.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Antagon3 said:


> So will this work on other bcycles? Particularly the fwd 8v A3


We'll finish the tune and then begin investigating what's needed for other vehicles. Three possible scenarios:

- Everything changed is the same on other vehicles (Make files, release software)
- Most everything is the same, but some differences (requires vehicle to verify)
- Nothing is alike or too different (requires new calibration)


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

Paddie.e.kelly said:


> What prevented you from moving up to the Audi Q3? An obviously comparable car with all the same (or improved) features, yet comes with a more powerful 228hp version of the Tiguans 2.0L and an arguably better 4wheel drive?


No difference in the AWD unless having a Quattro nameplate on your decklid gives you the warm and fuzzies. Q3s are not Torsen equipped. Both cars have the latest generation VAG Haldex system introduced in 2016:

https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/audi-unveils-quattro-ultra-all-wheel-drive-system#menu

https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/1...system-to-the-test-on-a-frozen-lake-in-canada

2018 and 2019 VWs have far superior warranties than Audis of the same period. The Q3 couldn't carry as much as our Jetta wagon when the seats were down (48 cu ft vs 69 cu ft)...and the 2 row Tiguan could carry 50% more than the Q3 73 cu ft vs 48 cu ft). Cargo space was far more important than showing my neighbors the four-ring logo.

Passenger comfort. The Tiguan back seat has all-day cross country space, while the Q3 is cramped if the driver is over 5'7". Ever since my kids grew out of car seats, I've had a thing about having my seat back being bumped while I'm in it.

Insurance. I haven't had an accident or ticket in 30 years, and live in a very safe, quiet suburban neighborhood. The Audi would have been $1000+ more per year for the same coverage. And I shopped around when I was told that.




Paddie.e.kelly said:


> Assuming you got even the mid-level trim of the Tiguan, when factoring in the costs for tunes or other mods to get more power - you must be getting close to Q3 territory.


Are you shopping stripper Q3's on the Audi website, or have you actually touched a car while out shopping? I don't mean to be antagonistic, but the Q3s on dealers' lots within 100 miles of me (aside from a no option car or two in white @ $38k) were all $42-46,000, and the dealers aren't taking much off. Tiguans around here are about $3-3500 off MSRP, but last fall $4500 was possible (plus partner and graduate rebates - another $500 off for each). That's about a $6-8,000 on the road difference in sale price. Lots of tuning can be done with that.


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## PZ (May 9, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> The turbo is most similar to the 1.8T IS12. Think of this engine as the 1.8T, just with less potential for making good power. Flow isn't so great, and its super high compression. This is not a GTI engine (not even similar). It's not a GTI turbo (not even simliar). I hate to be the guy to say this. It just isn't.
> 
> Transmission: 0 Concern. Can't even make it a concern with the stock turbo.
> 
> Word of caution - we wary of tuners that don't show stock figures, or quote European versions of this vehicle. Not apples to oranges.


 Wonder if the IS20 from the GTI would make for a cheap/simple upgrade. This tiny turbo boosts below 1500rpm. I can live with boost a little later.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

PZ said:


> Wonder if the IS20 from the GTI would make for a cheap/simple upgrade. This tiny turbo boosts below 1500rpm. I can live with boost a little later.


I don’t see a point in stepping to the GTI is20 when you can go is38 for just a few hundo more truthfully. 


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## VolksBerry (Dec 2, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> The turbo is most similar to the 1.8T IS12. Think of this engine as the 1.8T, just with less potential for making good power. Flow isn't so great, and its super high compression. This is not a GTI engine (not even similar). It's not a GTI turbo (not even simliar). I hate to be the guy to say this. It just isn't.
> 
> Transmission: 0 Concern. Can't even make it a concern with the stock turbo.
> 
> Word of caution - we wary of tuners that don't show stock figures, or quote European versions of this vehicle. Not apples to oranges.



Thank you Arin for your comments. So we have a higher compression ratio compared to the GTI engine? Could this mean power gains would require less boost pressure?

Also, how to the IS20s differ in this case?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

VolksBerry said:


> Thank you Arin for your comments. So we have a higher compression ratio compared to the GTI engine? Could this mean power gains would require less boost pressure? Also, how to the IS20s differ in this case?


The engine has a 11.7 compression ratio, which is high. The GTI and Golf R is 9.6 for comparison. This isn't advantageous for making more power on a boosted engine, unfortunately. 

The IS20 is made by a different manufacturer. It's also bigger with bigger compressor and turbine wheels.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The engine has a 11.7 compression ratio, which is high. The GTI and Golf R is 9.6 for comparison. This isn't advantageous for making more power on a boosted engine, unfortunately.
> 
> The IS20 is made by a different manufacturer. It's also bigger with bigger compressor and turbine wheels.


Sheesh that’s damn near Honda territory. Forever people argue that the higher compression ratio on boosted cars made them easier to drive around town because you’d get onto the power sooner since you’re not waiting on the turbo. I can’t think of anything other than poor ignition timing then that would make this thing such a slug from the factory. We know the Budack cycle is counter-power-productive as well but with that shut off in Sport mode...


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## VWturbonium (Jul 15, 2003)

Savvv said:


> Sheesh that’s damn near Honda territory. Forever people argue that the higher compression ratio on boosted cars made them easier to drive around town because you’d get onto the power sooner since you’re not waiting on the turbo. I can’t think of anything other than poor ignition timing then that would make this thing such a slug from the factory. We know the Budack cycle is counter-power-productive as well but with that shut off in Sport mode...



The stock tune absolutely falls off a cliff after ~4200-4500 RPM, possibly to control knock(imagining a fully loaded Tiguan burning cheap 87 on a hot day and having to manage boost and 11.7:1 compression.) In theory, even a GTI IS20 and a splash of ethanol would probably do wonders for the USDM b-cycle engines.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Note:

ROW and NAR B-Cycle engines are not created equally. Some have suggested big numbers based on some european vehicles. However, upon further inspection, this is because of the turbo. The US based vehicles have a turbo the size of the 1.8T's IS12. Some of the ROW cars making bigger power have an IS20 (mk7 GTI) size turbo. 

-Arin


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

brian81 said:


> No difference in the AWD unless having a Quattro nameplate on your decklid gives you the warm and fuzzies. Q3s are not Torsen equipped. Both cars have the latest generation VAG Haldex system introduced in 2016:
> 
> https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/audi-unveils-quattro-ultra-all-wheel-drive-system#menu
> 
> ...


Reading that first link does it even make sense to adjust the AWD system through coding in the Tiguan’s Haldex system as it sounds like it’ll produce earlier wear and tear. Thus potentially voiding the warranty on that specific unit? Might feel better/nicer to be in a full-time AWD setup, but is that reward worth the risk if one keeps their vehicle. 


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## Passatsquared (Oct 26, 2014)

A haldex unit would burn up if it gets locked on. That's alot of heat and pressure to clamp it shut.

You can squeeze your fist super hard for short durations. 
Try doing that for an hour.


I love my tiguan sel-p. I'll love it even more when it moves like my wife's atlas.
That's all one really needs.

It's so close, I can taste it


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

That’s why I’ve stayed away from that particular mod on the Haldex system. Fear of wearing out sooner and then not covered by warranty. 


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Reihenmotor5 said:


> That’s why I’ve stayed away from that particular mod on the Haldex system. Fear of wearing out sooner and then not covered by warranty.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did it to try it out. The car does feel much better. 

Same thought though, not something I’d leave on full time. Maybe if a terrible blizzard is anticipated or something. 


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

zimmie2652 said:


> I did it to try it out. The car does feel much better.
> 
> Same thought though, not something I’d leave on full time. Maybe if a terrible blizzard is anticipated or something.
> 
> ...


I agree if I’m ever out of the house for other than gas, grocery pickup and coding for an extended period of time in the future I would consider this for when we travel to Western PA around the holidays. Just wonder should one consider max speed to cap yourself at?


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Reihenmotor5 said:


> I agree if I’m ever out of the house for other than gas, grocery pickup and coding for an extended period of time in the future I would consider this for when we travel to Western PA around the holidays. Just wonder should one consider max speed to cap yourself at?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably shouldn't go over about 160 mph without better tires

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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

zackdawley said:


> Probably shouldn't go over about 160 mph without better tires
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk













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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Reihenmotor5 said:


> I agree if I’m ever out of the house for other than gas, grocery pickup and coding for an extended period of time in the future I would consider this for when we travel to Western PA around the holidays. Just wonder should one consider max speed to cap yourself at?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will say though a TON of Golf R guys run this setting full time. I mean it wouldn’t be a changeable setting if VW didn’t thoroughly test it out and feel completely comfortable with it. 

I’m going on 4,500 miles with it activated. 

Seeing you guys talk about it reminded me I still have it activated. 


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## HoTnFunkYGTI (Sep 14, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> Note:
> 
> ROW and NAR B-Cycle engines are not created equally. Some have suggested big numbers based on some european vehicles. However, upon further inspection, this is because of the turbo. The US based vehicles have a turbo the size of the 1.8T's IS12. Some of the ROW cars making bigger power have an IS20 (mk7 GTI) size turbo.
> 
> -Arin


Thanks for clearing that up. 👍👌 So this tune vil not work for all EA888 Gen 3B... 

Sorry for any bad info on my part from EU.😔 
Is it fair to say those numbers show what is possible for the Tiguan with a change of turbo and bolt-ons?
Is 335-355ps/500-525Nm realistic with IS38 on the Tiguan?

When you say on "further inspection" does that mean APR Germany has started work on other EA888 Gen 3B engines? Saw a pre-order news release for a Turbo/Cat back exhaust (Polo GTI). Guessing new downpipe requires some kind of fiddling with the ECU🤞


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

HoTnFunkYGTI said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. 👍👌 So this tune vil not work for all EA888 Gen 3B...
> 
> Sorry for any bad info on my part from EU.😔
> Is it fair to say those numbers show what is possible for the Tiguan with a change of turbo and bolt-ons?
> ...


I don't think the Tiguan's trans would hold up to that much torque. I think somebody linked it earlier in the thread and it's rated to 325 ft-lbs. or like 440Nm.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

HoTnFunkYGTI said:


> Is it fair to say those numbers show what is possible for the Tiguan with a change of turbo and bolt-ons?


With a bigger turbo we can make more power. 



> Is 335-355ps/500-525Nm realistic with IS38 on the Tiguan?


Results will probably have many parallels to this platform:

https://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_18tsi_gen3_mqb.html



> When you say on "further inspection" does that mean APR Germany has started work on other EA888 Gen 3B engines? Saw a pre-order news release for a Turbo/Cat back exhaust (Polo GTI). Guessing new downpipe requires some kind of fiddling with the ECU🤞


In Germany we have worked on the car. Catback is all we have now. Tuning will be a bit delayed because we need our guys on the ground and that's not going to happen easily with the travel ban.


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## adema69 (Jun 4, 2006)

So is the tune out for the us Tiguan? I see on the site they have 2.0t with opf?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

adema69 said:


> So is the tune out for the us Tiguan


Not released yet.


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## PZ (May 9, 2002)

zimmie2652 said:


> I don’t see a point in stepping to the GTI is20 when you can go is38 for just a few hundo more truthfully.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 For me, it's not about peak power, it's about nearly the same torque at lower rpm torque ([email protected] and [email protected] vs [email protected] 2400 and [email protected]). I don't need 350hp, a 91 octane IS20 tune (302hp) would be more practical for me.


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## PZ (May 9, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> The engine has a 11.7 compression ratio, which is high. The GTI and Golf R is 9.6 for comparison. This isn't advantageous for making more power on a boosted engine, unfortunately.
> 
> The IS20 is made by a different manufacturer. It's also bigger with bigger compressor and turbine wheels.


 What is the effective compression ratio (if you know) for the engine in Budak cycle? I could forsee someone reversing the cycle, high compression for faster spooling and lower compression for more power at higher rpm.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

PZ said:


> For me, it's not about peak power, it's about nearly the same torque at lower rpm torque ([email protected] and [email protected] vs [email protected] 2400 and [email protected]). I don't need 350hp, a 91 octane IS20 tune (302hp) would be more practical for me.


I agree, just don’t foresee it being a popular route. 


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

To be honest. I’m just hoping we see 250hp/280tq for the APR plus tune. Any less and I’ll probably pass on it and get JB4. 


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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

D3Audi said:


> To be honest. I’m just hoping we see 250hp/280tq for the APR plus tune. Any less and I’ll probably pass on it and get JB4.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


250 hp/280 tq seem legit.

People need to lower their expectations. High compression engine, b-cycle, small turbo, big car.. this thing is never going to be fast.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m getting the tune as soon as it comes out, I have my Tig since August 2017 (almost 3 years), but it never gonna make the same kind of power as the mk7 GTI/Golf R. 250 hp/280 tq, with this weight, will be adequate and fun, but not fast.

All those big numbers from Europe are for a completly different powertrain. I wouldn’t hold my breath for the possiblity of an IS38 swap either.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Bawlti said:


> 250 hp/280 tq seem legit.
> 
> People need to lower their expectations. High compression engine, b-cycle, small turbo, big car.. this thing is never going to be fast.
> 
> ...


People are already doing is38s here in the states. 
He’s having it tuned by Eurocharge in the next week or so actually. 











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## Bawlti (Apr 22, 2015)

zimmie2652 said:


> People are already doing is38s here in the states.
> He’s having it tuned by Eurocharge in the next week or so actually.
> 
> 
> ...


That's actually really nice! Hybrid IS38s and custom tunes can produce big numbers if the turbo is reliable.

I just joined the fb group to follow the build thanks!


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## VolksBerry (Dec 2, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> I will say though a TON of Golf R guys run this setting full time. I mean it wouldn’t be a changeable setting if VW didn’t thoroughly test it out and feel completely comfortable with it.
> 
> I’m going on 4,500 miles with it activated.
> 
> ...



Have you found the fuel consumption has gotten worse?


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

VolksBerry said:


> Have you found the fuel consumption has gotten worse?


Mainly only when I really push things. 

Otherwise negligible. 


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## MavSBM (Feb 27, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> adema69 said:
> 
> 
> > So is the tune out for the us Tiguan
> ...


Where we at? We’re almost through Q2.


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## CharlesC (Jan 10, 2011)

MavSBM said:


> Where we at? We’re almost through Q2.


The wait is killing me. At this point, car might be gone before the tune comes out.


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## gti_addict (Nov 22, 2000)

I don't know about where you all live, but some of us have been affected by a global pandemic that could have possibly slowed down how fast the release of a tune is. I work in tech and we've all still been working but it has pushed back goals from Q1 to Q2 to Q3. 

Not saying that this is the case for APR but some understanding would be cool instead of complaining that it's not done.


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Update:

APR Plus and APR Stage 1 87, 91, 93, 100, 104, and E60-E85 tunes are done. We're emissions testing now (will be several weeks) and working on making sure we can flash with an ECU sent in without the car here. Max gains on E are around 100 WTQ / 70 WHP, and 80 WTQ / 55 WHP on 93. We'll get a better picture of it once we process all the data (average multiple runs, etc). This is all with stock hardware. 

-Arin


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## locoandroid69 (Dec 21, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Update:
> 
> APR Plus and APR Stage 1 87, 91, 93, 100, 104, and E60-E85 tunes are done. We're emissions testing now (will be several weeks) and working on making sure we can flash with an ECU sent in without the car here. Max gains on E are around 100 WTQ / 70 WHP, and 80 WTQ / 55 WHP on 93. We'll get a better picture of it once we process all the data (average multiple runs, etc). This is all with stock hardware.
> 
> -Arin


Awesome news


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## locoandroid69 (Dec 21, 2019)

Does the authorized dealerships will be able to perform the changes or the only option is shipping the ECU to you guys?


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Can I just buy a programmed ECU off you?

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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Update:
> 
> APR Plus and APR Stage 1 87, 91, 93, 100, 104, and E60-E85 tunes are done. We're emissions testing now (will be several weeks) and working on making sure we can flash with an ECU sent in without the car here. Max gains on E are around 100 WTQ / 70 WHP, and 80 WTQ / 55 WHP on 93. We'll get a better picture of it once we process all the data (average multiple runs, etc). This is all with stock hardware.
> 
> -Arin


I guess anyone could really answer this, who has experience w/ E, not specifically you Arin. 

So for someone who has never messed with E but would like to at some point, what is that blend ratio? 3 gals of E and the rest 93 basically? 


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

No blending with 93. Fill up with a full tank of E85. Make sure the content is E60 to E85.


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## VWturbonium (Jul 15, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Update:
> 
> APR Plus and APR Stage 1 87, 91, 93, 100, 104, and E60-E85 tunes are done. We're emissions testing now (will be several weeks) and working on making sure we can flash with an ECU sent in without the car here. Max gains on E are around 100 WTQ / 70 WHP, and 80 WTQ / 55 WHP on 93. We'll get a better picture of it once we process all the data (average multiple runs, etc). This is all with stock hardware.
> 
> -Arin


Great numbers! Considering the USDM Tigs don't have a real IS20 these are solid, bet it feels like a different vehicle entirely on E85.

Now get a used IS20/IS38 off of a GTI/R owner and you're really in business.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Note: I said WHP earlier. This is an AWHP Tiguan. Still front bias, but I want to make that clarification.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Note: I said WHP earlier. This is an AWHP Tiguan. Still front bias, but I want to make that clarification.


How far behind do you expect to be on an IS38 tune?

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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> Update:
> 
> APR Plus and APR Stage 1 87, 91, 93, 100, 104, and E60-E85 tunes are done. We're emissions testing now (will be several weeks) and working on making sure we can flash with an ECU sent in without the car here. Max gains on E are around 100 WTQ / 70 WHP, and 80 WTQ / 55 WHP on 93. We'll get a better picture of it once we process all the data (average multiple runs, etc). This is all with stock hardware.
> 
> -Arin


Thanks for the information, Arin! Do you happen to know the numbers that your Tiguan put down stock?


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> No blending with 93. Fill up with a full tank of E85. Make sure the content is E60 to E85.


So the gen3b can run full E on purely factory hardware safely? Seems wild.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

zimmie2652 said:


> So the gen3b can run full E on purely factory hardware safely? Seems wild.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, and we always make sure to leave plenty of headroom.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, and we always make sure to leave plenty of headroom.


Not even a sensor or pump upgrade needed? Neato. 


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## gti_addict (Nov 22, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, and we always make sure to leave plenty of headroom.


I knew the Q5s were able to run E85 but didn't know the US Tiguan B-Cycle could. Searching I see vendors are selling kits to allow it, so I'm super confused not lol.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

gti_addict said:


> I knew the Q5s were able to run E85 but didn't know the US Tiguan B-Cycle could. Searching I see vendors are selling kits to allow it, so I'm super confused not lol.


I can’t imagine someone would have a kit out for this engine already without a big player already having a tune, unless the implementation didn’t differ from the regular ol ea888 gen3?








Are you positive they are for the gen3b? 

I haven’t researched anything E related to these because I figured I’d probably just stop at 1 or 2 but now I’m strongly contemplating going full E. 


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## Sensei Splinter (Mar 14, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> zimmie2652 said:
> 
> 
> > So the gen3b can run full E on purely factory hardware safely? Seems wild.
> ...





gti_addict said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, and we always make sure to leave plenty of headroom.
> ...





zimmie2652 said:


> gti_addict said:
> 
> 
> > I knew the Q5s were able to run E85 but didn't know the US Tiguan B-Cycle could. Searching I see vendors are selling kits to allow it, so I'm super confused not lol.
> ...


I have to ask, is the e85 usable only because of the tune that you are setting up? Meaning the switch to e85 would only be possible by tune so the ecu recognises it? I am so confused because all i can find is that it is possible to run e85 but with little explination on what needs to be done to run e85. Some clarification would be nice. Thanks.


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## heycalvind (May 13, 2010)

Although you could _probably_ run ethanol on the stock map, I don't see why you would. Worse gas mileage and maybe minimal gains. I think you need a tune that is optimized for E85 to see the gains. 


Can't wait for APR to release this tune! @[email protected], do you have stock numbers for your test Tig? And will existing authorized dealer be able to tune vs shipping the ECU directly to APR?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

zimmie2652 said:


> Not even a sensor or pump upgrade needed? Neato.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nothing needed. I personally would install a content analyzer.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sensei Splinter said:


> I have to ask, is the e85 usable only because of the tune that you are setting up? Meaning the switch to e85 would only be possible by tune so the ecu recognises it? I am so confused because all i can find is that it is possible to run e85 but with little explination on what needs to be done to run e85. Some clarification would be nice. Thanks.


That's correct. Running up to E85 or 85% ethanol, is only made possible because of the tune.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

heycalvind said:


> Can't wait for APR to release this tune! @[email protected], do you have stock numbers for your test Tig? And will existing authorized dealer be able to tune vs shipping the ECU directly to APR?


If released today, the ECU would be send in only. Dealers cannot flash them yet.

Stock Tiguan did around 160 AWHP and 190 AWFTLBS on our dyno.


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## heycalvind (May 13, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> If released today, the ECU would be send in only. Dealers cannot flash them yet.
> 
> Stock Tiguan did around 160 AWHP and 190 AWFTLBS on our dyno.



You're the man. Appreciate the feedback.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> If released today, the ECU would be send in only. Dealers cannot flash them yet.
> 
> Stock Tiguan did around 160 AWHP and 190 AWFTLBS on our dyno.


What about just buying an already flashed ECU from APR? could we do that?

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

There isn't a way to do that, sorry.


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## Sopey15 (Mar 12, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> If released today, the ECU would be send in only. Dealers cannot flash them yet.
> 
> Stock Tiguan did around 160 AWHP and 190 AWFTLBS on our dyno.


Can APR Plus be purchased and flashed by sending in the ECU or would we have to wait until dealers are able to flash them? Wasn't sure if Plus requires an in person flash since it will carry a warranty.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Boxing up my ECU to send in right now 

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sopey15 said:


> Can APR Plus be purchased and flashed by sending in the ECU or would we have to wait until dealers are able to flash them? Wasn't sure if Plus requires an in person flash since it will carry a warranty.


A dealer would have to send in your ECU.


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## Jmarks124 (Apr 28, 2020)

*I think that was a big "IF"*



zackdawley said:


> Boxing up my ECU to send in right now
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk



Arin from APR said *"IF"*

I would leave it in if you want to drive it around.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Jmarks124 said:


> Arin from APR said *"IF"*
> 
> I would leave it in if you want to drive it around.


 



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## NJGrown (Sep 24, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> A dealer would have to send in your ECU.


We have the APR hardware needed to bench flash ECU's here at my dealership. Would that be doable without sending out the ECU?


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

NJGrown said:


> We have the APR hardware needed to bench flash ECU's here at my dealership. Would that be doable without sending out the ECU?





[email protected] said:


> If released today, the ECU would be send in only. Dealers cannot flash them yet.


Sounds like no for now.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

NJGrown said:


> We have the APR hardware needed to bench flash ECU's here at my dealership. Would that be doable without sending out the ECU?


From what I have heard, it is an entirely new process to crack these ECU variants. New harnesses needed to be created and all sorts of other implementations that no one else has at the moment. 


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## SpoonGTI (Dec 3, 2002)

Quick question, would the tune also work on the 2020 tiguan?


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## DCdubz111 (Mar 20, 2020)

SpoonGTI said:


> Quick question, would the tune also work on the 2020 tiguan?


Yes.


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## ec2k1gt (Feb 24, 2011)

Sounds like we may have another tuning option right around the corner with GIAC releasing their tune by end of July.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

ec2k1gt said:


> Sounds like we may have another tuning option right around the corner with GIAC releasing their tune by end of July.


Noice, they make great tunes. I understand REVO is working on one too. 

TBF though, this is an APR thread, so we should probably keep the chatter focused on them in here. 


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## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

Hey guys check out APRs facebook page.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Urano17 said:


> Hey guys check out APRs facebook page.


You mean this?









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## Urano17 (Jul 7, 2018)

zackdawley said:


> You mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YES!


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## Rhodyvr6 (Sep 9, 2009)

Just posting this as someone had commented before about apr plus being offered in other octanes then 87... confirmed it is not. 

I think if they charge around 1200$ which is what I expect to see... then you get a nice power bump while retaining some form of protection from warranty and then when it runs out, you can bump it up a bit for higher octane. 











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## schagaphonic (Aug 24, 2008)

Arin,

Will Stage 1 adapt automatically to different octane fuels including 87?


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

schagaphonic said:


> Arin,
> 
> Will Stage 1 adapt automatically to different octane fuels including 87?


Just a guess but I would venture to say they are optimized for a specific octane considering there’s individual tunes for each octane. 


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

schagaphonic said:


> Arin,
> 
> Will Stage 1 adapt automatically to different octane fuels including 87?


No, there's no way to automatically adapt octanes. Knock control can help do some form of lower output protection, but only to degree and it's not something that's safe to suggest. We'll have separate maps for each octane that will need to be flashed to the ECU.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> No, there's no way to automatically adapt octanes. Knock control can help do some form of lower output protection, but only to degree and it's not something that's safe to suggest. We'll have separate maps for each octane that will need to be flashed to the ECU.


I’d take this with a grain of salt. Unless there’s been a deprovement in engine knock technology over the past 20 years I’d say you’re fine to run a lower octane in a pinch. I drove my ‘05 big turbo GLI out to Vegas from Ohio. Obviously I was using software that assumed 93 octane fuel, but once you get so far across the country, 93 isn’t available anymore. That is too many hallucinogens ago to remember how the car responded but no harm to that 1.8T AFAIK.


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## jddaigle (May 30, 2003)

Savvv said:


> I’d take this with a grain of salt. Unless there’s been a deprovement in engine knock technology over the past 20 years I’d say you’re fine to run a lower octane in a pinch. I drove my ‘05 big turbo GLI out to Vegas from Ohio. Obviously I was using software that assumed 93 octane fuel, but once you get so far across the country, 93 isn’t available anymore. That is too many hallucinogens ago to remember how the car responded but no harm to that 1.8T AFAIK.


A bit of a tangent, but the reason you don't see 93 in a lot of the Rocky Mountain west is because of altitude. The reduced oxygen content of the air at higher altitudes also reduces the need for anti-knock agents in the fuel. So using 91 octane here in Denver, for example, gives you the same amount of knock protection as 93 does at or near sea level. So instead of 87/91/93 gas stations here sell 85/89/91.


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## Savvv (Apr 22, 2009)

jddaigle said:


> A bit of a tangent, but the reason you don't see 93 in a lot of the Rocky Mountain west is because of altitude. The reduced oxygen content of the air at higher altitudes also reduces the need for anti-knock agents in the fuel. So using 91 octane here in Denver, for example, gives you the same amount of knock protection as 93 does at or near sea level. So instead of 87/91/93 gas stations here sell 85/89/91.


That’s interesting because tuners offer 91 and 93 files with varying power figures. By that logic they’d only have to offer one tune and the ECU will adapt based on fuel AND atmospheric conditions. 

Furthermore, as a dealer who does tunes for people all the time, I’ve seen files on the server for certain vehicles that have high atmosphere versions of the same tune. So where there may be a normal Stage 1+, there’s a Stage 1+ high elevation/atmos version.


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

Can someone explain the graph to me?

There are 6 fuel types cited, but 7 lines.


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

Rhodyvr6 said:


> Just posting this as someone had commented before about apr plus being offered in other octanes then 87... confirmed it is not.
> 
> I think if they charge around 1200$ which is what I expect to see... then you get a nice power bump while retaining some form of protection from warranty and then when it runs out, you can bump it up a bit for higher octane.
> 
> ...


For those that have done APR Plus, reading that the JB4 is similar in performance and you reduce the risk of being flagged? True


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## DCdubz111 (Mar 20, 2020)

phlegm said:


> Can someone explain the graph to me?
> 
> There are 6 fuel types cited, but 7 lines.



Baseline pull is the bottom and then the other 6 octanes on above... :thumbup:


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Reihenmotor5 said:


> For those that have done APR Plus, reading that the JB4 is similar in performance and you reduce the risk of being flagged? True
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Definitely true because JB4 is just a piggyback system and can be unplugged anytime and poof, totally back to stick mapping after 50 or so miles of adaptation. 


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

DCdubz111 said:


> Baseline pull is the bottom and then the other 6 octanes on above... :thumbup:


Hey, thanks - so there are some markets with below 87 octane?


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## xd-data-ii (Feb 22, 2012)

phlegm said:


> Hey, thanks - so there are some markets with below 87 octane?


The lowest greenish torque and power lines are the stock baseline (most likely with 87 octane).
The six above are the APR tune gains with different fuel types as written above the graph (starting with 87 octane tune (olive colour)).


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

xd-data-ii said:


> The lowest greenish torque and power lines are the stock baseline (most likely with 87 octane).
> The six above are the APR tune gains with different fuel types as written above the graph (starting with 87 octane tune (olive colour)).


Appreciate the input and don't want to dwell on this, but the top of the graph lists "87, 91, 93, 100, 104, E85", 6 fuels.

Graph has 7 lines, so there's something tracked that's not accounted for. Just curious to know what it might represent, no biggie.


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## faroodi (Feb 4, 2003)

phlegm said:


> Appreciate the input and don't want to dwell on this, but the top of the graph lists "87, 91, 93, 100, 104, E85", 6 fuels.
> 
> Graph has 7 lines, so there's something tracked that's not accounted for. Just curious to know what it might represent, no biggie.


Stock with no tune.


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

faroodi said:


> Stock with no tune.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Again, appreciated, but the graph has 2 X 7 lines, first 7 are stock, higher 7 are APR Stage 1, 6 fuels.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

phlegm said:


> Again, appreciated, but the graph has 2 X 7 lines, first 7 are stock, higher 7 are APR Stage 1, 6 fuels.


No, bottom seven are horsepower, top seven are torque. Stock, 87, 91, 93, 100, 104, e85.


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## faroodi (Feb 4, 2003)

^^this

Sorry I assumed...


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## Sopey15 (Mar 12, 2019)

phlegm said:


> Again, appreciated, but the graph has 2 X 7 lines, first 7 are stock, higher 7 are APR Stage 1, 6 fuels.


The graph has 2 sets of 7 lines. One group of 7 shows the *torque*. That group has one line for the stock torque (using 87 octane) along with the APR stage 1 torque using 87, 91, 93, 100, 104 and E85. The other group of 7 lines show the *horsepower*. That group has one line for the stock factory horsepower (using 87 octane) along with the APR stage 1 horsepower using 87, 91, 93, 100, 104 and E85.

Edit: AkiraSieghart posted a labeled version of the dyno graph as I was typing. Just follow that and it will make sense.


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

faroodi said:


> ^^this
> 
> Sorry I assumed...
> 
> ...


Ha, thanks perfect! The previous pic had bits missing.


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

Sopey15 said:


> The graph has 2 sets of 7 lines. One group of 7 shows the *torque*. That group has one line for the stock torque (using 87 octane) along with the APR stage 1 torque using 87, 91, 93, 100, 104 and E85. The other group of 7 lines show the *horsepower*. That group has one line for the stock factory horsepower (using 87 octane) along with the APR stage 1 horsepower using 87, 91, 93, 100, 104 and E85.
> 
> Edit: AkiraSieghart posted a labeled version of the dyno graph as I was typing. Just follow that and it will make sense.


Yep, perfect - thanks for clarifying! Labels help.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

phlegm said:


> Yep, perfect - thanks for clarifying! Labels help.


It's pretty much standard with any dyno graphs but most snippets from tuners like the one APR posted don't really offer much clarification so I can see why some may get a bit confused. 

That being said; *wow* the stock torque curve is absolutely low. Even the base 87 octane tune is going to make it feel like a completely different car.


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## PZ (May 9, 2002)

So stock, it's about 163hp/190tq to the wheels. My 2.8 4Mo B5 Passat only put down 153hp/166tq to the wheels and it was rated 190hp/206tq. The Tiguan feels quicker and gets far better mpg on the highway despite being less aerodynamic. The extra 40-45hp/50-60tq on the 87 tune should really wake it up.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

PZ said:


> So stock, it's about 163hp/190tq to the wheels. My 2.8 4Mo B5 Passat only put down 153hp/166tq to the wheels and it was rated 190hp/206tq. The Tiguan feels quicker and gets far better mpg on the highway despite being less aerodynamic. The extra 40-45hp/50-60tq on the 87 tune should really wake it up.


Better transmission, and you might be surprised about airflow dynamics

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## 1054521247 (Jun 17, 2018)

Hello I am new to tuning, no clue about tuning beside it can make the car faster lol. I have few questions I want to ask. Those numbers look very impressive. Its making my finger itchy. Will this tune fix the transmission lag too (I know there is some type of fix for 2018 but 2019 still lag too)? how reliable is this tune? Chance of engine failure, maybe wear out engine faster? Will the 87-octane tune cost the same as 93 octanes? where to get 100 octane I never seen any gas station has it? I know this tune is not out yet, about how much it runs? being reading here a little I know ecu need to be send in but about how long the full processes will take (it’s unreasonable to go without a car for 10+ days)? Also seen people in Audi forum talking about stage 2 tune; what is stage 2 tune? going from stage 1 to 2 I will have to pay for the retune again?


Thanks for anyone trying to answer.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

1054521247 said:


> Hello I am new to tuning, no clue about tuning beside it can make the car faster lol. I have few questions I want to ask. Those numbers look very impressive. Its making my finger itchy. Will this tune fix the transmission lag too (I know there is some type of fix for 2018 but 2019 still lag too)? how reliable is this tune? Chance of engine failure, maybe wear out engine faster? Will the 87-octane tune cost the same as 93 octanes? where to get 100 octane I never seen any gas station has it? I know this tune is not out yet, about how much it runs? being reading here a little I know ecu need to be send in but about how long the full processes will take (it’s unreasonable to go without a car for 10+ days)? Also seen people in Audi forum talking about stage 2 tune; what is stage 2 tune? going from stage 1 to 2 I will have to pay for the retune again?
> 
> 
> Thanks for anyone trying to answer.


1) No, this tune will not directly affect the transmission. A TCU (transmission control unit) tune would be separate from the ECU (engine control unit) tune and as far as I know, APR isn't even working on the TCU at all.

2) That's the million dollar question. APR does extensive tests with their tune but ultimately, every car is different. Something that affects your engine may not affect everyone else's. It's also going to heavily depend on your engine condition beforehand, whether you do regular/proper maintenance, quality of fuel, and driving habits.

3) I don't think prices have been announced but I'd guess a price of around $799. Most of the tunes for different octanes will most likely be the same except for their APR Plus tune which will have lower power but will come with *APR's* drivetrain warranty. If you have a drivetrain issue and VW discovers you were tuned, they can try to deny warranty claims. It's not definite but it's a possibility that comes with modifying your car.

4) 100+ octane (as well as pure e85) aren't widely available and are going to heavily depend on your area. For example, in San Diego, I think there's only three gas stations in the entire city that offer 100 octane fuel. Personally, the extra bit of numbers you'll get with 100+ over 93 isn't worth the $9.99+/gallon you'll be paying.

5) It's really impossible to know how long it'll take the tune and return the ECU's. I'm sure it's going to heavily depend on the amount of people who send their ECUs in as well as how many technicians they have available due to the pandemic. Once APR starts allowing orders, I'm sure a *ton* of people are going to sign up. I'd prepare for at least two weeks from sending it out and receiving it/

6) Stage 2 tunes are typically higher power and require at least an aftermarket downpipe. I assume whether or not APR will work on one for the MQB Tiguan is going to heavily depend on how much Stage 1 tunes they sell and whether there's any more power to pull out of the engine even with a downpipe. And yes, you will need to pay for the Stage 2 tune and will have to send your ECU in again unless either the tuning process changes or you wait for the Stage 2 to be released (if it is) and just go straight to Stage 2.


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

I hope this effects some of the lag issues with throttle response off the line. It’s dangerous if you not in sport mode.


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## xd-data-ii (Feb 22, 2012)

jhonyquest97 said:


> I hope this effects some of the lag issues with throttle response off the line. It’s dangerous if you not in sport mode.


use VCDS, Carista or Obdeleven to change the throttle input to direct. Vast improvement. 
Definitely doesn’t have much throttle response lag off the line. Nowhere near as bad as a DSG.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

jhonyquest97 said:


> I hope this effects some of the lag issues with throttle response off the line. It’s dangerous if you not in sport mode.


So you have a 2018 and haven't had the tsb done?

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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

zackdawley said:


> So you have a 2018 and haven't had the tsb done?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


A lot of dealers are refusing to actually perform it. It was apparently only a Canadian market TSB. 


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

zimmie2652 said:


> A lot of dealers are refusing to actually perform it. It was apparently only a Canadian market TSB.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's not true at all... I started the main thread on here with photos of paperwork and Oregon is in the United States 

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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

zackdawley said:


> That's not true at all... I started the main thread on here with photos of paperwork and Oregon is in the United States
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


I know but that’s what dealers are telling people now about it. It’s all over the Tiguan FB groups. I’ve seen like 10 people recently state that. 


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

xd-data-ii said:


> use VCDS, Carista or Obdeleven to change the throttle input to direct. Vast improvement.
> Definitely doesn’t have much throttle response lag off the line. Nowhere near as bad as a DSG.



Did this a long time ago Still have very noticable issues. To the point where i have to go 60% or more on the pedal to get a response so I don't get hit pulling into traffic.


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## faroodi (Feb 4, 2003)

Sprint Booster or similar products make this a lot better - I have this on my wife’s 2019 and it is huge accelerating onto highways etc


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## jhonyquest97 (Aug 28, 2008)

zackdawley said:


> So you have a 2018 and haven't had the tsb done?
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


If it wasn't sent to my house i didn't know it existed. I stopped looking a long time ago as this isn't the car I drive regularly and it doesn't seem to bother my wife. I don't spend much time on vortex anymore lol.


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## Sensei Splinter (Mar 14, 2020)

How many of us are going to e85 for the apr tune?


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

Sensei Splinter said:


> How many of us are going to e85 for the apr tune?


I can't see why anyone would go for any specialty fuel like e85 or 95+ octane fuel considering it's not much of a difference in HP/TQ and it won't be possible to change fuel maps without shipping the ECU back to APR. Either the availability, the price of said fuel, or the availability turns me off of the idea.


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## gti_addict (Nov 22, 2000)

AkiraSieghart said:


> I can't see why anyone would go for any specialty fuel like e85 or 95+ octane fuel considering it's not much of a difference in HP/TQ and it won't be possible to change fuel maps without shipping the ECU back to APR. Either the availability, the price of said fuel, or the availability turns me off of the idea.


How is e85 not much of a difference, the graph looks like it's a pretty high increase over 87, 91, and 93. I can see that availability could be an issue for some, but e85 price usually runs around 50 cents cheaper than 87 and close to $1 cheaper than 91.


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## SSG92 (May 4, 2019)

I’m curious about the e85 file. I’m assuming they can do this because the Tiguan demands less fuel than the other 2.0’s? Either way I’m glad something is coming out. My only complaint with my wife’s 19 would be the lack of power.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

gti_addict said:


> How is e85 not much of a difference, the graph looks like it's a pretty high increase over 87, 91, and 93. I can see that availability could be an issue for some, but e85 price usually runs around 50 cents cheaper than 87 and close to $1 cheaper than 91.


E85 is cheaper because it contains less energy than plain gasoline. it has higher octane and the alcohol also has a faster flame speed but less energy. That means you need more alcohol mass per unit air for the same output compared to gasoline.


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## gti_addict (Nov 22, 2000)

gerardrjj said:


> E85 is cheaper because it contains less energy than plain gasoline. it has higher octane and the alcohol also has a faster flame speed but less energy. That means you need more alcohol mass per unit air for the same output compared to gasoline.


I understand the difference in e85, my response was to the statement that e85 did not make much difference and costs more. Both of which are not true statements, it costs less and provides more hp at a cost of MPG. Now the availability can be a factor for some, but it does outperform regular gasoline octanes.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

gti_addict said:


> I understand the difference in e85, my response was to the statement that e85 did not make much difference and costs more. Both of which are not true statements, it costs less and provides more hp at a cost of MPG. Now the availability can be a factor for some, but it does outperform regular gasoline octanes.


I'm aware that e85 is generally lower in price, but availability would still have me concerned. I personally don't see the extra ~20HP/20TQ worth the decrease in MPG from 93 but that's just me. I take a lot of trips with my Tiguan--hell, I relocated from NJ to SoCal and drove my Tiguan to do it. I feel like if you tune your Tiguan to a specialty fuel like e85 or 94+, long trips become impossible without having to ship your ECU back to APR to change the fuel map. I mean, e85...what would expect to get; ~14-18 MPG?


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## Rtdave87 (May 14, 2019)

Will running 92 on a 93 tune be an issue? I don't have 91 0r 93 where I live.

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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

Rtdave87 said:


> Will running 92 on a 93 tune be an issue? I don't have 91 0r 93 where I live.
> 
> Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


I personally wouldn't--especially not on an engine with FI. It's all going to depend on the quality of the 92 gas that you use, but using <93 on a 93 tune is not going to be something that any tuner ever recommends. I retuned my Corvette that was tuned for 93 down to 91 because I moved to SoCal where 93 doesn't exist. I've seen a lot of people claim that SoCal's 91 is basically no different from 93 but again, I wouldn't trust it. Worst comes to worst, you send your ECU in and get it tuned for 93 and the 92 in your area causes stuttering and knocking at WOT and you need to re-send your ECU and have it changed to 91.


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## blueimp (Sep 5, 2019)

Rtdave87 said:


> Will running 92 on a 93 tune be an issue? I don't have 91 0r 93 where I live.
> 
> Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


running 92 on a 91 tune would be prob be the safer bet, or run 50/50 of 91 and 93 to get your 92.


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## Rtdave87 (May 14, 2019)

blueimp said:


> running 92 on a 91 tune would be prob be the safer bet, or run 50/50 of 91 and 93 to get your 92.


I dont have 91 0r 93 only 87,89,92

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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

Rtdave87 said:


> I dont have 91 0r 93 only 87,89,92
> 
> Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


That's why you'd use 92 on a 91 tune.


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## SwiftGTI (Jul 15, 2011)

Yeah it really comes down to intended usage. I have a track/weekend canyon car that I converted to e85. Makes a nice difference in power and a huge reduction in knock at track temps. Since the car is mainly driven locally, e85 availability is not an issue. 

On the Tiguan, being our family hauler, I'd only consider it if map switching was available. Otherwise I wouldn't run it. But if someone was using their Tiguan as a local runabout with a lot of e85 available, I could see it being feasible.

The real solution is to make e85 available nationwide!


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## joszer (May 1, 2016)

AkiraSieghart said:


> gti_addict said:
> 
> 
> > I understand the difference in e85, my response was to the statement that e85 did not make much difference and costs more. Both of which are not true statements, it costs less and provides more hp at a cost of MPG. Now the availability can be a factor for some, but it does outperform regular gasoline octanes.
> ...


You guys forget that APR allows you to flash MULTIPLE tunes onto the ECU. You can choose which Tune to load up using the cruise control stalk before you turn on your car. I did this with my Golf R and now current RS3. I run 91, E85, and Stock tunes on my RS3. To switch between them is just a flick of a button before turning on the car. You could easily flash in a 87, 91, 93, and E85 tune into the ECU. 

That's if they support map switching for this ECU which I hope to God they would.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

joszer said:


> You guys forget that APR allows you to flash MULTIPLE tunes onto the ECU. You can choose which Tune to load up using the cruise control stalk before you turn on your car. I did this with my Golf R and now current RS3. I run 91, E85, and Stock tunes on my RS3. To switch between them is just a flick of a button before turning on the car. You could easily flash in a 87, 91, 93, and E85 tune into the ECU.
> 
> That's if they support map switching for this ECU which I hope to God they would.


I'm hoping so too but since Arin didn't clarify (nor has he chimed in), I'm preparing myself for a no. Not to mention that from what I can find, the B9 3.0 ECU from Audi, which was also very locked down and requires the ECU to be sent in or to be cracked from a dealer, does *not* support map switching which isn't a good sign.


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## CTK (Jan 18, 2018)

gti_addict said:


> How is e85 not much of a difference, the graph looks like it's a pretty high increase over 87, 91, and 93. I can see that availability could be an issue for some, but e85 price usually runs around 50 cents cheaper than 87 and close to $1 cheaper than 91.


E85 usually costs more to run per mile though, which in the end is what really matters. And even if availability isn't an issue locally, it can be if you want to do a long drive, which I imagine many people with Tiguans do. E85 just seems like a lot of hassle for no reason


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## VWturbonium (Jul 15, 2003)

CTK said:


> E85 usually costs more to run per mile though, which in the end is what really matters. And even if availability isn't an issue locally, it can be if you want to do a long drive, which I imagine many people with Tiguans do. E85 just seems like a lot of hassle for no reason



Maybe vs. 87 octane. Around where I am E85 is like 60% the cost of 93.
The extra torque and smoother power delivery(usually the ECU doesn't have to mess around with timing on a good E tune) will be worth it to a lot of people. Also encouraging that the fuel system can handle full E85 on the stock turbo, people that upgrade to IS20's or IS38's should be able to run ~E30 blends and have a decent amount of headroom.


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## TickTockTiggy (Jul 1, 2020)

I wanna flash my Tiguan, I just got it yesterday and have 97 miles. I’ll wait until after 1000 to be safe. However, I need some guidance as to which is the best bang for the buck from those who have experience with this platform. I’m going to read through this entire thread, but any help appreciated! :wave:


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

TickTockTiggy said:


> I wanna flash my Tiguan, I just got it yesterday and have 97 miles. I’ll wait until after 1000 to be safe. However, I need some guidance as to which is the best bang for the buck from those who have experience with this platform. I’m going to read through this entire thread, but any help appreciated! :wave:


The TLR is the flash hasn't been released yet 

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## Rhodyvr6 (Sep 9, 2009)

TickTockTiggy said:


> I wanna flash my Tiguan, I just got it yesterday and have 97 miles. I’ll wait until after 1000 to be safe. However, I need some guidance as to which is the best bang for the buck from those who have experience with this platform. I’m going to read through this entire thread, but any help appreciated! :wave:


You have zero options right now besides jb4 or a neuspeed power module. Unitronic and apr are supposedly close but neither have released a tune yet. 


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## CTK (Jan 18, 2018)

VWturbonium said:


> Maybe vs. 87 octane. Around where I am E85 is like 60% the cost of 93.
> The extra torque and smoother power delivery(usually the ECU doesn't have to mess around with timing on a good E tune) will be worth it to a lot of people. Also encouraging that the fuel system can handle full E85 on the stock turbo, people that upgrade to IS20's or IS38's should be able to run ~E30 blends and have a decent amount of headroom.


Are people really gonna be upgrading their turbos and the like on their warranty'd family haulers? Seems extreme and unlikely. We're talking about a 3800-3900lb family crossover here, not a hot hatch.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

CTK said:


> Are people really gonna be upgrading their turbos and the like on their warranty'd family haulers? Seems extreme and unlikely. We're talking about a 3800-3900lb family crossover here, not a hot hatch.


Whatever it takes to get to the limit of what the transmission will hold. 

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## Sopey15 (Mar 12, 2019)

Rhodyvr6 said:


> You have zero options right now besides jb4 or a neuspeed power module. Unitronic and apr are supposedly close but neither have released a tune yet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most people are waiting for Unitronic and APR (myself included) but there is the MTM tune that at least one other person on the forums has tried.


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## Rhodyvr6 (Sep 9, 2009)

Sopey15 said:


> Most people are waiting for Unitronic and APR (myself included) but there is the MTM tune that at least one other person on the forums has tried.


Solid point I forgot about MTM!


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## TickTockTiggy (Jul 1, 2020)

You have zero options right now besides jb4 or a neuspeed power module. Unitronic and apr are supposedly close but neither have released a tune yet.[/QUOTE]

Most people are waiting for Unitronic and APR (myself included) but there is the MTM tune that at least one other person on the forums has tried.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I realized the tune was still under development after reading more into it. I’m excited to be able to have the option coming


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## PZ (May 9, 2002)

CTK said:


> Are people really gonna be upgrading their turbos and the like on their warranty'd family haulers? Seems extreme and unlikely. We're talking about a 3800-3900lb family crossover here, not a hot hatch.


 Yes, much like the B5 Passat sedan was just a family sedan. Once people found out what they could do with upgrades, it became pretty popular. You will have some early modders who push the engine as much as possible. Someone already has a billet IS38 turbo installed. I expect the GTI's IS20 would be popular upgrade over the mini IS20 in the Tiguan.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

joszer said:


> That's if they support map switching for this ECU which I hope to God they would.


They're not choosing not to add it...it's they can't. There's no room for it


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## JDHRNC (Jun 17, 2006)

There is another option for you all to consider and that would be Race Chips out of Germany. High quality components and they are claiming 50+ whp. Similar in nature to the Jb4, and they even have a model (GTS) that offers engine warranty

https://www.racechip.com/shop/vw/tiguan-ii-ad-from-2016/2-0-tsi-1984ccm-180hp-132kw-320nm.html


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

JDHRNC said:


> There is another option for you all to consider and that would be Race Chips out of Germany. High quality components and they are claiming 50+ whp. Similar in nature to the Jb4, and they even have a model (GTS) that offers engine warranty
> 
> https://www.racechip.com/shop/vw/tiguan-ii-ad-from-2016/2-0-tsi-1984ccm-180hp-132kw-320nm.html


For 500 euros? Sounds too good to be true to me...


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## Tarik (Jun 21, 1999)

They have us web site and offer three different versions. 

I would like to know more....

https://www.racechip.us/shop/vw/tiguan-ii-ad-from-2016/2-0-tsi-1984ccm-184hp-137kw-221lb-ft.html

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## VWturbonium (Jul 15, 2003)

PZ said:


> Yes, much like the B5 Passat sedan was just a family sedan. Once people found out what they could do with upgrades, it became pretty popular. You will have some early modders who push the engine as much as possible. Someone already has a billet IS38 turbo installed. I expect the GTI's IS20 would be popular upgrade over the mini IS20 in the Tiguan.


Exactly. If there's a market for an APR tune, why wouldn't some of those people go for an easy bolt-on turbo upgrade? Doesn't need to be huge or even an aftermarket turbo, just enough of an upgrade to carry out the powerband to redline, for which the GTI IS20 is probably fine.


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## AkiraSieghart (Nov 20, 2019)

VWturbonium said:


> Exactly. If there's a market for an APR tune, why wouldn't some of those people go for an easy bolt-on turbo upgrade? Doesn't need to be huge or even an aftermarket turbo, just enough of an upgrade to carry out the powerband to redline, for which the GTI IS20 is probably fine.


Didn't Arin or somebody else say that the trans is only rated to 300tq?


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## CTK (Jan 18, 2018)

VWturbonium said:


> Exactly. If there's a market for an APR tune, why wouldn't some of those people go for an easy bolt-on turbo upgrade? Doesn't need to be huge or even an aftermarket turbo, just enough of an upgrade to carry out the powerband to redline, for which the GTI IS20 is probably fine.


To each their own I guess. To me, swapping the turbo for more top end pull makes sense for a 3100lb manual sedan................. but not so much for a 3800lb automatic crossover. But if there's demand for it then it's a no brainer I guess.


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## VWturbonium (Jul 15, 2003)

CTK said:


> To each their own I guess. To me, swapping the turbo for more top end pull makes sense for a 3100lb manual sedan................. but not so much for a 3800lb automatic crossover. But if there's demand for it then it's a no brainer I guess.


That's fair and you're right that the MQB Tiguan is never going to be a huge market for big upgrades. 

For those worried about lag or the transmission....remember that VW thought the GTI-spec EA888/IS20 combo was fine for the even heavier Atlas with the same transmission as the Tiguan. APR has had those running around with tunes making some pretty big HP and TQ numbers for over a year now.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

CTK said:


> Are people really gonna be upgrading their turbos and the like on their warranty'd family haulers? Seems extreme and unlikely. We're talking about a 3800-3900lb family crossover here, not a hot hatch.


A member in Tiguan Owners FB group has already gone is38. His tuner was having zero success however and his progress has been severely hampered. He now has to drive 12-14hrs to a more capable tuner. 


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

AkiraSieghart said:


> Didn't Arin or somebody else say that the trans is only rated to 300tq?


It’s something around 330ft/lbs. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

zimmie2652 said:


> A member in Tiguan Owners FB group has already gone is38. His tuner was having zero success however and his progress has been severely hampered. He now has to drive 12-14hrs to a more capable tuner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I questioned him about whether his tuner can tune the ECU, he got insulted... And now I get to be smug but not going rub it in

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

BsickPassat said:


> I questioned him about whether his tuner can tune the ECU, he got insulted... And now I get to be smug but not going rub it in
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


I was more confused how they were able to tune it before but can’t do some adjustments for the new turbo. 

I’d love to hear more about what problems they were facing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

zimmie2652 said:


> I was more confused how they were able to tune it before but can’t do some adjustments for the new turbo.
> 
> I’d love to hear more about what problems they were facing.
> 
> ...


The turbo probably gave a bump in power by itself, as it's probably operating in more efficient region of the turbo.

But he is also at the torque capacity of the transmission.

The original tuner.... Doesn't have any MG1 tunes for the B9 S5 and RS5, which is a red flag for me

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Torque: You can limit torque and still make more HP with a larger turbo setup. 

HP = FTLBS of torque * RPM / 5252

So, assuming 300 was a limit we chose (It's not the limit, just a number I chose for illustration), you can have a maximum of this much HP at each RPM point below, assuming the setup can achieve it:


```
0 RPM -   0 HP
 500 RPM -  29 HP 
1000 RPM -  57 HP
1500 RPM -  86 HP
2000 RPM - 114 HP
2500 RPM - 143 HP
3000 RPM - 171 HP
3500 RPM - 200 HP
4000 RPM - 228 HP
4500 RPM - 257 HP
5000 RPM - 286 HP
5500 RPM - 314 HP
6000 RPM - 343 HP
6500 RPM - 371 HP
7000 RPM - 400 HP
7500 RPM - 428 HP
8000 RPM - 457 HP
```


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## MavSBM (Feb 27, 2008)

Is emissions testing done yet?


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## Anothermk2Tig (May 6, 2020)

MavSBM said:


> Is emissions testing done yet?


I’m anxiously waiting to know this as well 😂


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## B7RsForSam (Jul 30, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Update:
> 
> APR Plus and APR Stage 1 87, 91, 93, 100, 104, and E60-E85 tunes are done. We're emissions testing now (will be several weeks) and working on making sure we can flash with an ECU sent in without the car here. Max gains on E are around 100 WTQ / 70 WHP, and 80 WTQ / 55 WHP on 93. We'll get a better picture of it once we process all the data (average multiple runs, etc). This is all with stock hardware.
> 
> -Arin


Any update sir?


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

B7RsForSam said:


> Any update sir?


Emissions testing has been done for a week or two now from my understanding and they have real world beta testing going on. 

Only a few more weeks at this point hopefully. 


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

B7RsForSam said:


> Any update sir?


They are beta testing, it's amazing. I'm running the 91 octane tune using 92 octane non-ethanol and it's wonderful. My wife who never notices things said it felt like it wasn't being held back at all anymore.

Also bonus that auto stop/start stays in the last position, so if you don't want it, just leave it off and it stays off.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

This is also the main thread

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...7&share_fid=7951&share_type=t&link_source=app

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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Passed emissions. Beta testing. Hope: port flash at launch (probably not). We'll see!


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## JODZ (Feb 16, 1999)

Any chance this tune will fix the hesitation issues on the 2018's?


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

JODZ said:


> Any chance this tune will fix the hesitation issues on the 2018's?


No you need TSB # 01-19-02 performed at the dealer which updates the transmission control module. Unless APR’s tune adjusts transmission. Adding more power to the bad transmission programming seems like a bad idea. 

In my honest opinion... 2018 owners shouldn’t tune unless they have this update. With the way 2018s bang and clunk into a lower gear on heavy acceleration - I’d be afraid that with the added power you could grenade the transmission over time. 

I’d be curious if APR has looked into this/or maybe they should issue a precaution for 2018 owners who want to tune. 2019s and 2020s are fine. But 2018s without TSB 01-19-02 bang into gear and loosely lock up the torque converter when accelerating heavily. All that is fixed and brought up to 2020 spec after the update. 


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

JODZ said:


> Any chance this tune will fix the hesitation issues on the 2018's?


You should get the TSB dinner first, as there's hardware and software for both ECU and TCU. My wife did comment "I normally don't notice the things you do to our cars, even when you ask me to notice, but I can really tell with this, it's like it's not being held back at all anymore, it just goes"

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## JODZ (Feb 16, 1999)

I had that done last July, however it's started again. Only this time no engine codes, or any codes period. I even stalled twice... They keep saying they cannot reproduce any hesitation...smfh


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

I'd get it fixed before doing something they could claim a warranty void for...

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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

JODZ said:


> I had that done last July, however it's started again. Only this time no engine codes, or any codes period. I even stalled twice... They keep saying they cannot reproduce any hesitation...smfh


How many miles? Could be carbon build up


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## JODZ (Feb 16, 1999)

D3Audi said:


> How many miles? Could be carbon build up
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


just turned 22k


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

JODZ said:


> just turned 22k


Worth a check, if it is carbon on the valves you're not going to make it better with a tune.

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## Tynerion (Dec 24, 2018)

*Is it out?*

Saw the release of the flash at home for APR.

https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Volk...n-3/USP-Motorsports-APR-At-Home-Flashing.html

One of the vehilces listed "Volkswagen Tiguan 2.0T - 2018-2021"

I know there is a chance that is ROW, but hoping.


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

Tynerion said:


> Saw the release of the flash at home for APR.
> 
> https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Volk...n-3/USP-Motorsports-APR-At-Home-Flashing.html
> 
> ...


Yeah, ROW... they don't have a dealer option yet... Might upset a lot of dealers if they skipped them.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

So we’ve got one tester already reporting issues, any other beta guys experiencing problems? 


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## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

zimmie2652 said:


> So we’ve got one tester already reporting issues, any other beta guys experiencing problems?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My city mileage is down, but I think that's my fault 

No issues so far.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Sopey15 (Mar 12, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> So we’ve got one tester already reporting issues, any other beta guys experiencing problems?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where did you see the report with issues?


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## tmoe (Mar 23, 2008)

Tynerion said:


> Saw the release of the flash at home for APR.
> 
> https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Volk...n-3/USP-Motorsports-APR-At-Home-Flashing.html
> 
> ...


While this supports APR at home flashing this is not an APR product, its something USP Motorsport came up and will support. For many that doesn't matter, it also shows that it can be done, it's just not something APR is committed to supporting or offering.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Sopey15 said:


> zimmie2652 said:
> 
> 
> > So we’ve got one tester already reporting issues, any other beta guys experiencing problems?
> ...


+1 yeah where did you get this info?


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

christophe15 said:


> +1 yeah where did you get this info?


Direct from the testing vehicle owner. 


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## Sopey15 (Mar 12, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> Direct from the testing vehicle owner.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any more details on what kind of issues they are experiencing?


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Sopey15 said:


> Any more details on what kind of issues they are experiencing?


In all honesty, it could turn out to be nothing and he’s meeting up with a rep to discuss and look into the issue today. Car was going into limp mode though. 

Fuel rail related error code was reported from his OBD scanner. 


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## Sopey15 (Mar 12, 2019)

zimmie2652 said:


> In all honesty, it could turn out to be nothing and he’s meeting up with a rep to discuss and look into the issue today. Car was going into limp mode though.
> 
> Fuel rail related error code was reported from his OBD scanner.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update, let us know if anything else comes of it.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

Sopey15 said:


> Thanks for the update, let us know if anything else comes of it.



+1


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## otodd (Dec 5, 2007)

*great if Alex (alexonautos youtube) appends his review with the APR ECU upgrade.*

great if Alex (alexonautos youtube) appends his review of Tiguan with the APR ECU upgrade.


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## WhatupVolks (Aug 25, 2020)

*APR Stage 1*

Hi All, I'm new to this platform. Purchased a 2020 Tiguan SE RLine over the weekend. Quite a change from V8 Mustang but overall I like it. So, I was looking to have it tuned with APR Stage 1 and spoke with a local tuning store here in Orlando. They said they would have it available within a couple weeks at $599 plus $100 labor. However, I also stopped by VW dealership for something else that they promised. I happened to ask their service dept. about tuning options. They told me APR would void the powertrain warranty even though I could re-flash ECU to stock. VW knows how many times ECU is flashed and compares that to their norms, then flags the car as TD1 (out of warranty status code they use). any take on this?


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## rayjpep1 (Aug 7, 2020)

They offer APR plus which is limited warranty that mirrors the factory drivetrain warranty. My dealer offers APR tuning options. I believe APR plus is limited to the 87 octane tuning. 

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk


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## D3Audi (Feb 18, 2016)

WhatupVolks said:


> Hi All, I'm new to this platform. Purchased a 2020 Tiguan SE RLine over the weekend. Quite a change from V8 Mustang but overall I like it. So, I was looking to have it tuned with APR Stage 1 and spoke with a local tuning store here in Orlando. They said they would have it available within a couple weeks at $599 plus $100 labor. However, I also stopped by VW dealership for something else that they promised. I happened to ask their service dept. about tuning options. They told me APR would void the powertrain warranty even though I could re-flash ECU to stock. VW knows how many times ECU is flashed and compares that to their norms, then flags the car as TD1 (out of warranty status code they use). any take on this?


Any ECU tune will void your powertrain warranty. Even if you flash back to stock it will trip the flash counter in the ECU which VW will see and flag your vin. There’s a video somewhere on this but apparently now when a new VW is plugged into the dealer’s computer, it automatically uploads the data to VW corporate’s server. Which is where it gets flagged. So even if your dealership is mod friendly you will still have issues nowadays. 

APR has their “APR Plus” tune which is a bit more money because it includes a third party warranty that covers your car through the remainder of your factory warranty. Your factory powertrain warranty is still voided but replaced with this third party warranty. 

If you really care about your warranty then don’t flash the car. I spoke to my dealership as to if they ever have dealt with third party warranties for tuned cars (like apr plus) and they said they haven’t and that the factory warranty would still be voided. It also appears that the third party warranty doesn’t cover everything that the factory warranty does and there could be many grey areas. So that’s why I’m personally going to wait until my warranty is up before I tune anything. I doubt anything would go wrong if the car was tuned but if it did it sounds like it would be a headache to deal with under “warranty”. 


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## herkguy (Jan 11, 2006)

D3Audi said:


> If you really care about your warranty then don’t flash the car. I spoke to my dealership as to if they ever have dealt with third party warranties for tuned cars (like apr plus) and they said they haven’t and that the factory warranty would still be voided. It also appears that the third party warranty doesn’t cover everything that the factory warranty does and there could be many grey areas. So that’s why I’m personally going to wait until my warranty is up before I tune anything. I doubt anything would go wrong if the car was tuned but if it did it sounds like it would be a headache to deal with under “warranty”.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I said the same thing for my 2017 Passat..then at 30K miles I couldn't wait...got the 87 tune and never looked back. Just a fantastic tune and only needing 87 oct was perfect for my commuter.
Now at 66k, two years and not one blip from the tune.

Just recently picked up a 20 Tiguan, now I am back in the same boat wanting to add the tune to it also..ugh:banghead:


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

D3Audi said:


> If you really care about your *FACTORY* warranty then don’t flash *MODIFY* the car.


There, fixed that for you :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

http://goapr.io/tig
http://goapr.io/tig
http://goapr.io/tig

APR's ECU Upgrades are the best dollar-per-horsepower modification one can make to improve engine performance. The upgrades dramatically increase horsepower and torque, making for an exceptionally quicker and more exciting vehicle. This is made possible through APR's optimization of the factory engine management system to take full advantage of the engine's capabilities, without needing any end user adjustment. The ECU Upgrades are available with various features and supported octane levels and each stage is compatible with most typical bolt-on modifications. The software is installed to the vehicle's factory ECU through the OBD-II port once the ECU is unlocked, resulting in a clean and headache-free install. Furthermore, for those looking for tuning with a limited powertrain warranty, APR Plus has you covered!

*Features*

Horsepower - More horsepower throughout the whole rpm band
Torque - More torque throughout the whole rpm band
Warranty - APR Plus is available, providing a factory term limit matching limited powertrain warranty
Stages - Multiple performance levels depending on installed hardware
Fuel Grades - Multiple octanes from which to choose
Ethanol - Ethanol support from E60-E85 for maximum performance
Acceleration - Accelerate faster with more power and reduced throttle lag
Linear Throttle - Pedal maps adjusted for a more linear feel
Brake Boosting - Left foot braking or brake boosting added
Standing Limiter - Increased standing limiter for higher revving at idle
Speed Limiter - Go as fast as you want with the speed limiter out of the way
Auto Start/Stop Inversion - Auto Start/Stop defaults to the off position
Economy - While cruising, or driving normally, your fuel economy may benefit from our optimized calibration
Direct Port Programming - Clean and easy install through the OBD II port without opening the ECU
Free Updates - Get free updates for life
Guarantee - 30 day money back guarantee

APR’s ECU Upgrades are available in multiple octanes levels. Each stage is fully compatible with an upgraded intake, catback exhaust, or other minor bolt on modifications.

*APR Plus*

The APR Plus ECU Upgrade is the first step towards making more power, and it includes our limited powertrain warranty. This simple upgrade requires no engine hardware modifications, and produces 234 HP with 270 FT-LBS of torque. Gains as high as 45 HP and 59 FT-LBS of torque are available throughout the power band, making the vehicle exceptionally quicker in all scenarios. The APR Plus ECU Upgrade matches the performance of our Stage 1 ECU Upgrade (87 octane). To get even more power, you can add any of our other Stage 1 compatible products and still be covered under the APR Plus warranty! If you're not interested in the APR Plus limited powertrain warranty, and want even more power, check out our other Stages.

*APR Stage 1*
The APR Stage I ECU Upgrade is the first step towards making more power! This simple upgrade requires no engine hardware modifications, and produces 234-262 HP with 270-311 FT-LBS of torque depending on fuel grade. Gains as high as 45-73 HP and 59-100 FT-LBS of torque are available throughout the power band, depending on fuel grade and factory output, making the vehicle exceptionally quicker in all scenarios. APR Stage 1 is available for 87 AKI, 91 AKI, 93 AKI, 100 AKI, 104 AKI, and E60-E85 fuel grades in North America, and 95 RON, 98 RON, 104 RON, 108 RON, and E60-E85 in the Rest of the World.

Please note, our E85 software is not a full flex fuel program. In this mode the engine is only designed to work on E85, as found directly at the pump, including both summer and winter blends from E60-E85. Using traditional pump fuels in this mode may result in engine damage. Do not manually blend with traditional pump fuel or race fuels or use race specific barrels of E85. To ensure proper E85 content levels, APR recommends using an E85 content sensor. Before using Ethanol, educate yourself and follow our switching guide.

*Dynos*

     

More graphs are on our website, showing power over stock, and power at the wheels, as well as larger versions of the crank graphs above

http://goapr.io/tig
http://goapr.io/tig
http://goapr.io/tig

*Data*


184 HP / 221 FT-LBS - Stock As Reported by Audi
190 HP / 213 FT-LBS - Stock As Measured by APR	

APR PLUS 
234 HP / 270 FT-LBS - +45 HP / +59 FT-LBS - APR Plus (87 AKI)	

STAGE 1 
234 HP / 270 FT-LBS - +45 HP / +59 FT-LBS - 87 AKI / 91 RON	
239 HP / 277 FT-LBS - +50 HP / +66 FT-LBS - 91 AKI / 95 RON	
245 HP / 290 FT-LBS - +56 HP / +79 FT-LBS - 93 AKI / 98 RON	
259 HP / 306 FT-LBS - +70 HP / +95 FT-LBS - 100 AKI / 104 RON	
261 HP / 309 FT-LBS - +72 HP / +98 FT-LBS - 104 AKI / 108 RON	
263 HP / 311 FT-LBS - +73 HP / +100 FT-LBS - E60-E85	

Only use fuel equal to or higher than specified. Never use a lower octane fuel. Always follow our fuel guide, especially with race fuel and Ethanol, where available. Dynos are for reference only. Results will vary. Contributing factors include the vehicle condition, vehicle setup, dyno type, dyno setup, environmental factors, fuel quality, and more. When describing fuels, the North American Region (NAR) uses the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), (RON+MON)/2, or (R+M)/2. The Rest of the World (ROW) uses RON. RON is Research Octane Number and MON is Motor Octane Number.

*The APR Difference*











*Who we are* - We’re a global automotive engineering firm nestled in Opelika, Alabama. Our 80,000ft² state-of-the-art facility is home to some of the best engineers in the industry, who have mastered hundreds of engine management systems. We have multiple engine and chassis dynos, and the resources necessary to create our ECU Upgrades in-house, from the ground up! We're not a new company either. We've been around since the 90's and we have a strong financial backing to ensure we'll be here to support you for decades to come!

*What we do* - We optimize everything to make your engine more powerful. We adjust air-fuel ratios, advance ignition, increase boost pressure, alter cam positions and lift profiles, and more, all depending on the type of engine and management system, of course! We don’t take shortcuts, and we don’t take risks. We do it the right way.

*How we differ* - With our proprietary calibration and direct ram access data logging tools and operating system code changes, we’re able to make some of the strongest and fastest ECU upgrades, without needing costly end user adjustments. We work with the ECUs intelligent modeling and closed-loop systems, and beta test in multiple environments to create upgrades that work no matter where you drive!

*Pricing*

$999.99 - APR Plus ECU Upgrade with a Limited Powertrain Warranty
$599.99 - APR Stage 1 ECU Upgrade
FREE - Switch from APR Plus to APR Stage 1


*Purchasing, Guarantee, and Updates*

*How to Purchase* - This ECU must first be unlocked before software¹ can be installed either by APR or an APR Dealer. If the ECU is locked, you have two options:

*Option 1*: Send us your ECU
*Option 2*: Visit an APR Dealer

*Option 1*: Send us your ECU. We’ll unlock it, confirm what you want, install APR software, bill you if we're installing software, and ship it back. There is no extra fee during the unlocking process. Ground shipping to the continental USA is free. Follow these steps. Please note: This excludes APR Plus. APR Plus must be purchased through an APR Dealer.

*Step 1* - Fill out this unlock form, and select VW/Audi MG1 under unlock type.
*Step 2* - Mail your ECU to APR, 4800 U.S. Hwy 280 W, Opelika, AL 36801, USA, and include the last 6 of your VIN on the outside of the box.

*Option 2*: Visit an APR Dealer and purchase the APR ECU Upgrade through them. They will remove and ship the ECU to APR for unlocking and software install, unless they have the tools to unlock the ECU on the spot.

*Please Note*: At no time during the unlocking process is the ECU opened or physically modified. If the ECU is flashed back to stock, it will need to be unlocked again. If the ECU currently has APR software, and there is an update, a new stage, new feature, or you want to switch octanes, software can be installed by an APR Dealer. Also, vehicle manufacturers issue many ECU part numbers and revisions throughout their vehicle lineup. As such, some ECUs may be temporarily unavailable as new parts and/or revisions are released. If the vehicle’s ECU part number and revision is known, availability can be checked at any APR Dealer or by contacting APR.

*Money-Back Guarantee* - Try our Software Upgrades for up to 30 days, risk free! If you are not satisfied, return to an APR Dealer to have it removed and refunded.²

*Free Updates* - If we make an update, add a standard feature, or if the manufacturer issues an update, you are entitled to a free update.³

1. APR Software may not be available for all vehicles. Stages, programs, and features may not be available for all ECUs.
2. Excludes some Software Upgrades, such as those included with a hardware purchase. Labor charges are at the discretion of the installer.
3. Subject to availability. Labor charges are at the discretion of the installer. Applicable to the original purchaser. Second hand owners may inquire with an APR Dealer about a software license transfer fee.

*More Details*:

http://goapr.io/tig
http://goapr.io/tig
http://goapr.io/tig


----------



## loopless (Oct 4, 2007)

D3Audi said:


> Any ECU tune will void your powertrain warranty. Even if you flash back to stock it will trip the flash counter in the ECU which VW will see and flag your vin. There’s a video somewhere on this but apparently now when a new VW is plugged into the dealer’s computer, it automatically uploads the data to VW corporate’s server. Which is where it gets flagged. So even if your dealership is mod friendly you will still have issues nowadays.
> 
> APR has their “APR Plus” tune which is a bit more money because it includes a third party warranty that covers your car through the remainder of your factory warranty. Your factory powertrain warranty is still voided but replaced with this third party warranty.
> 
> ...


Please don’t spread FUD. The APR+ warranty covers everything the factory power train warranty does. And despite all this talk of ‘flash counters’ it’s very hard to find examples where a vehicle properly flashed back to stock has been flagged unless VW decided to do a forensic examination because the car was obviously modded (APR stickers, intake, cat back etc).


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

loopless said:


> Please don’t spread FUD. The APR+ warranty covers everything the factory power train warranty does. And despite all this talk of ‘flash counters’ it’s very hard to find examples where a vehicle properly flashed back to stock has been flagged unless VW decided to do a forensic examination because the car was obviously modded (APR stickers, intake, cat back etc).


It really doesn’t though and it comes with stricter parameters in a lot of cases. 

There are a ton of gray matters in the wording of the APR+ contracts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The APR warranty is essentially the same as most everything I've read, from VW to Porsche, in terms of powertrain warranty coverage. Writing one thing to fit every caveat is nearly impossible though. 

Are there any specific areas of concern?


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## LarsTomasson (Jul 2, 2018)

*Warranty and ECU changes, and finally a question to the group*

VW can only invalidate your warranty if they can prove that the failure was related to your modifications. So if you reflash the ECU, and you have a suspension problem, they are obviously unrelated. if you have any expensive engine/transmission problem they will probably be able to come up with some plausible reason connected to the ECU reflash since just about everything on the engine/transmission is controlled by the ECU. 

I have some experience with a large warranty claim. My 99 Passat timing belt broke at 67K miles bending the valves. The warranty process was hell. The factory gets involved when there are expensive repairs. Even though this was a known issue that was addressed with a belt and tensioner change, VW made me provide all my oil change documentation and claimed I didn't get a required timing belt inspection. I had to prove that the inspection was not in my owners manual (the inspection requirement was added to the manual later as a way of getting out of the warranty). Providing all this documentation, researching the issues, and the many dealer visit took me maybe 20-30hours and allot of stress. Eventually they did the repair after they scrutinized everything and couldn't find any way to invalidate my warranty. I got my car back fixed about five weeks later. The happy ending is that I had the car for 16 years and 240,000 miles with no other engine problems. As a consequence, if the car is still under warranty I bring the car to the dealer for all oil changes and scheduled maintenance.

The Question:
On my 99 Passat Because of the 100k warranty I purchase a second ECU and had that chipped. Every time it went into the dealer, I would put the original ECU and fuel pressure regulator in. I now have a 2018 Tiguan I would like to reflash. Any idea if I can reflash a second ECU and swap that in when I see the dealer? I have done a little research and I think it is harder than the old days since as I understand there is an immobilizer circuit built into the ECU that is paired with the key, and that can only be programmed by the factory. Can anyone verify if this is true, or am I just making stuff up?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Traditional direct ECU swapping isn't supported as other controllers are coded together so only one ECU can be used at a time.


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

For those of you who have already flashed APR, i inquired about reflash after TSB/Recall for new ECU/TCU software and sounds like APR has not yet seen it and may require resending ECU in... sooo i will be on hold for TSB/Recall until hear further from APR


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

If there is an update in the field, we don't need the ECU sent in for extract. We can get the same updates you get.

If you know the code, I'd be happy to confirm!


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## christophe15 (Nov 12, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> if there is an update in the field, we don't need the ecu sent in for extract. We can get the same updates you get.
> 
> If you know the code, i'd be happy to confirm!


vw action code
24gb


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

FWIW, I have a ton of Tiguan codes. We have all of the latest updates VW pushes out, and the team is on stand-by to update anything necessary. 

That said, I just had a customer confirm his update went to a code we already have on the server, ready to go. :thumbup:


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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

So does that mean I can do the update and my tune not be affected? 


Kurt


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## MetaWolf5280 (Jul 6, 2020)

2019TiguanSELPRLINE said:


> So does that mean I can do the update and my tune not be affected?
> 
> 
> Kurt


Awww, someone changing their stance now?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

2019TiguanSELPRLINE said:


> So does that mean I can do the update and my tune not be affected?
> 
> 
> Kurt


When you get the update, the tune is wiped out. You just need to head on over to an APR dealer to get the our update to their update. 

- Note: Port flashing isn't ready yet but will be shortly. I'd probably just hold off until that happens so there's no down time.


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## faroodi (Feb 4, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> When you get the update, the tune is wiped out. You just need to head on over to an APR dealer to get the our update to their update.
> 
> - Note: Port flashing isn't ready yet but will be shortly. I'd probably just hold off until that happens so there's no down time.


Any tentative ETA Arin?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> When you get the update, the tune is wiped out. You just need to head on over to an APR dealer to get the our update to their update.
> 
> - Note: Port flashing isn't ready yet but will be shortly. I'd probably just hold off until that happens so there's no down time.


Awesome thanks 


Kurt


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

faroodi said:


> Any tentative ETA Arin?


ASAP. Thought it would be this week. Probably next.


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## faroodi (Feb 4, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> ASAP. Thought it would be this week. Probably next.


Great thanks 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

APR DirectPort Programming is now available for all APR ECU Upgrades featuring the new Bosch MG1 ECU!

Every APR dealer everywhere in the world can now install any of our Bosch MG1 based ECU Upgrades without unlocking the ECU. This means no removing ECUs and no shipping them to APR. No new tools are required either as this works with our existing flashing cables. Each ECU upgrade can be flashed directly at any APR dealer just like nearly every other ECU Upgrade in our lineup!

This update applies to all of our Bosch MG1 based ECU Upgrades. Our currently released list of vehicles / platforms includes the following:


2.0T EA888 Gen 3B - New Tiguan/A3
2.0T EA888 Gen 3B OPF - New A1/Polo GTI/Etc
2.9T EA839 V6 - New B9 RS4/RS5
2.9T EA839 V6 MHEV - New C8 S6/S7
3.0T EA839 V6 - New B9 S4/S5/SQ5

Stay tuned for more MG1 support as we expand our current 2.0T 3B, 2.9T, and 3.0T lineup, as well as add additional platform such as the new 4.0T and Porsche 992 platform vehicles. Go APR!


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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

Ohhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmmmm geeeeeeeee!!


Kurt


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The APR Catback Exhaust System is Here!

Details
Details
Details



The APR Catback Exhaust System personalizes your vehicle's sound and performance. Beautifully hand-crafted T304-stainless-steel components adorn the system with stunning TIG-welding throughout. Our straight-through brushed-finished muffler smooths the exhaust note to a deep growl, without adding restrictions, rasp or drone. Strong high-quality bracketry and OEM-style clamps hold the system steadily in place, making the install or removal a snap, and fitment simple, yet precise. The full 3" tubing creates an ultra-smooth exhaust path, steadily feeding exhaust gasses out of the system, while looking tidy from under the rear bumper. Finally, the hidden 3" exhaust exit creates a clean finish that matches the factory exhaust exit strategy.



*Quick Facts*

T304 stainless-steel construction
TIG welding throughout
Single 3" mandrel-bent brushed tubing
Brushed-finished mufflers
Rugged and precise mounting brackets
OEM style slip clamps and Torca AccuSeal T304 tip clamps
Direct bolt-on fit
Low-profile design, suitable for lowered vehicles
Larger diameter piping compared to stock
Lighter weight compared to stock
In-house design with world-class manufacturing and quality control
Easy to install






*Muffler*



The muffler is responsible for tuning the exhaust note and do so without adding unnecessary restrictions to the system. The muffler features a straight-through perforated tube that’s tightly wrapped with stainless steel and fiberglass material. The muffler has a beautiful brushed finish, and are tucked high in the exhaust tunnel, making them perfect for lowered vehicles, or off-roading.

*Exhaust Exit*



Keeping with the design of the Tiguan's factory rear bumper, the exhaust system is hidden underneath the rear bumper. The system tucks neatly out of the way giving you excellent clearance should your Tiguan be lowered, or if you plan an off-road adventure.

*Brackets*



Our brackets ensure a strong and precise fit, every time. With our design, you’ll never need to worry about the brackets sagging and losing their shape over time, or the post slipping out of the hangers. The brackets are rigid, exact in their position, fit snugly in place and are made to stand the test of time.

*Tubing and Welds*





We use T304 stainless steel tubing throughout. We brush and de-burr all pipes, use mandrel bending techniques to ensure the pipes keep a constant diameter throughout, and use TIG welding for a strong and attractive weld.

*Clamps and Hanger*



Our system uses OEM-style low-profile slip clamps. Our clamp selection allows the system to sit high in the exhaust tunnel, as is favored by lowered vehicles, with ultimate compatibility no matter what midpipe you may have. The clamps make for easy install and removal of components. Each connection point is strategically placed to ensure the system has minimal opportunity to rotate during install or during years of heavy driving. The included hanger allows for an additional bracket connection point to further aid in locking the system into place.

*Compatibility*



We’ve designed our system to be direct bolt-on to a 3" midpipe. The included reducer is for use with the factory midpipe.

*Pricing and Product Page*

Pricing and Product Page
Pricing and Product Page
Pricing and Product Page


----------



## otodd (Dec 5, 2007)

*Any driver's reviews of Stage 1 ECU upgrade?*

Any driver's reviews of Stage 1 ECU upgrade?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

otodd said:


> Any driver's reviews of Stage 1 ECU upgrade?


I'm sure someone will chime in, but always keep in mind you can try it yourself for 30 days, risk free.


----------



## zackdawley (Oct 4, 2011)

otodd said:


> Any driver's reviews of Stage 1 ECU upgrade?


I think we've universally said it makes a huge difference, the car feels strong and healthy... 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## RCDheliracer (Jan 7, 2012)

zackdawley said:


> I think we've universally said it makes a huge difference, the car feels strong and healthy...
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


I will second this. It was fun to drive before the tune with the 24GB update but after the tune, I dare say it’s an absolute blast to drive


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## Jmarks124 (Apr 28, 2020)

Much better to drive. As to be expected..


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## mattchatr (Jan 26, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> The APR Catback Exhaust System is Here!
> 
> Details
> Details
> ...


Just listen to those fake exhaust tips.....lol. I think something is missing on this kit....maybe an actual replacement for the fake tips too would be nice!


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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

Just lowered the price of the NON PLUS Stage 1 TUNE to $499!!!

https://www.goapr.com/products/software/ecu_upgrade/parts/ECU-20T-EA888-3B-T


Kurt


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## Kgking1 (Feb 14, 2015)

RCDheliracer said:


> I will second this. It was fun to drive before the tune with the 24GB update but after the tune, I dare say it’s an absolute blast to drive


What's this 24GB update you speak of? Thanks....


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

Kgking1 said:


> What's this 24GB update you speak of? Thanks....


Recent recall from VW for ECU/TCU reflash. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RCDheliracer (Jan 7, 2012)

Kgking1 said:


> What's this 24GB update you speak of? Thanks....


 zimmie2652 beat me to it but yes, it's a VW service campaign/recall for the ECU and TCU.

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9432985-Service-Campaign-ECU-TCM-Update-9-16-20


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

For the ROW market, we've now extended support for the ROW vehicles both with and without OPF filter. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## asiliat+ (Oct 31, 2000)

Very interested in getting this. Called my local APR rep - really close to me too!

Quick question, are there any 0-60 time? The rep couldn't quote any (understandable). I haven't test driven the standard Tiguan - assume it's pig slow based on numbers and reviews. if I can't get it under 7 after tune, I'll not rejoin the VW fam.

I've searched online - but didn't find anything concrete.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

asiliat+ said:


> Very interested in getting this. Called my local APR rep - really close to me too!
> 
> Quick question, are there any 0-60 time? The rep couldn't quote any (understandable). I haven't test driven the standard Tiguan - assume it's pig slow based on numbers and reviews. if I can't get it under 7 after tune, I'll not rejoin the VW fam.
> 
> I've searched online - but didn't find anything concrete.


The people who have posted about tunes whether it be MTM, APR or Uni here or other websites, Facebook groups etc... have not reported any sub 7 second times. 

The lowest I’ve seen is 7.2-7.3 range. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mattchatr (Jan 26, 2018)

The best I got was 7.3 the other day on winter tires. Yes its slow as stock but what else asiliiat+ would you be looking at? Honestly, even if its slower the ride is better, the quality is better and the drive feel is better even if it is slower. No CVT, no gimmicks, it just feels good to drive. They have worked out the transmission issues so it gets up and goes in the city and the tune even if you want to see 3 tenths of a second faster is still loads faster than other SUVs of its size (remember its a BIG mid sized) with the only 3rd row option now I think. The tune is fantastic (I'm not APR but they are all about the same). I'm super happy with it, and good luck modifying other vehicles if you're into that...the Tig is the same as the Golf R so there are a ton of parts in the bin. I've lowered mine an inch, Golf R exhaust, tuned it, used OBD eleven to tweak it like I want, and have done some other things too. I say find someone in a local forum thats willing to take you for a ride in their tuned Tig, you'll be surprised. If you still want faster, yeah, you'll have to go elsewhere.


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## asiliat+ (Oct 31, 2000)

First I’m actually ok with a minivan. My first requirement is the need to have 7 seats available. 

Kinda pathetic when a 2018 Honda Odyssey does 0-60 in 6.9 sec. I get it’s a different class of vehicles. Having soccer moms pass me cuz I can’t get up to speed like they can kind bruises the ego. 









2018 Honda Odyssey Elite First Test Review - Motor Trend


We drove and tested the redesigned 2018 Honda Odyssey to determine whether it’s a match for the best in the segment. More in the First Test review here.




www.motortrend.com





My 2011 Audi A4 wagon also did it in 6.9sec. 

I like the Tiguan, and I want to love it - but if after tune it’s still slower than my chipped 2001 1.8T GTI and there’s a 20 yr gap between the 2. Ugh


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## Paddie.e.kelly (Jan 4, 2020)

~7sec for a car this size without launch control isn't bad. Especially without sacrificing fuel economy.


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## asiliat+ (Oct 31, 2000)

mattchatr said:


> The best I got was 7.3 the other day on winter tires. Yes its slow as stock but what else asiliiat+ would you be looking at? Honestly, even if its slower the ride is better, the quality is better and the drive feel is better even if it is slower. No CVT, no gimmicks, it just feels good to drive. They have worked out the transmission issues so it gets up and goes in the city and the tune even if you want to see 3 tenths of a second faster is still loads faster than other SUVs of its size (remember its a BIG mid sized) with the only 3rd row option now I think. The tune is fantastic (I'm not APR but they are all about the same). I'm super happy with it, and good luck modifying other vehicles if you're into that...the Tig is the same as the Golf R so there are a ton of parts in the bin. I've lowered mine an inch, Golf R exhaust, tuned it, used OBD eleven to tweak it like I want, and have done some other things too. I say find someone in a local forum thats willing to take you for a ride in their tuned Tig, you'll be surprised. If you still want faster, yeah, you'll have to go elsewhere.


Thanks Appreciate the post. Not big into modding just need more power for when situation dictates. Looking at used 2018 and here in Toronto Canada, low mileage cars are 22-25k cad. A price I can live with.

I have my HEX-NET vag com - so want to stay VW/Audi to continue to use it.


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## asiliat+ (Oct 31, 2000)

Paddie.e.kelly said:


> ~7sec for a car this size without launch control isn't bad. Especially without sacrificing fuel economy.


Honda Odyssey v6 has similar gas usage... 12.6/8.4/10.7 L/100 km I was quite surprised. Leaning towards that but I doubt it’ll fit in my garage.


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## asiliat+ (Oct 31, 2000)

When I first saw this video, I got super excited - 




I assume this is ROW engine, not for us North Americans?


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## ec2k1gt (Feb 24, 2011)

asiliat+ said:


> When I first saw this video, I got super excited -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Based on the MAF setup it appears to be the same engine as the NA Tiguan but mated to a 7 speed DSG. If we could just figure out a way to swap from the Aisin 8 speed to a 7 speed DSG, life would be good.


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

asiliat+ said:


> When I first saw this video, I got super excited -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe that is a totally different engine. Just the regular Gen 3ea888 not the 3b version we get. Based off the 180pk baseline figure in the video title, that roughly translates to about 240hp. Also sounds nothing like the 3b to me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## herkguy (Jan 11, 2006)

My results with just the 87 oct tune








What did you do to your MK2 Tiguan today?


The offsets look a tad high, but I like the look of the meaty sidewalls.




www.vwvortex.com


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## ec2k1gt (Feb 24, 2011)

zimmie2652 said:


> I believe that is a totally different engine. Just the regular Gen 3ea888 not the 3b version we get. Based off the 180pk baseline figure in the video title, that roughly translates to about 240hp. Also sounds nothing like the 3b to me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're right, I'm thinking of the 132 TSI (3b). 




__ https://www.facebook.com/undergroundperformancetuning/posts/2851376268429241


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## mattchatr (Jan 26, 2018)

asiliat+ said:


> First I’m actually ok with a minivan. My first requirement is the need to have 7 seats available.
> 
> Kinda pathetic when a 2018 Honda Odyssey does 0-60 in 6.9 sec. I get it’s a different class of vehicles. Having soccer moms pass me cuz I can’t get up to speed like they can kind bruises the ego.
> 
> ...


I've owned 3 Odyssey's before the Tig and that 3.5 V6 is a good one. Honda's only decently built car to me is the Odyssey these days...they've really gone down hill (I've owned 9 over my lifetime - so yeah, I know Honda's well). That being said, its still a minivan and if you need the 7 seats daily, stay away from the Tig or ANY SUV, period. Minivan is for sure the best family hauler...but my kids are grown up and the 5 seats suit us fine in the Tig and its much much much funner to drive. That being said, I get it. We're absolutely screwed in NA compared to our Euro counterparts especially due to Dieselgate and our now ultra conservative VW market managers. Would love at least the GTI engine and DSG in this car but the tune really does it right. Super happy with the car. vtec kicking in aside in that Odyssey, the Tiguan is funner to drive. You're not going to beet the passing power with a V6 though no matter what, and with a full van load of people to boot. Just watch out for those breaks, I've replaced the rotors on all 3 of the Odysseys because they warp really bad...they are seriously undersized and thats part of my gripe with Honda and others compared to the German cars...they just over engineer things right.


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## asiliat+ (Oct 31, 2000)

mattchatr said:


> I've owned 3 Odyssey's before the Tig and that 3.5 V6 is a good one. Honda's only decently built car to me is the Odyssey these days...they've really gone down hill (I've owned 9 over my lifetime - so yeah, I know Honda's well). That being said, its still a minivan and if you need the 7 seats daily, stay away from the Tig or ANY SUV, period. Minivan is for sure the best family hauler...but my kids are grown up and the 5 seats suit us fine in the Tig and its much much much funner to drive. That being said, I get it. We're absolutely screwed in NA compared to our Euro counterparts especially due to Dieselgate and our now ultra conservative VW market managers. Would love at least the GTI engine and DSG in this car but the tune really does it right. Super happy with the car. vtec kicking in aside in that Odyssey, the Tiguan is funner to drive. You're not going to beet the passing power with a V6 though no matter what, and with a full van load of people to boot. Just watch out for those breaks, I've replaced the rotors on all 3 of the Odysseys because they warp really bad...they are seriously undersized and thats part of my gripe with Honda and others compared to the German cars...they just over engineer things right.


Great insights. I've only owned a Honda S2000. Part of the reason for the Tig is not really needing 7 seats all the time. Maybe once a week, so cramped rears are OK for now. I've never been a large vehicle kind of guy anyway. I do wish I could haul some 4x8' drywall/ply on occasion, and the Odyssey will be the only vehicle I can do that with I think. I think some of the mid 201x Odyssey had bad trannys. Also looking at Sienna awd - but priced at near $30K - I really don't want to spend that $ on a vehicle I won't enjoy.

Was looking at Model X used, but their prices have skyrocketed since the pandemic. can't justify $70K for 300km range.


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## asiliat+ (Oct 31, 2000)

herkguy said:


> My results with just the 87 oct tune
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what grade of fuel do you normally use? I read APR recommends 91 even on the 87 tune?


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## PZ (May 9, 2002)

You should probably look at the Atlas. It seats 7 easily and has the GTI engine, so tuning will get you well under 7. It's already at 7.2 for 0-60. The only issue is that a 2018-19 will be FWD.


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

You have to consider that a stock Tiguan 4motion 0-60 time is in the high 8 to high 9 sec range (MT, C&D). CR tested it over 10 sec. I have the APR+ 87 octane tune and if it’s now low 7 sec, I’m happy. It feels much faster and more responsive. I bought the car for its features, looks and price, not speed. I was cross shopping a CX-9 and was very close to buying that but the poor camera resolution was a deal breaker for my wife.


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## herkguy (Jan 11, 2006)

asiliat+ said:


> what grade of fuel do you normally use? I read APR recommends 91 even on the 87 tune?


 I run 87, same in my 2017 Passat with the same tune. Runs great.


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

asiliat+ said:


> what grade of fuel do you normally use? I read APR recommends 91 even on the 87 tune?


APR+ 87 here running 91 octane because that’s recommended by APR.


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## herkguy (Jan 11, 2006)

Not sure where you saw that, 87 AKI for the US is required, may use higher but never lower as per APR website and fuel guide article. Dont see any mention of 91 AKI recommended for 87 AKI tune Otherwise it would not be an 87 tune, it would be the 91 tune which has more power
91 RON is it’s equivalent in the ROW, is that maybe what you saw?
Around here 91 AKI is .50 more per gallon and since I’m not racing it, I didn’t need the extra hp and cost for fuel.

Did you get other guidance with your APR + warranty paperwork?

From APR
Only use fuel equal to or higher than specified. Never use a lower octane fuel. Always follow our fuel guide, especially with race fuel and Ethanol, where available. Dynos are for reference only. Results will vary. Contributing factors include the vehicle condition, vehicle setup, dyno type, dyno setup, environmental factors, fuel quality, and more. When describing fuels, the North American Region (NAR) uses the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), (RON+MON)/2, or (R+M)/2. The Rest of the World (ROW) uses RON. RON is Research Octane Number and MON is Motor Octane Number.





Fuel Guide - APR







www.goapr.com


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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

herkguy said:


> Not sure where you saw that, 87 AKI for the US is required, may use higher but never lower as per APR website and fuel guide article. Dont see any mention of 91 AKI recommended for 87 AKI tune Otherwise it would not be an 87 tune, it would be the 91 tune which has more power
> 91 RON is it’s equivalent in the ROW, is that maybe what you saw?
> Around here 91 AKI is .50 more per gallon and since I’m not racing it, I didn’t need the extra hp and cost for fuel.
> 
> Did you get other guidance with your APR + warranty paperwork?


I think this is what he is referring to. It says they highly recommended using 91 or 93 for ALL APR PLUS. 

APR Plus performance engine software is designed to work with the minimum gasoline octane rating required by the manufacturer for your vehicle. You can find this information listed on the inside of your fuel filler door. Despite this minimum, APR highly recommends the use of premium fuel (typically 91 or 93 octane depending on your location) for all APR Plus software.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

herkguy said:


> Not sure where you saw that, 87 AKI for the US is required, may use higher but never lower as per APR website and fuel guide article. Dont see any mention of 91 AKI recommended for 87 AKI tune Otherwise it would not be an 87 tune, it would be the 91 tune which has more power
> 91 RON is it’s equivalent in the ROW, is that maybe what you saw?
> Around here 91 AKI is .50 more per gallon and since I’m not racing it, I didn’t need the extra hp and cost for fuel.
> 
> ...


After you purchase APR Plus software, they provide a warranty document that states 91-93 octane is highly recommended.


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## 2019TiguanSELPRLINE (Nov 24, 2019)

dragonpalm said:


> After you purchase APR Plus software, they provide a warranty document that states 91-93 octane is highly recommended.
> 
> View attachment 55352


I posted this 2 hours ago. You really need to look and read before posting a duplicate response. Thx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## herkguy (Jan 11, 2006)

So it is an APR plus thing, strange and again a recommended, not required.
Wonder why they have that for the plus and not the regular tune information. That is not anywhere on the APR website for the regular tune information.
It’s not even in their fuel supplement information...
If you have to run premium, why offer a detuned 87 tune...lol

Maybe we need to get Arin from APR in on this...


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## zimmie2652 (Feb 15, 2015)

herkguy said:


> So it is an APR plus thing, strange and again a recommended, not required.
> Wonder why they have that for the plus and not the regular tune information. That is not anywhere on the APR website for the regular tune information.
> It’s not even in their fuel supplement information...
> If you have to run premium, why offer a detuned 87 tune...lol
> ...


I would think it mainly boils down to the old debate of whether lower octane vs higher octane is better for the vehicle. APR probably feels that the higher octane premium fuel is better for the vehicle. 

I don’t want to put words in APR’s mouth but that would be my initial guess. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

I never understood that...people will pay for the tune and want more (if not the most) power, but won't spend the few extra bucks a tank to run the right octane?
You're just shorting yourself/leaving power on the table by not running the highest octane with a/the higher octane tune.

I'm not saying run 100 all the time, but 91 or 93 is a no brainer with a tuned car.
You can't just get a ton of power by using the same (87) octane...something has to change.
You don't see high performance cars saying use 87 octane now, do you? No...premium only/recommended.

And if they (APR/the tuner) say run it, just run it. Especially since gas is cheap, for now, anyways.

To each their own, of course.


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## herkguy (Jan 11, 2006)

snobrdrdan said:


> I never understood that...people will pay for the tune and want more (if not the most) power, but won't spend the few extra bucks a tank to run the right octane?
> You're just shorting yourself/leaving power on the table by not running the highest octane with a/the higher octane tune.
> 
> I'm not saying run 100 all the time, but 91 or 93 is a no brainer with a tuned car.
> ...


I guess another good question for APR, they don’t have it listed anywhere, nope not anywhere that they recommend higher than 87 for the 87 tune unless you get the paperwork for the APR plus. They say you can run higher and you may see improvements and to never run lower. I run quality fuel from two locations that have high turn over so I know I am getting good fuel. 
It’s a daily driver for me, just looking for passing power and merging occasionally, most of the time it doesn’t see north of 4000 rpm.

The better question you should ask APR is why would they release an 87 tune....


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

snobrdrdan said:


> I never understood that...people will pay for the tune and want more (if not the most) power, but won't spend the few extra bucks a tank to run the right octane?
> You're just shorting yourself/leaving power on the table by not running the highest octane with a/the higher octane tune.
> 
> I'm not saying run 100 all the time, but 91 or 93 is a no brainer with a tuned car.
> ...


I think it’s simple. VW designed the North American Tiguan to run on 87 octane because the majority of buyers don’t want to pay more for gas. When APR tuned it, it makes sense to have a version for 87 octane because users will likely follow VW so it reduces risk of improper fuel being used. I will guess that most people on this forum will gladly use premium if told to do so (me included). The “issue” is there should be more transparency from APR on fuel grade for the APR Plus tune because no where on their website does it state “premium highly recommended”. So you wouldn’t know it until you bought it that you need to pay more for gas as well.


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## Paddie.e.kelly (Jan 4, 2020)

dragonpalm said:


> I think it’s simple. VW designed the North American Tiguan to run on 87 octane because the majority of buyers don’t want to pay more for gas. When APR tuned it, it makes sense to have a version for 87 octane because users will likely follow VW so it reduces risk of improper fuel being used. I will guess that most people on this forum will gladly use premium if told to do so (me included). The “issue” is there should be more transparency from APR on fuel grade for the APR Plus tune because no where on their website does it state “premium highly recommended”. So you wouldn’t know it until you bought it that you need to pay more for gas as well.


This. Also - at least where I live - 93 premium can sometimes run 30-40% more expensive than 87. 91 can even be 20% more. That's not an insignificant increase in fuel costs for a daily driver.


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## CTK (Jan 18, 2018)

asiliat+ said:


> First I’m actually ok with a minivan. My first requirement is the need to have 7 seats available.
> 
> Kinda pathetic when a 2018 Honda Odyssey does 0-60 in 6.9 sec. I get it’s a different class of vehicles. Having soccer moms pass me cuz I can’t get up to speed like they can kind bruises the ego.
> 
> ...


Bench racing is a waste of time. I actually just bought a minivan. Bench racing says it's slow. On the road it's fine, even loaded up with my family and our stuff. 0-60 doesn't tell the whole story. Maybe the Tig is sluggish off the line but is fast once it's rolling. Etc. Only way to know for sure is to close the spreadsheets and drive one.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Paddie.e.kelly said:


> This. Also - at least where I live - 93 premium can sometimes run 30-40% more expensive than 87. 91 can even be 20% more. That's not an insignificant increase in fuel costs for a daily driver.


Agreed. Premium (93) is 0.60 cents a gallon more here in Michigan.
But even so, it's "only" $2.59/gallon or whatever. A far cry from the $4.00+/gallon it was a few years ago.

Mind you, your car/SUV is actually efficient though. I'm putting 93 in my 485hp "pig" of a car, lol

And like I said, gas is cheap at the moment....might as well enjoy it.


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## MavSBM (Feb 27, 2008)

I've tried to research and read this through the threads and site, but @ArinAPR - does the stage 1 tune auto adjust for the gas used? I see tune for 87 91 93 104 E85, etc...is it just one tune like on my b8.5 and it will compensate for octane rating?

I want stage 1 and E85, but flexibility to move back down to 87 or 93 if needed. (no stalk change)


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

You flash the tune for the fuel you want to use.


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