# AccuAir E-Level Touchpad Management System



## SoCalDubber (Jul 21, 2004)

http://www.accuairsuspension.c....html
I would like to get some peoples feedback in terms of their experiences, what options they are running (compressors, line sizes, etc)... 
I was drooling over this setup @ SEMA and it looks like I may be pulling the trigger on the "Stage 2" kit which is dual 400CC compressors...
Obviously I've heard over and over that AccuAir stuff is "the balls" but would like to get some personal experience/stories.
Going on this:


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: AccuAir E-Level Touchpad Management System (SoCalDubber)*

Hahaha....deja vu..
goodluck with the car, been on air once and it was legit! do it again








And i've heard nothing but good about accuair e level


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## SoCalDubber (Jul 21, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Still Fantana* »_deja vu..

The car belongs on bags, plain and simple... Trying to sort everything out and do it right!


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (SoCalDubber)*

I agree 100% i supported them when Ross was putting them on and gave him hell when they came off
g/l w. it i'll be watching! you had a different beetle before correct?


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## SoCalDubber (Jul 21, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Still Fantana* »_g/l w. it i'll be watching! you had a different beetle before correct?

No sir... Have had a few Mk2s, a Mk4 1.8T GLI, and a B7 A4...


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (SoCalDubber)*

I http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif my AccuAir management.


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## SoCalDubber (Jul 21, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *JDriver1.8t* »_I http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif my AccuAir management. 

Which setup are you running?


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (SoCalDubber)*

AccuAir Stage 2 from Mason Tech
I'm running full Mason Tech suspension.
My '3' preset is 4x4 mode
my '2' preset is ride height
my '1' preset is low cruise (30% of turning range)
and full dump puts the side skirts on the ground, and the subframe about 1/8'' or so from the floor. It would lay easily with smaller tires.


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## dorbritz (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: AccuAir E-Level Touchpad Management System (Still Fantana)*



Still Fantana said:


> Hahaha....deja vu..
> goodluck with the car, been on air once and it was legit! do it again
> 
> 
> ...


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## BradenE (Aug 25, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *JDriver1.8t* »_AccuAir Stage 2 from Mason Tech
I'm running full Mason Tech suspension.
My '3' preset is 4x4 mode
my '2' preset is ride height
my '1' preset is low cruise (30% of turning range)
and full dump puts the side skirts on the ground, and the subframe about 1/8'' or so from the floor. It would lay easily with smaller tires.


is this for real how does your bumper not crush the ground before skirts on a MKIV?


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## Nanozic (Sep 11, 2000)

*FV-QR*

I have it, I love it. Would do it again in a heartbeat.


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## whitemk4golf (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Nanozic)*

what about know the air pressures on each corner?
i really want this setup too but that was the only question i had about it


_Modified by whitemk4golf at 8:46 PM 1-5-2010_


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (whitemk4golf)*

Thats the point of this system, is you dont NEED to know the pressure of each bag. 
Granted if you really wanted to know, i'm sure you could tap in either a digi or analog gauge set up


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## SoCalDubber (Jul 21, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Which compressors are you guys running? I'm looking at the setup with 2 400s... How big are your lines?


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (SoCalDubber)*

2 400s is great for speed, 480s are quieterand share around the same speed. plus in an open cabin it might be worth the extra coin for noise...
3/8s or 1/4s line is popular, especially for a bug i'd prolly go 1/4.


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## SoCalDubber (Jul 21, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Still Fantana* »_2 400s is great for speed, 480s are quieterand share around the same speed. plus in an open cabin it might be worth the extra coin for noise...
3/8s or 1/4s line is popular, especially for a bug i'd prolly go 1/4.

From what I understand, dual 480s is begging to burn out the alternator... But again, I'm relatively new to this. Trying to gather facts. 
Thanks for the tip on the 1/4 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (SoCalDubber)*

Hadn't heard that..
i checked the Viair site and the amperage drawn for the 480s are 40amps while the 400s are 51 amp. So i think you might be good there?
not really sure how they'd affect the alternator, so not sure if that even helps? lol


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## .FLY GLI. (Sep 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Still Fantana)*

I have the AccuAir manifold and absolutely love it, at least when I get to drive the car


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## SoCalDubber (Jul 21, 2004)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *.FLY GLI.* »_I have the AccuAir manifold and absolutely love it, at least when I get to drive the car









Just their manifold? Or their whole management?


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## .FLY GLI. (Sep 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (SoCalDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoCalDubber* »_
Just their manifold? Or their whole management?

Just the manifold. running dual 480s, 2 3 gallon tanks, FBI digital gauge, AVS switchbox, 3/8" line up front, and 1/4" rear


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## BklynMKV (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (JDriver1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JDriver1.8t* »_AccuAir Stage 2 from Mason Tech
I'm running full Mason Tech suspension...
...my '1' preset is low cruise (30% of turning range)

pardon my 'noob'ness' here, but what do you mean by '30% of turning range'?
i know that the accuair will auto assign the three presets based on overall travel. is that what you mean


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## mk1jettacoupe (Nov 8, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (BklynMKV)*

I think he means that since it's his cruise setting, he sets it so low that he is only able to steer his wheels 30% of their normal range. Most likely used for freeway cruising where sharp turns are not neccessary.


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## BklynMKV (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (mk1jettacoupe)*

otherwise known as:
'how i took my right fender out at H2O on coils'


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (mk1jettacoupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1jettacoupe* »_I think he means that since it's his cruise setting, he sets it so low that he is only able to steer his wheels 30% of their normal range. Most likely used for freeway cruising where sharp turns are not neccessary.

That is exactly what I mean.


_Quote, originally posted by *BradenE* »_
is this for real how does your bumper not crush the ground before skirts on a MKIV?


I have reiger RS-4 rep skirts, and they sit about 1/4'' lower than my R bumper. They are very, very deep.
Pshop of the car, but that is the ride height. The wheel centers were changed, but that is how they sit. The side skirt is touching the ground, actually being slightly squeezed. The front bumper is 1/4-3/8'' off the ground.










_Modified by JDriver1.8t at 11:50 PM 1-5-2010_


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## bluegolfgti (Oct 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (JDriver1.8t)*

I have the stage 2 setup, dual 400c compressors with touchpad etc, im in the uk (im the only one in the uk with this kit) so running metric 10mm lines so thats not much help to you. I cant recommend this setup enough, its simply amazing! The reason i got it was because i have a daily car and 90% of the time i just want to get in the car and drive normally which this system allows, it does everything for you up until you want to play around or adjust manually. 
Do it and you wont regret it.


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## Supplicium (Jan 26, 2005)

I am also on Stage 2 accuair with touchpad. 2 400 compressors, 2 tanks. 
I have no complaints. The compressors get a lil loud but thats just part of the game. I really like the controller. Remember Accuair sells a wireless controller too! Only thing I wish I had was some type of gauge so I can verify each corners psi level. I know the touchpad will display an error if it isnt but I still would like to see the numbers.


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## whitemk4golf (Dec 12, 2002)

*Re: (Supplicium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Supplicium* »_ Only thing I wish I had was some type of gauge so I can verify each corners psi level. I know the touchpad will display an error if it isnt but I still would like to see the numbers.

what about the ride pro 3 (i belive it called) ?


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (BklynMKV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BklynMKV* »_
pardon my 'noob'ness' here, but what do you mean by '30% of turning range'?
i know that the accuair will auto assign the three presets based on overall travel. is that what you mean









Warren, I think what he is referring to is that when you install and setup the accuair there are three presets on the touch pad. Each preset is a certain percentage of the overall travel/height of the system. The Accuair E-Level system actually fills the bags up to 150psi and then determines how much travel the system should have based on the the initial setup/sensor input.

_Quote, originally posted by *Accuair Operation Manual* »_When calibration is complete the positions will be
saved as follows:
• Position #1=10% of total suspension travel.
• Position #2=50% of total suspension travel.
• Position #3=90% of total suspension travel.


The system can be setup automatically (suggested) or can be setup manually as well. It's a great system and offers many features. The ridepro e3 was released recently and it has gathered some great reviews as well. I don't have much experience with it but both are great systems backed by great companies


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## BklynMKV (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

thanks Andrew
of course, the quote was unnecessary as the owners manual is now my new bedside reading


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Anytime Warren!
I prefer to quote the text rather than put it into my own words








If you need anything else, just give me a shout


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## BklynMKV (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

you have a 'shout'
____well, as loud as an email can 'shout'...










_Modified by BklynMKV at 11:20 PM 1-8-2010_


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (BklynMKV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BklynMKV* »_you have a 'shout'
____well, as loud as an email can 'shout'...










you should have a response at some point today http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EuroGruppe (Aug 10, 2005)

*Re: AccuAir E-Level Touchpad Management System (SoCalDubber)*

Accuair has an amazing product, i love my set up. The only thing that i regret not doing is running some gauges to monitor the pressure in the bags, hopefully in the spring i'll get to it.
Overall, it's a kick as product http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Brian, when you want to run gauges give me a call


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## EuroGruppe (Aug 10, 2005)

Andrew, sent ya a PM.
Cheers


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## Dub*Struck (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: (EuroGruppe)*

I have seen pictures of the sensors set up in mk4s but i am still confused on where to mount them... That is the only thing that is holding me back from getting mine set up. In dont want to mount them to far away so I dont break them. and if you mount them to close the readings wont be right. correct???


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## AccuAir (Jan 12, 2010)

*Re: (Dub*Struck)*

FYI - We have ran the sensors with as little as 1" worth of linear travel (we call for 2.75" in the instructions) and seen no digression of system accuracy. It is always better to be on the safe side with the travel because over extending the sensors is guaranteed to damage them.


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## Dub*Struck (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: (AccuAir)*

Thanks a lot, Thats is a big help That it doesnt have to be just perfect. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (AccuAir)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AccuAir* »_FYI - We have ran the sensors with as little as 1" worth of linear travel (we call for 2.75" in the instructions) and seen no digression of system accuracy. It is always better to be on the safe side with the travel because over extending the sensors is guaranteed to damage them.

What is the max travel allowed?


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## AccuAir (Jan 12, 2010)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*

The sensor will travel about 3.25" from mechanical stop to mechanical stop. So we suggest a *MAX TRAVEL of 2.75"* so that you have about 1/4" of "slack" on each side. This slack will account for extra travel situations which most vehicles will see at some point in their life. What do I mean by that? Well lets say that you air the vehicle all the way down on a really rough surface (maybe a dirt parking lot). One corner may get compressed a little further than ever expected because all of the vehicle weight is on that one bump stop.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (AccuAir)*

hmmm, don't most people have more than 2.75" of travel from being laid out to completely aired up? I've heard some systems have 4" of travel.


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## EuroGruppe (Aug 10, 2005)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DarkSideGTI* »_hmmm, don't most people have more than 2.75" of travel from being laid out to completely aired up? I've heard some systems have 4" of travel.

Certain points of the suspension travel less then the actual height of the fender to ground, or pan, ect.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (EuroGruppe)*

that's true. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EuroGruppe (Aug 10, 2005)

*Re: (DarkSideGTI)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dub*Struck (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: (EuroGruppe)*

I will be running gauges eventually. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I got a hole in one of my lines when I was on the highway. The accuair system tried to correct the fact that my front bag needed air. But it couldnt correct fast enough. I was listening to music so I couldnt hear the compressors go on. I smell burning rubber and I pull over and my front driver side is slammed. I will feel more comfortable with psi gauges. and I got to get another ecu cuz my rear sensors will turn red saying there not reading. and other times they work. but accuair says there gonna over night me a new ecu. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AccuAir (Jan 12, 2010)

*Re: (Dub*Struck)*

That is a bad story!!! Let this be an awakening for everybody installing Air Suspension that you MUST take time to make sure that the air lines and air bags are not contacting anything that could cause them to eventually wear through!!! The reason that Air Bags are used on 99% of today's class 8 trucks and buses is because when it is installed correctly it will be 100% reliable. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Dub*Struck* »_I will be running gauges eventually. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I got a hole in one of my lines when I was on the highway. The accuair system tried to correct the fact that my front bag needed air. But it couldnt correct fast enough. I was listening to music so I couldnt hear the compressors go on. I smell burning rubber and I pull over and my front driver side is slammed. I will feel more comfortable with psi gauges. 

My only question is would you really be staring at your PSI gauges while driving down the road listening to music???







The e-Level should have indicated that error immediately by lighting the arrows red for that corner, which I hope would be more noticeable than a change in reading on a pressure gauge.
Lets get that ECU swapped and see if the rear height sensor errors go away. Good Luck!


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## Dub*Struck (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: (AccuAir)*

It was scary for me lol but I guess you are right. i would not be looking at my gauges while driving all the time. lol the light did start flashing I just didnt pay attention right away. I pulled to the side of the road quickly as I could. and the line was completely my wrong doing. I had the line go over the exhaust heat wrapped and I kept thinking about it saying. I should re rout it blah. and I should have! So my 100% my fault. But I will be calling about the ecu tomorrow. I spoke with 2 people today at accuair about it.







Thank you accuair for the quick feedback. phone and vortex http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## yvrnycracer (Apr 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I loved my accuair system... if I ever did air again I would definitely use that system again! Reno (hoping i am remembering the name correctly) and crew were also very helpful with the installers!! So nothing but praise for these guys and their product! 

That being said I am no longer on air suspension so my system is for sale if anyone is interested!


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## Dub*Struck (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (yvrnycracer)*

So what does it mean if the whole remote flashes than turns off? Is it that the system doesn't have enough power to run?


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## AccuAir (Jan 12, 2010)

*Re: FV-QR (Dub*Struck)*

If all of the white lights flash on the TouchPad for about 5 seconds and then turn OFF it means that your red and orange wires are not connected correctly. This is usually an indication that the main power (red wire) is getting cycled with the ignition switch instead of having constant battery power. It also means that your orange wire is not seeing ignition 12 volts like it should. Double check the voltages on both of these wires with a multi-meter while the ignition is ON and again while the ignition is OFF and let me know what you find.


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## ummagawd (Oct 28, 2008)

quick question... i read that this system auto-adjust even while driving? I wondered if this ever posed a an unwanted affect while cornering? I would just think that if I take a corner hard, the suspension will compress, the ECU will think it needs air and then shoot some into that particular corner/side and make the "feel" seem off or even dangerous?
Can you explain a little more how it affects performance in that regard?


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: (ummagawd)*

I have not had that happen to me. It isn't an instantaneous adjustment, and you have three levels of sensitivity. The factory setting is the middle sensitivity. 
I have had it adjust while sitting at stop lights, but never when accelerating or cornering.


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## AccuAir (Jan 12, 2010)

*Re: (JDriver1.8t)*

The e-Level system won't adjust for a corner like you are suggesting. Let me explain...
The RideMonitor Mode is a pretty advanced piece of technology, but pretty easy to understand; While parked, if it determines that any corner of the vehicle is outside of a given tolerance (high or low) for more than 5 seconds, it will provide a precision correction to get the given corner (or corners) back to the target height. While driving, the vehicle must be out of tolerance for more than 45 seconds before a correction will be made. Extensive algorithms are embedded to avoid unnecessary corrections while driving by detecting transient scenarios like stopping, turning, and accelerating. All of this results in a vehicle that is always within height specification which results in improved ride quality, consistent tire wear, and consistent handling characteristics.
You may ask; "So if it is not adjusting in the middle of the corner, how exactly does it provide better handling?" Simple... Holding consistent Ride Heights provides consistent suspension alignment and consistent spring rates (both key aspects for noticeably improved handling).
You may also ask; "If my car is at a good ride height when I start it, then why does it need to adjust while driving?" Answers:
1.) Your initial adjustment (when you start the car) will be often times take place on an un-level surface (parking lot, driveway, etc). Once you get going on level road, your initial adjustment is not good anymore. RideMonitor Mode corrects for this.
2.) If your initial adjustment is from aired out up to Ride Height (typical parking scenario), all of your suspension bushings will be holding a lot of residual binding. Once you begin driving, this binding "frees up" and the ride height will often change by a decent amount. RideMonitor Mode corrects for this.
3.) Over the course of a drive, fuel consumption will cause a reasonable change in load and weight distribution (6.42 lbs/gallon). RideMonitor Mode corrects for this.
4.) Road undulations cause friction and heat in the Air Spring. Changing the temperature of the air inside the Air Spring causes it to expand which results in a change of Ride Height.RideMonitor Mode corrects for this.
5.) On vehicles with a higher center of gravity and higher wind resistance (usually 4x4's using an Air Suspension Lift Kit) freeway speeds will often change the pitch of the vehicle (front higher / rear lower). Ride Monitor Mode will provide a correction for this 45 seconds after merging on the freeway.
Now you are hopefully thinking; "Wow, that makes sense, but still why don't they try to keep the vehicle level while going around a corner?" It's not an impossibility, but Air Suspension is not a great candidate for real-time "Fully Active Type Suspension" for a few reasons:
1.) Air is a very inconsistent medium to work with. Outside influences like temperature, altitude, and humidity, drastically change it's compressibility and general behavior. A big problem when you are looking for instantaneous predictability.
2.) 98% of today's Air Suspension users have 12-volt electric compressors. An active Air Suspension would consume tremendous amounts of air (we've tried it). So an engine driven compressor would be required, but compressor wear and maintenance would still become a problem.
3.) Controlling vehicle dynamics across a huge variety of vehicle platforms with a universal piece of firmware is very very challenging. Add the fact that a decent amount of our customers want to use existing valves and plumbing components that they they already have, means that accounting for all of these variations would be a nightmare.
For the time being, e-Level with RideMonitor Mode is way ahead of the competition in ease of use, accuracy, reliability, performance. We have a lot of new projects in development, but none of them will be replacing the e-Level anytime soon.


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## RPF1 (Dec 23, 2009)

^^ sounds like a very intelligent system. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fasttt600 (Apr 12, 2007)

*Re: (RPF1)*

I must say Reno is a great guy!!!
I called accuair the other day to see if I could match up the pro e3 with their manifold, and after a lengthy discussion I am going with a full accuair system. I can't wait to get it!!! Maybe its just me, but I love that I can call a company and get transfered to one of the owners and he takes the time to explain everything to me! A-Plus for customer service as well as a great product. Andrew at openroad has been great too. He's the first one who tried to sway me to the accuair stuff, and has been anwsering all my questions!!! 
Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.


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## Dub*Struck (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: (fasttt600)*

As far as customer service from Accuair goes.I also give an A+++ I called accuair telling them I had a possible problem with my ECU. No questions asked. They second day mailed me another ECU. Plugged it in. My system is working 100% and I am loving my Accuair management! I would recommend Accuair anyone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AccuAir (Jan 12, 2010)

*Re: (Dub*Struck)*

We really appreciate the positive feedback guys! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
We supply these products for every market segment out there (hotrods, muscle cars, trucks, utility vehicles, Luxury/VIP, imports, etc). I have to admit that we really enjoy this VW/Audi market because you guys are all very technically savoy and a pleasure to work with. You guys understand what our products are for and you hold very high standards. We enjoy that challenge and are proud to hear that we are living up to your expectations.
In light of all of this, we plan to make it out to some of your shows this year to meet some of you first hand. We are sponsoring the Double Down Air Suspension Section at Wuste 2010! If you guys have any other shows that you would like to see us at, please drop me a PM.
Always available to support,
Reno Heon


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

*Re: (AccuAir)*

Reno, I sent you a PM.
BTW looking forward to seeing you guys at Wuste2010. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: AccuAir E-Level Touchpad Management System (SoCalDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fasttt600* »_I must say Reno is a great guy!!!
I called accuair the other day to see if I could match up the pro e3 with their manifold, and after a lengthy discussion I am going with a full accuair system. I can't wait to get it!!! Maybe its just me, but I love that I can call a company and get transfered to one of the owners and he takes the time to explain everything to me! A-Plus for customer service as well as a great product. Andrew at openroad has been great too. He's the first one who tried to sway me to the accuair stuff, and has been anwsering all my questions!!! 
Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.

Thanks for the good words Brendan. It's been a pleasure working with you and helping you design your system. In regards to Accuair, it's been great working with Reno and Dustin -- they're both very helpful and great with answering questions. Not only are Reno & Dustin great guys, their products are top notch. I cannot say enough good things about their products. I have yet to find a flaw/hiccup with any of their equipment.
We (OPEN ROAD TUNING) are looking forward to working with Accuair in the future







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dub*Struck (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: AccuAir E-Level Touchpad Management System ([email protected])*

I think it would be great for Accuair to make it out to H20i this year. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I think it would be good for them.


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## BklynMKV (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: AccuAir E-Level Touchpad Management System (Dub*Struck)*

i'll fourth or fifth the 'nice words thread' for accuair. dealing with the owner directly is never a bad thing, and they have been nothing but helpful in offering support/answers during our build http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
right andrew? ;-)


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

*FV-QR*

right







<-- scheinder weiss


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## fancyTHIS (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Just on topic of this, I cannot for the life of me figure out how or where to mount these leveling sensors, if someone on here has already done the sensors, could you send me a PM? Ill be calling Accuair in the morning to see if they have any ideas.
But on the topic of this thread, its been awesome dealing with Accuair and Open Road Tuning!


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## NICK3515 (Jun 17, 2009)

*Re: (EuroGruppe)*

Im gonna have to go with Andrew he hooked me up on the caddy great system easy to work the digital controller mounts up real nice to.


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## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: (NICK3515)*

Colin, you have PM








Nick, thanks for the good words. Hope you like how your struts came out! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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