# Why isn't the judging taking serious?? Most be vW savvy



## BigDreams Lilpockets (Mar 3, 2011)

It's a shame most of vehicles in the show are months in the making with a ton of money/time invested to have random judging selected the day of (at least last year) and hoping this year will be different. I heard the judges asking owners questions that any vw enthusiast wound know. It's almost not worth getting your vehicle ready for this show and I sure hope judging will be taken as serious as the vehicles owners take to get them there!!!


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

Everyone always has something to gripe about if they don't win a trophy.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

The judging is pretty terrible. Even the head judge/show organizers agree. My dad had an issue one year and the head guy says its mainly due to the fact they don't have any one willing to do the judging and they get stuck with young kids who come volunteer at the last min and they just push for their friends cars. I see it happen first hand every year. You can be there all day, a car shows up at 1pm in the afternoon as judging is going on and they end up winning, and it is usually by no means a car that should place.

I go for the weekend, see friends, spend money. I park my car and walk away and enjoy myself:beer:


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## BigDreams Lilpockets (Mar 3, 2011)

PSU said:


> Everyone always has something to gripe about if they don't win a trophy.


Agreed but im referring to everyone in general. I even heard one of the judges ask the owner of a vehicle to be judged if it was 4 or 6 cyl?!?!?!?!




P Q said:


> The judging is pretty terrible. Even the head judge/show organizers agree. My dad had an issue one year and the head guy says its mainly due to the fact they don't have any one willing to do the judging and they get stuck with young kids who come volunteer at the last min and they just push for their friends cars. I see it happen first hand every year. You can be there all day, a car shows up at 1pm in the afternoon as judging is going on and they end up winning, and it is usually by no means a car that should place.
> 
> I go for the weekend, see friends, spend money. I park my car and walk away and enjoy myself:beer:


x2. With ALL the money they charge to be there im sure they could even pay (and probably not even much) for qualified ple to give the winning trophy some value :wave:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

SOMETIMES there will be a judge that knows what they are looking at. Guy that usually does my brothers class is usually pretty good


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## NJVWR32 (Aug 15, 2006)

*Judges*

My friend Chris is a judge every year and he really knows his stuff. He rebuilt my engine 2x and basically built my car since I started modding it. He knows how to judge cars. He's an older guy with a British accent.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

if hes that good he needs to be cloned lol


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## NJVWR32 (Aug 15, 2006)

*Judging*



P Q said:


> if hes that good he needs to be cloned lol


He is that good but unfortunately can't be cloned.

Remember guys, it's a point system. Everyone starts with 5 points in each category and your score goes up or down from there. The car with the most points wins in each class.
I've won every trophy there is in the VW scene and I do know one thing. It all starts with a super clean car. Doesn't matter what size your turbo is, how low your car is, or the amount of mods you have.

Most of the guys with a lot of experience are either in a booth or in the show. I do wish that I could be in the show but judge another class. I would do that in a minute. But you can't so sometimes you will get some inexperienced judges. 
Just remember to have fun and enjoy the day, friends and cars.
See you all next week!


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## MKIIIjettadude (Sep 27, 2009)

Never showed my car at WaterFest before. Do you guys think it's worth it or just parking in general parking and enjoying the day is a better idea? Idk how the classes are divided but seeing the same cars win at every show because of the broad classes (grouping gti/golf/R32 together) isn't worth the extra money to compete with.


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## NJVWR32 (Aug 15, 2006)

*Classes*

They only group those cars together in the Supermod class. Otherwise from I know they group all classes with a stock, mod 1 or mod 2.


The last time I was in supermod there were only about 8 cars and that included MK4 golf/GTI/R32. There might have even been a M4 Jetta or 2. I think there is a MK 1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Supermod class. 
Maybe someone involved in the show/judging can clear this up


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

MKIIIjettadude said:


> Never showed my car at WaterFest before. Do you guys think it's worth it or just parking in general parking and enjoying the day is a better idea? Idk how the classes are divided but seeing the same cars win at every show because of the broad classes (grouping gti/golf/R32 together) isn't worth the extra money to compete with.


I would park in show parking just for the better parking. general parking is all the way on the other side of the track. I have gotten to the point I just park my car in the show and walk away, I cant deal with trying to deal with the judges lol


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

NJVWR32 said:


> They only group those cars together in the Supermod class. Otherwise from I know they group all classes with a stock, mod 1 or mod 2.
> 
> 
> The last time I was in supermod there were only about 8 cars and that included MK4 golf/GTI/R32. There might have even been a M4 Jetta or 2. I think there is a MK 1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Supermod class.
> Maybe someone involved in the show/judging can clear this up


Super mod is usually everything together. I know with the audis, no matter what generation it is supermod is one class. Might be the way the vw classes work too


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

The judges that judged my class last year were very good. They knew what to look for, friendly and had knowledge of that generation vw. The only thing that sucked at the event was the wait. We where told to be there at 8am for show cars, but my car didn't get judged until 12:30.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

waiting for a judge is pretty much luck of the draw. There has been a year or two they are coming to judge my car and I basically just got there at 8am and cleaning the car, then there are years they are starting to call trophies and I am still waiting. At the end of the day its a piece of plastic the you can probably go get made for way less then you paid for the show. I don't need someone telling me how good my car is. I go to enjoy the day. Its more enjoyable to just hang out

Its nice when you get a judge that knows what they are doing, seems to be more of them judging the vw, the audis seems to be a different story


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## MKIIIjettadude (Sep 27, 2009)

Are you able to show up the day of and register for the show or is it pre reg only? Also what time do show participants need to be there?


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

PSU said:


> Everyone always has something to gripe about if they don't win a trophy.


Or if they want to complain about their version of "the unworthy"


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

P Q said:


> SOMETIMES there will be a judge that knows what they are looking at. Guy that usually does my brothers class is usually pretty good


What class? (Number or year/make model) (e.g. Class 21 or Mk3 Super Modified)?


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

NJVWR32 said:


> My friend Chris is a judge every year and he really knows his stuff. He rebuilt my engine 2x and basically built my car since I started modding it. He knows how to judge cars. He's an older guy with a British accent.


I know him well. He once brought me a Mk3 alternator so that I could reach the show


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

The class breakdown is pretty much decided by who signs up in advance. If there are about 10 super modified Mk4, they get their own class. If there is one supermodified Mk4, it gets lumped in with another class (no "thanks for showing up" trophies).

Do we know in advance how the sign up will go? Nope.

We learn it the morning of the show, the same as you.

My top 5 tips:

1) Clean it
2) Learn to describe how YOUR car is different from the others in the same class. If you are a 20th, and all the cars are either blue or yellow, tell the judge why your vision is best and why you should win. In under a minute.
3) Stay with your car. We know, we know, it sucks sitting in the sun for hours waiting for us to show up. *Hint* We don't check ID. if you have to step away to pee/etc, have a knowledgeable friend ready to step up and show YOUR car. You would be surprised how many cars would win if we were allowed to judge them (we cannot judge an unattended car) *2nd Hint* We are in the sun, just like you. We know it takes a long time.
4) Have some sort of "display",even if it is a model of your car or a fact sheet. Display is a 5 point category, and no display = zero. You would (again) be surprised how often this comes into play, and how often it makes the difference between 4th place and a trophy.
5) Clean it.

Who am I? Ask around, or ask the other judges. I am the fat old bald white judge, and I have been doing this longer than some of you have been alive.

Special 6th tip, because you read to the end: Come to the briefing on Saturday; it'll help you learn what we are looking for. Complaints? Bring them to me. No question is a bad one, and I will NOT give you a bullsh1t answer. In fact, I would rather you ask me on Sunday than post some generic "the judges sucked again" thread on Monday, especially if you didn't have the juevos to say something at the time.

Seriously, if you lose, and want to know why, come ask me. I'll tell you, in no uncertain terms, why. I can't actually tell you scores etc, but I can tell you why you won/didn't win. I am NOT hard to find on Sunday. 

P.S. We don't do it for the $$. We do it because we love the people and the love they display for their cars.


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

Oh, almost forgot. If you want names, I can get you more than a dozen that have seen me judge for more than 10 years. I care, so much so that I willingly post in these somewhat b1tchy threads and invite people to reply. 

We really want to get it right, every class, every year.


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

MKIIIjettadude said:


> Are you able to show up the day of and register for the show or is it pre reg only? Also what time do show participants need to be there?


Usually pre-reg only(due by july 14th this year); we get there very early and start parking cars at 7:30am. You are supposed to arrive before 9:30 am, so that we can start judging by 10


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## BigDreams Lilpockets (Mar 3, 2011)

DaddyOfPayton said:


> The class breakdown is pretty much decided by who signs up in advance. If there are about 10 super modified Mk4, they get their own class. If there is one supermodified Mk4, it gets lumped in with another class (no "thanks for showing up" trophies).
> 
> Do we know in advance how the sign up will go? Nope.
> 
> ...



I wish all judges had your attitude and passion. Maybe you should cloned as previously stated 👍. Hopefully all classes will have a knowledgeable vag enthusiast..


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

BigDreams Lilpockets said:


> I wish all judges had your attitude and passion. Maybe you should cloned as previously stated 👍. Hopefully all classes will have a knowledgeable vag enthusiast..


This.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

DaddyOfPayton said:


> What class? (Number or year/make model) (e.g. Class 21 or Mk3 Super Modified)?


No idea what class, he has an import Audi S3. I understand everything you are saying and completely agree with you with being prepared and so on and so on. I am not a trophy hunter. I park it and walk away and enjoy my day. I have had too many bad experiences with judging that out way the good ones I have had.

I have had judges come to me talk and have a very intelligent conversation with me extremely interested in what I had to say. other times not so much. For example I have a b5 A4 with an s6 V8 swap. (if someone is judging my car I would assume they have a common knowledge of the B5 audi) If I have to tell the judge its a motor swap and they have a look uo surprise like "really its a swap" that right there tells me they don't really know what they are looking for. 

another example. yes my car might have S4 bumpers but if you know the car the judge should be able to tell its not really ans4. Easy way to tells are the seats and lack of black chrome trim around the windows.

this is the best one

pulled into waterfest last year, you know when you pull up to the guy tell him what car you have and then they tell you where to go park. I pull up to him and before I even say anything he goes "OK Passat right?" I looked at him and go no A4, guess the 4 rings on the grill didn't give that one away


Sorry for the mini rant and I understand there are other judges out there like you that actually care but I see i first hand walking around the show field. Ill stop and listen to them judging other cars, some of the judges have not a clue what they are looking for. You stated explain the car to the judges, that's fine but I have had judges that don't want to here and look oat the car and walk away. They have done it to my car and done it to my dads car..

Like I said I don't go to the show hunting for trophy just stating some things I see that go on from the participants side of things


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## chrism1 (Sep 21, 2014)

I'm registered both days for exhibition but if I come early Sunday can I change it to show?


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## 02BoostedGTI (Oct 12, 2004)

*first timer*

Showing my car for the first time this year, one question. 

Is there room for me to set up a pop up canopy by my car for some shelter from the sun ? it is a 8'x 8' square open on all sides. would love to be able to pop this up behind my car and relax in a folding chair while I wait to be judged, not sure if this is allowed or if there is even room. not sure how close the cars are parked.

Any info would be greatly appreciated :thumbup:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

depends on a few factors. if you car is parked on the outskirts of the parking lot next to a fence there should be room. if there aren't many cars in your class, there should be room. I know water fest they try to leave a parking space between each car depending how many people are in your class. I know I have never had any issues with setting one up but at the same time you wont know 100% till you get there if there is room. there isn't much room directly behind the cars if they are parked ass to ass. Also if other people in the area have tents I see them sometimes all put their tents together and have one big one


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## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

If enthusiasts would stop whining about how bad the judges are, and volunteer to judge, we won't have an issue. That said, I judged back in 2007 and 2008 and would never do it again, because of the massive time investment involved. You don't just judge the cars, you also help organize the show field, so you need to be at the track at the crack of dawn. They do provide you with food and drink and a somewhat fair payment for doing so.


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## 02BoostedGTI (Oct 12, 2004)

P Q said:


> depends on a few factors. if you car is parked on the outskirts of the parking lot next to a fence there should be room. if there aren't many cars in your class, there should be room. I know water fest they try to leave a parking space between each car depending how many people are in your class. I know I have never had any issues with setting one up but at the same time you wont know 100% till you get there if there is room. there isn't much room directly behind the cars if they are parked ass to ass. Also if other people in the area have tents I see them sometimes all put their tents together and have one big one


Thanks for the reply, I am going to take my chances and bring one. Latest forecast says 92 and sunny on Sunday.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

oh im bringing one too. even if its not near my car ill be under it someplace

we lucked out last year, it was amazing not humid not too hot, sunday we are gonna pay for it


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## MKIIIjettadude (Sep 27, 2009)

Just looked on the registration log in page and notice I didn't select a mod for my car. Will this not count for me now?


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

LOL... I complain about people complaining about the judges... and here we are.

My judge was a bit of a joke. Didn't know the first thing about cars to begin with.

As my wheels are tucking and tire against fender/absolutely no space for the wheels to turn, he asks me if it was bagged or on coils.

I then tell him that I am on Air Lift performance bags... and he asks again if the car was on bags or static. :facepalm:


-----

I've been going to car shows since I was in a stroller and have served as a judge at many shows so I know what judges look for...

This guy clearly wasn't looking.

-----

With that being said, I am glad that I was able to buy a few things and have a good cruise up and back with buddies.


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## BigDreams Lilpockets (Mar 3, 2011)

PSU said:


> LOL... I complain about people complaining about the judges... and here we are.
> 
> My judge was a bit of a joke. Didn't know the first thing about cars to begin with.
> 
> ...


Lmao. My point exactly!!! 


DubCreations for all your VW/AUDI needs. Custom made dog bone mount brackets


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

BigDreams Lilpockets said:


> Lmao. My point exactly!!!


Unreal man... :facepalm:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

My judges where good. 

my only complaint really was the heat lol and that on sat they wanted me to drive through the mud and dirt lot for parking and I told security no and kept driving lol


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## chrism1 (Sep 21, 2014)

he he my buddy won 3rd place in the GTI category with a Beetle.....


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## downset4130 (Dec 27, 2006)

the judges in my group were real nice, had an older guy and a younger one. mod1 group 49 :thumbup:


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## catalina2.o (Oct 27, 2008)

in the mk3 supermod class they put a mk4 golf

also judges asked me to open my glove box? that was a first and deducted points for having my documents in there lol
also saw them checking the back side of my wheels for brake dust 

all in all wasnt that bad but i wont be showing my car at waterfest anylonger. id rather do what i gotta do and leave


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

MK4 Supermod (class 41) wasn't judged until well into the show car awards being announced. Same for mod 2 MK4 GTI and mod 2 MK4 R32 which were in the same area... :screwy:

When the guy did finally get to my car, he seemed completely uninterested in anything I had to say about the car, did a quick once-over of the car with everything closed then opened, didn't say a word to me, and moved onto the next car. I understand that he was probably exhausted from the heat all day and wanted to just get the score sheets to the announcers but it was probably the least-interested judge I've encountered in 10 years at WF. I guess he liked the car enough since I got 2nd place, but to wait around ALL day to be judged for 30 seconds was disappointing.


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## downset4130 (Dec 27, 2006)

catalina2.o said:


> in the mk3 supermod class they put a mk4 golf
> 
> also judges asked me to open my glove box? that was a first and deducted points for having my documents in there lol
> also saw them checking the back side of my wheels for brake dust
> ...


i was asked to open mine also, told him if i knew that was being checked i would of cleaned it out. :sly:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

They always do that, they will look in the glove box, open the gas door, in some cases check under the floor mats, run there figures inside the wheel wells and look to see how dirty the wheel barrels are. at the same time not all the judges go as "hard" as others which that in itself gets a mixed reaction.

All that is nothing new and honestly compared to a concourse show this is nothing. yes its not a show with million dollar classics but a show is a show and like it or not that's what they do


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## djstarscr3am (Aug 16, 2012)

P Q said:


> They always do that, they will look in the glove box, open the gas door, in some cases check under the floor mats, run there figures inside the wheel wells and look to see how dirty the wheel barrels are. at the same time not all the judges go as "hard" as others which that in itself gets a mixed reaction.
> 
> All that is nothing new and honestly compared to a concourse show this is nothing. yes its not a show with million dollar classics but a show is a show and like it or not that's what they do


i going to judge next year and im calling in some favors at NASA to use the Hubble telescope for judging. better pepper your angus.


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## NJVWR32 (Aug 15, 2006)

*Judging.*



aar0n. said:


> MK4 Supermod (class 41) wasn't judged until well into the show car awards being announced. Same for mod 2 MK4 GTI and mod 2 MK4 R32 which were in the same area... :screwy:
> 
> When the guy did finally get to my car, he seemed completely uninterested in anything I had to say about the car, did a quick once-over of the car with everything closed then opened, didn't say a word to me, and moved onto the next car. I understand that he was probably exhausted from the heat all day and wanted to just get the score sheets to the announcers but it was probably the least-interested judge I've encountered in 10 years at WF. I guess he liked the car enough since I got 2nd place, but to wait around ALL day to be judged for 30 seconds was disappointing.


Congrats on 2nd place in your class. I'm sure he saw enough to see what you had. Did the Beetle win first? That was little over the top for my taste but very, very nice.

My class R32 mod 2 (48) did not get judged until 3:00. I got there at 8:30. Long hot day. My judge, I think his name was Ramone, was very good and picked the same order that I would after looking at the cars all day. He spent a lot of time on each car. Once he got to my car, he was like a fly caught in a spider web. I made sure that he looked every at inch of the car and knew the history.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

djstarscr3am said:


> i going to judge next year and im calling in some favors at NASA to use the Hubble telescope for judging. better pepper your angus.


I mean, I am not sure if they have a list on the website of what they are looking for, if they don't maybe they should, but end of the day its a car show, they should be checking everything out, trust me I don't agree with everything but it is what it is


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

NJVWR32 said:


> Congrats on 2nd place in your class. I'm sure he saw enough to see what you had. Did the Beetle win first? That was little over the top for my taste but very, very nice.
> 
> My class R32 mod 2 (48) did not get judged until 3:00. I got there at 8:30. Long hot day. My judge, I think his name was Ramone, was very good and picked the same order that I would after looking at the cars all day. He spent a lot of time on each car. Once he got to my car, he was like a fly caught in a spider web. I made sure that he looked every at inch of the car and knew the history.


Good seeing and chatting with you yesterday Pat! I believe the black Beetle took first and the pickup 3rd. 

Your judge seemed much more thorough than the guy we got (at around the same time too). Mine didn't really give me a chance to even talk about the car but it is what it is of course


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

aar0n. said:


> Good seeing and chatting with you yesterday Pat! I believe the black Beetle took first and the pickup 3rd.
> 
> Your judge seemed much more thorough than the guy we got (at around the same time too). Mine didn't really give me a chance to even talk about the car but it is what it is of course


Aaron congrats car looked very sweet, love the color. Honestly my car (black beetle) was nowhere near ready for this show but I decided last minute the hell with it and just show.

When they announced they are going to be doing awards in 5 minutes (around 3) I thought I wasn't even going to get judged because I waited all day, kind of ridiculous but you have to think what those judges had to put up with on a day like yesterday. I almost passed out and I was under a tent most of the day. I also thought that class 41 was 3 different classes. Some were mod 2's some were S and my car was SM, a little confusing but im just glad to make it there and home in one piece in that heat :facepalm:


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

My judges seemed very cool. I felt a little rushed. I did wait a long time to get judged. I explained everything about the car starting from the back and worked my way around. Had the gas cap open, not sure if the second judge looked at that. Also, noticed them checking out the glove compartment, so I cleaned that out lol, not sure if second judge looked at that either. They asked me to pull down my rear seats and rear arm rest though. All in all, it was pretty good, and I placed first in class 26


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

P Q said:


> They always do that, they will look in the glove box, open the gas door, in some cases check under the floor mats, run there figures inside the wheel wells and look to see how dirty the wheel barrels are. at the same time not all the judges go as "hard" as others which that in itself gets a mixed reaction.
> 
> All that is nothing new and honestly compared to a concourse show this is nothing. yes its not a show with million dollar classics but a show is a show and like it or not that's what they do


If only this were the case in my class. 

My glove box was open, gas door open, everything open. 

Been going to car shows since I was in a stroller so I know what judges look for. Only thing that should have hurt me was that I did not feel like bringing my display piece so I lost 5 points there.


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## CrAZY_EuRo (Mar 5, 2009)

so this was my last waterfest, every year i get crap judges that doesn't know **** about cars 
this year my judge asked me to explain what i have done as i was explaining what i had he cut me off saying thanks i don't need anything else
then asked to open my glove box and ash tray even tho i don't have a ash tray because my air gauges are there he then asked if my car was bagged or coils even tho my car was laying on the ground and there was a big air tank in the back he checked my wheels for dust, i explain how my motor was rebuilt and he turned to his assistant saying he didn't believe it even tho i had a display showing the process my car went thru :banghead:

when trophies came the car next to me witch was a stock car and had ebay wheels took home first and a car that was more modded than the car who took home first got 3rd 

i don't get it, i'm waiting for waterfest to put up the winners and points on there site 

waterfest is a joke next year im going to try and be a judge so people that actually deserve awards for there hard work get judged correctly 

and was it me or was the show more dead then and past years


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## NJVWR32 (Aug 15, 2006)

*Points*

There was a site to see what the criteria was. Right on the Waterfest site. This is what I always follow at every show.

www.Waterfest.net

Click: Event Registration
Click: Register
Click: Show car
Click: More Info
Click: Show car criteria

There are 100 points to get if you are perfect in every category. If 2 cars got the same score then I guess they would have to decide.

This is the way most car shows judge cars. I mean, you just can't look at 10 cars all together and say, I like that one the best. It has to be this way.

Also, about the bagged thing. Sometimes someone on coils can get pretty low. Enough to not be able to tell what height the car is set at or if the bags are all the way down.

But the funny thing is I got asked the same thing and I can stick 2 fingers between the wheel wheel and tire. Well, at least 1. HaHa!


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## lisek99 (Nov 22, 2009)

I just wish they would post 1st 2nd and 3rd place scores in each category so people actually know what score they got.

I think maybe if people actually KNEW what they scored in each category this way they would know what to fix/improve for next time.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

lisek99 said:


> I just wish they would post 1st 2nd and 3rd place scores in each category so people actually know what score they got.
> 
> I think maybe if people actually KNEW what they scored in each category this way they would know what to fix/improve for next time.


They will post that. Give it time.


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## lisek99 (Nov 22, 2009)

PSU said:


> They will post that. Give it time.


Really? Where? I would love to see scores from last year if that's still possible.


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## MKIIIjettadude (Sep 27, 2009)

Yes the judges did have a hell of a day on sunday to be out there all day long judging. I think we all can agree on that. Yes judges didn't know every specific option for the cars they judged. If a judge gets classes Mk5 R32 Mk4 jetta Mk gti and Audi, they're not going to know every specific detail that comes with each car. You will only get that with professional judges who know VW/Audi cars or techs from APR, Unitronic, REVO, USP, NGP, Orchid Eruo or even techs from VW. This year, they were short on judges. If more people judged then it would have went faster. It pissed me off to watch a Mk4 kid yell at the old judge wearing the red shirt when he was going around telling everyone the awards would start in 5 min. The judge explained that they were short on judges and the kid still kept it up. I just happened to be standing there at the time.


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## ChrisL1 (Sep 23, 2004)

The "old judge wearing the red shirt" was Peter Bohrmann, the former owner of Rapid Parts and the person who started Waterfest. He now helps his son Dan run the event.


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## 02BoostedGTI (Oct 12, 2004)

lisek99 said:


> Really? Where? I would love to see scores from last year if that's still possible.


Just go to Waterfest.net. it will take them a bit to get this year's results listed but they will get them up. Click on "archives". They go as far back as WF 9 last time I checked.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

I think this year might be my last, I must be getting older im not sure, its not worth sitting in the heat all day, sat I walked around a little. There really is nothing to buy unless you want a t shirt or stickers and sunday I spent all day under the tent since I had no motivation to walk around in the sun. My buddies are telling me what cars beat them in their classes and I shake my head at some.

And yes the judges do have it rough, they said this year half the guys that volunteered didn't even show up so that does suck


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

lisek99 said:


> Really? Where? I would love to see scores from last year if that's still possible.


Go to the site and click archives. 

This years results will take a while to show up though.


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

My judges this year didn't know the cars at all. One judge was talking to me while the other was doing all the looking at the car. He missed more then half my mods, when I tried to speak to him, he told me it was too late and they needed to move on.
My class was also all messed up. Last year I was mod 2 and this year I was mod 1. 

I drive 9 hours to the show to see old friends and make new friends. Winning a trophy or not didn't bother me. I had a blast again this year.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

I also go to see friends and check out booths, but a little recognition for your time, effort and money isn't a bad thing either.


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

PSU said:


> I also go to see friends and check out booths, but a little recognition for your time, effort and money isn't a bad thing either.


I agree, but I'm just not going to get butthurt after not placing. The car that won my class was the car that placed 2nd to me last year and we are friends. I'm happy he won and no hurt feelings between us. Some people just take it too far. I understand that there is lots of time and money into these cars. Some people like myself also spend a good chunk of change just to get to the show.
I was more upset about hearing certain things about the golden tickets more then not placing on the show day.


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

stevevr6 said:


> I was more upset about hearing certain things about the golden tickets more then not placing on the show day.


Do tell for those of us who didn't hear anything haha


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

I am also interested in hearing this. I know it was mentioned to me and my group that we only reason we got in was cus of who we knew. (not sure how true that was but it still stands out in my head) While on one hand that's nice, but on the other I don't need a hand out. I rather be picked for the "Wanka" ticket because its deserved then given one because someone tells them to give me one.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

Also to me the afterfest this year didn't seem as "exclusive" as it did last year. last year you could look and tell right away what cars where the top 100 area, this year just looked like 1 big parking lot with anyone parking anywhere they wanted


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## lisek99 (Nov 22, 2009)

PSU said:


> Go to the site and click archives.
> 
> This years results will take a while to show up though.


I still can't find it. Can you post a link to it or point me in a right direction?


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## 02BoostedGTI (Oct 12, 2004)

This is a link to last year's event. Click the big box that says " Results click here" look for a menu button. Top right corner and select "archives"

http://www.waterfest.net/wf20Arc/


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## lisek99 (Nov 22, 2009)

02BoostedGTI said:


> This is a link to last year's event. Click the big box that says " Results click here" look for a menu button. Top right corner and select "archives"
> 
> http://www.waterfest.net/wf20Arc/


Got it thanks man :thumbup:


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## NJVWR32 (Aug 15, 2006)

*Judges*

I think a great idea would for people that won 1st place in their category is to not show next year but volunteer to judge and then we know that these people know what a car should look like at a show. What the hell, they won over the other cars in their class. So they know the criteria for judging. 
Anyone want to follow my lead?


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

P Q said:


> I am also interested in hearing this. I know it was mentioned to me and my group that we only reason we got in was cus of who we knew. (not sure how true that was but it still stands out in my head) While on one hand that's nice, but on the other I don't need a hand out. I rather be picked for the "Wanka" ticket because its deserved then given one because someone tells them to give me one.


That's basically it. I over heard one guy saying he got a golden ticket and his car wasn't even there. Seems like it's who you know or how Insta famous you are.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

NJVWR32 said:


> I think a great idea would for people that won 1st place in their category is to not show next year but volunteer to judge and then we know that these people know what a car should look like at a show. What the hell, they won over the other cars in their class. So they know the criteria for judging.
> Anyone want to follow my lead?


While in theory that sounds like a good idea... I don't know. 

What about the people who won that shouldn't have won?


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

stevevr6 said:


> That's basically it. I over heard one guy saying he got a golden ticket and his car wasn't even there. Seems like it's who you know or how Insta famous you are.


That's all it's about anymore. Who you know and how many followers you have.


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

^^ what class were u in, and I would love to see pics of the winners in ur class.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

arismkv said:


> ^^ what class were u in, and I would love to see pics of the winners in ur class.


Class 61. Mod 1 R32.

My car (after it was judged. Closed everything up)



And these are two of the three winners:


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

Before the judging.

I keep the car clean all the time. You could eat off the barrels of the wheels...

I have tons of small stuff you'd never notice if you didn't know what you were looking for... OEM rear quarter window sun shades, OEM six speed shift boot, OEM brushed tip gas/hatch pop levers from China, etc.


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## MonSoonHell (Oct 8, 2013)

I have to agree with those that will not be showing their vehicle next year and joining them. It appears that this year's judging went soley on being clean, as opposed to mods, at least in my class (Class 64 - M1. I appreciate the judge that spoke up on page 1 about tips 1 and 5, which was "clean it". However, let's look at this comparison. First, I do not know the guy that won first. I can tell you that when we were in line to collect our trophy, he stated to me that he doesn't know how he beat my car. I congratulated him and said take the trophy and run. I stated that, because he seemed sincere about his statement, so in the event the judges screwed up the pecking order, take it and run. 

Here is my car on Sunday..





I have loads of mods on MonSoonHell...adding three to this year's show (ACCUAIR Premier System, AMS Alpha Supercharger Intercooler and 034 Motorsports Suspension components). This is in addition to those mods in my signature. I have been to Waterfest in the last four years. The first year I was stock, so not expecting to take a trophy (and didn't). Added some mods the second year and took Third. Added more mods and took second last year. I added the three mods (above) this year for the show. Paid for a detail job on Friday...which turned out to be a waste (exterior wise) as the rain took care of that Saturday morning. It rained so much that the dirt and mud began to run onto the roads from the hotel to Waterfest. However, Saturday night, went to one of those self service car washes and took extra time to power wash my rims, especially the barrels. 

Now looking at my rims, I can tell you they are a pain in the ass to clean. 3-piece Niche Wheels and not a mark on them. I am one in a handful (if that) in the country that have 19x10s with 275s all around, so for those that know B8 S4s, there is fender work to make these fit without rubbing. The max most people have gone in width of rims is 9 or 9.5. I can go on and on with my mods. I daily drive my car, hand wash weekly, never raced her. I would like to add that MonSoonHell is in two internet catalogs for Niche Wheels and MHT Wheels. If you look up Niche Wheels - Citrine edition, you will see my rims and my vehicle.

Here are more photos of MonSoonHell..found on VWvortex's Waterfest Album. MonSoonHell is posted twice....





Now here is the first place winner on Sunday.... I just want to point out what I believe is a discrepancy in judging... 



I saw an exhaust, rims, lowered (springs or coilovers) even possibly bagged just not lowered all the way, possible tune and intake. I did not see his vehicle, however, hanging out with a crew of about 30 people strong, they couldn't believe it either, especially when he drove by our location when he was leaving. 

Did he have more than me...my opinion, no...especially to make a statement like that to me when retrieving our trophies. I am not saying my vehicle is the best vehicle out there, but MonSoonHell is different than other S4s. How many others have four sets of rims for a daily driver? I have a fully loaded (prestige edition) vehicle. I have modded just about every aspect of my vehicle. My vehicle was good enough for second place last year, minus the three mods I installed this year. Perhaps, if I installed 4 mods. 

If the person who won first place is on this forum, please respond and tell me your mods. I congratulated you in line and I still congratulate you for winning first place. I am just interested in the differences of our vehicles.


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

All I got to say is, the guys in my class (ones that I talked with) congratulated me, and said they knew I would win first. So this judging mishap, didn't happen in class 26


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

PSU said:


> Class 61. Mod 1 R32.


This car should not have won first place. I know the other cars that where in that class and I can not believe this took first. PVW feature car got third to this


As far as people who won first not showing the following year and judging, I do not agree with that, If that was that case, they would expect my car to have some dumb paint job or stupid vinyl on it to win a trophy. Waterfest seems to be all about flashy over quality


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## 02BoostedGTI (Oct 12, 2004)

P Q said:


> This car should not have won first place. I know the other cars that where in that class and I can not believe this took first. PVW feature car got third to this
> 
> 
> As far as people who won first not showing the following year and judging, I do not agree with that, If that was that case, they would expect my car to have some dumb paint job or stupid vinyl on it to win a trophy. Waterfest seems to be all about flashy over quality


I don't agree with that last part. Seems like a sweeping generalization. I don't have flashy paint or vinyl and I won first in my class. I think it has a lot to do with the knowledge base of the judges. I have heard some pretty sad tales of some of the judges. My two judges only spent about 3-4 minutes looking at my car and talking with me and weren't very thorough. Didn't open glove box or gas filler door. 

If there was a way for all of the judges to have an equal knowledge base it would be a more level playing ground, I just don't see how that is possible. It's such a subjective job. Two sets of judges could look at the same 10 cars and pick different winners. Unfortunately seems more like a lottery where you are hoping for good judges.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

P Q said:


> This car should not have won first place. I know the other cars that where in that class and I can not believe this took first. PVW feature car got third to this
> 
> 
> As far as people who won first not showing the following year and judging, I do not agree with that, If that was that case, they would expect my car to have some dumb paint job or stupid vinyl on it to win a trophy. Waterfest seems to be all about flashy over quality


What car is that?

Fender flares with RPF1s?


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

PSU said:


> What car is that?
> 
> Fender flares with RPF1s?


Robbie with the shaved bay and Carlines. Paul, I think he was mod 2 though


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

nope Robbie said he was mod 1 and dark night got 2nd and that white r got first in his class


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

When I received my credentials I realized I was in the wrong class. I picked up the phone and spoke to Dan personally, told him the situation and they said they would fix it. I receive an email from Waterfest stating that my credentials have been updated. I go check them again and I'm still in mod 1. I call Dan again and tell him it's still not right. Dan was shocked that I wanted to move up a class from Mod 1 to mod 2. He tells me that people call him all the time to go down a class. I just wanted to be fair to everyone that was in my class. The registration system needs to be fixed, apparently if you go from a 4cyl to 6cyl swap you go into mod 2 automatically, so what about a vr6 to R32 swap? There isn't anything there in the registration for that, and I even stated that in the special comments of the registration. And then the class also has 3 boosted cars in the class as well.

FFS the white and pink mk4 golf with lambo doors won the mk3 super mod

This is my car, which didn't place this year but won 1st last year. The judges missed so much with my car. There are many euro parts on the car inside and out. I was the only one with an R swap, I have a Eurospec speed sport 6 speed close ratio transmission, Willwood 4 piston calipers etc.... The swap is so clean that my mk3 cluster is still in the car working properly with MFA.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

02BoostedGTI said:


> I don't agree with that last part. Seems like a sweeping generalization. I don't have flashy paint or vinyl and I won first in my class. I think it has a lot to do with the knowledge base of the judges. I have heard some pretty sad tales of some of the judges. My two judges only spent about 3-4 minutes looking at my car and talking with me and weren't very thorough. Didn't open glove box or gas filler door.



if you saw the fighter plane, I mean TT, that one first place in my class compared to my car (3rd) and my buddies rs4 b5 (2nd) you would see where my "flashness" comments comes in. yes the paint/air brushing was impressive but it ended there. 

Im not "butt hurt" because I got 3rd, honestly I could careless and I made sure I told the judges that. I told them im not trophy hunting, but when I see cars take top spots that are questionable that gets to me


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

stevevr6 said:


> The swap is so clean that my mk3 cluster is still in the car working properly with MFA.


LOVED your car man. I get exactly where your coming from that things are done so well that its over looked. half the time most people don't even know my car is a swapped v8, they think its stock.

Guess our attention to detail is too much for some people lol


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

I don't even wanna say how many dirty cars I saw in the show field? Cars with no display? Its little things that matter.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

The whole display thing is a little silly to me. All I did was have my lugauge from the weekend that just happens to be color matched to my car layed out in my trunk as my display. I showed it when the judges came but other then that it was unseen. A car should speak for itself, shouldn't have to have a display to help gain points. What does a giant canoe strapped to a roof have to do with a car or covering the front of the car with past trophies. I want to see the car not what things it won in the past. That's just me though


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

P Q said:


> LOVED your car man. I get exactly where your coming from that things are done so well that its over looked. half the time most people don't even know my car is a swapped v8, they think its stock.
> 
> Guess our attention to detail is too much for some people lol


Thanks for the compliment. I go to these events now and it seems that bags and wheels win events. 
There was a car that you can tell the airbag had deployed, I guess the double sided tape from the back wasn't holding up in that heat. That car still got a golden ticket :facepalm:


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

aar0n. said:


> Robbie with the shaved bay and Carlines. Paul, I think he was mod 2 though


Very nice car but it wasn't in Mod 1.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

P Q said:


> nope Robbie said he was mod 1 and dark night got 2nd and that white r got first in his class


Neither of those were in my class. Well they weren't parked next to me at least.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

its deff not what it used to be. I remember going to shows and almost ever car looked like it had a lot of effort, time and thought put into it with what was done. Now everything is cookie cutter and the same as the car next to it. VERY few cars at the show that I actually went up and looked at what was done, your car and a few other mk3's and some of the other audis. other then that it was all the same to me.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

PSU said:


> Neither of those were in my class. Well they weren't parked next to me at least.


something is messed up then I just spoke to Robbie he said mod one and he event sent greg and I a pick of that white r saying it beet him


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

Im not saying I agree with the display thing either, but this show requires it and its like 5 points or so. If you check out the judging criteria it requires it. That could be the diciding factor against the cars in the class.
Also car being clean is another big thing with this show. Ive been going to waterfest for 15 years and I myself am tired of cleaning the hell out of the car. I think they should stop the trophy thing and everyone just hang out and have a good time


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

well yeah that's the only reason I did the thing with my bags, was because I had to lol. other thing is with dirty cars it could be people just parked and walked away who knows.

Honestly Im really not trying to bash other peoples cars cus there was a time people bashed mine when I was new at this. to each their own but sometimes I just have to shake my head:banghead:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

FastAndFurious said:


> I think they should stop the trophy thing and everyone just hang out and have a good time


All for that and have it at night lol


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## downset4130 (Dec 27, 2006)

P Q said:


> This car should not have won first place. I know the other cars that where in that class and I can not believe this took first. PVW feature car got third to this
> 
> 
> As far as people who won first not showing the following year and judging, I do not agree with that, If that was that case, they would expect my car to have some dumb paint job or stupid vinyl on it to win a trophy. Waterfest seems to be all about flashy over quality


my cars not flashy and i did good in the show.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

I mean congrats, this plastic thin in my trunk is probably going to going to the trash can when I decided to take it out lol


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

P Q said:


> something is messed up then I just spoke to Robbie he said mod one and he event sent greg and I a pick of that white r saying it beet him


Was he class 61? He definitely wasn't parked with 61. 

From here on out, I think I am going to put a big DO NOT JUDGE sign on my car.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

he just told me M1 group 4 I don't know. I mean it doesn't really matter lol


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

P Q said:


> he just told me M1 group 4 I don't know. I mean it doesn't really matter lol


Group 4 is Supermod A5/A6 Golf,GTI,R32,Rabbit,Jetta ALL so he was in Supermod, not Mod 1


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't know how that white mk4 got first unless that car wasn't even in his class


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

P Q said:


> nope Robbie said he was mod 1 and dark night got 2nd and that white r got first in his class


U got it all wrong my friend. The white mkv with the shaved bay, and darknight were in supermod, along with the black mkv gli. The gli got first, darknight second, the white Mkv got third. 

Pq can we see pics of ur car? 

As others said, there is a list waterfest posted online of what they expect. I followed that list and the advice of the judges that commented on here. That helped me place 1st. It's a point system, you got to know how to play the game.


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

arismkv said:


> U got it all wrong my friend. The white mkv with the shaved bay, and darknight were in supermod, along with the black mkv gli. The gli got first, darknight second, the white Mkv got third.
> 
> Pq can we see pics of ur car?
> 
> As others said, there is a list waterfest posted online of what they expect. I followed that list and the advice of the judges that commented on here. That helped me place 1st. It's a point system, you got to know how to play the game.


Paul isn't complaining bc he didn't win a trophy. The overall discussion here is over the fact that judging is very inconsistent class-to-class dependent on who is judging, with some judges knowing the cars they're looking at and correctly assessing them and other judges who basically just went through the motions without actually following the list. For example, in my class (MK4 supermod, which I got 2nd in), the judge didn't look very carefully at anything and only did a cursory quick look-over at each car, but in others, judges were opening gas caps, checking wheel barrel cleanliness, etc.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

arismkv said:


> Pq can we see pics of ur car?
> 
> .


if you were expecting a **** box then im sorry to disappoint, but I know what I am talking about, this isnt my first rodeo.


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

The judge for the mk6 jetta class showed up and told the owners...... Open all doors, hood, trunk and glove box. He mentioned to us he would do 1 year glove box another year gas cap. He has been judging at Waterfest since WF3.
He took a quick look at my car after I expressed some concern with the judging. He said he would get someone else or himself to re-judge the car if I wanted to, I told him it wouldn't be necessary as he had been in the sun all day and still needed to judge another class.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

arismkv said:


> U got it all wrong my friend. The white mkv with the shaved bay, and darknight were in supermod, along with the black mkv gli. The gli got first, darknight second, the white Mkv got third.
> 
> .


And I was aware I was wrong because if you continue to read further down the page it was discussed That I admitted I might have been wrong with the earlier assumption. Don't take this as me talk **** about your car or about how clean or not clean it is because that is not what I am doing. The topic at hand here is like Aaron said, judging was not consistent at all


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

P Q said:


> if you were expecting a **** box then im sorry to disappoint, but I know what I am talking about, this isnt my first rodeo.


Not the case at all dude. I just like seeing pics, and what cars showed. Didn't get to see many because of waiting forever to be judged, I was too tired and left after the trophy giveaway. Which is why I'll never show again. 

I asked PSU the same question, he obviously wasn't offended by it, because I didn't mean it in any offending way. Posted the competition and his, and in all honesty, his looks much better from what I can see in the pics.


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

Agree to disagree but agree that the judging was inconsistent :laugh:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

Its all good man, most of the time people ask me for a pic of my car its because they assume I have no idea what I am talking, so sorry for getting on the defensive side , my bad. I just get a lot of people who think they know what they are talking about with my car and when I tell them what the deal is they usually end up :sly: cus it just hit them light a freight train lol 

there are a lot of cars in multiple classes I and a few other people would have placed better then they did but that wasn't the outcome, nothing we can do at this point


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

From all the stories I have heard, the mk3 classes take the cake for the most ****ed up.


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

stevevr6 said:


> From all the stories I have heard, the mk3 classes take the cake for the most ****ed up.


They threw a MK4 into the MK3 class, I think it's safe to say it was most definitely the most screwed up one :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

we pretty much relive the same stories every year with judging and we are all always seem surprised lol. I guess it shows we all have hope for better things to come but we all get disappointed lmao:laugh::laugh:


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

A lot of times based on how they classify your car (another point system from my understanding) depends on where your put and they end up grouping up cars in a class because there's lack of same level cars showing up.

This has happened to me for the last almost 10 years. I'm never placed In a beetle class anymore.


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## aar0n. (May 7, 2004)

FastAndFurious said:


> A lot of times based on how they classify your car (another point system from my understanding) depends on where your put and they end up grouping up cars in a class because there's lack of same level cars showing up.
> 
> This has happened to me for the last almost 10 years. I'm never placed In a beetle class anymore.


Technically you were this year haha. Class 41 is Supermodified Golf/Jetta 4, R32 & New Beetle :laugh:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't agree with that either. if your car is at a certain level and its you and one other guy (if that) you shouldn't be placed into a more competitive class, because then its not fair for you or put in a less completive class because then its not fair for the guys in the lesser class .


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

the audi classes I think are by far the first as far as grouping goes. Mod one youll have everything from a a4 to an r8. might as well put all mk1 up to mk7 vw all in the same class too

if you they want to group the super mod classes together, example all audis, all vw that I think I am ok with. for one that's what happened with the audis this year and two if you are supper mod then that means you are best of the best so you should be put with everyone. but as far as mod 1 mod 2 go you split those classes up by generation and make. if you happen to be the only b6 s4 cabbrio then so be it, you should be grouped with b5 a4, a6 B6 B7 A8 R8 so on and so on


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

aar0n. said:


> Technically you were this year haha. Class 41 is Supermodified Golf/Jetta 4, R32 & New Beetle :laugh:


Yes at least they are all built on same chasis, a few years ago I was next to a b3 Passat and and one year mk3 jetta go explain that one. Still ended up winning but I don't think it makes sense.


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## AlyssaC (Oct 8, 2005)

No matter how you look at it, every participant wants and a lot expect to win at these shows. The former, is exactly what a show participant should strive for...to win. The latter...no one should expect to place. I was one of the judges at the show this year, (2nd year running) and it's not my first go-round with judging. I've been doing it for many years now at numerous shows. It's the same kind of complaining at every single show. Waterfest and H2Oi get the most complaints about judging. And why is that? Because they're two of the largest and most popular water cooled VW & Audi shows in the country. 

This year, so many people didn't clean their cars. There was a ton of dirt all along the seat tracks in majority of the cars I judged. The engine bays weren't clean or prepped. Loose and exposed wires from LED lighting or stereo equipment. Seat backings falling off. Center consoles filled with trash. Trunks not cleaned out. Wooden floors with ill-fitment. Sagging headliners. Stains on carpets and seats. Air tanks with handprints all over the polished finish. One participant even had a small Tupperware container of weed chilling on top of their closed cupholder. (Seriously.) That car, had a lot of smoke odor to it as well. Some people declined to open their hood for us to look at the engine bay because they hadn't even cleaned it. I told them "If you don't open it, it's 0 points out of 15 in the mechanical category because I can't judge what I can't see. Even if it's dirty, 1 point is better than 0." 

The point system is really simple. You have the following criteria:
Exterior-out of 15 points
Suspension-out of 15 points
Interior-out of 15 points
Cleanliness-out of 15 points
Display-5 points
Mechanical-out of 15 points
Concept/Integrity-out of 20 points. 

I think I'm missing a category, but you get the hint. The points system starts out with 5 being your stock vehicle rolling off of the factory line. Pristine, mechanically sound and ready to go. You gain and lose points from that starting point. So, if your car has a new valve cover, you gain a point or two for it. But, if that valve cover was painted and there are waves in the paint or its peeling up in parts, you may have gained that one point, but you lost it because it doesn't look good. Basically, you think of it in terms of "IF the manufacturer were to make this part for this car...is this how they would have done it and sold it?" So, back to my previous "exposed wires" comment earlier. If the manufacturer would have put a subwoofer in the trunk of the car, would they have left the wire to the amplifier exposed, even if it's running along the crease of the carpet in the trunk neatly? No. They would have hidden that wire under the carpeting and/or fabricated something to hide it. 

So, remember, it's not about how many modifications you have. It's how well they're executed. And clean your cars! If it's visible...CLEAN it! If you can see corrosion on your battery terminals, CLEAN it! If there is a scuff mark on the kickplate, get it removed! If your armrest cloth is loosening, fix it or pin it and hide the pin from visibility. If your floor mats are dirty and you have no vacuum, take your floor mats out! 

Judging is certainly not an easy feat. This year was incredibly intense due to the extreme heat and 14 confirmed judges not showing up for their duties. That left 12 of us to judge 450 cars. If more people would step up and register to judge, it would go much more smoothly and efficiently. Threads like these and negative responses to everything with judging deters people away from wanting to judge at shows. People consistently say they're going to step up and judge next year and I have yet to see that happen with anyone that has stated they're going to do it. 

I have no problems answering anyone's questions regarding judging, but I'm not going to respond to any complaining. I'm too old for that. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

P Q said:


> we pretty much relive the same stories every year with judging and we are all always seem surprised lol. I guess it shows we all have hope for better things to come but we all get disappointed lmao:laugh::laugh:


Look up my thread from last year around this time....lol. The judges knew the cars and knew what to look for, I barely had to tell them anything as they where very knowledgeable with the cars in the class.
The mk3 group was a mis-mas of crap. I was mod 1 with an R swap, and the cabrio next to me was Mod 2 with a regular vr swap. The gti vr6 across from me was in the 2.0L class. 
The groups might also get all messed up because people lie on the registration so they can be in a lower class, so they have a better chance at taking home the hardware.

Like I mentioned before, I even called Dan who organizes the event and told him I wanted to move up a class because my car is more then Mod 1, but it fell on deaf ears. I wanted to level "the playing field" so we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.


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## TKE Mario (Feb 20, 2006)

AlyssaC said:


> No matter how you look at it, every participant wants and a lot expect to win at these shows. The former, is exactly what a show participant should strive for...to win. The latter...no one should expect to place. I was one of the judges at the show this year, (2nd year running) and it's not my first go-round with judging. I've been doing it for many years now at numerous shows. It's the same kind of complaining at every single show. Waterfest and H2Oi get the most complaints about judging. And why is that? Because they're two of the largest and most popular water cooled VW & Audi shows in the country.
> 
> This year, so many people didn't clean their cars. There was a ton of dirt all along the seat tracks in majority of the cars I judged. The engine bays weren't clean or prepped. Loose and exposed wires from LED lighting or stereo equipment. Seat backings falling off. Center consoles filled with trash. Trunks not cleaned out. Wooden floors with ill-fitment. Sagging headliners. Stains on carpets and seats. Air tanks with handprints all over the polished finish. One participant even had a small Tupperware container of weed chilling on top of their closed cupholder. (Seriously.) That car, had a lot of smoke odor to it as well. Some people declined to open their hood for us to look at the engine bay because they hadn't even cleaned it. I told them "If you don't open it, it's 0 points out of 15 in the mechanical category because I can't judge what I can't see. Even if it's dirty, 1 point is better than 0."
> 
> ...


nailed it. :thumbup:
/thread


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

P Q said:


> I don't know how that white mk4 got first unless that car wasn't even in his class


The one with the trailer? And paw prints? :laugh:

VW whored it out all over their IG. :facepalm:


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

I'll leave this here


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

PSU said:


> The one with the trailer? And paw prints? :laugh:
> 
> VW whored it out all over their IG. :facepalm:


Paw prints won mk3 super mod:what:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

PSU said:


> The one with the trailer? And paw prints? :laugh:
> 
> VW whored it out all over their IG. :facepalm:


I meant mk5. My mistake but that convo is over as it turns out I had my classes confused


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## MKIIIjettadude (Sep 27, 2009)

Wish there was a middle finger emoji for P Q.....


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

stevevr6 said:


> ...The judges knew the cars and knew what to look for, I barely had to tell them anything as they where very knowledgeable with the cars in the class....


I happen to have the same two judges as last year and they new my car almost better then I did lol. I just stood there


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

MKIIIjettadude said:


> Wish there was a middle finger emoji for P Q.....



Who peed in your Cheerios? Did you miss that part that I said my mistake and that I had mistaken your car for another car in another class?

Btw. They do make a middle fingure emoji :thumbup:


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## djstarscr3am (Aug 16, 2012)




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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

just saw that movie last night, I was dying when he was smiling lmao


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

arismkv said:


> I'll leave this here


LOL. 

I'll leave that one alone.


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## BigDreams Lilpockets (Mar 3, 2011)

arismkv said:


> I'll leave this here


lmao :laugh::facepalm:


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

He bought the first place trophy?


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## 0verboost (Aug 8, 2003)

Could not say it better myself AlyssaC. I have been a judge two times at Waterfest so far. I was part of the judging for last year as well. It is a tough job, you get up early and you are out in the heat all day. I unfortunately was not able to judge or even attend wateriest this year because my nephew's first birthday was that weekend. I agree with everything AlyssaC said above. Also, some people complain about the level of VW intelligence the judges have. When I judge I see more then you think and this goes for some other judges as well. Just because we don't stand there and chit chat about how a eurospec part you integrated in your car does not mean automatically that we didn't see it. We have a lot of cars to judge in a relatively short period of time. 

Also I strongly agree with what Alyssa said,


> "remember, it's not about how many modifications you have. It's how well they're executed."


 If your eurospec part is being held to the car with duct tape you won't achieve the same points as if the time was taken to properly execute it. I look forward to next years Waterfest and I plan on judging for it as well.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't think anyone here is going to argues that execution is something that needs to be done well. its just a little odd when a car with clean polished wheels looses to a car that looks like their polished lips sat in hurricane Sandy and haven't been cleaned since or real bbs rs vs fake 855 rs lol


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

P Q said:


> I don't think anyone here is going to argues that execution is something that needs to be done well. its just a little odd when a car with clean polished wheels looses to a car that looks like their polished lips sat in hurricane Sandy and haven't been cleaned since or real bbs rs vs fake 855 rs lol


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

sorry 885 lol


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

The results are up


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

I scored second to last in my class.. for a grand total of 45 points.

If you judged Class 61 and you are on here, you are truly an idiot... and that's putting it nicely. I have zero respect for you.

Cars that didn't even have their windows, doors, hoods, etc, open scored higher than me.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

The *lovely guy* in the black shirt... 

If anyone knows him, tell him to stay home next year because he clearly should not be judging cars.


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## NJVWR32 (Aug 15, 2006)

*PSU*



PSU said:


> I scored second to last in my class.. for a grand total of 45 points.
> 
> If you judged Class 61 and you are on here, you are truly an idiot... and that's putting it nicely. I have zero respect for you.
> 
> Cars that didn't even have their windows, doors, hoods, etc, open scored higher than me.


How many cars were in your class? That's strange cause your car is always looking very good and is super clean. Did you talk to him while he was judging your car? 45 points is very low. That's half of what I got. I might give that to a car that has a dirty engine bay, rusted rotors, dirt on the mats, trunk full of crap, ect.

I think his name is Ramone and he also judged my class #48. There were only 5 cars and IMO he got the order right. But between 3rd and 4th there was only a 1 point difference.

In your class he must have gotten the #'s wrong.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

NJVWR32 said:


> How many cars were in your class? That's strange cause your car is always looking very good and is super clean. Did you talk to him while he was judging your car? 45 points is very low. That's half of what I got. I might give that to a car that has a dirty engine bay, rusted rotors, dirt on the mats, trunk full of crap, ect.
> 
> I think his name is Ramone and he also judged my class #48. There were only 5 cars and IMO he got the order right. But between 3rd and 4th there was only a 1 point difference.
> 
> In your class he must have gotten the #'s wrong.


I believe there were 8-9 cars. 

And I agree Pat. You've seen my car and even judged my car before. You also know I don't even get upset but this is upsetting. I spent hours cleaning it... Heck.. Ask my girlfriend. We even lint rolled the entire floor after the ride there. 










It's not the fanciest but I take pride in it and keep it clean enough to eat off any part of it. 

I don't know. Unless he just didn't like me or didn't like the car.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

well theres your issue, all that crap in the trunk 

:laugh:

I kid:wave:


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

PSU said:


> The *lovely guy* in the black shirt...
> 
> If anyone knows him, tell him to stay home next year because he clearly should not be judging cars.


The older man sitting in the middle with the cap on and the Asian guy next to him judged my car. I scored 70 points this year compared to last years 80, maybe I should have kept the BBS wheels on.....lol,
They didn't even know that an R32 engine wasn't an option in 1997.


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## PSU (May 15, 2004)

P Q said:


> well theres your issue, all that crap in the trunk
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> I kid:wave:


Hahahaha. Bunch of garbage back there. 

:wave:


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## VRPARTY (Sep 10, 2007)

*revival*

ill be judging this year. hopefully i can help bring some actual care into this matter. i would like to see waterfest be back to what it use to be.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

I see the 1/8th miles is only open to muffled street cars on sat and closed on Sunday. Just checked the E-Town list of events


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## TKE Mario (Feb 20, 2006)

http://www.waterfest.net/apps/SCResults21.asp?a=8

I thought my group was judged well, I might be a little bias tho eace:


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## StateSideS3 (Apr 13, 2007)

I will be parkig my car and walking away this year. The judging is always atrocious at this show. And its come to the point where i dont care about getting a plastic paper weight that gets thrown out after anyway. The shows that put some time into their awards and make them cool is where its at. I just got back from Eurokracy in Montreal and let me tell you they sure do know how to throw a proper show. Nothing ive been to in the states compares. And im talking about the show itself, not like the strip in ocean city. And when they fly in a PVW editor to judge every car and is the only judge it feels good to actually win something from someone who knows what they are looking at. Taking home Finest A3/S3 at that show was a nice feeling and makes me not care about showingat waterfest at all. Eapecially when i didnt evenplace last year in my class :laugh:
Judges at waterfest look for quantity of "mods" not quality. Just because someone may have all these things done to their car, but its actually all done like **** and looks very poor quality will get more points then a nice and clean car. 
Enough of my rant for the day. Lol
Lets see what people have to say again after this year. :beer:


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

StateSideS3 said:


> I will be parkig my car and walking away this year. The judging is always atrocious at this show. And its come to the point where i dont care about getting a plastic paper weight that gets thrown out after anyway. The shows that put some time into their awards and make them cool is where its at. I just got back from Eurokracy in Montreal and let me tell you they sure do know how to throw a proper show. Nothing ive been to in the states compares. And im talking about the show itself, not like the strip in ocean city. And when they fly in a PVW editor to judge every car and is the only judge it feels good to actually win something from someone who knows what they are looking at. Taking home Finest A3/S3 at that show was a nice feeling and makes me not care about showingat waterfest at all. Eapecially when i didnt evenplace last year in my class :laugh:
> Judges at waterfest look for quantity of "mods" not quality. Just because someone may have all these things done to their car, but its actually all done like **** and looks very poor quality will get more points then a nice and clean car.
> Enough of my rant for the day. Lol
> Lets see what people have to say again after this year. :beer:


2 years ago the mk3 class was judged very well. The judges knew the actual cars and what mods where done to the cars. Just to give you an example. 1 judge asked what rear stress bar I had as he had never seen one like that. Before I could even respond the other judge said it was the child restraint bar and it's mandatory in Canada. Last years judging was.... no comment.
Last year I was placed in Mod1, I called the organizer long distance to notify him I was in the wrong class. He was expecting me to bitch about being in a higher class when in fact I wanted to move up from Mod1 to Mod2. I just wanted everyone to be on a level playing field.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

VRPARTY said:


> ill be judging this year. hopefully i can help bring some actual care into this matter. i would like to see waterfest be back to what it use to be.


a small show/GTG, at Rapid Parts, in Monsey, NY?

Butthurt about show judging has always been a tradition at Waterfest.... so, if Waterfest committee, treated it more like a giant GTG, and got rid of the car show portion, people would be happier, they would find something else to complain about.


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

Follow the point system make sure car is clean and make sure you take everthing out and have a display it's 5 points. I been going to waterfest for the longest and I always see cars with **** in the car or no display and then people complain


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

FastAndFurious said:


> Follow the point system make sure car is clean and make sure you take everthing out and have a display it's 5 points. I been going to waterfest for the longest and I always see cars with **** in the car or no display and then people complain


I had everything out of the car before the judges even showed up. They didn't need to wait for me. Brief introduction and away we went. I didn't have a big display, just a binder with some pics of the "build" and that's it. 5 points are 5 points....lol


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## chrism1 (Sep 21, 2014)

i would love to see how the points broke out this year.....judging at least in my class and the few near me seemed to be fair and tough...they knew the cars, looked deep into the crevices checking for cleanliness, small mods, how they were put together, crawling under cars,etc....i spent about 5-10 minutes going over my car with them and they seemed to know about the rare mods before i even brought them up


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

chrism1 said:


> i would love to see how the points broke out this year.....judging at least in my class and the few near me seemed to be fair and tough...they knew the cars, looked deep into the crevices checking for cleanliness, small mods, how they were put together, crawling under cars,etc....i spent about 5-10 minutes going over my car with them and they seemed to know about the rare mods before i even brought them up


In a few days you can see the points for each class. You will not see a breakdown of each category. The judges in my class also knew what to look for and what mods where done to the cars. Very pleasant and still had a great attitude even in that heat.


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

stevevr6 said:


> In a few days you can see the points for each class. You will not see a breakdown of each category. The judges in my class also knew what to look for and what mods where done to the cars. Very pleasant and still had a great attitude even in that heat.


Makes me happy to read this. We had 19 judges this year (up from 12 last year) and they all seemed pretty careful (all but 2 were knowledgeable). Biggest problem this year: getting to the show on time, due to New Jersey's Finest in large part

First car in the gate: The SEMA Corrado. He worked up a sweat FOR HOURS cleaning his car.


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

DaddyOfPayton said:


> Makes me happy to read this. We had 19 judges this year (up from 12 last year) and they all seemed pretty careful (all but 2 were knowledgeable). Biggest problem this year: getting to the show on time, due to New Jersey's Finest in large part
> 
> First car in the gate: The SEMA Corrado. He worked up a sweat FOR HOURS cleaning his car.


I will say this..... the judging seemed to move right along this year. They didn't seem to be running behind and even the awards ceremony started on time.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

Judges need to stop running their hands all over the cars. That's all I will have to say


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

P Q said:


> Judges need to stop running their hands all over the cars. That's all I will have to say


If that happens at Waterfest, you find me. I mean it. They are told MULTIPLE times not to touch a car, ever. That is why we make you open all the doors, etc. No one from the judging staff should EVER touch your car. 

I have been judging a long time, and I go out of my way to "hover" and look without touching. I'm certain that you cannot find ANYONE I have ever judged that will say I made contact with their car.

P.S. I was just in Queens dropping my daughter at the airport.


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## Bagged_VW (Jul 13, 2016)

Arnt the judges suppose to use the papers in their hands to write down modifications to compare to the others? I guess simply because we were the last section that they didn't care. They wrote down nothing. Another judge came up to them while at my car and took their papers. They were not even listening to me while I was talking. The one guy was clearly looking past me as I was looking at him. It's not taken seriously. Here or at H2Oi. It's all about what wheels you have and the stance. I would have loved to walk around the show but I got stuck at my vehicle all day. That's something that needs to change. There should be no reason the show competitor has to stick around and waste their time especially when you have judges who could care less which every year WaterFest has them. There is no organization to what classes get judged when which has always seemed ridiculous. The class behind you, next to you, and in front of you gets judges but you have to wait till 3pm and be the last group to be judged.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

DaddyOfPayton said:


> If that happens at Waterfest, you find me. I mean it. They are told MULTIPLE times not to touch a car, ever. That is why we make you open all the doors, etc. No one from the judging staff should EVER touch your car.
> 
> I have been judging a long time, and I go out of my way to "hover" and look without touching. I'm certain that you cannot find ANYONE I have ever judged that will say I made contact with their car.
> 
> P.S. I was just in Queens dropping my daughter at the airport.


The only reason My car was judged was because I just happened to be at sitting at my tent when they came by, other wise I wouldn't have been there or cared. All my doors where open and they still rubbed there hands on the paint (for god only knows what reason) hands where in the door jams and all. My car is black, I do not touch it unless I HAVE to, there is no reason why the judge needs to be a 2 year old and touch what they see.

and like the post before me, judges seemed to not care about anything I was saying. At one point I just stopped mid sentence and walked away. I am not a trophy hunter at all so it I don't get upset about the judging, but there are people out there who would be/are upset at how the judging is


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

P Q said:


> The only reason My car was judged was because I just happened to be at sitting at my tent when they came by, other wise I wouldn't have been there or cared. All my doors where open and they still rubbed there hands on the paint (for god only knows what reason) hands where in the door jams and all. My car is black, I do not touch it unless I HAVE to, there is no reason why the judge needs to be a 2 year old and touch what they see.
> 
> and like the post before me, judges seemed to not care about anything I was saying. At one point I just stopped mid sentence and walked away. I am not a trophy hunter at all so it I don't get upset about the judging, but there are people out there who would be/are upset at how the judging is


I had my hood, hatch and gas flap open before the judges arrived. I was sitting a few rows away under a friends tent when the judges came by. When I saw them judging the car before mine I went to stand next to the car. The judges looked over the car with everything open and asked me to open my doors as well. Once they did that "inspection" they asked me to close everything to see how it flows. NOT once did a judge touch my car even while leaning in the door to look at the interior.
For me the judging was a lot better then last year.... in my class at least as I can't speak for anyone else.


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## P Q (Feb 4, 2009)

Yeah not the case in my class, oh well. Think this was my last year. I used to go mostly for the vendors but I'm not in the market for stickers and t shirts anymore


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

P Q said:


> Yeah not the case in my class, oh well. Think this was my last year. I used to go mostly for the vendors but I'm not in the market for stickers and t shirts anymore


We did mention that a lot this year in our group of friends. The vendors area was smaller then years past. We travel 9 hours each way to Waterfest and we are always at the show first thing on Saturday to hit up all the vendors. I walked away empty handed this year from the vendors. The "used" section had a lot of movement though.


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## StateSideS3 (Apr 13, 2007)

haha
whatever lady was judging my class felt the need to rub her hand all over my car and body lines as if she didn't have eyes, made no sence what so ever


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

Show results are up.

http://www.waterfest.net/apps/results22.asp


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

stevevr6 said:


> I had my hood, hatch and gas flap open before the judges arrived.


That is the reverse of how I normally do it (start closed to see body lines and gaps, paint quality, etc) and then open everything up.

the judging sheets are printed with the list of mods that were selected at the time of registration. We don't usually write much on the scoring sheets.



stevevr6 said:


> I was sitting a few rows away under a friends tent when the judges came by. When I saw them judging the car before mine I went to stand next to the car.


Thanks, that makes a lot easier than having to fill out one of those "You weren't here" forms that we stick under the wiper.



stevevr6 said:


> NOT once did a judge touch my car even while leaning in the door to look at the interior.
> For me the judging was a lot better then last year.... in my class at least as I can't speak for anyone else.


Thanks. You deserve to be judged fairly, and not have you car pawed like a cheap date at the Bada Bing. 

Glad to hear it! 

Now, come be part of my crew next year. PM me for deets


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

StateSideS3 said:


> haha
> whatever lady was judging my class felt the need to rub her hand all over my car and body


That will NORMALLY cost you extra in New Jersey....

I kid, I kid. I'll find out who judged that class; she'll change her behavior or she won't be asked back, simple as that.

Usually work in teams of two; solo judge?


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## StateSideS3 (Apr 13, 2007)

DaddyOfPayton said:


> That will NORMALLY cost you extra in New Jersey....
> 
> I kid, I kid. I'll find out who judged that class; she'll change her behavior or she won't be asked back, simple as that.
> 
> Usually work in teams of two; solo judge?


This was class 57, Audi Super Mod.
I believe there was actually 3 if I'm not mistaken, 2 male, 1 female


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

DaddyOfPayton said:


> That is the reverse of how I normally do it (start closed to see body lines and gaps, paint quality, etc) and then open everything up.
> 
> the judging sheets are printed with the list of mods that were selected at the time of registration. We don't usually write much on the scoring sheets.
> 
> ...



I had everything open so people can see what's going on with the car. No point of having my hood closed while I have an R32 swap in an mk3  They saw the car all opened and then asked me to close the car to look at the bodylines, gaps etc.... Then they said thanks and walked away to finish their thing while I opened the car up again for the people walking around.

The only problem I have had with the show is registration. There isn't a 6cyl - 6 cyl swap in the options. Selecting mods can be hit or miss with what class it puts you in. 3 years ago I was mod 2, the last 2 years I have been mod 1 YET I have added more mods to the car and I select everything that has been done to the car.

To be honest with you, I wouldn't mind to judge cars but I think I will pass up on Waterfest next year. I have wanted to go to either H20i or Eurokracy for some time now. I can only attend 1 big show a year as other responsibilities and priorities come first.


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## chrism1 (Sep 21, 2014)

stevevr6 said:


> I had everything open so people can see what's going on with the car. No point of having my hood closed while I have an R32 swap in an mk3  They saw the car all opened and then asked me to close the car to look at the bodylines, gaps etc.... Then they said thanks and walked away to finish their thing while I opened the car up again for the people walking around.
> 
> The only problem I have had with the show is registration. There isn't a 6cyl - 6 cyl swap in the options. Selecting mods can be hit or miss with what class it puts you in. 3 years ago I was mod 2, the last 2 years I have been mod 1 YET I have added more mods to the car and I select everything that has been done to the car.
> 
> To be honest with you, I wouldn't mind to judge cars but I think I will pass up on Waterfest next year. I have wanted to go to either H20i or Eurokracy for some time now. I can only attend 1 big show a year as other responsibilities and priorities come first.


did you have a stuffed wookie under your hood?....if so i remember your car


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## Bagged_VW (Jul 13, 2016)

stevevr6 said:


> Show results are up.
> 
> http://www.waterfest.net/apps/results22.asp


WTF!!!!! How the hell did I get a 0. I stood there all damn day and talked to those judges who eventually showed up. What BS! This goes right with my last post. That's horrible for a show that is suppose to be a top VW show to attend.


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

I had judges touch my car as well didn't understand that but whatever it wasn't to the point to get me upset. My classification is always all over the place I was in beetle mod2 but last year I was in /mk3/mk4 supermodified. Overall I enjoyed the show and was happy to leave out of there in good time and not hit traffic but if I made an afford to clean my car and not get judged and receive 0 I would be pissed


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## PolarSilverJetta (Aug 23, 2014)

I was one of the very first people to get judged, luckily for me I just got back from snooping the vendors for early stuff and the judges just showed up. Personally, I don't think I should have won anything, the red corrado beside me was much more deserving than me, but I had him beat by 3 points which very well could have come down to the display. I'm not sure, all I know is that the judges in my class knew their stuff. All I head when walking through the higher populated mk4 mk5 areas of the show it was all "the judges this" and "the judges that" nothing but a ton of pissing and moaning. Unfortunately newer cars are simpler to find in great shape, so it literally does come down to best wheels and stance. I won't speak for the super mod classes, those cars are beyond insane and I would be pissed in that class if I wasn't judged properly.

Only major gripe about the show was the registration. Getting there without a class number was a headache, nobody seemed to want to help figure it out and when it was no one knew where class 5 was, I was circling the lot asking people until I eventually just drove to find it myself


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

What class were you in? 47 would be my guess.

Let me know and I'll look into it


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

Bagged_VW said:


> WTF!!!!! How the hell did I get a 0. I stood there all damn day and talked to those judges who eventually showed up. What BS! This goes right with my last post. That's horrible for a show that is suppose to be a top VW show to attend.


Let me know what class you were in and whether or not you were parked with the rest of the class members. Also, were you in place by 10am? PM if you like and I will look into it


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

DaddyOfPayton said:


> What class were you in? 47 would be my guess.
> 
> Let me know and I'll look into it


Or maybe 61?


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

You were in 61. I found you by process of elimination. Only 3 cars in that class got judged

Jim


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

DaddyOfPayton said:


> You were in 61. I found you by process of elimination. Only 3 cars in that class got judged
> 
> Jim


I am puzzled by this. I am looking into it with the assumption that we screwed up (we the judges)

Jim


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

chrism1 said:


> did you have a stuffed wookie under your hood?....if so i remember your car


That would be me


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## frostyflax17 (Feb 7, 2009)

i had fun, it was kinda of funny seeing how many people loved my car, but it was the anti-show car. It was dirty as heck, scratches, dents, etc all over the car. However the list of mods on the sheet did not correspond to what i had done to the car, it's a highly modified car but apparently "winch, offroad tires, offroad suspension, etc" isn't on the common mods list lol. 

The judge was kind (i say judge because the 2nd one skipped my car and went to the clean scirocco next to me), he looked it over, asked me to describe the car in 30 seconds, then went to join the 2nd judge with the scirocco. 

I was slightly dissappointed i came in last place out of all the cars despite everyone loving it lol. 

Oh well, it's my first car show i ever went to, i wasn't doing it to win a trophy, i was doing it to show off all the work i put into making a barn find audi coupe quattro into a offroad warrior.


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## tmlhttr98 (Nov 7, 2010)

The girl who won the mk6 mod one category had her significant other as a judge. So there's that lol.


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

tmlhttr98 said:


> The girl who won the mk6 mod one category had her significant other as a judge. So there's that lol.


Did he judge her car or was he judging other classes?


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

tmlhttr98 said:


> The girl who won the mk6 mod one category had her significant other as a judge. So there's that lol.


Judges are REQUIRED to remove themselves from judging cars where they know the owner; This can cost them their pay and they won't be invited back, period. 

So, it was Mark 6 Mod 1. That can be 1 of 3 classes: 7, 8 or 43. 

Class 7 and 8 were both won by girls. One is Jetta, one is Golf. Please let me know which one.


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

stevevr6 said:


> Did he judge her car or was he judging other classes?


This is 100% true. If the judge did not judge her class, that is completely OK. 

I've only had 1 person ask me to do them a "favor" for a friend, and that friend thought that the "fix" was in and didn't bother to clean his car. He got a 58, and came in 7th of 10 cars.

No one has asked me to do this at waterfest since 2003. I think that speaks for itself


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## tmlhttr98 (Nov 7, 2010)

We were in class 7 together. I stood next to her before the awards were given out and she was talking to a younger kid (younger sibling?) and before the awards began she said "I need to know which side to go to, to get my award." Also looking back at years prior her judging scores took a major boost this year compared to the past years, from high 60s/mid 70s to the 90s now. Sure it's certainly possible that she brought it all together nicely over the past year. But comparing the scores of all thr class winners, there were only 2/3 cars with a higher overall score then hers. Coupling that with the comment she made, it just seems a bit off to me. 

I got to meet a bunch of people in my class and traded some war stories about our cars and had a great time sharing a canopy tent (what a life saver), that it just really not cool to see all these guy and gals slighted over someone who receives an unfair advantage. I was more upset that the guy parked next to me didn't win after hearing his and his cars back story then myself. 

Anywho, I would really be interested in learning what exactly I could improve upon, from my score standpoint. Is there anyway to see/know what the scores were in the breakdown by category? Example: exterior, interior, etc.


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## Bagged_VW (Jul 13, 2016)

Hey DaddyOfPayton, I sent you a PM about the R32 61 class but haven't heard back. Just was wondering what was up?


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

Bagged_VW said:


> Hey DaddyOfPayton, I sent you a PM about the R32 61 class but haven't heard back. Just was wondering what was up?


I'm still working on it. The items I need are in someone else's possession.


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## tmlhttr98 (Nov 7, 2010)

Anyway to get a breakdown of my score? Just curious what I need to improve upon when going up against someone who is being judged by their fiancé lol


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## chrism1 (Sep 21, 2014)

so this year?........


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)




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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

chrism1 said:


> so this year?........


THIS YEAR WAS GREAT!!!!!! EVERYONE WAS JUDGED FAIRLY AND EVERYONE WAS HAPPY!!!!!!!! 

/Sarcasm


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## BigDreams Lilpockets (Mar 3, 2011)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

BigDreams Lilpockets said:


>


For some it was. As you see below one person got a perfect score.


1999 VW Cabrio 2.0L 8V 100 (1)
1995 VW Cabrio 2.0L 8V 99 (2)
1995 VW Golf/GTI VR6 92 (3)


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

vumylinh9920 said:


> x2. With ALL the money they charge to be there im sure they could even pay (and probably not even much) for qualified ple to give the winning trophy some value


Let's do some math together.
If you are expecting someone to spend 15 to 20 minutes looking at your car and hearing your story, that is 3 cars per hour. You want the judging to start no earlier than 10, and you want awards by 4. With a second check on the math, late arrivals, and other impediments, that means each 2 person team can do *15* cars total per show. Which means we would need 40 teams of two working non-stop, assuming no one is parked wrong or wants to be re-judged. That is *80* people minimum.

Last year we only had 16 people *TOTAL* show up to judge. So yeah, we have to keep it moving. And that is why we were literally delivering class results AFTER the awards presentation had already begun. 

TL;DR Not enough people show up to judge so we have to go faster than we want to. And then spend time afterwards defending why we did what we did.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

vumylinh9920 said:


> x2. With ALL the money they charge to be there im sure they could even pay (and probably not even much) for qualified ple to give the winning trophy some value


Waterfest hasn't happened yet and you're already complaining.

Renting the racetrack and the grounds isn't cheap. So people and vendors need to fork over money.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## DaddyOfPayton (Feb 24, 2004)

Just want to get a head start on the complaining for 2022


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## FastAndFurious (Feb 2, 2002)

i cant believe it , i just registered my car for waterfest again. i cant believe its been 20 years


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