# S3 tune question (rumor I heard)



## OMGK20 (Mar 8, 2005)

I heard a rumor that Audi's ECU logs EVERYTHING. So if you flash your ECU it will show higher PSI than stock. Etc
Is this true?


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## TetonS4 (Oct 11, 2012)

OMGK20 said:


> I heard a rumor that Audi's ECU logs EVERYTHING. So if you flash your ECU it will show higher PSI than stock. Etc
> Is this true?



Depends on the dealer you bring the car to for service. I'd lean on the conservative side and say all dealers will flag your car as modified and that data is sent back to Audi HQ. It can effect your warranty, if something catastrophic goes wrong they may void your warranty.


They'll flag your car for anything though, whether its the ECU, new exhaust, intake etc. This all according to my Audi dealer i went to when asked about tuning and such.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

OMGK20 said:


> I heard a rumor that Audi's ECU logs EVERYTHING. So if you flash your ECU it will show higher PSI than stock. Etc
> Is this true?


Does it LOG that data? Not strictly, I don't think. If you throw a code, it does save a freeze frame of all the relevant sensors at that exact moment, which could include higher manifold pressure than normal. However, if you ask the dealer to scan for codes while you have a tune installed, it's almost guaranteed they will detect that the ECU is not running their software directly, and flag your car, even if all the specs are within stock ranges (IE, you switched to the 'stock map' within your tune). And, like the guy above me said, they're also told to manually flag you when they see things like aftermarket intakes, exhausts, etc.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes, if you throw a code there is a specific timestamp with all of the relevant data frozen on it. You can check this by accessing it via VCDS.

If you are tuned, and something happens at an RPM that would not be possible on a stock ECU, or at a boost pressure that is not possible on a stock ECU, and technicians can determine that a fault did not cause the increased RPM or boost level, they will obviously assume a tune is in play.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

OMGK20 said:


> I heard a rumor that Audi's ECU logs EVERYTHING. So if you flash your ECU it will show higher PSI than stock. Etc
> Is this true?


Yes it sounds like this is true.

There is an ongoing thread over on Audizine regarding the new B8.5 tunes that this came up in

What has apparently happened is that certain people with APR's newest flashes have had issues throwing CELs or other maladies, so they flash back to full stock to take the car to the dealer for diagnosis.

From a post over there:



> I had a long chat with the manager and my service advisor which i have known for years....Audi has a new way of checking levels on ecu's and also they have log files embedded and stored in the ECU. regardless of flashing back to stock the log files are stored and they get checked and logged in when CEL comes on. AUDI tools access the log flies and read thru levels and anything beyond the normal allowed levels get flagged. They also showed me the 155mph engine flashing code that happened about 2 months ago that gets stored in...


For years APR has been emphatic that fully flashing to stock replaces the entire binary in the ECU and therefore could not be detected and flagged TD1 at the dealer. I asked point blank in that thread about the same thing after this new "logging" theory had come to light, and have heard crickets since. The silence speaks volumes, and I would venture a guess to say that this logging is not something APR anticipated.

I am the type who believes you should accept the responsibility for tuning and not expect a manufacturer to cover damage associated with modification. That said, I also entirely disagree with the way Audi treats TD1, as it seems to be entirely counter to the spirit of the Moss-Magnuson warranty act. I would also expect a tuning company like APR who, to date, had been vehement in their statements regarding TD1 detection, to be open and forthright about a potential where this may not be the case in reality.

Hoping Arin chimes in that thread and lets us know what is actually going on, though he has already posted and not addressed the question.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

ChrisFu said:


> Yes it sounds like this is true.
> 
> There is an ongoing thread over on Audizine regarding the new B8.5 tunes that this came up in
> 
> What has apparently happened is that certain people with APR's newest flashes have had issues throwing CELs or other maladies, so they flash back to full stock to take the car to the dealer for diagnosis.


So, reading that thread, and what the person who heard this from the dealer stated, is basically the same as what I stated above: When you throw a code (Pending or otherwise.. in other words, you can throw a code without actually illuminating the check engine light), freeze frame values are stored, and can be looked at later. The important statement in what you quoted is "When CEL comes on". Someone later in the thread asked for clarification and the clarification just makes it more clear - the 'extra logging' is explicitly linked to CELs, which we already discussed above. Flashing a tune apparently does not clear those values. They don't make any references to 'deeper' logs than this. I'm not saying it's not possible, but so far, the information shared is the same information I could have gotten from the car with VCDS, and thus I don't see anything to contradict the previous info yet. But as we keep saying - there are lots of ways to get flagged with TD1. If your dealer doesn't want to be reasonable with basic mods, realize you could leave yourself with no easy recourse. But if you tune it, and you blow your engine or turbo, you probably don't have a legal leg to stand on, TD1 or no.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

araemo said:


> So, reading that thread, and what the person who heard this from the dealer stated, is basically the same as what I stated above: When you throw a code (Pending or otherwise.. in other words, you can throw a code without actually illuminating the check engine light), freeze frame values are stored, and can be looked at later. The important statement in what you quoted is "When CEL comes on". Someone later in the thread asked for clarification and the clarification just makes it more clear - the 'extra logging' is explicitly linked to CELs, which we already discussed above. Flashing a tune apparently does not clear those values. They don't make any references to 'deeper' logs than this. I'm not saying it's not possible, but so far, the information shared is the same information I could have gotten from the car with VCDS, and thus I don't see anything to contradict the previous info yet. But as we keep saying - there are lots of ways to get flagged with TD1. If your dealer doesn't want to be reasonable with basic mods, realize you could leave yourself with no easy recourse. But if you tune it, and you blow your engine or turbo, you probably don't have a legal leg to stand on, TD1 or no.


Agree on all points. However, you will notice with this particular individual, he has always been on good terms with his dealer who he repeatedly describes as mod friendly. They did not go out of their way to manually flag his car.

We know that the Audi diagnostic system _will _automatically flag any car without dealer intervention if it detects ECU modification. We also know that a TD1 flag is wholly irreversible and locked to your VIN.

Now, would you think that a simple diagnostic scan that looks for simple "values out of normal parameters" would really trigger an automatic and irreversible TD1 flag on a vehicle? Many actual component failures on a non-tuned car could cause identical parameters to be stored in the logs - would Audi's system really be programmed to potentially automatically flag a car that had no ECU modification? That's the implication if what you are saying is true.

To me, I find it more likely that the ECU logs more than simple VCDS-accessible data when a code is thrown. Perhaps even a portion of the binary snapshot, who knows. 

A better question is why a full "flash to stock" procedure does not also wipe these logs.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

ChrisFu said:


> A better question is why a full "flash to stock" procedure does not also wipe these logs.


Or at least have a documented procedure to do so. If you're flashing back to stock because of needing a CEL looked at, it would be ideal to leave the CEL/codes in place if the fault is unrelated to the tune, otherwise you then have to drive around until the fault happens again (less than ideal if it is either an intermittent fault, or a major fault that could be causing further damage).


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## TheLocNar (Apr 6, 2015)

What about the piggyback tuners. From what I understand, they don't touch ECU coding but intercept it instead. Removing the module before going to the dealer, and they'd be none the wiser, correct?


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## Phanuel (Sep 4, 2014)

Except for all of the wiring harness left behind unless you're also clearing that out.


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## TheLocNar (Apr 6, 2015)

Well yeah. Like the Neuspeed. It's all one unit. Just take the 5-10 min and unplug it all. 

Sure, you won't get the gains you would vs. APR/Uni, but you won't have any warranty issues either.


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## coolwater (Nov 27, 2007)

There is also the dtuk piggyback as well. The bmw and Benz guys do it that way and get pretty good results. 

-cW


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## Bamm1 (Oct 17, 2013)

TheLocNar said:


> What about the piggyback tuners. From what I understand, they don't touch ECU coding but intercept it instead. Removing the module before going to the dealer, and they'd be none the wiser, correct?


Not exactly. If the information in this thread is accurate then the same issues would hold true for a pippyback unit. Let's take the Nuespeed unit for example. If you threw a code (CEL light may or may not come on) and at the time you were boosting +5 PSI over stock than that would get logged. If the dealer then read that log and there was no "malfunction" in any component that could explain the overboost situation they could surmise you modified the car in some way and TD1 you in the system.

Also, things like long term fuel trims would look very different in a piggyback car vs. a stock car.


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## s3saloon (Apr 10, 2015)

Bamm1 said:


> Not exactly. If the information in this thread is accurate then the same issues would hold true for a pippyback unit. Let's take the Nuespeed unit for example. If you threw a code (CEL light may or may not come on) and at the time you were boosting +5 PSI over stock than that would get logged. If the dealer then read that log and there was no "malfunction" in any component that could explain the overboost situation they could surmise you modified the car in some way and TD1 you in the system.
> 
> Also, things like long term fuel trims would look very different in a piggyback car vs. a stock car.


Yea this could definitely happen. However, with an ECU tune the dealer can specifically see the read-only files and how they have been altered. With a piggy back, all they have to go off of are "ghost" codes that get thrown. I'm not sure that these codes alone are enough to prove that a piggy back was the cause of the over boost/increased pressure in the manifold. Audi has to be able to prove the cause to deny a claim and I'm not sure they would be able to.


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## Bamm1 (Oct 17, 2013)

s3saloon said:


> Yea this could definitely happen. However, with an ECU tune the dealer can specifically see the read-only files and how they have been altered. With a piggy back, all they have to go off of are "ghost" codes that get thrown. I'm not sure that these codes alone are enough to prove that a piggy back was the cause of the over boost/increased pressure in the manifold. Audi has to be able to prove the cause to deny a claim and I'm not sure they would be able to.


Again, based on what is being discussed in this thread there would be no altered "read only" files to find. The car has been taken back to "completely" stock with the original 100% stock tune being loaded back onto your ECU. So the TD1 tag and warranty denials would also be based on what you are calling "ghost" codes.

One more thing, this point seems to go unspoken in most of these threads. It is true that due to to MM Act Audi cannot deny your claim unless they can "prove" the mod caused the issue. But do you know how the proof shakes out? Audi corporate denies your claim and then you hire a lawyer who may have to take them to court. Since this hypothetical has us actually mod'ing the car that is not the place I would want to continue a lie.


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## s3saloon (Apr 10, 2015)

Bamm1 said:


> Again, based on what is being discussed in this thread there would be no altered "read only" files to find. The car has been taken back to "completely" stock with the original 100% stock tune being loaded back onto your ECU. So the TD1 tag and warranty denials would also be based on what you are calling "ghost" codes.
> 
> One more thing, this point seems to go unspoken in most of these threads. It is true that due to to MM Act Audi cannot deny your claim unless they can "prove" the mod caused the issue. But do you know how the proof shakes out? Audi corporate denies your claim and then you hire a lawyer who may have to take them to court. Since this hypothetical has us actually mod'ing the car that is not the place I would want to continue a lie.


After speaking with a few people from Audi, there is no such thing as truly going back to a stock tune anymore. If you get an ECU tune, no matter what you do to reflash back to stock, they will be able to tell that it has been modified. All the tuning companies may tell you one thing, but there are now read-only, non-active fields that cannot be altered back to stock (i.e. programming attempts, successful attempts, program status) - there is a discussion on one of the forums about this as well. The ODIS scan report will see the tune and heck, it even knows what type of tool was used to flash.

But yes, this is why I will not be tuning my car, too much of a headache for me.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

s3saloon said:


> After speaking with a few people from Audi, there is no such thing as truly going back to a stock tune anymore. If you get an ECU tune, no matter what you do to reflash back to stock, they will be able to tell that it has been modified. All the tuning companies may tell you one thing, but there are now read-only, non-active fields that cannot be altered back to stock (i.e. programming attempts, successful attempts, program status) - there is a discussion on one of the forums about this as well. The ODIS scan report will see the tune and heck, it even knows what type of tool was used to flash.
> 
> But yes, this is why I will not be tuning my car, too much of a headache for me.


Can you link to one of these discussions where someone with knowledge posts, rather than someone with conjecture? I'll verify the same way I did before - my tuner has dealer contacts that can look up if a car has been TD1'd for a tune, so I'll just find out eventually the natural way.


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## s3saloon (Apr 10, 2015)

araemo said:


> Can you link to one of these discussions where someone with knowledge posts, rather than someone with conjecture? I'll verify the same way I did before - my tuner has dealer contacts that can look up if a car has been TD1'd for a tune, so I'll just find out eventually the natural way.


Sure thing. I read it over here:

http://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-a3-s3-rs-3-mkii-209/apr-tuning-released-s3-2880893/

The whole thread is worth a read


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## misaka (Feb 8, 2013)

I have the current Neuspeed module at the moment, and I think the relative risk is very low on it.

This module basically changes the readings from the sensors that the ECU gets. After a certain point, the readings diverge from actual. ie the sensor reads 15 psi, but the ecu is told 13 psi, and say the sensor reads 20psi, the ecu will be fed say 17psi. So from a data logged perspective, the boost, mass air flow etc are all reading within boundaries. Should something occur, no value of overboost will be stored etc. What will happen at worst is that when they do a diagnostic, they may assume the sensor is malfunctioning tbh. This module however still relies on the engine running "lean" and short term built in compensation takes over from the ECU, so there is some detectable remnant of this.

The new JB4 Stage 1 module includes additional plugs to take over fueling as well, so it will automatically increase the fueling without letting the ecu know it's increased. Likely it will even set off less flags.

0-60 in 3.9 seconds isn't too bad on an S3 with a module anyways (4.9 on an A3)


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

s3saloon said:


> Sure thing. I read it over here:
> 
> http://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-a3-s3-rs-3-mkii-209/apr-tuning-released-s3-2880893/
> 
> The whole thread is worth a read


So, at that point it's basically a dealer tech's word against <tuner>'s. Audi says you can't reset the flash counter, but they also don't officially say you can reflash the ECU anywhere but a dealer. It's possible <tuner> has found a way to reset it despite audi's intentions. APR has claimed that they do reset that counter when flashing back to stock. I'll try and find the post where Arin states that specifically.

As people in that thread repeat though, your tune does have a warranty impact. Even if you remove the tune to avoid extra complications, but a ring seal gets blown or something similar, you should still be out of warranty on that part. On the other hand, if a crank position sensor, or something else that is not stressed at all by the tune goes, audi should be willing to pay it... the problem is that if it's attached to the engine, many dealers will say they won't warranty it if you're tuned at all, even if it couldn't realistically be affected by the tune. Worse, some dealers will refuse to warranty anything major if you have been TD1'd. This is all true about the piggy-back boxes too. The warranty only applies to parts you haven't changed the operation of.


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## Randle P. McMurphy (Jan 23, 2015)

Not even the SAs really know what goes on regarding TD1s, so it is all conjecture. 

Fact: You can get TD1'd for an intake. Someone mentioned that a tech PHOTOGRAPHED his bolt-on mods and sent the pictures to Audi. 

Fact: The ECU has _some_ memory capacity. Knowing that, how much space would a text file of EVERYTHING the ECU sees for 10+ years take up? Not much, and it ALL might be instantly sent back to Germany to compare against benchmarks, and then you get a TD1 letter a couple months later. 

Fact: Audi has stated that the warranty will be re-instated if the modifications are removed, but plenty of tuned owners are still forced to pay out of pocket for warranty work. 

Fact: Don't take a tuner's word on whether or not you will get TD1'd, because they do not know AND are essentially the ones selling you the TD1 badge. 

Fact: Pay to play. Wait for the RS3 if you want to keep your warranty and get more ponies :laugh:.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Randle P. McMurphy said:


> Fact: Audi has stated that the warranty will be re-instated if the modifications are removed, but plenty of tuned owners are still forced to pay out of pocket for warranty work.


Where did you get that? I have been told by Audi reps specifically the opposite, that TD1 is irreversible.


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## s3saloon (Apr 10, 2015)

ChrisFu said:


> Where did you get that? I have been told by Audi reps specifically the opposite, that TD1 is irreversible.


I originally thought this as well, but Audi has recently said that with a proper ECU re-install at the dealer, they will remove the deisgnation


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## Randle P. McMurphy (Jan 23, 2015)

ChrisFu said:


> Where did you get that? I have been told by Audi reps specifically the opposite, that TD1 is irreversible.


http://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/8351-bulletin-posted-to-audi-dealers-this-morning/

From the link: 

Q. Can the TD1 code be reversed?
A. Yes. If an approved software update is detected and applied during the diagnosis process, the TD1 code will be removed from our service systems. 

Discussion about it on AZ: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/645307-You-one-stop-shop-for-TD1-info-Straight-from-AoA!


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

That is very interesting info!


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## loopless (Oct 4, 2007)

Randle P. McMurphy said:


> Not even the SAs really know what goes on regarding TD1s, so it is all conjecture.
> 
> Fact: You can get TD1'd for an intake. Someone mentioned that a tech PHOTOGRAPHED his bolt-on mods and sent the pictures to Audi.
> 
> ...


Mostly speculations, not Fact: 
Especially the comment about 10years+ of data. The ECU does NOT keep that much data. Its remembers a very limited set of data. 

If tuned and you are going to the dealer with an issue like a CEL etc.
- Flash back to stock ( no-one has demonstrated that a APR tuned ECU can be detected after flashing back to factory stock image )
- This should clear all error codes, CELS etc and ECU memory.
- Wait until the car throws the CEL under the stock tune.

I've been flagged TD1 in the old days and have personal experience of these type of problems....


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

Bamm1 said:


> Not exactly. If the information in this thread is accurate then the same issues would hold true for a pippyback unit. Let's take the Nuespeed unit for example. If you threw a code (CEL light may or may not come on) and at the time you were boosting +5 PSI over stock than that would get logged. If the dealer then read that log and there was no "malfunction" in any component that could explain the overboost situation they could surmise you modified the car in some way and TD1 you in the system.
> 
> Also, things like long term fuel trims would look very different in a piggyback car vs. a stock car.


If I looking at a car that comes in with a CEL and I see boost levels above normal, I will try to figure out what caused this (If you take off the tuner, in theroy, I should find nothing and NPF the car and ship it) 

If it comes back later with the same issue, and the tuner has been taken off again, Now I will just have my service writer ask the question point blank to the customer, Do you have a tuner or anything done to the car? Depending how honest you are with me, depends my next steps in diagnostics and repair. 

Fuel trims will not matter, 5psi or 100psi the car will keeps fuel trims 0% (+/- 10% roughly) 

I also dont see how how reflashing the ECU back to a factory level will NOT get rid of everything? Sure you are getting rid of the check engine light, but if it is an actual prob. with the car, it should turn back on, right? 

I am not an Audi Tech, I am a master tech at another Euro brand that deals with this stuff daily.


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## Randle P. McMurphy (Jan 23, 2015)

loopless said:


> Mostly speculations, not Fact:
> Especially the comment about 10years+ of data. The ECU does NOT keep that much data. Its remembers a very limited set of data.
> 
> If tuned and you are going to the dealer with an issue like a CEL etc.
> ...


How was what I wrote "mostly speculations"? I speculated on the amount of data kept, but made it pretty clear that was an estimate. Everything else I wrote was either directly from Audi or someone who got TD1'd. 

I must have missed your "facts" used to refute my "speculations".


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## Bamm1 (Oct 17, 2013)

Spoooolin said:


> If I looking at a car that comes in with a CEL and I see boost levels above normal, I will try to figure out what caused this (If you take off the tuner, in theroy, I should find nothing and NPF the car and ship it)
> 
> If it comes back later with the same issue, and the tuner has been taken off again, Now I will just have my service writer ask the question point blank to the customer, Do you have a tuner or anything done to the car? Depending how honest you are with me, depends my next steps in diagnostics and repair.
> 
> ...


I think what you posted would hold true for the a piggyback unit like the Nuespeed Power Module. Something looks fishy but no other indications the ECU was altered. 

For an ECU flash the game might have changed on the 2015+ models. If you look at the link that s3saloon posted you will see information about Audi now using something called ODIS. This includes data that cannot be overwritten, even when flashed back to 100% stock. That data set includes Programming Attempts,
Successful Attempts, flash tool code, etc. APR, GIAC, etc. do not use an Audi specific tool to flash, the flash tool code would be wrong for the last flash back to stock. If the "attempts" cannot be rewritten then they will also know it was "flashed" more times than is archived on Audi's servers. Both will likely slap TD1 on you automatically in the system.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

loopless said:


> no-one has demonstrated that a APR tuned ECU can be detected after flashing back to factory stock image


Not true in the slightest, just go read some of the threads linked above.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

ChrisFu said:


> Not true in the slightest, just go read some of the threads linked above.


Well, the thread about ODIS doesn't actually have any details of a tune actually being detected after flashed back to stock, that I saw. It has a claim that audi has read-only portions of the ECU that the tuners can't modify.. but they are modifying what they're not supposed to be able to modify in the first place, so I'd still like to see someone be detected through actual 'modification detection' after flash back to stock (rather than based on freeze frames associated with trouble codes, as in the other thread), before we say the tuners can't hide it anyways...

That being said, without more data points, we also can't say for sure that APR is able to hide successfully after a flash back to stock... but they claim they can.


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

araemo said:


> Well, the thread about ODIS doesn't actually have any details of a tune actually being detected after flashed back to stock, that I saw. It has a claim that audi has read-only portions of the ECU that the tuners can't modify.. but they are modifying what they're not supposed to be able to modify in the first place, so I'd still like to see someone be detected through actual 'modification detection' after flash back to stock (rather than based on freeze frames associated with trouble codes, as in the other thread), before we say the tuners can't hide it anyways...
> 
> That being said, without more data points, we also can't say for sure that APR is able to hide successfully after a flash back to stock... but they claim they can.



Luckily, being in this industry I know a few techs at Audi, and also my wife works for an Audi dealership, so between the two of us we know enough people in the service department. 
I talked to the shop foreman and he said the cars and ecu's are not that smart. If the car is flashed back to stock, there is no reason the software they scan the cars would pick up anything different. Back in the day they had counters, and some people got caught on that, but not the new stuff. he said as far as the tech flagging the car for visual modifications, They will only do that IF that modification caused the failure in question. Otherwise, they dont say anything about it. So if I have an intake, and a ball joint goes bad....There is no reason to mention the intake.

I have the APR stage one currently, and will be installing my downpipe and getting stage two this coming week, I am going to take it to the dealer one day and flash it back to stock and just have them scan it like they would any other repair using whatever procedure they are supposed to. The car only has 2k miles on it, so we will see if I get flagged as a TD1.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Great info! My brother and I want to tune our S3's with APR Stage 1 especially now since it "seems" very simple and require no hardware upgrade, etc. However, with all this TD1 theories and concerns we're hesitating to pull the trigger. Maybe one day someone, somewhere out there will have a definitive answer for all of us tune noobs. :banghead:

:wave:


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Also, going in for your 5K mile oil change or the subsequent 15k, 25K, etc. oil change cause a TD1 flag if you have a Stage 1 tune in your car? 

Or is all of this about blowing up your engine or turbo and trying to figure out a way to keep the warranty intact by "hiding" the tune when you go in for warranty service?


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Spoooolin said:


> Luckily, being in this industry I know a few techs at Audi, and also my wife works for an Audi dealership, so between the two of us we know enough people in the service department.
> I talked to the shop foreman and he said the cars and ecu's are not that smart. If the car is flashed back to stock, there is no reason the software they scan the cars would pick up anything different. Back in the day they had counters, and some people got caught on that, but not the new stuff. he said as far as the tech flagging the car for visual modifications, They will only do that IF that modification caused the failure in question. Otherwise, they dont say anything about it. So if I have an intake, and a ball joint goes bad....There is no reason to mention the intake.


As far as I know, that is dependant on the specific dealership. It really depends how friendly they are to simple mods.



scope213 said:


> Great info! My brother and I want to tune our S3's with APR Stage 1 especially now since it "seems" very simple and require no hardware upgrade, etc. However, with all this TD1 theories and concerns we're hesitating to pull the trigger. Maybe one day someone, somewhere out there will have a definitive answer for all of us tune noobs. :banghead:
> 
> :wave:





scope213 said:


> Also, going in for your 5K mile oil change or the subsequent 15k, 25K, etc. oil change cause a TD1 flag if you have a Stage 1 tune in your car?
> 
> Or is all of this about blowing up your engine or turbo and trying to figure out a way to keep the warranty intact by "hiding" the tune when you go in for warranty service?


Lets be clear, some of it is definitely people wanting to hide the tune.. Personally, I asked the service manager at my dealership about how they handle tuned cars before I got mine tuned, and he recommended a specific shop in town.


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## m_bolc (Oct 19, 2008)

Why don't you all assume responsibility for your tuning? 

Why should Audi cover warranty work on a car that has clearly broken the terms and conditions of said warranty? If you want a faster car without losing your warranty, you're going to have to pay a higher entry fee.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

m_bolc said:


> Why don't you all assume responsibility for your tuning?


Some of us do.



> Why should Audi cover warranty work on a car that has clearly broken the terms and conditions of said warranty? If you want a faster car without losing your warranty, you're going to have to pay a higher entry fee.


The tune doesn't void the entire car's warranty in the US, it's legally required to only void the parts affected by the tune.


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

m_bolc said:


> Why don't you all assume responsibility for your tuning?
> 
> Why should Audi cover warranty work on a car that has clearly broken the terms and conditions of said warranty? If you want a faster car without losing your warranty, you're going to have to pay a higher entry fee.


There are times I agree with this, and times I dont....
If I have a tune or piggy back that gives my car 5 more psi, and 30 more HP, there is NO reason for that to cause a turbo to go out, ign. coil to fail, injector to fail, etc. Chances are that part was going to fail regardless. 

Now, If I come in, with intake, exhaust, stage 2 tune and a bunch of other crazy stuff, and are making WAY more power than what the car made from the facotry, this yes...I can see that causing premature part failures. 

I am a master tech at a Manufacturer that we see A LOT of modded cars and its our call (Techs) a lot of times as to what happens with warranty work.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Spoooolin said:


> Now, If I come in, with intake, exhaust, stage 2 tune and a bunch of other crazy stuff, and are making WAY more power than what the car made from the facotry, this yes...I can see that causing premature part failures.


For me, I'm just a regular chap that wants to "squeeze" a bit more out of my S3 cause of the great engine we have here and its potential without any hardware upgrade. I'm just a super beginner tuner wannabe trying to understand IF THE DEALERSHIPS WILL DETECT THESE #@#$# ECU UPGRADES from unitronic or APR, etc. However, I understand many go beyond the boundaries of what their car is capable of and end up destroying engines and turbos because they think they're Vin Diesel. 

Anyhow, basically what I got from this thread is couple of things:

1. Depends on the dealer or a lazy mechanic who doesn't care and you get lucky
2. There is a law that protects you unless the cause was from the tune. However, automakers won't make it easy for you if your car is flagged and you have to hire lawyers to get your car fixed and live in a nightmare, etc.

So I guess no ECU upgrade for now. :banghead:


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