# Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold??



## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

OK guys I am getting ready to Turbo my VR6 and I have been looking at different turbo manifolds. I like ATP because it is right there on top but it is close to the firewall and room may be an issue. I like EIP but it is HIGH and it uses stock parts (dont know if that is good or bad). Matrix one looks killer but it is also very high. So I was thinking I have a CNC Laser and I can cut my own flanges and all so why not make my own? The company I work for is a welding shop so I can weld everything myself. The problem is I need something to work from. I like the matrix one the most but the EIP one looks very easy to make! VERY! I dont want to make an exact copy and get in trouble with EIP or Matrix but I just need something to use as a guide for the bends. My main concern is fitment! I drive my car daily so I cant tear it down and test fit it every other day so I need something that we know works and fits good. Couple of questions.
1. What should I make this thing out of? Stainless or Steel?
2. How thick should the flanges be? 
3. What would you guys like to see as an improvement over the others out there?
The max thickness I can cut in Stainless on our Laser is 1/4" but stainless is much stronger and doesnt rust! The down side to stainless is it the $$$$$$$$$$$
If anyone has a manifold that they dont plan on installing anytime soon I would love to use it as a template. And as you know for letting me use yours I will give you one at cost!







One thing that will help is pictures of manifolds. I really would like to see some installed so I can see where the clearance is. I did a search and came up empty but if you guys have any links or other info that will help that would be great! Thanks Guys


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JVWGUY2* »_The problem is I need something to work from. I like the matrix one the most but the EIP one looks very easy to make! VERY! I dont want to make an exact copy and get in trouble with EIP or Matrix but I just need something to use as a guide for the bends. 

1/4in aint gonna cut in man. stainless warps more than any other.
also, what are you talking about getting in trouble? you got to be kidding.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (speed51133!)*

Yeah I didnt know if EIP and the other guys had a patent on there stuff and if you make an exact copy you will ge tin some trouble. I have not had problems with stainless wrapping but then again I never had it right on top of a blistering hot turbo either. What material do you guys suggest? I can use carbon steel too.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

EIP"Custom mandrel bent and tig welded tubular stainless steel turbo manifold designed to work with the T3 turbo or T3T4 Hybrid turbocharger" 
These guys are using stainless. I was thinking steel would be good if I had it heat treated. What do you think?


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

you can not, and will not get into trqouble if you make a 100% exact copy of eip or matrix's manifold.
EVEN IF they have it patented, you still cant get in trouble.
assuming they have it patented, which i highly doubt, you would only get in trouble if you made manifolds and sold them for a profit.
i mean where are you comming up with this??


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (speed51133!)*

I know! I plan on making one for me but I also plan on offering them to others so I would get in trouble if I sold an exact copy for a profit! I guess I didnt state it clearly. I will make one for me AND then offer them to others if anyone is interested. I agree they probably dont have a patent on them but you never know. Well now back to the topic of my post. Does anyone have a manifold (EIP, Matrix) that they dont plan on installing anytime soon that I can use as a template. The other thing is what do you guys think they should be made of? 
Oh thanks (speed51133!). I understand what you are saying it seems that there was a little lack of detail on my end. Thanks


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## fush23 (May 15, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

The guy making my manifold is using 1/2" stainless for the flanges iirc. Here is a picture of an "eip style" manifold installed on an engine so you can get an idea of turbo placement. As far as I know this is supposed to be exactly the same as the eip manifold but its being sold by another tuner in their turbo kits, if you were wondering about getting in trouble for copying their design.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (fush23)*

What size tube? Thanks for the pic


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

Also I dont see the wastgate flange is it on the other side?


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## AXISMODE (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

does it really make a difference how far the turbo is placed from the head. I've noticed ATP's manifold seems to be right there, and EIP's is way down.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (AXISMODE)*

As far as I know it really doesnt matter its just the fact that the EIP style makes it easy to keep your AC and it seems to be an easier install since you dont have to take the whole manifold off. I am going to make some regular steel prototypes as soon as I get a template to work from. Then I will make some out of stainless. Or hell I might just use regular steel and heat treat it so it doesnt rust.


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## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

I think this article will help you :
http://www.burnsstainless.com/....html


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## sold on expense (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (AXISMODE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AXISMODE* »_does it really make a difference how far the turbo is placed from the head. I've noticed ATP's manifold seems to be right there, and EIP's is way down.

Air closest to the head will be the hottest, and will help spool the turbo faster. They're driven off heat after all. But, I don't know how much heat is lost if the piping is longer.


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## WICKED A2 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JVWGUY2* »_As far as I know it really doesnt matter its just the fact that the EIP style makes it easy to keep your AC and it seems to be an easier install since you dont have to take the whole manifold off. I am going to make some regular steel prototypes as soon as I get a template to work from. Then I will make some out of stainless. Or hell I might just use regular steel and heat treat it so it doesnt rust. 

i have an atp manifold and down pipe in an a2 and i still have ac....


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (WICKED A2)*

I know it can be done but its just a little tight thats all.


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

Id say 3/8" thick 321 stainless steel flanges and 14 gage 321 stainless tubing 2 1/4" diameter would do the job. Don't use steel it will heat fatigue and crack. - Bob


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (Evolution Marine)*

Thanks for the info, any one have more pics of custom ones or any other VR6 manifolds to get ideas from?


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

Here are some pics of the matrix one.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

One suggestion... don't laser cut it, waterjet it. We can cut up to like 3" thick stainless (or something crazy like that) with water. It takes forever, but it can do it. From the looks of it, these guys flanges are 3/8. Let me know, I can get a flange cut for you if you have a CAD file to go off of.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (beetlevdubn)*

What would you charge? I can get waterjet done local but its a little high. We can cut 3/8 and all but that is pushing our laser to the limit. I have a .DWG file of all the flanges. Let me know.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

I'd have to see how much material it would take, then I could quote it. Our labor prices for waterjet are pretty competitive with laser. I do know that you run into some issues with laser once you get over 1/4" (at least with aluminum). I was going to have my S/C brackets cut with laser, but since I need 3/8", they said that the cut line wavers.... not giving a clean straight cut line.
You can email the dwg file to my email address, [email protected], and I can work up a quote and send it back to you via IM.
LMK,


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (beetlevdubn)*

Yeah I was asked to cut some SC brackets out of 3/8 but with our laser (2000watts) we cant do it and make it clean. Stainless we can cut 1/4 pretty easy but that may not be enough for the manifold. You wouldnt happen to work with Collier (userid) on parts like that would you? He had a friend looking for SC brackets out of 3/8 aluminum and ask if I could do it. I have a waterjet guy but if you can beat his price then thats cool. I was even thinking of making some out of mild steel until I got the design down. Then I would do it all in stainless







I dont have the drawings yet but my engineer is working on them. I really need a 12V manifold gasket for him to use as a template, the one that bolts to the head. I have the single flange gasket already. Is there anyway you can give me a rough quote without the .DWG?


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

Yea, I am working with Collier on some stuff, he was trying to see if he could beat the prices I was getting on waterjetting and machine shop work, but it doesn't appear to be working out that way.
Let me know which flanges you would need, the 3-hole, the complete head-to-manifold, etc., and I can get a ballpark for you.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (beetlevdubn)*

I emailed him some prices that my guy gave me did he get them to you? If not I can email them to you and see what you think.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

Yea, he basically said that he couldn't come close with laser, but he was going to get back to me with the waterjet prices if they were better. Let me know which flange(s), and I'll get an idea of how much material and let you know.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (beetlevdubn)*

Thats ok I have a guy that can do the waterjet work and to me he is very cheap. If you like I can send you the quote for your SC brackets and you can compare yours to the one I send you. It sounds like your waterjet guy is going to be higher than mine so I dont want to waste your time. Let me know if you are interested in me getting some work done for you or if you need any laser work done let me know. Thanks


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

Ok... Feel free to email the quote on the S/C brackets to me, at [email protected]
As far as the waterjetting goes, how many of these are you going to make? The guy that runs the waterjet machine is a good friend, so I can get one-offs for a good deal on the side.
LMK on the S/C brackets.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (beetlevdubn)*

Oh well I will email you the quote. Thanks


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (fush23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fush23* »_The guy making my manifold is using 1/2" stainless for the flanges iirc. Here is a picture of an "eip style" manifold installed on an engine so you can get an idea of turbo placement. As far as I know this is supposed to be exactly the same as the eip manifold but its being sold by another tuner in their turbo kits, if you were wondering about getting in trouble for copying their design.


Without getting into detail, I will say that there is indeed an infringement on our design and we are indeed handling this matter, I can say no more.
As for the price and the design, we have lowered our price so a complete kit with Manifold, DP, Dump Tube, and bracket are very competitively priced, see our site for details.
As for the turbo's distance from the head, this is not a concern with our design because of our use of the stock cast uppers which are incredibly well designed and retain heat very well. We then channel the exhaust gas through two short smooth primary tubes then into a T-4 flange. The exhaust velocity at the turbo inlet is extremely high with our design and it is part of how we are able to make over 750hp from a 12v VR6 w/out NOS. The fitment was also of a major concern as we didn’t feel that a customer should have to eliminate A/C or have to bash in their fire wall to fit the turbo as with some 6-1 cast designs. We always have the daily driven street vehicle in mind along with the ultimate performance potential.
I must say that the Matrix manifold is an absolutely beautiful piece. We originally tested 6-1 and a 6-2-1 design but ultimately we ended up with the 2-1 Y-Pipe design because it flowed as much air as the full tubular manifolds, it retains heat better by using the cast uppers, and we felt that longevity would be higher due to the stout design of the SS Y-Pipe. The Matrix manifold is still very beautiful thing!
-Rich


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (eiprich)*

Nice little post but I still feel that your kit is a little high (my opinion). I work in the metal fabrication industry and I know the cost of the materials. Yes you have to add labor and all that in but after you make a jig those things are super easy to make. I do have to give you guys props in the fact that I do like the location and the fact that I dont have to remove the VR6 manifold to install it. Not to mention the fact I can keep my AC. It is a very good manifold! I just wish the price was a little better.







Like everything else out there all you have to do is change it a little and you are in the clear. In the end if I cant get mine built I would probably buy one from EIP but I figure I have the materials and the equipment so why not try it. The only thing I dont have is time to tear my car down and test fit everything as I develop it. So that is why I ask if anyone had EIP or something custom that I could use as a template to avoid a large amount of down time. EIP keep up the good work! Get those prices down a little more and you could probably move many more manifolds! Thanks


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

I am sorry, I thought the site had been updated but I see that it has not, hopefully by tomorrow. 
Here are the updates: we lowered the price to $579 for the manifold and reduced the package price just $899 for the SS manifold, SS downpipe, SS dumptube and support bracket. This kit will include gaskets and hardware to complete the installation. 
We are also going to be listing our side mount and front mount piping kits seperately, oil feed and return, and lower turbo prices. This should look a lot better to you. 
-Rich


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## fush23 (May 15, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (eiprich)*

Thats definatly better pricing than before. Comparing this to the atp manifold I would rather have something like the eip manifold, but the atp one comes in cheaper and seems like it would be a stronger piece. Do you have any issues with cracking on the manifold at all? If so what kind of warranty does it have in this case. 
This question comes to mind because I spoke to someone at your company regaurding the 1.8T tubular manifold you have listed since it seemed it would work well on my a2 swapped 1.8T fitment wise. They told me there would be issues with cracking and I would be better off with the cast piece. I decided to attempt to make my own once I heard that hopefully coming in under the 699.00 price in case it decides to crack often, but also having better fitment than the cast manifold. If it works out well it will probablly happen when turbo time comes for the vr6 too.

-jeff


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (fush23)*

Now you are talking!!!! I would almost pay that for the whole thing. They need to hurry and update that site! As for cracking, stainless steel if welded correctly it much better than the ATP one.


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (fush23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fush23* »_Thats definatly better pricing than before. Comparing this to the atp manifold I would rather have something like the eip manifold, but the atp one comes in cheaper and seems like it would be a stronger piece. Do you have any issues with cracking on the manifold at all? If so what kind of warranty does it have in this case. 

The SS Manifold and Dump tube come with a full lifetime warranty. We will repair or replace these parts as long as you own them. The Down pipe also comes with a lifetime warranty except for the SS flex bellow which has a 1 year warranty. The included turbo support bracket significantly reduces stress on the manifold and nearly eliminates the possibility of failure. 

_Quote »_This question comes to mind because I spoke to someone at your company regaurding the 1.8T tubular manifold you have listed since it seemed it would work well on my a2 swapped 1.8T fitment wise. They told me there would be issues with cracking and I would be better off with the cast piece. I decided to attempt to make my own once I heard that hopefully coming in under the 699.00 price in case it decides to crack often, but also having better fitment than the cast manifold. If it works out well it will probablly happen when turbo time comes for the vr6 too.-jeff

Our all SS tubular 1.8t manifold is a short tube design that does not have a huge advantage over the cast unit that we offer. Our tubular unit was built before the cast parts were completed and it also offers better clearance to the fire wall, it was deigned for a 1.8t in a Corrado. If you really need one, we will build it for you and it will also have a lifetime warranty. We will also supply you with a turbo support bracket to minimize the stresses on the manifold itself. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Rich


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## fush23 (May 15, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (eiprich)*

Sounds good. My 1.8T is in a mk2 gti so clearance issues may be a problem. Would there be clearance issues with your cast piece like I have heard the atp manifolds have?


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## blkjettavr6 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (fush23)*

here is mine. And it's for sale


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (blkjettavr6)*

I could use your as a template


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (fush23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fush23* »_Sounds good. My 1.8T is in a mk2 gti so clearance issues may be a problem. Would there be clearance issues with your cast piece like I have heard the atp manifolds have?

I am not sure, call me on Monday and I will ask you to give me a dimension from the head (exh. man. mounting surface) to the firewall. This should help us determine in advance if there will be a problem. (410) 871-0406
-Rich


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## fush23 (May 15, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
I am not sure, call me on Monday and I will ask you to give me a dimension from the head (exh. man. mounting surface) to the firewall. This should help us determine in advance if there will be a problem. (410) 871-0406
-Rich

Engine is out of the car because its getting painted right now. If possible if you could tell me the width of the manifold from the exhaust flange to the turbo flange it should be easy to tell if it fits from the measurements I made when I was going to make my own manifold.


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (fush23)*

IM sent.
-Rich


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (eiprich)*

What size is the pipe that EIP uses? 2" or what?


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JVWGUY2* »_What size is the pipe that EIP uses? 2" or what? 

We use 2x 2" SS mandrel bent primary tubes to a 321 milspec SS merge collector that we build to fit a standard T-4 turbine inlet. This 4" overall exhaust flow then merged to a less than 2.5" opening makes for some extreme velocity. 
-Rich


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (eiprich)*

Thanks for the info!


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

Anyone else out there making custom manifolds? I hope to have a sample of mine pretty soon. Thanks to the guys that are helping me out on this!


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*

If you need a SS t4 flange i have this awesome one i can sell you...


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## GoGotheParrot (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (Gavster)*


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## 130_R (May 24, 2001)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (JVWGUY2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JVWGUY2* »_Anyone else out there making custom manifolds? I hope to have a sample of mine pretty soon. Thanks to the guys that are helping me out on this!

Yeah, I made one a while back like the EIP/Eastside/everyone else using the stock manifolds. Going to be making another pretty soon for a split housing.


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## JVWGUY2 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: Custom VR6 Turbo Manifold?? (130_R)*

Got any pics? What material did you use?


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