# EA113 does anybody really know what's up with the internals?



## jed02gtiguy (Mar 30, 2002)

The best info I can find on the internals of my Golf R engine is this:

Forged pistons (9.8:1)
Stronger con-rods, con-rod bearings, crankcase and main bearings (what does this mean? Still not forged?)


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## sloppy_robby (Jul 28, 2016)

jed02gtiguy said:


> The best info I can find on the internals of my Golf R engine is this:
> 
> Forged pistons (9.8:1)
> Stronger con-rods, con-rod bearings, crankcase and main bearings (what does this mean? Still not forged?)


From what I’ve read the rods are not forged. I think that’s why a lot of people do the drop in rods. Allegedly you can do that and be pretty safe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

jed02gtiguy said:


> The best info I can find on the internals of my Golf R engine is this:
> 
> Forged pistons (9.8:1)
> Stronger con-rods, con-rod bearings, crankcase and main bearings (what does this mean? Still not forged?)


When they say "stronger" they are referring to stronger than the BPY model of FSI in non-R cars. The FSI rods are the weakest part of the motor in terms of power holding but even they are good for between 350ctq-400ctq. There are quite a lot of people who think they are much weaker than that and unfortunately they have spread that misconception far and wide b/c they are the louder crowd then those of us who actually know, from experience, what the FSI rods are capable of. Yours would be capable of a little more - you could probably go as high as 400wtq for a good while but you'd be pushing your luck - so in the interest of being safe I would still consider the maximum for the rods on your R to be around 400ctq. That would be on the riskier side but still safe for a couple years, generally speaking, as long as they are not already pretty fatigued by many miles or hard abuse already and of course as long as your tuner knows what they are doing. If you were to play it safer at 350-370ctq you'd be safe for quite some time. The onset of the torque plays a role in projecting what is safe and what is not too but most turbos that are capable of producing that power don't torque spike immediately enough to be a huge concern if you stay within the limits I've mentioned. 

You only *need* to bother with upgrading the rest of the internals if you plan to go near or above the 500bhp threshold.


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## jed02gtiguy (Mar 30, 2002)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> When they say "stronger" they are referring to stronger than the BPY model of FSI in non-R cars. The FSI rods are the weakest part of the motor in terms of power holding but even they are good for between 350ctq-400ctq. There are quite a lot of people who think they are much weaker than that and unfortunately they have spread that misconception far and wide b/c they are the louder crowd then those of us who actually know, from experience, what the FSI rods are capable of. Yours would be capable of a little more - you could probably go as high as 400wtq for a good while but you'd be pushing your luck - so in the interest of being safe I would still consider the maximum for the rods on your R to be around 400ctq. That would be on the riskier side but still safe for a couple years, generally speaking, as long as they are not already pretty fatigued by many miles or hard abuse already and of course as long as your tuner knows what they are doing. If you were to play it safer at 350-370ctq you'd be safe for quite some time. The onset of the torque plays a role in projecting what is safe and what is not too but most turbos that are capable of producing that power don't torque spike immediately enough to be a huge concern if you stay within the limits I've mentioned.
> 
> You only *need* to bother with upgrading the rest of the internals if you plan to go near or above the 500bhp threshold.


Thanks for the input here. I appreciate it. I am already making 350ctq now at about 400 BHP (dynoed at 355 AWHP) on the stock turbo running 30 PSI on an E50 blend. The goal with the new turbo is about 450 AWHP, I think we can keep the torque around 400. Ultimately, I am going to aim for that 500 BHP with this build and I was hoping to do IE drop in rods and maybe the valve train down the road if I decide to push the RPM. The rods will get in after just a few months for sure.


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## jed02gtiguy (Mar 30, 2002)

jed02gtiguy said:


> Thanks for the input here. I appreciate it. I am already making 350ctq now at about 400 BHP (dynoed at 355 AWHP) on the stock turbo running 30 PSI on an E50 blend. The goal with the new turbo is about 450 AWHP, I think we can keep the torque around 400. Ultimately, I am going to aim for that 500 BHP with this build and I was hoping to do IE drop in rods and maybe the valve train down the road if I decide to push the RPM. The rods will get in after just a few months for sure.


Just to add here, I have learned of 2 FSI MK5 GTI's making 420-440 WHP for over a year with stock internals. Seems like a stretch to me though!


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

jed02gtiguy said:


> Just to add here, I have learned of 2 FSI MK5 GTI's making 420-440 WHP for over a year with stock internals. Seems like a stretch to me though!


Yes considering they'd be making about 420CTQ / 400WTQ they're on the ragged edge of what is safe. The only way they are getting away with that is A) they are on a big enough turbo that the lag is saving their rods; B) they likely don't track those cars because I doubt they'd have made it a year if that included a whole season of track abuse.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

As the original owner of a 2006 GTI (K04’d for the past 2 years) who is preparing to do drop in rods, I can say I have seen too many K04 swapped BPY’s and BPG’s in VWs and Audi’s throw rods over the years to be comfortable sticking with stock rods. Most of these cars were making 330-350 crank ftlbs, albeit at relatively low RPMs.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

With that said, the CDL in the MK6 Golf R has proven pretty strong. I have yet to see one pop on the stock K04.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

SuckSquishBangBlow said:


> As the original owner of a 2006 GTI (K04’d for the past 2 years) who is preparing to do drop in rods, I can say I have seen too many K04 swapped BPY’s and BPG’s in VWs and Audi’s throw rods over the years to be comfortable sticking with stock rods. Most of these cars were making 330-350 crank ftlbs, albeit at relatively low RPMs.


How many is that exactly? Because I've seen a grant total of 0 out of quite a few. As you said, they were making that torque very low and very rapidly, torque onset plays a significant role; however, even that is not enough to explain it fully, I suspect they were also high mileage motors with already fatigued rods.

If you count the almost dozen people I know personally with K04 or BT (with mild tunes) on stock BPY internals for over a couple of years and plenty of abuse, on top of the many more that reputable VW shops and tuners support, there is definitely something to be said with regards to how much the FSI really can handle as long as it is well maintained, not super high mileage, and tuned wisely. It's much more robust than most people think.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, nor that there can't be some outliers, but I don't think that what you've seen is representative of the bigger picture and I think that dropping in rods is an unnecessary expense to go to for a K04 (unless maybe you're planning to squeeze it for all it is worth or add W/M or E to the equation). On the other hand, dropping in rods isn't all that much work so if you can spare the cash then there's not really any other significant reason NOT to do it either.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

These are the ones I remember off the top of my head. 

https://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71860

https://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190416&page=12

https://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196707

https://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193191

https://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201139

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8039714-Bend-rod-on-APR-k04-tune

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/347179-K04-Maintenance-Free <-4 posts down user:Nico

And to be clear, I agree with you that most of the failures can be attributed to overboosting, bad tuning, or high mileage. And you're right, the FSI is a lot stronger than it gets credit for: theres a 8 second mk4 with a stock FSI crank on youtube. But consider that it is almost impossible to find TSIs or Golf Rs throwing rods with K04s, and its safe to assume many of them are also high mileage or running bad tuning, so I think it is fair to say that a K04 is running on the edge of reliability on a BPY. I will be doing drop ins because I'm generally not a gambling man.


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## jed02gtiguy (Mar 30, 2002)

*But have you seen an R throw a rod ever?*

I keep hearing that nobody with an R has ever thrown a stock rod. Maybe because everybody that does a stage 3 buys rods, IDK?


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

For a little while I was looking at buying a set of Golf R rods and pistons and I did find 2 or 3 people selling sets because they went BT, so yes, there are Golf R owners taking that precaution.

The only engine failure I have seen on a MK6 Golf R was a cracked piston, which is usually caused by tuning/knock or the rare casting defect.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

SuckSquishBangBlow said:


> These are the ones I remember off the top of my head.
> 
> https://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71860
> 
> ...


I respect and understand your decision to put the rods in, there's no reason not too aside from $$, and to be fair it's still smarter to do so than not to either way. That said, I still technically can't agree with you on the rest and those links above really don't make your case in my opinion; half of them weren't even boosting when it happened and the other ones that didn't specify what exactly they were doing at the time - in terms of how they were driving - did still specify that they had very high mileage (like the guy with 225K) or that they had pretty mild tunes with low boost and torque on their K04. ALL of that leads me to conclude that in all of those cases it was either bad tuning, bad maintenance, bad luck, a tired motor, or some combination of each. None of those instances I just read scream to me that an FSI with great maintenance, fairly low-to-mid range miles, and proper tuning, is still in danger of bending a rod on a K04.

I am currently making 380ctq @ 24PSI on a GTX2867R which reaches full spool around 4K RPMs (4.2K at the latest depending on when I go WOT) on completely stock internals, just shy of 100K miles. I've been running this setup for a year and before that I was stage 2+ for 3 years (40K miles). I have abused it with this BT setup on the street, on the track, and I've even semi-launched which I was avoiding for awhile but finally got up the balls to do when my curiosity of my 0-60 time got the best of me (4.3s with A/S tires and a boatload of traction problems, if you were curious too lol). I say I "semi-launched" it b/c I will admit I am too nervous to full on dump the clutch with boost built up, so it was more of a very aggressive start then a lunch per se. I will also admit that the fact that the tires were not up to the task and did spin a lot probably factors into what I got away with. If I were to do a full launch with boost built on my track tires or especially on a prepped surface at the strip there's a high chance I'd bend a rod; if not the first time it'd happen eventually (and probably not too many times after).

I also would like to point out that on one occasion several months ago when I was racing a CTSV on an open road I suddenly had a wastegate failure that caused the wastegate to stick shut; obviously I overboosted. I overboosted to somewhere over 30 PSI for a couple seconds before I realized something was amiss and let off the throttle. For the brief few seconds I was overboosting I most definitely was making much more than 400WTQ (which is considered the absolute upper threshold of safe on the BPY). Granted my tune's fueling tables were not setup for that boost so I also went lean and therefore didn't reap the full benefit of that boost but I was still definitely crossing safety thresholds by some margin and also lean at the same time; 2 recipes for disaster... my engine didn't give a damn. I think that if it can survive brief but very extreme instances like that without incident, and the other abuse I've put it through, that's a pretty good measuring stick that the BPY can handle whatever a K04 has to throw at it on a regular basis if we rule out some of those other concerns factors we've discussed like tuning, etc.

Anyway... I know that was anecdotal and is not valid to generalize to everyone else BUT I do believe that it demonstrates what a well maintained, properly looked after, properly setup/tune BPY can handle and, conversely, I think it makes a good case for why what happened to those guys you referenced was because of factors that don't really go to the BPY rods level of reliability.




> But consider that it is almost impossible to find TSIs or Golf Rs throwing rods with K04s, and its safe to assume many of them are also high mileage or running bad tuning, so I think it is fair to say that a K04 is running on the edge of reliability on a BPY.


I'll totally agree to all of that though. The rods on the Mk6 R and especially on the TSI platforms have enough extra robustness that they have a lot of cushion for even the fatigue of mileage and tuning issues. I know a handful of guys with BT TSIs making around 450WTQ on stock internals and abusing them too (for a couple years now). Both the FSI and TSI platforms really are a hell of a lot more capable than I think most people think.

Now, all that being said, I do NOT think my car is immortal. In fact, don't be surprised if my one of my build thread posts in the next few months is about bending a rod because while I've gotten away with what I have so far I am only 50/50 confident on whether I'm going to get through this next track season without issue. I'm willing to gamble on it though and I'm ready to deal with the outcome if it goes poorly. Just an excuse to build it and crank up the tune lol.


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## jed02gtiguy (Mar 30, 2002)

*Australian Golf R*



SuckSquishBangBlow said:


> For a little while I was looking at buying a set of Golf R rods and pistons and I did find 2 or 3 people selling sets because they went BT, so yes, there are Golf R owners taking that precaution.
> 
> The only engine failure I have seen on a MK6 Golf R was a cracked piston, which is usually caused by tuning/knock or the rare casting defect.


I found an Australian guy with an MK6R running stock everything and making 460 HP on a hub dyno. I don't really know how that works exactly, but he was also making nearly 500 FTLBS of torque at the wheels as well. He was running the R in FWD mode. He ran this turbo and full stock setup for 2.5 years and beat the snot out of it. He basically said, "somebody needed to find what the limits of the R engine are." Well, he never did. He continued to push the car until finally swapping a new turbo on. He then swapped rods and actually bent the aftermarket Carrillo rods.

Ultimately, this is where he was prior to going Aftermarket internals and the internals were pristine when he pulled them.Search around for Hurdy Golf R and you will find him. 

DSG
Stock internals
Stock clutch (dsg) 
500whp
11.08 quarter mile


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

jed02gtiguy said:


> I found an Australian guy with an MK6R running stock everything and making 460 HP on a hub dyno. I don't really know how that works exactly, but he was also making nearly 500 FTLBS of torque at the wheels as well. He was running the R in FWD mode. He ran this turbo and full stock setup for 2.5 years and beat the snot out of it. He basically said, "somebody needed to find what the limits of the R engine are." Well, he never did. He continued to push the car until finally swapping a new turbo on. He then swapped rods and actually bent the aftermarket Carrillo rods.
> 
> Ultimately, this is where he was prior to going Aftermarket internals and the internals were pristine when he pulled them.Search around for Hurdy Golf R and you will find him.
> 
> ...



That sounds pretty extreme given that amount of torque. In fact, come to think of it, I don't know of any BT that makes that much more torque than HP. Usually when you get into BT land the HP tends to outreach the torque not the other way around. Also even hub dynos can give skewed numbers. So I can't say I'm not a tad skeptical, but I'll leave that aside because I agree with the overall point... the stock motor is significantly more robust than people think and the limits may even be further than most of risk-takers like me think they are. I'll say this: I plan to go HARD at the track this coming season and if my motor survives I'll be pretty convinced that the limits are definitely over the 400wtq mark for a properly cared for and tuned setup.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> That sounds pretty extreme given that amount of torque. In fact, come to think of it, I don't know of any BT that makes that much more torque than HP. Usually when you get into BT land the HP tends to outreach the torque not the other way around. Also even hub dynos can give skewed numbers. So I can't say I'm not a tad skeptical, but I'll leave that aside because I agree with the overall point... the stock motor is significantly more robust than people think and the limits may even be further than most of risk-takers like me think they are. I'll say this: I plan to go HARD at the track this coming season and if my motor survives I'll be pretty convinced that the limits are definitely over the 400wtq mark for a properly cared for and tuned setup.


Do you still have your balance shafts, and if so have you considered disabling them for track duty?

I found it telling that Honda removed the balance shafts from the new Civic Type R. The regular Honda 2.0T balance shafts are very similar to the 2.0TFSI (integrated into oil pump module) and Honda didn’t consider them reliable for track use.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

SuckSquishBangBlow said:


> Do you still have your balance shafts, and if so have you considered disabling them for track duty?
> 
> I found it telling that Honda removed the balance shafts from the new Civic Type R. The regular Honda 2.0T balance shafts are very similar to the 2.0TFSI (integrated into oil pump module) and Honda didn’t consider them reliable for track use.



Disabling the balance shafts is definitely a good idea for track-duty but, speaking for the VW FSI unit at least, it isn't exactly about how much power you're making or even necessarily about how much you abuse the car per se. While those things certainly don't help they are in more of an indirect relationship to the main killers. There are 2 major risk factors for the oil pump/balance shaft integrated unit:


1) The balance shafts rotate at twice the RPM of the crankshaft and the balance shaft assembly does not tolerate greater than 14K RPM (7K engine RPM) very well; past this point the bearings in the balance shafts are at risk of failing which will then cause the shafts to seize. Also the sprocket that is connected to the crankshaft via chain and drives the balance shafts is liable to sheer off. If either of these things happen, the oil pump will no longer function. These things are NOT going to happen the very first time the engine exceeds 7K RPM. It’s not THAT risky. I have done plenty of pulls over 7K RPM (my car redlines at 7.4K RPMs with current tuning) from BEFORE I deleted my balance shafts. It might not even happen after a 100 times. You can't really put a number on it, but it is increasingly likely with that kind of driving. 


2) The other major cause of balance shaft failure is poor maintenance. Bad oil change intervals (OCIs), bad oil, low oil level, low oil pressure, etc. It all takes a toll on the pump hard. I strongly believe, for good reason, that most premature failures of the balance shafts that were NOT due to #1 above are due to maintenance oversights. I think that is the main reason behind the somewhat prevalent oil pump/balance shaft assembly failures that give it a bad rap; while the balance shaft bearings and sprocket is a weakpoint I haven't seen compelling evidence to believe that there is an inherent mechanical problem that is a ticking time-bomb without being aggravated by one of the above two situations.




*Reasons to delete / methods to delete:*


That said, obviously if your tuning allows you to rev that high then you may consider the balance shaft “delete”. There are several different methods. The simplest (free) method is cutting ONE (the smallest) gear inside the unit that connects the balance shafts to the main gear/shaft which is connected to the oil pump driving sprocket. By doing so, the balance shafts no longer spin. They become, effectively, dead weight inside the pump and no longer pose any threat to the pump's operation. They also free-up rotational weight on the crankshaft which lets the engine rev more quickly. 


Another option is to remove the shafts and weights from the unit entirely. This has the additional benefit of increasing oil capacity which can help against oil starvation during the kind of hard right-hand cornering you'd do at a race track) and also may help with oil temps slightly. BUT removing them entirely is much more difficult to do DIY. There is a company (iABED) that offers this service but it is expensive. It is much easier to cut the gear as described previously. It’s a free mod if you have the tools and capability. However, it’ll wind up costing you a $1500 oil pump if you screw up.


The safest and reversible option is the VIS “freewheel” which replaces the sprocket for the balance shafts with a freewheeling sprocket that will not allow the balance shafts to spin. No cutting required. The downside to this mod is that you are then relying on the VIS sprocket's own bearing to not fail because if its bearing fails it won’t be a freewheel anymore… it will start spinning the balance shafts and the risk of balance shaft failure will return. You’d have no way of knowing except feeling the additional rotational weight on the crankshaft return which should cause noticeable slowness in engine revs again. Well that and also the balance shafts would start balancing out engine vibration again which should be very noticeable. So technically and remotely attuned owner/driver would notice something is up with their VIS freewheel if it's bearing failed. I can't vouch for said product but since it is designed specifically for this purpose and probably for rotational speed well beyond what it actually sees, I imagine it has a low likelihood of failure. 


Lastly there is the overrated and needless 1.8T oil pump conversion which I bring up ONLY to tell you NOT to do it! It is a cash grab idea that USP or some other vendor came up with. The only thing productive about that pump swap IS deleting the balance shafts and that can be done on the stock pump with the same effect. The 1.8T oil pump conversion can contribute to slightly suboptimal oil pressures. It was, after all designed, for a motor that has a few differences than its newer, larger 2.0T rendition. I’m not talking majorly different oil pressures (only say ~5PSI less) so this isn’t enough to cause immediate issues, or even short-term issues, but in the long-term suboptimal oil pressure can have only one effect; increased engine wear and shortened longevity of engine internals. Impossible to predict at what rate or how long the wear differences will take to add up to anything noticeably impactful but the moral of the story is that if you want to keep your VW for as long as you possibly can then you won’t do the 1.8T oil pump conversion. And why would you since you can do the balance shaft delete for less.



*
Reasons NOT to delete:*


Even though I made it clear that people who maintain their vehicle properly and who do not have a rev limit over 7K RPM are at very low risk for balance shaft failure, it probably still sounds like a nice idea to delete them anyway based on the benefits I described above. Well, not necessarily… I should call out the fact that those balance shafts DO serve an important function. They aren’t just there for their own good. They are there to keep the engine running quieter and smoother with decreased engine harmonics and vibrations. 


The way the balance shafts work is by canceling out the first-order vibrations from the asymmetrical I4 engine’s cylinder firing order which do not inherently cancel themselves out like, for example, V engines. Some people think that the decrease in vibrations allowed for by the balance shafts is because they are balanced with the rotating assembly at time of engine manufacture and counterbalance the crankshafts weight… that is not true, technically speaking, which consequently means the engine does NOT need to be re-balanced after they are deleted. So it doesn't have anything to do with weight. Rather, the reason the balance shafts cancel first-order vibrations is because they actually create their own second-order vibrations in the opposite direction. One balance shaft spins opposite the direction of the crankshaft to physically cancel out the directional vibrations from the engine and then the other balance shaft spins opposite that first balance shaft to cancel that shaft out. The net result is not complete vibration reduction since there are not additional shafts to keep cancelling each previous shaft and sequentially reduce vibration down to effectively nothing... but the result is still substantially reduced vibration overall. 


Naturally, then, the end result of “deleting” them is huuugely increased engine vibration and a much angrier sounding engine. At certain RPM it sounds somewhat close to the Audi 5-cylinders. That might sound cool but that’s not the point; the point is it sounds like an “angrier” engine because IT IS an angrier engine. It’s angry because it’s producing a ****load of vibration and under more strain. Reducing vibrations is important for long term engine health and increasing them has the opposite effect. Trust me, when these balance shafts are deleted engine vibrations increase dramatically and not only will this make driving less comfortable it will also have a long-term impact on reliability of certain parts. Do NOT underestimate the impact of significant vibrations. They can do everything from loosen bolts over time, cause weaker materials like plastic more risk of cracking, cause seals/gaskets to fail earlier than normal, wear out harmonic balancers faster, prematurely destroy sensitive electronics, and increase strain on engine internals. Vibrations are the #2 killer for track/race cars (behind the #1 which is heat). Every Spring I thoroughly inspect everything on my car and torque check every critical bolt on my car, special attention to those that bolt in anything connected to or near the engine, precisely because I have such ridiculously stiff mounts and no balance shafts. God forbid my engine or trans mount bolts work themselves loose and I go out to the track that way…


So I urge folks to really weigh-up whether you stand to benefit more from removing them than you do by keeping them AND to assess their risk-factor in keeping them, based on the info I provided. Basically, with the above info in mind, do you stand to benefit more in the short-term by deleting them for specific reasons mentioned or not? If not, then the more long-term health of the engine dictates you keep them.


*Oil Pump Before/After Delete:*



















*Other Considerations:*

The above takes care of all subjects related to the balance shaft failure risks and deletion methods, etc. Now I should address the only other theoretical risk factors with the factory pump. These are if the sprockets themselves fail or if the tensioner wears out and the chain driving the 2 sprockets, and thus everything else, develops too much slack and starts slipping, etc.

The only way the sprockets could fail is if the teeth get rounded out or the bolts securing them were to shear. You might hear reports of this but I VERY seriously doubt that this happens on its own, even for the most modified setups, as long as everything else is functioning correctly. If the shafts are spinning with no resistance and the chain is tight/tensioner in good shape there is virtually no reason that these simple sprockets should ever fail. They are basically just along for the ride with the chain. I think any reports of sprocket failure are mis-attributed... I strongly suspect that if they do ever fail it is a direct result of balance shaft failure itself or chain tensioner wear/chain slack leading to chewed up teeth. These people then pull the pump and deduce that the sprocket caused the failure because it was chewed up or sheared off (when in reality it was the other way around and the sprocket suffered the consequences of a balance shaft or chain tensioner issue).

Moral of the story: if you "delete" the balance shafts and you make sure your chain is very tight when you are in there, then you have insured this oil pump will pretty much never fail in and of itself. With proper maintenance (proper oil and oil change intervals) throughout the life of the car these particular tensioners are unlikely to wear to that degree as they are pretty durable, but it is still always smart to check on them and maybe replace them on higher mileage motors if you are already in there for a pump "delete" or have general concerns. Keep in mind if you have a chain slack issue you should hear it from down there.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

For what its worth, I just picked up a good used set of MK6 Golf R rods / pistons for cheap and will be installing them in my GTI sometime this summer with new bearings and rings. My goal with this is to swap out the stock rods for something better matched to my K04 as well as dropping the CR to 9.8:1 which should reduce/eliminate timing pull. Plus I'm always looking for an excuse to wrench. I'm also going to give the balance shafts a good looking over and will cut the gear if they don't look perfect.

I'll update this thread with results.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

SuckSquishBangBlow said:


> For what its worth, I just picked up a good used set of MK6 Golf R rods / pistons for cheap and will be installing them in my GTI sometime this summer with new bearings and rings. My goal with this is to swap out the stock rods for something better matched to my K04 as well as dropping the CR to 9.8:1 which should reduce/eliminate timing pull. Plus I'm always looking for an excuse to wrench. I'm also going to give the balance shafts a good looking over and will cut the gear if they don't look perfect.
> 
> I'll update this thread with results.



Curious if you got around to this yet?


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> Curious if you got around to this yet?


Just got it running again yesterday. Here are some pics of the fun and some comparisons between the Golf R and GTI internals:

Everything came apart without incident. The engine is really clean inside and the rod bearings were in great shape for 118K miles:



















The Golf R rods have larger bolts and are 12.4% heavier, 17.5% wider web and 19.4% wider flange relative to the GTI rods. The Golf R rod bearings are also moly/graphite coated unlike the plain metal GTI bearings (not pictured):




























The Golf R pistons are similar to the GTI pistons aside from the lower CR crown and have a rectangular face internal bevel top compression ring, unlike the GTI, which is supposed to be better for lots of boost.










Cheap Amazon ring pliers an compressor worked great:



















I will be breaking the motor in using the IE guidelines and once I can give it full boost I'll update with logs.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Good info and a job well done! Looking forward to seeing some data after break-in phase!


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

jed02gtiguy said:


> I found an Australian guy with an MK6R running stock everything and making 460 HP on a hub dyno. I don't really know how that works exactly, but he was also making nearly 500 FTLBS of torque at the wheels as well. He was running the R in FWD mode. He ran this turbo and full stock setup for 2.5 years and beat the snot out of it. He basically said, "somebody needed to find what the limits of the R engine are." Well, he never did. He continued to push the car until finally swapping a new turbo on. He then swapped rods and actually bent the aftermarket Carrillo rods.
> 
> Ultimately, this is where he was prior to going Aftermarket internals and the internals were pristine when he pulled them.Search around for Hurdy Golf R and you will find him.
> 
> ...


I am familiar with John "Hurdy" as I've been on the UK forum(he's from Yorkshire UK) for years and he and I have discussed a bit regarding mine and his builds; with him helping me more than the other way around...mostly regarding the next chapter I want to take mine from its current K04 setup. He was aiming to get his Golf R into the 10's. This is his build: https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/2422-hurdys-r-project-thread/

He was always on to sticking with oem bits for the purpose to show they are strong but also unnecessary to go aftermarket with most bits. I believe he now wishes he had stuck with oem rods in his MK6 Golf R.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> That sounds pretty extreme given that amount of torque. In fact, come to think of it, I don't know of any BT that makes that much more torque than HP.


This may be due to his GIAC tuning. My GIAC-K04 High Output tune is when at best on race fuel; 340ish BHP and 363 lb*ft. This is more K04 torque than you see with other tuners shelf-K04 files for the MK5's FSI. Perhaps it is something else or the combination of bits in his build...but his was a custom Stage 3 tune by GIAC and also a mode for race fuel with WMI.

So, are you not also changing the camshafts given that you are also swapping the pistons?
For example; exhaust cam for...
GTI: 06F 109 102 E
Golf R: 06F 109 102 F

...and intake camshaft
GTI: 06F 109 101 J
Golf R: 06F 109 101 K

...IIRC, even the timing chain and the valves vary between the R and GTI. With that said, I would want to stick with just a rod upgrade rather than changing pistons without all of the other bits of the Golf R. I've been planning to just get a Golf R long block whenever my engine is in need of a massive rescue.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

ROH ECHT said:


> This may be due to his GIAC tuning. My GIAC-K04 High Output tune is when at best on race fuel; 340ish BHP and 363 lb*ft. This is more K04 torque than you see with other tuners shelf-K04 files for the MK5's FSI. Perhaps it is something else or the combination of bits in his build...but his was a custom Stage 3 tune by GIAC and also a mode for race fuel with WMI.
> 
> So, are you not also changing the camshafts given that you are also swapping the pistons?
> For example; exhaust cam for...
> ...


I don't plan on putting in CRZA cams. Arin at APR put them in his K04 GTI and said it made minimal gains, even when APR calibrated for them.

I did a lot of research on p/n differences between the CRZA and BPY leading up to this swap. The timing components are the same, as are the radiator,, valves, crank, block, oil pump, HPFP etc. The parts that are unique in the CRZA, as far as I can tell, are the head, turbo, injectors, cams, pistons, rods, thermostat, intercooler, boost sensor and parts related too the DV locaiton.

I drove the car a lot this weekend after changing out the break in oil and it feels great. No codes and no hiccups. I did the first few WOT pulls today and it felt strong. I'll post some comparison logs soon.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Hi guys,

I'm always dedicated to providing accurate and comprehensive information wherever and whenever I can and have come to learn even more about the balance shafts and balance shaft delete details since I posted on this thread last year. While my posts were, ultimately, accurate and contained the pertinent information to get the points across, they were NOT as comprehensive as they could have been. So I just wanted to let folks that are on this thread know that I have updated post #17 with more technical detail that I have learned. Even if it is of little use to those of you who are subscribed to this thread I still thought it would be a good idea to update it for future readers.

Cheers!


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## thegave (Dec 22, 2008)

I love reading your posts, TH. Thanks for the update, I've always been curious about the deal with balance shaft deletes.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

thegave said:


> I love reading your posts, TH. Thanks for the update, I've always been curious about the deal with balance shaft deletes.


Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! I should have a very meaty post coming to my build thread sooner or later about all the stuff I've done since November 2019 in prep for this Summer track stuff. Sadly I've been delayed much more than I'd like because it turns out I'm just as busy, if not more so, during this whole COVID outbreak/quarantine situation. Plus since track events are postponed for awhile it kinda gives me less of a time-box to do it in lol.

Stay tuned though! And stay safe


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## Teh_Chris_696 (Feb 27, 2014)

Threadjacking here a bit as you all seem quite informed and helpful.

I am installing a K04 on my ‘07 GTI with 169,000 miles on it since my original K03 is failing and I thought why not upgrade at the same time. 

I have some concerns about how well my entirely stock, high mileage BPY engine will handle this upgrade.. especially after reading the posts in this thread. 

What kind of inspections / maintenance / upgrades should I be doing while installing the K04 to ensure the engine will survive?

I won’t be tracking the car, just the occasional spirited drive/freeway on-ramp pull.

My experience level:
Overly confident home garage mechanic by hobby
Commonly take on projects that are significantly more daunting than I initially thought they would be (case and point here..) but I take my time and make sure everything is done as properly as I can 
No prior experience with eurodyne maestro.
Moderate experience with VCDS. 

Existing mods / maintenance highlights:
GIAC Stage 1 tune
3 inch euro jet cold air intake
Latest revision PCV and rear PCV hose
Latest revision Diverter valve with GFB DV+
New hitachi HPFP
HPFP cam follower inspected frequently
Analogue boost gauge
Oil change every 5k miles or less. 
DSG fluid and filter changed at 145k
Timing belt + tensioners, water pump, and idlers replaced at 168k
Replaced valve cover and gasket at 166k
Flushed coolant recently
Replaced vacuum pump
Carbon buildup cleaned sometime in the past 70k or so. 

New mods happening during turbo swap:
USP Motorsports downpipe with high flow cat, stock cat back. 
Autotech HPFP upgrade
Shuenk K04+
New exhaust manifold/downpipe gaskets + hardware
Eurodyne Maestro software - already flashed stage 1 base file with no issues and it ran about the same as my GIAC stage 1. Will be running K04 with stock injectors base file.

I have some maestro log files I can upload from stage 1 on my k03 with a crack in the exhaust manifold if anyone is interested. 

Right now I’ve got lots of things removed and am working on removing the stock downpipe and turbo, it’s a great opportunity to tear the engine apart to check things out if that’s a good idea, I just don’t know what to check or how to check it.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Teh_Chris_696 said:


> Threadjacking here a bit as you all seem quite informed and helpful.
> 
> I am installing a K04 on my ‘07 GTI with 169,000 miles on it since my original K03 is failing and I thought why not upgrade at the same time.
> 
> ...




*Inspections / maintenance recommendations:*

I may have missed it while I skimmed over your post but it seems you didn't mention the cam timing chain/tensioner when you mentioned the timing belt, etc. If you have not replaced the cam timing chain tensioner I would definitely recommend that you do . I can link you to more info from other posts I've made on this subject if you need elaboration and have not heard of this potential failure point which is only a little less insidious than the cam follower issue itself.

As for pre-K04 inspection items... Compressions and leakdown test, as well as oil pressure test. Compression test should show bare minimum 150psi on each cylinder with less than 5psi variance between them all. That is the absolute minimum standard. If any less then your engine is gonna need some head work sooner than later and the increased cylinder pressures and heat you'll have on K04 will only expedite that. Optimal spec is around 180psi on all 4 cylinders. That's indicative of an engine in very good condition. As long as the compression test results in over 150-160psi and ALL 4 cylinders have the same result then I would be pretty happy. The consistency across cylinders is more important than the actual pressure reading although the closer it is to 180psi the better. If it doesn't look too good then with a cold and dry test (cold engine and no oil in the cylinders) then you can try adding a very small amount of oil (like just a few drops). If that doesn't improve things you can try doing a warm compression test after engine has been run awhile, but more than likely at this point you'll want to move on to the leakdown test which will probably tell you more. Leakdown test should show between 10-20% pressure drop at most. 10% is pretty excellent, over 20% and beyond is definitely bad news. Oil pressure should be assessed according to the following specs: range for normal operating temp (NOT) @ idle is 17-30psi & the range for NOT @ 2k rev is 39-65psi. If you need more elaboration on how to run that test I can provide.

If you run those tests and things look good that indicates a pretty healthy motor. That combined with a good history of maintenance as you seem to have indicated would make me fairly confident in the motors ability to handle the K04 turbo for a while given the way you have described you will drive it, provided that the tuning is very good (because tuning can make or brake the safety of a setup more so than most realize). If that all checks out you shouldn't be worried. I stand by everything I said earlier in this thread shooting down the allegations that K04 turbos blow up these motors even if said motors are perfectly maintained, healthy, and properly tuned for. I have way to much personal experience, aggregated experience from friends/associates with very high end builds, and over all knowledge about these applications that all fly in the face of the idea that the K04 is so dangerous.



*Other recommendations*

1) Use VIS HPFP internals. They are around the same price as Autotech as far as I recall and MUCH better. Allow for higher flow and also higher quality/more reliable.
2) I'd also general recommend a used oil analysis from Blackstone labs to see how the engine is wearing.
3) May be too late but you might want to reconsider Eurodyne, especially if you don't have an extremely competent tuner who's very good with Eurodyne specifically lined up to tune with it. Otherwise you're not gonna get all that great of a tune. Eurodyne is pretty overrated. Not bad, just not that great. In fact, custom tuning as a whole is pretty overrated for a lot of applications out there. I have a VERY detailed write-up on tuning subjects (which entails the subject of custom tuning and Eurodyne) that I can send you if you will like to read more. There are also threads like this: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9275547-2013-GLI-Big-Turbo-Eurodyne-Maestro-7
4) I'd stick to a genuine Borg Warner K04 if the greatest longevity and quality is of high importance to you. If you don't plan to have the car all that much longer given its high mileage and just want to have some fun for a few more years the Shuenk should be sufficient. Hopefully the exhaust manifold and hot-side are more reliable than most cheaper turbo replicas out there that I've seen crack many times from the high heat that results from pushing K04 and K04 hybrid turbos well past their efficiency range (as most tunes do). At least you're not getting a Frankenturbo lol.


*Question:*

What has you so convinced your stock turbo is dying? Not that it would be out of the norm with so many miles on it but it is also true that many people assume the turbo is failing due to reasons that actually have other, less serious causes. What makes you so sure?


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## Teh_Chris_696 (Feb 27, 2014)

thanks for your thorough and quick reply!

to address a few points you made:
I have not done the cam timing chain/tensioner and will add that to the todo list immediately.
will also get tools ordered for compression/leakdown/oil pressure tests, if you have any recommendations for those, I'm all ears. - unfortunately I have already drained my oil pre-turbo swap and will need to wait until I get the new turbo installed and oil added before I can do the compression/leak down tests.
I do not have a tuner as of now, I was planning on using the base files in maestro and trying to fine tune myself, though I am open to working with a tuner remotely given its not cost prohibitive. - I see now after skimming your build thread that the K04 stock injector base file is not likely as good a starting point as I thought it would be.. I will definitely be doing some logging at idle with the car still on jackstands once the K04 is installed to ensure things are safe.

I forgot to mention I actually already collected a sample for blackstone labs just need to send it in, I will post those results here when that time comes.
unfortunately the ship has already sailed on HPFP upgrade, tuning software, and Turbo.. already bought them all. and already installed the HPFP upgrade.
I plan on keeping this car until a cost prohibitive failure occurs, anything over like 5k to fix and getting a new/used car will be on my mind, though swapping in a new engine is always a consideration, I love this car and not having a monthly payment.

My stock turbo has a crack on the exhaust manifold side, right where it connects to the turbo.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Teh_Chris_696 said:


> thanks for your thorough and quick reply!
> 
> to address a few points you made:
> I have not done the cam timing chain/tensioner and will add that to the todo list immediately.
> ...




I can point you to some resources and give tips on the cam chain tensioner job if you like. As for the compression/leakdown tests, the tools and test procedures are pretty straightforward (I did add add a little more detail regarding them in an edit to the previous post I made if you want to reread) but it's mainly stuff that any DIY material out there should cover. For the oil pressure test, the link below is to the gauge I used to do mine (before I put a permanent gauge pod inside the car to monitor it any time). It's a bit of a PITA to get the oil pressure sender out of its location (at the top of the oil filter housing assembly - near where the front PCV breather tube goes down to) and it's even more of a PITA to describe exactly how to do it... it's just the kind of thing you need to feel out once you know where it is. It's entirely do-able just by taking the engine cover and intake off the car though. Don't be fooled by people claiming you need to remove the intake manifold or the whole bumper. It's not true. Just need the right pick to get the connector of the stock pressure sender and the right ratchet extensions to get the sender itself out. The most difficult part is you have to do it basically all by feel because it is very hard to see what you're doing in this spot lol.

https://www.partsplaceinc.com/vw-oil-pressure-tester-18932.html


As for tuning... tuning is a funny and paradoxical thing in that it is both not really that complicated but also really complicated depending on how you look at it. Eurodyne Maestro is pretty watered down as far as tuning suites go, to be approachable for the average end-user, but yet it will still take a significant amount of time, and with no small amount of risk, to produce a good result from it. In most cases, it will still be far from an excellent or very refined tune. It's just facts. The only thing that could change that is if you have a VERY good tuner who is very proficient with Eurodyne do the tuning for you but that's expensive. There are a lot of tuners that pretend to be "that" but are not and typically what they charge is semi-indicative of this because a real good, proper custom tune requires quite a bit of time on both street and dyno and you pay a lot for that. Eurodyne and custom tuning in general are greatly overrated and misunderstood by the masses in this community and while they have their place with more one-off builds they are a waste of time for the standard K04 setup. I actually have a significantly revised on even more informative write-up on those subjects and much more that I am planning to update by build thread with soon. If you would like to read it now I can send it to you ahead of time. It will elaborate on the things I've hinted at above and more.

For you specific situation, you mentioned trying a stock injector file and that made me realize I don't see injectors on your list of upgrades with this K04... so then you are really planning to try to run the K04 turbo on stock FSI injectors? I STRONGLY discourage this! That, combined with your interest in tuning yourself which is a trial-and-error heavy process, do not mix well at all. Both are risks in an of themselves but adding them together means you'll be at greater risk of running dangerously lean at some point. The K04 should not be run on stock FSI injectors no matter what certain companies try to claim. The TSI injectors can easily get away with the K04 and even mild "big" turbos... the FSI injectors absolutely cannot.

If the ship has sailed on the rest of that stuff I brought up then fair enough. If I can be of any assistance with any of that stuff later or regarding your UOA from blackstone let me know.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

*On the original topic... FYI to anyone still monitoring this thread regarding balance shaft delete related info, I had some additional questions come to me via DM so I updated post #17 with even further info as well as 2 pictures with explanations and pointers to all the important parts of the oil pump/balance shaft assembly. The pictures are before/after pictures of my own balance shaft delete (I opted for the free DIY method of deleting the secondary gear that connects the balance shafts to the main rotating assembly/oil pump).

I hope these help to visualize what I had previously only explained somewhat with words... I think at this point I might just take that same post and create a separate thread so it is more easy for people to find*


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## Teh_Chris_696 (Feb 27, 2014)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> I can point you to some resources and give tips on the cam chain tensioner job if you like. As for the compression/leakdown tests, the tools and test procedures are pretty straightforward (I did add add a little more detail regarding them in an edit to the previous post I made if you want to reread) but it's mainly stuff that any DIY material out there should cover. For the oil pressure test, the link below is to the gauge I used to do mine (before I put a permanent gauge pod inside the car to monitor it any time). It's a bit of a PITA to get the oil pressure sender out of its location (at the top of the oil filter housing assembly - near where the front PCV breather tube goes down to) and it's even more of a PITA to describe exactly how to do it... it's just the kind of thing you need to feel out once you know where it is. It's entirely do-able just by taking the engine cover and intake off the car though. Don't be fooled by people claiming you need to remove the intake manifold or the whole bumper. It's not true. Just need the right pick to get the connector of the stock pressure sender and the right ratchet extensions to get the sender itself out. The most difficult part is you have to do it basically all by feel because it is very hard to see what you're doing in this spot lol.
> 
> https://www.partsplaceinc.com/vw-oil-pressure-tester-18932.html
> 
> ...



I want to let you know, you have provoked significant thought and reflection on what I am doing here.. I saw my failed factory turbo as an opportunity to go K04 and set out to do so as cheaply and quickly as possible. You've helped me come to the realization that is a terrible idea if I want to continue enjoying this car for any reasonable amount of time.
The mission is now to ensure this engine is in tip top shape and ready to last as long as possible before I complete this K04 install.

Right now while I have everything a bit torn apart is a great opportunity to really work things over to ensure everything is in top working order (if you or anyone have any guidance or suggestions on what to inspect/repair/replace I would love to hear it).

I've done a bit of research on the cam chain tensioner job and it seems manageable, will be ordering parts/polydrive socket for that soon.
I think I understand how to do the compression/leakdown tests (unsure if its 5 cranks or 10 for compression though) but I want to make sure I understand what you are saying when you refer to a cold and dry test.. I have *no oil or coolant in the system at all right now* as I drained it prior to removing the factory turbo, surely I shouldn't go cranking the engine over in this state, right? Are you saying no oil as in no oil added to the cylinder prior to the test or no oil in the system at all?
As for the Oil pressure test, when the time for that comes can I use VCDS/other OBD diag tools to read the pressure reported by the oil pressure sender or is it imperative that I use an analogue gauge?

Regarding injectors: Do you recommend mk6R injectors or S3 injectors? There is a base file in maestro for S3 injectors but it looks like mk6R injectors are a bit cheaper... What else should I do while I have the intake manifold off for that job?

I should mention I am also planning to use the stock intercooler for now at least, as I understand the only real drawback to that is premature heat-soak which isn't really a concern since I wont be doing pull after pull.

I acknowledge I may have made a poor decision with Maestro but I have to at least give it a shot since I already bought it. I read your write up on shelf vs custom tunes and you make very valid points.

Sorry for the millions of questions and hijacking this thread so much, if you would like me to start my own build help thread please let me know and I will gladly do so.

Thank you so much for all your time and guidance, I appreciate it immensely.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

*I'll address all these questions and then if there is anything leftover that you want to discuss I suggest creating a separate thread or PMing me, whichever you prefer.*




> The mission is now to ensure this engine is in tip top shape and ready to last as long as possible before I complete this K04 install.


Good that is the wise approach



> Right now while I have everything a bit torn apart is a great opportunity to really work things over to ensure everything is in top working order (if you or anyone have any guidance or suggestions on what to inspect/repair/replace I would love to hear it).


Not really, it seems you've taken care of the big stuff minus the cam chain tensioner, etc. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to drop the oil pan and check it for any sludge as well as the oil pickup screen for any sludge/debris of any kind and oil pump chain/tensioner/sprockets. Those are the only other major things off the top of my head, assuming you have a revision B or J intake camshaft which you probably do since it is an 07).



> I've done a bit of research on the cam chain tensioner job and it seems manageable, will be ordering parts/polydrive socket for that soon.


Yeah it's not all that bad besides the exhaust cam adjuster bolt that likes to shear and the fact that purportedly sometimes even with the OEM cam locking tool the cam timing can wind up getting off by 1 tooth. I personally have never had this issue while using the OEM locking tool. I think it is likely the people that have this issue did not use the OEM tool but I think at least some people have sworn to me they did and it still allowed the timing to slip a tad. So I generally recommend people to use any kind of pliable material to wrap around the locking tool or wedge in between it an the cams after it is placed. Obviously it needs to be thin and pliable so as not to scratch anything. You also obviously don't want it to fall through somehow. Common sense stuff. But the point is it should help take up some of the tiny bit of space that may be left between the cam locking tool and the cams so that timing is definitely locked in. You also want to mark timing the second that cam chain cover comes and before you start touching anything else. This will ensure you are 100% positive you haven't slipped a tooth during the process when you are finished and re-checking everything before final reassembly. As for the exhaust cam adjuster bolt. Soak it with PB blaster and let it sit awhile, use heat from a propane torch, and then insert the poly drive with a short extension and hammer on the other end as hard as you can without missing and hitting something else. Between that, and the PB blaster, and the heat if done in rapid succession of each other it should help weaken the loctite that holds that bolt in a lot tighter then its ostensible torque spec would have you believe. Then you can more safely back it out. I think an impact gun does a great job because it delivers shocking force without the continuous hard twisting force that is apt to shear the weak bolt head teeth. However, if you don't have access to even a cordless impact driver and don't want to buy one at Harbor Freight for cheap, then a long breaker bar will be necessary to do this somewhat safely. If you use a breaker bar I recommend that at ALL TIMES there is at least on hand on the end of it pushing the poly drive socket as hard straight into the bolt head as possible. Preferably if you get a buddy maybe you can have 2 hands doing that and then your 2 hands devoted to putting leverage on the end of the bar to crack it loose. But if you're doing it yourself it is imperative you have one hand pushing the socket straight into the bolt head, if you start using both hands on the lever end of the breaker bar you greatly increase your chances of shearing the bolt head.



> I think I understand how to do the compression/leakdown tests (unsure if its 5 cranks or 10 for compression though) but I want to make sure I understand what you are saying when you refer to a cold and dry test.. I have no oil or coolant in the system at all right now as I drained it prior to removing the factory turbo, surely I shouldn't go cranking the engine over in this state, right? Are you saying no oil as in no oil added to the cylinder prior to the test or no oil in the system at all?


5 cranks should be sufficient but you should be able to tell by the readings whether it adds up or not. If it's really low then try more cranks and see if it rises, it should unless you have problem. When I said cold and dry that is a test where you have not recently driven the vehicle and you have not poured any oil through the spark plug hole onto the top of the cylinder. It does NOT mean a dry system. While technically residual oil coating on all the internals in the engine should protect it from the few cranks you have to do in order to get compression up I still would not perform the test on an engine that is empty.



> As for the Oil pressure test, when the time for that comes can I use VCDS/other OBD diag tools to read the pressure reported by the oil pressure sender or is it imperative that I use an analogue gauge?


Yes you must use an analogue gauge because the factory oil pressure "sender" is not really a sender in the true sense, it is more of a switch. It does not tell the ECU an exact amount of pressure it sees, it simply tells the ECU when the pressure it sees is below a preset threshold and that's when it switches on and alerts the ECU and driver. That preset pressure is pretty low too. Low enough that if it does go off it's very serious and should not be taken lightly at all. Any time an oil pressure warning light comes on in these cars the engine should be shut off as soon as it is remotely safe to do so.

But anyway, I digress. The point is that you can't figure out the oil pressure from the ECU. You need to hook up a gauge. The cheapest and easiest way is to use one like I linked you to. But if you want to take it as an opportunity to wire an actual permanent gauge in the interior so you can monitor it all the time I can advise you on that too. It'd obviously cost more and be more work.



> Regarding injectors: Do you recommend mk6R injectors or S3 injectors? There is a base file in maestro for S3 injectors but it looks like mk6R injectors are a bit cheaper... What else should I do while I have the intake manifold off for that job?


S3 injectors are the exact same thing as Mk6 R injectors. They are referred to as if they are different sometimes but they are interchangeable parts. While you have the intake manifold off you should definitely do a intake valve carbon cleaning. Media blasting with walnut shells is definitely one of the most efficient ways from a time and effort standpoint although it can make a mess and costs more. The other way is to use chemicals and scraping tools (metal mechanics picks, flat-blade screwdriver, etc.). There are lots of different ways people go about it but I like to work smart not hard. I personally refuse to scrape off hardened carbon. It takes HOURS and murders my back. What I recommend to people is to play it smart and prep. First off, GM top end cleaner is a VERY strong chemical cleaner and works nicely for this, better then CRC intake valve cleaner and basic stuff like that. Use thick gloves and eye protection. It is not particularly great if it contacts your skin and if it gets in your eyes they are done for. Don't get me wrong, we're not talking like hydrochloric acid or something here, but as far as chemical cleaners go it is nasty. Soak a bunch of quality rags (that won't shed or deteriorate) with GM top clean and wad them up around each of the intake valves, ensuring full contact of the soaked rag with the valves. Then pour a little more cleaner in each port for good measure. Wrap the head tightly with Saran wrap or something that ensures the ports are totally air tight. This will keep the chems from evaporating because the next thing you're gonna do is just let it sit there for a good 12 hours. When you come back that carbon will be mush and you shouldn’t have to scrape, except maybe the absolute bottom layers of it. But if you let it sit long enough and use enough cleaner the carbon should basically just be sludge that you can suck out with a shop vac.

Remember that at no point will all 4 valves be closed at the same time. If you're lucky you'll have 3 fully closed and 1 open. Sometimes you get 2 closed with 1 partially open and 1 more open. Bottom-line is you'll need to rotate the engine during this job to get the 1 or 2 valves that were previously a little opened into a closed state for soaking/cleaning. That means you're looking at doing the cleaning in stages with 2 separate soaking and cleaning sessions. 

When everything is all done I suggest an oil change because depending on how well your valve stem seals are (which on these engines is usually not the best) some of the chems and maybe even a tad of the carbon can seep down and contaminate the oil. 

Normally you would plan ahead by having new injector seal ring kits and the tool for installing them because 9/10 times at least 1 injector comes out with the intake manifold and if it comes out it MUST be resealed with a NEW seal kit or there is a very high change it will leak after you reinstall it and finish the job... BUT since you will be installing new injectors after the cleaning anyway, which come with new sealing rings, you're good to go on that front.



> I should mention I am also planning to use the stock intercooler for now at least, as I understand the only real drawback to that is premature heat-soak which isn't really a concern since I wont be doing pull after pull.


That is mostly accurately. If you want to be technical there is another drawback which is that even when you aren't doing back to back pulls the average IATs (intake air temps - measured right after the throttle body) at any given time that you're in boost will still be higher on the stock IC than a GOOD upgraded IC (emphasis on "good" because there are a lot of ****ty ones out there). Higher IATs mean the engine will be a little more conservative on the dynamic timing advance that it chooses to add. Tunes don't tell the engine exactly what timing to run all the time down to the number. There is a prescribed range and the MED9 ECU is smart enough to determine how much it should advance or retard timing within that range, based on certain variables such as fuel richness/leanness and IATs. So all this to say that higher average IATs means the ECU will be be more restrictive on the dynamic timing advance it can add which means you lose out on some minor power potential. In this particular case we're talking maybe 10hp so it's not major. But one of the other things that a better IC will do is help decrease combustion temps (CTs). Cooler IATs means cooler CTs. Which technically means cooler exhaust gas temps (EGTs) and that technically means a cooler turbo which means cooler IATs again... it's all interrelated and cyclical. So the argument can be made that a better IC can help the engine and turbo run more efficiently and more "happily" due to lower CTs, EGTs, etc. How much real world impact this has on the longevity of such parts is not something that anyone has (or really can) accurately test or prove. It's just sound knowledge that should be considered for what it is worth to the given owner.



> I acknowledge I may have made a poor decision with Maestro but I have to at least give it a shot since I already bought it. I read your write up on shelf vs custom tunes and you make very valid points.


Sure it is worth giving a try by I caution you to be very careful if you're going to approach the tuning yourself. Start with the base map ONLY and then go get very thorough baseline log with the base map. Approach even the base map logging carefully initially. I don't trust all Eurodyne base maps and recommend you have someone with you on your initial WOT (wide open throttle) runs who is instructed in what to look for to make sure that you are not running too rich or especially too lean. I've seen Eurodyne base maps with some scary fueling results. Once you are comfortable with the base map and have lots of baseline data from that. Then start tweaking it. Make very small adjustments and focus on changing as little as possible between each data-log test run after the changes. That way you can easily tell what was a bad tweak if you suddenly have a problem that shows in the data. Making small adjustments also ensures you don't accidentally do something drastic that puts your engine at risk (e.g. turning up boost too much with not enough fueling to accommodate the increased air flow).

As it happens I have any even more thorough re-do of the "tuning" section of my build thread I have just written recently and plan to update the thread with soon (it's still sitting in a word doc somewhere)... if you care to read it. I wasn't quite satisfied with how it was lol.


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