# Let's talk about stroker 1.8t



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

I have been doing a lot of research, including questions I have asked to vendors, engine builders and members in here, but I have heard mixed comments and feedback about this upgrade on performance while keeping reliability.

There are different setup to stroke a 1.8t with slightly difference in displacement. 

We can see the 2.1 stroker = 2067cc
*It requires to bore out the block.
*TDI crank. (95.5mm crank).
*83mm pistons.
*20mm connecting rods.

2.0 stroker = 2008cc
*Again it needs to bore out the block.
*FSI/AEG crank (92.8mm crank).
*83mm pistons.
*20mm connecting rods.

2.0 stroker = 1984cc
*Again it needs to bore out the block.
*FSI/AEG crank (92.8mm crank).
*82.5mm pistons.
*20mm connecting rods

And so on you can play with these parts to achieve different displacements such as 1.9t, etc.

Compression is chosen depending on the goal set for the build. 
Lower compression (CR) allows you to run higher boost and timing but car could feel a bit lazy when is not on boost.
Higher compression (CR) means the opposite (less boost but a more responsive engine when car is not on boost).

However the meaning of this thread is more to share the knowledge and experience for those like me who are contemplating on going this route.
After making a few question to vendors and shop, I did not hear anything but good things when stroking a 1.8t engine. Even though I trust their knowledge and experience, I would like to know about those who have first hand experience and own these motors.?

My main concern is reliability!
I want to build a motor that it can handle a good power band but then again being able to make a 400-1000 miles trip while giving me a peace of mind that it will make it both ways without a problem. In other words a daily driven car.

I have heard that these motors run hotter than stock stroke 1.8t which it is not something I would like to deal with for my goal however I have talked to a few vendors and shops who have denied this statement. How true is this?

What about the slapping piston sound they make when they're cold? Would this be an issue that it will trigger the knock sensors and mess with the tune?

I know that an external oil cooler and maybe a low temp thermostat along with a thermo switch would help to keep those temps down to keep them from overheating. These are the type of caution you usually take when simply squeezing more power out of a big turbo 1.8t car but will it be enough for a now stroker engine? 

What about if you plan to track the car once in a while? Do you have to get an even bigger oil cooler? aftermarket radiator? maybe bigger fans?

Any advice and experience that you would like to share can be useful to myself and those who are seeking for more information about these motors.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

Sub'd


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

The short answer is when built properly and following all of the necessary rules to suit your criteria, it will not be less reliable, run hotter or exhibit much more engine acoustics then a stocker. The easiest route would be to go with a 2.0L stroker with stock or near stock compression for overall performance.


----------



## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

sponcar said:


> I have been doing a lot of research, including questions I have asked to vendors, engine builders and members in here, but I have heard mixed comments and feedback about this upgrade on performance while keeping reliability.
> 
> There are different setup to stroke a 1.8t with slightly difference in displacement.
> 
> ...


I stroked mine out to 2.1L in 2012 using ALH (TDI) crank. It's the best upgrade I've done to the car outside of a BT. I never heard of a stroked engine running hotter than stock. My coolant temp is always at stock 190 F. Not sure about oil temps. Oil quality is the same, however, when I change oil.

I daily drive the car and reliability is extremely important to me. The car is more reliable now with a built bottom end. My JE pistons do get slap happy in extreme cold. I noticed this especially the first year. However, this year they have settled down and are more quiet. Since I bought VCDS, I haven't noticed any increase in knock codes caused by piston slapping. My Unitronics 630 tune and now my GTS 1200 tune ignore any interference from slapping pistons (if any) and performance is not effected at all.

The car is way more torquey with ALH crank and GTX2867R. It feels I'm driving a six-cylinder rather than a four-banger. A stroked engine effectively shortens your connecting rod ratio causing an increase in piston velocity. This increases volumetric efficiency across the board. Rod Angularity does increase with a shorter connecting rod ratio. However, as I explain in this thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6038704-Stroker-opinions&highlight=stroker

it doesn't increase that much between ALH and AEG crank. I'm not conviced that there is any increase in wear or reliability going with the ALH (TDI) crank. As mentioned above, make sure it's built property or get someone reliable to do the stroker kit. Go with stock compression and either ALH or AEG crank. ALH crank can be had for cheaper and is built sturdy. IF you go with ALH, contact Issam Ibed and see if he still has a set of Mahle alloy pistons as he mentioned here:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...r-opinions&p=81888085&viewfull=1#post81888085

Those should be less slap happy.


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The short answer is when built properly and following all of the necessary rules to suit your criteria, it will not be less reliable, run hotter or exhibit much more engine acoustics then a stocker. The easiest route would be to go with a 2.0L stroker with stock or near stock compression for overall performance.


I understand that the builder must be careful when putting an engine together to match the right torque specs and clearances. 
Just to make it clear, your telling that there is not extra modification needed in the coolant/oil system to keep these strokers running withing same specs as stockers. 


*mainstayinc*

That is a great information I haven't came across until today. How many miles is your daily commute? 

I have seen threads in here with stroker engines doing track seasons. Those engine are usually taken to higher demands than when those built for street driving which consist on stop and go but sometimes sitting in traffic for an hour or two. However, these cars that see the track get their engines refreshed once in a while if not right after every other race. I do not have the time or the money to do that.

I set my mind a few months ago to do a stroker engine since my engine was showing some low oil pressure problems. I though on using the block and build it with new internals and maybe a semi build heads, but then I found a good deal on a used and low mileage engine which I have it on an engine stand at the moment. 

So after collecting most of the parts and talk to a lot of people who has done these built, I have been told that they are not reliable as stockers due to their thinner walls after bore out the blocks.
It could be that the built wasn't done properly as arnold said or maybe these motors wear out faster then stock bore 1.8t?


----------



## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

TDI crank is 95.5mm - I have been hoarding one for a while now but it's yet to find its way into my block. The only ACTUAL issue I've heard of with the 2.1 stroker is the TDI cranks can be out of round and take some work (money) to straighten out. Although, that could be said about any used crank...


----------



## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

^^I work out of home so I don't have to commute. I drive less than 5000 miles a year which allows me to be exempt from PA emmisions testing. I've had the stroker kit since November, 2012 so it has about 10,000 miles on it. All VW 4-cylinders have 88mm cylinder spacing. So, stock has 7mm wall thickness at its narrowest point and 83mm bore engines have 5mm thickness. This is still plenty of material IMO. Others may be able to comment about that issue.

I don't have to rev the engine as much with the stroker engine. There is plenty of torque between 1800 and 2500 RPMs on my setup for almost any driving situation. That puts less wear on the engine and cylinder walls for the most part. That also puts less stress (g-force) on the bottom end as I explain in the thread I posted above. When I had stock 1.8T and GT28R, I had to rev engine past 3000 RPMs to get nice torque for daily driving. Of course, I occasionally rev out to 6500+ RPMs on my current setup to remind me of the power available up top.

I definately don't think that a stroked and bored engine will wear out any sooner than stock engine in a daily driver. Proper lubrication and maintenance is more critical IMO in keeping the engine in good working order. A tracked car is different of course due to higher revs. 

So far, my setup has been bullet-proof. The thought of doing a re-build in the future due to wear-and-tear has never crossed my mind.


----------



## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

All_Euro said:


> TDI crank is 95.5mm - I have been hoarding one for a while now but it's yet to find its way into my block. The only ACTUAL issue I've heard of with the 2.1 stroker is the TDI cranks can be out of round and take some work (money) to straighten out. Although, that could be said about any used crank...


Get that crank installed! And, yes, that could be said about any used crank.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Do you happen to remember who told you these motors were less reliable because of the thinner cylinder walls from boring out the block? Did they give/show any specific examples of this? I ran my block bored out to 83mm for well over 5 years with different sized turbos ( biggest was a GT35R), garbage tunes, etc. I've melted pistons, blown up spark plugs, bent valves, you name it. But never did I have any issues with thinner cylinder walls. This is all on the same block. I still have this block now on an engine stand getting a new build setup and you'd never even be able to tell it was the same block that was used during all of those past experiences.
I also have never had any issues with overheating using the stock cooling system, even with back to back high boost pulls.

If you have a good engine builder and a great tune, your stroker motor will last as long as the motor in stock form.

EDIT: the motor discussed above was also daily driven.


----------



## Ken's Mom (Jan 23, 2007)

sponcar said:


> 2.0 stroker = 1984cc
> *Again it needs to bore out the block.
> *FSI/AEG crank (92.8mm crank).
> *82.5mm pistons.
> *20mm connecting rods



why would you need to bore the block if you just use the AEG (has no piston pin squirters) or the AZG (has piston pin squirters) block that has the 92.8mm crank to begin with? get 82.5mm pistons, hone and go. that is, unless you go with the FSI forged crank i guess then you would need to bore.


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

Ken's Mom said:


> why would you need to bore the block if you just use the AEG (has no piston pin squirters) or the AZG (has piston pin squirters) block that has the 92.8mm crank to begin with? get 82.5mm pistons, hone and go. that is, unless you go with the FSI forged crank i guess then you would need to bore.


Pretty sure the 20v head will not bolt up to an AEG or AZG block...


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

sponcar said:


> I understand that the builder must be careful when putting an engine together to match the right torque specs and clearances.
> Just to make it clear, your telling that there is not extra modification needed in the coolant/oil system to keep these strokers running withing same specs as stockers.


No mods needed at all


----------



## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Chris164935 said:


> Pretty sure the 20v head will not bolt up to an AEG or AZG block...


Works great with mk4 2.0L block. Just need Pistons and rods of choice. Will most likely need to go with 83mm. There is a FAQ about swapping 20v head onto AEG AZG block. It is fairly straight forward.


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

Ken's Mom said:


> why would you need to bore the block if you just use the AEG (has no piston pin squirters) or the AZG (has piston pin squirters) block that has the 92.8mm crank to begin with? get 82.5mm pistons, hone and go. that is, unless you go with the FSI forged crank i guess then you would need to bore.


No, If anything I will be using an AWW block. 
I have an FSI crank from I.E and 20mm connecting rods I bought a few months ago. 
I wanted to hear true first hand experiences as well as builders opinion before I purchase a set of pistons. I'm in the fence on either roll the dize and get this stroker build going or just buy some 81mm pistons to rebuild the bottom end.


----------



## gitman (May 13, 2004)

if you've already got the FSI crank and the 20mm rods, then go for it. get a set of mahle 4032 alloy pistons unless you're going for very high power levels. you'll barely hear bad things from 2618 alloy piston owners, but 2618's have been known to piston-slap on cold starts, depending on the tolerances of the build.


----------



## Ken's Mom (Jan 23, 2007)

Chris164935 said:


> Pretty sure the 20v head will not bolt up to an AEG or AZG block...


the only other mod aside from the turbo coolant feed port was the dowel in the block is in the wrong place for a 20v head. redrill the block using the HG as a template, or you may be able to drill the head.

but other than that, its a drop on affair.


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

FAQ'd under 'crankshafts'


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

gitman said:


> if you've already got the FSI crank and the 20mm rods, then go for it. get a set of mahle 4032 alloy pistons unless you're going for very high power levels. you'll barely hear bad things from 2618 alloy piston owners, but 2618's have been known to piston-slap on cold starts, depending on the tolerances of the build.


Breaking the 400whp on descent boost is the final goal.


----------



## mk4321 (Nov 14, 2010)

sub'd


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Ya, I recommend Mahle's for most builds. In fact we like them so much that we had a some custom made on a heavier duty forging, with a heavier duty wrist pin- so we can use them on bigger power builds then the standard PowerPak pistons which are actually somewhat light duty. 

FWIW, you an run them nearly 3 times tighter then a 2618 piston. That I really like.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Ya, I recommend Mahle's for most builds. In fact we like them so much that we had a some custom made on a heavier duty forging, with a heavier duty wrist pin- so we can use them on bigger power builds then the standard PowerPak pistons which are actually somewhat light duty.
> 
> FWIW, you an run them nearly 3 times tighter then a 2618 piston. That I really like.


good to know:beer:


----------



## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Ya, I recommend Mahle's for most builds. In fact we like them so much that we had a some custom made on a heavier duty forging, with a heavier duty wrist pin- so we can use them on bigger power builds then the standard PowerPak pistons which are actually somewhat light duty.
> 
> FWIW, you an run them nearly 3 times tighter then a 2618 piston. That I really like.


Pricing on such a set?


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

what he said....for a stroker. will they be publicly available lol?


----------



## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> what he said....for a stroker. will they be publicly available lol?


Yes - and for the 2.1L as well... and how about up to 83.5mm?


----------



## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

All_Euro said:


> Yes - and for the 2.1L as well... and how about up to 83.5mm?


95.5mm stroke x 83.5mm bore = 2092 CCs!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Yea, we are only doing 83mm x 92.8 at the moment. It's not a custom order situation but rather a "small production run". 

http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-spec-mahle-1-8t-20v-piston-set

Hard anodized ring lands as well as very beefy 20mm pins and a heavier duty forging. Winning it.


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Tasty!


----------



## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

mainstayinc said:


> 95.5mm stroke x 83.5mm bore = 2092 CCs!


Exactly - I keep going back and forth between 2067 & 2092... I won't be ready for a bit but still can't sleep trying to decide 




[email protected] said:


> Yea, we are only doing 83mm x 92.8 at the moment. It's not a custom order situation but rather a "small production run".
> 
> http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-spec-mahle-1-8t-20v-piston-set
> 
> Hard anodized ring lands as well as very beefy 20mm pins and a heavier duty forging. Winning it.


Thanks for those couple Mahle posts. Those pistons are a great option - especially for those of us who live up in winter land.


----------



## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

All_Euro said:


> Those pistons are a great option - especially for those of us who live up in winter land.


So you're saying that pistons don't get happy (slapping) noises on states that do not see snow like Cali? I though they do on cold start only and not due to the outside temperatures.


----------



## Joe_Anni (Aug 20, 2014)

Sub'd


----------



## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

sponcar said:


> So you're saying that pistons don't get happy (slapping) noises on states that do not see snow like Cali? I though they do on cold start only and not due to the outside temperatures.


If it's 10* out and the car has been sitting outside for 9 hours, how cold do you think the engine/oil is? More likely than not the same temperature. I'm no metallurgist, but I'll put money on the 10* engine being noisier than the 70* one.


----------



## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

sponcar said:


> So you're saying that pistons don't get happy (slapping) noises on states that do not see snow like Cali? I though they do on cold start only and not due to the outside temperatures.


My JE pistons have been totally quiet like stock since end of last winter. Winter time they get chatty until the engine is fully warmed up. Once engine is warm, they are totally quiet.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We get the whole gammut here from 110+ in the summer to -xx in the winter sometimes... Below 20 or 30 you'll definitely have audible slap from a 2618 built engine even with correct wall clearances until it warms up some. This really means those engines should be idled for a few minutes at least before being driven at all, especially in those conditions.


----------



## GasInMyVeins (Jul 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> We get the whole gammut here from 110+ in the summer to -xx in the winter sometimes... Below 20 or 30 you'll definitely have audible slap from a 2618 built engine even with correct wall clearances until it warms up some. This really means those engines should be idled for a few minutes at least before being driven at all, especially in those conditions.


I'm following this to learn things, but I had to step in and say this: I love living in Florida.


----------



## gitman (May 13, 2004)

GasInMyVeins said:


> I'm following this to learn things, but I had to step in and say this: I love living in Florida.


hear, hear!

edit: just wanted to mention that i picked up my 2067 mahle pistions from INA


----------



## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

gitman said:


> hear, hear!
> 
> edit: just wanted to mention that i picked up my 2067 mahle pistions from INA


Nice choice. You are going to have a very nice setup. I would have chosen the Mahle pistons had they been available when I did my bottom end. The JE's take a little getting used to at first but are a solid piston. The engine sounds like a diesel during cold starts in winter. It helps remind me that have other diesel components on the car (ALH crank, 3.389 TDI ring and pinion etc). The other cold start issue I have during winter is my AP Tuning Race gearset. The transmission fluid required for the G-Force gears is thick as molasses. Sometimes it's almost impossible to get into first gear after startup. After about 5 or 10 minutes of driving, however, my setup is as smooth as butter.

Also, the car is alot more powerful during winter here in PA as in most of the NE and midwest. I don't know if I could get used to the nice weather in FL or CA and lack of increased winter POWAH.


----------



## Spunker (Feb 3, 2014)

I'


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

the antichrist revealed???wtf dude lol


----------



## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Vegeta Gti said:


> the antichrist revealed???wtf dude lol


You can PM me if you have any questions about the video.

EDIT: The video deals with certain verses of the Apocalypse and how that corresponds with recent events. Some might find that interesting.


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

I'm sensing a major derail here lol


----------



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Cross referencing a good overbore headgasket thread here.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7190025-overbore-head-gasket-faq-dont-get-screwed


----------



## Ephry73 (Feb 18, 2002)

Subscribed. Keep the info coming guys. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

You may want to check out this thread: Stroker Opinions

I posted some technical information for each of the different 1.8T stroker options.

-John (mainstayinc).


----------



## Ephry73 (Feb 18, 2002)

mainstayinc said:


> You may want to check out this thread: Stroker Opinions
> 
> I posted some technical information for each of the different 1.8T stroker options.
> 
> -John (mainstayinc).


Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NailGuy (Apr 6, 2017)

*1992 1.8 8 valve in my cabriolet*

I've been thinking of doing an engine swap but now i see guys are doing strokers, I think I want to build one. Is my block a good starting point or do I need to find a different one?

Kyle


----------



## sleepy1.8t (Sep 5, 2013)

nailguy said:


> i've been thinking of doing an engine swap but now i see guys are doing strokers, i think i want to build one. Is my block a good starting point or do i need to find a different one?
> 
> Kyle


gotta tell us what block it is first bruh


----------

