# 1.8 8v to 2.0 8v/16v upgrade issues



## adanconst (Oct 21, 2010)

Hy to everybody, i finally got my hopes up and registered on this forum, couldn't find the correct info by searching, so please don't be harsh on me. This is actually my first post here, don't know yet if it's the best place to post, because of my questions. 

I feel kind of weird 'cause i haven't helped anyone and from the very start i'm asking for your help.I will try to pass my condition and kinly ask you to give me a little bit of credit for the start 


So, the car is an audi 80, known as audi 4000 overseas. I'm from eastern europe, so i get all the german editions, numbers and names.

Original engine is an 1.8 8v short block engine with some keihin double carb. Made in '85 it is supposed to do only 90 hp as far as i know, have no clue about the compression ratio, heard of 8.5:1 and 10:1... big difference.:sly:

Anyways, my main issue is that i want to upgrade as much as i can this engine block 'cause here where i live, one can't actually do engine swaps legally very easy so no troubles wanted 

I've also got a 1.8 16v KR engine and another 8v engine, so i got a few bits and pieces.

The problem is that i want to go to 2.0 or even 2.1.. or mode concerning the engine. I know i can fit a 2.0 crank or a 1,9 TDI crank with minor modifications, but they mainly fit. Will go on bike carbs, so no worryes about triggering for timing.

My basic problems start at the top. :banghead:
Having a bigger stroke and the same lenght for the connecting rod means that my stock 8v or 16v pistons will pop out off the block, right?

Now here comes the issue, it would be easy to spend some money on aftermarket pistons to fit my demands, but unfortunately, to get them in my country in my hands will actually cost 'round 800-1000$ so no interest here.

My hopes are to find stock pistons that will fit to my wish into my short 1.8 block and not pop out 

I have absolutely no ideea from wich engine code i must take these pistons out.

Moreover, i am aiming for a high compression ratio such as 11:1 and running on some smart camshaft. If i would simply fit the 8v head onto the 16v pistons, machine the head a bit and some other goodies, i could reduce the 13-14:1 CR to my desired 11:1 or close.But i will not have the big botre. The 16v camshafts for my kr upgrade would also be too expensive to use the 16v head so much money for not to big gain i say, rather aim on a 8v camshaft.

Porting the 8v head will give me almost as much flow as the 16v stock head, so not big of a loss. Bigger valves on the 8v will help that too.Sport cams for 8v are a little cheapier arond here, could find a new one 'round 400$.


So guys, if you could be so kind and help a newcomer build his engine with some info you know will be highly appreciated. Big interest is located in the piston-head-compression-valve clearance area.

If anyone of you guys have done this before, or know anything for sure about it.. many thanks in advance.:beer:


p.s.: if this is a bad place to post, or anything is not as the rules say, feel free to cut/remove/burn/kill me, but let me know before you do it.


----------



## adanconst (Oct 21, 2010)

well, i think i can fit in the ABA internals, crankshaft and pistons, with my 144 rods, should fit with only 0,7 mm pop up out of the block . That can be machined down.

this weekend i will take a closer look at two pistons, an 1.8 8v and 2.0 8v one, see the differences between the deck height, and wrist pin.

Main issue in this combo is the compression ratio remaining for the 8v head, as the 16v has no reason, the piston being dished. Any ideea on how much i can grind off the head for high CR?



still aiming for the 1,9 TDI shaft for a little more displacement, but having trouble in finding the correct pistons, don't think there is a stock one to fit.

no one interested in this thread? maybe i should post it in another section


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

So why would you go through the trouble of pulling out your 1.8 to bore it out to a 2.0 but you wont just use the ABA bottom end?:banghead:

I have never seen a inspection place that does anymore than visually look and there is no difference once you get everything bolted onto it

Sounds to me like you need to just use the ABA and deck your head .030 (no grinding have a machine shop do it) find a decent cam and tweak your tuning:beer::beer::beer:


Pulling the motor to bore the cylinders to fit the ABA pistons would cost quite a bit you would also need to have rods redone or new ones and it's never a good idea to shave the pistons save yourself a headache and keep your car alive just use the ABA:laugh:

Also a good flow benched P&P cost 800-1200$ 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...read.-looking-for-proper-specs-for-a-good-p-p

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...read.-looking-for-proper-specs-for-a-good-p-p


----------



## adanconst (Oct 21, 2010)

i know swedka, you are right, BUT machining stuff is very cheap here, and i have a lot of places to do it here in my city, fitting an ABA or any other engine means changing the engine serial and displacement in the car's id papers which would cost me as much as 2 aba running perfect engines, not to mention the taxes afterwards. Moreover, they have some stupid rules like the new engine cannot be more than 15% more powerful than the old one, plus you need to get some papers from the local dealer as they agree to fit that type of engine into your car. If it hasn't been approved by the factory, or mounted OEM, then you have to pay an incredible amount of money as they are supposed to test the car with that engine. And in the end you can't get more than 15% + legally. Lots of morons around.

Avoiding them seems the only solution. Therefore i guess my recipe for the upgrade sounds acceptable. Must check first the pistons


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

:screwy:


----------



## adanconst (Oct 21, 2010)

Got to meet today's pistons, 1.8 16v KR stock one and 2E (european equivalent AFAIK for ABA, concerning the internals, others may differ) Got some photos and measurements. Will post soon if anyone is watching me


----------



## adanconst (Oct 21, 2010)

Ok, so here i am, i couldn't find any pictures that will help me, but found this table on this site, soi decided to test if the dimensions were correct. They were.: http://www.not2fast.com/vw/stuff/vw_engines.shtml

so, i will post the pictures of the 2 types of piston, the flat one is for 16v, 1.8 KR and the dished one is from a 2E/ABA engine. Actually, the 16v piston is not flat, it's actually a little domed. Can't find my caliper yet.. so i had to measure with an old school ruler  Didn't really care much, because i just wanted to check with the table in that link. It proves that the dimensions are 4 real.

my main concern of the wrist pin hole's offset in the piston (thus pistons pop out) was the reason i searched for these 2 types of piston. Of course, i need the stock 8v 1.8 piston to verify that too. But, i may take the numbers in that table for granted 

So, fiting the ABA 92.8 crank with 144 rods and 2E pistons will get me indeed the following scheme: (92.8/2)+144+30.9 = 221.3 mm. The standard block height is 220, so i need to "cut" 1,3 mm from the pistons.

or the TDI crank with: (95.5/2)+144+30.9 = 222.65 remaining 2,65 mm which sounds quite much i't might add. 

I will take a closer look at the 8v pistons to see how much i can actually try to cut, maybe i could use a section through a piston, but can't find any pictures. eventually i will cut one myself 

Here goes the photo shoot and the scheme i've done to be understod better.
Please please correct me if i got the measurements wrong 

http://img440.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=dsc07654.jpg

later edit: i've just noticed from more pictures, the 8v piston has a "lump" on one side as you can clearly see in the photos. Measuring that not extremely precise, it looks like 0.8-1 mm height, so 1.3 mm removed wouldn't be quite panic, would be something like 0.5 from the dish's edge  

Must find a 8v piston section !!


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

If u do the ABA swap urself, why do u hav to report it? Why not just swap it and not tell anyone?? Like mentioned above when installed you cant tell the 2.0 from the 1.8 at a glance.

Also if thats not an option at all why are u going through the trouble of machining when the easiest solution to me is to leave the stock crank in the 1.8, use the 16v pistons which will give u 14:1 CR and either run a spacer or stack head gaskets to get ur lower desired CR combined with a good cam, exhaust and P&P on the head. or Use the stock 10:1CR pistons and mill the head and use a thinner head gasket, should give u the 11:1 ur looking for.  

Is there any specific reason for the bigger displacement? Wut are ur goals for this car?? Do you hav any HP goals in mind?


----------



## adanconst (Oct 21, 2010)

Excellent idea with the 16v pistons man, could lower the compression ratio by machining the head a little bit ) somewhere near the valves, nevermind, thought of that... it was my only second plan the one with milling the head works out for 8v too, but....

The main plan was to get a little more torque than just raising the CR and bike carbs  and bigger valves.. and...  and keep that damn serial no. on my original block fitted on the car You can tell the difference 'cause the block height and the numbers written on it 1.8 or 2.0.

I will do the internals swap and everything by myself, i'll just keep the original block so no one could tell. You have no idea how funky changing anything that is not OEM is when you meet the local inspection team. My country sucks bigtime @ that :screwy: and i have to do this inspection once in 2 years, don't know your laws, just mine 

Still i'm thinking, if i suposely fit the 16v piston with the 8v head, would there be no valve clearance issues? just thinking 

Still don't know if all of the 1.8 8v's have 10:1 and only the pg g60 has 8,5:1 or there are also normaly aspirated 1.8 8v's that have 8,5 CR


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

None of your post makes any sense, you are worried about some parts numbers and being visually and # matching but you have bike carbs what kind of funky ass weird shlt are you making up here:banghead:


----------



## adanconst (Oct 21, 2010)

well, i do have to admit, it is more than weird. 

My ideal setup is a 2.0 fitted in a 1.8 short block (this is where i had the internals problem for keeping the original serial), either 8v or 16v, don't care much(but have to decide what pistons to use), have both heads (p&p the 8v and gets close to the 16v stock flow,p&p the 16v don't get the same big difference in flowing,not really a huge plus as it is for 8v), plus the bike carbs, plus some agressive camshaft (wich is a lot cheapier around here than the ones for 16v), plus bigger valves, plus lightened everything..and presto... you have my ideea. I may lose some torque from enlightening everything, but get it back by high CR and bigger displacement. Probably will end up with a normal torque for an ordinary 2.0 but a lot easyer revving  

kinda' complicated, right? but many thanks for supporting me so far!:beer::beer::beer:


----------



## adanconst (Oct 21, 2010)

back with some interesting news... cut a 1.8 piston in half, took some measurements, will be back to post details


----------



## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

aba rods (159mm length) are 21mm pins.
1.8/2.0 rods (144mm length) are 20mm pins.

aba pistons on KR rods, or any other rods besides ABA rods, will not work..

and another thing, the 1.8 block has a significantly smaller bore size than the 2.0


----------



## danvw (Sep 15, 2010)

i am learning alot for my aba build
it sounds like you are in california their emissions suck


----------



## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

nope, one is from Washington, one Florida, and im in Oregon.. nobody has to endure the california torture..


----------



## Kazan (Feb 4, 2005)

Check this site http://www.not2fast.com/vw/stuff/vw_engines.shtml


----------

