# 92 GTi No spark/No fuel



## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

I have a 92 Gti and it doesnt start. It cranks. I took a fuel line off and I get no fuel while trying to crank. I am able to get fuel if I jumper the fuel pump relay. I also am not getting spark. I have tried a number of things. Jumping the battery doesnt work. Pop-starting it doesnt work. Any ideas would be grateful.


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

With the key to "run" check for 12V DC at terminal 86 under the fuel pump relay. If you have 12V DC at Terminal 86 replace the fuel pump relay. Since you have jumpered the FP relay you know where it is and can find the PN from it. FR


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

8 or 16 valve?


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

8 valve


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

how is the plug for your hall sender?


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*hall sender*

The plug looks visibly good. Should I test the voltage on it somehow?


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*fuel pump relay*

I replaced the fuel pump relay and that is not the issue. The car still doesnt get fuel unless I jumper the fuel pump relay. Any more ideas??


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Did you test for 12V DC at pin 86 under the fuel pump relay? That pin connects to Circuit 15 which is the "run" circuit. You could also test Circuit 15 at the coil -- that would be a small black wire attached to a blade terminal. Both of those should have 12V DC with the key turned to run. No power to either terminal for circuit 15 and I would suspect the ignition circuit -- the ingnition switch has a key part and an electrical part. The electrical part of the ignition switch commonly goes bad. The part of the ignition switch that makes that starter operate (Circuit 50) could still be good.

If Circuit 15 is powered, I would check for 12V DC into the ECU through the Digifant relay with the key once again set to the run position. That would be Pin 14 of the ECU connector. If you have no power to pin 14 then look back in the circuit to the Digifant Relay. PN 357 906 381. If you have power into the ECU through the Digifant relay then I would suspect the ECU itself. 

Are you in or was your car from California? Then the connector pin number might be different. Pin 14 should be the first pin (closest to where all of the wires enter the connector) in the short row of pins. FR


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*Fuel pump relay*

The ignition switch was the first thing I replaced. I tested for 12v at the relay and I have 12v to all but one of the prongs on the relay, the 87 prong. I dont think I have a circuit 15. I have a 30, 85, 86, amd 87 on the relay. When I jumper out the relay I jump relay 87 to 30 to make the fuel pump work. I tested what I thought was the 14th pin on the ECU, not sure if I had the right pin but I had 12v. Would any other pins test 12v? If the ECU is bad would that cause no fuel/no spark?


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Good. Yes, jumpering 30 and 87 should make the fuel pump run. And you have 12V DC at pin 86. With the relay removed and the car set to run. You should have no power at #85 and #87.
You should also have power at #30 -- that power should be constant (Ignition does not have to be in the run position.) 

You have power to the ECU. Yes, a bad Digifant Control Unit (ECU)could cause the issues you are having. Check the several ground wires that attach to the coolant flange stud at the transmission end of the cylinder head. If those are broken or have a bad contact the ECU can be blown out. Once you know that those ground wires are in good shape with a clean connection you can try a different ECU. (It is cheaper to buy a used ECU than it is to pay a dealer to test one.) 

Did you check for 12V DC at the circuit 15 coil connection -- probably two smaller black wires with a spade connector? I am assuming if you have power to pin #85 at the FP Relay you will have power to the coil. 

We can also check the Hall Sender and the Ignition Control Unit. FR


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## JohnScholl (Oct 25, 2009)

Fat Rabbit said:


> Good. Yes, jumpering 30 and 87 should make the fuel pump run. And you have 12V DC at pin 86. With the relay removed and the car set to run. You should have no power at #85 and #87.
> You should also have power at #30 -- that power should be constant (Ignition does not have to be in the run position.)
> 
> You have power to the ECU. Yes, a bad Digifant Control Unit (ECU)could cause the issues you are having. Check the several ground wires that attach to the coolant flange stud at the transmission end of the cylinder head. If those are broken or have a bad contact the ECU can be blown out. Once you know that those ground wires are in good shape with a clean connection you can try a different ECU. (It is cheaper to buy a used ECU than it is to pay a dealer to test one.)
> ...


I agree and would like to add emphasis to GROUNDS!!! Make sure you eliminate grounds being the issue. Far too many times have I discovered grounds to be the issue in many older cars. Grounds and connectors.


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*ground*

I have 12v at pin 86. I also have power at #30. I have power to the ECU. There are no grounds connected to the coolant flange. I have 12v at circuit 15 on the coil when trying to start. The ground connected the coil looks slightly bad. I repliaced to ground wire with a 10g braided wire. It did not fix the problem. I am going to try the ECU so I got one getting shipped to me. I do have the fuse box out of its bracket. I will make sure they are all good and put it in the fuse box in the bracket tommorrow.


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Great Job!! Things are becoming more clear.

There are supposed to be two or three brown/black and or black wires that connect to the lower stud of the coolant flange at the transmission end of the cylinder head. The brown/black wires come from pin 19 of the ECU connector and the O2 sensor. The black wire comes from the O2 sensor wiring shield. 

*Do not install your new ECU and try to start the car untill you locate those wires and assure that they are properly grounded. * 

Those wires are often forgotten when replacing a cylinder head and if they are not securely grounded the ECU will be shorted out. Sometimes they are connected elsewhere on the head if work has been done on the engine. It is important you find those wires. 

There is also a ground from pin 13 of the ECU harness connector that traces back to the battery ground with a brown wire. FR


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*coolant flange*

I miss read what you wrote about the coolant flange. I looked at the coolant resevoir. I do have 2 br/bk wires connected to the coolant flange. I also have a brown wire running back to the battery ground. I had someone suggest the cam position sensor. Could this cause the issue? Isnt the cam position sensor the knock sensor on a 92?


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Your car does not have a cam position sensor.

The knock sensor does what it's name implies -- it senses engine knocking and adjusts timing to eliminate it. 

Make sure that the grounds at the coolant flange are good and clean. Then give the ECU you have on the way a try. FR


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*ECU*

Replaced the ECU. Nothing. still only cranks, no spark, no fuel...any more ideas?


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Test the Hall Sender and the Ignition Control Unit (ICU) you can find instructions in a manual. You can borrow one from a library if you don't have one. FR


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*Sensors*

Any sensors that could cause this?


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## BigJ78 (Jun 6, 2008)

Check your ignition control module. My gti did the same thing I just replaced my ECU, ICM, knock box. Use your Bently If you have one it will walk you through every step you need to pin point your prob. It is a life saver...


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*Ignition control unit*

Replaced the ICU because I had no power to the hall sender and it did nothing. Car still doesnt run. Running out of things to replace...any more ideas?


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## veedubclub91 (Jan 5, 2004)

*Car works*

Im not sure what the original problem was but after replacing the ECU, ICU, Ignition switch, a couple relays and a couple grounds the car works now. Thanks everyone for your help!!


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

Glad something worked for you. You could always put your old parts back in the car and see what causes it not to run. I'd at least check out the ECU so you can keep it if it is still good. From personal experience the connections at the rear of the fuse and relay panel can cause problems. Make sure that you have the fuse and relay panel locked in place properly. It seats in the bracket and then the two white holding pins are installed and locked into place. FR


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## JohnScholl (Oct 25, 2009)

check fuses and wiring to fuel pump


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