# Whats up with this idle? Videos inside



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

UPDATE 4-3 

Seafoamed the car again and have exhaust leaks around the turbo. :facepalm: 
I am running no gasket between the turbo and mani and it is leaking there. Will put a gasket in. 
I have a gasket from IE at the vband and still have leaks there... :screwy: 

This is getting so old... what is the trick I am missing? 

Logs from 3-25 


















































Update 3-25. 
I was tinkering with some more things today trying to figure this out. 
This does not make sense.... 
If I hold the rpms at 2000 the A/F will go back and forth from 11.x to 17 and you can here the stumble in the exhaust as well as seeing the rpms fluctuating even if I don't move my foot. 
3000 rpms 12.x to 17 same rpm and exhaust tone fluctuation 
4000 rpms 13.x to 17 ^ 

What the heck is going on here it has me irritated beyond pissed off levels. 

Update 3-22 
I have all the exhaust, boost and vacuum leaks squared away. 

It is still acting funny at idle. 

I am 99.9% sure it is not the coils. Under load the car acts fine. 


At idle it smells rich, the A/F gauge is bouncing from 11 to 17. For a short time it will sit around 14.5... 

I have cleaned the IAT. It had some cake on it. 

I am thinking it has the be the MAP, IAT or O2. 

The O2 has less then 10k on it. The MAP and IAT are stock 100xxx miles... 


Anyone? 

 
 
 
 

Thought it was a leaking vband after the turbo, installed a gasket from IE. No more leak there but it is still acting up. 
Any thoughts


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

also if putting around, say driving around looking for a parking spot before classes the A/F gauge goes all over the place. 
It will go from 11.3 to off the charts. 
The car also jerks. 

I have thoughts it may be something with the injectors. 

I remember seeing a post awhile ago about the injectors being seated two far? 

Running 630's 
Eurodyne 630 file with all deletes.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

vagcom log blocks 
31 - AFR requested vs actual 
99 - real-time fuel regulation 
2 - injection time 
14 - misfires


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

elRey said:


> vagcom log blocks
> 31 - AFR requested vs actual
> 99 - real-time fuel regulation
> 2 - injection time
> 14 - misfires


 Thanks, 
I will check this out and try and get some logs up today.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Due to the weather I was unable to get logs. 

Gas mileage is also suffering. 230 miles and hovering on E


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## ornithology (May 6, 2009)

Subb'd


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

A friend of mine suggested coilpacks, I will try and get the logs driving to class today.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Post a quick list of your setup, i know i can find it but i am at work and cant browse much . 

I have the same problem when my Alpha N map is tweaked incorrectly in Maestro.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

All emissions is deleted and resistored off. 
Eurodyne 630 file, mafless, all deletes. 
Siemens 630cc's 
Walbro 225 
APR R1 after the TB vented to atmosphere 
BKR7E's @ .026 
3" intake w/ AEM dryflow. 
-4 AN oil feed, -10 drain 
EMUSA Turbo,


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> All emissions is deleted and resistored off.
> Eurodyne 630 file, mafless, all deletes.
> Siemens 630cc's
> Walbro 225
> ...


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Stock TB, Stock IM, No maestro. 
AWP motor. 

Edit 
Plans for the AEB head this summer, still stock now. 
I also believe the valve seals are a little leaky, after coming down a steep grade in gear I get a puff of smoke when I accelerate


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> Stock TB, Stock IM, No maestro.
> AWP motor.
> 
> Edit
> ...


 Tried replacing the front o2 sensor yet?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I have not, I will switch it with the wide band one first. . 
If the A/f is acting weird when the car does would that mean they are both good or bad?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> I have not, I will switch it with the wide band one first. .
> If the A/f is acting weird when the car does would that mean they are both good or bad?


 means they are both good.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Well the battery died while logging, 
I cant get 14 to log, it just says disabled. 
However I viewed it with vag-scope and the graph was all over the place.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Will try cleaning the IAT sensor also. 

Driving 400 + miles this weekend so I want to get it figured out


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> Will try cleaning the IAT sensor also.
> 
> Driving 400 + miles this weekend so I want to get it figured out


 Did you look into the injector spacers? There was a thread not too far back with a guy that had the same problem. I dont think he had the exact same setup, but it was the same tune. 

His was an idle problem as well, i dont recall him saying anything about his a/f though; dont know if he had one or just didnt mention it 

EDIT: Also, like others have said, i've seen a few people have to replace their o2 sensor and that fixed the idle.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I remember that thread also, can't find it. :facepalm: 

I have the spacers that came with the ecs fuel rail spacer kit. 

I remember that thread mentioning something about the injectors having two spaces to seat. 

If anyone has that bookmarked or saved please post it.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> I remember that thread also, can't find it. :facepalm:
> 
> I have the spacers that came with the ecs fuel rail spacer kit.
> 
> ...


 I just looked for it, but cant find it, ill try a few different key words. I cant remember if he had eurodyne or uni. I know he had 630cc injectors and a mafless tune. Let me take a look around. 



EDIT: From what i've seen, people have said it can be anything from a vac leak, to an exhaust leak, to a leaky injector (o-ring), etc. I would give the injectors a spray while the car is running and if it bogs, you know there is a leak there.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

For some reason misfire recognition will not enable.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> For some reason misfire recognition will not enable.


 it wont, mine has not worked since having eurodyne for some reason. Wondering if its because we're mafless.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

that thought crossed my mind, how do we log misfires then?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> that thought crossed my mind, how do we log misfires then?


 Possible the error count in maestro log, but i havent confirmed since i dont misfire 

Turn the car on, have someone check error count in maestro and unplug a coilpack haha


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

don't have maestro :banghead: 

It sounds like it is ticking when the idle dips. 
you can kind of here it in the video


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

Timing


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

hootyburra said:


> also if putting around, say driving around looking for a parking spot before classes the A/F gauge goes all over the place.
> It will go from 11.3 to off the charts.
> The car also jerks.
> 
> ...


 I have the same problem as you man. I've tried everything recommended in this thread with no luck. checked for vac/boost leaks, pre o2 exhaust leaks, changed o2 sensor, adjusted timing, adjusted fuel trims. I noticed that adjusting primary fuel via lemmi/uni settings will help smooth out idle and partial throttle a little. 
I also got the correct fuel rail spacers from SAVwKO when he was still with HS Tuning. 
I'm starting to believe that the culprit is either bad injectors or a bad tune


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I will have to mess with the fuel trims, can you use lemmiwinks or a similar program w/ eurodynes tune? 

I can't imagine it being timing, I haven't touched that, and it seems to be fine under load. 

A buddy of mine is suggesting coilpacks... 

Also for the amount of these injectors sold if there was an issue I think we would have known about it already.


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Yes, I use UNI settings with Eurodyne and it works fine. I can't afford Maestro yet:laugh:. 
I doubt its timing either but I have added timing for other reasons but it didn't solve this issue. I have tried both OEM and Hitachi E coilpacks with no difference. This problem started after I went BT but before that everything was fine. Like I said man, I've tried everything


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I will keep you posted if I find anything, any other eurodyne users car to chime in? 

Also Tea, what is your plug gap?


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Bkr7e gapped @ .028


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

same here, I'm going to change the plugs, check the injectors and make sure they are in the first notch, and take it from there. 

Thanks for all the help so far.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

gas mileage is up from 20 to 24 mpg avg speed 70


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

:thumbup:


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> :thumbup:


s0 what was it?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

It is still acting up, It was more pronounced today.... lots of moisture... leads me to believe it's coilpacks. Time to make the codes appear and have the dealer warranty them


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> It is still acting up, It was more pronounced today.... lots of moisture... leads me to believe it's coilpacks. Time to make the codes appear and have the dealer warranty them


Let us know if this fixes it, kinda interested on what it is.


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## BlancoNino (May 27, 2004)

eh. if the car drives fine than don't worry about... My Uni mafless file never idles perfect, but the car drives great and makes power so it keeps me happy


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

BlancoNino said:


> eh. if the car drives fine than don't worry about... My Uni mafless file never idles perfect, but the car drives great and makes power so it keeps me happy


^ makes zero sense:sly: I don't know about you, but I like when my car drives like it was stock:thumbdown:


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

There's a recall on the coilovers. If you have any other version then the NEWEST version D then they replace them.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

NFrazier said:


> There's a recall on the coilovers. If you have any other version then the NEWEST version D then they replace them.


Sweet I have been wanting a new suspension. 

I kid I kid. :laugh:

So if the part number doesn't end in D they don't even scan the car? They just put new ones in..


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> Sweet I have been wanting a new suspension.
> 
> I kid I kid. :laugh:
> 
> So if the part number doesn't end in D they don't even scan the car? They just put new ones in..


My bad, I had coilovers on the brain. Correct. It's a recall. So if your car is within the recall (which pretty much all 1.8t's were recalled) then you come in, they replace them. My car is chipped, exhaust, etc. and i had no problem.


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## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

I had the exact same problem as you. Im on the uni 630 mafless tune with everything deleted and my car would never idle properly. Had missfires on idle. I keep telling people that those seimens 630's have crap spray pattern for the 1.8t's. After i went through 3 sets thinking i got a bad batch of them, i got rid of them and tried some genesis 550's along with a 4 bar FPR and the problems dissapeared right on the first start. My car now idles better than stock. Consistently at 14.6 - 15.1 on my AF gauge on idle. No missfires at all anymore. 
Worth a try, im pretty sure that is what your problem is.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

ghettojetta20vT said:


> I had the exact same problem as you. Im on the uni 630 mafless tune with everything deleted and my car would never idle properly. Had missfires on idle. I keep telling people that those seimens 630's have crap spray pattern for the 1.8t's. After i went through 3 sets thinking i got a bad batch of them, i got rid of them and tried some genesis 550's along with a 4 bar FPR and the problems dissapeared right on the first start. My car now idles better than stock. Consistently at 14.6 - 15.1 on my AF gauge on idle. No missfires at all anymore.
> Worth a try, im pretty sure that is what your problem is.


I have the same problem right now after my 70mm TB. I ordered some Injector Dynamics 725cc injectors that come with battery voltage compensation values to try.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Have an appointment Monday evening to get new coilpacks, I will take it from there.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

hootyburra said:


> I will keep you posted if I find anything, any other eurodyne users car to chime in?
> 
> Also Tea, what is your plug gap?


I'd seafoam it, check all your hardware bolts, difficult to say from the videos but sounds possibly like a leak which could give all the symptoms you are experiencing. I wouldn't worry to much about the 630's seaing. For reassurance take long tube and hold it up to each injector listening for an leaks or soapy water around the base. People have been running 630's for years with minimal issues, same with your base 630cc tune. I've always run the BKRE7 (or 6 whichever is colder)gapped around .028 with no issues.


In my experience coils going bad will cause you to run noticabley very rich, loss of power, often make a BR-BR-BR-BR sound under load when missfiring. If your on original coils or old versions you may want to replace them. The last revision R coil is much more reliable then the older ones.


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Okay hooty, another attempt to figure this problem out. I've been trolling Honda-Tech, sr20forum, ls1tech, etc. etc. and from what I've read and expected a BOV and/or vented to atmosphere DV SHOULD be closed at idle. I see you're running the APR R1 vented to atmosphere which is more than likely open at idle. You can check to see by putting your hand over the open port on the DV and feel air blowing out. 

Now this is where I need the turbo gurus to chime in. On a MAFless BT file, why would it matter if the BOV was slightly open at idle? I mean without a MAF, none of the air leaking from the BOV is metered not unless the MAP sensor would have anything to do with it?? 



hootyburra said:


> also if putting around, say driving around looking for a parking spot before classes the A/F gauge goes all over the place.


This is going to sound retarded but here goes... 
With everything just said about open BOV's/DV's, say you're putting around MLK looking for hookers while still in vacuum. Even though you're still in vacuum you can apply throttle and gain speed without going into positive boost pressure. My main point is, at part throttle and while still in vacuum with a BOV/DV that's open that would technically be considered a boost leak, right?

I'm running a 50mm Tial with the -18 through -21 in/Hg spring and see vacuum levels of -21 and -22 in/Hg while idling or cruising, maybe even -23 on hard decel. Tomorrow I'm going to disconnect the vac line on the BOV and let it idle for a bit and see if it continues. I'll keep you guys posted. :beer:


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## LouieTHEkid (Jan 27, 2007)

Timing Chain tensioner? You said you're hearing taping. and if your seals are going as well. Its possible


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

NFrazier said:


> There's a recall on the coils. If you have any other version then the NEWEST version D then they replace them.


Depends on the dealer. Most recalls last 7 years so his 337 is out. They will also need a scan showing missfires to be compensated for warranty claim. That is the standard procedure there are exceptions to the rules, I saw a original owner mk2 have her heater core replaced under warranty after nearly 18 years. 

And D is not the newest version unless I'm way out of the loop. Pretty sure D,E,L and some others are all old versions.

If coils are the problem you would have soot all over your rear bumper most likely.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

TeaEightySix said:


> Okay hooty, another attempt to figure this problem out. I've been trolling Honda-Tech, sr20forum, ls1tech, etc. etc. and from what I've read and expected a BOV and/or vented to atmosphere DV SHOULD be closed at idle. I see you're running the APR R1 vented to atmosphere which is more than likely open at idle. You can check to see by putting your hand over the open port on the DV and feel air blowing out.
> 
> Now this is where I need the turbo gurus to chime in. On a MAFless BT file, why would it matter if the BOV was slightly open at idle? I mean without a MAF, none of the air leaking from the BOV is metered not unless the MAP sensor would have anything to do with it??
> 
> ...


I understand where your coming from, but with a mafless file it shouldn't matter if he has a bov. Now if its leaking under idle, that is still a boost leak. It could be causing the problem. +1 to check the dv bro. It is such a simple thing, but I think the easier stuff to check is the best, and usual the cheapest.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Zneith said:


> I understand where your coming from, but with a mafless file it shouldn't matter if he has a bov. Now if its leaking under idle, that is still a boost leak. It could be causing the problem. +1 to check the dv bro. It is such a simple thing, but I think the easier stuff to check is the best, and usual the cheapest.


MY DV has always stays open under idle. thats how it keeps it in vacuum.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> MY DV has always stays open under idle. thats how it keeps it in vacuum.


Wouldn't that be considered a boost leak? I understand that it won't act like it would if you had a maf (stalling out on decel etc), but how would a leaking dv keep your idle steady? I have my n249 bypassed and my old dv line I had capped off. I was dicking around one night, popped a cel and the first thing i check is the simple stuff. I saw the cap got blown off, my idle was iffy, and like i said, the cel was there. Wouldn't this be somewhat the same deal?

I then think about what I just said, and DV's are supposed to be open at idle.... they close when you build boost correct? Geeze, I gotta stop contradicting myself:laugh:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Ya, it builds boost when they are closed. So if the DV was closed at idle wouldnt it try to build boost? 

On a MAF style setup the DV air is entered back into the TIP after the MAF because the DV is open and has to re-route the air back in cause it was read by the MAF.

It would be considered a boost leak on a MAF setup.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> Ya, it builds boost when they are closed. So if the DV was closed at idle wouldnt it try to build boost?
> 
> On a MAF style setup the DV air is entered back into the TIP after the MAF because the DV is open and has to re-route the air back in cause it was read by the MAF.
> 
> It would be considered a boost leak on a MAF setup.


Yep, thanks for making me feel stupid for the day:facepalm: That all makes sense now haha.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Zneith said:


> Yep, thanks for making me feel stupid for the day:facepalm: That all makes sense now haha.


LOL everyone has those moments :thumbup:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dub-Nub said:


> Ya, it builds boost when they are closed. So if the DV was closed at idle wouldnt it try to build boost?
> 
> On a MAF style setup the DV air is entered back into the TIP after the MAF because the DV is open and has to re-route the air back in cause it was read by the MAF.
> 
> It would be considered a boost leak on a MAF setup.


No, that is what the wastegate is for. Your DV is closed at idle. The car can build boost at idle. Rev it up to 4000 it will build boost. The DV/Bov only opens when the throttle plate closes allowing the pressure from the 15000RPM turbo to go somewhere. All valves should be closed at idle. Diaphragm valves like the oem/forge/APR are much more susceptible to leaking at idle as opposed to a piston valve.

A leak is a leak, it doesn't matter if your MAF or MAFless. It doesn't affect MAFless cars as much because they are running off of preset values where MAF is seeing X amount of air at the sensor and its not corresponding with the o2 readings.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Maybe my understanding is incorrect then. I always thought the wastegate keeps the turbo from overboosting by bypassing gases while under boost.

On my k03s ive revved the car to 4k and it built 1 psi of boost due to the valve closing quickly. If you rev the engine to 4k and keep it steady at 4k at idle it does not build boost, atleast it has never for me even with the stock car.

Ill get my buddy with a recirculated DV to remove his hose going to intercooler and see what its like at idle.


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## ForVWLife (Nov 12, 2004)

OP...try unplugging primary o2 sensor and then watch your afr gauge

if it doesnt do it when its not plugged in then its most likely a bad o2 sensor


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

Dub-Nub said:


> Maybe my understanding is incorrect then. I always thought the wastegate keeps the turbo from overboosting by bypassing gases while under boost.
> 
> On my k03s ive revved the car to 4k and it built 1 psi of boost due to the valve closing quickly. If you rev the engine to 4k and keep it steady at 4k at idle it does not build boost, atleast it has never for me even with the stock car.
> 
> Ill get my buddy with a recirculated DV to remove his hose going to intercooler and see what its like at idle.


Not entirely your on track for the most part. Yes wastegate vents excess boost, but the DV/bov is closed at idle and crusing it should only open when the throttle body is closing (keep in mind the thottle angle can be constanlty changing depending on engine load, so your DV/bov can open as RPM increase and load decreases). 

EDIT: I believe if your using the N249 solenoid it will vent boost off as well if you attained the target psi the car is looking for.

FWIW. My car gained .5-1psi of boost @ redline by switching to a piston valve.

The reason I suggest other things is I've had 2 oem valves go bad and they never did what OP is experiencing, although that doesn't mean that isn't the problem. In my experience a slightly leaking DV won't make the car run totally stupid, maybe some hiccups at idle.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

ForVWLife said:


> OP...try unplugging primary o2 sensor and then watch your afr gauge
> 
> if it doesnt do it when its not plugged in then its most likely a bad o2 sensor


His MAFless car will idle & drive extermely poor or most likely not at all w/o a front 02.

Try it but like I said sounds like hardware to me but I'm only internet diagnosing.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Well that gave me some reading material for the today... 

Thanks for all the info. I am going to check the DV today. 

I really don't even what to think about it being the cam chain tensioner...

I have some seafoam left, when I go home this weekend I will check that out if I have time. 


Thank you for all the information and advice so far, I will keep this updated with results.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> Well that gave me some reading material for the today...
> 
> Thanks for all the info. I am going to check the DV today.
> 
> ...


put a cap on your DV outlet so no air escapes and see if that helps, make sure someone is inside the car in case something goes wrong.


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## ForVWLife (Nov 12, 2004)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> His MAFless car will idle & drive extermely poor or most likely not at all w/o a front 02.
> 
> Try it but like I said sounds like hardware to me but I'm only internet diagnosing.


i am just saying that you should try this at idle when he notices it is bouncing around

may be not the same issue but when i got my car running it wouldnt idle at all...bounced around alot and during the troubleshooting we unhooked the primary o2 and let the car idle

my afr gauge read perfect and it was a bad o2 sensor...replaced it and never had an issue

i def wouldnt drive around with it unconnected tho


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

ghettojetta20vT said:


> just and update, i had to bring the idle torque to +25 and also raised the idle rpm by 90 in unisettings as recommended by DonR , and now the missfires are gone (what can i say, the man knows his stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ). He also said that i might have gotten a bad batch of injectors since the missfires only happen in cylinder 2 and 4. Im going to try to swap them this thursday to different cylinders and then check if the missfires follow the injectors. I will update .


I know this is based off a UNI tune but it doesn't hurt to try right? 

Found in this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...NI-630-File...-Part-II&highlight=630+misfires


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

adjusting that made no difference.


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## supermega1 (Oct 27, 2006)

I notice your idle rpm is low. Have you tried upping your idle rpm offset using lemminwinks or unisettings. I upped mine because I was having a similar issue, put it into a range that caused a vibration because of the VF mounts and upped it some more and now no problems. 

I am using a +300 offset in unisettings. When I run it at stock with my setup it kinda sounds like yours. Seems like its always searching for a steady rpm range.

Worth a try. good luck


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I have it at +90 right now. Wwill try upping it some more. did you adjust the idle torque at all?


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## supermega1 (Oct 27, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> I have it at +90 right now. Wwill try upping it some more. did you adjust the idle torque at all?


Nope only thing I changed was the idle offset.

+100 = idled decent but was still funky
+200 = good idle, bad vibration due to the VF motor/tranny mounts
+300 = idled steady no vibrations.

ATP V1 2871R Eliminator Kit with 550cc Genesis injectors and all supporting fun bits.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Raised the RPM's to +150 and that helped alot...

I also was looking at block 32(fueling) Idle is -4.7 and run is 7.8, should I tweak these? If so + or -?


I have read through this but still unsure. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2982006
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1618056


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

:thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

idle should be 840-900 roughly for stock. your car should idle fine there. 

what is your actual idle currently? you should do andvanced measuring blocks and watch some other tidbits.

hardware issues are the problem hear..tweaking is just covering the problem.


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## xtremvw2 (Nov 27, 2010)

if your running mafless where is the connector for the maf? just hanging there? had that problem in the past
took forever to figure it out, take that connector blow it dry and wrap it and put it in where it will not get direct water
fixed everything for me. might be that, or simply in the mapping.. if you don't have maestro then you need to
log it and send it to Eurodyne they will re send another file if that is the problem


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I have the MAF connector tucked away in the back corner of the bay. 
I will give that a shot, trying all options at this point. 

Going to change the plugs with some others I had laying around today.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Pictures of plugs. 






I checked the MAF harness it is dry and no signs of moisture. 


***
I did notice something very interesting. When I cupped the DV with my hand to seal it, it made no difference. Here is the interesting part: I put my finger in to fell if there was good pressure on the spring and and valve is moving up and down while the idle is changing..... :screwy:
*****

I ran a small amount of SeaFoam through the TB port and noticed a very minimal amount of smoke coming from the exhaust manifold area. The V-band appears to be sealed.


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## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

i will say it again. *Injectors*


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I will pull them when I get time and have a look at the o-rings and such...

the vacuum gauge is moving between 15-20 at idle, it holds a steady 25 on decel. 

After the car warms up fully the idle stays closer to 20


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> I will pull them when I get time and have a look at the o-rings and such...
> 
> the vacuum gauge is moving between 15-20 at idle, it holds a steady 25 on decel.
> 
> After the car warms up fully the idle stays closer to 20


That's normal, what brand injectors do u have?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

NFrazier said:


> That's normal, what brand injectors do u have?


Siemens


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> Siemens


IIRC some people had issues with siemens injectors' spray pattern.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

NFrazier said:


> IIRC some people had issues with siemens injectors' spray pattern.


I remember reading about this, anyway to tell by looking at the injector; a revision # or something?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

well I was told the revision R packs are not part of the recall, I did get a new brake light switch though. :facepalm:


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> well I was told the revision R packs are not part of the recall, I did get a new brake light switch though. :facepalm:


Haha, that's funny because I took my car in with revision R coilpacks and was frantically trying to find my old ones to get replaced so I didn't lose those...they replaced them anyway. I hate dealerships.

I just believe it is the spray pattern of the injector.

EDIT: Here it is: http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10_44

As you see our injectors are supposed to have a V pattern, the siemens don't. I bet if you switch to a genesis set you'll be fine.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

NFrazier said:


> IIRC some people had issues with siemens injectors' spray pattern.


i heard about this as well a while back, it made me almost not want to get them but mine work fine (i think) LOL


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Will it cause any harm long harm?


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## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

yeah, that's what im trying to point out. The seimens injectors are not great for 1.8T heads. Just get some 550cc genesis injectors and run a 4 bar FPR to compensate. I have been running that setup on my 3071r setup with no problems for 2 years now. Daily driver car too.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

NFrazier said:


> Haha, that's funny because I took my car in with revision R coilpacks and was frantically trying to find my old ones to get replaced so I didn't lose those...they replaced them anyway. I hate dealerships.
> 
> I just believe it is the spray pattern of the injector.
> 
> ...



The V pattern is nice on a 16v head, but what about 20v? If its a V pattern then only the outer valves are getting hit with fuel, what about the middle intake?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

looking at the pic on the us rally team site, my injectors are all black...
The only pic I can find, not a very good one


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I wish I could find that thread in here regarding the rough idle because of the injector sitting in the wrong notch.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> I wish I could find that thread in here regarding the rough idle because of the injector sitting in the wrong notch.


I looked over the weekend, still don't see it. Searched with various key words to no prevail.


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

ghettojetta20vT said:


> i will say it again. *Injectors*


 i'm starting to believe this too


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

just waste the 200 bucks and buy genesis, see if it solves your problem. while your at it, for like 12 bucks, pick up new o rings and retainers for the injectors.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Send me the 200 and I will change them out.


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

Have you had time yet to check the injectors? 1st notch..


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I have not, I only have a small tool bag I brought to my apartment, forgot the allen kit. 
I am also fairly busy with school and don't have a garage like I do at home. 

I will make sure they are all in the first notch.


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> Send me the 200 and I will change them out.


First rule, if you don't have the money to fix things, don't do upgrades. You bought a larger turbo, manifold, fueling, etc. but you don't have 200 bones to attempt to fix the problem. Resale of injectors are good, so you won't loose much, if any (get a used set).


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

NFrazier said:


> First rule, if you don't have the money to fix things, don't do upgrades. You bought a larger turbo, manifold, fueling, etc. but you don't have 200 bones to attempt to fix the problem. Resale of injectors are good, so you won't loose much, if any (get a used set).


because throwing parts at a problem is an acceptable diagnosis? I think having a understanding of the problem and proving it is often better than just buying parts.

my $.02

And to the guy who said just get 550cc's and be done with it, have you read about this setup? I am pretty sure he has 1200's now, cutting fueling in half isn't usually viable option.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

ejg3855 said:


> because throwing parts at a problem is an acceptable diagnosis? I think having a understanding of the problem and proving it is often better than just buying parts.
> 
> my $.02
> 
> And to the guy who said just get 550cc's and be done with it, have you read about this setup? I am pretty sure he has 1200's now, cutting fueling in half isn't usually viable option.


everything but last line is correct

All emissions is deleted and resistored off.
Eurodyne 630 file, mafless, all deletes.
Siemens 630cc's
Walbro 225
APR R1 after the TB vented to atmosphere
BKR7E's @ .026
3" intake w/ AEM dryflow.
-4 AN oil feed, -10 drain
EMUSA Turbo,


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

NFrazier said:


> First rule, if you don't have the money to fix things, don't do upgrades. You bought a larger turbo, manifold, fueling, etc. but you don't have 200 bones to attempt to fix the problem. Resale of injectors are good, so you won't loose much, if any (get a used set).


I never said I don't have it, I'm not going to drop $200 on injectors until I am certain on the problem. 

I still have not figured out why the DV is opening and closing at idle.


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

How do you know the DV is opening @ idle or your wastegate...?

It's not throwing parts at it when it's more then likely the problem. I can understand if he did absolutely nothing and I said buy injectors, a MAF, a DV, an N75 and start replacing, see what happens.

I did not say that. Especially when SIEMENS are KNOWN to have spray patterns that are different from factory.


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

hootyburra said:


> I never said I don't have it, I'm not going to drop $200 on injectors until I am certain on the problem.
> 
> I still have not figured out why the DV is opening and closing at idle.


I doubt it's the DV now. I added shims to my BOV to make sure it stayed closed at idle and i'm still having this problem. If I were going to drop money on another set of injectors it's def not going to be the semen 630's again...


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I put my finger in the bottom of the DV and could feel the piston moving up and down


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> I never said I don't have it, I'm not going to drop $200 on injectors until I am certain on the problem.
> 
> I still have not figured out why the DV is opening and closing at idle.


it was prob opening and closing because of ur bouncy idle. my greddy opens a little too when my idle is not smooth. when its smooth, it stays closed. i could tighten it down more to make it stay shut, but my car is mafless so it really doenst matter. i kinda think its injectors too, but i feel you on not wanting to drop $200+ on a hunch


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## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

i had that same hunch and did buy them. I figured if that wasn't the problem i would just re- sell them. Hell you can just sell your 630's and pretty much cover the cost of the genesis ones. I sold my old seimens for 180 bucks. Best decision by far when it comes to car upgrades.

Oh a btw i agree with Nfrazier. If you don't have the money to properly get your car running in tip top shape after major mods (ie BT) you should not be making those mods in the first place.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Searching the classifieds for injectors. 

All I am finding are siemens, is there a reason for that :facepalm:


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> Searching the classifieds for injectors.
> 
> All I am finding are siemens, is there a reason for that :facepalm:


I'd hate to say this, but when I go for injectors and a tune, I'm definitely not going with seimens....


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Well i was going to install my new Injector Dynamics inejctors to see if this solves my idle dip issue but they sent me 1000cc injectors instead of 725 . Hopefully i will have the 725 by the end of the week.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

@ zenith there are some great deals on 630 files in the fi classifieds


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Dub-Nub said:


> Well i was going to install my new Injector Dynamics inejctors to see if this solves my idle dip issue but they sent me 1000cc injectors instead of 725 . Hopefully i will have the 725 by the end of the week.


 time for E85?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

TeaEightySix said:


> time for E85?


:laugh: no

The guys at T1race development had a mix up with my order. They are sending me some 725 cc to arrive by Friday so i should have them installed over the weekend.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

how do you switch between files on eurodyne?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Dub-Nub said:


> everything but last line is correct
> 
> All emissions is deleted and resistored off.
> Eurodyne 630 file, mafless, all deletes.
> ...


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> how do you switch between files on eurodyne?


What do you by files? Like different .tapp files or just race map vs pump map?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> What do you by files? Like different .tapp files or just race map vs pump map?


maps. 
The guy I bought it from said it had a 104 tune and I just want to make sure that for some reason i am not in that, if I were i feel that I would have found out a long time ago.

I know it is holding the cruise but can't remember what or how long


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> maps.
> The guy I bought it from said it had a 104 tune and I just want to make sure that for some reason i am not in that, if I were i feel that I would have found out a long time ago.
> 
> I know it is holding the cruise but can't remember what or how long


You have PM


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

replied. 


Found this with a google search of genesis 630cc

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=809&sid=8f60516cb6576798c2bd4e7225638eb2

Found this 


[email protected] said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Genesis 550cc injectors w/ 4bar FPR = $390
> Siemens 630cc injectors = $275
> I guess I am a bit confused as to why you would run want to run a smaller injectors with a 4bar that costs over $100 more to achieve an overall flow that can be had with a less expensive injector.
> 
> ...


from here
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...njectors-instead-of-Siemens-630cc-(unitronic)


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> @ zenith there are some great deals on 630 files in the fi classifieds


Thanks man:thumbup:

I have a feeling Ill be getting tuning straight out from eurodyne. I really dont want to deal with IMMO defeat and such. 

Injectors; im more skeptical now about going with seimens.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

More from the eurodyne thread




> Re: Idle Issues, O2 Correction
> 
> Postby silveratljetta » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:51 pm
> I apologize for not having time to take some idle logs.
> ...





> Re: Idle Issues, O2 Correction
> 
> Postby screwball » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:30 pm
> I don't think he does, but the 630 file's got the most users so it's prolly best to stay there. On Unitronic (eeeEEEKKK!) I ran 550s at 4bar and the car ran flawlessly throughout the rev range.





> I'm running the Genesis 550cc's. I got so sick of my garbage idle and poor cold-running conditions that I decided to ditch the 630's
> 
> Immediately after I installed them the car idled smoother and the car seemed to pull through the RPM band a lot smoother.





> I installed Genesis 550's yesterday @ 3bar. scaled them with maestro. Idle still hums a little bit, but not as nasty as it was with the 630's. Waiting on my 4bar FPR to get here tomorrow and ill bump them to 4 bar at the rail. They flow 635cc/min @4bar so it's not a drop in fueling. Should increase gas mileage/overall efficiency though.



Looks like I'm ordering 550's


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Zneith said:


> Thanks man:thumbup:
> 
> I have a feeling Ill be getting tuning straight out from eurodyne. I really dont want to deal with IMMO defeat and such.
> 
> Injectors; im more skeptical now about going with seimens.


after reading what I just posted you will really start to wonder. 

..... This appears to be a hit or miss issue


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> after reading what I just posted you will really start to wonder.
> 
> ..... This appears to be a hit or miss issue


That's what is so confusing. I've read other BT threads and they are running seimens flawlessly. I'm thinking that there are a few bad batches out there. Knowing my luck and obviously yours, ill get the ones that are DOA.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

after talking to a friend who is very knowledgeable with 1.8ts it was suggested to pressure test again and change that front o2 sensor. 

He has never had an issue with the 630's. I will do some more investigating and report back


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> after talking to a friend who is very knowledgeable with 1.8ts it was suggested to pressure test again and change that front o2 sensor.
> 
> He has never had an issue with the 630's. I will do some more investigating and report back


:thumbup:


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

hootyburra said:


> after reading what I just posted you will really start to wonder.
> 
> ..... This appears to be a hit or miss issue


 Hmmmmm I think we were the lucky ones to get the bad batches. The good thing is we realized the problem and are now trying to resolve it. Lemme know if swapping the injectors work :thumbup:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

TeaEightySix said:


> Hmmmmm I think we were the lucky ones to get the bad batches. The good thing is we realized the problem and are now trying to resolve it. Lemme know if swapping the injectors work :thumbup:


I'm going to pressure test it again and quadruple check everything before I go with the injectors.


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

:thumbup:


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

+1

SAME F*** PROBLEM....

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5189041-TB-glitching-at-idle..ideas-HELP-PLEASE

My setup...GT3071R 630cc eurodyne...but MAF (did you know that the eurodyne files are MAF and MAFLESS???.....that told me the dealer..would be true??)

*Have a question about spacers...wich should be the mesures of it???..maybe I have a leak there*

Any way....waiting to see the test of the 550 + 4 bar FPR..the nice thing if it works..I already have the 4 bar FPR...

Thanks god I'm not the only one with this problem....after reading the whole post maybe...those deka siemens are the problem...

Good luck with the test...seems that genesis will have a rise on its demand for 550 inj...

Rolo


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Step 1: Remove Siemens 630cc injectors
Step 2: Install Injector Dynamics 715cc injectors
Step 3: dont have idle bounce issues

Done and over with, so glad i dont have idle dip anymore.


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> it wont, mine has not worked since having eurodyne for some reason. Wondering if its because we're mafless.





hootyburra said:


> For some reason misfire recognition will not enable.


This is because in the base file is disabeled....don't know why but that's the reason why you can't log at it...


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

RoloGTI said:


> This is because in the base file is disabeled....don't know why but that's the reason why you can't log at it...


Even enabling misfire recognition it doesn't do anything. At least not in the old versions. I haven't attempted to re-enable it with all the updates that have been happening.


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## RoloGTI (Sep 7, 2008)

Dub-Nub said:


> Even enabling misfire recognition it doesn't do anything. At least not in the old versions. I haven't attempted to re-enable it with all the updates that have been happening.


Fail...my great addition to the post..hahahaha...

Maybe this will help you guys...I have the same problem, and what I have done until now...

1) Connect the MAF, this makes the car runs better in idle, and that way you can know if you have a leak, why?

http://www.ross-tech.net/vag-com/advertising/DiagnosingA_MAF_TechTip.pdf

Check that out, can give you a few tips....

2)The o2 or wideband or whatever, the first o2 sensor that goes after the turbo is the one that is used to regulate the mixture (AFR), for what I have seen is very strong but it fails when: 1) the car is running too rich, 2) when you are running a huge ammount of meth 3) when you are burning some oil, 4) when you take it out and hit it with something...I have this wrong, I change it, the problem began to fix, but still there...a way to see if the O2 is wrong is to unplug the sensor (the ECU would asume a fix value), if the value is near 14.7 in the afr or steady, the problem might be the O2 sensor...

3) The same with other sensors, unplug a sensor, start the engine and wait a few minutes, if that sensor was initialy working wrong or sensind the wrong values, the car should idle better, I`ve done it with: Coolant, MAP, MAF, IAT, VVT or whatever the name actuator, and cam position...you can't do it with the sensor that goes down near the gearbox, the car would not start...if with some of those the sensor disconnected the car runs better, there is a huge probability to have that sensor wrong...(disconnect the sensor, start the engine wait a few minutes...the lambda starts operating after a while)

4) Check wires, the autodata 2008 is a GREAT source, with the cur running check the voltage that should receive each sensor (unplug it and with the car running), also check continuity (from the ECU harnes to the connector), and check the sensors that you can check

5) With a cheap manometer check the fuel pressure...diconnect the hose that goes into the fuel rail and check pressure there...with the vac connected to the FPR at idle you should messure 2.5 bar, if you disconnect it you should messure 3 bar (if it is a FPR of 4 bar it should be 3.5 and 4)...in my case with the walbro disconnected I messure about 2.4 bar and 2.9 bar, connected about 2.52 and 3.02..weird but in tyhe limits

6) Check with someone else TB, if all works fine...ups it's not cheap...

7) Use another ECU with the same file or the same type...for example I have eurodyne...a friend of mine has a UNI 630, we switch them...if your friend ecu works fine...2 chances...you could have something unpluged or your ECU RIP, if in your friends car (that runs OK at the beginning) your ECU runs the same wrong...again RIP...BUT if your friends ECU in your car runs the same in idle...your problem is mechanical not logical...

8) Check for grounds most of you when you build a BT you take the engine out...check that...could be there a problem

9) Spacers, are they the right ones?

10) BT usualy runs Ok with minor leaks, but when the leak is from the TB to the inside is a problem, check que TB (is tight up?), the mani to the head, the gasket (if you have a power gasket try taking it out), also check these....

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--1.8T/Engine/Fuel/ES5289/

11) Of course, check for leaks in all your vacum lines (gauge, FPR, AVCR, DV, etc)

I have checked all of that...and still have the same problem....the only issue left....SIEMENS????.

Hope all I have done help someone...

Rolo


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

To be quite honest, I have idle dip as well and I had already ordered new seats and o-rings (as my car is stock besides stg 2 uni, evoms v flow, and 42dd tbe.

At first I thought it was tb issues, realigned, no difference. Took a gander at my injector seats and there's some leakage around acouple of them. just another .02


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Thank you for the excellent info Rolo

:beer::beer:


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Dub-Nub said:


> Step 1: Remove Siemens 630cc injectors
> Step 2: Install Injector Dynamics 715cc injectors
> Step 3: dont have idle bounce issues
> 
> Done and over with, so glad i dont have idle dip anymore.


 how does the car run with 715cc injectors on the 630cc file? how much fuel pressure too.:thumbup:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

TeaEightySix said:


> how does the car run with 715cc injectors on the 630cc file? how much fuel pressure too.:thumbup:


i adjusted the file for the 715 injectors. Using 3 bar fpr. Its running good, i need to play around with the injector constant still, but its definately idling much better.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Idle +150 idle tq+5 
Idle is holding steady at 1000 occasionally going to 1040

Viewing block 31 the first Lamba Factor is between .97x and 1.03x

Block 99 Coolant temp is at 91C; pre cat O2 is between -3.5% and 2.5% O2 reg is on 

Block 2 engine load is between 27.1% and 30.x% inj. period is between 1.36ms and 1.7ms 

There is a slight hickup in the exhaust note every few seconds. 
The A/F is betwwen 14.4 and 15.1 on the AEM 

The temperature here is around 53F

I have looked over everything again, don't see any issues. 

I will pressure test it tomorrow or saturday.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

pressure tested and can here to leaks @ 10 psi. 

Will patch them up and see what happens


----------



## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

opcorn:


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

had to order more tbolt clamps and a new coupler from siliconeintakes


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

just to clarify that are we talking about here with the idle?... that its dropping and the car is feeling like its going to stall out?

or are we talking about the car sporadically reving....


----------



## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

duke_seb said:


> just to clarify that are we talking about here with the idle?... that its dropping and the car is feeling like its going to stall out?
> 
> or are we talking about the car sporadically reving....


idling issue is whats being discussed. I had the same thing on my apr stage 2. I am moving up to a eurodyne 630cc mafless file with seimens 630cc injectors, lets see if i have the same problem


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Car does not seem at all like it is going to stall. 
Just a slight hickup. 
Still waiting on new clamps and a coupler to fix up the leak. 



On a side note I have also noticed a ticking/clicking/something under light acceleration that I can no longer heat above 3700. I don't know if it stops or is being drowned out by the exhaust. 
I pulled the timing belt cover and examined the belt, noticed nothing at all... 
Any ideas 
Car behaves normal otherwise judging by how it acted against the speed3 hatch coming off the ramp today


----------



## abramite1040 (May 21, 2010)

Been watching this thread, I have the same bouncing idle but I don't have a BT, I have a ko3s with a giac chip ... I was thinking maybe exhaust leak ... I can smell some fumes when I put my face near the turbo 

Or perhaps pre cat 02 was my other guess.

Any suggestions?


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Now I here a pronounced leak that sounds like exhaust. 
I had the car running for like a minute and thought the vband may have came loose so I jumped out and grabbed the DP. what a stupid fu(kin idea that was :facepalm:

Over spring break I am getting to the bottom of this problem. 

The parts from sis should be here next week, I'm picking up some more seafoam and probably a new front o2 sensor. 

It has my pissed of now, a cold beer in hand sure makes things feel better though. :beer:


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Youre mafless correct? If so; im sure its a leak somewhere between the head, and pre cat o2. Hope you get it sorted


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*idle dip*

i've been following this thread and can't remember if u guys tried cleaning or replacing IAT sensor near throttle body. I have been plagued by this for a while too and when i recently cleaned the IAT sensor, the idle dips have stopped for the last 2 days and is rock steady!

I have tried in the past to clean the IAT sensor and it didn't help but this time, i broke something off of it which i am not even sure was suppose to be there. There was this hard amber kind of wax(?) coating that was flopping around on the sensor wire...well it broke off without much effort and i reinstalled the sensor after cleaning it some more. Seemed to have fixed my idle issue so far.

my setup:
440cc Unitronic file
440 Siemens injectors
3" VR Maf housing with stock element
bkr7e plugs gapped .028


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

JUST FIGURED OUT A MAJOR PROBLEM

The freakin turbo is loose. 
I started it this morning and said yup thats an exhaust leak. 

Popped the hood and pulled the blanket back. I could see moisture coming out from between the turbo and manifold. 

I was using high grade bolts and lock washers from fastenal. 

Guess it's time for studs and nordlocks.

Edit I have to drive 200 miles and don't have any tools with me.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> JUST FIGURED OUT A MAJOR PROBLEM
> 
> The freakin turbo is loose.
> I started it this morning and said yup thats an exhaust leak.
> ...


 GL on the trip! keep the basic tools on ur car man!:thumbup:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I normally have them but took them out to use at the new apartment. 

Spring break I am going to have some fun with it. 
If I can make some extra cash I am going to try and pick up a true 50 trim. ...


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

read through this. i knew it couldnt be an issue with the fuel system or file. i never had a single issue with the ecu.

get some M10 ARP studs, nordlocs and jet nuts and you will be good to go with that.


----------



## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> JUST FIGURED OUT A MAJOR PROBLEM
> 
> The freakin turbo is loose.
> I started it this morning and said yup thats an exhaust leak.
> ...


hate to be negative but im willing to bet that will not fix your issue.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

ghettojetta20vT said:


> hate to be negative but im willing to bet that will not fix your issue.


Care to elaborate on that buddy opcorn:


I have the Nord-Locks ordered, I can get them locally if anyone has trouble...

Received the wrong order from SIS, mine ended in a 2; received on e that ended in a 7. 
:facepalm: Waiting to here back from them


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Can't wait to get this fixed. It sounds like a diesel and gas mileage is fubar. 
I'm only driving around 10 miles / day 

I'm thinking the wg may be loose ...


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

got the nordlocks today. I messed up and ordered 4 extra M10's if anyone needs them PM me.


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Hope this solves your problem. I think im going to go ahead and give new injectors a shot.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

cracked the bolt head off on the exhaust housing, guess I was torque happy. **** :facepalm:


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> cracked the bolt head off on the exhaust housing, guess I was torque happy. **** :facepalm:


You can't fxcking win:facepalm::thumbdown:

Ready to drive it off a cliff and hope for the best?


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I really can't. I got the bolt out, had a nut welded to it and it came right out. 

Found my boost leak from my diy DV relocation. 
Had to remake the joiner pipe and got happy with the heat gun, melted the fitting :laugh: off to lowes before they close to get something metal and some JB weld. 
I will have this fixed tonight. 

:thumbup:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^lol soon you'll get it dialed in


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Everything is bolted back up, pressure tested to 15psi and no leaks :wave:

Will let it run for a while tomorrow after the epoxy has fully cured. 

Man does that GoJo take a tole on your hands after using it multiple times a day.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

heck yeah that stuff is rough on the back of ur hands


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> Everything is bolted back up, pressure tested to 15psi and no leaks :wave:
> 
> Will let it run for a while tomorrow after the epoxy has fully cured.
> 
> Man does that GoJo take a tole on your hands after using it multiple times a day.


use dawn dishwasher soap. its designed to take away grease and be gentle on the hands


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> use dawn dishwasher soap. its designed to take away grease and be gentle on the hands


LOl u sound like a palmolive commercial


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> LOl u sound like a palmolive commercial


^:laugh::laugh: thought the same thing.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

the feckin idle is still hunting only drove it a mile, will reset the ECU and adapt the TB and see what happens. 
With gas at 3.89 here this is getting old quick 

I just don't get it, really thinking it's the injectors, all the leaks are fixed


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> the feckin idle is still hunting only drove it a mile, will reset the ECU and adapt the TB and see what happens.
> With gas at 3.89 here this is getting old quick
> 
> I just don't get it, really thinking it's the injectors, all the leaks are fixed


hmmmm....it's like I said that....a month ago....haha.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

NFrazier said:


> hmmmm....it's like I said that....a month ago....haha.


 I guess so.. I still needed to get everything else in order before ruling the injectors


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

Nah, I definitely understand, just busting your chops.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Yea, it's acting the same way it was before, this is so ofecking annoying.


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## vwnickjetta (Apr 9, 2006)

I believe I am having the same issue. My car started running like crap yesterday. I would mash the pedal and I would only see about 1psi of boost. I would then jerk like crazy. I finally got the check engine light to come on for a p0238 code. Today the car seems to be running ok. Sad thing is I got loads of new parts installed.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

vwnickjetta said:


> I believe I am having the same issue. My car started running like crap yesterday. I would mash the pedal and I would only see about 1psi of boost. I would then jerk like crazy. I finally got the check engine light to come on for a p0238 code. Today the car seems to be running ok. Sad thing is I got loads of new parts installed.


you have a diff prob then hooty, he's not losing boost and not throwing codes


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

it's back to running like complete poop


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

GL hope you find the issue.

I finally got my idle steady again after trying many many things including new MAF, new CTS, new coils, new map, new O2, cleaning TB, and even new injectors and injector seats all which didn't help. In the end my issue was just the IAT sensor. 

Try finding someone local willing to let you swap your injectors temporarily to test


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

dknl said:


> GL hope you find the issue.
> 
> I finally got my idle steady again after trying many many things including new MAF, new CTS, new coils, new map, new O2, cleaning TB, and even new injectors and injector seats all which didn't help. In the end my issue was just the IAT sensor.
> 
> Try finding someone local willing to let you swap your injectors temporarily to test


did your car throw a code while this was happening?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I cleaned the IAT sensor once, I will try and swap that with someone and see if it makes a diff. 

Might change the O2 sensor for the heck of it. 

Would not having the rear o2 hooked up have anything to do with this? I can't see why it would


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> I cleaned the IAT sensor once, I will try and swap that with someone and see if it makes a diff.
> 
> Might change the O2 sensor for the heck of it.
> 
> Would not having the rear o2 hooked up have anything to do with this? I can't see why it would


From what i have read, the rear o2 is only for catalytic converter health. You are mafless, so you can disconnect it. I connected my maf back and still have rear o2 disconnected...car actually feels stronger.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> I cleaned the IAT sensor once, I will try and swap that with someone and see if it makes a diff.
> 
> Might change the O2 sensor for the heck of it.
> 
> Would not having the rear o2 hooked up have anything to do with this? I can't see why it would


yeah, try changing the front o2 sensor. not having the rear o2 sensor connected wouldnt cause this problem.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

No, i never had any codes. 

What's weird is that on some days it seems good but then other days its awful. 

The colder outside was, the worse it was.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

dknl said:


> No, i never had any codes.
> 
> What's weird is that on some days it seems good but then other days its awful.
> 
> The colder outside was, the worse it was.


 Interesting mine seems to act worse in the cold also. ... :screwy:


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## khemiicalz (Mar 25, 2009)

i dont know too much about these engines, but on older engines, it could be the isv, they dont show codes most of the time


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> Interesting mine seems to act worse in the cold also. ... :screwy:


 Do you remember if your injectors were flow matched? Sorry if this was answered but I don't want to look thru 8 pages. :sly:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Jeraho19 said:


> Do you remember if your injectors were flow matched? Sorry if this was answered but I don't want to look thru 8 pages. :sly:


 No idea. Bought them used off here and installed them


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## abramite1040 (May 21, 2010)

Had this problem on a chipped K03, My valve cover gasket was leaking all over and that solved the bouncing idle for me.


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> No idea. Bought them used off here and installed them


 Could be the issue. From the threads I've seen some say yes, others say no. 550cc and 4bar might do it... I have a set of 630cc injectors that are flow matched pm me maybe we can work something out.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Jeraho19 said:


> Could be the issue. From the threads I've seen some say yes, others say no. 550cc and 4bar might do it... I have a set of 630cc injectors that are flow matched pm me maybe we can work something out.


 pm'd


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> pm'd


 
My idle dips every once in a while, my a/f's jump down to like 11.x-12.x and then back up to 17 then steady's out around 14.7. Not sure what this could be, but it was much worse when I wasn't mafless. Maybe a small boost leak or something could be causing this, but it is nothing like your situation; from the vids I saw anyway.


----------



## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

Zneith said:


> My idle dips every once in a while, my a/f's jump down to like 11.x-12.x and then back up to 17 then steady's out around 14.7. Not sure what this could be, but it was much worse when I wasn't mafless. Maybe a small boost leak or something could be causing this, but it is nothing like your situation; from the vids I saw anyway.


 It's something sooo stupid i'm sure, always is


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

what about the MAP sensor?


----------



## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

Isn't your issue at idle only?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

and part throttle driving occasionally. 
It will stumble from lean to rich.


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

I had that happen to me when I first went BT. It was the gasket between exhaust manifold and head. Not saying it's your problem, but it was a weird surge going into boost between 0-8 psi. You might have a leak pre 02. Does it happen more when the motor is cold?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I have all the exhaust, boost and vacuum leaks squared away. 

It is still acting funny at idle. 

I am 99.9% sure it is not the coils. Under load the car acts fine. 


At idle it smells rich, the A/F gauge is bouncing from 11 to 17. For a short time it will sit around 14.5... 

I have cleaned the IAT. It had some cake on it. 

I am thinking it has the be the MAP, IAT or O2. 

The O2 has less then 10k on it. The MAP and IAT are stock 100xxx miles... 


Anyone?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

it's not ur map, when that goes out you will get a cel, and ur car will make you ease into boost you wont be able to just floor it. i doubt it its the o2 if the sensor is pretty new, i vote IAT. im actually gonna try and swap mine out with a friends to see if that helps any


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

i have exactly the same problem...only at idle and sometimes at part throttle(very light part throttle) it will go from very lean to very rich. 

From like 17 and till this -- displayed on the gauge(AEM) to very rich,like in the 10's. 

the RPM bounces then and the boost gauge also jumps up and down(in vacuum) 

Just pulled the exhaust manifold/turbo/dp etc..all new gaskets and sht,NO LEAKS 

i have a maffless tune,so no maf,so vacuum leaks are not relevant. 

new 630cc injectors,i had the 550 genesis,also,but the problem is/was with both.. 

also my O2 sensor is less then 5k miles old. 

Why would it be the map,if it is good under boost?..and a faulty IAT sensor can cause this?..didn't knew that,maybe that's my problem..


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

robbyrr said:


> i have exactly the same problem...only at idle and sometimes at part throttle(very light part throttle) it will go from very lean to very rich.
> 
> From like 17 and till this -- displayed on the gauge(AEM) to very rich,like in the 10's.
> 
> ...


 So I'm not the only one. I think I should call Eurodyne


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> So I'm not the only one. I think I should call Eurodyne


 ur not the only one call em up


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## umphufu (Mar 17, 2008)

hootyburra said:


> So I'm not the only one. I think I should call Eurodyne


 ive got your exact same problem hooty.. and im not even eurodyne. my engine will idle fine, then it will hickup and my AFR goes from rich to lean trying to stabilize. stabilizes for 30sec then hickups again and goes funky once more. 

no misfire codes on vag-com either 

the thing you and i have in common are the injectors *dum dum dum* 

PS (still using maf)


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

umphufu said:


> ive got your exact same problem hooty.. and im not even eurodyne. my engine will idle fine, then it will hickup and my AFR goes from rich to lean trying to stabilize. stabilizes for 30sec then hickups again and goes funky once more.
> 
> no misfire codes on vag-com either
> 
> ...


 my car does it too, but i have seen my car idle perfectly/correctly only after putting in a fresh o2 sensor. within a day or 2 of driving


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> my car does it too, but i have seen my car idle perfectly/correctly only after putting in a fresh o2 sensor. within a day or 2 of driving


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ Z, have you ever checked/cleaned/replaced your AIT sensor? i am just curious


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Zneith said:


> :what::facepalm:
> Nope never changed or cleaned it. To be honest, not even shure where it is located


 its that little sensor right there on top of your throttle body. it's held on by 1 allen bolt, thats where i think our problems lie and thas what im gonna change out this weekend and report back


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ Z, have you ever checked/cleaned/replaced your AIT sensor? i am just curious


 Nope never changed or cleaned it. To be honest, not even sure where it is located :what::facepalm:. When hooty was originally having this problem, I saw some suggestions of cleaning it. I did a search and couldnt find where it was.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

aight imma go take a quick picture :thumbup:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

its the small sensor i have my finger on 

im 99% sure this will fix it http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_IV--1.8T/Engine/Intake/Temperture_Sensor/ES2090864/


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> its the small sensor i have my finger on


 Thats what I thought it was. Thanks for the clarification. Long story short, I was pretty sure that was the IAT sensor when I was installing the fuel pump. I disconnected this to try and pull the fuel rail out, but there was another wire holding the fuel rail in. How do you go about cleaning this? I guess use electric cleaner, but am I cleaning the actually clip area, or what the clip plugs into?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ yeah no prob. i use 91% rubbing alcohol to clean stuff like that, but i cleaned my map and it made no diff, sometimes cleaning it is not enough as was the case for my map sensor. my car is a 2001 and just last year the original MAP died, why wouldnt the IAT die around the same time if they were both exposed to the same exact conditions in my intake system for 10 years. it makes sense to me so im gonna try that its a pretty cheap part anyways why not try it. i might try it today if i can get my hands on the replacement. as for now thats my 2 cents i'll report back with info soon as i can :thumbup:


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ yeah no prob. i use 91% rubbing alcohol to clean stuff like that, but i cleaned my map and it made no diff, sometimes cleaning it is not enough as was the case for my map sensor. my car is a 2001 and just last year the original MAP died, why wouldnt the IAT die around the same time if they were both exposed to the same exact conditions in my intake system for 10 years. it makes sense to me so im gonna try that its a pretty cheap part anyways why not try it. i might try it today if i can get my hands on the replacement. as for now thats my 2 cents i'll report back with info soon as i can :thumbup:


 I havent had a chance to look, but does the IAT sensor come out of the intake? I guess for me to understand I'd need to look myself


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Just pull the Allen screw and the little bugger just pops right out.  don't lose the o ring though.
Edit: I also have a funky idle. Vac gauge is erratic. I did a tba via maestro. Cleaned iat and all that jazz. I know nothing leaks so it can't be vacuum. 
I'm thinking it's the injectors like everyone else says.  boo 630's. 
Also on decel I've noticed something while logging: when I let off the pedal 100% throttle position will show 6% and then drop then go back up to 6%. Then even back out. WTF.


----------



## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Three3Se7en said:


> Just pull the Allen screw and the little bugger just pops right out.  don't lose the o ring though.
> Edit: I also have a funky idle. Vac gauge is erratic. I did a tba via maestro. Cleaned iat and all that jazz. I know nothing leaks so it can't be vacuum.
> I'm thinking it's the injectors like everyone else says.  boo 630's.
> Also on decel I've noticed something while logging: when I let off the pedal 100% throttle position will show 6% and then drop then go back up to 6%. Then even back out. WTF.


 I dont think all of this idle bullsiht is on the blame of the injectors. We all of similar symptoms, but the wide variety range of the possible problems is needless to say, relatively long. Now, hooty and others have gone through a lot of diag, but even after that, all of our cars are different and his solution might not be ours. I think that in some cases the injectors are the problem and others its the map, IAT, etc. We will see though.


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-337_20AE--1.8T/Search/Air_Intake_Sensor/ES250197/ 

Any difference in these? 

The one for 337 is part number 06B905379D :screwy:


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

I've tried many many things to fix the erratic idle as well as and cleaning the IAT sensor in the past all of which didn't help. 

I have a stock ECU with stock injectors and the last time i swapped those back in.... idle was perfect like stock again. As soon as I swapped the Uni 440cc ECU with the 440 injectors....idle took a dump again. Each time my AFR would swing back and forth along with the idle dip. 

But the last time i tried IAT again, i cleaned it really well and this time some hard amberish coating fell off the little "bulb" on the sensor. Once i popped the IAT back in, idle was so smooth once again. 

I still think its the tunes that have something to do with it. Doesn't make sense when i pop in my stock ECU, idle is butter again. (I've also tried other 440 injectors as well although i never tried the genesis ones)


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Well, i changed the IAT sensor today,and still no luck.. 

But i did a few runs with vagcom and found out that whenever the problem occurs the throttle opening is raised by a few %...when idle is good it reads mostly1.2% and 1.6%..but when the bouncy idle begins it reads from 1.6 to 2.5%..sometimes slightly higher... 

What could cause this??.. 

It does explain why it is getting lean and the ecu tries to compensate and it gets rich..but why would the throttle plate open by a few %??.. 

(i do have a 80mm throttle body BUT had the same problem with the original throttle body)


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

throttle plate would open by a few % to raise the rpms back up.


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Was just about to order a new IAT. 

Going to hold off. 

Will the car run with it unplugged?


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> throttle plate would open by a few % to raise the rpms back up.


 But the car goes lean first,why would the ecu open the throttle plate making it leaner?...i watched it closely,and the throttle plate is opening before it is getting rich.Or am i seeing this wrong?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

What are you using to monitor A/F? How close the the sensor to turbo that you are using to monitor? The further away the more delay you have to take into consideration when you are monitoring the a/f, etc. I think i have a 1 second delay or so. 

show us logs of your idle issues


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> What are you using to monitor A/F? How close the the sensor to turbo that you are using to monitor? The further away the more delay you have to take into consideration when you are monitoring the a/f, etc. I think i have a 1 second delay or so.
> 
> show us logs of your idle issues


 What blocks do you want me to log?


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> What blocks do you want me to log?


 It was to the guy above you, but we can get yours logs also 

31 for fuel, and one for throttle position 

How does your car act in the very morning? Run me through


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

I monitor my A/F with an AEM gauge and the sensor is right after the first 02 sensor...so near where the cat used to be...i know it's too far but it is what it is... 

so i might have a second delay?..hmm,ok..but i also logged block 031,but since i have no wideband it only shows o2 voltages...but the lower the voltage the leaner right..and about 0.900 is rich?and if you look at my log,you can see that it is very lean(0,03 and such)that's when i get the bouncy idle. 

(keep in mind that i just replaced the 02 sensor,IAT sensor,new FPR,no maf,no pre 02 leaks,new injectors.) 
here's the log: 










edit: In the morning it act just as normal as always...it's when the car is warmed up when it happens the most..and sometimes it doesnt happen at all,or not for a long time...strange sht


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

robbyrr said:


> I monitor my A/F with an AEM gauge and the sensor is right after the first 02 sensor...so near where the cat used to be...i know it's too far but it is what it is...
> 
> so i might have a second delay?..hmm,ok..but i also logged block 031,but since i have no wideband it only shows o2 voltages...but the lower the voltage the leaner right..and about 0.900 is rich?and if you look at my log,you can see that it is very lean(0,03 and such)that's when i get the bouncy idle.
> 
> ...


 
Can you post a longer log? I want to see the voltage fluctuate. 

This is what has happened to my car and is occurring again due to a bad o2 sensor. 

When it's idling it will richen up and idle will dip down, the rpms go up because throttle plate opens a bit and then throttle goes back to normal, this causes the rpms to go down as if you revved up and let off the gas. When you do this normally the a/f gauge goes rich then all the way lean then back down..same with happens when the throttle opens a bit more then closes.


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> It was to the guy above you, but we can get yours logs also
> 
> 31 for fuel, and one for throttle position
> 
> How does your car act in the very morning? Run me through


 Start it up, idles around 1100. a/f is between 11-13. 

After a a few minutes idle drops to 900-1000, a/f is between 13.5-14.7 99.3% of the time. 
What the gauge shows in the videos is the same thing it is doing. ... 

it has a hickup at idle. 
I have also noticed on a cold start if I drive after only letting it run for a minute first gear really bogs down when starting out.


----------



## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> Can you post a longer log? I want to see the voltage fluctuate.
> 
> This is what has happened to my car and is occurring again due to a bad o2 sensor.
> 
> When it's idling it will richen up and idle will dip down, the rpms go up because throttle plate opens a bit and then throttle goes back to normal, this causes the rpms to go down as if you revved up and let off the gas. When you do this normally the a/f gauge goes rich then all the way lean then back down..same with happens when the throttle opens a bit more then closes.


 That is exactly what my car is doing. As far as I know, all the O2 sensors were never replaced. The newest one is for the A/F Gauge. 

Not trying to thread jack, just adding input:thumbup:


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewforum.php?f=26 

Look over some of the posts in here.


----------



## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> Can you post a longer log? I want to see the voltage fluctuate.
> 
> This is what has happened to my car and is occurring again due to a bad o2 sensor.
> 
> When it's idling it will richen up and idle will dip down, the rpms go up because throttle plate opens a bit and then throttle goes back to normal, this causes the rpms to go down as if you revved up and let off the gas. When you do this normally the a/f gauge goes rich then all the way lean then back down..same with happens when the throttle opens a bit more then closes.


 i also thought it was the o2 but i replaced it twice,with no luck... 

But the thing is that when i look at my A/F gauge,it never goes rich first...it always starts with getting lean before getting ricg...from like 17 and -- to 11 and 10's then slowly to normal,and a few seconds later again.... 

Anyway,here's a longer version of the same log:


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I was tinkering with some more things today trying to figure this out. 
This does not make sense.... 
If I hold the rpms at 2000 the A/F will go back and forth from 11.x to 17 and you can here the stumble in the exhaust as well as seeing the rpms fluctuating even if I don't move my foot. 
3000 rpms 12.x to 17 same rpm and exhaust tone fluctuation 
4000 rpms 13.x to 17 ^ 

What the heck is going on here it has me irritated beyond pissed off levels.


----------



## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> I was tinkering with some more things today trying to figure this out.
> This does not make sense....
> If I hold the rpms at 2000 the A/F will go back and forth from 11.x to 17 and you can here the stumble in the exhaust as well as seeing the rpms fluctuating even if I don't move my foot.
> 3000 rpms 12.x to 17 same rpm and exhaust tone fluctuation
> ...


 I noticed this as soon as I got tuned: When I'm at partial throttle, my A/F's dance from lean to rich back and forth. This is when I'm cruising but maintaining speed. It is hard to explain, not sure how I could better word the explanation.


----------



## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I was doing this sitting in neutral in the driveway but at part throttle it behaves the same. 

wtf is the deal here? 

both eurodyne, both siemens 630, both walbro 225 inline pump...... 

Something of the 3 has to be the issue. 

Are you able to log misfires in maestro? 

I can't with the base tune. 

The threads I posted above for the eurodyne forum have lots of info regarding this


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Here is an interesting thought. Some people have idle issues and other's dont. I want to know where the o2 sensor is on each persons setup. Stock location or much closer to turbo. 

Mine is stock location, under passenger.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I have the O2 sensor right across from the box where the harnesses connect. 
From what I have read you do not want them close to the turbo 
I am in the process of posting a bunch of logs


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> I have the O2 sensor right across from the box where the harnesses connect.
> From what I have read you do not want them close to the turbo
> I am in the process of posting a bunch of logs


 Why not close to turbo? Have you seen where o2 sensors are on AEB passat? like 5 inches from exhaust housing.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> I have the O2 sensor right across from the box where the harnesses connect.
> From what I have read you do not want them close to the turbo
> I am in the process of posting a bunch of logs


 I have my O2 sensor bung for the A/F welded about 20 inches down the down pipe from the turbo. So its very close to the location of the stock O2 sensor on the downpipe. When I was having it welded, the research yielded results saying to put the A/F o2 sensor 16-24 inches away from the turbo. So I put it at 20, right in the middle.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

logs are in the first post


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> logs are in the first post


 Ur car is going the same thing as mine did, and still does with bad o2 that i need to purchase. 

Goes rich, idle dips and picks back up then goes leaner, repeat 

Its fairly consistent. Rich rich lean rich rich lean lean rich rich lean rich rich lean lean.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> Ur car is going the same thing as mine did, and still does with bad o2 that i need to purchase.
> 
> Goes rich, idle dips and picks back up then goes leaner, repeat
> 
> Its fairly consistent. Rich rich lean rich rich lean lean rich rich lean rich rich lean lean.


 Thats what mine does. From what I noticed, it will only do this when the car is at OT. If thecar is idling say at a stop light soon after starting the car, the idle is perfect.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Zneith said:


> Thats what mine does. From what I noticed, it will only do this when the car is at OT. If thecar is idling say at a stop light soon after starting the car, the idle is perfect.


 anyone have issues where it does rich for several seconds after letting off the gas (coasting to a stop light) then back to lean and normal?


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> anyone have issues where it does rich for several seconds after letting off the gas (coasting to a stop light) then back to lean and normal?


 The other thing I noticed after being tuned: When I'm on the gas at all, the a/f's are alright, minus when I'm barely on the gas and it bounces back and forth. When I'm on decel in gear, the a/f goes all the way lean which is supposed to happen. Say I go to put it in neutral; clutch goes in, i go into neutral, let clutch out, and the a/f will go from all the way lean to all the way rich, then it will settle between 14.7-13.x, usually hovering around that range at idle or in neutral. Then I will have the sporadic/random tapping of rich then going all the way lean and then usually evening out for a few seconds, then dipping again. It was never really bad, so I really never investigated it. I knew that part of it was my maf, so i wanted to see how it acted after a mafless tune. It is much better but still dips.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Zneith said:


> The other thing I noticed after being tuned: When I'm on the gas at all, the a/f's are alright, minus when I'm barely on the gas and it bounces back and forth. When I'm on decel in gear, the a/f goes all the way lean which is supposed to happen. Say I go to put it in neutral; clutch goes in, i go into neutral, let clutch out, and the a/f will go from all the way lean to all the way rich, then it will settle between 14.7-13.x, usually hovering around that range at idle or in neutral. Then I will have the sporadic/random tapping of rich then going all the way lean and then usually evening out for a few seconds, then dipping again. It was never really bad, so I really never investigated it. I knew that part of it was my maf, so i wanted to see how it acted after a mafless tune. It is much better but still dips.


 
I am Mafed right now and notice more low end power, I will get a new o2 sensor and see how it goes cause i put a used old one when my other took a dump


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Dub-Nub said:


> I am Mafed right now and notice more low end power, I will get a new o2 sensor and see how it goes cause i put a used old one when my other took a dump


 After I get my downpipe rewelded:facepalm:, i will try to troubleshoot this problem. Right now, I have to focus on finding someone with a jack and stands, and finding a day that I can get out early enough to do this, make sure there is a baby sitter, and find a somewhat warm day so i dont freeze my ass off.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Zneith said:


> The other thing I noticed after being tuned: When I'm on the gas at all, the a/f's are alright, minus when I'm barely on the gas and it bounces back and forth. When I'm on decel in gear, the a/f goes all the way lean which is supposed to happen. Say I go to put it in neutral; clutch goes in, i go into neutral, let clutch out, and the a/f will go from all the way lean to all the way rich, then it will settle between 14.7-13.x, usually hovering around that range at idle or in neutral. Then I will have the sporadic/random tapping of rich then going all the way lean and then usually evening out for a few seconds, then dipping again. It was never really bad, so I really never investigated it. I knew that part of it was my maf, so i wanted to see how it acted after a mafless tune. It is much better but still dips.


 Exactly how mine behaves... 

Forgot to mention block 32. -3.6% and 9.4%


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> Exactly how mine behaves...
> 
> Forgot to mention block 32. -3.6% and 9.4%


 
jesus 

battery voltage compensation is off and its adding 9.4% fuel (injector constant)


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> Exactly how mine behaves...
> 
> Forgot to mention block 32. -3.6% and 9.4%


 yup this is me 2. hoping to swap sensors tomorrow to see if that helps anything


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> jesus
> 
> battery voltage compensation is off and its adding 9.4% fuel (injector constant)


 What can be done to correct that and what causes it?


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## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

Have you tried some genesis 550cc yet? Do this and put this thread to a close.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> What can be done to correct that and what causes it?


 You can fix it with maestro, but you don't have maestro so im not sure really


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> You can fix it with maestro, but you don't have maestro so im not sure really


 :banghead: 

any ideas what causes it?


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

hootyburra said:


> :banghead:
> 
> any ideas what causes it?


 dont know, but a poor o2 sensor that isnt getting good reading can


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Dub-Nub said:


> dont know, but a poor o2 sensor that isnt getting good reading can


 it's not the o2 sensor, i've replaced mine twice within the last year and the prob goes away while the sensor is "fresh" but comes back within 2 days of puttin a new sensor in. :banghead:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

So is it the tune or is it hardware that is thy question :screwy:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> So is it the tune or is it hardware that is thy question :screwy:


 nobody knows.... i cleaned the ish outta my IAT and my car runs a little smoother, but the idle prob still exists:facepalm: :facepalm:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

That post was meant to be sarcastic.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Emailed eurodyne through their website. 

Anyone have a better means of contact?


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> Emailed eurodyne through their website.
> 
> Anyone have a better means of contact?


Your better off emailing chris tapp directly. Let me know if you need his email address. When you email eurodyne through their site they will never respond. I inquired about purchasing Eurodyne through email the way your saying and I still didnt get an answer after a week. I called, answer right away.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

if you could PM his email that would be great


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> if you could PM his email that would be great


PM Sent:thumbup:


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

What is this battery voltage compensation,and how does it relate to our idle problem?..

And is it only adjustable with maestro?..


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ i hope he provides some helpful insight:banghead: this $hit is rediculous


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Edit, working on finding out where the ECu came from so Chris can help me


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> Edit, working on finding out where the ECu came from so Chris can help me


:thumbup: please keep up us/(me) updated lol :banghead:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

What I have so far. I hope the PO of the ECU gets back to me. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really have no idea what the problem is.
Arnold had a car like that a few months ago and it turned out to be a bad throttle body.

That is not a diagnosis though, you may want to bring it to a shop that specializes in this sort of thing if you are not having any luck with your troubleshooting....

Sent from my iPad

On 2011-03-28, at 8:45 PM, Aaron wrote:

> > Ok. Hopefully the previous owner gets back to me. ...
> > 
> > I also have an 02 with stock TB, IM and displacement. I am running a 50 trim turbo.
> > At first I thought it was a pre o2 exhaust leak, seafoamed the car and have all exhaust leaks buttoned up.
> > I also had a very small exhaust leak before the TB, I relocated the DV and this is where the leak was.
> > I pressure tested the system to 15 psi and have no leaks.
> > The o2 sensor has less then 6,000 miles on it.
> > BKr7E plugs @ .028
> > I have cleaned the IAT multiple times.
> > 
> > Would a bad MAP cause rough idle?
> > When I am in boost everything is great...
> > The issue is at idle and part throttle.
> > 
> > 
> > On 3/28/2011 8:37 PM, Chris wrote:
>> >> No, vag com won't help.
>> >> There may be some people who you might think have a similar issue, but in every case I have seen so far, it turns out they find the problem somewhere in their setup. Unless they have some modifications they need to tune for, and that is what maestro is for.
>> >> 
>> >> The regular 630 file was tuned on our 2002 awp gti with stock displacement, throttle body and intake manifold, and a pag parts gt30 kit with stock fuel pressure and siemens injectors.
>> >> 
>> >> It idles just fine.
>> >> 
>> >> Sent from my iPad
>> >> 
>> >> On 2011-03-28, at 8:26 PM, Aaron wrote:
>> >> 
>>> >>> Yes the issue is bad Idle.
>>> >>> I emailed the user I bought the ECU from.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> I have logs posted on the first page.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Is there any way I can pull the info you need about the ECU via Vag-Com?
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> I have been browsing the eurodyne forums as well as vwvortex and there are many people with the same issue.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> I appreciate the help so far.
>>> >>> -Aaron
>>> >>>


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

if it helps any my ecu is my original aww ecu.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> if it helps any my ecu is my original aww ecu.


Same here. AWW


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## robbyrr (May 9, 2009)

mine is stock AJQ...

Has anybody tried a new throttle body?..pfff...im really running out of ideas..


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Maybe if we all send emails we could get somewhere.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

I have damn near the same setup the tune was wrote on. 02 awp stock everything on a s256.  still messy idle.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Three3Se7en said:


> I have damn near the same setup the tune was wrote on. 02 awp stock everything on a s256.  still messy idle.


Well, this problem seems to exist on EVERYONE's BT'd Eurodyne mafless files, 630cc. This has to be the tune. Everyone didnt have the problem until tuned, and now we all have it. I think there better be a better base file sent out, and most definitely an updated one for us.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> Maybe if we all send emails we could get somewhere.


i will be emailing them today after classes r over...



Three3Se7en said:


> I have damn near the same setup the tune was wrote on. 02 awp stock everything on a s256.  still messy idle.


:facepalm:



Zneith said:


> Well, this problem seems to exist on EVERYONE's BT'd Eurodyne mafless files, 630cc. This has to be the tune. Everyone didnt have the problem until tuned, and now we all have it. I think there better be a better base file sent out, and most definitely an updated one for us.


:thumbup:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Big_Tom said:


> i will be emailing them today after classes r over...
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup:


Keep me posted


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^fa sho


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## Deeds4life (Aug 25, 2006)

I read the first two pages on this and not going to read all 6 but i had a similar issue and it was worse when it was humid out. Turns out it was the coil pack harness had cracks in it and was arcing to the block. I dunno if you tried that but that could do it.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Z or Hooty plz PM me chris tapp's email address. i dont feel like waiting forever by emailing the company


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Well I drove the car on stock tune and injectors for two days before getting maestro on my bt. Car ran like stock. Put maestro on and it idles like ish. - the only variables are the tune and the injectors. Go figure. eace:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

I just emailed mr tapp... :facepalm:


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Zneith said:


> Well, this problem seems to exist on EVERYONE's BT'd Eurodyne mafless files, 630cc. This has to be the tune. Everyone didnt have the problem until tuned, and now we all have it. I think there better be a better base file sent out, and most definitely an updated one for us.


 its a problem with all bt files.. Uni has even more issues than Tapp does. It has a lot to do with the loss of a check and balance in the factory ecu caused by writing out the maf, couple this with everyone using single cone injectors which puddle, and drip fuel into the head when theres not enough air velocity to atomize the fuel.. The Genesis injectors with the proper dual cone spray pattern seem to have been forgotten by many.. Any tiny pinhole leak pre primary o2 is gonna throw it all to shcit as well... You guys are asking a lot from an off the shelf tune, when there are soooo many variables involved..


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

on a cold start until it is fully warmed up it really bogs down starting out in 1st


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> its a problem with all bt files.. Uni has even more issues than Tapp does. It has a lot to do with the loss of a check and balance in the factory ecu caused by writing out the maf, couple this with everyone using single cone injectors which puddle, and drip fuel into the head when theres not enough air velocity to atomize the fuel.. The Genesis injectors with the proper dual cone spray pattern seem to have been forgotten by many.. Any tiny pinhole leak pre primary o2 is gonna throw it all to shcit as well... You guys are asking a lot from an off the shelf tune, when there are soooo many variables involved..


:bs:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> its a problem with all bt files.. Uni has even more issues than Tapp does. It has a lot to do with the loss of a check and balance in the factory ecu caused by writing out the maf, couple this with everyone using single cone injectors which puddle, and drip fuel into the head when theres not enough air velocity to atomize the fuel.. The Genesis injectors with the proper dual cone spray pattern seem to have been forgotten by many.. Any tiny pinhole leak pre primary o2 is gonna throw it all to shcit as well... You guys are asking a lot from an off the shelf tune, when there are soooo many variables involved..


Then please explain why Chris is saying there shop car idles perfect. 
">>> >>> The regular 630 file was tuned on our 2002 awp gti with stock
displacement, throttle body and intake manifold, and a pag parts gt30 kit
with stock fuel pressure and siemens injectors.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It idles just fine.
"

I have all emails saved, really hoping this gets figured out. 

I wish it were an issue with all software then we would know what the problem was....
I knew there are alot more ppl running this file then those in this thread.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

i emailed c.tapp about it as well and he wont even consider that there is a possibility of a flaw in the file. to him it is 100% perfect, he told me to "take it to a shop" which is some bullsh*t. besides feeling insulted a little by that response it did make me remember that when i did have the car looked at by a "professional" he said it was my tune. maybe it's not the "tune" (afr, timing etc) itself but possibly firmware differences in our ecu's or something else along those lines... judging by his reponse to my emails is unwilling to investigate our problems because the car he tuned it on didnt have this problem. :facepalm:


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

I think this might turn a lot of heads from Eurodyne if thats the case


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

you should email them too Z, and also Three3Se7en. apparently he thinks everything is fine 

also i was going to post a video, but my camera is so old and crappy it wont capture the sounds of my car it sounds all distorted :facepalm:


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## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> its a problem with all bt files.. Uni has even more issues than Tapp does. It has a lot to do with the loss of a check and balance in the factory ecu caused by writing out the maf, couple this with everyone using single cone injectors which puddle, and drip fuel into the head when theres not enough air velocity to atomize the fuel.. *The Genesis injectors with the proper dual cone spray pattern seem to have been forgotten by many.. Any tiny pinhole leak pre primary o2 is gonna throw it all to shcit as well... *You guys are asking a lot from an off the shelf tune, when there are soooo many variables involved..


this!


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> The Genesis injectors with the proper dual cone spray pattern seem to have been forgotten by many.. Any tiny pinhole leak pre primary o2 is gonna throw it all to shcit as well... You guys are asking a lot from an off the shelf tune, when there are soooo many variables involved..


I was told the Uni files were tuned with/for the Siemens injectors when i called them and it was best to stick with those for their files.

Everyone tells me to upgrade to 630cc file as the idle issue was 'mostly' fixed with that tune....why can't they get the 440 file to run smoothly???


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

dknl said:


> I was told the Uni files were tuned with/for the Siemens injectors when i called them and it was best to stick with those for their files.
> 
> Everyone tells me to upgrade to 630cc file as the idle issue was 'mostly' fixed with that tune....why can't they get the 440 file to run smoothly???


^^^ i was told the same thing about the eurodyne file. so when i bought my bt kit i purchased those injectors, now my car will not run right with it and its supposedly an injector problem gtfo wit that. im not taking that for an answer when i have seen others cars run the same 630cc siemens injectors flawlesly. c.tapp says he used them on the car he tuned the file on and it works great so the injectors can do the job. peeps need to stop babbling about changing injectors because i am using the injectors my tune calls for. why should i fork out more cash for another set of injectors that dont match what my file calls for? i dont see why it would be so hard for eurodyne/tapp to aquire a few ecu's flash them with the file and try to replicate the problem. from the sound of it they only tested on 1 car :facepalm: dont tell me to buy injector set A and use them with the file. then when i have a problem using the recommended hardware oh now the siemens injectors are crappy and have bad spray pattern go with injector B


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I don't know if this is crazy or not but last night I had this dream I was talking to some guy about the problem and he was telling me there is a shop somewhere near by that takes the injectors and hooks them up to some machine and matches them correctly ...
I don't know it was a crazy detailed dream..... 
This car is even bothering me in my sleep.


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## umphufu (Mar 17, 2008)

Big_Tom said:


> i emailed c.tapp about it as well and he wont even consider that there is a possibility of a flaw in the file. to him it is 100% perfect, he told me to "take it to a shop" which is some bullsh*t. besides feeling insulted a little by that response it did make me remember that when i did have the car looked at by a "professional" he said it was my tune. maybe it's not the "tune" (afr, timing etc) itself but possibly firmware differences in our ecu's or something else along those lines... judging by his reponse to my emails is unwilling to investigate our problems because the car he tuned it on didnt have this problem. :facepalm:



not sure bout firmware updates, but there is another guy i know with a similar setup as mine, on the exact same car as mine (both 2004 mk4 AUQ 1.8T *180hp*, his is just 2 weeks older than mine) and both with the same software and mine idles like sheet and his is perfect, only difference is turbo size and ive got a LWFW.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ see i think there is another variable somewhere. it might not be firmware, (that was just an example) but there is something else to the story it just don't add up  it doesn't make sense how people say to go buy new injectors :facepalm: fuk outta here man


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ see i think there is another variable somewhere. it might not be firmware, (that was just an example) but there is something else to the story it just don't add up  it doesn't make sense how people say to go buy new injectors :facepalm: fuk outta here man


+1 on this. If that was the case, alot of us wasted a lot of money.:facepalm::facepalm:

We know the 550cc's work w/ a 4bar, now lets get this stupid 630 bullshet figured out.


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

I was apart of the Unitronic crap back on 2009  I/WE didn't get anywhere with them, to them they have a perfect 630 file. Hopefully you guys get somewhere with this I was told that Chris Tapp had wonderful customer service but ummm yeah those E-Mails are crap. I like the whole "It must be a hardware issue" :bs: BOTH company's need to get there sh!t together.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Jeraho19 said:


> I was apart of the Unitronic crap back on 2009  I/WE didn't get anywhere with them, to them they have a perfect 630 file. Hopefully you guys get somewhere with this I was told that Chris Tapp had wonderful customer service but ummm yeah those E-Mails are crap. I like the whole "It must be a hardware issue" :bs: BOTH company's need to get there sh!t together.


They make a product, make a KILLING off of it, but wont support it?:screwy: What is going on?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Zneith said:


> +1 on this. If that was the case, alot of us wasted a lot of money.:facepalm::facepalm:
> 
> We know the 550cc's work w/ a 4bar, now lets get this stupid 630 bullshet figured out.


also switching to 550's does not solve every 1's problem. for some people it made no diference. that not a risk i am about to take. especially since our files uni & eurodyne say to use the 630cc siemens injectors. we did not buy 550cc files, we bought 630cc files. revo to my knowledge is the only one that uses 550cc injectors.



Zneith said:


> They make a product, make a KILLING off of it, but wont support it?:screwy: What is going on?


yeah its the canadian way :thumbdown:



Jeraho19 said:


> I was apart of the Unitronic crap back on 2009  I/WE didn't get anywhere with them, to them they have a perfect 630 file. Hopefully you guys get somewhere with this I was told that Chris Tapp had wonderful customer service but ummm yeah those E-Mails are crap. I like the whole "It must be a hardware issue" :bs: BOTH company's need to get there sh!t together.


it doesn't look like we are going to get anywhere talking to tapp because he is denying there is a problem and has quit responding to my emails it seems (got no response on my last 1) has not said he would do anything about it and insists our problems are not software related. he offered no type of help/insight other than "take it to a shop" and telling me i am conveniently ignoring others solutions that were in the thread. others solutions range from (coil packs, plugs, maf, iat, o2 sensor, changing injectors, changing software etc). the only thing i havent done is change software or buy new injectors. i cant say enough about how $hitty this situation is... :banghead::facepalm:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Big_Tom said:


> also switching to 550's does not solve every 1's problem. for some people it made no diference. that not a risk i am about to take. especially since our files uni & eurodyne say to use the 630cc siemens injectors. we did not buy 550cc files, we bought 630cc files. revo to my knowledge is the only one that uses 550cc injectors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:beer::beer:
Right there with you. 
I'm going to try and have a friend look at it this weekend... He is good with VW's. I will report back.


Edit
What about part throttle driving? Is it smooth or jerky... best way I can describe is the a/f gauge goes back and forth across the spectrum and you can feel some kind of stutter in the car..


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

the same problem is there during light throttle as well. it gets me when pulling off from lights or speed bumps sometimes :facepalm:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Big_Tom said:


> the same problem is there during light throttle as well. it gets me when pulling off from lights or speed bumps sometimes :facepalm:


wtf is going on with this.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> wtf is going on with this.


My partial throttle is same thing. If its a soft acceleration then yes i have the rich to lean very fast. If its a little more acceleration, then it goes away but at cruising thats what my a/f does too.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

has everyone tried pressure testing for leaks and checking for exhaust leaks?
Can't completely blame tune unless you have done so because as said, all it takes is a tiny leak to throw everything off


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

dknl said:


> has everyone tried pressure testing for leaks and checking for exhaust leaks?
> Can't completely blame tune unless you have done so because as said, all it takes is a tiny leak to throw everything off



Have you read the thread. 

I have pressure tested to 15 psi. 

Seafomed the exhaust 

I had one small leak pre tb that is fixed.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> Have you read the thread.
> 
> I have pressure tested to 15 psi.
> 
> ...


+1 been there done that


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

just doin some searching.... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...emens-630cc-(unitronic)&p=39968074&viewfull=1


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

I wonder what it is with some cars running fine and some don't. I mean I have a pag 30r kit just like the next dude, mine runs like sh!t his doesn't. I've been saying software for years, 2 years actually. I will admit 550cc injectors did help my part throttle but not my bumpy idle and occasional misfire. I've replaced just about everything but the damn car. I've been in contact with Mark at Malone Tuning and when he tunes my car (within the next 2 weeks) I'll let you guys know how it runs.:facepalm:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Jeraho19 said:


> I wonder what it is with some cars running fine and some don't. I mean I have a pag 30r kit just like the next dude, mine runs like sh!t his doesn't. I've been saying software for years, 2 years actually. I will admit 550cc injectors did help my part throttle but not my bumpy idle and occasional misfire. I've replaced just about everything but the damn car. I've been in contact with Mark at Malone Tuning and when he tunes my car (within the next 2 weeks) I'll let you guys know how it runs.:facepalm:


kool, im interested to see what malone will do for you. i dont want to fork out the money for some 550cc injectors that every1 says are so great because every1 said/says the siemens are great too(the reason i bought them in the 1st place). so :facepalm:


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

Big_Tom said:


> kool, im interested to see what malone will do for you. i dont want to fork out the money for some 550cc injectors that every1 says are so great because every1 said/says the siemens are great too(the reason i bought them in the 1st place). so :facepalm:


You guys will be the first to know how it runs.


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Well guys I went ahead and got some new injectors, Injector Dynamics 715/725cc to be exact. I am sad to say that it didn't fix the idle and part throttle issues I've been having. I am now 100% convinced it has something to do with the Eurodyne tune. Like I've said before in this thread, I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING recommended along with other remedies I thought might work with no positive results. Now if a new tune doesn't work, I guess I'm one of the unluckies that got a bad batch of 1.8t:facepalm:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

dayum!  thats rediculous. maybe you should email eurodyne and tell them as well. i bet if u ask for a refund they will say no and be a b*tch about it. i doubt c. tapp will do anything for you. he dont even care enough to investigate the problem.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

TeaEightySix said:


> Well guys I went ahead and got some new injectors, Injector Dynamics 715/725cc to be exact. I am sad to say that it didn't fix the idle and part throttle issues I've been having. I am now 100% convinced it has something to do with the Eurodyne tune. Like I've said before in this thread, I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING recommended along with other remedies I thought might work with no positive results. Now if a new tune doesn't work, I guess I'm one of the unluckies that got a bad batch of 1.8t:facepalm:


Im assuming you put in the correct values for battery voltage and injector constant ya?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

this is fubar


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ yep :facepalm:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Seafoamed the car again and have exhaust leaks around the turbo.
I am running no gasket between the turbo and mani and it is leaking there. Will put a gasket in.
I have a gasket from IE at the vband and still have leaks there...

This is getting so old... what is the trick I am missing?


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> Seafoamed the car again and have exhaust leaks around the turbo.
> I am running no gasket between the turbo and mani and it is leaking there. Will put a gasket in.
> I have a gasket from IE at the vband and still have leaks there...
> 
> This is getting so old... what is the trick I am missing?


I just got my downpipe off, rewelded, and put back on. The silicone coupler is clamped with 3 clamps and a silicone coupler from siliconeintakes.com. I waited for the car to warm up, and went into boost. Coupler gave me problems for a little bit, got that sorted out. Boosted again and nothing popped off, and i actually seemed to spool up faster than before. I think retightening some clamps gave me my actual FULL boost. Needless to say, I still had this FxCKING idle problem:thumbdown::facepalm: What seemed weird was when I would be moving, slap the car in neutral, it idles perfect, the way it should. When I'm at a stop light, and the clutch is in, the idle is perfect. Ill let go of the clutch in neutral, at idle and it will start to idle light complete sh!t again. I'm not sure if this is related or just coincidence, but I figured I'd throw it into this clusterfxck.opcorn:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Hooty find a Nissan dealer and buy their T3 gasket, it's pretty burly in comparison to the others out there. While it may not last forever, I've been on one for over 15K w/ good success and an ATP/ATP clone manifold like yourself.

Someone mentioned elsewhere on here to play w/ bumping up idle torque up a few clicks over 100% and that's really helped my setup. I no way, shape or form has it eliminated the crappy spray pattern 630s give and the problems associated with that, but the car doesn't stumble nearly as much when it does happen.

I ran 550s on a Uni 630 flash and it was silky, silky smooth. An Ev14 based injector would be step above the siemens which seems to be chosen solely because they worked decent (not the best) and didn't break the bank.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Zneith said:


> Needless to say, I still had this FxCKING idle problem:thumbdown::facepalm: What I seemed weird was when I would be moving, slap the car in neutral, it idles perfect, the way it should. When I'm at a stop light, and the clutch is in, the idle is perfect. Ill let go over the clutch in neutral, at idle and it will start to idle light complete sh!t again. I'm not sure if this is related or just coincidence, but I figured I'd throw it into this clusterfxck.opcorn:


This is strange and I noticed it before and thought it was just coincidence, then on my way back to school today I noticed it at the light the idle was great, as soon as I got back to my apartment and put it in neutral idle was ****. 

Tom can you check this?


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

hootyburra said:


> Then please explain why Chris is saying there shop car idles perfect.
> ">>> >>> The regular 630 file was tuned on our 2002 awp gti with stock
> displacement, throttle body and intake manifold, and a pag parts gt30 kit
> with stock fuel pressure and siemens injectors.
> ...


Simple.. His shop car is running a Pag kit that,is sealed up like a drum. Dead on primary O2 readings.. Most of the time guys find that they have a tiny leak pre-primary o2.. With the Maf written out, the primary o2 readings have to be TOTALLY perfect.. Hope that gasket sorts the issue out.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

i dont have any exhaust leaks tho :facepalm:


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> i dont have any exhaust leaks tho :facepalm:


I have no pre o2 sensor exhaust leaks either. As I said before, I figured my maf was the culprit of my idle issue; obviously not the case.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

it's the hardware is all anyone ever says.... nothing is wrong with my setup, it's this stupid file. im bout rdy to pursue a refund on this $hit  i want to see if malone's tune fixes that 1 guys idle prob, if it does you can guess what im doin


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> it's the hardware is all anyone ever says.... nothing is wrong with my setup, it's this stupid file. im bout rdy to pursue a refund on this $hit  i want to see if malone's tune fixes that 1 guys idle prob, if it does you can guess what im doin


If this is the case, ill just deal with it and let everyone else know what they are getting into when they buy Eurodyne:thumbdown::facepalm:

I just dropped 1200-1300 for the fuel pump injectors and the maestro 7 suite..... I think I'll deal with the slight idle hiccup instead of wasting it. I'm still definitely going to try and track this down, but im pretty damn sure its not anything that has to do with hardware.... I might be trying a new front o2 sensor, but I doubt thats the problem.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Zenith, Hooty, Big Tom and I are all on ATP style setups correct?

** errrrr, i see its not just limited to atp style setups.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

yeh, our hardware/turbo kits do vary... :banghead:


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Dub-Nub said:


> Im assuming you put in the correct values for battery voltage and injector constant ya?


 Found some good reading on this. I have'nt messed with battery voltage yet but I was always under the impression that the only thing that needed to be changed was fuel pressure when getting different sized injectors. Seems like the base files for Eurodyne sometimes have to be "tweaked" to get correct idle and part throttle. Check out what I found on audizine.com concerning Maestro tuning. MmmBoost gets in to detail about battery voltage and injector constant. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/402750-The-Great-Maestro-7-Tuning-Suite-Thread/page2


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

TeaEightySix said:


> Found some good reading on this. I have'nt messed with battery voltage yet but I was always under the impression that the only thing that needed to be changed was fuel pressure when getting different sized injectors. Seems like the base files for Eurodyne sometimes have to be "tweaked" to get correct idle and part throttle. Check out what I found on audizine.com concerning Maestro tuning. MmmBoost gets in to detail about battery voltage and injector constant. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/402750-The-Great-Maestro-7-Tuning-Suite-Thread/page2


To be honest no one should have to mess with with battery voltage or tweak anything. 900 dollars was paid for a tune that is supposed to be right at idle and part throttle, period. This is something these companys should have thought out better and SHOULD take care of there customers. When I bought my software they wanted detailed info on what turbo, injectors, deletes, everything! No adjusting should be done on my end imo. :thumbdown:


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

Jeraho19 said:


> To be honest no one should have to mess with with battery voltage or tweak anything. 900 dollars was paid for a tune that is supposed to be right at idle and part throttle, period. This is something these companys should have thought out better and SHOULD take care of there customers. When I bought my software they wanted detailed info on what turbo, injectors, deletes, everything! No adjusting should be done on my end imo. :thumbdown:


 I agree with you on that. I can see if it was suppose to be a complete standalone ems but being an "off the shelf" tune, it should be ready to go...


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Jeraho19 said:


> To be honest no one should have to mess with with battery voltage or tweak anything. 900 dollars was paid for a tune that is supposed to be right at idle and part throttle, period. This is something these companys should have thought out better and SHOULD take care of there customers. When I bought my software they wanted detailed info on what turbo, injectors, deletes, everything! No adjusting should be done on my end imo. :thumbdown:


+1


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## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

x11751


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

i just took a quick video from my phone while i was driving home from class. this is my idle :facepalm: http://tinypic.com/r/157owug/7


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> i just took a quick video from my phone while i was driving home from class. this is my idle :facepalm: http://tinypic.com/r/157owug/7


Mine is identical to that. I wish you had an a/f gauge, but my boost gauge acts the same.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Big_Tom said:


> i just took a quick video from my phone while i was driving home from class. this is my idle :facepalm: http://tinypic.com/r/157owug/7





Zneith said:


> Mine is identical to that. I wish you had an a/f gauge, but my boost gauge acts the same.


x2


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

@BigTom: I remember a little ways back you said that you replaced your o2 sensors, and it fixed the problem, but it came back soon after? I was looking around my car thinking, and what if the o2 sensor is good going in, but the way the car runs, going rich and lean could foul the readings of the o2.... just a thought.:screwy:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Zneith said:


> @BigTom: I remember a little ways back you said that you replaced your o2 sensors, and it fixed the problem, but it came back soon after? I was looking around my car thinking, and what if the o2 sensor is good going in, but the way the car runs, going rich and lean could foul the readings of the o2.... just a thought.:screwy:


yeah i replaced the o2 twice since i went BT last year. whatever causes this problem makes the car run rich and it kills the new o2 pretty fast. i put a new one in, the idle is fixed for about 2 days and then the problem slowly comes back until it's like you saw in the video


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> yeah i replaced the o2 twice since i went BT last year. whatever causes this problem makes the car run rich and it kills the new o2 pretty fast. i put a new one in, the idle is fixed for about 2 days and then the problem slowly comes back until it's like you saw in the video


Convinces me even more that the issue is software.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Zneith said:


> Convinces me even more that the issue is software.


and lack of support for the said software. 

...

I am not even going to continue this post until I have a few more drinks and get at least one more assignment done.

All I will say is I am disappointed and shocked by the support users in this thread and myself have received so far. 

I mean a 5th grader can right a program that works great on his pc using his browser, hardware, resolution... yada yada yada but that does not mean it will work for everyone....


Even after turning to the eurodyne forums for support I find the same issues from users there; rough/unstable idle on the 630 file....... even there I do not see any support from the manufacturer who also hosts the website :facepalm:

I completely understand that I have exhaust leaks and that could be throwing things off, however others with the exact same issue regarding idle with no exhaust leaks pre o2 really makes me wonder. 

I'm calling BS on the runaround we are getting so far :bs:

I mean just because some people can run a bov and have great idle doesn't mean others can. 
The same applies to this scenario. Just because it worked on the shop car doesn't mean it will work on joe, fred, bob, and sallies. Another thing that gets me that just came to mind... Is everyone here AWP? iirc no, then why is the file that was written for an AWP being used with all engine codes? 

Looking forward to reading some replies to this. 

Maybe we could get a competitor to take a look at this thread, malone? 
I had called them and spoke multiple times about the file. 
There is no way he would was going to sell me a base tune and be done. .....
If I did not get a great deal on my eurodnyne file I would have more then likely went with them.
Excellent communication skills and very knowledgeable from the few times I was on the phone with them when I was shopping for tunes. I also did not get the short answer... the reasons behind things were explained in detail; I guess this could have been the case with uni/eurodyne/apr :laugh: when they were first making a name for themselves...
it seems now that they have that large customer base and high reputation that the few users with issues can eat dirt...


I'm out


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## TeaEightySix (Oct 13, 2004)

I'm going Hondata when they come out with some VAG 1.8t stuff


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

I guess im lucky that my idle is pretty solid. Had a few dips in part throttle, but it has all cleared up in the 1k+ miles I've driven it.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> and lack of support for the said software.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


i feel you :facepalm:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

:facepalm:


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## ghettojetta20vT (Jul 3, 2005)

For those people that are still having the idle problems- as i stated in my earlier posts, i had those exact same issues and now one knew what the problem was. After going threw 3 sets of those crap siemens 630cc, i took a gamble and got some 550cc injectors and that fixed my problem instantly. No more idle dips, no more crap part throttle. Mine idles better than stock now. I realize that when you pay for software you expect to just plug in the ECU and be done with it but you guys have to realize that every car is different. 

I don't know about you guys but before i decided to get a BT upgrade, i researched and i knew what i would be getting into. I knew there were going to be complications like these but was prepared to to deal with them and if needed dump some money and gamble to try to fix the problem. If you guys weren't prepared for the compications then you should have never gotten your car BT'd, simple as that. 

Now im telling you guys a suggestion and try out the *genesis 550cc with a 4bar*. It worked for me and im pretty sure it will work for most of you. Hell you can sell your old 630cc's and get some money back so the cost really isn't a whole lot.

EDIT: I'm not running Eurodyne. I'm running Uni 630cc Mafless.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

ghettojetta20vT said:


> For those people that are still having the idle problems- as i stated in my earlier posts, i had those exact same issues and now one knew what the problem was. After going threw 3 sets of those crap siemens 630cc, i took a gamble and got some 550cc injectors and that fixed my problem instantly. No more idle dips, no more crap part throttle. Mine idles better than stock now. I realize that when you pay for software you expect to just plug in the ECU and be done with it but you guys have to realize that every car is different.
> 
> I don't know about you guys but before i decided to get a BT upgrade, i researched and i knew what i would be getting into. I knew there were going to be complications like these but was prepared to to deal with them and if needed dump some money and gamble to try to fix the problem. If you guys weren't prepared for the compications then you should have never gotten your car BT'd, simple as that.
> 
> Now im telling you guys a suggestion and try out the *genesis 550cc with a 4bar*. It worked for me and im pretty sure it will work for most of you. Hell you can sell your old 630cc's and get some money back so the cost really isn't a whole lot.


Who the hell is going to buy 630's after this thread:facepalm::screwy:


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

I have 550 with a 4 bar and it helped idle but not part throttle.


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## 377 (May 8, 2003)

I'm very interested in seeing what the outcome of this issue is as I'm having the same problem, but with stock injectors and tune.

Here's my setup;
2001 Passat Wagon, 5 sp, AUG engine built by Bob Quindazzi - IE Forged Rods being the only major internal part change in the engine, stock pistons, etc.
Coil packs are newish Hitachi 'E' style
Gpop shop k03/04 Hybrid turbo
Evolution Racewerks TIP and Test Pipe
Forge 007 Diverter Valve
TT Downpipe to a custom 2.5" exhaust w/2 flowmasters (one as a de-resonator, one as a muffler)

The engine is fresh, has all new vacuum lines, injector o-rings, and was installed less than a year ago. 

I'm installing an ABD FMIC this weekend and have 380cc Genesis Injectors & a 3" Audi TT225 MAF to install once I get the cash together for my tune.

The car has been doing this ever since I picked it up from the mechanic who installed the engine, he claimed the rough idle is caused by the K04 turbo throwing off the readings, but I'm not so sure of that. 

*watching and waiting* :thumbup:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

377 said:


> I'm very interested in seeing what the outcome of this issue is as I'm having the same problem, but with stock injectors and tune.
> 
> Here's my setup;
> 2001 Passat Wagon, 5 sp, AUG engine built by Bob Quindazzi - IE Forged Rods being the only major internal part change in the engine, stock pistons, etc.
> ...


i am not 100% sure, but i doubt ur problem is related to ours. we are all BT mostly eurodyne, and running 630cc injectors. as far as i know nobody with factory tune/injectors is having the same prob for the same reasons. you should probably check the FAQ, the info there about coilpacks, plugs, MAp, etc solved my probs on stock turbo :thumbup:


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

Buying new tune Monday. :facepalm:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Have you guys made any injector constant and battery voltage compensation changes? Based on info that MMmmmboost gent posted the IC value in Maestro for 630s is way too high and the BVCs appear to be too. I'm in no shape to be doing much math after the day I've had, but I'm eager to see what this does to my idle and part throttle. I'm looking to reflash the changes in the AM to see how my drive in to work is.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ice-thread&p=70939697&viewfull=1#post70939697


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Can't change any of that, no maestro.
We should not have to adjust that anyway. As much as I hate to say it my idle when I was on APR was solid, even with the maf unplugged. :sly:


I will report back once I get the exhasut leak taken care of. 
I have a feeling it will do nothing.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

i am pulling my ecu this weekend and sending it to Arnold @ Pagparts. he has offered to take a look at my problem. i am little bummed i have to have my car down a few days, but at the same time i am so glad he offered some help after over a year of me running the car. i need relief... :thumbup: he's awesome :heart: no **** lol


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## jbdubn (Feb 3, 2009)

I am having the EXACT same issues on my AEB 630cc file. Not sure if its the file or the injectors, but the 2 things in common are Eurodyne and 630cc siemens. If Arnold @ pagparts comes up with a solution, i have a feeling there will be a flood of people wanting it fixed......


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

I have the Maestro Suite, just have not had any time to even look over some of the key uses for it. Anyone have the numbers off the top of their head that I should try to try and fix this idle? I know we shouldnt have to adjust anything, as this is an off the shelf tune, but its worth giving it a shot if it solves some peoples problems. 

I still have a horrible idle, but its sporadic. I myself have not checked for boost leaks or anything as of yet, but I'm pretty sure that is solid. I finally got Maestro working after Tapp fixed some bugs, of course I was the first to deal with it. 

I'm still running the basefile that Tapp sent me. I tried going into Maestro Editor and changing my injectors over to Siemens 630cc, but I'm unsure on how to save it as a file to add to the tune, so it can be reflashed. I saw the BVC, but as I said, am unsure on what values I should be changing, and what I should look for (other than an improved idle).

I'm interested to see what Arnold will find... He's a great guy, glad hes still trying to lend a hand:thumbup:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Zneith said:


> I have the Maestro Suite, just have not had any time to even look over some of the key uses for it. Anyone have the numbers off the top of their head that I should try to try and fix this idle? I know we shouldnt have to adjust anything, as this is an off the shelf tune, but its worth giving it a shot if it solves some peoples problems.
> 
> I still have a horrible idle, but its sporadic. I myself have not checked for boost leaks or anything as of yet, but I'm pretty sure that is solid. I finally got Maestro working after Tapp fixed some bugs, of course I was the first to deal with it.
> 
> ...



Im not sure what values you would need as I am running different injectors but i can tell you how to do the basics. When you open Maestro you need to open a .tapp file. Make all the necessary changes that will be spoken and click File -> Save. Name the file whatever you want, it will auto end in .tapp extension. Open the flash the click Flash ECU then select the file and wait.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I would pick up a can of seafoam and run around 4oz through the intake poirt on top of the tb. 
Let the car run for a few seconds and shut it off. 

Wait 5 minutes and start it up. 

It will be a smoke show but any leaks around the turbo you will be able to see. 


After I find out if and where and leaks are I take it for a good hard drive


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

hootyburra said:


> I would pick up a can of seafoam and run around 4oz through the intake poirt on top of the tb.
> Let the car run for a few seconds and shut it off.
> 
> Wait 5 minutes and start it up.
> ...


@Dub Nub, What I did last time when Tapp finished the few bugs, was launched the editor, picked my base file, went into the injector wizard, chose 630cc Siemens, then it brought up the bvc, and I left it as it was, closed it, but wasnt prompted to "save" anything, guessing thats bc I shouldve went to file save, then saved it under a different name. I might give this a try after work, but I think the first step for me is checking for any leaks. 

Another question: Goes back to the basics, but when I pressure tested my car for boost leaks, I did not do anything with disconnecting the PCV system. Where should this be disconnected to do the boost leak test? 

@Hooty, I never did a seafoam before, and actually never heard of it until I bought a vw. From what I can see, your saying just spray a decent amount right in the intake? As in take off the filter, and spray that right into the intake to the turbo compressor?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Mines idling well now on the base file +4 torque. Tried some other values but this was the best for me so far.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Zneith said:


> @Hooty, I never did a seafoam before, and actually never heard of it until I bought a vw. From what I can see, your saying just spray a decent amount right in the intake? As in take off the filter, and spray that right into the intake to the turbo compressor?


No you want to put it in before the tb. 
I disconnect the hose on top of the throttle body and run a line from that into the container with the seafaom. 

As far as pressure testing I disconnect the IC piping and send the pressure towards the IC. 
I have my PCV running to the ground. I normally go to 10 psi on the boost gauge and listen for leaks. 
I have went up to 15 before.


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

Well guys sorry to say, but it's the tune. My car hasn't ran this good in years. Now i'm selling this car good luck to all of ya. :beer::beer:


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Jeraho19 said:


> Well guys sorry to say, but it's the tune. My car hasn't ran this good in years. Now i'm selling this car good luck to all of ya. :beer::beer:


Care to share more information. I see above that you were going with a new tune. Please elaborate what you did, etc.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Jeraho19 said:


> Well guys sorry to say, but it's the tune. My car hasn't ran this good in years. Now i'm selling this car good luck to all of ya. :beer::beer:


:facepalm: thanks for the info



Dub-Nub said:


> Care to share more information. I see above that you were going with a new tune. Please elaborate what you did, etc.


+1


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

All deletes (mafless, n249, catless, ect, ect, yadda yadda crap crap) 550cc 4bar fpr.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Jeraho19 said:


> All deletes (mafless, n249, catless, ect, ect, yadda yadda crap crap) 550cc 4bar fpr.


and your tune you went with?


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

Malone


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Jeraho19 said:


> Malone



Did you change your injectors?? Malone told me they don't like 630 siemens injectors.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

Jeraho19 said:


> All deletes (mafless, n249, catless, ect, ect, yadda yadda crap crap) 550cc 4bar fpr.


People have reported idle fixes with 550cc injectors and 4bar fpr on Eurodyne Maestro software FYI


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

FYI it did help my idle, I stated that in an above post. I also said it didn't help my part throttle. 630's ran like garbage in my car some had good luck other such as myself didn't. Point is uni and eurodyne didn't run right in my car.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Jeraho19 said:


> FYI it did help my idle, I stated that in an above post. I also said it didn't help my part throttle. 630's ran like garbage in my car some had good luck other such as myself didn't. Point is uni and eurodyne didn't run right in my car.


Did you change your injectors when you changed to Malone tuning or not? That is the real question here, the problem is likely more related to the injector than the tune.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ it's not the injectors, jeez  read the thread and you will know :banghead:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ it's not the injectors, jeez  read the thread and you will know :banghead:


I've read the thread, but why not answer the question? Malone himself blames the injectors, or at least has in an email to me. So in the name of open information I would like to know what this poster has done, that he now claims was fixed by simply changing the tune


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

sabbySC said:


> I've read the thread, but why not answer the question? Malone himself blames the injectors, or at least has in an email to me. So in the name of open information I would like to know what this poster has done, that he now claims was fixed by simply changing the tune


Yes he changed his injectors. He went with genesis 550cc and a 4 bar fpr along with malone tuning.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Dub-Nub said:


> Yes he changed his injectors. He went with genesis 550cc and a 4 bar fpr along with malone tuning.


So he can't fairly say it's the tune 100% if he changed injectors.

FWIW I calculated my IC, changed my BVC tables and now I'm idleing close to stock on 630cc siemens. A little more tweaking and it should get better yet.


----------



## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> So he can't fairly say it's the tune 100% if he changed injectors.
> 
> FWIW I calculated my IC, changed my BVC tables and now I'm idleing close to stock on 630cc siemens. A little more tweaking and it should get better yet.


Awhile back in this thread, values of the for mentioned were discussed already. This did not help the OP or any others with these problems/injectors. Just my .02.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Zneith said:


> Awhile back in this thread, values of the for mentioned were discussed already. This did not help the OP or any others with these problems/injectors. Just my .02.


I understand what you are saying, but it has helped my setup using maestro. There seem to be a few people here that want to blame the tune, it's strange that some people can get these injectors to run decent and others can't. I don't think the tune should be blamed for that.


----------



## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> I understand what you are saying, but it has helped my setup using maestro. There seem to be a few people here that want to blame the tune, it's strange that some people can get these injectors to run decent and others can't. I don't think the tune should be blamed for that.


Ugh. The OP does NOT have maestro, and if you managed to get your car running right by "tweaking" then a big :thumbup:



hootyburra said:


> Can't change any of that, no maestro.
> .


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Jeraho19 said:


> Ugh. The OP does NOT have maestro, and if you managed to get your car running right by "tweaking" then a big :thumbup:


I realize that the OP does not have Maestro. It is not the tune that is to be blamed if the issue is corrected by changing injectors. Tell me why many cars run right, and others do not with the exact same tune?

I chose to switch from Unitronics to Eurodyne when going BT for this reason exactly. I wanted more control over any issues that might arise. I got what I payed for. When you substantially modify a car there are always issues that will arise. This is normal. Some people with deep pockets pay to have these issues tuned out by a shop, others live with the issues, still more people like many of us do as much as we can to correct the issue ourselves.

I believe Malone offers the same level of adjustability; only they "tweak" the tune and resend you files. Misinformation spreads like wildfire.

I'm glad you got your car running properly with Malone tuning, did you en up running a 4 bar FPR with the 550 injectors?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

waiting on school to lighten up to get the exhaust leak fixed. 
It is minimal and I really don't thing it is going to help anything anyway. 
If I see a set of 550's cheap I will pick them up.


----------



## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> waiting on school to lighten up to get the exhaust leak fixed.
> It is minimal and I really don't thing it is going to help anything anyway.
> If I see a set of 550's cheap I will pick them up.


I'm tired of looking at this thread. Buy injectors


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> waiting on school to lighten up to get the exhaust leak fixed.
> It is minimal and I really don't thing it is going to help anything anyway.
> If I see a set of 550's cheap I will pick them up.


^^^ i heard that i wasnt able to send my ecu out last week because i needed my car for skool stuff. i havent been on vortex that much this past week for the same reason. this is the last week in the semester then finals it's busy for me too :facepalm: hold off on the injector purchase i am pulling my ecu today and sending it tho so hopefully i can get some answer/a fix software wise. i cant see how these clowns can still say its the injectors :facepalm::screwy:



NFrazier said:


> I'm tired of looking at this thread. Buy injectors


then get out :sly:



sabbySC said:


> So he can't fairly say it's the tune 100% if he changed injectors.
> 
> FWIW I calculated my IC, changed my BVC tables and now I'm idleing close to stock on 630cc siemens. A little more tweaking and it should get better yet.


he changed injectors while still on eurodyne to see if it solved his problems. it did not... then he went to new software which malone happens to prefer the 550cc like revo and some others. its no diff than eurodyne of uni preferring the 630cc siemens for their file. but i see you have the 630cc running well in your car. why shouldnt they work well with my car? how is the injector at fault?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> he changed injectors while still on eurodyne to see if it solved his problems. it did not... then he went to new software which malone happens to prefer the 550cc like revo and some others. its no diff than eurodyne of uni preferring the 630cc siemens for their file. but i see you have the 630cc running well in your car. why shouldnt they work well with my car? how is the injector at fault?



You should just go buy new software, you want to blame the tune, that is clear. My car is running fine using Eurodyne and 630cc injectors, that tells me it isn't the tune. 

Malone is going to modify your tune as required until it works well enough for you, and get you to change hardware on top. Spend your money and be happy with that since that seems to be what you want. 

In my case I use maestro to modify my tune (just the basic tune for idle) and that works for me, it's not the tune, when "identical" injectors need minor adjustment to idle to the users standard. Some people have a great idle out of the box, others do not. There are variables regardless of the base tune that can affect your idle, just accept this fact, or pay someone to tune it for you.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Hooty, even the tiniest exhaust leaks will play havoc. I wouldn't look to even be able to offer a baseline on your idle until the exhaust stream pre primary O2 is leak free.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> You should just go buy new software, you want to blame the tune, that is clear. My car is running fine using Eurodyne and 630cc injectors, that tells me it isn't the tune.
> 
> Malone is going to modify your tune as required until it works well enough for you, and get you to change hardware on top. Spend your money and be happy with that since that seems to be what you want.
> 
> In my case I use maestro to modify my tune (just the basic tune for idle) and that works for me, it's not the tune, when "identical" injectors need minor adjustment to idle to the users standard. Some people have a great idle out of the box, others do not. There are variables regardless of the base tune that can affect your idle, just accept this fact, or pay someone to tune it for you.


:banghead: you dont get it :facepalm: ignorance


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> :banghead: you dont get it :facepalm: ignorance


I get "it" well enough that my car idles fine. You on the other hand seem to have a problem that has no solution.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

screwball said:


> Hooty, even the tiniest exhaust leaks will play havoc. I wouldn't look to even be able to offer a baseline on your idle until the exhaust stream pre primary O2 is leak free.



That is why I am waiting to do anything until I get it completely sealed up. 
I am just busy with school and also need to get the motor mounts replaced. 
As soon as I get a free weekend I am going to do some work. 

Tom keep me posted. 

Everything else whining and bitching go back to high school.


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

Big_Tom said:


> then get out :sly:


Sorry big bad thread bouncer. I guess a sense of humor is lacking in your genetic make-up...


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> I get "it" well enough that my car idles fine. You on the other hand seem to have a problem that has no solution.


ummm there is a solution to my problem and i have already spoken to folks that matter in my case, and its not buying new injectors they recommended. u still dont get it and keep babblin on and on... like i said before ignorance :facepalm:



NFrazier said:


> Sorry big bad thread bouncer. I guess a sense of humor is lacking in your genetic make-up...


 i guess u got jokes :facepalm: weaksauce


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> ummm there is a solution to my problem and i have already spoken to folks that matter in my case, and its not buying new injectors they recommended. u still dont get it and keep babblin on and on... like i said before ignorance :facepalm:
> 
> i guess u got jokes :facepalm: weaksauce



Good, keep us posted on your solution than, and don't call me ignorant, that is uncalled for and low. You are acting childish when you have to resort to personal insult to plead your case.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

lets all have a :beer: and realize we drive modified 1.8t's; we are supposed to have issues


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> Good, keep us posted on your solution than, and don't call me ignorant, that is uncalled for and low. You are acting childish when you have to resort to personal insult to plead your case.


i call it like i see it 



hootyburra said:


> lets all have a :beer: and realize we drive modified 1.8t's; we are supposed to have issues


 i hear you hooty, imma PM you my findings/results same goes for Z. the rest of them can eat a ....


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> i call it like i see it
> 
> 
> 
> i hear you hooty, imma PM you my findings/results same goes for Z. the rest of them can eat a ....


You don't have any real findings, you only have what other people tell you. Stay in school, you're going to need it.


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

I love internet bully's. you prob have no friends in real life because this IS your life. It's sad. This is the only place you feel superior. You troll and read and read and read and regurgitate what you read. It's ok, I just "call em as I see em." :thumbup: (i wish this was a middle finger, cause I'm mature)


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> You don't have any real findings, you only have what other people tell you. Stay in school, you're going to need it.


:thumbdown::facepalm:



NFrazier said:


> I love internet bully's. you prob have no friends in real life because this IS your life. It's sad. This is the only place you feel superior. You troll and read and read and read and regurgitate what you read. It's ok, I just "call em as I see em." :thumbup: (i wish this was a middle finger, cause I'm mature)


:thumbdown::facepalm:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

I can use emoticons too :banghead: :facepalm: 

It doesn't change the fact that nothing constructive was gained by the bellyaching that has transpired in this thread.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

You're whining on here doesn't change the fact that the Eurodyne 630 file is set w/ the wrong injector constant and batter voltage compensation levels. If you bought just a flash and don't have Maestro you're F'd to change that.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

screwball said:


> You're whining on here doesn't change the fact that the Eurodyne 630 file is set w/ the wrong injector constant and batter voltage compensation levels. If you bought just a flash and don't have Maestro you're F'd to change that.


+1 :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## jbrehm (May 16, 2006)

How's about we stop all the BS so people can actually learn from this thread. Right now it's about 370 posts of crap, and a dozen or so that actually contain useful information.

I have this problem too, but I'm on Eurodyne 830CC. And my damn Maestro Logging won't work  As soon as I can get it working, I'll post logs and contribute some information.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

jbrehm - 

I had the issue with logging not working as well. It turned out to be my laptop. Remove the windows .net framework and reinstall. Use .net framework 2.0 service pack 2, .net framework v3.0 sp 2, and .net framework v3.5 sp 1

I'm not sure which one exactly will fix your problem, but by removing all .net framework files and updating using these, in order of oldest to newest, I was able to repair the logging issue on my laptop.


To the hand full of people that do not offer constructive input on the subject and seek only to blame:

The issue is not universal to all users with the same flash and injectors, it bridges different tunes, some have even reported issues with different injectors. Some work fine others do not. There seems to be some inherent failure in logic that causes these people to misinterpret the facts and blame the tune, even though clearly and admittedly it is hit or miss, with various tunes on various vehicles working, and others not working.

Some people have proper working setups out of the box, others do not. There are always more variables at work here than the "blame gang" wants to admit, or cares to understand. 

We should work together to solve these issues as a community, it does no good to simply blame and bash a product that is not fully understood.

edit - I will admit that this applies to myself as well, I have stirred the pot as I became annoyed that this thread turned into a bash fest with no constructive input and a complete failure of understanding feeding the bashers.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

One person's opinion on the correct IC w/ 630s: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...Suite-Thread?p=6040930&viewfull=1#post6040930

He also goes on to explain how to tune the BVC through trial and error.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

^^ I used this method and it worked for me. It did take a few tries to get it dialed in though.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> You don't have any real findings, you only have what other people tell you. Stay in school, you're going to need it.


yah yah ok bye now :screwy:



NFrazier said:


> I love internet bully's. you prob have no friends in real life because this IS your life. It's sad. This is the only place you feel superior. You troll and read and read and read and regurgitate what you read. It's ok, I just "call em as I see em." :thumbup: (i wish this was a middle finger, cause I'm mature)


daaaayyuummmmn! how u know so much about me cuuuzzzzz  STFU and let mah nuts go plz thank you



screwball said:


> You're whining on here doesn't change the fact that the Eurodyne 630 file is set w/ the wrong injector constant and batter voltage compensation levels. If you bought just a flash and don't have Maestro you're F'd to change that.


das wasup :thumbup::beer:


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> yah yah ok bye now :screwy:
> 
> 
> daaaayyuummmmn! how u know so much about me cuuuzzzzz  STFU and let mah nuts go plz thank you
> ...



Enough, either do something productive or STFU.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

u aint talkin bout nothin :facepalm: how productive was that last statement, not very :facepalm:ic: h8r


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> u aint talkin bout nothin :facepalm: how productive was that last statement, not very :facepalm:ic: h8r


you are possibly the lamest troll I've dealt with in a long time.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^^ and u still aint talkin bout nothin....


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Chill out or this thread will be locked.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

This thread should be locked, that way we could concentrate on a constructive thread.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Which way did you go on your bvc from the injector wizards value?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Lets get this back on track. 

If everyone could go through and edit the childish posts that would be great.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Three3Se7en said:


> Which way did you go on your bvc from the injector wizards value?


You read block 32, first spot is idle trim, and second is part throttle trim. Adjust your IC by the value of the second block until you get close, it probably won't be perfect. So if the second block is -2.00 that means it is pulling fuel from your values while running, if this were the case, reduce your IC by %2 and see if that makes a difference. You'll have to drive around for a while before evaluating your changes.

Same goes for the BVC, go up or down based on what your first block in block 32 tells you. You should adjust the IC first, get it close than move on to the BVC values. Drive the car for a decent amount of time, with various driving conditions (ie, around town, out onto the highway and such) before reading your values again.

Last check my block 32 values were -1.268 for idle and 0 for part throtle. This will change though each time you read it, but I've managed to get mine within a very tight range, and consequently my idle is great, overall driveability is also improved.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> You read block 32, first spot is idle trim, and second is part throttle trim. Adjust your IC by the value of the second block until you get close, it probably won't be perfect. So if the second block is -2.00 that means it is pulling fuel from your values while running, if this were the case, reduce your IC by %2 and see if that makes a difference. You'll have to drive around for a while before evaluating your changes.
> 
> Same goes for the BVC, go up or down based on what your first block in block 32 tells you. You should adjust the IC first, get it close than move on to the BVC values. Drive the car for a decent amount of time, with various driving conditions (ie, around town, out onto the highway and such) before reading your values again.
> 
> Last check my block 32 values were -1.268 for idle and 0 for part throtle. This will change though each time you read it, but I've managed to get mine within a very tight range, and consequently my idle is great, overall driveability is also improved.


Time for me to jump back on Maestroopcorn:


----------



## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

You really should calculate your IC as per the post by mmmboost in the link to the audi site. make sure to modify your values accordingly in your calculation and use that as a starting point.

don't just go changing stuff willy nilly or there could be a problem.


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## Zneith (Jan 4, 2010)

sabbySC said:


> You really should calculate your IC as per the post by mmmboost in the link to the audi site. make sure to modify your values accordingly in your calculation and use that as a starting point.
> 
> don't just go changing stuff willy nilly or there could be a problem.


No offense, but I HOPE that is common sense......


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

sabbySC said:


> Last check my block 32 values were -1.268 for idle and 0 for part throtle. This will change though each time you read it, but I've managed to get mine within a very tight range, and consequently my idle is great, overall driveability is also improved.



Are we talking long or short term fuel trims here?

0 for part throttle?

That tells me your car is not adapting. There is no way you should be pulling 0 on part throttle considering the car runs off open loop. Its impossible for things to be perfect.


----------



## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Are we talking long or short term fuel trims here?
> 
> 0 for part throttle?
> 
> That tells me your car is not adapting. There is no way you should be pulling 0 on part throttle considering the car runs off open loop. Its impossible for things to be perfect.


I had the same thing happen to mine. I was playing with IC and BVC values on a bad o2 sensor, it was getting both value sin block 032. I switched to a new o2 sensor and only had values in 2nd block the first time i checked, it was weird to me also.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> Are we talking long or short term fuel trims here?
> 
> 0 for part throttle?
> 
> That tells me your car is not adapting. There is no way you should be pulling 0 on part throttle considering the car runs off open loop. Its impossible for things to be perfect.


Long term. It was 0 on one reading only, .78ish on about 5 others on different checks. I have not seen more than 1.2 for part throtle long term adaptation. Idle adaptation varies more per reading but does not vary more than +/- 2 at least not that I have noted.

My car is confirmed to be adapting, here is a screen shot of my block 32 values. This is the most consistent values I see, I checked block 32 frequently while setting my values. This is as good as I can get my ltft to be, and I have a good idle and part throtle response with the settings I am using. I will continue to check these values to see if they are trending in any direction. It may have been just the one reading that was showing a 0 and therefor is an anomaly the values in my screenshot are indicative of my current state.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Here is a video I just made, from my crappy camera set to record video. I had driven for about 20 minutes or so. 

Music was on because I tried it without and the camera's crummy mic just makes it sound like static. You can hear the noise between songs, it's faint and annoying.

Anyway this is my idle, some of you may notice my vac may be lower than yours, that's because I live at higher altitude, it has always been like this, even stock, I'm pretty sure that's normal. Anyway enjoy,


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

wishing I had maestro. :facepalm:


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## umphufu (Mar 17, 2008)

well i too had this bouncy idle.. idles fine for a seconds then the engine hiccups and the AFR goes haywire...

i tried everything to get rid of the idle.. listened to guys on here say its the siemens 630's.. blah blah blah...

then i changed gearboxes to a new 02m.. and presto.. my problem disappeared.. i did some diagnosing on that old gearbox.. turns out that the input shaft bearing was slightly warn (which is apparently common in 02m's) and it was causing the hiccup..

my car now idles 100% fine now.. like stock

and yes im still using the siemens 630's... so in your face!!


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

umphufu said:


> well i too had this bouncy idle.. idles fine for a seconds then the engine hiccups and the AFR goes haywire...
> 
> i tried everything to get rid of the idle.. listened to guys on here say its the siemens 630's.. blah blah blah...
> 
> ...


Very interesting. 
I have always thought there was a sound coming from the transmission... :screwy:


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Damn I have 0 on second set of values on block 32. 1.5 on the first. So .. I guess I didn't do something correctly. Gonna trace that down asap.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Three3Se7en said:


> Damn I have 0 on second set of values on block 32. 1.5 on the first. So .. I guess I didn't do something correctly. Gonna trace that down asap.


I replicated my 0 in the second block finding, it was because I accessed the block wrong. Try accessing block 32 with the car running, you will probably have a new value in the second block.


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

That's with it running.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

well that's not good.


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## umphufu (Mar 17, 2008)

hootyburra said:


> Very interesting.
> I have always thought there was a sound coming from the transmission... :screwy:


yeah dude... i was mind f**ked when i saw that my idle was 100%

i have an idea.. maybe let your car idle and use a piece of hose to listen to your gearbox to see if you can hear the hiccup coming from it to see if its the cause... 

im sure replacing the input shaft bearing is cheaper and a better piece of mind that an you having to sit for the last 3 months trying to figure out WTF is causing your motor to hiccup throwing your AFR out.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

umphufu said:


> then i changed gearboxes to a new 02m.. and presto.. my problem disappeared.. i did some diagnosing on that old gearbox.. turns out that the input shaft bearing was slightly warn (which is apparently common in 02m's) and it was causing the hiccup..
> 
> my car now idles 100% fine now.. like stock
> 
> and yes im still using the siemens 630's... so in your face!!


How does that make sense? Nothing else was touched?

Sooo, your saying everyones idle should be perfect when the car is stopped and the clutch is in; not spinning the input shaft?

Educate me if I'm wrong.


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> How does that make sense? Nothing else was touched?
> 
> Sooo, your saying everyones idle should be perfect when the car is stopped and the clutch is in; not spinning the input shaft?
> 
> Educate me if I'm wrong.


Maybe the problem was actually a poor ground, considering the ground strap goes to the bellhousing?

Come to think of it, someone wanna try jumper cables to the block as a temp check if the ground is really the issue for some people?


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## Jeraho19 (Apr 26, 2007)

hooty, tom what's the word?? I haven't been on in a while...


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

So I got my ltft's trimming again. Forgot to resistor the sai plug.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Jeraho19 said:


> hooty, tom what's the word?? I haven't been on in a while...


i havent had much time to tinker w/ the car because its finals week this week. sorry, not many answers for you guys yet. monday it will all be over and i'll be workin on da car:thumbup:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

sabbySC said:


> Maybe the problem was actually a poor ground, considering the ground strap goes to the bellhousing?
> 
> Come to think of it, someone wanna try jumper cables to the block as a temp check if the ground is really the issue for some people?


^^^

This is actually a really good idea that maybe you guys should explore, maybe beef it up. Some users use to report better idling with the grounding kits that were commonly sold on here.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Jeraho19 said:


> hooty, tom what's the word?? I haven't been on in a while...


finals are done at the end of next week. 2 on friday :thumbdown::banghead:



sabbySC said:


> Maybe the problem was actually a poor ground, considering the ground strap goes to the bellhousing?
> 
> Come to think of it, someone wanna try jumper cables to the block as a temp check if the ground is really the issue for some people?


I did that overground mod with some extra amp power wire I had laying around about a year ago. ...
Could that have an effect?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

hootyburra said:


> finals are done at the end of next week. 2 on friday :thumbdown::banghead:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with the overground mod. Does that mean you added a second ground wire?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

sabbySC said:


> I'm not familiar with the overground mod. Does that mean you added a second ground wire?


Old pic but yes many


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

hootyburra said:


> Old pic but yes many


I'd say that counts as good grounding :thumbup:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I wanted to update. 
I am waiting on a new o2 sensor to show up. 
Throwing 2 fault codes, pretty sure I ripped the wires. ...

The funny thing is the car seems to idle alot better...

Will report back.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Well... If its running better in open loop.. Hardware issue is confirmed eh?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Didn't you say in first post that there is a leak between turbo and manifold? Why are you still wondering what is wrong?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

I know it's been awhile but I just wanted to say I should have the car running again in the next two weeks. 
All exhaust leaks should be taken care of, as well as a new o2 sensor. 

I will report back on the idle...

I still need to find what is causing a draw on the battery. :facepalm:
I need to find my vag cable to get new logs.


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

All exhaust leaks buttoned up and still a rough idle.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

hootyburra said:


> All exhaust leaks buttoned up and still a rough idle.


i'm in the same boat brah :thumbup: :facepalm:


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

Big_Tom said:


> i'm in the same boat brah :thumbup: :facepalm:


:screwy::banghead:

The next step is new injectors.


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

hootyburra said:


> :screwy::banghead:
> 
> The next step is new injectors.


Would it be fair, for me to LOL if it's the injectors?


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## hootyburra (Feb 19, 2007)

NFrazier said:


> Would it be fair, for me to LOL if it's the injectors?


Not at all, I would probably even buy you a :beer:

It just annoys me the file is a 630 file and I am running the recommended injectors.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

hootyburra said:


> I still need to find what is causing a draw on the battery. :facepalm:


If your having battery drain issues that can affect your idle.

@ Hooty & TOM 

Does your idle fluctuate more if you add more current draw to the system? For instance when your foglights/hids/AC/Rad fans turn on? Large current loads can affect injector pulsewidths and MAF/o2 voltage readings. 

I would give Eurodyne a ring and see if they are willing to update your ECM for free w/ the new injector constants.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> If your having battery drain issues that can affect your idle.
> 
> @ Hooty & TOM
> 
> ...


naw, my idle doenst fluctuate at all unless i have exhaust leaks, then it will change depending on how much is blowing out. as my car sits, now everything is great as far as part throttle/full throttle goes(i was having problems before). the idle is much improved since i put new gaskets EVERYWHERE in my exhaust, but still not 100%. i can live with how it drives now, thats why i havent been bitching lately. i have been way too busy with classes lately to keep working on the car. i would like to get my idle as clean as others i've seen, but i'd probably have to buy maestro for that. as far as the injectors go, i dont think the siemens injectors are the problem, it's something in the tune not quite right. i've seen a lot of cars run these injectors w/ no problem. are they the best injector? of course not, but by no means is it a "bad" brand/type. just like i dont have the "best" turbo for my car or the "best" fmic right?  catch my drift


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