# pros and cons of water/methanol injection



## michael02gti (May 25, 2009)

what r the pros and cons of water/methanol injection? who has the best setup? and who would i go to, to help me set it up and tune it?
:


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## dlsolo (Sep 6, 2004)

*FV-QR*

I would suggest reading around here a little bit more. There is massive amounts of info on here about pro's and con's.
Two quick things: Pro's = lower IAT, more timing, less chance of denonation
Con's = none!!


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

*Re: pros and cons of water/methanol injection (michael02gti)*

audi tt gt2871r im using labonta stage 3 water meth it all touch screen and lets you ajust what fuel pump how much hp at crank but to tell you the trouth i dont even notice a diffrance but ive had it for a couple months and i alredy need a new set of spark plugs and i just put new ones in my meth kick in at 10 psi all the way to 25 but i am running revo with race fuel map


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## schimt (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (dlsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dlsolo* »_I would suggest reading around here a little bit more. There is massive amounts of info on here about pro's and con's.
Two quick things: Pro's = lower IAT, more timing, less chance of denonation
Con's = none!!

The only con is if you tune to it and rely on it, you can do some serious damage if the pump fails or you run dry


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## bink_420 (Jul 11, 2008)

cons are as follows...... having to show everyone u tell your set up cuz they want it!


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## SnowTech.4 (Oct 23, 2009)

The big question I often hear is "Why is this not on the car from the factory?"
Its usually from someone who just gained a lot on the dyno or ran cool on repeated long pulls. But sometimes its someone who is calling in with questions.
The big reason is that it is a consumable. Most people are not like us. They have trouble changing their oil on time. So look at it from a VAG perspective: You have this amazing car thats now very, very capable, but your customers must remember to re-fill the tank. Many customers will not, then the car will switch to a lower performance map, and the customers will show up at the dealership complaining. Not a thing wrong with the vehicle, but the dealer now has a hassle. 
Saab had a 2 stroke car back in 50 or 60s, and 2 strokes need some oil in their fuel or they seize. Saab had a mountain of problems with a perfectly good car because people forgot.
So long story short, a proper system is safe, incredibly effective, and easy to use. but you have to keep fluid in the tank.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (schimt)*

the stage 3 kit has a saftey if you run dry .its got to be the best kit out their .the touch just lets you ajust evry thing.it does peak hold time so you can see what your running if you race .im now boosting 30psi on the 2871r and i goes and its hooked up to the washer fluid.


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## Jurjen (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (01ttgt28)*

CONS : 
Having my garage shelving filled up with distilled water and Methyl-Hydrate bottles.
Having to fill it up, is a pain in the ass sometimes. (I run it off my washer fluid reservoir and I can empty the thing in 35miles of spirited driving)


_Modified by Jurjen at 6:45 PM 1-10-2010_


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (01ttgt28)*


_Quote, originally posted by *01ttgt28* »_the stage 3 kit has a saftey if you run dry.its got to be the best kit out their .the touch just lets you ajust evry thing.it does peak hold time so you can see what your running if you race .im now boosting 30psi on the 2871r and i goes and its hooked up to the washer fluid.









Yep, I'll just add that the Stage2 kits can be upgraded with the failsafe protections. However, Stage3 is superior in how it integrates those parts as well as the level of control and monitoring.


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## ds1919 (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

So if I wanted to put water/meth injection in my setup, how would I go about doing this in a 84 GTI w/callaway turbo using the washer reservior?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (ds1919)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ds1919* »_So if I wanted to put water/meth injection in my setup, how would I go about doing this in a 84 GTI w/callaway turbo using the washer reservior?

There's nothing about your set up that'd makes it very different than any other project around here. Choose a MAP-based Stage2 controller and you're good to go. You don't have an ECU that can be logged, so your tuning process will necessarily be different. But, that's about it. 
As for the washer reservoir usage, that simply requires a bulkhead fitting. USRT has them here:

(Click image.)


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## ds1919 (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

i checked out the Stage II WAI system on the USRT site. how does the MAF/MAP controller work to vary the amount of mixture injected? Is it a variable voltage design to vary the voltage to the pump? Or a diaphragm that varies mixture flow thru the controller?
And if its the latter, will the lower flow reduce the atomization from the nozzle?

thanks


_Modified by ds1919 at 1:05 PM 3-15-2010_


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (ds1919)*

MAF actuation takes the 0 - 5V that the sensor emits and uses information to determine engine load (just like a stock ECU). The WAI controller also has a MAP sensor built in to do the same thing (albeit via totally different math). The controller varies voltage to the pump to match the spray delivery volume to engine load (i.e. need for octane and IAT cooling).
The Stage2 controllers have two knobs. One is the trigger point at which the system activates. The other is the maximum flow point. The delivery curve's slope depends on how close/far apart the trigger and max settings are.
USRT provides customized systems with nozzle flow rates picked specifically to achieve cooling and detonation control without any worries about overloading pumps (too high pressure) or poor atomization (from insufficient pressure/pumping capacity). By the end of the sales "experience" with us many guys end up being able to teach others. It's not only about the hardware itself.


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## schimt (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_MAF actuation takes the 0 - 5V that the sensor emits and uses information to determine engine load (just like a stock ECU). The WAI controller also has a MAP sensor built in to do the same thing (albeit via totally different math). The controller varies voltage to the pump to match the spray delivery volume to engine load (i.e. need for octane and IAT cooling).
The Stage2 controllers have two knobs. One is the trigger point at which the system activates. The other is the maximum flow point. The delivery curve's slope depends on how close/far apart the trigger and max settings are.
USRT provides customized systems with nozzle flow rates picked specifically to achieve cooling and detonation control without any worries about overloading pumps (too high pressure) or poor atomization (from insufficient pressure/pumping capacity). By the end of the sales "experience" with us many guys end up being able to teach others. It's not only about the hardware itself.









this man speaks the truth, i spent a good hour and a half running numbers and learning everything i could ever want to know about water/meth injection, Thanks again scott http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ds1919 (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (schimt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *schimt* »_this man speaks the truth, i spent a good hour and a half running numbers and learning everything i could ever want to know about water/meth injection, Thanks again scott http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yes I was lucky to pick his brain.
The setup that USRT sells looks Very Good and intelligent. I will be ordering one of them during the summer during my build.
I thought about designing a cheap WAI last week, but there is no way to get results like the ones USRT sells.
Thanks for all the info Scott, I'll be ordering from you soon!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VAGaddict (Feb 16, 2002)

*Re: (SnowTech.4)*

SnowTech.4 i cant agree with you more. I've been a professional Porsche, Audi, and Volkswagen tech for 6 years now. Customers just don't take care of business. VAG is responsible for some wonderful machines. However, the people that buy them are often times clueless.


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