# 2011 jetta random long cranks starting



## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

Afternoon folks! Ive got a 2011 Jetta (which i love) coming from mk2,mk4's and now this i really enjoy the mk6 platform. 

my only problem with the car is after starting it fine every morning and going to work then letting it sit all day i come out and start the car and it is usually 7-8cranks before finally catching. about every 10th time or so it does this i get a cel and the code is always cyl 3 misfire detected(P0303). 

Ive changed the spark plugs, moved coil pack 1 and 3 around (code does not follow the coil) and also changed the spark plug from 1 and 3 and cant get it to move. Top of the piston looks fine (not wet from fuel dripping down?) 

I have access to a vag com but dont know what to look at and everything else seems fine with the engine

any suggestions??:beer:


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## gugu1981 (Jul 25, 2011)

The car is only 2 years old. Is it not under warranty anymore? Might be easier to just take it in to have it checked?


Peter


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

get the vagcom fault scan and upload it here.

your crank position sensor may be flaking on you; the misfire may just be a by product of the intermittent failure.

vagcom will show intermittent faults, that can hide from other odbii scanners...

good luck...


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

gugu1981 said:


> The car is only 2 years old. Is it not under warranty anymore? Might be easier to just take it in to have it checked?
> 
> 
> Peter


forgot to mention its got 160,000k on it

will check vag com faults and report back


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

mil isnt on yet but these were the codes in it

Saturday,07,September,2013,16:39:31:18735
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.6

Address 01: Engine Labels: 07K-906-055-CBT.clb
Control Module Part Number: 07K 906 055 A HW: 07K 906 055 
Component and/or Version: 2,5l R5/4V G01 9214
Software Coding: 0000075
Work Shop Code: WSC 95884 999 95545
VCID: 2C57E2458F421878AC3
2 Faults Found:

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
P0300 - 000 - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 160778 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2099.14.11
Time: 03:35:13

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1315 /min
Load: 38.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 38.0°C
Temperature: 31.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar

000771 - Cylinder 3 
P0303 - 000 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 160621 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2099.14.09
Time: 04:01:05

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2774 /min
Load: 56.1 %
Speed: 62.0 km/h
Temperature: 50.0°C
Temperature: 35.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar


Readiness: 0000 0000


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

is your vehicle parked in a garage while you're at work, or is it left in a parking lot in the open sun/heat?

how many days/weeks has it been behaving this way?

how is your idle the rest of the time when it's not misfiring?


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

le0n said:


> is your vehicle parked in a garage while you're at work, or is it left in a parking lot in the open sun/heat?
> 
> how many days/weeks has it been behaving this way?
> 
> how is your idle the rest of the time when it's not misfiring?


its outside all day and it will do this mostly when im leaving work. but it wont do it first thing in the morning (so maybe hot start?) the idle is bang on even after it cranks to start its about 1200rpm and then finds its 850ish right after that and isn't all over the place. its been doing this for the last like 5 months and haven't been able to figure it out


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

that's what i'm guessing at right now. hot temps (not sure of the weather where you're at) may be attributing to the hard start symptom. 

sometimes, crank position sensors act up at certain temperatures, but i think it would show on the vagcom scan. 

try this for kicks: when you go to start your vehicle in the evenings after work, move the key to the "on" position and wait 30 seconds before attempting to crank the engine. let's just pretend like you're giving the fuel lines more time to pressurize. if it happens to shorten the amount of cranking needed, try this again tomorrow to confirm.

did you change your fuel filter at 40k miles and at 80k miles?


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

le0n said:


> that's what i'm guessing at right now. hot temps (not sure of the weather where you're at) may be attributing to the hard start symptom.
> 
> sometimes, crank position sensors act up at certain temperatures, but i think it would show on the vagcom scan.
> 
> ...


I have tried the key cycling and didn't prove to find any helping. Someone with an earlier style 2.5 (07 rabbit) had this same issue and it ended up being a leaky injector. After a long drive i took out the coilpack/spark plug and checked with a snake cam and nothing was dripping in #3 from the injector and the top of the cyl looked fine.

I cant say for sure if the filters changed as i only got the car when it turned 130,000km. Ill have a look through the records and see if i can find that out though.

Do you know if the crank sensor is easy to change out or does the whole automatic tranny have to come out to get at it?

:beer: thanks for the help so far!


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ yeah, but you'd get more symptoms with a leaky injector.

the sensors are supposed to be an easy swap. never had to get to mine yet.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

The first thing I thought was leaky injector. The orings are garbage and easily screwed up. I don't even bother attempting to reuse them anymore when working on 2.5. 

Like he said though you should have more symptoms if leaky injector.

A new fuel filter might be good preventative maintenance but be ware they are the expensive kind w/stupid valve in them.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

does you tach move like this when you crank the engine?






what is the tach behavior look like when the long cranking takes place?


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

Here is a YouTube video of me starting the car tonight. Don't mind the extra beeps its my radio-frequency module that also beeps if my voltage gets below a certain # and is also just an addition to the extra cranking I'm sure. 






Thanks!


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ your crank position sensor seems to be working properly. at least at the time of that video being shot.

have you had your battery tested lately? i know it seems rather early for it to be acting up, but the length of cranking time in that video is similar to what my mkv was doing for a few months. it would always start, but it took three-four times as long (~2.5-3 seconds) as it does now that i have a new battery in it. i had my old battery tested and it was coming in way low (55-60) on the cranking amps. low enough that the worker was wondering how my vehicle was even starting. i drove it around like this for another two months and finally got it replaced because it almost left me stranded during one of our 100°F days. now it starts almost instantly.

just so we aren't looking past the obvious, get your battery's cranking amps tested at one of the part stores.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Either start throwing new parts at it, or wait for the problem to home to a head.


I seafoam my engine every other oil change. 1/3 intake vac line, 1/3 crank, 1/3 goes to half full gas tank. I change my oil about 30 miles after I sea foam the crank/intake.

My original 09 battery and plugs still running strong. My car takes about the same time to start up but doesn't stumble/drag at end like yours is...

It sounds like a weak injector or something for some reason. The engine isn't kicking in with a WHOMP like 2.5's do when they fire up. I see your concern but the car isn't reporting issues and it does start pretty ok still.

Bat/plugs/fuel filter/air filter, and seafoam.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ don't throw parts at it just yet. get the battery tested first; it's free 

my battery from dec 2008 just went out a few weeks ago. the interesting thing was that up until the last few weeks, it would crank/start just fine. it's just that the duration of cranking before the engine fired up, kept getting longer and longer. as if, it was using all of its amperage at the starter and starving other vital components of energy. that's the only thing i could get out of it, because everything still worked, it just took a little longer. now that i have restored the cranking amps (nothing else because the voltage test was ok), it has absolutely no hesitation on the startup.

don't forget that the afternoon summer heat can really put a damper on your car's battery. i had good morning starts and good evening starts (i park underground a cooler garage at work) even with my failing battery. the final straw was when i needed to put gas in the afternoon, car started up fine, but i drove in 15 minutes worth of traffic before making it to the gas station to fuel up. after fueling, this is where the car almost didn't start. i knew i was stranded when it took that long, but on its last dying revolution, it popped on. straight to the autoparts i went.


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## W220s (Jul 8, 2011)

I get these same long cranks occasionally on my 2011 as well BUT it does it on cold starts as well. Sometimes it turns over in a way that it seems like it's about to stall out and die, it's really weird. Dealer told me it was the battery, they charged it up, but it still does it sometimes. I started leaving the key in the "on" position for a couple seconds before I turn the car on and it seems to do the trick. But still, this really isn't normal angled like to find out what it is.


Sent from my 5


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

W220s said:


> Dealer told me it was the battery, they charged it up, but it still does it sometimes.


if they told you it was the battery, get it replaced. i got a duralast gold at autozone for mine for ~150ish.

if you want a second opinion, get a place like autozone or advance to check it for free.

edit: i've read that some mkvis in houston are having batteries fail after just two years. mine almost lasted 4.5 years here, so there must be something different with the ones they are using in those vehicles.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I would try a new battery first. It is normal for batteries to fail in extreme temperatures because they run optimally around 70 degrees. Above or below they lose a lot of oomph.

You may try electrical grease on your battery terminals w/a couple of those little felt pads. Make sure to polish the suckers up really good with a good metal polish first. Don't forget batteries vent explosive hydrogen gasses, especially old ones sitting in the hot sun... so be careful.

I had to replace my battery cable ends. I almost forgot about that. I was having issues and it turned out to be a positive cable end. They are very weak and easily corrode/distort from being overtightened and basically just don't have enough meat on their bones.

Your ground is also pretty puny. You may want to upgrade the big three grounds/cable ends on your car and see if this issue doesn't go away. If nothing else you'll get another mpg and have a lot less electrical gremlins pop up down the road.

Yes, it is very common for new cars to need upgraded grounds because the ones from the factory only work well for about the duration of a warranty! :laugh: Ask anyone that has done electrical work to their car what the biggest improvement came from and they'll tell you upgraded/new grounds or a new battery/alternator.


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

walked into the dealership and walked out with a oem battery today. so far results are positive and ill know for sure tomorrow afternoon when i leave work how it starts. will report back!!


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ definitely in for updates...


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

well after putting the battery in and driving the car to lunch (also i got 630km/55L**with racks on and the can of seafoam) the car seems to be starting better. Here is the start from leaving work this afternoon (in the lovely rain from tropical storm Gabriella )

I am going to monitor it over the next couple days and see how it continues to start


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

it sounds a little better. something is still going on.

what did the battery test show?

and what type of spark plugs did you use when you replaced them?


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

i called the parts store and the Bosch rep told me these ones are for my car. i was a little weary as they are copper but i'm a diesel guy so its a spark plug 










haven't really drove it much the last few days :beer:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I would stick to original OEM plugs.


I've asked my parts store what plugs I need for my car before and they didn't really seem to know so I stayed away from aftermarkets. I'm still on original plugs but I do blast the carbon off them daily at 72k miles they should die any day.

There is a guy around here that sells the correct plugs for a lot cheaper than the dealership. They want something absurd like $25/each.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

tchilds said:


> I'm still on original plugs but I do blast the carbon off them daily at 72k miles they should die any day.


the oem plugs can probably last ~100k miles without fail. i would not recommend leaving them in there that long though, due to the risk of them seizing in the head. if someones wants to do 100k miles with them, they should take them out at ~50k miles, put some anti-seize on the threads and pop them back in.

this is obviously if you're having to skimp. but it can get you by for a long while until you can afford your new plugs.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Any resolution yet? I am curious if this is a timing chain issue. Please keep us posted either way.


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## 92golfer (Jun 12, 2002)

I dont see it being timing chain related from what i read the 2011 2.5's dont have the same timing chain issues as the 07-08 etc engines

Car still has hesitation starting, i am going to try not copper plugs this time around and see how that goes


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

I'm aware this is an old thread but did you finally find solution to your problem?


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