# [email protected] 16V



## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

Well I can finally post here with some clout. 
Got the turbo in and done this weekend at Kinetic Motorsport. Im running thier 16V kit with a Evo TD05 16G. Shawn Vaneer and crew had the install done in 20hours which when you see the quality of the workmanship is pretty hard to believe. Nothing like going in NA on thursday morning and being boosted friday night.
The car is currently running at 6psi with a very conservative tune as there wasnt time to really tune it for max power. The first couple of runs with my old NA maps and agressive timing were yeilding 243hp or so at 6psi. So I can safely say that the motor and DTA are responding well to boost. 
My 257K non-bolt-kit stock tranny on the other hand....
Here are some specs and links to the buildup over the last 5 months. More pics of the turbo install are coming.
Project I
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1184514
Project II
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1260070
Project III
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1


































_Modified by 16volt at 10:45 PM 4-18-2004_


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (16volt)*

thats impressive u get 2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (16volt)*


_Quote »_243hp or so at 6psi

How is that even possible?!
AMAZING!
That's a really nice manifold too!


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (Agtronic)*

The 243 runs were with the NA advance settings. There wasnt any pinging but we pulled allot of timing out and added fuel so it was safer for a base line tune. Better to be safe than sorry, and to be honest 227hp at 6psi aint all that bad. 
And in a 2600lb Scirocco it is enough to light the tires at will.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (16volt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16volt* »_The 243 runs were with the NA advance settings. There wasnt any pinging but we pulled allot of timing out and added fuel so it was safer for a base line tune. Better to be safe than sorry, and to be honest 227hp at 6psi aint all that bad.

Don't get me wrong, I think 227 is bad to the bone aswell! I'm really impressed!


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Yeah Shawn knows his stuff for sure,good work going to him.Sounds like he built you a bad ass car.Time to break some trannies now!


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (Agtronic)*

Yeah the quality of the manifold and kit are pretty unreal. Although most of my plumbing is Scirocco specific Kinetic's work in my book is really unsurpassed.


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## Holy Piston (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (16volt)*

Who makes that manifold?And what knind of turbo are you showing us the turbine side of?


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## knutman2u (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (16volt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16volt* »_227hp at 6psi aint all that bad.

Dude! You suck! Give me the parts list along with prices... I need to know what to ask Santa for Christmas!!








I could only imagine getting it around 10-15psi...


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (knutman2u)*

That's a really nice mani...I'm surprised they flange them up for Mitsu turbos http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (knutman2u)*

Its a EVO TD05 16G turbo with the internal gate removed and ported.
Both the turbo and manifold are from Kinetic Motorsport.
http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/main.html


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## vdubturbo (Aug 31, 2001)

Is that 227 at the wheels or crank? How does that 16g compare in size to a T3 or a T4?


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (vdubturbo)*

Thats wheel HP.


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## SvenRasta (Nov 16, 2002)

*Re: (16volt)*

Makes me wanna get off my a$$. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## blackbunny (Jan 31, 2003)

*Re: (16volt)*

nice #'s http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vdubturbo (Aug 31, 2001)

*Re: (16volt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16volt* »_Thats wheel HP. 

What about the turbo size? What's a close Garrett equiv? Just curious...


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (vdubturbo)*

7cm exhuast housing is about the same as a .63


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Wow, that is impressive. You have headwork and cams done?! THose actual dyno numbers or G-Tech???


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## 97 Golf SC (Nov 14, 2001)

*Re: (BoostedOne)*

What engine is this you are running? 1.8 16V, 2.0 16V . . . ?


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## vdubturbo (Aug 31, 2001)

*Re: (1997 Golf GL)*

Not trying to be a d|ck, but after looking at a compressor map for a TD05 16G "big wheel", I fail to see how that's possible. 
What are the rest of the specs?


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (vdubturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubturbo* »_Not trying to be a d|ck, but after looking at a compressor map for a TD05 16G "big wheel", I fail to see how that's possible. 
What are the rest of the specs?









Well sorry to say, thats what I got. A compressor map is really only one part of the math. Ill put the chart up tonight.
2001cc 16V
DTA Engine Mangment
Stage 3 Hanaford Head
9:1 Compression
JE Forged Pistons
Balanced
Kinetic 16V Turbo manifold
Kinetic Evo TD05 16G
Tial 35mm BOV
Tial WG


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## vdubturbo (Aug 31, 2001)

*Re: (16volt)*

Nice setup for sure. Very impressive numbers for that turbo. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (16volt)*

You forgot to list the TT cams. Shawn told me boost was rock solid at 6.6 PSI on that run, so you should just round up to 7.


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (Angular)*

Nice numbers, very impressive.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (16volt)*

Kinetik's dyno is a bit notorious for giving high numbers. Stock Vr putting down 192 whp, and lots of others. However, i've seen lots of accurate looking numbers come out of it too. I don't know if there are some setup problems going on or what (perhaps they have some problems with their inputted info).
P.s. I don't want to rain on your parade. It looks like you have a great setup and have had a great setup. Van neer nost definitely knows his stuff. I just question his dyno results sometimes.
edit for spelling.



_Modified by TBT-PassatG60 at 2:48 PM 4-19-2004_


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## DIRTYONE (Feb 16, 2004)

nice #,s


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## roccoturbo (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: (DIRTYONE)*

never mind dyno numbers that could be very generous or not just i the track then will see how much hp you got. Nice numbers but i had a crappy 183whp that pulled [email protected] on street so you all know what i think of a dyno#


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## vw16vcabby (Sep 19, 2001)

congrats on the numbers. and give it a month, boost will be raised.


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## JustinOlson (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (vw16vcabby)*

Good JOB http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (JustinOlson)*

Just got a ride in the beast tonight. Pretty darn nice smooth and linear power delivery for only 6.6 PSI. It's going to be a real monster at 12 PSI. Best to just take it easy and get it all tuned and dialed in with lower boost before kickin' it up a notch. We got ISV, tach, boost guage and EGT gauge to straighten out as well as the damn wideband O2.
Definitely gonna be a fun ride down to ND *this* year!


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: (Angular)*

congrats http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif those are some really impressive #s


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## Freerider1125 (Apr 14, 2003)

*Re: (8716vrocco)*

Nicely Done


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (Freerider1125)*

Yeah i hear that same thing whenever anybody puts any numbers down on Kinetics dyno. Same thing I heard when I put down 155hp N/A on ECS's dyno. It is what it is.
Here are some pics from today, its a little dirty but its been raining all day so what can you do. 
Hope you like 304 stainless.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (16volt)*

where can i get the tube for the intake...i want one of those really bad...


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (PjS860ct)*

same here. where can I get the piping coming off the intake on the turbo? I never though about running it like that.


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## draculia (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: (vdubturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubturbo* »_Not trying to be a d|ck, but after looking at a compressor map for a TD05 16G "big wheel", I fail to see how that's possible. 
What are the rest of the specs?









there are the small, big, and evo 16g. the evo is the largest. i don't feel like digging up specs right now.


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## vdubturbo (Aug 31, 2001)

*Re: (draculia)*

Let me assist you. This is a map for a TD05 16G "Big Wheel".


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (PjS860ct)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PjS860ct* »_where can i get the tube for the intake...i want one of those really bad...









It was hand fabbed at Kinetic so it's not an off the shelf item. You'll need to have one custom made to fit your turbo and the position your turbo manifold places it. With all those bends and welds, to me that looks like about a $200 piece with parts and labor, maybe more.


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (Angular)*


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (16volt)*

Im sure Shawn and the Kinetic crew would be happy to fab one up for you. The difficulty lies in making one for your particular setup without the car being in thier shop. I highly reccomend dropping by and watching them work, its really amazing. I hope to have the buildup pics soon.
All this plumbing was done from raw 304 tube and bends. So it all must be mocked, tacked and fitted a couple of times before the final welds are laid on. 
There was talk of doing jigs of my plumbing but it would be Scirocco 16V and Kinetic manifold/turbo specific. I havent gotten a final kit price but I will let you know when I find out.


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## llutman (Mar 23, 2001)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (TBT-PassatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_Kinetik's dyno is a bit notorious for giving high numbers... I just question his dyno results sometimes.


No need to question anymore! The dyno kinetic has can be (and is, afaik) set up so it reads like other brands such as a dynojet.


_Modified by llutman at 6:18 PM 4-20-2004_


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## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (llutman)*

DAMN NICE http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## roccoturbo (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (turbojeta3)*

Nice numbers but for a built head the power and torque falls right off just like a stock 8v head? might need a bigger wheel on that turbo, but again really really nice set up very clean, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to kinetic


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (llutman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *llutman* »_
No need to question anymore! The dyno kinetic has can be (and is, afaik) set up so it reads like other brands such as a dynojet.

_Modified by llutman at 6:18 PM 4-20-2004_

this statement is based upon what?


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (TBT-PassatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_this statement is based upon what?


Based on what Shawn has told her, and me as well. Apparently it can be calibrated to emulate a handful of other well-known dynos.
The bottom line is that any dyno number is a relative #. It is not crank HP and shouldn't be compared to #'s produced on different dynos.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (roccoturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *roccoturbo* »_Nice numbers but for a built head the power and torque falls right off just like a stock 8v head? might need a bigger wheel on that turbo, but again really really nice set up very clean, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to kinetic

A few things are going on here. First off, the cat back is 2.25" so it's a bit constricting at peak power levels. Second, the turbo is probably falling way out of its efficiency range because the wastegate is set to only 6.6 PSI. Third, the TT camset shines in the midrange and torque peak is usually around or before 5K RPM.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (16volt)*

that piping is sick http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
nice #'s


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: [email protected] 16V (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
Based on what Shawn has told her, and me as well. Apparently it can be calibrated to emulate a handful of other well-known dynos.
The bottom line is that any dyno number is a relative #. It is not crank HP and shouldn't be compared to #'s produced on different dynos.

Shawn is amongst the best of the best in VW tuning in my mind. If he tells me something I accept it as fact. However, i don't believe his dyno numbers are always accurate. II've seen dyno results that seem dead on what you'd expect, and then another car is in a totally different league. 'm not sure whats going on, but it puts out numbers higher, and sometimes WAY higher the all other dynos. The numbers this motor is showing is what a VR turbo running at 6psi would put down, not a 16v. I've seen dynos of stock vr6 putting down 190 Whp, and chipped VRs putting down over 200Whp. Anyone on this board will tell you that these numbers are high. Do i know what the problem is - no. Is all of this just my impression based off of others - yes. But i do know that there are enough variables within the dyno's tuning (ramp angles, inlet air temp, ambient temp, barometric temp. relative humidity, mechanical efficiency, inertia correction, resultant correction) that numbers can accidentally or incidentally be swayed.
I think your car put down great numbers, and i'm jealous of your setup. Keep up the good work, and i'm sure you'll be smiling all summer long.
i think Angular said it best though "It is not crank HP and shouldn't be compared to #'s produced on different dynos". I believe this 100%. Its not about what others have achieved on other dynos, or on different days. Its about using it as a tool to see how the build up and tuning of your car progresses.


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