# Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

Questions:
Where would the nozzle be located, I would assume post-throttle body?
Should I buy a kit with a reservoir or use my windshield washer fluid reservoir tank?
Thank you very much


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

Tom,
Get one of these: http://www.intengineering.com/....html








(I will be using one on my car)


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*

Good call James, leaning towards the Snow Stage 2 at this point http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

You also need some LSD, that would go great with your meth.


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## VEE-DUBBER (Nov 22, 2000)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (RipCity Euros)*

For the nozzle, weld a bung into the intercooler piping in a straight section a foot or two before the t-body. don't use one of those plates. plus if you use one of those adapter plates it shifts your whole piping setup so it won't fit as well, or require some coupler mods. not a big deal, just not a clean install. i like to tap the bottom of the washer res. on cars i do for the feed. especially on cars with a low washer fluid light from the factory makes it easy to not run the pump dry, and you don't have to install a float switch. Pick up a Devils own progressive kit. send MKII16V a message.


_Modified by VEE-DUBBER at 2:22 AM 5-29-2009_


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (VEE-DUBBER)*

^^ Appreciate the suggestions
If I was gonna do it your way, where would you suggest I tap the piping?


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## VEE-DUBBER (Nov 22, 2000)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (VEE-DUBBER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VEE-DUBBER* »_For the nozzle, weld a bung into the intercooler piping in a straight section a foot or two before the t-body. 

_Modified by VEE-DUBBER at 2:22 AM 5-29-2009_


OR you could tap the piping but adding a bung makes it easier to remove it and less change of messing anything up. i've done it both ways, so whatever works out for you.


_Modified by VEE-DUBBER at 2:57 PM 5-29-2009_


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_Tom,
Get one of these: http://www.intengineering.com/....html








(I will be using one on my car)

Does anyone know if that plate, which is slated for a OBD 2 VR6, is compatible with the 24v throttle body flange?


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

I would just call up Integrated and ask them for the right one (I know they have one that will work on the 24v, but I am not sure if it's on the site.)


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_I would just call up Integrated and ask them for the right one (I know they have one that will work on the 24v, but I am not sure if it's on the site.)

Okay, so Pete has notified me that it fits the 2.8L and not the R32.
Now onto the next perplexing question. Which kit is good for me? I've watched some videos of the snow performace installation on youtube for turbodiesel trucks and they indicated that 550 cc/min is required for 500-650 hp applications. I would imagine that is a minimum 2 nozzle spray application. Most of the kits available currently are just 1 nozzle kits, except for the Snow stage 3. 
The only pushback I have on the stage 3 is I can't really advance timing since I'm still on a chiptune to really take advantage of the pulse-width injection nor does it justify the cost of the kit $700+


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## VEE-DUBBER (Nov 22, 2000)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

Devils Own you can go dual nozzle. you just add a t to the line coming out of the pump.


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

Are you running an r32 throttle body too? I wasn't aware.
I have a snow performance stage 2 setup that I will be putting in. Injector pulse based water/meth is the best, second best is maf, then last would be boost based. 
You can advance your timing, with Lemmiwinks.


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## IHookItUuup (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*

It is recommended that the injector is placed near the throttle body - just have your fabricator weld a bung in place! The Devils Own progressive controller fits very nicely in the ashtray and you can close the door to hide it when viewing is not needed. The washer reservoir is ideal.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (IHookItUuup)*

Snow Stage 2 + VC100 Controller + IE throttle body nozzle plate has been ordered http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

I would have gone with the MAF based..


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*

VC100 - Controller for 25+psi applications.............


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

Only problem with boost based is, you hit full boost at what, 4k rpm or so, maybe a bit less?
Then boost stays constant, but the RPMs and airflow increase, but your watermeth injection rate WONT increase because the psi is the same.
It should still work though.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*

I hope it works........
My main goal for watermeth is just to keep EGTs lower as an insurance against detonation........
I don't care to advance my timing or modify anything with the current setup...........
Down the line, I will probably pickup the Aquamist injector base setup if I really want to go all out, it is summer time and this mod is just to keep my EGTs cooler...........


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## VEE-DUBBER (Nov 22, 2000)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

he will be moving the same amount of air. just at a quicker rate as rpm's increase. his controller is just fine. your car will run more timing because it see's lower intake temps and no detonation or knock with the water/meth. it's good for roughly 30whp without changing the boost level. what are you using for engine management? you could even run 87 octane with the water/meth. Did a test on a 500whp srt-4. 92 octane no water had 2 counts of knock on the pull. 87 with water only 1 count and ran great still. obviously i'm not telling you to do this. it's amazing how much of a safe zone this gives you even with crappy gas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by VEE-DUBBER at 11:58 AM 6-11-2009_


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (VEE-DUBBER)*

Running stock ECU w/C2 630cc program.......
Car already makes 530+whp and 550+ on pump gas and Q16..........
Will be going back to the dyno with a bigger hotside + watermeth to see if I can hit 600+ using 109octane or higher fueling and 30+psi of boost...........


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

Got the rest of my alky injection stuff in today...........
























So where is a good place to actually pick up the juice itself? The kit didn't come with any liquids................


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## BLSport (Dec 24, 2005)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom Long* »_So where is a good place to actually pick up the juice itself? The kit didn't come with any liquids................

You can buy Snow's Boost Juice (ask Weiss, Summit sells it) or you can buy methanol from a local track or someplace like this... http://www.worldwideracingfuel...90072 ...and mix it with distilled water yourself.
Some folks use winter grade windshield washer fluid and/or products like HEET with good success, but I prefer using pure methanol mixed with distilled water.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (BLSport)*

Thank you, I was leaning towards real methanol as well and wanted to stay away from cheaper substitutes also....................


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom Long* »_Thank you, I was leaning towards real methanol as well and wanted to stay away from cheaper substitutes also....................

Crap there was a site somewhere that listed the contents of most of the common washer fluids. (Can't remember where) There were SEVERAL that were exactly the same content as boost juice. (Roughly 50% methanol and 50% water) Just look at the ingredients on the bottles.. BTW Don't be scared of the blue DYE -- even 'boost juice' has dye in it...

_Quote, originally posted by *VEE-DUBBER* »_he will be moving the same amount of air. just at a quicker rate as rpm's increase. his controller is just fine. your car will run more timing because it see's lower intake temps and no detonation or knock with the water/meth. it's good for roughly 30whp without changing the boost level. what are you using for engine management? you could even run 87 octane with the water/meth. Did a test on a 500whp srt-4. 92 octane no water had 2 counts of knock on the pull. 87 with water only 1 count and ran great still. obviously i'm not telling you to do this. it's amazing how much of a safe zone this gives you even with crappy gas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Injection is post maf. The car will NOT see any difference in IATs. The ratio of w/m to air _will_ decrease as you approach redline with that controller.


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## VEE-DUBBER (Nov 22, 2000)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*

intake temp sensor is in the manifold. the water helps draw heat from the intake charge


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (VEE-DUBBER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VEE-DUBBER* »_intake temp sensor is in the manifold. the water helps draw heat from the intake charge

I am pretty sure (at least on a 24v) the IAT sensor is a part of the MAF.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*

Does anyone know the exact holding capacity of the OEM washer fluid tank?


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## SDKMF (Oct 22, 2002)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

i dont know that kit very well but i hope it has a decent check valve because there is a certain amount of syphoning that occures post TB. 
I like to inject pre tb so idle syphoning is null.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (SDKMF)*

Please elaborate..............


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## BLSport (Dec 24, 2005)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom Long* »_Please elaborate..............

When mounted post throttle body, the injection nozzle is exposed to vacuum which can draw fluid through the system when not desired.
Some use a check valve with a high cracking pressure (higher than that to which the nozzle is exposed during moments of vacuum), mounted inline between the pump and the nozzle. They are relatively inexpensive but can sometimes be inconsistent in operation, and they also reduce the pressure at the nozzle by the same amount required to overcome their cracking pressure.
I prefer to use a solenoid (Snow and others sell them) for more consistent performance without the pressure drop, mounted inline between the pump and the nozzle, close to the nozzle. I activate it with a pressure switch adjusted to a boost pressure just slightly below that at which my progressive controller is tuned to turn on the pump.


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (BLSport)*

I have a solenoid for my setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (PhReE)*

We might try to use the Prologger to control the injection.........
i.e. utilize the nitrous control features to run the watermeth instead, that way its all ways tied to AFR...............








If everything works out according to plan, I'll be selling the VC100 controller if anyone is interested, it'll be BNIB.................


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

Anyone of pics of a two nozzle setup?


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## Lew_Dog (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom Long* »_Anyone of pics of a two nozzle setup?


I never took pics of my setup....


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*

throttle spacers are nice, i use one but you can always tap your intercooler pipe too. as far as using the stock res goes its a matter of opinion. do you ever use your window sprayer? if not use the stock one and save a lil.


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## MK4WolfsburgJetta (Mar 17, 2008)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (velocity196)*

Put one nozzle right after your FMIC and one right after the TB using that spacer. You get the best of both worlds that wat. Super cold IATs and alot of knock suppressant.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Lew_Dog)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4565088


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## MechEngg (Jan 13, 2009)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (MK4WolfsburgJetta)*

What MK4WolfsburgJetta said
The one after your FMIC will cool your intake temps drastically. But don't put it infront of your FMIC. If you put it infront of your FMIC, sure it will give you temp drop, but not nearly as much and it will also cause a bigger pressure drop through the intercooler due to the higher density gas/liquid
The one right before the intake manifold will reduce engine knock due to higher octane levels. 
IMO get a dual nozzle sprayer because it does both so you can advance your timing and get lower intake temps


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## rono1 (Apr 23, 2002)

*Re: Watermeth Setup - 24v VRT (Tom Long)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom Long* »_
Will be going back to the dyno with a bigger hotside + watermeth to see if I can hit 600+ using 109octane or higher fueling and 30+psi of boost...........


nice setup.. Vr-t's rule...
Well one thing is for certain.. you do not need to run 109+oct with watermeth.. Hell as long as your doing a 50/50 mix your already seeing 117oct when your pump is on.. 109+ will not affect anything but using 109oct is the same as 91oct when your using watermeth. 
The yellow bottle of HEET at your local autoparts store is 99.9% methanol.. FYI
Lets see those new #'s!!! again great build.


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom Long* »_Questions:
Where would the nozzle be located, I would assume post-throttle body?

If you're after the TB, you need to install check valves so that the engine isn't siphoning with the throttle plate closed.
The most common place for the injector is between the intercooler and throttle body.
No need for a check valve.


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