# Help wit code 16705! Car wont start



## ProjekBomb (Nov 11, 2005)

Hey guys I woke up yesterday morining and my car wouldnt start up. I scanned it for code and got this code:

16706 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): No Signal
P0322 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

16706/P0322/000802 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): No Signal
Possible Symptoms

* Engine shuts off
* Engine doesn't start
* Speedometer inoperative
* Glow Plug Indicator Lamp (K29) flashes 

Possible Causes

* Engine Speed Sensor (G28) loose
* Engine Speed Sensor (G28) faulty 

Possible Solutions

* Check Engine Speed Sensor (G28) 

Special Notes

* The Engine Speed Sensor (G28) is also used as a reference sensor for the crankshaft position. 

From what I found online it seemed like that sensor had gone bad so I ran to the stealership to buy that sensor. I installed the new sensor and the car started and then fell straight on its face. It will start up but if you give it any gas it will cut off. I scanned it again and got this code:

16705 - Engine Sped Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal P0321 - 35 - - - Intermittent

16705/P0321/000801 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal

Possible Symptoms
Engine shuts off
Engine doesn't start
Speedometer inoperative
Glow Plug Indicator Lamp (K29) flashes
Possible Causes
Engine Speed Sensor (G28) loose
Engine Speed Sensor (G28) faulty
Possible Solutions
Check Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
Special Notes
The Engine Speed Sensor (G28) is also used as a reference sensor for the crankshaft position and correlates with the Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 1 (G40) and Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163).
When found in a VW Golf/Jetta (1J/9M) or Audi A3 (8L) with 1.9l TDI-PD (AXR), check TPI 2007067 which explains issues with electro magnetic interference. A modification to the wiring will fix this problem, extensive details can be found in the named TPI. Even though this TPI was originally released for VW Golf/Jetta (1J/9M), a customer of ours came across the same issue on an Audi A3 (8L).
When found in a 2004 VW Golf, Jetta, or New Beetle with 1.9l TDI-PD (BEW), check for TSB number 97-05-03 or 97-05-04 calling for a flash update to the ECU and a secondary ground installation. This applies if ECU software version is below 6328; current software version should be 7000 or higher.

And well this is where I am as not, Stuck and have no idea whats wrong. If someone could help me out I really need to get this car running as its my daily. Mods go as followed:
K04
3" TBE(no cat,no muffler)
eurojet FMIC
apr 93 software
Not installed yet bc i dont have the ko4 software yet which I was planning to get next week.
225TT injectors 
4bar FPR


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

Based on you list of mods, I'm thinking this is a 1.8T of some type... Probably a Golf/Jetta, however that's a random guess. Please post the complete Auto-Scan from this car and include the year, make and model if the VIN isn't shown.

Have you checked for fuel?


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## ProjekBomb (Nov 11, 2005)

Ah **** ya it's a 2004 jetta GLI awp motor I believe


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## ProjekBomb (Nov 11, 2005)

bump


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

Please post the complete Auto-Scan from this car. Have you checked for fuel?


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## ProjekBomb (Nov 11, 2005)

Wont be able to post the full scan till late tonight. but as far as fuel what would I be looking for?


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## rswilson (Aug 22, 2007)

did you clear faults/reset basics after replacing sensor? was the part number the same? i wouldn't bother checking fuel if the only fault you have is for the crank sensor. Crank controls ignition not fuel. Also watch your tach while cranking. does it bounce up after a bit of cranking?


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## BigJohnsonRI (Oct 3, 2009)

I agree with Uwe. Believe it or not, a bad fuel pump can "cause" this code to set. Have a second person crank the car while you check fuel flow.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

::::: WARNING EMERGENCY FORUM ACTION MESSAGE:::::

THIS POST VACATED BY JACK TO PROTECT CONTENT FROM FALLING INTO THE GAPING HOLE OF THE VORTEX! 

THIS SOLAR SYSTEM IS IN DANGER OF A BLACK-HOLE!
YOU TO CAN ESCAPE!
I CAN BE FOUND VIA THIS DHD STAR-GATE ADDRESS......
http://forums.ross-tech.com/member.p...European_Parts


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## ProjekBomb (Nov 11, 2005)

Ok so i replaced the fuel pump today and turns out I am having the same problem. I did not check the the sensors had the same VIN, b/c I picked it up at the same dealer ship we bought the from so i assumed they cross referenced the part due to the fact the most of the time i go in for a part they pull up my VIN #. I scanned the car again here is the whole scan. I can take a vid of how the car sounds when it on if it will help. 


Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.lbl 
Part No: 06A 906 032 SM 
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0030 
Coding: 07510 
Shop #: WSC 79666 
VCID: 7BF8E5BA4397 
3VWSE69M35M063615 VWZ7Z0D0731100 

1 Fault Found: 
16705 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal 
P0321 - 35-00 - - 
Readiness: 0110 1101


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

I realize you have replaced the electric fuel pump, but have or did you check for fuel supply? If not, do you have power and ground to the pump while cranking? 

Have you checked for spark while cranking?


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## wingnut52003 (May 19, 2010)

just got done with the same thing on a 01 1.8t jetta wouldn't start up but would crank its the Crank sensor. car started once then checked oil it wouldnt start up again u can test the sensor the plug is located right on the front above the filter housing easiest to access by removing the plate that holds the dipstick tube out of the way. its a gray three prong plug should read about 780-1000 ohms across prongs two and three its good. if ya dont know what two and three are try it on all of them in any sequence. if ya got infinite u got a shorted sensor. To find the actual sensor mounted on the motor when looking at the engine from the front its just to the right of the oil filter. its got one 10 millimeter bolt in it. easiest to get at from underneath i droped the oilfilter to get at it easier.The sensor senses what location the tdc and then is calculated to get you rpms. if it cannt sense that it cuts out the ignition process. and your code is telling me that its the engine speed that it is faulting on. After i replaced it on mine it started right up.


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## ProjekBomb (Nov 11, 2005)

Ok thanx guys for the info..I will take a look at this stuff Tom b4 wrk and post up what I find. The only ques is how would I check for spark and fuel pressure.


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## TedG (Dec 13, 2011)

*Quick and dirty way to check for bad Crank sensor*

Rule of thumb: Bad crank sensor = No spark, no fuel
1. If you have fuel and no spark and have been cranking for a while take out your dipstick and smell for gasoline in the oil. If you cannot smell it then there's no fuel coming from the injectors.
2. Check for spark, no spark? Hmmmm
3. Does your tach move while cranking? No? 
Then your crank signal is missing, very likely your crank sensor but it wouldn't hurt doing all this diagnostic stuff that everyone posted :thumbup:


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## DrDiesel1 (Jul 10, 2011)

ProjekBomb said:


> Ok thanx guys for the info..I will take a look at this stuff Tom b4 wrk and post up what I find. The only ques is how would I check for spark and fuel pressure.



Well, you've coined the key word here: *"Guess"* Guessing and spending thousands of dollars on unneeded parts and wasted labor time , is :screwy:

To check for spark, you need a good adjustable spark tester. They cost about 10 bucks for a good one. You can check for fuel pressure and fuel volume, with a fuel pressure gauge kit. They run about 175 bucks or less. You also want to get a test light, so you can test for power, ground, continuity and other voltage signals. You'll need to verify injector driver signal and the test light, can work for that too. A good test light will cost you about 70 bucks, or you can get a better tool called a Power Probe III for under 100 bucks. All these tools are less than what you've spent dollar wise guessing what to replace. Plus the labor involved was a lot of unnecessary work. They both add up to a major waste of time and money. It amazes me how much someone is willing to spend on guess work, but won't spend less on a few good tools or pay to have someone qualified properly diagnose it :screwy:

Here's the Power Probe III and, I recommend this over a test light. http://www.amazon.com/Power-Probe-U...U8MK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324709458&sr=8-1


Here's one of a hundred fuel pressure test kits http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-3386..._6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1324709514&sr=1-6

Here's a great little spark tester http://www.amazon.com/Thexton-404-A...utomotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1324709611&sr=1-1-spell


So for around 225 bucks, you have some diagnostic tools to help pin point your problem :wave:
Plus their reusable, for the next problem. If you're interested in DIY automotive repairs, you need some tools so you're not wasting so much time and money on unneeded parts and repairs. eace:

OK, I'll get of my soapbox now. I just hope this little waste of time and money has been educational, on what *NOT* to do, the next time


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

And the relevance of answering posts from a year ago is why with no auto-scan?

To top it off, its just bad advice with last post.

Before recommending tools people can hurt themselves with, you should start with the repair manual. Daaaaah!! and the VCDS tool itself, which this forum is for.

You can use the block values in VCDS to detect crank rpm directly, and even log the data for disruption. How's that for quick and not dirty?

Many people here have no idea what they are doing!
Safety first!

Merry Xmas!


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## DrDiesel1 (Jul 10, 2011)

[email protected] Parts said:


> And the relevance of answering posts from a year ago is why with no auto-scan?
> 
> To top it off, its just bad advice with last post.
> 
> ...



Hahahahha! Darwinism


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## XxDaBiZZxX (Nov 7, 2011)

*Yuuup*

After looking at all of these problems I think I might be selling my VW... I am having the same problem..

My car will start and run fine, every time it is cold it wont start the first three times or so then it'll 

start spiting and sputtering , finally it will start but cut out a few times before it runs fine when its 

warmed up like nothing ever happened. I have an 02 Jetta 1.8T Chipped and all the good bolt on 

Mods, I have been doing my homework on this issue and its not looking to good...What are the line 

of steps that I should do first to take care of this common issue?? ooohhh boi!!!


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## DrDiesel1 (Jul 10, 2011)

XxDaBiZZxX said:


> After looking at all of these problems I think I might be selling my VW... I am having the same problem..
> 
> My car will start and run fine, every time it is cold it wont start the first three times or so then it'll
> 
> ...


IMO. The first thing, I would do.

1. Remove all aftermarket modifications. Run it and see how it reacts.
This way, you'll know if it's an actual problem with the car or the work done to it. If it clears up the problem(s), then you can add each modification back one at a time to verify what's causing it from your modification(s).

If the problem remains, then you can start with the basics. I would check the ECT, IAC, MAF, FPR and fuel pressure.
It difficult to know what the cause is on a modified setup due to the possibility of data corruption from the modifications. This is why you start by pulling it all, to verify if it's the cause. eace:

I've had interface tuner boxes cause all kinds of crazy stuff. Some have been related to ground issue's causing erratic signals between the PCM and the vehicles control systems. Electronic gremlins are best handled by isolation. Removing the unknown variables is always the first step :wave:


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