# **The 1st C2 MKIV VR6T**



## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

Well after a few months of waiting the car is finally done and running perfect. I want to thank Jeff and Chris from C2 Motorsports, Jamie and Pete from Sleepers Performance in Hamden, CT (203-288-2110) would did a perfect job with the build, Jon (DJMoney6916v) from C.B Foreign Cars, Rippinralf for a sweet deal on the turbo, my family and last but not least my girlfriend Courtney for putting up with all of this.
Specs on the Car:
T4 60-1 with .81 Turbine Housing
C2 Quickflow Intake Manifold
C2 8:5:1 Head Gasket
C2 4" MAF Housing
42# Bosch Green Top Injectors
Arp Rod Bolts
Arp Head Studs
ATP Exhaust Manifold
3" Downpipe
3" Magnaflow Cat
3" Custom Exhaust with Borla XR-1 Muffler (hidden tip)
Peloquin LSD
Spec Stage 3 Clutch
Autotech Lightweight Flywheel
VF Engineering Motor Mounts

Numbers:
After driving back 4 hours from Connecticut we went right on the dyno (without a cool down time) and pulled
*360 whp 358 trq at 16 psi*
*376 whp 376 trq at 17 psi*
Pics:
Build Team
From left to right Mr. Atwood, Pete and Jamie from Sleepers Performance








































_Modified by tekstepvr6 at 12:01 PM 7-19-2005_


_Modified by tekstepvr6 at 2:02 PM 7-19-2005_


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: **The 1st C2 MKIV VR6T** (tekstepvr6)*

very nice. and good #'s too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: **The 1st C2 MKIV VR6T** (turboit)*

Nice specs, nice number.


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## VR6T 20 PSI (Oct 27, 2003)

so how is the driveability and what rpm do you see full boost


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## BigDaddyCW (Apr 4, 2000)

I saw the car and spoke to Jeff over the weekend. 
Awesome car and even better being the first!


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (BigDaddyCW)*

looks very nice, they did an excellent job on the install.


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## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: (BigDaddyCW)*

Very sweet! Almost makes me want a MKIV.....almost.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*C2Motorsports MKIV Debut*

I want to thank Brian for believing in the build team, and allowing us to work on a "one-of-a-kind" project for C2Motorsports. Seeing the car in our booth at the show, one could really understand the time and effort that went into this beautiful car. C2 is very pleased with the MKIV software that we developed for this car, and look forward to making some evolutionary steps in the coming weeks to bring the full public-release version to market. Considering that the car was tuned, driven 4 hours, and then put on the dyno.....we are very confident in our ability to provide the MKIV FI users with C2Motorsports software.
The professionals over at Sleepers Performance did an incredible job with the install, with the utmost attention to detail. If anyone in the CT area is in need of professional work, please do not hesitate to contact them. Sleepers Performance is a Preferred Authorized C2Motorsports Dealer/Installer (if you saw this car, you will know why).
Chris
C2


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (VR6T 20 PSI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6T 20 PSI* »_so how is the driveability and what rpm do you see full boost


It drives just like a stock car, no check engine lights or hiccups at all. The "fun" begins at around 3000rpm and full boost is seen around 4600rpm.


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## Gtibunny20v (May 19, 2005)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*

Very nice numbers. Got the dyno chart w/ a/f?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (Gtibunny20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gtibunny20v* »_Very nice numbers. Got the dyno chart w/ a/f?

The dyno chart was in the window at waterfest but got wet on the way home from the track.







The A/F is a perfect 12:1 across the rpm range when in boost. I'm going to go to the dyno in a few weeks and I'll post the chart when I return.


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## Jettin2Class (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_It drives just like a stock car, no check engine lights or hiccups at all. The "fun" begins at around 3000rpm and full boost is seen around 4600rpm.

Hmmm...wonder how they got O2 control for your car so you don't have to unplug the 02's and get a CEL. Still waiting for that for Mk 3 OBD 2 cars...


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## Fugee (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (Jettin2ClassVR6)*

*Awesome*...Im interested in one too


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (Jettin2ClassVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettin2ClassVR6* »_
Hmmm...wonder how they got O2 control for your car so you don't have to unplug the 02's and get a CEL. Still waiting for that for Mk 3 OBD 2 cars...









Our new MKIV software is not only flash load, but for the DBW, as well as CEL compliant.
C2


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## Fugee (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
Our new MKIV software is not only flash load, but for the DBW, as *well as CEL compliant.*C2

Thats what I wanna hear http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Gtibunny20v (May 19, 2005)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
The A/F is a perfect 12:1 across the rpm range when in boost. 


I expect no less from Jeff's tuning. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to him for getting the car to make power, drive smooth and no CEL's. 
I cant wait until his mk3 2l chip is finalized.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Jettin2ClassVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettin2ClassVR6* »_
Hmmm...wonder how they got O2 control for your car so you don't have to unplug the 02's and get a CEL. 

Mk4 cars have a wideband o2 sensor, where the mk3 vr6
has a narrowband sensor.
~so? you say.... The narrowband can only 'see' stoich. ~14.7
afr. So when in use the ecu can trim to ONLY 14.7afr.
The wideband can be used to run ~any afr you wish... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

-Jeff


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

Congrats Brian!!!
I'm right around the corner from you so give me a shout next time you are coming through...

Later,


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Will do Nate, it was nice meeting you at Waterfest. I can't wait to see your car once its up and running again. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fvdub00 (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: **The 1st C2 MKIV VR6T** (tekstepvr6)*

looks good in person http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Frank


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## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: **The 1st C2 MKIV VR6T** (fvdub00)*

I heard a 24V VR6 T runs well on a 12V VR6 C2 Turbo ECU also


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Looks good, nice job guys


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: (Jettin2ClassVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettin2ClassVR6* »_Hmmm...wonder how they got O2 control for your car so you don't have to unplug the 02's and get a CEL. Still waiting for that for Mk 3 OBD 2 cars...









First you disasemble the code and find the O2 sensor loop,then you cut and paste the 1.8t code onto the VR file.Sounds easy huh?


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: **The 1st C2 MKIV VR6T** (tekstepvr6)*

Very nicely done...
You can tell the mentality of people from their engine compartments I think and this thing is just sweetly laid out... my kudos! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Awesome! 
So that is what the elusive Jeff from C2 looks like.








And also, that is what kind of power is possible from an "in-car" tune...hum, maybe I need to get out to CT...








Ryan


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## SPOOLINGVR (Jul 10, 2005)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

as always http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to c2motorsports...


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## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_Our new MKIV software is not only flash load, but for the DBW, as well as CEL compliant.
C2

since the software will be flash loaded will it be able to un flash for emission purposes?


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (StreetRyda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StreetRyda* »_
since the software will be flash loaded will it be able to un flash for emission purposes?

Why would you want to unflash it? It has been engineered to offer the best running conditions, no CELs, and when tested, will pass with flying colors http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
But in answer to your Question: "if you would like to have it unflashed, and then reflashed, C2Motorsports can do this"
Chris
C2


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

damn didnt kno you lived so close... well have to set up some highway puull haha


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## gti_driver5 (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: **The 1st C2 MKIV VR6T** (tekstepvr6)*

The car looks great. Awesome numbers too. Nice work C2!


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## VWJETTAVR67 (Jul 17, 2003)

*Re: **The 1st C2 MKIV VR6T** (gti_driver5)*

car looks amazing finally another MKIVvr6 out there and one that may finally solve all our issuses the car looked amazing and c2 you guys where awasome and i cant wait for your software to be ready... eip will having nothing on you cause there chip sucks ass


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6 Mole* »_damn didnt kno you lived so close... well have to set up some highway puull haha









Well, now that I've seen yours and Brians cars putting out serious power you know I'm turning the boost all the way up once I get this thing back together







.
So the three of us will have to get together for sure


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Well, now that I've seen yours and Brians cars putting out serious power you know I'm turning the boost all the way up once I get this thing back together







.
So the three of us will have to get together for sure










I'm in Nate, name the time and place. BTW did you step up to a 3" exhaust yet? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
I'm in Nate, name the time and place. BTW did you step up to a 3" exhaust yet? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Not yet, will be having the guys up at Jeff's (c2's) shop fabricate me one. First thing I do after getting my motor back in and running.


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Not yet, will be having the guys up at Jeff's (c2's) shop fabricate me one. First thing I do after getting my motor back in and running.

my 3inch exhaust cost me 38$







5 foot long pipe with a hanger and a flange haha. exits at the rear axle though. Also another 115$ for the borla XR-1 race muffler. good stuff


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I still have 4' of pipe left over up there when they fabed my exhaust. Maybe they could use that?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6 Mole* »_
my 3inch exhaust cost me 38$







5 foot long pipe with a hanger and a flange haha. exits at the rear axle though. Also another 115$ for the borla XR-1 race muffler. good stuff

Haha I got the same muffler. Very nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
The wideband can be used to run ~any afr you wish... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

-Jeff

Just plug in the target A/F and let the ECU do the work? Or do you have to get close by tuning the injector pulse width and input a target A/F to let the ECU do the fine tuning?
I didn't know the VR6's had WbO2s. I knew the 1.8Ts did. Awesome you guys have done up the DBW ECUs. Going to do the 1.8Ts? We finallly have a good software option for bigger turbos/injectors/MAFs (Unitronic).


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_
Just plug in the target A/F and let the ECU do the work? Or do you have to get close by tuning the injector pulse width and input a target A/F to let the ECU do the fine tuning?
I didn't know the VR6's had WbO2s. I knew the 1.8Ts did. Awesome you guys have done up the DBW ECUs. Going to do the 1.8Ts? We finallly have a good software option for bigger turbos/injectors/MAFs (Unitronic).

You have to tune the car 1st, but the wideband keeps me
from fighting the ecu when under boost.
As always:
Just waitng to get an Mk4 1.8T 'in the shop'....
We're lining up one project for the ~winter. 1.8T, 'real' big turbo,
~720's, 4 inch MAF housing.
Is there demand for ~BIG 1.8T capability? Think ~400whp.
(enough to break the stock motor)

-Jeff


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

I would say demand for a 400whp would be low. In the long run it would require a built motor, and a pretty late spool. I think there is strong demand for 300whp software that runs on 440s or 550s and whatever MAF. People seem to run the VR6 MAF, haven't seen anyone tune for the S4 (3" ID) ones. I think only one person has gotten it "right" and will sell the software separately (independent from a kit). 
If you want to tune a 1.8T, post up in the 1.8T forum. I guarantee there is someone local to you that will offer up their car. We need another option.
Do you do IMMO defeats and things like turning off the cat efficiency codes? Seems to be popular with the 1.8T crowd. Getting IMMO key codes is a PITA now (VW has changed their policy on releasing these(.


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## Hooftie (Nov 26, 2004)

*Re: (mj6234)*

Demand is high here for a big turbo 1.8T. Would love to be that project car at C2. Gimme 400+ whp.


_Modified by Hooftie at 11:37 PM 7-21-2005_


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (Hooftie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hooftie* »_Demand is high here for a big turbo 1.8T. Would love to be that project car at C2. Gimme 400+ whp.

_Modified by Hooftie at 11:37 PM 7-21-2005_


C2Motorsports will be answering the public's need for FI software. Platforms will include, but NOT be limited to: 1.8t, VR6 12v, VR6 24v, and R32.
Along with FI software, we will also be offering several other comprehensive program levels. These levels will begin and include NA programming....and go through BIG TURBO programs.
Look for C2 to bring quite a few Software Packages to the market in the coming year, as well as Super Charger and Turbo Kits for each VW platform.

C2Motorsports


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## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

any updates on the availability?


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## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Mk4 cars have a wideband o2 sensor, where the mk3 vr6
has a narrowband sensor.
~so? you say.... The narrowband can only 'see' stoich. ~14.7
afr. So when in use the ecu can trim to ONLY 14.7afr.
The wideband can be used to run ~any afr you wish... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

-Jeff

This might be a stupid question but Since the Mark 4's cars have wideband o2 sensors is there anyway i can be able to tap into it so i can read it?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (StreetRyda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *StreetRyda* »_
This might be a stupid question but Since the Mark 4's cars have wideband o2 sensors is there anyway i can be able to tap into it so i can read it? 

Nope....
The sensor output is current, not ~volts...
so if you 'tap' into the signal you'll FUBAR the signal.
Bad readngs for you,
Bad reading for the ecu = ecu will make changes. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

-Jeff


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## Mike Ngo (Sep 7, 2002)

*Re: (StreetRyda)*

very nice


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## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
Nope....
The sensor output is current, not ~volts...
so if you 'tap' into the signal you'll FUBAR the signal.
Bad readngs for you,
Bad reading for the ecu = ecu will make changes. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

-Jeff

Not necessarily, if the output is from 0 to 20mA or 5 to 20mA, you can put a 250ohm (minimum 1% tolerance) resistance in series between the signal line, and you will have a output from 0 to 5V or 1 to 5V respectively, over the resistance. (You will need a high impedance ‘reader’ like a electronic voltmeter , to measure the signal)
Cause the output is current, the sensor will keep the current within the same proportion, even with the additional resistor, as long as the impedance doesn’t become to high.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (MarcoVR6SC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MarcoVR6SC* »_
Cause the output is current, the sensor will keep the current within the same proportion, even with the additional resistor, as long as the impedance doesn’t become to high.










The o2 sensor itself does not have acitve circuitry to maintan the
current in the manner you speak of.
This is why the sensor is ~cheaqp and the controller is $expensive.
The current is generated by oxygen interaction with the element itself.
The sensor contans a 'calibration' resistor in the connector.
add/subtract ~any resistance you will change this circuit and thus the output curve....
The actual current we are talking about here is micro-amps.
-Jeff



_Modified by Jefnes3 at 2:24 PM 8-30-2005_


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