# my 2.0T FSI's intake valves



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

Ok, so I had a local company pull my intake manifold and scrub my valves for me... i was thinking it was going to be bad, but not TOO bad as ive seafoamed my engine at least 12 times since i bought it in Jan of 09... i was wrong...
remember, this is with 60,000 miles with a stock PCV, and 8,000 with a VTA setup and copious amounts of seafoam and valve cleaner. Oh yeah, and i do "Italian Tune Ups" all the time... like driving from Orlando, FL to Atlanta, GA going hella fast and running way over 3k rpms the entire time... for 7 or 8 hours... with seafoam before, then again when i was there, and again after i got back...
56k, gtfo. lol
before








































































after:








































they were wiped out a bit more before everything was put back together, but they forgot to take pics which is no biggie at all.
they drove the car while i was in class tonight and said that it was a very noticeable difference in terms of how the engine runs and pulls.
btw, it was only $300 for a complete pull, clean, and re-install, out the door.


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## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: my 2.0T FSI's intake valves (Krieger)*


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Uh that's the "after"? That looks horrible.
Dave


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

thats not as bad as cars i have seen around here but yeah not great either. Good to see the car is running better and you can't beat the price! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

again, they were wiped out even more, but no pics were taken as they were putting the mani back on after.
thanks for reading though.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdotA3mike* »_thats not as bad as cars i have seen around here but yeah not great either. Good to see the car is running better and you can't beat the price! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


yeah, but think about this: i did the "italian tune ups", i red line ALL the time, plus i have seafoamed this car so much that i should own stock in the damn company. lmao.
imagine what it would be like if i hadnt done any of the stuff recommended?
crazy...


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## Eye Candy White (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: (crew219)*

This is terrible news for all of us.
Direct injection for the loss.
I remember the days of opening up a b-series Honda engine and seeing internals that looked about as good as the day you or the factory put them in.
This is very disappointing to me.
Hopefully we can come up with ways to seriously limit this build up, or we're all going to need tear down/rebuilds after 80K-100K miles.
Thanks for posting this up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm at 37K and am terrified to even look.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Eye Candy White* »_This is terrible news for all of us.
Direct injection for the loss.
I remember the days of opening up a b-series Honda engine and seeing internals that looked about as good as the day you or the factory put them in.
This is very disappointing to me.
Hopefully we can come up with ways to seriously limit this build up, or we're all going to need tear down/rebuilds after 80K-100K miles.
Thanks for posting this up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm at 37K and am terrified to even look.


seriously for 300 bucks every like 50k to 80k its not really that big of a deal. at least not IMO.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

get a VTA catch can or a recirc and water meth injection.
the sooner, the better.
btw, my K-series honda motor was the same way. every time we broke her down, she was still pristine and had ZERO wear marks or sludge anywhere. oh well, this engine has alot more potential.


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## GrayMarauder (Nov 8, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Amazing..
2.0T FSI... ****ED


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_get a VTA catch can or a recirc and water meth injection.
the sooner, the better.
btw, my K-series honda motor was the same way. every time we broke her down, she was still pristine and had ZERO wear marks or sludge anywhere. oh well, this engine has alot more potential. 


the exhaust valves i assume do not suffer advanced build up do they?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

no, id REALLY doubt that as they do not get covered in oil or dirt, plus they get SUPER hot as they feed the turbo and will heat up as pressure rises when you romp on your engine alot.


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## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

For 300 bucks, that's a sweet deal! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif How long did it take?
I doubt any catch can or meth treatment can help prevent this much though. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

yeah it will if you run a vent to atmosphere from day one.
I dropped the car off around 9 am but they didnt start working on it till after 10 or 11, and when i called at 4 PM, they were finishing up.
im picking it up tomorrow as they are currently installing the SS clutch line from USP motorsports (it is a quality piece) and flushing my system with Amsoil RACE 600 brake fluid.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_yeah it will if you run a vent to atmosphere from day one.
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Unfortunately so many people here only caught onto this 2-3 years into ownership.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_yeah it will if you run a vent to atmosphere from day one.

Nope, the valve stems still weep oil onto the valves.


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## dan the welder (Mar 7, 2006)

*Re: my 2.0T FSI's intake valves (Krieger)*

i thought i was ahead with all the seafoam/italian tune-ups that i do. this really bums me out. im gonna pull my intake manifold now to look. (i heard its a bitch)


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Nope, the valve stems still weep oil onto the valves. 


honestly, even if they do, its not going to be enough to match what the PCV system did in 60k miles... and since im going WM, its no biggie anyways...
now that everything is nice and clean, im sure that when i seafoam, anything "weeped" onto the valves will get washed off, or at least it will be kept at bay.


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## rkmoore (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: my 2.0T FSI's intake valves (Krieger)*

WOW!! 300 bucks? that's a sweet deal if you're only gonna do it every 50,000 miles or so. one can of seafoam is about $12
at 100,000 miles if you seafoamed every 3,500 with your oil changes
that would add up to be about $350 plus cost of catch can, $250-$300 and you see basically no results, looks like the pull and clean method is alot more cost effective. ill give it a try. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mk6_myke (Jul 16, 2009)

*Re: my 2.0T FSI's intake valves (rkmoore)*

gr8 deal dude! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif was this axis?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_
honestly, even if they do, its not going to be enough to match what the PCV system did in 60k miles... and since im going WM, its no biggie anyways...
now that everything is nice and clean, im sure that when i seafoam, anything "weeped" onto the valves will get washed off, or at least it will be kept at bay.

Did you see my intake valves with about 22k on them since their last thorough cleaning? Those deposits were pretty much all due to valve stem weep. 
Dave


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## rkmoore (Dec 14, 2009)

im just curious, what exactly is the texture of these deposits? like are they hard like rocks? or crusty? lol.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Did you see my intake valves with about 22k on them since their last thorough cleaning? Those deposits were pretty much all due to valve stem weep. 
Dave


do you run a catch can dave?


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdotA3mike* »_
do you run a catch can dave? 

used to, not anymore


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
used to, not anymore


what do you run the stock system?


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## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

i think maybe the valve step weeping negates any purpose of running a catch can...you might be prolonging cleaning the valves...but you will still have to....


_Modified by vliou at 10:11 PM 2-23-2010_


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## seattheodore (May 5, 2009)

*Re: my 2.0T FSI's intake valves (Krieger)*

Nice job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
eventually everyone of us will have to clean them








What type of oil do you use 5-30 or 5-40 ? 502 or 504 ?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubman6* »_gr8 deal dude! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif was this axis?


nope, Ivan was busy with a k04 build so i went to that new shop, Performance Race Solutions. Great guys!
idk about the consistency as i did not do them, but ill ask the guys who did it.
i have run alot of oils. Pentosin 5W-40, Castrol 5W-40, and now Mobile 1 5-W40 TD with a bit of 0w-40 or 5w-30 high mileage mixed in.
ill be running my same VTA setup (im actually thinking of running a small vacuum pump to it to draw out the gasses even faster, but im not sure how to approach this...), and probably run water/meth injection down the road...
if i really have to, ill pay another $300 in 60,000 miles... its really not that big of a deal. idk why some people think its such a huge deal...


_Modified by Krieger at 6:04 AM 2-24-2010_


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## SDM (Aug 9, 2007)

I hope that in the future the factory engineers of the DI design can implement a long-term solution to this undeniable problem. We tend to apologize for this design flaw by saying that it's really not that bad etc....but this is ridiculous for a 2007+ 'modern' internal combustion engine.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

no doubt its horrible for a modern engine, but this engine is still one of the first of its kind and the kinks are still getting worked out (i hope).
im just saying its not a huge deal to have the mani pulled every 60,000 miles... basically, i wont need to do it again till after 120,000 miles. then again at 180,000 miles... Ill just consider it as routine maintenance.


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## SDM (Aug 9, 2007)

When VW see's loyalty to the brand as demonstrated on this forum I hope they are developing a solution as we speak, they owe it to the folks. I also cut them slack all the time, I'm on my third cam-follower now, but this has been the most fun vehicle I have owned in 20 years


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_if i really have to, ill pay another $300 in 60,000 miles... its really not that big of a deal. idk why some people think its such a huge deal...

You're right...$300 every 60k miles is not going to cause anyone to lose sleep. However, that price is really unrealistic for most of us. You said it took them roughly 6 hours (10am to 4pm)...thus, at my local shop, that's almost $500 (and they're relatively cheap, too @ $75/hr) which is a bit steep for a *non-scheduled* maintenance item.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_
You're right...$300 every 60k miles is not going to cause anyone to lose sleep. However, that price is really unrealistic for most of us. You said it took them roughly 6 hours (10am to 4pm)...thus, at my local shop, that's almost $500 (and they're relatively cheap, too @ $75/hr) which is a bit steep for a *non-scheduled* maintenance item. 

I agree. For the general population it will probably be even worse. I wonder what the book says for number of hours at an Audi dealership. Probably closer to 8 hours, then at $100-$110 an hour, plus extras, tax, etc. and you are probably looking at a $1000. If you take it to a shop that has never done it before it will also take longer or they will at least charge more hours. 
The average person buying a VW or Audi and getting the work done at the dealership probably won't look at this too positively. Most will wonder why their engine needs to be taken apart for cleaning at 60k miles. At this point the direct injection 2.0T has been out for about 5 years (I think Europe got it before we did) and I haven't seen any great solutions to the problem.


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## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

at 300$ it is almost worth it for my to drive down there vrom va to get this done.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

just got home... OMG is it different.
she sounds different, pulls harder and feels like she has been on a steroid diet and is addicted to crack. a beast.
they drove my car around the shop and the 4 or 5 guys that were outside talking with me all just stopped and stared as it drove by. mouths hung open... even me... im in love all over again... lmao. sexiest exhaust note ever, intake is much louder, boost builds insanely quick...


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## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*

I love how our cars choke themselves to death. Nice job though!


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## idoke1 (Feb 22, 2009)

*Re: my 2.0T FSI's intake valves (Krieger)*

I remember cleaning my valves. It actually looked worst than your before pics. I took of the head and clean the whole chamber and valve ports. It was nice and clean when I installed it back in. And indeed, the engine did not shake, my mpg got around 28-30 (before 21-25) and the engine was way stronger than before. It made a big difference.


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## portishead (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: my 2.0T FSI's intake valves (idoke1)*

Where is a good place to take the ride for a nice valve cleaning?


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *vliou* »_i think maybe the valve step weeping negates any purpose of running a catch can...you might be prolonging cleaning the valves...but you will still have to....



yes but it helps allot have you seen cars with stock PCV systems? holy crap thats 10X worse then krieger's car was.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: my 2.0T FSI's intake valves (Krieger)*

Excellent job on pics! That price is amazing. I wish shops were that cheap around here. 
Money well spent! Very interesting about the MPG increase. Depending on how long that increase lasts, that would about pay for the cleaning service.
How much of the valve problem do you think was already there when you bought the car (i.e. pre-seafoaming)? How many miles were on it when you bought it? 


_Modified by saaber2 at 1:11 PM 2-24-2010_


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## Malaco0219 (Mar 18, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdotA3mike* »_
seriously for 300 bucks every like 50k to 80k its not really that big of a deal. at least not IMO. 

independent charges 518 for this service.
I think that's pretty good for once ever 120k km


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## rick89 (Dec 2, 2008)

looks like ill have to get this done at h2 sometime during this year as im at 104k km.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Malaco0219* »_
independent charges 518 for this service.
I think that's pretty good for once ever 120k km



i am going to talk to H2 and see if they would offer this for a better price, maybe i will couple it with a timing belt change at 110 - 120k KM


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

guys you think 300 dlls is cheap if you knew what we pay here in mexico for this job you would die jejeje
i paid 100 dlls for this job, done by a guy thats awesome, he owns a 400whp mk1 rabbit!
pretty expensive in the states!!


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_Excellent job on pics! That price is amazing. I wish shops were that cheap around here. 
Money well spent! Very interesting about the MPG increase. Depending on how long that increase lasts, that would about pay for the cleaning service.
How much of the valve problem do you think was already there when you bought the car (i.e. pre-seafoaming)? How many miles were on it when you bought it? 


car had about 57,000 miles on it, but the previous owner had alot of mods on it when he sold it, so i ASSUME he took good care of this engine... but who knows?
yeah, they said that this was an insanely hard task and next time it would run me in the 400-500 range or so. i dont blame them.
btw, im gonna make a video of her running tomorrow. She sounds totally different and drives like a bat out of hell.


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## Malaco0219 (Mar 18, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdotA3mike* »_
i am going to talk to H2 and see if they would offer this for a better price, maybe i will couple it with a timing belt change at 110 - 120k KM 

keep me int he loop I'm interested as well. he's the only person i asked so far.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*

My impression is that "mild" treatment options such as seafoaming, italian tuneups (and maybe even more intense inductions services such as BG indution machine) can affect recently accumulated "soft" deposits but does little with the baked on older deposits. But really that is just an impression as I haven't pulled off the manifold to see. 
Hard to say how much the seafoaming etc. helped prevent further deposits from accumulating given that lots of deposits were likely already present at 57k.
But one thing your pictures show clearly is that seafoaming and italian tuneups are not sufficient to remove existing deposits. Makes me wonder if the more expensive induction services would have similar results when used on baked-on older deposits.?
We could learn a lot more about what works if it wasn't such a big job to remove manifold and check I think.


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## jj87 (Jul 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]tronic.ca* »_guys you think 300 dlls is cheap if you knew what we pay here in mexico for this job you would die jejeje
i paid 100 dlls for this job, done by a guy thats awesome, he owns a 400whp mk1 rabbit!
pretty expensive in the states!!

Stay in Mexico then!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_guys you think 300 dlls is cheap if you knew what we pay here in mexico for this job you would die jejeje
i paid 100 dlls for this job, done by a guy thats awesome, he owns a 400whp mk1 rabbit!
pretty expensive in the states!!

YOU PAID 100 $ FOR THIS JOB !!!! ??
OMG WHAT A RIP OFF!!!















Here in Greece things are so much cheaper....
I paid NOTHING since i did it by myself....


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

ok, so i changed out my coil packs for the red ones from [email protected], plus put in a brand new front O2 (old one was BAD.), and then seafoamed on top of it all...
car feels brand new.
i plan on dynoing her in the next week or two.


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
We could learn a lot more about what works if it wasn't such a big job to remove manifold and check I think.


Boroscope via the AIT sensor port will show you whats going on without removing the intake, or remove the TB and boroscope


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_ok, so i changed out my coil packs for the red ones from [email protected], plus put in a brand new front O2 (old one was BAD.), and then seafoamed on top of it all...
car feels brand new.
i plan on dynoing her in the next week or two.

Change the plugs if its been a while.
I have seen bad plugs burn up coil packs also FYI







Bob.G


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## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (jj87)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jj87* »_
Stay in Mexico then!

Stay in the dirty south. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ajz9415 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*

I am at 80k I think it is time to clean mine


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

they are only 5k miles old. i was going to run stock heat range, but now i think im liking my 1 heat range colder.
i was REALLY surprised how easy it was to change out my O2... i literally used a wrench, some PB blaster and barely had to pull at all to get it to break loose. I then unscrewed it with my hand and it all took me less than 10 minutes, even with removing my intake and heatshield.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (Krieger)*

Damn 60K miles on a Factory PCV?
I installed my CatchCan @ 18K miles & I'm @ 30K miles today. It catches alotta gunk, esp. in the winter.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

Krieger said:


> just got home... OMG is it different.
> she sounds different, pulls harder and feels like she has been on a steroid diet and is addicted to crack. a beast.
> they drove my car around the shop and the 4 or 5 guys that were outside talking with me all just stopped and stared as it drove by. mouths hung open... even me... im in love all over again... lmao. sexiest exhaust note ever, intake is much louder, boost builds insanely quick...


im scared to see my valves im at 89k ughh. this weekend i think ill be diving into that and a timing belt.


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