# 02M Clutch Options / Race-Shop PP



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Race-Shop PP.*

Hi Guys, 
Does anyone know if Race-Shop makes one of these unbreakable PPs for the 02M. I am putting together a list of stuff I need to get for my o2m swap and I'm kind of stuck on picking a clutch.

Spec 3+ seems like it will fit my needs BUT - I've heard of the exploding PPs and I really don't want to deal with that, however, if I don't find another option - I'll take my chances because I do know people running this setup with no issues. 

Needs in the setup:
Holding capacity of 500 wtq. 
Streetable/*Daily Driveable*

So my 2 questions are:
1: Does Race-Shop have 02M Setups with their PP? 
2: What else would you suggest besides the Spec 3+ setup?


_Modified by herbehop at 12:04 PM 1-30-2007_


----------



## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (herbehop)*

i just saw a buddy blow up a clutch and flywheel. it sucked. 
(post edited for lack of correct information)
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by mikemcnair at 10:04 AM 2-1-2007_


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (mikemcnair)*

I hate most of every one of the clutch makers.
BUT ACT,SPEC,CLUTCHMASTERS;UNORTODOX are just f!¤#" modified SACHs´s plates.
No joke change a rivet and call it heavy duty.

And your flywheel is a "clutchmaster/unothodox".
So offset must be correct and ill guess spec will tell ya its your fault.

We recived the first clutches for V6 24v02M ...no joke in early 2001 and they had incorrect offset.
We orderd a new clutch when that big USbrand killed it self and guess what ......WE RECIVED exactlly the same pressureplate and flywheel from another company calling it their own with hundreds of hundreds of hours of R&D


----------



## MKippen (Nov 6, 2000)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. ([email protected])*

What about ClutchNet?? i have had good experience with their stuff for the O2A


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (theflygtiguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theflygtiguy* »_What about ClutchNet?? i have had good experience with their stuff for the O2A

I have actually been looking into them most recently, have seen some good feedback from people using their stuff... 
Performance-Cafe has a ClutchNet package for the 02M, however, it says it only holds ~400. I'm looking for just a little more so I have room to expand.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

foffa...
what are you currently running in your car?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Sent you a PM with Joe's info. His PP's are units that are made by Clutchnet that are modified to hold the toughest of launches. He was doing them himself for a while for R&D but I believe they're all 'built' at Clutchnet now. I don't think the normal off the shelf unit is the same one you get through Joe, however.
That being said I only know of 02A/J ones, but I'm sure ClutchNet could apply those modifications to an O2M one if it isn't too different. 
The issues with all the PP's we went through wasn't clamping force, it was the radial stresses of launching a 2500lb all motor car at 6500rpm and 23-24.5" slicks


----------



## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

also, i would look into whatever schimmel uses. he has made some of the fastest VR's in the world, he must know something about chutches. 
http://www.spturbo.com
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (mikemcnair)*

i use spec stage 3+ custom twin difragm and billet center.
Its still ok but the rivets were to high and grinded my gearbox case out.

ALL PP centers are sachs and "ALL" centers for the disc are sachs.
Companies just change small parts and they pretty much all sucks http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

So nexy time ill go sachs sport PP and sinter again


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

look into South Bend clutches. can get it cryo treated for like an extra $50 as well....


----------



## Geoff Rood (Apr 30, 2001)

1, clutches should technically be rated in holding torque, not horsepower. Clutches hold torque not horsepower.
2. 500 lbft and "daily driving" don't go together in the world of single plate clutches. You will either have to trade incredible increases in pedal weight, or non-slipping clutch materials. Usually both.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (Geoff Rood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoff Rood* »_
2. 500 lbft and "daily driving" don't go together in the world of single plate clutches. You will either have to trade incredible increases in pedal weight, or non-slipping clutch materials. Usually both.

that is the reason the spec 3+ is appealing. Rated to hold 590wtq and from what I hear- it is easily streetable. 
question goes back to the PP - will it hold or not- For what I want in a clutch its perfect, however I don't want to drop 800 bucks on a clutch that may not hold up.


----------



## ShaggyVR6 (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: (herbehop)*

i run the spec stg3+ looks great i could let u drive it next time u goto sleepers to see how u think it feels


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (ShaggyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggyVR6* »_i run the spec stg3+ looks great i could let u drive it next time u goto sleepers to see how u think it feels

Wait till it starts creaking at you. Fun fun fun.


----------



## Ghetto-8v (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (herbehop)*

Go with Clutchnet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (ShaggyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggyVR6* »_i run the spec stg3+ looks great i could let u drive it next time u goto sleepers to see how u think it feels

thanks Jon
how many miles have you put on the 6speed since jamie threw it in there?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Cab...
what clutch are you running? 
edit: 
just saw you run a Sachs sport clutch... How does that hold up when you are running 20psi? How is it with quick shifts? 


_Modified by herbehop at 9:11 AM 1-31-2007_


----------



## ShaggyVR6 (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: (herbehop)*

I think i put like 20k since the 6 speed but as u know 1 of my miles count for like 3 or 4 of someone elses cause i don;t do light miles


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_Rated to hold 590wtq and from what I hear- it is easily streetable. 


I've seen more of the Spec's break at a launch then anything else. Sure it'll hold a stead state 590wtq on the road, but what happens when you put 200lbft through it with a drivetrain that won't give? Sure they won't slip at 590wtq but when you try and put it down does it break?


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

Was never a fan of spec clutches, which is why i had mentioned the south bend clutches, thats what i was looking at for my 02m. Friends never had good luck with spec so i never bothered. They either began to slip, or they broke.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
I've seen more of the Spec's break at a launch then anything else. Sure it'll hold a stead state 590wtq on the road, but what happens when you put 200lbft through it with a drivetrain that won't give? Sure they won't slip at 590wtq but when you try and put it down does it break?



Mine is a fn 1000$ version and i can promise if anyone is gonna break a stg 3+ with all option its gonna be me.








And im gonna give that company a kick in the nuts on every page on the internet until im satesfied IF they dont give me a new one asap.
IF disaster strikes







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_Was never a fan of spec clutches, which is why i had mentioned the south bend clutches, thats what i was looking at for my 02m. Friends never had good luck with spec so i never bothered. They either began to slip, or they broke.

Do you know of anyone that has launched the southbends hard... (slicks)


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (ShaggyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggyVR6* »_I think i put like 20k since the 6 speed but as u know 1 of my miles count for like 3 or 4 of someone elses cause i don;t do light miles
















Yea- I know how hard you drive your car- thats the only reason the spec is still in the mix. I don't know anyone that drives harder actually. 
Thing is- if you put slicks on - what is going to happen...
I want to be able to make an investment that will last me at least two years of heavy abuse. I know the race-shop guys launch on slicks w/ the clutchnets.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Mine is a fn 1000$ version and i can promise if anyone is gonna break a stg 3+ with all option its gonna be me.








And im gonna give that company a kick in the nuts on every page on the internet until im satesfied IF they dont give me a new one asap.
IF disaster strikes







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

so this is a custom made setup then? 
I don't mind dishing out the money for a strong setup, however- buying parts twice, I do mind.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
so this is a custom made setup then? 
I don't mind dishing out the money for a strong setup, however- buying parts twice, I do mind. 

Its with all their options .
It hold mad TQ .
But i hate the company because of their way to handle quality issues.
But ive found a pick of south bend clutch
ITS A stg4 *clutchmaster *disc with a *sachs *pressure plate.
wonder what the change and charge extra for exept for the disc








http://www.dubwerks.com/projec...x.htm


----------



## cabracco85 (Apr 24, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

South bend clutch does alot of clutches for HIGH TQ diesle trucks, so those clutches they can hold alot of torque, but im not sure of the ones for vw, but i would suspect that they can hold up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_Cab...
what clutch are you running? 
edit: 
just saw you run a Sachs sport clutch... How does that hold up when you are running 20psi? How is it with quick shifts? 

_Modified by herbehop at 9:11 AM 1-31-2007_

Wow, whatever list you found was o l d... It's a Spec stage 3, and it sounds very unhealthy, and has since new.


----------



## Ted Brogan (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
Do you know of anyone that has launched the southbends hard... (slicks)


i used it on my 20th about 300whp dumping the clutch at about 6krpm

Tim18t-11.91
vdubed-12.0x
jettadude101- 13.0 (on stock turbo)
slojti-13.2 (ko4)
hetzen-12.3x
and a handful of other all using 24.5" tires


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

hmm... 
I think this is what I'll do... 
Going to get in touch with Race-Shop- see if they have a 02M solution. 
if not... 
Southbend
then spec as my last choice- 
trying to be careful here so I don't blow up my 4000+ dollar tranny investment.

Thanks for all for the advice so far guys... please do keep it coming. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## THEERY2.1 (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: (herbehop)*

This is what happens to *ACT*'s after 160 miles and only 190 WHP


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (mikemcnair)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikemcnair* »_i just saw a buddy blow up a Spec PP/FW in an A4 last week. not to try to sway your decision one way or another, just supplying mere facts to allow you to make an informed decision. 



Was that pressure plate even installed right?Never see anything like this on a longitudinal set up.


----------



## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Was that pressure plate even installed right?Never see anything like this on a longitudinal set up.


Heat it up and press the clutch in it will explode.. done it twice on my jetta and seen it countless times on longitudinal A4s (all stock turbos on the A4s)
my vote goes to southbend. They know their stuff, stand behind it and will reinforce the straps on the 02m applications.
For one of my customers they even put a new surface on his UR flywheel for free just to ensure there would be no problems with his southbend.
His spec spun on the input shaft becuase they put the wrong center on it. The teeth only engaged half way. So it worked for a few months then one day.. it just spun. Took him a long time to fight spec on it. Even when they had it back they said it wasn't possible








I gotten to the point where I now refuse to install spec clutches, since I have redone every one I have installed.
Edit:
intitial post was about race-shop, haven't used any of their products personaly but they don't sell stuff unless they know it works, so I wouldn't be afraid to use one or install anything from them.


_Modified by PD Performance at 7:50 PM 1/31/2007_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Chris - thanks for that input on the southbends. 
I like to hear good things about customer service. 
How does the pedal feel on the higher stages? 

I don't mind a little harsh engagement- I just don't want instant engagment. I used to have an rx7 that had a stage 4 clutchmaster that I drove on the street - so that pretty much baptised me for something harsh in the future










_Modified by herbehop at 12:29 AM 2-1-2007_


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

i've used the spec stage3+'s and liked them...
the one pictured by mikemcnair was NOT a spec...i know i removed that setup and put a crazy setup in it from spec in it now...
the one that was blown apart was from AWE....pic here....NOT A SPEC


----------



## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (nothingleavesstock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothingleavesstock* »_i've used the spec stage3+'s and liked them...
the one pictured by mikemcnair was NOT a spec...

i stand corrected. Josh, i thought Kev said it was , so i appologize. i will edit my post above so as to not confuse anyone. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Clutch feel is actually really good, nothing I'd be concerned with driving everyday or in traffic.
Release is also nice, not very harsh.


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (herbehop)*

SPEC has let me down, a little less than 5000 miles on it


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (KIEZERJOSE)*

but what stage was that? spec 3+ is higher hp(425hp /510 tq)
for the street.... not a "metal" punked clutch.


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (nothingleavesstock)*

That was a stage 3 kit


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (KIEZERJOSE)*

SPEC needs to get some real warranty for their ****ty products. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. (KIEZERJOSE)*

stage 3+ is new for the street setup....
i've had stg2 fail....


----------



## KIEZERJOSE (Feb 15, 2003)

*Re: Race-Shop PP. ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_SPEC needs to get some real warranty for their ****ty products. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


i agree with you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i took a big loss buying that kit. 
lesson learned


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

changed the name of the thread to reflect more of what it is... 

Here is a picture of the southbend setup- I have an email out to them with a few questions.


----------



## igotaprestent4u (Nov 2, 2002)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Here's my spec 3+/PP before i put it on last year , i have my fingers crossed that the presure plate won't take a poop on me


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (igotaprestent4u)*

If it has rivets, it can probably break!


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

just found another option...
Looks like VF has some setups that will hold some good power... 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view













_Modified by herbehop at 12:24 AM 2-2-2007_


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_just found another option...
Looks like VF has some setups that will hold some good power... 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










_Modified by herbehop at 12:24 AM 2-2-2007_

VF sells clutchmaster with OEM sachs pressureplate with one changed rivet















I got that one on the shelf .
Real hack job by clutchmasters on the pressure plate to fit bigger rivets http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
VF=clutchmaster=sachs with another disc http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (foffa2002)*


_Quote, originally posted by *foffa2002* »_VF sells clutchmaster with OEM sachs pressureplate with one changed rivet















I got that one on the shelf .
Real hack job by clutchmasters on the pressure plate to fit bigger rivets http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
VF=clutchmaster=sachs with another disc http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

positive about this? I have no clue - thats why I'm asking- I did check the clutchmaster site. but they don't off the full-faced clutches on there. But- I did find the kevlar one and I could compare that to the vf one. I can't say much about the PP - but the disc looks pretty different. 
another positive of the vf-package:
they balance the lw flywheel in someone to reduce chatter in the 02m application. Nobody else offers that kind of flywheel. 
vf:









clutchmaster:








I think I am going to go with the VF setup (I will decide at some point today). In talking to Larry (LSinLV) he holds VF in VERY high regard and *fingers crossed* IF something were to go wrong, I would feel very confident in dealing with them on a resolution due to their excellent track record in customer service. 
I'm going to think about this today and decide. 


_Modified by herbehop at 10:20 AM 2-2-2007_


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

ok you can balance a flywheel and it will be rotationally balanced. But then you throw the pressure plate on it anyways and its off. 
If you really want the assembly rotationally balanced. Bring your flywheel to a machine shop (almost any) bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel and they spin it up and make the adjustments according.
Or if you go through pp's then get the fly balanced, then bolt the pp to the flywheel and have the adjustments made just on the pp according, so if you put another pp on the fly is still balanced and only thing off is the pp again.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

re: flywheel...
In the 02Ms (dual mass flywheel) apparently vw made the whole setup balance out with the dualmass fw. 
When you remove it for a single mass, its gets very loud. VF hasn't gone into much depth about what they did to get it done, but apparently it works b/c nobody has called b/s on it and you know how quick vortex is to do that


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

Yeah forgot to mention on singly mass. But it would be a good idea to do what i had mentioned anyways on high hp cars. which i assume is your goal with the selection of clutches


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

disclaimer to Cover my rear:
Im not well versed in the clutch/pp/fw area. I've never put serious research into it until this past week or two so If I say something that is inaccurate, its because I don't know


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_Yeah forgot to mention on singly mass. But it would be a good idea to do what i had mentioned anyways on high hp cars. which i assume is your goal with the selection of clutches

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Will definitely look into this when install comes around.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
positive about this? I have no clue - thats why I'm asking- I did check the clutchmaster site. but they don't off the full-faced clutches on there. But- I did find the kevlar one and I could compare that to the vf one. I can't say much about the PP - but the disc looks pretty different. 
another positive of the vf-package:
they balance the lw flywheel in someone to reduce chatter in the 02m application. Nobody else offers that kind of flywheel. 
vf:









clutchmaster:








I think I am going to go with the VF setup (I will decide at some point today). In talking to Larry (LSinLV) he holds VF in VERY high regard and *fingers crossed* IF something were to go wrong, I would feel very confident in dealing with them on a resolution due to their excellent track record in customer service. 
I'm going to think about this today and decide. 

_Modified by herbehop at 10:20 AM 2-2-2007_


call VF and ask them...they will not deny who they use as a supplier http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
They use clutchmasters as their supplier.
Clutchmaster use sachs pressure plate with changed rivets and one small plate added.
HACK JOBB on the cut outs for the new rivets. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Unotrodox and clutchmaster share same flywheel etc


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

what clutch disc does clutchmaster use?

know any info on who supplys south bend... i would still be pretty set on them.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_call VF and ask them...they will not deny who they use as a supplier http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

You are indeed correct...
Just saw this posted in the R32 forum. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The Stage 3 is an excellent option. You now need to go through VF or your local VF dealer to get CF/Clutch Masters clutch and flywheel packages. We worked closely with Clutch Masters to to develop these exceptional clutches and are extremely happy with the results! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You will love these packages, which ever you choose!
*Each clutch and flywheel kit includes the following:*
-Custom VF clutch disc (choice of Stage 1, Stage 3 or Stage 4)
-Custom VF pressure plate
-Custom VF "whisper quiet" 13 lb. aluminum flywheel
-New OEM pressure plate and flywheel hardware
-New OEM slave cylinder
-New OEM throw-out bearing
-Flywheel torque plate
-Clutch aligment tool


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Lot of developing on that sachs OEM plate


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

So far this is my conclusion...
-If there was indeed an UBER clutch setup that never broke, we would all know about it and we would all be running it








At this point I am looking to get a little more info from VF and some reassurances in regards to the tq that the clutch will hold. Like I mentioned before, I do have faith in VF Customer service and it may come down to that in the end. 

- I have used CM in the past on my '83 RX7 didn't have any complaints up until I blew the rear









Foffa, can we change your username to *VRT Dictionary*?








Where do you find all this stuff out?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Spend to much time with my cars and to little time with my unhappy girlfriends









But one small story about the VF setup vs the Unortodoxe one.
They use same pressure plate with VF= clutchmaster plate 
Unorto used a 6 puck one.
The Unorto killed it self on a VF charged 24v in a couple of months.
Reliable sourche gave us a hint of incorrect protruding of the disc after the famus aftermarket paint+small mods on the sachs base.
BUT the VF setup claims that the problem is solved and this clutch is right now going down the Ice track on a lake in norwas as we speak on a twin turbo (GT28 sized) 24v peloq diff,22psi 24v turbo with upgraded haldex








AND it still lives.
30psi in a couple of days http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Then youll get the full review of the VF/clutchmaster setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
BUT the VF setup claims that the problem is solved and this clutch is right now going down the Ice track on a lake in norwas as we speak on a twin turbo (GT28 sized) 24v peloq diff,22psi 24v turbo with upgraded haldex








AND it still lives.
30psi in a couple of days http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Then youll get the full review of the VF/clutchmaster setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yup, I heard about this. This is DanielT right? 








my gut tells me, if its holding up in here, I should be ok-


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*









He is satesfied with the VF clutch kit so far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I wouldn't trust anything aftermarket that still has rivets IMHO.


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

looks like the VF option is the same as the eip stuff - Which is 100% garbage I've dropped my transmaission 4 times due to eip's crap. It lasted about 2 weeks at 350WHP. .... My Bone stock R32 Setup on my 2.8 (3.2l flywheel) lasted over a year. When i pulled that it didn't even show a mark on it. I put a new OEM R32 kit in and still going strong. There is also some OE stuff from other O2M setups which is rumoured to work from higher HP platforms. I have a lightweight eip 2.8l 02M flywheel if anybody wants it cheap.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Right now I have an EIP stage 1 comp in the car (02j) that has lasted 
over 12k and it still holding strong...I drive the car pretty damn hard 
too. 
The car will be still be on daily driving duties for the next year and a half 
so I don't think I'll risk any launches with slicks until its no longer the 
daily and I can risk breaking it. 
When it is time to go all out on slicks I'll probably try to have 
[email protected] try to make something custom- until then I think I'm 
going to try the VF Stage 4. I highly doubt I will see a consensus 
from everyone here, so I just have to choose _something_. 
I greatly appreciated all the info that has been given. Please do feel 
free to add anything else. I'll probably add this to the FAQ since I 
have recieved a few requests for clutch info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: (darrenewest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darrenewest* »_looks like the VF option is the same as the eip stuff - Which is 100% garbage I've dropped my transmaission 4 times due to eip's crap. It lasted about 2 weeks at 350WHP. .... My Bone stock R32 Setup on my 2.8 (3.2l flywheel) lasted over a year. When i pulled that it didn't even show a mark on it. I put a new OEM R32 kit in and still going strong. There is also some OE stuff from other O2M setups which is rumoured to work from higher HP platforms. I have a lightweight eip 2.8l 02M flywheel if anybody wants it cheap. 


EIP use the "SPEC" dealer so its not the same as VF/CM.
Check out the fly wheel bolts and you will see that
VF+CM=same
And
SPEC+EIP=Same = fidanza flywheel


----------



## MK3NORTH (Jul 14, 2004)

Give these guys a call. They will make you exactly what you want. They use ball bearing pressure plates on their higher applications.
http://www.bullyclutch.com/indexen.html


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

just was doing some reading in the R32 forum... 
It looks like Streetwerke also uses clutchmaster for their clutch setups.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2001)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_just was doing some reading in the R32 forum... 
It looks like Streetwerke also uses clutchmaster for their clutch setups. 

Yes, we use them for our R32 turbo cars. Their quality control in how they build the clutch kits are always suspect, and we have to visually inspect all parts when they arrive. Often in the past, we would see them put Audi TT parts in the box which doesn't fly for us. 
We began testing the CM R32 clutches in March 2005, and we were the first. I can't tell you how many setup we tried that failed on the racetrack for whatever reason. We learned quite a few things along the way. Now, we have a system that works extremely well in the R32. It's really nice to drive and has held up to 633wtq during competition. I have never had one of our CM made R32 clutches slip. Since we have the long history with CM and the R32, we know what works and what's garbage. We've also done a fair share of FWD 02M applications from them too. 
Point is, they seem to be improving with regard to shipping the right parts but we don't take chances. We inspect 100% of all CM 02M clutches we sell and install. Good luck ordering from CM directly of from VF-Engineering (who recently took on the CM line for R32s). You may not get the right parts from CM. VF is a good outfit, so I'm sure they'll learn the way we did that you have to make sure you're getting the correct assembly from CM before it gets into customer hands. Drop shipping is not an option with CM. 
In the 02M clutch kits from CM that we inspect and determine to be the correct parts (proper 240mm disc, correct PP with correct # of band straps, etc.), we've had outstanding success. Forget using a LWFW in the 02M for a daily driven street car. Stick with the DM flywheel and just have it resurfaced by somebody qualified to do so (like us or any machine shop who knows how to handle DM flywheels). For those that keeping saying how bad the Sachs PP is, don't you understand it's a drastic improvement over the stock R32 PP? The R32 PP is a self adjusting one, which is terrible for performance. The Sachs unit is an OEM 1.8T PP for sure, but be thankful it's not a SAC PP like what the R32 came with.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yes, we use them for our R32 turbo cars. Their quality control in how they build the clutch kits are always suspect, and we have to visually inspect all parts when they arrive. Often in the past, we would see them put Audi TT parts in the box which doesn't fly for us. 
We began testing the CM R32 clutches in March 2005, and we were the first. I can't tell you how many setup we tried that failed on the racetrack for whatever reason. We learned quite a few things along the way. Now, we have a system that works extremely well in the R32. It's really nice to drive and has held up to 633wtq during competition. I have never had one of our CM made R32 clutches slip. Since we have the long history with CM and the R32, we know what works and what's garbage. We've also done a fair share of FWD 02M applications from them too. 
Point is, they seem to be improving with regard to shipping the right parts but we don't take chances. We inspect 100% of all CM 02M clutches we sell and install. Good luck ordering from CM directly of from VF-Engineering (who recently took on the CM line for R32s). You may not get the right parts from CM. VF is a good outfit, so I'm sure they'll learn the way we did that you have to make sure you're getting the correct assembly from CM before it gets into customer hands. Drop shipping is not an option with CM. 
In the 02M clutch kits from CM that we inspect and determine to be the correct parts (proper 240mm disc, correct PP with correct # of band straps, etc.), we've had outstanding success. Forget using a LWFW in the 02M for a daily driven street car. Stick with the DM flywheel and just have it resurfaced by somebody qualified to do so (like us or any machine shop who knows how to handle DM flywheels). For those that keeping saying how bad the Sachs PP is, don't you understand it's a drastic improvement over the stock R32 PP? The R32 PP is a self adjusting one, which is terrible for performance. The Sachs unit is an OEM 1.8T PP for sure, but be thankful it's not a SAC PP like what the R32 came with. 

R32 got LUK oem.
And VF and clutchmaster do not have a real R32 kit.








Its a 2.8V 24v kit they sell.
And the benefit of the long stroke R32 setup is lost








02M 1.8t and 24v 2.8 vr6 = normal size flywheel and normal pressure plate.
R32 = less fly wheel and more pressurplate making a better setup with more mechanical movement.


----------



## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

We have been using Clutchnet stage 3 with pretty good results,other than the fact that you have to change the PP/friction disc/FW EVERY time they wear out,it is a decent street/strip clutch.....The VR I built,running [email protected] has never had a problem,and the clutches tend to hold up to about 100+ passes,but street life with racing has been around 15K at best.
I use this on my Corrado with almost 450whp and has been holding up.....although am on my 3rd one.The VR is on its 3rd one as well.
Other than wearing out quickly and crappy on/off street feel,it has held up well.
Back in the day IIRC the GTR guys would run stock VR PP with stage 3 disc and they ran 11's with that setup.I may just do that for my next clutch,but add a extra strap on the OE PP and run the Clutchnet stage 3 6 puck disc,and Eurospec steel FW.That would be a cheap and reliable setup IMO.


_Modified by VWAUDITEK at 9:15 PM 2-10-2007_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (VWAUDITEK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITEK* »_We have been using Clutchnet stage 3 with pretty good results,other than the fact that you have to change the PP/friction disc/FW EVERY time they wear out,it is a decent street/strip clutch.....The VR I built,running [email protected] has never had a problem,and the clutches tend to hold up to about 100+ passes,but street life with racing has been around 15K at best.
I use this on my Corrado with almost 450whp and has been holding up.....although am on my 3rd one.The VR is on its 3rd one as well.
Other than wearing out quickly and crappy on/off street feel,it has held up well.
Back in the day IIRC the GTR guys would run stock VR PP with stage 3 disc and they ran 11's with that setup.I may just do that for my next clutch,but add a extra strap on the OE PP and run the Clutchnet stage 3 6 puck disc,and Eurospec steel FW.That would be a cheap and reliable setup IMO.


Thanks for the post, 
I actually started doing a ton of searching and I found a lot of info that supports exactly what you are saying. I got in touch with Joe from race-shop and I think I'm going to do the following instead of swapping in the 02M... 
I'm going to just get a set of the AP Tuning Gears (thinking the 3.00 1st gear) , rebuild my DSS Stage 2 axles which I broke a while back (I think I was too low and the angle was adversely effecting them) and install the clutchnet 6 puck sprung clutch with race-shop PP. 
Joe did mention that the setup wears quickly but I'd rather have the comfort of knowing the setup is strong as hell and proven. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Yes,I have came to the reality that we "can't have it all"...high friction/tq.holding capability and OEM life are just not possible with what is available.I really wish there was a twin disc /carbon plate for is 02A guys that would have decent life/clutch feel and handle power,like the Exedy/Tilton setups.
Eurospec does have a twin disc setup available for 02M but is so far "unproven" and costs $1500.00+
I would not hesitate to spend 1K for a clutch that will last as long as 3 6 puck ones.think of the labor you will save having to R+R trans every time!


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (VWAUDITEK)*

I have noticed recently that Exeddy is making a OEM replacement clutch for 02A and 02J applications. I only hope they will make available their multi disk and carbon clutches. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

That would be cool,but the big problem seems to be the space between the shift fork and the flywheel,there is no room there for it.....,there was a discussion about twin disc in the 1.8T forum and this point came up....and makes sense,there is only about 2" of room.The 02M has more room for it,so Eurospec AFAIK makes one.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_R32 got LUK oem.
And VF and clutchmaster do not have a real R32 kit.








Its a 2.8V 24v kit they sell.
And the benefit of the long stroke R32 setup is lost








02M 1.8t and 24v 2.8 vr6 = normal size flywheel and normal pressure plate.

I'm aware of Luk making the OEM R32 setup. I never said Sachs was OEM on the R32. Due to the SAC feature on the Luk assembly, we get rid of it when pushing the R32 past 400lb-ft. Same issue on the B5 RS4/S4 2.7T as well. Drag launches or road racing can induce a PP adjustment failure within the SAC mechanism, resulting in a gearbox that can't be shifted. I can't count how many times we've had to reset the SAC mechanism on some Luk PPs because new out of the box they're already out of adjustment due to shipping/handling. I'll take a Sachs non-SAC assembly any day over the Luk setup if high performance is the goal.
As far as I know CM does not offer sprung hub discs for use with a LWFW in 240mm configuration. They simply revert to a 228mm disc, which is not acceptable to me. We don't really sell those 228mm setups, we only sell the solid hub 240mm discs for use with the DM flywheel. Works great in an R32.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_R32 = less fly wheel and more pressurplate making a better setup with more mechanical movement.

Please elaborate on this statement if you have time.


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected]werke)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I'm aware of Luk making the OEM R32 setup. I never said Sachs was OEM on the R32. Due to the SAC feature on the Luk assembly, we get rid of it when pushing the R32 past 400lb-ft. Same issue on the B5 RS4/S4 2.7T as well. Drag launches or road racing can induce a PP adjustment failure within the SAC mechanism, resulting in a gearbox that can't be shifted. I can't count how many times we've had to reset the SAC mechanism on some Luk PPs because new out of the box they're already out of adjustment due to shipping/handling. I'll take a Sachs non-SAC assembly any day over the Luk setup if high performance is the goal.
As far as I know CM does not offer sprung hub discs for use with a LWFW in 240mm configuration. They simply revert to a 228mm disc, which is not acceptable to me. We don't really sell those 228mm setups, we only sell the solid hub 240mm discs for use with the DM flywheel. Works great in an R32.
Please elaborate on this statement if you have time. 

The euro luk R32 and the sachs 2.8 24v i got is basicly 
R32 less flywheel protruding more pressure plate
2.8 24v more flywheel less pressureplate


----------



## Brandon12V (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: (foffa2002)*

i've dealt with South Bend Clutch in person and they are great guys. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for customer service
Andy hooked me up with a Stage III OFE Clutch(330 lbft), resurfaced my flywheel, and gave it a cryo-treating for $300 in cash. its holding up great and im very pleased.


----------

