# What Turbo?!?



## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

Following Dre's excellent budget turbo thread, Im trying to put together a system. Im an 08 auto and plan to run stock comp, power goal is 220-250hp w/good midrange. For those not familiar w/the auto it shifts under hard accel at 5-5.5k rpm and good for ~250hp/tq. Given this and the fact I need a T25 to fit my manifold it rules out all the hybrids and Im left with:
GT2860R, GT2871R, GT3071R, GT3076R
Per my plots the GT2871R looks like the best fit. Does anyone have an opinion on this?


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

Subscribe.
If I ever turbo mine, those are the same goals I would have.


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: What Turbo?!? (undercoverdubber)*

With the 28 you will make crazy low end torque and I would suspect you might end up breaking some stuff in the long run


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: What Turbo?!? (MattWayMK5)*

Ive seen this arguement before, maybe from you or soemone else. I really dont understand it. Do you mean break the tq converter, axles, motor mounts and such? Or do you mean more like motor/turbo internals? If its the former I think thats an issue no matter what turbo put on there. Thankfully I have a top of the line PID controller, my brain to help prevent this







. If its the latter Im really interested as I dont know if there is a heat/detonation or surge issues as I plan on running stock comp, 7psi, IC, larger injectors and C2 software.
From the maps Ive run the 2871R looks like the most efficient choice for my platform as the auto limits my power goals. Even if I swapped the trans Id still be good to up to 310hp. Anything over this on a FWD mkv chassis doesnt make alot of sense to me at lest not for what Im using the car for.
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I think Im going to end up spending alot more on the turbo than I thought and want to make sure its a well informed purchase.


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: What Turbo?!? (undercoverdubber)*

I would be worried about drive train components


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: What Turbo?!? (MattWayMK5)*

From Clay at CTS
_"...The 2871R is not a good choice in my opinion, my friends from VAG motorsport built a kit based off this and they were having problems breaking gears on the transmission, too much torque for the trans. I would suggest the 3071RWG 86ar...."_
This is what the majority of you have beens saying, maybe I should just shut up and get the 3071R already


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## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: What Turbo?!? (undercoverdubber)*

haha told you dude


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*

If you're going to be spending top dollar on a dual ball bearing turbo, I'd at least go with a nice Precision Billet piece. We'll be utilizing them as an option in our setups. It's within the same price range of the Garrett DBB units, but features some newer technology that has reported benefits. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif We're thinking about the PTE 62/62 as a good selection for our shop 2.5L.










_Modified by [email protected] at 6:43 PM 12-14-2009_


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Hmmmmmm, what flange??


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*

V-Banded .63 hot side perhaps. Not quite sure yet as it's between the 60/62 and the 62/62 for more of a bigger power goal that we're looking for. I think for a production sort of kit that we're working with Force Fed Engineering on, a great selection would be a 60/57.
Wayne (undercoverdubber) and I have spoken a few times about the options and I think he's on the right track with a Precision unit to cover alot of ground.


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:07 PM 12-14-2009_


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

I was under the impression it was a T25 flange, finally measured it and its a T3.
Since it was a T3 I wound up going w/a Precision T3/T4E journal from Clay at CTS. I didnt know John/20^2 could source me a turbo until after I spent alot of time talking to Clay. I initially tried ATP but they never responded to my emails. Clay was patient and answered my numerous noob questions, I felt he earned my business. Of course the very day I tell Clay Im buying from him John sees my noob posts and hits me up w/a great deal on a turbo. Again, Clay earned my business and I didnt want to go back on my word.
That said, I cant speak highly enuff of John/20^2 and EJ, all been very helpful and extend excellent service while providing products at or below fair market value. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Thanks for the words. Clay definitely won't steer you wrong and would recommend him to anyone if we couldn't source much of the same stuff as he.
There's still plenty that I think you're in the need of and we can get you sorted with absolutely any aspect of your project at the most reasonable prices possible. Please don't hesitate to hit us up for fueling, software, or anything else. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *undercoverdubber* »_Precision T3/T4E journal from Clay at CTS. 

which model did you go with??


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (~kInG~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *~kInG~* »_
which model did you go with?? 

Precision Turbo T3T4E 50trim 63ar. per Clays recommendation. Ill post pic upon receipt.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *undercoverdubber* »_
Precision Turbo T3T4E 50trim 63ar. per Clays recommendation. Ill post pic upon receipt.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I'm researching these units, but their website is not up to date...


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (~kInG~)*

Yeah, kinda funky huh?! From what Clay told me in terms of quality of what he sells from good, better and best; rotomaster, garrett and precision. When I asked how precision is better than garrett, he just stated that a precision is a garrett chra matted to precision housings that are machined better.
If your looking for a great deal id call Clay at CTS or John at 20^2. They both offered deals below any Ebay or retailer I could find on the good stuff. Not only are they both are very familiar w/turbo fundamentals, they know what works on VW's.


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*

It's an SC61 as they call it at Precision, I believe. Similar to the Garrett T3/T4 57 trim in normal "speak", if I recall correctly.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Jo[email protected])*

John,
Which would be the "equivalent" Precision units for the GT3071R and GT3076R??


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *~kInG~* »_John,
Which would be the "equivalent" Precision units for the GT3071R and GT3076R??


The 3071 is a 53mm compressor wheel and 60mm turbine wheel and the 3076 is a 57mm comp. wheel and 60mm turbine wheel. For comparison sake, the 3582 is a 61mm compressor wheel and 68mm turbine wheel.
With the Precision Billet units, a 60/57, for example, features a 60mm comp. wheel and a 57mm turbine wheel, which would be similar to the 3076. In terms of 3071 equivalents, I wouldn't be looking in that realm for the 2.5L anyway.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The 3071 is a 53mm compressor wheel and 60mm turbine wheel and the 3076 is a 57mm comp. wheel and 60mm turbine wheel. For comparison sake, the 3582 is a 61mm compressor wheel and 68mm turbine wheel.
With the Precision Billet units, a 60/57, for example, features a 60mm comp. wheel and a 57mm turbine wheel, which would be similar to the 3076. In terms of 3071 equivalents, I wouldn't be looking in that realm for the 2.5L anyway.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
HP6057 then... (HP series use the billet wheels, right?)


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Yes, the HP series.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Try Precision 58/57 or even 55/57
for better spool over the 60/57. Both support 400+whp.
Precision billet 62 will support 600+whp. EXCELENT turbo. 
Spools like 35R and flows more. 
We use the 62 in R32/2.8L 24v turbo kits.
best bang for the buck on 2.5L rabbit for boost to ~20ish psi:
50 trim TO4E 
.63 hotside (stock cam) Full spool at 3k rpm
.82 hotside (suggest for: performance cam, boost above 15psi, full 3" exhaust)
Dave Graf's Rabbit made 421wftlbs/375whp on .63 50 trim at 20-21psi.
C2 rabbit makes 370ftlbs/330whp on .82 50trim at 16-17psi (all stock motor)
Turbo sizing for this motor is VERY VERY close the 12v VR6.
-Jeffrey Atwood


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Jefnes3)*

sorry I missed your tread for so long, been xtra busy. 
I know you have the turbo situation sorted already, I just want to remind eveyone that I put alot of research into the turbo setups on this motor and you should only run a turbo capable of at least 400hp. Anything smaller will produce tons of trq and wheelspin. 
We want to enjoy the car not break it.
I have a 35r and can spin wheels @ 80mph without trying.
here is my email if you dont see me online. audi4u(at)optonline.net
Happy Holidays.


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_It's an SC61 as they call it at Precision, I believe. Similar to the Garrett T3/T4 57 trim in normal "speak", if I recall correctly.

A SC61 is a Precision T61, it uses the same compressor wheel as the GT3582R, and it can come with a variety of turbine wheels from stage 3 to 5 and maybe P. 
A 57 trim is a fair bit smaller than a SC61. We've sold a few HP6262's and a billet HP6765SP-B with billet wheel, $2300 retail for this turbo. Mike Paucillio is going to be running it on his drag 1.8T, EVO's are making 900whp with this setup on a T3 82ar housing.
The new precision HP ball bearings also come with oil cooled only bearing housings, and ceramic ball bearing rather than stainless steel, which allows it to tollerate higher temps and thus no water cooling. makes for easier installs, and cleaner installs, but they are a few 100 more than your comprable garrett.


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (~kInG~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *~kInG~* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
HP6057 then... (HP series use the billet wheels, right?)


All the HP series do not use billet wheels, be careful which ones you're looking at. If you want billet it will cost more, the turbine wheels on the HP series are also proprietary from PTE and offer better flow characteristics than the Garrett units, we went over this when I was there a few months back visiting the PTE facilities, which are pretty interesting.


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Good stuff, Clay. Wasn't sure exactly what he purchased, etc. We have a few customers running the SC61 on other platforms with alot of luck. As I said earlier, I'm eying up the 6262 for myself.


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Good stuff, Clay. Wasn't sure exactly what he purchased, etc. We have a few customers running the SC61 on other platforms with alot of luck. As I said earlier, I'm eying up the 6262 for myself.

I can't blame you John, one of our customers just got one for a 24V, quite sexy indeed:









Happy holidays


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (CTS Turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CTS Turbo* »_

All the HP series do not use billet wheels, be careful which ones you're looking at. If you want billet it will cost more, the turbine wheels on the HP series are also proprietary from PTE and offer better flow characteristics than the Garrett units, we went over this when I was there a few months back visiting the PTE facilities, which are pretty interesting.









How do I know then when the HPxxxx comes with the billet wheel?


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (~kInG~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *~kInG~* »_
How do I know then when the HPxxxx comes with the billet wheel?

Whoever is selling you the turbo should be able to answer that question relatively easily.








If you have any q's feel free to IM


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (CTS Turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CTS Turbo* »_
Whoever is selling you the turbo should be able to answer that question relatively easily.








If you have any q's feel free to IM 

you have IM!


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (~kInG~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *~kInG~* »_
you have IM!
















replied


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (CTS Turbo)*

Damn it Clay, where have you been. Am I going to see you this year, same time same place?


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

ok, we covered the turbo stuff and what have not. But what about auto-gear boxes? What is the allowed maximum whp with an auto tranny and a turbo? Has anyone looked into that? I am curious.


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: (eatrach)*

Cant find the thread, but there are several C2/auto owners out there. IIRC, one owner is having a slip issue. AFIAK the only recourse for an auto owner is a Level10 tq converter. Dunno anyone who has done this tho. Also I contacted Chris at C2 re tweaking shift points via software, but they have no plans to do this.


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

*Re: (undercoverdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *undercoverdubber* »_the only recourse for an auto owner is a *Level10* tq converter.

What does this mean, and what do our cars come with stock?


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Jon1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jon1983* »_
What does this mean, and what do our cars come with stock?

http://www.levelten.com


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

Ah, got it.
What is the difference then? I'm having trouble deciphering their codes like 4HP19, 5HP19, etc. I assume that has something to do with torque rating. There's no help on that on their site, and Google turned up nothing.


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: (Jon1983)*

I dont think they do cookie cutter stuff, send them your converter and tell them what you want and theyll tell you whats possible. Best bet would be contact them directly.
Im curious to know what their "bulletproof" tranny/tq conv would be capable of . They prolly couldnt aswer that until they had in fron of them tho, unless theyve already done one.


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

Well, there's no way I would send them the one from my car since it's daily-driven. And it's only $500 more to get them to make a brand new one. I'm just curious what kind of torque ratings these things have, what advantages there are, etc.


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jon1983* »_Well, there's no way I would send them the one from my car since it's daily-driven.


Completely understandable, but its things like this that make for only a few people taking things to the impressive level.

_Quote, originally posted by *Jon1983* »_ I'm just curious what kind of torque ratings these things have, what advantages there are, etc.


I wouldn't worry about it. the topic comes up all the time and nothing ever progresses with it as nobody will ever do it.


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

I found one guy that did it, just waiting to hear back from him.


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*

Thanks Clay and John!!!
Got my header, turbo, wg and the pump/injectors on the way stoked!!



















_Modified by undercoverdubber at 1:29 PM 1-9-2010_


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Looks like you're making headway.
If you're in need of fueling, or any other hardware, let me know


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Looks like you're making headway.
If you're in need of fueling, or any other hardware, let me know









yes, absolutley, just need to save up my allowance lol


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *undercoverdubber* »_Thanks Clay and John!!!
Got my header, turbo, wg and the pump/injectors on the way stoked!!
















_Modified by undercoverdubber at 1:29 PM 1-9-2010_

envious!!
















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nvsbandit (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (~kInG~)*

woot woot tial...products of michigan. good choice on the turbo btw.
good luck! i wanna see this done soon!


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *undercoverdubber* »_Thanks Clay and John!!!
Got my header, turbo, wg and the pump/injectors on the way stoked!!


No prob, 550cc injectors, pump and plugs on the way this week, then C2 pro maf setup


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (CTS Turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CTS Turbo* »_

No prob, 550cc injectors, pump and plugs on the way this week, *then C2 pro maf setup*









what you say?!?!


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## weenerdog3443 (Jul 5, 2007)

*FV-QR*

sick i wanna see this thing whens its done


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*

Got my 550cc injectors, harness adapters and walbro pump. FPR is on order and hope to start on the intake mani, down pipe, down tube and IC in spring.


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*

for reference... what harness adapters did you go with?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (~kInG~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *~kInG~* »_for reference... what harness adapters did you go with?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


There are no adapters that go from EV1 to nippon style, so we got EV1 to pig tails, from CTS


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (CTS Turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CTS Turbo* »_

There are no adapters that go from EV1 to nippon style, so we got EV1 to pig tails, from CTS









yeah you can get EV1 to Nippon harnesses from Five0motorsports.
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com...id=40
but what most of us would need, including undercover, is EV6 to nippon which you/I cant find.....


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (sharons03jetta)*

the plan is to splice into a spare harness, that is if theres a seperate node for the injectors from the main harness, bentley really doesnt show.
Scott whats up man!


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## sharons03jetta (Jul 6, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*

wayne... you've got a good jump on this turbo thing... I wish I could say the same..... I do have a real nice colection of baby clothes, crib and toys... lol


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## undercoverdubber (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (sharons03jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sharons03jetta* »_wayne... you've got a good jump on this turbo thing... I wish I could say the same..... I do have a real nice colection of baby clothes, crib and toys... lol










Well im sure having a raising a child is much more rewarding than tweaking a car, glad you got your priorities straight. congratulations!


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## yohimbe (Jun 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (undercoverdubber)*

does anybody know what 0-60 times the c2 kits have on the automatic tranny ? stage 1 and 2 .


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

bmp


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

awesome thread.. i have read it a few times... back when it was made.  

i've been here to long...  

bump for new reads.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> awesome thread.. i have read it a few times... back when it was made.
> 
> i've been here to long...
> 
> bump for new reads.


 lol. i am picking up where this left off...4 years later. now i know who originally had planned to use the parts i picked up. i just bought my car and became a member on here when these guys where making 2.5t moves


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

This is an informative awesome threada

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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