# 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers??



## PAGTI91 (Jul 3, 2001)

I have looked several places but I can't find flow numbers on a ported (or stock for that matter!!) 8v crossflow head. Can they break 200CFM???
TIA....


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (PAGTI91)*

Wow...anything is possible but if an 8v head can flow over 200, it won't come alive until it's over 5k rpms. Just rambling, I've got flow charts showing 167 on a counterflow head, you'd assume a Xflow would perhaps get a few more......dunno.....check with Peter Tong for some interesting Excel flow chart comparisons and with porttuning.com for their experiences with it.


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## PAGTI91 (Jul 3, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (Andrew Stauffer)*

thanks for the info. I know 200 is high, I would imagine only a race spec style xflow head done by a GOOD source would get that number or close to it. def. a high rpm situation to get that flow.
That site has some nice info, none for the xflow head that I see but I'll try to get someone on the phone. The head I get done is going on an xflow turbo, I am trying to resist doing a 16v head...I have other plans for the 16v head.


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## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (PAGTI91)*

My X-flow is mid-upper 180's I do believe. Its mild PnP, 3 angle, 1mm thinner stems, the basics. Opened up 40% in mid range over stock. I don't know exact numbers as the sheet is at my house.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (KrautFed)*

Krautfed,
Would you care to post your lift vs flow figures... I'd love to give them a looksee...
regards,
Peter T.


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (PAGTI91)*

Joel's crossflow head is for sale (still).... IIRC the intakes were over 170cfm at .450 lift (measured at 28").
The head has been converted to solid lifters, Ferrea SS valves, R&D springs, and of course the custom Lugnuts spec Web-Cam.


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## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Would you care to post your lift vs flow figures... I'd love to give them a looksee...

Will do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (they are actually at my parents place, hopefully I'll stop by there this weekend)
After lugnuts stating that Joel's was 170cfm @ .450 & 28"...my memory might be off a good bit lol. I'm used to these damn 20v's, but I will definitely find the data sheet.
BTW - For anyone looking for a serious head, look no further than Joel's X-flow. If I hadnt already sunk all this money into the head I have, I would definitely take that solid lifter head off of Joel for him. Joel's head is 400+whp proven.

_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_custom Lugnuts spec

HAHA http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (lugnuts)*

Lugnuts,
My Eurospec head (stock valves) hits around 161 cfm at .45"@28 on the intake side so Joels head must be doing real good...is he running 6mm valve stems...larger valves?
Looking forward to seeing some data...
regards,
Peter T.


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## PAGTI91 (Jul 3, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (lugnuts)*

IM'd you - lemme know a price - I have some motors for trade too, as always the $greenery$ is in short supply


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## purple-pill (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (Peter Tong)*

they are stock 7mm valves........I know for a fact that there are x-flows making 200+.......i could and would like to go that route for.....my own personal goals.....but how much is too much to invest in a 8 valve motor in class where there are no limitions.....dragracing.....anyways.....changing the bottom ends specs will increase cfm also...


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (purple-pill)*

Joel,
Those are some amazing flow figures...I've got a plot that Dan Bubb kindly furnished with his Collin ported TT Street Port II - hits 170cfm at .5" and about the same as mine at .45... so I'm just wondering what "they've" done to take these ports to the next level... 200 is more than a stock 1.8 16v flows...
regards,
Peter T.


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## Stephen Webb (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (lugnuts)*

What's the story on the head -- how much $?
-Steve


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## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (Stephen Webb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stephen Webb* »_What's the story on the head -- how much $?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1133771
Guys, I should have flow #'s for ya'll over the weekend. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (KrautFed)*

nice of you to supply the link http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
guys, most of the big flow heads you hear about come from origins other than drag racing.. thats a hint. 
Joels valve head diameters are stock, the stems are longer to accomodate the reduced base circle cam and also to allow longer springs.
Bill Matter does our head work, he has the white all-motor 8v rabbit making 177 whp.


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## 81 vw pickup (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (lugnuts)*

iv gotten these heads over 200 cfm but it reqires rewelding under the lifter bridge
and new lifter bores the heat really puts em outa shape..kroutfed got his head from dave at d&f performance and i believe it was at 550 lift.they flow 155-158 stock.
an average port job from them flows around 180 cfm any more and it isntreal streetable ..my current head flows 196 cfm and i made 333.8 and 378ft lbs of tq whp at aroun 20-22 lbs of boost..pushing alot more boost through it im sure that ## will greatly increase we were spending too much time getting the cam timing and fp right for street driving...next trip will also be on nos ..
oh and a verry restrictive point after a while becomes the lower intake manifold..
the head im running now has larger valves not sure of the specs right off the top of my head.but the origional over 200 had stock diameter..


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (KrautFed)*

Any #s ?


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## EuroSport98 (Sep 25, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (Peter Tong)*

back from the dead for some numbers!


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (EuroSport98)*

theres a flow chart somewhere on here with port tunings stages 3 head flowing 183 cfm @ .450 out of a cross flow head....any body know what im talking about?
(@.550 it was flowing 188 cfm)







i would say thats pretty bad ass!



_Modified by blackmkIII at 5:04 AM 11-11-2004_


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## The Green (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (blackmkIII)*

ok, i have a question about an xflow head:
i have one overhere that i'm gonna use for my 8vt, it's going to be max ported and flowed, the complete worx, larger in and exh valves, mech., just everything (damn thing will set me back for 1.500€)

isn't it true that the more flow your head gives, the larger turbo you can spool???
aiming for +280hp, gt2871 or t3/t4, 550cc inj


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (The Green)*

im pretty sure the answer to this is yes.....


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## The Green (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (blackmkIII)*

but what's the downside then? i thought there were only advantages when max flowing the head? seems to me that the previous posts aren't all possitive about it


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (blackmkIII)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackmkIII* »_theres a flow chart somewhere on here with port tunings stages 3 head flowing 183 cfm @ .450 out of a cross flow head....any body know what im talking about?
(@.550 it was flowing 188 cfm)







i would say thats pretty bad ass!

That must have been my head








This is a stage 3 head (www.porttuning.com) with stock diameter valves, however the stems are 6.3mm. The exhaust numbers on the graph are for a stage 2 as my stage 3 numbers were "misplaced"








In any case, with larger valves 200cfm @ 0.550" lift is certainly possible. Another thing to remember is that most hydraulic cams don't go much over 0.460" lift (let me know if you find one) so you really don't see much more than the low 180cfms..and that's at max lift. So if you want to get higher cfms you'll have to swap over to solid lifters and get a more radical cam








Oh and my car is a street car but idles like it has a 288 cam...oh wait it does


















_Modified by bajan01 at 9:17 PM 11-25-2005_


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## EVDTuning (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (bajan01)*

Great thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I to am wondering how much an 8v head can flow. Im building a monster ABA head. SS swirl polished oversized valves (41mmx34mm) stems undercut to 6.8mm, triple grove Titainum spring retainers. heavy duty valve springs. I had it ported to within an inch of its life. I had the bowls deepened and inlarged in aide to lower the cr. We havent bench flowed it yet as it still needs more work.
I was always curious on how would a ABA flowed with numbers to back it up. keep it going as im learning new things in this thread.
I know we are not talking about 16v's but i would like to know wuts the best numbers. We are gonna do some head work on our N/A 16v drag car and i would like to know wut are peep's doing to get the head to flow big numbers.


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (EVDTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EVDTuning* »_Great thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I know we are not talking about 16v's but i would like to know wuts the best numbers. We are gonna do some head work on our N/A 16v drag car and i would like to know wut are peep's doing to get the head to flow big numbers.

Hit up Jose at www.porttuning.com. I believe that he told me that his goal was 300cfm for the 16V head


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (bajan01)*

yep.... thats the one i was talking about.







those are some very respectable #'s coming from a cross flow. good job to porttuning and lucky u for owning it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (blackmkIII)*

and u said that those were the stock diameter valves?


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (blackmkIII)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackmkIII* »_and u said that those were the stock diameter valves?

Yes sir...makes me wish that I went all the way with larger diameter valves
















My head is on the left










_Modified by bajan01 at 9:16 PM 11-25-2005_


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (bajan01)*

damn that thing looks good.....







i wish i had one.


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## EVDTuning (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (blackmkIII)*

Maybe someone can give a bit of help in this thread,
We have been talking to a local cam manufacturer into making custom cams for mainly 8v & 16v. nothing massed produced or anything just a few sets. These guys mainly make custom cams for muscle cars but they are willing to jump in the "import scene". On friday i will be dropping off a few stock cams and 2 heads for measurement so they can put them in CAD. Now im no head expert so im confused on a few things as to wut should i get made first. Im getting a set made for the shop's project rocco and a cam for my turbo ABA (list of specs below). The rocco is gonna be a strictly track car so we want to go all out. The ABA-t is just the weekend cruise/track car. These 3 cams are gonna cost me a good bit. but plans for a break are in the works for the future if these work well. Basicly im looking for some ideas on the best duration, lobe size, all that







any help would be much appreciated. Please IM me as i dont wanna jack the guy's thread

_*88 rocco (N/A 2.1 16v)*
Fully built bottom end (too much to list)
stage 2 head work by collin at TT with all TT internals
TWM Inductions 16v ITB w/ 3006 series 50mm TB and custom manifold (on its way from TWM)_
We took the fueling (CIS) to its limits so we are going SDS and the new ITB's. We are also gonna redesgn the head to accmodate the high flow coming from the big TB's.
90 GTI 2.0T)
Your normal run of the mill rebuilt bottom, P&P head, T3 Super 60 (60/63 a/r) with a few other goodies running on Digi1, short runner, walbro 255lph, 42 lb inj. adj. FPR etc etc......


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## rebel_eye (Mar 29, 2001)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (EVDTuning)*

copy a shrick grind


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## arvcube (Aug 11, 1999)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (rebel_eye)*

great info


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 8v xflow head CFM - anyone with numbers?? (arvcube)*

reccomendation for an xflow driver running 20+lbs of boost?
i've ran 20psi through my head on a few occasions. i am no expert tuner, still learning (034efi) but javad himself will be tuning my motor shortly for max boost. so over 20psi...
any reccomendation on what to do with my head?


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