# Tiguan Power



## RanierB (Nov 13, 2014)

I am asking for a friend who is considering a Tiguan to replace his Mazda CUV.

Two questions:

1. Do you feel the Tiguan is underpowered?

2. For those who did a new tune for the engine, what is your opinion now?

I drive a 2017 Alltrack with 105,000 miles on it. I've been very pleased. Just in case you wanted to know.


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## phat10CC (Dec 29, 2009)

The Tiguan is zippy around town, but on any highway usage, it's a bit of a dog. 0-60 you can see its a bit slow, and then it doesn't have a ton of top end.

Not tuned but based on the HP and TQ numbers, it will put the Tiguan in a great spot, 250HP and 300 TQ (uni tune)


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

Don’t be deceived by those numbers. If you want an honest answer, the tuned Tiguan is still slow and stock is super slow. My 2019 SEL P 4Mo is APR+ stage 1. Compared to Mazda’s turbo engine it’s slower but against the non-turbo, it’s similar or better. Tiguan’s transmission lets it down and the engine sounds raspy when pushed. But let’s be clear, it’s not meant to be a fast sport SUV. It’s a comfortable family SUV with good space and gets decent MPG. Let’s not make it more than what it is.


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## child_in_time (Aug 9, 2006)

We just switched my wife’s 2016 GSW for 2022 Tiguan and I’ve driven it on a few occasions. When it comes to power, it’s just OK, I feel it could use additional 20-30 hp, but for zipping around town and highway cruising it is OK. It’s not meant to be fast. Comparing to 1.8T we had in GSW, engine in Tiguan is slightly better (maybe a tad louder) and 8 speed slush box is also better than the 6 speed auto in GSW. Overall my wife likes it better than GSW.


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## TigWan (Dec 20, 2021)

Not a sports car but sufficiently powerful for normal purposes. The economy is great on the highway if you stay at around the speed limit. I have got better than 42mpg on 50 mile trips sitting at the speed limits of 55, 60, and 65 on cruise control. I have 9,000 miles in 6 months and am very happy with mine.


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## Bmanx (Apr 27, 2018)

We currently have a 2018 Tiguan and a 2018 Alltrack. The Tiguan in stock form is not a bad vehicle but not a stand out. The Tiguan tuned is faster than the Alltrack in stock form but like others have mentioned the slush box is the issue. If the Tiguan had the DSG that I have in my Alltrack, then we would not be having this conversation as it would be a much better vehicle. With the Stage 1 Uni tune it is nice to drive especially in sports mode. VW made a mistake with the transmission but other than that is is a nice vehicle.


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## DrkPhoenix (Jul 28, 2020)

We have a 2022 Tiguan Highline and 2018 Alltrack. From what I've been reading, and feeling, VW changed the tuning on the transmission. The Tiguan is peppy and I dont feel any lag in response (other than slight turbo lag). The DSG is by far a better transmission, but I dont hate driving the Tiguan. I agree with others on the highway thing, it has no upper-end pickup. (Still love my Alltrack a lot more )


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## O-Deer (Sep 15, 2021)

Am I the only one who puts it in Sport for expressway/interstate driving, I would agree in saying overall its not a "fast" car but it definitely doesn't feel slow and gets out of its own way well enough. I have no issues in driving 70-95MPH as needed. (no tune, regular fuel)


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## smg64ct203 (Jan 26, 2003)

I had a 2018 Tiguan that was a total pos and traded in at 37k, that’s another story. It was painfully slow and when you hit the gas it got really loud. I just couldn’t deal with the lack of power. I traded it in for a 2020 Honda Passport, it’s quick smooth and quiet.


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## Bmanx (Apr 27, 2018)

My tuned Tiguan took a Honda Passport just the other day. lol. Maybe he was not a good driver.
And I get way better mileage.


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## ckspeed68 (Aug 20, 2012)

Same here, my tune Unitronic 93 gets as high as 32 mpg @70mph easy drive. Sport mode is great.


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

The stock 2022 Tiguan accelerates 0-60 MPH in 8.1 sec (FWD) or 9.1 sec (AWD). Testing was from MT and C&D. Older models such as my 2019 are slightly slower due to transmission tuning. That is at best average for a mainstream SUV. OP asked if the stock Tiguan is underpowered and I and most publications will say it is. I'm guessing people who think it's acceptable are used to average or below average cars.

I can't afford to exclusively drive 'fast' cars either, but I believe all cars should be <7.5 sec in order to be acceptable. That's why I dropped $1k to tune my Tiguan immediately in order to be in that range. But to be honest, even with the tune it's still 'slow' compared to my 330i so I avoid driving it unless I need to.


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## Bmanx (Apr 27, 2018)

My 91octane Uni tuned 4motion tiguan is 7.2 seconds 0-60 and I am sure I could get that just under 7 with a few simple tweaks. That is fast enough for this vehicle. My Alltrack is 4.2 0-60 so if I want to go fast in a VW I can and still haul whatever I want. lol.


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## smg64ct203 (Jan 26, 2003)

Bmanx said:


> My tuned Tiguan took a Honda Passport just the other day. lol. Maybe he was not a good driver.
> And I get way better mileage.


I’m sure it was a bad driver. I get 25 on the highway, which is good for a heavy vehicle. I really loved the size of the Tiguan, but I just got tired of all the unscheduled stops.


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## auduron (9 mo ago)

As another poster has mentioned, I would call the Tiguan more zippy/quick than fast. It's good around town, from a start, getting up to 30-40mph. On the highway you can feel it kinda struggling pushing itself from 55-70 for example. Higher in the rev range (~5k) the power falls off at those speeds.

However for me, I more or less exclusively do city driving, so I would prefer a quick car as opposed to a fast car (if that makes sense).

I have a 2020 Tiguan SE R-Line. No tune.


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## Bmanx (Apr 27, 2018)

227/290 with a stage1 is very zippy in town and no issue on the highway.

go stage1+ And you get 249/304 and that is not slow.


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## TiggyinPA (12 mo ago)

RanierB said:


> I am asking for a friend who is considering a Tiguan to replace his Mazda CUV.
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> ...


I can only answer the first question, but my 2019 is slow and feels slow too, though there was some improvement after the TSB service for updated transmission programming. I would have said my previous 2016 Tiguan was zippy, but not this MQB one.

Comparing to a MK8 GTI, a Tiguan loses about 20% max torque and gains 600 lbs, and that math has consequences.

Your friend should test drive before he buys. It’s fine for my wife but I wouldn’t recommend one for an enthusiast.


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## Hrafn77 (8 mo ago)

Bmanx said:


> 227/290 with a stage1 is very zippy in town and no issue on the highway.
> 
> go stage1+ And you get 249/304 and that is not slow.


Stage1+ looks fantastic, but unfortunately for me the midwest doesn't believe in 93 octane fuel. We're stuck with 91...


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## Diego012 (Aug 14, 2019)

Guess I'll never understand this addiction to power. I drive my 2019 SEL with a stock "untuned" engine , if you're happy calling it that, upwords of a dozen times a year through the mountains down to LA and all over LA without a problem. You're not going to get a screamer out of a 4 banger no matter what you do to it and because of that I always get a chuckle when I read discussions about tuning this or tweaking that. Trade it in on a Porsche for god sake. (not meant for the OP).


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

Diego012 said:


> Guess I'll never understand this addiction to power. I drive my 2019 SEL with a stock "untuned" engine , if you're happy calling it that, upwords of a dozen times a year through the mountains down to LA and all over LA without a problem. You're not going to get a screamer out of a 4 banger no matter what you do to it and because of that I always get a chuckle when I read discussions about tuning this or tweaking that. Trade it in on a Porsche for god sake. (not meant for the OP).


This kind of thinking is why an underpowered Tiguan exists. VW could have made it more powerful but why bother if people like you accept mediocrity and will buy it anyway. Throw in a slow transmission to top it off. No one tuning the Tiguan wants to make it a race car but we want slightly more power because the stock car is objectively slow.

As for all 4 bangers being slow, that’s just incorrect. Check out the Atlas, GTI or Golf R using a variant of the same EA888 4 banger and they all output more with different tuning and tweaks. Or see BMW and Porsche using 4 banger turbos in both cars and SUVs that are much quicker. Want more evidence that’s not luxury? Check out Kia, Mazda, Ford or pretty much most brands have 4 banger turbos that are quicker than Tiguan. In reality, Tiguan’s 4 banger turbo compares to other brands non-turbo 4 banger found on their low end trims. Kinda sad right?


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## threethreefivee (9 mo ago)

I have a Stage 1 Tiguan that I run 93 on and it's plenty quick in Drive Mode -> Sport. So much that I prefer to drive it in Normal with sport steering because it makes a lot more sense given the car and transmission. Feels almost like a turbo diesel. The stock Tiguan is significantly underpowered, but both are great around town from a UX and MPG perspective. A $500(?) tune gets you significantly more power and really should just be a purchase decision when getting the car. Where else can you get that much power for the money with _no _other modifications? 

One thing I would suggest people look at is whether your car is actually in sport mode or not. It will default to normal after shutting down no matter what mode you're in and you'll need to manually cycle back to Drive Mode -> Sport in order to get it working again. From my research this _is _different than just pulling back on the stick and moving it in to sport mode there - the pedal/drive mode itself is more sensitive, where as the transmission seems to be just changing the rev limits/shift points, which I do also like in just the normal drive mode.

There's also a TCU recall on the 18, 19s, and 20s. There were some extreme issues with hesitation that I know caused some people to sell/trade-in their car. Call your dealership and check what firmware you're on. Mine was up to date when I bought my 2019 used in mid-2021.

Hopefully, this helps. Unless you go non-german, or pony up a lot more money, the options for performance-oriented SUVs in this price bracket is extremely slim.I like the warranty (72k on the 19s) and other comfort features for the money over the competition. There's also a lot of parts available for the MQB platform so the options are out there.


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## Bmanx (Apr 27, 2018)

Yep 4 bangers are slow. Lol
Test 0-60 today in the Alltrack


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## Volkswagens-for-life (Jun 24, 2013)

Diego012 said:


> Guess I'll never understand this addiction to power. I drive my 2019 SEL with a stock "untuned" engine , if you're happy calling it that, upwords of a dozen times a year through the mountains down to LA and all over LA without a problem. You're not going to get a screamer out of a 4 banger no matter what you do to it and because of that I always get a chuckle when I read discussions about tuning this or tweaking that. Trade it in on a Porsche for god sake. (not meant for the OP).



Uhhh there are handfuls of world class 4 bangers out there that would like to have a word with you...


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## OhioSpyderman (Jul 21, 2021)

While I'm on the "These vehicles STOCK are slow" bandwagon, I'm more on the "why does this vehicle hesitate from a stop situation"?
No, I'm not talking about the STOP/START crap, I disabled that (very happy with that move).
There have been at least two occasions where I am waiting to turn left, stab the gas and it goes "BLAH", putting me and the vehicle in a potentially dangerous situation.

I've done the intake and turbo inlet upgrade and it IS better (both in performance and "sound"), but the hesitation (while better) still happens.
What gives?

I don't need to have MEGA horsepower, I just want CONSISTANT power.

Bob.


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## Bmanx (Apr 27, 2018)

OhioSpyderman said:


> While I'm on the "These vehicles STOCK are slow" bandwagon, I'm more on the "why does this vehicle hesitate from a stop situation"?
> No, I'm not talking about the STOP/START crap, I disabled that (very happy with that move).
> There have been at least two occasions where I am waiting to turn left, stab the gas and it goes "BLAH", putting me and the vehicle in a potentially dangerous situation.
> 
> ...


you tuned? Those items and a tune which is what we have is where it should have been.


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## OhioSpyderman (Jul 21, 2021)

No sir.
I weighed the benefits (and negatives) and my warranty won out.
That, and the fact that I'm 65 and don't really need the power (last car was a 320+ HP twin turbo 95 Mitsu Spyder VR4).
Why can't they fix the power band? (or throttle response?) 

Bob.


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## Diego012 (Aug 14, 2019)

Volkswagens-for-life said:


> Uhhh there are handfuls of world class 4 bangers out there that would like to have a word with you...


Not my concern. The only time I am concerned about power is when I'm low and slow on short final or during take off especially on a short runway. You guys can hammer out the details of the two dimensional world.


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## Hrafn77 (8 mo ago)

Diego012 said:


> Not my concern. The only time I am concerned about power is when I'm low and slow on short final or during take off especially on a short runway. You guys can hammer out the details of the two dimensional world.


How is Flight Simulator 2020 these days?


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## threethreefivee (9 mo ago)

OhioSpyderman said:


> No sir.
> I weighed the benefits (and negatives) and my warranty won out.
> That, and the fact that I'm 65 and don't really need the power (last car was a 320+ HP twin turbo 95 Mitsu Spyder VR4).
> Why can't they fix the power band? (or throttle response?)
> ...


Warranty stays intact with the APR+. I’m pretty sure it’s the same as the Stage 1 now and it’s the only thing they offer besides a Stage 2. 245hp/275ft is pretty decent. I think the CTS down pipe really unlocks some more capabilities with this engine.

For your comment on hesitation, check your firmware. There was a TCU recall. I thought it was just the 18s, 19s and 20s but maybe some early 21s didn’t get it as well? There was a legitimate issue with hesitation from what I’ve read where the car would actually fail to accelerate as it should. Otherwise it is just a little slower and requires more foot than most other cars I’ve owned. Had no issues with power on the stock 20 SE had as a loner, although it made the Stage 1 feel like a rocket when I got back in my car.


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## jonese (Jun 21, 2020)

The warranty isn't intact, it's replaced by APR. And it's not the full answer as it's only offered in the USA, it's not offered to Canadians (last I checked).


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## threethreefivee (9 mo ago)

jonese said:


> The warranty isn't intact, it's replaced by APR. And it's not the full answer as it's only offered in the USA, it's not offered to Canadians (last I checked).


From my understanding, it's not necessarily replaced by APR, but VW and APR work together in the event of something happening and figure out who is truly at fault (this direct from an APR rep I spoke to) - but from my perspective, the car is still taken care of in the event of something catastrophic. Whether it's VW or APR is irrelevant to me.

Bummer they don't offer it in Canada. Some of VWs decisions for NA are questionable at best...


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## smg64ct203 (Jan 26, 2003)

OhioSpyderman said:


> While I'm on the "These vehicles STOCK are slow" bandwagon, I'm more on the "why does this vehicle hesitate from a stop situation"?
> No, I'm not talking about the STOP/START crap, I disabled that (very happy with that move).
> There have been at least two occasions where I am waiting to turn left, stab the gas and it goes "BLAH", putting me and the vehicle in a potentially dangerous situation.
> 
> ...


That’s what happened to me, my 2018 when you hit the gas the thing just didn’t go anywhere then it would go but it wasn’t smooth. We had a hot July day I took a left and cars were coming but I had plenty of time to do the turn. I hit the gas and nothing, scared the heck out of me . The dealer send there was nothing they could do about it and I did go to another dealer for a second opinion and they said the same thing. That’s when I said no more turbo 4’s for me and traded it in .


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## OhioSpyderman (Jul 21, 2021)

There is nothing wrong with this "turbo 4" engine.
It's the dumbed down tune that VW applied to get better EPA ratings.
While it would never be a world beater, it could possess a lot more power if those in charge would just ease up on the tune a bit.

Just my .02

Bob.


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## Volkswagens-for-life (Jun 24, 2013)

OhioSpyderman said:


> There is nothing wrong with this "turbo 4" engine.
> It's the dumbed down tune that VW applied to get better EPA ratings.
> While it would never be a world beater, it could possess a lot more power if those in charge would just ease up on the tune a bit.
> 
> ...


Agreed.


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## threethreefivee (9 mo ago)

OhioSpyderman said:


> There is nothing wrong with this "turbo 4" engine.
> It's the dumbed down tune that VW applied to get better EPA ratings.
> While it would never be a world beater, it could possess a lot more power if those in charge would just ease up on the tune a bit.
> 
> ...


its not a dumbed down EA888 - it’s the b cycle variant. Similar, but different engine.


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## OhioSpyderman (Jul 21, 2021)

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but one would think if they can "on the fly" make the intake valve timing move to a standard cycle (with the result being that one gets more power when they want it), they could also eliminate the b cycle completely. It's obvious it can withstand the higher compression.
Again, here is the reason for it "The Budack cycle is a new version of the Atkinson engine cycle. It was created by Volkswagen to provide its vehicles with a more efficient combustion process and* improved fuel efficiency.* "

Bob.


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

More evidence that VW deliberately 'dumbed down' the Tiguan, comparing against a base Audi Q3 Quattro:

0-60 MPH in 7.4 sec, about 2 sec quicker than base Tiguan 4motion
Same 184 HP 221 TQ engine, likely tuned differently than Tiguan
Same 8 speed transmission, likely tuned differently than Tiguan
Curb weight of 3,916 lbs, about 100 lbs heavier than Tiguan
23/30 MPG city/highway, same or better but many variables to consider
Price about $8k higher, so a stage 1 tuned Tiguan is better value if you ignore the more 'premium' Q3


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## threethreefivee (9 mo ago)

OhioSpyderman said:


> I'm not a mechanical engineer, but one would think if they can "on the fly" make the intake valve timing move to a standard cycle (with the result being that one gets more power when they want it), they could also eliminate the b cycle completely. It's obvious it can withstand the higher compression.
> Again, here is the reason for it "The Budack cycle is a new version of the Atkinson engine cycle. It was created by Volkswagen to provide its vehicles with a more efficient combustion process and* improved fuel efficiency.* "
> 
> Bob.


I don't know much about the internals but know that it is physically different, per the article below. But again, all related to MPGs, which unfortunately is what most people care about who buy this car (and I'm starting to more at $5/gallon for premium in SW Ohio ). I really still think the downpipe helps unlock this car, but a TCU tune is needed as well.









Volkswagen’s new ‘B-Cycle’ engine: potential diesel surrogate


With a high compression ratio and a comparative abundance of low-rpm torque, VW's new, efficiency-enhancing B-Cycle 4-cylinder engine makes a convincing diesel substitute.



www.sae.org







dragonpalm said:


> More evidence that VW deliberately 'dumbed down' the Tiguan, comparing against a base Audi Q3 Quattro:
> 
> 0-60 MPH in 7.4 sec, about 2 sec quicker than base Tiguan 4motion
> Same 184 HP 221 TQ engine, likely tuned differently than Tiguan
> ...


It definitely is dumbed down, like OhioSpyderman said, because it can be unlocked with a few dollars and some software lol. But do agree that it is a better value and with a few upgrades it's looking like a steal. Transmission is just super rough so I'm wondering if it is the same 8 speed as the Q3, what the big difference is?


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## SwiftGTI (Jul 15, 2011)

O-Deer said:


> Am I the only one who puts it in Sport for expressway/interstate driving, I would agree in saying overall its not a "fast" car but it definitely doesn't feel slow and gets out of its own way well enough. I have no issues in driving 70-95MPH as needed. (no tune, regular fuel)


I was surprised how much of an improvement Sport mode made on my fwd Tiguan. Really woke the car up. So much so that I’m no longer interested in a tune. I never wanted a ton of power on this car, but enough for it to feel responsive. With Sport mode, it’s still not fast, but definitely feels like it’s eager to go. VW should change the Sport mode to Normal, and the Normal mode to Econ.


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## auduron (9 mo ago)

Can anyone elaborate on the power differences between the "true" tune (APR) vs the "piggy back" tune (Berger & NEUSPEED)?


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## Volkswagens-for-life (Jun 24, 2013)

Huge difference. Custom tune will alter more fields than piggyback.


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## threethreefivee (9 mo ago)

Volkswagens-for-life said:


> Huge difference. Custom tune will alter more fields than piggyback.


I mean, a piggy back is just a custom tune that sits on top of the ECU instead of changing values directly? The JB4 on my 335 had absolutely no issues doing anything a tune could do, plus I could change things on the fly through my speedo/tach.


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## Volkswagens-for-life (Jun 24, 2013)

threethreefivee said:


> I mean, a piggy back is just a custom tune that sits on top of the ECU instead of changing values directly? The JB4 on my 335 had absolutely no issues doing anything a tune could do, plus I could change things on the fly through my speedo/tach.


A piggyback doesn't have access to all of the variables that a tune does, it just can't reach that deep into the ECU. But, most say a piggyback (that's removed....) Is untraceable by the dealer.


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## threethreefivee (9 mo ago)

Volkswagens-for-life said:


> A piggyback doesn't have access to all of the variables that a tune does, it just can't reach that deep into the ECU. But, most say a piggyback (that's removed....) Is untraceable by the dealer.


Interesting...again, didn't feel like the JB4 had any limitations to it (it could even reach in and change the position of the turbo wastegates), but I could be wrong.


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

threethreefivee said:


> From my understanding, it's not necessarily replaced by APR, but VW and APR work together in the event of something happening and figure out who is truly at fault (this direct from an APR rep I spoke to) - but from my perspective, the car is still taken care of in the event of something catastrophic. Whether it's VW or APR is irrelevant to me.
> 
> Bummer they don't offer it in Canada. Some of VWs decisions for NA are questionable at best...


I would read the fine print and what is expected of the owner after the tune. Because we all know people read manuals, etc. If I recall if you use their tune OCI goes from 10K to I believe 5K and other caveats. You don’t meet your end of the agreement, harder to get any issues covered under warranty. Not sure if they updated language in recent years, but if you make additional mods such as exhaust, turbo, etc to the engine the APR warranty no longer applies. This may have changed, so I would again read the fine print and paperwork provided by APR. From my understanding the APR warranty is actually a third-party warranty that works with VW service in the event VW claims your tune is what caused damage and therefore not covered by the factory warranty. I’m sure knowing APR’s reputation if there is an impasse they’ll assist. Also helps to see if your dealership is tune friendly, some dealerships will perform the tune and are easier to work with if there is a potential issue. Other dealerships, well we all know how others can be. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## threethreefivee (9 mo ago)

Reihenmotor5 said:


> I would read the fine print and what is expected of the owner after the tune. Because we all know people read manuals, etc. If I recall if you use their tune OCI goes from 10K to I believe 5K and other caveats. You don’t meet your end of the agreement, harder to get any issues covered under warranty. Not sure if they updated language in recent years, but if you make additional mods such as exhaust, turbo, etc to the engine the APR warranty no longer applies. This may have changed, so I would again read the fine print and paperwork provided by APR. From my understanding the APR warranty is actually a third-party warranty that works with VW service in the event VW claims your tune is what caused damage and therefore not covered by the factory warranty. I’m sure knowing APR’s reputation if there is an impasse they’ll assist. Also helps to see if your dealership is tune friendly, some dealerships will perform the tune and are easier to work with if there is a potential issue. Other dealerships, well we all know how others can be.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, you’re spot on. Every 5k and I’m sure they’ll hold you’re feet to the fire about it. I’ve never had an issue with a tune but they definitely don’t tell you these things when buying. Wondering also how much they have to prove the negligence caused the issue or not because that sounds like a pretty aggressive catch all if it’s applied broadly. 



https://www.goaprplus.com/includes/doc/customer_warranty_booklet.pdf


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

Thanks for the link and sharing. Everyone should read these when provided and know it inside and out. 

Yea language is loose enough their like the house at a casino. Lack of proper maintenance is pretty broad. 5K or 6 months oil changes whichever comes first. Factory installed turbochargers/superchargers apparently required and shouldn’t be swapped out. Just reading it from a legal standpoint, but APR is reputable and also loose enough it gives them leeway at their discretion to help out. Also a tune friendly dealer is always a plus. 


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## auduron (9 mo ago)

So is it accurate to say that the "piggy back" tunes are a safer bet in terms of keeping the factory (or certified pre owned) warranty intact, since you can just unplug it, but has less HP/Torque gains than a "true" tune?


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## OhioSpyderman (Jul 21, 2021)

With only what I've read here, I'd say that is a very fair assessment...

Bob.


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

auduron said:


> So is it accurate to say that the "piggy back" tunes are a safer bet in terms of keeping the factory (or certified pre owned) warranty intact, since you can just unplug it, but has less HP/Torque gains than a "true" tune?


Yes because you can disconnect at service. Now, a tune doesn’t necessarily mean you’ve voided warranty. If you tune your vehicle and the dealership scans the car, the VW mothership will see the change to the ECU and flag your vehicle with the code TD1. A TD1 flag doesn’t negate your warranty and VW still has to prove the tune caused the failure. If you flash the ECU to return to stock, you still get flagged because there is a counter that records the flahses performed and that can’t be defeated. So no more being slick. 

Here’s a quick video going over a TD1 flag. 







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## OhioSpyderman (Jul 21, 2021)

Watched the whole video.
Very informative. Thank You.

My take from this is, other than the ability to easily go back to a stock tune with UniTronic, anytime you apply a tune, "Mom" know's it 

Bob.


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## Volkswagens-for-life (Jun 24, 2013)

auduron said:


> So is it accurate to say that the "piggy back" tunes are a safer bet in terms of keeping the factory (or certified pre owned) warranty intact, since you can just unplug it, but has less HP/Torque gains than a "true" tune?


Yep


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

Yep Mom knows


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## seanmcd72 (May 14, 2008)

auduron said:


> Can anyone elaborate on the power differences between the "true" tune (APR) vs the "piggy back" tune (Berger & NEUSPEED)?


With a piggy back - it's technically lying to or tricking the ECU, making it think it should add more timing or boost at certain times. A true tune is literally rewriting the code that the ECU uses. The only thing "safer" about a piggyback device is that it MOST LIKELY won't void your warranty as long as you remove all evidence of it before the dealer works on the car.


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## Volkswagens-for-life (Jun 24, 2013)

seanmcd72 said:


> With a piggy back - it's technically lying to or tricking the ECU, making it think it should add more timing or boost at certain times. A true tune is literally rewriting the code that the ECU uses. The only thing "safer" about a piggyback device is that it MOST LIKELY won't void your warranty as long as you remove all evidence of it before the dealer works on the car.


Spot-on


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