# For the REVO STG III K04 guys............



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

I was just stumbling around the internet still trying to figure out my insanely RICH condition on my car when I went to REVO's revised website and read through some of their software. I've been K04 for a while now and have the very early beta version of the K04 file on my car and have not had it reflashed lately or checked for new versions.

But here's the issue. I've been fighting about the software being my back-lying issues behind the clouds of black unburned fuel and rich fault with fuel trims or -25% at idle. I've been down the whole blown HPFP seal line before as I beta test HPFPs for a company. I've had probably 6 HPFPs in my car during the past year that I have been fighting this fault and all have the exact same results and readings. I've ran anything from brand new out-of-the box OEM to KMD to the beta units and still -25% at idle from first start-up. In cold weather this past winter, the car was so rich it would stall out upon first start-up. 

Now reading on REVO's new website they list the required injectors for the STG III K04 file as S3 injectors. Now back when I got my flash there was a RS4 injector file ONLY! I was fighting with them to write me a S3 file since the injectors is designed for the FSI engine anyways......but it was made clear there would be no file made for me with those components. Now that the file is out there for it, I'm looking for those who are still running the old RS4 injector file and a K04 to see what your car is doing.

Maybe it's just my car or my software, but seems sketchy. I know it's nothing mechanical because I check the engine every 20K and am now at 148K and running fine other than being rich. I just want my full power potential out of my setup!!

-J. Hines

Also, I'm searching for a set of new/cared for S3 injectors to switch over to Unitronics. So if you have some for sale, let me know!


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

I'm pretty sure the Revo's website is geared toward its global audience and not to the NA market, which would explain why it states S3 injectors.  AFAIK, Revo does not and will not offer a ko4 tune for the s3 injectors in NA. Why? Well that's the million dollar question. 

and check golfmkv classifieds, there is a guy sellling new s3 injectors for like $250. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

brekdown29 said:


> AFAIK, Revo does not and will not offer a ko4 tune for the s3 injectors in NA. Why? Well that's the million dollar question.



When we were orginaly developing the stage 3 KO4 software for North America there was no over the counter source for S3 injectors. You were forced to import them yourself or find one of only a few suppliers at the time stocking them. Choosing Rs4 injectors allowed you to walk into any Audi dealer and some VW dealers who had access to Audi parts to get them for you next day. 

Since then the TTS has become available here but we already had 100s of cars running RS4 injectors, switching injectors would cause too much confusion for our customers, dealers and even potential future owners of vehicles who may not know which injectors were in the car. Basically it would just create a whole lot of problems that don't need to exist since the current injector offerings are perfect fine. 

There are no S3 injector files available for any application in the US/Canada.


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

Sure that all makes sense but more options are always better than less options. Why not give future customers in the states and Canada the option to run a ko4 file utilizing either injector setup? There wouldn't be any impact on current customers. And since you guys already have a file made to run on s3 injectors there is no additional expense to revo.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

brekdown29 said:


> Sure that all makes sense but more options are always better than less options. Why not give future customers in the states and Canada the option to run a ko4 file utilizing either injector setup? There wouldn't be any impact on current customers. And since you guys already have a file made to run on s3 injectors there is no additional expense to revo.


There is no reason to run S3 injectors. The Rs4 injectors work 100% fine.

The reason we do not want to switch now is because there are too many cars that are running the current injectors. If one of those cars gets sold they may not understand there were two options, the only way for them to figure it out is to take it a part. It simply is not worth the hassle. Someone may think they have the one injectors and have the file for an other and then spend time chasing a problem that could have been prevented by just not making it a choice.


There is nothing to be gained from running different injectors only hassles that customers would have to deal with and support nightmare for our dealers and even ourselves. Options would actually create problems here so no more of them is not always better. 


Also none of the files are built so yes it would be a great expense to create them for this market. A car in Spain does not have the same ID as one in the uK which does not have the same one as the US. There are different fuels and there are different conditions that would need to be tuned for.


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

Thx for the explanation.


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

jhines_06gli said:


> I was just stumbling around the internet still trying to figure out my insanely RICH condition on my car when I went to REVO's revised website and read through some of their software. I've been K04 for a while now and have the very early beta version of the K04 file on my car and have not had it reflashed lately or checked for new versions.
> 
> But here's the issue. I've been fighting about the software being my back-lying issues behind the clouds of black unburned fuel and rich fault with fuel trims or -25% at idle. I've been down the whole blown HPFP seal line before as I beta test HPFPs for a company. I've had probably 6 HPFPs in my car during the past year that I have been fighting this fault and all have the exact same results and readings. I've ran anything from brand new out-of-the box OEM to KMD to the beta units and still -25% at idle from first start-up. In cold weather this past winter, the car was so rich it would stall out upon first start-up.
> 
> ...



Chris - I have this same setup and have this same *EXACT EXACT EXACT EXACT EXACT EXACT *problem. 

And I belive *staulkor *who also has this same setup also has the EXACT problem as described above too and I have seen at least 1 other thread with a 4th user with the same EXACT problem.

I have contacted you before and you mention the HPFP seal and so forth but it looks like this is not the case as *jhines_06gli* has already tried changing his HPFP serveral times.

Also my HPFP was 100% BRAND NEW from APR so I would like to think that the similarity between all of us having the EXACT SAME problem is something related to the software or RS4 injectors and not the HPFP since we all have different brands rebuilt HPFP and some are USED and NEW, (and most likely different year cars) but we all have 1 thing in common, which is the software and injectors and the TOO RICH AT IDLE code

In no way am I blaming the software or injectors, but could REVO please look into this issue? It's definately not a rare occurance for the revo k04 users in the US with RS4 injectors.

I love my REVO software and have dynoed my k04 setup at 311whp and 298ft-lbs but it just sucks that I have a CEL on every 200 miles, my car stall every winter if i dont keep the tach at 2000rpms for 30 seconds before it can idle properly and that my gas milage in the city has dropped from 25-26 (REVO stage 2 and 2+) to 20-23mpg ever since i went to the stage 3 setup (my commute stayed EXACTLY the same and driving habits are the same since there's too many lights and small side streets to beat on my car)


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

While we are aware that there are some users with similar issues it does not mean the cause is the same or even that the majority has the same problems.

A rich at idle code can be caused by any number of things including and mostly commonly on these vehicles a HPFP with fuel leaking past the piston seal. Brand is not something that makes you immune to this as someone running a 100% factory pump can still have this problem. Even a dirty throttle body could cause problems that result in a rich at idle code as well as idle issues.

I don't even recall the last time someone actually contacted us reporting they were having these issues. 

We are looking into updating our stage 3,4 and beyond files in the future, some of it will be to address existing issues with cold starts. But just know now that it doesn't mean your problems will go away because not every problem is software.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Do you guys want my car to play with and use to figure out the issue? I'm 3 hours away only in Charlotte, NC. I got tired of being told to change out my HPFP when I have done so 6/7 times with different NEW units. That's why I have stopped contacting people about my issue. 

I just figured I'd give it one last shot before getting S3 injectors and switching to Unitronics. I have loved the aggressive nature of the REVO files all the way from STG I up. But I'm just tired of the black smoke every time I leave a stop light or punch it after cruising a while. And the MIL doesn't bother me much when I know it's something stupid causing it like EVAP. But when it's my fuel mixture(being -27%), it's a little different. So I'm just making a last ditch effort to keep REVO, but if this source comes through on my S3 injectors for the right price, then I'll be headed to Unitronics.

I know I've talked to several of the software companies and even the K04 owners and compared logs and we have the same basic log patterns and reaction to different things. But we all share the EXACT same fault that didn't occur until we went K04 and RS4 injectors. I have ran the EXACT same KMD HPFP without the slightest issue for over 100K miles. It's not in my car any longer because of beta testing this new pump, but none-the-less, the KMD made it in my car for 30K+ miles on REVO II+ without a single hiccup. Then just weeks after going REVO STG III, I get this fault and immediately switch the HPFP for a off-the-shelf new unit from the dealer. Changed my oil and fired the car up......checked MVB 33(front O2), and same thing.....-27%. So it's not a seal in the HPFP unless 6 brand new(or aftermarker internal) units have immediately failed upon starting my car.

I'm gonna keep logging and looking for any spots I may have missed and I'll keep you guys updated. Also, if these S3 injectors come through and I go Unitronics, I'll let you guys know if I get rid of the fault then. Since I'll be running the same HPFP, that will rule that out for you guys as well so they can start looking for the deeper, real issue.
-J. Hines


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We are looking into updating our stage 3,4 and beyond files in the future, some of it will be to address existing issues with cold starts. But just know now that it doesn't mean your problems will go away because not every problem is software.


Will this happen sometime over the summer?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

brekdown29 said:


> Will this happen sometime over the summer?



Unfortunately out of my hands right now and up to vehicle availability where our engineers are for an extended period of time. I've been working on arrangements on what I can do on this end but have not been given the go ahead yet. Hopefully that will reduce the amount of time the engineers need with a car in front of them.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Unfortunately out of my hands right now and up to vehicle availability where our engineers are for an extended period of time. I've been working on arrangements on what I can do on this end but have not been given the go ahead yet. Hopefully that will reduce the amount of time the engineers need with a car in front of them.


Want my GLI? lol.......anything to help get this issue resolved before I buy S3 injectors and switch to Unitronics. I have my MKI or MKII to drive in the meantime.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> Want my GLI?


Won't do us any good, an unknown high mileage modified car is not what we need.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

So how is the GT3071r tune from REVO on the RS4 injectors? May be going that route this Winter or early next year........we'll see how the Rabbit project finishes up first. But any issues with that file? And what are the guys averaging for numbers? 

Still debating going Unitronics, just up in the air at the moment and if I'm spending money, I'd rather be making more power and found a killer setup that I can build for my own GT30r using my current injectors and all.


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

Staulkor said he fixed his too rich at idle by replacing the throttle body, I did the same this weekend and will keep this thread posted. 

Here are the threads I am referring to with other people having the same issue w/ the RS4 injectors, just for reference: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4605391-P2188-System-too-Rich-at-Idle 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5205318-Revo-Stg3-30-71


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

opcorn: 

I now my TB is bad too, (also getting too rich at idle) I have a new one sitting at home, been geographically challenged for the past year, but will be finally getting it done here in a few weeks. Will post results also.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

what are the 32 values you guys have in your car? Or what is the front O3 reading running at idle and off idle?


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

skateboy918 said:


> Staulkor said he fixed his too rich at idle by replacing the throttle body, I did the same this weekend and will keep this thread posted.
> 
> Here are the threads I am referring to with other people having the same issue w/ the RS4 injectors, just for reference:
> 
> ...


it has been 20 days since changing the throttle body, NO CODE YET, i am very happy!


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## skevo (Jul 15, 2008)

Good to hear. Thx for the feedback.


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

Awesome :thumbup: Doing mine tomorrow finally.


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## SlammedDubTT (Feb 27, 2010)

Hh.


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

1 week solid.. no codes after replacing TB. :thumbup:


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

This is a problem that I've been dealing with for 1.5 years now and man I'd love for a solution to finally get rid of my CEL. 


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4987890-I-m-sick-of-my-CEL...P0172...K04-Stage-3 

Looks like I'm going to have to just bite the bullet and get a new throttle body. Where are you guys getting yours from?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

what part number throttle body did you use? Just get a replacement that was the same p/n or go with the TSI throttle body? Pretty sure it will bolt up the same, and also found out that the RS4 throttle body has the same connector and pinout as our cars and can be made to bolt up to our intake. That's an extra 10-12mm mouth opening!!! hmmm

Don't think that is my issue, but I'm running out of options here. The only thing different about my car than what you guys have said is that I get a horrific stutter and backfire when WOT in 3/4 gears. I run up to my usual 26PSI and it holds for a few seconds then starts bucking and spits one good time. Like I'm getting sooo much fuel into the combustion chamber that it cannot burn it all off. Wierd. I replaced my plugs and it was better for the ride home, but then same thing the next day. And my plugs have only consistantly lasted about 20-25K miles ever since going K04. I drive a LOT and when I check them they are always worn like they have been working double-time or something. 

Compression is good and pistons are spotless on top. Valves are pretty good from what I can see with boroscope and everything seems alright. My oil smells "normal" considering the other 8-12 DI engine VWs I work on daily.......all smell the same basically. So I'm gonna get a T/B since mine is 6 years old and has 155K miles of HARD driving on it. Hopefully it's failing or something. But all values read correct when driving and logging......wierd. 
-J. Hines


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

I just picked up a throttle body from GolfMkV classifieds for cheap. I dont know the part number but can look it up in ETKA in a few days when I get back home.

Also, I will check blocks 32 and 33 for you when I get home (Wed).

Back when I had the too rich codes, my car would **** out A LOT of black smoke and soot whenever I got on into boost, even slightly. Ever since the new throttle body it hasnt done that *as much* but still does. I dont know if I have cold start issues because it doesnt exactly get cold in Phoenix  But when I did have problems in Maryland, I did what you described, manually help RPM ~2000 for 30 seconds and that seemed to make it not stall.

Also, the other day I had the same too rich code. Nothing has changed on the car in a long time. I pull the battery, reset revo settings, did a TBA, calibrated fuel pump, etc. and reset my DSG and the problem went away. It was only one code and hasnt come back since.

I should note that my throttle body catastrophically failed after some spirited driving about 5 miles from home. That is the only reason why I replaced it and it happened to fix the too rich codes as well. The failed throttle body was spotless (in terms of dirt).

The fact that three people have the same problem with the same software with very similar setups is concerning. If the throttle body is truely the cause of this, why have all of ours gone bad? (Do you guys run meth?)


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

no W/M for me whatsoever, just the standard REVO K04 setup


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

same here, no w/m, yet.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

No water meth.....although in the Winter my IATs go VERY low with my front mount and I build condensation up and have to drain it from my intercooler.....lol.

Only thing scaring me that it is more complex than the t/b is my 33 value of -27% at idle. Runs normal in mid RPMs while cruising.


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

jhines_06gli said:


> No water meth.....although in the Winter my IATs go VERY low with my front mount and I build condensation up and have to drain it from my intercooler.....lol.
> 
> Only thing scaring me that it is more complex than the t/b is my 33 value of -27% at idle. Runs normal in mid RPMs while cruising.


yeah mine was like that before I changed my throttle body to a new one too.

also, what is the RS4 throttle body part number? I might give it a shot


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

staulkor said:


> The fact that three people have the same problem with the same software with very similar setups is concerning. If the throttle body is truely the cause of this, why have all of ours gone bad?


Good point and one of a couple factors for why I've been holding off on doing this upgrade. I got all the hardware aside from injectors sitting in my garage. I thought revo was gonna be looking into updating their ko4 file here in NA. What's the latest on that? 

I'm holding off on the injectors until I decide to stick with revo or jump ship to Uni which uses the s3 ones.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

skateboy918 said:


> yeah mine was like that before I changed my throttle body to a new one too.
> 
> also, what is the RS4 throttle body part number? I might give it a shot


From the research I've done, the RS4 B7 throttle body will bolt up, but has to be modified to make it work. INA Motorsports has apparently got the retrofit to work for the 70mm and 75mm throttle body upgrades for the FSI guys. Mostly Audi is where I found the stuff. Also found more P2188 faults and throttle bodies being used to fix the issues!!! Still puzzles the hell out of me how this all comes together:banghead:

But here is the AudiZine link T/B failures and fixes

Got a throttle body for my GLI, so going to try and install that tonight and see what we get. If this fixes what my car is doing then all I can say is "I'll believe anything!!" To have such a f*cked up issue like my car has and blow as much smoke and buck as bad as it does......if that is caused by a throttle body that adapts fine and throws no faults, then damn. Brings a whole new chapter into diagnosing these damn cars!!
-J. Hines

Seems the Audi guys put the HP number of 300-350 for breaking the throttle bodies. One guy over on there side was on his 3rd at the time of the thread over a year ago!!! Guessing I'll see the plate cracked right around the center where it attaches to the rod. That would sorta explain a little bit more to me, but still confusing as hell!!


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Well finished swapping throttle bodies and buttoning car back up when I got to the shop this AM. Cleared codes and adapted throttle body and IMRC motor and started running tests for readiness status. Passed everything for the first time in a LONG time. But still a little concerned with the 33 values bouncing between 16.2% and 19.5% at idle. But the car never got fully warmed up and into closed loop, so hopefully that has something to do with it. We'll know on the way home I guess. 
FINGERS CROSSED!!!!
-J. Hines

Also get to see the change with the 140BAR rail valve in. Big improvement over the OE valve that I never got around to replacing....lol


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Success?*

Well I drove the car home tonight.....it's about a 62 miles commute, so reset the light at work before leaving. Still a little hiccup when under heavy accel, but it's about time for some new plugs. Going to go a step down in heat range again and see if that helps some too. 

But after that highway drive home, my readings are spot on!! Granted I did change the oil this AM, but was no unusual gas smells or anything....just the normal FSI smells. 

Here's MVB 32, 33 and 14 for your viewing.................









-J. Hines


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

Your plugs are probably cooked...don't forget to readapt again after plugs just for good measure. The 7e's like to be ran around .28 if memory serves correctly

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Yea....I was going to step back to 7Es. Usually gap them around 30-32, but I'm running more boost and more fuel now, so I may try closing the gap to 28-30.
Thanks,
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

You might want to check your injectors IMO..


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> You might want to check your injectors IMO..


Check them for what? 
-The mS is spot on on all 4 with no deviation between them. 
-The cylinders are completely clean with no build-up on pistons which typically means there is minimal buildup on injector tip. 
-The plugs are relatively clean, just have been fouled by fuel for a long time, so they will be replaced today. 
-Did a fuel pressure leakdown test to make sure I don't have an injector sticking....passed that.

The intake will be coming off in 5K when I hit 160K miles for routine checking/cleaning of valves and new injector seals as well as my HPFP check/follower service. 

But as for checking the injectors, what else can I check with them? If there is an issue with injectors, it's ALL 4 because all 4 cylinders were doing the same thing and the timing retard values were the same for all 4 when the car was acting up.
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Check them for what?
> -The mS is spot on on all 4 with no deviation between them.
> -The cylinders are completely clean with no build-up on pistons which typically means there is minimal buildup on injector tip.
> -The plugs are relatively clean, just have been fouled by fuel for a long time, so they will be replaced today.
> ...


I am simply suggesting this cause from what i have seen FSI injectors tend to "leak".And you won't find that from injector timing, cause at idle the FSI injectors are operating at the lowest injector time
between 0.55 ms and 0.71 ms.A leaking injector(s) would show as the ECU pulling fuel, but without a
way to reduce the injection time even further, you and up with a "rich state".

You can verify that by simply looking at your lambda adaptation value at block 001 where you will see
the ECU pulling fuel at high negative values especially right after cold start.When my cylinder 2 plug was fouled, changing the #2 injector solved the issue, so checking your plugs for fouling might be a
good place to start....


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> I am simply suggesting this cause from what i have seen FSI injectors tend to "leak".And you won't find that from injector timing, cause at idle the FSI injectors are operating at the lowest injector time
> between 0.55 ms and 0.71 ms.A leaking injector(s) would show as the ECU pulling fuel, but without a
> way to reduce the injection time even further, you and up with a "rich state".
> 
> ...



My lambda values after replacing and adapting throttle body and changing rail valve and oil is posted on the last page. Drove home and lambda was down to -3.1%. Best it's been since way back when I was Stg. 1 REVO with intake and catback!!! As for the injectors......by doing the fuel pressure residual holding test, I checked the injectors when not active to see if the pintle was staying cracked open and leaking fuel......by VW standards it passed, so hopefully they are good. All seems well and feels like I gained 10-15hp so far. Throttle response is much smoother and hopefully after plugs I'll no longer have misfires above 20PSI. Regardless, the wideband is getting completed this weekend so I can monitor live data ALL the time under all conditions without having to log it.
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> My lambda values after replacing and adapting throttle body and changing rail valve and oil is posted on the last page. Drove home and lambda was down to -3.1%. Best it's been since way back when I was Stg. 1 REVO with intake and catback!!! As for the injectors......by doing the fuel pressure residual holding test, I checked the injectors when not active to see if the pintle was staying cracked open and leaking fuel......by VW standards it passed, so hopefully they are good. All seems well and feels like I gained 10-15hp so far. Throttle response is much smoother and hopefully after plugs I'll no longer have misfires above 20PSI. Regardless, the wideband is getting completed this weekend so I can monitor live data ALL the time under all conditions without having to log it.
> -J. Hines



Do you have the testing procedure somewhere i could have a look at it ?

What exactly are the VW standards ?My rail pressure drops pretty quick but i have
seen cars that do that and others that don't...


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Cannot really send you a direct link to the page as it is security-protected by the VW servers. So you must have login rights to view the stuff, but here is the literature. The VAG 1318 is a fuel pressure gauge in line with the main supply line to the engine. In our case, it hooks up at the quick-connects by the pass. firewall. All you are really checking is that when you shut the car off, does the fuel stay pressurized in the system? Or does it leak off and go somewhere. They never tell you through this that the injectors can be faulty and cause pressure to drop below 3.0BAR, but it can and is most likely cause.....especially on gummed up, high mileage FSI cars and newer TSI engines.

Basically if you drop below the 3.5BAR, then you have a bad rail pressure retention valve, bad HPFP(leaking internally) or leaking injectors. In my case, I had 6.4BAR with engine running, shut it off and waited 10 minutes and it dropped to 5.1BAR. 

But here is the info from the VW repair manuals on the procedure:

Residual Pressure 

l Fuel pressure OK and the -VAG 1318- is still connected. Checking fuel pressure, refer to → Chapter „Fuel Pressure“. 
– Switch the ignition on and off until the fuel pressure on the -VAG 1318- no longer rises. 
– Read off the fuel pressure on the -VAG 1318-. 
l Specified value: 3.5 to 5.0 bar. 
– Watch the pressure drop on the -VAG 1318-. 
l After 10 minutes the pressure must not drop below a 3.0 bar decrease. 
If the pressure drops further 
– Switch the ignition on and off until the fuel pressure on the -VAG 1318- no longer rises. 

– Immediately close the shut off valve on the -VAG 1318-. Lever will then point in position -B-. 
If Pressure Drops Again 
– Check the fuel pipe to high pressure pump for leaks. 
If no malfunction can be found: 
– Replace the high pressure pump. Refer to → Chapter „High Pressure Pump“. 
If Pressure No Longer Drops Now 
– Check the fuel line to fuel filter for leaks. 
If no malfunctions are found in the fuel line: 

– Check the check valve in the fuel delivery unit. Connect the -VAG 1318- with the -VAG 1318/17- between the fuel filter and fuel supply line. 
– Open the shut off valve on the -VAG 1318-. The lever points in the direction of flow. 
– Switch the ignition on and off until the fuel pressure on the -VAG 1318- no longer rises. 
– Read off the fuel pressure on the -VAG 1318-. 
l Specified value: 3.5 to 5.0 bar. 

– After the pressure has built up, immediately close the shut off valve on the -VAG 1318-. 
– Watch the pressure drop on the -VAG 1318-. 
l After 10 minutes the pressure must not drop below a 3.0 bar decrease. 
If the pressure drops: 
– Check valve in the fuel pump is faulty, replace the fuel delivery unit. Refer to → Chapter „Fuel Delivery Unit“. 
If the pressure does not drop: 
– Pressure relief valve in the fuel filter is malfunctioning, replace the fuel filter.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Cannot really send you a direct link to the page as it is security-protected by the VW servers. So you must have login rights to view the stuff, but here is the literature. The VAG 1318 is a fuel pressure gauge in line with the main supply line to the engine. In our case, it hooks up at the quick-connects by the pass. firewall. All you are really checking is that when you shut the car off, does the fuel stay pressurized in the system? Or does it leak off and go somewhere. They never tell you through this that the injectors can be faulty and cause pressure to drop below 3.0BAR, but it can and is most likely cause.....especially on gummed up, high mileage FSI cars and newer TSI engines.
> 
> Basically if you drop below the 3.5BAR, then you have a bad rail pressure retention valve, bad HPFP(leaking internally) or leaking injectors. In my case, I had 6.4BAR with engine running, shut it off and waited 10 minutes and it dropped to 5.1BAR.
> 
> ...


Hmmm ok maybe i misunderstood what you were saying.....but isn't our working rail pressure
at 49.5 bar ??The 6.4 bar you measured are in the low pressure system, and matches the
rating on the fuel filter.

When i was talking about my rail pressure falling i was referring to the 49.5 [email protected] idle, that
gradually falls after engine shut off.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> Hmmm ok maybe i misunderstood what you were saying.....but isn't our working rail pressure
> at 49.5 bar ??The 6.4 bar you measured are in the low pressure system, and matches the
> rating on the fuel filter.
> 
> ...


The high side of the fuel system retained by the bleed valve. But that valve is a shut-off safety switch for the rail. It only should open when it exceeds 130BAR. Unless you have a valve that got a piece of trash or something in it, but seems like you would see that effect when it's running under heavy load, not at "engine off". But you are correct with the 50BAR holding pressure of the rail when off. Typically that's what VW told us the rail should stay at.....although we are not supposed to check that manually........we just have to go off what the rail pressure sensor is reading with a scan tool. So I've never seen a gauge reading from the rail itself. 

What issues are you having? Hard-start or start-up misfires?
-J. H?ines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> The high side of the fuel system retained by the bleed valve. But that valve is a shut-off safety switch for the rail. It only should open when it exceeds 130BAR. Unless you have a valve that got a piece of trash or something in it, but seems like you would see that effect when it's running under heavy load, not at "engine off". But you are correct with the 50BAR holding pressure of the rail when off. Typically that's what VW told us the rail should stay at.....although we are not supposed to check that manually........we just have to go off what the rail pressure sensor is reading with a scan tool. So I've never seen a gauge reading from the rail itself.
> 
> What issues are you having? Hard-start or start-up misfires?
> -J. H?ines


The reason i talked about the high pressure system and the residual pressure after shut off
is the fact injector leaking might as well be the reason for the (excessive) reduction.
This is why i asked you for VW procedures and standards, cause i haven't run into any
high pressure reduction standards and any limit below which a possible injector leak
is a possibility.As i said i have seen cars that hold pressure, and cars that don't.However
none of them had the injectors changed and retested to see if that was the cause for the
rapid reduction.

You could easily do the test using VCDS after shutting off engine and measuring the
time it takes to reach the lowest pressure value.

On another note, remember a leaking injector isn't easy to diagnose epsecially on the FSI.
One way as i said is to check the plugs for fouling, which was my case.Another way is to
change them all and hope for the best...Using the wideband isn't gonna do any good
(as it doesn't in the ECU's case) cause it "sees" the resulting fuel from all the cylinders
reaching the exhaust, and cannot discriminate between cyl 1, cyl 2 etc...So you might have
1 or 2 injectors leaking, and the car seeing a rich state, while the other 2 cylinders might be seeing
a lean state cause of the overall fuel being pulled from what the O2 sensor sees.

The way i see it that could also explain misfires at high boost.I used to get that and found plug
gapping helped, but this is not the solution to an existing issue....


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Leaking injector or "mis-spraying" injector would explain the issue. I've dealt with that, but caused issues across the whole RPM band in that one cylinder. Usually you can monitor it through the ignition retard MVB(20 I believe). By watching this, I could see that all 4 of my cylinders would do the exact same thing as I climbed in RPM and boost. If I had one cylinder pulling a lot more time than the rest because of an injector(puddling fuel), then it would seem a lot more likely. As I said, the intake will be off in 5K miles, which it doesn't take me long at all to put 5K on the car!! So I'll check the spray patterns then while i clean everything up. 

As for the plugs, mine too hold their gap. But I have had everything set at 32, now I'm going to close it up a little and make the spark hotter since I increased my boost and my fuel pressure. I need to get a solid log with new plugs and see what my lambda values and fuel pressures are actually at. But from driving this morning, the throttle body REALLY helped!!! Or it's just a freak accident that everything got a lot better after replacing it and doing a few maint. items.
-J. Hines

On the topic of spark plugs.......is anyone running a one-step colder plug than OEM? OEM is a heat range 7, just curious if anyone that is running high boost has stepped it down? I've had pretty good luck with the OE plugs so far when my car was running right, so hopefully they'll be back to lasting at least 20-30K miles!!


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Leaking injector or "mis-spraying" injector would explain the issue. I've dealt with that, but caused issues across the whole RPM band in that one cylinder. Usually you can monitor it through the ignition retard MVB(20 I believe). By watching this, I could see that all 4 of my cylinders would do the exact same thing as I climbed in RPM and boost. If I had one cylinder pulling a lot more time than the rest because of an injector(puddling fuel), then it would seem a lot more likely. As I said, the intake will be off in 5K miles, which it doesn't take me long at all to put 5K on the car!! So I'll check the spray patterns then while i clean everything up.
> 
> As for the plugs, mine too hold their gap. But I have had everything set at 32, now I'm going to close it up a little and make the spark hotter since I increased my boost and my fuel pressure. I need to get a solid log with new plugs and see what my lambda values and fuel pressures are actually at. But from driving this morning, the throttle body REALLY helped!!! Or it's just a freak accident that everything got a lot better after replacing it and doing a few maint. items.
> -J. Hines
> ...


Well this was interesting thread, as I have a K04 installed, but am still on stock fueling with Revo Stg 2 tune. Was on fence to go S3 injectors and Uni tune, or stay with Revo and install RS4 injectors. So engine more or less running correctly now with the RS4's? No bad rich conditions?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Well this was interesting thread, as I have a K04 installed, but am still on stock fueling with Revo Stg 2 tune. Was on fence to go S3 injectors and Uni tune, or stay with Revo and install RS4 injectors. So engine more or less running correctly now with the RS4's? No bad rich conditions?


No more rich right now......-3.1%. Hopefully new plugs with gap closed a little for a hotter spark will go in tomorrow AM. That should correct my high RPM stumble, but MIL off all week, so hopefully it's solved. Car feels AWESOME!!!!


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> No more rich right now......-3.1%. Hopefully new plugs with gap closed a little for a hotter spark will go in tomorrow AM. That should correct my high RPM stumble, but MIL off all week, so hopefully it's solved. Car feels AWESOME!!!!


Congrats! I was rooting for you man, lol.

Sent from my SCH-I510


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> No more rich right now......-3.1%. Hopefully new plugs with gap closed a little for a hotter spark will go in tomorrow AM. That should correct my high RPM stumble, but MIL off all week, so hopefully it's solved. Car feels AWESOME!!!!


That's great news. What do you run boost/timing/fuel settings at with the K04 tune - the normal 6-4-9 more or less?


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> No more rich right now......-3.1%. Hopefully new plugs with gap closed a little for a hotter spark will go in tomorrow AM. That should correct my high RPM stumble, but MIL off all week, so hopefully it's solved. Car feels AWESOME!!!!


-3.1% shows the car is still pulling fuel, indicating a rich condition.

It may not be enough to trigger a CEL but still shows everything isn't perfect.

You were just used to running so rich, you are presently satisfied with
what you are getting.

There is stll work to be done.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

GolfRS said:


> -3.1% shows the car is still pulling fuel, indicating a rich condition.
> 
> It may not be enough to trigger a CEL but still shows everything isn't perfect.
> 
> ...


-3.1 @ PT is not bad its about normal with RS4 injectors. +/- 20 triggers CEL and running that rich is gonna cause knock / timing pull.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

rracerguy717 said:


> -3.1 @ PT is not bad its about normal with RS4 injectors. +/- 20 triggers CEL and running that rich is gonna cause knock / timing pull.


So do these injectors normally idle a little rich even with everything OK?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

bostonaudi1 said:


> So do these injectors normally idle a little rich even with everything OK?


My car dosnt I would go with the results of people running the same sw as the OP. IMO if the ECU is cracking open the TB to help control fuel trims then its running to rich. My car @ idle has 24" of vacuem rock steady smooth no hunting for idle . Bob G


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

*help!*

I have the same problems! Im k04. Revo stage 3 rs4 injectors all bolt-ons bsh race catch can kmd hpfp etc... so my car stalls in the winter smokes like hell [email protected] a stop light it'll just ooze out smoke (this is a rare occurance but concerned) im no mechanic appreciate any help! O and my settings are 9-6-9 thanks :beer:


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> -3.1% shows the car is still pulling fuel, indicating a rich condition.
> 
> It may not be enough to trigger a CEL but still shows everything isn't perfect.
> 
> ...


 
-3% absolutely within spec, a bone stock car that rolled off the assembly line this morning wouldn't even be looked at for having -3% fuel trims. + or - 10% Vw won't even bat an eye at. 

In fact VW even says if your fuel trims don't move from 0 something is broken.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> I have the same problems! Im k04. Revo stage 3 rs4 injectors all bolt-ons bsh race catch can kmd hpfp etc... so my car stalls in the winter smokes like hell [email protected] a stop light it'll just ooze out smoke (this is a rare occurance but concerned) im no mechanic appreciate any help! O and my settings are 9-6-9 thanks :beer:


 Basically you have my car. I'm K04 REVO Stg III, RS4 injectors, BSH race VTA can, KMD follower, was KMD HPFP(Now prototype HPFP). In cold months my car stalled out on cold-start, blew black smoke at any touch of the throttle. 

I just replaced the throttle body......mine had no cracks, no carbon line and I don't use W/M. Guess it just died out. It would adapt fine every time, passed the sweep test every time and everything. But after replacing the throttle body, my car stays right at -3.1% and only blows black smoke when in heavy accel. MVB 107 now runs and passes every time which it hasn't done since I went REVO STG II way back when!! Only issue I had after throttle body was a hard stutter at high boost and high RPM pulls. Felt like a misfire, but would not register. I put new OE plugs in it and closed the gap down to 26 and it's a beast now. No issues since then.....so hopefully it'll be good through the Winter while I make decisions on going bigger. 
-J. Hines 

P.S. Check your throttle body and let us know what the part number is. If you have the early one then I'd def. say it's bad. The Audi BT guys are putting a hp number of about 300-350 on our throttle bodies. After that they seem to sh*t out. INA Motorsports has a fix for the issue. If I go through another throttle body I'll be going that route and getting the RS4 throttle body built up.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> -3% absolutely within spec, a bone stock car that rolled off the assembly line this morning wouldn't even be looked at for having -3% fuel trims. + or - 10% Vw won't even bat an eye at.
> 
> In fact VW even says if your fuel trims don't move from 0 something is broken.


 Deviating from 0 means the car's ECU sees something through the sensors (the MAF or
O2 sensor for example) and is trying to compensate for it.
Yes VW has set a limit of -+24% to initiate a CEL but that doesn't mean running
at -+22% is ok.I wouldn't even consider the 10% example you gave as "within spec".

This is like you telling all of us that a bad injector that causes a rich condition is OK
to have, simply because the ECU might be "trying" to compensate for it, if that
compensation is at -10% .Or that a bad MAF that is causing trims to go crazy is ok to use cause if it deviates "only" 10% then it's ok....Or a bad O2 sensor that might also effect trims is also ok.
And what about a vacuum leak ??

Trims can ( and should) be used for diagnostic purposes, they are not just pretty numbers in VCDS.
You stating 10% is normal (and VW also approves it) is ridiculous. :screwy:

One of these days Chris you have to learn to stop worrying about how people are gonna pick up the
phone, call "support" and bust your balls cause they think something might not be right.Cause it might as well NOT BE.Giving false reassurances isn't gonna deter people from looking out for
their cars.This is (or was...whatever) your job.Get over it....


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS, on this matter you couldn't be more wrong. Just stop now.

-3% fuel trims is 100% acceptable by VW, by us and by any other tuner on the planet. 

If you don't consider +-10% to be in spec then you need to put a call into Bosch, the engineers who designed your engine, and the engineers who tuned it for VW, as well as VWs tech support in whatever country you are in because this is what THEY say.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> GolfRS, on this matter you couldn't be more wrong. Just stop now.
> 
> -3% fuel trims is 100% acceptable by VW, by us and by any other tuner on the planet.
> 
> If you don't consider +-10% to be in spec then you need to put a call into Bosch, the engineers who designed your engine, and the engineers who tuned it for VW, as well as VWs tech support in whatever country you are in because this is what THEY say.


 As far as VW is concerned, the failing flaps actuators were also "acceptable", and they
even tried to cover up with a flash, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't change them.

As far as VW is concerned a failing cam follower is also "acceptable" or they would have
found out a solution around it.But guess what Chris...newsflash...cam followers fail BAD.

So to your -3% argument i say BS.A -+3% fuel trim might as well indicate a vacuum leak,
a bad injector, a failing MAF, a failing O2 sensor and the list goes on...Are you suggesting
people rely on your professional opinion, and close their eyes to a possible existing issue ?

Believe me if i lived in the U.S. and had decided to go Revo, you would be the last
person i would call for.... "SUPPORT"...And believe me i am not alone on this one....


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> As far as VW is concerned, the failing flaps actuators were also "acceptable", and they
> even tried to cover up with a flash, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't change them.
> 
> As far as VW is concerned a failing cam follower is also "acceptable" or they would have
> ...


 Alright.......enough with the back and forth....lol This thread was about the failing throttle body issues and we have gotten to the bottom of that. Still don't know what exactly failed. From the looks of the inside of the old throttle body(where the gears are), I would say moisture got somewhere because there is some brown dust on the cover that looks a lot like rust dust. But bottom line is the car is fixed......well at least this issue. Now just keep driving til the next issue raises it's ugly head. 

As for the fuel trims, I'll put in my $.02 and leave it at that. Those values in MVB 33 that you are looking at for the fuel trims of the front O2 are a live-data reading of the "leftovers" of combustion. 0.00% being a PERFECT operating engine, the values should be constantly changing around that 0.00% when the vehicle is operating in closed loop. Now what VW told us in the engine diagnostics class(not that everything they say is 100% true) was that you have a normal operating window of +3/-3% that is acceptable baseline for a good engine. By good engine, that means the "Suck/Squeeze/Bang/Blow" components needed for combustion are all there and working properly. By the +3/-3, that means you should constantly see MVB 33(Front O2) switching between ranges of +3 and -3 on a rapid basis at idle. That means the ECM is doing constant adjustments to keep the fuel trims as close to possible as it can. Every single stroke and every single cylinder will create a different amount of C0/C02/O2/N2/etc. because each cylinder gets a different variation of air coming in and has a different variation of air going out. The MVB is just saying that the O2 is switching telling the ECM to do what it needs to in order to keep the values switching around 0.00% to keep a constant value. No combustion in an engine is the same......it's a constantly changing cycle that produces an "average" that we can monitor to see what our engine is doing on average and what we need to do in order to get it closer to perfect if there is an issue. 

One FSI may switch around -0.08% and +1.2% while in a different atmosphere or different weather condition the SAME EXACT car might switch between -3.1% and +2.8%. The numbers mean nothing as long as they are switching back and forth and are withing the bottom end of the scale. All the MIL is there for is a legal obligation!!! The MIL MUST eliminate whenever the amount of exhaust emissions produced by the car exceeds 150% the amount mandated for the vehicle class by the EPA/Federal DMV. 
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Alright.......enough with the back and forth....lol This thread was about the failing throttle body issues and we have gotten to the bottom of that. Still don't know what exactly failed. From the looks of the inside of the old throttle body(where the gears are), I would say moisture got somewhere because there is some brown dust on the cover that looks a lot like rust dust. But bottom line is the car is fixed......well at least this issue. Now just keep driving til the next issue raises it's ugly head.
> 
> As for the fuel trims, I'll put in my $.02 and leave it at that. Those values in MVB 33 that you are looking at for the fuel trims of the front O2 are a live-data reading of the "leftovers" of combustion. 0.00% being a PERFECT operating engine, the values should be constantly changing around that 0.00% when the vehicle is operating in closed loop. Now what VW told us in the engine diagnostics class(not that everything they say is 100% true) was that you have a normal operating window of +3/-3% that is acceptable baseline for a good engine. By good engine, that means the "Suck/Squeeze/Bang/Blow" components needed for combustion are all there and working properly. By the +3/-3, that means you should constantly see MVB 33(Front O2) switching between ranges of +3 and -3 on a rapid basis at idle. That means the ECM is doing constant adjustments to keep the fuel trims as close to possible as it can. Every single stroke and every single cylinder will create a different amount of C0/C02/O2/N2/etc. because each cylinder gets a different variation of air coming in and has a different variation of air going out. The MVB is just saying that the O2 is switching telling the ECM to do what it needs to in order to keep the values switching around 0.00% to keep a constant value. No combustion in an engine is the same......it's a constantly changing cycle that produces an "average" that we can monitor to see what our engine is doing on average and what we need to do in order to get it closer to perfect if there is an issue.
> 
> ...


 What both you and Chris are not taking into account when talking about trims and their meaning is that you are both talking about "normal" operating conditions, which indeed vary between engines,
hence the "normal" deviation, but you fail to mention what happens when a hardware failure like those i mentioned above occurs.In that sense, a car may go from +-0.08 to +-3%, but what heppens when the same deviation occurs with the ECU compensating for a bad MAF ?Or a leaking injector ?
Accepting standards is ok when you are talking about normal operating conditions, but to use such
a generalization, you would first have to made sure the engine is also running as it should.

A leaking injector might, and might not cause severe enough engine malfunction to
force someone to check for hardware failure.The same goes for a failing TB, a bad O2 sensor etc.
Trims are a good way to monitor the engine and look out for possible and upcoming failures.
I was battling with a bad idle for the best of 50K miles that turned out to be a failing cam chain
tensioner.All that time my trims were within spec.Does that mean my engine was running OK ?

As i said above the trims are the ECU's opinion on how the engine is running.You might be
within whatever specs the techs think are "normal" but that doesn't mean your engine is
running fine.A deviation (especially when there was none before, or at least not by that much)
is a sign of a change in the engine's function, and IMO is not something one should leave
without investigating further.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> What both you and Chris are not taking into account ......


 What you are not taking into account is that J and I both actually know what we are talking about.

I'm sorry but you are so off base on your assumptions on fuel trims and you are so stubborn as usual that you will never understand this. There is no point in continuing, beyond saying please stop trying to make the forum members dumber.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> What you are not taking into account is that J and I both actually know what we are talking about.
> 
> I'm sorry but you are so off base on your assumptions on fuel trims and you are so stubborn as usual that you will never understand this. There is no point in continuing, beyond saying please stop trying to make the forum members dumber.


 Once again this is your answer to everything coming your way..."I know what i'm talking about...you don't".

Exactly WHO certified that about you ??

Yourself ?? LOL

If you don't have an answer, it's better not to answer at all.You protect your integrity better that way...


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

This thread WAS good... :facepalm:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

joeyvdubGLI said:


> This thread WAS good... :facepalm:


 haha......just waiting for the lockdown. But yes, it started out VERY informative. Everyone just take notes of the good points.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Exactly WHO certified that about you ??


 

Depending on which engine/Vehicle I have factory training with both VW and Audi. Your training and certification comes from?

Aside from all that i have worked on thousands of VWs/Audis over the last 10+ years. Maybe a small handful have had fuel trims under 3% on a regular basis. Even if i was never trained or never worked along the side of the factory engineers that VW/Audi send to dealers to work with techs just in experience alone I am well a head of you on this matter and can say that you are off base in your assumptions that a fuel trim of -3% is bad. 


Bottom line you don't have a clue, your unfortunate need to be wrong on every topic you become involved in just confuses people and derails the thread from being further helpful to anyone. I'm sorry that you cannot handle being told (again and again and again) that you are way off base. I suggest actually doing some studying on the topics you attempt to get involved with, it will prevent me and others from constantly having to tell you that you're wrong. 


Go scan the next 10 VWs you see and let us know what the fuel trims are, you'll be shocked but I won't be.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Depending on which engine/Vehicle I have factory training with both VW and Audi. Your training and certification comes from?
> 
> Aside from all that i have worked on thousands of VWs/Audis over the last 10+ years. Maybe a small handful have had fuel trims under 3% on a regular basis. Even if i was never trained or never worked along the side of the factory engineers that VW/Audi send to dealers to work with techs just in experience alone I am well a head of you on this matter and can say that you are off base in your assumptions that a fuel trim of -3% is bad.
> 
> ...


 Once again you fail to answer my question.

You have a car that under "standard operating conditions" would show a 0.5% trim.
That car suddenly shows a -3% deviation.According to you, this is "within spec", and
no one should take notice.The following day(s) the car experiences an engine failure
due to a failed injector.The owner comes to you and tells you he is going to sue your ass
cause you told him it was nothing, and within VW spec.Do you honestly believe
you can convince him he couldn't have prevented that by further investigating the
sudden change in the trims ??

I don't know what kind of cars you have been working on Chris, but i promise you
i wouldn't let you go near mine...EVER...


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> Basically you have my car. I'm K04 REVO Stg III, RS4 injectors, BSH race VTA can, KMD follower, was KMD HPFP(Now prototype HPFP). In cold months my car stalled out on cold-start, blew black smoke at any touch of the throttle.
> 
> I just replaced the throttle body......mine had no cracks, no carbon line and I don't use W/M. Guess it just died out. It would adapt fine every time, passed the sweep test every time and everything. But after replacing the throttle body, my car stays right at -3.1% and only blows black smoke when in heavy accel. MVB 107 now runs and passes every time which it hasn't done since I went REVO STG II way back when!! Only issue I had after throttle body was a hard stutter at high boost and high RPM pulls. Felt like a misfire, but would not register. I put new OE plugs in it and closed the gap down to 26 and it's a beast now. No issues since then.....so hopefully it'll be good through the Winter while I make decisions on going bigger.
> -J. Hines
> ...


 Thanks! I will pull that sucker off and check the part # just curious how much am I gonna spend on the neww one?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Thanks! I will pull that sucker off and check the part # just curious how much am I gonna spend on the neww one?


 You don't have to pull off, just look on the side with the plastic housing cover. Will 06F 133 062 G or some other letter. Not sure what the guys are getting for price......I work at the dealership, so I get a pretty good deal on parts for my car. 
-J. Hines


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Once again you fail to answer my question.
> 
> You have a car that under "standard operating conditions" would show a 0.5% trim.
> That car suddenly shows a -3% deviation.According to you, this is "within spec", and
> ...


 
your scenario as described is impossible and a change from .5% to -3% would NEVER cause a failure. If you even remotely believe this you clearly do not grasp even the basic concepts of how an engine works. Your car is doing greater than a 4% change while it sits at idle in your driveway, thousands of times a day. 

An injector failure would result in 0 fuel, 0 fuel means 0 power in that cylinder and the chance of failure is less than if the car was sitting at idle and running perfectly. 

Any injector failure between 0 and normal that would possibly cause an engine failure would cause enough of an imbalance that the car would shut down that cylinder and go into limp mode. 

So what exactly is it that you know more than I do on this?

As I has already explained to you a change of that nature is 100% normal and expected in DAILY operation. If someone had an engine failure due to a component failure it would have NOTHING to do with Revo or me and they would have no basis for a lawsuit, apparently another subject I am more well versed on then you are.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> your scenario as described is impossible and a change from .5% to -3% would NEVER cause a failure. If you even remotely believe this you clearly do not grasp even the basic concepts of how an engine works. Your car is doing greater than a 4% change while it sits at idle in your driveway, thousands of times a day.
> 
> An injector failure would result in 0 fuel, 0 fuel means 0 power in that cylinder and the chance of failure is less than if the car was sitting at idle and running perfectly.
> 
> ...


 
Take the argument to the PMs guys. Trying to keep this thread here for the guys out there with this issue. 
-J. Hines


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> Take the argument to the PMs guys. Trying to keep this thread here for the guys out there with this issue.
> -J. Hines


 No, everything being discussed is on topic as it applies to what people think fuel trims mean. Unfortunately golfrs has personal issues with me and just about anyone who tells him that what he said was wrong and no matter how many times you prove it he will continue with personal attacks and any other methods he can to derail the topic. 

If Revo is going to be in the title of this thread I will continue to post in it and ensure our customers know what the truth is, don't want me in it start another one without Revo in it next time.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> your scenario as described is impossible and *a change from .5% to -3% would NEVER cause a failure*. If you even remotely believe this you clearly do not grasp even the basic concepts of how an engine works. Your car is doing greater than a 4% change while it sits at idle in your driveway, thousands of times a day.


 Good God...You are THICK...:facepalm:

Who said anything about the change in trims causing the failure ?? :screwy:
What's the problem Chris ?Can't even read English anymore??
What i said was a change in trims might indicate a failing or failed
hardware component which in turn might cause a failure.
Is that really so hard to comprehend ??



> An injector failure would result in 0 fuel, 0 fuel means 0 power in that cylinder and the chance of failure is less than if the car was sitting at idle and running perfectly.
> 
> Any injector failure between 0 and normal that would possibly cause an engine failure would cause enough of an imbalance that the car would shut down that cylinder and go into limp mode.
> 
> So what exactly is it that you know more than I do on this?


 LOL....So in your "expert opinion" an injector failure always means 0 fuel ??
So in your "expert opinion" again an injector cannot malfunction, spraying less
fuel than what the ECU is telling it to, causing a lean state that might not be detected
by the ECU, thus causing the failure of that cylinder ??How does the ECU know
one cylinder is running lean Chris ??What if the other injectors are also malfunctioning
but actually leaking, and altogether masking the lambda values ??Will that cylinder
knock ??Will that be detected by the ECU in time to save the engine ??

Yes do tell me, what is it exactly that you know more ???



> *
> it would have NOTHING to do with Revo or me and they would have no basis for a lawsuit, apparently another subject I am more well versed on then you are.*


 Aaahhh right....

No i see what they are paying you for at Revo.I knew it wasn't for being tech support...
You probably have that engraved in a tablet above your head in your office (if you even have one)

To be honest if my engine had failed and you threw that BS at me, the last thing
on my mind would be suing you...


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I will continue to post in it and ensure our customers know what the truth is


 That is what is probably engraved in the second tablet below the first one...


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

There is so much stupidity in what you just posted it is actually painful to read.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> There is so much stupidity in what you just posted it is actually painful to read.


 Its funny how your answers really sum up to "you are stupid", "you don't know",
"i know everything", "you know nothing", and yet completely lack any
technical knowledge and information.

It's like all of those techs that i've talked to in the past that didn't have a clue,
didn't have an answer, and their only defense was to try and make themselves look clever,and
everybody else look dumb, just to be able to survive.

I have to say Chris, i knew you were an ass, but i didn't know you
are also a dumbass... :banghead:


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

No it is simple. It doesn't matter what anyone knows you insist you are right every single time regardless of how idiotic your ideas are. It doesn't matter if every person responding is saying you are incorrect you will sit there and claim you are right. What you are saying is just plain stupid, one because it is and two because you just keep fighting the same wrong points over and over again. You have proven in this post that you do not have any understanding of how the fuel trims work or what they even mean. You claim they are gospel but then mock the engineers who created them. 

I'm sorry this is well beyond the 100th time I've had to try and straighten out the crap you are posting in a thread that has Revo in the title. Unfortunately this won't be the last time you steer my customers wrong while getting involved in a thread that has nothing to do with you. 

It is completely disrespectful to the members of this forum that you insist on continuing to push your incorrect views on everyone who is trying to learn something just because you think one day you might get me on something.

You are 100% wrong on what you think the fuel trims mean or even how much of a variance is tolerated. You have now been told this by several people including two who have actually been trained by VW and Audi to use this information. You need to just accept this and stop ruining every thread you get involved in. 

I don't care who made the post with the incorrect information I would have corrected it because it involved products I support. Of course it happened to come from you which now means that anyone reading this thread has to suffer through your BS because once again you are upset that I corrected you. The answer is simple, do some research and educate yourself on topics you are going to post in. I double check my information before I make almost every post I do to ensure that the information is going to be helpful because I know it is correct.


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

opcorn: 







:wave: Hey everyone


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> No it is simple. It doesn't matter what anyone knows you insist you are right every single time regardless of how idiotic your ideas are. It doesn't matter if every person responding is saying you are incorrect you will sit there and claim you are right. What you are saying is just plain stupid, one because it is and two because you just keep fighting the same wrong points over and over again. You have proven in this post that you do not have any understanding of how the fuel trims work or what they even mean. You claim they are gospel but then mock the engineers who created them.
> 
> I'm sorry this is well beyond the 100th time I've had to try and straighten out the crap you are posting in a thread that has Revo in the title. Unfortunately this won't be the last time you steer my customers wrong while getting involved in a thread that has nothing to do with you.
> 
> ...


 
Omg here we go into another Chris ego fit...

Seriously man, i don't even know who the f*ck you think you are and who crowned you "VAG King", but the people i've been talking to all say you are full of bull**** and totally clueless.You get a seizure when someone tries to prove you wrong, you completely lack any technical knowledge and as far as i'm concerned, even though i have Revo software you are the last person i would ever go to for help.

Once again all you ever do to respond to my posts is rows and rows of BS on how you know everything (hilarious how you also include other people that obviously know something, saying they share your opinion...LOL) and i know nothing.Most probably you don't even understand what the f*ck
i'm talking about...do you Chris ??You even suggested i said trims will destroy an engine...How DUMB is that ??

You say i try to "push" my incorrect opinions on others, and yet, this exactly what you do.
Who told you that having a company's name at the end of a nickname in a public forum
automatically means that person is smart or even qualified to produce correct information ?

I haven't seen a single piece of technical information coming out of your mouth to contradict what
i am saying other than insults and taunts that somehow make you feel you are in control,
and think the person confronting you will "run away scared"...As i said above your panic ego fit is
what i've come to expect from people that don't have the necessary knowledge to actually
counter what i am saying.You are supposed to be "customer support" and yet lack all the
people skills necessary for that place.Tell me Chris, is this how you answer to your clients ??
Are they all certified VW-Audi techs and you answer them in a more technical way ?
Or do you just tell them they are wrong and to go f*ck off like you do in 99% of your posts ?

And one last note...If you were half as tech savvy as you claim you are, you wouldn't be sitting
behind a desk answering phone calls...I guess at least someone knew where you belong.... :thumbup:


----------



## $GTI07$ (Feb 29, 2008)

jhines_06gli said:


> opcorn:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hi.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Seriously man, i don't even know who the f*ck you think you are and who crowned you "VAG King"


 Quite a few ladies actually 

As for who i think i am, that is easy. I KNOW I am the guy who has more knowledge on this subject then you. You can argue this until your fingers bleed but that is an actual fact. 



> And one last note...If you were half as tech savvy as you claim you are, you wouldn't be sitting
> behind a desk answering phone calls...I guess at least someone knew where you belong.... :thumbup:


 Um you do realize being this savvy and knowledge about these vehicles is what got me this job right? I now get to do what i love and I don't have to pick grease out from under my nails unless I want to work on a car for pleasure. *I AM* Revo Tech support for two entire continents, because I know what I am doing. I was offered a position that was great enough to get me to sell my house and move 800 miles from the nearest family member. You don't get offered those things because they heard you could rotate tires well. When I had my shop and was a Revo dealer I was actually already assisting Revo at times with technical support issues that the staff at the time couldn't figure out. So yeah I was actually hired because I am the best at what I do.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Quite a few ladies actually
> 
> As for who i think i am, that is easy. I KNOW I am the guy who has more knowledge on this subject then you. You can argue this until your fingers bleed but that is an actual fact.
> 
> ...












That is amazing man !!!! Brought a tear to my eye...

Now all you have to do is work on your *MANNERS*....and you are good to go....


----------



## gtiguy12 (May 22, 2006)

As a VW tech, I can say Chris is 100% on in terms of a normal fuel trim. anything over a 10% deviation may be a cause for concern, If there is a issue present, but it is close to impossible to run at 0 adaptation all the time. -3 is a great number compared to +25.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> That is amazing man !!!!
> 
> Now all you have to do is work on your *MANNERS*....and you are good to go....


 I do at times yes, but not for you because 100% of the problems right now are caused by you and how you are handling this and any other interaction we have. 

I did nothing out of line in my response, I explained what the actual manufacture allows and says is good. You then proceeded to flip out and make anything I say personal. You continued to ruin this thread because you have some issue with me and anyone else who likes to actually make sure the correct information is posted. Everyone of your posts that you have made is evidence that you don't actually give a crap about what you say or what anyone can possibly learn and take away from a thread and is simply you trying to one time make me look like i am wrong. You have been trying for years and have been failing for years. Each attempt only makes you look more and more pathetic so I suggest you stop sooner than later. 


Now we have gone on for a page just continuing to show your lack of knowledge on the subject, are you done yet and can the grown ups get back to properly diagnosing their cars?


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

gtiguy12 said:


> As a VW tech, I can say Chris is 100% on in terms of a normal fuel trim. anything over a 10% deviation may be a cause for concern, If there is a issue present, but it is close to impossible to run at 0 adaptation all the time. -3 is a great number compared to +25.


 And what if there is a sudden change in trims that might indicate hardware malfunction.

Even if that is within the 3% that is mentioned, isn't that cause enough to further
investigate any possible issue ?

My argument is not a certain number, but a sudden not seen before change.

THAT is what Chris simply doesn't want to understand.


----------



## gtiguy12 (May 22, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> And what if there is a sudden change in trims that might indicate hardware malfunction.


 A Hardware malfunction isn't going to fix itself. the rest of the sensors will step up to the plate in this instance and set a check engine light indicating which systems have been affected. Will these faults directly tell you the malfunction? maybe, maybe not, But a good tech can make sense on the data and start a diagnostic path to correct the problem.:beer:


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I do at times yes, but not for you because 100% of the problems right now are caused by you and how you are handling this and any other interaction we have.
> 
> I did nothing out of line in my response, I explained what the actual manufacture allows and says is good. You then proceeded to flip out and make anything I say personal. You continued to ruin this thread because you have some issue with me and anyone else who likes to actually make sure the correct information is posted. Everyone of your posts that you have made is evidence that you don't actually give a crap about what you say or what anyone can possibly learn and take away from a thread and is simply you trying to one time make me look like i am wrong. You have been trying for years and have been failing for years. Each attempt only makes you look more and more pathetic so I suggest you stop sooner than later.
> 
> ...


 Besides your obvious ego trippin, you also seem to be suffering from a severe 
case of "Delusional Disorder"...And that is MY job to know.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> My argument is not a certain number, but a sudden not seen before change.


 No that was NOT your initial comment that started this crap storm



this guy again said:


> -3.1% shows the car is still pulling fuel, indicating a rich condition.
> 
> It may not be enough to trigger a CEL but still shows everything isn't perfect.


 Yes everything is perfect, this is what you said initial this is what i corrected, bob corrected, J corrected, probably others who got lost in the mess corrected and now this guy corrected. 

How many more factory trained techs is it going to take until you understand this?

The car in question you were responding to went from having a rich code and fuel trims that were (i don't recall specifics) pushing the limits of their range if not at them. He fixed something and his trims were now -3.1%. Which is all we keep saying that this is 100% acceptable. The actual trims in question were NOT that of a car that went a whopping 4% sweep from 1% to -3% (still 100% acceptable) which means apparently injector failure and the engine is about to explode in your world. He was posting results showing that what he changed fixed his problem. If he was on the book and doing this for VW reporting back to one of their engineers they would have said awesome its fixed ship the car. He reported the internet equal to that based on knowing what is actually correct.

Not one person is saying that if a car does some huge sweeping change that this does not indicate a problem. But even a car that is normally at 15% that went to 19% doesn't necessarily mean anything worse happened. those types of swings are expected and normal. Which is again also why -3% is absolutely acceptable. 




> THAT is what Chris simply doesn't want to understand.


 Give it a rest you are a child.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Besides your obvious ego trippin, you also seem to be suffering from a severe
> case of "Delusional Disorder"...And that is MY job to know.


 
Delusional? Everything is documented on this and other forums for anyone to read. 

As for the ego trip, I'm sorry but you demanded that i explain how and why i know things all the while attempting to attack my intelligence and skills. Then said I was wrong, lying and now saying I have an ego trip when I did what you asked. Apparently now people can't even answer your questions without you attacking them. 

All this because now at least 4 people tried to help you understand fuel trims better. This is pathetic.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

gtiguy12 said:


> A Hardware malfunction isn't going to fix itself. the rest of the sensors will step up to the plate in this instance and set a check engine light indicating which systems have been affected. Will these faults directly tell you the malfunction? maybe, maybe not, But a good tech can make sense on the data and start a diagnostic path to correct the problem.:beer:


 If you are referring to the trims returning to "normal", no this is not what i meant.

But trims can be diagnostic tool even if within acceptable limits ?

Especially when changing suddenly without any external modification to the engine.
A slightly leaking injector for example might cause a rich condition, offset the trims, and still
not cause a CEL or effect the engine's function in such a drastic manner,that even
a tech wouldn't notice.The ECU will just try and do its job maintaining a
normal function (which is exactly what the trims are showing), thus "prolonging" 
the failed part's life up to the point it no longer functions well enough for the ECU
to be able to compensate.

To you as a VW tech, does that sound wrong ?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The Lambda sensor reads the air fuel ratio. 

A desired air fuel ratio is perscribed by a calibrator within your ECU. 

The ECU calculated a desired air fuel ratio based on many different variables. 


Based on variables such as mass airflow as detected by the MAF sensor, rail pressure as reported by the rail pressure sensor, injector size as specified in the ECU by the calibrator and injector on time (how long the injector is spraying spraying), the ECU will try to match the correct amount of fuel based on the air that should be entering the cylinders. 

The Lambda, or oxygen sensor will detect what the air fuel ratio actually was. 

If it's not on target, fuel trims will adjust in an attempt to get it right on the next injection pulse. This process repeats itself all the time and is constantly adjusting. 

In a perfect world, everything would be perfect. Every sensor would read perfectly. Everything in the ECU would be sized correctly and calculated correctly. Every injector would inject exactly the same amount of fuel no matter what. Even in this "Perfect" situation where all hardware and software is perfect, the ECU cannot and does not know the quality of fuel injected at any moment. 

Not all fuel has the same air fuel ratio for lambda 1, or stoich. Fuel with ethanol is not identical to fuel without it. Oxygenated fuel is different than non oxygenated fuel. Low grade fuel differs from high octane race fuel. 

Because of this, even in the perfect hardware/software world, fuel trims need to exist, and will not be 0% all of the time. 3% is normal. 

Furthermore, fuel trims exist so GolfRS can argue with everyone and be incorrect. 

Thank you. 

-Arin


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> No that was NOT your initial comment that started this crap storm


 See you STILL don't understand.I didn't say -3% is not acceptable.What i said is it means the ECU is compensating for SOMETHING.And that something might as well be a possible failing hardware.
In your "support" world, a car has to go to -+26% until you even bother to answer any questions.




> Yes everything is perfect, this is what you said initial this is what i corrected, bob corrected, J corrected, probably others who got lost in the mess corrected and now this guy corrected.


 No everything is not perfect simply because the ECU is taking action to make sure the engine
"copes" with what it gets.This is the role of the ECU.IF it wasn't for that, cars would only work one
way, use one type and quality of gas, work only at sea level etc etc, but that is IRRELEVANT.
I never said adaptation should not exist or that it's bad.But SOME times it might help you diagnose
issues that might be masked by the adapting power of the ECU, way before the reach the limit of
adaptation (which would mean nothing more than that the ECU has done all it could, and next step
might be a possible engine malfunction/failure).



> How many more factory trained techs is it going to take until you understand this?


 Wait...is that counting you too... ??



> The car in question you were responding to went from having a rich code and fuel trims that were (i don't recall specifics) pushing the limits of their range if not at them. He fixed something and his trims were now -3.1%. Which is all we keep saying that this is 100% acceptable. The actual trims in question were NOT that of a car that went a whopping 4% sweep from 1% to -3% (still 100% acceptable) which means apparently injector failure and the engine is about to explode in your world. He was posting results showing that what he changed fixed his problem. If he was on the book and doing this for VW reporting back to one of their engineers they would have said awesome its fixed ship the car. He reported the internet equal to that based on knowing what is actually correct.


 The car in question could also have had a lower deviation which could have indicated a FAILING
TB, and yet, the owner might not have noticed cause he was told IT'S NORMAL.Did you ever think of that ?THAT is what i am trying to say, and you just keep repeating VW specs like a parrot....
Is there a difference you are going to say ?Does it matter that he had to have his TB fail up to the
point it threw an error ?Isn't the end result the same ?Maybe, maybe not, cause a failing TB
may not break your engine, but a failing injector might...So no Chris, everything isn't perfect, unless you are "support" and don't want to be bothered that often...



> Not one person is saying that if a car does some huge sweeping change that this does not indicate a problem. But even a car that is normally at 15% that went to 19% doesn't necessarily mean anything worse happened. those types of swings are expected and normal. Which is again also why -3% is absolutely acceptable.


 Some parts fail progressively, and don't simply fall apart Chris.
Possible multiple failures might also "mask" what the ECU can and cannot see.
Can you be certain a failing O2 sensor is gonna be able to provide the
correct information to the ECU to adapt for an also failing injector ??
You don't need to see a +-24% deviation to figure out something is wrong.
Even a smaller deviation might show that either a failing part has been correctly
replaced, and also that a part is failing...




> Give it a rest you are a child.


 Yes mommy.Whatever you say.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> The Lambda sensor reads the air fuel ratio.
> 
> A desired air fuel ratio is perscribed by a calibrator within your ECU.
> 
> ...


 Somehow i expected you (or at least those that write stuff down for you) to get this.

No one said trims should be stuck at 0, no one said -3% is not "normal", what is said
is that a sudden change in trims without modifying the engine might be an indicator
of a failing part, or in reverse, the return of the trims to a lower - or + value, might
be an indication a failing part was correctly replaced.

Can you go ask if at least this is right ??

Thanks. :thumbup:


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Delusional? Everything is documented on this and other forums for anyone to read.
> 
> As for the ego trip, I'm sorry but you demanded that i explain how and why i know things all the while attempting to attack my intelligence and skills. Then said I was wrong, lying and now saying I have an ego trip when I did what you asked. Apparently now people can't even answer your questions without you attacking them.


 I am actually trying to find something that will work for you for both conditions but
i'm afraid you will have to get more than one medication.Let me look into it a little
more ok ?



> All this because now at least 4 people tried to help you understand fuel trims better. This is pathetic.


You don't seem to understand i already know how trims work, and fail to understand what
i am still trying to make YOU understand.You are right.It is pathetic.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Golfrs,

Where did I say I don't want to be bothered with any of this? I'm in this thread aren't I? I'm supporting customers over a simple 3% fuel adaptation discussion aren't I? I'm siting at my desk almost 2 hours after I got off work supporting customers. 

If someone called and said their 3% fuel trims were a concern for them i would explain to them that this is spec and nothing to be worried about because their isn't. There is nothing to support there so why are you making this into some situation where I am evil and will refuse to support people? Do i have to go fly out to meet then and datalog their perfectly running car just to make you happy? 

Where is this coming from other then proving you are just angry with me for no reason?




Oh and Arin just backed me(and the others) up so by the rules of the internet this automatically means when APR and Revo staff agree that the agreed upon point is now law and can no longer be argued against. If you even attempt to continue it is equal to you saying there is no gravity. 

Arin also made an EXCELLENT point regarding fuel quality, ethanol content and the like which in the context of this actual post I wasn't even taking into consideration.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

GolfRS said:


> Somehow i expected you (or at least those that write stuff down for you) to get this.
> 
> No one said trims should be stuck at 0, no one said -3% is not "normal", what is said
> is that a sudden change in trims without modifying the engine might be an indicator
> ...


 Sorry, I have photos to take, so I'll be unable to ask someone to write it for me.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry, I have photos to take, so I'll be unable to ask someone to write it for me.


 
Actually.......i giggled !!!


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> No one said trims should be stuck at 0, no one said -3% is not "normal", what is said
> is that a sudden change in trims without modifying the engine might be an indicator
> of a failing part, or in reverse, the return of the trims to a lower - or + value, might
> be an indication a failing part was correctly replaced.


 
No that is NOT what is said, in fact is isn't even what YOU said which is what started this whole thing. If you can't even recall what you typed in this thread and has been quoted several times you really shouldn't be suggesting medications for others..



> -3.1% shows the car is still pulling fuel, indicating a rich condition.
> 
> It may not be enough to trigger a CEL but still shows everything isn't perfect.


 no to expand on what Arin route it shows that you went to a station with less ethanol this week and is normal.

Not to mention the fact that this whole thing started when someone actually did make a large mechanical change and this was the corrected fuel trims after that change.

So not only was your initial point wrong but your now made up secondary point after you were proven wrong is also wrong. 


not one single person in this thread has ever said that if you were driving around on monday with a steady 3% trim and then tuesday you are at -20% that it doesn't indicate a problem. All you have done is continue to change your scenario so that hopefully someone will agree with you which you will then twist some how into me being wrong.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Golfrs,
> 
> Where did I say I don't want to be bothered with any of this? I'm in this thread aren't I? I'm supporting customers over a simple 3% fuel adaptation discussion aren't I? I'm siting at my desk almost 2 hours after I got off work supporting customers.
> 
> If someone called and said their 3% fuel trims were a concern for them i would explain to them that this is spec and nothing to be worried about because their isn't. There is nothing to support there so why are you making this into some situation where I am evil and will refuse to support people? Do i have to go fly out to meet then and datalog their perfectly running car just to make you happy?


 But that is not the case in question.What if someone called you and said i have been checking and logging my trims, and today for the first i noticed a -3% deviation whereas before it was always
at +3% .Would you also say to him not to worry ?You don't have to always calm people down
cause they think their engine is going to explode.People might also be calling you because they
find that change weird (most Revo customers are pretty diligent when it comes to logging their cars).
Why would you prevent that guy for looking for a possible vacuum leak ?Or a bad sensor ?
I never said you should go under their cars for an average 3% deviation.But reassuring someone
the is "within VW spec" isn't the best advice when something might be going on. 



> ...you are just angry with me for no reason?


 I have a reason.I don't like your attitude.Is that ok ?




> Oh and Arin just backed me(and the others) up so by the rules of the internet this automatically means when APR and Revo staff agree that the agreed upon point is now law and can no longer be argued against. If you even attempt to continue it is equal to you saying there is no gravity.


 I have no answer to that.I would have to look it up and get back to you.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> All you have done is continue to change your scenario so that hopefully someone will agree with you which you will then twist some how into me being wrong.


 Now if that plot doesn't need medicating i don't know what does.

Are you sleeping well at nights Chris ?You know sleep deprivation
might cause that too and all you need might be a good night's sleep.
You could be lucky.


----------



## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Once again you fail to answer my question.
> 
> You have a car that under "standard operating conditions" would show a 0.5% trim.
> That car suddenly shows a -3% deviation.According to you, this is "within spec", and
> ...


 Correlation does not necessarily imply causation. 

I think GolfRS just has a complete lack of understand of basic engineering principles... 

Also, when Chris and Arin agree, you know GolfRS is 110% wrong.


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

staulkor said:


> Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.
> 
> I think GolfRS just has a complete lack of understand of basic engineering principles...
> 
> Also, when Chris and Arin agree, you know GolfRS is 110% wrong.


 lmfao.:beer:


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

staulkor said:


> Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.
> 
> I think GolfRS just has a complete lack of understand of basic engineering principles...
> 
> Also, when Chris and Arin agree, you know GolfRS is 110% wrong.


 Could you explain how you reached that conclusion ?

I couldn't care less what you think i do or do not know,
but i definitely would like to see what YOU know that
has guided you to that conclusion.

Do you have anything technical to offer to the discussion
other than kissing up to the advertisers ??

I'm willing to listen.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Now if that plot doesn't need medicating i don't know what does.


 
Really because we all just read it, I couldn't make up the crap you just spewed.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> I'm willing to listen.


 
No clearly you are not...






rracerguy717 said:


> -3.1 @ PT is not bad its about normal with RS4 injectors. +/- 20 triggers CEL and running that rich is gonna cause knock / timing pull.





[email protected] said:


> -3% absolutely within spec, a bone stock car that rolled off the assembly line this morning wouldn't even be looked at for having -3% fuel trims. + or - 10% Vw won't even bat an eye at.
> 
> In fact VW even says if your fuel trims don't move from 0 something is broken.





jhines_06gli said:


> Now what VW told us in the engine diagnostics class(not that everything they say is 100% true) was that you have a normal operating window of +3/-3% that is acceptable baseline for a good engine. By good engine, that means the "Suck/Squeeze/Bang/Blow" components needed for combustion are all there and working properly. By the +3/-3, that means you should constantly see MVB 33(Front O2) switching between ranges of +3 and -3 on a rapid basis at idle.





gtiguy12 said:


> As a VW tech, I can say Chris is 100% on in terms of a normal fuel trim. anything over a 10% deviation may be a cause for concern, If there is a issue present, but it is close to impossible to run at 0 adaptation all the time. -3 is a great number compared to +25.





[email protected] said:


> Because of this, even in the perfect hardware/software world, fuel trims need to exist, and will not be 0% all of the time. 3% is normal.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> I have a reason.I don't like your attitude.Is that ok ?


 
No it is not ok at all because anyone can see in this thread I simply said that his fuel trims were ok and you flipped your ****. You were the one with the bad attitude that took this thread into the dumps. It is YOUR attitude and unwillingness to ever actually learn anything that is the problem. 

If you just stop being wrong all the time all of this will end.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> No it is not ok at all because anyone can see in this thread I simply said that his fuel trims were ok and you flipped your ****. You were the one with the bad attitude that took this thread into the dumps. It is YOUR attitude and unwillingness to ever actually learn anything that is the problem.
> 
> If you just stop being wrong all the time all of this will end.


 I'm not here to help you satisfy your ego man.

You have to get over it at some point.

Seriously.... :facepalm:


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> I'm not here to help you satisfy your ego man.
> 
> You have to get over it at some point.
> 
> Seriously.... :facepalm:


 
You are the one who is completely wrong here, been told by 5 people and are still going.. I think you are a little confused on who has the issue with their ego.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> You are the one who is completely wrong here, been told by 5 people and are still going.. I think you are a little confused on who has the issue with their ego.


 What exactly an i wrong about Chris ?

That the trims are the ECU's response to an external or internal factor, trying
to compensate and have the engine running as best as possible ?
Does your expert training say otherwise ?

Or that a change in trims might indicate an imbalance that when abrupt might indicate
a hardware malfunction ?Yes trims fluctuate, that's what they do, but when consistently
logging a car you see a deviation that wasn't seen before, without any modification,it
could mean something is wrong.Do you disagree with that too ?

All of your arguments are based on the OP's car, and yet, i am also talking
in a general manner, not only about that car.

And *staulkor*, you didn't seem that sympathetic in your thread about how Revo helped you out, and yet you are bashing ME...I see ZERO Revo participation in your thread, and yet...here you are..funny...



staulkor said:


> I have emailed revo twice about this CEL and got no response...


 http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4605391-P2188-System-too-Rich-at-Idle

Here's another poor fellow on Revo software that had this issue for ONE AN A HALF YEAR.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4987890-I-m-sick-of-my-CEL...P0172...K04-Stage-3

Where was Revo support all that time ??Maybe trims were too...."in spec" for them to help....

Oh sh*t !!! Here is ANOTHER Revo K04 on the same issue...



joeyvdubGLI said:


> We have the same setup, I've had the same code for a while also (actually mine will way "Too Rich at Idle"), one thing I found is that in this thread, Staulkor's code went away after replacing his throttle body. I haven't tried it yet, and I'm deployed, If you try this, please post your results. opcorn:


 Wait...Is there a pattern there ?? :sly:

Good thing Revo support is helping these people fix their cars....themselves...

Thank God.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Odd, there are numerous people in this thread who actually fixed their broken cars and the problems they blamed on Revo went away after blaming the software for a year. You can't support people who refuse to actually look at their car. 

For every one person with this code we have 10 without it, that generally indicates the software is fine.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> What exactly an i wrong about Chris ?


 
seriously?




> -3.1% shows the car is still pulling fuel, indicating a rich condition.
> 
> It may not be enough to trigger a CEL but still shows everything isn't perfect.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Odd, there are numerous people in this thread who actually fixed their broken cars and the problems they blamed on Revo went away after blaming the software for a year. You can't support people who refuse to actually look at their car.
> 
> For every one person with this code we have 10 without it, that generally indicates the software is fine.


 God... that is so typical "Chris".

So your main concern is not "getting blamed" for something and not how to help people
fix their cars.....That is good to know.It is also funny how you blame owners about the
codes their car has, and don't even care that all of the cars that had the SAME issue in the above
threads were on Revo software...But then again, why should you...


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> seriously?


 Yes seriously.

Does -3.1% trim show the ECU is pulling fuel yes or no ??
Does pulling fuel indicate a possible rich condition the
ECU is adapting to by pulling that fuel ?Yes or no ?
The magnitude of that correction certainly has to do
with "normal" or not conditions, but doesn't have
to hit the adaptation limit for someone to guess
something might be wrong.3.1% might be in spec,
but going from +3% to -3% might not be, not according
to specs, but in case of a hardware failure.....

That quote said nothing about how or why.It simply 
stated a function of the ECU mirrored by the negative
trim value.In your books that is false ??


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> God... that is so typical "Chris".
> 
> So your main concern is not "getting blamed" for something and not how to help people
> fix their cars.....That is good to know.It is also funny how you blame owners about the
> ...


 
No most of the people you are saying i never helped were helped off the forums, you know that place that 99.9% of business is done and support is handled? 

No one is blaming owners, but yes there are many people that call you and say it has to be software when they haven't even checked for codes or know what is even going on. If the software works on almost every car it is on and a handful have problems that generally points to it NOT being a software issue. When it isn't a software issue and I don't have the car in front of me all I or any other support person for any tuner can do is offer suggestions and review some logs. Unfotunatly many of these people REFUSE to do this. You can't help people who won't help themselves. 

You are actually a perfect example of this.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> No most of the people you are saying i never helped were helped off the forums, you know that place that 99.9% of business is done and support is handled?
> 
> No one is blaming owners, but yes there are many people that call you and say it has to be software when they haven't even checked for codes or know what is even going on. If the software works on almost every car it is on and a handful have problems that generally points to it NOT being a software issue. When it isn't a software issue and I don't have the car in front of me all I or any other support person for any tuner can do is offer suggestions and review some logs. Unfotunatly many of these people REFUSE to do this. You can't help people who won't help themselves.
> 
> You are actually a perfect example of this.


 Do you honestly want to go over the whole "you helping me" again ?

I have already told you numerous times i don't need your help, and
even when i did ask for it in the past, answers were comprised
of only insults and rants.No useful technical information whatsoever.
You keep getting into a fit when someone says you are wrong about something,
you are totally absolute in your views, and your only concern is not
looking bad in front of your customers.That's all.

Btw, you ask and accept help from someone you know or believe can
give it to you.

In your case you don't belong to any of the above categories...


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Do you honestly want to go over the whole "you helping me" again ?


 
I'm not claiming I help you, in fact I was pointing out the opposite that you are so damn full of yourself that even threads you start asking people for help you just fight with them and rant and rave about them being wrong. 

You've done that numerous times, you do nothing but waste everyone's time here and ruin threads pretending to know things you don't. 

But yes I've tried to help educate you 100s of times and tried to help answer your questions many times as well but you just throw a fit.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> You keep getting into a fit when someone says you are wrong about something,


 
You just defined yourself to a T. This thread proves it not the other way around.

I haven't been wrong in this thread, you have.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I haven't been wrong in this thread, you have.


 And it so seems YOU just defined yourself to a T.

That completely describes who you are.

A self appointed forum bully that doesn't take well to
criticism or difference of opinion.And you have proven that
on numerous occasions with people other than me.
That pretty much sums up that the issue here is you and
your behavior and not "us".

Still for the life of me cannot comprehend how they keep
you in a PR position...Amazing...


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> And it so seems YOU just defined yourself to a T.


 
Yes I have, I am generally not wrong because I make sure I am right before I open my mouth. 

In all your attempts to diagnose me you missed the only real one and that is my fear of being wrong .


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> A self appointed forum bully that doesn't take well to
> criticism or difference of opinion..


 
Says the guy arguing over facts...


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> In all your attempts to diagnose me you missed the only real one and that is my fear of being wrong .


 
But this is how bullies become bullies Chris...

Because of fear....

Doesn't it feel good to open up ??

I believe you have potential but are still a long way off.

Keep trying :thumbup:


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## Vinnyty (Mar 19, 2008)

Is it time to lock this thread?:facepalm:


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

The codes I had a long time ago were strange, and everything I checked on the car seemed ok. I thought Revo may have some information on the code so I shot them a couple emails and go no reply. Not that big of a deal. I'm a big boy and realize that emails get overlooked, read but forgotten, etc. and I understand it may take a few tries to reach somebody. My problems eventually went away on their own and I left it at that. Can't really test if this sensor or that part causes rich codes if there are no rich codes present! Eventually I got more codes and then my TB took a **** on me and poof! they were gone for good. Issue solved. Crisis averted. MOVE. ON.

You fail to understand that on the forums, people come here to COMPLAIN; you never see hundreds of threads saying "My **** works great and has no problems whatsoever." As Chris said, for every 1 car that has a code, there are 10 or more that dont. This indicates specific, isolated hardware faults. Now this may not necessarily be true, there could be some strange condition in the software that we happen to hit, but it INDICATES hardware. And so far, it looks like hardware is the culprit.

I think it's hilarious that you think I am kissing up to the advertisers. I honestly don't mind what they think of me, but I prefer to be thought of as somebody who display knowledge of what they talk about, accept that fact that I am not always correct and learn from mistakes, and to not be on someone's bad sad as you never know what you may need from somebody down the road.

Lastly, you have a complete lack of basic engineering principles because a +/- 3% fuel trim (ie. error in combusion) is completely normal and an amazing thing when you think about how small +/- 3% really is when you consider what is really going on. IF you go to school and take engineering courses, you study theoretical cases. Real world isnt so nice and easy. You have impurities in the air and fuel, phenomenons that are not fully understood, strange conditions, engineering compromises, etc. that will affect combusion. You MUST adjust for these (hence fuel trims along with many other adjustments) or it will not match the engineering specificiations, or worse yet, be completely unstable. It is not possible to have a perfect system. You learn that in Thermo in your first day. There are ranges of accepted values that are completely normal and will work just fine. A STEADY +/- 3% is what the engine was engineered for (assuming that VW engine diagnostics class is using correct numbers) and +/- 3% is what we are seeing, end of story.

Mods: please dont lock, this will be good  If anything, sticky it to show a perfect example of how not to act on the forums, or really, anywhere.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

staulkor said:


> Lastly, you have a complete lack of basic engineering principles because a +/- 3% fuel trim (ie. error in combusion) is completely normal and an amazing thing when you think about how small +/- 3% really is when you consider what is really going on. IF you go to school and take engineering courses, you study theoretical cases. Real world isnt so nice and easy. You have impurities in the air and fuel, phenomenons that are not fully understood, strange conditions, engineering compromises, etc. that will affect combusion. You MUST adjust for these (hence fuel trims along with many other adjustments) or it will not match the engineering specificiations, or worse yet, be completely unstable. It is not possible to have a perfect system. You learn that in Thermo in your first day. There are ranges of accepted values that are completely normal and will work just fine. A STEADY +/- 3% is what the engine was engineered for (assuming that VW engine diagnostics class is using correct numbers) and +/- 3% is what we are seeing, end of story.
> 
> Mods: please dont lock, this will be good  If anything, sticky it to show a perfect example of how not to act on the forums, or really, anywhere.


FFS man...Do you even understand what i am saying ?You claim i have a lack of engineering principles and yet you fail to grasp what i have been saying all through this thread...
WHY is it so hard to understand ?? :facepalm:

Once again then for your enjoyment...
I NEVER said +-3% is not within the "normal" range.What i DID say was that trims can be a
good diagnostic tool, and fluctuations of a certain manner could give a hint about a pending
hardware failure.Now tell me please WHY THE F*CK is that so hard to understand !!!
Everyone keeps repeating the same thing that has been "explained to death". If that is all
the knowledge you can offer, i understand, but please let me say what i have to say, and
try to understand instead of making judgements on who knows what.

Anyways this is getting annoying.It's like what they say someone was pointing to the stars and
people were looking at the finger.This is the feeling i get from your responses.I am talking
about how to use a basic function of the engine to help maintain it's proper function,and
you keep quoting some tech manual you found on the internet....It's sad, but as you said these are
the forums....

And on a last note....I am happy you believe you have a car that fixes itself, instead of believing
those sporadic codes might be indicating a failing part that might come back to bite you.
If you even understood what i am writting about you could use that knowledge to PREVENT.
Oh and btw, we can compare our "knowledge" or "lack of" any time you want.
Want to bet you'll lose ?


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

Lets look at what the 2.0t FSI engine really is: an inexpensive, consumer engine...nothing more, nothing less. Yea its quite a few grand for the engine, but it isn't an F1 engine...the thing is designed for a range of operating conditions and will adjust to work in all of them (for the most part). It isn't designed to be an engineering marvel like F1 engines are. It was designed to be a consumer engine. A small change in values is most likely going to be negligible. An F1 engine with a small change in values will probably be very significant as the thing is high strung as it is.

Nobody is denying that fuel trims aren't useful as a diagnostic tool that can indicate potential faults. The part where you are wrong is a 3% or similarly small change is not significant. Now if your car was typically -3 to -5% like mine, and all of a sudden its -18%, then yes, there is probably something wrong.


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## Spoolin20v (Dec 9, 2003)

GolfRS said:


> -3.1% shows the car is still pulling fuel, indicating a rich condition.
> 
> It may not be enough to trigger a CEL but still shows everything isn't perfect.




-3.1% is completely normal.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Spoolin20v said:


> -3.1% is completely normal.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

staulkor said:


> Lets look at what the 2.0t FSI engine really is: an inexpensive, consumer engine...nothing more, nothing less. Yea its quite a few grand for the engine, but it isn't an F1 engine...the thing is designed for a range of operating conditions and will adjust to work in all of them (for the most part). It isn't designed to be an engineering marvel like F1 engines are. It was designed to be a consumer engine. A small change in values is most likely going to be negligible. An F1 engine with a small change in values will probably be very significant as the thing is high strung as it is.


The basic principles are the same when we are talking about internal combustion engines.
It is the same process that takes place in both engines, albeit "augmented" in the case of a F1 engine since it is manufactured for one purpose only an that is to make power and last the life of the race.

You are correct to say our engines are made to work under many external conditions,and
that is were adaptation comes in.But it is also there to help keep the engine working when
certain factors (like a malfunctioning part) are causing the car to run "out of spec".
An example was a leaking injector, but it might as well be a vacuum leak which btw isn't an
environmental factor, but rather a "part malfunction" like a punctured or slipped hose.
As said trims will deviate, showing the ECU's action to compensate and it isn't until the vacuum
leak is big enough to cause an engine stall that someone might actually "detect it".
So checking trims and looking for unexpected deviations is a good way to check the
health of an engine.-3% might not be "out of spec", but these specs are nothing but
accepted limits between which the engine's function is thought as "acceptable".Of course
the engine is running well, cause it has been "taken care of" by the ECU and adaptation.
But seriously you don't need to reach the -18% value to start thinking something is fishy.



> Nobody is denying that fuel trims aren't useful as a diagnostic tool that can indicate potential faults. The part where you are wrong is a 3% or similarly small change is not significant. Now if your car was typically -3 to -5% like mine, and all of a sudden its -18%, then yes, there is probably something wrong.


As i said above there are MANY factors that influence the trims.While trims are just numbers
their value reflects something.But can you be certain even that number is correct ?
Are you really "within spec" ?Here's an example.You have a leaking injector, and your car
runs like CRAP.You check the trims and they are within spec (let's say -3% like you suggested).
At the same time though (and without you knowing) you O2 sensor has also bit the bullet.
So now the ECU sees stuff that are way off reality, and is adjusting the trims according
to what it "sees".So you now have a bad working engine, your ECU is over or undercompensating
and YOUR TRIMS ARE IN SPEC !!!How's that for an argument ??

So you see, "spec" is just a "comfort value" .It signifies a tolerance that is considered ok,
when everything is working as it should.ECU is compensating for environmental conditions
engine is working ok, the customer is happy, all is well with life.But don't get hung up in
numbers too much.For me as i said it is the sudden change that should be evaluated
and not the "in or out of spec" part....


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Spoolin20v said:


> -3.1% is completely normal.


Ok thanks man.

I was waiting for you to confirm. :thumbup: :facepalm:


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


>


Once again i love it how your answers are full of technical stuff.

Really helps the community, and showing how a company's representative should behave.

Btw do you have that pic in your "college parties" folder ??Or is it "high school stuff"...


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Btw do you have that pic in your "college parties" folder ??Or is it "high school stuff"...



Great now I have to teach you how to use the internet too?


If you right click on the image or depending on what browswer you use simply hovering the mouse over it may work, but that will tell you exactly what folder it is in.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Great now I have to teach you how to use the internet too?
> 
> 
> If you right click on the image or depending on what browswer you use simply hovering the mouse over it may work, but that will tell you exactly what folder it is in.


Now that's what i call support...

Sh*t man you should be working for IBM not Revo.


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

Great read! I learned soooo much. Thanks guys! :facepalm:

I do see that GolfRS is trying to say that an instant 3% correction in fuel trims could indicate a larger problem is on its way and I understand that but I don't think 3%, even in the circumstance that GolfRS presents, is enough for any alarm.

Now, if we were talking 8%+, I might check it again later.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

For the guy that tries to diagnose everyone else you have some serious mental issues that are far more evident then any you claim to see in anyone here.

6 People now have backed up that you were in fact wrong. But you still cannot accept the answer. Then someone CLEARLY makes a joke about it and you again turn into a complete douche for no reason at all. 

There is no one to support in this thread yet you keep ranting and raving about how I am not supporting anyone.. who in this thread in recent days asked for support from Revo??

At the same time you are demanding I support people you continue to try and make shots at me about how I am incapable of supporting anyone. Which is it must I help people or am I incapable of it? 


You offer nothing to anyone on this forum, you feel the need to attack anyone who tries to help you, this is absolutely pathetic.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> For the guy that tries to diagnose everyone else you have some serious mental issues that are far more evident then any you claim to see in anyone here.
> 
> 6 People now have backed up that you were in fact wrong. But you still cannot accept the answer. Then someone CLEARLY makes a joke about it and you again turn into a complete douche for no reason at all.
> 
> ...


Whatever man, i don't even see the point discussing with you further.

You fail to grasp my way of thinking and your head is stuck in those service manuals
you were forced to read to qualify for "support"....

Obviously you are very narrow minded, but that is your problem not mine.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Great read! I learned soooo much. Thanks guys! :facepalm:
> 
> I do see that GolfRS is trying to say that an instant 3% correction in fuel trims could indicate a larger problem is on its way and I understand that but I don't think 3%, even in the circumstance that GolfRS presents, is enough for any alarm.
> 
> Now, if we were talking 8%+, I might check it again later.


FINALLY, someone that understands !!!

As far as +3% goes though, it's all relative, cause it's not only the value that
counts but the variation itself.So going from +3% to -3% isn't a 3% change but
rather a 6% one, which is much closer to your proposed 8%. :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Whatever man, i don't even see the point discussing with you further.


So stop... 

I did and supported other people in this thread as you demanded I do and you decided to make things about me again. 



> Obviously you are very narrow minded, but that is your problem not mine.


Wait what? I'm not the one who just refused to listen to NOW 7 people say that what you said was incorrect. This is the very definition of narrow minded.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> FINALLY, someone that understands !!!
> 
> As far as +3% goes though, it's all relative, cause it's not only the value that
> counts but the variation itself.So going from +3% to -3% isn't a 3% change but
> rather a 6% one, which is much closer to your proposed 8%. :thumbup:



He just said you were wrong also, just in a different way. 

We all understood that you changed what you were saying in the middle and no one disagreed with your later theory. I even said so but you were too busy trying to have a fight to see it.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> So stop...
> 
> I did and supported other people in this thread as you demanded I do and you decided to make things about me again.
> 
> ...


Oh God...Tell me Chris...do you wank BEFORE you post or AFTER ??


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Oh God...Tell me Chris...do you wank BEFORE you post or AFTER ??



That makes about as much sense as when you used to post the rolleyes after your questions.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We all understood that you changed what you were saying in the middle and no one disagreed with your later theory. I even said so but you were too busy trying to have a fight to see it.


Aaaahhhh....You little rascal you...Nothing gets by you huh ??

Oh dang...Off to a new plot then hey ??


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> That makes about as much sense as when you used to post the rolleyes after your questions.


I take it that's both before AND after then huh ??

Makes sense...Too much excitement...


----------



## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

GolfRS said:


> I take it that's both before AND after then huh ??
> 
> Makes sense...Too much excitement...





jhines_06gli said:


> You don't have to pull off, just look on the side with the plastic housing cover. Will 06F 133 062 G or some other letter. Not sure what the guys are getting for price......I work at the dealership, so I get a pretty good deal on parts for my car.
> -J. Hines


Finally had time to check and this part # is exactly the one I have I'm ordering a throttle body I have my fingers crossed then I'm getting my Dsg flas. Thanks for thhe help! thumbup:


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Finally had time to check and this part # is exactly the one I have I'm ordering a throttle body I have my fingers crossed then I'm getting my Dsg flas. Thanks for thhe help! thumbup:


Unfortunately this was a good thread with data on a good fix but now with piles of drama. I really don't understand what the argument is, ok, so a car drifts +-3%. So what? If what is being said that this means there is some part about to break, are you supposed to replace everything until the fuel trim stops drifting? Is this like Minority Report where a ball will drop and some part will be identified as a future offender and Tom Cruise will swoop in and replace my throttle body?


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Unfortunately this was a good thread with data on a good fix but now with piles of drama. I really don't understand what the argument is, ok, so a car drifts +-3%. So what? If what is being said that this means there is some part about to break, are you supposed to replace everything until the fuel trim stops drifting? Is this like Minority Report where a ball will drop and some part will be identified as a future offender and Tom Cruise will swoop in and replace my throttle body?



tom cruise is dreamy.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

No drama in here in a while......how's everyone's FSIs doing? I'm sure someone had to break down on the way to/from H20 in their FSI!!
-J. Hines


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> No drama in here in a while......how's everyone's FSIs doing? I'm sure someone had to break down on the way to/from H20 in their FSI!!
> -J. Hines


Tom Cruise swooped in and replaced my in tank pump, my FSI has been running like a champ!


----------



## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

Mine is happy.. just been neglecting to change my fuel filter.. but will asap, still runs CHERRY. :thumbup:


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## Micky32 (Sep 11, 2005)

Mine's running fine, 100k , 50k done since KO4 and no problems.


----------



## tarikata_cs (Mar 29, 2009)

I found this : http://www.revotechnik.com/index.php?mod=audi#stage3 and I do not clear Stage 3 KO4 REVO soft is for S3 inj or RS4?!


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

tarikata_cs said:


> I found this : http://www.revotechnik.com/index.php?mod=audi#stage3 and I do not clear Stage 3 KO4 REVO soft is for S3 inj or RS4?!



US and Canada Use RS4 injectors

Anywhere else in the world S3 injectors.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Funny how that works with the injector choices.......just don't try to get a Euro file flashed to your US car and be able to run S3 injectors. No way in hell they will let you....tried for 6 months before actually going K04 and settling for the RS4"Garden-hose injectors". 

Should have just got the hook-up with GolfRS and bought and ECM already flashed for the S3 Euro file from overseas and adapted it to my car.....lol. Too much trouble though, so I'll just keep my TDI badge on the back of my GLI that blows black smoke like a diesel under boost:laugh:. It is fun to have people pull up beside me at a light after doing a nice pull and blowing black smoke all over them as I pull away and have them say "Damn that diesel is fast!!" lol
-J. Hines

On the plus side, my compression is still 180-190 across the board at 160K miles after 45K miles on the RS4s. So they aren't washing down my walls too terribly bad although I do still get that fuel-saturated oil smell....guess that's a normal operating FSI though. Seems that way


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> Funny how that works with the injector choices.


When the software was developed S3 injectors had to be imported to the US and Canada but were over the counter in the rest of the world.

RS4 injectors you could walk into any Audi dealer and buy.

By the time the TT-S was in the US and injectors were more easily obtained we had too many customers rolling around with RS4 injectors on k04 applications to deal with having two possible injector files out there. We are not talking about green tops vs 550s on a 1.8t you can see this is a few hours labor just to check.

Rs4 injectors work just fine and are not related to any issues anyone has other then slightly more smoke. 

At this point we receive more calls thanking us for not making people buy a second set of injectors when going to a GT30 from a k04 then calls about why do we use Rs4 injectors on a KO4.


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## tarikata_cs (Mar 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> US and Canada Use RS4 injectors
> 
> Anywhere else in the world S3 injectors.


 Thank you!

I live in Europe but bought car from USA.What works for me


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

tarikata_cs said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I live in Europe but bought car from USA.What works for me


In that situation we would only have the RS4 injector files built since I believe the 06 A3 Us code is specific only to the US. Generally in cases like this in the past the car was coming back to the US so we used the RS4 injector files even when flashed outside the US. You would probably need to speak to your local Revo dealer and have them contact our head office in the UK.


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## tarikata_cs (Mar 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> In that situation we would only have the RS4 injector files built since I believe the 06 A3 Us code is specific only to the US. Generally in cases like this in the past the car was coming back to the US so we used the RS4 injector files even when flashed outside the US. You would probably need to speak to your local Revo dealer and have them contact our head office in the UK.


 Thank's again!
Speak with local dealer and he sed to use S3 inj...Maybe the difference is in gasoline type not for which country is made the car.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

tarikata_cs said:


> Thank's again!
> Speak with local dealer and he sed to use S3 inj...Maybe the difference is in gasoline type not for which country is made the car.



You MUST have your dealer contact our head office. He is basing this off the specs of the files he has or has sold for local cars. There are no files for those injectors built for your ecu. Please do not purchase any hardware until you have confirmed which they want you to run. Software does not exist for those injectors and your ecu ID if it is a US car.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

so on sat I took my car in to my buddy billy from RENNART and he inspected every probable cause for my car smoking @ idle including my turbo... it ended up being my race catch can kit so we installed a brand new pcv sysem and voalla no more smoke! so i guess what im getting at is if i run a street catch can kit my car shouldnt smoke right??


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

skateboy918 said:


> Chris-
> 
> Any word on the K04 software update? I think you might have mentioned it in this thread?


x2


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> so on sat I took my car in to my buddy billy from RENNART and he inspected every probable cause for my car smoking @ idle including my turbo... it ended up being my race catch can kit so we installed a brand new pcv sysem and voalla no more smoke! so i guess what im getting at is if i run a street catch can kit my car shouldnt smoke right??


Which catchcan setup are you running?


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> Which catchcan setup are you running?


The BSH race Kit


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

Chris-

Any word on the K04 software update? I think you might have mentioned it in this thread?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> The BSH race Kit


That's wierd......I run the BSH Race VTA kit and have my PCV port on the back of the valve cover capped off and I blow smoke, but it's black fuel from injectors. I burn a little less than a quart of oil every 5K miles, which I've done a for a long time now. My catch can fills up once every oil change during the Summer and 2-3 times per oil change in the winter. Mostly with moisture/fuel mixture with just the slightest frosting of oil vapor on the top. 

Weird how the catchcan caused that though. How long did you have it installed before it started acting up? Or was it instant?
-J. Hines


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> That's wierd......I run the BSH Race VTA kit and have my PCV port on the back of the valve cover capped off and I blow smoke, but it's black fuel from injectors. I burn a little less than a quart of oil every 5K miles, which I've done a for a long time now. My catch can fills up once every oil change during the Summer and 2-3 times per oil change in the winter. Mostly with moisture/fuel mixture with just the slightest frosting of oil vapor on the top.
> 
> Weird how the catchcan caused that though. How long did you have it installed before it started acting up? Or was it instant?
> -J. Hines


It was instant :/ but my oem pcv b4 the catch can was messed up too... now what is that you capped off? Maybe a pic?  by me not doing this would it hhave caused my car to smoke? (Now. When I say smoke I mean a lot! I would be embarrased @ stop light beacause my car would start creating clouds!) On hard excelleration yes it still smokes


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

skateboy918 said:


> Chris-
> 
> Any word on the K04 software update? I think you might have mentioned it in this thread?



I think they have a car scheduled in soon out of our UK office for testing with S3 injectors that they then were going to slap RS4 injectors in to do some updates on idle, cold start etc since they use those over there for the GT30 cars as well. From there we'll probably do some updates to the US files.


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

Can you provide any more of a specific ETA for the revised file to reach stateside? I for one am anxiously awaiting it.


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## 100% Euro (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I think they have a car scheduled in soon out of our UK office for testing with S3 injectors that they then were going to slap RS4 injectors in to do some updates on idle, cold start etc since they use those over there for the GT30 cars as well. From there we'll probably do some updates to the US files.


 Any more power to be had with the new file?


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Hey guys, was reading this thread and had a few questions. Im going K04 this winter and plan on keeping my Revo programming. I read something about throttle body issues. I replaced my factory throttle body with the BSH one, so I shouldnt have to worry about this issue, correct? Also, what else should I do to prepare for or look for before changing over? I recently changed plugs and coil packs. My car is currently at 55K miles, should I change my fuel filter? How do you guys like the K04 file? Thanks.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Hey guys, was reading this thread and had a few questions. Im going K04 this winter and plan on keeping my Revo programming. I read something about throttle body issues. I replaced my factory throttle body with the BSH one, so I shouldnt have to worry about this issue, correct? Also, what else should I do to prepare for or look for before changing over? I recently changed plugs and coil packs. My car is currently at 55K miles, should I change my fuel filter? How do you guys like the K04 file? Thanks.


 I believe you meant to say you have the BSH throttle body pipe. The failure this thread was created to discuss is the throttle the failure body itself. So there is a good chance you'll end up replacing it at some point. As for anything else, I'd recommend a PCV system fix of some sort and just clean the intake valves and runner dividers really well when installing your RS4 injectors. Other than that the flash is awesome and produces a ton of power. It's a good feel, but has left me wanting more....so I'll be going to a GT3071r as soon as my other projects make some progress and my funds come together 
-J. Hines


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Yea, i meant throttle body pipe. Was planning on cleaning the valves while the manifold was off. Thanks for the heads up. Im running the 42 DD catch can, so Im good there. Yea, the K04 has a lot of power, i cant wait. Thanks. The only bad thing is I have to wait till spring, installing everything while in shop. Thanks.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Stop deleting and reposting your stupid for sale post!!!!


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Stop deleting and reposting your stupid for sale post!!!!


Chris,

Waiting for you to get back to me about my K04 file. Whats up???


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Stop deleting and reposting your stupid for sale post!!!!


George would have never posted that.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

crew219 said:


> George would have never posted that.



Great, but that's ironic for more reasons then you are aware of.

He has posted and deleted it everyday for the last week, it has nothing to do with this thread and its spam as well as a violation of the rules.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Guys, easy. Geez. Have a: :beer:


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

for everyone who has already changed their throttle body:

Is anyone having issues with cold starts? I have been having issues since mid AUGUST, where it takes 10-15 seconds of cranking before my car will start


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

skateboy918 said:


> for everyone who has already changed their throttle body:
> 
> Is anyone having issues with cold starts? I have been having issues since mid AUGUST, where it takes 10-15 seconds of cranking before my car will start


Check the part number on your in-tank pump. There was a revision number made in late 2007 and installed in most 2008 cars. I began to get a prolonged cold-start due to the pressure retention valve in my tank pump going bad. 

I have noticed in the past 3 weeks with the weather dropping below 45* of a morning a stumbling issues when first starting the car. No MIL or anything, but when it first starts, I have to let it idle a second before trying to move at all really. Usually I just baby the car and stay out of boost until it hits operating temps., but this is a little different. Hopefully clearing the faults and letting the ECM readapt will help a little.....we'll see.
-J. Hines


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

jhines_06gli said:


> Check the part number on your in-tank pump. There was a revision number made in late 2007 and installed in most 2008 cars. I began to get a prolonged cold-start due to the pressure retention valve in my tank pump going bad.
> 
> I have noticed in the past 3 weeks with the weather dropping below 45* of a morning a stumbling issues when first starting the car. No MIL or anything, but when it first starts, I have to let it idle a second before trying to move at all really. Usually I just baby the car and stay out of boost until it hits operating temps., but this is a little different. Hopefully clearing the faults and letting the ECM readapt will help a little.....we'll see.
> -J. Hines



is there a way to use vagcom to check the PN in the intake fuel pump?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

skateboy918 said:


> is there a way to use vagcom to check the PN in the intake fuel pump?


No, just lift the back seat on the passenger side and pop the black cover off. The part number is right on the top of the pump housing. You don't have to remove the pump or anything like that. Also check the part number on the fuel pump control module.....there have been several revisions to that little guy since 2006 as well.....it usually causes lack of power or straight up no-start though.
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

And my Too Rich at idle fault is back....YAY!!!  Came back on last night. Fuel trims are in the neighborhood of -6% in MVB 32, but at -23% in MVB 33 for live data from front O2. And MVB 107 for adaption is at -25%. 

Go figure with the onset of the cold weather this happens just like every other year!!! Also have a slightly delayed start when the car has been sitting for 10-12 hours. Back to the drawing boards guys.....actually thought for some reason the throttle body fixed my issues.....Silly me:banghead:
-J. Hines


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

I don't have any codes but my start up is very hesitant when will we find a damn sollutionn! :banghead:


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

do a throttle body adaption? I have to when the weather swings a bit


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

mrbikle said:


> do a throttle body adaption? I have to when the weather swings a bit


Haven't yet.....the throttle body being replaced is what fixed the fault a few months ago. It's about time to clean the injectors and valves and change cam follower anyways.....so I guess that'll be on the agenda for next week. I need to just go GT30r and switch the hell to Unitronics!!! lol I love the K04 and all, but this file is BS in the winter.....every year the same issues with cold-start and all.
-J. Hines


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Man....Ive been watching this thread for a while. Waiting on Chris to have a file built for my B6. Looking at all these complaints make me scared of Revos K04 file. If I park my Passat in winter what else should I keep an eye on?


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

My rich codes are back. New APR HPFP installed and fresh oil.










Was getting some misfires when letting off of WOT. Need to check plugs though.


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

I'm not getting this file installed until Revo releases a revised version. This is B.S.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

brekdown29 said:


> I'm not getting this file installed until Revo releases a revised version. This is B.S.


I fell you. I dont even have my K04 installed yet and am afraid about the tune. My car is running so smooth at stage 2+ right now. Chris, please chime in!


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

staulkor said:


> My rich codes are back. New APR HPFP installed and fresh oil.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep.....that's mine exactly. As for the misfires up top, change your plugs out and close the gap slightly. Think I ended up finding a sweet-spot around 28-30. But the thing that sucks is when I am running this rich, I get 15-20K miles out of my plugs at most.....after that they are toasted and I start breaking up at 4200+. And 15-20K miles takes me a few months to accumulate since I drive a LOT!!! 

This is really starting to piss me off because I'm running a 165K miles FSI around rich as hell on 25+PSI. I'm sure my rings are being killed from all the fuel that mixes in with our oil. Gonna pull my intake and clean the valves and check everything out along with all new injector seals and cleaning the injector tips this week. Also gonna check my follower and probably replaced it to make 100% sure there is nothing going on with my engine mechanics. Not pointing the finger at REVO, just think it's funny we all have the SAME EXACT tune and very similar mods with the SAME EXACT fault and issues. Need to finish my damn Rabbit build so I can start saving for a GT30R and my free software switch to Unitronics for some reliable fun!!!
-J. Hines


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

yes I agree, this is very strange.

I noticed my MPG has gone from 24-25 city down to 22-23 city and 28-30 highway down to 25-27 highway now....


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Jhines: does UNi have a K04 file with RS4 injectors? If not, can they change the S3 file to accomodate the RS4's?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

skateboy918 said:


> yes I agree, this is very strange.
> 
> I noticed my MPG has gone from 24-25 city down to 22-23 city and 28-30 highway down to 25-27 highway now....


Same here.....I've lost about 3 mpg on highway. And Uni only has S3 file. Their BT files are the only ones with RS4 inj.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Same here.....I've lost about 3 mpg on highway. And Uni only has S3 file. Their BT files are the only ones with RS4 inj.


So if you guys suspect the Revo K04 tune is causing cold start and rich running issues, what about the guys running the GT3071 kits with Revo tune and RS4 injectors, similar issues?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

bostonaudi1 said:


> So if you guys suspect the Revo K04 tune is causing cold start and rich running issues, what about the guys running the GT3071 kits with Revo tune and RS4 injectors, similar issues?


From talking to the guys with the BT files....they aren't having the same fault issues. Still have the harsh idle quality when it's cold out and the puffs of black smoke on accel. But all that is sorta expected when the weather gets pretty extreme. What we're fighting is the damn fault.......with the fault present, the ECM starts pulling everything back to "Save" the engine and I can feel the power loss and see the fuel mileage loss. 

People have told me it's due to the piston-top design being different from 2.0FSI to RS4, but I don't know how much truth is behind that. I know the RS4 has a different spray pattern than OE injectors for the FSI do. 
RS4 Piston Styling









2.0FSI Piston Styling









I dunno......hopefully something will be revealed when removing my intake to clean everything and do my routine maint. stuff. Also gonna grab some compression readings from the engine as I haven't since rolling over 160K miles. But we'll see.......thought I just got lucky by having the throttle body correct my issues. Guess not, and I held onto my old one as well. May have that one modified with the metal flapper and prevent future failures when going bigger turbo and W/M!!
-J. Hines


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

jhines_06gli said:


> People have told me it's due to the piston-top design being different from 2.0FSI to RS4, but I don't know how much truth is behind that. I know the RS4 has a different spray pattern than OE injectors for the FSI do.
> RS4 Piston Styling


From the study guide:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

crew219 said:


> From the study guide:


Yea....I noticed after I posted my pic that didn't look right. The ones I posted are aftermarket. The OE ones are like you posted.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

So if I go 3071r some issues will be resolved? And do I have to do both pistons and connecting rods or just the rods? I think it may be time for BT... what's the max whp the dsg can handle? Appreciate the help :thumbup:


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

I am starting to get tempted to dump the RS4 injectors, get S3, and jump software ship.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

staulkor said:


> I am starting to get tempted to dump the RS4 injectors, get S3, and jump software ship.


If that is the case, find the injectors and call up Unitronics and talk to the guys. We are a Uni dealer, but they told me hands down they would fix my issues 110% and I would gain hp overall from a better A/F mixture if I got S3s and went with them. I'm still borderline with doing that, just wanna at least keep my RS4 injectors for when my K04 gets tired of me beating on it and I go GT30. Just hate to spend the money on S3s when I know I'm going bigger down the road.
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> So if I go 3071r some issues will be resolved? And do I have to do both pistons and connecting rods or just the rods? I think it may be time for BT... what's the max whp the dsg can handle? Appreciate the help :thumbup:


Rods need to be replaced if you go above 350ish hp. As for the pistons, most guys leave them unless you are trying to change you compression. As for the DSG....I know guys are running GT30rs at pretty decent boost on them, you'll just be wanting to get some DSG software and eventually you'll need the upgraded wet clutches if you go that high in hp.
-J. Hines


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

my too rich code hasn't been back since swapping TB's, but my low pressure fuel one is.. .next step, in-tank pump. 

:banghead:


I can't relate to these cold start issues.. it doesn't get too much colder that 60 here. 

opcorn:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

joeyvdubGLI said:


> my too rich code hasn't been back since swapping TB's, but my low pressure fuel one is.. .next step, intake pump.
> 
> :banghead:
> 
> ...


Took my fault almost 15K limes to come back after swapping the t/b. About 4 months total time with no MIL.
-J. Hines


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Took my fault almost 15K limes to come back after swapping the t/b. About 4 months total time with no MIL.
> -J. Hines


Ok thanks, I'll watch for it then.. did an auto scan last night, still good.


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

I too as very sad to say that my TOO RICH AT IDLE code has returned after 6 months of it being gone after replacing my throttle body with a BRAND NEW throttle body :banghead:

REVO - any news on this issue?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Think it's time to make the GLI my "toy" that I drive rarely and use my MKII and MKI as my daily....LOL. Sad to say, but my VR-swapped MKII is soooo much more reliable than this thing! Not quite as fun to drive(yet!). But once I finish my MKI with the K04-powered 1.8T, may just have to find something to do with the GLI........either just change things up completely or go back stock and call a truce with the FSI! We had a good run...lol
-J. Hines

Hopefully I'll find something when taking my intake off for routine cleaning and inspection, but I'm not expecting to now that there are several of us with the issue. COME ON REVO!!!! STEP UP!!!! Think I'm gonna give Uni a call and see if they can offer me some tech support on diagnosing this one. If for no other reason, just to find the weak link in the software and fix it for you guys. But I think I'm done.....going over to Uni with my K04 file ASAP and see what happens.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> Think it's time to make the GLI my "toy" that I drive rarely and use my MKII and MKI as my daily....LOL. Sad to say, but my VR-swapped MKII is soooo much more reliable than this thing! Not quite as fun to drive(yet!). But once I finish my MKI with the K04-powered 1.8T, may just have to find something to do with the GLI........either just change things up completely or go back stock and call a truce with the FSI! We had a good run...lol
> -J. Hines
> 
> Hopefully I'll find something when taking my intake off for routine cleaning and inspection, but I'm not expecting to now that there are several of us with the issue. COME ON REVO!!!! STEP UP!!!! Think I'm gonna give Uni a call and see if they can offer me some tech support on diagnosing this one. If for no other reason, just to find the weak link in the software and fix it for you guys. But I think I'm done.....going over to Uni with my K04 file ASAP and see what happens.


Since you deal with Uni, why not see if they will build a K04 file with RS4 injectors? Id be interested, and Im sure others would be too. It would save money over buying new injectors and new tune.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Since you deal with Uni, why not see if they will build a K04 file with RS4 injectors? Id be interested, and Im sure others would be too. It would save money over buying new injectors and new tune.


Yea......I've mentioned it, but not a whole lot of feedback. From what they say the RS4 injectors in general just are "Saturation" injectors with the way they spray.......he says the S3 file is stupid b/c fuel trims are dead on and power is above and beyond the others out there, but yet to ride in one since everyone around here is REVO and APR. But hopefully will soon!!!! I'm gonna bring it up again and see what they say, but not holding my breathe on it.
-J. Hines


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> Yea......I've mentioned it, but not a whole lot of feedback. From what they say the RS4 injectors in general just are "Saturation" injectors with the way they spray.......he says the S3 file is stupid b/c fuel trims are dead on and power is above and beyond the others out there, but yet to ride in one since everyone around here is REVO and APR. But hopefully will soon!!!! I'm gonna bring it up again and see what they say, but not holding my breathe on it.
> -J. Hines


Hmmm.......can you get a good deal on S3 injectors then? I`m thinking of going to Uni after reading this and other threads about Revo`s K04 file. Plus, Chris has not got back to me about building a K04 file for my B6.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Hmmm.......can you get a good deal on S3 injectors then? I`m thinking of going to Uni after reading this and other threads about Revo`s K04 file. Plus, Chris has not got back to me about building a K04 file for my B6.



Your file will be done this week, it was never officially requested other then your PMs so unfortunately that doesn't get top priority. The tuner was also out tuning stuff in other countries for a few weeks but I Was told friday it was near the top of the list.

We have an ed30 in currently that is supposed to be getting some RS4 injectors for testing.

When i have news of progress on addressing the fuel trim code I'll post.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Your file will be done this week, it was never officially requested other then your PMs so unfortunately that doesn't get top priority. The tuner was also out tuning stuff in other countries for a few weeks but I Was told friday it was near the top of the list.
> 
> We have an ed30 in currently that is supposed to be getting some RS4 injectors for testing.
> 
> When i have news of progress on addressing the fuel trim code I'll post.


:wave: Thanks. This is what Ive been waiting on.


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Your file will be done this week, it was never officially requested other then your PMs so unfortunately that doesn't get top priority. The tuner was also out tuning stuff in other countries for a few weeks but I Was told friday it was near the top of the list.
> 
> We have an ed30 in currently that is supposed to be getting some RS4 injectors for testing.
> 
> When i have news of progress on addressing the fuel trim code I'll post.


The thing with this issue is that it takes around 6 months for the problem to rear it's head, wasn't any long term testing done with the initial development car?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

skateboy918 said:


> The thing with this issue is that it takes around 6 months for the problem to rear it's head, wasn't any long term testing done with the initial development car?



Which generally means it ISN'T software....

But we are looking into it. No test cars had this issue with either k04s or GT30s, testing was going on for over 2 years. 

The reason we have the edition 30 in is because they get this same code on factory S3 injectors on stock cars, Vw did long term testing on their development cars and still has a problem.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Alright.....I think we have done this once before, but I cannot find the thread. Trying to get to the bottom of this since it looks like it's up to us who have the issues to resolve it. If you have the fault(Too Rich at Idle).......post up what your car/mods are that would be relevant. I guess I'll start.....see if we can find a common factor(other than software obviously.)

2006 GLI 6MT, 164K miles and engine has never been gone through. Oil changed every 
5K at dealer with Castrol Syn. 5-40 as supplied by VW.
-REVO K04 file with RS4s
-OEM AUDI K04 turbo
-HPFPUpgrade.com STG II HPFP("K" N276 HPFP used for rebuild)
-KMD follower
-HPFPUpgrade.com STG II rail valve(142 BAR)
-Neuspeed CAI with extension
-Neuspeed Turbo Discharge pipe
-Neuspeed throttle body pipe
-EuroSport Downpipe with 100-cell metal cat.
-Open 2.5" catback with nothing 
-EuroJet DV relocate
-Custom FMIC and 2.5" piping(No leaks)
-BSH VTA race catchcan (Rear PCV blocked)

All the known failure parts on my car have been replaced with the newest revisions:
-IMRC motor
-Fuel rail pressure switch
-G410 fuel pressure switch
-In-tank pump and fuel pump module both latest revisions
-Throttle body(3 months old)....also have been rewired with 2" extensions
-New MAF sensor(6 months old)

I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for here, but if there are enough variations of manufacturer groups and we all still have the same faults, then it should rule out some things. Like HPFPs although REVO still insists I install a BRAND NEW off-the-shelf unit and drive my car around to see if that fixes it. Which I could do....I have one BRAND NEW "K" HPFP, but since it's not the issue......why waste my time with it since I've swapped out 3 or 4 different manufacturer HPFPs into my car and back into other cars which have no issues. 

But anyways, hopefully this may open up some window of opportunity since I'll be tearing the GLI apart to examine everything and see if there is anything mechanical that appears to be the causal problem. I'll also be posting up current compression readings as it's time to do that again. Last numbers were 180-190PSI on all 4 cylinders, so I don't see if being much different this time as it's only been 24K miles and I'm not burning any more oil than normal(0.5 QT/5K).
Thanks guys,
-J. Hines


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Alright since people are getting unnecessarily hostile again lets go over a few things.

At this point at MOST 2 people have actually contact us directly about this problem. A post on a forum with a bunch of random people is not exactly the best way to get a company in any industry to completely revisit a product. I say at most because I think only one has actually contacted us directly and another was through their dealer.

There ARE cars out there with mechanical issues and regardless of tuner the first thing everyone is going to recommend is that the car be gone over. Just because you replaced a part of because a "better" aftermarket one was installed does not automatically mean that it is fine. So yes the first thing we are going to ask anyone to do is to check parts. Upgraded HPFP regardless of manufacture are well known to fail and even on bone stock cars will cause this code and fuel trims, this is why we recommend people check this first. 

At one point in time it seemed everyone here agreed that it was the throttle and it was claimed to have been fixing peoples cars so we backed off looking into it. Again not one single person has contacted us in the past months letting us know the problem has returned. Forums are an excellent place for sharing knowledge, they are still not your first line of communication to letting a manufacture know you have a problem that you would like them to address. 


If everyone having this code could send an email to [email protected] with the following information we can get a much better idea of how many people are having a problem:

Name and forum name just to make things easier to track
Date and place of flash (approximate is fine)
When the issue started
The actual DTC and fuel trims if you have them.
List of modifications similar to J posted above. (ENGINE only we don't need to know if you have led turn signal bulbs)

If you have tried a throttle body please include that on the list
If you have tried a 100% brand new bone stock from VW/Audi HPFP include that on the list.
If you have a neuspeed intake, take it off!


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> If you have a neuspeed intake, take it off!


Funny how you say that.....All these people were having issues with them, but everyone I know started out with this intake and not one single one of us have had an issue related to it. I know there are still 2 of us running the original version before the MAF relocation and still having no issues. 

But yes......I'll send in an e-mail. And yes, I have before. I've called before, PMed, e-mailed, contacted local tuner who did flash. Got the same result every time and spent TONS of time on hold! But regardless I'll send the info in.

-J. Hines


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

I literally got the CEL right after flashing my car with the new software around 20 months ago and the code is still here. I'm not sending an email, I've already sent many emails to REVO when the problem first came out. You can check my threads on here and golfmkv if you wish. I'm pretty dead set on this spring taking off the wastegate and switching softwares.


http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/mygolf.php?do=view&id=2363


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Joeydabomb said:


> I literally got the CEL right after flashing my car with the new software around 20 months ago and the code is still here. I'm not sending an email, I've already sent many emails to REVO when the problem first came out. You can check my threads on here and golfmkv if you wish. I'm pretty dead set on this spring taking off the wastegate and switching softwares.


Your last attempt to contact us was april 5th 2010 and the only information you gave me was that you had the fault code. Your fuel trims were -6.6 and 2.7 at the time. You also confirmed you had a catch can, beyond that you have not provided us with any information.

Kind of hard to help you when you refuse to actually give us any information. A quick email with information about your car seems a lot cheaper then 700 bucks for another tune. For the record, you sent a total of 7 emails one of which was a request for stickers and every email you sent was responded to including the last one which was just about our thoughts on the RS4 fuel valve. 

If you were still having problems for the past 18 months I see no attempt to contact us about it, if you don't let us know you are having a problem we have no idea it needs to be addressed.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Your last attempt to contact us was april 5th 2010 and the only information you gave me was that you had the fault code. Your fuel trims were -6.6 and 2.7 at the time. You also confirmed you had a catch can, beyond that you have not provided us with any information.
> 
> Kind of hard to help you when you refuse to actually give us any information. A quick email with information about your car seems a lot cheaper then 700 bucks for another tune. For the record, you sent a total of 7 emails one of which was a request for stickers and every email you sent was responded to including the last one which was just about our thoughts on the RS4 fuel valve.
> 
> If you were still having problems for the past 18 months I see no attempt to contact us about it, if you don't let us know you are having a problem we have no idea it needs to be addressed.


Attempts were made through the local REVO dealer, so it's not fully on you. If there was no case made between them and you at that time it's there fault, not yours. But he was using your name an awful lot and the recommendations that you said must be done first. And I had to show proof of installing the parts to him, etc. Although he knows for a fact I'm a tech for VW and have access to any of the mentioned parts needed to swap, which I have.

And as for the software switch.....would be free given the software companies we push....just would need S3 injectors. But I'm trying to stick with you guys til I go bigger turbo IF we can get this resolved. The numbers from the S3 injector files are higher on the dynos with other companies at lower boost levels due to efficiency of fuel being burned. But regardless, for the sake of myself and the others in the thread, just trying to help get the issue resolved so I can keep my RS4s installed for when the time goes to go bigger turbo. Just don't want to keep washing down my cylinder and contaminate my oil with more fuel than already gets in there through a DI engine. Rather not need a crank due to spun bearings that lost all coating due to fuel in the oil all the time.
-J. Hines

But just let us know what is needed on your part if anything other than what has already been stated and we'll get that info to you. Maybe a team effort from all of us will actually get somewhere on solving this issue this time. Tired of the band aid fixes for this.


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Your last attempt to contact us was april 5th 2010 and the only information you gave me was that you had the fault code. Your fuel trims were -6.6 and 2.7 at the time. You also confirmed you had a catch can, beyond that you have not provided us with any information.
> 
> Kind of hard to help you when you refuse to actually give us any information. A quick email with information about your car seems a lot cheaper then 700 bucks for another tune. For the record, you sent a total of 7 emails one of which was a request for stickers and every email you sent was responded to including the last one which was just about our thoughts on the RS4 fuel valve.
> 
> If you were still having problems for the past 18 months I see no attempt to contact us about it, if you don't let us know you are having a problem we have no idea it needs to be addressed.


I stopped emailing you because I was told it was an issue that was being looked into. I gave all the information that you asked for at the time, I'm not quite sure what else I could have done as a consumer. I'm not going to nag you weekly to tell you nothing has changed, that's not who I am. 

If you feel like me sending an email to your main office will help the resolution of this problem then I will do it but I'm not getting my hopes up on a fix to this problem. It's been almost 2 years of people having this problem and my faith in a easy solution is long gone. I feel like I've been good customer for Revo and even advertised their logo in my signature on the other forum, trust me I would love for there be a fix to the problem but I just can't see it happening because I don't think it's the tuning that's the problem rather the choice of injectors. At this point I just want to be able to enjoy my car problem free and come this spring I'm going to do that with whatever software I can.


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> If you have a neuspeed intake, take it off!


Put the OEM back on I assume...


Does the OEM even fit with the AWE DV relocation kit?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Joeydabomb said:


> Put the OEM back on I assume...
> 
> 
> Does the OEM even fit with the AWE DV relocation kit?


No.......OE won't work with a DV relocate kit.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

I've swapped my TB taken it to my tuner I don't have a check engine just the fact that I can't start my car in the wiinter sucks its not being driven this year but I still would like starting it a few times a week without it stalling :banghead:


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> Attempts were made through the local REVO dealer, so it's not fully on you. If there was no case made between them and you at that time it's there fault, not yours. But he was using your name an awful lot and the recommendations that you said must be done first..


My reply was clearly not to you, which was pretty obvious seeing as I quoted exactly who I was responding to.

That being said, yes you are a tech but you fought with our dealer every step of the way. You were demanding he and Revo help you but you kept refusing to try the things we suggested.

Sorry but the neuspeed intake has to come off or we cannot move forward with your vehicle. It has been known to cause too many problems and we cannot diagnose a car running it. We are not dealing with this crap again like victor 2 years ago who kept lying about taking it off then once he did all his problems finally went away.

So far joeydabomb is the only one who has emailed us a list of modifications, he also has a neuspeed intake (shocking). There is also another common factor I'm not liking between the two but waiting to see if anyone else actually sends us a list.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Joeydabomb said:


> I stopped emailing you because I was told it was an issue that was being looked into. I gave all the information that you asked for at the time, I'm not quite sure what else I could have done as a consumer. I'm not going to nag you weekly to tell you nothing has changed, that's not who I am.
> 
> If you feel like me sending an email to your main office will help the resolution of this problem then I will do it but I'm not getting my hopes up on a fix to this problem. It's been almost 2 years of people having this problem and my faith in a easy solution is long gone. I feel like I've been good customer for Revo and even advertised their logo in my signature on the other forum, trust me I would love for there be a fix to the problem but I just can't see it happening because I don't think it's the tuning that's the problem rather the choice of injectors. At this point I just want to be able to enjoy my car problem free and come this spring I'm going to do that with whatever software I can.



We got your email thank, without the information of what installed we cannot work to sort this out. Despite what everyone here thinks this is not every car that has the software. The forums only represent a tiny portion of the actual VW aftermarket. 

There is a big difference between nagging every 2 weeks and not contacting a company for over a year and a half. If people are not in contact with us we have no clue there is a problem. You don't post on a forum when you get in a car accident and hope your insurance company sees it so they can cut you a check. We did check in on this thread and for hte past year plus most people have been saying they changed their TB and it went away. Again from what we could tell no one was saying they had problems and even the forums were saying the issues were hardware. We can't read minds. 

The injectors are absolutely 100% not the problem, the myths about them just need to end. 

Put a stock intake or at this point anything but that neuspeed one on your car and check the fuel trims again after a few days. I'm not thinking that is the main issue right now actually but i'm waiting for some other people with supposedly problems to actually contact us. But that intake is known to cause problems and we will not diag or tune a car around it.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> But that intake is known to cause problems and we will not diag or tune a car around it.


So the first 3 years I ran the Neuspeed intake without a single issue and now there is something wrong with it? That's a little odd. Intake was fine STG 1 with APR and with REVO as well as STG 2 with APR and with REVO. And even was fine with REVO STG 2+. And it's kinda hard to run a stock intake on our cars when the K04 does not have a place for the DV so we have to run a DV relocate. And you won't justify switching software to fix the issue, but you can justify spending $200+ to swap intakes and get a MAF reading that "may" work out better for the REVO software? If I'm going to do that, why not just spend a little more money and get S3 injectors that are proven to be ideal for the K04 setup and have the same exact characteristics as the factory injectors in the FSI engines and are used in Europe for the S3s with no issues? 

I'm in this for the watching and "learning" I guess, but that's it. You'll have my info an all stuff today(not like it matters since I have a intake that isn't "certified" by REVO). Hopefully you guys find something, but until then I'll keep digging on my own try to keep the car running til warm weather comes back.
-J. Hines


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> not like it matters since I have a intake that isn't "certified" by REVO.



You are running our software that is meant to work with certain hardware. Just the same as we don't want you running a k03 on this software or a gt28 series turbo on this software we can say what intakes work and don't work. 

I have NEVER seen the neuspeed intake properly work in this application, in some cases they just aren't that bad and that is a best case scenario. APR has actually posted right on these forums that their kit must be used with a stock intake in order for them to support it. We are doing the same and we have the right to. 

This is no different then the 1.8t stage 3 crowd that use any turbo and injector that they want and demand that we fix the software to work with hardware we have never said it was meant to work with. Yes as a tuner we can specify what hardware is or is not used with the tuning because not everything works. We have stated for several years now that the nuespeed intake is known to cause problems and that we do not want it installed on cars running our software.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> And it's kinda hard to run a stock intake on our cars when the K04 does not have a place for the DV so we have to run a DV relocate.


There are 10s of thousands of k04 equipped vehicles running around from the factory just fine with a DV and stock intakes.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> APR has actually posted right on these forums that their kit must be used with a stock intake in order for them to support it. We are doing the same and we have the right to.


http://www.revotechnik.com/index.php?mod=volkswagen#stage3

*Stage3 K04 for 2.0T FSI Transverse K03 based vehicles

Required: K04 turbo (S3, TTS, Ed30, Cupra)
Injectors; Please consult with your Revo support office or specific vehicle listing for 
your region for injector specification
Turbo back exhaust without pre-cat and either decat or highflow catalytic convertor 
(2.5"-3.0" recommended)
Cold Air intake (from turbo inlet pipe to front of car replacing factory airbox for 
best gains)
Uprated or additional intercooler (S3 uses larger stock IC but additional IC is 
recommended)
Highflow mechanical fuel pump
Associated hardware for fitting and installation is required for the turbo upgrade.*

This straight from the REVO website and has not changed since the launch of the K04 file. I know APR says that as we have had issues with even the Carbonia intakes they sell on the K04 kits. But they state it now after they know of the issue. REVO has known about and backed the decision to not support Neuspeed for years now and not changed the info that the customer's go off of when consulting which kit/software to get and what supporting mods they need. When you know something is an issue and your engineers stand behind the fact it's an issue......you should pass the info on. And as you called us out on doing through the forums. Forum is informative only.....so why post on here that the intake is an issue and not put anything on REVO's official site? 

So what intakes do you guys back up? OE only?....because that POS airbox will not make it's way back onto my car. If that's the only way to stay REVO, then so-be-it. I know for a fact that Unitronics figured out a way to make the software universal to whatever intake with no faults (Granted they use different injectors). And hell.......we are finally even to the point of running BT files with companies without the MAF at all using the boost pressure and sensors only. All software is the same right? Just a map-based program that changes the parameters input by the supplier. It's just the various companies are out for the best drive-ability while still getting the highest power and torque out of the setup. 
-J. Hines


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

^^^^ LOL!


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> There are 10s of thousands of k04 equipped vehicles running around from the factory just fine with a DV and stock intakes.


K04 FSIs(BPY engines)? They came equipped in European cars which run different injectors and totally different ECMs from what I was told. I wanted the Euro flash when I went K04 to retain the S3 injectors......even have the capability to get the Euro ECM and adapt it to my car if needed. But I was told that the Euro files were not accessible to US market(which is BS). But if the effort would have been made, would have been extremely easy to have 2 flashes available for the K04 cars here in America early on with 2 different injector choices. Not that hard at all.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> K04 FSIs(BPY engines)? They came equipped in European cars which run different injectors and totally different ECMs from what I was told. I wanted the Euro flash when I went K04 to retain the S3 injectors......even have the capability to get the Euro ECM and adapt it to my car if needed. But I was told that the Euro files were not accessible to US market(which is BS). But if the effort would have been made, would have been extremely easy to have 2 flashes available for the K04 cars here in America early on with 2 different injector choices. Not that hard at all.



The files for S3 injectors and US ecu IDs do not exist as these ecus are exclusive to the US market. There are no "euro" files that are accessible for the US market because they simply don't exist. The 1k0 907 115B your 2006 would have is not built for S3 injectors in any part of the world. 

It would also NOT be extremely easy to have two flashes. I've been doing his long enough to know that people often have no clue what is on their car. Having two flashes for injectors that take several hours to pull and check will cause a support nightmare down the road when all these cars are on their second and third owners.

Again there is NOTHING wrong with the RS4 injectors in this application, they run perfectly fine with the GT30 cars which do not have any rich at idle codes, or at least none that have been reported to us. We do run the RS4 injectors in 100s of GT30 equipped cars around the world. 

This however has nothing to do with the fact that you can absolutely 100% fit a DV, a K04 and a stock intake on this engine because it comes like that right from the factory.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> This straight from the REVO website and has not changed since the launch of the K04 file. I know APR says that as we have had issues with even the Carbonia intakes they sell on the K04 kits. But they state it now after they know of the issue. REVO has known about and backed the decision to not support Neuspeed for years now and not changed the info that the customer's go off of when consulting which kit/software to get and what supporting mods they need. When you know something is an issue and your engineers stand behind the fact it's an issue......you should pass the info on. And as you called us out on doing through the forums. Forum is informative only.....so why post on here that the intake is an issue and not put anything on REVO's official site?



Just because we allow for the use of aftermarket intakes does not mean they all Work, we do have the right to say that in order to figure this out starting at square one with a stock intake is recomended. We ran stock intake cars all over the world and had no issues RS4 or S3 injectors. Our in house car in the US ran an AEM intake without any fuel trim issues. We had about 5 cars running the KMD kit all of which had no issues using their intake or OEM intakes. 


For the record the website has actually changed, I believe you actually quoted it in the past right in this thread or a similar one screaming about S3 injectors at one point.


We are not going to officially knock one company our our website, that is extremely poor taste. However if you actually contact us with your issues. I went through and have not found since single email from you to Revo on this matter but thats besides the point. You just admitted that we have been saying for YEARS not to use the nuespeed intake but are now acting like this is the first time you have heard this. You can't have it both ways you either knew or you didn't know and now you are saying you knew that you were running hardware we have determined is a problem years ago. So we did in fact inform you.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We have stated for several years now that the nuespeed intake is known to cause problems and that we do not want it installed on cars running our software.


That's where I got my info on the intake. I personally have not seen one issue with the Neuspeed intake used with various software companies, but you have.

I was just pointing out that it says to use a CAI. You don't say....."Please contact us for an apporoved list of CAI". If you aren't going to back something you should say that for your customers!


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Just like with VWs and their oils. It's a car and you have to change your oil and put new oil in it. But you can't just put any oil in it or VW won't support failures. You have to use an oil from the list supplied by them. THEN they will address the issues that may come up with your engine. On the otherhand, REVO states no "list" of intakes to use.......just expects the customers to know. If you have guidelines and rules for something, you should list them! Who cares if you hurt people's feeling and burn bridges. REVO obviously doesn't support the Neuspeed product for the FSI, so why worry with hurting their feeling if it's what your company genuinely believes and stands behind. 

I stand behind the fact I think it's odd that all of us having the same fault and same issues with our K04-equipped FSIs have the same software company in common. It may be something mechanical wrong with our cars......wouldn't say you were wrong if it ends up being that. I'm just saying that it's funny all our cars would have the same mechanical failure when we probably have SOO much different when it comes to products installed and a common tune. That's why I asked for a list of everyone's mods and product line that they are using.......so we can cross-examine everything and try to get to the bottom of this. Not trying to be a d*ck about any of this, just would love to have the issue fixed permanently......I love working on the car(obviously since I've had it so long). Just don't like having to work on it for the same fault every couple of months with no results in the end!!
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Cleaned all valves, injectors and intake manifold runners last night and resealed everything. Drained the catchcan and got everything back together. Cleared the faults and did my compression checks. Cleaned and readapted throttle body and fired it up. Fuel trims still at -23.4% and idle is a little rough until it warms up a bit

Compression DRY is good still though, so engine is healthy. These readings were after cleaning and engine sitting 18 hours without being started. 
1- 205 PSI
2- 210 PSI
3- 200 PSI
4- 200 PSI
Cylinder leakage good at 5% or less on all 4 cylinders. Spark plugs still look pretty good although they are BLACK.

Here are few pictured for your viewing pleasure......been 42K miles since I cleaned them last since I have been working on MKI and MKII a lot lately. 

Catchcan drain picture is 2500 miles worth collected and it's not that cold here yet. And yes, I know the valve stem seals are seaping on cylinders 3/4....been like that for a LONG time now. But not getting any worse, so it can wait til full rebuild at 200K.


















Leaving these out again this time....have done it before a few times and see no real change. They'll be permanently out when I port head, but just leaving them in my toolbox for now.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

#1









#2









#3









#4









And this is the worse injector tip.....so all-in-all not too bad.









-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Wow major build up on #3 and #4 !!!

And considering all 4 have the same mileage... 

I was also thinking of leaving out those metal flaps this time.
Not going to remove the manifold ones but i don't think the metal ones
will have any ill effects (unless i am just unlucky and my car works with
stratified mode and this f*cks up everything.... :banghead: )

Btw what plugs are you using ? Is is possible you are using a too cold a plug ??


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> Wow major build up on #3 and #4 !!!
> 
> And considering all 4 have the same mileage...
> 
> ...


3/4 buildup you see that's shiny is from valve stem seals. I have one of the EARLY BPY engines built in 2005 and they were proned to this sort of leaking. I'm just not addressing it until I do my overhaul at 200K. The carbon buildup was not too bad in 3/4, you just think it looks a lot worse because the oil is saturated it and makes it look more 3D. 

I run OE plugs gapped down to .025". Gapped at .030" like they come from VW, I was blowing the spark out in 3rd and 4th gear under WOT pulls and picking up a nasty shutter!! But gapped down to .025" it's been perfect. Just have all the black on them constantly from the excess fuel I have coating them. And yea......I've had the metal dividers out before with no downside effects. Didn't really see any gains either, but I just like the fact of having the same airflow across the whole intake port as opposed to only 1/2. Makes buildup more even and not the HUGE amounts we usually see in the upper section.
-J. Hines

And by the way.........from last time I did plugs to this past time, VW has stopped using the BOSCH and now uses NGK plugs for the BPY engines. Look similar and gapped similar. I guess they're both still platinum considering the price. But for some reason they changed it up.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> 3/4 buildup you see that's shiny is from valve stem seals. I have one of the EARLY BPY engines built in 2005 and they were proned to this sort of leaking. I'm just not addressing it until I do my overhaul at 200K. The carbon buildup was not too bad in 3/4, you just think it looks a lot worse because the oil is saturated it and makes it look more 3D.
> 
> I run OE plugs gapped down to .025". Gapped at .030" like they come from VW, I was blowing the spark out in 3rd and 4th gear under WOT pulls and picking up a nasty shutter!! But gapped down to .025" it's been perfect. Just have all the black on them constantly from the excess fuel I have coating them. And yea......I've had the metal dividers out before with no downside effects. Didn't really see any gains either, but I just like the fact of having the same airflow across the whole intake port as opposed to only 1/2. Makes buildup more even and not the HUGE amounts we usually see in the upper section.
> -J. Hines
> ...


Depending on boost and timing it is almost necessary to close the gap on tuned engines.

What i am not completely convinced is the fact the coldest plug is the best one...

I have tried the 8's and although the car seemed to make more timing, somehow my fuel seemed
a bit off and it actually could be the increased timing might have been due to the richer
AFR with the colder plugs.I also noticed a lot of exhaust pops at idle.

After returning to 7's i noticed a lot more torque down low and generally smoother
function....

Oh btw have you tried testing with a NEW MAF sensor ?

Mine somehow was bad and was making my idle suck with lots of unburned fuel.

I have to agree with Chris that many time hardware failures may look like
software is responsible but is isn't. You should look for anything you might
have missed and can be fixed.I had lots of small stuff that added up into
a rich condition.


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

I have tried a MAF, but was last winter. I have one new one I believe, I'll throw it in. pretty much replaced everytbing else. Gonna throw a new fuel filter on too......been 25k miles or so.


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Well since my cleaning.....no MIL. Pretty sure it's still rich just by cold-starts and general driving around. But the weather has also been pretty warm here.....only in the 30s a few mornings. Gonna do the fuel filter again and that'lll be about EVERYTHING possible up to date!!
 -J. Hines

Also did my compression and leakdown tests as I do every 20K. I was 205-210PSI across all 4 cylinders and less than 5% leakage in any cylinder. So engine is still in tip top shape at 165K miles.


----------



## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Id like to change my fuel filter too, but it looks like mine is in the tank....:banghead:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Id like to change my fuel filter too, but it looks like mine is in the tank....:banghead:


Yep....Passat uses a filter on the tank pump element. It wouldn't be a bad idea to pull the unit out and check the sock and all every 40K or so. The tank seal is only like $8 to replace and I've seen those socks get pretty filthy. I guess mainly from the gas that sits in the bottom collecting all the gunk and dirt over time.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Been quiet in here..........hopefully we are getting somewhere with this. There is a cold front that has been here a few days and will stay for a little longer. So at least it's cold at night and in the mornings to screw with my FSI if possible.

So far I still have the delayed-start, but my fuel trims are in the good......so hopefully we're making progress here. Only time and Winter will tell
-J. Hines

Figured I'd try and keep this thread at the top of the FSI forums a little.......


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

I go on Monday to try some updated coding, we'll see how it goes. I'll keep everyone updated.


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Joeydabomb said:


> I go on Monday to try some updated coding, we'll see how it goes. I'll keep everyone updated.


Coding? Updated REVO software or a VW update?


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> Coding? Updated REVO software or a VW update?


Revo. I believe it's just a trial to try some new things out but hey it's progress in the right direction.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Joeydabomb said:


> Revo. I believe it's just a trial to try some new things out but hey it's progress in the right direction.


Let me know the results. I had mine flashed Monday with the K04 1b file and my buddy had the car up until last night. Fuel trims are good so far, but I cannot build boost past 15PSI. With wheels spinning it'll spike to 21PSI, but never holds over 15. Gonna run some logs tonight or tomorrow and see what's up. Just weird that happened only after the flash. Nothing was changed in the boost level according to engineers. My settings are the same at 9-6-9 and car pulls really strong, but at 15PSI, the wastegate flutters open and boost stops. 
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Let me know the results. I had mine flashed Monday with the K04 1b file and my buddy had the car up until last night. Fuel trims are good so far, but I cannot build boost past 15PSI. With wheels spinning it'll spike to 21PSI, but never holds over 15. Gonna run some logs tonight or tomorrow and see what's up. Just weird that happened only after the flash. Nothing was changed in the boost level according to engineers. My settings are the same at 9-6-9 and car pulls really strong, but at 15PSI, the wastegate flutters open and boost stops.
> -J. Hines


It could be the ECU sees a lean mixture and cuts back on boost.

I suggest you do some O2 sensor logs along with WG duty cycle and TB angle.

Trims don't mean much in this case trust me.

Been there done that.... :thumbup:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> It could be the ECU sees a lean mixture and cuts back on boost.
> 
> I suggest you do some O2 sensor logs along with WG duty cycle and TB angle.
> 
> ...


MVB 33 is front O2.......shows -2.8 to +2.1 constantly switching as it should. 
Throttle angle is constantly changing and shows no dead-spots. That's all I've ever looked 
for was the 2 fields being opposite on the drivers and them equal to 100%.
As for N75 valve......when you snap the throttle hard it will go to 90% or so like normal and 
when in steady boost, it will read right at 54% when the car stops pulling at 15PSI. 

All things look good right now as for readings, just need to figure out what requested value is off. I'm gonna compare to some logs from a few months ago and see what is different. I know valves are clean as I just did that and my timing pull is -2% at the HIGHEST when I'm under heavy accel. So that is good as well. 

Gonna take a little research and digging, but something will pop out at me. Curious to see what the demo flash does for the rest of you guys on your car.
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> MVB 33 is front O2.......shows -2.8 to +2.1 constantly switching as it should.
> Throttle angle is constantly changing and shows no dead-spots. That's all I've ever looked
> for was the 2 fields being opposite on the drivers and them equal to 100%.
> As for N75 valve......when you snap the throttle hard it will go to 90% or so like normal and
> ...


Do some logs from block 031 and see how specified vs actual lambda is doing.

I also like to log block 001 that is the lambda regulator and gives very good fuel info.

Also, n75 duty might show a change that corresponds to a "protective" function of the ECU.

Check for drop in n75 rate close to a lean lambda value.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Anyone got there tune updated yet? Curious to see your results
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Updates guys? Mine is still MIL free for the time being......been driving the VR a little too though, so only about 600 miles on it since reflash. Still boosting 15PSI, but feels pretty strong when it's cold out.
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Any updates guys? Any news on the new flash for the K04......results?
J. Hines


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

So far so good, no codes as of yet. It's very nice having a blank cluster, forgot what it looked like.

Still need to play with my settings as I'm not sure what the dealer set it at. Not sure what I'm boosting at since my ****ty eurojet boost gauge is not working again.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Joeydabomb said:


> So far so good, no codes as of yet. It's very nice having a blank cluster, forgot what it looked like.
> 
> Still need to play with my settings as I'm not sure what the dealer set it at. Not sure what I'm boosting at since my ****ty eurojet boost gauge is not working again.


Yea.......curious to see what your boost levels are. My settings are 9-6-9 since that's what I've been running for years now. Still just puzzled as to why my boost has dropped to 15PSI. But fuel trims are still good and we have a cold front coming through......so time for the real test!!
-J. Hines


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

*I know this is off topic....*

Hey guys, 

Installing my kit in a few weeks. Was wondering if anyone used the dv relocation kit from KMD tuning for OEM S3 K04 and if they had any pics. Was wondering what it looked like and if anyone is using a dv other than the Rev D with it. Thanks. Pics please.....


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## skevo (Jul 15, 2008)

J any updates? We have had some cold mornings here in the northeast in the last couple of days. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

skevo said:


> J any updates? We have had some cold mornings here in the northeast in the last couple of days.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


Still no MIL and not having any harder time than usual starting in the 18* weather. Still smokes like a freight train and all, but it seems to be running pretty decent. Got the bung for my wideband installed last week, so now just have to find time to wire the controller up and calibrate it all, then I can monitor everything a little better.

The only thing that still has me down is my boost........still seeing a peak spike of like 18PSI and then it will slowly creep to about 20-21 if I stay in the throttle hard. Just doesn't have the same kick it did when it was spiking 26PSI and holding 23-24. But oh well.......if the issue is fixed, then this will have to do until I go bigger turbo and rebuild the engine at 200K:laugh:
-J. Hines

Anything from the rest of you guys that are running the revised K04 file?


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

I'm glad your keeping the RPM's down on the K04 if I'm buying it off of you when you go BT:laugh:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SmithersSP said:


> I'm glad your keeping the RPM's down on the K04 if I'm buying it off of you when you go BT:laugh:


Let's put it this way.......there's a 2011 Mustang GT 5.0L with header-back exhaust, intake a tune that said he was rather embarrassed at what a family car did his car from a 50-roll on the highway. LOL But yea Pete......she's treated as a turbo should(for the most part)
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

And just FYI.......Unitronics has a running K04 with RS4 injector file. It's not perfect and there is no chance of making it perfect while keeping the power where they want it, so they have stopped development on it any further. But it's setup for 22PSI and has no fuel trim issues or anything like we were having, but in EXTREME cold climates it still has the shaking idle on cold-start. That's due to the injector spray pattern in comparison to the tops of the FSI pistons.......they just weren't made to work together!!

Just food for thought, I'm still up in the air whether to try that RS4 file or just buy the damn S3 injectors and go UNI's true K04 file and save the RS4s for the buildup in a year or so. Decisions, decisions!!!! I just want my boost and power back to where I was at this past Spring/Summer!!!...lol But with revised tune it feels like I've lost a great percentage of my torque or something...the car just doesn't throw you back like it used to.
-J. Hines


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> And just FYI.......Unitronics has a running K04 with RS4 injector file. It's not perfect and there is no chance of making it perfect while keeping the power where they want it, so they have stopped development on it any further. But it's setup for 22PSI and has no fuel trim issues or anything like we were having, but in EXTREME cold climates it still has the shaking idle on cold-start. That's due to the injector spray pattern in comparison to the tops of the FSI pistons.......they just weren't made to work together!!
> 
> Just food for thought, I'm still up in the air whether to try that RS4 file or just buy the damn S3 injectors and go UNI's true K04 file and save the RS4s for the buildup in a year or so. Decisions, decisions!!!! I just want my boost and power back to where I was at this past Spring/Summer!!!...lol But with revised tune it feels like I've lost a great percentage of my torque or something...the car just doesn't throw you back like it used to.
> -J. Hines


Well, after reading all this, I am now convinced that S3 injectors are the way to go, they were made for this engine. You also get choice of all other tuners except Revo - GIAC, APR, Uni etc.

I just bought them from ciocca parts (http://www.cioccaparts.com/) while on sale, for about $500 shipped, which was way cheaper than anyone else had them. 

So, after many years of Revo, waving goodbye, and hello Unitronics. Just waiting on arrival of HPFP pump (from the new guys). Still like Revo products, but I want the best setup possible for my K04.


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Well, after reading all this, I am now convinced that S3 injectors are the way to go, they were made for this engine. I just bought them from ciocca parts (http://www.cioccaparts.com/) while on sale, for about $500 shipped, which was way cheaper than anyone else had them. So, after many years of Revo, waving goodbye, and hello Unitronics. Just waiting on arrival of HPFP pump (from the new guys). Still like Revo products, but I want the best setup possible for my K04.


Getting the pump from HPFPUpgrade.com? 

And I'll be joining the switch to Uni when I go bigger turbo if not before. We'll see how funding goes for this project as the year progresses. I just wanna make it reliable at this point.....I have smaller, lighter cars with bigger plans than the GLI for now:laugh:
-J. Hines


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Getting the pump from HPFPUpgrade.com?
> 
> And I'll be joining the switch to Uni when I go bigger turbo if not before. We'll see how funding goes for this project as the year progresses. I just wanna make it reliable at this point.....I have smaller, lighter cars with bigger plans than the GLI for now:laugh:
> -J. Hines


Yes, HPFPUpgrade. I got mine from NAMotorsports, who is now stocking them, saves waiting for west coast delivery. I keep reading from others that the RS4's make power, but also make a lot of smoke. This would make sense if the spray pattern really isn't optimized for this motor. Although I still have to scratch my head with all the BT owners who run RS4's and who don't seem to have these issues. Oh well, not going to think about it anymore.


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Yes, HPFPUpgrade. I got mine from NAMotorsports, who is now stocking them, saves waiting for west coast delivery. I keep reading from others that the RS4's make power, but also make a lot of smoke. This would make sense if the spray pattern really isn't optimized for this motor. Although I still have to scratch my head with all the BT owners who run RS4's and who don't seem to have these issues. Oh well, not going to think about it anymore.


Yea.....I'd say for the person who wants to just make the "safe" power and have the more reliable daily driver, the def. go with the S3 injectors since they are stock in the Golf R with the K04 and intended to be ran in the engine!! I am on the other side of the fence though....lol. I like to push things to their limits and see what happens....lol. Guess that's from my JDM tuning days......broke a lot of stuff and made a lot of power!! 

But the RS4 injectors are the same even on the BT cars. It's just the fact that if you're running a GT30r or bigger on your 4-cylinder car, you've already came to the understanding that this is not going to be a "normal" running car. When you add that much power to anything, it's gonna be different than stock. But the injectors definitely smoke no matter what. The spray pattern allows for a spot on the piston where the fuel almost puddles when sprayed. If you look at my pistons in my car(168,000 miles). They are very clean, but there is almost a line where the fuel is sprayed more than everywhere else and that spot is as clean as a new piston!! So you can definitely tell the engine is not running at it's best "Enviroment-friendly" state. It's not hurting my engine because compression is still good and now fuel trims are right again.

And enjoy the fuel pump....I love my STG 2 and John is an awesome development guy to deal with!!!


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## utahvwman (Jan 3, 2005)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Yes, HPFPUpgrade...





jhines_06gli said:


> Yea.....I'd say for the person who wants to just make the "safe" power and have the more reliable daily driver, the def. go with the S3 injectors since they are stock in the Golf R with the K04 and intended to be ran in the engine!! ...
> 
> And enjoy the fuel pump....I love my STG 2 and John is an awesome development guy to deal with!!!


I'm running the HPFPupgrade pump on my Uni tuned k04 too. So far so good with the pump. I've just got a poor mileage issue I need to figure out.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

utahvwman said:


> I'm running the HPFPupgrade pump on my Uni tuned k04 too. So far so good with the pump. I've just got a poor mileage issue I need to figure out.


How poor? What injectors? I'm still averaging 34+MPG on the highway and 30 around town. And I'm a pretty spirited driver!! Every merge is a good kick and I drive a LOT!! If you can, see what your fuel trims and timing pulls are and what your MAF readings are. You have access to VagCom?
-J. Hines

Also.....what spark plugs are you running and set at what gap?


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## utahvwman (Jan 3, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> How poor? What injectors? I'm still averaging 34+MPG on the highway and 30 around town. And I'm a pretty spirited driver!! Every merge is a good kick and I drive a LOT!! If you can, see what your fuel trims and timing pulls are and what your MAF readings are. You have access to VagCom?
> -J. Hines
> 
> Also.....what spark plugs are you running and set at what gap?


I'm lucky to touch 25 mgp highway. I think I got to 25 once during my 20 mile, mostly highway commute. I'm averaging about 20 mpg. S3 injectors. I've been trying to get my hands on a VagCom. If I can't borrow one locally soon I'm just going to buy one next week.

All the hardware was installed the last week of December. I put about 70 miles on the car with the K04 hardware installed before I got the Uni K04 file and was getting normal (30+ mpg highway) mileage. After the tune the mileage really went down hill and hasn't recovered.


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## utahvwman (Jan 3, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> How poor? What injectors? I'm still averaging 34+MPG on the highway and 30 around town. And I'm a pretty spirited driver!! Every merge is a good kick and I drive a LOT!! If you can, see what your fuel trims and timing pulls are and what your MAF readings are. You have access to VagCom?
> -J. Hines
> 
> Also.....what spark plugs are you running and set at what gap?


Thanks for the tip about contacting David at Unitronic. He says the wrong file was installed. Integrated Engineering is the local Uni dealer but they say they can see me until Monday to get correct file.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

Since we're on K04's, did you guys upgrade your fuel rail valve to the RS4 or one of the valves sold by HPFPupgrade? I'm about to take manifold off and do the injectors, should I wait and get a valve first? Seems to make sense with the higher rail pressure a K04 tunes requests.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Since we're on K04's, did you guys upgrade your fuel rail valve to the RS4 or one of the valves sold by HPFPupgrade? I'm about to take manifold off and do the injectors, should I wait and get a valve first? Seems to make sense with the higher rail pressure a K04 tunes requests.


I think you should wait, but it also depends on what pressure you are requesting.
I saw very little difference @ 130 bar but i'm pretty sure there would be issues with
me now running 135 bar if i didn't have the valve.

You could always change it down the road with the manifold on, but it's a BITCH....


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

Hey Josh have you contacted [email protected]? I noticed my car is not feeling as strong now but I've been waiting to emailing him until my new boost gauge arrives and I can have actual boost numbers.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Joeydabomb said:


> Hey Josh have you contacted [email protected]? I noticed my car is not feeling as strong now but I've been waiting to emailing him until my new boost gauge arrives and I can have actual boost numbers.


Not yet.....I've been in process of moving and don't have internet hooked up at the new place yet. I plan on it in the next day or so because I'll be gone for training and have nothing better to do. Plus I'll be really close to their headquarters here on the East Coast:laugh:. But we got down to 22* this AM and I decided to see how the car would do idling on it's on.......not so good!!! Stalled 4 times before it finally got ahold of itself and could maintain an idle of about 600RPM. 

But yea....the power loss I have is VERY noticeable!!! 
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Since we're on K04's, did you guys upgrade your fuel rail valve to the RS4 or one of the valves sold by HPFPupgrade? I'm about to take manifold off and do the injectors, should I wait and get a valve first? Seems to make sense with the higher rail pressure a K04 tunes requests.


And yes......definitely wait! I have tried about every combination of the rail valves and HPFPs out there and when you get up into the higher rail pressures and especially if you're using HPFPUpgrades STG 2 pump.....you need that higher-release valve. I was blowing the valve open at around 110BAR with the OE valve and my HPFP STG 2. The pressure was building so quick that the valve was opening way too soon and it felt like I had some bad wastegate flutter on heavy accel. Replaced the valve with the RS4 unit and it pretty much went away, but I'm now running the STG 2 valve from HPFPUpgrade and it's been awesome! If I could only get a tune to backup my hardware and compliment it all, I'd have a killer setup and would probably be happy just to leave the car like this as it's pretty much my daily. But you can't have everything, right:banghead:
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Anyone else with similar built cars to mine feel like they are getting cancer when driving in traffic or heavy accel. with the defrost on? 

Here lately since it's been pretty cold and rainy/damp of a morning, I've been having to run defrost a lot more than normal. I'm getting a VERY strong exhaust smell back in through my car that fills the cabin when in stop/go traffic and right after heavy accel. Not sure 100% how to describe the smell other than maybe the smell of a very rich car running in a garage for a while with the door down. It definitely burns the lungs a little if you're in traffic long enough! 

I have a cat and everything on my car(Magnaflow 100 cell metal), but nothing else. Just 2.5" straight pipe all the way to back and turned down. Just really weird and has never been this bad before. Gonna check fuel trims today and see where I stand, but no MIL, so I'm guessing it's ok since my car has always had perfect A/F ratio or -27%....there's no in between!!! 
-J. Hines


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> And yes......definitely wait! I have tried about every combination of the rail valves and HPFPs out there and when you get up into the higher rail pressures and especially if you're using HPFPUpgrades STG 2 pump.....you need that higher-release valve. I was blowing the valve open at around 110BAR with the OE valve and my HPFP STG 2. The pressure was building so quick that the valve was opening way too soon and it felt like I had some bad wastegate flutter on heavy accel. Replaced the valve with the RS4 unit and it pretty much went away, but I'm now running the STG 2 valve from HPFPUpgrade and it's been awesome! If I could only get a tune to backup my hardware and compliment it all, I'd have a killer setup and would probably be happy just to leave the car like this as it's pretty much my daily. But you can't have everything, right:banghead:
> -J. Hines


 Aren't the newer FSI motors using a 130 bar valve? I bought a stage 1 HPFPUpgrade pump, I should think the stock valve would hold up, no?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Aren't the newer FSI motors using a 130 bar valve? I bought a stage 1 HPFPUpgrade pump, I should think the stock valve would hold up, no?


 I have a 2005-built FSI, so I had the early 110BAR valve. I ran the RS4 valve with no issues, but I switched to HPFPUpgrades stuff because I was running a lot of their development parts and doing testing for him. The 130BAR should hold up fine, but what I had found was it didn't like running in combination with the STG 2 HPFP I have from him because the extra volume it flows would open the rail valve before it should because of the spike in rail pressures. But with the STG 1 you should be fine....the fuel inlet hole is the same size as OE where as the STG 2 like I have is bored out to increase flow slightly. 
-J. Hines


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

jhines_06gli said:


> I have a 2005-built FSI, so I had the early 110BAR valve. I ran the RS4 valve with no issues, but I switched to HPFPUpgrades stuff because I was running a lot of their development parts and doing testing for him. The 130BAR should hold up fine, but what I had found was it didn't like running in combination with the STG 2 HPFP I have from him because the extra volume it flows would open the rail valve before it should because of the spike in rail pressures. But with the STG 1 you should be fine....the fuel inlet hole is the same size as OE where as the STG 2 like I have is bored out to increase flow slightly.
> -J. Hines


 Did you confirm by looking at the part number? I also have a early (March) 2005 built FSI and I had the 130 bar valve.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

crew219 said:


> Did you confirm by looking at the part number? I also have a early (March) 2005 built FSI and I had the 130 bar valve.


 Yea.....pulled sensor to confirm the part number when I installed my RS4 valve. I had HORRIBLE fuel cuts after going STG 2+, so I found the old APR data saying the sensor was required when doing their STG 2+. 
http://gmpperformance.com/index.cfm?PG=detail&PID=142347&VS=1 

-J. Hines


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

Rich codes are back. CEL within 50 miles. sigh...:banghead:


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> Anyone else with similar built cars to mine feel like they are getting cancer when driving in traffic or heavy accel. with the defrost on?
> 
> Here lately since it's been pretty cold and rainy/damp of a morning, I've been having to run defrost a lot more than normal. I'm getting a VERY strong exhaust smell back in through my car that fills the cabin when in stop/go traffic and right after heavy accel. Not sure 100% how to describe the smell other than maybe the smell of a very rich car running in a garage for a while with the door down. It definitely burns the lungs a little if you're in traffic long enough!
> 
> ...


 No, not really. Still smokes like a freight train under heavy accel though. 

I'm still CEL free if that counts for anything.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Joeydabomb said:


> No, not really. Still smokes like a freight train under heavy accel though.
> 
> I'm still CEL free if that counts for anything.


 What boost numbers are you pushing?


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

any more updates?


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Im wrapping up my install and should be able to drive Monday. Just wondering if my Passat tune is updated tune like you guys, id imagine so.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

skateboy918 said:


> any more updates?


 Still no MIL, but still slower!! We're having a club dyno day in about a month and we'll see what my numbers are. Hopefully I'm going to be able to work out a deal with Unitronic and be able to use their K04/RS$ software on the same day to be able to compare the 2. I'm guessing a 60hp difference. But we'll see how much hp changes from 15PSI to 22PSI on our K04 cars. 
-J. Hines


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Finished my K04 install finally. Did you guys use a low boost setting for turbo break in? If so, how long???


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Finished my K04 install finally. Did you guys use a low boost setting for turbo break in? If so, how long???


My break-in was getting the engine up to temp. after the tune and then beating the every-living hell outa the car for the rest of the day!!! But that was when I had boost and things were more fun:banghead:


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

When you had boost???


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> When you had boost???


Original file had me up in the 24PSI range. But with all the issues we were having, they made us a new file for the RS4 injectors and K04. The downside that none of us knew was that it drops our boost down to the 15PSI range. Sucks to be honest, but there is no MIL......so I guess REVO fixed what we asked them to, just at the cost of our horsepower:banghead:

Dyno day in 3 weeks and cannot wait!!! Get some numbers for comparing REVO to Unitronic with the RS4 inj./K04


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Ok...so im running rev d connected to dv relocate port as bov. Some1 told me this will negatively affect my turbo. Isthis true?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Ok...so im running rev d connected to dv relocate port as bov. Some1 told me this will negatively affect my turbo. Isthis true?


As long as you are running it as a divertor valve(recirculating it), then there will be nothing wrong with the setup. That's the way the OEM S3 was done in Europe and the way the new Golf R is done. So there is nothing wrong with doing it like that. What other alternative would you have once you go K04? You have to relocate the DV.
-J. Hines


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> As long as you are running it as a divertor valve(recirculating it), then there will be nothing wrong with the setup. That's the way the OEM S3 was done in Europe and the way the new Golf R is done. So there is nothing wrong with doing it like that. What other alternative would you have once you go K04? You have to relocate the DV.
> -J. Hines


Im not using the pipe that routes the air back by intake. Is that ok?


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Im not using the pipe that routes the air back by intake. Is that ok?


I would take that off immediately - I think since the DV is not connected AFTER the turbo, when the throttle closes (after boosting), there is no where for the pressurized air to go and it will cause the turbo to backspin


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

as for the boost pressure - i have the old REVO k04 file that does cause the too rich at idle code and i ussually only boost to 17-18psi in the wintertime and closer to 23psi during the other seasons

maybe Chris can chime in on if the low boost is a result of low intake temps or if it's part of the file

I run B7T4F9 BTW


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

So how exactly do i set it up???


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> So how exactly do i set it up???


the OEM way like below or look up the AWE DV relocation kit or the eurojet S3 DV relocation kit


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> So how exactly do i set it up???


I run the atp relocation setup and running the forge splitter valve... ill try and find a pic of my engine bay to post.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

^


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

^^ so its ran to the throttle body pipe to release boost?? Im running the BSH tb pipe.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Yes......you still have to run a throttle body pipe with the outlet that would normally go to the "Noise" pipe. If you are looking for noise, then the Forge Splitter valve is the way to go as it will give you noise, but still recircs so you don't have any drivability issues.

I'm running the Neuspeed throttle body pipe along with the EuroJet DV relocate kit and using the OEM noise pipe.

The boost is released from the throttle body pipe back into the intake. This makes for quicker/smoother shifts and better throttle response. The way a DV works is it releases the boost pressure left in the system once you snap the throttle plate closed to prevent that boost from surging back and "back-spooling" the turbo(VERY BAD). So by placing the DV right by the throttle plate, you are allowing the boost to be bled off quickly as soon as the throttle plate shuts......then it's just routed back into the intake track post-MAF.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

So if I run my setup like GTI08MKV`s, that should work? Port to DV, then pipe from dv to tb pipe. Right? Do you think I did turbo damage driving in current setup for about 10 miles total, boost no higher than 10 PSI??????


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> So if I run my setup like GTI08MKV`s, that should work? Port to DV, then pipe from dv to tb pipe. Right? Do you think I did turbo damage driving in current setup for about 10 miles total, boost no higher than 10 PSI??????


Yes.....you need to make a setup similar to his.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks, I actually have everything to do so, came with the KMD turbo kit i purchased from fellow Vortex member.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Thanks, I actually have everything to do so, came with the KMD turbo kit i purchased from fellow Vortex member.


The turbo should be fine buut switch your setup b4 you start driving again. As far as my splitter valve I have it set at 18 clicks its still pretty loud havent driven my car all winter but over the summer I was holding @ 22 psi. Good luck. With the new set up


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

GTI08MKV said:


> The turbo should be fine buut switch your setup b4 you start driving again. As far as my splitter valve I have it set at 18 clicks its still pretty loud havent driven my car all winter but over the summer I was holding @ 22 psi. Good luck. With the new set up


Thank you and thanks for all your guys help. Im still new at the whole turbo DIY thing.


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## fahrenheitstephen (Jun 25, 2010)

GTI08MKV said:


> The turbo should be fine buut switch your setup b4 you start driving again. As far as my splitter valve I have it set at 18 clicks its still pretty loud havent driven my car all winter but over the summer I was holding @ 22 psi. Good luck. With the new set up


Do you have logs of your boost? Dont really see how holding 22lbs is possible on an NA platform


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

fahrenheitstephen said:


> Do you have logs of your boost? Dont really see how holding 22lbs is possible on an NA platform


I don't have logs but been running my k04 since summer 2010 spikes like 25 @ times and holds 21/22 psi from what I read on my boost gauge my settings are 969 I ran 13.0 @ 107 with street tires and consistancy last year... I'm dsg but haven't flashed it with stage 2 yet hopefully soon... ill try to get some logs soon...


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## DKfr0mCC (Aug 12, 2011)

thank god i went APR this seems like a headache ....


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> I don't have logs but been running my k04 since summer 2010 spikes like 25 @ times and holds 21/22 psi from what I read on my boost gauge my settings are 969 I ran 13.0 @ 107 with street tires and consistancy last year... I'm dsg but haven't flashed it with stage 2 yet hopefully soon... ill try to get some logs soon...


See........that was my car exactly before the latest REVO revision for their STG 3 file. I was spiking 25/26 on a cool morning and would hold 21/22. My setting are 9-6-9 and I've never had any issues with them like that given the HUGE intercooler I run. All my logs were always correct(other than fuel trims at idle). God how I miss the boost:banghead:


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## fahrenheitstephen (Jun 25, 2010)

jhines_06gli said:


> See........that was my car exactly before the latest REVO revision for their STG 3 file. I was spiking 25/26 on a cool morning and would hold 21/22. My setting are 9-6-9 and I've never had any issues with them like that given the HUGE intercooler I run. All my logs were always correct(other than fuel trims at idle). God how I miss the boost:banghead:


Just go back to your old file . Do you pull timing with a setting like that? I'm on 7-5-9 and pull as much as 5* on some cyclinders. Going to put the boost up so maybe I won't pull as much timing


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

fahrenheitstephen said:


> Just go back to your old file . Do you pull timing with a setting like that? I'm on 7-5-9 and pull as much as 5* on some cyclinders. Going to put the boost up so maybe I won't pull as much timing


Dyno day is in a few weeks, so hopefully I'll be switching to Uni then. Never had more than 2* timing pull on these settings as long as my valves are clean. Once the injectors start to get a little gummed up on the tips and the valve ports start to get some buildup, I'll get as much as 5-7* pull on some cylinders. But once I clean everything and reset the computer, it goes back to the usual 1-2* pulls in higher boost.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> Dyno day is in a few weeks, so hopefully I'll be switching to Uni then. Never had more than 2* timing pull on these settings as long as my valves are clean. Once the injectors start to get a little gummed up on the tips and the valve ports start to get some buildup, I'll get as much as 5-7* pull on some cylinders. But once I clean everything and reset the computer, it goes back to the usual 1-2* pulls in higher boost.


I put in the revised pcv and the smoking is sooo much better I have no checkk engine light never have but still swaped my tb my only complaint is the cold starts even tho I don't drive it right now but I satrt it every week the damn thing stalls just like everyone else :banghead:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Yea...I have no PCV...lol. I have the rear tube to the turbo blocked off and the catchcan is vented to atmosphere. Still smokes like a diesel(hence why I left the "TDI" badge on my euro trunklid:laugh. The power is more responsive with the new flash since it isn't quite as rich, but it just feels like my K03 did on STG2+. It has no top end power with the lower boost. So Uni runs their K04 file for the RS4 injectors at 22PSI and have not had anyone complain about MIL so far. So we'll see I guess. Long term goal is still either S3 injectors and proper tune if I stay small with this build. Or just go GT30 and keep the RS4s.......still smoke like crazy, but at least it'll be fast


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> Yea...I have no PCV...lol. I have the rear tube to the turbo blocked off and the catchcan is vented to atmosphere. Still smokes like a diesel(hence why I left the "TDI" badge on my euro trunklid:laugh. The power is more responsive with the new flash since it isn't quite as rich, but it just feels like my K03 did on STG2+. It has no top end power with the lower boost. So Uni runs their K04 file for the RS4 injectors at 22PSI and have not had anyone complain about MIL so far. So we'll see I guess. Long term goal is still either S3 injectors and proper tune if I stay small with this build. Or just go GT30 and keep the RS4s.......still smoke like crazy, but at least it'll be fast


I'm thinking of going gt30 also :beer: we'll see how you do with uni maybe I swith software also.. also I was running the bsh race catch can and I removed it to put in the revised pcv and the smoke is only on full throttle b4 it would just smoke sitting on a stop light it was embarrasing very happy with it now


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

So is that Uni file perfected or rough??? Im tuning my Treg TDI with Uni in spring, if their K04 w/ RS4 is better the B6 may jump ship as well.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> So is that Uni file perfected or rough??? Im tuning my Treg TDI with Uni in spring, if their K04 w/ RS4 is better the B6 may jump ship as well.


From working with David, he has told me they have stopped development for the RS4 injectors because they just weren't designed for this engine!! But the files they did write work, run 22PSI, throw no MIL and have smooth powerbands. The only down side is the cold-start still is rough due to the injectors. But the Canadian COLD and the N.C. "cold" are 2 totally different things, so I'll be fine.


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## acespizee (Dec 19, 2007)

I run 30psi max and 25psi at redline and i think arond 23psi at 7k rpm.  Brand new 30psi boost gauge. I have been running this amount of boost for months. My car can stay on the bumper of a GTR from a roll in 3rd until i just slot 5th (around 130mph i think, basically it never gets away unless on the Mway) all on a K04. Revo Tuned- with a little help from me. :thumbup:


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

acespizee said:


> I run 30psi max and 25psi at redline and i think arond 23psi at 7k rpm.  Brand new 30psi boost gauge. I have been running this amount of boost for months. My car can stay on the bumper of a GTR from a roll in 3rd until i just slot 5th (around 130mph i think, basically it never gets away unless on the Mway) all on a K04. Revo Tuned- with a little help from me. :thumbup:


What was done to up the boost? And is it safe on the turbo? Very interested more power=more betta lmk shoot me a pm if not :thumbup:


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## acespizee (Dec 19, 2007)

GTI08MKV said:


> What was done to up the boost? And is it safe on the turbo? Very interested more power=more betta lmk shoot me a pm if not :thumbup:


I will pm you. :thumbup:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Yea.....I have a feeling I know what you did for the boost increase. Do you have any logs of this boost level and what the timing pulls look like along with injector duty and A/F readings? You can PM me as well if you wanna keep it off the main discussion


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

What's up fellas I live in Illinois and I need to go for emissions for the firdt time will my car pass the place I've gone to just plugs in to the ecu and I don't have a cell on but since I'm catless will I pass?? Thanks for the help in advance :beer:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> What's up fellas I live in Illinois and I need to go for emissions for the firdt time will my car pass the place I've gone to just plugs in to the ecu and I don't have a cell on but since I'm catless will I pass?? Thanks for the help in advance :beer:


You have any sort of inside connections? I'm pretty sure all states are the same when it comes to OBD2 cars and inspections. A catalytic convertor must be present on the car(visually) in order to pass......or at least the catalytic convertor housing must be there.....what's inside it is "unseen":laugh:

But you need to find some local tuner guys around you and see what they do for inspections and if you'll be ok.
-J. Hines


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Hey guys, I need your input. Got the K04 on, but want a tad more power. Considering Rods and meth injection to add to my K04. Does Revo make a High Output file for these item?


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## bacillus (Apr 21, 2011)

You can advance the timing with the sps switch to compliment the lowered intake temp with the w/m.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Hey guys, I need your input. Got the K04 on, but want a tad more power. Considering Rods and meth injection to add to my K04. Does Revo make a High Output file for these item?


What file did you get from REVO? Is it the new file that came out a few months back, or the original K04 file? Also, what boost pressure are you running?

IF you want more out of the K04, you may be able to do w/m, but the rods won't help. Rods are needed above 350hp, so until you go GT30, you'll be fine.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> What file did you get from REVO? Is it the new file that came out a few months back, or the original K04 file? Also, what boost pressure are you running?
> 
> IF you want more out of the K04, you may be able to do w/m, but the rods won't help. Rods are needed above 350hp, so until you go GT30, you'll be fine.


Ill have to check. I`m hoping the higher output file. I haven`t made a hard run yet as weather has been ****ty. If I have the lower output file, is there a way to turn it up? Im gonna get the SPS+ module.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Ill have to check. I`m hoping the higher output file. I haven`t made a hard run yet as weather has been ****ty. If I have the lower output file, is there a way to turn it up? Im gonna get the SPS+ module.


No. I have the revision "b" file(the new one to eliminate rich @ idle fault). I have my REVO settings at 9-6-9(B-T-F). So I'm maxxed out and it's still only at 15PSI. So in my case.....NO. What I have is all I get.
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> No. I have the revision "b" file(the new one to eliminate rich @ idle fault). I have my REVO settings at 9-6-9(B-T-F). So I'm maxxed out and it's still only at 15PSI. So in my case.....NO. What I have is all I get.
> -J. Hines


You are on 15 psi At B9 ??? :what:

Why ??


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## fahrenheitstephen (Jun 25, 2010)

I peak 21-22lbs and hold 18-19 till redline. Settings are b7t5f9


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

They built that new flash and I was the "tester" for it. They swear the flash changed nothing to do with boost/performance, but only fixed the fuel trim at idle fault. It did get rid of the MIL I was getting for too rich at idle and has kept my fuel trims switching around -3/+3% since November when the revised flash was given to me. BUT........since the second I left the dealer lot where I got flashed, the car has only been boosting to 15PSI. It's a HUGE power decrease, although it still pulls hard to 15, but then it falls on it's face since the wastegate is being commanded open. 

I told them to set my settings at 9-6-9 like they've always been and thought maybe they set it up differently. But I've checked and even put back to default 0-0-0 and then switched back to 9-6-9 and still the same results. No MIL, still shakes at cold-start if it's


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

fahrenheitstephen said:


> I peak 21-22lbs and hold 18-19 till redline. Settings are b7t5f9


But what K04 file do you have? Did you go in for the revised one or are you still on the original K04 file?


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> They built that new flash and I was the "tester" for it. They swear the flash changed nothing to do with boost/performance, but only fixed the fuel trim at idle fault. It did get rid of the MIL I was getting for too rich at idle and has kept my fuel trims switching around -3/+3% since November when the revised flash was given to me. BUT........since the second I left the dealer lot where I got flashed, the car has only been boosting to 15PSI. It's a HUGE power decrease, although it still pulls hard to 15, but then it falls on it's face since the wastegate is being commanded open.
> 
> I told them to set my settings at 9-6-9 like they've always been and thought maybe they set it up differently. But I've checked and even put back to default 0-0-0 and then switched back to 9-6-9 and still the same results. No MIL, still shakes at cold-start if it's


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> Btw what are your WG logs ?Have you checked for actuator malfunction ?? (im guessing you've already done a boost leak test)


I've checked for boost leaks, etc. All is good. 

The reason I KNOW it's the file is that in working with REVO and obeying their every command as far as ensuring it was the flash causing the rich at idle fault, I did a LOT of work to my car in the weeks leading up to the reflash. Basically here's what I did:
- Removed intake and cleaned valves, resealed injectors
- Swapped MAF sensor to a new one
- Swapped PCV stuff back as close to stock as I could
- Swapped DV setup as close to stock as I could (S3 pipe/OE valve)
- Anything you can think that would cause a rich fault when only at idle...I checked/replaced stuff to try and make them happy.

They finally got the new flash up and ready for my car. All the time I was on the K04 flash I was boosting 26PSI-peak and holding 21PSI all the way to redline. The car pulled CRAZY!! But it also billowed black smoke on cold-start and when under heavy accel. The fuel trims were -27.4% at idle and 2.1% off idle. The MAF readings and all were correct, just that the injectors were not happy at idle. I was blowing through plugs in less that 15K miles and they were gapped down to .022" instead of .032" as they come out of the box. I just could not burn all the fuel that was being put into the cylinder at idle and low RPMs. 

But even on the way to get my car flashed to the new file, I was driving it hard(trying to get there before they closed) and it was boosting 26PSI, holding 21/22. I got it flashed, cleared the fault memory, reset throttle body and IMRC. Then left out of the dealership. I hit it good once I got to the main road and it was only boosting 15/16PSI. I thought maybe it was an adaptive file(not sure why it would be). So I figured I'd give it a few days. Well weeks turned into months and it's still the same. Hammer down on the throttle and it pulls really hard for about 2 seconds until it hits 15PSI and then just stops pulling any harder and stays steady at 15PSI. Does that through all gears, so I know it's not a default in the program like some of the Maestro programs have to limit wheel slip. 

Just weird and really starting to get old. I usually just leave the GLI at work and drive my VR MK2 around because it's soo much more fun to drive. I guess I'm gonna go for a few dyno runs on the GLI before raising too much hell with REVO and see what numbers I am putting down and what sorta logs I can get. But I know I'm not the only one running this file as there were several people who experienced the same boost loss after getting the updated version. Ir's probably a few pages back, but I remember it being brought up about 2 months ago with a few people.
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> I've checked for boost leaks, etc. All is good.
> 
> The reason I KNOW it's the file is that in working with REVO and obeying their every command as far as ensuring it was the flash causing the rich at idle fault, I did a LOT of work to my car in the weeks leading up to the reflash. Basically here's what I did:
> - Removed intake and cleaned valves, resealed injectors
> ...


Sorry to hear that...

I also had a lot of boosting issues with Revo's software but it was mainly because i kept upgrading the car and the software could not "follow"...

Have you tried any other software ? It could eliminate the possible hardware issue....


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> Sorry to hear that...
> 
> I also had a lot of boosting issues with Revo's software but it was mainly because i kept upgrading the car and the software could not "follow"...
> 
> Have you tried any other software ? It could eliminate the possible hardware issue....


Well considering that we are APR and Unitronic dealer at work, I'll be doing the switch to Unitronic. Just wish REVO could fix something for once so I could wait til I go bigger turbo before switching. Rather not just switch to the Uni RS4 file since it still has some issues since this engine just wasn't designed for these injectors!! But I'm also considering just getting a set of S3 injectors and switching to Uni and getting the good A/F ratio that makers good, reliable horsepower!!!

I only have 30K miles til my engine goes under the knife though. If all goes well that is. Still wanna get my MK1 and MK2 set straight before downing the GLI. But should be sometime next year, then I'll be fully prepared for the GT30r and ANY power potential that turbo can offer!!
-J. Hines


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Maybe Chris or someone with REVO can help here. This change just popped up not long ago on the REVO website. I know this is a global website and I'm guessing that's what this applies to, but worth a shot to ask. Is the "consult you local dealer about injector info" saying there may be a S3 injector file out now? Or is that still just a Euro-market file that has the S3 injectors for the Ed30, S3 and Cupra, etc? 

*Stage3 K04 for 2.0T FSI Transverse K03 based vehicles
Required: K04 turbo (S3, TTS, Ed30, Cupra)
Injectors; Please consult with your Revo support office or specific vehicle listing for 
your region for injector specification
Turbo back exhaust without pre-cat and either decat or highflow catalytic convertor 
(2.5"-3.0" recommended)
Cold Air intake (from turbo inlet pipe to front of car replacing factory airbox for 
best gains)
uprated or additional intercooler (S3 uses larger stock IC but additional IC is 
recommended)
highflow mechanical fuel pump
Associated hardware for fitting and installation is required for the turbo 
upgrade.*


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Still up in the air about the whole injector bullsh*t. You guys that have just recently installed K04 turbos and RS4 injectors with REVO software. What flash was installed on your car and what kinda boost levels are you pushing? I mean, it's pretty awesome weather here in NC lately for turbo cars with the dense air and cool morning, but still can't get the GLI above 15PSI:banghead: Starting to to really get at me!!! Just a $540 cost for injectors and $550 cost to switch software(those are my costs as a VW dealer and Uni dealer) is really hard to pull the trigger on right now. 
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Still up in the air about the whole injector bullsh*t. You guys that have just recently installed K04 turbos and RS4 injectors with REVO software. What flash was installed on your car and what kinda boost levels are you pushing? I mean, it's pretty awesome weather here in NC lately for turbo cars with the dense air and cool morning, but still can't get the GLI above 15PSI:banghead: Starting to to really get at me!!! Just a €409 ($540) cost for injectors and €416 ($550) cost to switch software(those are my costs as a VW dealer and Uni dealer) is really hard to pull the trigger on right now.
> -J. Hines


Revo uses RS4 injectors for the K04 setup in the U.S. and S3 injectors for the
K04 setup in Europe.According to Revo it had to do with the availability (or "lack of")
the S3 injectors in the U.S. at the time Revo was making the software for the U.S.
cars.So they chose the RS4's that were readily available at the time and tuned for those...

As for asking for an S3 injector file in the U.S. and vise versa, forget about it.
I tried asking for a K04/RS4 injector file over here and i had the door slammed to my face...

Sorry to say but Revo are kinda lazy....... :thumbdown:

Your best bet if you want to use S3 injectors is to change software altogether...


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> Revo uses RS4 injectors for the K04 setup in the U.S. and S3 injectors for the
> K04 setup in Europe.According to Revo it had to do with the availability (or "lack of")
> the S3 injectors in the U.S. at the time Revo was making the software for the U.S.
> cars.So they chose the RS4's that were readily available at the time and tuned for those...
> ...


Yea.......same thing here. I have tried previously to get the Euro file for my car. But was denied VERY quickly saying the fuel quality was different for the Euro flashes that use S3 injectors. But figured since they changed the website, maybe(LONG SHOT) something had changed their mind. 

I'm leaning towards going S3 since this may be the way the car stays for a while as I'm doing my other projects. But just want my boost back at the moment! Not sure if I'll be able to see anything, but I'm gonna try to get some good logs with the current software(revision 1b) and then go get the old software put back on the car and do some logging that same day with all the conditions the same!!! See if I can pick out what they changed and get to the bottom of this. 

I've been contemplating just logging my fuel trims and knock and using a manual controller to try and get the few pounds of boost back. But it's hard to successfully trick the MED9 stuff since it's so adaptive and sees EVERYTHING!!!! I really need to get my wideband controller finished so I can monitor it a lot easier than VagCom. But with the dyno coming up this weekend.......I see this as a good opportunity to point out the flaws and see if others will follow and give me more data that are running the same setups.
-J. Hines


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Yea.......same thing here. I have tried previously to get the Euro file for my car. But was denied VERY quickly saying the fuel quality was different for the Euro flashes that use S3 injectors. But figured since they changed the website, maybe(LONG SHOT) something had changed their mind.
> 
> I'm leaning towards going S3 since this may be the way the car stays for a while as I'm doing my other projects. But just want my boost back at the moment! Not sure if I'll be able to see anything, but I'm gonna try to get some good logs with the current software(revision 1b) and then go get the old software put back on the car and do some logging that same day with all the conditions the same!!! See if I can pick out what they changed and get to the bottom of this.
> 
> ...


Well i used to be a loyal Revo supporter up to the point i started developing my car beyond their
"specs", which actually meant cams and head porting.Then all of a sudden the software fell flat
on its head, i couldn't make boost and when i asked for fine tuning of the software i had i was told
Revo doesn't do "custom files" (probably meaning they are too lazy to bother with each and every car). Then came the stage3-stage4 BT fiasco, and now i'm going to give my money elsewhere, cause
to me if you pick a tuner, that tuner MUST BE able to support you, no matter what.
And mind you i never asked for a freebie....

So now i'm going with a full custom/dyno tune, and getting confirmation before hand that any mod
i have planned will be tuned for. I'm pretty sure it's gonna beat any Revo generic file out there, and
still have the support i deserve as a client.

These are difficult times and unless companies like Revo realize this is not the time to LOSE customers, they may wake up one day realizing the have no customers left....

Money is important...we all know that....But customer loyalty and support is more.....for serious companies that is.....


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

True. And I had actually questioned whether or not having the intake port dividers out of my car was effecting this issue. But I did the valve cleaning and left those out a week prior to getting the flash redone and was boosting fine up until I got the flash done. I'm out of ideas as far as a hardware issue at this point. REVO swore up and down that the Too Rich at idle issue was hardware related on ALL our effected cars. But when the re-flash occurred, there is no more too rich at idle faults and trims are dead perfect.....so that was obviously a software issue combined with the RS4 injectors that we all know are not "intended" for this engine!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> True. And I had actually questioned whether or not having the intake port dividers out of my car was effecting this issue. But I did the valve cleaning and left those out a week prior to getting the flash redone and was boosting fine up until I got the flash done. I'm out of ideas as far as a hardware issue at this point. REVO swore up and down that the Too Rich at idle issue was hardware related on ALL our effected cars. But when the re-flash occurred, there is no more too rich at idle faults and trims are dead perfect.....so that was obviously a software issue combined with the RS4 injectors that we all know are not "intended" for this engine!


Revo is not EVER gonna tell you they have bugs in their software.
It would be suicidal....But they do have this way of making you feel it's
YOUR FAULT on top of that....And that is what finally got to my head.
I asked my tuner why i couldn't make more than 1.4 bar on my stage..."4"
BT software, and the answer he got from the U.K. office was that
A)my hardware was "out of spec" (even though I WAS MAKING REQUESTED WITHOUT SURGING
OR OTHER HARDWARE RELATED ISSUES)
and
B)that i should use a boost controller....

So my answer to that was 
A)BULL**** and 
B) if i wanted to tune my car myself i could have done that
without asking Revo....

And of course a boost controller means crap if the software is not made to "follow".
You can run 30 psi of boost....if the ECU only allows 5 degrees of timing, you might as well
get a K04 and leave the BT idea altogether.

So why allow the software to "kill" your hardware ?? Not any more.... :thumbdown:


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## acespizee (Dec 19, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Well i used to be a loyal Revo supporter up to the point i started developing my car beyond their
> "specs", which actually meant cams and head porting.Then all of a sudden the software fell flat
> on its head, i couldn't make boost and when i asked for fine tuning of the software i had i was told
> Revo doesn't do "custom files" (probably meaning they are too lazy to bother with each and every car). Then came the stage3-stage4 BT fiasco, and now i'm going to give my money elsewhere, cause
> ...


:thumbup::beer:


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## acespizee (Dec 19, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Revo is not EVER gonna tell you they have bugs in their software.
> It would be suicidal....But they do have this way of making you feel it's
> YOUR FAULT on top of that....And that is what finally got to my head.
> I asked my tuner why i couldn't make more than 1.4 bar on my stage..."4"
> ...


:thumbup::beer:


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## acespizee (Dec 19, 2007)

I had a problem for months back in the day, but long story. Put simple Revo sweared blind it was not there software cutting my throttle when temps outside got exactly under 11*c. They finally agreed to take a look at my car, kept it for a few weeks, told me they sorted it, i picked it up, asked them what was eventually wrong with the car, they kind of mumbled something about my hardware being either installed wrong or over spec'd (loool). But funny enough there were no parts removed or changed when i got the car back. :screwy::screwy::screwy::sly:

They would tell me it was this or that and i would change it like a sheep. Even tho i would have tried there method a week before asking and would tell them it was not related to that part and the said part is fine. They would never admit software problems. You think "why did i waste my phone bill even calling". They try to make the sale's man talk to you about technical s**t and bamboozel you with crap , even tho there knowledge of the problem is limited..

I am now and have been running a completely different k04 file that they do not release to the public and i love it.  

Revo made me think my engine was unreliable and full of problems. Now they sorted it, i now know the TFSI is one of the best and most reliable 2.0T in the world. Whoops my friend's R8, storms the track and then drives home like a standard family hatch. :thumbup:

Stay on there ass.


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## tbaeastcoast (Nov 9, 2008)

I ran revo on my last car and liked it, I was wondering how people were liking it with the 2.0


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Ran my car today, and collected some logs. I can`t seem to get past 15PSI in midrange, and I finally reached 20PSI, but at 100+ MPH.  I do not know how to post Excel worksheet, so if someone would tell me how, id be glad to post up. Also, after making a few runs, this trigger popped up:

32.663	Fault Trigger RECIRCULATING VALVE FOR TURBOCHARGER -N249 

My CEL came on when the code popped up. After a few minutes of running normal, the CEL disappeared. What does this mean???? 

My file name is: Stage 3 K04 + RS4inj v1-lt 

I think my file was made specifically for me, as they did not have a file made for my ECU type I think.


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## fahrenheitstephen (Jun 25, 2010)

^ 

Post your boost logs, I can peak like 21lbs in 2nd gear if I have traction off and hold about 18 till 6.8k rpms. I think when I move from boost 7 to 9 I will be able to peak and hold a little more


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

^^ How do I post logs?

BTW, now that Ive gone K04, should I run a different plug or gap?


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> ^^ How do I post logs?
> 
> BTW, now that Ive gone K04, should I run a different plug or gap?


I run the ngk 1x they are pregapped @ 30 and have worked great for me as densos are not pregapped and lasted like 3 months and were shot started getting misfires and my ngks been on for like 6 months no problems yet :thumbup:


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

This thread makes me sad.  I want to go K04 but having the choice between insufficient software or paying $700 to switch to Unitronic kills the deal for me. :banghead:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SmithersSP said:


> This thread makes me sad.  I want to go K04 but having the choice between insufficient software or paying $700 to switch to Unitronic kills the deal for me. :banghead:


 Once I go bigger I'll just sucker you into my K04 anyway. So just sit back and enjoy a half-way decent REVO tune for the time being. 

I have a spare BPY engine now(needs some TLC), but it's a start. So there is my bottom end to be build with ARP hardware and new bearings, rods and all to make the rebuild a little quicker and easier to take spending the $$$ in segments instead of all at once! But we'll see Pete.......shouldn't be too terribly long on the Rabbit and GTI before the GLI is under the knife. Just rolled 170,000 miles coming back from Atlanta, so 200,000 is a little closer! 

Did some work and got the car to hit 21PSI though!!! Was doing 125MPH at the time, but hey, it built over 15PSI!!! 
-J. Hines


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

Maybe since it's getting warm out again you should install the v.1 flash again and see you'll throw a code.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Jhines.....did you have a chance to run some logs and compare them to mine? I messaged Chris asking about getting my tune adjusted to original settings.... But haven't heard anything. :banghead:


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

*went K04 with s3's*

This isn't intended to sway anyone from using or not using Revo, but as long time Revo user I moved to Uni for my K04 tune. I was Revo stg 2 with my K03, and intended to stay Revo but didn't want to move to RS4 injectors. I ran the K04 on Revo stg2 for the last 8 months, finally got the injector install finished last week and got flashed last Monday with Unitronic's K04 flash. The car runs extremely smooth, great cold start, even idling, no misfires, no drama. Pulls very hard to redline. Feels like car came from factory this way (except for the 330 hp!). If you are on the fence, there is some expense involved to convert but I can say end result is worth it. Of course this is a dead end power wise, so if you someday want to go GT staying with the RS4's will make more sense. I suspect the earlier RS4 K04 tune from Revo may make more power than this tune, but it drives so well overall that I'd not care.

I think RS4 injectors can be made to work right, APR managed to get them to work pretty well in their stage 3 kits. Revo likely just needs to put a little more time into cold start tuning.


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## fahrenheitstephen (Jun 25, 2010)

bostonaudi1 said:


> This isn't intended to sway anyone from using or not using Revo, but as long time Revo user I moved to Uni for my K04 tune. I was Revo stg 2 with my K03, and intended to stay Revo but didn't want to move to RS4 injectors. I ran the K04 on Revo stg2 for the last 8 months, finally got the injector install finished last week and got flashed last Monday with Unitronic's K04 flash. The car runs extremely smooth, great cold start, even idling, no misfires, no drama. Pulls very hard to redline. Feels like car came from factory this way (except for the 330 hp!). If you are on the fence, there is some expense involved to convert but I can say end result is worth it. Of course this is a dead end power wise, so if you someday want to go GT staying with the RS4's will make more sense. I suspect the earlier RS4 K04 tune from Revo may make more power than this tune, but it drives so well overall that I'd not care.
> 
> I think RS4 injectors can be made to work right, APR managed to get them to work pretty well in their stage 3 kits. Revo likely just needs to put a little more time into cold start tuning.


I have the regular revo file with rs4 injectors and its perfectly fine no bad idles or hard starts. Car pulls rediculously hard and I've never lost to another k04 and I've spanked the newer tsi k04 running apr. Only thing that is kind of rough is I spike 21-22lbs of boost in 2nd which makes it very hard to catch traction from 40-60


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Wish I was seeing those numbers.....I email Revo hopin to get old file.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

fahrenheitstephen said:


> I have the regular revo file with rs4 injectors and its perfectly fine no bad idles or hard starts. Car pulls rediculously hard and I've never lost to another k04 and I've spanked the newer tsi k04 running apr. Only thing that is kind of rough is I spike 21-22lbs of boost in 2nd which makes it very hard to catch traction from 40-60


That was my experience with a ride in an Audi A3 a few years back with a Revo K04 kit, it pulled crazy hard and ran great. Owner never mentioned any issues with rough running. When running right I'd guess the Revo tunes are making most power. 

When Revo developed the kit you'd have to believe the test mule was running fine when they cut the final revision of the software, and APR and other BT cars seem to run more or less fine on RS4 injectors. But this point has been made before. There has to be a delta between cars that don't run right and cars on these kits that do. I personally went Uni as I wanted to be 100% sure my car would run smooth in all conditions and I have no future plans for a bigger turbo, a K04 is plenty fast!


----------



## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

^Like i mentioned before cold starts @ like 40deg weather and colder are my only problem other than that its a beast i spike 25 hold 21-22 psi no check engine light either...


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> ^Like i mentioned before cold starts @ like 40deg weather and colder are my only problem other than that its a beast i spike 25 hold 21-22 psi no check engine light either...


And you still have original file? Not the "b" file that was introduced in November? I need to just switch back and get my boost back!!


----------



## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Yea, I feel like I am just as fast as stage 2+, but maybe spooling quicker. I emailed Revo about getting original file, but no answer from Chris or Revo yet.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Yea, I feel like I am just as fast as stage 2+, but maybe spooling quicker. I emailed Revo about getting original file, but no answer from Chris or Revo yet.


I wouldn't look for one. Hopefully the flash for original K04 is still in database. I'm pretty close with local REVO dealer and may just get old file back and see what I can do to fix the rich at idle issue on my own if it's,possible. Or just live with it til I change to Uni later on.


----------



## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Yea but im not doing any more performance mods to my B6 except water/meth. 5The 5 PSI that Im losing equates to what....40-50 HP? I dont wanna spend what 1200 to buy S3 injectors and Uni tune.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> And you still have original file? Not the "b" file that was introduced in November? I need to just switch back and get my boost back!!


Yea i have the original file that was put in my car summer of 2010


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Yea i have the original file that was put in my car summer of 2010


Yea.....I'm gonna have to switch back to my original file. This new one is just weak. Tide me over for a while and get my boost back. 

Wish there was a way for REVO to give us both files and allow switching between them.....lol


----------



## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> Yea.....I'm gonna have to switch back to my original file. This new one is just weak. Tide me over for a while and get my boost back.
> 
> Wish there was a way for REVO to give us both files and allow switching between them.....lol


That would be awesome ! Is your car manual? Im getting my dsg stage 2 but should i stay with revo for this?? Any input fellas?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> That would be awesome ! Is your car manual? Im getting my dsg stage 2 but should i stay with revo for this?? Any input fellas?


From working on VWs and the beginning issues we had with the DSG, I opted to go 6-speed manual. 

As for the DSG flashes....we do Unitronic DSG tunes here and I've been very pleased with the results from them. Only REVO DSG tune I came across is my buddy's TDI and it was a nightmare!! But that's just one car. Let's just say there was a software issue and the dealership replaced the transmission trying to solve the shifting issues, when in the end it was just software problems. But hey, he got a free transmission out of the whole thing..lol.
-J. Hines


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> Only REVO DSG tune I came across is my buddy's TDI and it was a nightmare!!



Really? You came across a guy who had software that doesn't exist? AMAZING!!!

I'm sorry but you are beyond pathetic with your constant Revo bashing, and it is a damn shame people cannot see the only reason you keep bumping and participating in this thread is for your own personal gains as a Uni and APR dealer. :thumbdown:

Thanks for at least giving us something solid in public to confirm your intentions...

This is beyond the fact that you have made no attempt to contact us to correct your supposed boost issue, you have sent no logs and no evidence that your boost is even remotely lower then it was before. You continue to post in public and promote the brands you sell via your bashing of our products. If you actually wanted your problems corrected you would do what it takes to get it fixed and you have not done that. 

Keep abusing the fact that vortex lets you get away with your shameless plugs for your business but it wont continue in threads about our products and by using our name.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Hey Chris...

How ya doin man ?

Everything ok ?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Hey Chris...
> 
> How ya doin man ?
> 
> Everything ok ?


Everythings great, did you miss the news about our merger with STaSIS?


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Everythings great, did you miss the news about our merger with STaSIS?


No i saw that.

How is that working out ?

I'm guessing that only effects the U.S. market since there are no stasis shops over here...


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

finally........that got REVO back in this thread. Knew it just took a little bashing and you'd pop back up. Glad to see REVO is still around at least.

And for the record.....I'm far from a supporter of APR. I do their flashes because I get paid to. But no where will you find me a supporter. As for Unitronic, yes. I'll back their product any day of the week because I've had dealings first hand with their tech support on issues and it's always been a priority to make their customer support high on the list. Wish I could say the same from my experiences with REVO. But hey....can't win them all.

Now that war has been waged.......see you guys in about 3 pages like last time. But seriously, a question for you Chris. Is the old K04 software still available to get flashed back onto our cars? Or has that been totally replaced with this new tune that you guys developed. If I can just get back to my MIL and actual powerband, I'd be more than happy to leave this whole thing alone and just change software later on. I lived with my too rich at idle fault for 2+ years and was happy with the performance it made compared to what I have now. So I can live with the light, just need the boost levels back where they should be instead of this new 15PSI(with gradual increase to 18) B.S.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> No i saw that.
> 
> How is that working out ?
> 
> I'm guessing that only effects the U.S. market since there are no stasis shops over here...



Not sure if you are serious, part of the reason for this merger is STaSIS wanted access to our 400+ dealers in the rest of the world to offer products through. It actually affects the US the least of any region.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> finally........that got REVO back in this thread. Knew it just took a little bashing and you'd pop back up. Glad to see REVO is still around at least.
> 
> And for the record.....I'm far from a supporter of APR. I do their flashes because I get paid to. But no where will you find me a supporter. As for Unitronic, yes. I'll back their product any day of the week because I've had dealings first hand with their tech support on issues and it's always been a priority to make their customer support high on the list. Wish I could say the same from my experiences with REVO. But hey....can't win them all.



You have done nothing to even remotely attempt to get support but post in a thread. Where is proof your boost is even remotely less than it was before? Why have you not actually sent us any logs to show us what your supposed problems are? 

I'm sorry but you were just caught in a blatant lie in an attempt to sell products and fly under the radar of the advertising rules of this site. That's pathetic but at least now everyone can see the only reason you keep posting in this thread and it has nothing to do with your car or our products.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> But seriously, a question for you Chris. Is the old K04 software still available to get flashed back onto our cars?



For you definitly not, not for anyone else for that matter since we don't backdate cars. But just to make the point clear why would we be remotely inclined to help someone who continues to bash us for their own personal gains? If Unitronic is so great and so supportive then there is no reason you should not have their software on your car.. oh that's right they don't support the hardware you run. You demanded many time in this thread and attacked us for not changing the hardware we chose to run but you seem to be happy that Unitronic won't bend to fit what you want.


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> You have done nothing to even remotely attempt to get support but post in a thread. Where is proof your boost is even remotely less than it was before? Why have you not actually sent us any logs to show us what your supposed problems are?
> 
> I'm sorry but you were just caught in a blatant lie in an attempt to sell products and fly under the radar of the advertising rules of this site. That's pathetic but at least now everyone can see the only reason you keep posting in this thread and it has nothing to do with your car or our products.


I'm just a tech, and by no means reap anything from "advertising" here. People ask what I run on my car and I tell them REVO. I was thrilled with the software all the way through 2+ and will assure you it's the hardest pulling software I've had on my car. But the non-sense with this K04 file is what's brought up all the questions and made people second-guess getting the REVO software for their K04 cars. If anything, I would have expected it to be a higher priority. I understand that the 10 or so of us on this forum may very well be the only ones having this issue in the US. I just would love to have my car fixed. Hell, I've offered to bring the car to you since I'm only 4 hours away! But when I proposed that for you guys to test and see if you could find the issue instead of me just logging things and sending it, I got a reply of my car has too many modifications to take into account for the software. I've had the whole spill about running a Neuspeed intake, engine's mechanical well-being since it's got mileage on it. You name it and it's been brought up between me and your tech support over the years.

I call tech support and end up on hold for 15-20 minutes at a time waiting to get in touch with someone, so no....my attempts are pretty few. I e-mail and it goes unreturned. Just let me know what you want logged and I'll provide it. Wastegate duty cycle, boost request/actual, RPM? 
What's YOUR e-mail and I'll send it straight to you. Seems that the tech support address given on the website goes into oblivion or something.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Not sure if you are serious, part of the reason for this merger is STaSIS wanted access to our 400+ dealers in the rest of the world to offer products through. It actually affects the US the least of any region.


 Right...

What products are those btw ?

I look for my vehicle and they only seem to have software....

Oh and something called : "Sorry, there are no parts listed for your selected vehicle."


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> For you definitly not, not for anyone else for that matter since we don't backdate cars. But just to make the point clear why would we be remotely inclined to help someone who continues to bash us for their own personal gains? If Unitronic is so great and so supportive then there is no reason you should not have their software on your car.. oh that's right they don't support the hardware you run. You demanded many time in this thread and attacked us for not changing the hardware we chose to run but you seem to be happy that Unitronic won't bend to fit what you want.


Unitronic does offer K04 flashes with RS4 injectors. It works without MIL, but still has the smoking and rough idle when it's below 30* outside. That doesn't matter since I'm in NC. My reasoning for continually drilling this with my REVO software was trying to find a solution for the other guys who have contacted me on the issue. It's easy for me to switch since the cost is NOTHING! But for everyone else that is fighting the same issue, it's $700. Hard for most people to just cough up $700 to change to another software or $650 to buy injectors and another $700 to change software. 

I have been trying to help the community of guys that have the same software and issues that I do. Should I just say f*ck them and go fix my car and not worry with them any more? For most people, I'm sure that's the easy thing to do, but I actually like to figure out the issue and try to fix it. In the end, if it means switching software and leaving the rest of the guys to fend for themselves, so be it.....that's what I'll do. But I'd rather not and just work to figure this out.

But you are the all-knowing Chris from REVO, so if you want me just back down and leave REVO alone, that's fine. I'd be more than happy to just get this thread black-holed and leave it alone. There's been enough drama here already, so why continue the b*tching and complaining. We all know how it goes from dealing with the developers anyway. No matter who it is, REVO, APR, Uni, GIAC.......the consumer is not right, they have spent $$$$ in the development of the software to work with whatever application and it isn't wrong. 

Yet Bosch has been building ECMs for cars for how many years and there are constantly updates coming out fixing small parameters that are incorrect and bugs in the software. If they have to constantly update their software, which is what you build off of, what about the tuning companies? 

Oh well guys, I'm out........moving on to better things. I'll stick with my Maestro tuning and Eurodyne for the future and just dyno-tune everything. 

**not sure if I left any tuners out of this.....tried to catch them all so I'm not being biased**


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

jhines_06gli said:


> Unitronic does offer K04 flashes with RS4 injectors. It works without MIL, but still has the smoking and rough idle when it's below 30* outside. That doesn't matter since I'm in NC. My reasoning for continually drilling this with my REVO software was trying to find a solution for the other guys who have contacted me on the issue. It's easy for me to switch since the cost is NOTHING! But for everyone else that is fighting the same issue, it's $700. Hard for most people to just cough up $700 to change to another software or $650 to buy injectors and another $700 to change software.
> 
> I have been trying to help the community of guys that have the same software and issues that I do. Should I just say f*ck them and go fix my car and not worry with them any more? For most people, I'm sure that's the easy thing to do, but I actually like to figure out the issue and try to fix it. In the end, if it means switching software and leaving the rest of the guys to fend for themselves, so be it.....that's what I'll do. But I'd rather not and just work to figure this out.
> 
> ...


You may not have to pay but it will still cost you tuning credits to switch to Uni even if you are a dealer, nothing is free. 

Chris coming into a thread is typically a high speed train wreck with bodies strewn about, did you expect any different? LOL. 

The problem with switching software and injectors for something wrong is the something wrong will chase you and the $ you spent, as long as you still have the time and patience to do it I'd continue to try to track it down. Send the logs to Revo and see what they can come up with.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

bostonaudi1 said:


> You may not have to pay but it will still cost you tuning credits to switch to Uni even if you are a dealer, nothing is free.
> 
> Chris coming into a thread is typically a high speed train wreck with bodies strewn about, did you expect any different? LOL.
> 
> The problem with switching software and injectors for something wrong is the something wrong will chase you and the $ you spent, as long as you still have the time and patience to do it I'd continue to try to track it down. Send the logs to Revo and see what they can come up with.


I have my ways of getting the software and not costing credits either, but that's not my point as I said. I can get the flash, I could buy the S3 injectors at cost(or from a source I found for cheap). But I'm trying to help a handful of guys out who have been following this issue as I have been. 

I would love nothing more than to just get with a development engineer for REVO and ride around while he logs and looks at whatever it is they need to see. But everyone here knows that's impossible and never going to happen. And I'm by no means a software engineer when it comes to looking at every little piece of data and knowing what it is supposed to be doing on my "modified" car when compared to a base map from the ECM. 

Hell, if I were just now going to K04 and got this flash right off the bat, I would probably be more than happy with it. Not as aggressive as all the REVO software I've progressed through, but it still pulls hard right to 15PSI and then will gradually still climb to 19/20PSI if you hold your foot to the floor. I can get up to about 20PSI and hold in 4th gear, but I'm doing 120MPH before it hits and holds the 20PSI. I'm stubborn and won't stop at this, but I have my other projects that are starting to take priority because the gains from mods are soo much more drastic and fun.

I'm at 170,XXX miles now, and as I've stated, the engine will be gone through and prepped for big turbo at 200K miles. So the way I look at it, I have about 30K miles to play with this and try to figure things out before abandoning ship completely and letting Pete(SmitherSP on here) deal with the K04 file since he'll be inheriting my setup:laugh:

Til then, I'll keep you guys updated if I find anything between my new and old logs. I'm not gonna sit here and wage war on the forums. I'll spectate opcorn:
-J. Hines


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Chris,

I have PMed you here and emailed Revo. I would like to be able to hit 22 PSI like the other tunes. I emailed logs. Still no answer......


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## [email protected]evo USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> I call tech support and end up on hold for 15-20 minutes at a time waiting to get in touch with someone, so no....my attempts are pretty few. I e-mail and it goes unreturned. Just let me know what you want logged and I'll provide it. Wastegate duty cycle, boost request/actual, RPM?
> What's YOUR e-mail and I'll send it straight to you. Seems that the tech support address given on the website goes into oblivion or something.



Again stop lying out your ass it is pathetic..

You know how again I know you are lying? I'm tech support right now and I NEVER put anyone on hold every. 

Your last email was over 5 months ago and had no information on your boost, if you need me to tell you how to log boost you should probably find a new line of work.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Right...
> 
> What products are those btw ?
> 
> ...



STaSIS only currently sells Audi products but does also own this company called eurojet, believe you have head of them? They do not currently sell outside the US so access to Revos 400+ dealers in 35 countries and growing is a bonus to them.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> Unitronic does offer K04 flashes with RS4 injectors. It works without MIL, but still has the smoking and rough idle when it's below 30* outside. That doesn't matter since I'm in NC. My reasoning for continually drilling this with my REVO software was trying to find a solution for the other guys who have contacted me on the issue. It's easy for me to switch since the cost is NOTHING! But for everyone else that is fighting the same issue, it's $700. Hard for most people to just cough up $700 to change to another software or $650 to buy injectors and another $700 to change software.



Why are people contacting you and not us? Where are all these supposed people with problems?

Nothing against Boston but he was douped by all your BS that you spew in this thread and thought he had to spend money on someone elses software. While he might not be angry with us he is certainly uhappy and it is all because you are trying to make a buck and try and bring down someone who's products you don't sell. 

Thanks for at least finally admitting our product is superior to the one you keep tricking people into paying you for. Please just stop using our name for your personal gains.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Chris,
> 
> I have PMed you here and emailed Revo. I would like to be able to hit 22 PSI like the other tunes. I emailed logs. Still no answer......



You sent the logs to our UK office and they were just forwarded to me a day ago, there is no rpm info and no way to tell what is going on in them. There are numerous areas of the logs where you are hitting and holding just about max pressure on the map sensor, which isn't 15psi..

Do a log of actual and requested boost with rpm in third gear from about 2K rpm to redline, don't shift don't start higher in the rpms don't let off before redline.

The logs sent are useless.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Again stop lying out your ass it is pathetic..
> 
> You know how again I know you are lying? I'm tech support right now and I NEVER put anyone on hold every.
> 
> Your last email was over 5 months ago and had no information on your boost, if you need me to tell you how to log boost you should probably find a new line of work.


I never make it to tech support......that's the issue. The girl that answers the phones says tech support is busy and puts me on hold. But whatever Chris......REVO has the best tech support out there and never lets anyone down. I'm sorry I questioned you and your supreme mass of knowledge. And yes, my last e-mail was about trying to get the too rich at idle issue fixed. Which I'll hand it to your guys......you seemed to fix it. There have been no MIL lights or anything since that flash you made. Just a MIL fix came at the cost of 10PSI boost it seems. 

If you'll take down your d*mn guard on here for one second, and work with us, then maybe we can see something wrong in the flash(or our hardware incompatibilty). Or maybe not. I'm not putting REVO down as I've said before.....otherwise why would I still have your software? It's by far the most aggressive tune I've ran as far as pushing the tune farther than is "safe" which is where APR is at. I'll deal with issues and work through them to have a car that performs closer to it's limits.....that's all I want to do is get boost back!

If you want JUST boost logs, that's what I'll send. Hell, I'll just log every MVB in the ECM that is relevant to power curves and send that. We have before logs of my car as well.....so we have stuff from when I was on the original flash back in early 2010 and from this past Nov. when I got the "b" file.

No hostility is meant here Chris, just when you throw sh*t at someone, they're probably gonna throw it back. I by no means am here to promote APR even though we're a dealer. That was not on my part and we couldn't get REVO because of the proximity of the next dealer.....it'd be pointless. So instead, we end up being GMP Performance's b*tch and do all their APR flashes for pennies on the dollar. So trust me, we get no benefit other than customer relations from doing them and promoting APR.
-J. Hines


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> I never make it to tech support......that's the issue. The girl that answers the phones says tech support is busy and puts me on hold.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Who the hell are you calling? Keep digging your hole. :thumbdown:

There is no girl that answers, there is no receptionist here. If you call for tech support it rings right to my desk. Hell its even my voice in the call tree.


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## fahrenheitstephen (Jun 25, 2010)

For what it's worth, I have revo stage 3 k04 and I DO get the rich at idle code when it gets lower than 60degrees which is rare in Florida. I love the software and I have ridden in an apr k04 and unitronic k04 and they feel much slower. I really don't care about the mil Because that specific code isn't really bad besides it just running a little rich at idle. For everyone else the software performs great and I don't even notice the rs4 injectors vs stock. I have the original software and don't plan on getting the new update that has come out that j.hines has.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

fahrenheitstephen said:


> For what it's worth, I have revo stage 3 k04 and I DO get the rich at idle code when it gets lower than 60degrees which is rare in Florida. I love the software and I have ridden in an apr k04 and unitronic k04 and they feel much slower. I really don't care about the mil Because that specific code isn't really bad besides it just running a little rich at idle. For everyone else the software performs great and I don't even notice the rs4 injectors vs stock. I have the original software and don't plan on getting the new update that has come out that j.hines has.



The version jhines has and sickt and others is by no means it, but unforutnately no one has provided us with actual information about them just posts complaining. They might as well have written their thoughts in a journal and hide it under their bed. Posting a problem in a thread and providing the manufacture with NO information at all doesn't get anything resolved.

Nothing was changed in regards to boost with the version you have vs what j has but he supposed makes no boost. The logs I have from sickt show 22+psi of boost but has no rpm and here is no way to figure out what is going on (plus they were sent a few days ago on a file built months ago). 

we don't build an entire library until we get feedback, we got no feedback and this is why your file probably has not been updated yet. Had they actually contacted us and given us feedback and logs about their boost we could have addressed it but they didn't. Once we actually get some information we can use and figure out why they are suddenly making less boost we'll have files with more boost and no rich code. Can't fix what you don't know about. 

Which just reinforces my point, j posts here many times a day but has made no attempt to contact us since last year!


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> You sent the logs to our UK office and they were just forwarded to me a day ago, there is no rpm info and no way to tell what is going on in them. There are numerous areas of the logs where you are hitting and holding just about max pressure on the map sensor, which isn't 15psi..
> 
> Do a log of actual and requested boost with rpm in third gear from about 2K rpm to redline, don't shift don't start higher in the rpms don't let off before redline.
> 
> The logs sent are useless.


Ok, I apologize, new to logging. What email should I send them to? I am in no way trying to start ****. I rode with my friend who has APR'd K04 and saw his boost gauge stay at around 20-21 PSI. And as stated, I stay steady at 15 PSI, and only hit 20PSI after 100 MPH, according to my boost gauge. No worries, ill make some logs and send them your way next week.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Ok, I apologize, new to logging. What email should I send them to?



Send it directly to me, [email protected]

IF you are logging with your dealer just have them call me while the car is there and we'll make sure we get the info needed.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

^^ No problem.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Btw Chris, what plugs and gap do you recommend for K04 setup? Im just running OEM spec right now.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Why are people contacting you and not us? Where are all these supposed people with problems?
> 
> Nothing against Boston but he was douped by all your BS that you spew in this thread and thought he had to spend money on someone elses software. While he might not be angry with us he is certainly uhappy and it is all because you are trying to make a buck and try and bring down someone who's products you don't sell.
> 
> Thanks for at least finally admitting our product is superior to the one you keep tricking people into paying you for. Please just stop using our name for your personal gains.


Don't blame JHines for me not using Uni on this go around. The local Revo tuner here in Charleston is a complete tool and I wasn't going to give him my business anyhow. I've been using Revo for long time and will use it again in future no doubt. I am not unhappy with the Uni tune. I do miss using the SPS, that still puts Revo ahead of the pack IMO.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

bostonaudi1 said:


> Don't blame JHines for me not using Uni on this go around. The local Revo tuner here in Charleston is a complete tool and I wasn't going to give him my business anyhow. I've been using Revo for long time and will use it again in future no doubt. I am not unhappy with the Uni tune. I do miss using the SPS, that still puts Revo ahead of the pack IMO.


REVO has pretty much ditched SPS as you refer to it. 

Everything after the FSI, SPS only switches between octane modes. No B, T, F.

Dave


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## acespizee (Dec 19, 2007)

crew219 said:


> REVO has pretty much ditched SPS as you refer to it.
> 
> Everything after the FSI, SPS only switches between octane modes. No B, T, F.
> 
> Dave


Whats that got to do with anything ? 

All this talk is based on FSI cars :facepalm:


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

*Revo settings*

So my battery was completely dead for a little over 4 days due to some issues with my aftermarket head unit. I noticed that I could not boost past 10 PSI. Did basic troubleshooting and in the end found that my settings had been changed. However, I do not remember what my settings should be. I changed them quick to: 
Boost - 9
Timing - 6
Fuel - 8

Are these correct? Can I make them more aggressive? Mods in sig, running 93 octane gas.


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

any more updates from people with the revised k04 software? How is it running now that the weather is warmer?

I got the too rich at idle code when it as 50F out a few weeks ago and was thinking of trying out the new revised version


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

skateboy918 said:


> any more updates from people with the revised k04 software? How is it running now that the weather is warmer?
> 
> I got the too rich at idle code when it as 50F out a few weeks ago and was thinking of trying out the new revised version


No faults with the new tune. Not really concerned with the 15PSI peak anymore. I just use this car to commute and get decent MPG and use my VR MK2 for having fun. But it's no MIL and fuel trims are dead on with revision tune.
-J. Hines


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## anthonynoahan (Jun 7, 2012)

I had gone through the post. I had installed a ko4 last fall, and have been running it on Revo Stg 2 tune with some changes. I had upgraded from HPFP and installed RS4 installers. I need some thing which is better than now available one. Please produce some more attachments for the more detailed view and also produce some more information about the latest updates in the systems.


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## AckermanA3 (May 16, 2010)

*Help/news*

1st help. I have k04, rs4 injectors and apr hpfp. Got it tuned today and it's only boosting to 13 and holding at 10/11 cars not as powerful as it was at stage 2 with an exhaust leak. The settings I had put on are 6B 4T 9F please advise what your settings are and what you're boosting.

NOW the NEWS

Revo is creating a tune for north America for use with s3 injectors! Apparently this was decided this week, kinda ****ty for people who wanted to use s3 injectors and went rs4 but awesome for everyone that was worried about going to the rs4s


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

AckermanA3 said:


> 1st help. I have k04, rs4 injectors and apr hpfp. Got it tuned today and it's only boosting to 13 and holding at 10/11 cars not as powerful as it was at stage 2 with an exhaust leak. The settings I had put on are 6B 4T 9F please advise what your settings are and what you're boosting.
> 
> NOW the NEWS
> 
> Revo is creating a tune for north America for use with s3 injectors! Apparently this was decided this week, kinda ****ty for people who wanted to use s3 injectors and went rs4 but awesome for everyone that was worried about going to the rs4s


I run 9-6-9 and boost dead on 15psi and hold there. Every now and then if I ease into 3rd gear and keep in it to full throttle, I can get to 21psi and the car actually pulls nice. But usually I'm boosting 15psi.

Yea, at a cost for S3 injectors, you can change tunes. I'm just playing with my other cars and just using the GLI for fuel mileage on trips til I go through the engine and build it for big turbo.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Switch to Unitronic. Revo K04 tune sucks. I hit 22psi with no problems and power is instantenous.


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## AckermanA3 (May 16, 2010)

U can get s3 injectors for decent price if u get the Bosch ones not re branded Audi.

Is that unitronics tune with rs4's?

I saw 24peak psi when I has stage 2 software... I turned settings down to 1 2 9 and It went down to 10,15ish, i installed rs4 injectors and took a few logs a few misfire didnt really drive it and now with stg 3 tune I have max 12 psi and holds at 10, constant misfire at idle on a specific cylinder... My stage 2 k03 was stronger...I'm searching for boost leaks and trying to find misfiring cause. Yay.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

I would definitely consider a REVO S3 file if they made one available. :thumbup: I have the money to go K04 but refuse to buy another software solution at full price! :thumbdown:


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

AckermanA3 said:


> U can get s3 injectors for decent price if u get the Bosch ones not re branded Audi.
> 
> Is that unitronics tune with rs4's?
> 
> I saw 24peak psi when I has stage 2 software... I turned settings down to 1 2 9 and It went down to 10,15ish, i installed rs4 injectors and took a few logs a few misfire didnt really drive it and now with stg 3 tune I have max 12 psi and holds at 10, constant misfire at idle on a specific cylinder... My stage 2 k03 was stronger...I'm searching for boost leaks and trying to find misfiring cause. Yay.


Yes, with RS4's. i was running my settings at 9-5-9 and barely saw 20 PSI. Those settings are why youre seeing low boost.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

AckermanA3 said:


> NOW the NEWS
> 
> Revo is creating a tune for north America for use with s3 injectors! Apparently this was decided this week, kinda ****ty for people who wanted to use s3 injectors and went rs4 but awesome for everyone that was worried about going to the rs4s


 Can you provide some info one this? Where did you hear this? Can you provide a link/citation?


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## AckermanA3 (May 16, 2010)

SmithersSP said:


> Can you provide some info one this? Where did you hear this? Can you provide a link/citation?


This is not official as of right now. I had my car tuned for rs4 injectors and it was something I was informed of by my tuners. The tune is APARENTLY under development. You may want to contact revo directly via phone and speak with Chris. I have no reason to call as I have rs4's but I'm sure everyone would like confirmation.


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

AckermanA3 said:


> This is not official as of right now. I had my car tuned for rs4 injectors and it was something I was informed of by my tuners. The tune is APARENTLY under development. You may want to contact revo directly via phone and speak with Chris. I have no reason to call as I have rs4's but I'm sure everyone would like confirmation.


Please post any confirmation from Revo about an s3 tune in this thread. I think a lot of people would be interested.


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## AckermanA3 (May 16, 2010)

I hate this! 
 So my cars still in my garage, I don't drive anymore. 
The poor idle has gotten worse with the cold, cars now stalling. I've pulled injectors, re seated and replaced gasket and no change. My car was misfiring before Revo tune but after injector install, and after tune still misfiring, is this an indication the tune isn't working? 

What can I check? Would my intake cause the horrible misfiring?(I have read about specific intakes and poor Maf locations causing issues) 
My tuner didn't tune my sps+ Anyone know if the switch will still activate my k04 tune even tho last time I used it was with k03 stage 2? 
I want to pull battery lead and see if it acts the same (maybe it's a tune issue) but I'm afraid of losing the tune and not being able to put it back. 
Please help!


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

brekdown29 said:


> Please post any confirmation from Revo about an s3 tune in this thread. I think a lot of people would be interested.


I guess the S3 vs RS4 injectors with the revo K04 file might not make a difference in whether or not the "too rich at idle" code would be cured.

From this thread here: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=358457

it looks like both REVO K04 file whether with S3 or RS4 injectors have this issue.

has the US version of this fix been released yet?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

americanh3art said:


> I guess the S3 vs RS4 injectors with the revo K04 file might not make a difference in whether or not the "too rich at idle" code would be cured.
> 
> From this thread here: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=358457
> 
> ...


I have the "b" flash for the K04 with RS4 injectors and no MIL for fuel trims or anything. Car idles somewhat better when cold outside, but still stutters til warm. But all the tuners with RS4 injector files do this. The ONLY issue I have had with the newer flash is the boost will not get above 16PSI unless you do a slow roll into the throttle in 3rd/4th gear. You can't just launch and go WOT or it'll hit a brick wall at 15PSI. It's my daily-driven car and I have moved on to my other toys, so the power loss is behind me now. Car still serves it's purpose as a DD and gets 34MPG, so that'll do til I'm ready to go bigger turbo and built motor.
-J. Hines


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

AckermanA3 said:


> I hate this!
> So my cars still in my garage, I don't drive anymore.
> The poor idle has gotten worse with the cold, cars now stalling. I've pulled injectors, re seated and replaced gasket and no change. My car was misfiring before Revo tune but after injector install, and after tune still misfiring, is this an indication the tune isn't working?
> 
> ...


If you had misfires after installing the injectors, but not before (independent of software) you likely have a faulty injector. Run a log on the misfire counters and try to isolate which cylinder is acting up. If they all misfire then something else. If just one or two try swapping plugs and coil packs to eliminate those first. If you have the switcher you can restore tune after a battery disconnect, but that isn't going to cure a misfire. If might be less bad though.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Nearing 2013 there is still absolutely 0 reason why anyone should ever tune RS4 injectors for an FSI K04.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

americanh3art said:


> I guess the S3 vs RS4 injectors with the revo K04 file might not make a difference in whether or not the "too rich at idle" code would be cured.
> 
> From this thread here: http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=358457
> 
> it looks like both REVO K04 file whether with S3 or RS4 injectors have this issue.



That is an update for FACTORY K04 cars with FACTORY issues of throwing the too rich at idle code, not cars with k04 upgrades.


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Nearing 2013 there is still absolutely 0 reason why anyone should ever tune RS4 injectors for an FSI K04.


Bingo :thumbup:


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## 100% Euro (Jul 29, 2008)

I have Revo now as a stage 2+ and would love to stick with the company but this thread has me wondering if I should switch. I am now not sure what injectors to buy and not sure if Revo is doing another version of the tune like APR has.


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

I'm not using my RS4 injectors for anything but a BT upgrade. KO4 isn't worth the time or money if it doesn't perform as smooth and as trouble-free as stock.


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

brekdown29 said:


> I'm not using my RS4 injectors for anything but a BT upgrade. KO4 isn't worth the time or money if it doesn't perform as smooth and as trouble-free as stock.


You sir, hit the nail squarely on the head. Good advice.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

brekdown29 said:


> I'm not using my RS4 injectors for anything but a BT upgrade. *KO4 isn't worth the time or money if it doesn't perform as smooth and as trouble-free as stock.*





bostonaudi1 said:


> You sir, hit the nail squarely on the head. Good advice.


Except for *this*^ 
I possibly may have this out of context, yes? no?


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Is there still issues with REVO and their RS4 injectors in the K04 kit? I get that they are cheaper to obtain than the S3/ed30 ones, but why do it? And, why not do another remap for S3/ed30 injectors. Evolution is definitely being requested of REVO often, right? In Europe their K04 remap is for use of S3/ed30 injectors so.....


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## Space9888 (Mar 18, 2002)

sounds to me like a bad front o2 sensor, ive seen the same conditions despite the differences in fuel injection on MKIV's EXACT same conditions. 

when i had a MKIV i was replacing front 02 sensors about every 20k w/ k04 and revo stg II sometimes i could push it further. Either way once i started bogging down rich and running ****ty front 02 sensor was ALWAYS the issue. 

Revo Runs great when the 02's are good but the rich conditions burn them out quick, once they burn out you get a BAD readings the ecu cant compensate for, imho hence your adaptation readings.

but imho revo is tunes are more geared towards full throttle/track driving, if you arent ripping around maybe turn your boost down w/ an sps 3 for normal driving to cut back your fuel trims, that seemed to work for me in the past.
you guys gotta keep in mind unless you unplug the battery, or clear the ecu like everyday, the long term fuel trim window adapts each time you drive based on the short term fuel trim, so to see
whats really going on you need to not clear the ecu for about a week. to learn what the fuel trends really are.


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

posting this so everyone is aware that REVO is *IGNORING* this issue and will NOT do anything to help anyone with this problem. Needless to say, I will never put REVO product anywhere near my car even if they paid me to

I got this in email from REVO - feel free to email them yourself to confirm if you do not believe me



> Unfortunately the switch to S3 injectors was from the top and there will be no updates to the Rs4 files I am told.


Looks like they found a way to fix this issue with the S3 injectors so they ditch all the customers who uses RS4 injectors with the K04 and going with S3 injectors with the K04 software to makes things easier for them

REVO annouces S3 injector K04 software fix here that resolves the "too rich at idle" issue


> http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=358457


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

americanh3art said:


> posting this so everyone is aware that REVO is *IGNORING* this issue and will NOT do anything to help anyone with this problem. Needless to say, I will never put REVO product anywhere near my car even if they paid me to
> 
> I got this in email from REVO - feel free to email them yourself to confirm if you do not believe me
> 
> ...


They have a file to correct the "Too rich at idle" fault that everyone with RS4 injectors has. I got that flash a long time ago, it was the "b" revision flash. I'll give them credit in the fact that it did fix the code.....hasn't been back since. Still has rough idle when cold and smokes worse than a diesel on accel, but that's just the RS4 injectors. All the software companies have that issue with these injectors. 

But my issue is that when the reconfigured flash went in, I dropped boost down to 15PSI unless I ease very slowly into the throttle. But if all goes well I'll have a fix for you guys who have RS4 injectors. Just have to get my logs sent off and get some more feedback. But I'll post in here and keep those of you who still have the issue in the loop. My GLI is my daily and I'm not looking to throw $600 into new S3 injectors, so I'm just getting another flash to "make it by" for now until this becomes my toy car and gets bigger turbo. But til the K04 gets too old to perform, that won't be happening anytime soon.

-J. Hines


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

So does this mean I can get an S3 tune here in the states? 
As I've always said I would consider going K04 if REVO can provide me with a S3 based tune.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

americanh3art said:


> posting this so everyone is aware that REVO is *IGNORING* this issue and will NOT do anything to help anyone with this problem. Needless to say, I will never put REVO product anywhere near my car even if they paid me to
> 
> I got this in email from REVO - feel free to email them yourself to confirm if you do not believe me


Actually we are looking into it, nice to ignore the last emails i Sent you over a week ago stating so in an attempt to attack us.



> Looks like they found a way to fix this issue with the S3 injectors so they ditch all the customers who uses RS4 injectors with the K04 and going with S3 injectors with the K04 software to makes things easier for them
> 
> REVO annouces S3 injector K04 software fix here that resolves the "too rich at idle" issue


Get over this.. That tune and your car have NOTHING in common. The issue was with a too rich at idle code in factory applications it had nothing to do with you, your car, S3 or Rs4 injectors or even us. The dozen emails you sent demanding we prove to you that this was a factory problem that had no affect on your car and this post a week after we said we are looking into the Rs4 injector tuners again only proves your intent is to come here and attack us with no desire to see a resolution.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

jhines_06gli said:


> But my issue is that when the reconfigured flash went in, I dropped boost down to 15PSI unless I ease very slowly into the throttle. But if all goes well I'll have a fix for you guys who have RS4 injectors. Just have to get my logs sent off and get some more feedback. But I'll post in here and keep those of you who still have the issue in the loop. My GLI is my daily and I'm not looking to throw $600 into new S3 injectors, so I'm just getting another flash to "make it by" for now until this becomes my toy car and gets bigger turbo. But til the K04 gets too old to perform, that won't be happening anytime soon.
> 
> -J. Hines


Why not actually send us logs? You've been claiming for a year now that the car makes only 15psi but have never once provided us any logs or information outside of posts here to even verify with us that is what is going on. 

One other customer made the same comment because he read it here but his logs show he is requesting and making 1.2-1.3 bar through most of the rev range.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Chris,
Not trolling here. Serious question. Can I get an S3 K04 tune?  Love my stgII+ and have for years but I would prefer an S3 based tune if I am to go K04. Thanks!:thumbup:


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

Yes the S3 tunes are available in US/Canada now. To upgrade from 2+ it would be 100 bucks.


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Actually we are looking into it, nice to ignore the last emails i Sent you over a week ago stating so in an attempt to attack us.


really now? the last email I recieved from you is on JAN-8-2013 at exactly 2:55:50PM states:



> For your car I have passed your emails along to the staff members who decided to not update your file. There is nothing more I can do.


Do you want me to post a print screen on it? well here it is:


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## ghoastoflyle (Jan 21, 2003)

been holding off until I make the last payment on my car to get a tune... It's coming up and I wish I was considering revo. Revo: Do it right :banghead:


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

REVO Post #3 5/26/2011 


[email protected] said:


> When we were orginaly developing the stage 3 KO4 software for North America there was no over the counter source for S3 injectors. You were forced to import them yourself or find one of only a few suppliers at the time stocking them. Choosing Rs4 injectors allowed you to walk into any Audi dealer and some VW dealers who had access to Audi parts to get them for you next day.
> 
> Since then the TTS has become available here but we already had 100s of cars running RS4 injectors, switching injectors would cause too much confusion for our customers, dealers and even potential future owners of vehicles who may not know which injectors were in the car. Basically it would just create a whole lot of problems that don't need to exist since the current injector offerings are perfect fine.
> 
> *There are no S3 injector files available for any application in the US/Canada.*


 REVO Post #5 5/26/2011 


[email protected] said:


> *There is no reason to run S3 injectors. The Rs4 injectors work 100% fine.*
> 
> The reason we do not want to switch now is because there are too many cars that are running the current injectors. If one of those cars gets sold they may not understand there were two options, the only way for them to figure it out is to take it a part. It simply is not worth the hassle. Someone may think they have the one injectors and have the file for an other and then spend time chasing a problem that could have been prevented by just not making it a choice.
> 
> ...


 REVO Post #429 1/17/2013 


[email protected] said:


> Yes the S3 tunes are available in US/Canada now. To upgrade from 2+ it would be 100 bucks.


 How does this make you guys feel? If this isn't a perfect example of being a hypocrite, I dont know what is. 

Again I think it all comes down to them not being able to fix the RS4 injector K04 file of this TOO RICH issue so they finally just said F it and went with the S3 injector for the K04 and just IGNORE all buyers who already invested money into the RS4 injector K04 file.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

americanh3art said:


> How does this make you guys feel? If this isn't a perfect example of being a hypocrite, I dont know what is.


 It makes me feel nothing, as I told you dozens of times already they wanted the same injectors used around the world now that S3 injectors are easily available in the US. Great you quoted something from 2 years ago to say the contrary. NOTHING you have ever stated years ago has been changed by management decisions? 

Your posts and emails to me are only making one thing clear and that is a resolution is the last thing you want, a fight is the first thing. Take a minute to actually read and stop trying to fight. 




> Again I think it all comes down to them not being able to fix the RS4 injector K04 file of this TOO RICH issue so they finally just said F it and went with the S3 injector for the K04 and just IGNORE all buyers who already invested money into the RS4 injector K04 file.


 Actually we have thousands of cars running them around the world with both K04s and GT30s without a problem. Hell if you actually read this post you would see that several users have verified that they have files with the problem fixed. If we can address it is not an issue as we have, the issue comes down to the fact that the management decided they wanted one injector used around the world for the k04 files. Nothing more, no matter how hard you try to make it into something else.


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

why dont you address this comment you made to me in email? 



> For your car I have passed your emails along to the staff members who decided to not update your file. There is nothing more I can do.


 funny how in this thread you said REVO IS WORKING ON IT and it email you said you're not going to do anything about it


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

americanh3art said:


> why dont you address this comment you made to me in email?
> 
> 
> 
> funny how in this thread you said REVO IS WORKING ON IT and it email you said you're not going to do anything about it


 
You do realize that me saying that its passed along to the people who make the decision means that i have done what I can and I can't do anything more about it right? There is nothing to address. 

Are you that incapable of reading a sentence? Or just too busy now going around and harrassing our customers by sending PMs to people who ask about our products?


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> You do realize that me saying that its passed along to the people who make the decision means that i have done what I can and I can't do anything more about it right? There is nothing to address.
> 
> Are you that incapable of reading a sentence? Or just too busy now going around and harrassing our customers by sending PMs to people who ask about our products?


 You posted on the FORUM thread on *JAN-17-2013* stating you are looking into it but you actually already told me via email on *JAN-08-2013* that revo is going to do NOTHING about the too rich at idle issue. 

The only reason you said that in the FORUM is to make the APPEARANCE that something might be done when NOTHING is going to be done - This seems to be the trend I see with REVO customer support...


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

I stated to you in that email that I passed it along to the people who decided that it wasn't worth having to get them to start working on it again. Sorry this is hard for you to understand. But like 99% of your emails which you were demanding answers to why we fixed a factory problem in a car that has nothing to do with you, your rants are also irrelevant.

Also why is time hard for you to understand? You have a problem that 2 years ago we stated we had no interest in doing S3 tunes but later decided to so this means we lied? Now I tell you something in an email that you didn't understand and then a week later get confused by my post and say my new statement is wrong. 

You wanted us to address this for you, we are, I don't think anyone would really understand what exactly you are going on and on about. Would you prefer we stop building your updated file because my first response was that I can't submit the request? Is that what you are telling me?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Nearing 2013 there is still absolutely 0 reason why anyone should ever tune RS4 injectors for an FSI K04.


 


[email protected];80420896 on 01-17-2013 said:


> Yes the S3 tunes are available in US/Canada now. To upgrade from 2+ it would be 100 bucks.


 2013. :thumbup:


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I stated to you in that email that I passed it along to the people who decided that it wasn't worth having to get them to start working on it again. Sorry this is hard for you to understand. But like 99% of your emails which you were demanding answers to why we fixed a factory problem in a car that has nothing to do with you, your rants are also irrelevant.
> 
> Also why is time hard for you to understand? You have a problem that 2 years ago we stated we had no interest in doing S3 tunes but later decided to so this means we lied? Now I tell you something in an email that you didn't understand and then a week later get confused by my post and say my new statement is wrong.
> 
> You wanted us to address this for you, we are, I don't think anyone would really understand what exactly you are going on and on about. Would you prefer we stop building your updated file because my first response was that I can't submit the request? Is that what you are telling me?


 again why dont you stop and READ: 

1) I wrote in THIS thread revo is NOT doing anything for the too rich at idle issue 
2) YOU wrote in THIS thread that you're looking into it 
3) I showed clearly in an email from YOU to ME that you stated REVO is NOT going to do anything about the too rich at idle code for ME - *do you dispute this? read your own email to me* 

In the end, just come out and post in THIS thread what you already told me - that revo is NOT doing anything about the too rich at idle issue - which is EXATCLY what I wrote in THIS thread to begin with that got you all fussy


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Nearing 2013 there is still absolutely 0 reason why anyone should ever tune RS4 injectors for an FSI K04.


 What a douche bag you are! 

K04 runs fine on RS4's. I've been running it now for almost a year, and through harsh Upstate NY winter. I switched to Unitronic's K04 w/ RS4 file and have way more power. Also, I am super disappointed in Revo. I spoke to Chris at Waterfest and gave him my information willing to spend more than the cost of a tune to drive to DC and let them use my Touareg to update their 3.0L TDI tune. I reached out via email and Facebook even. Nothing. Now thats poor in my opinion.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

americanh3art said:


> In the end, just come out and post in THIS thread what you already told me - that revo is NOT doing anything about the too rich at idle issue -


 Why are you demanding that I lie? 

Why not actually get me your ecu ID so I can see if we even already have your file done. In all your emails where you were insisting I tell you about factory problems in cars in other countries that have nothing to do with you the one thing you kept glancing over time an time again was YOUR car. Nothing about the actual problems you have. I don't even know if you have an A3 or a GTI or a Jetta. It took you 8 emails to even tell me what exactly you were having a problem with.


You do realize that 99% of the current problem right now is that you refuse to actually allow us to work with you right? That you didn't send us an email about any problems until about 1 month ago, how does a company fix a problem you never contact them about?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> . I spoke to Chris at Waterfest and gave him my information willing to spend more than the cost of a tune to drive to DC and let them use my Touareg to update their 3.0L TDI tune. I reached out via email and Facebook even. Nothing. Now thats poor in my opinion.


 
Actually that was not me, we did speak but you did not speak to me about us using your vehicle for testing that software, it was someone else here. 

We are/were grateful that you offered the vehicle but just because a vehicle is offered does not mean we suddenly have the time and resources to drop everything else and suddenly bring an entirely new product to market. I get calls and emails daily of people asking us to tune their STI, their civic, their dodge truck. Just because they offer doesn't mean its a viable product for us at the time. The 3.0 TDI stuff is something we are interested in doing in the US, the current demand is very low compared to some other products/projects so those get priority.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Actually that was not me, we did speak but you did not speak to me about us using your vehicle for testing that software, it was someone else here.
> 
> We are/were grateful that you offered the vehicle but just because a vehicle is offered does not mean we suddenly have the time and resources to drop everything else and suddenly bring an entirely new product to market. I get calls and emails daily of people asking us to tune their STI, their civic, their dodge truck. Just because they offer doesn't mean its a viable product for us at the time. The 3.0 TDI stuff is something we are interested in doing in the US, the current demand is very low compared to some other products/projects so those get priority.


 Then my apologies. Actually, it was Robin now that I think of it. Why was he so excited then? He stated that there were many people asking for it. Smh...guess ill just have Uni tune it then.


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## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

Maybe it’s just me, but I really never had an issue with Revo Support. Back when I stage 2/2+. I brought up some issues I was having with the tune, after a few talks and data exchanges with Chris, that next month we meet up at TPC Racing in Jessup, Maryland. Chris and another engineer took the time and made changes, logged and flashed some new files for me. 
Then a year or so later, I decided to install a GT3071r on the car and decided to use Revo's stage 4 software. As I was fabricating the turbo kit, I expressed interest in using an internally wastegated version of the GT3071r. Chris in numerous e-mails stated that tune was calibrated around a 44mm wastegate with 14.5 psi spring setup. I asked how would internally wastegated setup work with the software. Once again Chris insisted It probably won't work that well, but Revo and I worked/communicated together and tried the internally wastegated setup. Gguess what? It didn't work that great, but Revo did give support, even after they insisted not to use the internal wastegate. After that, I switched to externally wastegate setup and continued to work with Revo on stage 4 software and then eventually I was running their Stage 2 DSG. Hell, with the DSG, after some communication and data exchange, Revo built a file DSG, so I could launch at 5000 rpms. With the help from Revo, I was able to produce 380-400 whp on stock block and ran a few 11.4 @ 121 mph 1/4 mile runs and this on a stock block and stock DSG. Hell, there’s built engines that are just now starting to reach those numbers. I didn’t just do this on my car either, I help build Mrbilke’s setup and we were able to reproduce the same results. 
Beginning of 2012, I decided to all out and build a couple of engines, slap a bigger turbo on it and other supporting hardware. I approached Revo a few times about a tuning solution and answer was simple no and they had their reasons and I will always respect Chris/Revo for those reasons and thing I learned from them. Now, Do you hear me whine and bitch about how REVO didn't support me then? NO, I moved on, Got Maesrto and tuned the car myself.


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Why are you demanding that I lie?
> 
> Why not actually get me your ecu ID so I can see if we even already have your file done. In all your emails where you were insisting I tell you about factory problems in cars in other countries that have nothing to do with you the one thing you kept glancing over time an time again was YOUR car. Nothing about the actual problems you have. I don't even know if you have an A3 or a GTI or a Jetta. It took you 8 emails to even tell me what exactly you were having a problem with.
> 
> ...


 Chris, with all due respect. I told you what car I have, what my issue is and exactly what I was looking for help with in my very first email to you. 

Here is proof:


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

I need to know your ECU ID to verify which file you need, this is plain and simple. You can rant and rave all you want but all it does is prove that you want to have a fit and don't actually want to resolve your problems.

The fact that I have clearly stated we have files with it fixed and that we are working on resolving the others but you insisting on quoting past comments to some how prove that I its not happening again just further proves your intentions are anything but to get your car working.

Send me your ecu ID I can see about your file, it is that simple.

Less time trying to make stupid pictures for posts, more time getting your car fixed. It is 100% on you at this point and has been for a few weeks now.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Came back in to see if anyone is running the S3 tune. After skimming through I shall do this:


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I need to know your ECU ID to verify which file you need, this is plain and simple. You can rant and rave all you want but all it does is prove that you want to have a fit and don't actually want to resolve your problems.
> 
> The fact that I have clearly stated we have files with it fixed and that we are working on resolving the others but you insisting on quoting past comments to some how prove that I its not happening again just further proves your intentions are anything but to get your car working.
> 
> ...


 I emailed you all the info you requested along with 2 questions, 1 relating to switching over to s3 injectors


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## americanh3art (Nov 27, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I need to know your ECU ID to verify which file you need, this is plain and simple. You can rant and rave all you want but all it does is prove that you want to have a fit and don't actually want to resolve your problems.
> 
> The fact that I have clearly stated we have files with it fixed and that we are working on resolving the others but you insisting on quoting past comments to some how prove that I its not happening again just further proves your intentions are anything but to get your car working.
> 
> ...


Chris - it has been 2 full weeks since I have emailed you all the info you requested here. Can you please update me on it and answer my 1 question which was:

1) Is it free for me to upgrade to the S3 K04 file since I already paid the $100 to upgrade to the RS4 K04 file back in DEC-2009?


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> What a douche bag you are!
> 
> K04 runs fine on RS4's. I've been running it now for almost a year, and through harsh Upstate NY winter. I switched to Unitronic's K04 w/ RS4 file and have way more power. Also, I am super disappointed in Revo. I spoke to Chris at Waterfest and gave him my information willing to spend more than the cost of a tune to drive to DC and let them use my Touareg to update their 3.0L TDI tune. I reached out via email and Facebook even. Nothing. Now thats poor in my opinion.


 Interested in switching to uni if the smoke issue is gone can you plz pm me with details?!! Thanks


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Interested in switching to uni if the smoke issue is gone can you plz pm me with details?!! Thanks


 From talking with David and John at Unitronic, their tune has the same smoke under WOT and slight stumble when it's REALLY cold outside. The smoke is a result of the inector spray pattern, not the tune. Even the BT cars have a grey/black smoke at WOT. 

So don't think you'll get away from the smoke while keeping the RS4 injectors. No matter what tuning company you use.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> From talking with David and John at Unitronic, their tune has the same smoke under WOT and slight stumble when it's REALLY cold outside. The smoke is a result of the inector spray pattern, not the tune. Even the BT cars have a grey/black smoke at WOT.
> 
> So don't think you'll get away from the smoke while keeping the RS4 injectors. No matter what tuning company you use.


 This. It even happens to guys running S3 injectors as well. The main reason I switched was for more power.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> This. It even happens to guys running S3 injectors as well. The main reason I switched was for more power.


What hp gain would be accurate for the change to uni? Would it be smart to ho back to stage 2+ and sell my ecu then just get the tune from uni? Thanks for the input fellas


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Yes the S3 tunes are available in US/Canada now. To upgrade from 2+ it would be 100 bucks.


Ok so if i buy s3 injectors will my tune be free? Or still have to pay ? Tired of looking like i drive a diesel... And will it perform the same or better than now?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Ok so if i buy s3 injectors will my tune be free? Or still have to pay ? Tired of looking like i drive a diesel... And will it perform the same or better than now?


Just do like I did when I bought my Euro trunk lid. It still had the TDI badge on the back, so I left it. All the time people will roll up beside me after a nice spirited highway pull and thumbs up while saying "Damn that's a quick diesel!" It's quiet fun at times. I can outsmoke some of the smaller bro-dozers around here.:laugh:


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

GTI08MKV said:


> Ok so if i buy s3 injectors will my tune be free? Or still have to pay ? Tired of looking like i drive a diesel... And will it perform the same or better than now?



The price to upgrade or update to the same stage you have is always free.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> Just do like I did when I bought my Euro trunk lid. It still had the TDI badge on the back, so I left it. All the time people will roll up beside me after a nice spirited highway pull and thumbs up while saying "Damn that's a quick diesel!" It's quiet fun at times. I can outsmoke some of the smaller bro-dozers around here.:laugh:


Lol i know people stare sometimes like damn thats a nice vdub but i think its broken lol!! Kinda embarrasing at times


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The price to upgrade or update to the same stage you have is always free.


I guess im going to save up for the s3 injectors. But like i said is the performance the same my car spikes 25 psi holds 21-22 and feels great i wanna make sure it will perform the same if not better


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

B*llsh*t they just now updated tune for S3 injectors. Now youre gonna spend more money for pretty much same power. Screw that sh*t and put that money towards a GT28.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> B*llsh*t they just now updated tune for S3 injectors. Now youre gonna spend more money for pretty much same power. Screw that sh*t and put that money towards a GT28.


I like the 3071 kit but i just bought a 2013 gli and money got a little tight but i definatly like the idea of BT


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

GTI08MKV said:


> I like the 3071 kit but i just bought a 2013 gli and money got a little tight but i definatly like the idea of BT


Then mess with the GLI.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Then mess with the GLI.


I bought it for a daily probably wont do much to it but i always say that lol we shall see


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

GTI08MKV said:


> I bought it for a daily probably wont do much to it but i always say that lol we shall see


TSI K04 is nice! Lulz.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> TSI K04 is nice! Lulz.


Are u a salesman holy fu*k u got me looking up all kinds of $h*t lol!!!


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

^^ No, but ill gladly collect my commission from whiever you buy it from. Lulz. Email [email protected]. He will take care of you though.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Ok, time for resurrection update. I haven't really done much to the GLI in quite some time since I've been busy with my other cars, but figured it was time to do some work on it. 

As stated, I (and Smithers) noticed the power loss and drop down to 16PSI the night my car was flashed to the newer K04 file. Since that day, every time I've logged, all the values you monitor have been normal. Fuel trims are dead on, MAF values are correct, O2 is reading properly and all readiness status' pass.

But starting last year, I had noticed a slight drop in MPG and overall efficiency of the engine. No faults, just figured it was maybe the age/mileage of the engine catching up. But then late last Fall, when the weather started to drop down into the 40s and 30s, I began to notice that my temp. gauge was not fully getting to the center and it was taking about 3-4 minutes longer than normal for the car to get to temp. Then as Winter set in, the car would get heat, but not the blistering heat I have been used to getting from the GLI. Still no faults or anything.

In March, I finally had the MIL pop on for P2181- Cooling sys malfunction. Fault stored at 76*c indicating an issue just as the thermostat should be opening. So I got a bunch of parts together to do some work to the car. Well since I've been busy with everyone else's cars, just got around to mine. Here's what I replaced in my maint. service at 192k:
- New thermostat
- Cleaned/resealed injectors
- Cleaned carbon on valves(wasn't bad for 40k since cleaning). But I'm still getting oil residue in cyl. 4 around intake valves. Not sure if it's valve stem seals or guides
- New OE spark plugs(gapped down) 
- New front O2 sensor
And did compression test to see where I stand. 1-200, 2-202, 3-204, 4-208. So all is good there. Still have to do a leakdown test, but engine seems to be ok still. I'm still consuming about 1qt/900 miles, but that's a high-mileage FSI for you.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

My point to all this? I started this thread because of the issues I had right after the flash. Through logging with multiple people, we never saw anything abnormal or anything that changed compared to my old logs on the original K04 file.But for whatever reason, something changed after the reflash. But I did realize while talking with a fellow tech and looking at logs, we NEVER recorded the engine temps when logging. And since the gauge in the car is just for looks essentially. When it reads 190*, that could actually be 175* or 200*. It's just a gauge, not a precise reading. The car may not have been in fully closed loop yet, which would explain a lot as well. We never monitored fuel system status either.

But after beating the GLI for the past few days, I'm back at boosting 23-24PSI in higher gears and holding 21-22. So for those of you who have the issues with lower boost and loss of power on the revised flash, I'd recommend spending a little money and doing some extended maint. on the car. See if it helps. It did for me. I've tried everything before....battery VooDoo, resetting REVO settings.....you name it.

But to Chris, I'm sorry for the hassle, I cannot explain exactly what it was or why it started when I got the reflash. I guess it was the ECM relearning all the basic adaptions after the firmware upgrade. I'm guessing the thermostat being partially stuck open was dumping fuel and slowly eating front O2 sensor. But with no fault. And I had tried swapping O2 sensors before, but never for a brand new OE sensor. Always with a known good car. Nevertheless, my car actually has some power again and I can be happy with it for a while and get back on my other projects.

I hope this info helps you guys at REVO with future issues that you may see and the guys on here that have been following this thread. Sometimes it's hard to make yourself see/think outside the box when it comes to a car that usually tells you exactly what is wrong. Hope to see some of you guys at SoWo next week and good luck on fixing you FSI issues.
J. Hines

P.S. Still smokes like a diesel, but my power is back again and that's all that matters. The smoking is fine with me. Gets me comments since I do have a TDI badge on the back of my car.......have people ask how I made a diesel so fast :laugh:


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> My point to all this? I started this thread because of the issues I had right after the flash. Through logging with multiple people, we never saw anything abnormal or anything that changed compared to my old logs on the original K04 file.But for whatever reason, something changed after the reflash. But I did realize while talking with a fellow tech and looking at logs, we NEVER recorded the engine temps when logging. And since the gauge in the car is just for looks essentially. When it reads 190*, that could actually be 175* or 200*. It's just a gauge, not a precise reading. The car may not have been in fully closed loop yet, which would explain a lot as well. We never monitored fuel system status either.
> 
> But after beating the GLI for the past few days, I'm back at boosting 23-24PSI in higher gears and holding 21-22. So for those of you who have the issues with lower boost and loss of power on the revised flash, I'd recommend spending a little money and doing some extended maint. on the car. See if it helps. It did for me. I've tried everything before....battery VooDoo, resetting REVO settings.....you name it.
> 
> ...


Good for you man! 👍


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

Suup fellazz i had a question im running the atp intake with the mechanical rerout with a forge splitter holding 21-22 psi ive been hearing bad things bout my intake but to me it seems to be fine do you guys think i should invest in a new intake system? Last trip to the track was [email protected] since then i tuned my dsg stage2 and all 3 engine mounts . This week im cleaning my intake valves and installing the rs4 fuel rail valve and i will be going to the track next sunday i will post my results next week!!


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

Heres a quick pic of my setup


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

I don't see any issues with that. I'm running the early Neuspeed intake with the EuroJet DV relocate and OE plumbing. No issues. And just built my buddy's K04 using the Neuspeed intake and OE plumbing with the Forge DV on it. I'd just look at fuel trims and MAF readings and if they're good, why bother with a new intake if you like the looks of your current one.

By the way, how's the splitter sound? I have one for my Rabbit, but have debated trying it on the GLI. Just the ports are so small compared the Grenade I run now. Not sure how it'll perform compared to that.
J. Hines


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> I don't see any issues with that. I'm running the early Neuspeed intake with the EuroJet DV relocate and OE plumbing. No issues. And just built my buddy's K04 using the Neuspeed intake and OE plumbing with the Forge DV on it. I'd just look at fuel trims and MAF readings and if they're good, why bother with a new intake if you like the looks of your current one.
> 
> By the way, how's the splitter sound? I have one for my Rabbit, but have debated trying it on the GLI. Just the ports are so small compared the Grenade I run now. Not sure how it'll perform compared to that.
> J. Hines


It sounds good i used to have the forge 007


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Pretty happy with my S3 K04 tune. Feels amazing, just need to work on cyl 1/3 timing pull. Running B9-T6-F9 at the moment and me thinks I'll need to dial that B/T back a bit with all this heat. Fuel trims are dead on, no CELs. Chris was also super helpful when I got the tune at Carolina VW by emailing them the file I needed outside of business hours. :thumbup:


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

Anyone in here running the forge actuator ? I bought it a month ago and havent put it on i also bought the spring kit. Im revo stage 3 stage2 dsg all boltons engine mounts u name it its done except internals. Just curious on any tips b4 i go ahead on the install thanks in advance.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Anyone in here running the forge actuator ? I bought it a month ago and havent put it on i also bought the spring kit. Im revo stage 3 stage2 dsg all boltons engine mounts u name it its done except internals. Just curious on any tips b4 i go ahead on the install thanks in advance.


Had one on my first K03 for a week. It's not hard to install really. I had a lift, so it was much easier. There was a write-up on install and setup on GolfMKV years ago. Not sure if it's still there.

But bascially, removed p/s wheel, liner, turbo outlet pipe and p/s axle and heat shield. Then you can get at it pretty easily. All in all took me about 1.5 hours to install and setup with a life, so maybe a little longer without one. 
J. Hines


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