# DogBone bushings?



## A4 1.8 Turbo (Feb 28, 2005)

poly Bushings or the whole new assembly? One more thing to order up before I chip it, So i figured i'll get this done this week after I get some feed back from you guys.


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## sims159915 (Jan 24, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Don't get poly it vibrates the car like mad. You don't need to buy the whole assembly, just buy the stage 1 bushings from BFI. I have tried several different companies and they are the best compromise of comfort and performance. 

http://store.blackforestindust....html


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## A4 1.8 Turbo (Feb 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (sims159915)*

The ECS kit looks like a good deal, since it has all three bushings, rather than just the two big ones.


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## sims159915 (Jan 24, 2005)

*FV-QR*

You don't need the center one, just the two large ones. Take it from me, I have had many different types in my car. The BFI stage one is the best for a daily driver.


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## A4 1.8 Turbo (Feb 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (sims159915)*

10/4


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (sims159915)*

Umm, the stage 1 bushings from BFI are also poly


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (A4 1.8 Turbo)*

The small round 3rd bushing is not to be installed! This was established years ago. It will break.

_Quote, originally posted by *A4 1.8 Turbo* »_The ECS kit looks like a good deal, since it has all three bushings, rather than just the two big ones.


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## Murderface (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (BluHeaven)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluHeaven* »_The small round 3rd bushing is not to be installed! This was established years ago. It will break.

This^
I had a powerflex kit and the vibration was horrible.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Murderface)*

My ECS inserts (front two) have been awesome, and it helped big-time with how solid the front end feels and how it puts the power down...best $35 I ever spent


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## A4 1.8 Turbo (Feb 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (l88m22vette)*

alrighty then, so throw away the round one. haha.


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## edgy (May 16, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (BluHeaven)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluHeaven* »_The small round 3rd bushing is not to be installed! This was established years ago. It will break.


Can you share a link or more info on this subject? 
What do you use if you buy a complete mount with the round bush already installed?


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (edgy)*

who's selling mounts with it already installed? BFI isn't
VF engineering doesn't count because the mount is completely re-engineered. 
At the beginning everyone installed the third round bushing, and almost all of them the bushing broke. While poly is extremely strong and durable, something about the forces exerted on that spot are not compatible with it, not without a redesign a'la VF engineering or whoever.
Use the search. 
If you bought a used dogbone that has all three then just swap the main two to your original mount.


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## edgy (May 16, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (BluHeaven)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BluHeaven* »_who's selling mounts with it already installed?
 
ECS

_Quote, originally posted by *BluHeaven* »_
Use the search. 


I actually searched a good long while before I asked, but couldn't find any threads pertaining to problems except re-assembly - not saying they don't exist, I just couldn't narrow it down enough.


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## 00_Bora (Oct 15, 2005)

*FV-QR*

ive seen a lot of people, atleast in the mk4 world, snapping or cracking dogbone mounts sold as a one piece kit with the bushings...they say its stronger than stock but there are photos floating around that prove otherwise. I'd recommend just buying the bushings and put them in yourselves. Its super easy....


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

i agree with 00_Bora ... dont replace it,, put it in your stock one.. 
my comments .. USE POLY BUSHINGS FOR DOG BONE our car needs them more than you think .. 
though dont use that third round one .. it will just break . though i know some guys who did put it in ,,,, not knowing it would break . and its in been in there for 3 years and hasnt broken yet.... so who knows...
bfi stage 1 .... i think and a few others think its too soft.. its not enough support ... 
the ecs one is good
energy suspension one is good,
if your really hard core ,, and like your suspension realllllllly tight and hard. then you will prolly like the BFI stage 2, 
im not a fan of the powerflex, because someone i know had one ,and it broke .. and we cant figure out why ... and the company he bought it from... who installed it. have stopped selling it. so i dont know what happend there, but i will tend to avoid it.. ( just my $0.03) 
personally . for the price and what it is , i got the energy suspension one .. and its good, i cant notice any more vibration. and my friend with his gti got one too ,and cant tell any real more vibration either, more engine noise and the exhaust sounds throatier,,, but nothing to complain about. 
this is sorta the cheapest thing to do to your tt, that needs it, i saw the rubber oem one that was pulled out of a 15k miles tt and it was just trash, i couldnt believe that was so worn after so little mileage.
the other engine mounts i have no experience with,, the dogbone one is the major issue.. 
btw ,,for some reason and word of mouth i also stay away from the neuspeed one. just havent heard anything good..


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

Why do you think the BFI stage I is not enough support? For a DD it's probably plenty. They're 65D poly (the ECS and ES are 70D). You can get the trans and engine mount too if you need more support. The stage II is 85D which is getting into the 'too harsh' territory. 
Also... what replacement dogbones have been breaking? The BFI's use an OEM dogbone.


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

for the dog bone mount, ,my research has seen to only use OEM, bushings to use poly though. basically thers just no real point on changing the WHOLE thing, just change the bushings, i cant remember the name of the one thats out there, that is a direct replacement, and the mount isnt strong enough so it breaks. sorta not up to par of the oem one...
about the bfi stage 1,, im sorry i shouldnt say its not enough support i should say its just too soft for $ to performance. it should be GOOD for daily driving. it will be alot better than the OEM one, but really not a whole lot of performance gain. i guess thats what i should have said, i just cant remember the facts about whether the poly bushings break from being either too soft or too hard. btw bfi make wicked parts, so really anything they make ive never heard a bad thing about. 
powerflex i heard of one breaking, so i dont know ... ive never heard of any other one breaking so.... and i heard the neuspeed one just ....sucks. this i heard from word of mouth. i personally think neuspeed make wicked products too. . but so far there software, and engine mounts ....are 2 things they should just stay away from. they were great back in the day before the mk4 came out. as all the mk3 line stuff was top notch..
for the dogbone bushing, i personally think for the average enthusiast a 70D is perfect, and if your a little bit more hard core 75-80. and there really isnt much to chose from between 75-80... most are 85+


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

The BFI, both stage I and stage II, can be bought as the complete, assembled dogbone. They use a factory OEM dogbone mount and put it together with their poly bushings. 
The gist of it being, you don't have to take apart and try to get your factory dogbone back together using a vise or whatever. The kit is already together. You just bolt it in and go. It's OEM so it's no different than just installing the bushings on your own mount.... it's just minus the headache.
To quote from BFI

_Quote »_Save time and stress by installing these preassembled dogbones. These are brand new factory mounts with our Stage 1 dogbones inside. Just unbolt your old factory mount and bolt this one in place. No need to mess with a vice, or worry about disassembling the old mount.









You must be thinking of the VF engineering mount. ECS also makes a complete dogbone but they don't say if they use OEM parts


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

oh thats cool,, i guess if you really want to save time and stress if you do it yourself, 
but i just get someone to install mine, so i figure for the extra price id pay for the mount ,it be installed in my original for the same price.. 
ya i wonder if the ecs one is oem...
i do know there are aftermarket and not up to snuff mounts.. imho thats just not something to gamble with.
dont know if it was the VF engineering stuff, ive actually never had an interest in there stuff nor any experience, always thought it was over priced, and just never bothered.


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## Dropped 20v (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

I was searching and found this. I'm from the mk4 world and just installed the wrd bushings. Got it while they were on sale for 20 bucks. Anyways I'm just searching cause after installing these there was an insane amount of vibration. Once I get going past 1500k it's all good. Is this common? Reason I didn't buy the ecs whole assembly kit was because the dogbone is not oem and let's face it nothing is better than oem (just my .02 so don't bite my head off haha). I could have bought the complete set off of bfi but $20 seemed to good to pass up. IMO was it worth it? Yes. I feel more power to the wheels and no wheel hop and smoother shifts (by this I mean the trany doesn't buck when down shifting). My stock ones looked horrible if interested I can take some pics. The durometer rating is 85 which is rough but I just it's worth the 20. It vibrates like a mo fo but I can tough it up. Car idels ok not to noticable but once you get going under 1500k it vibrates like whoa. Like stated above.


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## TToxic (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: (Dropped 20v)*

What most folks dont understand is that if your stock engine mounts are shot introducing poly on the dog bone will send a hell of a lot more vibration into frame. The reason for this is the dog bone is absorbing more of the work of keeping engine straight, not its overall intended purpose. The engine mounts contribute quite a bit to keeping the torque twist to a minimum. This is why a full 3 pc. VF Eng. kit will be smoother when torqued down properly than a poly only dog bone regardless of durometer. Its important to match all 3 mounts for maximum comfort & performance.


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## Dropped 20v (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: (TToxic)*

not trying to start a pissing match, but replacing the circular bushing is completely unnecessary. or atleast in the mk4 world it is..


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

*Re: (Dropped 20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dropped 20v* »_not trying to start a pissing match, but replacing the circular bushing is completely unnecessary. or atleast in the mk4 world it is..

oh dont worry, we established earlier, that and we all agree it is not necessary, nor is it needed...


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## TToxic (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: (Dropped 20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dropped 20v* »_not trying to start a pissing match, but replacing the circular bushing is completely unnecessary. or atleast in the mk4 world it is..

Did'nt take it as a pissing match and never suggested using round poly bushing on trans end. It cracks due to the excessive play in oem mounts. The reason it does'nt with VF and other performance mounts is because the three match in durometer/stiffness the excessive force is not in turn placed solely on the dog bone.


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## TToxic (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BigBlackTiTTy* »_
oh dont worry, we established earlier, that and we all agree it is not necessary, nor is it needed...









Established what? how to do mounts half assed. It takes more than a $35 bushing kit to do it right. Guess this is why there are more broken engine mounts on the vortex than any other web site.


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## BluHeaven (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (TToxic)*

I searched and the majority of the broken mount threads I found all had OEM bushings. Having had VW mounts in hand... the metal and casting is much weaker than the OEM TT stuff.
tapping on it with my finger it feels like I could snap bits of it off with my bare hand.


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## A4 1.8 Turbo (Feb 28, 2005)

*Re: (BluHeaven)*

boy did I start one heck of a SH** fest by asking this question. all good information tho!


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

*Re: (TToxic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TToxic* »_
Established what? how to do mounts half assed. It takes more than a $35 bushing kit to do it right. Guess this is why there are more broken engine mounts on the vortex than any other web site.









im talking about the round bushing for the dog bone, http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

also, just so everyone knows, there is an oem part for this ,, it is made for volkswagen racing, and the durometer is i think 65, so the same as the energy, ecs ,, and there is an oem part number for it.... to get from europe. though i have no idea what it is... but i did hear its hella expensive. because it comes already installed in a mount. .... just thought id throw that up there.


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## ILLA NOIZ (Jul 2, 2007)

just my .02...
If its your daily driver go with a stage 1 or any poly with the same rating. under 1500 rpm it rattles and shakes like a mofo. Power deliver and response is amazingly different... but for daily commutes it gets annoying.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (TToxic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TToxic* »_Established what? how to do mounts half assed. It takes more than a $35 bushing kit to do it right. Guess this is why there are more broken engine mounts on the vortex than any other web site.









lmao, sorry, it DOESN'T take more than $35 for a dogbone, you're using better bushings in the OEM housing, that's it. If you get a full mount you're paying for what is almost always an OEM dogbone housing that some guy at the shop screwed together (hell, you can see the PN on the BFI dogbone pictured above). A dogbone isn't rocket science, its replacing two pieces of rubber. You can easily/quickly do it at home with a vise simply while you're doing an oil change. The failed mounts you mention were mainly aftermarket motormounts, not the dogbone, and that was because of casting issues (the aluminum housings would crack/break); also, I have not heard a peep about any failing motormounts for at least a year. Obviously all this info doesn't apply to VF mounts but I try to save some $ whenever possible


_Modified by l88m22vette at 5:46 PM 2-16-2010_


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## Dropped 20v (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: (ILLA NOIZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ILLA NOIZ* »_just my .02...
If its your daily driver go with a stage 1 or any poly with the same rating. under 1500 rpm it rattles and shakes like a mofo. Power deliver and response is amazingly different... but for daily commutes it gets annoying. 

I hate to do this but I disagree. Reason is because you can pay the extra what is it like 5 bucks and get the stg2 which is 80d or 85d? Correct me if I'm wrong. And not only that but it will perform much better. Yah the vibration is more noticable but after 300 miles or w.e they will brake in. IMHO I think 85d or anything above 75 for a dd is great. Like I said I'm from the mk4 world and know these cars pretty well. However on a tt it may be a diff story since noone I know owns one. Just throwing in my .02 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TToxic (Nov 15, 2008)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_
lmao, sorry, it DOESN'T take more than $35 for a dogbone, you're using better bushings in the OEM housing, that's it. If you get a full mount you're paying for what is almost always an OEM dogbone housing that some guy at the shop screwed together (hell, you can see the PN on the BFI dogbone pictured above). A dogbone isn't rocket science, its replacing two pieces of rubber. You can easily/quickly do it at home with a vise simply while you're doing an oil change. The failed mounts you mention were mainly aftermarket motormounts, not the dogbone, and that was because of casting issues (the aluminum housings would crack/break); also, I have not heard a peep about any failing motormounts for at least a year. Obviously all this info doesn't apply to VF mounts but I try to save some $ whenever possible

_Modified by l88m22vette at 5:46 PM 2-16-2010_

Of coarse its pissing money away buying a oem dog bone with poly and Ive stated this in the past to others here, some here where mentioning varying degrees of vibration regardless of durometer. Some claim its not bad with 85a some say its horrid, the point was it depends on the condition of engine mounts as to how much vibration will be transferred as well. I never mentioned the dog bone breaking, they simply tear out of the trans end. lmao yea $35 bushings are fine, great I simply attempted to offer a bit of experienced insight as to why the 
different out comes of the same bushings. AND simply doing $35 bushings is an improvement but not 100% proper and will have its after effects.............Thats all never fking again here.


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

*Re: (TToxic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TToxic* »_
Of coarse its pissing money away buying a oem dog bone with poly and Ive stated this in the past to others here, some here where mentioning varying degrees of vibration regardless of durometer. Some claim its not bad with 85a some say its horrid, the point was it depends on the condition of engine mounts as to how much vibration will be transferred as well. I never mentioned the dog bone breaking, they simply tear out of the trans end. lmao yea $35 bushings are fine, great I simply attempted to offer a bit of experienced insight as to why the 
different out comes of the same bushings. AND simply doing $35 bushings is an improvement but not 100% proper and will have its after effects.............Thats all never fking again here.
















wha the....
i also think its a waste of money to buy a brand new dogbone mount, when the one on your car is just fine,, for 35buck bushings. whats wrong with that . what kind of "after effects" are you going to have ?
i mean your going to have after effects with the oem rubber bushings if you dont change them, so if you dont change the other 2 mounts in the engine bay.... the real weak point is the dogbone, is it not ?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*

I only noticed a small increase in vibration in the steering column, and its not while driving, but rather when stopped at a light (and stops when I put my hands on the wheel)
BTW TToxic, I didn't mean anything personal, it sounded like you were saying that buying only the most expensive stuff is the right way to mod a car


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## BigBlackTiTTy (Sep 25, 2009)

im curious to the bfi stage 2 now ... 
ya the most expensive mods sometimes are the worst for your car. i just go by what works.. and sometimes the "less" expensive stuff works better, is cheaper than others because more people have it ,so the cost has come down, and proves it works because lots of people have it.


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## A4 1.8 Turbo (Feb 28, 2005)

*Re: (BigBlackTiTTy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BigBlackTiTTy* »_ya the most expensive mods sometimes are the worst for your car. i just go by what works.. and sometimes the "less" expensive stuff works better, is cheaper than others because more people have it ,so the cost has come down, and proves it works because lots of people have it. 


So true!! GIAC chip - 600 Revo chip - 400, perfect example. Sorry not to bring chip tuning into this, but it seems as though the parts that sell more will eventually level out in price. Simple supply and demand crossover.


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