# Stage I TTRS at the strip on pump gas...



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

With all the Stage III cars hitting the strip figured it was time to see how my RS does on the stage I tune and pump… As I posted I went 12.79 100% stock in a ****ty DA… Today was a big event and they weren’t allowing hot lapping so I made two passes and bailed… 

Car: 2013 Audi TT-RS - 6-speed, 1,150 miles, 1/2 tank of gas, full weight, stock air pressure in the tires

Mods: APR 93 tune, 93 Shell gas

Conditions: 56F, 57% humidity, 30.18 BP or a DA of 1,134 for the first pass and 59F, 49% humidity, 30.18 BP or a DA of 1333 for the second... Good conditions but not great… 

I’ll be honest I was hoping for a 12.3x or better given the conditions and I’m still learning how to launch the car… lol I think I did ok?

Got a nice first clean first pass and the launch felt strong… Sure enough
1.6748 60ft time
5.0614 330ft time
7.8154 1/8 ET
90.45 1/8 MPH
10.1833 1000ft time
12.1629 1/4 ET
114.75 1/4 MPH

Needless to say I was pretty stoked as I didn’t expect to run so well… Who needs DSG by the way

So then I waited about 2 hours and got another pass… Didn’t think I would do as well since it had warmed up a little…
Another nice clean pass but I felt a slight bog on the launch but still knew it was a good pass…
1.7060 60ft time
5.0645 330ft time
7.8008 1/8 ET
90.65 1/8 MPH
10.1509 1000ft time
12.1227 1/4 ET
115.34 1/4 MPH

Overall, very happy with the car and glad I was able to be consistent given it being a 6-speed car… Will do the downpipe soon and return to go 11’s on pump… Here are the slips and 1 video from outside the car… Of course it’s ****ty since it was my brother taping and he didn’t get half the first one, sigh… I also have gopro’s but they are upside down, is there a way to invert them? I’ll play around with them and post if I can fix them…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTm0roUcCnU&feature=youtu.be


----------



## jibbed (Dec 3, 2011)

Nice work. 1.6 60ft times are excellent. Looks like it's getting off the line very cleanly!


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Nice Job Ron!

You beat my Stage1 ET easily...those skills.
My trap was a little higher.


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

jibbed, thanks man! Yeah I am very happy with the 60's and the cars ability to get the power down off the line... Want to take the RPMs a little higher but worried about the stress to the driveline... 

Joneze, thanks bud! I'll have to compare our slips... If memory serves me correct you went 12.2x didn't you? Can you post the slip again please... I can't seem to find it... thanks!


Here are the other vids from yesterday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTmNPO4ySys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BaaPfM6OAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGZvOjX2ms0


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)




----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Best MPH was 116.4 that day. 
I just lack consistency, 3 passes and haven't been back since lol.


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks bud! yeah that is a very nice trap... **** great ET as well... That was tune only or did you have any exhaust mods when you went?


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

if you had dsg you would get 11.5 easy


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

tdi-bart said:


> if you had dsg you would get 11.5 easy


What? No way this car would run 11.5 as it sits with a dsg tranny not even close... So not sure you are making a joke or what? Also, as I have posted before show me a slip of a DSG TTRS stock or modded cutting a 1.6x 60ft time... 

I'll go 11.5 with 100 tune, downpipe, and better DA or come real close... Will see in a few weeks...


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

here you go my friend, 11.3


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

That is a tune only car trapping 122? I highly doubt it... What was the 60ft time? Can you post the slip please? Also, not to nitpick but I don't think that is a certified dragstrip, still impressive time but I doubt it's a tune only car...


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

in the youtube comments he says full decat @ 425hp

its an older vid i followed this guys thread on another forum, basically there were alot of skeptics, maybe he took some weight out or ran race fuel, but i think he denied all those things

enjoy the reading haha he posts this particular vid on page 61 http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=193284

but then again C&D got a 12.1 @ 113mph on a stock dsg when it was in the USA, so thats why i believe 11.5 is doable with only a tune

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIxLjbQ2AMU


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

primetime21 said:


> That is a tune only car trapping 122? I highly doubt it... What was the 60ft time? Can you post the slip please? Also, not to nitpick but I don't think that is a certified dragstrip, still impressive time but I doubt it's a tune only car...


No,

That is a lightened Stage2, race fuel car, and one of the most contested "records" for a stock turbo car around.
IIRC, it was passed off as a simple tune/downpipe pump gas car, but was found later to have missing seats, race fuel etc. 

Still pretty impressive for what it is, low 11's at 122/123 is moving for a stock turbo car.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

primetime21 said:


> Thanks bud! yeah that is a very nice trap... **** great ET as well... That was tune only or did you have any exhaust mods when you went?


I may have had the milltek secondary delete's in place by then, so that's probably another 6-10hp depending on who you ask. Probably makes up for any difference in trap. I can't wait to see what you do with this thing at stage2, 11's for sure. Great driving as always buddy.:thumbup:


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

bart, thanks! I'll read through the thread when I get some time today... I still don't think that was a tune only car, especially with what Shawn commented... Give me a down pipe and race gas and I'll get mid 11's but I doubt I'll get that time... Again, I don't want to sound like a whiner but that isn't a true dragstrip and who knows how they are actually measuring the ET and trap? 

As for the DSG vs manual argument... There is little to no doubt the DSG will shift faster but I still don't think it can cut a 1.67 60ft time stock, like I did, and until someone proves me wrong I'm sticking with that... I also know that it 100% shifts faster but that isn't going to net you more than a tenth or so total in the 1/4... Honestly, I wouldn't have bought this car if it was a DSG as I wanted it in manual since I enjoy rowing the gears and do ok at it... Lastly, just so were on the same page I'm not hating on the DSG since I actually own an S4 with one... It does alright and I have a just a little drag racing experience with it... LOL!

Shawn, thanks for the clarification bud! Yeah, the secondary cat probably doesn't net much so it's a fair comparison... I also looked and your DA the day you ran was similar... I'll be sure to post the slips and vids once I make more passes... Wish APR had program switching but I may still send the ECU back before installing the DP and seeing what I can do with just tune and race gas as I'd like a tune only 11 second pass... Will see...


----------



## milo (Feb 19, 2002)

Nice traps speed:thumbup:


----------



## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

Craig (the owner of the record for stock turbo with 11.3s) didn't use any racing fuel.
The guy just removed the passenger seat and he had the secondary cats removed (primary cat still in place). 
He was constantly attacked by a few because the track was not certified --> I don't see why one should take his car to a "certified track" and spend so much just for a time!

I should pay more than 1K to go to a "certified drag-strip" as it's more than 12 hours of driving away ... and for what?
I drove 300 Km just to get to the organised event where I nailed the 11.2

Not all of us have a whole team behind and unlimited budget.


----------



## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

Imho, the difference of times between a certified track and a non certified one are just minor (maybe ~ 0.05s) --> After all you have one sensor at the beginning and one at the end --> It's not rocket science. Of course those 0.0X seconds are critical when measuring really fast cars but it's not the case here.
If you have a very fast car like a gtr that nails 8.xx seconds or those drag only cars that go into 3s you should go to a certified car.
We are speaking about some TT RS that have no notable results for those outside our "community" so I don't think it's important were you take it as long as it's a drag-strip with sensors.
Btw, APR TT RS stage 3 + racing fuel did 11.3 in US this WE --> don't think you need a "certified track" for this time.


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

bart, OK read a good part of that thread and his post about the 11.37, just so we are clear he had a tune, full decat and some weight removed... He stated no race gas so I'll trust that the case... Mighty impressive trap and ET I'll say... I think I can come close with downpipe and race gas as I won't be removing seats and such... Don't think I can hit that ET/trap on pump but will see... Oh and his 60's are not very impressive to be honest... My 1.67-1.70 60's are better than his 1.74 DSG so as I stated the only advantage is shifts... 

milo, thanks man!

cipsony, If he states he didn't use race fuel, fine I trust that... Sure did p/u some trap speed from his previous best when he trapped 119.7 but whatever... You may want to re-read though as he states a full decat in both threads... Behind a tune that is the best mod for these cars obviously not including a turbo swap... I'm not going to argue about a true dragstrip vs a pbox or airstip as your comments tell me you don't have much experience with either so think what you want... 

Also, at the end of the day I am here to just share my experiences/times/etc. I will probably never have the fastest RS and I only commented about others after bart brought up the stronic times... Funny thing is I cut better 60's in my 4000+ stronic car that makes less power and doesn't have launch control but what do I know about them... lol 

http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=262849&start=60


----------



## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

Craig went a few times to test the car. He improved the times when the temps went down (this is his secret IMHO). You can search his times on the drag-strip website (they were available at one point).
He constantly got very good times and once he found the perfect conditions.


----------



## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

Hey,

My TTRS ran 11.37 @ 122mph at Crail raceway in the UK. See here for the runs on that particular day..

http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/showdrag.php?RID=70&EVDate=2012-02-19

The times just kept coming down and down the more and more I ran, note the 11.3 was the last run of the day. I had attanded about 8 or 9 of these days and my average was around 11.5-11.6, on this particular day, conditions were just perfect, bright, dry and under 10c (50f)

I am still on the top 10 leaderboard, still hanging on in there, I used to be 1st

http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/recordscrail.php?recclass=8

Crail raceway is UK MSA approved to hold drag events so IS a certified track in the UK

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=27&i=6467

My car was running with about 45kg removed, (32kg passenger seat, the rest made up by the rear seat cushion (Not the backrest) and the tools in the boot. Fuel was 99 octane + NF race formula octane booster. Tune was around 360whp (425bhp) which consisted of full decat and tune. Tyres were very worn Michelin PS2.

My time at the dragstrip matched all my vbox plots out on the road and my incar acceleration vids..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMPmP-Zki7I

TTRS 0-60mph = 3.0
TTRS 0-100mph = 7.1

I also had a manual TTRS and the 100 was over a full second off of that time in the low 8's. 60 was in the high 3's. The DSG is that much better. As you have found out, it is difficult to break into the 11's in a manual car but is very easy to do in a DSG car. My car was not a one off either, a similarly tuned APR car earlier this year ran an 11.52, only 15/100 of a second behind my time.

As to the 60ft time, the surface at the drag strip is quite poor but never the less, DSG is restricted to a 3200 launch, 1.74 60ft was pretty good. A lot of time is lost in the changes, at least 3/10 of a second, at least. 1st-2nd is probably the slowest change, perhaps 0-4-0.5 if looked on a vbox chart so although your 1.68 was better than my 1.74, that's primarily because you were launching from higher rpm on a stickier surface but has nothing to do with the outright figures. My 1.74 probably resullted in me getting a 3.2 0-60mph, your 1.68 probably netted you a 0-60 in the 3.8 region.

Another of the car accelerating 0-174mph, again 60/100 in low 3/low7 so it wasn't just a one off drag run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AATsvLPXSM

As said before, the standard car tested by car and driver tested at 3.6 0-60mph and 12.1 1/4m. 11.3 from a modified car running octane booster and some weight out in optimal weather conditions isn't that hard to believe.

Unfortunately I dont own my RS anymore, sold it for more space (F10 M5) I do miss it though, was a monster at the strip for something so 'lightly' tuned


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

MitchyRS said:


> Hey,
> 
> My TTRS ran 11.37 @ 122mph at Crail raceway in the UK. See here for the runs on that particular day..
> 
> ...


Dude, First off awesome times! Now, I really don't want to turn this thread into a pissing contest however, I disagree with some things you are posting... 

Craill is NOT a certified strip period... Argue all you want but it's not recognized as a certified dragstrip... Now that doesn't totally discredit the time but it needs to be considered... 

As for comparing my times to your times you can't be serious? I had at the time a tune, period... What did your car run tune only on pump with no weight reduction? Remember I had no exhaust mods, no intake mods, no weight removal, no higher octane gas, etc. Everyone knows that there is a very healthy gain by removing the primary cats and a slight gain by removing the secondary, again I had stock exhaust! I won't even go into the impact of the fuel... However, to be fair even with those additional mods I don't think I would go 11.3 probably more like 11.5-11.6 What was the DA when you ran? With a slightly better DA my car is in the 11's easily...

As for the 60ft debate, your 1.74 is NOT impressive at all... You started by making an excuse on track prep! Really? Thompson were I run is average at best for prep but these are AWD(be it Haledex) cars so prep is no where near as important as if these were RWD cars... Keep in mind I have a DSG Audi, it's a 2010 B8 S4, with NO launch control and I launch off idle... It weighs over 4K with me in it and it cuts 1.6x 60's all day everyday(I can post over 50 1.6x slips if needed) It's gone a best of 1.622 60ft time... It makes less power than your RS did and weighs a lot more so the 1.74 is SLOW IMO... Maybe if you worked on the technique of how to launch vs depending on the ****ty Audi LC you would understand... 

As for your magazine times! LOL Sorry, I prefer real world owner testing not a magazine who is given a car by a manufacture to test... It holds little to no water in my book...

Again, GREAT time with your car and I'm happy for you... I also recognize how great DSG is and my point all along was about 60ft times which I think is proven by your cars 1.74 with more power/less weight vs my 1.67. 

Have a good one!


----------



## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

primetime21 said:


> Dude, First off awesome times! Now, I really don't want to turn this thread into a pissing contest however, I disagree with some things you are posting...
> 
> Craill is NOT a certified strip period... Argue all you want but it's not recognized as a certified dragstrip... Now that doesn't totally discredit the time but it needs to be considered...
> 
> ...


Thanks 

There's the old saying of only a fool will argue black is white that is coming from your post though. If you check out my thread you will notice a lot of vbox charts, a lot of VCDS logs, a couple of hundred drag strip runs all verified online and quite a few videos too. To say there is not supporting evidence is a tad silly.

Crail is one of 4 certified tracks in the UK (Santapod/York/Shakespeare/Crail) They run RWYB events every couple of weeks and are timed events with more than just a yard stick and a stop watch:laugh: They have legitimate timing gear, beams, christmas trees etc etc just like any other dragstrip you'll find worldwide.

Crail was actually an old world war runway site and is protected by heritage laws which means it cannot easily be modified, so the condition of the strip is pretty poor, (Do your research, have a look at the videos, around the forums, Crail is a tough place to go) It certainly isn't like our main drag strip (Santapod) which has a dedicated sticky launch surface and a long braking area. This is just plain battered and bruised concrete. 

As to your questions. With a tune only, 11.61 @ 118mph. Stage 2 with stock decat (Stock exhaust/intercooler/intake) a little weight out and octane booster in netted me a 0.24 improvement down to 11.37, I added I think 3-4mph to my trap. (Due to increase in PWR but also a cold February morning, the bitterly cold ambient temps helped)

As to 60ft's, nope, 1.74 is pretty good for a stock DSG map, not excellent, but good. I was launching from 3200rpm, not 5000-6000 as you would in a manual. In addition to this, as above, it was a cold February morning with temps below 10c (50f) and launching off a battered broken bit of concrete. I have no doubt in my mind, had I had a stickier launch surface and warmer weather the car would easily have dipped into the 1.6's. (My best launch was infact 1.70 on another day) Also, the lighter a car, the more chance there is of wheel spin (If not specifically setup suspension/tyre wise/), even in a 4wd car, I dont think I ever got the perfect launch without some slip. I have no doubts a heavier S4 would manage a 60ft quicker.

If you have a look at my 0-60 video, the vbox is on display near the end of the video, 60 in 3.0 flat (Which supports the 3.6 C&D managed with a stock car)

Crail is at sea level, literally, it faces the coastline. I launched my DSG car over 250 times mate, dont talk to me about understanding launch control

I ran against a manual TTRS at Crail with similar power and literally obliterated him, the difference was huge, I'm talking him getting a 13sec pass, me a mid 11, the difference is 15-20 car lengths, okay, he was not the greatest driver in the world but that just shows the beauty of DSG on the strip, neither am I.

As for Crail vs our official dragstrip (Santapod) the UK's quickest GTR ran 9.4 @ Crail (I was there) and 2 weeks later ran 8.9 @ Santapod. (Think he's down to around 8.3 at the moment at SP) So there's not a hope in hell, Crail offers any kind of advantage, (other than being in the cold cold north) infact, there's a disadvantage in the launch surface. I am certain had I run my car at SP, I would have cracked an 11.2 no probs. If you know anything about drag racing you will appreciate the truth in 1/10 saved in the 60ft = 2/10 at the other end 

Get your car to how mine was (decat, remove passenger chair and tools from boot) add in NF race formula to up the octane (Note, not tuned for race fuel) and you'll hit 11.7 at 120mph no probs.

Not here to argue, it's just the same old same old where people argue black is white in disbelief. As said in my first post though, there was an APR car similarly tuned (DSG) that run at York raceway and managed 11.52, only 15/100 off mine. I wont bore you with the bull*hit, but I believe the tuning company that I used are second to none, they offer a fully customised tune, tweaking and tweaking and tweaking until 100% is extracted (They are the UK's biggest Audi S/RS tuner) and do not offer an off the shelf generic remap that other tuners pretend to lead the market with. (But that's a whole different discussion)

My car outperformed Nissan GTR's, many of them, before I dropped down the leaderboard, I had about 4-5 GTR's behind me in that top 10, some running stock, but some running Stage 4 tuned also, (check the GTR out just in front of me on the leaderboard (11.366 @ 130.8mph), that's a stage 4 car (So 640bhp/500+whp), evident from his near 131mph exit) Then the GTR behind me with an 11.47 (127mph) that's another tuned GTR (Standard GTR's trap 120-122) So my car was playing with the big boys and brings even more credence to the times. The GTR's should perform a bit better but again that just shows that the strip runs quite slow as that's top ten, had that been top 25, you would see another ten or so GTR's further down that list in the high 11's)

Anyway, all the best with breaking into the 11's, with a 1.6x 60ft, you need to change gear a bit quicker, you should already be there


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

Dude, Wow just wow... It's pretty clear why you brought back a 1+ month old thread, just to talk about how awesome you and your car are and put my times down... Personally, I don't care about you as I had already read about your exploits... Good for you! Not sure why you are so butt hurt by my post? I honestly don't want to keep going back and forth so you can think what you want and hit me with your half hearted insults, I hope it makes you feel better? You really are pretty clueless though... Many of your comments really prove that but two of them really stick out... 1. Crail is NOT and I repeat NOT a certified dragstrip... Please prove me wrong... 2. a tenth off of your 60ft time does NOT equal .2 improvement in ET, this is an AWD car not a RWD car and even in that case it's not 2 to 1, do you believe everything you hear? Now go run off to a Bimmer forum where you belong... Oh and your 60ft times are slow... lol


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

:laugh:

Mitch, you can give up on trying to defend your times with your old car you don't own anymore.


----------



## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

primetime21 said:


> Dude, Wow just wow... It's pretty clear why you brought back a 1+ month old thread, just to talk about how awesome you and your car are and put my times down... Personally, I don't care about you as I had already read about your exploits... Good for you! Not sure why you are so butt hurt by my post? I honestly don't want to keep going back and forth so you can think what you want and hit me with your half hearted insults, I hope it makes you feel better? You really are pretty clueless though... Many of your comments really prove that but two of them really stick out... 1. Crail is NOT and I repeat NOT a certified dragstrip... Please prove me wrong... 2. a tenth off of your 60ft time does NOT equal .2 improvement in ET, this is an AWD car not a RWD car and even in that case it's not 2 to 1, do you believe everything you hear? Now go run off to a Bimmer forum where you belong... Oh and your 60ft times are slow... lol


How on gods earth would you know if Crail was a certified dragstrip or not? What does certified mean, certified to what and to what standard? Are all the strips over your side of the pond 'certified'? If so, certified to what global standard? Crail is a dragstrip, simple as that. Have you been to Scotland and Crail in particular? If not, how is it possible to form this opinion of yours sitting in your armchair 3500 miles away?

Yes, 1/10 saved in the 60ft will give you a 2/10 at the other end, the better the launch, the better the time. Have a look at my times and try your best to disprove this please. Even 4wd cars slip, especially those with haldex, you are aware how haldex works yes?

If 1.74 is crap from a 3200 rpm launch, what is 12.1 from a tuned car? Slow and pathetic, especially the terminal speed  Your manual wouldn't get near a DSG, your tuned manual is about the same as a standard DSG. FACT. 

Erm, think you missed the part where I have a verified 200+ runs, experience comes knowledge and all that  How many drag runs have you done in your RS? 1 or 2?

Come back when you've bettered my time:thumbup:


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

MitchyRS said:


> Come back when you've bettered my time:thumbup:


Bitchy, You really don't know what you are talking about but think you do so it's pointless to try and have a discussion with you... Your statement right there just proves my point... Your only reason for posting was to pump up your ego... You the man!

Hey everyone, Bitchy's TTRS is faster than mine!


----------



## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

primetime21 said:


> Bitchy, You really don't know what you are talking about but think you do so it's pointless to try and have a discussion with you... Your statement right there just proves my point... Your only reason for posting was to pump up your ego... You the man!
> 
> Hey everyone, Bitchy's TTRS is faster than mine!


With all due respect, it's not me arguing black is white here. I'm only defending your arrogant posts on how you know best and how you know that a DSG transmission car would not do an 11.5? Really, what makes you the expert? (It's me that's owned both manual and DSG TTRS varients)

Seems rather strange especially when as stated car and driver managed a 12.1 stock, an APR S2 car in the UK has run an 11.52 and then mine an 11.37 so you dismiss all these just because the don't fit into your way of thinking? Suit yourself but it always makes me laugh when someone will argue for the sake of arguing especially when presented with so much evidence to state otherwise. There are even stage 2 tuned RS3's hitting 11.6

DSG will always be superior for outright acceleration, it's not hard to accept surely? Let me see your vbox shifts, I guarantee you are losing 0.3-0.4secs per shift on average

If your car had DSG I agree with the other guy, you wouldn't be sitting on a 12.1, you would be half a second quicker at 11.6, add on stage 2 tuning, 11.3-11.4 easily. Like I said in my first post, I wish you all the best, no point carrying this nonsense on, we are getting nowhere.


----------



## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

First of all it's a huge difference between 12.12s and 11.37 --> For those who passed through both times they know the difference.
IMHO primetime, your time is decent, nothing spectacular. The 60ft value is more impressive.
You can go to similar setup as Craig (fully decated + octane booster + seat and tools removal) and I bet that you will not drop below 11.9s.
Please don't take it like an offence or something but just like my 2c.


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

cipsony said:


> First of all it's a huge difference between 12.12s and 11.37 --> For those who passed through both times they know the difference.
> IMHO primetime, your time is decent, nothing spectacular. The 60ft value is more impressive.
> You can go to similar setup as Craig (fully decated + octane booster + seat and tools removal) and I bet that you will not drop below 11.9s.
> Please don't take it like an offence or something but just like my 2c.


Thanks and I agree the ET isn't great but the 60 is pretty good, I cut the same 60ft STOCK... So no offense taken and I appreciate your opinion... FYI... I've been back to the same strip and went 12.0 at 117... Do you really think I wouldn't cut more than a tenth with a full decat, retune, race gas, and weight reduction? Sorry, this isn't my first rodeo so to say... I've driven/owned faster cars... I would go 11.5-11.6 easily with the above mods... I'll prove it in due time don't worry, some of us actually back up our talk...


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mitchy, Let's go over this again... I make a post to share my results with the forums... Another member says I would be doing a 11.5 easily if I was DSG, I politely disagree and state why... He then posts your 11.37 as comparison even though you have a full decat, weight reduction, race gas, running at a airstrip that isn't IHRA or NHRA certified, etc. Sorry, that's not an apples to apples comparison... I then state fully that the DSG shifts better and is faster but only by a tenth or two... Thread then dies down until today when you decide to chime in and lecture the forum on you and your cars superiority... You spout off a bunch of BS about the airstrip you run at, how .1 off the 60 is worth .2 on the big end, quote magazine times, tell us how less weight hurts a cars acceleration(still laughing at that one), etc. Basically, you prove little to no real knowledge, lets be honest... 

My whole "argument" all along has been about 60ft times NOT ET, but you try to spin it to be something different to help your ego... Your just mad because I cut a 1.67 60ft time in a STOCK TTRS, I didn't even need a tune to do that... I cut the same 60ft time stock! LOL Your 1.74 60 is pathetic as I could almost guarantee I could beat it with your own car after 2-3 passes... I've done over a tenth better in car with less power, more weight, and a lower RPM launch... Explain that, oh that's right the additional weight helped, again still laughing at that... Clueless you are my friend clueless!


----------



## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

primetime21 said:


> Mitchy, Let's go over this again... I make a post to share my results with the forums... Another member says I would be doing a 11.5 easily if I was DSG, I politely disagree and state why... He then posts your 11.37 as comparison even though you have a full decat, weight reduction, race gas, running at a airstrip that isn't IHRA or NHRA certified, etc. Sorry, that's not an apples to apples comparison... I then state fully that the DSG shifts better and is faster but only by a tenth or two... Thread then dies down until today when you decide to chime in and lecture the forum on you and your cars superiority... You spout off a bunch of BS about the airstrip you run at, how .1 off the 60 is worth .2 on the big end, quote magazine times, tell us how less weight hurts a cars acceleration(still laughing at that one), etc. Basically, you prove little to no real knowledge, lets be honest...
> 
> My whole "argument" all along has been about 60ft times NOT ET, but you try to spin it to be something different to help your ego... Your just mad because I cut a 1.67 60ft time in a STOCK TTRS, I didn't even need a tune to do that... I cut the same 60ft time stock! LOL Your 1.74 60 is pathetic as I could almost guarantee I could beat it with your own car after 2-3 passes... I've done over a tenth better in car with less power, more weight, and a lower RPM launch... Explain that, oh that's right the additional weight helped, again still laughing at that... Clueless you are my friend clueless!


Oh Jesus, we have a comedian here :laugh:

When you resort to mindless name calling to try and get your point across you're on a slippery slope downwards and losing credibility each time you post. Throwing your toys out the pram wont help you here but I shall try and refrain from name calling you back, calling you dumb or stupid or whatever it is you want me to retaliate with, I'm a little more mature than that.

1) DSG will give half a second advantage on the dragstrip. This is FACT based on many comparison runs we have done in Europe, forgive me, but over your side of the pond, you only have the manual car, we have both over here so I would think we would be a little more clued up than you are? If you still want to argue for the sake of arguing and trying to convince everyone black is indeed white, on a typical 1/4m sprint you will accelerate in a manual car, changing gear approximately 3 or 4 times. 4 times if you're breaking 120, 3 times if you are not. If you can flat shift like a pro racing driver (I doubt it) you will complete the shift in approx 0.2-0.25secs. It will then take a further 0.2secs for the car to get back on full boost, in summary you lose around 0.4secs of acceleration, more if you are not a master of flat shift. (Yes I have the vbox plots and graphs to prove this with lateral acceleration plotted and the 0.4+secs loss of acceleration *per gear change*) Now, you have 3 or 4 of them to do in your run so that is over a second loss changing gear. Based on my experience of owning a manual and DSG TTRS along with over 200 drag strip runs along with being an active member on the UK drag strip scene / UK based VAG forums, my opinion is that like for like, a DSG car will perform 0.5secs better on the dragstrip over its manual counterpart, so your 12.1 would be an 11.6 (Just like my car did Stage 1 shock horror) Now 12.1 isn't a bad time for a manual car to be fair, you launch it well *BUT* there's not a hope in hell of you getting down to mid 11's, you may knock a tenth or 2 tenths off with a stage 2 decat but no more. I estimate an 11.8 for you at best, probably at around 118-119 if you remove some weight.

2) IHRA/NHRA approval? I do not live in the US, I live in the UK so why should my local dragstrip be approved by an American drag standard? What makes the US so special that everything must follow path? You're right, none of our drag strips have an American approval (Why would they?) Motorsport in the UK is governed by the MSA.. http://www.msauk.org/custom/asp/home/default.asp To which Crail is 100% approved by for drag racing venue. It is more than just a yard stick and a stop watch, it's a dedicated drag strip venue with proper timing gear and equipment. I could argue that because I'm not running on one of your NHRA approved strips that I am at a disadvantage as the track is not properly looked after nor is it prepped for a sticky launch surface. As you have said, all I could manage was a 1.74 (infact 1.70 is my best) so this shows that the grip at my drag strip is of an inferior standard. Timing equipment is timing equipment, in 2013/14, technology nowadays has accuracy to the thousandth of a second.

3) I stand by the fact that if you improve your 60ft by 1/10 you can expect to see 2/10 at the other end, infact the drag racing world seem to agree with me, try a google on that. You mentioned the fact that a TTRS is 4wd, is it? You sure you know what you're talking about with power delivery in a haldex car? You know, fronts slip, power sent to rear and so on and on, it is definitely not a true 4wd motor, infact isnt it something like an 85/15% torque split front to rear 

4) Weight does not hurt a cars acceleration, what a silly statement and one that I certainly did not make. You will find that I went quicker when weight was removed from the car. What I did say was, if you remove weight from the wrong end of the car so in the case of the TTRS, the rear end, you are likely to lose some grip. When I ran with tools out, boot floor/low fuel load, I found my rear end slipping and squirming a bit more. My 1.74 was with fuel load low and tools and boot out, my 1.70 was full weight. You can of course control this by fitting stiffer springs so the suspension isn't bouncing around so much under a hard launch but then I kept my car modifications simple.

5) I am not interested in 60ft times and never have been, this is a 1/4m based thread, not a 60ft off the line thread? I couldn't care less if you managed a 1.67, a whole three hundredths quicker than my best. What I was able to do was hit a 0-60 in 3.0 flat, can yours do that? 60ft therefore is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things  In addition to this, again you have forgot that there's a lot more to a good launch than just the car, how about weather conditions, temp and condition of tarmac and tyres, the fact that you are comparing a manual vs DSG where a DSG is limited to 3200rpm. You are not limited, you can launch from whatever rpm you choose. Power is irrelevant, Jonny Cocker managed a 1.67 60ft in his TTRS when it had a standard 335bhp, he never bettered this 60ft even with double the power 670bhp. He had to launch from 6000 to get that 1.67 though something that is not possible in a DSG. As to B8 S4, my tuner ran one down the strip standard, managed a 1.69 60ft but ET was 12.9, so he managed a quicker 60ft than me too, shock horror, heavier slower car. 

Evidence that 1/10 = 2/10, read and weep my friend, have a look at 4 back to back runs here.... 




Check out..

Run 971 - 11.56 @ 121mph (1.861 60ft)
Run 987 - 11.37 @ 122mph (1.749 60ft)

So a 0.11 improvement on the 60ft yielded a 0.19 improvement at the big end.

How about comparing..

Run 971 - 11.56 @ 121mph (1.861 60ft)
Run 975 - 11.40 @ 122mph (1.781 60ft)

So a 0.08 improvement on the 60ft = 0.16 at the big end.

These runs were back to back all within 15mins of one another *DIRECT EVIDENCE, THESE ARE NOT MAKE BELIEVE OR THEORY, THEY ARE REAL LIFE FACTS... *

I'm happy for you that your car manages a 1.67 but all that shows is your times should be quicker considering I managed an 11.3 with a 1.74  Imagine I had managed the same 1.67 as your manual car, I would have been well into the 11.2's. 

And just a point to note again, I shall fly over to the states and hand you $1000 if your car manages an 11.5 with just a decat. A decat downpipe will give you a tenth, perhaps 2/10 if you remove some weight and add octane booster but not a hope in hell will you get an 11.5, afterall, there's little improvement to be made in the 60ft (You say your standard car and tuned car do the same 60ft) your gear changes look pretty good, so its only power that will make up some time. Sorry to say but Stage 1 to Stage 2 power increase is pretty negligible, 10-15bhp is worth a tenth. I never used race fuel, I used octane booster, with a map adapted for race fuel and full out weight reduction and some sticky rubber, I still doubt you will do 11.5. The reason being, too much time being lost in the 3-4 gear changes,

Do you have evidence of this timeslip showing 12.0 dead, if so can you back up your mouth and post it up please. Like everything I say, I can back all mine up.

Back to normality, with all due respect I have over 200 drag runs to your one or two in a TTRS, you're looking a tad silly here. If you want to be a grown up and control your temper tantrums, then I am happy to discuss what works and what doesn't, believe me I've tried it all, and have some pretty good advice to offer. If not, and you want to swing that handbag around your permed mullet some more, then so be it, carry on, you're only making yourself look like a prized plum arguing facts.

Have a nice day my friend, try not to get too worked up by my post


----------



## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

I had many debates on the subject: DSG vs Manual and even did a test.
I have a friend with a golf R DSG stage 2 (stock weight). My car is lighter than his with about 150-200 Kg and is more powerful. On a side by side race starting from 60Km/h I absolutely destroy him (it's like him not accelerating at all).

We used the vbox on the same road, starting from the same point in the same day and we overlapped the graphics:
I had one decent attempt (11.6s @ 1/4 mille) while he had several (best one with 12.6s @ 1/4 mille launching from about 5000rpm) --> there is a trick you can do to launch from a higher rev.
I overlapped my graphic with his and the result was quite interesting:
I start a little bit faster (very close to his start) but he passes me by and then I overtake him at around 70Km/h and I go. He passes me even that I start faster because the DSG is somehow slipping the clutch and the first gear is extremely short so that any "hesitation" in the first gear is completely eliminated + I have to change from first to second and I loose about 0.3s.

The DSG not only changes extremely fast but the gears are much shorter compared to the equivalent manual gearbox --> This is the reason why I also believe that a DSG TT RS is about 0.4 ~ 0.6s faster than the equivalent manual on 1/4 mile.

Skippy (Matt Close) went from manual to DSG on the same car and he was amazed by how much he won on acceleration.


----------



## primetime21 (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm not going to go back and forth with you in MY post... I will however post the slip so you at least realize my times are real since you apparently think I'm making it up even with the other slips and vids I posted... Have a good one...


----------

