# A quick D.I.Y. Cam Chain and Tensioner *BPY engines



## theGLIguy (Dec 2, 2011)

*(PICTURES UPDATED) A quick D.I.Y. Cam Chain and Tensioner *BPY engines*

A quick D.I.Y. Cam Chain and Tensioner *BPY engines
This in not the most in depth write up ever but it will help many of you out to see what you are getting into (It's not that hard) just looks it.

I do want to start by saying I am not responsible in anyway for your actions and anything that may happen as a result of you doing this on your own.

The tools you will need are the following:

T40080 - 6 point socket
T10252 - Cam Lock 
T10020 - 2 pin cam wrench (optional)
Ratchets - 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" 
1/2" Breaker Bar
Extensions for all three. 3" for the 1/4" and 6" extractions for the 3/8" and 1/2"
T27 Socket and Screw Driver Bit
10mm Socket
5/8 Spark Plug Socket (optional)
15mm Wrench
M8 Triple square (If you have the banjo style fuel pump)
Pick sets
Screw Drivers, both Standard and Philips head
Safety Glasses would be a good idea too.
Might need a few other little things but this is most of them

Parts you will need: - cost for parts was about $178 plus $100 for the tool kit I bought. The gaskets where all VW brand. The chain was IWIS (same as factory) as pictured and the Tensioner was from INA (same as factory) as pictured. The prices are cheaper from the companies separate compared to buying them straight from VW. 
Timing cover gasket - $9
Valve cover gasket - $17
Exhaust cam adjuster bolt - $4
Timing chain - $31
timing chain tensioner - $59
HPFP cam follower (optional) - crazy if you don't while you already have it apart. - $50 with new bolts and gasket
Hose clamp - to replace factory clamp on the rear pcv hose from valve cover $1
Timing tools if you don't already have them - $100











Step One - Make sure the car is in Neutral so the engine can rotate freely. Remove your intake system (whatever brand you may have) This should be pretty simple. Not going to explain because so many mount differently. Make sure to cover the turbo inlet so you don't drop anything down in it. Paint can lid works pretty well.









Step Two - Remove the battery and battery tray. (Optional) I did this this to make more room to work and I am glad I did, You will want the room to gain access and see the lower bolts on the cam cover and to wiggle the cover off.









Step Three - Now it is time to start disconnecting all the plugs on the top end such as fuel pump connectors, Coil Packs, and N205 Valve. You will want to pull the coil packs out at this time. Also disconnect the vacuum line off the cam cover. If you have an aftermarket heat shield, this will also be a good time to take it out. You will want to disconnect the rear two hoses on the valve cover and all the hoses off the front PCV system.

































Step Four - Time to remove the fuel pump and follower. Now is also a good time to replace it since you already have to remove the old one. This is pretty simple but make sure you have rags on hand as fuel will come out when you drain the system. You will want to unscrew the cap on the bottom right of the pump and push in the tap to release the fuel pressure. This will drain fuel out so have a rag under it. After it is drained, remove the fitting from the pump to gain access to the bolt behind it. You will want to also remove the two fuel lines under the pump as well, I have the 15mm line and the Banjo bolt which is not as bad as everyone says. Put the tripple square in a socket with a 3" extension on a 1/4 drive ratchet and it comes out in less then two minute. Below is a pic showing how to do it. After they are disconnected, You can now take off the 3 bolts holding the fuel pump on and remove it.

































Step Five - Now it is time to remove the Valve cover and Cam Chain cover. You will need lots of rags and the cam cover will leak on the top of the trans. All the bolts here will be T27s. The valve cover is real simple. It's 14 bolts up top and 2 on the left side where the timing belt is. The just wiggle it side to side and it should come right off. You might need to pry at it, If you do, Just be very careful not to crack or break anything. The chain cover it a little bit of a pain to get the lower bolts and this is where you will be glad you removed the battery. There are 3 up top, 2 around the back, 1 under the fuel pump are, and 1 last little sucker under in the center, You will not be able to get it with a T27 socket, You have to have the bit and screwdriver for this guy. He was tucked up in so I couldn't get a good picture. You will also need to remove the 2 bolts shown in the second pic as well as removing the wire loom holder. The third pic is to show the bottom bolt location and how it is surrounded by the case. After all the bolts are removed from the housing you can now take it off, To do this, IT MUST COME STRAIGHT OUT THE SIDE, you might have to bend some of the medal lines slightly to do so but you don't want to break the rings in the housing by bending it around. Just be gentle and careful when doing this and you will be fine.

























Step Six - At this point, the tricky stuff is done. The rest is easy. Now we need to rotate the engine to get the cams lined up to lock them in place. It is (optional) if you want to remove the spark plugs to make this a little easier, I did to release the compression as I rotated the engine. Here is where the 2 pin cam wrench come in, You will want to slip it in the intake cam and rotate the engine around the the notch on each cam face each other, once they do, slide the locking plate in and bolt it in to 7 ft lbs. You can now press the tensioner down and insert the locking pin to hold it down.

















Step Seven - Time to remove the camshaft adjuster bolt and take the chain off. To do this, You need a the T40080 socket and a breaker bar. I had my brother hold the socket square and in while I pulled to break it loose. Don't be afraid to give it some force, they are designed to hold in there tight. Once it is out, You can then just slide the adjuster and chain right off.

























Step Eight - We can now remove the old tensioner, It is held on by 3 T27 bolts and comes right out. After it is out, Clean up the oil passage hole, mine had some build up in the screen on the tensioner. It would explain why it was ticking. 









































The rest is just a matter of reverse bolting everything back up the way it came out. 

















Torque specs are the following All are ft lbs.

Cam adjuster bolt is 15 lbs plus additional 1/8 turn
Tensioner bolt is 7 lbs
Valve cover bolts are 7 lbs.
Cam chain case cover is 7 lbs
hpfp bolts are 7lbs
banjo bolt on fuel pump is 13 lbs
union nut on hpfp is 18 lbs

On a scale of 1-10 on how hard, I would rate a 6. It's not hard so much as how long it takes. You really do need the special tools to get the job done though. If not, You are going to break something. 

Here is the Valve cover pattern to tighten down to 7ft Lbs.










If you need any help, feel I left anything out, or any question, feel free to message me and I will see what I can do to help, add, fix, or change.


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## BeeAlk (Jun 3, 2013)

Bravo! I'll be using this! PMing you for the tools :beer:


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

x2, I need this too. thanks. Mine also has the loud thicking.


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## ratdub (Jan 17, 2005)

mine just started the noise on startup yesterday. thank you for the diy.
how much time do you think I have ?


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

I ran for almost a year before replacing my noisy cam chain and tensioner. But mine only made noise on startup and not every time. Mostly during cold winter mornings.
If you do this yourself I recommend being prepared to drill out the cam bolt like this guy. Despite having the proper poly-drive bit and being carfull I also stripped mine.


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## BlueDevil504 (Jan 19, 2012)

quietA3guy said:


> I recommend being prepared to drill out the cam bolt like this guy. Despite having the proper poly-drive bit and being carfull I also stripped mine.


This happened to me as well. There was no way that cam bolt was coming out with just the poly-drive bit.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Very nice write up. I drove mine for at least a year with it making the sound when at operating temp before I properly diagnosed it. 

You def need the timing tools and poly drive. I was Lucky enough to not have to drilll out that bolt. 

Search for specialty tool program to pick up the tools.


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## LKASurfing (Nov 17, 2014)

Thank you for the great write up. I just got my 06 Passat and had the noise. Just replaced this on Saturday & used your info. Only difference I found was that all the bolts were a T30 not a T27 on my vehicle. New chain & Tensioner & my car does not sound like a diesel any longer!!


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

:thumbup: great writeup- should be Sticky


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## bkpassat (Jun 18, 2012)

Great DIY; I just printed the whole thing. My '08 has been occasionally makes noise on cold start. Stops within a few seconds. Right now, I'm prepared to gamble on getting through to warmer weather in the spring before I do this.

Thanks for a really, really thorough, exceptionally well photo documented DIY. Great job.


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## sethroid (Apr 19, 2012)

Is there a reason why the engine cannot be rotated by turning the crankshaft bolt to align the camshafts? To avoid buying the special tool, T10020.


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## theGLIguy (Dec 2, 2011)

sethroid said:


> Is there a reason why the engine cannot be rotated by turning the crankshaft bolt to align the camshafts? To avoid buying the special tool, T10020.


Not really, you just run the risk of damage to the threads and such. you are better off finding something to fit in the slot where the vacuum pump goes in


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## System Lord (Jul 29, 2015)

Hey whats up guys this is my first post and i just registered with this site.

Well im in the middle of this timing chain replacement for the first time on the fsi. Fyi this is not my first timing belt/chain replacement i actually have 18 years of automotive and diesel work experience. 

So here goes, the exhaust cam on the chain side has 1 visible timing mark [dash] on the outer edge next to the teeth and on the same exhaust cam u have the key way near the base that i have read that some have used as a timing mark is this accurate? Also on the intake cam on the chain side, I only see a dot on the outer edge so im assuming i will use this dot for the timing. Also i have read that you can count 16 rollers on the chain between these markings to confirm the timing but which markings are they referring to? 

I just need someone to show me how these timing marks on the chain side correlate with the timing belt, timing marks since it is obvious to see where the timing marks are on the belt side.

Sorry if i confused some of you guys. Just hope this makes sense to somebody.


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## bryanviper (Nov 14, 2011)

Does anybody have a video of what a bad timing chain sounds like vs a good one? I suspect I may have a similar issue as my car does kinda sound like a diesel however I know these engines are on the loud side.

Thanks


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## redneckG33K (Jul 5, 2014)

At how many KM/Miles have people had to do this?

I'm at 177K km. I just did my timing belt at 166k.


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## redneckG33K (Jul 5, 2014)

When this starts to go, would it be constant? Or somewhat random at first? It's obviously going to tick in time with the engine, but sometimes you'll hear the tick, sometime not... it will come and go at idle?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Any word on what mileage to change this at? I dont see this in the factory maintenance schedule.


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## 2006_A3_2.0T (Jan 11, 2013)

GTI2Slow said:


> Any word on what mileage to change this at? I dont see this in the factory maintenance schedule.


It isn't a maintenance item. They supposedly last forever, but there have been some reported failures. Mine has always made the rattle on cold starts, then it goes away. Just flashed to Stage 2 with 170k miles so gotta do it for peace of mind.


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

Great write up And thanks for contributing dude.


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

Thanks for the write up, I just purchased my first a4 tfsi a few months ago and with the colder weather now in it has started to make the dreaded noise. This has gave me a good way to tackle the job in hand 

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## asalterio (Aug 4, 2004)

*BPY timing issue*

Hey guys
i need to jump in here and hopefully someone can help me. I have a 2006 BPY FSI DSG, bought it as a basket case from the previous owner thinking I would have to do a motor in it. Long story short the PO ran the cam follower into the cam and trashed the cam. Dealer didnt want to warranty it and he went after VW and they just paid off his loan on it. The dealer purchased some used cams and all associated parts in order to get it running. They guy threw it together and could not get the "timing right." So i redid the timing belt and installed a new water pump. I also found a collapsed roller rocker (was sideways?) I was able to loosen the cam girdle and get it straitened out, so no issues there. The car ran but was hard to start and had NO POWER off the line. Once it got going it seems to drive ok...deff under-powered. I knew the cam chain tensioner was bad due to the noise. So i removed the cam chain cover and found the damn tensioner was not even bolted to the head!! Guy was a total hack. Lucky for me no real damage was done, so I bolted the tensioner back onto the head and the noise went away. Car still has no power and engine seems to shake at idle. NO CODES present at this time. When the roller was collapsed I did get a "low boost" code or achieved boost not achieved.

I purchased the cam lock tool, cam thingy hex tool and a new tensioner/chain. I CANNOT get the cams to line up in order to insert the cam lock. I am going to guess that this is why the car has no power...its out if time?! Now since I cannot lock the cams to remove the chain, what do I need to do in order to get this thing timed right? I am in over my head a little, but with the right guidance I think I can save this motor.
Can someone give me detailed instruction on how to proceed. I have all the tools but dont want to rip stuff apart if I dont need to.
THANKS!!!


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## markcm (Jun 19, 2009)

asalterio said:


> Hey guys
> i need to jump in here and hopefully someone can help me. I have a 2006 BPY FSI DSG, bought it as a basket case from the previous owner thinking I would have to do a motor in it. Long story short the PO ran the cam follower into the cam and trashed the cam. Dealer didnt want to warranty it and he went after VW and they just paid off his loan on it. The dealer purchased some used cams and all associated parts in order to get it running. They guy threw it together and could not get the "timing right." So i redid the timing belt and installed a new water pump. I also found a collapsed roller rocker (was sideways?) I was able to loosen the cam girdle and get it straitened out, so no issues there. The car ran but was hard to start and had NO POWER off the line. Once it got going it seems to drive ok...deff under-powered. I knew the cam chain tensioner was bad due to the noise. So i removed the cam chain cover and found the damn tensioner was not even bolted to the head!! Guy was a total hack. Lucky for me no real damage was done, so I bolted the tensioner back onto the head and the noise went away. Car still has no power and engine seems to shake at idle. NO CODES present at this time. When the roller was collapsed I did get a "low boost" code or achieved boost not achieved.
> 
> I purchased the cam lock tool, cam thingy hex tool and a new tensioner/chain. I CANNOT get the cams to line up in order to insert the cam lock. I am going to guess that this is why the car has no power...its out if time?! Now since I cannot lock the cams to remove the chain, what do I need to do in order to get this thing timed right? I am in over my head a little, but with the right guidance I think I can save this motor.
> ...


I'm just getting ready to do this for my first time so my suggestion is based on my understanding after a fair amount of reading...

I would suspect that the cam adjuster is not torqued as aggressively as an original since it has already been apart. Have you tried removing the cam adjuster with a #10 polyDrive? It would seem you need to get this disassembled some how. You might need to customize a cam lock tool, grind it down on the side for the intake so you can lock just the exhaust cam and get that adjuster off the end and get things lined up correctly.


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## asalterio (Aug 4, 2004)

The cam lock tool is designed to fit a properly timed engine, why the heck would you modify the tool?? Its clear mine is out of time but im still unsure how to attack this...someone help


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

I've u tubed this and the official locking tool for the cams is tight in the exhaust cam but the inlet can be 1 out either way, u need to look at the angle the cam profiles point at on number 4 

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## asalterio (Aug 4, 2004)

I dont follow..can you elaborate?


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

The cut out in the inlet camshaft for the locking tool to fit in isn't as good firm fit as the exhaust cam and it can either be advanced or retarded a tooth each way putting the timing out of synch do a search on YouTube, a guy in America does a head job on a 2.o tfsi it's about 35 minutes but tells how he got it wrong and corrected the problem 

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## praneethiowa (Jan 6, 2016)

wondering whether the adjuster bolt was loosen in anti clockwise direction ? or clockwise? mine is really tight and couldn't remove at all. any suggestions?


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

> wondering whether the adjuster bolt was loosen in anti clockwise direction ? or clockwise? mine is really tight and couldn't remove at all. any suggestions?


I might be too late to help you on this but maybe it'll help someone else... The cam adjuster bolt loosens in a counter clockwise direction. That is, if you are standing in front of the car you pull your breaker bar (yes you'll want a breaker bar for this) down/towards you to crack the bolt loose. It is on extremely tight and the longer you've driven your vehicle the tighter it will be. It helps to have someone else putting pressure on the end of your breaker bar with the special polydrive and making sure it is perfectly snug on the bolt. Even with someone helping to do that I had the misfortune of shredding the teeth off my cam adjuster bolt and we had to go get EZ outs at Sears and drill into the cam adjuster bolt and reverse it out which took a good extra hour. If this happens to you be careful you don't drill all the way through the bolt with an EZ out or you'll drill into the cam itself which is obviously not good.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

Anyone try applying heat to the cam to make removal of this bolt easier?


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## bmulder (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks to theGLIguy for his write up! I just performed this service on my B6 Passat this weekend and found your DIY to be very thorough and helpful!

I ran into a couple issues when doing the job, that I thought I'd share in case anyone else has a similar experience:

1. The cam locking tool I bought was a piece of crap. The tiny screws that held the locking posts into the holes in the base plate were garbage and bent as soon as I tried to loosen the cam adjuster bolt! I fixed it by replacing the screws with series 8.8 stainless screws from the hardware store and adding some metal epoxy to the base of both posts. Wish I had a welder, a few good tack welds would have fixed this too. I also used the cam wrench to hold the intake cam in place while breaking loose the adjuster bolt this kept pressure off of my repaired clamp and worked perfectly to remove the bolt!

2. The tensioner was completely obliterated:
















As you can see the top plastic guide snapped in half and most of it was jammed in between the tensioner and the adjuster which left the chain riding on top of the metal piston. No wonder the engine ticked and puttered so badly! 

3. I found that 2 of the 3 cam adjuster seals, on the shaft that is part of the cam chain cover which slides inside the adjuster, had pieces missing. I reassembled everything since I couldn't find a fix for the seals that day. The car runs great but I'm getting a P000A code that seems to point to the broken seal rings. I've found that VW replaced the cam chain cover with a revised part that replaces the brittle plastic rings with metal ones. I have also found that you can buy the metal replacement rings - part number 06f198107a - but am unsure they will work with my old cover.








Seeing as the rings can be purchased for $50, and the new cover is $500, I think I'll try the metal ones before buying a new cover. 

I'll list the tools for sale soon, at a discount since the clamp is repaired. Let me know if anyone else needs them. 


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## markcm (Jun 19, 2009)

Since this is a bit of a tip I picked up while recently doing my cam chain replacement and regarding the cam locking tool, I also posted this at the trade a tool thread. 

So, I just completed this cam chain replacement service on my 2005.5 A4 and I concur about the CTA brand 2878 cam locking tool, total piece of junk. I've seen a few other brands that look similar as well with the tiny little screws on the top of the backing plates holding the dowels in. 

The CTA tool I bought didn't even provide the least amount of resistance, the pegs just peeled out of the backing plate like butter and bent inward. The peg is only set loosely about half way into the backing plate (about 1/4") so all the force is applied to the tiny screws which only had about 3 threads of engagement. I tried longer screws but that made no difference due to the shallow dowel pegs and loose fitment in the backing plate. 

I sent the CTA 2878 back to FCPeuro for a refund along with a strong suggestion to discontinue carrying this crap tool. 

After this tool fail and a few days lost locating a real tool, I got an Assenmacher T10252 which worked flawless. This tool has the pegs pressed all the way and tightly into the backing plate. 

If you don't want to lose time due to poorly designed tools, DO NOT BUY A CTA 2878 cam locking tool, they are garbage. It might be safe to assume the same of other branded lower cost tools which also have the little screw in the top of the dowel holding it in the backing plate; I can only say for sure the CTA is poorly designed. 

A picture is with a million words so here you go:

CTA with dowels collapsed in:









CTA disassembled:









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## mwurman (May 15, 2006)

I'm doing a repair on a friends...reported his engine sounded like marbles..his tensioner was completely destroyed. 











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## bmulder (Oct 11, 2012)

Update on my broken cam adjuster shaft seal rings: 
I just got my order in from vwpartsoutlet.com and the rings are plastic, not metal. This is good news to me because I don't have to worry about compatibility with them replacing my broken plastic ones. I'll follow up again once I have the new rings installed. 

Also I was able to return the CTA cam clamp to Amazon for a full refund! Let me know if anyone needs the cam wrench, 6 point bit, and tensioner pin for cheap!


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## bmulder (Oct 11, 2012)

So I replaced all three rings, installed the cover, buttoned everything up under the hood and it seems to have fixed my CEL. I've driven 300 miles since installation and no problems. 
Let me know if you have any questions about my experience with the repair. 


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## systdow666 (Dec 27, 2013)

SuckSquishBangBlow said:


> Anyone try applying heat to the cam to make removal of this bolt easier?


anyone have a reason not to apply heat ?anything in the adjuster that can be damaged ? did it to mine all seems fine but not a 100% on what exactly is internal to the adjuster


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

Turned out I didn't need heat. I got an assenmacher cam locking tool and #10 polydrive on amazon for $115. You don't need the rest of the tools that come with the Baum Tools kit. Instead of the using the special tool to rotate the intake cam, I rotated the engine into position by turning the poly drive adjuster bolt. 

Once the cam locking tool was in, the adjuster bolt came out easily with a 24" breaker bar. I was concerned having read of people stripping out the adjuster bolt, but in the case of my car, that fear was unfounded.


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

Thanks for this thread. After reading it pushed me to tear in to my wife's car and get the tensioner replaced. No more rattle :beer::thumbup:


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## pesd (Aug 6, 2013)

*In the same boat*

Unfortunately recently my cam follower has failed.
Did not know of this issue until after warranty ended.
The HPFP piston is in tack but slightly warn, cam lobe does not look very scared or damaged.
I know I have follower fragments somewhere internal, optimistically lodged in corners or crevices instead of chewing up my cams and chain?
making a little more noise than typical lately.
In the next few weeks I plan on opening up the valve cover & cam chain cover, inspect for damage, remove any visible fragments, replace tentioner, chain, gaskets and follower (maybe a kit from Europarts)?
Eventually soon I am planning on removing and cleaning any debris from the oil pan.
Anyone who has been though this (unfortunately probably more than should have) I am looking for any insight / advise I should look for while I'm in there.
Also looking for a GOOD cam locking tool or any associated tools I might need That I could rent, borrow or buy cheap.
Thanks, PD


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

I don't have any experience cleaning up after a cam follower failure so I can't gove any particular tips there besides what you've probably already though of doing but I can offer 2 things. 

1) take note of bmulder's situation in this thread which he solved and reported in post #34. I did the cam service without a hitch and then found out a month later that I musta scraped up one of those rings he describes when putting the cover back on because I found that there was a slightly improper amount of tension on the chain. Just enough to cause a little chain rattle at 1200 RPMs. I didn't even get a CEL like he did because just one ring was damage slightly. But having to pull the cover again just for that oversight was annoying so my advice is to get those rings and do them too. Only reason I bring it up is b/c it isn't in the DIY. 

2) I can put you in touch with a good guy with a good set of cam tools. I know they work well because they're the ones I used and sold to him. PM if interested.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

After careful inspection of my old tensioner (105k miles), it appears it was developing small cracks emanating from the hole in the center of the top shoe. Many of the failures I have seen online are caused by the top shoe cracking in half, and mine may have been in the early stages of this condition. One thing that may cause this is the momentary chain slap that occurs on cold starts. Another interesting data point in that the spring inside of my new INA tensioner was about 1/4" longer than the original spring, which may provide more preload on the chain during start up, eliminating the chain slap that could damage the shoe. I have put about 300 miles on the new tensioner and haven't had a single start up chain slap.


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## btrux0611 (Aug 3, 2012)

I have a pretty big problem with this thread. Well it's just not detailed enough. What if you have a broken timing chain. You go to set the new timing chain onto the mark on the intake cam is it supposed to be straight up and down? Like literally, or straight up and down with the angle of the engine which sits back say 20~ degrees. Off to the left a little bit? Because even with the real good cam locking tool it can move a tooth or two to the left or right. And if somebody could tell me how many chain links from the intake cam dot to the exhaust cam dot that would be great? And in this DIY you don't say if you mark the chain when you took it off or really how even put the chain back on a hundred percent correct. You have to get it exactly right. I'm a 5-year experienced technician with Volvo and they're way more complicated I just don't have my facts for this Volkswagen and it wouldn't be that hard.


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## btrux0611 (Aug 3, 2012)

By the looks of your picture, this pic I drew a line in below shows what it looks like should be correct. I just wanted to mark sure.


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## Keden (Feb 1, 2005)

Just wanted to say BIG THANK YOU for the DIY. It has helped me greatly in replacing my cam chain and tensioner over the weekend. :beer:

My tensioner turned out to be in a great shape. The chain, however, had a lot of slack at the bottom. I suppose it simply stretched out after 10 years and was making a lot of noise especially on cold starts. Those noises are gone now.

To echo the previous comments again - *be prepared to drill out the cam adjuster bolt*. Although I had the proper socket, there was no way that bolt was going to come out after 10 years of being in there. This was the biggest pain in the whole job. Be careful not to damage the cam or the adjuster when drilling it out. 

Also, I would recommend *marking the position of the cams* before you take it apart. Just put a few marks on the face of the intake cam sprocket, a cam adjuster and the casing as reference points for when you put everything back together. Although the cams are locked, they still have leeway and will move when you take the adjuster and the chain off. I didn't make the markings and had to count the chain links based on the picture in this DIY, which turned out to be OK, but gave me chills.


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## markcm (Jun 19, 2009)

I'd be very careful with the diagnosis that the "tensioner is fine" and suggest replacing it. The cams are only connected via the chain, when the tensioner is not taunt, the slack (which there will be some) will accumulate on either side depending on the rotation of each cam. 

Bottom line, best replace that tensioner, it probably isn't "fine". 


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## Keden (Feb 1, 2005)

markcm said:


> I'd be very careful with the diagnosis that the "tensioner is fine" and suggest replacing it. The cams are only connected via the chain, when the tensioner is not taunt, the slack (which there will be some) will accumulate on either side depending on the rotation of each cam.
> 
> Bottom line, best replace that tensioner, it probably isn't "fine".
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, I totally agree, it's best to replace it while you're in there in any case, which is what I did. By "fine" meant that it had as much tension in it as the new one, had no visible cracks or damage and was not clogged, unlike some of the other ones that I saw. It's a cheap part anyway, so definitely put a new one in if you have the chain off.


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## Shawndak (May 8, 2016)

*Diy camlock*

I recently started getting a lot of knocking and top end noise. Comparing it to youtube videos it turned out to be the cam chain tensioner. I didn't want to spend a $100 on a cam lock id use once so i decided to build one. I was thinking of welding two bolts to a piece of steel then thought it would be even stronger, cheaper and faster to make it out of galvanized iron pipe. I used 1/4" fittings which comes out to a diameter of .569, right around the size of the cam slots. Cost was about 5 dollars and its strong! Would recommend grease and going slow as you need to get these fittings very tight to make them the 4 inches across. Hope this helps someone.


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## GTIPoopy (Jan 27, 2016)

Thanks for the guide but I have a few questions that were not addressed.
On the back of the camshaft adjuster there is a mark to indicate possibly starting point? Also from this starting point do you need to count any links. I have found a DIY for a 1.8 engine and it has a count of 16 links. Not sure if this applies to the MKV 2.0L


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## btrux0611 (Aug 3, 2012)

Here is a good picture edit below of what the intake cam timing should look like !

Place the cam chain around both gears first of course. leaving the exhaust gear slightly off the cam. . I found that you may need someone( or a 4 ft long bar) to hold the exhaust cam exactly at its timing belt side marking. It tends to fall back a half tooth. and youll need to turn the intake cam with that flat special tool a good tooth clockwise then slide the exhaust cam chain gear onto the cam. Its pretty tricky your first time . end result is the pic im attaching. I just did this job twice this month. pm for and additional information needed..


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## btrux0611 (Aug 3, 2012)

why do i suck so bad at attaching pictures.. anyone want to teach me how? im a mechanic not a computer geek


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## btrux0611 (Aug 3, 2012)

<a href="http://s816.photobucket.com/user/BryanTruxell/media/Mobile%20Uploads/LEGACY%20GT%20DOOR%20OPEN%20PICS/20160426_141550%20cam%20gear%20align%20passat.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz90/BryanTruxell/Mobile%20Uploads/LEGACY%20GT%20DOOR%20OPEN%20PICS/20160426_141550%20cam%20gear%20align%20passat.png" border="0" alt="06 passat cam alignment photo 20160426_141550 cam gear align passat.png"/></a>


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## sethroid (Apr 19, 2012)

btrux0611 said:


> why do i suck so bad at attaching pictures.. anyone want to teach me how? im a mechanic not a computer geek


Here you go:


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## bryanviper (Nov 14, 2011)

Upload it here - http://tinypic.com/



btrux0611 said:


> why do i suck so bad at attaching pictures.. anyone want to teach me how? im a mechanic not a computer geek


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## groundshock (Apr 12, 2013)

In the middle of this job now. I too have the ticking that goes away with the slightest hint of extra throttle. Opened everything up before I actually ordered the parts.

I've found that everything visually looks OK, but that the bottom of the chain has some pretty substantial slack. Definitely would be a noisemaker if it was slapping around. 

Pics of slack:



















Funny thing about it? The chain is actually making hard contact with the lower black bolt that is mounting the tensioner. So my question for the guys that have finished this job - was there slack in the lower portion of your chain? If so, how much?


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

B









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## groundshock (Apr 12, 2013)

Not sure what you're trying to show there.


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

@groundshock just where the inlet camshaft should be when timed up 

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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

I would say you chain is either stretched making the chain slack at the bottom or your tensioner is goosed, either way when your that far in just renew them 

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## groundshock (Apr 12, 2013)

I figured as much. Already have the parts. Just waiting on the polydrive socket. Thanks man.


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

No problem mate, poly drive tool is a must and if your using a cheap cam locking tool weld the posts or it will implode under the pressure when taking vvti unit off 

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## groundshock (Apr 12, 2013)

I bought the Assenmacher/VW unit. Sucks to have to spend 150 on tools to change 100 bucks worth of parts.


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

@groundshock at least you've got the good equipment now and you can do others to get your money back 

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## btrux0611 (Aug 3, 2012)

So couple things. The top quality Assenmacher cam locking tool did end up bending on me after the second job I did this month. 
But I found you can take the exhaust cam out completely. Of course take timing belt side all apart plus and remove the upper cam cover. Then you can install everything again carefully. Put Tensioner in First, compressed and locked down. . Then set Cams in carefully with again wrapped around. I originally marked the chain first. Pics below attached. And I believe it is 19 teeth! From intake cam notch to exhaust back side notch. 19 teeth or half links across the top. 
Pretty tricky but I got it all back together today. 
Another thing. You carefully Put the cam in a vise to get that cam gear bolt loose with the ribe tool.


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

Quick question: can we see the chain and tensioner by just removing this cap with the 5 screws ?


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## low_passat (Sep 11, 2010)

arismkv said:


> Quick question: can we see the chain and tensioner by just removing this cap with the 5 screws ?


No, that's the vacuum pump


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

It's just the end plate for the vacuum pump, there are 3 screws further out that hold the pump onto the chain body









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## groundshock (Apr 12, 2013)

Update on my issue - Chain was definitely sloppy. Was visibly stretched out longer that the replacement, and the plastic guides on top and bottom of the tensioner were very visibly worn. Also, directly above the bolt that was making contact with the chain, there were small chips out of the tensioner slide. 

100% was my idle clicking issue. Good write-up, solid advice. Thanks!


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## groundshock (Apr 12, 2013)

If anyone needs the cam locking tool and the #10 Polydrive socket, LMK. I only plan to do this job once. I'll gladly give someone a fair deal on the Assenmacher/VW tools I have here.


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## swirvbox (May 26, 2016)

I just bought a 2006 8p that I think needs this and the HPFP/follower replacement. I may be able to relieve you of those tools if the price is right. However, I am way over in SC. 

swirv


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## 10001110101 (Aug 7, 2007)

Just tackled this job this morning. A couple tips:

Buy or rent the cam locking tool. I built one from iron pipe, it worked but it was sketchy. 

When the poly bolt breaks loose, it will sound like you broke something. Mine came loose with a loud crack. 

Have something handy to move the cams a bit in case the exhaust cam sprocket doesn't perfectly line up with the dowel pin. 

This took me a solid five hours, but it is quiet as a mouse now. 

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## btrux0611 (Aug 3, 2012)

You could also have the dial pin break off. I had it happen twice. AND I had the assenmacher tool bend. They claim it was the first time they even seen it But they're sending me a new one. 
So for both reasons I had to pull the cams out and I successfully super carefully was able to bolt the cam gear to the cam while looking at it from behind and lining it up. Have to get it 100% perfect or check engine light will come on. Unfortunately I know from experience. Had it a millimeter or two off when I tried bolting it on with cam still on and couldn't really see for sure. 
Pics attached. Also then I had to install the chain then both cams at once. Pulled it off all be it very tricky. Email me if anyone ever needs help. I've done this job 4 times on 4 cars. Twice seen broken chains at 96k or less! On 2006's. Ten years old. 
Also if tool bends you can remove timing belt and the cams( bunch of more work )
[email protected]


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## Majestyk007 (Mar 28, 2016)

*Just finished cam chain, tensioner, hpfp and cam follower*

Bought a used 2008 Passat Komfort 2.0T (BPY) with 123k miles from dealer for about $5,500. After driving for a while (few thousand miles) It started sounding like a diesel engine. After research, found this (among others) website. Decided to spend the $ now before catastrophic failure.

Followed the write up mostly with a few notes.

Parts: (about $370.00)

Cam chain & Tensioner ~ Ebay $29.99 (automartint914) yeah, I know....
Cam chain cover gasket ~ VW Dealership $12.00
Polydrive ~ Ebay $12.08 (autobodynow)
Polybolt ~ VW Dealership $6.00
High pressure fuel pump ~ Autozone $302 - 15% BofA cashback
Camshaft follower ~ Ebay $17.05 (partscontainer)
4 Denso Spark Plugs ~ Amazon $2.81 (Denso (4504) PK20TT Platinum TT Spark Plug, (Pack of 1))
Valve cover gasket ~ Amazon $16.20 (Beck Arnley 036-1741 Engine Valve Cover Gasket)

Removed valve cover. 

Removed hpfp and found camshaft follower had worn through, causing the post on the hpfp to be worn down at an angle, but the camshaft lobe looked OK. (Thank God. Expensive part)

Had to remove heat shield on back of engine to loosen fuel line to get timing chain cover off. Cam chain tensioner guide was broken in two, just sitting there with the tensioner post in direct contact with the timing chain...

Borrowed Assenmacher T10252 from another mechanic. Turned cams just enough to lock it down.

Polybolt on cam adjuster stripped ($%*&#@%R&^@!)  Mechanic had to drill it out. Note: Polytool was tapered but the bolt was not. We cut the taper off the end of the polytool when replaced the polybolt.

Once cam adjuster was off, timing chain and tensioner were replaced without difficulty. Replaced gasket and timing chain cover. Buttoned everything back up.

Replaced hpfp and camshaft follower and reattached. Had to use some additional clamps in place of stock ones.

Replaced spark plugs while in there. (they were pretty bad off)

Total time without drilling polybolt would be 4-5 hours. Risk buying parts from Ebay and Amazon but strapped for cash.

Car sounds so much better now. Smooth and quiet!

Also did the Timing belt and water pump kit ($200ish) earlier at mechanic shop. ($500ish)

Now my $5,500 car is worth about $7,000, but still think it's a deal. Hope it lasts another 100k.

Thanks for the detailed write-up. It was very helpful. Remember, be very careful removing polybolt. It's a bitch...


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## Lunchbox1987 (Aug 14, 2006)

Trying to replace mine as I type. The stupid poly drive bolt stripped out. I started drilling and my drill died. So while I'm waiting for it to charge, any words of advice?

Never mind, slow and steady wins the race. I was able to get it out and not damage anything. Got the car running and no cel but it's not getting road tested until tomorrow


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## mddlfngz (May 26, 2016)

FYI you can relief tension from the cam locking tool by holding the exhaust cam with a big wrench. You will need another person to do this, because the polydrive bolt is so easy to strip. I have found that the easiest way to not strip the bolt is to push the socket firmly towards the exhaust cam with your other hand. This way it ensures that the socket is in the right angle.


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## 0-60Motorsports (Dec 27, 2009)

Thanks to OP for the DIY and thanks to the other members for posting up more info too.


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## BlackDaffy55 (May 27, 2010)

are there any other symptoms of needing to have this part replaced? i have the P2088 code but my car is also over heating at idle, stuttering when i go above 3000 rpms, and my cooling fans arent running, all happened at once...


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Nice write-up! Used it this weekend.

I was so glad when the cam adjuster bolt broke loose without stripping out... then I found that the locating pin on the cam adjuster broke off, like mentioned earlier here. I drilled out the pin and cut off a 5/32" drill bit to a length of 3/8" for a perfect replacement pin.

One tip... when you are breaking loose the cam adjuster bolt, angle the breaker bar a little towards the engine so your hand is in line with the bolt. This will put less side torque on the tool and hopefully not strip the bolt head.


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## mxpx09rawker (Dec 26, 2003)

Thanks for the DIY. I just did this a couple weeks ago. Everything went well except for the fact that after everything was back together I realized I had not used the replacement cam adjuster bolt that came with the kit. I found some reference to the fact that you should replace the bolt. Is it an issue that I re-used the existing bolt? Is it a stretch bolt?


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

mxpx09rawker said:


> Is it a stretch bolt?


I would assume so. Pretty much any bolt that requires a torque and then turning a set amount after the torque will be a stretch bolt.

Did you do the proper torque and then the 1/8 turn? If so, your bolt is a little over-torqued because some of the stretch had previously been used up. There's some risk of the bolt breaking but there's also some risk of doing more damage trying to remove it. If you expect to ever remove the bolt in the future you may want to take it off now and replace it. Personally, I wouldn't bother.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

According to the factory manual it is a trq to yield bolt. Replace it. 


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## mxpx09rawker (Dec 26, 2003)

Thanks for the responses. I'll go ahead and replace the bolt for peace of mind.


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## GTIF (Jun 11, 2016)

mxpx09rawker said:


> Thanks for the responses. I'll go ahead and replace the bolt for peace of mind.


I bought this 2007 GTI Fahrenheit for $2K not running. I found the timing belt had skipped some teeth and replaced it and the belt tensioner to get it running, but it sounded like a diesel so I shut it off and ordered a chain and tensioner. I pulled and cleaned out the oil pan too, finding some bits of tensioner shoe in there.

When I opened it up I could see the tensioner had broken. The cam adjuster bolt would not release with 150 psi on the air impact gun. So after repeated attempts, I torched it with an acetylene torch for about 5 minutes and tried the impact again and it came right out. The bit I used was a T55 Torx. I know they all say not to try a Torx, but it was only $6 and just a little too big around the edges, so I ground down the outside edges just a touch until it fit and it was perfect. Using an impact gun puts way less torque on the cam holder tool, and you can press it in and keep it straight.

I have to pull it again because I had a P0016 "cam/crank incorrect correlation" code and was told it may be off by a tooth, and to advance the intake one tooth. I had marked the chain and sprockets when I removed the old chain and put the new one on the same location, but as others have said, the intake cam leaves a little leeway for misalignment of the tool, (which I also made from stuff I had and it worked fine). 

So I went back to checking the timing belt and found the timing was 180 deg. out. The engine runs better with the belt set correctly, but I think the chain should be back where it was when I started, since I still have the code. I think VW could have done better at making initial timing setup less of a dark art.


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## jlsgli89-03 (Aug 25, 2003)

many thanks for the DIY. Came in handy today, went rather well took about four hours considering the learning curve...next time it will be under three hours. now my car is as quite as a mouse.


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## joelMk4 (Oct 4, 2014)

quietA3guy said:


> I ran for almost a year before replacing my noisy cam chain and tensioner. But mine only made noise on startup and not every time. Mostly during cold winter mornings.
> If you do this yourself I recommend being prepared to drill out the cam bolt like this guy. Despite having the proper poly-drive bit and being carfull I also stripped mine.


Any specific way that you installed that actual chain??


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

If I remember correctly the chain gets installed on the adjuster first then as the adjuster is installed the chain is simultaneously installed on the intake cam sprocket. Note: people have reported that there is enough slack in the chain to install it one tooth off. It's probably a good idea to look at how much slack is on the old chain (top vs. bottom) and match that when installing the new chain. Also when tightening the adjuster bolt the manual recommends counter holding the intake cam. Presumably to minimize the forces applied to the cam lock tool.

2 year update on my car: The cold weather has brought a return of the noise. I think what has happened is that I went too long in between replacing the oil filter and little bits of filter have now clogged the oil passages. When the oil is cold and thick not enough pressure is making its way to the tensioner to remove the chain slack causing the rattling.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

If you don't want to worry about drilling out the exh cam bolt or messing with it at all you can do it the long way...
Take the cage off. 
Just set the car to TDC and mark the belt, take the cage off, get cam align tool, pull timing gear off (easier said than done-may need pressed off), and turn the cam that way. 
It's much longer way, but it's another option, and it's how I did mine (not by choice, by the way)...


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## slawson12 (Aug 22, 2016)

My cam adjuster rolls backwords


I get it in time all the way forward, let go of cam with the cam wrench, and it rolls forwrds towards front of car taking it out of time, I assume my adjuster is bad, it's not locking in to place (pin is going in to cam)

any insight?


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## 0-60Motorsports (Dec 27, 2009)

Done. Thanks again for posting this up.


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## slawson12 (Aug 22, 2016)

0-60Motorsports said:


> Done. Thanks again for posting this up.



did your cam adjuster move?


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## 0-60Motorsports (Dec 27, 2009)

slawson12 said:


> did your cam adjuster move?


Actually I work on the car myself with my techs but I was so busy so I just had them do it as I also had to install an apt intercooler on my R. I'm at 95000km and thought this would be the best time to change all the belts and chain and tensioner etc as wel


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Hey folks,

This isn't entirely related to the cam chain job (which I've already done) it's related to something I became familiar with in the process and I'm wondering if anyone can chime in. The part in question is the vacuum line with the check valve that hooks into the front of the cam chain cover (P/N - 1K0612041CH)... I've noticed that the plastic molded portion at the end of the hose that directly hooks into the cam chain cover is pretty loose. It has probably about a 1/4 inch of play. It doesn't pop out of the cover by any means but the amount of play it has seems odd, combined with the fact that there is quite a bit of gunk around that area which seems to me like dirt getting caught in an oil film so it looks like oil vapor may be escaping out from the cover in this location due to the looseness. 

When I pull the piece forward as far as it will go (1/4 inch forward or so) I can see what might actually be a little vent so, idk, maybe this thing is actually venting some pressure by design and what I'm seeing is normal but I wanted to see if anyone can chime in on this subject.

Thanks in advance!


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## arjay8p (Jan 7, 2017)

*Chain tensioner*



theGLIguy said:


> A quick D.I.Y. Cam Chain and Tensioner *BPY engines
> This in not the most in depth write up ever but it will help many of you out to see what you are getting into (It's not that hard) just looks it.
> 
> I do want to start by saying I am not responsible in anyway for your actions and anything that may happen as a result of you doing this on your own.
> ...










Great post man, however, if im only replacing the chain tensioner, do I still need to take off the head gasket cover, or do I only need to take off the timing cover?


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## slawson12 (Aug 22, 2016)

arjay8p said:


> Great post man, however, if im only replacing the chain tensioner, do I still need to take off the head gasket cover, or do I only need to take off the timing cover?


You could do it without removing the valve cover, but you wouldn't be able to see the lobes of the cam and their alignment, or use the cam alignment tool... so I wouldn't recommend it.


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## slawson12 (Aug 22, 2016)

Also..

Check the exhaust cam sprocket..

Make sure the sprocket doesn't rotate when connected to the cam or it will not stay in time.


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## redneckG33K (Jul 5, 2014)

groundshock said:


> In the middle of this job now. I too have the ticking that goes away with the slightest hint of extra throttle. Opened everything up before I actually ordered the parts.
> 
> I've found that everything visually looks OK, but that the bottom of the chain has some pretty substantial slack. Definitely would be a noisemaker if it was slapping around.
> 
> ...





I have revisited this thread as I had the cam chain cover off this past weekend. I'd like to talk to this point...

My tensioner and chain are pretty new.

My chain also does this, but I believe it is a direct result of rotating the engine with the tool that sticks in the slot in the end of the cam lobe. The tool you're supposed to use for the job. I believe by adding the rotational force to the cam directly pushes the chain slack towards the exhaust cam. 

I thought about this and decided to remove the cam lock because I wasn't actually removing the tensioner or chain anyways this time. I decided to rotate the engine via the crank instead. I used a 1/2" drive 3/4" 12 point socket in the center of the crank pulley. 

While on the ground in front of the car, and my wrench handle hanging down, I pushed towards the back of the car which rotates the engine clockwise. I only had to go 1/8 of a turn. Now, when looking at the cam chain, it was no longer resting on the bolt in the picture above and the chain was tight to the bottom of the tensioner.



So basically I don't think the chain resting on that bolt is anything to worry about and not necessarily an indication of wear or chain stretch, in every case. Again I suspect this is simply a result of rotating the engine via that cam lobe.


I'm not claiming I know better than anyone else. My opinion is based on my observations of my car specifically.


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

I am in the process of doing this on my 2008 Passat with 166K miles. Just bought the car cheap because it wasn't running. HPFP is toast and need to pull the cam chain cover to clean out the debris from the follower and check the chain tensioner and chain. Anyhow, with regards to timing, can't I just put some marks on the timing chain and teeth of each sprocket, remove the chain, transfer the marks to the new chain and reinstall? If the old chain is intact and hasn't jumped a tooth the timing between the intake and exhaust cam is correct. As long as I have the exact same amount of chain links difference between the exhaust and intake came the timing with the new chain will be correct. I don't plan on using the cam locking tool, just going to mark the chain and teeth, hold the intake cam in the slot with a home made tool and remove the adjuster. Just curious if I am missing anything? Do I need to have the exhaust cam locked down or will the chain transfer the torque to the intake cam that I will be holding with my home made tool. Is there any risk of damage to the adjuster? What is the dowel pin that I am reading about on the adjuster and where is it located?


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## slawson12 (Aug 22, 2016)

kjr6306 said:


> I am in the process of doing this on my 2008 Passat with 166K miles. Just bought the car cheap because it wasn't running. HPFP is toast and need to pull the cam chain cover to clean out the debris from the follower and check the chain tensioner and chain. Anyhow, with regards to timing, can't I just put some marks on the timing chain and teeth of each sprocket, remove the chain, transfer the marks to the new chain and reinstall? If the old chain is intact and hasn't jumped a tooth the timing between the intake and exhaust cam is correct. As long as I have the exact same amount of chain links difference between the exhaust and intake came the timing with the new chain will be correct. I don't plan on using the cam locking tool, just going to mark the chain and teeth, hold the intake cam in the slot with a home made tool and remove the adjuster. Just curious if I am missing anything? Do I need to have the exhaust cam locked down or will the chain transfer the torque to the intake cam that I will be holding with my home made tool. Is there any risk of damage to the adjuster? What is the dowel pin that I am reading about on the adjuster and where is it located?


The dowel pin is on the back of the exhaust cam sprocket, and the chain links won't do you any good

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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

Care to elaborate? The links won't do any good for what? Holding the adjuster while removing the bolt or using the marks to make sure the cams are timed correctly?


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## slawson12 (Aug 22, 2016)

kjr6306 said:


> Care to elaborate? The links won't do any good for what? Holding the adjuster while removing the bolt or using the marks to make sure the cams are timed correctly?


If your cam is out of time before taking it off, your marks are useless bud.

Use the service manual available on Volkswagen workshop it will tell you exactly what to do. 

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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

Where does it say in my post that the cams are out of time? My cam chain is intact and the vehicle is currently timed correctly. If I mark the chain and both sprockets precisely and reinstall the new chain in exactly the same place the cams will be timed correctly. YES OR NO?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

kjr6306 said:


> Where does it say in my post that the cams are out of time? My cam chain is intact and the vehicle is currently timed correctly. If I mark the chain and both sprockets precisely and reinstall the new chain in exactly the same place the cams will be timed correctly. YES OR NO?


Well, you stated that you just picked up the car and it doesn't run. Most likely due to HPFP but who knows. I guess he's trying to tell you to start fresh if you're going to be in there. 
Get the cam locking tool, if you take the chain off one of the cams may move slightly and you'll be in trouble. Get it at TDC, lock the tool/cams in place, then just swap the chains (counting links if you want). 
Spin the engine more than once/twice and make sure ALL marks align and voila!


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## redneckG33K (Jul 5, 2014)

nater said:


> Well, you stated that you just picked up the car and it doesn't run. Most likely due to HPFP but who knows. I guess he's trying to tell you to start fresh if you're going to be in there.
> Get the cam locking tool, if you take the chain off one of the cams may move slightly and you'll be in trouble. Get it at TDC, lock the tool/cams in place, then just swap the chains (counting links if you want).
> Spin the engine more than once/twice and make sure ALL marks align and voila!


For what its worth. I have the genuine cam lock tool and there is still a lot more play in the cams than I would have expected. 

I'm no expert here. 

I think the cam lock tool is more of an idiot proof appliance. 

I don't think anyone here will recommend you do it without the tool.

You seem to sound fairly confident.

If it was me and I had a non running car with doubts with respect to the timing of the engine, I would be pulling the timing belt and cam chain and following a best practice guideline for retiming everything.

Just as a heads up, chain slack should be at the top. Chain should be tight underneath.

I could see this being possible to do without the cam lock. .... in theory but I'm definitely not a pro and have never have to fully retime an engine so I'm kinda talking out my ass at this point.

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## redneckG33K (Jul 5, 2014)

redneckG33K said:


> For what its worth. I have the genuine cam lock tool and there is still a lot more play in the cams than I would have expected.
> 
> I'm no expert here.
> 
> ...


Bah. I read but didn't absorb the point where you said the engine is timed correctly. 

So ignore everything I said about retiming. Everything else still stands.

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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Not sure if this vid helps you at all but watch and let me know. 
I just put this engine back together and it runs smooth like a top. 
https://youtu.be/SVitvQBf0ao
I can dig up more pics, I'm sure. 
If you notice, the tensioner is not fully extended at the top, but trust me that changes as you rotate the engine over. 
There is no chain noise, no CEL, nothing. 
Hope it helps. 


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

My whole point to this thread was to try and explain and get reasonable input on the reasoning behind the cam lock tool. This site and forum is made up of DIYer's, not professional mechanics that can afford to purchase specialty tools. If there is a way to accomplish this without the special tools I would like to know and share with rest of the forum. I still believe that you can replace the cam chain without the tool as long as your cams are timed correctly prior to starting the job. 99% of people just read something and never ask why or really think about how something works..... In this case all you have to do is replace the new chain with the exact amount of links between the sprockets as the one removed. Same concept as this timing belt video. around 3:00 mark they mark the belt....

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...=24ffab58759c1b851af166169fcbe444&action=view


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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

@kjr6306 I am a professional mechanic and I've posted information on this thread when it first started, if you don't use the cam locking tool you are going to give yourself a whole heap of trouble, even though the inlet cam moves a tooth out of synch either way with the tool in and yes Mark the cams with a fine scribe to the cam girdle. The exhaust cam adjusters screw is that tight you will break something costing you more money by doing it the bodge job way 

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## redneckG33K (Jul 5, 2014)

peterarries said:


> @kjr6306 I am a professional mechanic and I've posted information on this thread when it first started, if you don't use the cam locking tool you are going to give yourself a whole heap of trouble, even though the inlet cam moves a tooth out of synch either way with the tool in and yes Mark the cams with a fine scribe to the cam girdle. The exhaust cam adjusters screw is that tight you will break something costing you more money by doing it the bodge job way
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


Ah that's a really good point. I doubt you would be able to get that bolt out without the lock in place. 

That bolt is in there. I mean its REALLY in there.


Also i have read posts where people buy a cheap knock off cam lock tool where the bars that slide into the groves are screwed into the base of the lock tool as opposed to being welded in, and the bars bend inwards as the exhaust cam starts rotating as torque is applied to the bolt. I had to use a huge long extension pipe on the end of a breaker bar to break the bolt free. 

On that note, I'd suggest only the genuine socket as well.

This is likely a one time job. I'd suggest sourcing genuine tools for this job. 

If you were going to skip on a tool I would say skip the rotating bar and instead rotate engine via the 12 point bolt on the crank pulley. But maybe someone more knowledgeable than I might chime in with a reason not to do that.

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## peterarries (Sep 13, 2015)

redneckG33K said:


> Ah that's a really good point. I doubt you would be able to get that bolt out without the lock in place.
> 
> That bolt is in there. I mean its REALLY in there.
> 
> ...


I posted about the cheap tool imploding after I purchased 1 and had it welded so it would stand the force of loosening the screw, and yeah only the correct ribe tool can be used to loosen the screw otherwise it will round off and you will end up having to take cam shaft out and drill it out 

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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

redneckG33K said:


> Ah that's a really good point. I doubt you would be able to get that bolt out without the lock in place.
> 
> That bolt is in there. I mean its REALLY in there.


Yup. I dived in and figured that I would rig up something to work and if not, I'd put it back together and get the cam lock tool. I was thinking that there was a hole in the cam girdle aligned with the slot in the cam and I could use some combination of bushings and pins to do the trick but I realized that it wouldn't work once I saw it. I wound up grinding a flat on a pin and using a vise grip to hold it in the cam slot. It was sketchy as hell and I'm lucky I didn't accidentally drive a valve into a piston. I just wish there was a better option than a cheap tool that probably won't work and a tool that will work but is very expensive and you'll only use it once.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

It's a $60 tool. I wouldn't call that "very expensive". What's very expensive is what could go wrong. 


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

nater said:


> It's a $60 tool. I wouldn't call that "very expensive". What's very expensive is what could go wrong.


The $60 one is known to fail... quite easily. The good one is around $120. While "very expensive" may be a bit of an exaggeration, I think that's a bit much to spend on something you are likely to use only once. If I had to do it again I'd probably buy the $60 one and mod it to be much stronger. Or buy the $120 one and sell it after.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

My opinion is different than most I think. $60 or $200...to me the peace of mind is well worth it. As they say, if you wanna play you gotta pay! 
I've seen things go terribly wrong, very quickly. Not just in VW, but across many makes/models. 


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## redneckG33K (Jul 5, 2014)

nater said:


> My opinion is different than most I think. $60 or $200...to me the peace of mind is well worth it. As they say, if you wanna play you gotta pay!
> I've seen things go terribly wrong, very quickly. Not just in VW, but across many makes/models.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd say go oem tool and then ebay it - buyer pays shipping

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## GTIF (Jun 11, 2016)

I tried moving the intake advanced one tooth and put it back together and it ran like crap so I put it back to original position. So then I bought a new cam adjuster and put it in and I'm still getting P0016 even though the car runs great. An expert told me it could be an oil pressure problem, so my next step is to install a test gauge where the oil sender is. If the cam adjuster is not getting 40-75 psi it won't behave correctly and sets the code. Problem could be a worn oil pump or too much play in the balance shafts, reducing pressure to the top end. The car has 207K miles, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's it.

Both times I pulled the cam chain I used only an air impact gun set at 150psi with a modified T-55 bit, and held the intake cam with a small right angle bar (a nail puller). Serious heat with an acetylene torch was required to get the bolt to move. I'm hoping to find the issue with the oil pump so I can clear this code.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

GTIF said:


> I tried moving the intake advanced one tooth and put it back together and it ran like crap so I put it back to original position. So then I bought a new cam adjuster and put it in and I'm still getting P0016 even though the car runs great. An expert told me it could be an oil pressure problem, so my next step is to install a test gauge where the oil sender is. If the cam adjuster is not getting 40-75 psi it won't behave correctly and sets the code. Problem could be a worn oil pump or too much play in the balance shafts, reducing pressure to the top end. The car has 207K miles, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's it.
> 
> Both times I pulled the cam chain I used only an air impact gun set at 150psi with a modified T-55 bit, and held the intake cam with a small right angle bar (a nail puller). Serious heat with an acetylene torch was required to get the bolt to move. I'm hoping to find the issue with the oil pump so I can clear this code.


Unsure exactly what p0016 is but sounds like a cam adjuster oil seal code, no? Did you carefully analyze those orings??


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Yeah if it's an oil pressure issue that just popped up after you replaced the chain/tensioner look into the cam adjuster oil rings as Nater said. If any of them got damaged during the cam chain/tensioner replacement then there's your problem. Make sure you replace with the revised ones if you do need to replace. There's a good thread on here that you'll find if you google search those rings by name. You better hope it isn't the oil pump because they are a PITA to remove, they're very complex (compared to models prior to 2006) and they are VERY expensive units.


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## youguy (Feb 12, 2017)

*still for sale?*



groundshock said:


> If anyone needs the cam locking tool and the #10 Polydrive socket, LMK. I only plan to do this job once. I'll gladly give someone a fair deal on the Assenmacher/VW tools I have here.


Do you still have these tools for sale?


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

I just wanted to post a quick comment for all those saying buy the tool. After quite a bit of research I have discovered that the tool is not a fool proof way to time the cams. There is enough slop in the tool to allow you to be one tooth off. So if you buy the tool, you have the possibility of having to do the job twice along with potentially breaking/stripping the adjuster bolt and possibly breaking the tool. 

I chose to do the job with out purchasing the tool because I had to remove the exhaust cam which required removing the cam cradle anyway. Its a bit longer but much easier and safer. For those of you that say its safer to do it with the tool and spend an extra 60 bucks, think twice.


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

I completed this job with the locking tool about a year ago. With the locking tool in place, the exhaust cam is locked in place and the intake cam has a three tooth range of rotation. This is by design. If you follow the factory service manual, the play on the intake cam is addressed and in fact used to make the job easier.


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## ndccpf1 (Dec 13, 2001)

*What is this part in the cam-chain area ==>*

Inside the cam-chain cover area


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine...amshaft-adjuster-housing-seal-set/06f198107a/


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## ndccpf1 (Dec 13, 2001)

:thumbup:


Cmshaft adjuster housing seal Set
Seals the control valve stud to the adjuster unit


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

I'm having a hard time getting the cam bolt out. I started to drill it out but It's very hard. I broke some drill tips and the top of one Ez out tip. 

Is any easyer way to remove the bolt? 
Any specific bolt extractor kit? 

Please I need some help.. 

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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

FerVR6 said:


> I'm having a hard time getting the cam bolt out. I started to drill it out but It's very hard. I broke some drill tips and the top of one Ez out tip.
> 
> Is any easyer way to remove the bolt?
> Any specific bolt extractor kit?
> ...


Aside from buying better quality bits/EZ outs or softening up the bolt with a torch first I can't think of anything else. I landed myself in the same situation and was able to get it with some basic craftsman EZ outs. It took a lot of patience and you gotta oil the tips and stop drilling periodically let them cool frequently. If you still can't get it you're gonna have to do the job the long way which involes removing the camshaft girdle/cage (the thing that sandwhiched between the head and the valve cover which has like 20-something torx bolts holding it in). There are topics om vortex about it but if you can't get enough info I'll do my best to explain the process. If you wind up going that route make sure you don't cheap out on the sealer used when you resecure the girdle or you'll be doing the job again later and remember the bolts securing the girdle are torque to yield so they need to be replaced. You can get a reusable and significantly stronger set of ARP bolts from integrated engineering for not much more than the cost of the OE bolts so I'd recommend that while you're in there.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

FerVR6 said:


> I'm having a hard time getting the cam bolt out. I started to drill it out but It's very hard. I broke some drill tips and the top of one Ez out tip.
> 
> Is any easyer way to remove the bolt?
> Any specific bolt extractor kit?
> ...


There are a few tricks to drilling into hard steel. Mostly you have to use a lot of pressure, go slow, and use lube (motor oil will work). Do not just rev the drill up and let it spin on the surface or you will quickly dull the drill bit and get nowhere.

On tough bolts like this, an extractor may not work. I usually wind up drilling the hole larger until I'm close to the smaller diameter of the bolt and then it usually comes out easily, but sometimes I will need to grind a slot onto the bolt head and use a screwdriver. Since that bolt is down in a hole you can't do that but you might try to jam something in the hole and turn it (any screwdriver, allen wrench, etc. that's a tight fit).

However... did you break off the ez-out tip and leave it in there? If so, that's possibly hardened tool steel which is a whole other level of drilling. Now you need a carbide tipped drill and more pressure and lube. Possible several carbide tipped drills, as they will wear out quickly no matter what you do. As a former tool & die maker, I gave up on ez-outs a long time ago. Too much trouble and rarely work because they put expansion force are a bolt that's already stuck.


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

Thank you for the input guys.. I got a new set of ez tips. The broken one I was able to take it out, so not problem for that. I will follow your the drilling tips. 

Round 2!

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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

Say goodbye to this MoFo!

Thanks for the tips and advices guys.









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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

FerVR6 said:


> Say goodbye to this MoFo!


:thumbup:


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

Another question, I put the new chain tensor and the chain but seems the chain is not very tense and the tensor is still down after removing the security hook. 

Is this normal? 
Do I need to do something to the chain tensor before bolt in? 

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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Glad you got it, put that bastard with your line-up of "pain in the ass bolts that made you jump and yell when you got them out" if you have one... I know it made it in in my line-up but not at the top!



FerVR6 said:


> Another question, I put the new chain tensor and the chain but seems the chain is not very tense and the tensor is still down after removing the security hook.
> 
> Is this normal?
> Do I need to do something to the chain tensor before bolt in?
> ...


I did not personally run into this issue but I know that some have. There's nothing to do with the tensioner before bolting it in but I am frankly having a brain-fart on what the folks who ran into this issue did. I'm like 95% sure that the answer is somewhere in this thread though so look through the thread and use Ctrl + F for "tensioner" to make it easier to find. That's the only suggestion I have at the moment, my memory isn't what it used to be (and I'm not even that old lol)... if it comes to me in the meantime I'll update you.

ALSO, when you put the valve cover back on DO NOT use RTV! Yes, you read that right... I've lost count of the number of people who insist on using RTV on the valve cover gasket but it is NOT supposed to get RTV and it did not have any from the factory. Though it is a gasket think of it more like an o-ring, all it needs to seal is a light coating of oil and a well prepared/clean surface, so make sure you very carefully clean off the top of the camshaft girdle where the valve cover goes onto. Remove any trace of the old gasket or anything that is caked on there before putting the new valve cover/gasket on. Be extremely careful not to scratch that aluminum or you're possibly screwed as far as getting a good seal. 

I hope I didn't just start a war with somebody by saying don't use any sealer on the gasket... I know that there are some very opinionated people who say otherwise. Some say RTV the whole thing, most say RTV the "half-moon" and the spark plug hole surrounds. That could possibly be safe, and as long as you use a good sealer like this (https://www.amazon.com/Elring-Dirko-Silicone-Gasket-Compound/dp/B0068NKY2C) then that might be fine. But like I said, it gets not sealer from the factory and the one time I've used sealer on mine it leaked a year later. In my experience, dry with a coating of oil is the way to go.


*UPDATE:*

While I have re-used the special valve cover sealing bolts before in a pinch with no issue, they are technically one time use bolts and should technically be replaced. If you aren't replacing them then at least take the torque spec and tightening sequence in the DIY seriously because it is important to promote a complete and uniform seal of the gasket.


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## FerVR6 (Aug 22, 2002)

Thanks everyone for all the opinions and ideas in this DIY. 

I was able to change the chain and chain tensor successfully. The car feels smooth and the engine is very quiet. 


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## DatagatePdx (Mar 22, 2017)

Great write up! Hey guys, I've a simple question..putting the Cam chain cover back on, did you guys have to use any liquid sealant along with the new metal gasket for the cover?

Please advise!

Thank you!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

DatagatePdx said:


> Great write up! Hey guys, I've a simple question..putting the Cam chain cover back on, did you guys have to use any liquid sealant along with the new metal gasket for the cover?
> 
> Please advise!
> 
> Thank you!


I don't think it needs any sealant. I didn't use any. 



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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

nater said:


> I don't think it needs any sealant. I didn't use any.


Technically, correct, per VAG. But it will leak eventually, like mine did and many others. For some reason it has a built in sealant only on one area, not all the way around. :screwy: Of course it leaks from the area without the sealant. So I used a very thin layer of sealant on mine.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

JJ is right, per VAG it does not get sealant (supposedly that blue stuff on the gasket is enough) but it could only benefit from a THIN layer of something good. The valve cover gasket on the other hand does not call for sealant and should NOT get any. Think of that particular gasket (very different from the chain cover gasket) as more like an O-ring. Just use some oil to coat it before putting it on and that's it. I can't tell you how many people have used RTV on that gasket and had leaks within a year. Some will say to use some RTV sparingly on the half-moon portion and spark plug hole portion of the gasket. I'd just stick to no RTV on it. I've had good luck without any and it doesn't get any from the factory and usually stays leak free for yeaaars after that before it ever gets removed for the first time.

This may go without saying but it is of *crucial importance* that you carefully clean the surface that the valve cover gasket seals to on top of the head (or technically the camshaft girdle/cage which sits on top of the head). Do so very gently as any nicks in the aluminum can easily prevent a good seal. You need to remove all old gasket material and anything else baked on there. 

This stuff might be overkill for the cam chain housing gasket but it is very good stuff. About as good as it gets without buying the suuuuper overpriced green VW sealer they call for on metal to metal. https://www.amazon.com/Elring-Dirko-Silicone-Gasket-Compound/dp/B0068NKY2C


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## PumpDiesel (Jun 9, 2017)

*Forgot to mark timing*

Hi,

Im half way trough. But forgot to mark the timing marks on the old chain.. because the DIY didnt tell(You really should update that).
I've tried to google how many links or rollers there should be but theres no answer.


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## PumpDiesel (Jun 9, 2017)

Here are all the answers for my questions


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## ludatrick (Jun 22, 2017)

theGLIguy said:


> A quick D.I.Y. Cam Chain and Tensioner *BPY engines
> This in not the most in depth write up ever but it will help many of you out to see what you are getting into (It's not that hard) just looks it.
> 
> I do want to start by saying I am not responsible in anyway for your actions and anything that may happen as a result of you doing this on your own.
> ...



Ive tried it and I eventually failed, my cams moved now they not on time.
ive been told to rotate my engine to put it on time and TDC so I can adjust the cam, I don't even know where/how to rotate that engine.


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## Grizzeled184 (Dec 2, 2015)

Pictures! Can't see the original pictures. I'm planning on doing thjs job soon on my 2006 passat with 154k miles. But all the stories I'm hearing about the cam adjuster bolt sttipping out is starting to scare me 😲

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## Grizzeled184 (Dec 2, 2015)

Grizzeled184 said:


> Pictures! Can't see the original pictures. I'm planning on doing thjs job soon on my 2006 passat with 154k miles. But all the stories I'm hearing about the cam adjuster bolt sttipping out is starting to scare me 😲
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


So I started this job today. Removed the fuel pump and camshaft follower for HPFP was completely ate up, plus the end of the fuel pump spring plate was ate up too... So I had to drop $300 for a new pump... Its amazing the car had been running like this for so long... The can chain tensioner looks fine. But I'm gonna replace it anyways. Pics below...









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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Grizzeled184 said:


> So I started this job today. Removed the fuel pump and camshaft follower for HPFP was completely ate up, plus the end of the fuel pump spring plate was ate up too... So I had to drop $300 for a new pump... Its amazing the car had been running like this for so long... The can chain tensioner looks fine. But I'm gonna replace it anyways. Pics below...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


It's probably too late since you posted this 2 days ago and might have finished the job but.... you're 06 Passat very well may have the revision A intake came lobe. With how badly your follower and HPFP were chewed up I'd bet you do and I'd bet the intake cam lobe is pretty dinged up where the follower rides the lope during operation. If so, it's only a matter of time before you start having issues again. Aside from a dinged up intake cam lobe popping some codes for fuel system/pressure related issues it can also just accelerate the wear on your follower dangerously, making it unsafe to let the CF go as long as you can usually get away with even on an un-chipped car. If you haven't already finished the job and buttoned everything back up then I'd recommend stopping and looking into replacing the intake cam with the revision B part which is much more reliable. The revision A part was so unreliable that VW replaces it with revision B free under warranty up to 120k miles for cars that develop issues as a result of the revision A inadequacies. The replacement of the camshaft itself requires a few more steps beyond the cam chain and tensioner, including removal of the camshaft girdle/cage (the frame that sits on top of the head and supports the camshafts and the valve cover sits on top of it). It's a decent bit of extra work and you need to clean the head mating surface and use a heavy duty sealer to properly seal the girdle back on when you're done. If you want more info on the process and the different sealer options let me know and I'll go over it but for now I'll leave it go since it could get lengthy. If you google "revision A vs revision B intake cam VWVortex" or something like that there is a good thread with pics showing how to clearly tell the difference. If you already finished the tensioner job then the easiest way to check which revision you have is to just take the vacuum pump off your cam chain cover. It takes like 10 minutes to check.

If you already finished the job and buttoned everything up just take the HPFP and CF out again and look at the front end of the intake cam lobe right in the hole and see how it looks. My guess it is probably pretty rough. Consider yourself lucky that your car didn't grenade with a completely chewed up CF!


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## Grizzeled184 (Dec 2, 2015)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> It's probably too late since you posted this 2 days ago and might have finished the job but.... you're 06 Passat very well may have the revision A intake came lobe. With how badly your follower and HPFP were chewed up I'd bet you do and I'd bet the intake cam lobe is pretty dinged up where the follower rides the lope during operation. If so, it's only a matter of time before you start having issues again. Aside from a dinged up intake cam lobe popping some codes for fuel system/pressure related issues it can also just accelerate the wear on your follower dangerously, making it unsafe to let the CF go as long as you can usually get away with even on an un-chipped car. If you haven't already finished the job and buttoned everything back up then I'd recommend stopping and looking into replacing the intake cam with the revision B part which is much more reliable. The revision A part was so unreliable that VW replaces it with revision B free under warranty up to 120k miles for cars that develop issues as a result of the revision A inadequacies. The replacement of the camshaft itself requires a few more steps beyond the cam chain and tensioner, including removal of the camshaft girdle/cage (the frame that sits on top of the head and supports the camshafts and the valve cover sits on top of it). It's a decent bit of extra work and you need to clean the head mating surface and use a heavy duty sealer to properly seal the girdle back on when you're done. If you want more info on the process and the different sealer options let me know and I'll go over it but for now I'll leave it go since it could get lengthy. If you google "revision A vs revision B intake cam VWVortex" or something like that there is a good thread with pics showing how to clearly tell the difference. If you already finished the tensioner job then the easiest way to check which revision you have is to just take the vacuum pump off your cam chain cover. It takes like 10 minutes to check.
> 
> If you already finished the job and buttoned everything up just take the HPFP and CF out again and look at the front end of the intake cam lobe right in the hole and see how it looks. My guess it is probably pretty rough. Consider yourself lucky that your car didn't grenade with a completely chewed up CF!


yea thanks for the heads up. Surprisingly no CELs! I haven't had any for couple of months since I replaced the N80 valve for very small leak detected in EVAP system... The intake CAM lob didnt look too bad. You can see some wear marks a little bit of scoring but over all it looked ok. I'll look into that intake CAM rev thing you mentioned. Thanks again. Im still mystified how the car even ran with the end of the HPFP all ate up like that...

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## theGLIguy (Dec 2, 2011)

Grizzeled184 said:


> Pictures! Can't see the original pictures. I'm planning on doing thjs job soon on my 2006 passat with 154k miles. But all the stories I'm hearing about the cam adjuster bolt sttipping out is starting to scare me 😲
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


Sorry about that. I have been gone for along time. Photobucket wants $300 a year to post the pictures to "3rd Party" sites


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

theGLIguy said:


> Sorry about that. I have been gone for along time. Photobucket wants $300 a year to post the pictures to "3rd Party" sites


Could you copy the pics over to http://imgur.com/ and repost the links?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

FerVR6 said:


> Say goodbye to this MoFo!
> 
> Thanks for the tips and advices guys. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/a2aa6cdde38ab733abe7cda2afe23915.jpg
> 
> ...


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## batman412 (Aug 6, 2017)

*Pics?*

Is there any way to show the pics from this project?


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Barn01 said:


> If you had to pull that bolt again, is there anything you would do differently from the start?
> 
> I want to do this job soon and I'm pretty tempted to try pushing hard on an impact gun with a torch on the back side.
> 
> NOTE: If anyone wants to sell their cam lock tool PM me.



Mine stripped when I did the job a couple years ago. My thoughts are that there is no middle ground on this thing. You either take a very careful and methodical approach or you GO BIG and hope you crack it free before or at least as it shears so that you can get it out the rest of the way with little issue. The former approach would be using progressively larger ratchets to carefully test with brief tugs to try to get an idea of how tight it is in there and how much latitude you have. At the end of the day though unless you're really careful and lucky I doubt this will work because they are usually in there quite tight if they have never been changed. It may honestly be better to just do the go big approach and mash an impact gun on it and pray that you zip it lose before or, at least, as is the bolt head teeth shear apart. That very well may work. As for the torch, not so sure that's a good idea. Sure you can get certain torches back in there enough (remember the bolt is a few inches into a recess in the exhaust cam lobe) but either way there's oil in there.





> Is there any way to show the pics from this project?


For the pics to show up again the guy who wrote the DIY would need to transfer them to a different free image hosting service. Photobucket is what was used and they must have changed their policy recently so now you can't hose images free or something. He'd have to pay them now. It's hilarious that Photobucket has done this because their service and website is complete **** anyway, I don't know how they got it in their head that people would wanna pay for it... I could barely stand using their website for free as it was.

Anyway, unless he hosts them somewhere else there will be no pics. If I can help in anyway feel free to ask on here or PM me. I'm not gonna do a DIY on it but I can answer any questions. If time allows, the best I could do is a short video showing (but not actually doing) what needs to be removed to get at the cam chain/tensioner but that would only really help up to a point since I can't show what is going on inside the cover.


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## GreasyGinger (Aug 14, 2017)

looking for some advice here

just in the middle of putting an 07 A4 back together, had a timing belt break, so a couple exhaust valves later and its back up and running. i had the cam chain skip on me and the car stalled out. lucky enough, the leakdown test was good, so i ordered a new OEM chain and tensioner. the install was fairley straight forward and the car starts and runs again.

although now the chain is noisier than the old stretched out chain. has anyone experienced this before? have i done something wrong that could cause this? my next step is basically to check oil pressure to make sure the tensioner is even getting what it needs. is there a gasket that goes behind the tensioner that i missed?

dont have any maintenance history on this car either, but from some of the things ive found (leaking coolant flange, centering section of oil filter cap missing, both fixed now) the maintenance was not top notch.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

GreasyGinger said:


> looking for some advice here
> 
> just in the middle of putting an 07 A4 back together, had a timing belt break, so a couple exhaust valves later and its back up and running. i had the cam chain skip on me and the car stalled out. lucky enough, the leakdown test was good, so i ordered a new OEM chain and tensioner. the install was fairley straight forward and the car starts and runs again.
> 
> ...


Checking oil pressure is probably the best next step short of tearing everything apart and rechecking. Assuming you are pretty confident that you did everything properly from a timing and installation standpoint, that there are no problems there, and assuming your parts were good, then yeah I'd recommend checking oil pressure before digging back into the cover. At normal operating temperature readings should range 17-30psi at idle and 39-65psi at 2K RPM rev. Keep in mind it is possible that you get a good oil pressure reading from the sender location but that you still have improper oil pressure to operate the chain properly within the cam chain cover. This is because the oil pressure within the cam chain cover is variable and controlled, in part, by a series of 3 rings on the internal portion of the cover that you may recall goes in the middle of the exhaust cam lobe when re-installing the cover. If you don't handle the cover very gingerly for removal AND re-installation - as well as being sure to pull the cover STRAIGHT outward until those rings are clear - or if for any other reason those fragile rings were damaged at all then the dynamic oil pressure adjustments within the cover will not be correct.


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## theGLIguy (Dec 2, 2011)

Grizzeled184 said:


> Pictures! Can't see the original pictures. I'm planning on doing thjs job soon on my 2006 passat with 154k miles. But all the stories I'm hearing about the cam adjuster bolt sttipping out is starting to scare me 😲
> 
> Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk


I have Tried. Image shack has blocked all images from even me. I cant find the original images. I will post them as soon as I come across them


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## GreasyGinger (Aug 14, 2017)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> Checking oil pressure is probably the best next step short of tearing everything apart and rechecking. Assuming you are pretty confident that you did everything properly from a timing and installation standpoint, that there are no problems there, and assuming your parts were good, then yeah I'd recommend checking oil pressure before digging back into the cover. At normal operating temperature readings should range 17-30psi at idle and 39-65psi at 2K RPM rev. Keep in mind it is possible that you get a good oil pressure reading from the sender location but that you still have improper oil pressure to operate the chain properly within the cam chain cover. This is because the oil pressure within the cam chain cover is variable and controlled, in part, by a series of 3 rings on the internal portion of the cover that you may recall goes in the middle of the exhaust cam lobe when re-installing the cover. If you don't handle the cover very gingerly for removal AND re-installation - as well as being sure to pull the cover STRAIGHT outward until those rings are clear - or if for any other reason those fragile rings were damaged at all then the dynamic oil pressure adjustments within the cover will not be correct.


now would those rings be the cause of chain noise? it was my understanding that if those rings were damaged you would just have issues with VVT codes (P000A is the code i think, it was covered in this thread early on.) i'm waiting for the snap-on dealer to show up do get the proper adapter for my oil pressure gauge before i can get a proper test in.

i did tear everything down again since posting and blew out the oil feed oils for the tensioner, i got a good stream of air out through the cam journals on both sides aswell as the through the lifter bores. got a new cam follower coming down today, will see if that might be the cause of it. grabbing at straws at this point as my 2 week project is going on 2 months now lol


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

GreasyGinger said:


> now would those rings be the cause of chain noise? it was my understanding that if those rings were damaged you would just have issues with VVT codes (P000A is the code i think, it was covered in this thread early on.) i'm waiting for the snap-on dealer to show up do get the proper adapter for my oil pressure gauge before i can get a proper test in.
> 
> i did tear everything down again since posting and blew out the oil feed oils for the tensioner, i got a good stream of air out through the cam journals on both sides aswell as the through the lifter bores. got a new cam follower coming down today, will see if that might be the cause of it. grabbing at straws at this point as my 2 week project is going on 2 months now lol


I had zero noise when I found the damaged rings in my cover, just the code. Replacing the rings fixed it. 
Conceivably is assume, though, that since they control oil pressure that it could cause noise depending on the severity of oil pressure loss in the side cover.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

> now would those rings be the cause of chain noise? it was my understanding that if those rings were damaged you would just have issues with VVT codes (P000A is the code i think, it was covered in this thread early on.) i'm waiting for the snap-on dealer to show up do get the proper adapter for my oil pressure gauge before i can get a proper test in.
> 
> i did tear everything down again since posting and blew out the oil feed oils for the tensioner, i got a good stream of air out through the cam journals on both sides aswell as the through the lifter bores. got a new cam follower coming down today, will see if that might be the cause of it. grabbing at straws at this point as my 2 week project is going on 2 months now lol





> Conceivably is assume, though, that since they control oil pressure that it could cause noise depending on the severity of oil pressure loss in the side cover.


Nater is correct regarding how damaged rings and thus an oil pressure issue inside the cover would contribute to additional chain noise. However, I will agree that if you had an issue that bad it would probably be throwing the associated code you've read about. The fact that it is not throwing said code makes it less likely. I'm at a loss for other explanations though, assuming you did, in fact, do everything correctly with the installation and that your new chain is definitely and OE part and does not have too much slack already for some reason (also unlikely).


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## Grizzeled184 (Dec 2, 2015)

Today I replaced the N205 valve, Cam adjuster valve. I've been getting intermittent P000A no other codes... The factory manual says the valve should measure between 5 and 8 ohms on the connector. Mine was 12.3ohms. Also some oil seepage from inside the connector. I figured its probably a problem. Drove it hard and heavy on the way to work tonight no CEL's yet... Fingers crossed. Didn't recall seeing any broken seals on the CAM chain cover when I did the tensioner a couple of months ago. So lets see how it goes...

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## Audilove88 (Sep 26, 2016)

Grizzeled184 said:


> Today I replaced the N205 valve, Cam adjuster valve. I've been getting intermittent P000A no other codes... The factory manual says the valve should measure between 5 and 8 ohms on the connector. Mine was 12.3ohms. Also some oil seepage from inside the connector. I figured its probably a problem. Drove it hard and heavy on the way to work tonight no CEL's yet... Fingers crossed. Didn't recall seeing any broken seals on the CAM chain cover when I did the tensioner a couple of months ago. So lets see how it goes...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Let us know  just dropped off my car for this same code after tensioner and chain repair, also a low groan rumble sound at idle and low revs. 06 a3 2.0t 140k, I had the follower done with the tensioner. Cam lobe is good one mine.


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## Grizzeled184 (Dec 2, 2015)

Its been three days no CEL's. It had gotten worse and that it would come back after 10-15 of driving. So I would like to say its fixed... Next oil change Im going to pull my oil pan. Its never been done before and I read in this thread low oil pressure can cause this too. Just want to make sure the screen on the pickup tube is clear.

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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Audilove88 said:


> Let us know  just dropped off my car for this same code after tensioner and chain repair, also a low groan rumble sound at idle and low revs. 06 a3 2.0t 140k, I had the follower done with the tensioner. Cam lobe is good one mine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I think it is more likely theh jacked up the cam adjuster rings during the chain/tensioner job but since replacing thos would require getting the cover back of and you'd be stuck with the bill for that if the rings weren't the cause I would just have them do the N205 first since it is quicker and thus cheaper labor. If that doesn't do it the. It is def the rings and they should do it for free since they messed them up so then you're only stuck paying for the N205 (which they also probably screwed up a ring on if it is suddenly acting up so they may cover that too). 

Whn I suggested the rings first on the other thread I thought you were doing the work yourself. If a shop is doing it that changes things and I'd do it as described above.


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## Audilove88 (Sep 26, 2016)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> I think it is more likely theh jacked up the cam adjuster rings during the chain/tensioner job but since replacing thos would require getting the cover back of and you'd be stuck with the bill for that if the rings weren't the cause I would just have them do the N205 first since it is quicker and thus cheaper labor. If that doesn't do it the. It is def the rings and they should do it for free since they messed them up so then you're only stuck paying for the N205 (which they also probably screwed up a ring on if it is suddenly acting up so they may cover that too).
> 
> Whn I suggested the rings first on the other thread I thought you were doing the work yourself. If a shop is doing it that changes things and I'd do it as described above.


Gotcha, the shop just called and said it's passing all the vag tests for the cam timing, he said if anything to try the n205 first. So we'll see. Also had some cracked vacuum hoses. 


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Audilove88 said:


> Gotcha, the shop just called and said it's passing all the vag tests for the cam timing, he said if anything to try the n205 first. So we'll see. Also had some cracked vacuum hoses.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Timing isn't a concern. It's oil pressure within the cover and the extra noise you are hearing is due to low oil pressure/delivery because of faulty rings or N205. If they spent time doing tests for timing they just wasted your money. But it's too late for that now. I agree, next course of action is to replace N205 and see what happens. I still think you had better talk to them about covering the labor at least because the chances that your N205 (or the 3 adjuster rings if it winds up being that) just happened to crap out right after they did the cam chain/tensioner job is seriously doubtful. It likely had to do with poor handling of the parts and/or rushing the job on their part.


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## Audilove88 (Sep 26, 2016)

The noise is my alt over running pulley , my n205 valve may be bad. But I'll wait for another code. I had a lean code so the two vacuum hoses had to be the reason.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Audilove88 said:


> The noise is my alt over running pulley , my n205 valve may be bad. But I'll wait for another code. I had a lean code so the two vacuum hoses had to be the reason.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



I thought you said you also had a noise coming from the cam chain housing? Are you saying you have no odd noises now and the only thing that is up is the P000A?


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## Audilove88 (Sep 26, 2016)

May have confused me wth op, I just chimed in because I had my chain and tensioner done recently at 139k


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Audilove88 said:


> *The noise is my alt over running pulley* , my n205 valve may be bad. But I'll wait for another code. I had a lean code so the two vacuum hoses had to be the reason.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



What do you mean by alternator over running pulley? What fixes are you currently looking at?
Did changing your tensioner make your start and idle quieter?


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## Audilove88 (Sep 26, 2016)

Literally the pulley on the alternator


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

I now get to add myself to the Cam Chain Tensioner Replacement Club
I did the job yesterday. Took me 8hrs by myself but I had a couple of meal breaks in there 

So Audi claims this is a lifetime part .... Ummm right! When your car sounds like a diesel, get this done!










Here's what I can add to this thread and write up ... BTW a huge thanks to the OP on getting this DIY started and written with pics. It helped a LOT!

1) I strongly advise taking the 5mins more it takes to remove the battery box. You'll be glad you did to remove the bottom bolt on the timing chain cover.
2) Have yourself a T30 allen key. It's so thin that was the only thing I could fit to remove the bottom bolt under the timing chain cover. You might get away with a bit and 1/4 socket but you'll be blind
3) You don't NEED to remove the two rear breather hoses on the back of the valve cover. Mine were not coming off so I left them and I was able to lift the cover more than enough to slide in the cam lock tool.
4) Remove the outter small cover at the top of the timing belt. It's a 90deg turn plastic screw and gives you access to see the timing marks with an inspection mirror.
5) When pulling the timing chain cover, it can be really hard to get it off but try to resist prying it. Just get a good grip and wiggle like crazy with strong force. My adjuster ring is the type with the groves as you can see in the pics. Also the seals on my N205 valve had the metal rings that sit very loose and expanded compared to the plastic replacement rings. What I've determined is that the rings are NOT interchangeable. If you have metal rings then you should be using them with a grooved adjuster. My neighbor has the smooth sleeved adjuster and his N205 has the plastic rings. So that leads me to saying that if you have the grooved sleeve then it is likely going to be MUCH harder to get that cover off. The rings are getting caught on the groves but keep wiggling it and it does work it's way off (prying may snap it)










6) After the cam lock tool is in and you're on the timing belt mark, there is a little peen mark at the top of the intake cam, it should line up with the inner link of the chain. Mark that along with the housing behind it. Count the links until you reach the point were the chain passes behind the Adj ring. Mark the adjuster ring and remember the number associated with that mark. You can turn the intake cam back a little if you like and you'll notice that the cam adjuster moves as well. Now mark the cam adjuster again where it meets the chain and count the links back to the intake cam peen mark. For me it was 9 and 10 links respective to the two marks I made on the adjuster. This is important because when you put everything back together, you won't know what position your adjuster is in and this is the main reason people put it back together one tooth off, even when the intake cam appears to be lined up. This way it doesn't matter where the adjuster is as you manipulate it to get it back on the cam face. Once you are in the notch you know that you either need 9 or 10 links to the peen depending on which line is showing as the chain goes behind it. I started the new chain with the copper link as #1.


















7) Before pulling the Adj bolt I suggest you try flushing it out with brake cleaner several times then put in the bit and pull on it just a bit to get the adjuster to move and squirt out more oil trapped inside. Then clean it out again and clean the tool with brake cleaner. Once you have everything clean and it's done pissing out oil then put in the poly drive socket and tap it modestly firm a few times with a hammer. Now go ahead and put your breaker bar on it and you'll want to grab under the adjuster with your fingers while holding the bit centered on the bolt with your palm. Pull on the bar easy at first then release and go a bit harder, Repeat until you crack the surface tension. Once you crack it, it should just come out finger tight. (Good luck)










8) When putting your chain cover housing back on make sure you have both locating rings inserted and tapped into the cover. As you're putting the housing on you'll likely need to wiggle it (just like when you took it off) to get the 3 seals to seat into the adjuster sleeve (if groved). You'll likely also have to position the intake cam sensor so that it lines up with the notch on the intake cam. I had to do a little tapping with a screw driver back and forth through the cam follower hole.
9) Any time you need to put on a bolt that you can't reach with your hand (like the center bolt under the cover) then put a piece of tape over the end of the bit and jam it into the head. That way it holds the bolt as you guide it in.
10) If you have a banjo bolt and you are having trouble threading it. Try loosening off the HPFP to seat the flange and start the bolt.










That's all I can think of for now.
Here are a few more pics of how bad my tensioner was. I'm lucky it didn't fail and blow my engine!!!


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## Grizzeled184 (Dec 2, 2015)

Barn01 said:


> I now get to add myself to the Cam Chain Tensioner Replacement Club
> I did the job yesterday. Took me 8hrs by myself but I had a couple of meal breaks in there
> 
> So Audi claims this is a lifetime part .... Ummm right! When your car sounds like a diesel, get this done!
> ...


Good write up. How many miles on your car? I just did mine a few months ago my tensioner was is pretty good shape, nothing broken on it... The only thing with mine was it felt a little stiff when you pushed the top of the chain down. But thats probably a good thing...

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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Grizzeled184 said:


> Good write up. How many miles on your car? I just did mine a few months ago my tensioner was is pretty good shape, nothing broken on it... The only thing with mine was it felt a little stiff when you pushed the top of the chain down. But thats probably a good thing...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


286k kms


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Holy crap Barn, that tensioner!!!... It's a damn good thing you did that now. Your head would have probably been grenaded because of that tensioner like the next day you drove it. Also your car must have sounded like a fkin tractor with how bad that thing was.

So you managed to get the cam adjuster bolt without it shearing, that's impressive. Good for you!


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Barn01 said:


> 286k kms


Hey! Speak Americano... 177k MILES! 

Mine had just started to crack at 162k miles:


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> Holy crap Barn, that tensioner!!!... It's a damn good thing you did that now. Your head would have probably been grenaded because of that tensioner like the next day you drove it. Also your car must have sounded like a fkin tractor with how bad that thing was.
> 
> So you managed to get the cam adjuster bolt without it shearing, that's impressive. Good for you!


It was so noisy that my neighbor was annoyed when I started it to leave for work in the morning. It was also to the point were it was hard to order food at drive thru haha.
This past week I wouldn't allow the car to move more than a few km's for fear of blowing the engine. I knew it must have been bad but I didn't think it was THIS bad. Lucky indeed!

I was blown away at how quiet it was after the change. I was smiling ear to ear and I don't think it's ever sounded this good 

By the way that poly drive design is DUMB. The bit only goes in a couple mm. No wonder people are stripping it. It's such an odd bit head to choose for an item that doesn't even have a service interval. Why they didn't use a deep triple square for a bolt like that is beyond me. However cleaning it dry and hitting it with a hammer to break the surface tension of the taper is the trick IMO. I'm almost positive that a impact gun set on a low psi would have worked just as well. It's the knocking you need to crack it. Once cracked it's like butter.


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## Grizzeled184 (Dec 2, 2015)

Barn01 said:


> It was so noisy that my neighbor was annoyed when I started it to leave for work in the morning. It was also to the point were it was hard to order food at drive thru haha.
> This past week I wouldn't allow the car to move more than a few km's for fear of blowing the engine. I knew it must have been bad but I didn't think it was THIS bad. Lucky indeed!
> 
> I was blown away at how quiet it was after the change. I was smiling ear to ear and I don't think it's ever sounded this good
> ...


Wow that's crazy lol. A impact/punch driver probably would work good on that bolt too. You strike the end of the driver with a hammer and it should break the bolt loose.

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## Grizzeled184 (Dec 2, 2015)

http://www.garrettwade.com/pro-scre...MI8pPc9vmD1gIVEFcNCh3z1QnYEAQYDSABEgJ02PD_BwE

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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Grizzeled184 said:


> Wow that's crazy lol. A impact/punch driver probably would work good on that bolt too. You strike the end of the driver with a hammer and it should break the bolt loose.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I'm not sure you'd have enough room to get a good swing with a hammer but if you could then YES I think that's a great idea. I'd just be fearful that you're swinging on an angle and that would put the bit on an angle at time of impact. There's not enough depth inside the head of the bolt to risk anything but a perpendicular hit!!! 

I've used those punch drivers to get rotor retaining bolts out and they work really well.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

It was so noisy that my neighbor was annoyed when I started it to leave for work in the morning. It was also to the point were it was hard to order food at drive thru haha.
This past week I wouldn't allow the car to move more than a few km's for fear of blowing the engine. I knew it must have been bad but I didn't think it was THIS bad. Lucky indeed!

I was blown away at how quiet it was after the change. I was smiling ear to ear and I don't think it's ever sounded this good[/quote]


WOOOW! That is by far the worst I've ever heard of it getting. You, my friend, dodged a bullet with that thing surviving so long. Glad it's over and done with and purring like a kitten now. Enjoy it!




> By the way that poly drive design is DUMB. The bit only goes in a couple mm. No wonder people are stripping it. It's such an odd bit head to choose for an item that doesn't even have a service interval. Why they didn't use a deep triple square for a bolt like that is beyond me. However cleaning it dry and hitting it with a hammer to break the surface tension of the taper is the trick IMO. I'm almost positive that a impact gun set on a low psi would have worked just as well. It's the knocking you need to crack it. Once cracked it's like butter.


^ 100% accurate, couldn't agree more on all accounts. Very well put. I hope all who do this job in the future come across your post because I think you nailed it.


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## .:R28 (Apr 3, 2012)

Sorry guys if that was covered before but can someone confirm what is the right part number of the chain tensioner bolts? Some catalogs are listing N10124308 and some others N10196303 and it is really confusing. Your help is highly appreciated!


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## ludatrick (Jun 22, 2017)

.:R28 said:


> Sorry guys if that was covered before but can someone confirm what is the right part number of the chain tensioner bolts? Some catalogs are listing N10124308 and some others N10196303 and it is really confusing. Your help is highly appreciated!


The N10124308 is the revised version 

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## SDARCY116 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi guys,

having an absolute nightmare after replacing the my inlet camshaft ,as well the chain and tensioner...despite using a timing tool and setting the exhuast camshaft to absolute tdc, im still unable to get the inlet timing correct (confirmed p000a camshaft postion slow reponse all three adjuster oil rings have being replaced), at this current moment with how the timing is set the car is misfiring badly on cold idle, once warm its seems to reving on idle by its own..great fun!!


anyway reading back through the thread i can see many people have mentioned the timing tool has enough play for two teeth of movement one person even said up to three teeth of movement!!:banghead:

has anyone got any tips or tricks to ensure the timing is 100%, would really really really like to know what postion do i set the vvt before redoing timing ?ideally before i reattempt this job on sunday before back to work monday!

many thanks,

Sam


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## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

It’s been a couple years since I did this job, but I’ll try and help. I got the timing correct the first try buy using the assenmacher brand cam locking tool and following the factory service manual to the T. The factory purposely allows the intake cam to move a few teeth with the locking tool installed. With the locking tool in place, install the chain over the intake cam sprocket and tensioner (with pin), place cam adjuster onto the chain so that the alignment pin very nearly lines up to the key way on the exhaust cam, now rotate the intake cam clockwise using the factory cam wrench or an improvised tool (what I did) until the pin on the adjuster slips into the key way on the exhaust cam and install the adjuster bolt. You will end up rotating the intake cam slightly less than one full tooth clockwise in order to align the adjuster. 

Link to factory instructions:

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...ar/removing_and_installing_camshaft_adjuster/


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## SDARCY116 (Oct 14, 2017)

SuckSquishBangBlow said:


> It’s been a couple years since I did this job, but I’ll try and help. I got the timing correct the first try buy using the assenmacher brand cam locking tool and following the factory service manual to the T. The factory purposely allows the intake cam to move a few teeth with the locking tool installed. With the locking tool in place, install the chain over the intake cam sprocket and tensioner (with pin), place cam adjuster onto the chain so that the alignment pin very nearly lines up to the key way on the exhaust cam, now rotate the intake cam clockwise using the factory cam wrench or an improvised tool (what I did) until the pin on the adjuster slips into the key way on the exhaust cam and install the adjuster bolt. You will end up rotating the intake cam slightly less than one full tooth clockwise in order to align the adjuster.
> 
> Link to factory instructions:
> 
> http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...ar/removing_and_installing_camshaft_adjuster/


Cheers for the advice and link much appreciated unfortunally i've run out of sunlight and its freezing (uk hahaa), uber to work tomorrow it is hahaa!! hopefully ill get it fully fixed tomorrow evening!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Unsure if I’ve posted this already. Hopefully it helps a little?
https://youtu.be/SVitvQBf0ao


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

SDARCY116 said:


> Cheers for the advice and link much appreciated unfortunally i've run out of sunlight and its freezing (uk hahaa), uber to work tomorrow it is hahaa!! hopefully ill get it fully fixed tomorrow evening!


Read my post (half way down). It will answer how to set the timing correctly the first time. Just make sure that you are counting starting at the first link after the peen mark on the intake cam. This was written so you can put the intake cam in the correct position within the lock range and if you don't know what position your VVT ring is in.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-engines&p=107397433&viewfull=1#post107397433


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

I have done 3 cam changes and have never used the tool. Line up your crank at TDC with the mark on the pulley, line up the mark on the exhaust cam pulley with line on the cover and the make sure your intake and exhaust cam lobes on the cylinder closest to the timing chain are exactly even.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

I just wanted to add to this thread again.

I'm in the process of doing a neighbours 07' A3 S-Line Euro Spec and noticed that his intake cam is different than my US spec premium. Instead of a peen mark on the sprocket that mine has, his has a hole and it's in a slightly different location. So if you have an index hole in the sprocket then you'll need to count the chain links slightly differently than how I specified in my previous post. The hole falls between a link instead of the peen falling on a link. So if you are counting from the hole then add half a link to the numbers I posted.

His broke a chain and proceeded to break the cam adjuster. I was able to cobble parts together enough to crank the engine for a compression test and thankfully he has >175psi on all cylinders so I think he dodged a bullet by not bending the intake valves. Time to order some real replacement parts.

For bragging rights that is now TWO polydrive bolts I've removed with no issue. Cleaning with brake cleaner then inserting the socket and hitting the head a few times firm with a hammer really seems to help.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

I am stuck I've done this job 5 times already and can never get the junk lined up. I'm either retarded or advance every time. What was that if the tool bends timing belt will be off? I don't get it. My tool did bend taking the bolt off. I then just put it to the intake cam since I wasn't applyingv any pressure on it. I've been diy mechanic on all my family an my cars this has to be the biggest headache ived ever dealt with.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

*Help me please!*

I've done this 6 times already with no success.
Anyway you can help me. I do have a little for on the intake cam but I don't have any markings on the crank I am however in tdc. As a double checked with pulling the plug on cylinder 1 plus I have a mark on the pass side of the crankshaft. I had my chain skip a tooth one day at started right after walnut blasting which also could have played a role in it failing faster than I thought. However the problem I noticed was when I first did my oil change I put walmart sipwrtech synthetic in it and it rattled like crazy I then ordered the parts but I been procrastinating as it involved special tools and taking a lot of the parts apart. Well now I have this thing apart and until I get it right I'm not wasting my time putting it back together as I've done the damn thing 5 times and this is my 6th. I took the chain off and installed a new one with a new tensioner. I can't get the damn thing aligned. I tried the live pointing the same direction like 3 times... I see now that the we don't know where the hydraulic ring is positioned. I read your previous post about but I am still confused. Another thing is the cam tool I got was one from Amazon and really suck I bent one of the legs already and I turned that one over to the intake side so now instead of 3 position it can go I have like 6...lol if you don't mind can you please help me?


Barn01 said:


> I just wanted to add to this thread again.
> 
> I'm in the process of doing a neighbours 07' A3 S-Line Euro Spec and noticed that his intake cam is different than my US spec premium. Instead of a peen mark on the sprocket that mine has, his has a hole and it's in a slightly different location. So if you have an index hole in the sprocket then you'll need to count the chain links slightly differently than how I specified in my previous post. The hole falls between a link instead of the peen falling on a link. So if you are counting from the hole then add half a link to the numbers I posted.
> 
> ...


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> I've done this 6 times already with no success.
> Anyway you can help me. I do have a little for on the intake cam but I don't have any markings on the crank I am however in tdc. As a double checked with pulling the plug on cylinder 1 plus I have a mark on the pass side of the crankshaft. I had my chain skip a tooth one day at started right after walnut blasting which also could have played a role in it failing faster than I thought. However the problem I noticed was when I first did my oil change I put walmart sipwrtech synthetic in it and it rattled like crazy I then ordered the parts but I been procrastinating as it involved special tools and taking a lot of the parts apart. Well now I have this thing apart and until I get it right I'm not wasting my time putting it back together as I've done the damn thing 5 times and this is my 6th. I took the chain off and installed a new one with a new tensioner. I can't get the damn thing aligned. I tried the live pointing the same direction like 3 times... I see now that the we don't know where the hydraulic ring is positioned. I read your previous post about but I am still confused. Another thing is the cam tool I got was one from Amazon and really suck I bent one of the legs already and I turned that one over to the intake side so now instead of 3 position it can go I have like 6...lol if you don't mind can you please help me?


I'm happy to help if I can.

1) How do you know that you are out of time? Are you getting error codes?

2) With the timing mark on the belt side aligned with the cover ... Please post a pic from the chain side of how it looks now. (chain exposed of course)

3) Please post a pic of how bent the tool is and is there a way you can straighten it ... perhaps a longer / stronger bolt ... assuming you got the cheap bolted type.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

My cams atm https://imgur.com/gallery/yXLLx p0016 is the code I got from obdeleven. I also checked the timing on live status and it was going into -15. I don't have a picture if the bent tool. I believe it's off a little on the exhaust timing as taking the bolt off moved the timing a little. I found the original chain and tensioner when it had originally skipped a tooth but I don't know if it was retarded or advanced. Here Original chain and tensioner that skipped a tooth https://imgur.com/gallery/alzxz here's when I opened it up My cams when I opened it up https://imgur.com/gallery/Bxii2


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> My cams atm https://imgur.com/gallery/yXLLx p0016 is the code I got from obdeleven. I also checked the timing on live status and it was going into -15. I don't have a picture if the bent tool. I believe it's off a little on the exhaust timing as taking the bolt off moved the timing a little. I found the original chain and tensioner when it had originally skipped a tooth but I don't know if it was retarded or advanced. Here Original chain and tensioner that skipped a tooth https://imgur.com/gallery/alzxz here's when I opened it up My cams when I opened it up https://imgur.com/gallery/Bxii2


Here's my post on the previous page. Please read #6

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-engines&p=107397433&viewfull=1#post107397433

From the pic of atm, I can't tell if the cam lock tool is in place and are you on the timing BELT mark?
From the pic of when you opened up the cams? are you on the belt timing mark? It's obvious that the tool can't be inserted in that position. I'm not concerned with the lobe position from that pic until I know where all the timing marks are and what happens when you try to move it to insert the tool.

If I were you then I would beef up that lock tool then insert it and using either an intake cam rotator tool or using the poly drive tool ... move your hydrolink fully one way and then fully the other way. Mark where the chain goes behind it in both locations and take a couple pictures where the intake peen mark is visible along with the chain passing behind the hydrolink. I'm less concerned with cam lobe positions than I am with links from the peen to the point where it passes behind the hydrolink.

There's no chance that your hydrolink has a sheared locator pin is there? That's a big problem on these cars and makes timing impossible without it.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Yes sorry I think I posted wrong pics when I took off the valve cover when it first happened. I was not on tdc on those pics. I am however on tdc as soon as I get home I will take a pic of the tdc markings on the timing belt side. However I did see #6 that's why I posted my pic since I have the 9 links from the pin mark to the exhaust adjuster. But at the same time my timing mark right now after removing the belt moved a little. I also noticed that there was a red mark on the back possibly from a precious repair I wonder if that's where the pin needs to be? But then the tool is killing me I believe it moves too much I'm going to ace hardware and buying a couple of larger screws to set in there for better support and so junk don't move. I noticed the tool has only a tiny bit of threads and are stripped. You think just jamming in some longer screws and impacting their way in there would work or should I just jb weld it in?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> Yes sorry I think I posted wrong pics when I took off the valve cover when it first happened. I was not on tdc on those pics. I am however on tdc as soon as I get home I will take a pic of the tdc markings on the timing belt side. However I did see #6 that's why I posted my pic since I have the 9 links from the pin mark to the exhaust adjuster. But at the same time my timing mark right now after removing the belt moved a little. I also noticed that there was a red mark on the back possibly from a precious repair I wonder if that's where the pin needs to be? But then the tool is killing me I believe it moves too much I'm going to ace hardware and buying a couple of larger screws to set in there for better support and so junk don't move. I noticed the tool has only a tiny bit of threads and are stripped. You think just jamming in some longer screws and impacting their way in there would work or should I just jb weld it in?


Longer screws for sure and use a hardened bolt or stainless screws. If you JB weld then make sure you use coarse sandpaper on the post and the hole so that the JB has something to bite into. It shouldn't take too much pressure to move that ring. However sometimes those rings are very sticky from years of varnish buildup and they don't move. If that's the case you can remove the ring and take the 5 screws out of it to clean it up. The piece is basically made of 2 parts plus the cover. The 2 inside parts of the ring are suppose to spin about 20deg to form large or small chambers (depending on when the N205 valve is open/closed). If you can't separate the insides by hand then you may have to tap it from the back side with a hammer. If you take it apart then clean out everything with degreaser and lube it back up before putting it back together. Obviously if you take the ring back off then you'll have to check the sprocket side for the index pin. If it's sheared that's BAD. If that's the case I would just order another one. I've tried to cut off drill bits, pound and glue them in and they work only temporarily.

As for TDC ... don't think of the belt mark as being on TDC. It's possible that the sprocket slipped and the belt mark no longer indicates TDC. That's why you need to see that the belt mark lines up while the cam lock tool is in place.

I just thought of something else. Did you check the 3 O-rings on the N205 insert that sticks out of the cover? Those need to be fully intact or you'll throw timing codes. Mind I think that one is usually seen as P0001 but still if you have the cover off then you need to check them. The ceramic ones are very brittle and break easily.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Well I couldn't resist anymore and I went and compared pictures and the 6th time was also no good...lol... sad but true how I can't get this damn thing on point. I think I should have went with the picture I posted earlier with cams atm because I changed it because I had some bad instincts. I fixed the tool with longer screws and also have pics showing tdc on the exhaust cam by the belt.Tdc. https://imgur.com/gallery/AjyCl what I went with unfortunately Timing off i went with this setup try no good....smh https://imgur.com/gallery/KQWY0 this is my daily driver and have made it difficult for my wife to commute to work as I took her rav4 from her since I pay the bill...lol. next try I'm going with the first setup. My problem the first 6 times was that I would take the belt off. Now I'm just going to take off the adjuster and move forward a tooth and if that don't work 3 teeth to the back it is...wow...what a pain...lol


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> Well I couldn't resist anymore and I went and compared pictures and the 6th time was also no good...lol... sad but true how I can't get this damn thing on point. I think I should have went with the picture I posted earlier with cams atm because I changed it because I had some bad instincts. I fixed the tool with longer screws and also have pics showing tdc on the exhaust cam by the belt.Tdc. https://imgur.com/gallery/AjyCl what I went with unfortunately Timing off i went with this setup try no good....smh https://imgur.com/gallery/KQWY0 this is my daily driver and have made it difficult for my wife to commute to work as I took her rav4 from her since I pay the bill...lol. next try I'm going with the first setup. My problem the first 6 times was that I would take the belt off. Now I'm just going to take off the adjuster and move forward a tooth and if that don't work 3 teeth to the back it is...wow...what a pain...lol


I'm not sure what position you are in with the last pic but if you are on with the belt mark AND the cam tool is in place then as long as you haven't sheared the key you should be at the right amount of links. I counted 9 links from peen to the adjuster and that is correct when the adjuster is in the fully tightened position. If you didn't put the poly drive and tighten / move the adjuster then I suggest you do so and see if it shortens your link count. As I have said in my #6 post ... it should be 9 links when tight and 10 links when in the loose position. That's it!


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

Repny, is it possible that you sheared off the locating pin?


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Is this the exhaust cam adjuster pin? If so no mine is still intact. Thanks for the info though. I wasn't sure as to the sheared off pin he was talking about.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Ok so I uploaded another 2 pics that's with the poly drive bolt already tightened. #1 is what I went with #2 is when i second guessed myself and decided to go with #1 but I believe #2 should be the correct timing. Enlighten me please. Or am I good and there's possibly a timing error on the belt itself but I believe it here was I would heard by now the valve hitting the piston or am I wrong?Which Cam chain reinstall is the correct one or? https://imgur.com/gallery/qfPdG


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> Ok so I uploaded another 2 pics that's with the poly drive bolt already tightened. #1 is what I went with #2 is when i second guessed myself and decided to go with #1 but I believe #2 should be the correct timing. Enlighten me please. Or am I good and there's possibly a timing error on the belt itself but I believe it here was I would heard by now the valve hitting the piston or am I wrong?Which Cam chain reinstall is the correct one or? https://imgur.com/gallery/qfPdG


Both of those pics look the same to me. You counted the links wrong. Your #1 link is above the peen but in reality only half that link is fwd the mark so it doesn't count. Only count the links forward the peen. In which case you show 9. That's the correct number when the adjuster ring is fully clockwise. If you turn back the intake cam you should see the adjuster and chain move CCW by about 1 link. You have to have some kind of a tool to stick in the intake cam if you want to see that. Or sometimes you can get it to move with the poly drive.

So far it all looks fine to me. I'm not sure why you are getting the code. Did you check the 3 seals that got into the adjuster ring? 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Actually if you take a closer look of pic #2 it's pointing past the screw hole. Pic #1 is pointing more towards the screw hole. I'm going to take another look at the plastic rings around that adjuster as didn't really examined it last time I had it off. I'm going to take it off right now and report back with my findings. Thanks.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Looks like the seals were cracked...hopefully that solves the problem. Would that cause misfiring? It's misfiring like crazy. They were extremely brittle and split not sure if they were suppose to be like that?Broken seals https://imgur.com/gallery/WnVNF that what happened when I twisted them. Anyone know the part number to them I have the plastic ones.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Well looks like I found my answer in another post on here. http://forums.vwvortex.com/#/topics/7218797
Now to chase down some plastic rings my local vw dealership wanted $102.00 for 3 plastic rings. I'd pay the $65 in a heartbeat but $102.00 is absurd for 3 plastic rings. That junk better come with some sucky sucky...damn $102. I still can't believe seen that price. Part # 06f198107a for those reading this.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> Looks like the seals were cracked...hopefully that solves the problem. Would that cause misfiring? It's misfiring like crazy. They were extremely brittle and split not sure if they were suppose to be like that?Broken seals https://imgur.com/gallery/WnVNF that what happened when I twisted them. Anyone know the part number to them I have the plastic ones.


They are brittle even when new but pliable enough that I can open them up to slide them into the grooves. I don't have the part# right now because I'm not at home. I got mine from ECS Tuning. I can get a part number tomorrow if you want? Without them the timing doesn't advance or retard with RPM and that will throw an engine code.

As for misfire, you have another issue. I'm not sure what would cause that. Hopefully you don't have a cracked plug from pulling them out. Or a bent electrode? Make sure the coil packs are fully seated.

Fix the seals then get the engine code for the misfires. 

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

nater said:


> Thought I'd bump this from the dead as I need to replace these o-rings. But nobody mentioned (or I missed it) that they were available separately. They are: 06f 198 107a
> and a quick google search of that part # nets this: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine...amshaft-adjuster-housing-seal-set/06f198107a/
> 
> 
> EDIT: They were in stock at my local dealer, comes in a 3 pack. :thumbup:





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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

I was looking at the adjuster and seems to have some engraved grooves looks like it used to have the metal rings don't know what to think if this but could this cause the misfire I'm having?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> I was looking at the adjuster and seems to have some engraved grooves looks like it used to have the metal rings don't know what to think if this but could this cause the misfire I'm having?


I have the metal rings and I have done this on 2 other engines with ceramic rings. I can tell you without a doubt that the adjuster will have deep groves if it is supposed to have metal rings. If it only has very minor or superficial patterns then it should take the ceramic rings.

If you try to use the ceramic rings in a deep groove adjuster then you run a high risk that the rings will break as you wiggle the cover on. The rings are pretty expensive but then again so is a new adjuster with a smooth center. I'm sorry to say that I have yet to find aftermarket metal rings. 

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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Well I may have some bad news. I think my actual timing belt slipped I don't know a few ,a couple or may 1 tooth. The timing belt was replaced by the dealership prior to purchase. I wonder what caused it to slip. I wonder if I bent some valves? Would I have to re time it and to do a leak down compression test to find out prior to disassembling the head? Also if the valves are bent should I rebuild the head or just get used motor? I can get a motor and manual transmission for $600 but since I don't the tranny because I have an automatic tranny I can sell the transmission for maybe half that @ around $300 give me your thoughts and or advise. Im leaning more towards the complete motor and put a new belt myself so i know for sure it got done. Thanks. Heres a snapshot of a video i think Timimg belt jumped correct me if im wrong https://imgur.com/gallery/Rqa7J


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> Well I may have some bad news. I think my actual timing belt slipped I don't know a few ,a couple or may 1 tooth. The timing belt was replaced by the dealership prior to purchase. I wonder what caused it to slip. I wonder if I bent some valves? Would I have to re time it and to do a leak down compression test to find out prior to disassembling the head? Also if the valves are bent should I rebuild the head or just get used motor? I can get a motor and manual transmission for $600 but since I don't the tranny because I have an automatic tranny I can sell the transmission for maybe half that @ around $300 give me your thoughts and or advise. Im leaning more towards the complete motor and put a new belt myself so i know for sure it got done. Thanks. Heres a snapshot of a video i think Timimg belt jumped correct me if im wrong https://imgur.com/gallery/Rqa7J


That is just a screen shot from what I can see. I don't see any video so therefore I have no idea what you are trying to show me.

If you are wondering about the head and if you should continue then I suggest you follow these steps.

Put the belt mark on the timing arrow. Does the cam lock tool easily slide into the cam notches when in this position? If yes then you are OK to move to chain timing. If no then you need to see which cam notch is not aligned. If the exhaust notch is not aligned then you have an exhaust cam collar slipped that holds the cog for the belt side. If the intake cam notch is not aligned but the exhaust notch is aligned then you likely have a link count that is off on the chain between the adjuster and the intake cam. It is also possible that you have a sheered adj pin but you already confirmed that yours is still in tact. It's very rare for a belt to skip a notch on the cog so I'm not sure I would go down that road yet.

If you pull the plugs and the fuel pump fuse then you can do a compression test and check for bent valves and/or damaged pistons. You should see something in the 150-210psi range. The last one that I did ranged from 175psi on 2-3 and 210psi on 1-2. When I saw that I figured we were ok to order parts for the timing chain repair. The car is repaired and runs properly again. Damage on that car was a broken timing chain which broke the adjuster and damaged the housing.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Well took a little much needed weekend break from working on the damn car. Looks like I've probably seen what I feared the most. As i did a walnut blast on my intake valves apparently a lot of walnuts went in the timing housing causing the belt to skip 5 teeth. Word of advice to those who do a walnut job for the first time "Cover everything and make sure the walnuts dont get everywhere I was careless, and this could happen to you".Now the question is: are my valves bent. Can I do a compression without putting everything back together? Ived ordered a new timing belt kit with all the idler pulleys,tensioner,water pump, and belt oem just to be on the safe side. I also ordered 16 valves intake and exhaust with there valve guides generic as oem where and arm and a leg. Also headgasket with all new bolts and gaskets oem as well. As far as the valves should I keep the oem ones that are good if I need to do a valve job or should I change them all I am aware I would have to seat them in properly using the gritty paste. Also is it safe to use a drill on them? Or should I do the old school manual way. I don't want to mess anything else up. I know I'm stupid for not using a vacuum sealed while blasting but hey it was a mistake that has cost me hundreds of dollars now I'm in some more debt...lol... beats paying the dealership though, they would charge me like $4 grand for something like this more than the damn car is pretty much worth. Thanks for all your help and any input would be greatly appreciated. Here's what my crank sprocket looked like oil and walnuts don't mix..lol How not to walnut blast your direct injection car. Skipped timing 5 teeth hopefully I didn't bend any valves. https://imgur.com/gallery/UQkyK


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Repny2dafullest said:


> Well took a little much needed weekend break from working on the damn car. Looks like I've probably seen what I feared the most. As i did a walnut blast on my intake valves apparently a lot of walnuts went in the timing housing causing the belt to skip 5 teeth. Word of advice to those who do a walnut job for the first time "Cover everything and make sure the walnuts dont get everywhere I was careless, and this could happen to you".Now the question is: are my valves bent. Can I do a compression without putting everything back together? Ived ordered a new timing belt kit with all the idler pulleys,tensioner,water pump, and belt oem just to be on the safe side. I also ordered 16 valves intake and exhaust with there valve guides generic as oem where and arm and a leg. Also headgasket with all new bolts and gaskets oem as well. As far as the valves should I keep the oem ones that are good if I need to do a valve job or should I change them all I am aware I would have to seat them in properly using the gritty paste. Also is it safe to use a drill on them? Or should I do the old school manual way. I don't want to mess anything else up. I know I'm stupid for not using a vacuum sealed while blasting but hey it was a mistake that has cost me hundreds of dollars now I'm in some more debt...lol... beats paying the dealership though, they would charge me like $4 grand for something like this more than the damn car is pretty much worth. Thanks for all your help and any input would be greatly appreciated. Here's what my crank sprocket looked like oil and walnuts don't mix..lol How not to walnut blast your direct injection car. Skipped timing 5 teeth hopefully I didn't bend any valves. https://imgur.com/gallery/UQkyK


How do you know that you skipped 5 teeth? Because your upper belt mark lines up but your lower crank mark doesn't? If that's all you're going by then I'll ask you to think about the gear ratio for a min.

So you ordered a new head? If that's the case why do you care if you have bent valves? Why would you order a head before doing a compression test? Either I'm lost in translation on your posts and don't understand what you are talking about anymore or I think you may be in over your head for what you're talking about doing. I wish you good luck my friend but I don't think I can be much help anymore.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

Thanks for your help, I finally got the car up and running. Timing skipped 5 teeth and it's a miracle I didn't bend any valves. Went ahead and put a new belt, tensioner, the 2 little iddlers and and new metal water pump. Car has never ran better. Ps. I bought those little rings for the adjuster and lost them. I went ahead and put it without them until I find them.


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## Dapela (May 30, 2018)

Im stuck trying to remove the camshaft adjuster bolt. The one you have to use the T40080 socket. Are the bolt regularly threaded or do I have to spin it clockwhise?


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Dapela said:


> Im stuck trying to remove the camshaft adjuster bolt. The one you have to use the T40080 socket. Are the bolt regularly threaded or do I have to spin it clockwhise?


To quote a gentleman I was having a conversation with on this thread quite awhile back:

"By the way that poly drive design is DUMB. The bit only goes in a couple mm. No wonder people are stripping it. It's such an odd bit head to choose for an item that doesn't even have a service interval. Why they didn't use a deep triple square for a bolt like that is beyond me. However cleaning it dry and hitting it with a hammer to break the surface tension of the taper is the trick IMO. I'm almost positive that a impact gun set on a low psi would have worked just as well. It's the knocking you need to crack it. Once cracked it's like butter."

He is spot on. Either nicely seat the poly-drive into the bolt head then hit the end of poly-drive or extension connected to poly-drive with a hammer a good few times. Maybe a little PB blaster beforehand too. Then, while making sure one hand is near the poly-drive keeping it perfectly straight in line with the bolt head, and the other hand on your wrench test the everything is snug and if it is give a good quick jerking pull, NOT a slow but hard pull. Frankly the objective is to simulate an impact gun here with the hammer and then the quick jerks to loosen it. The longer you tug hard on it the more likely I think you are to wind up sheering it because the line between when it's good and when it shears is just so hard to distinguish.

But if you want my advice, save yourself even the slightest chance of fking up and just go buy an impact gun at Harbor Freight. Set it to low and zip that sucker out.


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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

I just stumbled across this thread. Here is where I’m at with mine. It started with a broken tab on the back of the block, passenger side. How do you make the bleeding stop? lol









https://i.imgur.com/3mHoKy4.jpg

-RJM


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Loco38SUP said:


> I just stumbled across this thread. Here is where I’m at with mine. It started with a broken tab on the back of the block, passenger side. How do you make the bleeding stop? lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did that start out as a tensioner replacement? If so WTF? haha

I just did another one on Sat. (That was my 4th time) I'm starting to get pretty quick at these things. Mind you this one had the orig valve cover gasket at 225k km's and it was leaking REALLY bad into the spark plug pockets that my socket and extension was covered when I pulled them out. Taking off the gasket was a crispy mess and I've learned that it's best to cover the open areas of the engine with a cloth before you start chipping away at a crispy gasket.


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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Barn01 said:


> Did that start out as a tensioner replacement? If so WTF? haha
> 
> I just did another one on Sat. (That was my 4th time) I'm starting to get pretty quick at these things. Mind you this one had the orig valve cover gasket at 225k km's and it was leaking REALLY bad into the spark plug pockets that my socket and extension was covered when I pulled them out. Taking off the gasket was a crispy mess and I've learned that it's best to cover the open areas of the engine with a cloth before you start chipping away at a crispy gasket.


This journey started out with other engine repairs. I need a whole thread to myself to document the madness. lol

Here is a pic of the broken tensioner. 








https://i.imgur.com/vWp3O7e.jpg

How are you guys dealing with the damaged camshaft journals and bearing surfaces on the head? Mine were severely gouged from the metal particles that broke off of the tensioner. Here is a pic of the deep gouging. 








https://i.imgur.com/Hm9c5zw.jpg

-RJM


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

I believe you will have ro replace the cylinder head with that damage. 

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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Sandman333 said:


> I believe you will have ro replace the cylinder head with that damage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Damn, thats what I didn’t want to hear.

I could only imagine what the head looks like on the ones that the timing chain was riding on metal. 

-RJM


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

That one journal is gouged pretty good. How was oil pressure prior to the tensioner going bad? If it was good, I think I would try running it as is....


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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

kjr6306 said:


> That one journal is gouged pretty good. How was oil pressure prior to the tensioner going bad? If it was good, I think I would try running it as is....


The oil pressure was good. I cleaned it up with a wooden dowel and 2000 grit sand paper. Im going to run it as is for now. 

This is my next issue. Does anyone know where to find a replacement? It goes inside the timing chain cover. I guess a metal fragment from the tensioner ripped through it. 










-RJM


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Loco38SUP said:


> This journey started out with other engine repairs. I need a whole thread to myself to document the madness. lol
> 
> Here is a pic of the broken tensioner.
> 
> ...


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Need some help. I’ve removed all the bolts from the housing but it still won’t come off! Is that normal or is there a trick to getting it to cooperate? 










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## 10001110101 (Aug 7, 2007)

Htraitor said:


> Need some help. I’ve removed all the bolts from the housing but it still won’t come off! Is that normal or is there a trick to getting it to cooperate?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A few gentle taps with a heavy rubber mallet. The trick is to tap it with something that won't crack the aluminum.


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Turned out there was one last bolt that was covered in sludge that I couldn’t see because it was tucked up in there. Once I pulled it, the housing came right off. I got the housing cleaned up and saw some scaring on the inside where the exhaust cam sits. Looks like the chain made contact in some capacity. 











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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

That looks like contact from something in there for sure. Did the chain break on you?

-RJM


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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Hey guys I also found this vacuum pump seal kit for those that have oil leaks at the pump. 

https://www.rkxtech.com/products/rkx-vw-audi-2-0t-vacuum-pump-kit










-RJM


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Loco38SUP said:


> That looks like contact from something in there for sure. Did the chain break on you?
> 
> -RJM


No but I bought the car used with about 80K and now it’s just about to hit 200K so the PO may have had that issue. Or it could have been the cam follower. My first one was pretty shot and had ruined the pump. The cam didn’t look too bad though and has been running fine since. 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> No but I bought the car used with about 80K and now it’s just about to hit 200K so the PO may have had that issue. Or it could have been the cam follower. My first one was pretty shot and had ruined the pump. The cam didn’t look too bad though and has been running fine since.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you replace the seals for the VVT? It's hard to see in the pic but it looks like at least one or two of your three seals were broken?


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Barn01 said:


> Did you replace the seals for the VVT? It's hard to see in the pic but it looks like at least one or two of your three seals were broken?


No but since you mentioned it I suppose I should. My polydrive bit came in Monday so if I can get ahold of a cam lock I’ll be changing the chain and tensioner this weekend. While I’m at it I’ll do the VVT seals. 


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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Htraitor said:


> No but since you mentioned it I suppose I should. My polydrive bit came in Monday so if I can get ahold of a cam lock I’ll be changing the chain and tensioner this weekend. While I’m at it I’ll do the VVT seals.


Any luck removing the cam adjuster bolt? 

-RJM


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Loco38SUP said:


> Any luck removing the cam adjuster bolt?
> 
> -RJM


Not yet but I haven’t tried. I was hoping to get someone to loan me a cam lock so I could finish this job but ended up ordering one tonight. So it’ll probably be the weekend before I’ll attempt this. I have an impact gun so I’m hoping it cooperates. I can also apply heat to loosen it using my Milwaukee heat gun. 
In the meantime I discovered I have a wheel bearing that refuses to hold onto my wheel studs so I just ordered that too. 
Tonight I finished installing four (48”x24”) fluorescent shop lights in my garage. So now I can actually see what I’m doing. 











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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Nice..plenty of light is always good. Did you pick up a pocket mirror yet? lol

- RJM


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Lol no but when I had to remove the two bolts that hold the heat shield over the turbo, I used one of those small dental mirrors I bought at the dollar store. 


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

I'll be changing the tensioner on my BPY engine as well, in conjunction with rebuilding a failed turbocharger at 140k miles. I have the VW poly drive bit and a Schwaben cam lock tool from ECS Tuning here. 

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

So did the deed Friday and the poly drive had me nervous. I have a 32” breaker bar so as I was trying to break it loose I didn’t want to apply too much pressure and strip the bolt. After all was said and done it popped when it broke loose and was easy-peasie the rest of the way. 





















As you can see they were ready to be replaced. I wonder why VW considers this a lifetime part.(maybe I’m making that up) That whole concept has always intrigued me. There’s no such thing as a lifetime part unless I’m supposed to throw the engine away after I reach a certain mile. 

In other news, I get to chase down a CEL that came on today when my wife drove to work. Geez, it never ends.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> So did the deed Friday and the poly drive had me nervous. I have a 32” breaker bar so as I was trying to break it loose I didn’t want to apply too much pressure and strip the bolt. After all said and done it popped when it broke loose and was easy-peasie the rest of the way.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep sounds about right. Once you crack the surface tension of the bolt head then it's loosey goosey all the way out.

Did you count the links after cracking the bolt loose? I've found that the be the easiest approach to getting it right every time.

Also I hope you checked that all 3 seals were in tact that slide into the VVT sprocket. They tend to break easily. 

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Barn01 said:


> Yep sounds about right. Once you crack the surface tension of the bolt head then it's loosey goosey all the way out.
> 
> Did you count the links after cracking the bolt loose? I've found that the be the easiest approach to getting it right every time.
> 
> ...


No, but I wish I had. I just lined up the exhaust gear with the groove on the cam and slowly turned it one tooth at a time until it was lined up. Once I had everything back on I turned the engine over by hand to make sure there was no binding. 

As for the VVT sprocket, do you have a part number for those gaskets? The middle one was broken the other two were intact, albeit a bit brittle and crunchy. I’d like to replace but couldn’t find part numbers when I looked then forgot in my concern with NOT grenading my engine by waiting too long on the cam timing chain repair.


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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Here is the part number for reference. 

- 06F198107A

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine...amshaft-adjuster-housing-seal-set/06f198107a/

Two of mine broke with the slightest touch. 

Also mine threw a P000A code at startup. I re-seated the cam position sensor plug on the timing chain cover and it fixed the problem

-RJM


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

That’s good to know because my CEL came on the other day. I haven’t pulled codes yet but I bet that’s it. 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> That’s good to know because my CEL came on the other day. I haven’t pulled codes yet but I bet that’s it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It could also be that you're a tooth off ... the car will still run, or maybe the VVT won't move due to the broken seal. You'll get a code for that as well.

It's a finicky fix but after doing it 4 times on various cars I've gotten pretty good at it


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Barn01 said:


> It could also be that you're a tooth off ... the car will still run, or maybe the VVT won't move due to the broken seal. You'll get a code for that as well.
> 
> It's a finicky fix but after doing it 4 times on various cars I've gotten pretty good at it


You think it will still run if it’s off a tooth? 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> You think it will still run if it’s off a tooth?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know it will. It will run like crap in either high or low rpm range depending what tooth you are on, and will throw timing codes.

It could also be the seals for the n205 or it could even be a sized VVT mind you, timing codes would have been thrown before the work started if the VVT didn't move. 

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Nah it came on after a couple hundred miles. No loss of power in either top or bottom end of the power band. 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> Nah it came on after a couple hundred miles. No loss of power in either top or bottom end of the power band.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Codes? I recommend getting an ODB11 if you plan on keeping the car. 

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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Well my engine light came back on again! 

This was after 100 miles of easy driving. I pulled the code and this time its P0011, Bank 1 Over Advanced. The last time it was the P000A, Bank 1 Slow Response.

I decided to remove my N205 Solenoid Valve to see if any metal debris might have worked its way in there from the tensioner grenading. 

As soon as I pulled the electrical connector oil trickled out. I guess after replacing the VVT rings Im making great oil pressure there now. So great its blowing through the terminal contacts.

Time to throw another $140 at this red headed step child. Here is the part number for reference. 

- 06F109257C

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/n205-valve/06f109257c/

—RJM


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Barn01 said:


> Codes? I recommend getting an ODB11 if you plan on keeping the car.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Is OBD11 better than RossTech’s VCDS? 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> Is OBD11 better than RossTech’s VCDS?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No it's not but most people don't have or want to spend the money on VCDS. 

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Yeah I don’t either but I am planning to keep the car so it may be worth the investment. 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Loco38SUP said:


> Well my engine light came back on again!
> 
> This was after 100 miles of easy driving. I pulled the code and this time its P0011, Bank 1 Over Advanced. The last time it was the P000A, Bank 1 Slow Response.
> 
> ...


Did it blow the green seal on the N205? You may just need a new seal. They are replaceable.

Also you can bench test the N205 by jumping 12V on it and see if the actuator moves. 

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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Barn01 said:


> Did it blow the green seal on the N205? You may just need a new seal. They are replaceable.
> 
> Also you can bench test the N205 by jumping 12V on it and see if the actuator moves.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Is this the green seal you mentioned? The oil I found was coming from the connector (red arrow). The rest of the N205 was dry.










-RJM


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Loco38SUP said:


> Is this the green seal you mentioned? The oil I found was coming from the connector (red arrow). The rest of the N205 was dry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes that's the one. I just thought I'd mention it but it sounds like you have it under control now. 

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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Thanks for the info.

I thought maybe I could replace the seals and save some summer cash.

...it looks like my only option is a replacement. :banghead:

-RJM


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Hello. I haven't been on the forum lately or very much at all. But threads like this are always helpful.

I am still reading through this thread, but in case I get to the end and don't see an answer I want to ask why it seems like this ticking sound starts once the engine warms up? The more I've researched this problem based on forums, google searches and youtube videos/comments it seems like other people also hear the noise after the engine gets to an normal operating temperature. I haven't had a chance to open up the engine and check this tensioner but I am getting about 90% sure this is the source of my engine noise.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Hello. I haven't been on the forum lately or very much at all. But threads like this are always helpful.
> 
> I am still reading through this thread, but in case I get to the end and don't see an answer I want to ask why it seems like this ticking sound starts once the engine warms up? The more I've researched this problem based on forums, google searches and youtube videos/comments it seems like other people also hear the noise after the engine gets to an normal operating temperature. I haven't had a chance to open up the engine and check this tensioner but I am getting about 90% sure this is the source of my engine noise.


The noise is usually loud on cold start and while engine running hot. The seal on the tensioner blows so the thinner the oil, the worse the tensioner holds pressure. These tensioners don't have a one way barb so we are subjected to spring tension and hydrolic pressure. The spring tension is almost nothing so when the seal blows the the chain is free to slap. Also the sliders break and you get metal on metal and that's what really causes noise. 

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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Barn01 said:


> The noise is usually loud on cold start and while engine running hot. The seal on the tensioner blows so the thinner the oil, the worse the tensioner holds pressure. These tensioners don't have a one way barb so we are subjected to spring tension and hydrolic pressure. The spring tension is almost nothing so when the seal blows the the chain is free to slap. Also the sliders break and you get metal on metal and that's what really causes noise.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


^

This. But make sure the noise is indeed coming from the timing chain cover because there are a few other idiosyncratic noises that the FSI makes which are significantly pronounced when the car is well warmed up and oil thins out.


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Very true. I've had this car since it was new in '07. The sounds have gotten more noticeable at 180k mi. 

Is there a lot of oil that runs through the timing chain housing? At this same time I am also running down a oil leak. I changed the fuel pump and follower over the weekend and noticed so much oil/debris "mud" (mix of oil and dirt) on the area underneath this cam chain housing. Is this a cover/gasket that is prone to heavy leaking after so much time?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Very true. I've had this car since it was new in '07. The sounds have gotten more noticeable at 180k mi.
> 
> Is there a lot of oil that runs through the timing chain housing? At this same time I am also running down a oil leak. I changed the fuel pump and follower over the weekend and noticed so much oil/debris "mud" (mix of oil and dirt) on the area underneath this cam chain housing. Is this a cover/gasket that is prone to heavy leaking after so much time?


It's possible that the timing chain housing is leaking. Especially if it's been removed before. The other likely place is the vacuum pump housing. You can get a seal kit for it from RKX

https://www.rkxtech.com/collections/vacuum-pump-repair

Try the vacuum pump seal kit first since I found it to be a common failure point for oil leaks on the BPY.


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Very good. I'll save that link and have that kit ready to go. Saw a nice a la carte kit for the tensioner as well.
https://www.europaparts.com/cam-chain-tensioner-service-kit-2-0t-fsi.html

I finally got through the last 5 pages of this thread on my lunch break. Looks like this can get a bit rough and some bad surprises can be in store once we remove the cover and see how intact the tensioner is or isn't. After reading reading everything I'm not sure if I fully comprehend what I will find as far as the N205 seals. Is there anyway to know ahead of time which seals/rings I will have on my cars N205? I've seen posts here about plastic vs. metal rings. It sounds like if you pull this valve and it has one or the other then you have to replace them with the same material and not switch from plastic to metal. Is that correct? I would love to have a set ordered and ready for replacement at the time of service instead of being out of commission for a 2-3 more days.


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## Repny2dafullest (May 17, 2017)

I dont really know the answer to that but what I do know is that my engine 2.0t fsi bpy code had the ceramic ones. If that helps any, why do you need the rings ? if it's not broke dont fix. When I did this procedure I didn't break them until I started messing with them. since I live in tampa fl i have urotunning here locally i went and they got them the next day. I went and put them in a bag and could not find it when I needed them . So then I went to my local junk yard and got them for free. it is a painstaking process in removing and installing them. you cannot go fast, nor open them too much they will break. If you do to happen to need the 3 rings I have them for sale as I finally found the bag close to a year later,lol. I paid $70 official oem ones I will let them go for $50 and take a $20 loss. PM me if you'd like them. P.s. my local dealer wanted $120.00 it hurt just to pay $70 for them , but 120 is just ridiculous.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Very good. I'll save that link and have that kit ready to go. Saw a nice a la carte kit for the tensioner as well.
> https://www.europaparts.com/cam-chain-tensioner-service-kit-2-0t-fsi.html
> 
> I finally got through the last 5 pages of this thread on my lunch break. Looks like this can get a bit rough and some bad surprises can be in store once we remove the cover and see how intact the tensioner is or isn't. After reading reading everything I'm not sure if I fully comprehend what I will find as far as the N205 seals. Is there anyway to know ahead of time which seals/rings I will have on my cars N205? I've seen posts here about plastic vs. metal rings. It sounds like if you pull this valve and it has one or the other then you have to replace them with the same material and not switch from plastic to metal. Is that correct? I would love to have a set ordered and ready for replacement at the time of service instead of being out of commission for a 2-3 more days.


The job isn't too bad if you know the quirks and tricks. All are mentioned in this thread but there is some conflicting info as well.

As for the N205 seals the only thing you can do is order a set to have on hand from ECS Tuning. I also recommend the kit they sell for the chain and tensioner with bolts and gaskets. I'm not affiliated with them at all but it's a good kit at a reasonable price. I've used 3 of them now.

Don't worry if you have metal or ceramic seals on the N205. It doesn't matter because the only replacements you can buy are ceramic. If you have metal it's unlikely that they will break but it makes it hard to get the cover on and off because they make deeper groves in the VVT. If you have the ceramic at least one of them typically breaks and you'll be happy you have the spares.

If you're in Canada I can sell you my cam lock and poly drive. I don't think the shipping makes sense in the US. 

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Loco38SUP said:


> Here is the part number for reference.
> 
> - 06F198107A
> 
> ...


A bit late getting back but I finally took the car to have codes read and sure enough it came back P000A Camshaft Position Slow response Bank 1. 


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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

Htraitor said:


> Loco38SUP said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the part number for reference.
> ...


Ive been code free since replacing the N205 valve. Have you removed the connector to see if oil might be coming out of the electrical terminals? 

-RJM


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

No because I went to start her yesterday and the cel was off. 🤙🏽


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## e-goot (Jan 25, 2016)

Barn01 said:


> I just wanted to add to this thread again.
> 
> I'm in the process of doing a neighbours 07' A3 S-Line Euro Spec and noticed that his intake cam is different than my US spec premium. Instead of a peen mark on the sprocket that mine has, his has a hole and it's in a slightly different location. So if you have an index hole in the sprocket then you'll need to count the chain links slightly differently than how I specified in my previous post. The hole falls between a link instead of the peen falling on a link. So if you are counting from the hole then add half a link to the numbers I posted.
> 
> ...


A hole like this?









I’m guessing your neighbor didn’t have that crack feature you see on mine.
I Had code P0016, car was struggling to accelerate from a stop and would sometimes die. It looks like the sprocket cracked and relaxed the press fit with the cam shaft allowing it to slip?

I have the engine at TDC, marks on the timing belt side all match up, and here we have the intake cam not even close to being a mirror image of the exhaust side. 









I guess I have to buy a whole new cam now. 

More pics 


























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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Diving into the job this weekend. I have a lot done so far. I am into the chain housing and my tensioner was destroyed. I am having trouble rotating the inlet cam though. Is this supposed to be a very tough rotation? I have the sparkplug out. Does clockwise or counterclockwise matter? Seems like this will take several turns to get the notches in the cams to line up.


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Got it. I wouldn't have thought so, but it really felt like I was fighting compression even with the plugs out. I gave it a little more pressure and there was kind of a pop of air and I was able to turn the cams to the right position. I was worried there was some binding between valve and piston or something bad.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

e-goot said:


> A hole like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That crack is bad and your intake cam definitely needs replacing. Your notches look ok to me. As long as the lock tool fits while the chain is on and the timing belt mark still can line up is all that matters.

However since you now have to remove the cam girdle, you can align it all yourself. Just please count your links from the intake to the VVT after you loosen the poly drive and before you remove the VVT. This order is important because the VVT moves when you loosen the poly drive.

Good luck

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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Got it. I wouldn't have thought so, but it really felt like I was fighting compression even with the plugs out. I gave it a little more pressure and there was kind of a pop of air and I was able to turn the cams to the right position. I was worried there was some binding between valve and piston or something bad.


Yes the intake cam is hard to turn and it feels clunky. 

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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

Really clunky if any of your pistons are at TDC. Make sure you turn your crank off TDC or you will be driving your valves in to your pistons when you are turning the cam....


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

kjr6306 said:


> Really clunky if any of your pistons are at TDC. Make sure you turn your crank off TDC or you will be driving your valves in to your pistons when you are turning the cam....


That's a good point I forgot to make. For those that are turning a cam without a chain connected. Make sure none of your pistons are TDC. Easily done by sticking some straws or tie wrap down your spark plug pockets and rotating the engine by hand. 

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## e-goot (Jan 25, 2016)

Barn01 said:


> That crack is bad and your intake cam definitely needs replacing. Your notches look ok to me. As long as the lock tool fits while the chain is on and the timing belt mark still can line up is all that matters.
> 
> However since you now have to remove the cam girdle, you can align it all yourself. Just please count your links from the intake to the VVT after you loosen the poly drive and before you remove the VVT. This order is important because the VVT moves when you loosen the poly drive.
> 
> ...


Just to be sure...I’m counting links/rollers from the blind hole drilled on the inside of the cam adjuster:









To the drilled hole on the intake cam sprocket:









Thanks


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

I guess it is time to drill. The notches on the bolt break off almost right away. Pretty upset about that but can't do much now. To those who've had success drilling what size bits and which #/size extractor did you use? How far into the bolt do you think you drilled?

Update: drilled with a decent 18v ryobi drill about 1/4" or more into where the threads would be. Maybe got to a 1/2" 
Enough to a get an extractor started then used hand power of a wrench attached to the square base of the bit and used a cheater bar to get traction and start turning the bolt out. Not sure if the picture will post.


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

I got the parts replaced and everything put back together. I turned on the car and it was great. running smooth. But only for about a minute. Then it just slowly dropped RPM's and died. Now it wont start. I took off the chain housing and did find a little round metal stud. I wont be able to take off the exhaust cam sprocket till later tonight after work. But, I think this little metal piece is the tiny metal stud that lines up on the back of the sprocket. Any ideas on how this could break and could lead to my car not starting at all now?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> I got the parts replaced and everything put back together. I turned on the car and it was great. running smooth. But only for about a minute. Then it just slowly dropped RPM's and died. Now it wont start. I took off the chain housing and did find a little round metal stud. I wont be able to take off the exhaust cam sprocket till later tonight after work. But, I think this little metal piece is the tiny metal stud that lines up on the back of the sprocket. Any ideas on how this could break and could lead to my car not starting at all now?


Yep it sounds like the alignment key on the VVT. I've seen them break and usually it's due to a chain break that locks up the cam. However it's possible since you had the VVT off that you didn't torque it enough or it wasn't flush to the cam face when you put it back on. It's even possible that you had too much oil or lube between the cam face and the VVT. You should always use brake cleaner on both parts before mating them together.

So here's the bad news. You can't really put a new key on. It looks like you can by using the open hole opposite the original key and securing a sawed off drill bit but honestly that's a disaster waiting to happen. I've tried it and it's sketching as hell so I pulled it back off without ever turning on the car. The answer is to get yourself a GOOD VVT. Either used or new but get one that has never been repaired. I suggest either a local wrecker or trusted ebay member. Make sure the engine it came from didn't have an engine failure!


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Barn01 said:


> Yep it sounds like the alignment key on the VVT. I've seen them break and usually it's due to a chain break that locks up the cam. However it's possible since you had the VVT off that you didn't torque it enough or it wasn't flush to the cam face when you put it back on. It's even possible that you had too much oil or lube between the cam face and the VVT. You should always use brake cleaner on both parts before mating them together.
> 
> So here's the bad news. You can't really put a new key on. It looks like you can by using the open hole opposite the original key and securing a sawed off drill bit but honestly that's a disaster waiting to happen. I've tried it and it's sketching as hell so I pulled it back off without ever turning on the car. The answer is to get yourself a GOOD VVT. Either used or new but get one that has never been repaired. I suggest either a local wrecker or trusted ebay member. Make sure the engine it came from didn't have an engine failure!



Thanks. So what does that do to timing/the car running or not running when that part breaks. Are there some other symptoms of this part failing? If that key is broken off then does the exhaust cam get out of time with the intake?

I shop from partsgeek a lot and they have a reasonable replacement aftermarket sprocket... then the OEM ones for about $460. Anyone ever try one that nots OEM?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Thanks. So what does that do to timing/the car running or not running when that part breaks. Are there some other symptoms of this part failing? If that key is broken off then does the exhaust cam get out of time with the intake?
> 
> I shop from partsgeek a lot and they have a reasonable replacement aftermarket sprocket... then the OEM ones for about $460. Anyone ever try one that nots OEM?


Is your chain still in tack?

Put your cam lock tool in place and check the timing mark at the top of the timing belt cover. (some covers have a 1/4 turn peekaboo cover to make it easy with a mirror and light) If you can position the belt mark while the cam tool is in place then you are fine for timing. Put the new VVT in place with the same link count that you had after loosening the poly drive bolt and you should be good to go.

Note: You will need to compress the chain tensioner (channel locks) and pin it in place. I'm not sure how new your chain tensioner is but you should replace it if you have not done so. Also if your tensioner is in good working order then you shouldn't have to worry about any skipped teeth between VVT and intake cam. 

Note2: The new VVT may not be in the same position as the one you take off. You should put the new one on and tighten it (not full beans because that would use up the poly drive bolt) then when you untighten it the VVT should slip so that the sprocket is in the same position as the one you pulled off. If the VVT is in the wrong position when you put it back together there is a very good chance that you'll be one tooth off. So either do as above or if you can move it by hand then that's ok too. Just make sure you know it's in the same position as the old one before putting the chain on and counting links.


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Barn01 said:


> Is your chain still in tack?
> 
> Put your cam lock tool in place and check the timing mark at the top of the timing belt cover. (some covers have a 1/4 turn peekaboo cover to make it easy with a mirror and light) If you can position the belt mark while the cam tool is in place then you are fine for timing. Put the new VVT in place with the same link count that you had after loosening the poly drive bolt and you should be good to go.
> 
> ...


Understood. Thank you very much. The chain is good, the tensioner is good as well. This all came about as I completed the repair yesterday. I wish I did have the better designed timing belt cover that is two pieces so I can do a good check. But I might be able to slip a mirror into the upper area and find the timing mark.


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

I need to make sure I understand a few more things if you guys don't mind helping me out a little more. The crank and timing belt connect to the exhaust cam right? So is there a likely chance the the exhaust cam was being driven and the intake cam not being driven because the adjuster sprocket pin was sheared off? The bolt is still very tightly held but I don't know if that keeps the sprocket in the right position or it if the pin that takes most of that force. I can try to elaborate but I hope that makes sense. 

I found out I do need one of the 3 rings for the VVT. one is broken in the timing chain casing. I got the link to the ones for sale from ECS but it says they are not fitted for the GTI MKV. It does say the A3 2.0T. There isn't a different is there. Same FSI/BPY engine for that year isn't it? https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine...amshaft-adjuster-housing-seal-set/06f198107a/


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> I need to make sure I understand a few more things if you guys don't mind helping me out a little more. The crank and timing belt connect to the exhaust cam right? So is there a likely chance the the exhaust cam was being driven and the intake cam not being driven because the adjuster sprocket pin was sheared off? The bolt is still very tightly held but I don't know if that keeps the sprocket in the right position or it if the pin that takes most of that force. I can try to elaborate but I hope that makes sense.
> 
> I found out I do need one of the 3 rings for the VVT. one is broken in the timing chain casing. I got the link to the ones for sale from ECS but it says they are not fitted for the GTI MKV. It does say the A3 2.0T. There isn't a different is there. Same BPY engine for that year isn't it? https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine...amshaft-adjuster-housing-seal-set/06f198107a/


Q: The crank and timing belt connect to the exhaust cam right?
A:Yes the crank timing belt is connected to the exhaust cam.

Q:So is there a likely chance the the exhaust cam was being driven and the intake cam not being driven because the adjuster sprocket pin was sheared off?
A: If the chain was in tact and the tensioner is good then MAYBE. It is possible the exhaust cam did spin without the VVT and intake in the correct location. Actually if it is the VVT pin that's sheared then you should assume this is what happened. That's why I said to make sure you have everything on time, you need to use the belt mark AND the cam lock tool. It's also possible that a chain can break and lock up a VVT from rotating. The energy in the engine doesn't stop it right away. It can actually rotate the sprocket assy on the timing belt cam sleeve. You would know because you fit the cam lock tool in place and can't move the engine to match the timing belt mark.

Q:The bolt is still very tightly held but I don't know if that keeps the sprocket in the right position or it if the pin that takes most of that force.
A: The two faces clamped tight together (dry with no lube) should create enough surface tension to keep both pieces mated together, especially once the engine is hot. However the locating / shear pin also takes some of the force. Without it you really are risking movement especially when cold.

Q: There isn't a different is there. Same BPY engine for that year isn't it?
A: It should be the same part. I wasn't able to get them from the dealer and I've found no other source for them. I say get it and give it a try. Just be very careful putting them on. It takes a delicate hand and a bit of patients to not break them. Also make sure the cover goes back on straight and think about those seals as you put it on. Wiggles only, no tapping with a hammer.


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Tonight or tomorrow I will have time out in the garage again to remove the valve cover and go further into checking the time. With the lock tool in place can the crank be turned very much to try and line up the marking?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Tonight or tomorrow I will have time out in the garage again to remove the valve cover and go further into checking the time. With the lock tool in place can the crank be turned very much to try and line up the marking?


The exhaust cam has a bit of play when the tool is in. My advise is to get the belt mark on first and then see if the cam tool drops in. The intake cam may take a little fiddling due to the VVT position but the exhaust should drop right in. 

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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Took the valve cover off and saw something bad and interesting. Like I mentioned before the chain is good and the tensioner are good, and when I rotate the intake cam I can see now that the exhaust cam is not moving at all. Only the VVT adjuster moves in time with the intake cam's rotation. 

The the bolt holding the adjuster onto the shafts is not as tight as I thought I guess. 

I have the timing belt top cover off. TDC (if this were the face of a clock) is "6 hours" away from the hash mark on the gear. I guess I've lost my socket that fits the 19mm bolt at the crank so I won't be turning much tonight. Not even sure if I should turn tell crank even if I could. 

Sorry I've hijacked this thread.

Edited: 19mm not 13mm


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Took the valve cover off and saw something bad and interesting. Like I mentioned before the chain is good and the tensioner are good, and when I rotate the intake cam I can see now that the exhaust cam is not moving at all. Only the VVT adjuster moves in time with the intake cam's rotation.
> 
> The the bolt holding the adjuster onto the shafts is not as tight as I thought I guess.
> 
> ...


Pull the plugs and rotate the motor to get the belt on the mark. Until then there's nothing much you can do.


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

On Friday I plan to have my new parts in to start back on this job. I obviously have to address the bigger problem I brought up before. The Exhaust cam does not move when I move the intake cam since the Adjuster broke. So there is likely a timing problem at the very least. 

The exhaust cam should still be in time with the crank since they are both connected. But the intake came is likely out of time.

I still have my markings on on the intake cam (the factory indention on the gear matched to my marking on the tooth above it and lined up to a mark above the gear on the head.)

I want to try to make sure I have the correct timing. Any advice given this information and assuming the timing was correct before I started this project?


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Barn01 said:


> Put it in neutral, pull the plugs and rotate the motor to get the belt on the mark. Until then there's nothing much you can do.



Ok. I just wrote out a post before I saw this. If I rotate at the crank is there a risk of the intake cam being out of time and having a valve pressed in as a piston comes up? Obviously the exhaust side should be moving in sync.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> On Friday I plan to have my new parts in to start back on this job. I obviously have to address the bigger problem I brought up before. The Exhaust cam does not move when I move the intake cam since the Adjuster broke. So there is likely a timing problem at the very least.
> 
> The exhaust cam should still be in time with the crank since they are both connected. But the intake came is likely out of time.
> 
> ...


I've said it before, get the belt on time, the lock tool in place and then tighten the poly drive bolt. When you loosen the bolt the VVT should likely move to the full CCW position. Then count the links between intake and VVT and when you put the new VVT on make sure that it is also in the full CCW position. Put the chain on with the same link count and you should be good to go.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Ok. I just wrote out a post before I saw this. If I rotate at the crank is there a risk of the intake cam being out of time and having a valve pressed in as a piston comes up? Obviously the exhaust side should be moving in sync.


You won't bend a valve if you rotate by hand. I have yet to see a bent valve on a BPY and I've repaired a VVT on an engine that had a chain break at 80km/h.

I suppose you could look at the cam lobes and put the cams in a position that don't have any lobes at full extension. Then you know for sure that you can rotate the motor safely.


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

I have seen multiple heads with bent valves. If your cam chain or timing belt breaks you are almost guaranteed bent valves.....


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

I am very happy that the belt and chain are in place and tension is maintained. I will be getting the right socket tonight hopefully so I can try turning at the crank and line up TDC. I hope going through this is somewhat helpful and I will keep posting the progress.


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## e-goot (Jan 25, 2016)

Got the new intake cam installed, didn’t bother with a cam lock since it wouldn’t fit anyway. I removed the cam girdle, three tensioner bolts, then the tensioner, and finally the failed cam.
Here it is

















Installed the new cam and tensioner. This one didn’t have the hole, just a punch mark.










Quintuple checked link count before and after. Visually looks good.









I spent an hour last night scraping crusty gasket remnants with some plastic spudgers I had in an iPhone screen repair kit. 









Heading to Autozone for some Permatex right stuff, so hopefully I’ll be up and running today. 




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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Moving forward. 

Rotated to TDC










Had to rotate the intake about a half turn clockwise to match the cam`s notches. And the factory mark on the cams lined up to my mark from the beginning of the project. 










Factory mark lined up to my mark on the head. It's off by a tooth right now. 










That's about all I'm doing tonight. Let me know how this looks so far to you all or if I've taken a mistep.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Moving forward.
> 
> Rotated to TDC
> 
> ...


You're on your way. Just think it through as you go. That intake tooth might not be off. There usually some play on the intake side and you likely didn't have it lined up to the belt mark perfectly the first time. Plus you still don't know what position the VVT is in and that will effect the intake position. 

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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

I struggled a bit more to get the VVT back into position. But now I fully understand why VW leaves some play on the intake side. It helps to be able to rotate it forward to turn the VVT enough to pop into that notch. I tried to use that to my advantage. Set the intake back one tooth then did my best to position the VVT where I'd have to move the intake forward one tooth so the VVT pin and the notch on the cam line up and it would be all positioned right. 

It was harder to get the adjuster on this time compared to the first time. Could be since it is an aftermarket part or it could be because I did it wrong the first time and never had the VVT adjuster fully set into place (which I'm willing to bet on now)

Any reason not to turn the engine over twice by hand to see how it feels?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> I struggled a bit more to get the VVT back into position. But now I fully understand why VW leaves some play on the intake side. It helps to be able to rotate it forward to turn the VVT enough to pop into that notch. I tried to use that to my advantage. Set the intake back one tooth then did my best to position the VVT where I'd have to move the intake one forward one tooth so the VVT pin and the notch on the cam line up and it would be all positioned right.
> 
> It was harder to get the adjuster on this time compared to the first time. Could be since it is an aftermarket part or it could be because I did it wrong the first time and never had the VVT adjuster fully set into place (which I'm will to bet on now)
> 
> Any reason not to turn the engine over twice by hand to see how it feels?


Turn it by hand is fine. Then make sure that poly drive is tight!

If you want to check for bent valves you should do a compression check after you get everything back together (I would just to put my mind at ease, it's a 5-10min job since you already have the plugs out). If it passes that then start that baby up!


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

That's a good idea. I'm waiting for new spark plugs to arrive anyway. Someone said 170psi is what I should look for. Does that sound right?


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> That's a good idea. I'm waiting for new spark plugs to arrive anyway. Someone said 170psi is what I should look for. Does that sound right?


Don't quote my numbers because I'm kind of going by memory.

I believe:
150psi +/- 5% is min spec
200 +/- 10% is norm

The last one I did was an S-Line FSI and got 200-205 across all 4. (At least that's what I think I remember)


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## GTI_Fast07 (Feb 18, 2010)

Looks like everything is in order and the car is back up and running. Along with so many others who have completed this fix, I am amazed how the car sounds again. It's tough to remember it being this quiet and smooth without the loud clicking and clacking. 

I had some trouble obviously but I'd say for any reasonable skilled person this is a good DIY project. Although, I am almost lost it when I got my car put back together and it still wouldn't start. Finally noticed that after putting back in the sparkplugs I had skipped right to putting the engine cover/intake back on. I had forgotten to hook back in the coil packs! But everything is doing great. Thank you for all the help.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

GTI_Fast07 said:


> Looks like everything is in order and the car is back up and running. Along with so many others who have completed this fix, I am amazed how the car sounds again. It's tough to remember it being this quiet and smooth without the loud clicking and clacking.
> 
> I had some trouble obviously but I'd say for any reasonable skilled person this is a good DIY project. Although, I am almost lost it when I got my car put back together and it still wouldn't start. Finally noticed that after putting back in the sparkplugs I had skipped right to putting the engine cover/intake back on. I had forgotten to hook back in the coil packs! But everything is doing great. Thank you for all the help.


Good stuff. It's too bad that you ran into so much trouble but as you said it's a good DIY project for most handy people. Ya amazing how quite the car is after it's done.

Have you done intake valve cleaning yet? That's another good DIY 
When you start getting #2 (or other) misfire codes there's a good chance it's carbon.


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## Loco38SUP (Jun 10, 2018)

e-goot said:


> Got the new intake cam installed, didn’t bother with a cam lock since it wouldn’t fit anyway. I removed the cam girdle, three tensioner bolts, then the tensioner, and finally the failed cam.
> Here it is
> 
> 
> ...


VW sells a specific sealant for the cam girdle. It cures in the absence of oxygen. Standard permatex will not hold up here. Be ready to pay a left nut for it. $$$

-RJM


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## e-goot (Jan 25, 2016)

I got everything assembled last week and the car runs great. Also, as everyone else has stated, the engine sounds great after the tensioner swap. 




Loco38SUP said:


> VW sells a specific sealant for the cam girdle. It cures in the absence of oxygen. Standard permatex will not hold up here. Be ready to pay a left nut for it. $$$
> 
> -RJM


I used Permatex grey one minute gasket, PN 25238, which seems to be working fine. If I have any issues I'll switch to the Permatex anaerobic version.


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Well... I suppose I should have expected it but the Jetta started bucking while on the interstate the other day. The wife took it to a local reputable shop and the diagnostic turned up that I’ll need to replace the intake cam and HPFP. If I have them do the work it’ll cost around $1200. 
🤢🤢🤢
Want to throw up. That’s about 1/3 the value of the car. I’m thinking of doing it myself just not sure when I’ll have time. 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> Well... I suppose I should have expected it but the Jetta started bucking while on the interstate the other day. The wife took it to a local reputable shop and the diagnostic turned up that I’ll need to replace the intake cam and HPFP. If I have them do the work it’ll cost around $1200.
> 🤢🤢🤢
> Want to throw up. That’s about 1/3 the value of the car. I’m thinking of doing it myself just not sure when I’ll have time.
> 
> ...


So the cam follower failed? Try to find used parts from a wrecker or Ebay. Also I've seen garages tell costumers that they need a cam from a follower fail and the cam actually looked ok. If possible take a clear pic of the follower lobe and post it. Also let us know if you can feel any scratches on it. How many miles on the car? It's a BPY I assume?

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Barn01 said:


> So the cam follower failed? Try to find used parts from a wrecker or Ebay. Also I've seen garages tell costumers that they need a cam from a follower fail and the cam actually looked ok. If possible take a clear pic of the follower lobe and post it. Also let us know if you can feel any scratches on it. How many miles on the car? It's a BPY I assume?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


It is a BPY 200K+ I’ll see about pictures when I can get a chance to work on it. 


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Ok so here are some pics as requested 

Intake cam lobe









HPFP and Cam Follower









The scaring on the housing in the picture below was already there when I first cracked open the cam chain housing to change the tensioner.









In this latest installment I’ll be replacing the vacuum pump and VVT solenoid. 


















Along with the cam follower for good measure. 










If I can return the cam and HPFP replacement kit I purchased from ECS that would save me $700 which I could use right now, not to mention the time it would take to R&R them. 

Thoughts? 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> Ok so here are some pics as requested
> 
> Intake cam lobe
> 
> ...


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Barn01 said:


> Does the cam lobe feel like it's damaged? If it's smooth and the lobe height is about the same as the new one then you could just polish it with increasing grit paper until shiny. Basically you don't want it to wear down the follower again.
> 
> As for the hpfp, it does not look too bad. Keep an eye on your follower ever 2 years and you should be ok.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


It doesn’t feel damaged at all. I’ll try polishing very carefully! 🤞🏽
I changed the pump a couple of years ago I think, but I replace the follower at least a couple times a year because I put a lot of miles on the car. 


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Ok so check engine light came on again. Took it to have codes read and gotten following:

P000A - Intake Camshaft position slow response.

P0089 - Fuel pressure regulator 1 performance. 

Thoughts. 


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> Ok so check engine light came on again. Took it to have codes read and gotten following:
> 
> P000A - Intake Camshaft position slow response.
> 
> ...


The p000a could be a broken seal on the N205. They can break when removing or installing the timing chain cover.

The p0089 could be a bad connection at the hpfp. Since you would have had to remove it during your recent repair.

You really should buy an ODB11
https://obdeleven.com/en/

Then you could monitor rail pressure and see if it's real. 

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

I replaced the N205 solenoid when I pulled the pump last week. 
Wife was driving it and she said it bucked, jerked, then stalled out. WTF man this sh*t is really getting annoying. I drove it again tonight and nada, zero, zilch... still has CEL present but not showing any performance impact. 

I suppose I’ll have to purchase an OBD11 next. More money, go figure. 🤦🏽*♂

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

OBD Eleven coming in tomorrow so I’ll hopefully have some data to share. 


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## New2mkv (Sep 3, 2018)

I'm going to be doing the chain, tensioner and cam gear this weekend.


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## New2mkv (Sep 3, 2018)

I think he is talking about the seals that are on the cover itself and fit inside the cam adjuster. They work with the N205 but are not the N205. I can't get a picture to attach or I'd show you. Just search Cam adjuster oil rings.





Htraitor said:


> I replaced the N205 solenoid when I pulled the pump last week.
> Wife was driving it and she said it bucked, jerked, then stalled out. WTF man this sh*t is really getting annoying. I drove it again tonight and nada, zero, zilch... still has CEL present but not showing any performance impact.
> 
> I suppose I’ll have to purchase an OBD11 next. More money, go figure. 🤦🏽*♂
> ...


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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Gotcha... so the OBD Eleven readout is as follows. 

Camshaft Position (Bank 1) Timing over advanced or System Performance 
P0011
Status Intermittent 
Priority 2
——————
Low Fuel Pressure regulation Fuel pressure outside specification
Fault code: P310B
Status: intermittent 
Priority 2
——————
Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit
Fault Code: P0100
Status: intermittent 
Priority 2
——————
Fuel Pressure Regulator 2 Control Circuit
Fault code: P2294
Status: intermittent 
Priority 2
——————
Fuel Rail/System Pressure - Too Low
Fault code: P0087
Status: intermittent 
Priority 2


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Htraitor said:


> Gotcha... so the OBD Eleven readout is as follows.
> 
> Camshaft Position (Bank 1) Timing over advanced or System Performance
> P0011
> ...


There are so many Errors here you may way to start your own thread.

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## Htraitor (Jun 28, 2004)

Barn01 said:


> There are so many Errors here you may way to start your own thread.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Lol!!! Ladies and gentlemen... that comment sums up the day I’ve had.


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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

Does anyone have a video of ho the car sounds if the chain needs to be done?

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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

APURPLEKING said:


> Does anyone have a video of ho the car sounds if the chain needs to be done?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


It really varies. Mine sounded like a diesel but it was extremely bad. The best thing to do is pull off the vacuum pump and look at the tensioner. You be able to see if your sliders are still in tack and how much extension and even tension if you are careful. 

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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

Is there a link how to actually set the timing? Chain link count, marks, etc? The cam lock tool seems to have quite some slop. How many links between the sprockets?


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## VdubB6Passat (Dec 7, 2018)

*Completed and then some...*

HUGE thanks for this DIY! Did the job a few months ago. Had to change out my high pressure fuel pump too as the cam follower was toast and the pump shaft was getting eaten. I had already done the Timing Chain, water pump and tensioners on the other side of the engine thinking that was the issue, but made no difference. Stumbled on this forum, and popped the vacuum cover, then cam chain cover off to see that my top rail was in two pieces, my tensioner had worn a groove in the chain, and there were metal shavings everywhere.

Removed and cleaned everything out carefully and put it all back together, sounds better than ever! And been going strong for 3 months (5k miles). Did an oil change this weekend (I had put a magnetic drain plug in), and collected one small piece of metal, but nothing disastrous.

I've got the tools (pictured) available to sell if anyone needs them. Paid $150 for them. Obviously used only once. Sell for $100, including shipping anywhere in the US, just PM me.














































TOOLS: ($100 shipped in the continental US)


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*timing belt tensioner not indexing again?*

Did timing belt and other maintenance work. Installed new timing belt tensioner. Tensioned until the mark is in the 'window'. Worked fine. 
Had to remove sprocket and tensioner (forgot to install new cam seal). 
Put everything back on, but now the belt tensioner does NOT 'index' correctly anymore. The 'window' is in a different position now, and when I move the excenter with the allen in the tensioner, I can barely put enough tension on the belt so it feels tight (if turning more, is gets loose again). 

Did the tensioner 'snap back'? 

The same happens when I try to put the (good) old tensioner on. 

Can I do something wrong when installing the tensioner (onto the mounting bolt, with the 'flag' going into the round window in the block)?


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

*Cam timing check with VAGcom VCDS*

How can I check timing with VCDS? 
What measuring blocks show what values? 
What are the correct values/range?


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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

Well I bought all the stuff to do this.... not sure my car def needs it or not. She is a little loud but nothing obnoxious. 

I just REALLY don't wanna have that cam tensioner bolt strip out on me. :/

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## stromam (Jan 7, 2019)

*Specialty Tools Available?*

Getting ready to dive into this job and I was wondering if anyone had a set of tools laying around they could either loan me or i could buy and resell like the below thread (I'm posting there as well):

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6105881-Specialty-Tool-Program

Please PM me if you can help a fella out!

Thanks.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

APURPLEKING said:


> Well I bought all the stuff to do this.... not sure my car def needs it or not. She is a little loud but nothing obnoxious.
> 
> I just REALLY don't wanna have that cam tensioner bolt strip out on me. :/
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


Just happened to me. 
I removed the cam and had a machine shop get it out. 
It’s not as hard as it’s made out to be. 

I guess the “hard” part is that you’re now removing the cam, which requires touching the timing belt side, and removing “the cage”. 
But, it’s not the end of the world.


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## jverheul (Jan 10, 2002)

I am about to dive into this. Anyone have tools for sale, or loan?


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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

So my car definitely need this...









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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Finally got around to removing the cam adjuster bolt tonight. People aren't joking when they say it's tight. My substantial impact gun wasn't able to budge it. I ended up using a breaker bar and slightly twisted the VW poly drive bit before it broke loose:










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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Glad it worked for ya, I wasn’t so lucky when I did mine. Had to drill it out. 

Did ya have to change your pants after you initially felt something start to twist? If you’re like me I’d instantly assume the actual bolt head was stripping before I assume the poly drive was moving.


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> Glad it worked for ya, I wasn’t so lucky when I did mine. Had to drill it out.
> 
> Did ya have to change your pants after you initially felt something start to twist? If you’re like me I’d instantly assume the actual bolt head was stripping before I assume the poly drive was moving.


I thought I had broken the bolt. Luckily no, it turned right out. The amount of torque required to break it loose, though...

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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

When I broke that cam adjuster bolt free my whole motor rocked like crazy!

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Discovered this tiny oil inlet filter before I reassembled the timing cover:









It goes in the larger hole here:









I used a small flat blade screwdriver to extract it, then used a tiny Torx screwdriver to dig out the gunk in the bottom. Tapped it out multiple times on top of my toolbox until trash stopped coming out. Really happy I found and cleaned this. Would prefer to just buy a new screen, but I don't believe they are available separate from the entire cover.









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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Does anyone know where this bolt goes? I had it together with the timing cover and vacuum pump boots, but I can not see anywhere that it should go. It's been quite a while since I took this apart.










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## scottgti (Sep 28, 2007)

Sandman333 said:


> Does anyone know where this bolt goes? I had it together with the timing cover and vacuum pump boots, but I can not see anywhere that it should go. It's been quite a while since I took this apart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See photo.


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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

It goes on the vac pump, holds the wire loom bracket to it by the coolant flange.

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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

I just finished this job today and I didn't know about that little filter to clean out. Sad face 

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Thanks for the replies. I was afraid that's where it went. I have one of the regular Torx bolts there now, which means I missed one of the bolt holes in the cover somewhere. Pretty sure it's not the blind one at the bottom, but obviously it's still hard to see. Hopefully I don't have to disassemble too much to find it.

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

I count 9 bolts attaching the timing cam cover, not including the three that attach the vacuum pump to the cover, and I have one left over that I cannot figure out where it goes.

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Are the bolts that connect the timing belt cover to the valve cover on the opposite side the same as the bolts that attach the timing chain cover?

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Just looked at a picture of the timing chain cover gasket. There are only 7 holes for bolts. I still count 9 that are installed, and have one left over. WTF? I really do not want to pull this apart again. 

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## scottgti (Sep 28, 2007)

Sandman333 said:


> Just looked at a picture of the timing chain cover gasket. There are only 7 holes for bolts. I still count 9 that are installed, and have one left over. WTF? I really do not want to pull this apart again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


What about the bolt that holds the fuel line on? There is a pic in the OP that shows it and the one from your photo.


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

scottgti said:


> What about the bolt that holds the fuel line on? There is a pic in the OP that shows it and the one from your photo.


I'm not sure what you mean.

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## scottgti (Sep 28, 2007)

Sandman333 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Photo from the OP. Green arrow pointing at bolt I'm talking about.


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

scottgti said:


> Photo from the OP. Green arrow pointing at bolt I'm talking about.


That's a coolant line. It's a triple square bolt. One is there and another on top. I have both of those installed already.

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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

2 bolts that match the timing cover bolts are for the 2 on the side of the valve cover 

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

APURPLEKING said:


> 2 bolts that match the timing cover bolts are for the 2 on the side of the valve cover
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


You mean for the timing belt side, opposite the VVT timing chain cover? One of the bolts I put in the timing chain cover toward the firewall side felt like it wasn't really securing anything, even though it went into threads that matched. That would give me two if I removed that one. Got a picture of the two top bolts that secure the timing belt cover to valve cover?

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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

There are two bolt on the VC that hold on the timing belt cover, those 2 bolts look like the bolts for the cam chain cover. Don't have a pic but 7 bolts are for the cam chain cover, and 2 are for the VC. Then 2 triple square bolts hold that metal line on to the top of the cam chain cover. Then the big headed torx holds the metal bracket for the wire loom.

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

APURPLEKING said:


> There are two bolt on the VC that hold on the timing belt cover, those 2 bolts look like the bolts for the cam chain cover. Don't have a pic but 7 bolts are for the cam chain cover, and 2 are for the VC. Then 2 triple square bolts hold that metal line on to the top of the cam chain cover. Then the big headed torx holds the metal bracket for the wire loom.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


Thanks, that's what I needed. Hope to get this buttoned up and running tonight.

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Does anyone know which relay or fuse powers the low-pressure fuel pump? I want to turn the engine over without starting it in order to build oil pressure after completing this timing chain service and rebuilding the turbo. I know I've pulled either a fuse or relay in the power distribution box next to the battery under the hood in the past in order to disable the low-pressure pump, but I can no longer find reliable information anywhere as to which one it is.

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

I tried this link and all of the information here is wrong. https://www.justanswer.com/vw-volks...use-box-diagrams-2008-passat-please-help.html


F27 is not used on fuse panel B (engine bay) on my car. I pulled F10 in Fuse panel D. The pump still ran when I opened the door. F34 Fuse panel D (passenger side dash) is not used on my car. 



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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

You could just disconnect the wire harness on the pump, no?

In the trunk under the black cap...

A bit of more work but should work

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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

APURPLEKING said:


> You could just disconnect the wire harness on the pump, no?
> 
> In the trunk under the black cap...
> 
> ...



Works just fine, of course. But then ya gotta run all that fuel out that’s in the lines. On my VR 3.6 it was 10-15 mins of idling. 
But I knew it wouldn’t spray!


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

Thought I had it figured out- Fuse 22 in panel C (driver side dash panel). Car cranked for about 5 seconds and then barely sputtered to life for about two seconds. Cranked for another 3 and then started and ran. No horrible rattling sounds, so it must have built oil pressure quickly. That's a good sign considering it had a dry oil filter from the oil change I did at the same time. Happy to report that it runs very quiet- sounds exactly like it did when new. PLENTY of power with the APR Stage I tune.

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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

I think access to the fuel pump is under the rear seat, no?

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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Sandman333 said:


> I think access to the fuel pump is under the rear seat, no?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


It is on the VR. Passenger side. 


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

nater said:


> It is on the VR. Passenger side.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


VR?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Sandman333 said:


> VR?


VR6. Just saying that on the VR6 the fuel tank is in that spot. Should be the same. 
As a matter of fact, I remember my BPY Passat fuel tank being there as well. 
Sorry for the confusion


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## NitrousOxide (Dec 5, 2017)

btrux0611 said:


> And I believe it is 19 teeth! From intake cam notch to exhaust back side notch. 19 teeth or half links across the top.


I've attempted this job before reading this. I'm not using a cam locking tool, since I see numerous posts saying that it does not work. What I'm missing out on is the count.
Are you saying that it is 19 half links BETWEEN the two manufactured notches on each cam sprocket? I keep losing count as I didn't properly mark the exhaust cam notch mark. My timing belt broke, hence I had both cams removed (hence the avoidance of the cam locking tool).


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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

When did this on my car it seemed like the cam lock held the exhaust cam in place while removing the tensioner bolt.

A breaker bar + a pipe to break it loose.

I don't see how that wouldn't move without the cam lock tool.

But that's just my thinking....

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## NitrousOxide (Dec 5, 2017)

The timing belt on my car broke. I removed the head and cams, and replaced all 16 valves. Since I have both cams out, I wouldn't need the cam locking tool. I would only need to connect the 2 cams together with the chain before placing them together back on the head. I was only inquiring about the number of links required between the two marks. I don't want to unbolt the VVT adjuster.


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## NitrousOxide (Dec 5, 2017)

I messed something up somewhere. 

https://youtu.be/mI3DyezPdhs


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

My replacement chain was just as tight as yours....no issue. The tensioner is there for when and if the chain stretches. As far as your links are concerned, there is a simple was to tell if your cams are timed correctly. Just put cylinder one on TDC and look at the cylinder 4 intake and exhaust cam lobes. If they are tin exactly the same position then you are timed correctly. I take a straight edge and lay it on the top of the head and measure the distance from the highest point of the lobes to the straight edge. They should be very close to one another. If they aren't, you are one tooth off....


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## NitrousOxide (Dec 5, 2017)

kjr6306 said:


> Just put cylinder one on TDC and look at the cylinder 4 intake and exhaust cam lobes. If they are tin exactly the same position then you are timed correctly. I take a straight edge and lay it on the top of the head and measure the distance from the highest point of the lobes to the straight edge. They should be very close to one another. If they aren't, you are one tooth off....


This is how I arrived at getting 20-half-links in the first place.
both the old and new chains are the same. I got the 3 tensioner holes to line up now. What I want to verify is that the count goes something like this: you have the manufactured notch on the intake camshaft sprocket, 20 half-links in between, then the manufactured notch on the VVT camshaft sprocket?﻿

I was concerned because I saw an earlier post that said 19 half-links (between both marks)


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

I dont count the links. I just put the engine at TDC and get the cams to match and I know I am good.


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## NitrousOxide (Dec 5, 2017)

kjr6306 said:


> I dont count the links. I just put the engine at TDC and get the cams to match and I know I am good.


My cams for cylinder #4 match, but my car idles lumpy. I know I have an exhaust leak after the secondary oxygen sensor due to a cheap vband clamp for my aftermarket exhaust. Would a compression test be the best way to tell if I'm off by a tooth? 

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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

NitrousOxide said:


> My cams for cylinder #4 match, but my car idles lumpy. I know I have an exhaust leak after the secondary oxygen sensor due to a cheap vband clamp for my aftermarket exhaust. Would a compression test be the best way to tell if I'm off by a tooth?


No. VAGcom will tell (on the older 1.8T and 2.7T etc, it was blocks 090-093 for the timing), but not sure which blocks.


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## GTIdownunder (Sep 24, 2017)

*Tool used to extract polydrive bolt?*

Any ideas what screw extractor tool the mechanic used to get the bolt out?


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## fool (Mar 19, 2002)

Sheared the head off the polydrive bolt or just stripped the teeth? I stripped the teeth off mine so I just removed the intake cam and finagled everything out and back in. Added work of removing the cam cage but not that bad. Didn’t want to risk trying to drill the bolt out and damaging something else.


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## GTIdownunder (Sep 24, 2017)

Just stripped the teeth. Yeah not sure what is more of a pain, drilling out the cam adjuster bolt or doing it your way. Some people seem to have done alright drilling the bolt out but mine is in there fkn tight..


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## Heromanni (Sep 4, 2012)

Hello all

I Have a loud rattling noise coming from engine, I was thinking it is the cam chain tensioner, although it has been replaced 4 years ago. Is this normal you see on the video? Should there be pre tension, some kind of spring pushing tensioner upwards before oil pressure comes in? This video is after I pushed the tensioner down by hand, there was oil inside. 

Also during higher revs the sound goes off, probably meaning that there is no enough pressure in tensioner to keep the chain tight during idle?

https://youtu.be/J2HqgETef5I

Lähetetty minun ONEPLUS A6003 laitteesta Tapatalkilla


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## NitrousOxide (Dec 5, 2017)

That looks normal to me since you need actual oil pressure to maintain the tension. 

Are the two plastic surfaces showing signs of wear?

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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

Heromanni said:


> Hello all
> 
> I Have a loud rattling noise coming from engine, I was thinking it is the cam chain tensioner, although it has been replaced 4 years ago. Is this normal you see on the video? Should there be pre tension, some kind of spring pushing tensioner upwards before oil pressure comes in? This video is after I pushed the tensioner down by hand, there was oil inside.
> 
> ...


If you can easily push down the tensioner after its been pressurized by oil then it needs replacing. The first mode of failure is typically the oil seal inside. Yes there is a spring for initial start but once the tensioner has oil pressure it should maintain that pressure even when the oil pressure is low (at idle) or briefly when off.

If it's loud at idle and goes away with increased rpm then it's very likely a bad tensioner. 

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## bryanviper (Nov 14, 2011)

Getting the Cam Chain/tensioner replaced while at my mechanic doing the timing belt/water pump and a bunch of other stuff. Apparently the bold holding in the tensioner broke. He said he could drill it out and so on however risk of metal shavings and potential down the road issues is possible. Best way would be to replace the Cam & Tensioner to do it properly. So thats what I ended up saying to do.

I just dont understand why VW would put such a small weak screw in that area? Put something thats not going to break and cause problems.


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

bryanviper said:


> Getting the Cam Chain/tensioner replaced while at my mechanic doing the timing belt/water pump and a bunch of other stuff. Apparently the bold holding in the tensioner broke. He said he could drill it out and so on however risk of metal shavings and potential down the road issues is possible. Best way would be to replace the Cam & Tensioner to do it properly. So thats what I ended up saying to do.
> 
> I just dont understand why VW would put such a small weak screw in that area? Put something thats not going to break and cause problems.


I think you mean the bolt holding the VVT. Anyhow there should be little reason to replace a VVT unless there is a broken key or broken teeth. What cam is he replacing and why? I've done this job 4 times and never broke a VVT or cam during the process. 

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## bryanviper (Nov 14, 2011)

Well its already done. Your probably right. the bolt holding the VVT. I think the bolt broke or something and he would need ot drill it out with the potential of having metal shavings inside the engine. so since the cam & im guessing the VVT are attached he needs to remove it in 1 part since the bolt snapped. 

At least that was my understanding, so a new Cam & VVT were ordered and installed since I did not want to drill out the bolt with potential issues down the line.



Barn01 said:


> I think you mean the bolt holding the VVT. Anyhow there should be little reason to replace a VVT unless there is a broken key or broken teeth. What cam is he replacing and why? I've done this job 4 times and never broke a VVT or cam during the process.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## vwooom (Aug 23, 2005)

Folks I’m getting ready to reassemble after replacing my intake cam, tensioner, hpfp, follower. I got all the torque specs for everything on page 1 of the thread and I got all the sealants I need. First time I’ve ever done this much y car engine so I can use guidance on which bolts need to have threadlocker and high don’t. I guess the tensioner and hpfp bolts should have a dab of threadlocker but I prefer not to on timing chain cover so I won’t potentially strip an impossible to reach bolthead the next time it needs to come off , like that bottom one that is in a ridiculously tight spot.

Also I’m reinstalling my cam cradle with new bolts. I have the old gasket seal removed and surfaces prepped. I have the right anaerobic high temp sealant, I would just like an outline of how best to apply. I hear it should be about a 1/8 continuous bead, circle all bolt heads and avoid any oil channels. Is that right? The anaerobic doesn’t cure exposed to air so (a) does this mean bolt cam cradle on pretty soon after applying the sealant to the cradle - is there any wait time after applying bead or just slap it on? (B) once torqued down do I need to retorque 24 hours later once fully cured? 

I have the timing chain gasket but does this need any sealant too? I guess not as I only saw the old gasket when I took it off. 
Thanks!


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## skidplate (May 4, 2004)

bryanviper said:


> Well its already done. Your probably right. the bolt holding the VVT. I think the bolt broke or something and he would need ot drill it out with the potential of having metal shavings inside the engine. so since the cam & im guessing the VVT are attached he needs to remove it in 1 part since the bolt snapped.
> 
> At least that was my understanding, so a new Cam & VVT were ordered and installed since I did not want to drill out the bolt with potential issues down the line.


I had to do the same and I pulled the VVT apart and cleaned it. I haven't put it back together yet, but it was very simple. I have to grab some more seals and bolts now that I had to pull the cams to have better access to drill out the bolt.


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## flippflopp (May 16, 2016)

First of all, thanks for this guide. Would like to share how i managed to get the poly out after stripping all teeth with the breaker bar. Read this thread again and saw some good advice to hit the bolt hard a few times to ease the grip. So did that. Drilled the bolt with a 9.5 mm HSS drill 4 mm down. Heated the bolt until the oil start to cook. Drove a Torx 55 in the drilled hole with a hammer. Managed then to get the bolt out with a bar of normal length. So, will do it differently if there is a next time. Hitting it hard a few times, heat it out and have a go with a normal length bar.


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## 01greengti (Jun 28, 2019)

pesd said:


> Unfortunately recently my cam follower has failed.
> Did not know of this issue until after warranty ended.
> The HPFP piston is in tack but slightly warn, cam lobe does not look very scared or damaged.
> I know I have follower fragments somewhere internal, optimistically lodged in corners or crevices instead of chewing up my cams and chain?
> ...


I just replaced my cam follower and it too was eaten through and I'm also worried about the metal debris in the block. What did you end up finding out and doing to resolve this? This is what mine looked like (!)

Doing the camshaft chain today...


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

@01greengti


Recommend doing an oil change immediately if you haven't already. Also recommend making it a HOT drain so that the oil is less viscous and more will drain out, along with more of whatever is in the oil.

Also recommend dropping the oil pan itself, so naturally this will coincide with the above oil change. If you are going to drop the oil pan then the hot oil drain doesn't matter since you'll be cleaning out the oil pan physically. With the oil pan off you can check the oil pickup tube and screen for any fragments of the failed cam follower and clean them out.

When you remove the cam chain cover for the chain/tensioner job you may note some fragments trapped in the housing. If not, safe to assume it has made its way through the engine via oil galleys and has eventually wound up in the oil pan.

With the cam chain cover off you will want to thoroughly inspect the intake camshaft lobe that the cam follower rides on to create fuel pressure. If that lobe is marred and you can catch your fingernail on any marring, expecally that is on the 3 corners of the lobe, it is not going to perform at 100% for fuel pressure deliver and you may start encountering fuel pressure issues. 

If by some miracle the cam lobe is in good shape and your haven't noticed any irregular behavior and/or noises from the engine since the cam follower failure (if you've operated it since then), and if you perform and oil pressure test with a manual gauge hook into the oil pressure sender port... if ALL that checks out good and you perform all that work to remove fragments then you may have averted any major issues and I would feel comfortable continuing to drive the vehicle until/if some issues present themselves.

According to the Bentley the oil pressure range with engine at normal operating temp (NOT) at idle is 17-30psi & the range for engine at NOT at 2k rev is 39-65psi.


If you need any more info/clarification on any of the above subjects or work feel free to ask.


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## 01greengti (Jun 28, 2019)

*What now?*



Thy_Harrowing said:


> @01greengti
> 
> 
> Recommend doing an oil change immediately if you haven't already. Also recommend making it a HOT drain so that the oil is less viscous and more will drain out, along with more of whatever is in the oil.
> ...


So no sign of any metal in the camshaft chain cover or in the head. I ran a magnet everywhere and inspected for metal debris and nothing. I did a hot oil change a week before I found the broken cam follower and also trolled the oil with a magnet and found nothing.

I got into this to see why my motor was making such noise. I know there's many posts about the FSI diesel-like noise, but I was convinced the chain and/or follower would be toast. But they're not. The chain is taut, the tensioner guides are pristine, everything looks great. So much so that I'm reluctant to replace the tensioner at all and risk either stripping the VVT center bolt and/or putting in an inferior tensioner. Also, the HPFP cam looks fine and feels smooth, no roughness, nothing catching on my nail. After a week with the new follower in it also looks good, as I would expect.

So what do I do now? What is causing the noise or is this noise actually normal? I find it hard to believe Audi would make a luxury car that sounds like this. It seems louder when the engine is warm. 

Not sure what to do next. I will do another oil change tomorrow and pull the pan to check for metal. I'm wondering if the PO had the tensioner done and not the HPFP and perhaps they that cleaned out the metal bits? I bought the car two months ago so have no idea how long the follower had been damaged, but looking at the condition of the cam, it can't have been too long.

What should I do next....? Here are some pics...


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

@01greengti

Yes the chain and tensioner look good. It's hard for me to tell with the cam lobe. It looks as if it is marred but that could just be the angle and lighting of the pic. If you say it is smooth then you should be fine. In that case I think you can put the cover on and not worry about anything up there.

If you did not find any fragments in there then you will find them in the oil pickup tube/screen. That is the very first thing I would do at this point is drop the oil pan and clean it out. One thing I also failed to mention in my original post was of course to check the HPFP piston and spring itself for any damage.

If the cam follower had been damaged for all this time since you owned the car it would not have been driving correctly at all. Fuel rail pressure would have been abysmal, you would have had very poor performance, codes, and you would have known something was very wrong. I assume if you had such symptoms you would have mentioned here and you also wouldn't have been driving it for 2 months that way. If I am correct about those assumptions than the follower probably failed very recently while you owned it

As for this noise... yes the FSI is noisy and it does sound a lot like a diesel because of its noisy injectors, but since I have not heard the noise you are hearing and as noises are a very subjective thing in and of themselves, I really can't tell you if what you are hearing is normal or not. I can tell you that if it gets worse as when the car is warmer that is not a good sign. Can you hear this noise while you are actually driving the car? The typical FSI noise is readily audible at idle if you are outside of the car or in the car with windows down BUT if you can here the car while you are actually driving that is not normal either. If you do hear it while you are driving and it tends to get faster as RPMs go up, then I am afraid it is likely there is damage to the engine. This would be supported by the fact that you say it gets worse as the car warms up. If that's the case, then it is getting worse because the oil is getting thinner as it warms up which lowers oil pressure. If there is damage to engine internals due to the cam follower failure then oil pressure may already be partially compromised, hence the noise in the first place, and when the oil gets thinner is is even more so, hence the noise gets worse.

But this is all just speculation since I haven't heard it and you haven't really explained much about it. You need to go into depth about this noise and when it happens/when it does NOT happen, and any other info around its circumstances, for me to have a chance at knowing what may really be going on.


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## 01greengti (Jun 28, 2019)

*This is not good*

So I put everything back together. In the process I checked that little screen filter in the oil channel in the cam adjuster cover (pic below). No metal debris to be found anywhere. However, looks like one of the sealing rings in the cam adjuster plunger thing broke. The gasket kit I have for this job had no sealing rings for this, so I've ordered them and they come in Friday (5 days out). I put the broken seal back together in it grove and reassembled in the hopes it will last until the parts come in. 

Part of my project today was to extract a broken valve cover screw and replace spark plugs and coils. Did all that and was ready to run it up to temp for the oil change, but it's now running like crap. It was running great before I started, but now it's rough, stumbles and won't idle. I have no idea what's going on and there are no codes. I think I have to call in sick tomorrow and put the old plugs and coils back in case I got bad ones, but everything else should be fine. The cracked seal in the cam adjuster shouldn't cause this much issue, right? It's behaving like a really bad MAF or a sensor is not connected or it's fuel-starved, but I double-checked all my connections and I'm positive everything is reconnected.

While the plugs were out I checked the cylinders for carbon buildup with a bore scope. Pic of inside cylinder below.

After spending the entire weekend on this, coming out worse than what I was fixing is very depressing. Apart from undoing the replacement parts I'm not sure what the heck I should do next.

Here's how I found the seal ring had broken:









Oil passage screen was clean:









Took a while to find it, so this is for others looking for this little screen filter. It's in this hole:









What the inside of my cylinders look like:


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

The broken seal ring will absolutely cause that much issue! Those rings are there to seal off the channels in the bore of the cam adjuster unit and that cam adjuster variably adjusts camshaft timing in this manner and also chain tensioning inside the housing is oil pressure driven too. The oil pressurization in that housing is not going to be accurate and the systems that depend on it will not work properly. Your cams are out of time with a cam adjuster not able to do its job correctly due to the broken ring, hence your car is running like crap. You should not have installed with a broken ring and you need to NOT drive the car until you replace the rings or you risk top-end damage. I'm sorry it went this way, I wish you had reached out before putting it all back together with the broken ring.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Just to reiterate...  
That broken ring DEFINITELY creates a noticeable drivability issue. 
You WILL get codes if you continue to drive. 
And 5 days out? I got mine the next day. 

I think I (or someone else here-I forget which threads I contribute to) posted there part number for just the rings. Can source at vw OR Audi and get next day. Sometimes same day!


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## 01greengti (Jun 28, 2019)

nater said:


> Just to reiterate...
> That broken ring DEFINITELY creates a noticeable drivability issue.
> You WILL get codes if you continue to drive.
> And 5 days out? I got mine the next day.
> ...


So the rings (part# 06F198107A) order for arrival 5 days out was cancelled by the vendor, saying they were out of stock. I called my nearest VW dealer (30 miles away) and couldn't get through to the parts dept., so left a message with receptionist to call me back. Waited four hours and phoned again, left another message, still no call back. Ended up buying a full gasket kit on Amazon for the camshaft chain cover that included the rings, and it arrived today. At least I have rings in-hand.

However, turns out the horrible engine running issues were not the broken ring. That is certainly an issue and will be swapped out right away, but the rough running was a vacuum issue. I ended up with two concurrent problems, one being the breather hose out of the back of the valve cover tore, and one of the vacuum lines beneath the camshaft chain cover had come off. I had noticed a hissing noise and located the issue with some break cleaning fluid spray. Once the hose was replaced and the tube put back on, everything is back to smooth running. I also ordered a N80 vapor canister purge valve as I'm now convinced my noise is coming from that, so swapping it will confirm that theory (or not). Now I just have to tear it all apart again and replace the rings. Any suggestions for getting them on...?

This is the offending hose with a sizable tear in it. Autozone (of course) didn't carry it, so I bought and cut up a same diameter hose for another car and cut a suitable piece out to match this one.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

01greengti said:


> This is the offending hose with a sizable tear in it. Autozone (of course) didn't carry it, so I bought and cut up a same diameter hose for another car and cut a suitable piece out to match this one.


That connect valve cover to (metal?) pipe in back passenger side corner of engine? Its quite stiff, and short/tight to get out/in. What needs to be removed?


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## 01greengti (Jun 28, 2019)

vtraudt said:


> That connect valve cover to (metal?) pipe in back passenger side corner of engine? Its quite stiff, and short/tight to get out/in. What needs to be removed?


Yes, part number 06F103213M (item 22 in pic below). It is stiff, but pliable rubber. If you undo both clips the metal pipe will push back and you can slide it off without removing the valve cover. I needed hose pliers to be able to get it off the valve cover port as it has a barb ring. The metal side is smooth and easy to remove. Be very careful though, the plastic valve is in the mouth of the metal pipe and others have reported it as fragile and easy to break. The guy in Autozone nicely brought me back to their inventory of hoses behind the counter and let me search the rack for the closest match.


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## Arska (Feb 25, 2020)

I had realy hard time with that camshaft bolt. I had to drill it out but I accidently went little sideway and hit threads. Its missing like three first threads. Do you guys think its still going to hold or do i need to do some kinda thread fix? (helicoil?)


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

01greengti said:


> So the rings (part# 06F198107A) order for arrival 5 days out was cancelled by the vendor, saying they were out of stock. I called my nearest VW dealer (30 miles away) and couldn't get through to the parts dept., so left a message with receptionist to call me back. Waited four hours and phoned again, left another message, still no call back. Ended up buying a full gasket kit on Amazon for the camshaft chain cover that included the rings, and it arrived today. At least I have rings in-hand.
> 
> However, turns out the horrible engine running issues were not the broken ring. That is certainly an issue and will be swapped out right away, but the rough running was a vacuum issue. I ended up with two concurrent problems, one being the breather hose out of the back of the valve cover tore, and one of the vacuum lines beneath the camshaft chain cover had come off. I had noticed a hissing noise and located the issue with some break cleaning fluid spray. Once the hose was replaced and the tube put back on, everything is back to smooth running. I also ordered a N80 vapor canister purge valve as I'm now convinced my noise is coming from that, so swapping it will confirm that theory (or not). Now I just have to tear it all apart again and replace the rings. Any suggestions for getting them on...?
> 
> This is the offending hose with a sizable tear in it. Autozone (of course) didn't carry it, so I bought and cut up a same diameter hose for another car and cut a suitable piece out to match this one.


Pretty sure ECS Tuning sells just the rings, and that's where I got mine. 

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## TimS78 (Nov 8, 2012)

I got the gasket/seal kit for that entire housing from RKX on amazon for $40, the N205 seals were in a VW Original Parts bag.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G9NDWS6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## TimS78 (Nov 8, 2012)

Arska said:


> I had realy hard time with that camshaft bolt. I had to drill it out but I accidently went little sideway and hit threads. Its missing like three first threads. Do you guys think its still going to hold or do i need to do some kinda thread fix? (helicoil?)


Give it a shot - if the new bolt threads in and torques to spec, it's fine. Worst thing that can happen is you have to back it out and repair the threads anyway.


For future people searching for a DIY on this, that bolt is a real bastard to get out - I had good results from using a hammer to set the socket in the bolt head before putting the breaker bar on.


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## tdibrid (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm in the process of installing a rebuilt head on a 2006 Passat. Installed cam chain and new tensioner. Installed new belt and components. Noticing that there is some play in the cam adjuster. It's tight and the dowel is correctly inserted but it allows the intake cam to have some play. 

Will this tighten up and "reset" itself when the engine starts and has oil pressure or do I have a bad adjuster? 

Got this adjuster with the rebuilt head as my original dowel pin was sheared off. 

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## TimS78 (Nov 8, 2012)

tdibrid said:


> I'm in the process of installing a rebuilt head on a 2006 Passat. Installed cam chain and new tensioner. Installed new belt and components. Noticing that there is some play in the cam adjuster. It's tight and the dowel is correctly inserted but it allows the intake cam to have some play.
> 
> Will this tighten up and "reset" itself when the engine starts and has oil pressure or do I have a bad adjuster?
> 
> Got this adjuster with the rebuilt head as my original dowel pin was sheared off.


It should be fine once it's pressurized.


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## tdibrid (Sep 3, 2008)

TimS78 said:


> It should be fine once it's pressurized.


I took the adjuster back off the cam (thankfully came off without difficulty) and took it apart. The little plunger that locks the adjuster in place must have had some tiny imperfections and wasn't sliding well. I lightly sanded it down and it slid better with the spring. Put it back together and realized I was one tooth off (intake advanced) with the adjuster locked. The timing lock would no longer go into position. Took it back off and corrected the timing. Seems important that the adjuster is locked to get timing correct. 

Got that all back together and removed and cleaned sump and screen. 

It's now all together and I've put on about 40 miles. Car seems to run and drive great but need more miles to really know.

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## JRockman94 (Nov 18, 2020)

*Easy peasy!!!*

Man this thread was a life saver! I've never been afraid to dive into a project of any sort, but the one thing I've always shied away from is timing. I got my 07 GLI with 72k and have had the crank belt replaced twice in that time, but the cam chain had never been replaced that I know of. Ive been fighting a P0010 code and started with the N205 valve but that didn't fix the issue. I figured at that point it was either one of the plastic rings or the chain had just started to stretch. After seeing all of yalls posts about how worn the tensioners were in the 150-170k range was I was terrified. Mine is sitting at 190k!!! I ordered my timing chain kit and timing tools from ECS Tuning and my plastic rings from DeutscheAuto (shopDap.com). To my surprise the tenisoner was completely intact! I used the Schwaben cam lock and Ribe socket. I took my time with the adjuster bolt, using many of the tips I read throughout this thread. I sprayed the area down with brake clean really well two or three times, I used a 1/2" breaker bar pulling with my left hand and made sure my right hand was pushing in on the socket to keep it from slipping. Just like everyone else has said, once it breaks free its super easy the rest of the way. I ended up having 1 broken ring; though a few people mentioned only replacing the one that was broken I decided to take the risk and replace all of them. It wasn't that bad and I actually was able to get the other two off without breaking them but I feel better knowing that I have all new ones in the motor. Like I said above this was my first time attempting any sort of timing. I marked the chain, teeth, and block on the intake, and with the exhaust I marked where the holes should line up on the block. Once the chain was off it was as easy as counting teeth and transferring the marks over to the new chain. I had a buddy come help me put the cam chain cover back on because that stupid metal coolant line was making it difficult to put the cover on straight; if it weren't for that I could have done the whole project by myself. I spent 3 evenings completing the project so I would say 5-6 total hours. All in all the project went about as smooth as it could have. I have no codes and its honestly pulling much better through the middle RPMs! Now to get back to my Jeep XJ, putting a new 4.0 in it!


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## Coolmarve (Mar 17, 2010)

So I cracked the OEM T40080 bit in half trying to get that camshaft bolt out. Sprayed it out with pb blaster, tried with the 1/2 breaker bar first, no dice. Hit it with the snap on air gun, and then tried the M18 still not budging but not stripped or anything. Then did the 1/2 3-foot breaker bar with a cheater bar and the bit snapped. I guess EZ out is my next move? Really trying not to damage the cam...


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## Coolmarve (Mar 17, 2010)

Got it out with a #5 Ryobi spiral screw extractor (19/64 in.). Pilot hole with a 5/16, drilled maybe a 1/2 in tops, no damage to the cam threads. God that bolt really sucks.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Question(in bold below):
Since some info regarding chain stretch was released by DAP on his TSI Chain Stretch video, I have been thinking does the same may apply to the EA113 FSI engine. But I have not found any confirmation of this. In his video he states VW/Audi techs have told him there's normally no chain and tensioner issues up to 3°kW. I have asked in the video's comments section and there's no response. He says, in the video, some may notice noise or issues at 4°kW. At 5°kW the chain and tensioner should be addressed. My EA113 has 2°kW at 156k miles. 

As I said,, I have been replying to those questioning using VCDS to check chain stretch on the EA113 FSI; All I know of is from what I heard regarding the TSI...and I haven't yet found any references for ours. So the question is; *has anyone heard any factual specifications for chain stretch on the EA113?* I recall me hovering over Group/MB 093(IIRC) Phase Position Intake to see if a pop-up appears to include the spec range....but I don't remember anything popping up.


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## APURPLEKING (May 23, 2007)

Coolmarve said:


> Got it out with a #5 Ryobi spiral screw extractor (19/64 in.). Pilot hole with a 5/16, drilled maybe a 1/2 in tops, no damage to the cam threads. God that bolt really sucks.
> 
> View attachment 91486


Damn son...

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## AdamWGregg (Aug 31, 2021)

I'm about to do this today or tomorrow and this write up has given me a lot more confidence that I can do this myself. 
Even 8 years later later it's helping people!


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## Douglasdumper (Aug 28, 2020)

Good write up, still very relevant in 2021. Just completed this on my 2012 Golf R. Ended up stripping the poly bolt and ended up having to hammer a triple square into it to get it out :/
I also thought I was gunna be slick and not take the battery out before removing the cam chain cover bolts, I spent way to long trying to find the bottom bolt above the coolant junction. I got 7 bolts out thinking I had them all out but the bottom of cover wasn’t budging. Come to find out that 7th bolt came from the coolant junction not the cam chain cover.

again thank you for the write up!


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## MA_A4 (Feb 10, 2021)

System Lord said:


> Hey whats up guys this is my first post and i just registered with this site.
> 
> Well im in the middle of this timing chain replacement for the first time on the fsi. Fyi this is not my first timing belt/chain replacement i actually have 18 years of automotive and diesel work experience.
> 
> ...


It's supposed to be 19 rollers between timing marks...

However,
I recently lost timing on my a4 and bend most of my valves.
I rebuilt my Head, re-installed my cams, chain (like everyone suggested), and timing marks are perfect for the belt.
Motor runs now but rough as hell , multiple cylinder misfires.

Didn't have time to check compression before doing all this work and will be doing so soon.
Does anyone think that compression issues would cause multiple cylinder misfires?

I can't think of the next steps , I've also cleaned off my spark plugs but doing the same still.
Putting in new ones this week when they get delivered.

Let me know if you found anything different about the timing. I'd hate to pull the chain off again if I don't have to.


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## MA_A4 (Feb 10, 2021)

asalterio said:


> *BPY timing issue*
> 
> Hey guys
> i need to jump in here and hopefully someone can help me. I have a 2006 BPY FSI DSG, bought it as a basket case from the previous owner thinking I would have to do a motor in it. Long story short the PO ran the cam follower into the cam and trashed the cam. Dealer didnt want to warranty it and he went after VW and they just paid off his loan on it. The dealer purchased some used cams and all associated parts in order to get it running. They guy threw it together and could not get the "timing right." So i redid the timing belt and installed a new water pump. I also found a collapsed roller rocker (was sideways?) I was able to loosen the cam girdle and get it straitened out, so no issues there. The car ran but was hard to start and had NO POWER off the line. Once it got going it seems to drive ok...deff under-powered. I knew the cam chain tensioner was bad due to the noise. So i removed the cam chain cover and found the damn tensioner was not even bolted to the head!! Guy was a total hack. Lucky for me no real damage was done, so I bolted the tensioner back onto the head and the noise went away. Car still has no power and engine seems to shake at idle. NO CODES present at this time. When the roller was collapsed I did get a "low boost" code or achieved boost not achieved.
> ...


Did you ever fix this. I'm sort of having a similar issue...

I recently lost timing on my a4 and bend most of my valves.
I rebuilt my Head, re-installed my cams, chain (like everyone suggested), and timing marks are perfect for the belt.
Motor runs now but rough as hell , multiple cylinder misfires.

Didn't have time to check compression before doing all this work and will be doing so soon.
Does anyone think that compression issues would cause multiple cylinder misfires?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

MA_A4 said:


> Did you ever fix this. I'm sort of having a similar issue...
> 
> I recently lost timing on my a4 and bend most of my valves.
> I rebuilt my Head, re-installed my cams, chain (like everyone suggested), and timing marks are perfect for the belt.
> ...


Yes. Compression issues will cause misfires. Lots of misfires. 


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