# HPA DSG Clutch upgrade price



## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

I recently had some email contact with HPA and they offered me a clutch upgrade for $3600usd.







I think thats a VERY HIGH price, GTR guys can buy their clutch upgrade for $1399usd and it holds 700hp, a GTR is a MORE expensive car:
_SSP Clutch Pack Upgrade Install and Update








Southside Performance say they have had a lot of success with their upgrade clutches for the Nissan GT-R’s GR6 DSG gearbox today in their latest update. Running them in their development GT-R with over 700hp, they’ve managed to reduce any clutch slip issues significantly. Over 30 sets have found homes with GT-R owners worldwide to date.
Done properly, clutch upgrades like these wont only improve the GT-R’s ability to get power to the ground but should lead to lower transmission operating temperatures under load and thus less transmission maintenance overall. Priced from $1,399 they also come with a 1 year warranty, you can check out the full press release here.
Combine these with other upgrades to the transmission like the PPG 1st gear and input shaft upgrade of the PPG 1st-6th gear upgrades for a more robust gearbox all round.
One weak link down in the quest for big horsepower GT-Rs… _ 
We really need an affordable clutch upgrade for our DSG, who can make them???


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## jonnyc23 (Oct 5, 2006)

The reason the price is still high is because there is no competition.. $3600 for clutches, DSG or not, is stupid..
Thats not far off what it costs for a full triple plate carbon clutch, what a joke!
HPA can charge what they like though.. Maybes if they lowered there profit margin they would start selling them! I know I would buy one if it was around the $2000 mark..


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

*Re: (jonnyc23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jonnyc23* »_The reason the price is still high is because there is no competition.. $3600 for clutches, DSG or not, is stupid..
Thats not far off what it costs for a full triple plate carbon clutch, what a joke!
HPA can charge what they like though.. Maybes if they lowered there profit margin they would start selling them! I know I would buy one if it was around the $2000 mark..

Yeah, I would also buy one for $2000.
I just emailed the guys that make the one for the GTR, lets see if they can make one for our DSG.


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## meshgiath (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: (jonnyc23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jonnyc23* »_The reason the price is still high is because there is no competition.. 

Could just be HPA too - they're the only ones still charging $900 for DSG flashing. http://www.hpamotorsport.com/dsg-stages.htm 
I received an email from HPA back in October (no response since as to details) that said they were working on setting up a dealer network in the USA. So maybe if they spread out a little, they'll get more business and prices will drop.


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

*Re: (Serrari)*

oem clutch packs are like $600 (don't quote me). I think double oem is a reasonable price.


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## jonnyc23 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: (wazzap1101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wazzap1101* »_oem clutch packs are like $600 (don't quote me). I think double oem is a reasonable price.

I agree.. and yeah HPA do seem on the expensive side for whatever they offer.. And over the top expensive doesn't always mean 'best'..
Well lets hope, would be nice to have a realistic option out there, I mean, yeah we could pay the asking price from HPA, but out of principal I wouldn't because its obviously just a out the air price..


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (meshgiath)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meshgiath* »_
Could just be HPA too - they're the only ones still charging $900 for DSG flashing. http://www.hpamotorsport.com/dsg-stages.htm 


Thumbs up for them selling it for what it's worth. They've worked on it since 2004. Everyone else got their hands on a tool once it became available and started spitting out "upgrades" the next day.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Thumbs up for them selling it for what it's worth. They've worked on it since 2004._ Everyone _else got their hands on a tool once it became available and started spitting out "upgrades" the next day. 

Everyone would NOT be a correct statement since not everyone did that despite your claims. We developed our tools years ago and have had software running in cars for over 18 months now around the world. 
Just because a company makes no announcement the day they start a product in development doesn't mean they didn't spend time working on it and develop it themselves.


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Thumbs up for them selling it for what it's worth. They've worked on it since 2004. Everyone else got their hands on a tool once it became available and started spitting out "upgrades" the next day. 

The other companies offer the same product for less money and satisfy what customers look for: reduce time between shifts, increase torque limit and increase rpms of launch control, doesnt seem that complicated.
If you want to argue about the DSG flash you can start a new thread, dont get off topic.


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## jonnyc23 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Thumbs up for them selling it for what it's worth. They've worked on it since 2004. Everyone else got their hands on a tool once it became available and started spitting out "upgrades" the next day. 

Said like a true sales man..
Your the tool Arin..


_Modified by jonnyc23 at 11:33 AM 12-3-2009_


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Serrari* »_
The other companies offer the same product for less money and satisfy what customers look for: reduce time between shifts, increase torque limit and increase rpms of launch control, doesnt seem that complicated.
If you want to argue about the DSG flash you can start a new thread, dont get off topic.


just going to say this HPA actually figured out how to do all those things you think are easy first (without hacking the DSGs software) and worked with VW to get it done. whether or not the other companies just rammed out there software is not the point. HPA spent years lots of years not months working on this because they were the first and had to spend that time. Can't get mad for them to try and recoup there costs. I believe they know the DSG better then any tuner and would trust there stuff because the amount of time and working with VW over others. 


_Modified by tdotA3mike at 2:33 PM 12/3/2009_


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Everyone would NOT be a correct statement since not everyone did that despite your claims. We developed our tools years ago and have had software running in cars for over 18 months now around the world. 
Just because a company makes no announcement the day they start a product in development doesn't mean they didn't spend time working on it and develop it themselves. 


Chris, I apologize. I'm sure you know who I speak of. This is particularly popular in Europe.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (Serrari)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Serrari* »_The other companies offer the same product for less money and satisfy what customers look for: reduce time between shifts, increase torque limit and increase rpms of launch control, doesnt seem that complicated.

You're correct that they offer same things (faster shifts, launch control, torque limits), but not all the DSG upgrades are exactly the same.
It's not like you just turn the shift time knob to 5 from 8 and call it a day. The way shifting is controlled and how it's programmed will greatly impact the life of your clutches. Just like engine tuning, you can crank everything to the maximum but it's not going to last long.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (jonnyc23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jonnyc23* »_
Said like a true sales man..
Your the tool Arin..


Yup... Sharing information to help customer make a more informed purchasing decision and backing up something I don't even sell... real sales man toolish thing for me to do.


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## jonnyc23 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yup... Sharing information to help customer make a more informed purchasing decision and backing up something I don't even sell... real sales man toolish thing for me to do. 









No, if it wasn't for Chris coming on here and clearing things up then your 'everyone else' comment would have obviously included Revo.. Don't you think?
Its obvious what you were trying to imply, yet again! Your not a stupid guy, so don't act dumb!








Anyways, maybe Chris will do you a deal on the Revo DSG map if you ask him nicely..







Its very good


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (jonnyc23)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jonnyc23* »_No, if it wasn't for Chris coming on here and clearing things up then your 'everyone else' comment would have obviously included Revo.. Don't you think?


I was not aware they had DSG software. Sorry!


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## tp. (Nov 12, 2009)

and now you know. and knowing is half the yattle, YO JOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


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## jonnyc23 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I was not aware they had DSG software. Sorry!

LOL!!!
Anyways back on topic..


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## meshgiath (Jun 4, 2009)

Good lord man, let's get this thing back on track! Now that I re-read what I wrote I see that it could have been taken as a knock against HPA's DSG flash - that's not what I meant. In fact, I'm still 6-ish months out from getting a DSG flash, and if HPA gets their USA network working by then they are my 1st choice. I was simply making an observation that HPA's prices are high as compared to most other businesses doing similar work. The quality is obviously very high, but good gawd the prices! So about those DSG clutches and upgrading.....


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## 08 passat turbo (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: (meshgiath)*

the HPA is mad expensive but dont they actually take the trans apart and replace the clutch packs and also reconfigure the DSG computer? if so then those prices arent TERRIBLE...i dont have dsg but if i had a bigger than stock turbo with DSG id probably save my $ and go with HPA(if they did replace the clutch packs)


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (08 passat turbo)*

I am sure the price of a GTR is lower because there is more demand for it, meaning they sell more. How many DSGs really need this vs GTR's? HPA has the right to sell it for what they want, they are in business not a charity to provide everybody with a big turbo DSG a clutch pack.


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

*Re: (Uber-A3)*

This is true but six times the price of oem clutchs is a huge turn off dont you agree? If your prices are too high, it just might drive you out of the market


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

*Re: (wazzap1101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wazzap1101* »_This is true but six times the price of oem clutchs is a huge turn off dont you agree? If your prices are too high, it just might drive you out of the market

I agree, what's the point of trying to sell too high when you don't sell the product at all? I'm sure that with an affordable price they could be selling DSG clutches really fast. But well that's my opinion.


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## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I was not aware *Revo* had DSG software. Sorry!

wahahaha! That's like me saying "I did not know Verizon had a google phone" hahahaha! EPIC!








OP. It's expensive. Why they did not release the clutch pack offerings at the lower price points they suggested back in Feb beats the hell out of me. We are talking about sub $2000 price points. Did you speak to Marcel?


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lou_Y2mK5* »_
wahahaha! That's like me saying "I did not know Verizon had a google phone" hahahaha! EPIC!








OP. It's expensive. Why they did not release the clutch pack offerings at the lower price points they suggested back in Feb beats the hell out of me. We are talking about sub $2000 price points. Did you speak to Marcel?

It was Nik Brkich.


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## ShutItDown (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lou_Y2mK5* »_
wahahaha! That's like me saying "I did not know Verizon had a google phone" hahahaha! EPIC!









Idk but not too many people know everything about phones..


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## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (ShutItDown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShutItDown* »_
Idk but not too many people know everything about phones..

Well if you work for a major cell phone company yes you do.


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## ShutItDown (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*

ahh gotcha.


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## jonnyc23 (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lou_Y2mK5* »_wahahaha! That's like me saying "I did not know Verizon had a google phone" hahahaha! EPIC!









Glad at least one person saw through that.. Pure comedy!


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## OJwerks (Oct 22, 2005)

im curious about another company making these clutches other than HPA... 3K+ is stupid.


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## OJwerks (Oct 22, 2005)

im curious about another company making these clutches other than HPA... 3K+ is stupid.


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## zigger (May 2, 2008)

arin is a f in tool no doubt


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## FuN:TuRBO (Sep 14, 2007)

man arin you got a club of haters..


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (FuN:TuRBO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FuN:TuRBO* »_man arin you got a club of haters.. 

I love it. I seem to have touched so many lives so deeply over a 2.0T engine.


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: (wazzap1101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wazzap1101* »_oem clutch packs are like $600 (don't quote me). I think double oem is a reasonable price.

exactly i wouldnt spend 2000 dlls either its crazy, but around 1000-1200 dlls they would be selling a lot, and by the way oem clutch pack or clutch repair kit in mexico is 500 dlls jeje


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

IIRC [email protected] was working with spec on a clutch pack upgrade for the DSG. HPA is just raping the game while they can. The look of the DSG and GTR clutch packs are almost identical to those in almost any automatic transmission.... All they are doing is ugrading the friction material (and possibly making the steels smaller and adding more of them and or making them one sided.) 
If there are any other weak links in the dsg this upgrade will surely exose them and someone can start working on an upgrade for that.


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## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

Also note that with any clutch pack upgrade you will need mechatronic programming to match. Just sayin. Everything needs to be accounted for. Thenew clutch pack in this gearbox changes the dynamics of the overall program so you avoid some serious fail. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Lou_Y2mK5 at 4:32 AM 12-9-2009_


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

Quite Possibly. Although considering the gears are pre-selected in a DSG, it shouldn't affect it as much as one would think. The different friction material should be designed to have superior grip at the same line pressure. (this is assuming that the dsg is a wet clutch setup. It's been a while so forgive me if its not.) 
I do suppose that if the fluid was hot enough it could cause the clutch pack to self engage, but as would be the case it seems with the stock clutch pack as well.


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## Lou_Y2mK5 (Apr 6, 2008)

Yup, clamping force for one, & if larger/thicker material is used the obvious on that one. 
If Spec is actually going through with this, they would more then likely be partnering with one or more vendors for SPECific programming.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

*Re: (Lou_Y2mK5)*

I did indeed donate a DSG trans to SPEC clutch for development, i placed it in their hands at waterfest however i have not checked up on any development since i put the trans in their hand. I am a SPEC dealer here at Douglas so as soon as they are available i will be sure to give you all a heads up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I did indeed donate a DSG trans to SPEC clutch for development, i placed it in their hands at waterfest however i have not checked up on any development since i put the trans in their hand. I am a SPEC dealer here at Douglas so as soon as they are available i will be sure to give you all a heads up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

well i talked to the spec guys directly at sema show, and from what they told me they feel theres not a great demand for this clutch, they told me they were developing a lot of time consuming projects and cause of the low demand from this clutches they didnt see it happening in less than a year.
thats what they told me hope its not the case, either way someone should send some used oem clutch packages to this guys that develop the GTR ones maybe they can do something faster and cheaper










_Modified by [email protected] at 4:37 PM 12-9-2009_


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## rags2riches (Jan 2, 2010)

I know this is an old thread, but what the hell. I have something to say. Just buy a standard you lazy asses. JK. I see the performance potential of a bad ass DSG upgrade. However, you are going to see way more manual tranny upgrades at a cheaper price and faster. Just my $.02. Plus it's way more fun to shift the car by hand and not by finger flip.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

rags2riches said:


> I know this is an old thread, but what the hell. I have something to say. Just buy a standard you lazy asses. JK. I see the performance potential of a bad ass DSG upgrade. However, you are going to see way more manual tranny upgrades at a cheaper price and faster. Just my $.02. Plus it's way more fun to shift the car by hand and not by finger flip.


Great contribution  There are already several options for an upgraded clutch in the 6MT tranny. Right now there is only 1 real option for upgraded DSG clutches. If HPA's price includes clutch packs, installation, and software then it's really not too bad, especially since nobody else out there can offer a turnkey solution that I know of.


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## mkim (Jun 17, 2008)

2k I will do...


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

SSP has an upgrade kit that is paired with unitronics tuning i do believe. The clutch packs are right around 1300-1500.


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## StreeterTT (Apr 22, 2010)

TBomb said:


> Great contribution  There are already several options for an upgraded clutch in the 6MT tranny. Right now there is only 1 real option for upgraded DSG clutches. If HPA's price includes clutch packs, installation, and software then it's really not too bad, especially since nobody else out there can offer a turnkey solution that I know of.


SSP Performance offers the upgrade DSG clutches too.




mkim said:


> 2k I will do...


The HPA sales gave me these information of the software and clutch packages without installation.




[email protected] said:


> Pricing is as follows:
> 
> *Stage 2* - $899.00
> *Stage 3* - $1995.00
> *Stage 4* - $2495.00





[email protected] said:


> That is for the software only.
> 
> Clutch pack pricing:
> 
> ...


They aren't cheap, but is the only DSG software in the market to solve the torque limit and high oil temps. problems.




mrbikle said:


> SSP has an upgrade kit that is paired with unitronics tuning i do believe. The clutch packs are right around 1300-1500.


Serrari did it, he sent all the transmission to SSP Performance and sold it to me with the 500 WHP SSP clutch packages, the Viton seals and the UNITRONIC Stage 3 DSG software.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

StreeterTT said:


> Serrari did it, he sent all the transmission to SSP Performance and sold it to me with the 500 WHP SSP clutch packages, the Viton seals and the UNITRONIC Stage 3 DSG software.


And how is it going so far for you with your upgraded DSG?

In advance thanks,

Beto


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## StreeterTT (Apr 22, 2010)

BETOGLI said:


> And how is it going so far for you with your upgraded DSG?
> 
> In advance thanks,
> Beto


My DSG with the SSP clutches has been working without any problems, but I feel the torque limit with UNITRONIC Stage 3 DSG software is insufficient for my car because his software is for only 500 NM (368 ft-lb) of torque. I hope with the HPA Stage 3 or Stage 4 software could increase or remove this torque limit.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

StreeterTT said:


> My DSG with the SSP clutches has been working without any problems, but I feel the torque limit with UNITRONIC Stage 3 DSG software is insufficient for my car because his software is for only 500 NM (368 ft-lb) of torque. I hope with the HPA Stage 3 or Stage 4 software could increase or remove this torque limit.


Great man! Do you have high temperature issues with your DSG? Have you checked out if Unitronic can help you out with a special file?

My car is with basic BT stage (it isn't extreme, I'm using a Garrett 2871R... and I think I'm keeping it there), as well I'm using the Unitronic's DSG flash Stage II and I'm pretty happy with the results!

Indeed the HPA files are incredible expensive, but since you have taken your car so far... I think it might worth it (in case Unitronic can't offer you something else).

Good luck and keep us informed! :thumbup::thumbup::beer:


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## StreeterTT (Apr 22, 2010)

BETOGLI said:


> Great man! Do you have high temperature issues with your DSG? Have you checked out if Unitronic can help you out with a special file?
> 
> My car is with basic BT stage (it isn't extreme, I'm using a Garrett 2871R... and I think I'm keeping it there), as well I'm using the Unitronic's DSG flash Stage II and I'm pretty happy with the results!
> 
> ...


I don't have high oil temperature issues with my DSG and I asked to UNITRONIC dealer about it and he told me that they don't have a DSG special file in this moment and it's the reason I'll need the HPA DSG software.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

StreeterTT said:


> I don't have high oil temperature issues with my DSG and I asked to UNITRONIC dealer about it and he told me that they don't have a DSG special file in this moment and it's the reason I'll need the HPA DSG software.



Go for it man! :thumbup:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

StreeterTT said:


> I don't have high oil temperature issues with my DSG and I asked to UNITRONIC dealer about it and he told me that they don't have a DSG special file in this moment and it's the reason I'll need the HPA DSG software.



Have you inquired with HPA about this yet? I have SSP clutches arriving next week and curious if HPA has any issue with programming their stage 3 software on a car that isn't running HPA upgraded clutch packs. I'm 2009 TSI so HPA is the only solution right now for DSG software. 

I spoke with Jeremy @ SSP last week and he's checking with Uni to see where they are at in their development for the TSI DSG SW but haven't gotten a call back from him yet.


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## StreeterTT (Apr 22, 2010)

steelcurtain said:


> Have you inquired with HPA about this yet? I have SSP clutches arriving next week and curious if HPA has any issue with programming their stage 3 software on a car that isn't running HPA upgraded clutch packs. I'm 2009 TSI so HPA is the only solution right now for DSG software.
> 
> I spoke with Jeremy @ SSP last week and he's checking with Uni to see where they are at in their development for the TSI DSG SW but haven't gotten a call back from him yet.


I called them and a HPA sales guy told me that I can use their software without any issues if my car is running a clutch packages different than theirs.


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

StreeterTT said:


> I called them and a HPA sales guy told me that I can use their software without any issues if my car is running a clutch packages different than theirs.



:thumbup::thumbup:


In this case how can you upload the DSG file since I think that they're only at Canada. I'm I right?


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## StreeterTT (Apr 22, 2010)

BETOGLI said:


> :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> 
> In this case how can you upload the DSG file since I think that they're only at Canada. I'm I right?


These are the HPA options to reflash the DSG:


*How To Get Your DSG Reflashed:


Option 1: On-Location Direct Port Programming

Local DSG owners can book an appointment for their reflash to be performed in our workshop. We are located just outside of Vancouver, British Columbia; a short drive from Seattle, Portland, etc. Please contact us to schedule an appointment.

We have completed several tours across the continent to flash groups of DSG vehicles. Future trips reaching different geographic areas will be scheduled based on local interest... Please email us if you want your city added to the list. We will also be offering DSG Flashing on location at various shows and events throughout the year. KEEP WATCHING THIS SPACE FOR OUR NEXT SCHEDULE.

* Appointments must be booked in advance and flashes prepaid 
* Minimum number of cars required per location 
* If less than minimum number cars per location, we will try to work with your assembled group to determine a fair travel surcharge that would make the trip possible. 
* The process takes approximately 30 mins on the read out, 30 mins back at HPA and 30 mins to reload. For this reason, we are limited to how many cars we can schedule for the PM and AM appointments. 
* Appointments will be booked on a first purchase, first choice basis. 


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Option 2: Bench Flashing at HPA Facility

For those of you who live in remote areas and want to purchase a DSG performance reflash, simply ship your DSG Mechatronic unit to our facility we can bench flash it for you. Please contact us to schedule your in-house flash to ensure quick turn around and receive detailed shipping instructions.

To protect the TCM during transport, we recommend you follow these suggested packing guidelines: (click for larger image) 

































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Option 3: Direct Port At Your Door

Loaner tool program
With the order of your HPA DSG Performance Program, you will have the option to rent our proprietary flashing device. With a credit card security deposit, you pay only the shipping to and from your location. 

The flashing device consists of a special OBD II dongle with software to install on your laptop/PC and a USB cable to interface over a USB 2.0 connection. 

Easy to follow instructions are included with the tool, so with your software flash pre-paid, you start the simple three step process: 

1) Use the tool to read out your factory DSG file 
2) Send file via email to our office where the file is edited and then sent back 
3) Use the tool to re-flash the HPA Performance Program onto your vehicle 

A return waybill is enclosed with the package so all you need to do is drop the parcel off at your local UPS store when you’re done. Once the tool is received back at HPA, the security deposit is released and you are off to the races. 

To order your DSG Flash and make your Tool Rental Reservation, please contact our sales department. 













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Option 4: International HPA Dealers

Servicing markets around the world, new dealers are being set up monthly. Current dealers include: 

Eurohaus PTE LTD 
Singapore 

City Performance Center 
Australia 

3 Zero 3 Motorsports 
Colorado

*


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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

StreeterTT said:


> These are the HPA options to reflash the DSG:
> 
> 
> *How To Get Your DSG Reflashed:
> ...


Excellent info man!


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

StreeterTT said:


> I called them and a HPA sales guy told me that I can use their software without any issues if my car is running a clutch packages different than theirs.


Cool man. Thanks for the reply!


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