# Can I swap an 020 with 02J ?



## Sam C (Sep 9, 2002)

Greets
I have a 96 2.0L jetta trek 5-speed in some serious need of a tranny fix. 
Options:
1) swap with something old ... lots to choose from but high mileage.
2) rebuild - known probs ... rev gear shot and need a couple of bearings.
3) swap it with one from an 1.8T (020 to 02J) 
I personally think 2 is the best option as long as I don't find anything more wrong with it once we’re in there. 
But ... 
3 is tempting but I'm not sure if converting to linkage and hydraulics is expensive plus I don't know what this set up would be like hooked up to my 2.0. 
It does set me up nicely for a 1.8 swap down the road . 
Any ideas?


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## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (Sam C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sam C* »_It does set me up nicely for a 1.8 swap down the road

Not really. Tranny work is one thing. Swapping in a 1.8T is a much, much larger ballgame.
I'd stick with option 2. If you went with option 3, you'd have to get the following:
• mk3 VR6 cable shifter with cables and ends.
• mk3 VR6 shifting rod to transplant into the 02J
• mk3 VR6 clutch master cylinder
• hydraulic line that'll mate from the MC to the slave cyl on the 02J
• hydraulic supply hose from the clutch MC to the brake fluid reservoir.
• mk3 VR6 brake fluid reservoir (with outlet for clutch fluid supply)
It's kind of a pain when you think about it. I'd rebuild the 020 tranny, and put a bolt kit in there while you're at it. That'll increase the resale value a little more, so if you upgrade later, you'll have that tranny to sell.


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## troze1200 (Oct 12, 2000)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (punkassjim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punkassjim* »_
Not really. Tranny work is one thing. Swapping in a 1.8T is a much, much larger ballgame.
I'd stick with option 2. If you went with option 3, you'd have to get the following:
• mk3 VR6 cable shifter with cables and ends.
• mk3 VR6 shifting rod to transplant into the 02J
• mk3 VR6 clutch master cylinder
• hydraulic line that'll mate from the MC to the slave cyl on the 02J
• hydraulic supply hose from the clutch MC to the brake fluid reservoir.
• mk3 VR6 brake fluid reservoir (with outlet for clutch fluid supply)
It's kind of a pain when you think about it. I'd rebuild the 020 tranny, and put a bolt kit in there while you're at it. That'll increase the resale value a little more, so if you upgrade later, you'll have that tranny to sell.

He's right. The 02a and j are much more solid trannies, and I have yet to find an 020 that can shift remotly close to the ease and feel of a non 020.
I cryo treated my 020, and even though it still feels like a box of bolts when I shift, I think it is strong enough for my bea swap.


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## Sam C (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (punkassjim)*

Yeah ... it will be a larger job but here's what I'm facing:
- rebuild will cost at least $1200 and potentially much more
- I'm looking into the 020 to 02J swap and I should be able to do it for around $2000 (I'm waiting for my mechanic to get back to me)
Can the swap be done? If so, how would the swap change the driving characteristics of my car (better on gas but less peppy / the same / more pep but worse on gas)?
Your input is greatly appreciated.


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## troze1200 (Oct 12, 2000)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (Sam C)*

Its a totally different shifting design, and you get a better clutch design. Ratios are what make a difference in mpg. You will end up with a stronger, easier to shift tranny.


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## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (Sam C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sam C* »_Can the swap be done? If so, how would the swap change the driving characteristics of my car (better on gas but less peppy / the same / more pep but worse on gas)?

Of course it can be done...I just gave you a complete parts list








The 02J will shift easier, but it'll feel a little notchy. I liked it a lot at first, but now I'm getting annoyed with it. It's about time for a DieselGeek short shifter. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm not sure about adding peppiness to your ride, but it'll probably increase your mileage SLIGHTLY. The 02J that comes in the 1.8T has a 3.94 final drive, so you'll be at lower RPMs at highway speed.
*WARNING:* you need to do a little research about speedo sensors. I'm pretty sure you can't use the speedo sensor that comes in the 02J, and you need to make sure the 02O speedo sensor will fit and work in the 02J. The only reason my speedo works is because I have the mk4 motor, cluster and everything. So I'm not sure if mixing-and-matching actually works when it comes to the speedo. Best of luck in finding out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Sam C (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (troze1200)*

Troze
Yeah that's what I've heard. I also like the idea that the tranny internals don't have to be messed with (no disrespect to my mechanic) but he's a swap specialist but I don't know if he's as good with tranny rebuilds. 
So IYO ... if I can afford the swap I should do it? Where or how can I determine the gear ratios?


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## Sam C (Sep 9, 2002)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (punkassjim)*

Punkass 
That's good info thanks! I never thought to ask about the speedo.
You wouldn't know off the top of your head what the final is on an 020 (I'm sure it depends on my particular car ... how do I figure it out).
Also ... the only saving grace I have is that my car can zip at 180 - 200 km/h. Do you think I'll lose much off the top end?


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## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (Sam C)*


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









As for the 02O tranny, kraftswerk has a ratio chart here.


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (punkassjim)*

i thought the tt was 4.20.. is the ring and pinion on all these swappable


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## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (jok3sta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jok3sta* »_i thought the tt was 4.20.. is the ring and pinion on all these swappable

It is, for the first four gears. The final for 5th and 6th is different, and it's 3.94. The reason is because it's an 02M gearbox, and 5th (and 6th, if present) is on a different input shaft than 1-4. Very tricky design, but very nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And yes, the R&P are swappable...but why would you want to










_Modified by punkassjim at 9:41 PM 3-4-2004_


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (punkassjim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punkassjim* »_
It is, for the first four gears. The final for 5th and 6th is different, and it's 3.94. The reason is because it's an 02M gearbox, and 5th (and 6th, if present) is on a different input shaft than 1-4. Very tricky design, but very nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And yes, the R&P are swappable...but why would you want to









_Modified by punkassjim at 9:41 PM 3-4-2004_

well im trying to build up a all motor vr and someone says they have a 3.94 from a 225hp tt


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## punkassjim (Sep 22, 2002)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (jok3sta)*

I don't think you can put a final drive from an 02M into anything but an 02M, since it has a radically different design than all other VW trannies. But I could be wrong. And if you're using an 02M on your VR6, you're gonna need one from a late Jetta GLI (24v), or at least get the 6-cyl bellhousing.
One way or another, I know you can get a 3.94 R&P for the 02A you have now. I'm not sure if it's available through eurospecsport, or kraftswerk, or somewhere else. Count Blah.. would know.


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## jok3sta (Oct 19, 2000)

*Re: Can I swap an 020 with 02J ? (punkassjim)*

ok koo thanx.. ill look deeper into it


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