# Need Frame Knotching Info, so I can go to the ground



## -=GrimJack=- (Jan 5, 2004)

Sup my "Air"e-n Brothers. I know, I know that just sounds bad, but you know the peoples car and all. I just thought it would be funny.
Well anyways, I installed my easy street set up and everything is running great for me, but as I see more and more dumped cars, I realize that I want to lay the car on the ground.
Now my only problem is that currently I have no clue what is involved in notching the frame.
Also, right now, I am running 18x8.5" wheels in the front and 18x9.5 in the rear on a MKIV Jetta Wagon. In order to go to the ground am I going to have to sacrifice the wide wheels>


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## -=GrimJack=- (Jan 5, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *jsmith0958* »_
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3406026
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2598487
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3211726
Hope that helps some!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by jsmith0958 at 9:52 AM 12-20-2007_


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## kweetech (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: (-=GrimJack=-)*

jettas have frames? I always thought they were unibody








sawzallz ftw


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## vwguygti98 (Aug 15, 2003)

*Re: (kweetech)*

i have not bagged my car yet as i will be installing everything in the next few weeks but i just wanted to know how low my car might be with out notching the frame


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## pop and lock (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: (vwguygti98)*

One thing I would've done and will do when I do my own as opposed to what Prime and some of the other guys did with their notches is to reinforce the sides of the notch with plate steel...much how you would doing a c-notch(the proper way) on a car/truck with a frame.


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## Plain (Jun 14, 2004)

I reinforced mine with side plates on both sides. Its beefy as beefy can be.
Me, creating the cnotch out of a 2x4 rectangular tube (should have bought a "C" but its all I could find.








Marking out the c.








That right there is going to be gone.








section of the rabbit gone with only 4007miles on the car
















The infamous Anson (http://www.durocco.com/)








Anson love sticking metal together with electricity








BEEFY! 1.75" of added clearance. I painted it but it's Rustoleum ssemigloss white which is definitely not Candy white. LOL so you cant see that picture.












_Modified by Plain at 2:43 PM 12-21-2007_


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## NYC Wheelz (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (Plain)*

IF a c-notch is accomplished, is there anything that has to be done to airbag strut to get it lower?


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## Plain (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: (2.0L lova)*

Yes. But it depends on your setup.


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## Florida Flow (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: (2.0L lova)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.0L lova* »_IF a c-notch is accomplished, is there anything that has to be done to airbag strut to get it lower?

There are things you can do yes. But it matters what car you going to be doing it too.


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## NYC Wheelz (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (Florida Flow)*

Yah I got a 2000 vw. 
My front air strut is a air ride technologies air strut.
I wanted to know if the cnotch would bring me lower in the front. 
or would I have to switch to a hps air ride front strut and then do a c notch?
I tuck a lil tire on an 18 but the rear drops lower and its not level.


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## corrado_sean2 (Nov 14, 2005)

*Re: (2.0L lova)*

how about fuel line info on our mk4s? i know they go through the rail but how do i avoid cutting them? easy enough to just pull them out? or are they on top of the rail..the side? what?


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## CAPiTA (May 28, 2004)

*Re: (corrado_sean2)*

no. just go to town with plasma cutter..


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## corrado_sean2 (Nov 14, 2005)

*Re: (CAPiTA)*

then how did they cut santis...hmm...oh well ill just do it and see what happens.


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## formerly vr6 karl (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (corrado_sean2)*

to add even more strength to this would be to drill a bunch of little holes into the plate part and fill in with weld---the point being is that you would add more contact points than just the bead on the edge (i got this info from my uncle who worked fabbing up parts for a race team that built trophy trucks=they built all thier parts from scratch)
im just throwing out that info for those who want to arm themselves with as much info as possible http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Plain (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: (formerly vr6 karl)*

YEah we (Anson and I) thought of "plug welds" but decided against it. I pulled my air suspension out a few weeks ago for some updates over the winter. While I was at it I inspected the plate and it hasn't warped or moved at all. Plug welds wouldn't be a bad idea though may be overkill but it wouldnt hurt. Good info!


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## Squillo (Sep 18, 2004)

There are many guys on here with the know how to make you car go low, but notching your frame with just plain easystreet air will NOT help you go any lower. Trust me your car will be lower than most but not will not have a mag ready stance like let say Capita or Plain (depending on you Car) I had the Easy street set up in my Mk 4 Jetta and could get the axles to touch the unibody but would not get ground scraping low. I don't mean to bust your bubble but I would like you to have a realistic idea of what to expect.


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## -=GrimJack=- (Jan 5, 2004)

So then whats the hold up on the easystreet air? Preach on it brother Squillo.


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## Squillo (Sep 18, 2004)

*Re: (-=GrimJack=-)*

Don't get it wrong I love the easy street kit, It gets your car low , I thought the quality of the kit was top notch and the customer service I got from easystreet and suicide door was fantastic. But the size of the strut and bag they use have there limits. I have seen the HPS kit installed on the MK 4 around here and dont think it is any/much lower than the easy street kit. The firestone bag easystreet uses seemed to have thicker outer walls making the bag seem as if they are a higher quality than some of the other one I have seen other companies use.
Here's my car down ( if Ihad smaller tires I could get it a bit lower they were the stock tires on my GLI)








PS the Air struts and rear bags are for sale now the the GLI is gone



_Modified by Squillo at 3:06 PM 12-27-2007_


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## Florida Flow (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: (Squillo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Squillo* »_ I have seen the HPS kit installed on the MK 4 around here and dont think it is any/much lower than the easy street kit. 

I agree i just didnt want to be the first one to say it.


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## -=GrimJack=- (Jan 5, 2004)

So then what is the limiting factor on the easystreet kit to get the car to the ground?
heres how mine sits right now.










_Modified by -=GrimJack=- at 2:42 PM 12-27-2007_


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## [email protected] (Nov 10, 2007)

*Re: (-=GrimJack=-)*

you'd have to either raise the strut mount/strut tower, or cut osme off the bottom. both would require you to run a higher pressure for clearance, but you could drive low. driving at the bottom 1/3 stroke of those sleeves will cause the strut to blow within a pretty short time. i think mine lasted 5k.

easy street doesnt use firestones on those sleeves, but rather their own bags which are made at goodyear with their own molds.


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## -=GrimJack=- (Jan 5, 2004)

I am not really to concearned about driving low more so being on the ground at shows.


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## Squillo (Sep 18, 2004)

*Re: (Florida Flow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Florida Flow* »_
I agree i just didnt want to be the first one to say it.

I know But if HPS want to prove me wrong and send me a kit to preach there praises I won't stop them. I was told I would tuck *RIM* with their kit I am going to order it only because I want a bolt in kit ( I'm not as smart as you Flow) But if I dont tuck rim they will have some explaining to do.


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## xxp0werrangersxx (Aug 21, 2004)

*Re: (Squillo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Squillo* »_
I know But if HPS want to prove me wrong and send me a kit to preach there praises I won't stop them. I was told I would tuck *RIM* with their kit I am going to order it only because I want a bolt in kit ( I'm not as smart as you Flow) But if I dont tuck rim they will have some explaining to do.
























squillo i want your gli kit! 

oh and what was keeping your gli kit from tuckin rim?
the bag height/thickness ? 


_Modified by xxp0werrangersxx at 1:24 AM 12-28-2007_


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## [email protected] (Nov 10, 2007)

*Re: (Squillo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Squillo* »_
I know But if HPS want to prove me wrong and send me a kit to preach there praises I won't stop them. I was told I would tuck *RIM* with their kit I am going to order it only because I want a bolt in kit ( I'm not as smart as you Flow) But if I dont tuck rim they will have some explaining to do.

















bolt in kits, 99.999999% of time, don't go low enough


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## Florida Flow (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: (Squillo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Squillo* »_ ( I'm not as smart as you Flow) 

come on man you know im not smart. i just work well with my hands and have people arround us that know quite a few things about what they are doing.


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: (Florida Flow)*

On a mk4, how low you can go in the front is basically limited by the physical constraints of the car... 
When the strut is bottomed out, you are tucking tire but not wheel (with 18's). You can run a shortened strut assembly, but you can't mount the bag low enough on the strut due to tire clearance and no bag out there will collapse far enough anyway. 
What you are left with is using a modified strut bearing assembly. At that, you'll be able to go about 5/8" lower but the upper bag mount will usually touch the strut tower. 
Strut and bag bottomed out, passenger side frame rail resting on driveshaft:









The rear is a different story. Fender liners resting on tires (with air still in the bags):


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## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Scott are your mk4 front kits based on the UAS Aero Sport bags or custom bellows with a static seal against the housing and another static seal against the rod?


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: (Afazz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Afazz* »_Scott are your mk4 front kits based on the UAS Aero Sport bags or custom bellows with a static seal against the housing and another static seal against the rod?

UAS bag on our modified Koni Sport Adjustable strut:


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## Plain (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

The sealed strut/bag assemblies, like airride.de, easy street where there is no inner bellow but the bag is sealed to the mounts, those can collapse more because they dont have a 4" spacer. Instead they seal the upper seals (I have talked to suspension companies that have said its not uncommon to see the seals get blown out in the opposite direction) if there not sealed well, plus not matter what way you try to seal it, it will eventually wear out and let blowby.
The universal air suspension has a dual wall, where their's have an inner chamber to allow the bag to be bolted more traditionally like typical air bags do. But the inner chamber needs crushing room so there is a 4" steel sleeve on the inside that restricts the bag from going any lower. Which has been the biggest annoyance for me. I have talked countless times with Zack at UAS about these bags and figuring out a way to get these things shorter by trimming the inner sleeve. He insisted the bag will rip itself apart if it crushes anymore, he was pretty serious about it. 
Easystreet, G.A.S./H.A.S. makes their kits the way they do because of boltin aspects, if they allowed the bag to go any lower you would have to cnotch and there isn't a large population that will do that plus they can't tell you to cut your framerail (yes I know its a unibody) that would be a big liability. 



_Modified by Plain at 9:52 AM 12-28-2007_


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## [email protected] (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: (Plain)*

What Paul just said, too. We've done a ton of research and development on this subject. The bottom line is that we decided that the air-over-strut setup was not the direction we wanted to go in the front. For a rear application, where the load is significantly less, it's not an issue. 
And even with a bag-over-strut, the overall compression of the strut is limited to the point where the strut bottoms out (which coincides with the point where the pass axle is about 1/16" from touching the frame rail). On a "kit" it's all about liability. I can't really offer you a kit and tell you you have to c-notch your frame rail to make it fit. If you bought components from me to do that, we'd have a different story


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## Afazz (Feb 10, 2002)

*Re: (Plain)*

Yep. If you check out the patent documentation on the UAS website, it contains cross sectional drawings and it's very clear why you cannot modify them to collapse lower than 4 inches. The problem with sealing against the rod and strut housing is that you run the risk of blowing hydraulic rod seals and blowing the shock, which is a huge advantage of the UAS Aero Sport design. If you could seal both upper and lower bag plates against the rod that would be the best and lowest way, but the lower seal would have to be a dynamic seal and they're very tricky to get right (given the requirements) with zero leakage and reasonable wear life. 
Thanks Scott for the info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Afazz at 10:07 AM 12-28-2007_


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## [email protected] (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (Afazz)*









hps kit on 19's with front sway still installed and no notched frame, believe me the car will go lower


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## dashrendar (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (Squillo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Squillo* »_Don't get it wrong I love the easy street kit, It gets your car low , I thought the quality of the kit was top notch and the customer service I got from easystreet and suicide door was fantastic.

except for when they do this.







I still have to call them to see what they can do.

_Quote, originally posted by *dashrendar* »_


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## Starion88esir (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: (mk420ae)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk420ae* »_hps kit on 19's with front sway still installed and no notched frame, believe me the car will go lower

Have any fully aired out pics. Something at ground level so you can see how low it really is?


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## [email protected] (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (Starion88esir)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Starion88esir* »_
Have any fully aired out pics. Something at ground level so you can see how low it really is?

that pic is on level ground fully deflated


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## [email protected] (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (mk420ae)*









there it is from further out


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## crippled4life (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (dashrendar)*

damn how did that happen to the bottom of ur strut?


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## Squillo (Sep 18, 2004)

*Re: (dashrendar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dashrendar* »_
except for when they do this.







I still have to call them to see what they can do.


Is that the newer redesign, I know they said something like that had happened to some people and they redesigned the lower mount. That sucks I hope they can help you out
Mine were one of the first bunch after the redesign or so I was told.








The base differs alittle from yours. but not much.


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## dashrendar (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (Squillo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Squillo* »_
Is that the newer redesign, I know they said something like that had happened to some people and they redesigned the lower mount. That sucks I hope they can help you out


I beleive they are the older design. we will see what they do.


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## Starion88esir (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: (mk420ae)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk420ae* »_
there it is from further out

Looks like there is still a good 3-4 inches between you and the ground. Not to mention you're running skirts and a bigger bumper. 
I'm looking to have my girl's GTi sitting the subframe when we do it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (Starion88esir)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Starion88esir* »_
Looks like there is still a good 3-4 inches between you and the ground. Not to mention you're running skirts and a bigger bumper. 
I'm looking to have my girl's GTi sitting the subframe when we do it.

youre not going to get that out of just a straight swap of suspension, there is not a air suspension available for the mk4 platform that will do that with out modification to the the frame/front suspension. This is by far the lowest ive seen a car on bags with no modification to the front struts as well as no notched frame, still running front sway and rolling on 19's with no modification to the fenders, id like to see a lower mk4 without one of those things done


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## FthElemnt (Mar 21, 2003)

i don't man, i don't think it's very much lower than the easy street stuff is, maybe 1/2" at most but even that seems like a stretch. i think your wheels are whats is keeping your car from going lower also.
i think the reason yours looks lower is because most of the people running easy street are not on 19s. this is my friend's car when he was on easy street and 19s, front all the way down, rear still had something like 10psi in it.








it looks about the same as yours, but like i said i think your wheels and tires are keeping your car from going lower.


_Modified by FthElemnt at 4:24 PM 1-3-2008_


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## [email protected] (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (FthElemnt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FthElemnt* »_i don't man, i don't think it's very much lower than the easy street stuff is, maybe 1/2" at most but even that seems like a stretch. i think your wheels are whats is keeping your car from going lower also.
i think the reason yours looks lower is because most of the people running easy street are not on 19s. this is my friend's car when he was on easy street and 19s, front all the way down, rear still had something like 10psi in it.








it looks about the same as yours, but like i said i think your wheels and tires are keeping your car from going lower.

_Modified by FthElemnt at 4:24 PM 1-3-2008_

i completely agree at about about 20 psi i can hear the car rest on the wheels and it wont drop any lower, i know i need to notch the frame and remove the front sway as well though


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## phantommullet4 (Nov 25, 2006)

Maybe use this as an excuse to get some new wheels


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## [email protected] (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (phantommullet4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phantommullet4* »_Maybe use this as an excuse to get some new wheels

need to get rid of mine first


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## phantommullet4 (Nov 25, 2006)

19" milanos? shouldn't be too tough.


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## Florida Flow (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: (phantommullet4)*

i think they are SSR's


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## [email protected] (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (Florida Flow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Florida Flow* »_i think they are SSR's 

correct 19" ssr professor sp1's


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## phantommullet4 (Nov 25, 2006)

Oh wow I wasn't even paying attention. Wierd seeing as how those are probably one of my favorite wheels. Props for running something different.


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## [email protected] (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: (phantommullet4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phantommullet4* »_Oh wow I wasn't even paying attention. Wierd seeing as how those are probably one of my favorite wheels. Props for running something different. 

they are fs 1700 takes them


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## Florida Flow (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: (mk420ae)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk420ae* »_
they are fs 1700 takes them

WOW now thats a deal!


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## phantommullet4 (Nov 25, 2006)

Well no offense, but I don't really think those wheels work on mk4's. Just my $.02. Not to mention I don't even own a mk4 sooooo... But that is a damn good deal!


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