# TSI Intake Manifold Removal DIY + Valve Cleaning



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

I've shared an album of pictures of the removal. Look for the red arrows pointing to the bolts, screws, sensors, etc. I apologize for the iphone quality.
*
Link to Picture Album:*
http://s758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/steelcurtain_4550/Manifold Removal/ 

Overall the removal is pretty easy and straightforward. Just take your time removing and disconnecting everything. Take pics so you can reference during the reinstall. Overall removal time is about 1-2 hours depending on your speed and access to tools. Having the right tools makes it simple.

*Tools Needed*

•	Sharpie marker and plastic baggies to store screws / bolts and label where they came from
•	3/8’ inch ratchet with 90* adjustable angled head
•	Socket that will hold torx bits
•	#10 triple square (12 point)
•	T-30 bit for all manifold related screws
•	9” ratchet extensions
•	Protective gloves
•	Respiratory mask for valve cleaning
•	17mm open wrench
•	10mm socket for disconnecting battery
•	Sockets for hose clamps on throttle body, etc.
•	GM Top Engine Cleaner, Part# 1052626 (aerosol can)
•	Shop rags
•	Wire brushes (cylinder bottle type)
•	Metal pics
•	Compressed air
•	Vacuum cleaner
•	Good ventilation


*Manifold Removal*

1.	Lift front end of car
2.	Disconnect fuel pressure sensor on top of fuel pump; turn on car and let idle for 10-15 seconds to lower fuel pressure from pump and rail.
3.	Disconnect battery
4.	Remove air intake (I have a Carbonio intake; I could have probably kept it on the car but it made it much easier to get to the fuel pump with it off)
5.	Remove throttle body pipe
6.	Disconnect PCV hose from manifold and PCV assembly on engine.
7.	Disconnect sensor located on head beside PCV assembly.
8.	Remove the 2 T-30screws that hold down the fuel rail and the 1T-30screw holding EVAP hose on top of mani. Use wire tie to suspend fuel rail out of the way. (I used the hood bracket and engine lift bracket to tie wire-ties around.
9.	Remove 1 T-30screw on top of mani that is holding down fuel hard line . 
10.	Remove 2 T-30screws for wiring harness assembly that connects to the mani on the right side; remove sensors from assembly and take note of their orientation so you can assemble them into the wiring bracket later.
11.	Remove 1 T-30screw located left of throttle body that holds the coolant line harness to mani.
12.	Remove 1 T-30screw located on far left side of coolant harness (about 6” left of throttle body).
13.	Disconnect spring clamp from purge valve and pull purge valve hose from valve. – store hose out of the way. 
14.	Place rags underneath bolt attaching fuel line to fuel rail assembly under intake mani , disconnect bolt using a 17mm open wrench then disconnect bolt under fuel pump using 17mm wrench. Use caution cause fuel will spill and may be under pressure if step # 2 wasn’t followed correctly. Use eye protection. 
15.	Disconnect vacuum actuator flapper sensor by sliding off of assembly mounted to mani and remove the vacuum line. 
16.	Disconnect fuel pressure sensor located underneath 1&2 runners.
17.	Remove throttle body sensors.
18.	Remove throttle body by unscrewing 4T-30bolts located underneath the throttle body assembly.
19.	Disconnect EVAP hose from manifold located underneath runners 2&3
20.	Remove the M10 triple square bolt for the intake manifold support bracket to the engine. This bolt is difficult to see. The location is below the intake manifold and behind the throttle body.
21.	Remove the 5 upper T-30 bolts fastening the intake manifold to the cylinder head. 
22.	Remove the 2 additional lower T-30 bolts are accessible just above and to the left and right of the TB Module. 
23.	Remove the additional two M6 nuts located on the underside of the cylinder 1 and 4 intake runners.
24.	Disconnect sensor on right side of oil filter / left side of mani; I believe this is the power source for the fuel injectors IIRC
25.	Verify that all sensors are disconnected
26.	Verify that everything has been disconnected then gently pull up on manifold making sure fuel injectors don’t stay connected to fuel rail assembly. It’s okay if the injectors stay connected but it will most likely leak fuel onto the engine.

*Valve Cleaning*

1.	Wear protective mask and gloves at all times. The GM cleaner is very strong and harmful to inhale and touch!! Use caution and common sense. 
2.	The GM cleaner works very, very well. It does most of the work for you. You just have to be patient mopping up the carbon soup it creates in your intake ports. 
3.	Remove intake flaps and soak in GM cleaner. Use wire brushes if necessary to scrape off the excessive amounts of carbon. Use rags to wipe away the carbon. Keep applying cleaner to areas that have the most build-up. 
4.	Hand turn the belt around alternator to turn the crank so it closes off valves on intake side. Once closed, spray GM cleaner into each valve one at a time. Let soak for 10 minutes then scrape with wire bottle brushes to loosen carbon. Tear apart 2” x 2” rags to use to soak up GM cleaner from each valve port. Use picks to move rags between the front and back of valves thoroughly cleaning all sides and “mopping” up the dirty cleaner. Keep repeating until valves are shiny silver. Use vacuum to suck out carbon bits. Use compressed air to assist with cleaning. Be careful not get bits of carbon in your eyes.


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## JRMGTI (Jan 10, 2011)

Excellent write-up. Lucky for me just got the new manifold and valve cleaning done under warranty.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

JRMGTI said:


> Excellent write-up. Lucky for me just got the new manifold and valve cleaning done under warranty.


:thumbup:


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

You Sr. I owe a Beer and a hand shake! I plan on ordering a manifold very soon and wasn't sure if I was going to tackle this myself, but after reading your write up, I'm more than confident I can pull it off :thumbup::beer:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

onevrsix said:


> You Sr. I owe a Beer and a hand shake! I plan on ordering a manifold very soon and wasn't sure if I was going to tackle this myself, but after reading your write up, I'm more than confident I can pull it off :thumbup::beer:


Cool bro. It's intimidating when you look at it. Let me know how it goes and PM me if you need help in the process.


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## Made in America (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks for the write up. I'm thinking of selling my 2010 VW Passat Wagon because of this issue. But I may not sell it if I can do this procedure myself. The thought of having to fork out $700 every 40k miles is nauseating. 

I'm wondering if investing in a borescope like this might be helpful? Would it be easy to put this down the pipe and see the fuel injectors without ripping it apart?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Made in America said:


> Thanks for the right up. I'm thinking of selling my 2010 VW Passat Wagon because of this issue. But I may not sell it if I can do this procedure myself. The thought of having to fork out $700 every 40k miles is nauseating.
> 
> I'm wondering if investing in a borescope like this might be helpful? Would it be easy to put this down the pipe and see the fuel injectors without ripping it apart?



I wouldn't buy the scope and you don't need to do this every 40k. I'm a performance guy so I wanted to do it but you could go 80-100+k miles without needing to do it. The only time you really need to do it is if you experience misfires,loss of performance, cold start issues. 

Will a scope work? Yes. Just go through the IAT sensor and make sure the camera and camera tube diameter will fit into the IAT port before you buy it.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

I've updated the photo album with some better pics of the dirty valves and removed the bad pics. I've also placed some helpful installation notes in the description fields of the photos that have titles (excluding the cylinder pics).


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## Daze513 (May 25, 2010)

How many miles did you have on the tsi when you did this? Just to get an idea of what I can expect in my engine. Thanks.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Roughly 48k


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

I just ordered my manifold today; I have a question though. where did you find the Triple square tool? I want to make sure I have all the correct parts before I tackle this. So looking forward to getting this replaced, I simply cannot take it any more. 
:beer:


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

Nice write-up. A better way than using all that dangerous paint killing solvent (not to mention what it does to your eyes, skin, and lungs) is to blast it clean using a forced walnut shell blaster instead. Just make sure both valves for that cylinder are closed, and have someone hold a powerful vac to suck up the shells and debris as you work blasting out the port. I've done this for decades without issue.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

onevrsix said:


> I just ordered my manifold today; I have a question though. where did you find the Triple square tool? I want to make sure I have all the correct parts before I tackle this. So looking forward to getting this replaced, I simply cannot take it any more.
> :beer:


 I ordered mine thru ECS tuning but they sell them at pepboys and other local auto stores. They may be hard to find depending on your area. Snap-On sells them too so you could always find your local rep and meet him somewhere. That route will cost $$ though.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> I ordered mine thru ECS tuning but they sell them at pepboys and other local auto stores. They may be hard to find depending on your area.


 I have SCOURED EVERY local automotive store as well as home depot, lowes, sears, etc.. and NOBODY that I am aware of sells triple squares at a retail store.
You have to order them from amazon, ecs tuning, ebay, or metalnerd.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I have SCOURED EVERY local automotive store as well as home depot, lowes, sears, etc.. and NOBODY that I am aware of sells triple squares at a retail store.
> You have to order them from amazon, ecs tuning, ebay, or metalnerd.


 Yea my pepboys just started to carry them.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I'll have to call up my pepboys and see if they have them.
I need a set of stubby tripple squares.


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## BoBa524 (Apr 18, 2007)

Good write up, but those valves didn't look that bad. I work for a dealer and seen some real bad ones even on the newer 3.6s. There are a lot of sprays that different companies are coming out with but i have yet to see a chemical clean better than CLR. Make sure the valves are closed, poor it in, let it sit, wire brush it, blow it out and they are shiny clean. 

Almost every vw tech has a set of these exact ones: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VIM-...Z200601546285QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

CLR as in the acid advertised on TV?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

BoBa524 said:


> Almost every vw tech has a set of these exact ones:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VIM-...Z200601546285QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools


 Perfect, Thanks!


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

Question, are you sure its an M10 triple square and not 8? I have an 8 that fits all the other triple square attachments under the hood (heat shield, engine lift/jack brackets on top of the engine) I was able to get my hands on an 8 but no dice with a 10. also, did you replace the fuel injector seal kits when you pulled the mani? I'm trying to determine if its needed, if not I can do this tonight and be done with it. if it is, I'll have to wait till the weekend cause I won't be able to get to a dealership until then. 

Thanks,


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

You only have to replace teh injector gaskets if an injector pops out when you pull the manifold.
I ordered 4 just in case...


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

onevrsix said:


> Question, are you sure its an M10 triple square and not 8? I have an 8 that fits all the other triple square attachments under the hood (heat shield, engine lift/jack brackets on top of the engine) I was able to get my hands on an 8 but no dice with a 10. also, did you replace the fuel injector seal kits when you pulled the mani? I'm trying to determine if its needed, if not I can do this tonight and be done with it. if it is, I'll have to wait till the weekend cause I won't be able to get to a dealership until then.
> 
> Thanks,


 Yes, it's a 10. I wouldn't replace the seals unless you see damage. I had damage on two of mine but they stayed in their bore when I pulled the mani. If they're damaged now, it's just a matter of time before they go bad so might as well knock it out now. I replaced all of my seals. 2 were cracking and 1 was gone.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> You only have to replace teh injector gaskets if an injector pops out when you pull the manifold.
> I ordered 4 just in case...


 Are the injectors attached to the bottom of the manifold? 


steelcurtain said:


> Yes, it's a 10. I wouldn't replace the seals unless you see damage. I had damage on two of mine but they stayed in their bore when I pulled the mani. If they're damaged now, it's just a matter of time before they go bad so might as well knock it out now. I replaced all of my seals. 2 were cracking and 1 was gone.


 so only if there is damage. got it. fortunately I'll be doing the job at my mom's house and shes walking dist. from the dealership. if they're damaged I'll simply acquire as needed. hopefully none of them pop out. 
Mani should get here today, have the gasket, just need the G'damn 10 trip. square still can't find it


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## 24vEngineer (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the DIY. Removed the manifold and cleaned the ports and valves. Went back together with no problems. 

:thumbup:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

24vEngineer said:


> Thanks for the DIY. Removed the manifold and cleaned the ports and valves. Went back together with no problems.
> 
> :thumbup:


 That's awesome! I think you're the first to respond to actually performing the DIY on all of the forums I have posted on. Glad to hear it went well and thanks for letting me know. 

How did the GM cleaner work for you? 

-patrick


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

onevrsix said:


> Are the injectors attached to the bottom of the manifold?
> 
> have the gasket


 You probably won't even need it if you leave the original in the mani. Good to have as a spare for the job though.


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## 24vEngineer (Nov 27, 2007)

steelcurtain said:


> That's awesome! I think you're the first to respond to actually performing the DIY on all of the forums I have posted on. Glad to hear it went well and thanks for letting me know.
> 
> How did the GM cleaner work for you?
> 
> -patrick


 
Used the Gunk heavy duty gel engine cleaner. It worked fine. Scrapped a ton of Shyte off of the splitters in the intake ports. It didn't come out as bright and shinny as yours did, but I probably didn't spend as much time. Finished it off with carburetor cleaner and a good vacuuming. 

Didn't even need a new gasket for the intake manifold. Old one worked fine.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

steelcurtain said:


> You probably won't even need it if you leave the original in the mani. Good to have as a spare for the job though.


 I'm actually replacing my manifold, turns out it comes with a gasket so I hope the dealer will take it back. I wanna tackle this tomorrow but that damn M10 is holding me up. In step 23 you also mentioned an m6? Are thee two different sized triple squares?

Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

onevrsix said:


> I'm actually replacing my manifold, turns out it comes with a gasket so I hope the dealer will take it back. I wanna tackle this tomorrow but that damn M10 is holding me up. In step 23 you also mentioned an m6? Are thee two different sized triple squares?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk


 12 points can be a pain like that. Call your local tool delivery trucks like Snap-on, Cromwell, etc. They are hard to find but these guys will have them. They're whoes. It's all about selling tools so they'll sell to you out of the truck. It'll just cost $$ but you might be able to just get a single 10 instead of buying a set. Plus it'll be a quality tool. Or make friends with the mechanics and borrow their ****. That's what I had to do for a M14 for the rear brakes! 

Sorry, the M6 is the size of the bolt. It's a standard bolt For VW's. You'll need a small ??mm 3/8" socket with at least a 6" extension. (sorry forgot the actual size). You'll be going underneath runners with the wrench/extension to the 2 m6 bolts that are underneath the manifold runners. These bolts hold the bottom of the mani to the head. It's a narrow gap between the runners so you need an adequate diameter extension.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

BTW - if I had a new mani then I would use the new gasket. IMO, it will seal better than a used gasket since it doesn't have the "form" of the old mani. I could be wrong but I would still use the new one! Haha


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

24vEngineer said:


> Used the Gunk heavy duty gel engine cleaner. It worked fine. Scrapped a ton of Shyte off of the splitters in the intake ports. It didn't come out as bright and shinny as yours did, but I probably didn't spend as much time. Finished it off with carburetor cleaner and a good vacuuming.
> 
> Didn't even need a new gasket for the intake manifold. Old one worked fine.


 Cool man. Thanks for letting me know how it went. :beer:


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*AAHH, what's the Reason for doing this ?*

Seems Like a Good Fuel Cleaner would have done as good , and really looking at the Pic's

Hope You Stuffed three layer of Cotton and Rags in there before the Wire Wheel on the end of a Drill , can see the Marks . Just to - _*Keep out the Debris !*_

*Done Plenty of Port and Polishing - those are small wire wheel marks - all day long !



I have done this Method and Cheated to do a Slight Port on Bowl , then Vac , then Air.
*


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

steelcurtain said:


> BTW - if I had a new mani then I would use the new gasket. IMO, it will seal better than a used gasket since it doesn't have the "form" of the old mani. I could be wrong but I would still use the new one! Haha


 Cool; yeah I bought one from the dealership and the manifold came with a new throttle body gasket and mani gasket as well. So now I have two. looking forward to tackling this tomorrow afternoon. so long as I can find that trip square. think I'm going to try and borrow it from a local :thumbup:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

EngTech1 said:


> Seems Like a Good Fuel Cleaner would have done as good , and really looking at the Pic's
> 
> Hope You Stuffed three layer of Cotton and Rags in there before the Wire Wheel on the end of a Drill , can see the Marks . Just to - _*Keep out the Debris !*_
> 
> ...


 No wire wheel on drill was used. I used wire handheld bottle brushes. That was listed in the DIY.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

I don't know how you guys did it. All but the two triple squares and the rear left intake mani bolts are taken off. there simply isn't enough clearance for me to get any tool in there to take the rear left TB bolt off. It's driving me crazy I was at the local hardware store buying smaller flex socket wrenches, mini ratchets, and nothing. not to mention I can't see the trip squares yet. the GLI noise pipe is causing/had caused a lot of problems. there is a bracket that supports it that comes off the alternator that blocks the hard pipe from moving, I removed that bracket (by undoing both alternator bolts) and have a little more room to play but that was about 45 mins ago and the lack of light had me calling it quits. very frustrating. 
I'm going to pick up tomorrow after work. everything else came out with ease, and when I can actually see/get to the triple squares I'll tackle them now that I have the right tool.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

That TB bolt is a bitch. Before I got a flex head wrench I used a t30 bit that had a loop on the end. I would use a very small flat head to insert into the loop to turn the torx bit. It is possible to reach that bolt from underneath the car using a long narrow extension. It's still a PITA but doable. You're just gonna have to get creative. If you've removed the coolant line support bolts, you should be able to push the line bracket to the side to make it easier. GL man. You'll git er done!


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

I really hope so because I was very close to snapping that bolt off since I'm replacing the mani anyway...I just didn't want to damage the TB. my knuckles and fingers are all sorts of scratched up thanks to that back left TB screw. Why they thought hardline coolant hoses were/are necessary is beyond me. going to pick up four injector rebuild kits just in case since it seems I may accidentally go beast mode on this thing and whip out the dremell & sawzaw tag team :laugh: 

picked up a stubby pivoting ratchet and a socket style T30, hopefully that will give me better access.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Wow - that's a lot of Work - then --->>>>*

Most Likely - Time & Heat - thing - in regards to Hard Piping :

Then - the Entire thing won't work - because of a very little Fitting on the End of a Wire :










Removing the Seal :


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

when I pulled the manifold out Two injectors came with it. I put everthing back together and now I've got a serious missfire and EPC light on. 
I'm thinking it has something to do with the injectors because the little white washers sit between the fuel injectors and the engine came out when pulled. My buddy pulls out the rebuild kit and tells me there was a revision and this goes in place of the white piece. 









Now I'm afraid that this piece that I installed on the two injector was wrong and is causing some kind of failure. I think i'm going to take it apart tomorrow morning to try and see where I went wrong. this is going to be miserable


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## Bullitt_TDI (Dec 12, 2006)

onevrsix said:


> when I pulled the manifold out Two injectors came with it. I put everthing back together and now I've got a serious missfire and EPC light on.
> I'm thinking it has something to do with the injectors because the little white washers sit between the fuel injectors and the engine came out when pulled. My buddy pulls out the rebuild kit and tells me there was a revision and this goes in place of the white piece.
> 
> 
> ...


 
I wonder if the washers are one time use. I know this is the case with tdi injectors. reusing the washers,will not allow proper sitting and optimum spray pattern.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

Actually right before I went to sleep last night I remembered I forgot to plug in an injector. So epc is off but I still have the same studders whenever boost exceeds 12 psi. Im going to get vcds this afternoon so we'll see what codes im throwing. Plus I have to clear my old codes.

Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks for the DIY. :beer: 

Most likely will end up doing this myself.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

onevrsix said:


> Actually right before I went to sleep last night I remembered I forgot to plug in an injector. So epc is off but I still have the same studers whenever boost exceeds 12 psi. Im going to get vcds this afternoon so we'll see what codes im throwing. Plus I have to clear my old codes.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk


 Resolved the issue yesterday, it was my spark plugs. Car runs like a raped ape! absolutely astounding. First time I've been able to actually feel/enjoy my stage two tune. eace: 
Many thanks for the DIY, before this I was blowing out the nipple that is attached to the pressure actuated arm, and upon removal of the manifold I noticed that the flaps just didn't work. 
My fingers are still healing and despite starting with gloves they were torn and tattered beyond usefulness by the end, which resulted in an excessive amount of engine grime cracked under my fingernails :laugh: oh the joy's of owning a VW; rear brakes and oil change on deck for next weekend. :thumbup:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Bullitt_TDI said:


> I wonder if the washers are one time use. I know this is the case with tdi injectors. reusing the washers,will not allow proper sitting and optimum spray pattern.


 Yeah the washers are one time use.
I already ordered 4 injector sealers from ECS tuning in prep for this install.




onevrsix said:


> rear brakes and oil change on deck for next weekend. :thumbup:


 Get ready fro some more fun, getting to the triple square bolts in order to remove the rear calipers is a PITA.
Front brakes are easy as pie to swap out though.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Get ready fro some more fun, getting to the triple square bolts in order to remove the rear calipers is a PITA.
> Front brakes are easy as pie to swap out though.


 :banghead:Thanks for the heads up :facepalm:


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## cldub (Jul 2, 2010)

Damn man I didn't realize you were in F'Burg. I've been seriously looking into this project, I'm just hoping a lot of it is the same on my FSI. Maybe once I decide to do it you could come give me a hand? I'll buy beer :beer:


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

JRMGTI said:


> Excellent write-up. Lucky for me just got the new manifold and valve cleaning done under warranty.


What? :what: Warranty doesn't cover this, because if they did, Audi and VW dudes would be all over it like syrup on pancakes!  SEEKING RESPONSE!


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Well Lots of Luck - as It's Doing It Again ! - HELLO -*



JRMGTI said:


> Excellent write-up. Lucky for me just got the new manifold and valve cleaning done under warranty.


My First Intake manifold Issues came at around 25,000 miles , but didn't get Fixed Until or
Shell We say Figured Out - Till I went to a Different VW Dealer & Bitched !

34,000 miles Fixed , Now It's got *54,000 Happening all over again* !

Tried the TSB on the Wiring Seems to have Helped but only - Lasted 3 weeks . *
How Long are Repairs Warrantied ?* 54,000 - plus a month of long distance Driving .
Now 60,000 miles .
( Connection were - Firg'd Up - by the First Dealer ) , and the second - didn't Perform the TSB 
When the First Manifold was Done ! 
_*
Out of Pocket on the TSB - Wiring . *_

_*Now comes the P2015 Code - WTF - this is a PITA !*_
_*
Is this the Part I need for the Fix , can this be done - without removing Manifold ?*_

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Engine/Intake/ES281203/


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

onevrsix said:


> Resolved the issue yesterday, it was my spark plugs. Car runs like a raped ape! absolutely astounding. First time I've been able to actually feel/enjoy my stage two tune. eace:
> Many thanks for the DIY, before this I was blowing out the nipple that is attached to the pressure actuated arm, and upon removal of the manifold I noticed that the flaps just didn't work.
> My fingers are still healing and despite starting with gloves they were torn and tattered beyond usefulness by the end, which resulted in an excessive amount of engine grime cracked under my fingernails :laugh: oh the joy's of owning a VW; rear brakes and oil change on deck for next weekend. :thumbup:


Glad you go it fixed. I'm sorry I didn't chime in but the email notifications suck since the new website and for some reason I didn't get any notifications from the posts in July. WTF? now I starts to notify me for some reason.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

Nothing Is Fixed : and what the F___ is the Subject Matter Attached to Your Response ? 

_*Spark Plugs aren't Going To Cut the Mustard Here !*_


Glad you go it fixed. I'm sorry I didn't chime in but the email notifications suck since the new website and for some reason I didn't get any notifications from the posts in July. WTF? now I starts to notify me for some reason.[/QUOTE]


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Staying On Topic !*

My First Intake manifold Issues came at around 25,000 miles , but didn't get Fixed Until or
Shell We say Figured Out - Till I went to a Different VW Dealer & Bitched !

34,000 miles Fixed , Now It's got *54,000 Happening all over again* !

Tried the TSB on the Wiring Seems to have Helped but only - Lasted 3 weeks . *
How Long are Repairs Warrantied ?* 54,000 - plus a month of long distance Driving .
Now 60,000 miles .
( Connection were - Firg'd Up - by the First Dealer ) , and the second - didn't Perform the TSB 
When the First Manifold was Done ! 
_*
Out of Pocket on the TSB - Wiring . *_

_*Now comes the P2015 Code - WTF - this is a PITA !*_
_*
Is this the Part I need for the Fix , can this be done - without removing Manifold ?*_

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...take/ES281203/


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## 24vEngineer (Nov 27, 2007)

EngTech1 said:


> My First Intake manifold Issues came at around 25,000 miles , but didn't get Fixed Until or
> Shell We say Figured Out - Till I went to a Different VW Dealer & Bitched !
> 
> 34,000 miles Fixed , Now It's got *54,000 Happening all over again* !
> ...


NO, your complete intake manifold is toast. The arm that actuates the flap is worn and is causing a small vacuum leak. Get a new intake manifold for around $275 from the stealership and then get this:

http://blackforestindustries.com/blog/2011/08/04/clean-catch-crankcase-oil-separator/

Enjoy taking off your intake manifold again!


----------



## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

24vEngineer said:


> NO, your complete intake manifold is toast. The arm that actuates the flap is worn and is causing a small vacuum leak. Get a new intake manifold for around $275 from the stealership and then get this:
> 
> http://blackforestindustries.com/blog/2011/08/04/clean-catch-crankcase-oil-separator/
> 
> Enjoy taking off your intake manifold again!



Wholly -Poop - This is really BS - there should be a - _*Giant Recall !*_

Labor Rate going to be like $575 + Part - I Think I will Be doing the : _*Liquid Plastic*_ - Maneuver

My Miles are all Thruway - with the Cruise Control On - *How the Hell could that 
Wear Out - Anything ?*


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

EngTech1 said:


> Nothing Is Fixed : and what the F___ is the Subject Matter Attached to Your Response ?
> 
> _*Spark Plugs aren't Going To Cut the Mustard Here !*_
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

My reply wasn't to you so quit posting nonsense. The mani has a bad actuator arm. There is a TSB it will be fixed under warranty. deal with and quit posting here. This is a DIY. There are a million posts about this TSB. Take it somewhere else.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

EngTech1 said:


> Wholly -Poop - This is really BS - there should be a - _*Giant Recall !*_
> 
> Labor Rate going to be like $575 + Part - I Think I will Be doing the : _*Liquid Plastic*_ - Maneuver
> 
> ...


Liquid plastic isn't going to solve anything. P2015 is indicating that the flaps in you're manifold no longer actuate up, and are stuck open. This happens when the arm on the right of your manifold (looking at the engine from the front) is either disconnected from the nipple or has worn to the point where the nipple no longer grasps the runners. The only solution is a new intake manifold. Can be had for $150 plus shipping if you order form www.1stvwparts.com Part number should be in the original post. Dealer will run you about $220-280. 
The job itself is pretty cumbersome and quite annoying but it is possible with a lot of patients and the proper tools. (small hands help as well) This write up will save you a lot of head scratching. remember to pull the oil filter when removing the manifold. Good luck and Gods speed eace:
And FYI; steelcurtain was just congratulating me not posting in response to your issue. no need to blow up on him! we're all here for the same reason.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Point Being -No One Should have to Do this DIY - Period !*

_*Point Being -No One Should have to - Do this DIY - Period !*_

Wholly -Poop - This is really BS - there should be a - _*Giant Recall !*_

Labor Rate going to be like $575 + Part - I Think I will Be doing the : _*Liquid Plastic*_ - Maneuver

My Miles are all Thruway - with the Cruise Control On - *How the Hell could that 
Wear Out - Anything ?


Seems there are Plenty Of After market Manifolds for Other Tuner Cars and VW
has always had the lead in Vendor Support !

No Manifolds Offered to get Rid of the Issue All together ! 
*


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

EngTech1 said:


> _*Point Being -No One Should have to - Do this DIY - Period !*_
> 
> Wholly -Poop - This is really BS - there should be a - _*Giant Recall !*_
> 
> ...


I don't think there is a way to 'do away' with the system. fact of the matter is, we're direct injection, carbon build up will first cause the runners to stick, putting more pressure on the nipple on the side of the manifold. eventually the connection to the runner wears smooth and no longer works as desired. We have to many other attachments dependent on our manifold. as you'll notice when/if you tackle the job. FSI does have a manifold that deletes the runners but I don't know how they do away with the CEL. No added benefit in upgrading the manifold as far as gains are concerned. To the above post who referenced a catch can, there functionality has been debated for years now, and ultimately, its found to be unnecessary. (as far as my research has taken me). While the PVC system is filthy and problematic in our cars, its necessary for emissions and better fuel economy. There are images with people who have water/meth injection and Catch Can and their intake ports are still super gummed up after 20k miles.


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

onevrsix said:


> There are images with people who have water/meth injection and Catch Can and their intake ports are still super gummed up after 20k miles.



:thumbup::beer:


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*LOL - Haaa Funny Guys , But what the H____ does Meth*

LOL - Haaa Funny Guys , But what the H____ does Meth have to do with
Hot Oil Vapors ? :facepalm:

It's the Cooling of these Items that is Dropping them Out of Vapor to be Deposited .

So Why Not Inject these vapors into the ( Ahead of the High Pressure Fuel Stream )

*Still Lubes the valves without - Coating the Entire Inside of the Intake with Tar !* 


Here's an Intake for Ya ! - - _*Now Look Carefully ans See the Idea !*
_ 
http://


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

EngTech1 said:


> LOL - Haaa Funny Guys , But what the H____ does Meth have to do with
> Hot Oil Vapors ? :facepalm:


The idea was that the water in w/m injection during its flash evaporation stage in the combustion chamber would help steam clean the intake valves.
As it turns out this hasn't 100% prevented the buildup of carbon deposits on the valves.

Oh and dude, you need to chill the hell out, all cars have flaws, you cant just flip $hit every time a part fails on your car.
Especially once you start to add aftermarket parts.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Oh and here is something else that should cause a stir with certain individuals.
I was having a PM discussion with somebody and they mentioned that the stock PCV gases might have a hand in TB failures. This might also pertain to Intake Manifold failures.
If the PCV gases that are filled with oil vapors and gunk get into the bearings, actuators, and electrical components in the TB and Intake Manifold it could cause premature failure.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*OK - My Motor is Still Stock - so the vapors I'm Hoping aren't as Bad*



ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Oh and here is something else that should cause a stir with certain individuals.
> I was having a PM discussion with somebody and they mentioned that the stock PCV gases might have a hand in TB failures. This might also pertain to Intake Manifold failures.
> If the PCV gases that are filled with oil vapors and gunk get into the bearings, actuators, and electrical components in the TB and Intake Manifold it could cause premature failure.



OK - My Motor is Still Stock - so the vapors I'm Hoping aren't as Bad ( I Hope ) - I'm
Going to do an Internal Cleaning of Sorts , I'll also be running My Oil a Little Lower 1/4 cup
on the stick - might help . Just really Hate having - My Hands Tidied , as in Not much One can Do .

That Catch Can is looking better .
Maybe I can Just UN-Hook the PVC - Pipe all together , and threw it away ! LOL


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*You should Try this also !*



onevrsix said:


> :banghead:Thanks for the heads up :facepalm:



_*You Might want to Use this :*_
Check Out the 30" special Red Tube .
http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-u...oam-spray.html


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

This may be the REAL answer.... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ust-description-(DIY)-(long)&highlight=bypass


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

EngTech1 said:


> _*You Might want to Use this :*_
> Check Out the 30" special Red Tube .
> http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-u...oam-spray.html


 Yeah, if you look up my created threads, I did a DIY on how to seafoam your car using the caned version. Warning, our cars smoke a lot! I've done it in the past, had cars smoke a decent amount, butThe 2.0T filled my entire driveway after a few revs. Took it out around the block and you couldn't see anything out the back window, it was actually pretty dangerous for those behind me. It was a real smoke screen. I did it twice in one week and the second time was worst than the first. when I pulled my manifold I still had quite a large amount of carbon build up. Next time I have a VAG Comm available I'm going to do it again. 


VWRedux said:


> This may be the REAL answer.... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ust-description-(DIY)-(long)&highlight=bypass


Don't know how I feel about deleting the PVC; If I'm not mistaken the engine relies on the blowby to achieve maximum fuel efficiency. A functional PVC is also required to pass inspection If I'm not mistaken.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

onevrsix said:


> If I'm not mistaken the engine relies on the blowby to achieve maximum fuel efficiency. A functional PVC is also required to pass inspection If I'm not mistaken.


WUT? Dont see how pumping oil vapors into your motor is going to increase fuel efficiency.

You are correct that the PCV system needs to be intact for inspecation.
I highly doubt the inspection will go as far to trace a pcv line to determine where it goes.
Chances are they will pop the hood, realize that the motor has 245724572457 lines running around, check to make sure there arent any noticeable failures, and just close the hood and say all is good.


----------



## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> WUT? Dont see how pumping oil vapors into your motor is going to increase fuel efficiency.
> 
> You are correct that the PCV system needs to be intact for inspecation.
> I highly doubt the inspection will go as far to trace a pcv line to determine where it goes.
> Chances are they will pop the hood, realize that the motor has 245724572457 lines running around, check to make sure there arent any noticeable failures, and just close the hood and say all is good.


crankcase vepors often contain majority unburt fuel oil vaports and other gasses. 

Realizing we're direct injection your right its mostly oil vapors 
Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

onevrsix said:


> Don't know how I feel about deleting the PVC; If I'm not mistaken the engine relies on the blowby to achieve maximum fuel efficiency. A functional PVC is also required to pass inspection If I'm not mistaken.



Actually that specialized nipple seen in that thread sucks all the crankcase gases out and runs it post catalytic converter.... and I mean it sucks it out real good  :laugh: with just the right amount of vacuum. When inspection time arrives, connecting up the stock OEM PCV system is a snap! I have spoken with many who have indeed done this and they say it works like a charm! :thumbup:


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## maotsetung (Mar 30, 2009)

I know this is off-topic but has anyone seen the HEP FSI intake manifold? Looks really good quality and they even have Stage 1,2, & 3. I'm actually wondering if they ever make one for the TSI. Only thing is its a bit pricey but like I said quality is top notch. 


---
- thanks,
- mao


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## A3Tripod (Sep 28, 2005)

How did you know that you needed to clean your manifold? I don't drive all that often (have less than 10k on my GTI) since I bought my car 18 months ago. I had my first VW service about 1k ago (i dumped and refilled at 3k) and ever since my CEL has come on every few days or so. It's been on and cleared itself at least 5 times now. Is this behavior the kind of thing that prompts a mani/valve cleaning? 

If so, wouldn't I make VW do it, since its under warranty?


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## maotsetung (Mar 30, 2009)

^ If you have less than 10K on the clock and barely drive your car..you should be fine. Usually guys do it roughly around 50K-80K and some do it earlier. It really depends on you. You should have someone do a vag-com check on your car to see what's up with cel. 


---
- thanks,
- mao


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## A3Tripod (Sep 28, 2005)

I'm taking it in to VW today to have them look at it. Of course when I called, they guessed it was emissions related. The CEL came on again last night...i think this makes 6 times now in the last month. I'll let you know if its manifold related. 


Trip to dealership #1 
Dealer said that a sensor was sending a fault - related to evaporative emissions. Tech found it to be the sensor used to monitor intake manifold flapper actuation. Said he tweaked the sensor and sent me home. Of course I knew this wouldn't fix it, but I played their game. The next day, my CEL came on. 

Trip to dealership #2 
Dealer traced the fault to the same sensor and noticed this time that the flappers were sticking. VW replaced the intake manifold with a revised version under warranty. the revised version has lubrication spots that are further away from where the flappers pivot. Supposedly, the previous mani would clog at those lubrication ports and due to their close proximity to the flappers, would cause them to stick. Sounds like a load of bunk, but that's what he said. Also updated the ECQ to increase fuel pressure in the injectors - this is supposed to help as well??? 

No CEL since, but its only been about 300 miles on the car.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Friend of mine just purchased a media blaster and some walnut shell media.
We are going to setup an install day and both of us are going to clean out our valves sometime coming up.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*OK , Good Input , I have a few ?'s*



VWRedux said:


> This may be the REAL answer.... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4387972-Bypassing-PCV-and-routing-to-exhaust-description-(DIY)-(long)&highlight=bypass


 * I'm trying to get a Real Understanding - is all the Technical Data - on this 
PVC System for the - - - 2.0 TSI - VW

Anyone is this Picture an Exact Design - Or - What It should have Been ?

Picture of Audi's PVC or FSI's ?

As I can't seem to find the Filter - Mentioned / The Pic makes it seem PVC has a Filter. This could just be the FSI's PVC system and It's Oil Filter .*








[/URL]


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## .skully. (May 18, 2005)

EngTech1 said:


> * I'm trying to get a Real Understanding - is all the Technical Data - on this
> PVC System for the - - - 2.0 TSI - VW*


* 

Page 25 and 26 here: http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/VW/Misc/VW.COM_2.0L_TSI_Turbo_SSP_824803.pdf*


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

*Keep in mind*

This study guide is not without its flaws! Page 8 clearly shows its the exhaust camshaft that has the 4 lobe cam for the fuel pump. Then on page 38 it clearly states that its the "intake camshaft" with the 4 lobe cam.


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## .skully. (May 18, 2005)

VWRedux said:


> This study guide is not without its flaws! Page 8 clearly shows its the exhaust camshaft that has the 4 lobe cam for the fuel pump. Then on page 38 it clearly states that its the "intake camshaft" with the 4 lobe cam.


 Good eye. I wonder if there is an updated pdf since that was printed in 2008.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*All Right - Thanks - Guys - I Feel a lot better about the Motor Now !*

*That's some real good Input , really appreciate that .

Dan* 
:beer:

ps: I did the Sea-Foam thing into Intake yesterday : ( Sprayed into Hot Manifold )
, and let the Stuff Rest in there . I also added Marvel to Oil and Drove 60 miles afterward
then Dropped Oil and Fresh Filter . It seems to be running Better ( Smoother ) - this will turn into a long term Test .


ps: Page 28 : * Engine Coil Cooler* - Yes I can see the Coils being Cooled by the Oil & Water
going though the - *Oil Cooler* . another Error .

I step Cooler Spark Plug would help Cool those Coils :


----------



## Super Hans (May 27, 2011)

I seafoamed with the special U-nozzle at 12k. Got no smoke at all. 1/2 a can. Will do the other 1/2 next spring.


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## ManTech (Oct 13, 2010)

EngTech1 said:


> *That's some real good Input , really appreciate that .
> 
> Dan*
> :beer:
> ...





Super Hans said:


> I seafoamed with the special U-nozzle at 12k. Got no smoke at all. 1/2 a can. Will do the other 1/2 next spring.


You can Seafoam every day of the week for seven months straight, it doesn't do a thing. A fellow officer buddy of mine who lives in Cold Spring Harbor NY has a 2.0T EOS. He Seafoamed it twice this year. (I helped him the first time.) The second time he did it himself and cracked his manifold somehow facepalm and had the dealership replace it under warranty. (He's good with that sort of thing.)

That same day he ran by the dealership a little early on the way home from work only to find that they had just started on his car and it wouldn't be ready until the next day. When he looked into his intake ports, (the manifold and all had been removed) he said they were so clogged and dirty with carbon, he told them to clean the ports and valves as well! They did the job but charged him $500.00 extra!  He told me the inside of his cracked intake manifold wasn't any better. He also said he will never buy that SeaCrap ever again or waste his time with "miracle juices out of a can"! That's how he said it.


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

ManTech said:


> You can Seafoam every day of the week for seven months straight, it doesn't do a thing. A fellow officer buddy of mine who lives in Cold Spring Harbor NY has a 2.0T EOS. He Seafoamed it twice this year. (I helped him the first time.) The second time he did it himself and cracked his manifold somehow facepalm and had the dealership replace it under warranty. (He's good with that sort of thing.)
> 
> That same day he ran by the dealership a little early on the way home from work only to find that they had just started on his car and it wouldn't be ready until the next day. When he looked into his intake ports, (the manifold and all had been removed) he said they were so clogged and dirty with carbon, he told them to clean the ports and valves as well! They did the job but charged him $500.00 extra!  He told me the inside of his cracked intake manifold wasn't any better. He also said he will never buy that SeaCrap ever again or waste his time with "miracle juices out of a can"! That's how he said it.


Any pix?


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## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

DO you have to rotate the engine to an 'all-valves-closed' position, or can you just take off the manifold and "have-at-it"?


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

VWAddict said:


> DO you have to rotate the engine to an 'all-valves-closed' position, or can you just take off the manifold and "have-at-it"?


Yes, you have to close the valves off by rotating the crank.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Just out of curiosity any idea what size socket is needed to turn the crank?
Been wondering about that


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

I didn't use a socket. You can just turn the crank pulley or belt if you got the muscle to do it. It helps to wear some mechanic gloves for better grip. You might want to empty your bowels before you do it so you don't **** your pants cause it isn't easy. But on the bright side you don't have to take the wheel off!


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

real men will just sh!t their pants :laugh:

Thanks for the tidbit :thumbup:


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> real men will just sh!t their pants :laugh:
> 
> Thanks for the tidbit :thumbup:


 :laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## VWAddict (Jun 12, 1999)

Worth pulling the spark plugs?

That would make turning the engine over somewhat simpler, plus I'm wondering how the plugs look. -I don't even recall right now what the standard replacement mileage is for them...?


----------



## VR6 BELIEVER (May 26, 2004)

EngTech1 said:


> *That's some real good Input , really appreciate that .
> 
> Dan*
> :beer:
> ...


Please stop using the Shift key... :banghead:


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

VWAddict said:


> Worth pulling the spark plugs?
> 
> That would make turning the engine over somewhat simpler, plus I'm wondering how the plugs look. -I don't even recall right now what the standard replacement mileage is for them...?


It wouldn't hurt.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

A3Tripod said:


> I'm taking it in to VW today to have them look at it. Of course when I called, they guessed it was emissions related. The CEL came on again last night...i think this makes 6 times now in the last month. I'll let you know if its manifold related.
> 
> 
> Trip to dealership #1
> ...


 I am not a DIY guy, but I do want to chime in on this manifold discussion. I recently had my intake manifold replaced under warrantee (40k miles) after 4 months of escalating engine problems which included rough idle, sputtering at low rpms when cold, and a nasty engine "hiccup" (hesitate/surge) at 2500rpms. To quote the tech notes, "the intake runner has broken from the adjustment lever". Is this the issue you guys are talking about with the flappers? Dealer told me some valve in the intake manifold was getting stuck and not opening and closing as designed. 

He aslo told me about a design issue with the older intake manifolds, that they were undated in 2009, and that he installed the newer intake manifold on my car. This sounds very much like what you were told. 

And finally, the dealer said I had a lot of carbon build up, and this is after they did a carbon build up clean with some agent. Dealer said he spent an hour scrapping the carbon off by hand.


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## [email protected]! (Dec 22, 2010)

3,000 miles after my warranty expired and p2015. :banghead: I wish I would have known about this problem as I would have definitely gotten an extended warranty. Anybody have luck with VW doing work right after warranty expiration?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

[email protected]! said:


> 3,000 miles after my warranty expired and p2015. :banghead: I wish I would have known about this problem as I would have definitely gotten an extended warranty. Anybody have luck with VW doing work right after warranty expiration?


 As a matter a fact, yes, they practically replaced my entire Passat engine under goodwill warranty. If your within 10k of expiration you have a good chance. The closer the better. Good relations with your shop helps...it all starts there. GL


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## wh4l3salad (Jun 20, 2010)

Hey steelcurtain, thanks a lot for the DIY!

There were few subtle differences for me, but overall, the guide was excellent. *Note: 2010 CBFA (California) 2.0TSI. @ 42,3xx miles* Removing the TB is indeed a pain in the ASS. Also, I had to pull on the manifold a lot harder than I imagined to pop it off of the injectors. All but one stayed in the block.

I originally used B12 Chemtool (slacked off on getting a more heavy duty cleanser). Made sure the valves were closed and started on cyl 1 and 2. Filled both runners to the tippy top and let it sit for 20 minutes. That alone did almost nothing. Eventually we started using pipe cleaners (these puppies from amazon, prime FTW!) and that did better. The final trick came from reading more of the comments in this thread: CLR. Sucking all the B12 out and then putting CLR in was insane. After 15 minutes and a bit of scrubbing, the valves were nearly immaculate. 

Then we pulled the spark plugs and spun the crank (from alternator belt) so we could get cyl 3 and 4. Poured CLR in, and it did nearly nothing. Even with lots of scrubbing with the brushes (not really wire, but nylon) it didn't really do anything. Seems the combination of B12 and CLR is what did it for me (never mixed them together actually, didn't want to pretend to pull a breaking bad and blow the garage up).

By this time it's 2am. My bud lost one of my throttle body bolts in the charge pipe leading down to the intercooler, so we jacked the car up (somehow got away with getting this far without doing that, and without removing the charge pipe). Pulled all that out and he used his little magnet wand to suck the bolt out of the intercooler (which was covered in oil, makes me wonder how much oil is sitting in my intercooler).

Next morning (this morning) I pulled the intake flap things out of a jug of CLR and my bud scraped as much gunk as he could off of them. I noticed that one side was easy to clean while the other was not. Almost as though one side was painted black. We got those puppies pretty clean, cleaned the face of the head where the intake mani makes contact, slid the flaps in, and got to work re-assembling everything.

Note, we had to remove my oil filter to slide the intake manifold in and out. Luckily we have these radtacular oil mounts where you can remove it and put it back without any problems.

Other miscellaneous notes that I can remember off the top of my head:



I opened and closed my car door (with lock/unlock added in) a few times after plugging the batt back in to prime the fuel system. Also went in and out of accessory mode a few times. Starting the car it cranked a lot longer than usual but eventually she started right up.
I did not have any M6 bolts underneath my manifold, just a single #10 12-point for the mounting bracket. I had two T30 bolts and two 10mm nuts on some long studs at the far right and left.


I double and triple checked everything. Happened to also have 4 new coilpacks, so replaced those since one had recently failed and the other two were probably on their way out. I was lucky to turn her on and have zero issues, no CEL, no misfires, nothing. The idle was a teeny bit rough for a few seconds, but I'd imagine that was due to working any air bubbles out of the fuel system, and any remaining gunk/crap on the valves.

Took her for a long drive today up into the Angeles National Forest. It was a beautiful day. The car pulls noticeably harder and feels new again. It makes different noises, its louder, and quite honestly just sounds healthier. I can hear my DV and my intake noise much, much better. This may be due to the fact that I removed the shroud from my BSH intake (it was wearing on a coolant line and is about to eat it completely away, time to sell it for a Carbonio or other alternative). But honestly my car sounds turbocharged now. I can hear it boosting perfectly. Everyone on the forums explains these things and I've never understood: now I do. I can hear the air going in, I can hear the DV doing its thing under light/heavy loads (a gentle hiss vs a louder one, etc... everything just feels much, much better after doing this.

My throttle pedal feels different though. I feel like I need to apply more pedal to achieve the same general cruising speed on the freeway. I will perform a throttle body adaptation via VCDS later (my bud cleaned my TB with a rag, it might be un-calibrated now) once my car cools down.

Phew, I know I am missing lots of details but if anyone has questions feel free to ask I'd love to offer my advice with anything as this was definitely the most intense thing I've done to my car to-date. Thanks again to the OP for putting this together!

ON TO THE PICTURES!!!










Doing work!


















Here was our cleaning setup. Plenty of rags to cover the injectors and it also provided a nice little work area to rest the brushes.









My bud is an aircraft mechanic (blackhawk helicopters, specifically) so he has all kinds of aircraft-precision tools. This is like a dental pick or something... we used a few of these to help pick some of the nastier **** off.









Here is before. All of mine were pretty damn horrible. I only had my iphone on me at the time that I took these shots, so sorry for the poor quality.









And this was after lots of scrubbing and the B12/CLR combo. Definitely could have gotten everything way cleaner with a stronger chemical. That is one bit of advice for those of you attempting this: always have the correct tools, that includes your cleanser. Get the right stuff and let it do the work for you!


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Glad to hear it all worked out. I'm not surprised on the subtle differences. The DIY was done on a 2008.5 build MKV TSI. I've noticed differences with the MKVI in terms of the FMIC install compared to the MKV but never had the chance to do a mani removal on the MKVI.


----------



## MK6GTI (Aug 1, 2009)

Nice write up :thumbup:


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Bumping this as it was about to hit the archives.
Im going to try and get this done in spring.


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Bumping this as it was about to hit the archives.
> Im going to try and get this done in spring.


Thanks V


----------



## VW MAFIA (Dec 3, 2011)

Those tsi intakes ar garbage, they have multiple problems with those flaps, but nice job


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

*Stopping to say thanks for this write-up *:thumbup:

We took my mani off yesterday to replace injectors 2 and 3. The 2011 CC has a couple new additions. The most notable was a metal arm and rubber support that connects the underside of the mani to the engine block. THAT THING WAS A PAIN and we ended up cutting the rubber piece.

I apologize for not taking any pictures, but I was at a friends house and forgot my camera at home :facepalm:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

jspirate said:


> *Stopping to say thanks for this write-up *:thumbup:
> 
> We took my mani off yesterday to replace injectors 2 and 3. The 2011 CC has a couple new additions. The most notable was a metal arm and rubber support that connects the underside of the mani to the engine block. THAT THING WAS A PAIN and we ended up cutting the rubber piece.
> 
> I apologize for not taking any pictures, but I was at a friends house and forgot my camera at home :facepalm:


 Glad it worked out for you. Thanks for sharing. :thumbup:


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

*Audi A3 105K miles TFSI*

I posted this in A3 forum but maybe this is better place to share. Here is how my TFSI looks at 105K miles. It was serviced by Audi mechanics untill 95K. I guess they never cleaned the intake.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

Evo V said:


> I posted this in A3 forum but maybe this is better place to share. Here is how my TFSI looks at 105K miles. It was serviced by Audi mechanics untill 95K. I guess they never cleaned the intake.


 Holy cow! That looks like sh!t!!!


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

jspirate said:


> Holy cow! That looks like sh!t!!!


 Indeed it was. It took me 1hr per cylinder to clean it.


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## defector (Nov 26, 2000)

I guess it would be obvious (or will be obvious) when I do this (I have 99,000 miles), but why do I need to remove the throttle body? I see no point in this unless it makes some other step easier. 

Jim


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

defector said:


> I guess it would be obvious (or will be obvious) when I do this (I have 99,000 miles), but why do I need to remove the throttle body? I see no point in this unless it makes some other step easier.
> 
> Jim


 To remove intake manifold you need to remove throttle body first. I didn't know about the intake build up so I cleaned the throttle body first. There was a build up there too, preventing the opening/closing. Anyway after this you have to do TB addaptation with VAG-com.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

defector said:


> I see no point in this unless it makes some other step easier.
> 
> Jim


 Bingo. It's a bitch with it on. Please report back if your successful. Post up if you have issues. GL


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

you guys all bitch about carbon buildup... try looking at a alh TDi with 60k on it and short trip driving ... ha 

j/k 

I just had one I cleaned at 42k miles and it was carboned up for sure


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

24vEngineer said:


> Thanks for the DIY. Removed the manifold and cleaned the ports and valves. Went back together with no problems.
> 
> :thumbup:


 
Any tips or tricks you would add to the DIY?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain I love you :heart:
cleaning my valves and installing my new intake manifold now


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> steelcurtain I love you :heart:
> cleaning my valves and installing my new intake manifold now


 Nice! Did you remove the TB or leave it on?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I removed it.
It looks like you have to remove the TB as two of the bolts are hidden behind it and would be damn near impossible to get to them without removing it.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I removed it.
> It looks like you have to remove the TB as two of the bolts are hidden behind it and would be damn near impossible to get to them without removing it.


 My thoughts too. 
You have no idea how many PMs I've received disputing that. Of course none of these people ha e actually performed the DIY.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Removing the TB really isnt that bad once you get the TB pipe out.

Here are some pictures from my weekend excursion.
Car had 71k miles
VTA CC
w/m











Cylinder 1








Cylinder 2








Cylinder 3








Cylinder 4









Crankshaft bolt (24mm) used to turn the motor over to open/clsoe valves









CLEAN











Friend with a FSI motor helped me this weekend, he just about **** himself when he saw how clean my valves were.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Also note that the FSI and TSI used different injector size o-rings and stuff, order the right replacement kit (found that out the hardway)


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Also note that the FSI and TSI used different injector size o-rings and stuff, order the right replacement kit (found that out the hardway)


 Do you actually replaced the o-rings? I bought a set for all 4 injectors but mine were good so now I just have them sitting around. I might replace them when I clean the valves again @150K. Yours look pretty damn clean. Good job! :beer::beer::beer:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

From most of the threads I have read and people I have talked to say to go ahead and change them while you have it open.
Might as well why you got them out of the motor.


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## toddhought (Jul 13, 2006)

Just had this done under warranty yesterday, car tossed the P2015 on me, and they did a full manifold replacement at the dealer. Inconvenient at the very least. But I like my mechanic, so I don't mind that much. 

As a side note, how many people have started to call VW and get their attention on this one, like the cam followers on the FSI's?


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

toddhought said:


> Just had this done under warranty yesterday, car tossed the P2015 on me, and they did a full manifold replacement at the dealer. Inconvenient at the very least. But I like my mechanic, so I don't mind that much.
> 
> As a side note, how many people have started to call VW and get their attention on this one, like the cam followers on the FSI's?


 I believe this is a well known issue for both fsi and tsi engines. AoA is quiet and doesn't want to address it. Someone mentioned that they offer free cleaning on RS4 and R8 models.


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## Code Red! (Sep 22, 2011)

Has anyone given any thought to using a 'product' of some type in the run-up to performing this DIY?

I know there are no products on the shelf that will magically clean the valves, but wondering if the following may help.

Start with your car at, say 50k miles. Add product X, let it clean, then change oil. At 55k miles do the same procedure again. At 60k miles you go in and clean the valves like the DIY... Would this help make the task any easier?


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## kaban (Nov 11, 2005)

coderedcomputing said:


> Has anyone given any thought to using a 'product' of some type in the run-up to performing this DIY?
> 
> I know there are no products on the shelf that will magically clean the valves, but wondering if the following may help.
> 
> Start with your car at, say 50k miles. Add product X, let it clean, then change oil. At 55k miles do the same procedure again. At 60k miles you go in and clean the valves like the DIY... Would this help make the task any easier?


I'm currently doing this with seafoam. I run 1/3 can of seafoam through the intake manifold before i do an oil change so every 5k miles or so.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

seafoam doesnt do ****


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## defector (Nov 26, 2000)

You absolutely don't need to remove the throttle body. I didn't on my FSI engine (2008 VW Passat). 

As stated on a different, separate thread, I also noticed no difference in performance after cleaning. 

None. 

Not worth the effort for me. It may be worth the effort on your engine. 

Jim


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## progrock (Sep 14, 2003)

First off, I had this issue at ~41k (P2015). I was out of my 36k warranty, and did not have an extra warranties.

With that said, I had the dealership replace my intake a little over 2 months ago. After arguing over the phone (over about a day and a half), the dealer did confirm that this problem was still warrantied (not sure if it was part of the drive train warranty, OR if it was a special case where this specific issue had an extended warranty).. wither way, the intake was replaced for free.

They did get me for $189 to do a valve cleaning while the intake was off. Not sure if they did a good job or not, but was OK with me considering I only paid for that and 2 test drives (YES, they charged me $12 a pop for test drives).

They also told me I needed new spark plugs, which I was about to put in myself, so I refused that service. I drove the car home 10 miles, it was misfiring pretty bad.

I broke my collar bone and the car was off the road for 2 months, but the other day I finally got around to doing the spark plugs... while they definitely needed to be changed, there was absolutely no change with the misfiring. It appeared to be a vacuum leak, so I brought it back to VW, figuring they screwed something up.

Anyway, after a lot of back and forth, VW is telling me its the coil packs. I'm skeptical that this is the only issue causing the misfire, but due to some back and forth over the last few days (they tried to tell me I need to do a Valve cleaning, and replace the spark plugs, as well as coils..... after 3 phone calls they finally realized the spark plugs were brand new, and that they did the valve cleaning 10 miles ago!)....

After some heated conversation, the dealer is now replacing my coils for half price (was ~250, they are charging me ~125). Given I could do the coils myself, but I already paid for the tow, and at least I'm getting half off.

I'm still skeptical that there are not other issues. My good friend, and mechanic, thinks it could be an issue with the PCV valve (I think VW calls it the crank case regulation valve). But time will tell, I should know later today whether or not it was just the coils.


I do have one question. In this photo: http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/steelcurtain_4550/Manifold Removal/IMG_0338.jpg

If you look below the red arrow, close to the bottom of the image, there appears to be a missing air house, or something similar. The dealer is telling me that's meant to just be open air on my car (my friend is skeptical).. can anyone confirm this either way? (I have a 2009 GTI, MKV TSI)


Thank you, and good luck to anyone else doing this. I would definitely check with your dealership to see if the replacement manifold and service is covered under warranty (after 36k, that is. It absolutely was for me..)

Bob


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

progrock said:


> I'm still skeptical that there are not other issues. My good friend, and mechanic, thinks it could be an issue with the PCV valve (I think VW calls it the crank case regulation valve). But time will tell, I should know later today whether or not it was just the coils.


The PCV doesn't go bad on the TSI, there was problems with the PCv on the FSi though. 



progrock said:


> I do have one question. In this photo: http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/steelcurtain_4550/Manifold Removal/IMG_0338.jpg
> 
> If you look below the red arrow, close to the bottom of the image, there appears to be a missing air house, or something similar. The dealer is telling me that's meant to just be open air on my car (my friend is skeptical).. can anyone confirm this either way? (I have a 2009 GTI, MKV TSI)
> 
> ...


Assuming you are talking about the thing on the far right of the intake manifold? Thats just part of the casting, its not actually a hole.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

to progroc: I had missfire on couple cylinders after the cleaning due to small deposits that fell here and there during the manual cleaning. What I did is, I put a injector cleaner (or seafoam) into the gas tank and ran about a full tank of gas in couple of days. No more missfiring after that.


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## progrock (Sep 14, 2003)

ViRtUaLheretic, I circled what I am referring to. It appears to be an actual hole, and after getting my car back from geting the intake manifold replaced, there was nothing attached to it. I think I might have noticed this earlier, and though ti was odd.. but I;m thinking that it may not have anything on it. (My friend is thinking there was just supposed to be an end cap... but he's not 100% sure). The dealers tells em its just supposed to be open air.. but I;ve learned not to trust the dealer at all.











Also, if the PCV problem does not occur on the TSI, is there anything else that may likely cause this. I'm just really skeptical that all 4 coils just happened to go bad right after this service, and there's nothing else messed up. Again, I'm sure I'll hear back from VW by tomorrow.. just, very skeptical. I'm kinda expecting a call back tomorrow with bad news.

Thanks,

Bob


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

progrock said:


>


The red arrow is pointing at the engine removal lift point. 

The circled area, from what I understand is normal for the CBFA engine code. Thats exactly how mine looks and ever other cbfa does. From what I've heard the CCTA engine code utilizes it I've never confirmed that as I've never seen a CCTA since I'm in California. 



Sent from my iDevice


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

progrock said:


> ViRtUaLheretic, I circled what I am referring to. It appears to be an actual hole, and after getting my car back from geting the intake manifold replaced, there was nothing attached to it. I think I might have noticed this earlier, and though ti was odd.. but I;m thinking that it may not have anything on it. (My friend is thinking there was just supposed to be an end cap... but he's not 100% sure). The dealers tells em its just supposed to be open air.. but I;ve learned not to trust the dealer at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
This is exactly what I was referring to, its part of the casting and does not actually go all the way through the intake manifold.
Dont believe me? try to jam a pipe cleaner in it, only the tip will fit (just for a second, just to see how it feels :laugh.


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## progrock (Sep 14, 2003)

Thank you. I was pretty sure that was normal, my friend/mechanic was saying he thought there wqas something there (guessing he's just worked on the other slightly different 2.0's, and just never encountered this one, that has it open air.

On the othe hand, I'll have to double check, there appeared to be vacuum presure from that spot... is there a possibility they put on the wrong intake manifold on my car, and the one on it is meant for a diferent version that does utilize this?

Just trying to figure out WTF was wrong with the car, it really seems like a vaxuum leak causing crazy misfiring, but the dealer was confident it was coils (needless to say, I don't trust the dealer)


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

FSI intake manifold is different and wouldnt bolt up on your car.
See if you can tighten any of hte bolts down, might have something lose causing a leak.
Run some logs on the car to see what the underlying issue is.


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## progrock (Sep 14, 2003)

Its currently at a VW dealership being serviced. I'm just very skeptical that my massive misfires are due to all 4 coils going bad at once... and the last thing that was done to the car (literally 10 miles ago) was replacing the intake manifold and a valve cleaning.. since then, the car has never ran without crazzy misfires.

Thanks again,

Bob


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## progrock (Sep 14, 2003)

OK, finally heard back from the dealer, and I was definitely right in thinking "a day and ahalf is way too long to replace 4 coils"

Anyway, they replaced the coils at a discounted rate.. most likely realized "oh ****, that didn't fix anything"... so they ended up replaceing the intake manifold, AGAIN. 

Supposively the car is running clean, they say there's a check engine on (I have that random fuel gauge dropping to 0 problem... ) but they want to charge me $!50 for another diagnosis, if they go any further.

Baswically, after all this, if the cars running good, I'm just getting it out of there, and to my friends shop... I trust them a lotmore.

Bob


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

This all sounds shady. They prob had a air leak from the manifold bein removed causing all cyls to misfire. Doesn't take much. I know the hard way and was stranded for hours out of the state and in a massive storm. Fun times.


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## progrock (Sep 14, 2003)

VERY shady... let alone the 3 wrong diagnosis... and the fact that "its definitely the coils".... "we did the coils, AND we also did the air intake, AGAIN, because it was awarrantied".... clearly the coils DID NOT fix the issue.

BUT, $110 for coils... what are they, like $20 a piece usually... I'm sure it won't hurt, and its cheap enough installed for me to be happy.

Bob


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

progrock said:


> VERY shady... let alone the 3 wrong diagnosis... and the fact that "its definitely the coils".... "we did the coils, AND we also did the air intake, AGAIN, because it was awarrantied".... clearly the coils DID NOT fix the issue.
> 
> BUT, $110 for coils... what are they, like $20 a piece usually... I'm sure it won't hurt, and its cheap enough installed for me to be happy.
> 
> Bob


Yep, 20-$25 for the red ones. Takes 15minutes to swap.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

progrock said:


> OK, finally heard back from the dealer, and I was definitely right in thinking "a day and ahalf is way too long to replace 4 coils"
> 
> Anyway, they replaced the coils at a discounted rate.. most likely realized "oh ****, that didn't fix anything"... so they ended up replaceing the intake manifold, AGAIN.
> 
> ...


 So how is your car running? 

And what did it feel like to drive with the misfires? I have a persistent misfire right at 2700 rpms that no one can diagnose. I had it before having my intake manifold replaced and afterwards. And the coils and plugs and carbon clean. Here is a link to my ongoing saga (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5606974-Engine-hiccup-at-2750k).


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## chuckster1 (Mar 7, 2001)

I recently had my intake manifold replaced under warranty (My Wolfie is a CPO) and asked about the valve cleaning. Service manager said $400. Called me back after they started the manifold swap and he said because the valves weren't that bad and they already had the manifold off they would do it for $98. I gave the go ahead. I had 58K on my TSI so looks like I'm good for another 60K!


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## theronin (Aug 6, 2012)

hooray for rezing a dead thread. but to OP (if you are still around) do you recommend gm top engine cleaner over say berrymans B12?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

theronin said:


> hooray for rezing a dead thread. but to OP (if you are still around) do you recommend gm top engine cleaner over say berrymans B12?


I have no experience with berrymans do can't say. But you can't go wrong with the GM cleaner though. Great stuff. I didn't even use a whole can.


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## tampa_mk5 (May 9, 2011)

steelcurtain said:


> But you can't go wrong with the GM cleaner though. Great stuff. I didn't even use a whole can.


X2 :thumbup:


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## skibi (Feb 18, 2007)

I'll second on GM cleaner.... 
Took me about 8 hours to clean those ports. Do NOT want to do it ever again....


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## MMMH2O (Oct 24, 2004)

*TB reset after manifold replacement*

Had the intake manifold replaced in August after getting the CEL (P2015). Drove it and had worse gas consumption...24 mpg on Tiguan vs previous 28 mpg. Had several engine fault warnings out on a trip in Wyoming. Took it to the dealership in Casper and they thought it was bad wiring to TB. Read where you need to do a TB reset after disconnecting the battery. I did that by inserting key in ignition and turning to Accessory position, holding down the pedal for 2 minutes, turning key to off, and restarting. Resets 0 to 100% TB setting in computer. Now back to 28 to 30 mpg on highway driving. Two cents..do the free reset and see if that helps.


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## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

So i drive a 09 CC with a TSI and i've had a cold start rough idle and misfires that have been getting worse. After changing the plugs and coils i took it to my mechanic and he did an injection cleaning AND after that didn't work he replaced the injector. I was getting the P0302 code. This didn't help either so i decided to take it home and scrub the valves even tho he said that they were fine. What i found when i got the intake manifold off was that the injector he replaced was the second from the left.

I have 3 questions.

for the P0302 code, should he be replacing the one he did or the one on the right as i believe the firing order is 1-3-4-2? 

The new injector is the only injector that came out of the engine block. Do i need to buy a reseal kit for that injector?

Should i replace the other injector while i have the manifold off?


I'm planning on finishing the job this afternoon.


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## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

dougfalk said:


> So i drive a 09 CC with a TSI and i've had a cold start rough idle and misfires that have been getting worse. After changing the plugs and coils i took it to my mechanic and he did an injection cleaning AND after that didn't work he replaced the injector. I was getting the P0302 code. This didn't help either so i decided to take it home and scrub the valves even tho he said that they were fine. What i found when i got the intake manifold off was that the injector he replaced was the second from the left.
> 
> I have 3 questions.
> 
> ...


I went through and replaced the combustion chamber ring (white ring) on the injector, cleaned the valves and voila! Car runs exceptionally well. Thanks for the DIY steelcurtain! Wouldn't have been able to tackle it without it!


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

dougfalk said:


> I went through and replaced the combustion chamber ring (white ring) on the injector, cleaned the valves and voila! Car runs exceptionally well. Thanks for the DIY steelcurtain! Wouldn't have been able to tackle it without it!


Awesome! I flagged your post yesterday to follow up this morning; glad to see you worked it out. I think it is safe to say that if you pull the mani and the injectors come out of the head, then the seals are bad. 

Amazing this DIY still hasn't been sticky'd by the vortex mods. This is the only VW forum that hasn't and it's the only DIY available IIRC.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Ive been trying to get the TSI FAQ stickied for how long now?


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## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

steelcurtain said:


> Awesome! I flagged your post yesterday to follow up this morning; glad to see you worked it out. I think it is safe to say that if you pull the mani and the injectors come out of the head, then the seals are bad.
> 
> Amazing this DIY still hasn't been sticky'd by the vortex mods. This is the only VW forum that hasn't and it's the only DIY available IIRC.


Definitely needs to be sticky'd. And with the amount of people having this issue, it's shocking that my VW/Audi mechanic and the dealer didn't feel like the valves were a potential issue. I'm just glad it's done with... for now...


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## MK6GTI (Aug 1, 2009)

This should definitely be stickied... especially due to the number of people this helped out. 

:thumbup:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

MK6GTI said:


> This should definitely be stickied... especially due to the number of people this helped out.
> 
> :thumbup:


:thumbup:


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## zrickety (Aug 29, 2012)

Thanks for the great how-to. My 09 goes in to the dealer tomorrow, they say this manifold swap will take all day. But covered under powertrain at 49k, so I'll let them do it. I just hope the latest revision lasts longer than this.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

zrickety said:


> Thanks for the great how-to. My 09 goes in to the dealer tomorrow, they say this manifold swap will take all day. But covered under powertrain at 49k, so I'll let them do it. I just hope the latest revision lasts longer than this.


Thanks man. I recommend you clean the valves while they are replacing. probably won't be covered under warranty though.


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## ifhn166 (Mar 12, 2004)

I have a 09 CC with 73K miles. Recently I've been experiencing a rough idle on a cold start & CEL. The mechanic said it was a misfire. Replaced ignition coils & did a fuel system cleaning. Ran fine for about a day and same issue started again. Back to the shop. Replaced spark plug in cylinder 4. Ran fine for about a day and same issue started again. Back to the shop. Replaced all the spark plugs. Ran fine for about a day and same issue started again. Diagnosed a leak on the intake manifold at cylinder 4 and a bad sensor on the manifold. Replaced intake manifold, gasket & cleaned the valves. Still had a rough idle at start. Further diagnosis indicated that the fuel injector 4 was not working properly. So they tore it apart again and replaced the fuel injector. Rough idle at start & CEL was back after two days. Misfire in cylinder 4. The misfire goes away after the engine warms up. Injector tested fine. Replaced spark plugs with a different brand. Still misfiring on a cold start. They smoked tested it. Ignition coils are performing as expected. Lastest news is that the car is losing a few pounds of fuel pressure from the high pressure mechanical fuel pump. :banghead:


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## Mad09Tig (Jul 30, 2010)

This is a really nice write up. Thanks steelcurtain! I bought my Tig 2 years ago used with 15k on the clock. At about 24k I got a epc fault and took it in. I got a lot of the same bs most of you did. "We cleaned the intake manifold, it has carbon build up yada yada. 2 times after that they replaced the intake manifold. This was around 28k. Reflash and 50k later I'm at 73K and I just got the intake manifold flapper fault. Getting my mani in Friday and I would like to fix it over the weekend. Sucks that this design is so poor and the only fix VW has is to sell the manifold for cheap. I wish that catch can setup was cheaper cause that would be nice to have. I have to check my tool box but I think I already have a few triple square tools in there from past projects. I like my VW but I dont like the thought that I will need to do this fix every 30 to 50k.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Thanks man. I thought they got that issue fixed
With updated manifold? You could delete the flappers and trick the actuator so no cel. But that's more involved and may have worse cold start issues.


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## gsprobe (Jan 29, 2006)

Hey all- Thanks for this thread!! What could prevent a full teardown and cleaning?

A catch can installed when new? Seafoam? 

I really don't want to take apart the intake and head to manually scrape the pistons and valves while parked in my office parking garage


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

^ nothing really due to the return gases from EVAP. CC's and meth help do does seafoam but it will still buildup and need to be removed at some point. 

You don't have to pull head and scrape pistons. Lol. You Just habe to follow this DIY.


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## passatjim (Nov 10, 2012)

*Trying to removed manifold on 2008 passat*

I followed the steps outline on this forum but for some reason I can't seem to pull the manifold off of the engine. The only thing that I have not taken loose are the fuel sensor and the valve on 1 &2.

I thought if I could pull the man out a little ways it might be easiler to do.

I can rock it up & down but can not pull it straight - (even tho it will allow me to pull out just a little.

I can't seem to see the problem. could those two item cause this. They look like they are connect to the main unit and would come off all together.

If any one has a ideal I would be most graftful!:banghead:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

passatjim said:


> I followed the steps outline on this forum but for some reason I can't seem to pull the manifold off of the engine. The only thing that I have not taken loose are the fuel sensor and the *valve on 1 &2*.


What do you mean valve on 1 & 2?
Did you disconnect the fuel hardline?

Did you remove the support brace from under the manifold?
Upload some pictures.


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## Mad09Tig (Jul 30, 2010)

Took a lot of tugging and pulling but I got my manifold off. Only problem was 2 of the fuel rail bolt sleeve got broken off and I damaged a o-ring some how. I had put it back together and it was leaking fuel like crazy. Just ordered a new fuel rail and o-rings. I thought it was going to be simple but at least I'm getting my hands dirty!


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Mad09Tig said:


> Took a lot of tugging and pulling but I got my manifold off. Only problem was 2 of the fuel rail bolt sleeve got broken off and I damaged a o-ring some how. I had put it back together and it was leaking fuel like crazy. Just ordered a new fuel rail and o-rings. I thought it was going to be simple but at least I'm getting my hands dirty!


Learning the hard way happens to all of us. Sorry to hear about your misfortune.


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## Mad09Tig (Jul 30, 2010)

Oh it's all good. I haven't worked on a car since my old Honda back when I was swapping motors and clutches. I got a few scratches from working on the VW and I actually smiled at them cause now we are really becoming one. I know that sounds crazy but I don't like other people touching my car still. If I mess something up I dont have anyone but myself to blame.


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## siegfried (Sep 19, 2006)

steelcurtain, how many miles did you have on your GTI when you cleaned the manifold?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

siegfried said:


> steelcurtain, how many miles did you have on your GTI when you cleaned the manifold?


Around 50-55K IIRC.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*OK-OK*



steelcurtain said:


> Thanks man. I thought they got that issue fixed
> With updated manifold? You could delete the flappers and trick the actuator so no cel. But that's more involved and may have worse cold start issues.


_*Trick the Actuator - How So ?

Delete the Flappers - How So ?

Please use Detailed - Technical Info , thanks . :beer:
*_


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

EngTech1 said:


> _*Trick the Actuator - How So ?
> 
> Delete the Flappers - How So ?
> 
> ...


I wish I knew the details as I would post them up. I know it can be done since APR and USP has done it.


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Well gives Me a Place to check out*

So I never hear of the Guys with Vag - Chiming - in saying ; Oh Ya We corrected that !

Do they even have a way to _*Set - ECU into - Ready Mode*_ , so one doesn't have to Drive 
The Dam Car : 80-100 miles to see If What did 
Worked to correct the Issue - ? :screwy:


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Yes, one can clear stored faults/codes using a VAG-COM unit. You can also use of a million different OBD 2 devices or even the cruise control stalk buttons if you have an APR ECU flash. I believe APR and other tuners are modifying the ECU flash, not using a VAG-COM type setting change to avoid a CEL with the intake flapper removed/deleted/disabled.

Forgot to add... Are you trying to clear codes or set the emissions checks to the ready state? Forcing the emissions checks to ready isn't generally available to the public as it would be a clear violation of the various EPA, Federal, and State emissions laws. Besides trying to pass an emissions check why would forcing the checks to ready be such a big deal to you? 

You keep going on and on about the intake manifold code and readiness checks/clearing codes in every post that you make, even when the thread isn't about those subjects. Sorry to call you out publicly, but your posts are really getting old. If you are that upset about the intake manifold issues, call VW!


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

EngTech1 said:


> So I never hear of the Guys with Vag - Chiming - in saying ; Oh Ya We corrected that !
> 
> Do they even have a way to Set - ECU into - Ready Mode , so one doesn't have to Drive
> The Dam Car : 80-100 miles to see If What did
> Worked to correct the Issue - ? :screwy:


Sorry if I wasn't helpful in my previous reply... Look in the VAG-COM sub forum on this site. There is a thread describing how to set emissions readiness checks using the Rosstech VAG-COM HW/SW. I didn't check into all of the details, but is looks like it is viable for quite a range of models and years. Not sure why you need to do so, unless you have an inspection coming up, but hope that the information helps. 

Thanks


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Yes, that is a Nice - Write Up*

Yes, that is a Nice - Write Up !

A Few Pic's would have been Super Good .


Well I think I found a Way to Lick the ECU - ( Get Ready ) were going to Screw You for 
$59.95 for a 1 Time Push the Button at VW - Another $89.95 to tell You what Wrong , and then We'll
Charge You what Ever to Fix - It - BS .

I Simply Soaked and Sprayed the - H - out of the Intake & Flapper Valve Controller & 
Vacuum Lines : _*No Codes - Go get Inspected !

OK, Thanks for Your - Input - *_CEL with the Intake flapper removed/deleted/disabled.
Understood about NOT AVAILABLE to PUBLIC - is total BS - IMHO .

Hears Why If one was to due that - It could be Flagged as done in last 20 Days - a Clock Mode
Allowed or Not allowed .

General Public is Being Forced to Go Dealer , then the Dealers are Abusing this Power and making all kinds of Request for Repair or to Simplify Not Passing the Car - 
Unless You Dump around $200.00 in Their Pockets .


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*OK , but I hadn't heard - If it was Fixed !*

OK , but I hadn't heard If it was Fixed !

Anyway - I took some Cleaner - seems like strong stuff, and did the Manifold and Vacuum Lines .

Got the ECU to do a reset to ready , Long enough to get Inspected .

Now it seems I also have a E-vap - Hope that's a Fuel Cap ?

Maybe there's a way to Burn that - Out - Vaporize It : lol

Any Idea's much appreciated , Thanks


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## siegfried (Sep 19, 2006)

EngTech1 said:


> OK , but I hadn't heard If it was Fixed !
> 
> Anyway - I took some Cleaner - seems like strong stuff, and did the Manifold and Vacuum Lines .
> 
> ...


 You write - Funny ! :beer: 
Can't Help you - Sorry


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Very Nice Write Up - one of the Best*

My Engine sounds Better Now - I Think ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxJ2Ok_X8iM


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## EngTech1 (Nov 30, 2008)

*If anyone has a Diag*

_*Anyone throw up a E-Vap Diagram - would be Appreciated , Thanks*_


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

EngTech1 said:


> _*Anyone throw up a E-Vap Diagram - would be Appreciated , Thanks*_


 file is legit 
http://www.2shared.com/complete/TTTnNAMP/SSP_824803_20tsi.html


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## srbeards (Oct 26, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> file is legit
> http://www.2shared.com/complete/TTTnNAMP/SSP_824803_20tsi.html


Nice. Any chance of getting the one for the FSI?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

ask and ye shall receive:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/golfgoodies/mk5golfengine.pdf


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## Bthasht (Oct 6, 2011)

Just did this to my 09 CC with 60k. The job sucked,but used this as a guide in case I got stuck. Worked. Done in 3 hours.:thumbup:


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## zrickety (Aug 29, 2012)

Nice. Did you reuse the manifold and gasket? Does anyone know if the exhaust valves get the buildup too?


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## Bthasht (Oct 6, 2011)

I replaced manifold. Got the lovely flapper motor code. So replaced it. 

Sent from old rotary pay phone


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## camarkim (Mar 11, 2004)

Here's my saga. 33K on my 2010 CC 2.0t, 6 speed manual. Bought brand new which included 3 years free maintanence (basically 3 oil changes and inspections). Have had the manifold replaced twice, both times under warranty and I think the first time they did not use the updated part number. Second time they did.

Flash forward to 12/2012. Got CEL, used my Vag-Com to find a P0303 code. Took it to dealer, who said intake carbon buildup and that it would be $600.00 to fix. I said no thanks. They cleared the code and I went on my way.

Last week, (2/2013) CEL returned. P0303 code again. This time misfiring was worse. Took it back to dealer. Same story. Gonna be mega-bucks $$$, and not covered under warranty. I argued a bit with the service tech as the car had drivability issues. Then I spoke with the service manager who said that intake valve cleaning is not covered because it is due to gasoline. But I say (again) that the car is unsafe (I.e.-rough idle/almost stalling, bucking at freeway speeds, etc.) I also let him know that I think it should be covered under bumper to bumper warranty, as there is still about 3K left on warranty. He says, but isn't it a '09? I say it's a 2010. Then he says, "Well, it was probably manufactured in 2009". Then I say, "Maybe, but that doesn't matter because I took delivery in August 2010." I also said I was ready to call VWCustomer Care, BBB Mediation, and Consumer Affairs if need be. (This sequence is explained in the warranty section of your owners manual). He finally says that he will put a request in to VW to see if they will cover it, and to keep my fingers crossed. I get the feeling that the service techs/managers are instructed to tell people that it is not covered, and see which suckers will pay the $600.00. If a customer argues, they then offer to pay partially, which gives the customer the sense that they are getting a good deal and that the dealer is going out of their way for them. But the warranty expressly states that wear/tear items and routine maintanence items are not included. Intake valve carbon buildup is neither of these things, so I believe it should be covered especially when you're popping CELs and the car is nearly undriveable during the warranty period. The car would not pass smog or inspection like this.

Long story short, VW authorized the work. And while I was waiting for the car to be finished, I also asked them to fix the cracked black plastic strip between the trunk lid and rear window. Apparently tons of these are cracking, and the updated part is metal. Thankfully a Vortex member had put the updated part number on a separate thread, which the dealer claimed to have no knowledge of until I gave them the part number. Its now on order. All in all, a pretty good day. 

The take away? Be prepared to fight for your rights; just because your car is still under warranty, don't believe the dealer/service tech/service manager won't try to chisel out of it; read the warranty; use your Vag-Com; keep all your records; share info on Vortex, etc. and be prepared to contact VW Customer Care and BBB if need be.

Good luck everyone!

*EDIT: THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS!* I spoke too soon. I drove the car this morning, and not only was it worse, but the EPC light came on and the car went into limp mode. I couldn't limp it home to scan with Vag-Com, as I barely made it back to the dealer. What a joke! Stay tuned.

*EDIT NUMBER 2:* The dealer kept the car for a couple of days and drove it for around 35 miles. The service manager actually became very friendly/apologetic and loaned me a new Passat 3.6. Nice car, but too big and heavy! Anyway, they finally diagnosed a faulty coil on #3 cylinder. Car has been driven moderately the past few days, and seems fine. Ran a Vag-Com scan and everything seems good. Fingers crossed! I have to say...if this works out, then I got a free intake cleaning, new plugs, new black metal strip between the trunk and back window, and the car seems quicker. (Supposedly there was a ton of carbon buildup). Sorry for the long posts, but hopefully this story helps someone else in the future.


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## HF07 (Oct 13, 2009)

Many thanks to steelcurtain for the write up and answering my questions. :beer:

Got my manifold off today, 49K on the car, about 40K stage 2. 


























































One injector came out with the manifold(looks dirty/clogged?!).


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

^thanks buddy. Def replace that seal.


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## passatwagon08 (Apr 17, 2008)

*Help*

Well now it is my car, had flashing check engine light come up on car when was in cruise control doing 110 up a hill, turnt the cruise control off and eccelarated and stopped flashing didnt think much of it as got tiny hole in exhaust. Drove around for a little bit couple days later now the engine light is constantly on took into place to get error report and the intake manifold sensor error code 008213 showed up, spoke to dealer they want to have a look at the car the car is out of warranty as it is a 08 passat tsi wagon. Now what i want to know is am i still able to drive the car? Is there anything i can do to car like reset throttle body etc it has apr stage 1. I cant do too much work on car as in a wheelchair and cant really get under it in it to do engine work. HELP PLEASE someone.


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## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

Just wanted to say I appreciate this thread. 

Took my car to the dealer to have codes checked - came back needed to replace manifold so I opted to do it rather than pay the dealer over 1100 to clean the valves and replace the manifold. I worked from 10 am to 7 pm - took about 1hr-15 min to clean each cylinder. Car drives like night and day now. 

I had to make a special injector remover tool from a 9/16" socket and a bolt to get 2 injectors out without damaging them, but that was probably the hardest part to the whole thing. 

I just wanted to add it is best to take off oil filter to give more room for intake removal as a little connector to the flapper hits the oil filter. I also found that carburetor cleaner works better than the VW/Audi solvent and sea foam to remove gunk. 

Catch can is on its way!


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## thanos.tka (Mar 13, 2012)

procket2_8 said:


> Just wanted to say I appreciate this thread.
> 
> Took my car to the dealer to have codes checked - came back needed to replace manifold so I opted to do it rather than pay the dealer over 1100 to clean the valves and replace the manifold. I worked from 10 am to 7 pm - took about 1hr-15 min to clean each cylinder. Car drives like night and day now.
> 
> ...


 

I have an 09 CC with heavy misfire and sure enough after taking the manifold off i couldn't believe the build up..... 

When i took the manifold off two injectors came with it..... Upon reassembly is it easier to remove the two form the manifold install them on the block and then the manifold? 

Got pictures of your make shift tool?


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## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

Sure do! 










My middle 2 injectors pulled out so I had to make the tool to remove the 2 end injectors. I wanted to replace all the seals and make sure all the injectors were clean after the whole procedure. I learned my lesson a long time ago about half-assing things likes this. 

It is a little rough because I was hurrying to get it done, and my die grinder was running out of cutting wheel. I used a 9/16 socket - cut the section out, fits snug around plastic injector base. Used a M8 long cap head with the head ground down to use as the slide hammer portion of the tool. put 2 closed end wrenches on the the bolt shank with a nut on the end as a stop and hammered them out. 

Be very careful when replacing the teflon seal - they are delicate so take time and work it on. 

I pulled out so much crap from my valves - compresssed air is also your friend when doing it.


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## thanos.tka (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks for posting up pictures..... I was having a rough time removing them form the manifold until i separated the manifold from the fuel rail. 

Then i was able to get a firm grip on the injectors and carefully pull them out by hand. Now time to reassemble the thing......


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

What are the symptoms requiring the manifold to be replaced? Going to clean the valves on a 2010 GTI with over 90,000 miles for misfiring when cold. Since the manifold comes off for that, should I put a new one on?


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

onevrsix said:


> Resolved the issue yesterday, it was my spark plugs. Car runs like a raped ape! absolutely astounding. First time I've been able to actually feel/enjoy my stage two tune. eace:
> Many thanks for the DIY, before this I was blowing out the nipple that is attached to the pressure actuated arm, and upon removal of the manifold I noticed that the flaps just didn't work.
> My fingers are still healing and despite starting with gloves they were torn and tattered beyond usefulness by the end, which resulted in an excessive amount of engine grime cracked under my fingernails :laugh: oh the joy's of owning a VW; rear brakes and oil change on deck for next weekend. :thumbup:


Wow, almost exactly 2 years & 50k miles later and we meet again :banghead:
I need a valve cleaning in the worse way


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

atikovi said:


> What are the symptoms requiring the manifold to be replaced? Going to clean the valves on a 2010 GTI with over 90,000 miles for misfiring when cold. Since the manifold comes off for that, should I put a new one on?


No need to replaces mani unless you have the flapper code or older version. May need new gasket. I would replace with that many miles. 

The symptoms are what you described, general misfires during driving and loss of power.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

Is this the fuel pressure sensor in step 2?










If so, how does that connector come off? I tried squeezing it and pulling that tab, but it wont come off.


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## thanos.tka (Mar 13, 2012)

I found a flat head srewdriver from the bottom of the connector slide it in the latch mechanism and you can gently unlatch it.... Its the common VW audi connector.... its just upside down....


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

That worked thanks.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

I got the manifold out but 2 injectors came with it. Guess I'll deal with it later. Three of the cylinders look like this:










and #2 like this:










Why is that one wet looking?

Next step is cleaning. Might use walnut shells like BMW does on it's engines. Would it make sense to send out the injectors for ultrasonic cleaning while everything is apart?


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

I took a closer look at the 2 injectors that came out. As you can see they are pretty dirty with a few holes even covered up with carbon so that not even the on the car cleaners would fix that. I'm thinking any driveability problems the car has, can at least be attributed to the injectors, so just cleaning the valves only solves half the issues if you don't address the injectors too.










I'm going to get the tools to remove the injectors in the head and then send them out for cleaning.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

atikovi said:


> I took a closer look at the 2 injectors that came out. As you can see they are pretty dirty with a few holes even covered up with carbon so that not even the on the car cleaners would fix that. I'm thinking any driveability problems the car has, can at least be attributed to the injectors, so just cleaning the valves only solves half the issues if you don't address the injectors too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is #2 on the right? There are known Injector issues with TSI. You might just want to replace it. If you buy a new injector than it comes with the new seals and all. Pull the rest and replace seals if needed with repair kit.


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## GreenBay2010CC (Jun 25, 2013)

*2010 VW CC Intake Manifold - code 2015*

My VW CC is 34 months old, 103k miles on it so far (by yours truly). CEL came on, right after 100k service. Dealer says intake manifold damper stuck. $600 w/4.1 hrs labor. I think - well how hard can that be? I refused the service, and bought the manifold part 06J133201AS ($190 w/tax).

At first, there were no real symptoms - ran just a little rough at idle is all. Ran fine at speed. Acceleration and mpg normal). This morning, I could barely start it, and it died as I was pulling out of the driveway. It is driveable after it warms up.

Here's my dilemma - do I just let the dealer do it for $$$, or wait till this weekend to have a coworker - who's a VW guy help me swap the manifold? (If you're reading - Hi Bob!)

Seeing some of the other issues you guys are running into - scares me into thinking I should just take it in...

I'm mechanically inclined - I've rebuilt my motorcycle carbs, and used to fix my Honda Civic Si regularly, but I'm not so sure this is worth the hassle. How would you rank this in difficulty from 1 being easy to 10 being hardest? And really??? 4.1 hours?? On the surface, it doesn't look that hard to do...


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

steelcurtain said:


> Is #2 on the right? There are known Injector issues with TSI. You might just want to replace it. If you buy a new injector than it comes with the new seals and all. Pull the rest and replace seals if needed with repair kit.


Didn't keep track which is which. At about $500 for a set of injectors vs. $100 cleaning these plus $25 for a set of seal kits it's a no brainer. What are these known issues you speak of?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

atikovi said:


> Didn't keep track which is which. At about $500 for a set of injectors vs. $100 cleaning these plus $25 for a set of seal kits it's a no brainer. What are these known issues you speak of?


They leak.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> They leak.


I got a used set for sale if you want to replace all 4. $200. I'll even throw in repair kits.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

GreenBay2010CC said:


> My VW CC is 34 months old, 103k miles on it so far (by yours truly). CEL came on, right after 100k service. Dealer says intake manifold damper stuck. $600 w/4.1 hrs labor. I think - well how hard can that be? I refused the service, and bought the manifold part 06J133201AS ($190 w/tax).
> 
> At first, there were no real symptoms - ran just a little rough at idle is all. Ran fine at speed. Acceleration and mpg normal). This morning, I could barely start it, and it died as I was pulling out of the driveway. It is driveable after it warms up.
> 
> ...


With the right tools and if you take your time it'll run the non vW tech guys somewhere around 6+ hours to replace the manifold (cleaning not included). If you throw a valve cleaning in the mix your looking at something closer to 8-10 hours. It took me probably around 7.5 hours iirc. 

This DIY helps out a **** ton, Props again to steelcurtain :thumbup:
Once I replace my coils, wheel bearings, spark plugs & fuel filter I'm going to tackle a valve cleaning (just rolled over 100k miles)


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

onevrsix said:


> With the right tools and if you take your time it'll run the non vW tech guys somewhere around 6+ hours to replace the manifold (cleaning not included). If you throw a valve cleaning in the mix your looking at something closer to 8-10 hours. It took me probably around 7.5 hours iirc.
> 
> This DIY helps out a **** ton, Props again to steelcurtain :thumbup:
> Once I replace my coils, wheel bearings, spark plugs & fuel filter I'm going to tackle a valve cleaning (just rolled over 100k miles)


Thanks buddy. I appreciate that.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

steelcurtain said:


> They leak.


How do you tell if they leak?


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

steelcurtain said:


> I got a used set for sale if you want to replace all 4. $200. I'll even throw in repair kits.


Why would used ones be any better then the ones I already have?


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## GreenBay2010CC (Jun 25, 2013)

onevrsix said:


> With the right tools and if you take your time it'll run the non vW tech guys somewhere around 6+ hours to replace the manifold (cleaning not included). If you throw a valve cleaning in the mix your looking at something closer to 8-10 hours. It took me probably around 7.5 hours iirc.
> 
> This DIY helps out a **** ton, Props again to steelcurtain :thumbup:
> Once I replace my coils, wheel bearings, spark plugs & fuel filter I'm going to tackle a valve cleaning (just rolled over 100k miles)


Steelcurtain - 
You are my hero. Along with your instructions, and some help (ok, he did most of the work), Bob and I were able to do this in a little over 4 hours, including cleaning the major gunk.

The hardest part was step 20:


> "20. Remove the M10 triple square bolt for the intake manifold support bracket to the engine. This bolt is difficult to see. The location is below the intake manifold and behind the throttle body."


Not only is that bolt difficult to see, it is a *Royal F****** B***** to get a wrench in there in the right spot.

There is a lot of putzy stuff to remove this manifold. First glance - eh not bad, but you get into it - unclip this, unbolt that hose here, remove air hose with zero clearance, bolts are a b***** to reach and stuff in the way is what adds all the time. 

Thank god for the extendable magnet I have, and flashlight for the dozens of dropped bolts and tools. That extendable magnet should definitely be on your list of tools!

It also helps to have a friend like Bob, who is familiar with these engines.

After doing this, engine performance is back to like-new and CEL went off after several start cycles.

Thanks again steelcurtain!
:laugh:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

atikovi said:


> Why would used ones be any better then the ones I already have?


I'm just saying to replace the ones that look bad. Mine sure didn't look like that at 40k. Just offering options man.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

steelcurtain said:


> I'm just saying to replace the ones that look bad. Mine sure didn't look like that at 40k.


Mine have over 90K. They may LOOK bad, but those are just built-up deposits. The shop that cleans them tests for flow and spray pattern before and after cleaning so if any are bad I will know. Just ordered the tool kit from England for replacing injectors so it will be a week before I get the others out. You're in Fredericksburg? Got a warehouse there.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

atikovi said:


> Mine have over 90K. They may LOOK bad, but those are just built-up deposits. The shop that cleans them tests for flow and spray pattern before and after cleaning so if any are bad I will know. Just ordered the tool kit from England for replacing injectors so it will be a week before I get the others out. You're in Fredericksburg? Got a warehouse there.


Sorry, I thought you implied they were defective and the cleaning solution wasn't removing. 

I'm parting out my built 3+ gti after 3 engine rebuilds and have a **** ton of various parts for sale, so yes it feels like a warehouse. Lol. 

The issue with our injectors is they will leak and then finally fail by spraying a **** ton of fuel more than requested. There are several threads of people who have gotten stranded. The leaking leads to misfires while driving And poor fuel trims.

Ironically, I will be following my own DIY to remove the 3+ injectors and replace with stock. Apr 3+ kit with custom DV relocate is up for sale if anyone is interested.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

Got the valves and chamber walls probably 95% clean. Used the GM top engine cleaner in a bottle. They stopped selling the spray can. After scrapping off the carbon, I poured in an ounce over each valve and let it sit a few days. I'd use a curved hemostat and Scotchbrite pads cut into 1 inch squares to scrub and soak the carbon a few times a day.










Only concern would be at the valve seat where a tiny bit of carbon I cant reach may come off and lodge itself.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

Got the tool kit to service the injectors this morning. SWEET! Already got the two stuck injectors out in 10 seconds. Shipping them off for ultrasonic cleaning.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

^Nice! How much did that run you?


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

$220 with shipping


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## thanos.tka (Mar 13, 2012)

has anyone gotten a P0101 code "air leaks after the MAF" while replacing the manifold? 

I'm trying to track down the issue.....


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

Got the injectors back from cleaning. Big difference from how they looked before in post #196. You can actually see all six spray holes. No amount of pour-in-the-tank FI cleaner would get them this clean when they are carboned up. The test report said 2 of the injectors were sticking open before, and after the cleaning were good. Would explain some of the running rich CEL codes and sooty tail pipes.










Got new seal kits and will put them back this weekend.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

atikovi said:


> Got the injectors back from cleaning. Big difference from how they looked before in post #196. You can actually see all six spray holes. No amount of pour-in-the-tank FI cleaner would get them this clean when they are carboned up. The test report said 2 of the injectors were sticking open before, and after the cleaning were good. Would explain some of the running rich CEL codes and sooty tail pipes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those look great. Here is what a brand new one looks like:


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

Got the seals and hardware installed.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

And the injectors back in.


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## mikemike2 (May 26, 2011)

atikovi said:


> Got the injectors back from cleaning. Big difference from how they looked before in post #196. You can actually see all six spray holes. No amount of pour-in-the-tank FI cleaner would get them this clean when they are carboned up. The test report said 2 of the injectors were sticking open before, and after the cleaning were good. Would explain some of the running rich CEL codes and sooty tail pipes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What vendor did you use for the cleaning? I've noticed a significant (~10%) decrease in fuel economy over the past 10-15k miles. I am probably due for a valve cleaning (61k), but I'm thinking that I should probably have the injectors cleaned at the same time.

Mike


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

http://www.outboardfuelinjection.com/page_pricing.html


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## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

I soaked my injectors in sea foam for half hour, then used a tooth brush to remove excess build up. Installed em, then ran fuel injector cleaner through. Runs great and has no issues...

Then again I didnt have a week to sit with no car...


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## msushorty9 (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm taking this project on. I'm stuck at removing the four t-30 screws on the underside of the throttle body. 

Any help on how to access these screws would be appreciated. 

I'm stuck.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

msushorty9 said:


> I'm taking this project on. I'm stuck at removing the four t-30 screws on the underside of the throttle body.
> 
> Any help on how to access these screws would be appreciated.
> 
> I'm stuck.


If your car is on stands go from under (between the radiator and the engine) you will se them all four.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

I think I just used a 1/4" drive ratchet with a short extension and u-joint. You might have to go by feel on the back ones, or use an inspection mirror and light.


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## msushorty9 (Jan 21, 2006)

*doh*

:thumbup: For this awesome DIY

Thanks for the response...after a couple beers of thought I just left those four bolts on and took the throttle body completely off the rubber hose clamp. This turned out to be time consuming when it was time to re-seat the rubber hose on the throttle body.

My problems began when my intake exhaust flap change over module thing broke. Had some issues with sustaining idle RPM's. This had taken me probably a few months for me to figure what was going on. Turned out there's a little pressure valve that near the vacuum exhaust flap change over module that fluctuates with pressure changes. When I built up pressure in the intake manifold this valve would stay open and would sputter when at idle. There was also a noticeable carbon deposit when I reduced the valve manually with my fingers.

The job was much harder than I expected. It took me about 12 hours from start to finish. Part of the problem was not having the right tool for the job...or any regular experience wrenching. Involved multiple trips to auto parts supplier. The most difficult aspect of this job, for me, was working within tight spaces around the manifold. This DIY really saved my poor med student a$$. Thanks! :beer:

I was quoted $800 for parts and labor by the dealership...ridiculous to have to replace on a low mileage vehicle. Although I can see where the labor charge is justified.

Also replaced both front wheel bearings, spark plugs, coil packs, intake manifold exhaust flap change over lever when I was done http://gruvenparts.com/website/cart/cart.php?target=product&product_id=437

Most of my time was spent cleaning the valves and laminar flow intake splitters just before the valves. I could not believe how much carbon buildup I had. Below is a picture of the laminar flow intake splitters









Random wheel hub pic


















I pray I don't have to do this in another 45k miles.

Thanks.

GP


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## VAJetta2.0 (Jan 20, 2010)

msushorty9 said:


> I'm taking this project on. I'm stuck at removing the four t-30 screws on the underside of the throttle body.
> 
> Any help on how to access these screws would be appreciated.
> 
> I'm stuck.



I didn't have the ability to lift the car tall enough for me to crawl under and access these bolts. I found that by taking the throttle body hose off i was able to access the two rear bolts. I used a 3/8 ratchet with a U-joint, socket and a long T-30 bit. I suppose you could use a short bit with an extension as well. Don't think I didn't have a few choice words during the process though. 

On an extended note...I just finished my manifold at almost 92k miles. The repair was straight forward per the DIY with what I felt were either a few changes on the 2010 TSI or me not understanding the instructions completely. Two major things I ran into that I didn't see above:


The coolant lines really get in the way of removing the throttle body bolts and the M10 bolt for the manifold support (I cussed this one up and down for about 45 minutes)
I ended up removing the bracket that comes off of the alternator in order to access the underside of the manifold. This takes two bolts removed with a 1/2" socket.


All in all there were some frustrating moments and the repair took about 10 hours minus taking a couple of breaks. I ended up with a variety of warning lights when I fired back up but they cleared out after a short drive and reseting with VCDS.


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## Eikido (Feb 22, 2008)

Hey everyone. 

I've read this thread and been wondering, is this failure of intake manifold something that will happen to all 2.0 TSI engines in the future? 

I have that engine but don't have this problem now, but should i expect to get this problem in the future? 

I have a 2009 Scirocco, 22k miles. 

This reminds me of my moms Volvo C70 with a throttle body that failed. It was expected and will happen to ALL volvos with that throttle body. 

Regards 
Eikido


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Eikido said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> I've read this thread and been wondering, is this failure of intake manifold something that will happen to all 2.0 TSI engines in the future?
> 
> ...


 I have 102k miles and have yet to have my manifold fail


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## MK6GTI (Aug 1, 2009)

VAJetta2.0 said:


> I didn't have the ability to lift the car tall enough for me to crawl under and access these bolts. I found that by taking the throttle body hose off i was able to access the two rear bolts. I used a 3/8 ratchet with a U-joint, socket and a long T-30 bit. I suppose you could use a short bit with an extension as well. Don't think I didn't have a few choice words during the process though.
> 
> On an extended note...I just finished my manifold at almost 92k miles. The repair was straight forward per the DIY with what I felt were either a few changes on the 2010 TSI or me not understanding the instructions completely. Two major things I ran into that I didn't see above:
> 
> ...


 How were the results?


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## zrickety (Aug 29, 2012)

I understand cleaning the intake valves...but has anyone looked at their exhaust valves?? 
I imagine they are just as dirty as the intake side but nobody talks about them.


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## piperpilot964 (Aug 25, 2009)

Just bit the bullet and did this job after wrestling with cold misfires after my second intake replacement. 69k on car and had a B&G service at about 40k. 

"fun" job. 

Overwhelming part of the labor is the cleaning. Figure an hour and a half each for removal and installation. Hardest parts...Bracket bolt is a four hand job...two to move the hoses and apply pressure to the triplle square and two to actually turn the wrench. Remove all the piping from the intercooler to the throttle body. The two throttle body bolts on the passenger side require long extension and a universal adapter. Oh, and having to helicoil one of the intake mounting holes in the head because my friendly vw tech stripped it out on the last intake removal took about 30 minutes. Pathetic, they just filled the hole with seal a gasket and put the bolt back in. Reminds me why I hate having anyone work on my vehicles. 

I spent about an hour total on each intake port...four or five soakings for 5-10 minutes with GM top Engine cleaner followed by scraping with picks, vacuum the **** out, rinse repeat. Last pass wipe it all down and a few shots of compressed air. Had to be Navy clean of course  The clean up physically is easy if you let the solvent do its job, it is just tedious. 

Idle purrs like a kitten. Better mpg and more responsive. You just don't realize how it affects overall power and efficiency since it slowly builds over time. This is a half day job that I will likely do every 20k from here on out. 

Before 









After


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

^looking good! Hard effort is worth the reward.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

I can't believe it's been 2 years since I dd this DIY. Still not stickied!


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## piperpilot964 (Aug 25, 2009)

Yea, kinda odd it's not stickied. 

Not really a lot of effort though honestly. If you are used to wrenching on your cars it is only a moderately hard job. Now without that top engine cleaner, that would be effort! That stuff just works like a billion little men with chisels peeling off the carbon. 

Seeing and feeling the effects for myself, I will likely do this job about every 20k from here on out. I am sure I can shave a ton of time off the job and half a day drinking :beer: and cranking tunes while wrenching is not a bad way to hang out.


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## VAJetta2.0 (Jan 20, 2010)

MK6GTI said:


> How were the results?


Everything runs great. I've put about 1000 miles on the car since the repair and have no complaints with acceleration or power issues. Complete PIT but a lot better than spending the money at the stealership.


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## Dark Anghell (Jun 25, 2007)

Did this over the weekend and car feels much, much better! While doing this I decided to redo my noisepipe delete plug as it was letting some oil seep out. On the test drive the plug blew out as soon as I hit boost and car died...scared the s**t out of me hearing a loud pop and engine bogging down. Got that sorted out though with cheap Autozone plug. 

Car has check engine light on, I cleared it via APR fault code clear feature but the light comes back on when I start the car. Going to scan it tonight after work to see what the issue is. Wonder if me opening the intake manifold flaps by hand caused damage. I did that in order to clean all the ports and flaps themselves. 

In regards to the amount of buildup...car has 50K miles and about 1/4" worth of buildup. 

Also for those wanting to do this, get the brushes ahead of time. I had one hell of a time finding round wire bristle brushes! Ended up buying some from Big 5, they were made to clean gun barrels. You can purchase some online specifically made for engines though.


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

Did this over the weekend to install 4 injectors for stage3+ , wasnt toooo bad. Worth noting... there are 5 t-30 bolts up top and two more on the lower row (we'll call these #2 and #3. #1 and #4 on the lower row are long studs with 10mm nuts. Removing the tb hose is the best way to get the 4 t30 screws off the throttlebody. I used a 1/4" ratchet or thumbdrive and a socket to hold the t30 bit and it was perfect. Also, i have a 2011 cbfa and did not have the support bracket under my manifold, so i didnt have to fuss with it.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> I can't believe it's been 2 years since I dd this DIY. Still not stickied!


mods hate TSI


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Dark Anghell said:


> Did this over the weekend and car feels much, much better! While doing this I decided to redo my noisepipe delete plug as it was letting some oil seep out. On the test drive the plug blew out as soon as I hit boost and car died...scared the s**t out of me hearing a loud pop and engine bogging down. Got that sorted out though with cheap Autozone plug.
> 
> Car has check engine light on, I cleared it via APR fault code clear feature but the light comes back on when I start the car. Going to scan it tonight after work to see what the issue is. Wonder if me opening the intake manifold flaps by hand caused damage. I did that in order to clean all the ports and flaps themselves.
> 
> ...


Post up the code and we'll help with what it is. 



GlfSprtCT1 said:


> Did this over the weekend to install 4 injectors for stage3+ , wasnt toooo bad. Worth noting... there are 5 t-30 bolts up top and two more on the lower row (we'll call these #2 and #3. #1 and #4 on the lower row are long studs with 10mm nuts. Removing the tb hose is the best way to get the 4 t30 screws off the throttlebody. I used a 1/4" ratchet or thumbdrive and a socket to hold the t30 bit and it was perfect. Also, i have a 2011 cbfa and did not have the support bracket under my manifold, so i didnt have to fuss with it.


Awesome! Thanks for noting bro. Interesting that you have no support bracket. Didn't realize that '11 CBFA doesn't ha e it. 



ViRtUaLheretic said:


> mods hate TSI


Lol! If you're not a 1.8T than they don't care. Haha


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## Dark Anghell (Jun 25, 2007)

Figured out the CEL:

-After my noisepipe plug popped out and I fixed it, I removed the intake and forgot to plug in the MAF sensor.
-When replacing my diverter valve I broke the clip (wonder if I can buy a replacement clip...) and thought it would stay in without it, apparently not. It popped off, so I have it jerry rigged with a zip tie so it doesn't come off. 

Butt dyno shows positive results after the cleaning. Before there was no wheel spin or blinking traction control light when in 2nd gear, now traction control light blinks every time I hit boost in that gear.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Dark Anghell said:


> Figured out the CEL:
> 
> -After my noisepipe plug popped out and I fixed it, I removed the intake and forgot to plug in the MAF sensor.
> -When replacing my diverter valve I broke the clip (wonder if I can buy a replacement clip...) and thought it would stay in without it, apparently not. It popped off, so I have it jerry rigged with a zip tie so it doesn't come off.
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

Just happen to stumble on this thread, why is the throttle body being removed? And the throttle body pipe can stay in the car, remove the upper t30 and push it forward out of the way. Dont even need stands this way.


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## runnermatt (Mar 15, 2009)

*How do I reinstall the fuel injectors?*

I'm halfway through this job. I've removed the manifold and one of the injectors pulled out with it. I've already finished the valve cleaning and replaced the seals on the injector that pulled out. Now I'm wondering what is the best way to re-install the injector? I can push the it in by hand some, but not all the way. I'm assuming I should not use the fuel rail to pull it down with the manifold screws. 

Due to time constraints I've been trying to finish this for two months now. Needless to say, between work and other personal commitments, it is hard for me to find time to work on it. So responses are more than appreciated. 

Side note: The only injector that stayed in the manifold was the only cylinder that the valves were open on. I wonder if that has something to do with it pulling out?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

runnermatt said:


> I'm halfway through this job. I've removed the manifold and one of the injectors pulled out with it. I've already finished the valve cleaning and replaced the seals on the injector that pulled out. Now I'm wondering what is the best way to re-install the injector? I can push the it in by hand some, but not all the way. I'm assuming I should not use the fuel rail to pull it down with the manifold screws.
> 
> Due to time constraints I've been trying to finish this for two months now. Needless to say, between work and other personal commitments, it is hard for me to find time to work on it. So responses are more than appreciated.
> 
> Side note: The only injector that stayed in the manifold was the only cylinder that the valves were open on. I wonder if that has something to do with it pulling out?


I pressed my injectors in using the butt end of a small mallet, gently with care not to strch them by not being properly aligned. Then placed the mani in position an 'seated' the injectors to the fuel rail. liNed up right, it's plug N play.


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## runnermatt (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks for the quick reply steelcurtain. I suppose the handle of my plastic tipped hammer will work well enough. Hopefully, I can find the time to get to it this coming weekend!

Also, I took some detailed pictures when I was taking it apart. I labeled them with each step # that they corresponded too. Would you would be interested in adding them to the link in your original post?


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## jpawl (Apr 12, 2000)

Has anyone tried using a soda blast media (via Soda Blaster) to clean the valves?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

jpawl said:


> Has anyone tried using a soda blast media (via Soda Blaster) to clean the valves?


This is growing in popularity with Minis ans BMWs, they use walnut shell media.
I was planning to do this, but the friend that was going to buy the media blaster knocked up his wife so priorities shifted lol


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

Been having weird boost issues since my 3+ install 2 weeks back. Decided to pressure test the system and the hiss i was hearing seemed to be coming from under the intake manifold (which i removed for the injector swap). I checked the gasket and all was well so i just reinstalled the manifold and tightened it back down. Are there other steps i missed?? is there a certain order to tighten the bolts in??


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## MK6GTI (Aug 1, 2009)

GlfSprtCT1 said:


> Been having weird boost issues since my 3+ install 2 weeks back. Decided to pressure test the system and the hiss i was hearing seemed to be coming from under the intake manifold (which i removed for the injector swap). I checked the gasket and all was well so i just reinstalled the manifold and tightened it back down. Are there other steps i missed?? is there a certain order to tighten the bolts in??


Did you use a new injector seal when you took the injectors out?


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

MK6GTI said:


> Did you use a new injector seal when you took the injectors out?


I inspected all 4 and they looked ok, so i didnt change any of them. looking back now... i probably should have


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## MK6GTI (Aug 1, 2009)

GlfSprtCT1 said:


> I inspected all 4 and they looked ok, so i didnt change any of them. looking back now... i probably should have


Yeahhhh you should have.


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

MK6GTI said:


> Yeahhhh you should have.


No worries... all gaskets and injector kits should be here this weekend. :beer:


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## doni! (Oct 10, 2010)

Hey guys I'm currently trying to clean my intake valves. Everything is easy so far except for that fuel line under the hpfp. I'm using the 17mm open wrench and it gets loose at one point then doesn't wanna turn anymore. I don't wanna kink the line or anything but I'm stuck. 
Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

doni! said:


> Hey guys I'm currently trying to clean my intake valves. Everything is easy so far except for that fuel line under the hpfp. I'm using the 17mm open wrench and it gets loose at one point then doesn't wanna turn anymore. I don't wanna kink the line or anything but I'm stuck.
> Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:


go easy when you loosen it, esp. if you havent purged the line of fuel, some may drip out. get some rags or shop towels under there. 

as far as that line, it doesnt take alot of force to loosen that nut or the one under the manifold. You sure you're turning it the right way? *silly.. but humor me*


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I found it best to use a crow's foot socket to get to that bolt


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

60k on a CC. She needs some love.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


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## doni! (Oct 10, 2010)

GlfSprtCT1 said:


> go easy when you loosen it, esp. if you havent purged the line of fuel, some may drip out. get some rags or shop towels under there.
> 
> as far as that line, it doesnt take alot of force to loosen that nut or the one under the manifold. You sure you're turning it the right way? *silly.. but humor me*



I got it off, I was loosening the fitting like an idiot :facepalm: . New fuel line will be needed seeing as I put a little kink in it...


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## RAULTPEREZ (Jan 6, 2002)

this is really good info.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

RAULTPEREZ said:


> this is really good info.


Thanks buddy. Someone had to do it so I just dove in. Besides, it helped me put it all back together.


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## Midwesterner (Sep 9, 2003)

How do you loosen that line on the HPFP? Do you try and unthread the adapter that is connected to the HPFP itself or the nut below it thats connected to the fuel line?



doni! said:


> I got it off, I was loosening the fitting like an idiot :facepalm: . New fuel line will be needed seeing as I put a little kink in it...


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Midwesterner said:


> How do you loosen that line on the HPFP? Do you try and unthread the adapter that is connected to the HPFP itself or the nut below it thats connected to the fuel line?


The nut below connected to the fuel rail.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

So what do we think about this? http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-3000-rpm-for-20min-to-remove-carbon-deposits


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## Cascen (Sep 29, 2013)

My 2008.5 Passat had the CEL on. A 0300, 0301 and 0302. Replaced coils and plugs, still no fix, then it started popping/backfiring through my intake(neuspeed) on a cold start. So I decided to do this yesterday. Followed the install directions and my problems is fixed completely. I just had a new head put on only 26k miles ago and my valves were disgusting. I got some pictures.
BEFORE:








AFTER:


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## Cascen (Sep 29, 2013)

I used Gunk Engine Brite Engine Degreaser Heavy Duty Gel to get off the heavy deposits and to clean it up and make it shine I used Carb and Choke cleaner which did an amazing job(probably better than the Gunk)


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## Hydroxid (Oct 5, 2013)

*Help!*

Hello, 
I'm having trouble removing the intake. It jiggles a bit up and down, but can't pull it out. Seems like it's still attached from the middle or something like that, but I can't find what's holding it, as far as I can tell i've removed everthing.

Also, the car has less than 12000mi, and the reason I'm trying to remove the intake is to gain access to the water pump since it has a coolant leak. I've never removed the WP on this kind of engine, do you think it's necessary to take the intake out or is it possible to work with the pump with it on? 
Thanks guys!


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

Hydroxid said:


> Hello,
> I'm having trouble removing the intake. It jiggles a bit up and down, but can't pull it out. Seems like it's still attached from the middle or something like that, but I can't find what's holding it, as far as I can tell i've removed everthing.
> 
> Also, the car has less than 12000mi, and the reason I'm trying to remove the intake is to gain access to the water pump since it has a coolant leak. I've never removed the WP on this kind of engine, do you think it's necessary to take the intake out or is it possible to work with the pump with it on?
> Thanks guys!


if the car has less than 12k on it let the dealer worry about a waterpump and this whole mess. 

for the manifold itself, theres 9 bolts/nuts that hold it along with a small brace underneath the center of the manifold. my 2011 doesnt have it but a friends 2010 does. 




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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

The water pump is buried underneath. Yea to removing intake and will need to remove throttle body pipe at least. 

No offense, but if having trouble with the intake, don't do trhe work yourself. 

I'd check the thermostat gasket. Famous for leaking too.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

GlfSprtCT1 said:


> if the car has less than 12k on it let the dealer worry about a waterpump and this whole mess.


I would assume it's over the 3 year warranty or his warranty was cancelled.


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

atikovi said:


> I would assume it's over the 3 year warranty or his warranty was cancelled.


Id probably go with the 3 year. Ive been modded since 1500miles and my dealer has never given me crap about my waterpump issues. If they did, id just go to another dealer. 


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

I'd fine an MKV TSI water pump at a junkyard if out if warrnty. Mine never had issues and was out through the ringer. Nor have I heard of any MKV have the problem. 

I have one for sale if its not taken by Nother member on this thread.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> I'd fine an MKV TSI water pump at a junkyard if out if warrnty. Mine never had issues and was out through the ringer. Nor have I heard of any MKV have the problem.
> 
> I have one for sale if its not taken by Nother member on this thread.


Typos courtesy if iphone4s. Hate this phone. Lok. See what I mean!


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

steelcurtain said:


> Typos courtesy if iphone4s. Hate this phone. Lok. See what I mean!


old age? put your glasses on while texting 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

HA! Nah. It's the change in key size from the iPhone 3.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

camarkim said:


> Here's my saga. 33K on my 2010 CC 2.0t, 6 speed manual. Bought brand new which included 3 years free maintanence (basically 3 oil changes and inspections). Have had the manifold replaced twice, both times under warranty and I think the first time they did not use the updated part number. Second time they did.
> 
> Flash forward to 12/2012. Got CEL, used my Vag-Com to find a P0303 code. Took it to dealer, who said intake carbon buildup and that it would be $600.00 to fix. I said no thanks. They cleared the code and I went on my way.
> 
> ...



I want to clarify something for everyone, including yourself. The dealer is not instructed by ANYONE to see which "suckers" buy into the decarboning. Volkswagen bumper to bumper warranty includes repair or replacement of any component or components deemed to have a defect in MATERIAL OR WORKMANSHIP from manufacturing/assembly. This DOES NOT include maintenance items or WEAR AND TEAR, nor does it include a failure of anything due to OUTSIDE INFLUENCE. So basically carbon buildup is NOT covered under warranty. 

Want to know the real reason your dealer did it for free? Because they wanted to keep you as a happy customer for a long time. If I were you I would buy the dealer donuts the next time you are in for service. Additionally, there is no labor operation for the dealer to bill Volkswagen for a decarb job. So your dealer took it on the chin like they do more often than you think and ATE the cost of the seals and labor for YOU. They really bent over for ya.... Just want you to know they treated you well.


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## Hydroxid (Oct 5, 2013)

Hi thanks for the quick replies guys. 
My warranty has expired so taking it to the dealer is the last thing I want to do. 
As I said before I haven't worked on an engine like this before, but I never said I've never picked a tool in my life. I asked for help because of that, I don't think I deserve to be patronized for not being able to pull the manifold out the first time. 
The car is a SEAT Altea Freetrack by the way and it has a CCTA 2.0 TSI engine. Thank for the replies guys!:thumbup:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

rustlerdude said:


> I want to clarify something for everyone, including yourself. The dealer is not instructed by ANYONE to see which "suckers" buy into the decarboning. Volkswagen bumper to bumper warranty includes repair or replacement of any component or components deemed to have a defect in MATERIAL OR WORKMANSHIP from manufacturing/assembly. This DOES NOT include maintenance items or WEAR AND TEAR, nor does it include a failure of anything due to OUTSIDE INFLUENCE. So basically carbon buildup is NOT covered under warranty.
> 
> Want to know the real reason your dealer did it for free? Because they wanted to keep you as a happy customer for a long time. If I were you I would buy the dealer donuts the next time you are in for service. Additionally, there is no labor operation for the dealer to bill Volkswagen for a decarb job. So your dealer took it on the chin like they do more often than you think and ATE the cost of the seals and labor for YOU. They really bent over for ya.... Just want you to know they treated you well.


Well said and you're 100% correct. 

Please keep this thread as a technical source of info. It is a DIY. Thank you. 

-OP


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## ehWudupdoc (Nov 9, 2007)

im having issues with misfires on cylinder 2 the car has less than 40k miles on it changed out plugs couple times and coils so at this point im assuming its the injector. Vag-com shows that cylinder only one misfiring, is this part of the process to getting to the injector?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ehWudupdoc said:


> im having issues with misfires on cylinder 2 the car has less than 40k miles on it changed out plugs couple times and coils so at this point im assuming its the injector. Vag-com shows that cylinder only one misfiring, is this part of the process to getting to the injector?


I would run some chevron techron to see if its dirty injector. Or it could be a dirty valve. I'd try to clean the injector first since it's easier.


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## ehWudupdoc (Nov 9, 2007)

steelcurtain said:


> I would run some chevron techron to see if its dirty injector. Or it could be a dirty valve. I'd try to clean the injector first since it's easier.


Tried techron few times nothing, I'm running apr stage 1 it only misfires cylinder 2 at idle and start up... No misfires under engine load...connected vagcom to the car and had 105 total misfires on cylinder 2...it's weird I'll drive and go stop at a light no misfires drive and stop at another light and I'll get misfires on that cylinder.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ehWudupdoc said:


> Tried techron few times nothing, I'm running apr stage 1 it only misfires cylinder 2 at idle and start up... No misfires under engine load...connected vagcom to the car and had 105 total misfires on cylinder 2...it's weird I'll drive and go stop at a light no misfires drive and stop at another light and I'll get misfires on that cylinder.


Maybe lower the gap on cylinder 2 plug?
Edit: our injectors are also known to leak. Maybe just pull the mani and replace it. I have stock set of oem injectors used for sale if interested.


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## Hydroxid (Oct 5, 2013)

Hi guys,
Here are some pics of the progress I have so far with the intake removal. I have removed the top 5 bolts and the bottom 2 and the two nuts, the connectors and the hoses, Maybe you can point me in the right path to finally remove it thanks in advance. 
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/[email protected]/10181738244/
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/[email protected]/10181956273/
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/[email protected]/10181841585/
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/[email protected]/10181900216/


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

unscrew the steel line from the high pres. fuel pump and under the manifold too, dont forget that!!! also, you may or may not have a brace under manifold, towards the middle. 


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## Hydroxid (Oct 5, 2013)

GlfSprtCT1 said:


> unscrew the steel line from the high pres. fuel pump and under the manifold too, dont forget that!!! also, you may or may not have a brace under manifold, towards the middle.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


Thanks for the advice! I've already unscrewed that line from the pump but not from under the mani, I'll see into that and I'll keep you updated.


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## htrain2432 (Nov 27, 2012)

Hydroxid said:


> Thanks for the advice! I've already unscrewed that line from the pump but not from under the mani, I'll see into that and I'll keep you updated.


Did you check to see if you have that support underneath the manifold, with the M10 triple square bolt? That one, and the rear passenger side throttle body bolt were gave me the most trouble. For the M10 triple square, I ended up buying another bit (the one I had was a 1/2" drive socket), cutting it short, and putting it in a shallow 1/2" socket with a 1/4" drive socket wrench. Had to go up from the bottom, wedge an extra long extension in between the 2 cooling hoses to keep them pushed back, and I could fit the wrench in there. It's a pain, but it works.


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## htrain2432 (Nov 27, 2012)

*Can anyone help with these two wires*

Anyone have any idea what these two brown and yellow wires go to? They must have come out of something when I pulled out the intake manifold, but I can't seem to find any connector in the engine bay or on the old manifold that is missing wires. It comes from the same loom as the one shown next to it with the purple connector.

http://s933.photobucket.com/user/seanhemm/media/20131011_200007_zpsfb5b2535.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=1


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## htrain2432 (Nov 27, 2012)

htrain2432 said:


> Anyone have any idea what these two brown and yellow wires go to? They must have come out of something when I pulled out the intake manifold, but I can't seem to find any connector in the engine bay or on the old manifold that is missing wires. It comes from the same loom as the one shown next to it with the purple connector.
> 
> http://s933.photobucket.com/user/seanhemm/media/20131011_200007_zpsfb5b2535.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=1


Nevermind, I found the answer here:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-pump-need-to-know-which-order-to-repair-them!


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## Hydroxid (Oct 5, 2013)

htrain2432 said:


> Did you check to see if you have that support underneath the manifold, with the M10 triple square bolt? That one, and the rear passenger side throttle body bolt were gave me the most trouble. For the M10 triple square, I ended up buying another bit (the one I had was a 1/2" drive socket), cutting it short, and putting it in a shallow 1/2" socket with a 1/4" drive socket wrench. Had to go up from the bottom, wedge an extra long extension in between the 2 cooling hoses to keep them pushed back, and I could fit the wrench in there. It's a pain, but it works.


Thanks for the advice! I'm going to check it out.


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## pralston (Feb 6, 2009)

*P2015 - made worse?*

First of all, hats off to SteelCurtain for a great write up. I just did this manifold swap on a 2009 CC. I'd never have tried without the benefit of this write up.

The only thing I'd advise is to REMOVE the oil filter to allow the manifold to come directly out without having to incline it slightly.

Sadly, my story doesn't end there. P2015 has now become P2008, described as an inlet manifold flap electrical fault. ****! I'm pissed now, I'll relook at it tomorrow. I guess I've done something wrong or missed a connector somewhere????

By any chance, is there any coding/adaptation to be done for a new inlet manifold?

Fingers crossed for tomorrow!

PaulR


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## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

New manifold doesnt require any coding. 

Check on the bottom right if you plugged in the flap motor.


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## pralston (Feb 6, 2009)

*Done deal*

Thanks for the pointer of where to head first Donjuan1jr, I was pretty demotivated last night!

Pulled the air intake assembly this morning and stuck my head in by the flapper motor connection - sure enough, I'd completely missed it - what a doofus!
Cleared codes, went for a Test drive and all is well.
I hope it hangs together now until march next year when the Golf that will replace it arrives!

To anyone else reading this thread and contemplating the task. It IS possible, even for someone like me who rarely sticks their nose into the depths of modern under_the_hood plumbing! Don't trust the dealer to take the infinite care that you will in cleaning out the carbon deposit around the inlet chamber, no matter what they say. Overall, this job took me 6 hours. I'd say that is the minimum. You could spend a LOT more time if your inlet areas are really crapped up!

Someone else here said about the act of pulling the manifold off "pull like you got a pair". They were right! Overcoming the grip of four injector seals is no simple pull. But whad'ya know, despite my old age, I got a pair and I didn't even know it 

Bye y'all


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## htrain2432 (Nov 27, 2012)

htrain2432 said:


> Anyone have any idea what these two brown and yellow wires go to? They must have come out of something when I pulled out the intake manifold, but I can't seem to find any connector in the engine bay or on the old manifold that is missing wires. It comes from the same loom as the one shown next to it with the purple connector.
> 
> http://s933.photobucket.com/user/seanhemm/media/20131011_200007_zpsfb5b2535.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=1


So the answer I found to my own question was half of what I needed. Slimklim posted about which connector those two wires came out of, but he didn't say what order they went back in. Can any of you guys look through any pictures you took of your removal, or manage to see them with the manifold in the car and tell me what orientation they go in? I would hate to wire them up wrong by guessing and have to pull the manifold just to swap 2 wires.

I'm currently waiting on a new fuel rail. During my fight with the manifold, thinking I had every bolt out when I didn't, I snapped the 2 outside lower supports on the fuel rail (under runners 1 and 4). One completely came off, and one got bent. From my best investigation, they only provide support and theoretically I could just slide them over the studs and re-use the old fuel rail, but I'd hate to do that when I can just replace the fuel rail and do the job right. That's the whole point of doing the work yourself anyway right, to make sure everything gets done correctly? Anyway, once I finish, I'll upload some pictures and some tips I found helpful for getting everything out. Thanks to steelcurtain for putting this up in the first place, I definitely would have broken something else without this writeup.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

Doesn't matter which way they go....it will give the same reading. However, VW likes to put brown on pin 1. 

For those who think they have a faulty fuel injector, they are now covered for 120k miles.


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## htrain2432 (Nov 27, 2012)

rustlerdude said:


> Doesn't matter which way they go....it will give the same reading. However, VW likes to put brown on pin 1.
> 
> For those who think they have a faulty fuel injector, they are now covered for 120k miles.


Thanks for the info on the wiring. Glad to hear the injectors are covered for 120k.


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## kern417 (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks for the DIY steel. 

*It still took me and some of my friends about 6 hrs. There were some differences in mine. For the most part everything was there, just slightly different locations. 

*also i remove the throttle body bolts without removing the pipe using a socket wrench with a rotating head, so the manifold was able slide right off. 

*when i put everything back together i left off the threaded shaft that goes into the bottom of the manifold and the support bracket. it's basically just sitting on top of it now, but that triple square takes the longest to get out. the next day i took the manifold off again and it took about 15 min

*definitely make sure you buy o-rings before this install. i didn't and even though none of my injectors came out, i accidentally chipped one of them and it wouldn't seal. we didn't notice so after we put everything together i was leaking fuel as soon as i turned the car on. i had to wait until monday to get it at the dealer, but after replacing it and putting the manifold back on carefully all was well.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

kern417 said:


> Thanks for the DIY steel.
> 
> *It still took me and some of my friends about 6 hrs. There were some differences in mine. For the most part everything was there, just slightly different locations.
> 
> ...


Thanks man. Glad it worked for you. How's the car running now?


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## kern417 (Jul 31, 2011)

Before it used to pop and hesitate at idle and I could hear it through the exhaust but it idles better now. Regular driving feels similar. Low gear pulls feel stronger too.


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## VAJetta2.0 (Jan 20, 2010)

MK6GTI said:


> How were the results?


Seemed to fix the problem although I had trouble with the ECU not recognizing the manifold even after resetting with VCDS. I read somewhere that this might mean the ECU needs to be reflashed. Not a whole lot of information out there on it.


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## chazvw (May 20, 2011)

My 2008 Passat with 55K miles was recently diagnosed with carbon buildup on the intake valves. The dealer wants $650 to perform the work - which is simply ridiculous! I plan on doing the work myself - thanks to this DIY writeup. One question I had was with regard to the fuel injectors which seems to be held in by the intake manifold. Some injectors can pull out when the manifold is removed. 

Are the fuel injectors simply replaced back into their location (along with new seals)? Is a tool required to insert the injectors?
http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/Fuel_Injector_Tool/ES2649707/

Thanks!


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

chazvw said:


> My 2008 Passat with 55K miles was recently diagnosed with carbon buildup on the intake valves. The dealer wants $650 to perform the work - which is simply ridiculous! I plan on doing the work myself - thanks to this DIY writeup. One question I had was with regard to the fuel injectors which seems to be held in by the intake manifold. Some injectors can pull out when the manifold is removed.
> 
> Are the fuel injectors simply replaced back into their location (along with new seals)? Is a tool required to insert the injectors?
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/Fuel_Injector_Tool/ES2649707/
> ...


They are put back in their original location. The end of the handle on a hammer works good to push the injector into the head. That's what I've done and manny others. To do it the correct way, get the kit.


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

If just one injector is stuck in the manifold you need the special tool to remove it without damage. Not the time to use Vicegrips. And to install the white teflon seals you should also use another special tool to seat it properly.


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## chazvw (May 20, 2011)

OK - Thanks for all the info. I'm going to look around for a "knock-off" / after market tool - really don't want to spend $250.
I thought the injectors would be secured a little better - similar to spark plugs. There is compression from the cylinders and pressure from the fuel pump.
It seems they should get blown out.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

FWIW I left the white teflon seal alone, I just replaced the rubber seal


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## atikovi (Oct 19, 2001)

I got this one: http://www.motamec.com/bgs-tools-fsi-injector-assembly-and-disassembly-kit-68345.html Couldn't find it in the US so I had to get it from England.


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## chazvw (May 20, 2011)

chazvw said:


> My 2008 Passat with 55K miles was recently diagnosed with carbon buildup on the intake valves. The dealer wants $650 to perform the work - which is simply ridiculous! I plan on doing the work myself - thanks to this DIY writeup. One question I had was with regard to the fuel injectors which seems to be held in by the intake manifold. Some injectors can pull out when the manifold is removed.
> 
> Are the fuel injectors simply replaced back into their location (along with new seals)? Is a tool required to insert the injectors?
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/Fuel_Injector_Tool/ES2649707/
> ...


I have a follow-up question to my previous post. I know it would be best to get this fixed ASAP, but it's getting might cold here in the Boston area and I don't really have the facilities to perform the work at the current time. The CEL is on again with the typical random misfire codes - P0300, P0301. 
Is it OK to continue driving for a while until the weather warms up? Are there any risks - I'm thinking carbon breaking off, catalytic converter, etc. I don't want to make things worse.

Thanks again!


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## VAJetta2.0 (Jan 20, 2010)

So I replaced my intake manifold about a thousand miles ago. Ive had a constant check engine light for an electrical malfunction in Bank 1 ever since. Poured over the stupid car and repeatedly tried to reset with VCDS...nothing. Finally had the dealer look at it since it had to got for inspection anyways. No big deal...it's a warranty item and they'll cover the diagnostic fee right? No...my dumb*** forgot to hook up a vacuum line during the reinstall. Can I tell you how pissed off and dumb I felt handing over $106 for the tech to hook the line up? To add insult to injury I pull out of the lot after getting it fixed and loose a coil and throw another code. Definitely has not been my day. Thanks for letting me rant. Carry on!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HYDE16 (Aug 20, 2010)

Thanks to steelcurtain's thread, I was able to tackle this on my own for my *“HYDE16 Reviews - HPA 2.0T Performance Intake Manifold”* thread.


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## deekster_caddy (Jun 17, 2008)

A big thank you to steelcurtain for this writeup. I actually have the service manual and was getting ready to perform this task, as we got the P2015 on our '08 Passat. We have 90K on it and just had the fuel pump replaced. I have been reading every thread I could find on doing the intake so I would be ready for any surprised. As I was getting ready to order the intake, I decided on a whim to call our local dealer who has always been good to us. They ran our VIN and said that if it was the intake that needed to be replaced, VW had extended coverage on this specific job up to 120K miles!!! I was quite sure we were out of warranty, so was very glad to hear this news.

Thanks again for the write-up, it is awesome and has great detail. Just a note to all - it's worth a call to your local VW to see if yours will be covered by the extension program!!!!

-Derek

(I'm not sure if they will cover a carbon cleaning while they are in there, but I'll mention it. Would be a shame to have that skipped while it's opened up. But if the carbon cleaning costs me out of pocket as much as I would have paid for the manifold anyway, worth it!)


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## DeckDub (May 2, 2010)

Ok here is my question since i will be performing this service relatively soon.

I do not have vag-com and i do not know anybody that has it.

My question being is this is it possible to remove the throttle body, but keep the connectors plugged in so i do not have to have a throttle body relearn done? From what i gathered this would be the only thing you would vag-com for during this service.

Thanks


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

DeckDub said:


> Ok here is my question since i will be performing this service relatively soon.
> 
> I do not have vag-com and i do not know anybody that has it.
> 
> ...


You have to disconnect your battery so not following your logic. You will need to disconnect the TB. 

The car goes thru a check sequence when you power off the motor. I'd try that first. I'm sure you would be fine. If not just go to dealer and ask them to run a TBA. it's not like theveryone car won't run. 

-steel


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## DeckDub (May 2, 2010)

ah i missed the battery part my fault, so it doesn't matter either way then.

thanks


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## mfractal (May 16, 2005)

guys, my TSI water pump is leaking so since i am going to remove the manifold to change it, i thought i should also do the cleaning.

I bought the pump and now in doubt about whether or not i should also get the injectors install kit. Do i have to remove the injectors to do the cleaning ?

what say you, gurus ?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

mfractal said:


> guys, my TSI water pump is leaking so since i am going to remove the manifold to change it, i thought i should also do the cleaning.
> 
> I bought the pump and now in doubt about whether or not i should also get the injectors install kit. Do i have to remove the injectors to do the cleaning ?
> 
> what say you, gurus ?


Get the seal kits. You can guarantee that at least one injector will come out of the bore when you pull the mani.


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## mfractal (May 16, 2005)

steelcurtain said:


> Get the seal kits. You can guarantee that at least one injector will come out of the bore when you pull the mani.


got it. thanks steel! I've also got the manifold and Throttle body gaskets.


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## ilyaamex (Jan 21, 2012)

Thanks for the excellent DIY! I tackled the cleaning today. The valves were a complete mess (74k)

Next time I'd skip the seafoam and just knock all the buildup with wire brushes/picks. Did that for the last cylinder and it was faster and cleaner.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

mfractal said:


> got it. thanks steel! I've also got the manifold and Throttle body gaskets.


The gaskets are reusable and dont need to be replaced.

I would go ahead and buy 4 injector seals just in case all 4 pop out.
Just make sure you are buying TSI injectors seals. I accidentally bought FSI injector seals the first time I removed the manifold and they would not work.


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## mfractal (May 16, 2005)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> The gaskets are reusable and dont need to be replaced.
> 
> I would go ahead and buy 4 injector seals just in case all 4 pop out.
> Just make sure you are buying TSI injectors seals. I accidentally bought FSI injector seals the first time I removed the manifold and they would not work.


will do! thanks a lot.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Thanks guys. Glad it helped you out!


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## johnnycc (Dec 17, 2008)

*Intake manifold/Injector warranty extensions*

I am throwing the same code and was doing some searching and I found a post in the Golf/GTI VI forum that said...

*Volkswagen has extended the Emissions Control Systems Warranty for the intake manifold under specific
conditions to 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s original in-service date,
for certain 2008 – 2011 Model Year Volkswagen 2.0 TFSI Engine vehicles with engine codes CBFA and
CCTA.

Volkswagen has extended the Emissions Control Systems Warranty for fuel injector replacement under
specific conditions to 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s original inservice
date, for certain 2008 – 2011 Model Year Volkswagen 2.0 TFSI Engine vehicles with engine codes
CBFA and CCTA.*

I took my 2009 VW CC in and they agreed that it will be covered under warranty for 120k miles of 2018, whichever comes first. Saves me a weekend of work and the money for the parts.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6118285-Intake-manifold-Injector-warranty-extensions&p=86182199&posted=1#post86182199


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## Taintted (Jan 25, 2014)

I'm starting to look to acquire all the items I need to do this cleaning but one thing I can't seem to find is the DIY for the injector seals. Maybe I'm missing it or something but I've read through the original DIY 5 times and still can't find it. With the repair kit is the tool still needed for the injector seals?


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

Taintted said:


> I'm starting to look to acquire all the items I need to do this cleaning but one thing I can't seem to find is the DIY for the injector seals. Maybe I'm missing it or something but I've read through the original DIY 5 times and still can't find it. With the repair kit is the tool still needed for the injector seals?


If you're careful, the little white seal on the end of the injector can be gentle slipped over the tip of the injector and it'll fall into place.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

GlfSprtCT1 said:


> If you're careful, the little white seal on the end of the injector can be gentle slipped over the tip of the injector and it'll fall into place.


Use a small socket that has less diameter than the injector. Slide the seal over the socket. Wet it with a little saliva. Place the socket against the injector and gently slide the seal off the socket onto the injector. That's the diy you can't find. 

Does that make sense? If not, than ask away. We will get you straight.


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

steelcurtain said:


> Use a small socket that has less diameter than the injector. Slide the seal over the socket. Wet it with a little saliva. Place the socket against the injector and gently slide the seal off the socket onto the injector. That's the diy you can't find.
> 
> Does that make sense? If not, than ask away. We will get you straight.


That DOES make sense!!! why didnt i think of that???


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## Taintted (Jan 25, 2014)

It makes perfect sense to me. Im not new to working on cars, just new to working on Audi/VW hence why I'm asking.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

This sounds like really a lot of work.....Why not just do a chemical cleaning like this?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

vwbrvr6 said:


> This sounds like really a lot of work.....Why not just do a chemical cleaning like this?


Same concept as using seafoam. Hand cleaning cleans 100% of the carbon where seafoam generally doesn't. Did you scope the valves afterwards to see how effective your method was? 

I've never scene anyone use mineral spirits before. Can you provide any data that your method cleans the valves just as effectively as hand cleaning?


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

vwbrvr6 said:


> This sounds like really a lot of work.....Why not just do a chemical cleaning like this?


This is the same concept as the BG intake cleaning system that we used when I worked at the VW dealer. I have never seen a before and after of the intake valves so I am not sure on how well it works over hand cleaning. I am almost temped to buy a cleaning system and doing a before and after check of the manifold and valves. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Non-Dismantle-Cleaner-Fuel-Injector-Cleaner-GX-100-Air-Intake-System-Clean-GX100-/151402171166?hash=item234045cb1e&item=151402171166&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr


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## mfractal (May 16, 2005)

here in Brazil I couldn't find the sprays you guys recommend over here so I had to experiment with others. tried gasoline, it works but too slow. then I tried Thinner (not sure you guys call it the same). that's the bottle, that's how it looks:










works perfectly. was very easy to clean with it. 

here's teh before and after : 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/34cx3gah1fvj7do/2014-08-28 13.53.53.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqlhavcdl9xro5x/2014-08-28 17.33.31.mp4?dl=0


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## jhboult (Feb 7, 2011)

I just did this, and have a couple of additions. 
First, like someone mentioned, HAVE A LITTLE TELESCOPING MAGNET! Not just to dig out fallen hardware, but you can use it to help remove and install the hardware as well to insure that you DON'T drop it. 

A trick I used for the injector seals (white Teflon ones) is to use the un-used/un-cut tip of a Caulk tube (note spelling, important!). The type of caulk or sealant tube that is used with a gun. Use the long tapered tip to carefully stretch it to the right diameter to fit over the injector end. Since it is plastic, it works great and the perfect size. Use a razor blade to carefully cut off the old seals. don't scratch the metal. 

I installed the injectors into the fuel rail, then installed on the mani, then installed in the block. that order seemed easiest.


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## Gabrius (Nov 7, 2009)

Awesome write up Steel, and great comments and communication from the members. Just read through every single page so I wasn't one of those guys to pop in asking questions that have already been answered.

Note: I am 2.0T FSI Engine BPY. Currently 133K Miles and its APR Stage 2. I've only owned the car since 100K but I am going to look through the records I have, as well as call APR to try and find when this went Stage 2. I also think it may have been Stage 2+ at some point but someone sold the upgraded HPFP and went back to the stock unit. 

The reason I am looking into this more is my car just doesn't feel nor pull like it use too. Just want my car to be peppy again. Also recently had my PCV fail so I am installing the BSH Comp Catch Can. Figured I will do this at the same time.

The only thing I wanted a little bit more info on is: 

1. Do you have to have the injector removal tool if the injector comes out with the manifold, or do you only need this if you want to remove injectors that stayed on the block? ...or both. 
- I did see the make shift socket tool, but any others out there?

2. Obviously as its been stated many times; Replace the injector seals if it comes out with the manifold. However, should I be replacing all seals, on all 4 injectors, even if they don't pull out? I'm a little tempted to since I'm in there, and to clean up all 4 injector nozzles...but I might not depending on the answer to the question above since I don't want to have to buy that stupid tool.

Does anyone know of a DIY Guide for the FSI specifically? If not its all good as this is very similar...also want to know because then maybe I will make one of my own.
Also thinking of doing the valve cover gasket. Would this be a good thing to do at the same time?

:beer:


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## HYDE16 (Aug 20, 2010)

I took all of mine out, cleaned the fuel injector nozzles, used my hands to re-install the seals/o-rings and put everything back into place. I never used any tool for the injectors except a pick to swap the blue rubber o-rings. The injector seal kits are cheap, do all of them while you're in there.



Gabrius said:


> Awesome write up Steel, and great comments and communication from the members. Just read through every single page so I wasn't one of those guys to pop in asking questions that have already been answered.
> 
> Note: I am 2.0T FSI Engine BPY. Currently 133K Miles and its APR Stage 2. I've only owned the car since 100K but I am going to look through the records I have, as well as call APR to try and find when this went Stage 2. I also think it may have been Stage 2+ at some point but someone sold the upgraded HPFP and went back to the stock unit.
> 
> ...


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## Gabrius (Nov 7, 2009)

HYDE16 said:


> I took all of mine out, cleaned the fuel injector nozzles, used my hands to re-install the seals/o-rings and put everything back into place. I never used any tool for the injectors except a pick to swap the blue rubber o-rings. The injector seal kits are cheap, do all of them while you're in there.


Awesome! That's good to know. Have any issues with the car after you put everything back together?

Anyone else do it this way with success?


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## HYDE16 (Aug 20, 2010)

Gabrius said:


> Awesome! That's good to know. Have any issues with the car after you put everything back together?
> 
> Anyone else do it this way with success?


0 issues, done 2x this way.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

With regard to preventive measures concerning carbon build-up, have been told that in addition to
installing a catch can, using Techron by Chevron (gas additive) every 3,000 miles helps immensely.
I know that Chevron, and I also believe Texaco, has Techron in their gas but both are not available in
my area.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

This would not help at all, due to the fact that no fuel ever touches the valves, hence, the reason why carbon builds up.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

vwbrvr6 said:


> This would not help at all, due to the fact that no fuel ever touches the valves, hence, the reason why carbon builds up.


thanks for the info.


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## Orion's Belt (Feb 16, 2015)

I gotta applaud all you guys that went and did this job, looks like a hell of a task. Wish I had the talent and tools to pull this off but Im entry level at best and don't have the confidence to do this.

I'm gonna do some searching and see if I find a trustworthy shop in NYC/LI area to do the job, if anyone has any recommendations Id appreciate it!


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## P_layton (Sep 4, 2014)

Deleted


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## P_layton (Sep 4, 2014)

So when I took out the intake manifold all 4 injectors were stuck.... Do I have to take all of them out or can I leave them in the manifold when installing the manifold back?


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

sub'd...have to go back and reread again.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

IF the injectors come out of the head, then seals must be replaced before installation. If they stay in the head, then you could just leave them there. It's not ideal, but since the seals were not disturbed, you should be fine. If they pulled out even a little bit, I would pull them out all the way. clean and use new seals. Look at it this way, if they leak, do you really want to remove the manifold again to fix what you could have prevented?


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## P_layton (Sep 4, 2014)

Fixed the issue I was having 

Future note for anyone with dumb problem I was having. Make sure your injectors are at the right position when pushing them back in the head. You don't need that much force when you find that spot. 

I kept pushing at the wrong angle


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## Bsal (Feb 16, 2015)

Is there any possibility that turning the serpentine belt by hand could cause the timing chain to be damaged or skip a chain since the tensioner isn't engaged when the car is off?


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Rolling the engine backwards will cause damage. Why do you need to turn the engine?


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## Bsal (Feb 16, 2015)

From the first post. You will need to manually turn the serpentine belt to close any valves that are open.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Duh! Yup I knew that. Lesson to self, never respond when over tired. My post still stands, make sure you roll it the way it runs. Reverse will cause damage.


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## P_layton (Sep 4, 2014)

Ohhh sh#t. It didn't dawn on me until now that I pushed the serpetine belt toward the firewall (which I'm pretty sure is the wrong way) when I was doing the install. I was doing This install during midnight (blaming it on me being tired) it didn't move (I'm pretty sure) I don't think anything is wrong with the engine, I really hope not. Feel super stupid now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

For reference, we just changed a water pump on a TSI and the service manual (from VW) when discussing how to remove the drive belt has a big warning about rolling the engine backwards and that damage will occur. they don't however say what. We suspect it will de-tension the timing chain and could possibly jump. Imagine that the tensioner picks up the slack on the back side, so the drive direction is always under tension so to speak. 

See, when I am awake, I am much more coherent.


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## GTI337man02T (Jan 17, 2003)

JRMGTI said:


> Excellent write-up. Lucky for me just got the new manifold and valve cleaning done under warranty.


How many miles on your car? The dealer tried to sell me on this for $160 when I was getting some stuff fixed under warranty. Thought it was crazy since the MKIV never had this problem.


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## bm152 (Sep 21, 2011)

*I spent my weekend cleaning ports*

I just did this to my Tiguan. The procedure write-up is excellent and very helpful, but this isn't a job for the faint of heart. Many of the fasteners and connectors are difficult to see and access. I'm a pretty patient guy, but one frustration after another almost wore me out.

The results were great. The car drives much better. I wish I had done this earlier.

That said, I can't believe every direct injection engine is doomed to suffer from these deposits. There must be a better way.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

bm152 said:


> I just did this to my Tiguan. The procedure write-up is excellent and very helpful, but this isn't a job for the faint of heart. Many of the fasteners and connectors are difficult to see and access. I'm a pretty patient guy, but one frustration after another almost wore me out.
> 
> The results were great. The car drives much better. I wish I had done this earlier.
> 
> That said, I can't believe every direct injection engine is doomed to suffer from these deposits. There must be a better way.


I did my first cleaning at 100k miles and it was pretty bad. Second at 150k and had very little buildup. I had to change water pump at 175k and check for carbon buildup again. This time was almost nothing. I know it varies from engine to engine but doing this 6hrs cleanup every 100k miles is not that bad at all.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Evo V said:


> I did my first cleaning at 100k miles and it was pretty bad. Second at 150k and had very little buildup. I had to change water pump at 175k and check for carbon buildup again. This time was almost nothing. I know it varies from engine to engine but doing this 6hrs cleanup every 100k miles is not that bad at all.


The TSI is better than most DI motors in terms of amount of buildup over periods of time. The way you drive your car has a lot to do with it. City driving is the worst and honestly better to run the snot out of it. 

I'm glad the write-up was helpful to you guys. The ironic thing is I will be following my own DIY to replace my wife's manny in her Tiguan and valve clean while I'm at it. Much more room in the Tiguan vs. GTI. 

-patrick


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## Ed52 (May 21, 2001)

mispost.!


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

I also believe that frequent oil changes 5,000 miles, not the recommended 10,000, with a good quality oil. Significantly reduces the amount of buildup on the valves.


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## Ed52 (May 21, 2001)

vwbrvr6 said:


> I also believe that frequent oil changes 5,000 miles, not the recommended 10,000, with a good quality oil. Significantly reduces the amount of buildup on the valves.


That makes a lot of sense. The cleaner the oil - the cleaner the fumes.


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## iianCC (Oct 20, 2014)

*Thanks*

Great write up, thanks!!. Just changed the intake, I did leave the throttle body on when I removed the old manifold. The support bracket was a bear, but patience was key. The intake ports were caked up pretty good. I used Berrymans B12, then GM Top Engine cleaner. Overall time, including a good cleaning, 7 hrs. I cannot believe the throttle response now.:laugh:


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

*How to Video by The Humble Mechanic*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7c35MJq5e0&feature=youtu.be&list=PLtqrNCuhkOk4WbGoLap4H-W6IGnO40En_


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## Kiyokix (Dec 16, 2005)

Excellent! That is a very useful video. I've gotta do mine fairly soon, and love when I can see the job first. 

Kei


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

*Here's another DIY video*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugh9vPz2Zd8



Robert~NRW said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7c35MJq5e0&feature=youtu.be&list=PLtqrNCuhkOk4WbGoLap4H-W6IGnO40En_


This guy may be a bit more 'rough' with his handling compared with the Humble Mechanic video above but it gives you an idea of what to expect from additional camera angles.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

Robert~NRW said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugh9vPz2Zd8
> 
> 
> 
> This guy may be a bit more 'rough' with his handling compared with the Humble Mechanic video above but it gives you an idea of what to expect from additional camera angles.


Kudos to Edge for putting that video together, but after watching the mechanic toss removed car parts, I would never take any of my cars there.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

VgRt6 said:


> Kudos to Edge for putting that video together, but after watching the mechanic toss removed car parts, I would never take any of my cars there.


haha I noticed that too.


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## DHeffernan (Nov 21, 2014)

I plan on doing this job on a Tiguan in a couple of weeks..

However, what is that fluid that the sprays in there to let it soak for a few minutes? brake cleaner?

Cause if it is brake cleaner.. then he just shots the stuff everywhere after going all over the sensors/wiring.. wtf..

I have a throttle gasket and intake gasket to go for this job. Do I require anything else?


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

Well I took my car to the dealer because I had a slow coolant leak. They are changing the water pump because it is seeping, covered under the CPO warranty. I got the call though, said the valves were all caked up and suggested the carbon cleaning, since the intake was off for the water pump. I figured might as well so I don't have to deal with it later, and at 63,000 miles it's time. I figured for $275 it was worth me not having to spend a whole weekend on it. Though I notice no ill effects from the engine, it was running fine, except for the MPG averaging around 20 mpg I thought that was kinda low, maybe this will help.


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## olaf (Jun 8, 1999)

I did my intake replacement, valve clean, and injector clean at 85k. Big difference. Well worth the effort. I don't think my car has ever run this well or made this much power - no exaggeration. I highly recommend this repair / maintenance procedure. It is not that bad of a procedure if you take your time. Some of the bolt access is a bit snug and there are a few tricks for removal that you will figure out as you go.


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## Bsal (Feb 16, 2015)

What is the recommended way to open and close the valves to keep cleaner and carbon from entering the combustion chamber? It seems the two popular ways are turning the accessory belt or "bumping" the starter while the intake is off. Turning the belt seems easier but isn't there a possibility that doing so could cause the timing chain to skip since the tensioner isn't engaged when the engine isn't running? Planning on doing the cleaning in a day or two so I want to figure out the procedure now. Thanks.


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## DHeffernan (Nov 21, 2014)

Whats used to clean inside where the carbon is? Brake cleaner?

Whats the ETA to complete this job, if you've never done it but are quite mechanical inclined?


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## olaf (Jun 8, 1999)

I pushed my car while it was in gear with the E brake off to rotate the engine. I don't think it can skip any gears. Mine certainly didn't.

I used the GM Upper Engine Cleaner (Genuine GM Fluid 1052626 Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner - 13 oz. Aerosol) and a little bit of carb cleaner at the end to finish it off. The GM cleaner is basically a foamy petroleum solvent. It slowly eats away at the carbon buildup. If you add in a little mechanical agitation via picks, a toothbrush, and some rags, you will eventually get it all out. My valves and ports were almost perfectly silver when I was done. The hardest part is getting the lip of the valve which you can only access when they are in the open position.

As for time, I want to say it took about 2 hours to disassemble everything. Allow a couple of hours for valve cleaning. It took me about 4 because I removed, cleaned, and rebuilt my fuel injectors with new seals, and I also replaced the warrantied intake manifold. If you haven't done that yet, you probably want to, because it will eventually fail and throw a P2015 code. This requires you to transfer the fuel rail and a sensor over to the new manifold. Make sure you have an assortment of Torx bits and extensions. You also need a triple square for one of the brackets. Realize that you have to unclip maybe 10 electrical connectors - lots of fun. This is a relatively easy repair for those used to wrenching VW's, but a lot of the work is in tight quarters.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

DHeffernan said:


> Whats used to clean inside where the carbon is? Brake cleaner?
> 
> Whats the ETA to complete this job, if you've never done it but are quite mechanical inclined?


I used Autozone carb cleaner. Just be sure that valves are closed. The first time around took me 7 hrs to do the job. Second time was about 4 hrs.


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## Midwesterner (Sep 9, 2003)

How do you get a warrientied intake manifold without having the code and the dealer do the work?



olaf said:


> ...and I also replaced the warrantied intake manifold. If you haven't done that yet, you probably want to, because it will eventually fail and throw a P2015 code.


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## olaf (Jun 8, 1999)

That I don't know. Mine had a code and was failing. I tried to reset via VAG and it would come back. I think my sensor died and/or the flapper was sticking. You can submit receipts to VWoA for reimbursement as per their 120k warranty extension campaign. They sent out postcards and letters explaining this situation.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

I was getting the code all last summer and I put it off. Then my battery died, after I put the new battery in the codes were all erased, and it has not come back since, so they won't change it because there are no codes.


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## olaf (Jun 8, 1999)

It may no longer be tripping, but the code is not erased. Once a code has been logged, it doesn't magically disappear. Somebody has to erase the code. Even if your MIL has turned off, the data log will still show the code in the history.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

Well the code reader showed no codes after the battery change, and before the battery change it showed six seperate intake manifold codes....so I don't no.


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## olaf (Jun 8, 1999)

Are you using a Ross-Tech VCDS? With this reader I can see any errors that have been logged even if the MIL is off. They will record as intermittent with a time stamp like this (except it will say MIL OFF):

Thursday,28,May,2015,18:08:46:54903 
VCDS Version: Release 14.10.1 (x64) 

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06J-907-115-CBF.clb 
Control Module Part Number: 1K0 907 115 AL HW: 1K0 907 115 AK 
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0030 
Software Coding: 0403010818070160 
Work Shop Code: WSC 01637 011 00200 
VCID: 70E5D8E0748453F19E0-8025 
1 Fault Found: 

008213 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1) 
P2015 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent - MIL ON 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 10100000 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 11 
Reset counter: 255 
Mileage: 136646 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2000.14.24 
Time: 09:22:49 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 1105 /min 
Load: 36.8 % 
Speed: 6.0 km/h 
Temperature: 29.0*C 
Temperature: 24.0*C 
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar 
Voltage: 13.970 V 


Readiness: 0000 0000


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

I used the autoparts store one, it indicated 5 logged manifold codes and one pending before the battery change. But even VW found no codes stored after  I did have the battery off for like a couple of hours it wasn't a quick swap.


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## olaf (Jun 8, 1999)

I'd just wait until it comes back. These manifolds have a fantastic track record of failing on a regular basis. I was having throttle smoothness issues during cold start all winter. The car finally tripped the code this spring. At the time I was thinking I possibly had a bad throttle body or bad injectors, but once the code tripped, I knew it was the manifold. Sure enough, after the swap and cleaning my car is running like a top. Throttle response is the best it has ever been, the pull from 4-6k is impressive, and I can get as high as 35 mpg hypermiling on my commute to work.


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## DHeffernan (Nov 21, 2014)

Evo V said:


> I used Autozone carb cleaner. Just be sure that valves are closed. The first time around took me 7 hrs to do the job. Second time was about 4 hrs.


Okay, thanks so its just carb cleaner?

How can you actually close these valves? I guess when you turn off the car some are closed some are not? Then you have to fire up the car midst process to close the other ones that weren't?

And does the car actually need to be raised to perform this? Will be working on a Tiguan.. reason I ask my jack is not currently here with me and about 1.5hours away..


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## zrickety (Aug 29, 2012)

Turn the crank pulley by hand (or wrench). Only clockwise I believe.


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## DHeffernan (Nov 21, 2014)

zrickety said:


> Turn the crank pulley by hand (or wrench). Only clockwise I believe.


Won't affect timing?


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

If you turn it the wrong way, you WILL mess up the timing. I don't know the correct direction....choose wisely.

See which way is the right way by having someone start the engine while you watch to see which way it goes.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Always turn the engine in the direction it runs. Rolling it backwards can cause the chain to jump.


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## DHeffernan (Nov 21, 2014)

vwbrvr6 said:


> If you turn it the wrong way, you WILL mess up the timing. I don't know the correct direction....choose wisely.
> 
> See which way is the right way by having someone start the engine while you watch to see which way it goes.


Yah, its clockwise. Engines turn always clockwise.


So does anyone know if I do in fact have to raise the vehicle? It appears its to release the throttle hose but I've also seen a video where the guy just moves it towards the front so not sure if its really necessarily to raise the car?


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## olaf (Jun 8, 1999)

I pushed my car backwards while in 1st gear to rotate the valves. It maybe wasn't the brightest idea, but it worked. Nothing skipped.

You can access the throttle body hose from the top if you are careful and have a good variety of tools.


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## Evo V (Dec 29, 2010)

DHeffernan said:


> Yah, its clockwise. Engines turn always clockwise.
> 
> 
> So does anyone know if I do in fact have to raise the vehicle? It appears its to release the throttle hose but I've also seen a video where the guy just moves it towards the front so not sure if its really necessarily to raise the car?


Mine was on stands and I just turned it by hand. It doesn't take much. I left it on neutral with hand brake applied before I started the job.


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## DHeffernan (Nov 21, 2014)

olaf said:


> I pushed my car backwards while in 1st gear to rotate the valves. It maybe wasn't the brightest idea, but it worked. Nothing skipped.
> 
> You can access the throttle body hose from the top if you are careful and have a good variety of tools.


Ah good call, its an automatic.. so Ill have to apply the hand brake and put it in neutral prior to starting this


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Why? Parking brake is a good idea, but putting in neutral is not needed. Engine will turn while in park. This is how we typically start an automatic vehicle.


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## zrickety (Aug 29, 2012)

For the record, not all engines are clockwise.


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## BryanMKIV (Jan 20, 2014)

Thanks for this thread!


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## tonytouch311 (Mar 5, 2015)

I'll be attempting this soon for the first time, this thread is great... Just to confirm: The injector seals CAN be installed by hand(carefully)? Can I buy the white seals individually?

Also, should the throttle body be cleaned during this processed and can I use the gm cleaner for that?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

tonytouch311 said:


> I'll be attempting this soon for the first time, this thread is great... Just to confirm: The injector seals CAN be installed by hand(carefully)? Can I buy the white seals individually?
> 
> Also, should the throttle body be cleaned during this processed and can I use the gm cleaner for that?


the white seals cannot be done by hand, from what I have read it is still a giant PITA to install even with the correct tool.
You cannot buy just the white seals, you have to buy the full injector seal kit that includes the metal bracket, white seal, and blue seal.

I have removed my manifold a dozen times and have yet to replace the white seals, I have replaced the blue seals almost every time though.

You shouldnt NEED to clean the TB, just inspect it and if there is dirty PCV gunk in there I would apply some TB cleaner to a shop towel and LIGHTLY clean up the gunk. Just be careful around the electronics and the butterfly valve.


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## worded200 (Mar 28, 2016)

I cleaned my valves over the weekend and car drives much better and no misfires while driving. But starting cranks a lot longer and I'm getting misfires in cyclinder 3 and 4 with a check engine and epc light on


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## VentoR6 (Jan 17, 2006)

This is such a long thread sorry if this question has been asked already, but is there a way to make sure the injectors don't come out with the manifold? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Not to my knowledge, it's luck of the draw.


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## VentoR6 (Jan 17, 2006)

shawng said:


> Not to my knowledge, it's luck of the draw.


Thank you, they all came out :banghead: since they came out changed all the seals and was able to get the Teflon ones on with out the tool and no leaking :thumbup:


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Mine stayed in, but I still had to buy the 4 seal kits to change the O-rings. Cost ended up the same. No one wins on this one


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## Imnotacop (Sep 8, 2012)

I just finished the intake valve cleaning on my 2012 CC, the car is running worse than before and I'm throwing codes for a misfire on all 4 cylinders. Can anyone tell me if anything is supposed to be plugged into this harness under the orange plug? Looking through the OP's Photobucket gallery I don't see anything plugged in ther....







Looks like something should go there, but I don't remember unplugging anything from there and I dont see any left over wires/plugs.

Thanks!


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## ChelCC (Sep 1, 2016)

Imnotacop said:


> I just finished the intake valve cleaning on my 2012 CC, the car is running worse than before and I'm throwing codes for a misfire on all 4 cylinders. Can anyone tell me if anything is supposed to be plugged into this harness under the orange plug? Looking through the OP's Photobucket gallery I don't see anything plugged in ther....
> 
> Looks like something should go there, but I don't remember unplugging anything from there and I dont see any left over wires/plugs.
> 
> Thanks!


I just did this last weekend too. The only plug that I remember being down there on the left side was the orange-ish connector that's depicted in your first two pics that was from this step in the OP's list:
24. Disconnect sensor on right side of oil filter / left side of mani; I believe this is the power source for the fuel injectors IIRC

I would recommend going back over all of your connections because I read some threads about people having misfires, several different codes being thrown and other related issues which were later found to be caused by connectors plugged into the wrong spots. I don't remember seeing any plugs that could possibly have been mixed up on my 2013 but hopefully the fix is as simple as that on your 2012.


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## Imnotacop (Sep 8, 2012)

ChelCC said:


> I just did this last weekend too. The only plug that I remember being down there on the left side was the orange-ish connector that's depicted in your first two pics that was from this step in the OP's list:
> 24. Disconnect sensor on right side of oil filter / left side of mani; I believe this is the power source for the fuel injectors IIRC
> 
> I would recommend going back over all of your connections because I read some threads about people having misfires, several different codes being thrown and other related issues which were later found to be caused by connectors plugged into the wrong spots. I don't remember seeing any plugs that could have been mixed up on my 2013 but hopefully the fix is as simple as that on your 2012.


Thanks for the quick reply! 
I don't remember anything that could get mixed up on mine either. The last pic i grabbed from OP's photo album and just circled what I'm talking about. it looks like something should plug in there.....I'd just like to know for sure before I dive back in


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## ChelCC (Sep 1, 2016)

Imnotacop said:


> Thanks for the quick reply!
> I don't remember anything that could get mixed up on mine either. The last pic i grabbed from OP's photo album and just circled what I'm talking about. it looks like something should plug in there.....I'd just like to know for sure before I dive back in


I went to his photo album and zoomed in on that pic and I'm pretty sure that's the plug that clips into the orange-ish connector. Hopefully someone else can chime in and confirm that for you.


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## Imnotacop (Sep 8, 2012)

That plastic piece I was talking about turned out to be nothing, it's just where the two plastic pieces for the injector harness snap together. 

I'm back together and running strong


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## ChelCC (Sep 1, 2016)

Imnotacop said:


> That plastic piece I was talking about turned out to be nothing, it's just where the two plastic pieces for the injector harness snap together.
> 
> I'm back together and running strong



:thumbup:


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## Ultramagnus0001 (Jun 22, 2006)

I'm getting my a misfire on cylinder 3. I Have an epc, traction and abs light. I have a hard start. I can get the car to run by inserting my keys multiple times to prime the pump. The engine light will flash for a misfire and then shut the in injector off to protect the cat from unburnt fuel. I swapped coils to see if the coil was bad and it was good. Any ideas? I'm thinking bad seals, but I would like more insight. I'm thinking a seal shouldn't cause extended cranking, but I'm also not that experienced with these direct injection systems. 2010 Passat wagon.


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## Gear_Cruncher (Mar 28, 2013)

steelcurtain said:


> I've shared an album of pictures of the removal. Look for the red arrows pointing to the bolts, screws, sensors, etc. I apologize for the iphone quality.
> *
> Link to Picture Album:*
> http://s758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/steelcurtain_4550/Manifold Removal/
> ...


Awesome, thanks for the writeup! :thumbup:


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## heliotropic (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm cleaning out my intake ports as part of a manifold replacement and noticed that two of the four flaps that go into the ports are missing one of the little pins on the end that stick into the manifold. I checked the old manifold and they weren't broken off into that, but I'm pretty sure this was removed at least once before because it was missing the bracket that uses the triple square bolt. Is it an issue to reuse the flaps with only one pin?


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## jayski (Apr 26, 2016)

*Many thanks*

I realize this is an old thread, but still applied to my sons 2010 Passat TSI 2.0T intake valve cleaning. It was almost 260km and was a mess inside the valves.
Walnut shell blasted it and used a pick/driver to scrape off as much as we could.
Thank you for posting the how-to. It was very much helpful and was good to know what to expect diving into this project.

The walnut shell cleaning made a hug positive difference in the rough idling and rough driving until the engine hit operating temperature.

One question, that annoying bottom bracket that connects the manifold using a 13mm nut on the threaded post, to the engine with the 10mm triple square bolt.
I didn't bother to re-install this bracket, yet. My question is, how important is it. I read some of the California engines don't even use this bracket, likely due to the emissions parts possibly interfering or perhaps there's some other support in place.

My question is, is that bracket absolutely necessary? It seemed like the throttle body hose sort of supports the front of the manifold enough. Or is there so much boost pressure coming through that the manifold could flex/crack?
I'll go back at it if it really needed but for the sake of my knuckles, lower back and time would rather not lol.

Thanks all!


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## najel (Apr 10, 2008)

jayski said:


> I realize this is an old thread, but still applied to my sons 2010 Passat TSI 2.0T intake valve cleaning. It was almost 260km and was a mess inside the valves.
> Walnut shell blasted it and used a pick/driver to scrape off as much as we could.
> Thank you for posting the how-to. It was very much helpful and was good to know what to expect diving into this project.
> 
> ...


Look at it this way, VW is a publicly traded company, thus they are in the business of generating a profit. If they didn't think this bracket was needed, they probably would not have put it there and saved themselves a couple of pennies on each car sold. 
I remember it being slightly annoying, but not impossible to install again. If it were my car, I would put it back on.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## jayski (Apr 26, 2016)

*Many thanks*



najel said:


> Look at it this way, VW is a publicly traded company, thus they are in the business of generating a profit. If they didn't think this bracket was needed, they probably would not have put it there and saved themselves a couple of pennies on each car sold.
> I remember it being slightly annoying, but not impossible to install again. If it were my car, I would put it back on.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Much appreciated, but that response didn't convince me enough to go back in to re-install the bracket lol.
But I hear you on the VW pennies saved over thousands of vehicles sold. I know there's a reason, I just want to determine if it's worth putting it on.
I'll likely have to do this intake cleaning again in a couple years and it was the most challenging part of the job. Large hands in that tiny confined hose infested area didn't help my cause either :-(

I'm wondering if it's there to prevent some bozo mechanic (like myself) from leaning in and using the manifold to support ones body weight while working on another part of the engine?
If it's a preventative bracket for something like that, I'm leaving it off lol.
Thank you!


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## JoeIsuzu (Dec 13, 2014)

I did my carbon cleaning 50k miles ago at about 90k and there was no bracket there when I took the manifold off. I got the car at 45k miles so it's gone ~100k without that part installed. I believe it's to prevent vibration-induced issues with the intake manifold. Haven't had any yet.

Sent from my SM-N970U1 using Tapatalk


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## Hardworkin13 (May 4, 2017)

I'm having trouble seeing the photos. Is the link provided by the OP still working?


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## 69tr6r (Apr 7, 2020)

I'm about to do this on my son's 2012 GLI. He's got a bunch of error codes and the car runs really rough when cold, plus I'm sure it's never been done and the car is at 124k.

Question about the fuel injector seals. I'm going to buy the new seal kit, but had a couple questions:

a. Is it necessary to use the VW tool for forming the white plastic seal on the tip? I've seen a YT video where the guy didn't use any tool.
b. If the fuel injector won't go back in without forming the seal, can I not bother with replacing that particular seal? Just replace the rubber seals?
c. If I absolutely need the tool, I've seen a kit on Amazon that is about $55. Is that good enough?

Thanks!


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## 69tr6r (Apr 7, 2020)

I started this project over the weekend. The car is a 2012 GLI with about 126k miles on it. I'm sure the intake has never been off. You can see how bad the valves, intake manifold and fuel injectors are. Hardest part of the job so far has been removing the metal manifold support bracket that is under the intake manifold. I had to cut down my triple square socket to make is shorter. This helped to get a ratchet on it. Not sure if that bracket will be resinstalled, lol. Seems like some people are finding it missing after having the service done by a shop. I can see why.

It's amazing the amount of oil that is in the manifold. I saw oil dripping out of the boost pipe and out of the PCV separator. I'm thinking I should replace the PCV separator. The car uses a lot of oil, maybe 2-3 quarts between changes. I would like to replace the manifold as well, but I just did the ECS fix for the lever arm so I don't get the P2015 code any more.

Are there any other updates on the new manifold that are worth the $238 for the new manifold?

I also pulled the plugs, which I did not take pics, and they have white powder on them indicating a lean condition. No kidding, right? I can't see how any fuel was even making it through those injectors. I've begun cleaning the intake, and will hopefully finish the job by the weekend.





  








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## 69tr6r (Apr 7, 2020)

I finished this job over the weekend. I replaced the intake manifold, as well as all 4 fuel injectors, and spark plugs. The car runs great now.


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## findalex (Aug 15, 2018)

I believe the 2012 engines do not have the updated piston rings, so if your intake valves are really carboned up, then it's very likely the oil control piston rings are also in bad shape. 

Unfortunately, to completely fix the problem, you need to replace the piston rings with the new design. The original oil control piston rings had holes that were too small and get clogged up with carbon. When blocked, the rings can't scrape the oil back into the crank case, so the oil gets burned up. Too much oil burning and short drives that do not get the catalytic converter hot enough to burn them off results in a failed catalytic converter.

Changing the PCV is a good idea for a car with this mileage. I have a 2013 A5 w/ EA888 Gen2. I took it apart to check on the diaphram (the part that fails) and it looked brand new. So you may save a few hundred dollars by checking it out first.

You might also consider running a high quality engine flush like Liqui Moly.... multiple cycles if your son does a lot of short drives and neglect oil changes. I've read at least one post of an Audi owner with this engine that used the engine flush and had his oil consumption reduced.


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## 69tr6r (Apr 7, 2020)

Thanks findalex. I wouldn't be surprised if the oil control rings are clogged/not doing their job. I will not be rebuilding the engine though! Good tip on checking the PCV, I did not know that it comes apart to inspect. I will look into the Liqui Moly flush, seems like a good idea.


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## findalex (Aug 15, 2018)

69tr6r said:


> Thanks findalex. I wouldn't be surprised if the oil control rings are clogged/not doing their job. I will not be rebuilding the engine though! Good tip on checking the PCV, I did not know that it comes apart to inspect. I will look into the Liqui Moly flush, seems like a good idea.


Be careful when you pop the circular cap off the PCV. I took off the entire thing and then popped the top off since I can get at the tabs from a much better angle. The plastic cap is made of hard plastic, so if you try to pry too hard, it may crack. It is doable, just do a little on each tab at a time. It's not as easy as just popping one tab off and then the rest will be easy. Being a German car, NOTHING is easy.


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