# Malone Tuning Frankenturbo



## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

hello, anyone else using Malone Tuning for their Frankenturbo? if so how does your car run? boost levels? are you on a base tune?

So far i have a "base tune". when first starting and letting the car warm up for a few minutes....if i try hitting the gas the car bogs down...He has had my logs for over a week now and i still havent heard anything, dunno if im being impatient or not :/

2001 AWW 1.8t 
F4T 
440 green injectors 
3" maf
Godspeed SMIC
3" downpipe with highflow cat
2.5" cat back


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Ok, he's had your logs for a week...

Have you tried contacting him since sending your logs to see how things are going or to follow up?

I hope you have, because it's not cool to come on here and complain about a business being unresponsive if you haven't voiced your complaint with them first.

As to the bogging, I'd look at your AFR. I bet it has something to do with your front O2 sensor, exhaust leak, or boost/intake leak. Just throwin ideas in the dark.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

groggory said:


> Ok, he's had your logs for a week...
> 
> Have you tried contacting him since sending your logs to see how things are going or to follow up?
> 
> ...


yes i have emailed him twice after i sent him the logs...the car does boost to about 20 and holds it great, it just still seems "weak" for instance...i cant even spin wheels in 2nd gear with stock tires...and im soon gonna be puttin on 18's 8.5" up front and 9.5" in the back. how far should the wastegate nuts be down? theyre pretty close to the end(not cranked at all) all i wanted to hear from him was yea im still working on the logs, but i havent heard anything. i sent the logs on 4/16 dunno if he works saturdays or not...i dont want it to seem like im complaining...i just wanted to know whats goin on ya know?


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> yes i have emailed him twice after i sent him the logs...the car does boost to about 20 and holds it great, it just still seems "weak" for instance...i cant even spin wheels in 2nd gear with stock tires...and im soon gonna be puttin on 18's 8.5" up front and 9.5" in the back. how far should the wastegate nuts be down? theyre pretty close to the end(not cranked at all) all i wanted to hear from him was yea im still working on the logs, but i havent heard anything. i sent the logs on 4/16 dunno if he works saturdays or not...i dont want it to seem like im complaining...i just wanted to know whats goin on ya know?


I'd give it a couple more days given that we just had the easter long weekend. Automotive places get swamped this time of year as everyone wants their stuff "right now" for spring.

I had to request dyno time locally about a month ago and I just got a response last week. This time of the year sucks if you are in a rush.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

sabbySC said:


> I'd give it a couple more days given that we just had the easter long weekend. Automotive places get swamped this time of year as everyone wants their stuff "right now" for spring.
> 
> I had to request dyno time locally about a month ago and I just got a response last week. This time of the year sucks if you are in a rush.


yea well im learning to be real patient....my car has been down for over 6 months...long process getting all the stuff needed....and its finally starting to be nice weather and i wanna drive my car! haha


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

i do own a VCDS i just checked my intake air mass at idle which stayed at 2.56 and my ignition timing angle was going from 1.5 up to 10 at idle...not sure if thats normal or not? 

which groups should i check...i can run some logs and post em up if someone wants to check em out? or i could email them actually cause i dont know how to post up logs haha


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Post your logs that you sent to him on here. Maybe we can play with them a bit.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

groggory said:


> Post your logs that you sent to him on here. Maybe we can play with them a bit.


i have them on my email...do i gotta upload them on photobucket or something? i have never posted a pic on vwvortex  theyre in microsoft excel


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Mark is usually quick to respond to emails unless he's out of town working on some insanely awesome project car. I understand that this can be annoying, but this is a small price of individualized service.

You should upload the file directly using localhostr or Dropbox


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Your MAF is reading way low. It's maxing out at 100g/s HARD.
Your timing pull is huge.
Your specified boost is up at 22 PSI but your actual boost is down at well...nothing

I'm thinking you have a major post-turbo (compressor side) boost leak.
I'd do a vac/pressure test and check for leaks.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

google is your friend..u can upload the excel files and host them...


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-115-020.CSV


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

when i purchased the kit from Doug he told me i was getting a tt225 sensor....but hes also letting me know that its been a dodgy sensor that other people are having problems with


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-118-031.CSV


im not sure if these are working or not


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

groggory said:


> Your MAF is reading way low. It's maxing out at 100g/s HARD.
> Your timing pull is huge.
> Your specified boost is up at 22 PSI but your actual boost is down at well...nothing
> 
> ...


alright thanks...ill do that tomorrow if i have time...i had a pressure test made up for my stock TIP but now i need a new one for the 3" TIP


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

I did the copy paste from his last post and I think it didn't all line up right. I'm going to re-read the file from the csv...

You gunned it at 2400 RPM and the timing pull was huge. Timing pull didn't get reasonable until around 2800 RPM. I bet your AFR's are way off. Could be front O2 sensor. Could be exhaust leak. Could be vac leak. Not likely boost leak...your requested and actual boost levels look good.

Your timing is up near 15 degrees as you near redline, so I'd be interested in seeing that plotted next to lambda and injector duty cycles.

Your MAF readings look gravy.

I'd like to see some AFR's.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

erevlydeux said:


> Looks like he's maxing out near 200g/s rather than 100g/s. Timing pull does look huge. Actual boost appears to be far more than nothing. Up at atleast 17psi if my math is correct. (2200mbar = 30.9psi - atmospheric = ~17psi)


My copy and paste off his post put all my data one column off..which meant my data was garbage. Disregard my first summary of the data. My second summary is more on target.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

so the links worked or what? and if i gotta run some new logs i can...just tell me what i gotta log. those logs were with the stock SMIC on...i now have on my godspeed smic


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> so the links worked or what? and if i gotta run some new logs i can...just tell me what i gotta log. those logs were with the stock SMIC on...i now have on my godspeed smic


reminder...this is a base tune...Mark may just need to fine tune some stuff and those logs were in 3rd gear attempting from 2k rpms


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

The logs you emailed me worked.

Here's the ones with the AFR


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

groggory said:


> The logs you emailed me worked.
> 
> Here's the ones with the AFR


ok good...only thing is, i dont know if those readings are good or bad? do i still need to check for leaks, or is the rest up to Mark to tune?


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> so the links worked or what? and if i gotta run some new logs i can...just tell me what i gotta log. those logs were with the stock SMIC on...i now have on my godspeed smic


The Dropbox links work fine :thumbup:

Everything I see in the log suggests that the tune itself is fine, and that your problems might be hardware related... Log 003-020-115 and 003-118-031 (same groups) again with the new SMIC and report back. Mark can revise the tune to have zero timing pull, but he'll need updated information


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Your stock SMIC can't cut it. Look at that IAT! Just super high! A FMIC will definitely help keep the timing under control. I bet that IAT is a big cause for all the timing pull.


Other than that, I'd check for exhaust leaks. Do the seafoam test. Your AFR is a bit slow to react and your timing seems to follow.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

bootymac said:


> The Dropbox links work fine :thumbup:
> 
> Everything I see in the log suggests that the tune itself is fine, and that your problems might be hardware related... Log 003-020-115 and 003-118-031 (same groups) again with the new SMIC and report back. Mark can revise the tune to have zero timing pull, but he'll need updated information


ok ill post them up tomorrow aslong as the roads aren't wet, and thanks for all the help and answers! i really appreciate it :beer:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

groggory said:


> Your stock SMIC can't cut it. Look at that IAT! Just super high! A FMIC will definitely help keep the timing under control. I bet that IAT is a big cause for all the timing pull.
> 
> 
> Other than that, I'd check for exhaust leaks. Do the seafoam test. Your AFR is a bit slow to react and your timing seems to follow.


hey you mentioned seafoam...was reading up on how to do it...and noticed some negative feedback, like it thins out your oil a lot, also can ruin your cat cause the engine runs real hot? are these things i need to worry about?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Seafoam has lots of uses.

What you do is have a friend bring up the rpms a bit, and feed some seafoam from a pulled vac line dipped in the seafoam bottle. Do not let the engine stall! Make sure your friend feeds more gas as the engine starts bellowing white smoke from the tail pipe. Remember, you can always pull the tube out of the bottle.

The seafoam is cleaning your intake Mani, cylinders, exhaust mani, and exhaust.

As a side benefit, all that smoke makes finding exhaust leaks super easy.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> hey you mentioned seafoam...was reading up on how to do it...and noticed some negative feedback, like it thins out your oil a lot, also can ruin your cat cause the engine runs real hot? are these things i need to worry about?


Oh, and as far as using seafoam for oil. Yes, it does thin it out a lot. That's why you use it, do the treatment, and then change your oil.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-115-020.CSV
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-118-031.CSV


these are the new logs with the Godspeed SMIC


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-115-020.CSV
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-118-031.CSV
> 
> 
> these are the new logs with the Godspeed SMIC


I was worried that the Godspeed SMIC wouldn't be sufficient (my larger Eurojet SMIC is barely enough for my K04-001) and it looks like I was right, as IATs nearly double. However, you're not pulling any timing which is good. I would imagine that you would have some more potential with a better intercooler

Just a couple notes about some logging habits though. Combine the 003-115-020 and 003-118-031 sheets into the same file, and use different files for different logging dates. I usually delete all the data that's not associated with the pull too. It makes it much easier for those who are looking at your logs


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

bootymac said:


> I was worried that the Godspeed SMIC wouldn't be sufficient (my larger Eurojet SMIC is barely enough for my K04-001) and it looks like I was right, as IATs nearly double. However, you're not pulling any timing which is good. I would imagine that you would have some more potential with a better intercooler
> 
> Just a couple notes about some logging habits though. Combine the 003-115-020 and 003-118-031 sheets into the same file, and use different files for different logging dates. I usually delete all the data that's not associated with the pull too. It makes it much easier for those who are looking at your logs


it was a lot hotter today than when i did the previous logs, and thanks for the input on the logs ill do that for now on...but im still concerned...the car doesnt really put me in the seat..my old ko3s on an aggressive GIAC tune hauled compared to this new setup...2nd gear doesnt even spin wheels on stock tires...do i need to crank my wastegate? theres only like 1-2 threads exposed(not cranked at all) or does Mark need to fine tune things?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9842192/jersey.xlsx


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

That turbo is really getting that air hot.

Maybe a heat blanket on the turbo and some venting behind the SMIC would be good. I think your timing pull would go down if you could get your intake air temps under control.

Water/ Meth would definetely do you good. Mostly for the cooling properties of the water spray.

I'm thinking a nice pre-throttle body sprayer for you. Maybe an M6 nozzle and a MAP based controller.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

groggory said:


> That turbo is really getting that air hot.
> 
> Maybe a heat blanket on the turbo and some venting behind the SMIC would be good. I think your timing pull would go down if you could get your intake air temps under control.
> 
> ...


so your saying ditch the godspeed smic? ive noticed that everything is rather hot in my car pretty quick.... so im curious, is this all the faster my car is gonna feel, untill i get the temps down? or is there something else wrong?

as for venting the plastic part is broken out behind the intercooler from the car bein lowered, should i try modding the air duct back onto the new godspeed smic?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> so your saying ditch the godspeed smic? ive noticed that everything is rather hot in my car pretty quick.... so im curious, is this all the faster my car is gonna feel, untill i get the temps down? or is there something else wrong?
> 
> as for venting the plastic part is broken out behind the intercooler from the car bein lowered, should i try modding the air duct back onto the new godspeed smic?


I 'THINK' the air temps are what's holding your setup back.

How hot out is it when you did your test runs?

I can't picture exactly what you're talking about...but if you can somehow get more air across the intercooler :thumbup:


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

PS...why would you crank your wastegate? Look at the boost logs. You're boosting up to like 22PSI beautifully.

I think the problem here stems from the fact that your temps are too high. Maybe you need to add some heat shielding...maybe you need to do more with your intercooler setup. I dunno.

Can you post some pictures of how you installed this whole thing?

What kind of exhaust are you running? What kind of downpipe are you running? Cat or no cat? What kind of car is this installed in?

Are you willing to try out meth to get temps down? I have an old snow performance kit that is unused that I could sell to you for a very reasonable price if you are interested. PM me for details if you're interested. This could help out with your temps a ton.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

how about putting on a power gasket...i still have it sitting in my room along with some other maintenance stuff

yea i can take pics but my car looks like a mess haha....ill try to take some tomorrow with my phone

car is a 2001 AWW gti with 76k miles 
FT kit 
440 green injectors
godspeed smic
3" eurojet downpipe with highflow cat
2.5" cat back AWE tuning
forge DV
overboost valve

it was about 75 degrees out


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> how about putting on a power gasket...i still have it sitting in my room along with some other maintenance stuff
> 
> yea i can take pics but my car looks like a mess haha....ill try to take some tomorrow with my phone
> 
> ...


Do you have an infrared heat gun?

I'd be interested in you going for a spin, then pulling over and checking temps on some of the critical areas.


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

I think you don't realize that Malone Tunes are usually more linear compared to other tuners. The linear power delivery might "feel" slower because there's no sudden surge of boost, but in reality it is much better and more drivable.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

i have this little handheld thing called a cen-tech laser light, and if i point it at things it gives me temps...would that work? where do you want me to check?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

bootymac said:


> I think you don't realize that Malone Tunes are usually more linear compared to other tuners. The linear power delivery might "feel" slower because there's no sudden surge of boost, but in reality it is much better and more drivable.


Good point.

Doesn't it look like his IATs are what's holding him back though? Everything else looks pretty spot on. The IATs are causing timing pull which is robbing horsepower.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

bootymac said:


> I think you don't realize that Malone Tunes are usually more linear compared to other tuners. The linear power delivery might "feel" slower because there's no sudden surge of boost, but in reality it is much better and more drivable.


gotcha....well do you think he could make it more aggressive or what? im still waiting to hear back from him


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Look at the graphs, the boost comes on hard and fast...but because of the timing pull you're not going to feel all the benefits.

Yes, that laser light is actually Infrared light + laser pointer (to aim).

Let the engine run with the hood open for 5 or 10 minutes. Measure
Do a hard run. Open the hood. Measure

- intake tube
- somewhere in the shade (for ambient temps)
- turbo
- exhaust manifold
- compressor tubing (pre intercooler)
- compressor tubing (post intercooler)
- intake manifold (main body)
- valve cover
- pick a spot somewhere on the firewall

Have a friend help you so you can just read off the numbers and have him record them down.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

alright, just took my car for a drive, its about 68* outside, car def was quicker, still feels like its lacking power though. i honestly believe that i should have wheel spin in 2nd gear, im bout to put on my wide tires with sticky summer tires...so they can hold the power...i checked a few spots after the run....in fahrenheit
exhaust was like 400*
pancake pipe was like 122* 
bottom of SMIC was 80-90* 
top of smic was 70*
charge pipe right after turbo was around 200*
intake manifold was around 90-100 at the time...

im goin to do a more detailed check with the infared tomorrow, these were things i checked on my own before reading your post groggory

what if i upgrade the pancake pipe and put on my power gasket...would that make up for it or nah?


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

groggory said:


> Doesn't it look like his IATs are what's holding him back though? Everything else looks pretty spot on. The IATs are causing timing pull which is robbing horsepower.


There's no doubt that colder IATs are better, but I'm not seeing any timing retardation (020) in his WOT pull


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

remember this is a base tune...we will know more once Mark gets back in touch and checks out the logs for himself, thanks for all the input and help so far :thumbup:


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

I just talked to him on the phone and here's what it sounds like the real issue is..

When he first got the kit the wastegate nut had backed off...It wasn't locked down tight straight from the 'factory.' He left it mostly loose and put it back on and locktite'd it up.

So now the question is, how many threads should be showing on a stock frankenturbo wastegate actuator rod?

That could be why the actual boost is below the requested boost in the lower revs.

Oh, and bootymac, I misread my graphs. The IATs are high, but you're right, the timing pull isn't that big a deal. I think this wastegate issue is the core.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

adjusted the nuts down a little bit further and the car is already responding better, not sure if its because its also cooler out...if its not raining i will post more logs tomorrow after work


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> adjusted the nuts down a little bit further and the car is already responding better, not sure if its because its also cooler out...if its not raining i will post more logs tomorrow after work


That's awesome.

Little crank on the wastegate. Log it, analyze it, see what to do.
...then repeat


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

Your air intake temps are OFF the chart high... holy crap...

just to give you an idea my logs with a kinetic FMIC and a k03 are in the range of about 15-18C your at like 54 full tilt! Also they rise substantially in extremely short period of time... your jump 3-5C in less then a second, your intercooler isn't up to the task your putting it through. My guess is that your temps are getting soo high that your entering fuel dump mode.... your AFR is extremely rich from that last log, if you want to keep the side mount you need to place a vent out the back of the wheel well... theres a DIY about adding an audi TT fender well vent. Highly suggest doing that, the timinig pull isn't that bad but damn your intake air temps are extremely high I would go with a FMIC, I can only guess your EGT's are going over 1500 or so cause the computer to dump fuel.

I know it's tough to wait for responses from Mark, but he's only 1 man trying to help a multitude of people. But I would rather wait and know he's putting his full attention into each response then have short quick responses that show other wise, he really knows his stuff and will do his best to help you out but from the logs it looks like it's mroe of a hardware problem rather then a tune problem at this point.

Also don't judge the tune off the simple fact your not breaking second lose like your GIAC tune did, I went form GIAC to Malone and the same thing happened, but over all the car is faster, easier to drive and gets better milage. Although with the 21PSI tune from Malone I can still chirp 3rd if I really try =P


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

I think he's already running without a wheel well liner...because he dropped it so low.

I may be mistaken.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

if that's the case he needs w/m injection or to upgrade to a FMIC, because 54C is 129F... you might as well not even being running an intercooler at all at that point!

a powergasket isn't gonna solve this problem you need a WAY more efficient intercooling system

honestly sell that godspeed SMIC, use that money towards a good FMIC system with a QUALITY core, sorry I don't even thing god speed FMIC is gonna cut it, you need a nice dense core like Eurojet,kinetic,APR, or hell if you got a good fab shop pick up a good spearco core and have custom pipes made for it. whatever you do get a good dense thick quality FMIC system and get those intake temps down they are what is killing your power! Dicking with the wastegate or anything else is just going to make the problem worse, your ecu is dumping fuel in order to try and lower your outstandingly high EGTs, your AFR is like 11:1 and nothing mark can do will fix that until the temps get lowered since its your computer entering fuel dump mode.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Downey

Your boost onset is pretty sluggish -- which I'd attribute to an improperly-set actuator preload. You need to get it to the 8psi level required by Malone's software. At that point you should see the turbo meeting requests at about the pace shown here.










Keep in mind, this is a BASE Stage 1 file from another software vendor. The pace of boost onset is the only thing I'm trying to illustrate here.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Downey
> 
> Your boost onset is pretty sluggish -- which I'd attribute to an improperly-set actuator preload. You need to get it to the 8psi level required by Malone's software. At that point you should see the turbo meeting requests at about the pace shown here.
> 
> ...


Yep. Apparently the F4T kit had a loose nut on the WG actuator rod and it came loose on him. He didn't tighten it up very much and then locked it back down.

Slappy, do you know how many threads show on a stock F4T wastegate actuator rod?


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

I can't believe I forgot all about the wastegate actuator. Now that I think about it, this might be the situation I'm experiencing as well with my K04-001:










Any thoughts? Should I try adjusting my actuator?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

bootymac said:


> I can't believe I forgot all about the wastegate actuator. Now that I think about it, this might be the situation I'm experiencing as well with my K04-001:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like it could use a little cranking, bring that actual curve to the left a bit.


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## leonardodecappiccuno (Oct 17, 2008)

groggory said:


> Yep. Apparently the F4T kit had a loose nut on the WG actuator rod and it came loose on him. He didn't tighten it up very much and then locked it back down.
> 
> Slappy, do you know how many threads show on a stock F4T wastegate actuator rod?



Good question, I have asked the same one myself, Ref nut on actuator rod, still waiting for an reply, on another F4T thread

Regards Lenny


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

cranking it down a little bit has helped...but my car bogs soo bad before its completely warmed up...still waiting to hear from Mark, i dont even wanna drive my car anymore untill the bog is figured out

ps. my car never bogged like this before with the frankenturbo on with a ko3s chipped ecu and stock injectors and stock MAF, but now it has on the 3"maf 440 injectors and now it bogs, so something isnt reading correctly or the tune needs tweaked.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

I don't know if it is what you are looking for, but My F4 has 13 threads showing on the wastegate actuator. It is still in the plastic in a box on my living room floor. lol


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

hatetolovemydub said:


> I don't know if it is what you are looking for, but My F4 has 13 threads showing on the wastegate actuator. It is still in the plastic in a box on my living room floor. lol


Doug said i cant go off how many threads are showing, i need some type of gauge to set it. i do know that 13 threads are not showing, maybe like 5 if that hard to get a good look behind the engine


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Cryser said:


> if that's the case he needs w/m injection or to upgrade to a FMIC, because 54C is 129F... you might as well not even being running an intercooler at all at that point!
> 
> a powergasket isn't gonna solve this problem you need a WAY more efficient intercooling system
> 
> honestly sell that godspeed SMIC, use that money towards a good FMIC system with a QUALITY core, sorry I don't even thing god speed FMIC is gonna cut it, you need a nice dense core like Eurojet,kinetic,APR, or hell if you got a good fab shop pick up a good spearco core and have custom pipes made for it. whatever you do get a good dense thick quality FMIC system and get those intake temps down they are what is killing your power! Dicking with the wastegate or anything else is just going to make the problem worse, your ecu is dumping fuel in order to try and lower your outstandingly high EGTs, your AFR is like 11:1 and nothing mark can do will fix that until the temps get lowered since its your computer entering fuel dump mode.


i just made a post to try and sell the godspeed smic, which is $250 obo it has literally 20 miles on it...i will buy a fmic if thats what it takes, but i know for a fact the fmic will not fix this bogging issue, so what could cause it? the MAF that doug supplied in the FT kit? the tune? cause the car didnt do it before, only after i put on the rest of my stuff (injectors, 3" MAF and installed the tune from Mark)


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> i just made a post to try and sell the godspeed smic, which is $250 obo it has literally 20 miles on it...i will buy a fmic if thats what it takes, but i know for a fact the fmic will not fix this bogging issue, so what could cause it? the MAF that doug supplied in the FT kit? the tune? cause the car didnt do it before, only after i put on the rest of my stuff (injectors, 3" MAF and installed the tune from Mark)



Doug had some problems with his 3" Maf sensors...


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

pics of the SMIC installed, also shows how my liner is missing for the most part cause of my car being lowered

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/smic 002.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/smic 003.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/smic 004.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/smic 005.jpg


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

1st blaming OEM 3" MAF sensors is lame. Thats an excuse period.

2nd Yes your intake temps are very high BUT not until 6300ish RPM, depending on his tuning; most tunes wont' give timing pull until the 50 degree mark is passed. So I believe that has nothing do do with your sluggish low response.

3rd Try seafoaming just to be sure you have no leaks.

4th Green Tops?? Okay I have no personal experience or knowledge with them. So I have no right to say if they are good or not but I'm pretty sure there is a reason all tuners pretty much abandonded their original 440cc green top files. This is like 2002 all over again.

5th Cranking the wastegate will bring on boost sooner and be more responsive. I do not know how far you can take yours down but I cranked both my k03 and k04's about 10 turns past OEM position with no ill effects.

6th Your igition timing angle looks screwy to me, I need to compare some of my logs to see but something looks funny. I don't know if its super conservative or something is affecting it. Your GIAC file probably ran more timing (they usually do) which is why the car felt like it had more balls. However, you should be breaking the tires loose in 2nd easy IMO.

EDIT: Log your knock, unless I missed it, something is going on down low (actually almost the whole curve) thats killing your timing. I'd suggest maybe upgrading the n75 (j or h), or mbc but to help your curve but I'm pretty sure there is an underlying issue here.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> 1st blaming OEM 3" MAF sensors is lame. Thats an excuse period.
> 
> 2nd Yes your intake temps are very high BUT not until 6300ish RPM, depending on his tuning; most tunes wont' give timing pull until the 50 degree mark is passed. So I believe that has nothing do do with your sluggish low response.
> 
> ...


thanks for the input...the Maf from doug isnt an OEM one its an equivalent or "proper", when i have time this weekend i will do a pressure test and see about seafoam, i also cranked the wastegate and it has improved things...i can spin tires a little in 2nd now, 3rd gear feels weak 4th and 5th pull pretty hard, the turbo holds boost great in 4th and 5th but i want more umph in 2nd and especially 3rd. i can take any logs needed...i just need to know which people want me to log...i wanna make some logs at night when its cooler out see how much that helps


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

TooLFan46n2 said:


> 4th Green Tops?? Okay I have no personal experience or knowledge with them. So I have no right to say if they are good or not but I'm pretty sure there is a reason all tuners pretty much abandonded their original 440cc green top files. This is like 2002 all over again.


I don't know why Bosch had to go and do this, but subsequent to developing the 440cc Green *TOPS* injectors, they came out with another Green-colored 440cc injector which we now know by the nick Green *GIANTS*. All of the historically buggy software (ca. 2002) was hampered by the ill-suited Green Tops. The newer GIANTS have the proper flow pattern to be used in the 20v engines.

Another myth: Green Giants flow 415cc. Not true; they flow 440cc of petrol at 3bar fuel rail pressure, just as Bosch rates them.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Now that you've cranked the wastegate, let's see some more logs

boost actual
boost requested
knock
timing btdc
IAT


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> Doug said i cant go off how many threads are showing, i need some type of gauge to set it. i do know that 13 threads are not showing, maybe like 5 if that hard to get a good look behind the engine


The proper way to set it is by applying a precision pressure source to the wastegate actuator...then having a feeler gauge on a given spot of the flap. You adjust the nut so x PSI of pressure on the actuator will cause the flap to open y inches.

You can't do that unless you pull the turbo off or pull the downpipe off.

So the threads is just a rough guess...then just crank a little....log a little...and go back and forth until the logs look proper.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

slappy_dunbar said:


> I don't know why Bosch had to go and do this, but subsequent to developing the 440cc Green *TOPS* injectors, they came out with another Green-colored 440cc injector which we now know by the nick Green *GIANTS*. All of the historically buggy software (ca. 2002) was hampered by the ill-suited Green Tops. The newer GIANTS have the proper flow pattern to be used in the 20v engines.
> 
> Another myth: Green Giants flow 415cc. Not true; they flow 440cc of petrol at 3bar fuel rail pressure, just as Bosch rates them.


Thanks for clearing that up, I was wondering what was going on, going back to the OLD green tops really didn't seem advantagous. :thumbup:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

ok i have new logs, now with the wastegate cranked a little more
these are third gear pull from 2k

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-115-020.CSV

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-118-031.CSV

i dont hit full boost untill around 3k which seems a little high still would like to hit full boost sooner, atleast in second gear

and these are the ones that mark requested be done to figure out why my car runs like crap and bogs untill warmed up

also these logs are at idle the one labeled start is first start of the day,
and the other is after car has been warmed up completely

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-031-032-033 first start.CSV

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-031-032-033.CSV


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> ok i have new logs, now with the wastegate cranked a little more
> these are third gear pull from 2k
> 
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-115-020.CSV
> ...


0-redline logs 








http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9842192/jersey-new.xlsx

idle logs








http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9842192/jersey-idle.xlsx


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Timing pull looks pretty reasonable
IATs are still high
MAF reading looks reasonable
Lambda at idle looks like poo - I bet the RPM bounces at idle a pretty fair amount. I would look into why this is happening


So in short, I would figure out why you have the bouncy idle. If you have checked and have no exhaust or intake leaks then I'm suspecting your front O2 sensor is giving you bad data...perhaps slow readings. I would look into getting the front O2 sensor replaced. That's my opinion on fixing the idle issue.

I think if you can fix your idle issue, you'll fix the bogging issue that you're complaining about.

Also, did you end up replacing your fuel filter? I replace mine when I have weird fueling issues and the gas I pour out of it has looked pretty scary dirty as it came out in the past.

What do the rest of the 20v people think of these logs?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

groggory said:


> Timing pull looks pretty reasonable
> IATs are still high
> MAF reading looks reasonable
> Lambda at idle looks like poo - I bet the RPM bounces at idle a pretty fair amount. I would look into why this is happening
> ...


well its weird...once my car is completely warmed up...it idles perfectly fine and doesnt bog, only thing other than that is i hate how i dont get full boost till 3k rpm, do i need to crank the wastegate more?

and i havent changed anything just yet, im goin to the store right now to pick up the stuff needed to do a pressure test


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

ok did a pressure test and found no leaks, other than air coming out of the pinhole on the overboost valve, which Doug (Slappy) told me was normal


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> after further inspection...it looks like where the one fitting was soldered in, when they drilled that hole they must have drilled through to far and poked through the other side just a little bit.


Downey -- the boostvalve needs to have that pinhole on its body to prevent air pressure from "locking" the actuator open. The pinhole would need to be somewhere on the DASHED RED ARROW as shown in the sequence in this illustration.










Since the bleed is behind the valve, you should be able to pressure test the system up to the boostvalve's release pressure before the bleed would release your charged air to atmosphere.


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## leftside (Sep 25, 2005)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Since the bleed is behind the valve, you should be able to pressure test the system up to the boostvalve's release pressure before the bleed would release your charged air to atmosphere.


Hmmm. Mine releases air with any amount pressure present in the system.....


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

What about a bad front o2 sensor?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

leftside said:


> Hmmm. Mine releases air with any amount pressure present in the system.....


so does mine, i had to hold my finger over the hole to check for leaks, i actually wanna do another pressure test and put the pressure up a little more...nothin about 20 psi though


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> so does mine, i had to hold my finger over the hole to check for leaks, i actually wanna do another pressure test and put the pressure up a little more...nothin about 20 psi though


Check this out off the frankenturbo site









Is he supposed to be getting high 200's (like 280) grams/second out of his MAF? He's only showing like 200 g/s. I wonder if malone isn't accounting for the larger MAF housing properly.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

i unplugged my MAF for a cold start and the car started up perfect with no bogging issue or misfires, and took the car for a drive and it was pulling pretty good


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

groggory said:


> Check this out off the frankenturbo site
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a graphic for the bigger F23 turbo. The F4 seems to be topping out at 225+ g/s. No more than that.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> i unplugged my MAF for a cold start and the car started up perfect with no bogging issue or misfires, and took the car for a drive and it was pulling pretty good


I'd say go do some more logging on the MAF-unhooked setup. See what they look like.

This feels like a bad MAF sensor issue to me. You already double checked for intake leaks, so that makes me think MAF now.

I would get a new MAF and see where you are with these problems.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

280g/s from the F23?
Really?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Bill -- that's a flow rating chart. It is independent of any specific motor and derived from the compressor maps. So it's most useful as a one-glance comparison among differing compressor designs. How well the turbos stack up to the theoretical maps is dependent upon a number of factors, which is why your big 2283-based K03 hybrid is making far less than this.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

just purchased a remanufactured OEM tt225 MAF, ill get some more logs up when it comes in


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Bill -- that's a flow rating chart. It is independent of any specific motor and derived from the compressor maps. So it's most useful as a one-glance comparison among differing compressor designs. How well the turbos stack up to the theoretical maps is dependent upon a number of factors, which is why your big 2283-based K03 hybrid is making far less than this.


ok, thanks for confirming.
For sure the whole package influences the outputs massively as we see.
2283k03 in the lupo on std hotside (unported) is the choke, which is no surprise. 19psi boost which is very modest 1.3bar is churning a little over 300bhp(fly) where the normal k03 hybrids over here make 260bhp un-aided by wmi with 1.4-1.5bar boost
Pleasing tho is no surge on the 2283/k03 on smallport.

On the CR/2283/k04 max logged g/s seen is 255-265g/s region from 1.4bar


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

ok i've had the new MAF for a couple days now, the car still bogs a little when first warming up for a couple minutes. debating if i should take new logs or not, Mark said he was workin on a new file about 2 weeks ago. he must be backed up cause now he has an email response saying it will be a couple days to respond  so far its taken about a month and a half to get 2 files made, waiting on a third that will hopefully be smooth


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## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> ok i've had the new MAF for a couple days now, the car still bogs a little when first warming up for a couple minutes. debating if i should take new logs or not, Mark said he was workin on a new file about 2 weeks ago. he must be backed up cause now he has an email response saying it will be a couple days to respond  so far its taken about a month and a half to get 2 files made, waiting on a third that will hopefully be smooth


marks on vacation this week, I've been working with him as well so don't expect a response until possibly next Monday when he gets back


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

mk4boost said:


> marks on vacation this week, I've been working with him as well so don't expect a response until possibly next Monday when he gets back


oh woulda been nice to get my file 2 weeks ago when he said he was working on it :/


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## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> oh woulda been nice to get my file 2 weeks ago when he said he was working on it :/


umm yea, not to bash him... but he's a little too bust for his own good, he was working on my file for about the same time, so my car is now built sitting like a rock on the side of my house now... been driven it stock injectors and maf and babying it to get to work when I have to but I'm trying not to


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

mk4boost said:


> umm yea, not to bash him... but he's a little too bust for his own good, he was working on my file for about the same time, so my car is now built sitting like a rock on the side of my house now... been driven it stock injectors and maf and babying it to get to work when I have to but I'm trying not to


yea he is too busy, he should stop taking on new clients and help the ones that have already paid, what would he be doing if i had to rent a loader? this shouldnt take this long. i've been waiting and waiting. im just runin out of time here...ive owned the frankenturbo kit for like 6 months now and im runnin out of warranty time! haha i dont even drive the car cause of the way it runs for the first couple minutes


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

shoulda gone uni or eurodyne or even BT.

not sur eif this has been asked, but, are the malone files tweakable with uni settings? if so, ad 1 or 2 to the idle torque and see if it helps....also try to datalog right after you start the car and watch block 31 first window...


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

new logs, i have a few different ones...these are 3rd gear pull from 2k rpm

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-115-020.CSV

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-118-031.CSV


This one is of the car cold start

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-031-032-033first start.CSV


this is after the car is warmed up

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-031-032-033warmedup.CSV

and i did one more log after the car idled for about 5-10 minutes

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-031-032-033reallywarmedup.CSV


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

sorry man..if you use goggle dox and it displays the actualy setup liekin excell i would look at those..i don't wanna spend time deciphering that lol


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> new logs, i have a few different ones...these are 3rd gear pull from 2k rpm
> 
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27275194/LOG-01-003-115-020.CSV
> 
> ...



so i dont know much when im looking at these logs, but i can see that my actual boost is still behind the specified boost. my boost creeps in soo slow and i dont hit full boost til 3k rpm...2nd gear is the same way, i dont see full boost until 3k rpm


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i'm not looking at boost... i just wanna see your startup and cold stuff to check out the bigging. boost will never ever be 100% the same as requested but for a split second here and there


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aseepuseg7JMdFhCdXpraWRNdVBwR2prR3dCbG5HYWc&hl=en#gid=0

https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=en&key=tSDluiJIiMJHKGOx_5YpG4w&hl=en#gid=0

these are 3rd gear pull from 2k rpm


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

first start 
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aseepuseg7JMdHZKTUdCT2NicnlaeFZlcFl4dHd3a3c&hl=ja#

warmed up
https://spreadsheets0.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=en&key=thzmauw4p64plW2N0GssdvQ&hl=en#gid=0

"really warmed up"
https://spreadsheets1.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=en&key=tOkRcAJMvw9T22W0BwH11pQ&hl=en#gid=0


are these links working? i shared them to public, i noticed someone emailed me asking to share them or something? i dunno im new to the google docs


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, I'M looking at boost. And I'd say >18psi at only ~60% wastegate duty cycle is pretty good. You must be running a big exhaust to have the turbo working so lightly.

And 1bar of boost by 2700rpm is pretty respectable as well. I don't expect you'd be able to improve on that much.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

agreed..your fuel and boost are excellent.


you have very high EGT's and timing is meow..the bogging at cold start up could be too much fuel perhaps or low timing.

if you can use unisettings with malone..these can be fixed


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Vegeta Gti said:


> agreed..your fuel and boost are excellent.
> 
> 
> you have very high EGT's and timing is meow..the bogging at cold start up could be too much fuel perhaps or low timing.
> ...


when the car is warmed up is runs good...holds boost to redline..i just wish it pulled a little harder, Mark said he can ramp it up, he just wants to get the bogging figured out

as for unisettings...ive never messed with it before, but wouldnt that defeat the purpose of buying a stage 3 custom tune? haha

my exhaust is a 3" DP with high flow cat and 2.5 cat back, are my EGT's dangerously high? if i have to ill upgrade to a frontmount but i prefer not to


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

he will never be able to constantly provide you with changes for the everday and over time variables of the cars life....so i'm not sure how that defeats the purpose.

plus..you can always tweak for little changes and improvements...my recent updates from uni are awesome..but once the ecu is here an di can apply it to my particular settings her ein my car day to day..i can tweak and change to make the most of it...this is how it works.

the logs you send him today won't be anything like logs you send him in july...and with that he would tweak accordingly..so you wnna constantly rely on him for these changes or learn about the car and tweak for yourself. or else you'll be waiting forever...all the time


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Vegeta Gti said:


> he will never be able to constantly provide you with changes for the everday and over time variables of the cars life....so i'm not sure how that defeats the purpose.
> 
> plus..you can always tweak for little changes and improvements...my recent updates from uni are awesome..but once the ecu is here an di can apply it to my particular settings her ein my car day to day..i can tweak and change to make the most of it...this is how it works.
> 
> the logs you send him today won't be anything like logs you send him in july...and with that he would tweak accordingly..so you wnna constantly rely on him for these changes or learn about the car and tweak for yourself. or else you'll be waiting forever...all the time


thats why i bought a loader...to get files via email and yes thats why i spent a lot of money for a "custom tune" to have him do it all, i just gotta be patient, but its killin me!


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

just tried using unisettings and when i try to read from ecu it says unable to read from ecu.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

did you have vcds open and change it to dont boot in intelligent mode? did you assign your vagcom cable to unisettings?

i paid what..$650 for my uni the first time..and my update wa slike $100 with total shipping...pretty much just shipping lol cos they rule


soooooo....all said and done.i have $750 in two flashes including shipping my ecu each time...


while you wait your unsatsified and wondering whats going on, so if you learn and apply and continue to learn. you won't be in this situation. i am all for increasing knowledge and understanding.


search for the unisettings thread..so you can see pic by pic how to setup your stuff to use it.

and remember..when you do a tweak, you have to cycle the key for about 30 seconds and while doin so clear unisettigns to ensure the tweaks took when you re-read it..


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> ... you have very high EGT's and timing is meow..





Downeywu said:


> my exhaust is a 3" DP with high flow cat and 2.5 cat back, are my EGT's dangerously high? if i have to ill upgrade to a frontmount but i prefer not to


I don't see a measuring block for EGTs in any of the above. Are you referring to the INTAKE AIR temperatures being recorded on block 118?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

yeah sorry i meant IAT..lol my bad lol
yeah i dont know which is why i wanted to be sure he knew how to use unisettings first, that wa in case it's user error on that subject


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, looking through all the logs here's what I see:

Blocks 003 and 020 = decent amount of timing advance with no signs of the ecu pulling any out
Blocks 118 and 115 = nice boost response, great pressure at top end on modest duty cycles
Blocks 033 and 032 = fueling looks good and on the money

Downey, on paper your performance looks really solid. I think the Malone tune is coming along really well on that car. :thumbup:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

slappy_dunbar said:


> Well, looking through all the logs here's what I see:
> 
> Blocks 003 and 020 = decent amount of timing advance with no signs of the ecu pulling any out
> Blocks 118 and 115 = nice boost response, great pressure at top end on modest duty cycles
> ...


hey Doug thanks for looking through the logs, i noticed that my g/s for my intake air seem low only 160? i checked one of my old logs and noticed as high as 197... Mark emailed me lastnight that he was writing a new file for the new BEA MAF, so ill post up new logs in about 1-2 weeks

the most recent logs i have posted are with the first base file he has sent me...which is pretty good, just the first 5-10 minutes of warming up is rough


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

You know, I started off thinking I could just re-scale that 160g/s. Because no way 160g/s is accurate at 18psi. Plus you're running a TT225 sensor. But then I realized this has to be some alchemy on Mark's part. He's re-jiggered your airflow maps in a way I can't figure. But honestly, I think he's just a couple twists of a few knobs and you'll be dialed. Let's wait to see what he can do when he's back next week. :beer:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

still waiting to have a smooth running car......does anyone else have a Malone tune for the FT?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

you can unisettings a Malone tune, I do it all the time =)


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

update....

Mark has been sending me files, but they arent getting my cold start/idle smooth just yet. car is boggy for about 5-7 minutes. once warmed up the car drives great, but it still doesnt pull that hard....anyone willing to take a gander at some logs?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Does anyone have a Malone tune with 440 injectors and their car runs smooth? if so which engine code MAF are ya running?


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> update....
> 
> Mark has been sending me files, but they arent getting my cold start/idle smooth just yet. car is boggy for about 5-7 minutes. once warmed up the car drives great, but it still doesnt pull that hard....anyone willing to take a gander at some logs?


That sounds like what I had to deal with E85 in the north east winter. Unisetting fuel enrichments on start up and warm up are your friends( channel 4 and 5 ). In your case I'm guessing that they need to be adjusted taking into account the bigger than stock injectors! :beer:


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> hey Doug thanks for looking through the logs, i noticed that my g/s for my intake air seem low only 160? i checked one of my old logs and noticed as high as 197... Mark emailed me lastnight that he was writing a new file for the new BEA MAF, so ill post up new logs in about 1-2 weeks
> 
> the most recent logs i have posted are with the first base file he has sent me...which is pretty good, just the first 5-10 minutes of warming up is rough


Did you change MAF housing from the 197 g/s to the 160 g/s?
A maf housing with a bigger cross sectional diameter will give a lower reading because it's only a scaled % of what the sensor was calibrated for(smaller cross section).


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Malone specifies a complete TT225 sensor/housing. And you're right: the voltage for airflow reported by that component is different from a stock 1.8T sensor's scaling. But I suspect Mark is ALSO changing the ecu lookup tables so the voltages correlate to different g/s measures. It's pretty opaque stuff.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Malone specifies a complete TT225 sensor/housing. And you're right: the voltage for airflow reported by that component is different from a stock 1.8T sensor's scaling. But I suspect Mark is ALSO changing the ecu lookup tables so the voltages correlate to different g/s measures. It's pretty opaque stuff.


Very interesting, I haven't seen a Malone flash firsthand.
I'd love the see the n75 duty cycle profile in his files and compare it to the usual players(Uni, revo, APR, GIAC). I have yet to see a file that impresses me at onset for the 1.8t, they are all numbed down, maybe Malone is bolder and brought some fun down low!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

madmax199 said:


> I have yet to see a file that impresses me at onset for the 1.8t, they are all numbed down, maybe Malone is bolder and brought some fun down low!


These files are all written for stock engine internals, so they deliberately avoid high boost pressure at onset. You're an unusual case: a built motor running a "small" turbo. So you can take full advantage of that turbo's ability to boost 30psi while the engine is spinning relatively slowly.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

The more I drive mine, it seems that it hits harder than I anticipated. Cold starts need a warm up period (even when it's warm out) but the thing stomps from 2300rpm. It will shred the tires. And this is just a base tune. I have a small boost leak, once I get that fixed.I'll do some logs, and post them. I am impressed thus far with the tune. Can't wait to get it even tighter....
On another note, he seems to have good control on spike as well. It spikes 17 or 18, then settles to 16 all the way out, and holds to 7k.
Mind you, this is all with a boost leak.... 
Sent from my PG06100


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> These files are all written for stock engine internals, so they deliberately avoid high boost pressure at onset. You're an unusual case: a built motor running a "small" turbo. So you can take full advantage of that turbo's ability to boost 30psi while the engine is spinning relatively slowly.


Touche, but do they really have to water down the car's identity that much? 

To me, it makes no sense to tune for a small fast spooling turbo and make it behave like that. You and I both know that those tune basically keep the car like stock, with no character, until it's way late and they have past the region that they could really shine.

I feel that all stockish based tunes, including the ones for your hybrid, are in CYA (cover your ass) mode but again I'm only an odd ball that has pushed the rods until there limit was found. One thing I'm sure is that they are nowhere near the limit of the rods and leaving way too much on the table.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, the "old" Unitronic Stage 2+ is the raciest boost profile I've seen. After running it on the dyno I felt it was allowing too much torque output, which they've addressed in the newer 440cc variant. And I think Mark is simply doing the same thing: protecting car owners from dangerously high power output while the turbo is initially matching boost request. 

You don't think torque like this is a bit risky? (I ask with the knowledge that the test car is still racing around undamaged with this performance curve)


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## Sku96 (Nov 13, 2007)

What were the supporting mods to that dyno? 

Thanks!


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Well, the "old" Unitronic Stage 2+ is the raciest boost profile I've seen. After running it on the dyno I felt it was allowing too much torque output, which they've addressed in the newer 440cc variant. And I think Mark is simply doing the same thing: protecting car owners from dangerously high power output while the turbo is initially matching boost request.
> 
> You don't think torque like this is a bit risky? (I ask with the knowledge that the test car is still racing around undamaged with this performance curve)


Granted that I had the OE 20 mm wrist pin rods, that kind of torque is far from where it becomes dangerous. That dyno graph is probably from Ed's dyno and I can't judge rpm since the other axis is speed but torque seems very gradual still. I ran my car for a long time with water injection only(before the E85 plunge) and at 28+ psi and a lot more torque sooner than that graph, everything was as safe as it's going to get. I only bent the OEM rods after E85, 360 awtq very early and a tune that wasn't optimized. I'm not saying for the tuners to just let it all hang out but totally killing the power down low is cheating the customer from what they are paying for and expecting from their cars (just my personal opinion).


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

I am not a tuner. I understand on a base level how all this works. I am intelligent enough that once explained to me, I can comprehend most of it. I think that Mark doesn't necessarily play safe mode, but does what he does in the name of building to an end result. Small increments upwards. My car feels faster and more powerful with a base file than I ever could have expected from a final tune. There are some kinks I would like to see ironed out, like Downeyvw said. The cold start stumble isn't a lot of fun, but hey I can let it run until it is at operating temp, NBD. 

That being said, I have a stumble right when the boost starts to hit. It wants to fall on it's face for about 300rpms, from around 2200 to 2500, just before boost gets real. My gauge fluctuates, spikes, then drops, then spikes again. Would cranking a turn on the wastegate help? I know that they don't come preset, and that there is some fine tuning to get it right. I would like to see if it is in the tune or the hardware. Any input would be appreciated. If I run it easy into the boost, it still stumbles but it isn't nearly as noticeable. WOT, it doesn't do it, just partial throttle acceleration. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Don't fiddle with the hardware while Mark is dialing the software. Let him tune the car -- if he hits a hardware issue he'll tell you...or me.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Don't fiddle with the hardware while Mark is dialing the software. Let him tune the car -- if he hits a hardware issue he'll tell you...or me.


:thumbup:

Sent from my PG06100


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## jon-vw (May 25, 2011)

DO NOT touch the wastegate actuator! I noticed markings on mine which probably indicates that dh pre-calibrates them.


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Well, the "old" Unitronic Stage 2+ is the raciest boost profile I've seen. After running it on the dyno I felt it was allowing too much torque output, which they've addressed in the newer 440cc variant. And I think Mark is simply doing the same thing: protecting car owners from dangerously high power output while the turbo is initially matching boost request.
> 
> You don't think torque like this is a bit risky? (I ask with the knowledge that the test car is still racing around undamaged with this performance curve)



checkdalevels set up is what made me want a FT..Are you saying the 440 GG file dumbs it down a bit on torque? I thought it was to address the lean fueling issue he had since he needed an AUX fuel pump.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The 440cc file is written for the FrankenTurbo. And while the torque value is lowered, overall power is not. It's a more polished and drivable power curve. Look at the shape of the torque delivery.


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

GTIRACER2.0t said:


> checkdalevels set up is what made me want a FT..



*Exactly*.

That graph is approaching the perfect dyno graph for the street. Good torque down low and at least some power up top.
I remember years ago the BT guy use to use the term _*area under the curve*_ to make fun of the non-BT folk. The problem was all the _*area*_ was all the way to the right side of the graph where no street drivers want to live on a daily basis. 

Now, if the graph were about 5-10% higher across the board, I think that would be the perfect street tune for stock internals.

I think 285 ft lbs or so is a realitively safe limit for this early torque on these hybrids if two things happen.
A- the driver doesn't beat on it all day every day.
B- limiting those unique driving events/conditions from time to time where really high engine load is created low in the rpm range that results in cylinder pressure spikes- manual boost control/bleed should help.


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> The 440cc file is written for the FrankenTurbo. And while the torque value is lowered, overall power is not. It's a more polished and drivable power curve. Look at the shape of the torque delivery.


That's less torque than my '04 K03 APR flashed Jetta dyno from years ago. I was getting 260ft lbs on pump gas- daily driven moderately hard for 60k miles. The torque came on quite a bit earlier I believe. And while the HP is significantly higher, there are some highly modified K03/K04's out there not too far below that HP.

While it is a good looking well balanced graph.......Considering the amount of hardware and software being implemented here and the *subsequent cost*-

honestly not very impressive.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

slickfisher said:


> That's less torque than my '04 K03 APR flashed Jetta dyno from years ago. I was getting 260ft lbs on pump gas- daily driven moderately hard for 60k miles. The torque came on quite a bit earlier I believe. And while the HP is significantly higher, there are some highly modified K03/K04's out there not too far below that HP.
> 
> While it is a good looking well balanced graph.......Considering the amount of hardware and software being implemented here and the *subsequent cost*-
> 
> honestly not very impressive.


That has been my exact opinion from the begining and I attempted to make Doug realize it a few times! He has a *great* product in his hands but the software, or lack of it, is killing the results! 

I am pushing over a 100 AWTQ over that 2WD graph with the OEM K04. I know my case is a little odd and extreme due to the facts that I have rods and some advanced supporting mods. My point is that even before E85, on water injection only, my AWD graphs made all the FT ones look patetic and something is wrong with that picture. Doug seriously need to have a tuner lift his skirt up and bring it and stop killing his product so they could cover their ass. As usual it's only my opinion but I don't sugar coat!

Just to set the records straight, I am interested in this because I will be running this turbo at some point. I am not trying to create drama, if anything I always try to help when I can. Maybe when I finally do the FT someone will finally allow this hybrid to stretch its legs!


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> The 440cc file is written for the FrankenTurbo. And while the torque value is lowered, overall power is not. It's a more polished and drivable power curve. Look at the shape of the torque delivery.


Explain the term "Drivable"

Im no expert on the durability of the 1.8t but if 300-350 lbft of torque is the limit of stock rods then why not take advantage of that and make more than 250lbft . 

When considering cost of the FT set up and supporting mods, 1100+ ft, 300 for injectors and install kit, plus supporting exhaust mods and then 500-700.00 software cost...its not that cheap and Im sure all of us who bought or are considering buying the FT want the most we can get for our investment.
Fortunately I had to replace a blown turbo anyway so it made sense cost wise but I would like to see more torque. Needing to make a quick lane change pass in 5th would be nice to not have to down shift:laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Max -- there's no lack of software for the F4T. But what you and slickfisher are finding "lacking" is the performance delivered by that software. In your cases, you would just opt for a custom file that is tailored to your (riskier) preferences. 

I for one think a 260/260 performance curve is terrific. The engine management is doing the job of protecting against excessive torque and also designed to deliver a solid horsepower level at safe fueling mixtures and EGT levels. No hopped-up K03 setup can compare to that.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Max -- there's no lack of software for the F4T. But what you and slickfisher are finding "lacking" is the performance delivered by that software. In your cases, you would just opt for a custom file that is tailored to your (riskier) preferences.
> 
> I for one think a 260/260 performance curve is terrific. The engine management is doing the job of protecting against excessive torque and also designed to deliver a solid horsepower level at safe fueling mixtures and EGT levels. No hopped-up K03 setup can compare to that.


What I was saying Doug is that there's a lack of software that delivers! 

Us "slickfishers" are maybe telling you something that anybody else would, take it for what it is!
Again, you have a kickass product that I entend to run regardless of what software is available - relax, nobody is attacking you!

I am resting my case on all FT threads from now on, that way you'll only hear from people that tell you what you want to hear. However, you could rationalize all you want that a 260/260 is nice power but it's not and BTW none of the FT out there (maybe with the excecption of Steve's) are running EGT or IAT numbers close to what a slickfisher get out his hopped-up OE turbo at psi and timing that your so called tunes can only dream of .:wave:



*Heat soaked hot summer day last year, O timing correction (tell your tooners to keep dreaming)* 


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

madmax199 said:


> However, you could rationalize all you want that a 260/260 is nice power but it's not and BTW none of the FT out there (maybe with the excecption of Steve's) are running EGT or IAT numbers close to what a slickfisher get out his hopped-up OE turbo at psi and timing that your so called tunes can only dream of


Hehe, maybe it's the heat today, but I can't follow you. Which turbo are we even talking about here? F4T or F23?


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

Doug, No worries. 

I respect your efforts- you keep trying.

A 260/260 would be nicer- but your graph says 249tq. Not trying to nitpick.

A 260/280 or 280/280 file that didn't require alot of supporting mods/fueling etc, etc with early tq onset is ideal. Especially when costs now are now approaching BT kit range. 

Interesting that latest graph power fall off mimics exactly a K03 power fall off- just higher on the graph.

I guess after checkdalevel's breakthrough graph at ForceFed, we were all expecting a bit of smoothing out of the file, a solid list of supporting mods to attain it, and most of all repeatability with easily availible software. Aparently it hasn't been repeated. Uni's software is either beta or hard to get from the stories we see. Months pass, now yet another tuner to the rescue with new injector requirements and a so so graph.

Aaahh,

I don't mean to minimalize all the hard work and time and money people are putting out. My hands are swelling up, my knuckles pop and crack with arthritis. My time has passed- I ain't going to do anything. Just going to try keep what I have on the road.

If you can produce 260/260, make it repeatable, reliable, create a kit , and get the costs back down- you've done pretty good. 

Like Max above- I'm going to leave you alone. :beer:


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

slickfisher said:


> Interesting that latest graph power fall off mimics exactly a K03 power fall off- just higher on the graph.
> 
> I guess after checkdalevel's breakthrough graph at ForceFed, we were all expecting a bit of smoothing out of the file, a solid list of supporting mods to attain it, and most of all repeatability with easily availible software. Aparently it hasn't been repeated. Uni's software is either beta or hard to get from the stories we see. Months pass, now yet another tuner to the rescue with new injector requirements and a so so graph.
> 
> ...


Again I agree...Checkdalevels dyno graph is what sold me on the F4t. I thought the Green Giant file was to address a fueling issue he had. His motor is still in one piece. :thumbup:
Can you guys see that if we are spending this much money on something that is not BT, we at least want all we can get. 
I already have green giants now so I dont want to run the file CDL has since its not wriiten for the 440's. Can we get a more agressive file and I dont want to go back and forth on the dyno getting a custom tune as that adds much to the cost of something that started out as very affordable


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## Jmacc (Jul 6, 2011)

GTIRACER2.0t said:


> Again I agree...Checkdalevels dyno graph is what sold me on the F4t. I thought the Green Giant file was to address a fueling issue he had. His motor is still in one piece. :thumbup:
> Can you guys see that if we are spending this much money on something that is not BT, we at least want all we can get.
> I already have green giants now so I dont want to run the file CDL has since its not wriiten for the 440's. Can we get a more agressive file and I dont want to go back and forth on the dyno getting a custom tune as that adds much to the cost of something that started out as very affordable


I agree, I have been looking at this kit for awhile. i understand the tuners need to protect the owners stock internals. However, if we could get a 260/280 file or something very much like that would be awesome. That torque is really what sold me on this setup. 

P.S. I really have never posted here, mainly have been on PW but I have been following this for the better part of two years.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

hmmm... this is an interesting thread with a lot of points.

I havent blown my bottom end but i did torch my clutch getting out of the snow this past winter :banghead:

i have been facing the dilemma on upgrading my tune to the new 440 file.

I prefer not to loose the torque. I have addressed my fueling issue with running the a 3.5bar FPR and in-line pump.

Every body else should run the 440 file. the injector duty cycle was quite high and this is the reason why they now push the 440 file along with its ability to limit the torque which in theory can cause rod damage. 

every one should give malone, uni and slappy some kudos for trying to make a custom flash that is both safe and fast. Those 2 often dont play well with each other


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

checkdalevel said:


> hmmm... this is an interesting thread with a lot of points.
> 
> I havent blown my bottom end but i did torch my clutch getting out of the snow this past winter :banghead:
> 
> ...




:thumbup:

Well said. couldn't agree more.

Sent from my PG06100


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

checkdalevel said:


> I prefer not to loose the torque. I have addressed my fueling issue with running the a 3.5bar FPR and in-line pump.


T -- I haven't forgotten about loaning you a VAG-COM. It's been tied up with a Motoza tune for the last month. Once I've gotten it to you, I'd really like to see how your fuel trims have settled out on that "non-prescribed" 3.5bar fuel system. If you're running well, then i have absolutely no objection to anyone using the older (more aggressive) 380cc Stage 2+.

We should also take a look at your timing values.


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> T -- I haven't forgotten about loaning you a VAG-COM. It's been tied up with a Motoza tune for the last month. Once I've gotten it to you, I'd really like to see how your fuel trims have settled out on that "non-prescribed" 3.5bar fuel system. If you're running well, then i have absolutely no objection to anyone using the older (more aggressive) 380cc Stage 2+.
> 
> We should also take a look at your timing values.


If there is is happy medium between the different tunes that would be interesting. 250ftlb is a little low but maybe 275-280ftlb since CDL's is over 300. Still safe I already have 440's so I'm not going to try to buy TT injectors now and a new fpr and inline pump if I don't have to,


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GTIRACER2.0t said:


> If there is is happy medium between the different tunes that would be interesting. 250ftlb is a little low but maybe 275-280ftlb since CDL's is over 300. Still safe I already have 440's so I'm not going to try to buy TT injectors now and a new fpr and inline pump if I don't have to,


Well, not to muddy the waters here, but I do know that Mike Z. upped the settings a bit on the file after seeing this dyno. In that knowledge, I invoked the 260/260. I reckon that's where JWoody's car would be now if he re-flashed. Actually, he's been tinkering with the timings settings on the original beta file. So he's probably at about that point now.

Which brings up an interesting question to you guys looking for the last full measure: you'd always have the option of manipulating the file in UniSettings, yes? Or.... just go with Malone and tell him you want a rod-busting power curve.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> just go with Malone and tell him you want a rod-busting power curve.


I may be in for this. (at least close to rod busting)


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## Jmacc (Jul 6, 2011)

Ya that would be perfect. Right in that 280 range.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

im also hoping for more power from my FT with Malone tuning  ...i was curious about my IAT, up around 70-75 C* near redline. after the pull it drops down to around 50*. im using a godspeed SMIC, do i need to get a FMIC? and it was also around 80-85 degrees outside


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> im also hoping for more power from my FT with Malone tuning  ...i was curious about my IAT, up around 70-75 C* near redline. after the pull it drops down to around 50*. im using a godspeed SMIC, do i need to get a FMIC? and it was also around 80-85 degrees outside


 I would do something for sure. Either a better IC or WM injection.


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## JWoody (May 17, 2006)

That's still true Doug. Been running +.75 on the timing for the last 8k miles and just put in BR8EIX's per Steve's suggestions at .26 gap. Been running those plugs for 800 miles no issues and logs showed no misfires.

Steve thought with the timing up to +1.5 and these plugs we could be near 270whp. Perhaps lower the boost down a tad too. Need to get back up to NGP for Dyno run to confirm our suspicions.

-J


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

You're running even more advanced timing now, in these temperatures? Nothing beats water/meth. Ray at RAI was right: these small turbos love it.


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## JWoody (May 17, 2006)

No, just +.75 since early May or 8,000 miles. If I were to run on the Dyno again I would do a few runs at +1.5 just to see where she goes. Trying to mimic his process like on the F23.

-J


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

still waiting to have a smooth running car, purchased my tune back in march....i have taught myself great patience....


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## xxsur3shotxx (Sep 24, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> im also hoping for more power from my FT with Malone tuning  ...i was curious about my IAT, up around 70-75 C* near redline. after the pull it drops down to around 50*. im using a godspeed SMIC, do i need to get a FMIC? and it was also around 80-85 degrees outside


that's 167*F. 

yes, time for a front mount.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ definitely


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

I has a front mount and the IATS are still super high. Get WMI it will do more....


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

hatetolovemydub said:


> I has a front mount and the IATS are still super high. Get WMI it will do more....


those temps were during the heat of the day in the summer, could i use w/m with a godspeed SMIC? i was thinking about upgrading to a beefy FMIC, not sure if too big is too much for the FT?

i havent been driving my car that much cause of the cold start issue, i did however take it for a spin the other night when it was cool...the car was haulin ass!  i cant wait till Mark tweaks my file for even more power!


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Downeywu said:


> those temps were during the heat of the day in the summer, could i use w/m with a godspeed SMIC? i was thinking about upgrading to a beefy FMIC, not sure if too big is too much for the FT?


just get a FMIC. dont buy a 1000HP core and you will be fine :screwy:


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## xtremvw3 (Jun 10, 2011)

nobody ever tought of running this turbo on maestro 7 from Eurodyne and call it a day since you have full control over every single parameter?? with no delays?


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

xtremvw3 said:


> nobody ever tought of running this turbo on maestro 7 from Eurodyne and call it a day since you have full control over every single parameter?? with no delays?


no, because thats not the easy way out. it requires someone with atleast 1/2 a functioning brain, that can tune the car, to tune the car. that also requires more money.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

wow, Mark Malone raised his price to $1400 for the FT file! 

http://malonetuning.com/?page_id=243


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Downeywu said:


> wow, Mark Malone raised his price to $1400 for the FT file!
> 
> http://malonetuning.com/?page_id=243


 WHAT THE FU*K. First a $1300 godspeed fmic kit. now a $1400 ko4 tune? :screwy: im bouta get off the internet for a while :banghead: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GODS...ries&fits=Make:Volkswagen&hash=item4aac9d7785


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)




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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

well its 1400 plus a loader, so 1650? i also purchased my tune back in the end of March, ive been waiting quite a while so far... this woulda been a disaster if i didnt have my own loader...my car runs pretty good warmed up, just the first 5 minutes it runs like crap, im happy i bought my tune when i did!


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

erevlydeux said:


> Probably because he's tired of everyone thinking they're gonna get 300whp, or more, with their $1200 FT kit... having customers complain about it and having to make endless tweaks for people.
> 
> I wouldn't blame him, to be honest. Look at how much trouble people have had so far getting things tuned right... there are tons of new variables and without a car to develop a rock-solid tune on... Mark is making endless tweaks to everyone's file as they have slightly differing setups here and there.
> 
> Add up the cost of your choice of tuning suite: Maestro, WinOLS, etc... add in the cost in labor of having tweaks to the files and potentially procuring your own setup to test things with... $1400 seems cheap to me for having to go through the process of making a tweak, waiting forever, getting feedback logs, making more tweaks, etc etc.


 I'm sorry but I totally disagree with this. There is nothing revolutionary about a k04 or ANY of its variants. There have been good k04 files (k04,k04-2x,e05-b) out for 10 years. There are not "new variables" to me its all the ability of the tuner; or rather lack there of.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

I would prolly buy lugtronic if i was gonna spend that much :screwy:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

erevlydeux said:


> Who said **** about being revolutionary? I only said that remotely tuning is a pain in the ass. Point me to any tuning company on here that takes logs and gives you back a changed tune that hasn't caught flak. Chris Tapp for Eurodyne? People **** on him and how unresponsively he is and talk **** about how the tunes never quite idle right or how they don't work well enough with bigger TBs or whatever, lol.


 I said revoultionary; meaning something new that would imply the old designed k04 files do not work or are inaqequate. There are not "new variables" the only variables are ones when people can't follow the requested hardware guidlines or install things improperly causing leaks and other issues. 

$1400 seems cheap to you for a custom tuned k04 software? Custom software that shouldn't even need to exist. OH my k04-01 variant flows SOO much air. Paging Kevin Black!!


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

it would of been nice to see a malone tuned car make over 260whp on a dyno. 

to me the price jump reflects the time consumption it has been for him. 

I hope he honors his current customers and gets them a decent tune some time in 2011


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

erevlydeux said:


> I never said it was cheap,





erevlydeux said:


> $1400 seems cheap to me


  My bad. 

$1400 for custom K04 tuning. Yep I'm still laughing. ic:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ :laugh:


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

erevlydeux said:


> You've rode my dick before on numerous threads so I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you're hanging out over there, cross-referencing all my posts for inconsistencies. :laugh:


 Yes I went back and nitpicked all your posts. I had to troll so hard for that quote in the last paragraph 2 posts up.  



erevlydeux said:


> It's a custom tune that, apparently, has been hard for multiple tuners to dial in properly. There is more than enough evidence that this setup is not the easiest to dial in when you have multiple things to juggle: performance, reliability, safety, etc.


 And thats where I disagree. What other tuners? It's not hard to tune for its a k04 hybrid with a profile very similiar to an E05b. Amazing how UNI was able to conjure up a file w/ no in house testing; they couldn't have possible taken an already made k04 file and added mild adjustments. I guess every mk5 2.0T w/ a k04 requires a custom tune to idle, boost and drive right. Most powerful k03 1.8ts--off the shelf software w/ simple Unisettings/lemmiwinks tweeks. I've never once said anything about the cost of remote custom tuning; Malone stated their frustations and thats relfected in their price. I simply stated its a rediculous price for something that shouldn't even be needed. Lets charge an extra $800 to optimize a k04 file to achieve 5HP or a more aggressive boost curve. 



erevlydeux said:


> I have an urging feeling that you have zero experience in why people charge so much for services that involve arbitrary labor where things may take a lot longer than they usually do.


 Thanks for the bussiness lesson Maslow. I'll keep your consulting in mind the next time I'm bidding a multi-million dollar project for the D.O.T. 

I like that you belittle me w/ names and profanity, undermining my intellegence simply on a difference of opinion. Keep up the good work. :wave:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Malone's pricing reflects the time/difficulty for custom tuning CARS, not simply turbos. And the cars in question are aging and variously modified. The turbo is not the issue. It performs consistently; the issue is the inconsistent state of the cars he's tuning.


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## north (Sep 22, 2010)

Pretty sure we are talking about malone not having in-house testing not uni. Uni had a FT test kit early on, at least to my knowledge.


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

checkdalevel said:


> it would of been nice to see a malone tuned car make over 260whp on a dyno.
> 
> to me the price jump reflects the time consumption it has been for him.
> 
> I hope he honors his current customers and gets them a decent tune some time in 2011


 
Couldnt say this any better:laugh::thumbup: 1400.00 lol:facepalm:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

i just read this whole thread. had to take a break from the drama. haha. 
had to grabbing a bit to eat and throw in some chew. 

i orderd the FlashZilla a few weeks back. sent him my stock file and was gone for a week. 
i havnt bugged him about the progress or anything. 
but after reading all this, im kinda concered and worried i went with the wrong tune. 
after reading all the hickups and headaches there hav been. 

i understand its a custom and all, but the testimonials on the Malone website seem to have mis guided me. 
i think he should get on here and add to all of this. 
and there should be a testimonial to the custom tune. 

does anybody have any positive results to this custom tune?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> i just read this whole thread. had to take a break from the drama. haha.
> had to grabbing a bit to eat and throw in some chew.
> 
> i orderd the FlashZilla a few weeks back. sent him my stock file and was gone for a week.
> ...


 
Mark is really busy...i purchased my tune back in the end of March...he is having trouble gettin my cold start/idle figured out.. the first 5 minutes of the car running is rough(misfire,sputter, bog when touching gas) but for the past month he hasnt sent me anything, i have emailed and he told me he has like 8 other people he is also writing tunes for, which have bought their tunes around june...but for some odd reason me buying mine in march doesnt get me to the front of the list :/ .....unless they bought their tune's before mine? 

ive been waiting a while, its fine tho cuz i have a second car to drive and i also purchased a loader...this woulda been hell if i had to rent a loader. 

overall the car is driveable, and pulls pretty good when warmed up, the summer heat is killlin my car though


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

Downeywu said:


> Mark is really busy...i purchased my tune back in the end of March...he is having trouble gettin my cold start/idle figured out.. the first 5 minutes of the car running is rough(misfire,sputter, bog when touching gas) but for the past month he hasnt sent me anything, i have emailed and he told me he has like 8 other people he is also writing tunes for, which have bought their tunes around june...but for some odd reason me buying mine in march doesnt get me to the front of the list :/ .....unless they bought their tune's before mine?
> 
> ive been waiting a while, its fine tho cuz i have a second car to drive and i also purchased a loader...this woulda been hell if i had to rent a loader.
> 
> overall the car is driveable, and pulls pretty good when warmed up, the summer heat is killlin my car though


 Now that really is bad..There is no light at the end of the tunnel for this tuner. He has 8 other cars to tune? He shouldn't have over sold. Who in general has extra cars to drive while a tuner takes his time. It shouldn't be 1400.00. It should 4.00 for all your time you cant drive your car on HIS tune:thumbdown: 
Ill probably go with Uni since they have the best file currently. :thumbup:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

GTIRACER2.0t said:


> Now that really is bad..There is no light at the end of the tunnel for this tunnel. He has 8 other cars to tune? He shouldn't have over sold. Who in general has extra cars to drive while a tuner takes his time. It shouldn't be 1400.00. It should 4.00 for all your time you cant drive you car on HIS tune:thumbdown:
> Ill probably go with Uni since they have the best file currently. :thumbup:


 :thumbup:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

GTIRACER2.0t said:


> Now that really is bad..There is no light at the end of the tunnel for this tuner. He has 8 other cars to tune? He shouldn't have over sold. Who in general has extra cars to drive while a tuner takes his time. It shouldn't be 1400.00. It should 4.00 for all your time you cant drive your car on HIS tune:thumbdown:
> Ill probably go with Uni since they have the best file currently. :thumbup:


 yea the wait is ridiculous. one thing that sucks is, my warranty is gonna be over shortly for my FT and i barely even got to use my car  

could the running rich/misfire/stumble for the first 3-5 minutes ruin my highflow cat? thats the main reason i dont drive my car


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## dick tracy (Aug 23, 2011)

It would be much more easy for a tuner when people use the setup where the tune is made for. All those different setup make it allmost imposible to really make a tune that is close to perfect. 

A good example is unitronic, they require the correct hardware if you want a unitronic tune.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

One word....Unitronic!!! People talked all this jazz in how the Malone tune was going to be the sh_t for the Ft and look at it now:screwy:. This is exactly why you are better going with a company that has spent time working on a file for the set up you plan to run. 1400$ is f_cking ridiculous:laugh:...its almost he overshot the rate so no one would be interested. From what I have read most people aren't happy with the tune as far as power goes and smooth running reliability. Id be pissed if I paid the money and had problems and the guy never got back to me. Making sure the car runs ok and excepts the tune is part of the process too as far as Im concerned. The problem is that people do suck at installing kits and have leaks etc, people run the wrong injector size etc, but there is a lot of people who do a good install and still get the diss from various companies. It isn't always the fault of the installer but they sure do use that as an easy out. I would tell malone that you want your loot back and go elsewhere if he can't communicate with you. It trips me out at how people would even send them their ecu and wait until he gets around to it or whatever. There should be a strict turn around time or he shouldn't be taking on new customers. Its not like people are going to get more power if they wait a month. At this point in time Unitonic is the way to go if you want a tune for the frankenturbo. If there is a dealer in your area you can go there and 20mins later you are happy:thumbup:. There wasn't a dealer in my area and my Ecu went to Florida first and then canada and I still had it back in less then a week. I can tell you from experience that my car runs perfect and I am really happy with the file!! Other then needing a MBC to clip the overboost I cant complain about anything. Car pulls really hard and idles smooth as can be. No hiccups, no surging... nothing. Don't get me wrong, looking at logs that I would change a few things about the tune but from a stand point of a person who just wants to pay the money, get a solid file and not really thing anymore about it you can't go wrong with UNITRONIC!! Plus if you have issues and think its the file and can prove it with logs they will work with you to resolve your issues just like Malone should be doing.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Uni probably is the best out there right now :banghead:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

great. 
now its not looking so promising. 

im starting to think if i should just cut my losses, with the Flash Zilla, and go Unitronic. 
do they make a tune for the FT?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

stg 2+ prolly is what ur lookin for


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> stg 2+ prolly is what ur lookin for


 for me and my FT? 
why would it be 2+ uni. but 3+ with Malone?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

erevlydeux said:


> Sigh... the whole "stage" thing is the dumbest ****ing classification level for car performance parts and software... ever.


 i know brah, i hate it when people ask me what stage my car is. i just want to walk away most of he time :facepalm:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> for me and my FT?
> why would it be 2+ uni. but 3+ with Malone?


 The file you want for the Frankenturbo is the Unitronic Stage 2+ 440cc file. Its not the stage 2+380cc file on Unitronic website. They haven't put the file on the website yet so if you want it you need to call Unitronic and talk to David(ext. 202 or 203) and tell him you want the 440 cc file for the Frankenturbo and he will hook you up:thumbup:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> The file you want for the Frankenturbo is the Unitronic Stage 2+ 440cc file. Its not the stage 2+380cc file on Unitronic website. They haven't put the file on the website yet so if you want it you need to call Unitronic and talk to David(ext. 202 or 203) and tell him you want the 440 cc file for the Frankenturbo and he will hook you up:thumbup:


 ok thanks. 
bout how much $ is this gonna run me? 
and what about other needed support mods?


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> ok thanks.
> bout how much $ is this gonna run me?
> and what about other needed support mods?


 The file from Unitronic is $650. 
Required hardware is: 
Stock MAF sensor in 3" housing 
3bar FPR 
Bosch 440cc "green giant" injectors. 
and you will need a mbc....Boostvalve overboost kit is good:thumbup:


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

erevlydeux said:


> Sigh... the whole "stage" thing is the dumbest ****ing classification level for car performance parts and software... ever.


 +1000 
What's even dumber is people thinking they really need a software change to get their car running properly because of slightly different injectors or a marginally bigger turbo :screwy: 

As far as I know, unless a considerably bigger turbo needing low impedance injectors or very big high impedance injectors (630cc +) that have trouble idling and controlling fueling under high load. One can easily tweak an existing file to accept the hardware changes. 

In case somehow it's been forgotten, but with unisetting you can control: 
-Fuel enrichment at start up and warm up sequence independantly 
-Primary and secondary fuel 
-timing 

What's really left beside that is a different wastegate duty cycle (if needed). I don't know why anyone with a turbo upgrade would want to have the N75 screwing with the wastegate duty profile. A simple mechanical or aftermarket electronic boost control, installed properly guaranty that you can tailor your boost delivery appropriately. BTW, I have looked at several OEM N75 and "race valves" and the adjustable controller screw is never in the same position in two different n75 valves (I'm talking virgin and not molested). I don't know how in the world a generic flash is going to be able to accurately control valves that reacts totally different from each other (no wonder the tuners are having trouble dialing the boost profile on our cars). 

I have told Doug a long time ago that the software issues are going to be dragging his product back but he misinterpreted my intentions, at least everyone is proving me right as time go by.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Twopnt016v said:


> One word....Unitronic!!! People talked all this jazz in how the Malone tune was going to be the sh_t for the Ft and look at it now:screwy:. This is exactly why you are better going with a company that has spent time working on a file for the set up you plan to run. 1400$ is f_cking ridiculous:laugh:...its almost he overshot the rate so no one would be interested. From what I have read most people aren't happy with the tune as far as power goes and smooth running reliability. Id be pissed if I paid the money and had problems and the guy never got back to me. Making sure the car runs ok and excepts the tune is part of the process too as far as Im concerned. The problem is that people do suck at installing kits and have leaks etc, people run the wrong injector size etc, but there is a lot of people who do a good install and still get the diss from various companies. It isn't always the fault of the installer but they sure do use that as an easy out. *I would tell malone that you want your loot back* and go elsewhere if he can't communicate with you. It trips me out at how people would even send them their ecu and wait until he gets around to it or whatever. There should be a strict turn around time or he shouldn't be taking on new customers. Its not like people are going to get more power if they wait a month. At this point in time Unitonic is the way to go if you want a tune for the frankenturbo. If there is a dealer in your area you can go there and 20mins later you are happy:thumbup:. There wasn't a dealer in my area and my Ecu went to Florida first and then canada and I still had it back in less then a week. I can tell you from experience that my car runs perfect and I am really happy with the file!! Other then needing a MBC to clip the overboost I cant complain about anything. Car pulls really hard and idles smooth as can be. No hiccups, no surging... nothing. Don't get me wrong, looking at logs that I would change a few things about the tune but from a stand point of a person who just wants to pay the money, get a solid file and not really thing anymore about it you can't go wrong with UNITRONIC!! Plus if you have issues and think its the file and can prove it with logs they will work with you to resolve your issues just like Malone should be doing.


 i doubt he would give me all my money back...he has written me a couple files and put in work on tweaking it and stuff, i just feel like i have been pushed to the bottom of the list for his priority...if i could get all my money back i prolly would go with Uni 

he does communicate, but like i said hes really busy, i also have a loader so he just sends me the tune via email


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

have the loader too. 
i was hoping it would make things faster by him being able to send me the tune via email. 
but if its taking months to do it. 
its hardly any good. 
i could have gotten a stock ECU for $200. 
and used it while my other 1 was getting tuned.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

madmax199 said:


> +1000
> What's even dumber is people thinking they really need a software change to get their car running properly because of slightly different injectors or a marginally bigger turbo :screwy:
> 
> As far as I know, unless a considerably bigger turbo needing low impedance injectors or very big high impedance injectors (630cc +) that have trouble idling and controlling fueling under high load. One can easily tweak an existing file to accept the hardware changes.
> ...


 I agree man...You shouldn't need a new tune to fix things like idle issues. Most likely the problem is with the car not the tune. Most people do want to just pay the money, forget about it and not have to tweak it. Of coursse there will awlays be people like us that want to improve upon everything:laugh::thumbup:


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## dick tracy (Aug 23, 2011)

Why do u use a MBC to control the boostspikes when it can all be done with the PID controler maps, i.e Kennfeld LDR I-Reglerbegrenzung and KF zur Linearisierung Ladedruck ??


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

dick tracy said:


> Why do u use a MBC to control the boostspikes when it can all be done with the PID controler maps, i.e Kennfeld LDR I-Reglerbegrenzung and KF zur Linearisierung Ladedruck ??


 It is easier for most to get an MBC vs messing with the PID maps. Plus even messing with the PID it will be very difficult to control the boost spikes that you get with these frisky hybrid turbos. Bent rods are a result of these high boost spikes at low rpm so if you get a mbc it will work when the n75 will be too slow to stop the spike.


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

plain and simple is Malone has moved on to the 2.0T 

his Out of the box tune for the k03 was a good tune... asking him to do any custom work is a nightmare... he takes entirely too long to get back, he blames all problems on hardware and the aging engine(yet when I swap back to the first tune everything runs great but I go to a 21PSI tune from him and now my FPR,MAF,N75 are broken and I must have a boost leak... amazing I must of broke of that by flashloading a file...) 

$1400 is ****ing retarded for a FT tune... MOST people go with FT because it's price... making the tune that same price as the ****ing hardware kit is stupid... at that point just get a 50 trim kit 

I honestly regret trying to "save" money by keeping my narrowband ecu and believe someone could remote tune a car by e-mail to the specification mark said he could. 

Honestly for the FT you have 3 choices... GIAC -02x file, Uni, or if you have the ability and time to learn maestro go with maestro7 

If I wasn't building a stroked GT3071r engine I would love to tune a FT on my car with Maestro... messing with PIDs and the rest of maestro isn't as hard as people make it out to be if you just go slowly and take notes of what changes when you change things.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> have the loader too.
> i was hoping it would make things faster by him being able to send me the tune via email.
> but if its taking months to do it.
> its hardly any good.
> ...


 when did you purchase your tune from Mark? i also purchased a loader hoping it would speed up the process, but that didnt turn out as planned haha. ive been waiting 5 months+


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> when did you purchase your tune from Mark? i also purchased a loader hoping it would speed up the process, but that didnt turn out as planned haha. ive been waiting 5 months+


i havnt paid him for a the Tune yet.
i kinda thinkin of cutting my losses with the FlashZilla and going Uni.
you think he'll let me return the Flash Zilla and refund me the $250?


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

doubt it but I do support going with uni for your frankenturbo needs... you can still tweak a uni file with unisettings if you need too which i doubt you will very much.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

fml


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> fml


well atleast your in the hole for 250 and not 800+ like me :/, im sure Mark will finish my tune....but it could be the year 2012 by the time i get it


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> well atleast your in the hole for 250 and not 800+ like me :/, im sure Mark will finish my tune....but it could be the year 2012 by the time i get it


still its dissapointing.

2012. hahaha.
good luck.


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> well atleast your in the hole for 250 and not 800+ like me :/, im sure Mark will finish my tune....but it could be the year 2012 by the time i get it


Hi Downey,

It won't take that long, but I feel your pain. I have too many customers pending and I stopped accepting new ones (particularly all 1.8Ts with BT) so I can finish tuning the existing ones (including you) as quickly as possible. 

We are adjusting our tune prices (e.g. ~$1400 for BT) to reflect the demand and to slow down the pace. That way we can catch up and ensure fast turnaround times. 

Last week I spent 15+ hours on a Passat 1.8T with F4 and it runs well. Yesterday I started tuning an Audi 225TTQ with F23 (sponsored SCCA track car) and it runs smooth, just needs a little tweaking so it runs perfect. These clients placed their orders before you did. There are only three more Frankenturbo clients to finish before you, so it won't be too long  

Once we're caught up in a month or two, we will ensure _fast_ turnaround times for every 1.8T client. I understand that the current wait time is completely unacceptable.

If you want to talk about your order, please e-mail me.

Cheers,
Mark


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

I think this tells everyone that you shouldn't buy a Malone tune for the FT until he gets a good tune sorted out. I understand this process and that it takes time but if customers cant get the car tuned then there is no reason for them to purchase a Malone tune at this point. You can easily purchase a tune from Unitronic and be having fun in no time:thumbup:. I am in no way trying to knock a Malone tune but if it cant it done in a timely fashion then it doesn't even matter how good it may.. or may not be. I also think that trying to charge $1400 is crazy no matter how you try to spin it. $1400 for a big turbo tune maybe but the FT is hardly a big turbo.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

erevlydeux said:


> It's $1400 to discourage a huge overflow of clients which in turn slows down the business in general and has people coming on here making posts like the ones above.
> 
> Reading is good. :grin:


Yeah I got his point. You clearly missed mine. How many other companies have a way overpriced tune on their website to deter people from wanting to buy it because they can't keep up with the demand???

I rest my case :grin:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Twopnt016v said:


> Yeah I got his point. You clearly missed mine. How many other companies have a way overpriced tune on their website to deter people from wanting to buy it because they can't keep up with the demand???
> 
> I rest my case :grin:


cause other companies have a team? i believe Mark is a one man show?


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> cause other companies have a team? i believe Mark is a one man show?


Thats fine..I respect that 100%:thumbup: but if you don't want to be bugged about it or can't keep up with the work flow then don't advertise it on your website. You could easily have all your base tunes on the website and say big turbo or other tunes are on a case by case basis, email for further information or to get your name on the list. This is just my opinion from a business and customer stand point. What happens when someone bucks up any pays $1400 for the tune and he doesn't have time for that customer and they want there tune? Think about it...that customer paid about twice what you did...


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> cause other companies have a team? i believe Mark is a one man show?


i thought he was too but read his post.



[email protected] said:


> We are adjusting our tune prices (e.g. ~$1400 for BT) to reflect the demand and to slow down the pace. That way we can catch up and ensure fast turnaround times.
> 
> Once we're caught up in a month or two, we will ensure _fast_ turnaround times for every 1.8T client. I understand that the current wait time is completely unacceptable.
> 
> ...


he said "we" 4 times.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> Thats fine..I respect that 100%:thumbup: but if you don't want to be bugged about it or can't keep up with the work flow then don't advertise it on your website. You could easily have all your base tunes on the website and say big turbo or other tunes are on a case by case basis, email for further information or to get your name on the list. This is just my opinion from a business and customer stand point. What happens when someone bucks up any pays $1400 for the tune and he doesn't have time for that customer and they want there tune? Think about it...that customer paid about twice what you did...


good point. if hes simply over loaded. then dont offer it. i would be effin pissed if i paid twice as much and didnt get it any faster.

$1400!?!? he emailed me a few weeks ago saying it was going up to $800. i believe.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

just double checked my email. he said $799.

and the FT F4h isnt a BT. why is he charging a tune for it as such?


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

I should clarify that we are still not accepting new customers (regardless of price) until all current customers are tuned with full satisfaction. It will be approximately 3-4 weeks. Results/feedback will be posted after completion, which is what everyone wants to see 

Following that, fewer customers will be taken on each time so they can be served fairly and in much more reasonable time. I want to emphasize quality over quantity. 

So far every single completed customer who had other popular brand tunes are happy with my work. Their most popular comment is how much smoother my tune feels, and occasionally the 0-60MPH times are quicker without adding boost.

Patience for now will be greatly appreciated - data will come and there is no need for more speculation.


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## Jmacc (Jul 6, 2011)

I am just wondering is it necessary to buy the flashzilla or can you borrow one for the time it takes to get the car tuned? TIA


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

There are several rental FlashZilla loaders. They are unlocked units that normally cost $1300 each and they can tune an unlimited number of cars. It is the same product that some of our dealers use.

There are over 30 people on the wait list for these rentals. There is no deposit required, we simply notify the next person on the list when a rental unit will be available shortly. Send an e-mail to [email protected] if you want more details. As you've probably read in this thread, we're not quite ready to take on more customers for a little while.

Cheers,
Mark


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> So far every single completed customer who had other popular brand tunes are happy with my work. Their most popular comment is how much smoother my tune feels, and occasionally the 0-60MPH times are quicker without adding boost.


who are these customers?

im sure i speak for more than myself, but i would like hear from them 1st hand on what they think.


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

There are a few Vortexers here who may chime in. 

A thread about WMI and comparing against a different tuner:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...lingmist-Stage-1-water-methanol-injection-kit

Also, approx. four testimonials here and a couple of them compare against different tuners (you may need to refresh the page to view additional testimonials.. just search for "1.8t" keyword): http://malonetuning.com/?page_id=1450

One of my new dealers is a long-time reseller of a different tune. This is the exact message that they sent me yesterday about an Audi 1.8T Wagon with upgraded injectors, full exhaust, FMIC, etc. (I know, it doesn't look authentic if it's coming from my post, but take it for what it's worth):


> It's very smooth across the whole RPM range. Much smoother than Revo and there's no jerking between accelerating and gear changes. Much nicer but it could use more boost.


It shouldn't be too long for Frankenturbo-specific data and feedback to be released. In order to be as unbiased as possible, I'll let the customers speak for themselves (not through me or my website) - stay tuned


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> This is the exact message that they sent me yesterday about an Audi 1.8T Wagon with upgraded injectors, full exhaust, FMIC, etc.


but theres no F4h Franken Turbo. so it doesnt really contribute here.

opcorn:


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

I would much rather support a guy like Mark and have to wait for a good tune than throw money at a gigantic corporation like Unitronic. (think walmart)


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

hatetolovemydub said:


> I would much rather support a guy like Mark and have to wait for a good tune than throw money at a gigantic corporation like Unitronic. (think walmart)



Hmmm Uni used to be small too. Success got them to where they are. Ill take proven performance any day:thumbup:


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

In my eyes Malone tuning is a lot more proven than Unitronic. I didn't see a single complaint yet on a finished Malone tune AND they take each customer separately where Unitronic loads you up with a generic tune they made on some engine bench in Canada in controller environment.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

hatetolovemydub said:


> I would much rather support a guy like Mark and have to wait for a good tune than throw money at a gigantic corporation like Unitronic. (think walmart)


Guess you don't want your car tuned any time in the next couple of years...





GTIRACER2.0t said:


> Hmmm Uni used to be small too. Success got them to where they are. Ill take proven performance any day:thumbup:


This:thumbup::thumbup:



mescaline said:


> In my eyes Malone tuning is a lot more proven than Unitronic. I didn't see a single complaint yet on a finished Malone tune AND they take each customer separately where Unitronic loads you up with a generic tune they made on some engine bench in Canada in controller environment.


Other then the complaints here? I've seen many people say the Malone tune feels weak. No one has dyno a Malone tune that is making the power that the uni file does.
And lets just skip the talk about how Malone tune is better when clearly no one can get a Malone tune or at least not in a timely fashion....


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

I have Malone tune on 3 cars right now. Passat 1.8T, Passat TDI 130hp and a Mercedes E320 CDI. All working VERY good and Passat 1.8T is pulling very hard with very consistent power.

Malone tunes are a lot like APR tunes. Moderate boost but consistent and very wide power range. I never experienced 1.8T on stock turbo that pulls so hard all the way to the redline. Other tuners raise boost too much and there is an explosion of torque down low which causes stock IC to overheat or something and they become very weak in higher rpm range.

Complaints are usually from customers with unfinished tunes. The only bad thing about this is that Mark is too busy and you won't get customer support that fast but once you do it's from the person that makes your tunes. You get first hand info and help.


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

mescaline said:


> Other tuners raise boost too much and there is an explosion of torque down low which causes stock IC to overheat or something and they become very weak in higher rpm range.


This is correct. For instance in a 2002 Audi 1.8T two weeks ago, if I set max. 260Nm torque it will easily reach 220HP. If I set 320Nm torque it'll feel incredibly strong off the line (just like my diesel tunes), but it will not reach more than 205HP even in cold winter. This is due to heat soak in the IC. I have done both high HP and high torque focused tunes for customers depending on precisely what they want. The *majority* of my customers said that my tunes feel stronger than competitors. Not strong enough? I can make it stronger if you're willing to allow more boost, etc. If there are potential reliability concerns with adding much more power, then I will let you know first.

I re-tuned an Audi 1.8T Quattro with K04 turbo and Unitronic. The customer was happier with not only how much smoother the car felt, the fact that he has less soot on his rear bumper, but also how much stronger the tune felt. His 0-60MPH is now 0.5 seconds quicker according to VCDS. Best of all, his boost was never increased. It's common for tuners to jack up boost in a desperate attempt to make it faster than competitors, but that's not always necessary and it may decrease overall engine longevity.

*I also tuned an Unitronic Dealer's 1.8T* in Mexico with a *GT2871R turbo*. Here's an exact copy & paste of his quote:



> let me tell u that your base map works much better than the unitronic final map


Despite the fact that his tune is *not finished*, he is already happier with it. So far *I may have only re-tuned two Unitronic 1.8Ts*. There are no dynos that compare against competing tunes yet, but they should surface eventually.

I can say with confidence that I'm not worried about competition.

Some of you guys can be pretty hash on the newcomers, demanding every bit information right now  I have not been around as long as Revo, GIAC, APR, Unitronic, etc. Patience please! Data will come.


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

mescaline said:


> *Complaints are usually from customers with unfinished tunes*. The only bad thing about this is that Mark is too busy and you won't get customer support that fast but once you do it's from the person that makes your tunes. You get first hand info and help.


That is precisely what the problem is and I am working my butt off to address it. Once the currently waiting customers are complete and happy, I will not be taking on too many customers simultaneously again. Thus everyone will be served quickly  Everyone will still get 100% custom tunes, which always work better than generic tunes. There is a vast difference between each 1.8T with upgraded turbos and I cannot see generic tunes working optimally every time.



Twopnt016v said:


> when clearly no one can get a Malone tune or at least not in a timely fashion....


With all due respect, this has already been address several times in this thread. There is no need to repeat it. I am working 20+ hours a day for the waiting customers. Working Saturday and Sunday too. After that I will accept only few customers at a time so no one will be left hanging again.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> This is correct. For instance in a 2002 Audi 1.8T two weeks ago, if I set max. 260Nm torque it will easily reach 220HP. If I set 320Nm torque it'll feel incredibly strong off the line (just like my diesel tunes), but it will not reach more than 205HP even in cold winter. This is due to heat soak in the IC. I have done both high HP and high torque focused tunes for customers depending on precisely what they want. The *majority* of my customers said that my tunes feel stronger than competitors. Not strong enough? I can make it stronger if you're willing to allow more boost, etc. If there are potential reliability concerns with adding more power first, I will let you know first.
> 
> I re-tuned an Audi 1.8T Quattro with K04 turbo and Unitronic. The customer was happier with not only how much smoother the car felt, the fact that he now has less soot on his rear bumper, but also how much stronger the tune felt. His 0-60MPH is now 0.5 seconds quicker according to VCDS. Best of all, his boost was never increased. It's common for tuners to jack up boost in a desperate attempt to make it faster than competitors, but that's not always necessary and it may decrease overall engine longevity.
> 
> ...


Just keep plugging away. You seem like a good guy and you'll come through I'm sure. I bet if you could get your hands on a frankenturbo you could come up with a kickass frankentune in a hard working weekend. Maybe you should take a plane ticket out to a customer with a solidly built car and make it happen.  Set it up with a shop for some dyno time and get'er'done (as a wise man once said).

Oh, and as is my custom, I'll go back and make a small correction to your last post:



> I can say without confidence that I'm not worried about competition.


SHOULD BE

"I can say with confidence that I'm not worried about competition."


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

groggory said:


> Oh, and as is my custom, I'll go back and make a small correction to your last post:


Oh, jeez! Hilarious typo, thanks for the heads up


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Twopnt016v said:


> Guess you don't want your car tuned any time in the next couple of years...


Ummm, I have already gotten 4 tunes from Mark, 3 of which were without logs for him to build from. I am patient. I have confidence in his ability completely. He has always answered every question asked, (even the dumb ones) My car has good power right now. It isn't perfect, but every tune has been better than the previous. 

And like I said before... I don't want a wal-mart tune. I like that I can speak directly with the guy who writes the flash for my car. And I am a huge fan of supporting the little guy. And for the fact that down the road, I will be able to have him adjust if things aren't just right. 

This thread right here is why this place is such a joke sometimes. If you aren't one of the cool kids, with the latest and greatest big turbo and matching uni file you aren't cool. Eff that. If you want a uni tune, buy one. I am completely happy with my choice.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

hatetolovemydub said:


> Ummm, I have already gotten 4 tunes from Mark, 3 of which were without logs for him to build from. I am patient. I have confidence in his ability completely. He has always answered every question asked, (even the dumb ones) My car has good power right now. It isn't perfect, but every tune has been better than the previous.
> 
> And like I said before... I don't want a wal-mart tune. I like that I can speak directly with the guy who writes the flash for my car. And I am a huge fan of supporting the little guy. And for the fact that down the road, I will be able to have him adjust if things aren't just right.
> 
> This thread right here is why this place is such a joke sometimes. If you aren't one of the cool kids, with the latest and greatest big turbo and matching uni file you aren't cool. Eff that. If you want a uni tune, buy one. I am completely happy with my choice.


this is what i was lookoing for. a 1st hand review from a Malone Tune customer.
this makes me feel a little better now, that my tune is in good hands.

i agree with you on helping the little company over the Wal-Mart, Uni, brands.
but i still dont like the idea of waiting 4+ months for a tune.
i understand that it is a custom tune and that it takes time to make 1 work right.

but with this custom tune, will it needed to be adjusted with the change of seasons?
from a cold 20-30F to blistering 110F.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that once he gets it dialed, he can give you a winter and summer mode. There are two slots for tunes on the flashzilla. I may be wrong, I have never broached the subject with Mark. I know that the tune I have now isn't super when it is hot, but absolutely rips when we have a cold morning. Like hard to not spin the tires.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

your testimony is the type im looking for. thanks.
iirc, i believe the FlashZilla has 3 modes.
stock
mod1
mod2.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> your testimony is the type im looking for. thanks.
> iirc, i believe the FlashZilla has 3 modes.
> stock
> mod1
> mod2.


:thumbup: Yup, like I said, two tunes.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

ok. thats cool.

if you had to start over with selecting a tune.
would you go with Malone again?


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> With all due respect, this has already been address several times in this thread. There is no need to repeat it. I am working 20+ hours a day for the waiting customers. Working Saturday and Sunday too. After that I will accept only few customers at a time so no one will be left hanging again.


Its cool man, I wan't trying to beat a dead horse just retorting to comments people had made to me.
I respect what you are doing and wish you luck:thumbup::beer:


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Yes. Absolutely. But I'm not impatient. It took a while to get the tune. I will not lie. The initial tune came about 2 days after I sent him the read from the stock ecu. Which was actually before I ever even paid him. He didn't request a payment until like 3 days after I flashed my tune. 


I don't need to justify what I do. Mark is a highly respected tuner, especially in the diesel world (project sipster, anyone?) He knows how to make engines work. Apparently he took on too much work. No big deal. Some people had to wait. Life goes on. Or we cry about it for months on the poortex.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

thats reassuring


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## Cryser (Sep 9, 2009)

but the problem is Mark took on too much and that left a sour feeling in a lot of peoples mouths. Me personally I can't recommend his "custom" work simply because I was left high and dry on a custom tune.

yes I did get in on the bargain price.
yes I wanted more then his canned tune for my narrowband ecu
and yes at the end of the day I swapped to wideband and went maestro and am much happier with it.

The problem though is mark just one day stopped responding to me, he constantly blamed hardware problems on something that was clearly a software issue, this was proven by the fact that I could swap back to his canned tune on 18psi and everything was perfectly fine.. yet went I went to the 21 psi tune I asked for AFR was off and he said it was hardware issues not the tune? I even went as far as getting AFR from a dyno and a wideband controller then never heard a word from him again.

his canned tune for the 1.8T k03 was a great, smooth tune that produced good power and something I preferred over the spike GIAC tune I had before, but getting completely shut out when he couldn't fix a problem with a custom tune has turned me off to malone tuning and any recommendation for his "custom" services...


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ I'd be upset about that too C :facepalm:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

update...

Mark sent me a completely new file, the car runs so much better, still have cold start issues... another issue i have now is hitting 30 psi without the overboost valve in...im going to pick up a new n75 valve and then ill have some logs if ppl are interested

i now however have my mbc installed until the new valve shows up boosting 22-23 psi


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Cryser'
that sucks to hear about your problems with him. and its testimonies like yours that make me kinda weiry about investing more than i hav already.

however, im sure other people hav had issues with other tuners files.

every company will hav a few bad review for 1 reason or another.

maybe he did just decide to ignore you.
and with the 18psi file fine, but the other not, thats what it sounds like.
if so, shame on him. i hope i dont have the same expeirence.

i wish Mark would tell his side of the story.

but untill then, it only makes him look bad.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> update...
> 
> Mark sent me a completely new file, the car runs so much better... only issue i have now is hitting 30 psi without the overboost valve in...im going to pick up a new n75 valve and then ill have some logs if ppl are interested
> 
> i now however have my mbc installed until the new valve shows up boosting 22-23 psi


hell ya, thats what i aan hear.
cant wait to see what kinda numbers you put down.

any predictions?


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

I'm late to this thread (obviously) but I'd like to post a few of my opinions.

I was the first FT customer of Malone's. When I first started working with Mark it was great, I got responses quickly and he answered all my questions. As time has progressed (I started working with him in January) it's been harder to get ahold of him and it took longer to get tunes tweaked. I really do like Mark, and I am confident he will deliver a great tune. My problem is communication. I totally understand being swamped. And from reading this thread I know why now (because he never really told me anything about being swamped except when he came back from vacation). But it takes 30 seconds to respond to an email asking for an update to say "I'm working on it, sorry I'm really swamped but I'll get you taken care of asap". The last email I got from mark was on the 4th of August, when he told me I was a priority and would be taken care of as soon as he got caught up with his local cars. I've emailed him 3 or 4 times now, asking for an update. I've gotten no response from him in over a month, which IMO is unacceptable.

I believe customer service is important, and a simple 30 second email informing me of the situation would have made me happy. I'm not in a hurry, but I don't like being ignore for over a month.

edit: Got a response from him this afternoon.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

did you get a revised tune back?
how your car run now?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> did you get a revised tune back?
> how your car run now?


well, i hate to say it, but my car runs worse on the "revised" tune.....

car never starts on the first attempt(cold start), it stumbles and gargles then stalls...starts on the 2nd ...starts to misfire and drop down to like 500 rpm and i have actually seen it stall...after it drops down to 800-720 rpm, it then starts searching for idle(up and down) if i touch the gas it bogs for a second then picks up....after about 5-7 minutes the bog is gone and the car is about 90% smooth. the boost is also very weird, just doesnt feel all there.


his previous tune he sent me was actually smoother with a better boost response


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

erevlydeux said:


> Err, your last post said the new tune was so much better. Did he send you ANOTHER tune after that or did your car start running progressively worse at start-up?


sorry, that post about the car running smoother is wrong, it only felt smoother because....when he sent me the new file, i loaded it up, d/c the battery for 30 min, TBA, started it waited 5 minutes like he said in the directions, then go ahead and drive....

the fact it sat there idling for 5 minutes is why it was smooth....if i would let my car idle for 5 minutes on my previous file it was smooth...the problem is the first 5 minutes is bad....

so i jumped the gun on thinking the new file was smooth :thumbdown:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

:facepalm:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

oh jeez.

so now what is Mark saying?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> oh jeez.
> 
> so now what is Mark saying?


not sure, he hasnt replied since sept 9th..maybe hes busy tweaking the file?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

hey all, still having the same issues...found out some new info today and i got a question....

is there a difference between bosch 42lb 440cc and bosch 40lb 415cc injectors?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

well Mark just sent me another new tune...corrected for 415cc....hopefully it fixes my cold start issue, ill know in the morning.....

if so...i would like to give a big thanks to CTSturbo for having the wrong info on their website...they even sent me an invoice saying they were 42lb 440cc injectors...but when i called them they said they dont carry such a product and it was a typo, and they actually sent me 40lb 415cc injectors....


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

Downeywu said:


> hey all, still having the same issues...found out some new info today and i got a question....
> 
> is there a difference between bosch 42lb 440cc and bosch 40lb 415cc injectors?


Wait for Slappy to chime in on this.. I think somewhere he said they were the same injector just rated 2 different ways.. Maybe I remember wrong...


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

so there wont be a change? well ill find out in the morning with this new tune


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

what is the part number on the injectors? Is it 0280155968?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> what is the part number on the injectors? Is it 0280155968?


yes thats the part number, but.....

i uploaded Marks new tune for 40Lb 415cc injectors and the car doesnt have cold start issues anymore....no more bogging either.....

so 6 months of headaches all caused by CTSturbo, they had the wrong info on their website and even sent me the wrong info in the invoice...

on the website at the time showed 42Lb 440cc injectors...but they actually sent me 40Lb 415cc injectors

is there much of a power difference from 415cc and 440 cc?


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> yes thats the part number, but.....
> 
> i uploaded Marks new tune for 40Lb 415cc injectors and the car doesnt have cold start issues anymore....no more bogging either.....
> 
> ...



This is good news. I was just chatting with Mark and he said he thought he got you straightened out....


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> i uploaded Marks new tune for 40Lb 415cc injectors and the car doesn't have cold start issues anymore....no more bogging either.....


Jeez, about time! 

As soon I learned that you had 415cc injectors, I replaced your 440cc calibration maps with 415cc and it only took 15 minutes. Glad to see that your cold start is better and the bogging is gone. 

Drive your car for a full day and we'll check your fuel trims, etc. One or two more tweaks and your fuel calibration should be solid. Then we'll finalize with boost/power and you're good to go. 

After I finish this client and a couple other FTs, I will tie up all loose ends including Cryser. I *still* am not accepting any new 1.8T customers with larger turbos and larger injectors, until all all the current/past customers are 100% taken care of. My pace with tuning 1.8Ts has picked up significantly since last week. Instead of the interval time between custom tunes being weeks, it is now 24-48hr.

Cheers,
Mark


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

The Bosch "green giant" injectors are 440cc injectors. They have been tested and flow 440 even though some data says they flow less. At this point it doesn't matter since your getting your issues ironed out. I have the same green 440cc injectors and a 440cc file and my car runs great:thumbup:. I wouldn't be so quick to start blame shifting to CTS.....


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

well the guy at ctsturbo is ignorant as hell...he also hung up on me....


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

well how come the second Mark tweaks a file for 415cc injectors my car runs fine? CTSturbo shouldnt have listed something as 440cc when it really is 415cc

im sure my car would run great on 440's too...but the guy at cts is saying theyre 415cc? so this whole time ive been tellin Mark theyre 440's when they really are 415's.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

is there a price difference between the 2?

if so, ask for some money back.
if they wont do it, threaten to take 'em to court and make a small claim against them for false advertising.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

good to hear that your tune is better now.
how does it feel?


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## [email protected] (Nov 12, 2010)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> good to hear that your tune is better now.
> how does it feel?


It's slow, I'm sure.  The main focus was to iron out the cold start and bogging, etc. Once it's confirmed that these issues are taken care of, it's time to add power!


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> good to hear that your tune is better now.
> how does it feel?


car is smooth...no real power yet...Mark dialed the boost down because of the previous problems....

as for a price difference in injectors...they dont sell 42lb 440 injectors...

so leme get this straight... are bosch 42lb 440 the same as bosch 40lb 415cc....

if there is a difference...then yes they were false advertising...and when i called CTS to try and get some answers...the guy wouldnt even let me talk...then said he had another call and just hung up on me...i dont even want them havin my money...i had problems for 6 months and he cant even give me 2 minutes of talking...people are unreal these days


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Not really an I told you so, but I TOLD you you had hardware issues... lol :banghead::laugh::beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Are these the injectors you have?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Twopnt016v said:


> Are these the injectors you have?


no, but those were the ones i was trying to buy...cts sent me 40lb 415cc, when back in March on their website they had them labeled as 42lb 440 injectors, but really sent me 415's


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## north (Sep 22, 2010)

Yeah, I'm buying my 440's from ECStuning...Properly labeled


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Jeez, about time!
> 
> As soon I learned that you had 415cc injectors, I replaced your 440cc calibration maps with 415cc and it only took 15 minutes. Glad to see that your cold start is better and the bogging is gone.
> 
> ...


Great job Mark :thumbup: it sux u were given critical information that was incorrect :facepalm: 



Downeywu said:


> well the guy at ctsturbo is ignorant as hell...he also hung up on me....


Dayum :facepalm:



hatetolovemydub said:


> Not really an I told you so, but I TOLD you you had hardware issues... lol :banghead::laugh::beer:


LOL

i'm interested to see numbers now that yall have the problems iron'd out


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> i'm interested to see numbers now that yall have the problems iron'd out


X2


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

hatetolovemydub said:


> Not really an I told you so, but I TOLD you you had hardware issues... lol :banghead::laugh::beer:


Yep which is the case 97% of the time. I've been sounding like a broken record but like I said several times in this thread, its a k04 variant. It's not rocket science, k04 files have been out for 10 years. Everyone was saying "oh it needs custom tuned its a frakenturbo". No, we have adaptive ECM's as long as your hardware is configured and buttoned up properly you won't have major issues. I'm not saying it will be 100% optimal but thats where Malone comes in dialing in your logs and rescaling the boost curve to the users desire. :thumbup:


Its great to see you taken care, especially after all the crap that was in this thread. I think that also says something for [email protected] All the frustation and negative posts on the forum and the man never lost his composure or dignity.:thumbup:

Glad to see it all work out; now go flash a more aggressive file and hit those rollers eace:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

numbers as in a dyno? or logs from some pulls? anyone know how much it cost for dyno time around the south jersey area?

but right now my car isnt making any power...boost is dialed down untill i get some logs to Mark...which i will this weekend

and yea it was a hardware issue, Thanks to CTSturbo for being liars...you guys shoulda heard the guy on the phone...he said Mark must not know what hes doing...thats why my car wouldnt run on a 440CC file with their 415cc injectors...:screwy:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

who were u talkin to @ CTS? :facepalm:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Big_Tom said:


> who were u talkin to @ CTS? :facepalm:


no idea, wish i knew, he barely even let me finish a sentence before cuttin me off, then said he had to take a call....i sat on hold, i heard him click back to me...then just hang up...im going to call back and just ask for the head hauncho...they have some explaining to do...and i actually want 440's, not 415's

i dont want to sound racist in anyway, but the guy on the phone sounded like he had a very mild indian accent, not sure if that would help anyone in knowing who it might be.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ true, i'd want real 440cc injectors too :facepalm: you gotta love when businesses don't pay attention to detail :facepalm:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ true, i'd want real 440cc injectors too :facepalm: you gotta love when businesses don't pay attention to detail :facepalm:


heres the thing i dont get...on the phone with the guy at ctsturbo he said the 415's were the replacement for 440's and that they flowed the same, then when i tried to say, well they obviously dont. he started cutting me off and wouldnt let me finish :/ i never got to tell him that once i told Mark to make a file for 415cc injectors my car ran fine....so that they couldnt flow at 440

im sorry that i keep bringin up the guys at ctsturbo but man...im so irritated!


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

i would be too.
they sound like a bunch of d!ckbags over there.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

FWIW I'd like to update this and say that Mark appears to be getting caught up because I've gotten 6 tune tweaks form him in the last ~2 weeks. We're getting some issues resolved and he has been very quick to turn a new tune around when I get him logs. He's back to responding to my emails in a couple of hours on average as well when I have questions.


:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Wow. Gotta love that Quattro spool.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Wow. Gotta love that Quattro spool.


You should have seen what the gauge showed.  

You should make a fancy chart out of the MAF readings. I should also learn how to make those fancy graphs (which is sad because I work in IT :screwy: ).


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

i have two logs of 2k rpm pull in 3rd gear. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aseepuseg7JMdFVYd2llc3BjMWFEaUVPVkdsMVFMRHc&hl=en_US

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aseepuseg7JMdHpGV0pCX0VXYWVHSmtvaVlVUDBtRlE&hl=en_US

it was around 55F outside...2nd gear has no traction! the boost snaps in and i spin tires all the way to redline...the car hauls!

i still have cold start issues, my car searches for idle for the first 3-5 minutes.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Quattro = no tire spin, though I suppose that's good for not getting tickets. 

I finally got my FMIC installed today so I'll be taking new logs on Monday. Should have some good IATs now so hopefully I won't pull so much timing.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Camride said:


> Quattro = no tire spin, though I suppose that's good for not getting tickets.
> 
> I finally got my FMIC installed today so I'll be taking new logs on Monday. Should have some good IATs now so hopefully I won't pull so much timing.


That thing should spin even with quattro. My sisters chipped 2.0 will squeak the tires, and smolder them when it's wet... Course she has a south bend clutch, and that sure helps put it to the ground... 

Sent from my PG06100


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

hatetolovemydub said:


> That thing should spin even with quattro. My sisters chipped 2.0 will squeak the tires, and smolder them when it's wet... Course she has a south bend clutch, and that sure helps put it to the ground...
> 
> Sent from my PG06100


I should have specified: Tiptronic + Quattro = no tire spin.  I get a little chirp in first occasionally, but that probably won't happen anymore with new tires.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Maybe I should have just read your sig lol...


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Camride said:


> I finally got my FMIC installed today so I'll be taking new logs on Monday. Should have some good IATs now so hopefully I won't pull so much timing.


while your doing the logs, check out your Coolant temp, oil Temp, knock and Timing.

theres another thread on here about FMIC vs SMIC, mainly the TyrolSport SMIC.

just curious, why did you decide to go with a FMIC?


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Wow. Gotta love that Quattro spool.


Ok, how did you get 23.5 psi reading on that graph? You do know that MAP sensors are limited to around ~ 21 psi depending on atmospheric pressure? 2540 is the maximum absolute pressure MAP sensor can read.
I hope you are not fabricating your fancy graphs. Linearity of them is just not something that will happen in real world on N75 valve.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> while your doing the logs, check out your Coolant temp, oil Temp, knock and Timing.
> 
> theres another thread on here about FMIC vs SMIC, mainly the TyrolSport SMIC.
> 
> just curious, why did you decide to go with a FMIC?


I went with a FMIC for cost (it's a cheap FMIC made by Yonaka) and because I couldn't find anyone that would actually prove how a SMIC would work by posting IATs. I didn't want to take the chance of spending $500+ on a SMIC only to not have it work well enough. With the FMIC it would be a simple swap to put in a Treadstone or some other highly effective core (minus cutting the crap out of the bumper) if this cheap one doesn't work well enough. I won't ever have to worry that airflow is a concern, especially running like this:










:laugh:



mescaline said:


> Ok, how did you get 23.5 psi reading on that graph? You do know that MAP sensors are limited to around ~ 21 psi depending on atmospheric pressure? 2540 is the maximum absolute pressure MAP sensor can read.
> I hope you are not fabricating your fancy graphs. Linearity of them is just not something that will happen in real world on N75 valve.


He made the graph from my logs, and I didn't notice the slight discrepancy (1540 is 22.3psi, I'm very close to sea level). Either way the graph is off, I was hitting 28psi on that run, but the logs show 2540 from 3,000rpm-6,500rpm.

Also, you do know there are alternative MAP sensors to use that read above 1.5bar right? I'm not running one, but I've seen people that have.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Yes there are 3bar sensors but they won't work on ME7 without MAJOR change in code itself. Very unlikely that you are running one. Beside APR that runs it on Stage 3+ for Audi TT I didn't really see anyone else running one. They are not just plug and play.

I suspected that graph is off and I knew that from full boost you were over MAP range (thus flat boost line) but NO idea how he got that little bump before full boost (why I said that graphs are fabricated).

I also noticed the same thing on their website, all boost lines on his turbos are flat and ideal while boost lines on K03/K04 and others are bumpy lol


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

mescaline said:


> Yes there are 3bar sensors but they won't work on ME7 without MAJOR change in code itself. Very unlikely that you are running one. Beside APR that runs it on Stage 3+ for Audi TT I didn't really see anyone else running one. They are not just plug and play.
> 
> I suspected that graph is off and I knew that from full boost you were over MAP range (thus flat boost line) but NO idea how he got that little bump before full boost (why I said that graphs are fabricated).
> 
> I also noticed the same thing on their website, all boost lines on his turbos are flat and ideal while boost lines on K03/K04 and others are bumpy lol


Yeah, no idea where the little bump at the beginning comes from.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

erevlydeux said:


> Well the simplest solution here is that Camride just posts the logs and we can check for ourselves. Bashing Doug before seeing actual evidence seems a little premature.












There you go, that's what I sent Doug.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Camride, take a look at the logs i posted, im using a godspeed SMIC. those logs were taken when it was around 55*F. 

i cant wait untill its always like 30* outside, car will always pull hard. when the summer comes again im definitely going to need WMI.

update on my car...my file is tweaked for less than a 440cc file, so i dont have the bog issue. my cold start is still having problems. my car searches for idle after it drops from 1200 to 800. im hoping to get something figured out so i can run a 440cc file smooth.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> Camride, take a look at the logs i posted, im using a godspeed SMIC. those logs were taken when it was around 55*F.
> 
> i cant wait untill its always like 30* outside, car will always pull hard. when the summer comes again im definitely going to need WMI.
> 
> update on my car...my file is tweaked for less than a 440cc file, so i dont have the bog issue. my cold start is still having problems. my car searches for idle after it drops from 1200 to 800. im hoping to get something figured out so i can run a 440cc file smooth.


Here are my IATs with the Yonaka from this morning (about 50*C out):









Not impressed. I think I'm just going to order a Treadstone TR11 and cut the crap out of my bumper.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

mescaline said:


> I suspected that graph is off and I knew that from full boost you were over MAP range (thus flat boost line) but NO idea how he got that little bump before full boost (why I said that graphs are fabricated).
> 
> I also noticed the same thing on their website, all boost lines on his turbos are flat and ideal while boost lines on K03/K04 and others are bumpy lol


That's how Excel generates the graph lines. It's called "line smoothing". Nothing more insidious than that.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Yea? Why isn't it smoothing other lines you posted then? Like lines from K03 or K04? Come on. By the way I generated enough of graphs in Excel to know when they are being fabricated.

It's almost impossible to get a boost line to look like that on our ECUs which is correcting all the time. Even with MBC/EBC boost line won't look that perfect. (am talking about boost lines on your website, not on the forum because this one has maxed out MAP and is totally worthless really).

You still didn't answer where the bump comes from on the last graph you posted.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

looking at your logs camride....you hit full boost around 2700? i dont hit full boost untill 3000 rpm. i also see you dont hold full boost for very long, but your temps dont seem to high. im sure if you are holding higher boost levels those temps would be a lot higher.

after looking at your FMIC, it looks small, like the size of a beefed up SMIC...your best bet is a nice SMIC with WMI...i have seen people with FMIC setups and still have high temps with the FT

and when you say 50*C, do you mean F?


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> looking at your logs camride....you hit full boost around 2700? i dont hit full boost untill 3000 rpm. i also see you dont hold full boost for very long, but your temps dont seem to high. im sure if you are holding higher boost levels those temps would be a lot higher.
> 
> after looking at your FMIC, it looks small, like the size of a beefed up SMIC...your best bet is a nice SMIC with WMI...i have seen people with FMIC setups and still have high temps with the FT
> 
> and when you say 50*C, do you mean F?


No, VCDS logs in *C so that's actually 122*F. 

I'm getting a Treadstone TR11 and just cutting the **** out of the bumper.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

mescaline said:


> ...I generated enough of graphs in Excel to know when they are being fabricated.
> 
> It's almost impossible to get a boost line to look like that on our ECUs which is correcting all the time. Even with MBC/EBC boost line won't look that perfect. (am talking about boost lines on your website, not on the forum because this one has maxed out MAP and is totally worthless really).


OK

Try this one on for size, which is also right there on the site.










If you still feel compelled to invoke "fabricated" feel free to contact the car owner and let him know your feelings.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Camride said:


> No, VCDS logs in *C so that's actually 122*F.
> 
> I'm getting a Treadstone TR11 and just cutting the **** out of the bumper.


gotcha, but you mentioned it was 50*C outside... so what was the actual temp outside?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> OK
> 
> Try this one on for size, which is also right there on the site.
> 
> ...


:laugh: :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Tom -- how far are you from Helen, GA? Chris at Osborn Performance is encouraging me to go to SOWO next year. You ever been up to it?


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## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Tom -- how far are you from Helen, GA? Chris at Osborn Performance is encouraging me to go to SOWO next year. You ever been up to it?



Been thinking of goin myself Doug, shall we set up a frankentubo rally?!?


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> gotcha, but you mentioned it was 50*C outside... so what was the actual temp outside?


Oh, sorry, yes it was 50*F outside, so ~10*C.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Tom -- how far are you from Helen, GA? Chris at Osborn Performance is encouraging me to go to SOWO next year. You ever been up to it?


Helen, GA looks to be about 6.5 to 7 hours away. I have never been up there to SOWO. it's possible i might be able to go next year. what is the show date?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

so lots of time has gone by since my first tune with Mark Malone Tuning... my car still doesn't run right on a 440cc file.. i am on a file with i believe something close to like 385cc...with the 385cc file my car still isnt 100% during the first 5 minutes..

the car sometimes doesn't start on the first attempt. when it does start it also has a sputter. the rpms go up to 1200 and after a little bit it drops down to 800. A couple seconds after it drops down to 800 my car starts to search for idle, the idle goes up and down. It takes a good 5 minutes of idling before the "idle search" goes away.

i put in a new fuel filter which didn't make a difference. So what could be left to check besides...removing the SAI, a new fuel pump, or a 3.5 FPR? 

i have a FT kit installed with Bosch 40lb 415cc injectors


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> so lots of time has gone by since my first tune with Mark Malone Tuning... my car still doesn't run right on a 440cc file.. i am on a file with i believe something close to like 385cc...with the 385cc file my car still isnt 100% during the first 5 minutes..
> 
> the car sometimes doesn't start on the first attempt. when it does start it also has a sputter. the rpms go up to 1200 and after a little bit it drops down to 800. A couple seconds after it drops down to 800 my car starts to search for idle, the idle goes up and down. It takes a good 5 minutes of idling before the "idle search" goes away.
> 
> ...


Not sure man, but I just got my file with the SAI removed and it goes straight to normal idle. It doesn't start up and sit at 1200rpm for ~30 seconds or so anymore, it's actually really nice. If you were planning on getting rid of your SAI I'd just go ahead and do that and that should have you all fixed up. And now that I think of it, your SAI could be bad. Have you tried unplugging it to see if it acts any different?


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## Jmacc (Jul 6, 2011)

Perhaps it is a throttle body issue. They can get really touchy. If you look at page 8-9, I believe, on this thread. Your issue sort of reminds me of this.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

i just ordered a blockoff plate from IE along with some resistors...i live in NJ so im hoping i can still pass inspection..Mark sent me a tune with a SAI delete, i will know within a week or so if the SAI delete helps out the cold start.

im also unsure if a TB would cause those issues...once the car is warmed up it drives great and pulls like crazy!


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

just got my package from IE. halfway done the install. hopefully it makes my car smoother! (SAI delete)


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

so i removed the SAI and my car still has same issues... 

i start the car, it does its thing during the 1200 rpm idle, when it drops from 1200 down to 800 thats when it starts the up and down idle, like its searching for the perfect balance. after 5 minutes of idling it seems to be good and the up and down idle stops.

is there any kind of logs i can get or things to check to make sure everything is running correctly?

i do know that when i first installed the FT kit, i had stock injectors in and my original ko3s tune, my car had no cold start issues or up and down idle. this all started when i installed the MAF, injectors, and Mark's tunes.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> so i removed the SAI and my car still has same issues...
> 
> i start the car, it does its thing during the 1200 rpm idle, when it drops from 1200 down to 800 thats when it starts the up and down idle, like its searching for the perfect balance. after 5 minutes of idling it seems to be good and the up and down idle stops.
> 
> ...


Just a thought...but maybe your new injectors aren't working right. There's a shop in Long Beach that will clean and flowtest your injectors for ~$35 with same day turnaround if you wanna find out.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

groggory said:


> Just a thought...but maybe your new injectors aren't working right. There's a shop in Long Beach that will clean and flowtest your injectors for ~$35 with same day turnaround if you wanna find out.


Sounds like a great idea, im going to call my buddies at CTSturbo and see if they wanna help me out first haha. but if that what it comes to, then i will be hitting you up for the info. is that 35 bucks an injector or for everything?

The car runs smooth when its warm, so wouldn't that rule out a faulty injector?

im tempted to switch back to stock injectors and maf along with original tune to see if the car is good or not. If its good then that would mean its either my MAF, injectors, or Mark's tune which i highly doubt.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Tom -- how far are you from Helen, GA? Chris at Osborn Performance is encouraging me to go to SOWO next year. You ever been up to it?


Doug I live a little over an hour from Helen Ga and SOWO is an awesome time with tons of cars!! It would definitely be worth checking out!! Nice roads and scenery as well:thumbup:
Hit me up if you end up trying to make a trip out of it!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I pretty much have to start doing these events beginning next year. And it sounds like this one is a good, low-key jump-off for FrankenTurbo.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

groggory said:


> Just a thought...but maybe your new injectors aren't working right. There's a shop in Long Beach that will clean and flowtest your injectors for ~$35 with same day turnaround if you wanna find out.


Downey -- USRT sent me one of their 415s with the understanding that I was going to get it flow tested. I'm doing that tomorrow.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I pretty much have to start doing these events beginning next year. And it sounds like this one is a good, low-key jump-off for FrankenTurbo.


:thumbup:


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## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I pretty much have to start doing these events beginning next year. And it sounds like this one is a good, low-key jump-off for FrankenTurbo.


they're a great time :thumbup:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

so the gasket between the turbo and exhaust manifold blew out today when i started my car...i also need to replace my CHRA which im doing next weekend....where should i pick up a new gasket? between turbo and manifold.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

the nearest VAG dealer. What fasteners are you using for that connection?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> the nearest VAG dealer. What fasteners are you using for that connection?


the ones supplied in the FT kit i believe


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

You need to get some nord locks and forget about the hardware that came with the kit. I haven't had much problem out of mine but everyone else seems to. I think you can pick some up off ebay. I definitely wouldn't do the job without them!!


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## carcraz (Jan 25, 2011)

nord lock rocks!!
wats size is needed? 8mm or 10mm washers for exhaust manifold


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Downeywu said:


> the ones supplied in the FT kit i believe


DISCLAIMER: i am in no way shape or form talking down, disrespecting, or trying to hurt anyones feelings. 

ive had the same issue with blown out gasket this week. the bolts supplied come loose, its a simple weekly check you have to do. mine came loose about 15 times so far. this last week it finally blew up my gasket. if you can get nordlocks for your two bolts that you can take out then go for it. i am not wastine another 80 some odd dollars on lock nuts and gaskets to do the back bolt. 

hopefully doug fixes the bolts he uses and the washers that come with future kits. STOP USING HARDWARE STORE FASTENERS. thats all i got to say.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

yea i dont plan on taking off my exhaust manifold, so i cant get the one bolt out....

is it possible i had a tiny leak there causing my car to run weird for the first 5 minutes?


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Downeywu said:


> yea i dont plan on taking off my exhaust manifold, so i cant get the one bolt out....
> 
> 
> is it possible i had a tiny leak there causing my car to run weird for the first 5 minutes?


 DISCLAIMER: i am in no way shape or form talking down, disrespecting, or trying to hurt anyones feelings.
i honestly dont know the answer to that. any leak prior to the o2 sensor causes the reading to be off. if it thinks it is runnin lean ( as it would if there was a leak) then it would add fuel to compensate. 

doug, have you finished your stud theory yet. know you were working on studs a while back.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Downey

Is the fastener hardware you are using this:











If not, high heat LocTite or NordLocks as suggested above.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Downey
> 
> Is the fastener hardware you are using this:
> 
> ...


DISCLAIMER: i am in no way shape or form talking down, disrespecting, or trying to hurt anyones feelings.


doug whats the installation procedure for these?? theres no hex cut into the to. double nut? capnut?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

well the manifold to block im hoping is nice and tight, i used the stock studs and new copper nuts. im not removing the manifold, plan on taking the turbo out the bottom. i picked up a new gasket at the dealer between turbo and manifold. i put around 4-4.5k miles on this turbo kit before the gasket blew. so hopefully all this work im going next weekend goes smooth


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Downeywu said:


> well the manifold to block im hoping is nice and tight, i used the stock studs and new copper nuts. im not removing the manifold, plan on taking the turbo out the bottom. i picked up a new gasket at the dealer between turbo and manifold. i put around 4-4.5k miles on this turbo kit before the gasket blew. so hopefully all this work im going next weekend goes smooth


Disclaimer: i am in no way shape or form being disrespectful, harassing or belittling anyone in this thread

good luck with that man. try this out first. replace the gasket and see if the sound goes away. we had the same problem with our turbos (bright golf and mine) tighten the piss outta the turbo to manifold bolts to the verge of snapping. if the sound goes away then thats your issue. 

I'm going to go down to the local fastenal and get some hardened steel bolts and some nordlocks. i don't pan on replacing my turbo for at least 100k miles.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

so i have noticed my coolant isnt pink anymore, it is like coffee, and i have frothy bubbles in the coolant resovoir.

i did a compression test with engine cold - 195, 170, 180, 180

so im ruling out headgasket, i ordered a oil cooler, if that doesn't fix it then its the turbo.

i cant wait to i have it all figured out, it was running awesome with the cooler weather


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Downeywu said:


> so i have noticed my coolant isnt pink anymore, it is like coffee, and i have frothy bubbles in the coolant resovoir.
> 
> i did a compression test with engine cold - 195, 170, 180, 180
> 
> ...


Most likely your oil cooler. Just keep in mind that you are going to have to flush it a few times to get it all out of the cooling system. The oil is going to make its way to the reservoir so you should pull it off and rinse it out as well.:thumbup:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

yea im going to, should i use just water to flush or some kind of cleaner?

question...

Right after i did the SAI delete and before the gasket between turbo/exhaust manifold blew out. 

The sound when i let off the gas while boost, the psshhh noise sounded different. it sounded like flutter dump kinda.

Is that normal after a SAI delete? 

i took my 007 DV apart and noticed that it didn't hold pressure, would that cause it?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Downeywu said:


> yea im going to, should i use just water to flush or some kind of cleaner?


The way I do it is...

* remove the thermostat. Reconnect the thermostat housing
* disconnect the upper rad hose
* disconnect the lower hose and direct it into a bucket.
* run hose water through it til it's flowing clean.
...now your block is clean.

* drain your radiator via the valve (unscrew the coolant ball cap)
* hook your hoses back up
* fill the radiator back up via the coolant ball
* start the car and let it run for a few minutes
* stop the car
* drain it all out again using both methods
* replace the thermostat
* top off the water in the engine block
* drain your radiator
* fill with g12
* run the car on level ground. Keep an eye on the coolant ball and add concentrated g12 to top it off

The water in the block + the concentrated g12 in the radiator will mix after a few engine cycles and give you roughly 50/50 water/g12 mix.

From here on out, use 50/50 g12/water to top it off. Keep an eye out for air bubbles for the next 30 minutes or so of driving. Sometimes takes awhile to burp the coolant system.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

nvm....
i got lots of things to replace, hopefully a 3.5 fpr will do the trick


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

UPDATE......

finally got my car up on a lift...

removed the downpipe and there isnt any oil in it...so no oil burning through turbo?

I stuck my hand up into the turbo through the exhaust side and the wheel spins free.

so the gasket between turbo and manifold that blew out, could it of caused my oil consumption and screech noise?

Basically im trying to decide if i should pull the turbo to replace CHRA for the FT, or just slip in a new OEM exhaust gasket?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

just put a new gasket oil. sometimes when u have exhaust leaks oil comes thru the seals. i dont know why/how tho


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

damn i havent been on this thread in a minute.
Downey, sucks you havnt gotten your idle stumbles out of the way yet. kinda making me lose faith in Mark. im still planing and going with his tune. but now its mainly because i already bought the Flash Zilla. and im thikin about going Stoker next year sometime.
and Malone being a custom tune, it would make it so much easier.

Doug, im doing for my FT. instead of trying to line up the bolts with the gasket and the turbo. i went to Fastenal and picked up a 3ft section of it, using 10 grade self locking buts, and spring washers. and im gonna used the RED Thread Lock when threading the studs into the turbo.
i havnt dug deep into it. but i believe there is some exhaust blowing out between the mani and the turbo.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> damn i havent been on this thread in a minute.
> Downey, sucks you havnt gotten your idle stumbles out of the way yet. kinda making me lose faith in Mark. im still planing and going with his tune. but now its mainly because i already bought the Flash Zilla. and im thikin about going Stoker next year sometime.
> and Malone being a custom tune, it would make it so much easier.
> 
> ...


i dont have any doubt in Mark, because i also came to the conclusion i have a wideband setup, and i've been telling Mark it was a narrowband all along....hes checking into it right now to make a new file....and yes i know i'm an idiot


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> i dont have any doubt in Mark, because i also came to the conclusion i have a wideband setup, and i've been telling Mark it was a narrowband all along....hes checking into it right now to make a new file....and yes i know i'm an idiot


what do you mean you came to the conclusion you had a wideband? did you not know?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> what do you mean you came to the conclusion you had a wideband? did you not know?


i thought i had narrowband, groggory told me to check my o2 wires and the front one has 5 wires so it means i have wideband.

car is a 2001 AWW 1.8t


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Downeywu said:


> i thought i had narrowband, groggory told me to check my o2 wires and the front one has 5 wires so it means i have wideband.
> 
> car is a 2001 AWW 1.8t


yes, AWW are wideband :thumbup:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Big_Tom said:


> yes, AWW are wideband :thumbup:


yea i should of known better...i remember now, when i purchased a new o2 sensor back in the day it was for wideband :screwy:

i'm leaning towards the idea of just swapping out the gasket thats blown. hopefully that solves the oil consumption and screech noise... i also picked up an OEM gasket and i'm goin to reuse the bolts.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

reuse the bolts?
are you talking about the copper nuts that hold the exhaust mani to the head?
idk if i would reuse those.
they are copper, and they have a little tab that tells you when you have the correct torque.
kinda like stretch bolts.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

the gasket between the turbo and exhaust manifold blew out. my goal is to leave the manifold in place. un-do the 3 bolts holding the turbo to the manifold and slide in a new gasket. 

if that doesn't fix the screech noise and oil consumption...then i gotta tear back into it and actually replace the CHRA


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ that should work when installing the new gasket. ive used that method before


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

update....

the three bolts holding the turbo on were finger loose....now i know better that if i start to hear it screech, i need to re-tighten those bolts before the gasket blows out completely.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The gasket's probably shot. After re-tightening the fasteners, feel around the connection for escaping exhaust puffing out. Odds are there will be.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

yea it was blown out, i put in a new oem one, the car is still on the lift....i gotta bolt the exhaust back on and stuff


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

all back together, no more screech noise. now i gotta keep an eye on the oil. i also still need to get my tune figured out....feels good to get something accomplished though.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

good stuff:thumbup:
i wish i could be rockin Malone right now.
damn ECU had to go and fry on me.
then this Capitalist holiday:laugh:

oh well. soon enough.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Downeywu said:


> all back together, no more screech noise. now i gotta keep an eye on the oil. i also still need to get my tune figured out....feels good to get something accomplished though.


:beer: if your seals are passing oil you will see smoke. if it doesnt smoke and you dont hear any funny noises ur most likely fine.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> if it doesnt smoke and you dont hear any funny noises ur most likely fine.


really, so if my engine isnt smoking and no wired noises are coming from it. then that means everything is ok. i always thought it meant something was wrong.:laugh::laugh:

i have smoke coming from somewhere. but its only when my car is idle for a few mins. i cant seem to track it down though.
i can see the heat cover wrapping thing, on the charged side coming off the FT, flapping. and when i put my hand there i can feel air flow. but it isnt hot. not even warm.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> really, so if my engine isnt smoking and no wired noises are coming from it. then that means everything is ok. i always thought it meant something was wrong.:laugh::laugh:
> 
> i have smoke coming from somewhere. but its only when my car is idle for a few mins. i cant seem to track it down though.
> i can see the heat cover wrapping thing, on the charged side coming off the FT, flapping. and when i put my hand there i can feel air flow. but it isnt hot. not even warm.


^^^ it might be your oil return line if thats the case. make sure its a short as possible with no unnecessary bends :thumbup:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ it might be your oil return line if thats the case. make sure its a short as possible with no unnecessary bends :thumbup:


the oil return line? why would that cause smoke?
and just im are clear. thats the line going from the turbo to eh bottom of the block, right?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ it might be your oil return line if thats the case. make sure its a short as possible with no unnecessary bends :thumbup:


you see smoke after idle for a few minutes, as in it comes out the exhaust? that is your seals on the turbo leaking most likely. 

if you feel air around the charge pipe area, it could be the rubber hose off the turbo isnt tight, or the gasket between turbo/manifold is leaking/blown.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

while i was working on my car...i was thinking of some things to keep the car cooler.....could i wrap my charge pipe with heatshield tape? 

I noticed that it runs rather close to the FT exhaust manifold and got some discoloring...i also noticed my pancake pipe gets pretty hot.

i am also waiting for this holiday to be over so Mark gets back in the office to check out my tune!


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Downeywu said:


> while i was working on my car...i was thinking of some things to keep the car cooler.....could i wrap my charge pipe with heatshield tape?
> 
> I noticed that it runs rather close to the FT exhaust manifold and got some discoloring...i also noticed my pancake pipe gets pretty hot.
> 
> i am also waiting for this holiday to be over so Mark gets back in the office to check out my tune!


if you have intercooler pipes thar run next to major heat sources, i'd wrap it. My car runs way better now that i have all my temps in check. wrapping my o2 pipe and getting a turbo blanket made the most difference


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> you see smoke after idle for a few minutes, as in it comes out the exhaust? that is your seals on the turbo leaking most likely.
> 
> if you feel air around the charge pipe area, it could be the rubber hose off the turbo isnt tight, or the gasket between turbo/manifold is leaking/blown.


no, not from the exhaust. from the engine bay.

and i thought maybe i had a blown gasket, but then the air would be hot. and its at outside/ambient temp.

i was thinking the draft was coming from the Radiator fans. but i dont see how the air could possibly make it around the block that much.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

well well well... still having problems, where can i send these injectors to be flowtested?


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

what kind of problems?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

well, stock injectors and MAF with Marks tune car runs beautiful....

440cc injectors installed with stock MAF car has cold start idle issues, slight bog when touching gas.

Mark has tried various tunes and tweaks, his conclusion is that i have the injectors flowtested.


other than idle issues and stuff, the turbo has been doing awesome!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

To me. I have some new USRT units I'm sending out as well.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> To me. I have some new USRT units I'm sending out as well.


ok how soon do you need them? and how much $$?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Just got off the phone with SouthBay fuel injectors....

the results are that i have 42lb 440cc injectors at 3bar....

not really sure what to do next to try and figure out my cold engine start idle problems


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Have Mark turn off VVT activation at startup. I'll bet that's your issue.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Have Mark turn off VVT activation at startup. I'll bet that's your issue.


Alright just sent Mark an email, thanks Doug!


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

I had the injectors flowtested and they're flowing 42lb 440cc at 3bar.

My car doesnt run right for the first 5-8 minutes with the injectors installed.

Mark gave me a tune back a lil bit ago for stock injectors and maf. The car started and idled perfect.

With 440 injectors installed and stock maf i get the idle issues....

Anyone got some info on what to do next?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Is it possible that my front o2 sensor is causing the cold engine issues? the search for idle starts when the o2 sensor enters the fuel map, open loop. i also have a sputter/misfire when first touching the gas...Car drives fine once warmed up, turbo pulls great.

update of the mods for the engine....
2001 1.8t AWW 80,000 miles Mark Malone tune
F4T 
FT exhaust mani
42lb 440 injectors
FT TIP
3" MAF
godspeed SMIC
3" Eurojet DP highflow cat
2.5" cat back AWE tuning
006 Forge DV
K&N filter
SAI delete
bkr7e plugs
stock FPR
overboost valve in parallel

i also get about 285-295 miles from a full tank of gas. with the abuse of 2nd gear and boost


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

Downeywu said:


> Is it possible that my front o2 sensor is causing the cold engine issues? the search for idle starts when the o2 sensor enters the fuel map, open loop. i also have a sputter/misfire when first touching the gas...Car drives fine once warmed up, turbo pulls great.
> 
> update of the mods for the engine....
> 2001 1.8t AWW 80,000 miles Mark Malone tune
> ...



Would any of these items possible correct my idle issues with 440 injectors installed...

New front o2 sensor

Coolant Temp sensor

Or uploading the tune to try another ecu.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

you have your SAI deleted, so im amusing you have the proper little gizmos so they dont throw codes. but did you have Mark delete them through the tune as well?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> you have your SAI deleted, so im amusing you have the proper little gizmos so they dont throw codes. but did you have Mark delete them through the tune as well?


yea Mark had the SAI delete in the tune. 

Basically what Mark has told me is that the injectors don't seem to be flowing a true 440. the more he dialed the injector size down the better it got...i believe he was down to about 385cc in order for it to be some what close to smooth...still had a search for idle.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

I'm trying to pin point what could be causing the issue with the idle. whatever it may be im not sure but....isn't it possible that there could be a small issue that isnt noticed on stock injectors, but when i introduce the 440's the "small" issue becomes a "big" issue. If so what things would cause problems besides a "slow" primary O2 sensor.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

this might be a dumb question but...
with your 3" MAF, are you using the stock MAF sensor? or do you have the corresponding sensor in it?

do any codes pop up when its warming up?

do you have a AFR gauge?

what do you have the bkr7e plugs gapped at?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> this might be a dumb question but...
> with your 3" MAF, are you using the stock MAF sensor? or do you have the corresponding sensor in it?
> 
> do any codes pop up when its warming up?
> ...


I believe i already ruled out the MAf being the issue...Mark sent me seperate tunes and the problem was there with stock MAF and 440 injectors.

There have been no codes at all.

No i don't have an AFR.

My plugs should be gapped at .028


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> I believe i already ruled out the MAf being the issue...Mark sent me seperate tunes and the problem was there with stock MAF and 440 injectors.
> 
> There have been no codes at all.
> 
> ...


you might wanna invest in an AFR gauge. i bought the Innovate wide band MTX-L, iirc. i did a DIY on in it too.
its a nice little insurance policy.

but then again, you have VAGCOM. right?
tryin logging the AFRs with it during a cold warm up and see what comes up.
if they look good, then it might be your 1st o2 sensor going out, therefor not reading correctly.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> you might wanna invest in an AFR gauge. i bought the Innovate wide band MTX-L, iirc. i did a DIY on in it too.
> its a nice little insurance policy.
> 
> but then again, you have VAGCOM. right?
> ...


Yes i have a vcds, but im not pro with it..... you're talking about logs 031,032,033? 

I also haven't done much research for a AFR gauge, i'll look into the one you mentioned. thanks!


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> Yes i have a vcds, but im not pro with it..... you're talking about logs 031,032,033?
> 
> I also haven't done much research for a AFR gauge, i'll look into the one you mentioned. thanks!


 yes it is one of those. 
hes a page that will tell you everything you need to know on how to log different blocks. 
http://malonetuning.com/guides/vagcom/vagcom_logging_guide.pdf 

and here is my DIY and review on the gauge. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...auge-Install&p=76429616&posted=1#post76429616


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

ok i recorded some logs....i noticed in group 033 that my o2 sensor was ranging from -20% up to +17%. That started to happened about 2 minutes after the car was running from a cold start. Does that mean my o2 is on the way out? 

Even after letting the car warm up for a little while...the o2 sensor was still bouncing around, but not as much...also every so often the car would have a hiccup and the rpms would drop for a quick split second then pick back up.

if these 440 injectors will never idle smoothe im bout to give up on them and get some tt225 injectors or something.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

whats your AFRs?
if your idle is having this hiccup, i, thinking you have a boost or vac leak.

i dont think its the 440s.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

which group is for afr's? i logged 31,32,33 for the idle


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

and what were those?
i dont remember which block was for AFRs off the top of my head.
i know its on the VCDS website though.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

the first 2 boxes for group 031 during cold start were 1.000 and 0.977
during warm up the first box was going from .969 - 1.140 and the second box was at 0.984
After the car was warm the first box was moving from .897 - 1.016 the second box stayed at 0.984

if its confusing....i could just email the logs to someone so they could look at them


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

just post them up here.
:beer:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aseepuseg7JMdFhuU04zQmtqaFVNOWVoR21aZFJqa0E

it may have been over kill.....but i let the log run the whole time the car was running, which included some driving around.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

heres a pull in 3rd gear from 2k rpms....i think mark has the boost turned down a smidge untill the idle is figured out 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aseepuseg7JMdF9CUi1QQW9sMG1UWXBxbklzRlZkc0E

Make sure you look at the one dated for 3/25/12


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

i also did a full system scan of all the modules to check for codes....

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PGBhlG9m22T5cagP22Iw_51hANjBTYst1l4gf9P8KQ0/edit


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

and heres one more pull in 3rd gear from 2k rpm but only up to about 4800 rpm. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aseepuseg7JMdE1ibEhMRHozWlI5NTB0WG1yTnZOeGc


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

crap dude. its all in decimals. ugh.

do you know how to make on to a graph?

look at my mk4 thread. in my sign. i had to use Google Docs. but if you go to... Format, i believe it is, that you can put into a graph.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

you've been fighting this issue for 11 months now :facepalm:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

pg12 FTW!:laugh:

i was just thinkin about that when i left my last post.
im not too sure about going with Malone for my tune now. :screwy:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

I haven't given up on Mark, he has also told me that all his other 440cc tunes for other people are fine. I seem to be the only one experience these problems.... Just gotta keep a positive attitude 
Knowing my luck its prolly somethin stupid on my end haha...im going to perform another pressure test to check for vac leaks


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> crap dude. its all in decimals. ugh.
> 
> do you know how to make on to a graph?
> 
> look at my mk4 thread. in my sign. i had to use Google Docs. but if you go to... Format, i believe it is, that you can put into a graph.


i have been trying to graph stuff but google docs is running slow and glitchin out for me


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> he has also told me that all his other 440cc tunes for other people are fine. I seem to be the only one experience these problems.



have you contacted any of the other said people with 440cc tunes? i find it hard to believe everybody else 440cc FT tunes are fine... except yours. your the ONLY person having a problem.

do you know anybody else here on the Tex have 440cc with a FT & Malone that could vouch for this?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> have you contacted any of the other said people with 440cc tunes? i find it hard to believe everybody else 440cc FT tunes are fine... except yours. your the ONLY person having a problem.
> 
> do you know anybody else here on the Tex have 440cc with a FT & Malone that could vouch for this?


no i don't know anyone else with Malone tune 440cc and FT


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

soooo......

My car doesn't have the bog or misfires anymore during the first 2-5 minutes of running....but my car still has a search for idle( idle dips then picks back up) Maybe my car just hates 440 injectors :/


The search for idle starts to happen when my O2 sensor turns on and starts reading stuff. it lasts for about 2-4 minutes


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

im guessing you already tried a new o2 sensor.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> im guessing you already tried a new o2 sensor.


no not yet....i do know my car runs fine with stock injectors...im guessing Mark still has some tweaks left to make before we decide its a shotty front o2


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

if you haven't changed it. see if you could borrow a friends o2 sensor and throw it in real quick. if nothing changes then its something on Marks end.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

if you have any doubts about your o2 sensor, change it. tuning on a bad o2 is making backwards progress IMO


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> if you have any doubts about your o2 sensor, change it. tuning on a bad o2 is making backwards progress IMO


Like hustling backwards pimpin!:laugh::thumbup:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

well i know i bought a rear o2 sensor back in the day, i'm not 100% about a front o2 sensor...im buying one right now on ecstuning


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Downeywu said:


> well i know i bought a rear o2 sensor back in the day, i'm not 100% about a front o2 sensor...im buying one right now on ecstuning


advance autoparts and germanautoparts are way cheaper :thumbup:


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

wow good thing the order didnt go through...advanceautoparts is like 40 bucks cheaper haha


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Downeywu said:


> wow good thing the order didnt go through...advanceautoparts is like 40 bucks cheaper haha


:thumbup: i'll keep this in mind for when it come time for mine.

any progress? or did you just order the o2 sensor?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> :thumbup: i'll keep this in mind for when it come time for mine.
> 
> any progress? or did you just order the o2 sensor?


 i just ordered the o2 sensor lastnight, along with some other stuff since advanceautoparts is having a 20% off sale...the o2 ended up being 45 bucks plus free shipping. i purchased some sea foam to check for exhaust leaks. i am going to know pretty soon here whats up with my car.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Downeywu said:


> wow good thing the order didnt go through...advanceautoparts is like 40 bucks cheaper haha


 :beer: I just saved u some money bro


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

did you get it yet?


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> did you get it yet?


yes i got the new O2 sensor....did i install it yet? No.... I plan on working on the car this weekend. Gotta change the timing belt/tensioner. 82,000 miles and the car is a 2001, i'm pressing my luck haha.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

.


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## Downeywu (Apr 27, 2005)

.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

whats the latest greatest news broski?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> whats the latest greatest news broski?


this :thumbup:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

hey big tom, not to thread home slick thread here or anything, but how do you like the Godspeed aluminum Radiator? how does it compare to the Mishimoto radiator?


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> hey big tom, not to thread home slick thread here or anything, but how do you like the Godspeed aluminum Radiator? how does it compare to the Mishimoto radiator?


the godspeed unit is ok. it does a excellent job of cooling, fitment is not too bad, but it doesnt fit as well as the stock radiator when it comes to mounting your a/c condensor. if you can spend the 50 or 60 bux more on a real mishimoto tho, they are constructed better. the godspeed unit is pretty light compared to a real mishimoto but it does work good. it prob wont stand up to overheating like a mishimoto would tho


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