# Brake Over Haul Question



## Riegn (May 30, 2010)

Im planning to completely over haul my braking system. These are the parts I would like to buy: 

ECS Brake Kit: 
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--VR6_12v/Braking/Service_Kits/ES257386/ 

Braided Lines: 

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--VR6_12v/Braking/Lines/ES251798/ 

Would/Should I upgrade my calipers or any aspect of my calipers?


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## Riegn (May 30, 2010)

Bump!!!


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## Elwood (Aug 10, 2001)

If the system has been maintained with regular (every 2 years) brake fluid flushes, then there is no reason to do anything to the calipers. If not, you may have corrosion to deal with.


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## dogdog (Jul 26, 2007)

unless you are going for the looks those brake lines offer no more advantage than regular oem lines. but does have a little better looking stainless steel braided shell and bright pink colors

changing those lines sometimes might be more of a headaches if your lines are frozen at the connections.

keep your fluid fresh and bubble free (air lock) and your brake pads / disc proper like what the other guy says.

unless you are going for looks alll bets are off.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

dogdog said:


> unless you are going for the looks those brake lines offer no more advantage than regular oem lines. but does have a little better looking stainless steel braided shell and bright pink colors
> 
> changing those lines sometimes might be more of a headaches if your lines are frozen at the connections.
> 
> unless you are going for looks alll bets are off.




Why would you say this?

Stainless braid covered teflonor kevlar hoses/lines (when properly sized, meaning the diameter of the lines) will yield a firmer brake pedal and more positive brake action when stepping on the brake pedal because all of the fluid you are pushing from the master cylinder is used to operate the brake calipers or wheel cylinder. Stock rubber lines expand under pressure, and some of the fluid pressure generated by stepping on the brake pedal is wasted in expanded the rubber brake lines.

There are two cons to installing stainless steel braided teflon or kevlar brake hoses. 

#1 They have some memory, so you need to make sure that you twist the hoses (and leave them under tension) going the wrong way, because the hoses can unscrew themselves. You can avoid this by installing the brake hose on the caliper first, while the caliper is not mounted on the car, AND then attaching the hose to the hard line on the car, by turning the caliper (with the hose attached). You should also periodically check to make sure that the hoses are not unscrewing themselves. 

#2 The braided stainless will saw through anything that it comes in contact with. Which is the reason that many Telfon and kevlar braided stainless hoses come from the factory with a plastic or rubber sleeve over the braided stainless. When using these lines, you need to secure the hoses (cable ties) so they do not make contact with any components of the car.


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## dogdog (Jul 26, 2007)

granted that miniscule little if any scale improvement from a worn factory hydraulic hose than a brand new factory one, which prob equate to 1/100 sec improvement. unless your name is Mario and drive a formula 1. prob won't make much a differences for daily driver with a properly maintained and bleed brake. and price you are paying is more unless you find a good deal for those lines and that your lines are in needed of changing like mine.. if you are going to DIY, happens to have rusted connections. prob gets more headache than you want to deal with. if you are not going to DIY, the mechanic will prob rip you a new one as it require bleeding the system to change those hoses.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

dogdog said:


> granted that miniscule little if any scale improvement from a worn factory hydraulic hose than a brand new factory one, which prob equate to 1/100 sec improvement. unless your name is Mario and drive a formula 1. prob won't make much a differences for daily driver with a properly maintained and bleed brake. and price you are paying is more unless you find a good deal for those lines and that your lines are in needed of changing like mine.. if you are going to DIY, happens to have rusted connections. prob gets more headache than you want to deal with. if you are not going to DIY, the mechanic will prob rip you a new one as it require bleeding the system to change those hoses.




Check the owner's manual for your car. A complete fluid flush and bleed is recommended every two years anyway. Bleeding and flushing the brake system is no big deal

After changing to stainless braid covered teflon lines the difference in the firmness of the brake pedal is easily felt, even if your old lines were not deteriorated. You don't have to be a talented race river to feel the difference.

Granted, any change (like flushing and bleeding the brake system or installing new rubber hoses ) will also yield a noticeable improved in/on a neglected brake system. But it's not the same thing as some people who rave after installing some of the wiz-bang high tech spark plugs when they replace their old 60K mile conventional spark plugs, who would probably see the same improvement with a new set of quality conventional spark plugs. Teflon and Kevlar brake lines do not expand like rubber lines under pressure, and do yield improved brake pedal stiffness, and performance.

Recommending against installing improved brake lines because the parts on your car are rotten, and may be difficult to remove is a poor reason not to make a parts upgrade on your car. Besides, if the original lines are rusty, cracked, hardened, or soft, it's time to replace them anyway. You might as well make an improvement. When it's time for new tires, you don't install another set of low performance OEM type tires do you?


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## dogdog (Jul 26, 2007)

Not difficult but P.I.T.A, and have a good chance of screwing up the hardline if you have aging system, just trying to loosing that the stuck nut. not difficult to replace the hardline in front, but still hassle. the lines in the rear.... hope you like to lay on your backs or have a lift..

Those M1-3 10mm and M6-3 12mm nuts are not exactly easily available at your local autopart store. not to mention you needed to get the bubble flare tool and the bender and a bunch of 3/16 / 4mm brake lines.before you know it you are spending additional $$$ than you thought oh performances upgrade for only $99 . Lines usually don't go bad if proper maintenance are done to it or you don't have any external forces that damages it.
usually you don't needed to upgrade unless you heavily modified your engine from factory in needed for more stopping power to compensate the extra HPs. In these cases, you are going to needed more than just stainless steel braided lines.

I didn't exactly recommended or recommend against it, just saying they offer no more advantage than OEM. I did say it is better looking.

"unless you are going for the looks those brake lines offer no more advantage than regular oem lines. but does have a little better looking stainless steel braided shell and bright pink colors
"

Here is what sums up for me:

Do I have them on: Yes
Do I feel more superior: Yes
Does it look good: maybe mines is gray maybe look pink only at 5 o'clock sharp. 
Do I needed to change them: in my case: Yes broken line and also got them cheaper than OEM.
Would I have use OEM: YES which ever is cheaper.
.
.
.
.

Does it offer any more superior performances then previously when brake were good: No


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

I've read where moisture contaminates the brake fluid at a rate of 6-8% per year. Go without
changing the fluid every two years and you won't have optimum braking results with all that 
watering down of the brake fluid.


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