# DIY: 2.5l Timing Chain Replacement



## KurwaMac (Sep 25, 2011)

Well as a bit of a thank you to the 2.5l community I am doing a write-up for doing timing and clutch. This whole project has taken me about a week and a half but if I had something like this I’m sure it could have been a lot quicker. The estimated time I was told from the VW Manual was ~14 hours. I will say it has been no easy task and a couple special tools are needed. I am going to pull some DIY’s from other places and grab some pictures/instructions from other sources. The transmission removing section of this write-up is for a 5spd manual as that is what I have. I will start off with all the things I ended up purchasing.
As always I take no responsibility for your mistakes or errors. This is the method I used and the car has been running for ~2000 miles since. Good luck.
Items purchased:
Timing Kit: UroTuning $399.99
http://www.urotuning.com/Timing-Chain-Kit-BGP-or-BGQ-engine-codes-Mk5-Ra-p/tb_2.5l_bgp_bgq.htm
Includes everything I needed + sealant for timing covers (I did notice however that I only used 1 of the 3 standoff pins that were included.)

Clutch kit: ECS Tuning $299.99
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.5/Drivetrain/Clutch/ES2569727/
This included the pressure plate, friction plate, throwout bearing, single mass flywheel, replacement hardware, alignment tool, and input shaft grease. Pretty reasonable price considering some people think of the single mass flywheel as an upgrade from the DMF.
Crankshaft Seal – Rear: ~$40
https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.5/Engine/Gaskets_-and-_Seals/Crankshaft/ES281657/
This is the only thing I didn’t do on my vehicle that I am regretting not doing. Its about a year later and the car is leaking a small amount of oil that I’m pretty sure is from this. There’s a VR6 DIY on replacing this. Just do it while you have the transmission out.
Timing Tools: Integrated Engineering ~$120.00
Cam Lock: http://www.performancebyie.com/integrated-engineering-billet-cam-locking-tool-for-2-5l-5-cylinder
Crank Lock: http://www.performancebyie.com/oem-crankshaft-locking-pin-for-2-5l-5-cylinder-engines
It’s probably possible to find these two pieces cheaper other places but 120 for specifically these two parts isn’t bad considering amazon has the same tools plus a bunch of unnecessary extras for like 150+ (If your just doing your clutch I would recommend at least getting the crank lock)
Brake booster gasket:
Possibly not necessary but might as well for the price. I also found that the seal on mine was pretty rusted and was most likely the cause of the small oil leak I was noticing prior to doing this project.
Other odd tools I used
Triple square sockets: I used 8, 10, 12, and 14 mm 
27mm socket: for the axle bolt
Multiple Jacks: I think I used 4 for the engine alone; this is if you don’t have the transmission dropping tool or a nice cherry picker + necessary holding tools.
Metric size 6 hex key: There’s a deep bolt hidden behind the intake which is necessary to take out.
Other various socket + torx bits

Order of removal
-Engine Cover
-Transmission
-Clutch
-Intake Manifold
-Various pumps on timing cover’s
-Timing Covers
-Timing components

And now for the write-up, good luck and don’t come crying to me when/if you mess up.
-Removing engine cover:
Here’s a good DIY by someone else for removing the cover:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...e-the-Engine-Cover-from-the-Jetta-2.5L-Engine
-Removing transmission:
-For safety purposes:
1. Check whether a coded radio is installed. If so, obatin the anti-theft code.
2. Turn off the ignition and disconnect the battery ground cable
3. Block the back wheels and put the E-Brake on. Lift the vehicle to about a foot and a half.

-Remove the battery and battery tray
1. Disconnect battery cables and tuck to side
2. Remove the battery tray by removing bolts under battery
-Drain the coolant
I did this by removing the hose from the lower driver side of the radiator
-Removing shifting mechanisms
1. Remove shifter cable lock washer [1] from selecter lever [A]
2. Remove shift cable from pin

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Image uploading. Refresh page to view









3. Remove selector cable lock washer [2] from relay lever [2]
4. Remove selector cable from pin
5.Remove lock washer [3] from relay lever *
6. Carefully remove relay lever  and plastic bushing
7. Remove nut [4] from transmission shift lever
8. Firmly pull up on the shift lever as it is captured to the transmission with a spline
I have found that grabbing the shift weight on both sides and rocking it back and forth while lifting will generally break it free from the spline.
9. Remove the cable bracket bolts [arrows] from transmission








10. Tie up shift and slector cable out of the way
11. Remove bracket  from transmission and pull it off hose/line assembly [A]^
12. Remove Bolts [A] from transmission and motor mount and remove motor mount arm\/
13. Remove slave cyhlinder bolts  and remove the slave cylinder carefully








Note: Tie up the slave cylinder off to the side and do not press the clutch pedal/open hydraulic system

-Removing Transmission Supports
1. Remove transmission support bolts [A] and support (in previous image)
2. Disconnect the ground cable from upper transmission bolt [3]
3. Disconnect the backup lamp switch connector [1]
It may be a good idea to remove the switch as well. All it takes is a socket that fits over the connection, and tape up the open hole when you have removed the switch to prevent dirt.
4. Pull back the rubber shield and remove the connector [2] and ground wire [3] from starter








5. Remove the upper bolt for the starter behind [3]
6. Remove the 3 upper transmission bolts
-Support the engine/Transmission
-The volkwagen spec is to use two “tools”, an engine support and a transmission jack. I am told these tools are engine support bridge 10-222 A, engine support feet 10-222 A/8, engine support adapter 10-222 A/3, and adapter 10-222 A/16. While the transmission support is 3282 with adapter 3283/29+39.
-I ended up using two jacks for the engine and one for the transmission plus a cherry picker that was used where necessary. This method is very tricky and to be honest can be unsafe but If you are very careful about it and can control the jacks you should be able to use this method.
-Removing Axles/other blocking items
1. At this time your going to want to remove the lower plastic shield under the engine and remove the driver side wheel.
2. Remove the driver axle heat shield bolts [arrows]








3. Theres multiple ways to prepare the exhaust. I removed the two bolts that go into the subframe and loosely supported it on the catalytic converter, but this ended up putting too much stress on the flex pipe and breaking it. I would recommend just completely removing the catalytic converter by removing 4 nuts at exhaust manifold, 2 bolts at mid support point and the exhaust clamp at the resonator.
4. Remove the drive axles from the flange shafts. For me this was 6- 8mm triple square bolts on each side. I removed the driver side axle to make it easier to get the transmission out:
5. Screw 3 of the wheel bolts back into the rotor (without wheel on) and have someone step on the brake. Use the 27mm socket to remove the bolt holding the driver axle. I removed the bolt about half way and hit it with a hammer lightly a couple times to remove the spline shaft. Remove the driver axle and set to the side.
6. Remove the “pendulum support” bolts and dogbone [A,B,C]








7. Remove the transmission mount to transmission mount bracket bolts [Arrows]








8. Now you want to CAREFULLY lower the engine at a tilted angle with the transmission at the lowest point. You will notice the engine still has a engine mount in on the passenger side. Make sure this mount doesn’t slide out because this will cause the whole engine to uncontrollably drop and fall to the ground. Pay attention to any lines/electrical wires while lowering the engine. You want to lower the engine enough to be able to see the 3 bolts on the side of the transmission mount bracket.
9. When the engine/transmission is low enough remove the 3 bolts [Arrows] and the transmission mount [A].








10. Remove the small cover plate [A] for the flywheel (if equipped) behind the right flange shaft








11. Remove the exhaust system brace [1] and bolt [Arrow] from transmission (my vehicle did not have this)








12. Remove lower nut + wire support bracket and then remove lower starter motor bolt. Remove starter motor and set to side.
13. Remove the 4 lower engine/transmission bolts. There will be 3 pretty visible when you are looking towards the passenger side of the vehicle. The fourth should be on the back of the transmission coming towards the drivers side of the vehicle.
-Removing the transmission
At this point in time there should be nothing holding the transmission to the engine other than the seal created at factory
My method for dropping the transmission was to place the engine hoist on the transmission side of the vehicle and wrap the chain around the transmission. I also had a jack on the VW symbol to make sure it wouldn’t randomly twist out of the chain.
Using a flat head screw driver you want to begin evenly prying the transmission away from the engine.
If you removed the driver axle you should be able to pull the transmission toward the drivers side of the vehicle enough to get it clear of the control arm and other various items that may be in the way.
At this time for me it was just a matter of having someone holding one side of the transmission to balance it and another releasing pressure from the engine hoist slowly
Step 3: Removing the timing covers:
-Locking the timing
1. Remove the connectors from the coil packs and then gently remove each of the coil packs. Set the coil packs to the side and move the rail of connectors out of the way.
2. Remove each of the valve cover bolts and pull up on the valve cover. This has a gasket under it so pay attention to the gasket when removing as to not destroy it. The bolts you removed have a plastic insert so they should stay with the timing cover. The two rear corner bolts are pins that hold the engine cover in place.
3. Spin the crankshaft in the direction noted ***(The guide says do not rotate the crankshaft backwards, not even slightly!)*** in the picture below until you can see the threaded holes on the camshafts.








4. Upon reaching TDC you will be able to lock the cam and crank in place. The cams require special tool T40070 and the crank requires T40069. You may need to move the crank forward to get the camshaft holes to align properly with the tool. If your camshaft holes do not align properly then you most likely have slipped timing and have a large project ahead of you including replacing valves and pistons. The crankshaft lock position is hidden behind a bolt on the rear passenger side of the engine. If you lay down below the engine you should feel it right above one of the mounting points for a lower engine support.

Camshaft lock position:








Crankshaft lock position:








-Removing Intake manifold:
Removal of the intake is unfortunately necessary to remove a steel pipe that runs in front of the upper timing cover.
Here’s a good DIY I followed when I ran into any problems. Biggest key of this that I didn’t realize is the #6 hex head that deep inside of the manifold that you will need to either fabricate a tool for or have a bunch of ¼” extenders for.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...DIY-2.5L-MKV-Intake-Manifold-Removal-Cleaning
-Remove other components blocking timing covers:
There is a coolant sensor housing and I believe a brake booster vacuum pump blocking you from removing the upper and lower timing cover.
1. Remove any rubber coolant houses blocking access to the timing covers. They will still contain liquid so I used a plastic bag to capture the remaining coolant when I disconnected the hoses.
2. The coolant sensor is held on by double layered bolts. Remove the nut and the accesory from the top of the bolt then remove the bolt. One of the bolts has a bracket for the metal pipe that runs under the intake. The pipe is held in one other place by a bolt (pictured below). Remove nut+bolt, then the plastic clip connecting the pipe to the t-stat housing, and pull the metal pipe out of the housing.








Location of mteal coolant pipe








Metal pipe front view








Double layered nut locations
3. The lower vacuum pump is powered by a midsprocket in the timing. It is held to the cover with 3-T30 Torx bolts (The extra top right was a mistake). Remove the three bolts, the vacuum line, the gasket and set to the side. (note: the bolts holding the device are not going thru the timing cover).








4. Removing clutch: 
First to remove the pressure plate/friction disc. These two are held to the flywheel by 9? 8mm triple square socket small bolts. Upon removing the bolts the two should come right off the flywheel.








After removing these two the you will notice the flywheel is held to the crank via 6-12mm triple square bolts. Remove all of the bolts and grab 1 or 2 large flat head screw drivers. You will need to evenly pry the flywheel from the output shaft. Careful, when the crank lets go of the flywheel finally it will drop. Try to have someone there to catch it.








5. Remove upper cable bracket: On the upper timing cover there is a bracket for holding wires. Remove gray+green+ground wire and then the two bolts holding the bracket to the cover.








-Timing Covers:
You should have everything removed that was blocking the timing covers now. If theres still items in the way, why the hell did you mount something to a timing cover?! Are you mental?? Or maybe I missed something. Anyway moving on.
1. Top cover is held down by 12 T30 torx bolts all along the front face of the cover. Remove the bolts and then remove the cover. The cover has a pipe running through it for the coolant sensor housing. You may have to use a flat head again to evenly pry the cover from the head as RTV will be sealing the two together.
2. The lower timing cover is held in place by a number of 10mm triple square socket bolts and 4 T30 torx bolts on the upper side. One of the T30’s is on the outside of the upper cover and the others are covered by the upper cover, so it has to be removed first to gain access. The lower cover will pretty much defintely needs to be pryed away. This is a very large aluminum plate that can easily be bent or cracked. Theres multiple positions you will find for placing a flat head screwdriver between to pry by the block and plate. Use as many places as possible as to not ruin the cover.
-Replacing timing components:
Do not continue on to this point unless your cam and crankshaft are properly locked in place or you will lose timing and be screwed. I labeled key components, RTV surfaces, and replaced timing parts below. !!!When installing timing components with pins, do not remove the pin until the chain is in place and all of the slack is in front of the part that is receiving tension!!!! Theres two reasons this is necessary. First you want all of the tension in front of the guide that will be receiving pressure, this will make it so when you release the locks for crank and cam, no part of the timing will spin because the system will already be in tension. This also makes installing chains much easier, nothing worse than trying to fight getting a chain on while holding a tensioner from advancing. Another piece of advice is to thoroughly lubricate items as you place them in the engine. Any part of the guides or tensioners that touch the chains should be oiled. Notice also that some of the guides have ridges to prevent the chain from falling off, make sure when you are running the chain over these components that the chain is between the ridges.








1. Label the location of your variable valve timing. There is 4 holes in the back of the VVT device that allow oil to flow in changing the timing of the engine. If these do not allign properly on reassembly, your variable valve timing will not work. You should be able to do this with some sort of straight edge, pick a tooth and insert your straight edge into that tooth, mark on the head and the specific tooth for allignment
2. Remove both vvt cam sprocket and the basic cam sprocket.
3. This will open up the area behind the VVT and allow you to remove the chain. Compare it to the 2 chainz that you received in the timing kit to confirm which chain is your upper chain (my chains were not labeled upper and lower).
4. Remove the upper timing components and replace with new items. The lower tensioner on this component is only held by a removable pin and forced forward by a spring/oil pressure from the upper timing guide. The upper guide has a gasket due to the fact that it receives oil pressure from the head. 








Gasketed item
5. For the lower timing I removed the tensioner held by 3 bolts to remove tension from the system.
6. When you remove the tensioner you should be able to remove the front and lower guide. Replace these with new components.
7. Start with the lower timing chain. Start running the chain at the mid sprocket, run it along the long guide and down to what I believe is an oil pump, run it around the oil pump sprocket, lower small guide and then lastly the output of the crank. All of your slack should now be in front of the missing tensioner. Place the tensioner in place and push forward far enough to put the screws in place. Make sure after placing the tensioner there is little to no slack in the system. DO NOT PULL THE PIN YET. The image below shows what your trying to avoid. If you have slack like this in your chain, start over. There should be no slack in the line other than in front of where the tensioners will be.








8. Now for the upper timing. Same procedure except finish with the sprocket that doesn’t have the VVT on it. So the sequence for upper will be VVT sprocket, front guide, mid sprocket, tensioner, and then place the sprocket on the back cam.
9. Tighten both of the cam sprockets down. As long as you have everything locked down, guides in place, and very little slack in the system, you should be able to now remove the pins from each of the tensioners. You will notice the chain system has no slack in it now.
10. Now is a good time to confirm the timing was done correctly. Remove your two locks and spin the engine in the direction previously noted. I used the pulley on the accessory belt side. I previously used the clutch side but the direction you have to move the crank loosens the bolts on the clutch. Spin the crank 720 degrees and make sure that both of the locks engage in the same place. If you have spun the crank two full rotations (one will place the cam shafts locking holes downward) and both of your locking tools go back into place, you have done timing correctly. If not, you have a bit of a mess on your hands.
-Closing everything back up:
1. Clean the gasket surfaces well, I used a metal brush to remove all of the previous RTV. Clean both sides of the mating surface, upper+lower timing cover and head+engine block. After this I used a toothbrush to coat the guides and chains in oil, so upon first startup your not starting dry.
2. Lower timing cover first. Cover the gasket surface with about an 1/8” bead of RTV all the way around. When placing the cover back on the block, you will have to start with the bottom, tap it on good enough that the crank output is supporting it. Here’s the tricky part: the head gasket has a section that goes between this cover and the head. The first time I place the lower cover I ended up pinching the head gasket and warping it so it was very difficult to get to stay between the cover and head. You may want to have a second person to help with this because when you place the cover on the lower section the head gasket tends to want to come out of place. So having someone right there to hold the gasket in place is very useful. Make sure the 4 T30 bolts that go into the top of the cover will go into their mating holes before putting all of the lower triple square sockets in place.
3. Other than this everything its pretty much just reverse order. Replace gaskets that you feel may be necessary. Only other trick I used was for putting the intake back in place. I used a piece of tape to hold the bolt that’s impossible to get to in place. This makes it so you can move the intake into the proper location and have the bolt sitting there ready to go, make sure you don’t cover the head of the bolt! When putting the clutch back in, don’t forget to use the grease on the transmission shaft spline that should have come with the clutch kit. You will want to replace your oil after doing this also to remove any metal shavings, plastic bits, etc from the new parts you put in. One last notable thing is when you are placing the injectors back in to the manifold, I took them out of the fuel rail and placed each individually. I used a rag on top of the injector and a block of wood on top of the rag to extend the reach and tapped the top of the wood block until the injector went in all the way. They go in probably a ¼” so make sure theyre all the way in.*


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

Awesome thread! a DIY was much needed. Definitely saving this one.


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## LangMKV (Oct 1, 2012)

Hope I didn't miss it somewhere, but how many km/ miles did you do this at? I'm running around 209K km. Everything running great, I've never even done the clutch as it shifts fine. I've been contemplating this for a few thousand km's now. 


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## KurwaMac (Sep 25, 2011)

I think what it really comes down to is whether the engine code is BGP or BGQ. At least from what I've read. The timing chains are rated by VW to outlast the life of the engine so I'm not sure they give a timespan on when they should be replaced. I did mine on my BGP engine after 130k miles (not sure/dont care to look what that converts into for km). You can see in the pictures that even after 130k on the BFP engine (which is supposed to be the worse design) the rails were not superbly worn. I think if you want to be careful a good time to do the chain is 90k-120k miles.


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## Gizmo79 (Oct 6, 2016)

Sorry to bring back such an old thread.

I have an 07 rabbit that has a lower timing chain cover that needs to be replaced. The shop I took it to said that the head has to be pulled to replace the timing chain cover. They also want to replace the engine because it would be cheaper than pulling the head labor wise. I looked at the diagrams for it and this does not seem right. Can some one confirm weather or not the head has to be pulled to replace this cover.

Thanks


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

Gizmo79 said:


> Sorry to bring back such an old thread.
> 
> I have an 07 rabbit that has a lower timing chain cover that needs to be replaced. The shop I took it to said that the head has to be pulled to replace the timing chain cover. They also want to replace the engine because it would be cheaper than pulling the head labor wise. I looked at the diagrams for it and this does not seem right. Can some one confirm weather or not the head has to be pulled to replace this cover.
> 
> Thanks


Is it cracked? For the lower timing cover, the transmission needs to be removed, and the upper cover needs to be removed to access a few bolts. 

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## Gizmo79 (Oct 6, 2016)

killerbunny said:


> Is it cracked? For the lower timing cover, the transmission needs to be removed, and the upper cover needs to be removed to access a few bolts.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


yes its cracked


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

Gizmo79 said:


> yes its cracked


Sorry to hear that. But they won't need to remove the head, just want was stated above. 

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## Gizmo79 (Oct 6, 2016)

Any precautions on the gasket? I know the head sticks out over the side of the block a bit.


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

Gizmo79 said:


> Any precautions on the gasket? I know the head sticks out over the side of the block a bit.


For the head gasket, just make sure you don't pinch it, and line up all the bolt holes from the upper cover to the lower cover. You could add a little sealant if you want. 

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## Gizmo79 (Oct 6, 2016)

killerbunny said:


> For the head gasket, just make sure you don't pinch it, and line up all the bolt holes from the upper cover to the lower cover. You could add a little sealant if you want.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


Thanks a million


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## Vwspen3310 (Oct 25, 2010)

Thank you for this incredibly detailed timing chain DIY! I wouldn't have been able to piece this procedure together without this guide. I would like to offer a couple edits to the guide that I found when changing the timing chains, guides and tensioners on my 2007 VW rabbit to help anyone else who might be doing this. 



KurwaMac said:


> 1. Label the location of your variable valve timing. There is 4 holes in the back of the VVT device that allow oil to flow in changing the timing of the engine. If these do not allign properly on reassembly, your variable valve timing will not work. You should be able to do this with some sort of straight edge, pick a tooth and insert your straight edge into that tooth, mark on the head and the specific tooth for allignment.
> 2. Remove both vvt cam sprocket and the basic cam sprocket.


I am wondering if the only sprocket that needs to be removed is the "basic" cam sprocket, not the VVT. I was deep into this job and just following the guide, so I never tried only removing the basic cam sprocket at this point. The reason I think this is that some of the timing chain kits I see online have the option to include the cam bolt for the "basic" cam sprocket, but have no provision for the VVT cam bolt, making me think it was left tight during this procedure. However, if the cam lock tool is in place and you have marked the appropriate tooth on the cam gear, it won't hurt anything to loosen it up. 



KurwaMac said:


> 7. Start with the lower timing chain. Start running the chain at the mid sprocket, run it along the long guide and down to what I believe is an oil pump, run it around the oil pump sprocket, lower small guide and then lastly the output of the crank. All of your slack should now be in front of the missing tensioner. Place the tensioner in place and push forward far enough to put the screws in place. Make sure after placing the tensioner there is little to no slack in the system. DO NOT PULL THE PIN YET. The image below shows what your trying to avoid. If you have slack like this in your chain, start over. There should be no slack in the line other than in front of where the tensioners will be.


This is where I started to deviate from the instructions. I had a crank lock pin installed to hold the crank at TDC, so I wasn't worried about the engine turning and losing timing on me. On my first try, I followed the guide and assembled the lower chain with what I thought was all the slack in front of the tensioner, and I left the pin in the tensioner until I had the upper chain installed and the cams tightened. I then went back down to the lower chain and noticed that in the process of tightening the cam bolts, the upper chain had shifted, causing the "mid sprocket" to shift, in turn moving my slack on my lower chain. So, this got me thinking. I loosened the cam bolts back up and put the pin back in the upper and lower tensioners, as the chains were not how they were supposed to be. I took the upper chain off and just focused on the lower chain. The crank is locked at TDC. The oil pump doesn't care what tooth it lands on, neither does the mid sprocket. This means that once the lower guides, chain and tensioner are installed WITH NO SPECIFIC ATTENTION PAYED TO WHERE THE SLACK IS, the pin on the tensioner should be pulled. It will automatically move the chain slack to the front of the tensioner as the oil pump gear turns, and the mid sprocket turns with the crank locked at TDC. The mid sprocket is an idler, and its orientation is non-critical. Now that the lower chain is tight and the tensioner pin is pulled, the mid sprocket is now locked because the crank is locked and the lower chain is tight. This allows for the upper chain to be assembled without having slop from the lower chain messing with the VVT alignment mark that you made. 



KurwaMac said:


> 8. Now for the upper timing. Same procedure except finish with the sprocket that doesn’t have the VVT on it. So the sequence for upper will be VVT sprocket, front guide, mid sprocket, tensioner, and then place the sprocket on the back cam.


Again, do the lower chain first, pull the pin on the lower chain after all lower guides, chains and tensioners are in BEFORE any upper chain is installed. After the upper guides, chain and tensioner have been installed, as long as the VVT mark has been lined up to the reference you made before disassembly, I would say to pull the pin immediately (with the VVT and "basic" cam sprockets installed with the bolts loose). This will automatically pull most of the slack towards the tensioner, just like my comment on the lower chain. No need to "work" the slack towards the tensioner.

I have also seen a reference to needing to preload the upper chain using the "basic" cam sprocket. The "basic" cam sprocket has 4 holes in it which is supposedly for a tool that would hook in, and allow for you to twist the cam sprocket to force all of the chain slack towards the upper tensioner. This preload would occur WHILE the upper cam bolt on the "basic" cam sprocket is being tightened so that the preload is held. This would also occur while the VVT sprocket is installed but loose (this negates my previous comment about not having to remove the VVT sprocket, I'm just throwing ideas out there). A certain amount of this preloading will occur naturally when the cam bolts are tightened back up, I'm just noting that there is a possibility that a procedure change could be warranted. This also might mean to pay attention to which cam you tighten first upon reassembly. My guess might be something like: Snug the VVT first, then snug the "basic" cam bolt, then perform the 90° extra torque stage on the VVT, then perform it on the basic bolt to try to work the chain slack towards the tensioner, and hold the tension between the mid sprocket, VVT and basic cam gear.

So, overall for the installation procedure, I would say: 1. install lower guides, chain and tensioner, pull the pin (so long as the crank is locked). 2. Install upper guides, chain and tensioner, pull the pin (so long as the cam lock tool is installed and the cam gears are installed but loose) 3. tighten the cam sprockets while paying attention to any upper chain slack. 4. continue the procedure as written.


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## Timbert (Jul 22, 2017)

*Physical inspection to determine timing chain skip?*

I wanted to do a physical inspection of the timing without too much disassembly. 2010 2.5 CBT motor with 131k, compression all between 125 and 135 psi, car starts and idles (poorly) stalling after about ten seconds. I reset the codes but can't run the motor long enough to obtain new ones, but I recall the intake phase was 18 degrees when the limit is like 4. After troubleshooting other issues, I pulled the cam cover and plugs, rotated the crank until the pulley marks lined up, and see that while the cams are in sync with each other they are NOT level with the head. I have done chains on 2.0T but this is my first 2.5.

Can I conclude that the lower timing chain has skipped? There is a somewhat messy run of gasket sealer on the upper chain cover so I'm pretty sure someone's been in there before.

Can anyone confirm my best bet is to drop the transmission and redo this upper and lower timing chain job? Or can I just assume the problem is with the top chain tensioner and just replace the necessary upper parts (tensioner and guides) avoiding the major hassle of transmission separation? Thanks in advance.

Photos of crank pulley mark and cams below.


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## Timbert (Jul 22, 2017)

I've answered some of my own questions and the news is not good.

I pulled the upper timing chain cover and everything looks good on the upper chain, guides and tensioner. However the top of the lower chain has metal shavings and some scrape marks you can see in the first photo. Also, what you can't see as well, in the second photo, is the scarring on the engine case just in front of the idler sprocket (the one that holds both upper and lower chains). That's where the chain skipped. The engine block has millimeter-deep gouge marks on it. That proves it was the lower chain that skipped, and it skipped on the uppermost sprocket.

If you look at the original poster's photos you'll see that top sprocket for the lower chain has the chain wrapped around 3/4 of the way around, whereas on the crank sprocket it only contacts about half. That's odd, as I would think it would skip where there was less contact, although that top sprocket is where the resistance to turning is so maybe that explains it.

Anyway, looks like I'll be dropping the trans and replacing all the lower chain guides, tensioner and chain. Frustrating for me but hope this helps others with diagnosis and troubleshooting.


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## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

got the same problem here, on a 2006 BGP
the cams are a little bit off
but the engine is running, it is just not a nice regular idle, it misses a little bit but no fault codes


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## Armagon (Apr 19, 2004)

i can tell you now that the problem is solved, the timing was a bit off but there was no code.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

I know its an old thread but how do you know which chain is stretched on these engines?


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## Timbert (Jul 22, 2017)

On mine it was the lower chain. I'm not saying it was stretched, but it did skip a tooth and I replaced both upper and lower chains, guides and tensioners. Running great over a year later now.


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## scubieman (Jun 3, 2020)

Timbert said:


> On mine it was the lower chain. I'm not saying it was stretched, but it did skip a tooth and I replaced both upper and lower chains, guides and tensioners. Running great over a year later now.


Where did you get the parts from? Hope to get this cheaper.


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## Timbert (Jul 22, 2017)

It was a VW dealer selling on Amazon, I paid $182 for what I replaced. On Ebay at the time there was a kit with both chains and other guides for $312 but I only replaced what I needed to.


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## zonny420 (Jun 7, 2020)

"Removing Intake manifold: Removal of the intake is unfortunately necessary to remove a steel pipe that runs in front of the upper timing cover. Here’s a good DIY I followed when I ran into any problems. Biggest key of this that I didn’t realize is the #6 hex head that deep inside of the manifold that you will need to either fabricate a tool for or have a bunch of �” extenders for."

It is not necessary to remove the intake to remove the steal pipe. With the radiator core support off and throttle body off there is a small amount of room where you can get a flat screwdriver in and "flick" the U clip out. Reinstalling is where it get a bit more difficult... I used a piece of stiff wire to place the U clip back in place, then with the long flat screwdriver I reached in over/beside the alternator and pushed the clip down to lock it back in. 
Now this is what worked for me. I found it to be faster then removing the intake on my 05.5 Jetta with a VVT sprocket that came loose


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Thanks, this was a big help. Your procedure worked out very well, no problems. All slack out and very tight chain.

Some comments that may help others. My kit didn't have new cam bolts, I reused the old ones and they didn't break. I did 44 ft/lbs first and then plus 90 degrees on the cam bolts. Must say getting the old bolts out took an extreme amount of torque. 
After removing the upper tensioner assembly I noticed a small screen filter in the head casting that feeds oil. I removed this screen and cleaned it out, found two little specks of black junk. If that filter was filled with junk I am sure the tensioner would not be putting full pressure on the chain. 
The special crank locking pin was a little tricky to get into the hole in the crank. I think if the chain is worn much this throws off the hole in the crank a little if your have the cams locked. The crank locking pin tool will thread into the hole about all the way when the crank is positioned right on TDC. 



Vwspen3310 said:


> Again, do the lower chain first, pull the pin on the lower chain after all lower guides, chains and tensioners are in BEFORE any upper chain is installed. After the upper guides, chain and tensioner have been installed, as long as the VVT mark has been lined up to the reference you made before disassembly, I would say to pull the pin immediately (with the VVT and "basic" cam sprockets installed with the bolts loose). This will automatically pull most of the slack towards the tensioner, just like my comment on the lower chain. No need to "work" the slack towards the tensioner.
> 
> I have also seen a reference to needing to preload the upper chain using the "basic" cam sprocket. The "basic" cam sprocket has 4 holes in it which is supposedly for a tool that would hook in, and allow for you to twist the cam sprocket to force all of the chain slack towards the upper tensioner. This preload would occur WHILE the upper cam bolt on the "basic" cam sprocket is being tightened so that the preload is held. This would also occur while the VVT sprocket is installed but loose (this negates my previous comment about not having to remove the VVT sprocket, I'm just throwing ideas out there). A certain amount of this preloading will occur naturally when the cam bolts are tightened back up, I'm just noting that there is a possibility that a procedure change could be warranted. This also might mean to pay attention to which cam you tighten first upon reassembly. My guess might be something like: Snug the VVT first, then snug the "basic" cam bolt, then perform the 90° extra torque stage on the VVT, then perform it on the basic bolt to try to work the chain slack towards the tensioner, and hold the tension between the mid sprocket, VVT and basic cam gear.
> 
> So, overall for the installation procedure, I would say: 1. install lower guides, chain and tensioner, pull the pin (so long as the crank is locked). 2. Install upper guides, chain and tensioner, pull the pin (so long as the cam lock tool is installed and the cam gears are installed but loose) 3. tighten the cam sprockets while paying attention to any upper chain slack. 4. continue the procedure as written.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

So it looks like I will be needing to tackle this finally.

Right now though it's kinda frustrating trying to find the timing tools. Anyone know a good source for the cam and crank locks? Also trying to find the tool for applying the preload to the exhaust sprocket.

Also....how much of a specialty item are the tensioner locking pins? Do those have a specific tool number?

Also, is a special adapter needed for rotating the crankshaft there on the picture?


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## Timbert (Jul 22, 2017)

I recall getting a kit on Amazon for around $50. I use my 2.0T kit way more often but it was around the same price.


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## sneedham6 (May 9, 2010)

Timbert said:


> I recall getting a kit on Amazon for around $50. I use my 2.0T kit way more often but it was around the same price.


Yeah I ended up finding that set.

Still wondering if theres a ghetto way to turn the crankshaft or do you need the adapter?

I'm weighing buying the timing tools and lower chain parts vs buying a used engine with about 50,000kms. My engine is at 204,000 right now.

I would love to find the timing tools used on a forum.but no luck and I hate the thought of buying one time use tools.


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## Timbert (Jul 22, 2017)

I think I pulled the spark plugs and turned the crank using a triple square socket in one of the pulley bolts on the other side of the motor.


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## WtErKeWlEdUbbEr (Jun 20, 2005)

Seems to me like I’d rather find a later model 2.5 with lower mileage than what I have and swap the motor. Now a days 2.5/ can be found for less than $500. Might also be less hours to do. 


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