# Throttle Body took a crap - Replacement question



## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

Throttle body took a crap on me today. Driving a bit spiritedly, came to a stop sign, and idle was horrible. Pulled over in a parking lot and it could barely stay on. I had misfire codes and P1545 for malfunction. Tried doing a throttle body alignment but it failed and caused more codes







So then I just unplug the wiring harness from the TB, wait a few seconds, plug it back in. Go back, do an alignment and it succeeds. Clear all codes, turn off car, attempt to crank, and it works. Idle is fine, drives fine.
However, on the way home, i noticed the idle was high...it was idling at lights at 900 and would climb up to 1000 where is stayed. Under load the car drove fine. Vacuum at idle is -17 or so, so a bit off from normal (-22).
Now I dont have any TB codes, but I have P0507 idle rpm higher than expected.
So it looks like I need a new TB. My question to you is can the TB be replaced without removing the intake manifold. I've removed that thing once and its a PITA. I would imagine it would be a b*tch to get some of the back bolts off the TB but it would be doable. Am I correct on this assumption?


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

That sucks dude i feel your pain on the removal of the intake manifold.. why they made it so hard to remove it, I have no idea.


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

*Re: Throttle Body took a crap - Replacement question (staulkor)*

It really is a PITA to remove the manifold! 
Do you think your TB failure has any relation to use of W/M?
Good Luck


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

You can replace the TB without removing the intake manifold. In fact, removing the TB is one of the steps required for removing the intake manifold.
Dave


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*

My intake manifold came off perfectly fine without removing the throttle body. Anyway, thanks for confirming it can come out much easier than I thought.


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

*Re: Throttle Body took a crap - Replacement question (staulkor)*

Removing the tb is super easy if you take the time to pull the front bumper and loosen the rad support and pull forward like in the apr intercooler install diy. It still could be done just by removing the tb pipe but it you want an easier route try that.


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

*Re: Throttle Body took a crap - Replacement question (IMAN973)*

sounds like a great excuse to get a bigger t/b


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## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

*Re: Throttle Body took a crap - Replacement question (Joeydabomb)*

Would you mind telling me how to make a bigger tb work, or even where to get one....
I already have one and it will be released soon. Its not as easy as one would think


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## h0ckeyfreek20 (Aug 22, 2008)

id invest in a throttle body with upgraded flapper valve that could handle methanol


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

Quick update.
Got the new to me throttle body from a guy on golfmkv for $50+overnight shipping. Got here in less than 24 hours







Good job USPS, I think that is the first time they have done something right for me, lol.
Anyways, getting the TB off the manifold while the mani is still on the car is a bitch. Not as bad as I thought, but definitely a pain.
Once I had mine off, I was opening and closing the plate on the new one and it had some resistance to being opened from the servo and gears and would automatically snap back closed. On my original one, I pushed the plate with the same strength and it opened about 10% and then stopped. I had to then push _really_ hard to open it any further. I got it opened all the way, then let go, and it went to about 80% open and stopped. This is exactly what happened when it failed. I was WOT on some back twisty roads and when I let off WOT, it got stuck. When I pulled over, I checked with vagcom and it was at 83% open...*at idle*, lol.
Anyway, I pushed it all the way closed, then opened it to say 25-35% open to simulate normal acceleration. When I let go, it closed mostly, but wasnt all the way shut. I'd say maybe 5-8% open. This is why when I first turned the car on, my idle was fine, but after I say drive to the mall or whatever, when I would get to my destination, the idle would be messed up at around 1000 rpm and vacuum would be at 15-16.
*A NOTE ABOUT METHANOL*
Meth had nothing to do with this failure. The plate is not corroded, discolored, damaged, in any way, shape, or form. It a bit dirty, but what inside this engine isnt (thanks pcv).
The pivot points on the valve look to be completely sealed away from the electronics. I would sure hope the TB has the electronics completely sealed away from the elements...it only makes sense to do so.
Also, the failure is most like related to the gears failing. I have a suspicion the gears for the servo are PLASTIC and have failed. There is a rattling noise in the failed TB and is not present in the new one. Unfortunately, VDO/Siemens has put epoxy in one of the bolt heads so I cant disassemble the electronics side until I cut a line with my dremel. Ill update once I have done that, most likely tonight.
I have had meth going through this valve for almost 40k miles. I am almost certain it had nothing to do with it and that meth will not greatly contribute to throttle bodies failing all of a sudden.
If my suspicions are correct about the plastic gears, that seems like a much more plausible reason as to why throttle bodies fail. That or an electronic gremlin


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

I got around to disassembling the TB. The gears are in fact plastic with the exception being the gear on the motor which is metal. There is a red gear that controls the butterfly valve and has a coil spring under it to close the valve when the motor lets off. My first conclusion is the spring failed, but that is not the case. I unhooked the spring so the gear was free of the spring, and it is still very difficult to move. It appears the bearing (ball or journal, I cant disassemble any more to find out) has failed on me. Much to my dismay, I hate to admit that meth *may* have contributed to the failure, but there really isnt any way to prove this.
The best thing I can say about meth and throttle bodies is that meth will definitely increase the likelihood of a failure, but it really isn't something to be concerned about, but let it be known it more than likely contributes.
On another note, replacing my TB has resolved two other issues seemingly unrelated.
I've had numerous "too rich at idle" codes for many months. I tried many fixes and swapped sensors but got nowhere. Fast forward to now and I have a new TB. I have driven 130 miles with the new TB and the CEL hasn't come on yet. The CEL normally comes on within 20 miles of driving! So as of now, it looks like this issue is gone. I am definitely getting better mileage too.
Another issue that has been resolved is my "cold start stalls." Yea, it sounds bad because it is, lol. When I would start the car in the morning, about 50% of the time it would turn on, idle for a few seconds, then misfire it self to death and stall. If I cranked again, the same thing would happen. The third time cranking it would stay on and resume normal operation and pretend like nothing ever happened. A fix I discovered was to hold the throttle and keep the rpm around 1500 for 10-15 seconds and that would make the engine not misfire or stall. Now that I know what was wrong with my TB, it makes perfect sense. The throttle was stuck open slightly. More air than expected was entering the engine which caused misfires and eventually stalled the motor. With me opening the throttle more, the ecu would now expect the extra air flow and in turn add the required fuel, etc.
Who knew a dead/dying throttle could affect so many things!


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (staulkor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *staulkor* »_ It appears the bearing (ball or journal, I cant disassemble any more to find out) has failed on me. Much to my dismay, I hate to admit that meth *may* have contributed to the failure, but there really isnt any way to prove this.
The best thing I can say about meth and throttle bodies is that meth will definitely increase the likelihood of a failure, but it really isn't something to be concerned about, but let it be known it more than likely contributes.


Just run a winterized type WW fluid the ones that has "danger" all on the label like im doing , you will get the cooling effect you need IMO.
Good that it worked out your other issues with the TB change.







Bob.G


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## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

*Re: (staulkor)*

great thread! 
Thanks for sharing this and educating me at the same time.
Enjoy the mobile in good health. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

Pics for clicks. Just pulled this off my phone, took it this morning. Just in case you were curious as to what is under that cover


















_Modified by staulkor at 11:44 PM 3-10-2010_


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

it has been a few months, has the too rich at idle issue come back at all?


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

x2 :beer: I think TB is one of those "sleeper problems" on this motor. Great information here.. you just helped me out a bunch as I've had that "too rich at idle" code for a while also.. (no w/m installed) My mechanic considered the TB as a culprit, but I had to deploy again before checking that out. Great job, and thanks for sharing!  :thumbup:


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

joeyvdubGLI said:


> x2 :beer: I think TB is one of those "sleeper problems" on this motor. Great information here.. you just helped me out a bunch as I've had that "too rich at idle" code for a while also.. considered the TB as a culprit, but had to deploy again before digging in! Great job, and thanks! :thumbup:


so did you change the TB too to solve your too rich at itle code?


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

No not yet it was next in line to try, but I left home before getting to it. I'm out of the country for another 5 months, will get that done when I get back.. will post results when complete..


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## vwguy13 (Oct 5, 2008)

would the 1.8t throttle body fit the 2.0 fsi ?


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## amckernon1028 (Apr 14, 2009)

IMAN973 said:


> Would you mind telling me how to make a bigger tb work, or even where to get one....
> I already have one and it will be released soon. Its not as easy as one would think


I have been wondering when you were going to start selling this part? You seem to have a lot of technical knowledge on the inner mechanics of the FSI.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

vwguy13 said:


> would the 1.8t throttle body fit the 2.0 fsi ?


Unfortunately no.
How many of you have damaged throttle bodies?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

i think mine is starting to act up... I thought it was from my meth, but now that i think about it, it started closing up a bit a few months back.

this last time I was passing on the highway and gave the car about 50% throttle. built boost to 18 PSI, then settled to like 10 PSI, held that for a few seconds then it went down to zero or maybe even into vac and then back up. I barely felt much of a drop in power as I wasnt trying to pull hard, but my boost gauge showed the drop and my Meth controller stopped the spray. :banghead:

if im going to replace this bitch, its going to need to be bulletproof and mated to a nice manifold. :beer:


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## vwguy13 (Oct 5, 2008)

i agree


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## [email protected] (Aug 21, 2008)

We have replaced 2 within the last 6 weeks, I found it strange too. Hence, we started keeping these in stock.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

Krieger said:


> if im going to replace this bitch, its going to need to be bulletproof and mated to a nice manifold. :beer:


 LOL i wish you the best of luck sir, and when you have your "bulletproof" TB bump this thread up with your findings.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

why wont one off another VAG car work, down the road? I mean, if it can read the same signal, and fits, why cant we tune for it? 

are any aftermarket companies even seriously working on this stuff? I saw INA say something about it, but nothing more. just like porting the heads and telling us flow rates and stuff. 


:banghead:


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

It is possible that issam got held up by other things while he was full steam ahead on the fsi stuff don't you think?? Other oem options may work but then open the wrong way and the car will run like garbage and haven't we gone over the custom tuning issue? No one is going to custom tune one thing for one car.. You're on your own past 500hp if you ask me... At least that's how I feel. It's all about the money and it turns out no one cares about this platform past selling turbo kits and boltons/tuning for stock turbo cars because that's where the money's at.


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

I will be upgrading my TB soon, just waiting for the custom intake manifold to be ready. Any ideas on what TB can work? My tuner told me that he can make a flapless file for this to be done.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

Serrari said:


> I will be upgrading my TB soon, just waiting for the custom intake manifold to be ready. Any ideas on what TB can work? My tuner told me that he can make a flapless file for this to be done.


 Serrari I sent you a PM regarding the throttle plate issue.. Please see about checking it and I'd like to hear a response. I have some insight into this.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

Serrari said:


> I will be upgrading my TB soon, just waiting for the custom intake manifold to be ready. Any ideas on what TB can work? My tuner told me that he can make a flapless file for this to be done.


 Little teaser  

You will need a set of these to get more air into the engine :what:


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

rracerguy717 said:


> Little teaser
> 
> You will need a set of these to get more air into the engine :what:


 Are those the schrick


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

LEWXCORE said:


> Are those the schrick


 No 

They will be around 1/2 the price of schricks as shown . 

Will give more details once I receive them , working on option so you wont ever have to replace the follower again  Bob.G


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

rracerguy717 said:


> No
> 
> They will be around 1/2 the price of schricks as shown .
> 
> Will give more details once I receive them , working on option so you wont ever have to replace the follower again  Bob.G


 sweet cause i would never buy the schricks for what it's worth. are they more aggressive


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

LEWXCORE said:


> sweet cause i would never buy the schricks for what it's worth. are they more aggressive


 Looking at them visually they look LESS aggressive , but until they are received and rolled/ measured on a cam doctor its just a guess. Cams can be tricky and less aggressive most of the time means more power area under the curve with little to no loss of low end power and thats what im looking for my next level of mods. .  Bob.G 

p.s. 

There is also and option presently for more lift on the HPFP lobe for those needing 20-30% more flow from there HPFP .:what:


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

rracerguy717 said:


> Little teaser
> 
> You will need a set of these to get more air into the engine :what:


 I have the schrick cams installed.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

rracerguy717 said:


> Looking at them visually they look LESS aggressive , but until they are received and rolled/ measured on a cam doctor its just a guess. Cams can be tricky and less aggressive most of the time means more power area under the curve with little to no loss of low end power and thats what im looking for my next level of mods. .  Bob.G
> 
> p.s.
> 
> There is also and option presently for more lift on the HPFP lobe for those needing 20-30% more flow from there HPFP .:what:


 it's all about top end on these front wheel drive piece of sh!ts... fock area under the curve...


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## vwguy13 (Oct 5, 2008)

good stuff


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

Going back to the TB issue.. maybe something to consider here.. 

OP was Serrari... your information may help these guys here with TB concerns, hope you don't mind me sharing your injector thread. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4991112-Stock-vs-S3-vs-RS4-injectors-SOME-GOOD-INFO


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

LEWXCORE said:


> It is possible that issam got held up by other things while he was full steam ahead on the fsi stuff don't you think??.


:thumbup:


Now back to full steam ahead. It is possible to get a throttle body upgrade but it would require reflashing of the vehicle. If you are on APR software then I am sure something can be worked out .....or buy a new one from the dealer every 2 months


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

I will try the Porsche Cayenne Turbo TB and let you know if it works.


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## DeMarco (Jan 28, 2007)

I wonder if this is possibly indirectly related, maybe something to consider:

"Throttle Body Area" - Courtesy of *Jalas*:









*Reference:*
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/334489-RS4-Intake-Manifold-Carbon-Build-Up-amp-Clean-Up


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> 
> Now back to full steam ahead. It is possible to get a throttle body upgrade but it would require reflashing of the vehicle. If you are on APR software then I am sure something can be worked out .....or buy a new one from the dealer every 2 months


any more info coming down the line any time soon? I am thinking mine is getting worse. :banghead:


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

Krieger said:


> any more info coming down the line any time soon? I am thinking mine is getting worse. :banghead:


x2487646758


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## joeyvdubGLI (Jan 12, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We have replaced 2 within the last 6 weeks, I found it strange too. Hence, we started keeping these in stock.


Non-OEM replacement? Do you have a link or part number of your replacement part?

Ok I answered my own question.. Phrase of the decade, "Google-it" 

http://www.statracing.com/oem-repla...l=JET-GLI-005&category=All&part=Throttle+Body

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2006/volkswagen/jetta/fuel_injection/throttle_body.html


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Hold tight


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## vwguy13 (Oct 5, 2008)

lol k im holding


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

I want to start a list.
We can get the tuning sorted but we need a confirmed list as to how many of you are down for a metal impeller throttle body.

1. Issam Abed


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

1. Issam Abed
2. Krieger (make something built in that can mist WM alot better than the nozzles that come with other kits!!!)


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## bacardicj151 (Dec 9, 2007)

I think I need to watch this thread


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

subbed (and i dont even have a FSI  )


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