# Guess it's time to ask, ABA Turbo complete, having problems.



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Alright guys, for the last 9 or so months I've been building my mk3's ABA and I finished it about a week ago.

Build thread in the Mk3 forum. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5240097-AJmustDIE-s-ABA-Turbo-Build-Thread/



















I'll start with the setup.

Engine:
OBDII stock bottom end.
OBDI head, built with every TT component. (HD springs, Ti retainers, high-flo valves, the works)
TT 276 cam with 114 lobe centers.
9:1 spacer.
Mk4 AEG Intake manifold.
GT2876r, full boost (around 14 right now) just after 4000. Air/water intercooled.
3" downpipe, turbo back exhaust to a magnaflow in the back.

Software/fueling/spark
C2 Stage 2 42#
3" MAF
Bosch 440cc Green Giants.
NGK copper V-power gapped at .028

Trans/shifting
Passat 16v o2a, CES code.
o2j shift box and tower.

I'm having a very, very weird problem.
First of all the car refuses to hold an idle. It will die after seconds of no throttle play. Also something noticed recently is I pulled the number 4 plug wire off the distributor with no change in how the engine ran. But that cylinder's plug was black with a clean electrode and looks like it had been firing fine, switched it with a new plug, same thing. The plug wires are absolutely 100% in the right order.

I have -09 to -10 vacuum at idle, I think this should definitely be higher, I have checked for vacuum leaks but I suppose I could do another run down. I just don't want to run the motor if it is indeed only on 3 cylinders or something like that.

Car reads 10-11 AFR at idle but reads 14-14.8 while at regular road speeds/rpms.

I have more information, I'm just tired at the moment. Will get back to this tomorrow, 

Thanks for any/all replies.


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## 206danebmx (May 16, 2001)

How is your ignition timing at idle? Sounds like it might be super retarderd, hence the low vacuum levels.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

generic chip tune wont idle properly with a cam that big. raise the idle settings (lemmiwinks or vag-com)

(vac will be low due to being pig rich)

is the maf sensor pointing the right way?
whats your base fuel pressure?
did you do a TBA?
new CTS?
whats o2 trim at idle? (should be almost zero, if its not you probably have a maf or o2 problem)


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

206danebmx said:


> How is your ignition timing at idle? Sounds like it might be super retarderd, hence the low vacuum levels.


I was thinking somewhat of the same, maybe I'm a tooth off on the intermediate shaft? 



TBT-Syncro said:


> generic chip tune wont idle properly with a cam that big. raise the idle settings (lemmiwinks or vag-com)
> 
> (vac will be low due to being pig rich)
> 
> ...


I was thinking about raising the idle, but I don't think anybody around me has a vagcom, I will check though.
The MAF is in the right way,
I'm not sure about fuel pressure, I know it fine because AFR's don't come out of 11's at WOT.
I have not done a TBA, I was told it would work it's self out over so many cold starts. How do I go about doing one?
CTS???
And o2 trim?  The o2 sensor is new, the maf is not.


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

So, I'm thinking I am indeed one tooth off on the intermediate shaft.

Engine shown at TDC.









Distributor view.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

By the looks of your distributor rotor button and all, you may be slightly off, but not necessarily a tooth off. You should be able to loosen the 13mm holding the distributor down and roll it back to line that mark up and compensate for the timing. 

But not sure that's gonna fix your issue. Being off that slight bit will hurt performance since the timing is off. But the car should still run, idle and create vacuum. My distributor is set close to that if not more on my big-cam JH motor and there is no issues with it staying running. Just cams really hard and has low vacuum at idle. 

You definitely need to get the throttle position adapted first!! Easiest way to attempt to set this without VagCom is to unhook the battery and let it sit a little bit. Hook it back up and turn the key on and let it sit for a few minutes. Turn it back off and then back on......you should hear the stepper motor in the throttle body go through a sweep and that will initiate basic adaption. Worked on mine......but if it doesn't sweep, then you may be looking at a bad T/B. Mine was good when parked, 9 months later after sitting while doing my build, it wouldn't adapt and my car wouldn't idle, just searched the whole time then stalled.
-J. Hines


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## scramblingvw (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi just a guess i see u have 3'' maf , c2 stage 2 i think it needs 4'' maf ?
i know when i put my aba turbo together, a lot of little things to deal with, maybe try 
another plug wire ,just went thru that on my other vw, year old bosch wires ,first i put new plugs cap rotor button ,swaped dist still something was wrong, finally bought another set of wires presto cured


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

jhines_06gli said:


> By the looks of your distributor rotor button and all, you may be slightly off, but not necessarily a tooth off. You should be able to loosen the 13mm holding the distributor down and roll it back to line that mark up and compensate for the timing.
> 
> But not sure that's gonna fix your issue. Being off that slight bit will hurt performance since the timing is off. But the car should still run, idle and create vacuum. My distributor is set close to that if not more on my big-cam JH motor and there is no issues with it staying running. Just cams really hard and has low vacuum at idle.
> 
> ...


Okay tomorrow I'm going to do that adaptation with the vagcom along with checking all my timing lines once more. Thanks.



scramblingvw said:


> Hi just a guess i see u have 3'' maf , c2 stage 2 i think it needs 4'' maf ?
> i know when i put my aba turbo together, a lot of little things to deal with, maybe try
> another plug wire ,just went thru that on my other vw, year old bosch wires ,first i put new plugs cap rotor button ,swaped dist still something was wrong, finally bought another set of wires presto cured


Nope, 3" MAF for anything they offer 8v related as far as i know? 
Also going to buy new plug wires if the re-time and TBA doesn't solve the problem.


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Are you getting spark to all of your plugs? Pull the wire off the plug end and hold it 1/4" inch away from the intake manifold and see if it sparks (I'd recommend wearing rubber gloves or something to do this).

If you had a cylinder misfiring, you would read lean, not rich. Sounds like its just pouring in fuel. Check for air leaks everywhere, the smallest boost/vacuum leak will cause a MAF based car to run like ****.


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## scramblingvw (Aug 10, 2007)

Yeh 3'' is right i seem to do everything in metric these days,dont know y i was thinking 4''


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

djsheijkdfj said:


> Are you getting spark to all of your plugs? Pull the wire off the plug end and hold it 1/4" inch away from the intake manifold and see if it sparks (I'd recommend wearing rubber gloves or something to do this).
> 
> If you had a cylinder misfiring, you would read lean, not rich. Sounds like its just pouring in fuel. Check for air leaks everywhere, the smallest boost/vacuum leak will cause a MAF based car to run like ****.


Yes all plugs are getting spark.
I'm going to take my main boost/vac location off of the intake and temporarily plug it and see if it idles any better.

This is about the best that it runs, and it will only do this when sitting still. It will die going down the road.


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## SVTDanny (Aug 8, 2005)

Check your timing with a gun. 

Try and see how it runs without the MAF and/or O2(s) as well. Cap all unnecessary vacuum ports too, though I doubt it's a vacuum leak - it would run lean if that were the case. 

Double and triple check everything between the MAF and the TB to make sure there are 100% no leaks. Make sure your BOV/DV isn't sticking open if it isn't vented.


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

djsheijkdfj said:


> Check your timing with a gun.
> 
> Try and see how it runs without the MAF and/or O2(s) as well. Cap all unnecessary vacuum ports too, though I doubt it's a vacuum leak - it would run lean if that were the case.
> 
> Double and triple check everything between the MAF and the TB to make sure there are 100% no leaks. Make sure your BOV/DV isn't sticking open if it isn't vented.


Will do, sorry I get lost between the two threads. Will have more information tomorrow.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

I would like to understand what is causing the rich idle.... if you run very rich 10's with poor spark and/or timing advance, in my experience ABA engines will stall... and of course if your TB is closing too much it will also cause rich condition and stall, but normally you will have a very low idle.

My ABA always liked 8~12* at idle, ~.8-1.2k....


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## scramblingvw (Aug 10, 2007)

I had trouble with aba turbo starting hard first thing everyday,after that it was fine,but first start up was hard finally quit in traffic,was a cracked coil 2 year old ,new coil wow praise c2,does it stall after boost or just normal shifting on the road,looks like u have bov recirculating ,tried mine 4 couple hundred miles dumping into atmosphere no good stalled after boost every time,tied it into
turbo about 4 inches before turbo ,perfect. have about 12000 miles on it, run 10psi bone stock, have pretty big turbo, type in internal external wasegate spelled it wrong in title never could re edit it right,this has work perfect no boost creep at all you'll see what i,am running lol


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

1) Fix the physical timing; this will cause issues especially on a turbo car.
2) Pull and read all spark plugs; inspect cap and rotor/clean.
3) Clean MAF with specific CRC spray.

Then drive it a bit and re-read the plugs. I had the same ABA software and never need a TBA even when changing altitude by 9,000 feet and adding cam/intercooler to a water meth setup. It started right up and idled fine right after changes... I was constantly cleaning the MAF every ~2k miles though.


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## GTI276 (Jan 30, 2008)

its has to be timing or a spark issue i had a problem on my mk4 2.0t that was a spark issue too i dropped the heat range on the plugs and ran some cheap autolite plugs took care of it all. What plugs are you running? 

and i agree use the crc maf cleaner great sh**


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