# Which K04 kit to get- APR, AWE or CTS



## NUISANCECC (Mar 11, 2012)

I am now in the market for a K04 now that the VA got off their ass and gave me the back pay for my pension. Obviously all of the kits contain a K04 but is there any reason to get one over the other? They all contain gaskets and such but is there any difference other than the name of the place I am getting them from? 

The price list is here- 

APR kit- $2650 
AWE kit- $1995 + $300 for software upgrade 
CTS kit- $1849 + $300 for software upgrade 

EDIT- Looks looks like APR will be having their anual sale soon so it will be around $2400 for their set up OTD


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## TDI Driver (Jan 17, 2006)

I'd go with the APR kit. We've installed countless numbers of them at NGP and couldn't be happier with them. 
Yes just about every good K04 kit is going to include all the parts that you need to install it, but the difference is that APR does a very good job of standing behind every product that they sell. 
If you ever have an issue with your kit (installation, warranty, or whatever) they take care of you. :thumbup: 
Not to mention their software is pretty much the best in the industry (imho).


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

TDI Driver said:


> I'd go with the APR kit. We've installed countless numbers of them at NGP and couldn't be happier with them.
> Yes just about every good K04 kit is going to include all the parts that you need to install it, but the difference is that APR does a very good job of standing behind every product that they sell.
> If you ever have an issue with your kit (installation, warranty, or whatever) they take care of you. :thumbup:
> Not to mention their software is pretty much the best in the industry (imho).


 That price for APR "OTD" doesnt include installation does it?


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## Projekt R32 (Jun 2, 2008)

I have purchased from CTS for years. I would much rather buy their kit and not deal with the over-inflated APR price. Personally I have always found the APR S/W to be on the mild side. Just my 2 cents.


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## Vr6DubNY (Jan 5, 2001)

Awe's kit is 1825 without software now, 2,095 with....atleast thats what their website says


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## B00stin (Dec 17, 2011)

Im getting Revo's K04 put in now got a great deal on it from the guys at euro enginuity if you get a chance call them they have an awe special going on now as well just this weekend!


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Vr6DubNY said:


> Awe's kit is 1825 without software now, 2,095 with....atleast thats what their website says


 Yeah, they lowered it


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## BOUDAH (Aug 15, 2008)

Cool thing about CTS and awe is u can get a hardware only kit and tune iit to your setup. You can chose your software too . APR s price is markup and profit. 

HPA a cost is also up there with APR. but the thing with HPA is they stand by their software and product to included exceptional service from Darryl and Kier. 

I guess I just don't like APR as much had problems in the past and as of late APR seems less enthusiast oriented and more big biz 

-Ellery


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## BOUDAH (Aug 15, 2008)

Anyone have HPa dyno numbers?


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

BOUDAH said:


> Anyone have HPa dyno numbers?


 There all about the same, which is around 360 hp....and take about 15% for drive train loss and that should be wheel numbers


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> There all about the same, which is around 360 hp....and take about 15% for drive train loss and that should be wheel numbers


 Is FWD drive train loss really 15%? That's more like rwd numbers! Thought fwd was like 10%?

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> Is FWD drive train loss really 15%? That's more like rwd numbers! Thought fwd was like 10%?
> 
> Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


 
Ur probably right but i rather rate my car under power then over rate it....thats just my opinion and .02


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## BOUDAH (Aug 15, 2008)

So 260 is Crank , damn. Well I'm used to 20% on the R32, so thats not so bad.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

Cts is great to deal with, ive had issues with apr and i know of many people that have had the same 

If you have any questions or concerns about anything email [email protected] and he'll set you up and help you all the way through. Im very happy i went with thwm for my BT stuff 

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## Josh/AWE (Feb 7, 2012)

If you have any questions or concerns about our kit, feel free to shoot me a PM or email. Between the new pricing and the power that our kit has shown, you really can't go wrong.


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

Wondering who is running free install of APR K04...


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## BOUDAH (Aug 15, 2008)

Stero1D said:


> Wondering who is running free install of APR K04...


U mean the software or the Turbo? no one is going to isntall it for free. :laugh:


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

BOUDAH said:


> U mean the software or the Turbo? no one is going to isntall it for free. :laugh:


Actually... there were a couple of different shops doing free installs of the K04 last year!


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

I have the AWE kit and have ran it with GIAC software in my previous GTI and after selling my GTI I decided to have it moved to my wife's CC and is now running APR software. (got lucky since I originally had license to APR stage 1 software on my GTI before I went AWE/GIAC Ko4... So I was allowed to transfer to the CC and upgrade to the APR Ko4 software)

Per the tech (FourSeasons here in Orange County), labor with the AWE kit seems to be a bit more involved compared to the APR kit.

I don't know if AWE has a kit for cars without a sound pipe, however he had to move the whole sound pipe assembly from the GTI to the CC. He also had to redo all the lines as the AWE kit uses aftermarket lines. With the APR kit it would have been a simple unbolt old turbo and bolt in new turbo and reattach the oe lines.

Lastly, and this goes for any kit, the downpipe had to be changed out since the oe downpipe doesnt have the extra required O2 bung. And modifying the OE downpipe from the CC is costly since unlike the GTI downpipe it has an extra canister right at the turbo likely to quiet things down compared to the GTI... You'd have to cut off that whole section and weld in a new flex pipe and O2 bung... Getting a new DP in this case is a no brainer decision.

Power in the CC feels very nice compared to when it was in the GTI. Even without XDS the slightly heavier CC with it's longer wheel base seems to make it easier to put the power down... Althought when it does loos traction onnacceleration it's just one wheel spinning where as with the GTI the XDS would simulate LSD farely effectively.

Also moved my APR intercooler and VF Dogbone mount from my former GTI and it's all running great... The CC is still very quiet and sounds almost stock... But its putting out APR's advertised crank horsepower which you would never guess if you see the car... As it is completely stock appearing... Not even lowered. Will likely install the H&R rear sway bar from my old GTI as well as Stoptech pads as the factory CC pad compound is just terrible.

As far as software tune goes... It's hard to say... I do want to get around to running heat soaked logs on the CC to be sure there is no to very little timing pull with the APR software... The logs I've seen from others seems pretty favorable and other people that I track with seems to have no issues running APR Ko4 hard lap after lap and their cars seem to stay cool as far as engine temps go. My GIAC GTI on the other hand couldn't keep its engine running cool after several laps... This lead to a warped head gasket which resulted in an engine rebuild and after a yearof tracking... Another warped head gasket which lead me to just sell the car off and buy an E90 M3. Logs with the GIAC software and Ko4 where done with the GTI after finding out aboutthe slight head gasket leak and it did show aggressive timing request and up to 7 degrees of pulled timing (APR logs I've seen have been no higher than 3 degrees timing pull)... Could these log results be because of the headgasket? Otherwise no boost lost, no driveability issues, no cel's.... So who knows.... At that point I didn't care and just sold the car off and not deal with it anymore.

Although the CC isn't my track car... I will be taking it out to Fastivus this year to see how it does now with the APR software... I shouldn't expect the same heat issues... And if anyone is there that can log... That would be a good way to test out the software

To be fair however... I think GIAC's DSG software really compliments the Ko4 really nicely, had it on the GTI and regular D mode was spot on as far as shifting and the Ko4 boost characteristics whereas the CC's oe DSG is kinda just laggy and in D shifts while the Ko4 is still out of it's power band... In M mode shifts between each gear feels like forever compared to how quick GIAC's DSG software shifted in the GTI. Additionally running GIAC's DSG software led to no more DSG overheat issues on the track since it slipped the clutches less and caused it to engage more fully... I'd totally get the GIAC DSG software but I think they wouldnt like the fact that I have APR software in the car now.... I guess I will just have to wait till APR releases DSG software.


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

9r's_CC said:


> Actually... there were a couple of different shops doing free installs of the K04 last year!


Yup, i have seen a few last year, but to far of the drive 

Called my vw dealer try want 700, other shop in Wisconsin or OHio, cnt recal, wants 450 for the install..

If im donna decide w ko4 n APR gpong to have free installs at the annual Bbq i might drive those 800 miles...


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

Great write out, Panda


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## Gradysmith (Feb 18, 2012)

9r's_CC said:


> Actually... there were a couple of different shops doing free installs of the K04 last year!


I had mine installed for free last year. ACH tuning in Washington state, HS tuning in Ohio, and Black Forest Ind. in North Carolina all offered APR K04 free intalls last year during the summer months sale (July).

I called a local tuning shop in Charlotte (GMP performance, awesome company), and asked if they would offer the same. They said yes. Done deal.:laugh:


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## Gradysmith (Feb 18, 2012)

Stero1D said:


> Great write out, Panda


I agree, well said.

This was my main reason for choosing APR. Longevity and reliablility were my top priorities, not every last bit of HP or being able to pull ahead 2 feet in a race.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Gradysmith said:


> I had mine installed for free last year. ACH tuning in Washington state, HS tuning in Ohio, and Black Forest Ind. in North Carolina all offered APR K04 free intalls last year during the summer months sale (July).
> 
> I called a local tuning shop in Charlotte (GMP performance, awesome company), and asked if they would offer the same. They said yes. Done deal.:laugh:


That's cool, most good reputable shops will do stuff like that or price match stuff to get ur business


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

thinking of getting CTS turbo, due to the lowest pricing... still wondering if APR n CTS are alike or there are differences in the kits?


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

I thought the dv valve placement was different on the cts turbo kit? If so, consider the cost of the ancillary parts to relocate the dv...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4


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## low_passat (Sep 11, 2010)

Stero1D said:


> thinking of getting CTS turbo, due to the lowest pricing... still wondering if APR n CTS are alike or there are differences in the kits?


APR's price includes software, CTS does not


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

low_passat said:


> APR's price includes software, CTS does not


Tea and its like 900 bux difference thou! 

Im apr customer already, called them tofay, theres gonna be some fee to upgrade to ko4 programs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> I thought the dv valve placement was different on the cts turbo kit? If so, consider the cost of the ancillary parts to relocate the dv...
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4


Brother, cts kit comes with all needed to relocate!

I talked to Cts guys today, they told me why they had to go w relocate kit.... One of the reasons - keep it further frm heat, n second they use actual s3 ko4 turbo housing... I thnk apr using modified ko3 housing thats why no need to relocate anything! Im not 100% on that 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Mr_Giuseppe (Dec 1, 2015)

How did you get the apr tune in your CC I want to transfer mine bc I'm
Putting a k04 on my gti but they are saying I cant


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## Mr_Giuseppe (Dec 1, 2015)

*Awe k04*

So I've been looking around for a k04 for my mk6 gti and was bouncing between a few options. I'm so excited to say I finally ordered one. I bought the AWE k04 kit. The customer service at AWE tuning is absolutely amazing. I spoke with John Voss and Josh Davis... Both were able to answer all my questions thoroughly, and were super helpful!

I'll be installing the K04 soon and I'll be posting pictures and videos! So stay tuned!


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

Mr_Giuseppe said:


> So I've been looking around for a k04 for my mk6 gti and was bouncing between a few options. I'm so excited to say I finally ordered one. I bought the AWE k04 kit. The customer service at AWE tuning is absolutely amazing. I spoke with John Voss and Josh Davis... Both were able to answer all my questions thoroughly, and were super helpful!
> 
> I'll be installing the K04 soon and I'll be posting pictures and videos! So stay tuned!


I'm excited for you! I've done a lot of strange things due to enthusiasm, but bumping a 2 year old thread on the CC forum to let everyone know you bought a k04 kit for your GTI is exceptional. :facepalm:


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## Stero1D (Aug 8, 2012)

If id do it again, i got w Uni.
Uni got the best hardware! Their DV relocation part is on Point! 

I run CST w APR tune. Had issues w it - had to get uni dv relocation and custom turbo hose(was slipping off under boost, was told cz it was to thick and clamp could not hold it in place)

AWE is identical/same as CTS kit +Giac software included.

As far as I recall APR using modified ko3 housing for their ko4 kit, thats why no DV relocation involved. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr_Giuseppe (Dec 1, 2015)

flipflp said:


> I'm excited for you! I've done a lot of strange things due to enthusiasm, but bumping a 2 year old thread on the CC forum to let everyone know you bought a k04 kit for your GTI is exceptional. :facepalm:


haha thanks


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## Mr_Giuseppe (Dec 1, 2015)

Stero1D said:


> If id do it again, i got w Uni.
> Uni got the best hardware! Their DV relocation part is on Point!
> 
> I run CST w APR tune. Had issues w it - had to get uni dv relocation and custom turbo hose(was slipping off under boost, was told cz it was to thick and clamp could not hold it in place)
> ...


hmm.. Ive done some research haven't heard anyone with problems coming form their AWE kit, I've heard nothing but bad reviews about the APR tune, so i stayed away from that. but ill have mine installed soon with some feedback and pictures to go along with that!


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## manefresh2089 (Sep 19, 2012)

Anyone have any 1/4 mile times posted running any of these kits? Looking at having Linden VW in jersey install APR K04


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## AJ_CC (Jan 10, 2015)

manefresh2089 said:


> Anyone have any 1/4 mile times posted running any of these kits? Looking at having Linden VW in jersey install APR K04
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's a video on YouTube of a guy in a cc running a CTS k04 kit and he makes a 12.6 pass. Looks like he's running drag radials up front. Not sure of the other mods, just lists cts k04 running APR software. 


https://youtu.be/HQYPyDvRjzM


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## AJ_CC (Jan 10, 2015)

In another video he makes 312whp/308tq on a mustang dyno.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hne7Iq7wA3k


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## manefresh2089 (Sep 19, 2012)

AJ_CC said:


> In another video he makes 312whp/308tq on a mustang dyno.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hne7Iq7wA3k


Thanks! Hoping a few others chim in.


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## NUISANCECC (Mar 11, 2012)

In the end I got lucky, I found a guy that was selling an unused APR K04 kit in a GTI forum and put it on my car. I had it dyno'd a while back, made over 300 to the wheels. I might have the dyno sheet lying around, if I can find it I will post it up. I will note that the car had a lot of things done to it since then including a water meth install and a FMIC.


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## manefresh2089 (Sep 19, 2012)

Nice. No need for dunk sheet. Apr and most companies have those up. I'm just curious to real world forum members 1/4 mile times lol.. 


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## NUISANCECC (Mar 11, 2012)

manefresh2089 said:


> Nice. No need for dunk sheet. Apr and most companies have those up. I'm just curious to real world forum members 1/4 mile times lol..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, can't help you out with that. I am on the stock clutch and until I put a new one in I have to take it easy with the setup I have cause I am having clutch slipping issues, which I expected.


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