# Interest in brand new fabricated syncro/haldex rear end parts?



## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm a fabricator by trade and have a 90 corrado begging for haldex. Since I'm buying a B4V with haldex I built a while back for a customer, I'll have all the parts to replicate everything from new stock. I have full access to cnc mills/cnc tube bending equipment/laser cutting/etc so none of that is an issue. 

So, the question is, how large of a demand is there for a complete rear beam with haldex brackets, rear beam mounting plates, and tubular trailing arms setup to use OEM VW wheel bearings?


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

Whitbread said:


> I'm a fabricator by trade and have a 90 corrado begging for haldex. Since I'm buying a B4V with haldex I built a while back for a customer, I'll have all the parts to replicate everything from new stock. I have full access to cnc mills/cnc tube bending equipment/laser cutting/etc so none of that is an issue.
> 
> So, the question is, how large of a demand is there for a complete rear beam with haldex brackets, rear beam mounting plates, and tubular trailing arms setup to use OEM VW wheel bearings?


 I am sure like everything, depends on the cost. People are playing $1500-2000 for syncro stuff that neeeds to be swapped to haldex


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## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

As the above gentlemen already stated...it would likely depend on the cost.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Subscribed. It would be great to eliminate the need to source 20+ year old parts that were never sold in the US (or NA for vr6 syncro parts). Sent you a PM also :wave:


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm thinking somewhere between $1000-$1300 would be a realistic price for the rear beam, all bushings, and control arms without powder coat. Beam and brackets would be mig welded, arms would be tig welded. 

Since only a handful of quiet people here know me, this is my work. You'll be hard pressed to find higher quality.


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## Hurt (May 3, 2011)

I would be very interested in a full synchro swap kit for either a VR or a 2.0.


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

Hurt said:


> I would be very interested in a full synchro swap kit for either a VR or a 2.0.


 This isn't going to be a full kit by any means. It would only be a rear beam, rear arms, sway bar, and mounting brackets setup to run a haldex rear end in a mk2/mk3/b4. You'll need to source the wheel bearings, brakes, axles, driveshaft, etc.


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

wow..I am actually going to go buy a syncro setup this weekend. I like the idea of this much better though, ...I am interested.


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## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

Nice looking welds...what state are you located in? Does the price include shipping?


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

I would be interested either in just control arms if they fit original bean or into complete setup.

If you put some thought into it and fix some of the issues the original beam/arms have in lowered cars, I'm sure a lot ppl that have already done the conversion using original parts would be interested in this, including me


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

jettaboy_gtx said:


> I would be interested either in just control arms if they fit original bean or into complete setup.
> 
> If you put some thought into it and fix some of the issues the original beam/arms have in lowered cars, I'm sure a lot ppl that have already done the conversion using original parts would be interested in this, including me


For someone who isn't remotely into slammed cars in general, let alone lowered syncro cars, what are the issues?


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

Whitbread said:


> For someone who isn't remotely into slammed cars in general, let alone lowered syncro cars, what are the issues?



The rear arms go out of their operating range, the result is a bad rear alignment of the wheels. I am sure depending on what is used for arms, it would not be hard to incorporate some amount of adjustment into them.


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

Rapid Decompression said:


> The rear arms go out of their operating range, the result is a bad rear alignment of the wheels. I am sure depending on what is used for arms, it would not be hard to incorporate some amount of adjustment into them.


What angle is going out of favor? Camber or toe?


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

Whitbread said:


> What angle is going out of favor? Camber or toe?


 Both...if you look at the angle of the arms...at full or near full travel, you can see the angle of the arms makes the top come in and the front of the wheel toes out as well.


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

Are eccentric bolts enough to correct it or is a full geometry change needed? I'll have to dig up the spare vr6 syncro arm and take a good stare at it.


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

Whitbread said:


> Are eccentric bolts enough to correct it or is a full geometry change needed? I'll have to dig up the spare vr6 syncro arm and take a good stare at it.


Hmm it is hard to say IDK...lol

I think it really depend how low it is. I would think the inboard control arm mount position has alot to do with it.


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## 2doorV6 (Jan 29, 2003)

*I had the same thoughts*

I think that if you had it in that price range and you didnt have to ship it from the netherlands you would do well. I mean more people would be open to doing awd setups if it was more mainstream. I have a passat syncro rear beam for a customers swap but have been waiting for a solution better than whats out there currently. I have a chassis builder who builds race cars who was interested but his pricing estimate really wasnt sensible and it was a minimum of 10.


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## RATHERSMART (Dec 6, 2005)

i would go for a set of syncro body mounts


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## CorrieG60 (Jan 18, 2004)

I think that there's a lot of people in Europe(especially the Netherlands and Germany) want to convert their cars into 4wd, but having 20+year old junk to do that isn't that interesting anymore..
With your price stated it would be VERY interesting if it could be shipped to Europe(for reasonable cost off-course).
Maybe there would also be upgrades possible, ie uniball joints, trailing arms designed for better adjusting camber/caster/toe etc.

Really interested to see where this is leading to!!

Greetz from the Netherlands!


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

Whitbread said:


> For someone who isn't remotely into slammed cars in general, let alone lowered syncro cars, what are the issues?



Just the complete design of how control arms are mounted and how they move is ****...and the lower you go worse it gets.

If you were to build a new beam and arms from scratch I would stay away from trying to copy the original design and try to make it better....

I was planning on building a new rear beam and arms for my corrado just don't have time.

I have Passat setup in there which is 2 parts beam and rear cross member where the hanger bushing attaches to.

My idea was to make a one piece frame that would still use same 4 mounting points and make control arms similar to front arms......I wasn't planning to build new hubs but instead use front spindles and front struts in the back

I'm no suspension expert but stock setup kinda sux


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

How low are you guys going to make the stock ones go outta whack?!?!? Sure it's not fantastic geometry but so far all i've seen is some less than stellar camber. I would like to go about an inch lower tho. I'd read that there's a way to get eccentric bolts from an audi into the rear beam which provides enough adjustment to the arms to get things right tho. 

Personally, for 99.99999% of the people out there i wouldn't reinvent the wheel, just improve it. I'd make it so that either syncro or haldex rear ends cAn be bolted in, alignment provisions are already incorporated and the mounting is solid... no rubber bushings

I would think anything more complex is gonna cost ALOT more than what is being tossed about here and if anyone is gonna make some crazy setup using front knuckles etc, they're gonna make it themselves, not buy it as every setup will have different requirments at that degree of fabrication


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Hello sir, funny seeing you here. I still have to send you that ALH head for work, been lazy. 

I am intrigued by your idea. 

I have a full TT rear subframe from drive shaft to brakes. I also have the floor pan for dimensional jigging. The TT stuff obviously isn't a bolt in rear beam solution so I will be fabricating, but if you were to have a unit that bolted to stock locations and had proper geometries I would be interested.


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## Cspence (Nov 23, 2008)

Watching this!


Sent from my iPhone: Short but not meant to be abrupt!


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

ejg3855 said:


> Hello sir, funny seeing you here. I still have to send you that ALH head for work, been lazy.
> 
> I am intrigued by your idea.
> 
> I have a full TT rear subframe from drive shaft to brakes. I also have the floor pan for dimensional jigging. The TT stuff obviously isn't a bolt in rear beam solution so I will be fabricating, but if you were to have a unit that bolted to stock locations and had proper geometries I would be interested.


 The difference between using syncro based setup and a TT based setup are night and day. The syncro setup..you cut your spare tire well out...the TT setup would require allot more cutting to use factory location and geometry. I also think it is a wider track as well. Subframe cutting would probably be in order on MKII and MKIII based cars. Thus I dont think it would be very cost effective.


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## D3hd3nd (Jun 18, 2008)

Count me in :thumbup:


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

Sweet, looks like there's enough interest to jig it up. 

Will be over the winter, it's a crime to park a bi turbo B4V TDI in the summer .

Some pics of when it was being built. I'll have to snap some current pics. Engine bay has been cleaned up substantially.


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## Cspence (Nov 23, 2008)

Nice!


Sent from my iPhone: Short but not meant to be abrupt!


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Rapid Decompression said:


> The difference between using syncro based setup and a TT based setup are night and day. The syncro setup..you cut your spare tire well out...the TT setup would require allot more cutting to use factory location and geometry. I also think it is a wider track as well. Subframe cutting would probably be in order on MKII and MKIII based cars. Thus I dont think it would be very cost effective.


A challenge I am willing to accept, I think any AWD conversion is not cost effective.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Damn Matt, good seeing you in here with some ideas. :thumbup:


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## khemiicalz (Mar 25, 2009)

i would def buy one if you keep it


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Whitbread said:


> [/URL]


should have went over the rear axle.


:beer:


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

TBT-Syncro said:


> should have went over the rear axle.
> 
> 
> :beer:


Not possible with ride height of car otherwise I would have. Hard to tell in that pic but the lowest point of the exhaust is same as the bottom of the diff. So no ground clearance is lost.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Whitbread said:


> Not possible with ride height of car otherwise I would have. Hard to tell in that pic but the lowest point of the exhaust is same as the bottom of the diff. So no ground clearance is lost.


you go close to the cv and its not an issue. i can slam mine and it doesnt touch. the advantage is that it looks better, and i dont have a squashed exhaust.


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

TBT-Syncro said:


> you go close to the cv and its not an issue. i can slam mine and it doesnt touch. the advantage is that it looks better, and i dont have a squashed exhaust.


Yours isn't a Passat wagon and you're not running a haldex rear though; the wagon gas tank and haldex rear end goes over further to the driver side. Believe me, if I could've gone over, I would have. I personally don't think oval tubing looks bad anyway.


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## MancusoGTI8v (May 24, 2002)

Totally interested. Subscribing....


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## Cspence (Nov 23, 2008)

Can't wait to do this!!

http://youtu.be/IFcQGWrVfJg


Sent from my iPhone: Short but not meant to be abrupt!


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

Somewhere further up in this thread, a geometry question was asked but no answer provided. I think this is gonna be a good place to start. I'm probably gonna do a proper analysis in the fall/winter as well as i now have a spare beam/arms

http://www.e30m3project.com/e30m3performance/tech_articles/susp-tech/rear_curves/index.htm

While i am certain the syncro rear end doesn't have the exact same geometry, the math indicates that things aren't SO bad. The toe in gain isn't great but at the time not bad either....


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

boner said:


> Somewhere further up in this thread, a geometry question was asked but no answer provided.


what was the question?


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

Post 12


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

boner said:


> Post 12


what exactly is the question?


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

Just a general question of how the geometry goes off when a syncro is dropped. The link above provides a start to how to figure it out. The e30 stuff looks quite similar to syncro so i figure quite applicable. But i have yet to verify (in vancouver for work this week). I am likely gonna dig into the analysis after my racing season is done in september. The goal is to determine if the less than steller camber and toe angle changes (° per inch of wheel travel) be compensated acceptably by eccentric bolts only or is there a more serious problem to be solved. Gut feel is that the bolts are enough.

The curves shown in the link are great info


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## Cspence (Nov 23, 2008)

Whitbread said:


> Sweet, looks like there's enough interest to jig it up.
> 
> Will be over the winter, it's a crime to park a bi turbo B4V TDI in the summer .
> 
> Some pics of when it was being built. I'll have to snap some current pics. Engine bay has been cleaned up substantially.


Winter is coming!! :beer::beer:


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

Cspence said:


> Winter is coming!! :beer::beer:


Don't remind me! It's still 80F and sunny today!



Here's a better shot of my frankenwagen



And a current under hood shot


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## Cspence (Nov 23, 2008)

lol....:laugh:

That thing is sweet :thumbup:

PS- for what its worth, depending on timing, my friend might be in to buy one as well....Not sure how many you were looking to sell to make it worth while


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

boner said:


> Just a general question of how the geometry goes off when a syncro is dropped. The link above provides a start to how to figure it out. The e30 stuff looks quite similar to syncro so i figure quite applicable. But i have yet to verify (in vancouver for work this week). I am likely gonna dig into the analysis after my racing season is done in september. The goal is to determine if the less than steller camber and toe angle changes (° per inch of wheel travel) be compensated acceptably by eccentric bolts only or is there a more serious problem to be solved. Gut feel is that the bolts are enough.
> 
> The curves shown in the link are great info


with the eccentric bolt setup its possible to tow the rear wheels out, however, i believe the least amount of camber i could get was 1 degree negative (i'm also running 1/16th of tow per side). However, my car is no slammed, although a lot lower than stock.

not sure if this answers your question.


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## hubbell (Oct 30, 2001)

im interested


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## Cspence (Nov 23, 2008)

Looking forward to this...


Sent from my iPhone: Short but not meant to be abrupt!


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

Anyone here got a spare rear syncro set-up kicking around and 3d modeling skills?

If someone could model up the original set-up I'd like to play around with some new designs. Or at leas get some good detailed dimensions of it.


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

i do and plan to soon. i have tentatively sold my rear diff this weekend so i guess i better get'erdun before then lol

still have a spare beam and arms too. i've already started working on the mounting brackets.

i've taken a look at my bank account and reconciled that against what the winter plans are.... i'm gonna have some time while i wait for my savings to accumulate lol!!!!


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

Awesome, if I can help in any way let me know.

If I have time I might be taking my rear end off the car this winter to do few modifications and to finally get it powdercoated.


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## Rapid Decompression (Dec 5, 2004)

I am located in eastern WA and have a full syncro setup already out of the car if anyone needs to measure.


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

I've started, VC is done, i'll work on the diff body over the next coupla nights. any suggestions on where to post the actual CAD files? what format? was thinkin step or iges.

cheers


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

good start there....maybe set up a dropbox to post the files and step probably works best


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

www.grabcad.com is pretty cool


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

ejg3855 said:


> www.grabcad.com is pretty cool


That is pretty cool, thanks for sharring


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Edit.


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

forgot about this, didn't get much further than that before the syncro was sold. however, i'll toss what I did do up on grabcad. basically, while it doesn't look very pretty, I did get all of the mounting points modeled fairly accurately. i'm doing some cad work on the side for a machine shop recently and one of their customers does 3d scanning. gonna try to trade drafting work for scanning stuff over the winter. I want to do an 02m haldex, haldex rear, aba block and if I can get one outta the yard, an Audi/VW 012 trans....

I've got some plans brewing for about 5 years from now lol


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

Sorry guys, having to drive my car longer into the season than I like. New motor for my caddy truck is taking longer than planned. Just had the rear end out earlier this week to put on eccentric bolts to get rid of my -3* camber.


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## boner (May 19, 2002)

what are the dimensions on the bits that you weld to the beam? need the depth and width of the slot as well as the dims for the holes. need to draw them up and send to the machine shop.... ya, I could do it when I get the hardware but I just haven't done that yet


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

All plates - 1.5" long, don't remember width. 1.300" wide cutout on all 8, .120" depth on 4, .080" depth on 4, slot was milled with a .480" roughing mill (resharped .500" mill).


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## JamesS (Nov 18, 2008)

boner said:


> what are the dimensions on the bits that you weld to the beam? need the depth and width of the slot as well as the dims for the holes. need to draw them up and send to the machine shop.... ya, I could do it when I get the hardware but I just haven't done that yet


If you are having some made PM me. maybe I could get some made too? How did you source the hardware?


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

JamesS said:


> If you are having some made PM me. maybe I could get some made too? How did you source the hardware?


Got mine from Jim Ellis Audi. 

4	Adjustment part	4F0501389C	$13.05
4	Cap nut	WHT000708	$1.89
4	Eccentric screw . ECCENTER SCREW.	WHT001682	$9.25


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## raddo (Dec 22, 1999)

^^those are nothing new! I've had mine for about 3 years now. I actually had a machine shop duplicate a bunch of sets for me too, but they work awesome and take all of the camber out of the rear. I haven't actually put mine on my car yet but on my good friends car it came out well. If anyone needs a set I think I might have a extra set laying around.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

raddo said:


> ^^those are nothing new!


He never said they were new. he was just sharing the part numbers. :beer:


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## built_16v (May 2, 2008)

Whitbread said:


> Sorry guys, having to drive my car longer into the season than I like. New motor for my caddy truck is taking longer than planned. Just had the rear end out earlier this week to put on eccentric bolts to get rid of my -3* camber.


Any chance on selling the weld on tabs? I want to fix the toe issue on my truck 
This was an idea I was thinking about doing just haven't had a chance to make a drawing and find a machine shop


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## raddo (Dec 22, 1999)

Why did you weld the camber plates on the outside of the beam? you only really need the one on the inside of the beam. I have 2 set of these camber plates in the garage, so if anyone needs a set I will let them go for $100 shipped to any of the lower 48 states


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## jettasmooth (Aug 7, 2002)

I'm definitely interested in picking up one of these beams as well. I have a stock passat syncro rear beam that is in pretty rough shape (rust-wise). If you still plan on making these haldex beams for people, let me know what your timeline looks like. Thanks!


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## Cspence (Nov 23, 2008)

Can't wait for this! My car is begging for awd!


Sent from my iPhone: Short but not meant to be abrupt!


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Here's my AWD build, with my own Syncro to Haldex kit. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6881669-MK1-16VT-with-Haldex-AWD-Silly-Rabbit-v1-5


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

raddo said:


> Why did you weld the camber plates on the outside of the beam? you only really need the one on the inside of the beam. I have 2 set of these camber plates in the garage, so if anyone needs a set I will let them go for $100 shipped to any of the lower 48 states


For toe adjustments. The plates on the inside let me change camber which was the main issue, but I also wanted toe adjustability just in case. I really didn't want to pull this all apart again if I went to the alignment shop and found out toe was off. So less work to do everything at once.



jettasmooth said:


> I'm definitely interested in picking up one of these beams as well. I have a stock passat syncro rear beam that is in pretty rough shape (rust-wise). If you still plan on making these haldex beams for people, let me know what your timeline looks like. Thanks!


Still planned, at this point it will probably be next winter. Despite my best plans, I've had to drive this car through the winter this year. It was either the wagon or my 83Kmi G60, and that's not happening... :banghead:


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## 1broknrado (Jul 6, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Book marking this thread for future


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## Cspence (Nov 23, 2008)

^ Maybe we can consolidate our orders to save on shipping to CT! Lol


Sent from my iPhone: Short but not meant to be abrupt!


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## 1broknrado (Jul 6, 2005)

*FV-QR*

^ for 1000 bucks that aint bad! I might say F the paint job, spray bomb it, and start the AWD build instead!


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## MancusoGTI8v (May 24, 2002)

Updates?


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## mk3jetta16 (Jan 28, 2010)

MancusoGTI8v said:


> Updates?


^^ agreed and interested, any updates?


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## MIVRT24V (Feb 7, 2010)

x2 I'm ready to come get it or pay for shipping .


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## Whitbread (Dec 19, 2007)

Been too busy to do anything with it sadly. My b4v haldex got t boned in july, took a month off from accident, had to move shops unexpectedly, just getting caught up to where i was at the end of june.


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## CableVR6 (Aug 31, 2010)

I just found this thread. How's everything going Whitbread? You ever get to these?


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