# Who here is daily driving their carb'd VW?



## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Looking for feedback... how many of you are daily driving your carb'd beasts?

I did several searches on DD and carbs, but not finding the kind of info I'm looking for.

I've got an '86 GTI 1.8L 8v (RD) with CIS-E. The CIS needs at least a few hundred worth of parts... it is, after all, 25 years old. I've wanted the sidedraft Weber setup since the first time I saw it over ten years ago (shortly after I bought this car and started shopping for tuning parts). I found a brand new Redline Weber K407 kit for $995 (http://www.piercemanifolds.com/Weber_Carbs_volkswagen_p/k407.htm), and I am SORELY tempted. There is nothing like the sound of an old European engine running sidedraft Webers with one venturi per cylinder.

BUT...

This car is my daily driver. I live in south/central Washington state. Temps go from 90's in summer to 20's in winter. I know carbs aren't great with compensating for atmospheric changes. What I'm trying to figure out is whether it's possible to set up the Weber kit with good compromise jetting for daily driving (nearly) year-round. My wife and I do have other vehicles, so it's not like I'd be stuck if the car wouldn't start... but those vehicles don't get great gas mileage, and so I'd rather not be racking up miles on them.

Personal background: I'm an Aerospace Systems Engineer, I've owned this GTI for 11 years, I had a '98 GTI VR6 that's come and gone (the '86 is lighter, cheaper, and more fun), I've owned a Ducati 900SS ("high maintenance" doesn't scare me), and I'm handy with a wrench. I'm the kind of guy that hates electronic nannies in the car... give me a set of good brakes, firm suspension, a limited slip diff, manual steering, and a manual gearbox any day of the week. Whenever I get in my wife's car the first button I push after it's started is "Traction control OFF".

So let's hear it... how many of you drive your carb setups daily, how much tuning do you have to do throughout the year, and just for grins: what kind of mileage do you get?

Thanks! :beer:


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## bomberbob (Sep 19, 2004)

Well, I don't have a car with carbs now but,
I have had VW with dual solex, dual webers, etc (air cooled). I never had problems with weather. Choke, gas pedal, drive.
Curious why you don't mega squirt, its a relatively easy transition from CIS-E. You need to make a few changes, but its not anything severe. Ought to be right up your alley. Then you can tune to your hearts content over the full temperature range.
Total cost will probably come close to the carb kit you mention. Good thing about Megasquirt is its transferrable. If I ever lose my mind and go buy a Honda, it will work there too. Or my wifes Ford Windstar van. I like being able to transfer, instead of a liability its an investment.
Anyway, I will let the Carb guys speak now.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I was dailying my scirocco on bike carbs and it was great but now im doing some changes before i start dailying it again on bike carbs.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Why not Megasquirt? Honestly, I can't find a step-by-step how-to for the 1.8L CIS-E engine. What fuel injectors? What sensors are needed? Where to find them? How to install them? What does the MS module need connected to? Then I'm reading the MS forums for VWs, and I hear people talk about it taking 6 months to a year to get their car _running_ again, let alone dialed in.

Now, if someone can show me a straightforward tutorial for converting an old CIS-E car with no crank position sensor to standalone engine management, that doesn't involve welding one on to a random pulley, that'd be nice. Many many hours of web searching have turned up no such thing. Everything I'm reading as far as "how-to" and build threads make Megasquirt sound more nightmarish than Webers, honestly. I have yet to see one "simple" Megasquirt conversion on a VW, particularly one with CIS-E. I like the tunability of the MS system, but again, they sound like a bigger bizatch to get running than a set of Webers.

Additionally, I have to work with computers every day... I hate them, and I don't want them on my car. I'd like my car to be a computer-free zone. Manual gearbox, manual window cranks, manual steering, limited slip diff, drilled brakes with stainless lines and good pads... an engine that only needs fuel, air, and spark... "suck-squish-bang-blow"... no driver aids, no electronic nannies, no gadgets trying to think for me. I want it to work, and to be simple. I want something I can fix with a screwdriver.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

I just tried it again... researching MegaSquirt, that is. It's at the point now where all I hear is nitnoid detailspeak about pinouts and signals and voltages and the like ("connect VRIM to T2, you should see ~1.3V when it the doowizzle is triggered...").

I work with digital interfaces every d**n day (unmanned aerial vehicle flight control systems)... yes, I'm smart enough to figure it out... but it still gives me a headache. I really don't want my garage hobby to sound anything like that. I like turning wrenches, not programming. There's a reason my degree is in Aero Engineering instead of Computer Science.

Sorry bomberbob, I don't mean any disrespect to you... just some background on why Webers appeal to me, when MegaSquirt doesn't.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I don't know how you feel about bike carbs but Alls I had to do to get my car up and running on my R1 carbs was a new fuel pump that I used the existing fuel pump wiring and lines for, a fuel pressure regulator and to make an adapter for my intake. Minus making my manifold it took me about 4 hours to tear out my CIS crap and install my bike carbs to start it. Then about another 4 hours of troubleshooting. (My floats weren't set right ill post a video for you later


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## bomberbob (Sep 19, 2004)

Pilot, no disrespect taken. I fully understand your position after your latest post. I still think you can run carbs all year long, in adverse weather, as long as you have them jetted and adjusted properly, and you have some sort of cold weather enrichment (choke). I do not know the laws of your state, if they do the visual insp, or emissions checks carbs may pose a problem.
I work in a very similar job, tactical datalinks and other assorted communications systems. My daughter remarked that I had found a way to join two hobbies, cars and computers, in "holy matrimony".


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't daily my car, but I know of a couple of carb heads here who do. One of them is in Maryland now, and it's a 365-dual-carbed Volvo. As long as you aren't changing altitude multiple times a day, and have a few extra jets for the seasonal changes (jet richer when it's fall/winter, swap to leaner in the spring/summer), you'll have no problems...outside of the usual VW issues anyway .


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## squish917 (Apr 29, 2010)

*dd*

16v weber 45s, not a daily driver, but when driven, works well. Starts in cold weather and I don't even have the cold start hooked up. Also TT 288 race cams. I didn't think it would work as well as it does but I remember back in the day guys daily driving chevelle big blocks with 2 4's and cams that would barely idle. And at 1600 lbs., not much to fear at stoplights.


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## Tougemachine (Jun 28, 2010)

I've got a solex baby on my 1.6. Got two weber 40s side drafts goin on my fresh ABA as soon as I get time.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

This is awesome info. I've been reading the "All Carb Diet" thread and researching like crazy on how to pull off a carb setup.

At this point, I have some ignition tune-up parts on the way (including a new knock sensor... the wiring on my original is disintegrating). I'm going to do a tune-up on the existing CIS-E, set everything (including mixture adjustments) to stock according to Mr. Bentley, then test it a bit. If I can't get it to run right, I'm yanking the CIS-E garbage off and ordering the Webers.

This all started when my mileage went in the toilet (from 30-31 to 25-27), it started popping and cackling whenever I lift off the throttle (sounded cool at first, got annoying real quick), and now when cruising at around 3k rpm it will intermittently hesitate (a drag-like feeling, similar to hitting a deep puddle or a stiff headwind gust). The more I poke around the engine bay, the more 25-year-old electrics I find in need of replacing. If I have to replace another $100+ fuel injection-specific part, it's all coming off and carbs are going on. I've wanted sidedraft Webers since I first saw the K407 kit over 10 years ago (just after I bought this car).


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

Got rid of the cis on my 16v and went bike carbs an msd simple, straight forward and dkesnt give me ****. More then i can say for the cis. It takes a bit to start in the cold winter but worth it if u got the time to choke it andblet it warm up. And the sound alone is worth it . Makes me smile everytime i drive it .


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## DarkoMk4 (Dec 19, 2006)

Just found this thread. Ive been DDing a MKI Rocco, 2L 3A Dellorto 40's and a 302 cam. Its interesting....
Sound and throttle response gets me 1/2 chubbed everytime


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Cool. Talked with one of my coworkers who supports the idea of carbs, too... he doesn't buy the "carbs are too fiddly and seasonal" nonsense, either. His opinion is carbs were the primary source of fueling on cars for how many years? Worked fine. And sidedraft Webers were the performance carb of choice on a lot of old European cars. Carbs just didn't meet the later and more stringent emissions standards. Lucky for me, I live in a non-DEQ (non-smog-check) area of rural Washington state.  I can put whatever I want under that hood and nobody cares.

So yeah... I did a tuneup with the parts I had ordered... fixed some problems, but not all, and now there are 2 new issues. I still haven't broken my $100 threshold though (once I need another $100 fuel-injection-specific part, it's all coming off)... I'm starting to rue the day I created that rule for myself. I'm really wanting to order those Webers and yank the old fuel infection garbage...


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

Millions of cars and trucks been on the road for billions of miles from below 0F to over 100F with the same carb year round, zero changes. My Webers work great in the cold.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

W00t! Got my Colortune in the mail yesterday.  Tried it out immediately, of course. What a neat tool!

Learned that #1 is running lean, and #2-#4 are all running rich. At idle, #1 is lean enough that it misfires.

It's either the injectors (highly likely), the fuel dizzy (not so likely), or an air leak (slim possibility). I'll do some testing later to confirm whether it's the injector or the #1 cylinder itself... if it's the injector, that's my excuse to go get the Webers.  New injector set is $253, which breaks my $100 threshold.


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## hardrocco (Mar 2, 2007)

I'm not exactly daily driving my Mk1 rocco with Weber downdraft. But mine starts up right away no problem whenever I need it. I drove through your area couple years ago during a cold spell, no problems in the morning at 20 degrees with the DD. 

I have also been thinking of going dual sidedrafts with an engine swap and have been hesitating because of gas prices and being worried about day to day driving. 

I hope to watch this thread and see more input from those running sidedrafts including what their gas mileage is like.


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

the only problem DDing with webbers is they dont have a choke (at least none of the performance DCOE's ive seen did) other than that carbs should work fine year round. you should also be able to find a compromise in jetting that runs good all year so you dont have to change jets seasonally. 

as to MS you could use your existing ign system and use the hall in the distributor for the "crank sensor". for someone with your skills you should be able to do either conversion in a weekend. a fuel only MS and tunerstudio autotune would have you setup quick, without the endless tinkering many others speak of. those who spend months on these systems dont understand electronics and/or basic troubling shooting techniques. 

not pushing SEM, i do understand the awesomeness of DCOE's; simple, powerful, and wow that sound. I've had both and really understand why you want carbs. 



good luck.


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