# 2001 S4. Not impresive?



## RPA-Professional (Aug 14, 2004)

Today at work I drove an '01 S4 auto. and I really wasn't impressed. People are always talking it up about how fast they are, but I've driven it, it's really not all that fast. And honestly on the Luxury scale, the interior isn't worth the money either. The best car that I have driven recently is a Porsche 911 GT3 and obviously thats extremely fast. My new question is, why doesn't Audi make something faster, that is stock?


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## blkaudicq (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impresive? (RPA-Professional)*

Okay, i realize that i shouldn't even bother dignifying your post with an answer, but here it is. By your signature, the type of car you drive, and your general tone in your post, you are a lot tech. Now, there is no problem with that, as up until a few days ago, i was one also part time. I work at a Porsche/ Volvo Dealer, the owner also owns an audi dealer, so i've driven them all. You drove a GT3 and a S4 around a friggen' lot. How fast can you go? The damned thing is an automatic. How many people here talk about how screaming fast their automatic audi's are??! I've driven S4s and A6 2.7tts, if you just floor the thing, in a parking lot, by the time you get over the lag, you have to slow and turn! A GT3 is a totally different beast. Have you ever wondered why when you close the door in a GT2 or GT3 the whole car rattles? It's because it HAS NO SOUND INSOLATION!! It isn't ment to be nice and driven daily. That is why it barely goes over speed bumps!


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## RPA-Professional (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impresive? (blkaudicq)*

No dude you've got it all wrong. See my job isn't driving around the lot. Well it is, some of the time. Mainly I drive the cars on the road. The farthest I have taken the S4 is about 3 miles. So there is room to hit the gas. As with the GT3 I have driven 3 miles. There are some Audi's that I do DX on, Dealer Exchange. They can be hours away from our dealership. So in return to your comment. Leave another now that you know I've driven them farther than you think.


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impresive? (RPA-Professional)*

I dunno, I don't think a stock S4 is really a fast car. It's faster than a lot of cars for sure, but European Car magazine dynoed a stock one and put down 183.8 whp. That was with a manual trans. The automatic/tiptronic has even more drivetrain loss thanks to that blasted torque converter. So probably 175 whp. Thats "quick" but considering the 3600 lb curb weight, the numbers don't really support the notion that it is a fast car fresh off the factory line.
Comparing to a GT3 - the GT3 is lighter and makes 110 bhp more... plus it has NA power delivery and considerably less drivetrain loss with its rear-engine/rear drive setup and most certainly a manual transmission.
Now the beauty of any S4 is the upgradability. First, find a manual car. Second, see if you can find someone who has simply chipped their car. It makes an incredible difference.


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## RPA-Professional (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impresive? (billzcat1)*

Now thats the answer i was looking for. But I really wish that Audi could pull out a "race car" (basically the GT3 is a full on race car). People are more in the market for the Audi's anyways. Not only because they are cheaper but also Porsche holds a pricey name. People think that a Boxster is really expensive, when in reality it's a piece of crap. So comparing to how many high end Audi's we sell, Porsches just sit on the lot. Audi needs to make a "race car"


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impresive? (RPA-Professional)*

Yeah a few months ago I suggested that Audi's published numbers for the RS6 lead me to the following judgement: It should perform better. Its a bloody 450hp sedan! Audi published a 14.1 second 1/4 mile time. 
I think that while Audi does a great job with interiors and luxury and "refinement", they should also not forgot their motorsports background and the enthusiasts who want Audis to perform! I don't need 47 way power adjust seat with optional butt massager. Just give a sporting engine, a well assembled interior (doesn't have to have a zillion options) and a competant chassis and people will come! 
Every generation I read about how they have improved the monocoque design to provide additional stiffness with no weight penalty. Why then do Audis get heavier and heavier? Whats this? Aluminum Space Frame what? I read in a press release from Audi themselves that an ASF car costs them $200 more per car to build. That's all!! And voila, the body weighs 40% less. I'll pay the $200 out of my pocket when I'm ready to buy a new Audi.
Of course, I know I'm wrong. No one needs to point this out. Who would want a quasi-luxury sports car? Right now Audi builds sporty luxury sedans. 
Trim the fat, and I might consider a new Audi a feasible future purchase. Until then, I have to take what I can get and build it how I want it (which is more fun anyway!!)








3AM RANT MODE OFF!!


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

Audi RS6 Plus


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## nmulax (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impresive? (RPA-Professional)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RPA-Professional* »_Audi needs to make a "race car"

Have you heard about the Audi Le Mans quattro?







Does that count as a "race car"?
V10 twin turbocharged engine, 600bhp, 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. My dealer guestimated the price around $135k. I'm sure these numbers will fluctuate as/if it nears a release date; but it's still impressive.
http://motortrend.com/future/c...audi/
http://www.audiworld.com/news/...shtml


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## RPA-Professional (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impresive? (nmulax)*

Yeah thats a race car, but who the hell drives a Le Mans down the high way? Anyways Billzcat I deffinitly agree. Audi is spending way too much time on their luxury, and to be frank, the luxury isn't even that nice for the price they are selling. Unless you go A8 but you might as well buy a Motor Home. haha. I wouldn't mind paying for something like you described. And I absolutly agree that working on your car is a lot more fun!


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (RPA-Professional)*

I tried to stay out of this . . .

_Quote, originally posted by *RPA-Professional* »_Yeah thats a race car, but who the hell drives a Le Mans down the high way?

You asked if Audi made a fast car that was stock, and that is what he gave you. If you consider it a "race car" then take a spin in a RS6 come back and tell me its slow. The Le Mans is NOT a race car it has full interior with many amenities and does not have a tube frame chassis.
And BTW, what is your experience of a "fast" car? No offense, but you drive a NA, econo-box Honda, not my idea of a performance machine in the least bit (but a great point a to point b machine).

_Quote, originally posted by *RPA-Professional* »_ Audi is spending way too much time on their luxury, and to be frank, the luxury isn't even that nice for the price they are selling.

Audi's interiors are light years ahead of BMW, but definitely not Mercedes. The interiors are hardly anything to scoff at.
I took a ride in my buddies fathers E55 yesterday, and honestly it did not feel THAT much faster then my car (I drive a modified UrS4). But its published HP and TQ numbers are most certainly higher then mine. Its power delivery was most certainly smother and available on a broader range, thanks to the fact it is supercharged. But once my car is past 3,500rpm, I'd bet it'd keep (the E55 does weigh 800 pounds more then my car). The 2.7TT S4 is not very fast in stock form, but it is a turbo car, as any turbo'd car owner knows, the potential for power is only limited by how much money you want to spend and how much reliability you want to lose.
You drove the cars for less then 3 miles, and feel that you can judge them based on that experience alone, that is laughable at best. Did you take them in the twisties and see how they would out handle, in stock form, almost anything else on the road?
Audi does not make drag cars. Audi's do not excel in this field. They are made to be comfortable and capable cars, good on the track, and great for daily driving. If you want a fast car, that will go fast in a straight line, then go buy a nice Camero.


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

European Sports Luxury cars are meant to be drive on the Autobahn, they were tuned on the Nurburgring, leave the stupid straight line stuff to something else...


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## RPA-Professional (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (yumyjagermiester)*

Thats funny that you mention the terrain in which I have driven them. I actually don't think that I had posted anything about that. By the way, the roads that I have driven them on are curved and hilled. There are also straights. Therefore I do have a feel for the way the cars drive. My experience of fast is the 911 GT3, that is the fastest car I have driven. I don't know but I agree with Bullz on this one because just give me a fast car with genuine interior, not necessarily ALL LEATHER with navigation and 12 clocks, and heated seats, and cup holders. You don't need all that crap. If you know something about German cars, you'd know that original German cars did not have cup holders in them. This is because driving is an experience! It's not something to sip coffee with. That is why i complain about the Audi cars, they are nothing more than luxury. Ok so obviously its better than a civic, but I bet you are some 38 yr. old rich guy who can afford those heated butt warmers. (KEEP IT WARM?). I'm not old at all, this is the only car that I can afford at the moment. I have driven Audi's millions and millions of times, and I don't see how people are in COMPLETE AWE! of them. Like bullz said, of course they CAN be fast, if you torque them yourself! but im talking stock here. They aren't all that great for the money you have to spend on something that isn't "The EXPERIENCE".


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

for what the S4 is, it is plenty fast. it's meant to compete with the M3 and whatever the MB AMG car is- not a true sports car that's in the same pricerange. these cars are a nice cross between sportiness and luxury.
the GT3 is $100,000+... the S4 new is just over $50,000.
midengine, RWD vs. front engine, AWD and a rear seat & trunk.


_Modified by NoDubJustYet at 4:28 PM 8-16-2004_


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_Audi does not make drag cars. Audi's do not excel in this field. They are made to be comfortable and capable cars, good on the track, and great for daily driving. If you want a fast car, that will go fast in a straight line, then go buy a nice Camero.









I don't see why anyone should discredit a car for its straight-line ability. The last generation F-bodys are still kicking ass in SCCA events left and right and they are pleasure to drive not only in straight lines but around curves. 294 whp and .94 lateral g's stock? Show me a $20,000 Audi that can do the same. 
Why does everyone always say that Audis are exempt from being judged by their straight line performance? Its the same excuse I hear about the Dahlback Golf when it fails to perform - Oh its built for road racing, not drag racing. So what? The Champion Audi R8 runs a low 10-second 1/4 mile and then pulls 1.7g's laterally on the track.
Straight line performance is something Audis don't excel at because of only 2 factors. The first is weight of body and accessories....the luxury factor. The second is quattro. It gobbles up power like no other! Drivetrain losses are quite high on ANY AWD car, and it is for this reason that the S4 is not a "fast" car. 26% drivetrain loss. A comparable RWD setup would have 15-18% drivetrain loss, a FWD Audi would have 14-16% loss (due to the long-mount/transaxle design), and a transverse mount FWDer would have 10-14%. So its easy to see that drivetrain choice would affect performance. Quattro makes the car easier to drive fast, but ultimately makes the car slower.
Don't take me for an Audi hater! There are few other marques I would even consider placing my loyalty in and I could never afford any of them







I think they do what they do exceptionally well. I just think they should do something else too


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## Fusilier (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (billzcat1)*

bAHHH.
Here is where I stand on this..
When I drive in luxury I drive this








And when i want to drive fast, I drive this








IMO, Audi does make luxury cars and they make race cars.
There is no such thing as a luxurious race car. I do like the concept of a fast luxury car, but its not a race car like a GT3 and there is no comparison between the two.
James


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## bodea_florian (Aug 17, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impresive? (RPA-Professional)*

Try a RS4/6 plus,ABT, or a TT BIMOTO 1000HP


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (Fusilier)*

Fusilier - what would you think if Audi could produce a new model that embodied the spirit of the Ur-Quattro? Good build quality, tunable bulletproof powerplant and drivetrain, and with a modern multi-link suspension that Audi is getting so good at making? Granted...it probably wouldn't make a good rally car, but don't you think Audi could make a nice street car that weighed 2800lbs? It would be the Audi-ized version of the Lotus 7







leaps and bounds lighter than anything they currently build.
I'm not saying Audis are a bad car here. But a lighter car offers so many performance benefits in every category. Audi's marketing department has already determined I am wrong. They wouldn't sell them. The nature of Audis model line up has changed significantly from even the early 90s (a grim time for the company, but still great cars) or the mid 80s (Audi's first boon in USA).
I suppose this thread should just die. It seems there are a lot of die-hard fans that are too easily offended.


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## RPA-Professional (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (billzcat1)*

Yeah it probably should just die. I like your opinions, probably because they go with mine. haha. It may be weird for Audi if they had something like what we want in their line since the other cars would really match its style. But just as any other car company there is a car that goes above and beyond the standard driver. Like for the "cheap" honda, you have the S2000 (speaking about stock only). Audi might as well just make something like we want, Until then I don't think I really want to purchase a new Audi. Don't get me wrong, I like the cars for what they are, the are decent luxury cars. Not a problem, Audi did a good job with that. But as a company Audi should have their sights aimed on all possible buyers. Having a car like this in the line isn't probably a bad idea.


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## Fusilier (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (billzcat1)*

Billz,
I think a car should be designed for a purpose. A less expensive performance car is a possibility and it would be a direct competitor to a WRX and EvO which we all know are essentially copycats Urquattros. Theres nothing fundamentally wrong with the Japanese cars, but I find them very boring. So the question would really be what could Audi build now so that its not like another Evo or Sti? The obvious answer is a superlight aluminum frame 2 door car 5 cylinder 20V motor with a mid-engine mount and new VC quattro drive system with variable split, add in a sequential pair of turbos and it would be fantastic. However, I'm a believer that one of the "options" for the car should be a stripped interior with kevlar shells and a full race setup keeping the weight around 1100 kgs. The S1 E2 was approaching 1000kgs so that weight goal shouldn't be a problem.
But, We all know that Ferraris and other supercoupes are quite heavy with oodles of HP. I also don't think marketing a low HP, light car is a good way to go. Its got to have the HP numbers so it sells along with the light weight to give it the performance it needs in all categories. I think the low HP numbers is a real problem on the Elise and the non-tunable motor isn't that appealing either. Any 2.2 liter straight 5 turbo will make tons of HP.
But, if I were to buy a car that I drive around everyday and I had only one car to buy, I'd probably go with a high HP, quattro cruiser that seats 4 comfortably. Even if it weighs 4000 lbs. I think the A4,A6 and A8 all fall into that category with some minor differences. So, As a stopgap measure, Audi would do well to try to shave about 300lbs off of all their cars while adding about 75HP to all models to make them more competitive in the Power to weight ratio. To the vast majority of the market those "number" don't really matter. Audis are selling like crazy now, so clearly they are building cars that the market wants. Us purists and those of us who want performance are confused cause the cars currently coming out of Ingolstadt aren't the tunable performance cars like the homologation specials of the early 80s; however, I love my A8L as a daily driver. 
James "not offended" Bufkin


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_I suppose this thread should just die. It seems there are a lot of die-hard fans that are too easily offended. 








indeed


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (MFZERO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MFZERO* »_







indeed









Yup, let it die and I won't have to lock it.


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (RPA-Professional)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RPA-Professional* »_But as a company Audi should have their sights aimed on all possible buyers.

What a silly idea! Each auto company should make a car for all parts of the market? Do you really believe that statement? So you saying Audi should make the A8L and then make a sub $20k car for entry level Audi lovers? Man I'd love it if you ran Audi, the used cars would be undervalued even more then they are now. If you want a lower priced German made car, but a Volkswagen. They make plenty of low priced, fast cars (read: lightweight and good potential), and pink on the luxury factor so people can still afford to throw in a nice set of aftermarket Recaros. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (duandcc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duandcc* »_
Yup, let it die and I won't have to lock it.









That's pretty sad that you think a lively discussion should be locked. We never had this type of problem before. Unless their are personal attacks or insults or threats, why should it be locked?


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (yumyjagermiester)*

Yummy...yummy...yummy...have you no clue? Notice the







at the end...I was being PLAYFUL. Sheesh..


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## RPA-Professional (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (duandcc)*

I didn't mean that they should make a $20k car just for people who want to ride an Audi. I meant that each car they have now serves a different purpose...am I right? So hit that other section of people who money isn't the deal, it's high performance/less luxury. I'm not saying that prices have to go down, thats retarded. They just need to improve a little.


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

perhaps audi wants to keep the sports cars to the LeMans R8, DTM TT, and the Speed Challenge A4 & RS6.
i'm thinking that with the new TT and facelifted A4 they'll lean towards a more sporty look and performance.
One of you that wants an ueber sports car, what exactly do you want? i'm confused...
the RS6 is a beast. the S4 is up there with the M3. The next RS6 is said to have a Lambo engine. what kind of car do you want to see?


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: (NoDubJustYet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoDubJustYet* »_
One of you that wants an ueber sports car, what exactly do you want? i'm confused...
what kind of car do you want to see?

Well I thought I had explained what I was looking for, but maybe not. Bear in mind my idea is for a sports coupe.
I want an aluminum body, and I'll pay the extra $200 for its manufacture straight to Audi.
I want modern suspension. Audi has some brilliant multilink suspension these days.
I want an all-aluminum powerplant. They do it on the V8s, I don't see why we can't save 80 lbs on the 4 cyl and 100 lbs on V6 as well. Make it sleeved. I'll pay the slight weight penalty for the ability to rebuild the motor or put new pistons in easily.
I want to be able to hear the engine, even at idle or cruise conditions. This doesn't mean a loud exhaust. Just please make less effort to disconnect my ears from my right foot.
Power? 220-240 hp in a 3000-3200 lb package. Thi car does not have to be lightning fast. Just quick, and reasonably nimble (something I've never felt in an Audi). Turbocharged powerplant would be a bonus for upgradability. I want engine management that utilizes speed-density for fuel control - no more MAF.
I want the car to be able to seat 2 comfortably, and 4 uncomfortably. 
I want comfortable seats that dont weigh 73 lbs each. They could even be manual adjust. As long as they function smoothly and easily. 
I want less power assist in the brakes and steering. Less damping in the steering rack, and a quicker ratio rack. More connection to the road, so to speak.
I want an interior that is well assembled and doesn't look plasticy. I wasn't impressed by the interior in the 03 A4 3.0 I rode in a few weeks ago, although it did have great headroom. Power windows a must. AC a must. 
I don't want heated mirrors or heated washer nozzles or headlight washers. I don't want an air conditioned steering wheel, or multi-zone climate control. I don't want DVD, or navigation system. Sunroof? meh I can live without. Powered trunk lid? no thanks!
I suppose the moral of the story is that I want something Audi will never build - a modern equivalent of an Ur-Q or S2. A car that is comfortable but not overloaded with creature comforts. And please don't suggest a VW - I've never been further from the road than when driving products from VW's current model line.


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

what if they sold a stripped down S4, kinda like what BMW did with the M3 a few years ago? 
nevermind- it sounds like you want an entirely new package...
perhaps with VW's futile attempt at pushing into the luxury market Audi can lean more towards a sporty segment?
even though you said not to suggest a VW, I'm curious as to what will become of the ConceptR? maybe there will be an Audi version...
also... what price range/class are you shooting for?
beat up on the S2000 and Miata $20-35,000 range or
$50,000+ take out a Carrera range?
I guess that was what was confusing me...


_Modified by NoDubJustYet at 7:39 PM 8-17-2004_


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## Fusilier (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: (NoDubJustYet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoDubJustYet* »_the RS6 is a beast. the S4 is up there with the M3. The next RS6 is said to have a Lambo engine. what kind of car do you want to see?

Good points. To many people, the RS6-M5, S4-M3 are mute points. Its such a matter of subjection cause one car is not clearly superior to the other. Especially if you compared a full spec Race machine, ala Champions RS6 or the Speed GT M3....
So, as far as street machines go, they are pretty close with one exception. That would be a sub 3000lb two-door AWD turbo car.
James


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (duandcc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duandcc* »_Yummy...yummy...yummy...have you no clue? Notice the







at the end...I was being PLAYFUL. Sheesh..









Oops, sorry, thought you were serious <we need a "blushes" emoticon>


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_

I want the car to be able to seat 2 comfortably, and 4 uncomfortably. 
















thats awesome richard







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
nobody seems to be mentioning the a3/s3 at all in this thread. personally I wish we could get those in this country. more so the S than the A


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (RPA-Professional)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RPA-Professional* »_So hit that other section of people who money isn't the deal, it's high performance/less luxury.

That is why VAG owns Porsche, to take car of that part of the market.


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_
That is why VAG owns Porsche, to take car of that part of the market.

WHAT???!!!!?
no they don't.
VAG: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Bugatti
VW has never owned Porsche- they have colaborated over the years, but neither company has owned the other...


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (yumyjagermiester)*

Actually, Porsche is its own independant company. PerL had to educate me on this one a while ago, but we'll just call them not-so-distant cousins. Porsche and VAG co-develop products and whatnot and seem to share a very friendly partnership, but they are still two companies. 
When VW purchased Audi in 1968, Audis were originally sold through Porsche dealers in the USA. And of course there are the obvious partnerships - Cayenne/Touareg, Audi RS2, 356/Beetle and the less obvious sharing of drivetrain and maintenance parts for the last 35 years. Drivetrain parts sharing is only natural as both companies use Getrag-built manual transmissions and I'm sure Porsche uses ZF Automatic/Tiptronics just like Audi. The transaxles of 924 and 944 are 016-series, the 968 has an 01E, and my 1970 100LS transmission is closely related to the 914 transmission (whatever odd series that was).
While I suppose my requirements for a car could be fulfilled by a Porsche, my bank account doesn't allow for such a purchase. Depreciated Audis are AWESOME!!















[edit] damn NoDub beat me to it










_Modified by billzcat1 at 5:22 PM 8-17-2004_


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## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: (MFZERO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MFZERO* »_














thats awesome richard







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
nobody seems to be mentioning the a3/s3 at all in this thread. personally I wish we could get those in this country. more so the S than the A









I love being eccentric.
Supposedly the 05 (or was it 06?) A3 is coming to the US as a 5-door hatch only. Given the GREAT amount of fun I (didn't) have driving a modded 03 GTI 1.8t I can't say I'm holding my breath. Of course, maybe they totally changed the character of the A/S3 when they put the Audi badge on the VW chassis.







Plus Haldex is an insult to quattro drivers everywhere


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (NoDubJustYet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoDubJustYet* »_VW has never owned Porsche- they have colaborated over the years, but neither company has owned the other...

Wow, that is wacky. I can't believe that!
How sure are you they were NEVER under the same umbrella? After all,







did also start Volkswagen, as well as the company of his namesake.


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

Ferdinand Porsche didn't start VW... the British occupying military and Ferdinand's son got modern VW running after WWII. Before the war the TypeI was developed by Porsche but after the war the British rebuilt the factory in Wolfsburg and VW went from there. In the same time frame the Porsche company started in Zuffenhausen/Stuttgart- the 356 shared an engine and chassis with the Kafer. Volkswagen was never under the corporate umbrella of Porsche or vice versa...
as bilzcat mentioned, VW and Porsche have shared development and parts since the beginning. BUT neither company has owned the other. if you don't believe me please see this webpage: http://www.pommert.de/virtualia/garage/
You will see that Porsche is an independant entity.


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## RPA-Professional (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (NoDubJustYet)*

Keep this thread open, its the longest running I've seen for a while. I haven't driven the RS6, I'm disappointed. Oh well the arguement doesn't really have an ending because no one cares haha. Audi is a great company for what they make. Porsche is a great company for what they make. So I guess if I'm looking for that High performance/Less luxury deal, I'll just buy a Porsche. Keep it going if you guys hate me for it hahaha. I guess no body shut this thread down, its just my stupid computer.


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_







Plus Haldex is an insult to quattro drivers everywhere















indeed


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: 2001 S4. Not impressive? (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_That is why VAG owns Porsche, to take car of that part of the market.

Ban Yummy! He certainly would have asked for me to be banned if I goofed that bad... (JOKING!!!!!!!)...


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (MFZERO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MFZERO* »_
nobody seems to be mentioning the a3/s3 at all in this thread. personally I wish we could get those in this country. more so the S than the A









Why would I want a tarted up Golf?


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: (duandcc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duandcc* »_
Why would I want a tarted up Golf?

good question, why do people spend $50,000+ on a tarted up Passat?


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (NoDubJustYet)*

More money than brains?


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## PitViper (Sep 6, 2002)

Here's my take:
it's really a tale of two audis (as in the company)
Audi 1995 and earlier: foundation of performance and drivability with a lesser emphasis on luxury.
Audi 1996 to present day: foundation as luxury car with less emphasis on performance.


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## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

where do the S and RS models fall into the tail of two Audi's?


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