# Any 16v all motor guys still out there?



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

Not sure why i cant see the old zerothreads with this new vortex set up but anyways... I was just trying to find some build threads or dyno sheets of some 16v all motor set ups. I just recently got into a 16v mk2 gti and need to do some reading. 

I had to resort to youtube for a little bit while the search here blows harder than before, but i saw some guys putting down 190 whp with some mild work. Anyone know of anyone who has done better or can point me in the right direction for searching?


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

2+ liters, a fuel enrichment circuit, a professionally ported head, 276 cams, 11-11.5:1 compression, a 50mm intake, good exhaust and CIS-E will deliver your number to the crank and about 150 to the wheels. Carbs or better yet SEM and ITBs can easily get you to 225+ at the crank.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

i like the idea of carbs and ITBS plus maybe like to look in to some MS set ups. Any pros and cons between carbs vs itbs with the 16v?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

Im running a 1.8L 16v, 14:1cr, heavily ported head, stock valves, hd springs, ti retainers, lw lifter, CAT 283/279 cams. and it dynoed at 174whp/141torque on carbs. Im currently switching to MS, Building a new header, and custom equal length intake mani, with a Q45 TB. when all is said and done, im shooting for 200whp outta my new setup.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

Damn sounds pretty sweet dude. Im wondering about the 45 weber set ups id like to get my hands on some of them and try to shoot what v-dubbin is looking for 200whp, or somewhere around there haha.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

It can be done. Just take lots of $$$$$$$$


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

We're working on a 1.8 16V, tt288* cams, bottom-end balanced, some port work to head, MS w/ GSXR TB's, tt 4-1 race header, stock CR. When we first rebuilt and swapped it into the 80' Scirocco this motor made 123whp on stock intake and exhaust mani's and CIS, stock cams. Oh, and the IM shaft is balanced. Later we added exhaust cam swap and the header and a "Velocity ported" TB. Those mods did make a diff, but we never dyno'd again. The head was in it's mild ported state then, so no change to it other than some new intake valves to replace the bent ones and the new cams. When it gets running and tuned I will post up the results and pics.

I know with the stock CR we won't be getting all we can, but it'll live on premium pump gas and were able to spend the extra money other places. The car is for auto-x/hillclimb car and will run in either SMF or later in a Prepared or Mod class, thus why we stayed with the PL, lower min weight for all classes. We do have a 9A motor avail and an ABA short block, but as I said, weight was the main factor. And we should have more than enough power, I'm hoping for somewhere around 150-160whp.

edit:
OK, pics, here is where the cars is at right now: the exhaust is built, but from the 3 bolt flange back has been dropped off to get silver ceramic coating to match the header. The intake mani needs to get modified to point fwd and fit under the hood better(the hood can close, it just mashes the filters and rubber velocity stacks). The ABF water outlet is wrong, so the other one will be cut and welded when the intake mani is done. And wire the MS....


































Hope you don't consider this a threadjacking,,,


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## RhodyVW (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm building a 16v PL running GSXR carbs. Custom grind 260ish* cams, Techtonic tuning p&p head, .5 oversized supertech valves, high rev springs, Ti retainers, Lightweight lifters, Stock rebuild bottom end with lightened crank and intermediate shaft. I dont know what the CR is b/c the head has been decked a little, but it is more than stock.

Should be a blast!!!


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## veedubman91 (Apr 6, 2002)

currently almost done on my engine build and will be back in the mk2 soon, then we can get it tuned and hopefully dyno'd. i am running a 9a, stock bottom end fully rebuilt, full port and polished head, 5 angle valve job, autotech sport cams, hd springs, all new internals, autotech tri-y header, stock port matched intake manifold and running ms v2.2. i know that this is not some crazy build (it is my summer/show car) but it should be a nice driver


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## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

i have a 12:1 Cr, Je pistons, 289 / 285 cat cams, solid lifters, 2mm oversized manley valves, hardcore ported and gas flowed head, TT springs and Ti retainers, Eagle rods and balanced crank, lightined int. shaft and billet pullies, 50mm intake on megasquirt. just shy of 300hp at the crank


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

damn love what everyone is doing, 300 to the crank !!!!??? thats nuts man i wana see some pics. thanks for this info guys keep it coming if its out there


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## nykid10466 (Mar 9, 2008)

highly appreciate this thread


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## 16ValveInside (Nov 20, 2004)

oh yea we're still out here, check out my build thread for current updates:thumb:


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## HondaSlayer85 (Sep 16, 2009)

ahh if i only had the money. building a 16v n/a is har to do because of the cost of parts, those same numbers can be reached with a g-ladder, or a turbo setup. 

you wont have as much fun in a turbo car though thats for sure.

if you got the money id say 12:1cr, larger valves, port and polish, high rev valve springs, slightly knifed edged or lightined crank, 50mm intake, lightined flywheel, int. shaft and lightined pulleys. and up the displacement. the biggest 16v i have heard of someone doing was 2.3l .


like i said if i only had the money. im going to g-ladder my 9a, with minor ugrades to the motor itself. this was my second choice, as i started looking into the price in parts for a n/a build.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

I have thought about doing a G60 but i cant get enough of a N/A car, especially a 16v haha. I just got into my mk2 bought it off a guy on here, its got full digi 1 and it moves pretty good i must say(coming from a mk3 2.slow) id like to get around 200 but keep it a daily lol. I got some reading to do, ill be checking out most of these guys build threads if you have any. Keep the info coming guys!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I've been out of a 16v for years now.. but I keep an eye on the forum because a lot more people in here mess with engines than some of the other forums where slapping on turbos is the answer. It is good to see people still having fun with these old engines.

To the guy above who claims 300 crank HP.. that's some good crack you smoked.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

haha yea im not saying anything agaisnt him but id like to see a dyno sheet and some pics of the motor. just shy of 300 crank is anywhere from 225-240 WHP. I know guys who make 225 to the wheels all motor with these so who knows but still cool as **** haha.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

With a 15% driveline loss, it really 255whp. A graph would be nice to see. And 15% is a high # for that. As far as I'm concerned, anything over 200whp all motor from one of these 16V motors in a mkI or II(even a III) will be quite fun. And going too far up the hp chain would deff make the motor unfit for dd or even semi-dd duty.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

Yea i was doing 18% drivetrain loss. But yea 200-225 whp in a mk2 is amazing in its self for a 16v all motor. i cant wait =]


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## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

its very good crack actually, and when you can run 12's on a all motor 16v you'll know how good crack can be


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

haha damn, get some pics and a video up man! I wana see this beast


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Lets see the dyno charts as well as pictures of said beast. 200whp is really involved to get on a 16v and typically includes multiple throttlebodies with short stacks. Anything much over that gets tricks such as dry sump, etc. 

300bhp all motor on a unmodified 50mm intake would be a sight to see.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

yea i dont know much about these motors but seems like its hard to break 210ish whp with out intake mods as far as carbs ITBS or anything along them lines


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## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

the 50mm intake is only used untill my other one is finished. i would go ITB's but i dont like them that much. i dont have a dyno sheet tho... a lot of good that does eh


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

MK1 Rabbit GTI said:


> i dont have a dyno sheet



Then you don't have 300bhp either.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

no hate in here haha. I wana see some dyno sheets from anyone thats making over 150 whp with specs =)


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## vitocorneleus (Nov 19, 2004)

I made 154whp and 145tq the last time I strapped the car down, but my fueling was off. It should be a little higher now. 12:1cr JE's, P&P, schrick 276's, lightened and knifed crank, The list goes on, but pretty much everything except itb's and standalone. I'll try and dig up my dyno sheet. Hopefully I didn't lose it when I moved. You have to remember that these cars are getting old. You can make more power in a newer car for the same or less money. You have to be really passionate about them to go this route.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

Because i love whoring out my motor. Ill post my dyno sheet and a pic of the motor. I already posted specs earlier. This is how it was about a year ago, there have been alot of changes sense then.

















and hell, here's a dyno run video too.


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## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

it was an old engine dyno, no printer sorry.

your a/f seems off at 5800. get that sorted out?


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

nice numbers, thanks for the video and sheet post up. Im going to be buying another scrap head and start to build it up, gas flowed p&p, valves and valve job. i hope to make close to what you guys have some time soon! More sheets if there out there please


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

MK1 Rabbit GTI said:


> just shy of 300hp at the crank


Is that estimated or do you have some dyno sheets to prove it? pics of your setup? sounds might fun!


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## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

no dyno sheets, motor "looks" stock so i duno what pics will do. 
im planning to get it on a mustang dyno for further tuning, as long as i make 200whp i'll be happy.
also, while on the engine dyno, i wasnt using an alt. or water pump, so that will effect it also


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

well 200 whp is a little less than just shy of 300 bhp sorry to say =/ but anything over 150 seems pretty fun id have to say. id like to see some break or get close to 200 with out ITBs or Carbs


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

MK1 Rabbit GTI said:


> it was an old engine dyno, no printer sorry.
> 
> your a/f seems off at 5800. get that sorted out?


That was how i left it for 10 passes or so until my welded diff couldnt take it anymore. now its all torn apart again new intake, Megasquirt, Custom built out the fender header. I lost my digi camera when i moved, so i havent been able to take any new pics of the motor. Ill probably start a new build thread once i get another camera.


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## vwpieces (Apr 20, 2002)

I started rebuilding a 9a I've had sitting around for too many years. Will be NA but pretty much all stock. I did buy the TT intake cam & will be doing some porting on the head & scirocco intake. Also have a euro 16V CIS to use on it. Going into a MK1 Jetta with scirocco parts. Hmmm wish I kept that 50mm intake...


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

anyone see any gains from TT race headers? its one of the only things i oticed people didnt have listed in the specs


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Go back and look at my post, they are in there. And there was a gain on the butt dyno and the exhaust note changed quite a bit too. Much more "aggressive".


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

I am still here. The last time I dyno'd I was around 160whp but I wasn't very happy with that. It was falling flat in the mid to upper RPM range. I have since made a bunch of changes but the major ones include: replaced my Eurosport header with a TT one; changed my cams from Schrick 276's to TT 276/268's; and had my head re-P&P'd with Supertech .5mm oversized and undercut valves but this time had it flow benched before and after. The first P&P was by a shop in WA and it actually flowed worse than a stock head in certain valve lift ranges. Now the head has had a second go-round by Jarod at SCCH and he has made a HUGE improvement so I'm excited to get it back on the rollers very soon.

Here are some flow graphs for my head,


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

wow those flow numbers tell it all!


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

nice stuff guys keep it coming if you got it


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

Any have any feed back on the Autotech SportTuned 2.0L Engine Kits for 1.8L Engines. It claims 170 hp and a 10.8:1 CR all from JE pistons and a 2.0 crank shaft, IF combined with cams, intake, and exhaust. With a gas flowed and p&p head i wonder what kind of numbers you could put down. Any comments or input in this conversion kit?:laugh:


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## vwpieces (Apr 20, 2002)

Stussy NJ said:


> Any have any feed back on the Autotech SportTuned 2.0L Engine Kits for 1.8L Engines. It claims 170 hp and a 10.8:1 CR all from JE pistons and a 2.0 crank shaft, IF combined with cams, intake, and exhaust. With a gas flowed and p&p head i wonder what kind of numbers you could put down. Any comments or input in this conversion kit?:laugh:


Sounds like the most important parts required to achiexe the 170HP are not included. Start with a good 2.0L bottom end... add the "IF" parts to that.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

yea i kinda thought if i found a 2.0 bottom end id kinda have most of that "conversion" kit all but the pistons right?


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## vwpieces (Apr 20, 2002)

yup. & no machine work. I was fortunate to have a nice original 9A bottom end as my foundation for my current build. Saved a pile of money this time around. It did need rings & at $134/set I thought that was expensive for just rings. But good round bores & no ridge makes me happy. 

Got it painted up last night. New bolts in the rods. Lost a friggin pin clip :banghead: heard it wizz past my ear. Of course it was the first one I took off & made damn sure not to loose any more. Got a hole in my finger to proove it. I think I am going to opt for the industrial internal snap rings on reassenbly.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

haha nice. Well the mk2 i just picked up has a rebuilt head with hd springs ti retainers digi 1 conversion and im willing to bet money it has cams(what ones? im not sure of) The head has less than 2k miles on it so i got a nice start. The bottom end has around 140k. I hope to start building it up soon not exactly sure where to start tho lol. Its also got a completely custom exhaust from the headers all the way back to a side exit(its loud... like really loud... but i love) so like i said i got a good start or at lest i feel as though i do


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

from reading peoples stuff and just a little bit of searching a lot of people agree that a 2.0 bottom end is the best bang for the buck apparently. The code is a 9a from what im reading? 

So with that said ill be keeping my eyes out for one of those in the classifieds. Along with a spare head, upper and lower intakes to get some gas flowed p&p action going on. With what i have and what i plan on doing stated above id like to see what it puts down for whp. All to come in the near future.

Lets keep some builds/suggestions coming!!


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

First pages of my build, are engine build only...
I have TT race headers Webers, some mild head work, MSD 6AL + 8660 & 8960.
No idea on numbers, but the Rocco sure is fun like hell!
Torque is more present than top end, because of the 40's

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4217668-Mk1-getting-some-glitter-back...


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

I had an all motor 9A up til last year when I swapped it out for an all motor vr6.

Specs were 
9A blocked bored out for 83mm wiseco 11:1 forged pistons
shaved and ported head
3 angle valve job
TT exhaust
mk3 accessories with underdrive pulley
l/w flywheel
autotech cams
50mm upper manifold
TT custom burn chip
2Y trans with 3.94 &p
and a bunch of other stuff here and there, that I cant remember at the moment

Never dynoed it or took it to the track but it was a fun car, gave alot of people run for there money. The 3.94 r&p really woke the thing up, it probally woulda be able to keep up with my current allmotor vr6.


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

damn sounds pretty sweet, where did you pic up that trans?


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## vwpieces (Apr 20, 2002)

My 83 Jetta is done & on the road. Well... not done, but All mechanicals have been rebuilt or replaced. 

9A 2.0L rebuilt bottom end, all stock.
1.8 16V head
Swirl polished & undercut valves, unshrouded a little.
3 angle cut seats. 
Upper & lower intake runners polished & matched. Also matched to head. 
I also did some porting on the head, nothing major & most was on the exhaust side. 
TT fuel enrichment
TT equal length street header
TT 2.25 exhaust resonator & FlowMaster, no cat
Autotech sport cams
Light flywheel
aluminum crank & alt pulleys in a serpentine setup. 
ACT yellow pressure plate with a stock disc. I chose not to use the 6 puck disc & opted for a stock Sachs. It is city driveable & locks-up well enough under load. 
Waiting on some backordered Autotech Aluminum Cam & intermediate shaft pulleys. 

Running on CIS-E 
Traction is an issue in 1st or 2nd even with 100 something traction yoko AVS
I am extremely happy with it. I did all the engine work myself, everything... 
Pulls hard from 3500 to redline

Perhaps a dyno run will happen once I recover from the build

Still not 100% in these pics, but Nothing recent since it is officially on the road. Having too much fun driving it.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

The TRAKS Clothing/RalleyTuned race car has a new heart. Ran it's first event this weekend :thumbup:

9a bottom with wossner 12:1 and integrated rods
Head ported by Jake (aka TURBOCADDY on here)
276 cams
Megasquirt
50mm Intake

173whp/139wtq on a mix of 110 and 92 (3gal to 2gal)



I'll post some in-car from the weekend of him beating up on some 911's :thumbup:


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## URIN 2ND (Oct 29, 2001)

-RalleyTuned- said:


> The TRAKS Clothing/RalleyTuned race car has a new heart. Ran it's first event this weekend :thumbup:
> 
> 9a bottom with wossner 12:1 and integrated rods
> Head ported by Jake (aka TURBOCADDY on here)
> ...



Very nice!!!

And to the crack addict claiming 300bhp...that setup sounds like you're probably in the realm of 200-210whp, which is realistically around 220-230bhp. I don't know who told you to use 40% for a driveline loss figure, but my coast-downs have always been 9-11% on FWD VW's.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

I forgot to come back and post the vids haha First race on the new motor, car was almost 4 sec faster than the last time we raced here with the 8v. The dyno tuning put in waaaay too much timing and actually we found out after this weekend that we had 4 melted pistons. It was re-tuned and made a few more hp. final number was 179.5whp/139wh/tq. I miss typed the first torque number it was actually 134iirc. :beer:

enjoy 






the car sliding through the cicane at PIR









More improvements coming this winter :thumbup:


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

-RalleyTuned- said:


> enjoy


I did!


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## Youngfonza (Jan 23, 2005)

HondaSlayer85 said:


> ahh if i only had the money. building a 16v n/a is har to do because of the cost of parts, those same numbers can be reached with a g-ladder, or a turbo setup.
> 
> you wont have as much fun in a turbo car though thats for sure.
> 
> ...


A 2.3L! Not sure the formula, but I just finished my 16v project a couple weeks ago: 9a block balanced, decked and punched to 83.5. 10.8:1 CR, lightened and balanced 95.5 crank shaft. lightly PP head w/ new high flow valve guides, and lght weight lifters and hd valve springs, with a mild autotech cam set up, a 50mm intake, I have most of the other bolt ons. I cant think of all the details at his moment, but I'll put my dyno sheet down once I break my motor in and get it dyno'd. Right now I'm trying to figure out this stupid water leak coming from the plastic flange off the water pump. I just wanna drive this beast..


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## URIN 2ND (Oct 29, 2001)

I was gonna do the "dual exhaust cam" thing, but I can't seem to find Weeblebiker. Anyone know if he's still around? PMd him and no reply?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

well, becuase I love showing off my new engine setup. Here it is:

Before:









and After:









Went from carbs to MS
custome equal length intake mani, based on a corolla intake, Q45 throttle body(85mm)
and built a custom header that exits out the fender (it loud):laugh:

Other than that engine stayed the same, old setup made 173whp, new setup made 177whp @ 7000rpm, was still climbing fast, had an issue with a setting in the MS that wouldnt allow it to rev past 7k. my guess is it should make around 190whp now that it will rev to 8500 like it should.

oh, and fyi, its a 1.8L:laugh:


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## nick526 (Sep 29, 2006)

I'm building up an ABF 2.0 16v for my Mk1:

Stage 3 SCCH head (Jarrod's a mad scientist)
.5mm oversize, undercut supertech intake and exhaust valves
supertech HD springs
ti retainers
INA lightweight lifters
Schrick 260/276 cams
11:1 compression
83.5mm JE forged pistons
Integrated rifle drilled H-beam rods
balanced intermediate shaft
port matched, smooth runner 52mm ABF manifold
Stock ABF throttle
TT 4-1 header

Gonna run on megasquirt.

The ABF makes 150 hp stock, hopefull to reach the 180s (and to finish the damn thing :laugh


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## URIN 2ND (Oct 29, 2001)

nick526 said:


> I'm building up an ABF 2.0 16v for my Mk1:
> 
> Stage 3 SCCH head (Jarrod's a mad scientist)
> .5mm oversize, undercut supertech intake and exhaust valves
> ...



You should be closer to 180 wheels than 180 crank with that setup! :thumbup: I'm fairly new to 16V's but it seems you're certainly in the 160-170whp category as far as parts & management goes.


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## nick526 (Sep 29, 2006)

I'd like to think so. However, it makes 0 hp and 0 tq on the engine stand


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

i would have to say best bang for buck bottom end would be 9a pistons in aba block with tdi crank. then put all your money in management and head work. this will be my next motor for the daily after the 9a 16v digiII swap and the paint gets finished.


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

I have a 9a on aba obd1 managment, 02a with 4.24 and peloquin diff. abf intake, serp belt to name a few.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

what did you use for crank trigger?


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

http://s288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/austin70780/Crank trigger and serp belt modification/

034 crank trigger kit and bbm serp pulley were both modded to accomadate each other as the 034 was meant for v-belt. bbm was designed to be used only with the aba ps pulley.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I like this thread  

138whp here. going to redyno in april with numerous tweaks to the ignition/carbs/cam timing and hope to break 150whp


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

My latest project came to life last week end; 
I got a second Roccco Mk1 (Clone of my street silver Mk1 Rocco ) for track only... 

ABA block 
1.9 TDi crank Light weighted, and balanced (stroker  ) 
ABA con rods Light weighted & balanced 
Wossner 84.00mm ABF pistons 12.4:1 modified by yours truely, because of the stroker crank (I got about 13.5:1 ATM) 250PSI+ compression, must use C12 fuel. 
16V Big valve kit Autotech with HD springs & Ti retainers 
Schrick 276's 
Mild work on the head 
Lightened & balanced flywheel 
Weber 45's (maxed out on venturi's & jetting) 
TT race headers 
Edis4 ignition with Megajolt V3 with MAP 
2Y tranny with 3.94 FD & Wavetrac 
800# Pressure plate & carbon friction disc... 

Etc... 
Full cage 
Car is pretty much fully built...  

Vid of first stat last week end; 
Scheduled for dyno within the next month, will post up #'s... 
I got an approximate idea on what it should put out, but can't wait to see the real numbers


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## D. Collins (Nov 14, 2010)

Sounds like a beast!


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## Scirocco53 (Mar 9, 2002)

NA is the way to rock. I have a dyno sheet somewhere that shows 212WHP, and that was with the throttle plates over rotated. My goal is 250WHP, but I need to put together a dry sump system to keep the motor well lubricated.


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

NA is tricky to say the least. I would say that after watching this forum for many years that the number of people claiming anything over 170whp and those actually proving it are at least 100-1. 

I built what I wanted to be a STOUT street motor. ABA block & rods, tdi crank, PnP 9A head, ABF cams, TT race headers and 2 1/4 no res, running digi-1 (big mistake, shoulda done some kind of SEM). I have a low-ish rev limit of 7200 and I should run 92 oct pump, but they quit selling it during the years it took me to get it togther, so I mix 104 with 90 and that works pretty good. When I dyno'd the car last fall it only made 124whp, but I had serious fueling issues that have since been cleaned up. My best guess is that I'm near 145 now, which in the gutted mk1 feels awesome with a 2H trans. 

I think too many people get hung up on numbers and not what actually drives good. Maybe I'm just justifying my own "low" numbers, but my car feels fast, sounds great and impresses the people who have seen it run on the track so that is plenty good for me. But I can't help but admit that I want to throw in more cam, put in the 50mm, and run the revs out to 8ish :laugh:. We'll have to see. I do have an extra 50mm upper and want to do the Powerdubs intake mod for more top end, but being burdened with this chip burning crap makes that difficult for me. 

And for the record, scirocco53's dyno of 212whp (from like 6+ years ago) is the best I have ever seen NA on here. Not saying it's a world record, but he backs his shiz up. :thumbup:


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

Here is where I'm currently at.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

peak torque at 6500 rpm!? mine is 120wtq at 5700, i cant imagine what tacking on an additional 1000rpms to that would be like. awesome im sure!


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

My set up 9A 2.0 16v. The highest WHP it has seen is 190whp. Had to back it down to 185whp tell i get the motor all broke in. then i am going to try and push the 200whp. I would list all my mods out but this is easier. Plus the dyno sheet is here.. 
http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=23054&sid=0b621cef3ec33c2791290ce8af39422c


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

this is a great thread guys, good to see it revived 

i have an all motor aba16v in a mk3 gti 
aba block & rods 
tdi 95.5 stroke crank (lightened & ballanced) 
9a head p&p, multi angle valve job 
dual exhaust cam conversion 
t.t. light weight adj. cam gear 
raceland 4-2-1 header 
flowmaster highflow converter 
t.t. 2.25 exhaust 
16v intake with aba snout welded on, to fit aba throttlebody 
aba management with t.t. aba16v chip 
bbm fuel rail with aba inj. 
lightened fly wheel 
4k trans with .71 5th gear and 3.94 final drive 


no dyno sheet but it did [email protected] with a 2.6 60ft on 17" street tires (no traction)


----------



## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

leon whalen said:


> this is a great thread guys, good to see it revived
> 
> i have an all motor aba16v in a mk3 gti
> aba block & rods
> ...


 
That is a cool set up, I ran very close to your time a few years ago with a 1.8 16v. I was at 155whp. That might give you a idea of were you are at. 
I have a ABA Hybrid in my MK2, ABA bottom, G-60 P&P Head, Digi2, TT chip, and a few other goodies. Mind you this is in a Jetta so its a little heavy but i ran a 14.76 @ 98mph running 17" and street tires. I run a taller tranny in all my cars. I find that the 4k, 9A, 2H are way to short for dragging. I run the MK3 CHE trannys in both my cars. I love them. I can do over 100mph in 3rd. 
Nice car and great motor. With Some MS or other stand alone you could make some grate power...


----------



## 16ValveInside (Nov 20, 2004)

good thread, great info in here


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## Sallad (Aug 29, 2004)

Holy guys, some amazing engines here! 

I guess I could say mine is "all motor", but stock "all motor".:laugh: 

I really liked the side exhaust out of the fender. Cool idea.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

Jones84 said:


> That is a cool set up, I ran very close to your time a few years ago with a 1.8 16v. I was at 155whp. That might give you a idea of were you are at.
> I have a ABA Hybrid in my MK2, ABA bottom, G-60 P&P Head, Digi2, TT chip, and a few other goodies. Mind you this is in a Jetta so its a little heavy but i ran a 14.76 @ 98mph running 17" and street tires. I run a taller tranny in all my cars. I find that the 4k, 9A, 2H are way to short for dragging. I run the MK3 CHE trannys in both my cars. I love them. I can do over 100mph in 3rd.
> Nice car and great motor. With Some MS or other stand alone you could make some grate power...


your 183.5whp set up sounds awsome, is that the motor doing 14.3 e/t's in a mkI :thumbup::thumbup:

your 155whp motor, what was that in when you did low 15's?

how much more hp could i expect from stand alone on my current setup, over my chipped stock management?


----------



## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

Going MS is your best bet, put it this way a stock 16v in a mk1 with slicks on MS will runs 13s, proven many times. If you want even more carbs, ITBs, or better yet a custom equal length intake would be your best bet. Im guessing you run this car as a daily so slicks might be out of the question but drag radials go a long way :thumbup:

Very cool to see this thread is still going hopefully after the aba/16vt money pit is done i can join in with a mk1 16v NA.


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

leon whalen said:


> your 183.5whp set up sounds awsome, is that the motor doing 14.3 e/t's in a mkI :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> your 155whp motor, what was that in when you did low 15's?
> 
> how much more hp could i expect from stand alone on my current setup, over my chipped stock management?


 I have not had a chance to hit the track yet with the new set up. I am sure i will be beating my old time. 
155hp was in my MK1 before MS, after i put the MS in i was doing 14.3 on street tires. 

MS is the way to go. I would get it all hooked up and sorted out, no bugs good base tune. Then have it dyno tuned. I thought i was spot on with my tune tell i hit the dyno. I got 45 more hp just by dyno tuning..

Right now i just finished my 16vt in my MK2 jetta, on DIGI1. I will be going MS once i can afford:thumbup: it again.


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Car is not tuned what so ever...
So lean, the wideband wont register a reading...
Its a good thing; I calculated jet sizing (Webers  ) according to air flow, and I m off...
That means I breathe even better than anticipated!

Dyno scheduled for the 30th


----------



## twocamvw (Feb 20, 2002)

i had a 16v in my mk2 jetta. very mild motor and some weight reduction. 14.7s @93mph



i plan on pulling my turbo'd 9a out of my corrado and replacing it with a abf clone on itbs..


----------



## DjBij099 (Jul 21, 2003)

Mine, I bought it this way and am getting ready to tune it middle of may





I had also weighed the car before and came up 2360 with almost a full tank of gas, full interior, and some small stuff in the car. I weigh 200lbs :banghead: :laugh: I took it to Great Lakes Dragaway opening day and managed a best of 15.3 @ 88mph with a 2.3 60ft on 15" street tires.


----------



## Mathew... (Feb 22, 2009)

This thread


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

FF to 4:02 min mark
I'm NA


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

That is awsome, what did you do to the motor to get that much out of it?
My motor is built to the nuts, bored 2.1 16v on MS and i only make 190hp. 
Just wondering what else i could do to make that 200hp+ mark???


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Jones84 said:


> Just wondering what else i could do to make that 200hp+ mark???


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...attitude-for-the-track...-A-sister-for-Euclid


----------



## vwpieces (Apr 20, 2002)

Freddy's motor is damn awesome. Read the build a few weeks ago & been waiting for the final tuning dyno run. It *WILL* get better.


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

Im running a 1.8 16v in an 87 rocco with
Autotech sport cams 
a ported head
raceland header 
passat tb 
custom exhaust 
gotech mfi-x management 
msd blaster coil 
vr6 injectors bbm rail 
I made 127 at the wheels when the engine was basically stock with an exhaust 
since then the header, head,cams,tb were installed and it goes back to the tuner weds


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

fredybender said:


> FF to 4:02 min mark
> I'm NA


I'd love to see the specs on that blue rabbit, those are great #'s


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## Jones84 (Sep 6, 2007)

-RalleyTuned- said:


> I'd love to see the specs on that blue rabbit, those are great #'s


He has a build page. I just cant find it any more. But i know that i have seen it.


----------



## miggs (May 1, 2008)

I made 143whp and 136wtq with my ABF clone

specs;

ABA block bored .5 over
Mahle 83mm ABF pistons
TT ABF clone cams
1.8 head port and polish (mild, it was my first time doing a head)
TT 2 1/4 exhaust with borla
TT no cat downpipe
stock corrado vr air box with stock paper filter
running OBD1 with custom chip

I ran 15.7 sec 1/4 mile. It was my first time racing and had a wide ratio trans...

future plans are bigger cams and big valve head.


----------



## nick526 (Sep 29, 2006)

^^ lookin good dude :thumbup:

Finally made some progress on mine:



















ABF
83.5mm, 11:1 forged JE pistons
Integrated Engineering H-beam rods
SCCH lightened & balanced intermediate shaft
SCCH stage 3 head
+.5mm Supertech valves
Supertech springs & Ti retainers
Schrick 260/276 cams
TT tall block headers
AWP injectors and fuel rail

Hoping to hear it run in the next few months


----------



## leecatd8209 (Jul 13, 2010)

leon whalen said:


> this is a great thread guys, good to see it revived
> 
> i have an all motor aba16v in a mk3 gti
> aba block & rods
> ...


I'm in the process of buying a Mk2 GLI and all the parts NIB, or like new, to build a set up VERY close to this. After doing some research the numbers the guy gave me are absolute BS, but I'm still interested so long as it's substantially faster than stock, and doesn't have outrageous compression. Is this too much to ask?

The 2.0 block is also supposedly bored with oversized pistons and rings, anybody know the stock bore so I can measure it to verify?

I just want to make sure all my ducks are in a row before I go buying this. It's SUPER cheap for the amount of stuff, but I still don't want to get screwed. Thanks in advance. :beer:


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Jones84 said:


> He has a build page. I just cant find it any more. But i know that i have seen it.


Great #'s 
Amazing guy!
French buld page...
http://www.vwquebec.ca/forum/showthread.php?199264-RABBIt-80-BLEU-dyno-result&highlight=bleu+poudre

I like my #'s too, 217 WHP & 178 tq (mustang dyno)
and I just kicked the ass of a 2011 GT3 in Ste-Croix in Quebec city 2 weeks ago...


----------



## 2035cc16v (May 18, 2000)

*yes*

Yes grasshopper,

were still out there... mostly lurking...

:wave:


----------



## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

PowerDubs said:


> Then you don't have 300bhp either.


 Agreed, or he'd be posted all over the net and magazines for that alone. no dyno sheet = bs in anybodies books.


----------



## stija (Aug 20, 2011)

Fredybender....what does using a diesel crank do? Does it decrease or increase stroke? What CR are you running and what octane fuel are you using? What size intake and exhaust valves? 

I forgot to ask how much those special hr coilovers set you back. I am building a jetta mk2 track car and was going to go with either koni or groun control/koni setup. Haven't even considered the HR, but i dont like the fact that they won't tell me how stiff the setup is. The picture you linked in yuor thread is for RSS+ coilover setup. I can't even find them listed for mk2 golf/jetta. Where did you get them? Are you sure you didn't just get the RSS H&R coilovers and not RSS+?? 

Thanks.


----------



## psychobandito (Sep 10, 2009)

TDI crank will stroke you to a 2.1


----------



## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm diggin this thread! :beer:


----------



## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

leecatd8209 said:


> The 2.0 block is also supposedly bored with oversized pistons and rings, anybody know the stock bore so I can measure it to verify?


 aba and 2.0 16v blocks are i believe 82.5mm stock. Techtonics big bore piston for the aba lists as 83.5mm so 1mm larger than stock. :beer:


----------



## leecatd8209 (Jul 13, 2010)

Old_Skool said:


> aba and 2.0 16v blocks are i believe 82.5mm stock. Techtonics big bore piston for the aba lists as 83.5mm so 1mm larger than stock. :beer:


 Thank you sir :thumbup: I decided not to go for it, and just bought the GLI with a stock 16v that has a spun bearing to build myself, that way I know exactly what I'll end up with.


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

stija said:


> Fredybender....what does using a diesel crank do? Does it decrease or increase stroke? What CR are you running and what octane fuel are you using? What size intake and exhaust valves?
> 
> I forgot to ask how much those special hr coilovers set you back. I am building a jetta mk2 track car and was going to go with either koni or groun control/koni setup. Haven't even considered the HR, but i dont like the fact that they won't tell me how stiff the setup is. The picture you linked in yuor thread is for RSS+ coilover setup. I can't even find them listed for mk2 golf/jetta. Where did you get them? Are you sure you didn't just get the RSS H&R coilovers and not RSS+??
> 
> Thanks.


 1- Diesel crank: question answered above... 
2-CR I would say 13.8 (265PSI) 
3- Fuel: C12 VP fuel 
4- Valves : +0.5 exhaust +2.0 intake 
5- Coilovers: could not push H&R enough, for them to follow thru for the +'s, I guess money always talks though...Talk to Nate at Autotech, he has good relations with H&R, for specials. 
Even the RSS's I ended up with, are special made to order for A1 chassis. 

Fred


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Old_Skool said:


> aba and 2.0 16v blocks are i believe 82.5mm stock. Techtonics big bore piston for the aba lists as 83.5mm so 1mm larger than stock. :beer:


 Big bore can go up to 84.00mm (Ask me how come I know  )


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## heyfu (Mar 27, 2006)

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-...mageshack.us/img220/4379/picture655.jpg[/IMG][/URL] dyno coming soon


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## heyfu (Mar 27, 2006)

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-...ageshack.us/img202/4782/picture660p.jpg[/IMG][/URL]stock 2.0 with bolt on's megasquirt made 144hp/137tq for now


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

mine
























full build thread
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4258777-my-16v-rebuild-thread


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

vwjunkie42 said:


> full build thread
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4258777-my-16v-rebuild-thread


Did you ever get bigger injectors?
And is that w/ the Brospeed header? I know how loud those cams and ITB's can be, our car while it was running with those cams and the tt race header was brutally loud. It didn't matter if you were in front of or behind the car. It was too bad we never got the car to an auto-x.:banghead: Then the car broke and the economy took a dive.


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## Moteleb (Jan 10, 2009)

Here's mine. (I appears in the Freddy,s video) I also tune some engines on volkswagenquebec forum and VWLC. Light blue turbo rabbit also.

ABA16V
12:1 cr woosner pistons 83mm oversise
Stock ABA rods & crank
Gasket match ports (intakes & exhaust)
real ABF camshafts
Megasquirt 2 injection
Injectors mustang 4.6 bosch gen3
GSXr 1000 itb's

At startup in a MKII (crap) 3 years ago with digi2 injectors not tuned but really good idle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myjtCLl8BHE

Last year on a mustang dyno(with 2 rollers that squeeze tires) gave 140 whp at 7000rpm. Other dynos gives over 20% difference!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoarhVs3K7k

I recently installed kent cams 296° GF1604... Amasing power!


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## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

leecatd8209 said:


> Thank you sir :thumbup: I decided not to go for it, and just bought the GLI with a stock 16v that has a spun bearing to build myself, that way I know exactly what I'll end up with.


yw :beer:


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

miggs said:


> I made 143whp and 136wtq with my ABF clone
> 
> specs;
> 
> ...


very nice set-up. i especially like the abf intake. what was your mph when you ran 15.7


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## Mike-VW (Jun 16, 2008)

nick526 said:


> ^^ lookin good dude :thumbup:
> 
> ABF
> 83.5mm, 11:1 forged JE pistons
> ...


^wondering if this thing is running yet? :thumbup:


----------



## alex gee (Oct 8, 2010)

A little something that's finally coming together.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

I'll be rocking 


9a bottom end 
PL Head 
HD VALVE SPRINGS 
TI retainers 
Weber 45s 
Schrick 276s 
Brospeed Header


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm running: 
1991 2.0 16v 9a on Megasquirt (fresh rebuild) 
Autotech Sport Cams 
tt Race Downpipe 
tt Race Headers 
Custom Cat-less 2 1/4 exhaust 
Bored 1 Size Up 
315cc Injectors 
3 Angle Valve Job 
BBM Fuel Rail 
Arp Bolts All Around 
Custom Map 

165-170whp! 


























Enjoy:wave:


----------



## DjBij099 (Jul 21, 2003)

I will continue along with mine. I got my dynoed today and put down 132.9whp on a dyno dynamics. As soon as they email me the graph, I will post it up, but here are the engine specs 

1.8 16V 
52K on built head, bottom end is unknown  
CIS-Basic 
Euro Fuel Distributor 
K&N Air Filter 
Swiss Cheese Airbox (cut holes to allow more airflow to filter) 
Neuspeed Spark Plug Wires 
Euro 50mm Intake Manifold 
P&P Head 
HD Valve Springs 
Schrick 276  
Dual Outlet Exhaust Manifold 
Techtonics Cat-less Downpipe 
Techtonics 2.25" Cat-Back with Dynamax muffler 

I am the happiest person in the world and was shocked the motor was still this healthy. Everything I have done to it is paying off. For other general maintenance, here is what I have done: 

Mobil 1 10W-30 
Bosch Spark Plugs F6DTC 
OEM 50mm upper intake manifold gasket 
OEM Fuel Filter 
OEM Oil Filter 
OEM Valve Cover Gasket 
OEM Idle Screw Seal 
OEM Non-AC Alternator Belt 
Cleaned K&N Air Filter 
Both Main and Transfer Fuel Pumps 
OEM fuel injectors holders, upper and lower with Seal ring 
OEM upper and lower fuel injector seal rings 
Recently cleaned all my grounds 
New Distributor (this is still leaking  , I'll find a way to fix it) 

I did run seafoam through the engine oil once, just to clean it out because I had no idea what the bottom end was like. It didn't smoke or nothing, but I wanted to be on the safe side. I don't know if this helped or not. Engine did seem to run smoother after I changed the oil 

I still have a lot more I wanna do, but this is it so far and I couldn't be happier  Next set of mods are lightened flywheel, TT header, and TT 2.5" with Borla muffler. I found a phenolic intake manifold gasket also I'm willing to try out. Helps keep the temps down. I'm also gonna try and find the eurosport lower airbox. The lower part of the box is swiss-cheesed, but it's on the engine side. Warm air is going in there and I don't think it is really helping out much. The eurosport one is vented in front of the headlight and passenger side fender. Maybe this might help a little too.


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## DjBij099 (Jul 21, 2003)

Here's my dyno. The last car that was on it was a SRT-4 that had a bad alignment and was torque steering. He was messing up the dyno which is why you see that kinda weird line at the end.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Seems a little low? For those Cams?
Whats your A/F look like?


----------



## DjBij099 (Jul 21, 2003)

prom king said:


> Seems a little low? For those Cams?
> Whats your A/F look like?


It's right there on the graph. It measured hp and a/f. This was done on a dyno dynamics, reads lower than a mustang and dynojet.


----------



## kweetech (Apr 20, 2001)

prom king said:


> Seems a little low? For those Cams?
> Whats your A/F look like?


looks healthy to me..considering its 1.8, and only went up to 7250. Thing still pulls after that
Nice to see the euro cis doing its job:thumbup:


----------



## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

kweetech said:


> Thing still pulls after that


Not really. You can see it starts to taper off at 6750 rpms.


----------



## kweetech (Apr 20, 2001)

frechem said:


> Not really. You can see it starts to taper off at 6750 rpms.


Felt like it pulled well after that when I owned it 
Either way..would like to see the graph out to about 8k


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## DjBij099 (Jul 21, 2003)

kweetech said:


> looks healthy to me..considering its 1.8, and only went up to 7250. Thing still pulls after that
> Nice to see the euro cis doing its job:thumbup:





kweetech said:


> Felt like it pulled well after that when I owned it
> Either way..would like to see the graph out to about 8k


Whats up Matt :wave:


----------



## mr lee (Jan 31, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Here is my very first motor build. 

3a block / stock 9a internals
1.8 head / mild port
262 cams
TT Race Downpipe 2.25" catback
034 EFI 
Stock CR




























Going ITB this spring.. looking for the 150+ mark.


----------



## ratdub (Jan 17, 2005)

mr lee said:


> Here is my very first motor build.
> 
> 3a block / stock 9a internals
> 1.8 head / mild port
> ...


 not bad...what kind of itb's are you looking to slap on there?


----------



## Pure16v (Oct 22, 2010)

*my all motor 9A*

There are still some of us 9A all motor guys out there. I just took delivery of mine last Friday.

rollers showed 154.5 whp 
154.5/.82=just over 188.41 hp at the crank (this is using the 18 percent drivetrain loss method, your method may vary)

TT 16V Motronic chip (off the shelf non-cam version)
50mm intake manifold
New OEM Bosch injectors
Ported and polished 2.0 head 
TT high flow undercut intake valves
German light weight lifters
Tapered valve guides
TT ABF clone cams
TT HD valve springs
83.5 Supertech pistons (stock compression)
1.8t rods
Stock 9a crank 92.8mm
TT 4 into 1 header ceramic coated
TT high flow cat
TT Borla exhaust system
INA serp conversion

Will be going back in the spring after motor is broke in for more dyno tuning. Will be dyno testing several different cam types, a prototype throttle body design, more aggressive chip tuning, and some other fun stuff. 

154.5 whp and 135.6 wtq surprised me with little ABF cams and an off the shelf Motronic chip. It will be fun to drive once I get this thing broke in. Can't wait to see what this motor does after the forged pistons settle in and we throw a 268/276 set of cams in there. 

All thanks goes to Josh at TT.


----------



## Pure16v (Oct 22, 2010)




----------



## handyalbert11 (Nov 22, 2007)

This may be already out there but I haven't been able to find it, how far can you safely bore a 1.8 block to? close to 2.0? thanks


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm having mine bored to a 1.9 and there's still plenty of meat left. 

Speaking of pl motors I'm curious if anyone else is running a similar set up to mine and what numbers they saw from it. 

Pl block bored to a 1.9 je pistons 11:5:1 compression 
2.0 head ported and resurfaced 
Autotech street cams an adjustable cam gear 
Hd valve springs 
Autotech 10mm wires 
R1 carbs using ms for spark 
Tt race header 
Lw flywheel


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I'm having mine bored to a 1.9 and there's still plenty of meat left.
> 
> Speaking of pl motors I'm curious if anyone else is running a similar set up to mine and what numbers they saw from it.
> 
> ...


 Sounds like 140-150ish whp to me


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

prom king said:


> Sounds like 140-150ish whp to me


 Cool, thanks! I was planning on keeping the bottom end stock when I bought the cams. Now that I'm having it bored and running higher compression I might go with something bigger.


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

I just bumped CR to 14.2: 1 static  
I just need to button up a few things, and start the puppy! 

Should be going to the dyno after alignement... 
Last dyno (vid on earlier page) yeilded 216WHP = 242 corrected hp at the crank 
should aim for a few more ponies... 
Should be fun with the 6spd. Quaife dogbox


----------



## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

fredybender said:


> I just bumped CR to 14.2: 1 static
> I just need to button up a few things, and start the puppy!
> 
> Should be going to the dyno after alignement...
> ...


 haha 14.2.1..simply amazing! My nest build is going to be an N/A super high comp on ITB :heart:


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Stangy said:


> haha 14.2.1..simply amazing! My nest build is going to be an N/A super high comp on ITB :heart:


 Pistons at TDC  
you can see where there is a small interference, at the squish band... (small marks around the piston at the 45 degree taper) 
Issue has been adressed  
84mm bore X95.5 stroke


----------



## handyalbert11 (Nov 22, 2007)

wow thats impressive fredy :thumbup: So anybody go any larger with a pl? I'm trying to decide if i should build up mine or try to find a 9a or aba


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

handyalbert11 said:


> This may be already out there but I haven't been able to find it, how far can you safely bore a 1.8 block to? close to 2.0? thanks


 if you want to make street power, then get an aba and put your 1.8 head on it. the 1.8 16v head is great but the 1.8 block lacks torque and growth potential.


----------



## handyalbert11 (Nov 22, 2007)

Thank you! Exactly the information I was looking for :thumbup:


----------



## cabby85 (Feb 28, 2009)

leon whalen said:


> if you want to make street power, then get an aba and put your 1.8 head on it. the 1.8 16v head is great but the 1.8 block lacks torque and growth potential.


 don't forget ABF pistons or you'll have slugish power with 8.5:1 C/R


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## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

cabby85 said:


> don't forget ABF pistons or you'll have slugish power with 8.5:1 C/R


 sorry. what i meant was build a proper aba16v. 

option 1- abf pistons aba rods aba block=10.5:1 comp. (most $$ but quick & easy) 

option 2- 9a pistons aba rods aba block, with block decked 70 thow=10.8:1 comp. (cheapest but need machine shop to deck block & rebush rods) 

option 3- 9a pistons aba rods aba block tdi crank=11:1 comp. (more $ than option 2, less $ than option 1, but requires machine shop to grind tdi crank for clearance and reballance, & rebush rods.....most power of all options. 

option 4- because you already have a mk2 16v just get a 9a bottom end and bolt on your 1.8 head least $$ and no conversion hastle.


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Leon, so you have a ABF clone stroker too ? 

Details on mine 
ABA block OBD1 
TDI crank lightened & machined 
Wossner 84.00mm ABF pistons 13.5 CR, custom machined, because of the stroker crank 
9A Head with big valve kit, match ported, and intake reduced in cross section to increase velocity (Epoxy) 
Schrick 276/276 with springs & ti retainers 
45DCOE Webers 
Megajolt 3D programmable ignition timing with MAP 
TT race headers 
ARP hardware 

Yeilded 216 WHP on a mustang dyno last year. 

I would be interested in comparing notes, as there is not too many of those around


----------



## leon whalen (May 28, 2007)

fredybender said:


> Leon, so you have a ABF clone stroker too ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## red85GTi (Feb 25, 2005)

i


----------



## JuniorWhalen (May 15, 2008)

I'm rocking a mk2 coupe aba 16v

obd1 aba bottom end, decked 70 thou (10.8:1 comp.)
factory windage tray
9a pistons
9a head
duel exhaust cams
aba managment w/ tt aba16v chip
raceland header
tt 2.25" cat back w/ cat delete
custom 16v intake w/ aba tb adaptor & BBM fuel rail

no dyno graph yet but will be hitting the dyno in the spring
recently picked up an ABF intake and fuel rail that i plan to run with a vr6 tb and a new tt chip
i also have a PL head that will be going on with the intake


----------



## gatorhator (Aug 8, 2009)

Just started my thread. It will be a while before I can post any engine info. But it lists the parts I am using and my other things I will be doing to my 84 GTI. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5697224-Project-84-GTI-in-S.-FL&p=77499790#post77499790


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## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

Our Mk2 Golf 16v rally car made 189whp / 153wtq 

Engine spec: ABF 16v, stock crank / rods / intake, Wiseco 11.5:1 pistons, ported / polished head, Techtonics Tuning 288 degree hydro camshafts, Techtonics valve springs, 4-1 header, straight exhaust, Sunoco 100-octane, run by an Autronic stand alone system. Everything balanced / blueprinted. 

The guy doing the tuning said at this point the intake manifold was the restriction in the system, no doubt, and was confident he could get over 200whp with a short runner manifold, still running a single throttle body. 

When running on stage rally spec it does run a muffler and a catalytic converter. The old run with the 276 cam set was a different tune, with muffler / cat, and on 93 octane RON+MON fuel


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## Pure16v (Oct 22, 2010)

I bet that engine puts a smile on the driver's face.


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## Pure16v (Oct 22, 2010)

"The guy doing the tuning said at this point the intake manifold was the restriction in the system, no doubt, and was confident he could get over 200whp with a short runner manifold, still running a single throttle body."

There is a guy running around Seattle area with one of those BBM Da Bomb short runner manifolds on his NA 16V and a Mustang throttle body. Said he loves it. I have only seen them on forced induction builds. I bet that would unrestrict you a little bit. 

Who did the port and polish on your head?


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

*16 valve bottom end?*

I have a 1.8 16v swapped into a digi 2 cabriolet. I have barely any bottom end power. If I roll into the throttle it feels like it pulls harder than just stabbing the gas to the floor. Timing is at 7 deg. Has tt chip and raceland header with stock exhaust. What should I do? :banghead:


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

CaBrIo16v said:


> I have a 1.8 16v swapped into a digi 2 cabriolet. I have barely any bottom end power. If I roll into the throttle it feels like it pulls harder than just stabbing the gas to the floor. Timing is at 7 deg. Has tt chip and raceland header with stock exhaust. What should I do? :banghead:


 I would go back and recheck cam to cam timing and cam to crank timing, then redo the IGN timing. And check to ensure WOT switch is functioning and adjusted correctly. 

If that doesn't fix it, ditch the digi and go with MegaSquirt or some other standalone.


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

we have checked the timing like 10 times. I ran it head to head with a cis 16v caddy that was dialed in and it pulled on the caddy pretty good! i was just wondering what the best way to get some bottom end out of the motor? it just sounds like it wants more air and i pull the plugs after a hard pull and they are almost white is that right? my buddy said with good ignition they should be white...


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Reading plugs is only good if done correctly, meaning you have to shut the motor off at the exact time you want to read them. So if you want a reading from a high load high rpm, you need to shut it off at that moment and coast it to a stop and pull the plugs . Any idling or driving to a stop will void the read. Having said that, a white plug indicates a fairly good AFR, I have only really used plug reading for finding bad CIS injectors at idle, so I am no expert on reading plugs to check a tune. I use a wideband O2 sensor for that.


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

well whats the best bang for the buck for the 16v? i want to keep digi for now but would getting cams be best to get more power or if now what would?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

As far as I know, cams will just make the lower range TQ feel even softer. Then you have the issue of getting another chip for the new cams, if you want to take full advantage of them.


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## typeSLone (Feb 8, 2002)

ps2375 said:


> As far as I know, cams will just make the lower range TQ feel even softer. Then you have the issue of getting another chip for the new cams, if you want to take full advantage of them.


 A good quick ring and pinion will more than make up for the softer low end torque people feel with bigger cams. If built and tuned right a good 16v will still have decent low and mid range power.

My old built 9A motor became a monster from 2k thru 8k rpms, when I swapped out the existing 3.67 for a 3.94 r&p.

Those who run the longer ratio 8v trans with these motors will notice that a lack of low end torque when the motor starts breathing more than those with a correct close ration Trans.


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## Pure16v (Oct 22, 2010)

Those ABF clone cams that TT sells have great gains for low and midrange. I have been running them since last December on my engine and they are great daily driver cams. You can see my hp is very linear and the torque curve is nice. Great fifth gear pulls. 









Here is the motor broke in with a comparison between the 268 and ABF clone 254 cams, both from Techtonics


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

Did you change springs or anything when you did the cams?


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## Pure16v (Oct 22, 2010)

I did, but only because I am upgrading to bigger cams. Stock springs are okay with these. Call the guys at TT and they can tell you all about them.


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

Does anybody know what way you turn the fuel enrichment screw on a maf to add more fuel on a digi car?


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## Pure16v (Oct 22, 2010)

The right way to do it is buy the adjustable module. They are cheap, easy to install, and work well. 

http://www.autotech.com/product/power-module/10-215-200K.html?fromcat=


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

Does anybody know what way you turn the fuel enrichment screw on a maf to add more fuel on a digi car?


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

That won't work on digi...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

CaBrIo16v said:


> Does anybody know what way you turn the fuel enrichment screw on a maf to add more fuel on a digi car?


 There is no fuel enrichment screw on a digi car...


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

there is a plug on the maf that when you take it out there is an allen head bolt under it that is supposed to lean or richen the mixture...


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## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

Pure16v said:


> "The guy doing the tuning said at this point the intake manifold was the restriction in the system, no doubt, and was confident he could get over 200whp with a short runner manifold, still running a single throttle body."
> 
> There is a guy running around Seattle area with one of those BBM Da Bomb short runner manifolds on his NA 16V and a Mustang throttle body. Said he loves it. I have only seen them on forced induction builds. I bet that would unrestrict you a little bit.
> 
> Who did the port and polish on your head?


 Don't remember his name but he does a lot of port work for engines that go through Justice racing Engines. It was fairly mild as I was on a strict budget. http://www.justiceracingengines.com/


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## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

ps2375 said:


> As far as I know, cams will just make the lower range TQ feel even softer. Then you have the issue of getting another chip for the new cams, if you want to take full advantage of them.


 We gained TQ everywhere from 2500 to redline when we swapped TTs 276 cams for the 288s in the chart posted above. Not entirely apples to oranges because the tune was also for 100 octane rather than 93 and the race cat and muffler were gone. But, otherwise, same tuner, same dyno, etc.


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## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

Pure16v said:


> I bet that engine puts a smile on the driver's face.


 
Begin shameless self-promotion


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

QuantumRallySport said:


> We gained TQ everywhere from 2500 to redline when we swapped TTs 276 cams for the 288s in the chart posted above. Not entirely apples to oranges because the tune was also for 100 octane rather than 93 and the race cat and muffler were gone. But, otherwise, same tuner, same dyno, etc.


 I would believe your gains, where the question was asked of a motor running on digi, with which may or may not get a tune to take advantage of cams and a seemingly stock motor. I'm sure you guys are not doing those great things you do on digi.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

CaBrIo16v said:


> there is a plug on the maf that when you take it out there is an allen head bolt under it that is supposed to lean or richen the mixture...


 That's the CO adjustment screw, it has no effect on anything other than idle or part throttle cruise.


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

thats funny cause all the shops here say thats what that is for....:banghead: Is there any way to adjust it on digi? its chipped so is there any thing else i can do?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

On the older CIS cars, there was a mixture screw, yes. On digi-2, it's a CO adjustment screw. If digi-2 had a fuel mixture screw, there would be details here on the vortex, and there isn't . 

As far as fueling, without a wideband, there's no way of telling how rich or lean it is, outside of how it runs. Don't dump fuel where it's not needed, to try to make something faster. If you're using an 8v chip on a 16v digi-2 car then the ignition map is going to be very conservative for the 16v.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

B4S said:


> If you're using an 8v chip on a 16v digi-2 car then the ignition map is going to be very conservative for the 16v.


 Actually we have found that 8v's like a lot higher numbers than 16v's, the stock 8v ignition maps are pretty aggressive, especially in the mid range. Most digi 16v's I worked with back in the day had detonation issues because of the timing in the stock 8v maps. Either way it is FAR from ideal for the 16v :laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, I remember now...no idea why I posted the opposite, lol. I even made a spreadsheet comparing the two, back in the day. I blame the lack of coffee today :banghead:.


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

my car has a digi 16v chip in it from techtonics...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Again, no wideband = no hard data about air/fuel ratios. All the chips for digi-2 only touch ignition timing, since the fuel maps are locked away in another part of the ecu that can't be accessed by most tuners. The AFM/MAF handles all fuel demands based on incoming airflow, so as long as you're running stock digi-2 injectors, the fuel needs will be met properly. 

digi-2 is a HORRIBLY limited engine management choice, IMO. The best option is to toss it out and run OBD1 ABA stuff, or standalone.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

B4S said:


> Again, no wideband = no hard data about air/fuel ratios.


 I think I said that before, or could've been in another thread. 



B4S said:


> digi-2 is a HORRIBLY limited engine management choice, IMO. The best option is to toss it out and run OBD1 ABA stuff, or standalone.


 Glad you said it, I've been thinking that all along.:beer:


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## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

ps2375 said:


> I would believe your gains, where the question was asked of a motor running on digi, with which may or may not get a tune to take advantage of cams and a seemingly stock motor. I'm sure you guys are not doing those great things you do on digi.


 We are running Autronic SM4 

We initially tried to tune the Digi 3.0 (ABF ECU) but were only able to do very little. Burning new chips became too tedious and we went stand alone. 

BTW, I have the stock ABF Digi 3.0 ECU with no imobilizer if anyone is interested. ---Made 140whp totally stock motor and ECU.....


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

i agree digi is not the way to go with a 16v. i ran it for a while on my old motor, stock 9a ported head and euro intake cam. i found that while it did make the low end feel nice it would go very lean up top. 
i am now running ms2. easy to tune easy to install and low cost.


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

Just roughly what does it cost to go to ms? What all is involved in it?


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

you should check out diyautotune.com things have changed a bit, but when i did it it cost me round about $500 including all the odds and ends; harness sensors ecm...... and so on 
i got the kit so i had to assemble the ecm. but its not so bad if you can solder and you take your time. 
i am running ms2, but for simple fuel and spark you can get away with ms1 and its quiet a bit cheaper.


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

Is there anybody in the spokane area that know how to install and tune on ms? or does anybody know anyone in my area that does?


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## QuantumRallySport (Feb 17, 2006)

CaBrIo16v said:


> Is there anybody in the spokane area that know how to install and tune on ms? or does anybody know anyone in my area that does?


 Look up the Burress brothers DemonRally team as they have been using MS I believe and are in the area. THey could point you to a good tuner.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

QuantumRallySport said:


> Look up the Burress brothers DemonRally team as they have been using MS I believe and are in the area. THey could point you to a good tuner.


 I do all the installation, wiring and tuning (besides the one dyno tune we had done) for the Demon Rally team :thumbup: 

There is a good dyno shop in spokane, I just have to find the guys username on here :beer:


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## CaBrIo16v (May 24, 2012)

Honestly I am not looking for someone to install and tune it for me I would want someone that could help me do it...


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Pay for TunerStudio, it will do most of the work for you. You just need a decent spark map to start with, which can be found in various places online.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

no dynos yet, but previous owner who had this motor in his gti cup car said he dyno'ed 180hp, Ive got some buttoning up to do before I get it dynoed. 








By ncbrock at 2012-05-30


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## psychobandito (Sep 10, 2009)

Mods?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

forgot 1.8 head, p&p, 3 angle valve job, 268 intake and 288 exhaust cam, 1.8 block bored to a 2.0. Weber dcoe 45's, msd 6530 ignition. TT 4-2-1 header with straight through exhaust. 

Im trying to find a matching 288 intake cam without buying the exhaust but that doesnt seem possible unless used.


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## Heisse Scheiss (May 6, 2006)

Just got my long-term Rabbit project running with the help of a friend. A trip to the dyno is in order as soon as we get the clutch situation figured out. Here are the specs:

9A 2.0L 16v with Weber 40 carbs, TT Tri-Y header, VR6 cat., TT 2.25" stainless exhaust, and Borla muffler
Stage 3 Port and polish with port-matched intake manifold flowing max 233 CFS intake and 159 exhaust at .500 lift and 28 in.
TT 288 degree cams with adjustable cam gear
5-angle valve job with oversized undercut 32.5 mm Inconel intake valves
stock exhaust valves with high-flow valve guides
TT HD valve springs and retainers
Head decked .006" for raised compression ratio
MSD SCI (6A) box with VW ICM and MSD Blaster SS coil
Eurosport plug wires
Bottom end rebuilt
Carter 4070 fuel pump with Mallory FPR

The head work and port-matching cost about $1000 plus the price of parts. It runs like a top, started up first try with the push button. It's extremely quick to rev with the Eurospec lightened flywheel. I also have a wide-band O2 sensor and A/F ratio gauge to get installed before dyno day. I'm hoping to see 150 hp with a little carb tuning!


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Heisse Scheiss said:


> Just got my long-term Rabbit project running with the help of a friend. A trip to the dyno is in order as soon as we get the clutch situation figured out. Here are the specs:
> 
> 9A 2.0L 16v with Weber 40 carbs, TT Tri-Y header, VR6 cat., TT 2.25" stainless exhaust, and Borla muffler
> Stage 3 Port and polish with port-matched intake manifold flowing max 233 CFS intake and 159 exhaust at .500 lift and 28 in.
> ...


 dang that strong of a motor and huge cams with little 40mm carbs? You should hollow out that cat too (if you even need it for inspection) because it will get clogged


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

as mentioned above, you wont have enough juice with those 40s. your looking at about 7500 for full power with those cams. you will need 45s with about 38 chokes in them. good luck


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Just throwing this in here because I like the sound. Old video from a decade ago (maybe more..)


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## murph81 (Sep 5, 2011)

I have a 16V ABF in my Mk1 with Schrick 276 cams, lightweight followers, and Jenvey 45mm DTH ITB's.

The rest of the engine is totally standard, it made 181 bhp and 136 ft lbs, I was hoping for more torque but it drives great so I'm happy enough.

The car is going for paint soon but after that I want high comp pistons, steel rods and a ported head, I think this will finish the engine off nicely.

Here it is on the rolling road.


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## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

"the beast" dyno pull from 5 or 6 years ago.... 181whp on KE-Jetronic daily driven rain or shine

video here- https://picasaweb.google.com/doubleeuphic/DynoDay#5292799618580847426


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

here is my 2l 16v in a golf gl.


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## elveloz69 (Aug 26, 2006)

My friends a couple years back..199whp...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar2BjWoVbmw&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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