# Installed Carbotech Race Pads on the TT RS



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

For those of you who haven't read my other posts, I was very unhappy with the stock TT RS setup on the track. The pedal was spongy and the pads faded super fast. I had to brake very early because I had zero confidence in the system. So, last weekend, I installed some Goodridge lines and flushed the stock fluid out with some Motul RBF600 (Motul offers a RBF650 fluid, but it's twice the price). These two mods significantly helped the pedal feel but the stock pads had to go, so I ordered some Carbotech XP12 (front) and XP8 (rear) from http://www.ampdautosport.com

I put the Carbotechs on yesterday before heading to Hockenheim again and bedded them in on the track. I ran them to fade on the first session (which caused me to fly off the track on the turn 4 hairpin. Oops!). Luckily, there's a lot of paved runoff there so it's completely safe. The car only sat for 30 minutes or so before the next session (15 minute sessions) but, holy crap, these pads are ****ing awesome. I have to be careful now that I don't brake hard in front of someone. This thing stops stupid-quick now. Absolutely no fade so far. Pedal feel is excellent. Modulation is unbelievable. I finally have mega-confidence screaming into corners. Now I just need some passengers to scare the **** out of 

One thing I noticed, though, is that the rear pads went largely unscathed on the track. The front pads began life painted bright blue. Now they're black and white from obvious burning. The rear pads are painted silver and look the same as when I put them on. There's plenty of pad transfer to the rotors, so they're getting use. Just not nearly as aggressively as the front. I'm thinking that the rear rotor size can be increased to improve braking balance on the car. I'm going to give it a try sooner or later.

- Jeremy -


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

In the UK they use the RS6 C5 rear rotors (330mm) with adapters for the OEM brake caliper.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

R5T said:


> In the UK they use the RS6 C5 rear rotors (330mm) with adapters for the OEM brake caliper.


Yeah, I want to do this but "Dave" never returns my messages on the UK forums. So I'm going to order these instead:

http://racing-shop-germany.com/K-Sp...t-auf-groessere-Bremsscheiben-hinten-330x22mm

Same thing, except not OEM rotors. And, in the future, I'll order Racing Brake front rotors when I need to change:

http://www.racingbrake.com/Audi_TT_RS_FRONT_2012_p/2211.htm

Racing brake also makes the rear rotor, but only in OEM size (310mm). I asked them to make a 330mm with an adapter, but they said no 

- Jeremy -


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

K-sport would not be my choice on a TT RS or any other car for that matter.


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

- Jeremy - said:


> For those of you who haven't read my other posts, I was very unhappy with the stock TT RS setup on the track. The pedal was spongy and the pads faded super fast. I had to brake very early because I had zero confidence in the system. So, last weekend, I installed some Goodridge lines and flushed the stock fluid out with some Motul RBF600 (Motul offers a RBF650 fluid, but it's twice the price). These two mods significantly helped the pedal feel but the stock pads had to go, so I ordered some Carbotech XP12 (front) and XP8 (rear) from http://www.ampdautosport.com
> 
> I put the Carbotechs on yesterday before heading to Hockenheim again and bedded them in on the track. I ran them to fade on the first session (which caused me to fly off the track on the turn 4 hairpin. Oops!). Luckily, there's a lot of paved runoff there so it's completely safe. The car only sat for 30 minutes or so before the next session (15 minute sessions) but, holy crap, these pads are ****ing awesome. I have to be careful now that I don't brake hard in front of someone. This thing stops stupid-quick now. Absolutely no fade so far. Pedal feel is excellent. Modulation is unbelievable. I finally have mega-confidence screaming into corners. Now I just need some passengers to scare the **** out of
> 
> ...


Jeremy, 
great review on the XP12. I was going down that route until PFC08 compound was released for my pad shape and they will be the next pads on the car...when the PFC01 finally dies...still got 7mm left.

I can explain your rear pad issues - the pads are not aggresive enough thus with the front pads being that strong they are doing all the braking - you should look at putting XP12 on rears also to move brake bias towards rears. That would also stablise the car on hard braking - assuming you have that issue at present IF the XP8 are hardly being called in to action.

Personally, I would not replace the rear OEM rotors - for what we are doing (thus not F1 or Nascar racing) they are OTT in any case...just needs descent/aggressive pads. Saying that, I replaced mine for drilled OEM type...thus same size and it was a straight replacement for the OEMS just to match the front drilled discs...that is just me though hence the 'Just William' name tag...!!!

You may also find that by dialing in more camber on the fronts ONLY that could 'lose' some of that front bite thus bringing the rears in to play.

Some questiosn on the pads...;
1) How is the dust on the XP12? 
2) Are they noisy? 
3) I assume they need heat to work thus useless when cold?

Anyway, 8th July looks good for me...we can go on track together and see how we fare. PM me if that date is good for you and I will book ferry/hotel and seats at the lap dancing club.


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## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

- Jeremy - said:


> - Jeremy -


Carbotechs are great pads, low dust and rotor friendly. You should have the rear race pads as well. I suggest you invest in the carbotech bobcats 1521 for DD. THe nice feature about having both types of pads is that you do not have to re bed the race pads when you switch form the bobcats. Glad you like them. I have the same combination for years and also use them on my q7 and thunderbunny rabbit


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

I also bought some Bobcat 1521 front pads for the street because I was concerned with noise and dust. I haven't put them on yet. I've been running the XP12's since Thursday and they're just now begining to squeal. For me (and for now), they're actually quieter than the stock pad squeal. They, of course, do make a god awful metal on metal grinding sound, though  Also, the dust seems low to me. I was expecting dust to fly everywhere but it's not bad. Albeit that's only after 1 day of driving so take that with a grain of salt.

Another thing is their operating temperature. I expected them to be useless unless hot but they're actually very streetable. I would say that they're just as functional as the stock pads when cold. And massively better when hot.

I got the XP8's on the rear because I wanted to leave them on the car full time and just swap the front pads. XP8's are the quietest and lowest dusting track compound they make so they're fairly streetable. I'll either increase the pad compound or the rotor size. Not sure which, yet.

Thanks for the tips, guys!

- Jeremy -


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

- Jeremy - said:


> I also bought some Bobcat 1521 front pads for the street because I was concerned with noise and dust. I haven't put them on yet. I've been running the XP12's since Thursday and they're just now begining to squeal. For me (and for now), they're actually quieter than the stock pad squeal. They, of course, do make a god awful metal on metal grinding sound, though  Also, the dust seems low to me. I was expecting dust to fly everywhere but it's not bad. Albeit that's only after 1 day of driving so take that with a grain of salt.
> 
> Another thing is their operating temperature. I expected them to be useless unless hot but they're actually very streetable. I would say that they're just as functional as the stock pads when cold. And massively better when hot.
> 
> ...


OK, the XP12 sounds great as I had read to date. The low dust is also good to note as on my PFC01 the dust after a morning only track session is too much...I was told the XP12 would be much less and so the PFC08. 

Interestingly, I had in mind to swap front pads with 'street' pads however I also found the racepads to be streetable and not noisy enough to warrant a swap. Perhaps, the street pads can be swapped for rear XP12 pads...? And keep the XP8 for spares...just a thought.

On the rears...I would definitely advice that you go for a more aggressive pad - XP12 sounds ideal - and here is the key point (_assuming you will keep stock callipers_)...the more aggressive pad can be used on larger discs anyway...

I went BBK (RS6 C6 setup) up front first with the OEM Ferodo DS2500 pads /// rear setup was still stock...braking over stock TT-RS was...erm, '*Night & Day*' improvement however, I still found the rears was unstable on OEM pads. Anyway, the DS2500 pads on the fronts got very noisy as they were coming to their end of life - after 5k miles...pathetic this pad compound...! I switched to PFC01 and that was just silly really from day one...the improvements over the DS2500 is instant...basically, you want to brake late, the PFC01 will say "be my guest"...haha. They are very strong indeed and stops the car with no fuss/issues. 

However, I still found the rears were really unstable as braking on the front was now even stronger thus the stock OEM rears needed attention. I did look at upgrading rear rotors and bought the OEM RS4 rotors from Audi however these would have required a great deal of work to make them fit and we were not confident that the parts we would have had custom made would be safe...got to keep safety in mind with all these mods is my view and my tuner is great as they keep me in check...if a mod has not been or cannot be safety tested then we simply walk away. So it was that we kept away from the RS4 OEM rear rotors. The now famous DaveB rear solution came too late for me to take that up and I would have gone down his route IF only he had turned up earlier however keep in mind that I was one of the first owners of the TT-RS modding/fixing issues - and I was inpatient then..not so today though...!!!

The RS-19 was a suggestion which I reluctantly tried and as I was getting new pads I took the opportunity to change the OEM rotors for something that was a replacement (exact dimension however 0.5kg lighter) however drilled to match the fronts – the change was for aesthetics really and the old rotors had plenty of life left. I found the RS-19 and new OEM replacement rotors with stock callipers stopped the rears being unstable under hard braking...I also noted my braking required even less effort on the brake pedal...my view is that the rear combo seemed better matched to the front PFC01. Also, the front dust was markedly reduced - I would say by 25% as an estimation and the rears started dusting certainly more than before. All these observations were made on track use – not street. For street use, the stock TT-RS brake setup is more than capable IMO.

I recently looked at the RS-19 wear rate and it has hardly moved...perhaps 1mm used over past 10k miles...pretty astonishing really...I reckon the RS-19 will easily last another 2-years assuming I continue to abuse the hell out of the car at same rate - 10k miles per annum mostly track use or certainly journeys up to & from track. The rotors are hardly used either.

Of all the mods done to date, the brake setup listed below is by far my absolute solution which has not required any further changes or 'fine' tuning...it just work from day 1 to today...18mths later...;

1)	Performance Friction 01 compound pads fronts /// Pagid RS-19 compound rears.
2)	ENDLESS RF-650 brake fluid – did lots of research and settled on these because of the longer bleed cycle and kept away from SRF. 
3)	Braided lines (_not sure which brand however knowing my tuner probably a worthwhile brand_).
4)	OEM replacement rear drilled rotors (_not sure which brand however knowing my tuner probably a worthwhile brand_).
5)	RS6 C6 390mm front brake kit – only change being PFC01 pads as noted in #1 above. I have had *absolutely *no confidence sapping braking issues since this change.
6)	Custom cooling ducts later supplemented by Audi cooling ducts released to resolve the many braking issues raised by TT-RS owners.
7)	19” OEM rotor-arm wheels to fit BBK noted in #5 above.


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## turbojlo (Jul 3, 2009)

996cab said:


> 6)	Custom cooling ducts later supplemented by Audi cooling ducts released to resolve the many braking issues raised by TT-RS owners.


996Cab let me start by saying thank you for providing so much info on your failures and successes with the TT RS braking and handling. I have been following your posts across US and UK forums and really appreciate all the time and money you have saved me in certain areas. I owe you several beers!

Could you speak more to these Audi cooling ducts? Any pics or part numbers? Any pics of your custom setup? My experience on the track for the last 10 years has been that routing cool air (aka getting the heat out) to a BBK is just as important as fluid/pads etc. It was nice to see Audi put black plastic air guides on the control arms, as I've only seen this done on a few cars(mostly Porsches) from the factor. But these plastic air guides aren't enough for hardcore track use, but certainly nice to have for a novice and better than nothing.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

This is why I got into racing a Miata.


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

turbojlo said:


> 996Cab let me start by saying thank you for providing so much info on your failures and successes with the TT RS braking and handling. I have been following your posts across US and UK forums and really appreciate all the time and money you have saved me in certain areas. I owe you several beers!
> 
> Could you speak more to these Audi cooling ducts? Any pics or part numbers? Any pics of your custom setup? My experience on the track for the last 10 years has been that routing cool air (aka getting the heat out) to a BBK is just as important as fluid/pads etc. It was nice to see Audi put black plastic air guides on the control arms, as I've only seen this done on a few cars(mostly Porsches) from the factor. But these plastic air guides aren't enough for hardcore track use, but certainly nice to have for a novice and better than nothing.


Thanks for the glowing response - making me blush like a school girl now...

For additional cooling we placed a housing to 'scoop' air in to the NACA duct at the front of the car - this was done when the car was on stock rotors however using Pad RS4-2 pads. We found this to be OK...basically allowed me to run longer session on track before the pads started fading...this was a temp fix and left in situ anyhow as it was relatively effective. 

The Audi black plastic air guides on the control arms I guess is OK. Must admit thouigh that I suspect I can take both items off and my current brake setup will continue to perform.


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## turbojlo (Jul 3, 2009)

No worries mate you deserve the praise. I am really looking forward to duplicating your suspension tweaks and am very thankful for the part #s etc, but that is another topic.

Could you go into more detail about what you meant when you said: "_supplemented by Audi cooling ducts_"

Pics or even better a part number would be awesome. I haven't heard anything about Audi offering OEM cooling ducts for the TT RS in the US but would love to have a factory euro part to add to the system, or build a better system around if such a thing exists.

With your massive brake conversion I have no doubt you have plenty of rotor to act as a heat sink. I'd like to push the stock system as far as I can with lines, pads, fluid and air ducting. Due to the limited number of track events I have time to attend after having my daughter last year it doesn't make sense for me to replace the existing hardware at this time. Maybe once she is older and I have more time for the track and can bring her along to watch and some drive!


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

turbojlo said:


> No worries mate you deserve the praise. I am really looking forward to duplicating your suspension tweaks and am very thankful for the part #s etc, but that is another topic.
> 
> Could you go into more detail about what you meant when you said: "_supplemented by Audi cooling ducts_"
> 
> ...


No probs and tbh, the stock brake setup with better pads/fluid/cooling should cope well for light track use IMO.

"_supplemented by Audi cooling ducts_ = the plastic fins introduced by Audi and I note these are now standard fit on new cars.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

All other brake components staying unchanged, increasing pad bite on the rear will help balance out the bias noticeably. I was running HT-10s all around on my 4 wheel StopTech 355mm/4-pot BBK and found the rear bite to be just a tad bit higher than I like going into the braking/turning zone- it almost felt like the rear would momentarily 'lock up' if I was trail braking. Switched the front pads to DTC-60 and the problem was solved.

This was on my Z4MC that is my track car but the concept is the same for any car.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

Okay, so after a few days of running the XP12's up front, they did become very loud. Personally, I don't mind the squeal. It sounds kinda cool in a way. But I felt bad for other drivers with open windows and people on the sidewalk. It's pretty excruciating 

I swapped out the XP12's and put on the Bobcat 1521's today. I haven't bedded them in yet, but I can already tell a difference in pedal "squishiness". The XP12's were noticeably firmer. I need to bed the Bobcats in tomorrow morning so I'll know more later in the day. I'm running down to Stelvio pass next weekend so it'll be a good test of their fading and noise. 

This is where I'm heading, just in case you live under a rock and have never watched Top Gear. As a plus, the Giro d'Italia is racing up Stelvio Pass, so I get to watch that on Saturday and drive on Sunday and Monday. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JndYyYbPL0

- Jeremy -


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

Took the car out for lunch today. Man, driving with track pads on the street for a few days is a real eye-opener. Street pads seriously suck in comparison 

I'd say the Bobcats are comparable to the stock pads in bite with maybe a little more modulation. They're softer than the XP12's and lack any initial bite. They're very smooth to engage and linear. I haven't really pushed them yet so I don't know if they fade or not. I'll find out next weekend while coming down Stelvio! Hope I don't die...

So far, they're completely silent, so that's an upgrade over the stock pads. And they allow me to switch to the XP12's without re-bedding the pads or rotors, which is really why I bought them. Overall, they're fine for the street and enable a quick swap for track pads. But I wouldn't want to use them for any serious track duty.

- Jeremy -


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

- Jeremy - said:


> TI'll find out next weekend while coming down Stelvio! Hope I don't die...- Jeremy -



Nobody's Tomorrow is Guaranteed.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

I've run Carbotech pads on the street and track for about 4+ years now - but primarily track. You will notice increased pad and rotor wear running the XP12's on the street for any type of extended duration. They aren't supposed to be run at such low temps. If you want more initial bite on the street and still have less noise and wear - the AX6 is a good pad instead of the Bobcat. 

The other thing to consider with regards to the rear braking and bias is while the larger rotor may increase brake torque - it will also not heat up as much - so you need to take this into consideration. If you don't match the pad materials to correct heat range you might wind up with pad deposits on the rotors.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

See my track day report (AMP) here.

I ran the Carbotech RP-2 in F, and XP-8 in rear. I am running the OEM tires (rationale for the compounds).


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## mageus (Sep 1, 2004)

Just spoke to the CT folks (friendly guys). He said the XP10's active temp is around 400F+. If the rears aren't getting hot enough, the XP8s would actually be the better compound. XP8s kick in around 300F.

I'm going to put stickers on the rear calipers to what my temps are. Still have a couple sessions more life in the rear Brembos.


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