# Drake 16v heads for sale



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

I've seen a few threads on here about people looking for Drake 16v heads for sale. In a nutshell, I worked at Drake in the early 1980's and I ran the sales division for about a year before the street car division was sold off and moved to Yuma, AZ. The race division designed and manufactured the heads. When John Drake retired, he sold all the rights to the Drake patents, molds, and designs to former Drake Engineering principle engineer -- Stewart Van Dyne. Stewart started his own racing shop in Huntington Beach, CA in the mid/late 1980's. 

As of today (March-2011), Stewart has 4 or 5 of the Drake 16v heads available for sale, and one complete motor (displacement uknown). I'm pretty sure he has the molds and CnC programming to make more heads if necessary (but I'm not 100% sure). 

Anybody interested in the Drake 16v heads, please contact Stewart Van Dyno @ Van Dyne Engineering: 
(714) 847-4417


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

keep in mind there are no manifolds available that will make these heads work in our cars. Awesome that Stewart has some available.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

antichristonwheels said:


> keep in mind there are no manifolds available that will make these heads work in our cars. Awesome that Stewart has some available.


 Stewart owns the head design, and I'm pretty sure he can supply manifolds. I was speaking to him today about a motor project he's building for me, and he asked me to look over the VW forums for information about the Drake 16v (old articles to send him). During the call, he mentioned that he had 4 or 5 heads ready and available; one of them is on a complete motor. I don't think Stewart would have made that offer if he didn't have manifolds, cams, and everything to back it up such as manifolds, cams, and proper pistons (all pistons were custom made anyways). After all, Stewart did hand machine a few of these heads before Drake bought a CNC, so I don't think supplying the proper plumbing would be a problem. 

As for the manifolds. I recall there were two: 1) Carburated manifold. 2) Fuel Injected manifold. The carb manifold was usually outfitted with Mikuni 44's or Weber 45's (or was it visa-versa?). The fuel injected manifold was strictly mechanical fuel injection, and Drake used a Hilborn unit as I recall. 

Since Stewart owns the Drake 16v head design, I'm pretty sure if there was demand he could make more if necessary...but I can't be sure without asking him myself.


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## boomenstein (Nov 17, 2003)

Oddly I spoke with Stewart today as well about buying one of these heads, he asked me if I was going to run carbs of F.I. he said he would include the carb manifold as that was my direction. He didn't mention he didn't have any so I assume that is not an issue, we never spoke about exhaust manifolds which I suppose we should have. 

Are these heads a crossflow design like the VW with intake in the front and exhaust in the back?


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

boomenstein said:


> Oddly I spoke with Stewart today as well about buying one of these heads, he asked me if I was going to run carbs of F.I. he said he would include the carb manifold as that was my direction. He didn't mention he didn't have any so I assume that is not an issue, we never spoke about exhaust manifolds which I suppose we should have.
> 
> Are these heads a crossflow design like the VW with intake in the front and exhaust in the back?


 Yes it's a cross flow head. Ports are 22 degrees with respect to the combustion chamber. It's a 3-piece head. It's hard to describe. There's a valve carrier, cam carrier, and valve cover. The valve carrier and cam carrier are machined such that -- when you loosen the head bolts, the head literally lifts itself away from the motor. The head bolts don't just come out until you separate the cam and valve carrier halves. So when it's bolted together, you can literally set the head down on the bench -- valves down -- and it will still be suspended by the head bolts and unable to bend the valves. It's an absolutely brilliant design.


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

the engines sat straight up and down in Formula Vee. They were mounted north-south. the manifolds are not designed for our cars. I got this straight from John Drake 20 years ago. Still it's very cool the parts are available. I bet the total price is quite prohibitive.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

antichristonwheels said:


> the engines sat straight up and down in Formula Vee. They were mounted north-south. the manifolds are not designed for our cars. I got this straight from John Drake 20 years ago. Still it's very cool the parts are available. I bet the total price is quite prohibitive.


 Well, John would certainly know. Did John say what the issue was with the manifolds? I can see the motor angle being an issue with carburated set up, but not sure how it affects the FI set up. FV would have been FI anyways wouldn't it? It's been too long ago to remember for me anyways. 

The weird part is these motors might not have ever competed in Forumula-Vee...at least none were made for FV while I worked there. (Wouldn't it have been Super-Vee for the water cooled motor? I still have a Super-Vee piston as a pencil holder on my desk.) All of the Drake 16v motors I saw assembled went to one or two customers who used them for midget racing. The one carburated street motor sat on the shelf in the shop (untouched) the entire time I worked there. It was a 1600cc street motor. Makes me wonder if the carb manifold had the right angle for a street car. 

BTW, John died about 3-4 years ago. We lost a great man -- far too young -- to a sudden heart attack.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

BTW, I just noticed that I keep ignoring the exhaust manifold part of this. That's because the exhaust manifolds (headers) were all custom anyways. So there never was anything for a street car, and shouldn't prevent somebody dropping one of these heads into a street car anyways. I know Stewart could give the steel plates for the exhaust ports, and any good header guy could make headers for it if the motor were mounted, and the exhaust port plates available. That's why I'm not concerned about the exhaust part of this. 

BTW, I'd LOVE to see one of these heads finally go into a street car.


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

Stewart can make the headers right? 

The FI on these things was that Hilborn trumpet looking setup. Mounted in our cars it would stick through the hood. 

So did they put a price on a head, cams, etc?


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## boomenstein (Nov 17, 2003)

antichristonwheels said:


> Stewart can make the headers right?
> 
> The FI on these things was that Hilborn trumpet looking setup. Mounted in our cars it would stick through the hood.
> 
> So did they put a price on a head, cams, etc?


 
When I spoke with him on the phone he said $5000, but if we could get a few people interested the price might come down...pretty expensive but also super rare....


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

**** i emailed them about it. Cant come up with that kind of dough right now. Few years down the road....I dont care if my car is a rustbucket if I have the money and there is one around Im all over it.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Since I started this thread, I called Stewart to ask him some of the questions. Keep that my memories from working at Drake are 25+ years old. But as I spoke with Stewart a few minutes ago, I learned that my recollections have been largely very accurate. 

Completeness: 
Currently the cylinder heads are locked in storage. Stewart hasn't been able to assess how complete they are. It doesn't much matter because Stewart can make any of the missing parts. Currently Stewart has 5 or 6 heads, plus one complete motor with the Drake 16v head. 

Intake manifolds: 
There were two manifolds: Carburated and FI. The carb manifold was made for the street car and has the proper angle to it. The FI manifolds were trumpted for mechanical (Hilborn) fuel injection. In today's world, there are many possibilities for intake design. You could use the carb manifold as-is. You shouldn't have any problems clearing the hood...but nobody can be 100% sure without mocking the actual motor in the actual car. The second option would be to take the carb manifold and attach modern individual throttle bodies and electronic fuel injection -- programmed by one of many after-market ECU's. This would be a very nice solution. Or one could take the FI trumpets and cut/fabricate a proper plenum onto them. 

Exhaust manifold: 
No street headers were ever made. Stewart can provide the flanges which allows people to have their own headers made. Or if there's sufficient demand, Stewart could have headers made. But I'll stress...I don't think sufficient demand would be met by one or two sales. 

Pistons: 
Stewart would be willing to provide pistons in a variety of compression ratios. Since the pistons are custom-made, it's not a problem to have them made to just about any compression ratio. 

Block compatibility: 
The Drake 16v heads are compatible with the 1.7L or 1.8L blocks. 

Manufacturability: 
Stewart confirmed that he has all of the molds and CNC programming to remanufacture the heads, intake manifolds, and cams. So he can make more heads if necessary. 

Price 
$5000 doesn't seem realistic to me -- it seems too low. Stewart did tell one guy $5000, but that was with the provision that price was only good if multiple heads were sold. The one-off price would most likely be $6500-$7200. If you saw one of these heads in person, you'd know why they aren't cheap to manufacture. They are one of the most beautiful designed heads I've ever seen. 

If you're local to SoCal, then stop by Stewart's shop in Huntington Beach and look it over. Since Stewart is currently building my "Texas Mile" motor (4.7L V8 BMW M3 stroked, supercharged S65 motor), I'm sure I could coax him into letting me go through the storage shed and take pictures and post them. But I live 300 miles away and don't get down there very often. 

If anybody has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them, or get the answers from Stewart. 

Robert Collins


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

PencilGeek said:


> Pistons:
> Stewart would be willing to provide pistons in a variety of compression ratios. Since the pistons are custom-made, it's not a problem to have them made to just about any compression ratio.


 Pistons are not included in the price of the head. 

Robert Collins


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

I forgot these things flow so much the Drake mill made power to 10000 on those little motors. Didn't they burn alky? This would be so uber cool on a 2+ liter bottom end. Too bad I can't afford a head AND a divorce.....


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

antichristonwheels said:


> I forgot these things flow so much the Drake mill made power to 10000 on those little motors. Didn't they burn alky? This would be so uber cool on a 2+ liter bottom end. Too bad I can't afford a head AND a divorce.....


 The highest I believe I ever saw one of these heads/motors dyno'd was about 9000-9200 RPMs. The most horsepower I ever saw was about 295 crank horsepower. I think I saw one crack 300 horsepower once, but the memories are so vague that I'm just not sure any longer. And all of that was on a 1935cc bottom end. 

I'm sure if you built a full 2L bottom end and added modern EFI and ECU tuning, you'd easily crack 300hp. 

One thing I forgot to mention about my conversation yesterday with Stewart: 

ECU Tuning: 
The best way to go to drop one of these heads onto a street motor is to use the carb manifold and add ITB's and EFI and a modern ECU. Stewart said he'd gladly work with somebody who wanted to "take the project all the way" and put the motor on the dyno (engine dyno) and do the full ECU mapping for the motor.


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## HASSEN S.A (Mar 18, 2011)

Hi Robert Collins 

Read your articles years ago,very good info thanks. 
I would love to own a Drake head/engine! 

Btw what is the cam duration on these heads? 
Hassen 
Sunny South Africa


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

HASSEN S.A said:


> Hi Robert Collins
> 
> Read your articles years ago,very good info thanks.
> I would love to own a Drake head/engine!
> ...


 Thanks for the kind words. 

Unfortunately, I don't remember the duration of the cams any longer. As best I recall (and this is just mostly an educated guess), the 16v street motor was outfitted with the same grind as our 0.426 8v cams. I just tried to verify that by looking up my old VW articles, and in those I listed the Drake 16v cams as unknown lift. So I'm just not 100% sure any longer. You'd want something mild for a street car anyways -- so a 0.426 makes a lot of sense. 

Our racing 16v cams naturally had more lift and a lot more duration. But again, I just don't remember what they were. 

If somebody were to buy one today, cams could be made for whatever application that makes sense. I think the cams were made from billet anyways, so nobody is locked in to a particular cam grind -- you can choose whatever you want. Even if the cams aren't billet, unless they are already pre-ground, then any grind can be put on one of the cam blanks.


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## MEGA 16v GLI (Aug 31, 2010)

I would Love to see what one of these 16v Heads look like. Please post some pictures. Very interested! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

MEGA 16v GLI said:


> I would Love to see what one of these 16v Heads look like. Please post some pictures. Very interested! :thumbup::thumbup:


 There's some pictures in this thread: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ger-Drake-Graff-or-other-rare-16v-s-post-here


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## soch naungayan (Dec 23, 2001)

> If you're local to SoCal, then stop by Stewart's shop in Huntington Beach and look it over.


 whats the shops address...


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Van Dyne Engineering 
17696 Metzler Ln. 
Huntington Beach, CA 92647 
(714) 847-4417


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

MEGA 16v GLI said:


> I would Love to see what one of these 16v Heads look like. Please post some pictures. Very interested! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

Note to self, 

Start selling crack. 

Skip the bentley. 

Buy Drake head. 

Put in rabbit. 

Become legend. 

 


It's amazing to see The Robert Collins from all the old drake articles that we've read over the years pop up in here, awesome! I will never have the money to get into one of these heads, but I hope that that someone with deeeeep pockets does and finally shows us all what we have been wondering for all these years, does that ancient drake dyno graph that runs out to 290+hp really exist.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

g60vw said:


> Note to self,
> 
> Start selling crack.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind, those dyno graphs are from a motor dyno, not chassis dyno. Yes I can vouch they are accurate because I saw at least 10+ of those motors dyno'd. But those were a pure racing application: 1935cc, 14:1 compression ratio, and running methanol. As I recall, the highest I ever saw one dyno was in the low 290's. I think I saw quite a few around 286-287.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Over this past weekend, I drove to SoCal and took a visit to Stewart's shop to check on my motor build...but just as important I wanted to check on the Drake 16v stuff and report back to this forum. I took just under 100 pictures...which I will post later today.

Here's what we found.

Motors:
There is one complete Drake 16v motor. The motor has a factory distributor, and oil pan. This is a good sign that this motor was the only "street car" Drake 16v that I remember from the shop. The odd part is that it's built on the "H" block, and not the 1.6L block as I would have expected.

There's a short block without the head attached. The short block has a dry sump and all of the dry sump pump stack attached. This short block is on the 1.6L block. The cylinder walls are rusted, so this is probably junk -- except for the dry sump and pumps.

Complete Heads:
There are four complete, or near-complete heads. One of these is on the complete motor. So there are three other heads. One head is complete with cams, valves, springs, etc. It's complete. The other two are disassembled...but together. These have valve seats installed, but no valves, valve springs, cams, or cam followers. Stewart said he probably wouldn't sell any of these used heads because he and his son would rather use them for their own recreational projects (sand buggies, etc.).

Head castings:
There are head castings to make five complete heads. We found all of the jigs for the CnC, so it a simple matter of taking these castings to the CnC, download the programming, and a few hours later you get a Drake 16v head. These castings are in perfect shape.

Intake manifolds:
We were only able to find one fuel injection intake manifold, and one modified FI intake manifold with a downdraft carb attached to it. We didn't find any carb manifolds. The carb manifolds are probably the most useful right now because you can attach ITB's and away you go. The carb manifolds can be remanufactured without any problems.

Cams:
We found at least a dozen or maybe two dozen cams and cam blanks. When I worked at Drake, I recall we always used billet cams on these motors. Most of the cams we found were from castings. So this must have been a change that John Drake made after Stewart and I no longer worked at Drake Engineering. We found abour four cam blanks. All others were racing cams which can be reground to street cam applications.

Other parts:
The other parts we found were somewhat sporadic. We found a bunch of cam sprockets -- probably enough for 4 or 5 heads. We only found a few valves, springs, etc. These shouldn't matter anyways because getting these parts is only a phone call and a few days wait to order them. Drake always ordered these on demand anyways, so it's no wonder that no stock exists of these parts.

Prices:
Stewart and I went over prices and looked at them many different ways. I really don't think it's realistic to expect one of these heads to go out of there less than $6500; I think the $7200 for the complete head is more realistic. The deeper and deeper we got into the pricing, we realized all of the accessories that needed to go along with it. For example at the low end of pricing, valves, springs, belt drive, and manifolds wouldn't be included. But once you include these things, the price continues to go up. So I'm really just making a guestimate of prices here, and anybody who's interested needs to negotiate directly with Stewart.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

*Drake 16v Motor Pictures*

I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.

Drake 16v Motor Pictures:


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## cyclops594 (Sep 29, 2005)

Very, very cool!


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

*Drake 16v Head Pictures*

I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

*Drake 16v Cams & Combustion Chamber*

I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.

Drake 16v Cams & Combusion Chamber:


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

*Drake 16v Intake*

I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.

Drake 16v Intake (FI and variants)


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

*Drake 16 D Sump, Pistons, & Molds*

I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.

Dry Sump:






















































Pistons:






















































Molds:


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

*One last picture*


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## cyclops594 (Sep 29, 2005)




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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

Someone who's rich needs to get on this! Amazing that this window into history has been opened and a huge thanks to Mr. Collins for getting this info out to the masses. I remember reading about the drake stuff in that old VW Performance book from the 80's by Greg Raven, and even then they were considered Unicorn parts. You would never see them, you would never have them, and be glad you even know they existed.

Again, thank you for showing us all this stuff, truly amazing! :thumbup:


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## 1983rabbitgti (Apr 4, 2004)

if i had the cash.....

"brand new reproduction drake 16v heads for sale"

almost every guy with a 16v would want one. this is baller. :beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## cyclops594 (Sep 29, 2005)

g60vw said:


> huge thanks to Mr. Collins for getting this info out to the masses.
> 
> Again, thank you for showing us all this stuff, truly amazing! :thumbup:


 X2!


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

g60vw said:


> ... I remember reading about the drake stuff in that old VW Performance book from the 80's by Greg Raven..


You don't still have your's? :laugh: That book was my bible back in the late 80's



g60vw said:


> ..and even then they were considered Unicorn parts. You would never see them, you would never have them, and be glad you even know they existed.


ha, yea. I had the Drake catalog in the 80's and still have the vision of the super V engine pictured on the Dyno. Either on the cover or on the 1st page (I forget). I really with I still had it, but I think it got cleaned out with a lot of my VW & P magazines 

This is definitely some cool stuff. If I had the coin, I would buy the whole lot of stuff.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

*Drake 16v Flyer*


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's something I just thought of. That "junk" short block might not be so "junk" after all. When I worked at Drake, we used the Okrasa crankshaft for all of our racing motors. That crankshaft alone might make buying that shortblock worth it (and the dry sump doesn't hurt either).


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## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

> $5000 doesn't seem realistic to me -- it seems too low. Stewart did tell one guy $5000, but that was with the provision that price was only good if multiple heads were sold. The one-off price would most likely be $6500-$7200. If you saw one of these heads in person, you'd know why they aren't cheap to manufacture. They are one of the most beautiful designed heads I've ever seen.


I laughed. this is still vw stuff man! You are talking ferrari cylinder heads at those prices... I mean...all of that stuff is going to have to be gone through by an expert machinist since they werent valuable enough to whoever owned them to take good care of them in the first place. Its going to cost a small fortune to get one of these going properly again. when I saw the thread, in my head I went "if its around $1500 I'll get one". But man... 7 large? :screwy: I think I'd rather own a 911 so I had an engine worth putting $10,000-$12,000 into? At least then I'd be driving a panty dropper. Instead of an econobox.

That said. Its amazing these parts still exist. Any of us would love to make something like this work, as an homage to one of the old greats. its too bad they werent found by someone who wants to restore and use them, rather than someone so unplugged they left them rot in storage for 25 years.

why are the original prices blacked out in the image above?


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Digital K. said:


> I laughed. this is still vw stuff man! You are talking ferrari cylinder heads at those prices... I mean...all of that stuff is going to have to be gone through by an expert machinist since they werent valuable enough to whoever owned them to take good care of them in the first place. Its going to cost a small fortune to get one of these going properly again. when I saw the thread, in my head I went "if its around $1500 I'll get one". But man... 7 large? :screwy: I think I'd rather own a 911 so I had an engine worth putting $10,000-$12,000 into? At least then I'd be driving a panty dropper. Instead of an econobox.
> 
> That said. Its amazing these parts still exist. Any of us would love to make something like this work, as an homage to one of the old greats. its too bad they werent found by someone who wants to restore and use them, rather than someone so unplugged they left them rot in storage for 25 years.
> 
> why are the original prices blacked out in the image above?


A couple of clarifications here.

The only heads that are for sale are brand new from castings haven't even been machined yet. There are enough castings to make five new heads. The current owner also owns the design, molds, and CnC programming. If somebody wanted 100 of them, they could be made.

These are the left-overs when John Drake retired, and sold to his former engine builder who now has his own racing shop in Huntington Beach, CA. They were never left in storage to rot, and the castings look like they just came from the foundry. If I showed pictures of the castings, it doesn't give anybody an idea what an assembled head looks like. That's why I photographed the completed heads and partically disassembled head so others could see what it looks like inside and out.

I hope that makes more sense now.


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Digital K. said:


> why are the original prices blacked out in the image above?


Stewart asked that I black out the original 1985 prices.


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

Well probably because.........




chippievw said:


> Because I love cylinder heads
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

It's also worth saying that $3500 in 1985 is about $7k today, so relatively speaking it's the "same" money. Not that this head didn't cost about 1/3 the price of a new GTI then, or now. It's still big coin.


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## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

PencilGeek said:


> A couple of clarifications here.
> 
> The only heads that are for sale are brand new from castings haven't even been machined yet. There are enough castings to make five new heads. The current owner also owns the design, molds, and CnC programming. If somebody wanted 100 of them, they could be made.
> 
> ...





PencilGeek said:


> Stewart asked that I black out the original 1985 prices.


Realistically no one cares what the original price was. Its a historical piece, and the original price has little bearing on what its valued at today.... however the guilty conscience evident from the blacking out the original price is stupid. Why do that? 

So you are talking around $7000 for a complete head with new cams, all new valves and etc? How much is the manifold to go with it and such? Just trying to get a bearing on what realistically is going on here. I've had $2500 into some ****box 16v 9a head. You are not TOO Far off, but I think the original 5000$ idea for a NEWLY built item, is a bit closer, albeit, just a bit too much for me _personally_ to bear. Plus the additional expenses of all the **** needed to make it work? I dunno man. Theres probably only a couple people in the country that would do that. They have more money than brains. 

In my humble opinion there just isn't enough money in the old school market to bear the weight of the costs you are talking about. Im just being honest with you. Of course this is all my opinion and I may be wrong. From a "i have money and would actually buy this ****" standpoint it just might not happen at that price. Especially not considering theres a lot more to go into this than just a head. 



g60vw said:


> It's also worth saying that $3500 in 1985 is about $7k today, so relatively speaking it's the "same" money. Not that this head didn't cost about 1/3 the price of a new GTI then, or now. It's still big coin.


Back in the day this was the latest greatest **** for the newest hottest **** racing on legitimately competitive circuits. The people that would have bought that stuff and have the money to do so drive new TDI cup cars, and FSI ****. Know what I mean?

just rambling my thoughts....


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

I see where you're coming from Kris, and I'm with you. When I look at how much it would cost to make one these actually happen, in the car, and running, I think it's in the neiborhood of $10-15k. That said, there are people who are near that dollar level on vw motors or oettinger builds. I guess my point is that if a person was in the market to build a doomsday NA motor, then this would be a viable option. 

Consider what it would cost to do a full tilt vw head, full schrick solid lifter, big valve, etc, I would imagine that would be $5k easy, never priced it out because that's way too rich for my blood.

I think these heads are an amazing piece of engineering and history all rolled up into one, and all any of us really want to see is someone, anyone, put one in a street car.


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## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

g60vw said:


> I see where you're coming from Kris, and I'm with you. When I look at how much it would cost to make one these actually happen, in the car, and running, I think it's in the neiborhood of $10-15k. That said, there are people who are near that dollar level on vw motors or oettinger builds. I guess my point is that if a person was in the market to build a doomsday NA motor, then this would be a viable option.
> 
> Consider what it would cost to do a full tilt vw head, full schrick solid lifter, big valve, etc, I would imagine that would be $5k easy, never priced it out because that's way too rich for my blood.
> 
> I think these heads are an amazing piece of engineering and history all rolled up into one, and all any of us really want to see is someone, anyone, put one in a street car.


I think there might be a market for this in europe, as vw's are their hotrods. Theres guys here that will put a 20,000$ motor all day long into their old ****box chevy. its the same in europe. vw's and **** like that are their hotrods. I just dont think its the same gig over here in terms of the amount of people willing to do something like this. 

For reference I had krom build me a head. the works. everything. I think I ended up right at around $3000 or $3500 once I was done with it. I had $2500 into some other head. However, I can slap whatever manifold on those, and down the road I go. I can also buy valves and lifters if something goes wrong. 

And by people building oettinger builds like that, you mean PERSON right?


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## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

Digital K. said:


> And by people building oettinger builds like that, you mean PERSON right?


I LOL'd! :laugh:


I built a 16v once. It cost twice as much as I planned and so far is about 20-30 hp shy of my original conservative goal. My next 16v build won't even be a build. Stock. 200hp at the crank. Oh I forgot, it's an FSI and sitting on a stand waiting..........


I'm sorry that I have derailed this thread so far, I will stop.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

g60vw said:


> I LOL'd! :laugh:
> 
> 
> I built a 16v once. It cost twice as much as I planned and so far is about 20-30 hp shy of my original conservative goal. My next 16v build won't even be a build. Stock. 200hp at the crank. Oh I forgot, it's an FSI and sitting on a stand waiting..........
> ...


its a discussion board. :thumbup: don't worry about it.


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Digital K. said:


> ...However, I can slap whatever manifold on those, and down the road I go. I can also buy valves and lifters if something goes wrong...


The Drake 16v head is more serviceable than people might realize. All of the valve seats, valve guides, valves, valve stem seals, valve springs, and cam followers are off the shelf components -- just not necessarily all VW components. In that regard, this head is no different than any other head: all of the parts are readily available as off the shelf components, provided you know which parts to order. Anybody doing an engine build on this head would be given all of the service data for replacement parts.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

good luck I guess.


----------



## bomberbob (Sep 19, 2004)

Photos of these heads amount to automotive porn. And I like it.
I echo the sentiments of others, I wish I could justify putting this in my car, but its not worth it. My car came out of a farmers chicken coop. Paid 400 bucks for it. To sink this much into a cylinder head is absolutely crazy. I can't help but wonder how much enjoyment I would have ripping down the highway with one of these heads, megasquirted, running E85.
Is there no one with the finances to buy and run one of these, so the rest of us can at least see the legend resurrected? I am almost tempted to go get a second job just to save up for one.


----------



## GTIMaxx (Feb 12, 2003)

I'm gonna make sure I keep playing the powerball and some scratch off. Hopefully I get lucky.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


----------



## MEGA 16v GLI (Aug 31, 2010)

WOW! Beautiful head design. Super-V. I cant imagine how crazy it would be to run this head with a turbo.

This head would be making alota love with a 1.8L block.


----------



## aaronmcadoo (Mar 4, 2007)

amazing pieces of history their. I would love to have one of them to build around my mk1. They are a bit out of my price range though  thanks for sharing them with us.


----------



## HASSEN S.A (Mar 18, 2011)

A huge shout out goes to Robert Collins once again for putting this info and product out here on the net after
So many years! For the pics and effort to get them, just awesome!

I'm from another continent, and I would love to own one of those heads (busy saving actually). I read about 
The legendary Drake head many years ago and a good friend and I tried getting more info or even an actual
Head all to no avail so for it to be offered up new on the net after almost 20yrs of searching is 
Just incredible. 
I managed to get an Oettinger head easier than it was finding more info on the Drake. I think the price is relative
Its value.
Btw does anyone have the brochure?
Ciao from South Africa


----------



## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

does anyone know another way to contact Steve? I called him and left a message and i have emailed him. i very interested at getting a complete head. any help is appreciated.


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

You mean to call Stewart? Just keep trying his business number, it's not hard to get through to him.

Stewart Van Dyne
(714) 847-4417


----------



## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

ok ill try again. i tryed that number before and i also emailed him frrom this company's web page


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

max and tiny said:


> ok ill try again. i tryed that number before and i also emailed him frrom this company's web page


EMail is probably not the best way to get in touch with Stewart, but the phone always works for me. I'll talk to Stewart today or tomorrow and kick him around a little for not getting back to people.


----------



## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

thanks. i just want the price for a whole head.


----------



## Brian.G (May 8, 2010)

Its made that way because the line of head bolts sit at/on/under cam lines, and they would not be accessible for tightening without first removing cams anyway.
Its also easier make.


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's an update on people trying to get in touch with Stewart. I won't quote exactly what he said because it was filled with both filled with swear words and hilarious at the same time.

Keep in mind, Stewart built an Indy-500 winning motor...back in 1972. So he's getting up there in his 60's. He doesn't really "do" technology. He recently discovered his web site email link was broken; so if anybody sent an email...he never got it. It doesn't matter much because he won't really look at the emails anyways. The same goes for the answering machine. He advised against leaving messages. For anybody trying to get in touch with Stewart, he said to just keep calling and calling until you get an answer.

In a 10-minute phone call, he can answer more questions than a month's worth of emails. Stewart put it this way: "The phone was invented 100 years ago...and it f*ing still works."

There's also been the discovery of a fresh Drake 16v race motor. The motor was built, and apparently never raced. It is supposedly "fresh" and in Southern California. It's most likely the motor I once owned, but no way to completely verify that now since I don't remember what my serial number was. But if it were mine, that would explain why it's in Southern California -- when all of the other Drake 16v motors were sold out of state.

As a Drake 16v motor, it's built with about 1935cc, and either Okrasa crank, or Moldex billet crank, Carillow rods, and 14:1 compression ratio JE Pistons. It's complete with dry sump, dry sump pump, magneto (crank fire ignition), and distributor. It probably has the Hilborne fuel injection too, but I didn't confirm that. At 14:1 compression ratio, it was designed to run on methanol. Horsepower output would be apprixomately 275-285 horsepower at the crank. Price for the full race motor: $10,000. For anybody wanting to take this motor and turn it into a street motor, it's a steal of a deal -- especially considering the Okrasa or Moldex crank, Carillo rods, and dry sump. My hunch is this price is negotiable, but probably by no more than about $500 (that's just my guess).

Again, for people trying to reach Stewart, call, don't email, and don't leave messages:
Stewart Van Dyne
(714) 847-4417


----------



## vnichw (Nov 10, 2010)

*Whatever became of....*

Back in the early eighties my shop was doing business with Drake when you were still in Orange ,Ca. We bought several engines and other goodies(Headers,Liestritz exhausts,LAMBDA controls,suspensions, cams ...)I think just about everything as there were not many sources back then.. Anyway I remember dealing with Tim... where did he wind up?..Also. what would it take to make the centrifical advance cam gear?


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

vnichw said:


> Back in the early eighties my shop was doing business with Drake when you were still in Orange ,Ca. We bought several engines and other goodies(Headers,Liestritz exhausts,LAMBDA controls,suspensions, cams ...)I think just about everything as there were not many sources back then.. Anyway I remember dealing with Tim... where did he wind up?..Also. what would it take to make the centrifical advance cam gear?


Tim is Stewart's brother. Tim ended up in Tempe Arizona last I heard -- 20+ years ago. I don't know where he is today.

We had a prototype centrifugal cam gear that we dyno tested once. I don't remember if it made any power over the non-centri cam gear. It would seem likely that it made more torque in the bottom end, and same up top, but frankly I just don't remember. It was a rather clunky device loaded with springs.

What was the name of your shop...I might remember you.


----------



## vnichw (Nov 10, 2010)

*CDSI was the name*



PencilGeek said:


> Tim is Stewart's brother. Tim ended up in Tempe Arizona last I heard -- 20+ years ago. I don't know where he is today.
> 
> We had a prototype centrifugal cam gear that we dyno tested once. I don't remember if it made any power over the non-centri cam gear. It would seem likely that it made more torque in the bottom end, and same up top, but frankly I just don't remember. It was a rather clunky device loaded with springs.
> 
> What was the name of your shop...I might remember you.


CDSI we were in Lombard Illinios..


----------



## vnichw (Nov 10, 2010)

*centrifical advance gear*



vnichw said:


> CDSI we were in Lombard Illinios..


I remember Tim always trying to sell me one(so it would no longer be a prototype?). And remember being told the same low end and top end characteristics...


----------



## rabbitarmy (Nov 16, 2006)

If I thought I could get one of these into a car and running for $5k I'd do it, even though it means basically throwing out the first $5k or so I probably have into it. At $10k, plus the miscellaneous accessories, I'll just buy another car.


----------



## IronTrap (Jun 14, 2001)

So the "fresh" race engine is a friend of Stewart's? Did he ever talk cost for the complete engine he has in those pictures?


----------



## MEGA 16v GLI (Aug 31, 2010)

So much time, money, work and commitment would go into getting one of these heads running but there would be nothing that could compare to the outcome. I think the cost would be worth it in the end. 

I wish i could meet the designers just to thank them for making something so beautiful. 

Thanks for posting this piece of history for everybody to see.


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

saddest6day66 said:


> So the "fresh" race engine is a friend of Stewart's? Did he ever talk cost for the complete engine he has in those pictures?


:wave: I am watching you...........


----------



## IronTrap (Jun 14, 2001)

g60vw said:


> :wave: I am watching you...........


shhhhhhhh :laugh:


----------



## 35i 2000 (Jan 27, 2005)

1983rabbitgti said:


> almost every guy with a 16v would want one. this is *SUUUUUUPER* baller.


x2


----------



## ewillard (Apr 21, 2007)

I would love to have a full motor from drake. 9:1 comp for.boost with that head on e85 would make 4 digits ill bet


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

so have any of these been sold? whats the story as time has gone on here?


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

The story is you had Issam build you a motor and didn't buy one of these and give it a proper home in Jersey. 

/thread


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

g60vw said:


> The story is you had Issam build you a motor and didn't buy one of these and give it a proper home in Jersey.
> 
> /thread


 ha! Its not my responsibility to get the ball rolling here  you know he just built me a short block... could still use a cylinder head


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

Oh, I'm aware.  

Like you, I saw the thread had bumped and came looking for some death motor build, left disappointed.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

g60vw said:


> Oh, I'm aware.
> 
> Like you, I saw the thread had bumped and came looking for some death motor build, left disappointed.


 alas...


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

I would do dirty and shameful things for one of those..


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I would do dirty and shameful things for one of those..


 mow my lawn with your teeth?


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Digital K. said:


> mow my lawn with your teeth?


 how big is your yard, and mulch or bag?


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> how big is your yard, and mulch or bag?


 1/2 acre. I have a dog.


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Digital K. said:


> so have any of these been sold? whats the story as time has gone on here?


Yes, one complete motor project has been sold. That motor is in the final assembly stage, should be completed shortly, then will be engine dyno'd on the old Drake dyno. The project has been fully photographed and documented as it proceeds. Video footage will be taken on the dyno.

Once the project is completed, I'm sure the owner will post the pictures and video. Stay tuned until then.


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

What what what?!?! In for info. opcorn:


----------



## 1SlyGTI (Jun 17, 2010)

If it's of any consolation to anyone, I've saved all the pics and can/will host them when needed.

If anyone wants copies (compressed zip file) just shoot me a PM.


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

1SlyGTI said:


> If it's of any consolation to anyone, I've saved all the pics and can/will host them when needed.
> 
> If anyone wants copies (compressed zip file) just shoot me a PM.


You should also be able to download the photos directly from my server in 7MP resolution.
http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobucket/thumbnails.php?album=86

For any photos you want at full resolution, follow these instructions:


Click the "Add to Lightbox" check-box for the photos you want to save. If you want all of the photos on that page (there are multiple pages of photos), you can hit "Select All" at the bottom of the screen under "Lightbox actions." 
After you've selected the photos you want to download, press "Process selected" under "Lightbox actions" at the bottom of the screen.
Go back to the top of the screen and press the "My Favorites" button.
Click the "Download as ZIP" button near the top of the screen, and save to your computer.


----------



## slowest6 (Sep 1, 2003)

PencilGeek said:


> Yes, one complete motor project has been sold. That motor is in the final assembly stage, should be completed shortly, then will be engine dyno'd on the old Drake dyno. The project has been fully photographed and documented as it proceeds. Video footage will be taken on the dyno.
> 
> Once the project is completed, I'm sure the owner will post the pictures and video. Stay tuned until then.


 any updates yet?


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

slowest6 said:


> any updates yet?


 The bottom end is complete. Crank, rods, pistons installed. Block painted, oil pump installed, oil pan installed. Next task: assemble and install the Drake 16v head. We're shooting for early October for head installation (schedules all conflicting until then). 

Stay tuned.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Any heads left?


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Any heads left?


Yes.

And progress continues to be made on the build.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

PencilGeek said:


> Yes.
> 
> And progress continues to be made on the build.


 Could someone PM me with info?


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

PM sent.


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

is there still heads for sale?


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

max and tiny said:


> is there still heads for sale?


Yes, there's still 4 or 5 heads available for purchase. If Stewart runs out, then he owns all of the molds and CNC programming to make new ones.

Even though any purchase would have to be negotiated directly with Stewart, I'm sure I could answer almost any technical question that might come up. So if you want to start by contacting me to see if I can answer your questions, you're welcome to do so.

You're welcome to PM me, and I'll give you my phone number or private email address. We can then discuss it further.

The current project is coming right along.


----------



## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

PencilGeek said:


> Yes, there's still 4 or 5 heads available for purchase. If Stewart runs out, then he owns all of the molds and CNC programming to make new ones.
> 
> Even though any purchase would have to be negotiated directly with Stewart, I'm sure I could answer almost any technical question that might come up. So if you want to start by contacting me to see if I can answer your questions, you're welcome to do so.
> 
> ...



Everyoen wants to ask...its been over 3 months since your last posting...what is the outcome?


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

scott66 said:


> Everyoen wants to ask...its been over 3 months since your last posting...what is the outcome?


Since no original intake manifolds were still available, new ones had to be cast from the original molds. That took a lot longer than expected. But they are now cast, machined, and ready to use.

As of today, the motor is assembled. Now comes the tedious part of getting the correct accessories on the motor for the customer's car (correct water pump, alternator assembly, etc.). It's not hard, just time consuming and sometimes requires making custom brackets.

I know the owner plans to have his own build thread. I've already given him a few hundred pictures of the build in process. You'll just have to wait a little while longer until he does the big showing.


----------



## Albert87 (Sep 15, 2011)

PencilGeek said:


> Since no original intake manifolds were still available, new ones had to be cast from the original molds. That took a lot longer than expected. But they are now cast, machined, and ready to use.
> 
> As of today, the motor is assembled. Now comes the tedious part of getting the correct accessories on the motor for the customer's car (correct water pump, alternator assembly, etc.). It's not hard, just time consuming and sometimes requires making custom brackets.
> 
> I know the owner plans to have his own build thread. I've already given him a few hundred pictures of the build in process. You'll just have to wait a little while longer until he does the big showing.


Awesome. to hear!

i was just doing my weekly search your ass of anything VW related
and was going for race parts from VW and saw this thread
so much wonder.!

hope to see the build of that guy soon. sounds sweet!
i saved all of your photo's to so. twice backedup to! :thumbup: there safe

thanks for sharing. i got this one my two eyes on *close*


----------



## blackbunny (Jan 31, 2003)

is this done yet i need to hear it run


----------



## JUNN16v (Sep 20, 2013)

if i had the money id buy it in a heartbeat


----------



## vwabbitman (Mar 12, 2006)

im in for this. id love to have the completed engine if i can put it into a mk2.


----------



## Albert87 (Sep 15, 2011)

long time that i have been here :s sad to see there are no further updates. or for that matter a bigrelease that is actually runs!:thumbdown:


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Albert87 said:


> long time that i have been here :s sad to see there are no further updates. or for that matter a bigrelease that is actually runs!:thumbdown:


I realize it's been a long time, but I can assure you it hasn't fallen off the rails. Instead of going back through the thread to reacquaint myself with my own last status, I'll just give a status update even if some of it is redundant and been posted before.

Since the engine was assembled, much more needed to be done. New carburetor manifolds had to be cast. But when the molds were pulled out, they had been slightly damaged over the past 30+ years and had to be repaired before casting new manifolds. So now, manifolds are cast and been anodized.

The next hurdle are attaching the rest of the hardware like alternator. Since the Drake 16v head isn't a factory piece, all of this stuff needed to be fabricated.

The last time I saw the motor (two weeks ago), all of that had been done. There was one last piece of fabrication that needed to be completed before working on ignition. I know Van Dyne and the owner had been discussing ignition and I don't remember if they decided which way to go.

But rest assured, the project isn't off the rails, and nobody wants to see it completed any more than I do.

Anyways, I hope this gives a little more insight.


----------



## HASSEN S.A (Mar 18, 2011)

Add me on the list of guys who can't wait for the outcome. ....phew anticipation is killing me lol.


----------



## MancusoGTI8v (May 24, 2002)

*Updates...*

Please...

Luis


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Last I checked, the intake manifolds had been anodized and ready to assemble. The carbs we had originally chosen were going to need a complete rebuild since they sat around for such a long time. If memory serves me correctly, we had a set of Mikuni's chosen. But instead, I think the current plan is Weber 45 DCOE's. I believe the thinking was it would be just as inexpensive to buy the two Weber's as it would be to rebuild the Mikuni's.

In the next few weeks, I'll be down at Van Dyne Engineering checking on some of my other projects. I'll see if I can get a detailed update on the Drake 16V at the same time.


----------



## MancusoGTI8v (May 24, 2002)

Thanks. Suscribed.


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's an update.

The carb manifolds are done and installed. The throttle linkage was designed, manufactured and installed. The carbs were brand new Weber DCOE "old new stock" -- meaning they are brand new carbs from old stock. The carbs were refurbished with all new seals. The only remaining items seem to be the crankshaft spark trigger, and making spark plug wires. The crank trigger has already been designed, and is literally sitting in the lathe being machined today.

I'm told the carb set up looks bad-a$$; but I haven't seen any pictures of it.

After the last and final steps, this engine gets put on the dyno for break in, tuning, and power measurements.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## ShaggysGTI (May 15, 2009)

The flow of those manifolds to chamber is sick!


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

any updates for 2015?


----------



## blue plates (Apr 12, 2014)

redGTInj said:


> any updates for 2015?



Is he producing heads yet?


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

any updates?:wave:


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

blue plates said:


> Is he producing heads yet?


There's five or six heads available without producing any new ones. Give Van Dyne a call if interested.


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

redGTInj said:


> any updates?:wave:


The engine made its way to the dyno yesterday. It is being strapped down and will run over the next few days. But the Indy-500 comes right in the middle of this, and Van Dyne leaves for Indy Sunday night. If testing isn't completed by Sunday, then it will continue when he returns from Indy.

I live a few hundred miles away, so unfortunately I can't make it there to photo and video Friday (today) or Saturday. If there is dyno activity on Sunday, then I will drive down Saturday night, photograph and video.

Once it runs on the dyno, the owner has given permission to post a few photos. I have hundreds of photos so far. Hopefully I can get them all posted some day in the near future.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Awesome. 

As a long time die hard 16v guy... if you blow a motor and grenade a head- I'd happily stick the carnage in my garage as a conversation piece.


----------



## Mark Morris (Dec 15, 2001)

:thumbup:


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

The Drake 16V started on the dyno Friday. But now she takes about 10 days off while Van Dyne goes to Indy for the 500. Dyno will resume in about two weeks. I'm hoping we'll get video and sound clips...and of course dyno results.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

:thumbup:


----------



## FLiGLi84 (Dec 5, 2006)

pencilgeek said:


> the drake 16v started on the dyno friday. But now she takes about 10 days off while van dyne goes to indy for the 500. Dyno will resume in about two weeks. I'm hoping we'll get video and sound clips...and of course dyno results.


keep us posted!!


----------



## Permaslowedvr6 (Jul 12, 2013)

In for more info


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's a bit of a teaser. I'll try to get many more details posted in the next few days.

Engine: 1982 cc's
Compression: 9.5:1
Cylinder head: Drake Engineering 16v
Induction: Dual Weber 45 DCOE
Gasoline: 100 octane
Spark: MSD-6A Ignition

Horsepower: 211 hp @ 7300 RPMs
Torque: 164 ft/lbs @ 6400 RPMs

The engine developed 200 or more horsepower from 6400 RPMs to 8800 RPMs.

Wow!

I'll try to get graphs, photos, and videos posted soon, as time permits.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

please do :thumbup: why such low compression?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sweet Holy Ghost Peppers!


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

redGTInj said:


> please do :thumbup: why such low compression?


This is an old school motor without knock sensor and set to run on pump gasoline. I believe 9.5:1 is as high as you'd want to go.


----------



## TrackWerks (Dec 16, 2011)

That is the same compression as most boosted motors not running race fuel. More compression add a knock sensor if required 

Nice numbers but could be awesomer :laugh:


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

TrackWerks said:


> That is the same compression as most boosted motors not running race fuel. More compression add a knock sensor if required
> 
> Nice numbers but could be awesomer :laugh:


Of course it's possible. But adding advanced electronics and an ECU was not what this owner wanted. The owner wanted the engine to be built for the same era as the car that will receive it. It will run on 93 octane pump gas.


----------



## vwabbitman (Mar 12, 2006)

Would it be possible to run this on mk3 aba management(obd2 specifically)? 

Sent from my finger to yours


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Was this an engine dyno? As in, no drivetrain loss? No water pump, no power steering, no alt?


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

PowerDubs said:


> Was this an engine dyno? As in, no drivetrain loss? No water pump, no power steering, no alt?


Yes it is an engine dyno, no drivetrain loss. Water pump = yes, power steering = no, alternator = yes. The engine is configured exactly like it will go in the car.

I'm working to start a build thread, with photos and more details.


----------



## syncrogti (Sep 5, 2005)

PencilGeek said:


> Yes it is an engine dyno, no drivetrain loss. Water pump = yes, power steering = no, alternator = yes. The engine is configured exactly like it will go in the car.
> 
> I'm working to start a build thread, with photos and more details.


How soon will the build thread be ready, or where is it?


----------



## HASSEN S.A (Mar 18, 2011)

​Eagerly waiting for the updates or pics or anything. Come on Robert


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

HASSEN S.A said:


> ​Eagerly waiting for the updates or pics or anything. Come on Robert


I didn't realize I dropped the ball and didn't post any graphs or photos. I'll see if I can post a few photos and the dyno graphs over the next few days.


----------



## redGTInj (Jul 6, 2003)

please :thumbup:


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Thanks!


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Engine: 1982 cc's
Compression: 9.5:1
Cylinder head: Drake Engineering 16v
Induction: Dual Weber 45 DCOE
Gasoline: 100 octane
Spark: MSD-6A Ignition

Horsepower: 211 hp @ 7300 RPMs
Torque: 164 ft/lbs @ 6400 RPMs

The engine developed 200 or more horsepower from 6400 RPMs to 8800 RPMs.

Dyno Chart:



















Here's some photos of the finished engine, right before the dyno:
























































Photos of the engine on the dyno:


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Dear lord I need that cylinder head...sigh.

Thanks for the engine porn!


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Awesome. Any sound clips?


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

PowerDubs said:


> Awesome. Any sound clips?


I do. I have video of the dyno, but it's not edited. Give me a few days and I'll upload something to youtube.


----------



## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's another dyno chart with smoothing enabled.


----------



## 92_MK_2 (Oct 11, 2010)

i want in... opcorn:


----------



## California 16v (Jul 20, 2008)

I just read this whole thread 



B4S said:


> Dear lord I need that cylinder head...sigh.
> 
> Thanks for the engine porn!


As others have said I'd love to have one of these heads on one my VW engines 

Although if I had the money, I'd have the engine and head built by Van Dyne Engineering and put in a Formula Vee 



PencilGeek said:


> Engine: 1982 cc's
> Compression: 9.5:1
> Cylinder head: Drake Engineering 16v
> Induction: Dual Weber 45 DCOE
> ...


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

AWESOME !!!

Looking forward to seeing more updates


----------



## atmengineering (Sep 9, 2016)

Hi, 

Does anyone have an email address for Van Dyne Engineering, the one on there website doesn't seem to work 

Kind Regards,


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## PencilGeek (Mar 15, 2011)

atmengineering said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have an email address for Van Dyne Engineering, the one on there website doesn't seem to work
> 
> Kind Regards,


I responded to your PM and provided email and phone number.


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## boomenstein (Nov 17, 2003)

Hey There, 

Any updates on this thread? 
Did you get a build thread started? 

:beer:


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## Dets97GTI2pointOH (Sep 2, 2006)

Did anyone end up getting one of these heads, and build a motor for a street car?
Would love to find out, and see some pics if so.
I have 2 built high compression NA engines, an 8v aba/MK3 and a 16v 9a/MK2, both with 40mm over pistons, large valves/cams, and extensive head work with attention to combustion chambers, runners, seats, and flow. I've put more $ into both these engines, than what was being asked for these Drake heads, so the price seems more than reasonable, for an NA nut like myself, IMO. Something about small displacement engine light cars with instant torque, and close ratio gearing, i just cant get enough of.
Does anyone know how these compare to the SPA heads, or if anyone on here has done a NA SPA build?


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

40mm overbore? Hmmmmmmm


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Oversquare to the max. 

Some of the cylinders are in a different time zone.


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## BOROKO (Aug 19, 2017)

Fascinating thread. I'd love to see the outcome. I feel kind of small now trying to build a 16v ABA...


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