# EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (coming soon!!)



## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuning.com* »_Preview pictures of the new VW 2.5-liter Rabbit and Jetta V, all-stainless steel, 5-into-1 evoheader (#A5201) coming up soon. This header features a unique 1-pc collector and a sequential swirl discharge from each cylinder per firing order for a strong mid range torque: 157lb/ft @ 3500 and [email protected] at the wheels. At least 150lb/ft available from 2950 to 4950rpm (stock peak is 145lb/ft from 3600 to 3900rpm). These numbers are in combination with the A5301 evoair intake. More info coming up.

pics!!
















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Maestor_Shake (May 10, 2004)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (~kInG~)*








i can't wait to get full exhaust now!


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## trastrim (Aug 11, 2006)

is it just me, or do these gains look like what GIAC dyno'd the rabbit at stock(at the wheels)?


_Modified by trastrim at 9:54 PM 7-5-2007_


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (Maestor_Shake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Maestor_Shake* »_







i can't wait to get full exhaust now!

We will have these headers soon. I've driven in the Evolution project Rabbit with this header in it and it pulled nice.
For those looking to this header system and a TT cat-back exhaust combo, give us a call when that time comes and we'll put a nice package price together for you.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (MJM Autohaus)*

Would some thing like this be able to cause a cel?



_Modified by digitaltim at 6:49 PM 7-5-2007_


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## EvilWabbit (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_
We will have these headers soon. I've driven in the Evolution project Rabbit with this header in it and it pulled nice.
For those looking to this header system and a TT cat-back exhaust combo, give us a call when that time comes and we'll put a nice package price together for you. 

Let's do a group buy or if not free shipping to both US and Canada.
We canadian always get hit with high shipping charges


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## ahson (Jul 23, 2000)

Beside the shipping charge...remember there is something call custom fees too. Oh man


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

will this header works with any cat-back exhaust?


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## silverA4quattro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (~kInG~)*

Wow:
This plus exhaust and intake and software. Yummy.
Guess we just need a good high flow catalyst next.


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

what $$ are we looking @?


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (~kInG~)*

It looks like this should completely replace the stock exhaust manifold...
It should work with any cat-back exhaust, as it attaches to the other side of the cat.
It shouldn't throw a CEL.


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

btw im no expert but why all weird bends?


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_btw im no expert but why all weird bends?

because al the runners(tubes) are of equal length


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

equal distance for each cylinder I believe....


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## Jimmy Russells (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (rental_metard)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rental_metard* »_equal distance for each cylinder I believe....

Yessir, scavanges the exhaust better that way http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

And let's not forget one of the most basic things... the runners are tubular.


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (ninety9gl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_Would some thing like this be able to cause a cel?


Absolutely no CELs on Evolution's Rabbit that we drove.

_Quote, originally posted by *EvilWabbit* »_Let's do a group buy or if not free shipping to both US and Canada.
We canadian always get hit with high shipping charges









If you guys want to put together some kind of 'Canadian Special Deal' on a decent number of kits, just let us know. I'm sure something can be worked out for you chaps north of the border.

_Quote, originally posted by *ahson* »_Beside the shipping charge...remember there is something call custom fees too. Oh man

Not with USPS!









_Quote, originally posted by *rabbit07* »_will this header works with any cat-back exhaust?

No reason why it shouldn't, but I'm sure Vic from Evolution will drop his two pennies on that.









_Quote, originally posted by *silverA4quattro* »_Wow:
This plus exhaust and intake and software. Yummy.
Guess we just need a good high flow catalyst next.

For those wanting to do an intake/exhaust/software special, just let us know. We can certainly work out something for you.

_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_what $$ are we looking @?

On?!?!?!? Whatcha looking for?


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

how much for the header?


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## Apoc112 (Jun 11, 2003)

i'm curious about the pricing for the header, as well as the header + TT exhaust combo for the Jetta


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## ahson (Jul 23, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Absolutely no CELs on Evolution's Rabbit that we drove.
If you guys want to put together some kind of 'Canadian Special Deal' on a decent number of kits, just let us know. I'm sure something can be worked out for you chaps north of the border.
Not with USPS!








No reason why it shouldn't, but I'm sure Vic from Evolution will drop his two pennies on that.








For those wanting to do an intake/exhaust/software special, just let us know. We can certainly work out something for you.
On?!?!?!? Whatcha looking for?

That's what I call a Customer Service! Good job
Anyways, yea keep us update guys.


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
On?!?!?!? Whatcha looking for?

wondering if you guys had pricing already for the headers a lone


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*

Evolution has not released the header yet, but as soon as they do, we'll have solid pricing on them, lead times for shipping, etc.
The minute Victor at Evo lets us know something, this forum will be the first to find out.


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## 860redrabbit (Dec 5, 2006)

group buy possibly? I want one


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (rental_metard)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rental_metard* »_equal distance for each cylinder I believe....

This is Victor with Evolution. Yes, the header has 5 equal length tubes that need to be arranged so that they fit in the space available. The lengths are tuned for mid range and top end using 2nd and 3th order resonance waves. The header fits without any modification where the original sheet metal manifold sits. Taking advantage of the flex tube section on the downpipe before the cat, the evoheaer provides a more straight flow design. The idea behind equal length is simply splitting a single 5-cylinder engine into 5 1-cylinder engines. In other words, each cylinder has exactly the same equipment to work with lengthwise. 
The layout of the tubes follow the standard firing order 12453 to create a natural swirl inside the unique and specially-tooled 5-into-1 collector. this effect minimizes back pressure and arranges the columns of exhaust gas in an orderly fashion during hard acceleration, so the discharge is quick. This enhances midrange without limiting top end. think of when you flush a toilet, or flip a bottle upside down to empty it while spinning it. This technique is standard in racing but difficult to achieve because of the effort to route the tubes during design and development.
Of course there are no CELs. Otherwise the product would not be complete. Feel free to comment.
We plan cost on this hand made part to be around other stainless steel units out there, 750-850. but it is still to be determined.
Certainly packages will be available to offer some savings. 
Thanks, V


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## theaveragejoe73 (May 21, 2007)

my concern is that the gains posted are in combination with the intake... i have a strong suspicion that most of the gains are the result of the intake and not this thing.... the intake (or any intake) is much cheaper than buying this...


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (theaveragejoe73)*

That is a pretty reasonable price for a stainless steel header...though there are certainly few 5-cyl headers to compare to.
It would be silly to do a header on a car with a stock air intake... headers are one of those parts that makes more out of the mods you have than necessarily giving you MADCRZY GAINZ in and of itself... Particularly with cams.
Though a good question - does the car that was dyno tested have any kind of cat-back exhaust, or is it still being restricted by the stock pieces?


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (theaveragejoe73)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theaveragejoe73* »_my concern is that the gains posted are in combination with the intake... i have a strong suspicion that most of the gains are the result of the intake and not this thing.... the intake (or any intake) is much cheaper than buying this...

Well, of course. Nothing new in this comment. This has been widely known and accepted in racing and performance tuning. And most certainly should not be a 'concern', it is just a natural process. Tuning an engine first requires giving it access to the most amount of air, but once you max that option, next comes helping it get rid of the additional exhaust gases through headers and cat backs. And so on, you keep adding improvements in search of more power. But as you get higher and higher, it naturally cost more because more parts need to be replaced. The easiest hp to gain are the first, just like loosing weight: the first pounds are easy, then gradually it becomes harder. The best bang for the buck is definitely the evoair. But for those not stopping there and wanting more, the header is the next choice. A bigger air filter won't do anymore. At that level, it is really what the engine can process. I hope this illustrates the idea here. Thanks, Vic.


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (ninety9gl)*

It would be silly to do a header on a car with a stock air intake... headers are one of those parts that makes more out of the mods you have than necessarily giving you MADCRZY GAINZ in and of itself... Particularly with cams.
Though a good question - does the car that was dyno tested have any kind of cat-back exhaust, or is it still being restricted by the stock pieces?[/QUOTE]
You got it, our car was tested with the stock exhaust system and then a Jetex. The OEM parts actually performed better since the 3" only yielded about 1-2hp at the top and actually took away 3 at mid range. This is a good example of what is more cost effective. Needless to say, the OEM system is back on and the Jetex was sent back. Still a search for an aftermarket cat back to work along will continue.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

But more importantly







....
How did it sound with the full exhuast system?


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_But more importantly







....
How did it sound with the full exhuast system?

The sound was good, not too loud. there was a minor humming at idle that i would choose not to have. Maybe camshafts would make the exhaust note more interesting and sharper.


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_But more importantly







....
How did it sound with the full exhuast system?

Heck, the one time I drove the car, I liked how it sounded with just the intake and header system. Not what I expected from the 2.5L 5-cyl, but nice nonetheless.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *absoluteczech* »_what $$ are we looking @?

I would estimate about $1300US given the materials & labour involved to make that manifold.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I would estimate about $1300US given the materials & labour involved to make that manifold.


_Quote, originally posted by *Evolution* »_
We plan cost on this hand made part to be around other stainless steel units out there, 750-850.


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## QuiescentPlunge (Aug 9, 2006)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (~kInG~)*

I'm wet.
And who do I send my money to?


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## VW_tayder (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

looks like a very well built product. but, not so sure its worth the est. $750-$850 for that little hp. yes i realize it will show more gains with more mods (cams, chip, etc) but damn that might have to be one of the last mods..and i have always been a hardcore NA guy too. guess not that heardcarore


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## NaKoRuRu (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: (VW_tayder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_tayder* »_ looks like a very well built product. but, not so sure its worth the est. $750-$850 for that little hp. yes i realize it will show more gains with more mods (cams, chip, etc) but damn that might have to be one of the last mods..and i have always been a hardcore NA guy too. guess not that heardcarore









x2


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## QuiescentPlunge (Aug 9, 2006)

*Re: (VW_tayder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_tayder* »_ looks like a very well built product. but, not so sure its worth the est. $750-$850 for that little hp. yes i realize it will show more gains with more mods (cams, chip, etc) but damn that might have to be one of the last mods..and i have always been a hardcore NA guy too. guess not that heardcarore









Everyone always expects huge gains from exhausts and intakes and stuff but don't realize that each one on it's own does little. The header is just one piece of the puzzle.
And as for the price: Well it's a lot of work to bend those pipes like that and make sure they are perfectly even. But I would agree it's a bit steep when most performance headers for other cars go for $500 and less. They are just capitalizing on being the first and only manufacturer. So if you want the price to go down make some yourself or talk a shop into making some and get some competition going. But for now beggars can't be choosers.
I think it looks nice, and this company looks real good as far as quality and putting a lot of time into this car. Kudos to Evolution tuning for supporting the 2.5 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dumbassmozart* »_
...


Thats cost....,I would love to see it sell for the 750-850 price


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (QuiescentPlunge)*

A lot of stainless headers are in the $600 range for 4-cyls... obviously 5 cylinders is going to take more raw material and more labor.
So let's say it's $850, and each runner is roughly 1/6 of the materials/contruction... That's about $140/cyl. A $600 4-cyl header would be about $120/cyl (if each runner broke down to 1/5 of the materials and labor).
Now that's totally arbitrary, but it sounds about right considering the construction... if anything, the runners probably take up more than that (out of the cost of production considering both materials and construction).
Plus, didn't the cost of stainless just go up on just about every site?


_Modified by ninety9gl at 11:14 PM 7-6-2007_


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (ninety9gl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ninety9gl* »_
Plus, didn't the cost of stainless just go up on just about every site?

Yep. someone made mention of this on a thread about Techtonics, if my memory serves me.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

I think that was me..I know the prices of the exhaust systems went up 10% do to metal cost. 
I actually had bought a TT exhaust. The day I received it the price went up $200+ over what I paid for it......guess what I did...........sold it.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_I think that was me..I know the prices of the exhaust systems went up 10% do to metal cost. 
I actually had bought a TT exhaust. The day I received it the price went up $200+ over what I paid for it......guess what I did...........sold it.

Do you wish you still had it to go with that Carbonio?


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (QuiescentPlunge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuiescentPlunge* »_I'm wet.
And who do I send my money to?









Patience. Not yet.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

yes, but the profit payed for half the intake. ;-) 
The buyer saved $ so he made out too.
Since the single magnaflow systems are going for around $250 installed I think less than $400 for a dual magnaflow muffler system is doable.
Honestly.....I'm not sure that I'll do anything else. I'm happy with it now.
The wife isn't working.....another baby coming next month..... Summer seems to be the time for house upgrades..I'm sure we all can discuss priorities. I certainly don't need to throw $ in to my vehicle right now.
The $750+ for this header is out of the question for me. 
Of course impulse is an ugly and wonderful thing








I'll keep tabs on the new stuff coming out ( like this header) and see whats possible.
I'm sure impulse will win eventually.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_
The wife isn't working.....another baby coming next month..... Summer seems to be the time for house upgrades..

We are in completely different boats. Maybe even on different planets.


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_
Of course impulse is an ugly and wonderful thing










Yet we're the same.


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## John0 (Jun 2, 2007)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

With the picture of the header installed on the car, it looks like it would be a perfect time for cams. Anyone know if there are cams out yet for the car? Header, exhaust, intake, chip & cams could be a pretty little combo......
Nice job with the header....but I bet it will be expensive. Evo's Intake is the most expensive on the market rolling in decently over 300+ shipping.


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

its time to start working again. intake cams headers chip ....sheesh


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## turbomyJetta (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*

im gonna have to keep an eye on this one and wait for more updates.
all i have now is the VWpartsMTL intake
but is seems to be a thing of the past now.
i've been looking for an exhaust but i just got lazy and cheap, so im thinking about taking it to the muffler shop and cutting the res. off
maybe i should wait on this?
headers+exhaust = http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ?


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## Gr8mafy (Jun 15, 2003)

to MJM on this...
Can we get some round about numbers on a group buy if say this Header costs 750-800?
GB on Header and TT exhaust.. Anything you might be able to pull out of the air so we know what prices to look for would be great. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Turb0Chipped (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (Gr8mafy)*

finally somebody realized an 8" long 5-1 exhaust manifold is crap when it comes to getting rid of exhaust , everyone's worried about the best intakes, like said the air has to go out too! That header looks *amazing*!!!!! Does this works with factory exhaust/cat to? (I hope) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (Turb0Chipped)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turb0Chipped* »_finally somebody realized an 8" long 5-1 exhaust manifold is crap when it comes to getting rid of exhaust , everyone's worried about the best intakes, like said the air has to go out too! That header looks *amazing*!!!!! *Does this works with factory exhaust/cat to? (I hope) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif* 

I believe it does... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

this is an equal length header. equal length headers are not cheap. they are much better then a conventional header due to the fact that back pressure on all the cylinders are the same.


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

hey are we actually gonna get a performance mod before the 2.0t guys?

Headers look awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## flynavyj (Jan 26, 2007)

header looks very very nice....Now go steal some lambo camshafts and see how she breathes.


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (flynavyj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flynavyj* »_header looks very very nice....Now go steal some lambo camshafts and see how she breathes. 

I could not agree more.
Yes, the A5201 header fits the stock catalytic, and works with everything around the engine, a true bolt-on. The header was designed to resonate using 2nd and 3th waves which results in tuning engine speeds of 3600-3800 rpm and 5500-5900 rpm depending on temperature. It needs some more help from other parts in the works to emphasize this personality change for the engine power curve. Thanks for your patience, work is underway.


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## QuiescentPlunge (Aug 9, 2006)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_I could not agree more.
Yes, the A5201 header fits the stock catalytic, and works with everything around the engine, a true bolt-on. The header was designed to resonate using 2nd and 3th waves which results in tuning engine speeds of 3600-3800 rpm and 5500-5900 rpm depending on temperature. It needs some more help from other parts in the works to emphasize this personality change for the engine power curve. Thanks for your patience, work is underway.

I'd love to buy the stock cylinder head body and slowly work on it and add parts. But it costs so damn much.
Question for Evolution: What are your thoughts on wrapping your header?


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## Scratchmaster_J (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (QuiescentPlunge)*

All I can say is WOW! Mad props, looks beautiful.


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

thats very nice


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (QuiescentPlunge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuiescentPlunge* »_
I'd love to buy the stock cylinder head body and slowly work on it and add parts. But it costs so damn much.
Question for Evolution: What are your thoughts on wrapping your header?

Sure, there may be some benefits in conserving the gases as hot as possible by limiting the heat transfer to the outside. When we designed it, we tried to pack it (there is no other way since the limited space available) in such a way that the tubes were as close to each other as possible to preserve a hot region. It also resulted in a beautiful piece, too bad you cannot see the whole thing once it is in.
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

i like how people think 12lb ft or torque is a crappy gain for $750-$850. sorry to be harsh, but you guys are idiots that think this. modding a car for more power is not something you should be doing if you think this way.
the same was said the exhausts that gave about 6hp, chip at 10hp, intake at 20hp, and now a header with probably another 6hp or so. hello guys...if i add this to my collection of mods, thats a 40+hp gain for only $2100-ish. 
thats INSAAAAAAAAAANE! if you dont think its a lot, well, then you dont know what an extra 40hp is, so go get another hobby or get your ideas straight and educate yourself.
anyway, the second this is released, sign me up.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_.
the same was said the exhausts that gave about 6hp, chip at 10hp, intake at 20hp, and now a header with probably another 6hp or so. hello guys...if i add this to my collection of mods, thats a 40+hp gain for only $2100-ish. 



I wish they could show gains with just the header. Just to have a better idea of what the $750+ is actually doing. Though, I realize it will help other mods reach their full potential.
Even the chip with intake dynos we've been shown only show between 15 to 20HP gains.
From what I've been told, the HP doesn't stack like legos. Rather all the mods help each other squeeze out little more HP.
40HP gain would be sweet for $2100, but I'm not sure that can be a reality. 
_Modified by digitaltim at 2:20 PM 7-10-2007_


_Modified by digitaltim at 2:21 PM 7-10-2007_


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## ninety9gl (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_HP doesn't stack like legos.


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## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (digitaltim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *digitaltim* »_

I wish they could show gains with just the header. Just to have a better idea of what the $750+ is actually doing. Though, I realize it will help other mods reach their full potential.
Even the chip with intake dynos we've been shown only show between 15 to 20HP gains.
From what I've been told, the HP doesn't stack like legos. Rather all the mods help each other squeeze out little more HP.
40HP gain would be sweet for $2100, but I'm not sure that can be a reality. 
_Modified by digitaltim at 2:20 PM 7-10-2007_

_Modified by digitaltim at 2:21 PM 7-10-2007_

HP doesnt stack like lego's at all. I like that one.
Also the 2.5 is na. 15-20hp for a naturally asperated car from a chip or intake is pretty darn good. I remember chips for 16v and vr's back in the day adding 5-8hp.


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (drivrswntd)*

oh.yeah, that didn;t come out quite the way I meant..........
I meant that the chip alone can give 15..or the cai alone gives about 15...so far the 2 biggest gains we have available, but together they're between 15 -20. 
And before anyone jumps on me: I know there's other advantages than just HP / torque.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

i guess the only way to tell is with a dyno after i get my header and see what im making at the wheels. ill have a friend dyno a stock 2.5L the same day at roughly the same time on the same dyno to see the results.


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## QuiescentPlunge (Aug 9, 2006)

*Re: (travis3265)*

You guys are such a tough crowd.








IMHO this is the best mod for this engine yet. Sure it's not going to add 4325789345978 to your peak hp; but who cares. With proper tuning and intake it'll make our torque line look more like - and not ^ (like those other, plastic far east cars with the funny writing on them)


_Modified by QuiescentPlunge at 4:13 PM 7-12-2007_


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## SpeedJunkie (Jun 3, 2004)

*Re: (QuiescentPlunge)*

You want a flat _ torque curve? I would rather have one like this / ...


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## Uberbunni (Jun 5, 2007)

*Re: (SpeedJunkie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpeedJunkie* »_You want a flat _ torque curve? I would rather have one like this / ...























http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Gr8mafy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sl33pyb* »_its time to start working again. intake cams headers chip ....sheesh 

When the headers are released, if you would like to a chip/header/exhaust combo all at once, we could certainly put something together for you as a package deal to save you guys a few bucks.

_Quote, originally posted by *Gr8mafy* »_to MJM on this...
Can we get some round about numbers on a group buy if say this Header costs 750-800?
GB on Header and TT exhaust.. Anything you might be able to pull out of the air so we know what prices to look for would be great. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Group buys would have to be approved through Evolution first, as they are the manufacturer. Many manufacturers are against group buys. If Evolution allows it, we'll certainly put one together for the 2.5L junkies.
If Vic and company at Evo will not allow a group buy on just the header system alone, then we can put together something where we combine the header system with a Techtonics cat-back exhaust.
No worries, fellas...when these headers are ready to go to market and ready to ship, you know we'll make it worth your while. We want to see these things on your cars as much as you do!


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## Uberbunni (Jun 5, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

thats awsome! Anyone want to buy an alienware laptop? I need to bankroll these new projects somehow. 
Is there any ETA time frame you can give us???


----------



## turbomyJetta (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
When the headers are released, if you would like to a 
*chip/header/exhaust combo all at once* , we could certainly put something together for you as a package deal to save you guys a few bucks.


sign me up


----------



## drivrswntd (Dec 8, 1999)

*Re: (Uberbunni)*

Are you going to be making a high flow cat section to go between the header and the exhaust system? The gigantic stock cat must be creating some HP loss. Of course if you made the part it would be an "offroad use only piece" . I know for example on the Porsche 997s, when you do a full system , mufflers, headers, and high flow cats. the high flow cats provide the single biggest gain in the system.


----------



## blackoutjetta (Jul 3, 2006)

Car guys i need some help on answering my question that i have.... Okay on my car i have an ABD racing CAI, and the resonator delete, with a mangaflow muffler. When i added my magnaflow muffler i felt like a lost a little torque because i believe too much air flow can be a bad thing (correct me if im wrong), now if i get these headers will this result into more torque loss because that is just to much air flow? can anyone help me on this... thanks


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (~kInG~)*

wow I love it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ......need to stop spending money


----------



## turbomyJetta (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (spdfrek)*

any updates on this sucker?


----------



## Plain (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (~kInG~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *~kInG~* »_ 
















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

oooooo Yes please! Just heard about these at waterfest!


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (turbomyJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbomyJetta* »_any updates on this sucker?

Just spoke to Vic at Evo yesterday and they are in currently in production. 
There is going to be a limited amount available on this first run of them, so if any of you would like to get in on a set and pre-order them, let us know.


----------



## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (VW_tayder)*

The power gains sound pretty small, but hopefully the power that is gain doesnt sacrifice any low-end torque. I do alot of city driving and that off-the-line grunt is important to me.
And $750 to $850 for a header is just outrageous!!!
So....when can I buy it again?


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_The power gains sound pretty small, but hopefully the power that is gain doesnt sacrifice any low-end torque. I do alot of city driving and that off-the-line grunt is important to me.
And $750 to $850 for a header is just outrageous!!!
So....when can I buy it again?









Guys, keep in mind that the gains that we are posting with our evoair intake (A5301) and the upcoming header (A5201) are as bolt-ons with no other adjustment for performance (OEM mapping, no performance software). 
For those easily persuaded by peak gains only, there is more to the picture than just maximums. These products are designed to move the entire curves up, evenly. So, you may see a 'small' gain of 10 lb/ft max, but it just happens that it spreads over a 4000 rpm range. Specifically, that means increased acceleration from the start.
During the dyno runs, the baseline curves recorded an expected 14.5 stoichiometric ratio (A/F). With the evoair, and later the evoheader, there was a sensible lean in the mix (14.7 or so, well within normal range) which means that with a more aggressive mapping, say using 13.5 to 12.7 A/F at WOT, the gains will be accordingly. a std rule of thumb for A/F ratios would say the power gains closely follow the enrichment of the mixture around the 14s and 13s neighborhood. If you do the math, that is about 6-8% additional.
So, the near future will have us developing a special software map that will address the flow gains acquired with these parts (and the rest coming behind these 2).
I also agree with the comment on cost, seriously. Sadly, or luckily, depending on your relative position, equipment like this has never been, or will never be for everyone. Nor the hobby of tuning cars for all practical purposes. Good thing these are entry level VWs and not Porsches, where $ 850 will barely replace the plugs. These days it is pretty hard to up the OEM equipment because it is always improving. So, a lot of thinking and money is required to make them go somewhat faster. And those with the means will be always pleased








Thanks always for your feedback. vic at evolution.


----------



## studio19sound (Dec 14, 2006)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
...So, the near future will have us developing a special software map that will address the flow gains acquired with these parts (and the rest coming behind these 2)...

mmmm hmmm. sounds like a man with a mission!
***offering my bunny as a guinea pig for this!!!***


----------



## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
Guys, keep in mind that the gains that we are posting with our evoair intake (A5301) and the upcoming header (A5201) are as bolt-ons with no other adjustment for performance (OEM mapping, no performance software). 
For those easily persuaded by peak gains only, there is more to the picture than just maximums. These products are designed to move the entire curves up, evenly. So, you may see a 'small' gain of 10 lb/ft max, but it just happens that it spreads over a 4000 rpm range. Specifically, that means increased acceleration from the start.
During the dyno runs, the baseline curves recorded an expected 14.5 stoichiometric ratio (A/F). With the evoair, and later the evoheader, there was a sensible lean in the mix (14.7 or so, well within normal range) which means that with a more aggressive mapping, say using 13.5 to 12.7 A/F at WOT, the gains will be accordingly. a std rule of thumb for A/F ratios would say the power gains closely follow the enrichment of the mixture around the 14s and 13s neighborhood. If you do the math, that is about 6-8% additional.
So, the near future will have us developing a special software map that will address the flow gains acquired with these parts (and the rest coming behind these 2).
I also agree with the comment on cost, seriously. Sadly, or luckily, depending on your relative position, equipment like this has never been, or will never be for everyone. Nor the hobby of tuning cars for all practical purposes. Good thing these are entry level VWs and not Porsches, where $ 850 will barely replace the plugs. These days it is pretty hard to up the OEM equipment because it is always improving. So, a lot of thinking and money is required to make them go somewhat faster. And those with the means will be always pleased








Thanks always for your feedback. vic at evolution.

M.E. FTW!!!!


----------



## chaindrivefive (Apr 5, 2007)

Has anyone done emmissions testing on their modified rabbits (intake, exhaust header, chipping, etc.)? I am interested in mods, but not at any cost in terms of emissions. When Vic talks about more agressive Air/Fuel mappings, I can only assume that this would make the emission worse. Currently, an unmodified Rabbit is one of the best cars for low emissions...


----------



## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (chaindrivefive)*

I'd venture it still wouldn't have outrageous emissions


----------



## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (MJM Autohaus)*

Do we have a solid price for this yet?


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (VW_tayder)*

u can by a cat back system for 5-600 dollars and get better gains..it doesnt sound to tempting to spend more than that for just the headers. excatly how much horsepower will this header give you by itself?


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (geronimo542)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geronimo542* »_u can by a cat back system for 5-600 dollars and get better gains..it doesnt sound to tempting to spend more than that for just the headers. excatly how much horsepower will this header give you by itself?

I am not sure i understand your comment. a cat back and a header are totally different parts, one does not substitute the other unless budget is an issue, but both can work great provided they are well designed. The cat back will give you what the factory did not due to cost (larger OD tubes, higher quality bends, etc.) and target market and DOT regulations (economy car, sound levels, etc.). It will decrease backpressure created by restrictions and compromises with the OEM equipment. The engine will breathe better, the way it was meant ideally if you wish. 
The header on the other hand will give you more than the factory ever planned to offer, ideally or realistically. The proper dimensioning of the header will change the behavior of the engine at certain predetermined rpm ranges to give a desired increase in performance. These improvements are further enhanced with other parts working along such as intakes, cams, mapping, etc. The header alone will only give a good hint of what it can do if the rest of the equipment in the engine is matched, or 'tuned' to work along. 
This is why at evolution we have started with the evoair intake and then follow with the header for our 2.5 engine program. Other parts are in development that will further enhance the volumetric efficiency of the engine to go beyond the very conservative 60hp/liter factory figure to a more respectful level. 
remember, it is all in the flow. thanks for the feedback, vic at evo


----------



## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

I have the feeling that I will be giving you a lot of my money.


----------



## NaKoRuRu (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
I am not sure i understand your comment. a cat back and a header are totally different parts, one does not substitute the other unless budget is an issue, but both can work great provided they are well designed. The cat back will give you what the factory did not due to cost (larger OD tubes, higher quality bends, etc.) and target market and DOT regulations (economy car, sound levels, etc.). It will decrease backpressure created by restrictions and compromises with the OEM equipment. The engine will breathe better, the way it was meant ideally if you wish. 
The header on the other hand will give you more than the factory ever planned to offer, ideally or realistically. The proper dimensioning of the header will change the behavior of the engine at certain predetermined rpm ranges to give a desired increase in performance. These improvements are further enhanced with other parts working along such as intakes, cams, mapping, etc. The header alone will only give a good hint of what it can do if the rest of the equipment in the engine is matched, or 'tuned' to work along. 
This is why at evolution we have started with the evoair intake and then follow with the header for our 2.5 engine program. Other parts are in development that will further enhance the volumetric efficiency of the engine to go beyond the very conservative 60hp/liter factory figure to a more respectful level. 
remember, it is all in the flow. thanks for the feedback, vic at evo

Niiice reply.


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (NaKoRuRu)*

so anyways when is this thing going to be available? is there any talk about an exhaust to match the headers?


----------



## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (geronimo542)*

Perhaps something with an option of a center-exit? lol And no smaller than 2.5" in diameter so that we do see some noticeable power gains compared to stock but yet nothing larger than 2.75" because I do still want to maintain enough backpressure for some low-end torque. And only one muffler please (no secondary or "resonator"). If you could match an exhaust to these headers and maybe a high-flow cat (or test pipe, hehehe) to bridge the gap between them, I will be giving you my debit card.


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_Perhaps something with an option of a center-exit? lol And no smaller than 2.5" in diameter so that we do see some noticeable power gains compared to stock but yet nothing larger than 2.75" because I do still want to maintain enough backpressure for some low-end torque. And only one muffler please (no secondary or "resonator"). If you could match an exhaust to these headers and maybe a high-flow cat (or test pipe, hehehe) to bridge the gap between them, I will be giving you my debit card.

Thank you guys for all the comments, they are really important for me to shape the course of this program. So, please there are no good or bad questions, keep them coming and allow me to explain to the best of my knowledge. I am certainly doing this for business, this is how i make a living and i love it. But i am also commited to give you back lots of smiles through top quality/designed products to have fun with, in exchange for your hard earned money.
On the cat backs, i plan to try other systems out there, no need to reinvent having so many options ready to go. But i want to wait until parts in the works are ready and i can zero down on a specific catback (one muffler, no resonator, etc.) once projected flow needs have surfaced. thanx, vic at evo.


----------



## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

stop complaining about the price... people who are.... they are equal length headers with wonderful tubing design. im sure some regular ass headers will be out soon for 400$ , but don't expect better gains then these. cant wait


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*

agree this thing is gonna be sweet but its gonna be even sweeter when there is an exhaust to match it cause the stock one is not all that good with the double resonator design..cant wait!


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (geronimo542)*

so whens this gonna be released?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (geronimo542)*


_Quote, originally posted by *~kInG~* »_
M.E. FTW!!!!









I'm pretty sure you meant Mechanical Engineer, right?










_Quote, originally posted by *geronimo542* »_so whens this gonna be released?

The bun is in the oven as we speak, fellas. Vic and Evolution are working on them now. Just a little bit of patience. Rest assured, the minute these are available to ship, MJM Autohaus will make the announcement on the greatest Volkwagen forum ever made!








And on the question about exhaust systems to go with it, we'll be offering these with what we feel are some of the very finest exhaust systems on the market for watercooled VWs - Techtonics exhaust systems!


----------



## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I'm pretty sure you meant Mechanical Engineer, right?









you know it!!!


----------



## vr_vento95 (Nov 26, 2004)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
Thank you guys for all the comments, they are really important for me to shape the course of this program. So, please there are no good or bad questions, keep them coming and allow me to explain to the best of my knowledge. I am certainly doing this for business, this is how i make a living and i love it. But i am also commited to give you back lots of smiles through top quality/designed products to have fun with, in exchange for your hard earned money.
On the cat backs, i plan to try other systems out there, no need to reinvent having so many options ready to go. But i want to wait until parts in the works are ready and i can zero down on a specific catback (one muffler, no resonator, etc.) once projected flow needs have surfaced. thanx, vic at evo.

just wanted to say thanks for all the r&d and being so quick to answer our questions.


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (vr_vento95)*

Vic is the man! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scratchmaster_J (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

A question for Vic. How hard has it been to extract horsepower from the inline 5, is this an engine that responds easily to mods or has it been a pain to extract the smallest amount of horsepower??? Final question. How much hp do you think this engine can handle without any internals changed? Thanks.


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (Scratchmaster_J)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scratchmaster_J* »_A question for Vic. How hard has it been to extract horsepower from the inline 5, is this an engine that responds easily to mods or has it been a pain to extract the smallest amount of horsepower??? Final question. How much hp do you think this engine can handle without any internals changed? Thanks.










Great question, from what we have seen, this engine has the flow characteristics to develop solid hp. So far, our first two parts (intake and soon-to-be-released header), have hinted that with a little help this is a heavy breather. The challenge is to gently (to maintain driveability and proper operations with OBDs) steer the economy personality it was given towards a sportier one. I would venture to say that using the factory management with a good map, plus the array of parts in the works, we could see 180-200 hp at the fly (160-170 whp)without pushing it too much, just changing well-designed peripherals: manifolds, cams, throttles, etc. your basic bolt-ons for normally aspirated engines. It is a matter of getting there in the most efficient (least $$$) and quickest (developing in a logical order first the parts that would yield the most) ways. but a lot of thinking and testing and scraping is required. i am up to it, and enjoying it. 
Thanks for the patience. vic at evo, see you on sunday at mjm's


----------



## Scratchmaster_J (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

The future sounds very promising. Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (Scratchmaster_J)*

it seems like you people have your stuff together as far as parts in the making...I cant wait for more bolt on parts in the future


----------



## v3ntovolkswag3n (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (geronimo542)*

damn, sign me up.


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (v3ntovolkswag3n)*


_Quote, originally posted by *v3ntovolkswag3n* »_damn, sign me up.

We'll be receiving some units (blue, black, red) here in the next few days.
Several orders need to be filled, and the remaining will probably go within a week or two, so give us a call if you'd like your name on one.
210.DUB.PART (382.7278)


----------



## blackoutjetta (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_
We'll be receiving some units (blue, black, red) here in the next few days.
Several orders need to be filled, and the remaining will probably go within a week or two, so give us a call if you'd like your name on one.
210.DUB.PART (382.7278) 

the actually headers will be available in blue black or red? hmm i dont know if i would go black or red, because i have red accents (cai) in my engine. also what is the final price on this?


----------



## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (blackoutjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackoutjetta* »_
the actually headers will be available in blue black or red? hmm i dont know if i would go black or red, because i have red accents (cai) in my engine. also what is the final price on this?

I believe he means the evoair short rams are coming in blue, black and red now


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dumbassmozart* »_
I believe he means the evoair short rams are coming in blue, black and red now

That would be correct.








Sorry, we've been going back and forth between the Evolution Tuning intakes and their headers. We need to work on our thread clicking skills.


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

On the subject of the header systems:
What we are going to start doing are pre-orders on the header systems for those _genuinely_ interested in them. This will insure two things for those participating in the pre-ordering process.
A) You will be guaranteed to get in on the first production run, as opposed to having to wait on this industry's dreaded backorder process (which is inevitable).
B) You will get in at the introductory price of the header systems (which Vic will be announcing right here in this thread very shortly) instead of paying more for the systems in 13 months from now.
Speak on it, fellas.


----------



## v3ntovolkswag3n (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_
You will get in at the introductory price of the header systems (which Vic will be announcing right here in this thread very shortly) 

Waiting patiently


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (v3ntovolkswag3n)*

Any info on release date


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

you were saying that you were looking for people who were interested in the headers and they could be bought at an introductory price. is this far less of a price than what you could expect to pay when they are released? and any rough idea when they are gonna be available?


----------



## ENRGZR (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: (geronimo542)*

I am really interested. I would like the header, evoair intake, and the TT dual borla cat back system with dual piping. What kind of deal can we work. Free shipping to Ak maybe?


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (akdakota)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geronimo542* »_Any info on release date 

Not yet. Coming soon.









_Quote, originally posted by *geronimo542* »_you were saying that you were looking for people who were interested in the headers and they could be bought at an introductory price. is this far less of a price than what you could expect to pay when they are released? and any rough idea when they are gonna be available?

This is where we are at right now: Victor at Evolution is trying to come up with a dollar amount as pre-order/down payment type program on the header systems. When that number is determined, we will post it here.

_Quote, originally posted by *akdakota* »_I am really interested. I would like the header, evoair intake, and the TT dual borla cat back system with dual piping. What kind of deal can we work. Free shipping to Ak maybe?

When the headers are actually ready to ship and on the shelves here, we are definitely going to put something together as a package deal on the header, the intake, and an exhaust (GReddy and Techtonics). We might even offer a package that comes with software, too.


----------



## ENRGZR (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

cool thanks.


----------



## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (akdakota)*

Anu new info yet?


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (MattWayMK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MattWayMK5* »_Anu new info yet?

This is an update for the A5201 evoheader. We are currently completing the instructions manual photo session. Unfortunately, this is not as simple as it looks, tools need to be identified, text edited in ways it is as clear as possible for the majority, plus the pictures themselves. 
In the meantime, the jigs for production are being drawn and prototyped. 
Eventhough this basically means a few more days/weeks, on the positive note is that everything is going very smooth with no surprises. Everything fits, matches and works per design. And of course, the car feels very strong. Sometimes i flip a coin between driving my E30 M3 with a mod engine or hopping into the Rabbit for some late-model excitement.
We will start a pre-order stage very soon in our website and through selected dealers including MJM. By placing some money down, you will secure one of the first evoheaders while production picks up on these all-hand made all-stainless steel bundle of snakes.








Thanks for the patience. Vic at evo.


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

driving impressions of the prototype?


----------



## racinrabbit12 (Apr 27, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

Thats great news, i cant wait for these things to come out. Props to evolution tuning for sticking with us 2.5'ers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_driving impressions of the prototype?









What can i tell you? Our car has 15,860 flawless and fun miles (the header and intake have been in since 1,500 miles). I designed it, i love it. 60 mph in 2nd gear, very nice pull from almost idle. On rainy days, i take off in second. 3rd gear only for tooling around town with lots of low-end torque. The car feels very light, and the sounds are the second best part, specially during hard braking and downshifting into second for a fast 90-degreer. 
I will tell you a story. I recently went to the local VW where i bought it and the salesman took it for a spin. This is way after the release of the 170-hp version. I thought to myself, who best to judge it but the guys who drive them every day of the year. And off he went, back and forth. When he came back, 4 other salesmen came out of nowhere to 'test drive it'. It turned out the first guy called them on his cel while driving. The result, everyone of them came out with a huge smile and lots of compliments about how strong the car pulled from the start. And all this with the factory software setting and 87 gas. Took me 2 hours to leave that place, should have charged them!
I am working on posting a video on youtube of an extended driving session. I just have to plan the time and route for a nice one without drawing attention of your friendly Texas Rangers (our shop is along a US Hwy). 
The only con so far: I want a stronger top-end. But i am working on it







(A5401). See ya, vic at evo.


----------



## chaindrivefive (Apr 5, 2007)

Dyno?


----------



## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

Still no target release date that you can tell us, Vic? I know you can't give us an exact date, but when you say "coming soon" does that mean coming soon as in by the end of this month of September or sometime during the next 2 or 3 months (early fall)?


----------



## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
But i am working on it







(A5401).

which is........?








I still love my intake. keep it up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## p c (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dumbassmozart* »_
which is........?








I still love my intake. keep it up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


CAMS!!!!!!!!! stronger top end gives it away


----------



## VW_tayder (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (p c)*

must see this vid... hurry.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (p c)*


_Quote, originally posted by *p c* »_

CAMS!!!!!!!!! stronger top end gives it away

Yes they do, but remember that we do not like to throw any CELs and OBDII does not particularly like camshafts with top-end profiles that many times mess things up at idle speeds because of the longer durations, increased valve lift and more overlap. Especially on engines with a single throttle. vic at evo.


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_Still no target release date that you can tell us, Vic? I know you can't give us an exact date, but when you say "coming soon" does that mean coming soon as in by the end of this month of September or sometime during the next 2 or 3 months (early fall)?

I hear you V-Dubberl, believe me that judging by how quick the A5301s are selling, i would love to have the rest of the 2.5 engine program evocomponents out already from the business stand point. Unfortunately, things are not as easy and bumps on the road slow things down. One thing is to produce one or two random parts that perform as well as planned, and another is to plan for a quality production of hundreds of them on a steady basis. And all this has to make business sense and deliver as promised without problems. But don't take me wrong, i love this challenge. And my promise to you is that our 2.5s will deliver the most fun any normally aspirated VW has ever given since the water-cooled engines were introduced. This is a great engine.
On the evoheader, I am shooting for a release date of early October. 
I already spoke of a pre-order stage while we get up to speed on the availability. This will happen in the next 2 weeks.
And then, before Thanksgiving I should have a very clear indication of the release date of the next component, the A5401. More on that as things develop. Thanks, vic.


----------



## p c (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
Yes they do, but remember that we do not like to throw any CELs and OBDII does not particularly like camshafts with top-end profiles that many times mess things up at idle speeds because of the longer durations, increased valve lift and more overlap. Especially on engines with a single throttle. vic at evo. 



then surely it's an exhaust?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (p c)*


----------



## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

that or a rocket-assisted take off pod


----------



## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

Any new updates?


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (MattWayMK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MattWayMK5* »_Any new updates?

Not yet, but very soon. Pre-orders are going to be taken soon.


----------



## RINGSROC (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*









Cant wait to see the package options... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (VW_tayder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_tayder* »_must see this vid... hurry.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

OK, here is a brief vid from the weekend of the intake and header working together.








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90GgjeVvaYc
vic at evo


----------



## 860redrabbit (Dec 5, 2006)

very nice i like i like


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

and when can I buy the header?


----------



## vr_vento95 (Nov 26, 2004)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

nice vid! I can't wait til the release of this thing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

Time to get three more jobs to save up for the package


----------



## chaindrivefive (Apr 5, 2007)

I watched this vid about five times.... I watched the video time counter and the speedo in the video. I'm pretty sure the 0-60 time was down to no more than 6.0 sec. Not bad.


----------



## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_and when can I buy the header?









Very soon.


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

perhaps a group buy on the pre-production headers?


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (geronimo542)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geronimo542* »_perhaps a group buy on the pre-production headers?

Evolution tends to like to shy away from the term "Group Buy", but rest assured, as soon as Victor works out the pricing details on the first run of them, we are going to start taking deposits and pre-orders on them, albeit, it will not be a "Group Buy" of any kind. 
Now however, what we _can_ do is put together packages or kits combining the Evoheader with a Techtonics or *NEUSPEED* cat-back exhaust and/or Evo intake.
In fact, let's make it official right now: for those interested in getting in on the first batch of headers, please email us directly at sales(at)mjmautohaus(dot.com) with the subject line "Evo 2.5L Header Pre-Order Depo" and we'll add you to the list. A phone number and email addresss is all we need. Upon getting an exact dollar amount on a deposit on these from Victor at Evo, we will get in touch with you to discuss whether or not you're interested in getting in.


----------



## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

*Re: (geronimo542)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geronimo542* »_perhaps a group buy on the pre-production headers?


I'm in. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VW_tayder (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (rabbit07)*

e-mail sent. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (VW_tayder)*

as soon as I see a dyno to see where the power is made I will be all over this like white on rice


----------



## chaindrivefive (Apr 5, 2007)

have you all considered that you are asking for early sign ups having posted no performance figures or dyno test results? You've been driving the thing around...put it on a dyno!!!


----------



## jetta2pointfive (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: (chaindrivefive)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chaindrivefive* »_have you all considered that you are asking for early sign ups having posted no performance figures or dyno test results? You've been driving the thing around...put it on a dyno!!!

x2


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## studio19sound (Dec 14, 2006)

I'd like to see a dyno too, but they have said this much:
"a strong mid range torque: 157lb/ft @ 3500 and [email protected] at the wheels. At least 150lb/ft available from 2950 to 4950rpm (stock peak is 145lb/ft from 3600 to 3900rpm). These numbers are in combination with the A5301 evoair intake"
so that will give you an idea of what the numbers will look like compared to stock.


----------



## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (studio19sound)*

Dyno sheet FTW! 
Else


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## jh336688 (Aug 27, 2004)

sent email to be on preorder .. hopefully it comes out soon to go with my evoair intake


----------



## v3ntovolkswag3n (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (jh336688)*

Sorry if this has been discussed, but what's the price going to look like?


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (v3ntovolkswag3n)*

Hey guys,
We have received several of your emails in regards to getting in on the pre-order with deposits for the headers and have saved them and added them to the list. Victor at Evolution is just a few days away from working out the details on down payment amounts to get the ball rolling. During a conversation with him yesterday, he mentioned a ballpark figure of roughly anywhere between an $800 to $900 list price. That will be the list (retail) price of the headers. Power Package Combos from MJM combining a cat-back system from Techtonics or NEUSPEED, the Evolution Tuning intakes, and software (from either NEUSPEED or REVO - your choice) will also be available for those wanting to get in on the Evolution header for their 2.5L. 
On the dyno for the header, Victor does indeed have a dyno for the header from their very own Rabbit and will be posting here to discuss the details of the dyno. Understand that with a modification like a header, peak numbers isn't what is to be stressed, but the entire power-band and where the car makes power in real-world driving conditions. We're talking about 2.5L Volkswagens here, not Formula One race cars.


----------



## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

can't wait to see those #'s. It will be nice to get the power package.
will the header be shown at H20?


----------



## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_Hey guys,
We have received several of your emails in regards to getting in on the pre-order with deposits for the headers and have saved them and added them to the list. Victor at Evolution is just a few days away from working out the details on down payment amounts to get the ball rolling. During a conversation with him yesterday, he mentioned a ballpark figure of roughly anywhere between an $800 to $900 list price. That will be the list (retail) price of the headers. Power Package Combos from MJM combining a cat-back system from Techtonics or NEUSPEED, the Evolution Tuning intakes, and [b[software (from either NEUSPEED or REVO - your choice) will also be available for those wanting to get in on the Evolution header for their 2.5L. 
On the dyno for the header, Victor does indeed have a dyno for the header from their very own Rabbit and will be posting here to discuss the details of the dyno. Understand that with a modification like a header, peak numbers isn't what is to be stressed, but the entire power-band and where the car makes power in real-world driving conditions. We're talking about 2.5L Volkswagens here, not Formula One race cars.









I knew neuspeed had one out but you had to take out the ecu , but revo does this mean their about to release theirs?


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_
On the dyno for the header, Victor does indeed have a dyno for the header from their very own Rabbit and will be posting here to discuss the details of the dyno. Understand that with a modification like a header, peak numbers isn't what is to be stressed, but the entire power-band and where the car makes power in real-world driving conditions. We're talking about 2.5L Volkswagens here, not Formula One race cars.









Hey guys, thanks for the interest in the evoheader (#A5201). I have been closely following all the comments on this forum. And I know there are a lot of questions, which is great. The rest of the week and next week will have us prepare the actual product webpage and in it, we will post actual dyno graphs based on our own vehicle. From these curves you should be able to see where the power improvement areas are and recognize the new trends to be exploited as we go along. Bear in mind that the evoheader (and in part, the evoair intake A5301) is only a portion of an overall package being designed to shift the peak points of the engine upwards and further down the rpm range by tuning the breathing in the mid range and top end. Many of these numbers will make more sense when current work on the A5401 gets more advanced. vic at evo.


----------



## jh336688 (Aug 27, 2004)

how much is the down payment to get in on the preorder..?


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_Understand that with a modification like a header, peak numbers isn't what is to be stressed, but the entire power-band and where the car makes power in real-world driving conditions. We're talking about 2.5L Volkswagens here, not Formula One race cars.









just to add to this...
It is the same with chip tuning this motor. Peak numbers are not staggering like on a turbo car, but when looking at the area under the curve it is quite a bump in power.
On a side note where that power is made makes a huge difference in driving dynamics also. On a motor like the na 2.5L there is no point making power past 6krpm on a street car. If there is a healthy bump from 3-5 or even lower would make for a very fun car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
With all that said I can't wait to see the dyno.


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_
On a side note where that power is made makes a huge difference in driving dynamics also. On a motor like the na 2.5L there is no point making power past 6krpm on a street car. If there is a healthy bump from 3-5 or even lower would make for a very fun car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
With all that said I can't wait to see the dyno.









There you go spdfrek, i like the way you put it, plain and simple. 
I am glad there is appreciation on the fact that even a gain of 3-4 lbft all across the range makes a huge difference in the pull. That is what Kelly meant about peak gains vs overall shape of the new torque curve. We tried to show that in our crude youtube mini video, the ease and new rate of acceleration until redlining.







I should have the graphs posted out very soon. vic at evo.


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbit07* »_can't wait to see those #'s. It will be nice to get the power package.
will the header be shown at H20?

Unfortunately, we will not be at H20 this year. I don't think Victor at Evolution will be, either.

_Quote, originally posted by *blackhawk 76* »_
I knew neuspeed had one out but you had to take out the ecu , but revo does this mean their about to release theirs?

With the NEUSPEED software, most 06' cars are flash capable, but we'd need the ECU number to be sure. With REVO, we are indeed REVO dealers, too, but have yet to do a Rabbit 2.5L with their software, so I'm not 100% sure. Juan, our software tech, would be the one to ask. I will get with him on this and find out.

_Quote, originally posted by *jh336688* »_how much is the down payment to get in on the preorder..?

We don't have an exact dollar amount right now, but Victor at Evolution is currently working on that. I promise, as soon as we have a solid figure, you guys will know.








*UPDATE:* We got some news today that GHL, Evolution, and MJM are going to be working closely together with the Evo header and GHL cat-back system on the 2.5L cars. After speaking with Jeff at GHL at length today, they are excited about getting in on this. We should have a system here shortly and will be putting the Evolution Tuning project Rabbit up on a dyno with the cat-back system from GHL to see what kind of numbers we can yield. As GHL distributors here in South Texas, we'll probably offer some kind of group buy or package program with both systems.
Stay tuned. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

Are you going with GHL because the smaller piping size? Keep the power lower in the rpm range?


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_Are you going with GHL because the smaller piping size? Keep the power lower in the rpm range?

That is not the reason for going with GHL, no.
GHL is sending us one of their cat-back systems to dyno with the header.


----------



## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

when will we kno the final prices of the packages or just the header or any other combos with it?


----------



## BlueMKV (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_Hey guys,
We have received several of your emails in regards to getting in on the pre-order with deposits for the headers and have saved them and added them to the list. Victor at Evolution is just a few days away from working out the details on down payment amounts to get the ball rolling. During a conversation with him yesterday, he mentioned a ballpark figure of roughly anywhere between an $800 to $900 list price. That will be the list (retail) price of the headers. Power Package Combos from MJM combining a cat-back system from Techtonics or NEUSPEED, the Evolution Tuning intakes, and software (from either NEUSPEED or REVO - your choice) will also be available for those wanting to get in on the Evolution header for their 2.5L. 
On the dyno for the header, Victor does indeed have a dyno for the header from their very own Rabbit and will be posting here to discuss the details of the dyno. Understand that with a modification like a header, peak numbers isn't what is to be stressed, but the entire power-band and where the car makes power in real-world driving conditions. *We're talking about 2.5L Volkswagens here, not Formula One race cars.*










Ahhh...I don't know about your rabbits, but my 2.5 engine is half a Lambo engine....that makes it 1/2 a supercar in my book!!








Can't wait for the dyno on these headers!


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

Great work EVO http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif all it requires is a Unitronic Chipped Tune to compliment it


----------



## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Sooo whens this thing being released to VW Vortexers again? 
bump for an update


----------



## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Great work EVO http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif all it requires is a Unitronic Chipped Tune to compliment it









In coordination with Victor at Evolution, we'll be launching a 2.5L performance program where customers can choose different "Performance Kits" featuring the Evo intake with Evo header system, a cat-back exhaust, and software flash. Customers will have the option to choose which mods to go with first dependent upon budget and manufacturer preference. If Unitronic wants to get on-board with us, we'd have no problem offering the line to our South and Central Texas customers. We understand that Unitronic doesn't actually have a 'shop' here in Texas offering the line. We're willing to help out any way we can. As of now, we were going to offer the packages with REVO software.

_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_Sooo whens this thing being released to VW Vortexers again? 
bump for an update

Spoke to Victor today about this. At this point, I believe he has the $$$ amount (down payment) that is going to need to be put down to get customers in the door with the header system. Right now it's just a matter of determining the time frame at which customers would have to wait.
In other words, Vic at Evolution is well aware of the "Is my stuff ready? When is it going to ship? How much longer? When can I expect this, it's been two weeks already!" emails and phone calls that are oh-so-common in our industry.








Victor is doing his best to try to prevent this, so he's working out the details as best as possible on coming up with an 'accurate' and 'realistic' ETA on production runs.
Trust us, fellas......as soon as we have an answer, YOU GUYS HERE ON THE VORTEX WILL BE THE FIRST TO KNOW ABOUT IT! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

I know this has already been asked but how much longer?


----------



## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

bump, price for the intro ones coming to sale soon?


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (rabbit07)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbit07* »_I know this has already been asked but how much longer?

Thanks for the patience guys. we are starting to receive some of the tooling for the assembly of the headers in production. as you know, the only way to build these, because of the complex shapes, is by hand. So all the wait at this time boils down to establishing a feasible delivery date after the jigs are completed. I do not believe in rushing stuff out to later recall it or issue patch up kits just to make the sale today. As with the intake, unfortunately copied by Neuspeed http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif (a new industry low, considering their 'experience' - which goes to show how much of a successful design the A5301 really is), we plan on having a clean record for the header. Thanks for supporting our original and authentic evolution tuning products, designed, built and tested from the ground up. Say no to copycats. vic at evo


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## RINGSROC (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

Man...Neuspeed http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
So i wont buy anything Neuspeed just for you guys!


_Modified by 07JettaMK5 at 11:18 PM 10-8-2007_


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_As with the intake, unfortunately copied by Neuspeed http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif (a new industry low, ......................Say no to copycats. vic at evo


http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_ We should have a system here shortly and will be putting the Evolution Tuning project Rabbit up on a dyno with the cat-back system from GHL to see what kind of numbers we can yield.

any word on this dyno yet? im already sold on the header...it just might sell me sooner rather than later (which is when i plan to buy it as of now).


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (travis3265)*


_Quote, originally posted by *travis3265* »_
any word on this dyno yet? im already sold on the header...it just might sell me sooner rather than later (which is when i plan to buy it as of now).

As soon as it's available, you guys will be the first to know.


----------



## TheGermanExperience (Dec 11, 2002)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

does anybody have a pic of the stock 2.5 exhaust manifold off the car? I remember seeing one but I can't find it anymore. It is funny as heck it is just a funnel with 5 tubes inside and it looks so restrictive. I think it would help sell the header that's how low-tech it looks...


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_I am glad there is appreciation on the fact that even a gain of 3-4 lbft all across the range makes a huge difference in the pull. ....................... I should have the graphs posted out very soon. vic at evo.
























bump


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_








bump

Thanks for the patience. Finally, this weekend i had some time to write the evoheader page. 
Please find below a link to it although direct links from the site have not yet been set up.
http://www.evolutiontuning.com...V.htm
There is good information that hopefully will lead you to believe that this is not just another header. A lot of thinking, testing and scraping went into this one to get the type of power gains we got. Let alone the fact that it actually can be fitted over the head without having to remove it. The available room between the head and the lower edge of the windshield is not exactly generous. installation is not a picnic although hand tools (good ones) are all it takes. it can get complicated for some, which is OK. The main problem is that you are working blind, you cannot see a thing because everything is behind the head, so for those with eyes in their fingers this will be a fun project. Professional install may be the what to go for some owners.
I will be glad to answer any question or comment that you may have. 
One thing i want to point out is the 'large OD' tubes used, typical V8 territory and considered too large for 500cc or so cylinders. We got around that by laying out the tubes so that when firing, the gases create a natural swirl-like discharge that maintained a high gas velocity (you will never see flushing the toilet the same way again







). Torque starts building at early rpms and makes a stellar finish at the redline. Even for a car with economy gears, the Rabbit seems to come alive and has strong pull at any point. 
Thanks for your support, vic at evo


----------



## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

Very exciting news, Vic. But I followed the link you provided to the page on your website and it says there is an option to "prepay" for these headers. Alot of us have already emailed MJM Autohaus to be placed on their waiting list. Should we just say forget it and click on the "Add to cart" option and prepay on your website right now? Because I'd hate to sit back assuming I'm already on some kind of waiting list and have the first batch get sold out and not get mine. What should I, and those of us who got on MJM's waiting list do at this point?


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_Very exciting news, Vic. But I followed the link you provided to the page on your website and it says there is an option to "prepay" for these headers. Alot of us have already emailed MJM Autohaus to be placed on their waiting list. Should we just say forget it and click on the "Add to cart" option and prepay on your website right now? Because I'd hate to sit back assuming I'm already on some kind of waiting list and have the first batch get sold out and not get mine. What should I, and those of us who got on MJM's waiting list do at this point?

Sure, that is fine, all orders, whether they come from dealers like MJM or individuals clicking on our site will be treated in the order they come in. I assume that dealers will post orders according to their own listings. So if you are already part of MJMs, no need to do anything. I will contact Kelly this week to get a feel for that list he has been working on and enter it into our system quickly. This is the reason for the waiting period being what is it. To allow enough time to accommodate orders whatever their origin is. MJM is one of our largest customers and certainly their customers are treated like ours.








I am trying to plan this release as 'democratically' as possible so that everyone has access to the part. But as explained before, the nature of this product, hand built, plus assembly time, makes it a challenge. I wish it was as simple as just packing components like with the A5301. Anyway, I hope this answers what those already signed up with MJM wish to know.
I also expect that once production picks up a steady rythm, we can move out of the preorder condition and have headers in stock. This is just a natural learning curve we need to go through for these handcrafted articles.
Let me know if all this makes sense to you or if you have other questions or comments,







vic at evo.


----------



## BuZnEE (Jan 5, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

If you guys end up doing some software please please reprogram the pedal to throttle function. No fancy lags and smoothing out. Make it feel as linear and proportional as possible , like a cable throttle please. Rev Matching and heal & toe have been a real pain with the mk5. Very hard to be consistent with all this complex control system in between that has a mind of its own. Seems when you let off the gas it likes to add a bit of power which makes engine braking not something practical for the rabbit. Also there definitely is a lag, probably for smoother power delivery but if you know what your doing this really gets in the way. Finally there also the pedal to throttle function seems to be sorta reverse exponential. You have lots of sensitivity and power delivery within the first one third of the pedal travel and the next two-thirds are kinda bland. Make this linear too or at least make it function like a cable throttle. Also I've seen the throttle responds differently with traction control enabled and disabled. (This is under a full contact condition... no slip). Maybe under normal conditions you get more throttle lag etc and if you disable its like a sport mode? Just some stuff to investigate. This whole drive by wire stuff is very interesting so you might as well take advantage of whats there with your software. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Don't just emphasize on mapping but check out what other things you can tap into since this thing system integrated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Getting that kind of porportional feel on the pedal would be such a huge plus. I feel that the human factors stuff is more important than those 5-10 hp you would get from the software. Ofcourse both would be nice.








Glad your working on the mk5 rabbit.


















_Modified by BuZnEE at 7:11 PM 10-15-2007_


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (BuZnEE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BuZnEE* »_If you guys end up doing some software please please reprogram the pedal to throttle function. No fancy lags and smoothing out. Make it feel as linear and proportional as possible , like a cable throttle please. Rev Matching and heal & toe have been a real pain with the mk5. Very hard to be consistent with all this complex control system in between that has a mind of its own. Seems when you let off the gas it likes to add a bit of power which makes engine braking not something practical for the rabbit. Also there definitely is a lag, probably for smoother power delivery but if you know what your doing this really gets in the way. Finally there also the pedal to throttle function seems to be sorta reverse exponential. You have lots of sensitivity and power delivery within the first one third of the pedal travel and the next two-thirds are kinda bland. Make this linear too or at least make it function like a cable throttle. Also I've seen the throttle responds differently with traction control enabled and disabled. (This is under a full contact condition... no slip). Maybe under normal conditions you get more throttle lag etc and if you disable its like a sport mode? Just some stuff to investigate. This whole drive by wire stuff is very interesting so you might as well take advantage of whats there with your software. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Don't just emphasize on mapping but check out what other things you can tap into since this thing system integrated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Getting that kind of porportional feel on the pedal would be such a huge plus. I feel that the human factors stuff is more important than those 5-10 hp you would get from the software. Ofcourse both would be nice.








Glad your working on the mk5 rabbit.

















_Modified by BuZnEE at 7:11 PM 10-15-2007_

BuZnEE,
Thanks for the comment. Definitely you have a point there that was identified since we rolled our car out of the dealer. I fully agree that a winning chip is not much about gains as it is in improved drivebilty and the feelings it feeds the driver. And we don't see that with this computer controlled full-surveillance management systems. but then again, it is expected at this level of cars.
With the equipment we have so far in our car (intake + header) the driveability has improved a lot and those flat spots from stock have almost disappered, except for the one at the last degrees of throttle opening where you don't feel any more gains. We are working on the top end right now.
But you are right, the next battle is to rid the engine of that slow needle travel when backing off the gas and that extra spurt of gas that throws off your footwork at the track. Probable emissions related. Blipping the gas becomes a little trickier. Now with the new power curve, you can avoid that spot because all the power is now between 3800 and almost redline and its delivery is more predictable (flatter vs. peaky). Certainly the engine feels less stressed and more free-revving, so around the track is a much better feeling.
We will look later into conditioning the throttle to behave more linearly but it is in the to-do list. Can you envision this engine with individual throttles?







regards, vic at evo.


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_ Can you envision this engine with individual throttles? 

now that would sound wicked http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_
now that would sound wicked http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

x1,111,908,276,398,123,740,192,837,410,928,372,109,387


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (~kInG~)*

are there any dynos of the header with an exhaust? it looks like it adds a bit of breathing room over a large portion of the power curve, but I can't help but think that the stock exhaust is really stifling its true performance


----------



## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_are there any dynos of the header with an exhaust? it looks like it adds a bit of breathing room over a large portion of the power curve, but I can't help but think that the stock exhaust is really stifling its true performance

Well, we tested a system from known mfg in the UK at the same session in early 2007 and after fighting installation for a while, we found only 1 hp gain at top end but we lost 3 lbft in midrange. Very unexpected and not worth the trouble, so it was sent back to CA.
The car sounded OK, except while idling. The 'purring' was just annoying. At this point in my game, i prefer a quiet car that only shows muscle when it has to. The A5301+A5201 combination give that, an otherwise sleeper while cruising, but if you step on it, you will get noticed for sure. And the sound of intake air being swallowed at different rates is music to the ears. It comes from the front of the car where the action is. the wife would never suspect the car is 'souped up'. 
i have the graph if interested in seeing it, let me know.
vic at evo.


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

Just to add to my previous comment is the fact that maybe other cat backs actually can improve performance in a more tangible way. it is a matter of testing them and experimenting with different tubing ODs and muffler combinations.
My feeling at this time is that contrary to the factory air box or the exhaust manifold designs, our cars' original exhaust system is going to be harder to top once these mods are in place. This maybe a different story for stockers getting a catback first. I hope to be wrong, and i would like to team up with a winning cat back because we will be producing lots of more exhaust gases. vic at evo


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## BuZnEE (Jan 5, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
BuZnEE,
Thanks for the comment. Definitely you have a point there that was identified since we rolled our car out of the dealer. I fully agree that a winning chip is not much about gains as it is in improved drivebilty and the feelings it feeds the driver. And we don't see that with this computer controlled full-surveillance management systems. but then again, it is expected at this level of cars.
With the equipment we have so far in our car (intake + header) the driveability has improved a lot and those flat spots from stock have almost disappered, except for the one at the last degrees of throttle opening where you don't feel any more gains. We are working on the top end right now.
But you are right, the next battle is to rid the engine of that slow needle travel when backing off the gas and that extra spurt of gas that throws off your footwork at the track. Probable emissions related. Blipping the gas becomes a little trickier. Now with the new power curve, you can avoid that spot because all the power is now between 3800 and almost redline and its delivery is more predictable (flatter vs. peaky). Certainly the engine feels less stressed and more free-revving, so around the track is a much better feeling.
We will look later into conditioning the throttle to behave more linearly but it is in the to-do list. Can you envision this engine with individual throttles?







regards, vic at evo.

Sounds like you are fixing the driveability problems with engine mods by shifting the torque and power curves to a linear feel? What I meant was maybe you just have to reprogram the pedal function to the throttle body. I don't know too much about whats going on in the control system but thought it might be a quick fix such as set 
throttle lag = 0, expo throttle = 0, 
pretty much go back to safe mode instead of leaving them there and over correcting with engine mods to hopefully balance things out.
Ofcourse I'm exaggerating a little with the possible fixes but hope you get the idea.


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
Well, we tested a system from known mfg in the UK at the same session in early 2007 and after fighting installation for a while, we found only 1 hp gain at top end but we lost 3 lbft in midrange. Very unexpected and not worth the trouble, so it was sent back to CA.
............ 
i have the graph if interested in seeing it, let me know.
vic at evo.
.
yah that is weird, but props to you for doing the testing to see what kind of power can be made with this motor








I actually would like to see it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Also what size exhaust piping was used on the one that dynoed?


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_
yah that is weird, but props to you for doing the testing to see *what kind of power can be made with this motor* 

Ya know I looked at the dyno that Vic provided and I was shocked when I saw the stock motor only made roughly 50whp at 2,000RPM!







There's probably an obvious explanation to this that I'm probably not realizing. The car wasn't dyno'd in first gear so maybe thats the cause for such low hp readings? Anyways, I was happy to see that with the A5301 and the A5301 + A5201 the modified car made consistently at least 10 extra whp over stock throughout the rev band http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I know he said the car was tested using 87 pump octane, which is the reccomended fuel grade for us and our ECU is tuned as such. I've never put anything less than 93 in mine since day 1, but I don't really think our ECU would be smart enough to adjust it's maps for more power to take advantage of the improved octane rating. Although, I could be wrong. Correct me if I am. But that's why I'm really interested in getting my car flashed, but I wanna get my engine breathing mods completed first so I can have my engine program custom tailored to take advantage of my modifications. Too bad I'll have to settle for the GIAC 91 pump octane program and not the 93 oct program. You can get the good stuff down here in Florida, but when me and my gf go back up north to have holidays with her fam the highest you can get up there is only 91 so I have to live with knowing I'm missing out on an extra 3whp or something like that







lol
Anyways, the point I wanted to make is.....Bunzee brought up some good points about the lag in the stock DBW system. But I was under the impression GIAC and/or Unitronic had the capability to reset throttle pedal sensitivity to 100%. My point is there is a partial solution to your problem already available to you.

_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_we tested a system from a known mfg in the UK at the same session in early 2007 and after fighting installation for a while, we found only *1hp gain at top end but we lost 3 lbft in midrange* 

I know what you mean. The car felt worlds faster than stock after I got the A5301 put on. Then I got my exhaust and the whole character of the engine changed. I feel like I did lose a little on the low end. It basically erased any gains that the A5301 put on and it feels just as slouchy as stock on the low end. However, once the needle swings past 2,500 the car pulls really nice and feels waaay faster than the stock car or with the A5301 alone. Hopefully the A5201 will add back the power I lost on the low end as well as improve the already great mid and high(er) range lol I'm just saying what alot of us are thinking but haven't said yet








Oh and MJM needs to wake up and freakin' call those of us who apparently got on their so-called waiting list for the A5201 and confirm our orders like they promised they would. Just a friendly ENORMOUS BUMP Thanks!










_Modified by _V-Dubber_ at 9:10 PM 10-16-2007_


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## geronimo542 (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

I thought that people who "pre-ordered" on vortex got a preproduction price to the header out before it comes out to the public or is that not going to happen or am I an idiot and that was never gonna happen?


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_
Ya know I looked at the dyno that Vic provided and I was shocked when I saw the stock motor only made roughly 50whp at 2,000RPM!







There's probably an obvious explanation to this that I'm probably not realizing. The car wasn't dyno'd in first gear so maybe thats the cause for such low hp readings? Anyways, I was happy to see that with the A5301 and the A5301 + A5201 the modified car made consistently at least 10 extra whp over stock throughout the rev band http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Yes, the car was dyoned in 3rd gear to provide a more accurate reading because the power is delivered at a slower rate. It is also easier on the equipment.
But keepn in mind that not all dynos are the same and it is well documented in the industry that certain brands give more hp that others for the same engine. It is all based on calibrations and the software. 
For example, even European car got more hp out of our A5301 that we did. So, all i am saying is that the important thing is the before and after shapes of the curves.
There are many variables we will never know for sure. In our case, the baseline we recorded was 128whp. A rule of thumb for drivetrain loses (power lost from the crank to the wheels and spent fighting friction, flexing, etc in gearbox, driveshafts, turning and deflection of tires, etc) has been estimated at between 15-20%. In our case, this would put crank hp at somewhere between 128/0.8, or 128/0.85 which is 160-150.6 which kind of matches VWs claim of 150 hp if true.
So either our dyno was short changing us, or VW is underrating the engine actual power. Another interesting point is that none of these engines are blue-printed. they are just production engines and the variations in tolerances must be so to produce an array of great engines all the way to lazy engines. 
This is one of those cases like when the guy who knows the 'exact' time is the one with one watch, the rest (with more than one) will never be sure. So it is the before and after feeling that puts a smile in my face at the end of the day. 

_Quote »_
Hopefully the A5201 will add back the power I lost on the low end as well as improve the already great mid and high(er) range lol I'm just saying what alot of us are thinking but haven't said yet










I have a strong feeling that the catback issue may be related to the actual catalytic. Very soon when the replacements start happening (after 60K by law), this matter will be settled by testing some high flow units, but why wait right?, Ooops. 

_Quote »_
Oh and MJM needs to wake up and freakin' call those of us who apparently got on their so-called waiting list for the A5201 and confirm our orders like they promised they would. Just a friendly ENORMOUS BUMP Thanks!










I will get in touch with Kelly at MJM so he gets the ball rolling.







vic at evo
_Modified by _V-Dubber_ at 9:10 PM 10-16-2007_[/QUOTE]


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (geronimo542)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geronimo542* »_I thought that people who "pre-ordered" on vortex got a preproduction price to the header out before it comes out to the public or is that not going to happen or am I an idiot and that was never gonna happen?

I will contact Kelly to organize this deal. The list exists and will be honored. We will work the numbers with them based on what is possible. Please remember that the cost of stainless steel has never been so unstable in the wrong direction. You guys have even documented it with the catbacks. 
Just keep in mind that the evoheader as opposed to other exhaust components like the catbacks, has about 85 inches of stainless steel tubing (about 7 feet!) which are also tightly bent (adding more cost), that have to be cut and then welded every 5 or so inches. And this after figuring out the layout of each tube, which is not exactly a walk in the park. So I am doing my best to offer a very good deal on a 100% handcrafted piece. From a manufacturing point of view, the catbacks are a piece of cake, CNC bent on a few places plus some mass produced mufflers and no welding, no wonder so many people are making them. But don't take me wrong, I like making these difficult parts.
Compare the cost of a set of headers for say an M5 V10 (2x5cylinders), or a high quality Viper units. The M5s have been reported at a cool 5K, $2, 500 per bank. And believe me, there is no more technology and engineering in those than there is in the A5201, as proven by the gains, because the material is, or should be the same as in our evoheader, top quality SS304 TIG welded. From the metal standpoint, it does not matter if they are thrown in a Ferrari, or in a beatup Yugo. The metal behaves the same. It is how involved the part is and also the market.
If these were BMW or other higher end application, I would not hesitate to ask for $1,200-1,500 per. But I know this market is different in that respect and i knew that before getting in it. I actually enjoy the challenge of producing parts that work for this entry-level cars. All I am saying is that as a small company, we are doing our best to offer the most, as evidenced already with the A5301, becoming a standard for others to emulate, or our evoheatshields (phenolic spacers also copycated long time ago). anyway, I appreciate the support from those keeping score of these things. regards to everyone, vic at evo.


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

Forgive me for coming in here...but I have to agree with Vic. I'm a Design Engineer by trade for a custom Stainless Steel Manufacturer - INOX Industries Inc.. SS is a volatile raw material that keeps on increasing by the day at different rates.
The price of the EVO header is indeed great and I give Vic props to offering it at such a great price...and this does not include the design and ingenuity involved.
As an example: This is a 1.8T Btm mount turbo header I had designed and fabricated in-house.
















Anyone want to guess how much something like this would cost? - $3500 and that's not including my own time.


_Modified by [email protected] at 9:17 AM 10-17-2007_


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

looks good. those are some good numbers. does it work with the factory cat? will that price ever go down?(hehe)


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (rabbit07)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbit07* »_looks good. those are some good numbers. does it work with the factory cat? will that price ever go down?(hehe)

Of course, this is a direct bolt-on part. Pricewise, as explained before, there are many variables out of our control keeping the price where it is, even with our best efforts to offer a good deal without losing our shirts. As other posts have evidenced, making headers is hard, and expensive. Taking any design to the level where the A5201 is in terms of features and uniqueness is exponentially expensive just in labor alone. vic at evo.


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## LA-G60-Corrado (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

Can you put a different flange so you can use it as a turbo manifold? If so is there space?


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (LA-G60-Corrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LA-G60-Corrado* »_Can you put a different flange so you can use it as a turbo manifold? If so is there space?

Good call, LA-G60







. Sure, this setup can be the starting point for a nice turbo manifold. As is, the turbine would sit very low and would very likely be hitting something. Of course, a new tube layout is necessary (along with recalculating the wave-action tuned lengths and diameters for higher EGTs for turbos), plus relocating a re-tooled collector (to match the turbo inlet of your choice) so that there is clearance against the driveshaft. i would also switch to SS321
The bottom line, it is very doable and certainly has been considered since day 1 for the immediate future. vic at evo.


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## testradav (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (~kInG~)*

that thing looks like a work of art
two questions, one general science of engine breathing, one not:
1) why is equal runner lengths important? and equal lengths but different amount or degree of bends is going to throw the formula off, right?
2) will it fit a 2008 2.5 engine? 
that thing looks so good, just want to have it for the looks - any way it can be polished?
thanks


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (testradav)*

I'll attempt to answer this, please guys correct me if I'm wrong. I don't see any reason why this header should not fit the 2008 spec 2.5L since the block is essentially unchanged between model years.
Secondly, the reason for have equal length runners is even out the amount of load on each cylinder. Think of it this way: instead of having one 5-cylinder engine, you have 5 1-cylinder engines. This means each cylinder is doing the same amount of work and therefore your power delivery will be more reliable and consistent.
The reason the runners have a different number and degree of bends is a two-part answer. First of all being how to fit the header into the space allowed in the engine bay. Secondly, the different degree and number of bends is so that the exhaust gas airflow respects our firing order, 1-2-4-5-3. For example, if cylinder one fires first then exhaust gases will be exiting that cylinder sooner than they will exit cylinder 3, right? And it's common knowledge that if you don't have enough backpressure to shove the exhaust gases out of your exhaust, you will consequently lose torque, right? The different degree and number of bends will either speed up or slow down exhaust gases from each cylinder so that they all arrive in the collector at the same time and that there is therefore enough backpressure to push the EGs out and thus maintain your torque. Of course, I didn't design the thing nor am I some kind of automotive mechanical genius either. So I could be completely wrong, and correct me if I am. But I've tried to answer your questions to the best of my ability. Only Vic can one-up me lol Hope I helped!!!!


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (testradav)*


_Quote, originally posted by *testradav* »_that thing looks like a work of art
two questions, one general science of engine breathing, one not:
1) why is equal runner lengths important? and equal lengths but different amount or degree of bends is going to throw the formula off, right?
2) will it fit a 2008 2.5 engine? 
that thing looks so good, just want to have it for the looks - any way it can be polished?
thanks

Thanks for the comments testradav, customers with high-end vehicles (viper, C6, etc.) in our sister company have been quite jealous and impressed not only with the smooth design, no kinks, or strange pointy angles: all centerlines are continuous even if they change planes, but also with the general appearance and also the offering price. These guys are used to blow 2-3K for headers.
Thanks V-dubber for your input, you are right on the money about the concept of splitting the engine into individual one-cylinder engines, where each one has the same 'equipment' (coil, intake and exhaust runners, injector, etc.). Of course, much of this is already standard. So taking advantage of that and pushing it further is the mission.
1) Equal lengths are critical so that a natural resonance using wave-action tuning through specific length and diameter, which is really a mechanical vibration problem, can be induced. This means that at some chosen rpm point, the column of gases will hit a resonance point based on the dimensions of the tube to aid in the scavenge and filling of fresh air. This is more complicated that it sounds but basically, when the exhaust valve opens, a high pressure remains in the cylinder filled with exhaust gases. but because of the position of the piston, this is not very usable work anymore (you cannot get more push down force out it anymore). Think of it when you are riding your bike and imagine that your knees going up and down are your pistons in your '2-piston' engine. your feet going around in circles and the pedals would be the crankshaft. your thighs are the connecting rods. There will be a point when your foot can exert max twisting force on the pedal going down, starting about top dead center for the next 90 degrees or so. After that, because of the position of the piston (feet), coming down, no matter how much push you apply, there won't be much additional work transfered to the crank (vector analyis). well, this is typically the point when the exhaust valve opens, to take advantage of that useless pressure to aid in the scavenging of the cylinder for the next cycle. How much volume the engine is able to clear is half the key to hp. this is what is called volumetric efficiency and this is where compromises begin and why a ferrari engine outperforms a chevy but costs 20 times more. Ideally, all the exhaust is cleared so you would have the full engine displacement to fill up with fresh charge (100% Volumetric efficiency, or VE). This never happens, because there is not enough time. An engine revving at 6000 rpm, is spinning 100 times/sec, and because of the 4 stroke design, each full cycle has to happen in 20 ms (that is milliseconds). further divide that among the 4 different processes (intake, compression, power, exhaust) and you are left roughly, for practical purposes with about 5 milliseconds for each one at that rpm. Not exaclty easy conditions. So, if the exhaust system rids the cylinder of 80% of the gases, ballpark figure for a stock engine, it is a pretty good job. That means the VE is 80%, or 20% of the engine's displacement potential is not available because it remains filled with exhaust gases. These are called residuals. WOT (wide open throttle) condition improves the VE because the system is more efficient: higher velocities past open throttle plate, valves, runners, etc. but we cannot drive all the time at WOT.
Diesels are better here because they do not have to throttle air.
This is where tuning helps tremendously. 
Lets pick up where we were before. Using the high pressure remaining at the cylinder before bottom dead, when the valve opens, it travels as a shock wave at the speed of sound (temp dependent). this wave undergoes an interesting phenomenon when it reaches the end of a tube: it changes sign. keep in mind this is regardless of the flow of exhaust going in one direction: from the high to the lo pressure. So the wave, when it reaches the end of the tube it switches, in this case from a compression wave into an expansion (vacuum) and travels back upstream of the pipe towards the valve. We all have noticed this effect when drinking from a beer mug, the flow of liquid goes into your mouth







but you can see ripples bouning back and forth. these are those waves. catch a wave (not a valley) in time and you will gulp more.
So a tuned system is the one that can catch that expansion wave back precisely before the exhaust valve closes. If timed properly, it will suck out more exhaust gases. So your VE can go from say 80% up to 88%. That is 8% more space for power-producing fresh mixture.
The next question is where to place that wave to be in tune, or how long or short, or big the tube needs to be. For racing of course, this is high up, 8,000+ rpm, which also explains why racing engines sound rough at low speeds and suddenly become harmonious to listen to at the tuned speeds. This is where all the calculations and simulations come into play.
In the street, for our A5201, i picked the mid-range and upper ends obviously. The engine is large enough to have plenty of low end torque, so we can concentrate in the upper range. 
With calculated lengths, the next step was the layout in the available space. and this is the real battle. Without expanding further, each challenge was successfully met: bolt-on fitment by arranging over 80/90 inches of tube in such space.
Plus, laying them so that a swirling effect is achieved based on the firing order. This is very uncommon in the industry. Most header makers feel lucky that their design fits, let alone produce the expected power with features like the toilet bowl effect that flattens the new torque curve.
I was very pleased when dyno testing that virtually no torque had been lost in the low end, and gains started at 2000+.
So, your question about the bends, yes, there would be some flow improvement if the header primaries were straighter, but only marginal. But the cost associated with the required installation would cancel any benefit for practical purposes unless we were racing and had a big sponsor footing the bill. The cat would need to be relocated along with the O2 sensor (extending harnesses, etc.). The shock waves travel at the same speed as long as the temps remain equivalent, so for me that is the key factor which is consistent by the dyno results.
2) The A5201 is designed for all 2.5 engines. So, yes, it works on an 08.
We will be looking into offering some finish options, including polish as we go along.
Cheers everyone,


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

hey vic my order will be going in once i get my holiday pay (around the 2nd week of Dec), just wanted to know if you offer and type of thermal shielding (wrap or ceramic coating) for this header. I know it would obviously make it cost more but i was curious. Great product and great replies. Thanks for helping the 2.5 guys out with a truely magnificent product. Your a true genius vic....


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## testradav (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (evolutiontuningvic)*

First of all, the quality of the product is backed up by the quality of the service ( with your thorough explanation ) - so big thank you for taking the time to go into details.
Being an engineer (software) myself for 25+ years, the job has trained me to look for ways to make things more efficient and solve problems. If I read and understand the explanation correctly, the main problem is that to empty out the cylinder of all exhaust gases cannot happen because of speed dynamics of the engine valve train and the amount of time (5 milliseconds) the exhaust valves are opened and the wave frequencies created by the sudden open of the exhaust valves (pushing exhaust gas suddenly). 
Would a device like a reverse supercharger make any sense on the exhaust pipes, to create a mechanical vacuum on the exhaust manifold that would essentially suck out the exhaust gases out of the cylinder? Could coin some cool names like anti-turbo or superdecharger ;-)
Thanks for the explanation again



_Modified by testradav at 10:48 PM 11-1-2007_


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (testradav)*


_Quote, originally posted by *testradav* »_First of all, the quality of the product is backed up by the quality of the service ( with your thorough explanation ) - so big thank you for taking the time to go into details.
Being an engineer (software) myself for 25+ years, the job has trained me to look for ways to make things more efficient and solve problems. If I read and understand the explanation correctly, the main problem is that to empty out the cylinder of all exhaust gases cannot happen because of speed dynamics of the engine valve train and the amount of time (5 milliseconds) the exhaust valves are opened and the wave frequencies created by the sudden open of the exhaust valves (pushing exhaust gas suddenly). 


Thanks for the comments. Efficiency is the name of the game: do more with less, or minimum effort. The challenge with all engines is the balancing act that has to be put together for the gas exchange processes to be optimum with the biggest variable: engine speed.
The conditions to be met are just too many, efficient fuel consumption, low emissions, dirveability under all weather, engine durability, cost, etc.
If we were running engines at specific rpm, then it would be a lot simpler to tune all components to be super efficient at that point. This has been attempted with the variable power transmission concepts where the engine in theory stays at a given rpm (the most fuel efficient) and the gearbox ratio is varied instead. so there would be no gears changing, it would all be a smooth transition from say 13:1 gear ratio (engine rpm vs. tire rpm) to whatever depending on the desired speed (maybe 0.8:1 or so at top speed). But even then, load on the engine (throttle opening) would still be an issue. Diesels are also better at this because of their narrower rpm range which allows for better tuning tailoring.
So eventhough a column of air (or exhaust gas) in the manifold seems almost weightless, there is some momentum and inertia associated with it to make it move or to stop it that cannot be ignored and that can get out of synch, or phased out. Combine that with the limited window of opportunity for each gas process, like the 5ms at 6K rpm, and you can see why we cannot have it all that easy. Either you design for efficiency at low end and midrange, or the top end. Each one requiring different parameters which will not behave well outside their designed operating ranges. The strong low end cars, typically fleet cars will have a quick off-the-line, but soon will run out of air because the air delivery through fixed pipes, camshaft timing, etc starts falling behind and gets limited, or 'out of tune'. The opposite is true for top-end engines. The best example that comes to mind is the S2000, a magnificent engine with one of the highest VE in the history of production engines, very close or a bit beyond 100%. 200+ hp out of 2-liters at around 7500-8000rpm. But don't try to get some instant torque at 3000 when cruising in 5th because there is none. For sports driving, you have to be within the power window (4-7K rpm).
Technology has closed the gap somewhat recently with variable-geometry manifolds among other techniques to make the engine more flexible and easier to adapt to different conditions. They work, but they are expensive and found only on high-end cars until recently.

_Quote »_
Would a device like a reverse supercharger make any sense on the exhaust pipes, to create a mechanical vacuum on the exhaust manifold that would essentially suck out the exhaust gases out of the cylinder? Could coin some cool names like anti-turbo or superdecharger ;-)


Well, it is 'achived' through other means. But we go back to the balancing act. Pulling too much, and you are also sucking through fresh charge when the intake process (overlap period) begins. Have you seen cars spitting fire, like dragsters? Emissions, economy, etc. all go down the pipes needless to say, let alone melting the cat. Too little, and you have a tremendous waste of volume (any wasteful pushrod V8) with high percentage of residuals.
There are more gentle and effective ways to achieve this such as 4- or 5-valve per cyl. engines where flow is not compromised and there is a larger area to evacuate, or the variable timing like the VANOS on BMW that adjusts the cams to antipate the events at higher rpm, like moving the intake column of air to match the valve opening. The whole trick is to give the engine what it specifically needs at each point on the operating range so the max amount of energy is extracted from the fuel being burned. This reduces stress, wear, lowers emissions and consumption and gives us power to play with.

_Quote »_
Thanks for the explanation again


Anyway, very very briefly that is the challenge of properly tuning an engine. With the evolution tuing engine program, we are asking the engine to do some additional tricks for us through revised parts that do not have any negative impact in its overall every-day performance. And it is a lot of fun seeing it react to the changes (for the positive so far).
I enjoyed the exchange testradav, maybe you can help us design software for servos and digital interfaced controllers to create some serious variable geometry stuff. Cheers







vic at evo.


_Modified by testradav at 10:48 PM 11-1-2007_[/QUOTE]


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Bump...did anyone who pre-ordered get there header yet? Just trying to get some customer reactions.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*

Hell no dude! I said to hell with waiting for MJM to come around and do something and just went and used the preorder option on Evo's website. Holy crap $922 total








Oh yeah and I totally misunderstood the meaning of your post until after I finished the above paragraph. Oh well I'll leave it b/c maybe it will make you chuckle! I also would like to know if anyone who used the preorder option on Evo's website got theirs yet, how easy/difficult installation was, and if anyone on MJM's waiting list ever heard anything or if you're still waiting for a call or basically did what I did and said screw it and went on Evo's site.


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

is there any info for the install of the header? is it easy to install?


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (rabbit07)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbit07* »_is there any info for the install of the header? is it easy to install?

Thanks for the question rabbit07.
It is hard to answer that and i am saying this because there is no way to know the mechanical skills of everyone looking into installing this product. For sure, it is more complicated than say the evoair intake. 
For example, we have received a few (certainly less than expected) calls from people having installation problems with the A5301. And based on some of their descriptions, we realize some people may be tackling an install for the first time, which is fine. We all had to start somewhere at some point in our lives. Our feel is that in most cases, we have been able to guide them into a successful installation.
However, the A5201 header is a different ballgame certainly not designed for the entry-level enthusiast. The installation is in essence very simple, remove the old manifold and drop in the new one. But to do that, and because of the limited sight available, and the reduced space, some non-ordinary hand tools are required such as short wrenches, flexible drivers, etc. But the most important thing maybe a standard mechanic's arm and hands that can flex and turn, plus fingers with eyes in them. Because you cannot fully see what you need to do because it is blocked by the head and the windshield lower edge.
The illustrated manual is as explicit as it can be and shows every step required for a smooth job. But we still recommend that people who don't feel 100% sure, should really consider taking it to a mechanic with the right tools to avoid a problem.
For people used to tear stuff all day, this is a simple and clean 2-hour job.
I hope this gives you a better idea, if not, shoot back. vic at evo.


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

well, thanks for the answer. that is what I needed to know. I am a mechanic at a dealership so it shouldn't be too hard. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanks.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

yet another bump for more info and to see if anyone got one yet. X-Mas is coming and i hope santa can manage to get one in his sled. Btw Vic i asked before and still am kind of curious if any type of thermal coating/shielding can be ordered along with your product.


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elf911* »_yet another bump for more info and to see if anyone got one yet. X-Mas is coming and i hope santa can manage to get one in his sled. Btw Vic i asked before and still am kind of curious if any type of thermal coating/shielding can be ordered along with your product.

elf911 sorry i did not address that question before. I think this will be added in the near future once we create a regular rythm in terms of production so a few of these headers can be sent to some sort of coating for those who choose so.
The plan is to have the first ones out by the end of the month. This should give some time for people to post comments prior to Christmas. Thanks, vic at evo.


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## PepiMartinez (Oct 16, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evolutiontuningvic* »_
OK, here is a brief vid from the weekend of the intake and header working together.








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90GgjeVvaYc
vic at evo

Wow... very impressive... got to 60 pretty quickly..


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (PepiMartinez)*

So Vic, you said the plan was to get first big batch out to those that had preordered by the end of November. Well, it is now December so when are you going to start shipping these puppies and handing out UPS/FedEX tracking numbers???


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_So Vic, you said the plan was to get first big batch out to those that had preordered by the end of November. Well, it is now December so when are you going to start shipping these puppies and handing out UPS/FedEX tracking numbers???

Yes, I am the first to acknowlegde we are running behind. Not something I like when it happens but that is what it is. The Thanksgiving break delayed some of the machine work required for the completion of the jigs. This work was outsourced because the thicknesses of some of the weld steel plates, 0.500" to 0.750", that requires heavy machinery. I am hoping to receive the last of these plates this week. At that point, we start production as the actual header components have been in for quite a while. Thanks for the patience again, I hope you can see that this is not as simple as it looks and just like with any new project, bumps on the road and glitches here and there will invariably appear no matter how much planning goes into it. Before you know it, they start to roll out. vic at evo.


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

We rather you take your time and pump out an amazing product then rush it. When its out its out


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

any word on an exhaust setup with this mani? I remember reading the one you guys did test with it actually showed a loss in power.


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## RP-1 (Dec 11, 2006)

*Re: (spdfrek)*

bump


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (spdfrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spdfrek* »_any word on an exhaust setup with this mani? I remember reading the one you guys did test with it actually showed a loss in power.









Yes, early in 07 we took advantage of the dyno testing for the A5301 and the A5201 to also test a british catback that starts with a J. Much to our surprise and everyone else, really was the loss of torque at midrange in exchange for 1 or 2 hp gains in the top end and for a very tiny window. My current belief without much further research is that the OEM system works failry well at this power levels. it works for us as is, but i can see people looking for a sporty note in the back wanting to change it. I am very pleased with the sounds coming from the front of the car only.
I will post the graph by next monday for those interested in analyzing it.


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

has anyone received their header yet?


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (rabbit07)*

not yet, when I ordered, 3-4 weeks was lead time which would put me on for Dec 17th about...


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

cool, once you get it let me know how it went installing it.


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (rabbit07)*

I'll post a play by play...


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## rabbit07 (Feb 22, 2007)

anything new?


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (rabbit07)*

Evolution has still not completed the first batch of headers.


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## vicariously13 (Dec 2, 2007)

*Re: (MJM Autohaus)*

so that means that if I purchase this in about 4 weeks from now, 1.14.2008, I won't get it until_____________?


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (vicariously13)*

Granted, this is taking longer than exprected, Vic is a one man show and he has to depend on a number of individuals living up to their promises. Ever been in that situation? Patience, it will be well worth it in the end...


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

Granted there have been some setbacks and delays in production, but come on some of us shelled out the 900 bucks in October and still havent gotten anything for our money. Either, start sending whatever finished pieces you do have now rather than waiting for a large number to be completed and sending them all at one time, or at the very least upgrade those of us who have been waiting since the outset of this 3 months ago to priority next day shipping or something to appease your customers.


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## o6platg2pernt5 (Dec 29, 2006)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

This is why tuners should say f**k the customer, you will get the **** when it comes out and no early dibs!! Dont take their money until the product is out..... If you take the money before the product is out they will dragg your name threw the mudd because you have now given them levarage to say customer service... DON'T TAKE THEIR MONEY FIRST....... YOUR ****ING WORKING YOUR ASS OFF TO TRY AND GET A PRODUCT OUT THE DOOR AND SURE THERE WILL BE ALLOT OF PEOPLE SAYING HEY I'LL PAY NOW... IF THE COMPANY IS NOT LARGE ENOUGH TO SUPPORT BRINGING NEW PRODUCTS OUT QUICKLY, SAY NOOOOOOO ****IN WAIT UNTIL THE **** IS OUT!!!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

Just wondering if ANY of you have received yours yet? 
I keep asking because I'm so frustrated that I've watched the money drain away from my bank account and haven't gotten what I ordered yet. Yeah it says 3-4 week waiting period but its more like 3-4 months. Been waiting since October. What is the stinkin' deal? Where is Vic? Cant take the heat? I plan on calling Evo tomorrow to find out what the heck is going on


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Wow that kind of sucks that the wait is taking so long. Hope the first few people get theirs soon and Vic is able to work the kinks out of the fab process.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

Alright just got off the phone with Vic. Umm, sorry for being the nervous nelly of the group here but while others can remain silent and patient, that's just not me. So I took it upon myself to get us some answers. Vic is such a nice guy and very knowledgeable as well. I was very worried but my confidence in Evo is thankfully restored.
He's under alot of pressure but Evo is working as hard as they can to crank these things out. Its just unfortunate the timing with this thing trying to come out over the holidays which were the cause of some setbacks. And again, all of these things are hand-built and take 6-7 hours of tooling and welding and bending to complete. And none of this can be done by automated machine because the tolerances are so thin, there is no place to grab the header. The stock system is alot easier since it is sheet metal and all the runners are co-planar. But this is obviously not the case with the A5201.
The first batch should be ready within the next two weeks and Vic promises he wont wait a single day after they're ready; they will ship immediately as soon as they are done. The first batch is enough for EVERYONE who preordered. Those that preordered directly from Evo first, vendors second. But Vic promises everyone will get theirs sometime next month. An announcement will be made here on Vortex when they are ready to ship. You can also call and get your tracking number at that time.
Be prepared for this install because although it is not all that difficult, it sounds scary from what he told me and you've probably noticed you can't see a damn thing back there. Some stuff has to be done above the engine, and some below while the car is on jacks. And the valve covers need to be removed in order to slide the A5201 into position, thus exposing our camshafts. But you'll be fine as long as you cover them so no contaminates get in there.
But rejoice because from what he explained to me and from what you and I have all read both here and on Evo's website, this thing is a work of art. Both in beauty and technology and employs several key features that only more high-end vehicles use as well as some cutting edge design features occupied by the aftermarket's leading performance niches and techniques. So be happy, our wait is almost over!


_Modified by _V-Dubber_ at 2:00 PM 1-30-2008_


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Valve cover removal that sounds like a long fun day above/under the car too bad Evo isn't releasing their cams yet or we would be able to do the swap while we're in there already. Thanks for the update v-dubber its much appreciated.


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

We have not taken a red cent on a pre-order on these. We will, however, be offering FREE shipping and a FREE torque mount on those who are willing to wait until they are done. The ETA has obviously been pushed back a little by Victor, but Evolution Tuning is not the only firm who has been victimized by set backs. It happens to the best of them, too. 
_V-Dubber_ - from what we understand, you are the only person to have pre-ordered, thus why you're the only one complaining about the wait.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

BUMP, its been a week any new updates?


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*

BUMP


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*

No, havent heard anything from Vic.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

well almost two weeks now since the last post and now this post is on the bottom of page 3. Really hope everything is turning out ok with this header i really have my hopes up about putting this baby in this spring. Dubber any word from evo or is vic still posting any updates in this thread? I'm sure he's busy but anything would be nice.
Elf


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*

We're so close Elf! He said theres only 6 headers left to be made in order to fill the preorders and he had to hire 11 welders to finish the job. Or maybe it was 11 headers and 6 welders? Anyways, the last few headers are supposed to be finished very soon. Probably sometime early next week. He said hopefully by Tuesday and then he's gonna call me and let me know by Wednesday and if he doesnt then call him on Thursday to find out whats up. But we're really close now


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Not to repeat my last post but ::cough:: its been about two weeks and we're at the bottom of page 3 again....you get the idea. Any news i've been working like a dog so haven't had a chance to call evo or check the forum recently. Hopefully someone got something by now or are we still painfully waiting for this excellent looking piece of metal? Thanks in advance
Elf


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*

Elf911 & other VW Vortexers,
Evolution Tuning recently moved to a larger facility to better serve its customers. This is good for us because it means Evo will be able to run more efficiently and that its production capacity and resources will increase. This however, as you can imagine, delayed things an extra week. Vic hopes to have things wrapped up by the end of the week. I hate to be a pessimist but I wouldnt put my money on that. I dont wanna keep nagging Vic but I'll see what I can find out and where we're at. He said last week that he just needed to add a little more text to the instruction booklets and the collectors need to be welded on and the O2 bongs attached. From there its just a matter of getting everything boxed and shipped.
**teaser update
Evolution Tuning is by no means finished with the 2.5 or content to sit idly and let the aftermarket community pass it by. They are hard at work and expect to release two more parts for the 2.5 by the end of the year. The first we should get a look at and some solid data on by this summer. Don't wanna say what it is, but trust me its enough to get you salivating over. You definitely want this next release...


_Modified by _V-Dubber_ at 1:38 AM 3-12-2008_


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

Patience is a virtue.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Update: The headers left two days ago. Mine is set to arrive tomorrow, March 13th. I can't wait!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

Got mine today, Thursday! Serial number 1! Unforunately I also have to work the next 5 days so I won't get a chance to put it on until next Wednesday so I'll let you know how it is then otherwise if someone gets theirs on before me I'd be happy to read about it.


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## CRUIZ2007 (Nov 16, 2007)

That's so awesome


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: (CRUIZ2007)*

Our stock order of the headers are scheduled to arrive here shortly. We're be offering FREE SHIPPING on all sets, along with additional discounts when ordered with a cat-back system. IM us for details.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

does that mean if you didn't pre-order you still have units in stock now ready to be shipped? If so my order is going in once you guys get back from the Easter break. thanks
Elf


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

So, is it on yet?? anxiously awaiting mine!!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

Ok it's finally in. First the good. Car is much, much faster and the butt dyno certainly likes the A5201. But the best part is not the added power, it's the sound the car makes. If this is the only engine breathing mod you're doing, it probably won't be as dramatic as mine. But I already have the Evoair intake, chopped TT exhaust and NST pulley (which also made the car louder, believe it or not). The car went from being just obnoxiously loud to just ridiculous. Double downshifting in Tiptronic mode results in a very loud bark when the downshift rev matching kicks in. When taking your foot off the gas and letting revs go down the things has a DEEP growl and backfires like a b*tch!!! Also alot of you with GHL or TT may have noticed at the end when the revs are almost back to idle coming down, there's that big brrrrruooowwwvvv sound right? Yeah well its really pronounced now. But above 3,000RPMs the entire exhaust note changes from being a low, deep growl to a high-pitched, nasty howl. It does not sound like an economy engine or a ricey Honda. It sounds purebred Autobahn supercar derived (*cough* Lambo Gallardo).
Now for the bad. Don't be fooled into thinking installation is going to be as easy as installing your intake was. You will need very specific tools and YES you need ALL of them or you will not be able to do this install. Trust me, I started, got stuck, had to reassemble everything and get another tool, start again twice! You need a floor jack, jack stands, Torx T30 socket/driver, 22mm oxygen sensor removal tool (basically a 22mm hex head socket with a cutout), 17mm socket or wrench, 12mm standard or offset wrenches, 10mm hex head 3/8" drive socket, flashlight, mirror, rachet and alot of patience.
I finally had to get it professionally installed after trying and getting stuck twice. I was tired of starting and not having the right tools, reassembling everything, getting another tool, and repeating my mistake. I gave up and had VW do it actually. Make sure you're not as boneheaded as me and get all the tools you need BEFORE attempting. And yes you will need everything I listed.
Its a good thing I handed it over to VW because the clearance between the EGR tube and the header had too small of clearance and even though it could be reinstalled, it was touching or too close to the header and had to be modified. They had to raise it up and modify it so that it would clear the header. You need a shop to do this or you can just live with them being extremely close to touching. The O2 sensor was reinstalled otherwise there would be a big hole in my collector but the wiring was not reconnected and zip tied out of the way. The car is still capable of running like this and does not throw a CEL and runs perfectly normal without the connection. The reason it was moved out of harms way was because since the A5201 does not reuse the stock head shield, it generates a horrendous amount of underhood heat. It would've fried my wire and in fact I'm going to have to buy thermal insulation to wrap nearby wiring and to further reinforce the firewall heat proofing.
My work is 7.6 miles from my house and it takes me approximately 12 minutes to drive home. By the time I got this thing home from work today on my 12 minute <8mile drive, you could smell the scent of heat and what smelt like burning. Popped the hood to check on things and was blasted by a facefull of superheated air. Luckily everything looked ok. I just hope to never have to drive very far in this thing.
Yeah its expensive, yeah installation is difficult, and yeah it generates dangerous amounts of radiating underhood heat, but you will have to much fun with this thing you wont even care. The stock header probably reaches the same EGTs but has that heatshield in place to block them from radiating out too much, its just that the A5201 lacks the heatshield so all the heat is escaping into the engine bay. Its not reccomended to run the stock intake or reuse your engine cover because the engine cover will get cooked, and you cant use your stock intake without the engine cover anyway so its a very good idea to already have an intake on your 2.5 BEFORE getting this. I'm a little worried about EGTs, but I'm sure everything will be fine and I'm having so much fun with this thing, its the last thing I think about when the engine hits 3,500RPMs, hauls the mail and sounds incredible. The experience is indescribable, you just have to get this for yourself and see


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## husm (Sep 4, 2006)

nice....sounds like something i need to buy lol


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## david8814 (Aug 14, 2007)

It might be worth going and getting your headers ceramicoated... That would help with the heat problem a bit.


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

Thanks for the info, still waiting for mine...I am having a local vw tuner install mine have a new downpipe with 200 cell metal cat made for it. Maybe hood vents will help, what size is your exhaust system?


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

That sounds awesome! I've been waiting eagerly to hear some feedback on the header. Are you going to get your rabbid rabbit dynoed? I'm sure we are all thinking the same thing...how close are you to 200hp?








Is there not enough room for a heatshield to prevent your car from going up in smoke? What's up with the heat Evolution Tuning?








This thread is worthless without a video/audio clip!!!







to you brotha!


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*

Props for N/A tuning. The header is shipping Vic, so now you have to tell us what the next big product is


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

Oops my bad, the O2 sensor was plugged in the whole time, just the wiring was routed around the firewall rather than across that bracket on the back of the block. You can't reuse the heat shield because the runners take up too much space and wont let it fit over it and bolt into place. I'll try to get pics soon. Sorry, I know those would've really helped to give you a visual of what I'm talking about but I've been having alot of problems at home so its hard to get around to it.
I really wouldnt wanna go turbo now because doing that would send my EGTs through the roof and I'm already concerned about heat. Is the smell of heat and burning a bad thing? Nothing is literally burning up because all the wiring looks ok, its just that smell of "heat" ya know? 200whp would be nice but I'm more interested in seeing max torque. It really gets up and goes now although when you are on the gas, the car is ridiculously loud. My mpg is actually pretty good considering I can't stay off the gas. I was actually surprised the Evoair header feels like it weighs half of what the stock header feels like. You'll def be impressed by how gorgeous it is to see the A5201 closeup and then be doubly impressed by how light it feels in your hand. But then I held the stock header and I was like omg! Same deal with the NST pulley. It weighs 1lb 4oz which is basically nothing. Now hold your stock pulley in your hands and its like holy crap that thing weighs a ton. I dunno about getting dyno'd but I may get the car weighed just to see where I'm at because the Evoair intake weighs approx 3lbs and the stock setup including engine cover is like 10-15, the TT exhaust is way lighter than stock because the single Borla muffler is the size of a small toaster rather than two gigantic mufflers and straight pipes instead of resonators, the Evoair header feels like it weighs half that of the stock exhaust manifold, and the NST pulley is way lighter than the stock crank pulley. Plus my interior is non-existent. At the local dump, people who bring in large amounts of yard waste are charged to dump lawn debris based on weight since theres no way you can count and measure branches. They way they do it is have your vehicle stopped on a marked spot on the ground that measures the vehicles weight, then you dump, they measure you on the way out and the difference is obviously the weight of what you dumped, and they charge you based on that. I wanna see if I give em ten bucks or something they'll just weigh me lol
I think within the next two weeks or so I'm gonna get the Neuspeed 25mm rear sway bar and set that thing to max setting. You guys are gonna be pleased to hear whats coming next from Evolution Tuning. I dont wanna say what it is or how it works, but I can say as much as we've all been drooling since October waiting for the A5201, you'll be just as excited about this next release. Vic says he should have something solid to show by early to mid summer and a release date of late summer or early fall should still be feasible. No word yet on pricing, or preordering, or if there will be a Vortex group buy in discount. Evolution Tuning T-shirts will be a topic of consideration next month. Call and talk to Vic and maybe he'll tell you more. Just dont spill all the beans about your findings and keep it discreat like I have, please.


_Modified by _V-Dubber_ at 3:02 AM 3-29-2008_


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sagerabbit* »_
*This thread is worthless without a video/audio clip!!!*


+1!


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (blackhawk 76)*

+2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sagerabbit* »_That sounds awesome! I've been waiting eagerly to hear some feedback on the header. Are you going to get your rabbid rabbit dynoed? I'm sure we are all thinking the same thing...how close are you to 200hp?








Is there not enough room for a heatshield to prevent your car from going up in smoke? What's up with the heat Evolution Tuning?








This thread is worthless without a video/audio clip!!!







to you brotha!

Hey guys, first off, our apologies for taking longer in getting our show together and finally starting to crank those headers out the door. You can rest assured that the delays have simply been about offering an outstanding product crafted by hand and with zero variations.
For those with more years in the tuning hobby, this will be evident the second you lay your eyes in one of these. For the new crowd, all i have to say is that this level is not easily achieved everyday and it takes a lot of precise work. Dont expect this from every tuner because it wont happen.
After reading V-Dubber's post, I agree with most of it but I also need to elaborate further on a couple of issues.
First, the engine is louder at the front simply because it is now breathing better plus hitting a resonance point (that bumps your torque) twice (about 4K and 5.8K). Our program does not take into account any other sound-enhancing equipment such as mufflers or any of that, so I could not comment other than our test car is only equipped with our intake and the header. The engine is stock quiet up to about 1/3 of throttle travel. Beyond that, while hitting the resonance points, it transforms into a very strong, sporty tone and the car starts to pull hard. This is documented in our crude youtube vid (more improved clips to come very soon).
The installation is not easy but it is not hard either. It is simply the nature of the engine bay: you can't see s**t almost. For experienced people, this is a 2-3 hour job, all is included and the manual is pretty self-explanatory. All the tools required are clearly listed in it. If you get cold feet at the beginning, please please seek help and avoid problems. I think V-Dubber was very wise to do this instead of trying to pull this stunt on his own. Nothing wrong with that. I simply want people to love the product for what it makes the car do and not hate it because they could not install it for whatever reason. Hey, I know how to change the oil in my car but i dont like to do it.








On the install, he talks about the EGR tube running close to the header. This is the case and it is not a problem, both carry exhaust gases (at different temps of course) and both are stainless steel. They do not move relative to each other. Again, this is not a problem.
The O2 sensor is relocated to a position that creates more wire slack, so it simply needs to be eliminated. We simply ran a loop around one of the supports and that solved the problem. 
Last thing, the heat. The header of course has no heatshield, so the bay will be slightly hotter. But the header is not creating new heat, please understand that. And the EGTs remain the same because we have not changed either mapping, or cams or anything. Only the geometry of the exhaust tubes. The engine keeps running its standard setting unless you have chipped it. But again, those increases should not pose a concern at all. The car will not go up in smoke. Of course, I am assuming any aftermarket cat backs are not actually creating back pressure, which has happened before and therefore making things run hotter. I could not know because i run the stock exhaust with very good results. 
The smell reported is temporary only and could come from a number of sources, the lubrication used while bending the tubes in the mandrel bender, residue from the TIG welding process, plus any residue from the handling in the installation like greasy hands, etc. As the engine gathers more miles, this smell will go away as these burn off the surface. This is also normal in any header install for any car.
Please remember we have been running our header for 14 months now and close to 32,000 miles.
BTW, there is still a way to go before getting to 200hp, but we are on our way with every new part.
Thanks for your comments, Vic at evo.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Nice my order is going in with MJM tommorow if they have anymore left, cant wait to get this baby in. Vdubber did they have to remove the valve cover to install the header? Btw when will we get a teaser about this new part vdub is talking about vic i cant wait. Amazing work and thank you!
Elf


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elf911* »_Nice my order is going in with MJM tommorow if they have anymore left, cant wait to get this baby in. Vdubber did they have to remove the valve cover to install the header? Btw when will we get a teaser about this new part vdub is talking about vic i cant wait. Amazing work and thank you!
Elf 

Yes, the valve cover needs to be removed so the evoheader can make it past. It beats pulling the engine or dropping the subframe ($$$). there is very limited space between the cowl/firewall edge and the engine. later on we will talk about what is being drafted as the next chapter in the quest for more power.
thanks, vic at evo


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

C'mon Vic, I'm aching to know what the next project is


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## dubhaustuning.com (Feb 28, 2008)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

This header is amazing. It is a true work of art and very well put together. The welds look perfect! One of the best mods for your 2.5L http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90GgjeVvaYc


_Modified by dubhaustuning.com at 10:20 PM 3-30-2008_


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Well my order was just placed with MJM was a little to short on cash to pick up some suspension stuff too so that will wait but the header should be getting shipped out next week! Looks like i'll be under my car soon hopefully the weather brightens up a little over here in NY! I'm hoping the next product will be auto friendly unlike the turbo kits for us poor 6 speed tip people!


_Modified by elf911 at 4:50 PM 3-31-2008_


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

Where are the vids at V-Dubber?


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (blackhawk 76)*

I know my bad dude. Things are just....mmm, bad at home right now. I'll at least try to get you some pics this week so you can see what I'm talking about. Dude, my stock exhaust manifold wasnt all pretty like Vic's in his photos on Evolution Tuning's website. Mine was all warped by metal fatigue that gave it that "burned" look that alot companies apply to their exhaust tips on axle-back muffler kits. I guess thats normal. Anyways, I'll show you what I have. As far as a video goes, my car would not be representative of what the header would sound like because I've done other stuff to the car. Engine idles loud with hood open. I mean exhaust is mostly quiet, just a mild rumbling, but engine has a noticeable mechanical sound with some kind of weird clicking noise. I believe it comes from the removal of the stock engine cover because I never noticed it until its gone. You cant hear the loud engine idling with the hood closed or from within the car, only with hood open. Blah blah blah, anyways, I'll try my best to show you and let you listen in between stuff happening.


_Modified by _V-Dubber_ at 1:46 AM 4-3-2008_


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_ As far as a video goes, my car would not be representative of what the header would sound like because I've done other stuff to the car. 
_Modified by _V-Dubber_ at 1:46 AM 4-3-2008_

Thats a reason why I want to hear yours, Everything you have done, I do too (not the same stuff but same concepts, intake and exhaust) minus the pulley.
But yea take care of your personal needs before you try to satisfy the tex. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

Rec'd my header yesterday, put it on this morning, total time was a little under three hours, including a coffee break and 15 minutes for the Liquid Wrench to work. I don't have a lift, just ramps. The hardest part was installing the middle three nuts under the header. Big mitts don't work well under there. I have an intake and exhaust of my own making, short ram and 2.5" exhaust pipe with a AeroTurbine and Magnaflo. The bunny already seemed quick and responsive, but, after the header install...WOW!!! More power, pulls hard all the way, but much stronger than before , especially in third and fourth. Also throttle response is crisper. Sound is a little louder and more powerful sounding...a deep growl! very nice! Sorry, I have no way to record it. for me is ECU flash, don't know which yet but leaning toward REVO.
Victors instructions are good, just follow them and things will work out! KUDOS VICTOR on such a functional work of art. I'm ready to prepay for the next item! This one was worth the wait! Besides, this is the first day above 50* in months...good luck on your installs!!


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## dubhaustuning.com (Feb 28, 2008)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_ Rec'd my header yesterday, put it on this morning, total time was a little under three hours, including a coffee break and 15 minutes for the Liquid Wrench to work. I don't have a lift, just ramps. The hardest part was installing the middle three nuts under the header. Big mitts don't work well under there. I have an intake and exhaust of my own making, short ram and 2.5" exhaust pipe with a AeroTurbine and Magnaflo. The bunny already seemed quick and responsive, but, after the header install...WOW!!! More power, pulls hard all the way, but much stronger than before , especially in third and fourth. Also throttle response is crisper. Sound is a little louder and more powerful sounding...a deep growl! very nice! Sorry, I have no way to record it. for me is ECU flash, don't know which yet but leaning toward REVO.
Victors instructions are good, just follow them and things will work out! KUDOS VICTOR on such a functional work of art. I'm ready to prepay for the next item! This one was worth the wait! Besides, this is the first day above 50* in months...good luck on your installs!!

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Plain (Jun 14, 2004)

Very nice. Wish I had the $$$ for this.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (dubhaustuning.com)*

some pics of the beast neatly tucked away...


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

Wait till you rev it past 3 grand. OMG!!! I cant see where your routed your O2 sensor wiring; what'd you do with it?


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## EuroShowOff (Jan 29, 2004)

does this come with a "downpipe" or does it connect to the stock plumbing?


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (EuroShowOff)*

The O2 wiring is run in the same position as stock, utilizing the same wire guides, it is not near the header. This does not come with a down pipe, connects directly to the stock downpipe flange. I am fabbing a downpipe for myself with a 200 cell metal substrate cat, expecting a flow increase.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Ah can't wait til mine comes in this tues, i'll be putting it in with the high flow cat, thing should sound pretty sweet with the whole exhaust system done. Vid/Audio to come next weekend if the weather stays nice.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

never got emailed my tracking number from ups and so far two unanswered emails from mjm...hope everything is ok i really want to install this before the show and go on sun at E-town, anybody going to that?


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (elf911)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elf911* »_never got emailed my tracking number from ups and so far two unanswered emails from mjm...hope everything is ok i really want to install this before the show and go on sun at E-town, anybody going to that?

I'm not sure who you are, but one kit went out today (it has to be you). UPS Quantumview automatically sends tracking info the email address you have registered on our site. Please check your spam folder, too.
We have more headers on the way to us, too. Ask about getting a package deal on a header system with exhaust!








As soon as Vic and Evo can make these bad boys fast enough, we'll be stocking half a dozen or so of them.


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## mk4chris (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

do the headers work with the stock engine cover. I was just wondering if there were any heat issues that would come with keeping the stock engine cover with the headers.


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (mk4chris)*

I have not noticed excessive heat, nothing in proximity to the header gets overly hot, the stock engine cover will not be affected. I'm more impressed every time i drive the car. i had someone drive it, it sounds awesome!!


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

By no means am i taking the piss out of this beautiful header, but...
On the dyno provided through the MJM website, the gains of the intake seem to have the biggest effect over the stock setup. Is it just me or does it look like the best bang for buck is getting an intake?







Maybe I'm a little jealous too...
I am certain that the header looks sexy and sounds like a sex panter, but I'm not sure, yet, that the header performance gain would be appreciable enough to justify buying it. I would be interested in getting this almost purely for the sound factor. I guess I'll have to wait and see as more people post their impressions of their new header. I watched the Evolution Tuning video starring the header and intake but I find it hard to gauge sound on those things. Let's see more write-ups!


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## kaptinkangaru (Aug 17, 2006)

^^^ you have to pay to play. easy power comes cheap, after that, things start to get pricey, but such is the nature of N/A tuning.


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sagerabbit* »_By no means am i taking the piss out of this beautiful header, but...
On the dyno provided through the MJM website, the gains of the intake seem to have the biggest effect over the stock setup. Is it just me or does it look like the best bang for buck is getting an intake?







Maybe I'm a little jealous too...
I am certain that the header looks sexy and sounds like a sex panter, but I'm not sure, yet, that the header performance gain would be appreciable enough to justify buying it. I would be interested in getting this almost purely for the sound factor. I guess I'll have to wait and see as more people post their impressions of their new header. I watched the Evolution Tuning video starring the header and intake but I find it hard to gauge sound on those things. Let's see more write-ups!









If you get this header by itself, you wont see as much gains as you would if you have an intake and exhaust already. The header would really compliment a car with intake/exhaust/chip a lot more than if you just had the header. But, yes, an intake is the best bang-for-the-buck mod of this engine.


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (kaptinkangaru)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kaptinkangaru* »_^^^ you have to pay to play. easy power comes cheap, after that, things start to get pricey, but such is the nature of N/A tuning.

Preach it brother kaptinkangaru,
for sure, the best bang for the buck is the evoair intake but once that is done and you want more, it starts getting more complicated. That is just the nature. Extracting more hp after that is not as easy. I hope you guys are not under the impression that N/A tuning is just adding individual gains per component.
The evoheader adds a bit more horsepower at the peak values, but where it excels over the stock setup is that it raises the entire torque curve. So you may be peaking slightly higher but the curve becomes much flatter and at any given point other that peak, you may well be doing 5-8% torque. Simply consider that the stock peak torque spans only 300-400 rpm. with the evoheader, that same value is now close to 2500 rpm wide, and its peak is good for a nice 600 rpm window.
That is what pulls the car very strong over the entire rpm. Cheers everyone







vic at evo.


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

More torque over more RPMs...http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I'm beginning to understand. So the next big thing from Evo, what'll it be? More torque????
Pg 9 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by sagerabbit at 12:08 AM 4-15-2008_


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

CAMS PLZ . omg evo plz make some cams. and the cams need to be made for a 6700 redline


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*

As I went through each step, first an intake: some gains, better sound, smoother power, then exhaust, again, gains and sound, then the header, again, gains, sound and smoother power. The header adds power over a larger range of operation and it feels great! Its not just the hp or tq its the feel of power distributed over the operating range of the engine. And as Vic has stated, this engine's brain seems to learn and the add ons improve with age! You really have to experience all the before and after of the parts in progression to appreciate their individual contributions. The EVO header is an impressive piece of design, engineering, function and execution! Take this from a physicist and engineer. I am so looking forward to Vic's next part that i am willing to pay up front even if it takes a year to get it! I plan to keep this car for a very long time and look forward to making this engine the best it can be, performance wise. I'm sure its at least a five year plan....


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sl33pyb* »_CAMS PLZ . omg evo plz make some cams. and the cams need to be made for a 6700 redline


The word "camshafts" have definitely come from Vic's mouth in conversations with him, but only he can elaborate and confirm if indeed Evolution Tuning wants to go that route with their 2.5L program. Baby steps, fellas...baby steps. Things will be done in cycles and calculated time all become a factor. The intakes and header came out in a 'relatively' quick amount of time. Vic, as you might have imagined, has other slick power-adders up his sleeve, but nothing....especially performance ....can be rushed! Look at how long it took for the headers to hit the streets. Great things take time, and Evolution Tuning has proved to be one of the few, if not the ONLY firm, dedicated to bringing the 2.5L guys proven all-motor performance!


_Modified by [email protected] at 3:23 AM 4-10-2008_


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Jess just got my header in the mail today and i'm loving it! Vic great job smoothing out all the welds in the collector and making one sexy looking product. Thanks guys! Hopefully the rain stays away for the weekend so I can have this baby put in for the show&go at englishtown sun. WOO!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sl33pyb* »_CAMS PLZ . omg evo plz make some cams. and the cams need to be made for a 6700 redline


Dude, cams are already here from a company that posts here right in this very forum. Let me give you some bg.
I was looking to get my car chipped as my next upgrade to take advantage of the better breathing and I originally wanted GIAC but the nearest dealer was in north Orlando, FL (about a 1.5hr drive). So I checked for REVO dealers (my 2nd choice) and found two within 50 miles of me. One in Tampa, FL but another in Sarasota, FL called Fifteen52 (Motorsport). The name sounded familiar for some reason until I suddenly had a moment of clarity and remembered they post right here in this very forum! I had no idea who they were or that they were even that close to me. So this past Thursday, April 10th I drove down there and it was hard to find them. I memorized the steets before and after their shop so I knew when it would be coming up and if I had passed it. I didnt see a big sign then saw the streets that were supposed to be after the shop so I spun around and then I was like ok well this is the only nice building on this whole street so let me pull in here and at least ask for some1 to point me in the rt direction and pulled in drove around back and saw a sh*t load of VWs parked out front and I was like umm I think I found it. One was another candy white Rabbit 2-door exactly like mine. Stock bodied and rims and everything just like mine. So I went in there and met with the guys, Shawn, the coolest nicest dude, drove my bunny around to the back and read my ECU and then he was like are u sure this is 07 because we dont recognize this ECU and REVO's never heard of it. Its 07K blah blah blah some long complicated jumble of #s and letters. So basically REVO had no software for my mystery ECU but they said they'd write me a custom file within 24 hours and Shawn was like "You're really doing the 2.5 community a favor because now if any other 2.5 rolls up wanting REVO software with this ECU, now there is a program out for it." So you guys are all welcome. But obviously that didnt do me any good because they couldnt flash me that day and since REVO would have the file, I could go anywhere to get flashed so to keep me happy and get me to come back they said they'd pay for my gas and give me a break on the price of the software which is awesome. Unfortunately, I havent been back there yet b/c I have to work from Friday (yesterday) to Tuesday of this week. So I prolly wont get a chance to drive all 41 miles down there again till Wednesday of next week, April 16th.
Anyways, let me get more to the point. While I was down there, I was talking it up with all the guys, really nice and had some fantastic VWs down there. For example, a silver 700 WHEEL horsepower twin-turbo R32 and a green MkII GTI with an exhaust louder than God's own roar. So to keep me happy he was like have you ever heard or ridden in a turbo Rabbit? I obviously replied no and he goes "I dont know if you realized this, but that white Rabbit out front is turbo. Let me get the keys." I was like ok http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif So he popped the hood and they had a stage 2 C2 Motorsports turbo kit on this Rabbit. I have a pic of the R32, turbo Rabbit, and the little MkII GTI I'll post here l8r if you guys really wanna see to show I am not bull****ting you. He told me to hop in and I was like "Ok just dont kill me" and he replied "Dont worry, this is actually the slowest car we have. We really just use this to beat on and take customers for rides." lol The thing was super loud and we drove forever until we were finally in the middle nowhere and we take a quick right and there before us is this twisty little snake of a road running through grassland and cow pastures and Shawn procedes to floor the loud pedal. Usually you expect to get sucked back into the seats in a fast car but the nose of the car lifted high off the ground and surged forward with unbelievable ferocity and I was overcome with the feeling of weightlessness. It was like the car was standing still and the earth was rotating underneath us instead of the car driving across the surface of the earth. I mean this thing was insane. He tells me "We're getting this car ready for H20 this year. We're gonna do a little headwork, a mild port and polish, play with the ECU a little and maybe some cams and we're aiming for around 400whp." He started asking me about my car and what my goals were with tuning my car. He kept asking "Have you ever thought about going turbo?" and repeating "Why not???" And we kept talking about the 2.5 while we were driving around forever in this thing and finally he tells me they have this relationship with C2 Motorsports and they already have around 8,000mi on their stage 2 turbo kit. Then he mentions cams.
Shawn says "Well they originally designed this motor to work with a turbo, but the GTI ended up with the 2.0TFSI and then VW said ok how can we detune this thing so it wont compete with our GTI? So they pulled the turbo and they realized they had created a motor that was far stronger than they anticipated and they couldnt have a 200hp Rabbit selling for 15 grand when the 200hp GTI sells for around 10 grand more than that. So they choked the hell out of it and its really amazing what the tuning community has done all within really the past year the aftermarket has exploded and really embraced the 2.5 which isnt such a bad motor itself. And really all everyone's doing is helping the 2.5 to really achieve what it was meant to be. And you can feel it, even with boost the engine really runs out of breath around 5,000RPM. VW shaved the cams [for a shorter duration] on the high end. But cams are coming and we should have them in about a month and a half."
So I said "Oh really? Will that sacrifice any drivability or will it lose power on the low-end...." and he interrupts "No no no no, they're really mild. But again we should have them in about a month and a half [and they should be out this summer]."
He continues, "We're gonna use them in this car but we'd like to see what they can do in an N/A car so we can sort of get a baseline and compare gains." He means, gains will always be more in a blown motor versus an N/A example. So he says, "So if you're still interested, give me a call here in about a month and a half and if you wanna come back down here it'll take about 4 hours to install and we'll let you try the cams for free and you can let us know how they feel."
So holy crap dudes!!! I had my header about 1.5-2 weeks before these headers even shipped out serial number one I might add, I'm getting REVO to write a custom software program specifically for my ECU (so my car is basically the baseline they used), and if I play my cards right hopefully Shawn will hook me up with some prototype camshafts and I will be a test car for C2 next month!!! So dont worry, camshafts from C2 Motorsports are coming this summer! And I cant believe you guys still dont know whats coming next from Evolution Tuning late this summer. Call Vic and ask and I'm sure you'll all have something else to get all excited about and drool over for months just like you all did for the A5201. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by _V-Dubber_ at 2:55 AM 4-13-2008_


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

V-Dubber, you rock! First the stripped interior when lots of people said "why", then the intake/header/exhaust and now some inside beta... You are like our 2.5L spy guy. Good story (I like how you really got more to the point) and fricken awesome inside knowledge.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*

Thanks dude, I'm surprised you remembered that controversial thread from so long ago. Okay here are some pics.
This is that little MkII GTi and the stage 2 C2 Motorsports turbo'd Rabbit by Fifteen52. Ignore the little black strip in that photo, I had to cut myself out of the picture b/c I didnt realize I was in the reflection lol:








And then here's that monster R32:








And then look what drove past me at a high rate of speed on the way down there lol:


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

hoora for headers!!!


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

Vdubber in that bottom pic...







Where's your a pillar? I took my stock airfilter housing (huge) off today to clean the K&N drop in and noticed just how much room there is back there to install the header, but it looks like having to r e a c h underneath it and not being able to see would be tough... Maybe there will be a better DIY in the future. BUMP!


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

and is it hard to install the A pillar again? I need to clean mine


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sagerabbit* »_Vdubber in that bottom pic...







Where's your a pillar? I took my stock airfilter housing (huge) off today to clean the K&N drop in and noticed just how much room there is back there to install the header, but it looks like having to r e a c h underneath it and not being able to see would be tough... Maybe there will be a better DIY in the future. BUMP!









It's probbaly gone becasue AFAIK, he has stripped his interior completely.


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: (blackhawk 76)*

if nothing, vdubber, you are committed. Just like the strippers up here, you take it all off!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*

You know you have to remove your whole valve cover and EGR tube right? No, it simply snaps back into place. Yes, the only things left inside are the driver's seat and seatbelt, center console, and dashboard minus the stereo head unit. And GDI ur supposed to be looking at that Viper SRT-10! And I plan on reinstalling floor mats in the front, front passenger seat and seatbelt, stereo head unit and all audio equipment, front door panels and maybe the headliner. I miss those mood lights. Kudos to whatsyourbeef for having the guts to do it himself. I gotta call Fifteen52 tom. to see if REVO program is ready so I can go down there Weds and get flashed finally. If so I can tell you one thing: the drive back home will take alot less time than the drive down there! Has no one called and talked to Vic yet about Evo's next installment for the 2.5???


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

whomever does call, just don't be that guy who spoils the end of the movie ;-)


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

sorry about the update lack me and my neighbor just got the header in over the weekend just in time for the 10th annual show&go at raceway park. unfortunately i was there for all of 2 hours because of a family situation that needed me back in brooklyn. This thing was fun to put in the only part that really took some time was fitting the header in place because of the small pictures i couldn't quite figure out how to rotate the thing then all of a sudden wham its in and ready to go! Btw my egr tube is sitting on the header itself and is fine, only thing that has me a little concerned is the 02 sensor bracket that mounts off the head is getting sizzling hot with the o2 sensor on it and i can already see visible fatigue in the plastic coating of the o2 sensor so ill figure something out for that. O, and on the way back home from jersey i threw my first cel, system too lean i believe i can post the actually vag-com code later lol. BUT I LOVE THIS HEADER! it sounds great and pulls hard in every gear now


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elf911* »_the only part that really took some time was fitting the header in place because of the small pictures i couldn't quite figure out how to rotate the thing then all of a sudden wham its in and ready to go! 

Congrats elf911, that is the feeling. believe me, it is hard to explain but once you are there with the evoheader pointing down, everything parts and it just drops in place. i know it is not easy but that is the only hassle, one time only. did i mention we had to redesign runners #4 and #5 3 times to be able to clear the cylinder head (even with the valve cover off!). Guaranteed fitting was the real design challenge for this layout. I am glad it went in.

_Quote, originally posted by *elf911* »_only thing that has me a little concerned is the 02 sensor bracket that mounts off the head is getting sizzling hot with the o2 sensor on it and i can already see visible fatigue in the plastic coating of the o2 sensor so ill figure something out for that. 

Please elaborate more on this. What do you mean by the sensor bracket off the head? The o2 sensor does not have any plastic on it precisely because of the harsh conditions. Maybe you mean the wiring. If so, yes, it has to be out of the way otherwise it will get cooked, header or not. But this is at the collector, way away from the head. The best location is simply to cut on the slack from the wire coming from the firewall by looping it in the plastic wire holders and making sure it won't get loose. 

_Quote, originally posted by *elf911* »_BUT I LOVE THIS HEADER! it sounds great and pulls hard in every gear now

That's what i like to hear, enjoy...vic at evo


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

From where the O2 bung is the sensor is fine, even after an hour on the hiway, the sensor wiring is not hot to touch, just a little warm. my wiring uses the oem wire guides which has the [email protected] wiring hugging the firewall. It isn't a problem. Vic, I LOVE this thing!! Every day it gets better. I had the local VW tuner take it for a spin, he was grinnin' ear to ear when he came back, says he is going to buy a rabbit just to have one!!


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## pdi192 (Jul 14, 2004)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

so what's the availability on these things currently? also, is there any way to upload a pdf of the instructions so I can get an idea before I order one?


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (pdi192)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pdi192* »_so what's the availability on these things currently? also, is there any way to upload a pdf of the instructions so I can get an idea before I order one?

We are starting to catch up on demand. The waiting period is being reduced to about 2 weeks or less now. 
I am 'producing' a new clip (with real quality this time) to show what it takes to build one of these suckers, so that you guys take pride on this beautiful piece of art. You will see that the process is perfectly suited for much more exotic applications... Hey, that's an idea.
I will consider the uploading of a pdf. Maybe a brief version. We had some copyright problems some years ago with our phenolic spacers, which is why we avoided distribution of this info so carelessly. Cheers everyone, vic at evo.


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

whats the current price on the header. im sure it was mentioned in the thread already, but 9 pages deep, i dont want to comb through it all, thanks!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (travis3265)*

I believe its still $899.95


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

Got REVO installed today, what a difference! with the upgrades to intake, header and exhaust it is definitely an improvement, particularly revving to 6500rpm...wow. there is still a bottleneck in the system however, the downpipe is 2.25'. I'll be putting a new pipe, 2.5" and metal cat on this weekend, then schedule a dyno run.... it gets better every day!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

Sweet dude! I got REVO'd today as well at Fifteen52 in Sarasota, FL with their 93 pump program. Btw, on behalf of automatic 2.5s everywhere, you are all welcome because REVO finally has software for automatic (Tiptronics) 2.5s because of me! It took an hour and half to read my ECU file last Thursday. Can you believe that? Too much programming for the Tip! REVO didnt build a file until Tuesday of this week and I finally went down there today and only took about 10mins to flash. It was incredibly fast. Then we had to do some test driving and log it with the computer to send data back to REVO so they can fine tune their software for Tiptronic 2.5s.
But it made a huge difference. BTW throttle sensitivity is set to 8 (out of 9 possible) and the most noticeable thing about the car is how responsive the engine is and how easy the car is to drive. VWs are all about driving enjoyment and the MkVs are all a joy but the Rabbit was a pleasure before and now its amazing. I love that car. Very smooth although car is noticeably louder than it was before by a long shot. You know how you listen to loud music for awhile and you kinda get that pressure in your ears after awhile? Thats what it felt like driving the thing 40 miles back home. I had a huge headache and my ears were ringing and the motor was at <2,500RPMs the whole way. The exhaust is simply booming on that car. At the stop light on the way home, it was like almost 4pm and school had just let out and the car was just frickin booming while idling at the stop light and the truck on the right of me a white Ford F-150 honked his horn like crazy to get my attention but I couldnt see what he wanted b/c his windows are dark as crap and then there was a read Chevy Aveo with 5 kids piled into it with the windows down all looking at the car. And then behind them was a red Ford Explorer with the rear windows down filled with chics and I'm sitting minding my own business and I hear a cat call. "Weet weew!" I look over and the thing is stuff with chics looking in my direction. And since I'm first in line at this light I feel obligated to give all three vehicles a good show. I give the car literally only 10% throttle and I'm at 40mph in like 2 seconds and cruising down the road and I look back in my rearview mirror and the other 3 cars havent even crossed the intersection yet and I was like yeah, VW baby! I'm considering going to VW Treffen in Brandenton, FL next Friday. Its a huge southwestern Florida gtg of VWs and Audis and its an open track day at the Brandenton Motorsports Park and you can drag your car too if you want. If anyone else is going to this, let me know and we can ride VW style there!


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## travis3265 (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_Got REVO installed today, what a difference! with the upgrades to intake, header and exhaust it is definitely an improvement, particularly revving to 6500rpm...wow. there is still a bottleneck in the system however, the downpipe is 2.25'. I'll be putting a new pipe, 2.5" and metal cat on this weekend, then schedule a dyno run.... it gets better every day!

im very excited to see this dyno. please follow through, im sure tons of others are awaiting it as well! thank you so much in advance.


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

I'm with travis. Very excited to see the dyno of all those mods put together


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (travis3265)*

As oon as i can get a time, there is only one tuner with a dyno around here and its booked solid weeks in advance, so I'll call today for a slot.. as soon as its done its on here!


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

sorry about the late reply work has been crazy. Vic i was referring the the metal bracket which was holding the extra slack on the o2 sensor in my car. It is held to the head by 1 t30 torx bolt i believe and can get very hot from the header, even though it is about 4-5 inches away. The o2 wire's insulation (rubber?) just seems to be getting extremely hot and fatigued or brittle i guess from the heat. I have no worries right now because my vagcom shows me still getting a signal from sensors i was just curious if there was a better way to route the o2 wires. if you have a pic on the engine bay of your car or anyone else for that matter can i see the way you ran it please. Thanks in advance and thanks again for this header, cant wait to buy what your coming out with next!


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (~kInG~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_I believe its still $899.95

That is correct. We also offer *FREE* shipping and a *FREE* engine torque mount with every purchase.
For those wanting to add a cat-back or another item, we can do even better on the price. IM us for details.
Did I mention, we have those *IN STOCK* as of today? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_
Did I mention, we have those *IN STOCK* as of today? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

In Stcok is always good..., but In Stock and HEAVILY discounted is more my language








Hope to pick this up soon or over summer.


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (blackhawk 76)*

So, Ive installed a 2.5" downpipe with hiflow cat (Supreme metalCat) just disconnected the O2 sensors from the OEM cat for now, all I can say is Holy S...!! Feel the power!! HEAR the roar!! I'm in process of installing a water/methanol injection system, did a homemade MAF signal pump control








this works off the MAF sensor output (0-5 volts) to control the water injection pressure/amount. Installed the injector nozzle just in front of the throttle body...pics will follow later dyno run scheduled at the end of the week!


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (whatsyourbeef)*

This is what mine installation looks like, mounted in a tupperware box is the controller, a relay , input from the MAF sensor and a potentiometer for selecting a vacuum level as a start point.








There are several places where you can purchase the plan and circuit board. allthe parts are available at RadioShack...


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (whatsyourbeef)*

Ok guys, it's been a few weeks and a couple of you have this installed. I just have one question for you.. Where the hell are the sound clips??














C'mon and give me some motivation to go out and make the cash to buy this thing (work for tips only).


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (blackhawk 76)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackhawk 76* »_Ok guys, it's been a few weeks and a couple of you have this installed. I just have one question for you.. Where the hell are the sound clips??














C'mon and give me some motivation to go out and make the cash to buy this thing (work for tips only).

Vic has posted many, many sound clips.


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: EVOLUTION TUNING Stainless 5 - 1 header!!!! (MJM Autohaus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MJM Autohaus* »_
Vic has posted many, many sound clips.

I know, I want some more though.







th emore the marry-er right?


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

yeah sorry about the lack of audio/video all i have is a digital camera that can take videos but the quality is garbage. Also work has been hell recently with the pope being in town and all this other public/political nonsense. I'll try to post up some stuff asap especially since we are having some nice weather around here lately.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

Oh and one other thing maybe someone here can help or can tell me where i should post this. My CEL was related to the infamous system too lean code, i did search and have checked all the intake connections which are properly sealed but what i find strange is that my short term fuel trim is about -8.0% and my long term fuel trim is usually around +12.0% any idea as to what it could be besides the intake? Plugs are new did them with the header since i was there anyway and this is the first time i'm getting it, which was on my way back from englishtown cruising on the highway.


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

well with a full exhaust system like you have and an intake, I would suspect the engine to run a bit lean. I can only see a chip fixing that with these mods you have. 
PS. i'd really love to hear your car because we'd have the same setup, minus the intake, I have Carbonio, but the rest would be the same.


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## flint2.5jetta (May 2, 2008)

Help. I got my headers and just got them back from being coated. I was looking thru the instructions and couldn't find the torque specs for the the install. Anyone know what they are?????


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (flint2.5jetta)*

OEM spec for exhaust manifold is 25Nm


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## flint2.5jetta (May 2, 2008)

Thank you for your help


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (flint2.5jetta)*

Hey guys, sorry for the delay in getting back on here. Stuff at home has gotten much, much worse instead of better. But I've got about 5 mins to drone on here so why not. I've talked with whatsyourbeef about this a little and my friend at work who just so happens to be Hondaphile (don't tell anyone) but I wanted input from the rest of you.
Now as you are aware, our cars are OBD-II compliant, so they have a post cat O2 sensor which the ECU compares to readings from the pre-cat O2 sensor that resides in the header to figure out whether the cat is functioning properly. So far, we've been addressing the basics to engine tuning which is opening up the engine so it can breath better. Intakes, headers, exhausts it's all good. But to really open up airflow and to finish work on the exhaust side of the engine, we need a downpipe. Whatsyourbeef I know has been working on a high-flow catalyst but I was thinking of something more extreme: a test pipe. Basically, I was thinking about a 2.25" downpipe to replace the looong stock piece and delete the cat. 2.25" because thats the size of the diameter of the exhaust exit in the header so moving to 2.5" wouldnt really do anything anyway. Basically it would be a carbon copy of the stock downpipe. Just a small flange hooking up to the Evo header, straight pipe instead of the flex pipe, a 45 degree bend, and then more straight pipe with no cat and then it just simply attaches to the rest of the exhaust with that weird double clamp thing. If we could do this, those of us that are flashed could run ALOT more timing and fuel since all that extra exhaust gas now has somewhere to go.
Of course there are drawbacks, if the new downpipe is not drilled then it cant accept the rear O2 sensor. So what to do with it? Well, we can attach the wiring to the underside of the car and zip tie it out of the way. But whatsyourbeef informs me our O2 sensor is heated to the tune of several hundred degrees. Whether this is true or not, idk. But even if it isnt true, you dont want it to sample air under the car b/c it would get fouled readings. For example, it would read nothing when the car is stationary and then all of a sudden huge airflow when the car reaches highway speeds causing the ECU to scratch its head. Not good. If the O2 sensor is heated, I dont want some superheated electrode dangling from my undercarriage. So what to do? Well you can disconnect it so there is no circuit, so there wont be a fireball under your car and there are no anomolous readings to foul your ECU. But since the ECU wont be reading anything, it will throw a CEL but it wont detune itself or default into a 'safe' running mode to hamper performance.
If you do drill your test pipe, if you stick the O2 sensor as-is back into your exhaust stream it will easily detect the thick black smoke coming out of your tailpipe. Whoops. Thats not good because the ECU will throw a CEL and default into a 'safe' running mode and detune its performance, the opposite of what we're trying to achieve. O2 simulators are unreliable b/c they dont always work. The only other option is to use spark plug anti-foulers. A trick I first learned about here and later from the Hondaphiles and Subie tuners. Check it out, you may have already heard about this trick. http://forums.evolutionm.net/s...unt=2 or http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1251924

So what do you guys think is the best option for someone who wants to try this? Dont get on here and preach that it's illegal and a stupid idea to be tampering with emissions regulations. This is obviously for track events or car shows only. But to make this work without the ECU defaulting to 'safe' mode or the car throwing a CEL, whats the best option?


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

If you are going to eliminate the (2) after header O2 sensors, you will need to disconnect them from the wiring harness, that is, unplug them. the connectors are under the right/passenger side of the car, you will need to remove the plastic underbody trim panel. it has ten plastic 10mm nuts. they are retained in the panel by small clips, so don't pull them off, the panel will just come loose. then, unclip the 2 sensors from their respective joints. I plastic bagged and taped mine so stuff would get in them. for now I'm running without them, CEL, yes...so what? I will be adding my O2 sensors back to the system later, i need to fabricate a short pipe section with the 2 sensor bungs and "defoulers" to eliminate any CEL.


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

Don't WRX guys cat their downpipe? Why not use a freerflowing catalytic converter? I don't know a lot about this stuff, but don't kill the cats!


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*

I agree, I' using a Supreme MetalCat, a 3-way converter with metal substrate, 200 cells per inch, flow capacity about 525cfm. although i don't have my O2 sensors hooked in yet... The rabbit OEM is a 3-way which is why there are 2 O2 sensors


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

I sent this thread to my friend the mechanic. Not sure if it helps but here ya go:

If they go the route of spacing the 2nd o2 out with the spark plug defouler, that will render the emissions o2 still in the exhaust stream, keeping the ecu happy, as well as keeping the setup still stock without deleting the secondary 02.
That setup should work without issue. We do it all the time in the obd2 honda world, and chris and I did that in my G35 and it worked fine without throwing any check engine lights.


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

























as you can see from these pics there are 2 O2 sensor bungs in our cat because it is a 3 way. it measures 10" long, the flange mates well with the header so I cut it off and used it in my new downpipe the flange has a 2.5" throat but the downpipe necks to 2.25" so i used a full 2.5" pipe to a new flex section then on to the new cat. I'll get pics of the install when next under the car...I think the way to go, as has been suggested, is to use spark plug non foulers.


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

hey beef quick question because i too am ready to get some cat work in, do you have the BGQ engine code which has the o2 sensor in the middle of the cat and another right after the cat? If so does the metal cat you have also have room for the 2 o2 sensors that the stock cat has. One dead center and the other post cat? I'll order one right now if thats the case if not im gutting that bad boy and seeing if the o2 sensors will clear everything underneath with the extra length of the spark plug defoulers. Thanks in advance!


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (elf911)*

no, the metal cats are very compact and all the catalytic elements are deposited on the same substrate, unlike the OEM cat that has 2 separate sections. I'm having a 2 new bungs welded to a short piece (5") of pipe to reinstall my after cat sensors, i will use the non fouler set up to avoid a fault code, don't know yet if this will work...


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## evolutiontuningvic (Jul 5, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_no, the metal cats are very compact and all the catalytic elements are deposited on the same substrate, unlike the OEM cat that has 2 separate sections. I'm having a 2 new bungs welded to a short piece (5") of pipe to reinstall my after cat sensors, i will use the non fouler set up to avoid a fault code, don't know yet if this will work...

Great minds at work! love it.
Hey, whatsyourbeef, did you ever get hp figures with the met cat?
Just wondering if we are getting warmer to the next bottle neck. 
I'm sure the evoheader is attaining a nice, raw racy finish by now.
cheers everyone, vic at evo


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

Not yet, have a definite dyno run appointment for this coming friday, 
I will post a chart as soon as I'm done...I do think I've reached a max on my OEM injectors, however, the OEM injectors are rated for 19#/hr which according to all literature i've seen amounts to supporting a max of ~180 HP. My fuel system is registering 64psi at the fuel rail, which would give our injectors an equivalent of 23#/hr injectors, or a little over 200HP capability. my engine seems to be running out of steam at WOT over 5K rpm...so this run will help determine if there is a problem...what progress on your end? anxiously awaiting the next installment!


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

sorry for the delay with the dyno run, got bumped again till yesterday, dropped in on the shop and , since i drove over an hour, i got an impromptu run, 3 actually, but no chart as the printer was not working...on a Dyno-mite, never seen one of these machines before...numbers as follows
*178 HP, 204ftlbs torque* i think the intake Vic is working on will bump that to considerably!!


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

nice numbers man, I believe those are the highest yet for an NA rabbit ?


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (evolutiontuningvic)*

the header has turned a nice light bronze color, looks great! everyone who looks under the hood is impressed by your handiwork!!


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (rental_metard)*

by the way, those numbers were on 87 octane pump gas! see what water /alcohol injection can do for you! next run will be with 93 octane... after the new part from EVO Tuning.......


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

new wheels, ADR 18 x 8, also a new badge for my bunny...the fat rabbit with the FR badge indicating: Fast Rabbit ( not formula racing) just wanted my own handle...


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

whats this new part?


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (rental_metard)*

something to help the rabbit breath deeply!!


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

some pics of the metal cat vs the oem cat...also the O2 sensor set up with "defoulers" keeping the sensor out of the direct increased exhaust stream, hopefully this will allow the sensors to read "normal" exhaust flow.


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## mk4chris (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_something to help the rabbit breath deeply!!
 is it an new intake manifol or maybe some cams







could some one just tell us already


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: (mk4chris)*

I think Vic is designing an intake manifold


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*

This is true.
"We are still in the development stages of this part. I hope you understand this is no picnic. It is considerably more involved than anything we have in the market....We hope to have something in the summer, with preliminary performance figures that I am sure will surprise everyone, including the people taking the turbo route." quoting Vic @ Evo


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## mk4chris (Mar 4, 2008)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*

great i cant wait


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## kaptinkangaru (Aug 17, 2006)

jesus i need a better paying job.


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_This is true.
"We are still in the development stages of this part. I hope you understand this is no picnic. It is considerably more involved than anything we have in the market....We hope to have something in the summer, with preliminary performance figures that I am sure will surprise everyone, including the people taking the turbo route." quoting Vic @ Evo

A package deal of intake and exhaust manis would be bitchen!


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## RoundTuit (Aug 6, 2005)

*Re: (spdfrek)*

Any new installs? Dyno sheets?


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## Blitzkrieg'nBunny (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: (kaptinkangaru)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kaptinkangaru* »_jesus i need a better paying job.

you and me both brother...


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## AlBeezy36 (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: (whatsyourbeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_new wheels, ADR 18 x 8, also a new badge for my bunny...the fat rabbit with the FR badge indicating: Fast Rabbit ( not formula racing) just wanted my own handle...

















I briefly looked at those wheels, ebay special? Are those headlights e-codes, or did you get the ebay special on those too?


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## Outie5000 (Aug 8, 2007)

based on the amount of Focus that car has, i'm gonna go with ebay.


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (Outie5000)*

Don't harsh on whatsyourbeef. he's extracted more power out of a NA 2.5 than anyone else around here. The headlights appear to be FK's, not eBay specials.


_Modified by dumbassmozart at 1:54 AM 10-18-2008_


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

so, does this header still cost an arm and a leg or has it dropped any?


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## dumbassmozart (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (MKVJET08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKVJET08* »_so, does this header still cost an arm and a leg or has it dropped any?

ha. the cost went UP $150-250 because of steel prices

http://evolutiontuning.com/evoheaders25DOHC20V.htm
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/cat...=2405


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (dumbassmozart)*

haha wow...


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

*Re: (_V-Dubber_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_V-Dubber_* »_This is true.
"We are still in the development stages of this part. I hope you understand this is no picnic. It is considerably more involved than anything we have in the market....We hope to have something in the summer, with preliminary performance figures that I am sure will surprise everyone, including the people taking the turbo route." quoting Vic @ Evo

bump for any new info in on the new intake mani


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