# BPY no more



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

has anyone else realized they did away with our BPY motors and replaced them with the CCTA engine, major major major differences....just a few of them are the oil pump, no more timing belt now it is a chain, 2 ballance shafts, and the hpfp now runs off the exhaust cam and is a completly different design that is rumored to run at 150bar instead of our stock 110bar







i can't decided if i like the changes or if i don't...i like the hpfp revision (if it works right) but i deff don't like the ballance shaft assemblies...discuss


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

Well the chain is less maintenance, and makes the motor shorter. I'm guessing the what to use a bigger trans.


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## b00stin_02917 (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

balance shafts do suck for sure... workin on my 4g63 i know they pull some power from the motor.. how many do our bpy's have? Do you think they changed it to run off the exhaust cam due to the fact they learned there leassons with the intake cams failing? Maybe the exhaust cam is alot stronger but i doubt it. Timing chains are also nice.. sometimes a little noisy but atleast you dont have to worry about snapping a belt. 150 bar would be butterz to, could it be a swap for our bpy's? Any differences in the head or intake manifold? When will the CCTA's hit the streets?


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## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

Are they officially shipping cars with the new motor? IMO it's going to be a signficant improvement over the already great BPY. I believe there is an addition of extra control over the cams. IIRC the BPY cam phasing but the new generation incorporates cam lift/duration adjustability as well. I could be wrong on that as it was an older technical article that stated that about the new 2.0t. I'm also not sure what use extra lift/duration is on a forced induction motor but on N/A it can lead to some serious gains.

YOu can bet with the better HPFP the midrange gains for stage 1 and stage 2 flashes(when they are available) will be awesome.(akin to the APR hpfp tunes)
I had a build in Oct 07 and still have the BPY.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: BPY no more (jeffc31337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeffc31337* »_Are they officially shipping cars with the new motor? 

They are. Aftermarket has the new engine with a timing belt in a lot of areas


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (syntrix)*

cars with these motors are already hitting dealerships and head and intake mani and everything are all different and don't plan on swapping it until their is fsi sem becuase it no longer uses med9 ecu it now used med12.5
no more flapper motors either, now it is vac operated and part of the manifold controlled by a seperate selinoid valve


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

notice how the pcv, cylinder head and fuel pump look nothing close to how it does on our motors
o yeah and they also went back to a regular airbox not the cover/air cleaner


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## b00stin_02917 (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

wow that ish is totaly different.. is there any engine cover at all?


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## MGMG8GT (Nov 27, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more (b00stin_02917)*

Wow...big changes.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (b00stin_02917)*


_Quote, originally posted by *b00stin_02917* »_wow that ish is totaly different.. is there any engine cover at all? 

yes looks like the A4 engine cover kinda the way it fits


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## b00stin_02917 (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
yes looks like the A4 engine cover kinda the way it fits

awsome! i wonder why they made such major changes and ditched the bpy's after how long of a production time? 2-3 years?


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

this isd for MY08? all cars?


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## dubsker (Jan 8, 2006)

i am pissed.
the ccta is the passat motor. so im curious why they didnt dump that into the gti initially?


_Modified by dubsker at 1:47 AM 3-23-2008_


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (dubsker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubsker* »_i am pissed.
the ccta is the passat motor. so im curious why they didnt dump that into the gti initially?

_Modified by dubsker at 1:47 AM 3-23-2008_

everything gets it now passat, gti, gli, eos, tiguan, A3, A4


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

WTF, what are we going to just keep replacing are cam follower every few thousand miles? us guys running HPFP anyway? does this just mean we have a bad design motor or what? so what are we just limited to KO4? so if we run big turbo with HPFP engine is under constent maintenance


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (fahrenheit 525)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fahrenheit 525* »_WTF, what are we going to just keep replacing are cam follower every few thousand miles? us guys running HPFP anyway? does this just mean we have a bad design motor or what? so what are we just limited to KO4? so if we run big turbo with HPFP engine is under constent maintenance









i just checked my cam follower with slightly over 4k on it, my AT pump was about to punch a hole right threw it







looks like i won't be driving my car until i can get a new one monday


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## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

Does the CCTA airbox look like the one that we've seen in pictures of the TTS engine bay? Basically a tube with a filter housing located at the air duct on the front of the car.(ill try and go find a picture) 
Could be a nice OEM way to pick up a better breathing intake and engine cover if it fits.











_Modified by jeffc31337 at 8:27 AM 3-23-2008_


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (jeffc31337)*

similar but not exactly the same but close, they also added an extra large support on the passanger side engine mount


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Moar pics of new engine please


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (iThread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iThread* »_Moar pics of new engine please









i am going to try to get some screen shots from etka on monday they might be tought to see but it will give everyone an idea about how different this ne motor is


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: (iThread)*


_Quote »_WTF, what are we going to just keep replacing are cam follower every few thousand miles? us guys running HPFP anyway? does this just mean we have a bad design motor or what? so what are we just limited to KO4? so if we run big turbo with HPFP engine is under constent maintenance 



Yeah exactly the same question I have... 
However the cam problem is not that common, I dont hear so much complaint about this on the GTI. The more I heard about this problem the more it seem that having an aftermarket FP make things worst. I will definitely forget the aftermarket FP on my side.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more (b00stin_02917)*


_Quote, originally posted by *b00stin_02917* »_
awsome! i wonder why they made such major changes and ditched the bpy's after how long of a production time? 2-3 years?

Make it fit more applications, emisions, 
The engine is shorter in then length and height so it helps them design cars that still look good and fit new crash safety standards, and sitll place the engine where they need it. 
I personally don't like 99% of it.


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## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

Chris or anyone in the know-- Do you know if this motor is fit with audi valvelift system? They made a big deal about all the ea 888 engines having it.(or at least having the capability for it - but it might be removed in some applications)
This is my first forced induction car so I'm not sure how much variable valve lift/duration will benefit on an f/i motor. I'm guessing that partial throttle response will be even better and maybe even a bit on the top end.


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (jeffc31337)*

so when can we expect to see these motors on U.S. cars


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_so when can we expect to see these motors on U.S. cars 

they are already here, and as for the lift question i am unsure of that answer but i do know peak hp and torque are delivered about 500rpms sooner than our cars stock


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (jeffc31337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeffc31337* »_Chris or anyone in the know-- Do you know if this motor is fit with audi valvelift system? 

I don't have the specs on the new 2.0t in front of me only the new 1.8t and that definitely does not.
I had seen videos of the valve lift stuff when I was still working for Audi. The rep had it on his laptop and was showing someone else I walked by and was like v-tec yeah! He got all pissed and was like its not like v-tec at all, he described it and I was like ok its like v-tec and walked away







. There was of course differences but all the points he was trying to make were the same.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

What new 1.8t?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_What new 1.8t?

it's just like the new CCTA 2L but it's a 1.8


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

My cam follower was checked after over 5K on the VF RSS kit and mine was fine. But really WTF are we going to do about this? There must be a fix for this! How the hell can everyone and company using or making BigTurbo kits and HPFP just eat the lost investment?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (fahrenheit 525)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fahrenheit 525* »_My cam follower was checked after over 5K on the VF RSS kit and mine was fine. But really WTF are we going to do about this? There must be a fix for this! How the hell can everyone and company using or making BigTurbo kits and HPFP just eat the lost investment?

it's going to come down to either changing it out very very frequently or someone coming up with a real fix for it


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote »_
My cam follower was checked after over 5K on the VF RSS kit and mine was fine. But really WTF are we going to do about this? There must be a fix for this! How the hell can everyone and company using or making BigTurbo kits and HPFP just eat the lost investment?


Doing what? A fix for what? This issue is not a mass production issue for us in NA. This was already covered before in another topic. Most weak cam are in Europe model, at worst some early 2006 A4 and Gti or a random badluck on a later car. Everyone is paranoid about this... I have a 2007 with mods, everything work fine and I have no fear about this issue.
The fact the BPY is no more make me wonder at a certain level however. But the reason could be more of an economic reason than a design flaw.


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## OOOO-A3 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: (jeffc31337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_no more timing belt now it is a chain








I HATE having a timing belt that I have to worry about replacing ($$$$). Why couldn't they have just done this from the beginning? It was obviously possible, but instead all the early adopters got stuck with belts. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *jeffc31337* »_
Could be a nice OEM way to pick up a better breathing intake and engine cover if it fits.


I want to know this, too. I hate the PITA combo cover.


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## jeff2.0t (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
it's going to come down to either changing it out very very frequently or someone coming up with a real fix for it

The revised part is not a fix?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
The revised part is not a fix?

the revised part number is for the camshaft, as you can see in the pictures it was the cam follower that has failed or possibly a pump issue...if either a pump or follower fail it will ruin the camshaft but i don't see how you guys can keep blaming this on the cam....it has nothing to do with the cam it has to do with the cam follower/pump


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## b00stin_02917 (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

Titanium cam followers... i bet the metal that is used in the followers isnt the strongest...im sure a titanium follower would'nt be cheap but if it solved the problem it would be well worth it... it will be intresting to see if any of the common failure parts on a bpy will happen with the new motor..we will just have to wait and see eh?


_Modified by b00stin_02917 at 7:49 AM 3-24-2008_


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (b00stin_02917)*


_Quote, originally posted by *b00stin_02917* »_Titanium cam followers... i bet the metal that is used in the followers isnt the strongest...im sure a titanium follower wouldnt be cheap but if it solved the problem it would be well worth it.

can not be harder than the camshaft or else we will be back into camshaft issues....it's like going in circles


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more (jeff2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeff2.0t* »_
Doing what? A fix for what? This issue is not a mass production issue for us in NA. This was already covered before in another topic. Most weak cam are in Europe model, at worst some early 2006 A4 and Gti or a random badluck on a later car. Everyone is paranoid about this... I have a 2007 with mods, everything work fine and I have no fear about this issue.


As jeff said te revied part is the cam, thats a factory issue no an aftermarket issue like the cam follower is.
All other fsi vw/audis other then the current 2.0t use an entirely different style follower.


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## Camc (Oct 26, 2005)

where is the engine id stamp located? i just checked mine, does BWT make any sense to anyone?


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more (b00stin_02917)*

seems like a stronger follower should be pretty easy to do. Any companys looking to make some real quick$$$$ eurospec? VF, APR, forge? anybody


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (fahrenheit 525)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fahrenheit 525* »_seems like a stronger follower should be pretty easy to do. Any companys looking to make some real quick$$$$ eurospec? VF, APR, forge? anybody









follower can not be stronger than the camshaft or you will wear the cam just like what was happening to the A camshafts


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

Why do they have TSI on the engine cover?Whats different?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
follower can not be stronger than the camshaft or you will wear the cam just like what was happening to the A camshafts
 
IMO we are going to need a ROLLER follower along with a stronger spring on the pump to control float espec if you want to turn higher rpm's. 
Jeff perhaps the new 2L common rail diesel has a similar pump/follower setup ?? im sure with there 1850=2200bar fuel pressure they def have to be using a roller lifter or maybe the new 2L TFSI you speak of is using a different design or roller follower??







Bob.G


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Why do they have TSI on the engine cover?Whats different?

everything from oilpan to valve cover, including intake pcv and ecu..and the TSI just stands for turbo straight injection


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]ouglas* »_
everything from oilpan to valve cover, including intake pcv and ecu..and the TSI just stands for turbo straight injection

Are the castings of the block & head at least the same?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
IMO we are going to need a ROLLER follower along with a stronger spring on the pump to control float espec if you want to turn higher rpm's. 
Jeff perhaps the new 2L common rail diesel has a similar pump/follower setup ?? im sure with there 1850=2200bar fuel pressure they def have to be using a roller lifter or maybe the new 2L TFSI you speak of is using a different design or roller follower??







Bob.G 



every other fsi other than the 2L's use a roller on the cam follower thats why they don't have failures, as for this motor i am not sure as i have not takin one apart in person, as for a stronger spring all that does in my opinion is make up for the extra weight of upgraded fp assemblies and the more rail pressure the more pressure their is keeping the valve from floating at higher rpm's
i am no engineer so i could be wrong but those are my understandings


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
everything from oilpan to valve cover, including intake pcv and ecu..and the TSI just stands for turbo straight injection

I saw that car above ( 08 GLI ) at the NY autoshow .I looked quick and it looked like just a k03 some people think its the twin charged motor but from what i saw it didnt look like it .







Bob.G


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Are the castings of the block & head at least the same?

not ever remotely close, it now uses timing chain, and intake and exhaust ballance shafts, fuel pump is drivin off the exhaust cam instead of intake came and everything on the drivers side head on the BPY has bin swapped to the passanger side


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
I saw that car above ( 08 GLI ) at the NY autoshow .I looked quick and it looked like just a k03 some people think its the twin charged motor but from what i saw it didnt look like it .







Bob.G

no already have the etka films it is a single turbo setup just like our motors but the actual motor it's self is way different and it looked like the booster on the drivers side head on our cars is now part of the fuel pump assembly
the guys from vw were getting pissed cuz i started ripping engine covers off cars their and taking stuff apart to see how it worked haha as soon as i walked away they came right over gave me a dirty look and shut the hood










_Modified by [email protected] at 2:13 PM 3-23-2008_


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

Maybe Cat or one of the other aftermarket cam company's will realize the need for a roller follower with all the cam failures and make one when they design upgraded cam for our car.







Bob.G


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_Maybe Cat or one of the other aftermarket cam company's will realize the need for a roller follower with all the cam failures and make one when they design upgraded cam for our car.







Bob.G

you would have to space out the fuel pump for the added lenght of the roller and also make new hard lines for the fuel pump since it will sit in a different location


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
not ever remotely close, it now uses timing chain, and intake and exhaust ballance shafts, fuel pump is drivin off the exhaust cam instead of intake came and everything on the drivers side head on the BPY has bin swapped to the passanger side









Wow so VW changed the style of the block less than 10 years into the 06A/06B design








Jeff if you can is it possible to grab some technical pictures of this engine?I am only finding the 1.4TSI engine specs,not this 1.8/2.0 TSI (assuming its the same engine found in the european Audi A3 1.8 TSI)


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*

yeah i am going to get some screen shots off of etka tomorrow at work if i have time


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
you would have to space out the fuel pump for the added lenght of the roller and also make new hard lines for the fuel pump since it will sit in a different location
 
Do the other FSI engine's using the roller lifter are spaced out? 
Im sure they will have a solution because they wont want premature cam failures .







Bob.G


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_yeah i am going to get some screen shots off of etka tomorrow at work if i have time

I knew I saw the engine somewhere....


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
Do the other FSI engine's using the roller lifter are spaced out? 
Im sure they will have a solution because they wont want premature cam failures .







Bob.G

the other engines already have the extra clearance between the fuel pump and camshaft for the roller cam follower


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*

yes issam that is the little brother to the new CCTA engine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

damn. Interesting stuff. I wonder if these new engines will receive the carbon buildup as easily as ours. I'm curious about the new flapper system. Seems to me like they wanted to just make the engine overall more reliable.


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## dubsker (Jan 8, 2006)

well now the question is.. is it worth trading in our bpy's for the new ccta.


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (dubsker)*

Probably not. At least for now








One thing is I wanna get that intake. lol.


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## dubsker (Jan 8, 2006)

well for another thing, there is absolutely 0 aftermarket support as far as i've seen for med 12.5 and the ccta. so everyone would have to be starting over again.
i wonder if they actually moved the dv valve off the turbo.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (dubsker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubsker* »_well for another thing, there is absolutely 0 aftermarket support as far as i've seen for med 12.5 and the ccta. so everyone would have to be starting over again.
i wonder if they actually moved the dv valve off the turbo.

as far as i know most tuners are currently working on the med12.5, it is used on more than just this new engine


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## Twelvizm (Apr 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_









Damn! There's still a noise-pipe!


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_









Looks like the same engine cover as the skoda 1.8T


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## WetWagen (Apr 23, 2006)

I'm not sure why, but I like that much better than the previous engine cover.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (WetWagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WetWagen* »_I'm not sure why, but I like that much better than the previous engine cover.

Probably because it takes like 1/100'th of the effort to remove.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
as far as i know most tuners are currently working on the med12.5, it is used on more than just this new engine

i already flashed several 08 MKV GTIs and 08 Passats. i dont know whether they had the new engine tho or if they were earlier productions


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
i already flashed several 08 MKV GTIs and 08 Passats. i dont know whether they had the new engine tho or if they were earlier productions


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
i already flashed several 08 MKV GTIs and 08 Passats. i dont know whether they had the new engine tho or if they were earlier productions

they were probably BPY motors, i have yet to see one of these cars on the street but i know they are here in the country, i took some vin numbers off of vwhub to confirm


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## Jetty! (May 10, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I made a thread about this: Saw this at the show and was confused...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Jetty!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jetty!* »_I made a thread about this: Saw this at the show and was confused...

















And this is why I have a love/hate relationship with Volkswagen Engineers....how the hell are we going to modify that


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## snowbooch (Mar 5, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_








And this is why I have a love/hate relationship with Volkswagen Engineers....how the hell are we going to modify that









01101000011000010111011001100101001000000110011001100001011010010111010001101000


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

The turbo looks totally different in those 2 photos.
Are you absolutely sure it's a 2.0T and not the new 1.8T?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_The turbo looks totally different in those 2 photos.
Are you absolutely sure it's a 2.0T and not the new 1.8T?

yeah i have the films at work, 82.51 bore x 92.8 stroke = 2L and 9.6:1 compression is ready for some big boost and nice timing


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Any clue why the cover looks the same as the 1.8T and turbo looks different in the two images? What do the parts number notes say for part 33 in the intake manifold image and part 66 in the cooling system photo?
Also with the HPFP running on the exhaust cam, is it mounted differently? it looks like it's still in the same spot, w/o having a larger piston, how would it reach the exhaust cam further back? Hopefully Bentley will throw out a new self study guide so we can get some more basic info.


_Modified by Arin at 6:23 AM 3-24-2008_


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Any clue why the cover looks the same as the 1.8T and turbo looks different in the two images? What do the parts number notes say for part 33 in the intake manifold image and part 66 in the cooling system photo?
Also with the HPFP running on the exhaust cam, is it mounted differently? it looks like it's still in the same spot, w/o having a larger piston, how would it reach the exhaust cam further back? Hopefully Bentley will throw out a new self study guide so we can get some more basic info.
_Modified by Arin at 6:23 AM 3-24-2008_

part number 33 and 66 just says to see the group the turbo is in, you have to remember that these pictures are not 100% accurate they are used on every film threw out the world
fuel pump is nothing even close to the old setup
dv still mounted on the turbo also


_Modified by [email protected] at 6:28 AM 3-24-2008_


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: BPY no more (b00stin_02917)*

So, it's better in every possible way
I'm little disappointed, It's just too soon for a new engine on this platform


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## nickg (Nov 11, 2001)

well, are these what come in the PZEV cars? makes sense that they would as that is supposedly a new engine...


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (nickg)*

air cleaner








coolant system








oil filter housing








high pressure fuel pump








head








intake manifold








short block








timing chains








valves and cams








water pump








turbo


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*

#15 on the waterpump diagram looks like a belt? Timing chains with a belt driven water pump


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (tyrolkid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tyrolkid* »_#15 on the waterpump diagram looks like a belt? Timing chains with a belt driven water pump









Correct
There is a gear on the end of one of the balance shafts that drives the belt for the waterpump.
Overall I don't like this engine one bit.


----------



## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

I see reference to a 9.6 compression ratio down from 10.3.
From a tuner perspective is this lower compression level a net benefit as it allows you to run more timing or a net loss from the .7 compression points.
I'm sure no one will know for sure until serious in house testing but from the tuning experience of the BPY did you guys feel like there was a lot more left on the table by being able to increase timing you just couldn't do with the 10.3 CR?


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (jeffc31337)*

BPY is 10.5:1 and the 9.6:1 is probably more power capable because you can run more timing and everyone knows timing=power


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Overall I don't like this engine one bit.

You never stated why Chris ?


----------



## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: (EL_3grab)*

I would say timing = power is a little simplistic approach. But I acknowledge that I still have a lot to learn about the subject.
If timing = power a 10.5 CR motor would be faster than 12.0CR motor given the same octane fuel which in the naturally aspirated world is just the opposite. A 12.0 CR motor(like found in the is250/350) create much more torque for a given displacement then their lower CR brethren.

In my limited exporsure to the F/I world basically i see a lower CR as letting you run more boost and avoiding detonation or more timing and avoiding detonation. Boost is a non issue because the standard BPY can already flow as much boost as the k03 can put out. Timing is the other question -- but there has to be something given up for dropping the CR.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (jeffc31337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeffc31337* »_I would say timing = power is a little simplistic approach. But I acknowledge that I still have a lot to learn about the subject.
If timing = power a 10.5 CR motor would be faster than 12.0CR motor given the same octane fuel which in the naturally aspirated world is just the opposite. A 12.0 CR motor(like found in the is250/350) create much more torque for a given displacement then their lower CR brethren.

In my limited exporsure to the F/I world basically i see a lower CR as letting you run more boost and avoiding detonation or more timing and avoiding detonation. Boost is a non issue because the standard BPY can already flow as much boost as the k03 can put out. Timing is the other question -- but there has to be something given up for dropping the CR.

you under stand a k03 at 20psi and a GT30 at 20psi does not flow the same amount of air right? and tuning between n/a and f/i is totally different


----------



## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

Admittedly so - hence my frequent comments as i'm new to F/I and have much to learn.
Still I was refereing to stock vs stock comparison which is still going to have a k03 and the same amount of flow.
There has to be a trade off for lowering the CR -- definitely the ability to add timing is there but what is it that is lost is what I'm hoping someone from one of the tuning companies would know about.


----------



## TypeR #126 (May 10, 2006)

*Re: (jeffc31337)*

All things otherwise being equal, a drop in the static compression would see a resulting loss in off/low boost power. They may be juggling the cam phasing to compensate for this however.
I'm wondering if this more a fuel saving strategy for the factory. The cylinders temps should be lower, which could mean the need for less fueling to keep the EGT's in line under light loads.


----------



## JWelty (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (TypeR #126)*

there is some good info in this thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

Thanks TypeR -- That makes perfect sense! 
I would hope they compensate for it with cam phasing or cam lift(if available) adjustment


----------



## JaxACR (Dec 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
oil filter housing









Is that the same plastic oil filter canister the BPY has? It looks like a 'normal' oil filter, but it's hard to tell.


----------



## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: (JaxACR)*

Some info on the new engine block........
http://www.eb-bruehl.com/files/pr_mtz_engl.pdf


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (JaxACR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JaxACR* »_
Is that the same plastic oil filter canister the BPY has? It looks like a 'normal' oil filter, but it's hard to tell.

no it's all new, it is a screw on 06J filter that you remove from the top, if you buy an oil extractor you can do your oil changes with out ever jacking your car off the ground







just like the pump duece's


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Some info on the new engine block........
http://www.eb-bruehl.com/files/pr_mtz_engl.pdf

Thanks Joe

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Overall I don't like this engine one bit.

Hey at least they kept the same flanges for the manifolds but all in all I agree 110%








See this is why I can not agree with Volkswagen Engineers.They went from the 058 block where water pump changes took them all of 25 minutes to the 06B block where water pump changes required complete disassembly of the front of the engine.Now that they decided to use timing chain they figured....ah lets not have a repeat of the 1.8T scenario's.Lets use timing chains (GREAT http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) but lets run the water pump off the rear of the crankshaft


----------



## yobtah (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*

Maybe I don't understand some of the implications of the water pump's location, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.
With a timing belt engine, it's necessary to open the timing cover and replace the belt regularly. Most people replace the water pump at the same time because they're in there anyway. Removing the accessories to get to the belt is a big job and not much fun, but it's necessary.
With the new engine, it's no longer necessary to open the timing cover for probably the entire life of the car. By moving the water pump to a more accessible location, VW made it easier to change just that part. If it were still connected to the timing chain, everyone would complain that one of the benefits of a timing chain is not needing to access or replace it and they're being forced to do that anyway to replace the water pump. This avoids that problem.
Or am I missing something else?


----------



## melman8r (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: (nickg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nickg* »_well, are these what come in the PZEV cars? makes sense that they would as that is supposedly a new engine... 

If that's the case, time to retire the '03 24V VR6 for the new little turbo...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more (yobtah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yobtah* »_Removing the accessories to get to the belt is a big job and *not much fun*, but it's necessary.

Never owned an 8V i see









_Quote, originally posted by *yobtah* »_it's no longer necessary to open the timing cover for probably the *entire life of the car*.

Nor a VR6


----------



## yobtah (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*

Heh... yeah, I haven't owned an 8V or a VR6. I've still gotta think that's part of the deal, though... VW is trying to make water pump replacements easier without disassembling lots of other stuff.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: BPY no more (yobtah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yobtah* »_Heh... yeah, I haven't owned an 8V or a VR6. I've still gotta think that's part of the deal, though... VW is trying to make water pump replacements easier without disassembling lots of other stuff.

If they would just make everything indestructible, it wouldn't be a problem. ;-)


----------



## OOOO-A3 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Never owned an 8V i see








Nor a VR6









I put 170,000 on a 12v VR6 (Mk4 GTI) without touching the chain. The guy I sold it to put over 30k more on it, and finally did the chain around 202,000 I think. Still going strong.
Back on topic... so, what about that intake/airbox fitment?


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more (yobtah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yobtah* »_Heh... yeah, I haven't owned an 8V or a VR6. I've still gotta think that's part of the deal, though... VW is trying to make water pump replacements easier without disassembling lots of other stuff.

Changing the waterpump was probably the least of their concerns with this engine. If you read the list of reasons why they went to this engine its not on the list.
Point is to make a more compact engine thats good for the evironment.. they really don't care what it takes to work on it. That definitely was not a concern with this engine from all the info I've looked at on it.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_

Hey at least they kept the same flanges for the manifolds but all in all I agree 110%










haha I've looked at the picture of the back of the head and thought that many times in the last week, at least they kept that the same.


----------



## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

Correct me if i'm wrong as I didn't spend alot of time reading the info on the engine block - but it appears that the block is designed to withstand higher boost levels and has a more solid bottom end.
Does anyone know if this is the same engine block on the S3/TTS? Since Audi did some changes to the old 225 block for the TT for reinforcement, i'm wondering if there are any changes for those engines - or if they just built it into this block.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Correct me if i'm wrong as I didn't spend alot of time reading the info on the engine block - but it appears that the block is designed to withstand higher boost levels and has a more solid bottom end.
Does anyone know if this is the same engine block on the S3/TTS? Since Audi did some changes to the old 225 block for the TT for reinforcement, i'm wondering if there are any changes for those engines - or if they just built it into this block.

i was to lazy to show up for work today but i can check the part number on the rods and see if they are on the "k04" cars from audi tomorrow


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more (OOOO-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOOO-A3* »_I put 170,000 on a 12v VR6 (Mk4 GTI) without touching the chain.

Its scheduled to be replaced @ 100,000 miles along with the guides.It does not last forever...guess VW really had users like you in mind









_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Does anyone know if this is the same engine block on the S3/TTS? Since Audi did some changes to the old 225 block for the TT for reinforcement, i'm wondering if there are any changes for those engines - or if they just built it into this block.

TTS looks like it has the old engine cover and dip stick location which means its using the old block.I could be wrong though as this is the first time I have seen a thread with quality information on this.


----------



## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
TTS looks like it has the old engine cover and dip stick location which means its using the old block.I could be wrong though as this is the first time I have seen a thread with quality information on this.

That's why I asked - as I looked back at some of the pics of the engine on the TTS.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
That's why I asked - as I looked back at some of the pics of the engine on the TTS. 

Just for reference.
*Audi S3 Motor:*
















*TTS Motor:*


----------



## jrowny (Sep 11, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just got my 08 GTI last week with 10 miles on it. I'm relieved to find out that it is a BPY.


----------



## nickg (Nov 11, 2001)

so can anyone answer my question? is this the motor used in the new 08 pzev cars?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (nickg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nickg* »_so can anyone answer my question? is this the motor used in the new 08 pzev cars?

_Quote, originally posted by *nickg* »_so can anyone answer my question? is this the motor used in the new 08 pzev cars?

PZEV?


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

partial zero emissions vehicle


----------



## WallyGTI (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

BPY? CCTA? Sry im still kinda new to the scene.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (WallyGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WallyGTI* »_BPY? CCTA? Sry im still kinda new to the scene.









Engine codes. It kinda denotes major versions of the engine.


----------



## WallyGTI (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*

Well I get that the engines are pretty much entirely different...I just didnt know what BPY and CCTA stood for...Thanks.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
oil filter housing










For those that wanted to know where the oil filter housing is going:


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

thats exactly it issam but sits the other way in the vw's


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_thats exactly it issam but sits the other way in the vw's

Is it bad if I think this engine is growing on me?







...installing an oil cooler is going to be such a bitch though.
Do you know how much heavier the GTI is with this engine over the BPY?No way with all those balance shafts it could be the same weight.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

time will tell, don't really know the ins and outs yet of the motor..i am just resistant to change i like my timing belts, etc







f' emissions (just kidding to all you "green" people)


----------



## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Really how much worse can it be compared to the oil burning, cam wiping BPY








What bothers me more is how quickly this engine was dropped. Makes me wonder if there's much more troubles to come.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (solarflare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_Really how much worse can it be compared to the oil burning, cam wiping BPY








What bothers me more is how quickly this engine was dropped. Makes me wonder if there's much more troubles to come.









the motor was not dropped do it it's troubles, the motor was dropped because vw has always been the leader in technology and still is as they will have the biggest line up of pzev cars when they don't even really need to http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif all tree huggers give vw a http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 's up


----------



## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Is it bad if I think this engine is growing on me?







...installing an oil cooler is going to be such a bitch though.
Do you know how much heavier the GTI is with this engine over the BPY?No way with all those balance shafts it could be the same weight.

If you read the PDF a few pages back they saved (IIRC) 3 kilos. Its an extra balance shaft but they made the engine a bit shorter length-wise as well.


----------



## Raring 2 Go (May 22, 2000)

*Re: (milan616)*

So half the people like the new motor and half dislike it. What am I suppossed to think, dang it?!








Does the pump being driven by the exhaust cam in any way indicate VW will fix the cam follower issue?


----------



## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: (Raring 2 Go)*

No one really knows what it is capable of yet!
The lower CR is bad, but it may be able to run more timing at the top end which will give more top end power which is good but the lower CR will lead to lose of off boost/lowboost torque which is bad but the ability to run more timing may offset some or most of that which is good but the balance shafts will definitely sap some power which is bad but the better high pressure fuel pump will allow for more midrange gains with ecu/exhaust updates which is good!
Thoroughly confused yet? Good! We won't know for sure what it's capable of until tuners get a hold of it and can do their thing for a while.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (jeffc31337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeffc31337* »_No one really knows what it is capable of yet!
The lower CR is bad, but it may be able to run more timing at the top end which will give more top end power which is good but the lower CR will lead to lose of off boost/lowboost torque which is bad but the ability to run more timing may offset some or most of that which is good but the balance shafts will definitely sap some power which is bad but the better high pressure fuel pump will allow for more midrange gains with ecu/exhaust updates which is good!
Thoroughly confused yet? Good! We won't know for sure what it's capable of until tuners get a hold of it and can do their thing for a while.

totally wrong about this engine.... it actually makes peak hp 600rpm faster and peak torque 300rpm fast than the BPY







and the lower compression is a good thing in this motor IMO


----------



## defrost (May 26, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i am picking up my new 08 gti today. will it have the engine with the timing chain or the original timing belt?


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (defrost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *defrost* »_i am picking up my new 08 gti today. will it have the engine with the timing chain or the original timing belt?

belt unless you special ordered a pzev car


----------



## defrost (May 26, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
belt unless you special ordered a pzev car

well i didn't special order and i don't know what pzev means so i guess no then lol.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (defrost)*

partial zero emissions vehicle


----------



## jeffc31337 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: (defrost)*

I just want to see some dynos... preferably after some tuners get a chance to work on them! 
Don't get me wrong my intial impression is that this will be a step up in technology and an improvement. I really believe that. But with so much on the table in the BPY with jsut tuning we don't really know what this car is new motor is capable of and if audi/vw jut changed the tune/made a freer flowing DP for the earlier HP and TQ peaks.


----------



## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_partial zero emissions vehicle

I haven't seen any engine, from Toyota, Honda, Subaru, or VW, that is truly different in PZEV states, in the past ten years. YMMV.
One engine and one engine only = much reduced development and federalization costs.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (feels_road)*


_Quote, originally posted by *milan616* »_Its an extra balance shaft but they made the engine a bit shorter length-wise as well.

Dont see how they did that since the alternator is looking like the same part# which means the serpentine belt is going to sit in the same plane as it did before making the overall length of the engine no different than the previous generation.

_Quote, originally posted by *feels_road* »_
One engine and one engine only = much reduced development and federalization costs.









But saving money is TOTALLY against VW's policy.It is so bad now that they have 4 engines all with the same displacement range. 2.7TT V6,3.2 V6,3.2 VR6, 3.6 VR6
Not 1 single part is transferable to the other....


----------



## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Dont see how they did that since the alternator is looking like the same part# which means the serpentine belt is going to sit in the same plane as it did before making the overall length of the engine no different than the previous generation.

Read the PDF?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (milan616)*


_Quote, originally posted by *milan616* »_Read the PDF?

I dont need to....








I know these engines inside out so I can pass my own judgement.


----------



## Tom16v (Apr 7, 2003)

I'm looking at the self study book right now and the BPY has balance shafts so I wouldn't worry about that because they are already there. The new engine cover looks good though, probably won't need a forklift or crane to remove it either : P


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Tom16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom16v* »_I'm looking at the self study book right now and the BPY has balance shafts so I wouldn't worry about that because they are already there. The new engine cover looks good though, probably won't need a forklift or crane to remove it either : P 

The "balance shafts" as you call them for the BPY are really in the oil pump though,not the engine block itself like the old 9A/ABA/AEB motors and this new engine.


----------



## mikes96GTI (Jan 22, 2003)

*Re: BPY no more (Wizard-of-OD)*

interesting, from the PDF it looks like a major step forward. Nothing to be worried about our motors are fine, the new ones will have their teeth cutting issues too, but from what I read of the PDF, it looks like alot went into it and VAG is banking on this engine for a number of applications for years to come, At BMW, we make subtle revisions in powertrain ever year, and major ones every few.
As far as the cam follower issue, if it really is one, if you designed a roller style tappet, you would have to engineer a way to keep it from spinning in its bore, which would necessitate re-engineering the head or machining a groove into the bore, which is far from cost effective. 
On a side note, I was unable to locate a tech manual for the BPY motor, does anyone have a link somewhere?


----------



## HPR (Oct 31, 2004)

info about 1.8 tfsi BYT
http://www.eb-bruehl.com/files/pr_mtz.pdf
http://www.tuneline.at
google : audi 1,8 4V tfsi-motor 
selbststudienprogram 384


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (HPR)*

Damn, I gotta find oen of those for the current 2.0T.
Wish that was in English. Good find!


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Arin)*

./arin.google.search = + found english:
http://www.eb-bruehl.com/files/pr_mtz_engl.pdf

More stuff:
http://freeweb.siol.net/liliko...e.pdf



_Modified by Arin at 7:52 PM 3-31-2008_


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*

if you think those are good you should see the awesome information in the vw self study guides for techs


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_if you think those are good you should see the awesome information in the vw self study guides for techs

Is it like the old self study guide for the 2.0?


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*

i never looked at the old ones but the new ones have more information than a tech would ever need


----------



## TuffguyIX (Sep 23, 2001)

Do you guys know if the transmissions have also been changed/fortified?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TuffguyIX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TuffguyIX* »_Do you guys know if the transmissions have also been changed/fortified?

Didnt realise there was a problem to begin with?


----------



## TuffguyIX (Sep 23, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I remember that there were some issues/concerns with the DSG not being able to handle the torque before (chipped). I could be mistaken of course, but I'm pretty sure that there was some issue. If these new engines make even more power, I'd assume that it would be even more of a problem.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (TuffguyIX)*

DSG's have seen tons of BT kits already.


----------



## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
i just checked my cam follower with slightly over 4k on it, my AT pump was about to punch a hole right threw it







looks like i won't be driving my car until i can get a new one monday

umm i've had autotech in for 2k miles now...i'm guessing i should check mine soon? that sucks.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: BPY no more (LEWXCORE)*

no my car has seen some pretty extreme limits and that might be the cause, one of which is turning the motor to close to 8k, but nothing is set in stone i am still researching the failure


----------



## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: BPY no more ([email protected])*

well i know your car has i've read the threads... just made it sound like this would be a general problem with the autotech fuel pump... i shouldn't be worried in the least bit anyways since my fuel pump only corrected my fuel cut problems and didn't actuall ymake my car faster at all


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_DSG's have seen tons of BT kits already.

larger.. not BIG


----------



## BumbleBeeJBG (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: BPY no more (b00stin_02917)*

My GTI new car build date- February 2008
My engine- BPY
I don't know if I'm happy or sad.


----------



## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

Can anyone confirm that they are using a roller type follower to actuate the HPFP on the CCTA?


----------



## RoamingGnome (Jan 12, 2007)

wtf is everyone talking about??
I just bought an 07 GTI - timing chain or belt??
Did I get a crappier engine?


----------



## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (RoamingGnome)*

2007? Of course you got the outgoing one --- belt. 

At this point, no one can tell how the vast differences will impact the user. With VW history, the first year run of this engine may not seem much of an improvement, but after that (and after all the minor bugs are worked out), it most likely will be. Even for modders.


----------



## RoamingGnome (Jan 12, 2007)

I haven't looked at the service manual since I haven't picked up the car. Please don't tell me the timing belt is something I'll have to change at 60K like last time (when my friends Honda will last to 110K).


----------



## BumbleBeeJBG (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: (RoamingGnome)*

If you're speaking of the 2002 GTI in your sig you're a few engines too old for this thread


----------



## simbany1 (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (BumbleBeeJBG)*

So I just picked up my 2008 Lux yesterday and the first thing I did in the delivery check was popping the hood. I see that I got the TSI engine. So chipping the TSI engine has been discussed briefly but couldn't find any conclusion. Can we use the same chip that's out there for the FSI or am I going to have to wait on it....?
BTW, apparently not only do the new B6's get the TSI engines, but they also deleted the paddle shifters....







Was a little upset that it didn't have them, but after I drove and felt the quickness and the ride, I forgot all about it... would've been nice to have, but no big deal for me. It's just nice to get out of the Maxima and back into the B6. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Mohudsolo (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (simbany1)*

The same chip will not work on the new motor, they use a totally new, and from what I'm reading much more complicated, computer/software.
As far as comments about the DSG and if it has been upgraded, in the last few days I've seen info on 3 different new motors out in the Euro market for the TT. All 3 are rated at exactly 258 ft-lbs torque, the exact number that was said to be the DSG limit when first introduced. I'd say VW has not upgraded its torque handling ability yet.


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## meerbusch (Jun 1, 2008)

*Re: (Mohudsolo)*

I'm new in this forum and kind of accidently stumbled over this post. BPY engine vs CCTA engine is a very clear thing: The CCTA engine is a complete new design and improves in many areas where the old engine was a compromise. (Note: I'm german and called up a friend in germany who happened to be an Audi Master mechanic. He forwarded me a pdf document ; this one is actually a public document).
balance shafts: BPY has a add-on solution (expensive) vs build-in in CCTA. The goal is to improve the accoustic behavior as well as the mid- to high-end vibration. This will help wear and tear long term for any attached part as well as internal engine block parts.
engine block: aside from the fact that the engine block is shared with the new 1.8L engine of the same family ( hence "world engine") it has been build for higher average internal pressures up to 25 Bar. That in turn allows for higher specific power output of greater 100kW/L and 175Nm/L. The current BPY engine is by far not build for that.
engine block vs crankshaft: to prevent longterm warping Audi/VW used a metal composition with almost identical expansion coefficients 13.17 and 13.26 um/mK. This has been an issue with the bearings at high power output and high temperature.
thermal profiles: the engine was optimized for higher temp effeciency which means less losses and better gas milage. 
Head and block: the head is aluminum and has a different characteristic. To minimize stress between both parts they used highly komplex FEM Modells to optimize the mounting points and a better more evenly distribution of the stress points. That's a major improvement for the gaskets and for the head mounts (bolts). The old engine wasn't optimized that well.
waterpump and thermostat housing was removed from the block because of the lack of structurell support. But all oil and oil return paths , blow-by paths and chain housing was integrated. The engine is lighter, shorter, better to maintain due to an overall lower component count for the engine. Keep in mind, this engine is also cheaper to manufacture (one of the main goals) as well as being manufacturable all over the world (in the US as well). This engine was actually a co-developent of Audi and a steel plant (sounds funny I know, but they have the knowledge of HOW to make it). This was not driven by VW. 
Needless to say that, in the current configuration this engine is good for 270HP in the standart build. In the paper they also talked about the manufacturing process of precision pouring and casting and there they are about a factor of 2x better than on the old engine. Their process window is much much tighter now and more reliable. That bgood for process variation.
So knowing what is in the paper, and neglecting the modding aspect of the older BPY engine for the moment, the CCTA engine is a generation better, more reliable and more efficient. The smaller new 1.8L brother is already one of the best choices in germany. Compared to the older 1.8T engine it has 50% more torque (less 10 HP) but is almost as drivable as the 2.0L BPY engine. And that is a statement in one of my german car magazines. So my choice is clear here. Anyone who has the new engine now is lucky to have it, because it's the future.
(Audi will have some mods that VW engines won't get like variable valve lifting)
Hope that helped some people


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## Andrew 16v (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (meerbusch)*

Man you just put a huge smile on my face. I got one in my 08 Wolfsburg and was on the fence about it. Thanks for all the info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (meerbusch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meerbusch* »_Audi will have some mods that VW engines won't get like variable valve lifting.

Generally speaking that's true, however, as I understand it, it's more the orientation of the installation than which marque built the car. Said another way, even though Audi will be the only one installing the valve lift version in their cars, said cars will be the ones with the longitudinal engine orientation (i.e. A4, A5, A6...), cars like the A3 and the TT will not get the valve lift version of the engine.
More's the pity as I'd _love_ to have an A3 with the more powerful mill.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (meerbusch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meerbusch* »_That in turn allows for higher specific power output of greater *100kW/L and 175Nm/L*. The current BPY engine is by far not build for that.

....right


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*FV-QR*



















































































































































































































































































































































































































_Modified by Arin at 7:31 AM 6-3-2008_


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Arin)*

Page 38 says the fuel pump is driven by the _intake_ cam.
Based on all of the diagrams, it would appear as though it was moved further back on the head and is now driven by the _exhaust_ cam.
Just a typo I presume.


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## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Interesting read (not that I understand what it all means...)


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Page 38 says the fuel pump is driven by the _intake_ cam.
Based on all of the diagrams, it would appear as though it was moved further back on the head and is now driven by the _exhaust_ cam.
Just a typo I presume.

pretty big typo.
the other image definitely shows it on the exhaust cam.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Arin)*

This engine makes me cringe more and more


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## RicekillerGTI (May 23, 2008)

So is this engine better or worse?....For guys thats gonna modify, that is.


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## Andrew 16v (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (RicekillerGTI)*

wow I can't believe I read that. Pretty infomative tho. Deff a big oop's on the fuel pump.


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## MKV DarkstaR (Aug 10, 2006)

good find Arin


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I don't understand what all this noise is about.
VAG GROUP is notorious about its marketing campaign, and yet, after 
some time, problems with ALL engines seem to pop up from everywhere.
Just wait a while and see what happens.No engine is perfect, and i can tell you that it all a matter of time.When the TFSI was first out, it was engine of the year, and it still is.Did you see anyone mentioning the PCV's, the DV's the pumps and the camshafts ??Nope...Its gonna happen all over again.Its almost like all of us are VW's guinea pigs.They test, and change..Thats about it.

Still though.Having an engine that can make upwards of 350 BHP with just a turbo switch is impressive.And to those that AREN'T experiencing any mechanical probs, the older engine is pretty good.
So please don't salivate over something new, at least not until its run through it's paces...


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_










Did anyone else notice the 148mm/21mm with a big end of 48mm?
If thats the case then they have shrunk the connecting rod journal on the crankshaft.
Nice rod but that means back to the drawing board on a design that has been around since 1978


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Did anyone else notice the 148mm/21mm with a big end of 48mm?
If thats the case then they have shrunk the connecting rod journal on the crankshaft.
Nice rod but that means back to the drawing board on a design that has been around since 1978









Most of that rod information and similar was incorrect at first for the BPY at first also. I don't trust it till its in someones hand.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Most of that rod information and similar was incorrect at first for the BPY at first also. I don't trust it till its in someones hand.

What do you think of the spur gear on the crank vs normal keyway that was used since 1978?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Haven't seen it first hand so really don't know.. When first looking at it the new setup is kind of scary, but really they whole keyway thing is kind of nuts too.


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## mamock116 (Nov 8, 2004)

this has blown my mind


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (mamock116)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mamock116* »_this has blown my mind

Did you just spin a bearing or did you throw a rod too?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (chris[email protected]k)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I don't trust it till its in someones hand.

148mm/21mm








Inside scoop is that THIS engine and most of the 4 cylinder gasoline engines wont last much longer as they will eventually be phased out by the inline-5 within 3-4 years.Audi is really pushing for the 5 cylinder motor to take over the entire line up and when I asked why the answer I got was pretty damn logical.
NA motor produces 170hp as seen in the rabbits,causes no issues and HP can be bumped with just simple bolt ons to the motor (just look @ C2's kit).
The good news is that the new TDi motors are amazing.


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## 08 passat turbo (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Wizard-of-OD)*

should i be upset that i have the FSI then?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (08 passat turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08 passat turbo* »_should i be upset that i have the FSI then?

No...


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## 08 passat turbo (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Wizard-of-OD)*

i LOOOOOVE! my passat dont get me wrong...but I HATE having outdated technology


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (08 passat turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *08 passat turbo* »_i LOOOOOVE! my passat dont get me wrong...but I HATE having outdated technology
















It's the same technology only _supposedly_ done better


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## 08 passat turbo (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (solarflare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_
It's the same technology only _supposedly_ done better









i have the FSI http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nick526 (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (08 passat turbo)*

So why are they still producing plastic impeller water pumps?










_Modified by nick526 at 1:33 AM 7-15-2009_


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (nick526)*

what do they care? ppl will still buy the car and the parts will hopefully last till just past the warranty.
parts are cheap to them... they are all built in eastern europe...


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*

wait, wow, this thread was dead. oops. lol


_Modified by Krieger at 5:59 PM 7-15-2009_


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