# Swaybar issue



## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

So I have the OEM front swaybar with Powerflex bushings, on all OEM suspension in the front. The passenger side lower bolt in the endlink is rubbing on the pancake IC pipe because the swaybar has slid over to that side. I can get under the car and move the swaybar along its axis of rotation and correct the problem, but within a week it's back to rubbing the pancake pipe. I can tell when it has moved because I can hear a squeeking from the head of the bolt rubbing on the steel of the pipe. Anyone had this happen? What would cause the swaybar to slide over to that side? Thanks in advance.


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

Did you get the right size Bushings?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Yes, 20mm, and there is little if any play in the bushings. It takes a pry bar to slide the bar back to it's centered location with both end links as close to vertical as possible.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Are you sure it did not rot out in the center and brake? As if one side dont move and the other keeps walking out on you? You should lift the car in the air and get a better look at whats going on under the car.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Lol. It would be a lot easier to move if that was the case. No, the swaybar is in one piece. Southern car, no salt, no rust.


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

how old are your sway bar endlinks?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Probably original but there is no excessive play in them. I personally think most of you regulars put too much merit in changing the endlinks and tie rod ends.


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## darrenbyrnes (Jan 4, 2005)

What about popping on some split collar clamps to your FSB??











:beer::beer::beer:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

They'd have to be so close to the bushing/bracket that I doubt there is room there where it wouldn't contact the subframe. .


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## corradojohnt (Sep 16, 2007)

My guess would be the sway bar is shot. When I had mine changed one of the bar clips to keep the bushing in place was broken off. Seems to me that if these are gone the bar would move left to right. GL :beer:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

I'm assuming you mean the bushing clamp/clip/bracket and not the actual bar, but no, the clips aren't broken. Since I had changed the bushings before, my thought was that one of the clamps/clips was loose, which they aren't. Uggh, this is annoying, and may cause me to pull the trigger on some coilovers and just to disconnect the front sway all together.


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## darrenbyrnes (Jan 4, 2005)

20v master said:


> They'd have to be so close to the bushing/bracket that I doubt there is room there where it wouldn't contact the subframe. .


That is the point. Attach the collar to the FSB right next to the bracket to limit the back and forth movement of the FSB. The OEM plastic bit that breaks all the time does this very same thing and I have heard of others using a set up like this.

Just a thought.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

darrenbyrnes said:


> That is the point. Attach the collar to the FSB right next to the bracket to limit the back and forth movement of the FSB. The OEM plastic bit that breaks all the time does this very same thing and I have heard of others using a set up like this.
> 
> Just a thought.


If the clamp is in contact with the subframe, it would either A) not be so tight on the swaybar that it wouldn't stop the bar from sliding on it's axis or B) be tight enough on the swaybar that the subframe would limit rotation of the bar. Neither is desired.


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## bauch1425 (Jun 29, 2006)

I have had the same issue for ages and have never figured it out. I originally replaced my OEM bushings due to the cracked plastic piece with the PowerFlex poly bushings. Noise was cured, for maybe a month and the creaking was back. I thought they may have needed to be relubricated, but noticed when I took everything apart I had the same issue you described! My sway bar link/nut had rubbed against the pancake IC pipe and sheered it off. Probably 80k later and the issue still remains. 

I never thought that could be the source of the squeaking noise (as it seems bilateral), but I really have looked into the cause of the noise too far. I've re-lubed the bars multiple times but it always comes back after a while...


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## corradojohnt (Sep 16, 2007)

I had replaced my bushing and end links but the sweaking remained. During the install it was noticed that the plastic clip guide on the passenger side was busted. Until i replaced the FS the creaking did not go away. My mechanic told me the FS ends up cracking over time, causing the issue. A neuspeed replacement is very affordable IMO. :beer:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

corradojohnt said:


> I had replaced my bushing and end links but the sweaking remained. During the install it was noticed that the plastic clip guide on the passenger side was busted. Until i replaced the FS the creaking did not go away. My mechanic told me the FS ends up cracking over time, causing the issue. A neuspeed replacement is very affordable IMO. :beer:


FS = front sway? I don't want a larger bar in the front as it'll add understeer and I like the understeer gradient I have now.


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## corradojohnt (Sep 16, 2007)

20v master said:


> FS = front sway? I don't want a larger bar in the front as it'll add understeer and I like the understeer gradient I have now.


Sorry for the abbreviation, FS=front sway bar. The neuspeed is only 1mm bigger, pretty negligible IMO at 0.039''. If it matters, my car handles great. GL :beer:


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

20v master said:


> I personally think most of you regulars put too much merit in changing the endlinks and tie rod ends.


Depends on your ride height and road conditions. I have to change my end links yearly because of the abuse they take being pretty low. They start to clunk over bumps when they get worn out.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Neb said:


> Depends on your ride height and road conditions. I have to change my end links yearly because of the abuse they take being pretty low. They start to clunk over bumps when they get worn out.


I can see that. The car I'm dealing with is at stock height, and I live in the south, aka roads aren't bad. That said, I also have almost 240K miles on my GTI which is on original tie rods, but doesn't run a front sway. I'm emailing this thread to Max, hopefully he'll have some input.


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## Neb (Jan 25, 2005)

tie rods and tie rod ends are 2 totally different things. I've never changed tie rods before, just the ends.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

I meant the ends, as like you said, there's nothing to wear out on the solid bar portion.


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## M this 2! (Feb 8, 2012)

The stock nylon is bonded to the bar. It has lips on outter edge to keep bar from moving back and forth. The 20mm bushing is to go over this. If this is removed, you'd need 19mm bushings if they're sitting directly on the bar. You'd then need the clamps shown above to keep it from moving side to side.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

M this 2! said:


> The stock nylon is bonded to the bar. It has lips on outter edge to keep bar from moving back and forth. The 20mm bushing is to go over this. If this is removed, you'd need 19mm bushings if they're sitting directly on the bar. You'd then need the clamps shown above to keep it from moving side to side.


Now we're getting somewhere. If I went down to 19mm bushings with no sleeve, which I did removed when I replaced the bushings since they were both cracked, there still wouldn't be anything to keep the bar from moving. You're saying the tighter clamp would do the trick? Why isn't this a problem on VW MK4s as the swaybar is the same style? Sounds like I'm about to remove the bar instead of fiddling with stupid bushings.

PS. Did your original name get banned or just started over?


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## beeyond (Oct 6, 2008)

20v master said:


> Now we're getting somewhere. If I went down to 19mm bushings with no sleeve, which I did removed when I replaced the bushings since they were both cracked, there still wouldn't be anything to keep the bar from moving. You're saying the tighter clamp would do the trick? Why isn't this a problem on VW MK4s as the swaybar is the same style? Sounds like I'm about to remove the bar instead of fiddling with stupid bushings.
> 
> PS. Did your original name get banned or just started over?


 I have had the same issue for ages and have never figured it out. I originally replaced my OEM bushings due to the cracked plastic piece with the PowerFlex poly bushings. Noise was cured, for maybe a month and the creaking was back. I thought they may have needed to be relubricated, but noticed when I took everything apart I had the same issue you described! My sway bar link/nut had rubbed against the pancake IC pipe and sheered it off. Probably 80k later and the issue still remains. 

I never thought that could be the source of the squeaking noise (as it seems bilateral), but I really have looked into the cause of the noise too far. I've re-lubed the bars multiple times but it always comes back after a while...

have found that when looking at the fsbar the original @ 20 mm is not bad.. went with a 25 mm Front and 21 mm rear dropped a little with yellow koni's and H & R racing springs.... changing out to coil overs adjustable to tighten wheel gap.

check also the ( hard rubber covered in metal front and rear ) that the drive train goes through as the engine mounts tend to sage and puts pressure on the fs bar and will even sit on the bar but for sure will bounce on the fs bar.... 

that hitting of the bar is the only thing I could think could move it that way the bar should not move.... someone is coming out with adjustable front drop links for these cars will find out where they are in testing it....


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## M this 2! (Feb 8, 2012)

VWvortex SUCKS for help and follow up! If you lose your password, there is no way to get it back. No reset, no one to ask for help. I forgot it and after months of NO HELP from the powers that be, made a new name.

the stock swaybar is 19mm w/o the nylon. it's been awhile since i've been under there to see but would definetly say it'd help keep things from moving back and forth with the 20mm bushings out. gave up and got the neuspeed 22mm (smallest of the bigger swaybars) and the 22mm rear bar is the same bias'd as stock front and 19mm rear.


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## beeyond (Oct 6, 2008)

*sway bars*



M this 2! said:


> VWvortex SUCKS for help and follow up! If you lose your password, there is no way to get it back. No reset, no one to ask for help. I forgot it and after months of NO HELP from the powers that be, made a new name.
> 
> the stock swaybar is 19mm w/o the nylon. it's been awhile since i've been under there to see but would definetly say it'd help keep things from moving back and forth with the 20mm bushings out. gave up and got the neuspeed 22mm (smallest of the bigger swaybars) and the 22mm rear bar is the same bias'd as stock front and 19mm rear.


I thought the rear stock sway bar was 14 mm ???? fsb 20 MM ?

agree the 22 mm should stop it from moving . that is a bit scary the bar moving. as the curves is what LIKiiiiiii the most.......


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## M this 2! (Feb 8, 2012)

With a micrometer, rear measured 14mm. front 19mm is bar, 20mm is bushings bonded onto bar.


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## beeyond (Oct 6, 2008)

M this 2! said:


> With a micrometer, rear measured 14mm. front 19mm is bar, 20mm is bushings bonded onto bar.


like the word "bonded" otherwise melted/distorted over time/sealed into a new form LOL

those bad boys should not move....


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## bauch1425 (Jun 29, 2006)

I took my TT into the only shop I trust and had them look at the swaybar issue while the oil was being changed.

While it was on the lift, they noticed that the bar had shifted over to the left quite a bit. I knew it had done this once in the past when I initially removed the plastic cuff on the sway bar due to the sway bar end link nut sheering on the pressure pipe -- but I was not positive if it was a reoccurance. Up on the lift, my mechanic said it had obviously shifted over so he disconnected it, slide it over and regreased it. He said it will probably happen again until I find someway to keep it from sliding over without the original plastic cuffs. 

Might be a suggestion to the rest of you having this issue who have replaced your bushings with the polybushings... It's odd though, as many people run the polybushings without this issue.


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## beeyond (Oct 6, 2008)

*sway bar bushings*



bauch1425 said:


> I took my TT into the only shop I trust and had them look at the swaybar issue while the oil was being changed.
> 
> While it was on the lift, they noticed that the bar had shifted over to the left quite a bit. I knew it had done this once in the past when I initially removed the plastic cuff on the sway bar due to the sway bar end link nut sheering on the pressure pipe -- but I was not positive if it was a reoccurance. Up on the lift, my mechanic said it had obviously shifted over so he disconnected it, slide it over and regreased it. He said it will probably happen again until I find someway to keep it from sliding over without the original plastic cuffs.
> 
> Might be a suggestion to the rest of you having this issue who have replaced your bushings with the polybushings... It's odd though, as many people run the polybushings without this issue.


have no idea why the bushings are not holding first time have heard of this unless bushings to big. what brand name are the bushings??


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Yeah, I haven't found a solution yet, other than trying the 19mm bushings. Currently running 20mm Powerflex as that's what my bar measured with a micrometer.


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## bauch1425 (Jun 29, 2006)

20v master said:


> Yeah, I haven't found a solution yet, other than trying the 19mm bushings. Currently running 20mm Powerflex as that's what my bar measured with a micrometer.


Same thing here. My bar measured 20mm with a micrometer (without the plastic cuffs) and I ordered 20mm Powerflex bushings... this has been going on for probably 3 years or so now. I've e-mailed both TT Stuff and Powerflex and neither claim to have heard of my issue before. I will e-mail Powerflex with this newer information as far as the bar having slid over and see if they have any suggestions.


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