# Passenger Airbag Controller Logic



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Quite recently, someone posted a question asking about what factors the airbag controller looked at when making the decision about whether to arm or deploy the passenger side airbags in the event of a collision. I didn't know the answer at the time I read the post.
I have since come across the following information that addresses the question... but I can't find the original post! So, if some kind soul could aim me back at the original question, I'll merge this post onto the end of the existing thread.
Thanks, Michael
*Eos Passenger Airbag Control Components*


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## PaulZooms (Dec 16, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (PanEuropean)*

Micheal,
I think this is the thread for which you are looking:

Steering wheel emblem..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3006954

It drifted off topic a bit (what a shock!) via package transfer from pasenger seat by occupant in driver seat.
Paul


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

wow, and I thought that was the, er, some sort of charcoal filter to improve cabin air while the top is up!!!


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (PanEuropean)*

My "Passenger Airbag OFF" light has, so far as I recall, never illuminated. According to this article (which may be dated - note "2006 Eos") it should illuminate whenever the seat is empty.
Anyone else have the light always on when no one is in the passenger seat? Or is the article incorrect?


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

I can attest to the fact that the light works... and if someone gets off the car while engine is still running, it blinks a few times, then turns itself on. Same when someone gets in the car with the engine running... Some blinking, light turns on.


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## TURBO PAUL (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (neweosowner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neweosowner* »_My "Passenger Airbag OFF" light has, so far as I recall, never illuminated. According to this article (which may be dated - note "2006 Eos") it should illuminate whenever the seat is empty.
Anyone else have the light always on when no one is in the passenger seat? Or is the article incorrect?

The way VW words it is a little confusing. On your dash it has printed "Passenger Airbag". If there is no occupant in the passenger seat, or one who is under 70 lbs. (that is the weight we are told), the word "OFF" will illuminate next to the words "Passenger Airbag", indictating the passenger dash airbag is disabled. If this does not happen in your car, please take it in to your service department _immediately_.


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (TURBO PAUL)*

Thanks Paul.
After a visit to the parkade, I think I've figured out why I've never seen a message. There's a black plastic cover filling the spot where the "Passenger Airbag" message would appear. Initially I thought that this was just a dark housing for the LED but it's pretty clear that it's a cover, not a display. The cover doesn't seem to be removable (at least not easily).
If any other Canadian owner would care to confirm that this isn't a one-off thing, that would be great.


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## TURBO PAUL (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (neweosowner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neweosowner* »_Thanks Paul.
After a visit to the parkade, I think I've figured out why I've never seen a message. There's a black plastic cover filling the spot where the "Passenger Airbag" message would appear. Initially I thought that this was just a dark housing for the LED but it's pretty clear that it's a cover, not a display. The cover doesn't seem to be removable (at least not easily).
If any other Canadian owner would care to confirm that this isn't a one-off thing, that would be great.

According to the Canadian Eos Spec sheet, right where the US sheet lists PODS, the Canadian one doesn't.








So it must be what you give up to get Homelink.....


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (TURBO PAUL)*

Thanks again Paul.
I don't need a light indicating that the Passenger Airbag is on or off. As long as the system works, I'm happy. Proof most definitely NOT required.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (TURBO PAUL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TURBO PAUL* »_
According to the Canadian Eos Spec sheet, right where the US sheet lists PODS, the Canadian one doesn't.








So it must be what you give up to get Homelink.....


So, the next oblivious question is: Are the airbags in Canadian spec models functionally different, or do they just lack the visual confirmation of on/off status for the passenger air bag??
Kevin


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (neweosowner)*

Do you have the system that turns the airbag off with a key in the glove box? My understanding was that PODS was a US only thing due to the NHTSA laws.


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (neweosowner)*

Here's what it looks like in the states:


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (gilesrulz)*

The U.S. and Canadian laws on disabling passenger air bags appears to be very similar - thou shalt not without written acceptance of the risks. (In Canada, you have to send a letter to Transport Canada...even then the dealer might not let you disable it.) So there's something else at play.
I didn't see anything in the glove box that might allow disabling the air bag (nor should there be by law).


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## TURBO PAUL (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_Do you have the system that turns the airbag off with a key in the glove box? My understanding was that PODS was a US only thing due to the NHTSA laws.

No, what I said is that they do not list the PODS as part of the Canadian airbag system, meaning that the cars are not equipped with it.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (neweosowner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neweosowner* »_The U.S. and Canadian laws on disabling passenger air bags appears to be very similar - thou shalt not without written acceptance of the risks. (In Canada, you have to send a letter to Transport Canada...even then the dealer might not let you disable it.) So there's something else at play.
I didn't see anything in the glove box that might allow disabling the air bag (nor should there be by law).

I'm not certain if temporarily disarming the air bag is the same thing as disabling them. I know some people request the are bags be permanantly disconnected, which requires approval.
I know most new Canadian spec vehicles follow the US regulation of having the sensor in the passenger seat, and with VWoC being essentially a subsidiary of VWoA it would be mildly surprising if they have functionally different air bag systems.
I have made an inquiry about this through VWoC website, but don't hold your breath, they only seem to respond about 20% of the time.
Kevin


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*

Further to above:
I just found the following statement on Transport Canada's website:
*In Canada, it is not mandatory for air bags to be installed in vehicles; however, when they are, they must meet specific safety requirements. Whenever possible, Transport Canada sets standards of performance and does not stipulate that particular hardware be used by manufacturers. In the case of air bags, the Regulations specify vehicle test conditions and injury criteria for the effective protection of occupants.*
I know a few years ago I had a crew cab style pick up and you could not turn off the passenger side air bag, the theory being, you had a back seat for "at risk" occupants that may sustain injury from an air bag. 
My current NA built crew cab has a sensor in the front passenger seat.
It is _*possible*_, and this is only a guess at this time, that given the lack of regulation regarding air bags in Canada, that the Canadian spec EOS has no sensor in the seat, and no way to turn off the passenger side air bag. The rear seat is available for "at risk" occupants.
Having said that, I believe the EOS is equiped with side impact air bags for rear seat occupants. The Transport Canada website offers the following information on protecting children in vehicles equiped with side impact airbags.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety...u.htm
Kevin


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## Canadian Lurker (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (TURBO PAUL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TURBO PAUL* »_
No, what I said is that they do not list the PODS as part of the Canadian airbag system, meaning that the cars are not equipped with it.









Indeed, I tested the seat with my 10 yr old who weighs in at 67 lbs. The "Airbag Off" light did NOT come on whether she was belted in or not.
Looks like another feature difference.








JJ


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (Canadian Lurker)*

Does that mean you have a display/light, but it's non-functional? Or do you have the same blank panel I have?


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## Canadian Lurker (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (neweosowner)*

Sorry Arlyn, I forgot to mention that in the post. Indeed, it is simply a dark panel like yours without the wording on it.
JJ


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## ATLeos (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*

" I believe the EOS is equiped with side impact air bags for rear seat occupants."

From what I have read, the Eos only offers front seat side airbag protection. The rear seats do not have side airbags.


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## ashbinder (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (ATLeos)*

http://www.volkswageneoscar.com/eos_brochure.pdf
Page 6 of this Eos brochure indicates that it's front and rear.
Not sure of this applies to NA versions of the Eos, as they are suitably vague when it talks about this.


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## swordfish1 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (neweosowner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neweosowner* »_
I didn't see anything in the glove box that might allow disabling the air bag (nor should there be by law).


The glove box in the UK..........


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (swordfish1)*

Yup, nothing at all like that in a Canadian Eos, nor do I think there should be in a U.S. Eos. Nor is it allowed in Canada without written approval from the gov't (and I think it's similar in the U.S.). ROW I presume it's there in most (all?) cases.
Thanks for the picture.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (ATLeos)*



ATLeos
From what I have read said:


> Thanks
> Kevin


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (ashbinder)*

In looking at the Safety manual, the side air bag that deploys from the front seats on both driver and passenger side extend mostly "forward" towards the engine, but a little bit "backwards" towards the trunk. I wouldn't call that "front and rear side air bags" but I suppose that others could.
There's nothing I see indicating that there's a side air bag that deploys from the rear seats.
Again, I'm looking at a Canadian 2.0T Eos - others may vary.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (ashbinder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ashbinder* »_http://www.volkswageneoscar.com/eos_brochure.pdf
Page 6 of this Eos brochure indicates that it's front and rear.
Not sure of this applies to NA versions of the Eos, as they are suitably vague when it talks about this.

Canadian brochure and spec sheet only specify front air bags.
Brochure recommends seating children in the rear seats.
Brochure also shows navigation system on the interior photo. Navigation is not available in Canada. 
Hmmmmm....
_just noticed the barely visible notation "US model shown"_
Kevin









_Modified by just4fun at 2:10 PM 1-9-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 2:11 PM 1-9-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
I have made an inquiry about this through VWoC website, but don't hold your breath, they only seem to respond about 20% of the time.


Since VWoC has choosen, once again, to ignore my request for information, I stopped at the Vdub dealer this morning and spoke to my salesperson about the airbags in Canadian spec models.
He confirmed that there is no way to disable the passenger side air bags, not only on the EOS, but as far as he knew, on all current model Canadian spec VW's.
So, for Canadian spec models, the rear seat is the place for car seats, small children, and; packages that don't go in the trunk.
Kevin









_Modified by just4fun at 2:41 PM 1-10-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 4:45 PM 1-10-2007_


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*

Yeah I usually put my small children in the trunk, so it's not really a problem for me.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_Yeah I usually put my small children in the trunk, so it's not really a problem for me.









It really is better that way, the seat back muffles the fighting and complaining, and helps maintain a comfortable noise level in the cabin.
Kevin


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*

Yeah, dog in the back seat, kids in the trunck makes sense to me. I assume you keep the ski pass through closed and locked in this configuration


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_Yeah I usually put my small children in the trunk, so it's not really a problem for me.









But doesn't it get tight when you put the roof down?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (owr084)*


_Quote, originally posted by *owr084* »_But doesn't it get tight when you put the roof down? 

No, it just gets real quiet...
Michael


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (mark_d_drake)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mark_d_drake* »_Yeah, dog in the back seat, kids in the trunck makes sense to me. I assume you keep the ski pass through closed and locked in this configuration









definitely, with the exception of passing through the occasional bottle of water and bread crust.















Kevin


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *just4fun* »_
Since VWoC has choosen, once again, to ignore my request for information, I stopped at the Vdub dealer this morning and spoke to my salesperson about the airbags in Canadian spec models.
He confirmed that there is no way to disable the passenger side air bags, not only on the EOS, but as far as he knew, on all current model Canadian spec VW's.
So, for Canadian spec models, the rear seat is the place for car seats, small children, and; packages that don't go in the trunk.

Interestingly VWoC just sent me this e-mail response to my inquiry.
*Dear Kevin,
Thank you for visiting vw.com. We appreciate your interest in the Volkswagen brand. At this time, the EOS is equipped with our Passenger Occupancy Detection System. This is a weight sensing system for the passengers seat. For information on disabling safety features for your model, we refer you to an authorized Volkswagen dealership. Only authorized Volkswagen dealerships use real Volkswagen parts and have technical knowledge specifically for your Volkswagen. 
Thanks again for stopping by!
Maria
Volktalk*
I have more faith in the info from my dealer than from VWoC. The US spec sheet specifically lists Passenger Occupant Detection System as part of the restraint system. The Canadian spec does not list PODS as part of the restraint system.
Kevin








PS, note that VWoC inquiries are responded to by VWoA, so it is possible they are referencing US specs when responding.

_Modified by just4fun at 4:23 PM 1-20-2007_


_Modified by just4fun at 4:23 PM 1-20-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*

The latest response from VWoC regarding Passenger Occupant Detection System on Canadian Spec EOS.
*Dear Kevin,
Thanks for visiting the Volkswagen website. 
Unfortunately, Passenger Occupancy Detections System (PODS) is not an
available option in the Canadian market. 
Thanks again for stopping by!
Darnel
Volktalk*
Kevin


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*

Thanks for chasing down various answers to the question.








So, without PODS I presume that in the case of a crash requiring the deployment of the driver's side front and/or side airbag, the passenger side front airbag will deploy regardless of whether there is a passenger (and perhaps the side airbag for good measure?). Is that your read of the situation? Or have I got this wrong?
It's useful to know how it doesn't work, even more useful to know how it does work.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (neweosowner)*

Yes, that is exactly the same way I understand the system would work on Canadian spec cars. Your owners manual doesn't, by chance, provide any information as to whether or not the passenger air back can be switched off/on?? I would be surprised if you can, my experience with past vehicles is, if there is a rear seat for passengers, you can't switch off the air bag.
It is interesting that Canadian regulations do not require airbags installed on autos. Therefore one can assume the only reason we have airbags in Canada is due to consumer demand, but this allows the manufacture to install airbags with minimal technology to reduce manufacturing costs. (not convinced we see that reflected in the MSRP?)
I'm sure VW isn't the only manufacture supplying vehicles in Canada equiped this way. Hopefully every driver in Canada reads their owners manual, fully understands the operation of the safety equipment installed, and keeps their kids, dogs, packages, etc. in the rear seat.
Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 5:34 PM 1-26-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Passenger Airbag Controller Logic (just4fun)*

Just got a call from VWoC with a response to my question about the operation of the airbags on Canadian Spec VW's including the Eos.
As indicated on the production codes list, the Eos is equipped with two stage airbags.
Canadian Spec VW's are not equipped with Passenger Occupation Detection System as they are in the US. (we had pretty much determined that already)
The two stage deployment is linked to seat belt usage, and operates the same way on both the driver and passenger side airbags.
In the event that collision conditions/parametrs are met that would trigger deployment of the airbags:
1. If the seat belt is not fastened (driver and/or passenger) the airbags deploy with timing, velocity, etc. in a manner that will attempt to provide *Primary Restraint* to the occupant of that seat. (Note: airbags are not intended to provide primary restraint, but apparently because some of us don't have that figured out yet, VW is doing what they can to protect our sorry butts)
2. If the seat belt is fastened (driver and/or passenger) then the controller logic will adjust the deployment of the airbags (timing, velocity, etc) to act as a *Secondary Restraint* for the occupant of that seat. (Seatbelt = primary, Airbag = secondary)
So....
The passenger airbags in Canadian Spec VW's are in fact activated and ready for deployment 100% of the time. If the drivers side airbag is triggered, the passenger airbag will deploy regardless if an occupant is present or not.
They will detect the use of a seat belt, but not specifically the presence of an occupant.
If the seat belt is not fastened, the logic will assume an occupant is present, but not using the seat belt, and if triggered, the airbag will deploy as a primary restraint.
If the seat belt is fastened, the logic will adjust the deployment of the airbag to provide secondary restraint.
It is my understanding that the airbag logic is independant for each seat. If one occupant is belted, and the other is not, the airbags will deploy independant of each other to provide the correct measure of restraint.
Now we know for certain how the airbags function. Be sure to follow the instructions in the owners manual regarding occupant size and age, and the placement of foreign objects on the passenger seat.
Kevin


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