# Frankenturbo



## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I read in another forum that they are doing some testing on an fsi to make an affordable option between k04 and bt using stock injectors. 

I don't know much about them but it sounded interesting. I went to their page but it kept crashing on my work computer. 

It looks like they are a sponsor here so maybe they can talk a bit about this product?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> I read in another forum that they are doing some testing on an fsi to make an affordable option between k04 and bt using stock injectors.
> 
> I don't know much about them but it sounded interesting. I went to their page but it kept crashing on my work computer.
> 
> It looks like they are a sponsor here so maybe they can talk a bit about this product?


I'm the member on the other forum you saw getting it installed. I've been busy at work but a thread on this forum will be created soon. Sit tight, I'll be able to provide more details that way :thumbup:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Since this thread was already created it's almost pointless to create another with the same title. Well here goes, I contacted Frankenturbo (Doug) about a month ago regarding the F23T kit. He was very informative and helpful regarding this new upcoming kit. He expressed that since i'm local to where he resides if I was interested in being part of a testing phase for this prototype kit. I agreed and drove to Force Fed Engineering in Deer Park, NY (Ed you the man!). Definitely top notch shop if you're in the area and need work done go there no job to small, the man is a beast when it comes to custom fabrication! So my car was baselined with the Stage 2+ APR software and then baselined with Eurodyne software to compare. Dyno #'s with whp were slightly higher with Eurodyne, i'm sure since you can tweak it. I opted in getting a spare ECM to do this testing since incase things did not work out for me I can always revert back to APR, thanks to CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi for helping me get the 2nd ECM  . So the F23T was installed and a rough draft file was put together, this is all the info I got so far but soon enough all of it will be in place with a refined tune. Media, photo, etc, will be posted once a more finalized product is available, I hope you guys stay tuned! :wave:

Mods are in my Sig, here's the APR Baseline:











Here's a few shots of the F23T upgrade and install :




























Here's the rough draft file that was put together, it will be refined soon enough with help of C. Tapp. from Eurodyne


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## FinderRO (Sep 17, 2012)

Interesting... 
We're you able to use your existing downpipe with this setup?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

FinderRO said:


> Interesting...
> We're you able to use your existing downpipe with this setup?


 Yup!


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

How does the price of this compare to a typical k04 kit?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> How does the price of this compare to a typical k04 kit?


 Well with all K04 kits out there on the FSI platform they are paired with S3 injectors which can be quite expensive. Apart from that it will add on labor since they have to remove the manifold to get to the injectors. If you visit http://www.frankenturbo.com/new/F23T.html price is suggesting $1,299. Do some homework on all available kits and you'll see this is a good deal for more power than a K04!


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

So the idea is that you can use stock hpfp, stock injectors, this turbo, a downpipe of your choice, and just need a tune?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> So the idea is that you can use stock hpfp, stock injectors, this turbo, a downpipe of your choice, and just need a tune?


 A HPFP is a must, you can buy injectors if you want. I chose to use stock injectors but with a higher rated rail valve from the RS4. The tune, has to be custom since no one really has a file yet for this turbo. Hopefully when it's all said and done my car's Eurodyne file can be used as a file to include with this kit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Tutti57 said:


> So the idea is that you can use stock hpfp, stock injectors, this turbo, a downpipe of your choice, and just need a tune?


 No. The idea is to use an upgraded high pressure fuel pump (such as by APR, AutoTech, KMD or hpfp.com), stock injectors & stock fuel rail pressure relief valve. Right now we're testing a car with the pump plus a high-pressure valve taken from the Audi RS4 parts bin. This valve allows as much as 135bar fuel rail pressure without cracking open. But thus far, we're seeing good Lambdas while running only 120-125bar, which would make the stock rail valve suitable.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Is there any interest yet to create a remap for those already having the K04, RS4 fprv, and S3 injectors? So those with a K04 could switch to the F23T when facing future K04 failure. 

Also hoping to see soon the results after some tune modification...I don't like the way that torque line looks above, but b/c I'm used to seeing strong torque in the early rev's. I know that this is preliminary so hanging on here.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

ROH ECHT said:


> Is there any interest yet to create a remap for those already having the K04, RS4 fprv, and injectors? So those with a K04 could switch to the F23T when facing future K04 failure.
> 
> Also hoping to see soon the results after some tune modification...I don't like the way that torque line looks above, but b/c I'm used to seeing strong torque in the early rev's. I know that this is preliminary so hanging on here.


 That was a rough draft, the other dyno sheet I have is nice but definitely more suitable for folks with rods. Doug , Fabien (FFE) are working with C. Tapp from Eurodyne and are creating a more rod friendly tune that will have a nice HP and Torque curve! I'll post once available, I promise.


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## MyNaMeIzGaBe (Nov 1, 2011)

In for more


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Latest word from Doug (frankenturbo) my car just hit 349.3whp and 308tq at 25PSI. Torque sort of drops at about 6k Rpms, goal is to keep the torque nice and smooth till at least 6500k rpm. I'll continue to update as more info comes along.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice! I'm interested in hearing about the drivability too.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Seems like a more feasible option over GT28. Nice! Id be interested in switching to this K04.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Not having to go S3 injectors saves time and installation. Looks great!


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

I do hope to see some progress, after the primary focus, with set-ups already consisting of an hpfp upgrade, RS4 fprv, and S3 injectors. I would hate if the only option to try the F23T would mean that I'd have to go back to oem injectors, and hpfp...plus a custom tune. Then in that case, I'd likely choose another K04...right?


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

It sounds like you would still keep your hpfp and switch injectors and custom tune. 

Or maybe you could keep all of the hardware and just get a custom tune?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

ROH ECHT said:


> I do hope to see some progress, after the primary focus, with set-ups already consisting of an hpfp upgrade, RS4 fprv, and S3 injectors. I would hate if the only option to try the F23T would mean that I'd have to go back to oem injectors, and hpfp...plus a custom tune. Then in that case, I'd likely choose another K04...right?


 You can hang on to the S3's it's not a big deal. The tune will be the prime factor on how the car will behave.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iil5i6Ad9U&list=UULBnwv8P7HF4Nv5wM0k19Dg&index=1 


opcorn:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

We've just updated our product page to include added stock-injector testing data. Here are a couple of graphs showing the fueling system's ability to support increased hp: 



















This data was collected while running a 120bar command pressure. That's right. Not 140bar. not even 130bar. Credit goes to C.Tapp at Eurodyne for defining a file which can support over 350bhp on stock injectors and stock fuel rail valve. That's a $1000 savings in one blow.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Tutti57 said:


> It sounds like you would still keep your hpfp and switch injectors and custom tune.
> 
> Or maybe you could keep all of the hardware and just get a custom tune?


 Yes...just a tune with the F23T.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm wondering now if the K04 hardware wouldn't hurt the F23t set-up as is, right? But there may be a bit of advantage having the hardware if one were to customize the tune from the stock fueling tune, yes?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

ROH ECHT said:


> I'm wondering now if the K04 hardware wouldn't hurt the F23t set-up as is, right? But there may be a bit of advantage having the hardware if one were to customize the tune from the stock fueling tune, yes?


 Well yea i'm sure you can squeeze some more power but won't be in a safe territory with stock rods.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

That's cool b/c I plan on new rods either way..it looks like there is more available power, after rods, with the F23T than there would be staying with a K04, rods, and Euro K04 tune.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

ROH ECHT said:


> That's cool b/c I plan on new rods either way..it looks like there is more available power, after rods, with the F23T than there would be staying with a K04, rods, and Euro K04 tune.


 342whp and 305 torque is fine with me personally. It outperforms an APR Stage 3 kit and costs thousands less! Getting rods and tweaking the tune will probably yield you like 20 more whp and 30-40wtq. I don't think it's that worth it to get them installed. If you get rods get rods for a way larger turbo and goals way above what the F23T has to offer.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

in for more! 

will this kit be direct bolt on? such as an APR ko4? 
to get the tune would the ecu have to be sent to the factory to get flashed?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

pb4life545 said:


> in for more!
> 
> will this kit be direct bolt on? such as an APR ko4?
> to get the tune would the ecu have to be sent to the factory to get flashed?


 The install is direct bolt on just like any K04 out there. The tune was done via Eurodyne Maestro, i'm sure something can be worked out. Please contact [email protected] for more info.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

A3Performance said:


> The install is direct bolt on just like any K04 out there. The tune was done via Eurodyne Maestro, i'm sure something can be worked out. Please contact [email protected] for more info.


 What are the hp results for a direct bolt-on...minus the hpfp upgrade that you have? 
This is supposed to be a direct bolt-on turbo upgrade with remap, but no fueling or internal changes needed, right? What is the power one is to expect with the F23T with just a bolt-on and remap, minus an hpfp upgrade? I believe no fueling changes was the initial focus, which would be nice given the c/f issues, but why wasn't there one F23T installed on an oem hpfp 2.0t fsi yet? 
A3Performance's A3 has an upgraded hpfp, but I don't know of any other samples out there...so are there any...?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

We haven't yet tested this turbo on completely stock fueling. My assumption has always been that if an HPFP upgrade is necessary for a relatively modest, stock turbo Stage2 file, then it's certainly going to be for a 100whp upgrade from that. I think you have to plan for an upgraded pump, the parts for which start at $330 nowadays and continue to drop in cost.


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## integragsr423 (Sep 12, 2008)

Keep me posted n put me down for an order Been waiting for something like this 
I have giac now i assume i would have to get a new tune if u guys come out with a package that would be awesome..Also is that dyno with a stock intake and exhaust ..Cuz i i have evoms evolution 
intake 3" catless downpipe so i would assume the gains would be higher keep up the good work...


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## ChunkyCkn (Mar 16, 2004)

x2


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## Fahrenheit340 (Aug 27, 2012)

I blew my stock turbo yesterday. When will we see this ready to ship out in a package deal with reflash?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

integragsr423 said:


> Keep me posted n put me down for an order Been waiting for something like this
> I have giac now i assume i would have to get a new tune if u guys come out with a package that would be awesome..Also is that dyno with a stock intake and exhaust ..Cuz i i have evoms evolution
> intake 3" catless downpipe so i would assume the gains would be higher keep up the good work...


 The mods are in my sig..


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

In the pics on tr website I see the dv on the turbo in the stock location. Can it stay there installed or does it have to be relocated?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> In the pics on tr website I see the dv on the turbo in the stock location. Can it stay there installed or does it have to be relocated?


 What you see in the pics while being installed on my car is basically what you're going to get.


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

Great stuff!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm curious what the price will be for the Frakenturbo all said and done. I'd love to see a "packaged" version like what other manufactures have done (awe, apr, etc) that includes all the necessary junk to complete the conversion.


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

outstanding...nice to see a cost-effective option out there. 

For those of us that were looking at moving to a K04 in the near future...this is a VERY attractive option.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Tutti57 said:


> In the pics on tr website I see the dv on the turbo in the stock location. Can it stay there installed or does it have to be relocated?


 The FrankenTurbo is as pure a "bolt on upgrade" as you're going to get. It is a direct swap for your current K03, right down to the uprated 710-series diverter valve in the stock location. There is no "relocation kit" needed. The only non-stock component will be the (included) charge pipe connector, which will allow you to fit the turbo to your OEM intercooler piping. These design features reflect the product brief we developed for this two years ago when we began work on the project: 



Better performance than a K04 

Lower total cost than a K04 

 

If you look on our product pages you will see how the F23T will install more simply and quickly than a K04 swap. For those of you going to a shop for the work, you are now looking at the lower hourly quote you'd expect in a kind-for-kind K03 swap. And as for better power, well... 











And if the concept hasn't completely sunk in yet: these numbers are on the same injectors you have in your car now. Again: unbeatable value. :thumbup:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

sooooooo.... glad I didnt pull the trigger on a bt or k04. This is EXACTLY the solution I was looking for. Any idea ball figure on cost yet (everything needed except labor)? Is it the same as listed on the site? How about with software?


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Doug. I really like the smooth powerband. When you tune, I assume you have the boost kick in a lot smoother as the OEM K04 can be spikey. What are safe power figures for stock rods? Looking at this instead of GT28.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I cannot wait to run this setup. 

This + HPFP + tune. Count me in. 

Only thing I need to do is find a local tuner/shop for this..


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

We shot a load of video over the course of testing this first car at FFE Racing. Here is Part 1, which covers baseline data for the car as it was delivered by the owner.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Can any eurodyne dealer flash the software and what do you expect the software to go for? When do you plan on having the software finalized? 

Also I'm currently running a Golf R intercooler, will that suffice initially until I can upgrade....again.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> Any idea ball figure on cost yet (everything needed except labor)? Is it the same as listed on the site? How about with software?


 Pricing for the turbo will almost certainly be at our estimated $1299 price. At introduction we'll be doing a price promotion on Eurodyne Maestro, which would allow you to flash your car to the F23T base file being finalized by C.Tapp. After flashing the base file, Maestro of course allows you to make tweaks in accordance with your particular setup. 

Later on, we hope to have additional support from other tuners, which would allow their local dealers to offer complete pricing. 

Lastly, I very much appreciate the input you guys have been offering. A separate thread on golf5.com has also been full of insights for us. If you've got an idea or suggestion, post it up. :beer:


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

So what boost numbers are you looking at for this kit? And will It hold throughout the powerband. Unlike the stupid ko3 drop off right after like 4500 at the most


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

Really interested in the potential for those of us with the Ko4 and all the accompanying mods..seems like 400hp isn't all that far off...with Rods of course


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

pb4life545 said:


> So what boost numbers are you looking at for this kit? And will It hold throughout the powerband. Unlike the stupid ko3 drop off right after like 4500 at the most


 Boost begins to rise at that point in the power band. This is why the torque curve follows the 300whtq target for so long. You can see it in this video:


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Can any eurodyne dealer flash the software and what do you expect the software to go for? When do you plan on having the software finalized?
> 
> Also I'm currently running a Golf R intercooler, will that suffice initially until I can upgrade....again.


 Good question. What are the intercooler recommendations? Would an s3 suffice?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> Good question. What are the intercooler recommendations? Would an s3 suffice?


 I personally feel you would eventually would want a larger more efficient intercooler down the road.


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

I'm subscribing to this thread for future info. 

really looking forward to support down the road from other tuners, as well as seeing how far the stock injectors can be pushed. i picked up a spare FSI long block and am doing rods in it anyway. It'll probably be a year before get all the parts for it (wife wants to remodel the basement this summer ). But this is making me have second thoughts on getting a GT28 for it.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Thanks for replying to the questions and concerns. Customer service is a big consideration for a lot of us when taking a leap into bigger turbos/software. Seems like you guys are doing everything you can to have a successful launch of this product. 

I really want to be the first west coast guy! Let me know when it'll be available out here! There is even a well recognized tuning facility just down the road! (Portland speed industries).


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> Thanks for replying to the questions and concerns. Customer service is a big consideration for a lot of us when taking a leap into bigger turbos/software. Seems like you guys are doing everything you can to have a successful launch of this product.
> 
> I really want to be the first west coast guy! Let me know when it'll be available out here!


 Yes and I agree communication is key with any vendor. Doug has been outstanding and has gone above and beyond with me. The guys at Force Fed Engineering (FFE) have been great as well, I definitely recommend if anyone is in the Tri-state area and are looking to get work done, go there!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> Doug. I really like the smooth powerband. When you tune, I assume you have the boost kick in a lot smoother as the OEM K04 can be spikey. What are safe power figures for stock rods? Looking at this instead of GT28.


 Horsepower you can do 400hp crank, it's torque that bends rods. Hence why they opted in keeping torque to low 300's and 340's whp. Way more than any FSI k04 can do, and quite frankly more than APR's own stage 3 kits that has a price tag of $6k!! :laugh:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Horsepower you can do 400hp crank, it's torque that bends rods. Hence why they opted in keeping torque to low 300's and 340's whp. Way more than any FSI k04 can do, and quite frankly more than APR's own stage 3 kits that has a price tag of $6k!! :laugh:


 quit gloating!


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

363lb*ft and rod safe to date done when actual boost was 3psi below specified 










WHP a week prior without torque due to them being unfamiliar with the dsg


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

ROH ECHT said:


> 363lb*ft and rod safe to date


 Thank you for showing a PSI dyno... now we can have a baseline for the dyno (on the same dyno) between a fraken and a k04.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

by the way ROH... PSI is about 5 mins from my house if you ever make it out this way again.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

I am going again after the new lpfp goes in and I check to see if all data looks good to put it on the dyno-Jet again. Do you go to any gtg's like the Tuesday night at Old Chicago or the Saturday C&C in LO? I went to PSI's open house or anniversary gtg a year or two ago.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Brokenparts said:


> Thank you for showing a PSI dyno... now we can have a baseline for the dyno (on the same dyno) between a fraken and a k04.


 I wouldn't consider this a prime example as boost was only peaking at 17 and 18 psi at the time. This is right after the K04 was installed and I rushed over there before having vcds or a boost gage. I got my cable shortly after these runs and found out where boost was. I haven't been back on the dyno since. Right now everything is running great except that my low fuel pressure is dropping to right at 4bar near redline, but good enough. I should dyno again before and after the new lpfp, so maybe heading there soon if I can make up my mind to go once or twice.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

ROH ECHT said:


> 363lb*ft and rod safe to date done when actual boost was 3psi below specified


 think you can get the original WinPep Dynojet .drf data file from PSI? That would allow an overlay to the F23T's graph.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

I'm really curious here but 363ft lbs, is not rod safe at all. Are you currently driving around like that?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

ROH ECHT said:


> I wouldn't consider this a prime example as boost was only peaking at 17 and 18 psi at the time. This is right after the K04 was installed and I rushed over there before having vcds or a boost gage. I got my cable shortly after these runs and found out where boost was. I haven't been back on the dyno since. Right now everything is running great except that my low fuel pressure is dropping to right at 4bar near redline, but good enough. I should dyno again before and after the new lpfp, so maybe heading there soon if I can make up my mind to go once or twice.


 Pick up one of the TT-RS LPFP or an R32 LPFP.. Won't have anymore Low side starving issues.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

ROH ECHT said:


> I am going again after the new lpfp goes in and I check to see if all data looks good to put it on the dyno-Jet again. Do you go to any gtg's like the Tuesday night at Old Chicago or the Saturday C&C in LO? I went to PSI's open house or anniversary gtg a year or two ago.


 Still getting into the VW scene but I will start hitting the gtg's pretty soon. Especially when I have something to show off. lol


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> quit gloating!


  :laugh:


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> think you can get the original WinPep Dynojet .drf data file from PSI? That would allow an overlay to the F23T's graph.


 I believe I can...


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

A3Performance said:


> Pick up one of the TT-RS LPFP or an R32 LPFP.. Won't have anymore Low side starving issues.


 I was thinking this one...but really just looking for a drop-in replacement and upgrade with no fuss. 

http://uspmotorsports.com/UpgradedIntankFuelPump.html


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Nope, this one.. http://uspmotorsports.com/USP-Motorsports-Low-Pressure-Fuel-System.html 

It's an OEM TT-RS pump, USP sells it and they rub off the part # :thumbdown: , then they modify one of the hoses from AWD set up to a FWD. Search around you can definitely get it cheaper than what USP sells it.


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

A3Performance said:


> Pick up one of the TT-RS LPFP or an R32 LPFP.. Won't have anymore Low side starving issues.


 The R32 one has the fuel level float in a different position so it doesn't read quite right in a Gti.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

MFZERO said:


> The R32 one has the fuel level float in a different position so it doesn't read quite right in a Gti.


 Thanks for the clarification. I do know the TT-RS will work, with slight modification.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Um... We're waiting.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Sorry about that guys, I was beyond exhausted yesterday evening. So to answer brokenparts question, it begins to really pull strong at about 3k rpm all the way to redline. For those who still own a K03 you know about that dreaded 5k marker where this car literally goes dormant. Well all of that is no longer present, this thing across 3rd and 4th gear really screams.. At one point while driving it civil, I didn't realize I was doing about 110mph, it was just that smooth. Now I've never driven a K04 car before on the FSI platform and like to do some test runs especially on video to show off the power of this Frankenturbo. I know the dyno graphs and logs prove just how efficient this setup really is. I will promise to continue updating you guys as the days come along, right now i'm late to work!


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Awesome. Excited to hear more!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> Awesome. Excited to hear more!


 Will report back, once I drive it a bit more.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

What clutch setup are you running and how's it holding up?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> What clutch setup are you running and how's it holding up?


 Still on the original stock clutch holding up well! :thumbup:


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

Also curious to see how it affects your average MPG once you settle in and start driving normally again.....


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

TurboChrisB said:


> Also curious to see how it affects your average MPG once you settle in and start driving normally again.....


 The file is pretty smooth now, I personally don't feel MPG will really go down hill. Then again, the excitement of having this worthy upgrade can make anyone grow a lead foot.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I'm schocked youre on the stock clutch holding that much torque!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I'm schocked youre on the stock clutch holding that much torque!


 So was I trust me, when I was talking with FFE at the time of pick-up we went over the runs and data. I questioned them on the reliability of my OEM clutch, overall they were impressed on how well the car completely held up with zero issues with all their testing.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I got my car CPO at 29k miles so who knows what the PO did w/ the clutch. But I flashed to APR stage 1, and it slips under WOT. Getting it replaced as I type this. 

At least I'll be ready for this kit when it comes out.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I got my car CPO at 29k miles so who knows what the PO did w/ the clutch. But I flashed to APR stage 1, and it slips under WOT. Getting it replaced as I type this.
> 
> At least I'll be ready for this kit when it comes out.


 What clutch did you buy?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Southbend stage 2. Street I think it's called. Not endurance or race. 

Also got the fluidampr pulley. 

Having my rear main seal replaced while everything's apart and transmission flushed and filled. 

Painful amount of money to spend.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Southbend stage 2. Street I think it's called. Not endurance or race.
> 
> Also got the fluidampr pulley.
> 
> ...


 I can only imagine, break in that clutch properly and it should be worth it.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> I can only imagine, break in that clutch properly and it should be worth it.


 
Yeah, I put 15 miles on it tonight already. Feels excellent. Great local shop, glad to have those guys around. They work with Frankenturbo, have experience w/ Eurodyne too. Gonna go F23T when it's available to public and have these guys toss it in. 

Should be a great combo, super hyped.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Yeah, I put 15 miles on it tonight already. Feels excellent. Great local shop, glad to have those guys around. They work with Frankenturbo, have experience w/ Eurodyne too. Gonna go F23T when it's available to public and have these guys toss it in.
> 
> Should be a great combo, super hyped.




SWEET! where is the shop located? I hope after my file is finally finalized it can be available to you guys.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

HS Tuning in Ohio.

Really glad they are local. Super smart guys, great prices.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> HS Tuning in Ohio.
> 
> Really glad they are local. Super smart guys, great prices.


:thumbup:


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

So this turbo is not really worth it if you have a K04 setup right? I have seen several cars at 330whp 380wtq.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I don't think it would make sense to go from k04 to this, personally. It's a lateral movement as far as power goes for the most part.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Back to basics for a minute. The Frankenturbo is a standard k04 hot side (or not) mated to what compressor side (have no idea what a F23T indicates)? 

I'm also a bit old school and out of date when it comes to turbos. I don't really know the size/onset/capabilities of say a GT28, 3071 ect (apparently great strides have been made since my last t3/t4 95 DSM) but I'm fairly familiar with old garrett (T25/T3/T4) and mitsubishi's (14b/16g/20G). In old school terms this turbo is about as capable as what (please don't refer me to the compressor maps on the website lol).


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Serrari said:


> So this turbo is not really worth it if you have a K04 setup right? I have seen several cars at 330whp 380wtq.


Those are some dyno sheets I'd like to see. In my experience, the K04 turbo on FSI motors struggles to produce 300 to the wheels. Anything above that would require race gas and a happy, happy dyno.

Speaking of dynos, here is a video showing performance of the F23T while boosting at actuator pressure. In this instance, the K03 software on the car was modified for a full 140bar of fuel rail pressure. This is a good 10bar higher than you'd see on a typical "Stage 2 HPFP" file. In later videos, we'll see that 140bar isn't even necessary for 50+ more wheel hp. But at the time, we were being very cautious with fueling.







It will be interesting to find out if these turbos can be successfully run at actuator pressure on K03 software. Our first test car struggled to fuel adequately, but this one certainly showed potential for a good 40whp gain by simply swapping in the F23T turbo set to run on actuator pressure.


----------



## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

I imagine this turbo would run good on a normal K04 tune. Probably make better power.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> I imagine this turbo would run good on a normal K04 tune. Probably make better power.


I disagree, K04 tune requires injectors to be upgraded and usually runs at a different rail pressure. F23T and OEM injectors on the right tune will yield better #'s than any K04 out there.


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> I disagree, K04 tune requires injectors to be upgraded and usually runs at a different rail pressure. F23T and OEM injectors on the right tune will yield better #'s than any K04 out there.


By better power I meant more than running a normal K04 on the same tune with the required hardware.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SickTRed08FSI said:


> By better power I meant more than running a normal K04 on the same tune with the required hardware.


Ok I can see why your questioning and that's fine. But quite frankly your on a REVO tune and they've tuned your car with RS4's. My car may have an RS4 valve because I installed way before but with this upgrade its not needed. If you dyno your car, I will promise it probably my wont exceed 300whp unless you have a "happy" dyno. I've been driving my car now
For a few days with this upgrade and all I gotta say is OMG!! it's night and day to a stage 2+ car... It literally moves in such a way that its indescribable.. So f'n fast, wow!! This thing is no joke, I literally get cocky and mess around with the local porches, 335's and till this day I'm straight spanking these fools!! This F23T is the truth, I feel if you are still on a K03 and on the fence of the next big thing, this is it!!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Ok I can see why your questioning and that's fine. But quite frankly your on a REVO tune and they've tuned your car with RS4's. My car may have an RS4 valve because I installed way before but with this upgrade its not needed. If you dyno your car, I will promise it probably my wont exceed 300whp unless you have a "happy" dyno. I've been driving my car now
> For a few days with this upgrade and all I gotta say is OMG!! it's night and day to a stage 2+ car... It literally moves in such a way that its indescribable.. So f'n fast, wow!! This thing is no joke, I literally get cocky and mess around with the local porches, 335's and till this day I'm straight spanking these fools!! This F23T is the truth, I feel if you are still on a K03 and on the fence of the next big thing, this is it!!


:banghead:

I'm over the fence.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

In a nutshell, if I spent what most people spent on a cookie cutter K04 kit. I would be beyond furious, Doug has the best streetable turbokit for the FSI. I don't care what anyone says, rod friendly.. WHP at that price, don't gotta upgrade your injectors come on now? If you think that's not good enough for you, please go kick rocks!


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> Ok I can see why your questioning and that's fine. But quite frankly your on a REVO tune and they've tuned your car with RS4's. My car may have an RS4 valve because I installed way before but with this upgrade its not needed. If you dyno your car, I will promise it probably my wont exceed 300whp unless you have a "happy" dyno. I've been driving my car now
> For a few days with this upgrade and all I gotta say is OMG!! it's night and day to a stage 2+ car... It literally moves in such a way that its indescribable.. So f'n fast, wow!! This thing is no joke, I literally get cocky and mess around with the local porches, 335's and till this day I'm straight spanking these fools!! This F23T is the truth, I feel if you are still on a K03 and on the fence of the next big thing, this is it!!


Haha, don't get too crazy against those 335's a proper one with some bolts on will still pull cars on you; otherwise glad you are enjoying the new power so much.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

fusionti said:


> Haha, don't get too crazy against those 335's a proper one with some bolts on will still pull cars on you; otherwise glad you are enjoying the new power so much.


I disagree my friend, but thank you for the kind words.. I already gave 3 of them in less than a week their asses! Do me a favor go price out an APR stage 3 kit which includes a GT28RS with their modified S3's that have failed. That kit costs over 5 grand and I still put more WHP then them anyday of the week. This thing is no joke fast, I'm really excited that I am part of this pro type phase, once this kit is finalized, you guys will really get a chance to play with the big boys!


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## Serrari (Jun 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Those are some dyno sheets I'd like to see. In my experience, the K04 turbo on FSI motors struggles to produce 300 to the wheels. Anything above that would require race gas and a happy, happy dyno.
> 
> Speaking of dynos, here is a video showing performance of the F23T while boosting at actuator pressure. In this instance, the K03 software on the car was modified for a full 140bar of fuel rail pressure. This is a good 10bar higher than you'd see on a typical "Stage 2 HPFP" file. In later videos, we'll see that 140bar isn't even necessary for 50+ more wheel hp. But at the time, we were being very cautious with fueling.
> 
> It will be interesting to find out if these turbos can be successfully run at actuator pressure on K03 software. Our first test car struggled to fuel adequately, but this one certainly showed potential for a good 40whp gain by simply swapping in the F23T turbo set to run on actuator pressure.


Made 327whp on my Leon Cupra and 329whp on my Audi TT with a K04 setup both with +370wtq. I now have an Audi TTS and was looking for a good upgrade that doesnt involve a lot of work, this Frankenturbo makes around the same maybe a little more than a well setup K04.

EDIT: Found one graph of my Cupra this was not the best run but you get the idea:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm curios how a fwd car is going to handle the FT?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

cant wait to get this! so much win:beer::beer:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Serrari said:


> Made 327whp on my Leon Cupra and 329whp on my Audi TT with a K04 setup both with +370wtq. I now have an Audi TTS and was looking for a good upgrade that doesnt involve a lot of work, this Frankenturbo makes around the same maybe a little more than a well setup K04.


I'm pretty sure this frankenturbo is capable of 400whp. I have no rods so the tune is conservative. I saw one run hit 358whp, but torque was about 335wtq and I chose to back off when the tuning took place. I want a more conservative tune that is streetable, rod friendly and still exceeds K04 #'s. Now your #'s are impressive the only thing is after 310ft lbs of TQ you can bend an FSI rod. I'm planning on getting rods and injectors this summer and taking this kit that is already amazing to a whole new level... Stay tuned!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> I'm curios how a fwd car is going to handle the FT?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


It's handling we'll actually the powerband is ideal for street. What I mean by that is that Nasty torque spike you get from a stage 2+ car is no longer there. The turbo spools at 3k and hits hard all the way down to 7700rpm. The dyno's and logs have proven that this setup on a FWD car with OEM injectors is the next big thing!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> It's handling we'll actually the powerband is ideal for street. What I mean by that is that Nasty torque spike you get from a stage 2+ car is no longer there. The turbo spools at 3k and hits hard all the way down to 7700rpm. The dyno's and logs have proven that this setup on a FWD car with OEM injectors is the next big thing!



I keep trying to throw you curve balls.... and you keep hitting them out of the park.


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## abqgti37 (Aug 30, 2011)

Wonder how long a stock head would last with constant rev up to 7700 RPM?


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

abqgti37 said:


> Wonder how long a stock head would last with constant rev up to 7700 RPM?


I have mine setup to 7800rpm on my 30r setup with a stock head and never had a problem. Beat on the car daily. There are some guys on golfmkv that have a lot of miles on their heads with that redline. My built head will be good for 8k. should be fun!!!

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

skyrolla89 said:


> I have mine setup to 7800rpm on my 30r setup with a stock head and never had a problem. Beat on the car daily. There are some guys on golfmkv that have a lot of miles on their heads with that redline. My built head will be good for 8k. should be fun!!!
> 
> Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2


I thank your feed back, I'm thinking now what does it feel like now to go GT35r!!'


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Anyone who buys this turbo for me will receive a beautiful fruit basket and a lovely card from me. PM if you're interested.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> I'm pretty sure this frankenturbo is capable of 400whp.


With only one car tuned, I might be too quick to dampen spirits but I suspect 350whp is going to be about the limit. 340-350 on pump gas. As for what's possible on WMI, that's something we'll be testing.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> With only one car tuned, I might be too quick to dampen spirits but I suspect 350whp is going to be about the limit. 340-350 on pump gas. As for what's possible on WMI, that's something we'll be testing.



sweet, a w/m tune would be excellent.


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

ETA on bring this to market as a complete package? 




[email protected] said:


> With only one car tuned, I might be too quick to dampen spirits but I suspect 350whp is going to be about the limit. 340-350 on pump gas. As for what's possible on WMI, that's something we'll be testing.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

TurboChrisB said:


> ETA on bring this to market as a complete package?


We're planning on early May, with a "soft opening" through April of products going to beta testers and tuners. If that sounds like a kind of pokey pace, keep in mind that we're targeting the REPAIR market for the F23T. It is a direct-fit replacement for a K03, making it more appealing than a K04 would be at repair time.


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

Nice, I am so ready for this. Just when I thought my car was starting to get a little boring....this is exactly what it needs to get me by for the next year or two. 



[email protected] said:


> We're planning on early May, with a "soft opening" through April of products going to beta testers and tuners. If that sounds like a kind of pokey pace, keep in mind that we're targeting the REPAIR market for the F23T. It is a direct-fit replacement for a K03, making it more appealing than a K04 would be at repair time.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Hell yeah. My wife asked how much it was and even she said that's not bad!


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## SickTRed08FSI (Apr 29, 2011)

Beta testers huh? More on this.....


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## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

Doug, 

considering any testing with rods? 

or wanna see how much power it can make with rods?


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Back to basics for a minute. The Frankenturbo is a standard k04 hot side (or not) mated to what compressor side (have no idea what a F23T indicates)?


i was wondering the same thing?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> i was wondering the same thing?


From my understanding, its a K03 housing machined out with a custom wheel. No exact specs will be given. Contact [email protected] for more info.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> We're planning on early May, with a "soft opening" through April of products going to beta testers and tuners. If that sounds like a kind of pokey pace, keep in mind that we're targeting the REPAIR market for the F23T. It is a direct-fit replacement for a K03, making it more appealing than a K04 would be at repair time.


what exactly do you mean by repair market?


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## abqgti37 (Aug 30, 2011)

pb4life545 said:


> what exactly do you mean by repair market?


Direct replacement for a blown stock K03 turbo...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

abqgti37 said:


> Direct replacement for a blown stock K03 turbo...


Exactly. Every BorgWarner K03 out there -- while very good -- has a finite service life. They're all going to blow at some point. That's why we're emphasizing research for simple turbo swaps. Granted the peak hp in this video isn't breathtaking, but if it's possible to net this after a simple repair...well... kinda thought-provoking, wouldn't you say?


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

agreed


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

my stage 2+ put down 280ft/lbs on a awd mustang dyno... and that was before my throttle pipe and fmic. I noticed a seat of the pants change after doing those so I'm sure the numbers are north of dyno graph (albeit much though).


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Considering my original K03 put down only 242whp, that extra bump from the F23 offers will
fill that gap of the 5k rpm drop the K03 already does.


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## spb2127 (Mar 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Considering my original K03 put down only 242whp, that extra bump from the F23 offers will
> fill that gap of the 5k rpm drop the K03 already does.


Theses guys need to stop comparing their dyno sheets to yours. The only good data from all of these dyno charts is the comparison between the before and after on the same dyno with the same car, just turbo swapped and re-tuned.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

spb2127 said:


> Theses guys need to stop comparing their dyno sheets to yours. The only good data from all of these dyno charts is the comparison between the before and after on the same dyno with the same car, just turbo swapped and re-tuned.


:thumbup:


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## Onese1f (Sep 16, 2008)

Curious to know how the stock slush box will take to this..


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Onese1f said:


> Curious to know how the stock slush box will take to this..


There are plenty of members who are putting down some amazing #'s much higher than mine with zero issues.. Just saying


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Here is another work-in-progress video taken during last week's dyno testing. It picks up where the previous one left off, as we investigated the turbo's response to N75 duty commands and the fuel system's capacity for handling higher power.


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## Onese1f (Sep 16, 2008)

A3Performance said:


> There are plenty of members who are putting down some amazing #'s much higher than mine with zero issues.. Just saying


Thats good! I was just wondering because I know the stock tiptronic on our cars ****s the bed with higher tq (especially a ko4) without a valve body rebuild and tcm flash. But I guess with tq close to stage 2 levels all should be well? If so im totally hopping on this bandwagon.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Onese1f said:


> Thats good! I was just wondering because I know the stock tiptronic on our cars ****s the bed with higher tq (especially a ko4) without a valve body rebuild and tcm flash. But I guess with tq close to stage 2 levels all should be well? If so im totally hopping on this bandwagon.


That's odd, I know of quite a few forum members who are running BT's on their DSG with ZERO issues. I mean way bigger turbo's than a K04! :what:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

A3Performance said:


> That's odd, I know of quite a few forum members who are running BT's on their DSG with ZERO issues. I mean way bigger turbo's than a K04! :what:



He doesn't have a DSG, its a Passat (tiptronic) but there are tiptronic k04 cars roaming around


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> He doesn't have a DSG, its a Passat (tiptronic) but there are tiptronic k04 cars roaming around


If you go on the 2.5 forum someone is turboing their tiptronic rabbit and found a company who does awesome upgrades for those transmissions. I think they are called level 9 or something.

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

ahh i see, damn thats new to me. I've always thought it was either Manual or DSG.. hmm, you learn something new everyday.


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## Onese1f (Sep 16, 2008)

skyrolla89 said:


> If you go on the 2.5 forum someone is turboing their tiptronic rabbit and found a company who does awesome upgrades for those transmissions. I think they are called level 9 or something.
> 
> Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk 2


Yeah sorry for not clarifying! Hah and the name of the company you're looking for is level 10 but they have been under some scrutiny lately as only a few of my auto - tragic brethren have taken the leap into new turbo land


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> ahh i see, damn thats new to me. I've always thought it was either Manual or DSG.. hmm, you learn something new everyday.


Nah DSG is limited to just a few cars in the US Audi/VW line. Most of the time like his Passat you get the choice of Manual or Tip.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

2010+ passats are dsg. The rest of us have mashed potatoes but some people are making them work with good amounts of power. 

I would do this with a tranny cooler and flash or valve body upgrade. 

Recent budget figures I ran just knocked me out of the game...I am still accepting donations in the form of frankenturbos though.


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## Onese1f (Sep 16, 2008)

Yeahhhhh.. After running some numbers this also puts me over 3k because of our stupid transmissions. Sigh, looks like it'll be a set of coils and bbs reps for me


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Question for A3performance... I noticed you said you got a new ECM to start from scratch. Is this the recommended route to take?

I currently have APR software in mine (2+)... do you know if they modify the internals such that it makes it incompatible with the Eurodyne Maestro software? If so, I would like to start sourcing a new ECU sooner rather than later


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

We suggested the tester make a backup of his original ECU in case of problems with the transition to Eurodyne. This precaution was solely because of the unknowns going into testing. As Eurodyne finalizes software for the F23T, there's less impetus to go through that step.

By the way, we now have Eurodyne software on the "first" test car. This one is running HPFP and S3 injectors. It's an easy matter for Eurodyne to offer a software variant for those upgraded injectors. So now that this car has our Rev1 prototype turbo, we can use Maestro to dial it in. Thanks goes out to Chris Tapp of Eurodyne and Chris Birgl of CBTuning.

:thumbup:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

So the only car tested has upgraded injectors, but the goal is to be able to run stock injectors?

I'm curious as to what the difference in numbers will be with stock injectors.

Like I mentioned, PM me if you want to test that out, I'll let HS Tuning have my car for a week.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> Question for A3performance... I noticed you said you got a new ECM to start from scratch. Is this the recommended route to take?
> 
> I currently have APR software in mine (2+)... do you know if they modify the internals such that it makes it incompatible with the Eurodyne Maestro software? If so, I would like to start sourcing a new ECU sooner rather than later


As Doug answered it was all for precautions. No worries my friend, let's wait till the finalization of Eurodyne files to be available.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

xtravbx said:


> So the only car tested has upgraded injectors, but the goal is to be able to run stock injectors?
> 
> I'm curious as to what the difference in numbers will be with stock injectors.
> 
> .


yes im confused now


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

pb4life545 said:


> yes im confused now



Sorry for the confusion, my test car has stock injectors. The original test car has S3's, so there will be a file for both set ups.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Will the S3 injectors get us to 350whp easier?


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

majic said:


> Will the S3 injectors get us to 350whp easier?


absolutely


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

A3Performance said:


> Sorry for the confusion, my test car has stock injectors. The original test car has S3's, so there will be a file for both set ups.


so is your car still undergoing testing? when will there be a video or sheet of the best numbers?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> Will the S3 injectors get us to 350whp easier?


Not really, my car got to 358whp on stock injectors I just wasn't comfortable with the tq #'s since they were just about 325wtq. Stock rods don't like that too much


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

pb4life545 said:


> so is your car still undergoing testing? when will there be a video or sheet of the best numbers?


Both cars are still undergoing testing, this kit is still in it's early stages.. There are quite a few videos posted on this thread with plenty of data including before and after dyno sheets.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

A3Performance said:


> Not really, my car got to 358whp on stock injectors I just wasn't comfortable with the tq #'s since they were just about 325wtq. Stock rods don't like that too much


so whats the best WHP numbers your thinking with a practical WTQ numbers. to stay rod safe. and with stock injectors


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

pb4life545 said:


> so whats the best WHP numbers your thinking with a practical WTQ numbers. to stay rod safe. and with stock injectors


My exact #'s 342whp and 305wtq.


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

I'll be curious to see what this is capable of with a set of rods. I'd like to see what the max performance of this setup is.


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

gb21914 said:


> I'll be curious to see what this is capable of with a set of rods. I'd like to see what the max performance of this setup is.


x2


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

gb21914 said:


> I'll be curious to see what this is capable of with a set of rods. I'd like to see what the max performance of this setup is.


Well the full capability of this turbo has not yet been met. Since it's still in it's testing phases and both cars have stock rods its questionable as to how much can it deliver while keeping EGT's in check. If I had to guestimate, I would say anywhere from 360-380whp and 350-365wtq sounds just about right. I like my current powerband honestly it's so perfect for the street. If I invested into rods just for that small bump IMO it's not really worth it, I would just go with a larger turbo.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

gb21914 said:


> I'll be curious to see what this is capable of with a set of rods. I'd like to see what the max performance of this setup is.



To me running rods and using Frakenturbo is kinda self defeating. The point of the frakenturbo (from my point of view) is for someone looking for increased capability of a K04 at the fraction of the cost. The beauty of the FT23 is you make stupid power with very little money or hassle. Adding rods complicates and makes the setup expensive.

To me going the 3071r stock location/dotuning makes more sense if your adding rods and wanting more power in the future. In this case you can do add more power to your car on a budget with the capability of making more power than the FT23 when you add rods later. 

Everyone's end goal is going to be different but I think it only makes sense to use the FT23 in a budget friendly scenario.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> Question for A3performance... I noticed you said you got a new ECM to start from scratch. Is this the recommended route to take?





A3Performance said:


> As Doug answered it was all for precautions. No worries my friend, let's wait till the finalization of Eurodyne files to be available.


And here's an example of why being cautious can be helpful. Yesterday I was working with Chris Birgl of CBTuning, "helping" him define the Maestro file for the first test car. Unfortunately, I made a rookie mistake and had the car's ECU written so the immobilizer system was triggered. So Chris Tapp at Eurodyne now has to unlock the ECU. No damage done, but we learned that these ECUs are more sophisticated (fussy) than the older ones in Mk4 cars. This is why we're trying out all these things on test cars. So the unknowns can become knowns. And it's also really helpful to have test partners like CB Tuning, ForceFed Engineering & Eurodyne.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> And here's an example of why being cautious can be helpful. Yesterday I was working with Chris Birgl of CBTuning, "helping" him define the Maestro file for the first test car. Unfortunately, I made a rookie mistake and had the car's ECU written so the immobilizer system was triggered. So Chris Tapp at Eurodyne now has to unlock the ECU. No damage done, but we learned that these ECUs are more sophisticated (fussy) than the older ones in Mk4 cars. This is why we're trying out all these things on test cars. So the unknowns can become knowns. And it's also really helpful to have test partners like CB Tuning, ForceFed Engineering & Eurodyne.


Props to you for trying to find all the "quirks" before doing a public release. I have feeling it'll pay off for you in the future.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Wow that was a close one Doug we all learn something new everyday. I'm glad wit help of .dotuning I was able to get a spare ECU on hand.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

So if I wanted to get on this ASAP. How do I get the tune? Should I just run REVO stage 2+ or stage 3 for K04? Also do we know if the rs4 regulator is necessary?


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

Brokenparts said:


> To me running rods and using Frakenturbo is kinda self defeating. The point of the frakenturbo (from my point of view) is for someone looking for increased capability of a K04 at the fraction of the cost. The beauty of the FT23 is you make stupid power with very little money or hassle. Adding rods complicates and makes the setup expensive.
> 
> *To me going the 3071r stock location/dotuning makes more sense if your adding rods and wanting more power in the future.* In this case you can do add more power to your car on a budget with the capability of making more power than the FT23 when you add rods later.
> 
> Everyone's end goal is going to be different but I think it only makes sense to use the FT23 in a budget friendly scenario.


I've searched for this but cannot find anything on it... can you tell me more? I'm not trying to steer the thread in a different direction, but i'm soon to be at a cross roads of turbo setup. I have a spare FSI motor in my garage that i am putting rods in. The car will still be a daily driver for the most part, and i'm not looking to break the bank if i don't have to. A maxed out FT23 tuned for rods and injectors would still be less money than a GT30xx + manifold + rods + injectors.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> I've searched for this but cannot find anything on it... can you tell me more? I'm not trying to steer the thread in a different direction, but i'm soon to be at a cross roads of turbo setup. I have a spare FSI motor in my garage that i am putting rods in. The car will still be a daily driver for the most part, and i'm not looking to break the bank if i don't have to. A maxed out FT23 tuned for rods and injectors would still be less money than a GT30xx + manifold + rods + injectors.


.dotuning does a tune using the ATP 3701 stock location kit. Most of your current stuff will swap over to the the kit and .dotuning does the tuning. Uses stock injectors and makes 350whp. Same concept as the ft23 in many respects but leaves alot more room to build more power if the user wanted to. Upgrading the rods and injectors on the 3071/dotuning solution has a higher potential than the FT23... Think of of this route as just another "stage"....

Depends on what your goals are.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Honestly, it depends on your wallet. The ATP turbo costs double that of the F23T. Price alone is enough differentiation.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Honestly, it depends on your wallet. The ATP turbo costs double that of the F23T. Price alone is enough differentiation.



Agreed... I think it really depends what the end goal is and who owns the car. Someone on a budget but has a long term goal of HIGH hp should go for the apt kit if there wallet can afford it over time. Someone looking for bang for buck fun that is probably cover 90% of there HP needs I think will be happy with the ft23... I myself am really leaning towards the FT23. I really hope this gets on the market soon. 

Keep up the good work Doug!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Next up for testing:

KMD Tuning will install a turbo for use with their HPFP and Unitronic software. With luck they can twist Mike Z.'s arm and get him to do a file that asks for more boost than does the off-the-shelf offering Uni has now.

Auto Union Tuning will put an F23T on their Audi A3 shop car. They'll combine it with an Autotech pump and GIAC software; both are affiliates of AUTuning. I'm encouraging them to use stock injectors AND fuel rail pressure regulator valve. With proper tuning, we have demonstrated 350whp is doable -- and at only 120bar.

Let's Do This


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## abqgti37 (Aug 30, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Next up for testing:
> 
> KMD Tuning will install a turbo for use with their HPFP and Unitronic software. With luck they can twist Mike Z.'s arm and get him to do a file that asks for more boost than does the off-the-shelf offering Uni has now.
> 
> ...


Can wait...I have a GIAC dealer local here.


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Next up for testing:
> 
> KMD Tuning will install a turbo for use with their HPFP and Unitronic software. With luck they can twist Mike Z.'s arm and get him to do a file that asks for more boost than does the off-the-shelf offering Uni has now.
> 
> ...


This is great news! I have Unitronics now and was hoping to stay with them. The car is completely maxed out for a k03, even with WMI. I've been debating on picking up a used k04 to put on the car now, while i build the other engine over the summer. I'm just getting a little bored with the current setup, and an FT23 sounds like it would be fun until i'm ready to swap that other motor in.


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## aramsumair (Jun 14, 2012)

Wow, really excited for this. 

Doug, do you have any testers for the TSI engine??

If not, my car is ready  I am modding it this week (exhaust, intake, intercooler) in preparation for a bigger turbo, i just have not decided on which one it is yet.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> This is great news! I have Unitronics now and was hoping to stay with them. The car is completely maxed out for a k03, even with WMI. I've been debating on picking up a used k04 to put on the car now, while i build the other engine over the summer. I'm just getting a little bored with the current setup, and an FT23 sounds like it would be fun until i'm ready to swap that other motor in.


Trust me save your money and wait for the F23, K04 is pointless.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

I'm so glad for the community that more tuners are stepping in to test with this turbo. The more I drive my car the more I fall in love with it all over again.


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

A3Performance said:


> Trust me save your money and wait for the F23, K04 is pointless.


:thumbup::thumbup: I think i will do exactly that! I read on FrankenTurbo's website briefly that the FT23 is a customized k04 housing, and got even more excited when looking at the compressor maps of the k03 vs k04 vs FT23, and the efficiency versus say a GT28. I think i can speak for more than just myself here, but pending the results of a Unitronics tune on this setup, i have cash in hand, waiting for this to be released! :beer:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> :thumbup::thumbup: I think i will do exactly that! I read on FrankenTurbo's website briefly that the FT23 is a customized k04 housing, and got even more excited when looking at the compressor maps of the k03 vs k04 vs FT23, and the efficiency versus say a GT28. I think i can speak for more than just myself here, but pending the results of a Unitronics tune on this setup, i have cash in hand, waiting for this to be released! :beer:


:thumbup: That's key right there, and i'm hoping Uni does step in and play ball.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

aramsumair said:


> Wow, really excited for this.
> 
> Doug, do you have any testers for the TSI engine??


ForceFed has a TSI car getting a new clutch and which HAD been slated for a K04...that is until the owner discovered it wouldn't fit the motor. So we huddled with C.Tapp at Eurodyne and he gave us the green light for tuning it on an F23T. Look for news on that next week.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> ForceFed has a TSI car getting a new clutch and which HAD been slated for a K04...that is until the owner discovered it wouldn't fit the motor. So we huddled with C.Tapp at Eurodyne and he gave us the green light for tuning it on an F23T. Look for news on that next week.


:thumbup: opcorn:


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

Brokenparts said:


> To me running rods and using Frakenturbo is kinda self defeating. The point of the frakenturbo (from my point of view) is for someone looking for increased capability of a K04 at the fraction of the cost. The beauty of the FT23 is you make stupid power with very little money or hassle.


That's really what I am trying to say. 

Except that I want to know...what does this turbo max out at? In theory are we able to guesstimate what this turbo is capable of is we had stock "fueling" with rods? If rods are the limiting factor...I'd almost rather build the bottom end before investing into a bigger turbo, than upgrading the turbo and then having to rebuild a bottom end. I'd rather pad the safety margin up front...let's face it...if we all did rod work right off the bat, the turbo options kind of open up a little.

I'm probably a little more anal than most as my car is a daily commuter, and she can be finicky enough as it is. But I am really intrigued with what this kit is truly capable of. I think we can all say there is bang for the buck here...but I also want to know...where does this truly fit in the grand scheme of things?

I can see of variations of a kit here...

turbo seems to be enough to max out the stock fueling to some degree, so what if there was an aftermarket pump? Would that provide any advantage in terms of max power? I would tend to think so...clearly there is a limit to the torque that the stock rods could take...so if we added fueling/rods...can we guesstimate what the turbo 'could' do?

Curious


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

gb21914 said:


> That's really what I am trying to say.
> 
> Except that I want to know...what does this turbo max out at? In theory are we able to guesstimate what this turbo is capable of is we had stock "fueling" with rods? If rods are the limiting factor...I'd almost rather build the bottom end before investing into a bigger turbo, than upgrading the turbo and then having to rebuild a bottom end. I'd rather pad the safety margin up front...let's face it...if we all did rod work right off the bat, the turbo options kind of open up a little.
> 
> ...


This turbo was never marketed as being a BT kit, it's more of an OEM replacement turbo that performs well. I'm sure you can make more power than what i'm making sure with a set of rods and S3's. The power output won't be much to justify spending on rods, tune it conservatively and call it a day. If you choose to run rods, you can always tune more aggressively. It's like GIAC's extreme tune, they require rods on a K04.. it's all up to you!


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## kermitz (Mar 17, 2013)

A3Performance said:


> :thumbup: That's key right there, and i'm hoping Uni does step in and play ball.


I've been watching and waiting for this to happen. Saving my $ now for this kit and a UNI tune.


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## FinderRO (Sep 17, 2012)

kermitz said:


> I've been watching and waiting for this to happen. Saving my $ now for this kit and a UNI tune.


+1
I would be getting this kit for sure if UNI makes a file for it.


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

I know it's highly unlikely but I wish Revo would jump on the bandwagon.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

It's too good for me to not be in on this. I'll just have to save my pennies.


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

FinderRO said:


> I would be getting this kit for sure if UNI makes a file for it.


+2 very intrigued!


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

I'd be down to buy but I have REVO and I highly doubt they'll make a tune.  How much for the kit and the Eurodine flash?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SmithersSP said:


> I'd be down to buy but I have REVO and I highly doubt they'll make a tune.  How much for the kit and the Eurodine flash?


The Frankenturbo F23T will most likely be selling for $1,299 and Eurodyne Meastro goes for about $850. Eurodyne gives you the ability to fine tweak your tune a lot more than most tunes available to consumers. Some might say set it and forget it but others want flexibility. Personally I would sit tight as testing is currently being done with Unitronic and GIAC.


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## elgringogillao (Jun 1, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> ForceFed has a TSI car getting a new clutch and which HAD been slated for a K04...that is until the owner discovered it wouldn't fit the motor. So we huddled with C.Tapp at Eurodyne and he gave us the green light for tuning it on an F23T. Look for news on that next week.


Doug,

I am curious. Any idea how this setup would perform on the 6 speed automatic trans car? I recently downgraded to a B7 from the 2.7 A6 that had your FrakenTurbos. Just wondering about drivability.

Good Job by the way.:thumbup:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

A3Performance said:


> The Frankenturbo F23T will most likely be selling for $1,299 and Eurodyne Meastro goes for about $850. Eurodyne gives you the ability to fine tweak your tune a lot more than most tunes available to consumers. Some might say set it and forget it but others want flexibility. Personally I would sit tight as testing is currently being done with Unitronic and GIAC.


 I don't mind the Eurodyne maestro. For some reason I thought it was expensive but its only a few hundred (and sometimes no more expensive) than off the shelf k04 and BT tunes. I see it everywhere for $800. I'd still prefer to be able to drive to a eurodyne dealer and have a flash and call it a day but all in all it doesn't add much cost unless you can stick with the same tuner you have and pay an upgrade cost. I'm guessing that's the push to have the big 3 or 4 make tunes for this. I have APR so I already know new tuning is just an expense that's going to have to be added.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> I'd still prefer to be able to drive to a eurodyne dealer and have a flash and call it a day...


You'll be able to do that. And for less money than a full Maestro kit. Eurodyne has off-the-shelf software, and they'll be adding FrankenTurbo flashes to that library.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Bummer about the software. I think I'll go K04 simply because it will still be less in the long run (turbo, injectors, plumbing). I'm not discouraging this product by any means. I think this is a great fit; particularly for the FSI community. The price point is perfect. If REVO offered a tune I'd be sold. Has there been any testing of the HPFP.com stage II or III units?
http://hpfpupgrade.com/Products/Show/Volkswagen/2.0T+FSI/VW+FSI+Complete+High+Pressure+Fuel+Pump
I am not knowledgeable enough to know if the increased flow those units offer would be applicable for this application.
Cheers and GL! :thumbup::beer:


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## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

sub'd


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> I don't mind the Eurodyne maestro. For some reason I thought it was expensive but its only a few hundred (and sometimes no more expensive) than off the shelf k04 and BT tunes. I see it everywhere for $800. I'd still prefer to be able to drive to a eurodyne dealer and have a flash and call it a day but all in all it doesn't add much cost unless you can stick with the same tuner you have and pay an upgrade cost. I'm guessing that's the push to have the big 3 or 4 make tunes for this. I have APR so I already know new tuning is just an expense that's going to have to be added.


I really dobut APR will step up to this kit, the fact that they sell their own in house K04 kit with tune would lead me to believe that they wouldn't want the current APR customers not spending that money there. This kit is a great cometitor to any K04 kit while costing stupid amounts less than any K04 setup. I could be wrong but I don't think APR even offers a big turbo software kit outside of using their BT kit. So as you see they still want you to buy their hardware with their software.



SmithersSP said:


> Bummer about the software. I think I'll go K04 simply because it will still be less in the long run (turbo, injectors, plumbing). I'm not discouraging this product by any means. I think this is a great fit; particularly for the FSI community. The price point is perfect. If REVO offered a tune I'd be sold. Has there been any testing of the HPFP.com stage II or III units?
> http://hpfpupgrade.com/Products/Show/Volkswagen/2.0T+FSI/VW+FSI+Complete+High+Pressure+Fuel+Pump
> I am not knowledgeable enough to know if the increased flow those units offer would be applicable for this application.
> Cheers and GL! :thumbup::beer:


As for Revo I really don't think they will be part of this either. The company's main locating is oversea where this turbo may not be marketed to. Revo's US presence is somewhat lacking, I haven't seen any forum post from them in over a year, so they just don't keep up like the other tuning companies do here in the states. 

For the pumps from HPFP the stage one would be more than enough for this kit. It's currently what I use and from what John told me it can handle anything up to a mild tune BT setup. Stage 2 is for those high power tune BT setups and would be overkill for this setup no matter what you do to it, rods, injectors, so on. Stage 3 I'm not sure anyone is using as it's really for drag only purpose.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

fusionti said:


> I really dobut APR will step up to this kit, the fact that they sell their own in house K04 kit with tune would lead me to believe that they wouldn't want the current APR customers not spending that money there. This kit is a great cometitor to any K04 kit while costing stupid amounts less than any K04 setup. I could be wrong but I don't think APR even offers a big turbo software kit outside of using their BT kit. So as you see they still want you to buy their hardware with their software.


Is that not what I said 



02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> I have APR so I already know new tuning is just an expense that's going to have to be added.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Is that not what I said


Yeah sorry, more in reference to the big 3 or 4 tuners working with this. As it stands for the near future I'm guessing from what has been said Eurodyne, GIAC will do this, and than maybe Uni will be on board. Although from a post from Uni they don't sound like they really want to be part of this, per John, "We currently do not offer any specific software for the Frankenturbo turbocharger being discussed/developed. Sorry!"

So will see if they change their mind.


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## alerxovawo (Nov 26, 2011)

If Unitronic steps up to the plate and develops a tune for this F23T, I will definitely be a customer! Hopefully my tiptronic transmission can handle the power !


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Speaking of Unitronic, would anyone following this thread have logs of their Uni/K04 setup? I'd be curious to know the airflows. For comparison, here is where our first Eurodyne car wound up:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Speaking of Unitronic, would anyone following this thread have logs of their Uni/K04 setup? I'd be curious to know the airflows. For comparison, here is where our first Eurodyne car wound up:


I would actually like to see any K04 setup truthfully.


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

audizine Post you MAF max values


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Really interesting data. Especially the values for Stage 2+ cars (I assume stock turbo and HPFP upgrade)


*Stage 2+*
shiro1745 --------------------------------------- *175 g/s @ 5900 RPM @ 50ft (2 - 2.5 g/s @ idle)* -- Custom CAI K&N filter -- (APR tune) (probably bad sensor, new readings coming soon with a new sensor) 
Lazzae ------------------------------------------ *212 g/s @ 6400 RPM @ 130 ft (3.08g/S @ idle)* -- oem air filter -- (Superchips tune)
devvan ------------------------------------------- *209 g/s @ 6370 RPM @ 100 ft (2.65 g/s @ idle)* -- BMC drop-in filter -- (APR tune)
devvan ------------------------------------------- *213 g/s @ 6300 RPM @ 100 ft (2.65 g/s @ idle)* -- BMC drop-in filter -- (APR tune) -- logged on 23rd May 2012
airbornerifleman --------------------------------- *200 g/s @ 6480 RPM @ 515 ft (4.5 g/s @ idle)* -- 034 MS TIP and K&N Cone Filter -- (APR 91 II+ tune)

*K0x*
S3 K04
ericpaulyoung ---------------------------------- *243 g/s @ 6000 rpms @ few hundred feet* -- AFE Pro Dry drop in filter + intake flapper delete mod -- (APR K04 tune)
ericpaulyoung ---------------------------------- *257 g/s @ 6000 rpms @ few hundred feet* -- AFE Pro Dry drop in filter + intake flapper delete mod -- (Maestro tune - base file)
ericpaulyoung ---------------------------------- *264 g/s @ 6000 rpms @ few hundred feet* -- AFE Pro Dry drop in filter + intake flapper delete mod -- (Maestro tune - rev.1)
ericpaulyoung ---------------------------------- *270 g/s @ 6000 rpms @ few hundred feet* -- AFE Pro Dry drop in filter + intake flapper delete mod -- (Maestro tune - rev.3)
ericpaulyoung ---------------------------------- *262 g/s @ 6000 rpms @ few hundred feet* -- AFE Pro Dry drop in filter + intake flapper back in -- (Maestro tune - rev.4)


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Eurodyne Maestro (stock injectors) tuning: part 3*

Here's a couple more minutes of video showing the last phase of tuning the prototype F23T on stock injectors. In it, you can see what a valuable tool Maestro is to FFE's Ed Woolsey during the process.


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## mamey (Jan 28, 2005)

I join the petition to unitronic (as an actual uni stage 2 customer) please make this work with your tune and stock injectors and I will be all over it!


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

I hadn't seen this and i wish i haven't... Fml k04 status


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

holy s**t was that 360hp on stock injectors? im sooo ready for this to come out. but please oh please take your time with it and get the most usable power out of it you can!!!! GREAT WORK:beer:


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

I think I'm going to go this route too. I'd hate to skip out on Revo but times are changing.


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## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

must buy :thumbup:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

pb4life545 said:


> holy s**t was that 360hp on stock injectors? im sooo ready for this to come out. but please oh please take your time with it and get the most usable power out of it you can!!!! GREAT WORK:beer:


That was during the testing phase. I can tell you that my car is not putting down that power right now because it is not safe at all for our internals. I'm running a more conservative street tune that still outperforms a K04, it's just a great feeling that if I ever get rods installed I can adjust the maps via maestro!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> ForceFed has a TSI car getting a new clutch and which HAD been slated for a K04...that is until the owner discovered it wouldn't fit the motor. So we huddled with C.Tapp at Eurodyne and he gave us the green light for tuning it on an F23T. Look for news on that next week.


:heart:


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

i would just like to reiterate my plea for Unitronic to develop a tune for this :wave: Would love to have this for Wuste this year!:thumbup:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

I wouldn't sit around and wait for Uni to "come up" with a file. I would contact them and see what they can do to help out with this turbo application. Remember they themselves are planning to release their own version of a K04 kit, and this F23T does clash with their plans.. just saying.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Yeah -- more and more it makes me just want to throw down and drop the 800 on the meistro suite... just saying.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> Yeah -- more and more it makes me just want to throw down and drop the 800 on the meistro suite... just saying.


It's a powerful tool and always leaves room for changes. Another option you can go with is contact [email protected] or [email protected] they can create you a custom file for your set-up.


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

A3Performance said:


> Remember they themselves are planning to release their own version of a K04 kit, and this F23T does clash with their plans.. just saying.


I was not aware of this... good to know! thx:beer:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

:beer:


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

> A3Performance
> Originally Posted by majic
> Yeah -- more and more it makes me just want to throw down and drop the 800 on the meistro suite... just saying.
> It's a powerful tool and always leaves room for changes. Another option you can go with is contact [email protected] or [email protected] they can create you a custom file for your set-up.


If dotuning did make a custom map, wouldn't that involve you bringing your car to their facility?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> If dotuning did make a custom map, wouldn't that involve you bringing your car to their facility?


No they will most likely require you to get some sort of data logs via vag-com. Forward them and you must ship out your ECM to them. They will write you a custom map for your application. For the most part I would definitely encourage you to please contact [email protected] for more info.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Is there a solid release date yet? Web still says April 2013 and its now the end of the second week of the month.

Im about to sell some valuables to go towards this kit. Lol. A super must-have after reading all the data and going over the graphs in comparison to the ko4.

I think I might of missed it but are there logs with this kit utilizing stock hpfp, OEM injectors, with 3” downpipe?

Perhaps a list of runnable setups for all applications whether a potential buyer is modded out or still at stock looking to dive right in...?

Tapatalk 2.0


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Is there a solid release date yet? Web still says April 2013 and its now the end of the second week of the month.
> 
> Im about to sell some valuables to go towards this kit. Lol. A super must-have after reading all the data and going over the graphs in comparison to the ko4.
> 
> ...


Just factor in all parts needed for a Stage 2+ car, HPFP, intake, exhaust, intercooler, etc. You won't need injectors which is a bonus and this turbo is direct plug n play!


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Okay, I gotcha. So I'll still need an uprated intercooler and a HPFP upgrade. No too bad. Is A3 running an upgraded hpfp or just the internals of the stock hpfp were upgraded? Which is better or best for any occasion?

When will this be available???

Tapatalk 2.0


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

filthyillness said:


> Okay, I gotcha. So I'll still *need an uprated intercooler* and a HPFP upgrade. No too bad. Is A3 running an upgraded hpfp or just the internals of the stock hpfp were upgraded? Which is better or best for any occasion?


Last night we were finalizing a Eurodyne file for the TSI at ForceFed. The car had a stock intercooler and fueling. Basically stock but for an intake and exhaust. Because it lacked good intercooling, it couldn't carry the power like our FSI test car can. Granted, it made whopping torque, but the build is getting shortchanged if intercooling isn't upgraded.



filthyillness said:


> When will this be available???


We'll be doing an announcement of pre-sales through ForceFed Engineering and CBTuning over the weekend. We'll be shipping May 1.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Okay, I gotcha. So I'll still need an uprated intercooler and a HPFP upgrade. No too bad. Is A3 running an upgraded hpfp or just the internals of the stock hpfp were upgraded? Which is better or best for any occasion?
> 
> When will this be available???
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


I have an APR pump.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

> We'll be doing an announcement of pre-sales through ForceFed Engineering and CBTuning over the weekend. We'll be shipping May 1.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah, I had read that on MKVforums some couple hours after I had posted that. I'm so stoked!


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## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

looks like ill be texting cbtuning chris tomm


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Emailed me saying that the pre-release will be available, via those two websites, next week.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Last night we were finalizing a Eurodyne file for the TSI at ForceFed. The car had a stock intercooler and fueling. Basically stock but for an intake and exhaust. Because it lacked good intercooling, it couldn't carry the power like our FSI test car can. Granted, it made whopping torque, but the build is getting shortchanged if intercooling isn't upgraded.
> 
> 
> 
> We'll be doing an announcement of pre-sales through ForceFed Engineering and CBTuning over the weekend. We'll be shipping May 1.


Bump.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Mmmm.... Nice!

Tapatalk 2.0


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## alerxovawo (Nov 26, 2011)

Hey Frankenturbo, if you would like to test the f23T on a tiptronic transmission FSI motor let me know! I'll be that guinea pig :thumbup: I'm somewhat local and already Stage 2 HPFP with Unitronic :laugh: Just throwing it out there...


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I just thought of something.
This kit is going to hurt the resale value on existing, used, k04 kits. Lol.

Whats the word? I haven't been able to get online to check the aforementioned websites out for updates on this.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

K04 kits fill a place in the market. But like most things, when something better comes along the market has to adapt.

It will be interesting to see what a mainstream hybrid like this does to change the face of the market as it exists now


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

yeeee, know!

Tapatalk 2.0


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

Doug Maybe a strange question...but could you also build one of these with the original K04 housing that does not have the DV flange on the manifold?

I would like to change out my current k04 for this set up and it would be ideal to not have to redo all the plumbing :beer:


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

Rub-ISH said:


> Doug Maybe a strange question...but could you also build one of these with the original K04 housing that does not have the DV flange on the manifold?
> 
> I would like to change out my current k04 for this set up and it would be ideal to not have to redo all the plumbing :beer:


I second this...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

filthyillness said:


> Whats the word? I haven't been able to get online to check the aforementioned websites out for updates on this.


My fault guys. I will get these two companies what they need early next week. But remember, this is a "pre-sales" phase anyway. What's important is the delivery time, which is still slated for 1 May.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Rub-ISH said:


> Doug Maybe a strange question...but could you also build one of these with the original K04 housing that does not have the DV flange on the manifold?
> 
> I would like to change out my current k04 for this set up and it would be ideal to not have to redo all the plumbing :beer:


Not a strange question. It'd be easy to fabricate a block-off plate to allow you to retain your "relocation kit". But I'd prefer a bit more testing before I start selling anyone on dumping their K04 turbos.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I'm a little confused, is this a modified K04 or a K03S?

I had planned to go with an APR K04 or a GTX2867R. I have S3 injectors and was planning on picking up some runner flap deletes as a "while I'm there..." project.

Will there be tuning available for S3 injectors or runner flap delete option? Is there a guesstimate on WHP/CHP with S3 injectors?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> I'm a little confused, is this a modified K04 or a K03S?
> 
> I had planned to go with an APR K04 or a GTX2867R. I have S3 injectors and was planning on picking up some runner flap deletes as a "while I'm there..." project.
> 
> Will there be tuning available for S3 injectors or runner flap delete option? Is there a guesstimate on WHP/CHP with S3 injectors?


There's no real need for the S3 injectors, the tune for the FSI on stock rods is ideal enough with stock injectors. Adding S3's really won't gain much unless your pushing beyond what the stock internals can handle.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

So, the pre-sales is for kits that will ship out the 1st of May at the $1299 price. After that, does the price go up? 

Also, If get a kit from the presales and there are revisions or defects or anything like that, will it be covered for updates/replacements?

Im probably going to buy this summer instead. How much am I looking at?

Tapatalk 2.0


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

We have no plans for raising prices later. And any remaining revisions to the turbos would be done before we ship in May.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

you should make a video of the A3 driving, some fly bys, pulls, possibly a burn out :beer:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> My fault guys. I will get these two companies what they need early next week. But remember, this is a "pre-sales" phase anyway. What's important is the delivery time, which is still slated for 1 May.


I think more than anything else we are all curious how this is going to be packaged up and what the procedure will be to have everything working with the software.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Sounds good, Doug. Thanks for that info. Im currently in the process of moving and it would be childish of me to drop $1300 during that time frame. 

Definitely a good summer upgrade for local gtg and upcoming shows in the fall.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> I think more than anything else we are all curious how this is going to be packaged up and what the procedure will be to have everything working with the software.


Message received. For the immediate future, the only software support for this turbo will be Eurodyne. But we have a turbo with Auto Union Tuning right now, and they will be collaborating with GIAC for a software solution to complement Eurodyne's.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Message received. For the immediate future, the only software support for this turbo will be Eurodyne. But we have a turbo with Auto Union Tuning right now, and they will be collaborating with GIAC for a software solution to complement Eurodyne's.



So if I have this straight:

1. Place order with Frakenturbo for FT23

2. Place order for Eurodyne software (http://www.eurodyne.ca/prestashop/product.php?id_product=31)

3. Receive FT23 sometime after May 1st

4. Receive software from Eurodyne

5. Recieve base file from Frakenturbo headquarters

6. Go out to Garage and install FT23

7. Install software onto laptop

8. Flash software/file from Frakenturbo into ECU

9. Peel out.


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

Hmmmm....and if you're an existing GIAC customer....don't you get some kind of healthy discount on changing/upgrading?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> So if I have this straight:
> 
> 1. Place order with Frakenturbo for FT23
> 
> ...


If i'm not mistaken you really don't have to buy the Maestro suite, it would be a flash fee and the rod safe maps get installed.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> If i'm not mistaken you really don't have to buy the Maestro suite, it would be a flash fee and the rod safe maps get installed.


That's true. All customers would have the option of a moderately-priced "off the shelf" F23T file or the Maestro flashing system, which would allow you to make changes to that base file.

Also, here is the list of Eurodyne's dealers:

http://www.eurodyne.ca/eurodyne_dealers.php


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Ill have to check who is close to flash my ecu. I wouldnt want to mail my ecu in.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> That's true. All customers would have the option of a moderately-priced "off the shelf" F23T file or the Maestro flashing system, which would allow you to make changes to that base file.
> 
> Also, here is the list of Eurodyne's dealers:
> 
> http://www.eurodyne.ca/eurodyne_dealers.php



Um yeah... that's not going to be an option as there is no eurodyne dealer even close (I'm in Oregon). 

So the options are?

1. send in ecu to Eurodyne dealer

2. Buy Eurodyne Suite and have the file sent to me so that I can flash it in?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Thats what im thinking. Youd prolly get more out if you buy the suite then you could learn how to use it, change some parameters around, make a few more horses after you go with rods and what not.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Thats what im thinking. Youd prolly get more out if you buy the suite then you could learn how to use it, change some parameters around, make a few more horses after you go with rods and what not.
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


Don't get me wrong the whole suite is worth it, but the option is still available to those folks who desire a set it and forget it tune.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

$600 flash vs a $800 suite is here nor there considering the convenience of flashing yourself and ability to log, tune and use on any set up. A few tanks of gas and dining cost of a road trip to get flashed nearly makes up the difference in cost.


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## alerxovawo (Nov 26, 2011)

What will the price be for the "off the shelf" tune?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> $600 flash vs a $800 suite is here nor there considering the convenience of flashing yourself and ability to log, tune and use on any set up. A few tanks of gas and dining cost of a road trip to get flashed nearly makes up the difference in cost.



Agreed if the difference between the two is a couple hundred bucks I'd rather have the suite. Now if the "set it and forget it" flash were SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper and within a convenient range to have it flashed I would tend to go that route. The other part is getting the vehicle to a dealer if you decide to install the kit yourself.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> $600 flash vs a $800 suite is here nor there considering the convenience of flashing yourself and ability to log, tune and use on any set up. A few tanks of gas and dining cost of a road trip to get flashed nearly makes up the difference in cost.


I believe it's only $450..


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Make it $375 and you've gotta deal 

Tapatalk 2.0


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Make it $375 and you've gotta deal
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


don't think that's happening but it was worth the post!


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

How many miles have you clocked in on the new setup so far? Any troubles or concerns?

Tapatalk 2.0


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

A3Performance said:


> I believe it's only $450..


not bad...I was using typical tuner flash for reference


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> How many miles have you clocked in on the new setup so far? Any troubles or concerns?
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


I've put about close to 1,000 miles on it so far. The car is a complete animal, hands down. My only minor concern and it's in the works so i'm not worried at all. There seems to be an adjustment via MAF correction that must take place in the Eurodyne Maestro suite, and once that's refined i'm sure it's only going to get better. Trust me guys, you won't be sorry and once you finally get one in your hands you'll see what a solid turbo it really is!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Chris Tapp at Eurodyne has confirmed pricing is:

Baseline flash: $499
Maestro kit: $800

Your local dealer might add fees for additional services, so you need to check with them.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Chris Tapp at Eurodyne has confirmed pricing is:
> 
> Baseline flash: $499
> Maestro kit: $800
> ...


:thumbup:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Since a dealer isn't an option for me... Is the suite something I can easily install and flash in myself?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> Since a dealer isn't an option for me... Is the suite something I can easily install and flash in myself?


yes, there's a read ECU function, within the ECU flasher tool . Then it saves a file you upload to [email protected] they will send you the file needed after for you to reflash. It's a learning process to tinker with this suite, Doug and I had fun with my car..


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> yes, there's a read ECU function, within the ECU flasher tool . Then it saves a file you upload to [email protected] they will send you the file needed after for you to reflash. It's a learning process to tinker with this suite, Doug and I had fun with my car..


Cool. I take it the suite includes the baseline file flash? (not $499 + $800).


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> Cool. I take it the suite includes the baseline file flash? (not $499 + $800).


The $800 Doug mentioned is exactly what I have. The base file and the ability for you to adjust at your own pleasure.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> Cool. I take it the suite includes the baseline file flash? (not $499 + $800).


Exactly. Via interweb, the Maestro program can access the Eurodyne library, which actually has a number of files you have unlimited access to. Also, we will be offering a discounted price on the turbo/Maestro software during the pre-sales phase. Contact us by email for details on that.

:beer:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Exactly. Via interweb, the Maestro program can access the Eurodyne library, which actually has a number of files you have unlimited access to. Also, we will be offering a discounted price on the turbo/Maestro software during the pre-sales phase. Contact us by email for details on that.
> 
> :beer:


Cool. So... more questons:

1. Would this be a good kit for home "wrenchers"? http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Engine/Turbocharger/ES1843898/

2. Any problems writing over my existing APR 2+ software using the Eurodyne software suite? 

3. Any word on when you are going to be accepting "pre-order" sales? 

4. Any benefit installing my water/meth kit with the F23T on stock rods?

5. Is there any included instructions for the install?


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

question #4 is likely no....from reading back the weak spot of this kit seems to be the rods (already de-tuned for motor safety for A3Performance). But I think it is safe to say that if you were to upgrade the rods....then yes  There's more fun to be had with this kit *grin*


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Water/meth is always a great idea to keep temps down to keep detonation in check to keep rods safe. IMO. 

You will definitely have a better power band, plus it has some small cleaning benefits of the intake valves. 

I say install it.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Water/meth is always a great idea to keep temps down to keep detonation in check to keep rods safe. IMO.
> 
> You will definitely have a better power band, plus it has some small cleaning benefits of the intake valves.
> 
> I say install it.


I know there are great benefits with W/M. If you run the Eurodyne file on stock rods then I don't recommended it.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> Cool. So... more questons:
> 
> 1. Would this be a good kit for home "wrenchers"? http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Engine/Turbocharger/ES1843898/
> 
> ...


# 1. That kit is what I used.

# 2. Perhaps Doug can chime in since I wasn't present during the reflashing the first time around.

# 4. Don't do it on stock Rods!


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

xtravbx said:


> Water/meth is always a great idea to keep temps down to keep detonation in check to keep rods safe. IMO.
> 
> You will definitely have a better power band, plus it has some small cleaning benefits of the intake valves.
> 
> I say install it.


I don't disagree with everything you are saying. I agree with the whole temperature control, and cleaning benefits. I agree 100%

The only thing I disagree with...is that water meth isn't going to keep you from bending rods under ANY circumstances. Water meth cant defeat the laws of physics...if you exceed the max torque the rod can handle, you are dead in the water....meth or not 

Pretty sure A3 said the tune is pretty conservative because of the torque this can put out.

Sorry...im perhaps just being particular 

I would still love to know what the true full potential of this kit is. True...it seems like it might be a "K04 killer" in price and performance for some...but if we had a car with rods, fueling...what numbers could we see realistically? Is 400hp possible with an FT23?


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## Josein06GLI (Jun 29, 2008)

In for real testing and product info and when and where I can buy it.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> 4. Any benefit installing my water/meth kit with the F23T on stock rods?


There's virtually no use for WMI on the stock motor. You're already able to ride the torque limits up to close to 6000rpms. So unless you spend a ton of time above that, the octane benefits of WMI will go to waste.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> There's virtually no use for WMI on the stock motor. You're already able to ride the torque limits up to close to 6000rpms. So unless you spend a ton of time above that, the octane benefits of WMI will go to waste.


For sale... Snow Stage 2 water methanol kit with dual nozzles and many extras.


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

LOL


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

I'm on board! 3 weeks time, there's going to be a marked absence of a red A3 in memphis, and then a notably faster one shortly thereafter


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

ahh do want.


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## Beaviz (Jul 23, 2010)

This turbo looks very promising!

Do you know or can you eventually investigate whether it would be possible to read out the file with my own tool (I have done this before), send it to the guy that makes the Eurodyne tune and then flash it back again with my own tool (also done before)?

I am asking because I am not in the US and my ECU does not look as if it is supported by Eurodyne (yet?). It is a 2.0T FSI BWA engine by the way.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Beaviz said:


> This turbo looks very promising!
> 
> Do you know or can you eventually investigate whether it would be possible to read out the file with my own tool (I have done this before), send it to the guy that makes the Eurodyne tune and then flash it back again with my own tool (also done before)?
> 
> I am asking because I am not in the US and my ECU does not look as if it is supported by Eurodyne (yet?). It is a 2.0T FSI BWA engine by the way.


Please contact [email protected] for more information. :beer:


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## integragsr423 (Sep 12, 2008)

OK so let me get this right is giac still coming up with a flash for this because its what i have now..Evoms intalke forge diverter valve and 3" catless downpipe,,So I need a hpfp and FMIC intercooler to run this software ??...And I have to leave my current tuner giac...Not tryna be an idiot just wanna be on the same page so I can buy this I have a 2007 mkv gti fsi giac..:beer::beer:


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

integragsr423 said:


> OK so let me get this right is giac still coming up with a flash for this because its what i have now..Evoms intalke forge diverter valve and 3" catless downpipe,,So I need a hpfp and FMIC intercooler to run this software ??...And I have to leave my current tuner giac...Not tryna be an idiot just wanna be on the same page so I can buy this I have a 2007 mkv gti fsi giac..:beer::beer:


I can't speak for GIAC, but i did call Unitronic directly. They are aware of the FT23 and said they will not be developing a tune for it. I was disappointed when i heard that.

As far as your hardware goes, you would need everything a normal Stg2+ car would need, or maybe it would be easier to think of it like this... Everything a K04 car would need minus the S3 injectors... sounds like you'd need an upgraded HPFP and strongly suggest a an S3 intercooler or other aftermarket FMIC.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Ordered. Thank you.

Feels like a waste having to lose my APR multi-program ECU. Oh well.


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

xtravbx said:


> Ordered. Thank you.
> 
> Feels like a waste having to lose my APR multi-program ECU. Oh well.


:thumbup::thumbup: Looking forward to more reviews! :beer:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

integragsr423 said:


> OK so let me get this right is giac still coming up with a flash for this because its what i have now..Evoms intalke forge diverter valve and 3" catless downpipe,,So I need a hpfp and FMIC intercooler to run this software ??...And I have to leave my current tuner giac...Not tryna be an idiot just wanna be on the same page so I can buy this I have a 2007 mkv gti fsi giac..:beer::beer:


Auto Union in California are installing one on a car. I also believe they are working with GIAC to dial in a tune for this kit. Sit tight and let's wait for results, so it's GIAC and Eurodyne as of now.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> I can't speak for GIAC, but i did call Unitronic directly. They are aware of the FT23 and said they will not be developing a tune for it. I was disappointed when i heard that.
> 
> As far as your hardware goes, you would need everything a normal Stg2+ car would need, or maybe it would be easier to think of it like this... Everything a K04 car would need minus the S3 injectors... sounds like you'd need an upgraded HPFP and strongly suggest a an S3 intercooler or other aftermarket FMIC.


Unitronic will not develop software because they are planning to release their own K04 kit.. :banghead:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> ... so it's GIAC and Eurodyne as of now.


I am happy to report that this is true. Auto Union Tuning has been a strong supporter of ours in the 2.7T Audi engine for some time now. So when GIAC suggested pairing the F23T with an AU shop car for them to tune...well, let's say I was pretty darned happy. As of now, the car is running the turbo on actuator pressure. GIAC will be tuning the turbo for *stock injectors*, with a goal of ~330whp on their dyno. Let's see how this goes!


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

A3Performance said:


> Unitronic will not develop software because they are planning to release their own K04 kit.. :banghead:


That will be interesting to watch. I asked plenty of questions regarding the K04 and larger turbos, and regarding different injectors when i called them the other day. They didn't mention anything about developing their own kit. Perhaps the person i was speaking with was not at liberty to say anything if they are still working on their package?

So... who's selling their K04 for the cheap now?:laugh:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> That will be interesting to watch. I asked plenty of questions regarding the K04 and larger turbos, and regarding different injectors when i called them the other day. They didn't mention anything about developing their own kit. Perhaps the person i was speaking with was not at liberty to say anything if they are still working on their package?
> 
> So... who's selling their K04 for the cheap now?:laugh:


Yea they are trying to keep things under wrap for now which honestly is pointless since the K04 is old news.


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

A3Performance said:


> Yea they are trying to keep things under wrap for now which honestly is pointless since the K04 is old news.


yeah, kinda seems like they're late to the game.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> yeah, kinda seems like they're late to the game.


Yea they've been pushing the CTS kit and KMD HPFP but now they want to sell their own kit. I don't see them being profitable but to each their own.


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## Josein06GLI (Jun 29, 2008)

saw the video of the red audi. i dont think the whp is achievable on oem injectors. how is that so? have the flow rates and patterns for specified rpms been altered any? the duty cycle of the injector doesnt have anything to do with the flow rate? again lost in the thought of how oem fuel system besides an apr hpfp can produce those numbers. is your testing saying you dont need s3 or rs4 injectors for any ko4 kit or even better yet an optimized ko4 kit like yours?? im interested in the testing theories. not against it just want info on the specifics of your tunings. :beer::thumbup:

i patiently await an answer...


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

An upgraded hpfp will be required to run it. Im not sure how they made it ao that stock injectors can be maintained but why not. Evidently its working. All the usual upgrades youd see on a ko4 turbo kit can be utilized, and can result im increased horsepower. Im truely contemplating going the rod route so stabilize at that 360-370+ mark matting to about the same Ft lbs.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Josein06GLI said:


> ...on oem injectors. how is that so? have the flow rates and patterns for specified rpms been altered any? is your testing saying you dont need s3 or rs4 injectors... just want info on the specifics of your tunings. :beer::thumbup:





filthyillness said:


> An upgraded hpfp will be required to run it. Im not sure how they made it ao that stock injectors can be maintained but why not.


C.Tapp must be performing a good bit of "in the background" tuning to make this work. He didn't elaborate on what he was doing, but from the beginning of the process he was confident we could use stock FSI injectors and upgraded HPFP. What really surprised me was the fueling's capabilities at lower and lower fuel rail pressures. I'd assumed a modified fuel rail regulator valve would be a mandatory. But he got 350whp out of 120bar fuel rail pressure. No need to alter the valve at that level.

It will be interesting to see GIAC replicate this. All our old pre-conceptions about fueling needs on the FSI are crashing down.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Waiting 2+ weeks for this to arrive will be killing me. 

Oh well. Enough time to get a fuel pump done.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

I'm not going to point fingers or make any call outs here, because to do so would be calling people liars... But perhaps getting upgraded injectors has been a marketing mechanism because... Well, lets face it, when an injector costs over one hundred dollars a pop, how much profit do you think that is, and of course it is the "safe" thing to do... Keeping the end user's in mind.

Make a business decision here, under flow up rated injectors (and because the pressure is high enough there still good spray), and make a little extra money... Or squeeze the maximum out of the oem injectors when you have a corner on the market, and no vested interest in making things chaper.


It's like the DV reroute kits, or intakes... Or exhaust x vs y, or downpipe a vs b. at what point are people paying for look/feel, and when did they stop paying for performance.

It's not deception, in the same way that sports supplement companies can make claims that their products MAY improve your performance if you take they super mega pre workout compound.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pre-release sales are now formally underway through our website here. When you click to configure, you'll see the option to add Eurodyne Maestro. Anyone who chooses to purchase that as well should use this coupon code:

MAESTRO20​
This is a 20% discount on Eurodyne's Maestro tuning suite, and it will be active until the May 1 release date. 

Thanks all.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Pre-release sales are now formally underway through our website here. When you click to configure, you'll see the option to add Eurodyne Maestro. Anyone who chooses to purchase that as well should use this coupon code:
> 
> MAESTRO20​
> This is a 20% discount on Eurodyne's Maestro tuning suite, and it will be active until the May 1 release date.
> ...


K04 blues.... :,(


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Pre-release sales are now formally underway through our website here. When you click to configure, you'll see the option to add Eurodyne Maestro. Anyone who chooses to purchase that as well should use this coupon code:
> 
> MAESTRO20​
> This is a 20% discount on Eurodyne's Maestro tuning suite, and it will be active until the May 1 release date.
> ...


 eace:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

majic said:


> I'm not going to point fingers or make any call outs here, because to do so would be calling people liars... But perhaps getting upgraded injectors has been a marketing mechanism because... Well, lets face it, when an injector costs over one hundred dollars a pop, how much profit do you think that is, and of course it is the "safe" thing to do... Keeping the end user's in mind.
> 
> Make a business decision here, under flow up rated injectors (and because the pressure is high enough there still good spray), and make a little extra money..


 I really don't think marketing has anything to do with it. If that were the case they'd be selling injectors on TSIs too. They are simply replicating what VW has done. They are k04 "conversions" (+if your tuning factory S3s 30ED and k04 TTs it makes since you'd try to replicate as much of the hardware as possible on a conversion to use the data you already know as opposed to reinventing the wheel). I'm 100% certain there are way more profits to b had lowering the cost of k04 kits by $500 with less labor than the little kickback from selling K04 injectors.
Besides no one has ever claimed the factory system wasn't capable at high rpm (340hp at 6000rpm according to APR) so with uprated pumps the max numbers are no big deal. Its the midrange that should theoretically suffer from using stock injectors and if ifs true APR and others have toyed with 400 wheel ft lbs of tq k04 files... not for public consumption then the stock injectors are in fact limiting output. It just so happens the internals aren't up to the task anyway. I look art it this way. Stage 2+ tq is plenty. If you never make another ft lb of tq but can make 300ish or more hp who cares if the midrange is tuned stage 2+ soft.


Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## abqgti37 (Aug 30, 2011)

I was just looking at the pre-sale configuration. There is an option for a manual boost controller, I thought this setup still retains the factory N75 valve for boost control? Is the manual boost controller really needed?


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## Yosh_Cupra (Jun 28, 2008)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> That will be interesting to watch. I asked plenty of questions regarding the K04 and larger turbos, and regarding different injectors when i called them the other day. They didn't mention anything about developing their own kit. Perhaps the person i was speaking with was not at liberty to say anything if they are still working on their package?
> 
> So... who's selling their K04 for the cheap now?:laugh:


 Hi scirocco speed, who did you speak with at Unitronic? I have a completely different response from director of development...Please PM


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

abqgti37 said:


> I was just looking at the pre-sale configuration. There is an option for a manual boost controller, I thought this setup still retains the factory N75 valve for boost control? Is the manual boost controller really needed?


 Not needed


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah, I see that some others are getting in on this. I just found out EuroWise, local enough shop, is an authorized Eurodyne dealer.

Manual boost controller? Sketchy

Tapatalk 2.0


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## alerxovawo (Nov 26, 2011)

What's with this manual boost controller option? I was all for this kit until I saw that. Very sketchy if you ask me. I thought this was supposed to be a direct Ko3 swap?? :screwy::what:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

alerxovawo said:


> What's with this manual boost controller option? I was all for this kit until I saw that. Very sketchy if you ask me. I thought this was supposed to be a direct Ko3 swap?? :screwy::what:


 it's an available option, there's no need for it. I'm not running one and my car drives fine :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

alerxovawo said:


> What's with this manual boost controller option? I was all for this kit until I saw that. Very sketchy if you ask me.


 There's nothing sketchy about guarding against dangerous overboost conditions. 

Our sales experience has shown that a big proportion of our customers install their FrankenTurbos before re-flashing their cars. In those cases, their *K03-based ECU software* is inadequate to maintain proper boost levels. A highly effective protection against overboost is a manual boost controller installed in parallel with the F23T's own N75 boost control valve. 

This graphic is taken from boostvalve.com's technical literature. It illustrates the proper way to employ a manual boost controller for overboost protection: 











And here is their product shot of the "Overboost Protection Kit", (that we sell at a discount, by the way) 











Again, we offer this boostvalve product to any customer who intends to install their FrankenTurbo without re-flashing their vehicle's ECU. Purchase of a turbocharger kit is an expensive proposition. There are a good number of people out there who cannot afford new software at the same time.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Im just saying manual boost controllers, its hard to find a good one thatll be easy to access without neededing to pull over, pop the hood, and lower boost is need be

Tapatalk 2.0


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

filthyillness said:


> Im just saying manual boost controllers, its hard to find a good one thatll be easy to access without neededing to pull over, pop the hood, and lower boost is need be


 I see. Well, an overboost protection setup is one which you'd never fiddle with. You'd set it for whatever boost ceiling is appropriate, and have it there as a back-stop in case the ECU isn't capable on its own.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Doug, what kind of whp/tq power can be expected running the f23t and the factory k03 tune? 

I am currently running apr 2+ software and using the supported hardware (downpipe etc)... I'm playing with the idea of flashing back to stock but leaving my hardware in place (and adding the f23t)... am I asking for headaches going this route?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Maestro or no cigar. APR is the enemy with this kit, nuff said.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> Maestro or no cigar. APR is the enemy with this kit, nuff said.
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


 I understand no apr.... The question is if I flash back to the vw factory tune and just add the f23t...

1. Will my current hardware play nice with the factory tune and/if...

2. What kind if numbers can be expected running the VW factory/stock tune with the f23t turbo. 

I think a lot if us are in the 2/2+ category and want to get the turbo but are also curious about tunes and software. I don't really want to commit to software as it seems that there may be further players developing there own support/tunes/software for the f23t.

I would like to use the money on a LSD instead of the software while development continues.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> There's nothing sketchy about guarding against dangerous overboost conditions.
> 
> Our sales experience has shown that a big proportion of our customers install their FrankenTurbos before re-flashing their cars. In those cases, their *K03-based ECU software* is inadequate to maintain proper boost levels. A highly effective protection against overboost is a manual boost controller installed in parallel with the F23T's own N75 boost control valve.
> 
> ...


 This should be the answer to both questions about software and the MB.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> This should be the answer to both questions about software and the MB.
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


 No it only answers about the manual boost controller. 

The question about what hp/tq numbers can be expected on stock software was not answered. Just that its compatible if you use the MB controller.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> Maestro or no cigar. APR is the enemy with this kit, nuff said.
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


 
Yes APR does not support it but that doesn't have anything to do with what broke parts asked.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Yes, I am looking for direct answers... Not speculation or vague remarks that only half answer my question. I want to have my fears and questions answered before droppin $2500 and basically throwing my apr tune in the trash. Not to mention I am trying to avoid having to ride my bike to work because of hardware/software conflicts.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> Doug, what kind of whp/tq power can be expected running the f23t and the factory k03 tune?


 I'm guessing most of you have seen the video we did of our test car running pure actuator pressure. Even with boost suppressed to 1bar or less, peak hp was impressive. But I don't want to give the impression that our message is _"This F23T will be Dy-No-Mite! on K03 tuning!"_ I kinda don't think that's what people will think. But will it work ok? In the short term? I believe the answer to that is "YES".


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'm guessing most of you have seen the video we did of our test car running pure actuator pressure. Even with boost suppressed to 1bar or less, peak hp was impressive. But I don't want to give the impression that our message is _"This F23T will be Dy-No-Mite! on K03 tuning!"_ I kinda don't think that's what people will think. But will it work ok? In the short term? I believe the answer to that is "YES".


 I'm not worried about dynomite out if the shoot... An increase on power is really all I would be after. It seems that the potential for this turbo is so high that I believe there will be a rat race amongst "tuners" with there own tunes Which I'd like to sit back and watch as that side develops. In the mean time, some bolt on turbo hp on a stock tune would be enough to keep me smilin for a while (especially if the stock tune + f23t yields 285whp like I think I saw in that video).


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## mike082802 (Mar 23, 2006)

*hp with stock fueling*

i would like to know what hp/tq numbers can be expected with stock fueling. i have 3" apr full exhaust with giac tune on my 2007 passat, it is paid off now and i dont really want to drop another 600-700 for a new fuel pump, this turbo has me contemplating keeping my car for another 2 years. i have owned it since new and it now has 100000 miles on it.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

xtravbx said:


> No it only answers about the manual boost controller.
> 
> The question about what hp/tq numbers can be expected on stock software was not answered. Just that its compatible if you use the MB controller.


 What, are you dumb? Clearly you didnt read it. It states that they've added measures to help with the lack in software by adding a means to control boost so you dont blow anything up.



Brokenparts said:


> Yes, I am looking for direct answers... Not speculation or vague remarks that only half answer my question. I want to have my fears and questions answered before droppin $2500 and basically throwing my apr tune in the trash. Not to mention I am trying to avoid having to ride my bike to work because of hardware/software conflicts.


 If your worried about having a software conflict then thank the person did your tune as they dual booted your ecu with two different tunes... Not quite possible.

If you have APR, set it to stock mode, run the turbo, get maestro suite when it can be afforded.




xtravbx said:


> No it only answers about the manual boost controller.
> 
> The question about what hp/tq numbers can be expected on stock software was not answered. Just that its compatible if you use the MB controller.


 
No numbers are availalbe because they did not run dynos yet or else would have video, graphs, and logs on the possible HP/tq that can be seen running on stock ecu.

Clearly the opening thread and supportive threads were not read.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

Tutti57 said:


> Doug has proven himself as "the man" in this tread with his responses to these questions. Good work.


 gets my vote :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Dave Marsh at AU Tuning has his F23T test unit installed with an AutoTech HPFP and GIAC Stg1 flash. What that means is he's got the *pump*, but not the *software* to run it at a raised fuel rail pressure. So what are the fueling's limits when just the hardware is upgraded but the software is just a basic chip tune? He's going to log it and find out.


 AU Tuning has already sent me a raft of logs from their Audi A3 running the F23T. As I mentioned above, the first order of business was to see how well the modest GIAC Stg1 file handled the bigger turbo running pure actuator pressure. To do the testing, Dave simply disconnected the turbo's electric N75 valve and plugged in a separate one, which kept the ECU thinking nothing was changed. But with the turbo's valve powered off, it directs all boost to the actuator, thusly getting you "actuator pressure" performance. 

I'm guessing FrankenTurbo is new to most of you reading this thread, but for those of you who are familiar with me in the 1.8T forums, you know I have a thing for charts and graphs. I love 'em. So let's have a look-see at the test car's first day with the turbo... 

Firstly, airflow. The car is seeing good peak airflow numbers. They're actually a touch higher than just about any K03-based file would offer. So even when held back by zero duty, the car feels plenty strong. 











Boost is of course not as high. It's stuck right around the 12psi preload level. 











In the lower graph, you can see how airflows hold up to those on a Unitronic Stg2 flash. The midrange is softer, of course, but the top end is very competitive. 

So with that amount of air being boosted, how is the fueling holding up? On a plain ole Stg1 flash, you'd expect fuel rail pressures not much higher than stock. And the logging bears that out. For all but the last few moments of the pull, fuel rail pressure is a modest 109bar. Why it jumps up towards the end might be owing to the upgraded HPFP getting ahead of the stock-pump software. It is interesting to see how well the modded pump hews to command pressure. My guess is that the ECU has some kind of adaptation capability for the HPFP, which would explain the very good control it shows here. 











As a result of the consistent fuel pressure, injector timing stays under the 9 millisecond "safe limit": 











And with the fuel rail pressure at a good level, and the injectors fueling properly, Lambdas are good -- even a bit rich. 











With these baselines now collected, Dave at AU Tuning will now move ahead with GIAC to test a first draft file for the F23T. We might have some results from that as soon as tomorrow. 

:beer:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> AU Tuning has already sent me a raft of logs from their Audi A3 running the F23T. As I mentioned above, the first order of business was to see how well the modest GIAC Stg1 file handled the bigger turbo running pure actuator pressure. To do the testing, Dave simply disconnected the turbo's electric N75 valve and plugged in a separate one, which kept the ECU thinking nothing was changed. But with the turbo's valve powered off, it directs all boost to the actuator, thusly getting you "actuator pressure" performance.
> 
> I'm guessing FrankenTurbo is new to most of you reading this thread, but for those of you who are familiar with me in the 1.8T forums, you know I have a thing for charts and graphs. I love 'em. So let's have a look-see at the test car's first day with the turbo...
> 
> ...


 
Keep up the great work. Thanks for sharing the info/graphs too.


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## FLMKVDUB (Nov 11, 2009)

Definitely in for results with GIAC. I wonder if they'll offer a discount on an upgrade from their x-plus software?


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## Turbolars (May 22, 2010)

How will the frankenturbo work with my Edition 30 GTI? 

Mods: 
-Autotech Sport Tuning 2,0T FSi Hi-Volume Fuel Pump UpGrade kit. 
-Forge bov 
-Miltek 3"Turbo-back Exhaust System. No resonator 
-Audi OEM S3 Hose Kit. 
-Audi S3 OEM Intercooler. 
-VF Engineering 2,0T FSi K04 Air Intake. 
-Audi RS4 B7 OEM Fuel Pressure Regulator Valve. 

(30Edition gti comes with the S3 injectors and upgraded internals as standard.) 

I run with the highoutput Giac softvare pushing 27psi. 

Can i do a turbo swap and use my current tune and gain alot of power? 

Regards from 
Norway


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Turbolars said:


> How will the frankenturbo work with my Edition 30 GTI?
> 
> Can i do a turbo swap and use my current tune and gain alot of power?


 
You'd definitely need to re-tune to request higher boost and airflows. At that point, you'd have more power. I don't know what your idea of "a lot" is, though.


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## Turbolars (May 22, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> You'd definitely need to re-tune to request higher boost and airflows. At that point, you'd have more power. I don't know what your idea of "a lot" is, though.


 I Guess i new that.  I was hoping for maybe 420-440hp at crank with a proper giac tune with my mods? 

Guess i need the 600hp cts ic too!


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

Whats max power with stock rods?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Whats max power with stock rods?


 Read the thread or search my friend..


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GTI08MKV said:


> Whats max power with stock rods?


 Here's another answer: the stock rods represent a budget. Conventional wisdom says 300 wheel torque is a maximum torque ceiling. That's your budget. To be realistic about that number, you should use the happiest dyno -- a DynoJet -- and use non-corrected values (in other words: real-time, actual values) when tuning. Given those limitations, to make exciting power you need to be generating that 300 torque figure well past the 5252rpm crossover.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

I didnt feel like searching...The reason i asked was im revo k04 and if im going to run a frankenturbo and need rods at high boost id rather keep my tuner and get a garret 3071r but if i can make a decent amount of power over where im at now i will strongly consider going with your turbo 👍


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> I didnt feel like searching...The reason i asked was im revo k04 and if im going to run a frankenturbo and need rods at high boost id rather keep my tuner and get a garret 3071r but if i can make a decent amount of power over where im at now i will strongly consider going with your turbo 👍


 what's your idea of "high boost" ? If you follow the thread you've basically answered your own questions.. My car put down about 342whp and 305ftlbs of torque without rods reliably. Don't get me wrong you can run higher boost on either a F23 or a GT3071r but you will need the right mods, like rods, tune, map sensor, etc...


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

GTI08MKV said:


> I didnt feel like searching...The reason i asked was im revo k04 and if im going to run a frankenturbo and need rods at high boost id rather keep my tuner and get a garret 3071r but if i can make a decent amount of power over where im at now i will strongly consider going with your turbo 👍


 Lets go forward and not backwards. Like A3 said. All your questions are answered in previous posts. If you read it would of resulted in lesd of your energy used to type.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

Answers were great ... I guess i will go forward... Rods and a 3071 kit


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Answers were great ... I guess i will go forward... Rods and a 3071 kit


 :thumbup:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

3071 kit definitely wields you with more power than the f23t but this kit is purely a means to an end... It cant even compete with other k04 kits as it would be an unfair match against the f23t`s price and power output.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

filthyillness said:


> 3071 kit definitely wields you with more power than the f23t but this kit is purely a means to an end... It cant even compete with other k04 kits as it would be an unfair match against the f23t`s price and power output.
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


 :laugh::thumbup:


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

so i know everything is still in the works, but my question is- 
will there be a standard tune where the setting is idk like 350whp and 305tq (just for example)? 
or is it going to be a deal where you have to go to a dealer and have them tune your car in with a dyno?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

pb4life545 said:


> so i know everything is still in the works, but my question is-
> will there be a standard tune where the setting is idk like 350whp and 305tq (just for example)?
> or is it going to be a deal where you have to go to a dealer and have them tune your car in with a dyno?


 well from what can be gathered its going to be a base file tune from Frankenturbo that will then be either installed from: an authorized dealer you can get the suite and download the file then upload to the ecu. more or less the file will contain parameters for basic upgrades such as high pressure fuel pump, intake, exhaust, the turbo, etc... my guess would be if you were to go to a dealer and have them install the tune but you would have to go back to have them re tune for any modifications such as rods or you can buy the suite, learn how to tune and do all of the modifying of the parameters yourself.

Tapatalk 2.0


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

pb4life545 said:


> so i know everything is still in the works, but my question is-
> will there be a standard tune where the setting is idk like 350whp and 305tq (just for example)?
> or is it going to be a deal where you have to go to a dealer and have them tune your car in with a dyno?


 The off the shelf tune will be available which will be already dialed in for you. The maestro suite is discounted at 20% off at the time of purchase. The whole suite will allow you to fine tune in the future in the event you do get rods or even go with an even larger turbo or injectors.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

A3Performance said:


> The off the shelf tune will be available which will be already dialed in for you. The maestro suite is discounted at 20% off at the time of purchase. The whole suite will allow you to fine tune in the future in the event you do get rods or even go with an even larger turbo or injectors.


 Theyre gonna be offering the suite in conjunction with the f23t kit??

Tapatalk 2.0


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> Theyre gonna be offering the suite in conjunction with the f23t kit??
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


 

Coming from the guy who is all read the thread all questions are answered!!"  

Yes, go back a couple pages. Doug posts a link and a discount code. 

That's what I've ordered. He also said he will try and get the Maestro suite shipped first if possible, due to the turbos not shipping until first week of May. I hope to have my Maestro kit arrive any day now, if he was able to get it shipped. I've already ordered. Can't wait.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

filthyillness said:


> well from what can be gathered its going to be a base file tune from Frankenturbo that will then be either installed from: an authorized dealer you can get the suite and download the file then upload to the ecu. more or less the file will contain parameters for basic upgrades such as high pressure fuel pump, intake, exhaust, the turbo, etc... my guess would be if you were to go to a dealer and have them install the tune but you would have to go back to have them re tune for any modifications such as rods or you can buy the suite, learn how to tune and do all of the modifying of the parameters yourself.
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


 say i do buy the suite, how would i be taught to use it, will there be a "tuning for dummies" video/book involved haha? and do you know what the "off the shelf" tunes numbers will be whp/wtq


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

xtravbx said:


> Coming from the guy who is all read the thread all questions are answered!!"
> 
> Yes, go back a couple pages. Doug posts a link and a discount code.
> 
> That's what I've ordered. He also said he will try and get the Maestro suite shipped first if possible, due to the turbos not shipping until first week of May. I hope to have my Maestro kit arrive any day now, if he was able to get it shipped. I've already ordered. Can't wait.


 My fault. At times, I'm busy at work and tapatalk doesn't update to me all the new posts. I try to get back to where I left off reading but It's been super busy at work. I'm off for the next 3 days so I'm going to hope over to the GolfMKV forums and check on the Eurodyne Maestro tuning thread they have going on. There's a lot of gooooood information there on using the suite in general.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

pb4life545 said:


> say i do buy the suite, how would i be taught to use it, will there be a "tuning for dummies" video/book involved haha? and do you know what the "off the shelf" tunes numbers will be whp/wtq


 Well if the off the shelf file is based on A3's Audi then I suppose somwhere around the 320-340 range...?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> My fault. At times, I'm busy at work and tapatalk doesn't update to me all the new posts. I try to get back to where I left off reading but It's been super busy at work. I'm off for the next 3 days so I'm going to hope over to the GolfMKV forums and check on the Eurodyne Maestro tuning thread they have going on. There's a lot of gooooood information there on using the suite in general.


 I have both been looking forward to, as well as avoiding that thread. 

1) there's definitely a bit over my head 
2) I won't stop reading for hours.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I am very interested in this turbo, the price is great. I was originally going to go with a APR K04 kit, I almost put my order in for a F23T but have been a little hesitant. From my understanding APR's tune is a little soft and they have a updated K04 that may or may not be coming out so I have been a little put off by their offering.

My biggest issue is tuning, I have an APR tune now and have been hesitant to use a tune I know nothing about (Mastero). Theres the cost associated with the F23T flash vs the free K04 flash for exsisting APR customers as well. I don't know of any kind of track record or history with Mastero, I know there were issues found with others K04 flashes that ended up bending rods (Or whatevers, that has been discussed and refuted). I am really excited that GIAC has reportedly been working on a tune for this. I want to see how others are making out in 6 months or so just to be cautious. My car isnt a daily driver anymore but I would still like to avoid breaking things.

Have any full dyno charts been published? I would love to compare this to a K04 tune.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> I am very interested in this turbo, the price is great. I was originally going to go with a APR K04 kit, I almost put my order in for a F23T but have been a little hesitant. From my understanding APR's tune is a little soft and they have a updated K04 that may or may not be coming out so I have been a little put off by their offering.
> 
> My biggest issue is tuning, I have an APR tune now and have been hesitant to use a tune I know nothing about (Mastero). Theres the cost associated with the F23T flash vs the free K04 flash for exsisting APR customers as well. I don't know of any kind of track record or history with Mastero, I know there were issues found with others K04 flashes that ended up bending rods (Or whatevers, that has been discussed and refuted). I am really excited that GIAC has reportedly been working on a tune for this. I want to see how others are making out in 6 months or so just to be cautious. My car isnt a daily driver anymore but I would still like to avoid breaking things.
> 
> Have any full dyno charts been published? I would love to compare this to a K04 tune.


 Maestro is the name of the suite by Eurodyne. They've been around the block for a long time now, as for APR K04 flash, it's not free call them up and you'll see. Rods bending is all due to a tune that is too aggressive especially on how much torque it's actually puts down. As for dyno's check out the beginning of the thread, there is plenty of data, dyno, media, etc.. for you to see..


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GTI2Slow said:


> I am very interested in this turbo, the price is great....My biggest issue is tuning, I have an APR tune now and have been hesitant to use a tune I know nothing about (Mastero).


 I hear you. I'd feel that way too. Let's see what develops. :thumbup:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I hear you. I'd feel that way too. Let's see what develops. :thumbup:


 
Is there any reading between the lines in your response to the APR question? That'd be bitchin if APR came up with a tune for the f23t.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> Is there any reading between the lines in your response to the APR question? That'd be bitchin if APR came up with a tune for the f23t.


 Unfortunately that will never happen.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

A3Performance said:


> As for dyno's check out the beginning of the thread, there is plenty of data, dyno, media, etc.. for you to see..


 I'm not interested in peak numbers but more so on power delivery, I want quick spool and a wiiiide power band. There seems to be a reduction in the 3-4K range on the dyno in the first page, dunno if this is the tq limiting or a fuel limitation. I understand that that tune isn't final so I don't want to judge based on that.



Brokenparts said:


> Is there any reading between the lines in your response to the APR question? That'd be bitchin if APR came up with a tune for the f23t.


 I'm pretty shocked _somebody_ hasn't spread their usual FUD all over this thread yet.

Anyhoo, I am looking forward to updates. I'm really interested in how this GIAC flash will pan out. The F23T has held me off on purchasing a K04, Id really like to get hard numbers to compare both turbos against each other with different tunes. It looks like the F23 has way more potential in the upper RPM range where the K04 starts to choke, but I dunno the tradeoff in how fast the F23 will spool compared to the K04.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> I'm not interested in peak numbers but more so on power delivery, I want quick spool and a wiiiide power band. There seems to be a reduction in the 3-4K range on the dyno in the first page, dunno if this is the tq limiting or a fuel limitation. I understand that that tune isn't final so I don't want to judge based on that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 How can I say it since I've upgraded to this turbo thanks to Doug it's been awesome. I was in the market for a K04, but this setup has really opened my eyes. It's stupid fast for everyday driving, I tend to get too happy sometimes considering the roads by me are very congested. Once the finalization of the tune is done I promise you won't be disappointed its night and day to a stage 2+ tune. I clearly remember the convo with Doug over the phone, hey man you gotta understand this is a car that is now literally producing well over 100whp than your old setup and I was like yea bring it. I've toyed around with other cars and this thing still doesn't disappoint at all, if your still hesitant don't look no further!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Props go out to [email protected], Force Fed Engineering, and Chris Tapp at Eurodyne for giving the community an opportunity to run such a smooth setup with power for everyday driving!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GTI2Slow said:


> I want quick spool and a wiiiide power band. There seems to be a reduction in the 3-4K range on the dyno in the first page, dunno if this is the tq limiting or a fuel limitation. I understand that that tune isn't final so I don't want to judge based on that.


 FrankenTurbo "owns" spool. No other aftermarket performance turbo emphasizes it like we do. Yes, that comes with a penalty at the top end -- dyno horsepower numbers aren't as sexy as they could be -- but the F23T is meant to offer a unique driving experience. That's the whole notion behind a "hybrid" turbo. 

That reduction in power on the dyno just reflects the software reining in the turbo for hardware protection. 300wh torque is the informal limit, so we targeted that.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> FrankenTurbo "owns" spool. No other aftermarket performance turbo emphasizes it like we do. Yes, that comes with a penalty at the top end -- dyno horsepower numbers aren't as sexy as they could be -- but the F23T is meant to offer a unique driving experience. That's the whole notion behind a "hybrid" turbo.
> 
> That reduction in power on the dyno just reflects the software reining in the turbo for hardware protection. 300wh torque is the informal limit, so we targeted that.


 I'm a torque guy so I love hearing this. HP is cool and all but I love being able to smoke the tires and get going quickly. Nothing brings a smile more quickly to my face than to be sat back into my seat. 

Real world traction might be more of a limiting factor than anything...


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

This thread has finally inspired me to throw the Rods in...still waiting to hear from GIAC but the time is right.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm gonna order this monday. But before I do... 


CAN WE PLEASE GET A SOLID ANSWER ON WHETHER OR NOT WE NEED THE RS4 FUEL RETURN VALVE???


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Pure.Dope said:


> I'm gonna order this monday. But before I do...
> 
> 
> CAN WE PLEASE GET A SOLID ANSWER ON WHETHER OR NOT WE NEED THE RS4 FUEL RETURN VALVE???


 They say its tuned @ 120 bar. Any tune under 130 bar won't need it.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Rub-ISH said:


> This thread has finally inspired me to throw the Rods in...still waiting to hear from GIAC but the time is right.


 I know the F23T is a budget friendly alternative but I would love to see what it can do without the factory rods (or injectors) limiting it.


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

So is the price on the turbo going up after May 1st? Or is the software just not going to be discounted after that....


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

TurboChrisB said:


> So is the price on the turbo going up after May 1st? Or is the software just not going to be discounted after that....


 Software will not be receiving the 20% off.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> I know the F23T is a budget friendly alternative but I would love to see what it can do without the factory rods (or injectors) limiting it.


 Pick one up, install rods and Uprated injectors and please post back. I would love to know myself but considering this turbo is not out yet publicly it's only a matter of time till its done.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Pick one up, install rods and Uprated injectors and please post back. I would love to know myself but considering this turbo is not out yet publicly it's only a matter of time till its done.


 I'll drop rods in mine if they'll donate the f23t.  That way they can test the water/meth too. 


:laugh:


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Brokenparts said:


> I'll drop rods in mine if they'll donate the f23t.  That way they can test the water/meth too.


 You ever get around to getting the FMIC installed and on a dyno?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

GTI2Slow said:


> You ever get around to getting the FMIC installed and on a dyno?


 FMIC is installed along with the BSH throttle pipe but I have been lazy/busy and still didnt get my water/meth installed (re-doing my garage too). I was considering selling the snow kit off as there will be very limited benefit running the f23t since I dont have rods. Now if I could somehow swing the rods... Id install the kit. lol. 

its ready to go for either install or for sale:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Hands on with "test car #1"*

Yesterday I had the pleasure of spending a beautiful spring day in the bucolic Pennsylvania countryside with Chris Birgl of CBTuning. I was there to visit the first car ever fitted with an F23T. Here's a look at the shop and setting for the day's work. 70 degrees and breezy. What a great way to work. 






































We had two things to cover: adjusting the turbo for good behavior in the hilly Eastern PA terrain, and dialing up the "go" a bit. 

First: making nice 

The turbo as delivered to CBTuning was set for a very aggressive preload and with an aggressive turbine side. That combination exhibited a nasty condition people call "surge". The anomaly would happen at low engine speeds and heavy torque requests (i.e full throttle, 6th gear, steep incline). So for most drivers, this was probably a non-issue. But this particular test car showed a fault that other customers might also experience, so between CBTuning, Chris at Eurodyne & little ole me, we really wanted to tackle it. We started off already knowing that "surge" like this can occur on K04 setups as well, but not all of them. So this felt like a tuning issue as well as a hardware one. 

For some time, Chris Birgl worked directly with Chris Tapp at Eurodyne to identify hardware and software changes that impacted the issue. So when I dropped by yesterday, they'd pretty much already identified what would work. Chris B. had installed a revised turbo prototype with a freer-flowing hot-side. And Chris T. had been reviewing logs and sending modified flashes for testing. Which meant that yesterday was all about me swooping in to wrap things up, enjoy the sunshine and generally play the hero. Very quickly we settled upon a boost duty control map which softened low-speed boost, and which kept the turbo from pushing too much air. The surging was gone. So with that dialed in, we got to move on to the funner part. 

Second: performance mapping. 

With the altered boost mapping. I was concerned that the turbo might be unacceptably laggy. But in our first WOT passes, it was performing quite smartly. So I set about raising boost requests, gradually upping the values until we reached as rod-safe boost curve. In these graphs, you can see the progress from "b" to "f" (the "a" file cleared up surging). 











Those of you who are really paying attention might notice that the boost duties in this car are a lot higher than on the Audi A3. This is because we wanted to see how well the turbo would perform with a milder actuator preload. So these charts reflect zeroed duty at low engine speeds and reduced preload. The impact on top-end boost is noticeable. On the other car, it's tightly preloaded turbo netted boost levels of 25psi past redline. So what's the hit on airflows? 











Peak airflows of 270 grams/second is actually quite good. Especially since timing advance is in the double-digits shortly after peak boost is reached. And certainly the last file, the one with the best airflows, felt really lively through the midrange. All of which demonstrates that our production-version F23T can go out at a more conservative preload. If we want it to. This is something we will finalize with Eurodyne & GIAC in the coming days. 

Next up: a quick video of the car in action. Thanks again to Chris & Chris, and especially to the car's owner for his patience throughout this lengthy R&D process. :thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Will the actuator preload all be set by the May 1st ship date?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

pure.dope said:


> will the actuator preload all be set by the may 1st ship date?


 yes. 100%


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

I have been experiencing a terrible boost flutter for quite some time...on my K04. I hope that in the end the F23T can help with that. Its been driving me nuts for equally as long 

My car flows tons of Air and I have never been able to get an off the shelf tune dialed in enough to get it under control. GIAC and APR both have the same issue on my current K04. 

very excited for the potential of this turbo spool time and strengthened bottom end. Seems like the perfect commuter turbo


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Got my Maestro kit in the mail. 

Unable to read my multi program APR ECU. Emailed Chris @ Eurodyne. Will let everyone know what he says. 

I imagine a lot of us going F23T are switching from a different tuner, not sure if that's causing the issue or what. 

It's able to talk to my ECU just fine, it just cannot read the program. Tried putting it in program 1 which is stock program on ECU, still no cigar.


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

I switched from apr to eurodyne with no issues


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

That "read" function is oriented to stock, unmolested ECU software. Any chipped car will have encrypted software, naturally. That way nobody (hopefully) can get a look at what the tuners did. But Maestro can be installed nevertheless. It simply requires a different set of steps, which C.Tapp can walk you through.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Rub-ISH said:


> I have been experiencing a terrible boost flutter for quite some time...on my K04. *I hope that in the end the F23T can help with that*. GIAC and APR both have the same issue on my current K04.


 You know what? That's my hope as well. I've spent hours reading threads dedicated to the evil K04 "surge" and feel strongly that our fixes to the F23T would be applicable to K04 users as well. I already know this: the problem isn't owing to some exotic factor like intake manifold part numbers, or diverter valve versions, or even the transmission type. It's just compressor surge at low engine speeds. It's annoying, but fixable.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> That "read" function is oriented to stock, unmolested ECU software. Any chipped car will have encrypted software, naturally. That way nobody (hopefully) can get a look at what the tuners did. But Maestro can be installed nevertheless. It simply requires a different set of steps, which C.Tapp can walk you through.


 
:thumbup: 

That's what I assumed, but was bored and wanted to just toss this out there.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A fun bit of video showing "test car #1" in action. Closed course, naturally.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I assume this car just happened to have S3 injectors before the F23T... Is the engine built?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> I assume this car just happened to have S3 injectors before the F23T... Is the engine built?


 He already had the S3's with plans of a K04 till the F23 went in. Engine is not built, so far we have OEM injectors and S3's to give the members an opportunity of both options.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Stock motor with S3 injectors. So now we have the basis for two fueling files in the Eurodyne library. CBTuning dynoed it earlier today. Good numbers, but shy of those by A3Performance (you're still the king, sir). I'll post data logs taken while on the rollers. Chris will have a sheet to post shortly (haven't seen it myself, so don't ask).


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Great, I got s3 injectors when I was planning on getting a k04. Just need to know what the availibility of a s3 injector and rod tune would be. 

A F23T upgrade keeps sounding better and better all the time.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Eurodyne Maestro S3 file versus stock injector file (logs from the dynos)*

I have put together a couple of comparison graphs taken from the two test cars during their respective dyno pulls. Here they are, labeled by fueling type: 




















Based on these two charts, you'd expect the S3 injectors car to have the edge on the dyno. That's quite a bit more reported airflows. But the stock fueling car does have better timing advance. Plus it was running 25psi at redline versus the other's 20psi. My suspicion is that the stock fueling car's aftermarket intake MAF housing is mis-reporting airflow values. I don't understand how there can be such a healthy aftermarket in non-standard size MAFs on these cars. Everyone's car has to adapt fueling for the screwy airflow errors. Anyway, here too is a look at the S3 car's fuel rail pressures. 











No issues there. Nice and steady. Tomorrow I hope to receive the data files for the DynoJet runs, which I can then compare back-to-back with its earlier counterpart.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Any word on when the preorders are going to be shipping Doug?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Just throwing it out there... I'd rather them ship later than expected if it means the software (or even hardware) configuration is more complete.:thumbup:


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I have put together a couple of comparison graphs taken from the two test cars during their respective dyno pulls. Here they are, labeled by fueling type:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I've gone to great lengths to try and find the perfect maf sizing for an aftermarket intake. I originally had the Evoms, then I switched to the eurojet (also added an laminar air straightener out of Mazada speed 3), then I bought the VwR intake...figuring that if VW made it would be close to perfect as an intake MAF could be. Boy was I wrong. My current setup consists of the lower half of eurojet coupled to the maf section of the VWR. Still get flutter on WOT but it is the least of all the previous incarnations 

I am hoping the F23t set up can be my final solution. I am a little concerned with the airflow readout of the stock injector car. I would be awesome if we could all just have one agree upon Aftermarket MAF


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Are you looking to find the best diameter on the intake, location if the maf sensor, and travel distance of the intake or what? Im utilizing the neuspeed intake, a full setup. Seems alright with minimal turbulence but then again I havent ran any tests nor researched for those that have.

Any links to pics of your setup or perhaps a quick singular pic of your intake display?

Tapatalk 2.0


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> Are you looking to find the best diameter on the intake, location if the maf sensor, and travel distance of the intake or what? Im utilizing the neuspeed intake, a full setup. Seems alright with minimal turbulence but then again I havent ran any tests nor researched for those that have.
> 
> Any links to pics of your setup or perhaps a quick singular pic of your intake display?
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


 
I have the Neuspeed as well. No real tests, but MPG is good, knock readout is fine, etc. 

I'll run more tests when F23T is installed. Anxiously awaiting shipment!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I have the Neuspeed as well. No real tests, but MPG is good, knock readout is fine, etc.
> 
> I'll run more tests when F23T is installed. Anxiously awaiting shipment!


 log you're current Fuel trims and MAF readings to give you a baseline prior to the F23 upgrade.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> log you're current Fuel trims and MAF readings to give you a baseline prior to the F23 upgrade.


 Good call. Will hook up the vag com when I get a chance. Been too busy w/ work for fun. 

Also got my first ticket in YEARS so driving hard has lost its appeal for awhile.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Good call. Will hook up the vag com when I get a chance. Been too busy w/ work for fun.
> 
> *Also got my first ticket in YEARS so driving hard has lost its appeal for awhile*.


 That will probably go out the window once you get to play with the F23..


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> That will probably go out the window once you get to play with the F23..


 I know it. I'm thinking I will take my time doing the installation. 

I need to do intercooler, downpipe, turbo, and upgrade the HPFP. I'd like to just put it up on blocks in the drive, and take a week or 2 to install, and score a second car to drive less spirited. 

Back on topic though, I'm super excited for the new toys to arrive...


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I know it. I'm thinking I will take my time doing the installation.
> 
> I need to do intercooler, downpipe, turbo, and upgrade the HPFP. I'd like to just put it up on blocks in the drive, and take a week or 2 to install, and score a second car to drive less spirited.
> 
> Back on topic though, I'm super excited for the new toys to arrive...


 :thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Can't wait for mine to arrive :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Dynos of test cars #1 and #2*

Chris Birgl of CBTuning has forwarded the data files from the dyno he did to "test car #1" early this week. This car has a much softer actuator preload than the Audi A3 has. And the dyno shows the impact. Spool is slightly slower and the top end begins to fall off sooner, resulting in a lower peak hp. Here are the two graphs side by side. 











Over the week, we have been working with AUTuning to determine a "GoldiLocks" point for the actuator. My judgment is that the newest dyno reflects too weak a preload. So Dave Marsh at Auto Union is testing his car with a more aggressive setting. Provided he feels boost "surge" isn't happening, GIAC will tune based on that.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Chris Birgl of CBTuning has forwarded the data files from the dyno he did to "test car #1" early this week. This car has a much softer actuator preload than the Audi A3 has. And the dyno shows the impact. Spool is slightly slower and the top end begins to fall off sooner, resulting in a lower peak hp. Here are the two graphs side by side.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Doug the preload you guys will try on Auto Union's test car will be at 1 bar or higher?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Also, will the turbos ship with whatever preload that is most similar to a3performance, or will we have to adjust it on arrival? 

Only curious


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> Also, will the turbos ship with whatever preload that is most similar to a3performance, or will we have to adjust it on arrival?


 There will be *one preload standard*. No guesswork for customers. It looks as though it will be lower than what is on A3Performance's car. Such extreme preload would lead to part-throttle surging in some cases. Not all. Some. Nevertheless we have to determine a "one size fits all" preload and submit that spec to the tuning houses. They need consistency from turbo to turbo, so that's the plan.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Any update on the GIAC tune? Are all tunes planned to be "stock rod safe" or will there be more aggressive tunes for those with upgraded rods?

The TSI seems to of gotten a lot more out of this turbo, is it a combination of lower CR and better rods?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Probably stronger rods, so they can realize the full potential of the turbo. They probably limited the boost or some such thing with the FSI tune


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> Any update on the GIAC tune? Are all tunes planned to be "stock rod safe" or will there be more aggressive tunes for those with upgraded rods?
> 
> The TSI seems to of gotten a lot more out of this turbo, is it a combination of lower CR and better rods?


 TSI, has better stock fueling, lower compression and beefier rods. Doesn't necessarily mean that the FSI can't hang, trust me!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> Probably stronger rods, so they can realize the full potential of the turbo. They probably limited the boost or some such thing with the FSI tune


 The tune was conservatively accounted for longevity and reliability without sacrificing good power that is affordable.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Rub-ISH said:


> I have been experiencing a terrible boost flutter for quite some time...on my K04. I hope that in the end the F23T can help with that. Its been driving me nuts for equally as long
> 
> My car flows tons of Air and I have never been able to get an off the shelf tune dialed in enough to get it under control. GIAC and APR both have the same issue on my current K04.
> 
> very excited for the potential of this turbo spool time and strengthened bottom end. Seems like the perfect commuter turbo


 Back off on the actuator rod adjustment.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GTI2Slow said:


> Any update on the GIAC tune? Are all tunes planned to be "stock rod safe" or will there be more aggressive tunes for those with upgraded rods?


 I don't have a lot of say in how GIAC chooses to define their software for this turbo. They have their own business to run and need to go with whatever they think will be the most successful. But they have agreed to tune based on stock fuel injectors, so it seems really likely that they would target stock engine internals as well.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I don't have a lot of say in how GIAC chooses to define their software for this turbo. They have their own business to run and need to go with whatever they think will be the most successful. But they have agreed to tune based on stock fuel injectors, so it seems really likely that they would target stock engine internals as well.


 lets hope. i dont need bent rods. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*GIAC tuning update*

AUTuning has delivered their test car to GIAC for tuning this week. Before they did that, they test drove the car on a mid-range actuator preload. Satisfied that boost surge wasn't an issue, they logged it and dynoed it. Here are the street logs showing performance while running on the new actuator preload: 




















The setup for the car is a modest Stage1 GIAC flash. It has a Golf-R intercooler and an Ebay downpipe. Interestingly, it's also got an upgraded HPFP installed, although this software version doesn't request elevated fuel pressures. So it seems clear that the "stock" fuel rail pressure is able to support this level of power. 

Speaking of power... 











I'm sure everyone is going to say, "Hey, where'd that 285whp go?" Well, as I indicated before, the turbo has to go out at a preload which is "surge-safe". So while its not going to output the kind of power we got initially, it will avoid the headaches which many K04 owners still deal with. Also, one other thing to note. The Dyno Dynamics is a heartbreaker. What matters is how the car feels while driving it temporarily on actuator pressure. Is it a dog? Do you miss your old K03? I'm confident peoples' answers will be "NO".


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

So, will we still be ~350 whp capable with an hpfp and maestro?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

When you say stage 1 tune, I assume you're talking about the normal stage 1 k03 tune? Not specific to the Frankenturbo? So this is for folks that can't yet get the correct tune?


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## FLMKVDUB (Nov 11, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> When you say stage 1 tune, I assume you're talking about the normal stage 1 k03 tune? Not specific to the Frankenturbo? So this is for folks that can't yet get the correct tune?


 Thats what it sounds like, just running the X+ software for the K03 since GIAC hasnt written a tune for the F23T yet. 



[email protected] said:


> *AUTuning has delivered their test car to GIAC for tuning this week. Before they did that, they test drove the car on a mid-range actuator preload.* Satisfied that boost surge wasn't an issue, they logged it and dynoed it. Here are the street logs showing performance while running on the new actuator preload:


 Even though that dyno may be conservative, a K03 with the same software and bolt-ons would probably put down the same #'s. With the correct tune specific for the F23T though whether it be Eurodyne or whatever GIAC comes up with, those #'s would be closer to what the other two test cars put down. I think this just illustrates that its possible to bolt it on with K03 software as long as you run on actuator pressure until you can get the correct tune for it.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I would think the F23T can provide that power all the way to redline where the K03 would choke pretty quickly.

My plans prior to hearing of the f23t was to drop in a set of IE rods and install a K04, while the intake manifold was off for the S3 injector install I would install a RFD kit and clean the valves. The GIAC extreme file seems to be putting down quite a bit of power and there was some info floating around about a updated APR flash.

I'm really curious to see how this works out, hopefully there will be some aggressive tunes available, I really don't know anyone local that can tune with mastero and I'd like to keep things simple.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> I would think the F23T can provide that power all the way to redline where the K03 would choke pretty quickly.
> 
> My plans prior to hearing of the f23t was to drop in a set of IE rods and install a K04, while the intake manifold was off for the S3 injector install I would install a RFD kit and clean the valves. The GIAC extreme file seems to be putting down quite a bit of power and there was some info floating around about a updated APR flash.
> 
> I'm really curious to see how this works out, hopefully there will be some aggressive tunes available, I really don't know anyone local that can tune with mastero and I'd like to keep things simple.


 APR will not release another FSI file, the most they are working with is with the GOLF R's which slightly lower compression, beefier rods and different cam. They mentioned once that they can probably share that file if you met those requirements. It's pointless honestly when the F23T will outperform it. As for the Maestro, what do you have to worry about with tuning, buy the suite get the file loaded on. I'm not tuner, and i've been able to accomplish that so don't sweat it.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

FLMKVDUB said:


> Thats what it sounds like, just running the X+ software for the K03 since GIAC hasnt written a tune for the F23T yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Even though that dyno may be conservative, a K03 with the same software and bolt-ons would probably put down the same #'s. With the correct tune specific for the F23T though whether it be Eurodyne or whatever GIAC comes up with, those #'s would be closer to what the other two test cars put down. I think this just illustrates that its possible to bolt it on with K03 software as long as you run on actuator pressure until you can get the correct tune for it.


 The problem I would see is with running on K03 software is it will run higher boost levels than actuator pressure. These ECU's are pretty adaptive and can correct themselves rather efficiently. I would say yea install the F23 but dont do any WOT on K03 software till the right tune is in place.


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## FLMKVDUB (Nov 11, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> The problem I would see is with running on K03 software is it will run higher boost levels than actuator pressure. These ECU's are pretty adaptive and can correct themselves rather efficiently. I would say yea install the F23 but dont do any WOT on K03 software till the right tune is in place.


 Wouldn't hurt to throw a manual boost controller on as well. I would only do it to drive 50-100 miles to the nearest GIAC dealer for the correct tune.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> When you say stage 1 tune, I assume you're talking about the normal stage 1 k03 tune? Not specific to the Frankenturbo? So this is for folks that can't yet get the correct tune?





FLMKVDUB said:


> ... running the X+ software for the K03 since GIAC hasnt written a tune for the F23T yet... a K03 with the same software and bolt-ons would probably put down the same #'s. With the correct tune specific for the F23T though whether it be Eurodyne or whatever GIAC comes up with, those #'s would be closer to what the other two test cars put down. I think this just illustrates that its possible to bolt it on with K03 software as long as you run on actuator pressure until you can get the correct tune for it.





FLMKVDUB said:


> Wouldn't hurt to throw a manual boost controller on as well. I would only do it to drive 50-100 miles to the nearest GIAC dealer for the correct tune.


 
All of you guys are correct. I know it's seemingly odd for me to trumpet low dyno numbers while running completely inadequate software, but remember your budgets: are you going to be able to afford turbo, software, clutch, intercooler all in one go? A good number of you will not. So these dynos on K03 mods and software are simply to show what to expect if you simply swap turbos. 

...and based on what we're determining, you can't expect the moon. Unless, of course, you run our MBC in parallel with the turbo's own N75 valve and up the boost a touch. Under those circumstances, you can still rock numbers like these:


----------



## RizerGLI (Mar 23, 2007)

I think its funny how i clicked on this thread by accident and now two hours later of reading, i want one  

Alot of good knowledge ive learned on this thread, appreciate it!:thumbup:


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

RizerGLI said:


> I think its funny how i clicked on this thread by accident and now two hours later of reading, i want one
> 
> Alot of good knowledge ive learned on this thread, appreciate it!:thumbup:


 :thumbup:


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

RizerGLI said:


> I think its funny how i clicked on this thread by accident and now two hours later of reading, i want one
> 
> Alot of good knowledge ive learned on this thread, appreciate it!:thumbup:


 Do it now! I did. 

My awesome tech is installing it along w/ my t-belt. Giving me super sweet deal bro.


----------



## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I might have an ”accident” on the way. Found out this past weekend. Will definitely put a damper in when ill be able to get this and have it installed.

Tapatalk 2.0


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I had one of those. Best thing that ever happened to me.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> I might have an ”accident” on the way. Found out this past weekend. Will definitely put a damper in when ill be able to get this and have it installed.
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


 Just wait man... that accident will be more rewarding than any silly turbo. Your making the right decision getting your priorities straight. Besides in a few years they make great wrenchin' companions: 





















Pure.Dope said:


> I had one of those. Best thing that ever happened to me.


 My kids werent accidents but they did change some of my priorities... but I do agree that they are the best things that ever happened to me. 

... and to keep this tech, any time est. on the GIAC tune?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I believe giac is working on it now. NY guess is they're tuning for the best possible intermediate between reliability and the demand in power in the best interest between the consumer and the capabilities of the f23t

Tapatalk 2.0


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I think there is a ton of interest... Probably a lot of us on the sideline waiting to see further developments and relationships develop between frakenturbo and tuning outfits like giac, eurodyne, etc. 

Probably a bit of the chicken or the egg syndrome going on... Hopefully the bigger companies will recognize that there is a huge demo graphic that this set up can cover and put some good r and d into it. I think the market is there for them to re-coup the cost of r and d.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Brokenparts said:


> I think there is a ton of interest... Probably a lot of us on the sideline waiting to see further developments and relationships develop between frakenturbo and tuning outfits like giac, eurodyne, etc.


This.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Brokenparts said:


> I think there is a ton of interest... Probably a lot of us on the sideline waiting to see further developments and relationships develop between frakenturbo and tuning outfits like giac, eurodyne, etc.


I'm just waiting for mother's day and wife's birthday to pass (same weekend) so I don't have to hear "The mouth" complain about me thinking of me before her... I'm not gonna lie, I'm thinking about F23T first lol. My birthdays the same weekend. Told her don't get me itz, trust me on this one.
But your worried about Frankenturbo and GIAC and Eurodynes relationship lol

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Why not just buy the maestro?


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> Why not just buy the maestro?



In all reality this is what I will probably end up doing. I'm one of those guys that is never satisfied so having the ability to tinker with software AND to adjust for when/if I add rods or to max my water/meth potential. Hell, I've only had my car that was bone stock for less than 6 months so I can wait just a little bit longer until I see more of the details come out. 

My only concern is going BT or f23t. I just dont want to do all the work for the f23t and wish I went BT. I think the price point of the f23t is exceptional bang for buck HP/torque. Adding rods almost defeats the purpose of the f23t in my opinion although seeing rods added to a mkv/fsi with the f23t is something I'd really like to see. As great as the f23t seems so far I just dont think it'll have the head room of a gt30xx. At the same time going BT gets exponentially more expensive. After chasing a few chevy small block and big block projects I know how expensive building motors gets... it has a snowball effect. Before you know it you've spent twice as much as you intended and your car sits in a shop waiting for that new "shiny go-fast part". Its an endless cycle.

I got out of that world and into VWs to simplify things and here I am now lol.... I think the F23t is in my near future I just want all the details to be ironed out which its seems Doug and crew are really doing a great job at. The price point, ease of install, and overall power gain is winning product in my mind. 

:thumbup:


Sorry for the random rambling... :wave:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> I think there is a ton of interest... Probably a lot of us on the sideline waiting to see further developments


And that's the great thing about having FrankenTurbo an advertiser here. The view from the sidelines is going to be terrific. Like you guys, I'm really looking forward to seeing what we all learn.

Also, there's another "playa" on the field: it's a small tuning outfit called J-Fonz Tuning. Josh there has been an enormous support for our twin turbo products in the 2.7T engine. So I asked him to throw in and tune a Mk5 on our F23T. To that end, he's already dialed in a K03 flash on a test vehicle. Next, Island Sportworks in New Jersey will install the last of our test turbos to the car for Josh to tune.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Well I already ordered. 

Doug said it should arrive soon. I will report back once installed.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> Well I already ordered.
> 
> Doug said it should arrive soon. I will report back once installed.


Super jealous man... Please keep us up to date. It's all I can do from ordering the f23t every single night. Every time doug posts the sheets and I look at the curves my mouth waters. I like the fact that not only does he post the hp/tq sheets but all the flow, duties, etc too. To me power is so much more than peak numbers. I like to see power develop on nice broad curves... This usually means nice street/dd characteristics which is going to where most of us are going to be spending most of our time. Peak numbers usually only translate to the track.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Id say the list is f23t (intermediate) or big turbo (big boy status). Either you want more power or you want MORE power.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> Id say the list is f23t (intermediate) or big turbo (big boy status). Either you want moar power or you want MOAR power.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


remember we're on vortex over here... so I fixed it for you.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Brokenparts: lol. True that.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I don't like seeing this at the bottom of the page. 

Any new info?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

filthyillness said:


> I might have an ”accident” on the way. Found out this past weekend. Will definitely put a damper in when ill be able to get this and have it installed.
> 
> Tapatalk 2.0


Get the turbo NOW....I don't get the advice of putting this kind of stuff on hold. Assuming you have health insurance and use mothers tits for formula they will only get MORE expensive with age. She'll throw a baby shower and get tons of clothes, gift certificates etc. Grand parents will buy a bunch of crap. Join a church, they bring dinner to the house (pray for good health and ball bearing turbo's). Trust me between now and 1 will be the cheapest and most help you'll get (they eat more, people stop buying you baby clothes, you can't substitute a $1 store ball as a toy etc)..

I don't know why modding has to stop with children anyway. Since my son was born almost 10 years ago I bought a house when he was 2yrs old, never stopped modding my MK4 at the time before, during or after birth, bought new 07' GTI when he was 3yrs old and did all I would have done if he weren't born. Whatever you can afford without a baby, you can afford with. I throw $100/month in a "joint" savings (wife puts in the same) for family stuff and then I have a 2nd one for myself I put in $200/month and whatever half of tax returns I get back that go to nothing else but modding or whatever meaningless hobby. I can't afford $3000 wheels or a $5000 turbo kit with or without children, single or married. 

Back on topic: 
1. Are the actuator settings now set in stone (I assume since you sent one to GIAC to tuning)?
2. Is the eurodyne/maestro tune finalized or are y'all still tinkering and fine tuning?
3. Have you reset a target date for shipping or is it whenever your finished? (I'd like it to be shipping before I part with my money)


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Because ive some other things to pay off and with something like that on the way, I'd rather make my full check instead of barely making it buy and waiting to buy things whenever i have the money. Its been a long time coming for me to pay off some debt. Its more a I gotta grow up some more so I dont set myself up for failure.

Im going to do the same thing my mother did and set the kids name under my credit so when they come of age, they'll have a good credit score.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> Because ive some other things to pay off and with something like that on the way, I'd rather make my full check instead of barely making it buy and waiting to buy things whenever i have the money.
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


Good man... glad to see you are sticking with your gut feeling. There will be plenty of time for the car later.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Exactly. I still have my mk2 to finish up but plans will most likely change as I will just go for a mild build up instead of the engine swap and turbo kit install like I was planning. Keeping it simple is always good too.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

any of you pre-order jerks get your new toys yet? Come on now... splill the beans!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> any of you pre-order jerks get your new toys yet? Come on now... splill the beans!


Nobody wants to say anything till you get yours!


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

No one has received them yet, I don't believe.

I talk to Doug regularly. I will take pics ASAP when mine arrives.

I have my Maestro / Eurodyne + flash file.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> No one has received them yet, I don't believe.
> 
> I talk to Doug regularly. I will take pics ASAP when mine arrives.
> 
> I have my Maestro / Eurodyne + flash file.


You've got all the supporting mods to make it happen?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Daaamn.. ill be starting on this toward the end of summer.

I can honestly say im excited to see some of the buikd threads that will come of this.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Still waiting for mine to ship. If it ships soon I'll have it in by the end of next week/beginning of the following. Doing t-belt along w/ it. I've got all supporting mods and then some(w/m), so should be set.

Also I've got my R8 coilpacks, spark plugs, K04 install kit from ecstuning, and a nice dash cubby all coming monday. :thumbup:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

I'll order as soon as they say they have the actuator specs pinpointed, the tune finalized and are "now shipping". I never pre order anything but I'll order the f**k out of something ready to ship


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> You've got all the supporting mods to make it happen?


Yeah just not the intercooler yet. =/

Stage 2 clutch
Fluidampr crankshaft pulley
Upgraded Mounts
Neuspeed Intake
BSH PCV plate

Went w/ Autotech HPFP upgrade
3" downpipe + cat

Just need the intercooler.. I will probably go S3 intercooler to save $$


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Still waiting for mine to ship. If it ships soon I'll have it in by the end of next week/beginning of the following. Doing t-belt along w/ it. I've got all supporting mods and then some(w/m), so should be set.
> 
> Also I've got my R8 coilpacks, spark plugs, K04 install kit from ecstuning, and a nice dash cubby all coming monday. :thumbup:



I would ditch those coilpacks..


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Yeah just not the intercooler yet. =/
> 
> Stage 2 clutch
> Fluidampr crankshaft pulley
> ...


Save a bit more and get something better than S3.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> Save a bit more and get something better than S3.



Ugh more money.

How much was your Precision + piping? How much hacking did it need to fit?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> I would ditch those coilpacks..


I thought they were needed when going K04. Am I wrong?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I would ditch those coilpacks..


I burned through 3 OE V8 FSI Audi coilpacks. Would only start missing at WOT in 2-4 gears, but chased that for a week or so til I traced it back to the coils. Basically spark was being blown out is my guess. Tried closing gap some, but no help. Run a closed gap on my OE coils now without a single issue. Running newest OE revisions and OE spark plugs closed down to .028"


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> I burned through 3 OE V8 FSI Audi coilpacks. Would only start missing at WOT in 2-4 gears, but chased that for a week or so til I traced it back to the coils. Basically spark was being blown out is my guess. Tried closing gap some, but no help. Run a closed gap on my OE coils now without a single issue. Running newest OE revisions and OE spark plugs closed down to .028"


:thumbup:

Point proven.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I would ditch those coilpacks..


Why? There's nothing wrong with that set-up.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> Why? There's nothing wrong with that set-up.




I have no first hand experience with them - but from reading - they offer no true performance gains for our motor, and only the possibility of misfires.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Ugh more money.
> 
> How much was your Precision + piping? How much hacking did it need to fit?


Core was $400, piping used was $250.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I have no first hand experience with them - but from reading - they offer no true performance gains for our motor, and only the possibility of misfires.


I haven't seen much failure rates on my end. Aesthetically looks great, if issues arise just switch back.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> I haven't seen much failure rates on my end. Aesthetically looks great, if issues arise just switch back.


Aesthetically I *LOVE* them.

Especially w/ the red harness.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I would only imagine that they do cause ever since I changed over to the red tops, ive been blowing spark plugs like crazy. Since march, ive gone through 3 sets @[email protected]

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Plugs I ordered are NGK PFR7B, they are gapped at .028". APR recommends these w/ the R8 coils. Guess I'll see how they work out.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Plugs I ordered are NGK PFR7B, they are gapped at .028". APR recommends these w/ the R8 coils. Guess I'll see how they work out.


I'm running 1 step cooler NGK Iridiums gapped at .020 with my F23.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Nobody wants to say anything till you get yours!



It's all I can do not to order one... especially when I get bored at work or at home. hahaha

I just got my W/M finished up last weekend but when I went to switch my APR program to the 100 file I found out my APR dealer put in the valet program in that slot... GRRRRR. Going in a few hours to re-flash. 

I'm also gun shy pre-odering anything so I'm hoping that the 100 file will keep me satisfied for a bit longer while the last little bit of the f23t is finalized.


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## rambag3 (May 17, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> It's all I can do not to order one... especially when I get bored at work or at home. hahaha
> 
> I just got my W/M finished up last weekend but when I went to switch my APR program to the 100 file I found out my APR dealer put in the valet program in that slot... GRRRRR. Going in a few hours to re-flash.
> 
> I'm also gun shy pre-odering anything so I'm hoping that the 100 file will keep me satisfied for a bit longer while the last little bit of the f23t is finalized.


My apr dealer reflagged me to stage 2 from 1 and put 91 instead of valet, they said valet is no longer offered for A3 is this true?
sorry to hijack but I think everyone might want to know.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> I'm running 1 step cooler NGK Iridiums gapped at .020 with my F23.


Are we gonna get an official statement from Doug on what plug and gap we should be using?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Did someone say they had issues with their maestro flash when they previously had an APR ecu? 

My maestro can't read my ecu when I try... it currently has APR 2+ on it.

On an unrelated note -- I got an APR intercooler (currently have the APR HPFP, 3" dp and milltek exhaust), I ordered a CTS turbo intake (while not necessary, it kind of simplifies things with the catch can). 

How necessary would it be to change the coils? Mine were changed about a year ago under factory recall (one crapped out and they replaced them to current rev). And for plugs, I replaced the stock plugs about a year ago with OEM. Should I check the gap, or get new plugs?


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## markillo (May 16, 2013)

hello guys, I'm new in this forum, I'm from Guatemala and I just bought the franken F23T for my Seat Leon Cupra TFSI MK2, lets see how it works... any comments are welcome. 


cheers :wave:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majic said:


> Did someone say they had issues with their maestro flash when they previously had an APR ecu?



You will have to email Chris Tapp directly @ [email protected] for information on how to flash your ECU.

Basically you'll choose the "get info" button, it pulls up all the details of your ecu, take a screen shot of that, and that's what he needs to create the file for you.

You can flash that directly over APR.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> any of you pre-order jerks get your new toys yet? Come on now... splill the beans!


Shipping delays, ugh. We'll be sending emails to buyers when we have good news from DHL tracking.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Ewww.... DHL sucks. USPS is getting there too.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Hoping to have mine by the end of next week. Pretty please.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

On a much happier note, I had a really upbeat conversation with the guys from GIAC today. The AUTuning car they're tuning is taking to their software very well. I've seen some work-in-progress logs as they dial in the turbo with stock injectors and was already pleased to see how well the car is running. It's going to be a strong software option for our product!

Thanks very much again to GIAC and AUTuning for putting this together!


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Looking forward to details (Dyno charts too) on the GIAC tune.


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## markillo (May 16, 2013)

Good news, Would be awsome get more than 300hps with stock injectors and software 

Make DHL hury up!!!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Got maestro - don't care about tuners 

:beer::thumbup::beer:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Im pretty sure if they try to push anymore power something is gonna give. What this turbo is offering dar exceeds many expectations and if I had a choice between big turbo or f23t i would go f23. The smooth power band and the power output, albeit not as much as some bigger turbos meet, its quite up there and is way more cost effective.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> Im pretty sure if they try to push anymore power something is gonna give. What this turbo is offering dar exceeds many expectations and if I had a choice between big turbo or f23t i would go f23. The smooth power band and the power output, albeit not as much as some bigger turbos meet, its quite up there and is way more cost effective.
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


I'm very curious how GIAC's software solution is going to look like. I'm interested in a nice wide power curve that'll make it fun to drive on the street. I'm not saying that Eurodyne's isnt a nice curve ... just that I'm curioius what other tuners come up with. Peak numbers are just that... peak numbers (although I do enjoy a nice bottom line too). Once upon a time ago I had a built two stroke banshee and it was fast as all hell but was only fun to drag race with. The damn thing was just a light switch because the port timing was so high. It was on or off... no in between.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

markillo said:


> Make DHL hury up!!!


I guess they heard you. The customs people finally cleared the shipment. Hehe. I can't believe I'm even posting this. Well, these turbos had darned well better be worthy of the anticipation.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I guess they heard you. The customs people finally cleared the shipment. Hehe. I can't believe I'm even posting this. Well, these turbos had darned well better be worthy of the anticipation.


Finally!

Post some pics when you get them.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I just got the word from higher echelon that I'll be able to order this within the next month myself. But I might wait and get the intercooler and upgraded hpfp first

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I guess they heard you. The customs people finally cleared the shipment. Hehe. I can't believe I'm even posting this. Well, these turbos had darned well better be worthy of the anticipation.


Woohoo!!!!! :thumbup: I can't for others to get a taste of raw affordable power!!!


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

I finally got through the whole thread! In for results!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Damn shipping delays. Hopefully I'll have this in my car at the beginning of June. I just had to replace my leaking vacuum pump. Good news is I'm running a lot smoother now. Can't wait to get my R8 coil packs and pfr7b's in


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> Can't wait to get my R8 coil packs...


Say what? School me on that.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

The red ones like a3perf has.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

They dont really do much for ya unless ur pushing as much power as a v10 fsi

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Say what? School me on that.


Doug, check out the pic of my engine bay I posted. Those coils packs are from an R8 and harness cover is the Euro cover.


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## rambag3 (May 17, 2006)

A3Performance said:


> Doug, check out the pic of my engine bay I posted. Those coils packs are from an R8 and harness cover is the Euro cover.


Like deece?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> The red ones like a3perf has.





filthyillness said:


> They dont really do much for ya unless ur pushing as much power as a v10 fsi
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk





A3Performance said:


> Doug, check out the pic of my engine bay I posted. Those coils packs are from an R8 and harness cover is the Euro cover.




I'm telling you, don't hype these up! They look cool, but not a good idea to get others in the thread to think that you should be putting them in the FSI ! 

I love how they look too, but can't say I support it as a wise choice!


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Thats what im saying. If anybody wants a set, ill trade straight up for a low mileage set if owm coil packs. My red tops have about 2k miles on em

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

getting off topic but I've had my red tops since January 2012 (according to my order review) and never had any issues thru stage 2+. Have only had one factory coil pack fail and that was replaced under warranty about 80k miles ago. I still have 4 good oem GTI coil packs but I haven't had to go back.
Anyway back in for arrived and now shipping lol. Just linked paypal to savings friday :facepalm: Think I'm going to order a clutch before software (prophylactics)


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> getting off topic but I've had my red tops since January 2012 (according to my order review) and never had any issues thru stage 2+. Have only had one factory coil pack fail and that was replaced under warranty about 80k miles ago. I still have 4 good oem GTI coil packs but I haven't had to go back.
> Anyway back in for arrived and now shipping lol. Just linked paypal to savings friday :facepalm: Think I'm going to order a clutch before software (prophylactics)



:thumbup:

Just not everyone's experience, so I'd be careful, is all.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I have done a good bit of experimentation with coils on the 20v engine. My takeaway was that the revised 1.8T units are every bit as good as those for the Mk5 and Mk6. So if performance among them is comparable, then it boils down to looks, eh? And tell me these don't look cool:


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## kermitz (Mar 17, 2013)

*Red R8 coils*

I've got a little over 10K trouble free miles on my red R8 coils.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Well, whatever. I guess if they're garbage it doesn't matter. I already installed them. It's just that everybody on vw forums says if you go K04 it's a pretty essential upgrade. Guess not


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

How is GIAC's tune coming along?


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Lets talk a bit about treating this as a blown k03 replacement. Lets say mine was toast right now with a stage 1 tune and that's it, which is a possible scenario for a lot of people out there. I could get just the turbo and run it as is and upgrade all my other stuff as money came along as long as I got the waste gate send adjusted accordingly? Then once I got a hpfp, dp, and intercooler I would remove the turbo to do something with the waste gate and retune?

Please correct any of this that is not correct. 

I wouldn't mind doing the turbo install twice if this is the case and I an get the big expensive out of the way in the beginning. Like Doug mentioned several hundred posts ago, not everyone has the money to buy all of the components at once.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Just buy the turbo and sit on it till you have enough of the suppporting upgrades to run the deal.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Tutti57 said:


> Lets talk a bit about treating this as a blown k03 replacement. Lets say mine was toast right now with a stage 1 tune and that's it, which is a possible scenario for a lot of people out there. I could get just the turbo and run it as is and upgrade all my other stuff as money came along as long as I got the waste gate send adjusted accordingly? Then once I got a hpfp, dp, and intercooler I would remove the turbo to do something with the waste gate and retune?
> 
> Please correct any of this that is not correct.
> 
> I wouldn't mind doing the turbo install twice if this is the case and I an get the big expensive out of the way in the beginning. Like Doug mentioned several hundred posts ago, not everyone has the money to buy all of the components at once.


Frankly, when committing the money to develop this turbo, we knew it would have to be suitable as a repair part. You see, that's the case with our entire product line. We're in the business of making (really great) repair parts. So for the FSI engine we have tested it on several cars running the "wrong" mods. We logged it that way. We've dynoed it that way. And this was all done because we knew many potential customers would be looking at purchasing incrementally.

So the $64,000 question: can I run this turbo temporarily on X, Y or Z mods? The answer is *yes*. And you can do it in such a way that you DO NOT have to pull it out of the car when the time comes for more power. If you want to change the actuator preload, you can do it in the car. If you want to run an MBC or other controller, you can do it in the car. If you want to add more fueling or an HPFP upgrade, you can do all those things with the turbo already in the car. And that's because we planned the product that way.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm going to play a little devils advocate here.... 

I think what your potential buyers are asking is HOW do I go about running this really great repair part?

I live in city "x" and I can't have a shop flash it more me what can I do to make this work?

I currently have mod "x" and "y" but don't have sufficient knowledge of eurodyne mastero to tune for it... Am I **** out of luck? Will the over counter tune work with my current hardware?

I am close enough to a dealer to have the flash done but want to keep my options open... Can I buy the rest of the suite later? 

I want to race Paul Walker but wondered if this upgrade is going to be enough...?


Unfortunately, I think your audience is asking you to play the "what if" scenario game.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

The eurodyne library doesn't have anything for the BPY engine code. Am I missing something? Do I need to update/upgrade something?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Not to be a whiner, but why isnt the eurodyne plug and play? Why do I have to go through a bunch of complicated steps just to get a file? Why do I have to wait for eurodyne to reply to an email to get going?. Theres not even any fsi files in the library. Just a heads up to anybody thinking about going with this kit.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

I mean -- a3performance's tune should be in the library, right?

Doug has assured us that there will be an FSI base tune?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I have the Maestro suite as well.

I have the F23T file. I also have a stage 1 base tune file. Both were delivered via email from Chris.

They took awhile to get emailed to me. Nothing is in the library currently for our motors, Pure.Dope is correct.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Doesn't really matter, I'll wait. Suppose I just expected more from an expensive tuning product.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Maybe hit them up with your feedback and they may consider working on changing it.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)




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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

:sly:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Doesn't really matter, I'll wait. Suppose I just expected more from an expensive tuning product.


Go do a quick search from the other big tuning companies who offer BT tunes. What's the going price on it??????? Once you get your file, everything else falls into place, patience it's a virtue...


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Communication is also a virtue. Eurodyne obviously lacks this. If I actually knew what was going on I wouldn't be so bitter. I am completely left in the dark by them and it doesn't instill much confidence.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Communication is also a virtue. Eurodyne obviously lacks this. If I actually knew what was going on I wouldn't be so bitter. I am completely left in the dark by them and it doesn't instill much confidence.


Gotta take into consideration that Chris Tapp is the main point of contact when it involves getting you the file, access to library, and support across the suite itself. I MYSELF, had questions and yes it might have taken a business day or so. Remember I am a tester of this kit, so you can understand where I stood on this. All the bugs have been worked out so once you receive your kit and everything is fine and dandy you'll hopefully be much happier. If there's anything I can help out as far as questions go, PM i'll do my best to answer your questions.. :thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Cool thanks. I guess I'll just shut my mouth and patiently wait for things to happen. Hope my money is hard at work.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

So, since there's no file for the FSI, that means there's no base file if someone has a k03, or there are no base files at all, at all, for the fsi?


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

Rods are going in June 1st...I have a open line with Austin at GIAC...Just thinking out loud here but should I try out the already available K04 High Output file on my current K04 or just spring for the FT and hope for the best??


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

FT sounds like it has a higher power ceiling that hasn't been met yet through testing. If going with rods you wouldn't want to limit yourself to k04.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Doug are units ready to go and shipping if an order is place or is there a wait time to get them currently?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Tutti57 said:


> FT sounds like it has a higher power ceiling that hasn't been met yet through testing. If going with rods you wouldn't want to limit yourself to k04.


Thats what I am hoping for as well. I was going to get a APR K04 +RFD kit but if the f23t has a bit more in it that would make it worthwhile.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> Thats what I am hoping for as well. I was going to get a APR K04 +RFD kit but if the f23t has a bit more in it that would make it worthwhile.


an APR K04 with an RFD kit will still make less power than an F23. Contact Doug directly and get an ETA on his turbo.. [email protected]


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I will wait for the first adopters to post some reviews and see what tunes are available. The only thing the APR kit going for it is the maturity of the support/ available tunes for the hardware that is available now.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Chris sent me the stage 2+ base file. I'm gonna load it tonight and tinker over the weekend, and report. I'm getting my F23T file Monday. Yay. The turbo has not shipped as of now. My guess would be today/tomorrow, or possibly Monday for the first batch.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Chris sent me the stage 2+ base file. I'm gonna load it tonight and tinker over the weekend, and report. I'm getting my F23T file Monday. Yay. The turbo has not shipped as of now. My guess would be today/tomorrow, or possibly Monday for the first batch.


:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

turbos are checked/balanced and ready. We're waiting on the silicone elbow adapters which connect the turbos to your cars' "turbo outlet pipes". They should be here tomorrow or Tuesday depending on UPS.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

GTI2Slow said:


> I will wait for the first adopters to post some reviews and see what tunes are available. The only thing the APR kit going for it is the maturity of the support/ available tunes for the hardware that is available now.


Yeah, but it seems its not enough as they've been developing issues over the years.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

To be fair, though, any car that's tuned beyond its stock capabilities is going to potentially develop issues. It just requires aggressive preventative maintenance, and a healthy dose of expectations management... Performance = broken parts haha


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I loaded the stage 2+ file. Wow. Much better than REVO. Not bashing, but truth. The car drives much better and I'm getting more boost in all gears. I can actually make the wheels break free in 2nd gear. I no longer have the issue where while coming to a stop the RPM's would drop to about 500 then shoot back up to 1400, then go back down to 800(DSG). It stops like a normal car. I cannot wait for the F23T. Booya!


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> I loaded the stage 2+ file. Wow. Much better than REVO. Not bashing, but truth. The car drives much better and I'm getting more boost in all gears. I can actually make the wheels break free in 2nd gear. I no longer have the issue where while coming to a stop the RPM's would drop to about 500 then shoot back up to 1400, then go back down to 800(DSG). It stops like a normal car. I cannot wait for the F23T. Booya!


eace:  :thumbup:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Stage. 2+ via maestro?

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Stage. 2+ via maestro?
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


yup


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Ill need to check that out. Eurodyne database? 

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

well y'all convinced me to go maestro again after I all but convinced myself to wait for GIAC  Can't afford either til next month if I order the turbo now. Or I can wait a month and order all at once. Thinks me is going to sell my black classix, stock engine cover/airbox, 30psi NS boost gauge and everything laying around unused. Damn!

One question: How is inventory? At this point I'm just procrastinating but if there is an actual chance of selling out and having to wait prolonged time for another shipment I could be convinced to pull the trigger now lol.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

The only problem I have right now w/ Eurodyne is that the FSI BPY files are not in the library, so they need to be requested via email. I'm hoping they can update it to include these at some point. So just remember that you won't have your base file the day you get your Maestro. Plan ahead :thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

filthyillness said:


> Stage. 2+ via maestro?
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


yep x2.

It was easy, and just to be safe I used a 10A trickle charger. I have no idea if 10A is sufficient, but nonetheless it worked. 

I was unable to read my ECU because of the encrypted REVO tune, so I was unable to send Eurodyne my current file. I had to use the info button, take a screenshot of my ECU type, and send that. I eventually got the stage 2+ base file. 

At some point today I'm going to run some logs and send them to Doug. Then when I install the FT I'll run more logs to compare.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

i want more videos of the turbo in the test cars/ finished cars. driving, pulls, burnouts, launches!


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

pb4life545 said:


> i want more videos of the turbo in the test cars/ finished cars. driving, pulls, burnouts, launches!


Yeah? You like burnouts? Im guessing you like drag racing too. ... too lame.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

pb4life545 said:


> i want more videos of the turbo in the test cars/ finished cars. driving, pulls, burnouts, launches!


Why don't you buy one and abuse your own car.. smh


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Ahhhhh yeah BURNOUTS!!!!!! Only powerful cars can do burnouts, duh. :facepalm:


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

So... still having difficulties reading the ECU (updated to v4.8). It's giving me a timeout when it tries to use the alternate protocol.

For those that have received the 2+ base file, do you have a BPY? If so, could you PM me?

Thanks!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> So... still having difficulties reading the ECU (updated to v4.8). It's giving me a timeout when it tries to use the alternate protocol.
> 
> For those that have received the 2+ base file, do you have a BPY? If so, could you PM me?
> 
> Thanks!


I would recommend you email [email protected] for help.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

After I get tbelt and body work done, ima shoot for the suite. Hopefully by then, the kits will be shipping out regularly.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

I'm going back and forth with Tapp at eurotyne... it just takes a while so I thought I'd ask if anyone has the 2+ file here


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> I'm going back and forth with Tapp at eurotyne... it just takes a while so I thought I'd ask if anyone has the 2+ file here


I hear you, just be patient. He's legit but it takes a bit of time I'm pretty sure many people have questions as well. Plus put into perspective it's a weekend and holiday as well. I'm sure it all work itself out my friend, I know how exciting it can be..


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

If we could just get an answer as to whether each file works for all bpy ecu's or not. Then we could just share files if so.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> If we could just get an answer as to whether each file works for all bpy ecu's or not. Then we could just share files if so.


No do not share files with each other.. If C. Tapp has your ECU info and he sends you a file after that file can only be used by 1 car. It's something with the immobilizer, they attempted to share my file with the other tester and it locked his car out.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

We are very much part of the beta group here because it doesn't read bpy ecu's the way it's supposed to. But it's all good, small price of progress


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

majic said:


> We are very much part of the beta group here because it doesn't read bpy ecu's the way it's supposed to. But it's all good, small price of progress


I thought beta testers got free software...:laugh::facepalm:

And half off hardware...

I mean, I'm sure A3perf got his for free


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> I would recommend you email [email protected] for help.





majic said:


> We are very much part of the beta group here because it doesn't read bpy ecu's the way it's supposed to. But it's all good, small price of progress


To any of you guys running/installing your Maestro kits ahead of the turbos, feel free to contact me directly if you think I can help. It's a holiday now, so my access to the internet is spotty. But I'll offer whatever help I can.


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## VBMike P (Jun 25, 2008)

I'm very interested in seeing the full potential of this turbo. I'm definitely considering picking one up around the end of summer. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

VBMike P said:


> I'm very interested in seeing the full potential of this turbo. I'm definitely considering picking one up around the end of summer.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


TSI with the proper bolt-ons will see the full potential of this turbo due to stronger internals and better fueling. Unless an FSI has internals and maybe S3 injectors that's the only way you'll see it's max potential. Is it worth it really? I don't see the need honestly spending all that money just for an extra 30-40whp. Being that this turbo is meant as a replacement budget friendly turbo that still out performs a K04. If you're looking for more than 350whp on stock internals with stock fueling then you're looking at the wrong turbo.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> There's virtually no use for WMI on the stock motor. You're already able to ride the torque limits up to close to 6000rpms. So unless you spend a ton of time above that, the octane benefits of WMI will go to waste.


If I already have w/m installed, should I keep it or uninstall it?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> If I already have w/m installed, should I keep it or uninstall it?


Hang on to it, you never know. Running Meth on this kit on stock internals is not advised, it's going to raise the torque limits beyond what they can handle..


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

You can still benefit from the cooling aspects of w/m. W/m alone doesnt really produce power.... its just allows you to get more out of your motor/ecu.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Doug,

Unless you have the stage 2+ tune for the A3, I will have to wait for tapp's reply.

I'm not downing being part of the test group, I knew what I was getting into! I know things will get ironed out, and I'm not dissatisfied, but there is just a paucity of information at the moment.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> Hang on to it, you never know. Running Meth on this kit on stock internals is not advised, it's going to raise the torque limits beyond what they can handle..


I was under the impression that higher octane or w/m still had to be tuned for, and that the ECU would not adjust timing automatically to raise power. If it does raise my power I'll be happy to switch it off when I go FT. Please let me know what you guys think.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> I was under the impression that higher octane or w/m still had to be tuned for, and that the ECU would not adjust timing automatically to raise power. If it does raise my power I'll be happy to switch it off when I go FT. Please let me know what you guys think.


Yes our ECM's do adapt rather well. If a better grade fuel or W/M is used I'm pretty certain timing will be advanced. Since timing is advanced expect a bump in spool up and perhaps a slight torque spike which I would recommend to refrain from.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Well that blows. Unintentional pun at first, but then became intended.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Well that blows. Unintentional pun at first, but then became intended.


I'm not a tuner, I'm just giving my .02 cents. Honestly once you get your car loaded with the proper file and F23 installed you won't want W/M anyway. I just came back from a nice ride and the car still doesn't fail to put a smile on my face..


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I live in AZ and it gets very hot here for a very long time. The main reason I want to keep my water meth is to give some relief to the high air temperature. That and I really like the idea that it helps prevent the valves from getting dirty. Is there a possibility the FT tuners could produce a w/m file that lowers torque to take advantage?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> I live in AZ and it gets very hot here for a very long time. The main reason I want to keep my water meth is to give some relief to the high air temperature. That and I really like the idea that it helps prevent the valves from getting dirty. Is there a possibility the FT tuners could produce a w/m file that lowers torque to take advantage?


 I would also love to see this.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Probably install a manual boost controller to limit actual vs requested boost?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Tune it to come on at higher rpm/boost, use less meth, don't run race/100oct files which advance timing and take advantage of knock resistance. I think your over thinking it and knock resistance/cool intake temps are far better than 110deg Arizona hot air and knock. Use it to not lose power not to make power.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

From what I understand, it's the water the does the cooling and the meth that increases detonation resistance. Also the location. It seems that a further from throttle body location using less meth is what you're looking for. 

But wouldn't the cooler temp still mean more power?

It also doesn't appear to do a whole lot for valve cleaning since its not on all the time. Crap is still getting baked on.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I have w/m post IC and post throttle body using the spacer plate.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Tune it to come on at higher rpm/boost, use less meth, don't run race/100oct files which advance timing and take advantage of knock resistance. I think your over thinking it and knock resistance/cool intake temps are far better than 110deg Arizona hot air and knock. Use it to not lose power not to make power.




This all day long.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

So youre saying I just need to adjust the start and full settings on the injection controller, and use a higher ratio of water? Should I ditch the post TB nozzle?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I would leave it hooked up as is.

You are not going to create EXTRA power with it - but just run consistent power.

Reducing knock via cooler intake temps is what w/m is doing.

Also, keep it at 50/50 anyways. 

The evaporation of the meth has to do a lot with its cooling effects.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

water alone has knock protection properties too. But when blue windshield washer fluid costs 2 bucks a gallon, it's a great choice.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Thank you guys! I'll just make sure I adjust properly. After I switched to the Eurodyne tune my w/m started injecting during normal driving, which I believe it shouldn't. So I'll adjust as needed. And Doug, I haven't had time to log, but I will do it as soon as I get a free moment.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

****ing curb rash compliments of wife.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Well, I flashed the stage 2 file... the thing I immediately noticed is that the exhaust note on shifting sounds totally different. There was this conspicuous "DSG fart" that the car would make between 1-2 and 2-3 shifts while in sport mode (not quite so much in D). With the maestro tune that has gone away.

Is this because there's not as much timing pulled between shifts?

Obviously no changes were made to the DSG for this load, so I assume it has to do with either pulling timing, or cutting fuel during shifts. I need to give it a few days to adapt, but something funny I noticed on my APR 2+ tune was that after giving it time to adapt, there was -2% on the longterm fuel trim. Anyone have any idea what to make of this?? (under block 32). 

Also, what is the most common-sense approach to tweaking settings here... as soon as you get into it you suddenly realize you're a bit overwhelmed. 

On dyno pulls, is it 4th gear with the DSG that is the pulling gear (to get ~1:1 final drive?)

Lastly, for the MAF (g/s) conversion to aproximate HP, is it divide by .8... I don't recall what it is for FSI motors.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Give the ECU some time to adapt. I noticed things that when I first flashed have since been a bit different. I can now chirp tires in 2nd gear. I'd defintely do a dsg reset via vagcom if you can. One big thing I noticed is higher airflow and the fact my w/m comes on earlier. Granted I havent logged but will do very soon.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

What maf values are you seeing and at what RPM? (In grams/sec)


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Doug are we shipping today?


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## markillo (May 16, 2013)

Pure.Dope said:


> Doug are we shipping today?


Please please!!! 
Let us know


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Any word on these yet?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Right now it's 3pm on the east coast, so my guess is they're not shipping today. Fairly optimistic on that May 1st shipping date  No worries though, I'm willing to wait if it means doing it right vs not. We will get them eventually.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Right now it's 3pm on the east coast, so my guess is they're not shipping today. Fairly optimistic on that May 1st shipping date  No worries though, I'm willing to wait if it means doing it right vs not. We will get them eventually.


:thumbup: Positivity, I like that!


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah I really don't want things rushed, but it would be nice to get these in our hands so tuners can get to work. Waiting on some hose coupler is just crazy; to which I may not even end up needed but not sure yet. I'm just hoping they get this resolved soon enough.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Mine just shipped. :beer::vampire:opcorn:eace::thumbup::wave::heart:


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Mine just shipped. :beer::vampire:opcorn:eace::thumbup::wave::heart:


Did you just get an email about it? So far nothing for mine but I did just order it last week. At any rate glad they are starting to head out.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I just got a UPS shipping confirmation. It will probably be in the mail tomorrow is my guess.

Edit: looks like it will be here approx Tues. Setup an appt w my tech to install Thur, which happens to be my bday.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

For the more diy'er types:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16176692/STaSIS-K04-Install


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Eff all that noise. I commend those who do this without a lift :thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Wow I just realized that whoever installed my AWE dv relocation kit did it wrong. This could be a reason for my engine not running right. Mind you this was all done before I even bought the car. I just fixed it and running a lot better. Have a look at this DIY:

http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101387

Notice how it's supposed to be mounted so the flow of the noise pipe hits the in port of the DV. Well it wasn't; the adapter was mounted backwards so the valve was sitting sideways instead of down. Tons of fail. :screwy: Good news is it runs a lot better. Not sure what negative effects it had. Maybe this was the reason my 'actual' boost wasn't meeting 'requested' in logs. **** now I gotta go re-run some logs.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Besides throttle being a bit more responsive my logs look pretty much the same. Sorry to derail the thread.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Can be done without a lift, just have to have some good ramps


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

My turbo will be here Friday.

I go out of town until June 10th for work. Blehh...

Maybe I'll drop it off at my local tuner so I can come home to a fun ride. We'll see. Or schedule it to be done on the day I come home! And I can watch the install.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Got my email too, should be here by Tuesday.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> I gotta go re-run some logs.


Well, it's still a great idea to familiarize yourself with Eurodyne's software even while on your OEM turbo. Here's an example of why: Pure.Dope sent me his Maestro logs taken while running the "off the Eurodyne library shelf" Stage2 file. For the most part, everything looked great, indicating a well-running car. But I felt the air fuel mixture was needlessly rich. Here is a graph taken while on the base file:











The actual values are hewing very closely to the requests, which shows that everything is working as it should. But the requests were (in my opinion) too rich. So here's a quick tutorial on the fix I suggested. The map controlling Lambda is called "Full Load Lambda", and it is selectable in the Maestro Editor's "tree" on the left.











If you look closely at the values at the rightmost (where the map is active under hard, hard acceleration), you can see 0.78 or so. But with a few keystrokes those values can be raised to look like they are here:











And the result? Here is a new graph showing the impact on the air/fuel mixture:











Lambdas are now steadily running 0.80 - 0.81. That's a good level to work with.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

In stock?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Thank you very much for the help Doug. As a note after I flashed to the fuel corrected file I scanned and cleared codes. So that run was before any adaptation. Unsure the effect. Runs great though.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

So I went ahead and ordered but I was going to do the manual boost controller thing for a month or two but I see you can no longer select it. Is there anything special about THAT boost controller (I ask because I have used MBC pre VW days and I'm sure they are still a dime a dozen and I can pick one up off eBay/amazon etc).


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The option to select the MBC is among those in the shopping cart. You can see it here. And for any of you with a spare ~1300 bucks lying around, I suppose you can go ahead and purchase.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The option to select the MBC is among those in the shopping cart. You can see it here. And for any of you with a spare ~1300 bucks lying around, I suppose you can go ahead and purchase.


the drop down for the optiion only gives "nah, I'll take my chances".


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

any word from GIAC yet?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Brokenparts said:


> the drop down for the optiion only gives "nah, I'll take my chances".


what he said. No matter its a done deal. I'll probably just wait on the maestro


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> So I went ahead and ordered but I was going to do the manual boost controller thing for a month or two but I see you can no longer select it.


You guys were right. The option to BUY the manual boost controller had disappeared. I think I owe you a freebie boostvalve for catching this. Make sure to email me about what you want.

Again, thanks to everybody for the support during this month-long delay in shipping. Turbos are going out now, so speculation will soon make way for real customers' feedback. 

dh


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> Eff all that noise. I commend those who do this without a lift :thumbup:


Cancelled my appointment. Installing this mother myself. Wish me luck!!


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Does anyone know what an approximate price would be to have this turbo installed?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> Cancelled my appointment. Installing this mother myself. Wish me luck!!


Make sure to take lots of pics and do a write up!!!! d


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

fusionti said:


> Does anyone know what an approximate price would be to have this turbo installed?


expect to pay about $500 give or take $100 labor. Do yourself a favor and buy a k03/04 install kit (gaskets/studs/bolts $40 @ ECS) and new plugs. they'll have to drain your oil/coolant so expect to pay for fluids if you don't provide them.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I think I owe you a freebie boostvalve for catching this. Make sure to email me about what you want.


Its all good, throw a 20hp FT sticker in the package instead  I'm the 23602 5/31/13 order


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Its all good, throw a 20hp FT sticker in the package instead  I'm the 23602 5/31/13 order


Badging like what Apr does would be cool. Nothing tacky though... subtle.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I have done a k03 alone in my driveway if anyone has questions as they go along. 

I was thinking that having the rear badge saying 2.0FT


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

...would be cool to those who understood what it meant.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Tutti57 said:


> ...would be cool to those who understood what it meant.


Yup. Something that catches your eye on the second look... not the first.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Tutti57 said:


> I have done a k03 alone in my driveway if anyone has questions as they go along.
> 
> I was thinking that having the rear badge saying 2.0FT


Tutti I might ask you for your number just in case. I've read through all the writeups so I think I got it down. Just a matter of getting some triple square sockets. My only question is about the line on the turbo w the crimp clamp. Are we getting one w the turbo or should I order one? Think its a coolant line if I remember correctly.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> Tutti I might ask you for your number just in case. I've read through all the writeups so I think I got it down. Just a matter of getting some triple square sockets. My only question is about the line on the turbo w the crimp clamp. Are we getting one w the turbo or should I order one? Think its a coolant line if I remember correctly.


Oooo... this thread is getting interesting again. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Good luck with the install Pure, let us know how it goes. It's still on the table for me to do it too, but I'm not sure about doing it yet. I would still need some of the odd tools and the time at least a couple of days to take it nice a slow.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

majic said:


> For the more diy'er types:
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/16176692/STaSIS-K04-Install


This is what I used. It was more helpful than the Bentley.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

It appears all the tools are fairly standard. Yah im gonna follow that stassis guide mostly. Im gonna just work a few hours a day on weekends. Prob gonna take a few weeks cause im also doing the timing belt.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

In the stassis guide it says to remove the pendulum mount. Is this necessary? And if so, is it also necessary to use the strap? I'll prob end up removing it anyways for the timing belt install. Need to jack the engine to get the mount out.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah, you just have to take the bolt out if it and get a ratchet strap or something this pulls the motor out of the way enough to pull the turbo out of the top. By far the most difficult part if the job. There is no way in hell you will clear the motor when trying to pull it out without doing this. 

That is the one part of the job where a helper would be great.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> Yeah, you just have to take the bolt out if it and get a ratchet strap or something this pulls the motor out of the way enough to pull the turbo out of the top. By far the most difficult part if the job. There is no way in hell you will clear the motor when trying to pull it out without doing this.
> 
> That is the one part of the job where a helper would be great.


OR, just removed the wipers and cowl panel. Then there is a metal piece of the upper firewall that's bolted in with a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt. Remove that panel and you have 15x more room and turbo will slip right out the top. Makes it a ton easier to get your arms around back there too!

This is the metal upper section of the firewall under wiper tray








- J. Hines


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

That's an amazing tip to remove the cowl. How likely is it to strip the stud holes out of the head? This is one thing I'm worried about if I attempt this myself, I suppose using several cans of PB spray would be the best first step.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> OR, just removed the wipers and cowl panel. Then there is a metal piece of the upper firewall that's bolted in with a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt. Remove that panel and you have 15x more room and turbo will slip right out the top. Makes it a ton easier to get your arms around back there too!
> 
> This is the metal upper section of the firewall under wiper tray
> 
> ...


Do that! Awesome tip. Does this work on the passat too?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Thx for the idea. Any clue on the hose crimp clamp?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Thx for the idea. Any clue on the hose crimp clamp?


John, if you do this, I'm so gonna DIY it when I get home from this business trip.


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## 13ttaz (Apr 30, 2013)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Tune it to come on at higher rpm/boost, use less meth, don't run race/100oct files which advance timing and take advantage of knock resistance. I think your over thinking it and knock resistance/cool intake temps are far better than 110deg Arizona hot air and knock. Use it to not lose power not to make power.


Spot on.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> just remove the wipers and cowl panel. Then there is a metal piece of the upper firewall that's bolted in with a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt. Remove that panel and you have 15x more room and turbo will slip right out the top. Makes it a ton easier to get your arms around back there too!
> 
> This is the metal upper section of the firewall under wiper tray
> 
> ...



This is a really interesting tip for a DIY-er doing this swap. I hope to see some pix from anyone who goes this route.

Thanks for posting that. :thumbup:


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## Bo Toichi (Jan 15, 2013)

Just like a VW Beetle,that is a part that takes 5 min. to get out,and saves you a ton of time. That HAS to come out when doing a T3 framed turbo,unless you take out the axle and go from the bottom.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Timing belt almost done. Funny thing is this is a lot easier than I remember when helping a friend w/ a 1.8t. Next up is turbo removal


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> Timing belt almost done. Funny thing is this is a lot easier than I remember when helping a friend w/ a 1.8t. Next up is turbo removal


Remember pics!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

So my rods are almost in all the way...very tempted to pull the trigger on the Turbo...Doug what's it going to take to get a block off plate for the turbo so I can keep my dv re routed


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Rub-ISH said:


> So my rods are almost in all the way...very tempted to pull the trigger on the Turbo...Doug what's it going to take to get a block off plate for the turbo so I can keep my dv re routed


block off your reroute kit better.. why risk having all that plumbing which could then lead to an additional source of leaks.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

A3Performance said:


> block off your reroute kit better.. why risk having all that plumbing which could then lead to an additional source of leaks.


No Thanks...I've been running it leak free like this for just about 40k on this K04 setup...no need to re invent the wheel


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> This is a really interesting tip for a DIY-er doing this swap. I hope to see some pix from anyone who goes this route.
> 
> Thanks for posting that. :thumbup:


I have done 60+ turbos on FSI/TSI engines and been doing this since day one! Beats the hell out of taking the axle out and dropping it through the bottom as VW instructs us to do, or fighting with the dogbone, ratchet straps and still risking breaking something when wedging it out of the top.

I've had very good success with this. As for the job as whole, it's relatively easy. I get the engine warm before starting to help with the studs as well. But a lot of people don't like working with hot components...lol. But I see that between the heat and some rust-off, I have never stripped a thread in the head and have broken maybe 4 studs total. Most proned bolt to kick your ass is the bolt that holds the turbo to the support brace. That thing gets TIGHT and when rusted and baked.......it can be a B*TCH!!!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Rub-ISH said:


> No Thanks...I've been running it leak free like this for just about 40k on this K04 setup...no need to re invent the wheel


so you must find a DV block off plate then. Personally I would prefer less plumbing but to each their own.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Anybody have help for this. There are two crimp style clamps that need to be taken off when doing this install. One is for the crankcase ventilation hose to the valve cover. I think the other is for the vacuum line on the turbo. Are these supplied w/ the turbo? If not, where can I get them, and if I can't, is there an alternative style clamp I can use? I suppose I can use the worm style if I really need to...


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Anybody have help for this. There are two crimp style clamps that need to be taken off when doing this install. One is for the crankcase ventilation hose to the valve cover. I think the other is for the vacuum line on the turbo. Are these supplied w/ the turbo? If not, where can I get them, and if I can't, is there an alternative style clamp I can use? I suppose I can use the worm style if I really need to...


You can use worm clamps if you want. Otherwise, the dealer will have them for sure. Not sure if Lowes has the exact sizes, but I know they are used in plumbing applications as well. I get them for fuel lines all the time from Lowes


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Nevermind, I got my answer  Everybody make sure to pickup some worm clamps if you can't find the oem crimp styles. I'll follow up w/ the correct size.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

OK now I'm checking w/ the dealer. Would rather do it right.

edit: getting them tomorrow from dealer


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> OK now I'm checking w/ the dealer. Would rather do it right.
> 
> edit: getting them tomorrow from dealer


Part number? How many needed?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Two clamps total. One smaller than the other. I can give part numbers tomorrow when I pick them up. If you call the dealer they can look them up for you though.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Rub-ISH said:


> Doug what's it going to take to get a block off plate for the turbo so I can keep my dv re routed


Assuming you have a blockoff plate on the K03 you're running now, you would simply put it onto the F23T in the same fashion.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Assuming you have a blockoff plate on the K03 you're running now, you would simply put it onto the F23T in the same fashion.


he's got an OEM K04 that does not offer an integrated DV. So his options is to either run a block off plate or eliminate the DV-re route kit.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Okay well the Turbo just got here today, not sure when I'll look to get the install done. I did have one question or making sure I understood what Doug said. 

If I get the turbo installed with my current setup minus the correct tune it should run fine until I get the proper tune installed, is that correct? I ask only because I'm still waiting for the tune to be finished and I may have the option to install this before that time comes.

My current setup is 
APR RCS TBE | Revo stage 2+ | BSH Trueseal | BSH Bulletproof DV fix | BSH PCV fix | HPHF Upgrades Stage 1 | 142bar Fuel Rail Valve | BSH Front mount IC 

So everything needed minus the correct tune.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Do you have the maestro?


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Do you have the maestro?


No currently running Revo 2+, but I'm waiting on Do. Tuning to make the software for this.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

10-4. I think stage 2+ tune is a no-go.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Frankly, when committing the money to develop this turbo, we knew it would have to be suitable as a repair part. You see, that's the case with our entire product line. We're in the business of making (really great) repair parts. So for the FSI engine we have tested it on several cars running the "wrong" mods. We logged it that way. We've dynoed it that way. And this was all done because we knew many potential customers would be looking at purchasing incrementally.
> 
> So the $64,000 question: can I run this turbo temporarily on X, Y or Z mods? The answer is *yes*. And you can do it in such a way that you DO NOT have to pull it out of the car when the time comes for more power. If you want to change the actuator preload, you can do it in the car. If you want to run an MBC or other controller, you can do it in the car. If you want to add more fueling or an HPFP upgrade, you can do all those things with the turbo already in the car. And that's because we planned the product that way.


This is what I'm questioning.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

fusionti said:


> No currently running Revo 2+, but I'm waiting on Do. Tuning to make the software for this.


Have you contacted anyone from .dotuning??


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> Have you contacted anyone from .dotuning??


Yup, Taylor said he will be working on the tune soon enough. Either his car or someone close to him so he can set it up.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I still don't have my F23T file from Chris Tapp at Eurodyne. Was promised I'd have it by Mon 05/27. Maybe I should have gone do.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Damn it, do I have to go be the guinea pig again and get .dotuning so there's a file available for you guys!


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> Damn it, do I have to go be the guinea pig again and get .dotuning so there's a file available for you guys!


Ha, I'll I'm waiting for is the tune, well I just ordered the install kit from ECS so that too. Then I just need some time to do the work. Really hoping end of June or early July everything will be sorted out.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Seriously, cause I didn't pay big money or anything for Eurodyne


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Seriously, cause I didn't pay big money or anything for Eurodyne


Yeah I would be a little pissed if they haven't delivered a product that they should have already to go. I do hope you get it soon, nothing is off the table for me but .dotuning is getting first crack the thing is I'm not going to wait past July for this. So will see what happens.

Also still waiting to see how your install goes as I do plan to go for it myself.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

A3Performance said:


> he's got an OEM K04 that does not offer an integrated DV. So his options is to either run a block off plate or eliminate the DV-re route kit.


This is true! Doug mentioned that fabing a block off plate shouldn't be that hard when I asked him about building a Ft23 on the K04 frame...I took that to mean he would be able to do such a thing. Either isn't that difficult... Just wanted to know since it seemed he was up for the task


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Rub-ISH said:


> No Thanks...I've been running it leak free like this for just about 40k on this K04 setup...no need to re invent the wheel


AWE's relocation kit comes with a block off. Maybe they'll sell you just the block off separately. If not you'll be coughing up $160 for the whole relocation kit. I suppose you could sell it to somebody doing an oem k04 conversion (they won't need the block off if they use the S3/Golf R oem k04-064).


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I have that kit, but want to get rid of it. If I do I'll need to pick up an intake coupler and figure out how to block off my noise pipe hole at the throttle pipe.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> AWE's relocation kit comes with a block off. Maybe they'll sell you just the block off separately. If not you'll be coughing up $160 for the whole relocation kit. I suppose you could sell it to somebody doing an oem k04 conversion (they won't need the block off if they use the S3/Golf R oem k04-064).


AWE will not sell any pieces separately. Eurojet used to make them, contact the guys at Forced Fed Engineering, I'm sure Ed can make it for you!


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## choochb5 (Sep 7, 2006)

Rub-ISH said:


> So my rods are almost in all the way...very tempted to pull the trigger on the Turbo...Doug what's it going to take to get a block off plate for the turbo so I can keep my dv re routed


http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-172&Category_Code=FSI

$22


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

choochb5 said:


> http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-172&Category_Code=FSI
> 
> $22


That still requires a block off or a DV in place. This is actually what you need I just couldn't find it on the site until you posted that link $29.99


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

So that will block off the dv location for use with this turbo kit and assist in utilizing a dv relocation system.... with the f23t?

That part is a little unclear to me.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

filthyillness said:


> So that will block off the dv location for use with this turbo kit and assist in utilizing a dv relocation system.... with the f23t?
> 
> That part is a little unclear to me.
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


Correct.

On a good note, I received the F23T yesterday, and just got my tune file. Thanks to all the vendors.

Turbo just about removed, will finish it tomorrow along w/ TB. Yay me.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Correct.
> 
> On a good note, I received the F23T yesterday, and just got my tune file. Thanks to all the vendors.
> 
> Turbo just about removed, will finish it tomorrow along w/ TB. Yay me.


:thumbup:


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## RizerGLI (Mar 23, 2007)

Pure.Dope said:


> Correct.
> 
> On a good note, I received the F23T yesterday, and just got my tune file. Thanks to all the vendors.
> 
> Turbo just about removed, will finish it tomorrow along w/ TB. Yay me.


!!


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Sweet!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

So I just opened it up. I noticed the wastegate actuator rod nuts look odd. One is at the end of the threads. The othe nut is just free to spin in the middle area of the threads. How is this supposed to be? Im thinking the inside nut isnt supposed to just be floating.????


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> Im thinking the inside nut isnt supposed to just be floating.????


I'm thinking you're right. Hopefully this is just a setup error and not an issue with the packing method.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Correct.
> 
> On a good note, I received the F23T yesterday, and just got my tune file. Thanks to all the vendors.
> 
> Turbo just about removed, will finish it tomorrow along w/ TB. Yay me.


Good to hear, I got mine as well yesterday. Any issues with the install or any tips or tricks you like to share? How well did the directions take you through the process? Did you go with the cowl removal?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I was gonna remove the turbo tomorrow. Just got down to the last downpipe nut and stripped it. I thoroughly soaked it in pblaster overnight. I'll resume tomorrow. You think a dremel would work to cut it off?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I wonder if I can just back the entire stud out. Anybody think thats possible w the nut still tight?


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> I was gonna remove the turbo tomorrow. Just got down to the last downpipe nut and stripped it. I thoroughly soaked it in pblaster overnight. I'll resume tomorrow. You think a dremel would work to cut it off?


That would probably work. I have used cutoff wheels before. Do you have a spare stud or die in case you damage the treads?

You could also try one of those bolt remover sockets. I've had good luck with them before. Or can you hammer on a smaller socket?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Got it with the dremel :thumbup: And yes I do have the ECS kit which includes studs and nuts. woot.

Exhaust band clamps are strange. Couldn't get them off, but figured out how to get the exhaust out anyways. Downpipe down and out of the way.

Timing belt almost done. Turns out my timing belt tensioner M8 nut threads stripped so couldn't completely finish the job (which DBC Tuning forgot to include in my kit). I'll pick another up at home depot in the morning to finish. Now the only thing that awaits is removing the turbo and hopefully w/ the help of Doug I can get my actuator preload set correctly. This is really critical and I'm hoping we can do this without having to send the turbo back into him. I want to be leaf.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Thank you Doug for helping sort out how to set preload.

My tensioner stud stripped somehow. Not gonna have it til possibly tues, maybe sat. Looks like I'm stalled until then.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Turbo is off. I'm not sure how the washers go on the coolant line banjo bolt. One on top and one on bottom? I ask because the bottom doesn't have the recess like the K03. Anybody got ideas?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

a washer on either side of the banjo fitting


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## iamAudihere (Feb 23, 2013)

Exhaust band clamps are strange. Couldn't get them off, but figured out how to get the exhaust out anyways. Downpipe down and out of the way.

u have any pics u can post?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Here's a look at the (included) silicone adapter connected to the FSI's turbo outlet pipe. Picture was taken by Island Sport Works in NJ.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

this is seriously getting exciting. POST MORE PICS that way we can all feel like we are part of this.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

So I wanted to provide the community a quick update. I'm currently in the works of working with .dotuning to develop a file for the frankturbo. It will definitely give everyone an opportunity to have more options when it comes to dialing in the power on their new kit. Stay tuned, i'm hoping this can be done within the next 2 weeks since timing on my end is the issue really.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Preload set to 12psi and turbo is in! Now it's just a waiting game for my tensioner stud....:beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

how did the silicone coupler work? The one sent with your turbo is a 45˚, versus the 90˚ pictured above.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> So I wanted to provide the community a quick update. I'm currently in the works of working with .dotuning to develop a file for the frankturbo. It will definitely give everyone an opportunity to have more options when it comes to dialing in the power on their new kit. Stay tuned, i'm hoping this can be done within the next 2 weeks since timing on my end is the issue really.


I will be in line right after he finishes with your file then. Thanks for doing this for all of us, I can't wait.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

fusionti said:


> I will be in line right after he finishes with your file then. Thanks for doing this for all of us, I can't wait.


Not a problem!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm having a hard time w/ these washers. In my ecstuning kit I got two thicker silver washers, and four copper washers. Where do the thicker silver ones go?


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> I'm having a hard time w/ these washers. In my ecstuning kit I got two thicker silver washers, and four copper washers. Where do the thicker silver ones go?


If you need to contact ECS I'm sure they could tell you right away.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

ECS told me to check vortex. lol


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> ECS told me to check vortex. lol


wow just wow, are the silver ones not for the banjo fitting?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

From what I understand, the turbo side of the banjo bolt gets a copper washer, and the other side of the bolt gets the silver one. Just not sure which banjo's get the silver ones.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I've seen silver and copper compression washers used in many different applications. I imagine that that the silver ones are the ones to be used in the application. Have you tried sliding the washers over the banjo bolt to see how the fit? Basically they are just there to seal the assembly. The hole in the banjo bolt should not be covered by the washer. 

this is not a picture of said assembly:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Well the only thing the thicker washers fit on is the oil supply line banjo bolt at top of turbo. That's prob where these go I suppose.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

It's just that in TSI K04 install they say use the thick washers on the firewall side coolant line. But that's a TSI, so may be different and where I'm getting confused.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> So I wanted to provide the community a quick update. I'm currently in the works of working with .dotuning to develop a file for the frankturbo. It will definitely give everyone an opportunity to have more options when it comes to dialing in the power on their new kit. Stay tuned, i'm hoping this can be done within the next 2 weeks since timing on my end is the issue really.



Is this tune for maestro or a file that will have to be flashed?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Got all the lines in. The only place it makes sense to use the silver washers is the banjo bolt for the oil supply line, directly on the top of the turbo.

I lined up the supplied silicone hose and I'm not sure it will fit. It looks like it's too big. The original mating piece is much shorter. Is the hose supposed to slip over just the edge, or swallow half the outlet pipe?

Pipe in question


Collection of photos


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm guessing by looking at this you will trim the hell out of it to make it fit.

Did you remove the cowl to fit the turbo in?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Thats what Im thinking. I did remove the cowl. Tight squeeze but no prob. No need to remove pendulum mount.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Thats what Im thinking. I did remove the cowl. Tight squeeze but no prob. No need to remove pendulum mount.


When I got mine and saw that hose I knew there was no way it was going in without trimming it down. Just like BSH IC hoses, such a pain to cut that crap.

Glad that it works without messing around with the pendulum mount, cowl remove will be the way i go aswell.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Best way I've found to cut silicone hoses is to figure out about the section you need, use masking tape to make your nice clean lines and then use a razor knife to follow the tape and have a clean cut. Takes a little time and patience, but it's much cleaner than using methods I've seen in the past with scissors and cutters. They leave chunks hanging off and not-clean lines.

Glad the cowl method worked for you. I love doing them that way and makes life much easier


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

As a note there were three lines that dont mate up w the securing holes. You will see one in the picture and the other is the coolant line you swap onto the new turbo. The third I think is an oil line. Im assuming this is correct and how all K04s end up. Can anybody confirm?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> As a note there were two lines that dont mate up w the securing holes. You will see one in the picture and the other is the coolant line you swap onto the new turbo. Im assuming this is correct and how all K04s end up. Can anybody confirm?


Yes....all K04 kits are like that. One of the lines won't line up with securing hole to turbo and then rear lines that cross won't lock together like the K03 did. All the kits I've ever done are like that.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I might have to dremel that silver band off. Sucker is on there and solid.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> I might have to dremel that silver band off. Sucker is on there and solid.


The crimp-clamp? I use a pair of side cutters and grip the side, then lift it up til it separates. They're a bear sometimes. Or use a screwdriver and insert it in the crimped part and twist to separate it.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Its a solid band. No crimp or worm type.

I had ace hw fab me up a tb tensioner stud. Will be done tonight!!!!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> Is this tune for maestro or a file that will have to be flashed?


It will be a bench flash which means most likely ECU would have to be shipped out. We are kicking ideas around of running a MAF and MAF-less file. Reasoning is .dotuning has had great success with MAF-less tunes with BT. Also another factor is the FSI is plagued with having issues with intakes due to MAF calibrations. It's in it's infancy and as more details arise I'll fill you guys in.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Whats with all the customizing of parts and pieces to get this to fit? I thought it was designed to be a factory replacement....

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Whats with all the customizing of parts and pieces to get this to fit? I thought it was designed to be a factory replacement....
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


Not much customizing honestly. This is a direct replacement, perhaps you might be interpreting a member having a bit of difficulty during the install. Great thing is, this forum is here and we all can chime in and assist as much as possible.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

The piping that is reused from the K03 with supplied coupler I personally had one custom made. I have custom piping and intercooler so I wanted zero restrictions. Not saying the K03 piping won't work, it's just my preference. Can't wait to hear more members feedback with their frankenturbos!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

The only issue Im having is with the silicone coupler being a wrong size. Other than that just make sure you have nuts studs gaskets washers and clamps. 

My other stud issue was timing belt related.

Oh yah and my wastegate actuator wasnt set. Doug helped me w that. I am missing the nut bracket though. Dunno what happened there.


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

A3Performance said:


> So I wanted to provide the community a quick update. I'm currently in the works of working with .dotuning to develop a file for the frankturbo. It will definitely give everyone an opportunity to have more options when it comes to dialing in the power on their new kit. Stay tuned, i'm hoping this can be done within the next 2 weeks since timing on my end is the issue really.


:thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Stripped my engine mount bracket threads now. Jesus.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Stripped my engine mount bracket threads now. Jesus.


Damn bro not for nothing it's like the 3rd thing you've stripped. Lets take a break, and try again tomorrow or you're using the wrong tools.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Damn bro not for nothing it's like the 3rd thing you've stripped. Lets take a break, and try again tomorrow or you're using the wrong tools.


Agreed. Slow down a bit... spray some pb blaster on the bolts tonight and start fresh in the morning. You'll enjoy it more then. Took me a few projects in my time to learn patience but it'll work out. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Soooooo... I got a 90 degree silicone hose with my turbo. I have an FSI (audi a3). Am I going to need the 45 degree hose or is there a difference between the audi and GTI/GLI layout?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Well, maestro is supposed to be able to run maffless, though if .do is making a competing product I doubt the insight into the tune would be up for being shared among the maestro users?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I got it sorted out. The threads on the mount didnt strip too much. Its not that I was using the wrong tool or going too fast. It was that when I put the engine mount back on I think I did it in the wrong order. No biggie though its good to go. Just need to get the downpipe on and the engine bay zipped up and ill be done. Ill let you know what happens. Wish me luck!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> I got it sorted out. The threads on the mounted didnt strip too much. Its not that I was using the wrong tool or going too fast. It was that when I put the engine mount back on I think I did it in the wrong order. No biggie though its good to go. Just need to get the downpipe on and the engine bay zipped up and ill be done. Ill let you know what happens. Wish me luck!


Good to hear man. Keep us posted! I'm jealous!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice work!


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Why were you messing with the engine mount? Was that still part of your timing belt replacement?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> Soooooo... I got a 90 degree silicone hose with my turbo. I have an FSI (audi a3). Am I going to need the 45 degree hose or is there a difference between the audi and GTI/GLI layout?



The 90˚ hose will work well. Here's the install pic posted earlier:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

updates?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Everything done. Ft flash isnt working so im working to get that sorted out. I must say the turbo outlet silicone coupler provided was crap. Its not the correct angle and doesnt even seem like it was designed for the car. This is after cutting it the best I could.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Damn it. Somebody help this guy out so we can hear about more about the setup.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

fusionti said:


> Why were you messing with the engine mount? Was that still part of your timing belt replacement?


 Yessir. I did my timing belt first. Belt tensioner stud stripped, so I had to wait til today to pick one up from the dealer. In the meantime I put the mount back on and swapped the turbo. 

So everything is almost done. I drove it lightly on the stage 2 Eurodyne tune to make sure everything worked. It did some funky things like diverter valve fluttered and kinda bogged when I was stopping. I'm gonna owe that to not having the F23T tune yet (which Chris Tapp is sorting out, hopefully will have a working tune in the morning). 

I'm so relieved to know that I did everything right and at least my engine didn't explode (yet) :thumbup:. 

I kept it in low boost, no more than 5psi. I gotta say. Thing sound ****ing sweet, like jet engine sweet. You can really hear that turbo, and I haven't even gotten on it yet.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

For ref how much of that hose did you have to trim or any pics of it? I'm going to have to do the same thing and not really surprised that the hose doesn't fit well at all. :facepalm:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I cut about 4-5 inches off the fat end. I noticed your coupler has a sharper angle than mine. I think you should be good. But mine you have to bend so much it causes a serious restriction. I was unable to mount the outlet pipe to the engine so it's just kinda hanging there. I either would like a revised version of this or I might just buy the aftermarket Neuspeed K04 turbo outlet pipe. I'll talk to Doug about this. My only quesiton if going neuspeed would be, is the outlet flange of the FT the same as a normal K04? 

Also my P-Flo intake was a super tight fit. Able to connect it but unable to mount it. It seems like the turbo housing sits higher. I ended up using zip ties to secure it to the battery tray hole. Fun fun fun.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> I cut about 4-5 inches off the fat end. I noticed your coupler has a sharper angle than mine. I think you should be good. But mine you have to bend so much it causes a serious restriction. I was unable to mount the outlet pipe to the engine so it's just kinda hanging there. I either would like a revised version of this or I might just buy the aftermarket Neuspeed K04 turbo outlet pipe. I'll talk to Doug about this. My only quesiton if going neuspeed would be, is the outlet flange of the FT the same as a normal K04?


 nah I have the 45 just like you got, so not really happy at this point if it doesn't fit at all. Lets hope he fixes this and sends out new ones to whatever they should be to fit correctly.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I don't understand why they didn't test fit these, or if they did, why it's off so much. Only a small hitch for such a great product, and we still gotta give FT some big props. 

I'm just thankful I still have my TDI to mob around in the meantime. If I didn't though, I'd probably throw a **** fit between that and the tune. But still I understand we are essentially beta testers. Which I went into this knowing, and Doug has been helpful and expedient w/ any issues that have arisen. He seems like a great guy.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

although those hoses are a big pain in the ass to trim... I'd rather have too much to trim than not enough.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Yessir. I did my timing belt first. Belt tensioner stud stripped, so I had to wait til today to pick one up from the dealer. In the meantime I put the mount back on and swapped the turbo.
> 
> So everything is almost done. I drove it lightly on the stage 2 Eurodyne tune to make sure everything worked. It did some funky things like diverter valve fluttered and kinda bogged when I was stopping. I'm gonna owe that to not having the F23T tune yet (which Chris Tapp is sorting out, hopefully will have a working tune in the morning).
> 
> ...


 You can probably hear it better because it doesn't have that f*ing turbo muffler on it like our stock K03's have. I'm always slightly jealous of my dad's 20AE gti because the turbo and diverter valve sound so damn sweet on that car. 

But we all know that the "sound" factor is not the best reason to go with a product... Sure doesn't hurt on the tail end of a purchase though! I'm going to start my install sometime next week when I don't have so many 24hr shifts ahead of me.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Brokenparts said:


> although those hoses are a big pain in the ass to trim... I'd rather have too much to trim than not enough.


 I don't mind trimming but as it sounds from his install the bend of the hose is wrong. He almost has the hose kinked to make the connection which isn't right at all.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

fusionti said:


> ...not really happy at this point if it doesn't fit at all. Lets hope he fixes this and sends out new ones to whatever they should be to fit correctly.





fusionti said:


> I don't mind trimming but as it sounds from his install the bend of the hose is wrong. He almost has the hose kinked to make the connection which isn't right at all.





Pure.Dope said:


> I don't understand why they didn't test fit these, or if they did, why it's off so much.


 
Well, it sounds like the silicone elbow specification can definitely be improved. The turbos shipped with the parts they did based on test-phase installations. But there wasn't a clear consensus of opinions about the degree of bend. Some preferred the 45˚, others the 90˚. My guess is that the ideal must be somewhere in the middle, something like a ~70˚ bend. And if our customers' own experiences mandate an odd angle like that, well that's what we'll offer. 

Thank you again for this active and informative thread.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Well, it sounds like the silicone elbow specification can definitely be improved. The turbos shipped with the parts they did based on test-phase installations. But there wasn't a clear consensus of opinions about the degree of bend. Some preferred the 45˚, others the 90˚. My guess is that the ideal must be somewhere in the middle, something like a ~70˚ bend. And if our customers' own experiences mandate an odd angle like that, well that's what we'll offer.
> 
> Thank you again for this active and informative thread.


 Doug, thanks as always for being responsive. Sorry I haven't gotten to my installation just yet, I will start later thismweekmand let you know how the 90* elbow goes!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Everything going great for me. Only thing I need to do is some wastegate adjustments. It seems my pressure tool may have been faulty so I didn't adjust it right and am overboosting and surging. Once I get that dialed in and w/m back on I'll be ripping.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Everything going great for me. Only thing I need to do is some wastegate adjustments. It seems my pressure tool may have been faulty so I didn't adjust it right and am overboosting and surging. Once I get that dialed in and w/m back on I'll be ripping.


 Why are you doing those adjustments? Was I mistaken in thinking once you have the software, install this unit and everything is good to go? I just ask as if there is more I need to do I want to be ready when the time comes.


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## [email protected]bo.com (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope's turbo didn't have the actuator nuts in place when he opened the packaging. Whether that was a shipping problem or an error on my part is difficult to say, but we're taking that problem and using it to experiment a bit with preloads. The first day or two of normal driving makes us both think that his first preload setting is too stiff. Right now he's running a temporary software flash which has zeroed boost duty. We'll use that to dial in the preload he wants. 

All this isn't to say that every customer will have to go through this process. But at this early stage of development, there's still a lot to learn about how this turbo can be best set up. And Pure.Dope has graciously agreed to do the experimentation.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Pure.Dope's turbo didn't have the actuator nuts in place when he opened the packaging. Whether that was a shipping problem or an error on my part is difficult to say, but we're taking that problem and using it to experiment a bit with preloads. The first day or two of normal driving makes us both think that his first preload setting is too stiff. Right now he's running a temporary software flash which has zeroed boost duty. We'll use that to dial in the preload he wants.
> 
> All this isn't to say that every customer will have to go through this process. But at this early stage of development, there's still a lot to learn about how this turbo can be best set up. And Pure.Dope has graciously agreed to do the experimentation.


 Good to know I just wanted to make sure there should not be anything extra to do on my end. Thanks Doug


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## kermitz (Mar 17, 2013)

Am I missing something? I don't recall hearing that the DV is relocated, but the pictures show a block off plate in place.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

IMO this is a much better setup than a static plug and play k04. Yes you will be able to plug and play w this, but it gives you soooo much more degree of control to your setup. Doug has been absolutely outstanding w his support and I've already learned very much from him. He knows what he is doing and I wouldn't change it for oh, I dunno, an apr k04 or even bt setup. 

BTW the process for changing preload once turbo installed is this: 

-remove axle heat shield 
-use 10mm deep socket w short 1/4" ratchet for outside nut, and a 10mm short wrench for inside nut 
-moving them to passenger side increases preload. And moving them to drivers side decreases preload. 
-make sure to tighten them together when finished


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

kermitz said:


> Am I missing something? I don't recall hearing that the DV is relocated, but the pictures show a block off plate in place.


 Yeah its how my car came when I bought it. I honestly really want to revert it to non relocated. More places to leak boost imo. To do this I need an intake to turbo coupler and a noise pipe plug for my charge pipe. Not sure what would work for the noise pipe but I might try to find something.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Anything new? Think I'll order a 60 degree elbow just to see if that will fit better for the install, doesn't cost much so not a big deal.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

fusionti said:


> Anything new? Think I'll order a 60 degree elbow just to see if that will fit better for the install, doesn't cost much so not a big deal.


 Email me and I'll arrange a 60˚ elbow for you to test. Something like this:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Email me and I'll arrange a 60˚ elbow for you to test. Something like this:


 
Doug I'll email you now and see if you can send me one of those? My turbo is going in Friday/this weekend I hope.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Pro tip for anybody w/ the 45 degree elbow. Trim both ends. I just trimmed maybe an inch off the turbo outlet side and it sits a little better. Still has to crimp at the bend, but a slightly better fit.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Just out of curiosity... how many units went out to customers?


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Lets hear about how you've been out piss-poundin your car all day and how awesome it is. Please? Maybe?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Not yet....lol. I have an overboost issue that I just yesterday diagnosed to be a defective N75 valve. Basically my wastegate was not opening whatsoever. Gonna replace the valve friday or over the weekend. Bypassed the it completely for now, so ATM I'm just running actuator pressure. Plus I need to readjust my wastegate actuator preload. 

So I promise, once I get those two things done I will be pounding the dickens out of this thing. I'll try to get a few videos on my youtube also once it's done. They will be janky phone vids, but vids nonetheless.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Sounds good!


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Already seen a 600whp fsi... perhaps something with less power will actually grab the pavement and take off. Sometimes there is such a thing as too much power 

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Already seen a 600whp fsi... perhaps something with less power will actually grab the pavement and take off. Sometimes there is such a thing as too much power
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


 There's no such thing as too much power! :laugh:


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## markillo (May 16, 2013)

just got mine today


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

A3Performance said:


> There's no such thing as too much power! :laugh:


 I know! Im just living a lie. Lmao

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Exciting day tomorrow. In goes the new elbow, n75 valve, stock maf/intake, and removal of the gay ass dv relocation. Hate that thing and the pflo. IMO sometimes modding gets unncessary and stock can be better in certain cases. Seriously thinking about going stock engine mounts and pendulum as well. You guys think I'm going crazy?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Pure.Dope said:


> Exciting day tomorrow. In goes the new elbow, n75 valve, stock maf/intake, and removal of the gay ass dv relocation. Hate that thing and the pflo. IMO sometimes modding gets unncessary and stock can be better in certain cases. Seriously thinking about going stock engine mounts and pendulum as well. You guys think I'm going crazy?


 Def will give a smoother feel when driving but won't it wear faster or flex too much with the power increase?

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Exciting day tomorrow. In goes the new elbow, n75 valve, stock maf/intake, and removal of the gay ass dv relocation. Hate that thing and the pflo. IMO sometimes modding gets unncessary and stock can be better in certain cases. Seriously thinking about going stock engine mounts and pendulum as well. You guys think I'm going crazy?


 My motor mount upgrades and dogbone insert were one of my favorite mods. What mounts are installed on your car?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Dunno which engine mounts. BSH pendulum and HPA core interlock torque mount. I wouldn't remove the HPA. I guess I'm just thinking about doing the pendulum cause I suspect it's bad. Im getting a horrible vibration between 1-2k rpm since I did my tbelt and turbo install. Going to inspect it tomorrow but Im thinking I may have screwed it up when jacking up my engine.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

....and Im not a huge fan of the vibrations at idle


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Just checked the pendulum. The bushing is tweaked to the side. Gonna adjust it tomorrow and see how it goes. Hope by bolt isnt bent.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Ahh. I have 034 mounts. They aren't solid poly they're actual rubber. Stiffer than stock, but not vibrate you apart. I love em.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

The key to engine mounts is properly letting them settle. I've had basically every mount out there on my car and must say the BSH are the best feeling I've had. I also have the solid subframe insert from 034 Motorsports. 

But when installing the mounts, you have to snug everything, but not tight. Start the engine and let everything vibrate/settle into place. Then torque all the mount bolts to spec and then do the same thing again after 6 months or so of driving. Did that with my mounts and the car has absolutely ZERO vibration, unless the A/C is on at idle. But that's to be expected. 

And when doing the timing belt on the FSI, it's a lot easier and puts a lot less stress on the dogbone to take the 2 16mm bolts that go into the bottom of the trans loose. Allows engine to go up easier and higher as well as not twisting the dogbone itself. 
J. Hines


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Man, we should start a thread called, "jhines tech tip of the day".


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> Man, we should start a thread called, "jhines tech tip of the day".


 Haha.........when you wrench on these d*mn things daily, you learn a lot of tips and shortcuts. After all, time is money when it comes to my profession. 

But I could sit here all day and show shortcuts to doing basically nay job on the FSI. Nice to see a thread that's full of useful info and tips/"how to" steps along with some problem solving instead of the usual bashing and b*tching.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

*gasp* *wheeze* *gasp* I heard that there was a productive thread on Vortex.... *pant* I got here as quickly as I could to bash J Hines and bitch about FSIs! :laugh:


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## VBMike P (Jun 25, 2008)

jhines_06gli said:


> The key to engine mounts is properly letting them settle. I've had basically every mount out there on my car and must say the BSH are the best feeling I've had. I also have the solid subframe insert from 034 Motorsports.
> 
> But when installing the mounts, you have to snug everything, but not tight. Start the engine and let everything vibrate/settle into place. Then torque all the mount bolts to spec and then do the same thing again after 6 months or so of driving. Did that with my mounts and the car has absolutely ZERO vibration, unless the A/C is on at idle. But that's to be expected.


 Pro tip. Just did this today

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

This turbo is really testing my ****ty intercooler hoses. Really wish whoever installed my forge intercooler didn't cut them all to ****. Mind you this was before I owned the car. Obviously I would have installed if I had it at the time. bleeeeeehhhhhh! bah humbug


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

It wants to blow them off? Is it leaking boost at them?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Pure.Dope said:


> This turbo is really testing my ****ty intercooler hoses. Really wish whoever installed my forge intercooler didn't cut them all to ****. Mind you this was before I owned the car. Obviously I would have installed if I had it at the time. bleeeeeehhhhhh! bah humbug


 I'm thinking about going A3 performance's route and getting a custom, pieced, intercooler setup. Sounds cheap but pep boys new speed shop has just about everything needed to create a decent setup. Vibrant piping ranging from 2.25" to 3" tubing, different shapes, or can be ordered. Mishimoto intercooler (don't hate, these are actually pretty good) or precision intercoolers. Many locals utilizing and selling precision pieces so it wouldn't be too tasking to source everything I need in the time frame I've given myself.

Is/has anybody installed their kit without the hpfp upgrade?

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Mishimoto I've heard is actually decent. Vibrant... Haven't heard that name in years!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Mishimoto intercoolers are solid, precision are obviously better. My precision is the 600hp rated core and piping was all done by force fed engineering.. I had to remove my fog light grills due to the 2.5 piping to me it was no biggie. All clamps and couplers used are from vibrant.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

A3Performance said:


> Mishimoto intercoolers are solid, precision are obviously better. My precision is the 600hp rated core and piping was all done by force fed engineering.. I had to remove my fog light grills due to the 2.5 piping to me it was no biggie. All clamps and couplers used are from vibrant.


 Mmhmm.. decent stuff and been around for years. Also, they have both aluminum for easy welding and polished aluminum

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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

The only thing ill need to find out the shapes and pipe ways

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The Golf R unit is no slouch, and a very reasonably-priced mod. Worth considering too.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

From the sounds of it I'm glad I have my 500hp+ core from BSH, although the hoses don't fit 100% so trimming them is a must. I need to redo one of my IC hoses as the cut I did wasn't straight enough, while also using a dull box cutter. Live and learn from that one.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The Golf R unit is no slouch, and a very reasonably-priced mod. Worth considering too.


 That's what I was going to run!


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Its just the same as any other uprated intercooler other than the stock mkv core. A mishimoto can be had, with roughly the same dimensions as the precision or similar, for well less than $300. I'd rather go that route as itll have a helping hand in going beyond vw factory power levels at any platform.

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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

I run a J Hines custom setup. Very economical as well as effective.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

And before the bashing begins.......he signed the consent form for rebarr modification...lol. And it's already held up to one front end impact with a pickup truck :laugh: 

Mine is the same way, although I've got a plan to restructure it, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Too many other cars to play with.....plus it's been like that for almost 4 years now. 
J. Hines 

But a 33"x13"x3" bar and plate core with full 2.5" piping. Cost is about $250 total for core, custom piping and needed 3-2.5" reducer/bends. Not bad and very easy to route piping. Keeps fogs, headlight washers, all grilles fit and bumper requires no trimming at all. :thumbup:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I ran into a thread on another forum. Wagner intercoolers. Anybody use or know?

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

^ what intercoolers yall using?

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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

I'll be running mine with the Golf R intercooler for starters since that's what I have. I'm considering upgrading to either APR (when on sale and selling the Golf R one) or adding a Forge Twintercooler to the S3. I think a clutch will come before that though.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Looks like I'm ordering a new passenger side hose for my Forge FMIC. No matter how I try to finangle this thing, it keeps partially blowing off the stock intercooler inlet under this beast of a 25psi boost. Chalk this one up to a dumb technician when I didn't own the car. One more reason to let nobody work on your fsi except yourself.:screwy:


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## abqgti37 (Aug 30, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> And before the bashing begins.......he signed the consent form for rebarr modification...lol. And it's already held up to one front end impact with a pickup truck :laugh:
> 
> Mine is the same way, although I've got a plan to restructure it, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Too many other cars to play with.....plus it's been like that for almost 4 years now.
> J. Hines
> ...


 How can we order one from you?


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> And before the bashing begins.......he signed the consent form for rebarr modification...lol. And it's already held up to one front end impact with a pickup truck :laugh:
> 
> Mine is the same way, although I've got a plan to restructure it, just haven't gotten around to it yet. Too many other cars to play with.....plus it's been like that for almost 4 years now.
> J. Hines
> ...


 Where did you get the core and what is being used as support on the bottom?


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Looks like I'm ordering a new passenger side hose for my Forge FMIC. No matter how I try to finangle this thing, it keeps partially blowing off the stock intercooler inlet under this beast of a 25psi boost. Chalk this one up to a dumb technician when I didn't own the car. One more reason to let nobody work on your fsi except yourself.:screwy:


 Is the hose too far gone? Or did you try running a different style clamp?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

SmithersSP said:


> I run a J Hines custom setup. Very economical as well as effective.


 Any pics of the under side of the pipe routing?

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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

I rarely discuss my setup because despite it's amazing costerformance ratio using anything less than $1000 cores is a target of scorn in the Vortex. The core was $100, reducers $25, and the piping/couplers was $80. The core is a CXracing 31"x12"x3" bar and plate. Josh would know the details on the plumbing and I don't have any pics of the underside. I always forget to snap one when the car's on the lift. The piping is 2.5" so you need to reducers for the connection to the core; a 2.5"->3" and a 90 degree 2.5"-> 3". After a quick check of my email inbox I had this bill of materials (not including previous mentioned reducers: 
2x 2.5" Straight Aluminum Pipes 
1x 45 Degree Aluminum Pipes 
2x 90 Degree Aluminum Pipes 
4 x 2.5" Straight Silicon Coupler black 
2 x 2.5" 45 Degree Elbow Hose black 
12 x2.5" Stainless Steel T-Clamps 
2 x 3" Stainless T-Clamps 
!!!ACHTUNG!!! DO NOT USE THIS BOM AS A BIBLE AND YELL AT ME FOR THE INACCURACY OF SAID BOM.  








And if structual stability is a concern simply do this:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Mmm, looks good. Can't find myself using those 300 ic kits from ebay but ill buy a $200+\- core anytime. $1000+ for an ic kit is absurd and the economy is besieged with over priced materials, these aren't high end cars, just something we have all taken a liking to based on lifestyle and opinion.

That list should suffice is starting to get wh as t I need. Not many people locally who do they're own work or know how to do this so it'll be a trial and error game in my own little world.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180398


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm gonna try the t-bolt style clamp. If that doesn't work I'm gonna have to get new piping. One thing killing me is how the inlet to the factory IC is so damn short. Barely any room to clamp down.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Anybody know if this will work w/ the F23T? 

http://www.neuspeed.com/136/11/0/1617/480269-hi-flo-k04-turbo-discharge-conversion.html 

I know the supplied aluminum outlet adaptor won't be needed. But does anybody know if that silicone hose neuspeed uses will mate correctly?


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Anybody know if this will work w/ the F23T?
> 
> http://www.neuspeed.com/136/11/0/1617/480269-hi-flo-k04-turbo-discharge-conversion.html
> 
> I know the supplied aluminum outlet adaptor won't be needed. But does anybody know if that silicone hose neuspeed uses will mate correctly?


 Doug will have to answer that one...since I believe the FT23 is really a k03 housing...the only part that may not bolt up is the outlet piece. My stock k04 needed that reducer outlet piece because that side is physically bigger...(disclaimer) I'm having a tough time remembering why it was necessary, other than to match up the size of my Eurojet silicone outlet hose.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Anybody know if this will work w/ the F23T?
> 
> http://www.neuspeed.com/136/11/0/1617/480269-hi-flo-k04-turbo-discharge-conversion.html
> 
> I know the supplied aluminum outlet adaptor won't be needed. But does anybody know if that silicone hose neuspeed uses will mate correctly?


 It should work, perhaps worse case scenario some trimming of the coupler maybe needed.


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## pb4life545 (May 12, 2010)

Pure.Dope said:


> Anybody know if this will work w/ the F23T?
> 
> http://www.neuspeed.com/136/11/0/1617/480269-hi-flo-k04-turbo-discharge-conversion.html
> 
> I know the supplied aluminum outlet adaptor won't be needed. But does anybody know if that silicone hose neuspeed uses will mate correctly?


 i thought they sell one that fits the ko3?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

If anybody else gets this turbo installed, please let me know if you're having the same issue/weirdness I am. Not even sure it's an issue. I have dsg which shifts quickly. When I'm at partial throttle, maybe 10 psi, and the tranny shifts, or I vary the gas pedal, I'm getting a surge/flutter/flutterdump. Not sure what to call it. My boost gauge is bouncing around like crazy for a second and then it will stabilize. Is this just the characteristics of the compressor wheel on such a small turbo? bad? good? normal?


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> If anybody else gets this turbo installed, please let me know if you're having the same issue/weirdness I am. Not even sure it's an issue. I have dsg which shifts quickly. When I'm at partial throttle, maybe 10 psi, and the tranny shifts, or I vary the gas pedal, I'm getting a surge/flutter/flutterdump. Not sure what to call it. My boost gauge is bouncing around like crazy for a second and then it will stabilize. Is this just the characteristics of the compressor wheel on such a small turbo? bad? good? normal?


 Do you have the stock setup for the dsg or do you have some software? I do have the dsg but still waiting on the tune for the turbo, but I still plan to run a stage one United Motorsports tune to the dsg.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

fusionti said:


> Do you have the stock setup for the dsg or do you have some software? I do have the dsg but still waiting on the tune for the turbo, but I still plan to run a stage one United Motorsports tune to the dsg.


 The software is a nice addition, but at the price they go for, its worth waiting on till all other things are well and dandy. I believe that its like that because is drive mode, the dsg will shift sooner, around 2k staying somewhat conservative. 

I think it's a gas hog in D mode. Ill normally daily my dsg in manual mode so I can control the shift points and get better fuel consumption per mile. 

The dsg shifts fast and at a conservative pace of driving it'll bounce up and down depending on if your speeding up, slowing down, going uphill or going downhill.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Mmm, looks good. Can't find myself using those 300 ic kits from ebay but ill buy a $200+\- core anytime. $1000+ for an ic kit is absurd and the economy is besieged with over priced materials, these aren't high end cars, just something we have all taken a liking to based on lifestyle and opinion.
> 
> That list should suffice is starting to get wh as t I need. Not many people locally who do they're own work or know how to do this so it'll be a trial and error game in my own little world.
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


 You just have to do your homework on the cores. Years ago the CXRacing cores had some serious issues with the core constructions. Collapsed cores, leaking plates and just pure hellacious welding jobs. But as of the past few years, their quality has come up a LOT. I have used about every "Cheap" frontmount known to man since I come from the JDM world. I was heavy into DSMs and got my start there, so anyone that knows what they are about....it's building fast cars, for as cheap as possible. They never were the show winning lookers that VAG enthusiasts show, but our cars were d*mn fast and everyone knew it. 

The cores I chose for my setup(and Pete's) are the exact same cores from the same vendor I was using 8+ years when I first started running them. Have never had an issue and actually ran the same core on my GLI that was originally on the Eclipse for during the mock-up and testing phases of my build. So as they may not be your 600hp core from Precision or another comparable company, we weren't shooting for 600hp or anywhere close. So for what we are building our cars to be(sporty, cost efficient DD cars), the intercooler setup was very fitting. And the IAT drops in the HOT Southern weather with 100% humidity speaks for itself on if the intercooler setup is doing it's job.  
J. Hines


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah, I feel what your saying. That's about as far as ill go though. I can't afford to run the risk of using a crumby intercooler without reviews or some sort of information that can be easily obtained.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> Where did you get the core and what is being used as support on the bottom?


 Bottom has 2 braces that basically just pull the bottom of the core in a little and keep it stationary. The weight of the core is all supported by the piping/top mount for the most part. T?he bottom is strapped and the top has the braces made that you see. It's very sturdy to say the least.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> If anybody else gets this turbo installed, please let me know if you're having the same issue/weirdness I am. Not even sure it's an issue. I have dsg which shifts quickly. When I'm at partial throttle, maybe 10 psi, and the tranny shifts, or I vary the gas pedal, I'm getting a surge/flutter/flutterdump. Not sure what to call it. My boost gauge is bouncing around like crazy for a second and then it will stabilize. Is this just the characteristics of the compressor wheel on such a small turbo? bad? good? normal?


 So, with the eurodyne software on my stage 2+ setup, I've been experiencing some of what you're talking about. In S mode, it never stumbles, but sometimes while in D mode when it shifts its like te car hits a brick wall. It sounds/feels bad, like the throttle is suddenly closing for no reason... Or the wastegate is just abruptly opening up, I'm not sure what the issue is though. 

I attributed it to adaptation settings. It seemed to go away after a few days of driving, and came back after I disconnected the battery. 

I'm very curious if others have had similar problems, or if yours, pure.dope, went away after a few days.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

majic said:


> So, with the eurodyne software on my stage 2+ setup, I've been experiencing some of what you're talking about. In S mode, it never stumbles, but sometimes while in D mode when it shifts its like te car hits a brick wall. It sounds/feels bad, like the throttle is suddenly closing for no reason... Or the wastegate is just abruptly opening up, I'm not sure what the issue is though.
> 
> I attributed it to adaptation settings. It seemed to go away after a few days of driving, and came back after I disconnected the battery.
> 
> I'm very curious if others have had similar problems, or if yours, pure.dope, went away after a few days.


 Well I never drive my car in D mode, it doesn't handle the power very well at all. Either keep it S, manual mode, or get the DSG software tune. I've heard then you can use D as it handles the power far better than stock.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I have the REVO DSG tune btw. 

Yeah honestly I've been messing around w/ this so much lately that I've been clearing the ECU/Fault codes almost every day, lol. So I haven't given it time to adapt. I will say that when I bypass the N75, aka running actuator pressure, it behaves a lot better. Also on normal FT tune, my boost builds so god damn quickly, it's almost like the boost duty is set too high. Or maybe I'm just not used to this crazy power, I dunno. I know I should be able to adjust it in Maestro, but don't wanna F anything up, and have no idea what I'd be doing. 

On another note I learned something today. For some reason my car didn't like my new spark plugs on the f23t. They are NGK PFR7B. APR recommends these for the K04 and are factory gapped at .028. I was getting a severe vibration/rumble at 1k-2k rpms since I installed the FT. Couldn't figure it out, and thought it was an engine mount or exhaust component loose. I checked everything and everything was a-ok. Finally last night I decided to throw my old factory plugs in, and voila, the vibration and clunking at low rpms went away. 

I will check the gap today, because I didn't when I installed them. But again, they are supposed to come at .028". 

I recall that a3performance was gapped at .024" 

Ideas anybody?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> I have the REVO DSG tune btw.
> 
> Yeah honestly I've been messing around w/ this so much lately that I've been clearing the ECU/Fault codes almost every day, lol. So I haven't given it time to adapt. I will say that when I bypass the N75, aka running actuator pressure, it behaves a lot better. Also on normal FT tune, my boost builds so god damn quickly, it's almost like the boost duty is set too high. Or maybe I'm just not used to this crazy power, I dunno. I know I should be able to adjust it in Maestro, but don't wanna F anything up, and have no idea what I'd be doing.
> 
> ...


 I think this has less to do with the dsg and more to do with the wastegate settings. I think there's something happening where the software takes a dump around the time you're supposed to shift. Not sure if its n75 related or what. 

Thoughts, Doug? Others? 

Z


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I need to send Doug some logs, but haven't been able to because my intercooler inlet hose keeps partially blowing off. Have some new clamps coming in the mail today which will hopefully solve it. Until then I'm trying not to hit the full 25psi boost. I actually just switched my tune back to only actuator pressure, and am hitting about 14psi. Anything more than about 20psi and that god forsaken hose blows off.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Well I just f'd my k03 so I may be picking one of these up sooner than I thought...

I was an idiot and didn't cover my inlet and I'm pretty sure I dropped a plastic clip in there. I didn't think I did and even looked with a mirror and didn't see it but just went for a drive and got the dentist drill sound. Looked with the mirror again and sure enough some of the impeller blades are damaged. 

My wife is never going to believe bat this wasn't intentional. 

Suggestions? Ha


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

AWWWW Tutti that sucks some major major ass. Wow. That's just a bad day. Sorry that happened to you. I guess you really have no choice but to get a new turbo, whether it be a k03 or ft. 

If it makes you feel any better, here's a vid of my TDI turbo at 40k miles. Dealer fixed under warranty, but still sucked. 

http://youtu.be/vI5OpR5LgB8 

What were you doing that you dropped a clip in there?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Tutti57 said:


> Well I just f'd my k03 so I may be picking one of these up sooner than I thought...
> 
> I was an idiot and didn't cover my inlet and I'm pretty sure I dropped a plastic clip in there. I didn't think I did and even looked with a mirror and didn't see it but just went for a drive and got the dentist drill sound. Looked with the mirror again and sure enough some of the impeller blades are damaged.
> 
> ...


 
I dont believe you either.  

Suggestions?.... Get a f23t.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah, I've got a message out to Doug I get his number to talk. 

I took the intake off to replace a torn coupler and while it was off I took off my hood insulation. 

Dropped on of those clips in there.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> Yeah, I've got a message out to Doug I get his number to talk.
> 
> I took the intake off to replace a torn coupler and while it was off I took off my hood insulation.
> 
> Dropped on of those clips in there.


 Bet you couldn't do it again if you tried!!!


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Talked to Doug. Super nice guy. I'm going to talk to my wife about ordering an ft tonight and running it with a manual boost control until I get a pump and tune. 

When my car is cool enough I'm going to back the nut off of the waste gate as Doug suggested so that it doesn't build boost. 

While tying this, my wife called and has "had it with cars". Basically I'm in deep ****.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

This is the nut, right? Do I want to move it to the right?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

spin that bottom nut all the way down to the end of the rod's threads. Then bring the upper nut down to snug the wastegate control arm tightly between them. Set up in this unconventional fashion, you should have zero preload. In fact, the wastegate valve on your damaged turbo will now be locked open, which will basically transform your car into natural aspiration.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Tutti57 said:


> While tying this, my wife called and has "had it with cars". Basically I'm in deep ****.


 I completely feel your pain here. My wife was really cool about it, but at times in the past couple weeks has been pretty fed up. 

I ran into several problems during my turbo and timing belt install. So I've been ironing things out for a while. Mostly all my issues are resolved, but I can't tell you how many times she went into the garage and just wtf I didn't know you were out here. I will admit she's been a trooper. And we have a two year old :thumbup:


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> spin that bottom nut all the way down to the end of the rod's threads. Then bring the upper nut down to snug the wastegate control arm tightly between them. Set up in this unconventional fashion, you should have zero preload. In fact, the wastegate valve on your damaged turbo will now be locked open, which will basically transform your car into natural aspiration.


 A naturally aspirated car with a gigantic restrictor plate formerly known as a turbo haha


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Her first reaction was not good an it appears as though right now she want me to run it this way for now...any adverse issues for some-what long term running this way?

Just to clarify, I want to spin the nut to the right?

Thanks


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Spin away from wastegate spring housing. Towards the end of the rod. Until it almost falls off, but not that far.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> I have the REVO DSG tune btw.
> 
> Yeah honestly I've been messing around w/ this so much lately that I've been clearing the ECU/Fault codes almost every day, lol. So I haven't given it time to adapt. I will say that when I bypass the N75, aka running actuator pressure, it behaves a lot better. Also on normal FT tune, my boost builds so god damn quickly, it's almost like the boost duty is set too high. Or maybe I'm just not used to this crazy power, I dunno. I know I should be able to adjust it in Maestro, but don't wanna F anything up, and have no idea what I'd be doing.
> 
> ...


 at .020


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

ah yes thx for the correction. Should I try? Maybe step down by .002 increments til it runs good on those plugs?


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Spin away from wastegate spring housing. Towards the end of the rod. Until it almost falls off, but not that far.


 Ok, I've got the nut over there. Do I have to move that splined barrel nut looking thing too? It won't budge.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> ah yes thx for the correction. Should I try? Maybe step down by .002 increments til it runs good on those plugs?


 What do you have to lose? I took my car to FFE during testing and had plugs at .028. Ed the shop owner dropped them down to .020" never had any issues.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

So the F23T tune file I received. Do you know if it's an exact replica of yours? IMO boost seems to come on really quick and strong. Almost seems too aggressive. Is this your experience A3? 

I ask because I'm thinking about getting it tuned at Goodspeed Performance in Scottsdale AZ. They are a Eurodyne dealer/tuner.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Got it. I was just being too wimpy.

I'm still able to get 5 lbs out of it but it will be much easier to stay out of it than before. Thanks


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> IMO boost seems to come on really quick and strong. Almost seems too aggressive. Is this your experience A3?
> 
> I ask because I'm thinking about getting it tuned at Goodspeed Performance in Scottsdale AZ. They are a Eurodyne dealer/tuner.


 Log the car on the zero duty "placeholder" file you've got. That'll tell us exactly how boost levels look on your particular setup. Plus it'll keep things tamped down enough that you (shouldn't) blow off those sketchy hoses. :laugh:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Thx Doug. New t-clamps coming in the mail today to replace the craptastic worm clamps. Hopefully.............this will be good enough. I might even go constant torque t-bolt clamps on every boost hose I have. 

I went back to the zero duty file this morning. Seeing about 14psi w/ hoses on tight. 

So yeah once I can boost this sucker I'll send you some logs. :thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

New t clamps like a champ. Id suggest everybody ditch the worms and get the t.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Tutti57 said:


> Got it. I was just being too wimpy.
> 
> I'm still able to get 5 lbs out of it but it will be much easier to stay out of it than before. Thanks


 
Tutti - my turbo is going in on Thursday. You want my k03? It's perfect still.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> New t clamps like a champ. Id suggest everybody ditch the worms and get the t.


 that's all i use is T-clamps.. I also like to spray hair spray within the couplers for an extra tight seal.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> So the F23T tune file I received. Do you know if it's an exact replica of yours? IMO boost seems to come on really quick and strong. Almost seems too aggressive. Is this your experience A3?
> 
> I ask because I'm thinking about getting it tuned at Goodspeed Performance in Scottsdale AZ. They are a Eurodyne dealer/tuner.


 
At first it took sometime getting used to and after the car adapted everything was fine. Remember this is about 100WHP more than what you're had. I still remember that conversation I had when Doug told me my car was ready.. "remember this car may look like your car but it does not drive like your car". He was right, it's a beast!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

GIAC update?


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

Brokenparts said:


> GIAC update?


 I've been talking to Dave at Auto Union Tuning in Huntington Beach. GIAC is using / used his A3 to develop the software. It's VERY close if not done. As far as how long till it's on the open market....that I can't speak to....but I assume not much longer at all. 

I'll be stopping in to test drive his A3 in the next few days....assuming all is as expected I'll be putting my order in. :laugh:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

TurboChrisB said:


> I've been talking to Dave at Auto Union Tuning in Huntington Beach. GIAC is using / used his A3 to develop the software. It's VERY close if not done. As far as how long till it's on the open market....that I can't speak to....but I assume not much longer at all.
> 
> I'll be stopping in to test drive his A3 in the next few days....assuming all is as expected I'll be putting my order in. :laugh:


Sweet... thanks for the update.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Progress


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Man, comparison shots makes it hard to believe its capable of almost a 200hp increase 

(Not by installing this alone, new kids.)

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

The biggest things I noticed were that the exhaust side is most obviously different. The turbine wheel protrudes a little further out, and the wastegate geometry is flipped. The compressor housing looks mostly the same (but doesn't mean it is the same on the inside)


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, the old turbo came out really easily. But to get the new turbo in, it wouldn't fit... So I detached the passenger side engine mount. When the car is on ramps, and you put a jack under the transmission, the natural tendency is for the engine to rotate forward, and it will open up the space massively. 

Just thought I'd share!


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

@majic that was one of the issues one of the other members was having. I believe the solution was removing the rain cover/above cover

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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

I removed the rain cover as previously described. It helped, but not as much as I'd hoped. I have an A3 versus a gti, not sure if that makes a huge difference but it might.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

majic said:


> I removed the rain cover as previously described. It helped, but not as much as I'd hoped. I have an A3 versus a gti, not sure if that makes a huge difference but it might.


Mmmm... I see. Whatever you find that you most feel most comfortable. 

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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

majic said:


> Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, the old turbo came out really easily. But to get the new turbo in, it wouldn't fit... So I detached the passenger side engine mount. When the car is on ramps, and you put a jack under the transmission, the natural tendency is for the engine to rotate forward, and it will open up the space massively.
> 
> Just thought I'd share!


I had the opposite experience. It was a tight squeeze coming out. The new turbo almost seemed to drop right in when I had the correct angle. Probably just felt that way because gravity was working with me.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm still fighting the battle for spark plugs. Since March, I've gone through 4 sets of spark plugs.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> I'm still fighting the battle for spark plugs. Since March, I've gone through 4 sets of spark plugs.
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk



What is the issue with the plugs? What do they look like? Smell like?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm assuming the carbon build up is the problem. I've changed my valve cover gasket as well as I've heard that may cause misfire for a leaky gasket. I believe my 2 and 4 cylinder plugs are coming up, after taking them out and seeing, the tips are breaking off and there's carbon and burned oil on the tips plus that crusty white residue from the plugs spark.

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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> I'm assuming the carbon build up is the problem. I've changed my valve cover gasket as well as I've heard that may cause misfire for a leaky gasket. I believe my 2 and 4 cylinder plugs are coming up, after taking them out and seeing, the tips are breaking off and there's carbon and burned oil on the tips plus that crusty white residue from the plugs spark.
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


Pics? If the tips of spark plugs are breaking off you have bigger problems. Just the fact that there could potentially be a broken piece of plug in there is bad... You are potentially scarring the inside of your cylinder walls or you could have clearance problems in the head. I've seen situations where the wrist pin gets worn and creates this problem... Hopefully this is not your problem (with luck it blew out the exhaust valve) but if it is it might be a good excuse to upgrade your rods. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Nah, not anymore. Ill have to wait till this new set go, which I already think they did. Lol

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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I don't like the fact that there's no recommendation for spark plugs on this turbo. A3 say that he's running .020" gaps just because FFE said so (which I believe were copper then iridium at one point, but don't quote me). There's no reasoning, or any real testing on which ones work and which don't, and at what gap. Do I need to be the guinea pig here?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

NGK PFR7S8EG, tighten up the gap from stock if you are getting high RPM misfires.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

8- or even 9-series plugs are fine. Plain Jane copper ones. Gap them to .020-.022.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Somebody told me something like that except my piston rings might be bad. I've been contemplating either doing a rebuild, adding upgraded rods in that mix, or a TSI swap.

I'm assuming this turbo kit isnt universal between fsi and tsi...?

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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

The turbo fits and can be used for fsi or tsi afaik. There should be a maestro tune out there for tsi as well.

But seriously, a tsi swap? That seems like a much greater undertaking... Especially for a fwd car. I'm not shooting for more than 330-350whp for that very reason. I don't mind the torque limiting rods because who really wants a burn machine?

On an unrelated note -- a few mentions about the install. The f23 doesn't have some of te stock mount points for the oil-coolant lines. This doesn't affect how they're hooked up, more in how they are secured against vibration/wear. Doubt it will be an issue, but figured I'd mention anyway.

Also, if you get the ecs install kit..: things it does not come with but may be useful: exhaust studs (in case the exhaust nut pulls out the stud). I reused two of my nut/studs, probably won't be an issue but I wish I would have had more studs on hand. And if you're curious, I lubed them up with penetrating lubricant and let them sit for at least 5 or 6 hours

The other thing is it does not include a gasket for the oil return line where it mates up to the oil pan. I reused mine because that's low lying fruit, and if it leaks it will be easy to get to (I may just order a new one today and replace before I start, because motul oil is too expensive to oil my driveway with it).

I'll take pictures when I trim the 90* elbow to fit the turbo discharge pipe to give you guys an idea of how much trimming it will need


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> Somebody told me something like that except my piston rings might be bad. I've been contemplating either doing a rebuild, adding upgraded rods in that mix, or a TSI swap.
> 
> I'm assuming this turbo kit isnt universal between fsi and tsi...?
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


Oh and, with respect to rings being bad, why did who tell you they are bad? Because oil consumption? Compression? Boroscope?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

majic said:


> Oh and, with respect to rings being bad, why did who tell you they are bad? Because oil consumption? Compression? Boroscope?


Idk. Common issue theory. I haven't heard much of piston rings going bad prematurely but crazier **** has happened before.

But I've been trying to research the issue, not much luck with the tips of what to replace that can cause the issue. Ill pick up a set of copper plugs this next time and gap them to .028 and see how they pan out. I know that the recommended gap for tunes but if it'll help me, its only worth a try.

As far as the tsi swap, its a thought for solution to the many fsi problems I've been having. A buddy of mine back in texas blew his fsi motor and the dealer replaced his engine with a tsi engine for free. Lucky bastard.

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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

GTI2Slow said:


> NGK PFR7S8EG, tighten up the gap from stock if you are getting high RPM misfires.


Whoa, reread and who all is using those plugs? Reviews, tests, etc...?

Edit. I have used those. They last for about 3 weeks before the hook tips broke off on cylinders 3 and 4 (if I remember correctly) not to mention theyre $11+ :what:

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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> 8- or even 9-series plugs are fine. Plain Jane copper ones. Gap them to .020-.022.


Doug, I would refrain users from using 9-series. Rule of thumb is for every increment of 100whp to drop 1 step colder. I'm on 7's now (NGK BKR7EIX-11), I ditched the copper plugs because I didn't want to fuss with maintenance. :beer:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> As far as the tsi swap, its a thought for solution to the many fsi problems I've been having. A buddy of mine back in texas blew his fsi motor and the dealer replaced his engine with a tsi engine for free. Lucky bastard.
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk



I don't believe this. 

That is a super complicated swap. 

Not doubting you, just your friends claims. There is no way a dealer did that. 

The entire ecu/wiring loom/ everything has to go. Probably more too.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Could of just been a later fsi revision and they weren't in full understanding. This was a couple of years ago ans I was still rockin my mk4.

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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

majic said:


> On an unrelated note -- a few mentions about the install. The f23 doesn't have some of te stock mount points for the oil-coolant lines. This doesn't affect how they're hooked up, more in how they are secured against vibration/wear. Doubt it will be an issue, but figured I'd mention anyway.
> *I brought the mount point issue up and another member stated this is common w/ all K04 installs*
> 
> Also, if you get the ecs install kit..: things it does not come with but may be useful: exhaust studs (in case the exhaust nut pulls out the stud). I reused two of my nut/studs, probably won't be an issue but I wish I would have had more studs on hand. And if you're curious, I lubed them up with penetrating lubricant and let them sit for at least 5 or 6 hours
> ...


I have the NGK PFR7B platinums. You think thats gonna be ok to stick w/?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> Doug, I would refrain users from using 9-series. Rule of thumb is for every increment of 100whp to drop 1 step colder. I'm on 7's now (NGK BKR7EIX-11), I ditched the copper plugs because I didn't want to fuss with maintenance. :beer:


I've run as cold as 10s with Mk6 coils on the 20v FrankenTT. No issues of buildup. But I did it to maximize timing, and have found the 7-series ones we're using now are every bit as good on that score. Ultimately, the gap has more impact than the temperature. And 7s are easy to come by.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm to head back to advanced auto parts, where I got my plugs, and see if I can get the ones I just purchased last week replaced for defectiveness.

Also, kinda a side note/funny story. While installing the new plugs, I had dropped one down into the intake manifold area. I had to reuse one of the better older plugs till I could get something thin enough to fit down between the intake manifold and lines. 

Ended up buying a "mechanics hand" to fit down and grab the spark plug. I was so pissed when it dropped. As it was falling I immediately thought to myself that I wasn't going to get it out easily. I tried having my wife reach and get it but she's mechanically retarded and made it worse by letting it fall further down.

True story. Down just use plugs out of the box. Perhaps from packaging and transit, the gap may become different them intended and I'm thinking that's what happened with this set to go within the matter of a couple days.

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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Something weird is it appears I'm getting misfires at low RPMs w/ my .028" gap. As the engine warms it clears up. Does this sound right? Gapped my new ones to .022" and gonna install as soon as I get a chance.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Something weird is it appears I'm getting misfires at low RPMs w/ my .028" gap. As the engine warms it clears up. Does this sound right? Gapped my new ones to .022" and gonna install as soon as I get a chance.


With my F23 file, I was getting a few misfires at idle but they did disappear after the car warmed up and adapted.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> With my F23 file, I was getting a few misfires at idle but they did disappear after the car warmed up and adapted.


Heck, my apr 2+ is like this too.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

So it's not a gap issue?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> So it's not a gap issue?


A gap issue would more or less be in the higher rpm range.


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

*FV-QR*

Sorry to sidetrack the conversation guys, but we are in the middle of doing the install on xtravbx's car at the moment. So far everything looks great. We are taking pictures along the way to post here.
We Should have it done tomorow morning and then time for testing!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry to sidetrack the conversation guys, but we are in the middle of doing the install on xtravbx's car at the moment. So far everything looks great. We are taking pictures along the way to post here.
> We Should have it done tomorow morning and then time for testing!


Excellent. I'm looking forward to it. Can't wait to see some feedback from an install(er)point of view. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

Took some beauty pics of the turbo before we started putting it in....


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Took some beauty pics of the turbo before we started putting it in....



This thread is getting MOAR BETTA as it continues... Love the pics. Keep'em rollin.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Killer shots!!! :thumbup:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Took some beauty pics of the turbo before we started putting it in....


These pix put my product shots to shame. Nevertheless, here's one more to document the N75 orientation. Make sure it's correct!!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

so is everyone content with a stock clutch so far? Probably a more appropriate question in a few months from now but I'll put it out there now.

Also along the same lines.... how's the want/need for an LSD. I'm tempted to do all at the same time but if the benefits of the clutch and LSD vs. cost of them isnt worth it I'd rather put my money in a different area of my car or garage/shop/tools (I've been eyeballing one of those home garage lifts).


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> so is everyone content with a stock clutch so far? Probably a more appropriate question in a few months from now but I'll put it out there now.
> 
> Also along the same lines.... how's the want/need for an LSD. I'm tempted to do all at the same time but if the benefits of the clutch and LSD vs. cost of them isnt worth it I'd rather put my money in a different area of my car or garage/shop/tools (I've been eyeballing one of those home garage lifts).


The stock clutch, more importantly pressure plate / flywheel are gonna get smoked. 

I'm not running stock to say. I think a3performance is still on stock tho!!


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## ScottyVW (Sep 4, 2008)

I've been slowly putting together pieces to run a Ko4 application for some time(s3 injectors, APR HPFP, Eurojet TBE, Eurojet Intercooler). My question is could I run this turbo with APR Ko4 software since I'm currently Stage 2+ for the time being until I gather funds for the Eurodyne? thanks :beer:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

ScottyVW said:


> I've been slowly putting together pieces to run a Ko4 application for some time(s3 injectors, APR HPFP, Eurojet TBE, Eurojet Intercooler). My question is could I run this turbo with APR Ko4 software since I'm currently Stage 2+ for the time being until I gather funds for the Eurodyne? thanks :beer:


If you back track a few pages this question has been answered.

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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

ScottyVW said:


> I've been slowly putting together pieces to run a Ko4 application for some time(s3 injectors, APR HPFP, Eurojet TBE, Eurojet Intercooler). My question is could I run this turbo with APR Ko4 software since I'm currently Stage 2+ for the time being until I gather funds for the Eurodyne? thanks :beer:


Stay put another tuner is on deck will be releasing more info soon.


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## ScottyVW (Sep 4, 2008)

Sounds good guys. I'll stay tuned into this as more information gets released. Cheers :beer:


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> These pix put my product shots to shame. Nevertheless, here's one more to document the N75 orientation. Make sure it's correct!!


Thanks for the heads up Doug, we looked into that this afternoon and got it sorted out!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

That N75 looks aye ok!


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Probably will have my car back Tuesday/Wednesday.

Going with a Golf R intercooler and 42DD downpipe w/ cat. We have emission check in Ohio. Plus I prefer less polluted air. Yes, I'm a tree hugging hippie. 

Should be a fun car when it's all wrapped up.

Other mods already done

Southbend stage 2
Fluidampr crank pulley
034 motor mounts
BSH PCV fix
Neuspeed intake

:thumbup:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> Probably will have my car back Tuesday/Wednesday.
> 
> Going with a Golf R intercooler and 42DD downpipe w/ cat. We have emission check in Ohio. Plus I prefer less polluted air. Yes, I'm a tree hugging hippie.
> 
> ...


Any issues or complaints with that southbend clutch?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> Any issues or complaints with that southbend clutch?


I have probably put... 5,000 miles on it? And not a single issue. As a matter of fact I LOVE it. But that could also be in conjunction with the fluidampr pulley.

It sounds mean as hell. Literally, switching to a single mass flywheel and changing the crank pulley, it has a totally new growl to it. Grabs hard, zero slipping. We'll see how it holds up to the F23T. I was just running stage 1 previously.


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## rambag3 (May 17, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I have probably put... 5,000 miles on it? And not a single issue. As a matter of fact I LOVE it. But that could also be in conjunction with the fluidampr pulley.
> 
> It sounds mean as hell. Literally, switching to a single mass flywheel and changing the crank pulley, it has a totally new growl to it. Grabs hard, zero slipping. We'll see how it holds up to the F23T. I was just running stage 1 previously.


You got a hpfp too or no?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I have probably put... 5,000 miles on it? And not a single issue. As a matter of fact I LOVE it. But that could also be in conjunction with the fluidampr pulley.
> 
> It sounds mean as hell. Literally, switching to a single mass flywheel and changing the crank pulley, it has a totally new growl to it. Grabs hard, zero slipping. We'll see how it holds up to the F23T. I was just running stage 1 previously.


That clutch should hold up fine, my OEM clutch is still doing great!


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

rambag3 said:


> You got a hpfp too or no?


Yes, autotech


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> Going with a Golf R intercooler and 42DD downpipe w/ cat.


I approve of the cat staying put. And I also believe you can nevertheless tune it to the power you want.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I approve of the cat staying put. And I also believe you can nevertheless tune it to the power you want.


Tune the car for desired power... 1 million whp okay?

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Got any golf R's running this yet? 

If I'm not mistaken it would be a pretty straight forward swap from mkv fsi to a golf r right?

This might have been touched on before but I'm starting to forget some of the details as this thread gets longer.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

A good turbo would be a bit of a waste without a good intercooler


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> A good turbo would be a bit of a waste without a good intercooler


APR?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Would stepping up to a colder "8" NGK plug solve the cold misfire?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> APR?


Yep. I know there's a lot of talk out there about cost vs effectiveness, but I wanted something proven. It makes you think hard about your priorities though when the inter cooler costs almost as much as the turbo did :/


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Would stepping up to a colder "8" NGK plug solve the cold misfire?


Something to consider that I only started thinking about today as I pulled the intake manifold off... Have you had your cold compression tested? Maybe you're getting misfires because your cold compression is bad...and it might go away once it warms up because stuff is expanding and sealing up,

If that's the case then maybe you should look at your injector seals if they've ever been pulled. The Teflon seals can ruin your compression if they've gone bad.

Misfires on a cold engine seem less likely due to hot plugs because you've got co,d enrichment happening, and your temps should be lower anyway.

Can anyone back me upon that?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Sounds like a great excuse for a manifold removal and valve cleaning


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Sounds like a great excuse for a manifold removal and valve cleaning


It's not as bad as you'd think (getting the manifold off). Worst part is removing the support brace from below. You need an m14 tripplw square that is at least 6" long... Ways around that are placing a shorter socket behind, and the sliding an extension through (you'll understand when you get to it).

Valve cleaning took somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 hours first time I did it. I'll take photos of my valves after one year (were new last year, got a complimentary valve job after a botched job).

I'm considering venting the pcv to the exhaust or even atmosphere. The exhaust valves are dry as a bone, this is ridiculous. It's not really VW/Audi's fault, it's just emissions laws.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

Color me subd


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

majic said:


> It's not as bad as you'd think (getting the manifold off). Worst part is removing the support brace from below. You need an m14 tripplw square that is at least 6" long... Ways around that are placing a shorter socket behind, and the sliding an extension through (you'll understand when you get to it).
> 
> Valve cleaning took somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 hours first time I did it. I'll take photos of my valves after one year (were new last year, got a complimentary valve job after a botched job).
> 
> I'm considering venting the pcv to the exhaust or even atmosphere. The exhaust valves are dry as a bone, this is ridiculous. It's not really VW/Audi's fault, it's just emissions laws.


Great thing about being a tech, we have EVERY tool in evry shape/size known to man to do the job the quickest!!
VIM tools makes some amazing small bits/tools that making working on VAG cars a LOT easier!! :laugh: 
And these are about 1/2" tall and flex ones are about 1". I can have a manifold off in under 20 minutes and whole intake cleaning down in about 2 hours tops if they're DIRTY. Not as bad as people make it out to be, just have to be prepared before you start!

















And they're website.....not sure where else sales their tools. I buy mine from Cornwell Tools that comes to the shop. Have almost every bit set and tool VIM makes just because they are so cheap and handy!
http://www.vimtools.com/home.asp
J. Hines


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

jhines_06gli said:


> And they're website.....not sure where else sales their tools. I buy mine from Cornwell Tools that comes to the shop. Have almost every bit set and tool VIM makes just because they are so cheap and handy!
> http://www.vimtools.com/home.asp
> J. Hines


Link didnt work for me.

I was just thinking and a little bit off topic but could I and can I run a mil-spec 15w40 oil on this engine? The oil is meant for the big turbo diesel engines rangine from 6-cylinder to the big 8-cylinder detroit monsters...? Lol

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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

With regards to the tripplw square bits, all the ones you'd ever want are ~30 dollars on amazon. They've worked out real well for me so far.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000I1Q60O/ref=pd_aw_sim_auto_4?pi=SL500_SS115


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

majic said:


> With regards to the tripplw square bits, all the ones you'd ever want are ~30 dollars on amazon. They've worked out real well for me so far.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000I1Q60O/ref=pd_aw_sim_auto_4?pi=SL500_SS115


Yea......those are made by VIM as well. It's just a matter of finding someone who buys them in bulk like the Amazon dealers. I get them for $25-$35 a set. The flex ones are a litte more due to their design, but all in all........well worth the money!!


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Flex tools rule. I have a vim set and its been great besides one of them strangely snapping off while using a 1/4" ratchet...good thing just about every tool has life time warranty these days.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1Q60O/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006IOZ9JE/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Which ones on amazon of the Vim products are yall using/recommend for the average VAG diy. I'm in nees of some new tools and have a haed time commiting to buying snap on or craftsman or anything of that value and made Harbor Freight my one stop tool spot. If these VIM tools are legit, then ill get all that I nees for future jobs.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I have the set that is in the first link that pure.dope posted. 

I also have a gear wrench set from advance auto that are the long style. Ended up needing them to do the cam chain tensioner since the short ones didnt get me enough clearance on one of the bolts.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

What of that flex tool set? Sounds legit for intake manifold for calve cleaning. I'm in need of doing this.

Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> What of that flex tool set? Sounds legit for intake manifold for calve cleaning. I'm in need of doing this.
> 
> Galaxy S3 via Tapatalk


These are the smallest triple-square set on the market. Made by VIM in 1/4" drive. This with a 6-8" extension and the intake support brace is a breeze!! Literally will fall right into place and no need to sweat it.
http://www.amazon.com/Tools-Stubby-...e=UTF8&qid=1372104855&sr=8-2&keywords=XZNS412

As for the flex set, a little more expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Vim-Products-...=UTF8&qid=1372104960&sr=8-1&keywords=UJXZN100


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

any recent news from the fellas that are in the process of installing? 

Giac news?

dotuning news?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> any recent news from the fellas that are in the process of installing?
> 
> Giac news?
> 
> dotuning news?


I'm sure once GIAC is ready they'll announce it. More details will come shortly regarding dotuning, patience my friend.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> I'm sure once GIAC is ready they'll announce it. More details will come shortly regarding dotuning, patience my friend.


hahaha..... just keepin the thread fresh that's all.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I'll go ahead and keep it fresh when I pick up my ride from HS Tuning, hopefully tomorrow.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> I'll head keep it fresh when I pick up my ride from HS Tuning, hopefully tomorrow.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I'll go ahead and keep it fresh when I pick up my ride from HS Tuning, hopefully tomorrow.


:thumbup: opcorn:


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

xtravbx said:


> I'll go ahead and keep it fresh when I pick up my ride from HS Tuning, hopefully tomorrow.


What are they using for software? Eurodyne?


----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

ll Black Blurr ll said:


> What are they using for software? Eurodyne?


Yes, I have the Maestro / Eurodyne suite.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> Yes, I have the Maestro / Eurodyne suite.


Are they dyno tuning it for you?

I'm still unsure if this "base" file needs adjustment from a tuner.


----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Are they dyno tuning it for you?
> 
> I'm still unsure if this "base" file needs adjustment from a tuner.



No in house dyno there unfortunately. I am going to talk to them about that soon.

I will be driving my other GTI for the most part, until I can play around with logs / software etc.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> No in house dyno there unfortunately. I am going to talk to them about that soon.
> 
> I will be driving my other GTI for the most part, until I can play around with logs / software etc.



That's kinda my issue with Eurodyne.... as much as I love the idea of tuning myself it takes a lot of work and really to do things right it should be done on a dyno (no one this area tunes mkvs on a dyno... just otc tunes) . Just my experience trying to dial in my water/meth was a pain (literally dozens and dozens of logs) and that's nothing compared to all the control you have with Eurodyne. Granted there is a base file to get started there is still alot to do. 

I'm really really torn on the software side of things and is the only reason I havent pulled the trigger on buying the f23t yet. The anticipation of dotuning and GIAC is killing me.... I'd also like to hear the feedback from the Eurodyne users too. If they have good intial success, I'd rather go that route as I feel I could grow more with the car with less reliance on outside tuners to solve my problems (huge learning curve of course). On the flip side of things... its surely nice to be able to install the hardware, flash a tune, and peel out.


Decisions... decisions.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Doug says the base file is very well done. Maybe a3performance can chime in on what tweaks he's needed to do via maestro.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Unreal... on my commute home today my clutch pedal fell to the floor and didnt return. I checked the fluid and its full. I'm assuming a f-up slave cylinder at this point. This may put off my f23t for awhile. 


GRRRR.... unf-ing believable.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Brokenparts said:


> Unreal... on my commute home today my clutch pedal fell to the floor and didnt return. I checked the fluid and its full. I'm assuming a f-up slave cylinder at this point. This may put off my f23t for awhile.
> 
> 
> GRRRR.... unf-ing believable.


Actually f-it... 

Doug, how fast could you have a f23t here (Oregon)?

How about some recommendations for clutch setups (LSD too) for the f23t? I guess the time is now!


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Brokenparts said:


> Actually f-it...
> 
> Doug, how fast could you have a f23t here (Oregon)?


Get in line buddy I'm waiting on mine  Must have sold all of the first shipment.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

dammit... its going to have to wait then. If I get my hands on one in the next few days then I'd do it but I got to get this thing back on the road quickly as its my daily driver.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

In case anyone is curious, I discovered that the ECS kit is, again, slightly deficient on what you need to install the turbo. Specifically, it does not have all the gaskets you need for the banjo bolts. It appears as though they only included 7, and by the turbo diagram you need a total of 8. 

Here's a pic from eBah (Bentley) for reference


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I'll say it again. At no point did I have to remove the engine side oil line. ECS kit is sufficient.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> I'll say it again. At no point did I have to remove the engine side oil line. ECS kit is sufficient.


I don't want to make this a pissing match, I'm just trying to be helpful. I'm sure it can be sufficient, but lets face it, sometimes things happen. You can't mobilize the turbo, you can't reach bolts because the geometry is different. As far as I can tell, I had to remove those items or I couldn't get to some of the hardware with my tool-set.

I'm not bashing the kit, I'm just helping those diy'ers by giving them something to consider before going in.

I'm sure they appreciate your input, too.


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## markillo (May 16, 2013)

the turbo is all set on my Seat Leon Cupra Mk2, 2008, just had to deal with relocate the DV.

idk yet how its running, ill tell you tomorrow. and eventually I'm planning the Giac, maybe next week, i want to try it stock first!

i have some pics, but dunno how to upload them!!! can anyone help me???

Cheers

Marco


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

markillo said:


> the turbo is all set on my Seat Leon Cupra Mk2, 2008, just had to deal with relocate the DV.
> 
> idk yet how its running, ill tell you tomorrow. and eventually I'm planning the Giac, maybe next week, i want to try it stock first!
> 
> ...



When you post results Marco, please remind everyone what software you are running - so as not to give the hardware bad results!


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

markillo said:


> the turbo is all set on my Seat Leon Cupra Mk2, 2008, just had to deal with relocate the DV.
> 
> idk yet how its running, ill tell you tomorrow. and eventually I'm planning the Giac, maybe next week, i want to try it stock first!
> 
> ...


Try imgur.com, no account required, free, and anonymous


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Just in case anybody is thinking about it......DO NOT GET THE FORGE TWINTERCOOLER FMIC. It's a piece of garbage and the hoses don't fit. I bought a replacement for the already ****ed up passenger side hose for $150 and it still doesn't fit right. Going for the Golf-R intercooler cauase I'm sick of this ****. Intercooler hosing w/ one inlet and two outlets is just a bad idea to begin with. As far as I'm concerned Forge will never get my business again.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> Just in case anybody is thinking about it......DO NOT GET THE FORGE TWINTERCOOLER FMIC. It's a piece of garbage and the hoses don't fit.


Based on logs I've seen from a shop tuning their FSI on the F23T, this warning goes DOUBLE for the Godspeed equivalent. Owing to poor hoses, that car is stuck using only the FMIC portion and it's really laggy as a result.




Pure.Dope said:


> Going for the Golf-R intercooler cauase I'm sick of this ****. Intercooler hosing w/ one inlet and two outlets is just a bad idea to begin with. As far as I'm concerned Forge will never get my business again.



I think the Golf R is the strongest option out there. Inexpensive, easy to install & better capacity than stock.


----------



## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

We are wrapping up the install in the shop today. We're waiting on some parts, but we ended up putting in a 42 Draft Designs downpipe and a Golf R Intercooler on the car!
Buttoning everything up in a bit then onto testing!

Just a few pics for right now, I'll get some more comin later!

This system is definitely looking good ... everything fits nicely so far.




*comparison of the stock k03 to the f23!*













*Great lines and fittings fitment along with the hangers. The 42 Draft Designs downpipe looks great up there with it*














*Beautiful!*


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Based on logs I've seen from a shop tuning their FSI on the F23T, this warning goes DOUBLE for the Godspeed equivalent. Owing to poor hoses, that car is stuck using only the FMIC portion and it's really laggy as a result.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So this is the APR vs the golf-r intercooler for comparison.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Based on logs I've seen from a shop tuning their FSI on the F23T, this warning goes DOUBLE for the Godspeed equivalent. Owing to poor hoses, that car is stuck using only the FMIC portion and it's really laggy as a result.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. I have a Godspeed fmic. My fitment was good and the hoses weren't an issue either. I didn't see a huge drop in temps but some... my experience hss been pretty positive but with the f23t it nay be different. Can you give a bit more detail on this? 

The godspeed was cheap so I'm not going to get butt hurt if logs say its better to remove it. Since I am running water/meth its somewhat redundant anyway.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The customer has their "version 1" twintercooler type setup. But with the car's main intercooler not hooked up, this is just too small for good flow:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The customer has their "version 1" twintercooler type setup. But with the car's main intercooler not hooked up, this is just too small for good flow:


Interesting... have the "twin cooler" style that have that utilizes the stock intercooler too. I wonder if that is why I have had better results.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

If I were in the market to get an intercooler and had to do it again. Hands down the APR intercooler, no question!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> If I were in the market to get an intercooler and had to do it again. Hands down the APR intercooler, no question!


Was your twintake in use while you dyno'd your car?


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> The customer has their "version 1" twintercooler type setup. But with the car's main intercooler not hooked up, this is just too small for good flow:


I have the ATP "400hp" Garrett core FMIC, which looks about the same size size as this Godspeed. Are you saying the Godspeed (and I'm assuming the ATP as well) doesn't work as well as a Golf R IC? Would you consider my ATP FMIC inadequate for a Frankenturbo, or even my current K04 setup?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Install from the boys at HS tuning went great as you can see by the pictures Nate posted. 

Doesn't feel like its making enough power. Misfiring up top. Changed the plugs to bk7reix. Gapped to .28 

I will being the gap in some. 

I need to run boost logs, timing logs, and I suppose fuel logs. 

Definitely not making enough power just yet. 

Doug has quickly responded to emails - but I don't know what to log in VCDS specifically to find the issues. 

Also I had zero misfires before installation.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Sorry to hear that man but at least you are closer than the rest of us. I'm sure you'll get the details ironed out soon. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah the misfires are making me a little nervous to start my install in a week or so. I'm hoping the .dotuning works without those issues.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Doug is super responsive and helpful so I'm sure it will get straightened out.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> Was your twintake in use while you dyno'd your car?


yes


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

fusionti said:


> Yeah the misfires are making me a little nervous to start my install in a week or so. I'm hoping the .dotuning works without those issues.


Mafless, is the key.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> Mafless, is the key.


I figured mafless would probably be the way to go, considering it is quite popular among the maestro community. 

So if we're running mafless, can we just use a dump valve instead of a diverter valve?

Also, any theories about the misfires? There's been a lot of discussion about plugs and gaps etc... Any solid advice from a3performance or Doug as to which plugs and at what gap we should start out with?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> Mafless, is the key.


I thought you were successfully running Maestro tho?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> I figured mafless would probably be the way to go, considering it is quite popular among the maestro community.
> 
> So if we're running mafless, can we just use a dump valve instead of a diverter valve?
> 
> Also, any theories about the misfires? There's been a lot of discussion about plugs and gaps etc... Any solid advice from a3performance or Doug as to which plugs and at what gap we should start out with?


The dump valve question is a good one, me personally.. OEM lets keep the ECU happy. As for plugs, I'm running 1 step colder NGK Iridiums (copper works fine) gapped at .020".


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I thought you were successfully running Maestro tho?


Maestro runs fine, just going to experiment with .dotuning and a MAFLESS file.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> The dump valve question is a good one, me personally.. OEM lets keep the ECU happy. As for plugs, I'm running 1 step colder NGK Iridiums (copper works fine) gapped at .020".


Keeps the ecu happy? If you're running mafless, then aren't the injection PWM's being determined only by the MAP and IAT? The problem with vent to atmosphere systems, I thought, were that unless you have a blow-through maf setup (which comes with it's own problems like turbulence) post turbo, then you're venting metered air. But if the MAF isn't doing the air metering, then the air mass is being calculated by the map/iat.

Are you currently running mafless (I.e. disconnect MAF and no codes, no limp?)


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> Keeps the ecu happy? If you're running mafless, then aren't the injection PWM's being determined only by the MAP and IAT? The problem with vent to atmosphere systems, I thought, were that unless you have a blow-through maf setup (which comes with it's own problems like turbulence) post turbo, then you're venting metered air. But if the MAF isn't doing the air metering, then the air mass is being calculated by the map/iat.
> 
> Are you currently running mafless (I.e. disconnect MAF and no codes, no limp?)


I'm running on the MAF with Maestro. The reason why I said is keeping the ECU happy is all because of how the DV is controlled. i would then have to block off the DV, get a BOV with adaptor welded on my plumbing somehow. Which deviates from it being plug play and OEM like.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm also into plug and play... The reason that I really like this turbo is the simplicity. I've done some pretty big builds in my day on other platforms and I end up getting so far into them that complexity gets overwhelming and they no longer are fun... no matter how much power you are running. 

There is a point of diminishing returns on builds. I think the avenue that the f23t provides is simple, cheap(er), and provides enough gains to keep most users/buyers happy. I've been holding out because I want the most simple path to hp/tq.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

xtravbx said:


> Install from the boys at HS tuning went great as you can see by the pictures Nate posted.
> 
> Doesn't feel like its making enough power. Misfiring up top. Changed the plugs to bk7reix. Gapped to .28
> 
> ...


Left the gap at .28 and put in R8 coils at the suggestion of HS tuning. 

Misfires are all gone!

Will report back more after running some logs etc.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Pretty sure when I did my timing belt I had it a tooth off. Even after counting all the teeth on the old belt and xfering to the new one, then cranking two revolutions on the crankshaft. Not sure how it happened, but I'm gonna check it asap.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

To check it I believe you have to have the cam alignment tool on the cams and then see if the marks line up on the TB.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Still getting misfires up top, w/ new plugs and R8 coils.

tbh, as it stands, it is not plug and play....


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Still getting misfires up top, w/ new plugs and R8 coils.
> 
> tbh, as it stands, it is not plug and play....


Try your stock engine cover. I had a similar issue and C. Tapp resolved it via tweaking the file.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

xtravbx said:


> Still getting misfires up top, w/ new plugs and R8 coils.
> 
> tbh, as it stands, it is not plug and play....


Stock injectors, or have they been replaced/ tampered with?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Totally stock. Intake manifold has never been removed. 

Never had a misfire until the install. 

My fuel pressure is solid. One of the few things I've been able to log.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> Try your stock engine cover. I had a similar issue and C. Tapp resolved it via tweaking the file.


I will try stock intake/cover next


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

quick preview of .dotuning software capabilities. 


http://s70.photobucket.com/user/jurzechik/media/dotuning_launch_zpsaa8c2a01.mp4.html


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Misfires... Oh how they plague my life with headaches. Consensus says piston rings are either burned up or became improperly seated.

With that said, this has put a huge damper in time when I will be ordering one of these bad boys. My assumption, I'll need to have a mild rebuild of my cars engine. I may opted for rods and forged pistons if I can help it.

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Misfires... Oh how they plague my life with headaches. Consensus says piston rings are either burned up or became improperly seated.
> 
> With that said, this has put a huge damper in time when I will be ordering one of these bad boys. My assumption, I'll need to have a mild rebuild of my cars engine. I may opted for rods and forged pistons if I can help it.
> 
> Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2


How are rings causing misfires? Unless you're dropping compression. Don't see rings as being the issue with your misfires. I've seen misfires on FSI/TSI engine for dozens and dozens of reasons, but never for rings. See oil consumption for rings on some engines, but that's about it. And was usually early 2006 models where VW told us straight up that they goofed and installed some rings with gaps too close/in line.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Look close and you can see the crankshaft pulley notch about a half inch to the right of the "OT Arrow"








Showing camshaft sprocket lined up w/ OT Arrow.









I dun goofed. No wonder I've had low rpm issues. LOLLLLLLL. Fixing it next week.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Oil getting in the combustion chamber in turn burning, quite literally melting, spark plugs.

I'll post pics once I get photos. I had my phone stolen at work. Damn young soldiers thinking they can do whatever they want.

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Look close and you can see the crankshaft pulley notch about a half inch to the right of the "OT Arrow"
> 
> I dun goofed. No wonder I've had low rpm issues. LOLLLLLLL. Fixing it next week.


You have VagCom? Curious why you don't have fault for crank to cam correlation. Have them come in to the shop all the time 1 tooth off or tensioned improperly, and MIL is on. If you have access to VagCom, run basic settings 94 in Engine and see if it passes. And see what MVB 91 and 93 read.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Went WOT in 5th gear. My boost flutters like crazy from 15-20psi. 

Any clue why I'm seeing this?

It jumps up and down literally back and forth 3-4x a second. I could try and get a video of it.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Sounds like compressor surge.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

jhines_06gli said:


> You have VagCom? Curious why you don't have fault for crank to cam correlation. Have them come in to the shop all the time 1 tooth off or tensioned improperly, and MIL is on. If you have access to VagCom, run basic settings 94 in Engine and see if it passes. And see what MVB 91 and 93 read.


I have a vagcom. I'll run those and see what they say. No CEL thus far though.

Just to confirm, my OT arrow above camshaft sprocket and timing belt cover should be lined up w/ the respective notches, correct?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> Still getting misfires up top, w/ new plugs and R8 coils.
> 
> tbh, as it stands, it is not plug and play....





filthyillness said:


> Misfires... Oh how they plague my life with headaches.



Here's something to consider: if you're running an aftermarket intake system -- one which replaces the OEM MAF housing -- you should restore it to stock. GIAC and AU Tuning chased their tails with misfire problems until Dave at AU Tuning researched his intake system. Turns out that while it's fine on stock K03 airflows, when the boost is upped, misfires are common.

It completely escapes me how aftermarket manufacturers think it's acceptable to mess with the MAF. It's absolutely not. As for the GIAC test car, it's running perfectly on a stock intake system. Misfires are gone like the buffalo.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Here's something to consider: if you're running an aftermarket intake system -- one which replaces the OEM MAF housing -- you should restore it to stock. GIAC and AU Tuning chased their tails with misfire problems until Dave at AU Tuning researched his intake system. Turns out that while it's fine on stock K03 airflows, when the boost is upped, misfires are common.
> 
> It completely escapes me how aftermarket manufacturers think it's acceptable to mess with the MAF. It's absolutely not. As for the GIAC test car, it's running perfectly on a stock intake system. Misfires are gone like the buffalo.


I agree 100%, the TSI style engine always retains it's OEM Mass Air Flow housing with aftermarket intakes. FSI has it built in its engine cover which only the carbonio intake uses it. Every other intake will never get it right since all intakes will have different diameters. FSI MAF houses is 2.65" oval shaped with a flow straightener in front of it. When you get tuned and a turbo that flows more like an F23 the MAF sensor attempts to compensate from the different dimensions which then lead to high LTFT's, misfires, surging, etc.


----------



## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Here's something to consider: if you're running an aftermarket intake system -- one which replaces the OEM MAF housing -- you should restore it to stock. GIAC and AU Tuning chased their tails with misfire problems until Dave at AU Tuning researched his intake system. Turns out that while it's fine on stock K03 airflows, when the boost is upped, misfires are common.
> 
> It completely escapes me how aftermarket manufacturers think it's acceptable to mess with the MAF. It's absolutely not. As for the GIAC test car, it's running perfectly on a stock intake system. Misfires are gone like the buffalo.


Because it was cheaper for them to make a single round housing then worrying about shaping it to work. As it stand the best solution will be going with .dotuning and running it maf-less.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

so going with a intake such as the carbonio would be more benefical than my p-flo? Or is stock just flat out better?


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

fusionti said:


> Because it was cheaper for them to make a single round housing then worrying about shaping it to work. As it stand the best solution will be going with .dotuning and running it maf-less.


Nailed it!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> so going with a intake such as the carbonio would be more benefical than my p-flo? Or is stock just flat out better?


Carbonio will flow and keep the MAF happier than a P-Flo anyday


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Carbonio will flow and keep the MAF happier than a P-Flo anyday


I was so naive. :banghead: 

Oh well.... Just dropped almost 3 grand on a clutch, FSB, RSB, wavetrac, fluidampr and some other misc junk. What's another $250 hahahaa.


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> I was so naive. :banghead:
> 
> Oh well.... Just dropped almost 3 grand on a clutch, FSB, RSB, wavetrac, fluidampr and some other misc junk. What's another $250 hahahaa.


The fluidamper is a bit over kill for an F23T especially on a stock block. Get rods done instead and enjoy a nicer powerband.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> The fluidamper is a bit over kill for an F23T especially on a stock block. Get rods done instead and enjoy a nicer powerband.



Oh, I know... just kinda one of those things that I'm doing as long as I'm there. I like to future proof things. 

I'm also not entirely dead set on the f23t (although 99% sure)... still have BT/dotuning in the back of my head too.


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Exactly the reason I ditched the DV relocate and went to stock intake. If you don't have a intake/cover you can most likely find one cheap on classifieds. I lucked out and found one local.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Exactly the reason I ditched the DV relocate and went to stock intake. If you don't have a intake/cover you can most likely find one cheap on classifieds. I lucked out and found one local.


Same here and then I made a customized OEM housing with the Forge Twintake.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

A3Performance said:


> The fluidamper is a bit over kill for an F23T especially on a stock block. Get rods done instead and enjoy a nicer powerband.


100% False if you have a Lightened Fly Wheel then you SHOULD uses the Fluid dampner...Trust me I have run it both ways. Reverse is almost useless without it

Do you understand what the fluid dampner actually does??


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Rub-ISH said:


> 100% False if you have a Lightened Fly Wheel then you SHOULD uses the Fluid dampner...Trust me I have run it both ways. Reverse is almost useless without it


This was part of the equation as well as my new clutch will be single mass. xtrabx runs the setup and it sounds like he likes it quite a bit.


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Rub-ISH said:


> 100% False if you have a Lightened Fly Wheel then you SHOULD uses the Fluid dampner...Trust me I have run it both ways. Reverse is almost useless without it
> 
> Do you understand what the fluid dampner actually does??


I'm not saying fluidamper is a bad part to have. I'm just stating for the cost of it I would have rather buy rods. Built internals will hold more power than a harmonic balancer mod.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> I'm not saying fluidamper is a bad part to have. I'm just stating for the cost of it I would have rather buy rods. Built internals will hold more power than a harmonic balancer mod.


Yes, however rods are not something I'm completely comfortable doing myself and are expensive to have a shop install. I'm not saying rods arent something I'm going to do but the timing isnt right for them yet.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> Yes, however rods are not something I'm completely comfortable doing myself and are expensive to have a shop install. I'm not saying rods arent something I'm going to do but the timing isnt right for them yet.


I agree sort of the same boat I'm in, lol. Really considering it, so I can squeeze some more out of this bad boy.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

The other problem I have with rods is that if I'm going to do them... I might as well do pistons. If I do rods and pistons... then I should upgrade valves, springs, etc. If I do that... I should skip the the F23t and go BT. 


Slippery slope. I've down this road before with chevy motors. It can get away from you pretty quick and at some point the fun is surpassed by constantly wrenchin' on your junk trying to make things work. When things work its great... but when things break or dont work out right you spend more time with your POS in the garage wishin you never would have touched it in the first place. 

I keep trying to convince myself to keep things simple.... I'm doing better than previous projects I've worked on but I'm pointed downhill and gaining momentum.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

From my limited understanding, even BT guys only do rods. Just a thought.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

I just installed rods and have had the fluid damper installed since shortly after the clutch and LSD installed. Two totally different worlds. Installing a fluid dampner should only require an hour tops of labor. Rods are at least 12-14 hours of labor. Do the math! 

FYI I only did rods and the pistons are more than adequate for high HP builds. Once you change pistons you have to hone the block and that is $$$, don't even think of messing with the compression with out a tuner well versed in such things. 

C'mon guys this thread is jammed packed with noob info lets not speak on hearsay as gospel


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Rub-ISH said:


> I just installed rods and have had the fluid damper installed since shortly after the clutch and LSD installed. Two totally different worlds. Installing a fluid dampner should only require an hour tops of labor. Rods are at least 12-14 hours of labor. Do the math!
> 
> FYI I only did rods and the pistons are more than adequate for high HP builds. Once you change pistons you have to hone the block and that is $$$, don't even think of messing with the compression with out a tuner well versed in such things.
> 
> C'mon guys this thread is jammed packed with noob info lets not speak on hearsay as gospel


Again, the beauty of the F23t in mind is the simplicity. Doesnt require rods, pretty much bolts up, and makes good bang for buck power. Adding rods diminishes part of that value in my mind. 

My point and the way I go about projects is that I dont like to leave a whole lot on the table when I get into something. I've kicked myself numerous times where I wish I would have spent the extra bucks to go the whole way when I want to "upgrade" again. Saving a buck on the front side cost me more money on the backside when I decide to change the direction of my build again. For me, I know I wouldnt be satisfied with just doing the rods if I decided to go that route. Everyone has their own goals in mind though. 

I like the cost vs. reward with the f23t and want to stay clear of all the associated headaches that go along with builds beyond it. 

ANYWAY.... you guys got those misfires under control yet?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

You're right, I just got a bit carried away when I was at FFE yesterday and saw all those beasts that they're currently working on. 

This thread is all about keeping this kit PnP, affordable, with rewards.


----------



## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

For anyone debating what to do about the turbo outlet, someone just posted a quick "here's what I did.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...y-own-turbo-outlet...&p=82339378#post82339378

Not a bad idea... I just got my silicone 90* hose working. If I wasn't interested in selling the car with the stock turbo someday, I might consider this.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> quick preview of .dotuning software capabilities.
> 
> 
> http://s70.photobucket.com/user/jurzechik/media/dotuning_launch_zpsaa8c2a01.mp4.html


Is this link working correctly?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Tutti57 said:


> Is this link working correctly?



Tutti - did you ever get your k03 fixed? 

You want my old one? It's perfect.


edit: the link works. It's interesting..


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> I'm not saying fluidamper is a bad part to have. I'm just stating for the cost of it I would have rather buy rods. Built internals will hold more power than a harmonic balancer mod.




2 different purposes! You don't get the fluidampr for power. You get it to keep things tight and smooth. And a few HP return isn't bad either.

My brother drove my car after installation and immediately said "this car is SO TIGHT."


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

Doesn't the removal of the dual mass flywheel necessitate, or highly recommend, a harmonic/fluid dampener of some sorts.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

My misfires are caused by the spark plugs melting/breaking tips off. The most recent one I pulled, the iridium tip melted down into the threaded putter area. I'll post pics of what I mean. It's rather annoying that I'm having this problem and I've tried searching but haven't found much of anything similar or exact to my case.

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

bificus99 said:


> Doesn't the removal of the dual mass flywheel necessitate, or highly recommend, a harmonic/fluid dampener of some sorts.


yes


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Wouldn't that indicate a lean burn? Is it all of the plugs?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Tutti57 said:


> Wouldn't that indicate a lean burn? Is it all of the plugs?


All do show signs of enriched burning on the plugs. 1-2 of the tips will break/burn off. The only thing I've been told is that piston rings are bad or something with fuel and burning too hot. Kinda nobody but temp gauge shows no irregularities as far as normal operation.

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> All do show signs of enriched burning on the plugs. 1-2 of the tips will break/burn off. The only thing I've been told is that piston rings are bad or something with fuel and burning too hot. Kinda nobody but temp gauge shows no irregularities as far as normal operation.
> 
> Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2


Which temp gauge? EGT, or engine temp? If you're looking at the engine temp gauge that's the water temp. The coolant system has a high capacity for regulating the coolant temp and maintaining a solid 180-190* operating temp.

If you want to get EGT, you're going to need a standalone wbo2 sensor, as I think egt's aren't directly reported under vag-com. Anyone back me up on that?

Also, what is evidence of burning rich? What do they look like... Black or white?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> Is this link working correctly?


http://s70.photobucket.com/user/jurzechik/media/dotuning_launch_zpsaa8c2a01.mp4.html


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Also, burning rich should lower combustion temps. If you're rich it has the effect of incomplete combustion. Too much gas or not enough air, not all the gas is going to go boom. There is also the concept of latent heat absorption with excessively rich conditions, where the unspent fuel will actually absorb some of the heat from the exhaust gas and cylinder walls and vaporize. This state change also accounts for some degree of lowered EGT's.

I would be inclined to say if your plugs are burning or melting, it's because of a lean condition. Dangerously leaned fuel trims have been known to burn holes through cast pistons (2.0t pistons are forged if I'm not mistaken). So hopefully that doesn't become an issue.

Lastly, you haven't changed the head gasket have you? If that changes overhead clearance there may be a chance of the piston impacting the spark plug. It's a remote chance, but still should be considered.

I suspect you need cooler plugs, and a quick review of the amount of boost you're creating, or the intake temps. Do you have any vag-com logs?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

majic said:


> Also, burning rich should lower combustion temps. If you're rich it has the effect of incomplete combustion. Too much gas or not enough air, not all the gas is going to go boom. There is also the concept of latent heat absorption with excessively rich conditions, where the unspent fuel will actually absorb some of the heat from the exhaust gas and cylinder walls and vaporize. This state change also accounts for some degree of lowered EGT's.
> 
> I would be inclined to say if your plugs are burning or melting, it's because of a lean condition. Dangerously leaned fuel trims have been known to burn holes through cast pistons (2.0t pistons are forged if I'm not mistaken). So hopefully that doesn't become an issue.
> 
> ...


No, I do not. Still looking for a local with vcds but I'm also planning on getting it for myself. The plugs if pulled after a few miles will be black, if pulled later will have white and less black. I do believe it is a leaning out problem after a but of research and asking around.

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

How about a vacuum leak at higher sealing thresholds.... what I mean is that no vacuum leaks then as the pressure difference builds up a leak occurs and then suddenly induces a lean condition. At that point the ecu could go crazy trying to compensate. 


Granted it kinda a long shot but I'd thought i d throw it out there. I had this happen on my old big block through the intake manifold. I chased my tail for weeks trying to figure it out. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

You can rule out ring issues pretty quick by getting a compression tester. You can borrow them from auto zone or oriley's pretty easily. 

Also, do you have the f23t installed, or are you still on a k03 setup? What software, and do you have a MBC or just relying on the N75 to do the job? N75 might be a bit of a slouch at holding back big boost if your preload isn't set low enough. 

Have you tried just running on wastegate spring pressure, or checking the current wastegate cracking pressure?

If you're lean, you're either not getting enough fuel or pushing more air than the ecu can keep up with.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

white/melted = lean

rich = fouled up but never melted.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

There is a rumor from golfmkv that GIAC isnt pursuing a f23t tune? Can anyone confirm or deny this?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Brokenparts said:


> There is a rumor from golfmkv that GIAC isnt pursuing a f23t tune? Can anyone confirm or deny this?


well considering 


[email protected] said:


> As for the GIAC test car, it's running perfectly on a stock intake system. Misfires are gone like the buffalo.


but I'm sure a phone call or two could dispel or confirm such rumor.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> well considering
> 
> 
> but I'm sure a phone call or two could dispel or confirm such rumor.


I did see that however... releasing a tune to wider user base with variable hardware to throw into the equation might be more headache than they are willing to take on. I hope this isnt the case nor is my intention to spread rumors. In fact, just the opposite.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> well considering
> 
> 
> but I'm sure a phone call or two could dispel or confirm such rumor.


Misfires sure as heck aren't gone on Maestro. Gonna email Chris Tapp when I get a moment today and see what he would like me to try. Going to also run stock intake today after work.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

So what is a3performance doing that you guys aren't? He's not getting misfires is he?

What does your timing look like from vcds logs (for those having misfires)


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> Misfires sure as heck aren't gone on Maestro. Gonna email Chris Tapp when I get a moment today and see what he would like me to try. Going to also run stock intake today after work.


Do the intake swap before making any other changes.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

majic said:


> So what is a3performance doing that you guys aren't? He's not getting misfires is he?
> 
> What does your timing look like from vcds logs (for those having misfires)


Well I'm sure a crap load of in house dyno assisted maestro adjustment, wastegate preload and spark plug gap manipulation didn't hurt on getting his fine tuned. 

and then again maybe we don't know everything (I sure as heck wouldn't be experimenting with mafless .dotuning file just for kicks when my 350whp maestro is running like a top. wouldn't even cross my mind). Not to speculate just saying.

Whatever the case I'm no more concerned about it here than I am about the zillion k04s with the same issues. It will get sorted with tuning or hardware changes.

In for results with stock airbox (had mine for sale. glad it didn't sell lol just in case. I'll still be starting off with the P-flo since I'm still getting under 2% fuel trims)


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> In for results with stock airbox (had mine for sale. glad it didn't sell lol just in case. I'll still be starting off with the P-flo since I'm still getting under 2% fuel trims)


It's almost a certainty your car will misfire up top on the P-Flo. Dust off that stock airbox; you'll be making use of it.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> It's almost a certainty your car will misfire up top on the P-Flo. Dust off that stock airbox; you'll be making use of it.


any issue with running the carbonio intake? I understand that there isnt too much difference between stock and it... just looks better aesthetically and I would prefer it over the stock but dont want to create a maf issue for the sake of looks.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

oh... and there was a response on golfmkv about the GIAC tune.


as stated from "that240guy" on golfmkv:

"This is completely false. I own the A3 F23 GIAC test car. We are nearing completion of the tune and hope to start marketing it very soon."


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

^ werd.

Also, I utilize the p-flow intake. Is using an aftermarket intake an issue like it was on the old 16v/8v engines?

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> There is a rumor from golfmkv that GIAC isnt pursuing a f23t tune? Can anyone confirm or deny this?


GIAC is still working with their dealer partner AU Tuning on an FSI flash for the F23T. They've been in regular contact with me and have been supplying work-in-progress logs. At this stage, every indication is that GIAC is pursuing this enthusiastically.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

I remember A3Performance posting about this "Frankenturbo" a few months ago, and didn't really think much about it other than "that's cool..." at the time. Well, I just finished reading through this entire thread while trying to figure out what I could sell to scrape together the cash to order one  You guys keep working on getting all the kinks out, and hopefully by the time I have the money saved up this will be an even easier process than it already is. Fortunately I have all of the other supporting mods in place, so I'll just be looking at the turbo and Maestro system to get me going :thumbup:


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

If you'll take a gander at the GIAC FB page...you will see where they are at with regards to a file


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> It's almost a certainty your car will misfire up top on the P-Flo. Dust off that stock airbox; you'll be making use of it.


If it IS the intake, then WHY is it causing these problems? I'm just curious what the working theories out there are.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Indeed. I've always known neuspeed to make some quality parts for vw... I'm so confused with this engine

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majic said:


> If it IS the intake, then WHY is it causing these problems? I'm just curious what the working theories out there are.


If it stopped raining like crazy I will swap mine off for stock cover shortly. Otherwise it will be tomorrow AM. And I'll post my findings.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> It's almost a certainty your car will misfire up top on the P-Flo. Dust off that stock airbox; you'll be making use of it.


Also -- any idea if this could be a bad MAF? One that is "bent" but not necessarily broken, so it won't throw a CEL under what would be ordinary parameters?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> If it IS the intake, then WHY is it causing these problems? I'm just curious what the working theories out there are.


all tunes are written to work around OEM MAF parameters. Introduce a higher flowing turbo in the mix with an intake that has a MAF housing that will never replicate a 2.65 Oval shape with flow straightener. Thats why K04/F23 are having these type of problems. Solution, run OEM MAF or go MAFLESS is how I see it.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm on stock k03 with pflow, r8 coil packs, and apr dp for mods. Thanks to a local, ill be swapping in an oem golf r ic for a damn good price.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## markillo (May 16, 2013)

The car runs perfect with giac, before that the car at 5k rpm went in "safe mode".

Theres no dyno around here, but im really satisfied with the f23t.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

markillo said:


> The car runs perfect with giac, before that the car at 5k rpm went in "safe mode".
> 
> Theres no dyno around here, but im really satisfied with the f23t.


What giac tune are you running?


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## markillo (May 16, 2013)

xtravbx said:


> What giac tune are you running?


stage 1, i just have the CAI and the franken turbo!!!


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

The whole intake thing also depends on placement of the MAF in relation tot he bend going into the turbo. This was a HUGE arguing factor years ago when the FSI first came out. You can look at the early intakes and see the MAF about 4"+ closer to the bend than the more recent intakes. This was a whole turbulence effect that the air being sucked into the turbo around that bend would make.

TONS of tuners had an issue with the early intakes(P-Flo in particular) due to how close the MAF was and the incorrect readings that were being seen. But each car is different because no 2 cars operate exactly the same. The hardware is usually a tad different from car to car and the ECMs adapt differently to your driving styles. 

I for one have had the original P-Flo(MAF right by bend at turbo) since I bought my car back in 2007. Been through all stages of REVO and now on K04 file with no misfires related to the intake. It now has had DV relocate blowing air recirculated from DV back in right after MAF for 3 years as well. Not saying your intake is not the issue because it has been proven to be time and time again. But a lot of the issue lies in the parameters of the software. You need to speak with them and see what their test car was running for the tune development. That's what they tweak their tunes off of, so if you want top performance, that's what you should be running. For example, I know APR tunes all their FSI cars to run off of the stock air box and Carbonia filter/intake. And hardware compatibility is one thing they will stress when trying to diagnose issues going on with their tuned cars.
J. Hines

But definitely a strong tip/piece of advice to anyone doing this or just someone who wants peak performance out of their car. Clean your intake valves and get a feel for the job. Not that hard once you've done it. And it's crazy the difference. 4-5MPG increase at least and it feels like chipping you car all over again. It's something I do every 30-40K miles on top of all the other things I have done to prevent the buildup. I've got it to where it is VERY minimal after 40K miles. My main issue right now if the valve stem seals on #4 are starting to leak a little. So of course that makes things build up a little faster in that cylinder.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Switched to stock intake, had zero effect on misfires.

I created a 3rd gear WOT log file for Christ Tapp. He quickly made a V2 file that took care of all my top end issues.

We are now in the process of fine tuning the power band - but things are coming together!

Running very smooth with great power.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> Switched to stock intake, had zero effect on misfires.
> 
> I created a 3rd gear WOT log file for Christ Tapp. He quickly made a V2 file that took care of all my top end issues.
> 
> ...




Come on... dont be coy! More feedback on the power!


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

The power is a blast. I don't know if I think it feels like 350 at the wheels. But it's definitely over 300. It comes on smooth so traction isn't a problem really. I've only managed a few hard pulls since the v2 file. 

I will be flashing v3 soon. 

5th and 6th gear are still a little slow to me, tbh. 1-4th rev very quickly. I will report back more soon. 

But as it stands its making great power. I'd honesty like a little more.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> The power is a blast. I don't know if I think it feels like 350 at the wheels. But it's definitely over 300. It comes on smooth so traction isn't a problem really. I've only managed a few hard pulls since the v2 file.
> 
> I will be flashing v3 soon.
> 
> ...


As he continues to make changes it gets better


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> As he continues to make changes it gets better



Yeah we are definitely tuning it with via running 3rd gear logs.

Big props to Chris @ Eurodyne. His response and tuning remotely has been amazing today!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> Yeah we are definitely tuning it with via running 3rd gear logs.
> 
> Big props to Chris @ Eurodyne. His response and tuning remotely has been amazing today!


Dang... we so many companies offering great customer service its going to make it hard to pick software!

Glad the issues are working out!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Yeah we are definitely tuning it with via running 3rd gear logs.
> 
> Big props to Chris @ Eurodyne. His response and tuning remotely has been amazing today!


:thumbup:


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## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

What are people paying for the tunes? Are these custom or "off the shelf"?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

bryangb said:


> What are people paying for the tunes? Are these custom or "off the shelf"?


The only available tune that I'm aware of currently is Eurodyne. I purchase the Maestro suite. It's allowing me to fine tune remotely. I believe it's $800ish. 

Very powerful, steep learning curve. But I have gotten good support.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

xtravbx said:


> Switched to stock intake, had zero effect on misfires.
> 
> I created a 3rd gear WOT log file for Christ Tapp. He quickly made a V2 file that took care of all my top end issues.
> 
> ...


With no effect using the stock did you end up keeping it on or go back to the after market one?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I just put my p-flo back on this evening. I didn't record any runs with it - but it's running just fine using it. It definitely was not the cause of the poor running conditions - just like jhines assumed. 

For anyone that is getting the f23t and going the eurodyne route, I'm assuming the tune will be fairly updated and accurate due to Chris and Doug changing it up with my logs.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

What was your spark plug gap set to?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

I've been running OEM plugs set at 0.024" for 3+ years now since going K04. Use factory FSI black coils. Have tried the R8 reds as well, but see no difference. Haven't had an issue since dropping gaps. Before dropping, I would get misfires up top in the RPM range when at WOT(26PSI). I was also burning through factory-gapped plugs every 10-12K miles. Since changing, I still change my plugs every 30K or so, but they don't give me any issues when they're in there. I just do it to keep them fresh and MPG at it's peak. I still get 34-36MPG on highway trips cruising at 75-80MPH even with K04 and heavy RS4 injectors and tune. :laugh:
J. Hines


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## DroppinTheSasquatch (Oct 5, 2003)

Ok so to be honest I have read through this entire thread and still am a bit on the fence of going with this vs. a K04.

My K03 wastegate is dead and since I have to pull the turbo anyways I would rather upgrade.

It is my understanding that to be successful with a f23 I would need;

APR Pump
Downpipe
F23 / Hardware for install
Eurodyne Mastero
No injectors.....

Am I also correct in assuming I can run this with my APR Stage 1 set in stock mode with no fuel pump and have a well functioning car?

:thumbup:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

DroppinTheSasquatch said:


> Ok so to be honest I have read through this entire thread and still am a bit on the fence of going with this vs. a K04.
> 
> My K03 wastegate is dead and since I have to pull the turbo anyways I would rather upgrade.
> 
> ...



You don't need the APR pump. Just an upgraded pump. Like autotech/KMD. 

You should also run a larger intercooler.

What you are saving by going this route is injector cost, and installation. 

Also the cost of the turbo is less.

But definitely do research and decide what fits your budget and what you would like.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

DroppinTheSasquatch said:


> Ok so to be honest I have read through this entire thread and still am a bit on the fence of going with this vs. a K04.
> 
> My K03 wastegate is dead and since I have to pull the turbo anyways I would rather upgrade.
> 
> ...


If you're just running STG 1 tune, then you can just buy the turbo and install kit. But you'll have a tough time setting your wastegate up EXACTLY like it needs to be to make the mapped APR software happy. But it will not be performing to the potential the turbo has. Spool will be lacking compared to the tiny K03 your software is designed for. Although the top end will probably feel like it's a lot more powerful. The Eurodyne software will allow for some fine tuning of the setup to make it what you want it to be and perform to the limits you want. So I would recommend at least going with turbo and software, but you'll be out the costs of you APR flash. And I'm assuming the Eurodyne requires you to use a 3" high-flow downpipe? The factory will bolt up and I know they make K04 files for stock downpipes for states that have issues with sniff-testing the race cats. 

J. Hines


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## DroppinTheSasquatch (Oct 5, 2003)

jhines_06gli said:


> If you're just running STG 1 tune, then you can just buy the turbo and install kit. But you'll have a tough time setting your wastegate up EXACTLY like it needs to be to make the mapped APR software happy. But it will not be performing to the potential the turbo has. Spool will be lacking compared to the tiny K03 your software is designed for. Although the top end will probably feel like it's a lot more powerful. The Eurodyne software will allow for some fine tuning of the setup to make it what you want it to be and perform to the limits you want. So I would recommend at least going with turbo and software, but you'll be out the costs of you APR flash. And I'm assuming the Eurodyne requires you to use a 3" high-flow downpipe? The factory will bolt up and I know they make K04 files for stock downpipes for states that have issues with sniff-testing the race cats.
> 
> J. Hines


Thanks for the info guys I really appreciate it:thumbup:, I am leaning heavy towards the F23 right now after reading that.

One more thing;

I am assuming with the F23 I can use all my stock piping and no longer need DV relocations, or S3 IC pipes as the stock piping will bolt up (using a GolfR IC right now)?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

DroppinTheSasquatch said:


> Thanks for the info guys I really appreciate it:thumbup:, I am leaning heavy towards the F23 right now after reading that.
> 
> One more thing;
> 
> I am assuming with the F23 I can use all my stock piping and no longer need DV relocations, or S3 IC pipes as the stock piping will bolt up (using a GolfR IC right now)?



Correct.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Give Doug from FT a call. Super nice and knowledgable. I was planning on just pickin up the turbo for now and running it with exactly what you see in my signature and a manual boost control. 

This turbo setup was designed for a stock replacement setup, just like the situation you are in. 

He will tell you exactly what you need to do. 

If I had the money, I would have absolutely given him my business, then built on to it with a hpfp, ic, and new tune later. He said that's how it was designed.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> It's almost a certainty your car will misfire up top on the P-Flo. Dust off that stock airbox; you'll be making use of it.


Are there any aftermarket intakes that will work properly with your tune?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

GTI2Slow said:


> Are there any aftermarket intakes that will work properly with your tune?


I put my p-flo back on, because i hate the stock intake box/engine cover.

I told Doug I was going to do it against his warning. I'm running fine w/ no misfires. Tho I understand if I appear to have any issues, I will swap back to the stock box first before complaining.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> I put my p-flo back on...Tho I understand if I appear to have any issues, I will swap back to the stock box first before complaining.


Hehe. Funny.

I am puzzled about why it works ok on your car but is a problem on others. Is there more than one TYPE of P-Flo?

Also, as to questions about "will it be ok with...", remember this turbo is intended as a REPAIR PART. So it is designed to install with minimal fuss or alteration and can be configured for lower power when running less-than-ideal mods/software. Just be diligent about these five words:

Manual boost controller in parallel.​
Install that and you have a ton of protection for the car, and control for the fun.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I think I did read recently that there were some early p-flos that had the maf in a different location. 

I believe jhines was talking about it.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Yay all kinds of exciting things happened today. Got my timing in alignment. Ditched the gay ass forge twintercooler. Realized when I took it off that the outlet side silicone hosing was squished RIGHT up against my snow w/m pump. This had two effects. One, crimping the hose to about half its normal size, and two, crimping one of the w/m tubes coming straight out of the pump. I cannot believe the ignorance of whomever installed the intercooler.

Also when you connect your silicone turbo outlet adapter, make sure the t-bolt clamp isn't rubbing your axle. I will neither admin nor deny this happened to me, but if it does it will sure cause a lot of grinding and vibration. Just an observation. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

what's your take on our new-fangled 90˚*adapter hose?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

I can comment on the 90* turbo outlet hose. It pretty much does the trick. The most important thing is to start slow and trim only .5 to 1" at a time. I think I had to take about 3 or 4 inches off the side that goes to the lower discharge pipe, and probably about the same off of the turbo side as well. In the end, 90* isn't exaclty right, but if you're careful and take your time if will make a perfect fit.

And oh my goodness... the car feels FAST again. I've been at 2+ for about a year now, and it was feeling somewhat NORMAL. But now, wow. I can definitely feel it pulling timing somewhere above 4500RPM, so I'm going through some huge data logs to see what's going on and if I can apply any changes that maestro might recommend.

The install was pretty great. The turbo went in fast, and has been waiting there helplessly for about a week as I waited for other incidental parts to trickle in. 

No leaks (yay) to speak of, except there is one coolant leak that is very slow (1 or 2 drops per minute). I believe this is coming from one of the bolts that was in the CHRA from delivery (i.e. not a banjo bolt, but one of the other hex head bolts).

That being said, make sure all the hardware that COMES on the turbo is nice and snug before you do your install. I've got a PITA piece of hardware to get to now, and I might have to take down the axel if I want to get to it (unless I want to take out the turbo again... let me think about this one...)

It sounds and feels like a totally different car. If I might add -- it feels/sounds like the turbo has a lot of personality. I think once you guys get yours installed and make a few solid runs you'll get where I'm coming from. Not 100% on how much boost I'm pushing at the moment, but my gauge is pegged out at 25PSI *lol* Guess it's time for a new boost gauge.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> what's your take on our new-fangled 90˚*adapter hose?


Funny thing Doug....that was last on my list of priorities today, unfortunately. That and I cant find my mail key, lol. Ill let you know tomorrow, and acompany it w/ some logs.

Majic- thats awesome to hear. I cannot wait to run a file w some boost duty. Slow and steady though..


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Funny thing Doug....that was last on my list of priorities today, unfortunately. That and I cant find my mail key, lol. Ill let you know tomorrow, and acompany it w/ some logs.
> 
> Majic- thats awesome to hear. I cannot wait to run a file w some boost duty. Slow and steady though..


I guess I skipped the whole "run the new turbo with stage 2 equivalent software"
Step haha. I'm getting a peak flow of 262, so I believe I can flow a little more... But pressingly, I think I need more fuel on the top end (serious timing pull).

I'll keep you guys posted


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> I guess I skipped the whole "run the new turbo with stage 2 equivalent software"
> Step haha. I'm getting a peak flow of 262, so I believe I can flow a little more... But pressingly, I think I need more fuel on the top end (serious timing pull).
> 
> I'll keep you guys posted


275-280 sounds just about right..


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

majic said:


> Not 100% on how much boost I'm pushing at the moment, but my gauge is pegged out at 25PSI *lol* Guess it's time for a new boost gauge.


Unless you have rods in your car, I would be careful running that much boost. If you are peaking 28-30lbs and holding 25 you may really have a chance of doing some damage over time. I could be wrong but that is a little too much for stock internals


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I agree. My end goal is to make a conservative amount of power. Somewhere around the 300tq 350hp range to the crank.

Doug doesnt look like the silicone is arriving until tomorrow.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Rub-ISH said:


> Unless you have rods in your car, I would be careful running that much boost. If you are peaking 28-30lbs and holding 25 you may really have a chance of doing some damage over time. I could be wrong but that is a little too much for stock internals


Help me understand... Wouldn't the detrimental factor be the amount of torque you're developing versus the amount of boost you're running? At the moment, I'm not flowing enough air quickly enough to suggest I'm developing too much torque. I've already pulled the timing back as well, because it was pulling some serious timing from knock.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> Help me understand... Wouldn't the detrimental factor be the amount of torque you're developing versus the amount of boost you're running?


You're right to think that boost per se isn't really the concern. It's airflow. But the former impacts the latter. And I definitely noted that your logs show some pretty snazzy airflows under 4000rpms. I think your low end is maxed out. But it'll be interesting to find a good balance between timing and boost at the upper end of the scale.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Just out of curiosity... Does anyone here have a wbo2, if so have you logged your EGT's or your afr?

Just wondering. Thinking about doing it myself to see what I can glean


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*logging of work-in-progress*

Over the last week or so, I've been exchanging emails with customers as they tune and datalog their new turbos. I thought I'd share some graphs from one of them (discreetly named "car A")











These graphs show a car that's solidly off to a good start on a stock-fuel injector file. Boost is being managed well by the software, airflows are steady. What's more the injectors' duty cycles are very good, offering a bit of headroom for added boost. How that added boost might hurt timing advance is something we'll watch for.

Thx


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Good looking stuff!


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I am really tempted to just buy a F23T but am waiting for the GIAC file.

I had planned to install a K04. I was not thrilled with the issues that people were reporting with APR's tune and was "on the fence" about running their software, GIAC seemed to have a good solution as well as a nearby dealer.

I am waiting for GIAC to drop their F23T tune so I can compare against their K04 tune.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Posted this to golfmkv forums, but gonna post it here too:

I'd like to get some more opinions on running water methanol w/ this turbo. Does anybody know if, using the Eurodyne tune, timing will be advanced automatically by the ECU?

Let's say that without w/m I have zero timing pull, which (I think) would indicate I'm using the most advanced timing the tune or ECU will allow. If I then add w/m injection to the mix, everything else equal, would I still be running the same timing advance? Would the ECU at this point advance timing even more, possibly putting me in the unsafe torque level zone?

I know in Maestro there's a map for maximum timing advance under load, which supposedly is never exceeded. This makes me think the ECU is not going to advance timing, even w/ water meth. Unless of course I'm getting timing pull.

Anybody care to add their 2 cents to this?


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## bokiNY (Nov 26, 2008)

GTI2Slow said:


> I am really tempted to just buy a F23T but am waiting for the GIAC file.
> 
> I had planned to install a K04. I was not thrilled with the issues that people were reporting with APR's tune and was "on the fence" about running their software, GIAC seemed to have a good solution as well as a nearby dealer.
> 
> I am waiting for GIAC to drop their F23T tune so I can compare against their K04 tune.


I'm not sure which problems you are talking about - I have a strong running k04 (awe kit) in my '09 tsi gli with apr software and not a single issue for almost a year now...love it! Can't wait to see a complete solution for this f23 turbo already so we could compare some numbers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

bokiNY said:


> I'm not sure which problems you are talking about - I have a strong running k04 (awe kit) in my '09 tsi gli with apr software and not a single issue for almost a year now...love it! Can't wait to see a complete solution for this f23 turbo already so we could compare some numbers.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


Misfires at higher RPM/load, dunno if the TSI has an issue.


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## bokiNY (Nov 26, 2008)

^Aaaaah, I keep thinking I'm in the tsi f23t thread...hate doing this on a cell phone...anyways...good luck with f23 all.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Posted this to golfmkv forums, but gonna post it here too:
> 
> I'd like to get some more opinions on running water methanol w/ this turbo. Does anybody know if, using the Eurodyne tune, timing will be advanced automatically by the ECU?
> 
> ...


Hey man -- from what I understand the car will not advance it past the requested advance in the timing tables. As long as those are safe values, it won't push it past them. It's the point at which the car will try to reach ideally, but will subtract from it when conditions are less than ideal (i.e. knock). 

If it detects knock, it will pull 1.5* I believe... and it will add .5 back after so many cycles of not detecting knock (it might not be .5 that it adds back, but that's what I recall). 

Hope that helps


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> Posted this to golfmkv forums, but gonna post it here too:
> 
> I'd like to get some more opinions on running water methanol w/ this turbo. Does anybody know if, using the Eurodyne tune, timing will be advanced automatically by the ECU?
> 
> ...


If you don't mind, that's the kind of undertaking I hope you'd allow my collaboration on. Dialing in the timing advance is not very straightforward and can be a real time suck if you are "learning on the job."


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## VRhooptie (Jul 24, 2009)

Ex Frankenturbo GTI owner here. Got an email from Doug asking me on an update on my setup ( installed more than a year ago) Told him about a silly diverter valve issue I had when I first installed the kit and offered me a new updated one for free. I don't have the car anymore as I moved on but It shows the great customer care Frankenturbo offers. Pretty awesome of them to do that and would not hesitate on doing another frankenturbo setup on my next VW :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

VRhooptie said:


> Ex Frankenturbo GTI owner here. Got an email from Doug asking me on an update on my setup ( installed more than a year ago) Told him about a silly diverter valve issue I had when I first installed the kit and offered me a new updated one for free. I don't have the car anymore as I moved on but It shows the great customer care Frankenturbo offers. Pretty awesome of them to do that and would not hesitate on doing another frankenturbo setup on my next VW :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


I've experienced the same great level of support as well from Doug. I'll be a repeat customer when I get a MK7 GTI 

Doug I'd love to collaborate to dial in timing advance and w/m.

I'll be sending you updated logs tomorrow. I actually kinda like the new boost curve. It comes on at 17psi and ends up around 22 at redline. No spike.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

A3 any updates on the .Dotuning?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I want to post a series of graphs that, on their face, don't seem so impressive. But what excites me about them is how they demonstrate that the F23T is completely adaptable to whatever driving style or car modification level. They're taken from the same car as those above, but with a modified file for more strict boost control. Here they are:











If you look at the boost duty map, you can see how the ECU is completely reining in the turbo, and the boost curve shows its response. Nice stuff. Maybe this isn't mind-blowing power on display here, but if you've got a stock intercooler, exhaust, fuel pump, you name it...with a good tune you can run an F23T


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Just looking at my boost gauge, that's almost exactly what my boost curve is looking like.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

fusionti said:


> A3 any updates on the .Dotuning?


Soon


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> Soon


Killing me guy, killing me.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

fusionti said:


> Killing me guy, killing me.


Just spoke to Doug about this, base map is underway. Some more logging and testing will necessary to refine it.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Does .do use maestro?

If so send me your file when its done


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Does .do use maestro?
> 
> If so send me your file when its done


lmao, Eurodyne is playskool next to the capabilities of .dotuning


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

Hey A3, notice much or any difference in your mpg?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> lmao, Eurodyne is playskool next to the capabilities of .dotuning


Sounds like I've gotta live w/ a playskool tune then. Sucks for me?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Sounds like I've gotta live w/ a playskool tune then. Sucks for me?


I would agree -- its not particularly helpful to scorn what some people have already invested a lot of money in because other people have decided to go a different direction.

While I think there are few who would disagree that a tuner who directly edits the factory maps has more capabilities, why not discuss what the more salient features are, or how it's benefitting you at the moment?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

TurboChrisB said:


> Hey A3, notice much or any difference in your mpg?


Better MPG's than my previous stage 2+ tune.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Sounds like I've gotta live w/ a playskool tune then. Sucks for me?


I didn't mean to come off as a dick, so sorry about that. I enjoy the Eurodyne software but I just want more.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> I would agree -- its not particularly helpful to scorn what some people have already invested a lot of money in because other people have decided to go a different direction.
> 
> While I think there are few who would disagree that a tuner who directly edits the factory maps has more capabilities, why not discuss what the more salient features are, or how it's benefitting you at the moment?


Like I said to the other member I didn't mean to come off like that. So here's why I'm switching over to .dotuning. I want to run a MAFLESS, Flapperless, OEM like drivability and Eurodyne doesn't offer that. I like the fact I can choose maps, run launch control, and that's the just tip of the iceberg.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> Like I said to the other member I didn't mean to come off like that. So here's why I'm switching over to .dotuning. I want to run a MAFLESS, Flapperless, OEM like drivability and Eurodyne doesn't offer that. I like the fact I can choose maps, run launch control, and that's the just tip of the iceberg.


From my perspective, I think A3's spirit is laudable. It was this willingness to experiment that drove him to put on his car one of the very first of these turbos. So I really look forward to seeing what he and .doTuning can do. And is it okay of me to challenge them to better me?











Oh yeah, I went there. It's on!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I like it... competition is rarely a bad thing.


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Better MPG's than my previous stage 2+ tune.


Perfect. Thanks!


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Yeah... That's my major complaint with my tune right now. I'm getting terrible gas mileage and without dyno testing I don't know what kind of performance I'm getting.

I can't really blame the software until I get a few things in place (replacing maf and o2 sensor then seeing where I stand). It would be unfortunate if I had to abandon eurodyne because I like the concept (and holy crap, 600 down the tube). But if I can't get better gas mileage I'll probably start talking to .Do as well.

A3performance, can you tell is what the tuning process involves? Iirc, you can share data logs and .Do will send you tunes via email, right?


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> From my perspective, I think A3's spirit is laudable. It was this willingness to experiment that drove him to put on his car one of the very first of these turbos. So I really look forward to seeing what he and .doTuning can do. And is it okay of me to challenge them to better me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A duel? Thine dare challengeth .Do? On behalf of .DoTuning, the challenge is accepted. 

LOL.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> A duel? Thine dare challengeth .Do? On behalf of .DoTuning, the challenge is accepted.
> 
> LOL.


This came to mind... although some of the youngsters wont reconize it.... lol


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> A duel? Thine dare challengeth .Do? On behalf of .DoTuning, the challenge is accepted.
> 
> LOL.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Can .dotuning do anything remotely? I'm a far ways away from them.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

All this talk about .dotuning. Thinking I'm gonna go this route. Definitely worth inquiring.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I've gotten quick response from them through email before. They can do remote tuning. You send your ecu.


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## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

This sentence is FALSE.



A3Performance said:


> I want to run a MAFLESS, Flapperless, OEM like drivability and Eurodyne doesn't offer that..


 With time, I have no issues tuning my personal daily driven GTI, Mrbikles gti and Jetta, Wolfsburg's FSI with those features(or lack of) using Maesrto. Its all in how the end user knowledge and ability to work with the software and hardware.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tmsracing37 said:


> This sentence is FALSE.
> 
> 
> 
> With time, I have no issues tuning my personal daily driven GTI, Mrbikles gti and Jetta, Wolfsburg's FSI with those features(or lack of) using Maesrto. Its all in how the end user knowledge and ability to work with the software and hardware.


Your'e right perhaps I should've rephrased that comment. I personally reached out to C. Tapp for information regarding it and assistance if needed upon the Flapperless set-up. Never got an answer, on top of that car has a weird adaptation issue at idle. Again reached out to him with zero support back, so i'm sorta done with dude!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

HAHAHA gotta love the non existant support from that guy. I wonder why he cares so little.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)




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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Okay -- I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm having serious adaptation issues as well. My LTFT's have been blowing up and maxing out (throws a cel after driving 2 or 3 times).

It's reading close to stoich on the actual lambda (usually .98 when 1 is requested)... But after 15 minutes of driving my LTFT is over 10% and my fuel economy has taken a dump.

Without access to the main fuel correction, or the equivalent for MED9, I feel like this issue might be impossible to resolve. I'm replacing my MAF and o2 sensor just to rule those out... I've also reverted to the stock intake. I'm pulling my hair out because I can only manage 27mpg at 65mph highway cruise, and I used to get 30+ from that.

I'm still holding out hope that this will get fixed. Is anyone else having these issues? If so, chime in so we can get a better understanding of the problem.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> Okay -- I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm having serious adaptation issues as well. My LTFT's have been blowing up and maxing out (throws a cel after driving 2 or 3 times).
> 
> It's reading close to stoich on the actual lambda (usually .98 when 1 is requested)... But after 15 minutes of driving my LTFT is over 10% and my fuel economy has taken a dump.
> 
> ...


The exact reason why my car is at FFE now getting it's valves cleaned, RFD and trying to figure out why the F*CK the car keeps doing that!!!!!!!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

It's been pressure tested, smoke tested, logged galore and can't figure out that idle adaptation gremlin throwing off the LTFT's pegged at 25%. I said the hell with it, clean valves and let's do .dotuning!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

OMMMMMMM.......where can I find LTFT data?

I can hit 33mpg mostly highway combined if I drive at about 65mph. I'd really love to check my fuel trims though. Is this something that gets reset after ecu clearing? Cause I just did a few days ago.

Oh and yay had my first misfire at high rpm. Boost spiked to like 28psi in 3rd gear. Time to adjust ****.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Sounds like the consensus is.....

Doug needs a new partner in crime :thumbup:














.dotuning












srs


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> OMMMMMMM.......where can I find LTFT data?
> 
> I can hit 33mpg mostly highway combined if I drive at about 65mph. I'd really love to check my fuel trims though. Is this something that gets reset after ecu clearing? Cause I just did a few days ago.
> 
> Oh and yay had my first misfire at high rpm. Boost spiked to like 28psi in 3rd gear. Time to adjust ****.


Block 32. If you clear your codes and drive a good 10-15 miles check the block out.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Sounds like the consensus is.....
> 
> Doug needs a new partner in crime :thumbup:
> 
> ...






Honestly this was my original choice but I can't complain Doug has been an outstanding dude and a gentleman. Once I get more info/feedback from the .dotuning base file i'll report back. I will most likely need some refining after once logs become available. Definitely, 1 step closer to a legit tune!


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

33mpg? Is that on instantaneous or average? And is that using the upgraded fuel pump file or just the 2+ file?

Okay, so pure dope has a Vw and we have Audi's. the ecu's should be identical... But is there something different about ours that's causing this problem?

If only we had more data points.

Btw, I got new valves last year, and I cleaned them this year... Still no dice on the Econ. I dunno what gives.

New O2 sensor going in tomorrow, and I'm dusting off my old wideband o2 stand alone unit to get an independent look at the afr


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> 33mpg? Is that on instantaneous or average? And is that using the upgraded fuel pump file or just the 2+ file?
> 
> Okay, so pure dope has a Vw and we have Audi's. the ecu's should be identical... But is there something different about ours that's causing this problem?
> 
> ...


I have somewhat of a feeling it's MAF related I dunno I get that gut feeling but then I again I have no evidence. While running .dotuning I will go Mafless, no more drama!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

so MAFless... I take it is tuned by a map? My concern is that I would like to use my snow water/meth kit that uses it signal from the MAF sensor (mostly for the cooling aspect). Is it possible to have the ECU ignore the hotwire signal from the MAF but let the snow controller pick it up?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> so MAFless... I take it is tuned by a map? My concern is that I would like to use my snow water/meth kit that uses it signal from the MAF sensor (mostly for the cooling aspect). Is it possible to have the ECU ignore the hotwire signal from the MAF but let the snow controller pick it up?


Email [email protected] he can definitely help you out


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Email [email protected] he can definitely help you out


I think I just sit back and watch some more. I'm a little timid of the f23t at this point as the tuning solutions dont seem stable.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> I'm a little timid of the f23t at this point as the tuning solutions dont seem stable.


I think that's a reasonable attitude. Remember, we're not simply tuning a new turbo. We're tuning a new turbo on a new fueling approach. So that's no small challenge. But it's the one I set out to tackle when planning the F23T. I want it associated with stock injectors. And I'm confident we're clearing away the obstacles.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Good to hear. I would still rather go f23t than a bt. Hope this gets figured out before I get impatient again.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Overall I am confident I can get my car running perfect running eurodyne.

Really it's just the steep learning curve of it that makes it easier to go w/ an OTS tune.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Even on my stock turbo I have out of spec ltft. -2 idle but 13 partial. Uni said it could just be the way my car adapted and since its only 3% outside of spec, not to worry about it. I don't know a out that though. I also used to get 33mpg only work route but now get 27. 

I don't get a code from it but it doesn't seem right. Love to see what happens when you change your maf. I have no leaks and spoke with Ross tech about it at one point. They were pretty convinced that it could be the maf wiring. Maybe a bad connection somewhere throwing off the signal since they had never heard of that sensor crapping out on our platform.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> Even on my stock turbo I have out of spec ltft. -2 idle but 13 partial. Uni said it could just be the way my car adapted and since its only 3% outside of spec, not to worry about it. I don't know a out that though. I also used to get 33mpg only work route but now get 27.
> 
> I don't get a code from it but it doesn't seem right. Love to see what happens when you change your maf. I have no leaks and spoke with Ross tech about it at one point. They were pretty convinced that it could be the maf wiring. Maybe a bad connection somewhere throwing off the signal since they had never heard of that sensor crapping out on our platform.


P-Flo's have been known to deviate readings, just saying


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I thought about that too but this happened Lon after my install.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Tutti57 said:


> I thought about that too but this happened Lon after my install.


13% is high but not 25% like i'm experiencing dumping fuel like a mad man while triggering a CEL.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

I'm thinking I might try disabling ltft to see if that fixes the problem (forcing open loop).


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah. You are doomed.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

My block 032 is -.8 & -6.6. Bad or good?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm sitting here comparing my Maestro file to xtravbx's. There are many differences, and I'm not understanding why. There is supposed to be one base file but for some reason we are getting different ones. Where are these even coming from? Is one from Chris Tapp and one from FFE? If so which one is better? 

-Maximum VE curve is different
-Boost Duty is different
-Boost PID is different. More so, the scale is even different. My millibar scale ends at 1000 and his ends at 1600.
-Optimum engine torque is different, so is the scale.
-Target filling is different

This kinda honestly scares me, because how do we know if these have even been tested?

On top of that I'm not comfortable enough to adjust ALL THOSE parameters on my own, so I have absolutely nothing to go on.

So much for base file...


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> My block 032 is -.8 & -6.6. Bad or good?


+/- 10 is supposed to be within range. Here is some info on it. 

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Fuel_Trim_Info


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> My block 032 is -.8 & -6.6. Bad or good?


Yeah, I'd prefer -6 to +20 any day...


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

So nobody is worried about different base files being distributed by Eurodyne?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> So nobody is worried about different base files being distributed by Eurodyne?


I am actually very concerned... I just don't know how really to help or respond.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

No one car will run the same, so the fact that there are different versions of the base file doesn't really shock me. 

If you guys go with Eurodyne expect that you need to have the $800 version to play around with the file to suit your setup and your climate. It may take sometime but it will need to be done. 

I however don't want to mess around with the fine tuning details so I'm holding out for .Dotuning.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I enjoy tuning the details and knowing I'm getting the most out of my personal setup. Just my 2 cents. 

Update - my F23T is running great. 0 misfires. Excellent power. Really enjoying the car. 

I've had excellent support from both Doug and Chris Tapp with tuning my ride. We've had some minor hiccups, and the base file was not ready for daily driving, but it was ironed out quickly and I'm very happy with everything as it stands. Would love to fine tune it on a dyno eventually!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I enjoy tuning the details and knowing I'm getting the most out of my personal setup. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Update - my F23T is running great. 0 misfires. Excellent power. Really enjoying the car.
> 
> I've had excellent support from both Doug and Chris Tapp with tuning my ride. We've had some minor hiccups, and the base file was not ready for daily driving, but it was ironed out quickly and I'm very happy with everything as it stands. Would love to fine tune it on a dyno eventually!


How are your fuel trims and how much air is your MAF seeing?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> I enjoy tuning the details and knowing I'm getting the most out of my personal setup. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Update - my F23T is running great. 0 misfires. Excellent power. Really enjoying the car.
> 
> I've had excellent support from both Doug and Chris Tapp with tuning my ride. We've had some minor hiccups, and the base file was not ready for daily driving, but it was ironed out quickly and I'm very happy with everything as it stands. Would love to fine tune it on a dyno eventually!


very nice to hear. You are restoring my faith.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> How are your fuel trims and how much air is your MAF seeing?


I can reply with my latest logs tomorrow!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> So nobody is worried about different base files being distributed by Eurodyne?


I wouldn't say worried. But it's puzzling. As I said to you via email, I suspect it's driven by hardware differences between different model-year FSI cars. As some of you might remember from earlier in the thread, I learned the hard way that maps from one customer aren't transplantable to another. So I think the discrepancies between customers' files are owing to the fundamental software differences among model years. This, I should emphasize, is just my newbie guess. But I'll bet I'm right.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I wouldn't say worried. But it's puzzling. As I said to you via email, I suspect it's driven by hardware differences between different model-year FSI cars. As some of you might remember from earlier in the thread, I learned the hard way that maps from one customer aren't transplantable to another. So I think the discrepancies between customers' files are owing to the fundamental software differences among model years. This, I should emphasize, is just my newbie guess. But I'll bet I'm right.


For the sake of scientific research Doug... why dont you send me a f23t so that we can get some documented feedback from a 2007 VW GTI. :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> How are your fuel trims and how much air is your MAF seeing?


Here is that car on a more aggressive boost map:











Fuel trims look very good. And considering the hot weather, everything else looks pretty good too.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> very nice to hear. You are restoring my faith.


I like xtravbx am having a very positive experience w/ the f23t hardware. My car is running better than ever and I can't say enough good things. I just have a few minor tweaks before I really dial in my boost.

I guess me questioning the software has to do with unknowns about how to work it, as well as exploring different tuning possibilities. A3 kinda sparked my interest talking about .dotuning. I don't mean to make it seem like Eurodyne sucks, but it's really hard to figure out, and then seeing different base files made me really question it. It's not like my is running like **** by any means on it.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> I like xtravbx am having a very positive experience w/ the f23t hardware. My car is running better than ever and I can't say enough good things. I just have a few minor tweaks before I really dial in my boost.
> 
> I guess me questioning the software has to do with unknowns about how to work it, as well as exploring different tuning possibilities. A3 kinda sparked my interest talking about .dotuning. I don't mean to make it seem like Eurodyne sucks, but it's really hard to figure out, and then seeing different base files made me really question it. It's not like my is running like **** by any means on it.


I would agree with this... The car is running great and is extremely strong. But I probably would have held off if I'd known that I was only going to be getting 27mpg on the interstate with the a/c off at 65mph. I hope that's not the case long-term.


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## TurboChrisB (Feb 25, 2012)

majic said:


> But I probably would have held off if I'd known that I was only going to be getting 27mpg on the interstate with the a/c off at 65mph.


Interesting statement....what were you getting before? I REALLY want to do this upgrade...but I bought this car for the combo of fun/mpg. My other rides ALL get about 15/20mpg. So I can't justify it bringing it down too much. How about around town? Notice much difference?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I get excellent mpg. 33 on the hwy with a/c. Sometimes down to 31.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I get good mpgs too.

As doug explained the ecu of bpy enngines can differ. This explains the differences in tune parameters. I also learned that boost pid table feeds into the boost duty table. Boost pid number goes through a lookup into the duty table.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Disclaimer: Here is me completely ****ing around. Just to see what I can do  This has nothing to do w/ Doug's tweaking of files. Neither is it any of his official data. I'm running a super conservative N75 here. But again just showing the capabilities of screwing w/ the Boost PID values.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

This obviously shows that I need to up my PID values to meet requested boost. I am confident I can reach a level that is good in all gears.

One question somebody may be able to answer. I'm in phoenix so it's 110f on a daily basis right now. Should I be shooting for the full 22.5psi, or should I dial it down a few psi? From what I understand, even an OTS tune will boost a few less in hot ass weather. Also when I had my boost dialed up to 23psi, I was seeing much less timing advance. Just a few degrees.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

A3, this is for you. Might explain why you want to go mafless....

It's ME7 stuff as you can see, but I dunno I figured it would show the complexity of this ****. Which is even more true on our ecu.



Cryser said:


> This is something I wrote down and theorized a few days ago while it was raining and I couldn't get data logs. It's helped me dial in my tunes better by helping put me in the "mind of the computer" so to speak, figured I'd post it up see if it helps anyone else.
> 
> *How ME7 takes your pedal input and uses it through the torque control set of maps*
> 
> ...


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Here's some gold quoted from user ericpaulyoung at audizine.com...

"Well, I just finished the eleventh revision since my final tune from RAI, and I got a smooth 21 psi boost curve with little to no overshoot in pretty much all driving conditions. To do it I took the tune Dan dialed in for me, and then brought the max VE down until it was within my MAP sensor range. Then shaped the boost curve and taper in max VE. This is great for full power WOT pulls, but driving around, if you jumped on it from about 3k, it would overboost because the K04 spins like beast. 

So to keep me from over boosting when launching from part throttle, I capped my boost duty map to override any PID requests for greater than 70%, with a flat profile from there down to 50, at which point the map is 1:1. This way if I jump on it and the PID registers a large delta and requests 95% duty, it only pulls up 70%, and I don't overshoot from there, yet the spool up is the same."

Apparently they say don't touch PID. What you should screw w/ is boost duty. Not exactly sure why, but these guys seem to know what they're talking about.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

PID has to do with how quickly the computer tries to compensate. If it gets mucked with too much it will continually wander because it can't arrive at a reasonable solution.

If you want more boost sooner, maybe look at target filling and optimal torque. If you shift the target filling table to the left the car will ask for more boost sooner... But it comes at the expense of potentially being peaky.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

TurboChrisB said:


> Interesting statement....what were you getting before? I REALLY want to do this upgrade...but I bought this car for the combo of fun/mpg. My other rides ALL get about 15/20mpg. So I can't justify it bringing it down too much. How about around town? Notice much difference?


Evidently my frustration is some form of transferenc because I don't know why my fuel economy has taken a dump, but it may not have anything to do with the software... All I know is my fuel trims are peaking out and I'm getting 25-27mpg where I used to get 30-32.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majic said:


> Evidently my frustration is some form of transferenc because I don't know why my fuel economy has taken a dump, but it may not have anything to do with the software... All I know is my fuel trims are peaking out and I'm getting 25-27mpg where I used to get 30-32.


Air leak? MAF going bad?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

I've also seen front 02 sensor and thermostat cause low MPG. Have any logs of stuff? And when you say fuel trims peg........go +25%?

I had a similar issue, but also had low boost and other issues to follow my low MPG. I was getting around 26-29MPG on highway. Ended up replacing a sh*t-ton of parts just because it was time by mileage and wear on the car. Ended up fixing it with one of the parts and now am getting 34-36MPG on highway if I'm not in boost all the time and use cruise. Beating the car, I still average around 30MPG per tank and it's about 1/2 highway cruising, 1/2 backroad beatings.
J. Hines


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Well as it stands, with assistance of Doug remotely, my car is dialed in at the moment.

The ambient temps are too high to ask for more boost safely, so 22-23 psi steady is plenty of power.

This car hauls. I let a couple of my friends drive it yesterday, and they were shocked at how it moves. They could not stop smiling every time they smashed the gas. It was a lot of fun. 

Makes a great daily driver, but SO EASY to get in trouble with it...


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> Well as it stands, with assistance of Doug remotely, my car is dialed in at the moment.
> 
> The ambient temps are too high to ask for more boost safely, so 22-23 psi steady is plenty of power.
> 
> ...


Will you remind us of the hardware and model of car you are running?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> Will you remind us of the hardware and model of car you are running?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


This is my 08 FSI

Stage 2 southbend
Fluidampr crank pulley
034 mounts
Golf R intercooler
Autotech fuel pump
42DD 3" downpipe w/ 200 cell cat
Neuspeed p-flo
BK7REIX gapped at .25 
R8 Coils
BSH PCV blockoff

I think that sums it for the most part?

And obviously the F23T on Eurodyne


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> This is my 08 FSI
> 
> Stage 2 southbend
> Fluidampr crank pulley
> ...


Awesome. I just think it might be useful for us to have a semi database of what people are running. 

I think we all owe a "thank you" to the early adopters of the f23t for all the hard work and headaches you guys have been going through. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Well as it stands, with assistance of Doug remotely, my car is dialed in at the moment.
> 
> The ambient temps are too high to ask for more boost safely, so 22-23 psi steady is plenty of power.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> I've also seen front 02 sensor and thermostat cause low MPG. Have any logs of stuff? And when you say fuel trims peg........go +25%?
> 
> I had a similar issue, but also had low boost and other issues to follow my low MPG. I was getting around 26-29MPG on highway. Ended up replacing a sh*t-ton of parts just because it was time by mileage and wear on the car. Ended up fixing it with one of the parts and now am getting 34-36MPG on highway if I'm not in boost all the time and use cruise. Beating the car, I still average around 30MPG per tank and it's about 1/2 highway cruising, 1/2 backroad beatings.
> J. Hines


Jhines, I think I might need to have a dialogue with you about the parts shakedown that I'm going through. 

So far I replaced the o2 sensor and MAF. Fuel trims do make it to 25 and then I get a cel. My next step is gong to be messing with the plugs. There is anecdotal evidence that poorly gapped plugs can hit you in the fuel department.

Here's a posting for one persons experience: http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=19749928

I have a catch can... New dv and n75 with the turbo. New seals pretty much all around.

Ideas??


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

majic said:


> Jhines, I think I might need to have a dialogue with you about the parts shakedown that I'm going through.
> 
> So far I replaced the o2 sensor and MAF. Fuel trims do make it to 25 and then I get a cel. My next step is gong to be messing with the plugs. There is anecdotal evidence that poorly gapped plugs can hit you in the fuel department.
> 
> ...


As far as plugs go, run a set of OE plugs gapped down to .024" and see where that lands you. What year is your car and mileage? I've had a bad throttle body cause the fuel trims at idle(MVB 32, field 1) to go to +25%. I've actually broke 2 throttle plates and had another throttle body just go bad. But haven't had issues out of one in the past 18 months or so. 

On the catchcan subject, did you just install it? Brand? Atmosphere or recirc.? And when you look at MVB 32, what's both your STFT and LTFT values?
J. Hines


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> As far as plugs go, run a set of OE plugs gapped down to .024" and see where that lands you. What year is your car and mileage? I've had a bad throttle body cause the fuel trims at idle(MVB 32, field 1) to go to +25%. I've actually broke 2 throttle plates and had another throttle body just go bad. But haven't had issues out of one in the past 18 months or so.
> 
> On the catchcan subject, did you just install it? Brand? Atmosphere or recirc.? And when you look at MVB 32, what's both your STFT and LTFT values?
> J. Hines


Thanks for the quick response. I installed the catch can. It's a 42dd and it's not a vent to atmosphere type setup (it's routed back to the hose that goes through the valve cover gasket and goes into the turbo). 

The stft is typically okay (within spec at least) and the ltft is the one that blows up. It will be fine for a short time, but then it cranks up to 14 within 10-15 minutes of driving... And within 2 or 3 drives it will go to 19.9, and then a cel shortly after.

I am going to pressure test it as soon as possible. I'm going to test from the mouth of the intake to role out intake leaks.

Ltft goes sour on stock intake or aftermarket intake (tried going back to stock already).

When I was reading about the plugs, it makes sense how that could hurt you. If your plugs are causing timing pull, one would be making suboptimal torque, and the car is going to open the throttle just a little more to compensate. Don't know what that has to do with fueling, though. My AFR's are pretty close to requested (they do trend on the rich side... ~.98 at cruise).

When I had the intake off recently the throttle was grossly in tact. 

Could poor injector sealing cause this (I didn't replace the Teflon seal on the injectors when they came out with the manifold). If that is the case, would a trickle down test detect injector seal leaking?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

majic said:


> Thanks for the quick response. I installed the catch can. It's a 42dd and it's not a vent to atmosphere type setup (it's routed back to the hose that goes through the valve cover gasket and goes into the turbo).
> 
> The stft is typically okay (within spec at least) and the ltft is the one that blows up. It will be fine for a short time, but then it cranks up to 14 within 10-15 minutes of driving... And within 2 or 3 drives it will go to 19.9, and then a cel shortly after.
> 
> ...


The injectors could definitely cause an issue. Not sure it'll cause fuel trims to go that far out, but should always be replaced. The off-idle trims indicates a leak somewhere after the MAF in the intake stream. So I would think either you have an issue with the intercooler/piping somewhere or the intake seals/injector seals. Are you getting boost levels and holding them? 

Or you are indeed just leaning out because of your tune and how it is set up.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> The injectors could definitely cause an issue. Not sure it'll cause fuel trims to go that far out, but should always be replaced. The off-idle trims indicates a leak somewhere after the MAF in the intake stream. So I would think either you have an issue with the intercooler/piping somewhere or the intake seals/injector seals. Are you getting boost levels and holding them?
> 
> Or you are indeed just leaning out because of your tune and how it is set up.


Vac is 18 or 19 at idle, and it holds good boost. 

And that's the thing, there's no evidence of leanness happening. I look at my logs and its only reporting AFR on target (slightly rich). Could I email you a few to look at?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

majic said:


> Vac is 18 or 19 at idle, and it holds good boost.
> 
> And that's the thing, there's no evidence of leanness happening. I look at my logs and its only reporting AFR on target (slightly rich). Could I email you a few to look at?


Very strange. What's the exact fault code you get? Also, go into basic settings 107 and run that test. See what it does....pass/fail and what the % is. 

If you're holding boost and have 18/19 "Hg, then you shouldn't have a boost leak or big intake leak. What air filter are you running on the car? 

And all this came up as soon as you did FrankenTurbo? Or something else?
J. Hines


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Do you have a log of the lamda/AFR ratio? Are you able to scale it all? 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (May 30, 2013)

*FV-QR*

Just drove xtravbx's car since its been dialed in. 
Wow, it runs great! Thoroughly impressed with it.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Just drove xtravbx's car since its been dialed in.
> Wow, it runs great! Thoroughly impressed with it.


:thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Thumbs up braj


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> Very strange. What's the exact fault code you get? Also, go into basic settings 107 and run that test. See what it does....pass/fail and what the % is.
> 
> If you're holding boost and have 18/19 "Hg, then you shouldn't have a boost leak or big intake leak. What air filter are you running on the car?
> 
> ...


Poor gas milage was evident after I installed the new turbo. I've always had issues with the AC hitting my fuel economy hard (I get ~28mpg with it on, typically). 

I have both the stock intake with the carbono intake (k&n panel filter inside), and I have a CTS turbo intake. Both cause the fuel trim to blow up.

The specific error I get are "too lean at off idle" I believe, I'll double check whenever I get it next time.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Oh, sorry, and... it's a 2006 Audi A3 with about 110k on the clock. Head was rebuilt last summer courtesy of APR, and at that time they said I had excellent compression on their leakdown test.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

Looking into your logs you sent me. But the only time I've seen lean off idle faults was on my buddy's GTI. Both times, was his car...lol. First occurrence was as soon as he installed the EuroJet catchcan. Was the ammo box thing they came out with. He was one of the beta testers for it and MIL came on as soon as he installed it and started driving. Too lean off idle. It was caused by the little groove they cut in the back of the plate that goes on the valve cover. It was allowing excess air to bypass the PCv stuff and get back in post-MAF. Solved that with a new BSH setup.

Second time was totally on him...lol. But kicked my a$$ for at least 4-6 hours of logging and screwing around with stuff. He had a Neuspeed intake installed on the car. And during his tune-up, he cleaned the filter and charged it with K&N kit. Well that Neuspeed filter cannot be done like that. So essentially, he clear-coated his filter by adding a coating to the outside of it. Was not allowing enough air to pass through under boost, but was fine at idle. I must say that is the stupidest I had felt in a while once I finally figured it out. 

But I'm just brain-storming with you. See if we can rule something pointless and dumb out. The logs look like the requested/actual stuff is on par. But haven't graphed them out yet. Just glanced through briefly.
J. Hines


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> Looking into your logs you sent me. But the only time I've seen lean off idle faults was on my buddy's GTI. Both times, was his car...lol. First occurrence was as soon as he installed the EuroJet catchcan. Was the ammo box thing they came out with. He was one of the beta testers for it and MIL came on as soon as he installed it and started driving. Too lean off idle. It was caused by the little groove they cut in the back of the plate that goes on the valve cover. It was allowing excess air to bypass the PCv stuff and get back in post-MAF. Solved that with a new BSH setup.
> 
> Second time was totally on him...lol. But kicked my a$$ for at least 4-6 hours of logging and screwing around with stuff. He had a Neuspeed intake installed on the car. And during his tune-up, he cleaned the filter and charged it with K&N kit. Well that Neuspeed filter cannot be done like that. So essentially, he clear-coated his filter by adding a coating to the outside of it. Was not allowing enough air to pass through under boost, but was fine at idle. I must say that is the stupidest I had felt in a while once I finally figured it out.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the thoughts, brother. One thing I can look into is getting a new pcv gasket. Also will look at securing all the pcv components... Hoses and whatnot. 

Meanwhile I'm going to try some copper plugs appropriately gapped. We'll figure this out haha


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Check w/ your dealer. I got a new pcv valve w/ gasket and rear breather tube for free.


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## bokiNY (Nov 26, 2008)

I'd also take the catch can out and return to stock just to cross that out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

bokiNY said:


> I'd also take the catch can out and return to stock just to cross that out.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


That's not a bad idea. When I pressurized the system, there were a few leaks. Most evident was one coming from the maf sensor itself. Air was able to leak around it. I put some rtv around it so hopefully it will minimize that. Also, a slight hissing at the catch can. I might need to take it apart and seal it with rtv as well. Granted, both these are subject to vacuum only because they're pre-turbo... But both are post-maf and could be introducing unmetered air. I have half the mind to just block off the PCV at the turbo inlet and vent it to atmosphere.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

bokiNY said:


> I'd also take the catch can out and return to stock just to cross that out.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2


I had added a catch can setup to my list of mods but after consistently research the benefits and cons of having one I decided to scratch it off the list. The benefits are minimal to the cons and not worth the $100 (used/ebay) to $300+ for a brand name setup. 

I did come across an alternative, worth about


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> I had added a catch can setup to my list of mods but after consistently research the benefits and cons of having one I decided to scratch it off the list. The benefits are minimal to the cons and not worth the $100 (used/ebay) to $300+ for a brand name setup.
> 
> I did come across an alternative, worth about


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

I like the idea of a flapper delete... I'm going to work on getting the PCV to atmosphere first. Ill leave the catch can to help my conscience and to prevent water from potentially back flowing, but its just more headache than its worth, it seems.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

majic said:


> I like the idea of a flapper delete... I'm going to work on getting the PCV to atmosphere first. Ill leave the catch can to help my conscience and to prevent water from potentially back flowing, but its just more headache than its worth, it seems.


Yea.....it's crazy because the recirc. catchcan cars I work on don't even catch that much stuff. In the Summer and higher heats days, they go 2-3 oil changes and don't fill up the cans. In winter, maybe empty it every 2 oil changes and still not full. My VTA setup has to be emptied evry 2K miles in Summer and I check it weekly in Winter. It catches soooo much fuel and oil vapor it isn't even funny. I can pour the stuff out on a piece of metal and let it sit for a few days and some of the water will evaporate off. Then there is a nasty film left on that piece of metal. So add that to an engine that is being heat-cyled constantly and I'm sure it's a VERY good thing that I have all that junk being caught and not going back into the engine!! 

I do sooo many intake cleanings and injectors for carbon and failures it isn't even funny. Yet on my FSI, it has 195000 miles and has not had a single injector failure, carbon is cleaned every 40K and isn't even that bad when I clean it and there is not a single molecule of oil in my charge piping. Everyone else always asks why there is oil around their couplers and DV. It's the PCV system. I pull my intercooler piping and if it's been really humid, there is actually usually a little condensation in the piping from the heat exchange, but never a single drop of oil since going with my catchcan. :beer:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Jhines, where in NC are you? I need to be your friend. Lol.

I'm running almost 107k miles and I'm pretty sure I'm the first one to open even just the valve cover since assembly at the factory. Valley VW charges $250 for valve cleaning but I'm unsure of their process and if its just a squeeze of BG through the IAT or if they pull the intake manifold and scrub. I thinking not for $250. Prolly just utilize the BG apparatus. 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Now ask Josh what his engine bay looks like with a VTA catch can.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

SmithersSP said:


> Now ask Josh what his engine bay looks like with a VTA catch can.


Only a little oil on stuff. Main thing was just the coolant bottle is colored now. But it's worth the outcome. Charcoal pollen filters and a little degreaser from time to time on the engine rails. And I have a self-lubricating serpentine belt setup now too.....can't forget the positives. :laugh:


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> Jhines, where in NC are you? I need to be your friend. Lol.
> 
> I'm running almost 107k miles and I'm pretty sure I'm the first one to open even just the valve cover since assembly at the factory. Valley VW charges $250 for valve cleaning but I'm unsure of their process and if its just a squeeze of BG through the IAT or if they pull the intake manifold and scrub. I thinking not for $250. Prolly just utilize the BG apparatus.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


I'm in Wesley Chapel.....little tiny town of rich folks(I don't fit in) just East of Charlotte about 15 minutes. Where are you? Have to get up some time.......we have quite a few cars in our club and I try my best to keep all the FSIs running. It's hard though.....we have lost a few along the way, but that's life I guess


----------



## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

jhines_06gli said:


> Yea.....it's crazy because the recirc. catchcan cars I work on don't even catch that much stuff. In the Summer and higher heats days, they go 2-3 oil changes and don't fill up the cans. In winter, maybe empty it every 2 oil changes and still not full. My VTA setup has to be emptied evry 2K miles in Summer and I check it weekly in Winter. It catches soooo much fuel and oil vapor it isn't even funny. I can pour the stuff out on a piece of metal and let it sit for a few days and some of the water will evaporate off. Then there is a nasty film left on that piece of metal. So add that to an engine that is being heat-cyled constantly and I'm sure it's a VERY good thing that I have all that junk being caught and not going back into the engine!!
> 
> I do sooo many intake cleanings and injectors for carbon and failures it isn't even funny. Yet on my FSI, it has 195000 miles and has not had a single injector failure, carbon is cleaned every 40K and isn't even that bad when I clean it and there is not a single molecule of oil in my charge piping. Everyone else always asks why there is oil around their couplers and DV. It's the PCV system. I pull my intercooler piping and if it's been really humid, there is actually usually a little condensation in the piping from the heat exchange, but never a single drop of oil since going with my catchcan. :beer:


Are there any preferred turbo inlet block-off plates for the pcv system?

Also, do you have to use the special tool to replace the Teflon seal on the injector? I was thinking I'd heat them in some boiling water to make them expand, let them cool, and then install them by hand to avoid using the taper tool.

Recommendations?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> Are there any preferred turbo inlet block-off plates for the pcv system?


RAI Motorsport has fabricated a run of block-off plates for inclusion in the kits going to TSI owners. If there's enough requests for it from you FSI guys, we'd include one to you as well.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

majic said:


> Are there any preferred turbo inlet block-off plates for the pcv system?
> 
> Also, do you have to use the special tool to replace the Teflon seal on the injector? I was thinking I'd heat them in some boiling water to make them expand, let them cool, and then install them by hand to avoid using the taper tool.
> 
> Recommendations?


I made my own......old PCV tube and just weld a small piece of aluminum inside it. But I know IE was making them at one time.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

IE still makes them and I believe HPA is using them too. I personally am going back to stock PCV and getting rid of the catch can. It'll be up for sale soon, PM if interested.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> IE still makes them and I believe HPA is using them too. I personally am going back to stock PCV and getting rid of the catch can. It'll be up for sale soon, PM if interested.


We think very alike


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

How about just running the basic bsh pcv block off plate?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Tutti57 said:


> How about just running the basic bsh pcv block off plate?


That's what I run - strictly to minimize places for air leaks. Works great.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> RAI Motorsport has fabricated a run of block-off plates for inclusion in the kits going to TSI owners. If there's enough requests for it from you FSI guys, we'd include one to you as well.


That would be amazing if this could happen for fsi owners!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

majic said:


> That would be amazing if this could happen for fsi owners!


Why do we need to remove rear pcv?

Whats the benefit?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Why do we need to remove rear pcv?
> 
> Whats the benefit?


Less complexity, it eliminates the possibility of unmetered air getting in... And... No more fowled up intake valves!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Quick update, drove the car back from FFE. The car has squeaky cleaned valves, CTS RFD and now running .dotuning's Mafless tune. It's currently a base map and will require some minor refinement. Damn does thing pull! The car feels almost night and day from Eurodyne's software. I'm pretty sure it's due to a slightly aggressive timing, that'll be addressed via a refinement. My LTFT's are at -8 % which is way better than the 25% plus a CEL.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> Quick update, drove the car back from FFE. The car has squeaky cleaned valves, CTS RFD and now running .dotuning's Mafless tune. It's currently a base map and will require some minor refinement. Damn does thing pull! The car feels almost night and day from Eurodyne's software. I'm pretty sure it's due to a slightly aggressive timing, that'll be addressed via a refinement. My LTFT's are at -8 % which is way better than the 25% plus a CEL.


Sick!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

How do you know tq is safe? Did they dyno?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> How do you know tq is safe? Did they dyno?


New, and potentially interesting, information... I went ahead and unplugged the EVAP valve (electrical connector) to prevent it from cycling the EVAP into the intake manifold... 

Maybe not surprisingly... my fuel econ jumped back up. I'm back to the ~30mpg mark after a 30 minute drive at 65mph (modest acceleration and a few tumbling hills). 

I read that if the EVAP system is unplugged, it disables the LTFT. I also put copper plugs in and gapped them to .024. I'm not 100% sure, but it feels like it's pulling less timing on the WOT 3rd gear run, but I'll have to consult a data log to be certain. I'm obviously happy about this discovery... but now introduces the new question as to the importance of this finding. My fund of knowledge is shallowing out in this area, so suggestions are welcome.

Super glad to hear that your car is looking good A3Perf... I may consult .Do in the near future as well.

Next step will be to vent the PCV to atmosphere. I'm not a total bastard, I'll just leave the catch can in place, but vent the post catch-can fumes under the body somewhere. I'm not particularly inspired to cut into my DP because and try to vent into it as it's an APR and I'd rather not void the warranty or resale value by cutting holes into a perfectly good DP. 

For those curious, my lambdas are still rock solid after disabling the EVAP... curiouser and curiouser...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Did you remove the evap canister ?? What did you disconnect??

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Disconnected the combivalve electrical connector that allows the EVAP into the intake mani


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

That is interesting and maybe worth starting a new thread over. I have a hacked up eBay pipe and wouldn't be against trying something with it.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Tutti57 said:


> That is interesting and maybe worth starting a new thread over. I have a hacked up eBay pipe and wouldn't be against trying something with it.


Sorry -- you're right, I should keep this on F23T discussion. * On that note*, I had really good power last night! I'm going to run some logs with the new copper plugs I purchased and let you know what my timing numbers look like tonight :thumbup:


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Tutti57 said:


> That is interesting and maybe worth starting a new thread over. I have a hacked up eBay pipe and wouldn't be against trying something with it.


That's cool. Still good info!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Does anybody in the country have temperatures cool enough to even log right now? Here in the NY area it was a nice round number of 100˚F yesterday. Worthless for data collection.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Does anybody in the country have temperatures cool enough to even log right now? Here in the NY area it was a nice round number of 100˚F yesterday. Worthless for data collection.


I can force it to with w/m!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Does anybody in the country have temperatures cool enough to even log right now? Here in the NY area it was a nice round number of 100˚F yesterday. Worthless for data collection.


tell me about it..


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

I would if I had the setup installed, but looking like next week just maybe it's going to get done.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

The only good data this weather can provide is FMIC efficiency :laugh: :


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

I was seeing IAT of 51 degrees C. on my way back from FFE yesterday!


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

The F23T powered GTI has been parked since the heat wave.

Edit - I also have been parked since the heat wave. This post brought to you by: Video games and MD 20/20.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> the f23t powered gti has been parked since the heat wave.
> 
> Edit - i also have been parked since the heat wave. This post brought to you by: Video games and md 20/20.


md 20/20 ?? Yuck


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Log at night where temps can be as low as 70-80 degress

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> md 20/20 ?? Yuck


So foul, it's almost vulgar.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> So foul, it's almost vulgar.


I bet my w/m system could run off it... Lol.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> I bet my w/m system could run off it... Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


I'm certain of it !


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Any word on GIAC's tune?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> Any word on GIAC's tune?


Go .dotuning, you won't regret it.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I'm waiting to see what GIAC offers first. To be honest I really dont want the hassle of being a first adopter and I have patience.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> I'm waiting to see what GIAC offers first. To be honest I really dont want the hassle of being a first adopter and I have patience.


Patience is a virtue.. I get it, I had no problem being an early adopter. Felt confident to tackle any issues along the way. So far, I can be real honest the .dotuning file i'm running which is in it's first revision beta is phenomenal. I just finished wrapping up another round of logs and will be forwarding them to .dotuning. Let's see where this goes, so far it has been an amazing experience. :wave:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> I just finished wrapping up another round of logs and will be forwarding them to .dotuning.


So what am I over here? Chopped liver?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm also in the boat of waiting for giac... not saying I wouldn't consider using dotuning or eurodyne I just want the most stable hassle free tune that makes good power. I want to open a box, pull my car in the garage, install the turbo, flash a tune, and peel out. When that solution is ready... my credit card is ready too. I love the concept of the turbo and I would not even oppose paying a bit more for it if would improve the consistency of it. 

Now that I got traction under control... I really have an itch to make it an issue again. Its a vicous circle.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Well I don't consider myself an early adopter since several people are up and running even though I ordered mine (and shipped BTW).
With all the various k04 tuning complaints (& no not just APR) the last thing I want to do is wait for a flash and forget it tune and end up not happy. This is not like a k03 where every tuner pushes the turbo for all is worth, there are things to do. I plan to add S3 injectors, I might one day throw in rods or even a bigger turbo. I am tickled pink that if there is something amiss about my tune I (Or actually somebody who knows what they are doing) can strap up the laptop and iron things out with the maestro. I'm stoked that if the frankenturbo is not the end for me I don't have to go software searching to get up and running. The only thing I don't like is the one guy (C. Tapp) seems to have way too much responsibility but I'll live with that. I could actually care less that every car isn't running oe great. Hell there a thousand complaints about stage 2 tunes being less then perfect. I've seen enough to move forward with maestro

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Well the .Dotuning software is on the way, I should have it Monday would be my guess. Then looking to have the install done that week. I'll keep everyone posted about it.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

fusionti said:


> Well the .Dotuning software is on the way, I should have it Monday would be my guess. Then looking to have the install done that week. I'll keep everyone posted about it.


Software on the way?? How does the dotuning software process work?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Brokenparts said:


> Software on the way?? How does the dotuning software process work?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


Well I don't want to speak for them, but from what I've understood they will either swap ecu's with you or they have a flashloader. I went with the flashloader setup.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

fusionti said:


> Well I don't want to speak for them, but from what I've understood they will either swap ecu's with you or they have a flashloader. I went with the flashloader setup.


Now we're talkin...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Well best thing to do is if you are interested is to talk with them.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't want eurodyne ?? It's insanely powerful and great if you want to fine tune and extract the net power. I can literally make my own tunes with it. 

I'm super hyped there are other options coming out, choices and competition is great - and that means more tuners are looking at ways of using the stock fueling system. But I still feel eurodyne is crazy powerful.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I guess I don't understand why someone wouldn't want eurodyne ?? It's insanely powerful and great if you want to fine tune and extract the net power. I can literally make my own tunes with it.
> 
> I'm super hyped there are other options coming out, choices and competition is great - and that means more tuners are looking at ways of using the stock fueling system. But I still feel eurodyne is crazy powerful.


If you're savvy and know how to tune properly then yes Maestro is a great tool. Unfortunately, there are many of us who don't have that knowledge and dealing with C. Tapp sometimes is the biggest pain in the ass.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> If you're savvy and know how to tune properly then yes Maestro is a great tool. Unfortunately, there are many of us who don't have that knowledge and dealing with C. Tapp sometimes is the biggest pain in the ass.


Tap has helped me for sure - but agreed it can be slow... Real slow. I would hype his product more if his support and base tune database was more polished..


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Tap has helped me for sure - but agreed it can be slow... Real slow. I would hype his product more if his support and base tune database was more polished..


His database and support is great on MED7 but not on MED9.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I absolutely would prefer the eurodyne software IF there was a solid base tune to start with.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

I would agree that Eurodyne is a great option, but it isn't right for me. Cost and know how are two things that kept me from going that route. Given the time I'm sure I could have started to learn and understand Eurodyne, but at this time I'm going to let the experts take care of this.

Also the feedback from all the users on .Dotuning is some of the best I have ever seen. I have yet to see a dissatisfied person running that software, unlike any of the other big tuners.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

If I recall correctly some of you were running the eurodyne 2+ software before the f23t came. How did people like that base tune?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> I absolutely would prefer the eurodyne software IF there was a solid base tune to start with.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


Eurodyne did about 28 revisions on my car and still could not get it right. .dotuning tried a beta test file and it was on the money the first time. Just saying!


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I really don't care whos software I end up running, I just want as few hassles as possible. I would like to be able to compare the available F23T tunes with the available K04 tunes as well. I've been curious about the ability to use stock injectors and why the other tuners need S3 injectors for their K04 tunes, I am also interested in a runner flap delete kit and other options available.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> I really don't care whos software I end up running, I just want as few hassles as possible. I would like to be able to compare the available F23T tunes with the available K04 tunes as well. I've been curious about the ability to use stock injectors and why the other tuners need S3 injectors for their K04 tunes, I am also interested in a runner flap delete kit and other options available.


I'm running flapperless, Mafless, on stock injectors, Zero drivability here....


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> I'm running flapperless, Mafless, on stock injectors, Zero drivability here....


It's just odd... The biggest issue I see is that there is no main fuel correction like on MED7 computers.

To be perfectly honest, maestro is incredibly powerful... It does, however a pretty steep learning curve. I now know what all the torque management tables do... But it's hard to know how to tweak them without the appropriate tools (there is no med9 tuning spreadsheet tool like there was with med7, that is not Eurodyne related, btw). 

Previously, I'd torque management couldn't figure out how much fuel to push, you just go to the main fuel correction and give it a bump. There is only injector correction for med9, which doesn't account for load... Just rpm, so it changes it across the board not just for a given load site.

If you look at nefmoto, though, the people who are hand-coding and flashing their ecu's are using the same tables we have access to... C Tapp, to be fair, just isn't including them because most people just wouldn't use them anyway.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> If I recall correctly some of you were running the eurodyne 2+ software before the f23t came. How did people like that base tune?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


2+ file seemed to work fine! Good fuel Econ and satisfactory power. No before/after logs to compare with APR (whoops!)

Curiously, though... When I tried the 2+ file with the f23t last night, I got some wicked overboost (it jumped up to 35psi and scared the **** out of me). Not a problem at WOT, but part throttle it had some wicked overshoot, I suspect it's just one glitchy boundary with the duty cycle table (or proportionality constant, or maybe with the differential correction?)

But! With the 2+ file I still saw ~240g/s with the f23t! That is impressive.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> 2+ file seemed to work fine! Good fuel Econ and satisfactory power. No before/after logs to compare with APR (whoops!)
> 
> Curiously, though... When I tried the 2+ file with the f23t last night, I got some wicked overboost (it jumped up to 35psi and scared the **** out of me). Not a problem at WOT, but part throttle it had some wicked overshoot, I suspect it's just one glitchy boundary with the duty cycle table (or proportionality constant, or maybe with the differential correction?)
> 
> But! With the 2+ file I still saw ~240g/s with the f23t! That is impressive.


Once the file gets ironed out you should be seeing above 240g/s more like 260 +


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> I really don't care whos software I end up running, I just want as few hassles as possible. I would like to be able to compare the available F23T tunes with the available K04 tunes as well. I've been curious about the ability to use stock injectors and why the other tuners need S3 injectors for their K04 tunes, I am also interested in a runner flap delete kit and other options available.


Not too sure either why they require it besides maybe they are easier to work with? I have no idea. 

Dotuning told me in an email that they can make a k04 file with the stock injectors.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Tutti57 said:


> Not too sure either why they require it besides maybe they are easier to work with? I have no idea.
> 
> Dotuning told me in an email that they can make a k04 file with the stock injectors.


Honestly I don't think there is anything these guys can't do with the MKV platform.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

fusionti said:


> Honestly I don't think there is anything these guys can't do with the MKV platform.


:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> Eurodyne did about 28 revisions on my car and still could not get it right. .dotuning tried a beta test file and it was on the money the first time. Just saying!


Well, to be fair, were all those revisions coming from me (NOT an expert tuner, by any measure) or from Eurodyne? And also did .doTuning get a look at any logs before creating a file? If yes to the second question, I see no harm in that. I share data logs among tuners often. But that's because I know it expedites the software development process.



majic said:


> 2+ file seemed to work fine! Good fuel Econ and satisfactory power. No before/after logs to compare with APR (whoops!)
> 
> Curiously, though... When I tried the 2+ file with the f23t last night, I got some wicked overboost (it jumped up to 35psi and scared the **** out of me). Not a problem at WOT, but part throttle it had some wicked overshoot, I suspect it's just one glitchy boundary with the duty cycle table (or proportionality constant, or maybe with the differential correction?)
> 
> But! With the 2+ file I still saw ~240g/s with the f23t! That is impressive.


Good grief, DON'T run the F23T with K03-based boost duty maps. It's going to ruin your motor.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

well, I feel a lot better about these logs, taken while the same car was running a Eurodyne F23T file. That's some really fine boost control right there. Yessir.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

majic said:


> 2+ file seemed to work fine! Good fuel Econ and satisfactory power. No before/after logs to compare with APR (whoops!)
> 
> Curiously, though... When I tried the 2+ file with the f23t last night, I got some wicked overboost (it jumped up to 35psi and scared the **** out of me). Not a problem at WOT, but part throttle it had some wicked overshoot, I suspect it's just one glitchy boundary with the duty cycle table (or proportionality constant, or maybe with the differential correction?)
> 
> But! With the 2+ file I still saw ~240g/s with the f23t! That is impressive.


Maybe a manual boost control would fix that?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Well, to be fair, were all those revisions coming from me (NOT an expert tuner, by any measure) or from Eurodyne? And also did .doTuning get a look at any logs before creating a file? If yes to the second question, I see no harm in that. I share data logs among tuners often. But that's because I know it expedites the software development process.


I honestly didn't get a chance to send them any logs beforehand. The first beta file is what I'm still driving around with. I'm not trying to come off either as arrogant on the other hand I'm as excited on this development as when you first mentioned the idea of using my car as a test car.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

I find it strange how between this site and mkv how people get so defensive about these two tuners. Honestly I think both are great tuners, but I think both serve different purposes. One is for the person that wants to fine tune their setup themselves. The other just wants no hassle tune done by experts, I of course went with no hassle. 

They are both great tuners just take which option suits you.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

More Noob stuff happening in this thread. Fanboi arguments aren't far off now


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

Is anyone running this turbo on a stock HPFP?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Rub-ISH said:


> More Noob stuff happening in this thread. Fanboi arguments aren't far off now


How so? Add your .2 cents?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

flat tyre said:


> Is anyone running this turbo on a stock HPFP?




That sounds risky to me...


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

The stock hpfp supplies plenty of power on the high end. The mid range and low end would probably be detuned.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> How so? Add your .2 cents?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


Long ago I was a part of this exact same kind of turbo development with the GTRS turbo...This tuner vs that one, mafless, fuel trims, logs of unimportant value blocks, Blah Blah Blah...It always turns into a pissing match between people who aren't qualified to speak on it. 

I know I was *THAT GUY* too! Just already seeing the writing on the wall...

Constant remaps of the ecu over and over until someone blows a turbo or pops a rod...Then all hell breaks loose 

2Cents...opcorn:


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

flat tyre said:


> Is anyone running this turbo on a stock HPFP?


You can do it as long as you run a manual boost control. It was designed as a stock replacement part for people who don't have all of the upgrades yet. Then you can add the upgrades like hpfp and tune later to get full potential. 

I was hopin to go this exact route.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Rub-ISH said:


> Long ago I was a part of this exact same kind of turbo development with the GTRS turbo...This tuner vs that one, mafless, fuel trims, logs of unimportant value blocks, Blah Blah Blah...It always turns into a pissing match between people who aren't qualified to speak on it.
> 
> I know I was *THAT GUY* too! Just already seeing the writing on the wall...
> 
> ...


I think you're right in some ways... while doing testing with the 2+ file the other day I overboosted like a MOFO. Tapp asked me to run it and get some data logs, and I not knowing any better didn't think to look over the boost duty to make sure it wasn't dangerous. Doug quickly spotted it and rightly told me (and other people watching this thread) to NOT run 2+ with the F23T installed. 

Mistakes will get made, but hopefully if we're careful and communicate no one will get injured in the process  

Doug and Tapp have done their homework (as well as .Do and presumably GAIC) to prevent catastrophic failures from occurring, or at least I have confidence in them that they have. :thumbup:


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Rub-ISH said:


> Long ago I was a part of this exact same kind of turbo development with the GTRS turbo...This tuner vs that one, mafless, fuel trims, logs of unimportant value blocks, Blah Blah Blah...It always turns into a pissing match between people who aren't qualified to speak on it.
> 
> I know I was *THAT GUY* too! Just already seeing the writing on the wall...
> 
> ...


Exactly why I am sitting back waiting for this to get sorted out before jumping in. My car isn't a daily driver or anything but I would like to enjoy it when I want to. This is a great product and doug doesn't have his own huge test fleet of cars so this is all understandable.

:beer:


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Anyone have any idea what's going on here?

At part throttle moderate load shifts, the car seems to lose power and the boost gauge bounces as shown in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-NrwDrGm24. You can see it around 7 seconds, it will bounce around 5PSI while it seems like the car tries to decide what to do. I have to apply more gas or I just have to wait for the bouncing to settle down before the power returns.

Be sure to listen to the sound as well that it makes.

Any thoughts or ideas welcome.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

majic said:


> Anyone have any idea what's going on here?
> 
> At part throttle moderate load shifts, the car seems to lose power and the boost gauge bounces as shown in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-NrwDrGm24. You can see it around 7 seconds, it will bounce around 5PSI while it seems like the car tries to decide what to do. I have to apply more gas or I just have to wait for the bouncing to settle down before the power returns.
> 
> ...


Your'e experiencing a bit of fluctuations there. I had that similar issue which was later resolved with a C. Tapp revision.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

A3Performance said:


> Your'e experiencing a bit of fluctuations there. I had that similar issue which was later resolved with a C. Tapp revision.


Cool, well... I told him about it so we'll se what happens. I wish I knew how to fix it myself :/

Also, for those interested... Tapp sent me a new file and it fixes the fuel Econ issue... I'm getting some hella misfires at midrange rpm at WOT, he said he'd have me a new file by Monday. 

Fuel Econ is back over 30 again!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Ive literally had zero help from Tapp dat azz


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Pure.Dope said:


> Ive literally had zero help from Tapp dat azz



How is one man suppose to service every customer with a maestro? They really need more than one man on board. Hell if he goes on vacation, is sick or worse then what?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> How is one man suppose to service every customer with a maestro? They really need more than one man on board. Hell if he goes on vacation, is sick or worse then what?


Right... I am in favor of keeping the peace and being patient. I know he's one dude, and when he does decide to focus his efforts on a problem he has (thus far) demonstrated superior knowledge.

Me being the consummate DIY'er, though, I wish he could share some insight on how to do these things myself in the future haha... but, that's just how it goes with these sorts of things (tuners zealously guarding their knowledge of how these maps work!) :laugh:


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

I'll tell you guys right now, the stuff that .Dotuning sent me is really amazing looking. The Alientech Powergate 3 is what I'll be using from them to install and make modifications to the software. Only said thing is I have to wait till next week for the turbo to be installed. :banghead: I'll keep everyone posted when it's done.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A quick bit of Monday eye-candy. Our 20v Audi TT got to take a blast through the training course at WaterFest's autocross circuit. Granted the motor's not an FSI, but the turbo is the same. The event was huge fun.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

looks great Doug!!


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Just a quick report... new file seems to have fixed quite a few issues. Fuel trims are stable at ~-4.1 so far, and fuel economy (on the tripmeter at least) appears to have improved. Only real way to tell if it's changed significantly will be to watch it over the next tank or so. 

It's not quite 100%, I get a misfire at 4920RPM's for some reason (anyone else with this issue?) I can't tell any sort of transition point on the table (with the exception of the MAF correction table). AFR jumps from .8 to .85 and flow gets schwacked momentarily... but then bounces back and pulls to redline. 

The fluctuation has all but disappeared (not sure if it's placebo effect or if it's gone for good). Will keep you posted, but it's looking pretty good.

:beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> It's not quite 100%, I get a misfire at 4920RPM's for some reason (anyone else with this issue?) I can't tell any sort of transition point on the table (with the exception of the MAF correction table). AFR jumps from .8 to .85 and flow gets schwacked momentarily... but then bounces back and pulls to redline.


The logs show a blip in the boost duty right at that point, and it's mirrored neatly in the airflows graph. I have a hunch the misfire is related to that.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Edit.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> The logs show a blip in the boost duty right at that point, and it's mirrored neatly in the airflows graph. I have a hunch the misfire is related to that.


Those injectors seem to be working a bit hard on that log.. Perhaps Tapp should raise the fuel pressure a bit and drop the injector median.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Has GIAC said anything publicly about the F23T?


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

Only that they have a test car and are developing a file


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Those injectors seem to be working a bit hard on that log.. Perhaps Tapp should raise the fuel pressure a bit and drop the injector median.


That was my thought too but edited it as I wasn't sure. That blip on the injector time seems suspicious too. I also know that too much pressure and the injectors won't open. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> Has GIAC said anything publicly about the F23T?


Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
We're still working on something for the F23. At this point, I don't have a definite release date as we have a few projects that are occupying much of our time.

Also Doug, did we find out what degree hose worked best for this install? I got my install time Monday and still have that 45 degree. Let me know so I can order something different and get it here asap.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

fusionti said:


> Also Doug, did we find out what degree hose worked best for this install? I got my install time Monday and still have that 45 degree. Let me know so I can order something different and get it here asap.


Yes we did. Contact me by email for a replacement part.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Yes we did. Contact me by email for a replacement part.


Email sent, thanks Doug.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

any news on S3 injector equipped cars? We still only have the original test car running the S3 injector file? S3 injectors and valve cleaning is on my short list after the install.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> any news on S3 injector equipped cars? We still only have the original test car running the S3 injector file? S3 injectors and valve cleaning is on my short list after the install.


Unless you are going with a tuner who is dictating those injectors, there is no reason to use them. The stock injectors combined with an HPFP upgrade can support this turbo. Here are another batch of graphs to illustrate the point.











I am fully satisfied that the combination of stock injectors and a quality HPFP upgrade will support this turbo. The only remaining question mark is the low pressure fuel pump. When asked to flow ~300+ whp of fuel, it can't sustain the 5bar being asked of it. This may be a problem or it may not be. I'd be very interested to see logs from a K04-equipped car to see what they are doing.


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

Doug, if I run mw50 with stock hpfp and 20psi mbc in parallel with the n75 could I safely run the base eurodyne file on a stock HPFP?


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## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

A3Performance said:


> Those injectors seem to be working a bit hard on that log.. Perhaps Tapp should raise the fuel pressure a bit and drop the injector median.


median could be consider high, if tuner hasn't modified parameters related to injection start angle. With altered start angle, some tuners could make use of slightly higher injection timing.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Well Doug to answer your question about low fuel pressure side, i'm already looking for options.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> Well Doug to answer your question about low fuel pressure side, i'm already looking for options.


One option to count out: the OEM in-tank unit from the TTRS. GIAC's test car tried one and their low pressure system values were WORSE. Who knows why. Personally, I think the pressure drop in the low pressure fuel circuit is a non-issue. If it were a problem, I don't see how logs like these would be possible:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Sounds like an upgraded lpfp will be necessary too? Not a huge issue... just trying to de-code what you fellas are alluding to. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> Sounds like an upgraded lpfp will be necessary too? Not a huge issue... just trying to de-code what you fellas are alluding to.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


Well, it may not be necessary... there is a drop in the output of the LPFP, but the HPFP side of things is still keeping up pretty well.

So even though the low pressure side of things are less than ideal, this is a "so what?" kind of situation.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Unless you are going with a tuner who is dictating those injectors, there is no reason to use them. The stock injectors combined with an HPFP upgrade can support this turbo. Here are another batch of graphs to illustrate the point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of logs are you looking for? I could do it. 

Set up is as follows

GIAC High Output ko4 file
Eurojet/VWR intake hybrid
Eurojet full hard pipes old style FMIC (not a sandwich style)
Eurojet valve cover and VTA catch can 
S3 injectors 
S3 DV reroute
Auto tech Hpfp
Integrated rifle drilled rods 
RS4 check valve
USP fluid dampner 
USP Intank LPFP
Southbend stage 2 with light flywheel 
APR RSC exhaust

Doug, I could log whatever you wanted but I may be to far modded for what your looking for?!


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Rub-ISH said:


> What kind of logs are you looking for? I could do it.
> 
> Set up is as follows
> 
> ...


Blocks 002-230-231 are what Doug asked me to log


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> Blocks 002-230-231 are what Doug asked me to log


Exactly. Here's why:



002 shows airflow and the injection timing. This tells how hard the injectors are working at that airflow.
230 shows the high-pressure fuel circuit's requests for pressure and actuals. This tells us the pressure being fed to the injectors, and how closely that matches the ECU's demands
231 shows the LOW pressure fuel circuit's requests and actuals. This tells us how much pressure is being fed to the high pressure circuit.


It's my contention that the high-pressure pump can operate with no ill effects when fed by a reduced pressure from the low pressure pump. Perhaps I'm being a bit arbitrary with a number, but I feel 3bar of pressure in the LPFP circuit is acceptable. And if logs from other, pre-existing software/hardware configurations show the same LPFP pressure drop behavior, then I think the evidence is in my favor.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Rub-ISH said:


> Set up is as follows
> 
> GIAC High Output ko4 file
> Eurojet/VWR intake hybrid
> ...


It's too bad you already modded your in-tank pump. Nevertheless it'd be very interesting to see its performance in block 231.

As for the question of the stock LPFP, I found this thread on Audizine which discusses the question in the context of a failing pump. That thread was resolved when the pump was replaced with a new OEM unit. For a look at that car's LPFP circuit performance AFTER replacement/repair, go directly to this post:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...gging-Blocks?p=5430708&viewfull=1#post5430708


So that's one precedent for sub-4mbar pressures. I'll keep looking for more.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Hey just wanted to say a personal thanks to Doug. 

I asked him about getting a part for the turbo by this Monday for my install or if he could tell me what part I would need so I could go buy one.

Without question Doug sent me an email the very next day telling me I would have it tomorrow, which was Thursday the 25th and I have it.

Amazing service and support Doug thanks again.

:thumbup:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

fusionti said:


> Hey just wanted to say a personal thanks to Doug.
> 
> I asked him about getting a part for the turbo by this Monday for my install or if he could tell me what part I would need so I could go buy one.
> 
> ...


I'll second this. Top notch customer service/support from that guy!


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Anybody wanna buy my bsh pendulum mount? Taking it off this weekend. Other parts I have:

Forge Twintercooler
22DD Catch can :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

fusionti said:


> Amazing service and support Doug thanks again.
> 
> :thumbup:



Well, all I ask in return (since I already got your money ) is some install pix. This thread is 37 pages and there are virtually no "build thread" pix. I'm missing that eye candy.


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## kermitz (Mar 17, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Well, all I ask in return (since I already got your money ) is some install pix. This thread is 37 pages and there are virtually no "build thread" pix. I'm missing that eye candy.


We need some videos too.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Quick update to those looking for .DoTuning info. 549.99 for tune and 699.99 for tune and flash tool. Anyone looking for tune or tool should contact [email protected]


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> Quick update to those looking for .DoTuning info. 549.99 for tune and 699.99 for tune and flash tool. Anyone looking for tune or tool should contact [email protected]


Thanks... just sent them an email.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

By the way Doug... the button to purchase the F23t isnt working.


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

I'll be buying one of these next week to run with the Eurodyne file, although in addition to stock injectors I'll be using stock HPFP. In order to safely the following should need adjustment:

-Fueling (several maps)
-Cylinder filling (and inverse map, optimum torque)
-Boost duty
-Boost PID
-VE curve

Based on the stock HPFP flow graph on APR's website my plan is to reduce the midrange power spike. What else am I missing? Since cylinder filling and optimum torque are mirrors of each other will one automatically adjust if the other is changed or do I need to carefully change each by the same proportion? I'm new to ECU tuning but I'll be damned if I can't run this thing safely on the stock HPFP.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

I don't encourage that set up at all.. Get a HPFP!


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

Yeah, I had another look at the graph on APR's site and it looks like I'll be fueling limited on this turbo even up the rev range at peak power.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

flat tyre said:


> I'll be buying one of these next week to run with the Eurodyne file, although in addition to stock injectors I'll be using stock HPFP. In order to safely the following should need adjustment:
> 
> -Fueling (several maps)
> -Cylinder filling (and inverse map, optimum torque)
> ...


Why not just run an Autotech upgrade? Why play with a $4000 motor over a $300 part?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> Why not just run an Autotech upgrade? Why play with a $4000 motor over a $300 part?


I agree. A fuel pump upgrade is simply a common-sense modification. I've been admonishing my 20v customers to do the same for years. Make sure the car can fuel for the increased "Franken-air".


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

How is the HPFP Upgrades pump? I want to get something I won't have a second thought reliability-wise so I had been leaning toward a new APR pump.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

flat tyre said:


> How is the HPFP Upgrades pump? I want to get something I won't have a second thought reliability-wise so I had been leaning toward a new APR pump.


I've had zero issues with my stage one new pump, it's been on for well over 15k now.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

flat tyre said:


> How is the HPFP Upgrades pump? I want to get something I won't have a second thought reliability-wise so I had been leaning toward a new APR pump.


There is nothing wrong with the latest rendition of the autotech pump.

It has been redesigned, and works well. Sorry to all the early adopters on that...!


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> There is nothing wrong with the latest rendition of the autotech pump.
> 
> It has been redesigned, and works well. Sorry to all the early adopters on that...!


I had the first Autotech pump and after around 30k miles it seized up...but I still had my receipt from the sale and Autotech sent me a brand new one after looking at my first pump. Flawless since.

Only thing that sucked was coming up with another pump for a couple of days while the autotech was warrantied


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

so... what's the verdict on the lpfp?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Brokenparts said:


> so... what's the verdict on the lpfp?


It's not needed really but It would be nice to have in order to keep the low side at a steady 5 bar


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> so... what's the verdict on the lpfp?


I for one can't completely dismiss this question. Not until I have seen logs from a K04 car running the stock pump. Perhaps I should start a separate thread requesting block 231 logs.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

I have a K04 running a stock LpFp. I have a HPFPupgrade pump. I take it you could use some logs? Which blocks? Rail pressure and low pressure?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

you are a perfect candidate for logging. You've upgraded the high pressure pump (which we all acknowledge to be a necessity) but still have the OEM, in-tank low pressure pump. Can you log blocks:

002-230-231

This will show airflow, high pressure system performance & the same for the low pressure system. Please log from 3000rpms WOT to 6500rpms in 3rd gear. Be SAFE or don't do it!

:thumbup:


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Why third gear instead of 4th?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

It's safer and it's the gear I ask all testers and customers to use when logging. So your logs taken in 3rd will be directly comparable to all the others we already have.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I cannot for the life of me figure out how anybody has the balls to log to 6500rpm in 4th gear. Unless racetrack.


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

Pure.Dope said:


> I cannot for the life of me figure out how anybody has the balls to log to 6500rpm in 4th gear. Unless racetrack.


How do you have an F23T but not max out 4th gear?


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Racetracks and dynos are a dime a dozen where I live (NASCAR country). That and it's apparently acceptable for Underground Racing to use the I-485 loop as a test track.  I'll log 3rd for orange to orange results to your existing data but that gear ratio won't provide the best data. I also have to log airflow for some people that requested it. :thumbup:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> I cannot for the life of me figure out how anybody has the balls to log to 6500rpm in 4th gear. Unless racetrack.


What MPH are you hitting if you redline 4th in the GTI manual transmission? DSG?

All I know is - way too fast for the street!


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> What MPH are you hitting if you redline 4th in the GTI manual transmission? DSG?
> 
> All I know is - way too fast for the street!


I log with Pete from time to time and that I-485 section that Underground Racing uses for the TT Lambos and R8s they can reach 200+ easily and quickly. I have been logging on that same stretch with Pete(4th gear logs 35MPH to redline) and have hit around 160MPH. Granted it's not the smartest thing, but if you have a buddy system and do it right(and only a few pulls). It'll be ok. It's awesome for logging since dynos cost money to rent :laugh:

And I have same car as Pete as well.......2006 GLI K04, HPFP, blah blah and 6-speed


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

The DSG in my passat would go 120 MPH + actual MPH in 4th which is easy to hit even without mods. 4th in my O2Q only hits maybe 110 MPH actual. You guys need to give up your mods if reaching these speeds is an issue.

jhines, 160 MPH on the speedometer is only about 144 MPH actual, and by that time you'll have shifted to 6th on a O2Q.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

flat tyre said:


> The DSG in my passat would go 120 MPH + actual MPH in 4th which is easy to hit even without mods. 4th in my O2Q only hits maybe 110 MPH actual. *You guys need to give up your mods if reaching these speeds is an issue.*
> 
> jhines, 160 MPH on the speedometer is only about 144 MPH actual, and by that time you'll have shifted to 6th on a O2Q.


That would probably be 90% of people. You're smoking crack dude. Who the **** goes 120mph+?

brb all my mods now useless
brb criminal speeding
brb going to jail
brb losing my job


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> That would probably be 90% of people. You're smoking crack dude. Who the **** goes 120mph+?
> 
> brb all my mods now useless
> brb criminal speeding
> ...


Hahahha dude you're just not cool if you don't so 120+ on public roads. Because instant seizure of your vehicle and "having the book thrown at you" in court is totally worth it!!

@flat tyre - obviously our vehicles are more than capable of reaching those speeds. It's just the place and time does not present itself. As in - private roads / tracks / dynos. So cut the attitude bro.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, here's a way to resolve this: nobody needs to log for this, anyway. Last night a vortexer sent me his logs from an APR K04 car he'd logged. And the results are no surprise at all:











Plunk goes the low pressure fuel system.


Here are some graphs for other parameters:











And for good measure, one more look at the low pressure system's performance at the corresponding airflows:











OK. So *NOW* I am convinced. If every one of APR's K04 kits are corroborating what we've been seeing, then that's just too many instances to ignore. I'm ruling this issue as "busted".


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Now when I say I have a stock LP I actually have a newer revision because mine was cutting out during high ambient temps about two years back (common issue of overheating). I'll pull a third as requested. For regarding top speed we aren't the worst offenders (1:08):




The reason this strip is used is because it is seldom populated with vehicles due to it being the most recent of our outer loop expansion. The area in red has yet to be completed (eta 2017) so there is little speed enforcement or traffic. The green area is where people test. Once again this is in no way a justification, simply a statement of fact. 








Now deer on the other hand.  I can only imagine what a 120lb buck would do to a Lambo at 'test' speed. UGR moves a lot of product and they need to test it somewhere as there isn't enough cooling/air movement on a dyno for the amount of heat their systems generate. Furthermore I doubt Charlotte Motor Speedway would allow them to do 200 MPH on the Roval even if they could get access.


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

You can do these speeds easily if you're patient and can use your head. A few things to keep in mind:

1) Know the road, know the area. Not every part of every road is suitable for hauling ass. For best results, limit yourself to sections of road you can almost guarantee will be safe. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time until you're signing the ticket pad.

2) Don't pop into blind spots, for example cresting a hill, while going "too fast" unless you know it's clear on the other side. Factors to help you assess the other side as clear could include: no shoulder for the law to camp in, if you're using a spotter, using prior knowledge of the area and traffic enforcement patterns to blow though commonly unenforced areas (moderately risky). Alternatively, you can blow over the hill but be aware of what you're getting into, which I'll come back to at the ** below.

3. Don't drive like an *******. This means using your turn signal and making smooth turns, even well over 100. Don't weave through traffic, buzz other drivers or harass anyone or your chances of attracting the wrong kind of attention will escalate dramatically. 

4. One good time to go fast is starting at 3 AM, because by that time the drunks will mostly have made it home from the bars and there is a minimum of other traffic still on the road. Other good times are dictated by your local traffic schedule. On Sunday the roads will usually be quite open.

5. If your area law enforcement uses radar, you'll need a good radar detector. Don't cheap out or you'll pay again. If the fuzz uses laser, you'll need to either avoid the laser enforcement zones, drive the speed limit, or get a laser jammer and be prepared to get pulled over (but without any good evidence to give you a ticket for speeding).

6. Never lose focus. While hauling ass, you'll need to be constantly scanning the horizon and road edges for law enforcement. A one second lapse could make the difference between remaining undetected and continuing the journey, or getting pulled over and busted for whatever infractions the officer feels like citing you for.

7. Don't fear the law. You should be polite, respectful, and say only that you were traveling a "safe and reasonable speed." Say nothing else about your driving or it will sink you. Just because you were going 120 MPH when you saw the cop doesn't mean he can prove it. Just stay quiet and take whatever tickets you get, you'll be fighting them in court.

8. This is getting too long since I have to go somewhere but in brief, ALWAYS fight your ticket in court. You can do it all yourself, but if unsure of anything you might get a traffic attorney. 


I've been using these guidelines for the past few years with my Escort 9500i. You know that feeling where the road is open and you want to drive faster, but fear of the LAW keeps you in line? I don't have that feeling. I just drive as fast as is reasonable for the given conditions and don't get tickets.


** Rule of thumb when considering running is don't. You will get caught, and turn your simple misdemeanor expensive traffic ticket into a much more expensive felony. The reason not to run is very simple: you're almost certainly a much worse driver than you think, and the cops are usually much better.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I am nearly decided on this turbo. I'm really excited to see what GIAC has to offer. Dunno if I will go with GIAC as I want to install a RFD kit or a intake manifold and I dunno if they will have a provision for that.

Does this have a standard k03 outlet, would it be compatible with the neuspeed discharge pipe? Is there a muffler on the outlet or has that been deleted?


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

GTI2Slow said:


> I am nearly decided on this turbo. I'm really excited to see what GIAC has to offer. Dunno if I will go with GIAC as I want to install a RFD kit or a intake manifold and I dunno if they will have a provision for that.
> 
> Does this have a standard k03 outlet, would it be compatible with the neuspeed discharge pipe? Is there a muffler on the outlet or has that been deleted?


I am the same way... I think there is A LOT of us that are just waiting for the software to be "ironed" out and some more reviews to be viewed. Feedback from the earlier adopters is really quite thin which is surprising. No one has really given a proper review yet.


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## bengone1 (Jun 17, 2003)

Doug,
That car had the LPFP driver and the LPFP (APR) replaced to try and rectify the spec v actual on the LP pump and breaking up as the RPMs increased. It is now running the latest USP intank pump, APR hpfp, RS4 valve, Shrick cams, pistons, rods, port work, Eurodyne base file with your f23. He is a very happy camper thus far. Much more wheel spin in 3rd even with the LSD. He hasn't plumbed the meth yet but teaser:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

GTI2Slow said:


> Does this have a standard k03 outlet


No. Similar to APR K04 except there is no adapter machined, its made that way (look at pics on site or in this thread. or I could post some lol)



GTI2Slow said:


> would it be compatible with the neuspeed discharge pipe?


Not the adapter that bolts to the turbo nor would it do anything anyway (look at outlet pic in this thread or their site...or I could post some). The outlet PIPE could be fitted (I guess its suppose to be larger diameter than the stock pipe). if the silicon hose that comes with the frankenturbo doesn't fit the neuspeed pipe inlet at worse all you would need is to find the same silicon hose supplied with the frankenturbo but with the right size outlet diameter to fit the neuspeed pipe inlet. Again unless its already on the car it would be a complete waste of money



GTI2Slow said:


> Is there a muffler on the outlet or has that been deleted?


No muffler (look at pics lol)


----------



## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Brokenparts said:


> I am the same way... I think there is A LOT of us that are just waiting for the software to be "ironed" out and some more reviews to be viewed


Ain't going to happen buddy IMO. As you saw with the Eurodyne based on slightly different hardware, factory model year code changes and who knows what other variables tweaks will need to be made. not the SAME tweaks for everybody. This is why to this day people still complain and need fixes for their cookie cutter k04 tunes and either have to take off or add on hardware.

With Eurodyne you just need somebody with the skills to make the changes. Only downside is there only appears to be one guy doing it all for the Frankenturbo...but there are others who can scattered about (access and willingness are something different).

.dotuning seems to work with you based on logs and a base tune then fine tunes for YOUR car based on feedback.

You can wait for a cookie cutter GIAC but not only are you stuck with using the parts the test car used if you have issues, your stuck with boost, timing and a bunch of other variables you'll be stuck with if its not to your liking. k03 is easy (well easy for me to say) in the sense all tuners simply push it for all its safely worth and boost response is so naturally sharp with its tiny size.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Ain't going to happen buddy IMO. As you saw with the Eurodyne based on slightly different hardware, factory model year code changes and who knows what other variables tweaks will need to be made. not the SAME tweaks for everybody. This is why to this day people still complain and need fixes for their cookie cutter k04 tunes and either have to take off or add on hardware.
> 
> With Eurodyne you just need somebody with the skills to make the changes. Only downside is there only appears to be one guy doing it all for the Frankenturbo...but there are others who can scattered about (access and willingness are something different).
> 
> ...



Understood. I'd like to use Eurodyne as I think it would be advantageous later on when I make hardware changes. Unfortunately, without a reliable base tune I dont want to go that way as I dont understand it well enough for a daily driver type of car. I'd be willing to learn how to use the software as I understand basic tuning concepts but I'm afraid the learning curve would be longer than I'd be willing to have my car be unusable. 

Dotuning seems to be the best bet right now. I'd love to see some formal reviews when possible.


----------



## bengone1 (Jun 17, 2003)

Brokenparts said:


> Understood. I'd like to use Eurodyne as I think it would be advantageous later on when I make hardware changes. Unfortunately, without a reliable base tune I dont want to go that way as I dont understand it well enough for a daily driver type of car. I'd be willing to learn how to use the software as I understand basic tuning concepts but I'm afraid the learning curve would be longer than I'd be willing to have my car be unusable.
> 
> Dotuning seems to be the best bet right now. I'd love to see some formal reviews when possible.


The Eurodyne base file is working fine on the previously mentioned car that is far more custom than most. Only real drivability issue is surging under 50-75% throttle. Zero timing pull/misfires. I won't be messing with it until the Meth is functional. For those not interested in doing their own tuning. Plenty of tuners are available to custom tune it. Just don't expect a $400 30min job to be perfect.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

bengone1 said:


> The Eurodyne base file is working fine on the previously mentioned car that is far more custom than most. Only real drivability issue is surging under 50-75% throttle. Zero timing pull/misfires. I won't be messing with it until the Meth is functional. For those not interested in doing their own tuning. Plenty of tuners are available to custom tune it. Just don't expect a $400 30min job to be perfect.


Surging is not something I am willing to tolerate. Spending a few extra bucks on good software is...

Is the surging a hardware or software isssue?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> You can wait for a cookie cutter GIAC but not only are you stuck with using the parts the test car used if you have issues, your stuck with boost, timing and a bunch of other variables you'll be stuck with if its not to your liking. k03 is easy (well easy for me to say) in the sense all tuners simply push it for all its safely worth and boost response is so naturally sharp with its tiny size.


When I'm giving GIAC my patented FrankenTurbo-to-tuner pep-talk I emphasize that their file needn't really be "maximized" or "optimized" for the F23T. That's because all it needs to do is better competing products based on K04 and S3 injectors. Given the huge savings of retaining the stock injectors, a "cookie-cutter" F23T file which puts down, say, 310-320whp is going to be a success.

Or at least that's my marketing perspective. Am I steering them wrong?


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> When I'm giving GIAC my patented FrankenTurbo-to-tuner pep-talk I emphasize that their file needn't really be "maximized" or "optimized" for the F23T. That's because all it needs to do is better competing products based on K04 and S3 injectors. Given the huge savings of retaining the stock injectors, a "cookie-cutter" F23T file which puts down, say, 310-320whp is going to be a success.
> 
> Or at least that's my marketing perspective. Am I steering them wrong?



Nope... you win there provided that the hp and tq you are making is as driveable and reliable as your competitors. If it isnt driveable.. then the same market you hope to capture isnt going to be happy.


----------



## bengone1 (Jun 17, 2003)

Brokenparts said:


> Surging is not something I am willing to tolerate. Spending a few extra bucks on good software is...
> 
> Is the surging a hardware or software isssue?


Surging that you can drive around on a highly modified car running a generic base file is not a big deal or a surprise. I would not be surprised if the fix is a combination of wastegate adjusting and n75.


----------



## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Brokenparts said:


> Surging is not something I am willing to tolerate.
> 
> Is the surging a hardware or software isssue?


Why do you think cookie cutter tunes won't surge? Google k04 surging. That is exactly why I WANT something with adjustability so if the supplied tune does surge I can do something to fix it besides having the cookie cutter tuner telling me my blinker fluid is bad and I change my blinker fluid and have the same problem, then they tell me adjust my ignition gate actuator and then after I dial that back I STILL have the problem! Then joe bidden with the same problem spends another $600 for a new tune on top of the first $600 tune that fixes the problem...except I don't like something else about the new tune.

At least with .do or maestro I can email somebody that can give me something to flash to resolve it or I can take it to somebody with maestro experience (RAI is the closest to me that I'm aware of). Or I can just cluck with different values myself and reflash the base tune if I go to far or get lost.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Why do you think cookie cutter tunes won't surge? Google k04 surging. That is exactly why I WANT something with adjustability so if the supplied tune does surge I can do something to fix it besides having the cookie cutter tuner telling me my blinker fluid is bad and I change my blinker fluid and have the same problem, then they tell me adjust my ignition gate actuator and then after I dial that back I STILL have the problem! Then joe bidden with the same problem spends another $600 for a new tune on top of the first $600 tune that fixes the problem...except I don't like something else about the new tune.
> 
> At least with .do or maestro I can email somebody that can give me something to flash to resolve it or I can take it to somebody with maestro experience (RAI is the closest to me that I'm aware of). Or I can just cluck with different values myself and reflash the base tune if I go to far or get lost.


I think you are mis-understanding me or I'm doing a poor job explaining my wants/needs. I am not surprised at all that cookie cutter tunes surge or have issues in general. This is the sole reason that I've been reluctant to buy the f23t. Again, I like the idea of Eurodyne as there is tuning that can be done after the intial base file has been loaded. Unfortunately, I do not have the knowledge to tune it properly and the support that Eurodyne provides seems thin at best. I know Doug has done what he can with the tune but he himself admitted he is not an expert tuner. Up until just a few weeks ago this was really the only option for tuning.

I'm very curious to hear some feedback as more tuners take on the F23t... dotuning being the big one to watch as most people seem very happy with them. I am curious if the same "tuning problems" are the same across various tuners.

Basically what I am saying is:

I am MORE THAN WILLING to pay for custom software/tune. What I dont want to do is pay for a custom tune on hardware that isnt tunable.


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I don't understand your hard on for custom tunes. I want plug an play, not back and forth. Larger companies usually test under a wide variety of conditions and provide a tune that while conservitive and non specific will work under a wide range of conditions. 

There are a few of us who are waiting for this to get sorted out. The information.on K04 tunes and hardware is known,the f23t has a way to go to get to maturity IMHO.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

GTI2Slow said:


> I don't understand your hard on for custom tunes. I want plug an play, not back and forth. Larger companies usually test under a wide variety of conditions and provide a tune that while conservitive and non specific will work under a wide range of conditions.
> 
> There are a few of us who are waiting for this to get sorted out. The information.on K04 tunes and hardware is known,the f23t has a way to go to get to maturity IMHO.



Not sure you are referring to me but I want my software/tuner choice to be able to be flexible as I add/change/upgrade my hardware. I know at some point I will be tempted to do rods and I want the ability to have the tune/tuner to adjust for something like that.

The only reason I'd consider a plug and play type of tune is if it offered 100% drive-ability/reliability with 90% of the results of a custom tune.


----------



## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> When I'm giving GIAC my patented FrankenTurbo-to-tuner pep-talk I emphasize that their file needn't really be "maximized" or "optimized" for the F23T. That's because all it needs to do is better competing products based on K04 and S3 injectors. Given the huge savings of retaining the stock injectors, a "cookie-cutter" F23T file which puts down, say, 310-320whp is going to be a success.
> 
> Or at least that's my marketing perspective. Am I steering them wrong?


Yes...but I think the real issue here is people are scared to stray away from the "big" 3 or 4 so we have a bunch of people waiting for GIAC. The best thing you can do for marketing is having GIAC hurry the hell up


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Yes...but I think the real issue here is people are scared to stray away from the "big" 3 or 4 so we have a bunch of people waiting for GIAC. The best thing you can do for marketing is having GIAC hurry the hell up


YUP... and get some more formal reviews from your early adopters. Really want to hear feedback on the "dotuners" too.


----------



## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

I've started my review, but I haven't posted it here. Also I have a delay as the person that is doing the install isn't working on it today due to another person needing work on their car. So I hope tomorrow I'll get the car back. So will see how it goes tomorrow.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

fusionti said:


> I've started my review, but I haven't posted it here. Also I have a delay as the person that is doing the install isn't working on it today due to another person needing work on their car. So I hope tomorrow I'll get the car back. So will see how it goes tomorrow.


ah... you must be GTIraider from golfmkv. Thanks for starting that thread.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Brokenparts said:


> ah... you must be GTIraider from golfmkv. Thanks for starting that thread.


:thumbup:


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Is doTuning offering boost by gear, launch control, no lift, map switching, anti-lag?  I recall them offering that with some other tunes.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> The best thing you can do for marketing is having GIAC hurry the hell up


I'm comfortable with the pace of tuning for this product so far. I know that GIAC casts a long shadow but they'll offer a solution in good time.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

SmithersSP said:


> Is doTuning offering boost by gear, launch control, no lift, map switching, anti-lag?  I recall them offering that with some other tunes.


They can but I wouldn't recommend anti-lag on a stock block. Launch control is cool just play it smart, and use common sense.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

How does anti-lag work?


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> How does anti-lag work?


Quick and basic version... Fuel gets dumped into the hot exhaust causing detonation. This detonation causes a vacuum of back pressure which spins the hot side of the turbo...which if done properly will jump start the turbo into reaching its full boost faster I.e. anti lag


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Rally car use it to keep their turbo spooled when off throttle (why you hear/see fireballs when they're decelerating).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antilag_system


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)




----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Completely amazing.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Obviously a turbo manufacturer winces when they see those diagrams.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Obviously a turbo manufacturer winces when they see those diagrams.



I can understand - but holy crap ingenious.


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## fusionti (Jan 26, 2011)

Updates are coming soon guys, I'll see if I can get some pics up of the turbo on the car. 

Doug that 90 degree hose worked perfectly, looks great on the car.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

I've never had the audience of a turbo manufacturer before... Doug: How damaging is anti-lag to a K04 exhaust manifold?


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## flat tyre (Jul 3, 2013)

Anti lag will kill the turbo itself, not the manifold. It gets things too hot, and it will fry the turbo in a short period of time, measured in HOURS of use. Wear depends on the degree of antilag but a strong system will be brutal to your turbo.

One way to program antilag if you have maestro is to set timing in the AL range to well after TDC, this sends unburnt fuel into the exhaust...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

SmithersSP said:


> I've never had the audience of a turbo manufacturer before... Doug: How damaging is anti-lag to a K04 exhaust manifold?


Well, it's hard on your valve-train firstly. And then the turbine rotor takes a beating from all that combustion happening within the turbo itself. So the bearings get wrecked pretty fast. It all depends on the degree of abuse, I suppose. Naturally you can't expect warranty coverage for this, but it's a good example of our "no fault CHRA replacement" policy's purpose. For more info, I'll just let these two guys explain:







On a sad note, Xtranormal, the company which generates these little videos, closed its doors just today. Hopefully they can resurface in the future.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Well, it's hard on your valve-train firstly. And then the turbine rotor takes a beating from all that combustion happening within the turbo itself. So the bearings get wrecked pretty fast. It all depends on the degree of abuse, I suppose. Naturally you can't expect warranty coverage for this, but it's a good example of our "no fault CHRA replacement" policy's purpose. For more info, I'll just let these two guys explain:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha... Clever.


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

Brokenparts said:


> haha... Clever.



That was cool.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

xtravbx said:


> How does anti-lag work?


ignition retard, rally style.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

For those running the turbo, when does the turbo reach full boost?

Kinda curious if the f23t spools faster/slower than a K04.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> For those running the turbo, when does the turbo reach full boost?
> 
> Kinda curious if the f23t spools faster/slower than a K04.


3-3200 RPM and holds 22psi all the way to redline.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I hold 24-25. Don't want to blow my motor tho!


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

At this point I am like 95% sure once GIAC releases their tune I'm going to get one.

The only issue I see is support for runner flap delete, I don't know if GIAC will support it. Not really a fan of the smaller tuners, if they close up shop or lose interest in it there goes any support.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

xtravbx said:


> I hold 24-25. Don't want to blow my motor tho!


Is that what the boost guage reads? I thought the map sensor on K03 equipped cars tops out at 23psi.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

GTI2Slow said:


> Is that what the boost guage reads? I thought the map sensor on K03 equipped cars tops out at 23psi.


Gauge


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Gauge


Logging is the true way of seeing how much boost you're making. My gauge is off by 2-3 PSI, just saying.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

A3Performance said:


> Logging is the true way of seeing how much boost you're making. My gauge is off by 2-3 PSI, just saying.


 Not if your car boosts over 22.x psi. Your logs won't show Actual boost levels beyond that number if you've got a stock MAP sensor since it goes blind past that. If your actual boost goes beyond that point, your logs will look like you peak at 22.x and stay there, while your boost gauge will keep climbing and might be closer to your real boost numbers.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Bunnspeed said:


> Not if your car boosts over 22.x psi. Your logs won't show Actual boost levels beyond that number if you've got a stock MAP sensor since it goes blind past that. If your actual boost goes beyond that point, your logs will look like you peak at 22.x and stay there, while your boost gauge will keep climbing and might be closer to your real boost numbers.


 I was waiting for someone else to chime in... What I read elsewhere is that vag-com or anything else logging through the obd2 port will be limited by the 8bit data representation. The computer can read higher values, but you can't see them unless you log from a memory map. 

This is as I understand it from what I read in a related post on nefmoto.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

you can log over 2550mbar, you can log over 2550mbar with a stock map as well if you increase the voltage accepted from the map sensor(just a bit though)


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

RaraK69 said:


> you can log over 2550mbar, you can log over 2550mbar with a stock map as well if you increase the voltage accepted from the map sensor...


 That's a nifty trick. How?


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Either use larger map sensor like the golfr or s3 or the tdi 4 bar. 

Then you calibrate it in ecu with basic slope formula 

Or 

You raise max voltage ecu will read from map sensor to give you little extra bit of room. Swapping map is best solution


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

RaraK69 said:


> Either use larger map sensor like the golfr or s3 or the tdi 4 bar.
> 
> Then you calibrate it in ecu with basic slope formula
> 
> ...


 Slick. I'm gonna order one up.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

RaraK69 said:


> Either use larger map sensor like the golfr or s3 or the tdi 4 bar.
> 
> Then you calibrate it in ecu with basic slope formula
> 
> ...


 :beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

RaraK69 said:


> Either use larger map sensor like the golfr or s3 or the tdi 4 bar.
> 
> Then you calibrate it in ecu with basic slope formula
> 
> ...


 OK. So I'm clear on WHAT you're doing. But I was looking for the HOW.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Doug - I think I will collect some logs for you tonight. Beautiful outside!


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> OK. So I'm clear on WHAT you're doing. But I was looking for the HOW.


 This. I'd always heard swapping MAPs was possible but wasn't plug and play.


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Bunnspeed said:


> This. I'd always heard swapping MAPs was possible but wasn't plug and play.


 It's not PnP. It requires file modification.


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)




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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> It's not PnP. It requires file modification.


 You doTuning folks want to offer a unique feature? Figure that one out.


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


>


 :laugh:


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> You doTuning folks want to offer a unique feature? Figure that one out.


 Ummmmmm. Figure out how to make it plug n play? Can't. 

DoTuning offers tunes with all map sensors. OE, S3/R20, and TDI. 

My old setup ran a TDI map. I was able to read up to 43.x psi.


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

P.S. 

FT should do a collabo with DT on that 2.5 turbo kit you're designing. Just saying.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

:wave:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> P.S.
> 
> FT should do a collabo with DT on that 2.5 turbo kit you're designing. Just saying.


 United Motorsports has dibs there, I'm afraid. But before anyone gets too excited about a forced-induction 2.5, I need to test its suitability. The whole notion could be a bad one. So for now I say let's stick to what's working. And is the F23T working? Anyone got some logs for me?


----------



## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Not from me. Hit 100F yesterday. 








Should be high of 70F on Thursday though. :thumbup:


----------



## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

I knew putting another k03 in my car was going to bite me. I have coolant leaking from the housing. Bad seal?


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

lol wat 

prob dat copper washer


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Noticed BPY base files have been added to Eurodyne server. Can now pick stage 1, 2, f23, and k04, and some have s3 injectors. yay.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Pure.Dope said:


> Noticed BPY base files have been added to Eurodyne server. Can now pick stage 1, 2, f23, and k04, and some have s3 injectors. yay.


 Good. Get all that ish straight (including more tuning tips) before I saddle up. Depending on You, Tapp, Doug, A3 and the other early adopters to get me straight. Turbo goes on in two weeks, maestro hopefully by this time next month or sooner. Y'all have already done wonders for the ground work! Thanks in advance!


Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Good. Get all that ish straight (including more tuning tips) before I saddle up. Depending on You, Tapp, Doug, A3 and the other early adopters to get me straight. Turbo goes on in two weeks, maestro hopefully by this time next month or sooner. Y'all have already done wonders for the ground work! Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


 Doug is a great help. You won't be sorry.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> lol wat
> 
> prob dat copper washer


 That's what I thought too, but I cleaned everything off and see that it's not coming from any of the lines. It slowly starts to get wet right at one of the seams where...I don't know how to explain this. I'll start a new thread with a pic.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Mark Swanson of EFI Express has sent me some logs from dyno tuning an FSI customer car on Maestro. Firstly, here are the specs for the car:

F23T hybrid turbo
Eurodyne Maestro
S3 Injectors
Golf R FMIC
BSH Throttle pipe
CAI
3'' TBE
Runner Flap Delete


And here are the logs from Mark's tuning via Eurodyne Maestro:











As you can see, Mark has defined a file that strikes a good balance between aggressiveness and engine safety. Boost onset is quick, but perfectly controlled. That Golf R intercooler is starting to fray at the seams a bit at the top end, so he has carefully shaped the ignition advance and boost requests for minimal timing pull. Overall, this is a great set of data taken from tuning for a "real world" car. 

As for the dyno:











Mark has done a terrific job of skating that 300 wheel torque boundary. As for the top end number, I'm unfamiliar with this dyno and don't know how its readings compare with those from DynoJets. But my impression of the logs and the even power delivery evidenced in the dyno sheet strike me as a great example of what's possible with this turbo.

Congratulations to EFI Express for turning around such a solid performance with zero hiccups.

:beer:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

logs look good Doug, any reason why the S3's were used? just curious.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Wow great numbers, and I am local to EFI express too.

I'm curious how the cold starts are with the RFD.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

GTI2Slow said:


> Wow great numbers, and I am local to EFI express too.
> 
> I'm curious how the cold starts are with the RFD.


On my F23 RFD set up, it's very smooth, OEM like.


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Yeah, still waiting for someone who has a RFD setup where it gets cold (new england/peoples republik of canada) to chime in.

Would an intake manifold provide any benifits?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A3Performance said:


> ...any reason why the S3's were used? just curious.


The car owner had installed S3 injectors for their previous K03 software. I'd never heard of that before, but since they were already there Eurodyne used their S3 injector file when the turbo was swapped. By the way, here's the Lambda:


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## GRIMwagon (Aug 12, 2008)

Good stuff in here! Mark definitely did an amazing job taming this beast. She's a ripper for sure! :thumbup:

PS: That hardware kit you sent absolutely made the turbo install easier. Thanks Doug!


----------



## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Can we assume the injector duty cycle is lower with the S3 injectors? Air temps are cooler here today so I'm hoping to get you guys some S3 K04 logs if the rain quits. :banghead:


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

First: A *HUGE *thank you to: Doug @ FT, Mark @ EFI Express, Chris @ Eurodyne and my good friends Nick and Peter with DAS Auto in Portsmouth, NH.

I was away for 2 weeks while the install and tuning went down, all of these guys came together to deliver AMAZING results, I couldn't imagine having been in better hands. Doug always made himself available ( which was a lot  ). Marc with EFI Express is simply a genius, if you can ever find an excuse to visit his shop, I highly recommend it, dude's got like dozen unicorns there, coupe quarto's, a 6 spd swapped rs6, turbo 5cyls etc etc. Nick and Peter were the reason I was able to get some sleep, knowing my GLI was in their hands made the whole ordeal efficient, accurate and possible in the first place. Once again, many many thanks.

The car is a ****ing blast, its completely silly, I have been hammering it since I picked it up on Friday and still laugh hysterically every time, something about breaking loose while merging onto the highway hasn't gotten old yet 

It spikes so hard, having full boost at ~3k and holding strong well into the higher RPMs is a beautiful thing, Marc did an amazing job, power delivery is so smooth and strong, while being very safe.

I couldn't be more pleased, Doug really struck a happy medium between big turbo power and small turbo spool up. I have been saying a lot that it is like an axe murder.

On a less exciting but practical note, I saw about 32 mpg on my ~50 mile cruise back to Boston last night, pretty sweet considering I have to start saving for new tires 

Fire away with any question, I'm happy to lend any insight I can. :beer::beer:


----------



## GRIMwagon (Aug 12, 2008)

Thanks for the props buddy! Peter and i both really appreciate all your business!! :thumbup:


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

alexj87 said:


> First: A *HUGE *thank you to: Doug @ FT, Mark @ EFI Express, Chris @ Eurodyne and my good friends Nick and Peter with DAS Auto in Portsmouth, NH.
> 
> I was away for 2 weeks while the install and tuning went down, all of these guys came together to deliver AMAZING results, I couldn't imagine having been in better hands. Doug always made himself available ( which was a lot  ). Marc with EFI Express is simply a genius, if you can ever find an excuse to visit his shop, I highly recommend it, dude's got like dozen unicorns there, coupe quarto's, a 6 spd swapped rs6, turbo 5cyls etc etc. Nick and Peter were the reason I was able to get some sleep, knowing my GLI was in their hands made the whole ordeal efficient, accurate and possible in the first place. Once again, many many thanks.
> 
> ...


Now that's a review... glad to hear the results.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Brokenparts said:


> Now that's a review... glad to hear the results.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


:thumbup: i'll be driving it everyday, so there will be plenty of miles to report on.

also, i know the validity has been debated but my gauge shows me spiking to 28psi and holding at 25


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GRIMwagon said:


> That hardware kit you sent absolutely made the turbo install easier. Thanks Doug!


Good to know that. It comes to us courtesy of HSTuning, who offered to pull together these nice, complete install kits. For the time being we're going to continue offering them for free with the turbos. Once more tuning results get in, and the turbo is better "established", we'll make the installation kit a $50 option.


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

alexj87 said:


> :thumbup: i'll be driving it everyday, so there will be plenty of miles to report on.
> 
> also, i know the validity has been debated but my gauge shows me spiking to 28psi and holding at 25


:thumbup: In for updates. when I ge a f23t I wil likely be taking it to them as well.


----------



## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Got some logs and will post them up tomorrow when I have the chance to graph them. Airflow, boost, injection timing, and rail pressure. :thumbup:


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

When is someone going to start a 1/4 mile et and trap thread?


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

ROH ECHT said:


> When is someone going to start a 1/4 mile et and trap thread?



X2


----------



## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

I'm happier with dyno charts. Maybe all FT23 owners can't drive.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

[email protected] said:


>


I'm likely going to EFI express once I pony up the dough and get a F23T so this is awesome, thanks for the logs/data! :beer::beer::beer: I was unaware that there was a quality tuner here in the NH boondocks.

I am looking at this and comparing it to a K04, it seems full power/boost comes on a few hundred RPM later and if this car was equipped with a better intercooler it should hold strong until redline where the K04 would start to choke at like 5500+RPM. Also the wastegate seems less aggressive so EGT's should be way lower right? Am I guesstimating this correctly?

Why stop at 300WHP/WTQ? Was ther some limitation or is my understanding of what power is safe for a stock motor a little optimistic? Is 320 or even 350WHP realistically achievable?


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> I'm likely going to EFI express once I pony up the dough and get a F23T so this is awesome, thanks for the logs/data! :beer::beer::beer: I was unaware that there was a quality tuner here in the NH boondocks.
> 
> I am looking at this and comparing it to a K04, it seems full power/boost comes on a few hundred RPM later and if this car was equipped with a better intercooler it should hold strong until redline where the K04 would start to choke at like 5500+RPM. Also the wastegate seems less aggressive so EGT's should be way lower right? Am I guesstimating this correctly?
> 
> Why stop at 300WHP/WTQ? Was ther some limitation or is my understanding of what power is safe for a stock motor a little optimistic? Is 320 or even 350WHP realistically achievable?


Yea dude, marc is great, he is very smart, has tons of experience and a fully equipped facility. you should know that NH is deep into VAG tuning though. 

The Golf R intercooler is having a tough time holding up at the higher RPM range, and was actually getting me close to detonation, marc had to call down the requested boost, which actually didnt have an negative effect power figures, nonetheless, the APR unit has been on my mind. 

As for power figures compared to what else is out there, it has more do with the dyno, they all use slightly different formulas to determine power and tq, so its kinda ambiguous. ie people say to add 15-20% to dynojet to match mustang dyno figures, the only real way to read power is with trap speed and the weight (re: ROH ECHT & Brokenparts) also, in my case there is very little timing pull, which is nice to know while driving it everyday


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

I think I'd prefer bettering my 1/4 et's over knowing I have less timing pull in my DD. I am considering the F23T, but not based on what any dyno says. I only pulled 275whp on a dyno-jet but it ran 12.8 @ 112 mph. So I am really hoping to see some 1/4 et's without any power additives from these F23T's before I decide for myself whether or not I would go with another K04 or F23T when/if this K04 ever gives out(and it will ;p).

*Please click on my dragtimes link in my SIG as many times as you like and help to win a gopro*...appreciated :wave:


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

GTI2Slow said:


> I'm likely going to EFI express once I pony up the dough and get a F23T so this is awesome, thanks for the logs/data! :beer::beer::beer: I was unaware that there was a quality tuner here in the NH boondocks.
> 
> I am looking at this and comparing it to a K04, it seems full power/boost comes on a few hundred RPM later and if this car was equipped with a better intercooler it should hold strong until redline where the K04 would start to choke at like 5500+RPM. Also the wastegate seems less aggressive so EGT's should be way lower right? Am I guesstimating this correctly?
> 
> Why stop at 300WHP/WTQ? Was ther some limitation or is my understanding of what power is safe for a stock motor a little optimistic? * Is 320 or even 350WHP realistically achievable?*


Oh hell yes...but rare. From the beginning back in '06 and '07 APR and others were getting there...and no limitations. But I think you mean with a K04 or hybrid of it, yes? Even a K04 will reach those numbers and run great.

*Please click on my dragtimes link in my SIG as many times as you like and help to win a gopro*...appreciated :wave:


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

alexj87 said:


> Yea dude, marc is great, he is very smart, has tons of experience and a fully equipped facility. you should know that NH is deep into VAG tuning though.


Awesome, I am a semi-new NH resident so its always good to find new things.

My major concern was that outside of the 'big' tuners support would be difficult or too far away. Specifically for climate related changes to a tune. But if theres a great shop within 30 minutes of me that really helps.


----------



## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

*Better late than never!*

As promised here is a 3rd gear pull (I prefer 4th but you guys are using 3rd as your standard) of my S3 K04 setup. Air temp was 81F and humidity was 94%.
































As you can see I'm experiencing two issues; low rail pressure during build up (need to log low pressure to see if that's the culprit) and for some reason the engine backs off hard at ~6K for an instant for an unknown reason. It backs off so hard that it results in a spike in [excess] rail pressure. There appears to be a spike in injector cycle right before the back off.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

SmithersSP said:


> As promised here is a 3rd gear pull (I prefer 4th but you guys are using 3rd as your standard) of my S3 K04 setup. Air temp was 81F and humidity was 94%.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well for starters your requested boost is only like 17psi at 6000. I'd change that first and see where that gets you..


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

SmithersSP said:


> As promised here is a 3rd gear pull...
> 
> As you can see I'm experiencing two issues; low rail pressure during build up...


I'm no expert (yet), but I'd say your fuel rail pressure is very good. The pump mirrors requests perfectly up until high in the rev range, where they all tend to exceed request. But the pressure is consistent and very strong.



SmithersSP said:


> and for some reason the engine backs off hard at ~6K for an instant for an unknown reason. It backs off so hard that it results in a spike in [excess] rail pressure. There appears to be a spike in injector cycle right before the back off.


What is your N75 boost duty through that troublesome spot? Can you log 118?


----------



## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Sure can. As far as I can tell the Ecu is sensing a problem and don't boost. I'm sure the n75 will show the WG opening wide at that point. I can hear it. I'll also investigate EGT and timing.


----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

So after fine tuning my Maestro tune with the help of Doug, I have made a beastly tune.

Here is the resulting log. 










Besides A3performance, I think I was the first one to have this turbo installed. I talked with a couple guys via PM about my results, and made a few posts, but nothing substantial. No logs, etc. 

So I am basically done tuning at this point. I will continue to fine tune it as needed, because I enjoy playing around with Maestro and seeing what changes I can make happen. It's a great tool - and coming from someone with ZERO ECU tuning background, I don't find the basics to be very difficult (If you are starting with a base file, obviously).

Overall, this car is a complete monster at this point. 

It spools ridiculously quick. The turbine sounds like a semi-truck. I can't get enough of the audible sexiness my car now whistles at me press the accelerator. I can easily pass on the freeway in 6th gear, no questions asked.... but where's the fun in that when I can downshift to 4th and scream forward at over 25psi.

The car is rock solid reliable. I have put 4,000 HARD miles on the car already. No, not because I drive like a jack-a$$ but because I have done many logs, a lot of experimentation, and I like to have fun with it. 

Anyways. Doug has been a great resource. Seriously I hassle him almost daily for information and he always is quick to respond. I couldn't be happier with the setup. It's stupid fast. 

My boost increases all the way to redline. My gauge says 29-30psi at redline. Take that for what its worth. But its a new gauge and has always been fairly accurate. I will be using a 3bar MAP soon.

Anyways. Enough rambling. Good fun, for not too much $$


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

xtravbx said:


> Overall, this car is a complete monster at this point.
> 
> It spools ridiculously quick. The turbine sounds like a semi-truck. I can't get enough of the audible sexiness my car now whistles at me press the accelerator. I can easily pass on the freeway in 6th gear, no questions asked.... but where's the fun in that when I can downshift to 4th and scream forward at over 25psi.
> 
> ...


Awesome man, and yes, Doug is HUGE help, couldn't agree more on the sound part. I live in a city with an extensive tunnel network - needless to say - its fun. 

What intercooler are running?


----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

alexj87 said:


> Awesome man, and yes, Doug is HUGE help, couldn't agree more on the sound part. I live in a city with an extensive tunnel network - needless to say - its fun.
> 
> What intercooler are running?


My setup is

Autotech HPFP
Golf R Intercooler
42DD 3" DP w/ 200 cell cat
Neuspeed P-FLO
BSH PCV Blockoff
R8 Coils

And then whatever non-motor related junk I have done.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

SmithersSP said:


> As far as I can tell the Ecu is sensing a problem and don't boost. I'm sure the n75 will show the WG opening wide at that point. *I can hear it*. I'll also investigate EGT and timing.


Since you're running a K04 (and not the ever-lovin' F23T) you must have a diverter valve relocation kit, yes? You should check that. Because when you "hear" boost being released, that's the diverter valve doing that.


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

xtravbx said:


> So after fine tuning my Maestro tune with the help of Doug, I have made a beastly tune.
> 
> Here is the resulting log.


You aren't hitting requested boost until almost 4300RPM, is that expected?


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Interesting that the boost request is 2550 (nearly) throughout the log. I looked at some old logs and it seems that my request has incremental steps to full boost but I suppose at wot it doesnt really matter what the request is so long as it more than the actual during acceleration (just a guess).


----------



## choochb5 (Sep 7, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> So after fine tuning my Maestro tune with the help of Doug, I have made a beastly tune.
> 
> Here is the resulting log.
> 
> ...



That's awesome. Good timing, decent intake temps. That Golf R intercooler seems to do a decent job. Amazing the F23T can hold boost like that all the way to redline. 264 g/s at redline is no joke for the size of the turbo. Injection time looks like it's getting up there though. Any concern with that? Could use a little more rail pressure?



GTI2Slow said:


> You aren't hitting requested boost until almost 4300RPM, is that expected?


Looks like the N75 has been capped. Guessing torque control?


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

choochb5 said:


> Looks like the N75 has been capped. Guessing torque control?


Looks like its functional, assuming the boos duty column is the N75 duty cycle.


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

xtravbx you're crazy man w/ that 30 psi 

I like you have been fine tuning and getting it really dialed. I've scaled my boost back to about 23psi though.

On a side note installed raxles today. They are nice.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GTI2Slow said:


> You aren't hitting requested boost until almost 4300RPM, is that expected?


Yes. That's how he defined the file. Look at the boost duties between 3000 rpms and 4000. They are very low. That puts a muzzle on the boost onset, giving a more refined power curve versus the slam-in-the-back that's possible on a more aggressive onset. Also, there's zero boost spike. Always a good thing on stock rods.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> xtravbx you're crazy man w/ that 30 psi
> 
> I like you have been fine tuning and getting it really dialed. I've scaled my boost back to about 23psi though.
> 
> On a side note installed raxles today. They are nice.



Hahaha I know. I'm gonna get a Prius V or whatever the compact cheap Prius is called as a backup car shortly and for commutes to work.  I may dial it back to 26ish.

264 g/s on the MAF. I haven't seen anyone report more airflow than that.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Yall got me all excited now lol. I drop my car off monday for the turbo install and when I come back off vacation I'll place my order for the Maestro (waiting for that and the file transactions is going to try my patience too lol). I'm banking on that Maestro discount still applying  I reckon for several weeks I'll be running bone stock tuning (having the shop remove the APR tune and encryption because I don't want to deal with that later just to go a few weeks on MBC controlled stage 2+).

My mods are IDENTICLE to xtravbx which is what's really exciting me. You've convinced me the set up can work well with the right tweaking.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Yall got me all excited now lol. I drop my car off monday for the turbo install and when I come back off vacation I'll place my order for the Maestro (waiting for that and the file transactions is going to try my patience too lol). I'm banking on that Maestro discount still applying  I reckon for several weeks I'll be running bone stock tuning (having the shop remove the APR tune and encryption because I don't want to deal with that later just to go a few weeks on MBC controlled stage 2+).
> 
> My mods are IDENTICLE to xtravbx which is what's really exciting me. You've convinced me the set up can work well with the right tweaking.


:thumbup:


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Here's a 3rd gear log I got off my friend's APR tuned Golf R earlier today:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Here are xtravbx's airflows for comparison:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Here are xtravbx's airflows for comparison:


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

My F23T is ordered. Can wait to get this thing in!


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

What is the g/s limit of the stock MAF sensor?


----------



## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

Whats up with that Exhaust manifold on the Facebook page???

Looks pretty great...is that for the F23T?










fingers crossed it is


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

that's damn sexy.


----------



## kermitz (Mar 17, 2013)

Brokenparts said:


> that's damn sexy.


Yes it is...I'd buy one.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Guys - that's a manifold for the original F23 suited to the 20v 1.8T engine. YOUR turbo comes with an integrated manifold that's proving to be better than anything I've yet dreamed up for the older cars. Ever since we dynoed our first FSI I have been struggling to figure out how to come even close on the 1.8T platform. Maybe this pretty, pretty tubular manifold will help.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Rub-ISH said:


> Whats up with that Exhaust manifold on the Facebook page???
> 
> Looks pretty great...is that for the F23T?
> 
> ...


Relentless V4 1.8t k04 manifold, Copy of Spiderwerx unit from Germany

Not seen one ever on a car or tested yet


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

badger5 said:


> ...Copy of Spiderwerx unit from Germany
> 
> Not seen one ever on a car or tested yet


Bill - Let's tread carefully about whether or not this manifold is a copy of something made by a now-defunct company some while ago. Honestly, it matters very little either way. Plus it's not even for the 2.0FSI.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Bill - Let's tread carefully about whether or not this manifold is a copy of something made by a now-defunct company some while ago. Honestly, it matters very little either way. Plus it's not even for the 2.0FSI.


nothing carefull to tread.. It is what it is.
I supplied the pictures of the spiderworx originally, which got sent to relentless.. 

lol

anyhows... tfsi goodness....


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Tread Lightly - W.W.

lol


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

With this car if it's not one thing it's the other. Get it back from FFE after installing my RFD kit. Go to Waterfest and get rear ended by some lady. Car gets fixed it rains the moment i pull out of the body shop. Drive the car now, all of a sudden I got a fuel leak coming from the low side of the HPFP. I replace the hose and tighten the barb'd fitting. Leak goes away but comes back a day later this time pissing fuel everywhere. FML.


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

a good samaritan came through and a replacement fitting is on its way. So from the looks of it, next weekend a quick ride to FFE to get some updated dyno pulls


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> a good samaritan came through and a replacement fitting is on its way. So from the looks of it, next weekend a quick ride to FFE to get some updated dyno pulls


Good to hear. Looking forward to those dyno pulls!


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

quick question re the airflow logs..
What intakes are they running and do you notice the offset from std MAF tube shape to the round after market ones? (I have)


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Just to be clear, who currently has off the shelf tunes for the FT?
I don't want to go balls out with Maestro, as I am a newb.
I would like to just get it flashed like I have in the past with APR and REVO. Or is that not being supported yet


----------



## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

derZeck said:


> Just to be clear, who currently has off the shelf tunes for the FT?
> I don't want to go balls out with Maestro, as I am a newb.
> I would like to just get it flashed like I have in the past with APR and REVO. Or is that not being supported yet


None, but people have found ways to make their stage 2 tunes to work to get them by. Also there is .dotuning which does tunes for a reasonable price.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Guys - that's a manifold for the original F23 suited to the 20v 1.8T engine. YOUR turbo comes with an integrated manifold that's proving to be better than anything I've yet dreamed up for the older cars. Ever since we dynoed our first FSI I have been struggling to figure out how to come even close on the 1.8T platform. Maybe this pretty, pretty tubular manifold will help.


These newer motors heads flow better then the 1.8ts but you already know that!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

derZeck said:


> Just to be clear, who currently has off the shelf tunes for the FT?
> I don't want to go balls out with Maestro, as I am a newb.
> I would like to just get it flashed like I have in the past with APR and REVO. Or is that not being supported yet


Please contact [email protected] or [email protected] 


I'm currently flashed by their software and it's phenomenal !!!


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> Please contact [email protected] or [email protected]
> 
> 
> I'm currently flashed by their software and it's phenomenal !!!


looks like dotuning.com is no more or they forgot to pay for their domain subscription


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

skyrolla89 said:


> None, but people have found ways to make their stage 2 tunes to work to get them by. Also there is .dotuning which does tunes for a reasonable price.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


I am stage 1 REVO, so if I could make a REVO stage 2 or 2+ work I would rather save the $ and just pay the $50 upgrade for the tune


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

derZeck said:


> I am stage 1 REVO, so if I could make a REVO stage 2 or 2+ work I would rather save the $ and just pay the $50 upgrade for the tune


it's not that easy trust me. You need to tune appropriately to make this work right on the F23. Have you e-mailed Taylor or John?


----------



## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

derZeck said:


> I am stage 1 REVO, so if I could make a REVO stage 2 or 2+ work I would rather save the $ and just pay the $50 upgrade for the tune


No, simple as that. You could do it with the manual boost controller but that's not worth the effort over stage 2+ IMO (this is probably okay if your doing the turbo as a replacement but not really for upgrade purposes). I can tell you first hand on any k03 tune you will overboost like crazy...even bone stock tune. I'm not talking about a few psi either, I'm talking jumping to 20psi on a stock tune that's requesting 10psi in some situations...when it comes on it comes on fast and not where the k03 tune is expecting it to. Whole lot of overboost induced limp mode...but if you insist on not getting a tune a manual boost controller is a MUST. Use the $50 you would have spent on upgrading tune stage on the manual boost controller.


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> No, simple as that. You could do it with the manual boost controller but that's not worth the effort over stage 2+ IMO (this is probably okay if your doing the turbo as a replacement but not really for upgrade purposes). I can tell you first hand on any k03 tune you will overboost like crazy...even bone stock tune. I'm not talking about a few psi either, I'm talking jumping to 20psi on a stock tune that's requesting 10psi in some situations...when it comes on it comes on fast and not where the k03 tune is expecting it to. Whole lot of overboost induced limp mode...but if you insist on not getting a tune a manual boost controller is a MUST. Use the $50 you would have spent on upgrading tune stage on the manual boost controller.


already have the manual boost controller coming with the turbo. I am primarily replacing the turbo due to bad bearings in my K03, but with the ability to upgrade performance in the not to distant future. I need to upgrade my HPFP before I do anything, but plan on it soon.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> it's not that easy trust me. You need to tune appropriately to make this work right on the F23. Have you e-mailed Taylor or John?


yeah, no reply yet


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

derZeck said:


> yeah, no reply yet


Patience, .dotuning is a 2 man operation. Their track record speaks for itself.


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I inquired to .dotuning a month back. Took them a few days to reply, but reply they did. And very helpful.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Pure.Dope said:


> I inquired to .dotuning a month back. Took them a few days to reply, but reply they did. And very helpful.


I inquired early Thursday morning and heard back multiple times within the next hour (must have been a slow morning). They'll have my money before Monday 

I still want the maestro too lol. I want the ability to adjust boost,timing,duty cycles etc but ultimately I know I'm not qualified or patient enough to dial it in right. Now if I had another daily driver I'd be all over it.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

any word on GIAC?


----------



## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Any idea of what their tune will be priced at?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> any word on GIAC?





SmithersSP said:


> Any idea of what their tune will be priced at?



I will check in with them late this week. There's a big Southern California meet happening this weekend, so I'm sure they're preoccupied. But AU Tuning still wants to get a file out of them for both the FSI and TSI.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

is the ceramic coating worth it?


----------



## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Brokenparts said:


> is the ceramic coating worth it?


No 

Honestly don't know. I'd be skeptical about a coating keeping that kind of heat inside the manifold and cast iron is obviously durable enough for oem so I don't think its worth the wait or money unless you just want it to look real pretty.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

well.. Finally pulled the trigger. Just ordered my Frankenturbo. Going to be running it on Driver Motorsport software/tune. I will be sure to put it on the dyno (there is a dyno literally right across the street here at work) and post some results once I get it dialed in. 

Order # 960.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

any of you guys that installed the f23t yourself know of any "out of the ordinary tools" or any "got to have tools" that make the install job easier/quicker? I plan on doing the install in my garage and without a lift so any tips or tools to make it easier would be much appreciated.


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Just triple square sockets. I can't think of anything else.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Thanks for responding. Are these the style you are talking about or should is another type preferred?








.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> Has anyone confirmed the F23T is actually any bigger than a stock K04?


This user is a ghost account for Gonzo Tuning, an outfit that's been accused of hacking other companies' intellectual property and who also sells a hybrid turbo knock-off of our product for the 1.8T. I have to request that people here not provide answers to his questions. 

Thanks


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> This user is a ghost account for Gonzo Tuning, an outfit that's been accused of hacking other companies' intellectual property and who also sells a hybrid turbo knock-off of our product for the 1.8T. I have to request that people here not provide answers to his questions.
> 
> Thanks


Noted.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## rambag3 (May 17, 2006)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> Has anyone confirmed the F23T is actually any bigger than a stock K04?


No, it needs to be at least 3 times as large, what is this a turbo for ants!?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> This user is a ghost account for Gonzo Tuning, an outfit that's been accused of hacking other companies' intellectual property and who also sells a hybrid turbo knock-off of our product for the 1.8T. I have to request that people here not provide answers to his questions.
> 
> Thanks


So why mention their company name (somebody with a MKIV who wouldn't before is now going to look and compare)? I would have just posted read thread lol


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

2283: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56
F23T: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> I can't even ask a question without getting torn apart. Jeesh opcorn:
> 
> 2283: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56
> F23T: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56


Lets Do This


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## ohDirka (Jul 13, 2012)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> I can't even ask a question without getting torn apart. Jeesh opcorn:
> 
> 2283: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56
> F23T: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56


Why ask the question if you already knew the answer?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Because you ALL are being scammed by Doug. His only answer is to say lies about Johnny and the fact he thinks the GTT is a knockoff is hilarious! It out performs the F23 in Bolt on form. Doug has no room to say anyone stole ideas. Doug got his idea from scroll products, gpop shop and many others who make k04 hybrids from Borg Warner turbos. All Doug did was copy their product and have the Chinese make a cheaper version. I can actually call Monday and have 10 identical F23 turbos sent to my office for the grand total of $4,000 with insured expedited shipping.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> I can't even ask a question without getting torn apart. Jeesh opcorn:
> 
> 2283: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56
> F23T: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56


0064?

Since it took this long to start trolling (obviously not concerned about us being "scammed") I assume your getting ready to launch your MKV version. You can start your own thread...or can you.

This thread is actually for people interested in the Frankenturbo. As for the price...I think its safe to say we've all know where the turbo's come from and how much a 10 lot or more of Chinese k04s cost. There's more to a purchase than the wholesale price. We are aware he makes money from sales.


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> I can't even ask a question without getting torn apart. Jeesh opcorn:
> 
> 2283: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56
> F23T: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56




Aren't you missing the whole point of the f23t?

Am I not right in thinking that the f23t is a direct replacement for the k03 tfsi turbo which is a different turbo to the k04, and thus instead of fitting a k04 turbo in place of the k03 and having to modify other stuff to get it to fit you can just fit a f23t and get k04 power! 

So regardless if it has the same turbine/ comp wheel setup it's still a better turbo to fit than a k04 and all the associated mods needed on a k03 based tfsi..


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

DMVDUB said:


> Because you ALL are being scammed by Doug. His only answer is to say lies about Johnny and the fact he thinks the GTT is a knockoff is hilarious! It out performs the F23 in Bolt on form. Doug has no room to say anyone stole ideas. Doug got his idea from scroll products, gpop shop and many others who make k04 hybrids from Borg Warner turbos. All Doug did was copy their product and have the Chinese make a cheaper version. I can actually call Monday and have 10 identical F23 turbos sent to my office for the grand total of $4,000 with insured expedited shipping.


How's it a scam? I'm confused... He's selling a turbo of higher spec than the original!

You seriously trying to convey that a k04 and k03 are identical turbos? Because if you are then you are sadly misinformed.... Again from what I see the f23t is a k03 hybrid... Which happens to be of k04 spec.. So what!? Hardly a scam when the k04 ISN'T a direct bolt onto the k03 cars!


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Beachbuggy said:


> How's it a scam? I'm confused... He's selling a turbo of higher spec than the original!
> 
> You seriously trying to convey that a k04 and k03 are identical turbos? Because if you are then you are sadly misinformed.... Again from what I see the f23t is a k03 hybrid... Which happens to be of k04 spec.. So what!? Hardly a scam when the k04 ISN'T a direct bolt onto the k03 cars!


That's not what he's saying. He's implying the k04 2283 has the same size compressor and turbine wheel. Why he thinks anybody cares is beyond me. a) the results speak for themselves b) the compressor maps are right on the website c) S3/Golf Rs don't have k04-2283s they have k04-0064 d) the results speak for themselves e) the results speak for themselves and f) the results speak for themselves.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> 0064?
> 
> Since it took this long to start trolling (obviously not concerned about us being "scammed") I assume your getting ready to launch your MKV version. You can start your own thread...or can you.
> 
> This thread is actually for people interested in the Frankenturbo. As for the price...I think its safe to say we've all know where the turbo's come from and how much a 10 lot or more of Chinese k04s cost. There's more to a purchase than the wholesale price. We are aware he makes money from sales.


Yes the 064 has a 2283 compressor wheel.

If you call that trolling then I'm really sorry for you because that's not real trolling. I asked a simple question and Doug comes out with the attacks like clockwork.



Beachbuggy said:


> Aren't you missing the whole point of the f23t?
> 
> Am I not right in thinking that the f23t is a direct replacement for the k03 tfsi turbo which is a different turbo to the k04, and thus instead of fitting a k04 turbo in place of the k03 and having to modify other stuff to get it to fit you can just fit a f23t and get k04 power!
> 
> So regardless if it has the same turbine/ comp wheel setup it's still a better turbo to fit than a k04 and all the associated mods needed on a k03 based tfsi..


Having a K04 in a K03 frame is not a good idea when the K04 pretty much bolts on. Look at the K0R-GT for instance. While a great product, its being limited by the stock K03 housing.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

I am about to go get scammed for 75 miles, it's gonna be great.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> Yes the 064 has a 2283 compressor wheel.
> .


what about turbine wheel and housing specs?

Since myself and others have been looking for concrete information about that turbo for YEARS before Frankenturbo for this application even existed and NO ONE could provide might as well make yourself useful and give us full specs on that turbo for the first time.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

I just gave out wheel specs for the K04-064. 

BTW wheel sizes on the F23T was just a guess on my part. I really don't know which is why I asked.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> That's not what he's saying. He's implying the k04 2283 has the same size compressor and turbine wheel. Why he thinks anybody cares is beyond me. a) the results speak for themselves b) the compressor maps are right on the website c) S3/Golf Rs don't have k04-2283s they have k04-0064 d) the results speak for themselves e) the results speak for themselves and f) the results speak for themselves.


Do you know what 2283 stands for?

From Frankenturbo's own website:








http://www.frankenturbo.com/new/slappy_dunbar_01032011.html

Thus if you punch in the wheel specs I gave out earlier for the S3 K04 (aka K04-064) which was "cw 46.4*56"

46.4mm / 56mm = 0.8285714285714286 or 83% to round things off.

And to make sure the 22 part is correct, if we punch in 56mm and convert that into inches, you get 2.20472


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Dude... start your own thread.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> what about turbine wheel and housing specs?
> 
> Since myself and others have been looking for concrete information about that turbo for YEARS before Frankenturbo for this application even existed and NO ONE could provide might as well make yourself useful and give us full specs on that turbo for the first time.





JohnnyAlpaca said:


> I just gave out wheel specs for the K04-064.
> 
> BTW wheel sizes on the F23T was just a guess on my part. I really don't know which is why I asked.





JohnnyAlpaca said:


> Actually starting Monday I will be able to.
> 
> 
> Do you know what 2283 stands for?
> ...





Brokenparts said:


> Dude... start your own thread.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


He answered a question presented in the thread; which was certainly ON TOPIC.

Do you have anything useful to add; besides, "like your opinion man"?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> I can't even ask a question without getting torn apart. Jeesh opcorn:
> 
> 2283: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56
> F23T: tw 44.5*50，cw 46.4*56





Rod Ratio said:


> Lets Do This





DMVDUB said:


> Because you ALL are being scammed by Doug. His only answer is to say lies about Johnny and the fact he thinks the GTT is a knockoff is hilarious! It out performs the F23 in Bolt on form. Doug has no room to say anyone stole ideas. Doug got his idea from scroll products, gpop shop and many others who make k04 hybrids from Borg Warner turbos. All Doug did was copy their product and have the Chinese make a cheaper version. I can actually call Monday and have 10 identical F23 turbos sent to my office for the grand total of $4,000 with insured expedited shipping.





DMVDUB said:


> The "scam" refers to Doug making claims about the GTT. I will leave all of this alone for now. Beachbuggy if you would like to talk privately join VWSport or VWKotex and I'll speak with you there. eace:


...and now, just as I anticipated, we have the other ghost accounts, mustered into the fray by Gonzales. This is how Gonzo Tuning operates. They hide behind fake user names and use that anonymity to post destructively about other companies. The strategy is to snarl informative threads focused on their competition, turning off the participants.

In the last months the VAG community has seen a number of exciting new tuning options become available. We have Epic Tuning, whose principals have served the 2.7T engine market and are now moving into the newer platforms with great success. In another example, many readers of this thread are excited to see the results of A3Performance's car on .doTuning's MAFless software. I share that enthusiasm and expect solid things from them. Even more recently, Driver Motorsport has hung out its shingle. The owner there learned his craft at APR Tuning, and I have been impressed by his maturity and skill.

To all of these new tuners, I welcome your fresh ideas and am looking forward to see what you can bring to the VAG community. But you should take note of the cautionary tale that is Gonzo Tuning. Instead of following their path, I encourage you to:

Behave professionally. Communicate properly. Service your customers. Act ethically. 

These business values still matter. Yes, it's a rough world in public forums, but the customers you hope to gain will always boil things down to whether their money is being spent with someone reputable. Someone competent. 

As always, my door is open to any customer who is looking for a recommended tuning partner for our products. We can offer a strong list from which to choose. And I like to think that's a benefit of operating your business successfully. Others want to be a part of it.

dh


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> Thanks for responding. Are these the style you are talking about or should is another type preferred?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Naw brother you need the socket type. 3/8 will work fine.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Cool... I appreciate the heads up.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Here is what I know:

1. F23t has proven dyno results
2. Pretty much bolts on
3. Great bang for buck power
4. Doug has shown maturity 
5. Doug has shown great customer service and commitment to his customers.
6. Turbo comes with a great warranty. 
7. Doug can make you laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbbDqhVG06Y

That was enough for me. He didnt have to go around bad mouthing people to get my business. Proven results and great customer service goes a long way in my eyes. 

I hope this ends... and we can get back to regular business in this thread.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Brokenparts said:


> Here is what I know:
> 
> 1. F23t has proven dyno results
> 2. Pretty much bolts on
> ...


Dig around; his customer service is spotty at best, threads about failures, wastegate actuator issues, etc are always deleted.

Believe what you wish, but you do NOT control the dialogue on this forum sir. Fanboys can love all they want; while the rest of us know the whole story about Doug Harper, and Frankenturbo. 

Guys have pushed the limits, and made great power utilizing his products. This is no question. What is in question is his character, and the fact that he's failed to address issues with his product, and always passes the buck, OR skirts the issue entirely.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> This user is a ghost account for Gonzo Tuning, an outfit that's been accused of hacking other companies' intellectual property and who also sells a hybrid turbo knock-off of our product for the 1.8T. I have to request that people here not provide answers to his questions. Thanks


Doug you know damn well these aren't "ghost accounts". These are people that you have dealt with, and pissed off personally. So saying that they are all the same account buy Gonzo is a flat out lie. You know better than that. You know DMVDUB for instance is an ex-potential customer that you burned on a deal to give him a military discount. You've dealt with him (poorly I should add), so to say that he's Gonzo.. And you know Gonzo because he's called you out on your being shady about your whacky actuators and the difficulty the he has (Gonzo) in tuning FT equipped cars. You always (even in personal emails) complain about Gonzos ability to tune cars. So you know these aren't ghost accounts. So that accusation has been dealt with. The claim that Gonzo sells a "knock-off" of your turbo is crap too. If thats the case, your turbo is a "knock-off" of a few other companies. Nobody is reinventing the wheel here. Not to mention both of you guys have your turbos made in the same place. In a free, open market. I also think that when Gonzos billet wheel GTTs start posting numbers, its gonna set a new benchmark. 


Brokenparts said:


> any of you guys that installed the f23t yourself know of any "out of the ordinary tools" or any "got to have tools" that make the install job easier/quicker? I plan on doing the install in my garage and without a lift so any tips or tools to make it easier would be much appreciated.


I HIGHLY suggest a long extension hex ball for the coolant banjo bolt. Super bitch to get to without it.



02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> 0064?
> Since it took this long to start trolling (*obviously not concerned about us being "scammed"*) I assume your getting ready to launch your MKV version. You can start your own thread...or can you.
> *This thread is actually for people interested in the Frankenturbo. *As for the price...I think its safe to say we've all know where the turbo's come from and how much a 10 lot or more of Chinese k04s cost. There's more to a purchase than the wholesale price. We are aware he makes money from sales.


 (In order)
*Plesase learn from the 1.8t community. 
*Then wouldn't you want to hear from people that have dealt with DH?
In my experience, Doug made my build a nightmare. Took me over a year to get it sorted. The reason Doug and Gonzo have beef is because Doug was having WG problems on his turbos. But rather than admit it and deal with it, he would deny it and have people chase their tales until they gave up on their build. I was ALMOST one of them. Or he would blame it on tuners like Gonzo, and say he wasn't capable of tuning. Meanwhile, Doug would be making adjustments to his design to fix issues. Which is great in theory, but makes you look like a shady prick when your not open and honest about it.



02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> what about turbine wheel and housing specs?
> Since myself and others have been looking for concrete information about that turbo for YEARS before Frankenturbo for this application even existed and NO ONE could provide might as well make yourself useful and give us full specs on that turbo for the first time.


Try to keep up.



JohnnyAlpaca said:


> *Actually starting Monday I will be able to.*
> Do you know what 2283 stands for?
> From Frankenturbo's own website:
> 
> ...


Welcome back:beer:



Rod Ratio said:


> He answered a question presented in the thread; which was certainly ON TOPIC.
> Do you have anything useful to add; besides, "like your opinion man"?


Agreed. Lets hope these guys do their homework on FT



[email protected] said:


> ...and now, just as I anticipated, we have the other ghost accounts, mustered into the fray by Gonzales. This is how Gonzo Tuning operates. They hide behind fake user names and use that anonymity to post destructively about other companies. The strategy is to snarl informative threads focused on their competition, turning off the participants.


That's some pretty slanderous BS right there. There's no way you actually believe that, since you KNOW it's not true. Your cover ups of people having problems has been epic. If the 2.0t community had any idea how many threads you've had deleted because of bad press, they would be telling you to kick rocks. 



Pure.Dope said:


> You gonzo dudes are some beta ****gots srs. Start your own thread. We all know you're up to no good here. We don't authorize you to post in our threads and anything further will be ignored.


Don't believe the hype dude. Doug is spinning you guys a web of :bs:
I've had personal dealings with him, and have a tune from Gonzo. If I were to compare my user experience with both, there is no comparison. Doug has paid to cover up all his problems. Gonzo has the ability to get tons of reliable power out of the 1.8t. My E85/F23 file is a monster. I couldn't be happier. My F23 on the other hand (2nd one/1st died of WG failure) has been a long road of troubleshooting Dougs failures. But after junking Dougs actuator, were finally making real power. Doug should be ashamed of himself for this Roswell coverup. 



JohnnyAlpaca said:


> Uhuh.
> Ask a question and share some technical info and you get attacked. Awesome.


For a second this was looking like the 1.8t section.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Na... I was shopping around for those socket type triple squares. Got a link for a good online store? I think I'll just buy a set.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Amazon is where I got my set. Was around $20 I think.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Lets bring it down a notch or 2. The disrespectful route will just make this worse. I've made my point and I'll leave it at that.


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## Abe Froman (Mar 11, 1999)

Let's get this thread back on topic, please. Debate is fine, but any more name-calling and it'll have to be closed.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> Has anyone confirmed the F23T is actually any bigger than a stock K04?


If you weren't a forever aloner you'd know any woman would tell you bigger isn't always better. This is also true for the f23t. It will effortlessly flow 25psi at redline, pushing more grams per second than any k04. Dont care if its smaller, same size, or bigger than a k04. I, unlike you, value real world numbers over talk.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Pure.Dope said:


> If you weren't a forever aloner you'd know any woman would tell you bigger isn't always better. This is also true for the f23t. It will effortlessly flow 25psi at redline, pushing more grams per second than any k04. Dont care if its smaller, same size, or bigger than a k04. I, unlike you, value real world numbers over talk.




you have NO idea what you're talking about. There's around 5 people on this thread that have done more testing and research than anyone. Oh, and Alpaca is one of them. Trust me when I say, you could only dream of knowing the things he does (about all VAG cars). Those of us who build 1.8t's that will walk a 2.0T FT car know our sh..tuff, you should listen instead of barking insults and whatnot.eace:

We have been in this game MUCH longer than you, Doug Harper and FT. Listen from experience. You're talking to a guy with knowledge that no other tuning company has, the guy with the fastest "stock size" turbo car, a guy who's had an A4/S4 monster that has no comparison, and a guy who's had more than one 9 and 11 second car (albeit DSM's and Ford ). Why not listen to experience for once.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Let's get this thread back on topic, please. Debate is fine, but any more name-calling and it'll have to be closed.





DMVDUB said:


> you have NO idea what you're talking about. There's around 5 people on this thread that have done more testing and research than anyone.


Rather than see a valuable discussion thread closed, my recommendation is unchanged from earlier on. Those 5 people Gonzo Tuning is referring to? Here is how followers of this forum can treat them:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Rather than see a valuable discussion thread closed, my recommendation is unchanged from earlier on. Those 5 people Gonzo Tuning is referring to? Here is how followers of this forum can treat them:


More invaluable advice from Doug. What a joke. :facepalm:

If you spent half as much time dealing with your products issues as you do running your mouth, you wouldn't be getting corn-holed in every one of your threads. Just throw up some more metallurgy results to distract everyone from the truth... Again.. opcorn:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

warranty225cpe said:


> More invaluable advice from Doug. What a joke. :facepalm:
> 
> If you spent half as much time dealing with your products issues as you do running your mouth, you wouldn't be getting corn-holed in every one of your threads. Just throw up some more metallurgy results to distract everyone from the truth... Again.. opcorn:



This thread is about an aftermarket turbo for a the 2.0 FSI motor.

This thread has zero to do with building 1.8T's, who has more skill or knowledge in any given subject. It is specific to one product and supporting that product.

Please refrain from unnecessary banter that is meaningless to this thread. Thank you.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Pure.Dope said:


> If you weren't a forever aloner you'd know any woman would tell you bigger isn't always better. This is also true for the f23t. It will effortlessly flow 25psi at redline, pushing more grams per second than any k04. Dont care if its smaller, same size, or bigger than a k04. I, unlike you, value real world numbers over talk.


If you really believe higher boost and g/sec alone will net you more power then I hav sum bad nuwz.

A k04-064 will hold 25psi if you want it to as well. Doesn't mean anything unless you are making back to back dynos with cars with same exact mods on the same dyno or 1/4 mile times. That's real data.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

xtravbx said:


> This thread is about an aftermarket turbo for a the 2.0 FSI motor.
> 
> This thread has zero to do with building 1.8T's, who has more skill or knowledge in any given subject. It is specific to one product and supporting that product.
> 
> Please refrain from unnecessary banter that is meaningless to this thread. Thank you.


What you're missing is, there's people who have dealt with Frankenturbo (doesn't matter what platform) and are giving their experience. Warranty225 can give you some VERY valuable information. I suggest you listen to him. He has nothing to gain or lose by trying to help you. He runs a FT and his problems weren't only with the product, but it's seller as well. You want to know who you're really dealing with? Ask him. 

I gain ZERO from dissuading your thoughts of buying a FT product. I suggest spending the extra money and going to Arnold at Pagparts. You'll spend the same amount in the long run and have a REAL kit with the BEST support in the VAG community! 

As was noted before, think about the guy you want to buy from... He KNOWS who I am. He lied to me, offered a military discount and more. Then retracted it because...he's a liar. He makes up stories about this as well, to be clear Gonzo Tuning didn't exist at the time (he was still perfecting his tune) so he can't blame that. I was one of Dougs biggest supporters, look in google cache you'll see I was all on board for FT. It wasn't until he was rude to me, lied to me, covered up failures, etc. until I decided the truth needs to be known. Now he hides behind VMG to keep his failures a secret. I can guarantee he begs that I be banned constantly. 

Truthfully, he should be banned for the atrocities he's brought to the VAG community. They've all been hyped and covered because he pays for all bad press to be removed. THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! He pays EVERY forum so his failures stay hidden. If he was no longer paying this site and others the truth would come out. 

He is afraid of Gonzo because the Gonzo Tuning turbos are made along side the tune to work like stock. No rigging of anything, like FT. Doug is also scared because he can't make a turbo that performs as well as Gonzo Tuning's turbo. 

I don't care what you guys buy, I suggest BT. You've been warned. Do as you will, but I strongly suggest saving a little more and buying a BT kit. You can run as much or as little as you want with a BT turbo. There's no reason not to.:wave:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

DMVDUB, fuch these clowns if they don't want to listen. I've done my part in trying to educate them. If they want to be ignorant, fuch em. I've got better things to do with my time. Next time they get good advice, maybe they will listen. Meh.., let em learn the hard way. They deserve what they get for being such jackasses.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

While I can appreciate the effort to warn us or bring light to the situation, it's hard to distinguish fact from fiction from the way you are presenting the information. If you are truly trying to help the community then I would suggest a different tactic to do so. 

I do really hope that you are wrong as I have just purchased a f23t.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Brokenparts said:


> While I can appreciate the effort to warn us or bring light to the situation, it's hard to distinguish fact from fiction from the way you are presenting the information. If you are truly trying to help the community then I would suggest a different tactic to do so.
> 
> I do really hope that you are wrong as I have just purchased a f23t.


I wish you nothing but success with your build. If mine would have had better results, you would never have even heard of Warranty225cpe. :beer:eace::wave:


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

I just got scammed so hard with my little turbo breaking loose in 4th


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## judeisnotobscure (Feb 20, 2009)

*tuning options*

Hey guys, 
My name is Josh and I work as tuner for Epic Tuning Group (ETG).
I have been working with Doug @ Ft for quite some time now. 
I have tuned a couple of F23 setups on the 2.0t fsi. 
I'm currently finishing up work on a mk5 gti which put down 280whp/290wtq (Mustang Dyno) on a mild pump gas file using stock injectors and upgraded HPFP.
We have decided to push the base file a little further and run a little more boost.

The turbo has nice boost onset and delivers very early torque. Very nice for daily street driving imo.

Facebook


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

alexj87 said:


> I just got scammed so hard with my little turbo breaking loose in 4th


Hey buddy can you elaborate a bit more about your issue? Is this w/ f23t?


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Hey buddy can you elaborate a bit more about your issue? Is this w/ f23t?


Yes, it's this terrible thing, I press down on the accelerator and my wheels just start spinning and smoke goes everywhere


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

alexj87 said:


> Yes, it's this terrible thing, I press down on the accelerator and my wheels just start spinning and smoke goes everywhere


OMG bro that must be hard to deal with. All that raw power uncontained?!!


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> OMG bro that must be hard to deal with. All that raw power uncontained?!!


It is difficult, thank you for understanding. With counseling, and time, I do believe I can make a full recovery.


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

thats funny, my 600 hp gti doesnt break loose in 4th... lol.


----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

mrbikle said:


> thats funny, my 600 hp gti doesnt break loose in 4th... lol.



bikle - we cant all afford baller suspension, tires, etc. =P Little bits at a time.


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

mrbikle said:


> thats funny, my 600 hp gti doesnt break loose in 4th... lol.


Lol, I thought the same thing :screwy:


----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

warranty225cpe said:


> Lol, I thought the same thing :screwy:


I thought you said you had better things to do with your time, then hang out in this thread? Apparently not?


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

xtravbx said:


> I thought you said you had better things to do with your time, then hang out in this thread? Apparently not?


You provide comedy. Keep it up and Ill be in every thread.


----------



## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

What the hell is going on here now?!?! I do believe there are x amount of companies out there to provide different same product while being inconclusive as to who or what is better.

God created perfect and he took it away. You can't argue perfection while being imperfect. That's just human nature as it exists today and as it has since history can be dated back.

I do say good luck in your future endeavors and good luck with big turbo builds as that is your route. Leave these people to the route they have chosen. Whether it be the easy short road or the hard long road.

Using Tapatalk 2


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

filthyillness said:


> What the hell is going on here now?!?! I do believe there are x amount of companies out there to provide different same product while being inconclusive as to who or what is better.
> 
> God created perfect and he took it away. You can't argue perfection while being imperfect. That's just human nature as it exists today and as it has since history can be dated back.
> 
> ...


 You seem confused. Nobody said anything about a BT build. Talk in SPAM much?


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)




----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

warranty225cpe said:


> You provide comedy. Keep it up and Ill be in every thread.



It's been said if you can make a lady laugh, she's yours.

I have lots of ladies.


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

So, what I want to know is....

What plugs are people running? Some how a step colder NGK Copper plug ended up in my car, and I don't think that is best for any turbo setup.

i see stock is bkr7eix, should I go back to stock IR plugs or think a step colder.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

I thought competition was a good thing? No? Typically when there is competition the end result is the buyer gets a better product at a cheaper(sometimes) price. So why is it that Doug always runs around screaming that Gonzo is a competitor? So what? Businesses have competitors all the time and people don't go crying about it. They buck up and put work in to make a better product or offer a better service. I also have to laugh at the "ghost" account story. Most of the "ghost" account holders have been around longer than Frankenturbo. And lol at "We don't authorize you to post in our threads and anything further will be ignored."...way to try and stifle the 1st amendment, you want my gun too? By the way, I run a franketurbo and have first hand experience. I also went with a tuning company recommended by Doug in the beginning and spent a good chunk of change on said tune for said turbo. After being unhappy with the tune I spent *more* money and had Gonzo tune my car and the difference was unbelievable( so unbelievable I tipped the man extra cabbage). However Doug will run around posting everywhere that Gonzo can't tune a car to save his life... meanwhile everyone who switches from a major tuning company to Gonzo says the same thing I do no matter if its stock, hybrid or BT. So how is it Doug says he can't tune but people with actual experience with Gonzo say quite the opposite? Yet to this day he will still recommend that same tune to people like its the best thing since slice bread. Anyway believe the hype if you want but Gonzo isn't the one running around bad mouthing people in threads and spreading disinformation. Also this is a public forum and we can do and say what we want as long as its within the rules of the forum. If you don't wan't a dialog then go play in the sandbox by yourself...:wave:


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

^^^Well put, and with that; I believe it's time for us to vacate this thread.


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Edit: never mind


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Im sure this thread is headed to the black hole, this is unfortunate because up to post 1474 there was a good deal of information.

Mod, please prune instead of just blowing this all to oblivion.


----------



## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

GTI2Slow said:


> Im sure this thread is headed to the black hole, this is unfortunate because up to post 1474 there was a good deal of information.


Who are you to say this will get blackholed?


----------



## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

from a side line spectator with no skin in the game...There has been valuable information shared by all parties...Just sayin.


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Rub-ISH said:


> from a side line spectator with no skin in the game...There has been valuable information shared by all parties...Just sayin.


There has, and that is indeed the point of message boards like this, right?

I believe that this information will remain for others to read, and that potential hybrid buyers will discover that there are other options available to them. 

www.gonzotuning.com


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Before Gonzo Tuning, FrankenTurbo had competitors. The difference was that those competitors didn't indulge in childish behavior on public forums.

I agree that these individuals' posts provide valuable information: an insight into the character of Gonzo Tuning. Like I said earlier, if any readers here are perturbed by posts from those accounts, you have the means to ignore what they say. And even if you don't turn their accounts to "ignore", they offer nothing new. It's same rehash of unsubstantiated accusations they've been making for a while now. It's gotten boring, really.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

derZeck said:


> So, what I want to know is....
> 
> What plugs are people running? Some how a step colder NGK Copper plug ended up in my car, and I don't think that is best for any turbo setup.
> 
> i see stock is bkr7eix, should I go back to stock IR plugs or think a step colder.


You can run 8- or even as cold as 9-series plugs if that's your preference. But if running over 20psi of boost you should gap them down to 0.021-0.024. This will eliminate misfires that can happen from the spark being blown out. 

Also: a new set of coil packs is a good preventative maintenance thing.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> You can run 8- or even as cold as 9-series plugs if that's your preference. But if running over 20psi of boost you should gap them down to 0.021-0.024. This will eliminate misfires that can happen from the spark being blown out.
> 
> Also: a new set of coil packs is a good preventative maintenance thing.


Aren't 9's on the cold side ?

I am currently running 8's but wondering what difference if any the 9's would
make.

I saw a HUGE difference going from 7's to 8's but am not sure
how 8's to 9's will be.


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

mrbikle said:


> thats funny, my 600 hp gti doesnt break loose in 4th... lol.


because its still waiting to spool?


:thumbup:


----------



## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Wait, Gonzo barely has any visible support for the MK5 platform per their website...? Does this mean they have more experience with 1.8t turning, don't have any turbo upgrade kits available for the fsi or tsi (f23t can be fitted to either engine) and its about the most cost effected product in rhw line up for the averafe income person?

How in the hell can you hate on this? One persons experience does not define everything in its entirety.

Those kids need to be not get butt hurt.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> You can run 8- or even as cold as 9-series plugs if that's your preference. But if running over 20psi of boost you should gap them down to 0.021-0.024. This will eliminate misfires that can happen from the spark being blown out.
> 
> Also: a new set of coil packs is a good preventative maintenance thing.


Already have new red top coils in hand. OE plug is a 7, so should I go to an 8 to be safe?


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

derZeck said:


> Already have new red top coils in hand. OE plug is a 7, so should I go to an 8 to be safe?


I've been pushing 7's since the first day I had my F23, zero issues here.


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Before Gonzo Tuning, FrankenTurbo had competitors. The difference was that those competitors didn't indulge in childish behavior on public forums.
> 
> I agree that these individuals' posts provide valuable information: an insight into the character of Gonzo Tuning. Like I said earlier, if any readers here are perturbed by posts from those accounts, you have the means to ignore what they say. And even if you don't turn their accounts to "ignore", they offer nothing new. It's same rehash of unsubstantiated accusations they've been making for a while now. It's gotten boring, really.


I guess if you repeat yourself enough...

You, are, low, sir


----------



## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

"Ghost accounts" bro


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Careful Doug. The *staff* at Gonzotuning will take away your birthday. None of us really exist were all one big ghost account.

:vampire: Wooogie-Booogie!


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> Careful Doug. The *staph* at Gonzotuning will take away your birthday. None of us really exist were all one big ghost account.
> 
> :vampire: Wooogie-Booogie!


 FTFY:beer:


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Rod Ratio said:


> FTFY:beer:


lol, I really want to leave this thread. But Im having too much fun :laugh:

Subscribed for metallurgy results.. opcorn:


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

derZeck said:


> Already have new red top coils in hand. OE plug is a 7, so should I go to an 8 to be safe?


 
Try the BKR8E-11. gapped at 21-25. Open it up from 21 gradually until your spark blows out at high/peak boost. Then back it down a notch.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> This user is a ghost account for Gonzo Tuning, an outfit that's been *accused* of *hacking other companies' intellectual property* and who *also sells a hybrid turbo knock-off* of our product for the 1.8T. I have to request that people here not provide answers to his questions.
> 
> Thanks





[email protected] said:


> ...and now, just as I anticipated, we have the other ghost accounts, mustered into the fray by Gonzales. This is how Gonzo Tuning operates. They hide behind fake user names and use that anonymity to post destructively about other companies. The strategy is to snarl informative threads focused on their competition, turning off the participants.
> 
> In the last months the VAG community has seen a number of exciting new tuning options become available. We have Epic Tuning, whose principals have served the 2.7T engine market and are now moving into the newer platforms with great success. In another example, many readers of this thread are excited to see the results of A3Performance's car on .doTuning's MAFless software. I share that enthusiasm and expect solid things from them. Even more recently, Driver Motorsport has hung out its shingle. The owner there learned his craft at APR Tuning, and I have been impressed by his maturity and skill.
> 
> ...





[email protected] said:


> Before Gonzo Tuning, FrankenTurbo had competitors. The difference was that those competitors didn't indulge in childish behavior on public forums.
> 
> I agree that these individuals' posts provide valuable information: an insight into the character of Gonzo Tuning. Like I said earlier, if any readers here are perturbed by posts from those accounts, you have the means to ignore what they say. And even if you don't turn their accounts to "ignore", they offer nothing new. It's same rehash of unsubstantiated accusations they've been making for a while now. It's gotten boring, really.


 The only one making unsubstantiated accusations is you. Thread has been saved for possible future legal action based on grounds of slander.

Please refrain from posting your opinions about Gonzo Tuning.

Thank you.


----------



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

filthyillness said:


> Wait, Gonzo barely has any visible support for the MK5 platform per their website...? Does this mean they have more experience with 1.8t turning, don't have any turbo upgrade kits available for the fsi or tsi (f23t can be fitted to either engine) and its about the most cost effected product in rhw line up for the averafe income person?
> 
> How in the hell can you hate on this? One persons experience does not define everything in its entirety.
> 
> ...


Just to be clear from a spectators perspective Gonzo isn't the one running around being but hurt, its Frankenturbo. Also the 1.8t community has more experince dealing with FT than you guys do *period.* Its also much more than just one persons experience. Plenty of people have posted about issues and poor support on said issues. By the way we all pushed Doug's products and gave him good reviews until people started having problems and he started acted shady and running amuck on Vortex talking gibberish about others. Like I said, keep thinking what you want but we have more experience dealing with this company and its products than you guys do and there is nothing you can say to change that. Anyway you kids shouldn't get so butt hurt...:wave:


----------



## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

So far, people using THIS product, the one this thread is about, have been happy with the product and the service. 

If this other product is better, people will buy it. It's that simple. 

I get great service at places my friends say are terrible. Who knows. 

NEXT!


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Tutti57 said:


> So far, people using THIS product, the one this thread is about, have been happy with the product and the service.
> 
> If this other product is better, people will buy it. It's that simple.
> 
> ...


Nobody is trying to sell another product in this thread.. Just the truth; at no cost..


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

Twopnt016v said:


> Just to be clear from a spectators perspective Gonzo isn't the one running around being but hurt, its Frankenturbo. Also the 1.8t community has more experince dealing with FT than you guys do *period.* Its also much more than just one persons experience. Plenty of people have posted about issues and poor support on said issues. By the way we all pushed Doug's products and gave him good reviews until people started having problems and he started acted shady and running amuck on Vortex talking gibberish about others. Like I said, keep thinking what you want but we have more experience dealing with this company and its products than you guys do and there is nothing you can say to change that. Anyway you kids shouldn't get so butt hurt...:wave:





warranty225cpe said:


> Nobody is trying to sell another product in this thread.. Just the truth; at no cost..


Guys,

We appreciate the support, and positive feedback from our valued customers. That said, lets move on from this thread; as both sides perspectives have been well represented. :beer:


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Guys,
> 
> We appreciate the support, and positive feedback from our valued customers. That said, lets move on from this thread; as both sides perspectives have been well represented. :beer:


Done


----------



## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Came in here to see if anyone had upgraded their low pressure fueling system. Was not expecting all this...


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

What the hell happened to this thread?? All i see is nothing but hating and trolling! If you don't like the Frankenturbo then keep it moving, simple as that! What kind of name is Gonzo anyway?? **** outta here! :sly:


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

A3Performance said:


> What the hell happened to this thread?? All i see is nothing but hating and trolling! If you don't like the Frankenturbo then keep it moving, simple as that! What kind of name is Gonzo anyway?? **** outta here! :sly:


The truth about Frankenturbo happened to this thread. You dont like it.., YOU get the **** outta here. :wave:


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

You fellas have voiced your warning and we have noted it. Unless there is any new information that is technically relevant, I would kindly ask to stop interfering with the thread even if the posts are truly well intentioned. There is a new thread for Gonzo tuning and I would appreciate posting information regarding them in that thread. I'm happy to follow along there rather than sift through some of the banter that has gone on in this thread. I've been following this thread for quite some time would like it to stay technically relevant to the product and not to either sides "dirty laundry."

This is not a threat or even a request... just someone politely asking. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Brokenparts said:


> You fellas have voiced your warning and we have noted it. Unless there is any new information that is technically relevant, I would kindly ask to stop interfering with the thread even if the posts are truly well intentioned. There is a new thread for Gonzo tuning and I would appreciate posting information regarding them in that thread. I'm happy to follow along there rather than sift through some of the banter that has gone on in this thread. I've been following this thread for quite some time would like it to stay technically relevant to the product and not to either sides "dirty laundry."
> 
> This is not a threat or even a request... just someone politely asking.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


Noted. Some of your people need to smarten up. Its hard to walk away when people keep running their mouths about hings they know nothing about.


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

warranty225cpe said:


> Noted. Some of your people need to smarten up. Its hard to walk away when people keep running their mouths about hings they know nothing about.


Take the sand out of your vagina. Nobody gives two ****ing ****s about your opinions. Go eat your bag of dicks elsewhere!


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

A3Performance said:


> Take the sand out of your vagina. Nobody gives two ****ing ****s about your opinions. Go eat your bag of dicks elsewhere!


Looks like I've found a home. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'll be around for a long time 
:wave:


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

warranty225cpe said:


> Looks like I've found a home. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'll be around for a long time
> :wave:


Not a problem troll, I'm barely on this forum..


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

A3Performance said:


> I've been pushing 7's since the first day I had my F23, zero issues here.





warranty225cpe said:


> Try the BKR8E-11. gapped at 21-25. Open it up from 21 gradually until your spark blows out at high/peak boost. Then back it down a notch.


Thanks!


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

A3Performance said:


> Not a problem troll, I'm barely on this forum..


 Says my new best friend 
Txt me so we can talk about stretched tires, skinny jeans, and your lack of "adult level reasoning". Your out of your league kid. Recognize and piss-off. 


derZeck said:


> Thanks!


No prob. Gotta start with the easy stuff first. No need to make things more complicated by chasing "ghosts".


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Any word from GIAC about their progress?

So far A3Performance's review and the infor from the guy who was tuned at EFI express looked really promising. :thumbup:


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

GTI2Slow said:


> Any word from GIAC about their progress?
> 
> So far A3Performance's review and the infor from the guy who was tuned at EFI express looked really promising. :thumbup:


I gave up on GIAC. I exchanged a few emails with Thomas but then never heard back from him. 

I decided to give Driver Motorsport a try. I bought their 2+ tune to run until my f23t gets here and gets installed. My programmer is on its way as we speak. My initial impression is very good. I've had very good correspondence with him. I'll do a review of the 2+ (with w/m) and of the f23t when I get it installed.


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> Any word from GIAC about their progress?
> 
> So far A3Performance's review and the infor from the guy who was tuned at EFI express looked really promising. :thumbup:


I have been talking to Taylor from doTuning. He has been very helpful in working with me for a tune. I am just going to sell my REVO ecu and buy or trade for a stock ECU for him to flash.


----------



## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

derZeck said:


> I have been talking to Taylor from doTuning. He has been very helpful in working with me for a tune. I am just going to sell my REVO ecu and buy or trade for a stock ECU for him to flash.


The best route!


----------



## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

I am leaning towards DM right now, EFI express is local as well. Whatever I go with my biggest point right now would be continued support in the event that somebody closes shop.

I have S3 injectors and since the manifold will be off it would make sense to do a RFD install at that time.


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Brokenparts said:


> I gave up on GIAC. I exchanged a few emails with Thomas but then never heard back from him.
> 
> I decided to give Driver Motorsport a try. I bought their 2+ tune to run until my f23t gets here and gets installed. My programmer is on its way as we speak. My initial impression is very good. I've had very good correspondence with him. I'll do a review of the 2+ (with w/m) and of the f23t when I get it installed.


Are you planning on E85 in the future? TBH the F23 is the perfect turbo for it. That and no need for WM with E85


----------



## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

warranty225cpe said:


> Are you planning on E85 in the future? TBH the F23 is the perfect turbo for it. That and no need for WM with E85


You'll need at rs4 injectors to do that I would think.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> I am leaning towards DM right now, EFI express is local as well. Whatever I go with my biggest point right now would be continued support in the event that somebody closes shop.
> 
> I have S3 injectors and since the manifold will be off it would make sense to do a RFD install at that time.


Have you been to Mark's shop yet? Going there pretty much eliminated any doubt i could imagine.

And he has already done basically the exact same thing with my GLI, also I am in touch with Chris Tapp at Eurodyne to code out the CEL for the RFD.

one other thing I am gonna PM you about.


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

skyrolla89 said:


> You'll need at rs4 injectors to do that I would think.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


Im not too familiar with RS4 injectors. But there are a few out there that are a great match. My Bosch EV14s are a great option. I only ask because E85 is not too far away once you get the F23 going.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> Are you planning on E85 in the future? TBH the F23 is the perfect turbo for it. That and no need for WM with E85


No plans for E85 for a couple reasons...

1. Up here in the NW E85 is extremely scarce. Its actually easier to find Methanol than E85.

2. The need for bigger injectors. E85 requires a TON of flow. I've heard of "gel" problems with trying to run E85 if the fueling isnt sufficient.


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

warranty225cpe said:


> Are you planning on E85 in the future? TBH the F23 is the perfect turbo for it. That and no need for WM with E85


this has my interest, already running s3's... im gonna have to keep my eyes peeled for e85 availability, im in Boston tho, and we are like the epicenter for new alternative ****


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Brokenparts said:


> No plans for E85 for a couple reasons...
> 1. Up here in the NW E85 is extremely scarce. Its actually easier to find Methanol than E85.
> 2. The need for bigger injectors. E85 requires a TON of flow. I've heard of "gel" problems with trying to run E85 if the fueling isnt sufficient.


 Yeah, not having many options for E85 stations sucks. Florida just recently up its game as far as stations. The best way to do it is to get your ECU tuned with a switchable file. Mine for instance, I can pull up at the pump and switch files on the fly. So theres no chance of ending up somewhere stranded. And if you luck out one day and find an E85 pump, its just a matter of holding gas and break, and switching to your E85 file. Pretty sweet. And its probably the biggest reason that I decided to do it. 


alexj87 said:


> this has my interest, already running s3's... im gonna have to keep my eyes peeled for e85 availability, im in Boston tho, and we are like the epicenter for new alternative ****


 Like stated above. You can tune your ECU for all of the above, and just switch when you get lucky and find a station.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> Yeah, not having many options for E85 stations sucks. Florida just recently up its game as far as stations. The best way to do it is to get your ECU tuned with a switchable file. Mine for instance, I can pull up at the pump and switch files on the fly. So theres no chance of ending up somewhere stranded. And if you luck out one day and find an E85 pump, its just a matter of holding gas and break, and switching to your E85 file. Pretty sweet. And its probably the biggest reason that I decided to do it.
> 
> Like stated above. You can tune your ECU for all of the above, and just switch when you get lucky and find a station.


Its actually an option through Driver Motorsport. I chose not to do this because E85 isnt really even an option around here.


----------



## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

New jersey has 2 e85 stations which are both located in the hood.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Brokenparts said:


> Its actually an option through Driver Motorsport. I chose not to do this because E85 isnt really even an option around here.


But you can have them add the program later right? Seeing as how gas stations slowly bring in E85 pumps as gas prices go up, that could change. It really is a HUGE difference running corn. More than worth the extra effort.



skyrolla89 said:


> New jersey has 2 e85 stations which are both located in the hood.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


You guys need to download a decent E85 locator ap, Thats how I found the closest one to me. 30psi all day :thumbup:
Corn :heart:


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Nothing even close. I googled and downloaded two apps. If we did get some stations around I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Brokenparts said:


> Nothing even close. I googled and downloaded two apps. If we did get some stations around I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


I feel your pain. It took a while to get them down here.


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

we have e85 at most stations here, but we have cornfields EVERYWHERE


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

derZeck said:


> we have e85 at most stations here, but we have cornfields EVERYWHERE


We have no e85 stations here , but we have HIPSTERS EVERYWHERE.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

So e85 better used with f23t and supporting upgrades plus tune or can we use e85 withe tune, upgraded hpfp, and larger injectors with stock turbo? Is it even with it on stock turbo?

Also, a link to Driver Motorsport? 

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Link for Driver Motorsport:

http://www.drivermotorsport.com/K04 & Frankenturbo 2.0T FSI.html

I dont think a file for e85 and the f23t has been developed yet. I would not advise it for the bpy.


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

filthyillness said:


> So e85 better used with f23t and supporting upgrades plus tune or can we use e85 withe tune, upgraded hpfp, and larger injectors with stock turbo? Is it even with it on stock turbo?
> 
> Also, a link to Driver Motorsport?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


 Yes, you could run pump, injectors, tune. But an E85 tune is basically a "stage III" (hate that term). But with more fueling added. And timing advanced to take advantage of the no knock properties of E85. With that being said, would you run a "stage III" tune on the car without the supporting mods? Probably not. Madmax has been auto crossing his E85 TT and it's a monster with the stock ko4. 


Brokenparts said:


> Link for Driver Motorsport:
> 
> http://www.drivermotorsport.com/K04 & Frankenturbo 2.0T FSI.html
> 
> I dont think a file for e85 and the f23t has been developed yet not would I advise it for the bpy.


 Like I said above. It's just a matter of adjusting the fueling of an aggressive ecu tune. But since Gonzo did my tune for the F23 we also have an E85, 93, regular file. Switched by holding gas and brake. So I guess you could say someone has made an e85 file for the f23. His name is Gonzo. And fwiw, I was never impressed with the 1.8t with an ape tune and a ko4. E85 and 30psi.. A WHOLE different animal:laugh:


----------



## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Does the low pressure pump need to be changed, or any other fuel supplier really, to use e85?


----------



## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Sooo now that the storm has passed what have people been doing on the low pressure side? My stock pump clearly isn't cutting the mustard. I'm torn between an inline pump between the LPFP and the filter/regulator or a TTRS pump/sensor swap like what GOLFRS did. $200 vs $500.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

:wave::vampire:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

alexj87 said:


> :wave::vampire:


lots of boost

is that a good thing?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Can we get a good sampling of regular "go to" tunes before we worry about E85 etc. E85 is pointless on the F23T without rods. Ability to handle tq is already the limiting factor on pump gas so what point would it be to do E85 known specifically for a healthy dose of torque.

At this point there is .dotuning (two samples both running well that I'm aware of) and a select very few who can tune the Maestro appropriately (See this thread). Still waiting for someone to buy, flash and review DM's tune since there is only one k04/S3 injector tune review (no shortage of tunes for that combo), still waiting on GIAC (I see in another MK6 forum they have began TSI testing) and anybody else who's going to give it a go. For my part since NJDubber went MAFless (and GTIRaider isn't sure), I've requested .dotuning to do mine with the MAF functioning. Since I have the typical Neuspeed P-Flo (long term fuel trims 2%) we will see what .do can do. Should be sometime next week. Should mention I could have had the tune already if I wanted to utilize a loaner ECU from them but since the Flashloader eta wasn't that far out I chose to wait for it.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

alexj87 said:


> :wave::vampire:












DM tune with the Golf R MAP?


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> DM tune with the Golf R MAP?


Maestro with EFI Express - you should see how little timing pull there is as well :thumbup: thats marks handy work

Stock MAP sensor


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Can we get a good sampling of regular "go to" tunes before we worry about E85 etc. E85 is pointless on the F23T without rods. Ability to handle tq is already the limiting factor on pump gas so what point would it be to do E85 known specifically for a healthy dose of torque.
> 
> At this point there is .dotuning (two samples both running well that I'm aware of) and a select very few who can tune the Maestro appropriately (See this thread). Still waiting for someone to buy, flash and review DM's tune since there is only one k04/S3 injector tune review (no shortage of tunes for that combo), still waiting on GIAC (I see in another MK6 forum they have began TSI testing) and anybody else who's going to give it a go. For my part since NJDubber went MAFless (and GTIRaider isn't sure), I've requested .dotuning to do mine with the MAF functioning. Since I have the typical Neuspeed P-Flo (long term fuel trims 2%) we will see what .do can do. Should be sometime next week. Should mention I could have had the tune already if I wanted to utilize a loaner ECU from them but since the Flashloader eta wasn't that far out I chose to wait for it.


I have bought DM's flashload/tune and the f23t. I will review soon.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

You should send me your maestro file. pleasessssseeeeee.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

alexj87 said:


> Maestro with EFI Express - you should see how little timing pull there is as well :thumbup: thats marks handy work
> 
> Stock MAP sensor


That is outside of the stock MAP sensors range.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

GTI2Slow said:


> That is outside of the stock MAP sensors range.


If the logs are great (specified timing/air-fuel etc targets met) and the car runs great do we really care if it's boosting beyond what being read? 

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> That is outside of the stock MAP sensors range.


 Irrelevant.


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

SmithersSP said:


> Sooo now that the storm has passed what have people been doing on the low pressure side? My stock pump clearly isn't cutting the mustard. I'm torn between an inline pump between the LPFP and the filter/regulator or a TTRS pump/sensor swap like what GOLFRS did. $200 vs $500.


INTANK PUMP HAS BEEN GREAT FOR ME...Just have to swap of the fuel level sender from your old pump. 

I just have the GIAC High Out put k04 file and it has adapted very very well. I used to get this unpredictable flutter due to various reasons...mainly the shape of my intake! The intank pump has really settled down that issue. I'm getting a 3inch intake and a tune specifically scaled to that size maf as my next option...Should be interesting


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## gb21914 (Apr 7, 2011)

Keep up the development Doug. An interesting product to be sure. We will be talking in the near future I think...

These guys may be knowledgeable, but frankly I don't dig the attitude. 

If I wanted that crap I'd have bought a Honda, and would be on one of those forums.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Irrelevant.


as is your post
... and mine
opps


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

badger5 said:


> as is your post
> ... and mine
> opps


:sly:


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

doing my turbo install today, anyone have torque specs?


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Rub-ISH said:


> INTANK PUMP HAS BEEN GREAT FOR ME...Just have to swap of the fuel level sender from your old pump.
> 
> I just have the GIAC High Out put k04 file and it has adapted very very well. I used to get this unpredictable flutter due to various reasons...mainly the shape of my intake! The intank pump has really settled down that issue. I'm getting a 3inch intake and a tune specifically scaled to that size maf as my next option...Should be interesting


And I know you'd love to provide me with a DIY guide for the sensor swap right?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm not going past the MAP sensor until I get a 3 bar. Plus I need a new charge pipe, IC hoses, and intake.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> I'm not going past the MAP sensor until I get a 3 bar. Plus I need a new charge pipe, IC hoses, and intake.


gonna need a new boost gauge too


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Gonna need a new turbo too. Cause my F23T just blew. Hardcore, unmistakable, dentist drill sound. FOR. THE. LOSS. Putting in my old K03 as we speak.


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

Pure.Dope said:


> Gonna need a new turbo too. Cause my F23T just blew. Hardcore, unmistakable, dentist drill sound. FOR. THE. LOSS. Putting in my old K03 as we speak.


Ouch!


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> Gonna need a new turbo too. Cause my F23T just blew. Hardcore, unmistakable, dentist drill sound. FOR. THE. LOSS. Putting in my old K03 as we speak.


Ouch.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Emmm...Ouch?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Yeah it's probably my fault. When I first got it I may have set boost too high and overspun it. Not really sure but I'm gonna have a replacement sent to me and go from there.


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

GolfRS said:


> Emmm...Ouch?


Breaking hardware hurts. Where's the confusion?


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Pure.Dope said:


> Yeah it's probably my fault. When I first got it I may have set boost too high and overspun it. Not really sure but I'm gonna have a replacement sent to me and go from there.


What was the highest PSI you hit?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

NOt sure I buy that as the cause.. I hit 29-30 all day with my f23. Still holding up (knocks on wood).


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

warranty225cpe said:


> NOt sure I buy that as the cause.. I hit 29-30 all day with my f23. Still holding up (knocks on wood).


Maybe he didn't prime the turbo with oil upon first start?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Now that I think back I probably know what happened. Back when I was doing my timing belt I had to take the dremel to a stud. I had my intake off at the time and accidentally forgot to cover my turbo inlet. I'm sure the turbo did not like hot metal flakes inside of it.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

It's 100% my fault and thinking back to my TDI, I actually did the same exact thing to that turbo. Had the intake off, didn't cover the turbo inlet, and something got inside of it. Was probably minuscule but enough to cause damage to the compressor. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. Don't ever let me work on your car.

Yes I did prime it w/ oil and coolant.


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

Pure.Dope said:


> Now that I think back I probably know what happened. Back when I was doing my timing belt I had to take the dremel to a stud. I had my intake off at the time and accidentally forgot to cover my turbo inlet. I'm sure the turbo did not like hot metal flakes inside of it.


My worst nightmare! I always put towels in holes like that for that reason...sucks but you live and you learn.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Compressor damage is instant. If something was in there, the compressor would have been destroyed the first time you went for a spin.

Take it off and visually inspect it. Its very easy to see if an outside object came in with contact with the compressor wheel or if it was something else.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Turbo's almost out. I might just wait til tomorrow to pull it. Just need the oil/coolant lines off.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Compressor damage is instant. If something was in there, the compressor would have been destroyed the first time you went for a spin.
> 
> Take it off and visually inspect it. Its very easy to see if an outside object came in with contact with the compressor wheel or if it was something else.


It's been getting progressively worse, just like w/ my TDI. So in my particular case it was a snowball effect.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

If something was sucked in and caused damage it would not get progressively worse.

Bearings, a mis-balance, or the compressor nut becoming loose would however.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Introduce a blade with forgen derbis and spin the wheel, that bearing is gonna take some clobbering and things will get worse.

Hopefully the housing was untouched, FT's $150 CHRA replacement deal FTW.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I forget I'm talking to turbo experts
> 
> I'm sorry :beer:


Fact are facts brother. This didn't just happen overnight. Either way, who cares. 

Sounds to me like you're trying to say I didn't cause the failure. I did. It was from dremeling the timing belt tensioner stud w/ the intake off.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> If something was sucked in and caused damage it would not get progressively worse.
> 
> Bearings, a mis-balance, or the compressor nut becoming loose would however.


if FOD damaged a blade it will put the balance out............ which could cause progressive failure thereafter


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Fact are facts brother. This didn't just happen overnight. Either way, who cares.
> 
> Sounds to me like you're trying to say I didn't cause the failure. I did. It was from dremeling the timing belt tensioner stud w/ the intake off.


Sorry for your loss. You probably remember that I dropped something in my inlet too, so I know how you feel...


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Compressor damage is instant. If something was in there, the compressor would have been destroyed the first time you went for a spin.


you are claiming to define the period of time for damage to actualize on a turbo you dont know the specs for, from a foreign object you are unsure of. 

this is why i will never buy anything from you. 

your marketing agenda drives your posting, not helping individuals. 

someone with as much experience as you advertise should appreciate the unpredictability of hardware use/misuse and malfunction.


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

alexj87 said:


> you are claiming to define the period of time for damage to actualize on a turbo you dont know the specs for, from a foreign object you are unsure of.
> 
> this is why i will never buy anything from you.
> 
> ...


nah. couple metal shavings, handful of bolts.... no difference.....:screwy:
idk why i keep seeing gonzo posting in any frankenturbo thread, especially when it seems to always be sh!tting on any of Dougs products, having just installed a f23, and having no issues with it whatsoever, the kit is def not second shelf by any means. i suppose its possible op could have had an underlying issue, but not a guarantee. buts annoying when someone starts getting ignorant and blatantly bashing someone elses product, especially their own product looks like a carbon twin of the product you are bashing, Doug is a great guy and has my respect, gonzo... no offense but let your product do the talking, not your keyboard


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

vegamotion said:


> idk why i keep seeing gonzo posting in any frankenturbo thread


Well after the last few pages of this thread went to h*ll I would think sticking to your own products thread would be smart but I am not a marketer.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

I give free advice. Take it or leave it.

I have no hidden agenda and I never talk badly about any of my competitors.

Take it as you will.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

People whom use definitives (never, always, etc) tend to be liars 
I am not pointing fingers, just making a statement.

Back on topic:
FT install went great! Had a couple stumbling blocks, but it was my car not the turbo kit. Called Doug and we easily figured it out. Running decent on my REVO stage 1 software, just waiting for my upgraded HPFP to get a proper tune.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

derZeck said:


> People whom use definitives (never, always, etc) tend to be liars
> I am not pointing fingers, just making a statement.


So if someone says that they have *never* killed or assaulted someone, should I assume that they are lying?

Food for thought.

Later :wave:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

derZeck said:


> People whom use definitives (never, always, etc) tend to be liars
> I am not pointing fingers, just making a statement.
> 
> Back on topic:
> FT install went great! Had a couple stumbling blocks, but it was my car not the turbo kit. Called Doug and we easily figured it out. Running decent on my REVO stage 1 software, just waiting for my upgraded HPFP to get a proper tune.


Did you install it yourself?


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

derZeck said:


> Running decent on my REVO stage 1 software, just waiting for my upgraded HPFP to get a proper tune.


Would you by any chance know if REVO plans on supporting the FT?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I give free advice. Take it or leave it.
> 
> I have no hidden agenda and I never talk badly about any of my competitors.
> 
> Take it as you will.


Gonzales

You have now had a full week to enjoy your new advertiser status. Yet for some reason you are still more active in the threads discussing our products than you are in those for your own. Maybe you don't get it, but this is unethical. Leave this thread and any other thread dedicated to your competitors' products. If you do not, then you simply need to be shown what becomes of your commercial threads when professional courtesies aren't made.

This counts for your official user account as well as to your numerous ghost and phony ones you still use.

You have other threads. You have an entirely separate user forum dedicated to the temple of Gonzo. Go there.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> So if someone says that they have *never* killed or assaulted someone, should I assume that they are lying?
> 
> Food for thought.
> 
> Later :wave:


I said "tend to be liars" and "I am not pointing fingers, just making a statement"

I will also point out that you were the first person to respond a rebuttal.

feeling guilty?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Interesting that the moderator names on that site are exactly the names that are here causing problems in this thread. 

Gonzo, you arent doing yourself any favors posting here. In fact, quite the opposite. Your tactics are transparent and childish. Again, if your intent is truly to warn us of the product... your point has been noted.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

Brokenparts said:


> Gonzo, you arent doing yourself any favors posting here. In fact, quite the opposite. Your tactics are transparent and childish. Again, if your intent is truly to warn us of the product... your point has been noted.


 I never said anything about the product.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Gonzales
> 
> You have now had a full week to enjoy your new advertiser status. Yet for some reason you are still more active in the threads discussing our products than you are in those for your own. Maybe you don't get it, but this is unethical. Leave this thread and any other thread dedicated to your competitors' products. *If you do not, then you simply need to be shown what becomes of your commercial threads when professional courtesies aren't made*.
> 
> ...


Damn, that sounds like a threat.. I didnt know you had it in you Doug opcorn:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I never said anything about the product.


Nothing blatantly... true. Your intent and banter is something quite different.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Brokenparts said:


> Did you install it yourself?


VEGAMOTION and I did, mostly VEGAMOTION 




SmithersSP said:


> Would you by any chance know if REVO plans on supporting the FT?


I highly doubt it, since it is direct competition with REVO/Stasis products.
I also reached out Chris Butcher at Revo/Stasis and he feels the same.

I have been contemplating upgrading my software to a stage 2+ for $50 just to see how it adapts with the FT. Worst case, I am out a $50 upgrade fee.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

derZeck said:


> VEGAMOTION and I did, mostly VEGAMOTION
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You would have to go 2+ to take advantage of the 130bar rail pressure the HPFP upgrade will allow you. If you do take some A/F logs. If the FT does spool faster and harder I'd be concerned that the REVO fuel map could cause a lean condition under full load. Then again I'm not sure if the ME9 would simply compensate.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Gonzales
> 
> You have now had a full week to enjoy your new advertiser status. Yet for some reason you are still more active in the threads discussing our products than you are in those for your own. Maybe you don't get it, but this is unethical. Leave this thread and any other thread dedicated to your competitors' products. If you do not, then you simply need to be shown what becomes of your commercial threads when professional courtesies aren't made.
> 
> ...


 I don't have any phony/ghost accounts. I only have two accounts. My personal one and my advertiser account. VMG can vouch to this.

What *your* disgruntled customers post about *your* products has nothing to do with me.

Do note that I do not take kindly to threats. Especially from vendors that like to slander their competitors.

On that note I vacate this thread. Watch your step.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

SmithersSP said:


> You would have to go 2+ to take advantage of the 130bar rail pressure the HPFP upgrade will allow you. If you do take some A/F logs. If the FT does spool faster and harder I'd be concerned that the REVO fuel map could cause a lean condition under full load. Then again I'm not sure if the ME9 would simply compensate.


I do need to do some logging. I am not pushing it too hard since I know its not properly tuned.
After some logging, we will see how the REVO tune adapts to the FT.
Like I said, worst case I am out the upgrade fee


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

Pure.Dope said:


> It was from dremeling the timing belt tensioner stud w/ the intake off.


Why were you dremeling the stud for the tensioner?


----------



## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> Why were you dremeling the stud for the tensioner?


Good question, I was wondering the same.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I don't have any phony/ghost accounts. I only have two accounts. My personal one and my advertiser account. VMG can vouch to this.
> 
> What *your* disgruntled customers post about *your* products has nothing to do with me.
> 
> ...


What's funny here is how he claims I am a ghost account when he's had several conversations with me before and after you came on the scene. 

What I don't get is how people keep believing the lies that come from this guy.:facepalm:

Doug,
Gonzales


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

OK. We get it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Abe Froman (Mar 11, 1999)

Brokenparts said:


> OK. We get it.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2



Agreed. Everyone move on, please.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

what intakes are people swapping to? and why? flutter?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Agreed. Everyone move on, please.


Agreed, I just feel that Sponsors / Companies must be held to a standard as well. If Doug would even apologize for lying to me and others. If he would acknowledge that I'm not a "ghost" account. If he would act like a grown up. I would stop pressing him. 

I will stop pressing Doug as long as I don't catch him in a lie. I will call him on his lies. If that's a ban-able offense I'd strongly suggest Vortexers to reassess EVERYTHING they read from a paid advertiser. If a person can't have a voice, when the voice is true all you will have is lies. You will have voices of people paying for a voice, a voice that can say whatever without impunity, which is something I thought VMG was going to change. 

I'm sure he's asked you to ban me several times. 

The thing is, I've never lied about FT or Doug. I put ALL companies on the same level. If Doug had treated me correctly in the past, maybe he and I would be friends now. This is how Gonzo and I are friends, he treated me well and now we are friends. If his product failed to produce, I would document it because it's my obligation to the community to do so. Would it hurt our friendship? I'd hope not, since he knows from day one that the business / testing side of our relationship is different than that of us being friends. If he screws up I'll call him on it. 

My point is, there's been a long standing reputation for certain vendors having the facts skewed because of funding. This is a COMMUNITY therefore as a community we owe it to one another to voice out grievances as well as our praise. Certain vendors here WELCOME criticism (yes I am speaking of Gonzo). Without criticism you never learn what the customer needs from you. This is what a lot of companies have lost over the years.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

alexj87 said:


> what intakes are people swapping to? and why? flutter?


I have a K&N Typhoon with no problems


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

DMVDUB said:


> 1. That Dougs product IS a carbon copy of several other products that you just don't know about. 2. The GTT out performs the F23 while being bolt-on accessible for transverse engines. .


Please explain what makes the GTT better than the f21 or f23? Is it a better turbine or Better compressor wheel? Or is it you've just got a better stronger actuator?I for one am intrigued


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## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

So, dudes with FT- what is the final consensus on the most ideal diameter/angle for the turbo outlet silicone coupler? What size T bar clamps to go with it?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Beachbuggy said:


> Please explain what makes the GTT better than the f21 or f23? Is it a better turbine or Better compressor wheel? Or is it you've just got a better stronger actuator?I for one am intrigued





big_c02 said:


> So, dudes with FT- what is the final consensus on the most ideal diameter/angle for the turbo outlet silicone coupler? What size T bar clamps to go with it?


I'm curious why both of you would ask these questions.


----------



## superkarl (Dec 18, 2012)

Brokenparts said:


> I'm curious why both of you would ask these questions.


because without actual specs of these turbos the word 'hybrid' means absolutely nothing at all.
Its such a loose term, and without knowing exactly what is in these turbos, and many others, you have no idea just what you are buying. 

There is only so many comp wheels, and so many turbine wheels that will work together and fit inside these housings, only so many combinations. 

These companies try to blag people on the word 'hybrid', or even worse, 'stage 1 hybrid', 'stage 2 hybrid' etc etc. 

Beachbuggy has experimented with more than enough variations in oem hyrbids, so knows what wheels work with what and in what housings etc. He's one of few people that will share the true specs of hybrids to customers. There have been some customers here in the UK buying from some suppliers and not knowing what is in it, paying alot of money, to then not realise the numbers.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

superkarl said:


> because without actual specs of these turbos the word 'hybrid' means absolutely nothing at all.
> Its such a loose term, and without knowing exactly what is in these turbos, and many others, you have no idea just what you are buying.
> 
> There is only so many comp wheels, and so many turbine wheels that will work together and fit inside these housings, only so many combinations.
> ...


Exactly as I suspected. We get it. Noted. See your point. Thanks. Got it. Thanks for the information.


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## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Brokenparts said:


> I'm curious why both of you would ask these questions.



I have a K04 outlet muffler, a Neuspeed K04 turbo outlet pipe...looking to see if any of this stuff would be able to be reused on the FT kit.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Beachbuggy said:


> Please explain what makes the GTT better than the f21 or f23? Is it a better turbine or Better compressor wheel? Or is it you've just got a better stronger actuator?I for one am intrigued


I will speak with you privately. I'm not going to derail this thread further. My presence here is just to set things straight when Doug starts throwing around untruths.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

big_c02 said:


> I have a K04 outlet muffler, a Neuspeed K04 turbo outlet pipe...looking to see if any of this stuff would be able to be reused on the FT kit.


Did you decide not to use Gonzo's kit?


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

DMVDUB said:


> I will speak with you privately. I'm not going to derail this thread further. My presence here is just to set things straight when Doug starts throwing around untruths.


Not sure its de-railing in the slightest.. Your the one stating GTT turbo performs better... But why? I think its a perfectly valid question..

If you're going to de-rail a thread and say one is better than the other but not back it up, I question what your motives are!


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

big_c02 said:


> I have a K04 outlet muffler, a Neuspeed K04 turbo outlet pipe...looking to see if any of this stuff would be able to be reused on the FT kit.


everything that fit on my K03 also fit on my FT, does that help?


----------



## SecTime (Apr 27, 2012)

DMVDUB said:


> I will speak with you privately. I'm not going to derail this thread further. My presence here is just to set things straight when Doug starts throwing around untruths.


Either way, anything coming from Gonzo-something in the sig or name is most likely inherently biased in regards to this thread. You should worry about getting some numbers up in the Gonzo Turbo thread and worry less about what's going on in here.

Most of this comes off as disingenuous and any "truths" coming from any of you leaves an element of doubt in your intentions. I'm curious about both turbos, so get something concrete for us to compare, otherwise it seems you are just bashing a competitor in an effort to push your own agenda.


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

SecTime said:


> Either way, anything coming from Gonzo-something in the sig or name is most likely inherently biased in regards to this thread. You should worry about getting some numbers up in the Gonzo Turbo thread and worry less about what's going on in here.
> 
> Most of this comes off as disingenuous and any "truths" coming from any of you leaves an element of doubt in your intentions. I'm curious about both turbos, so get something concrete for us to compare, otherwise it seems you are just bashing a competitor in an effort to push your own agenda.


Look up 4cefed4's build. I stopped caring about building my VW any further for a real car. 

What makes the GTT better in short is, it's made side by side with the tune. It was designed for the 1.8T transverse motor. The FT has yet to be tuned properly by anyone other than Gonzo. Unless you consider using a MBC to control "spike" and "surge". The companies that offer a FT tune offer an incomplete tune. It's a basic K04 tune that's been slightly tweaked.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

SecTime said:


> Either way, anything coming from Gonzo-something in the sig or name is most likely inherently biased in regards to this thread. You should worry about getting some numbers up in the Gonzo Turbo thread and worry less about what's going on in here.
> 
> Most of this comes off as disingenuous and any "truths" coming from any of you leaves an element of doubt in your intentions. I'm curious about both turbos, so get something concrete for us to compare, otherwise it seems you are just bashing a competitor in an effort to push your own agenda.


Well said.


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## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

derZeck said:


> everything that fit on my K03 also fit on my FT, does that help?


Hmm...that is interesting. The first few pages were people dealing with 45 or 90 degree couplers..wondering if those are no longer necessary?


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

these t-clamps and couplers?


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## SecTime (Apr 27, 2012)

DMVDUB said:


> Look up 4cefed4's build. I stopped caring about building my VW any further for a real car.
> 
> What makes the GTT better in short is, it's made side by side with the tune. It was designed for the 1.8T transverse motor. The FT has yet to be tuned properly by anyone other than Gonzo. Unless you consider using a MBC to control "spike" and "surge". The companies that offer a FT tune offer an incomplete tune. It's a basic K04 tune that's been slightly tweaked.


Still just words, show us something. I no longer own a 1.8t. Irrelevant.


----------



## SecTime (Apr 27, 2012)

Brokenparts said:


> Well said.


Thank you. Thought it got to the point.


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> Good question, I was wondering the same.


The piece of **** was stuck, and it had stripped threads where the nut goes. It was good times.


----------



## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Pure.dope, reading all your posts about constant install issues with stripping or dremeling or other problems saddens me deeply. Have a :beer: on me


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

DMVDUB said:


> Look up 4cefed4's build. I stopped caring about building my VW any further for a real car.
> 
> What makes the GTT better in short is, it's made side by side with the tune. It was designed for the 1.8T transverse motor. The FT has yet to be tuned properly by anyone other than Gonzo. Unless you consider using a MBC to control "spike" and "surge". The companies that offer a FT tune offer an incomplete tune. It's a basic K04 tune that's been slightly tweaked.


I've got no spikes or surging and no mbc. 

Tuning is not some magic witch craft, it's math and science. 

If you are doing this sort of modification, a cookie cutter tune from any company is not going to maximize or be safe for a vehicles unique environment; elevation, temperatures, mods, etc. 

That's the way it is. Want a new turbo? Get it tuned, on a dyno, by a professional. 

Unless your willing to go with a kit from APR or the like, and still their tunes are conservative for the same reasons as above. 

If you are getting something like a FrankenTurbo, you've already decidedly left the beaten path.


----------



## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

Pure.Dope said:


> The piece of **** was stuck, and it had stripped threads where the nut goes. It was good times.


and this happened on 2 different vehicles? your FSI and your TDI?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

big_c02 said:


> Pure.dope, reading all your posts about constant install issues with stripping or dremeling or other problems saddens me deeply. Have a :beer: on me


Seriously. Most of the dumb **** that happens is my fault though. I am seriously considering selling this and going back to a tdi. Or just something new so I don't have to work on it. Maybe I'll go 2015 GTI.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> and this happened on 2 different vehicles? your FSI and your TDI?


Nope. w/ my CJAA TDI I was removing the turbo resonance damper. Everything seemed to go fine, but something small somehow got into the compressor and damaged it. About 2 months later it blew/dentist drill sound up dat ass.


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## superkarl (Dec 18, 2012)

Brokenparts said:


> Exactly as I suspected. We get it. Noted. See your point. Thanks. Got it. Thanks for the information.


 I was referring to both Gonzo and Frankenturbo btw. 
Because everything is very hush hush with regards to what they actually are.


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

Im only leaning towards the ft setup mostly due to the fact that there is in fact a tune for my car, given it is a 1.8t but just due to my random mix of hardware, the ft is a setup I can run, so it cant be written across the board that there is no tune for a ft but is for the gtt, as I was told by gonzo no tune was available for me

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

superkarl said:


> I was referring to both Gonzo and Frankenturbo btw.
> Because everything is very hush hush with regards to what they actually are.


If you're going to sell a turbo/Tune package, then it doesn't matter what's in the turbo as no one else needs to know.. It just needs to make the power advertised, according to the tuner that sold you the tuner/turbo combo..


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Awesome so everythings up and running. Turbo is fixed and installed. Drove it to and from work today with no issue. As we speak I'm flashing to the Maestro F23T base file from the repository. I'm hoping this clears up my DSG jerkiness issue. I have been using a different F23T file, one that I've been making modifications to along the way but I think my DSG doesn't like something about it.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> Awesome so everythings up and running. Turbo is fixed and installed. Drove it to and from work today with no issue. As we speak I'm flashing to the Maestro F23T base file from the repository. I'm hoping this clears up my DSG jerkiness issue. I have been using a different F23T file, one that I've been making modifications to along the way but I think my DSG doesn't like something about it.


I'm confused. You weren't running the f23tor you weren't running maestro ? What broke? Did u get a replacement fro Doug?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Ok the file I just flashed to is surging at 15psi. Ill post a vid when I get home. I think its just the boost PID is wonky in this file.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> I'm confused. You weren't running the f23tor you weren't running maestro ? What broke? Did u get a replacement fro Doug?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


I was running both. F23t w/ f23t file. Turbo failed for reasons yet TBD. I'm almost certain it was my fault.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Wow... you got a replacement that fast?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> Wow... you got a replacement that fast?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


Doug delivers, as always. We worked something out to get me up and running again asap.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> Doug delivers, as always. We worked something out to get me up and running again asap.


That is truly awesome and reinforces my decision to go with the FrankenTurbo. Well done Doug.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## that240guy (Aug 14, 2007)

Wow!! I haven't looked at this thread in a while. Some madness going on in here.

Anyway, I got my 2007 A3 up and running finally with GIAC. Doug will post some logs soon I'm sure. We are getting real close to having an off the shelf tune ready to flash for the FSI and TSI cars from GIAC.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Confirmed it's not a "surge" but a ****ed up boost duty table. Why it's in the repository like this I have no idea.


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## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Kudos to Doug for quick replacement. Any idea what caused it? Is priming based on the stasis guide satisfactory?


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Not sure what the stasis guide says but crank the engine w coil harness disconnected and that should be good. Theres so much debate on pouring oil before starting it that I didnt worry. Who knows maybe that was a bad move.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

that240guy said:


> Anyway, I got my 2007 A3 up and running finally with GIAC. Doug will post some logs soon I'm sure. We are getting real close to having an off the shelf tune ready to flash for the FSI and TSI cars from GIAC.


Yes! This is what I was looking forward to. I really want to see a comparison to a K04 as well.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*GIAC F23T "base map" for FSI support*

Over the last several weeks, GIAC has been working towards a FrankenTurbo-specific file for the FSI engine. They've gotten to the point now where they can release some data of the AU Tuning test car's progress. Here are a few graphs to show the state of their base map. It's noteworthy that they've opted to use reasonably-priced RS4 injectors as their fueling requirement. But the data shows them to be working exactly right:

Fuel pressure control at both the HPFP and the low pressure in-tank pump:











Air fuel mixtures (Lambdas):











Getting these values to the point where GIAC was satisfied involved a huge amount of dedication and professionalism on their part. I have been pushing them to "go ahead and finish it already!" for weeks, but they stood firm. Unless fueling was up to their standards, the file would have to wait. Given where they are now with fueling management, I completely understand.

Moving on to ignition timing, here is the chart while running 91 octane California gas:











And here are the corresponding airflow mixtures at this point in the file's development:











Last but not least is GIAC's demonstration of boost management. Mapping for our F23's 12lb actuator, they have *absolute control over when and how the turbo boosts*.











As you can see, GIAC's mapping has the turbo toeing the line of their boost requests perfectly. This is solid tuning, and is proof positive of what this turbo can do in the hands of talented people.

Thanks go out to Dave and Raz of AU Tuning, and the entire tuning team at GIAC. I can't wait to see where you go from this starting point.

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Maybe ill take the easy route and get giac. I just want a tune that has support.

edit: nevermind, I can't spring for injectors right now.


----------



## that240guy (Aug 14, 2007)

The RS4 injectors are very reasonable. We can get sets for under $400.00


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

And then the install costs, unless I do it myself. Which at this moment I'm a bit tired of working on my car. Maybe I'll revisit in a few months. 

I'm interested in why they require RS4's. I can understand if it's because they need to create a solid base for the turbo, even if stock injectors might "just do the job ok".


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

Pure.Dope said:


> I'm interested in why they require RS4's. I can understand if it's because they need to create a solid base for the turbo, even if stock injectors might "just do the job ok".


Well said. I'm no FSI guy, but I've been following this thread and also curious to hear the rationale here. Also - why the boost drop off? EGTs?


----------



## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

suffocatemymind said:


> Well said. I'm no FSI guy, but I've been following this thread and also curious to hear the rationale here. Also - why the boost drop off? EGTs?


I would guess that boost drops off because it seems like holding it at 23 or so psi doesn't net much more power in the top rpm range.


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Surprised they didn't use S3 injectors.


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## GTI08MKV (Aug 25, 2009)

Rs4s and giac hmmm im starting to get convinced on dumping my k04 and software i will stay tuned...


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> Surprised they didn't use S3 injectors.


Possibility to keep this as low budget as possible since you can find them for so much cheaper?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Tutti57 said:


> Possibility to keep this as low budget as possible since you can find them for so much cheaper?


Since the TTS/Golf R S3 injectors have gone down to $500/set (vs $400/set). Considering the modest boost curve and the turbo size itself I'm guessing car owner preference is as good a theory as any. I know they have safety and variable hardware in mind but if going thru the trouble of adding RS4 injectors might as well require a large intercooler and crank up the top end a little (based on boost and mass air numbers).


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

GTI08MKV said:


> Rs4s and giac hmmm im starting to get convinced on dumping my k04 and software i will stay tuned...


As i understand it there is no reason to swap from the k04 to a F23T or GTT if you have one installed...there really isn't that much more on the table. Doug and others have kind of half mentioned it but...it seems to be the consensus that a k04 is just as capable. 

I have been interested in the swap but there are no real numbers to prove that the k04 is any less capable that the FT unit.


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

Rub-ISH said:


> As i understand it there is no reason to swap from the k04 to a F23T or GTT if you have one installed...there really isn't that much more on the table. Doug and others have kind of half mentioned it but...it seems to be the consensus that a k04 is just as capable.
> 
> I have been interested in the swap but there are no real numbers to prove that the k04 is any less capable that the FT unit.


I hope you're joking. F23t numbers have smoked the k04 numbers. Also on the tsi you can make srupid power with this turbo. Anyome that does rods will be able to push that power too. Also do we need to mention the price? Thats a steal in itself.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

skyrolla89 said:


> I hope you're joking. F23t numbers have smoked the k04 numbers. Also on the tsi you can make srupid power with this turbo. Anyome that does rods will be able to push that power too. Also do we need to mention the price? Thats a steal in itself.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


Has that been because of the turbo or aggressive tuning? NJDubber is the only one I'm aware of who pushed a verified 350ish whp from the F23T. Most k04 guys have off the shelf tuning with inability of adjustment where as so far the high hp from F23T has been from tinkering.

As for the TSI there is a TSI who switched from APR k04 to Frankenturbo/Maestro (now in testing with GIAC). He netted about a 20hp gain with similar boost and rough tuning. That's not worth a switch (especially for the guy above you already running 12s with an FSI k04).


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Since the TTS/Golf R S3 injectors have gone down to $500/set (vs $400/set). Considering the modest boost curve and the turbo size itself I'm guessing car owner preference is as good a theory as any.


FYI 



Serrari said:


> I dont really get this info:_
> 
> More fuel for the fire.We've tested the RS4 injectors during our 2.0T turbo development R&D.
> We first tested them in cars, before we purchased our $8000 ASNU DI injector test stand.
> ...


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## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Awesome info. Thanks for posting. I'm most interested in what can be squeezed out of the stock injectors and LPFP- Mostly because this turbo is marketed as a direct swap. It's easy and cheap to upgrade the HPFP...however when you get into pulling the intake mani off and swapping injectors, it becomes a much more considerable affair.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

alexj87 said:


> FYI


What does that have to do with the time of day? That's been known for about 5yrs but would be even more evident that GIAC didn't expressly choose RS4 injectors (S3's provide adequate fueling for what they are trying to do and have optimal spray pattern for turbo FSI applications). There really is no good reason GIAC would choose RS4 injectors other than the owner had them or chose them.

Usually when a car has RS4 injectors and no big turbo they either a) had plans of a big turbo and ended up going with something smaller (F23T) or b) had a REVO tuned k04 which only recently started using S3 injectors.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> What does that have to do with the time of day?


 I was just posting informatively, see post above 



> There really is no good reason GIAC would choose RS4 injectors other than the owner had them or chose them.


thats my point


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Anyone go with the 'Ceramic-Coated Turbine/Manifold' option? 

What color is it? Who's coating is it swain or another? I'm sure it will keep under hood temps down but will it help spool at all? Any impact on EGT's?


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

GTI2Slow said:


> Anyone go with the 'Ceramic-Coated Turbine/Manifold' option?
> 
> What color is it? Who's coating is it swain or another? I'm sure it will keep under hood temps down but will it help spool at all? Any impact on EGT's?


I did cause wtf, dont really have any info for you tho on impact


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

skyrolla89 said:


> I hope you're joking. F23t numbers have smoked the k04 numbers. Also on the tsi you can make srupid power with this turbo. Anyome that does rods will be able to push that power too. Also do we need to mention the price? Thats a steal in itself.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


To that I would offer this...don't leg hump so hard without solid information



[email protected] said:


> Rub-ISH said:
> 
> 
> > hey Gonzo
> ...


----------



## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

Rub-ISH said:


> To that I would offer this...don't leg hump so hard without solid information


Is gonzo saying that you can't build a Tfsi turbo better than the stock k04 or that neither the current FT or GTT are better than a stock k04?

I only ask as its easy to build a direct bolt on k03 Tfsi turbo that will out perform the k04.. Obviously it'll need other mods..


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## superkarl (Dec 18, 2012)

The FT and GTT are ko4 chra inside ko3 manifolds and housings, so unless the ko3 mani design is better then...


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

Beachbuggy said:


> Is gonzo saying that you can't build a Tfsi turbo better than the stock k04 or that neither the current FT or GTT are better than a stock k04?
> 
> I only ask as its easy to build a direct bolt on k03 Tfsi turbo that will out perform the k04.. Obviously it'll need other mods..


I asked because I was interested in the swap...his response seems pretty genuine as he does have a turbo in this "fight" 

I am still going to go with the more custom GIAC file once I can get my hands on this specific intake...3 inch maf (tuned for 3 inch maf) 

The car is built to take advantage of anything left on the table...before any of these hybrid had hit the 2.0t market... I built it to see just what I could get out of a k04 before making the jump to a bigger turbo


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

It seems that the K04 and f23t are putting down similar numbers on the FSI. It looks like the f23t holds power longer but both have drop offs in tq at or near 6K rpm. That and it being cheap when compared to the K04 make it a winner.

I would really like to see some finished tunes compared to k04 numbers before I make a decision myself. I would like to see GIAC's f23t numbers as dynos of their K04 are easy to find now. I really doubt that the GTT is anything amazing, if it was I would expect some posts by now with actual data.


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

GTI2Slow said:


> I really doubt that the GTT is anything amazing, if it was I would expect some posts by now with actual data.


You've seen nothing because it hasn't been released yet. That said; you WILL see better results from the GTTX because of the software we're developing. The turbo itself is similar to the F23. 

We're not claiming to reinvent the wheel with regards to the GTTX. The real selling point of our GTTX program is our revolutionary software that's still under development.

If you want more power out of the K04, F23, or GTTX; software is key, as bigger wheels can't really be installed at this point. Want more? Id really start looking to the gtx2867-gt3071 variants:beer:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> You've seen nothing because it hasn't been released yet. That said; you WILL see better results from the GTTX because of the software we're developing. The turbo itself is similar to the F23.
> 
> We're not claiming to reinvent the wheel with regards to the GTTX. The real selling point of our GTTX program is our revolutionary software that's still under development.
> 
> If you want more power out of the K04, F23, or GTTX; software is key, as bigger wheels can't really be installed at this point. Want more? Id really start looking to the gtx2867-gt3071 variants:beer:


bigger wheels cant be installed?
you think?


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

badger5 said:


> bigger wheels cant be installed?
> you think?


One revolutionary project at a time.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

alexj87 said:


> One revolutionary project at a time.


hmmm


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Confirmed oil contamination broke my turbo. Not sure why it happened but I didnt change my oil when I did the install, because the previous owner had it changed about 1000 miles prior. When I ended up doing the oil change at 75000 I noticed the old filter was slightly different size than the correct one I installed. So maybe the oil filter was the culprit??? This makes a strong case for doing your own oil and doing it also when you change turbos. I found so many things his mechanic had done wrong on the car that I question how the man even operates. No names will be named though. All Ill say is its some discount vw/audi shop in North Phoenix cave creek area.


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

alexj87 said:


> One revolutionary project at a time.


"Revolutionary project"

It's a project, evolutionary yes... revolutionary turbo wise , no... Software possibly... 

Revolutionary implies something completely new and never tested and will change tfsi turbos market..


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Beachbuggy said:


> "Revolutionary project"
> 
> It's a project, evolutionary yes... revolutionary turbo wise , no... Software possibly...
> 
> Revolutionary implies something completely new and never tested and will change tfsi turbos market..


I was being an arse


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

I see this has turned into talk about anything/everything but the actual Frankenturbo and software solutions that exist. Want a generalized k04 hybrid discussion comparing Franken/GTTx/Lobos start a thread about it.

Car being sorted out, review to follow (questions about the software process welcome)


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## Rub-ISH (Aug 8, 2006)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> Want a generalized k04 hybrid discussion comparing Franken/GTTx/Lobos start a thread about it.


Take it easy fussy britches...snicker maybe in your future. 

The information is all relevant regardless of your "request"


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

These aftermarket turbos really brings out the worst in people. :laugh:


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Rub-ISH said:


> Take it easy fussy britches...snicker maybe in your future.
> 
> The information is all relevant regardless of your "request"


Relevant I agree, Frankenturbo thread specific...meh roll tide


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Anybody w/ .do have DSG? Did they get it right? Any bucking or jerking?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Pure.Dope said:


> Anybody w/ .do have DSG? Did they get it right? Any bucking or jerking?


No DSG here (that was the first question they asked so I assume they do it differently for DSG). MAF function retained. Pretty sure GTRaider on Golf V forum has DSG. I won't have my car until next week so I can't give a review until then. Getting the tune and dealing with Taylor was easy and hassle free. Lovin the powergate 3


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

Derzeck is dsg, and i know was talking to dotuning, not sure what hes decided to do on his yet

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

just completed a 800 mile trip - no issues what so ever - little less than .5 qt oil burned.

Very pleased, car was an absolute champ - drivablity was superb - the last 5 miles were just as strong as the 1st.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

alexj87 said:


> just completed a 800 mile trip - no issues what so ever - little less than .5 qt oil burned.
> 
> Very pleased, car was an absolute champ - drivablity was superb - the last 5 miles were just as strong as the 1st.


What tune are you running again?


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Brokenparts said:


> What tune are you running again?


maestro base with s3 injectors, dialed in on the dyno by Marc at EFI express in NH :thumbup:


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## GRIMwagon (Aug 12, 2008)

alexj87 said:


> maestro base with s3 injectors, dialed in on the dyno by Marc at EFI express in NH :thumbup:


Marc's a genius! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

superkarl said:


> The FT and GTT are ko4 chra inside ko3 manifolds and housings


The F23T is the subject of this thread, so I'll speak only for our product: the F23T has a K04-specification turbine casting. It is NOT a K03 hybrid. It is simply a "hybrid" that has OEM fitment. And it is the highest-performance stock fitment turbo on the market.

And yes, I am aware of Loba. Not stock fitment.




[email protected] said:


> If you want more power out of the K04, F23, or GTTX; software is key, as bigger wheels can't really be installed at this point. Want more? Id really start looking to the gtx2867-gt3071 variants:beer:



Jeff, I don't know who you are or where you come from, but this is a thread for discussing FrankenTurbo. Not for hawking your competing products. Also, the statement that bigger wheels can't be installed is hooey. If we felt bigger wheels would provide our customers a better product, we'd design them and then fit them. But the extensive testing we've done with wheel design has led us to the unique components in our turbo. We went for what's best, not simply what would fit.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

My new south bend clutch went sideways so I'm taking down my car in a week or so to address that issue and at the same time install my f23t. Driver Motorsport will handle the tune. I will dyno it shortly after. Mine will be running w/m too. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk now Free


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

how many miles on that clutch?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

A3Performance said:


> how many miles on that clutch?


FWIW, my clutch is starting to slip. But Im pushing a little more with E85


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> how many miles on that clutch?


Maybe 3,000. 

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

well it looks like I am going to try a different route with my tune

I am going to try REVO stage 2+ tune with my FT. I am currently REVO stage 1, so its a cheap upgrade, plus I want to get the DSG flashed too at the same time.

If the stage two tune does not like the FT, I will just find injectors and use a k04 Revo tune. 

The whole point of this build for me was an OE replacement, no big power. Yeah, more power is fun, but I need drive-ability with that power.

Just a baller on a budget, just like the rest of the rest of the VW community


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> Maybe 3,000.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk now Free


Dude that sucks. Wonder what happened.

Its warrantied for 12,000 miles so should be covered. 

I have probably... 20,000 hard miles on mine?


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

derZeck said:


> The whole point of this build for me was an OE replacement, no big power. Yeah, more power is fun, but I need drive-ability with that power.


Trust me if you NEED drive-ability a F23T SPECIFIC tune is the LAST thing you want to skip. The savings is not having to upgrade injectors and modification free direct fit. Just don't say you weren't warned and with either I guess you know the manual boost controller is going to be a must because it will overboost on k03 and k04 specific tunes. I wasn't exactly thrilled about throwing my APR tune in the trash (which I had for 6 years stages 1, 2 and 2 HPFP) or buying another tune. I know they SAY the turbo was designed with OE replacement in mind but let's think about this: new OE replacement BW is $995 (or $200-450 used) so why would one spend $1299 for OE replacement if you didn't want significantly more power? 


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Just to back track. Why the hell is another company trying to sell their product in another products thread. Go start your own thread or if it has, stay there.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Well a new K03 is 1299.99, new FT is 1299.99. 

I went FT for the ability to upgrade power down the road. I was not wanting to go balls out stage 3 from the gate. Just wish a tune was available locally, I can't afford to have my daily down every time I need a retune


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

derZeck said:


> Well a new K03 is 1299.99, new FT is 1299.99.
> 
> I went FT for the ability to upgrade power down the road. I was not wanting to go balls out stage 3 from the gate. Just wish a tune was available locally, I can't afford to have my daily down every time I need a retune


U need a back up car... I got a few to choose from lol

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Got a spare HPFP and injectors laying around too?


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

derZeck said:


> well it looks like I am going to try a different route with my tune
> 
> I am going to try REVO stage 2+ tune with my FT. I am currently REVO stage 1, so its a cheap upgrade, plus I want to get the DSG flashed too at the same time.
> 
> ...


REVO's tune will run like ****, it's not properly calibrated for this turbo.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

I was already talked out of it. Just going to trade my ECU for a stock ECU + cash and going to have do tune it


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

trying to find someone with a stock ECU that wants to trade me for my stage 1 ECU. If no one bites then I am just going to be out that REVO tune and let do.tuning do their thing. I just want a proper tune before a show on 26th that is 2 hours away.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

derZeck said:


> trying to find someone with a stock ECU that wants to trade me for my stage 1 ECU. If no one bites then I am just going to be out that REVO tune and let do.tuning do their thing. I just want a proper tune before a show on 26th that is 2 hours away.


That's not gonna happen.

ECU swapping is a friggin pain anymore.

I lost my APR multitune when I went w/ Eurodyne. Oh well. That's part of the game I guess.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

xtravbx said:


> That's not gonna happen.
> 
> ECU swapping is a friggin pain anymore.
> 
> I lost my APR multitune when I went w/ Eurodyne. Oh well. That's part of the game I guess.


I figured that I would give it a shot first, if no one wants to do it, no big deal.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

just sent payment to do.tuning, I should have a more functional car some time next week


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

derZeck said:


> just sent payment to do.tuning, I should have a more functional car some time next week


Still wont catch my mk2 lol 

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

vegamotion said:


> Still wont catch my mk2 lol
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2


you gotta get that thing on the road first


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Creative placement of the supplied decal


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

ECU will be here Wed. Looks like I am the first run with all stock fueling. I will post some logs and dyno numbers after this weekend sometime. 

Should see similar numbers to a stage 2 Golf R


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*FrankenTurbo F23T on WMI*

Speaking of fueling firsts, I'd like to post some graphs to illustrate some early benefits of a FrankenTurbo'd FSI running a water methanol kit. First are the car's specs straight from the car owner:

_F23 FrankenTurbo
stock injectors
HPFP(autotech)
FMIC
3inch catless downpipe
42DD oil catch can
Euro Jet mounts
BSH throttle pipe
Water Meth Injection_​
First off, here is a look at how the car performed by simply turning on the WMI. No software changes were done. This graph is a "Time-To-Speed" comparison against what the same car was doing last spring on plain pump gas.











Not a bad improvement for an otherwise unchanged car. And here are the logs showing all the key parameters (take note of the IATs for the two runs; more on that in a bit)











The before/after logs show an interesting mix of consistency and discrepancy. The boost data match. But the IATs were very different, leading to inconsistent airflows at the MAF sensor. I am sure the WMI system played a role, but it's clear that cooler ambient temperatures are skewing the comparison a bit.

Regardless, this is the first instance of double-digit timing advance for an F23T boosting above 20psi. That combination of timing and 280+ g/s makes for a good bit of power. The question is how much _more_ boost could the car get away with?


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## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Awesome. I happen to have a full dual injection WM setup for sale, like new, also


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Mine wm/f23t will be buttoned up here in the next day or so. My clutch is being replaced at the same time so a dyno run will have to wait for a few weeks but I will be posting my results too. Driver Motorsport is doing the tune. 

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

So. Got my ECU from do tuning today. 

I have a massive grin on my face, my car is a completely different animal.


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

derZeck said:


> So. Got my ECU from do tuning today.
> 
> I have a massive grin on my face, my car is a completely different animal.


Awesome to hear :thumbup: MAFless?


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Still have a MAF. 

What plugs are you guys running and what gap?
I think my 8exi's may have been a little fouled from driving on a stage 1 tune, now I am on dotuning. Now I am running super rich at full throttle, in the higher RPMs. 1/2 throttle it rips. 
Took a buddy out for a drive and he thinks I am "blowing the spark out"

I am going to try new plugs tomorrow and do some logging to send to Taylor.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

derZeck said:


> So. Got my ECU from do tuning today.
> 
> I have a massive grin on my face, my car is a completely different animal.


Fueling logs are really important to see. Running stock injectors with an HPFP upgrade is one level of adventurousness. But completely stock fueling is a whole new level of thinking. Let me just lay this out:

Old-school-think: upgraded HPFP and expensive S3 injectors are required for a K04 swap
FrankenTurbo-think: an upgraded HPFP and stock injectors are all you need on an F23T swap
doTuning-think: you don't even need an upgraded HPFP with stock injectors to run a K04 or F23T​
I really don't know how this will sort itself out. But I'm sure interested.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Thank you Doug for calling the shop that I'm having my turbo installed at. They said they had emailed you and you called them back within minutes. 

Should have some logs (and dyno) shortly to share with everyone.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

derZeck said:


> Still have a MAF.
> 
> What plugs are you guys running and what gap?
> I think my 8exi's may have been a little fouled from driving on a stage 1 tune, now I am on dotuning. Now I am running super rich at full throttle, in the higher RPMs. 1/2 throttle it rips.
> ...


I run dirt cheap ngk bkr7e's gapped down to .30 and i change them with my oil every 3k - simple enough and have never had an ignition issue - iridium plugs - different story


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

alexj87 said:


> I run dirt cheap ngk bkr7e's gapped down to .30 and i change them with my oil every 3k - simple enough and have never had an ignition issue - iridium plugs - different story


I am going to run NGK PFR7bs @ .021 with my Driver Motorsport tune.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Going to throw some bkr7e plugs in just to get it running right to run some logs


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Going to throw some bkr7e plugs in just to get it running right to run some logs


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> I am going to run NGK PFR7bs @ .021 with my Driver Motorsport tune.


I know that seems like a crazily-tight gap, but it works. :thumbup:


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Mine are gapped down to .025 right now


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Turbo is in... now I have 500 miles to go before I can enjoy it. 

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Having an odd issue with low fuel pressure codes at full boost. I did some logs and sent them to Doug and Taylor. Hoping its not a cam follower issue, but I am going to replace it anyway when it comes in tomorrow from the dealership. But our best guess is that my car has one of the few fuel rail valves that crack early, so if there are no issues with the cam follower I am just going to throw in a 130 bar rail valve and hope for the best. I was trying to do this with completely stock fueling, but it looks like that ain't happening. But if its just a $100 fuel rail valve, I can deal with that.

Long as I don't put it to the floor, she is running great. Half throttle pulls feel great!


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Having an odd issue with low fuel pressure codes at full boost. I did some logs and sent them to Doug and Taylor. Hoping its not a cam follower issue, but I am going to replace it anyway when it comes in tomorrow from the dealership. But our best guess is that my car has one of the few fuel rail valves that crack early, so if there are no issues with the cam follower I am just going to throw in a 130 bar rail valve and hope for the best. I was trying to do this with completely stock fueling, but it looks like that ain't happening. But if its just a $100 fuel rail valve, I can deal with that.

Long as I don't put it to the floor, she is running great. Half throttle pulls feel great!


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## apizzaparty (Mar 6, 2011)

tldr really random... but i saw in a video of a guy using this RS4 valve in his f23t set up..

http://www.ecstuning.com/ES284889/

what are the benefits of it?


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

apizzaparty said:


> tldr really random... but i saw in a video of a guy using this RS4 valve in his f23t set up..
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/ES284889/
> 
> what are the benefits of it?


this is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. OE valve cracks at a lower pressure, some OE valves crack really low (like mine) but most work just fine with do's tune.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

derZeck said:


> I did some logs and sent them to Doug and Taylor....I am just going to throw in a 130 bar rail valve and hope for the best. I was trying to do this with completely stock fueling, but it looks like that ain't happening. But if its just a $100 fuel rail valve, I can deal with that.
> 
> Long as I don't put it to the floor, she is running great. Half throttle pulls feel great!


Haven't received logs here. But there's no need for the tune to request above 125mbar, hence no need for a tricky-to-install uprated fuel rail valve.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

I emailed the logs to you last night


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

How tricky are we talking? 
More tricky than trying to reclock a turbo while it's installed in the car?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I used a RS4 valve and a golf r map sensor for my Driver Motorsports Tune. Can't say much yet though.... only 200 miles on my new clutch so far.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Btw, I found out I have the early revision valve that cracks at 116bar, this why I am the only one seeing this problem.


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

When your tune was requesting 125bar, u are only delivering about 91bar, and other times u were delivering over 130bar even without the request, that is some serious deviation from specified values

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

vegamotion said:


> When your tune was requesting 125bar, u are only delivering about 91bar, and other times u were delivering over 130bar even without the request, that is some serious deviation from specified values
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


That kinda make sense, if I have the first revision valve with the lower pressure valve. I purchased a new 130bar valve that is being shipped out today. I found a quick DIY by Chris Butcher at REVO/Stasis on how to install the valve quickly with a could crows feet in 10-15 min


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

For months now, this thread has been focused on our transversal engine hybrid turbo product. But a number of you might be interested in a bit of info on its cousin for the longitudinal FSI engine. Called the F23L, here is a look at it.




















As with all these new products, the big question is tuning. In the case of the F23L we are happy to be collaborating with Epic Tuning, with whom we have a strong partnership in the 2.7T Audi market. They were the first to fit our F23L prototype and immediately set about tuning on stock injectors fed by an upgraded HPFP. Here are some graphs showing their initial tuning efforts.











Anyone who's read this complete thread is aware of questions about our products being raised by our competitor. They say our actuators are flawed and can't be tuned. Well, as with GIAC's logs I posted earlier, these data show how smoothly boost can be delivered when the turbo is tuned by a professional. And they show a great deal of promise for a variety of tuning options that will be possible. Thanks to Josh and Sean at Epic Tuning for sending them out.


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

^^^^ impressive

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Nice! Can't wait to see an A4 quattro powered by a FT. It will be a monster


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Look at the spool possible on that heavy chassis and Quattro drivetrain. It's almost as fast as the K03 it replaced.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Teaser.... Driver Motorsport is amazing. Talk about boost control. Wow. The best part is that we arent even close to being done tuning. Still lots of headroom. We are only tuning over 4000ish rpm due to my new clutch. Anyway...










oh, and by the way... I can light up my tires in 3rd gear going 55 with an lsd. Granted its damp here but damn... I cant even imagine this thing when its fully tuned.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

On their website, DriverMotorsport forcefully states their commitment to boost control. And these early data show they can deliver. I'll be interested to see how the overall file shapes up. :thumbup:


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Swapped out my 110bar valve for a 150bar 

Stupid low early revision valves









Such a pain in the dick, but I did it with the manifold on.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

derZeck said:


> Swapped out my 110bar valve for a 150bar
> 
> Stupid low early revision valves
> 
> ...


What tools did you use?


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> What tools did you use?


14mm crows foot to get the line off. I tried a 17mm crows foot to get the valve off with no luck so I ended up using a mid well 17 socket. 

Much easier than pulling the manifold, but still a pain


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## MarkedIVGTI (Jun 8, 2009)

alexj87 said:


> I was being an arse


True Story. Miss your face, come to a g2g once in a while.

I want your turbo setup.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Some other questions came up in a different thread... I thought I would move it here as it is more appropriate. 

Here is a look at the boost control that driver motorsport has done for my car. Its impressive to say the least and my car runs like a raped ape. 










Due to traffic I was only able to start the RPM at 3000ish... Better graphs later.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sweet!

What did you end up doing about that smoked clutch?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Sweet!
> 
> What did you end up doing about that smoked clutch?


South Bend honored the warranty but I got stuck with the the labor bill and shipping. I have over 900 miles on the new one. Driver motorsport is doing a hell of job with the f23t. My car is a complete animal.



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## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

How do you compare it to the old setup? Was it as drastic a change as when you went from stock to stage 2+? Or more so?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DriverMotorsport has been keeping me in the loop as they tune this car. And what's really impressed me (in terms of how they handle my turbo) isn't just this graph...











...it's this one:











This second graph shows they understand that a fully drivable file needs to work whether you mash the pedal at 3000rpms or at 4000rpms. And mastering boost control under multiple scenarios takes this file from being merely "dyno ready" to being "road ready". That's no small accomplishment. Kudos to this new company. They're showing a lot of sophistication right out of the box. :thumbup:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

big_c02 said:


> How do you compare it to the old setup? Was it as drastic a change as when you went from stock to stage 2+? Or more so?



I will be doing a full write up when everything is finalized. I will say things are very very positive and I have no regrets so far. Stay tuned.


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> DriverMotorsport has been keeping me in the loop as they tune this car. And what's really impressed me (in terms of how they handle my turbo) isn't just this graph...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice Doug,

What psi actuator is this? And how are they doing at boost pressures over 22.5psi?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Beachbuggy said:


> Very nice Doug,
> 
> What psi actuator is this? And how are they doing at boost pressures over 22.5psi?



Dan - It's still our original actuator set for the controversial 12psi. Bronson at DriverMotorsport described the tuning process as challenging, which is one of the intents of that setting. If a tuner's got the chops to properly map this turbo, then chances are good that they are competent in all other aspects. Tuners that can't/don't have no business anywhere near our products.

The turbo is plenty capable of producing the boost. But boost onset has always been my priority, so I'm eager to see brokenpart's logs taken from a lower start.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Dan - It's still our original actuator set for the controversial 12psi. Bronson at DriverMotorsport described the tuning process as challenging, which is one of the intents of that setting. If a tuner's got the chops to properly map this turbo, then chances are good that they are competent in all other aspects. Tuners that can't/don't have no business anywhere near our products.
> 
> The turbo is plenty capable of producing the boost. But boost onset has always been my priority, so I'm eager to see brokenpart's logs taken from a lower start.


I have 13,000 miles or so on my setup.

Puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I just tried to go out and log. Unfortunately this being Oregon, it is pissing rain. My office has a window so I'll keep my eye's peeled and I'll get out the first chance I get.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> I have 13,000 miles or so on my setup.
> 
> Puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.


You said it man... I can mash on the throttle in just about any situation and it just starts pulling and pulling and pulling...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Brokenparts said:


> I just tried to go out and log. Unfortunately this being Oregon, it is pissing rain. My office has a window so I'll keep my eye's peeled and I'll get out the first chance I get.


Let's not take chances in the rain, ok? Besides, I have a set of logs you collected some time in the last 24hrs. They seem to have been done from ~2500rpms or so. I'll graph them up tonight.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Let's not take chances in the rain, ok? Besides, I have a set of logs you collected some time in the last 24hrs. They seem to have been done from ~2500rpms or so. I'll graph them up tonight.


cool. I was going to try to get you lower rpms than that but I think those should work, especially given the crappy weather right now.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I dont want to spoil it until my final review but.... I will say there is no compromise from k03 to f23t as far as getting into the meat of the power. In fact, I feel its a lot better.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I agree that this blows the k03 out of the water. My biggest issue has been normal driving drivability. I'm 90% sure it's the Maestro tune, but can't say for sure. It almost seems like it's a stock file tuned only for WOT. Like there was literally nothing else done to the file.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> I agree that this blows the k03 out of the water. My biggest issue has been normal driving drivability. I'm 90% sure it's the Maestro tune, but can't say for sure. It almost seems like it's a stock file tuned only for WOT. Like there was literally nothing else done to the file.


Check and see if you have the latest revision... It looks to me like there has been an update to the file C. TAPP is hosting...


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Dan - It's still our original actuator set for the controversial 12psi. Bronson at DriverMotorsport described the tuning process as challenging, which is one of the intents of that setting. If a tuner's got the chops to properly map this turbo, then chances are good that they are competent in all other aspects. Tuners that can't/don't have no business anywhere near our products.
> 
> The turbo is plenty capable of producing the boost. But boost onset has always been my priority, so I'm eager to see brokenpart's logs taken from a lower start.



It looks very good, and to have that much control shows they have put in some hard work. I was more curious as to whether , like the Me7 ecu above 22.5 you've run into the same issues with control.. How ever you cut it though it looks like it's doing the business.. I just love how capable the TFSI turbos are...


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Pure.Dope said:


> I agree that this blows the k03 out of the water. My biggest issue has been normal driving drivability. I'm 90% sure it's the Maestro tune, but can't say for sure. It almost seems like it's a stock file tuned only for WOT. Like there was literally nothing else done to the file.


Not my experience at all... Gobs of power everywhere.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

This is a very capable turbo. My car was tuned in 88 degree weather at 25-28 psi max hold and spike. Now in the 40s it will hold 28-31 psi.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

I don't mean power isn't there whenever I want, it is. And don't get me wrong, I can adjust things as I see fit. I just have a few small issues w/ jerky DSG shifts, DV/Wastegate flutter(maybe this is normal idk), and general weirdness especially in D mode. And who knows, maybe the DSG tune is crap. Not sure really what the issue is. Otherwise everythings perfectly fine. I beat on this thing daily.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Beachbuggy said:


> It looks very good, and to have that much control shows they have put in some hard work. I was more curious as to whether , like the Me7 ecu above 22.5 you've run into the same issues with control.. How ever you cut it though it looks like it's doing the business.


The FSI cars in the US have the 9.1 version of Motronic. And that series of ECUs has its own way of scaling the MAP sensor output which can be reworked to allow use of a 3bar sensor more easily. This is what's installed in brokenpart's car. The interesting challenge with the "3bar mod" is that while the ECU is compatible with readings at this level, it can't be mapped for them. Odd but true.

Anyway, here are the latest logs, giving me a little taste of the boost onset figures I crave:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Alright... enough with the lies already. This is what Driver Motorsport and Frakenturbo have had me do behind the scenes to get the results I've been getting. I'm not proud but the truth needed to surface sometime.





















































This is an action shot my buddy took of me trying to smooth out the graphs:










I'm sorry all of you had to find out this way.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

You beast, you. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Just a heads up guys.

My stage 2 southbend clutch is starting to slip. Claims to hold 400 tq. Slips with heavy boost onset at about 3500rpm. Gonna have it yanked out and see if they will warranty it, since it comes w/ a 12 month warranty.

Since Brokenparts and myself both have had this setup fail - I do not recommend it for the F23T setup.

If they won't warranty it out, I will be going RSR from the trusty boys at HS Tuning.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> Just a heads up guys.
> 
> My stage 2 southbend clutch is starting to slip. Claims to hold 400 tq. Slips with heavy boost onset at about 3500rpm. Gonna have it yanked out and see if they will warranty it, since it comes w/ a 12 month warranty.
> 
> ...


Doh!!!! Not what I wanted to hear. I was hoping mine was truly a "fluke".


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> Doh!!!! Not what I wanted to hear. I was hoping mine was truly a "fluke".



It's possible !!!

I dont drag my clutch AT ALL. The only time I deliver it a beating is when it's fully engaged and I give a good WOT romp. Nothing that it shouldn't be able to withstand.

It also could be the cooler weather we are having here in Cleveland, and the hydraulic system loses a bit of pressure from the cold. I did bleed it out a ton, it helped BARELY, but it still slips in 4th-6th if I go WOT.

If they warranty it, I am going to see about paying the difference to go Stage 3 endurance, which can hold over 500tq. I don't care about pedal feel. It just needs to not die on me in 6 months.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Is either of you running a limited slip differential?


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## big_c02 (Mar 7, 2013)

Wow. Is there any clutch available for us that can hold up for a DD? Or is OEM the only way to go?>


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

derZeck said:


> Swapped out my 110bar valve for a 150bar
> 
> Stupid low early revision valves
> 
> ...


Did the valve fix your issues?


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Is either of you running a limited slip differential?


I am... wavetrac.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> It's possible !!!
> 
> I dont drag my clutch AT ALL. The only time I deliver it a beating is when it's fully engaged and I give a good WOT romp. Nothing that it shouldn't be able to withstand.
> 
> ...


They wanted $500 when I asked to upgrade to stage 3.


----------



## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> They wanted $500 when I asked to upgrade to stage 3.


Scam artists.... the Stage 2 doesnt hold 400lbs of tq....


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

jhines_06gli said:


> Did the valve fix your issues?


Nope, did some logging and Taylor is sending me a reflash


----------



## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Jeff, I don't know who you are or where you come from, but this is a thread for discussing FrankenTurbo. Not for hawking your competing products. *Also, the statement that bigger wheels can't be installed is hooey. If we felt bigger wheels would provide our customers a better product, we'd design them and then fit them. But the extensive testing we've done with wheel design has led us to the unique components in our turbo. We went for what's best, not simply what would fit.*


Whoa! 

I'm so glad I came back to see what was going on in here... Am I surprised at all that Doug is making claims almost as stupid as his "Appalachiaesqe" marketing theme. 

You wouldn't engineer anything, because YOU haven't engineered anything to begin with. 

You wouldn't put a larger compressor in it because the turbo would fail to function properly. 

Unique? No...nothing you have done is unique. 

Before you knocked off Scroll Products designs and began to have the Chinese build "your" design people had applied compressors up to T3 series... and guess what? They broke the shafts, they didn't spool, they prematurely failed, etc. etc. 

But go ahead, you make that bigger "wheel" and show me that you can reinvent someone else's wheel. eace:


----------



## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> Whoa!
> 
> I'm so glad I came back to see what was going on in here... Am I surprised at all that Doug is making claims almost as stupid as his "Appalachiaesqe" marketing theme.
> 
> ...


You sir are a trolling dbag, u should run on home, I think I hear mama gonzo calling you, in case u cant see, the big boys in here are actually discussing hardware and software, issues and solutions. I dont see anyone focusing on why ft is better that gtt, or why they bought ft over gtt. its people running what they built, ur bad for gonzo business, and are single handedly the reason I would not buy from him

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

DMVDUB said:


> Whoa!
> 
> I'm so glad I came back to see what was going on in here... Am I surprised at all that Doug is making claims almost as stupid as his "Appalachiaesqe" marketing theme.
> 
> ...


I am currently running a larger compressor and turbine. And initial results show that it is working well. 371bhp @ 17 psi . And the first unit was Been driven hard at 1.8bar making full boost about 300-400rpm later than stock. It is possible to fit larger wheels providing remain within there effecient zone, all current hybrids use an existing stock turbine , we use a larger one which has proven to work.

If you don't believe me then look at the loba 4xx hybrid 440+bhp..


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## ohDirka (Jul 13, 2012)

vegamotion said:


> ur bad for gonzo business, and are single handedly the reason I would not buy from him


x2


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Beachbuggy said:


> I am currently running a larger compressor and turbine. And initial results show that it is working well. 371bhp @ 17 psi . And the first unit was Been driven hard at 1.8bar making full boost about 300-400rpm later than stock. It is possible to fit larger wheels providing remain within there effecient zone, all current hybrids use an existing stock turbine , we use a larger one which has proven to work.
> 
> If you don't believe me then look at the loba 4xx hybrid 440+bhp..


You missed my point. It's not just about slapping a different "wheel" on and hoping for the best. I know what you have done, I follow you on Facebook. My point was Doug, isn't engineering anything. You are and so is this other company. Doug took what Jeff said twisted it around and said the same ting. 


Doug copied someone else, you Beachbuggy Turbo https://www.facebook.com/beach.buggy.10 on the other hand have don all kinds of interesting things. 


vegamotion,

I'm not trolling a damned thing. He's arguing a point in a circle. He is also arguing things that don't have anything to do with his business model. He didn't design anything, he used a design already made and had the Chinese make a cheaper version. That is all. So when he says, he would have his lab test the perfect setup to com up with whatever, it's a lie. Do your homework before running your mouth. Beachbuggy is a very good user to follow on hybrid turbos since they come up with great stuff. 

The hybrid K03 / K04 stuff has been going on a long time. Even the fist Eliminator kits could be somewhat on the line of "K03/K04" hybrids since they used K03/K04 turbines to spool a garrett compressor. There's also been random builders putting all different size compressors on the K0(X) turbines o make a bolt-on hybrid.

It's really as of recent (2-3years) that the K03/K04 hybrids have figured out how to use the K0(x) housings with the proper compressor to achieve better than some T3 "big turbo" performance.


----------



## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

I wonder why precision and garrett and turbonetics and hks dont havr these issue... and sorry not going to poimt to any specifics but its pretty crazy to hear a gonzo supporter tell anyone to develop thier own anything.... 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Dan - It's still our original actuator set for the controversial 12psi. Bronson at DriverMotorsport described the tuning process as challenging, which is one of the intents of that setting. If a tuner's got the chops to properly map this turbo, then chances are good that they are competent in all other aspects. Tuners that can't/don't have no business anywhere near our products.
> 
> The turbo is plenty capable of producing the boost. But boost onset has always been my priority, so I'm eager to see brokenpart's logs taken from a lower start.











*SLAPPY DUNBAR!*

http://forums.vwvertex.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=95
*^^^Heres a nice technical discussion with regards to Doug's actuator problems; complete with empirical testing* 

*Below are some real gems for your reading pleasure, OR 'Slappy Dunbar's' Greatest Misses!*
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5377139-Frankenturbo-Unitronic-OVERBOOST-PROBLEMS!!!/page5

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...p-sensor-who-s-done-this-who-s-open-to-trying
*^^^This one is particularly cute; especially coming from a guy who questions the tuning abilities of one of the best tuners in the game. Bah! Who needs to adjust ignition timing via software!?*

http://www.fastdubs.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-21043.html
*^^^Another happy FT customer here*

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f127/petes-polo-goes-big-87742.html
*^^^Some chap down under had great success with his FT, AFTER swapping the wastegate actuator for an OEM unit. I've posted a couple of photos below, that I borrowed from this thread that illustrate the subpar specification of the FT actuator as compared to an OEM actuator. You can see that the FT actuator barely opens the wastegate flap.*








*OEM^^^*









*FT^^^*


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

vegamotion said:


> I wonder why precision and garrett and turbonetics and hks dont havr these issue... and sorry not going to poimt to any specifics but *its pretty crazy to hear a gonzo supporter tell anyone to develop thier own anything....
> *
> Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


And why would this be? do tell...opcorn:


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

I thought we were done with this?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

No kidding.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Brokenparts said:


> I thought we were done with this?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk





bificus99 said:


> No kidding.


It'll be over when Doug owns up to own mistakes, and quits deflecting blame in a disingenuous manner.

I could post dozens more threads backing up my assertions. Did either of you read anything I posted, or are you simply dismissing me as a "hater" because I'm not drinking the FT KoolAid?


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## bengone1 (Jun 17, 2003)

Rod Ratio said:


> It'll be over when Doug owns up to own mistakes, and quits deflecting blame in a disingenuous manner.
> 
> I could post dozens more threads backing up my assertions. Did either of you read anything I posted, or are you simply dismissing me as a "hater" because I'm not drinking the FT KoolAid?


Kool-aid? It is a budget turbo upgrade with a two year warranty. No one owes you jack. You have an opinion and nothing will change it. So piss-off and let the thread continue.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Rod Ratio said:


> It'll be over when Doug owns up to own mistakes, and quits deflecting blame in a disingenuous manner.
> 
> I could post dozens more threads backing up my assertions. Did either of you read anything I posted, or are you simply dismissing me as a "hater" because I'm not drinking the FT KoolAid?


Search the internet on how many people had problems with VW, Ford, GM, etc. Anything mass produced will have some issues every once in a while. Those dissatisfied are always more vocal than those content. 

I take your opinion with a grain of salt, I base my opinions on real life experiences. Doug from FT has been nothing but helpful with my install, even took care of something I installed backwards. Taylor at doTuning also has been nothing but helpful. I honestly have no idea what I am doing with my setup, and both of these guys answer my calls/emails/texts to answer my stupid questions.

So those reading this thread, form your own opinions after talking to Doug yourself. Do not rely on the hearsay of others, be it a good or bad review.

Most of us in this thread are hear to share information on a common build, if you are not here to promote the wealth of knowledge of this build..... get the **** out


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

I come on this thread to check for progress not to hear someone cry about some past bs. Go blog it dude. 

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

*MORE LIES DOCUMENTED* this one is extra juicy

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.719601041389208.1073741831.641275339221779&type=1












Copy Take Steal - CTS Turbo
September 27 

In August 2013, Bronson Charles Dixon established Driver Motorsport.

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Florida/Pinellas-County-FL/Bronson-Charles-Dixon.3226870.html











Bronson was new to the VW/Audi scene and purchased his MK5 GTI back in April 2012. His first modification was to get an ECU remap from the company he would ultimately work for, APR.

"I picked up my 2008 GTI in April of 2012 at Lokey VW in Clearwater Florida. After the first test drive I was hooked, I was previously considering an 8th generation Si and after testing out the torque and fit and finish of my GTI I decided not to call back the Honda dealership and signed the paper work for the GTI."

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171270



















Copy Take Steal - CTS Turbo
September 27 

As a former Florida resident, he sought to establish himself by offering his services to members of that region in the Gulf Coast Euros club. It wasn’t long before members asked him to compare his offerings to those of his former employer, APR.












Copy Take Steal - CTS Turbo
September 27 

Even looking at the Driver Motorsport webpage, you see references to development times long beyond Bronson's involvement in the VW community and his employment at APR.



Copy Take Steal - CTS Turbo
September 27 

What is puzzling is that during his tenure at APR, Bronson did not work as a calibrator or even in the engineering department. His functions were to man the help desk in the sales department. Meanwhile, other hardware companies were misled as to the breadth of his knowledge.












Copy Take Steal - CTS Turbo
September 27 

What's also interesting is that publicly, Driver Motorsport states that they are a Florida-based operation, the company information indicates a location in Opelika, AL.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Wow, that is juicy... Someone that smoked pot as a kid, bought a car, lived somewhere, and decided to tune cars for a living.

Call the newspapers! 


Come on man... these personal attacks are lame.


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

Brokenparts said:


> Wow, that is juicy... Someone that smoked pot as a kid, bought a car, lived somewhere, and decided to tune cars for a living.
> 
> Call the newspapers!
> 
> ...


I'm a neutral party here...and I agree with you 100%


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Brokenparts said:


> Wow, that is juicy... Someone that smoked pot as a kid, bought a car, lived somewhere, and decided to tune cars for a living.
> 
> Call the newspapers!
> 
> ...





suffocatemymind said:


> I'm a neutral party here...and I agree with you 100%


Obviously neither of you followed the very clear story line documenting Doug's lies in the highlighted forum posts..


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Rod Ratio said:


> Obviously neither of you followed the very clear story line documenting Doug's lies in the highlighted forum posts..


Has VW produce a 100% flawless product since day 1? 
Apple?
Bosch?
Sony?

Just food for thought when you start bashing a product/company. 

Is everything you do 100% perfect, every time? If so, welcome back Jesus!!!


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

derZeck said:


> Has VW produce a 100% flawless product since day 1?
> Apple?
> Bosch?
> Sony?
> ...


Agreed...

Doug has been accusing Gonzo Tuning of being incompetent, when in reality his actuators on the 1.8T hybrids never have a consistent crack pressure; which makes them impossible to write a CANNED tune for. Consequently, every tuner has resorted to using an Mbc to bandaid the issue. 

If he was honest, nobody would be arguing here. Apparently Doug believes HE IS Jesus Christ 

Have you read ANY of the links posted? It's all there in black and white


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## bengone1 (Jun 17, 2003)

derZeck said:


> Is everything you do 100% perfect, every time? If so, welcome back Jesus!!!


Nice!


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

Rod Ratio said:


> Obviously neither of you followed the very clear story line documenting Doug's lies in the highlighted forum posts..


I've read all of that stuff before. Everyone knows or has access to know. And I can't say that you don't present convincing and/or true data. Bringing that stuff up in this thread (and everywhere else) over and over again is simply annoying. If Doug or his products have caused you misfortune personally, why don't you take it up with him over a phone call or email?

It's not like people have ignored what you or others have said and it's not like these are all ground-breaking discoveries. Just give it a rest dude. And don't accuse me of ignorance - I clearly do more reading than posting.

At the end of the day, the F23 is showing pretty cool results on these FSI engines, which is why I - and I'm sure many others - follow this thread.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

suffocatemymind said:


> *(1)
> It's not like people have ignored what you or others have said and it's not like these are all ground-breaking discoveries. Just give it a rest dude. And(2) don't accuse me of ignorance - I clearly do more reading than posting.
> 
> (3)At the end of the day, the F23 is showing pretty cool results on these FSI engines, which is why I - and I'm sure many others - follow this thread.*


*

(1) Although you, myself, and all the other 1.8T guys might be familiar with Doug's wastegate actuator issues, and his deflection of the aforementioned by SMEARING Gonzo Tuning every chance he gets, simply becaus Gonzo, and Marcus Aurelius brought the actuator issue to the forefront. None of these guys do. All they know is that Doug claims that Gonzo can't tune; which is very far from the truth. I'm attempting to share the backstory; since Doug feels he is somehow immune from his own follies, and lies.

(2) Don't insinuate that my statements are bunk; when you've already admitted they are not.

(3) I agree. I was a supporter of FT for YEARS until he started smearing my friend to hide his own screwups. This thread can carry on, and I wish everyone well with their setups.*


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Rod Ratio said:


> Agreed...
> 
> Doug has been accusing Gonzo Tuning of being incompetent, when in reality his actuators on the 1.8T hybrids never have a consistent crack pressure; which makes them impossible to write a CANNED tune for. Consequently, every tuner has resorted to using an Mbc to bandaid the issue.
> 
> ...


Weird, when we were diagnosing an issue with my tune, we ran the car off of actuator pressure. Ran perfect at 12psi, consistently. ended up being an issue with my car. But the actuator works perfectly. 

Again, everything you do is 100% perfect? 
Because only Jesus could cast the stones you are throwing. 

I would love to come to your work and point out all your flaws and short comings. Oh wait, your Jesus and have no flaws.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Yep. Get this garbage out of the thread. Point has been stated. Next. 

Guy seems to be doing a pretty damn good job tuning these cars that are new to him and that's a bad thing?

Terrible arguments here in the attempt to sabotage this product.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Lotsa Gonzo hate in here the last couple of days, eh? Maybe they should change their slogan..."Gonzo Tuning -- We're ANGRY!" And that was a nice touch trying to defame a competitor who's showing up you fine folks with proper tuning. Stay classy you crazy Gonzo kids! In the meantime here's something a "tuner" like Gonzo still seems to not be able to do:











And, once again, DriverMotorsport did this on that horrible, horrible 12psi actuator that "never has consistent crack pressure".


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

So, again, Doug is terrible, yet he has a product producing desirable results. DM is terrible as well, also producing desirable results. Weird. 

What is it with all of these claims lately?

Finish making your product fellas and "blow the completion away" with the product and service. 

People will follow you if it's good and if you haven't already lost too many people with your poor actions. 

I would have a hard time making a purchase from you knowing all of this talk has still been allowed to continue. I know I would have lost my job by now if I acted this way toward a competitor. Good luck to you. Now why don't you go try building up your own thread since there isn't too mug discussion going on in there right now.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

gonzo and the other "muppets"
FFS please stop with all this shyte and hate towards Doug/FT

Its got more than a little tired.. and you too Doug, Stop bickering back.

It makes you all look like petty kids

Grow the fcuk up ALL OF YOU


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

badger5 said:


> gonzo and the other "muppets"
> FFS please stop with all this shyte and hate towards Doug/FT
> 
> Its got more than a little tired.. and you too Doug, Stop bickering back.
> ...


Give me a f_u_cking break, Bill.

Doug starts the attacks and tries to talk sh!t on Gonzo Tunign every chance he gets, and you give him a free pass?

You come into these forums telling other tuners how to do their job as well. How about you grow up and stop telling people what to do.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Both gonzo and ft are great value buys as they come with free drama.


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## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

alexj87 said:


> Both gonzo and ft are great value buys as they come with free drama.


Haha


----------



## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Gonzzz said:


> Give me a f_u_cking break, Bill.
> 
> Doug starts the attacks and tries to talk sh!t on Gonzo Tunign every chance he gets, and you give him a free pass?
> 
> You come into these forums telling other tuners how to do their job as well. How about you grow up and stop telling people what to do.



Seriously - You are the prick who needs to grow up... 


I have seen your attitude and posts for months.... Perthetic is what you come across as. /End Of

You BOTH keep bickering... and thats Perthetic.. BOTH... Geddit.. 

Neither of you are coming across well... 

So........ Listen... and take note...

When you and he contiually bicker, its reflects on you BOTH Negatively


----------



## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Oh look, fighting words.

Where is your forum etiquette now?


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

So how many threads do you see APR and REVO directly attacking each other?

Does REVO go in and start bashing APR when they release a new product?

So why is this happening here? Grow the fawk up Gonzo (and nut swingers) and stay out of this thread, you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion

:banghead:


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## Onese1f (Sep 16, 2008)

Well, I WAS going to consider a ko3/ko4 hybrid from either of these two companies.

Think I'll just stick with a KO4 kit from APR. 

Your childish banter on a ****ing internet forum makes you both look like idiots, FWIW. :beer:


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

derZeck said:


> So how many threads do you see APR and REVO directly attacking each other?
> 
> Does REVO go in and start bashing APR when they release a new product?
> 
> ...


N00b  http://www.goapr.com/revo/


Onese1f said:


> Well, I WAS going to consider a ko3/ko4 hybrid from either of these two companies.
> 
> Think I'll just stick with a KO4 kit from APR.
> 
> Your childish banter on a ****ing internet forum makes you both look like idiots, FWIW. :beer:


APR is a solid company, with great products :beer:


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Rod Ratio said:


> N00b  http://www.goapr.com/revo/
> 
> 
> APR is a solid company, with great products :beer:


Yes I know APR posted that on THEIR site. What I do not find is where they slander them on a public forum, like this one. 

You don't see Chris Butcher (from REVO/Stasis) going to APR threads bashing their products. 

Make your claims of your product on your own medium, you can even bash others if you want on your own medium.


----------



## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

A while back APR and REVO would get into a little match on these boards from time to time. The mods came in an separated them back then. Said play nice.
:beer:


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

derZeck said:


> Yes I know APR posted that on THEIR site. What I do not find is where they slander them on a public forum, like this one.
> 
> You don't see Chris Butcher (from REVO/Stasis) going to APR threads bashing their products.
> 
> Make your claims of your product on your own medium, you can even bash others if you want on your own medium.


http://www.goapr.com/revo/code.html
http://www.goapr.com/unitronic/
http://www.goapr.com/giac/


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

derZeck said:


> Yes I know APR posted that on THEIR site. What I do not find is where they slander them on a public forum, like this one.
> 
> You don't see Chris Butcher (from REVO/Stasis) going to APR threads bashing their products.
> 
> Make your claims of your product on your own medium, you can even bash others if you want on your own medium.


:laugh: you n00bs really have no ****ing clue do you!?

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Stasi...-selling-scam-Securities-Fraud-Risky-I-922536

Edit: Chris is a total tool BTW


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Rod Ratio said:


> :laugh: you n00bs really have no ****ing clue do you!?
> 
> http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Stasi...-selling-scam-Securities-Fraud-Risky-I-922536
> 
> Edit: Chris is a total tool BTW


Yes, ripoffreport.com, the pillar of accurate and unbiased opinion. 

Chris has always done me good


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Gonzzz said:


> http://www.goapr.com/revo/code.html
> http://www.goapr.com/unitronic/
> http://www.goapr.com/giac/


Interesting, you just further proved my point. They are stating their claims on THEIR page, not on a public forum in a thread discussing a competitors build


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

stasis may be a bunch of frauds, but wtf is wrong with Chris?


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

derZeck said:


> Interesting, you just further proved my point. They are stating their claims on THEIR page, not on a public forum in a thread discussing a competitors build


Those are all court documents; not an opinion. It's all public record, n00b


mrbikle said:


> stasis may be a bunch of frauds, but wtf is wrong with Chris?


Revo and Stasis are partners, birds of a feather flock together


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

yea if you say so guy.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

mrbikle said:


> yea if you say so guy.


They say so dummy

http://stasisrevo.com/


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

I am aware of the partnership, just have objection to your blanket statement about Chris.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

mrbikle said:


> I am aware of the partnership, just have objection to your blanket statement about Chris.


He's a douche, and always has been since his days with AWE. He's a perfect fit for the Revo/Stasis paradigm IMO.


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

you're thinking of a different chris.... Chris Butcher has always been a local to MD/WV.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

mrbikle said:


> you're thinking of a different chris.... Chris Butcher has always been a local to MD/WV.


You're right. The guy I was referring to is certainly native to pennsylvania :laugh:


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Rod Ratio said:


> He's a douche, and always has been since his days with AWE. He's a perfect fit for the Revo/Stasis paradigm IMO.


Only douches I see around here are the Gonzo nutswingers


----------



## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

derZeck said:


> Only douches I see around here are the Gonzo nutswingers


I'm a douche and don't have gonzo


----------



## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

alexj87 said:


> I'm a douche and don't have gonzo


You're welcome?


----------



## CoastieDubr (Jun 1, 2013)

This is so Lame....:facepalm: Get back On Topic!?:banghead:


----------



## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

so basically we have to get custom tunes for these things depending on the setup of course. No vendors have really experimented with these things in terms of "stage" tunes right?


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

sturat_7 said:


> so basically we have to get custom tunes for these things depending on the setup of course. No vendors have really experimented with these things in terms of "stage" tunes right?


Unfortuantley their isnt a lot of choices with tuners right now. Basically you have Eurodyne and try your luck at tuning yourself with a base file or find a customer tuner like DoTuning or Driver Motorsport. I have had great success with Driver Motorsport. I think he is running a sale on his tune right now too.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

MK6727 said:


> The Driver Motorsport tune will be a turn key software solution. No MBC, no weird MAF issues, no running out of LPFP, 100% drivable just like OEM using nothing but the ECU and an HPFP as the only fueling addition.


I'm fairly certain the current F23T DriverMotorsport software requires an upgraded fuel rail pressure relief valve such as this one. Anyone interested in the product should confirm exact requirements with the tuner.


----------



## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I'm fairly certain the current F23T DriverMotorsport software requires an upgraded fuel rail pressure relief valve such as this one. Anyone interested in the product should confirm exact requirements with the tuner.


dont forget the Golf R map sensor too.


----------



## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

MK6727 said:


> The Driver Motorsport tune will be a turn key software solution. No MBC, no weird MAF issues, no running out of LPFP, 100% drivable just like OEM using nothing but the ECU and an HPFP as the only fueling addition. Driver Motorsport is working daily with Frankenturbo sharing data to accomplish this. Final dyno data will be on December 2nd and there will be a completely proven and reliable solution.


Good then maybe the trolls will leave:banghead:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Anybody got a built motor? 'Cause I think our little ole F23T might be able to beat that Loba.


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

I have a built motor. My car might be at ffe soon. Maybe u and ed can work something out.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Anybody got a built motor? 'Cause I think our little ole F23T might be able to beat that Loba.


Really need to see air flows to judge that! I'm only saying as those 2 graphs only show that you're making less boost for less DC..


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Beachbuggy said:


> Really need to see air flows to judge that! I'm only saying as those 2 graphs only show that you're making less boost for less DC..



Mmmm, I'm thinking a better way to judge is on the basis of testing. As covered here earlier, the MAF accuracy values degrade with increasing airflow.


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Mmmm, I'm thinking a better way to judge is on the basis of testing. As covered here earlier, the MAF accuracy values degrade with increasing airflow.


Very fair point, but I feel unless you have identical spec'd actuators then n75dc doesn't really show much, although I do believe the lower the dc you run the less air is diverted and less of a "leak" 

Shame the maf readings aren't so good to make comparison.. 

How do your turbine/ compressor wheels compare to the loba 400?


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Mmmm, I'm thinking a better way to judge is on the basis of testing. As covered here earlier, the MAF accuracy values degrade with increasing airflow.


really?

I know it does'nt cross correlate between cars with different intakes due to their maf tube diameters and fitments.... but on same car.. its a good gauge of injested airflow, vs boost etc......... More airflow for same boost shows more compressor flow..


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

yeah, I'm finding that the MAF values with my customers are rarely of value. Frustrating. I think it's a result of the hardware irregularities you mentioned and also to in-software adjustments that are done to work around performance issues that arise when the numbers escalate. No matter, really. The F23-series turbos can produce 280+ grams/second. That's plenty for the customers we're going after.


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## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

kinda interested to see the media from the driver motorsport tune


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

sturat_7 said:


> kinda interested to see the media from the driver motorsport tune


What kind of media? Video and stuff?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Brokenparts said:


> What kind of media? Video and stuff?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk



Intense promotional videos with high production value, of your car doing INSANE STUNTS. Such as rock climbing, launching off ramps, donuts, rally racing, African Safari wildlife video shoots, South American jungle exploration, and downhill skiing. 

That sort of media.

Please provide ASAP.


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

xtravbx said:


> Intense promotional videos with high production value, of your car doing INSANE STUNTS. Such as rock climbing, launching off ramps, donuts, rally racing, African Safari wildlife video shoots, South American jungle exploration, and downhill skiing.
> 
> That sort of media.
> 
> Please provide ASAP.


How about stuff like this to start?


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

Needs more jumps

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

mrbikle said:


> Needs more jumps
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


I did some sweet jumps that day...


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Just a heads up -

I'm selling a BRAND NEW South Bend Stage 2 Endurance clutch kit. Everything you need.

You're going to need this if you go F23T.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Some of you may remember I posted up a log/graph of my REVO S3 K04 setup a while back. After a bunch of of diagnostic work I determined (hat tip to GolfRS) that my low pressure pump was the culprit. I added a modified TTRS pump (w/stock controller) and now how good, solid in tank fuel pressure. I don't have a boost log yet but I did manage to log the air mass on the way back from JHines' house (he installed the modded pump for me. Here are the results. 








It sounds like the FT should generate ~40 more g/s (~50HP) than my K04. I will say that if you get any turbo upgrade and find [in order] your rail pressure dropping, injection duty cycle spiking, and wastegate opening; take a good look at block 103 under load and make sure your in tank pump is cutting the mustard. 
Cheers and good luck,
Smithers


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The conversation in this thread is definitely dominated by the transversal-fitment FSI guys, but that doesn't mean development for the longitudinal Audi B7 is lagging. Here is a dyno courtesy of Epic Tuning, who plan to have a range of FrankenTurbo files to suit every build -- ambitious to modest. This dyno is for the latter crowd. It is based on stock injectors and fuel rail valve, and has stock intercoolers & exhaust as well. So in other words, this is what's possible when you simply swap the turbo at repair time:


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## Rambousn (Jun 28, 2012)

*Very impressed*

Recently I purchased and installed the Frankenturbo, I have been in pretty much constant contact with Doug (who has been extremely helpful). I have literally zero complaints, the turbo went into a '07 GTI and while doing the swap I also installed a Neuspeed FMIC, APR HPFP, ATP full race DP and Milltek catback. I have stock injectors and with the brief driving due to some more modifications/software editing (also with the guidance of Doug) being done, the F23t has blown me away. I have ran some logs and will be dyno tuning hopefully in early January; once finished I will post all figures and logs. I am simply posting to give a great shout out to the guys at Frankenturbo and to also give some more insight for those with possible hesitation on going K04, GT28RS and GT2871, this is in my opinion a much easier and smoother performing upgrade. Definitely upgrade the clutch, the stock will hold fine for a bit but if you really want to push it slipping happens quite easily. That is really all I have to say, I think they've done an amazing job developing this and look forward to hearing others experiences or advice on tunes.:thumbup:


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

What tune are you running?


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Interesting how everyone who actually owns the turbo feels about the same way..


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Rambousn said:


> Recently I purchased and installed the Frankenturbo, I have been in pretty much constant contact with Doug (who has been extremely helpful). I have literally zero complaints, the turbo went into a '07 GTI and while doing the swap I also installed a Neuspeed FMIC, APR HPFP, ATP full race DP and Milltek catback. I have stock injectors and with the brief driving due to some more modifications/software editing (also with the guidance of Doug) being done, the F23t has blown me away. I have ran some logs and will be dyno tuning hopefully in early January; once finished I will post all figures and logs. I am simply posting to give a great shout out to the guys at Frankenturbo and to also give some more insight for those with possible hesitation on going K04, GT28RS and GT2871, this is in my opinion a much easier and smoother performing upgrade. Definitely upgrade the clutch, the stock will hold fine for a bit but if you really want to push it slipping happens quite easily. That is really all I have to say, I think they've done an amazing job developing this and look forward to hearing others experiences or advice on tunes.:thumbup:


Also curious what software... Sounds like eurodyne if he doing software tweaks... I've had reasonable success with eurodyne, in that the car runs... But gas mileage has been bad, have yet to resolve a very sensitive DV causing a lot of boost dump (even at part throttle while cruising).

I recently installed a 3bar map and that seems to have changed some things... Feels more responsive, but can't quantify performance changes.

I just purchased Driver Motorsport's tune... Rs4 fuel valve will be going in next week, and then ill report my findings. You really can't beat a 15 day money back guarantee if it doesn't improve performance.:thumbup:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Rambousn said:


> Recently I purchased and installed the Frankenturbo, I have been in pretty much constant contact with Doug (who has been extremely helpful). I have literally zero complaints, the turbo went into a '07 GTI and while doing the swap I also installed a Neuspeed FMIC, APR HPFP, ATP full race DP and Milltek catback. I have stock injectors and with the brief driving due to some more modifications/software editing (also with the guidance of Doug) being done, the F23t has blown me away. I have ran some logs and will be dyno tuning hopefully in early January; once finished I will post all figures and logs. I am simply posting to give a great shout out to the guys at Frankenturbo and to also give some more insight for those with possible hesitation on going K04, GT28RS and GT2871, this is in my opinion a much easier and smoother performing upgrade. Definitely upgrade the clutch, the stock will hold fine for a bit but if you really want to push it slipping happens quite easily. That is really all I have to say, I think they've done an amazing job developing this and look forward to hearing others experiences or advice on tunes.:thumbup:




:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

alexj87 said:


> Interesting how everyone who actually owns the turbo feels about the same way..


I can say that I'm very pleased with the turbo. It installed very easily, the coolant and oil lines didn't exactly fall into place, but mated up with little trouble.

The 90* elbow Doug supplies does a good job of allowing you to route the intake.

There are a few minor figment problems with the cts turbo intake... But we're solved with better t-bolt clamps vs the provided radiator clamps... I think it's cts turbo's intake versus the F23T

Performance wise... Holy ****, the car is incredibly fast (2006 A3). The turbo sounds way better since the turbo outlet silencer was removed on the FT. Spools like a champ, and it pretty much feels like the power is always available. You really experience the turbo kick with this setup.... Whereas the VRT that I helped my dad build... It actually drives more like an n/a car because the turbo spools so slowly (PT6265 on a 3.0L vr6 w/dsr256 cams). The VRT is hella fun because it sounds like a beast... But the FT on the 2.0T makes for a fun yet daily driver able car.

Only issue I can say I've had is with eurodyne software... I've tried replacing a lot of hardware because I was told I'm having hardware issues... But I've all but given up on it, because I feel like I don't have access or documentation to/for all the relevant tables. Someone starter than me needs to do a ME9 maestro tuning tutorial


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

xtravbx said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Do you get any DV flutter on your maestro tune? I heard you're very happy with yours. Care to share experiences?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majic said:


> Do you get any DV flutter on your maestro tune? I heard you're very happy with yours. Care to share experiences?



Yes I do have DV flutter at partial throttle, when I'm nearing boost (due to accelerator pedal pressure). Say I'm cruisiing at -10hg. If I accelerate and now I'm 0hg, maybe I even hit 1psi of boost, and then HOLD pedal pressure at the awkward state of the ECU thinking "Should I be releasing all pressure, let it build?" it can flutter. It also flutters sometimes coming off the throttle.

I am going to be installing the Go Fast Bits DV "hat" in a few days.

Otherwise, I am very happy with Eurodyne, and have tuned it a lot on my own. (Which is not for everyone, but I enjoy)


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> I just purchased Driver Motorsport's tune... Rs4 fuel valve will be going in next week...You really can't beat a 15 day money back guarantee if it doesn't improve performance.:thumbup:


I thought this was really savvy of Bronson to offer this. My gut reaction was that he's confident in his product. :thumbup:


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

xtravbx said:


> Yes I do have DV flutter at partial throttle, when I'm nearing boost (due to accelerator pedal pressure). Say I'm cruisiing at -10hg. If I accelerate and now I'm 0hg, maybe I even hit 1psi of boost, and then HOLD pedal pressure at the awkward state of the ECU thinking "Should I be releasing all pressure, let it build?" it can flutter. It also flutters sometimes coming off the throttle.
> 
> I am going to be installing the Go Fast Bits DV "hat" in a few days.
> 
> Otherwise, I am very happy with Eurodyne, and have tuned it a lot on my own. (Which is not for everyone, but I enjoy)


Let us know how that DV upgrade goes. I've been reading on it, but never seen a good review from someone running an upgraded turbo


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Its going in tomorrow or Sunday. Showed up today. Looks solid. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

MK6727 said:


> I've had a customer that had the DV issue you're describing on previous software, then switched and it went away. That isn't enough to definitively say that the problem is identified but I have a suspicion of what is causing it. If it goes away without having to edit anything on my side when majic switches, then I've identified why that is happening on other software.
> 
> I do not think it is a hardware issue. Switching to a mechanical diverter valve will greatly reduce the issues though if my theory is correct.


I agree it is software related, but I can't afford to switch tunes. I already went from APR to Eurodyne...


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

So I finally got an upgraded HPFP. Install went great until the last bolt

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content









Pretty pissed, I had less than 5 in/lbs of torque on it when it happened.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Time to get a stud kit from eurocars. That sucks man.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Eurodyne-tuned F23L Mustang dyno*

Testing for the longitudinal fitment F23L turbo is coming along well. Here is a video of one of the test cars on the rollers:







This is a Mustang dyno, which explains the lengthy time for the measurement pull. And since the car is running stock intercoolers, that was a real challenge for the motor. Here is the sheet:











But you don't get the whole picture until intake air temperatures are factored. Here is the impact on intercooling of that heartbreaker Mustang dyno. One additional note: this pull was done in 4th gear, so the load on everything was really up there:











So does this mean the A4 guys have to upgrade or replace their intercoolers? Not at all. In fact, the 250+ all wheel hp result -- despite the harsh conditions -- show that the stock hardware is pretty darned good.

Stock injectors
Stock intercoolers
Eurodyne Maestro software
257 all wheel hp

:thumbup:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

derZeck said:


> Let us know how that DV upgrade goes. I've been reading on it, but never seen a good review from someone running an upgraded turbo



Did the install today - easy enough. Though getting to the DV is always a fun chore of reaching up at awkward angles from underneath the car.

Seems solid, I'd say throttle response is a bit quicker, no flutter so far - but only put about 10 miles on it. Holds boost well. I'll be doing a drive to Columbus tomorrow and will report back how it feels.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

xtravbx said:


> Did the install today - easy enough. Though getting to the DV is always a fun chore of reaching up at awkward angles from underneath the car.
> 
> Seems solid, I'd say throttle response is a bit quicker, no flutter so far - but only put about 10 miles on it. Holds boost well. I'll be doing a drive to Columbus tomorrow and will report back how it feels.


Awesome! Columbus, Ohio? I am up in Toledo


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Yep. I live in Cleve. So I drove back and forth from Columbus today. The go fast bits DV "hat" is a great little item. Smoothed out my boost across the board and killed all signs of DV flutter. I would highly recommend it to anyone with an aftermarket turbo making decent power. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## vw20tfsi (Nov 23, 2013)

*dotuning*

did anyone hit the dyno with dotuning


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

vw20tfsi said:


> did anyone hit the dyno with dotuning


Not yet, but I will be after the holidays.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

derZeck said:


> Not yet, but I will be after the holidays.




Sent you PM


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## vw20tfsi (Nov 23, 2013)

xtravbx said:


> Sent you PM


sorry i,m new at this but i have no messages inbox or on my personal email address


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

vw20tfsi said:


> sorry i,m new at this but i have no messages inbox or on my personal email address


He quoted me, thus the response was for me
As I am doing to you right now


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## vw20tfsi (Nov 23, 2013)

derZeck said:


> He quoted me, thus the response was for me
> As I am doing to you right now


oh sorry and thanks


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## ddsbread (May 23, 2010)

*Franken Turbo F23T review 07 fsi*

First off I'd like to say that my experience with Doug has been excellent he's helpful and was always available whenever I emailed him. I recently upgraded from a KO4 with a GIAC tune to a F23T with a driver motorsport tune and I'm very pleased with the results. Doug stayed till 1am getting the tune right and they did a great job. They eliminated low end boost flutter completely, the turbo keeps boosting until 4500rpm and then holds around 25psi from there. I have a 07 fsi with rods, cold air intake, a twintercooler, APR hpfp, S3 injectors, 3" downpipe n mid pipe into a 2n1/2" muffler with a high flow cat, AWE dv valve n a bunch of other little things. With the KO4 it dynoed around 310hp with the F23T the best pull was somewhere around 360 to 370hp and there is still some more tweaking to be done, I'm sure Doug will post some of the graphs. The only complaint that I have about the whole thing is I don't know why I didn't do it sooner.


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## Placker (Dec 24, 2013)

ddsbread said:


> with the F23T the best pull was somewhere around 360 to 370hp


Very Jealous. Nicely Done Sir.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Maybe someone got an extra FT last week they want to give me.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

ddsbread said:


> With the KO4 it dynoed around 310hp with the F23T the best pull was somewhere around 360 to 370hp and there is still some more tweaking to be done, I'm sure Doug will post some of the graphs. The only complaint that I have about the whole thing is I don't know why I didn't do it sooner.


This is a video edit of the two FSI cars tuned on DriverMotorsport software. Thanks to the car owners for their enthusiastic partnership. I greatly enjoyed the process and am really pleased with the results.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

As promised here is my REVO S3 K04 plot. WCF enabled although it was about ~68F when I pulled. I'm still experiencing the low end power loss even after the TTRS pump. I'll have to work with RT to clear it up. 








Boost/Timing:








Airflow:








Rail Pressure:








Cheers!


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## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

it would be nice to have somebody to tune this for me in FL. I think I could love the DriverMotorsport tune


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

SmithersSP said:


> As promised here is my REVO S3 K04 plot. WCF enabled although it was about ~68F when I pulled. I'm still experiencing the low end power loss even after the TTRS pump. I'll have to work with RT to clear it up.
> 
> Cheers!



Really dude, that is a very solid tune.

Not sure about the low end fuel / timing pull issue - but it looks very solid otherwise.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> Really dude, that is a very solid tune.


I agree. You're holding more than 20psi past redline. That's about the most I've ever seen a K04 do on a mainstream ECU file. And I don't see much indication of a "low end power loss". What do you mean by that?


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

anyone have a DO tuning tune that actually runs? I have been working with a guy locally and have yet to get it to work correctly.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Nope - but am interested to hear what's going on.

What sort of issues are you having?

I get misfires up top on my eurodyne tune after 5800rpm. I need to address that. But now it's freezing and winter and it will wait a bit. 

I may just toss in S3 injectors and call it a day.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

xtravbx said:


> Nope - but am interested to hear what's going on.
> 
> What sort of issues are you having?
> 
> ...


The misfiring isn't likely owing to the injectors -- unless you simply have poorly-functioning ones. What plug gap are you running? What boost at 5800rpms? How fresh are the coil-packs?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected]om said:


> The misfiring isn't likely owing to the injectors -- unless you simply have poorly-functioning ones. What plug gap are you running? What boost at 5800rpms? How fresh are the coil-packs?


New R8 coils, plugs gapped to about .22ish. I need to look at what boost I'm pushing up top.

I want to push a crapload of boost! Ha I'll rebuild the motor if I blow it up. But I don't want to blow it up from pinging!

Doug - I'll send you my latest file via email. See what you think and all that.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

mrbikle said:


> anyone have a DO tuning tune that actually runs? I have been working with a guy locally and have yet to get it to work correctly.


I do. You talk to Taylor yet?


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

The guy has a lot. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Based on the success we've seen with DriverMotorsport's stock injectors software, we've added them to our F23T product configuration page, where you can opt to add their software to your turbo purchase. We've also added the 136bar rail pressure relief valve as an available option for purchase. Price for the valve -- an OEM RS4 unit -- is $140. Here's a beauty shot:


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

Have those valves gone up in price? I got mine 2 years ago for $60


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

If a user has the factory 110bar crack valve that item really isn't optional IMO. [email protected] has them for a great price. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

high_octaneGTI said:


> Have those valves gone up in price? I got mine 2 years ago for $60


As far as I know, this valve has always cost approximately $150. A company called HPFPupgrade offers a comparable one for just over $100 here. We haven't yet tested this one, though.


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## high_octaneGTI (Nov 10, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> As far as I know, this valve has always cost approximately $150. A company called HPFPupgrade offers a comparable one for just over $100 here. We haven't yet tested this one, though.




Guess I got lucky lol

From doin a few searches online, $140 seems like a reasonable price


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

xtravbx said:


> New R8 coils, plugs gapped to about .22ish. I need to look at what boost I'm pushing up top.
> 
> I want to push a crapload of boost! Ha I'll rebuild the motor if I blow it up. But I don't want to blow it up from pinging!
> 
> Doug - I'll send you my latest file via email. See what you think and all that.


Careful what you wish for... This is from knock on bad gas, and there's no coming back from this . There's a big hole in the block, too.

You gotta pay to play, and can't be sad if your toys get broken in the process.

New motor on order... And... This one is getting forged pistons/rods.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

SmithersSP said:


> If a user has the factory 110bar crack valve that item really isn't optional IMO. [email protected] has them for a great price. :thumbup:


The 110 bar valves seem to just be on 06 and some 07's from what I'm finding. I was unfortunate to have a 110 in my 07, I now have the RS4 valve. Works like a charm


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## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

this thing will mate up to my usp 3" dp right?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majic said:


> Careful what you wish for... This is from knock on bad gas, and there's no coming back from this . There's a big hole in the block, too.
> 
> You gotta pay to play, and can't be sad if your toys get broken in the process.
> 
> New motor on order... And... This one is getting forged pistons/rods.




Ugh intense, dude. That sucks.

Details? How much is the new motor setting you back?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

sturat_7 said:


> this thing will mate up to my usp 3" dp right?


It has factory fitment, so it will mount up to anything that will connect to a K03 or K04. The turbo outlet doesn't have the turbo muffler (as in like the K04) so it requires a silicone adapter that you have to trim down (that doug provides).

All-in-all I still love this turbo... even though I know with pistons and rods I could easily go BT, this is more than satisfactory.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

xtravbx said:


> Ugh intense, dude. That sucks.
> 
> Details? How much is the new motor setting you back?


Details forthcoming. The car is sitting in my garage... 

I took my time and combed ebay/craigslist/other sources. Typically, a motor with 50-100k miles can be had for ~2000. A brand new motor is going to be around 4k. And a built motor with pistons/rods and all around hardened components will start at 5600 and the sky is the limit... 

If you get a used motor, be ready to inherit an ugly baby that you're ready to slap till it looks good. I'm going to do the valve seals, water pump, new bearings, and head studs... and look this thing over real good before I call it good.

But like anything this is as much a hobby as it is a means of transportation, and as much as I would like to justify it by saying it's making it more reliable... make no mistake, I'm paying for a damn hobby lol.


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## sturat_7 (Jan 6, 2003)

Thanks majic, I'm probably going to start my small build(350hp) when I'm finished with my bike. I still need a semi-reliable form of transportation. This turbo is going to be the choice for me when the time rolls around.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

mrbikle said:


> anyone have a DO tuning tune that actually runs? I have been working with a guy locally and have yet to get it to work correctly.


I'm running a .Do file, what's up?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I am posting two graphs which do an excellent job of illustrating the benefits of running a 136bar RS4 fuel rail return valve. They show two runs on identical software. The fuel rail pressure request is 130 in both instances, but without the upgraded valve, the pump was unable to meet requests. This resulted in uncomfortably high injector timing (seen in the lower graph). With the new valve in, rail pressure is up and injector timings are nicely reduced.











Because of this kind of testing, both GIAC and DriverMotorsport have found a solution for fueling our turbo on stock injectors: an inexpensive fuel rail valve upgrade paired with an HPFP modification. As I mentioned above, we sell this valve now as an option right on our F23T Product Configuration page.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I am posting two graphs which do an excellent job of illustrating the benefits of running a 136bar RS4 fuel rail return valve. They show two runs on identical software. The fuel rail pressure request is 130 in both instances, but without the upgraded valve, the pump was unable to meet requests. This resulted in uncomfortably high injector timing (seen in the lower graph). With the new valve in, rail pressure is up and injector timings are nicely reduced.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My car is having the timing belt done right now while I'm out of town @ HS Tuning. I just emailed them to see if they can swap this valve out while it's under the knife. Hopefully they can source one locally while I'm away.

I guess it's not an EASY job?


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## phillip1978 (Mar 6, 2012)

So any word on when GIAC will release their tune


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

phillip1978 said:


> So any word on when GIAC will release their tune


"in the coming weeks" is what i've heard. 

it doesnt seem like theyre ready yet. i'm going with DM for my tune


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Has anyone successfully been running this turbo with the support it needs without much hiccup?

If been on a following troll status and it seems progress has slowed down immensely since the launch of this kit. PLUS, competitors for this exact bracket of new systems is arising and their claims.... They might as well state in the title "heres this nee turbo we built that's bettee than frankenturbos f23 and we've thrown in all that you need to run this without busting knuckles and searching for needed software." Even though thats pretty much impossible to release an aftermarket system on that caliber without fail or hiccups.

Venting.....

Tax returns were suppose to cover this and all add ons necessary but im going to opt out and do some maintenance ahead of schedule. Im even thinking about throwing a p&p head in instead of going through the headaches of turbo upgrade.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

I had most if not all the supporting mods before going f23, with that in mind, it's been spot on, no surprises that weren't pleasant.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

alexj87 said:


> I had most if not all the supporting mods before going f23, with that in mind, it's been spot on, no surprises that weren't pleasant.


I also got maestro and paid to have it dyno tuned. Which costs, but better right than twice for my money


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Makes sense.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I love my F23T + setup.

I have NOT nailed down the misfires up top though, but will address that come warm weather. I could be just requesting too much boost for what the stock injectors can handle I suppose.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Howd the a3 pull it off?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

filthyillness said:


> ...competitors for this exact bracket of new systems is arising and their claims.... They might as well state in the title "heres this new turbo we built that's better than frankenturbos f23 and we've thrown in all that you need to run this without busting knuckles and searching for needed software."


As for the new competitors you may be seeing, do they offer any demonstration or proof of their claims? Better? How so? In product quality or backing? In customer service? In price? Even in power?

This thread has been running for months, with plenty of user feedback on software from Eurodyne, DriverMotorsport, Epic Tuning & GIAC. I'm talking about real data, not baseless claims. I'd say, do your research on the parties who claim to be better than we are. I think you'll find quite the opposite in just about any way imaginable.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> Howd the a3 pull it off?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk




Which one? I know some are running S3 injectors.

Which I may end up just running those, the RS4 fuel rail valve, and have my valves cleaned in the spring. I wish they weren't $500 a set.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

xtravbx said:


> Which one? I know some are running S3 injectors.
> 
> Which I may end up just running those, the RS4 fuel rail valve, and have my valves cleaned in the spring. I wish they weren't $500 a set.


I got my injectors when apr was running one of their many sales. Just 10% off iirc, hey 50 bucks is 50 bucks.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

I've had a fairly good build using do tuning. Turbo has performed quite well. Only weak point is the waste gate actuator, I got a bad one, was causing a lot of surging. I have a new Forge K04 actuator, going to set it to 7psi (same as factory K04)

I know at least two other FT owners having the same actuator issue. All three of us are using different tuners, with the exact same issue. 

Not bashing the product, like all things manufactured, there will be a failure rate. Luckily a new actuator is an easy fix.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

xtravbx said:


> I love my F23T + setup.
> 
> I have NOT nailed down the misfires up top though, but will address that come warm weather. I could be just requesting too much boost for what the stock injectors can handle I suppose.


I have stock injectors, I hold 28psi and spike at 32. No misfires. Plugs are gapped down to .025 though.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I ordered some S3 injectors. I'll put them in, in the spring, and blast the valves. Probably will put the RS4 fuel rail valve in too at that time. And the 3 bar MAP.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

derZeck said:


> I've had a fairly good build using do tuning. Turbo has performed quite well. Only weak point is the waste gate actuator, I got a bad one, was causing a lot of surging. I have a new Forge K04 actuator, going to set it to 7psi (same as factory K04)
> 
> I know at least two other FT owners having the same actuator issue. All three of us are using different tuners, with the exact same issue.
> 
> Not bashing the product, like all things manufactured, there will be a failure rate. Luckily a new actuator is an easy fix.



Proper tuning is also an easy fix for what is actually not a bad actuator, but simply a unique one. Tuners who are dependent upon K04 actuator hardware are simply gutting the F23T's power as a workaround for incomplete mapping.

I've said this before in other threads that chronically arise over our supposedly bad, untunable actuator: if a tuner can't support our product without asking the owner to alter it, they have no business "supporting" our turbos.


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

Its funny cause im looking to find a clean jetta GLI for this summer , the funniest part is that ive already bought my F23T whit Eurodyne package!!!

Can someone give me some advice on choosing the right water/meth system? (brand,model)

does someone ave already use windshield washer instead of boost juice?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Snow stage 2 maf system. Yes, windshield wiper fluid although I did add a but extra methanol to make it 60/40.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

The windshield washer fluid is the blue one not the red i guess?


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## Brokenparts (Sep 8, 2012)

Yes, only blue.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Proper tuning is also an easy fix for what is actually not a bad actuator, but simply a unique one. Tuners who are dependent upon K04 actuator hardware are simply gutting the F23T's power as a workaround for incomplete mapping.
> 
> I've said this before in other threads that chronically arise over our supposedly bad, untunable actuator: if a tuner can't support our product without asking the owner to alter it, they have no business "supporting" our turbos.


Then you need to terminate your relationship with DM, because they are seeing a lot of these "unique" actuators. 

Silly question, if there are so many unique actuators, how can a tuner support an off the shelf tune? They would have to adjust every tune to each actuator if they were all different. 

Again, I'm not here to bash you. Just sharing my trials in tribulations.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Oh, BTW just about every tuner is seeing this actuator issue. 
You place blame on the tuners, and all these experienced tuners place blame on the actuator.


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Proper tuning is also an easy fix *for what is actually not a bad actuator, but simply a unique one.* Tuners who are dependent upon K04 actuator hardware are simply gutting the F23T's power as a workaround for incomplete mapping.
> 
> I've said this before in other threads that chronically arise over our supposedly bad, untunable actuator: if a tuner can't support our product without asking the owner to alter it, they have no business "supporting" our turbos.





derZeck said:


> Then you need to terminate your relationship with DM, because they are seeing a lot of these "unique" actuators.
> 
> Silly question, if there are so many unique actuators, how can a tuner support an off the shelf tune? They would have to adjust every tune to each actuator if they were all different.
> 
> Again, I'm not here to bash you. Just sharing my trials in tribulations.


I dunno bra, sounds like a lotta broscience to me, js


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Who, when and where is this info at about bad/untunable actuators?

Is there a fix or alternative in thw works?

Anybody else smart enough to figure out to use another unit in place of said actuators that come with the f23 kit?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

filthyillness said:


> Who, when and where is this info at about bad/untunable actuators?
> 
> Is there a fix or alternative in thw works?
> 
> ...


I have a Forge K04 actuator on the way. 

Anyone looking to buy a FT setup, I highly recommend a Forge actuator BEFORE you install the turbo. It will save a lot of headaches, no matter what tuner you are going with. 
Not all the actuators are "unique" so an off the shelf tune may work for some. But I would not risk getting a "unique" one, that can cause a lot of surging.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

derZeck said:


> I have a Forge K04 actuator on the way.
> 
> Anyone looking to buy a FT setup, I highly recommend a Forge actuator BEFORE you install the turbo. It will save a lot of headaches, no matter what tuner you are going with.
> Not all the actuators are "unique" so an off the shelf tune may work for some. But I would not risk getting a "unique" one, that can cause a lot of surging.


But shouldn't the f23 be properly calibrated from the factory? 

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

steveo17 said:


> But shouldn't the f23 be properly calibrated from the factory?
> 
> Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


Should be, but that's not always the case. it's hit or miss with the actuators, so it's not worth the risk to your engine if you were to get a "unique" one.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Proper tuning is also an easy fix for what is actually not a bad actuator, but simply a unique one. Tuners who are dependent upon K04 actuator hardware are simply gutting the F23T's power as a workaround for incomplete mapping.
> 
> I've said this before in other threads that chronically arise over our supposedly bad, untunable actuator: if a tuner can't support our product without asking the owner to alter it, they have no business "supporting" our turbos.


Your actuators are not "untunable" by any means, however they are not consistent batch to batch, thus causing tuners to drop support for your product, or to be overwhelmed by "unique" issues that the customers will report and typically, go to the software vendor first. 

You 100% do have an issue with your hardware, without any doubt, as witnessed and proven by professional tuners, and your customers. So why do you continually point fingers at the tuners and making negative comments towards their abilities? Ive stood quiet for a while, but im sick of reading your comments, pointing at tuners. 

Get your head out of your ass Doug.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

I gladly would have paid extra to have 1)a factory K04 actuator or 2)a Forge K04 actuator. 

If you sold your kit with a actuator upgrade option, we would not think anything less of you or your company. Hell, I would give you mad respect if you acknowledged what we have already found and address the issue. 

Besides this, I am VERY happy with the product.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

derZeck said:


> I gladly would have paid extra to have 1)a factory K04 actuator or 2)a Forge K04 actuator.
> 
> If you sold your kit with a actuator upgrade option, we would not think anything less of you or your company. Hell, I would give you mad respect if you acknowledged what we have already found and address the issue.
> 
> Besides this, I am VERY happy with the product.



you have a F23T installed on your MK5 FSI?


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

steveo17 said:


> you have a F23T installed on your MK5 FSI?


Yes. Used doTuning for the tune.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

derZeck said:


> Yes. Used doTuning for the tune.


ok. i do too and i'm using DM for the tune.

it appears that i'm having an issue with the WGA where it may be cracking too high. is this an issue you were/are having too?



when did you get/install your f23?


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

can be seen here

disregard the overlay with the sensors, i was testing a "off brand" map sensor that proved to be not what it was supposed to be










Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

steveo17 said:


> can be seen here
> 
> disregard the overlay with the sensors, i was testing a "off brand" map sensor that proved to be not what it was supposed to be
> 
> ...


What happend to your map sensor? Suspected it was bad at first?


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

RaraK69 said:


> What happend to your map sensor? Suspected it was bad at first?


Got one which was supposed to be a 3 bar but it wasn't. 

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

*sorry for all the quotes but i only just found out about this. so ill answer the ones the stuck out to me from recent post*



derZeck said:


> I've had a fairly good build using do tuning. Turbo has performed quite well. Only weak point is the waste gate actuator, I got a bad one, was causing a lot of surging. I have a new Forge K04 actuator, going to set it to 7psi (same as factory K04)
> 
> I know at least two other FT owners having the same actuator issue. All three of us are using different tuners, with the exact same issue.
> 
> Not bashing the product, like all things manufactured, there will be a failure rate. Luckily a new actuator is an easy fix.


i was going to do the same but doug said that they set them all to 12psi before sending them out 



derZeck said:


> I have stock injectors, I hold 28psi and spike at 32. No misfires. Plugs are gapped down to .025 though.


thats a lot. id ask taylor to turn that thing down. but im gapped at .025 also. im suppose to be .026 but i didnt have a gauge for that. 



[email protected] said:


> Proper tuning is also an easy fix for what is actually not a bad actuator, but simply a unique one. Tuners who are dependent upon K04 actuator hardware are simply gutting the F23T's power as a workaround for incomplete mapping.
> 
> I've said this before in other threads that chronically arise over our supposedly bad, untunable actuator: if a tuner can't support our product without asking the owner to alter it, they have no business "supporting" our turbos.


we shouldnt have to mess with it doug. if your turbo is in fact outside of that 12psi you said it was set to, then youll prolly never see me buy or recommend a product from yours again. the troubles this turbo has caused for me is crazy and im pissed because of it. all fingers are pointing towards the wga and until a cpl days ago, my map sensor self destructed. the map issue is something else cause as soon as i turn off the n75, my car runs fine. my wga is cracking at about 16psi it seems, but we will see when i get iains map sensor next week so we can run good logs. thats when we will see :sly:



derZeck said:


> Then you need to terminate your relationship with DM, because they are seeing a lot of these "unique" actuators.
> 
> Silly question, if there are so many unique actuators, how can a tuner support an off the shelf tune? They would have to adjust every tune to each actuator if they were all different.
> 
> Again, I'm not here to bash you. Just sharing my trials in tribulations.


why terminate? dm is working to fix the issues. this is screwing dm over though cause its taking more time to run a ft than it is a k04 and its not fair to the tuner just because the product company says that they should be good enough and can handle it. thats just coming off as a douche imho



filthyillness said:


> Who, when and where is this info at about bad/untunable actuators?
> 
> Is there a fix or alternative in thw works?
> 
> ...


the tuner will adjust for it, but you can turn the actuator to lower or raise the cracking pressure. or you could go for a forge one. just get a forge k04 actuator if you want to go aftermarket



steveo17 said:


> But shouldn't the f23 be properly calibrated from the factory?
> 
> Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


you would think but both of us have been chasing a never ending bumpy ride. my map sensor isnt reading over 4psi now, so im useless in the logging business right now


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

steveo17 said:


> Got one which was supposed to be a 3 bar but it wasn't.
> 
> Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


3bar doesnt offer any real benefits other than ability to log via vagcom to the sensors limit.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

RaraK69 said:


> 3bar doesnt offer any real benefits other than ability to log via vagcom to the sensors limit.


Driver Motorsport will beg to differ i believe. i'm going by what they say and request for their tune. a $70 part is not going to break the bank on a budget of $3, especially since it is easily replaced; however, a faulty or improperly set WGA is a PITA


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

steveo17 said:


> ok. i do too and i'm using DM for the tune.
> 
> it appears that i'm having an issue with the WGA where it may be cracking too high. is this an issue you were/are having too?
> 
> when did you get/install your f23?


Installed the turbo in Sept '13
And ran it with the MBC as suggested by Doug. It ran like garbage, so I contacted Tayor at do Tuning (not DM) we went through about 5 different tunes to get where I am at today, but I still see bad surging as I have from day 1. Right now my boost flutters bad between 17-22psi. I was running the exact same tune, with the same parts on the same year car as me, our cars reacted quite differently. I also know another guy with the exact same setup but was using DM and experienced the exact same issue as me.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Red5pade said:


> *sorry for all the quotes but i only just found out about this. so ill answer the ones the stuck out to me from recent post*
> 
> why terminate? dm is working to fix the issues. this is screwing dm over though cause its taking more time to run a ft than it is a k04 and its not fair to the tuner just because the product company says that they should be good enough and can handle it. thats just coming off as a douche imho


I was just using Doug's statement against him. DM is seeing the actuator issue, so using Doug's statement they have no business supporting his turbos. 

I am holding back some information about DM's fix that was told to me in confidence, and I will leave it at that.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Then perhaps the issue should be addressed with Frakenturbo getting with Forge as a supplier of actuators for the kit. If that will clear up this mess then it wouldn't be too bad of a jump in price or perhaps an option if people would rather spend the little bit extra and choose the option to add a Forge WGA to the kit when buying.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

derZeck said:


> I was just using Doug's statement against him. DM is seeing the actuator issue, so using Doug's statement they have no business supporting his turbos.
> 
> I am holding back some information about DM's fix that was told to me in confidence, and I will leave it at that.


Are you running the MTC 3-BAR MAP sensor? If so that's probably your issue. I've never had issues with the WGA. Mind you, I did crank it down to about 8 PSI cracking pressure. But every time I change boost duty in Maestro the WGA does exactly what I want it to. 

Could the issue be with the oversized wastegate flap? Just throwing things out there to think about...


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Pure.Dope said:


> Are you running the MTC 3-BAR MAP sensor? If so that's probably your issue. I've never had issues with the WGA. Mind you, I did crank it down to about 8 PSI cracking pressure. But every time I change boost duty in Maestro the WGA does exactly what I want it to.
> 
> Could the issue be with the oversized wastegate flap? Just throwing things out there to think about...


I am running a factory MAP

Recently talked to Doug and Taylor. 
I and doing a couple logs this week, and we will see. 

I'm still going to install the forge WGA when it comes in.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Might as well. As tech guys like to future proof their rigs so why not up the equipment, if available, and save the headaches for something that'll be less of an immediate concern to fix.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

RaraK69 said:


> 3bar doesnt offer any real benefits other than ability to log via vagcom to the sensors limit.


I know you are currently busy so allow me to expand on that....

The ECU can see up to 3bar no prob, but it can only request up to 2.5bar (2550mbar). Now that wouldn't be a problem for the fact that the boost PID actually has adaptation variables... Say what now? Yes, it has adaptation variables. Now by only being able to request 23psi but seeing 28psi, the ECU will try to adapt and lower WGDC. Sure there is a few workarounds, but at the end of the day the 3bar basically has no advantages over a 2.5bar. In fact, it probably has more cons, as you have to do some wacky workarounds for the boost PID to be sane above 23psi. Anybody claiming otherwise is trying to pull the wool over your eyes (or is outright clueless about what they are talking about).

Now I can't comment on the actuator issue, but we can and we have been offering F23T tunes with our own supplied actuators. In fact, we have some actuators in stock for any F23T customer that currently is in need of one. Our actuators resemble the stock K04-064 in terms of response, so it should be easy to tune for and should also work if you already have a K04 tune and wish to run the F23T. Simply swap the actuator on and you are good to go!


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

[email protected] Performance said:


> I know you are currently busy so allow me to expand on that....
> 
> The ECU can see up to 3bar no prob, but it can only request up to 2.5bar (2550mbar). Now that wouldn't be a problem for the fact that the boost PID actually has adaptation variables... Say what now? Yes, it has adaptation variables. Now by only being able to request 23psi but seeing 28psi, the ECU will try to adapt and lower WGDC. Sure there is a few workarounds, but at the end of the day the 3bar basically has no advantages over a 2.5bar. In fact, it probably has more cons, as you have to do some wacky workarounds for the boost PID to be sane above 23psi. Anybody claiming otherwise is trying to pull the wool over your eyes (or is outright clueless about what they are talking about).
> 
> Now I can't comment on the actuator issue, but we can and we have been offering F23T tunes with our own supplied actuators. In fact, we have some actuators in stock for any F23T customer that currently is in need of one. Our actuators resemble the stock K04-064 in terms of response, so it should be easy to tune for and should also work if you already have a K04 tune and wish to run the F23T. Simply swap the actuator on and you are good to go!


I wanted to avoid this thread at all costs. I guess I can't now. 

I'll make it quick.. You're wrong. 

Here is why it is needed: 

a) Proper OVERBOOST protection. Without it you have NONE.
b) Your load calculations have no way of being accurate because MAF will continue to increase with no increase in boost pressure.
c) You're supposed to calibrate these adaptation values, not max a sensor to avoid it. 
d) You're feed forward map (you probably don't know what this is) can't be set proper without it. Look at the Golf R cal. 
e) You're chopping off 1/2 your PID if you have no way of ever seeing boost pressure exceed 2550. To make it simple, you have request 2550, you hit a false actual 2550 your PID never works because it's got a false happy reading so your PID will never actually work to regulate boost pressure downward past this point.
f) VCDS diagnosis. Customer is stating they are overboosting, how could you even see what is going on in that instance if you're capped at 2550 mbar? 
g) Initial cal work. You're going to create a high output tune at higher boost pressure levels using a boost gauge. Have fun. 

Why would vag install it on the Golf R? That cal is NEVER designed to exceed 2550 actual. I'll explain why, safety. It's to have a buffer for overboost and a PID that will regulate boost pressure downward past 2550 actual if the occasion arises.

Stay out of this thread, it's clear you have 1 objective. Don't try to speak technical in an instance where you don't understand the full picture. 

- Bronson


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

I may have gotten a little aggravated. This is out of my character to speak out on the forum but to say the least, I don't respect your knowledge in this arena.

I don't follow competitor threads and spew incorrect technical data. You should follow suit. Professionalism, a lot of adults have it. You should try it.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

MK6813 said:


> I wanted to avoid this thread at all costs. I guess I can't now.
> 
> I'll make it quick.. You're wrong.
> 
> ...


a.) Moot point when you are running 26-28psi
b.) Load is not based on MAP sensor. Its based on the MAF sensor alone. Do you want me to pull out the formula for this from the Bosch documents?
c.) What are you going to calibrate? ps_w maxes out at 2550mbar. No amount of calibration will fix that without a deep code hack.
d.) Oh great, made up map names to go along with your made up features
e.) Do you even know how a PID works? However you slice it, a 3bar MAP sensor will not fix your ps_w cap. Basically the PID is still BROKEN as you are running open loop after 2550mbar
f.) Lots of people have managed without it just fine
g.) I never had problems doing so

Also, you weren't the first to run a 3bar MAP sensor. People have tried this before and have run into the ps_w limitation. You need to stop blowing smoke up people's rectums and get real. I'm not the only one that has told you about this and you know it. You can't tell me I'm wrong when all I do is reverse engineering/dissembling the ECU code, analyzing it, and write my own custom code.

Unlike you, I actually do my own custom code on ME7 and MED9. On ME7 not only do I have a real 4bar MAP sensor support (with no ps_w limitation), but actually added speed density functionality to the ECU when running MAFless.

Now you offer 'cold start deletes'..... You do know manufacturers make cars idle higher when cold for component longevity and so the motor reaches operating temperature faster, right? It has nothing to do with catalyst heating. There is a simple and easy way to disable catalyst heating and it has nothing to do with idle speed. All you are doing is shortening the life of your customers' cars.


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

[email protected] Performance said:


> a.) Moot point when you are running 26-28psi
> *- overboost is a moot point with a tightened actuator on a stock MK5 bottom end? lol... okay.*
> b.) Load is not based on MAP sensor. Its based on the MAF sensor alone. Do you want me to pull out the formula for this from the Bosch documents?
> *- Duh. I know this, everybody knows this. Did I claim it was based off of the map sensor? This went over your ahead.*
> ...


You just went off on a tangent. The basis of the map sensor is for overboost control and to use the other half of your PID. What you replied to it didn't follow anything I said.

VAG was fully aware when installing this sensor on multiple cars that req caps at 2550 mbar. It was intended to calibrate The PID properly in instances where request is close to 2550 mbar to allow the PID to correct overshoot. 

/argument.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

MK6813 said:


> You just went off on a tangent. The basis of the map sensor is for overboost control and to use the other half of your PID. What you replied to it didn't follow anything I said.


So you will not over boost with your tune?


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

You sir, are as stupid as they come.

I'm not even going to waste my time on you. I just proved you wrong and you still trying to blow smoke. Either you are really dumb, or you like deceiving your customers.

I hope your "overboost protection" really works, because there is a windowed block that is indicating otherwise.

Like APR says, "Smoke and Mirrors" everywhere.


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

derZeck said:


> So you will not over boost with your tune?


There is a timer & a delta created for overboost protection. If it is exceeded, the car will throw an overboost code. This isn't possible otherwise. This means, if I want the cal to run 2700 mbar, but it runs 2800 mbar for X amount of seconds it will shut down. This isn't possible if both act & req are both reading 2550 at this point.


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

[email protected] Performance said:


> You sir, are as stupid as the come.
> 
> I'm not even going to waste my time on someone this dumb.
> 
> Like APR says, "Smoke and Mirrors" everywhere.


You initiated all of this. I could care less what GONZOOO tuning is doing lol. 

'Smoke and Mirrors' is lying about purchasing your code changes. I can find a post where you admit it yourself on this very forum. You just outright lied to look 'cool'.

Something worth mentioning, I don't even know you. I have never had a run in with you or your customers. Why continually degrade this aftermarket with nonsense? I would prefer not to fight with people for no reason.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

MK6813 said:


> There is a timer & a delta created for overboost protection. If it is exceeded, the car will throw an overboost code. This isn't possible otherwise. This means, if I want the cal to run 2700 mbar, but it runs 2800 mbar for X amount of seconds it will shut down. This isn't possible if both act & req are both reading 2550 at this point.


Well, I know of at least one car that had your tune that proves your statement false. But until the owner wants to come out and publicly tell his story, I'll leave it at that. 

I may not know the technical end of it, but as you stated, the results speak for themselves


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

derZeck said:


> Well, I know of at least one car that had your tune that proves your statement false. But until the owner wants to come out and publicly tell his story, I'll leave it at that.
> 
> I may not know the technical end of it, but as you stated, the results speak for themselves


I could have multiple customer testimonials that show underboost/overboost code while going through diagnosis. If there are overboost issues, the initial calibration did not have them. This is the same calibration that is being distributed. There have been issues with map sensors and you can see the graph that Steveo posted. I can't control this, I distribute the software based off of what the testing showed back when I initially conducted it.

You have to keep in mind, this timer is set at 1.2 seconds stock. If a car is running >30 PSI at a quick initial spike in 4th or 5th gear, the overboost will not respond fast enough. As you can see from ALL testing that I was involved in, there has been no issues with boost control.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

MK6813 said:


> I could have multiple customer testimonials that show underboost/overboost code while going through diagnosis. If there are overboost issues, the initial calibration did not have them. This is the same calibration that is being distributed. There have been issues with map sensors and you can see the graph that Steveo posted. I can't control this, I distribute the software based off of what the testing showed back when I initially conducted it.
> 
> You have to keep in mind, this timer is set at 1.2 seconds stock. If a car is running >30 PSI at a quick initial spike in 4th or 5th gear, the overboost will not respond fast enough. As you can see from ALL testing that I was involved in, there has been no issues with boost control.


How does your tune account for what Doug calls a "unique" actuator?


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

MK6813 said:


> You have to keep in mind, this timer is set at 1.2 seconds stock. If a car is running >30 PSI at a quick initial spike in 4th or 5th gear, the overboost will not respond fast enough. As you can see from ALL testing that I was involved in, there has been no issues with boost control.


Basically a moot point as I stated before. Thanks for confirming what I said :beer:


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

derZeck said:


> How does your tune account for what Doug calls a "unique" actuator?


The initial calibration was done by recalibrating the PID. It is closed loop for more than half of a 4th gear pull and especially at initial spike. The initial test car had the N75 unplugged, the actuator pressure logged. From here, the boost control was written around it. The proportional, integral and derivative terms were all tightened up and as you can see in all of the posted data from when this was taken place it was accurate, safe and concise. 

This car was ran for literally thousands of miles in Oregon during the winter. It's been on the dyno multiple times and went through dozens of file revisions. The final result was very good.

If there is an issue with a map sensor being completely off, this skews this GREATLY. On Steveo's car, for whatever reason the cracking pressure was off >2 PSI, this means the point at which the N75 valve takes over starts too SOON and can create a spike. 

I'm merely trying my best to provide software. All of the results of the calibration were published. I've done my best to stay humble and out of the limelight and create software solutions for 2.0T FSI and 2.0T TSI customers. I do not care to get involved in this drama, I actually didn't have anything against Gonzo until I decided to be a target of some random attack. I simply make the software.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

So you do this process with every car before you send them a tune to account for the "unique" actuator?


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

[email protected] Performance said:


> Basically a moot point as I stated before. Thanks for confirming what I said :beer:


Look below your post. I state this:

*"The initial calibration was done by recalibrating the PID. It is closed loop for more than half of a 4th gear pull and especially at initial spike."*

To keep a closed loop boost control that will spike at ~2550 mbar, I'd like to have an active PID. As mentioned earlier, when the tune is CLOSED LOOP and at boost spike.. being able to read past 2550 mbar matters. Remember, if I wanted to keep the spike at 2550 mbar with the stock sensor, the PID wouldn't be active to bring it back down through that 3,000 -> 4,000 RPM region. It's probably against my best interest to explain this but whatever.

There is a dip in the designed boost curve from 3,000 -> 4,000 RPM, this would not be possible without the sensor unless I wanted to lower boost pressure throughout this region. I explained why earlier.


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

derZeck said:


> So you do this process with every car before you send them a tune to account for the "unique" actuator?


No, I do not.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

MK6813 said:


> No, I do not.


So how do you account for this? I am pretty sure I have one of these "unique" actuators and seeing some odd issues.


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

derZeck said:


> So how do you account for this? I am pretty sure I have one of these "unique" actuators and seeing some odd issues.


Right now, I'm working my best to not leave customers hanging. I've sent multiple files to multiple people and it is a heavy work load. 

Despite how you're trying to spin it, I'm not the bad guy.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Why has this thread turned in to a pissing contest for tuners and companies to babble about who's dick is smaller.

If you have undisclosed "beef" with somebody, take it out back and settle it like real gentlemen.

With that said, if you have no real useful input relating to the OP then take that **** somewhere else cause 90% of the people who frequent this thread dont wanna hear it right here.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

filthyillness said:


> Why has this thread turned in to a pissing contest for tuners and companies to babble about who's dick is smaller.
> 
> If you have undisclosed "beef" with somebody, take it out back and settle it like real gentlemen.
> 
> ...


I get it. 

It is bad business... Period. 

But I can't sit back and allow my business and hard work be trashed. The software works as intended. It is static, not changing. It will do the same thing on every ECU that it is flashed on. Software is not milk... It doesn't go sour. 

Somehow this past page is being turned around on me by guess who? A competing tuner looking to take shots. Whatever is being insinuated here, it is not a DM fault.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

MK6813 said:


> Right now, I'm working my best to not leave customers hanging. I've sent multiple files to multiple people and it is a heavy work load.
> 
> Despite how you're trying to spin it, I'm not the bad guy.


I am not saying you are a bad guy. I am just pointed out to doug that you are seeing the same "unique" actuator issue that the rest of the tuners are having. Using Doug's own statement, you have no business supporting his product. Now if every tuner is seeing this issue, then who is supposed to support his product?


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

MK6813 said:


> I get it.
> 
> It is bad business... Period.
> 
> ...


I was just trying to get you to indirectly tell me you were having an actuator issue (I already knew this, but I wanted to see it public)

Your tune may be fine for the standard actuator, but like all the other tuners you can not account for the "unique" ones either as a Doug says you can.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

derZeck said:


> I was just trying to get you to indirectly tell me you were having an actuator issue (I already knew this, but I wanted to see it public)
> 
> Your tune may be fine for the standard actuator, but like all the other tuners you can not account for the "unique" ones either as a Doug says you can.


i was actually trying to see similar to what you were. and that is if anyone else is having an actuator issue, which it appears to be more than just two people now. I'm trying to find time to meet with Doug and debug this in person, but i've just been too busy recently


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

steveo17 said:


> i was actually trying to see similar to what you were. and that is if anyone else is having an actuator issue, which it appears to be more than just two people now. I'm trying to find time to meet with Doug and debug this in person, but i've just been too busy recently


I am just putting a Forge on, and being done. I suggest anyone else thinking about any FT to do do the same to save a lot of headaches with tuning and drivability. A small $200 investment in a consistent actuator will save you a ton of time and headache.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

derZeck said:


> I am just putting a Forge on, and being done. I suggest anyone else thinking about any FT to do do the same to save a lot of headaches with tuning and drivability. A small $200 investment in a consistent actuator will save you a ton of time and headache.


So has it been determined whether the 'unique' actuators function ok but are calibrated in a 'unique' or inconsistent manner from turbo to turbo, or have they been resistant to traditional methods of dialing-in of the WGA setting (adjusting cracking pressure via the WGA rod)? Or are the WGA's straight up defective? 

I also wanted to say that Bronson does, indeed, offer ongoing support even if a turbo isn't calibrated like the ones he based his baseline maps around. One of the advantages of working with a tuner like DM is he will do his best to take a customer's logs and incorporate that data into making individualized maps that should correct drivability issues caused by each car's hardware idiosyncrasies. 

That's why bigger companies with static "off the rack" tunes couldn't work with a product with so much variation from turbo to turbo. A one-size-fits-all tune isn't safe unless the turbos they support are made exactly the same from one turbo to the next. 

Hopefully the name-calling stops. I think the information-sharing can be done without the sarcasm and ****-talking from all of the vendors. None of us cares who started the argument. The tuners who work to squash the derisiveness and can deliver results/ share info in a professional manner will get the customers and the respect.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Bunnspeed said:


> So has it been determined whether the 'unique' actuators function ok but are calibrated in a 'unique' or inconsistent manner from turbo to turbo, or have they been resistant to traditional methods of dialing-in of the WGA setting (adjusting cracking pressure via the WGA rod)? Or are the WGA's straight up defective?
> 
> I also wanted to say that Bronson does, indeed, offer ongoing support even if a turbo isn't calibrated like the ones he based his baseline maps around. One of the advantages of working with a tuner like DM is he will do his best to take a customer's logs and incorporate that data into making individualized maps that should correct drivability issues caused by each car's hardware idiosyncrasies.
> 
> ...


I know of at least one case where DM just sent a new tune, with out logs being done, and there was a catastrophic outcome. And DM basically said "oh well"


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I have excellent control over my actuator and plenty of luck with eurodyne. Just my 2 cents. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

So meastro it is. Still saving money and there are many people who can pan out to help thr consumer base to tune the f23

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

derZeck said:


> I know of at least one case where DM just sent a new tune, with out logs being done, and there was a catastrophic outcome. And DM basically said "oh well"


Here we go again, it is clear you have an axe to grind. I'll clear it up for you.

Here are the facts;

a) This is the same file that everybody else was running, everybody else was experiencing the same underboost issues.
b) Data was never sent.
c) The request was for an underboost issue.
d) Customer didn't reach out to me and explained the issue afterward.
e) The original file was perfect. I was happy to put my name on it and endorse it. These issues are not due to software miraculously becoming bad.
f) The software change was only to increase the underboost timer.

I am *completely* exhausted from being thrown under the bus. This is incredibly insulting what you are insinuating. Things are changing on our end, these issues are not something I plan to encounter again. Once again, we're not the bad guys.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

I am just trying to point out that DM is no better at addressing the unique actuator than any other tuner. 
I am just attacking the high horse you have been put on.


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

xtravbx said:


> I have excellent control over my actuator and plenty of luck with eurodyne. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


This is not an issue with having control over the WGA. If variances exists that swing 2-4 PSI, if you're using the same software it will not work. 

As stated, with DM changes are being made going forward to ensure this is not a recurring issue. We're taking flack for something that is not a software issue.


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

derZeck said:


> I am just trying to point out that DM is no better at addressing the unique actuator than any other tuner.
> I am just attacking the high horse you have been put on.


Look.

You're taking issues out you have with other people/companies on Driver Motorsport. Here's the kicker, we're collateral damage in this and it's not effectively doing anything to further your real point.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

I know it's a hardware issue, Doug denies this issue. Other tuners are being said to be inferior to DM. Doug puts DM on a this high horse saying you don't see these hardware issues and your software works flawlessly with the FT product as a whole. 

I am simply pointing out that the tuners are doing what they can, but it keeps coming back to the hardware. 

It is extremely difficult for ANY tuner to work with inconsistent hardware.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

derZeck said:


> I know it's a hardware issue, Doug denies this issue. Other tuners are being said to be inferior to DM. Doug puts DM on a this high horse saying you don't see these hardware issues and your software works flawlessly with the FT product as a whole.
> 
> I am simply pointing out that the tuners are doing what they can, but it keeps coming back to the hardware.
> 
> *It is extremely difficult for ANY tuner to work with inconsistent hardware.*


This is the most important point to take from the last handful of posts. 

A tuner can only hope to approximate a correct initial tune for hardware that varies so drastically from one car to the next. After that, the tuner's ability/ willingness to fix the issue via workarounds based on in-house dyno pulls or via thorough logging comes into play.

I'm sure DM, gonzo, dotuning, etc. all have the ability to get the job done. Hopefully constructive information sharing between the boutique tuners and their customers can advance the process more quickly without the need for further derisiveness.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I think it might be helpful if I contributed a bit of additional perspective into our thread here.



[email protected] Performance said:


> I hope your "overboost protection" really works, because there is a windowed block that is indicating otherwise.



I know of one instance where a DM-tuned F23T car has had an engine failure. Presumably, that's the one our friendly competitor is bringing up in this thread. Since the day it happened, I have been working closely with the car owner and repair techs to determine a cause. The turbocharger will come here to be inspected for any defect or mis-calibration. When the car is returned to service, DriverMotorsport will work with us to review the software mapping. In other words, both FrankenTurbo and DriverMotorsport will be proactive and responsible about determining any fault in the products/services we provide.

Regarding the "unique" actuator used on the F23T, here is an important clarification: our actuator design is unique to our company. But this actuator is used not only on our F23T, it is used on every one of our VW/Audi products. And has been for years. I've covered this before -- pretty much every time Gonzo Tuning shows up in one of our threads -- but I'm happy to cover it again. 

Our products are meant to deliver raised performance throughout the rev band. That means no sacrifice to low-end responsiveness simply to achieve a marketing-friendly horsepower number. Does the F23T deliver that? Yes. This and other threads have documented its complete superiority over the K04. But I won't claim our turbos are easy to tune. I know they're not. And the reputable software companies with whom we partner know this. So it's no small task to "support" our products. It takes skill and smarts. And just as important, it takes communication. The tuning companies such as DriverMotorsport who have reached out to us for technical assistance have produced solid solutions for our products. Those companies who make no effort to collaborate with us -- even if it's just to make a simple phone call -- have no business making pronouncements on our hardware.

Customer complaints of "surge" or "fluttering boost" with the F23T are real. We acknowledge this can happen with our product and have made good strides with troubleshooting it. But these issues are not specific to our turbos and have been documented to happen with K04s on various software. For insight into that, I encourage you to read this thread. I think it's worth noting that APR was contributing in that thread and clearly being responsive about the issue. In other words, they were acknowledging a problem and offering to help. You can expect just as robust support from FrankenTurbo. Whatever the cause for people's issues with our products, we will work with the customers and our software partners to find solutions. This market, and this community, deserve nothing less.

If any one of you have questions you would like me to address directly, you are welcome to contact me.

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo
[email protected]


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Bunnspeed said:


> This is the most important point to take from the last handful of posts.
> 
> A tuner can only hope to approximate a correct initial tune for hardware that varies so drastically from one car to the next. After that, the tuner's ability/ willingness to fix the issue via workarounds based on in-house dyno pulls or via thorough logging comes into play.
> 
> I'm sure DM, gonzo, dotuning, etc. all have the ability to get the job done. Hopefully constructive information sharing between the boutique tuners and their customers can advance the process more quickly without the need for further derisiveness.


And that was my point all along. 

I asked specific questions and made specific statement to get out in the open that all parties but Doug are seeing hardware issues. But now that Doug admitted to the "unique" hardware, I hope a consistent product can be produced.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

By the way that was a ploy to get this moving on. Perhaps some theories, experiences, thoughts to see how to improve, change, or get the best out of a good product?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

steveo17 said:


> ok. i do too and i'm using DM for the tune.
> 
> it appears that i'm having an issue with the WGA where it may be cracking too high. is this an issue you were/are having too?
> 
> ...


*^^One of a few that had issues with DM's "superior tuning"; though Doug claims the rest of us tuners are incapable, and offer "incomplete mapping", when obviously DM has the same issues with FT actuators as the rest of us. *


[email protected] said:


> *Proper tuning is also an easy fix for what is actually not a bad actuator, but simply a unique one. Tuners who are dependent upon K04 actuator hardware are simply gutting the F23T's power as a workaround for incomplete mapping.
> 
> I've said this before in other threads that chronically arise over our supposedly bad, untunable actuator: if a tuner can't support our product without asking the owner to alter it, they have no business "supporting" our turbos.*


*
^^This is the type of inherently dishonest slander that Doug directs at our company for issues that every other tuner experiences attempting to write a boxed tune for his inconsistent hardware.




RaraK69 said:



Your actuators are not "untunable" by any means, however they are not consistent batch to batch, thus causing tuners to drop support for your product, or to be overwhelmed by "unique" issues that the customers will report and typically, go to the software vendor first. 

You 100% do have an issue with your hardware, without any doubt, as witnessed and proven by professional tuners, and your customers. So why do you continually point fingers at the tuners and making negative comments towards their abilities? Ive stood quiet for a while, but im sick of reading your comments, pointing at tuners. 

Get your head out of your ass Doug.

Click to expand...

^^Sums up our collective point nicely.



MK6813 said:



Look.

You're taking issues out you have with other people/companies on Driver Motorsport. Here's the kicker, we're collateral damage in this and it's not effectively doing anything to further your real point.

Click to expand...

 False, Driver Motorsport is being put on a pedestal as being a 'superior tuner', based on the false premise that you do not have the same issues with your 'boxed tunes' on inconsistent Frankenturbo wastegate actuators that the rest of us have, even though you admitted to having these same issues as the rest of us in the quote below, in this very thread



MK6813 said:



This is not an issue with having control over the WGA. If variances exists that swing 2-4 PSI, if you're using the same software it will not work. 

As stated, with DM changes are being made going forward to ensure this is not a recurring issue. We're taking flack for something that is not a software issue.

Click to expand...

Stop playing the victim; as you've been given a pass by FT, and have sold and profited from numerous tunes for this inconsistent product, whilst the rest of us PAYING ADVERTISERS have lost potential market share through what amounts to slander; libelous, and PROVEN untrue slander, that your own statements in this thread testify to. 


Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860

This is the same exact actuator issue that we were slandered by FT for being "incapable of tuning properly" on the 1.8T platform; because Doug would rather smear a company, than address his hardware concerns. He then introduces the 2.0T line of turbos with the same exact issue, and once again smears the tuners, and plays favorites with the tuners who keep quiet. We're supposed to sit here, and shut our mouths, whilst we're spending advertising dollars on this very site, and having potential customers sent elsewhere, due to us being falsely portrayed as incompetent? :screwy:*


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

I see there's a new season of my favorite soap opera


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

So if you are concerned with the wg setting when you get the turbo and don't trust Doug, check it yourself before you put it on. Adjust it if needed.


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

I had no way of knowing this was going to take place when both of the development cars had absolutely amazing results. This personally, has put a lot of stress on me. I've done everything possible and worked overtime to fix it. 

How do you fix an issue? You address it and solve it. I will not/cannot stand Driver Motorsport tuned vehicles not having positive results. I'm willing to consider any course of action to remedy it.

We've created software that creates amazing results. The development car was perfection. The car at FFE, the owner was incredibly pleased and reached out in emails to express it. This same software was ported to customers afterward, the results were not the same. I don't care what the issue is, it will be found and sorted otherwise software will not be sold going forward.


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

MK6813 said:


> Seriously.
> 
> You need to get real. You do not even have a competing product to this *yet*. How can that being taking market share?
> 
> ...


We've had a tune for this for quite some time, and haven't pushed it heavily because of the actuator issue. We've a shipment of wastegate actuators for the FT tunes en route. :thumbup:

Our software works as intended too, as does Do Tunings software, and every other tuners.


MK6813 said:


> This is not an issue with having control over the WGA. If variances exists that swing 2-4 PSI, if you're using the same software it will not work.
> 
> As stated, with DM changes are being made going forward to ensure this is not a recurring issue. We're taking flack for something that is not a software issue.


What changes are you implementing besides offering a new wastegate actuator with your tunes? Are you going to ship a manual boost controller with your tunes? :laugh:

*Inappropriate comment edited*



*Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860*


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## J[email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

MK6813 said:


> Here we go.
> 
> I had no way of knowing this was going to take place when both of the development cars had absolutely amazing results. This personally, has put a lot of stress on me. I've done everything possible and worked overtime to fix it.
> 
> ...


Bolded the only relevant part of this post for clarification. EVERY test mule we've tuned an FT on has been flawless as well. It's the CONSISTENCY, and REPEATABILITY that are the topic of discussion here due to FTs faulty actuators..

*End Of Story*


*Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860*


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> I think it might be helpful if I contributed a bit of additional perspective into our thread here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*We applaud you for doing what any responsible business owner would do. I don't recall anyone questioning this; hence your 'clarification' is clearly nothing more than a verbose diversion from the topic with which we've been discussing. Nice try though.*



[email protected] said:


> Regarding the "unique" actuator used on the F23T, here is an important clarification: our actuator design is unique to our company. But this actuator is used not only on our F23T, it is used on every one of our VW/Audi products. And has been for years. I've covered this before -- pretty much every time Gonzo Tuning shows up in one of our threads -- but I'm happy to cover it again.


*Your actuators are nothing more than 'OEM style' replacement actuators; with their functioning operating range shortened, via 'cranking' of the wastegate arm. No special specification whatsoever, with the sole exception being your crude hack that is done with an open end wrench, and zero verification of the final 'crack pressure'. You simply count threads on the wastegate arm. This procedure that you employ IS the underlying problem with all of your very well documented wastegate issues dating back the last several years.*



[email protected] said:


> Our products are meant to deliver raised performance throughout the rev band. That means no sacrifice to low-end responsiveness simply to achieve a marketing-friendly horsepower number. Does the F23T deliver that? Yes. This and other threads have documented its complete superiority over the K04. But I won't claim our turbos are easy to tune. I know they're not. And the reputable software companies with whom we partner know this. So it's no small task to "support" our products. It takes skill and smarts. And just as important, it takes communication. The tuning companies such as DriverMotorsport who have reached out to us for technical assistance have produced solid solutions for our products. Those companies who make no effort to collaborate with us -- even if it's just to make a simple phone call -- have no business making pronouncements on our hardware.


*The only 'tuning issue' with regards to your turbos is directly related to the aforementioned, and well documented 'wastegate cranking' you employ. A proper OEM, or aftermarket wastegate makes them no different to tune than any other aftermarket turbo. Again, more verbose diversion, with nothing to back it up. All documented facts prove the inverse of your statements to be true, as usual*



[email protected] said:


> Customer complaints of "surge" or "fluttering boost" with the F23T are real. We acknowledge this can happen with our product and have made good strides with troubleshooting it. But these issues are not specific to our turbos and have been documented to happen with K04s on various software. For insight into that, I encourage you to read this thread. I think it's worth noting that APR was contributing in that thread and clearly being responsive about the issue. In other words, they were acknowledging a problem and offering to help. You can expect just as robust support from FrankenTurbo. Whatever the cause for people's issues with our products, we will work with the customers and our software partners to find solutions. This market, and this community, deserve nothing less.


*Moot point; as that's not what's being discussed here. Stop trying to confuse the uninformed, by implementing diversion; It's quite tacky. APR doesn't 'crank wastegate', and neither does any other supplier. Only Frankenturbo employs this hack; hence the dialouge here.*


*Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860*


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Jeff. I saved that number and will be making a phone call in the near future.

Im very displeased with the professionalism that this thread full of different companies trying to ram each other in the ass.

Truth is, as for many people in the same boat, i personally havent made in order due to this threads content as aforementioned.

I for one, as ive been in the military for 8 years, up hold respect for professionalism and therefore is my reason. As a consumer, this could and should be heeded.

Just a little bit of insight in case you all have become complacent.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

MK6813 said:


> I had no way of knowing this was going to take place when both of the development cars had absolutely amazing results. This personally, has put a lot of stress on me. I've done everything possible and worked overtime to fix it.
> 
> How do you fix an issue? You address it and solve it. I will not/cannot stand Driver Motorsport tuned vehicles not having positive results. I'm willing to consider any course of action to remedy it.
> 
> We've created software that creates amazing results. The development car was perfection. The car at FFE, the owner was incredibly pleased and reached out in emails to express it. This same software was ported to customers afterward, the results were not the same. I don't care what the issue is, it will be found and sorted otherwise software will not be sold going forward.


Simple solution; address the inconsistent actuator issue.:thumbup:

Any software solution that's directed at circumnavigating inconsistent hardware is always going to be a compromise, and there's no getting around simple, cogent logic here.

*GTS has maintained friendly, stress free relations with most competitors; including, but not exclusive to Do-Tuning, APR, Malone, GIAC, etc. That said; Driver Motorsport hasn't been put on a 'hit list' by GTS, or anyone else. I'm simply not going to sit on my hands, and allow my company to be slandered in these forums for a hardware issue, that has been proven to be an issue for every other tuner to touch FT products including yourself. It's reprehensible, and offensive to not only GTS, but the community as whole the amount of gratuitous deflection being perpetrated by Doug Harper, and the Frankenturbo brand, in order to save $5 per kit.*




*Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860*


----------



## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

too much going on here for me to read it all. tl;dr, but these stuck out cause i was wondering the same



derZeck said:


> So you do this process with every car before you send them a tune to account for the "unique" actuator?


i think this is a great idea, bronson



MK6813 said:


> No, I do not.


prolly should send the first file as the n75 off, have them run the logs to measure the wga cracking, and then adjust for it. 



MK6813 said:


> Right now, I'm working my best to not leave customers hanging. I've sent multiple files to multiple people and it is a heavy work load.
> 
> Despite how you're trying to spin it, I'm not the bad guy.


i know man, and we with dm tunes appreciate it. 

my car is in the shop right now, so i wont be able to get you a log for my wga when i get iains map, but as soon as they fix my clutch, ill get you those logs

also, gonzo, it was pretty douche of you to try and start a forum war. if you had a problem, you should have emailed dm instead of making it public. its clear that the light was taken off you guys when dm came in, but thats no reason to go bashing. thats something apr always does and most of us think more highly of gonzo for you guys to be acting like that. keep it classy cause it draws away from the real issue and thats helping out the community :beer:


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

[email protected] Performance said:


> *I'm simply not going to sit on my hands, and allow my company to be slandered in these forums for a hardware issue, that has been proven to be an issue for every other tuner to touch FT products including yourself. It's reprehensible, and offensive to not only GTS, but the community as whole the amount of gratuitous deflection being perpetrated by Doug Harper, and the Frankenturbo brand, in order to save $5 per kit.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


can you expound on that please


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

[email protected] Performance said:


> Really? Why don't you go back two pages, read it all, then make an assessment before jumping to conclusions.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

At this point it doesn't even matter who started the flame war. It reflects poorly on everyone involved to have your posts dripping with sarcasm and condescension. No matter how good a product you have or how butthurt you feel or who is to blame for your tuning difficulties, the end result of all this nastiness is people aren't going to want to touch your product with a 10 ft pole. In an effort to defend yourself you end up looking like the bad guy, no matter how valid your points may be...it's all in the way you make those points. It's very bad business to slam everyone else. 

I especially love reading a horribly nasty post and then seeing the company's contact info right under the nasty post. Yeah, I'll be sure to call that number right away.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

Bunnspeed said:


> At this point it doesn't even matter who started the flame war. It reflects poorly on everyone involved to have your posts dripping with sarcasm and condescension. No matter how good a product you have or how butthurt you feel or who is to blame for your tuning difficulties, the end result of all this nastiness is people aren't going to want to touch your product with a 10 ft pole. In an effort to defend yourself you end up looking like the bad guy, no matter how valid your points may be...it's all in the way you make those points. It's very bad business to slam everyone else.
> 
> I especially love reading a horribly nasty post and then seeing the company's contact info right under the nasty post. Yeah, I'll be sure to call that number right away.


would you knock it off. these pissing contests have become a regular source of entertainment for me


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## nashbar (Oct 21, 2009)

alexj87 said:


> would you knock it off. these pissing contests have become a regular source of entertainment for me


this, me and maestro k04 enjoyed the reading.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

alexj87 said:


> would you knock it off. these pissing contests have become a regular source of entertainment for me


Lol, it *is* kind of fun to watch people get all worked up. :laugh:


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Anybody local between Fort Bragg and Raleigh?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

just recieve my FT today Now its time to find a car to drop it in

450$ shipping suck tought


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

It cost $450 for shipping from FT??

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## bokiNY (Nov 26, 2008)

Where was it shipped to, moon?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

filthyillness said:


> It cost $450 for shipping from FT??
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk




That can't be correct....


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

You can put it in my car.


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## kal-el21 (Feb 2, 2012)

nashbar said:


> this, me and maestro k04 enjoyed the reading.


Make that 3.

Followed this thread from the start. Glad I went with a K04.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

kal-el21 said:


> Make that 3.
> 
> Followed this thread from the start. Glad I went with a K04.


I have an F23 and am super happy with it, i just accepted that it was going to include maestro and time on a dyno from the get go.

Software is CRUCIAL - doing a turbo swap and not getting a truly custom tune is retarded - everyone's motor, climate, supporting mods are a little different. If you try to get a cookie cutter tune ur gonna end up with something way too conservative or unsafe. It completely astounds me that people are willing to pony up on everything from intercoolers to injectors then throw their hands up when it comes to the one piece that is going to make everything work


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

alexj87 said:


> I have an F23 and am super happy with it, i just accepted that it was going to include maestro and time on a dyno from the get go.
> 
> Software is CRUCIAL - doing a turbo swap and not getting a truly custom tune is retarded - everyone's motor, climate, supporting mods are a little different. If you try to get a cookie cutter tune ur gonna end up with something way too conservative or unsafe. It completely astounds me that people are willing to pony up on everything from intercoolers to injectors then throw their hands up when it comes to the one piece that is going to make everything work


Software is always the most important part of any build.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## kal-el21 (Feb 2, 2012)

alexj87 said:


> I have an F23 and am super happy with it, i just accepted that it was going to include maestro and time on a dyno from the get go.
> 
> Software is CRUCIAL - doing a turbo swap and not getting a truly custom tune is retarded - everyone's motor, climate, supporting mods are a little different. If you try to get a cookie cutter tune ur gonna end up with something way too conservative or unsafe. It completely astounds me that people are willing to pony up on everything from intercoolers to injectors then throw their hands up when it comes to the one piece that is going to make everything work


Very true. I'm sure many are happy with the F23T. As always, the ones having problems will be more vocal than those without issues. I hope those having issues will get things sorted soon. Was this your first time picking up Maestro? If so, how was the learning curve?


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

kal-el21 said:


> Very true. I'm sure many are happy with the F23T. As always, the ones having problems will be more vocal than those without issues. I hope those having issues will get things sorted soon. Was this your first time picking up Maestro? If so, how was the learning curve?


Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty happy with what I have right now. Taylor at do has walked me through every step, not once did he even hint about a hardware issue. He is not one to place blame on another companies product. It was not till I questioned if I had a hardware issue did we start to explore that avenue. My car behaved completely different than any other car he has tuned. Right now I have on the way to me a new N75 valve (free of charge from Doug) and a new K04 Forge wastegate actuator (I obtained on my own). 

I wish I could figure out how to post a video on here to show how bad the boost flutters from 17-23ish psi. 

Again, luckily Taylor kept me in the safe zone with my tunes to pin point my issue. Just lots of logging is the trick to getting your tuner to get the best tune for your car.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

derZeck said:


> Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty happy with what I have right now. Taylor at do has walked me through every step, not once did he even hint about a hardware issue. He is not one to place blame on another companies product. It was not till I questioned if I had a hardware issue did we start to explore that avenue. My car behaved completely different than any other car he has tuned. Right now I have on the way to me a new N75 valve (free of charge from Doug) and a new K04 Forge wastegate actuator (I obtained on my own).
> 
> I wish I could figure out how to post a video on here to show how bad the boost flutters from 17-23ish psi.
> 
> Again, luckily Taylor kept me in the safe zone with my tunes to pin point my issue. Just lots of logging is the trick to getting your tuner to get the best tune for your car.


does yours flutter like this car:


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

derZeck said:


> Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty happy with what I have right now. Taylor at do has walked me through every step, not once did he even hint about a hardware issue. He is not one to place blame on another companies product. It was not till I questioned if I had a hardware issue did we start to explore that avenue. My car behaved completely different than any other car he has tuned. Right now I have on the way to me a new N75 valve (free of charge from Doug) and a new K04 Forge wastegate actuator (I obtained on my own).
> 
> I wish I could figure out how to post a video on here to show how bad the boost flutters from 17-23ish psi.
> 
> Again, luckily Taylor kept me in the safe zone with my tunes to pin point my issue. Just lots of logging is the trick to getting your tuner to get the best tune for your car.


Custom tunes aren't in question here.. As Taylor would tell you; it's writing canned tunes that are the issue. A tune can be written for any wastegate crack pressure in a CUSTOM tune.

The tune shouldn't have to be custom for what is supposed to be a consistent hardware combination. 





*Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860*


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

steveo17 said:


> does yours flutter like this car:



Something isn't right. Pull over and call a tow truck and play it safe.:facepalm:


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

steveo17 said:


> does yours flutter like this car:


Exactly!!!


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

derZeck said:


> Exactly!!!


contact Doug about this. It of course is not normal and he will do what he can to help you resolve it


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

[email protected] Performance said:


> Custom tunes aren't in question here.. As Taylor would tell you; it's writing canned tunes that are the issue. A tune can be written for any wastegate crack pressure in a CUSTOM tune.
> 
> The tune shouldn't have to be custom for what is supposed to be a consistent hardware combination.
> 
> ...


Captain Poopy Pants is back in da haus


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

derZeck said:


> Right now I have on the way to me a new N75 valve (free of charge from Doug) and a new K04 Forge wastegate actuator (I obtained on my own).





steveo17 said:


> contact Doug about this. It of course is not normal and he will do what he can to help you resolve it


Already done ^^^


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

derZeck said:


> Already done ^^^


oh right. 

hopefully that resolves the issue.



and any particular reason why you're going with the forge WGA rather than the supplied one?


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

steveo17 said:


> oh right.
> 
> hopefully that resolves the issue.


I'm trying the route Doug is suggesting first. If it resolves it or not, the Forge WGA is going on after


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Is the hot side of the F23T ported, at similar boost levels will the F23T see higher backpressure than a K04?


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> It cost $450 for shipping from FT??
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk



yeah!!! actually it was 100$USPS and 364$ for the custom tax!!!!! i live in Québec .....


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

Tutti57 said:


> You can put it in my car.


too bad im not JESUS, cause if so id be making the FT multiplication to feed all your motors


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I figured you were oconus.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

steveo17 said:


> oh right.
> 
> hopefully that resolves the issue.
> 
> ...


Sorry, missed this post. 

Decided to get a new one because of logs and how my car is behaving. 

Trying one thing at a time to solve the last few issues.


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

Dont tell my girlfriend but ive just calculate from now what ive spend on parts to make a reliable setup
HPHP autotech
F23T
EURODYNE MAESTRO
IE RODS
BSH MOTOR MOUNTS
SOUTH BEND OFE CLUTCH DISC
ARP ULTIMATE FSI KIT
HEAD GASKET KIT AND TIMMING BELT KIT Guess.........................5442 CND:facepalm:

i wish i live in the states!!! :banghead:


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

10silverbullet said:


> Dont tell my girlfriend but ive just calculate from now what ive spend on parts to make a reliable setup
> HPHP autotech
> F23T
> EURODYNE MAESTRO
> ...


why the rods? wheres the injectors to take advantage of the rods, or get rid of the rods and just get a rs4 prv


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

Red5pade said:


> why the rods? wheres the injectors to take advantage of the rods, or get rid of the rods and just get a rs4 prv


Ive tune myself my beater( vr6 supercharge nitrous) with an SDS stand alone and ive also work with Megasquirt so me and my friend from plan on making big number on a Mustang dyno so if we push the thing hard will need some kind of insurance! 400$ for rods is fairly cheap if i already plan on disasembling the engine to clean the valve and to delete shaft balancer so im gonna be there anyway!!! upgrading the RS4 valve is not a problem if i have to do it latter the rods will always be there!!!

And.........i think i have some spare parts and solenoids.... so maybe give it a little shot of NOS!


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

10silverbullet said:


> Ive tune myself my beater( vr6 supercharge nitrous) with an SDS stand alone and ive also work with Megasquirt so me and my friend from Religion Motorsport plan on making big number on a Mustang dyno so if we push the thing hard will need some kind of insurance! 400$ for rods is fairly cheap if i already plan on disasembling the engine to clean the valve and to delete shaft balancer so im gonna be there anyway!!! upgrading the RS4 valve is not a problem if i have to do it latter the rods will always be there!!!
> 
> And.........i think i have some spare parts and solenoids.... so maybe give it a little shot of NOS!


the rs4 prv is really easy to do when you have the front of the car off. the stock injectors max out at about 350whp+/-, so id look into getting injectors too then. the f23t has a lot of manifold back pressure, so if you can, take the manifold side of the turbo off and have the ports polished up. id like to see a fully done f23t, so ill try and follow this thread for your updates. ill be doing rods and pistons in mine if i keep it long enough. i might be selling mine if cm doesnt cover my clutch failure.


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

im not sure what kind of injector timing youre trying to achieve by your tune, so maybe youll be able to squeeze a little more, but id be afraid to push them too far. good luck


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

10silverbullet said:


> Dont tell my girlfriend but ive just calculate from now what ive spend on parts to make a reliable setup
> HPHP autotech
> F23T
> EURODYNE MAESTRO
> ...


I have brought stuff to Windsor, ON and shipped stuff back out to Canadians before. I see Canada everyday on my way to work.


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

Red5pade said:


> the rs4 prv is really easy to do when you have the front of the car off. the stock injectors max out at about 350whp+/-, so id look into getting injectors too then. the f23t has a lot of manifold back pressure, so if you can, take the manifold side of the turbo off and have the ports polished up. id like to see a fully done f23t, so ill try and follow this thread for your updates. ill be doing rods and pistons in mine if i keep it long enough. i might be selling mine if cm doesnt cover my clutch failure.


I know about the backpressure problem . Actualy i think that why they suffer so much on top end ! But i love the FT cause i want a kind of a sleeper engine bay ! if funny when you kick the ass of a guy and when he want to take a look under the hood actually it looks stock !!! its kind of magical !! (im not kidding you man its just a tune bla bla bla.......and the guy turn around and he think ``**** those VW are Mean 



ill take a look at the port on the manifold though:thumbup:


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

derZeck said:


> I have brought stuff to Windsor, ON and shipped stuff back out to Canadians before. I see Canada everyday on my way to work.


are you saying you could help me saving some money on my next order$$


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## Beachbuggy (Jul 6, 2013)

The wastegate is a pressure release valve, it just happens to control the turbine speed. If you release pressure in the manifold how are you going to make boost?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Beachbuggy said:


> The wastegate is a pressure release valve, it just happens to control the turbine speed. If you release pressure in the manifold how are you going to make boost?


Hehe, he doesnt seem to realize that the wastegate already does this or there will be massive creep in turbocharger setups. If too much pressure is released, your hp takes a nosedive. The problem will always reside in the engine efficiency going up as rpm's climb and, at a certain point, the turbine system not being able to deal with it effectively.


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

I'd say he knows what he is doing. Maybe it's not the wga he is talking about. Polishing everything up will help the most. I'd like to see what he has in mind


Sent from my flip phone


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

10silverbullet said:


> I know about the backpressure problem . Actualy i think that why they suffer so much on top end ! But i love the FT cause i want a kind of a sleeper engine bay ! if funny when you kick the ass of a guy and when he want to take a look under the hood actually it looks stock !!! its kind of magical !! (im not kidding you man its just a tune bla bla bla.......and the guy turn around and he think ``**** those VW are Mean
> 
> Me and my friends from Religion Motorsport want to prototype a kind of a pressure relief thing before the turbo to get rid of the pressure past 5500! dont want to say to much about it but im making some casting plate to get it mold at a local foundery! Cannot say its gonna work gotta try it before!!!
> 
> ill take a look at the port on the manifold though:thumbup:





Beachbuggy said:


> The wastegate is a pressure release valve, it just happens to control the turbine speed. If you release pressure in the manifold how are you going to make boost?





[email protected] said:


> Hehe, he doesnt seem to realize that the wastegate already does this or there will be massive creep in turbocharger setups. If too much pressure is released, your hp takes a nosedive. The problem will always reside in the engine efficiency going up as rpm's climb and, at a certain point, the turbine system not being able to deal with it effectively.













*Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860*


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Word on the street its gonna be the most cost effective big turbo upgrade evaar! MSRP $500 for everything + software + unlimited tech support 24/7

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] Performance (Sep 17, 2013)

:laugh:


*Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860*


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Porting will not do a thing to ease top end BP. Ever see an hourglass? No matter how big you make the tanks, it will only allow it to pass at a certain rate.You housing and turbine is the gatekeeper. When you increase pre/post volume, all that you are essentially doing is altering pre/post pressure zones. This will only shift the curve ever so slightly but it will not alter BP where you reach threshold. It will only work if the pre/post turbine area was a problem to begin with. Which in this case, is not as the OEM has already addressed hi-lo pressure zones. I also looked at the video and wondering if that is an actuator issue or low compressor surge as it seems to straighten out after a certain rpm. Dense cold air can bring this on when you have a mismatching of wheels/housings.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Porting will not do a thing to ease top end BP. ... I also looked at the video and wondering if that is an actuator issue or low compressor surge as it seems to straighten out after a certain rpm. Dense cold air can bring this on when you have a mismatching of wheels/housings.


The F23T is designed for a specific purpose. As with all our products, it works as a repair part. And it works to deliver significant power increases throughout a stock 2.0L engine's rev range. But we make no claim that it's a big turbo. We make no claim that it's in its happy place above 7000rpms. For that kind of thing I'm sure people will still come to you, and I'm also sure your big turbo products will deliver what those customers want. We have our market; you have yours.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Understood. I'm just contributing some technical information to this thread. Many of your customers are probably @ a crossroads and at loss as to what is fiction and what is reality so I feel that certain things need to be clarified. That is all. I'm not here as a marketer. I dont do much of it although I hold that same platform as all of the advertisers here but I'll be here to contribute technical insight whenever I feel that it is necessary without bias.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Al, can you please include your insight on forced induction and the back pressure the FSI platform is plagued by? That may be a good start

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

filthyillness said:


> Al, can you please include your insight on forced induction and the back pressure the FSI platform is plagued by? That may be a good start
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


I would but I dont think that is the scope of the thread. General rule of thumb is that you shouldnt be testing the limits of restriction to build power. It has many side effects that plague the longevity of the engine (valves, seats, guides, combustion irregularities, coolant temps), exhibit strange boost characteristics and exacerbate turbo hardware failure due to crazy egt's


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

10silverbullet said:


> are you saying you could help me saving some money on my next order$$


Yeah. I would just have you ship it to my work in Detroit. I would just have to know ahead of time so I can bring my passport to work and drive a non company vehicle that day. For some reason the company frowns upon taking their cars into a different country


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

So you have to remove the front of the car to do the rs4 psv? I didn't only took me about 10 minutes to do, and i was driving back down the street.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

filthyillness said:


> Al, can you please include your insight on forced induction and the back pressure the FSI platform is plagued by? That may be a good start
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


Small turbine wheel


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Whats RS4 PSV?

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

filthyillness said:


> Whats RS4 PSV?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk











This


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

Pressure Regulating Valve /PRV

The pressure regulating valve allows fuel to escape from the fuel lines when a specified pressure limit is exceeded. If faulty, it can cause a break or tear in the fuel lines, causing a leak. It encases an internal check valve so when that specified pressure is exceeded, it is able to move the check valve open until the pressure is correct.


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Porting will not do a thing to ease top end BP. Ever see an hourglass? No matter how big you make the tanks, it will only allow it to pass at a certain rate.You housing and turbine is the gatekeeper. When you increase pre/post volume, all that you are essentially doing is altering pre/post pressure zones. This will only shift the curve ever so slightly but it will not alter BP where you reach threshold. It will only work if the pre/post turbine area was a problem to begin with. Which in this case, is not as the OEM has already addressed hi-lo pressure zones. I also looked at the video and wondering if that is an actuator issue or low compressor surge as it seems to straighten out after a certain rpm. Dense cold air can bring this on when you have a mismatching of wheels/housings.


ive seen otherwise on k04s. dont see why it wouldnt help on a f23t.

also, are you familiar with a venturi system? heck, i make special systems at work now and i can make a hollow tube move a lot of air with just a little pressure in it. we've shot pens through a 2in pipe up about 40ft using only 40psi. this has nothing to do with the exhaust manifold, just talking about the things you can do with manipulating air :beer:


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

Nevaeh_Speed said:


> So you have to remove the front of the car to do the rs4 psv? I didn't only took me about 10 minutes to do, and i was driving back down the street.


its hard to get to. if you can get a long enough socket and extension back in there, then sure. prolly building the extensions as you slide it all under the mani might do it. we had my front end off anyways, so we did it while it was off. had it done in 2mins like that. ive never done it with the front end on, so i cant comment on that


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Hehe, he doesnt seem to realize that the wastegate already does this or there will be massive creep in turbocharger setups. If too much pressure is released, your hp takes a nosedive. The problem will always reside in the engine efficiency going up as rpm's climb and, at a certain point, the turbine system not being able to deal with it effectively.


Hehe,You think im a idiot i guess? i dont care cause anyway im a former prototype maker and it cost just time and wood to make my wastegate prototyte ! yeah its gonna be a wategate that will work alone ! no more need for the internal wastegate on the turbo OKAY! 

If everyones always going in the same direction were is the developpement? Maybe im going in the wall with this or maybe its gonna end with a patent pending that gonna make me rich who know?


----------



## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

10silverbullet said:


> Hehe,You think im a idiot i guess? i dont care cause anyway im a former prototype maker and it cost just time and wood to make my wastegate prototyte ! yeah its gonna be a wategate that will work alone ! no more need for the internal wastegate on the turbo OKAY!
> 
> If everyones always going in the same direction were is the developpement? Maybe im going in the wall with this or maybe its gonna end with a patent pending that gonna make me rich who know?


People have done external gated k04s before. Regardless, make it open dump and I'm on board with this 


Sent from my flip phone


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

[email protected] Performance said:


> *Text for orders and customer support 24/7 908-259-4860*


HAHA wastegate your wastegate.........funny ! Dont be that guy please! Ill be happy to sell you my revolutionary wastegate cause actually youre not the kind of guy that wakeup in the night with and idea to make better exhaust scavenging while reducing backpressure and still providing enough exhaust flow to spool the turbo in the efficienty range till redline!!!


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

Red5pade said:


> People have done external gated k04s before. Regardless, make it open dump and I'm on board with this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

Red5pade said:


> ive seen otherwise on k04s. dont see why it wouldnt help on a f23t.
> 
> also, are you familiar with a venturi system? heck, i make special systems at work now and i can make a hollow tube move a lot of air with just a little pressure in it. we've shot pens through a 2in pipe up about 40ft using only 40psi. this has nothing to do with the exhaust manifold, just talking about the things you can do with manipulating air :beer:


Again, porting does not alleviate backpressure. Backpressure is caused by a fixed restriction in the chain and unless you are swapping turbine housings and ultimately the turbine wheel (or at the very least clipping it), you're not doing much with overall backpressure.

Yes, I dealt with venturi's jetting carbs back in the day when dealing w/ side draft carbs on my 1st gen rotaries (this was back in the late 80's/early 90's). A venturi system in an exhaust system? So you want to superheat and elevate egt's further by compressing and increasing exhaust velocities which will ultimately dam up the end of the turbine volute? And venturies are also a restriction. If you are planning on using an outside gas source to increase velocity then you'll be sending the 02 sensor erroneous mixtures. If you are trying to induce the bernoulli effect downstream, you're still pulling through a small exducer.... What makes you think that some theoretical outside pressure source does more than an engine (which can build 60+psi in a K series mani/housing) ? Your engine is always trying to overcome this restriction. This is how backpressure is created in the first place. You add more pressure, YOU"LL INCREASE backpressure.


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## 10silverbullet (Oct 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The F23T is designed for a specific purpose. As with all our products, it works as a repair part. And it works to deliver significant power increases throughout a stock 2.0L engine's rev range. But we make no claim that it's a big turbo. We make no claim that it's in its happy place above 7000rpms. For that kind of thing I'm sure people will still come to you, and I'm also sure your big turbo products will deliver what those customers want. We have our market; you have yours.


Like Doug said , there is no actual BP problem with the F23T as it perform very well for and hybrid! 

The fsi/f23t is my plateform for my testing ! dont misunderstand me on that!


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Again, porting does not alleviate backpressure. Backpressure is caused by a fixed restriction in the chain and unless you are swapping turbine housings and ultimately the turbine wheel (or at the very least clipping it), you're not doing much with overall backpressure.
> 
> Yes, I dealt with venturi's jetting carbs back in the day when dealing w/ side draft carbs on my 1st gen rotaries (this was back in the late 80's/early 90's). A venturi system in an exhaust system? So you want to superheat and elevate egt's further by compressing and increasing exhaust velocities which will ultimately dam up the end of the turbine volute? And venturies are also a restriction. If you are planning on using an outside gas source to increase velocity then you'll be sending the 02 sensor erroneous mixtures. If you are trying to induce the bernoulli effect downstream, you're still pulling through a small exducer.... What makes you think that some theoretical outside pressure source does more than an engine (which can build 60+psi in a K series mani/housing) ? Your engine is always trying to overcome this restriction. This is how backpressure is created in the first place. You add more pressure, YOU"LL INCREASE backpressure.


No, it sounded like you was talking about something else. I guess I miss understood what you was saying. 


Sent from my flip phone


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

10silverbullet said:


> Red5pade said:
> 
> 
> > People have done external gated k04s before. Regardless, make it open dump and I'm on board with this
> ...


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh... That RSV sounds like a simple upgrade. Anybody have a link to more info with pics of install (DIY)

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Unless you are taking off the manifold its difficult to get to, you will need to use crowfoot wrenches.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

Clutch Recommendations

I think i'm going to go with Clutch Masters not sure if I will go with the FX200, 300 or 350. I want to retain as close to stock pedal feel as possible since its my DD, but I want to hold the power too


I've heard good things about the HS Tuning RSR clutch too though

Can anyone else chime in on this?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2008)

steveo17 said:


> Clutch Recommendations
> 
> I think i'm going to go with Clutch Masters not sure if I will go with the FX200, 300 or 350. I want to retain as close to stock pedal feel as possible since its my DD, but I want to hold the power too
> 
> ...


The FX series from CM are relatively light on the pedal. I would go with the 350 as it is still organic but with higher holding capacity. We are running a special on these with free shipping if there is interest.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

steveo17 said:


> Clutch Recommendations
> 
> I think i'm going to go with Clutch Masters not sure if I will go with the FX200, 300 or 350. I want to retain as close to stock pedal feel as possible since its my DD, but I want to hold the power too
> 
> ...




I went w/ the RSR from HS Tuning after going through a few Southband Stage 2 street and then Stage 2 endurance. 

The RSR blows it out of the water. It is the best clutch I have felt, and I've been driving modified manual cars for 16 years.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Red5pade said:


> its hard to get to. if you can get a long enough socket and extension back in there, then sure. prolly building the extensions as you slide it all under the mani might do it. we had my front end off anyways, so we did it while it was off. had it done in 2mins like that. ive never done it with the front end on, so i cant comment on that


With a 14mm crowsfoot and a midwell socket, it's cake with the manifold on.


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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> The FX series from CM are relatively light on the pedal. I would go with the 350 as it is still organic but with higher holding capacity. We are running a special on these with free shipping if there is interest.


:thumbup:

Clutchmasters is great.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

xtravbx said:


> I went w/ the RSR from HS Tuning after going through a few Southband Stage 2 street and then Stage 2 endurance.
> 
> The RSR blows it out of the water. It is the best clutch I have felt, and I've been driving modified manual cars for 16 years.


which flywheel are you using? the HS Tuning RSR does not include a flywheel right?



what turbo setup do you have?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

steveo17 said:


> which flywheel are you using? the HS Tuning RSR does not include a flywheel right?
> 
> 
> 
> what turbo setup do you have?




I have F23T.

Running the dual mass stock flywheel found in the Golf R.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

xtravbx said:


> I have F23T.
> 
> Running the dual mass stock flywheel found in the Golf R.


gotcha. do you have a part number for that flywheel?


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> Oh... That RSV sounds like a simple upgrade. Anybody have a link to more info with pics of install (DIY)
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


I don't think there is one. It's pretty strait forward though, just hard to see and get to. Some people say it's easy I guess and some say it's hard to reach. Good luck. 


Sent from my flip phone


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

Red5pade said:


> I don't think there is one. It's pretty strait forward though, just hard to see and get to. Some people say it's easy I guess and some say it's hard to reach. Good luck.
> 
> 
> Sent from my flip phone


I did some searching on Google and found one. I'll see if I can find it again

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

bingo:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Pressure-Regulator-Valve-Install-Replacement

this one is for an audi, but with the same engine, just longitudinal rather than transversal


also this is a right up from golfmkv:

RS4 Valve Part #: 079130757
Bleed off HPFP pressure using bleed valve
Remove HPFP line on the right
Remove T30 Torx on front bottom right
Release fuel line clamp
Loosen T30 Torx for the fuel lines on top of the manifold
Use 14mm crow foot to remove fuel line from OEM FPV
Use 17mm crow foot to remove the FPV
Use leverage with wrench at front of intake manifold to pull fuel line from FPV so it can be removed
Thread RS4 FPV into fuel rail
Tighten with 17mm crow foot
Tighten fuel line to FPV using 14mm crow foot
Tighten fuel line on HPFP
Tighten 3 fuel line T30 on the intake manifold
Turn ignition to accessory to prime fuel rail and inspect for any fuel leakage. Tighten anything as required.
Start and let idle. Again check for any fuel leakage or any other issues
Enjoy your upgrade!


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

How difficult would it be to install upgraded internals into the oem hpfp? Instead of buying one. Im savvy with muh hands but ive less experience with things like this in comparison

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> How difficult would it be to install upgraded internals into the oem hpfp? Instead of buying one. Im savvy with muh hands but ive less experience with things like this in comparison
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


It's fairly easy, just be careful and don't force the internals in. If it doesn't slide in, don't force it. I know there's some Mazda guys with a DIY vid on YouTube. 


Sent from my flip phone


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Werd. It's in the works aslong as i can get in contact with the guy selling a hpfp shell

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

filthyillness said:


> Werd. It's in the works aslong as i can get in contact with the guy selling a hpfp shell
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


this guy has oem pumps for $100 http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/member.php?u=48214


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

I think thats one of the ones i seen. I couldnt remember where i saw it. Thanks!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## Red5pade (Aug 13, 2012)

bump


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

filthyillness said:


> How difficult would it be to install upgraded internals into the oem hpfp? Instead of buying one. Im savvy with muh hands but ive less experience with things like this in comparison
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


The issue you run into with using a pre-ran pump is the seal that keeps the fuel from mixing with the oil will begin to leak. When you install the rebuild kit into the used pump it slightly stretches that seal that has been the same size through it's whole life and all those heat cycles. I helped with testing pumps and doing builds on them.......failure rate was crazy when using a pump more than a few hundred or thousand miles old. It's highly recommended to get a brand new pump and build it. Will be a little cheaper than just buying a built pump outright, but not much.

I have quite a few pump housings, used pumps, new pumps, etc. if you're interested(just PM me). But from my experience, it's better to build a brand new pump. I had a few lock up fully, some just leaked fuel into oil and caused crazy idle and backfiring. So we determined that when you use a new pump to build it.....flawless operation every time. As far as the rebuild....it's very easy and straight-forward to do. Just have to follow break-in procedures depending on the brand you go with.
J. Hines


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

Everything JHines said. :thumbup: I had one lock up on my and shatter my follower. It also took out of cam chain cover when it went.


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Right on. Makes perfect sense.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Logs from Audi A4 FSI running the F23L on Epic Tuning file*

Not every of our F23-series turbos are going into transversal engines. We're also testing our F23L for the B7 and B8 series cars. Earlier this week, a built-motor A4 had all four axles strapped to a Dynapack dyno, where it pulled almost exactly 300hp to all four corners while on Epic Tuning software. The curve was a bit uneven, and there are bugs to work out of the tune, but things look very promising for the turbo on that platform.

Logs:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Excellent numbers for that much PSI


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

Damn that's impressive for a baseline. I imagine you will be able to turn the boost up quiet a bit being that the car has a built motor? 

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Dyno on built motor with Maestro stock injector file*

A Mk5 FSI stopped in to ForceFed Engineering yesterday for some dyno tuning. With only four tweaks of the "stock-motor-safe" base Eurodyne file we ended up with some pretty nice numbers. I'm breaking them out by three different correction types:



SAE
STD
UNCORRECTED































Thanks to Fabian at FFE for a quick collaboration on this built-motor map. C.Tapp at Eurodyne is reviewing it, and if he's satisfied will likely add it to the Eurodyne base library.

:beer:


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

^

What boost levels was this tune running?

Also, what modifications were done to this (rs4 rpv, intercooler, rods, pistons, if pistons what compression ratio?)

Thanks!


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

majic said:


> ^
> 
> What boost levels was this tune running?
> 
> ...


Pretty sure it was just rods

Making about 25 psi at peak. Couldn't tell due to not having golf r sensor

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> A Mk5 FSI stopped in to ForceFed Engineering yesterday for some dyno tuning. With only four tweaks of the "stock-motor-safe" base Eurodyne file we ended up with some pretty nice numbers. I'm breaking them out by three different correction types:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





majic said:


> ^
> 
> What boost levels was this tune running?
> 
> ...



C.Tapp is refining the high pressure fuel system performance right now, with the car back on the dyno to confirm everything's nominal. Once that's done, I'll post logs. Thx


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> C.Tapp is refining the high pressure fuel system performance right now, with the car back on the dyno to confirm everything's nominal. Once that's done, I'll post logs. Thx


I notice things get rough around 5200 w/ his file. I experience the same thing, but definite misfires etc. I'd love to get a copy his finalized file, please.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Travis, if you'd like a revised file I can do a few good things for you. Send me your latest file (if you'd like) and I can cook up something.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Pure.Dope said:


> Send me your latest file (if you'd like) and I can cook up something.


I'd like to have a look at that as well.


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## molo_gdl (Mar 26, 2007)

Hello Doug,

Have you done any updates to this turbo since it was launched? By no means I am saying that there is something wrong with it, but I am curious if any improvement had been made from the first units sold. This, as many other products (if not all) go through a learning curve, and would love to know where this turbo is.

Thanks Doug!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

No changes to date, although we're tinkering a little with the actuator and the entire control assembly. We need to tighten up repeatability for tuners and so we've got a couple of tweaks in the pipeline. Sorry this isn't very sexy-sounding, but it'll increase the turbo's appeal to mass-market tuners.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> No changes to date, although we're tinkering a little with the actuator and the entire control assembly. We need to tighten up repeatability for tuners and so we've got a couple of tweaks in the pipeline. Sorry this isn't very sexy-sounding, but it'll increase the turbo's appeal to mass-market tuners.


Im glad you are taking into consideration the comments and results the tuners have been seeing with your actuators on the F23T line. Hopefully repeatable results can be had in the near future, and more solid tuning options unfold.:beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Thx


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> Travis, if you'd like a revised file I can do a few good things for you. Send me your latest file (if you'd like) and I can cook up something.


Thanks bud. I would! But I'm tossing in S3 injectors, RS4 fuel rail valve, 3 bar MAP sensor, and cleaning my valves w/in the next month I think, so I'm not too worried about it at the moment.

I will have to change my tune anyways.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

S3 vs RS4 injectors?

Just curious the decision between the two?


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

majic said:


> S3 vs RS4 injectors?
> 
> Just curious the decision between the two?


A few things but most notably the spray pattern, s3 is a better choice for this application


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4991112-Stock-vs-S3-vs-RS4-injectors-SOME-GOOD-INFO


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Not everyone wants mad HPs. Some, like this customer, want decent power on their *stock fuel injectors* that's safe for their FSI engine's internals. Here's the latest example how well Eurodyne's Maestro software can deliver that.


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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Remember, stock replacement part. Does pretty good for being a budget replacement turbo. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majic said:


> S3 vs RS4 injectors?
> 
> Just curious the decision between the two?


RS4 injectors are not meant for a forced induction car.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

xtravbx said:


> RS4 injectors are not meant for a forced induction car.


What is meant by this? Is it simply the spray pattern?

There seems to be a lot of conflicting data regarding the injector characteristics.

I'm just after hard data/evidence instead of circular claims that are permulgated by unsubstantiated evidence.

All I'm saying is tuners want to keep us in the dark. The less data we have the less well informed decisions we can make.

I am not by any means bashing APR when I bring them up. They have developed incredible products at top notch quality, and invested countless resources in testing their products, and fiercely defend their intellectual property. But for the free market where we get to make decisions, and aren't invading anyone's technical arena (save the OEM, which, of we were interested in preserving their IP we wouldn't be tweaking and hacking their product to stretch performance)

I only raise this as a sort of academic question. If the S3 injectors are the best, let the data show it!


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## MK6813 (Jan 4, 2014)

majic said:


> What is meant by this? Is it simply the spray pattern?
> 
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting data regarding the injector characteristics.
> 
> ...


What are you wanting to see/know? 

I've calibrated both at an OEM level (ex: not using an injector wizard). I've had a GTX3071R Golf R pushing both at >450whp. 

There is no benefit to the RS4 injectors in any situation. After that experience and time wasted on finding the right injection angle, rail pressure, min injection time, inj constant, cold start and many other things I concluded the RS4 injectors are junk. 

Less fuel economy, not designed for the combustion taking place in the 2.0T FSI and does not offer any extra fueling headroom. The obvious choice is the injector designed for this engine that comes from Bosch with additional fueling compacity.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

majic said:


> What is meant by this? Is it simply the spray pattern?
> 
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting data regarding the injector characteristics.
> 
> ...


RS4 injectors were the ONLY option a long time ago. S3/R injectors came later, and pricing was high, then more recently the pricing has become more reasonable instead of 800 or more a set.

S3/R injectors are proper for the motor, period. 

RS4 injectors are not proper for the 2.0tfsi, BUT are plenty usable, and make plenty power. I'd only recommend for those looking for major HP(500whp+).

I will defend the statement of tuners holding onto IP, etc, Being secretive, towards the injectors specifically. If you cannot find the specs on google, then its likely that these specs are not public domain(they arent afaik). IF you were lucky enough to receive some sort of spec sheet or information in regards to these injectors from Bosch, you would respect the privacy and copyright information associated with those documents.

Bosch reads forums too FYI


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

RaraK69 said:


> RS4 injectors were the ONLY option a long time ago. S3/R injectors came later, and pricing was high, then more recently the pricing has become more reasonable instead of 800 or more a set.
> 
> S3/R injectors are proper for the motor, period.
> 
> ...


Bosch obviously won't release spec sheets if someone else has paid them not to. However, eventually people will put them through proper characterization, and will want to release that information.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

MK6813 said:


> What are you wanting to see/know?
> 
> I've calibrated both at an OEM level (ex: not using an injector wizard). I've had a GTX3071R Golf R pushing both at >450whp.
> 
> ...


I'm no authority, but this would certainly speak to me as rigor of testing. I appreciate info like that versus "I heard of a guy that once said such and such" 

I'm just asking for primary sources, and am curious what others experiences have been.


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

I actually bought the s3 injectors new from a new vw dealership when my k04 setup was done. I ended up having a 3rd cylinder misfire. I was going to buy a new injector but they were around 200 just for one injector. Switched to a used set of rs4 injectors for 125 bucks when i went bt and never had an issue. Cold starts blow but it's an inconvenience I'm willing to pay.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

im sorry im lazy and dont want to read the last 60 pages..

can someone just give me the quick cliff notes on this? i have my cylinder head off right now and am heavily contemplating adding a k04 or Ft since the labor is already done, but im only really interested if its a direct bolt on with a different tune (im gonzo stg2 right now) i have an fsi engine but i dont have any of that noise maker pipe stuff.


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

DUB_MANGv2 said:


> im sorry im lazy and dont want to read the last 60 pages..
> 
> can someone just give me the quick cliff notes on this? i have my cylinder head off right now and am heavily contemplating adding a k04 or Ft since the labor is already done, but im only really interested if its a direct bolt on with a different tune (im gonzo stg2 right now) i have an fsi engine but i dont have any of that noise maker pipe stuff.


f23 is hybrid turbo - can be run with stock fueling, can be run with not stock fueling, gonzo sucks, frankenturbo sucks, gonzo sucks, frankenturbo sucks, real application results of 300-360whp, waste gate actuators, tuning is a mixed bag


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

alexj87 said:


> f23 is hybrid turbo - can be run with stock fueling, can be run with not stock fueling, gonzo sucks, frankenturbo sucks, gonzo sucks, frankenturbo sucks, real application results of 300-360whp, waste gate actuators, tuning is a mixed bag


What doesn't suck?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## alexj87 (Mar 20, 2011)

skyrolla89 said:


> What doesn't suck?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Anything properly executed.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Ya'avin a giggle m8?


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## zecgti (Aug 23, 2013)

alexj87 said:


> f23 is hybrid turbo - can be run with stock fueling, can be run with not stock fueling, gonzo sucks, frankenturbo sucks, gonzo sucks, frankenturbo sucks, real application results of 300-360whp, waste gate actuators, tuning is a mixed bag


looooool


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

alexj87 said:


> f23 is hybrid turbo - can be run with stock fueling, can be run with not stock fueling, gonzo sucks, frankenturbo sucks, gonzo sucks, frankenturbo sucks, real application results of 300-360whp, waste gate actuators, tuning is a mixed bag


lol
gonzo was name dropped? ive been happy with the stage2.
i guess ill just put the new gaskets back on and keep my ko3


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

DUB_MANGv2 said:


> im sorry im lazy and dont want to read the last 60 pages..
> 
> ... am heavily contemplating adding a k04 or Ft since the labor is already done, but im only really interested if its a direct bolt on with a different tune... i have an fsi engine but i dont have any of that noise maker pipe stuff.


You will need to upgrade the high pressure fuel pump no matter what. With that done, my recommendation would be Eurodyne's Maestro. It sounds like you are a DIY sort and Maestro is your best option for tuning that custom build.


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## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

I completely disagree that rs4 injectors do not have more fueling headroom at higher rail pressures. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I'd like to post a set of logs sent by a stock-motor customer to show how well this turbo works on a modestly modified car. Basically, this is what is possible even when the F23T is being used as just a repair part. Stock motor, stock injectors. Eurodyne's "off the shelf" flash which was slightly tweaked to drop the boost safely within the 300whtq limit set by the customer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*Epic Tuning data logs for B7-series Audi A4 w/S3 injectors*

Epic Tuning just sent us these logs from their shop car running the F23L turbo paired with S3 injectors. Boost control is spot-on.











Nice stuff.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

More logs, this time from a customer running stock injectors with Eurodyne.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> More logs, this time from a customer running stock injectors with Eurodyne.


:thumbup::laugh::thumbup:


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## DroppinTheSasquatch (Oct 5, 2003)

Any 1/4 times out there yet?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I have my fueling issued resolved.. now I need to run a log and see if I can have the collective mind help diagnose a boosting issue...

I'm trying to hold about 26psi to redline. It hits it, holds it, drops to 14ish around 5000, climbs back up, drops down, its like its fighting to hold the boost... I'll run a log. Just tossing it out there.


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

xtravbx said:


> I have my fueling issued resolved.. now I need to run a log and see if I can have the collective mind help diagnose a boosting issue...
> 
> I'm trying to hold about 26psi to redline. It hits it, holds it, drops to 14ish around 5000, climbs back up, drops down, its like its fighting to hold the boost... I'll run a log. Just tossing it out there.


Log your N75% and see if its staying solid and not dropping when the boost drops. It does sound like the wastegate may be being forced open due to extreme backpressure in the manifold/turbine housing.

holding 26psi to redline is a bit much on the heat side, id surely log your IAT's and EGT's at that point.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

RaraK69 said:


> Log your N75% and see if its staying solid and not dropping when the boost drops. It does sound like the wastegate may be being forced open due to extreme backpressure in the manifold/turbine housing.
> 
> holding 26psi to redline is a bit much on the heat side, id surely log your IAT's and EGT's at that point.


Egt's are phony on med9 aren't they? as in, they are calculated?

Also... For those interested or curious in getting a standalone wideband, any thoughts or ideas on how to get a good RPM signal? I know pre-canbus there was a way to splice into the tach signal, but now I'm pretty sure the tach is all can-bus info.

This could be useful in logging egt/afr etc


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

RaraK69 said:


> Log your N75% and see if its staying solid and not dropping when the boost drops. It does sound like the wastegate may be being forced open due to extreme backpressure in the manifold/turbine housing.
> 
> holding 26psi to redline is a bit much on the heat side, id surely log your IAT's and EGT's at that point.


What was your fueling issue? I keep throwing solenoid mechanical malfunction codes and get a MIL every now and again. Logs indicate up to a 30bar difference from spec. I don't appreciate any detonation, but I think I have some significant timing pull. I'm just running actuator pressure at the moment so it's not a desperate situation.

Thoughts?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

majic said:


> What was your fueling issue? I keep throwing solenoid mechanical malfunction codes and get a MIL every now and again. Logs indicate up to a 30bar difference from spec. I don't appreciate any detonation, but I think I have some significant timing pull. I'm just running actuator pressure at the moment so it's not a desperate situation.
> 
> Thoughts?


Ah, answered my own question, for those interested: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3791141


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## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

> Egt's are phony on med9 aren't they? as in, they are calculated?
> 
> Also... For those interested or curious in getting a standalone wideband, any thoughts or ideas on how to get a good RPM signal? I know pre-canbus there was a way to splice into the tach signal, but now I'm pretty sure the tach is all can-bus info.
> 
> This could be useful in logging egt/afr etc


well they are not derived from an EGT sensor, but calculated based upon an extensive exhaust gas model.

RPM signal, probably going to need to get him from the canbus. I know on the older car's and some audi's up to b7 had both canbus and the "wire" for RPM, newer car's do not have that.




majic said:


> What was your fueling issue? I keep throwing solenoid mechanical malfunction codes and get a MIL every now and again. Logs indicate up to a 30bar difference from spec. I don't appreciate any detonation, but I think I have some significant timing pull. I'm just running actuator pressure at the moment so it's not a desperate situation.
> 
> Thoughts?


I dont have fuel issues, but a 30 bar difference is weak rail valve or failing HPFP usually.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Ok. Who knows FSI MKV's?
Car is running stupid rich. 
Lambda is .65-.70
Installed new injectors
Compression on all 4 cylinders is 180
Fuel pressure is good on LP and HP side
New upstream O2
New plugs
New red top coils
Nothing shows up in an autoscan
No codes other than misfires 
DoTuning software
Taylor has been helping me out a ton, but we just can not figure it out. 

Any suggestions?


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

derZeck said:


> Ok. Who knows FSI MKV's?
> Car is running stupid rich.
> Lambda is .65-.70
> Installed new injectors
> ...


Hey man, I saw you post this on FB. I hope you get it sorted. You'll probably have better luck with another tune tbh.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Bunnspeed said:


> Hey man, I saw you post this on FB. I hope you get it sorted. You'll probably have better luck with another tune tbh.


Talked to a couple other tuners. They do not believe it's a software issue either


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Is this a MAFless file? Or is the MAF active? Does it run rich when in vacuum? Or only when in boost?


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

What are your long and short term fuel trims? What HPFP are you running? Block 32 in VC. :thumbup:


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

MAFless file
Runs rich in vacuum only

I had a plugged rear PCV tube. When I disconnected it, lambda went right back up to 1.00 at idle


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

So I'm going to go out on a limb here. First, remove your oil cap and take a good wiff. Does it smell like gas? I mean like REALLY like gasoline? If so you are probably seeing gasoline leak out of the HPFP and into the crank case. The gas then vaporizes and runs through your PCV system and into your intake. The easiest way to tell is the error code 'Rich at idle', the gas smell, and the block 32 reading which is most likely at -25%.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

SmithersSP said:


> So I'm going to go out on a limb here. First, remove your oil cap and take a good wiff. Does it smell like gas? I mean like REALLY like gasoline? If so you are probably seeing gasoline leak out of the HPFP and into the crank case. The gas then vaporizes and runs through your PCV system and into your intake. The easiest way to tell is the error code 'Rich at idle', the gas smell, and the block 32 reading which is most likely at -25%.



He fixed it. He had a blocked PCV tube. See above. =)


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

I also discovered I had a leaking HPFP 








After fixing the blocked vacuum port, I changed my oil. Drove it around town a little bit and there was fuel in my oil again :/

I picked up a new one today, swapped it out. It got too late to change my oil again. So that's what I am doing tomorrow right when I get off work.


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> He fixed it. He had a blocked PCV tube. See above. =)


HA! IN YO FACE! 

The reason I knew is because when you temporarily block off the PCV it prevents all that vaporized gas emanating from the oil from entering the intake and then the engine runs stoich again. :thumbup: That and this same issue happened to pretty much every early FSI user with an upgraded pump. 

Glad you got it fixed. :thumbup:


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

So if you get a new pump, assuming the internals of your upgraded pump aren't worn out, can you just replace the upgraded internals on the new pump?


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

majic said:


> So if you get a new pump, assuming the internals of your upgraded pump aren't worn out, can you just replace the upgraded internals on the new pump?


Thats exactly what hes doing, and for the record, I told him a month ago to check his pcv system, as well see what happens when u renove the oil cap haha pretty awesome to see it on the road again, sorry but I gotta tease ya joe


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## SmithersSP (May 24, 2006)

majic said:


> So if you get a new pump, assuming the internals of your upgraded pump aren't worn out, can you just replace the upgraded internals on the new pump?


Yeah. You need to be careful though and really inspect the aftermarket internals from your old pump. Make sure there aren't any scratches in the shaft or dents on the end sections. I don't even recommend placing upgraded internals into a used pump as the seal is already worn in to match the stock shaft geometry. Placing a new set of internals in a used pump generally results in a leaking seal. If my HPFPupgrade prototype pump fails (knock on wood) I think I'll be going with the new IE solution due to its custom seal and the superior control of the shaft diameter. I would feel comfortable installing this product in a used pump due to the replacement of the seal. :thumbup:
http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-high-pressure-fuel-pump-hpfp-upgrade-kit-for-2-0t-fsi-engines


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

vegamotion said:


> Thats exactly what hes doing, and for the record, I told him a month ago to check his pcv system, as well see what happens when u renove the oil cap haha pretty awesome to see it on the road again, sorry but I gotta tease ya joe


Well you got to take a ride in it today. It's pretty quick.... Again


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## vegamotion (Sep 1, 2009)

derZeck said:


> Well you got to take a ride in it today. It's pretty quick.... Again


Ur welcome.... again


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Really interested in getting a f23t, but a few questions on Mastero. 
> Can it be flashed over a APR tune? 
> Is there a runner flap delete tune availalable?
> Can I run S3 injectors? S4 FRV? Golf R MAP sensor?
> Are these all custom tunes or is there a base tune for the F23T?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

GTI2Slow said:


> Really interested in getting a f23t, but a few questions on Mastero.
> > Can it be flashed over a APR tune?
> > Is there a runner flap delete tune availalable?
> > Can I run S3 injectors? S4 FRV? Golf R MAP sensor?
> > Are these all custom tunes or is there a base tune for the F23T?


They are all base tunes

You can run S3 injectors 

The 3bar map appears in some tunes, and not others. Apparently audi folks do not get it. It's in the gti and Jetta file, but... I guess Tapp never added it to the audi tune.

It can be flashed over APR, that's exactly what I did.

There is no runner flap delete at the moment.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majic said:


> They are all base tunes
> 
> You can run S3 injectors
> 
> ...


There is runner flap delete, FYI


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

For audi? Or just te VW maps? I wish Tapp would update the audi maps with the same stuff the Vw ones have


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## GTI2Slow (Jun 23, 2007)

Are these maps included with the purchase of Mastero or are they purchased separately? Can they be adjusted by a local tuner or are they locked/encrypted?


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## DroppinTheSasquatch (Oct 5, 2003)

Any info on the RFD? How do I implement it on Maestro?

Running a FSI GTI


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

DroppinTheSasquatch said:


> Any info on the RFD? How do I implement it on Maestro?
> 
> Running a FSI GTI


emaiil eurodyne support


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

GTI2Slow said:


> Are these maps included with the purchase of Mastero or are they purchased separately? Can they be adjusted by a local tuner or are they locked/encrypted?


Whatever maps they have available for your ECU part number are included in that price. There are no "options" to pay extra for. Also, it's possible to exchange maps with Maestro users who have the same ECU. Maestro has the ability to import and export individual maps such as boost or fueling.

Thx


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Whatever maps they have available for your ECU part number are included in that price. There are no "options" to pay extra for. Also, it's possible to exchange maps with Maestro users who have the same ECU. Maestro has the ability to import and export individual maps such as boost or fueling.
> 
> Thx


Doug what if the ECU part number differs, but it is the same car?

IE I am a "1K011B" and then theres a "1K0115H"


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Chris Tapp at Eurodyne told me it's a no-no to import individual maps coming from a Maestro tune for a different ECU. And I haven't questioned that.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Chris Tapp at Eurodyne told me it's a no-no to import individual maps coming from a Maestro tune for a different ECU. And I haven't questioned that.



Definitely breaks things. You end up with a no start condition I believe.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

majic said:


> For audi? Or just te VW maps? I wish Tapp would update the audi maps with the same stuff the Vw ones have




Both - you just have to manually go in and make the changes.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

And that's a really easy process. I know it's tempting to just import a given map into your file, but it's not worth the risk. Not when you can simply screen-shot the map you want to emulate and simply fill in the cels to match. Two or three minutes of work.


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## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

> [email protected]


Can I get just the F23T turbo? I would have another DM Tune sent for it.

I already have an up and running K04 and wanted to know if just the turbo is available as I assume it would fit all that I have. 
Or, can a rebuild to my K04 be done? ← It is in fine condition.
And what would the turn around on that be?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Drop us a line by email: [email protected]


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> And that's a really easy process. I know it's tempting to just import a given map into your file, but it's not worth the risk. Not when you can simply screen-shot the map you want to emulate and simply fill in the cels to match. Two or three minutes of work.


I'm not sure this is completely true. I've successfully imported maps from another ECU#. I think as long as they are the same map name and cell grid it's fine. At worst you revert and reflash.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Solid results on a hot, muggy day at FFE's dyno. This is a Eurodyne Maestro-tuned GTI running STOCK INJECTORS. The car has an excellent intercooling system -- A Golf R unit in the stock location coupled to a TwinterCooler -- which helped a lot with managing the hot ambient temps.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Solid results on a hot, muggy day at FFE's dyno. This is a Eurodyne Maestro-tuned GTI running STOCK INJECTORS. The car has an excellent intercooling system -- A Golf R unit in the stock location coupled to a TwinterCooler -- which helped a lot with managing the hot ambient temps.



Looking forward to picking up. Did you ever log IATs while dynoing the car? 


Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

37˚C - 39˚C on every pull. Basically ambient. I've seen logs from other cars running in ambient temperatures 30˚C cooler that nevertheless see these IATs. I don't think it mattered how hot it was. Your car couldn't be bothered.


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

[email protected]o.com said:


> 37˚C - 39˚C on every pull. Basically ambient. I've seen logs from other cars running in ambient temperatures 30˚C cooler that nevertheless see these IATs. I don't think it mattered how hot it was. Your car couldn't be bothered.


Wow that's great! I guess the double cooler setup works great for this turbo! 

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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

steveo17 said:


> Wow that's great! I guess the double cooler setup works great for this turbo!


Here is video taken during that hot day last week. Our EGT monitoring showed max temperatures well under the manufacturer's 1050˚c temperature limit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

An F23T with ceramic coating getting final prep before shipping to an FSI Mk5 owner. Software will be Eurodyne on stock injectors with WMI injection.


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## S-LineVinny (Dec 2, 2014)

Anyone from Ontario, Canada have any experience with getting their car tuned for the F23t? The DM tune looked pretty good and so does eurodyne but I would want someone competent to be doing the tuning if I went with Eurodyne.. experiences/comments?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

S-LineVinny said:


> Anyone from Ontario, Canada have any experience with getting their car tuned for the F23t? The DM tune looked pretty good and so does eurodyne but I would want someone competent to be doing the tuning if I went with Eurodyne.. experiences/comments?


Hi there and welcome to the vortex forums. In case you don't get answers here I'd encourage you to take a look through this thread on another forum:

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186644


Lots of hands-on info by Mk5 owners running the F23T there.


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## DroppinTheSasquatch (Oct 5, 2003)

S-LineVinny said:


> Anyone from Ontario, Canada have any experience with getting their car tuned for the F23t? The DM tune looked pretty good and so does eurodyne but I would want someone competent to be doing the tuning if I went with Eurodyne.. experiences/comments?


I have an F23 on my FSI - Doug has been great and I made 326whp at DaSilva Racing's dyno


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Dyno sheet?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

F23T Mk5 meets Dodge Challenger. Mmmm-buh-bye!


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## Scottsbrig (Aug 12, 2015)

Has anybody had any luck hearing from DM recently? I've sent a few emails over the past few months with no response. I'm about to pull the trigger on an F23T from my stage 2+ so I stoped by my local shop/DM dealer "audubs" in Wilmington NC to talk to them about it. What they told me was a little discouraging. Apparently Bronson "DM" does not like to do Frankenturbo tunes because of the turbos inconsistencies. Between that and them not responding to me I'm wondering if anybody else has some recent f23T/DM experience. They are my only local tuning company and I don't want to have to dish out the cash for a whole new tune. Can anybody chime in? 


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## steveo17 (Feb 9, 2010)

Scottsbrig said:


> Has anybody had any luck hearing from DM recently? I've sent a few emails over the past few months with no response. I'm about to pull the trigger on an F23T from my stage 2+ so I stoped by my local shop/DM dealer "audubs" in Wilmington NC to talk to them about it. What they told me was a little discouraging. Apparently Bronson "DM" does not like to do Frankenturbo tunes because of the turbos inconsistencies. Between that and them not responding to me I'm wondering if anybody else has some recent f23T/DM experience. They are my only local tuning company and I don't want to have to dish out the cash for a whole new tune. Can anybody chime in?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


They don't support the f23t anymore. Haven't for over a year now. I wasn't happy with them at all. Some of it wasn't their fault, but they really are next to impossible to get in touch with. Not sure how you attempt to run a business if you never respond to emails....

I have eurodyne and it's been good. Needs to be tuned by a pro to maximize the power potential though. I've been running the base tune which gets me by


You can also check out e tuners who have a guy I've been in contact with in nj (where I live) They do custom tuning as well

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## Scottsbrig (Aug 12, 2015)

steveo17 said:


> They don't support the f23t anymore. Haven't for over a year now. I wasn't happy with them at all. Some of it wasn't their fault, but they really are next to impossible to get in touch with. Not sure how you attempt to run a business if you never respond to emails....
> 
> I have eurodyne and it's been good. Needs to be tuned by a pro to maximize the power potential though. I've been running the base tune which gets me by
> 
> ...





steveo17 said:


> They don't support the f23t anymore. Haven't for over a year now. I wasn't happy with them at all. Some of it wasn't their fault, but they really are next to impossible to get in touch with. Not sure how you attempt to run a business if you never respond to emails....
> 
> I have eurodyne and it's been good. Needs to be tuned by a pro to maximize the power potential though. I've been running the base tune which gets me by
> 
> ...


Its a damn shame. after I posted on here I found something on another forum suggesting that driver motorsports is going through something within the company and they are going to do a press release about on their website soon. That was on the 9th. How reliable that is? Who knows. But its something for us current "customers" to watch for i guess. Im gonna msg you back in a bit. 

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## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

If anyone needs a custom tune, I can certainly help. You must be able to take logs with VCDS, though.


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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

Scottsbrig said:


> Has anybody had any luck hearing from DM recently? I've sent a few emails over the past few months with no response. I'm about to pull the trigger on an F23T from my stage 2+ so I stoped by my local shop/DM dealer "audubs" in Wilmington NC to talk to them about it. What they told me was a little discouraging. Apparently Bronson "DM" does not like to do Frankenturbo tunes because of the turbos inconsistencies. Between that and them not responding to me I'm wondering if anybody else has some recent f23T/DM experience. They are my only local tuning company and I don't want to have to dish out the cash for a whole new tune. Can anybody chime in?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Do yourself a favor. Go K04. 
I'm not going to bash Doug, he is actually a very nice guy. 
I was one of the early F23T customers. 
Sadly I am no longer a VW owner. 

Are you willing to risk a $6000 motor to save less than $1000 by get a poorly sported product that has been plagued with issues since day one?


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

Derzeck, state your claim for that directly indirect comment.

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## Scottsbrig (Aug 12, 2015)

Seriously... lol

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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

F23t has had its quirks just like ANY other product on the market. Manufacturer defects happen regardless if it's of a new product or one that's been out for years. From those I know and have read from have worked with Doug to get this kit where it is today. With capabilities of 350-375whp with simple stage 2+ add ons, this is the definition of "best bang for buck."

If you love your k04's than I don't know what you're bitching because that's exactly what the f23t is. A k04 for bigger, better, internals. Hell, on the website it says "designed to be a factory replacement." Who the hell do you know that makes factor replacements that will net you an additional 50-60 whp???

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## Scottsbrig (Aug 12, 2015)

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## derZeck (Nov 26, 2011)

filthyillness said:


> F23t has had its quirks just like ANY other product on the market. Manufacturer defects happen regardless if it's of a new product or one that's been out for years. From those I know and have read from have worked with Doug to get this kit where it is today. With capabilities of 350-375whp with simple stage 2+ add ons, this is the definition of "best bang for buck."
> 
> If you love your k04's than I don't know what you're bitching because that's exactly what the f23t is. A k04 for bigger, better, internals. Hell, on the website it says "designed to be a factory replacement." Who the hell do you know that makes factor replacements that will net you an additional 50-60 whp???
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


First of all, it definitely is not a factory replacement. I was mesmerized by that statement too. You need to modify or replace parts not included in to kit to make the car function. 
The F23T is not basically a K04, it is basically a K03 with modified internals. 

I personally have worked though two engine failures where the direct cause was the F23T. Both cars were on different software, but identical parts. 


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## filthyillness (Feb 13, 2010)

To each there own. There are a many of people who have utilized the f23t with results to follow. Yes, like I said, parts can be faulty. That's why there's insurance, warranty's, and such. Plus, and anyone can agree, that modifying cars is never a perfect road.

You, or your mechanic, may have overlooked the cause. If it was because of the f23t, what happened? I'm sure you contacted Frakenturbo about it and any possibility of it happening again may have been addressed. Faulty part or maybe something else was the cause which in turn affected in a chain. Did you look outward or inward for the cause. Maybe it started elsewhere and ended at the turbo. Hmmm...

You're actually the first person, I've read or heard, who has had that kind of detrimental failure.

Also, people have had just as much, but probably more reports made, of the k04 causing issues. I'm 100% sure there are more k04 failures causing such problems than people are aware of.

A bit more. When I got my kit, it came with quite a bit. Manifold to new DV, wastegate, all the way down to the little hose there. New exhaust studs and bolts, gaskets, more hoses and clamps, more I can't remember right now. What's missing?

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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

How the hell do you get engine failures from a turbo? 

Why bash Doug. You had to have missed something somewhere or not tuned it properly to blow an engine. I've installed 10 FT on multiple customers cars and 3 on my own personal cars. Never had a problem. Running eurodyne with mine and getting it dyno tuned soon for the full effect. 

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## Tutti57 (Jun 20, 2011)

Two stock turbo failures here, zero engine damage, even with a foreign Object going into the turbo. Damn Borg Warner! Well, one of those was my fault. You get the point. 

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## Juiced6 (Feb 1, 2004)

[email protected] Performance said:


> If anyone needs a custom tune, I can certainly help. You must be able to take logs with VCDS, though.


sent a PM

I am interested


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## GTI4john74 (Sep 23, 2008)

read the thread from page 1 all the way to the end...very informative...

So what's the current status of this hardware issue on FT then? Has the WG actuator been fixed? 

Also which Tuner supports the hardware so far?


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