# Amsoil synthetic



## slowerthanu (Sep 25, 2008)

On the Amsoil website, it claims to meet the 505.01 specs for VW, but I do not see it on the list.
Does anyone use Amsoil products in there VW?
Dan


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (slowerthanu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slowerthanu* »_On the Amsoil website, it claims to meet the 505.01 specs for VW, but I do not see it on the list.
Does anyone use Amsoil products in there VW?
Dan


If you read the language carefully you'll see that Amsoil claims no such a thing. What they claim is that the oil was "formulated" to meet 502.00 and 505.01 (primarily a diesel engine oil specification), not that it actually meets any of those specs, and whether or not it _actually_ meets any VW spec is left to faith.
If you have faith in what Amsoil says, then you only have your warranty to worry about. If however, you have no faith in Amsoil's marketing bilge, then you'll avoid their products like the plague.


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## stratclub (Feb 3, 2007)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (slowerthanu)*

Amsoil saves money by not actually having their oils tested and approved by the various car makers. Nowhere does their marketing hype actually say that their oil is approved by the car makers they list.









*APPLICATION
AMSOIL 100% Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:
API SM/CF
ACEA C3-04
ACEA A3/B3-04
ACEA A3/B4-04
ACEA C3 
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51 
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
DaimlerChrysler MS-10725*


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## slowerthanu (Sep 25, 2008)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (stratclub)*

I just spent an hour reading through threads. I had no idea what kind of Hornets nest I was potentially stirring up.
Guess I'l stick with Mobil 1


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (stratclub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stratclub* »_Amsoil saves money by not actually having their oils tested and approved by the various car makers. Nowhere does their marketing hype actually say that their oil is approved by the car makers they list.









*APPLICATION
AMSOIL 100% Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:
API SM/CF
ACEA C3-04
ACEA A3/B3-04
ACEA A3/B4-04
ACEA C3 
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51 
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
DaimlerChrysler MS-10725*

If you actually believe this you have a lot to learn. 
They save money? Really? Where does that savings on not getting their oils approved benefit anyone? Does not even benefit them?!!! 
Do they make the oil less expensive for the customer due to these savings? No.
Do they put more into research and development, doubt it. Even with those savings they could not even come close to the big guys with R&D.
Sorry but Approved oils are approved oils for a reason. There are shi* load of approved VW oils to choose from. 
Why would you choose the 1 oil that is NOT?








Seems kind of dumb really. You can get plenty of 100% European oils in the US without sacrificing your motor for a non-approved rebel oil company that talks way way too much for their own good.
Pentosin and Lubro Moly are a good choice which are readily available and approved, like I said with a ton of others as well.
They say they surpass the most demanding European specifications.
Ok, well they can say anything they want but it is still not approved which if it was so damn great the manufacturers would approve it in a heartbeat, Amsoil would most likely boost their revenue by double or triple. But thats not the case. 
The reason is they cannot get approvals. Their oil is not better than any big oil companies 100% synthetic oil from Europe. No way they have the funds to make a better oil than some of the approved oils from Europe. Sorry. I would not subject my engine to it just for their fabulous claims.
I would love proof. Independent test of their oil against say lubro-moly and see what you get. Not going to happen as I am sure Amsoil would put up a fight to get that test not to get out in the open.
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
As far as mobil 1, it is a much better oil but I personally think it does now work well in the VW motors. Try Pentosin/Lubro-moly or similar made in Germany.
Little more advanced that Mobil 1 IMO.

_Modified by AZV6 at 8:58 AM 10-1-2008_

_Modified by AZV6 at 8:59 AM 10-1-2008_


_Modified by AZV6 at 9:04 AM 10-1-2008_


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## stratclub (Feb 3, 2007)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (AZV6)*

AZV6, I think you misunderstood my post. My words are the small type. *The bold type in my post is an example of Amsoils hype.*
Amsoil might even be good oil, but until it is actually aproved by VOA, it will never go into my 06 PD TDI.
I use Pentsynth TS which was listed by VOA when I bought my car.


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## stratclub (Feb 3, 2007)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (slowerthanu)*

The best way to pick oil is to look up the oil spec in your owners manual and then go to the oil manufactrers web site and look at the spec sheets for the different oils.
If the spec sheet says that the oil has been aproved by the car builder, it will be O.K. to use.
I noticed that not all Mobile 1 oils are aproved for VOA spec VW500.00 and/or VW502.00, the VOA specs for gas engine in 2006.


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (stratclub)*

Sorry about that. must have misunderstood you.








But for those who believe it that, then read my post.


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## kiddcarbuff (Dec 14, 2005)

i read that as well as im coming up on doing the first change since ive ahd my mk4 vr6. ive run amsoil in my tahoe and hondas for years along with the snowmobiles and nikes and everything else. i trust it but this is my first vw and i dont wanna phuck it up. so im gonna run the castrol or the mobil i guess un;ess someone can chime in about amsoil more


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (kiddcarbuff)*

Simply put, Amsoil is not approved for your engine. If you're out of warranty and you trust Amsoil to tell you the truth, then it probably makes no difference from a warranty perspective as if/when your engine fails, you'll have to pay for it anyway. That said, given the questionable veracity of their marketing claims, I wouldn't trust their oil in one of my engines for as far as I can throw a bottle of their oil.
Fact, there is a HUGE list of approved oils for your engine, oils that have been shown to have all of the properties that your engine requires. Why mess around with a "maybe" when you can buy the real thing for less money?
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/med...e.pdf


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## kiddcarbuff (Dec 14, 2005)

im not picky, alot of vw guys around here have said nothing but good things about amsoil. i jsut lcioked 150k ont he vr and its running so much better with the amsoil in it. i know the previous owner ran syntec in it and now its like a ngiht and day difference. i trust it 100%.


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## corrado93 (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: (kiddcarbuff)*

I think the reason why Amsoils is not approved is because they don't want to pay big money to VW to get on that approved list. But, I'm pretty sure Amsoil would out perform most, if not all those listed oils on the VW approval list.


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## kornbread (Oct 15, 2008)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (slowerthanu)*

I didn't know amsoil wasn't on the list. I've been running it for 10 years in all my cars. My vw dealer has put it in my touareg and passat 4motion wagon (just sold still miss it). Never one oil-related failure.


_Modified by kornbread at 9:12 PM 10-15-2008_


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (kornbread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kornbread* »_My vw dealer has put it in my touareg and passat 4motion wagon (just sold still miss it). Never one oil-related failure.

this is untrue unless you brought the oil to the VW dealership yourself and specifically requested it...if what you said is true, can you please scan and post the work order that shows it? the dealership has to use 502 approved oil...if they don't, they risk liability for powertrain issues
I can't go anywhere on the web to do synthetic analysis without Amsoil websites popping up uninvited...they all look about the same...and all have almost the exact same verbage and technical analysis data...just think if Amsoil hadn't gone the cheap route, played by the established rules, and paid the money to get approved...just think how much more would have been sold...just think about the implications of having the approved by Audi means...or having it on the oil filler cap (like on BMW)...just think of the problems caused by thinking (for some messed up reason) that you don't have to prove yourself
bottom line is that Amsoil is not approved by VW/Audi...I am not saying whether it is a good oil or not...I am not commenting on whether is "meets" VW specs or not...or whether it is better than other oils or not...but, the FACT is that it is NOT approved...and your warranty can be denied by VW if they see you have not used an approved oil...period...end of story


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (corrado93)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corrado93* »_I think the reason why Amsoils is not approved is because they don't want to pay big money to VW to get on that approved list. But, I'm pretty sure Amsoil would out perform most, if not all those listed oils on the VW approval list. 

Then you're one of the faithful if you believe that. The fact is, there are LOTS of smaller oil companies that are on the approved list and the cost of certification isn't all that "big". My take on it is that Amsoil is not capable of meeting the entire spectrum of tests required for certification, and as such, the Amsoil folks have decided to use deceptive advertising to sell their products instead of making sure it complies with the various standards out there and then having it certified.
Another thought; it occurs to me that if the folks at Amsoil were to have their oil certified, then the amount of profit they'd see from the resultant sales gains would more than offset the cost of the certification.


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## kornbread (Oct 15, 2008)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (pturner67)*

Yes, I did bring the oil with me to the dealer and neither myself or the dealer knew that the oil wasn't certified. Even though it has never failed me and I do think it is a good oil, I will be switching to a approved oil. (Especially, since my Touareg and Rabbit are still under warranty.) I am quite disappointed that Amsoil is not certified.
The bottle is definitely misleading. 




_Modified by kornbread at 9:11 PM 10-15-2008_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (slowerthanu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slowerthanu* »_On the Amsoil website, it claims to meet the 505.01 specs for VW, but I do not see it on the list.
Does anyone use Amsoil products in there VW?
Dan


Used it on my old TDI.
Was gonna use DEO on my Passat 2.0t, until someone pointed out a veggie oil based motor oil tailored for the Audi RS4
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...73821
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...93022
It's in the crankcase now, hopefully I'll get good results and less oil burning--- I have a hunch about NOACK volatility & oil burning


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (kornbread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kornbread* »_Yes, I did bring the oil with me to the dealer and neither myself or the dealer knew that the oil wasn't certified. Even though it has never failed me and I do think it is a good oil, I will be switching to a approved oil. (Especially, since my Touareg and Rabbit are still under warranty.) I am quite disappointed that Amsoil is not certified.
The bottle is definitely misleading. 



_Modified by kornbread at 9:11 PM 10-15-2008_

I would switch OIL asap and dealers. Any competent dealer would say hell no to your own oil and a non-approved oil. 
There is a long list of approved oils in this forum under FAQ, Pentosin High Performance 5W-40 being one that I use in all my cars.
Many other good ones like Lubro-moly, ELF oil, Castrol, and others. Stick with a european made oil in 100% synthetic if at all possible or if you just cannot get it, stick with VW 505 oil.
_Then you're one of the faithful if you believe that. The fact is, there are LOTS of smaller oil companies that are on the approved list and the cost of certification isn't all that "big". My take on it is that Amsoil is not capable of meeting the entire spectrum of tests required for certification, and as such, the Amsoil folks have decided to use deceptive advertising to sell their products instead of making sure it complies with the various standards out there and then having it certified.
Another thought; it occurs to me that if the folks at Amsoil were to have their oil certified, then the amount of profit they'd see from the resultant sales gains would more than offset the cost of the certification._
Exactly. 
Amsoil cannot be approved not for being the rebel and not paying VW to approve their oil, plain and simple it does not have the quality standards and tests needed to be approved. 
I would not trust that oil in my lawnmower.
Jason


_Modified by AZV6 at 7:55 AM 10-16-2008_


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (AZV6)*

To answer some of the questions and statements made at AMSOIL!
Yes they are not approved. But they have been tested by indipendent oil analysis labs to come up with the figures. Here is a link to answer alot of questions.
http://www.sms-performance.com....html
Now I run AMSOIL in everything I own, I trust it far more than CASTROL or Mobil 1. I have been tuning VW's for 16 years and I have not seen an oil look like AMSOIL while draining it for oil changes. 
25,000 mile service intervals. 
AMSOIL is offering a 1 year or 25,000 mile drain interval with there approved oils for the program and Synthetic filters. 
If you use the combination of the 2 and you have a failure due to the their oil not lubercating then they will fix or replace the broken part and fix the subsiquent damage. No other oil company does that! (as far as I know anyway)
Why isnt AMSOIL approved? The same reason you cant by it in Walmart or Advanced... They want to have more control over their oil. Instead of the jugernauts stores out there just to have the oil sit on the shelf, they would rather have an army of informed dealers and get the AMSOIL customer on more personal basis. And another reason is Exxonmobil, Castrol, and Shell. Everyone in the market knows how good the oil is and how they want to control their own product. So these big companies have the market cornered. Not much more room for another one. 
Another thing! AMSOIL buys the same base stock oil that Mobil buys, the biggest difference is in the synthetic package. 
Price? If you click one of the hyperlinks on that site then you will go to a page to sign up for a prefered customer program. There you will see that the discount is now 25% back from list. so you get WD rates. So basically price isnt an issue now. 
I just found this as well... So be for-warned!
According to the October 15 edition of Jobbers World Online News Brief, selected ExxonMobil synthetic products have been put on allocation effective October 1, 2008. The announcement explained, “ExxonMobil marketers (and direct served customers) were advised that allocation of Mobil 1 lubricants will take effect October 1 as a result of Hurricane Ike causing significant disruptions to supply lines to ExxonMobil Chemical’s (EMC) Beaumont, TX plant.” They went on to state, “According to marketers, the allocation is expected to last several months and impact availability of most Mobil 1 lubricants. Allocations are said to range from 15% to 100% based on lubricant type and package.” The article also implied that if you went to a local store and looked at the retail shelves at lunch time today, you might find the lubricant section slightly less stocked than normal already.

Dont fool yourself, why wouldnt you want to put AMSOIL in you car anyways? I mean would you put something in your kids body or your own if you know it wasnt the best thing for them or you. You could have prevented the an illness for only a little bit more than the other stuff? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (92vrcorrado)*

Amsoil and its dealers like to tout the four ball wear test:








But is the behavior of all of an actual engine's moving parts necessarily similar to rubbing four balls together?


_Modified by tjl at 9:02 PM 10-17-2008_


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (tjl)*

They also like to prove the point of the TBN test.








Aswell as the Pour point test.


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (92vrcorrado)*

Ahh the graphs, I am sold now.








I am not one for mobil 1 anyway, plus the test is not even done using the approved VW Mobil 1 oil 0w-40. 
Man, amsoil outperforms most oils by a HUGE margin. Seems to me with oil that is this fantastic, this company would be globally used in most manufacturers vehicles. But they cannot even get this oil approved. It is not because they do not want to pay either. 
malarkey!! I have used Pentosin for a number of years without issue as well, no fancy advertising, no fancy graphs, ball tests and so forth to lure unknowing consumers.
But it's your car and if it lasts and does well with it great. I do not think Amsoil is any better than any other synthetic oil.
Graphs and elaborate talk does not mean anything. I prefer a company that has been around for a long time, is approved by VW/AUDI, BMW, MERC and others, is European and does not have ridiculous marketing.
Some products that are along the same lines as AMSOIL are K&N, Redline & Royal Purple. Sorry too much marketing to make it believable to a consumer who understands that all it is, is marketing and nothing more.
I have done 20K mile intervals with pentosin and the same with Lubro-moly. It is common now. I use to do it with the old MOBIL 1 synthetic formula, ran a few cars over 300K miles and I am sure some of those cars may still be going. 
My suggestion is to stick with an approved oil. If you go with amsoil that is your choice. The graphs and pages and pages of claims, testimonials don't mean squat to me. I have been in the auto business for 20+ years which does not mean sh** either but I do actually work on and tune Alfa Romeo's and some VW's. I have seen what non-approved oil can do and I have seen what good European oil can do. I do not trust American made oils much as there are too many loop holes in marketing and advertising. 
The extraordinary claims made by Amsoil and the company`s supporters should be backed up by
extraordinary proof.Anecdotes are not proof.I should think that volumes of literature exists that cover controlled tests in real usage (petroleum vs Amsoil)? Or are we being subjected to the hype of multi-level marketing ? 
An oil is not superior to another oil due to it`s "properties" or a "four ball
wear test." It is superior when it can be shown to work better in the real world,in everyday use(does the product cause less wear in a large number of applications over a long period of time,for example).
Amsoil claims it works better in everyday use (less wear,longer time between changes) and I wonder where the data came from. 
It seems to me that if Amsoil has valid data demonstrating the efficacy of their product in real world applications, they would proudly point that fact out to the buying public. Since they don`t, I must surmise that it doesn`t exist. 
Anyways, I bored with this now. 








So long.

_Modified by AZV6 at 12:03 PM 10-18-2008_


_Modified by AZV6 at 1:35 PM 10-18-2008_


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (AZV6)*

http://www.amsoil.com/testimonials/409000.aspx
Proof? Here is your proof!
http://www.amsoil.com/testimon....aspx
Maybe you didnt rad this but AMSOIL uses the same base stock as Mobil, The difference is the synthetic package. Plus those are only a few examples. You must be a World Pac guy! Pentosin and Lube-Moly are one of their biggest clients. Just because its made in Europe doesnt mean its good!


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## ihasmkv (May 4, 2008)

sigh


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_http://www.amsoil.com/testimonials/409000.aspx
Proof? Here is your proof!
http://www.amsoil.com/testimon....aspx
Maybe you didnt rad this but AMSOIL uses the same base stock as Mobil, The difference is the synthetic package. Plus those are only a few examples. You must be a World Pac guy! Pentosin and Lube-Moly are one of their biggest clients. Just because its made in Europe doesnt mean its good! 

Thats your Proof???? Not proof to me. There is no proof in that testimonial. 
Of course they use the same base stock as Mobil, Amsoil most likely purchases the base stock from Mobil. BTW base stock makes up 85% of the oil, the rest is additives. So in basic terms your getting 85% Mobil base stock with 15% Amsoil additive concoction!!!!
Base stocks are all refined from the same Crude oil. Amsoil most likely does not have the ability to refine crude oil for their "own" base stocks.
All additive packages are different to some degree. Additive packages are typically not made up by the oil companies, but rather by a few companies that then sell them(hint...Mobil/Exxon, etc... Additive packages contain several different chemicals with several different purposes.
So again most likely someone else is making the additive package for amsoil, thus the other 15% not even made by them and are typically not 100% synthetic either. Most US 100% synthetic oils may have a maximum of 85% synthetic oil, but typically they run about average 60% synthetic. Hence why I choose Pentosin/or Lubro-moly. In Europe a 100% synthetic is exactly that. So in terms of being better, it is. Me being a world pac guy, if I was has nothing to do with this conversation. I am not swayed by marketing or some testimonial. After this many years working with cars That stuff is all crapola!! So back to what I was telling you. 
Some of the additive package includes:
Another component is emergency lubricants. This is typically zinc, phosphorous, and molybdenum. These chemicals are present in case your oil film completely breaks down, due to extreme temperatures or pressures. These chemicals are supposed to be a last resort defense against metal to metal contact in your engine. Oil companies are cutting back on zinc and phosphorous, as these metals are hard on your catalytic converters.
Detergents and Dispersant
Also solvents to break up deposits of tar and wax. In a premium oil, some of the base stock will be Group V diesters to help the solvent package.
The Viscosity Index Improvers are part of the additive package.
Finally, corrosion inhibitors. 
All the additive package is is an amount of each which suits the company.
So keep using it. But for those with that want a good oil and an approved oil for there VW, pick one from the list, European oils, mainly the brands I have picked above are easy to get here in the US and are truly 100% synthetic. No hype, no graphs, charts and truck driver testimonials to sway to come to their side. They don't need to. Amsoil tries way way to hard to be a player. Only ones desperate for business and to get every last consumer out there looking for the "best" motor oil make the big claims. 
Good luck.

_Modified by AZV6 at 2:05 PM 10-18-2008_


_Modified by AZV6 at 2:07 PM 10-18-2008_


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (AZV6)*

To me I find it amazing that you know so much about oil, but you really dont... Investigate more than 30min. into looking at the product at hand and youwill see that Amsoil makes all their own syn. packages. They do have 100% synthetic oils in their inventory! You need to find the proccess in AMSOIL's think and frame of mind of why they and how they make their oils. I was a devout Castrol Customer for more than 15 years. Ever since I started working and own VW's I used Castrol. Not that its a bad oil, its just not the best. I have a 1.8T and 2.9L VR6 and I have had nothing but great things with running AMSOIL! I cant argu that they are not an approved oil! But I know the oil i need to run and I do! I... Me, have complete "faith" in the AMSOIL product due to my research and people that I have talked to that have ran this oil for more than 10+ years in their vehicls. Not saying that the companies that you claim are the arent good. Just not good enough for the vehicle's that I own! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## randyvr6 (Aug 17, 1999)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_

Why isnt AMSOIL approved? The same reason you cant by it in Walmart or Advanced... They want to have more control over their oil. Instead of the jugernauts stores out there just to have the oil sit on the shelf, they would rather have an army of informed dealers and get the AMSOIL customer on more personal basis. And another reason is Exxonmobil, Castrol, and Shell. Everyone in the market knows how good the oil is and how they want to control their own product. So these big companies have the market cornered. Not much more room for another one. 


I fail to understand how not having their oil approved has anything to do with how they want to distribute or market it. Or why they somehow lose "control" by having it approved. Everything else would be the same as it is now other than the label on the back would say "VW Approved"
It may be good oil, but I am a little suspicious on why they refuse to go through the approval process. It may very well be an economic decision to not go through the expense or a philosophical decision, but until they do I plan on only using oil that is on the approved list.



_Modified by randyvr6 at 3:15 PM 10-18-2008_


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_To me I find it amazing that you know so much about oil, but you really dont... Investigate more than 30min. into looking at the product at hand and youwill see that Amsoil makes all their own syn. packages. They do have 100% synthetic oils in their inventory! You need to find the proccess in AMSOIL's think and frame of mind of why they and how they make their oils. I was a devout Castrol Customer for more than 15 years. Ever since I started working and own VW's I used Castrol. Not that its a bad oil, its just not the best. I have a 1.8T and 2.9L VR6 and I have had nothing but great things with running AMSOIL! I cant argu that they are not an approved oil! But I know the oil i need to run and I do! I... Me, have complete "faith" in the AMSOIL product due to my research and people that I have talked to that have ran this oil for more than 10+ years in their vehicls. Not saying that the companies that you claim are the arent good. Just not good enough for the vehicle's that I own! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Do me a favor and lets not assume you know me at all. So I will not comment on that 30 minute comment and so forth. I am not sure your hearing me. They have 100% synthetic oil, so does mobil, valvoline, and others. Like I said the problem is they are not 100% synthetic no matter how much smoke they blow up your arse. 
I am just trying to tell you plain and simple, there is NO BEST OIL!!!!
To be honest the specific qualities of oils are essentially all the same really. They all have to meet a certain level. Some go beyond that level. I am not getting technical with this as there is no real need at this point since you have made up your mind.
Amsoil is not a bad oil, just not able to get an approval from ANY manufacturer. They claim this and that for the reasons why they are not. If you decide to believe these claims, then your a customer. Yee haa!
Castrol is not a bad oil, it is not a good oil but it does the job for the 10K mile intervals for normal to moderate, even harsh street driving. 
Castrol in Europe is a much better oil when it comes to their synthetic's. Syntec in the US is just OK but again will do just fine in doing the same thing that Amsoil does and performs just as well but again is approved. 
I will tell you this, they are approved for a reason. Not just for warranty.
Why do you think GM is going for the same thing with all their cars finally?? many reasons why but one could be that they have learned something from European manufacturers. They want that same quality oil available to all around the world. Same thing with VW. I guarantee you Amsoil will not be on that list.
Here are some reason for having such an approval:
Fuel economy, engine protection, fewer service visits, reduced maintenance costs and reduced emissions.
I am sure one or more of these reasons is why Amsoil is not an approved oil.
I also run a 2.8L VR6, with over 170K miles on it using Pentosin only and VW oil for the first 20K miles. I ran 3 GTI's with it as well. All had over 200K miles when I was done with them and none had any engine related issues, in-fact the wear on them was minimal.
The VR6 car has never needed service for anything that is lubricated with the oil. 
Word of mouth and research on the internet can really dilute the truth about oils. 
Like I said Amsoil is fine if you want to use it. It is no better than Castrol Syntec (example) IMO and syntec most likely being better and approved. So between these I pick syntec, Will protect my engine just as well for the normal everyday street car.
Anyways, I better shut up now as I don't know what I am saying here. 
I myself prefer Pentosin High, but if I had to use any of the other approved oils on the list I would not hesitate to. 



_Modified by AZV6 at 2:57 PM 10-18-2008_


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_They also like to prove the point of the TBN test.










While the higher TBN theoretically means longer lasting, plenty of other factors affect oil life. Here are the results of an oil life study comparing Mobil 1 and Amsoil in the same car:
http://neptune.spacebears.com/....html
http://neptune.spacebears.com/....html
Note that the Mobil 1 made it to 18,000 miles, while the Amsoil only made it to 14,000 miles due to thickening up from 5W-30 to something like 15W-40.


----------



## TechEd (Nov 11, 2000)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (tjl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tjl* »_Amsoil and its dealers like to tout the four ball wear test....
....But is the behavior of all of an actual engine's moving parts necessarily similar to rubbing four balls together?_Modified by tjl at 9:02 PM 10-17-2008_

No, it's not. Automotive engines are lubricated via a pressurized source to a relatively large swept/contact area, completely matched, circular bearing surfaces of extremely tight tolerances. The four ball test represents a gravity/splash oil supply to what amounts to a huge static, vertical force on an extremely small swept area. This is but one of many examples of the shady, snake oil kind of marketing deception that Amsoil uses.
I had to chuckle at the "lawn mower" comment above because essentially the closest thing the four ball test has any relevancy to is a lawnmower ...with splash lubrication and low grade bearing materials. But Jessus, the crank and con bearings in a poor lawnmower will never see the static vertical loads as suggested in the four ball test! As such, Amsoil has lost tons of credibility within the SAE circles in which I travel, not only due to their deceptive marketing practices, but because they have a blinder-on mentality and refuse to work with OEMs like any other self-respecting supplier are very eager to do nowadays.
There are three key deal breakers for me and many others, esp. engineers, on this issue. Those with a lick common sense should appreciate their worth:
1. Amsoil and similar small outfits misrepresent their products by claiming key performance outcomes that are not relevant to an automotive engine, and use deceptive language that implies an OEM performance spec is met. In principle, this is the biggest = FAIL because consumers only know what they believe.
2. Amsoil has never been run in any VWAG Konzern engine in any of their R&D and durability labs, with both the VWAG and Amsoil engineers present in the same room at the same time. The task at hand being sharing of information and ideas, and how to work together to improve Konzern engine design, durability and oil certification specifications.
All OEMs create parts and systems build, performance and durability specifications for switches, brackets, handles, control modules, trim pieces , fasteners ...heck, every single part in a car, that supports their warranty obligations. As engine oil is key to the normal, durable function of an engine and is considered an engine component, OEMs found that third party specs were not up the task.... So VW, Audi and many others chose to develop and certify component fluid specifications in conjunction with top lubeco chemists in the same warrantable performance expectation context as hard parts (taking a page out of the aircraft industry). Due to the inarguable, inherent value in this, General Motors is following suit next year, joining all the Germans and Chrysler etc. = Proven win win for the customer. 
The anecdotal endorsements and testimonials from individuals who successfully used the product for years on engines on which there is no certification requirement, who are not lubrication chemists or engine R&D engineers, are essentially worthless in light of the current intent of OEM oil certification for warranty purposes. Those who believe personal, anecdotal drivel from those who have no financial stake in the process (i.e.: warranty cost control) are missing the point entirely.
3. A freshly rebuilt Quicksilver Formula Ford engine, which I saved my dimes and pennies to buy in my first season of FF, had Amsoil in the sump. After following the recommended break in, and drain procedure, I had, only three races on the engine before it summarily blew up on me. Quicksilvers never blow up. Amsoil did not step up and buy me a new engine, despite the fact that the Quicksilver boys found several overheated and galled bearings.
This product will never come near the internals of anything I own.


----------



## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (TechEd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TechEd* »_
No, it's not. Automotive engines are lubricated via a pressurized source to a relatively large swept/contact area, completely matched, circular bearing surfaces of extremely tight tolerances. The four ball test represents a gravity/splash oil supply to what amounts to a huge static, vertical force on an extremely small swept area. This is but one of many examples of the shady, snake oil kind of marketing deception that Amsoil uses.
I had to chuckle at the "lawn mower" comment above because essentially the closest thing the four ball test has any relevancy to is a lawnmower ...with splash lubrication and low grade bearing materials. But Jessus, the crank and con bearings in a poor lawnmower will never see the static vertical loads as suggested in the four ball test! As such, Amsoil has lost tons of credibility within the SAE circles in which I travel, not only due to their deceptive marketing practices, but because they have a blinder-on mentality and refuse to work with OEMs like any other self-respecting supplier are very eager to do nowadays.
There are three key deal breakers for me and many others, esp. engineers, on this issue. Those with a lick common sense should appreciate their worth:
1. Amsoil and similar small outfits misrepresent their products by claiming key performance outcomes that are not relevant to an automotive engine, and use deceptive language that implies an OEM performance spec is met. In principle, this is the biggest = FAIL because consumers only know what they believe.
2. Amsoil has never been run in any VWAG Konzern engine in any of their R&D and durability labs, with both the VWAG and Amsoil engineers present in the same room at the same time. The task at hand being sharing of information and ideas, and how to work together to improve Konzern engine design, durability and oil certification specifications.
All OEMs create parts and systems build, performance and durability specifications for switches, brackets, handles, control modules, trim pieces , fasteners ...heck, every single part in a car, that supports their warranty obligations. As engine oil is key to the normal, durable function of an engine and is considered an engine component, OEMs found that third party specs were not up the task.... So VW, Audi and many others chose to develop and certify component fluid specifications in conjunction with top lubeco chemists in the same warrantable performance expectation context as hard parts (taking a page out of the aircraft industry). Due to the inarguable, inherent value in this, General Motors is following suit next year, joining all the Germans and Chrysler etc. = Proven win win for the customer. 
The anecdotal endorsements and testimonials from individuals who successfully used the product for years on engines on which there is no certification requirement, who are not lubrication chemists or engine R&D engineers, are essentially worthless in light of the current intent of OEM oil certification for warranty purposes. Those who believe personal, anecdotal drivel from those who have no financial stake in the process (i.e.: warranty cost control) are missing the point entirely.
3. A freshly rebuilt Quicksilver Formula Ford engine, which I saved my dimes and pennies to buy in my first season of FF, had Amsoil in the sump. After following the recommended break in, and drain procedure, I had, only three races on the engine before it summarily blew up on me. Quicksilvers never blow up. Amsoil did not step up and buy me a new engine, despite the fact that the Quicksilver boys found several overheated and galled bearings.
This product will never come near the internals of anything I own.

Thank you very much!!! 
I told you I knew something and It was not a 30 minute internet search. LOL
Amsoil was never used in any of my cars, nor my customers cars and race cars we build as well. I use to Race VW's but now race/service Alfa's and NO ONE uses Amsoil. 
You know what we use? AGIP (alfa approved), Pentosin... Actually we use a lot of VW approved oils.
During tear downs, we hardly ever see any issues with these oils.
Like I said I would not even put it in my lawnmower. Hell I would not even lubricate my door hinge with it.


----------



## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (AZV6)*

Sorry for the dry sarcasim! Those were just small examles of someones personal experiacne. 
The fact of the matter is the reason why they are not and "the list" is because of better Fuel economy, extended drain intervals, less periodic "Factory" services. The manufacture wants you to come and see them as soon as possible! 
Vw says 5,000 mile oil changes with synthetic oil. Benzwith the same oil is 10,000 miles. The basic same filtration capacities and filtration. Or for another example. Vw uses NGK plugs and they say every 40,000 miles and Benz does it every 100,000 miles. It all boils down to "money", If you changed your oil when the manufacture recommends with AMSOIL you will be wasting money, the oil still has life left. I have dont my own oil samples on my 1.8T. I have gone 21,000 miles before a oil change was due! My samples were done through Black Staone industries who Quantum Blue recommends their customers go through and the recommended AMSOIL labs. While I was also apart of the Army Oil Analysis Program, I have been around this proccess for more than 10 years and I have submitted my VW's oil to these labs and my oil life (TBN) was at a zero at 5,000 milesusing Castrol Syntec and OE filters. So I have been there and done that and this is another reason I use AMSOIL. 
Again you listed oils above arent bad oils I just choose not to use them. And again I appologize for the dry sense sarcasim for the 30min. research comment!
If may make a suggestion? Why not send in oil samples to see how serviceable you oil is during a factory recommended service interval and see what you really have? I mean arent you curious to see whats really going on in your oil?
Cherrs and Good Night!


----------



## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (92vrcorrado)*

Sorry dude, but I've got to say this, you've been drinking waaaay too much Amsoil Kool-Aid, so much in fact that it seems that "Collective" has assimilated you.
BTW, I've finally found a good use for a bottle of Amsoil 5W-30 that somebody gave me, It's great for lubricating bicycle chains.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

So... to the people that hate Amsoil with a passion, do you have proof that using Amsoil, say AFL (Euro formula) accelerates the wear than using approved 502.00 oils?


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*

No see the problem here is that nobody has proof that its doesnt work but when they have proof that it does they turn their noseup to it! Its just like my father-in-law... He is an oldschool V8 guy and swears up and down on convential oil. He also owns a 2002 M5 WITH 26,000 Miles on it. He swears by his factory approved oil too. You cant teach an old dog new tricks I guess. He still draws this conclusion after seeing my test results at 18,000 miles in my 1.8t with a TBN reading of 3. I would love to have someone show me actuall proof of AMSOIL breaking down and actually causing an engine too fail.


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## randyvr6 (Aug 17, 1999)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*

I have nothing for or against Amsoil as far as it being a good oil. I am not a "hater".
Amsoil may have no issues and could be a superior oil, but to me it as simple as the fact that any of my cars under warranty are only going to use oils on the VW approved list. 
Out of warranty, I feel no need to change what I have been using for the last several years just for the sake of changing. All my cars are operated fairly conservatively as regular drivers on the street and I am not at all worried that I will see mechanical issues caused by engine lubrication failures. I undoubtably will have a lot more other issues on a 10 yr old car with 200K than those caused by lubrication.
I have used Mobil 1 0w-40 and Castrol Syntec 5w-40 because both are readily available in my area, and I change them when recommended. 
All these people defending Amsoil, however no one on here has been able to answer the question on why Amsoil has not gone through the approval process?
Will it pass or not? Is it too expensive to go through the approvals? Has Amsoil management just been stubborn that no OE manufacturer is gong to tell them what to do?



_Modified by randyvr6 at 8:58 AM 10-19-2008_


----------



## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*

For many of us, using Amsoil comes down to two issues:
1) It isn't approved for use in VW and Audi engines (or BMW engines for that matter), and as such, there is absolutely zero proof that their oil meets all of the criteria required to properly care for your engine.
2) Buying products from companies with questionable business practices.
For my part, so much of what is in Amsoil's literature is deliberately deceptive (forgetting for a moment the outright crap found on the web sites of the Amsoil faithful), and given that I abhor companies that do that, I wouldn't use their products even if they were approved.
Regarding other noise that comes from Amsoil such as their warranty and their claims to protect engines for 25,000+ miles, sorry, several accounts of Amsoil NOT stepping up to the plate following an engine failure as well as many-many UOAs from the top shelf Amsoil oils where the results showed that the oil was completely exhausted wel before the 20,000 mile mark (and often before even half of that).
Personally I liken the followers of the Amsoil creed to the followers of Jim Jones, just too much Kool-Aid for my tastes.










_Modified by shipo at 12:05 PM 10-19-2008_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

It is too expensive too get each certification approval.
The whole development of the AFL oil was based on baselining the performance of various 505.01 oils and working with their additive supplier, Lubrizol, to develop an additive package that would emulate its performance or better.
Why I am not using VW-spec oils in my car? For the 2.0T motors, unfortunately, 502.00, 505.01 and 504 do not hold up that well for that engine. Both oils come no where close to meeting VW's OCI of 10,000 miles.
Will Amsoil be better? I dunno, but the preliminary UOA's comparing AFL to VW-spec oils are showing better results on the 2.0T motor.
I've taken the plunge on using a different oil altogether.
...and as late late, we are starting to see the long term damage of using 505.01 oils on a Pumpe-Duse TDI motor, where using the correct oil and the correct OCI, is causing excessive wear on the cams, which was the whole point of using 505.01 oil.


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*

Thank You! Alot of what you guys are missing here aswell is the filtration! I have a customer that runs the AMSOIL 5w/30 100% synthetic and the lab result a TBN rating of 7 at 6,000 miles but recommended a change of the filter! I also have another customer with 95,000 miles on his 337 and I was doing a valve cover for him and found flatened cam lobes on cylinder 4 on the intake side and also found the beginings of camlob wear on cylinder 1. He used royal purple all of its life and is religous about changing it every 3,000 miles. 
I employ you to funish me with these claims of AMSOIL not coving the 25,000 mile guarranty. But I do find it funny that someone would switch to AMSOIL after a certain milage and after 20 to 30,000 miles claim that the oil failed. Im sure they have run labs on the oil and found it hasnt failed and thus denied the claim. I have seen these cases first hand.


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*

There are many factors for cam lobe wear. One is cam shaft break in.
Usually using synthetic is not the best way to break them in and using a Moly paste on installation will also break them in. 
Spring pressure.
Retainer to seal/ valve guide boss interference
Spring coil bind
Rocker arm slot to stud interference
Camshaft end play.
Broke dowel pins/keys.
Non-approved oils.
Excessive clearance:
Excessive clearance between the shafts and the bearings will cause low oil pressure and excessive
backlash between the gears
Generally cam lobe wear is due to not using the proper approved oil for the motor.
As I have mentioned RP is not a good oil. You just proved that. Rp is not an approved oil, we all know that.
Amsoil is not an approved oil. Guess what. I can bet that there is some wear on your motor somewhere, not normal wear excessive wear. Cam lobes, excessive bearing wear, etc...
You just proved to me although not Amsoil but also another non-approved oil caused cam lobe wear.
Premature failure starts within first few minutes of operation.
How did you measure the cam lobe for wear? There are only 2 normal methods for doing this. 



_Modified by AZV6 at 3:13 PM 10-19-2008_


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (AZV6)*

AZV6 i will ahve to agree with you! I have never been a fan of RP. Now there has been 2 TDI ALH motors that I have canged an countless 2.0L motors in the MKIV chassis that I have replaceddo to lifter failure! Now the 2 TDI engines had all the service records with all the recommended services done and they all used TXT 505.01 Castrol blend in both cases. VW denied the claims by the customer when using the recommended blend! Even though one was at 110,000 miles and the other at 85,000. They were out of warranty. These guys were very punctual about the oil changes and maintenance on their vehicles. As you guessed it the lifter exploded and droped a valve cauing catistrofic failure to the engine. This could also be because a bad valve spring but we will never know now. This was one of the reasons I went looking for better oils and educated myself in how a oil is made and proccessed. The only manufacture that I have found to back their own oil was AMSOIL. And for the record there is no abnormal cam wear and to my 1.8T. I did remove my valve cover to just check on how the engine was doing on the top end. The bottom end still has the hatch marks and the piston tops still look like new (due to ACES4 a fuel additive made by Quantum Blue). I Found this out by using a bore scope from snap on. You know the one with the camera, I hooked it up to a laptop to use the monitor to see exactly whats going on. 
I have heard people tell me why they dont like AMSOIL (marketing and such) But know one has presented an actuall case of failure of lubercation. 
I realize that AMSOIL is not an approved oil! Fine! Do I actually know why AMSOIL is not an approved oil through the manufactures. I do have some guesses.
1. Extended oil change intervals ( manufactures dont want you to wait extened amounts of time to come see them. 
2 Improved fuel economy! The oil companies want you to buy as much as possible!
3. For the customers that dont use AMSOIL with recommended service intervals they would be wasting money when changing an oil that is still good!
If you really want to see what your protection is oil is giving you just take a sample and send it in. Kill your couriosity! Thats waht I did! Now I know! 
I will tell you what I will take a sample of the oil in my VR and post the results!


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## TechEd (Nov 11, 2000)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_.....But know one has presented an actuall case of failure of lubercation. 


Well, my Formula Ford engine is one ...and several of my fellow racers at the time have had similar grief. Three in particular had engine failures where UOAs showed chemistry breakdown, and on two cases the engines were on SCCA Showroom Stock cars (where no internal engine mods are allowed). 
Both in the SAE and in certain racing communities, Amsoil deservedly exists as a rogue outsider that talks Big but Doesn't Deliver.


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (TechEd)*

Well Ed I can't speak for your racing community all I can apeak for is my daily driven 242HP, heavily modded 1.8T that is redlined to 7,000rpm with now issues and has 59,000 miles on it and My daily driven 2.9L VR Corrado with 15,000 and is heavly modded N/A soon to go S/C with no oil loss and my 07 Doodge RAM 1500 4X4 Hemi. I also have have numbers of customers running the AMSOIL products that have not had an issue! 
And when I said present me with actuall evidence I was talking about a link or something like that were you can show me or other people to the failure or this product! Kinda like I have furnished you!


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## TechEd (Nov 11, 2000)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*

Explain to me what a modified 1.8T and 2.9L (soon to be S/C) VR6 and Dodge Hemi Ram have to do with the OP noticing that Amsoil does not appear on the VW 505.01 oil certification list for current VW and Audi engines? None of these units are warranted by VWAG! And also explain to me what those engines have to do with the fact that Amsoil has misrepresented themselves in regards the VW 5051.01 specification? ...which is really what the OP was concerned about for his (under mfr. warranty) 2007 GLI.
Call this persistence what it really is, and that is misguided and blind Brand Worship in the worst possible sense. I trust VWAG, BMW AG, Mercedes Benz AG and the rest who invest $millions in cooperation with the leading multinational lubecos in testing, proving and establishing unique oil performance specifications that fulfill the OEM warranty obligations. In a true engineering sense, this is the best possible form of cooperation. In this, it is not the name on the bottle that matters. If it is certified to meet the spec, then it is the spec that should be the focus, not the brand.
That Amsoil wishes to stick their heads in the sand, refuse to work with domestic and foreign OEMs and cater to brand worshipers with out of warranty, modified cars and (heaven forbid) race cars is not a problem that a new VW owner should concern himself with. There are many certified oils to choose from, ...and all of them ran successfully in VWAG test mule engines with representatives from the lubeco in the lab, and present during the post-run OA.
That someone trusts a narrow-minded, deceitful, third tier US only player like Amsoil over the proven VW and other OEM oil spec process is truly laughable. And this is even more significant when one considers that the specification R&D process involves lab and field testing that exceeds 10-fold, the worst possible driving conditions that any self-righteous US consumer can lay claim to. The long WOT times at top speed on the Autobahn, along with extreme heat in Spain and stop and go gridlock in Munich on a soccer night are walks in the park for a 502.01 Why? Because OEM engineers are tasked today, more than ever before, with specific warranty cost control mandates. It drives me and my team nuts when new maximum failure % per 100 cars are issued by the bean counters, but the gun is to our heads. Funny, the last time I looked, Amsoil had no such problem, or even cared to get involved.
The OP, just as millions of others do, should avoid all the anecdotal B.S. surrounding any engine that does not require 5051.01 certification (and especially mine, in ref my Formula Ford and other race engine failures). The factory has placed a monumental effort in establishing the certification as part of its warranty obligations. While the OP was concerned about a potential option, he is nonetheless obligated to do the same. He can be assured that there are no lineups outside VW, Audi, BMW or Mercedes dealers anywhere in the world, waiting to have engines replaced because owners followed the schedule, using an oil that met the spec. The collective careers of the lubeco chemists and OEM engine R&D engineers hang in the balance if this were not to be the case, and from my insider travels, not one has seen a pink slip yet. I can't think of anything more trustworthy than that, and anyone else who thinks otherwise is sadly, missing the common sense gene.
Life is all about choices, and I think that most here think that smart, informed choices are the best ones. And especially in the litigation-happy US, where we reserve the right to hold OEMs accountable and demand the best possible product performance and warranty coverage from them, why on earth do we choose to ignore the investment and efforts that OEMs have made in fulfilling those obligations and place trust in individual opinions and Brands that have no stake whatsoever in those obligations? Life is all about choices, and those that make stupid ones deserve what they get.


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (TechEd)*

Again Ed as I said in the post above yours was all I can speak for is my experiances with oils. *I cant speek for the oil companies and why its not approved.* I did talk to a regional manager last night ( east coast) and asked him why AMSOIL is not approved. And he told me that the other oil companies would not stand for AMSOIL to be on the list! And the manufactures will not put them there because when you use AMSOIL you motor does not wear, they only build vehicles to last but so long. Manufactures only want you to be in a car for 3 to 4 years. If the manufactures actually built a car to last 500,000 miles then they would go out of bussiness. I do have a huge amount of common sense and a mind of my own, Thank You very much! And this is why I use AMSOIL and speak very highly of it. 
If you think that the manufacture takes evry oil and tests it, and that claims they are to the spec of 505.01 and above then you sadly mistaken. There would be millions upon millions spent on this proccess. I am sorry to tell you they dont. They do have reps to go to the various dealership hwen a claim is made on there engines due to a component failure. I have seen this first hand. I have worked in a dealership and I have seen what castrol syntec can do to our 1.8T engine even when changed at the servicde intervals.
And another thingwhy is it that VAG, BMW and Benz all flip flop between Castrol and Mobil 1? I will tell you! *It all boils down to who has the deepest pockets at the time.* All of these manufactures have flip flopped between the two for years now. I have been in an Indy shop for 3 years and service all of them. They do lean towards mobil 1 more than castrol. 
*All I can tell the guy that asked the first question is, if you plan on owning your car after your warranty ends the you make the decision. Dont let a money hungry manufacturer tell you how to service your oil system when all they have at steak is selling you another car when your dies. * I am a firm believer in factory maintenance except for the recommended oils and the timing belt service intervals... WOW they really missed the mark on that one too! Infact they had to send out a srvice circular on the changing you belt at 60,000 miles instead of the before 105,000 mile intervals. But remember how much money they have spent on R&D for your car. My point is go from your own experiences and what you have seen from other peoples missfortunes and take it for what it is and make your own decision! Its your money and not mine!

_Modified by 92vrcorrado at 7:30 AM 10-20-2008_


_Modified by 92vrcorrado at 7:32 AM 10-20-2008_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_Thank You! Alot of what you guys are missing here aswell is the filtration! I have a customer that runs the AMSOIL 5w/30 100% synthetic and the lab result a TBN rating of 7 at 6,000 miles but recommended a change of the filter! I also have another customer with 95,000 miles on his 337 and I was doing a valve cover for him and found flatened cam lobes on cylinder 4 on the intake side and also found the beginings of camlob wear on cylinder 1. He used royal purple all of its life and is religous about changing it every 3,000 miles. 
I employ you to funish me with these claims of AMSOIL not coving the 25,000 mile guarranty. But I do find it funny that someone would switch to AMSOIL after a certain milage and after 20 to 30,000 miles claim that the oil failed. Im sure they have run labs on the oil and found it hasnt failed and thus denied the claim. I have seen these cases first hand. 

the 25,000 mile warranty is not universal. Certain engines designs with certain oils from Amsoil with certain filtration levels can support 25,000 mile OCI or greater.
Severe engine environments, including short interval driving, turbocharging/supercharging, etc will automatically cut the interval in half.
With the AFL, Amsoil recommends sticking to the auto manufacturer's OCI, or if you choose to exceed it, back it up with UOA's
Blanket statements for OCI does not cut it in this community


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*

I agree to point with you. But this where an oil sample comes to play. If you oil is still good then use it. I check mine every 6,000 miles and not an issue. Again the longest I have gone using this method on the 1.8T is 21,000 before an oil change!


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_I did talk to a regional manager last night ( east coast) and asked him why AMSOIL is not approved. And he told me that the other oil companies would not stand for AMSOIL to be on the list! And the manufactures will not put them there because when you use AMSOIL you motor does not wear, they only build vehicles to last but so long. Manufactures only want you to be in a car for 3 to 4 years. If the manufactures actually built a car to last 500,000 miles then they would go out of bussiness.

If you or he actually believes that, I don't know what else you believe.
Car companies know that most people don't keep their cars that long, but that the occasional 500,000+ mile car makes for good publicity (consider Volvo and Irv Gordon). Indeed, with anything close to proper maintenance, the oil lubricated parts of the engine are among the least likely parts of the car to limit the car's life. Usually it is electrical parts, automatic transmissions, rust, crashes, or general neglect that kills cars. And even then, it takes a lot longer than 3 to 4 years (which on average is 36,000 to 48,000 miles) in most cases (other than crashes).


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## randyvr6 (Aug 17, 1999)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_I cant speek for the oil companies and why its not approved. I did talk to a regional manager last night ( east coast) and asked him why AMSOIL is not approved. And he told me that the other oil companies would not stand for AMSOIL to be on the list! And the manufactures will not put them there because when you use AMSOIL you motor does not wear, they only build vehicles to last but so long. Manufactures only want you to be in a car for 3 to 4 years. If the manufactures actually built a car to last 500,000 miles then they would go out of bussiness. I do have a huge amount of common sense and a mind of my own, Thank You very much! And this is why I use AMSOIL and speak very highly of it. 


If this actually was an Amsoil company representative making a statement like that than they have literally lost all crediblity with me period. 
According to that statement,there exists a huge conspiracy between the automakers and other oil companies to squash Amsoil beause it is vastly superior to any other oil ever made.








In my opinion, no one with *any* ounce of common sense could ever accept a ridiculous answer like that.











_Modified by randyvr6 at 11:37 AM 10-20-2008_


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (tjl)*

Quote, originally posted by 92vrcorrado »
I did talk to a regional manager last night ( east coast) and asked him why AMSOIL is not approved. And he told me that the other oil companies would not stand for AMSOIL to be on the list! And the manufactures will not put them there because when you use AMSOIL you motor does not wear, they only build vehicles to last but so long. Manufactures only want you to be in a car for 3 to 4 years. If the manufactures actually built a car to last 500,000 miles then they would go out of bussiness.
Dude, that is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. 
Amsoil does not make your engine wear?? Goddamn this is absolutely the breakthrough since the industrial revolution or even since the birth of mankind. 
I am sure all the major oil companies are paying big bucks to keep Amsoil from getting approved. If that was the case you would think Amosil would be all over getting approved to be the best, right??
Actually manufacturers do build cars to last when you purchase a quality car that is. I myself am not one to trade out cars in 3-4 years for a new one. I keep mine for 10 or more. I am out of warranty with my VR6 using an approved oil. I expect to get another 150-200K miles before I trade it in or sell it, hell if it is still nice I may just keep it. It has been a flawless motor using the proper oil.
Trust me car companies are not going out of business by producing quality cars that last. You have to realize that although you think people change cars every 3-4 years that actually the used car business is much higher than new. This includes certified used which is a big with VW, Volvo, BMW and others which they offer some sort of warranty under. They ain't loosing money by any means building long lasting cars. There is a huge market for used cars, the smart folks don't buy new. Smart folks also follow exactly what is said above what the engineers and lubrecos assign as maintenance and fluid approvals.
I bet you use some other than VW or approved coolant, brake fluid and tranny fluid as well.
Sorry bud but I think the more you talk the more you show your not knowledgeably at all on this subject, your just a oil brand worshiper which is based off nothing but deceptive advertising, false testimonials and tests. 
This will be a never ending battle. I have seen it before. You have been brainwashed and your mind is set in stone. 



_Modified by AZV6 at 1:54 PM 10-20-2008_


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (randyvr6)*

Never said I did!


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (AZV6)*

Again I speak from my own experiances! Nor am I an oil brand worshiper! Again I speak from my lab results my own encounters with oil lubercation! And further more I was stating what the regional manager told me! Is right? I dont think so, But I am not going to let one unknowledgable person Shizzy talking sway all the research I have done with my own vehicle. I use The VW Coolant, and thrans fluid and when I service the haldex I also use it strait from VW. I think I have said this before but I speak from my own experience's. Oh sorry I due use ATE brake fliud too. Another thing I havent really talked down about the other oils just cases that I have seen the oils not stand up to what they were intended to do! I think the other oils mentioned are good and there adavantages to using them over AMSOIL. I... Me... Myself... And I chose to use AMSOIL over the other brands. I will then again deffend myself and my experiences as such. And I am not here calling you guys tools because you believe in the VW doctrin to a Tee. Thank You this has been memrable expererience on the turdtext! 
Sorry for the spelling!


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*

Do what you do. I am not really trying to sway you. I am making sure uninformed don't follow in your footsteps. Not Following the VW doctrin to a tee makes 0 sense. Are you an engineer? NO, are you a VW/AUDI R&D specialist? No!! Do you have any technical background at all? No not really. 
Without this knowledge how do your purpose that your experience and oil lab results make you a expert on using NON-APPROVED AMSOIL in your motor, going against all that VW has set forth to make sure your motor will do what it was meant to do without failure/problems!!??
I have seen the ill effects of improper oil in many applications due to misinformed consumers using the snake oils available on the market.
I have seen transmissions fail with redline MTL, royal purple or wear greatly, I have seen seized crankshaft bearings with improper oil, using non-approved amsoil or similar. I have seen major wear with inexpensive oils going beyond their ability. But I have never seen a quality approved oil cause major wear. 
An engine wears my friend. They all do. No oil can cause an engine to not ever wear. Not possible. Proper wear is what you want. If your Oil test comes back with 0 metals in it then I will believe your super Amsoil rep. 
Using ATE brake fluid is not really on topic (just an example) but IMO that is ok since it is being used in an ATE system. I use the gold myself due to higher summer heat temps here, not for performance. Plus we get it for nothing,.Surprised you don't use redline water wetter. LOL.
Anyways, do what you will do. 
With my knowledge and not being an engineer by any means, not associated with VW R&D or in the oil industry, my experience has shown that straying from the book will lead to problems. I have seen it time and time again with customers cars.
Most of the time we are talking premature problems that would have not have happened otherwise if the consumer just read the dang manual and not some ridiculous amount of garbage from a boutique oil company claiming to be this and that and more, better than all oils in the universe oh but we are not approved for use in any manufacturers engines!! No brainier there!?
Approved oil will do just as well or better than Amsoil when following the proper maintenance schedules. 
There is no super oil out there, no the best oil out there. IMO amsoil is probably not bad but probably no better than the others. It is more expensive and most of the time has to be ordered which is useless IMO.
They are deceptive with their claims, they have no proof of what their oils can do by any reputable SAE test/research facility that I can find. 
They can't get their oils approved with ANY manufacturer. Their lies about this are so transparent. Talk about no wear oils is just nonsense.
Amsoil is not approved plain and simple. I could careless about warranty and using approved oils, that is the least of the reasons why to use an approved oil. There are several that I posted here for using such an oil.
Good luck, I am done.


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (AZV6)*

I may not be a R&D speacialist, or an engineer, But I do have that little piece of paper from VOLKSWAGEN of America that says I... ME not you are a Certified Volkswagen Technician. 
That being said "now pay attention" VW knows all to well that they fudged up with the 1.8T and this why we have the sludging issues we have today. Great R&D man! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
They did not make synthetic oils manditory until 04 in all their engines. Why because they didnt do their research! So how for example am I going to follow them to a T? Dont forget that Benz goes 10,000 miles between oil changes and they dont seem to have very many issues, with the same oil. I have been on ground zero watching what theyand you call R&D fuzz up our (the consumer) engines and not cover the claims when our vehcile run out of warranty and we follow the vw doctrin in scheduled maintenance. Oh BTW I am replacing an engine in an Audi A4 Quattro tomorrow with 150K and it sludged up and lock up the top end. And my customer asked me "We have followed the maintenance as the Audi said in the manuel? Why DID THIS HAPPEN?" And yes he uses Mobil 1. 
I never said or believe that their oil doent cause any wear, I was relaying the message!
I have seen "Approved oils" cause excessive wear, ask some of these higher milage TDI owners about the wear!
Your comments sound more like You have no knowledge in this aspect to seeing VW (which is what the first question was about) engines not last with the "approved oil" 
Now I am not saying that all vw's have issues with approved oils I am stating that I have seen more than one case! with prematture engine failure and sludging. 
Further more I am not trying to toot my own horn just trying to get you to finally understand that I do not have a hard on for AMSOIL because they say it works. I am a firm believer that it is up to the vehicle owner to make an informed decision to protect your vehicle with whatever oil you see fit. I choose AMSOIL because it works! Its worked for me and all of my customers and thats why I have more than a hand full with TDI customers with over 300,000 miles on them! Oh and chevy trucks too! It is my obligation to the customer to provide them with the experience and knowledge and recommendations on what is best for their vehicle. And I have not lost ONE customer because of AMSOIL! 
slowerthanu you have seen this discusionand you have seen why people use or dont use certian oils so make up your own mind and choose the right oil whatever that may be!
This has been a great discusion
Oh and I am done!












_Modified by 92vrcorrado at 11:47 PM 10-20-2008_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

technically the main issue with the 1.8T and various engines were the coil packs.
Only on the longitudinal mounted 1.8T's had the sludging problem, due to a reduced crankcase capacity compared to the transverse 1.8t's


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*

Not entirely tru, I have had more transverse slugde than longitudinal sludge. The engines high heat and low filtration (Strait from VW) and poor Crank case ventaltion were the cause of this... And oh yeah the oil! all of these are contrubuting factors! Plus I will say that the vehicle driven shorter distances tend to sludge up more. 


_Modified by 92vrcorrado at 5:51 AM 10-21-2008_


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_Your wrong! I have had more transverse slugde than longitudinal sludge. The engines high heat and low filtration (Strait from VW) and poor Crank case ventaltion were the cause of this... And oh yeah the oil! all of these are contrubuting factors! Plus I will say that the vehicle driven shorter distances 
tend to sludge up more. 

VW and Audi issued the sludge warranty for longitudinal 1.8T's only, which were found in B5 Passats & Audi A4's.

Yes, it is oil-related, however the affected engines that VW and Audi issued the sludge warranty remains the longitudinal 1.8T's.

Show me the sludge warranty that specified all 1.8T's across the board, preferably coming from VW and Audi letterhead


_Modified by GT17V at 12:11 AM 10-21-2008_


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *92vrcorrado* »_That being said "now pay attention" VW knows all to well that they fudged up with the 1.8T and this why we have the sludging issues we have today. Great R&D man! 
They did not make synthetic oils manditory until 04 in all their engines.

2001 owner's manuals contained the following specification: Use 5W-40 oil. If 5W-40 oil is not available, you may use 5W-30 oil. Although "synthetic" was not required, 5W-40 oil was and is only available in synthetic in the US.
VW dealers had 5W-40 synthetic oil available since 1999, VW part number ZVW-352-540S, which was Castrol Syntec 5W-40 with the VW 502.00 and 505.00 ratings. So, strictly speaking, a VW dealer should have used that 5W-40 synthetic oil, VW part number ZVW-352-540S, in all VW engines from 2001 (possibly earlier model years as well). However, the generally did not before 2004, except for TDI engines, for which a TSB in 1999 specifically told them to use 5W-40 synthetic oil and noting that it was available to them under the aforementioned VW part number.



_Modified by tjl at 9:11 PM 10-20-2008_


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (GT17V)*

*gt17v* I am sorry, I was a little crass but I fxed my last post. When I get to work sometime during the day I will go ahead and try to decide which TSB to post up... Because there are too many of them to file through. And there are lts of different TSB's tht apply to different years. 
I will say this that most of the 1.8t's with lower milage sludge were transverse because customers were only using nonsynthetic. I mean if you ask a Jetta 1.8T customer, Do you want to pay $105.00 for an oil change or $55.00 for an oil change then they will pick the cheaper! 
Again I speak from my experiences and demografic area and thes was before 04's criteria of syn's being made manditory by VAG.
*You know I dont claim nor have I ever claimed to vw a god, I only speak from the cases I have seen and my own experiences. I am not saying that what I do or how I service my vehicle is doctrin. So I dont want anyone to get offended or anything like that. Its is just my opinion and what I have seen work in my own car and my customers cars.*







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (92vrcorrado)*

This is exactly why I no longer take my wifes Jetta to the dealer. 
Far too many certified technicians don't actually have all the answers at all. 
The VW VSTT is a good program but it is what you actually take out of it that matters.
From my point of view all the students I have dealt with in this Program here at UTI in Phoenix usually do not stray from what VW has taught them. 99% of the tech's at the dealers do no stray either. Why because they understand that straying from what is required causes more problems than anything. 
1.8T oil sludge problem is not what I am even talking about. Most manufacturers are not perfect and all have had their issues. 
But to discredit them for one problem is just dumb. Obviously they have made a point to cure the problem. We know this. 
Making synthetic not manditory in their motors does not mean anything. You say they did not do their research? This coming from someone who is a VW tech now, but not a Engineer nor a R&D specialist?
The Audi you speak of is not relevant, we cannot assume anything without all the facts. We do not know the driving habits, climate, what type of Mobil 1, and so forth. 
You can assume the oil was the problem.
Nothing is perfect and neither is an oil. But your stating all these things that no one here can validate. You can try to discredit me but so far I cannot see where that is working. 
I have seen excessive wear with Approved oils as well and like I mentioned most of the time it is not the oil at all that has caused it. I gave you several reasons why.
I have seen plenty of problems with vehicles and their oils they use approved and not. But to plainly say Amsoil is the best and will not cause any of these issues is not true. You by no means have the data to back up your claims. All you have is your own opinion on the oil.
I have no real opinion on the oil except it is not approved so I would not touch it. 
You choose Amsoil based on nothing but false, deceitful claims. Thats fine. You have the choice to believe and use what you want. 
I don't care. I only care about what I use. 
Being a VW tech does not validate this issue anymore than before. 
As I said most of the technicians I have dealt with in the business have no real knowledge of this kind of information. They know how to repair VW's are updated with TSB's and so forth. Heck most of them are way younger than I am with very little experience IMO. Straight out of tech school. Very few have long time tech's.
But anyways I think I am exhausted on this and rather not write anymore on it even if I have left somethings out. I am out.
Amsoil..whatever. Not approved. 
Like I said as well, there is a reason why it is not approved. There must also be a reason why Amsoil is not sold in EUROPE? Why Europeans don't have a clue what it is? 
Most likely could not even pass European approvals and their advertising will not work there. 
You win!!








You seem to know the most, why not upgrade your Tech job to VW engineer? Make more money and make Amsoil the VW oil.
They could not turn you down for this job. Lubrication Specialist. Send in the resume, don't forget this post too. I am sure this will get you in for sure.
_Modified by AZV6 at 9:30 AM 10-21-2008_










_Modified by AZV6 at 9:44 AM 10-21-2008_


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

*Re: (AZV6)*

Then its good thing that I didnt go to UTI, and its a good thing I speak from my own experiences and I dont fall in line when some tells me something I investigate it. I NEVER said that I believe the claim that AMSOIL does not cause any wear. I have once again found that AMSOIL is a far better oil than the approved oils. I dont know if your not reading my whole post or you cant comprehend it but read them again please! I am not saying I am qualified to be an engineer by any means, I speak from what I encounter everyday real life situations. Not in a test lab. 
But whatever. I will still post up my results when I do my sample! And we will see!


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## Mr. Rictus (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Amsoil synthetic (slowerthanu)*

http://****************.com/default/zero2/lock5.gif


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