# Two new models debuting this week to compete with the Atlas



## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

There are two new cars debuting this week at LA that could compete with the Atlas. Talk about a flooded market!

*Subaru Ascent and Lexus RX350L*









As I am a subaru ambassador, I have heard that the Ascent will come only with the 2.4DIT (similar to CX9 and its 2.5T).



*Main Competitors to Atlas:*

_Lux_
Acura MDX
Audi Q7 2.0T
Buick Enclave
Volvo XC90 T5
Infiniti QX60
Lexus RX350L

_Non-Lux_
Chevy Traverse
Dodge Durango
Ford Explorer
GMC Acadia
Honda Pilot
Hyundai Santa Fe
Kia Sorento
Mazda CX-9
Mitsubishi Outlander
Nissan Pathfinder
Subaru Ascent
Toyota Highlander



*Other Cars with 3rd Row:*

_Infant Third Rows_
Nissan Rogue SV
Land Rover Discovery Sport
VW Tiguan

_Non-Lux Mid Size SUV_
Dodge Journey
Ford Flex
Toyota 4-Runner

_Non-Lux Large SUV_
Chevy Tahoe/Suburban
GMC Yukon (XL)
Nissan Armada
Toyota Sequoia
Toyota Land Cruiser

_Lux Mid Size SUV_
Land Rover Discovery
Land Rover Range Rover Sport
BMW X5
Lexus GX
Lincoln MKT

_Lux Large SUV_
Cadillac Escalade (ESV)
Infiniti QX80
Lincoln Navigator
Lexus LX
Mercedes GLS
Tesla Model X
Bentley Bentayga

_Minivans_
Kia Sedona
Toyota Sienna
Honda Odyssey
Chrysler Pacifica
Ford Transit Connect Wagon


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## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

Great list of VW Atlas competitors. I've probably test driven half of them.. the other half were either too small or too expensive to even bother testing.

Overall Im very happy with the decision to go Atlas as it felt the 'newest' of everything listed above, it truly felt like a 2018 MY vehicle while the others felt like a 2012-2016 offering. The Ford Explorer for example felt like its a 10 year old design already. In addition to delivering all of the newest technology and features.. the Atlas price and options were also very competitive bang for the buck as we were able to get a panoramic sunroof and 2nd row captain chairs for less than $40K. Finally the VW 6yr/72K B-2-B warranty sealed the deal.

Since our new Atlas is technically my wife's daily driver, I still have to purchase something in the next year or two. From the list above I would consider Explorer, Highlander, Pilot or CX-9.. but only if those vehicles were fully redesigned for a new generation. The Explorer is too old, the Highlander is too small and the 3rd row is useless, the Pilot looks like a 4door minivan and the CX-9 is just flat out cramped in every seating position. The prices for tech in those vehicles also needs to come down to a much more realistic point for me to take them seriously. Next gen safety features are standard on cars like a $20K Camry, it needs to be standard on a $30K Crossover SUV. And Toyota for example, still refuses to offer CarPlay or Android Auto on any vehicle. They are the only major manufacturer still on the sidelines. Im sorry but its silly to pay almost $40K for a new vehicle and not have features like that available.. which makes this new Lexus R350L a pass for me. Its already bad enough the Lexus infotainment system is terrible to use!


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## beastcivic (May 27, 2003)

I'm excited about the Ascent. I hope the 2.4DI motor can put out enough power and be decently efficient to make it a worth while competitor. I've had a some model of Subaru for 15 years now and really looking for a big option to replace the Outback in my household.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Subaru coming with CVT? If it does I would not let friends park in my driveway not to mention to buy it. 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Daekwan said:


> Great list of VW Atlas competitors. I've probably test driven half of them.. the other half were either too small or too expensive to even bother testing.
> 
> Overall Im very happy with the decision to go Atlas as it felt the 'newest' of everything listed above, it truly felt like a 2018 MY vehicle while the others felt like a 2012-2016 offering. The Ford Explorer for example felt like its a 10 year old design already. In addition to delivering all of the newest technology and features.. the Atlas price and options were also very competitive bang for the buck as we were able to get a panoramic sunroof and 2nd row captain chairs for less than $40K. Finally the VW 6yr/72K B-2-B warranty sealed the deal.
> 
> Since our new Atlas is technically my wife's daily driver, I still have to purchase something in the next year or two. From the list above I would consider Explorer, Highlander, Pilot or CX-9.. but only if those vehicles were fully redesigned for a new generation. The Explorer is too old, the Highlander is too small and the 3rd row is useless, the Pilot looks like a 4door minivan and the CX-9 is just flat out cramped in every seating position. The prices for tech in those vehicles also needs to come down to a much more realistic point for me to take them seriously. Next gen safety features are standard on cars like a $20K Camry, it needs to be standard on a $30K Crossover SUV. And Toyota for example, still refuses to offer CarPlay or Android Auto on any vehicle. They are the only major manufacturer still on the sidelines. Im sorry but its silly to pay almost $40K for a new vehicle and not have features like that available.. which makes this new Lexus R350L a pass for me. Its already bad enough the Lexus infotainment system is terrible to use!


Toyota will not offer carplay or android auto per my east coast rep friend becauase the auto manufacturers are required to share data with apple/google. He said Toyota is resisting this as long as possible. Seems so stupid to me. Nissan/Infiniti are just getting carplay/and auto in many models. I don't think the QX60/Path have it yet though. Only Murano/Rogue/Maxima (using a newer headunit).


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Subaru coming with CVT? If it does I would not let friends park in my driveway not to mention to buy it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't been able to confirm that it is a CVT, but based on the 2.4T in the WRX matting to the CVT, I think its a strong possibility. I hated the CVT in my H6 Outback. HATED IT!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

beastcivic said:


> I'm excited about the Ascent. I hope the 2.4DI motor can put out enough power and be decently efficient to make it a worth while competitor. I've had a some model of Subaru for 15 years now and really looking for a big option to replace the Outback in my household.


Same here. I am tempted to get one, but I don't have room for all these cars in the deck -_-

If/when i get some pre-pics from the ambassadorship, I will post here ahead of the LA debut.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> I haven't been able to confirm that it is a CVT, but based on the 2.4T in the WRX matting to the CVT, I think its a strong possibility. I hated the CVT in my H6 Outback. HATED IT!


People who invented CVT are one of reasons I support death penalty. It is crime against humanity. 


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

This is more pressure on VW to bring 2.5 VR6 TSI. 


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## rippersub (Nov 20, 2017)

edyvw said:


> People who invented CVT are one of reasons I support death penalty. It is crime against humanity.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Couldn't agree more, I've completely disregarded some great cars simply because of CVT, I even upgrade rental car options because of it. Worst thing ever.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

edyvw said:


> People who invented CVT are one of reasons I support death penalty. It is crime against humanity. ....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variomatic


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> This is more pressure on VW to bring 2.5 VR6 TSI.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh you and the 2.5t


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## sedelstein (Jul 13, 2017)

edyvw said:


> This is more pressure on VW to bring 2.5 VR6 TSI.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, VW if youre listening, give us the goddamn 2.5 VR6 TSI!!!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

VW if you're listening (you're not)- I'm good with the VR6. Sounds great!


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## tallguy09 (Nov 14, 2016)

As I am a German, only VW for me


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## bugzy (May 29, 2000)

Daekwan said:


> Great list of VW Atlas competitors. I've probably test driven half of them.. the other half were either too small or too expensive to even bother testing.
> 
> Overall Im very happy with the decision to go Atlas as it felt the 'newest' of everything listed above, it truly felt like a 2018 MY vehicle while the others felt like a 2012-2016 offering. The Ford Explorer for example felt like its a 10 year old design already. In addition to delivering all of the newest technology and features.. the Atlas price and options were also very competitive bang for the buck as we were able to get a panoramic sunroof and 2nd row captain chairs for less than $40K. Finally the VW 6yr/72K B-2-B warranty sealed the deal.
> 
> Since our new Atlas is technically my wife's daily driver, I still have to purchase something in the next year or two. From the list above I would consider Explorer, Highlander, Pilot or CX-9.. but only if those vehicles were fully redesigned for a new generation. The Explorer is too old, the Highlander is too small and the 3rd row is useless, the Pilot looks like a 4door minivan and the CX-9 is just flat out cramped in every seating position. The prices for tech in those vehicles also needs to come down to a much more realistic point for me to take them seriously. Next gen safety features are standard on cars like a $20K Camry, it needs to be standard on a $30K Crossover SUV. And Toyota for example, still refuses to offer CarPlay or Android Auto on any vehicle. They are the only major manufacturer still on the sidelines. Im sorry but its silly to pay almost $40K for a new vehicle and not have features like that available.. which makes this new Lexus R350L a pass for me. Its already bad enough the Lexus infotainment system is terrible to use!


I agree with most what daekwan said.

All the cars in the segment have 1 large flaw. Atlas's flaw is the motor is neither fuel efficient or powerful enough. CX9 flaw is the interior space/cargo isn't roomy for the size. It's nearly same length as Atlas, but has great driving dynamics and MPG. Explorer has a fun V6TT, but is a dated vehicle.

If the Atlas had couple miles MPG better or more power, it would be near perfect. I'm talking 20/27 MPG, would be killer. Or if it had 300hp+ with 18/25, I'd be fine. But no, it has poor MPG and not much power.

I purchased the Atlas, because #1, it fit people comfortably. I got our GTI and GLI for daily use. If I needed a car to replace one of those, I'd probably go CX9.


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

I would’ve given the Subaru a serious look, but don’t know if I could’ve waited another year. It seems to have all the tech goodies that the Atlas has, plus a maybe slightly more stylish interior.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

wooble said:


> I would’ve given the Subaru a serious look, but don’t know if I could’ve waited another year. It seems to have all the tech goodies that the Atlas has, plus a maybe slightly more stylish interior.


If it comes with CVT (high probability) I just cannot imagine anyone who enjoys just a bit of driving to buy it. 
As Jeremy Clarkson once said: if your heart doesn’t race every time you sit behind the wheel, you might as well take public transportation. 



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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> If it comes with CVT (high probability) I just cannot imagine anyone who enjoys just a bit of driving to buy it.
> As Jeremy Clarkson once said: if your heart doesn’t race every time you sit behind the wheel, you might as well take public transportation.
> 
> 
> ...


This car will sell out faster than the original tribeca. As an ambassador, I can tell you that the people who buy subarus could give a **** about the tranny. And everyone with an outback is dying for a tribeca replacement right now. I was in an outback so I can speak to that personally. Check the forums if you don't believe me.

It will sell. The car isn't even out and my GM friend where I bought the outback said that he is taking pre-deposits already for all order allocations. Not one will be sold off the lot.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

The spy shots for the ascent make me think that it will be a good looking vehicle. Like the idea of the Turbo flat 4, worry about the longevity of the CVT in something that large or while towing. If they can make it durable enough though I have no problem with the CVT. Does Subaru make the CVT or is it a JATCO unit?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

0macman0 said:


> The spy shots for the ascent make me think that it will be a good looking vehicle. Like the idea of the Turbo flat 4, worry about the longevity of the CVT in something that large or while towing. If they can make it durable enough though I have no problem with the CVT. Does Subaru make the CVT or is it a JATCO unit?


Subaru has never been big on towing. Their hitches have always been measly and accessories. I know the take rate has been low on the outback and forester. Would be curious to see if it is the same on the ascent. I don't see towing a boat or trailer as their push. I see "safe eyesight" family moving around town as their push. 

This is more info on the lineatronic (if its even the tranny for the ascent):

"Lineartronic is is a metal chain, pulley-based CVT, which is considered the most reliable, due to the simplicity of the pulley system and durability of the metal chain. In addition, the metal chain pulley system is generally quieter than other CVT designs. It uses a specially modified torque converter to connect the engine to the transmission. It can slip like a traditional torque converter, but remains locked under all conditions except when coasting or traveling at very low speed. The persistent lockup condition under acceleration provides the efficiency and control of a clutch while still behaving much like a traditional planetary automatic transmission. The transmission can also be manually controlled by the driver by providing the ability to select 6 different "virtual" gears, where the transmission will hold a particular ratio."

On my H6 outback, I could use the paddles to artificially shift. And the car had artificial shift points in D as well which was strange. I was used to CVTs sitting in the "sweet spot" all the time, but Subaru's drives more like a traditional auto. Still didn't like it very much.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> This car will sell out faster than the original tribeca. As an ambassador, I can tell you that the people who buy subarus could give a **** about the tranny. And everyone with an outback is dying for a tribeca replacement right now. I was in an outback so I can speak to that personally. Check the forums if you don't believe me.
> 
> It will sell. The car isn't even out and my GM friend where I bought the outback said that he is taking pre-deposits already for all order allocations. Not one will be sold off the lot.


Oh I know it will sell. Subaru started”Toyotazation” of their vehicles long time ago. They made them dumb enough to sell like chocolate. I think they are at the top in sale in CO, also first in the ditch during snow together with drivers of JEEP’s and pick-ups (nothing personal, just observation about average Subaru driver). 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Oh I know it will sell. Subaru started”Toyotazation” of their vehicles long time ago. They made them dumb enough to sell like chocolate. I think they are at the top in sale in CO, also first in the ditch during snow together with drivers of JEEP’s and pick-ups (nothing personal, just observation about average Subaru driver).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Makes sense since toyota owns part of fuji. And My outback was built on the same assembly line as the camry. Until subaru took over the plant with the 18' impreza as well.


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## Drive by (Mar 13, 2017)

Forget the 2.5 I want a plug in hybrid. I'm now leaning more to the XC90 because I've realized I need a 3rd row but it's a casual 3rd row and the XC90 is good enough. Plug in let's me drive in the HOV lanes. Now THAT has value to me!

if Atlas had a Plug in hybrid option I'd be all over that. As it stands I'll likely have to spend more with Volvo....

It's not about fuel consumption, it's about access!


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## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

ice4life said:


> This car will sell out faster than the original tribeca. As an ambassador, I can tell you that the people who buy subarus could give a **** about the tranny. And everyone with an outback is dying for a tribeca replacement right now. I was in an outback so I can speak to that personally. Check the forums if you don't believe me.
> 
> It will sell. The car isn't even out and my GM friend where I bought the outback said that he is taking pre-deposits already for all order allocations. Not one will be sold off the lot.


Thanks for saying that. Some people just dont get it. For every 'enthusiast' who is concerned about power, handling, driving experience.. there are 10 more 'typical' buyers who couldn't simply care less. The VAST majority of people purchasing an automobile just dont care what transmission, engine or wheel/tires/brake combo come on the car. They simply want something to get them from point A to point B.. has a good amount of safety and tech.. and won't spend all day in the repair shop.

3 row SUVs are popular now because people crave more space and the midsize sedan is essentially dying because its now deemed too small for many families. In the 80s and 90s the typical 2+2 family was able to get away with a 4 door sedan and roomy trunk. These days people haul alot more cargo and the accessories needed for a baby/toddler/child are much bigger. And while 2 row SUV's can still get the job done, throw in a couple of baby seats and they are maxed out for passenger space.

Hence the need for the extra row of seats AND the extra cargo room behind that 3rd row.. for the stroller thats the size of a shopping cart. Being able to fold all the seats flat and haul home ridiculously large items like flat screen TVs or furniture.. without looking like soccer mom or soccer dad only underlines the popularity of these vehicles. People who probably should be buying minivans are now buying 3row SUV's because they accomplish much of the same tasks.. while carrying a higher status symbol and looking much cooler!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Daekwan said:


> They simply want something to get them from point A to point B.. has a good amount of safety and tech.. and won't spend all day in the repair shop.


Based on my experience so far with fixes, those other people are going to avoid the atlas at all costs lol. This thing has a magnet to the shop.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Based on my experience so far with fixes, those other people are going to avoid the atlas at all costs lol. This thing has a magnet to the shop.


The danger with the first year of any new vehicle regardless of the manufacturer, you are pretty much a beta tester. However I rest easy knowing this trans engine combo are well proven, if they got some software bugs elsewhere they will iron that out.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Drive by said:


> Forget the 2.5 I want a plug in hybrid. I'm now leaning more to the XC90 because I've realized I need a 3rd row but it's a casual 3rd row and the XC90 is good enough. Plug in let's me drive in the HOV lanes. Now THAT has value to me!
> 
> if Atlas had a Plug in hybrid option I'd be all over that. As it stands I'll likely have to spend more with Volvo....
> 
> It's not about fuel consumption, it's about access!


Give me a break. A T8 plug in XC90 starts (thats right base model without anything!) at $65k. A loaded atlas is $50k. Apples and oranges. And right now the only PHEV SUV that isn't costing an arm and a leg is the Mits Outlander PHEV which is still not officially on the lots, not to mention it loses the third row. 

The X5 40e (64k) GLE550e (67k) and Cayenne S-ehyb (78k) are the alternatives and they don't even offer a third row.


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## Drive by (Mar 13, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Give me a break. A T8 plug in XC90 starts (thats right base model without anything!) at $65k. A loaded atlas is $50k. Apples and oranges. And right now the only PHEV SUV that isn't costing an arm and a leg is the Mits Outlander PHEV which is still not officially on the lots, not to mention it loses the third row.
> 
> The X5 40e (64k) GLE550e (67k) and Cayenne S-ehyb (78k) are the alternatives and they don't even offer a third row.


Raw $$ yes it's a hell of a jump. But if you factor in the stupid rates VW Canada has vs the 0.9 % buy down with offers rate Volvo Canada has the actual $$ out the door per month is a lot less. Sure it's more, but I figured I"ll save ~$150/month in fuel and give up ~$200/month in extra payment. So for $50/month I get HOV access, primo parking every where there is a charge station and a nicer interior.

I'm not saying Atlas is a bad choice at all, just that when you start looking at the details it's a lot smaller than I thought. I may yet still buy the Atlas, I really like it. But an Execline (SEL Premium) to a R-Design T8 actually isn't as bad as it looks at first glance.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Drive by said:


> Raw $$ yes it's a hell of a jump. But if you factor in the stupid rates VW Canada has vs the 0.9 % buy down with offers rate Volvo Canada has the actual $$ out the door per month is a lot less. Sure it's more, but I figured I"ll save ~$150/month in fuel and give up ~$200/month in extra payment. So for $50/month I get HOV access, primo parking every where there is a charge station and a nicer interior.
> 
> I'm not saying Atlas is a bad choice at all, just that when you start looking at the details it's a lot smaller than I thought. I may yet still buy the Atlas, I really like it. But an Execline (SEL Premium) to a R-Design T8 actually isn't as bad as it looks at first glance.


Not sure i'd say the interior is "nicer." Besides the crystal shift knob, unless you upgrade to the inscription (70k base), you're getting non perforated leather and aluminum trim. No fogs on a t8 either due to cooling system.

I see your logic, and given that it is the only plug in with a 3rd row, maybe it is worth it. But I still think we're talking apples and oranges and that your ideal situation of walking out the door for only $50 more is most likely just that. ideal.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Daekwan said:


> Thanks for saying that. Some people just dont get it. For every 'enthusiast' who is concerned about power, handling, driving experience.. there are 10 more 'typical' buyers who couldn't simply care less. The VAST majority of people purchasing an automobile just dont care what transmission, engine or wheel/tires/brake combo come on the car. They simply want something to get them from point A to point B.. has a good amount of safety and tech.. and won't spend all day in the repair shop.
> 
> 3 row SUVs are popular now because people crave more space and the midsize sedan is essentially dying because its now deemed too small for many families. In the 80s and 90s the typical 2+2 family was able to get away with a 4 door sedan and roomy trunk. These days people haul alot more cargo and the accessories needed for a baby/toddler/child are much bigger. And while 2 row SUV's can still get the job done, throw in a couple of baby seats and they are maxed out for passenger space.
> 
> Hence the need for the extra row of seats AND the extra cargo room behind that 3rd row.. for the stroller thats the size of a shopping cart. Being able to fold all the seats flat and haul home ridiculously large items like flat screen TVs or furniture.. without looking like soccer mom or soccer dad only underlines the popularity of these vehicles. People who probably should be buying minivans are now buying 3row SUV's because they accomplish much of the same tasks.. while carrying a higher status symbol and looking much cooler!


I find it interesting that people who chooses cars because they have 176 airbags always have cheapest all season tires on the car (maybe 1% doesn’t). I understand their constitutional right to be stupid, but they grossly abuse it. Whoever choose car because it can brake on its own but not checking for example braking distance 60-0 really have issues. 
Only here people pay more attention on passive safety then active safety. They worry what will happen once they get in accident, not how to prevent it. 

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## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Based on my experience so far with fixes, those other people are going to avoid the atlas at all costs lol. This thing has a magnet to the shop.


Hence the 6yr/72k warranty. VW wants customers to feel confident buying this vehicle. Trust me without that warranty.. we probably would have gone Honda Pilot.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Daekwan said:


> Hence the 6yr/72k warranty. VW wants customers to feel confident buying this vehicle. Trust me without that warranty.. we probably would have gone Honda Pilot.


Why don't you read the warranty manual. Not as bumper to bumper as it seems. Actually has a zillion limitations, and as it is trickling down the 2018 lineup, get ready for rejected warranty claims down the road becoming the norm. 

People who do their own maintenance will have a hell of a time with this warranty down the road proving they have maintained it to VWs standards. Trust me. My sister was a warranty admin for VWofA for 10 years. She was part of the 6/72 intro.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> Why don't you read the warranty manual. Not as bumper to bumper as it seems. Actually has a zillion limitations, and as it is trickling down the 2018 lineup, get ready for rejected warranty claims down the road becoming the norm.
> 
> People who do their own maintenance will have a hell of a time with this warranty down the road proving they have maintained it to VWs standards. Trust me. My sister was a warranty admin for VWofA for 10 years. She was part of the 6/72 intro.


I have owned various VW’s and each proved more reliable then Honda pPilots my in laws had/have or Mazda I owned or Nissan my wife owned. And I had VW’s pass 300k. But then I do not treat cars like an appliance. 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> I have owned various VW’s and each proved more reliable then Honda pPilots my in laws had/have or Mazda I owned or Nissan my wife owned. And I had VW’s pass 300k. But then I do not treat cars like an appliance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've had 5, and its a mixed bag. The beetle windows didn't work right for 6 months of ownership. That was a PITA.


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## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

edyvw said:


> Subaru coming with CVT? If it does I would not let friends park in my driveway not to mention to buy it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> I've had 5, and its a mixed bag. The beetle windows didn't work right for 6 months of ownership. That was a PITA.


Well, Beetle is one model I did not owned. My brother has business in Europe where he has fleet of VW’s, usually with 1.6tdi engines, and those things regularly go over 500k. They are always on the road. With CC i only had issue of trunk not being able to open using button, solved under CPO. Passat B5.5 never had single issue for 134k I kept it. Those diesels I had in Europe (Skoda) were probably of all cars I had the most reliable. 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Well, Beetle is one model I did not owned. My brother has business in Europe where he has fleet of VW’s, usually with 1.6tdi engines, and those things regularly go over 500k. They are always on the road. With CC i only had issue of trunk not being able to open using button, solved under CPO. Passat B5.5 never had single issue for 134k I kept it. Those diesels I had in Europe (Skoda) were probably of all cars I had the most reliable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah mine have not been as solid. The touareg TDI had the door handle issue, the SCR system completely replaced, and it had a complete coding failure where I lost the lights/AFS. 

The Beetle had a bucket of problems too. VW helped me out of that one into the CC.

The passat and CC were okay. But that's why I say a mixed bag.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

ice4life said:


> Yeah mine have not been as solid. The touareg TDI had the door handle issue, the SCR system completely replaced, and it had a complete coding failure where I lost the lights/AFS.
> 
> The Beetle had a bucket of problems too. VW helped me out of that one into the CC.
> 
> The passat and CC were okay. But that's why I say a mixed bag.


The US market was testing ground for SCR. NOx levels prior to Euro VI were much stricter in the US then EU, so EU cars only on few instances had SCR. Touareg never came with SCR in Europe or my X5 35d, only with DPF. 
So that is something that Europeans did not have to deal with. However, thanx to VW, diesels now anyway are falling behind in sale over there too. 



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## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Yeah mine have not been as solid. The touareg TDI had the door handle issue, the SCR system completely replaced, and it had a complete coding failure where I lost the lights/AFS.
> 
> The Beetle had a bucket of problems too. VW helped me out of that one into the CC.
> 
> The passat and CC were okay. But that's why I say a mixed bag.


One thing to remember about the Atlas is its a fairly simple vehicle by any standards. The engine & transmission are proven. And VW went pretty simple on the electronics, for example there is no air suspension or active aero parts. Outside of generic electrical gremlins and glitches.. there isnt really much to go wrong on the Atlas. Its big, its cheap and its spacious. That was the entire point of a 3 row SUV that starts at $30K.. to be the exact opposite of the 2 row Toureg that starts at $50K. One of the things that attracted me to the Atlas is how simple it is compared to the competition and more expensive VW/Audi vehicles.


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

ice4life said:


> Why don't you read the warranty manual. Not as bumper to bumper as it seems. Actually has a zillion limitations, and as it is trickling down the 2018 lineup, get ready for rejected warranty claims down the road becoming the norm.
> 
> People who do their own maintenance will have a hell of a time with this warranty down the road proving they have maintained it to VWs standards. Trust me. My sister was a warranty admin for VWofA for 10 years. She was part of the 6/72 intro.


*A zillion limitations...really!!*


"_Why don't you read the warranty manual_: 
*Sure. The entire owners warranty manual is 47 pages. What is not covered is on pages 4 and 5. Here is what's not covered:

Tires
Maintenance services and adjusments
Damage or malfunction due to misuse, negligence, alteration accident or fire
Accessories, spare parts and modifications
Noise, vibration, cosmetic conditions and deterioration
Aesthetics and design 
Damage due to lack of maintenance
Damage caused by the environment.
Glass
Odometer tampering*

"_get ready for rejected warranty claims down the road becoming the norm. _" 
*Based on facts and an not an opinion I trust.
*
"_People who do their own maintenance will have a hell of a time with this warranty down the road proving they have maintained it to VWs standards._" *People who do their own maintenance, and I have for over 20 years on my VWs, don't have warranty issues as long as you keep receipts. There is no mention of a warranty not valid due maintenance not performed by a VW dealer.*


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

edyvw said:


> The US market was testing ground for SCR. NOx levels prior to Euro VI were much stricter in the US then EU, so EU cars only on few instances had SCR. Touareg never came with SCR in Europe or my X5 35d, only with DPF.
> So that is something that Europeans did not have to deal with. However, thanx to VW, diesels now anyway are falling behind in sale over there too.
> 
> 
> ...


There is difference between simple and outdated. When you are outdated (engine) competition tends to kill you. And yes VR6 is proven, in good but in bad too. 


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> *A zillion limitations...really!!*
> 
> 
> "_Why don't you read the warranty manual_:
> ...


Sometimes you do not need to keep receipts because law is protecting you as long as you use approved parts or fluids (oil for example). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

edyvw said:


> Sometimes you do not need to keep receipts because law is protecting you as long as you use approved parts or fluids (oil for example).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:thumbup:


Previous vehicles: 1981 Zastava 101/ 1988 Opel Ascona Irmscher 2.0i/ 1990 BMW 318i/ 1991 BMW 520i/ 1996 Opel Vectra 2.0 16V/1996 Alfa Romeao 146 1.6 Boxer/ 1998 Mazda Millenia 2.5 V6/1999 Lancia Lybra 2.4jtd/ 2002 Peugeot 307 2.0i A/ 2005 Passat B5.5 1.8T/ 2007 Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi/ 2009 BMW 525d/ 2010 VW CC 2.0T/ 2011 Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi/ 2012 Peugeot 508 2.2hdi GT


In Colorado Springs??


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

Daekwan said:


> One thing to remember about the Atlas is its a fairly simple vehicle by any standards. The engine & transmission are proven. And VW went pretty simple on the electronics, for example there is no air suspension or active aero parts. Outside of generic electrical gremlins and glitches.. there isnt really much to go wrong on the Atlas. Its big, its cheap and its spacious. That was the entire point of a 3 row SUV that starts at $30K.. to be the exact opposite of the 2 row Toureg that starts at $50K. One of the things that attracted me to the Atlas is how simple it is compared to the competition and more expensive VW/Audi vehicles.


I will agree that the engine and transmission are proven, Toyota / Lexus has been using this transmission for about 4 years IRC, and VW has had about 12 years to work out potential issues with the 3.6 VR6.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> Previous vehicles: 1981 Zastava 101/ 1988 Opel Ascona Irmscher 2.0i/ 1990 BMW 318i/ 1991 BMW 520i/ 1996 Opel Vectra 2.0 16V/1996 Alfa Romeao 146 1.6 Boxer/ 1998 Mazda Millenia 2.5 V6/1999 Lancia Lybra 2.4jtd/ 2002 Peugeot 307 2.0i A/ 2005 Passat B5.5 1.8T/ 2007 Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi/ 2009 BMW 525d/ 2010 VW CC 2.0T/ 2011 Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi/ 2012 Peugeot 508 2.2hdi GT
> 
> 
> In Colorado Springs??


No, Bosnia and U.S. combined. I have still some stuff there so always keep one car. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> I will agree that the engine and transmission are proven, Toyota / Lexus has been using this transmission for about 4 years IRC, and VW has had about 12 years to work out potential issues with the 3.6 VR6.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They never worked out fuel dilution. 


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> They never worked out fuel dilution.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All DI engines suffer from some increased oil dilution compared to their port injected brethren, regardless of manufacturer. As long as the oil is changed regularly with quality oil, I don’t consider that a big deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> All DI engines suffer from some increased oil dilution compared to their port injected brethren, regardless of manufacturer. As long as the oil is changed regularly with quality oil, I don’t consider that a big deal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, but FSI and TFSI earned nickname: fuel dilution monsters for a reason. Even TSI are not as good as some other. Regular oil change? 10k? Good luck with U.S. sulfur levels in gas. I did analysis of oils in my 2.0T (which dilutes less then VR6) and 7.5k OCI, NOT 10k OCI is wishful thinking. 


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Yeah, but FSI and TFSI earned nickname: fuel dilution monsters for a reason. Even TSI are not as good as some other. Regular oil change? 10k? Good luck with U.S. sulfur levels in gas. I did analysis of oils in my 2.0T (which dilutes less then VR6) and 7.5k OCI, NOT 10k OCI is wishful thinking.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably because they were some of the first mainstream DI vehicles, TSI engines suffer to the same degree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> Probably because they were some of the first mainstream DI vehicles, TSI engines suffer to the same degree.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was my point, VW left VR6 where it was 12 years ago. 
I am wondering about wear metals of these grocery getting Atlases with 10k OCI and oxidation in the engine. 
TSI second generation is better, third much better. You would think that companies would learn on VW , but Honda has huge dilution issues with new 1.5T and FORD with Ecoboost and other DI engines. 


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Updated Sorento too.


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## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

Still looks too small.

If its not atleast 90cu/ft with a real 3rd row (Adult can fit back there). I wont even bother clicking on a link about it.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Daekwan said:


> Still looks too small.
> 
> If its not atleast 90cu/ft with a real 3rd row (Adult can fit back there). I wont even bother clicking on a link about it.


Good thing there's no link!

No but jokes aside, the Sorento is a smaller offering. Just trying to keep open minded shoppers in the loop as this thread is about new models to compete!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

ASCENT!

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/29/2019-subaru-ascent-deep-dive-15-fast-facts/#slide-7165686

https://www.netcarshow.com/subaru/2019-ascent/


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## beastcivic (May 27, 2003)

ice4life said:


> ASCENT!
> 
> https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/29/2019-subaru-ascent-deep-dive-15-fast-facts/#slide-7165686


I really like the new Subaru. Might be in my garage in 2020 (let the first year bugs get worked out). It'll be interesting to see what the fuel economy is on it, and what the pricing will be for a limited trim (not a fan of cloth seats).


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

ice4life said:


> ASCENT!
> 
> https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/29/2019-subaru-ascent-deep-dive-15-fast-facts/#slide-7165686


The cargo capacity figures seem strange. 72.6 cubic feet max with all seats folded? Despite Subaru seeming to tout the Ascent’s adult-capable third row—it even has 3 belts instead of 2—that’s quite a bit less than the Atlas’s 96.8 cubic feet. Where’d all that space go? It looks closer to the Atlas in its boxiness than it is to the CX-9 in its curviness, and it’s not that much shorter, so I can’t figure out the reason for the difference. Also, the top end trim seems to lack some of the tech that the top end Atlas has, such as a 360 camera and park assist. But the 500-mile range with 19.3 gallon fuel tank seems to beat the Atlas handily. Before seeing the production version and learning about the specifics, I did feel like maybe I should have waited. But now, I don’t have any regrets about not holding out for the Subaru.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

wooble said:


> The cargo capacity figures seem strange. 72.6 cubic feet max with all seats folded? Despite Subaru seeming to tout the Ascent’s adult-capable third row—it even has 3 belts instead of 2—that’s quite a bit less than the Atlas’s 96.8 cubic feet. Where’d all that space go? It looks closer to the Atlas in its boxiness than it is to the CX-9 in its curviness, and it’s not that much shorter, so I can’t figure out the reason for the difference. Also, the top end trim seems to lack some of the tech that the top end Atlas has, such as a 360 camera and park assist. But the 500-mile range with 19.3 gallon fuel tank seems to beat the Atlas handily. Before seeing the production version and learning about the specifics, I did feel like maybe I should have waited. But now, I don’t have any regrets about not holding out for the Subaru.


It has a 180 cam and it has the digital rearview mirror, wifi, 8 usbs, and AFS. So has more tech in my opinion.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

*Ascent Trims:*


*Base *
•	EyeSight with automatic emergency braking and lane keep assist (STANDARD)
•	6.5-inch multimedia touchscreen
•	Android Auto and Apple CarPlay
•	four USB ports
•	three zone automatic climate control
•	raised roof rails
•	First, second, and third row floor mats
•	Paddle Shifters
•	18-inch aluminum-alloy wheels with silver finish
•	E Park brake Auto Vehicle Hold 
•	Convex cabin view mirror


*Premium*
•	Blind-Spot Detection with Rear Cross-Traffic Alert
•	towing capability up to 5,000 lbs
•	power driver seat
•	unique spill-repellent cloth upholstery
•	8.0-inch multimedia touchscreen
•	Wi-Fi connectivity
•	body-color side mirrors
•	privacy glass
•	leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift lever handle
•	rear seat climate controls
•	18-inch aluminum-alloy wheels in gray with machine finish
•	heated exterior mirrors, front seats and windshield wiper de-icer
*Premium Options*
•	20-inch dark gray with machine finish wheels 
•	panoramic moonroof 
•	power rear gate with height memory
•	Keyless Access with Push-Button Start 
•	8.0-inch Multimedia Navigation system 


*Limited *
•	leather-trimmed upholstery
•	LED Steering Responsive Headlights
•	High Beam Assist
•	LED fog lights
•	second-row retractable sunshades
• heated second row seats
•	20-inch aluminum-alloy wheels in dark gray with machine finish 
•	Lower door cladding with chrome accents 
•	side mirrors with integrated turn signals
•	driver's seat adjustable thigh support
•	Reverse Automatic Braking with park sensors
•	power rear gate with height memory
•	Keyless Access with Push-Button Start 
•	Two additional USB ports (6 total)
*Limited Options*
•	panoramic moonroof 
•	8.0-inch Multimedia Navigation system 
•	tonneau cover
•	Harman Kardon® premium audio system with 14 speakers


*Touring *
•	satin silver side mirrors with integrated turn signals
•	chrome door handles
•	chrome front under guard and rear bumper protector
•	Java Brown leather seats and upholstery
•	upgraded leather steering wheel 
•	woodgrain-pattern matte finish accent trim
•	ventilated driver and front passenger seats 
•	two additional UBS ports (8 total)
•	120-volt power outlet 
•	SUBARU STARLINK 8.0-inch Multimedia Navigation system
•	Harman Kardon® premium audio system with 14 speakers
•	panoramic power moonroof 
•	rain-sensing wipers
•	tonneau cover
•	third row sunshades
•	second row bucket seats
•	Smart Rear-View Mirror 
•	180-degree front-view camera


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

ice4life said:


> It has a 180 cam and it has the digital rearview mirror, wifi, 8 usbs, and AFS. So has more tech in my opinion.


What’s AFS? Agreed about the 8 USB ports (including ports for the third row). Wish we had that, but 4 isn’t a deal breaker for me personally. What does the WiFi do? I haven’t seen anything that says it can act as a hotspot, so could it be some other kind of WiFi connectivity like what we have in the Atlas?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

wooble said:


> What’s AFS? Agreed about the 8 USB ports (including ports for the third row). Wish we had that, but 4 isn’t a deal breaker for me personally. What does the WiFi do? I haven’t seen anything that says it can act as a hotspot, so could it be some other kind of WiFi connectivity like what we have in the Atlas?


The wifi is just as it sounds. Full wifi like in a chevy traverse/gmc acadia. It will be subscription based, and i have heard they are looking to tie it to starlink (similar to carnet) which is far simpler than maintaining a separate verizon/att data plan.

I do wish we had more usbs as my tablets use the two in the rear. 

AFS is adaptive front lighting system. The ascent has steerable led headlights as well as led fogs.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Here's where the Atlas bests the Subaru:

VR6 engine option
Foot Tailgate
Drive Mode Selector
Terrain Selector
Power fold Mirrors
Park Assistant and Front PDC
side cameras
auto start/stop
LED front turn signals
cornering fogs
LED license plate lights
digital cockpit


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Here's where the Atlas bests the Subaru:
> 
> VR6 engine option
> Foot Tailgate
> ...


Sounds about right. The Ascent also looks like it might have more air vents for the third row, and also has sun shades for the third row windows. I guess in many cases it’ll come down to what features people value more. I still don’t get the max cargo numbers. The Ascent doesn’t look THAT much smaller than the Atlas, but maybe I’m missing something. Maybe the seats don’t fold as tightly away.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

wooble said:


> Sounds about right. The Ascent also looks like it might have more air vents for the third row, and also has sun shades for the third row windows. I guess in many cases it’ll come down to what features people value more. I still don’t get the max cargo numbers. The Ascent doesn’t look THAT much smaller than the Atlas, but maybe I’m missing something. Maybe the seats don’t fold as tightly away.


No third row shades. I do like the vents in the ceiling though..


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

ice4life said:


> No third row shades. I do like the vents in the ceiling though..


I saw it on the Subaru site, for the top level trim: it said “second and third row sun shades” or something like that.

Also looks from that picture that it has at least one ISOFIX point in the third row for a car seat. We only get top tether in the third row. But if you have 4 or more kids, you’re probably in the market for something even bigger than either of these models.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

wooble said:


> I saw it on the Subaru site, for the top level trim: it said “second and third row sun shades” or something like that.


Weird- I just saw it too. I wonder if it does have them..

Brochure says it too-

https://www.subaru.com/guides/ascent/#p=20


And the brochure is different from what the press release stated. Maybe they messed it up haha.

This car shares a lot with the highlander. Just look at the pano roof, rear console and third row. Parts bin central.


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## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

wooble said:


> The cargo capacity figures seem strange. 72.6 cubic feet max with all seats folded? Despite Subaru seeming to tout the Ascent’s adult-capable third row—it even has 3 belts instead of 2—that’s quite a bit less than the Atlas’s 96.8 cubic feet. Where’d all that space go? It looks closer to the Atlas in its boxiness than it is to the CX-9 in its curviness, and it’s not that much shorter, so I can’t figure out the reason for the difference. Also, the top end trim seems to lack some of the tech that the top end Atlas has, such as a 360 camera and park assist. But the 500-mile range with 19.3 gallon fuel tank seems to beat the Atlas handily. Before seeing the production version and learning about the specifics, I did feel like maybe I should have waited. But now, I don’t have any regrets about not holding out for the Subaru.


Once I read the specs.. I had zero regrets about getting the Atlas now instead of waiting on the Subaru.

72cu/ft with all seats folded (Atlas has 97cu/ft)
3rd row seems like it will be cramped (I'm 6'3" and can fit in the 3rd row of Atlas)
CVT.. (Atlas has 8spd Aisin)
2nd Row Captain's Chairs only available on most expensive models (Atlas has it as a $625 option on cheaper models)
Delivery starts Summer 2018 (Wife is pregnant now and due in Feb)

The new Ascent sounds more like a new Tiguan competitor, than it does an Atlas competitor. Outside of Subaru reliability.. there's is pretty much nothing more attractive about this vehicle compared to the AtlasIMO. If both when we were shopping I would still greatly prefer the Atlas.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Daekwan said:


> 3rd row seems like it will be cramped - You cannot say this for sure yet.
> 
> 2nd Row Captain's Chairs only available on most expensive models (Atlas has it as a $625 option on cheaper models)- Per autoblog:"— The Premium and Limited trim levels will provide customers with a free-of-charge choice of second-row bench (eight-passenger) and second-row captain's chairs (seven-passenger) configurations. This is unique in the industry, giving customers the option to outfit their Ascent in a way that best suits their family. Subaru expects the captain's chairs to be a bit more popular."
> 
> ...


.


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

ice4life said:


> .


Still being able to seat 7 even with captains chairs (assuming for now that the Ascent third row is in fact comfortable) is pretty unique, isn’t it? I don’t think any other models in this class have three seat belts in the third row. Need to move up to Tahoe/Expedition/Land Cruiser territory to get that.

For me, having the ability to seat 7 specifically and maximum flexibility in general was important. I didn’t think it was worth getting a three row model just for one extra seat. But I had a hard time finding an SEL Premium model without the captains chairs. The vast majority of the inventory models around me had the captains chairs. Are the captains chairs really that popular?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

wooble said:


> Still being able to seat 7 even with captains chairs (assuming for now that the Ascent third row is in fact comfortable) is pretty unique, isn’t it? I don’t think any other models in this class have three seat belts in the third row. Need to move up to Tahoe/Expedition/Land Cruiser territory to get that.
> 
> For me, having the ability to seat 7 specifically and maximum flexibility in general was important. I didn’t think it was worth getting a three row model just for one extra seat. But I had a hard time finding an SEL Premium model without the captains chairs. The vast majority of the inventory models around me had the captains chairs. Are the captains chairs really that popular?



Buick Enclave
Chevy Traverse
Honda Pilot
Subaru Ascent
Toyota Highlander

All 5 of these models offer buckets with a 3 passenger third row in this segment. So not too unique.


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Buick Enclave
> Chevy Traverse
> Honda Pilot
> Subaru Ascent
> ...


Ah, okay. I stand corrected. But then that makes the Atlas with second row buckets even more odd in my mind, yet that is what the factory seems to be churning out the most.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

wooble said:


> Ah, okay. I stand corrected. But then that makes the Atlas with second row buckets even more odd in my mind, yet that is what the factory seems to be churning out the most.


Buckets are ideal because people can get to the third row more easily. But I prefer the bench for the dogs. Right now with the buckets, I need to concoct a crazy contraption to keep them in the cargo area! They prefer the heated buckets!


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Buckets are ideal because people can get to the third row more easily. But I prefer the bench for the dogs. Right now with the buckets, I need to concoct a crazy contraption to keep them in the cargo area! They prefer the heated buckets!


Ha. They need to add capability to lock out those heater buttons for the second row. Keep curious hands/paws from breaking anything.


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## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

wooble said:


> Ah, okay. I stand corrected. But then that makes the Atlas with second row buckets even more odd in my mind, yet that is what the factory seems to be churning out the most.


The only part that matters is who can actually fit back there. So many of these vehicles look great on paper until you take them for a test drive. The 3rd row in the Highlander for example is pretty much useless, forget sitting back there.. I couldnt even GET back there. 

I've sat in the 3rd row of both the Pilot and Explorer.. and while there was decent legroom it would still be a cramped place to be for two people. I cant imagine 3 people back there for any amount of time. VW was alot more "honest" about their 3rd row. Not only does it fit two people back there more comfortably than anything else in this large crossover class.. but two full sized adults can sit back there. Not just 8 year olds. Hence the reason why its only 2 row bench seat, instead of a 3 row. I have no doubt they could have thrown in a 3rd seat belt and exaggerated the 3rd row seating capacity just like the other guys but they didn't.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Daekwan said:


> The only part that matters is who can actually fit back there. So many of these vehicles look great on paper until you take them for a test drive. The 3rd row in the Highlander for example is pretty much useless, forget sitting back there.. I couldnt even GET back there.
> 
> I've sat in the 3rd row of both the Pilot and Explorer.. and while there was decent legroom it would still be a cramped place to be for two people. I cant imagine 3 people back there for any amount of time. VW was alot more "honest" about their 3rd row. Not only does it fit two people back there more comfortably than anything else in this large crossover class.. but two full sized adults can sit back there. Not just 8 year olds. Hence the reason why its only 2 row bench seat, instead of a 3 row. I have no doubt they could have thrown in a 3rd seat belt and exaggerated the 3rd row seating capacity just like the other guys but they didn't.


I fit in the back of the highlander and I am 6 feet tall. Either way, it is very rare that adults are in the third row anyway in my case. I guess if you were carpooling to work every day with 5 other adults I could see your concern, but at the end of the day, I don't feel like the Atlas is that much better than the competition. It was definitely not something i noticed.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

RX350L/RX450HL are here:


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

wooble said:


> Ha. They need to add capability to lock out those heater buttons for the second row. Keep curious hands/paws from breaking anything.


roof roof. i think the front screen has a rear lockout option, but i don't know if it includes the heated rear seat buttons, or just the climate in the rear.


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## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

ice4life said:


> roof roof. i think the front screen has a rear lockout option, but i don't know if it includes the heated rear seat buttons, or just the climate in the rear.


Yeah the infotainment climate control menu has the ability to lock out the second row climate controls.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

0macman0 said:


> Yeah the infotainment climate control menu has the ability to lock out the second row climate controls.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Right, by hitting the menu button in the front controls. But does that also lock out the seat heater buttons?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

wooble said:


> Right, by hitting the menu button in the front controls. But does that also lock out the seat heater buttons?


yeah hence my posted question two posts ago guys..


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## bugzy (May 29, 2000)

Just watched the KBB video about the Subbie Ascent, the 2nd and 3rd row legroom looks poor compared to the Atlas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q_fMkn2A9M


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## wooble (Oct 18, 2017)

ice4life said:


> yeah hence my posted question two posts ago guys..


We all just love hearing (seeing) ourselves talk (type)!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

bugzy said:


> Just watched the KBB video about the Subbie Ascent, the 2nd and 3rd row legroom looks poor compared to the Atlas.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q_fMkn2A9M


Give me a break.. My favorite line: "I guess I could move the second row seat up, but that probably would take room away from them" Ugh duh if the second row seat is all the way back good luck fitting your legs in any of these third rows. Same on the atlas..


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