# ABA Turbo will not boost past 15psi ... is it the turbo?



## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

I'm trying to determine whether or not it's just the turbo I'm using that is causing me to not be able to spool over 15 psi.
The turbo is an older t3/t04b .63/.60 AR that was from an ATP corrado vr6 turbo kit -- it seems to spool up quite slow, then hit boost, but it stays pegged at 15 psi no matter what I do. I'm running a tial 38mm external gate with big red and small green spring -- should be good for ~20psi, but even with turbosmart MBC set at max boost setting, it pegs at 15 psi and stays there. Sucks because when the boost comes on it feels really strong until it just sticks @ 15. The only thing I have yet to try is to run the wastegate w/o any boost controller. 
My theory is just that the 2.0 ABA can not spool this thing up any harder than it is, and that I should just get a smaller, more efficient, newer turbo. 
If I need to replace the turbo I'd like to be able to keep my current downpipe flange (ford 5-bolt style), waterlines, and current size piping. 
What would you all suggest?



_Modified by illi at 9:41 AM 9-15-2009_


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## nofear0788 (Mar 2, 2007)

try running directly off the spring, this will determine if your boost controller is the culprit. Just run a boost line to the side port on the wastegate and leave the top port open


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## sxracer001 (Jun 27, 2005)

*FV-QR*

pull the reference line from the wastegate alltogether, take it for a spin and see if it boosts past 15psi. dont over boost tho, theres nothing stopping it.


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: (nofear0788)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nofear0788* »_try running directly off the spring, this will determine if your boost controller is the culprit. Just run a boost line to the side port on the wastegate and leave the top port open

x2
I don't recommend the other answer above... you're just asking for trouble doing that.


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## sxracer001 (Jun 27, 2005)

*FV-QR*

lolz no balls no glory. its only a test, if hes got half a brain hell know when to stop


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (sxracer001)*

well I tried both to no avail... 
I'm thinking either the crossflow head isn't efficient enough to get this thing spinning past 15, or maybe the tial wastegate valve seal is leaky? 
I'm thinking I want to change up to a T3T4 50 trim


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## pele (Oct 19, 2000)

dont know the cause but bump for you so maybe someone can provide some info


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## kompressorgolf (Dec 6, 2005)

Pull a vacuum on the top port of the WG, if it holds pressure above 15 psi, keep looking if the pressure bleeds down, you have a leaking WG diaphram.


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Check for shaft play and pull the compressor cover and exhaust housing and inspect for damage


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)*

update: 
removed that turbo and installed a precision t3/t4 50 trim. thing spools up nice and good, made over 15 psi easily. problem solved. 
now onto ignition timing -- where should be @ around 16-18psi?


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## bharry07 (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (sxracer001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sxracer001* »_pull the reference line from the wastegate alltogether, take it for a spin and see if it boosts past 15psi. dont over boost tho, theres nothing stopping it. 

I been driving mine like that for over a month haha. Just dont stomp it, it will 
make plenty of boost quicky


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

What gas do you run? I'd say somewhere in the 15-20* range for timing. Gotta go to the dyno to get it just right.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (sp_golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sp_golf* »_What gas do you run? I'd say somewhere in the 15-20* range for timing. Gotta go to the dyno to get it just right.

That will depend CR.... You'll be able to run more timing than 20* with 93 oct. w/ the 50trim... I did for yrs. 22* @ 20psi..... but every motor is different, start low.


_Modified by GTijoejoe at 10:46 PM 9-21-2009_


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

I've got the C2 headgasket spacer so about 9:1 comp... 93 oct


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

The car stumbles a bit up top and then when you shift it is still "stumbly" for a moment.... AFR is somewhere between 11.2 - 10.6 or so up top full boost (its hard to watch everything at once and i havent had my laptop with me to log a run on the highway yet)
GTIjoejoe -- will you be @ H2O?


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

9:1 you may wanna be in the high teens.... but like I said every car is going to be different. 
I will unfortunately not be going to H20 this yr..... it will be the 2nd one I missed since 2001. 
What software are you using? some SEM?
I doubt your theory with the 60trim, an ABA will be able to boost that sucker over 20psi by 5k.... I'm curious to understand your management, because A/F and timing play a HUGE role in spool, how do you think I got my 50trim .48 to make 20psi by 3.6K??? No chip software I have ever seen has matched my original torque curve (even with the same popular turbo), it almost matched low end torque compared to a BBM charger (2k+), and than exceeded it greatly.
My 57trim .63 will get 20psi by 4.4k.....
If you are using a tunable management I can give you some tips to start out.


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_9:1 you may wanna be in the high teens.... but like I said every car is going to be different. 
I will unfortunately not be going to H20 this yr..... it will be the 2nd one I missed since 2001. 
What software are you using? some SEM?
I doubt your theory with the 60trim, an ABA will be able to boost that sucker over 20psi by 5k.... I'm curious to understand your management, because A/F and timing play a HUGE role in spool, how do you think I got my 50trim .48 to make 20psi by 3.6K??? No chip software I have ever seen has matched my original torque curve (even with the same popular turbo), it almost matched low end torque compared to a BBM charger (2k+), and than exceeded it greatly.
My 57trim .63 will get 20psi by 4.4k.....
If you are using a tunable management I can give you some tips to start out.

Thank you for your reply GTIjoejoe
I have switched to a T3/T4 50 trim... and I am running on 034EFI Stage IIC with a coil per cylinder ignition setup. Would still like to see it spool a bit faster


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

What size exh housing are you running on the 50trim??
When do you reach full boost? (what is full boost?)


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

.48 exh housing
i will log a 2nd/3rd pull at lunch today since i have the car today and send it to anyone that would like to look at it


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

GTIjoejoe and anyone else I logged two short pulls on my lunch break if you would like to take a look at them
one is 2nd gear the second is 3rd gear


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

im trying to make a graph of this in excel but its a PITA... so here's basically what i logged for 3rd gear run:
RPM / BOOST(PSI) / TIMING*
2600 / 0 / 18.25
2800 / 0 / 18.75
3000 / 0 / 19.25
3200 / 1.2 / 19.5
3400 / 2.6 / 18.25
3600 / 3.6 / 17.75
3800 / 4.9 / 17.25
4000 / 6.4 / 16
4200 / 7.7 / 14.75
4400 / 9.5 / 12.25
4600 / 11.1 / 11.25
4800 / 13.3 / 10.25
5000 / 13.9 / 10.5
5200 / 15 / 10
5400 / 15.8 / 11
5600 / 15.9 / 13.5
5700 / 18.33 / 11.5


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

theres a LOT more data than that, but thats a basic overall trend... now ill do the 2nd gear to see if its much diff...


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

2nd gear
RPM / BOOST(PSI) / TIMING*
3000 / 0.5 / 15
3200 / 1 / 19
3400 / 1.6 / 20 
3600 / 2 / 19
3800 / 3 / 19.25
4000 / 3.5 / 19.5
4200 / 4.6 / 19
4400 / 5.7 / 18.5
4600 / 6.5 / 17.5
4800 / 8.7 / 14.25
5000 / 9.4 / 13.5
5200 / 11.7 / 13.25
5400 / 12.6 / 13.25
The car falls flat on its face somewhere in here:
RPM MAP TIMING BOOST(PSI)
5149	170.5	12.5	10.2251085
5343	180.7	13.25	11.7044859
5508	188.5	14.25	12.8357745
5787	194.7	17.25	13.7350039
5997	204.2	18.5	15.1128554
6164	205.9	19.5	15.3594183
5897	205.9	15.75	15.3594183
5865	209.9	15.25	15.9395663
5875	194.5	17.5	13.7059965
5927	184.5	19.25	12.2556265
5948	190.2	18.75	13.0823374

Hopefully this stuff makes perfect sense to one of you guys!


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

I would say, best case is a 3rd gear start at 2000rpm and go til 4.5-5grand....
You want to see the entire spool characteristic.... a 2nd gear pull is much shorter, plus the loading is less....
Even 4th gear pull is good, but odds are you'll be going purrrrdy fast around 5k.

FYI: my 50trim/.48 would start making boost @ ~2200 3rd gear


_Modified by GTijoejoe at 10:56 AM 10-6-2009_


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

GTIjoejoe, I emailed you the logs of 2nd and 3rd. You're right. I'd have liked to do a fourth gear pull and provide that information as well -- but on my lunch break yesterday I didn't have the time to find a road where I could go that fast .








I can get one to you ASAP -- but check out that 3rd gear log and let me know what you think


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

For starters please email me your ign tables (screen shots).... your ignition is about half of what it should be, so its clear to me why you could not spool the 60trim... of course you are also using a tubular mani... which have been known to increase spool on non twinscroll manifolds, in general... but I am willing to bet you will be able to reach 20psi @ 4k
Secondly, A/F is extremely important to understand as the manifold pressure starts to climb out of vacuum and into boost, could you log this manually and input some values into the excel logs??? like every 250, 500, and 1000rpms intervals???? Anything over like 4K is not really important, its good to have decent resolution of A/F for the low end rpms....
And also as I stated, try to start consistant logs of 2000rpms 3rd gear pulls, this will allow you to compare better from pull to pull... 
With more timing and less fuel I think we can get this sorted out







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

Joe -- I emailed some screenshots to your gmail address. Haven't had time yet to go and log some more runs w. A/F values, hopefully tommorow during lunch I can take the car out . (If the weather doesn't suck)


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

some pics for additional content/views etc
























and a more recent one from h2o...


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

Like Joe says..more timing....and your old turbo was just shot..as its what I'm running now..
Full boost 25 psi before 3500 rpm...and it needs a rebuild








tou can try my 034 file if you like...what are you running?
1C or 2C??


_Modified by Salsa GTI at 9:40 PM 10-7-2009_


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Salsa GTI)*

salsa, im running IIc and would surely try your file... ill IM you my email address


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

IM sent


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Salsa GTI)*

Salsa are you sure its not 25psi before 4500rpm? I'm judging by your torque spike... which is a very nice curve http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

i seriously envy that


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

Justin, I sent you starting Ign map values via email http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

you may have a boost leak somewhere.
i know that you will never see the actual psi your WG spring is rated at.
for example:
you run a ~20 WG spring, you will spike at 20psi but may hold at ~18 or ~19psi.
i dont think losing 5psi is correct. even if a front mount is ran
i heard a while ago some guy was having problems with slow spooling and not holding boost where it was supposed to. come to find out his turbo exhaust side was cracked. hope you find out what the problem is http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

Joe, thanks for the email. I input the ignition values, and went for a ride... 
I *think* the car was spooling better with the new values, and overall the ignition definitely felt stronger...it was a little happier to rev and even sounded different up in the higher RPM range.
To be honest I didn't have a lot of time over the weekend, and I had meant to log a few pulls, but unfortunately my laptop battery died once I finally got out to the highway (where I was before I got on the highway the road was completely torn up) 
Hopefully I can find some more time later in the week to get some logs including my A/F. I am pretty sure that I am going far too rich under high boost now. (~10.5:1)


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## Sf01JeTTurbo (Jul 2, 2006)

im stuck at 20psi on my 50 trim, and im pretty sure you have the same problem as me, i ordered a new wastegate spring (12psi) but dont have the tools w me to get the last bolt off, i didnt want to strip it so i still have the spring in a box.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_you may have a boost leak somewhere.


This is a good point, I am assuming we would be past that, or any possibility of exh. leaks as well.....

The ign. values are just a start, its nothing magic nor my exact values. Our tables arn't even setup to the same scale, so my ign vs rpm tables are at different increments.. You'll have to monitor your ign curves to understand if your getting the timing your expecting and adjust the tables from there. 
But of course you'll need to adjust your timing according to fuel.
Judging by your fuel map, I would say you basically adjusted cruising A/F's, idle, and max boost loosely. I would also say your injector scaler is too large. 750cc injectors i'm at 11, and on 300cc I was at 19








Either way it works. 
In my map I shoot for 13:5 A/F as I start getting out of vac and into boost. 
Low 13's as I build 1~3psi
High 12's to 12.5 A/F 5~10psi
12.5-12: to 15psi and than keep it there mostly
Aim to do the same and your spool should improve and adjust timing again...
Get some logs up soon if you can...


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

I will get logs up as soon as I get a chance... I'm going to record the plotter and my A/F logger as a video screen capture, that way I can go back and interpolate the A/F into the 034 excel output file... 
Thank you guys again for all of your help. I'd be lost trying to do this stuff on my own


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
Judging by your fuel map, I would say you basically adjusted cruising A/F's, idle, and max boost loosely. I would also say your injector scaler is too large. 750cc injectors i'm at 11, and on 300cc I was at 19








Either way it works. 

What fuel pressure? I'm at 3bar...


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

300's I was on 4bar, now back on 3bar with the 750's.

I was judging by your fuel map at low RPM and MAP, you had values in the 0.7x's.....seemed like you were taking a lot of fuel out for idle...


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

ah yes, when i was down at h2o, i noticed i was idling at ~12:1 so i took those two cells down to bring me closer to about 14:1... 
i do think the scaler is set a bit high, im going to try bringing it from 19-->18-->17 to see where im at (carefully monitoring/driving of course)


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

When you engine temps are up warmed up, set all those lower values to 1.00 in the fuel map (the 9 cells in the corner 3x3), and make your 'injector idle adj' to 0.00 
See where your A/F is at, if you have to go lower than -0.300 on your injector idle adjust (thats my preference, usually it's +/- 0.500), you should decrease your 'main injector adj'....19 -> 18, than set the idle adjust back to 0.00 and see where you're at again.


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## illi (Mar 25, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (GTijoejoe)*

perfect. that's what i'll do. hopefully this weekend. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pileofredparts (Mar 20, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (illi)*

just found this thread
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif help Justin


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: ABA Turbo will not boost past 15psi ... is it the turbo? (illi)*

Don't know if its been suggested, but check your DV. If you can put a beefier spring in, do it.


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