# Question on G12 Coolant



## glock005 (May 28, 2006)

For the new (purple?) G12 coolant for the 2.5L engine, is there any non-OEM brands out there i.e. at an Autozone or Pepboys, that's compatible, or better?
Also, is Distilled water neccessary for the coolant/water mixture, or is regular water out of the faucet alright? I get conflicting advice on this.


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## VolksRacer2 (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (glock005)*

I don't know about the aftermarket G12, but the water situation is a bit of a hot point for some people. Distilled water is the best thing to use because it has no impurities that may cause corossion or sludging in the cooling system. However, most people I know (myself included) usually use tap water because it's convenient and cheap. I've never had a water related problem with the cooling system in any car but, if you happen to live somewhere with lots of minerals in the water, it IS a possibility. 
Besides a gallon of distilled water is only like a buck or something at Safeway. (Maybe I'll have to get a couple of gallons to keep around myself!







)


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (glock005)*

I've read a couple places you can safely use DexCool... orange color... coolant. Just do not use green coolant.
I'd much rather use G12 but I don't want to carry a gallon of the stuff for top-ups on road trips and DexCool is available at most every gas station and auto parts store.


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*

i always use the pink stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (mujjuman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mujjuman* »_i always use the pink stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

But pink is so fruity!


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## davela72 (Jun 7, 2000)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (@[email protected])*

The key thing to remember is to NEVER mix anything with the G12 besides water. I've heard of cases where it can gel up if mixed with other types of antifreeze. As far as the aftermarket goes, I'm pretty sure the Pentosin(sp?) is the same stuff as the G12.
http://germanautoparts.com/che...sin#2


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## @[email protected] (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (davela72)*

Whats the advantages of G12 Coolant? I work in the machining industry and eventhough the coolant we use to run our machines serve a slightly diff purpose, I know how important choosing the right kind is. What does this offer to me that the standard VW coolant doesn't?


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## davela72 (Jun 7, 2000)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (@[email protected])*

If you're referring to what I posted, then nothing. It's basically the same thing that's at the dealer, IIRC the OP wanted to know if you could get it aftermarket.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (@[email protected])*

I don't imagine it is the coolant, or more precisely the anti-freeze, that is important about G12. It's the anti-corrosion package in the antifreeze that sets G12 apart from others.
I understand G12 to use an organic acid anti-corrosive formulation that does not deplete over time as does high silicate formulations most commonly associated with Prestone green, or the high phosphate and nitrate formulations used by Japanese companies.
Organic formulations last for a very long time.... you should never need to change it if you maintain the system well, using only G12 in proper ratio to top off with. Certainly 5 years is doable and absolutely don't be suckered, by the dealer or anyone else, into more frequent than the service manual states.
To keep the long change interval you should never mix organic formulation antifreezes with anything else, especially high silicate formulations.


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## pressed (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*

I've been wondering myself about this G12 vs G12 plus vs GM Dex-Cool extended life. As far as I can tell G12 plus is just a different color than pentosin (G12), though, there may be a small chemical difference.
Anyway, as for Dex-Cool extended life "Dex-Cool is vastly superior to conventional coolants, which use silicates, phosphates, borates, nitrites, nitrates, and amine additives to eliminate corrosion... corrosion inhibitor technology in Dex-Cool is based on the use of two organic acids." And on and on... Here's the link if you want to see it for yourself. http://www.theherd.com/articles/dex_cool.html
Since I've used Dex-Cool EL my engine has been running quite a bit cooler (about 20-30 degrees) than it was w/ G12. I'm not defending or attacking anyones position on which coolant to use. This is simple informative information. I myself am about to change back to G12 to play it safe because I think she's running WAY too cool and the weather isn't even cold here yet!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by pressed at 8:06 AM 1-31-2007_


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## whatsyourbeef (Jan 2, 2007)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (davela72)*

I made the mistake of topping off my coolant with generic orange coolant from a auto store chain in an '01 golf. It messed up the cooling system so badly that everything had to be replaced:water pump to radiator, engine flushed several times. The mix darn near solidified! stick with the right stuff, it is far cheaper!


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (whatsyourbeef)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whatsyourbeef* »_I made the mistake of topping off my coolant with generic orange coolant from a auto store chain in an '01 golf. It messed up the cooling system so badly that everything had to be replaced:water pump to radiator, engine flushed several times. The mix darn near solidified! stick with the right stuff, it is far cheaper!
 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PrivateTucker (Jul 5, 2006)

Honestly, I'd stay away from Dex-cool. I own a GM truck, and read horror stories about dex-cool sludging up, and I even received a letter asking if I want to join the class-action lawsuit for it since the engine in my truck was effected. Hence why I use regular green stuff in her now.
I'd use Pentosin. Most German auto companies use it, incl VW and BMW. Plus, I use it in my computer. Couldn't be happier with the results.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: (PrivateTucker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PrivateTucker* »_Honestly, I'd stay away from Dex-cool. I own a GM truck, and read horror stories about dex-cool sludging up

It wasn't the Dexcool antifreeze... it was system design! Many people blamed the antifreeze, but it was proven not to be the causal factor. This is one of those urban myth things that never seems to go away.















As I recall it the problem GM had with system design: If a cooling system isn't maintained (level kept up) sludge will form caused by rusting of cast-iron block and heads. A couple things were going on in some GM systems: coolant systems were poorly designed, with air pockets above the level of antifreeze, and the radiator caps were defective so levels could drop without drawing from the overflow tanks. That allowed corrosion (rusting) with the cast iron... and sludge formed blocking radiator and heater cores!
First thing to understand is all anti-freezes are the same: they are some type of glycol. The difference is the anti-corrosive package. Dexcool is an OAT (organic acid technology) anti-corrosive and, from what I've read, G12/G12+ also uses OAT anti-corrosive. G12 MAY be a hybrid -- OAT in combination with something else. I don't know what and no-one has definitively said what!
Having said all that: I would suggest only using Dexcool for "top-ups" because it is widely available. If draining and flushing refill using G12/G12+ but shouldn't have to do that very often (5 years or so) as the OAT anti-corrosive is VERY long lived, which the green stuff is not. 
Speaking of green stuff.... one must NEVER EVER EVER put ANY green antifreeze of ANY formulation in a VW... especially our newer ones with G12 or G12+! The ULTRA bad thing about green (silicate) antifreezes is if the amount of the silicate in solution gets too high, it will fall out forming a gel-like sludge







which clogs cores! 
People have a bad habit of topping up with uncut antifreeze: you can get to that saturation point very quickly in any OAT system (G12 or Dexcool).


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## pressed (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (BuddyWh)*

The Dexcool EL I'm currently running is green and is silicate free. An exception to the rule I guess.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: (pressed)*

Dexcool or "Dexcool compatible" should be an orangish color. I know there are low silicate or silicate free that are green but low / free silicate doesn't mean OAT anti-corrosive. It may be a high phospate or nitrate formulation like Japanese auto companies use.
If it's not an OAT formulation it isn't extended drain so one still should drain/refill after 2 years, max (or add an anti-corrosive package supplement).


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (BuddyWh)*

just be safe and use what VW says to use.... G12. its not like its THAT expensive.


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## pressed (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

Just a little update since changing back to G12: I flushed the system thoroughly and added my mix of 50% distilled water and 50% G12. The temp now sticks at a constant 190 whether the heater is on or not. (w/ dexcool the temp would drop considerably when the heater was on). I have to say I liked it better when it ran cooler, but would rather play it safe and keep the G12. Most likely I'll be picking up a 160 degree thermostat.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: (mujjuman)*

Except what do you do when you're low on coolant and there's no VW dealership about?


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: (pressed)*

Must have been something else going on... maybe an incorrect mix ratio... all coolants are made from the same stuff: propylene glycol. The only difference is the anti-corrosive package which is very small percentage of volume and has no effect on cooling efficiency. 
Besides, operating temp is determined by the thermostat, as you are suspecting.
If using G12 makes you feel better, then by all means do so. It is your car and since the stuff you had was green I seriously doubt it was Dexcool anyway so you are much better off getting it out!


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## silverA4quattro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: (BuddyWh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BuddyWh* »_Except what do you do when you're low on coolant and there's no VW dealership about? 

Roadside assistance. Or find an Audi dealer.
If the car is low on coolant, something else is wrong, the car should not be consuming coolant.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: (silverA4quattro)*

Or put some 50/50 Dexcool in and not worry about it... which is the best I could hope for from road side assistance.
Audi???? maybe you don't understand... there are a lot of places out west where VW/Audi dealers are few and far between... and NOBODY carries G12!


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## RP-1 (Dec 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (VolksRacer2)*

VR2, I killed a SAAB 9/5 with tap H2O. The inside of the H2O pump looked like something off the NAT GEO channel when I took it off. Didn't know about the corrosion issue associated with tap until I bought my CBR and read the book. Distilled ONLY @ $0.68/gal.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (RP-1)*

Was this JUST water? were you not using a coolant/antifreeze too?
The problem with using tap water isn't that it's corrosive... corrosion will occur with distilled water if there isn't an anti-corrosive additive in the mix. The problem is it can have a heavy dose of minerals... "hard water"... that deposit on parts, including radiator cores, plugging them up. I think most people have used "soft" tap water without problems, including myself for many years. Your's is the first case I recall reading of... if you have hard water where you live you should definitely use distilled.
Some manufacturers (Ford is one) have warned of using certain antifreezes because of a property called cavitation, an effect on water pumps that cause the metal of blades to erode away. These mfr's depend on silicates used in high-silicate formulations to deposit on the blades protecting them. 
Actually, what you describe kind of sounds like that.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*

Would you drink your tap water? Then it's fine to top up your coolant with. I wouldn't do a full fill with a 50/50 mix of it though, but don't be afraid to top up in a pinch. I bet you can count the number of dealerships with distilled water in stock on 2 hands.
G12+ is backwards compatible with G12 and G11. 
G12+ (nor any G coolant for that matter) is NOT compatible with Dex-Cool. It WILL gel up. Best case scenario you only clog your heater core. It only gets worse from there. 
Why would you want your car to run cooler? It is designed to run optimally at 190. Running cooler will just use more gas, cause higher emissions, and probably more that I can't prove. It is designed to run best at 190, and personally, I wouldn't screw with it.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (veedubtek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_...G12+ (nor any G coolant for that matter) is NOT compatible with Dex-Cool. It WILL gel up. Best case scenario you only clog your heater core. It only gets worse from there.... 

You state this so positively... do you have any data to back it up?
I've read that G12+ uses OAT based anti-corrosive chemistry... which is exactly the same as DexCool. Do you have anything literature that describes what it is and states otherwise?


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BuddyWh* »_You state this so positively... do you have any data to back it up?
I've read that G12+ uses OAT based anti-corrosive chemistry... which is exactly the same as DexCool. Do you have anything literature that describes what it is and states otherwise? 

Unfortunately, I don't. I'd like to think if I was so inclined I could find the info if I so choose, but frankly, I don't care. I work on these things day in and day out. I know what works, I know what doesn't. I may not always know why, but bottom line, I don't get paid to know why. I get paid to fix them, and that I do. I can't tell you why platinums misfire in 2.0L engines either, but they do, and I fix at least one a week putting correct spark plugs in. Maybe I'll start looking some of this stuff up when I retire, because I would like to know...I just don't have the time right now.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (veedubtek)*

More rumors... 
Have you ever seen a system with gelled coolant? if so... do you KNOW what the coolant or coolant "blend" was? No speculation, only confirmed...
If you have a preference... fine... state it as such. We can all live with that. I just want a little proof...


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BuddyWh* »_More rumors... 
Have you ever seen a system with gelled coolant? if so... do you KNOW what the coolant or coolant "blend" was? No speculation, only confirmed...
If you have a preference... fine... state it as such. We can all live with that. I just want a little proof...

I never post rumors or speculation unless I specifically state it as such. I told you already, I've seen this happen _plenty_ of times. More than I even care to count. 
What really puzzles me is why you would even chance such a thing, even if there was only an inkling of a chance it could hurt. Personally, I could care less what you do, it's your car and yours to do with as you please. But don't cry warranty when your heater output sucks and then come on here and badmouth the "stealership" because they won't pay for your screwup. Not directing that at you in particular, but I see it happen all the time.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (veedubtek)*

OK OK... just wanted to know if you knew anything substantial about G12+ ... 
For what it's worth... I do know more than a little about what's taking place, how to keep my system properly maintained and I think I can make a very informed decision for myself. You don't know... I might just know a lot more than yourself... and I can not believe that there are any deep dark mysterious new laws of physics and chemistry that are totally unique to VW cooling systems.
If you've seen systems that are gelled up... how do you KNOW, FOR A FACT it was Dexcool that was the fault? do you know what the gelling is? I don't think so... if you did you'd realize Dexcool couldn't be the cause of it, if it's ONLY G12+ and Dexcool in the system and the system is properly maintained. 
They are BOTH long-life glycol antifreezes with OAT anti corrosive! The thing is... G12+ has something else in it (it's a hybrid) and I would like to know what... I don't think it uses phosphate/nitrate chemistry because that is frowned on in the EU. I think maybe it's a silicate chemistry... which suggests, should the owner just keep dumping undilute G12+ (or worse Prestone cause it's so readily available) in a leaky system the silicates will reach saturation eventually and... gell happens!
What it sounds to me like... and maybe you aren't intending it... is the usual dealership FUD message... you have to use OUR PRODUCT or YOU WILL VOID the warranty. Well... PROVE IT... not just opinion!

_Modified by BuddyWh at 4:09 PM 3-27-2007_


_Modified by BuddyWh at 4:13 PM 3-27-2007_


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## pressed (Jul 16, 2005)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*

I was more happy w/ the dexcool el than I am now w/ the g12. As long as you thoroughly flush the system before you add a different type of coolant you should be fine. I wouldn't risk mixing any two types of coolant, to be on the safe side. If you need to top it off at some random time H2O or preferably distilled H2O will work fine for you untill you can get it to somewhere that sells your specific type of coolant.
A while back I had mixed my G12 w/ the dexcool. Nothing negative happened that I could see. Though, I did flush my system and refill using the Dexcool EL.


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (BuddyWh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BuddyWh* »_Or put some 50/50 Dexcool in and not worry about it... which is the best I could hope for from road side assistance.

fine man, do whatever you want with your car.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (pressed)*

G12+ is a very good long-life glycol antifreeze with an organic acid (OAT) anti-corrosive so my expectation is to never change it out for so long as I own my Rabbit... which I hope to be over 10 yrs, upwards of 150K miles. My preference is to use a 50/50 mix of G12+ and that's what I have at the house for top-up to preserve a long-life, never flushed fill.
I have NEVER seen a shop (and that includes dealers) do even a half-ass job of completely flushing a system. Not saying there are none, just that I've yet to see one. 
I'm already carrying 2 qts of VW 502 oil (while Mobil1 is widely available, 0w-40 VW502 is not) I don't want to carry around a bottle of every other proprietary-blend fluid VW thinks I need (my dealer's service writer even tries to scare me into using VW washer fluid) for trips.
If I can put widely available 50/50 Dexcool in then I will do so knowing it also uses the same OAT anti-corrosive as G12+ and won't shorten the long-life fill I'm trying to preserve.
That's a great benefit since then I will not have to take a chance with some half-ass attempt by a service dep't., and pay dearly for it, to thoroughly flush the system to get out a high-silicate formulation (really, truely bad) or a weak mix of possibly hard tap water I had to put in on a trip.
So that's why it's important to me to be able to use Dexcool... and I'm increasingly convinced it is perfectly compatible. I'd just really like to see something more on G12+... a tech sheet, even a complete MSDS, would be great, but they seem to be pretty darn scarce .


_Modified by BuddyWh at 7:01 AM 4-1-2007_


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BuddyWh* »_
I have NEVER seen a shop (and that includes dealers) do even a half-ass job of completely flushing a system. Not saying there are none, just that I've yet to see one. 



Keep pumping dexcool in and I'm sure that statement will change one day


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (veedubtek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedubtek* »_Keep pumping dexcool in and I'm sure that statement will change one day









Not very likely... at least for that reason.
And so what if I do? at least I avoid the *certainty* of having to if I put in plain water or high-silicate green or blue/green antifreeze!








_Modified by BuddyWh at 8:37 AM 4-1-2007_


_Modified by BuddyWh at 8:40 AM 4-1-2007_


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## jeffyscott (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*

_G12+ is a very good long-life glycol antifreeze...my expectation is to never change it out for so long as I own my Rabbit... which I hope to be over 10 yrs, upwards of 150K miles. _
Found this thread in a search for coolant information, just did 20K maintenance and was looking ahead to see what additional stuff is included at the higher mileage intervals, and noticed that there is no recomendation to change it in the manual. So apparently that is for real and we will never need to do a change. 
_I don't want to carry around a bottle of every other proprietary-blend fluid VW thinks I need _
Leaving out the washer fluid, the only fluids in the car are oil, coolant, and brake fluid. We have one bottle of oil with probably 1/2 quart left, have not thought about carrying around coolant as have not seen any loss and would not expect to. The brake fluid is just DOT 4, so that should not be an issue.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (jeffyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeffyscott* »_Leaving out the washer fluid, the only fluids in the car are oil, coolant, and brake fluid. We have one bottle of oil with probably 1/2 quart left, have not thought about carrying around coolant as have not seen any loss and would not expect to. The brake fluid is just DOT 4, so that should not be an issue.

Over time, the antifreeze level will go down and require topping. It's inevitable... and my experience is it always seems to happen on a trip (some kinda Murphy's law corollary I imagine). The problem is if the G12+ gets contaminated with a high silicate antifreeze you'll have to change in two years. 
Since Dexcool uses the same organic acid anti-corrosive as G12+ it won't contaminate it. Dexcool-compatible antifreezes are widely available, G12+ is not. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## yettitheman (Jun 27, 2005)

Probably said before, I think the reason VW went with G12:
Very compatible with the various materials in the cooling system (alloys and plastics mainly) and very long life (depending on your specific definition).
Now the stuff I've been running in my 8v Cabby is G05 I think (the gold Mercedes coolant). It seems to soak the heat in the fluid very well, and seems very stable thus far.
As for the water issue: just cough up the 3 or 5 dollars for some distilled water and mix however much you need. If you use tap water (or any other water that has crap in it), you can seriously introduce some nasty things in your system. On engines with Cast Iron, it will turn your coolant Chevy Orange: not a very pretty sight. I'm sure the aluminum heads/blocks on newer motors today don't rust like that, but it can oxidize the surface and still mess the transfer of thermal energy to the coolant up. 
Now, will everyone's water experience differ? Probably. It's much safer to get the distilled that has NOTHING in it to screw it up, then tap water.
Obviously, in an emergency, water is water. Just flush her out with lot's of distilled


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## jeffyscott (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*

Until I find that some coolant actually needs to be added, I think my plan will be to just add distilled water, if a need to add should occur and I can not get G12. Once I do find that there is a need to add, then I'll pick up some G12, mix it to 50%, and keep it in the trunk.
Before I decide for sure to go with that plan, I am going to check the capacity of the cooling system and figure out what the impact of adding up to a gallon of distilled water would be on the mix %.
BTW, earlier you had posted "Certainly 5 years is doable and absolutely don't be suckered, by the dealer or anyone else, into more frequent than the service manual states.". But the manual does not specify any change of coolant at all, just like it does not specify any change of automatic transmission fluid.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (jeffyscott)*

Sounds like you have a plan... and I have mine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And as for me... I just use tap water. I don't think the water is of great concern unless it's quite hard, as it tends to be in Europe. I've used hose water in all my auto radiators since.... forever. Everybody I know use it and never any problems, so I just don't see an issue. (and I also used 30% anti-freeze when I lived in el Paso). 
The only problems I've ever had is using high silicate antifreezes in Japanese cars: bad mojo unless you enjoy changing water pumps.
I also keep something in mind: this is just a car, not an airplane or spacecraft where flight safety is an issue and designs are highly stressed, that I'll keep for only 10 years or 130-150K miles. Real easily done now-a-days, especially easy if this VW is as over-engineered as everyone says. I just don't see why I should need to give it such kid-glove care. 
But then... maybe VW's are just poorly over-engineered PoS. In which case I'll gladly dump it early and go back to Honda.


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## jeffyscott (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*

Yeah, I don't really think water is going to be an issue, but since distilled is only ~$1 for a gallon...I figure why not.
This is our first VW and I am being more careful (paranoid







) regarding things like this. Some of what I have read leads me to believe that some of VWs poor reliability record has been due to people not being careful...not saying what you are planning is in that category, sounds like you know what you are doing on the coolant. But I bet there are some people who will just dump green coolant in or won't use synthetic oil and then will complain about VWs reliability.
Now I just need to find the coolant capacity somewhere. Can't believe that is not in the owners manual where they list specs/capacities...great to know more important things like it holds 3 liters of washer fluid though







.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (jeffyscott)*

8.9 liters


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (jeffyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeffyscott* »_... This is our first VW and I am being more careful (paranoid







) regarding things like this. Some of what I have read leads me to believe that some of VWs poor reliability record has been due to people not being careful...not saying what you are planning is in that category, sounds like you know what you are doing on the coolant. But I bet there are some people who will just dump green coolant in or won't use synthetic oil and then will complain about VWs reliability...

My outlook is a little different, I guess. I tend to think VW's are basicaly designed ok... they just had some quality problems. The design problems I've read of seem typical of any manufacturer... even Honda... and their approach to dealer/customer relations sounds horrific. 
And so, with this in mind, I will treat this car like I have everyone of my previous cars that I got 130-150K of good driving out of. But I will follow their recommendation on oil even though I seriously doubt there'd be any problems if I went to petroleum oil @ 3k mil changes just 'cause I love 10K change intervals! I wish VW would offer extended interval service plans like they do in UK where they can run 20K miles or more.
If I'm wrong and this turns out to be a temperamental little princess then I'll just dump it and never buy another VW... and will heartily advise anyone not to either. 
One thing I do note, though. If what I read on the Vortex is any indication, VW owners tend to beat on their cars horribly (the way they drive) and then blame their myriad of problems on design. Not even the best exotic synthetic oil is going get an engine to 150K miles when smoking tires and wrapping to redline at every other stop light.


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## jeffyscott (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (veedubtek)*

Okay, thanks for the information. If that is correct and assuming the car comes with 50% coolant mix, meaning there is 4.45 L of coolant and 4.45 L of water, then if you lose 1 liter of this mix and add 1 liter of water you will be at 44%. If you lose 2 liters and add 2 L of water all at once you will be at about 39%.
2 quarts is a little less than 2 liters...losing 2 quarts and adding 2 quarts of water all at once puts you at just a bit above 39%. If instead you lose 1 quart and then top it off with a quart of water, then lose another quart and again top it off with water you will be right at 40%.
A 45% mix looks like it protects to -22 and 40% is good to -12, so my preference (here in WI) would be to not go below the 45% mix for an extended period of time and even 45% is not really 100% safe here. So my plan will be to, if at all possible, avoid adding more than a quart of straight water. Adding up to just about 1/2 a gallon of water, in case of emergency would still keep it real close to that 40% minimum.


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## jeffyscott (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (BuddyWh)*

_One thing I do note, though. If what I read on the Vortex is any indication, VW owners tend to beat on their cars horribly (the way they drive) and then blame their myriad of problems on design._
Yes that was another factor that led me to somewhat discount the supposedly poor VW reliability...many of their cars do have a younger demographic. The younger drivers not only drive the car harder (on average) but they also probably have a greater percentage who neglect maintenance.
The corollary is maybe a lot of Toyota's record is due to the average owner being about 95







.


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## BuddyWh (Nov 11, 2006)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (jeffyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeffyscott* »_[ The younger drivers not only drive the car harder (on average) but they also probably have a greater percentage who neglect maintenance.
The corollary is maybe a lot of Toyota's record is due to the average owner being about 95







. 








Very good observation!
And that could explain some of VW's bad dealer rep too!!


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## yettitheman (Jun 27, 2005)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (jeffyscott)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeffyscott* »_
This is our first VW and I am being more careful (paranoid







) regarding things like this. Some of what I have read leads me to believe that some of VWs poor reliability record has been due to people not being careful...not saying what you are planning is in that category, sounds like you know what you are doing on the coolant. But I bet there are some people who will just dump green coolant in or won't use synthetic oil and then will complain about VWs reliability.


Ahah. It's more of the VW community that KNOWS their cars and KNOWS how to keep them going forever. Then, those people tell other people about their car, and then some mechanically challenged person acquires a VW and dosen't know a thing about how to keep maintence up on it. THAT'S when a VW will die. With regular maintence, she will live forever. My 2 cents.


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## MJM Autohaus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: Question on G12 Coolant (@[email protected])*

OEM G12 coolant on sale right now for $9.95 with *FREE SHIPPING!*








Best value you'll find! http://www.mjmautohaus.com http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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