# My '09 SEL Premium brakes



## g60runner67 (Aug 31, 2005)

Will be needing my first set of brake pads at all 4 corners and front rotors...dealer wants insane amount for these, but I see lots of aftermarket and potentially better-than-stock upgrades on eBay and other 'net stores, what would be considered an upgrade and why is the dealer asking for a VIN number when it seems my van is compatible with all the sellers products I'm seeing advertised? Thanks for suggestions


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## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

brakeperformance.com for rotors and Akebono brake pads is how I go, high quality rotors direct from the manufacturer. Akebono ceramics work well and have minimal dust.


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## g60runner67 (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Routan Brakes*

Thanks for the recommendation! Used them and the prices were still waaaay better than the stealership. Cheers


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

g60runner67 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! Used them and the prices were still waaaay better than the stealership. Cheers


Please post back on how these work out. A lot of folks have posted about getting these or other premium brands like ATE, but then don't post back about how well they hold up. I guess the good news is we haven't had anyone post back that these premium rotors were shot after only 6k or 10k miles. Also, which rotors did you get? The dimpled & slotted have the lifetime warranty against warping & cracking, but their own web-site says that the cross drilled are best for venting and temperature reduction (which is what is suspected at causing our rotors to warp with such frequency). But the cross-drilled only have 2 year warranty against warping & cracking (lifetime is only for "materials & workmanship" on these).




Volvos Rock said:


> brakeperformance.com for rotors and Akebono brake pads is how I go, high quality rotors direct from the manufacturer. Akebono ceramics work well and have minimal dust.


Just curious why you went with Akebono instead of either the freebies they include or the $40 "upgrade" to premium pads. I have Akebono on my Passat and have been quite pleased, but I have read ceramics aren't as good on heavier vehicles like trucks/SUVs & vans. The brakeperformance.com chart even shows their premium semi-metallics as best for everything but dusting and pad life:


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## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

*Ceramic brake pads are the way to go.*

I also feel that Ceramic brake pads are the only way to go on our Routans.

They produce less (and less visible) brake dust, produce less heat with less fade,
last longer, are quieter, and are kinder to the rotors. All things the Routan needs.

See this excerpt I just took from TireRack's Brake Tech Information.



> Why Ceramic Brake Pads?
> 
> We want our vehicle's brake system to offer smooth, quiet braking capabilities under a wide range of temperature and road conditions. We don't want brake-generated noise and dust annoying us during our daily driving.
> 
> ...


http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=88

... and I have read this echoed on many different sites.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for that Tirerack quote. That makes sense. I'm on my second set of fronts in the past year, and they just started squeaking/moaning really bad intermittently. If this plays out like the last set (which lasted ~8 months), then the shimmy at highway speeds should be be starting soon. Probably have 1-2 months before I'll need to replace them again. Brakeperformance.com had a half-off sale a few months ago, but the last 2 months have only been their "standard" 10% off. Will see what December brings and then make a decision.

Rock Auto also has PowerStop Performance kit w/ cross-drilled & slotted rotors and ceramic pads for about $50 less than the brakeperformance.com kit with premium pads. But only 2/24 warranty.


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## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

No problem...

I also came across this on the Hawk Performance website.



> PC - Performance Ceramic Brake Compound
> 
> Ultimate stopping power in an ultra-low dust, low noise ceramic compound!
> 
> ...


http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/ceramic.php

It seems also that whatever pad compound a site is selling, that is the one they will say is the best.
But sites that don't sell anything (or sell many kinds) echo what TireRack is saying.

The "Note" is interesting, and I have seen that on other ceramic sellers sites.


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## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

Zmbee, I prefer Akebonos, zero noise and almost zero dust, just a preferance thing. Semi metallics are noisey and hard on rotors. On my Volvo (brake performance dimpled/slotted on all four corners) Akebono does not make the front pads and I have power stop front/Akebono rear. The power stops seem to have as good performance, but dust more.


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## PaulAP (May 21, 2009)

I just happen to stumble across this on another forum, and thought it might be useful for some of us here.


Definman at volkswagenownersclub said:


> *Re: Brake warping issue*
> 
> I have owned two Chrysler minivans in the past and currently own a 2009 Routan. After 25k on the Routan I starred having warpage problems not at all unlike I had with both Chryslers. My fix for the last Chrysler (1999 Limited) was to put PREMIUM rotors and pads on the front (That one had drums in back). But even that solution only got me about twice as many miles before the warping started again.
> 
> When it started on the Routan I had had enough of that BS. I went online and bought drilled and slotted rotors and a set of dustless Kevlar Pads. I have 63k on it now with not a hint of pulsing during stops. There was a HUGE increase in stopping power with no sign of fade. The dustless pads are living up to their name as well. The only drawback is the humming noise that can be heard during braking. If thats a deal breaker for you then you'll have to figure out your own solution. The improvements I got from drilled and slotted rotors will have me putting them in any car I get from now on.


http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/19937-Brake-warping-issue/page2

So it really looks like drilled and slotted rotors with ceramic brake pads are the way to go on our Routans.
At least that's the way I'm going to go when we need rotors. I seems Routan owners rarely need pads.


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## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

I'm having all the same brake issues on my 09 Routan. I've already had the rotors replaced once under warranty by the dealership. I'm not looking to play this game with the dealer like I've been hearing people do. I'm considering just replacing all 4 corners with the cross-drilled and slotted rotors from brakeperformance.com and pair it with some premium ceramic pads. Hopefully this way I save myself some time and aggravation.

1 question though: Do the calipers need to be replaced in this whole process? or will they work fine with the new rotors? :screwy:


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## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

nope, no caliper replacement needed. They will work fine.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

im using Hawk HPS pads up front, and NAPA ceramic pad in the rear.

also using NAPA Rotors all around..

so far so good... Def a better bite using the aftermarket Pads.


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## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

Thanks Volvo Rock. I think I will be placing my order for the cross-drilled and slotted rotors from brakeperformance.com for all 4 corners and pair them up with the Akebono ceramic pads. If this doesn't fix the brake ailments of this Routan, I will likely be looking at trading it in for a Sienna or Odyssey. 

Once I have them on, I will post back with how its working out to hopefully help others come to a solution.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

vrsantana said:


> If this doesn't fix the brake ailments of this Routan, I will likely be looking at trading it in for a Sienna or Odyssey.


 its Funny you said those 2 cars, because they suffer from the EXACT same Brake issues as the Routan.... 

Its just the Nature of the Beast, 6500 lb monsters eat brakes.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

For me the NAPA "premium" rotors on the front didn't prove any better than the OEM. First set made it 8k miles, replaced with another set under warranty this past summer and those have already started to shimmy at hwy speeds and groan/squeal occasionally stopping. The NAPA "ultra premium" rotors were only avail. on the rears for the Routan, although they were avail. for the front on the DGC and CT&C. But for some reason the part numbers didn't match up on the front rotors between the Routan and the DGC/CT&C, so I didn't try the NAPA "ultra premiums" on the front. 

So are people using the cross-drilled & slotted (2-year warranty on warping) rotors from brake performance.com, or their dimpled & slotted (lifetime warranty on warping) rotors? The cross-drilled/slotted are heavily discounted at 50% off compared to 10% off on the dimpled/slotted right now. 

Hadn't heard the Sienna and Odyssey have similar brake problems, although they do have their own costly problems (rear suspension issues on the Honda, run-flat tires lasting no more than a year or so @ $800+ per set, etc.). But I completely disagree on the "nature of the beast" comment re: brake life on 6500 lb. vehicles. Brakes on the GM & Ford full-size vans last a "normal" lifetime. Folks with full-size GM pickups & SUVs frequently get 100k miles on original brakes. The Chryco minivans are just under-designed/engineered for the weight of the vehicles. No reason they couldn't have been designed right though. In my view anyway.


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## Volvos Rock (Oct 13, 2011)

Zambee, my 98 K1500 GM pick-up warps rotors in about 41/2 seconds....but that at least has an excuse as it never travels unless the bed is full, usually around 1 ton of, hay,coal, etc.....finally ordered a set from brakeperformance.com for that. It may be a better test than even the Routan. But I agree the Routans issues lie in massive under breaking issue, not just the weight.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Volvos Rock said:


> Zambee, my 98 K1500 GM pick-up warps rotors in about 41/2 seconds....but that at least has an excuse as it never travels unless the bed is full, usually around 1 ton of, hay,coal, etc.....finally ordered a set from brakeperformance.com for that. It may be a better test than even the Routan. But I agree the Routans issues lie in massive under breaking issue, not just the weight.


 
My 97 Yukon was the same way. I switched to Brembo Cross drilled rotors YEARS ago and Akebono Ceramics on the front. I have never ever warped a rotor, they need the ventilation to cool down, just like the Rout! I'll be hitting Brakeperformance when it's time for rotors. Wait a minute, it already needs them, I should have said, when the pads are shot! I'm running these pads down to the minimum.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

The humming sound mentioned above was likely due to the cross-drilled rotors. No big deal. I have cross-drilled, solid rotors on one of my vehicles and it makes more of a _whoosh_ing sound.

Don't forget that to get the best braking possible the TIRES will make a big difference. The OEM tires have a traction rating of "B" :facepalm: A traction rating of "A" is what would be better...but you'll pay for it which is why most people cheap out.


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## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

Finally getting around to ordering the parts for this brake replacement on my Routan, but what's the difference between "dimpled" and slotted rotors and "cross-drilled" and slotted rotors. The "cross-drilled" and slotted rotors are about $40 cheaper per set. I've got about $500 set aside for this project, so I really want to get the best I can get, that would prevent me from having these issues in the future. 

Any help is surely appreciated.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Don't get dimpled. At a minimum get slotted. They help wipe the pads and shed water from the rotor surface. It's basically a trench that goes across the rotor surface.

Cross-drilled are very good as well. They are actual holes drilled into the rotor surface, allowing water/debris to exit the rotor surface quickly. I have them on my Jetta (Zimmerman and CH Topping custom drilled on my drums) and Squareback (CH Topping custom drilled) and their wet-weather bite is much quicker. There's a reason race vehicles have this done. The chances nowadays of them cracking (as soooo many claim they do oh so often) are slim to none. I drive and brake my cars hard, have gone through a couple sets, and have yet to experience this.

Personally, on my next set of rotors I'll probably try slotted units just to see how they are. Slotted or drilled, you can't go wrong. Just don't get dimpled, those are not worth the money.


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## 16vRocket (Jan 13, 2002)

For anyone looking for an OEM+ BBK, the 2012/2013 Dodge Journey R/T AWD come with larger brakes. There was a lot of discussion about this over on a dodge forum, and potentially the Caravan R/T's have these same brakes as well. I did some research on the Journey brakes and the front rotors are the same PN as the Caravan/T&C so I'm assuming that they would fit the Routan as well.

The larger brakes are 330mm discs and dual piston calipers. Apparently this has taken care of the warping issues... Also note, 16inch wheels will no longer fit over the brakes.

I'm currently looking into this upgrade for my caravan. Just thought I'd pass the info on.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

16vRocket said:


> For anyone looking for an OEM+ BBK, the 2012/2013 Dodge Journey R/T AWD come with larger brakes. There was a lot of discussion about this over on a dodge forum, and potentially the Caravan R/T's have these same brakes as well. I did some research on the Journey brakes and the front rotors are the same PN as the Caravan/T&C so I'm assuming that they would fit the Routan as well.
> 
> The larger brakes are 330mm discs and dual piston calipers. Apparently this has taken care of the warping issues... Also note, 16inch wheels will no longer fit over the brakes.
> 
> I'm currently looking into this upgrade for my caravan. Just thought I'd pass the info on.


Thanks, I think the vans (new ones got this too) the front calipers and rear calipers look different from the earlier vans. Let me know what you find out, I'm getting to the end of the fuse on the current set and am going to have to replace soon. Can you post a link to the thread here so others can reference down the road.


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## 16vRocket (Jan 13, 2002)

I will update once I've done more research with my local parts department. I good friend of mine also works at the plant where the caravan/T&C/Routan are built, so I will ask him as well.

Here's the thread I mentioned earlier.

http://www.dodgejourneyforum.com/topic/3062-12s-with-awd-have-bigger-brakes/


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

16vRocket said:


> Here's the thread I mentioned earlier.
> 
> http://www.dodgejourneyforum.com/topic/3062-12s-with-awd-have-bigger-brakes/


Thank you so much 16vRocket!! Posts #71 and #72 of the thread you linked to is potentially incredibly good news. I too am about at the end of the fuse on the current set of fronts. Symptoms showed up last fall and, at the time, I doubted I would get to the new year, but have managed to keep on keepin' on. But I'll need to pull the trigger soon. This will be our 3rd set of front brakes (rotors/pads) in 20k miles/21 months. If an extra $200-ish will solve the problem once and for all, that's a DEAL.


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## tuanies (Oct 16, 2009)

I wouldn't mind upgrading the front brakes with bigger ones. Please keep us posted


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## 16vRocket (Jan 13, 2002)

I agree. Although I'm not sure if you'll be able to get away with using the stock caliper. With the larger diameter rotors you'll need new caliper carriers. And since the new calipers are dual piston, I'm assuming they are going to be larger.... so to keep the cost down, you may need to find a wrecked '12+ Journey RT AWD or a '12+ Caravan RT that's been in a wreck to salvage the parts from.

Based on the specs of the standard rotors from the Routan and the '12 Journey with standard brakes, I don't think we'll have offset issues either.

Routan
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa...to4qZ8knrq?itemIdentifier=237620_172993_2708_

Journey (Standard Brakes)
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa...Z8knrq?itemIdentifier=237620_172969_2708_2117

Journey (Large Brakes) - They only state the diameter, not all the other specs. But I cant see them changing other than diameter and potentially rotor thickness.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa...dZ8knrq?itemIdentifier=66753_139682_2708_3115


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## DozerCSX (Feb 17, 2013)

Greetings Guys - great thread - just bought a 2010 Routan SE with plans to upgrade rotors and discs as part of the purchase deal - have read this thread and studied the internet fairly thoroughly - lots of very good and solid solutions (it's hard to go wrong updating the crappy OEM components), but details (and arguments) vary on better vs. best - one constant I've found is that brakeperformance.com simply offers great rotors at a low price - I bought the dimpled and slotted rotor package with semi-metallic brakes - primary reason was that these include a lifetime warranty against warping or cracking - no one else carries more than 24k/2yrs on anything - and that sounded like a pretty valuable thing for Routan rotors...!

I actually found the most controversy around semi-metallic vs ceramic brake pads - ceramics are cleaner, quieter, and last longer BUT ceramics are physically harder substances and, in fact, are harder on the rotors - they retain less heat and so by definition pass more heat on to the rotors.

There are lots of arguments on either side, but the most accessible explanation I received came from (1) the brakeperformance support folks, and (2) the following site: http://www.cquence.net/blog/ceramic-vs-semi-metallic-brakes/

I would never alter the size of either the rotors or pads for a Routan due to the potential geometry changes placed on the other suspension components and attach points - plus, there are simply so many effective solutions without altering these, I think it just wouldn't be worth it.

Should be getting the package installed next week - will keep you posted on the results.


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## 97vr6blu (May 7, 2008)

I'll be curious to see how this works out for you. 

All need to be aware that drilled, drilled/slotted, and slotted rotors aren't going to increase your braking performance. You're reducing the effective braking surface of the rotor, so unless you increase your clamping force or use a pad with better bite, you're not going to see any increase in performance. If you notice the cars that come stock with drilled or drilled/slotted rotors, they are accompanied by 4 or 6 piston calipers, not base-level minivan calipers. 

I've had fantastic results using Centric Premium blanks, EBC blanks, and Brembo OEM replacement blanks. My brother's '07 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 has had issues with brakes from the beginning and had his last set done at Midas (big mistake). Had to take it back 3 times for rotor resurfacing due to brake pulsation. I swapped his brakes for him about 15k miles ago with Centric Premium rotors and Centric Posi-Quiet pads all around. No issues since, and he was going in every 5k for resurfacing.

The Centric site does not show pad part numbers for the Routan, but does show part numbers for the 2012 Dodge GC in two different numbers - one for the RT (330mm), and one for the non-RT (302mm). I'm sure these cross over to the Routan in some way; A quick email to Centric will probably answer this question.

http://www.centricparts.com/

DozerCSX: Moving to a larger brake rotor/caliper on the Routan will not pose an issue with suspension geometry - even if you need to swap out the knuckle - it would be coming from another Chrysler product from the same chassis platform. Us car junkies have been doing it for years. :laugh:


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

97vr6blu said:


> ...
> All need to be aware that drilled, drilled/slotted, and slotted rotors aren't going to increase your braking performance. You're reducing the effective braking surface of the rotor, so unless you increase your clamping force or use a pad with better bite, you're not going to see any increase in performance. If you notice the cars that come stock with drilled or drilled/slotted rotors, they are accompanied by 4 or 6 piston calipers, not base-level minivan calipers...


Not true. It makes a difference when it's raining. The amount of surface area lost at any given moment isn't much, I would venture barely negligible, so I personally don't believe it will reduce braking performance. Number of pistons doesn't mean anything and isn't required, it's all in how the braking system is designed, so if the brake systems engineer wanted to use single pistons with drilled rotors s/he could do it no problem.



97vr6blu said:


> DozerCSX: Moving to a larger brake rotor/caliper on the Routan will not pose an issue with suspension geometry - even if you need to swap out the knuckle - it would be coming from another Chrysler product from the same chassis platform. Us car junkies have been doing it for years. :laugh:


Correct, it won't affect suspension & steering geometry but it will definitely affect braking and not always in a good way. For our vans, ABS is set for particular parameters and if the fronts are made larger then the rears need to be made appropriately larger so the ABS system doesn't notice the difference. Simply swapping out the fronts for larger is not a good idea.

Again, the best braking upgrade you can make is better tires because _that_ is what stops your vehicle.


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## 16vRocket (Jan 13, 2002)

A_C_N: The ABS will not be affected as we are not upgrading anything other than the diameter of the rotor itself (along with the caliper carrier to move caliper out). The ABS sensor reads from notches on the driveshafts. We're not changing this, so the ABS system will not be affected. Also, on the models that we're looking to take the larger rotors from, the rears are the same size as the 08-10 GCV/T&C/Routan. Even if we put the larger dual piston calipers on the front, it will not affect the ABS. The only thing you may see longer pedal travel if the brake master cylinder is smaller than the donor vehicles (which I'm also looking into). I've done this on multiple vehicles before with no adverse affects on ABS/TC systems.

and regarding your last statement, the goal of this is not to get better braking performance. It's to prevent the warping of rotors due to undersized brakes from the factory. One reason I prefer the OEM+ upgrade of larger rotors is that I can go to the dealer/NAPA/Autozone and get regular blanks (or have a shop do it) over having to order slotted/drilled/carbon ceramic/etc rotors. Also, this is a mod that is easily reversible so that when I sell the van, I can put the original parts back on and away I go.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

16vRocket said:


> and regarding your last statement, the goal of this is not to get better braking performance. It's to prevent the warping of rotors due to undersized brakes from the factory.


While I agree that preventing rotor warping is the primary reason for such an upgrade, I'd say "the goal" is two-fold. I'm not sure if others agree, but I think the brake performance from the OEM design is also lacking. I've driven other large vehicles like full-size p/ups and SUVs, and the stopping power of the Routan leaves a lot to be desired. I'm looking for a solution that prevents rotors warping and, perhaps, adds to stopping ability.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

16vRocket said:


> A_C_N: The ABS will not be affected as we are not upgrading anything other than the diameter of the rotor itself (along with the caliper carrier to move caliper out). The ABS sensor reads from notches on the driveshafts. We're not changing this, so the ABS system will not be affected. Also, on the models that we're looking to take the larger rotors from, the rears are the same size as the 08-10 GCV/T&C/Routan. Even if we put the larger dual piston calipers on the front, it will not affect the ABS. The only thing you may see longer pedal travel if the brake master cylinder is smaller than the donor vehicles (which I'm also looking into). I've done this on multiple vehicles before with no adverse affects on ABS/TC systems.


If you go to a thicker rotor and otherwise leave the stock components alone, correct. If you go for a larger diameter rotor you'll need to move to a larger caliper so as to house larger pads to take advantage of the greater sweep area and that changes the brake force needed to stop the vehicle...which is different than what the ABS was programmed for. If dual piston calipers are added and their piston area is different than the stock piston area then it most definitely will affect the braking system (ABS in our case)! I probably won't be able to explain it all well enough so I highly recommend everyone reads this article as I've found it does a good job of explaining while echoing what I've already researched:
Click me
Actually, I really like that site as it has really good technical white papers.

If you're going to a larger diameter rotor and ONLY moving the caliper out -- and you'll still have rim clearance! -- then you're adding unsprung mass to your suspension which is generally not what one wants to do! And, of course, having additional swept area being wasted.



16vRocket said:


> and regarding your last statement, the goal of this is not to get better braking performance. It's to prevent the warping of rotors due to undersized brakes from the factory. One reason I prefer the OEM+ upgrade of larger rotors is that I can go to the dealer/NAPA/Autozone and get regular blanks (or have a shop do it) over having to order slotted/drilled/carbon ceramic/etc rotors. Also, this is a mod that is easily reversible so that when I sell the van, I can put the original parts back on and away I go.


Grasshoppa...if the vehicle stops better (for example, less ABS kicking in) then less braking is necessary, which means less heat needing dissipating.

I agree, the rotors are wimpy and going to a non-OEM solution is likely best. I just want to remind volks that there's more to brake upgrades than simply slapping on "bigger brakes".


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## 97vr6blu (May 7, 2008)

I see we have an interweb professor here. :laugh:

Item 1: Drilled/Slotted rotors WILL NOT increase your braking performance, period. ANY decrease in rotor surface area will have a negative effect in braking performance unless offset with a more aggressive pad or more clamping force. 1 square inch of lost surface area has a much larger impact than you may be led to think. These are basic laws of physics, no magic here. Yes, a drilled/slotted rotor will have an advantage over blanks when completely drenched in water. Remember, wet brakes are only wet for the first couple of applications.

Item 2: "Number of Pistons doesn't mean anything and is not required" – Not sure where you get this idea. Multi-piston calipers provide more clamping force as well as more evenly-distributed braking force. They also use less fluid volume than a single-piston unit, requiring less pedal effort for the amount of clamping force exerted. Show me a single-piston floating-caliper braking system on a modern car that uses drilled rotors. (Don’t waste your time searching)

Item 3: ABS concerns. The ABS system on our Dodgewagens is not as technologically advanced as you might think, and increasing rotor size by 30mm is not going to have an adverse effect on our braking performance. As 16vRocket pointed out, wheel speed is detected by the ABS system at the bearing or near the bearing using a tone ring. The article from StopTech is describing a highly advanced integrated system similar to Porsche’s PSM, not that of a $25k universal Chrysler platform. If anything, the brake upgrade may have a larger impact on the rather pointless brake-based TCS system our vans use.

Item 4: “Bigger rotors need bigger calipers and pads to take advantage of the greater sweep area”. If you want to take maximum advantage of a bigger rotor, yes. Simply taking the existing caliper/pad combo and moving it further from the center point of rotation using a bigger rotor will create better leverage, which equates to more stopping power. Again, basic physics here. The addition of 2-3lbs of unsprung rotational mass per corner will have pretty much zero effect – it’s a minivan, not a race car.

It’s evident you’re trying to help (I think), but grabbing info from StopTech and labeling it as gospel doesn’t really help anyone. If you weren’t simply regurgitating interweb learnings, it might add some credence to what you’re saying. We are trying to come up with an OEM+ solution for the lackluster brakes on these vans. I would never push anyone toward a solution that is less than ideal for their family-hauler, but people need to understand that slapping on some ebay drilled rotors is NOT the answer and potentially puts your family in harm’s way. Simply moving to a better quality pad and a rotor that uses quality steel is the first logical move. I have resolved this exact issue doing just that on upwards of 15 different vehicles. There have been instances where the OEM+ solution is necessary based on vehicle use, towing, heavy loads, 35” tires, etc. In those instances, there have been exactly ZERO issues with ABS or TCS systems.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Jesus Christ...kid gloves off... opcorn:

Me, regurgitating? Ok, what proof have you offered? None. Just claims. Where's the numbers of before and after with your "upgrade" modifications? How exactly did you do your testing? Did you test dry, wet, hot, and cold?

No, I've done lot's of reading when I was researching brake upgrades for my cars, far beyond the morsels I gave and which you obviously didn't *read*. Nor, does it seem, you really read what I posted...more like skimmed as you're using what I wrote incompletely, like a tabloid writes a story using information out of context. I'm not some kid, I have some racing experience, lots of hands-on experience, and it is painfully obvious that I know more about braking, definitely more about physics, and have much better reading comprehension since you found my "Item 3" incorrect :facepalm: Oh wow did you give me a good laugh when I read that item.

I'll go my way and you go _blissfully_ your way. I'm done with this thread as it's obvious neither of us agree with the other.


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## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

Finally got the slotted and cross-drilled rotors from brakeperformance.com and akebono ceramic pads all around installed on the van. Everything seems good so far except that they make sort of a humming sound when you get on them sort of hard. Not sure if this is a normal sound I need to get used to or if I may have done something incorrect or maybe even it's something that will go away seeing that I've only put about 30 miles on them so far. Any input will be appreciated. I will post back with regular updates as I get more miles on them


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

I'll be going this way shortly. We had three sets of brakes put on under warranty. Now with almost 50k on the van the rears won't make it till inspection in August. I just replaced the Turanzas two weeks ago and the brakes are on the hit list. I'd venture to say that anything will be better than OEM. The humming is coming from the cross drilled rotors, although I have them on my Yukon and have never heard the humming from them (Brembo's). Did you get everything from them?

Keep us updated over the next few weeks as I'll be purchasing shortly. What was your total cost and can you post some pics or email them to me? Shoot me a PM if you can't post the pics, I'd like to see them.

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## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

I had them installed at a local shop, but I'll post pics of them installed later today. I purchased the 4 rotors at brake performance and the pads I bought from tirerack.com. They seemed to have the best price on the Akebono ceramic pads. Hope this helps.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Right on man! Yeah I didn't see the akebonos on their site, that's what I run on the front of my Yukon and I have zero brake dust, from Tirerack as well. As compared to stock how does it feel while braking? I know most guys complain about braking in these vans but ours is real good, other than the warping. The cross drilleds and ceramic pads on my Yukon cure all of it braking woes, other than the lack luster pedal feel which it's had since day one, but the braking feels much better that standard pads and oem rotors. Sorry to drill you on the questions.


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## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

No problem. The brake pedal feels like I need to push on it a little harder than before, but braking is smooth unlike before. Like I said before, my only complaint so far is the faint humming noise when baking hard. Otherwise, so far so good.


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## vrsantana (Sep 25, 2006)

Here are some pics of the new rotors on the Routan. I did the I could with the wheels covering up a large part of the rotors. 
front:








Rear:








Close up:


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## 97vr6blu (May 7, 2008)

vrsantana said:


> No problem. The brake pedal feels like I need to push on it a little harder than before, but braking is smooth unlike before. Like I said before, my only complaint so far is the faint humming noise when baking hard. Otherwise, so far so good.


That extra pedal effort needed is due to the lost surface area from the cross-drilling as I stated a few posts back. I talked with my old colleague at Carlisle Brake & Friction about this issue. He stated that the drilled rotors may very well be just the right compromise for those with the earlier brakes. The drilled rotors probably stay just cool enough to prevent glazing when keeping the brakes applied after a hard stop. He also agreed that a quality semi-metallic pad in combination with a quality rotor should be just fine and resolve the problem without having to move to a drilled rotor. He of course recommended trying some Hawk HPS pads if they make them for that application. :laugh:

He also warned of the potential for fluctuating quality on a lot of these cheap cross-drilled rotors and suggests inspecting them every 5k miles or so.

As stated above, don't worry about the hum/flutter from the drilled rotors - this is perfectly normal. 

Happy motoring, and keep us updated as to how these hold up as you accumulate more miles. :thumbup:


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## DozerCSX (Feb 17, 2013)

Greetings - quick update since my earlier post (a lot of action on the wire since I checked in!) Got my BrakePerformance setup installed, and broken in: 
*** IMPORTANT *** it is imperative that with any after-market brake setup you meticulously go through the Pad/Rotor Break in process *** I took about a week between the install and formal break-in/seating. Initially the setup was noisy, chattery, and a bit squeaky - once I did the formal seating/break-in, things became OEM-quiet, with only a tiny wind-like-noise if you roll the windows down. BrakePerformance also recommends that you wait a few days like I did to scrub off the zinc coating on the faces prior to seating. So far, so good! And they look fairly awesome, to boot (pictures coming shortly). I have the semi-metallic pads, and the new setup throws only about a quarter of the dust as the factory did - interestingly, most dramatic change was on the rears - factory setup threw prodigious amounts of dust in the rear - now the rears are almost dust-free. 

And I know there is a lot of theoretic controversy on the impact of slots and dimples - all I know is that these just darn work - pedal effort is about the same, but these things can really "drop anchor" if needed, with none of the vibration, pulsing or shuddering of the factory setup under similar use. More to come...


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Great work dozer! Getting closer to pulling the trigger, I might have to do it sooner after that feed back. I assume you bought the whole enchilada from bp?

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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Hey Dozar - you mentioned you went with the semi-metallic pads. did you go with the "freebies" they throw in with the dimpled & slotted, or did you $40 upgrade to premium semi-metallic? 

Is anyone familiar with the PowerStop kits? They include zinc coated cross-drilled & slotted and "scorched" ceramic pads and run about $50 less per axle than the brakeperformance.com setup. 

I'm pulling the trigger (finally) this week.


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## DozerCSX (Feb 17, 2013)

Gents - after much internal debate, I wound up going with the base-model "freebies" semi-metallic pads - my intent was never to race or abuse these brakes, just to address the factory problem - in talking it over with the BrakePerformance support guys, they thought I'd be fine with the base pads, so I'm giving it a go (also recall that these are the only rotors with lifetime warranty against warping or cracking, so I figure I'm covered). Total price for me was $380 out the door for front and rear rotors and pads (I think there's currently an even better sale now, for like $40 cheaper) - it was another $225 at the local shop to install. 

Re: the pad upgrade - looks like the current $40 discount would make it a no-brainer. 

I looked at PowerStop - I seem to recall they were a bit more expensive than BP, but I could be wrong. Also, for what it's worth, PowerStop is cast in England, and I think the shipping costs were much higher and the wait was like three weeks - BrakePerformance is in America, and the shipping was free/included - they had them on the truck within like three days (only delay was that they zinc-dip on order, which I think is pretty cool BTW). 

p.s. I can't figure out how to post pictures (I don't have a URL for my computer) - if anyone has advice on how to do that I'd be much obliged (online or offline) otherwise I can send 'em to you if you're interested...


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## DozerCSX (Feb 17, 2013)

Quick follow-up: 4000 miles now on the BrakePerformance dimpled/slotted rotors and pads, two long trips and lots of driving everywhere - brake feel continues to be excellent, completely vibration-free, and the darn things will just bite if needed. Interestingly, I did need to do another "set the pads" exercise after about 1000 miles, as I picked up a noticeable brake squeal before then - once I reset 'em with about 16 consecutive cycles from 60mph down to about 5mph and back, they went silent again. Still essentially NO brake dust on the rears, fronts do put out what I would call "standard" amounts of brake dust - I wind up wiping them with a cloth about every other week. 

The only unexpected thing is that they do "talk to you" - it's not a whistle, nor a squeal, nor a roar, but when I brake from above 40mph or so, you do get a slightly-louder-than-OEM sound, especially when you get on 'em really hard - although NO vibration. And if you roll down the windows from say 15mph to 30mph, you can hear a faint sound like a card in the spokes of a distant bicycle - I presume it's the air passing over the dimples/slots. Interestingly, at both slower and higher speeds, that sound goes away. 

All told, a complete fix to the problem, and an "A". I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I think the only thing I'd reconsider is to get the upgraded semi-metallic brake pads - probably just to say I had upgraded pads more than anything! For simple, cheap and effective, it still looks like a solution for 2009-2010 Routan's which just works.


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