# My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!!



## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

My wife and I took a trip over the weekend to Moab, UT and what an adventure. On the way to that spectacular part of the world, I kept getting a "BRAKE FAILURE-STOP" warning on my Touareg. Determined to not let this ruin my trip to Moab, I turned the car off and restarted it and the problem went away. This happen three more times and finally it appeared my new cell phone was triggering it. Because the warning happened everytime my phone searched for service and found it. I was keeping my phone in the little console tray in front of the shifter... and when I moved it to the storage area on top of the dash, the problem stopped.... or so I thought. (more on this later.) 
Then, my wife and I wanted to see how the TOUAREG did off road. We got about 3/4 of a mile onto the trail and came to a rather steep decline, so we stopped and tried to put the TOUAREG into low and see how the "hill descent control" worked. That's when all hell broke loose. The TOUAREG would not go into low, then all the warning lights started to flash and my vehicle was rendered useless. It disengaged the transmission and the TOUAREG would not move. After 45-minutes of going thru the owner's manual, removing and plugging fuses back in --- NOTHING! 
So, we walked back to the main road (mind you it's a Sunday) and we're still 40-miles from Moab - which means we'er in the middle of nowhere. After standing on the side of the road for about 30-minutes, a guy came by in his Jeep Cherokee. He drove us back to the TOUAREG to see if he could help. After no luck, we hooked up the tow strap and he was going to take us to a parking lot, so we could at least get the car off the trail. Just as we get ready to start moving, I start the TOUAREG and for no reason... everything was working again and we were able to drive it. 
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE. On the way home (back to Denver) the "HIGH" - "LOW" and "AUTO DIFF" lights started blinking like mad, but nothing happened to the TOUAREG. So I started calling my dealer and told them I was on the road headed their way. They had a new Passat ready for me when I got there.... OH WAIT... THERE'S MORE! 
About 80-miles outside of Denver, the STOP-BRAKE FAILURE warning light came on again three more times (see remedy is earlier part of post). 
Bottom line... I'm pissed. That car damn near left me stuck in the middle of God's country. But at least it got me home and my dealer is being great about taking care of me.


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## Chuck Cheeze (Aug 14, 2003)

Rule # 1 of off roading...never go alone.
Sorry to hear about the problems. Sounds pretty serious. Good luck.


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## DenverBill (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

Sorry to hear about the problems. Glad we only VAG'd your seat belt chime







, as that would have nothing to do with your brake and diff craziness. Keep us posted. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VeryBadDog (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

This sounds similar to thread
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1195994


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (VeryBadDog)*

UPDATE ON PROBLEMS: My dealership has run all kinds of diagnostics and they say they got back a bunch of error codes and they don't know what to make of it right now.
My service guy says they have been trying to get in touch with VW engineers for help, but so far they don't have any answers for me. I guess there's always tomorrow (1/21/04).
I'll keep you posted!


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

Hey! We found each other!!! I had the exact same problems. (in opposite order) See "my t-reg's a lemon). I am about 15 days away from a sure thing (according to the dealership) of having mine replaced. I completely understand how you feel. I had to be towed in after a trip from hell on a rural road in the everglades. My dealership said they got a bunch of codes that backed up what I was saying, but VoA has no clue. All the techs are still scratching their heads. What is your V.I.N.??


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## trebien (Jan 8, 2003)

"Rule # 1 of off roading...never go alone."
Gimme a f-ing break. If the "mrs." and I want to go run a nice, easy dirt road on a Sunday afternoon, I shouldn't have to worry aobut it being ruined by my Treg computers going all "TRON" on my ass.
The more I read this board:
1. The happier I am I didn't buy a Treg yet.
2. The more I look at a loaded Aviator/GX470.
Guess what - if VW doesn't get this nonsense figured out soon, the residual on these things is gonna be worthless. More than the usual "VW" worthless. Ironically, I can picture an Aviator being worth more down the road than the VW.
Sorry, just tired of people blindedly making excuses or shifting blame for problems that shouldn't exist in the first place on this car. 
Even if it is a first-year vehicle - so are the GX470 and FX45 and Aviator and they don't have widespread glitches like the Treg or refuse to start or render themselves useless just for the heck of it. Because a car has computers, doesn't mean that you shouldn't expect them to work correctly. Most modern vehicles have many computers. It just seems that the Treg is running Windows 3.1 - probably why it uses a CD-based nav, because W3.1 won't recognize a DVD drive.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

*Re: (trebien)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trebien* »_"Rule # 1 of off roading...never go alone."
Gimme a f-ing break. If the "mrs." and I want to go run a nice, easy dirt road on a Sunday afternoon, I shouldn't have to worry aobut it being ruined by my Treg computers going all "TRON" on my ass.
The more I read this board:
1. The happier I am I didn't buy a Treg yet.
2. The more I look at a loaded Aviator/GX470.
Guess what - if VW doesn't get this nonsense figured out soon, the residual on these things is gonna be worthless. More than the usual "VW" worthless. Ironically, I can picture an Aviator being worth more down the road than the VW.
Sorry, just tired of people blindedly making excuses or shifting blame for problems that shouldn't exist in the first place on this car. 
Even if it is a first-year vehicle - so are the GX470 and FX45 and Aviator and they don't have widespread glitches like the Treg or refuse to start or render themselves useless just for the heck of it. Because a car has computers, doesn't mean that you shouldn't expect them to work correctly. Most modern vehicles have many computers. It just seems that the Treg is running Windows 3.1 - probably why it uses a CD-based nav, because W3.1 won't recognize a DVD drive.

The GX and the Aviator are poor comparisons to the Touareg. Both are first-year models, but both are also offspring of another model. For all practical purposes, the Aviator is an Explorer with some Navigator goodies in it. The GX is essentially a 4Runner, and even if it is not very much like the 4Runner, Toyota has been building luxury SUVs for a number of years now, so it is essentially not a "first-year model" in the sense that the Touareg is.


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## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (trebien)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trebien* »_"Rule # 1 of off roading...never go alone."
Gimme a f-ing break. If the "mrs." and I want to go run a nice, easy dirt road on a Sunday afternoon, I shouldn't have to worry aobut it being ruined by my Treg computers going all "TRON" on my ass.
The more I read this board:
1. The happier I am I didn't buy a Treg yet.
2. The more I look at a loaded Aviator/GX470.
Guess what - if VW doesn't get this nonsense figured out soon, the residual on these things is gonna be worthless. More than the usual "VW" worthless. Ironically, I can picture an Aviator being worth more down the road than the VW.
Sorry, just tired of people blindedly making excuses or shifting blame for problems that shouldn't exist in the first place on this car. 
Even if it is a first-year vehicle - so are the GX470 and FX45 and Aviator and they don't have widespread glitches like the Treg or refuse to start or render themselves useless just for the heck of it. Because a car has computers, doesn't mean that you shouldn't expect them to work correctly. Most modern vehicles have many computers. It just seems that the Treg is running Windows 3.1 - probably why it uses a CD-based nav, because W3.1 won't recognize a DVD drive.

Give ME a f-ing break. Go buy your f-ing Aviator PoS and get off this board if you don't like it. Unfortunately you and others seem clueless. Of course there are some failures happening out there with some Touaregs. You should know that this does not represent a majority of them, however. If it's gonna make you feel better to buy an Aviator or other piece of junk go for it. No need to start bashing people for buying a VW Touareg.


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## PabloP (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: (TCinOC)*

Well, Tim, don't be so harsh. The Aviator is a nice Ford Explorer, and not a bad value for the price one actually has to pay. Paying Lexus prices for a Toyota has always seemed a little strange to me. If you have friends who are interested in the GX470, or whatever they call that 4runner Lexus, tell them not to drive uphill if they have a sense of smell.
The Touareg is having teething pains, and the decision to buy one may not be entirely rational, but logic is overrated.


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## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (silverandteak)*

Paul,
I for one understood the risks involved when buying a first year vehicle, but I haven't had any issues with my Treg whatsoever. It just annoys me when someone wants straight answers about the Treg from "owners" and then non-owners jump in and start bashing. Saying stupid things like how much better a friggin Aviator is. Gimme a break. Btw, your descriptions are on the money


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## RvDUB (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

Sorry to hear about your troubles. What Dealer did you take your Reg to here in Denver? I am just trying to gather some info for my first service soon ! 


_Modified by RvDUB at 8:25 AM 1-21-2004_


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (RvDUB)*

The dealer I bought my TOUAREG from and where it is being serviced is McDonald Automotive on Broadway.
The sales managers, Charlie and Joe, along with my sales guy "Shrek" have been great! Matt in the service department has been great about calling me to let me know what's going on - even though he doesn't have any answers. I can't state enough how good the dealership has been so far in dealing with this problem.
I'm waiting for my morning update now.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

The last five of my V.I.N. are 28718


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## RvDUB (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

That's ggod to know. I usally take my GTI 337 there for service and work with Dave. Great guys !


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (RvDUB)*

WEDNESDAY MORNING UPDATE: 
My service tech has talked with the VW help line and my tech was instructed to re-check the wiring on my TOUAREG, which my dealer says they've have already done several times. 
That's the only help VW has been able to give so far.... but I'm told there will be more to come this afternoon.
I will keep you posted.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

WEDNESDAY EVENING UPDATE:
After two days of searching for the problem with my TOUAREG, there still isn't any good news. VW's engineers have given my dealership instructions on a couple of things to look for... both were a dead end.
I got the print out today of the error codes that showed up. 11 different problems showed up on the print-out ranging from problems with windows, to all kinds of trouble with the 4WD system and transmission.
For the record, there are no problems with windows, but the other problems..... who knows.
I did have a heart-to-heart sit down with one of the sales managers at McDonald Automotive, as well as Wayne the Service Manager and it was a good talk. I really get the sense that this place wants to help me out, but they want to exhaust all options they can to fix my vehicle before we get into a serious discussion about "what ifs."
I'm trying to be patient, but the fact is..... I bought a TOUAREG with no intention of driving around a Passat long-term.
I'm keeping the faith.... but faith has a limit and Friday is it.


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## rbeamis (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

I am not currently a Touareg owner, so pardon me if I butt in here, but I'd just say that this truck along with the Cayenne and the A7 (?)-Audi is the hottest thing going anywhere and once some of these bugs get worked out I'm going to jump on board. Personally, I'm going to buy the TDI in mid '05 if I can conjure the cash by then. If I were you, I'd be asking for a Touareg loaner, and asking for a replacement with TDI to be built for you if they can't solve the problem. But it's always easier said then done. Either way, don't lose the faith.


_Modified by rbeamis at 3:08 AM 1-22-2004_


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (rbeamis)*

THURSDAY MORNING UPDATE:
The dealership just called and said that the code change for turning off my seatbelt chime changed the language in my instrument cluster and now my cluster is trying to tell my TOUAREG something in german when the car is set on english.
Does this sound like a plausible theory that using a VAG-Com to turn off my seat belt chime would cause this cascading effect of problem with my brake warning lights, four-wheel drive control panel and the vehicle preventing any of the gears from engaging when the nightmare happened in Moab??????
PLEASE HELP!


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

The seatbelt warning doesn't change the language that I can recall. It is the navigation acceptance that changes the language. And the setting on that is for Europe, so their line about the car speaking English to a German module is PURE BS as far as I can tell. Besides, you aren't the only one who has done this mod but ARE the only one here with the problem.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

While I can't speak for your exact problem, I can say that one of your fellow Touareg owners, cgmb16, has had some coding problems due to some kind of change he had done to a code. I can't recall exactly what the deal was, but it had something to do with the rainsensor. So basically I have no clue if the dealership could be pulling the wool or not. Maybe Craig will see this and reply for you, but it might be a while, because the lucky bahstid is skiing in the mountains.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (BRM10984)*

UN F'ing BELIEVABLE,
THURSDAY PM UPDATE:
My dealership just called me to say they think they have fixed my TOUAREG. They went back and changed the code on the seat-belt chime (turning it back on after it was VAG-Com'd off) and the dealership tells me that all of the fault warning disappeared and everything is working like it did before. Oh, and that the repairs ARE NOT covered by my warranty and that I'll have to fork over about $1,200.00 for the work.
What I can't believe is that there are so may TOUAREG's on the road that have had their seat-belt chimes turned off and owners haven't had any problems.... and mine is the one that does!?!?!?!?!
I'm so irritated right now I could either







or spit!!!!!


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## Bill 2158 (Nov 7, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_UN F'ing BELIEVABLE,
THURSDAY PM UPDATE:
My dealership just called me to say they think they have fixed my TOUAREG. They went back and changed the code on the seat-belt chime (turning it back on after it was VAG-Com'd off) and the dealership tells me that all of the fault warning disappeared and everything is working like it did before. Oh, and that the repairs ARE NOT covered by my warranty and that I'll have to fork over about $1,200.00 for the work.
What I can't believe is that there are so may TOUAREG's on the road that have had their seat-belt chimes turned off and owners haven't had any problems.... and mine is the one that does!?!?!?!?!
I'm so irritated right now I could either







or spit!!!!!










Not direct at you TREGinginCO, but WHY IN THE F*** would you be responsible to pay for it? Because of the VAG-COM tweak







, they'd have to have exacting proof that was the cause or they would likely be needing to return small arms fire from me!
******************** that sucks. Hope it turns out better than that for you. This makes me think a new animated gif of a Touareg driven through a showroom window at high speed is needed, the banghead just doesn't do it.
Oh yeah, that is "UN F'ing BELIEVABLE"


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

Be sure to tell them they are giving you your $1200 back when the problems resurface. As arnie said; "I'll be bacK".


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## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (spockcat)*

This is very unfortunate. This is also the reason why I'm wary about "tweaking" my cars with software myself because it may just come back to haunt you in the end. I could see this coming a mile away with the dealer placing blame on owners who chose to VAG-COM certain functions. This really sucks though. There's just way too many complicated electronics in the Treg for me to be comfortable. Good luck.


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

Hey. Update on OUR problem. DO NOT put up with any BS from your dealer. Besides cars, that's what most of them sell. VW just called my dealer's service mgr today and told them to order a new "control module" for the truck. (so much for their SH_T about replacing the truck or giving me my money back) Given your desciptions, we have the same problem, so tell your dealership to call CHRIS at Gunther Motors in Ft. Lauderdale. The number is (954) 797-1660. DO NOT GET SCREWED!!!!!
Call me direct if you have any questions at my office (305) 373-6773
GOOD LUCK
PAUL


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## trebien (Jan 8, 2003)

1.) The Touareg was out for a while in Europe before here, so this shiznit should be ironed out by now. A few months ago was NOT the first time a Touareg ever hit pavement.
2.) As long as consumers blindly follow VW into new cars that have problems, then VW will continue to produce cars void of quality control - welcome to an open market economy. They won't change if they don't have to.
3.) I did not personally bash anybody for getting a Touareg. I am still seriously in the market for one, but would not dare buy one right now, and that's my choice. You have to realize that if the buying public does not demand better quality of VW, then VW will NOT be forced (by the market) to deliver higher quality and will continue to choose not to.
4.) I wish you all the best with your Touaregs. But you should be mad - think about what these problems will do to your resale values down the road - you are losing money as you speak. You sure wouldn't be losing money on Lexus or BMW depreciation right now.
5.) The Aviator IS a Ford product. But go drive one, just for kicks. I think you will be impressed for what it is - I was. But if not, that's fine, too.
6.) On paper, the Touareg is the baddest value out there in the SUV world, no question. However, it's a different story in the "real world" unfortunately.
7.) YOU VAG-COMed a setting. If that caused the problems, then you should be responsible. The question is... did it really cause the problem? Of course the dealer will try to hold you responsible.
8.) Good luck - I mean it.


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## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (trebien)*

4.) I wish you all the best with your Touaregs. But you should be mad - think about what these problems will do to your resale values down the road - you are losing money as you speak. You sure wouldn't be losing money on Lexus or BMW depreciation right now.
*Why will the resale value of Touaregs be affected by a very small number of vehicles? How many people in the general public do you think are aware of the glitches that have been discussed on this board? And do you STILL think a majority of Touaregs are being plagued by these problems? Think again.*

6.) On paper, the Touareg is the baddest value out there in the SUV world, no question. However, it's a different story in the "real world" unfortunately.
*"baddest" value out there in the SUV world? I assume you mean that in a positive way. Now, how is it different in the real world as opposed to paper again? You need to back this statement up for sure. Do you think the Lexus SUVs are a good "value"? How about the X5? Do you like paying an extra $1,200 for an auto tranny? How about leather? Sunroof? No thanks. I think you are in the minority when it comes to your opinion on the "value" of the Touareg, no doubt about it.*
7.) YOU VAG-COMed a setting. If that caused the problems, then you should be responsible. The question is... did it really cause the problem? Of course the dealer will try to hold you responsible.
*This I agree with.*


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## Dominik (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

I have been doing embedded computer work (professionally) for around 15 years and based on my experience, I would be very careful to tweak the electronics of a vehicle like the Touareg without a full set of tools (VAG-COM is cool but not enough to trouble-shoot if something goes wrong) _and_ documentation _and_ (because if something goes wrong, it can be really expensive) somebody with Touareg computer system experience around.
Simply hacking in some codes that you found on the 'net is playing with fire (at least one VAG-COM hack is already known to render the vehicle unusable (the airbag emulation hack) - it even got 'sticky' status in this forum).

The Touareg uses (a) CAN network(s) with who knows how many nodes. Each node is essentially its own little computer system with CPU/RAM/ROM/Flash/IO etc. Most likely even the seatbelts have their own CAN nodes. Each node runs their own little firmware (like a mini-OS), can ask for BUS ownership (arbitration), can talk on the bus etc. The whole shebang must work together and if it is tampered with in a fashion not anticipated by design, things can possibly break in weird ways.
Not saying that VAG-COM isn't useful, but you better know what you are doing (I would only use it for diagnostics)!
..Dominik


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (Dominik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dominik* »_ (at least one VAG-COM hack is already known to render the vehicle unusable (the airbag emulation hack) - it even got 'sticky' status in this forum).

If you read the post about this subject http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=982371 you will see that it was an output test, not some hack as you mention. What it did was exactly what the factory intended; if the airbags go off (as the test emulates), a circuit breaker under the seat was cut so the car would no longer have power in an accident. 
As for the problem experienced by TREGinginCO, he is not the only one to have changed settings but the only one with this problem. The settings themselves are factory setting that are just not used for this country. So I don't buy the dealer's answer that they caused the problem unless he did the modification incorrectly in the first place. However, as he mentioned to me on the phone last night, he has had the settings for over two weeks. Why would they suddenly cause this failure now? How can a seatbelt warning cause a brake failure warning and his differential to fail? These failures should have shown up right away and on all our cars if the code is the cause.


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## lonewolf (May 18, 2000)

*Re: (trebien)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trebien* »_5.) The Aviator IS a Ford product. But go drive one, just for kicks. I think you will be impressed for what it is - I was. But if not, that's fine, too.

The Aviator is a rebagded and tarted up Ford Explorer. While it is certainly better than the plain-jane Explorer, it still is not exactly anywhere in the same league as a T-Reg neither in luxury nor in sport or offroading. If the Aviator was really so good, wonder why Ford is having such a tough time selling them and why is Ford considering canning or lowering the price on it? Maybe it is a flop ???


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## Dominik (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
If you read the post about this subject http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=982371 you will see that it was an output test, not some hack as you mention. What it did was exactly what the factory intended; if the airbags go off (as the test emulates), a circuit breaker under the seat was cut so the car would no longer have power in an accident....
Why would they suddenly cause this failure now? How can a seatbelt warning cause a brake failure warning and his differential to fail? These failures should have shown up right away and on all our cars if the code is the cause.

Maybe the word 'hack' is emotionally charged and I should not have used it. What I wanted to point out is that seemingly harmless operations (this output test), can cause very undesired results for people who DON'T have all the necessary documentation - if you don't know exactly what a SW modification/setting change does, then it doesn't matter if the result is factory intended or not - what if the factory intended to actually trigger the airbag in the output test (unlikely but without documentation, who knows what the thing will do?)?
As to your questions, how the seatbelt change can possibly cause the whole electrical system to wreak havoc: I don't know and neither do you or anybody who doesn't have VW's documentation about the Touareg's electronics. By looking at the CAN network overview on http://www.ohiovw.com/files/touaregfiles , you can see that the system is very complex.
Though it seems ridiculous to suggest that turning off the seatbelt chime can cause unrelated systems to malfunctions, it is not that easy to rule it out just because of 'common sense'. Maybe it can, maybe it can't. And just because other people have not experienced it, is not proof that it can't happen either. Who knows whats really going on in this CAN system - I doubt even VW knows all the possible states this system can be in (hint: read through all the posts complaining about the Touareg's electrical gremlins).


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (Dominik)*

Many electrical gremlins are traced back to poor connections/bad grounds. I suspect that this will end up being the cause but we may never know. As the owner told me last night, the dealer was all over the car looking for the problem. they may well have solved it inadvertently by tightening some wires or connections and then resetting the code for the seatbelt. They may even be collecting from the owner as well as VW for warranty service. Only if the problem reoccurs will we probably find out the truth.


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## trebien (Jan 8, 2003)

*Re: (TCinOC)*

*Why will the resale value of Touaregs be affected by a very small number of vehicles? How many people in the general public do you think are aware of the glitches that have been discussed on this board? And do you STILL think a majority of Touaregs are being plagued by these problems? Think again.* 
If you have to ask... then obviously you don't understand. 
Only a _few_ Firestone tires ruptured, out of the millions produced, and only a few Explorers rolled over... but it ruined Firestone as a company - it will be gone in a few years. And Ford had major problems selling the Explorer after that - even afer it was redesigned.
On average, the resale is not set by the "general public" but by car dealers and banks - institutions that use "bean counters" that research a vehicle's history to determine a value. If it is a problem-prone model, then the resale value suffers. It only takes a few models... Audi with the "drive through the window" transmission about 10 years ago, Ford Exploder, Grand Cherokee transmissions, etc. The media already got ahold of the tow-rating thing with the Touareg... these little things add up to create the public's perception of the Touareg.
Thank about it - with all those computers and gizmos and everything else... what is that going to cost when they have problems and the vehicle is out of warranty 3 or 4 years down the road? Talk about an expensive vehicle to maintain/repair after the warranty!
I'm not bashing the vehicle or any owners - but I would demand more for my $50K and be worried about these issues - important considerations for an educated purchase decision.
If a $50k Touareg has a crappy resale, and 3 years down the road you get only $25,000 for it, and you could get $35,000 for a 3 year old BMW or Lexus that initially cost you $55K, then whcih vehicle really cost you more?


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## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (trebien)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trebien* »_*Why will the resale value of Touaregs be affected by a very small number of vehicles? How many people in the general public do you think are aware of the glitches that have been discussed on this board? And do you STILL think a majority of Touaregs are being plagued by these problems? Think again.* 
If you have to ask... then obviously you don't understand. 
Only a _few_ Firestone tires ruptured, out of the millions produced, and only a few Explorers rolled over... but it ruined Firestone as a company - it will be gone in a few years. And Ford had major problems selling the Explorer after that - even afer it was redesigned.
On average, the resale is not set by the "general public" but by car dealers and banks - institutions that use "bean counters" that research a vehicle's history to determine a value. If it is a problem-prone model, then the resale value suffers. It only takes a few models... Audi with the "drive through the window" transmission about 10 years ago, Ford Exploder, Grand Cherokee transmissions, etc. The media already got ahold of the tow-rating thing with the Touareg... these little things add up to create the public's perception of the Touareg.
Thank about it - with all those computers and gizmos and everything else... what is that going to cost when they have problems and the vehicle is out of warranty 3 or 4 years down the road? Talk about an expensive vehicle to maintain/repair after the warranty!
I'm not bashing the vehicle or any owners - but I would demand more for my $50K and be worried about these issues - important considerations for an educated purchase decision.
If a $50k Touareg has a crappy resale, and 3 years down the road you get only $25,000 for it, and you could get $35,000 for a 3 year old BMW or Lexus that initially cost you $55K, then whcih vehicle really cost you more?

Yes, you've made some good points here. However, do we really know if the $50k Touareg has a crappy resale value? I don't think VW has experienced anything like the Firestone fiasco or anything close to that....yet. If the Touareg suffers in resale I have a feeling it is related to that fact it's a Volkswagen as opposed to Lexus or BMW. The name sells for sure. VW certainly has their work cut out for them in terms of creating a "new" image for themselves related to quality and service. I for one have vested interest in the company and hope for the best. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (TCinOC)*

The Touareg will have the same resale issues the ML series did. Early ones ('98 and '99) had a perceived poorer build quality (although not really that many actual problems) and thus the ones made after a couple of years fared much better in resale.
Anyone who thinks that by waiting 6 months to buy a late 2004 or early 2005 they will get a much better car and it will have better resale versus an early 2004 car is kidding themselves. In 3 years from now there will be virtually no distinction between an early '04 or '05 in the buyer's mind. Of course, the '05 will be one model year newer and worth more just on that fact alone.


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## mml7 (Dec 3, 1999)

*Re: (trebien)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trebien* »_Only a _few_ Firestone tires ruptured, out of the millions produced, and only a few Explorers rolled over... but it ruined Firestone as a company - it will be gone in a few years. And Ford had major problems selling the Explorer after that - even afer it was redesigned.

Not trying argue your point, but the Ford Explorer is still #1 in sales (by far) of SUVs according to Autosite:
Ford Explorer
YTD Sales (through 9-03) 282,816
2002 Sales: 328,036
Chevrolet All New TrailBlazer
YTD Sales (through 9/03): 197,366 
2002 Sales:178,248


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (mml7)*

FRIDAY AM UPDATE:


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

FRIDAY AM UPDATE:
(sorry about the mistake in my previous post)
So, the singing and dancing continues with my TOUAREG only now I'm getting really pissed off.
So, the dealership tells me yesterday that switching my seat belt chime caused all the problems and that I'm going to have pay roughly $1,200 in diagnostic fees. The dealer tells me they are going to keep my vehicle overnight just to make sure everything is okay.
This morning, the service tech fires up my TOUAREG and tries to put the vehicle into "LOW" and that thing won't go into low..... so they say there is a problem (really?)
Here's the pisser, the dealer says because the vehicle didn't return any fault codes when this happened, they don't think it's related to my earlier problem.... even though it's the EXACT FREAKIN' REASON I brought the damn thing into the shop. So, the $1,200 charge stands right now. 
Christina Rogers from Volkswagen of America called this morning to follow up on the problems. She's the big cheese apparently for the Rocky Mountain Region and is the boss of the field reps for the factory. We basically talked about everything that has happened so far and she says she will call me back early next week. This conversation happened before I heard about the "LOW" problem the dealer had this morning, so needless to say, I callled her back and left a message for her to call me.
While this is going on, my dealership is scheduling an appointment for Tuesday to meet with the VW field rep. I can't wait for this.... this should be a "load" of fun.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_Here's the pisser, the dealer says because the vehicle didn't return any fault codes when this happened, they don't think it's related to my earlier problem.... even though it's the EXACT FREAKIN' REASON I brought the damn thing into the shop. So, the $1,200 charge stands right now.
Wow. That is one *&%$#@ awful dealer. Don't lose your cool, man, stick this out. Good luck.


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## TCinOC (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (sciencegeek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciencegeek* »_Wow. That is one *&%$#@ awful dealer. Don't lose your cool, man, stick this out. Good luck.









Exactly. Try to keep your composure and cool as much as possible. In particular if you get a chance to speak with the field rep. Hopefully this individual won't be a Pr!ck like the guy at your dealership.


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## bravocharlie (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

My suggestion:
When you have your meeting with the powers that be next Tuesday, keep you composure not matter what. Ask calm, rational questions, try not to be emotional.
For example, if they tell you that VAGing the seatbelt chime screws other programming up, ask them to show the other codes within the system that are now messed up. Or some documentation that describes the conflict. I'm sure they won't be able to do this.
It sounds like your problem is more related to a transmission controller problem. There is a wealth of information at:
http://www.ohiovw.com/files/to...d.pdf
You may want to read this section and try to understand the basics. This may help with your meeting next week.


_Modified by bravocharlie at 5:36 PM 1-23-2004_


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## PabloP (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: (bravocharlie)*

I thinkyou should just hire a lawyer.


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## Bill 2158 (Nov 7, 2003)

*Re: (silverandteak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverandteak* »_I thinkyou should just hire a lawyer.

I'll second that.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (AUDIPIMP)*








That's helpful.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (AUDIPIMP)*

TregingINCO, I don't know what to tell you. That is the exact reason why I did not buy from McDonalds Autmotive. Nothing but a bad feeling every-time I walked in there. I wish I could be of more help, but being over 1000 miles away does tend to have its limitations. The bottom line in that this is BS, and nothing in their quotes or estimates on repair reflected a possible $1200 charge. They a flat out ripping you off. Make them prove to you beyond a doubt that your settings cause the problems. I have the same mods done to mine, and I never have seen this problem. It has to be a bad controller, or even a bad t-case switch. When VW is telling you that they had no codes to read and there fore there is no problem, that just means the tech is too damn lazy to do some ACTUAL troubleshooting.
Don't waste your money on a lawyer. Do consider fighting them in small claims court. Do consider contacting the BBB and the states attorney offices if they don't come around.
Sorry about your problems. I hope to see them resolved upon my return the Denver.
Oh, and here's on for you and the T:










_Modified by EPilot at 5:40 PM 1-24-2004_


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (BRM10984)*

BUT WAIT.... THERE'S MORE!!!!!
So, I talked with me dealership this afternoon, they say they found that the device that shifts the Ctr. Diff from High into Low was defective (see earlier post) and they replaced it and now it's all working great. The dealership is still standing by its claim that changing the Seat Belt Chime is what caused all of the fault readings and that the differential problem they uncovered was not related to that.... so they still want my money.
I just find it very suspicious that when I tried to put my TOUAREG in LOW on Sunday in Moab, Utah and it failed and set off all kinds of warning lights.... that it was my fault because I turned off the seat belt chime.
BUT..... when the dealership tried to put the TOUAREG in LOW this morning... and it wouldn't do it.... this after they reset the codes to factory defaults.... then there was a defective part in the ctr. diff....... hmmmmmm!!!!







????


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

Wow, less than 24 hours after I predicted, it broke again and those idiots are saying the seatbelt chime broke your center diff? Let's repeat that again out loud; "the seatbelt chime broke the center differential". Sounds a bit ridiculous, doesn't it?
This lousy dealer needs to be exposed.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (AUDIPIMP)*

pimp, I don't *want* to know your name.


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## j2nh (Oct 15, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

TREGinginCO.
Bad day and a Bad Dealer. Moss-Magnuson act. Warrantty is not void unless they can prove that your modification (if you can call it that) would dissable your Diff/Tranny. Seatbelt chime to Diff is quite a strecth. 
Agree with everyone who said remain calm. As tempting as it is to blow at these guys the key is to be PERSISTANT.
What exactly cause the problem?
How is the chime related to the diff?
Why did the problem not happen after the alleged "modification" was made?
Why is there now a problem in an unrelated controller? 
Remind them that a lot of people are interested in this problem and are paying close attention. Your problem today could be ours tomorrow.
Document everything.
Good luck and keep us posted,


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## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (j2nh)*

Interesting info here, especially for someone who really likes the Touareg.
One thing about how car react during their first years of production: Its quite common for all cars to have faults during thier first year of production, and even though Touaregs were on sale in Europe for some months before arriving here, Im sure many of the elctronics are different, as far as engine management goes, and the like. I am not surprised with problems during the first year of production but I do agree that if VW wants play in the field, their cars have to hold up better. 2005 models should, in general, be less problematic, as it would be the second year of production.
Of note: If VW advertises the Touareg going off road, Car & Driver drone it off road, and it comes with truck tire (IIRC) then its meant to go off road. VW designed it with that in mind, as opposed to going with the norm and being just another "Soft-Roader". A jacked up Passat is vastly different from a Touareg








I would make a serious stand about the 1200 you apprently are supposed to pay. Especially after they experienced the same problem you did with the LOW shifting. You definitely should bring this up with the field rep, and remember, Warranties are all subjective, and its in how you read it. Either way, I think this should be a warranty covered operation.


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## DenverBill (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

I have not posted my thoughts about this debacle on Vortex as I don't want to give MacDonald a preview of the facts and laws that doom this strongarm tactic. Suffice it to say that the obvious facts of the case, particularly MacDonald's repairs of the center differential to solve the original complaints of the customer, coupled with the applicable federal and Colorado law, make MacDonalds pursuit of this settlement ludicrous. TREGinginCO, I'll e-mail you privately later, but you have the federal and state statutes on your side. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif PS: I am not an attorney; just an informed citizen. If TREG needs the assistance of an attorney, they will be lined up at his door for this opportunity.









_Modified by DenverBill at 12:31 AM 1-25-2004_


_Modified by DenverBill at 12:32 AM 1-25-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (DenverBill)*

Bill, if you are an attorney, thank you for helping TREGinginCO on this one. It is terrible to see someone get ripped off by the dealer like this.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (spockcat)*

Thanks so much for all of the support. I did pick up my TOUAREG this morning and it seems to be running fine.... but there's been an interesting change in my Seat Belt Chime since it's been turned back on.
It used to constantly ring.... without stopping until I put my seatbelt on. Now, the thing chimes about five times..... stops.... then about a minute later... chimes another five times. I dunno!
Anyhow... I just wanted to let those of you know that I appreciate the support and I won't have anything more to add unti after Tuesday.


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## Uriah (Nov 2, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

Just assure us that you didnt pay these heartless bastards any $1200 to get the car back.


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## joesturbo (Jul 19, 1999)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (Dominik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dominik* »_
As to your questions, how the seatbelt change can possibly cause the whole electrical system to wreak havoc: I don't know and neither do you or anybody who doesn't have VW's documentation about the Touareg's electronics.

Exactly - I have worked as a diagnostic engineer for several years and this is my experience. All european manufactures and some US go through a procedure call FMEA which determains what would happen if " this" occured - something like this should have been cought during this procedure. I have a hard time believing that VAG-Com software caused this occurance to happen. The number one reason is that the symptoms would occure ALL the time not intermintantly. If any of the ECU's on the bus are looking for a handshake from another ecu (milliseconds human time) it would through a fault code and warning light. There is no way a seatbelt code SHOULD stop the vehicle from running especially if the display language was changed. Also the display language is just a parameter and not changing the communication language - so the tech basically does not have the knowledge or the knowhow to determain what is wrong. This also may point out to that VWOA does not have the technicians in place also to do trouble shooting on thier products. Kinda Scarry - Keep the faith though someone somewhere with enough knowledge of the product will figure it out. 
Just as a side note it sounds like to me there may be a problem with the chassis flex and some of the wire harness getting chafed.


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## onoffroad (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*

If at all pay it by check and mark the check paid under protest.
That way you have some recourse. Did you admit VAGing the T-reg ?
Good luck


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (onoffroad)*

Glad you finally got it back! Could they maybe have installed some kind of new "module" that has an updated seatbelt chime? Just a guess...
BTW, why is this on my recent topics list _two times_ since it was brought back from the black hole?


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## irbrenda (Oct 9, 2000)

*Re: My TOUAREG Is Broken!!!!! (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_
It used to constantly ring.... without stopping until I put my seatbelt on. Now, the thing chimes about five times..... stops.... then about a minute later... chimes another five times. I dunno!


That's how my seatbelt chime behaves. I thought that was normal. Glad your Treg is back.


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## trebien (Jan 8, 2003)

I was going to bring up the Moss-Magnuson Act. The "burden of proof" is on the dealer to PROVE that your "modification" caused the problem.... They have to directly prove it.
(As far as the resale on the Explorer, you will notice that historically, in a time when SUVs were flying out the dealerships, the Explorer had a huge deficit for a while, and Ford had to start offering major incentives on it to get the sales back up - when other SUVs did not have to offer these incentives. Of course, now... about everything has incentives.)


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (trebien)*

I HAVE GREAT NEWS.....
I will have all the details in a new thread called: "PROBLEM SOLVED: VWoA KUDOS"


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_I HAVE GREAT NEWS.....
I will have all the details in a new thread called: "PROBLEM SOLVED: VWoA KUDOS"

Link to it here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1212472


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## zonevwgti (Feb 5, 2004)

*Re: (TCinOC)*

This guy screws with his electrical system and then blames VW? Whatever!


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (zonevwgti)*

Look pal, I didn't SCREW WITH THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM, I simply had a switch flipped that VW incorporates into the TOUAREG.
If you read a little more, you'd have a little more information before you shot your mouth off!


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (zonevwgti)*

And more importantly, it was the VW dealer that was blaming him without understanding what the real problem was. This VW dealer was plain ol' lazy in their diagnosis and handling of the situation.
TreginginCO, we will have to meet up for







's soon so I can get the full story of what happened when I was gone. Besides, it always sounds better after a few
























_Modified by aircooled at 10:34 PM 2-9-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (zonevwgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zonevwgti* »_This guy screws with his electrical system and then blames VW? Whatever!

Actually if you read his other post, VW exonerated him. It was his dealer blaming him. If you want to post a flame, please read the entire post and it's followup otherwise you look like a total ***.


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## terps4 (Jan 14, 2004)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
If you want to post a flame, please read the entire post and it's followup otherwise you look like a total ***.

...or a troll in a GTI.


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## DenverBill (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: (aircooled)*

I'm always up for





















; may just skip the laptop this time


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## alexander6 (Feb 8, 2004)

*Re: (spockcat)*

can you tell me the whole procedure to activate the seat belt warning chimes? thanks


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## bravocharlie (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (alexander6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alexander6* »_can you tell me the whole procedure to activate the seat belt warning chimes? thanks

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/touareg.html


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