# lean off idle...



## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

randomly this code started coming up, car runs fine though, seems strange
anyone have any idea?

1 Fault Found:
008567 - Bank 1; System Too Lean off Idle 
P2177 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 4
Mileage: 54729 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 12:03:25
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 3107 /min
Load: 16.5 %
Speed: 61.0 km/h
Temperature: 83.0°C
Temperature: 15.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1020.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V

Readiness: 0000 0000


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: lean off idle... (AlianomkV)*

what kind of intake do you have? if one at all


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

I'm stg2+ with meth. neuspeed intake with bsh dv setup


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

Check for intake leaks


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

what do you mean intake leak. before or after maf


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

*Re: (AlianomkV)*

by intake, i mean everything after the turbo.


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: (AlianomkV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlianomkV* »_I'm stg2+ with meth. neuspeed intake with bsh dv setup

i think the BSH DV is the problem.
Do you have a vagcom, if so, check block 032 in ENGINE. it is your LTFT. it should be less then 10%.
I know for a fact that the 1st batch of BSH DV elbows had this isse since to poor MAF placement.
report back with your LTFT (engine does not even need to be turned on)


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: (skateboy918)*

-0.6 % Lambda (Idle) Self-Adaptation
21.5 % Lambda (Partial) Self-Adaptation
this is what it came up with, good or bad?

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Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: (AlianomkV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlianomkV* »_ -0.6 % Lambda (Idle) Self-Adaptation
21.5 % Lambda (Partial) Self-Adaptation
this is what it came up with, good or bad?

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










*yes the BSH DV IS YOUR PROBLEM*
You should call them and tell them that your LTFT is 21.5% b/c of their DV elbow and they will send you a new one (hopefully)
Both values should be below 10%. Mine is usually around 3% and i have a neuspeed intake


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

ok, yeah i have the neuspeed intake as well, but with there other section and there dv etc..
thanks for the help, Ill give them a call.


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## wazzap1101 (May 1, 2009)

*Re: (skateboy918)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skateboy918* »_
*yes the BSH DV IS YOUR PROBLEM*
You should call them and tell them that your LTFT is 21.5% b/c of their DV elbow and they will send you a new one (hopefully)
Both values should be below 10%. Mine is usually around 3% and i have a neuspeed intake

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif good work


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

lol, good work so far








we'll see if this is the actual problem, im hoping he's right. 
But thank you for the help, and quick responses.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: (AlianomkV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlianomkV* »_ -0.6 % Lambda (Idle) Self-Adaptation
21.5 % Lambda (Partial) Self-Adaptation


I have a good friend who was in the same boat......car has been somewhat fixed, think there is still a slight issue. REVO II+ with Forge DV. His trims were 2.1% IDLE.....22.7% PARTIAL. 
Basically with his car, found that the car was so lean the front O2 would not respond quick enough on accel, caused car to dump gas(bad MPG). I swapped the front O2 as well as new spark plugs and values dropped to 12.4%. At the same time, wanted to go ahead and clean his intake valves and installed new injectors/seals. 
When all was said and done, only got the value down to the low 12%.......think the DV could use a rebuild on his and if you ahve a relocated DV with the o-rings on the inside, then YES, as mentioned.....need to replace the o-rings and relubricate. I have to do my EuroJet DV every 5K or so to make sure it's optimal.
Keep us in the loop as to what you find, very few incidents on FSI engines going lean.....usually rich from dumping fuel past HPFP seals








-J. Hines
**One other thing to check is the MAF sensor, not as likely a fault as a leak in charge system, but still a possiblity. If all else fails, swap with a good car and drive 15+ miles, do not clear fault! And then recheck vaues to see if they are coming down on the PARTIAL %.**


_Modified by jhines_06gli at 10:48 PM 11-12-2009_


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: (jhines_06gli)*

i follow what your saying but this is a documented case with the BSH DV kit (the elbow itself) having the wrong MAF placement causing the MAF to read the incorrect air flow causing the high fuel trim and the code


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: (skateboy918)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skateboy918* »_i follow what your saying but this is a documented case with the BSH DV kit (the elbow itself) having the wrong MAF placement causing the MAF to read the incorrect air flow causing the high fuel trim and the code

True.....Ive read that. In our case, this is the first of our cars(5 in club almost identical) that has thrown a lean fault. Happened a few weeks after installing the EuroJet catchcan setup and only days after installing a A3 throttle pipe to delete the noise pipe. Wierd, hopefully coincidental, but we'll see. I have to get back up with him and run some logs and see how the values have changed in a week.
-J. Hines


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

I also did just install the ej catch can / valve cover a few weeks ago, and now this happened randomly.


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

do you think it's possible that it's doing this cause where leaving the one side of the pcv section out to the atmosphere? just a thought


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (AlianomkV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlianomkV* »_ -0.6 % Lambda (Idle) Self-Adaptation
21.5 % Lambda (Partial) Self-Adaptation
this is what it came up with, good or bad?

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










If those are your fuel trims chances are you have a leak between the MAF and the turbo inlet. Since you have rerouted DV it could be something related to that as well.
It is not a leak after the throttle body or your idle trims would be lean and your off idle trims normal or more normal. 
Basically at idle the vacuum is not strong enough to suck in air from whatever the leak is. However at part throttle when the turbo is spooling more and there is more demand for airflow even out of boost air is bypassing the MAF and being sucked into the intake without being metered properly.


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

The problem is the MAF placement in the elbow. Contact BSH and they will ship you a new elbow. I had issues worse than yours. I had 25% LTFT and CELs every 10 miles. New elbow fixed all problems.


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

k thanks chris, gotcha. ill do a leak down test and try and find where the problem is.
but also, do you think it has anything to do with the ej catch can/ valve cover setup, i mean i know more then 1 person has this, and i know that whoever does have it is leaving the 1 side of the pcv out to atmosphere. Are they having this problem?.. because it does seem pretty awkward that when I did that setup, a few drives later suddenly i had this problem, but before i had done it.. i never had a lean off idle issue


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: (staulkor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *staulkor* »_The problem is the MAF placement in the elbow. Contact BSH and they will ship you a new elbow. I had issues worse than yours. I had 25% LTFT and CELs every 10 miles. New elbow fixed all problems.

ok, but my question is, can this randomly be the problem out of nowhere?.. i mean its not like the setup is brand new, ive had it for more then a few months now. but i guess i will contact bsh and check up with them also


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: (AlianomkV)*

contact BSH first. Maybe you didn't rev the car past a certain point for awhile and then you finally redlined it one day causing the LTFT to go higher (leaner) to the point that trigger the code.
This is a document case with the BSH DV elbow, here is at least 1 thread:
http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/...t+bsh


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

*Re: (AlianomkV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlianomkV* »_
ok, but my question is, can this randomly be the problem out of nowhere?.. i mean its not like the setup is brand new, ive had it for more then a few months now. but i guess i will contact bsh and check up with them also

Did you have the set-up last winter? With cooler temps, the car is seeing denser air coming through the intake...thus, the issues may just now be presenting themselves. As others have mentioned, contact Phill and he'll send you a replacement MAF elbow. Install the new piece, give the car a couple of days to readapt (or unplug the battery) and relog block 32 for the new LTFT values. If you are still out of spec, then begin to look for the leak. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

ok so thanks to someone i was talking to earlier, made me aware that when i did my valve cover install.. i left the "rear pcv" open, and not plugged or anything, since there isnt any place to attach it to the valve cover. I guess i just wasnt thinking. anyway, i closed it off.. drove the car around a little, and re checked my LTFT.. 
-1.9 % Lambda (Idle) Self-Adaptation
16.8 % Lambda (Partial) Self-Adaptation
opinions anyone.


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## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

If the turbo inlet connection where the previously attached silver rear crankcase breather hose was left open...then yes, that would definitely throw your LFTF trims off. That is a substantial leak post MAF sensor. Kind of suprised the engine ever ran (ie. didn't stall out).


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (AlianomkV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlianomkV* »_ok so thanks to someone i was talking to earlier, made me aware that when i did my valve cover install.. i left the "rear pcv" open, and not plugged or anything, since there isnt any place to attach it to the valve cover. I guess i just wasnt thinking. anyway, i closed it off.. drove the car around a little, and re checked my LTFT.. 
-1.9 % Lambda (Idle) Self-Adaptation
16.8 % Lambda (Partial) Self-Adaptation
opinions anyone.

Whoa, yeah... huge hole in the intake after the MAF before the turbo. Your sucking in unmetered air with that hole there. Plug it, clear codes. Check it again after a day or so.


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Whoa, yeah... huge hole in the intake after the MAF before the turbo. Your sucking in unmetered air with that hole there. Plug it, clear codes. Check it again after a day or so.


yeah just did that.. hopefully its good now


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (AlianomkV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlianomkV* »_
yeah just did that.. hopefully its good now

did you even look at this thread to see if your elbow is like the one in this thread? anything above 5% to me is too high. other people might say anything above 10%
http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/...t+bsh


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

yes i did look into that thread. i was speaking to phill, he did tell me i had the older version but to fix the other problem 1st and we'll speak more about what to do with the elbow. process of elimination


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (AlianomkV)*

Couldn't a PCV valve issue cause somewhat of the same symptoms? The early FSI engines had the metal pipe running from the back of the valve cover down into "fresh" side of turbo w/o the valve in it. Just curious what the difference the valve would make?? I know that usually when this valve goes bad in the newer FSI, we see oil residue where the DV bolts up and start to get some excess oil in the intercooler piping.
Seeing how some of you guys are reporting having a 32 value of less than 5% on the Partial(off idle).......maybe I have a slight leak developing on my own car. I have been sitting at 8.9%-10.2% for as long as I can remmeber. Another car that I have been battling this fault with is at a steady 18%, still too high for comfort. Both are 2006 cars as well(the older style PCV tube). Guess I'll start there and see where that leads me and if I get any changes.

All leaks post-MAF, yet pre-Throttlebody have been looked into and nothing. So basically, it's nothing OBVIOUS and just something making a problem off idle(when that vale is operating). Guess I'll keep you updated and get a pipe ordered next week for my car..see if it brings my values down any.








-J. Hines


_Modified by jhines_06gli at 6:36 PM 11-15-2009_


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (AlianomkV)*

i dont know why we keep on talking about this, the problem is clearly the BSH elbow MAF placement (read the golfmkv.com thread)
Just get the new elbow and if your problem does not go away, i will give you $1,000,000 for me being wrong.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (skateboy918)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skateboy918* »_
Just get the new elbow and if your problem does not go away, i will give you $1,000,000 for me being wrong.









I am bringing the topic up b/c the car at hand in my situation is a 2006 GTI with a Neuspeed intake.....readings are -0.9% and 18.3%. So there is no BSH intake in question. All this happened to his car a few weeks after installing the EuroJet catchcan and only 2 days after installing the A3 throttle pipe to get rid of the noise pipe. So that is what I'm dealing with
-J. Hines


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## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (skateboy918)*

problem is solved. it wasn't anything to do with elbow. can I have 1,000,000 dollars?


_Quote, originally posted by *skateboy918* »_i dont know why we keep on talking about this, the problem is clearly the BSH elbow MAF placement (read the golfmkv.com thread)
Just get the new elbow and if your problem does not go away, i will give you $1,000,000 for me being wrong.


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## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (AlianomkV)*

have you logged your LTFT again? the code might have went away but your fuel trim can still be high (10%+)


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## xxmatixx (Sep 18, 2016)

*Lean off idle*



AlianomkV said:


> problem is solved. it wasn't anything to do with elbow. can I have 1,000,000 dollars?
> 
> 
> _Quote, originally posted by *skateboy918* »_i dont know why we keep on talking about this, the problem is clearly the BSH elbow MAF placement (read the golfmkv.com thread)
> Just get the new elbow and if your problem does not go away, i will give you $1,000,000 for me being wrong.


Hey
I need your help. I'm audi a4 b7 2.0 TFSI. The problem I have with the error p2177. Sprawdziełm everything in the car and I have no idea what might be causing this error.
I saw in the subject line of the message that you handled the problem.
Can you prompt me something on this. And what's with that elbow. How to check it?
The parameters have the idle adaptation 4% partial adaptation 22%.
I look forward to your prompt reply.
Thank you in advance .


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