# Venting...



## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

How is it that the 2-series already has an order guide?

http://www.2series.org/forum/new-20...m/4682-bmw-2-series-us-pricing-announced.html


Is there anybody working at audiusa!!!!

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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I'm convinced they have secretly placed all of us in a glass dome and are watching us from above, calculating each (lack of a) move to see just how much it will take to launch us into orbit.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

I would suspect that part of the issue has to do with capacity issues in Hungary: within the last week, UK deliveries of the A3 sedan were pushed back 4 weeks. My understanding from a dealer friend in Spain is that the situation is the same there - delays of between 4-6 weeks for orders due to the popularity of the model.


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## JOES1.8T (Sep 8, 2003)

Correct me if I am wrong, but at the begining of the A3 Sedan planning, wasn't the intent of the sedan to be for the U.S. market only given AoA was fighting for it when home office was reluctant? I could have sworn I read that a while back, either way if so, other countries saw it and wanted it as well. Must be a smoking hot product if thats the case.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

JOES1.8T said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but at the begining of the A3 Sedan planning, wasn't the intent of the sedan to be for the U.S. market only given AoA was fighting for it when home office was reluctant? I could have sworn I read that a while back, either way if so, other countries saw it and wanted it as well. Must be a smoking hot product if thats the case.


Not US-only; it was designed for the US and Chinese markets. They seem to have China's supply figured out by building for that market in that country. That leaves a US car built in a European factory.

So what do they do? They roll it out to the whole of Europe before supplying the US. Yes, Travis- I know why they did it that way. 

... that doesn't make it the correct decision, though I know they made the best decision they could, at the time it was made, with the facts they had.

I suspect we're going to be met with delays that effectively put the S3 into early 2015 for any real supply. Unless they substantially increase their throughput or tell the European market to suck it up and buy the hatchback and sportback instead, I think we're about screwed. Of course, there's the very remote possibility that they know they'll be through the backlog by the time they get to supplying the US, but... I'm not hopeful.

For ****'s sake, I could have bought a Cayman S when I first started looking and put a good two years on it while waiting for this car. That may have been enough to scratch my P-car itch for a while.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> I would suspect that part of the issue has to do with capacity issues in Hungary: within the last week, UK deliveries of the A3 sedan were pushed back 4 weeks. My understanding from a dealer friend in Spain is that the situation is the same there - delays of between 4-6 weeks for orders due to the popularity of the model.


Is it still supplier capacity issues, or is it now that the factory just cannot keep up with demand?


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Bad excuses. This car has been in the planning stages for ages, shown to us for ages. So they can't build enough, why is that stopping an order guide from hitting the U.S., yeah right it is not, excuse after excuse after excuse. You guys waiting on S3's I feel bad for (I personally would not wait another year, there are a lot of great cars when your budget is hitting 50G, it is not like you are waiting on Ferrari as your 3rd car), heck at this point I do not even have confidence that the quattro will be available in the spring. That 2013 Acura TL 6sp manual tech package SH-AWD with low miles is looking better everyday, Audi A4, amongst other cars...heck even the Mercedes CLA 4matic is on the order guide for them.

B.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

There's just nothing else I want. I'd probably just go ahead and pick up a Q5 to replace the Rabbit if it weren't for the S3 coming.

... or get really stupid and graft an .:R32 Haldex into my GLI.


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## JOES1.8T (Sep 8, 2003)

AoA is dragging feet on providing information unless a competitor puts them in a position to make something happen (i.e. MB CLA pricing). I am no in rush to get the car and will be one of those who wait for second year production models to start rolling out; I am aiming for a 2016 MY and yeah someone at Audi needs to get fired. :laugh:


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

JOES1.8T said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but at the begining of the A3 Sedan planning, wasn't the intent of the sedan to be for the U.S. market only given AoA was fighting for it when home office was reluctant? I could have sworn I read that a while back, either way if so, other countries saw it and wanted it as well. Must be a smoking hot product if thats the case.


My understanding is that Audi of America lobbied heavily for a sedan variant of the A3 many moons ago during the planning stages of the MQB 8V A3. Combined with the Chinese preference for sedans of hatches there was a strong enough business case for the bespoke notchback. It was never intended to be US only, but the US was expected to be one of the primary markets.

I think what Audi underestimated was the resurgence of interest in small sedans in continental Europe. The sedan has proven to be immensely popular in the UK, Spain, Germany and France. My guess is that the Christmas holidays in conjunction with already high demand are the driving factors behind the latest delay. Whether this is due to suppliers to a backlog in assembly is anyones' guess.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

IMO, it's turning into a problem for Audi more then anything...

The longer they wait, the more competition starts popping up. With the release of the 2015 C-Class, damn, if it weren't for the tablet install they ripped off from a kid and his Civic, and small exterior styling gripes I personally have, that is a great car...and 250 lbs lighter which is a step in the right direction.

Now you have the B9 Audi A4 / S4...which might be delayed? and the paperwork starts piling up because execution is not working well in Audi USA...

Regardless, the biggest problem is I think BMW just simply has been more quiet about the next 2-series then Audi was with the A3, where Audi wanted / needed more attention for the A3 then BMW did for the new 2-series.

In all seriousness though, if the 2-series Gran Coupe -> 235i comes before I can get my hands on a S3, I'm sorry, but will likely be grabbing that in a heart beat.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Rudy_H said:


> IMO, it's turning into a problem for Audi more then anything...
> 
> The longer they wait, the more competition starts popping up. With the release of the 2015 C-Class, damn, if it weren't for the tablet install they ripped off from a kid and his Civic, and small exterior styling gripes I personally have, that is a great car...and 250 lbs lighter which is a step in the right direction.
> 
> ...


I agree completely.

In my case, my current car is perfectly fine and I don't need to get rid of it in any sort of hurry. I want the S3 but if Audi can't get it here and something else turns my head...I'm gone.


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## LeMans (Dec 8, 2010)

Motown_Dub said:


> I agree completely.
> 
> In my case, my current car is perfectly fine and I don't need to get rid of it in any sort of hurry. I want the S3 but if Audi can't get it here and something else turns my head...I'm gone.


This. The S4 has been completely reasonable to me and I don't need to dump her. I'm willing to wait, but if something else catches my eye? You snooze, you lose S3.


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

Be patient all good things come to those who wait.


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## Chuck2001 (Aug 12, 2011)

Just relax

Wait & see.

No need to worry right now, too early...


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

I dunno how BMW does it. Another good looking vehicle, I must say. So is the 2 series to compete against the likely mystery A3 coupe that still hasn't been revealed?


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

From Audi's perspective I can't see a real benefit of issuing order guides and pricing 5-6 months before cars start arriving at dealerships. Seems like it locks them into specs/packages/pricing when few are really going to buy a vehicle during this period.

By far, most won't consider buying a car they haven't driven.

I don't see why they couldn't have sent the first sedans to N. America.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

dmorrow said:


> From Audi's perspective I can't see a real benefit of issuing order guides and pricing 5-6 months before cars start arriving at dealerships. Seems like it locks them into specs/packages/pricing when few are really going to buy a vehicle during this period.
> 
> By far, most won't consider buying a car they haven't driven.
> 
> I don't see why they couldn't have sent the first sedans to N. America.


As I understand it we Are supposed to be seeing stuff in March so that is closer to 3 months then 6. Secondly, then why do it for Canada? Thirdly, then Audi releasing the 29,900 price goes against what you said. They basically dipped their toes in the big pool then decided to swim in the little pool. Meanwhile their competitors are gobbling up clients. Clearly, Audi felt the pinch when they released the starting price hoping to hold off potential buyers from jumping ship. Heck just read their google campaign. The impression I get is they don't have their **** together nor their strategy... This is just my impression, maybe they have some evil genius plan, but GD it is taking long. Add up the time they first showed the first model, I mean we are talking a 4 door sedan not some 500 hp super car, yes beginning of 2011. Now we are talking hopefully 3/2014. That is a long time for this type of vehicle.


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## anti suv (Sep 26, 2013)

Rudy_H said:


> In all seriousness though, if the 2-series Gran Coupe -> 235i comes before I can get my hands on a S3, I'm sorry, but will likely be grabbing that in a heart beat.


I agree. I'm still pretty dead set on a S3 and Audi is in no danger of losing me to the Merc CLA, but a 235i Gran Coupe could sway me towards a bmw.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

BrutusA3 said:


> As I understand it we Are supposed to be seeing stuff in March so that is closer to 3 months then 6. Secondly, then why do it for Canada? Thirdly, then Audi releasing the 29,900 price goes against what you said. They basically dipped their toes in the big pool then decided to swim in the little pool. Meanwhile their competitors are gobbling up clients. Clearly, Audi felt the pinch when they released the starting price hoping to hold off potential buyers from jumping ship. Heck just read their google campaign. The impression I get is they don't have their **** together nor their strategy... This is just my impression, maybe they have some evil genius plan, but GD it is taking long. Add up the time they first showed the first model, I mean we are talking a 4 door sedan not some 500 hp super car, yes beginning of 2011. Now we are talking hopefully 3/2014. That is a long time for this type of vehicle.


I say almost no chance of March, especially if this is widely available and not limited. With most on this site so specific on what they want, getting exactly what you want could take much longer anyway. Even if they show up in March I can't see a difference in final sales with complete specs and pricing in mid December or mid January. 

Only guess on Canada was to grab headlines and judge acceptance. Basically they buy about 20% what the U.S. does, and why not release pricing separately? Their pricing comes out, we all talk about it, then wait.

As for the $29,900, it grabbed headlines but without telling us exactly what we are getting for this price. Then sometime later they announce full pricing and specs again get more headlines. No point in doing all of it at once or too far before the cars show up.

My guess is full pricing at Detroit show but this is just a guess. Really all speculation is just a guess and I think the best thing for Audi is to just keep everyone as interested as possible until the cars show up.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

02GOLFGTI1.8T said:


> How is it that the 2-series already has an order guide?
> 
> http://www.2series.org/forum/new-20...m/4682-bmw-2-series-us-pricing-announced.html
> 
> ...


wasn't a case made that first comes the rest, then come the best. Or that Audi is waiting for everybody else to come out first, then they will learn from all their mistakes? Or was it that the tremendous sales of the CL means this segment is ripe for mega growth, maybe Audi is just waiting for BMW, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick to enter the market first.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

LWNY said:


> ... maybe Audi is just waiting for BMW, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick to enter the market first.


Yikes. Let's not give them any ideas.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

I agree at this point I assume Detroit is when they announce build and stuff. I still expect to see product early Spring so end of March/sometime in April, they have taken this long, this need to get ball rolling.


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

LWNY said:


> wasn't a case made that first comes the rest, then come the best. Or that Audi is waiting for everybody else to come out first, then they will learn from all their mistakes? Or was it that the tremendous sales of the CL means this segment is ripe for mega growth, maybe Audi is just waiting for BMW, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick to enter the market first.


Very smart Audi NOT, let everyone get a leg up and loose market share to the likes of gm and f**d. Not good.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> ... that doesn't make it the correct decision, though I know they made the best decision they could, at the time it was made, with the facts they had.


It is disturbing to me that any company would not move heaven and earth to bring their best new product to its most profitable region ahead of its competitors. Anything short of this is not the "best decision" in my mind. (I'll admit to being a 'glass half-empty' sort of fellow.)


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

BrutusA3 said:


> As I understand it we Are supposed to be seeing stuff in March so that is closer to 3 months then 6. Secondly, then why do it for Canada? Thirdly, then Audi releasing the 29,900 price goes against what you said. They basically dipped their toes in the big pool then decided to swim in the little pool. Meanwhile their competitors are gobbling up clients. Clearly, Audi felt the pinch when they released the starting price hoping to hold off potential buyers from jumping ship. Heck just read their google campaign. The impression I get is they don't have their **** together nor their strategy... This is just my impression, maybe they have some evil genius plan, but GD it is taking long. Add up the time they first showed the first model, I mean we are talking a 4 door sedan not some 500 hp super car, yes beginning of 2011. Now we are talking hopefully 3/2014. That is a long time for this type of vehicle.


Preach it Brutus. "do not have their *** together" is putting it kindly IMO.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

LWNY said:


> wasn't a case made that first comes the rest, then come the best. Or that Audi is waiting for everybody else to come out first, then they will learn from all their mistakes? Or was it that the tremendous sales of the CL means this segment is ripe for mega growth, maybe Audi is just waiting for BMW, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick to enter the market first.


"Smart follower" is the last desperate strategy for a company that otherwsie can't get its s**t together enough to be first.

By being second or last you have NO CHOICE but to offer more for less. Whereas if they had been first, Audi could have set the market and forced others to meet them. I don't even blame AoA, they are just the local puppets holding the bag full of s**t VWAG hands to them. 

VAWG to AoA - "Hey guys, keep growing US sales in ways we've never experienced before. What? No you can't have the designed-for-US segement-leading sedan before MB. Nope, sorry, you can't have it before BMW either, we've still got our heads in our asses worrying about amateur-level supply chain issues extending from our own lack of understanding of global demand and idiotically trying to keep up in the least profitable regions. KTHXBAI"


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## JOES1.8T (Sep 8, 2003)

Well I spotted another A3 Sedan today on the way home, and of course I was unable to snap a shot in time given we were both mobile in congested traffic. I couldn't tell if it was a 1.8T or 1.4T given it only said TFSI on the back. I want to say the color was Daytona Grey, but boy was that thing a beaut. The lights at night are pretty bright and truly stand out and this particular model didn't have a panorama roof either. Seeing it in person does truly justify the desire to want it NOW so I can see the frustration among members in this thread disappointed on lack of information we are receiving from AoA.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

JOES1.8T said:


> Seeing it in person does truly justify the desire to want it NOW so I can see the frustration among members in this thread disappointed on lack of information we are receiving from AoA.


I can't relate to the on-road presence of the car, but I suspect it will be magnificent. To me, any of the recent "product improvement" Audis with the updated LED DRLs have a very striking presence.

What I saw on the show floor was quite beautiful, at least.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Dan Halen said:


> I can't relate to the on-road presence of the car, but I suspect it will be magnificent. To me, any of the recent "product improvement" Audis with the updated LED DRLs have a very striking presence.
> 
> What I saw on the show floor was quite beautiful, at least.


I'm sure she will be beautiful, Audi needs to be careful about the supply of the car. The competition is heating up and whether they believe it or not, if the 2 series is widely available before this car is, they will suffer.

Acura just announced the TLX concept for Detroit it could be a competitor as well.

Usually the market for cars in this price/performance bracket have to scratch the itch...not wait and guess for months while other models are introduced before it.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Motown_Dub said:


> I'm sure she will be beautiful, *Audi needs to be careful about the supply of the car*. The competition is heating up and whether they believe it or not, if the 2 series is widely available before this car is, they will suffer.
> 
> Acura just announced the TLX concept for Detroit it could be a competitor as well.
> 
> Usually the market for cars in this price/performance bracket have to scratch the itch...not wait and guess for months while other models are introduced before it.


That's what I keep rethinking. I have confidence that the protracted delay in getting the car to the US has something to do with planned capacity increases sometime in 2014 in Györ. Or, put another way, it's nothing short of inexcusable if they have delayed the car this long and _still_ cannot get a consistent supply to our market once we do finally get it. I'm sort of refusing to believe the latter scenario could occur, really. I know... when they fail hard, I'll fall hard.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Dan Halen said:


> That's what I keep rethinking. I have confidence that the protracted delay in getting the car to the US has something to do with planned capacity increases sometime in 2014 in Györ. Or, put another way, it's nothing short of inexcusable if they have delayed the car this long and _still_ cannot get a consistent supply to our market once we do finally get it. I'm sort of refusing to believe the latter scenario could occur, really. I know... when they fail hard, I'll fall hard.


I can tell you I won't tolerate the "We only have one of these at 5K above MSRP" B.S. A constrained supply usually means rape by dealers, which could push this car off my radar.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Motown_Dub said:


> I can tell you I won't tolerate the "We only have one of these at 5K above MSRP" B.S. A constrained supply usually means rape by dealers, which could push this car off my radar.


Agreed: see subaru BRZ


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Motown_Dub said:


> I can tell you I won't tolerate the "We only have one of these at 5K above MSRP" B.S. A constrained supply usually means rape by dealers, which could push this car off my radar.


This, combined with plenty of other cars already coming into the picture. I'm starting to check this forum less and less. (This means maybe 2 times a week versus everyday, but still, it's kind of sad as I was really excited at the beginning of the A3/S3's announcements.) 

These are hard statements to say below but I would like to try and answer them to rationalize this car... (Please don't take offense, I have no plan to start flame wars.)


No S3 Sportback

Is this the same car as a Golf R that will be 10k less (at least) and considering it's a style that I prefer due to hatch-space and flatbed style methodologies? (The S3 Sedan pretty much will force a rack purchase essentially.)

No US Pricing still.

No RS3 Details (Yes, I know this might come later) (I could easily justify this car and it's purchase in either guise. Sportback or Sedan. Preferably a Sportback)

Color Options are Red, Dark Blue and 50 shades of Gray. (A cool bright color besides White would be nice...)

Do I really want to spend 50k on a 2.0T with a FWD biased Haldex? (I can "kind of" justify this because of the Fuel Consumption versus Power Output, etc.)

A BMW M235i will be 55k with a 6cyl.Turbo - Loaded

A CLA45 is already here essentially and comes with the exact same features, is slightly more money but also has 355hp. (Yes the dash monitor is silly, but it's the only issue I have with the car. You must see this car in person...it's rather stunning. I would be gone by now if the Hatchback version was here in the US.)

The new Mustang GT will eat this car and will include a host of options that are much more intriguing from a pricing, performance and functionality aspect. (Yes, I understand it's a slightly different class and it's not "German" (I've owned German vehicles for 15 years now.)

That Volvo Polestar V60 I brought up already and it comes in a similar color to what I consider the best color ever made. (Mexico Blue - It's a Porsche Thing ) (Are Audi Exclusive Colors going to be an option here?)

Long term reliability (cost) versus other cars at this price range? (Yes, I'm aware of the track record the cars companies mentioned above have. I just want to know that if I plunk down this kind of money, it will last for 5-10 years or preferably longer. I'm not expecting to worry about residual value later, this is an indelibility.)

The S3 looks like an A3 Essentially. (Yes, I'm making this assumption, No I haven't seen the cars side by side up-close.)

Time Delay on product release is concerning.

Audi Marketing still going crazy over the A6/A7/A8 and all the models that cost $80k+ doesn't really appeal to the larger segment of buyers. Is this something that Audi will ever change? e.g. It feels like the S3/RS3 campaign will be an after thought when the masses buy into the A3 Sedan Base Model...


Thanks for reading, sorry for the rant...


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## chiphead (May 12, 2011)

I'm wondering how much Johan de Nysschen's departure had an impact on the apparent lack of planning on AOA's part.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

Dan Halen said:


> Yikes. Let's not give them any ideas.


And you know how fast those Toyhondssan companies could introduce a model in similar price range. They got a boat load of JDM cars they could put a Lexfinitcura badge on.


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## dogbolter (Feb 28, 2010)

djdub said:


> Audi Marketing still going crazy over the A6/A7/A8 and all the models that cost $80k+ doesn't really appeal to the larger segment of buyers. Is this something that Audi will ever change? e.g. It feels like the S3/RS3 campaign will be an after thought when the masses buy into the A3 Sedan Base Model...




This! We seem to get every version of these luxo-barge, but bugger all in the size we want. I assume Audio must sell shed loads of them, but I don't see many on the road


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

It's relative. They've moved almost 20,000 A6 variants, 7,500 A7 variants, and 5,600 A8 variants thru November- certainly not overtaking the Camry, but impressive against the Audi norms. Throw in the Q7, and those ranges represent 43% of the YTD volume gains over the entire brand.

http://fourtitude.com/news/Audi_New...sales-record-month-spare-november-2013-gains/

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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

Makes sense. :thumbup:


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## cjmoy (Aug 23, 2000)

AoA really needs to just stop making product announcements until they are ready to deliver. Unlike MB and BMW, the US is still an afterthought to Audi. It would be hilarious if the US gets the 2-series Gran Coupe before the A3.

I've been waiting for an A4 TDI for years and finally gave up and bought a BMW 335d in 2012. I'm glad I did or else I would still be waiting.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

To be completely honest, all the delays and Audi's lackadaisical attitude have me looking at other cars like the BMW M3/M4, ATS-V, Corvette etc.

I'm not saying I'm giving up on the S3/RS3 but the would really need to impress me to pull me back in. With the rate its going I don't think we'll hear anything about the RS3 till 2015 with no guarantee that it'll even come to the US.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

What will impress at this point, a sub-45K s3 and/or delivery before next fall?


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## Zorro83 (Sep 10, 2011)

A sub $45K S3 is guaranteed for the US as ours (Canada's) is priced at $44k.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Only delivery before fall will impress me. I'm within an inch of contacting Scott Keogh directly as Audi's presence on G+ leaves a lot to be desired, and they are disseminating conflicting info on the S3 release date.

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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

What will impress me is if the S3 got glowing reviews from all the US automotive magazines and apparently they are going to announce the A3/S3 during the superbowl. If things went into overdrive after that and we see the cars landing in our shore shortly thereafter that'll impress me as well and show me that the Audi is taking the US seriously. I'm actually more into the RS3 than the S3 but if the S3 drives well then that'll give me a good indication of how the RS3 will drive.

I'm pretty skeptical that'll happen though. I mean look at BMW with their M3/M4. They released a prototype, automotive press got to ride in them, soon after released official pics, now a configurator is up and they'll officially unveil the cars in Detroit. That is how you're supposed to release a car!


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## Tcardio (Mar 19, 2009)

let's face it...if audi briught the sportback with a 2.5 turbo, it would kick the crap out of the owner company and they couldn't keep up with demand. nothing like a 400 
+ grocery getter. say goodbye to the gti boys. audi execs get kicked in the teeth by vw everyday. hell, bring the whole european audi line here and see vw get it's ass handed to them. fight the power boys


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

A $50,000+ A3 isn't much more than an Audi fanboi's wet dream. Most of the general market would play the “for 50% less, I can get 80% of the car in the GTI" option.

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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

An update on German delivery times for the A3 sedan: they are now running at 5 months from the date of order.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

So they just need to let us start ordering S3s in March. :laugh:

Do you have any indication of potential increases in factory and/or supplier capacity in the near term, or is this protracted wait here to stay? 

I can't recall- are the hatch and sportback also assembled in Györ, or are those done elsewhere?

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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> So they just need to let us start ordering S3s in March. :laugh:
> 
> Do you have any indication of potential increases in factory and/or supplier capacity in the near term, or is this protracted wait here to stay?
> 
> ...



My recollection is that the sedan and convertible are the only A3s built in Gyor, but the plant is setup such that it can be expanded to accommodate hatch production in the future. 

I don't have any good information on what the primary source of the delay is outside of the popularity of the sedan. I wouldn't be surprised if there is also a combination of supplies/logistics and quality control thrown into the mix as well. No doubt this is a source of some serious frustration for product planners around the globe.

Considering Mercedes is running into similar problems with the CLA and has already told US dealers to expect constrained supplies throughout 2014, I suspect we're looking at the same problem: demand is exceeding supply by a significant margin.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Only delivery before fall will impress me. I'm within an inch of contacting Scott Keogh directly as Audi's presence on G+ leaves a lot to be desired, and they are disseminating conflicting info on the S3 release date.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Hey Dan, I attended the launch here in Toronto and met and chatted with a exec from head office Audi Canada and he said April for the A3's, August for the A3 tdi's and expect October for the S3. At that point the 2 series gran coupe would be just around the corner especially if there is a delay in Audi's delivery timelines.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I don't aspire to drive a BMW, but I do hope Audi feels the heat from BMW over the poor decisions which have been made for the A3 launch.

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## chiphead (May 12, 2011)

I'm split between:

15' VW Golf R
BMW M235i 
Audi S3
MB GLA45

The BMW would be a long shot, considering it's 2 door and RWD, but I wouldn't complain if it miraculously appeared in my driveway ;-)


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I don't aspire to drive a BMW, but I do hope Audi feels the heat from BMW over the poor decisions which have been made for the A3 launch.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


they are already feeling the heat. mercedes has beat them to the punch....twice...first the CLA and soon, the C class, both of which will arrive before the A3. bmw will release the 2 series coupe and the 4 series gran coupe before the A3 as well.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> I don't aspire to drive a BMW, but I do hope Audi feels the heat from BMW over the poor decisions which have been made for the A3 launch.


Dan,

Not that I am _not_disappointed with the rollout timeline, but the reality is that Audi is going to sell 20,000 - 30,000 A3s per year once it goes on sale, that's regardless of what the handful of us on this board think. Sure, Merc and BMW have moved more quickly on their launch plans than has Audi but I don't think that will detract from the ultimate success of this car. 

Would everyone at Audi have liked to get this car to market six months earlier? Of course they would. The good news is that the auto industry doesn't move like the technology world where everything needs to be instantaneous and immediate - the bad news is that the auto industry doesn't move like the technology world, so everything moves much more slowly. 

Audi, being in the less dominant position than either BMW or Mercedes, especially in the US market, has fewer resources to plan and execute the A3 launch. My guess is that the reason we're seeing the Canadian launch so early is to get it out of the way and free up people and cash for the US launch starting with the Superbowl.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Dan,
> 
> Not that I am _not_disappointed with the rollout timeline, but the reality is that Audi is going to sell 20,000 - 30,000 A3s per year once it goes on sale, that's regardless of what the handful of us on this board think. Sure, Merc and BMW have moved more quickly on their launch plans than has Audi but I don't think that will detract from the ultimate success of this car.
> 
> ...


That's cool and all, and you're not telling me anything new. But...

You know where they ****ed up? They ****ed up by showing or talking about anything A3-related in New York at the end of March. It would be one thing if they'd shown a concept vehicle, but they didn't. They showed a production-ready product. Eighteen months from initial showing to market availability (let's be real; we're smoking crack if we think there's going to be anything close to an acceptable supply in April or any time shortly after that) of a *production vehicle* is nine kinds of asinine. Los Angeles in November would have been the much smarter decision from Audi. And for those of us here on the forum who are paying more attention than the general public? A simple "We continue to examine the feasibility of the release of the A3 family in the US but do not have a set timetable at this time" from Audi USA from March to November would have been much more proper. That would have put me in a Cayman S instead of sitting around waiting on this boondoggle of an S3 (yes, she finally yielded and said I could get the CS), and it would have put countless other people here in cars rather than waiting around. I realize they don't give a **** that they have egg on their face in the eyes of some 0.5% of their target buyer for this car, but that doesn't make it excusable.

I really may start shopping Caymans again. They'll be a) cheaper, b) readily available, and c) a ****-ton more fun. Yeah, that may put me back in the car market in a few years if we have an "oops," but that's not really a concern for me at this time.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> That's cool and all, and you're not telling me anything new. But...
> 
> You know where they ****ed up? They ****ed up by showing or talking about anything A3-related in New York at the end of March. It would be one thing if they'd shown a concept vehicle, but they didn't.


Agreed, 100%. I think that Audi of America felt they needed to put a dog into the compact luxury race and get the market talking about the product early. Why - I don't know. I come from the technology world where if you announce something, you damned well better be ready to deliver with great prejudice. 

I don't pretend to understand the complexities of automobile marketing, I'll leave that to guys like Pete DeLorenzo, but I agree that an 18 month lead time is painful. I thought Merc's 9 month was bad from Superbowl 2013 until September, but Audi has taken things to a new level with the A3 launch. Will the delays ultimately be worth it? I tend to think that for 98% of potential buyers it won't make a difference one way or the other. As for me, I'm that oddball who will likely forego the A3 since it won't be offered in a manual, so it's hard for me to get very excited about it at the moment. Plus, considering 2014 will be the year I need a new car and a good deal on an A3 will be hard to come by for quite a while, the A4 or a CPO S4 is looking to be more likely by the day.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

i find the whole handling of the A3 launch completely mind boggling. they showed a concept over 2 and half years ago. they specifically announced it was for NA and china, they stopped production of the A3 sportback and left their NA dealers without any A3 in their lineup for over a year and then they release the sportback and sedan everywhere BUT NA. it will be over 3 years by the time they bring the concept to production in NA. i don't buy this "they don't have enough resources blah blah blah" vw/audi are one of largest manufacturers in the world. this was just bad planning imo.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Agreed, 100%. I think that Audi of America felt they needed to put a dog into the compact luxury race and get the market talking about the product early. Why - I don't know. I come from the technology world where if you announce something, you damned well better be ready to deliver with great prejudice.
> 
> I don't pretend to understand the complexities of automobile marketing, I'll leave that to guys like Pete DeLorenzo, but I agree that an 18 month lead time is painful. I thought Merc's 9 month was bad from Superbowl 2013 until September, but Audi has taken things to a new level with the A3 launch. Will the delays ultimately be worth it? *I tend to think that for 98% of potential buyers it won't make a difference one way or the other.* As for me, I'm that oddball who will likely forego the A3 since it won't be offered in a manual, so it's hard for me to get very excited about it at the moment. Plus, considering 2014 will be the year I need a new car and a good deal on an A3 will be hard to come by for quite a while, the A4 or a CPO S4 is looking to be more likely by the day.


Sad but true. They'll lose some volume that they could've had by beating others to market, but by setting the targets low enough, they'll effectively erase that deficit. It's all in how you measure yourself...

I wish I didn't feel that the A4/ S4 is a bloated pig. The S4 is a fantastic car, but I'm just not willing to upsize. I'm actually surprised you haven't moved on the S4 yet, really.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

kevlartoronto said:


> i find the whole handling of the A3 launch completely mind boggling. they showed a concept over 2 and half years ago. they specifically announced it was for NA and china, they stopped production of the A3 sportback and left their NA dealers without any A3 in their lineup for over a year and then they release the sportback and sedan everywhere BUT NA. it will be over 3 years by the time they bring the concept to production in NA. i don't buy this "they don't have enough resources blah blah blah" vw/audi are one of largest manufacturers in the world. this was just bad planning imo.


I've become far too cynical when I'm toeing the same line as you and ChrisFu. :heart:


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

kevlartoronto said:


> i find the whole handling of the A3 launch completely mind boggling. they showed a concept over 2 and half years ago. they specifically announced it was for NA and china, they stopped production of the A3 sportback and left their NA dealers without any A3 in their lineup for over a year and then they release the sportback and sedan everywhere BUT NA. it will be over 3 years by the time they bring the concept to production in NA. i don't buy this "they don't have enough resources blah blah blah" vw/audi are one of largest manufacturers in the world. this was just bad planning imo.


As far as planning is concerned - there's really not much you can do if your platform and your factory aren't ready to support you. The A3 sedan business case rode on the economies of scale provided by MQB. Market requirements for the US demanded lower cost production than in Germany or Belgium. This dictated the expansion in Gyor. That factory didn't come online until May of this year. 

Moving forward we won't see this kind of delay for future model changeovers. Case in point, the A7 Sportback. That was shown in concept form in 2009 and went on sale as the A5 Sportback 6 months later, and about a year later as the A7. Look, this is a company in the midst of a major expansion with zero capacity to spare. None of us here likes the fact that we have to wait but frankly, that's the issue we're dealing with. 

As for leaving US dealers high and dry without A3s, I can't say that was a big concern for anyone involved: the A3 was a cost center, not a profit maker for Audi of America. Were I a product planner (or dealership inventory manager) I would gladly trade a years' worth of 500 units/month for the future potential of 2,000 - 3,000 units per month. 

Don't forget the old addage: you can have good, fast or cheap. Choose any two.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> Sad but true. They'll lose some volume that they could've had by beating others to market, but by setting the targets low enough, they'll effectively erase that deficit. It's all in how you measure yourself...
> 
> I wish I didn't feel that the A4/ S4 is a bloated pig. The S4 is a fantastic car, but I'm just not willing to upsize. I'm actually surprised you haven't moved on the S4 yet, really.


Great point - and in Audi's book moving from 400-500 units per month to upwards of 3,000 per month is worth the wait. 

My (otherwise) negative take on the A4 has changed since I had the opportunity to drive a 2013 with the Sport Package, which completely changes the car's nature. The lowered suspension and significantly improved seats make it just about right. 

As for the S4 - the big reason is simply dollars. I haven't found a 2013 in the sweet spot yet because these suckers are holding their value really well. After driving the 2013 2.0T Sport, however, I think I'll be just fine skipping the S4 considering there are a handful of '13s with a manual, sport and Nav for $36-$38k. At that price it's a really compelling option.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> Don't forget the old adage: you can have good, fast or cheap. Choose any two.


:laugh:

I know which two we _won't_ get.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I've become far too cynical when I'm toeing the same line as you and ChrisFu. :heart:


Ha! :sly: The reality is Audi knew their timelines. They knew they needed and planned on building a whole new plant for a whole new platform. They told everybody this car was aimed directly at the NA and Chinese market but then they turned around and delayed the release in these markets to service Europe. Meh. Feels like they see NA as a secondary market. They aren't going to win market share from BMW or Mercedes with that attitude.


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## chiphead (May 12, 2011)

There are a number of highly competent cars in the market where S3 is entering into. Audi needs to get this right. The Lexus IS-F Sport and BMW 3 M-Sport are right in the same price range, and they have much richer heritage to fall back on. You can get a 13' leftover 3 series for about $3000 in rebates on top of whatever discount the dealer is offering. The only reason we are staying put is we are bucking the trend against the gigantification of cars in this day and age, and what remains of brand loyalty towards Audi.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

Travis Grundke said:


> My (otherwise) negative take on the A4 has changed since I had the opportunity to drive a 2013 with the Sport Package, which completely changes the car's nature. The lowered suspension and significantly improved seats make it just about right.
> .


I don't feel like the A4 is THAT big. My daily is a 2010 GTI I've always loved smaller cars. For context, I've had 2 Corrados, a 93 MR2 turbo, a 2005 Golf TDi, and 2007 350Z roadster... My wife's car (she has the kid all day) is a 2011 A4 Avant titanium edition.. By far the "biggest" car I've owned. When I get into it I don't think "gd this thing is big and ungainly." I'm actually very surprised at how well it handles on sweeping turns. It feels better on a few turns that I didn't feel nearly as comfortable in the 350Z at the same speeds. It's definitely not a "flickable" car like some of my older cars.. but it seems to have a lot of grip and is very smooth. 

tldr; getting into a4 avant does not require any "adjustments" from a 2010 GTI. The reason I don't want to go the S4 route .. is that I already have an A4. 

I saw a TT RS for sale at 52k w/18k miles on it.. but due to my commute I really need an auto or i'd go batsht insane.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

After having way too much time off to look at cars over the holiday season, I'm thinking of picking up an S4 instead of the S3. I don't have to guess the pricing and options, I can drive it and bring it home today and there are a bunch of them in the color that I want. 

I'm really thinking we are going to get screwed on availability and price when this car does start shipping.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

I can see more folks leaning A4/S4 now given the pricing (and delays) on the A3, especially for those of us in the U.S., but I have a hard time making the shift knowing a B9 A4 is right around the corner...

It's the whole last year of the current gen, or waiting for the latest, greatest new gen. I tend to always lean towards the latter. The choice to wait for that gives me more time to decide between an Audi and a Golf R.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Motown_Dub said:


> After having way too much time off to look at cars over the holiday season, I'm thinking of picking up an S4 instead of the S3. I don't have to guess the pricing and options, I can drive it and bring it home today and there are a bunch of them in the color that I want.
> 
> I'm really thinking we are going to get screwed on availability and price when this car does start shipping.


I wouldn't say we're going to get screwed, it will just be the inevitable limited supply and MSRP game for the first six months or so. If you're willing to pony up the dollars they'll get you the car you want. That said, there are some really good deals to be had on F30 BMWs ('13s and '14s) as well as A4/S4s, especially if you are flexible. As I mentioned before, there are a few 2013 CPO'd A4s with sport package and 6MT out there for the mid $30s, which is very compelling. In comparison, paying close to $40k new for a fully loaded A3 2.0T or $41+ for an S3 _without_ my preferred transmission just doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

davewg said:


> I can see more folks leaning A4/S4 now given the pricing (and delays) on the A3, especially for those of us in the U.S., but I have a hard time making the shift knowing a B9 A4 is right around the corner...
> 
> It's the whole last year of the current gen, or waiting for the latest, greatest new gen. I tend to always lean towards the latter. The choice to wait for that gives me more time to decide between an Audi and a Golf R.


For me the interest in the A4 is driven more by transmission options than delays or pricing. I suspect that realistically we're looking at autumn 2015 before the B9 A4 goes on sale here in the US.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

davewg said:


> I can see more folks leaning A4/S4 now given the pricing (and delays) on the A3, especially for those of us in the U.S., but I have a hard time making the shift knowing a B9 A4 is right around the corner...
> 
> It's the whole last year of the current gen, or waiting for the latest, greatest new gen. I tend to always lean towards the latter. The choice to wait for that gives me more time to decide between an Audi and a Golf R.


After owning many cars, the last year of the current design usually means a more reliable car. I know there are no guarantees in life but the new car is more likely to experience growing pains. Also one could always argue waiting for the 'new hotness' and skipping the 'old and busted' model. 

Another thing that has me itchy is the fact my current car is depreciating like crazy. Its lost a few thousand in value over the last few months,


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## Chuck2001 (Aug 12, 2011)

Cr*p, I'm gonna say it.

I'm thinking about getting SQ5 instead... :facepalm:

I've gone one kid coming, and wife wants a second quick after that, so I think it's not the smartest idea to get an S3. Back is not ideal for baby seats because it's cramped and low, and trunk opening is not that good for baby stuff.

I'd miss the hatchback style with S3...

Wife aways wanted a Q5 even if the interior feels a bit dated. But I think the only way to go Q5 for me is the S model, TDI second in line but is a pig compared.


ARGGLLLLLLLL HELP ME :banghead:


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Chuck2001 said:


> Cr*p, I'm gonna say it.
> 
> I'm thinking about getting SQ5 instead... :facepalm:
> 
> ...


This won't help, but we got a Town and Country after my wife got tired of bonking my son's head on the door frame of her Isuzu Rodeo. Tight door openings and infants in car seats do not a happy marriage make.

If it were me, and I'd look close at the Q5s rear door opening, with a kid on the way I'd be leaning Q5. At some point you will compromise for family...it's inevitable.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Travis Grundke said:


> For me the interest in the A4 is driven more by transmission options than delays or pricing. I suspect that realistically we're looking at autumn 2015 before the B9 A4 goes on sale here in the US.


For me, the S-tronic is the only option with a manual-averse spouse. Purchase won't be till early/mid-'16 at this point unless my truck blows up (read more $$$$ expensive repairs), so I guess I can wait and see a bit on the B9 A4.


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## chiphead (May 12, 2011)

Get her a $30k mom mobile, and spend the rest on a sporty 2 door project car. The SQ5 is fast for a CUV, but it's still slow and ponderous compared to a car that sits low to the ground.

"That height doesn't help the cornering prowess. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty good in the twisties for a compact SUV, but the top heavy weight doesn't inspire the highest level of confidence.

The real issue comes from the steering, which has the sensitivity and feel of wet noodles. It's overboosted and doesn't communicate the road to the driver effectively. I'm sure it's plenty capable of being way faster than you'd ever need on a back road, but it just doesn't instill confidence through the wheel, unfortunately."

http://jalopnik.com/2014-audi-sq5-the-jalopnik-review-1484229790


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I started to consider going Stage 3 on my GLI to just get a Q5 in place of the Rabbit and be done with it. If I could convince myself I would keep the GLI another 8-10 years after upgrading it, I may do it. I don't see that realistically happening, though.

The longer Audi waits, the more value my GLI loses. At a certain point, it won't be worth it to me to get out of it, and I'll just run it until it dies. I truly hope they get the S3 here before I reach that point.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> For me the interest in the A4 is driven more by transmission options than delays or pricing. I suspect that realistically we're looking at autumn 2015 before the B9 A4 goes on sale here in the US.


hey travis, i forgot to mention that i also asked the head office exec about the arrival of the b9 and he said it will be a 2016 model year so your guess of autumn of 2015 is prob spot on. he also added that he expects the a4 to also ditch the manual when the new model comes.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

chiphead said:


> Get her a $30k mom mobile, and spend the rest on a sporty 2 door project car. The SQ5 is fast for a CUV, but it's still slow and ponderous compared to a car that sits low to the ground.
> 
> "That height doesn't help the cornering prowess. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty good in the twisties for a compact SUV, but the top heavy weight doesn't inspire the highest level of confidence.
> 
> ...


Or he could look at buying the Porsche Macan.....


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## LeMans (Dec 8, 2010)

Nope. I'm out, fellas. The S3 has officially lost me. I'm now looking at other cars in the same price bracket, same size or not. I wanted something smaller, but something S4 sized will do, too. Reading this thread has me not all that hopeful on the availability and timeline of the car. Plus I can't say I want to get raped by the dealers on price.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

kevlartoronto said:


> hey travis, i forgot to mention that i also asked the head office exec about the arrival of the b9 and he said it will be a 2016 model year so your guess of autumn of 2015 is prob spot on. he also added that he expects the a4 to also ditch the manual when the new model comes.


Good catch, Kevlar. I'd be really surprised if they kept a manual transmission for the B9, considering Europe doesn't have it for the S4 currently. Audi could, of course, pull a BMW and give us the car with a manual. I would suspect that in another 5-8 years I'd be ready to ditch the manual as well, but at this point I'm not ready.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

LeMans said:


> Nope. I'm out, fellas. The S3 has officially lost me. I'm now looking at other cars in the same price bracket, same size or not. I wanted something smaller, but something S4 sized will do, too. Reading this thread has me not all that hopeful on the availability and timeline of the car. Plus I can't say I want to get raped by the dealers on price.


Why not stay with the S4? I'm considering a 2014 S4 now.


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## anti suv (Sep 26, 2013)

LeMans said:


> Nope. I'm out, fellas. The S3 has officially lost me. I'm now looking at other cars in the same price bracket, same size or not. I wanted something smaller, but something S4 sized will do, too. Reading this thread has me not all that hopeful on the availability and timeline of the car. Plus I can't say I want to get raped by the dealers on price.


Go for the S4. I would love to go with the S4 if i could but the size and weight is not a good fit for me.


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

LeMans said:


> Nope. I'm out, fellas. The S3 has officially lost me. I'm now looking at other cars in the same price bracket, same size or not. I wanted something smaller, but something S4 sized will do, too. Reading this thread has me not all that hopeful on the availability and timeline of the car. Plus I can't say I want to get raped by the dealers on price.


How can you reject a car that you haven't even seen or driven yet? I went out to check out a few cars during the holidays and yea it make me anxious for a new car. One thing I noticed tho is when I got back in my little A3 and drove home, that I still enjoyed it and believe I can live with it another 6 monthes or a year. Surely wouldn't want to rush out and buy something and then regret the decision.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I started to consider going Stage 3 on my GLI to just get a Q5 in place of the Rabbit and be done with it. If I could convince myself I would keep the GLI another 8-10 years after upgrading it, I may do it. I don't see that realistically happening, though.
> 
> The longer Audi waits, the more value my GLI loses. At a certain point, it won't be worth it to me to get out of it, and I'll just run it until it dies. I truly hope they get the S3 here before I reach that point.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


You shouldn't be losing much on an '06 anymore, or do you mean the mileage is getting close to the ~100,000 mile mark? 

The way I am looking at it right now being in a similar boat, put the car up in the spring for the price I want to sell it at, and take an offer that is within a few thousand, no low pressure to sell. If it sells before the S3 is here, go to a new plan, if it sells when the S3 gets here then grab that. haha let faith take over



...don't buy a Q5, there are plenty of mini-vans already on the road unless it means you get your Porsche you want


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Rudy_H said:


> You shouldn't be losing much on an '06 anymore, or do you mean the mileage is getting close to the ~100,000 mile mark?
> 
> The way I am looking at it right now being in a similar boat, put the car up in the spring for the price I want to sell it at, and take an offer that is within a few thousand, no low pressure to sell. If it sells before the S3 is here, go to a new plan, if it sells when the S3 gets here then grab that. haha let faith take over
> 
> ...


The GLI held value remarkably well for several years. They were still commanding more than $10,000 just a year ago (2006 "package two" car in fair condition with average to slightly below average odometer). I knew that would be set to bust at some point, and it's already started. It's down to $8,500 now, plus the work I'm having to put into it. Not sure what tomorrow's visit will cost, but I'll probably be close to $1,000 in the last week on the car. I don't think it's at all unrealistic to think I'll clear $7.500 tops for it when I sell later this year.

I told myself months ago I should cash out and find something cheap that's done depreciating, and now it's really too late. I'm stuck. I imagine I could be _at least_ $4,000 positive had I made that decision.

It's just about to hit 80,000 miles, and I imagine it'll only have 85,000 or so when the S3 gets here (assuming August). It's out of the garage before 90,000 miles for damn sure, S3 or not. The consideration for keeping it and building it up was very, very short-lived. I looked at the price for all necessary hardware and realized I'd approach five figures and _still_ have a car with nearly ten year old rubber and plastic to maintain. Just not sure I'm that invested in *not*​ buying a new car...


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

lotuselan said:


> How can you reject a car that you haven't even seen or driven yet? I went out to check out a few cars during the holidays and yea it make me anxious for a new car. One thing I noticed tho is when I got back in my little A3 and drove home, that I still enjoyed it and believe I can live with it another 6 monthes or a year. Surely wouldn't want to rush out and buy something and then regret the decision.


I dunno, but his whole premise of even considering an S4 is strange to me. He already has an S4! Based on his comments about the S3's timeline for availability, I can surmise that he's looking to buy soon... or before the B9 S4 lands, for sure. Why you'd move from a B8 S4 to a B8 S4 is beyond me, unless he's on a three-year lease cycle. Surely that's it...

I'm just starting to wander out of boredom and frustration. I considered asking to take an S4 out on a day's test drive while my GLI is in tomorrow, but it would be pointless for me to put the miles on their inventory. I'm not looking to spend mid-$50k money, and the S4 would absolutely be a compromise for me as I just don't want such a large car. Plus, it's an aging design, and as superficial as it may be, I want my car to still be "current" when that title comes in the mail.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> I'm just starting to wander out of boredom and frustration.


This.



Dan Halen said:


> I'm not looking to spend mid-$50k money, and the S4 would absolutely be a compromise for me...Plus, it's an aging design, and as superficial as it may be, I want my car to still be "current" when that title comes in the mail.


And this too.

Thing of it is - even though I'm farther out on making a purchase than some of you - nothing else jazzes me at the moment. Except maybe a Mk VII R.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I've become far too cynical when I'm toeing the same line as you and ChrisFu. :heart:


 Just wait, in 2 years when the B9s come out and Audi eliminates all manual transmissions....


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> Just wait, in 2 years when the B9s come out and Audi eliminates all manual transmissions....


I think you may be out of blood vessels in your brain to give at that point.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> Good catch, Kevlar. I'd be really surprised if they kept a manual transmission for the B9, considering Europe doesn't have it for the S4 currently. Audi could, of course, pull a BMW and give us the car with a manual. I would suspect that in another 5-8 years I'd be ready to ditch the manual as well, but at this point I'm not ready.


i thought i would be buying a car last summer but BMW faked me out by only bringing an auto only xdrive 328d up here in canada. it starts at 47.7k which imo is way too expensive given the 328d is really a 320d. it's also way more than a 328i which starts at 42k with a manual. then i thought, ok, i'll wait for the s3. no go on a manual s3, so that killed the idea of waiting for a s3. it seems the only hope to buy a sport sedan for me now is to wait for the 2 series gran coupe and hope it comes with a manual or buy a regular 3 series. i am thinking the 2 series gran coupe might be a little sharper in looks and dynamics when it arrives next spring.

i'd also like to note that we chatted about the engines coming with the next b9 and the higher output diesel was mentioned. i.e. the next b9 will probably have the 177hp 2L tdi not the 3L tdi.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

kevlartoronto said:


> i'd also like to note that we chatted about the engines coming with the next b9 and the higher output diesel was mentioned. i.e. the next b9 will probably have the 177hp 2L tdi not the 3L tdi.


I can't imagine it would be any other way. The 3.0TDI is way too much grunt for an A4. Maybe some variant of an S4 could get the 3.0L TDI? :laugh:


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I can't imagine it would be any other way. The 3.0TDI is way too much grunt for an A4. Maybe some variant of an S4 could get the 3.0L TDI? :laugh:


a4 is available with both the 2L and 3L tdi in Europe. smarty pants


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

kevlartoronto said:


> a4 is available with both the 2L and 3L tdi in Europe. smarty pants


I saw 3.0L TDI and assumed we're talking about the Q5 TDI motor. If that's the case, I really doubt you're going to see a NA-market A4 3.0L TDI. Packaging is just too different between us and the rest of the world.

What about a V6 Phaeton?


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## Chuck2001 (Aug 12, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> I saw 3.0L TDI and assumed we're talking about the Q5 TDI motor. If that's the case, I really doubt you're going to see a NA-market A4 3.0L TDI. Packaging is just too different between us and the rest of the world.
> 
> What about a V6 Phaeton?


I'll test drive a Q5 TDI soon with SQ5, will let you know how it is on that pig.

Thing is A4 TDI is getting old compared to BMW's 328d.


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## Chuck2001 (Aug 12, 2011)

kevlartoronto said:


> i thought i would be buying a car last summer but BMW faked me out by only bringing an auto only xdrive 328d up here in canada. it starts at 47.7k which imo is way too expensive given the 328d is really a 320d. it's also way more than a 328i which starts at 42k with a manual.


I was looking to get the xdrive 328d touring. Space is very nice, and it drives nicely. But the price was too much ! And the insurance is pricey .

My insurer is a little bit :screwy:. They want 1250$ a year for a Q5 TDI, and have to pay for a tracking device, but only 750$ for an SQ5 without tracking device.... huh ?


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Well folks, I am out....

I'll be picking up a new S4 Premium Plus with some goodies by (hopefully) Tuesday of next week. The car is the right size, the performance of the 7 speed DCT is amazing and this car will hold speed in a curve. It makes my poor Genesis Coupe seem like a R/C car.

I would have liked to wait around for the S3 but the more I thought it through AND talked to my wife, this was the better car and it's available. 

I hope all of you that wait for the S3 get the car you want. 

:beer:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Congrats! If the S4 fits your requirements, there's no good reason to sit around and wait on Audi to get their **** together.

Besides, more S3 buyers buying S4s is nothing but good news for the rest of us waiting around. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Dan Halen said:


> Congrats! If the S4 fits your requirements, there's no good reason to sit around and wait on Audi to get their **** together.
> 
> Besides, more S3 buyers buying S4s is nothing but good news for the rest of us waiting around.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


I'm glad I could help you out there. This forum is cool, I'm looking forward to seeing your car when you get it


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Which color did you choose?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Dan Halen said:


> Which color did you choose?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Glacier White Metallic. I absolutely love white cars and living in Texas it's the best color for me.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Glacier White is sharp. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Motown_Dub said:


> Glacier White Metallic. I absolutely love white cars and living in Texas it's the best color for me.


Congrats!

:thumbup:

I know you'll enjoy it. Post up a few pictures for us after you've picked it up.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

davewg said:


> Congrats!
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> I know you'll enjoy it. Post up a few pictures for us after you've picked it up.


Thanks, I will post a few pics when I get it.


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## rMBA13 (Jan 3, 2014)

would the 2-serie have the xDrive upgrade option or is it exclusive to the M235?


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