# Cam follower with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles



## FatCobraRN (Sep 6, 2006)

*Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles*

So I drove down to APR today in hopes of getting my fuel pump rebuilt to the HPFP specs. Needless to say, that didn't happen. Looks like I wasn't too far away from fuel pump failure due to cam follower *complete* failure. The piston end of the fuel pump is slightly notched so it's garbage, as is the cam shaft itself... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Keith and the rest of the guys at APR for figuring this all out for me, even if there was only bad news to give... All I can say is, if you're running the stock pump and you haven't checked your follower yet, take it from me and check it! Just replaced the follower as a temp fix until I can replace everything








Here's a couple quick cell phone pics...
















So yeah, looks like I'm gonna be getting some serious top end work done... Can anybody recommend the best place to buy a cam/gasket/seal, etc? 


_Modified by FatCobraRN at 11:24 PM 4-9-2009_


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (FatCobraRN)*

Looks familiar. I'm harassing VW to replace mine even though I'm out of warranty. Seems like a clear case of defective parts.


----------



## chewbacca5017 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (FatCobraRN)*

Dang, that sucks. Sorry to hear about that. I'm glad I changed mine out at 25k miles as a preventative measure. I'll be including this as a regular maintenance item every 20k... probably ever 10k once I get my APR HPFP.


----------



## FatCobraRN (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (jmj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmj* »_Looks familiar. I'm harassing VW to replace mine even though I'm out of warranty. Seems like a clear case of defective parts.


Definitely seems that is the case. How long have you been working on getting them to fix it? I agree that they really should replace these... No one at the dealer ever mentioned the follower during any maintenance visits (which the car has been to every 5k since day 1)...


----------



## menace5star (Nov 16, 2008)

wow!
how often did you do your oil changes?
what oil do you use?


----------



## JazzGTI (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (FatCobraRN)*

Looks like we need to do oil samples and send them in to be analyzed. This might catch it before major failure.


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (JazzGTI)*

My oil changes were 5K, 10K, 20K, 30K, 40K, 50K, 55K, 60K, 65K, 70K, 75K and 80K (not on the nose, of course). I can document each and every one, and have done so for VWoA. All done at the dealer until 50K, then by me.


_Modified by jmj at 8:01 PM 4-11-2009_


----------



## FatCobraRN (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (jmj)*

Yeah, same here. Oil changed every 5k at the dealer since the car was new. Oil has been OEM spec, I believe it's 5w40 Kendall. I'm going to go have a conversation with the dealer this week (VW/Audi of Chattanooga).


----------



## FatCobraRN (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (FatCobraRN)*

Just found the TSB related to this on APR's site... sure wish I would've found this problem while I was still under warranty...
http://www.goapr.com/images/su...r.pdf


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (FatCobraRN)*

Unless you were showing a light and had codes stored they probably wouldn't have done it for you. I genuinely feel that VW should be concerned about a massive recall on these engines, but my goal is to get my car fixed at no cost to me.


----------



## OOOO-A3 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Cam Follower Failure at 53,500*



menace5star said:


> how often did you do your oil changes?
> what oil do you use?


Same thing happened to me, oil change every 5k since new, Castrol Syntec 5w40 VW 502.00.



JazzGTI said:


> Looks like we need to do oil samples and send them in to be analyzed. This might catch it before major failure.


*No, it won't.*

Here's my Blackstone report. This oil sample was from before they did the repair, and I had been driving on it for quite a while so it was not 'sudden' as speculated by the Blackstone tech in the notes. (EDIT FOR CLARITY: I changed the oil @ 50,000. Discovered the failure at ~53,500. Continued to drive the car with a new follower until 55,xxx when the dealer replace the cam, follower again, and pump. I drained a sample of oil for the analysis the evening before I took it in for the repair. Who knows when the actual failure took place, but this particular sample of oil had been in the engine for 5000 miles of metal-grinding action.) 
Look at my pictures below.... if a Blackstone report won't pick up evidence of THAT, then it certainly won't pick up anything "before major failure". 













































































































I had the "B" (good) cam, too:


----------



## FatCobraRN (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump-- 68k miles (jmj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmj* »_Unless you were showing a light and had codes stored they probably wouldn't have done it for you. I genuinely feel that VW should be concerned about a massive recall on these engines, but my goal is to get my car fixed at no cost to me.

I agree, that's what my goal is as well. I did have CEL's from this but it pointed to the fuel pressure sensor TSB. After replacing that was still getting fuel cuts and the same "fuel pressure not constant" code. Assumed this was just b/c was running stg 2 w/ stock pump which was why I was getting the HPFP.


----------



## FatCobraRN (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (OOOO-A3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOOO-A3* »_
Same thing happened to me, oil change every 5k since new, Castrol Syntec 5w40 VW 502.00.


What was your total mileage when that was found? Running software stg1/stg2?


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (OOOO-A3)*

0000-A3,
That is awesome info. Thanks for posting that! Sorry to hear about the cam follower failure. That sucks.


----------



## OOOO-A3 (Jul 20, 2004)

*.*



FatCobraRN said:


> What was your total mileage when that was found? Running software stg1/stg2?


Discovered at about *53,500*.

I was going to replace the follower as preventive maintenance, so I had already bought a new one to install when I took it apart and found the original one was fuxored. I put in the new follower. Winner Audi ( 👎👎 )screwed me around and wasted my time, so I had to drive on the f'd up cam & f'd up pump & new follower that I had installed for another ~1500 miles until they replaced those three parts (and ONLY those three parts, since they were being dickbags). At no time did it exhibit drivability issues or throw a CEL.

After the 'repair', the cam seal failed less than 3000 miles later due to Winner Audi's incompetence in performing the cam replacement. A different dealer replaced the cam seal for me under warranty, with ZERO hassle, and gave me a loaner (👍👍 )

The car is "stage zero". No chip.


----------



## FatCobraRN (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (OOOO-A3)*

**update**
After going to 2 different dealerships, and much discussion, VWoA decided they would make a "good will gesture" and pay for 50% of the parts... not covering any of the labor however which is over $800 alone... better than nothing I suppose. I'm just ready to have it fixed


----------



## doctorgonzo (Jan 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (FatCobraRN)*

Hah I'd give them your own "good will gesture" and keep pushing for 100% coverage.


----------



## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (FatCobraRN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FatCobraRN* »_**update**
After going to 2 different dealerships, and much discussion, VWoA decided they would make a "good will gesture" and pay for 50% of the parts... not covering any of the labor however which is over $800 alone... better than nothing I suppose. I'm just ready to have it fixed









It's better than nothing but this doesn't cost VW much if anything. How much are the parts?


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (dmorrow)*

Man, that is uber-lame. I've sent a demand letter pursuant to consumer protection statute, demanding full replacement. I've already purchased replacement parts, so I'm not interested in anything other than installation at this point.


----------



## FatCobraRN (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jmj)*

Yeah it sucks balls... And of course they won't pay anything unless it's installed by the dealer. So I ended up just paying regular price for the parts, my friend is an ASE certified tech, gonna download the All-Data files and do it ourselves. Decided better to pay 500(+/-) for parts than close to 1100 to have it installed with "discounted" parts.








I'm just ready to get it replaced and get on with things. Gotta make sure car's ready for SoWo in 2 weeks...


----------



## tranceporter (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (FatCobraRN)*

i thought i was the only one fighting vw on this. i even told them i was going to sell the car and leave the vw community and look at the answer i got back

_Quote »_filled out the little comment box on the vw website to get one of them to repsond to me
then i get
Reference # 809102080
Dear Mr. La Hara:
Thank you for your e-mail regarding the camshaft lobe and fuel pump concerns on your GTI. I apologize for any inconvenience that may have occurred, as Volkswagen strives to provide a positive ownership experience. I understand you are seeking assistance regarding the repair, and I appreciate the opportunity to look into this matter for you.
The New Vehicle Limited Warranty on your GTI covers manufacturer’s shortcomings on parts and workmanship for four years or 50,000 miles, whichever occurs first. These parameters are established by Volkswagen of America to provide ample and balanced coverage to both high- and low-mileage drivers. All concerns must be diagnosed at an authorized Volkswagen dealership to determine if it is a manufacturer’s defect. As your car is 7,000 miles outside of these parameters, I regret I cannot provide you any assistance toward the repair. I am sorry, as I know this is not the information you were expecting to receive.
As a member of the Volkswagen family, your concerns are important to us. Again, thank you for your e-mail. If I may be of further assistance regarding this or any other matter, please don’t hesitate to contact me again by e-mail at http://www.vw.com or through our Customer CARE Center at (800) 822-8987. If I am not available, one of my colleagues will be able to assist you.
Sincerely,

Matthew Merta
Ext. 43465
Customer CARE Advocate
Reference # 809102080
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew,
You're correct, this is not the response I was expecting to receive. Nowhere in my car's manual does it describe a service replacing the cam follower behind the high pressure fuel pump. At first I thought I was having a problem with the gaskets on my intercooler piping and had them replaced. When this issue was not resolved, I did a search on the internet to find people recommending replacing the cam follower behind the hpfp. When my mechanic pulled the hpfp, the original cam follower he pulled out had a massive hole in it. He installed a new cam follower and we did a follow up to check the wear. At 500 miles, the new cam follower already lost all of its diamond coating and had a bevel indentation. We quickly replaced that cam follower and I can only imagine what the one i've been running for 700 miles looks like.
While searching on the subject, I found countless links of this identical problem. It's turning up to be a predominant problem with the 2.0T FSI motor regardless if this car is bone stock factory or high modified. So much of a problem that aftermarket companies are fighting to find a solution. Even APR admits to this problem and recommends checking the cam follower after 10,000 miles for wear even with their revamped version of the hpfp.
If it wasn't a problem then I don't understand why the high pressure fuel pump was completely redesigned in the 2.0T TSI motor. When I showed the service representative at the VW dealership yesterday the cam followers that were pulled from my car, he nodded his head and said "we've been seeing so many of these". I asked him, if that was the case, why won't VWoA make this a TSB? The only response I received was a shoulder shrug.
If this was something I caused to my vehicle then I would understand the refusal for aid but seeing how this is a design flaw, I can't justify spending $3,000 to fix something I did not cause.
I completely lost my faith in VW products and will never purchase another. Since VWoA can do nothing to help, the car is already for sale.
I appreciate the prompt answer back and regret this is the way I had to end my VW experience.
Sincerely,
Will
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. La Hara:
Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding the fuel pump and intake cam lobe concerns on your GTI. I am sorry to learn that you are considering leaving the Volkswagen family. I wanted to follow up with you regarding the warranty coverage of your vehicle.
Volkswagen truly strives to produce innovative vehicles that offer a unique combination of German engineering, safety, driving enjoyment and value. The New Vehicle Limited Warranty coverage of four years or 50,000 miles, whichever occurs first, on manufacturer’s shortcoming was established by Volkswagen of America for normal driving conditions. Use of the vehicle that varies from these normal driving conditions can have an impact on the life of the car’s components. Regularly scheduled maintenance performed at an authorized Volkswagen dealership can provide additional information on your car, as the dealership technicians have the most up-to-date resources available, and recommendations can be made according to personal driving habits that differ from normal driving conditions. I recommend you continue to communicate with the service manager at your local VW dealership regarding preventative maintenance and future service concerns on your GTI.
Thank you again for providing me with the opportunity to respond to your concerns, as well as document your valuable comments within Volkswagen. It is through feedback from our valued customers that we are able to continually evaluate our vehicles’ production and performance. I hope that in the near future we will able to restore your loyalty to the Volkswagen family. Please feel free to contact me again by e-mail at http://www.vw.com or through our Customer CARE Center at (800) 822-8987 for any additional concerns or questions.
Sincerely,

Matthew Merta
Ext. 43465
Customer CARE Advocate

fast forward a bit and i just swapped high pressure fuel pump and changed my cam follower and i'm having the same fueling problems. looks like my cam lobe is fubared







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## azvwgli (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (tranceporter)*

When my cam and follower went bad, the dealership told me it was because I had an intake and high flow exhaust. When I asked them to explain that to me they stated that because fo the decreased backpressure, the cam failed. We got in a long and heated discussion about the fact that lowered backpressure would actually decrease the strain on the engine, since an engine is essentially an air pump, and the changed their minds and said that the decreased pressure caused the cam to rotate faster then the original design was intended for...
So then I had to explain that the cam was driven by the engine and was RPM dependant. Finally, the service manager realised that he wasn't talking to a complete moron and decided to make and "exception" to VW's warranty policy and replace my parts under warranty, even considering that my car was "highly modified." WOW, an intake, exhaust and VW lowering springs...so highly modified. I didn't even have an ECU upgrade at the time...
I for one, will also never own a VW/AUDI product again. Although I love the majority of my car, I would rather own a Chevy that is warrantied for 100,000 miles than ever deal with suck crappy customer service or engines that were dropped because of crappy design after a few years. If VW is so great at designing things, design a roller for the fuel pump that will not wear like two pieces of basically solid, flat metal rubbing together. That is why there are things like roller rockers and electric fuel pumps, when metal rubs on other metal, it tends to wear out and fail...especially when it is under great amounts of pressure, like on a high pressure fuel pump. Obviously, the design was flawed, or they wouldn't have redesigned the engine and changed the fuel pump design with the hope that the old engines would last just long enough to get out of warranty. Great job VW, another customer GONE!!


----------



## tranceporter (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (azvwgli)*

you think if we all got in contact with the BBB it'll help us at all? i'm desperate at this point. i can't justify spending 3g's on something i didn't cause


----------



## seattheodore (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tranceporter)*

The same system with HPFP and cam follower is also in new Audi S3, however the damaged cam followers are few in comparison with bwa and axx engines. 
The thing is that they have different camshaft and new versions of HPFP. For example my car with bwa engine and B cam has HPFP version 41 and I have seen S3s with version 52 or 62








(The version number is at the front of the pump under the logo of Hitachi and with sculptured numbers)
So maybe, just maybe this 2 parts play a role to the whole problem.
Can someone else tell to us his pump version??? 
Disclaimer: I am not sure about everything I think, I am just trying to figure out a sollution. So I don´t want to cause anyone to change his pump and camshaft


----------



## tranceporter (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (seattheodore)*

so now what


----------



## ClassActionPerhaps (May 7, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tranceporter)*

Hello All
I'm making a new post and hopefully it will stay on point with the help of moderation. It is a post to join our efforts to word well our similar situation and to approach VW repeatedly in sync.
My motor is junk, it has been since approx. 34K miles. I was at a stop light when my engine began to stammer and then it cleared up. Later, there was oil smell and burnoff of white smoke. I had just had an oil change so I returned to the dealer lot, popped the hood expecting the oil cap to be loose, or the dipstick to be missing--instead, I found a hole in the top left part of the running engine. Inside the hole the drivechain assembly continued to saw up and out of the aluminum case. I was absolutely confused. How is this car running? What would allow this to occur? And does this mean there's metal now throughout my engine?
Well, that was the beginning...
Please post in the "2.0T FSI Hardship" topic if you have a similar situation. This motor drivers only please. Let's get organized, keep it concise, and get our damn investments back!


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (ClassActionPerhaps)*

So your engine is ruined immediately after the dealer changed the oil? Didn't this just happen to someone else? Where does VW find these "technicians"?


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (tranceporter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tranceporter* »_i thought i was the only one fighting vw on this. i even told them i was going to sell the car and leave the vw community and look at the answer i got back

As an attorney, I can't help but key in on the portion of their first response where they appear to admit that there is a "manufacturer's shortcoming", but then go on to say it's not covered due to your mileage. Might be worth your while to research any applicable consumer protection statute for your state and reference this statement. My experience so far is that you have to be firm and persistent. Being coarse and vulgar probably won't help any, and may actually hurt in the long run.
In my case, VW called me (after I sent a demand for settlement pursuant to statute) and had me schedule a diagnostic appointment with my dealer, which I did today. I showed the service manager my original follower, and they confirmed that the cam and pump are FUBAR'd, and gave me an estimate of $1900 to replace. I called the person who had me schedule the appointment, but she's on vacation, so I left her a message. 
Dealership gave me a loaner car and washed my GTI, which had been covered in bug guts from a trip back and forth to Worcester yesterday. VWoA arranged to cover the cost of the visit.


----------



## southbay (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump 59k miles*

Luckily discovered at 59,742 miles and completely covered under warranty. The car was throwing codes and had no power. The cam follower was completely disintigrated, and the cam heavily gouged. Also the end of the pump rod heavily damaged.
Riverhead Bay VW in Riverhead NY had my car for 21 days and replaced:
Cam - 06F-109-101-B
Cam Follower - 06D-109-309-C
HP Fuel Pump - 06F-127-025-J
Fitting - 06F-127-213-B
Gasket - 06D-103-121-B
Gasket - 06F-103-483-D
Tensioner - 06F-109-217-A
Valve - 06F-109-257-C
ECU (computer) - 1k0-907-115-b
The above part numbers are the new replacement parts. I don't know what the original part numbers are.
I also had them replace the timing belt and water pump. I paid for the parts, labor was included in the warranty work, since while they were in there, which was nice.
I got a loaner Ford Fusion after the first 10 days.
Replaced the stock oil drain plug with a magnetic one from ECS Tuning when I first got the car. Always changed the oil before the recommended schedule with Castrol 5W-40 Syntec. The plug always collected many metal filings.
Have pics but not signed with iServe yet.


_Modified by southbay at 9:34 AM 5-27-2009_


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: Cam follower failure with stock fuel pump 59k miles (southbay)*


_Quote, originally posted by *southbay* »_
I also had them replace the timing belt and water pump. I paid for the parts, labor was included in the warranty work, since while they were in there, which was nice.

Interesting. My service advisor told me there was no "overlap work" with the cam replacement and the timing belt/water pump. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4402319


_Modified by jmj at 6:09 PM 5-26-2009_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

*FV-QR*

How awesome would it be to redesign a new end cover with a bigger diameter lifter bucket and a matching bigger load on the cam, possibly with some improved oiling as well. 
I keep thinking about it but I think the cost would be way too much


----------



## sereges (Jul 21, 2008)

So as a member for a couple years and no real posts put up. I feel like this is the proper time. I brought my car to the dealer last monday for a fuel pressure regulator valve replacement. The dealer warrenteed a whole list of parts cam fun stuff only to get my car back the following day with a check engine on when i got it back. So i brought it back inside the garage they couldnt figure it out. They called me up the next day asking me questions about my oil changes, intervals of the changes and what kind of oil of course i baby my b6. I use castrol syntec 5w-40 every 3-4000 mi.. The vw dealer said they were doing some tests and that volkswagen tech support said i need a new motor and that they would cover it under powertrain warrunty at 56k. Isnt this amazing i would love to keep my car but whats gunna happen at 100k new tranny, suspension or whats next. Anyone getting a new engine over similar situation?


----------



## jvand69 (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: (sereges)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sereges* »_So as a member for a couple years and no real posts put up. I feel like this is the proper time. I brought my car to the dealer last monday for a fuel pressure regulator valve replacement. The dealer warrenteed a whole list of parts cam fun stuff only to get my car back the following day with a check engine on when i got it back. So i brought it back inside the garage they couldnt figure it out. They called me up the next day asking me questions about my oil changes, intervals of the changes and what kind of oil of course i baby my b6. I use castrol syntec 5w-40 every 3-4000 mi.. The vw dealer said they were doing some tests and that volkswagen tech support said i need a new motor and that they would cover it under powertrain warrunty at 56k. Isnt this amazing i would love to keep my car but whats gunna happen at 100k new tranny, suspension or whats next. Anyone getting a new engine over similar situation?
One of our friends had the same type of thing happend and they did replace it. i was shocked


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

well, crap. I just bought this car in July... I think im gonna sell it and run away! lol
so many problems so far with my car... 60,000 miles and ive already paid OVER 3,000 in repairs... not including the stuff ive done myself...
and my audi dealership denied all my aftermarket warranty claims cuz i had a "highly modified car"... I had a Neuspeed intake, and the dogbone insert... neither that I installed... they were already on the car...
I fear what my cam follower looks like at 61k miles....
**** this, im going back to my Honda Civic SI... 97,000 highway miles and ive never had a single problem, and have never once had to pop my hood other than to change the oil and replace the belts...
boo VAG.


----------



## Sympley (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: (Krieger)*

my follower went at 42,000km. It was funny they keep on giving me new gas caps because they keep trouble shooting is as a gas cap leak. Finally over 4 months and 4 gas caps later they changed the cam follower, and the cam. Don't think they did fuel pump although it looks newer probably just from wiping it with a shop towel or something. 
It didn't cross my mind until I read this post regarding the metal filings. Is this something I should be worried about? I still have 2 year to pay for the car and it will be out of warranty for about a year while I still will be makign payments.
This will be my first and last VAG car as well. In total 16 visits to dealer to get **** fixed. Way too many times if you ask me, I could see occasional thing breaking but this is too much. 
Wife's civic bought at the same time as my Jetta, she already has double the mileage (82K) and she has no issues what so ever...actually let me correct that her sun visor cracked open, so 1 issues with the civic
Just for ****s and giggles my car history and their issues, the cheaper car I drove the less issues I had:
Hyundai Pony: sold @ 126K 1 issues ($40 fix)
Hyundai Excel: sold @ 105K 2 issues ($200 fixes)
Hyundai Accent GT: sold @ 135K 3 issues (simple issues covered)
Olds Alero Coupe: sold @ 88K 12 issues ($13,000 spend to keep the car running)
Jetta 2.0T: 16 issues and counting. Can't wait for the next one.
MY quote for the day "Oh ****, what happened now"....this is the greeting I get from one of the service advisers, they all know me too well.


----------



## TCFGLI08 (Apr 6, 2011)

When I go to the Stealership,everyone scatters,gone 
I said to my wife watch this....and bang they were gone 
They know I love my GLI and don't ---k with me if you can't 
show respect. And REALLY where do they get their techs 
I do my on work ,if I f--k it up and sometimesI do,then it's 
on me.


----------



## Elwood (Aug 10, 2001)

TCFGLI08 said:


> When I go to the Stealership,everyone scatters,gone
> I said to my wife watch this....and bang they were gone
> They know I love my GLI and don't ---k with me if you can't
> show respect. And REALLY where do they get their techs
> ...


 LOL. My dealer quit sending my customer surveys because I always bag on them. They can't do anything right.


----------



## TCFGLI08 (Apr 6, 2011)

Same here


----------

