# Coil-overs for a VW fox



## JFOX788 (Aug 17, 2007)

I am looking and have not been able to find coil-overs for my 1990 VW fox GL. If anyone knows where I can find these for a price that's not extremely expensive PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! Thank you


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## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (JFOX788)*

Ask "Ian!". he even lives in Kent.


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (JFOX788)*

You can't buy them because they don't exist. You'll have to build them 
I've done several write ups and how to's on them with pics and the works. Ian has also recently delved into the CO land and I'm pretty sure The Brit as well. 
Basically, the recipe consists of some Bilstien Sports (I know I have that in the FAQs), threaded CO sleeves, 3" ID springs of the proper height and weight, and cutting the front perch off of your front strut housing.


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## JFOX788 (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (HiJinx)*

What do you think of this
Lowering kit http://www.drivewire.com/perca...&pt=4


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (JFOX788)*

*STOP*

*This thread is all you need to know about coil-overs on a VW Fox *


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_wow neato they say it is a nuespeed lowering kit for the fox for $209
wonder what springs they use




I'm curious about this too....


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (DubbinChris)*

Edit for FAQ's


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## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_you should buy some and tell us how they work out?








 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lucalucaluca (Nov 26, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (HiJinx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiJinx* »_You can't buy them because they don't exist. You'll have to build them 
I've done several write ups and how to's on them with pics and the works. Ian has also recently delved into the CO land and I'm pretty sure The Brit as well. 
Basically, the recipe consists of some Bilstien Sports (I know I have that in the FAQs), threaded CO sleeves, 3" ID springs of the proper height and weight, and cutting the front perch off of your front strut housing. 
Yes, they do exist!


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (HiJinx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiJinx* »_You'll have to build them 

"Build them" is such an over-statement--a misrepresentation, really. It's a simple matter of buying a coil over set for any MKI or MKII and doing some minor mods to the front upper spring perch and front strut mounts. 
The front upper perch needs to be honed a little where it fits over the strut shaft. The mounts usually need to have the skirt trimmed to allow them to spin freely.


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (Longitudinal)*

Ok, you have to compile them.








It's still building. An easy build, yes, but you still need to cut, assemble, etc. 
Don't neglect replacing the strut bearings with quality units and having a spare set on standby. 
When removing the base spring seat, don't cut though the strut housing like I've seen people do on accident (though I'm not entirely sure how one could be that negligent). 
The spring hats I had had to be machined to fit the top of my front struts, and also around the top to leave room for it to pivot on the strut bearing. 
The rears however are quite simple and intuitive IMO.


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (lucalucaluca)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lucalucaluca* »_Yes, they do exist!

Unless you're shipping them to us for a reasonable amount from down south, then for all intents and purposes, they don't exist.


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## lucalucaluca (Nov 26, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (HiJinx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiJinx* »_
Unless you're shipping them to us for a reasonable amount from down south, then for all intents and purposes, they don't exist. 
Maybe they don´t exist in you local store, but they do exist Sir.


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (lucalucaluca)*

Like I implied, here they don't. as in the US. Unless you're going to send him some, then like I said, for all intents and purposes, they don't exist and he'll be needing to build some if he would like some. 
Yes, go ahead and retort that he could spend more money than is even remotely reasonable to spend and order some from Brazil. 
Look, if you're going to state they exist, then quote location, cost, part name, etc. Just saying 'they exist' for sake of posting is asinine.


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## lucalucaluca (Nov 26, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (HiJinx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiJinx* »_Like I implied, here they don't. as in the US. Unless you're going to send him some, then like I said, for all intents and purposes, they don't exist and he'll be needing to build some if he would like some. 
Yes, go ahead and retort that he could spend more money than is even remotely reasonable to spend and order some from Brazil. 
Look, if you're going to state they exist, then quote location, cost, part name, etc. Just saying 'they exist' for sake of posting is asinine. 
Kangaroo also doesn´t exist


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## tbt10f (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (lucalucaluca)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lucalucaluca* »_Kangaroo also doesn´t exist
 At least there are photos and videos of kangaroos out in the wild. We would all love to see some pics of a coilover kit in the wild.


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (lucalucaluca)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lucalucaluca* »_Kangaroo also doesn´t exist

Exactly as I suspected. You really have nothing useful to bring here. Scurry away now please.


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## BillLeBob (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (lucalucaluca)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lucalucaluca* »_Kangaroo also doesn´t exist

Then what did I eat for dinner last night?  I't better not have been another Koala...those ****ers taste like cough drops. Next I suppose the Fox fourm will tell me that BigFoot is not real. Not real? Then what got my dog pregnant? I saw it. I had to beat the big ape off of her with a broom and turn the hose on em' both. Now I'm gonna have half dingo, half pit bull and half BigFoot puppies. 150% nasty.( The extra 50% is possible due to the involvment of interspecies kryptozoological rape) Try giving those away at the grocery store entrance. 
Oh.... 
Since no retailer in Brazil is willing or able to bother to take the time to talk to us.... No coilovers for the Fox exist. Period. Its 105% DIY up here. Besides, even if they did wnat to sell to us, they would demand payment in Euros or Turkish Lira or somthing worth more than the $. 


_Modified by BillLeBob at 7:35 PM 11-14-2007_


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (BillLeBob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BillLeBob* »_ Oh alright. The Pound. Is the pound backed by anything or is it based on twinkies or sacks of dog poop in reserve like the USD?

Ouch


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (HiJinx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiJinx* »_Ok, you have to compile them. 

Let's agree on "assemble." They must be assembled onto the car, but the same is true of a Shine set for a Rabbit. There's some trimming here and there. 
It's frustrating to see Fox owners get so self-congratulatory over trimming 1" off a coil over sleeve and calling it "fabrication," so I am a bit sensitive to these things. Half the time I hear something like this, I wonder how many potential Foxers are sent running in fear because they think something is difficult when it is actually quite simple.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (DubbinChris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubbinChris* »_
Ouch









No ouch about it. How you checked the exchange rate recently? Looke at the companies listing on the FTSE, or seen where 'China' is putting more and more money?
Sucks that I'm earning measly US dollars now


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## milo1303s (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (Banned wagon)*

NEUSPEED LOWERING KIT 
Brand: NEUSPEED 
Availability: Special Order Item. Please call 800.895.8910 for ordering details. All Special Order Parts are NON-REFUNDABLE. 
Your Price: $209.30 
Retail Price: 243.70 
Click to enlarge 
Dimentions: 
Height: 6in Width: 6in Length: 28in 
Description:
SP-SPRG KIT FOX 87-93 . For more information on this product, please call one of our expert sales associates at (800) 895-8910 
raddo fronts and rabbit rears but I don't think you can get tham anymore


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
It's frustrating to see Fox owners get so self-congratulatory *over trimming 1" off a coil over sleeve *and calling it "fabrication," so I am a bit sensitive to these things. Half the time I hear something like this, I wonder how many potential Foxers are sent running in fear because they think something is difficult when it is actually quite simple.

Who's trimming a coil over sleeve?
Who mentioned fabrication?
It's also crappy to tell someone they can buy a sleeve 'n spring kit and that they can do it with their eyes closed. I'm not patting myself on the back by any means if you're implying that Jonathan. 
But, it's far from 'assembly'. I makes me question of you're actually aware of what is involved in getting the front COs setup. You do know the lower factory spring perch needs to be removed completely right among other things? (not saying it's hard, but just don't know if you know that or not)
Comparing the Shine COs for a Rabbit, and the setup for a Fox is not even close to the same as I've done both. 
So, due to the somewhat tricky removal of the lower spring perch, and machining of the spring hats, I will absolutely not agree on 'assemble'. 
It's not a plug 'n play set up. I'm sorry. I wish it was, but it's not and to tell someone otherwise it's just mean. 


_Modified by HiJinx at 8:48 AM 11-15-2007_


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (HiJinx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiJinx* »_I makes me question of you're actually aware of what is involved in getting the front COs setup. You do know the lower factory spring perch needs to be removed completely right among other things?

Bart, you know of at least two of the five Foxes I have converted to coil overs, so how could you ask if I know the perches have to be removed? And how does cutting constitute building? The exact same thing must be done even to the car on which the coil over set was intended to go, a Rabbit for example. It's simply part of the job of installing coil overs. MANY race parts are not direct fits even on the cars for which they are built. The supplier _builds_ the coil overs and the user _installs_ or _assembles_ them, doing what he must to do get the job done.
Shine sleeves need to be cut about an inch to fit between the steering arm and the nut that retains the strut insert. The front perches need to be trimmed a bit, which any ape armed with a Dremel or die grinder can be trained to do. 
People (not you in this particular case) use words "custom" and "fabricate" WAAY too liberally when they actually should use words like "cut," "hack," "bend" or "hammer."
Assemble: "To fit or join together the parts of."
"Build" connotes constructing from materials (un-cut wood, metal stock, etc.,) not putting parts together in a pre-ordered way.


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

Tomato tomato. 
I still think telling someone that's never done anything like this or is new to the whole thing, that they just need to be 'assembled' is still misleading, albeit one could get into a definition war, in plain English, you'll surely have to agree that 'assembly' leads people to think they just need to slide A into B. 
Our readers get the point. So you and I will have to agree to disagree since we're simply arguing over the terminology and not the method. 



_Modified by HiJinx at 9:33 AM 11-15-2007_


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## tbt10f (May 15, 2006)

*Re: (HiJinx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiJinx* »_Telling someone that's never done anything like this or is new to the whole thing, that they just need to be 'assembled' is still misleading.


Yes, I agree. Assembly needs to mean the same thing as in "Some assembly required" that they put on ikea furniture, gym equipment, etc. Assembly means in this sense that everything is whole and completed, and that at the most you migt need some basic supplies like glue, a pencil, tape, and basic tools like a screwdriver, hammer, socketset, etc.
Cutting into anything with a grinder, although it might be "Easy" to you, is far beyond assembly. You have to remember that not every fox owner (myself included) has access to a shop, air compressor, air tools, a grinder, sheetmetal tools, welding equipment, etc.


_Modified by tbt10f at 12:03 PM 11-15-2007_


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (tbt10f)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tbt10f* »_Yes, I agree. Assembly needs to mean the same thing as in "Some assembly required" that they put on ikea furniture, gym equipment, etc. Assembly means in this sense that everything is whole and completed, and that at the most you migt need some basic supplies like glue, a pencil, tape, and basic tools like a screwdriver, hammer, socketset, etc.

Yup, and that's exactly what we're talking about here. Certainly no welding is required. If you can't cut off a spring perch and ream out one hole per side on the front upper perches, you can't install coil overs--true. But otherwise this is a simple matter of stacking pre-fabricated parts together--assembly.
But please feel free to continue trying to make it sound as technical and in-depth as possible. I'm hungry. I am going to go custom fabricate a sandwich.


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
Yup, and that's exactly what we're talking about here. Certainly no welding is required. If you can't cut off a spring perch and ream out one hole per side on the front upper perches, you can't install coil overs--true. But otherwise this is a simple matter of stacking pre-fabricated parts together--assembly.
But please feel free to continue trying to make it sound as technical and in-depth as possible. I'm hungry. I am going to go custom fabricate a sandwich.

You need to custom fabricate some humble pie and stop being such a damned drama queen. Again, no one ever mentioned technical in-depth custom fabrication. 
Anyway, I'm done with this. You've ruined this thread, along with many others due to your simple dislike of me. It's pathetic and you need to find a new passtime other than finding threads I've posted in, and then arguing to your death anything I write. 
I feel bad for you Jonathan. I really do. I'm sorry life has been so cruel to you that you have to act this way. 
Do what you may to help your ego. I back down from this and you can have this thread. Assembly* it is.
_*some cutting, drilling, lathing, machining, measuring, spacing, painting, and grinding may be required. _


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (HiJinx)*

OK lets get some info on this worthless thread. Question for the Guys that have coil over set ups. What spring rates did you chose, why and would you chose something different next time?


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## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

I had 300(Maybe 350?) in the front and 200 in the rear with Koni yellows cranked to the middle setting.I wouldn't have changed a thing.







Oh wait!I would liked to have gone lower


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## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (blkparati)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blkparati* »_I had 300(Maybe 350?) in the front and 200 in the rear with Koni yellows cranked to the middle setting.I wouldn't have changed a thing.







Oh wait!I would liked to have gone lower









What were the diameter and length specs on your springs... Completeness counts.


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: (BillLeBob)*

I used 360/260, or maybe it was 300/260. Very firm whatever it was. I'm sorry I don't remember exactly. 
However I know it's archived in the forums somewhere for whoever may want to dig around for such information. 


_Modified by the brit at 4:14 PM 11-16-2007_


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

C'mon guys...








Someone make a coilover thread for the FAQs, then we can just link to it..


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

I made one with pics and everythign a long time ago and recomended it be FAQd but it never was and has sinse slipped into the oblivion of the archives. 
It's a pictorial walkthrough. Someone should dig it up. 
Though I don't have the pics online any more as I shut that acount down. but the post should still be there. 
It shouldn't be to hard to find. I've only got a few posts. 


_Modified by HiJinx at 12:49 PM 11-16-2007_


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (HiJinx)*

From the FAQs:
Group discussion about lowering foxes, including springs and coilovers
'Jamie's Ultra Drop Mod' - my own contribution about how to further modify fox coilovers, again linked from the FAQs

BASICALLY:
You need to buy a coilover sleeve setup, suitable for Volkswagen strut bearings etc. Cut your lower spring perch off of your stock strut, and grind anything that would catch the sleeve off. Now use your nice new spring and hardware to reassemble everything. 
Spring length and rate is your choice. There's lot of opinions and even more options, so research or trial/error is your friend.
Common prices for the coilover sleeve hardware would be ~$100 for ebay to $3-500 for Eibach / Ground Control / Shine etc.
You then have the option to replace your inserts - the shock part of your strut. If you have old stock ones, you'll likely want to do this in quick order, unless you just want to go low and not care about how it's done - which is a viable option of course, but then, you might as well just cut your springs








You can then go even further and do 'my' modification to lower the fronts more. At that point, you need to add another ~$2-300 for inserts, plus labour, so you're looking at $4-600 for the fronts, plus labour if you cannot weld the suspension parts.
Rears are much easier - drop your rear coilover sleeves onto your fox struts, or any mk2/3/corrado pre-made rear coilover setup will work. The cheapest these are available for is around $300 for the cheapest, upto $650 for 'higher quality' units.


_Modified by the brit at 4:23 PM 11-16-2007_


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*

Cool am looking right now for coil over parts. this place was suggested to me buy a guy at Ground control (don't know why) http://www.colemanracing.com/c...9_427
everything but the springs for $39.10 a side 








then the choice of 2.5" spring is open to choices
they have them also
http://www.colemanracing.com/c..._1009
I like the Eibach springs from ground control too
http://www.ground-control-stor...CA=31


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_http://www.colemanracing.com/c...9_427


Very nice link. That looks very like the actual stuff GC supplies, and at a good price too. It's also the single lower perch, instead of the two (to lock one against the other) piece style, which is nice. I wonder if the tops are VW bearing compatible - i've had an issue with that before.
I also had to machine (lathe) my upper spring hats to fit the Bilstein inserts before. Not a big deal, but annoying nevertheless.


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## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (snowfox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowfox* »_
What were the diameter and length specs on your springs... Completeness counts.









I believe the ID was 2.5" and length was 8"


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## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

One thing to keep in mind to pay attention to is the upper spring perch,hat and strut bearing seating/melding/fitment/whatever you want to call it. 
I ran into an issue with my were the hat ended up being a hair to wide, causing it to bind up in the strut bearing, so I had to make some lil spacers that tapered in to compensate for that.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (HiJinx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HiJinx* »_One thing to keep in mind to pay attention to is the upper spring perch,hat and strut bearing seating/melding/fitment/whatever you want to call it. 
I ran into an issue with my were the hat ended up being a hair to wide, causing it to bind up in the strut bearing, so I had to make some lil spacers that tapered in to compensate for that. 

Yup, i've had similar issues in the past.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_What spring rates did you chose, why and would you chose something different next time?

The first set I did was 300/200 7". Struts were Bilstein Sport 4K fronts and Bilstein HD (Sports not available) B3 Passat rears.
I got wise on the second set and upped the rear rate to 250 and chose the 6" springs front and rear. Still 4K Sports in the front, but Rabbit Sports in the rear. In the Audi Fox, I had to *build* 2" risers on the rear axle to get the ride height correct. If I had known about the Jamie mod, I would have chopped the front housings and slammed the car.
I removed this setup from my Audi Fox about two years ago and sold it to DBG, then installed it on his Saveiro project. I shortened his towers by about 3" to get the rake he wanted. 
I think that the Jamie mod in front combined with Rabbit Sport rears would produce a nicely slammed VW Fox witht he struts approximately in the middle of their travel. I am working on lowering the Quantum right now. The front setup is the Jamie mod sans perch cutting with Bilstein Rabbit Sport front struts, H&R 4KQ rear springs and stock Quantum upper perches. This has produced zero fender gap when the top of the tire is viewed from straight ahead and the illusion of tuck due to the fender over-hanging the tire.
Pic of Quantum setup:










_Modified by Longitudinal at 7:04 PM 11-16-2007_


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_everything but the springs for $39.10 a side 

Per end? As in "$39.10 for the front and $39.10 for the rear?" If so, wow, 'cause I have lots of springs sitting around. 


_Modified by Longitudinal at 6:48 PM 11-16-2007_


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
Per end? As in "$39.10 for the front and $39.10 for the rear?" If so, wow, 'cause I have lots of springs sitting around. 

_Modified by Longitudinal at 6:48 PM 11-16-2007_

I think it's per corner i.e. 4 x $39.10.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the brit* »_
I think it's per corner i.e. 4 x $39.10.
 yep is is each. so you need 4 of them also the springs need to be 2.5" id to work.

OK we have seen the Mod, Jamie did to his struts looks good. But this is my take and my plan we will call it the Banned strut mod (we can call them what we want but they are all copies of what Brazilians have done for years) 
First my mod starts out the same as Jamie's.
First you get out all of your fun measuring tools and start taking notes








ok all measured up








next get a set of strut inserts of your choice. I chose the bilstein MK1 sports
















measure the difference between the old stock struts and the new
















ok time to start cutting! first the spring perch








then one more final cut mark the tube in a few places so you get the alignment of the steering arm back correctly








cut off 2" and toss it 








now the big twist in my version flip the whole thing over now and re weld 








Now you have a strut housing that is 2" shorter and has 1 1/2 " more room for a longer threaded sleeve. 
all done 








now just add any threaded sleeve coil over kit of your choice








Flipped tie rod end








this is my plan so far. I have the struts now and am ordering coil over parts and springs this week i hope
this is my plan i have been pondering for a wile now. (there are different versions for my air ride set up in my other fox)











_Modified by Banned wagon at 10:52 AM 11-17-2007_


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## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

banned my friend you are brilliant! i can't wait to do this on a fox now.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

I choose to call this update: The Jamie Mod Part B(anned).


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

A heathenous thought, but... what if I want to do coilovers without lowering the car?
I mean, I kinda like the ride height of my stock wagon, it's easy for me to get in and out of.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Ric,
Interesting take on the mod. I assume you are doing this to preserve tie rod geometry?
Why not make one more cut and re-use the existing threads? cut off the threaded part, cut off 2" from just below that, make your cut at the bottom of the housing, then flip over the section with the steering arm, leaving the threads up top where they belong and re-weld everything?
For those who plan to do this mod on their own, a pipe cutter works beautifully to cut the housings. It's worth a trip to Sears or even HF if you don't already have one. I was lucky enough to have one.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_Ric,
Interesting take on the mod. I assume you are doing this to preserve tie rod geometry?
Why not make one more cut and re-use the existing threads? cut off the threaded part, cut off 2" from just below that, make your cut at the bottom of the housing, then flip over the section with the steering arm, leaving the threads up top where they belong and re-weld everything?

Doing it this way (the flip way) will allow an extra 1" of drop without having to do more cutting and welding.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the brit* »_
Doing it this way (the flip way) will allow an extra 1" of drop without having to do more cutting and welding.

You mean Ric's way or my suggestion? I was making the suggestion mainly to prevent having to buy a 50*1.5 die. 
Here are pics of the Jamie modded housings:


















_Modified by Longitudinal at 9:23 AM 11-17-2007_


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_Ric,
Why not make one more cut and re-use the existing threads? cut off the threaded part, cut off 2" from just below that, make your cut at the bottom of the housing, then flip over the section with the steering arm, leaving the threads up top where they belong and re-weld everything?
.

Re using the original thread was the way i was going to to this mod from the start, but the machine shop down the street can re thread the top for me for cheap. So one less weld sounded good to me.








Like this for ya 


































_Modified by Banned wagon at 10:36 AM 11-17-2007_


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

This is all very good info.
Now I wonder what I can do with these?











_Modified by DubbinChris at 12:55 PM 11-17-2007_


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## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Before I sold my wagon I had planned on doing something very similar.My plan was to cut just below the top threads and just above the arm,flip and weld,thus preserving the strut length. Also was going to have collars made that would have fit the Brazilian springs I had.Reason for this method was you could still use stock pieces, raise and lower to desired height(slammed or 4x4).Because we all know the lower a Fox is, the better it looks.

















_Modified by blkparati at 6:55 PM 11-17-2007_


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## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Some Brazilian Air








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijqlhTIwKd0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBBJ6CH14fo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kArdNa8idtc


_Modified by blkparati at 10:34 PM 11-17-2007_


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## Fox-N-It (Jul 23, 2003)

I would almost think your tie rod will be too low after the flip.....
With out flipping you can lay a BX or B2 on its frame rails. How much lower do you really need to go. Jamies car sitting all the way down is almost un-drivable its so low. I haven't tried slamming my car down that far yet.


----------



## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (Fox-N-It)*

Right about here


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Fox-N-It)*

I didn't invent this idea (i have a brazilian friend who translates for me) 
this is a really common mod down there this is a brazilian flipped tie rod and coil over set up. If any thing the the flip will help keep the tie rod closer to the factory elevation. and cause less bump steer.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (blkparati)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blkparati* »_Right about here

















yep that's a good height


----------



## B.P. (May 26, 2007)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Anyone actually running a setup like this, pics????


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (B.P.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B.P.* »_Anyone actually running a setup like this, pics????

yea lots of people in Brazil! 
in north America the closest set up would be Brits that we know of.
I will be soon! hopefully.
Oh and a bit more info 
if you want even more drop!! you need to find a shorter strut insert
like this one from Koni.
The 8610-1436 are 290mm (11.42") housing length 
Page 11:
http://www.koni-na.com/pdfcata...g.pdf
that's about 3" shorter then stock fox insert
VW Fox stock (confab) struts are 14 3/8"
MK1 bilstein sports F4-P30-0032M0 are 12 1/2" give or take a 1/32"nd




_Modified by Banned wagon at 4:42 PM 11-18-2007_


----------



## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

Okay, so, when Ground Control lists a price for a coilover kit, does that include enough pieces to do one end of the car, front or back? Or is that a whole-car kit?


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*

Ground control has no "kit" for the VW Fox per say but the do have parts that will work for it 
this kit from them is all for corners 
http://www.ground-control-stor...CA=65


----------



## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Right right. So... time to trawl threads and figure up which parts work. Unless you were giving me a huge hint and telling me that the A1 parts work.








Newbish questions, but then it's true; I'm both a suspension and Fox newb.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbinepowered* »_Right right. So... time to trawl threads and figure up which parts work. Unless you were giving me a huge hint and telling me that the A1 parts work.








Newbish questions, but then it's true; I'm both a suspension and Fox newb.
















hint hint 

Specify some spring rates when ordering, you will. Read thread again hum. Information you are seeking, find will you.


----------



## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Another variation for those with mad fab skills.Instead of cutting just grind arm off and weld on a new one.


































































_Modified by blkparati at 4:16 AM 11-20-2007_


----------



## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (blkparati)*

Blk,
This is your work or somebody else's? It's nice work, but I don't see the benefits over moving the existing and very strong steering arm.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (blkparati)*

OK cool I likely but i wonder about the tapered hole for the tie rod end?








I do see one benefit from this arm set up is more room for adjustment of the spring perch due to a thinner profile arm.



_Modified by Banned wagon at 8:27 PM 11-19-2007_


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

But it's not moved down any...?









That much welding/fabbing is beyond what I trust my skills to do on suspension components!!


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the brit* »_But it's not moved down any...?









That much welding/fabbing is beyond what I trust my skills to do on suspension components!!









But they did shorten the arm witch my have to be done for clearance on the wheels. yet to be seen on my set up.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (blkparati)*

OK after looking over the pic's you posted. I am thinking that this nasty looking metal doughnut piece is cut from the factory steering arm 








then welded in to a new shortened, dropped, or what ever steering arm











_Modified by Banned wagon at 6:44 AM 11-20-2007_


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_OK after looking over the pic's you posted. I am thinking that this nasty looking metal doughnut piece is cut from the factory steering arm 

then welded in to a new shortened, dropped, or what ever steering arm


Definitely!
I love that we're really pushing the Fox envelope again with all this new stuff! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (the brit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the brit* »_
Definitely!
I love that we're really pushing the Fox envelope again with all this new stuff! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

x2....
very interesting stuff.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*

OK more info and research 
After looking and measuring my Fox's.
It looks like with some ET wheels if you bring down the steering arm it will make contact with the tire!








so to fix this you need to rotate your steering arm in a bit to clear the tire and wheel. BUT if you rotate the arm in, you cause two problems. the tie rods are too long . The other problem is your lock to lock steering will be diminished a bit. 








so to fix these problems
you need to shorten the steering arm like this guy did.









the angles of the steering arm and tie rod maintained. and the steering ratio and lock to lock turning radius.









oh Jaime? what ET and how wide are you front wheels.


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_
oh Jaime? what ET and how wide are you front wheels.

My wheels are 8" wide, with a 20ET.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*

OK clocked the strut towers to see just how much i am looking at having to more the steering arm


----------



## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

hmm. Geometry is fun!


----------



## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

Ok, I'm no genious here but I would have to say that changing the length and clock of the steering arm is going to have a negative effect on your ackerman. (inside wheel rolls on a smaller radius than the outside wheel in a turn a.k.a. you want your inner wheel turned sharper than the outside) I haven't looked closely at it but I know it will change your steering geometry. You might be in for some tire scrub if things get too out of control.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (DubbyDriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubbyDriver* »_Ok, I'm no genious here but I would have to say that changing the length and clock of the steering arm is going to have a negative effect on your ackerman. (inside wheel rolls on a smaller radius than the outside wheel in a turn a.k.a. you want your inner wheel turned sharper than the outside) I haven't looked closely at it but I know it will change your steering geometry. You might be in for some tire scrub if things get too out of control.

????


----------



## BillLeBob (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

I suspected at some point the steering arms would need canted in for clearance. Jamie gets away with out it due to "silly" offset wheels.


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (BillLeBob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BillLeBob* »_I suspected at some point the steering arms would need canted in for clearance. Jamie gets away with out it due to "silly" offset wheels. 

It's the silly tires that makes the big difference.. My wheels are 8" wide, so a 20mm change in offset wouldn't overcome that alone..


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (BillLeBob)*

Ok this is my plan (just think of this as a white board, not a blue print)








rotate and shorten the arms preserves all the stock geometry 










_Modified by Banned wagon at 7:18 AM 11-21-2007_


----------



## twarch (Mar 15, 2007)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

OK, I'm no engineer, but if you shorten the length of your steering arms (centerline to centerline) bringing them closer to the axis of rotation, then it seems to me that X amount of movement of the steering wheel will create MORE wheel turn than with the stock length arms. 
Think big, long lever, versus small, short lever.
In other words, the shorter than stock the new steering arms are, the more responsive or twitchy the steering might get. Maybe good in small doses, but potentially dangerous if overdone...

Anyone else think this is correct?


_Modified by twarch at 9:05 PM 11-21-2007_


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (twarch)*

thanks for the input that's what i am hoping this thread will be a place for all of us to brain storm. 
All of the adjustments of angle and length to the arms, would be as minimal as possible.








I am not sure am going to make new steering arms right now. I think i will just rotate the stock ones to clear my wheels & tires. Drive it for a wile to see how much the lock to lock loss in steering and changes in responsiveness.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Work real work..*

Did some actual work today cut off the spring hats 
























all cleaned up 
























now if I was doing normal fox coil overs, the next step would be to cut the coil sleeves to fit 








the strut retaining cap also holds on the threaded sleeve.
the sleeves i got have a recess that fit the bilstein strut cap perfectly
























all assembled 








the top spring hat








I tested the top s







spring hat in the stock strut bearing. 








it needed a small (1/8" washer)spacer to rotate freely








now all I need is a spring. Bolt it all back together and install. 
Disassembled it all again. ready to start chopping and welding


----------



## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: Work real work.. (Banned wagon)*

Those are very nice. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (blkparati)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blkparati* »_Those are very nice. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








 
thanks for the tip
oh and the shortened steering arms are going to be a blatant copy of this guys work. http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...t=800


----------



## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (Banned wagon)*

BW, and Derek's shortening is a copy of others. That idea has been around long enough that nobody knows whose idea it was in the first place. You could probably shorten the steering arms an inch without feeling any substantial increase in steering effort. And even if you did, that's just bonus PT while you drive.
The Coleman sleeves are very nice. For the price, they are unbeatable.


_Modified by Longitudinal at 7:22 AM 11-22-2007_


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (Longitudinal)*

Well had a busy day today
cut out some 1/2' plate








Drilled some holes
















cut the stock arm off








getting the tapered bung for the tie rod out of the stamped steel took a little effort
































































ok time to chop
























i would have used a pipe cutter to cut it but i cut the section on tube out where the steering arm was.
























all mocked up
















































All tig welded up 








































































more to come


----------



## Fox-N-It (Jul 23, 2003)

Looks great!
What spring rates are you thinking?


----------



## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: (Fox-N-It)*

damn thats some crazy stuff. props to you i can't wait to see how low your going to be able to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: (ryubiggie)*

that'll do!

I'm glad you're doing this, and that you speak passable english!


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (jackfrost1031)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jackfrost1031* »_that'll do!

I'm glad you're doing this, and that you speak passable English!

i speak English just fine thank you.. some of the grammar Nazi's on the vortex don't really like my writing of English sometimes. i just let the pictures do the talking most of the time.
hum a turkey sandwich lunch








oh back to the coil overs
























some etch primer
















and paint
















































and reassembled




















































_Modified by Banned wagon at 3:53 PM 11-25-2007_


----------



## BillLeBob (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

I object to your choice of color. However, I do not object to the down right badassness of the location of the tapered tie-rod end insert.
This is still going to be used with your "off road" BJ extenders right? Whoa nellly, I said BJ extender!


_Modified by BillLeBob at 11:54 PM 11-25-2007_


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (BillLeBob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BillLeBob* »_I object to your choice of color. 

oh well its a color i had and its track tested too. LOL

















_Quote, originally posted by *BillLeBob* »_
This is still going to be used with your "off road" BJ extenders right? 

 
yep to get the A arms back level. Depending on what springs i choose this should be one good handling Fox.


----------



## Germany_MOM (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Did you just lay the tapered insert directly atop the new steering arm? Was there a reason for not flush-mounting it?
I don't foresee a problem unless you ever have to cut the nut off the tie rod end.


----------



## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

That's hot.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (TeraFox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TeraFox* »_Did you just lay the tapered insert directly atop the new steering arm? Was there a reason for not flush-mounting it?
I don't foresee a problem unless you ever have to cut the nut off the tie rod end.

ahh yea i moved the the steering arm down about 2" so to keep the tie rods at the same level and prevent bump steer. I fllpped them and top mounted them.


----------



## Germany_MOM (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_
ahh yea i moved the the steering arm down about 2" so to keep the tie rods at the same level and prevent bump steer. I fllpped them and top mounted them.


OK, so is the tie rod at its original height after all the dust has settled? If so, is the tie rod going to be able to rub inside the wheel house if you drop it super hard? I remember oJ's picture of wheel house gouges after lowering the car "too far."


----------



## Sundie (Dec 15, 2004)

*Re: Coil-overs for a VW fox (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_I wonder how many potential Foxers are sent running in fear because they think something is difficult when it is actually quite simple.

Have you got that cold start injector working yet, young man?


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (TeraFox)*

Under hard drop is where i plan to run this so i set the steering rod to be at stock height with the car dropped most of the way down.








I haven't put this back on the car yet. but if i measured everything right it should not rub or hit any thing. 


_Modified by Banned wagon at 7:25 PM 11-26-2007_


----------



## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Quality work. Track tested can't go wrong!
http://****************.com/smile/star.gif http://****************.com/smile/star.gif http://****************.com/smile/star.gif http://****************.com/smile/star.gif http://****************.com/smile/halfstar.gif


----------



## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

Nice work.


----------



## gt40mkiv (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_but if i measured everything right it should rub or hit any thing. 


OH RLY?


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (gt40mkiv)*

Do you have a point or any helpful input. or are you just here to find my type oh's and spelling errors. If so you are in for a long long day my friend..


----------



## horvath (May 29, 2006)

first of all, props on the amazing looking coilovers. where did you get those coleman sleeves?


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_Cool am looking right now for coil over parts. this place was suggested to me buy a guy at Ground control (don't know why) http://www.colemanracing.com/c...9_427
everything but the springs for $39.10 a side 








then the choice of 2.5" spring is open to choices
they have them also
http://www.colemanracing.com/c..._1009
I like the Eibach springs from ground control too
http://www.ground-control-stor...CA=31


















 Page 1










_Modified by Banned wagon at 9:42 PM 11-26-2007_


----------



## horvath (May 29, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

thanks sorry i missed it the first time around


----------



## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: Work real work.. (Banned wagon)*

Here's your bushings. I had a bunch of fun turning them up (slow day @ work). Hope you like 'em.
































They'll be in the mail tomorrow morning.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (DubbyDriver)*

Wow thanks so much that's way better then what i was using








yea the top spring hat has a 20mm opening (even thought i told Colman when i ordered the coil over kit i was using bilsteins.) they offered to exchange them for me today via email. the ones they offered me have a 5/8" opening. i would still need a washer as a spacer. so i am keeping the ones i have now with the kick ass bushing made by Joel!!


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: Work real work.. (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_ so i am keeping the ones i have now with the kick ass bushing made by Joel!!

You'd better as they're so purdy! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Vinzwagen (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Work real work.. (Banned wagon)*

Very nice work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## westcoastwhips (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (Vinzwagen)*

Wow great thread! I've been outta the FOX forum for awhile as my Mk3 is taking all my time. Great post! Any updates?!


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (westcoastwhips)*

JOEL IS THE MAN! got the bushings today for my spring hats
















like a glove


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (westcoastwhips)*

_Modified by Banned wagon at 6:01 PM 12-7-2007_


----------



## westcoastwhips (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (Banned wagon)*

Nice!1 Whatch yah shootin with? Now throw them on I wanna see it on the deck!


----------



## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: Work real work.. (Banned wagon)*


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: Work real work.. (DubbyDriver)*

I pressed in new bearings today








and hubs








all done

















some rotors

























now all i need is some new springs


----------



## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

Wow, you are an inspiration. That thing is going to be new. Are those 10.1"?


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (DubbyDriver)*

I have the rear sleeves now. i ordered springs today. so soon i will have updates and pic's soon.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

as i said 
























































see i have all four corners now i will have the springs this week.


----------



## Kinavo (Dec 20, 2005)

that looks beautiful!!


----------



## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: (Kinavo)*

and how much would you be willing to sale those things for, say if maybe someone wanted to buy a set you put together/made?


----------



## adrian8426 (Dec 30, 2007)

Those look amazin.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (ryubiggie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ryubiggie* »_and how much would you be willing to sale those things for, say if maybe someone wanted to buy a set you put together/made?

well lets see if they work to start with...


----------



## FoxSt (Jan 22, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_
well lets see if they work to start with...









If they don't I'd be willing to offer on them as modern art








When they _do_ work though, the bar will have been raised to a new level for sure!


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_
well lets see if they work to start with...









Oh, they'll work.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*

Wow! UPS ground delivered my springs in one day! 









front 7" 350
rear 7" 250


----------



## TRIPSS (Dec 29, 2004)

What was the total cost for the set-up?


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (TRIPSS)*

Humm (looks around over shoulder for wife)
The total for Rabbit Bilstein Sport front inserts and rear shocks is $432 including shipping For our very own Brit
Coil over parts from http://www.Colemanracing.com.com
Front 5" Coil-Over Kit (2.04 I.D.) [420-501]$78.20
Rear 7" Coil-Over Kit (2.04 I.D.) [420-701] $97.40
Springs from http://www.Ground-control.com  267.11
Total parts
$874.71

About the same price as this kit http://www.ground-control-stor...I=111











_Modified by Banned wagon at 2:03 PM 1-15-2008_


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_Humm (looks around over shoulder for wife)










Sounds like my world...
I can't wait to see this project complete in person.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (snowfox)*

well i assembled them when i got home the fronts are perfect. I am thinking i need longer rears or some of the small helper springs i have seen on other coil overs
Fronts
























Rears
































this is the small helper type spring i am thinking of? 








The spring is about 2" short. it is a 7" 200lb spring. I will call Ground Control in the morning to see if i can exchange them for a different spring. So do i need to change the rate while I make the spring longer?


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Humm. some learning.. http://e30m3performance.com/te...x.htm


----------



## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_Humm. some learning.. http://e30m3performance.com/te...x.htm

thats a good little read. i'd think about a little helper spring. maybe of say 100lbs's or about 75 lbs. just some so when you going slow on a normal day you hit a little bump it's used up in the 75lbs spring. but when you really want it you have the 200. i know this is not real world, but in forza 2 you can get a 91 gti 16v. i have run your spring rates and it's a bit on the soft side. the car seems to love about 450' in the front and about 300's in the rear with out much sway bar. i know it's just a game but still maybe something to think about.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (ryubiggie)*

The car is a daily driver so softer is what i ran with. Also also a 91 gti is a lot heaver they my emptied out fox.


----------



## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

Hmm. My GC kit said that Cable ties should be used to hold the springs to the perches. Would this serve the same purpose as the helper spring? It would also allow you to jack the car up with only a couple inches of jack travel. Would you use longer springs in general? It looks like you are on the very end of your highside adjustment. Well, good luck. I think I just confused things more. Whoops.
P.S. Don't change the rate. Same rate longer spring. Length controls ride height. Rate controls handling. You can have the same handling at multiple ride heights (barring effects of the ride height on suspension geometry)


_Modified by DubbyDriver at 8:49 AM 1-16-2008_


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_ So do i need to change the rate while I make the spring longer?


Ric-
If GC lists the springs by rate (lbs/in), stick with the same rate in a longer length. If they are listing it by diameter, #coils, wire diameter, free height, & solid height, you'll have some tweaking to do. Check out the spring calculator at Century Spring on line. I know, they're not strictly automotive - but it can be a handy tool to help make the most informed selection.
http://www.centuryspring.com/C...h.jsp
Chances are that GC doesn't expect its customers to be engineers, so they will probably set you up with the correct solution after a little discussion with them.
Hope that helps-


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (snowfox)*

Ok am exchanging the rears for a 10" 200lb spring. also might pick up some helper springs.


----------



## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_The car is a daily driver so softer is what i ran with. Also also a 91 gti is a lot heaver they my emptied out fox.


this is true but i also did the weight redutions to make it match a fox as close as i could. gears in the tranny everything i could i tried to match the best i could. the only thing is i could not put a lower power motor in it.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (ryubiggie)*

Are you really suggesting I set up my cars Suspension based on a video game?


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_Are you really suggesting I set up my cars Suspension based on a video game?









Kinda sounds that way. Maybe he has a VR chair that is providing feedback on just how brutally that would ride for a DD...
I sense a new business venture beginning - "Forza Tuning" Hmm...


----------



## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

Video games have brainwashed society.








Page 5 is mine!


----------



## HiJinx (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re:*

I agree with what he said!


----------



## CStockRun (Mar 25, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_

if you want even more drop!! you need to find a shorter strut insert
like this one from Koni.
The 8610-1436 are 290mm (11.42") housing length 
Page 11:
http://www.koni-na.com/pdfcata...g.pdf
that's about 3" shorter then stock fox insert
VW Fox stock (confab) struts are 14 3/8"
MK1 bilstein sports F4-P30-0032M0 are 12 1/2" give or take a 1/32"nd
_Modified by Banned wagon at 4:42 PM 11-18-2007_


Those Koni's are around $210.00 Each..ouch...







. On the upside, they are externally adjustable (rebound) ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (CStockRun)*

Ya got to pay to play..


----------



## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_Ya got to pay to play..









And I was so excited for a picture update.


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (DubbyDriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubbyDriver* »_
And I was so excited for a picture update.









You just had to say that, didn't you? Get ready for the major downpour... I don't know if it's necessarily a good idea to ask Ric for pics.


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## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (snowfox)*

It's gon rain! -family guy
I hope.


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## Windowlicker (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (DubbyDriver)*

Ric's been busy in the shop working on the body kit. He won't even show me pics







Course I'll be down there to inspect on Friday. (aka get him to help me pull some front bearings cause he's got a cool tool)








edit: here's a suspension pic for ya









_Modified by Windowlicker at 3:33 PM 1-30-2008_


_Modified by Windowlicker at 3:33 PM 1-30-2008_


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## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

SO effing clean


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## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

Noice! My picture addiction has been satisfied . . . for now.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (DubbyDriver)*

Yea them are cute Anders. 
So i got the last few parts today for my coils.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.c...=1876
























all assembled ready for some new brake parts
































OK i am done picture whoring for now....

_Modified by Banned wagon at 9:56 PM 1-30-2008_


_Modified by Banned wagon at 1:56 PM 1-31-2008_


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## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

i was going to ask what rate you went with but you posted the link so nvm. they look nice on there. the set-up looks so effing pro it's crazy. brakes are next hmmm i wonder.


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## LiTtLeGuYWiThGTi (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*



Banned wagon
[IMG said:


> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/bannedwagon/suspension/IMG_2606.jpg[/IMG]
> _Modified by Banned wagon at 9:56 PM 1-30-2008_


sooo if i gave u about 3 million dollars. could u make me an exact set of custom coilovers for my fox too??
any pictures of the suspension on ur fox? i wanna see how low u got this thing..


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (LiTtLeGuYWiThGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LiTtLeGuYWiThGTi* »_

sooo if i gave u about 3 million dollars. could u make me an exact set of custom coilovers for my fox too??
any pictures of the suspension on ur fox? i wanna see how low u got this thing..










Sure for 3 million i will even powder coat them for ya.

Well the picture of them on my bench was taken 1/30/2008 at 7:30pm PST... sorry they are not on the car yet. I am going to get some new brake parts on them first.


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## DubbyDriver (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

I'm sorry I ever questioned your picture whoring ability. I'm almost in tears. Thank you.







sniff sniff.


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## CStockRun (Mar 25, 2005)

*Re: (DubbyDriver)*

If you demand perfection, this is the way to go...I wouldn't wanna get all of those nice parts dirty by driving the car except maybe to shows. Definitely an awesome job when you have the money/resources to do this to your suspension...I really cant wait to see the final product when your wagon is all done.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (CStockRun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CStockRun* »_I really cant wait to see the final product when your wagon is all done.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


For the fourth time in this thread!
*these are not for my wagon project! they are going on my white 4door *


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## CStockRun (Mar 25, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Must have missed that part...sorry.


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## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: (CStockRun)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CStockRun* »_Must have missed that part...sorry.


don't sweet it i missed it also


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## Hey Porter (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_ 










Lookie what I found for the next time......
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDe...%2D11


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (Hey Porter)*

So didn't you (banned wagon) have neuspeed lowering springs on your car at some point? If so, where will they be going once you put those coils on?


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

I had the nuespeed springs on my old blue wagon. 
the car with nuespeed springs 








i used the strut towers to make the coil overs, 








nuespeed springs are on the bench chill'en.








till i can get them in my new blue wagon.








the original banned wagon is now sitting in my garage with no suspension on it waiting for me to build a air ride setup








OH and the coil overs?








*Are going on this car*












_Modified by Banned wagon at 9:39 PM 2-2-2008_


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_nuespeed springs are on the bench chill'en.

Darn, I was hoping we could make a deal to have them chillin on MY bench.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*

OK so i finally got some time to install the coil overs. ran into a few challenges some were expected some were a surprise.
the first snag was the steering arms and shorting the tie rods.
first i cut down a the tie rod ends a bit and the rods them selves about 1" total shorter
















the next snag was a surprise! i installed the strut towers in the car and cycled the springs up and down a few times with a floor jack. found out when the helper spring are fully compressed, the spring coupler binds on the top hat and just stays that way. so i pulled it all apart.
pry ed the spring loose. then ground a little off the top hat and the spring coupler till they no longer bind up
























all happy now

Gave the break shields a quick blast then some paint 
















well that's all for today, hopefully i can get it all done this weekend.


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*

So effin sweet! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Video link doesn't seem to work BTW.


_Modified by DubbinChris at 12:17 PM 2-16-2008_


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_OK so i finally got some time to install the coil overs. ran into a few challenges some were expected some were a surprise.
the first snag was the steering arms and shorting the tie rods.
first i cut down a the tie rod ends a bit and the rods them selves about 1" total shorter









I had to do the same thing too.. Any idea of the geometry that's going on to cause that?


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*

Ok that was a fun day of work. I caught my shoe on fire, the shop is a mess and my back hurts...but the Coil overs are all in.
























































didn't really go smoothly. had to trim and grind a few different spots.
well with the rear all the way down the exhaust is sitting on the ground and the floor boards are about 3/4" off the ground.








I raised the rear a bit. went for drive. well it handles good still need to tune in and realign. oh and the S10 spoiler dint make it out of the drive way...
well it was dark when i finished so the pictures i got are kinda Sukey. i will get some better ones in the morning


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## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

holy stupid low batman. 
so where did you get your tires?


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (ryubiggie)*

Tire rack.com had them in two days!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...ace=0


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## ryubiggie (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_Tire rack.com had them in two days!
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...ace=0


thank you sir!
one more node for your Brazilianly low fox http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Nice!!!


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (jackfrost1031)*


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Well i was working in the shop i installed the old nuespeed springs and Bilstine set up in my other Wagon.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

Love it. Seriously. It's got me excited like when we first lowered mine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## oRANGEJULIUS (Jul 30, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

beautiful http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sdsScotty (Feb 5, 2005)

*Re: (oRANGEJULIUS)*

banned wagon, that white 4dr is so low and good looking.
well played


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## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Absolutley amazing,now this is how to do it right.This whole thread has re-inspired me to look harder for a new Fox


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## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (blkparati)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blkparati* »_Absolutley amazing,now this is how to do it right.This whole thread has re-inspired me to look harder for a new Fox









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I was wondering how long it would take...








Welcome back.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (snowfox)*

the one thing i haven't really talked about with these coil over that i love the most is the new steering ratio.Now that i have logged a few more miles on this set up. If you think the fox drove like a big go cart before, All i can say is WOW. the the new shortened steering arms make the car even funner to drive. It not twitchy at all. just a lot more tight.








(Wow i posted with out any pictures, can i do that..)


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## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_
(Wow i posted with out any pictures, can i do that..)

HELLZ NOE!!!!
(Must be the after effects of gettin' whumped by the F250.







)


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## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (snowfox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowfox* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I was wondering how long it would take...








Welcome back.

Thanks.I don't seem to get on the computer much these days


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## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

I forgot to ask how the handling was with your new set up.Glad to here that this is tight and precise.The one thing I did notice when I went to coils was how it had a habit of wandering alittle on the freeway.
Oh yea,I just read your E-mail about the body kit.I will get back to you on about it.










_Modified by blkparati at 3:43 AM 2-24-2008_


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (blkparati)*


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## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

^^^^^
Subtlety is a virtue.


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## magicninja (Sep 30, 2007)

are you making another set ?


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (magicninja)*

not right now.


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## LiTtLeGuYWiThGTi (Aug 3, 2002)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

man, wut i would do for a set of coilovers for my fox..
ur collection is lookin mighty fine!









as soon as i get some nice pix, ill be postin some of my baby..


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## GreenGoblin (Mar 28, 2004)

Very nice work Banned. It's certainly inspiring, I wish I could dedicate myself to a project as amazing as yours!


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## vagrant_mugen (Jun 13, 2006)

very nice work on the coilovers. i need somthing similar for the front struts on my 93 coupe. im converting it to quattro w/ a 16vT this year. i would be very interested in a pair of the front units.


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## Murnau (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: (vagrant_mugen)*

Ric:
Sorry if this has been discussed - I've read the thread a couple times over the past few weeks and haven't seen anything.
Coleman has several sizes available on their coilover kits - which is the proper one for this setup?
This thread needs to be FAQ'ed!


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## Vinzwagen (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (Murnau)*

Can we get this thread put in to the FAQS if it is not already?
Very good information and ideas here for the fabricators among us.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Murnau)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Murnau* »_Ric:
Sorry if this has been discussed - I've read the thread a couple times over the past few weeks and haven't seen anything.
Coleman has several sizes available on their coilover kits - which is the proper one for this setup?
This thread needs to be FAQ'ed!

i used the 5" for the fronts and 7" for the rear. 
http://www.colemanracing.com/c...905ec
http://www.colemanracing.com/c...=1525


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

I'm bumping this thread up because I want to know why the Coleman upper perches have the pins and C-clips. What good does it serve to be able to slip the upper perch off in such a way?


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_I'm bumping this thread up because I want to know why the Coleman upper perches have the pins and C-clips. What good does it serve to be able to slip the upper perch off in such a way?

yea i have no idea what the C-clips are for. try this http://www.colemanracing.com/c...s.php


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Care to speculate as to why they would cut the slot in the perch? It seems to be designed for quick removal from the side, instead of disassembling everything above the perch, but what would be the point in being able to remove the perch this way?
My only guess is that their upper perch design is a carry-over from a different use for the perches, like RWD-style shocks that have those metal sleeve-like things at one end of the shock to act as dust boots. In this case, the perch would need a slot to be installed on the strut.
My guess on the C clip is that is retains the upper perch on a shock with a different design to keep the upper perch from dislocating (falling down) when the car is off the ground. Again, this idea only works for a different shock design.
I emailed them. We'll see.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*

Colman is a race car parts supplier, not a VW/Audi parts supplier they just happen to have parts that i liked. the main reason I used them is ground control's customer service was rude and unhelpful to me. I ordered the rear shock top with just a hole not a slot. you can order the front strut top with out the notch as well (just takes a little longer).


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Yes, GC are a bunch of ball washers. I hope I never have to deal with them again.
What is the point of the bronze bushings? Was it only that the hole in the upper perch was too big?


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_Yes, GC are a bunch of ball washers. I hope I never have to deal with them again.
What is the point of the bronze bushings? Was it only that the hole in the upper perch was too big?

I believe so. I had my upper perches machined to match the bilsteins.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*

Yea the bushings solved two problems. the hole was too big and the pitch of the spring hat that was rubbing the upper strut bearings. it was cheaper to use the bushing. Colman was willing to take the spring hats back and machine me some that would work.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (the brit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the brit* »_
I believe so. I had my upper perches machined to match the bilsteins.

Jamie, I think we're talking about two different machining tasks. I am thinking you had to enlarge the hole, like I did with two sets of SRS coil overs. Ric actually needed a smaller hole.
Yes, I forgot about the strut bearing interference. I ground the skirts on the mounts until the bearing had clearance.


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## philsburydonuts (Feb 25, 2006)

*Re: (oRANGEJULIUS)*

sorry to bring this back from the dead... but wow!!!! you sir, are amazing!!! will you biukd me some strut housings like that??? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (philsburydonuts)*

good deal glad you like it. Hope all the info in this thread (not just my input but all contributors) is of help. I am working on another version of this coil overs. when i resume work on my car related projects late this march i will have more info. but as it looks now the new mod will allow another 50mm lower then this mod while maintaining level steering arms.


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## philsburydonuts (Feb 25, 2006)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Well keep us posted cause this kinda stuff is awesome!!! I might be getting a fox real soon here so I want to build some coilovers of my own. not as extreme as yours, but something like it. Well I wont be doing the welding







my cousin will. He already built me a custom narrowed beam for my bug. I will try to find pictures of it.
your car is just dumped silly... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ComradePie (Jul 28, 2008)

So... Sorry to ask, but what are ET wheels? It looks like everything someone with a brain (although not necessarily me) needs to put these together is here. Kudos on the good work! It should be FAQ-ed, as I'm sure it will be.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (ComradePie)*

ET is the measurement of offset in a particular wheel 
"The offset is described by the term ET, which is from the German word 'Einpresstiefe' translated as 'insertion depth'."
http://www.driverstechnology.c...t.htm


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## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (ComradePie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ComradePie* »_So... Sorry to ask, but what are ET wheels? 

Most frequently, ET's wheels are known to be early 80's BMX bikes with milk crates attached to the front. Generally chauffered by young, male earthlings...


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (snowfox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowfox* »_
Most frequently, ET's wheels are known to be early 80's BMX bikes

'80s BMX owns all.


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## ComradePie (Jul 28, 2008)

*Re: (snowfox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowfox* »_
Most frequently, ET's wheels are known to be early 80's BMX bikes with milk crates attached to the front. Generally chauffered by young, male earthlings...









Yeah... But did ET put a coilover kit on Elliot's bike?


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## VWFOX407 (May 10, 2007)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*

http://bmxmuseum.com/ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: (VWFOX407)*

that tears it i'm picking up an extra set of front struts and doing this, the chopped eibachs just aint gonna cut it. so my question is could you maybe post up some of the final dimensions on the steering arms and where they sit? this is the best write up i've seen on this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (lilgreydentwagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lilgreydentwagen* »_that tears it i'm picking up an extra set of front struts and doing this, the chopped eibachs just aint gonna cut it. so my question is could you maybe post up some of the final dimensions on the steering arms and where they sit? this is the best write up i've seen on this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I just put up a set of modified housings for sale in the classifieds section. They are shortened for Rabbit inserts and ready for coil overs. If you want, let's talk.


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## 4doorgoodness (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

sweet rides, if you ever put any of your fox's up on the market let me know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*STOP*

*This thread is all you need to know about coil-overs on a VW Fox *


----------

