# Small Issue Polishing Wheels...



## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

Hi,
I recently landed a good deal on a set of Le Castellets. They need work. So I downloaded some sort of "Wheel Polishing 101" from Vortex and went to town.
I have the clear coat off. The wheels look pretty good. The directions say to start off with 100-grit for scratches. I didn't think I needed to start that rough; so I started with 320-grit. I'm getting a weird pattern on the wheel:
















You can see the shine starting on the part that WASN'T sanded away. But why the different "color" in the middle and along the edges? It's smooth... just different. Is this perhaps a difference where the clear coat is still imbedded in the metal "pores"? Perhaps I DO need to hit the whole wheel with rougher paper?
Any good tips are appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott


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## ThatGuy (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (Stealth_TDI)*

first off you still have the tires one, shouldn't
second, i would say there is still clear coat on it
i would taket he tire off, and hit it with a sandblaster or get them dipped to strip the clear


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## Moe Sizlack (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (ThatGuy)*

nevermind it's easier to polish them with the tires off, but you need to grind on that curbrash


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## GriffinMoss (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (ThatGuy)*

Yep, you still have clearcoat on there. Should've used 100 grit to start.
Take tires to tire shop, remove tires, then start again. Sandblasting helps too.


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## makenramen (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (Stealth_TDI)*

you just need to keep sanding. maybe go back to a heavier grit; it's possible to keep going from the grit your at, but it will take a bit longer. 
if i were you i'd drop down to something heavier, and knock it down so that it's all the same, then start going up, that's the purpose of the heavier grit is to take off that layer of clear coating and what not. once that's gone, the other sandpapers are what do the actual polishing.
good luck


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (corstarxxx)*

Hi,
Thanks for the input. Since used two rounds of a paint stripper _(30-minutes a piece)_, I didn't think there was any clearcoat left _(no more bubbling)_. I have another batch of stripper that should work better. I also had the tires removed today. The other directions mentioned it wasn't necessary. But this will work out alright. Pep Boys only charged me $7.88 to dismount all 5 tires.








I have some 100-grit sand paper. I'll strip more in the morning, then go nuts with the sand paper in the afternoon, continuing through the weekend. Oh, I was working on the curb rash using a cordless drill and a sanding disc. Darn battery died; so it was on the charger before I could finish this lip. Now that the tires are removed, I'll just hit it with my orbital sander. I'll continue as advised here and let you know how it turns out.
Thanks Again,
Scott


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (Stealth_TDI)*

just a few tips i dont know what wheel polishing 101 thing you read, but all the ones i read say the same thing for the most part which is false.'
sand the wheels to 600 grit wet. and then STOP there is NO POINT in sanding further.
Get a 6" treated cotton buff on a roatary buffing machine and use the brown compound on it, work that for a while this is the majority of your work.
Then get an 8" loose cotton wheel using white buffing compound. 
THe trick is HEAT when you buff. and do cross patterns ect, you will get it.
ANything that says you have to wet sand to 2000 grit or 1000 grit is a bunch of bull ****. b/c the 6" sewn cotton or sewn cotton treated buff w/ the brown compound will rip 400-600 grit sand scratchs right out. if you need more cutting power use the black compound on the sewn wheels.
check out http://www.caswellplating.com and educate your self to the buffing, i found ALOT of mis information.
i polished a set of montes and they came out sick and i can tell you i spent literally months on them from stripping all the paint to sanding to polishing to repainting and a few other things. so i'm not tlaking out of my butt but from experience http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (Banditt007)*

o yeah and when you are done, anything like a mothers aluminium polish or something will SCRATCH THE HELL out of your wheels, since the finish you got is much much much finer (mirror) than what it is made to brighten up.
wash the wheels w/ a natural lambs wool mitt w/ plenty of soapy water. also i went so far as to dry the wheels off w/ compressed air to minimize physical contact b/c they scratch so easily. 
hope this helped you some i dont know what kind of finish you are going for but for a mirror finish cleanliness is KEY. make sure nothing contaiminates anything. and remember alumnium dust is TOXIC so wear gloves and make sure if you arent wet sanding you have a GOOD air filtration devise to breathe through.


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (Banditt007)*

Hi,
This is a bit frustrating. I did a round of the Aircraft Stripper someone recommended. It knocked out a few areas where I KNEW I had a bit of clearcoat left. But there was NOTHING in the areas photographed above. Guys, I really think the wheels are clean. Yet I'm still pondering what's going on.
As recommended, I hit the wheel with 100-grit. Now the wheels are rough; but still the same discoloration. I ran out of daylight and will work more on this tomorrow. I sort of want to master just one wheel before screwing up the others.
Has anyone seen this before? Is it possible the clearcoat is still IN THE METAL and I just need to sand away enough metal to level it all out? Even after stripping, the wheels were nice and smooth _(but discolored)_. Now they quite rough. Is this how everyone has done it before? I feel like I'm working backwards... smooth, ROUGH, less-rough, smooth, smoother, glass....
Thanks,
Scott


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## Danno13 (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (Stealth_TDI)*

First off, get an electric sander, i used an osolating one, doesnt spin, just vibrates. You dont need stripper if you start with the right grit, we used 40,80,100,150,180,220,320,400,600,800,1000,1500,2000. The guy who said you dont need to go past 600 is partially right, buffing wheels will remove scratches made by sandpaper as low as 400. But to get the best shine go up to 2000. Once you reach 600 start your wetsanding, wd40 or water for lubricant, sanding now by hand with a block, not by electric. After that use a buffing wheel with compound on it, black start then finish with white. For my phonedials meguires billet polish did nothing, but for my friends 928's that we did, it did wonders
Pics for proof that my method works

















You can see my sander on the right


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (Danno13)*

Danny,
Thanks for the response. I do use an orbital sander. It's not a small one like yours. It's a 1/3-sheet sander. It seems to work sufficiently for the relatively flat Le Castellets. I'd certainly want a smaller one if I were working on a more-detailed wheel.
I will keep going with the 100-grit for a bit. The paper sure doesn't seem to last long. I will certainly be glad when all I need to do is hit it with a buffer from time to time. 
I will still work on just one wheel to make sure I have the hang of it first.
I originally bought the wheels for autocrossing. But these things may turn out to be so nice I'll want to run them on the street full time. I'm not really into "bling." But, since these are VW wheels, I can make an exception if the look is good. Once they're shined, I'll need to decide between running all-season tires or performance tires...
Thanks Again,
Scott


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## Danno13 (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Small Issue Polishing Wheels... (Stealth_TDI)*

What sand paper are you using, i had 3m stuff, and nortan 3x both lasted long enough for the grit to be finished on the wheel, but just keep at it and it will get the finish off, maybe get some courser stuff for the first step, will take less time. And make sure you really get a good job with the lower grits as any marks left from them will show in the final stage.


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## yardball (Sep 22, 2004)

Danno, What kind of wheels are those 5 hole? Those are sick!!!


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## fowtj (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: (yardball)*

Judging by the Porsche emblem in the center, i would say they came off an 82 Lincoln Continental














(j/k)


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## yardball (Sep 22, 2004)

*Re: (fowtj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fowtj* »_Judging by the Porsche emblem in the center, i would say they came off an 82 Lincoln Continental















(j/k)

Thanks for the smart ass remark, but I dont see a porsche emblem.


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## fowtj (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: (yardball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yardball* »_
Thanks for the smart ass remark, but I dont see a porsche emblem. 

Ok... ill try not to be a smart ass again, but this one will be hard. The emblem is in the center of the wheel and has a crest on it that says "PORSCHE" at the top of the crest


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## Cru_Jones (Oct 28, 2002)

*Re: (yardball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yardball* »_Danno, What kind of wheels are those 5 hole? Those are sick!!!

search "phonedial"


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## yardball (Sep 22, 2004)

*Re: (dublife63)*

thanks dublife


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## Motorwerks (Nov 6, 2002)

*Re: (yardball)*

Awsome I gotta get a post in here so I can keep up on how these turn out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2K V [ r ] 6 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: (Motorwerks)*

also currious to see outcome


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: (2K V [ r ] 6)*

Hi,
I lost my momentum and still haven't finished the first wheel. But I refuse to clean up the chaos in my garage _(area right by the door where I'm working)_. Therefore, I walk past the unfinished wheels, sander, and sandpaper every morning as I head out to the car.







Now that it's a little cooler, I should pick up the work again. Plus, I'm going to take a week off later this month. Those wheels will be my goal.
I'm looking to finish them up before the winter so they'll be ready for use next spring. Regardless of whether I finish them in four weeks or four months, I'll post photos.
Thanks for your interest...
Scott


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: (Stealth_TDI)*

Hi,
I got a little work done today... at least until the thuderstorms and blown out halogen lamp happened. I also forgot the 600-grit sandpaper. So I had to stop my work at 400-grit.







The wheels are looking better... sort of a "brushed" look.
Anyway, I was shopping for the buffing compound and wasn't sure exactly what to get. I was shopping at Pep Boys. The only paste-based compounds there, it seems, were by Turtle Wax. The buffing compound is brown. The polishing compound is white. Will this stuff do what you guys are recommending?
I plan on getting some 6-inch terry pads to use with my drill. Then I'll go to town after my sanding is complete. Sound like a plan?
Thanks,
Scott


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (Stealth_TDI)*

drills spin too slow, get all your stuff at http://www.caswellplating.com and read up on how the whole polishing thing works. its one of those things where there are a few different ways to the same finish just depends on how you like to go about it. you need to get the surface speed of the buff much faster than a drill will spin it. look into picking up a rotary buffer from harborfrieght.com i bought one and punished the thing for hours on end polishing my montes and it still works fine, central or chicago electric makes it, its orange.


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: (Banditt007)*

Banditt,
Thanks for the tips! I made a lot of progress today. I did the 600-grit. Then I went to Harbor Freight _(there's one nearby)_ and picked up a high-speed drill. I saw the grinder you mentioned. I just don't have the space mounting it. It rotates at 3400-rpm. My new $20 drill rotates at 3000-rpm. According to what I read at Caswell, the end speed of the buffing wheel is more important than the actual RPM. So, I'm happy with my purchase. Harbor Freight also carries buffing wheels and compounds. SWEET!







So I loaded up and decided to get started while awaiting the good stuff from Caswell.
I didn't get a photo of the wheel sanded down to 100-grit. But here's a shot of the one at 600-grit:








I was really surprised at how fast the shine came after buffing with brown buffing compound. Here's a shot after just a few minutes of buffing:








Here's what the wheel looks like after my first night:








I still need to get into the openings. I'm awaiting smaller buffing wheels and bullets to tackle that job _(Thanks for the link!)_. I hope to receive the bullet wheels and such in a day or two. After hitting the openings with the brown compound, I'll polish up the whole wheel with the white polish. Once I'm happy, I'll go after the rest of the wheels _(I have five)_.
One thing that I always wondered was why it was necessary to strip the wheels down to 100-grit. I think the funny pattern in my first post started because the wheels were already so smooth that even using fine sandpaper scuffed them. I think the stripped wheels are in such great condition that I just *had* to know if I really needed to sand. So I decided to try buffing a section without sanding:








This wheel has some corrosion from after I stripped the clearcoat _(I didn't dry them before storing them in the garage)_. The compound ripped right through the corrosion and scratches in VERY short order. Other than sanding the curb rash, I think I can buff these things to a shine without using sandpaper. Whaddaya think?
Thanks again... I couldn't have done this without you!
Scott
PS: Are these buffing wheels reusable? Can I just toss them in the washer to clean them up?


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (Stealth_TDI)*

buffing wheels you need to use one for one compound only, you can also take a course toothed hacksaw blade and 'rake' out the pad if it becomes too packed up w/ stuff, you just use them until they get too small. Heat is your friend. some people even preheat the parts before buffing, the wheel should get hot to the touch after a 15 minute buffing section.
the wheels will just wear down until you cannot use them any longer.
You cannot/should not wash the buffs one buff per color compound and try to eliminate all cross contamination. keep them sealed in their own zip lock bags ect.
To get a blangin' shine you will know b/c you will look like you spent a day in the coal mines when you are done, wear eye/breathing protection the buff/compound gets up in the air and isnt too good for ya. Not to mention aluminum is toxic, especially the dust when sanding (not too much of a prob wetsanding) however it can also be absoarbed through the skin. so wear gloves.
when i polished my montes it was alot of trial and error and i spent hundreds of hours on them (alot was stripping old paint) but in the end they came out amazing, and are one of a kind. However i will NEVER IN MY LIFE polish another set of wheels unless they look like pizza pans lol


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## Motorwerks (Nov 6, 2002)

*Re: (Stealth_TDI)*


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: (Motorwerks)*

WOW!
I did polish up one wheel without sanding it all the way down. It turns out that some scratches become blemishes, ripples if you will, in the finish. I've had to do some heavy sanding on sections of that wheel. As a result, I'm taking down the remaining wheels with 80-grit. Here's a photo of my progress:
Sanded to 80-grit...








All wheels in various stages...








Polishing those wheels openings is a REAL PITA! They almost looked better before I touched them. Some parts polish up and some parts just stay dull. Of course, the corners are REALLY tough to get into. I'm thinking more and more about painting those openings.
What's the best way to paint the openings? Finish the polishing THEN tape them off and paint them? It seems I'll buff the paint away if I wait until after the paint job to finish polishing. 
Thoughts?
Scott


_Modified by Stealth_TDI at 10:22 PM 10-20-2005_


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## VWtrend (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: (Stealth_TDI)*

very nice job so far, as for painting
them you should wait till you finish
polishing them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Motorwerks (Nov 6, 2002)

*Re: (german old school)*

GOD I wish these wheels came in a 15


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## Stealth_TDI (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: (Motorwerks)*

Hi,
I'm done for a while. I'm a little disappointed. But that's because I'm a bit of a perfectionist. In retrospect, I should have done a lot more sanding... sanding, sanding, and more sanding. But I still suspect I'd still have the minor imperfections such as discolored areas and tiny scratches that would ultimately drive me nuts!







If I didn't have these little imperfections upon finishing the project, I'd certainly have them the first time someone mounted tires or after a few washes.
Seeing that I still had tiny scratches that need to come out _(but I'm too tired of this to do it now)_, I opted to do the white rouge by hand. Of course, there are now tiny little scratches in a circular pattern _(from the terry cloth?)_. This was somewhat expected. Here's one of the wheels that did NOT turn out as great as I had hoped:








The "bad" area at 7-o'clock is just a section I didn't buff so well before the photo. That blemish wiped right off. But the photo doesn't really capture the tiny scratches too well. Anyway, since these wheels are forged and blingy and my other are cast and boring _(ie, "Stealth")_, I think I'm going to use these on the autocross course only... perhaps shows. Depending on when I get next year's autocross tires, I may bust out the tools again next spring _(with new-found energy?)_ and try getting some of the scratches out. Otherwise, I'll run them for a season to see if they get scratched up on the track. I may break down and polish them again next Fall.
I've read rants about how crazy it is for wheel refinishers to charge over $200/wheel to polish wheels. Well, until you've tried it yourself, you simply cannot understand why it costs so much. I know *I* certainly wouldn't polish someone's wheels without charging a mint. But, for that kind of money, I would do the job right instead of settling like I have done with my own wheels. I consider the Le Castellets to be an easy wheel to polish. I can imagine the tedious labor required to polish BBS's or something more detailed than the "pizza pan" pictured above.
BTW, I've noticed that water spots them up pretty easily... even if I dry them immediately. Any tips on keeping the water spots away? Wax? I hadn't planned on clearcoating these things... especially not until they're darn-near perfect.
Thanks for your continued guidance...
Scott


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (Stealth_TDI)*

first they scratch very easy as you can tell, when i was done w/ mine i only washed w/ a soapy water solution and an all natural sheeps skin car wash glove. then rinsed, then dried them off w/ compressed air. Anything you can do to minimize contact w/ them is ideal. I put a coat of neufinish on them w/ my my bare hands after making sure there wasnt any dirt on them at all (just thoroughly washed my hands) once it hazes up i took it off w/ a micro fiber towel.
The trick to scratchs is two-fold. First you must MAKE SURE that NOTHING gets contaiminated, its like an operating room when you polish wheels, any stray piece of dirt/sand, or comopunds getting mixed up will belmish the surface. Also when you sand you have to make sure that you sand the wheel in a cross-hatch pattern. and once done w/ one grit make sure the entire wheel is fully hit up w/ that. next wash the hell out of the wheel so no particles of aluminum/grit from the last job mess up the new one. when going through the grits every step has to be surgical w/ absolutly no chance of contaimination from the last step.
when you rake the buffing wheel out you also must make sure that the rake is only one rake per compound. when buffing make sure that there is no way any flying compound/aluminum bits gets on any other compound/buffing pads ect.
The polishing for me was VERY long took me the entire winter and into summer to do my montes (alot of this had to do w/ the stripping off of the old paint which needed TNT to be removed) but the buffing was frustrating b/c its very very hard to not have any scratchs in the polished piece. I have read that it is very hard, and impossible in some cases to get rid of all the scratchs. But the scratchs i am talking about are super super fine, the scratchs you have there look like you didnt sand out the scratchs from the last grit w/ the new grit. You can get out some pretty good scratchs w/ the brown compound.
You also need to remember that the white compound likes HEAT to work. so move up from a 6" to and 8" buff and make sure it is loose sewn cotton or the next softer one (most soft) which is like a very very soft to the touch cotton.
ABout 80% of your time should have been spent on the brown compound in a cutting motion (again w/ the cutting motion cross hatch) and then the white is all in the coloring motion and should bring the wheel up great.
I think i could have gotten out the last bit of marks that i saw in my wheel upclose if i used the even softer buff than the loose sewn cotton.
Using the white by hand if we are talking about the stuff that comes in like crayon sticks will not do much if anything. The wheels should be HOT when you are buffing, the more you press down on the buff, the more heat, and the more heat the better it works. at some points i had the buffs almost smoking, which is what you want. the wheel should be unconfortable to put your hand on when you are buffing it.
Yes it takes awhile to get the wheel up to temperature, and you have to really lay into the buff. but once up to temperature you will see how you can almost breeze through it.
By no means am i saying that my wheels came out perfect, but they came out dam good. especially for the first time, then again i spent about 10 fold the time you did on them, i worked on them for hours everyday for months and months and months.


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## Wilbur the pig (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: (Banditt007)*

Bump for good stuff, and tracking this is not working. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## racaro_kid (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (Motorwerks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Motorwerks* »_GOD I wish these wheels came in a 15









your wish is granted, they do come in 15"







very rare though
some good info in this thread, can't wait to start on my second set of wheels


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## airman401 (Sep 25, 2011)

I hereby grant this thread LIFE! Great thread that helped me out quite a bit. Thought I would bring it back from the dead as a favor to anyone who needs it.


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## roger2050 (Oct 27, 2010)

airman401 said:


> I hereby grant this thread LIFE! Great thread that helped me out quite a bit. Thought I would bring it back from the dead as a favor to anyone who needs it.


+10 Internetz to you, sir. :thumbup:

In the process of doing this. This thread is a life saver. :beer:


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