# North American Phaeton Owners' GTG in Dresden - May 2006



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*May 17-18 GTG in Dresden*

Let’s make this dream a reality! I'm working with my contact in Dresden to start to formalize the Phaeton owners and fans GTG in Germany. Just remember, air, train and car travel costs are your responsibility. I'm working on a group rate for the Dresden Hilton, but each person will be responsible for their room cost. 
As of today, 18 January 2006 we have agreed to meet in Dresden on Weds 17 May 2006 for an informal group dinner and meet and greet, tour the Transparent Factory Thurs 18 May 2005 and if, and this is a BIG if, I can pull it off, have a "track" day on Friday 19 May 2006 like the German Phaeton owner group did at their May 2005 GTG.
I am actively working with our contact in Dresden on an agenda; I do need to get a good idea of a head count. So far the following people have confirmed:
Phaetonchix and significant other
PanEuropean (from Canada and Switzerland)
PC Dave
chrisj428
pilgrim7777 and guest (from the UK)
Four Speed Fox and spouse
Theresias – (already in Germany)
I also have tentative commitments from:
Uberanalyst
Cwilson and guest?
Gobuster and guest?
n-n-n-n (from Australia)
dcowan and family?
W126C and spouse
Steve Covington
Culverwood (from the UK)
XB70 and guest (from the UK)
Iluvpcs and spouse
And then the maybe’s:
Paldi
copernicus0001
bigbugiv, spouse and 2 guests?
rosmsp
PLEASE IM ME IF YOU ARE PLANNING ON JOINING US THIS MAY.
Many of you have your email addresses hidden; I’ve sent all the tentatives and maybe’s IM's.
PLEASE IM ME IF YOU ARE PLANNING ON JOINING US THIS MAY.
I need to get a headcount off to Dresden ASAP, so they may plan accordingly. And I also need a headcount for the Dresden Hilton, as I am trying to negotiate a group rate.
I will be in Germany from May 12 to the 21st, so it is crucial I lock down all the details in advance.
Thanks!
~PC


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## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PhaetonChix)*

Hi!
Looks good, 95% sure for the two of us. let you know soon.

Thanks Steve Covington


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (Steve Covington)*

*Archival Note:*
Here is a reference to the original discussion of plans for the North American Phaeton Owner GTG planned for Dresden in the spring of 2005: Spring 2006 Dresden trip: What week works best for you?. Now that the date has been settled, the planning will continue in this thread (the one you are reading now).
If you are curious about what you can see and do in Dresden, you might want to have a look at these two posts:
A photo tour of the Transparent Factory in Dresden - needless to say, it is even more interesting when you visit in person.
Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005 This is a writeup, with photos, about the German Phaeton Owner's GTG held in Dresden during the summer of 2005.
Michael


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Michael,
Thank you for thumb tacking this thread. I've had some preliminary communication with Dresden, I'll continue to post updates as soon as I get them.
I'd like to have a more complete headcount by the end of March for all in Dresden events, hotel group rates and whatnot. 
Chris is working on a promotional piece to pass out at the February Chicago GTG to help generate buzz; right now I've got 12 committed attendees, my goal is 20 to 25. 
~PC


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PhaetonChix)*








I want to go!







I want to go! 
But, I can't!








Ya'll have a great time!!!


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## bigbugiv (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PhaetonChix)*

pc
just me and sabrina (2) 99.9%


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

I've now confirmed with my company's European sales folks that they want me to visit customers/prospects in Germany, France and the UK the week after this trip, so I'm raising my probabilty of attendance to 99%.
- Dave


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## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PhaetonChix)*

Hi! 
Count us in Steve & Tiffany (Daughter) Covington 100%
THANK-YOU Steve


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Thanks for all the IM's and posts. I'm make my flight arrangements the end of this coming week; it looks like I'll be flying into Frankfurt from Detroit on Friday May 12 (non stop yeah, NWA Frequent Flyer points do have value after all!) and taking the train to Dresden. 
If people want to try and meet up in Germany prior to the actual Phaeton GTG, please let me know.
Updated confirmed list:
Phaetonchix and significant other
PanEuropean (from Canada and Switzerland)
PC Dave
chrisj428
pilgrim7777 and guest (from the UK)
Four Speed Fox and spouse
Theresias (already in Germany)
Steve Covington and daughter Tiffany
bigbugiv and Sabrina
Gobuster, his wife and son
Uberanalyst
I'm still waiting to hear more details from my contact at the Transparent Factory, but have been in regular communications.
My goal is to be in Chicago for part of the Feb GTG and be able to answer questions in person. Just look for the lady with a cane.
~PC

Modified by PhaetonChix to include uberanalyst




_Modified by PhaetonChix at 10:35 AM 1-23-2006_


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

PC:
I guess you missed my earlier message. Please add me to your "confirmed" list.
Thanks,
- Dave


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Dave,
Thanks for the confirmation. That makes 18 confirmed so far.
See you in Dresden!
~PC


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 10:43 AM 1-23-2006_


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I've heard from my contact in Dresden! Lovely lady, extremely helpful, like the staff at PCC, only more gracious, if that is possible.
I'll have lots of specific details by this coming weekend. The only bit of sad news I got was no track event. The Transparent Factory will be hosting a tour and luncheon for us, helping us secure a group rate at the Dresden Hilton and arranging for a tour of Dresden, including the porcelain factories, the botanical garden and possibly a few museums. If we so desire, they can assist us in securing tickets to local cultural events also.

I'll be contacting those of you that have confirmed via IM and email shortly. I need to complete a spreadsheet for Dresden with contact and vehicle information, hotel needs and any general questions you all may have.
Chris and I hope to have brochures for those of you that will be at the Feb 11-12 Chicago GTG.
More details coming VERY VERY soon.
~PC


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## iluvpcs (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

I need to start MARKING down meetings in my calendar better. I already booked and flying to Sydney on the 9th, Now I'm bummed I don't get to make the GTG in Chicago. Maybe one in Sydney at the same time??? Anyone from down under?
Ted


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## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Hi! 
Do you think we will see the last of the LWB PHAETONS being built or the SWB only?
THANKS! Steve Covington


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Steve Covington)*

LWB Phaetons continue to be available in the rest of the world, however, the SWB accounts for most of the production. It's pretty hard to tell the difference between the two during the build process.
Michael


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## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

HI!
I did not know that. THANKS!
Steve


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I received a very detailed program guide and price list from Dresden today. I'll be forwarding the .pdf to interested folks mid next week, after I recover from all the fun I'm going to have at the Chicago GTG this weeknd!
~PC


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 1:52 PM 2-13-2006_


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## flanker27 (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi everyone.
I also would like to take part in this GTG.
I think that I will be the only one from Eastern Europe. 
In Last 8 months I saw only one Phaeton in Poland :-(((
Greetings from Zielona Gora
Tomasz



_Modified by flanker27 at 8:05 AM 2-11-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (flanker27)*

There is some additional discussion of the planning of this GTG - including some pictures, and encouragement for forum members who want to bring their kids, at this link: Spring 2006 Dresden trip: What week works best for you?. Note that because the date has now been firmed up, that thread is now 'locked', meaning, it is not possible to post to it any more. However, it is still a useful source of information if you are considering joining us for the Dresden GTG.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Count me in. I've made arrangements to go to Dresden. Never been over the Atlantic, so I'm gonna need some serious tips. Working on a Passport this week.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David:
Great - awesome - bring your kids, they will really enjoy it.
Michael


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## iluvpcs (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Tips for Europe:
Get your passport done, I believe (having only visited 8 Countries in Europe) Most if not all Western Europe/EU countries require no VISA for US citizens, but it’s always good to check the country(ies) web sites you wish to visit to see if there are any visa or other requirements/shots needed before visiting. If you plan on visiting a country while there that requires a VISA, get it STARTED as EARLY as possible, outside of rushing a 2-5 day visa and paying a few hundred, it’s much cheaper to go the 1 to 4 week route via mail and paying a lower fee.
You'll be amazed on how much life is similar in all parts of the world. Most everywhere there are pubs, fast food restaurants, 50 floor high-rise buildings and apartments/condo, internet access at starbucks or hotel etc…
I’ve been to a modest amount of countries from the US (About 20 total in the world) and after a while it all appears the same. Most all places have up to 4/5 star hotels and down to 1 star, even with the language barriers most of the time you can always find someone to speak English or a menu in English. It’s always fun to see a new country and meet the locals and take in the customs, enjoy the local wine and cuisine.
Everyone in the world takes VISA / Mastercard, most AMEX, but not Discover.
AMEX traveler checks at travelex airport conversion or ATM with drawls’ at bigger banks are the best ways to convert to local cash.
One Item you SHOULD bring, at least one or two power converters, there are many out there for $10 to $20. Buy one that does all of them in one unit for size savings. I personally use one by ‘Kensington’ and it works great for my laptop, shaver, cell phone, etc…
--Ted
PS if you don’t have a GSM (Or maybe called GPRS/EDGE) cell phone, it probably won’t work.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (iluvpcs)*

Thanks Ted for those tips.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*16 Feb 2006 UPDATE*

Just an FYI. You are responsible for all travel arrangements to and from Dresden. It may be easier to fly to Frankfort and travel to Dresden by rail. I will be meeting with my travel agent this coming weekend to investigate renting something fun to drive on the Ring as I will be in Germany starting May 12 and not returning to the US until May 21. I know a few other people (FSF) had expressed an interest in that sort of thing. 
I have reviewed the .pdf that Dresden sent last week, there is a typo regarding days and dates. I've asked my contact at the Transparent Factory to make the changes on her end and resend a "good" copy to share with all interested parties. The Dresden staff is recommending one hotel, though many of us seem to be staying at the Dresden Hilton for "free" using our Hilton Honors points. I need to verify transportation to the Transparent Factory from the Hilton will be included in our tour.
If you have not already done so, please email me at the address listed my profile to confirm for the trip. Include a phone number where you can be reached evenings (I work for a GM supplier days) as well how many people there will be in your party and if any of your party are children. The staff in Dresden has offered some more family friendly side trips if we have need. I'll need a headcount of how many people will be attending no later than 03/31/06 for the staff in Dresden.
Thank you,
~PC




_Modified by PhaetonChix at 7:01 PM 2-16-2006_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: 16 Feb 2006 UPDATE (PhaetonChix)*

Having just arrived in San Fran after a 6 hour nonstop in a little Airbus, I'm starting to warm to the idea. How long a flight is it from NYC or Philly to Dresden or some nearby airport?


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## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: 16 Feb 2006 UPDATE (Paldi)*

This may have been covered elsewhere but....a quick route would be a Lufthansa/United redeye from JFK to Frankfurt, and then a short morning flight to Dresden. Not too long a trip - leave JFK at 5 PM, arrive Dresden at 8:15 AM next day (round-trip cost right now $1923.26 USD). Taxi from airport to downtown Dresden is about 30 minutes. Hotel arrangements should be made for early arrival, unless you want to do some sightseeing right away.
A train was also suggested for the Frankfurt to Dresden trip, and that may be cheaper.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Dresden hotels & in Germany travel*

Please hold off on hotel reservation. The staff in Dresden and I have "tagged" two hotels for the GTG. Some people have already booked rooms at the Hilton, but I doubt the whole group will find rooms there as it is peak travel season. We are getting the VW Factory tour rate and VW will be picking us up at the hotel for the tour and luncheon. 
Rail is recommended method of travel from Frankfort to Dresden. Some of us will be flying out of Detroit, some from Chicago, others from SLC & NYC....therefore it is simpler to leave travel to Germany up to the individual. Personally, I'm finally using up the tons of frequent flyer points I have.
I know folks are getting impatient for information, I'll be sending out copies of the Dresden Transparent Factory GTG .pdf to all interested parties the week of Feb 20. I've asked the staff in Dresden to make a few changes and to provide some additional info based on your requests.
Be patient! I'm doing this in my "spare" time. I work for another manufacturer these days and can only work this project from home. I need to be extra careful to avoid conflict of interest issues. 
Thanks!
~PC




_Modified by PhaetonChix at 9:46 AM 2-20-2006_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Dresden hotels & in Germany travel (PhaetonChix)*

Michael, what are the physical addresses for the Dresden Hilton and the Transparent Factory? I am trying to locate these on GoogleEarth. com and I can't get any lodging to show up on the map. Plus I would like to get a feel for where these two sites are in my head before venturing over there. I get a grip on perspectives that way before actually arriving. 
Thanks,


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## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

The Transparent Factory 
Automobilmanufaktur Dresden GmbH 
Lennéstrasse 1 
01069 Dresden 
Hilton Dresden 
An der Frauenkirche 5 
01067 Dresden 





_Modified by culverwood at 4:48 PM 2-20-2006_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (culverwood)*

Thank you very much.


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## XB70 (Feb 11, 2005)

Hi - I send you a PM - almost 99% that we will be coming - if you could advise of the details in the pdf that would be great. Thanks for sorting this out.
Kind regards
James


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Hurry up and wait, Phaeton style*

I'm still waiting on the updated .PDF from Dresden; but hope to have it back by the weekend. Everyone that has confirmed with me via email or IM will be contacted; I just do not want to publish our agenda in an open forum.
Thank you all for your ongoing patience.
~PC


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 9:32 AM 2-23-2006_


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## XB70 (Feb 11, 2005)

Many thanks for all your efforts.
As an aside, does anyone know whether you can rent a Phaeton near Dresden? Would be shocking of me not to at least visit the autobahn in one! *grin*


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Car Rental*

XB70,
I've request that the Dresden staff include car rental info in the. PDF. That was one of the changes/addition the forums question generated.
~PC


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

Count me in.
If there are any other members going from the UK maybe we could drive over in convoy


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*

Steve,
I've added you to my list. It looks three owners/enthusiast are coming from the UK, I'll be sure to send you all a separate note (along with any other UK/EU owners) regarding the GTG; the Factory tour you all will get will be slightly different; as you will still be able tp purchase and order Phaetons after 2006. I like the idea of the British owners driving over in a convoy. Are you bringing your Phaeton or the Smart Roadster?








I'm STILL waiting to get the updated .PDF from Dresden, I was hoping to have it by today, but I PROMISE I'll send copies out to all interested parties ASAP. 
~PC


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

Its more than a little tempting to in the go Cobra as we would pass very near to the Ring but it wouldnt be right to turn up in anything less than the Phaeton


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I'm renting an R32 to play with on the Ring prior to heading to Dresden. This may not seem like a big deal, but I had my left ankle reconstructed in November and have been stuck driving an automatic the past few yrs (not by choice).
See you in Dresden.
~PC


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I've asked Chris B to call Dresden on my behalf as it is not possible for me to do so (I'm at a GM suppliers 8-6 daily). I've sent a couple emails in the last two weeks asking for an updated agenda, hotel info and car rental info, etc; but have not heard back yet.
I apologize for the delay as I know we are all excited and looking forward to making plans for the trip.
~PC


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

I dialed Dresden today. S.D. will be calling me back on Monday evening to go over the final details before presentation.
It seems many have the same idea as us, most of which are scheduled to occur before ours. Needless to say, she is inundated right now, understands completely how high a priority this trip is for us and doesn't want us to feel as though we're being neglected.
She has committed to having information to me by Monday evening. 
Hang tight, True Believers! Just a little longer!


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

I went to the post office today to get my passport renewed. It will cost $67 to renew and I was told it will take 6 weeks to get it. I had them take my mugshot while I was there for $15. Just letting everyone know what I encountered for comparison reasons.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Attention COSTCO shoppers, passport pictures at Costco are only...$5.00!


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

I'm going to get my pictures remade. I looked like a loose convict , hadn't shaved, wind was horrible today and my hair was all over the place. I can't accept that $15 mugshot.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_I'm going to get my pictures remade. I looked like a loose convict , hadn't shaved, wind was horrible today and my hair was all over the place. I can't accept that $15 mugshot.

That's perfect. If you look too good they will find a problem. I had mine done professionally. Thicker, fuller hair, potoshop the eyes and of course the *neck thing*. Man, I look just like my high school grad picture. I will never make it through customs.








Regards,
Brent


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## CHARLY GOLF (Jul 24, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PhaetonChix)*

We are planning on joining you in DRESDEN this may.
2 persons : Fabienne and Christian GRASSET from Normandy - France.
We would like to go to DRESDEN with our own PHAETON.
Can you give us the programme, please ?
Thank you very much.


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Any progress on the trip, and when is the latest that individuals, me, need to book hotels etc.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Chris B spoke with our contact in Dresden yesterday (March 6). I am expecting the new .pdf by end of business Weds and I'll send it out to all interested parties with a detailed cover letter via email no later than the weekend. Unfortunately I'm working 60+ hour weeks right now, so actually finding the time to contact all of you is becoming challenging. Once everyone has the .pdf, they will be responsible for their reservations and associated fees. 
Please understand I work for a GM supplier and can not handle funds or reservations for the group; it would be a direct conflict of interest. My role was to facilitate the trip and work with Dresden in designing our program.
Regards,
PC


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

PC:
FYI I will be back in Switzerland WEF March 29, in case that helps you any.
Michael


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I had a nice suprise in my personal email when I returned from lunch....the .pdf is here! I'll be contacting everyone in the next 48 hours.
Thank you all for your patience.
PC


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Note: If you did not get an email with a .pdf of the Dresden Program from me dated March 7 it is because I do not have an email address for you.
I'm missing:
Steve Covington
Tomasz Majdan (flanker27)
Simon Elliott (Hudson1)
Nicholas Gillis (n-n-n-n)
Please contact me ASAP via IM or email if you are still interested in joining the group this May.
Thank you and see you in Dresden!
PC


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Program error*

I just finished re-reading the Program file and noticed while * the dates are correct, the days for our GTG are wrong*. Please note, the Dresden event runs *Weds May 17 thru Friday May 19, 2006.* 
~PC


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## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

Great progam! Can we do the Dresden days only Wed-Fri? Is this the type of question I should be contacting Sandra with. I will do that now and post her reply.
Thanks for all your effort PhaetonChix.
William


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Hi Thankyou PhaetonChix for the info really great...I am not into all the sight seeing is anybody going to be around to talk Phaetons and comparing notes, if one does not go sight seeing. I shall be driving there as I think a couple of others will and will be happy to go though whats on the vehicle etc..


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## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*

Copy of correspondence with Dresden about joining for part of tour:
Dear Ms Domse

I am hoping to join the VW Vortex Group GTG that comes to Dresden on the 17th May.
Is it possible to join only for the Dresden part of the trip and not include the Wolfsburg and Berlin parts?
Thank you for your help.

Regards
William

Thank you very much for your e-mail. Sandra is not in for the next day and she asked me to look after her mails.
We are looking forward to welcome you with the VW Vortex Group on May the 18th. But we have to apologise for not be able to assist you in your request.
We organize in coordination with Eve and Chris the group trip but we are not able to assist with individual bookings and travel arrangements. May you can contact Eve directly in that matter.

Thank you very much for your understanding and kind regards from 
Anja Richter
Dresden



_Modified by culverwood at 4:33 PM 3-8-2006_


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (culverwood)*

Hi William
I am of the same mind I am really only interested in the Dresden GTG and really only the factory visit.The rest I am not to bothered about.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*DO NOT CONTACT SANDRA DOMSE DIRECTLY*

Sandra has requested that due to the size of our group that people continue to contact me for clarification and that I act as her point of contact for the group. Please send any queries you may have to my personal email address.
I need to research what can be done for those of you only interested in a factory tour. The rates reflected in the program are based on 20 people participating in the entire program, not just freestanding portions. Furthermore, I know the European owners get a slightly different tour as they are still able to order Phaetons after the 2006 MY.
Thank you,
PC


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 9:32 AM 3-8-2006_


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: DO NOT CONTACT SANDRA DOMSE DIRECTLY (PhaetonChix)*

If I understand the contents of the PDF correctly, it proposes a couple of days in Dresden, but then includes EITHER Wolfsburg or Berlin afterwards.
Does this mean we need 18 people all going to Wolfsburg, 18 people all going to Berlin, or something else (split? the 18 people only having to go to Dresden?) to get the group rate.
I could go either way (I've been to Wolfsburg before), but just need some clarification on this issue.
Also, are we responsible for getting our own rental cars for travel between Dresden and either Wolfsburg or Berlin? It doesn't seem like we'd need cars if we can take inter-city trains, since the PDF otherwise proposes to bus us to some of the various events and restaurants.
Thanks for your hard work in pulling this together!
- Dave


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: DO NOT CONTACT SANDRA DOMSE DIRECTLY (uberanalyst)*

Okay!
PC and I have the relevant information from Sandra. We're going to consolidate everything and tomorrow morning post exactly what our options are.
Then, everyone will contact one of us with their choices and we will proceed from there. 
We appreciate everyone's patience in this -- it's been a yeoman's effort for PC (would that make it an yeo_wo_man's effort, then???) to get everything to this point. We have one piece of fine-tuning to complete and everything will be clear.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: DO NOT CONTACT SANDRA DOMSE DIRECTLY (uberanalyst)*


_Quote, originally posted by *uberanalyst* »_
Also, are we responsible for getting our own rental cars for travel between Dresden and either Wolfsburg or Berlin? It doesn't seem like we'd need cars if we can take inter-city trains, since the PDF otherwise proposes to bus us to some of the various events and restaurants.
Thanks for your hard work in pulling this together!
- Dave


The rental car info was included at the request of several forum members. 
Chris and I will be getting clarification on the Wolfsburg/Berlin portion of the program as it was not part of the original proposal. I'm returning to the US on Saturday the 20th, so this is an issue for me.
PC (yeoperson?)


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: DO NOT CONTACT SANDRA DOMSE DIRECTLY (PhaetonChix)*

When I read the file, I don't know what to think of things. For example, how much in US dollars is 20,00 E ??


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: DO NOT CONTACT SANDRA DOMSE DIRECTLY (dcowan699)*

It is also not clear exactly which dates to schedule flights.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Dollars to Euros*

David,
From http://www.fxcm.com., $1.00 US is .83056 Euros as of today, March 8, 2006.
PC


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*New Cruise Director*

As of March 9, Chris Bellios will be taking over as your main contact for the May 2006 Dresden trip. Please see his Vortex profile for his email address.
~PC


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: New Cruise Director (PhaetonChix)*

Is the tour of the factory free of charge??


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: New Cruise Director (dcowan699)*

I have a few questions not directly related to the main portion of the Dresden trip. First let me state my plans in a concise manner.
Brent and I are traveling together on this starting off by leaving the USA on Saturday, May 13th. We arrive on Sunday in Dresden. We want to stay Sunday night in Dresden in a cheap hotel. Monday, we plan to drive to a little town that Brent wants to visit for a short time and then we want to end up in Stutggart Monday night. We will stay the night there. On Tuesday, we want to tour the Mercedes Benz plant. On Tuesday night we will stay at the same hotel we stayed in on Monday night. On Wednesday morning, we plan to drive back to Dresden and spend the night in Dresden most likely the remaining nights (Wed, Thurs,Fri, and Saturday nights). We want to tour the plant with everyone on Thursday, eat meals with everyone that are planned according to the itinerary but on Friday at noon we will probably go off and do our own thing. That may be touring more of Dresden or it may involve renting another car and driving to Berlin or who knows what.
The reason I mentioned the details is so that I can explain my questions to everyone. I don't expect answers necessarily because many of us may have the same questions. My questions are:
*How easy/difficult is it going to be to find a low priced hotel "on the fly" as we travel? * We are going at this on an "ad lib" fashion. Is traveling along the highways , autobahn, like traveling American highways where you see something like a Holiday Inn Express sign and pull over at a whim or do we have to venture off and search a town for an hour looking for a place to stay? Are guest houses a practical alternative? 
We would prefer something that would be equivalent to a $70 a night Hampton or Holiday Inn type hotel. 
Do we need an international driver's license?
Will we have trouble communicating with people since we don't know a lick about the German language?
Has anyone been to the Mercedes plant? If so, can you just show up and get admitted to a tour?
The flight tickets are already near $900 round trip, so we cheap dentists are trying to keep the budget down on the hotel bills. The car rental for the week will probably be near $700 so we are looking for any breaks we can get.
Any info will be greatly appreciated. Should we just contact a travel agent? I'd rather not, but it might be our best solution.



_Modified by dcowan699 at 9:50 PM 3-8-2006_


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## PC Dave (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: New Cruise Director (dcowan699)*

David, here are some thoughts based on my 4 years living in Central Europe:
1. International Driver's License: I got one, but I let it expire after the first year. I used my Nevada license everywhere and didn't have a problem. Things may have changed, though, and it can't hurt to get one - go to your local AAA, they can issue you one pretty cheaply (I seem to remember $25 or so). More important is the insurance green card, but you'll get that from the auto rental agency.
2. I used to pick up a couple of English language guidebooks, usually Fodors and maybe the "Let's Go" guides published by Harvard U; Borders or B&N will have lots of choices. They would list recommended places to stay in each price range in each town with phone numbers, I would call those in advance and stay there - I was never disappointed. Most towns will also have tourist centers on the main roads into town; they can place you with several local pensiones that night. Finally, the easiest thing to do might be to use http://www.expedia.com. Others use Travelocity or Orbitz, I've made well over 100 reservations with Expedia (including a few in Europe) with no problems in the last couple of years. I just picked a night at random (5/19) and they listed 8 hotels in Dresden with rooms starting at $61, there will be more in Stuttgart and Berlin. 
3. Don't worry about the language. I drove my car and rode my motorcycle with nothing but a guidebook, map, and ATM card on unplanned road trips many weekends in Germany, as well as the other countries in central Europe, and language wasn't a problem. Lots of people (and virtually all restaurant and hotel staff) speak excellent English (everyone will in Berlin, lots in Stuttgart and Dresden), and even when their English isn't much better than your German, you'll be amazed what smiles, hand gestures, and pointing at words can communicate.
4. MB factory tour - check with your dealer, he probably arranges for several factory deliveries each year, which include a factory tour. He can set you up with the right people. Worst case, email Curt Rich, a salesman at Star Motors in Houston who publishes his own newsletter at http://www.curtrich.com - he does lots of Euro-deliveries and can probably help you.
5. Rent a cell phone at the airport. It shouldn't be that expensive, and it will make it a lot easier to get around, make plans, etc.
6. Don't ever use the money-changing booths ("Cambio"), they make too much on the spread (and don't EVER change money with anyone on the street). Take your ATM card, most European ATM's will accept it, and draw out money as you need it. There may be a small fee, but as long as you don't draw out $40 worth several times a day, it'll still be much cheaper than the spread at the booths.


_Modified by PC Dave at 4:05 AM 3-9-2006_

_Modified by PC Dave at 4:08 AM 3-9-2006_


_Modified by PC Dave at 4:09 AM 3-9-2006_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: New Cruise Director (PC Dave)*

Wow Dave!! Great help for sure. Brent and I and the rest of us will certainly benefit from your post. I forgot, are you going too?


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: New Cruise Director (dcowan699)*

Even on non-Phaeton topics, this forum is the best


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: New Cruise Director (dcowan699)*

Hi David:
PC Dave did a great job of answering your questions, I'll only add my thoughts to validate what he has already said.
*International Driver License: *- Forget about it. I spend half my time in foreign countries, and haven't had one for years. The last time I was asked for one was about 3 years ago in the Congo, by a policeman who was looking for a bribe. If you are from North America, you don't need an IDP in Western Europe. If you were from China, and your driver's licence was printed in Chinese, then you would need an IDP. The primary purpose of an IDP is to provide a _translation _of what is written in your underlying (home country) driver licence, nothing more than that.
*Mercedes Plant Tours:* Germany is a nation of auto enthusiasts, and all the big manufacturers offer visitor centers of one kind or another. But, not every plant has a visitor center. Just do some internet research to see who offers what, where. From my own experience, I can tell you that the VW Wolfsburg facility (Autostadt) and BMW Munich facility are well worth visiting. I think the BMW visitor center might be undergoing renovations now, though.
*Air Ticket Prices:* I make around 10 round trips a year to Europe. My average round trip ticket price (all taxes in) is about $1400 USD. If I am lucky and happen to get a really cheap ticket during the off season, it can be as low as $1,000 US. If I show up at the airport and buy a round trip ticket the day of the flight, it's about $2,000 USD. So, if your ticket is costing you less than $1,000 USD, you have a very good deal, be happy with it.
*Language:* You won't have any trouble with language at all in the larger cities. If you get picked up by a tornado and dropped in the middle of some small farm town, population 200, it's possible that no-one over the age of 50 will speak English. Just look around for a teenager, or better still, an 11 year old - they will be quite fluent in English, as it is taught in school as a second language beginning at about Grade 5. The kids love to speak English, it is considered 'cool'. In the hotels, the VW facilities, at the airport, everyone you have contact with will speak English. No worries. If all else fails, just look around until you spot another American, and ask him or her. It is quite easy to identify American visitors in Germany.
*How easy/difficult is it going to be to find a low priced hotel "on the fly" as we travel?* At the time of year you we are going (mid-May), it will be a piece of cake, unless there happens to be some large congress or sports event in the village you stop in. If that's the case, just go down the road 20 miles. For a decent, 'Hampton Suites' quality of hotel in Germany, budget about USD $120 a night. That is a bit more than what it costs in America for the same thing - such is life, because the Euro is very strong right now. 5 years ago, it would have cost you USD $80 a night, even though the price in Euros has not changed. 
The most significant difference between hotels in America and hotels in the German speaking countries of Europe is this: In America, a 1 star hotel is considered a dive, you probably wouldn't want to touch the toilet seat, and you would expect to find squashed insects on the wall. In German speaking Europe, a 1 star hotel will be just as spotlessly clean as the most expensive 5 star, it just won't be as modern and luxurious. The bathroom will be at the end of the hall, for example. But, the room will be immaculately clean. When I ride around on my moto, I stay at 2 and 3 star hotels. It's really pointless to pay the money for a 4 or 5 star and just use the place to sleep overnight in. 4 and 5 star hotels are like resorts.
Be aware also that breakfast is included in just about every hotel price in Europe. In Germany, the breakfasts are quite substantial, though 'different' than American breakfasts - there are fewer sweets.
*Car Rental:* If anyone wants to book a rental car, do so over the internet, via Travelocity or similar, before you go. This will easily cut your price in half. The 'rack rates' if you show up at the airport counters without a reservation are very, very high. The 'weekly rates' if booked from North America in advance are very cheap. By example, the rate for a one week rental booked in advance from North America via internet is probably only 2.5 times the daily cost of a walk-up rental in Europe.
Be aware that "full" insurance coverage can be quite expensive. I normally accept that if I have an accident, the first $1,000 is going to come out of my own pocket. This makes a fair amount of sense for us (here in this forum), we can afford to 'self-insure' for that $1,000 deductible. If you want zero-deductible coverage, it will probably cost you $35 a day. What most Europeans buy - $1,000 deductible coverage - costs about $15 to $20 per day. Unlike North America, there is no 'basic coverage' included in the rental price. The rental price is for the use of the vehicle only. You either supply your own insurance cover (if you live in Europe, your personal policy probably extends to rentals), or, you buy from the rental company. Your North American insurance and any 'Gold Card' or 'Platinum Card' insurance waivers you might have are _useless _in Europe.
Michael
I forgot to add this:
*ATM's and Money-Changing: * There is no need to 'change money' anymore in Europe, because everyone is on the same currency now - the Euro. Just take any bank ATM card that you happen to have that says PLUS, CIRRUS, or MAESTRO on it, and stuff it into any ATM you find in Europe (they all offer English as an operating language - just press the 'Union Jack' flag). The ATM will then spit money at you just like every other ATM in the world does. As a backup, bring along a MasterCard or Visa that you know works for ATM cash advances in your home country - it will also work the same way in ATMs in Europe. The ATM's don't charge transaction fees - the fee will be determined by your home bank in North America, and the best exchange rates on the planet are at ATM's, because it is the daily interbank rate plus about 1% that your home bank will tack on for their own profit.
If you don't often travel internationally, call your bank *and *credit card company, and let them know that you will be going to Germany, so that they can set a 'pre-authorization flag' on your account. Also, test your Visa or MasterCard by making a $10 cash advance on it at an ATM at home before you go away. Chances are, you probably never got the PIN number you need to use a credit card (as opposed to a bank card) at an ATM.
It will make life simpler for you if you go to your local bank well in advance and tell them that you want to buy about $200 in Euro bank notes from them before you go. That way, you have money in your pocket before you arrive.
As a rough rule of thumb, use 1:1 for mentally converting Euro prices into USD. By this I mean something that will cost you $10 in America will likely also cost you €10 in Europe. Yes, I know that €1 actually equals $1.20, but such is life. Very few things are cheaper, the vast majority are the same price (using 1:1), and some items - fuel and magazines amongst them - are much more expensive.


_Modified by PanEuropean at 2:04 AM 3-9-2006_


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## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

Mercedes Plant Tours: They do offer tours and it is a great tour of a "normal car factory" (as opposed to Dresden which is not a "normal car factory"). 
We did the tour when picking up our last car and really enjoyed it. It's probably worth checking with your local MB dealer in case they have some more information for you like opening times.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (culverwood)*

Thanks everyone for your input. This will help tremendously.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Informative Emails have been sent!*

Dresden Participants,
Emails have been sent to those of you from whom we have received requests. The following Forum members' email addresses are either non-existent or incorrect:
bigbugiv
SteveCovington
xb70
flanker27
hudson1
n-n-n-n 
Please email me at DresdenTrip at aol dot com if you wish to receive information and/or have any questions!
Thanks a ton & really looking forward to this trip!!!


_Modified by chrisj428 at 8:23 AM 3-9-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

One final travel-related tip:
People in Germany generally pay quite a bit more attention to how they dress than folks in North America. For example, if you are going to a $60 a plate dinner, everyone will wear jacket and tie (sports jackets are fine, but for sure a jacket and tie). You don't see adults wearing jeans and sneakers in the German speaking countries of Europe unless they are panhandling or, perhaps, working on their sailboat on a Saturday morning.
What I am trying to say (I'm not expressing it well) is that Germans pay more attention to 'dressing sharp' _for social activities_ than North Americans do. Go have a look at the photos of the opening night meet and greet at the German Phaeton Owner's get-together in Dresden last May, at this link: Phaeton Owner GTG - Dresden, Germany May 20, 21, 2005. Compare this to how we all dress for our NAR get-togethers. What you will notice is that everyone wears jeans and golf shirts for casual activities in the daytime, but people will dress up for dinner and social gatherings. This is quite different from contemporary North American practice.
If you are staying in a 4 or 5 star hotel in Europe, you will look quite out of place going into the restaurant or lounge unless you are dressed nicely. Not dressed fancy, but just dressed nicely.
Michael


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## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

Michael; You remind me of a US Senator. "Never say in one sentence what you can say in two pages". Why not just say what you mean--DON'T DRESS LIKE A BUM!


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## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

Michael,
I am unwilling to comply with this "dressing up" requirement. It is my G-d-given right to wear Chinese-sewn sweatpants, Nikes, and a T-shirt loudly proclaiming my favorite beer, everywhere I go.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Four Speed Fox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Four Speed Fox* »_I am unwilling to comply with this "dressing up" requirement.

WHAT? Yeah, right.
#1 From what I saw at the GTG, I could make a car payment by hocking one pair of your loafers.
#2 I'll make sure you have a "special" table reserved...


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

I know of a few Phaeton owners that are going to need an _extreme makeover_ before they leave the US.







Damn I hate to go shopping.
Regards,
Brent
Can't I just get by with scrubs and a white lab coat?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Four Speed Fox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Four Speed Fox* »_I am unwilling to comply with this "dressing up" requirement. It is my G-d-given right to wear Chinese-sewn sweatpants, Nikes, and a T-shirt loudly proclaiming my favorite beer, everywhere I go. 

But of course. Think of the money you'll save - you won't have to buy one of those little 'flag' lapel pins to identify where you are visiting from.








Michael


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Dresden visit*

Copy of e-mail
Hi Chris
Unfortunately the program is too organised for us, since our only interest is really the factory tour and meeting all you guys. We had hoped that the GTG, since we would only have the three days, would be more of a focused motoring theme rather than the historic tours . We can and do wear ties and wear sensible shoes.
We will opt out on this occasion and do the trip some other time, I hope you guys have a good time.






















Terence


_Modified by pilgrim7777 at 3:25 AM 3-11-2006_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Dresden visit (pilgrim7777)*

Terence (and all the rest) -- 
I sent out a clarification this morning to those of you who (a) have supplied me with a valid email address and (b) have not RSVP'd yet indicating your selections.
You may opt in or out of any or all of the events. 
You may have your children with you at the factory tour and choose to leave them behind for the dinner.
At the bottom of the original email is a checklist. Reply back to me by indicating your selections by inserting a quantity on the appropriate line. 
While I'd love to see everyone at everything, I know that's not possible -- so please RSVP by Tuesday and come to what you can!


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## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

I have a question about the rental car.
I plan to arrive in Frankfurt on Tuesday. I'd like to have a Phaeton for the entire trip. To whom should I speak to arrange this? And has anyone seen the proposed rental contract and whether any, er, toll roads in the Rheinland province are specifically excluded? I have a couple days of toll road driving planned.


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: (Four Speed Fox)*

Are there any other UK owners driving out for the Dresden meet, I am going out for just the Wed night GTG and the factory tour on the Thursday and then heading back to the Ring for a play, does anybody fancy meeting up and driving over in convoy?


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*

Are the hotels at the Dresden airport reasonable or would it be best to look in town? I have been looking at that expedia.com site that PCDave recommended and it looks like some of the lowest rates are around $110 a night up to $150 a night. That is the price range I'm willing to split with Brent. Be nice to stay for less than $70 a night by the time we split the costs. The Hilton seems very pricey and I could care less about staying in a fancy hotel. When my eyes are shut during sleep I don't notice the chandeliers in the foyers!


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*

Yes after second thoughts we shall be going, so current intentions are are very early chunnel around 6:00 for arrival in Dresden for dinner with the rest of the guys. Mail me with details and we will try and co-ordinate.


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: (pilgrim7777)*

Terence
It looks like we are going to head off on the Tuesday, we were looking forward to a few laps of the Nurbergring http://www.nuerburgring.de/home/index.html?L=1 on the way home but it would appear to be shut to the public on Friday so are only hope is to get there for the early evening session on Tuesday.
We will be staying near the Ring on Tuesday night which will still leave us with about a 350 mile run into Dresden, so maybe we can meet up Wed lunch time for that final leg?


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*

I'm planning on driving the 'Ring on Tuesday; we've rented an R32. Not as glamorous as a Phaeton or as hot as a 997, but still enough car to thrash around. Perhaps we'll see you at the track? We're staying at a small private castle near the track Monday night and plan on making a day of it Tuesday. 
We're going to be in Mulhouse at the Schlumpf automobile collection and visiting Le Mans on the Sunday before the GTG. I highly encourage everyone to make the side trip; it's not too far by road or rail from Dresden.
http://www.culturespaces.com/w....html
PC


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

I hate to put a dampner on your plans but if you check on the Rings website you will see that its only open to the public at certain slightly oddball hours, on the Tuesday in question its only open from 17.30 to 19.45







hope that hasnt spoilt your day
steve


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Steve, 
Thanks for the heads up. Our plans are set. Track time is not an issues...we like odd ball times!
FSF should take note however....
PC


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

One of the german road test magazines has thrown an r32 round in 8 mins 37 secs.
should be quick enough to keep you interested


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*

Steve will be in touch when I know a few more details,I would think we can hookup on route.


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## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

I think I am going to stick around a couple of extra days and take advantage of the long 'Ring schedules on Sunday and Monday after the tour. Of course, we can't drive for time on the public days because of the in/out traffic flow, but I am not quite so egotistical as to try the 'Ring for time in an unfamiliar car on the first day.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Four Speed Fox)*

*UPDATE*
I still have yet to hear from many of you who have expressed interest in taking this trip to Dresden. Keep in mind I will be forwarding a complete list to Sandra on Tuesday morning, so I need your information back to me *ASAP*.
I will also be talking with Sandra in the morning to answer the rental car questions. As soon as I have information, I will post on the Forum.
For those who did not receive my email, I am going to post the reservation sheet below. Cut and paste into a blank email, indicate number attending each event on the lines and email to [email protected] as soon as possible!!!
Let's not forget our hosts are noted for their precision and punctuality. I do not want to appear as though we cannot get our act together!








****************************************************
The way this is going to work is as follows:

Sandra and I will be responsible for your entertainment, sustenance and shelter from Wednesday 17 May through either Friday 19 May or Saturday 20 May (see below for details). 

You are responsible for arranging your own personal well-being outside of those dates. I suggest you contact your travel agent to make whatever other arrangements you require depending on your arrival and departure dates.

At the end of this email is a "checklist". Please mark your selections by indicating the total number participating on each line as appropriate and respond back to me no later than close of business on Tuesday 14 May. I know this is not a lot of time, but by now, I would expect most of you have made your flight reservations and carved out the time from your schedules.

Once everyone's selections are back to me, I will forward them to Sandra. She will calculate the exact prices based on levels of participation. At that point, each of you will receive an "invoice" for your selections. Payment may be made via credit card by filling in the necessary information on the invoice and faxing it back to Sandra. 
THE CHECKLIST
Indicate the number of participants you will have at each event on the line to the left. I recommend you copy this portion of the email into a new one and send it back to me directly.

I am available by phone at 847-971-1031, on Vortex or via email at this address for any questions regarding this trip. I look forward to seeing you there!!!

*********************************************

Wednesday 17 May 2006

_____ I will be staying at the Hilton Hotel Dresden and will make my own arrangements. (The Hotel is currently “full” and will only accommodate those with status in the Hilton Honors Program.)

_____ I require hotel reservations made for me at the Steigenberger Hotel De Saxe. The rate is currently €189.00 for a double room, €169.00 for a single room.

_____ I wish to join the group for dinner at 7:00 pm at the Restaurant Pulverturm, in the amount of €21.00 per person. The menu will be Delights of the Saxon Table with local breads, sausages and cheeses; Suckling Pig with sauerkraut and a king-sized dumpling in a marjoram sauce; and Dresden Eierschecke, a Saxon cake specialty.


Thursday 18 May 2006

_____ I will be part of the tour at Die Gläserne Makufaktur at 9:30 am.

_____ I will partake of the sightseeing tour in Dresden at the cost of €45.00 per person.

_____ I wish to join the group for dinner at 8:00 pm at the Eckberg Castle, in the amount of €57.00 per person. The menu will be Seared Fois Gras with Glazed Apple Wedges in an Herb Salad; Creamy Soup of Snow Pea Pods; Argentinian Fillet of Beet with Vegetables and Potato Gratin; and a Tonka Bean Cream with White Chocolate and Raspberries for dessert.


Friday 19 May 2006

_____ I wish to board the Paddle Steamer for the Guided Tour of Pillnitz, the former summer residence of the Saxon Royal Court, at the cost of €48.00 per person.

_____ I wish to join the group for lunch at 12:30 pm at the Schlossrestaurant Pillnitz at the cost of €35.00 per person. The menu will be Pillnitzer White Wine Soup; Glazed Baby Chicken on green & white asparagus with Potato Fritters and Stuffed Crêpes with caramelized Orange Slices and Saffron-Orange Ice Cream.

_____ I wish to continue on to Wolfsburg that evening and require reservations at the Ritz-Carlton Wolfsburg. The rate is currently €219.00 per night.

Saturday 20 May 2006

_____ I wish to participate in the Off-Road Touareg Course and Guided Tour of Autostadt at the cost of €51.00 per person.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Chris,
Could you put a list together of who you have not heard from. I've sent mine in twice and still got the e-mail.








Regards,
Brent


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (W126C)*

Remember Brent, postage is now 39 cents.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Remember Brent, postage is now 39 cents.

That would explain why the *Repo Man* tried to take my Phaeton.







Thanks for the reminder David.
Regards,
Brent


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: RSVP status (chrisj428)*

As of right now, I have heard back from the following (in no particular order):
Jack & Michelle Baruth
Brent von Behrens
David Cowan
Chris Bellios
Robert Lyon
Dave Eastman
Dave Passmore
Steve Covington
Eve Pickman
Fabiene et Christian Grasset
Terence Bourne
Steve Pooley
Michael Moore

Parties who expressed interest & haven't heard back from as of yet:
Jim Falsetti
Chris Werfel
Robert Lyon
Rick Gillman
Ted Ooyevaar
David Zier
John Dickman
William Marques
James (Jamesvx...)
Tomasz Majdan
Additionally, I keep getting mail returned for:
Rick Gillman -- please advise with a correct email address to [email protected]


_Modified by chrisj428 at 6:10 PM 3-14-2006_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Updated Rental Car Information*

Plans are coming together as we speak!
There were some questions about rental car procurement. I have some preliminary information and will be going over specifics with individuals a little later on.
The rental rates are calculated for five days on a one-way rental, picking up in Dresden and dropping off in Berlin or Wolfsburg. There is a Europcar station in Wolfsburg, but if you're staying at the Ritz in Wolfsburg, the staff will handle the return for you.
The rates include all taxes and unlimited km. This rate also includes Vollkasko insurance (similar in design to our Collision Damage Waiver), with a 950 Euro deductible. 
Any questions about insurance coverage via your credit card in Europe should be addressed to the credit card company directly. 
As I mentioned, we're starting with the "blue-chip" level components and drill down to the minutiae as we progress.


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (chrisj428)*

All those that are considering hiring cars in Germany need to remember that the speeds are a lot higher than your used to, resulting in some pretty horiffic accidents.
Some friends of mine on holiday recently came accross an accident that had just happened the following rather graphic photo shows the sort of high speed carnage that can happen on the autobahns.
Survivors of the crash can be clearly seen in the wreckage , my friends immeadiatly went to there aid and even administered mouth to mouth recucitation but not one survived!!!!
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_Modified by 8secondquarters at 1:07 AM 3-19-2006_

_Modified by 8secondquarters at 1:09 AM 3-19-2006_


_Modified by 8secondquarters at 1:10 AM 3-19-2006_


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (8secondquarters)*

Thank you for your concern, but just because posted speed limits in North America are 55-70 mph, it does not mean we usually drive that slow! Not that I'd know anything about speeding. Or driving at 95-110 mph in a VW. Or a MB. Or an Audi. Or a Porsche. Or an Elise. Or a Corvette. Or even in a Subaru.








And we find plenty of way to have awful accidents at lower speeds.
PC


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## Swiss_Phaeton (Jun 11, 2005)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (PhaetonChix)*

Do not underestimate the dangers of a German Autobahn. Fast cars (faster than 150 MPH) mix up with slow trucks. You can be in the fast lane travelling at 120 MPH and think you are quick, and then annother car might be just a car length behind and flash his lights. 
The Nuerburgring is something entirely different. This track has 160 turns and is the most complicated circut on the planet. I takes a long time to learn all those challenges. If you drive there, do it slowly. Many good drivers have wrecked their car there. As it is technically speaking not a public road, the insurance company will not pay anything. The best thing to really experience the Ring is to take the Ringtaxi. Professional drivers who the track real well take you around in a BMW M5 or a Viper. It is not cheap, but worth the money. You should book that in advance.
As of today, I am still able to book a room at the Dresden Hilton at EUR 133/night. have you negociated a better rate ?


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (Swiss_Phaeton)*

Swiss Phaeton,
Several of us are using Hilton Honors points to stay for "free" at the Dresden Hilton, but I do believe the staff at the Transparent Factory had negotiated a special rate. 
I'm not concerned about Autobahn driving, my travel partner lived in Aachen and Copenhagen for a number of years. He'll be doing most of the driving as my left leg is still not up to handling a clutch for any lenght of time.
We've already booked our Ringtaxi, but still may attempt a lap or two ourselves. We both have some autocross experience and I've navigated on a couple of rally teams. 
I am really looking forward to seeing everyone in Dresden.
PC


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (PhaetonChix)*

Dresden trip participants:
I have sent an email out requesting information back on mailing address & phone/fax numbers.
So far, I have received information back from:
Jack & Michelle Baruth
Brent von Behrens
David Cowan
Chris Bellios
Robert Lyon
Dave Eastman
Eve Pickman
Fabienne et Christian Grasset
Terence Bourne
Steve Pooley
Michael Moore
Daniel Mueller
*I still require responses back from:*
Dave Passmore
Steve Covington
Please email me at [email protected] as soon as possible!


_Modified by chrisj428 at 9:12 AM 3-22-2006_


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (chrisj428)*

Dresden Trip Update:
I have no hotel information for the following people:
Brent von Behrens
Dave Eastman
Steve Covington
Fabienne et Christian Grasset
*Please respond to [email protected] by end of day on Thursday 23 March as I need to have the information back to Sandra by Friday morning, first thing.* If you're making your own arrangements, then please tell me that -- I just want to make sure everyone's covered.
I have no contact information (address, phone & fax) for:
Dave Passmore
Steve Covington
Again, please respond by tomorrow night to [email protected] so I may have this information to Sandra first thing on Friday morning.
Sandra's team is putting together the complete group as well as the individual portions and will send out individualised information via fax or email (for those who indicated they would rather not receive a fax). You will, however, need to fax the information back to her once you've completed the form.
Thanks for everyone's cooperation. This is going to be a fantastic trip and I can wait to see everyone!


_Modified by chrisj428 at 10:09 AM 3-22-2006_


----------



## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (chrisj428)*

Chris:
I'm not sure why you didn't receive my email response to you yesterday, so today I re-sent the requested contact info via 2 different email systems.
Please again email me if you didn't get it.
Thanks,
- Dave


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (uberanalyst)*

*THANK YOU TEAM!!!*
All the "holes" are filled in my spreadsheet & the inforamation's off! 
(Dave, I got this one, but not the others -- nevermind, though, I have what I need.)
Sandra will be distributing information shortly and I'll keep you posted via email and the Forum as things progress.
_Only *54* days to go!!!_


----------



## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

For the record, I am buying at least one twenty-five lap ticket of the Ring. I expect I will have the turn order memorized before I arrive; I'll just have to deal with the elevation changes.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Update to Trip*

Hello all!

As I watch snow fall gently outside the window of my work, I find myself pining for warm weather and springtime. Fortunately, given there are only 53 days remaining until our arrival, I am able to soldier on in the face of winter's last breath.

I had a lovely conversation with Sandra this morning, who is in receipt of the compiled information. She and her accomplished team are working to finalise both the core experience as well as all the individual permutations requested. Barring any unforseen circumstances, customised programs will be sent out to each participant by the end of this coming week. Where fax numbers were not provided, you will be contacted directly by email. Please supply the requested information and fax the form back to Sandra by the deadline requested.

As a reminder, for those of you who are branching out and staying somewhere else besides the Hilton Dresden or the Steigenberger, you will be provided with times when the shuttle will be collecting the group at both hotels. You will be responsible for meeting us at the pickup points if you wish to take the shuttle or getting yourself to the appropriate locations through your own transportation methods. I will not be able to organise shuttle service to each and every spot.

This promises to be a very fun and enjoyable function! I, for one, can't wait to meet everyone new and see old friends yet again. 

I will send out informational updates as they arise.

Take care, stay well and see you soon!

All the best,


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Update to Trip (chrisj428)*

Off topic, but interesting for those going to Germany.








Regards,
Brent
Where There's a World Cup, There's Bud
Crazy is a perfect segue to this next item. Well, maybe astounding is a better word. On second thought, how about stupid? Insensitive? Asinine? OK, they're all good words and in this case they all apply. I'm talking about the decision by FIFA (the organization that runs the sport of soccer, worldwide) to grant the beer concession for the 2006 World Cup in Germany - that's all 64 games in 12 cities - to the Anheuser Busch Company of St. Louis, exclusively. You heard right, the 2.5 to 3 million fans who will attend World Cup games this year in Germany will have just one beer choice, and it won't be Augustiner, Spaten, Berliner Kindl, Beck's, or any of the other fine examples of the beverage Germany is famous for the way France is famous for wine and Italy is famous for pasta. It's BudweiserŠor possibly Bud Lite, or Michelob, or O'Doul's.
How did this insult to German culture happen? The answer is easy: money. When the bidding started, the lads from St. Louis simply stacked it higher. (Must have been a lot higher to keep out all the German beers; after all, Bud might not come off so well in the impromptu, in-stadium taste comparisons that would surely take place - were fans given that opportunity.)

FIFA officials have made it clear this is not the German World Cup, but the FIFA World Cup in Germany, and "official" sponsorships is one way of getting back their $800 million investment. The beer decision seems to make it clear that the event is not meant to reflect the culture of the home country.

As to the quality of the beer, one Irish publication asked, "Does beechwood-aged translate as straight from the faucet?"
We must assume that since AB has no brewing facilities in Europe, the Bud and Bud Lite served will be transported from St. Louis to Germany. Talk about "coals to Newcastle." Pitiful.


----------



## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (PhaetonChix)*

Hi! 
We have never had a problem on the autobahn. The German drivers are great! The autobahn is a car lovers dream. See you in Dresden!








Steve Covington


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (Steve Covington)*

Hello all!
Just a small update regarding what to expect next:
Sandra will be contacting you via email by Weds 5 April. There will be a contact sheet and a credit card form. Both need to be filled out completely and returned to her.
You may either fax the forms back or, if the forms are scanned and the signatures are visible, you may email them back to her.
I'll keep you updated as things proceed.


----------



## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Updated Rental Car Information (chrisj428)*

I've noticed there have been floods in Dresden, perhaps we should check on boat rentals - just in case


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

April 6, 2006:
Has anyone received their invoice yet?
PC


----------



## CHARLY GOLF (Jul 24, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

no
I have received nothing .
even with the advanced hours.
(same hour in GERMANYand FRANCE)


----------



## CHARLY GOLF (Jul 24, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

NB
In DRESDEN, there is the ELBE's swelling.
perhaps, they have inundation ?


----------



## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: (CHARLY GOLF)*

nothing here either


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*

I just spoke with Sandra. She just found out that Marketing -- without confirming with her first -- decided to bring in a group of 150 the same morning we were due to tour. Sandra didn't want us to get mixed up with that crowd, so they're flopping the agenda on that day. Dresden tour in the morning and factory tour in the afternoon.
This should work out better for just about everyone -- those who are not doing the Dresden tour will be able to sleep in and those who are driving in to town just for the tour won't have to rush to get there in time!
Ann and she are working to redo all the programs...she was literally just about to click "send" when the news came through. They should be emailed out tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*INVOICES ARE OUT!!!*

Invoices are in your email inboxes as we speak. They are individualised based on the selections each of you made. Please peruse, email me with any questions and complete the form back to Sandra by the deadline.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: INVOICES ARE OUT!!! (chrisj428)*

I glanced over the form. It is in euros. How do we handle this?


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

David,
You don't. You send Sandra your credit card info, your credit card company converts your bill to dollars.
PC


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

I got mine and just went through it. The Thursday night dinner price has gone up a bit. 154.00 Eur/189.00 USD from about approx. 80.00 USD.







Ok, call me a cheap dentist, but could someone else explain this to my wife/boss. Anyway, I got my passport today, so George Bush is going to let me leave the country.








Regards,
Brent


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_I got mine and just went through it. The Thursday night dinner price has gone up a bit. 154.00 Eur/*189.00 USD* from about approx. 80.00 USD.







Ok, call me a cheap dentist, but could someone else explain this to my wife/boss. Anyway, I got my passport today, so George Bush is going to let me leave the country.








Regards,
Brent

We may have to sleep in the rental car a couple of nights Brent!!!!
That is atrocious. I need dinner insurance


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Heard back from Sandra -- here is what I know:
The price of the meal is still 55 Euros.
The price of the transportation & program afterwards (castle tour) is what went up -- by 10 Euros per person. This figure was ommitted in the original information PC and I received from the Factory.
Sorry for the confusion. 
Also, my understanding is we are still having a Luncheon at the Transparent Factory between the Dresden City Tour in the morning and the Factory Tour that afternoon.


_Modified by chrisj428 at 1:05 PM 4-7-2006_


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_Heard back from Sandra -- here is what I know:
The price of the meal is still 55 Euros.
The price of the transportation & program afterwards (castle tour) is what went up -- by 10 Euros per person. *This figure was ommitted in the original information I received through PC.*
Sorry for the confusion. 
Also, my understanding is we are still having a Luncheon at the Transparent Factory between the Dresden City Tour in the morning and the Factory Tour that afternoon.

Please note, the info (.pdf) I forwarded to Chris was provided by Sandra and the staff in Dresden. 
PC


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Sorry to chime in here late, but it is looking better that I may be in Europe at this time. I may not know for sure for a few weeks, but is there a way I could sneak in if that is the case?


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: (dzier)*

David,
You'll need to contact Chris. He's taken over the administration of the Dresden trip. The Dresden GTG is touring the facility the afternoon of Thursday, May 18. I do know there is a special event that morning at the Transparent factory.
If all you are interested in is just the factory tour, you can contact the plant directly at: http://www.glaesernemanufaktur.de/gmd.html
The facility is open to the public for general tours. 

PC


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_Please note, the info (.pdf) I forwarded to Chris was provided by Sandra and the staff in Dresden. PC 

Sorry for raising such a stink. I went back and this time carefully read the (.pdf) page -13- Eckberg castle arrangements. There are clearly two separate figures that should be added together. So the only change is the VAT tax, which is now included. Ok, so it makes sense to me now.
Thanks again Chris for keeping all this together.
Regards,
Brent


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (W126C)*

I found it, too. My fault -- sorry for the confusion.
And, yes, I have asked for the menus to be corrected -- somehow the wrong ones ended up in the packets which were emailed out.


----------



## ottohahn (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PhaetonChix)*

Hi folks,
as I am a new Phaeton owner as well as a German, let me know if your require any assistance during your trip to Dresden.
I attended their guided tour in Dresden a couple of months before - it's stunning and a real "have to" for Phaeton owners.

Regards,
Oliver


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (ottohahn)*

Well, 25 days until I leave for Dresden. Time to get ready.
Any last minute thoughts from the world travelers? I mean besides the fact I need _two pair of clean underwear._








Regards,
Brent


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_I mean besides the fact I need _two pair of clean underwear._

Only if you're riding shotgun with Jay.


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Chris,
Any updates from Dresden? Like the corrected menus? 
23 days until I leave for Germany. I'm packing swim fins and a life vest if the flooding continues...
PC


----------



## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Might be a bit late, any idea how "strangers/locals" like me are beeing handled?


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: (Theresias)*

Sebastian,
Please send chrisj428 an Instant Message. I'm not sure what plans, if any have been made for "strangers/locals" that would like to join the group for the factory tour or dinner.
PC


----------



## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_Please send chrisj428 an Instant Message. I'm not sure what plans, if any have been made for "strangers/locals" that would like to join the group for the factory tour or dinner.

Thanks, chrisj428 took care of me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Theresias)*

Sebastian:
I have purchased an abo for the whole event (the dinners, etc.) but I will not be able to attend due to work problems - I will be in Africa - so, you can have my abo free, as a gift.
I'll call you later today - I am in CH now.
Michael


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Michael,
You'll be missed. Be safe.
PC


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Hi PC:
I am sorry I will not be able to make it, but I have to go to Sudan - things are changing there because of the conflict that is developing in Chad - all the folks who were displaced from Darfur into Chad are probably going to get displaced again...
Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I hate to hear you're not going to make it to Dresden Michael. Won't seem appropriate without you.


----------



## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I have purchased an abo for the whole event (the dinners, etc.) but I will not be able to attend due to work problems - I will be in Africa - so, you can have my abo free, as a gift.

Thanks a lot!
Looking forward to see you on friday! Hope you've got some time to talk then.


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_I hate to hear you're not going to make it to Dresden Michael. Won't seem appropriate without you.









Ditto.







Be safe my friend.
Regards,
Brent


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (W126C)*

Yeah, I'm sorry I'll be missing it too, but I could not work my schedule such that I could make it. Oh well, next time...
Michael


----------



## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

I would like to know exactly what the hell is happening in Africa/somewhere else that is so important that you cannot attend. Now, I'm as interested in human rights as the next guy, but what's more important - saving lives or prancing around the Dresden factory in a Superfine 180s shirt? I think we all know the answer to this.


----------



## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: (Four Speed Fox)*

Sorry guys looks like I am going to have to dip out of Dresden to!








I have had to make this hard decision after much heart ache.
I badly damaged my boat at the weekend and its its going to take a good few days to repair plus a large pile of shekels.
We are entered into an important race on the 3rd of June leaving time and money tight. I feel I owe it to my crew to get the boat repaired rather than swanning off to Dresden to enjoy myself.(my better half is stamping her feet saying I can't do both)






















You all have a great time I expect to see lots of pics when you return


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*

Hi Steve:
Good luck with the boat repair - it looks serious, as if the hull has split into two pieces. You're lucky it didn't sink.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*Hello Everyone:
Just a reminder that if you have made a commitment to attend the Dresden GTG, you need to get your payment for the meals, trips, etc. to the travel department in Dresden by May 1, which is Monday.
If some change in your schedule has taken place and you cannot attend, you still need to make the payment if you have previously committed to attend. This is because the prices that were quoted were based on the number of participants that made a commitment to attend, and if fewer participants attend, the price will rise sharply for the rest, due to fixed costs (transportation, bus rental) being amortized over a smaller group of people.
I know very well that it is no fun to have to pay for something when you cannot attend - I cannot attend the Dresden GTG because of recent last-minute changes to my work schedule, however, I paid the travel department the €220.- for my invoice today, because I had made a commitment to attend this GTG. If you drop out and don't pay, you are not stiffing a faceless corporation, you will be stiffing your fellow forum members, who will have to cover your costs.
Nuff' said.
Michael*


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Parts shopping in Germany*

Michael,
Do you have a German source for Phaeton parts? I think several Phaeton forum members are going to be souvenir shopping for their Phaetons.
PC


----------



## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Parts shopping in Germany (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_Do you have a German source for Phaeton parts? I think several Phaeton forum members are going to be souvenir shopping for their Phaetons.

Suppose best for that would be either the factory itself (if they actually do so) or one of the dealerships in Dresden. Question might be what do you understand as "souvenirs"?


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Parts shopping in Germany (Theresias)*

Tow bars & control modules for same.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Parts shopping in Germany (chrisj428)*

I can't believe it is only 2 more weeks or so before loading up on planes and headed to Germany!! How many of us are taking the plant tour Chris???


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Parts shopping in Germany (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_Do you have a German source for Phaeton parts? I think several Phaeton forum members are going to be souvenir shopping for their Phaetons.

The factory itself does not sell parts, but, they can help you identify the exact part number that you need, and then place the order with a nearby VW dealer in Dresden for you. You then pick the part up at the local dealer in the normal manner.
Note that there is no refund possible for the 16% value added tax on automobile parts if you export the part from Germany by hand-carrying it out of the country. But, if the part is shipped to you (post, courier, etc.) then it is sold without the 16% tax on it. This means that in practice, it is most practical to have the part shipped if it is a large part - the tax savings will normally pay for the shipping. If it is a small part, then you just have to pay the tax like a German customer would, and stuff it in your suitcase.
Michael


----------



## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

*Re: Parts shopping in Germany (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Note that there is no refund possible for the 16% value added tax on automobile parts if you export the part from Germany by hand-carrying it out of the country. But, if the part is shipped to you (post, courier, etc.) then it is sold without the 16% tax on it. This means that in practice, it is most practical to have the part shipped if it is a large part - the tax savings will normally pay for the shipping. If it is a small part, then you just have to pay the tax like a German customer would, and stuff it in your suitcase.

Additional note, from January 1st of 2007 the VAT/tax increases from 16% to 19%.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Parts shopping in Germany (Theresias)*

Just a gentle reminder to all the deadline for sending back to Sandra your confirmation with credit card number is tomorrow. 
Monday 1 May.
And they're about 7 hours ahead of us.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Parts shopping in Germany (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_Just a gentle reminder to all the deadline for sending back to Sandra your confirmation with credit card number is tomorrow. 
Monday 1 May.
And they're about 7 hours ahead of us.

Exactly what numbers would I dial in order to fax my payment info? Do I only need to scan the last two pages which mention the prices and have the places to enter my credit card info???? I screwed up and forgot about this. I need to get this to them first thing in the morning. Who can I call (and what #'s do I dial) to make sure it went through on the fax machine?
*Sincerely, 
The Moron of the Week*


----------



## Theresias (Feb 11, 2004)

1st of May is a holliday here, so I doubt they will proceed anything until 2nd!


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (Theresias)*

Oh! That explains why no one is answering the phone








The number I faxed it there with is 011-49-351-420-4422. I hope this is right.


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Monday May 1 is MAY DAY! Let's not forget Dresden in in the former East Germany. And once the World Cup starts, getting people on the phone at hotels, etc is going to be tricky.
12 more days...not like I'm counting.
PC


----------



## PC Dave (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David, that's the correct number. Sandra's email has an auto-responder saying she's out of the office until Thursday, so I doubt she'll see it until then.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to join you guys in Dresden. I told Chris when I first committed that I'd have to resolve a couple of scheduling conflicts. One of them couldn't be resolved, and while La Jolla is a better place to be stuck than Africa like Michael, I'd still prefer to be in Dresden. This kind of sucks - this looked to be my one vacation this year. Anyway, have a great time, and I'll have to fly in to one of the domestic GTG's to catch up with everybody I met in Michigan last year. This is a good group.
BTW, Michael, no worries, I paid my bill. If anybody wants to jump in at the last minute, maybe they want to take my slots at the dinners, since they're paid for. Have fun, everybody, and I look forward to seeing the pictures!


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PC Dave)*

Hey Dave! It's funny how we don't hear from you for weeks and then, BAM! , there you are. Thanks for confirming that number for me. I may be just too late with that fax....we'll see. We'll miss seeing you there and , yes, try to make a GTG in the USA when you can. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## deepak.tripathi (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PhaetonChix)*

Michael,
I am new on this forum and therefore not in a position to say anything authoritatively on the matter I am going to raise, in case it has already been attempted.
My observation is that, despite so many Phaeton owners saying that they love their car, there is a significant proportion who feel they are not entirely happy with the service they get from their dealerships. At least that is the impression I get on the basis of two weeks of membership of this forum. 
I believe some of this is because of very high customer expectations (and rightly so) and some due to a lack of proactivity on the part of Phaeton dealers to inform owners in plain English what is happening to their cars. I suspect there are many instances when feedback like you have given on break noise, lights coming on or going off etc would be enough to reduce stress levels. 
My suggestion is this: If you feel so inclined, it might be worth requesting the Phaeton bosses in Dresden to prepare their retailers to be always conscious that they are dealing with a group of customers who need assurance with expert authority to put their minds to rest about the behaviour of their cars. The bosses have the database of Phaeton owners and could produce a periodical digital newsletter which answers some of the general issues. 
Whether we like it or not, the simple truth is that Phaeton owners (like the owners of other luxury brands) are a class of their own. They are rich (VW needs them to sell Phaetons), mature, articulate, often busy and demanding. No successful manufacturer should ignore the nature of this profile if it aims to build customer loyalty. 
I will be in Tenerife when you guys are in Dresden, but I wish you all a nice time there.


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*No PC Dave in Dresden????*

Dave,
I'm sorry that you won't be able to attend the GTG in Dresden; I was looking forward to seeing you again. The Dresden GTG is the last Phaeton event I'm planning on attending. Maybe I'll see you if I make it out to the Sundance Film Festival next year.
Take care,
PC


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: No PC Dave in Dresden???? (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_ The Dresden GTG is the last Phaeton event I'm planning on attending.

Was it something I said or didn't say.







How about if I put one of those fancy tray tables in the back of my Phaeton, so you can still work 24/7 and I'll pick you up the the next GTG?








Rgards,
Brent


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: No PC Dave in Dresden???? (W126C)*

Brent, I sent that form through fax early this morning. It appears that they won't get it anyway until tomorrow. Hopefully, the 2nd of May won't be too late. I'll try to call them tomorrow and make sure they have our forms looked over. I'm sure they will take our money


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: No PC Dave in Dresden???? (dcowan699)*

They got the form and have processed it. Whew! That was a close one.


----------



## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: No PC Dave in Dresden???? (dcowan699)*

Hi!
Who is the GTG contact at the Dresden Hilton reguarding the factory tour? We will be arriving in Germany on the 14th. 
Steve Covington


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Dresden contact info*

Steve,
Check your Dresden Program for GTG details. There is no group contact at the Hilton, though Chris and I are both staying there. No official GTG activities start until the group dinner the night of May 17. Thursday May 18 is the day of the factory tour, we'll start the day with the city tour at 9:30 AM and head over to the Transparent Factory at 1 PM. 
I'm sure the hotel staff will be able to assist you with any local events or sites of note not covered in the group tour of Dresden. I'd also suggest a visit to Berlin by train, the Brandenburg Gate is worth the trip. Taxi tours are fairly easy to arrange. And my SO found this excellent website with good day trip ideas:
http://www.cometogermany.com/
There is even an oral hygiene museum in Dresden for the dentists in our group!
MY SO and I arrive in Germany on May 13 (9 more days!) but we won't be arriving in Dresden until late afternoon on May 17. We're touring Switzerland and France by car (R32) prior to driving the 'Ring and hitting the spas in Baden-Baden.
See you in Dresden,
PC



_Modified by PhaetonChix at 10:29 AM 5-4-2006_


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Dresden contact info (PhaetonChix)*

Dear Gentle Reader,
Just a reminder that Sandra and I are "reponsible" for your well-being and entertainment from the evening of Wednesday 17 May through Friday 19 May (or Saturday 20 May if you're continuing on to Wolfsburg). 
You are on your own for any arrangements or events outside of those dates.
I'm so very much looking forward to seeing everyone in Dresden. I go from ORD to AMS on Saturday night (thank goodness I can sleep on planes) and take take a detour to CPH for a day before joining the group on Wednesday. (If it's Tuesday, this must be Denmark...)
Cheers & safe travels to you all!
Best regards,
Julie the Cruise Director


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Dresden contact info (PhaetonChix)*

Thanks P/C for those tidbits. Hey Brent! did you see that museum suggestion??? Tax write-off maybe???


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Dresden contact info (dcowan699)*

Chris. What is the approximate number of us going to the factory tour??? I lost count. 
*BTW, I checked on the weather channel website about temps. 
It seems they are getting lows near 50 and highs around 70. *


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Dresden contact info (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Tax write-off maybe???

I'm _telling_! *MOM!!!*

_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Chris. What is the approximate number of us going to the factory tour??? I lost count. 

Last count, we will be 23 at the Factory Tour!


----------



## PC Dave (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: No PC Dave in Dresden???? (PhaetonChix)*

Eve, I'm sorry I'll be missing you as well - this has been a crazy year. This isn't the first personal gig I've had to cancel, and I'm pretty sure it won't be the last. I hope you'll attend future GTG's around the midwest - it's the people, not the cars, anyway. I'd love to see you at Sundance, come on out, the snow is fine! Sorry to miss the rest of you as well, I have a feeling this is a one-time sort of thing that I'll very much regret missing.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: No PC Dave in Dresden???? (PC Dave)*

Just hung up with Sandra -- everything is in order! She was not planning on sending out invoices as you already have the information as confirmed. If you want something else, I'm sure she could generate it, but it would just duplicate what you already have.
I don't think we realize just how special, personal and individual this Factory Experience is going to be. Heck, I don't think I even have a full grasp of it. Sandra said she would be sending out an email early next week exposing some of the details, but I asked her not to ruin the "surprise". I can tell you this is no "Hoover Dam Tour" where you wear the dam hats and take as many dam photos as you want while someone leads you around with a megaphone.








I'm getting really excited!!!!!


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: No PC Dave in Dresden???? (chrisj428)*

That's right . We're doing the _European Vacation_ not the _Las Vegas Vacation_


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Dresden contact info (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
Best regards,
Julie the Cruise Director

See you there,
Dr. Adam Bricker


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Dresden contact info (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_BTW, I checked on the weather channel website about temps. It seems they are getting lows near 50 and highs around 70. 

Hi David:
I am very sure you will have nice, pleasant weather during the middle of May. This spring has been cooler than normal in Europe, but today I rode my moto from Zurich down to Geneva and back (about 500 miles) and it was very warm all day - the high was close to 80, and it was never less than 60.
Whatever weather you could reasonably expect in, for example, New York City or Chicago is about what you will get in Dresden during the same week in May. You might get a little rain, but it is very unlikely that the daytime high temperature would be less than 60. Closer to 70 is more probable.
Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Dresden contact info (PanEuropean)*

If I buy some very small gifts for the family and parents while in Germany, would it be best to mail them back to the US rather than bringing them back in my luggage??


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Shopping in Germany*

David,
Many shops will mail items back to the US for you. And I believe you can apply to have the GST (tax) refunded also. I'm hoping so, as my (shopping) absence will cause the Michigan economy to go shrink and the Germany economy to grow. I'm probably going to mail some items home and carry the rest back. I just found out I'm going to be an aunt again, so someone is getting German baby clothes (mini lederhosen!).
See in you Dresden.
PC


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Shopping in Germany (PhaetonChix)*

Thanks P/C for that info. Have fun!! 
And congrats on the new one. I always have to ask if it's a boy or a girl so I can know whether I'm gonna be an aunt or an uncle


----------



## patrickv10 (May 9, 2006)

*Too Late for Dresden tour?*

Hi
I am a new owner living in the UK and would be interested in joining the group in Dresden for the dinner and tour. I would make my own travel arrangements.
Is it still possible to join? If so who do I contact?
Patrick


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Too Late for Dresden tour? (patrickv10)*

Patrick,
IM sent. Chris Bellios is your contact, please write him at the email address I IM'd you.
See you in Dresden?
PC


----------



## needapasswordreset (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Too Late for Dresden tour? (PhaetonChix)*

You should all have received emails from Sandra with the nitty-gritty. It looks like we're going to have a really fun time!
And, I'm really excited about David Wicks joining us -- we're in for a real treat!
Just some minor picayune details:
*Steve Covington
*Fabienne et Christian Grasset
*Steve Pooley
All y'all need to get a hold of Sandra as soon as possible! Please call her and/or check your emails!
See you in a few days!


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Too Late for Dresden tour? (needapasswordreset)*

Chris,
Love the new handle, very very subtle!
PC


----------



## needapasswordreset (May 11, 2006)

*Re: Too Late for Dresden tour? (PhaetonChix)*

"Notice how I ride sidesaddle -- it proves I'm a lady of quality." -- Witch Hazel


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Too Late for Dresden tour? (needapasswordreset)*

You're a lady?


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Too Late for Dresden tour? (Paldi)*

No but I play one on TV.


_Modified by chrisj428 at 12:15 PM 5-13-2006_


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Too Late for Dresden tour? (chrisj428)*

Three hours until the cab gets here...


----------



## patrickv10 (May 9, 2006)

Unfortunately, despite a number of people having to pull out, it seems the administration in Dresden was unable to cope with a late addition. So, have a great time and maybe next year in Dresden. 
Patrick


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (patrickv10)*

Brent and I arrived on Sunday and were able to tour portions of the factory and got several photos. It is just astounding to look at that tower of Phaetons and Bentleys. We were able to peak into the assembly area and we saw cars suspending from robotic devices. We watched video sources and got a grip on some of the unique fabrication techniques. 
The weather has been cloudy at times with a few showers. We walked 3 miles to the factory one way , ate along the way, and just enjoyed scenery. 
Today we are in Stuttgart and are about to head out to the Mercedes factory. 
The autobahn was a blast. We got a snapshot of us by a speed camera once. Brent was driving. I haven't driven yet.
If it weren't for the nav system in our C class Benz, we'd be lost by now.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

The Mercedes tour was fabulous. We saw portions of the fabrication of an S class. I saw a white S65 with panoramic roof going through the line!!
The factory is no where near as clean looking as the Phaeton factory.
They were very friendly people there. So far, we have had no major snags and we are back in Dresden as I type getting ready for the supper tonight. We were able to upgrade to an E class Benz for the rest of the week as the C class nav was not stock and kept shutting off on us








For no extra charge , they upgraded us to a black E class. Not bad at all.
So far it seems to cost around $120 to fill up the tank each time. OUCH!!
We were fueling up somewhere between Stuttgart and Dresden and up drove Daniel (Swissphaeton) in his blue 4 seater !!! We have never met until then and then we saw him again as we both just happened to pass in front of the VW glass factory again this afternoon. He didn't see us but of course, we couldn't miss him.
He is attending the dinner tonight with us.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Dear "dcowan007" your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to seek understanding and enlightenment at the glass factory. Hope you have your spy camera with you. Good luck Dave! 
We are counting on you 007!










_Modified by Paldi at 11:47 AM 5-17-2006_


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Be careful Fred , this is not a secure line!!


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Last night was a fabulous dinner and I sat with David Wicks (in charge of US sales). I knew I had seen him before as he looked familiar . Turns out I met him last year in Auburn Hills at the first GTG.
He and I talked for a couple of hours as I sat at the table with him.
David and Sue (uberanalyst) was also sitting straight across from me and Brent and they are such nice folks and seemed to enjoy everything. The time flew by as we looked down at the time and it was 10:30. Knowing we have the tour early the next morning, we decided to hit the sack.
Daniel, Rob, Rob's family, Sandra(our host) and so many others all had a great time. We really didn't have enough time to chat much but we hope to make up for it today. 
We are really a part of a unique and friendly group of folks. Such passion for such a great car. Pictures will follow ASAP. Maybe tonight Brent and I can put them up with a photobucket that Brent has.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

This was certainly a terrific day as we toured Dresden's beautiful homes, museums, churches, streets and cultural history. The weather was not great but we were only sprinkled on at times.
The factory tour was truly awesome. We started out by meeting some of the senior staff at the main meeting room where we watched a short movie about the factory.
Then we ate lunch in the in-house cafe. 
Afterwards, we broke out into groups of 5 or 6 with about 4 groups total. Overall, I'd say 25 people attended.
We were escorted to the area where all of the individualization can be decided on about your car's build....i.e. leather choices, wheels, color , options, etc.
Then we toured the plant as we could actually see each of the stages of the car coming together including the "marriage" of the body with the powertrain. 
Afterwards, we had about an hour to ask questions to the staff and discuss various issues.
As far as pictures go, Brent and I are going to try to put them up in his photobucket and spare the forum of showing a bunch of pictures. Right now, I have to be somewhere and later I hope to post more info about questions asked. I asked questions about the long term servicing of the car, Jack asked can a turbo Bentley motor be put in a Phaeton, we all asked if the Phaeton is going to remain in production and , if so, what features and changes will occur.
I need some time to formulate my thoughts as everything is a blur at this moment.
All I can say is , "Thanks to Sandra, Chris and so many others for formulating this wonderful trip!!". It has been wonderful. The transparent factory is truly a work of art and craftsmanship unlike any thing I've ever seen.


----------



## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Did you guys ask any of the questions about the cars future posted on here by myself and various others? 
What impression did you get? Do they plan on continuing the vehicle past this model cycle?


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (fhq547)*

My take on it (just my opinion) is that VW is willing to support the Phaeton for many years. Their seems to be no reason to believe they will cease it's production. Just like most other luxury cars like Audi and Lexus and others, it takes much time to get a luxury car in full swing. They understand the passion for this car and I see no reason why it's production will cease. No direct answer was given . Just an affirmation of its importance to VW and that we have nothing to worry about as far as its maintenance support in the future (that's really important for NA owners). As far as new models and upgrades, I'm sorry but we couldn't get any straight answers. I do know that DVD nav is being placed in current cars as well as blue-tooth technology and that if (big if) USA gets another shot at a Phaeton, I'm almost certain that we would get that. I do know that OnStar is over and done with (thank heavens). Anyway, most of the conversation centered around continued support in terms of maintenance. We were re-assurred of technical and mechanical support. For me, that was the important thing because I love my car and I simply needed reassurance that I would be taken care of from a mechanical standpoint ( I'll have to deal with warranty later on my own).

*Michael: Many hats were off to you today because without your dedication to this forum, this entire group of Phaeton lovers would have never developed and the passion we have for the Phaeton from a N.A. perspective would have long faded away. Again, much applause to your hard work and dedication and we all missed you today. Hope to see you in the near future. *
I'm sure I will think of other topics we discussed and that others will eventually chime in on this later as they return home.


----------



## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_My take on it (just my opinion) is that VW is willing to support the Phaeton for many years. Their seems to be no reason to believe they will cease it's production. Just like most other luxury cars like Audi and Lexus and others, it takes much time to get a luxury car in full swing. They understand the passion for this car and I see no reason why it's production will cease. No direct answer was given . Just an affirmation of its importance to VW and that we have nothing to worry about as far as its maintenance support in the future (that's really important for NA owners). As far as new models and upgrades, I'm sorry but we couldn't get any straight answers. I do know that DVD nav is being placed in current cars as well as blue-tooth technology and that if (big if) USA gets another shot at a Phaeton, I'm almost certain that we would get that. 


Frankly this inspires me with no confidence at all. Why wouldn't they give you any straight answers? What have they got to hide? Surely if they were going to continue the car, they would just tell you straight out and that would be the end of the matter. 
The news I got here was that there was no DVD nav cars due in the UK. Did they tell you about the DVD nav? Did they mention any markets for it?


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_ As far as new models and upgrades, I'm sorry but we couldn't get any straight answers. 


What exactly did they say? Were they being evasive?


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (fhq547)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_Frankly this inspires me with no confidence at all. Why wouldn't they give you any straight answers? What have they got to hide? Surely if they were going to continue the car, they would just tell you straight out and that would be the end of the matter.

What do you want them to say? What would you like to be told? 
As far as I'm concerned, VW remains committed to the Phaeton -- both with respect to Owners in the NAR and to the vehicle as a whole. Period. 

_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_The news I got here was that there was no DVD nav cars due in the UK. Did they tell you about the DVD nav? Did they mention any markets for it?

The news I got from a UK Owner at the GTG today was the DVD NAV is already in the '06 Phaeton.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Pictures... pictures... pictures.... puh-leez!!!!!


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

What would i like them to say? How about the car has a future? That the technology will be upgraded? That its ok to go ahead and spend thousands of pounds? 
These are the people who make the thing after all. If they won't give you a straight answer, that has to raise alarm bells. 
I've not heard of any UK Phaeton with DVD Nav. No dealer has told me it's here either. If you could ask the person you spoke to, to please give details it would be appeciated.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (fhq547)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_What would i like them to say? How about the car has a future? That the technology will be upgraded? That its ok to go ahead and spend thousands of pounds? 
These are the people who make the thing after all. If they won't give you a straight answer, that has to raise alarm bells. 

I'm not surprised that they keep things under wraps as long as they can. Say a car company announces all the great things they're going to put in next year's model. What would that do to the sales of the current model year's vehicle? It's inside information for a reason.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (fhq547)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_Frankly this inspires me with no confidence at all. Why wouldn't they give you any straight answers? What have they got to hide? Surely if they were going to continue the car, they would just tell you straight out and that would be the end of the matter. 


Sir:
Most of the people who are posting on this thread (myself included) have a pretty good relationship with the staff at the factory in Dresden - we know these folks on a first-name basis, and have no reason to not trust what they say to us, because they have a well-established track record of telling the truth. The VW staff in Dresden have also provided all of us in this forum with superb support from 'behind the scenes' over the past year and a half.
Perhaps be just a little bit more thoughtful about how you compose your comments in the future - we are a fairly collegial group here, not a combative group.
With thanks,
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (fhq547)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_
Frankly this inspires me with no confidence at all. Why wouldn't they give you any straight answers? What have they got to hide? Surely if they were going to continue the car, they would just tell you straight out and that would be the end of the matter. 
The news I got here was that there was no DVD nav cars due in the UK. Did they tell you about the DVD nav? Did they mention any markets for it?



*They will continue with the car!!! * I even asked,"Is their anything within the meeting that we should not say?". They said we could share any info we just heard today . So they are not hiding anything. I just don't know when or if a N.A. model will return. Otherwise, the Phaeton is strong and doing well in so many other markets that I can't see its production stopping anytime soon.
Quite frankly, we didn't get enough time for Q & A, but what time we had assurred me that we have nothing to worry about. I , however, would never pin down an executive to an answer about a car's future anyway.
Please give us more time to make further comments as I and Chris (who concurred with me ) have the only internet access at this time apparently and you may get more affirmation from others within a few days. Don't panic as they assurred us they are standing behind the Phaeton for a long time in every respect.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Sounds like the trip is a blast. Learning things, New friends and most important







German Beer








Finally got to use that Icon. Brent where are the pictures!


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

You sound convinced. I really hope you're right. It's also encouraging to see Michael's comments about the fact that you guys know some people from the factory who have also apparently been visiting this forum. 
I'd been considering the competition over the past couple of days and it wasn't a pretty sight at all. I'm bored to death by Mercedes. BMW is all style and no substance etc etc. Only the Phaeton floats my boat in ways other cars just can't reach. 
I've seen comments mentioning 2007. Is that when a facelift is due of some kind? Did that news come from the factory?
Also, could you please ask the person from the UK who mentioned DVD Nav to post details?
_Modified by fhq547 at 1:24 AM 5-19-2006_


_Modified by fhq547 at 1:25 AM 5-19-2006_


----------



## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*



dcowan699 said:


> I just don't know when or if a N.A. model will return. Otherwise, the Phaeton is strong and doing well in so many other markets that I can't see its production stopping anytime soon. QUOTE]
> Did they mention anything about the market for the car worldwide? If so, which markets are they happiest with?


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## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

fhq547 
The guys on this site in Dresden have about the best relationship with a major motor manufacturer a private client can have.
Perhaps a trip there would tip you over the edge Ryanair flights are cheap and you can speak to them and spec your car under the Individual program or if they can't satisfy you at least you've had a good short break.
I suspect that no car will offer you what you want but the Lexus/Phaeton/BMW/Merc hybrid does not exist.
I don't often take customers in my car but did the other day and they could not stop talking about the car and were blown away when I told them what it cost.


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (culverwood)*

Hi culverwood, 
Thanks for your reply. Are you a VW salesperson or executive? 
I agree with you totally. No one car will give you everything you want. My heart is set on the Phaeton. It's just I need to know that the car will be around and also it would be great if it were upgraded given that so much has already happened to the Touareg. 
I will definitely go to the Factory in Dresden. I've spoken to my local dealer here about it and they're going to get back to me. 
Actually, part of my fear about the car being discontinued to be honest with you was that my dealer himself told me he'd heard some uncomfirmed rumours. You can imagine how that felt like to hear. 
Do the Ryan air flights go straight to Dresden?
I'm waiting to see what others who've been to the factory have to say about what they were told about the cars future. 
If you have any info, it would be most appreciated. 


_Modified by fhq547 at 7:02 AM 5-19-2006_


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going!*

GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM - From Horsepower to the Popemobile
DER SPIEGEL ^ | May 18, 2006 | Christian Wüst

Posted on 05/19/2006 5:17:10 AM PDT by Atlantic Bridge

On Friday, Mercedes-Benz will open the world's largest museum dedicated to automobiles. The grand new museum will present the icons of the German automobile industry -- from the earliest cars right up to the Popemobile. 
The building couldn't be more German. It's equipped with incredible technology, and yet it looks a bit beat-up somehow. It almost resembles a dented can. 
On Friday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel will travel to Stuttgart to celebrate the inauguration of the city's new Mercedes Museum. The museum, located near the Mercedes-Benz factory in the Untertürkheim neighborhood, is meant to emphasize the German industrial giant's mythological grandeur. Like most major new museums, a good deal of that is conveyed through its structure. 









How far away is Stuttgart


_Modified by Kcmover at 7:34 AM 5-19-2006_


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## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

*Re: (fhq547)*

fhq547

No I'm not a VW or any other car company executive.
The Ryanair flights go to what they call Leipzig which is in fact an old Red Army base half-way between Leipzig and Dresden about 1.5 hour away by hire car.
I know what you say about the upgrades on the Touareg, I've seen the adverts but they ain't the same thing, one's a truck the other's a car. I take your point though.
The UK dealers seem to have an "Ignore the Phaeton" attitude and you have to be lucky to find one who knows anything about it and then luckier still to find one who cares.


_Modified by culverwood at 7:37 AM 5-19-2006_


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

ASK about a wood steering wheel option with heat, like Cadillac and Lexus.
Perhaps, providing feedback with ideas on what needs to happen in order to bring the Phaeton back to NA would be useful to them. Limiting the dealers, providing a stronger/smaller network of dealers who know what they are doing and are well informed, and have good relations with customers, AND good strategic marketing. (Example: Look at how Lexus is marketing the new ES350, and I am sure the LS460 will have a big campaign this summer/fall, and look at how GM markets HUMMER. Perhaps they can learn something. Using the German Bentley slant, or a german automobile engineered to be a classic automobile that is simple to use for the driver and passenger, yet engineered to be the best automobile - PHAETON - ENGINEERING MARVEL - AUTOMOTIVE PERFECTION (kind of a take on Lexus persuing perfection marketing etc.etc. ) 



_Modified by dzier at 8:23 AM 5-19-2006_


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (culverwood)*

Hi Culverwood, 
I've driven a demonstrator on 18inch Innovation rims. I would be interested in getting the 19" Helios rims myself but I've never experienced the ride in a Phaeton on 19's. Do you know if I would be able to get the chance to experience this at Dresden?
The reason I asked if you had something to do with VW was because you mentioned customers and your own car. 
You say the Touareg is a truck in response to what I said earlier. You're being very unfair to call it a truck. It's a beautifully crafted machine and for a first time effort in the segment, I think it's brilliant. It's the only other car that exists in the VW Luxury barn. And it's getting lots of upgrades and lots more spec for your money. When you consider the Phaeton is only getting small upgrades in drips and drabs, you have to think about it. 
My dealer isn't disinterested in the car. In fact they've sold about 9 Phaetons which is excellent for a UK dealership. He just said he'd heard rumours about discontinuation from more than one source. 
Is there any more direct way of getting to Dresden? A connecting flight maybe?

_Modified by fhq547 at 9:58 AM 5-19-2006_


_Modified by fhq547 at 10:02 AM 5-19-2006_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (dzier)*

We've been traveling all day, I'm tired but now I have free internet up here on the coast of the Baltic Sea in Rostock








Terrence and myself asked most of the questions. I asked more questions about service and maintenance whereas someone else point blank asked the question about the availability of Phaetons again in USA/Canada. It just boils down to a marketing and Euro exchange issue. US market just doesn't support a $60 K + VW and the euro exchange KILLED their profitability. The money exchange is the most important part of the equation. I really don't think the low sales numbers would bother VW because Audi was slow to gain momentum a few years back. Also realize that to sell an updated Phaeton in America in the future would force VW to have to go through all the loops to get the US importers happy with emmision standards and other safety regulations and that all adds up to the cost of bringing it back. To be honest, I don't think getting a Phaeton in the USA again looks good, but NEVER GIVE UP HOPE. I think the head men at the table said "Never say never". I'm not sure of that quote but I'm almost 99% positive that was said.
Right now just be happy you have a Phaeton if you do and hopefully the Phaeton will remain in existence for decades so that parts will be readily available even though we can't buy one at the moment.
My idea of allowing Bentley dealerships and extremely motivated VW dealerships to become a network of qualified techs may be a future option and consideration as we all know not all VW dealerships are experienced enough nor capable of handling this car.
Mr. Wicks (NA representative at the meeting) said that they are completely committed to ensure the longevity of the service and parts for our cars. That to me is the most important and satisfying thing I heard all day.
I'm sorry though, but we could not get a straight answer about whether the Phaeton will return to USA. I think eventually it will come back once they introduce some middle of the road models (around the $50K mark for example first) and then sneak back into the higher luxury models later on once America sees that VW can indeed compete in the market. The Phaeton is not a failure. The failure is USA customers and their attitudes along with the euro exchange problem. 
I believe at this point I will keep quite about this topic as I've said about all that I can remember. You'll just have to take what I say and what others may can add to this and summarize on a later day. So far, most have not responded I suppose because they don't have access to a computer. 
If you could just witness the factory, you'd come out believing that this car definitely has a bright future.
I'm anxious to read what others have to say that were there and after that , I may have a refreshed memory of what all was said.
After we get a bite to eat, Brent and I will try to photobucket some pix later.


----------



## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_How far away is Stuttgart

It's 507km SW of Dresden
- Take the A4/E40 toward Chemnitz and go 65km
- Merge onto the A72/E441 toward Zwickau and go 105km
- Merge onto the A9/E51 toward Nurnberg and go 116km
- Merge onto A6/E50 toward Heilbronn and go 146km
- Merge onto A81/E41 towards Stuttgart
Good luck!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (OEMpl.us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OEMpl.us* »_It's 507km SW of Dresden...

True, but I can tell you from much experience that it only takes about 3 hours to drive that route, providing you don't do it at morning or evening rush hour. Except for a short, narrow stretch of roadway around Nürnberg and some construction through the city of Bayreuth, it's wide open throttle all the way.
Michael


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## Swiss_Phaeton (Jun 11, 2005)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (PanEuropean)*

I just arrived home, the w12 is still cooling down from the long trip home. We had so much fun that he asks for new brake pads. 
The Dresden GTG was really great. The Phaeton owner community is really unique. The factory and the people at the Transparent Factory are very special and the really deserve recognition for the great work they do. 
Many thanks for everybody who made this happen.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (Swiss_Phaeton)*

Ahem... Photos????


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Ahem... Photos????

















































Here are a few to begin with. More to come. Brent is teaching me how to use photobucket.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (dcowan699)*

A few more pictures.


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (Swiss_Phaeton)*

What impression did you get about the future of the car from the people there, feel positive?


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (fhq547)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_What impression did you get about the future of the car from the people there, feel positive?

Everybody except your dealer gets a positive impression about the future of the Phaeton. And your dealer admits they have just heard rumors. Asking over and over again isn't going to get you more concrete information. Take the hint! Enough already! 
I don't think you really want impressions. I think you want someone at VW to give you an ironclad statement that the car will be produced for x number of years. I don't think you're going to get that.


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## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (fhq547)*

Hi all, just arrived back Dresden to Calais 601 miles in under 10 hours. About an average of 63mph.. What a delight this machine is.
WOW... what a trip and what visit I have only skimmed over previous posts, so my only comments at this stage if you considering buying a Phaeton is just do it, either you have faith in your own judgment or you do not not, there are no guarantees in life. Go there and take a look for your self I think you will be surprised
From the visit and my reading of the comments made are, the Phaeton in Europe are in safe hands the commitment in plant and the technology cannot easily be dismissed certainly in the short to medium term... over the next 3 to five years with the upgrade being in 2009. For NA my feeling is a number of issues need to be resolved before reintroducing the vehicle such as the cost of building vehicles for the NA market is out of balance and the issue of brand perception by purchasers. 
Having previously owned most of the marques over the years this machine is something else.






















To all UK owners and potential owners 'go see' if you have not seen how can you comment.








Me, I would like to do the trip again...


_Modified by pilgrim7777 at 9:42 PM 5-19-2006_


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Nice pictures.... The Factory looks like you could eat off the grounds. Can't wait to see more picture. Who's the stiff in the tie and coat







*


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (Kcmover)*

Nice photos, indeed (that's my wife Sue and myself with the group in the Dresden Hilton lobby). It was really great to meet everyone. We're now staying at the Ritz hotel in Wolfsburg after another terrific day that started out with most of our Phateon group on a paddlewheel steamboat ride up the Elbe River from Dresden. Again, thanks to Chris, Eve, Sandra, Michael and everyone for making this such a worthwhile event.
After seeing the glass factory, it really saddens me to know that the US won't get any more Phaetons. If only more VWoA folks would come to Dresden, then maybe they'd get a better sense of why they need to bring back such a special car. I fully understand the business reasons (exchange rates, certification testing costs, etc.) behind withdrawal of the Phateon from North America, but it's unfortunate that the only way to get a Phaeton now is to purchase one disgused as a Bentley Flying Spur.
After the boat ride, Chris was kind enough to offer us a ride from Dresden to Wolfsburg, but we were quite surprised and delighted when he pulled up in a rented W12 with radar cruise control! All I can say is WOW! The way the cruise control automatically applies the brakes as you approach traffic up ahead on the Autobahn is unreal, and the quiet thrust of the W12 engine accelerating back up to warp speeds has to be experienced to be believed. We took a couple of photos of the speedometer to prove the W12's high-speed performance, but I'll leave it to Chris to post one. 
Tomorrow is our tour of the Autostadt museum here in Wolfsburg, as well as VW's off-road Touareg driving experience. I look forward to abusing a Touareg that's not mine.








- Dave


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (fhq547)*

There are many SUVs that drive and ride much better than a Toureg. It is too trucklike. VW needs to work that out the next version.


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (dzier)*

Are you kidding? The Touareg is one of the best bang for the $$$ you can get.. You haven't driven a V8 or V10 with Air suspension have you? Just curious.


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: (dzier)*

No way is the Touareg a truck!
I've driven a Touareg on air suspension and it was much more refined than something like an X5. Along with the better ride quality than the X5, the Touareg's dynamics were also quite good with pitch and roll fairly minimal.


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (pilgrim7777)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pilgrim7777* »_
To all UK owners and potential owners 'go see' if you have not seen how can you comment.








]

Hi pilgrim, 
Would you know the easiest way to get there from the Midlands? Culverwood mentioned Ryan air flights to Leipzig and then a 1.5 hour drive to Dresden. Does Dresden have an airport itself and would it be possible to get a connecting flight there?
Looking at the pictures of the plant, it does look exceptional. You can see the massive focus and ambition that Piech and company had for the car and it translates very well into the brilliant machine they produced at the end of it. 
Do they make absolutely nothing but Phaetons there then? If so that is amazing ambition for just one car isn't it? You would think that after all that they would continue with it. The fear I suppose could be that they could decide to take the excess demand off the plant at Crewe and start making Bentleys there.
I didn't know that the new one was due in 2009 or that even a new one was due at all. Was that announced to you on your trip to the factory?
Wow, you drove all the way! I could never see myself doing that. Besides, I've never driven on the other side of the road before and suspect I may get it very wrong. 



_Modified by fhq547 at 2:11 AM 5-20-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_Do they make absolutely nothing but Phaetons there then? ...they could decide to take the excess demand off the plant at Crewe and start making Bentleys there.

The plant is primarily a Phaeton plant. But, they do make Bentley Flying Spurs (basically a Phaeton with status badges on the front and the back) on the same assembly line during their spare time. The two vehicles are virtually identical.
North American car buyers, who dismissed the Phaeton because it wasn't ostentatious or flashy enough, just can't get their hands on the Bentley Flying Spurs fast enough. VW will sell more Flying Spurs in NAR this year than even their best year selling Phaetons. And, of course, VW is laughing all the way to the bank - if you want the Flying Spur appearance package on your Phaeton, you pay an extra ₤30,000 for it.
Bentley Flying Spurs destined for the NAR market are built in the UK, so the owners can brag that they have a British luxury car. Flying Spurs destined for the Continental European market and ROW markets other than the UK or NAR are built in Dresden. The Europeans have a somewhat different perception of the (past) quality of British built cars.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (fhq547)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_I didn't know that the new one was due in 2009 or that even a new one was due at all. Was that announced to you on your trip to the factory?

It's well known to everyone who has participated in this forum for a while. The factory staff don't spell everything out in black and white, however, it's fairly easy to read between the lines. There are already a few fully constructed pre-production prototypes of the next Phaeton in the factory, though not in the public areas. As much as I am sure the staff would love to show them to us, the nature of the auto industry is such that they cannot do that. And, as much as we would like to see them, basic courtesy dictates that we don't ask.
Michael


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Bentley Flying Spurs destined for the NAR market are built in the UK, so the owners can brag that they have a British luxury car. Flying Spurs destined for the Continental European market and ROW markets other than the UK or NAR are built in Dresden. The Europeans have a somewhat different perception of the (past) quality of British built cars.

Everything you say is very true Michael. When you think about it, it's amazing how gullible people are and how easy they are to exploit. I don't blame VW for making Flying spurs there. If people are stupid enough to fall for it, why not? 
I didn't know the Flying Spur is made on the same assembly line as the Phaeton! That really is mocking the people who buy it isnt it? Externally, is the only thing that's different between two cars the badges, some of the body panels and the light clusters then? 
I've already seen plenty of Flying Spurs round where I live. Amazing what a Bentley badge can do. It reflects more on the public rather than the Phaeton itself. Personally I think that the Flying spur is very poorly designed. The GT coupe doesn't translate well directly into a saloon car. The Phaeton's design is gorgeous in comparison. In fact if they'd just come out with the Phaeton as a Bentley from day one, I suspect it would have become one of the greatest selling saloon cars of all time. 
As for british built cars, I live in a city where there are lots of them made. The Range Rover is made about 25 mins from where I live and so too are all the Jaguars. The quality of both is nowhere remotely near something like the Phaeton. The Range Rover in particular.


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: GERMANY'S NEW MERCEDES MUSEUM opens... Are you going! (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ There are already a few fully constructed pre-production prototypes of the next Phaeton in the factory, though not in the public areas. 

Really? How do you know? Do you know of any of the significant changes due to the new one? Personally, I hope they use some lighter materials to bring down the overall weight of the car and improve it's dynamics. Of course all the technical upgrades would be good also but I suspect they'll be doing that as a matter of course. 
I suppose given that you know this, you must be very dissapointed that the new one isn't due to your shores.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_*Nice pictures.... The Factory looks like you could eat off the grounds. Can't wait to see more picture. Who's the stiff in the tie and coat







*

That would be the new "NAR VW Phaeton Ambassador," managing all Kansas City Phaeton owners. _Now be nice._








Regards,
Brent


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (W126C)*

*Nice new title, Its hard being nice living in Kansas, are you ready to follow that yellow brick road home*

_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_
That would be the new "NAR VW Phaeton Ambassador," managing all Kansas City Phaeton owners. _Now be nice._








Regards,
Brent


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## Traveller (Jan 6, 2006)

Well, I hope the Phaeton isn't discontinued worldwide. Does anyone know the history of the "S class", "A8", or the "7 series"? Did these cars have such a rocky start as Phaeton?
To those of you who attended the GTG:
do you feel VW gave you anything extra because you were Phaeton owners? I was surprised to learn you don't have to be a Phaeton owner to get private factory tour with lunch, concierges at many 5 star hotels can easily organize group and private tours.
what were the highlights of the trip for you?
was there any place to buy Phaeton souvenirs/memorabilia?


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: (Traveller)*

I don't think the A8 topped 1000 sales in the US until the current design in 2004. 10 years of underwelming sales, but they stuck it out.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (fhq547)*

I think the Bentley Flying Spur has a different purpose than the Phaeton. To compete against the Rolls Royce and Maybech, it needs to be large, bold, trees of wood and acres of leather. The Phaeton is more understated. The Spur is bling, the Phaeton flies under the radar. Bentley already has a name, VW should have intentionally marketed the Phaeton instead of letting it just be.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (dzier)*

Speaking of flying Spurs, check out this Bentley picture taken on a Dresden street - was the Smart a "lifecar?"









Rob


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (Gobuster)*

Here are some more pics.
The dentists David and Brent outside the factory:








Something we don't get








A beautiful interior, not available in our NA market








One on the dining areas in the factory








A lovely Antibe Blue (my color) on the show floor








More in due course!
Rob


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (Gobuster)*

Here is the link to a video of the rear seat table in action, hope it works!
http://s7.photobucket.com/albu...3.flv


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (Gobuster)*

Video works great! I have to say that you've got an odd collection of photos in your account. I'm jealous of your garage, but what happened to your house?


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (Gobuster)*

Rob,
Who is that stiff in the suit?


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (pirateat50)*

* Darn that stiff in the suit sure does draw attention*


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Dresden Phaeton GTG impressions*

I'll be posting my pics sometime next week. Jim (and his camera) are still somewhere in Germany/France/Switzerland. I'm going to wait until I've got the complete batch, including the Nurburing pics.
I had a great time meeting everybody, a big huge thank you to Tomasz Majdan and his lovely Coucou Gray FWD SWB 3.2 Phaeton. Jim and I hitched a ride with Tomasz to the Berlin Airshow, where we saw another Coucou Gray Phaeton with "special" plates parked near the new Airbus 380...Phaeton looked tiny in comparison...
Daniel (Swiss_Phaeton) was a delightful dinner companion. Phaeton owners, from all over the world, are some the nicest people I've ever meet. As Tomasz said, he just wanted to meet other people that are crazy about the Phaeton. I find the community surround the Phaeton, from David Wicks and Diane Hawley at VWoA, to Sandra Domse in Dresden to the Phaeton forum members easy to spend time with talking about everything and anything...and all things Phaeton...the Phaeton folks are the best!
PC
_Modified by PhaetonChix at 10:19 AM 5-22-2006_


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 2:56 PM 5-22-2006_


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_* Darn that stiff in the suit sure does draw attention*

Well, all I can say is stop by *my* place some time and I'll tell you the whole story. This could be where the new 2009 Phaeton is being R&D'ed.







But then again that is a secret.

















As I sit here in the US with my Beck's dark, sleep deprived, recalling the whole Germany experience; I must admit, no one should own a NAR (YW) Phaeton without touring the Die Glaserne Manufaktur. 
I love my car and I love where it was made. A true sense of appreciation. Only a few NAR owners will now know how special this automobile is.
I will send out more photographs later.
Regards,
Brent


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## pretendcto (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: May 17-18 GTG in Dresden (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_... I must admit, no one should own a NAR (YW) Phaeton without touring the Die Glaserne Manufaktur. I love my car and I love where it was made. A true sense of appreciation ...

You've captured my thoughts exactly except I wasn't able to go to Dresden at this time. Fortunately, my forum friends were able to go and I get a sense of appreciation that mere magazine reviews can't convey. I'm glad the GTG was a success and I'm appreciative of all of the photos and dialog. Thanks!!








PS - You'll probably get a German trim removal tool .... arrrrgggghhhhh


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## phaeton (Nov 30, 2002)

Hi guys any news on 2007MY Phaeton ? 
It is due to be unveiled next week I think.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaeton* »_It is due to be unveiled next week I think.

Correct - the official announcement will take place at the beginning of week 22 (May 28 or so). I'll still be in Africa then, so I won't be able to get any further information. I hope to be back in Europe around June 2 or so, and I'll drop by my Swiss VW dealer and see what info they have.
Michael


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Here is the Phaeton display at the Dresden airport. Look at the price.







Man did we get a deal or what?
Regards,
Brent


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## uk_nick (Mar 31, 2006)

Makes the price of V6tdi's in the UK look good too: I think in Germany you have to pay extra for things like parking sensors and sat nav that are standard on UK cars. In the UK, a new Phaeton is now actually cheaper than an Audi A6 with similar spec !


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (uk_nick)*

Some things I learned while in Germany. Evidently there appears to be a new law requiring the use of seat belts while setting at the bar. I'm sure this protects the patron from injury and the barkeep from a frivolous law suit. Rumor has it, lawyers from VWoNAR help institute the new law.















Regards,
Brent


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (W126C)*

Just some more pictures from the GTG Dresden and the Baltic Sea.
























Wednesday night's dinner was in this building.








It's hard to get pictures at these speeds. We were running at 225 kph. I felt good about it until Daniel said he was running 250 kph in his W12.
























Nude beach on the Ost Sea. Too cold.
























Rostock at the Ost Sea, East Sea is what it is called, aka Baltic Sea .








Regards,
Brent


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## Eyecare (Apr 20, 2006)

You can drive 255 kph in many cars - the real question is how did the car feel at the speed you were doing, whatever it was? I drove my US spec V8 from the port of Bremerhaven to Heidelberg last week gradually increasing my speed as I went until I hit around 200 kph and I must admit it felt very stable even in the driving rain. The thing that slowed me down was my wife nudging me in the side. (She doesn't like it when I drive fast.) Sure, you can go faster in a V12 and even faster in a Bentley but that's just bragging rights. Driving in the 150 mph+ range, while nice to be able to do, takes sigificantly more concentration and sucks up more gas as well.


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## Eyecare (Apr 20, 2006)

Oh yes, I wish I could have attended the gtg in Dresden but other responsibilities prevented my participation. Lis and I really enjoyed Dresden the last time we were there. We stayed in the Hilton as well and thought the city and surrounding countryside were wonderful. The cathedral next door was still under repair then so it's been some time.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (Eyecare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Eyecare* »_You can drive 255 kph in many cars - the real question is how did the car feel at the speed you were doing, whatever it was? 
Driving in the 150 mph+ range, while nice to be able to do, takes significantly more concentration and sucks up more gas as well.

Funny thing is the C class MB was far more stable feeling than the E class MB we had in Germany. David said he had the same problem with an E class here in the US.







I'm sure Danial's W-12 was just loping along at 255 kph. Isn't that one of the things the Phaeton is suppose to be all about?
I've driven at 150 mph before but not over such a long periods. Just short burst. Yes, 220-225 kph was intense and required all my concentration. Mainly worrying about other drivers. I had know idea how many Missouri drivers are in Germany. God was it fun though.







The fuel is just not an issue. I was there to have fun. *And I had fun*. There is still a big grin on my face. If I would have had a Phaeton under my butt, I would still be there now.
Regards,
Brent


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## Swiss_Phaeton (Jun 11, 2005)

*Re: (W126C)*

The Phaeton is the most stable car I have experienced at speeds of 250 kph and more. Since 1990 I always owned a car capable of such speeds, so I can compare quite well. The Bentley wheels and tired improved the stability a lot. I can now run 250 kph in comfort setting. I had my V-max limiter removed on the W12, so it should now run 285 kph. So far I had no chance to test this.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (W126C)*

*I heard the folks at Fuel were going to be outfitting a barstool like this for you







* Need to protect that "NAR VW Phaeton Ambassador" 










_Modified by Kcmover at 8:25 AM 5-26-2006_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle*

Her Highness, Crespusculia (George, get out your thesaurus):








And, after dining on the liver of the fatted goose & Argentinian beef so tender you cut it with a fork, I'm going on a diet.


_Modified by chrisj428 at 3:48 PM 5-30-2006_


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## Texas Roadhog (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (Swiss_Phaeton)*

I'm a bit disappointed -- what? No group photo of everyone who made the Dresden GTG???


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## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: (Texas Roadhog)*

Hi!
WE shot 580Photos. Will post soon!
Steve Covington


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (chrisj428)*

What's with the blind fold and handcuffs behind the back??
Huummm!!








Wish I could have made it. 
Looks like everyone had a great time.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (rmg2)*

Small group picture. Daniel, David and I (not in the picture because I was really in Jamaica







) spending big euro's on fuel. Nice shots of a short wheel base 4-seater. I didn't even know they made these. The long wheel base seems to rare in Germany.
Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (W126C)*

Nice wheels, Daniel!
I got back into ZRH this morning (finally, out of Africa...), I'll be here for a couple of weeks. I'd like to to see the wheels in person.
Michael


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (PanEuropean)*

Welcome back home Michael. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif When will you be back to NAR?
Regards,
Brent


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (W126C)*

Oh, I almost forgot the picture of this good looking English guy.
Note! Posted without permmission. Thanks Terrence








Regards,
Brent


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## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (W126C)*

Hi!
If I sent you guys the Dresden Photos, can you post them for
me? 
Thanks, Steve Covington


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (Steve Covington)*

Hi Steve:
Sure, just email them to me.
Michael


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## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (PanEuropean)*

Hi! Michael
Have photos ready to send. What address can I send them to?
Steve Covington


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (Steve Covington)*

I think you will find Michael's email address by clicking on Pan European at the top left hand side of any of his postings, for example two above.
PETER M


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## Steve Covington (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: My dinner dates at Eckberg Castle (PeterMills)*

Hi!
Thank-You! Have sent.
Steve


----------

