# valeo 3core radiator. opinions



## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

With getting the new motor figured since it's apart should get one. Found a review online. Said that it wasn't a 3 core but only a 2. Also the mishimoto one was also only 2.also said quality sucked. So I am wondering who here has the valeo and runs it. Problems with install. How's the car run cooler or no difference? Thanks


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

I've done it and it's well worth it! There is noticeably better cooling performance than OEM and the fit is OEM-like. Be careful when installing it because the fins are the flimsy type, they can easily get damaged if you don't pay attention and have tools or other parts coming in contact with the exposed fins. Good performance for the buck IMO. 


Go to post #87, 100, and 103 for specific information on the Valeo 3-row radiator upgrade. :beer:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Cooling-quot-a-different-approach-quot/page3


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## Late__Apex (Dec 2, 2007)

Agreed. Significantly better cooling.


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Cool think I'll bite then. 127 shipped is a steal.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

1fast2liter said:


> Cool think I'll bite then. 127 shipped is a steal.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Just installed one a few weeks ago. Haven't noticed benefits but haven't been logging coolant temps either. The benefits won't be seen until warmer weather moves in.


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## dsideimpakt (Feb 14, 2012)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I've done it and it's well worth it! There is noticeably better cooling performance than OEM and the fit is OEM-like. Be careful when installing it because the fins are the flimsy type, they can easily get damaged if you don't pay attention and have tools or other parts coming in contact with the exposed fins. Good performance for the buck IMO.
> 
> 
> Go to post #87, 100, and 103 for specific information on the Valeo 3-row radiator upgrade. :beer:
> ...


thanks for the references, im sold on the valeo for my tax refund shopping list.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

dsideimpakt said:


> thanks for the references, im sold on the valeo for my tax refund shopping list.


Money well spent! :beer:


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

I got one. I see what you mean about flimsy. Is this a true 3core. I read somewhere it's actually a 2 core

reply typed by trained monkeys


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

1fast2liter said:


> I got one. I see what you mean about flimsy. Is this a true 3core. I read somewhere it's actually a 2 core
> 
> reply typed by trained monkeys


Yeah, the fins aren't as thick as the OEM radiator (which is not necessarily a bad thing for cooling), therefore you need to be careful with the radiator so you don't damage them. There is actually a 2-row and a 3-row from Valeo, not sure which one you got and you'd have to check.


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Not sure. It's what ever one from ecs that I got. It was advertised as a 3row

reply typed by trained monkeys


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## Late__Apex (Dec 2, 2007)

My Valeo 3-row had part number 731606 on the box


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Thanks I'll look tomorrow when I get home

reply typed by trained monkeys


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## 1fast2liter (Apr 4, 2005)

Same part number just looks really thin for a 3 core

reply typed by trained monkeys


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## D2O (May 12, 2012)

So was this actually the 3-row or just a 2-row? I am looking to get one but seem to be finding conflicting information on the part numbers:

Amazon list the Valeo 731606 as 2-row.
Urotuning list the Valeo 1J0121253P as 3-row.
ECS Tuning calls 1J0121253P a 2-row.
Rockauto says those 2 part numbers are the same thing.

Does a 3 row still exist? Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

ECS's site used to call that part number a 3 row, otherwise I wouldn't have ordered it. It's slightly thicker than stock, but it's misleading because the fins are just sticking out further from the core, there isn't a true third row of cooling. After having gone through the summer with my main fan not working (smaller fan works, AC works, but car overheats if sitting in traffic), I can say the part ECS is selling doesn't cool any better than OEM.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Adam, the factory fan system is designed to regulate the stationary temperature in several stages. If the large fan (main stage) is not operational, it doesn't matter what radiator is in there, the temp will creep up and eventually allow overheating if sustained long enough. I had the exact same conditions as you do in my car (large fan not kicking), and temp creeped up with both stock and Valero units until I wired the large fan on a switch to manually operate the second stage with both fan at high speed. 

I dont think that's true gauge of the unit's performance (not saying that the two row you got is any improvement over stock). The 3-row I got showed acceptable improvement over stock, it was a while ago and I'm not sure when ECS stopped selling it and only offered the 2-row ones. 

BTW, why don't you drill a hole or two in your thermostat? It would, not only prevent air pocket formation, but also improve flow when the thermostat is partially or fully open. This will act as a bypass and regulate your static temperature threshold. Say it took, 2 min static for temp to creep up, with one whole drilled, it may take 5 min, with two holes, 10 min. And if you're like me with 4 holes in the stat, you may need to manually switch off the fans completely to prevent the temp from falling while standing still.


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## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

1fast2liter said:


> Found a review online. Said that it wasn't a 3 core but only a 2





1fast2liter said:


> It's what ever one from ecs that I got. It was advertised as a 3row





20v master said:


> ECS's site used to call that part number a 3 row, otherwise I wouldn't have ordered it. It's slightly thicker than stock, but it's misleading because the fins are just sticking out further from the core, there isn't a true third row of cooling.


^^^Truth
The Valeo "3 core" is not a true 3 core, its a 2 core but has thicker fins than the other 2 core stock replacements on the market giving it the appearance of a 3 core but it does have a greater surface area for better cooling


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Adam, the factory fan system is designed to regulate the stationary temperature in several stages. If the large fan (main stage) is not operational, it doesn't matter what radiator is in there, the temp will creep up and eventually allow overheating if sustained long enough. I had the exact same conditions as you do in my car (large fan not kicking), and temp creeped up with both stock and Valero units until I wired the large fan on a switch to manually operate the second stage with both fan at high speed.
> 
> I dont think that's true gauge of the unit's performance (not saying that the two row you got is any improvement over stock).


I'm not talking about stationary cooling when I said it's not delivering any better cooling than the OEM radiator I removed. Now that we are getting into cooler weather in the south, I see coolant temps higher than the termostat temp even when using cruise control for sustained periods of time. I actually forgot to install the 82*C thermostat when I did the radiator and deleted a lot of vac/coolant routing in addition to installing the SEM manifold. I have the correct hoses to delete the after run coolant pump and plan to do that and the thermostat this weekend. I had hoped that doing both would show an improvement over the stock setup, but won't know how much of that is the thermostat and how much is the radiator.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Thermostat impact is significant in the running temperature. The lower temperature thermostats, if you perform a hot water test, are also higher flow units compared the factory ones. Besides having a weaker spring that allows them to open earlier, they also create less restriction to allow more coolant flow to the radiator when fully opened. 

I probably said this before, but I ran an 82c one once in a NY winter, and the car struggled to stay in normal temperature at speed (works great for summer, and racing though). Swapped to a factory one and the running temp raised by 10* Celsius - not because of when the stat opens, but because when they were both open, the low temp unit allowed to much flow to the radiator for my climate.

These low temp/high flow stats won't raise the thermal heat dissipation of the system, but will have a noticeable impact by increasing radiator circuit flow. Do it before having a verdict on the radiators.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> These low temp/high flow stats won't raise the thermal heat dissipation of the system, but will have a noticeable impact by increasing radiator circuit flow. Do it before having a verdict on the radiators.


My thought about improving the system by deleting the after run pump was based on your comments about the system having too many redundant loops. I thought removing one more path would force more flow through the radiator. I've deleted the coolant lines that run over the firewall and under the intake mani and have a single return hose from the union on the main hose under the throttle body back to the reservoir. Regardless, I'm certainly not going to put the old OEM radiator back in. I just wasn't happy seeing 95*C coolant temps while cruising with a 92* T'stat in ~65*F weather. That screamed to me that the radiator wasn't even keeping things at 92* with little/no load on the motor for extended periods, but I never monitored coolant temps before I did the radiator upgrade.

Edit: 605*F ambient is HOT!


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> My thought about improving the system by deleting the after run pump was based on your comments about the system having too many redundant loops. I thought removing one more path would force more flow through the radiator. I've deleted the coolant lines that run over the firewall and under the intake mani and have a single return hose from the union on the main hose under the throttle body back to the reservoir. Regardless, I'm certainly not going to put the old OEM radiator back in. I just wasn't happy seeing 95*C coolant temps while cruising with a 92* T'stat in ~605*F weather. That screamed to me that the radiator wasn't even keeping things at 92* with little/no load on the motor for extended periods, but I never monitored coolant temps before I did the radiator upgrade.


Yes, deleting any extra loop in the system helps things flow, but that's after the radiator (in the pre-thermostat closed loop circuit). Our discussion though veered mostly about flow going to the radiator. This circuit of the coolant system is only regulated through the thermostat, and there is nothing else branching out of that line (straight from thermostat housing outlet to the radiator inlet). This means that a thermostat allowing more coolant flow to pass (when fully open), will raise the effectiveness of the system through flow (while still not necessarily raising the heatsink-ability). 

Soon it's going to be time for me to switch to my winter thermostat (an unmolested stock unit), I'll snap a few pics of both in hot water to demonstrate how the performance units let considerably more coolant flow past the guts. Swap that performance thermostat back (and even drill one small hole through it) and report. 

PS: if you haven't fixed your fan system to run at full capacity, you should wire pin 2 and 3 on a toggle switch like I did. That will allow you to manually switch both fan "on" at full speed for hot traffic situations. Works like a charm!

*Fan "on" switch:*


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> PS: if you haven't fixed your fan system to run at full capacity, you should wire pin 2 and 3 on a toggle switch like I did. That will allow you to manually switch both fan "on" at full speed for hot traffic situations. Works like a charm!


I installed a known working fan control module last weekend with no change, so I'm not sure if the fan itself is burned up. Ran out of daylight before I could wire it straight to hot to confirm, but I have another fan from my 180Q that I can install. I'll install the 82* thermostat this weekend and report back on both probably Monday. :thumbup::beer:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

20v master said:


> I installed a known working fan control module last weekend with no change, so I'm not sure if the fan itself is burned up. Ran out of daylight before I could wire it straight to hot to confirm, but I have another fan from my 180Q that I can install. I'll install the 82* thermostat this weekend and report back on both probably Monday. :thumbup::beer:


Btw, just jump/bridge 2 and 3 out of the 3-prong plug that goes to thermostatic switch that's mounted on driver side of the radiator. Bridged (pin 2 and 3), both fan should kick in bypassing the control module. Takes 30 seconds with a paper clip. :thumbup:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Btw, just jump/bridge 2 and 3 out of the 3-prong plug that goes to thermostatic switch that's mounted on driver side of the radiator. Bridged (pin 2 and 3), both fan should kick in bypassing the control module. Takes 30 seconds with a paper clip. :thumbup:


Yeah, I tried it with a wired fuse holder. I got a spark and no fans, nor a blown fuse, hence why I think the fan itself is dead.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Yeah, that's likely a dead fan :-(


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Yeah, that's likely a dead fan :-(


03 GTI w/ 240K miles = original fans
other 03 GTI w/167K miles = original fans
01 TT w/ 74K miles = dead fan. :banghead:


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

Still running original radiator. Perhaps an upgrade this winter.


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