# 2.0T BPY engines VS M1 0W -40



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

searched for this but couldn't find anything
I wonder what peoples opinions on this oil is for the 2.0T BPY i have been using it for about 15k km and two oil changes and have noticed allot less burn off compared to the dealer filled castrol 5w -40. 
I know some people are claiming that 0W -40 is **** for the 2.0T, mainly because it shears itself to all hell by 5k (which most oils seem to do with the 2.0T) i know the shear level on M1 is like 3.7 compared to an oil people seem to love like redline 5w -40 which i believe was 4.0. 
In the long term if i change my oil every 5k to 7k will the M1 0W -40 be just as effective? it seems from running the car it is. I have a UOI in the mail and will see how the M1 is after 6k KM. 
I know M1 is very good oil for cleaning and has a great reputation for many years, also is very effective turbo based syth oil. 
I don't think i will jump to redline anytime soon for 2 reasons hard to get a hold of and 2 not warranty approved. 
I drive my car pretty hard and keep to about 70/30 highway/city. 
In the long run am i safe with M1? 
Thanks for the answers in advance!


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: 2.0T BPY engines VS M1 0W -40 (tdotA3mike)*

IMO M1 0w40 is a very good oil that may do well in many cars. It is a master at being built to meet manufacturers specs. Some might say it is built down to those specs. But if one were a crappy dino user, they would say it is built "up" to those specs. For the 2.0 FSI however, I believe based on the data that it is inadequate except for very light use cars (adeere's 99% highway runs are an example where it should do fine). 
This oil shows high shear, varying from 15-25%, and high iron levels. Flashpoints are generally depressed with this oil in this engine. The high iron levels may be an indicator of increased wear but need to interpret UOAs carefully to determine that. It is clear that iron levels are higher than average with this oil. TBN retention on this oil has been good.
Here is a quote from Terry Dyson, ultra oil guru of dyson anlaysis, on using this oil in a BMW 335i, that should tell you everything you need to know re: running this oil in a DI turbo engine. 
"reb03, the M1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it. "
Here are the high iron levels in ppm/1000 miles on the 2.0 FSI. The x axis is miles on vehicle. Personally, I would not run this oil in my car nor syntec 5W40. It is not stout enough, does not deal well with fuel dilution, and anti-wear additives are too low for the flat tappet cam follower IMO.










_Modified by saaber2 at 1:36 PM 12-2-2009_


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

Hey Saaber2 thanks for the post! then should it be imperative that i switch to something Redline? or can motul/GC effective enough?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

I definitely would not say imperative. It is not like your car will blow up from using an inadequate oil. It is more long term issues and depends on how well one wants to treat their car. Some people are on lease and could care less about treating their car right, for example. Others like me, maintain their car as if they will keep it forever, even if they won't keep it forever. My experience over the years has been "if you take care of your car it will take care of you". The cost difference of running the highest end oils vs. run-of-the-mill 502 oils in one year is about the cost of a tank of gas or less.
If you are concerned about using a 502 oil and don't want to deal with buying and then returning 502 oil to have adequate receipts, then GC or the highest end Motul that is on the 502 list would be good options IMO. Motul x-lite 0W30 appears to have high ester content, very high anti-wear additives and is 502 approved. I haven't seen any 2.0 FSI uoas on it yet but on other cars it looks to be a loaded oil.
If you want to use non-502 oils you have lots of options such as Motul 300v (I assume it is not on the list), redline, Biosyn 5w40. For me it is worth it to pay a bit more for an ester oil with strong anti-wear additives. 
A step down from those ester based oils but a step up from 502 in terms of additives and shear stability might be M1 TDT 5w40, Rotella synthetic 5w40, Amsoil DEO. These are loaded diesel oils that are "mixed fleet" and ok to use in gasoline engines. Some people buy and then return 502 oils to have adequate receipts/documentation.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*

Another quote from Mr. Dyson that is relevant:
reb03, I have customers running BMW5w30, M1 0w40 all with the same effect, the wear control is good if we change the oil at 1000 mile intervals but the deposit formation from REAL volatility issues are slowly damaging the engines. I just worked a 07 335 Biturbo yesterday USING ASTM lab tests on the used oil and M1 0w40 went from VOA flash of 430+F to 280 F in 1150 miles, oil sheared to 12.1 cSt and fuel was at 1.99% by IR. Amsoil has not been tested in this engine yet. Because Amsoil is a traditional based PAO I predict similar results to the M1 0w40 which is still one of few M1 products that can perform reasonably well.


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*

saaber-have you seen any Lubro Moly 5w40 UOA's for the BPY yet?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (bcze1)*

I haven't seen any but the ones I saw for other cars looked very close to the typical 502 oils. I remember I was not very impressed but that is not much info. to go on. There doesn't appear to be anything remarkable that separates it from the other 502 oils but again no 2.0FSI UOAs as of yet. As Terry Dyson was alluding to, it seems that many of these PAO-based oils do equally poorly in these engines. Also, many of these 502 oils appear to be built very similarly. 
Another point that Rl_RS4 has made in the past and may be the whole key to why these oils do poorly, is that the engine testing is done in Europe, where these engines run in lean stratified mode and the oils seem to be o.k. The more I think about it, this is probably the core of the problem. These oils that test o.k. for lean-stratified do not hold up when subjected to fuel dilution as they run in the U.S. Give VW 10-12 years and they may address it ha ha.


_Modified by saaber2 at 3:56 PM 12-2-2009_


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_I definitely would not say imperative. It is not like your car will blow up from using an inadequate oil. It is more long term issues and depends on how well one wants to treat their car. Some people are on lease and could care less about treating their car right, for example. Others like me, maintain their car as if they will keep it forever, even if they won't keep it forever. My experience over the years has been "if you take care of your car it will take care of you". The cost difference of running the highest end oils vs. run-of-the-mill 502 oils in one year is about the cost of a tank of gas or less.
If you are concerned about using a 502 oil and don't want to deal with buying and then returning 502 oil to have adequate receipts, then GC or the highest end Motul that is on the 502 list would be good options IMO. Motul x-lite 0W30 appears to have high ester content, very high anti-wear additives and is 502 approved. I haven't seen any 2.0 FSI uoas on it yet but on other cars it looks to be a loaded oil.
If you want to use non-502 oils you have lots of options such as Motul 300v (I assume it is not on the list), redline, Biosyn 5w40. For me it is worth it to pay a bit more for an ester oil with strong anti-wear additives. 
A step down from those ester based oils but a step up from 502 in terms of additives and shear stability might be M1 TDT 5w40, Rotella synthetic 5w40, Amsoil DEO. These are loaded diesel oils that are "mixed fleet" and ok to use in gasoline engines. Some people buy and then return 502 oils to have adequate receipts/documentation.


i keep the OCI under 5k miles i know M1 was falling apart at 1k. I do try and keep good care of my car will i have it when its at 200,000KM most likely not but i try to maintain my cars. What are you currently using? redline?


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## rickjaguar (Apr 23, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_saaber-have you seen any Lubro Moly 5w40 UOA's for the BPY yet?

i've been running this oil for 2 OCIs now. I'll be on my 3rd in about a week or 2. Maybe i should send a sample but not sure where. That Blackstone place is in the middle of the US.. a loooong way from here.


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## ajz9415 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (rickjaguar)*

Biosyn 5w40 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Have also used M1 TDT 5w40 and have had great success



_Modified by ajz9415 at 4:48 PM 12-2-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

Yea I'm running redline. Previously 5w40 but now experimenting with 5w30/10w40 mix because I think I learned everything I can from the 5w40 runs. Redline has shown the best results so far but I'm constantly looking for something better for this engine. Here is a thread from Bitog on Ontario redline sources. Motul X-lite, Motul 300V, and Biosyn 5W40 are some other ester-based oils.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...74932


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickjaguar* »_
i've been running this oil for 2 OCIs now. I'll be on my 3rd in about a week or 2. Maybe i should send a sample but not sure where. That Blackstone place is in the middle of the US.. a loooong way from here.


request a sample kit and have them send it to you its free and to send back its like 2 bucks US in stamps. plus the 20 or so US bucks they charge


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## rickjaguar (Apr 23, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

ok i ordered a kit... for alla yall!


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_ 
that the engine testing is done in Europe, where these engines run in lean stratified mode and the oils seem to be o.k. 

_Modified by saaber2 at 3:56 PM 12-2-2009_

Bingo...


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*

Saaber, do you have a link to a x-lite conversation over on BITOG? Their search engine leaves much to be desired.
I'm seeing if Barry over at performanceoilstore.com can get his hands on some for me. He already has some 300V in inventory, so I'll give that a shot too. That's what he uses in his personal car (just happens to be a 2.0T powered GTI)


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
Another point that Rl_RS4 has made in the past and may be the whole key to why these oils do poorly, is that the engine testing is done in Europe, where these engines run in lean stratified mode and the oils seem to be o.k. The more I think about it, this is probably the core of the problem. These oils that test o.k. for lean-stratified do not hold up when subjected to fuel dilution as they run in the U.S. Give VW 10-12 years and they may address it ha ha.


Interesting. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Another general FSI question: I know that the 4.2 in the RS4 has serious issues with valve contamination, but what about other NA FSI motors like the 3.2 V6 in the A6 & Q5, or the 3.6 VR6 in the Passat, Touareg, Q7? And do these NA motors have the same issues with fuel dilution, shear, and reduced flashpoint as the 2.0T?


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_
Interesting. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Another general FSI question: I know that the 4.2 in the RS4 has serious issues with valve contamination, but what about other NA FSI motors like the 3.2 V6 in the A6 & Q5, or the 3.6 VR6 in the Passat, Touareg, Q7? And do these NA motors have the same issues with fuel dilution, shear, and reduced flashpoint as the 2.0T? 

I'm sure they have similar issues with valve deposits, but to what extent I am not sure. People who own a car with the 4.2 or 2.0T are more likely to spend time on a forum, therefore their cases of valve deposits are more prevelent. 
Who knows, would the average Q7 owner with the 3.6 even realize that their car was performing worse than new? If they did realize it, they would just mention something to the dealer... Who would then respond by saying there isn't a check engine light on, therefore there can't be a problem...


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
Who would then respond by saying there isn't a check engine light on, therefore there can't be a problem... 


off topic but that drives me sooo insane!







there logic is just....


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

OH yea been there, with the stealer. I know that the car has a problem but can't do anything about it because you don't have a cel.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_Saaber, do you have a link to a x-lite conversation over on BITOG? Their search engine leaves much to be desired.

The only effective way to search that forum IMO is to go to Google and enter: 
site:bobistheoilguy.com "Motul" "x-lite"
in the search box. BTW, this also works for vortex or any other site, just change the site name. and put search words in the quotes.


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