# I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering



## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

I have a '87 GTi that was an 8v but I put a 16v in. 1.8l head and 2l bottom end. Obviously it is running on cis-e. 
Problems:
1.) car takes almost a minute of cranking to start when cold.
2).when it is cold it hardly runs and needs the gas applied
3).It stutters HORRIBLY and will hardly run when the clutch is let out
4). after it has been warmed up it still stutters after 3k RPM
Replace/worked on:
CTS
Thermo time sensor
o2 sensor
Autotech fuel enrichment
air/fuel ratio adjusted
timing set
new dizzy,wires
cold start valve
I am stumped. Thanks for reading this long write up.


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (Rallyfreak202)*

3 questions.
Are you using 8V or 16V OCU and KSCU modules?
Does the cold start valve spary when cranking the engine?
Is the ground cable from the coil bracket to the head in place and in good condition? This is usually a braided cable with insulation over the conductor, larger than the usual brown ground wire, smaller than battery ground wires. It originally attached to one of the rear cam cover studs on the 8V.


_Modified by wclark at 8:26 AM 7-26-2007_


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (wclark)*

To wclark's questions, I would like to add:
Has it ever run right since the engine swap?
What is your warm idle amperage?
Have you checked the flow of the injectors?
Have you inspected the system for vacuum leaks?


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (wclark)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wclark* »_3 questions.
Are you using 8V or 16V OCU and KSCU modules? *16v* 
Does the cold start valve spary when cranking the engine?*Nope* 
Is the ground cable from the coil bracket to the head in place and in good condition? *yes* 
This is usually a braided cable with insulation over the conductor, larger than the usual brown ground wire, smaller than battery ground wires. It originally attached to one of the rear cam cover studs on the 8V. This is not on my car...it was on the 8v

_Modified by wclark at 8:26 AM 7-26-2007_
 


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_To wclark's questions, I would like to add:
Has it ever run right since the engine swap? *Never perfect* 
What is your warm idle amperage? *Not sure, how to I check? * 
Have you checked the flow of the injectors? *I removed them and they all had a nice flow to them so yes.* 
Have you inspected the system for vacuum leaks? *Not in a while* 
 

Thanks guys. Here is another problem. The car gets very warm when sitting in traffic. It has gotten above the bulb to I pull on to a side street and let it cool down. The oil temp was around 215. The fan does come on but still gets warm. Fan switch was replaced and coolant has been flushed. Fairly new waterpump and thermostat. This problem is not big on my list to solve.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (Rallyfreak202)*

I have a write-up for diagnostic and tuning procedures on CIS-E in the FAQ here. Follow that to learn how to check idle amperage. This will tell you a lot.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_I have a write-up for diagnostic and tuning procedures on CIS-E in the FAQ here. Follow that to learn how to check idle amperage. This will tell you a lot.

That write-up tought me a lot. Do you think this could be something simpler? I had my fuel mixture adjusted and it helped but did not fix it. What do you recommend to check for air leaks? Carb cleaner?


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_What do you recommend to check for air leaks? Carb cleaner?

Fingers and eyeballs. Check the crankcase breather stuff and the intake boots. 
CIS problems usually have a simple cause. 
If this problem isn't happening across the board and getting progressively worse with RPM and load, it is probably not an intake leak.
I'm dying to know the idle current.


_Modified by Longitudinal at 9:25 PM 7-29-2007_


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## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (Longitudinal)*

Sounds like your running extremely rich..
turn the screw to lean a quater..
If there is no responce from the fuel distributer, test your O2 and see if its sending a reading to the fuel dis...
Also check that all your boots are sitting properly and clamped...
Check your wires also make sure there is no misfiring...
A good way to check is to start the car when its dark and inspact the wires for misfiring, youll see sparks coming from the wires...
Do you have an exhaust leak?


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_ 
Does the cold start valve spray when cranking the engine?*Nope *


Only 3 possibilities. No fuel pressure, bad injector, no power to the injector. 
Check your fuel pressure and residual pressure. If both are OK, check to see the injector is powered during the time the ignition is in START. If that is OK, have the injector tested, or swap it.
Also. I would remove the Autotech enrichment and restore things to stock until the problems are cured as this does touch several areas we are looking at and a problem with installation or the module itself could confuse or create some of these symptoms.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

Alright. I finally sucked it up and bought the TT idle amperage checker. Also, I believe my cold start injector does not work even after replacing it with a different one. Is it possible that something on that circuit is causing a short? What else is on that circuit. Thanks guys.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

The circuit for the CSV is all on its own, so it has nothing to do with the fuel system and its operation.


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_...I believe my cold start injector does not work even after replacing it with a different one.

You believe? Pull the CS injector from the manifold, put it in a jar or something to catch fuel and hit the starter switch, trying to start the car. No fuel in the jar? If none then put the injector back in place, disconnect the electrical plug to the injector and put a voltmeter (set at 20VDC) on the leads of the plug you removed. Try to start the car again while observing the meter. What do you see?


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*

No fuel coming out. I changed cold start injectors so I assume I am not getting power. I will tell you for sure tomorrow. Thanks guys.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (Rallyfreak202)*

Intake boots are torn underneath and I bet the injector o-rings need to be replaced also! Check all the vaccum lines also.


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## ICIN235 (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (PowerDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PowerDubs* »_Intake boots are torn underneath and I bet the injector o-rings need to be replaced also! Check all the vaccum lines also.

I second that. REMOVE both intake boots and inspect carefully. These are the exact symptoms of a torn boot. If that is the case, readjust your fuel mixture after fixing the tear.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (PowerDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PowerDubs* »_Intake boots are torn underneath and I bet the injector o-rings need to be replaced also! Check all the vaccum lines also.

I checked the intake boots about 3 months ago. I guess I will do the same today. Should I use carb cleaner to check for vacuum leaks?


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: I bet you can not solve this problem. CIS-e 2l 16v stutering (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
I checked the intake boots about 3 months ago. I guess I will do the same today. Should I use carb cleaner to check for vacuum leaks?


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
Quote, originally posted by Rallyfreak202 » 
What do you recommend to check for air leaks? Carb cleaner? 


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_Fingers and eyeballs. Check the crankcase breather stuff and the intake boots. 



_Modified by Longitudinal at 5:20 PM 8-23-2007_


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

Okay. I bought the test harness for the DPR and I used it today. The needle was pegged at 10mA. I assume I am getting false readings because of my vacuum leak.....the brake booster is leaking air. So, after I put that in I will retest. 
But, my cold start valve STILL does not work. It takes a lot of cranking to get my car started when it is cold.


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

If you have no power to the cold start valve then look at the thermo-time switch which powers it.  That is located on the end of the head below the distributor.
The 10ma you are reading (if steady) is typical of a CIS-E that is idling open loop. That can be because the O2 sensor is not feeding anything to the Oxy Control unit and other issues. 10ma thru the DPR isnt wide open by a long shot. It can go well over 100ma. if it needs to such as during START.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wclark* »_If you have no power to the cold start valve then look at the thermo-time switch which powers it. That is located on the end of the head below the distributor.
The 10ma you are reading (if steady) is typical of a CIS-E that is idling open loop. That can be because the O2 sensor is not feeding anything to the Oxy Control unit and other issues. 10ma thru the DPR isnt wide open by a long shot. It can go well over 100ma. if it needs to such as during START.

I replace the thermotime switch a month ago. I also have the O2 sensor in that was in my 8v so I am pretty sure it works. 
http://members.dslextreme.com/....html 
That link provided the guidelines for my tunning. What are other symptoms of a bad O2 sensor?


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

The thermo time switch is fed by the ignition (on) switch. On early CIS cars power went thru a seatbelt interlock but that should not have been on your car. Do you have power to the thermo time switch? I am guessing not. Do you have a Bentley? This is on page 54 of the wiring diagrams.
By the way, the actual wiring has the +12V from the ignition feeding both the CSI and the thermo time switch in parallel. When the thermo time switch goes ON it provides a ground to the other side of the CSI allowing it to turn on. So if you have no power to the CSI you probably have no power to the thermo time switch either.


_Modified by wclark at 8:22 PM 8-27-2007_


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*

Okay, so do I need to test for power to thermo time switch first? Or should I change O2 sensor first? Same deal....very hard to start when cold and stutters horrible for one minute about.


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

The power to the thermo time switch and CSI should be the easiest to test and resolve. If it is a problem with the starter switch, it may also resolve other issues you see or dont yet see.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wclark* »_The power to the thermo time switch and CSI should be the easiest to test and resolve. If it is a problem with the starter switch, it may also resolve other issues you see or dont yet see.

My dad and I tested the CSI, but, we are not sure if all of the water temperature was below 86 degrees so we are going to test again to get a definite answer. But I am 99% sure it is not working. I will also test the thermo time sensor.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

Cold start valve getting no power. Thermo time getting no power. Now what?


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## Fox-N-It (Jul 23, 2003)

I didn't read all the way through but have you tried a new ECU. I've always found CIS-Motronic ECU's to be touchy.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (Fox-N-It)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fox-N-It* »_I didn't read all the way through but have you tried a new ECU. I've always found CIS-Motronic ECU's to be touchy. 

This is CIS-e 16v ECU and ICM. And no I have not tried a different one. Should I try my 8v one? The car has an 8v harness


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (Fox-N-It)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fox-N-It* »_I didn't read all the way through but have you tried a new ECU. I've always found CIS-Motronic ECU's to be touchy. 

As for the cold start valve problems, the ECU has nothing to do with that. The cold start circuit is discrete from the ECU.


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_Cold start valve getting no power. Thermo time getting no power. Now what?

Maybe its time to get a Bentley. You cant troubleshoot electrical problems without the diagrams.
In this case the power for both the CSI and TTS come from the ignition switch.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wclark* »_
Maybe its time to get a Bentley. You cant troubleshoot electrical problems without the diagrams.
In this case the power for both the CSI and TTS come from the ignition switch. 

I broke out the Bentley last night and it looks as if the OXS control unit is on this circuit. Where is this located?


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

Look at page 20 and page 54. The CSI and TTS are powered by circuit 50 at the ignition switch (which looks like START, not ON as I wrote before). I dont see the Oxy CU tie in at all.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wclark* »_Look at page 20 and page 54. The CSI and TTS are powered by circuit 50 at the ignition switch (which looks like START, not ON as I wrote before). I dont see the Oxy CU tie in at all.

Okay, here is another factor. As you know it runs rough when cold. Well I took off the intake elbow to look for rips...nothing significant. But, the connector that is right under the TB elbow was disconnected. I noticed it idles lower,stalls easier when the clutch is pressed in quickly and jerks a little more when cold. Maybe I did something and caused an air leak.


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
Okay, here is another factor. As you know it runs rough when cold. Well I took off the intake elbow to look for rips...nothing significant. But, the connector that is right under the TB elbow was disconnected. I noticed it idles lower,stalls easier when the clutch is pressed in quickly and jerks a little more when cold. Maybe I did something and caused an air leak. 

First thing. Try to focus on fixing one thing at a time. Easier for you and me, not to mention the thread.
By connector do you mean an electrical connector, such as the throttle switches connector? If so, this being undone will prevent the engine from recognizing it is in a throttle shut mode which is required before the ISV will operate. The ISV trys to maintain a reasonable idle accross a range of engine warmup and loads likethe AC and alternator charging a low battery orsupplying power for high current items like headlights. Typically an unplugged ISV or the state of the ISV off idle is shut, resulting in a low idle (usually sets to about 800-900 RPM when theengine iswarm and no loads are running with the throttle bypass screw). If it is stuck open it should try to idle around 1500RPM. The valve is opened and closed rapidly (results in a vibration or buzzing) by the ECU to manage a desired idle speed.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*

Yes, it is the electrical connector under the throttle body. 
_Quote, originally posted by *wclark* »_
First thing. Try to focus on fixing one thing at a time. Easier for you and me, not to mention the thread.
By connector do you mean an electrical connector, such as the throttle switches connector? If so, this being undone will prevent the engine from recognizing it is in a throttle shut mode which is required before the ISV will operate. The ISV trys to maintain a reasonable idle accross a range of engine warmup and loads likethe AC and alternator charging a low battery or supplying power for high current items like headlights. Typically an unplugged ISV or the state of the ISV off idle is shut, resulting in a low idle (usually sets to about 800-900 RPM when theengine is warm and no loads are running with the throttle bypass screw). If it is stuck open it should try to idle around 1500RPM. The valve is opened and closed rapidly (results in a vibration or buzzing) by the ECU to manage a desired idle speed.

My mistake was adjusting the idle stop screw on the throttle body with out this connector plugged in. One problem solved. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Today, because the Oxygen sensor is on the CSI circuit, do you think I should replace it and see if it helps? I have an extra laying around. What would you do?


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_Today, because the Oxygen sensor is on the CSI circuit, do you think I should replace it and see if it helps? I have an extra laying around. What would you do?


The O2 sensor is NOT on the CSI circuit.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wclark* »_
The O2 sensor is NOT on the CSI circuit.

Thanks. I was looking at the Cold Start diagram in the Bentley. My dad and I think it could be the pulsing relay that is in the circuit.
I should also let you know that the fuel pump relay circuit has not worked since I put the 16v in. I tried many tests but I ended up just making a switch.


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## badazzgti88 (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

check and see if both fuel pumps are working. I had a simaler problem and one of the pumps was bad causing low fuel pressure and the injectors weren't opening all the way.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (badazzgti88)*

I replaced my fuel pumps about 10 months ago. I really hope that is not what the deal is.
Today I took the DPR off and have it almost a half of turn. I seemed to help but still does not pull as hard as it should.


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

Does the ECU control the cold start injector with CIS-E, or is it hard wired through the temp sensor, like CIS? From the descriptions that I have read, it appears that it is hard wired from the start circuit and fires if the temp sensor is cold enough to open the circuit. If that is so, which direction does the current go. I saw a reference to the fact that the temp switch opens the circuit to ground, which would mean that there should be 12v to the CSI if the circuit is operating properly.
In any event, would not continuity tests be in order here if there is a CSV that has no power to it?


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
Today I took the DPR off and have it almost a half of turn. I seemed to help but still does not pull as hard as it should. 

By half a turn, are you referring to the 3mm hex screw? Are you setting this with a multimeter measuring the mA through a harness? What readings did you use?


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (PASHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PASHAT* »_
By half a turn, are you referring to the 3mm hex screw? Are you setting this with a multimeter measuring the mA through a harness? What readings did you use?

I did plug the test harness in. I taped it encase you want to see it. It read about .6 mA


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

UPDATE: no more stuttering,jerking or missing. I put the ICM from my 8v in and that problem is gone. I am guessing eather the 16v ICM will not work with the 8v harness or the one I have is bad.


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## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

and it took this long for you to look at the spark it has "ALOT" to do with the way a car runs dont you think? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (hondaproof)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hondaproof* »_and it took this long for you to look at the spark it has "ALOT" to do with the way a car runs dont you think? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I did not go any further into spark than the timing. I made a mistake....sorry.


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## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

just joking its all good. ive done the same thing


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (hondaproof)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hondaproof* »_just joking its all good. ive done the same thing








okay good. Now, I still need to fix the CSI problem before winter comes. Since my thermotime switch is new and that is not getting any power could it be the ignition switch? There are not many things on that circuit....


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## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

on that i think it just a break in the wiring somewhere


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (hondaproof)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hondaproof* »_on that i think it just a break in the wiring somewhere 

I will trace those wires I guess. It's wierd that it worked right before the 16v swap and right after it did not.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

My car is cursed. I bought a new 16v knock box because I tested my car with the old 8v box and figured the current 16v knock box was bad. I installed the new one. No difference. Bummer.
So, now what? Problem with the harness? I do not get it. The car runs better on the 8v box but spark knocks when you push the throttle hard. It starts perfectly with the 8v box in too. Any suggestions?


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## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

do away with it and run msd 6al with fixed curve timing computer.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (hondaproof)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hondaproof* »_do away with it and run msd 6al with fixed curve timing computer.

Okay, I will.....just Paypal me some money.








Guys, could I have a short in my wire harness? This could be the answer for all these small problems....right?


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

Do a pin test on each of the leads to the ECU. No one here can tell you if you have a short. Diagnosis!


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (PASHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PASHAT* »_Do a pin test on each of the leads to the ECU. No one here can tell you if you have a short. Diagnosis!

So take every lead and ground it correct? I did this test to the one fuel pump relay I think.


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
So take every lead and ground it correct? .


EEEK! NO!!!!! Want to fry your ECU? THEN all your problems would be over!
Check your Bentley for HOW to properly check the wiring harness connections to the ECU, to ensure continuity of each wire....
(Ground every lead! Geez. Kids these days....







)


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## wclark (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_My car is cursed. I bought a new 16v knock box because I tested my car with the old 8v box and figured the current 16v knock box was bad. I installed the new one. No difference. Bummer.
So, now what? Problem with the harness? I do not get it. The car runs better on the 8v box but spark knocks when you push the throttle hard. It starts perfectly with the 8v box in too. Any suggestions? 

This is no longer a CIS-E problem as far as I can tell.
That said, the connections between the vehicle and either an 8V or 16V KSCU are identical so if the 8V sort of works, bad wiring is not likely
There are huge difference between the timing maps of the 8V and 16V KSCU including the control/delay at idle. At the least you will have to re-time the engine with the 16V box in place. At the most the "new" KSCU is also bad. I would be surprised if the one you bought is new except to you, but either way at this point the best thing to do is to find someone running a 16V KSCU and try yours in their car to either determine the box is or is not good. If it works there, focus on getting the idle timing close with the 16V box in place.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (wclark)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wclark* »_
This is no longer a CIS-E problem as far as I can tell.
That said, the connections between the vehicle and either an 8V or 16V KSCU are identical so if the 8V sort of works, bad wiring is not likely
There are huge difference between the timing maps of the 8V and 16V KSCU including the control/delay at idle. At the least you will have to re-time the engine with the 16V box in place. At the most the "new" KSCU is also bad. I would be surprised if the one you bought is new except to you, but either way at this point the best thing to do is to find someone running a 16V KSCU and try yours in their car to either determine the box is or is not good. If it works there, focus on getting the idle timing close with the 16V box in place.

Okay, so I will buy a brand new 16v knock box and try that. Thanks for the help.


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

I put a new knock box and ICM in still same issues. When the 16v icm was in it would click when I turned the car to the on position. Next I need to start testing the harness. I am thinking about selling this car and driving the 92 GTi.


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

Quit buying parts and putting them in without finishing diagnosis....unless you have boatloads of cash. Swapping with a good one was meant to test whether you needed to buy one.
Go back to basics. Check every component according to your Bentley, and check the harness. Look for all vacuum leaks. Get in there and check carefully. See my sig for basic common problems.


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## hondaproof (Jun 20, 2007)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*

where is abingdon im in charlottesville i could buy it or fix it if i could see and feel what its doin


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## Rallyfreak202 (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: (hondaproof)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hondaproof* »_where is abingdon im in charlottesville i could buy it or fix it if i could see and feel what its doin 

haha, I am not ready to sell yet. I am going to have a VW mechanic look at it because I am too burned out from all of the other work I have been doing to it. I will let you know if I sell it. It also needs new lifters and I might put a new bottom end in because the piston rings are going out. I know I could rebuild it but I would rather put a newer bottom end in. It is a money bucket. 
Oh, Charlottesville is about 3.5 hours from me. You are more than welcome to come here and help me out with it...


_Modified by Rallyfreak202 at 6:08 PM 9-27-2007_


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (Rallyfreak202)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rallyfreak202* »_
haha, I am not ready to sell *yet. * It is a money bucket. 


VWs!


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