# Audiobahn Install Pics



## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

After a few headaches I finally have my system in and working!








Here's what I have:
Pioneer 7300DVD Headunit w/7" LCD screen
4 Boston Acoustics mids/tweets
1 Audiobahn A435HC amp for mids/highs
2 Audiobahn A1300HCX amps for the subs
2 Audiobahn AW1200X 700watt 12" Subs
2 Audiobahn 1 Farad caps
Custom fiberglass sub enclosure
Streetwires wiring and connectors used throughout.
And here's a few pics:

















It's a great system and hits hard, yet has tight bass. The only thing I noticed, is that it seems to drain the battery even when the car is running. I realize that the amps do draw quite a bit of power, but I only use the stereo when the car is running. I'm wondering if I need to upgrade the alternator since the stock 70amp alternator is probably not sufficient.
Has anyone run into this problem before? Any suggestions?


_Modified by Dr.Evil at 1:00 PM 12-3-2004_


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## glenn4881 (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

damn !!!! looks good


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## Speedlaw (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

Damn- you have 2 caps and still need a bigger alternator? I need to feel your system...








Kudos to you- I Am Drooling.


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## scottasm12 (Aug 30, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Speedlaw)*

The alt is 90 amps...Having caps will not make you need a new alt any less, but will even put more strain on your electrical system. Good luck in finding someone to build you a H/O alternator because I cant find someone that can do one. I know you can get a OEM one thats 120 amps. But if anyone who has got an alt for a MK4 jetta with a 1.8 t engine tell me where, how and how much.


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## Speedlaw (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (scottasm12)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Having caps will not make you need a new alt any less, but will even put more strain on your electrical system. [HR][/HR]​I always thought that caps took strain off the battery. Just learned something new. Isn't a TDI alternator an option? Or is that just as powerful?


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## BoostMiser (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Speedlaw)*

Wowww







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Joe_R)*

I have said this before to others if you are looking for H/O alternators look up Dominick Iraggi in this forum: http://www.termpro.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=22 he goes by trafficjamz. You'll have to register up to drop any info on the web.
Or e-mail him at [email protected] I can't seem to find his number, I have it on my home computer.
Oh he may need some pics or what not as he hasn't really had much demand for VW alts.
[Edit] Dominicks # (615) 287-7991 [Edit]


[Modified by Non_Affiliated, 11:14 PM 9-24-2002]


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## Fireproof (Aug 4, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

HOLY COW!!!















That is just amazing! I have two 350w 10 inchers and it can hurt my ears and give me a headache. I can't imagine what that system must sound like.
Very nice custom enclosure, BTW. Did you do the work yourself??


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## fitzymj (Jun 8, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Fireproof)*


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## audiophile (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (fitzymj)*

That must THUMP. Looks nice too. Congrats! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 83 Rabbit GTI (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (scottasm12)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The alt is 90 amps...Having caps will not make you need a new alt any less, but will even put more strain on your electrical system. Good luck in finding someone to build you a H/O alternator because I cant find someone that can do one. I know you can get a OEM one thats 120 amps. But if anyone who has got an alt for a MK4 jetta with a 1.8 t engine tell me where, how and how much.[HR][/HR]​We get 120 amp alternators in Canada. At least that's what the spec sheet says. Come to think of it, I think all NA cars are 120 amp.


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (83 Rabbit GTI)*

My '91 corrado is a 90A, most of the VR6 have a 120A and the four bangers have a 90A, and I think the TDI's have a 70A or 90A.


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## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Fireproof)*

I had a local shop here fabricate the box and the amp rack, and a friend of mine did the paintwork. I planned out the system, obtained the components, and did the final install/setup/wiring.
The box was probably the most time consuming, as he started out with a mesh shell and had to glass/epoxy/sand the whole thing. Took about a week just for that. The coolest idea we had was mounting the amps in the spare tire well, that turned out great I think.
Here's a few early install pics:


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## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (83 Rabbit GTI)*

Well according to http://www.vw.com/jetta/tech.htm it says 70amp alt. But then again I don't see my specific model (1.8T GLS) listed. Maybe it has a higher rating. I'll check my Bentley manual and see if it says anything about it.


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## Fireproof (Aug 4, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

Very nice again! By the way, did you use sound deadening on any body panels or the trunk lid? If not, does it vibrate like crazy?


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## 83 Rabbit GTI (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Non_Affiliated)*

quote:[HR][/HR]My '91 corrado is a 90A, most of the VR6 have a 120A and the four bangers have a 90A, and I think the TDI's have a 70A or 90A.[HR][/HR]​The 2002 tech spec sheets from VW shows the TDI and 2.0L engines with 70 amp alternators while all the 1.8T's and VR6's have 120 amp alternators.


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## speaker (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

You said the battery is draining during use. Do you mean as the audio system is running while your car is running you lose the complete charge on the battery? What is the exact symptom of the problem you are experiencing? 
speaker


[Modified by speaker, 11:59 AM 9-25-2002]


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## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (speaker)*

I believe what is happening is that the alternator isn't sufficient enough to run the stereo and keep the battery charged. Because after I run the system for a while and then turn the car off, there is barely enough juice left in the battery to start the car - sometimes it won't start until I charge the battery up.


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

You shouldn't be draining your battery with that kind of load, even with a 70A alternator (although I think you have at least a 90A). There might be something else wrong.
My 2.0 GTI came with a 120A alt, and I loaded it down much more than that with no ill effects.
EDIT: The Jetta GLS 1.8T has a 120A alternator. You certainly do NOT need to upgrade. Something else is wrong.


[Modified by vwgtirob, 2:15 PM 9-25-2002]


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

Are you sure your amps are turning off with your HU and not staying on all the time?


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## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

The amps and HU turn off as soon as the key is pulled from the ignition. The only thing that stays on are the caps. Maybe they are draining the battery? I have my power wire running from the battery to a distribution block which then goes to the caps and the 3 amps. Everything is grounded to the frame. I have checked for shorts in the wiring and there is none.


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## speaker (Aug 12, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

So, if you drive around for days without using the audio, does the car start without problem? If so, my belief is that there is something wrong with the charging system when it is under extreme load. Perhaps the alternator is toast?
speaker


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (speaker)*

Well considering worst case scinario. You have 2 A1300HCQ's 1200Wx1 @ 1 Ohm so 2400W. Then the A435HC at 280x2 @ 1 Ohms mono. thats a total of roughly 2960 Watts, ok 3KW. So I would suspect that your charging system may have an issue running this if you blast the system alot. Most stock systems (120A alt) will do ok with about 1200W but continous hammer will eat a battery and/or an alt in a rather short amount of time.
If that is what you are running at for power then I would suggest at least a 180A ALt minimum, and at least 2 batteries. Not to mention all the elctrical up-grading possible under the hood for the charging system.


[Modified by Non_Affiliated, 3:20 PM 9-25-2002]


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## Fireproof (Aug 4, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

Out of curiosity, please explain to me why I see some subs mounted rear-facing like yours are. I'm assuming only certain subs are designed to be mounted that way, but what is the advantage?


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## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Fireproof)*

Actually any subs can be faced inward like that, you just have to wire them reverse phase. I did that so you can see the chrome baskets and large magnets. They match the amps and look cool. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Non_Affiliated)*

But it will only draw that much playing test tones just below clipping. That will absolutely kill the speakers.
Check to see what the ignition-off current draw is. This is easy; just disconnect one battery terminal, and put a multimeter connected to measure amps in between. It should be under 100mA (0.1A). If it's near there or higher, then you may have a problem.


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## Fireproof (Aug 4, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

Oh, okay. well the absolutely rock! Looks super sweet. After a few months of saving money and verifying that I really DON'T use my trunk, I want to remove my spare and do a similar install so my setup looks more built-in. I can't stop looking at your install!
Did you also sound deaden the trunk area? How is the vibration with your setup? Did you do anything to the rear deck shelf to let more bass into the cabin?


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

[Ya know Idon't think your an idiot vwgtirob, but come o. Your gonna sit there andtell me that he won't kill a battery or alt pretty quickly if he hammers on the system? 
If you don't, weel lets put it into perspective. Your a smart guy, I stated the amplifiers output power. You realize what type of power (Voltage * current) we are talking to run the amps and every thing else in the car. 
These are class A/B High current amps, so take the effiecncy into account your taking alot of current demand even running at half power. 
Max out put of 3Kw and say 70% efficiency you'd need just under 4000Watts of input power. So say 4000W / 13.8V = 290A. running at half power your looking at a draw of roughly 90A to 130A on peak transients at half power. Do you think a stock electrical system will keep up well?


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## timmybgood (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Non_Affiliated)*

whe non_affiliated speaks....my head hurts from too much knowledge
the setup looks sweet bro!! i'd love to see it in person, i wish i had that kinda cheddah


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (timmybgood)*

quote:[HR][/HR]whe non_affiliated speaks....my head hurts from too much knowledge
the setup looks sweet bro!! i'd love to see it in person, i wish i had that kinda cheddah[HR][/HR]​He he.....I sometimes make my head hurt. The only reason I point out those things is cause I'd hate to see anyone lay down any amount of duckets for stereo stuff and then start eating up components in the charging and electrcal system.


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Non_Affiliated)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Max out put of 3Kw and say 70% efficiency you'd need just under 4000Watts of input power. So say 4000W / 13.8V = 290A. running at half power your looking at a draw of roughly 90A to 130A on peak transients at half power. Do you think a stock electrical system will keep up well?[HR][/HR]​Yes. I've got three Soundstream Rubicon 604's, a 702 and two 1002's. They're all high-current amps, and not the most efficient things around. (That's rated 4,500W) I've got a completely stock electrical system.








I'll introduce the concept of crest factor. It's the ratio of peak voltage to RMS voltage.
A square wave has a crest factor of 0dB; its peak voltage is the same as its RMS voltage.
A sine wave has a crest factor of 3dB; its peak voltage is 1.414 times its RMS voltage.
A "bass" CD has a crest factor of 8-10dB.
Heavily compressed rock and pop has a crest factor around 10dB.
Jazz, light pop, and spoken word are around 12dB.
Symphonic classical, opera, and audiophile recordings are generally 12-18dB.
What does this mean? If you're not clipping your amps, that means your "bass CD" is normally playing 8-10dB under the clipping level, at full volume.
That's 1/10th power, or 300W for a 3kW system, on average.
And if your power draw happens to peak much above the roughly 1600W available from the alternator alone, the battery will supply it, and the alternator will recharge the battery during the quiet passages.
The thing is, how hard is he really playing it, and for how long?


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

On top of that, if those amplifiers were playing hard enough to drain the battery with the car running, they'd get REALLY hot, fans or not.
You'd definately notice.


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

I'll put it this way:
Make absolutely sure you know what's wrong before fixing anything.
It may be your stereo, but it probably isn't.
Your alternator may be defective, or there may be some hidden current draw somewhere eating away at your battery.
I'd start by starting the car, and monitor the system voltage at the battery with the stereo on/off, and with various accessories on/off.
Then I'd test the ignition-off current drawn from the battery to see if it's getting drained that way.
You need to figure out what the problem is before you start fixing things!


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## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

I did notice that the 2 caps that were installed stayed on even when the car was shut off. The amps would shut off, as well as the headunit, but the caps remained on, (they have little voltmeters on top of them.) So is it possible that they were draining the battery while the car was off? Do they constantly try to recharge themselves?


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## mrdejected (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

you should have a little screw on the caps where you can connect the turn-on wire so that they shut off with everything else.......


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

The caps are always connected to the car's electrical system. The meters on top, however, should turn off with the amps or ignition to prevent them from draining the battery.
I don't know how much of a load they present, but they still should turn off...


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## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

http://www.audiobahninc.com/products/detail.asp?productsID=184
I have 2 of those, and I don't see any spot for a remote turn on wire. They are wired in right before the amps on a fused circuit that comes straight from the battery. So i'm thinking that they are probably what is draining the battery while the car is off. And my battery probably won't hold a charge now because it has been discharged too many times. I was thinking of switching it out with one of those optimum deep cycle batteries. But now how would I wire those caps in so that they don't discharge the batt? A switch of some kind?


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

To save time and bandwidth hit up this site it sould give you a good idea on ways to go about checking your battery.
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq.htm


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

Well, those caps say that the meter is "auto On/Off" but it apparently isn't working like that. *shrug*


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well, those caps say that the meter is "auto On/Off" but it apparently isn't working like that. *shrug*[HR][/HR]​I saw that too, but kinda kept that thought tomyself. I wonder what triggers the Meters to come on or off? Fluctuation in the voltage? A current sensing circuit?


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Non_Affiliated)*

Can't be a current sensing circuit; the cap is connected in parallel to the amp. So it must be a voltage sensing circuit (sense when the alternator isn't on and it drops to battery voltage, so turn off the meter...), but I don't see that as being very accurate.
Drift in a voltage divider used for sensing could cause that not to turn off properly. *shrug*
I never liked those meter-caps anyway.


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Can't be a current sensing circuit; the cap is connected in parallel to the amp. So it must be a voltage sensing circuit (sense when the alternator isn't on and it drops to battery voltage, so turn off the meter...), but I don't see that as being very accurate.
Drift in a voltage divider used for sensing could cause that not to turn off properly. *shrug*
I never liked those meter-caps anyway.[HR][/HR]​ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Hey at least we can agree on that, if I was to have a voltmeter I would have it stand alone or remote.








Honestly though I would unistall the cap and get it on a power supply with an adjustable, and see what the turn-on threshold is for the cap. that and I would see if a steady value for several munites would turn it off, or if it has a fixed value set point for turn on. In a nut shell pretty much what Rob said.


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## wyseguy (Oct 14, 1999)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

My TDI has a 120 Amp alternator... Its a 2000, build date june 1999


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## TheFritz11 (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Speedlaw)*

Man that looks sweeet


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## Dr.Evil (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Non_Affiliated)*

Well, I had the charging system checked and the alternator is fine. So I replaced the stock battery with one of those optima exide batteries. 1000 cranking amps, maintinence free, and you can deep cycle them. So far, no problems. Right now I have the caps disconnected until I figure out how to get them to turn off. So I believe what happened was that the caps were continuously on, which drained the battery down enough times that it wouldn't hold a charge. So now that I have a fresh battery in there, I don't have any problems. I am going to email tech support at Audiobahn and see what they say about the caps.


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## flow vdub (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (Dr.Evil)*

can you say http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif nice


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## XVWJettaX (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (flow vdub)*

u need to get a bigger battery or another battery. When you get one make sure its a deep cycle b/ a reglar battery might last a month with the load your putting on it... Caps dont help that much man .. ALso you could try getting a xstatic batcap those do the trick THere like equal to 100 farads plus they make bigger ones but there small and only weigh about 5 pounds


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (XVWJettaX)*

quote:[HR][/HR]u need to get a bigger battery or another battery. When you get one make sure its a deep cycle b/ a reglar battery might last a month with the load your putting on it... Caps dont help that much man .. ALso you could try getting a xstatic batcap those do the trick THere like equal to 100 farads plus they make bigger ones but there small and only weigh about 5 pounds [HR][/HR]​Bigger/extra batteries will INCREASE the load on the alternator when the car is running. The batcaps won't help much either.
Fix the problem, not the symptoms.


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## Non_Affiliated (Feb 12, 2002)

*Re: Audiobahn Install Pics (vwgtirob)*

"....Car batteries are especially designed for high initial cranking amps (usually 200 to 400 amps for five to 15 seconds) to start a car and for shallow (10% or less) discharges. They are not designed for deep cycle discharges. Deep cycle (and marine) batteries are designed for prolonged discharges at lower current and not for high current discharges. The plates in a car battery are more porous and thinner than in deep cycle batteries and use sponges or expanded metal grids instead of solid lead. A deep cycle battery will typically outlast two to ten car batteries when used in deep cycle applications. In warm weather, starting an engine will typically consume less that 5% of a car battery's capacity. In contrast, deep cycle (or marine) batteries are used for applications that will consume between 20 and 80% of the battery's capacity.
A “dual” or starting marine battery is a compromise between a car and a deep cycle battery that is specially designed for marine applications. A deep cycle or “dual marine” battery will work as a starting battery if it can produce enough current to start the engine, but not as well as a car battery. For saltwater applications, AGM or gel cell batteries are highly recommended to prevent chorine gas.
For RVs, a car battery is normally used to start the engine and a deep cycle battery is used to power the RV accessories. The batteries are connected to a diode isolator. When the RV's charging system is running, both batteries are automatically recharged. An excellent and easy to understand free booklet on multi-battery applications, “Introduction to Batteries and Charging Systems”, can be downloaded from http://www.surepower.com/ebrochures.html or obtained by calling (800) 845-6269 or (503) 692-5360.
The two most common types of deep cycle batteries are flooded (also known as wet or liquid electrolyte) cell and valve regulated (VR). These types are divided into Marine and RV batteries. There are 50% depth-of-discharge limits and sponge lead plates batteries, and there are the more expensive Deep Cycle (traction and stationary) batteries with 80% depth-of-discharge limits, solid lead plates, and longer lives......" - _Bill Darden
_ From Deep Cycle Battery FAQ 4.0


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