# S3 test drive + decision vs S4



## Maitre Absolut (Aug 5, 2009)

Went to the dealer today to discuss options as my car might be sold friday.

To my surprise they had an S3 available for test drives. Fully loaded Sepang. I didnt take a pic but the seats were black with white inserts and stitching, wasnt expecting two tone.





My expectations were low considering i have the 2.0T in the Q5 and really didnt think it can be so heavily transformed. Honestly I was very impressed. I don't know how it makes the sound it does, but its as nice or nicer than the 3.0T in the S4. 

Doesnt feel as quick as an S4 though, so maybe that low 0-60 is only due to some perfect launch control mode but its plenty fast for me. 

Slight lag when flooring and when downshifting though. My 3.2VR6 is more responsive, but i can live with that.

Even though seats were nicer than i expected i would still wait for Super Sports, which means i would only have the car in feb-march.

Dealer wants to sell me a 2014 S4 they have. It has all the options i want and they are _heavily_ discounting it. On the flip side they are not budging on the S3's as they believe they will sell all their allocations at MSRP. So both are offered at approx the same price and i dont know which i would take if my car is gone friday.

Im leaning S3 but dont like paying full price


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

Simple debate:

S3: Faster (post-mods), more fuel efficient, newer technology.
S4: Real AWD, more cylinders, more luxurious.

It would take more effort to get the S4 faster whereas a simple intake, exhaust and tune will make the S3 a veritable rocket. The S4 will always have a better chassis and suspension underneath it though because it's relying on real AWD rather than the Haldex system.

I'd either get the S3 or wait for the next gen S4, which will be 200 lbs heavier (or so they claim).


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## gloom (Dec 28, 2004)

jsausley said:


> I'd either get the S3 or wait for the next gen S4, which will be 200 lbs heavier (or so they claim).


Have to concur with jsausley. Thanks for sharing Maitre Absolut, it's the first Canadian S3 sighting I have seen reported here.


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

I definetly fell in love with S3 upon first drive. Your comment on the exhaust, couldn't agree more, sounds awesome!


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## Maitre Absolut (Aug 5, 2009)

jsausley said:


> Simple debate:
> 
> S3: Faster (post-mods), more fuel efficient, newer technology.
> S4: Real AWD, more cylinders, more luxurious.
> ...


both are fast enough and i wont be modding for power

haldex vs torsen. i have both and the newer genIV in my A3 is very good, dont see much difference.

Its the sports diff that will make the S4 more "rwd sports car" like, which isnt that much of a plus for me as i will have 2 baby seats in the car.

No time to wait 2 years for next generation S4, and i assumed you meant lighter which yes is a good thing.

Yes interior in the S4 is a step up. This one has black/brown with carbon. S3 interior materials were inferior to my A3 but with the super sport seats i believe there is added leather.

I would get the S3 in a heart beat if i had the same deal as the S4, they are just making it real difficult with this deal they are offering lol.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

My only hesitation would be the difference in fuel economy. The 3.0T is a beast, and with acquisition price on equal footing, I could be moved to look past the additional bloat and age of the S4.

The S4 and my Cayman are probably pretty equal in real-world economy. I won't be able to take the Cayman's fuel economy long-term, but it won't be my long-term daily driver, either. I'll either keep it as a third car, or move it in favor of something more "jack of all trades," like an S3 or S4 type car. If it's capable of hauling a family, sub-20MPG isn't going to cut it. Where I am right now, though, I'll take the lulz-inducing dynamics of the Cayman in exchange for the fuel economy hit.

... but I already know I'll hit my limit on that at some point. Frankly, I'd have never been able to come to terms with the idea of an SQ5 as a long-term road car for us. I'm glad the Cayman came along and rendered that rationalization moot. :laugh:


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## Maitre Absolut (Aug 5, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> My only hesitation would be the difference in fuel economy. The 3.0T is a beast, and with acquisition price on equal footing, I could be moved to look past the additional bloat and age of the S4.


I dont do much mileage, less than 10k per year. I use it for work so its expensed anyway. The balance is done on the Q5. 

I get 15-16mpg on my A3 so im sure both will be an improvement lol


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> The 3.0T is a beast, and with acquisition price on equal footing, I could be moved to look past the additional bloat and age of the S4.


3.0T? 

The S3 is actually faster than the S4.  

Sad.


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

jsausley said:


> 3.0T?
> 
> The S3 is actually faster than the S4.
> 
> Sad.


I'm not upset with that little fact.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

JGreen76 said:


> I'm not upset with that little fact.


As someone who wants to buy an S5, I am.

That's why I'm probably waiting for the S5 to get its diet next year, too.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

jsausley said:


> 3.0T?
> 
> The S3 is actually faster than the S4.
> 
> Sad.


Meh. I don't really see an issue with it. At least Audi isn't crippling the S3 solely to appease the dinosaur of an S4/S5. 

What will be an issue is if the B9 isn't faster than the S3. Of course, there's also the issue (yes, I really see it as an issue) that we're pushing sub-4s to 60 in easily attainable street cars. The moron brigade will force the government to ruin it for everyone at some point.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

jsausley said:


> As someone who wants to buy an S5, I am.
> 
> That's why I'm probably waiting for the S5 to get its diet next year, too.


I understand. I'm a happy S3 owner, bit always admired the S5.


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Meh. I don't really see an issue with it. At least Audi isn't crippling the S3 solely to appease the dinosaur of an S4/S5.
> 
> What will be an issue is if the B9 isn't faster than the S3. Of course, there's also the issue (yes, I really see it as an issue) that we're pushing sub-4s to 60 in easily attainable street cars. The moron brigade will force the government to ruin it for everyone at some point.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Any word on what engine options are going in the B9?


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

JGreen76 said:


> Any word on what engine options are going in the B9?


I hear twin turbo v6. Haven't heard #s yet. If its as tunable as the 2.0t and 2.5t though....


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## Maitre Absolut (Aug 5, 2009)

jsausley said:


> 3.0T?
> 
> The S3 is actually faster than the S4.
> 
> Sad.


I doubt it's faster in any situation other than the 0-60 which is probably due to some upgrade launch control. The s4 feels faster from a roll.


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## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

Maitre Absolut said:


> The s4 feels faster from a roll.


Im sure that will keep the S4 owners warm at night after all these S3s start trouncing them at the lights.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Xanlith said:


> Im sure that will keep the S4 owners warm at night after all these S3s start trouncing them at the lights.


Correct me if I'm wrong (really), but we haven't seen an instrumented test of a US spec car yet. Even the numbers on the euro spec car are pretty much dead even with the S4.

I'm quite warm and snug at night with my S4, no worries about the cute little 4 banger at a light.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yeah, I doubt most S4 owners give a crap about the S3 in that sense. Sadly, the S3 will be easily attainable by the stancebro flat-brimmer crowd, and I suspect your average S4 buyer is a bit, ahem... _above_ that crowd. In short order, S3s will be moving in the upper mid 30s in base trim. It won't be as brodouche as the GTI, but I expect that we'll see some of it with the S3, anyhow.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Dan Halen said:


> Yeah, I doubt most S4 owners give a crap about the S3 in that sense. Sadly, the S3 will be easily attainable by the stancebro flat-brimmer crowd, and I suspect your average S4 buyer is a bit, ahem... _above_ that crowd. In short order, S3s will be moving in the upper mid 30s in base trim. It won't be as brodouche as the GTI, but I expect that we'll see some of it with the S3, anyhow.


Much of what you say here is true. For the record, I don't consider myself above much other than being a douche. I find the preoccupation of some S3 owners (prospective or otherwise) being faster than it's big brother silly, especially since there aren't any numbers for a NA spec car yet. 

You know I wanted the S3 but in the end I find the S4 more to my liking than the S3. Different strokes, different folks.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Motown_Dub said:


> Much of what you say here is true. For the record, I don't consider myself above much other than being a douche. I find the preoccupation of some S3 owners (prospective or otherwise) being faster than it's big brother silly, especially since there aren't any numbers for a NA spec car yet.
> 
> You know I wanted the S3 but in the end I find the S4 more to my liking than the S3. Different strokes, different folks.


I don't. If people want Audi levels of quality and speed, it's a cheaper alternative. I don't care either way, but I see why it's a selling point for some. We're enthusiasts, seeing that we're on these forums. And it shouldn't be any secret that a lot of enthusiasts like hp and 0-60 times. I see it as no different than comparing muscle cars. It's not a stretch at all.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

jrwamp said:


> I don't. If people want Audi levels of quality and speed, it's a cheaper alternative. I don't care either way, but I see why it's a selling point for some. We're enthusiasts, seeing that we're on these forums. And it shouldn't be any secret that a lot of enthusiasts like hp and 0-60 times. I see it as no different than comparing muscle cars. It's not a stretch at all.


Not exactly sure of what you mean by "Audi levels of quality and speed". It certainly is less expensive, but aside from prospective 0-60 and quarter mile times, the two cars have different personalities and the horse I keep beating is we don't know if the US spec car is faster or not.

Yes we are enthusiasts and yes that's why we talk about these things, hopefully as enthusiasts we can talk about more than magazine racing numbers. There are things like power delivery characteristics, Haldex versus Quattro, throttle response, weight, interior space, quality of materials etc. I never meant to suggest that comparing the cars was somehow off-limits, just silly to make performance comparisons based on a car that we don't have.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Motown_Dub said:


> Not exactly sure of what you mean by "Audi levels of quality and speed". It certainly is less expensive, but aside from prospective 0-60 and quarter mile times, the two cars have different personalities and the horse I keep beating is we don't know if the US spec car is faster or not.
> 
> Yes we are enthusiasts and yes that's why we talk about these things, hopefully as enthusiasts we can talk about more than magazine racing numbers. There are things like power delivery characteristics, Haldex versus Quattro, throttle response, weight, interior space, quality of materials etc. I never meant to suggest that comparing the cars was somehow off-limits, just silly to make performance comparisons based on a car that we don't have.


I just think you're splitting hairs. I'm just saying I don't think it's out of bounds for people to be comparing the two cars based on speed. Like Dan said, I doubt it's much of a difference between euro and us spec. In Europe the S3 was quicker, so worst case they're equal in our market. 

Focusing on your "S3 owners preoccupation with being faster than it's big brother is silly" comment. 

I know there are a lot of differences, however they're close enough to be cross shopped. That's the only point I'm trying to make. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

jrwamp said:


> I just think you're splitting hairs. I'm just saying I don't think it's out of bounds for people to be comparing the two cars based on speed. Like Dan said, I doubt it's much of a difference between euro and us spec. In Europe the S3 was quicker, so worst case they're equal in our market.
> 
> Focusing on your "S3 owners preoccupation with being faster than it's big brother is silly" comment.
> 
> ...


Not splitting hairs, just a different opinion. You think they're close enough to be cross shopped and I don't. 

Both cars have their strengths, and if your focus is an Audi levels of quality and speed for the lowest price, then it wins hands down.

Let's agree to disagree and you enjoy the S3 while I enjoy my S4.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Motown_Dub said:


> Not splitting hairs, just a different opinion. You think they're close enough to be cross shopped and I don't.
> 
> Both cars have their strengths, and if your focus is an Audi levels of quality and speed for the lowest price, then it wins hands down.
> 
> Let's agree to disagree and you enjoy the S3 while I enjoy my S4.


Fair enough, but I'll leave it at pointing out that the title of the thread is even referring to cross shopping the two. :laugh:


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## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

Hah wow did my idle comment touch all that off? My days of punching it from the lights are behind me, other things are more important to me, I was just making a snide remark for the sake of making a snide remark. 

We should be so lucky to own either car. #firstworldproblems right?


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

Motown_Dub said:


> Not splitting hairs, just a different opinion. You think they're close enough to be cross shopped and I don't.
> 
> Both cars have their strengths, and if your focus is an Audi levels of quality and speed for the lowest price, then it wins hands down.
> 
> Let's agree to disagree and you enjoy the S3 while I enjoy my S4.


I don't think it's about price, just interest. I didn't buy my S3 because of price, I bought it because of size and performance output. I love the Audi brand, or I would have considered a M235. 

Different strokes for different folks for sure, but I don't think the price point matters nearly as much as it's being made out.

Quite frankly, I think my S3 will handle better and respond better due to weight difference and the newer MQB platform.

Maybe the B9's will outperform, and I think it would be great if they do. Always enjoy seeing this brand move forward. I really don't like BMW, or Benz.

I prefer to enjoy my 3.0T in my SUV. :wave:


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

JGreen76 said:


> I don't think it's about price, just interest. I didn't buy my S3 because of price, I bought it because of size and performance output. I love the Audi brand, or I would have considered a M235.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks for sure, but I don't think the price point matters nearly as much as it's being made out.
> 
> ...


I wasn't making the point on price jrwamp mentioned the lower price.

Usually a smaller wheelbase and lighter platform will handle better. What's the weight on the S3? The S4 is around 3800. Mine has the sports differential, while it doesn't make it any lighter, it is fun in corners. 

The 3.0T is fun no matter what car/SUV it's in. :thumbup:


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Xanlith said:


> Hah wow did my idle comment touch all that off? My days of punching it from the lights are behind me, other things are more important to me, I was just making a snide remark for the sake of making a snide remark.
> 
> We should be so lucky to own either car. #firstworldproblems right?


Very true.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

jrwamp said:


> Fair enough, but I'll leave it at pointing out that the title of the thread is even referring to cross shopping the two. :laugh:
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which I don't agree with either.


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

Motown_Dub said:


> I wasn't making the point on price jrwamp mentioned the lower price.
> 
> Usually a smaller wheelbase and lighter platform will handle better. What's the weight on the S3? The S4 is around 3800. Mine has the sports differential, while it doesn't make it any lighter, it is fun in corners.
> 
> The 3.0T is fun no matter what car/SUV it's in. :thumbup:


I understand, and must add that the sports dif in the S4 is an awesome piece of mechanical technology. At the end of the day , it just boils down to personal preference……… It's not like we're Audi and BMW guys yelling across the table. :beer::beer::beer::beer:


HELL, I was initially looking for a JEtta R to be produced when I stumbled across the S3 rendering about 1.5 yrs ago….Now today I have exactly what I was shopping for but on an Audi platform. I'm stoked about the car, even if everyone else thought it was junk.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

JGreen76 said:


> I understand, and must add that the sports dif in the S4 is an awesome piece of mechanical technology. At the end of the day , it just boils down to personal preference……… It's not like we're Audi and BMW guys yelling across the table. :beer::beer::beer::beer:
> 
> 
> HELL, I was initially looking for a JEtta R to be produced when I stumbled across the S3 rendering about 1.5 yrs ago….Now today I have exactly what I was shopping for but on an Audi platform. I'm stoked about the car, even if everyone else thought it was junk.


You're right we're on the same team here. I like the S3 and think its a very cool car and would never crap on someone else's car purchase. Like you said it's a preference thing, the S4 suits me a little better than the S3 would have. 

Enjoy your car! :beer:


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## cary8 (Mar 9, 2014)

Xanlith said:


> Hah wow did my idle comment touch all that off? My days of punching it from the lights are behind me, other things are more important to me, I was just making a snide remark for the sake of making a snide remark.
> 
> We should be so lucky to own either car. #firstworldproblems right?


I'm right there with ya on this. I drive even slower in my S4 during my commute because I love rockin out in that B&O 14 speaker system. I don't really care who's passing me up because I'm totally enjoying the interior hahaha


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

Motown_Dub said:


> You're right we're on the same team here. I like the S3 and think its a very cool car and would never crap on someone else's car purchase. Like you said it's a preference thing, the S4 suits me a little better than the S3 would have.
> 
> Enjoy your car! :beer:


Cheers :beer:, you as well!


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

Maitre Absolut said:


> I doubt it's faster in any situation other than the 0-60 which is probably due to some upgrade launch control. The s4 feels faster from a roll.


S3 is faster in the 1/4, actually.

As for the B9, if I were to take a guess I believe the next change we'll see in the S4/S5 is simply moving to the MLB Evo chassis which will drop 200-300 lbs. It will retain the 3.0 supercharged V6.

For the next full model, I expect a 4-pot in the S4 and S5, longitudinally mounted, based on the S3/Golf R engine (we know it is capable of 400 HP from the Golf R400). I suspect it will be rated at around 350 HP for a more realistic total of about 380 HP, detuned slightly from the R400.

At the same time as the S4/S5 getting the 4-cylinder, I could see the RS5 getting a new tweaked 3.0TT V6 that will also find its way into the RS4 in Europe, the next base R8 and potentially the A7 and A9 (if it ever comes out) as well.

All of that is speculation, but given the options VWAG has it's the way I see them going. Rumors we've already heard are that the RS5 will have a V6 twin turbo, we've already heard that the S4/S5 will be 4-cylinder eventually and that the next generations will be lighter. The rest, from there, is speculation.


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

jsausley said:


> S3 is faster in the 1/4, actually.
> 
> As for the B9, if I were to take a guess I believe the next change we'll see in the S4/S5 is simply moving to the MLB Evo chassis which will drop 200-300 lbs. It will retain the 3.0 supercharged V6.
> 
> ...


All sounds very logical.

A 3.0TT sure would be awesome.


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## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

JGreen76 said:


> I didn't buy my S3 because of price, I bought it because of size and performance output.


I'm not planning to buy mine because of price, I'm planning to buy it because of value. Its a heck of package with solid tech and performance for a reasonable price. If I were going solely on price, I'd have bought a Genesis or Maxima or something like that.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Xanlith said:


> I'm not planning to buy mine because of price, I'm planning to buy it because of value. Its a heck of package with solid tech and performance for a reasonable price. If I were going solely on price, I'd have bought a Genesis or Maxima or something like that.


Exactly. Although, I doubt anyone here is buying it because of price point alone. If that was the case we'd all be driving corollas and civics. I think I originally mentioned price in this post. I guess I should've been more eloquent and expanded on that. What I meant was value relative to what you get. Granted, the outgoing S4 is a value as well these days it seems, since they're somewhat mirroring prices to high spec S3's. Plus a built up used market.


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