# Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor



## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

i have replaced the timing sensor twice, along with the cam gear (because i bent the timing part of it) and still am getting the error code 16725.
wtf is wrong with my 2.0? other than being a 2.0


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## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (silentsee4)*

bump for some1 with knowledge


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## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (silentsee4)*

bump for knowledge


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## dana vw tech (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (silentsee4)*

The cam. pos. sensor is a hall effect.
3 wires
-power
-ground
-signal
-verify voltage and ground at connector (refer to schematic for wire configuration) with volt meter.
-verifiy square wave / signal at same connector with a graphing meter (or a homemade 5volt led test light) DO Not use a conventional test light
If power or signal problems are present, check at ECM side for open wire or ECM problem.


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## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (dana vw tech)*

i did actually do a voltage check and it was getting power. what is this square wave thing your talking about?


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## bearthebruce (Dec 23, 2005)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (silentsee4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silentsee4* »_what is this square wave thing your talking about?


_Quote »_A square wave is a kind of non-sinusoidal waveform, most typically encountered in electronics and signal processing. An ideal square wave alternates regularly and instantaneously between two levels. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave 

 
You usually use an oscilloscope to measure the performance of the sensor. I believe that the output should swing between gnd and nearly 5v.


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## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (bearthebruce)*

ok, and then from left to right in this picture of the plug which of the 3 holes is which?
and to do these two tests that are there for me to perform, which of these holes do i test?


thanks for your help guys, and gals. this all started as a simple cam install for me, and then snowballed into this huge and stupid CEL problem.


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## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (silentsee4)*

so i tested all of the female connectors and these are the numbers that i got. since i dont know which is which i simply tested all with a voltmeter
for these little diagrams the parenthesis represents the curved side of the connector, uppercase O's are the tested ports and lowercase o's are the ones left alone.
(_O__| 12.6
(__O_| 7.7
(__O_| 5

i really don't know what I'm doing so bare with me please


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## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (silentsee4)*

blump


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## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (silentsee4)*

dump


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## mcoomer (Jun 12, 2003)

If you can probe the middle wire while the connector is connected you're looking for a square wave output. If you have a multimeter you can check the middle pin for DC to ground but the meter probably won't react quickly enough to give an accurate readout so just look for it to change states rapidly. If not look for positive DC on the + pin and ground on the - pin. Troubleshoot from there. I'm not sure but I wonder if you can pull the sensor, turn the key on, and then monitor the center pin. All you have to do then is swipe a magnet over the sensor and see if it changes states. Just a thought.


_Modified by mcoomer at 4:48 AM 2-24-2009_


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (silentsee4)*

What were the running problems with the 2.0l with DTC 16275 camshaft position sensor
range/performance? I know that the CEL is on but does the car show any seroius 
functional problems? Also, what was the fix for your car?


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

I fixed almost all the problems with a new throttle body and a good used air flow sensor.
However, DTC 16725 remains and interestingly throttle body adaptation ran to OK on this 2.0l 
99.5 Jetta with an AEG code engine. My local VW dealer tech said he has seen no starts
with 16725 but this Jetta starts well and only has a poor throttle response to more than a quarter throttle opening. This Jetta will reach and maintain freeway speeds if accelerated gradually.
With 183,000 miles on the odometer I am thinking the catalytic converter is partially plugged. Has anyone else had a similar experience with a 16725 DTC on an AEG 2.0l engine?


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

Peter, 
From my experiences with 16725 on that style Cam. position sensor:
-Bent / damaged pick-up on camshaft sprocket. (a result of tampering or forcing it)
-Faulty sensor
-Faulty wiring
-Incorrect valve (mechanical) timing. This includes damage to the cam. at the key way location and the actual belt timing possibly off a tooth or so.
I have never seen a faulty ECM cause this, but it is possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/inde...00833
Also see the link Bruce found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave

Do you have a graphing meter or oscilloscope? This will be necessary to see the actual signal from the CPS.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Dana @ Ross-Tech)*

Does a 16725 DTC on an AEG 2.0l 99.5 Jetta cause a driveability problem?


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

Yes it can cause a drive-ablity problem due to being in a fixed timing map.
Verify your timing is correct.
As what Dana said above is right on . Also check the key-way on the crank to key-way on cam for damage. If your marks line up.
It is most likely that something is out of correlation but could also be a sensor, reluctor air cap incorrect, or damaged harness issue or bad ECU.
Best, 
Jack


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (vwemporium)*

Do you know which display group the 99.5 AEG code 2.0l Jetta uses for ignition timing mapped values? The one VW factory manual I have for an AEG 2.0l does not include a procedure for checking ignition timing control. For AAA 2.8l VR6 engines display group 10 shows the mapped ignition timing values but I don't know if the AEG 2.0l uses the same group. Also it was curious that throttle body adaptation ran to OK with the 16725 DTC always present. I thought that all DTCs had to be corrected and cleared before the adaptation of the throttle would run correctly.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

No the ADP can fail on some cars and even pass readiness monitors.
Separate function.
16725 code has nothing to do with the ADP of TB.
The information for timing is in the factory repair manual for AAA and AEG
Also Vag-Com labels the channel and displays a spec in the balloon so you don't have to go hunting through the repair information.








Best,
Jack


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (vwemporium)*

My question on mapped ignition values for the AEG 2.0l is exactly because that data is not included in the factory repair manual W42 008 198 103 Edition 01.98 that I have. The mapped values are included in the 2.8l VR6 repair manual for the AAA GTI/Golf/Jetta. VWs service manuals are far from complete and I am not describing the Bentley version but the expensive multi-volume sets issued by carline.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

Peter,
What your asking for is for a test that was originally for ABA and AAA engines which use 259 series Bosch ECU's for OBD2.
The old ECU's you did a test in 010 and then 045-046 for knock
Then Cabrio late had its own in 022-023 for knock and these Ecu's were a transition into the four body but also had a ABA and A3 chassis.
The ECU for an AEG is 018 and never supported this test. To my knowledge described as Ignition timing control checking being specific.
It supports the test in a different way combined with knock control.
01-04-028 test verify and further for vehicles 98> with some ECU's also having variable cam shaft control. example 094-096 tests for cam control. There are other channels for additional tests with bin bits.
You can always verify CF of each cylinder in Vag-Com to see whats going on.
Just because a specific test existed in a old car doesn't mean it will be used in a different fuel or ignition system.
The test does exist, just a different way.
Best,
Jack


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (vwemporium)*

Thanks for the explanation. Do you know if for the 99.5 Jetta 2.0l AEG engine if a 16725 DTC
can under certain conditions send the ECM and /or throttle control module into the emergency running mode? The owner of this 99.5 Jetta cannot afford to replace the camshaft position sensor and is driving the car with a 16725 DTC present at all times. Most of the time the Jetta runs and drives satisfactorily (actually drives pretty well for 183,000 miles Charity Motors car) but occasionally the Jetta will exhibit a severe driveability problem with no ability to develop any engine power. The DTCs at that time are throttle control module related even though there is a new throttle body with clean grounds and proper supply voltage. The problem is intermittent and cannot be reproduced with any degree if regularity--it just happens under very different conditions.


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

Hate to drop in on all of this heavy lingo, but I am having this problem on my vr6 and too am trying to reslove the issue.
The time i notice is most is on startup. It smells very rich. The car has trouble idling andgod forbid I press the accelerator! haha The rpm's will dip to 3-400. 
Also from reading the posts it sounds like this seems to be more of a throttle body and ecm problem as opposed to a faulty sensor? I mean correct me if I'm wrong.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

Peter,
Please post an auto-scan at this point.


_Modified by vwemporium at 9:42 AM 9-28-2009_


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (rodgertherabit)*

Post an auto-scan please.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (vwemporium)*

The owner has the 99.5 AEG 2.0l Jetta (aka Jetta from hell) for now. No doubt I will see it again!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2007)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Badore* »_The owner has the 99.5 AEG 2.0l Jetta (aka Jetta from hell) 

I have to agree, my 99.5 AEG jetta is also a jetta from hell. I had similar code ( 16705) and ended up replacing the sensor. The wiring to the sensor was frayed.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor ([email protected])*

Has anyone run a 99.5 Jetta or Golf AEG 2.0l engine with the camshaft position sensor disconnected? if so, what did it do? Our Charity Motors project 99.5 Jetta AEG 2.0l is now a no start. I knew I would see it again has soon as the towing company brings it back.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

Peter 
Yes the engine will run with the cam sensor not plugged in for a AEG and so will a ABA.
Best,
Jack


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (vwemporium)*

Yes it runs but what "bad things" does it do? And is it all the time or intermittent?


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## rodgertherabit (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

I had the same codes. 
Bank 1, Cam postition sensor... blah blah blah.
Im getting my hands dirty tomorrow to get to the bottom of it.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

Peter 
Just fix the car.
It runs with reduced output and will damage the Cat eventually.
Best
Jack


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (vwemporium)*

The Jetta's owner has limited funds and purchased the car from Charity Motors with a US Federal low income grant of $1800.00 (aka free money). All of which makes the comment "just fix the car" easier said than done--the owner has no money to buy any new parts. Because of this we sold the owner a new throttle body assembly at the shop's wholesale cost not retail. Unlike the US government we can't just ask the Department of Treasury just to print more money! However, we fixed the no start and the related driveability problems yesterday with used parts. I would still like to understand the VW emergency running mode parameters because I stalled the Jetta using VAG-COM to delete fault codes.


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: Fault code 16725 - cam position sensor (Peter Badore)*

I'm having similar problems in my car. Replaced the entire distributor with camshaft position sensor inside it. it acts like its in default timing map because I can unplug various things like cam sensor on distributor or knock sensor and nothing changes. Observing OBDII timing advance readout in VAGCOM, at idle its around 12 degrees which is the same as my truck and many other vehicles. In the factory manual it states timing will be retarded I forget some degrees like 12 or something, so it should be zero at idol? But its not, so I don't know what's going on. I haven't yet checked mechanical timing from cam to crank but I will tonight. The belt is tight and new I changed recently, and it was running great. I'm throwing a P0341 Camshaft implausible code. I have factory manual which says more specifically that means the signal coming from the camshaft position sensor doesn't make sense. I know for a fact, previously, if I unplugged the sensor while the car was running it stumbeled and (I assume) went into a default timing map or fuel injection timing map of some sort. 
What's amazing about this car, I can rotate the distributor 90 degrees or so, and it will still run. how does the computer know when to fire the cylinders? It must do some fancy testing or knock testing or timing manipulation very quickly to determine i'm turning it. Keep in mind this is with the cam feeback unplugged.
I tested it with a LED and it works perfectly, and ohmed out all wires. I've done all the simple tests (except mechanical) that I can think of.
Anyone know of a way in vag com to more deeper check the timing? See if the car is running default map or receiving correction from the cam position?
I also unplugged knock without any response from the engine, where as I said above manual states it should retard timing severely. But is that default timing map or is it responsive timing with feedback, just retarded 12 degrees?
AHHhhh I wish I knew the algorithm it uses to go into default. Or what some of those many timing fields mean in the engine block inside VAGCOM. I have messed with this thing obsessively and can't figure it out. 
Called a specialist in houston who has seen this a lot and he said replace ignition coil, lol. So I'm gonna try that tonight too; I suppose a weak spark could produce knocking or some strange thing the computer somehow detects and throws it into weird default mode.
What about more specific VAGCOM group tests? They aren't in my factory huge bentley manual. They were available to the online version you could used to rent access to through Bentley publishers website but that's not anymore; and I thought it was just in the factory manual but its not, only a couple things like throttle adaption. I know stuff like forcin the EVAP test, i printed out years ago, and still have, but its NOT in the factory manual! Frustrating!
If I knew a more sneaky timing group test or knew what some of those fields meant it might help.
I thought maybe also the MAF sensor could be causing issues since I can unplug it with no response at all from the engine. I still think its in some sort of default timing/fuel map since sensors don't seem to change anything. only code being thrown though is this P0341.AHHHH
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

Oh yea 97 jetta 2.0L ABA engine..with 350k miles on it







ran beautifully before


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: (Jagster936)*

Pull the dist. cap and the gray/black cover under the rotor. Make sure the center of the rotor is directly over the mark on distributor housing at TDC.
I would verify TDC at the Cam,Crank/Dampener and directly at the flywheel. Note the "V" on the flywheel is not TDC, there should be a -0- mark. 
Update with your timing belt status and the above mentioned checks.


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Dana @ Ross-Tech)*

Ok well long story, I replaced the distributor with hall sensor and it does not have any silly mark on the housing. I checked the cam and crank timing and it was indeed off a tooth somehow, lol, don't know if it jumped or what. Anyways corrected that, and put both at the zero, and noted exactly where that is on distributor. It lines up with the center of the spark plug wire so I know its pretty accurate. Still get the code, tried new ignition coil someone suggested just connected it up and still get the code. I noticed my middle ignition wire just pulls out of the connector is this normal, lol. I don't think this would throw that code though! This is crazy. Car runs a little better but still misses quite a bit and is weak.
Previiously, when it would throw that code, but was still close, it would run perfect just throw the code. 
I wish I knew what exactly it does to sense this code. I know the sensor works now, I know everything is timed up, and I have rotated and manipulated the distributor around where cylinder 1 is. If its that close it would run perfectly, just throw code. It still doesn't run right so something else is wrong. But why the P0341? 
At least now when I pull the MAF it responds by hesitating, which it did not before. But if I pull the knock sensor connector its supposed to retard the engine 12 degrees. I don't know if that's at idol or what. Either way it doesn't seem to be doing it, or maybe it is? I monitor ignition timing on cylinder 1 and its 12 at idol and goes up as you rev engine, but not that high. I have a tacoma that I was monitoring and it went up to nearly 45 degrees car goes to like 22. At higher rpms like 3000. 
Since knock sensor directly affects timing, suspicious of it. I'm about out of ideas though this is insanity. It is indeed an old car, 350k miles on it. But it ran perfectly before and now it acts like this. And it only does it when its hot not cold, seems to have good power then, really wierd. Yes I have checked the coolant temp and intake air temp in vag cam everything checks out good. 
No easy way to test knock sensor, I think its sending out the MV signal but who knows exactly if its right or not. Would it even throw a code, I don't know. 
About out of ideas. I'm pretty sure the ECU doesn't use only the cam sensor to throw that code. I can rotate distributor, with the cam sensor disconnected, up to 90 degrees and the car will still run. That's much more than the contact surface of the distributor rotor and little post that goes to the wires and cylinders. Somehow it determines its not making contact and advanes or retards timing. It must fire the spark super fast or maybe use the knocking to figure out if cylinder is firing. I dunno! Crazy thing
Thanks


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

So what causes a misfire, is that the knock sensor? How does the computer detect this. I know I used to get those codes; I just unplugged a sparkplug and it ran rough and never got a misfire code. Monitoring engine block using VAGCOM. 
Another important thing to note is this car runs great when cold, and as it warms up gets weaker until it gets hot and then starts missing a little under heavy acceleration, and loses a lot of power.
I was wondering if the 12 degrees retarded thing from knock sensor only happens once the engine reaches a certain temperature, seems reasonable, but the service manual does not mention this. 
I'm beginning to wonder if its a compression or mechanical problem. Someone suggested head gasket but I can't imagine it blowing or leaking just randomly one day. I took it to airport and then when I came back the next week the car ran weird. It happened pretty quickly and I never overheated it. Just one day it was weak. 
It might be running a bit better now with the cooler dense air but its still weak. AHHhhh
I think its time for a new used VR6







, but don't want to betray my reliable jetta! Its worth nothing but I'm tired of wild goose chase and dumping money into parts I'm guessing at...
Could also be, least likely, the ECU itself going whacky. Hmm..


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

From what I understand, and I wish I knew more specifically, is the crankshaft acceleration is monitored by the computer through the speed sensor there on crankshaft. This also fires the spark. This acceleration is used along with cylinder firing information to see when a cylinder does not fire. Unless volkswagen does it some other magical way, doubtfull. 
It runs so its working that well, but if its not detecting misfires could it be that sensor. Doens't seem likely since it fires correctly for the most part besides a few misses under high load. 
Those are two main things in timing circuit crank speed/position sensor and then cam position sensor. I wonder if its worth replacing the crank one. Since its still throwing that code and not running right despite all my efforts. 


_Modified by Jagster936 at 5:06 PM 10-11-2009_


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: (Jagster936)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jagster936* »_Ok well long story, I replaced the distributor with hall sensor and it does not have any silly mark on the housing. 

That mark is absolutely necessary to align the distributor / G40 sensor.
Since the fault was present and the base timing was off, that fault was to be expected. ( I have had this fault after simply adjusting a timing belt with no parts replacement and no previous MIL issues )
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/inde...00833
Have you reinstalled the Original Dist. / Cam position sensor that would have had the proper markings now that the engine is in time?


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

No the original was damaged by an idiot trying to punch out the roll pin for me, bent the gears. I have an aftermarket I guess one on there now. I can tweak the distributor housing to get it exact, and previously when I did all this it did not affect the car's running like this it ran great even with it a little off it can compensate. Something else is wrong, either ECU or something mechanical. I think I might be giving up on this car and getting a different one its not worth replacing random parts on such an old car on a wild goose chase. I'm suspicios of head gasket or loss of pressure or something not sure. Need to do a compression test. 
The mark is just there to help you align; its not critical where the distributor is as long as TDC of the crank, camshaft is pointing dead on the cylinder 1 distribution point, wire ya know of the distributor cap housing. 
One thing I didn't think of, I assume its at TDC of the distributor maybe its supposed to be 12 degrees advanced? I don't think so though. 
I thought maybe the crank sensor was acting up, I measured its resistance at the wire connection and got a little high (supposed to be 3-400 ohms I got 650 or something) but the car wouldn't run at all without it functioning. 
I'm wondering more about the cylinder misfire thing used to always get those now I never do, and I can't make it get one. Is that something wrong with ecu? I thought it uses the crank acceleration to do this, which would be computer based. Something very strange going on uggh :/
Anything mechanical, don't know how or why it would throw a code like that. 
Regardless of timing in reality, I should be able to trick the computer into being in time even if mechanical time is off between the cam and crank, I can rotate the distro to make it "think" its in the correct position for TDC #1. Hmm..crazy car. 
Is it possible it needs to be somewhere other than cylinder 1 at TDC of crank and cam? Maybe the 12 degree thing? I don't know now I got ride of the old distro


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

Let me clarify a little. When you redo the timing belt they assume you aren't taking the distributor off so its mark is I assume TDC#1 ignition wire. So when you place it back on you make sure the intermediate shaft is in a position such that the distro rotor is pointing at that mark. What I did, is I was replacing the distro. So I now put the car in TDC, cylinder 1, the normal thing both cam and crank on the "O" mark, and then put the distro in. Wherever that rotor is pointing is where you make sure the ignition wire for cylinder 1 is at, which has the electrode contact on the outter rim of the cap. That should be in line with where it points. And you can tweak a bit from there to make the code go away. Either way it should run great if your that close.
My car does nothing when I unplug the cam position sensor plug OR the knock sensor, which is very suspicios both should affect its running and have in the past, at least the cam position sensor. Never tried the knock one before. Can't tell if its "retarding" the timing 12 degrees like the manual claims or not. Any easy way to tell? Its 12 degrees advanced at idol and goes up to 20-30 at higher rpm's sitting still


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: (Jagster936)*

You are incorrect.
The RB repair manual shows how you can do this.
Even if the new aftermarket distributor didn't have the mark the dust cover does and you could use the old housing as a reference if it didn't.
Dial indicator or protractor anyone.


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

The whole point of the distributor is distribute the spark. Its only reference is the hall sensor, which is mounted on the housing, with respect to the rotor direction (cap). It cannot matter which way the rotor is pointing as long as its correct with relation to the housing and cap....


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: (Jagster936)*

You are WRONG!
For ABA.
Kevin bacon wasnt in footloose.









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJJA1vvMc4I


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (vwemporium)*

How ami wrong then? Explain to me. Either I'm misspeaking to you or you don't understand how it works. I can only hope I'm wrong but I'm out of options desperate now. Point of distro is to position spark to cylinder 1 when tdc for 1 is on crank and cam. Simple as that....


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: (Jagster936)*

Can you post some scan data. Copy the faults from the ECM and paste here.
I am absolutely sure that the timing mark on the distributor housing and the center of the rotor must align. The Engine must also be at TDC while doing so. 
The Crankshaft sensor is reading directly off the crankshaft. The Camshaft sensor does not read off the cam. It is the distributor that houses this G40 sensor. This is why it has to be set as we have discussed. The timing is controlled with the ICM and you do not turn the distributor to adjust spark timing.
I understand your concern with the reason an engine has a distributor. To distribute spark, but this one has a internal CPS. 


_Modified by Dana @ Ross-Tech at 9:03 AM 10-13-2009_


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Dana @ Ross-Tech)*

Haha I appreciate your help, I understand what your saying. 
You have to realize the computer is assuming the intermediate shaft (distributor) is timed to the cam shaft; IE the cam TDC is at cylinder 1 position on the distributor housing. 
You CAN rotate the distributor housing, the armature stays put; therefore you change when the hall sensor picks up the gap in the spinning disk thing inside distro. You therefore change the response of the computer. It does not matter where the distro is, or the intermediate shaft. You could rotate it 180 degrees, as long as the armature of the distro points to cylinder1 perfectly when cam is at TDC#1, which is when crank is at TDC#1
I have renewed hope, measured crank sensor and it was 600 ohms cold, 1100 ohms hot (runs much worse hot); 300-400 is the spec. Will replace soon, will let yall know along with my other post, thanks!
Think the computer is getting confused from erratic readings from the crank, very strange. Hard to believe it would run at all if this sensor was bad, dunno!
Only fault is P0341 which is implausible camshaft signal; in manual specifically mentions cam hall sensor. 
See the problem with these things is its not inclusive of all possibilities, and I have found nowhere onthe internet for my theory, so I can hope to contribute to the knowledge in this forum.
If the computer is getting bad reading from the crank sensor, and it fires a certain way (SO HARD TO BELIEVE IT COULD DO THIS ONLY BAD ENOUGH TO RUN INCORRECTLY, BUT STILL RUN!) it will expect a response from the cam in that way. I have rotated the distro housing a full 90 degrees and the code will not go away, in small increments of course. I have done this in past, its not that sensitive believe me, you can move it a little and code will clear if it gets off. I didn't have pins in my original housing. I need to take pics and explain to everyone so you can understand more clearly.
Thanks for the input. If this doesn't fix will kill something.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: (Jagster936)*

YOU ARE INCORRECT AGAIN.
Why not time it correct and put a geniune Bosch or factory part in.
How about verify the harness check for rodent damage/grounds etc?
Its only 3 wires run 3 new ones to test back to the ECU especially for a SP DTC.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: (Jagster936)*

YOU ARE INCORRECT AGAIN.
Why not time it correct and put a geniune Bosch or factory part in.
How about verify the harness check for rodent damage/grounds etc?
Its only 3 wires run 3 new ones to test back to the ECU especially for a SP DTC.
No more soup for you 
Lock this thread because this guy has not posted an Auto-Scan.
P-code hell


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Dana @ Ross-Tech)*

Haha sigh I already mentioned several times the new distrubitor doesn't have a mark on the casing. 
Buuut...I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!!!!!! Finally! Turns out the new distro's marking on the top cap for cylinder 1 was actually 90 degrees retarded from the real cylinder 1 position on the old distro. I compared both to them, the new one had me pointing TDC1 to the wire near the hall pickup gap on the plate that spins, it was supposed to be 90 degrees advanced of that (roughly). Ommmgg...
Runs like a champ yet again now, thanks for help. Bring on the 400,000 miles


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

VWemporium: It was only P0341 code, nothing else. That's why I didn't post. Its solved now anyway I knew it was something stupid, uggh. 
I'm not dumb I have tried all the simple fixes suggested many times. This was a dirty thing, I should have compared old and new one more closely


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: (Jagster936)*

ah Yeah, I did say protractor and dial indicator.
And not to mention the dust cover for the reluctor will display the index mark also.
That's what you get when you buy garbage AFT and you don't pay attention to detail.
Glad you you retraced your mistakes.
Best,
Jack


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## Jagster936 (Feb 8, 2002)

Haha no marks anywhere, believe me. That's why I relyed on silly label on top, I didn't connect the dots between the old and new one until just recently.
I know this was supposed to be OEM...and I was even second guessing the spacing of the pickup gap and things like that, I considered everything, just didn't compare the old and new one as close as I should.
Only way I EVER buy from dealer direct is for time issues, they always have things in stock







. Otherwise you can get similar/same quality parts for much cheaper elsewhere, dealer is RIP.
Thanks for help


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## mk2vdub (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: (Jagster936)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jagster936* »_Buuut...I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!!!!!! Finally! Turns out the new distro's marking on the top cap for cylinder 1 was actually 90 degrees retarded from the real cylinder 1 position on the old distro. I compared both to them, the new one had me pointing TDC1 to the wire near the hall pickup gap on the plate that spins, it was supposed to be 90 degrees advanced of that (roughly). Ommmgg... 

So the way you finally fixed it was by having the rotor pointing to cylinder 1 on the distributor cap while everything else was aligned to TDC? Or did you have the hall window at the sensor while everything else was TDC? 
I have been having the same exact problem as you since April and nobody has given me any insight whatsoever. My problem didn't just happen in one day it started to get worse and worse as time went on till the car wasn't drivable other than up and down my street. I am going to put in a new timing belt on Thursday (current one has 30k) and hope that fixes the problem because I have already checked the wiring, timing and replaced the CPS.


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: (mk2vdub)*

This will more then likely not correct this issue. Unless the distributor is loose.


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## downunderthehood (Oct 27, 2009)

On my 2.0L AGG with Simos ECM, i had both the coil pack and camshaft sensor replaced, but still getting a 00515 - Camshaft Position (Hall) Sensor (G40)
16-10 - Signal Outside Specifications - Intermittent error code ---
Did a voltage test on connector ...
pin 3 to Gnd - 11.37 V
pin 2 to Gnd - 10.98 V
Question? should it be a more around the 5V mark for pin3??does it mean my ECM is faulty?? I've checked the wiring, all seems ok...


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## crapWagen (Oct 12, 2015)

LOL, what kind of $hit is this? The AEG doesn't even have a distributor, its electronic ignition. umpkin:


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