# Power Steering bubbles



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Gents,

So its super cold out and my power steering decided it wants to make some noise when I turn the wheel. Check the reservoir and wouldn't you know it I'm low on fluid. Go out to stealership for some top up (20 bux later) put some in (not too much) drive back to office and there is still some noise during the drive. I thought maybe I didn't add enough. So I get to my parkade and take a look. the dip stick was FULL of bubbles. almost frothy like. had a greenish tinge to it which i thought was good. but there were a TON of bubbles and still some noise. 

So maybe the bubbles are from air in the lines that are making its way out? maybe the cooler fluid going into a semi warm reservoir caused bubbles? Any thoughts on this? Anyone seen anything like this?


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

not enough fluid in the system!


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Vonderbar. I'll keep adding as I go and report back later. 

Thanks max


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Well here we are again. 

I've been topping up the fluid from time to time. Thinking i had an air lock or something. still seem to be loosing fluid. Still see bubbles after I run it. Is it normal to see bubbles / frothyness after a run?


Have a feeling i'm leaking somewhere and its landing on the belly pan. I'll have to verify for sure. I know these cars like to have the steering racks give out so I'm a bit worried. I plan on putting the car on jack stands and moving the wheel from side to side to see if I get any leaking when I put pressure through the system. If I have leaky seals where would I see the leak? by the tie rod boots or will it leak out by the rack itself? 

Any other ways to determine if its the rack and not just the pump?

When I start the car and it idles you can hear the pump almost grumble a bit and there is a whine in tune with the idle (it has been really cold). any moderate turning i can feel the pump kick on and off almost (which makes me think pump) I'm gonna check the fluid level again but I bet its down. 

Any definitive way to determine if the rack is pooched? 

How common is it to have a pump fail and not the rack. 

Really hope its not the rack but with my luck....

THanks Guys


----------



## Alan_G_1.8T (Jul 11, 2002)

Interested in this as well, as I've have the exact same issue just happen to my TT. This frigid cold bitter weather sucks!!


----------



## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

Most power steering fluids have an anti-frothing agent added to them to prevent this, but if it's frothing after you add each time, I have a feeling that air may be entering the system through the low pressure line. If it were leaking through the high pressure line, you'd have quite the mess under the car. Do you have any visible leaks? How are the ends of the rack where the boots meet the inner tie rods? Wet with fluid? I've had a rebuilt rack ready to go into my TT for three years now, but I'm only leaking on the passenger's side seal. I used some stop-leak power steering fluid that I picked up at CarQuest a few years back and I don't leak at all onto the ground now, so I've been putting the job off...


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

No visible leaks. I'll be taking the belly pan off later this week once it warms up to check on the tie rods. I'm really leaning towards the power steering pump. I can feel/hear it struggle even at idle, kicks in and out on cruising speed when i'm banking into a corner and applying some steer. 

What are the symptoms of a bad steering rack? Could I be mistaking my perceived PS pump issues with a bad steering rack?


----------



## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

G'D60 said:


> I know these cars like to have the steering racks give out so I'm a bit worried.


Huh? Either I have incredible luck, or the 4-500K miles I've put on 1.8T's have been isolated anomolies, because I've never had a power steering rack go out. My 03 GTI had 240K miles before I parked it, my other 03 20thAE GTI has 155K miles, both bought new. Yes the rack is different, but only in ratio, otherwise interchangeable. My current TT has only 59K miles, but my 02 had 115K on it, and neither had any leaks from the steering rack. Bottom line, I doubt it's the rack. If it was, it would get hard to steer at slow speeds regardless of fluid level. The pumps rarely go out either, unless run dry. Like said, sounds like you are sucking air on the low pressure side.


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Thanks for the input. I've checked the level again and it seems to be well within spec. After a 20minute run I still see bubbles and frothyness. If I am sucking in air from the low pressure side is there a way to re-clamp it? Or just add a stop leak additive? 

My steering is progressively getting worse it feels. I'm not hearing the pump as much but there is little assist anymore and at low speeds I'm using all muscle. When its a significant turn (looping down my parkade) she makes noise for days and I'm using all muscle. 

SO I'm thinking my slow unknown low side power steering rack leak bled my system slowly. The cold weather got at my pump and pooched it. Now i can keep a fairly decent fluid level but as the guts of my pump are done I get very little to no assist anymore. 

Does anyone have a DIY for pump replacement? didn't see one in the search. Even an ETKA print out to show the part and how it assembles to the block would help. 

Thanks for the help guys. Good luck to those who have the same issue. I'll keep the thread up to date for future searching.


----------



## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

All parts diagrams can be seen here: Here. You have to remove the pulley to get the pump out. There are three 6mm socket head cap screws aka allen bolts holding it to the pump. The pump is held to the accessory bracket by three 13mm bolts on the pulley side and one on the other side. The low pressure side line just clamps to the pump, but the high pressure side has the sensor harness in it and is held on by a banjo bolt (not sure on size, I want to say 17mm but could be wrong).


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Appreciate the link 20V. Thanks. I'm gonna put a used PS pump in for the time being and make sure its my pump and not the rack. if problem persists then i'll do a rack.


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

And do make sure you are using the proper Pentosin CHF-11S fluid or VW/Audi fluid. These cars are very sensitive to PS fluids. Using the wrong fluid, even to top up can ruin the seals in the rack.

A used pump is a good idea. They can have issues. Extreme cold weather, as in Calgary Alberta, will make older pumps groan when cold. You'll seldom get this issue in Southern climates. The frothing is not good though.

Just on a hunch. Have you checked the tightness on all of the Banjo bolts, both pump side and rack side? A slightly loose Banjo bolt on the low pressure side of the pump will suck in air, but may not show a fluid leak.


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Chickenman35 said:


> And do make sure you are using the proper Pentosin CHF-11S fluid or VW/Audi fluid. These cars are very sensitive to PS fluids. Using the wrong fluid, even to top up can ruin the seals in the rack.
> 
> A used pump is a good idea. They can have issues. Extreme cold weather, as in Calgary Alberta, will make older pumps groan when cold. You'll seldom get this issue in Southern climates. The frothing is not good though.
> 
> Just on a hunch. Have you checked the tightness on all of the Banjo bolts, both pump side and rack side? A slightly loose Banjo bolt on the low pressure side of the pump will suck in air, but may not show a fluid leak.


Yes. Using VW/Audi fluid. 20 bux for 355ml!! or 40 bux for 1L. Nice and cheap... I do want to take a peek at the banjo bolts and fittings to see if I can visually find a leak, wondering if its worth buying new banjos/clamps to make the bleeding stop (anyone have part #'s for these fittings?). I plan on testing this by putting the front end up on jacks and turning the the wheels from side to side. If i have a leak on the high pressure side i'll know about it real quick. if its on the low side i'm hoping enough will drip/seep to see where its coming from. I've got a line on a used pump so I'll toss that in and see how it feels. Hopefully I wont have to do the rack.

lite1979 what PS stop leak did you use? are they like little chips/flakes that go in? 

Appreciate all the feedback guys!


----------



## lite1979 (Sep 9, 2005)

It was so long ago, I don't remember the brand name. I want to say Lucas, but I can't be sure.


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Calgary has lots of Auto Suppliers. You should be able to order Pentosin CHF-11S through your local Parts store a lot cheaper than from a dealership. 1Liter of CHF-11s cost me $30.17 CDN the last time I bought it in 2013.

My preferred local supplier is part of the Altrom group which is a major supplier of parts for Import cars. All Napa suppliers are part of the Altrom group. 

Here is a link to their online parts catalog.

http://www.altrom.com/

You can browse the Parts catalog and look up parts for your vehicle, but only dealers can look up prices. Not a big deal, and the catalog is very handy. I often just look up what I need and give my Parts " Guy " the part number and ask for price and availability. Much, much cheaper than the dealer and usually all parts are OEM ( Bosch, Beru etc ) and made in Germany.

EG: My AEB coils from my supplier cost me $54 CDN each. They are OEM BERU, made in Germany, and EXACTLY the same coils that came on the car from the factory. That's a very good price in Canada, but bear in mind I have a wholesale account. If you deal with one shop though, you can usually get wholesale prices if you are a regular customer. Calgary has lots of shops and the competition for sales should be fierce.


----------



## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Be cautious with the Stop Leak products. VW/Audi power steering uses a " Hydraulic Fluid " which is a little different than regular PS fluid as you well know. Any " Stop Leak " product that you use, has to be compatible with the VW/Audi seals just like CHF-11S hydraulic fluid. Use the wrong Stop Leak product and the seals can be destroyed. The manufacturers website can usually provide full specifications. 

I've never used the Lucas Stop Leak product so I cannot offer any input on it's suitability.


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

Chickenman

Thanks for the heads up. I've heard of Altrom before and they are great. I have a guy that uses them in a wholesale capacity but he's an hour away so I have to make my trips worth it. Dealer worked out fine for top up material. 

As for the stop leak, I'm wondering if there is something similar to coolant stop leak. Its an actual flake you put in and it works its way down to the whole so there is no fluid involved. I'll do some more searching today on an appropriate stop leak fluid and report back if I find anything.

Thanks


----------

