# VR6 MS2 V3 Woes



## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

Alright so I have a fully assembled MS2 V3 board. I'm having some issues though. I'm using a vr sender. 

First being my MAP sensor is reading around 148 and it should only be round 96 or something (that's what my map reads in my other car with MS). 

I'm running 3 coil drivers. Doing everything from what DIY Autotune has. I ran the ground of the additional two drivers to the third leg of the first driver, is that okay? 

Jumpers: 
VRIN -> Tachselect 
TSEL -> VROut 
IGN -> IGBOut 

When I turn the MS on with my stim. The three LED's stay on constantly (in MS). The only LED i ever see light up on the STIM is the Pump. I do have my settings already changed on my MS for my car (VW VR6) borrowing other people's MSQ's. 

But, besides the RPM pot's, the other four pots do adjust values in MegaTune. I was assuming the RPM was just not showing due to the VR sensor stuff. It's a V2 Stim by the way. 

edit: so i just noticed that my stim seems pretty ancient. it has a pot for for: tps, o2, iat, and clt all that work, but then there's one for RPMf and RPMC (which do nothing with my symptoms) 
Anyways any insight at what may be causing at least the high MAP reading?


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## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

Jopn said:


> Alright so I have a fully assembled MS2 V3 board. I'm having some issues though. I'm using a vr sender.
> 
> First being my MAP sensor is reading around 148 and it should only be round 96 or something (that's what my map reads in my other car with MS).
> 
> ...


 didn't calibrate my MAP sensor to the right values... my bad... so anyone know any settings i have to do to accept the stock VR sender?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

You need a jstim to simulate a missing tooth wheel. With MS2 your trigger wheel settings should be: 

In ignition options, type- toothed wheel capture- rising edge output- going high (inverted) # of coils- waste spark spark A- D14 

In trigger wheel settings, wheel arrangement- single wheel with missing teeth # of teeth- 60 missing teeth- 2 tooth # 1 angle- 78 wheel speed- crank wheel. 

Personally I would ground each BIP seperately. 

Hope this helps


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Make sure both pots are fully CCW. I usually use VROUTINV but you can use VROUT if you invert the input trigger edge with MS2. 

You didn't mention what coil/coilpack(s) and what other mods are done to support them. 

Ditto on the wheel settings, that should work.


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## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

Umm, well I plan on just using a ford explorer Coilpack which is just 4 pin (12v, bank A, C, B). 

Other than that I'm running stock VR, IAT, and Coolant Temp. 

What do you mean I need to invert the input trigger edge with MS2? I just read that MS1 you usually use VRoutINV and ms2 you usually use VROUT... So I jumpered VROut 

I'm not sure what other Mods I have to do. Again I'm using the 3 coil drivers the BIP things wired up to what DIYAutotune says... I didn't think I'd have much more to screw around with except maybe dwell settings and what not with the coilpack. 

Oh and what would be the negative effect of not grounding them to different locations? 


also paul, is the underdrive pulley you use a little bigger on my other post you responded using a 1081 instead of a 1080.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Sorry, I somehow missed that you were running three BIP's that's fine. 

MS2 has a software selection for ignition input capture (MS1 doesn't) it just needs to be set to rising edge. Mine is wired for MS1 (VROUTINV) and is set to falling for MS2/3 use. 

The wiring for the BIP needs to carry the current for the coil across wherever you ground it. I usually wire the BIP grounds to the R43 jumper and then run another wire or cut thick diode lead to the MS ground pins (1,2,7-19). For the actual BIP outputs I run them to the IAC or SPR locations but I include another jumper to the actual pin from those locations. The board traces are not beefy enough to handle the current (for long). 

1080/1081 are usually the same belt, 42.5" it really depends on what your parts store carries.


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## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

i ended up getting a 1086 which seems to still fit quite tight so i think it'll do... thanks for the help, much appreciated! my motor is finally mounted so now it's time to wire up the squirt... i'm getting excited.


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## Technik Motorsport (Feb 16, 2005)

You may want to try a 10k ohm resistor on the VR signal line


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I've never had to put a 10k on the input side of a VW VR sensor.


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## Technik Motorsport (Feb 16, 2005)

I hear that often too, however, with out an error board, its sometimes necessary.
Not only with MS, it seems prevalent with 3.57 
but also when using AEM.
Recently had to do the same thing for a G60 using an 034 crank trigger.
The amplification as revs rise can end up counterproductive.
Changing the gap will end up either good for hi, or good for low revs, not across the board.

Assuming the POTs have been adjusted, 
For .50 and 2 minutes connect time at the relay board ( if using ) its a quick & simple try it.
I think Matt @ DIY was the one who turned me on to this actually.
It affects a good number of standalone systems using VR trigger.

In one case, it would fire, however wouldn't allow the engine to rev past 3400 RPM.
Install resistor, presto.
In others, it was a lack of a synch signal.


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## Technik Motorsport (Feb 16, 2005)

I just realized this was on a STIM
FML


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Stim is a different story, here's how I've set up 20+ cars:

both pots fully CCW
vroutinv jumper
red on crank to VR+, green VR-

Works every time. 

For stim testing I use a 12v pullup on the tach input. It does get a little funky at high rpm on the stim but no problems in the car at 8500+


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## Technik Motorsport (Feb 16, 2005)

Agreed, this does work as best practice.
I really don't have a great explanation for these few vehicles other then the amplitude of the VR signal when checked on the scope.
Curious,
Do you use the error board on all of your installs?
I wonder if the multiple VR channels provide some extra conditioning.
I have seen this 3 times out of roughly 15 VR triggered vehicles.
One of which was running AEM & the 034 60 -2 wheel and adjustable trigger.
To that end, the vehicle actually uses a output channel to switch the VR circuit to a higher resistance after a predetermined RPM.

Doesn't help jopn I know, but its not unheard of.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

No, I prefer the V3 style circuit to the LM1815 circuit. I've used the LM circuit twice with good results though, takes a LOT of pot tweaking to make it work well.


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## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

I have all my signals and I get the car to sputter and i log about 800 rpms at max, but then it stalls out. It's like the first initial prime of fuel it will be good, but then after that first prime, then it either gets flooded or is not enough, i can't tell yet, but using pauls map i can't seem to get it to fully start yet...


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The one on msruns is for 60lb/hr injectors. If you're using any other size, use the req_fuel calculator to reset it correctly.


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## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

need_a_VR6 said:


> The one on msruns is for 60lb/hr injectors. If you're using any other size, use the req_fuel calculator to reset it correctly.


i did re-adjust my req_fuel but it still seems to just hit that 800rpm mark then drop back down to starter speed.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Can you take a datalog of it?


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## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Can you take a datalog of it?


they are posted on my thread on msextra forums

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=36335

the second log on there..


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Looks like it's shutting off right when ASE turns off. Try pumping the throttle a bit to get accel to kick in and see if you can keep it running like that.


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## Jopn (Oct 22, 2004)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Looks like it's shutting off right when ASE turns off. Try pumping the throttle a bit to get accel to kick in and see if you can keep it running like that.


and if this manages to work? then what should i be doing?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

More fuel. ASE timer longer, warmup bin higher, idle ve higher (try in that order).


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