# Need help with hybrid aba 16v info/options



## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

*Ok like the title states, i am considering building a 16v up. I am unsure about what direction to take it, N/A or boosted. I am sure this has been posted 1000times. But with the new format, everything is just that much harder to source. So, sorry in advance :beer: 

What combos does the aba 16v hybrid have that's not a wallet buster? I'll give a partial example of what i mean. 

I know you can combine the aba bottom and 16v top end will work. 
But as it sits, isn't the compression left low for boost (8.5:1)? (Am I off there?) 
What cheap options are there to get the compression back up to 10:1 to 10.5:1 if i don't go with boost? And vice versa? 

If i go boost i would like to see 180-220whp... 
Or I'd like to see loosely 175bhp NA... 
(It will be a all year driven car in Canada, so reliability is a must)  

Just trying to find all options in simple laymen terms! BTW, both options will be ran with MS, no oem ecu or cis will be considered. Heck even add in your 2 cents with your opinions of both. 

Thanks ahead of time*


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

The cheapest and easiest will be an ABA bottom end and 16V head boosted. You could use stock parts, wind up around 8.5 to 1 and with 10psi of boost easily reach your target hp or more. Plus the car would be very docile off boost with a good idle and smooth low end. 

If you go N/A you'll need ABF pistons for 10-10.5 to 1 and cams and head work to hit 175hp, it'll be fun but peaky. Not ideal for a daily. 

Regardless the ABA bottom end will make running MS a piece of cake.


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## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

Boost sounds fun but i'm just a little hesitant as it would be my personally first hybrid motor on boost. LoL, being a MS newb, i fear i'd set it up wrong and blow it up lol  

I read some where but i can't source where, but if you use either stock aba rods with 9a pistons, you can get about 9 to 9.5:1 compression. Or something thing like that. Was i reading bs or? 

I've been out of the dub scene for a bit and lots have changed over the few years swap and hybrid wise. LoL, hard to keep up or know whats proper info anymore. 

Is there a way to raise it with other stock parts that arent that expensive? I know some guy on vortex had JE make him a set of pistions for the aba 16v NA combo, but it was forsure a 10.5:1 setup. What worries me is the fact i will not have a knock sensor, unless there is one or is useable from an aba. 

Ms wise, the aba ignition will be fine for MS to read and have good full control over timing? 

Cam wise i won't be going that crazy, maybe the Autotech Sport cams or a pair of TT sport cams (based off the ABF) or maybe 1 step further. While trying to make sure its not just a top end motor. Any higher and your 100% right, peaky indeed... 

Thanks for the help/future help...:beer:


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## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

bump:beer:


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Old_Skool said:


> Boost sounds fun but i'm just a little hesitant as it would be my personally first hybrid motor on boost. LoL, being a MS newb, i fear i'd set it up wrong and blow it up lol
> 
> I read some where but i can't source where, but if you use either stock aba rods with 9a pistons, you can get about 9 to 9.5:1 compression. Or something thing like that. Was i reading bs or?
> 
> ...


 Boost and MS is not nearly as scary as it seems and there lots of msqs ( tune files ) floating around for 2.0L turbo motors. Even better MS2/Extra and MS3 have overboost protection and MS3 has AFR safety for boosted motors. 

Using 9A pistons with an ABA requires rebushing the ABA rods for the bigger 9A wrist pins. 

Knock sensors are vastly overrated and require both a knock module of some sort ( KnockSense MS is pretty good) AND mods to the MS mainboard but they can be used with MS. Personally I just tune carefully and conservatively and use a wideband for reading AFRs ( a MUST with MS). 

If you use the stock ABA crank sensor for your rpm input there are several ways you can go with the ignition system. Single coil with the distributor, MSD and single coil or waste spark. With an MS3 you can also do full sequential ignition (Coil on plug or coil near plug) by using the ABA dizzy's hall sensor for a cam signal ( like the factory motronic ECU does). But no matter the method you choose, it's quite accurate and timing is fully programmable.


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## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

Prof315 said:


> If you use the stock ABA crank sensor for your rpm input there are several ways you can go with the ignition system. Single coil with the distributor, MSD and single coil or waste spark. With an MS3 you can also do full sequential ignition (Coil on plug or coil near plug) by using the ABA dizzy's hall sensor for a cam signal ( like the factory motronic ECU does). But no matter the method you choose, it's quite accurate and timing is fully programmable.


 I was more than likely going to go the single coil with the aba fact. distributor due to the fact its already there. Basically as much oem stuff as i can. Would it be sufficient for either route (na or boost) ? 

Thanks for your replies btw :beer:


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Sure especially at the power levels you are looking for.


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

i have been reading; collecting parts and waiting for a year or so to build a aba 16v turbo also. 

i want to use CIS basic; so 220 HP is the limit for a budgets build. 
i have learned from reading countless threads about HP numbers; after the 220 or 250 hp line; you have more HP at the wheels than the stock tires; axles; tranny; clutch and so on can take. 
so the budget goes out the window because now you have to reinforce those areas. 

SO you can go: 

ABA bottom end; 16v head with SINGLE headgasket; 8;5 or a bit more; good for conservative amounts of boost. I am planning to run 10 or less PSI on stock internals. 
If you use the aba rods the money goes to rebushing the wrist pin area to receive the 16v piston head. 

ABA bottom end; 16V head; TDI crank. with this set-up; again money goes ot the rebushing of the wrist pins; the pistons have to be custom made; you get around 10;xx close to 10.5 compression ration. NO BOOST HERE. 

16v long block; double headgasket and run up to 10 PSI of boost safely. 

this is the cheapest most simple way to achieve the 200 HP range. 

if interested in a trade for the audi 4000 bentley; let me know. 
i have 50 mm intake manifold for hte 16v; roco 16v intake manifold; 16v turbo exaust manifold never used; reman turbo with uinternal waste gate for 10 PSI; new garrett turbo from a volvo highway truck; warm up regulator set-ups form bmw; audi and volvo turbo cars; intercooler from highway trucks; 1.8t intercooler; TDI intercoolers; i have too much stuff to list. 
let me know


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ellocolindo said:


> i have been reading; collecting parts and waiting for a year or so to build a aba 16v turbo also.
> 
> i want to use CIS basic; so 220 HP is the limit for a budgets build.
> i have learned from reading countless threads about HP numbers; after the 220 or 250 hp line; you have more HP at the wheels than the stock tires; axles; tranny; clutch and so on can take.
> ...


 You DO NOT want to use 2 head gaskets with a stock ABA bottom end and 16V head. Just bolting the head on with 1 ABA gasket gives you ~8.5 to 1.


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## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

What would you be willing to trade? I would also like to get both manuals of them sold/traded together.


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## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

Prof315 said:


> Boost and MS is not nearly as scary as it seems and there lots of msqs ( tune files ) floating around for 2.0L turbo motors. Even better MS2/Extra and MS3 have overboost protection and MS3 has AFR safety for boosted motors./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> My only worry is that i am electrical retarded, and have too little MS experience imo. Finding a msqs i am sure wouldn't be hard. But knowing their setup top to bottom is usually impossible, as they at most, give a few specs. You can set it up differently sensor wise, spark, and whatever else and i'd assume the msqs's are all going to be way different. I got to get some damn Bentleys to get an idea of where the base timing is to start and all that jazz. I mean hard to even ballpark something you got no clue about. Its been quite a while since i did a full engine build let alone a hybrid, i usually did work to the parts, not assembly. Meh my anxiety's getting the best of me again lol :laugh:
> ...


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Old_Skool said:


> Prof315 said:
> 
> 
> > Boost and MS is not nearly as scary as it seems and there lots of msqs ( tune files ) floating around for 2.0L turbo motors. Even better MS2/Extra and MS3 have overboost protection and MS3 has AFR safety for boosted motors./QUOTE]
> ...


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## Old_Skool (Feb 29, 2004)

cool, thanks... Any other tips?


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