# Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ???



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

Car cranks, but will NOT start.
I have replaced the fuses (one was blown), fuel pump relay #409, fuel pump, etc. Car cranks, but does NOT start.
When I open the driver's side door, the fuel pump does NOT prim despite replacing all of the above. The car door's red light does turn on. Dome light comes on and will turn off in about 1 minutes. I have not check engine light on and I do not have access to a VAG.
I also tried unplugging the MAF. Same result. 
I have checked the battery by jump starting it. Nope not the problem. Checked the battery fusees. Nothing wrong and really clean.
Anyone have an idea where to look? Immobilizer? I took out my old (new) key that has been sitting in my drawer for several years and my valet key. None of them will start the car. I am out of ideas. 
I did recently got my fuel filter replaced. Could anything have gone on there? 
The car is a 2001 Jetta Wolfsburg Edition. Engine Code: AWW 1.8T.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!





























****UPDATE***11/14/09 Approx. 11:00 pm* I pulled the fuel pump rely and waited 10 seconds and re-installed the rely. Then I heard the fuel pump primming. So I put the key in the ignition and turned to the 1 position. Then to the 2 position, then I heard the fuel pump prim again!!! Then to the 3 position and it cranked and started. I drove around several blocks and put arond 10 miles on the clock. Came back home and parked and turned off the car. Waited a couple minutes to see if it would start again and it did. Went inside my home for a couple of hours. Went back outside to see if the car would start again. Now back to square 1. The car does NOT start but only cranks. This time it seems as if the motors shakes while cranking (I have replaced all 4 of my ignition coils last year).















****UPDATE***11/15/09 Approx. 10:30 am* Open driver';s side door and did NOT hear any priming of the fuel pump. Key in the ignition at position 1, then 2, I noticed that after all the lights are on. After a few seconds, the ASR light is left on and did not hear priming of the fuel pump. Turn the key all the way, just cranks and did not start. 
Second attempt, key to position 1, then 2. All lights come on, BUT this time, EPC light and check engine light stayed on as well fuel pump priming. Turn key all the way, the car started. I let idle for like 5 minutes. Drove car for 10 miles around the block to burn off any fuel that might be in the cat and bring it to operating temp. While driving, no check engine light or EPC on. 
Came back home and turned off car. Waited about 2 minutes and started car again. Same thing happened, key at position 2 shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Car started. I turned off the car and tried to restart, same thing, EPC and check engine w/ furl pump priming. I will wait for about an hour and see if the car will start again after sitting for a longer period of time.









****UPDATE***11/15/09 Approx. 11:30 am*
key at position 2 shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Car started. I turned off the car and tried to restart, same thing, EPC and check engine w/ furl pump priming. Drove a couple of blocks and the Engine Light is now on. I have no access to a VAG. Can it be the crank sensor???
****UPDATE***11/15/09 Approx. 7:00 pm*
Crank Position Senor replaced. Check Engine Light disappeared after installation of crank senor.
Key at Position 2 still shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Starts every time throughout the day, so for. We will see tomorrow morning. 
Got to find someone w/ a VAG Com to see what the stored codes are.
Now I have spent money on a fuel pump relay and fuel pump that I did not even need. Anyone interested in them for cheap? 

****UPDATE***11/16/09 Approx. 1:00 pm*
This morning, Key at Position 2 still shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Car starts.
Drive to work and hit a "bumpy" part of the road. EPC light flashed once. Continued to drive. At a red light, car dies. Re-started fine. Continue to drive to work.
****UPDATE***11/16/09 Approx. 8:45 pm*
Key at Position 2 still shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Car starts.
Drive to the supermarket. Done shopping, start car. Car dies. Re-started fine. Continue to drive home. No other issues. Need to find a VAG Com.

****UPDATE***11/17/09 Approx. 10:00 am*
Key at Position 2 shows ASR light w/o fuel pump priming. Car cranks but does not start. Back to square 1.
VW is a piece of SH!t.








****UPDATE***11/17/09 Approx. 1:00 pm*
Key at Position 2 shows ASR light w/o fuel pump priming. Car cranks but does not start. 
Decided to call this VW Tech (Works at the dealer) I bring my car to sometimes to come down and VAG my car for $$. He said he was going to get off work at 5:00 pm. Anyhow, he was a no show. 
****UPDATE***11/18/09 Approx. 1:00 pm*
Call same VW Tech who was a "no show" on 11/17/09 if he was going to come down to VAG my car. He said he would come today after whatever he had to do and will call me before 5:00 pm. Rather than wait like I did yesterday for a "no show," I decided to to call and confirm that he is actually going to come down and VAG my car. He said he could not come down. **He could at least told me (at least call me rather than me call him) he could not do it (despite the understanding that I was going to pay him for his time)** 
So know, *I have wasted two (2) for nothing. * This VW Tech is a Vortex Member. Not saying anything negative, but just saying that some people should be a little more considerate of others. 
****UPDATE***11/18/09 Approx. 5:00 pm*
Decided to call this "person" who is know in the VW community. So I do not want to say who at this time. On the phone seems pretty "arrogant" and GUARANTEES that he can tell EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG. Gave the speech of NOT just scanning my car BUT diagnosing my car, etc. Anyhow, comes highly recommended. 
In person he is pretty cool and very knowledgeable (7:45 pm). I am impressed. Can't judge someone on the phone. 
He tried to VAG my car, but said there was no communication w/ my ecm. He has to get the "shop's" ecm to put in my car to continue the diagnostic. 
Decided to get my car towed to his house do so he can diagnose it the following day.

****UPDATE***11/19/09 Approx. 9:00 pm*
Tried to call him (9:00 pm since he does all his side work after 7:00 pm) to see if he was around so that I can get my parking pass for my work from my car and to pay him the balance of $5 I owe him (he did not have change the other night). He did not answer. Ok, no problem. Don't want him to think I am rushing him or anything.
Now just waiting. If I cannot get this resolved, I will have it towed to a shop and depending on what is actually wrong with the car, I may just want to fix and take it back to stock. I am tired on VW bullsh!t. Just want to sell it now.
The Japanese cars I have owned NEVER EVER has these kinds of problems. They were worry free and the engines are bullet proof. The only other German car I owned was a BMW (when I was a kid) that I BEAT the sh!t out of and it never failed. That BMW took so much abuse from me, but kept on running.
Now that I am older I am pretty much conservative now (not abusing the car I own), but apparently, my VW cannot handle it.









****UPDATE***11/21/09 Approx. 4:45 pm*
Bought ECM from a dismantler.
Replaced old ECM with new ECM. Car starts. VAG'ed car and perform tests. No faults and no codes. Everything passed. Perform throttle body alignment. 
*Only one thing remains: Key in position 2 shows ALL lights on (Normal), but when all the lights go off one by one, the only lights left are EPC Light, Check Engine Light and battery light BEFORE starting. I wonder if this is NORMAL?*
Can anyone with an MK4 tell if this is normal? I would appreciate it! Thanks in advance. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

NOW I HAVE A FUEL PUMP RELAY AND FUEL PUMP THAT HAD NOTHING WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE.


_Modified by MarkusWolf at 5:01 PM 11-21-2009_


----------



## DISTURBO (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

did the car run after the fuel filter was replaced? maybe its in backwords







. Take off the feed line on the fuel rail and run it into a cup and see if your getting fuel while you turn in with the key.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (DISTURBO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DISTURBO* »_did the car run after the fuel filter was replaced? maybe its in backwords







. Take off the feed line on the fuel rail and run it into a cup and see if your getting fuel while you turn in with the key. 

Fuel filter was done about a month ago and ran fine. Thanks.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

Bump for update.
****UPDATE**** I pulled the fuel pump rely and waited 10 seconds and re-installed the rely. Then I heard the fuel pump primming. So I put the key in the ignition and turned to the 1 position. Then to the 2 position, then I heard the fuel pump prim again!!! Then to the 3 position and it cranked and started. I drove around several blocks and put arond 10 miles on the clock. Came back home and parked and turned off the car. Waited a couple minutes to see if it would start again and it did. Went inside my home for a couple of hours. Went back outside to see if the car would start again. Now back to square 1. The car does NOT start but only cranks. This time it seems as if the motors shakes while cranking (I have replaced all 4 of my ignition coils last year).


----------



## waabaah (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MarkusWolf* »_Bump for update.
****UPDATE**** I pulled the fuel pump rely and waited 10 seconds and re-installed the rely. Then I heard the fuel pump primming. So I put the key in the ignition and turned to the 1 position. Then to the 2 position, then I heard the fuel pump prim again!!! Then to the 3 position and it cranked and started. I drove around several blocks and put arond 10 miles on the clock. Came back home and parked and turned off the car. Waited a couple minutes to see if it would start again and it did. Went inside my home for a couple of hours. Went back outside to see if the car would start again. Now back to square 1. The car does NOT start but only cranks. This time it seems as if the motors shakes while cranking (I have replaced all 4 of my ignition coils last year).

















so..is square 1 still still saying that your not hearing your fuel pump prime? if so then climb under the car and check for power at the fuel pump. if you have power but no fuel pump priming then its a bad fuel pump.
or you can jump the relay and provide power to the fuel pump. if you dont hear the fuel pump when you supply power to it then bad fuel pump. onyl bad thing about this is yoru not checking grounds but the chances of yoru fuel pump ground going bad is very slim


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (waabaah)*

****UPDATE***11/15/09 Approx. 10:30 am* Open driver';s side door and did NOT hear any priming of the fuel pump. Key in the ignition at position 1, then 2, I noticed that after all the lights are on. After a few seconds, the ASR light is left on and did not hear priming of the fuel pump. Turn the key all the way, just cranks and did not start. 
Second attempt, key to position 1, then 2. All lights come on, BUT this time, EPC light and check engine light stayed on as well fuel pump priming. Turn key all the way, the car started. I let idle for like 5 minutes. Drove car for 10 miles around the block to burn off any fuel that might be in the cat and bring it to operating temp. While driving, no check engine light or EPC on. 
Came back home and turned off car. Waited about 2 minutes and started car again. Same thing happened, key at position 2 shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Car started. I turned off the car and tried to restart, same thing, EPC and check engine w/ furl pump priming. I will wait for about an hour and see if the car will start again after sitting for a longer period of time.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (waabaah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *waabaah* »_
so..is square 1 still still saying that your not hearing your fuel pump prime? if so then climb under the car and check for power at the fuel pump. if you have power but no fuel pump priming then its a bad fuel pump.
or you can jump the relay and provide power to the fuel pump. if you dont hear the fuel pump when you supply power to it then bad fuel pump. only bad thing about this is yoru not checking grounds but the chances of yoru fuel pump ground going bad is very slim

Fuel pump is brand new from the VW dealer (too expensive at $294 after tax, included some rubber washer).
I am unable to check for power since I do not have the tools or electrical knowledge, BUT i am starting to think that nothing is wrong with my fuel pump reply and fuel pump because before I got these new parts from the dealer, I went under the dash board and took out the (Original) fuel pump reply and re-installed it. After re-installing, I heard the fuel pump priming. Bought the fuel pump relay because it was cheap guess ($55.xx).








I am starting to think that something is cutting off fuel to my engine since the ASR light is preventing from starting the car. I know while driving, when the ASR light comes on, it was suppose to cut fuel to the engine. Someone correct me if I am wrong. 
This guy here has almost an identical problem (Same car, same year, same engine code, same model and edition):
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4647756



_Modified by MarkusWolf at 11:03 AM 11-15-2009_


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

****UPDATE***11/15/09 Approx. 11:30 am*
key at position 2 shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Car started. I turned off the car and tried to restart, same thing, EPC and check engine w/ furl pump priming. Drove a couple of blocks and the Engine Light is now on. I have no access to a VAG. Can it be the crank sensor???


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

Exactly the same situation here. I have made a post but no answer. I also have no access to vag. Does this have to do with the Throttle position sensor or camshaft position sensor? 
I don't get power past the fuel pump relay but still happening. 
I am really watching this post because my car is in the garage now with this same problem.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

****UPDATE***11/15/09 Approx. 7:00 pm*
Crank Position Senor replaced. Check Engine Light disappeared after installation of crank senor.
Key at Position 2 still shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Starts every time throughout the day, so for. We will see tomorrow morning. 
Got to find someone w/ a VAG Com to see what the stored codes are.
Now I have spent money on a fuel pump relay and fuel pump that I did not even need. Anyone interested in them for cheap?


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_ Does this have to do with the Throttle position sensor or camshaft position sensor? 
I don't get power past the fuel pump relay but still happening. 


Crank senor has nothing to do with the senors you have mentioned. A guy on the forum told me that the crank sensor tells the ECU to send the spark to the ignition coils so the spark plugs can ignite the fuel. With a bad crank sensor, it prevented a spark the ignition coils. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

I checked my crank position sensor. I am not getting any power to the socket. I am checking my relay again. How's the car doing? Any problems?
Is it now starting repeatedly?


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_I checked my crank position sensor. I am not getting any power to the socket. I am checking my relay again. How's the car doing? Any problems?
Is it now starting repeatedly?

****UPDATE***11/16/09 Approx. 1:00 pm*
This morning, Key at Position 2 still shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Car starts.
Drive to work and hit a "bumpy" part of the road. EPC light flashed once. Continued to drive. At a red light, car dies. Re-started fine. Continue to drive to work.

Will update again after work.


----------



## wolfsburg2617 (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

you've got a ****ty lead somewhere or bad ground that's getting jarred. that's the only thing i can think of. what's the code(s) assoc with the MIL?


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (wolfsburg2617)*

Hopefully, I will get the car scanned tomorrow then I will give my codes. It's not with a VAG but with a generic diagnostic scanner. Anyway we will see what comes up tomorrow. 
I am keeping my eye on this thread as i really your help.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (wolfsburg2617)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wolfsburg2617* »_you've got a ****ty lead somewhere or bad ground that's getting jarred. that's the only thing i can think of. what's the code(s) assoc with the MIL?

Started to think the same thing when I went over bumps. I will go over the same "bumpy" part of the road tomorrow on the way to work and see if I can duplicate the incident re: EPC. On the way home, no CEL nor EPC.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_Hopefully, I will get the car scanned tomorrow then I will give my codes. It's not with a VAG but with a generic diagnostic scanner. Anyway we will see what comes up tomorrow. 
I am keeping my eye on this thread as i really your help.









When you get your car scanned, even though it is only the OBII, please post. At least we can get some idea as to the direction to look at. 
****UPDATE***11/16/09 Approx. 8:45 pm*
Key at Position 2 still shows EPC light and check engine light w/ fuel pump priming. Car starts.
Drive to the supermarket. Done shopping, start car. Car dies. Re-started fine. Continue to drive home. No other issues. Need to find a VAG Com.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

****UPDATE***11/17/09 Approx. 10:00 am*
Key at Position 2 shows ASR light w/o fuel pump priming. Car cranks but does not start. Back to square 1.
VW is a piece of SH!t.


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

Sorry from the problems Markus. I have not put mine on the road yet still in the shop, my car left me high and dry--so I am not putting it on the road until it cranks every time. The generic scanner did not work but the mechanic took it to get it scanned somewhere else. I will know tomorrow. I will let you know what I find.
So you have changed the crank position sensor, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, anything else? I asked the mechanic to check the relay again and he said my relay was fine.


----------



## Knight 04 (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*

My car is sitting in the Driveway with the same problem. I have replaced the Fuel Filter today and still doesn't start. I will see what lights show when I try to start it tmw. I will be checking this post a lot to figure out what to do wit mine. 
Edit: When I attempt to start it the EPC, CEL and Battery lights appear.


_Modified by Knight 04 at 9:45 PM 11-17-2009_


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_
So you have changed the crank position sensor, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, anything else? I asked the mechanic to check the relay again and he said my relay was fine.


That is all I have changed.


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

Latest: None of the diagnostic tools are registering. All are reading error. I am not with the mechanic so I don't know why. They feel my computer or control unit as they call it is not reading properly. The mechanic has used his diagnostic tool on my car before and it read right so there seems to be some problem.
Well let you know more soon...


----------



## girth brooks (Mar 2, 2009)

*FV-QR*

you need a vag com. is there no one in your area that has one?


----------



## 94golfjari (Jan 2, 2009)

where is the fuel pump relay?Manual say's under the hood,but it's not,somebody said it was above the fuse panel,but which one is it?
I have the same problem by the way


----------



## 94golfjari (Jan 2, 2009)

If nothing else works,gonna have to do what i did with my old truck..Run a power wire from the battery to the fuel pump witha toggle switch in between..works every time.


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

Markus,
Any news on the car? Mine is still getting worked on. Did you get a chance to check it with a vag-com? What is the latest?


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (girth brooks)*

There are some, but they flake out. I don't understand why they flake, especially when you are going to pay them.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: (94golfjari)*


_Quote, originally posted by *94golfjari* »_where is the fuel pump relay?Manual say's under the hood,but it's not,somebody said it was above the fuse panel,but which one is it?
I have the same problem by the way

Under the dashboard on the left side. You need to unscrew it the bottom part of bashboard to get to it. It is relay number 409. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_Markus,
Any news on the car? Mine is still getting worked on. Did you get a chance to check it with a vag-com? What is the latest?









****UPDATE***11/17/09 Approx. 1:00 pm*
Key at Position 2 shows ASR light w/o fuel pump priming. Car cranks but does not start. 
Decided to call this VW Tech (Works at the dealer) I bring my car to sometimes to come down and VAG my car for $$. He said he was going to get off work at 5:00 pm. Anyhow, he was a no show. 
****UPDATE***11/18/09 Approx. 1:00 pm*
Call same VW Tech who was a "no show" on 11/17/09 if he was going to come down to VAG my car. He said he would come today after whatever he had to do and will call me before 5:00 pm. Rather than wait like I did yesterday for a "no show," I decided to to call and confirm that he is actually going to come down and VAG my car. He said he could not come down. **He could at least told me (at least call me rather than me call him) he could not do it (despite the understanding that I was going to pay him for his time)** 
So know, *I have wasted two (2) for nothing. * This VW Tech is a Vortex Member. Not saying anything negative, but just saying that some people should be a little more considerate of others. 
****UPDATE***11/18/09 Approx. 5:00 pm*
Decided to call this "person" who is know in the VW community. So I do not want to say who at this time. On the phone seems pretty "arrogant" and GUARANTEES that he can tell EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG. Gave the speech of NOT just scanning my car BUT diagnosing my car, etc. Anyhow, comes highly recommended. 
In person he is pretty cool and very knowledgeable (7:45 pm). I am impressed. Can't judge someone on the phone. 
He tried to VAG my car, but said there was no communication w/ my ecm. He has to get the "shop's" ecm to put in my car to continue the diagnostic. 
Decided to get my car towed to his house do so he can diagnose it the following day.

****UPDATE***11/19/09 Approx. 9:00 pm*
Tried to call him (9:00 pm since he does all his side work after 7:00 pm) to see if he was around so that I can get my parking pass for my work from my car and to pay him the balance of $5 I owe him (he did not have change the other night). He did not answer. Ok, no problem. Don't want him to think I am rushing him or anything.
Now just waiting. If I cannot get this resolved, I will have it towed to a shop and depending on what is actually wrong with the car, I may just want to fix and take it back to stock. I am tired on VW bullsh!t. Just want to sell it now.
The Japenese cars I have owned NEVER EVER has these kinds of problems. They were worry free and the engines are bullet proof. The only other German car I owned was a BMW (when I was a kid) that I BEAT the sh!t out of and it never failed. That BMW took so much abuse from me, but kept on running.
Now that I am older I am pretty much conservative now (not abusing the car I own), but apparently, my VW cannot handle it.








Sorry for the rant.


----------



## Knight 04 (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

*I understand with wanting to get rid of the VW. Mine is still sitting in the driveway not starting. I went to the Dealer and talked to a Technician and described whats wrong with mine and he said it sounds like the Cam Position sensor so I will be replacing it in the morning and hope that the car starts. Now the question is if this works do I still keep the car or get rid of it and get something else. * 


_Modified by Knight 04 at 2:48 AM 11-21-2009_


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

Well I got a call from my mechanic this morning. They changed the control unit and now everything works fine. As I mentioned before the diagnostic machine was not communicating with my ECU. So they replaced it. Cracked my window though but they are replacing that. 
Hope this works. Should get the car back today or Monday.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (Knight 04)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Knight 04* »_ *I understand with wanting to get rid of the VW. Mine is still sitting in the driveway not starting. I went to the Dealer and talked to a Technician and described whats wrong with mine and he said it sounds like the Cam Position sensor so I will be replacing it in the morning and hope that the car starts. Now the question is if this works do I still keep the car or get rid of it and get something else. * 

_Modified by Knight 04 at 2:48 AM 11-21-2009_

My suggestion is get the car VAG'ed first before you do anything. The crank sensor is about $80'ish at the dealer.
My mistake was replacing parts on my car before getting it VAG'ed, which cost me more in the long run.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_Well I got a call from my mechanic this morning. They changed the control unit and now everything works fine. As I mentioned before the diagnostic machine was not communicating with my ECU. So they replaced it. 


Do you mind me asking how much did/will it cost you, if they told you over the phone when they called you?
Ya, my guy says the same regarding the non-communication w/ ECM. Still waiting on him to get back to me. 

Glad to hear your problems has pretty much been resolved.
Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by MarkusWolf at 9:31 AM 11-21-2009_


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_Well I got a call from my mechanic this morning. They changed the control unit and now everything works fine. As I mentioned before the diagnostic machine was not communicating with my ECU. 


****UPDATE***11/21/09 Approx. 4:45 pm*
Bought ECM from a dismantler.
Replaced old ECM with new ECM. Car starts. VAG'ed car and perform tests. No faults and no codes. Everything passed. Perform throttle body alignment. 
*Only one thing remains: Key in position 2 shows ALL lights on (Normal), but when all the lights go off one by one, the only lights left are EPC Light, Check Engine Light and battery light BEFORE starting. I wonder if this is NORMAL?*
Can anyone with an MK4 tell if this is normal? I would appreciate it! Thanks in advance. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by MarkusWolf at 4:59 PM 11-21-2009_


----------



## Knight 04 (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

*I think that is what happen to mine. The ECM went. I'll be taking it to the shop for them to look at it and fix whatever is wrong with the car on Monday morning. I wonder how much this will run me.*


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (Knight 04)*

Dumb question but I don't pretend to be a mechanic: What is the difference in the ECU and ECM? Which is near the front windscreen? What is the cost for a ECM?


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (Knight 04)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Knight 04* »_ *I think that is what happen to mine. The ECM went. I'll be taking it to the shop for them to look at it and fix whatever is wrong with the car on Monday morning. I wonder how much this will run me.* 

Best thing for you, I would say, find a VAG first before anything to make sure it is your ECU.
If you must bring it to a shop, then hopefully, you have AAA. If not, check your insurance company and see if you have towing. If not, then maybe you have Verizon Wirless. Call them and tell them you want to add roadside assistance to your plan (it is $3.00 per month). Wait two full days (because there is a wait time to use it).
Depending where you are, shop to scan will probably cost you $80. After scan they will tell you what they "think" is wrong w/ it. Then you choose to leave at the shop so they can fix it. If leave it at the shop, they usually apply the $80 to the total bill after they finish repairing your car.
Breakdown:
Towing: Free? or pay?
Scan: Average $80 from a shop. (Find someone in your area for free or better priced than a shop. At least it will poinit you in the right diretiion).
ECU: Depends where they get it from. Junk yard, dismantler, dealer, etc.
Labor/Install: Depends on shop's hourly rate.
For me: Tow was through insurance. Scan was $50 (because he could not pinpoint the issue on my car. He dropped it from $80). Part was $135 from dismantler. Labor was $50 for install of part, rescan of car, tests for code/faults, throttle body alignment, etc.
My total cost was $235 (but does not include all the money I threw on fuel pump, fuel pump relay, crank sensor, etc., which were not even the problem). Hope this helps.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_Dumb question but I don't pretend to be a mechanic: What is the difference in the ECU and ECM? Which is near the front windscreen? What is the cost for a ECM?


ECU = ECM


_Modified by MarkusWolf at 10:10 AM 11-22-2009_


----------



## Knight 04 (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MarkusWolf* »_
Best thing for you, I would say, find a VAG first before anything to make sure it is your ECU.
If you must bring it to a shop, then hopefully, you have AAA. If not, check your insurance company and see if you have towing. If not, then maybe you have Verizon Wirless. Call them and tell them you want to add roadside assistance to your plan (it is $3.00 per month). Wait two full days (because there is a wait time to use it).
Depending where you are, shop to scan will probably cost you $80. After scan they will tell you what they "think" is wrong w/ it. Then you choose to leave at the shop so they can fix it. If leave it at the shop, they usually apply the $80 to the total bill after they finish repairing your car.
Breakdown:
Towing: Free? or pay?
Scan: Average $80 from a shop. (Find someone in your area for free or better priced than a shop. At least it will poinit you in the right diretiion).
ECU: Depends where they get it from. Junk yard, dismantler, dealer, etc.
Labor/Install: Depends on shop's hourly rate.
For me: Tow was through insurance. Scan was $50 (because he could not pinpoint the issue on my car. He dropped it from $80). Part was $135 from dismantler. Labor was $50 for install of part, rescan of car, tests for code/faults, throttle body alignment, etc.
My total cost was $235 (but does not include all the money I threw on fuel pump, fuel pump relay, crank sensor, etc., which were not even the problem). Hope this helps.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
ECU = ECM

_Modified by MarkusWolf at 10:10 AM 11-22-2009_

Thank you. It helps a lot. Let's hope I get good news tomorrow about it.


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (Knight 04)*

Got the car back today and no check engine/ASR lights, car starts fine. Well the ECU or the ECM whatever apparently was the issue. It cost me about $315 but I am back on the road. 







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (CGJet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CGJet* »_ *Only one thing remains: Key in position 2 shows ALL lights on (Normal), but when all the lights go off one by one, the only lights left are EPC Light, Check Engine Light and battery light BEFORE starting. I wonder if this is NORMAL?* 

What about the above? 
Do you still have the EPC, Check Engine Light and Battery Light BEFORE you crank/start you car? 
Glad to see you got your car back! 
Thanks.


_Modified by MarkusWolf at 4:15 PM 11-24-2009_


----------



## elf458 (Oct 24, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

MarkusWolf, where are you located? and how much are you after?
im after a fuel pump, sadly my mk2 20vt has no VAG com facilities so throwing money to swim in the dark is my only option.
ahh. im guessing your <<< is where your located.


_Modified by elf458 at 11:08 AM 11-25-2009_


----------



## CGJet (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

Yes I have both before starting but they immediately go out.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (elf458)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elf458* »_MarkusWolf, where are you located? and how much are you after?
im after a fuel pump, sadly my mk2 20vt has no VAG com facilities so throwing money to swim in the dark is my only option.
ahh. im guessing your <<< is where your located.

_Modified by elf458 at 11:08 AM 11-25-2009_

I am not sure what you asking, but I am in Los Angeles/Glendale, CA. If you want the fuel pump, I will let you have it for $150, which is half the cost of new. I can deliver if you are near, meet or you can come over. Up to you. Let me know. Thanks.


----------



## elf458 (Oct 24, 2009)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

cheers but your location is not a joke like mine lol. i am half way round the world bro.. im in England!


----------



## jayj6996 (Nov 21, 2009)

honestly, if I'm diagnosing a no start, the first thing i look for during the crank is a MIL or CEL. From there its just a matter of power, ground or the ECM itself. Sorry to hear that you had to load the parts gun on full automatic fire and sprayed down the car before a reliable diagnosis.










_Modified by jayj6996 at 8:44 AM 11-28-2009_


----------



## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

When the used ECU was installed in your 01 AWW 1.8 l turbo did the shop need an immobilizer code to get the ECU to work? Or did the shop just perform a ECU coding and throttle body adaptation? I am asking this question because some early 2.0 AEG engines can accept replacement ECUs without inputting an immobilizer code. I am wondering if the 2001
AWW engine ECUs operate in a similar manner?


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: (jayj6996)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jayj6996* »_honestly, if I'm diagnosing a no start, the first thing i look for during the crank is a MIL or CEL. From there its just a matter of power, ground or the ECM itself. Sorry to hear that you had to load the parts gun on full automatic fire and sprayed down the car before a reliable diagnosis.









_Modified by jayj6996 at 8:44 AM 11-28-2009_

I did not have a VAG and the people who said they would come to VAG my car flaked out on me, even though I was going to pay them. 
I did throw a lot of money down the drain.







Now I am thinking of buying a VAG or just waiting another year and going to sell the car. I have not decided yet. 
Thanks.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (Peter Badore)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Badore* »_When the used ECU was installed in your 01 AWW 1.8 l turbo did the shop need an immobilizer code to get the ECU to work? Or did the shop just perform a ECU coding and throttle body adaptation? I am asking this question because some early 2.0 AEG engines can accept replacement ECUs without inputting an immobilizer code. I am wondering if the 2001
AWW engine ECUs operate in a similar manner? 

Funny you bring this up. When I brought in the ECU I picked up, the guy installed it. I told him that I "heard" that the ECU was a "plug n play" for my year since it was one of the earlier immobilizers. He said no, he would have to adapt it to the cluster and engine to work and would demonstrate the immobilizer. Well, he turned the key and the car started. He was surprised.
Then he brought the car to operating temperature, performed faults tests, checked for codes and then throttle adaption. 
Had I known this, I could have done this myself. My next part of throwing at the dart board was an ECU.
Like the previous poster said, having a reliable diagnosis goes a long way. 
So now my chip is in my old ECU and my wallet is thinner.
Just happy my car is running. Not having a car in Los Angeles is very difficult. Everything is like 10 miles away since LA is soooooooooooo spread out.


----------



## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

Did you write down the part number on the used ECU that you bought? Also even though
VAG-COM (Yes, I know they have renamed it) from Ross Tech is expensive it is well worth the 
cost if you plan to do your own work.


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (Peter Badore)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Badore* »_Did you write down the part number on the used ECU that you bought? Also even though
VAG-COM (Yes, I know they have renamed it) from Ross Tech is expensive it is well worth the 
cost if you plan to do your own work. 

Thanks. I just wished I bought one of the Ross Tech doggles when I had a chance for a decently priced used one last year.
The only thing I remember from the ECU was that it was a "DL" at the end of the part number. It was from a 2001.5 Jetta Wolfsburg 1.8T 5 speed. Engine Code: AWW. It was basically from an exact/identical car as mine.


----------



## Knight 04 (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

*Update: I got a call from the shop. It wasn't good news. It turns out my cylinder head has two hairline cracks and two of the cylinders are seized. Now I gotta think of something to do because it's looking at a hefty bill to repair it. *


----------



## MarkusWolf (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (Knight 04)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Knight 04* »_ *Update: I got a call from the shop. It wasn't good news. It turns out my cylinder head has two hairline cracks and two of the cylinders are seized. Now I gotta think of something to do because it's looking at a hefty bill to repair it. * 

Wow, that sounds like it is really is going to be expensive.
I would hook you up with the guy I bought my ECU from, but thinking about it, the shipping would probably kill any kind of deal you may get.
I suggest looking for someone local for the parts and then find someone on the Tex who works at the dealer in your area. Maybe he will give you a good deal on installing the part as a side job.
Once again, sorry to hear. 


_Modified by MarkusWolf at 4:54 PM 11-29-2009_


----------



## 55belairx2 (Feb 8, 2010)

*Re: Car Won't Start - Fuel Pump/Fuel Pump Relay/immobilizer/ECM ??? (MarkusWolf)*

MarkusWolf, I live in the area, who did you use to vag your car? Thanks!


----------



## dependent (Jan 4, 2011)

there are two sensors right in front of the thermostat housing if they are bad then they are telling the car that the temperature of the car is either -100 or +300 degree, something like that for example. I knot the post is old but still


----------



## ptatohed (Jul 23, 2010)

MW, this thread is very helpful, thanks. I have an '01.5 Audi S4 (B5). I am having very similar experiences as you had. 

Here's the thread that I started on AZ.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-won-t-start-after-battery-died-and-recharged

Post #18 with pictures of the lights on my dash when the car will/will not start.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-recharged?p=10099203&viewfull=1#post10099203

Should I forget about monkeying with relays and such, and go straight to replacing the ECM? Will the new ECM be plug and play (if I get the same year/transmission as mine)?

Thanks.


----------



## jalisco (Sep 1, 2010)

Have you solve the problem because mine start to doing this 😔 my car is a 05 jetta GLI with these mods Stage 2+ Unitronic 440cc injectors FrankenTurbo and all the requirements for the stage 2+


----------



## ptatohed (Jul 23, 2010)

jalisco said:


> Have you solve the problem because mine start to doing this &#55357;&#56852; my car is a 05 jetta GLI with these mods Stage 2+ Unitronic 440cc injectors FrankenTurbo and all the requirements for the stage 2+


I had to replace my ECU.


----------



## jalisco (Sep 1, 2010)

ptatohed said:


> I had to replace my ECU.


Ahh! Thanks I have to do that then  while Im there I may just buy one with Immo defeated and some other goodies 😉


----------



## ptatohed (Jul 23, 2010)

jalisco said:


> Ahh! Thanks I have to do that then  while Im there I may just buy one with Immo defeated and some other goodies &#55357;&#56841;


Yup, I took the opportunity to buy a Stage 2 ECU (and exhaust) and go from Stage 1 to 2.


----------



## jalisco (Sep 1, 2010)

Oh I see I found a company who can swap all the information that I have to a different ECU that way I dont have to pay for the tune that I have already 😉 what could cause a ECU to go bad anyways? Also does a Bad Relay can cause that too?


----------

