# MSD 6AL, worth installing??



## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

I just bought another old VW it came with a lot of junk parts and a few gems among it all was an MSD 6AL ignition unit. I'd like to here from those of you out there who've tried aftermarket ignition systems, should I install this thing or put it up on ebay?


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## der_panzer (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (ABA Scirocco)*

It's a good box. I use a 6A on my VW (same thing, less the rev limiter) with a MSD Blaster 2 coil.
You'll need to obtain an MSD Tach Adapter (MSD # 8910). Without the adapter, your tach and / or engine electronics may act up. My 16v tach won't work without the adapter. Summit Racing is a good place to get one if you don't have an MSD dealer nearby.
http://store.summitracing.com/...D8910
If you're using a knock sensor ignition setup (with the associated fuel-cut rev limiter), you could disable the disgusting fuel cut rev limiter and use the much smoother ignition rev limiter in the 6AL.
The whole setup is easy enough to install, and it feels like to me that my VW benefits from using it. I'd keep it if I were you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Finding a place to mount the unit is the hard part (mine lives in the little gap between my CIS distro and the fender on my Golf)


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (ABA Scirocco)*

I run the Crane Hi-6... idle is a bit smoother...and of course no worries about spark at high boost... easy to wire in as well... I'd recommend upgrading ignition wires...


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## WackyWabbitRacer (Apr 24, 2001)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (der_panzer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *der_panzer* »_You'll need to obtain an MSD Tach Adapter (MSD # 8910). Without the adapter, your tach and / or engine electronics may act up. 

The MSD 6AL is a good multi-spark box, and it has a tach connector on it. With a stock VW tach, I don't know if you will need an adapter or not as I use an Autometer tach with the MSD 6AL.
The MSD 6AL is fairly pricey today, and I would recommend that you keep it, if you have any future plans for usage of a multi-spark box. 
Several weeks ago, I posted a wiring diagram in the 8V forum for the MSD 6AL in conjunction with a VW Hall-Effect distributor and its control module. Regards, WWR.


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## der_panzer (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (WackyWabbitRacer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WackyWabbitRacer* »_The MSD 6AL is a good multi-spark box, and it has a tach connector on it. With a stock VW tach, I don't know if you will need an adapter or not as I use an Autometer tach with the MSD 6AL. 

You DO need the MSD adapter to use the factory tach (and possibly with the ECU). I had misfire problems running a MSD 6A on a CIS-E system without the adapter.
The adapter is simply a transformer that connects in parallel with the MSD input. It simulates an ignition coil (the MSD's input is high impedance - it has little resistive load, and no inductive load) It puts an inductive load back on the factory ignition module output (and thus the tach input). 
With an aftermarket tach, you can just connect to the tach terminal, like you say.


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## der_panzer (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (Peter Tong)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_I run the Crane Hi-6... idle is a bit smoother...and of course no worries about spark at high boost... easy to wire in as well... I'd recommend upgrading ignition wires...

Sure the HI-6 is a great box, but he's got a 6AL already.
Upgrading the wires is an absolute must! (unless you want to get the HOLY CRAP knocked out of you by leaky wires) Don't ask how I know that








hahahaha


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (der_panzer)*

Hi Panzer,
Sorry what I mean was that both do the same thing, and both wire in the same, so if he has the 6A to just go for it... I went with 7mm magnecors on my setup - they work well...


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## der_panzer (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (Peter Tong)*

If I were buying a new box, I'd probably grab the Hi-6 instead. I'm with you on that!








For wires, I just used a universal set of Taylor Spiro Pro 8mm wires (8 wires + coil wire, put them together yourself.) Now I have a good set of wires and a whole set of spares


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## D_Bat (Jan 21, 2002)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (der_panzer)*

Good info. I was looking into buying a 6al too. I just bought the MSD Blaster 2 coil (20 dollars used) and new 8mm wires. Just waiting to see how much i can get the 6al for. Good info.


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## autobahn 69 (Aug 11, 2003)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (D_Bat)*

Not trying to hijack the post, but I am hoping the wiring wizards will impart knowledge in a skillful manner rather than a beatdown scolding. 
WHen I bought my first golf last year, (I had only owned aircooleds up until this point) I was running Digifant and a 6a box was hardwired in and the Blaster 2 was part of the setup. The car ran great and I had a 3A bottom end to really keep up. After doing some reading, I ran across that after 3000 rpm or so the MSD acted more like a conventional ignition and the multiple spark was only good for below 3000 rpm. I will find the direct quote, but it is from the Performance Tuning book for VW. 
I also had a conversation with a guy down at my local parts store, DIP in Portland, OR. HE knew a guy running high 12's with a stock VW igntion. And VW ignitions have also run on the hot side.
Now I know that with installing a new ignition box is definitely an upgrade over and ignition that may be 15-20 years old by the time you get it. 
BUt......What makes the multiple spark discharge boxes that much better, especially if they are not able to keep up their multilple rate at over 3000k?


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (autobahn 69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *autobahn 69* »_Not trying to hijack the post, but I am hoping the wiring wizards will impart knowledge in a skillful manner rather than a beatdown scolding. 
0k? 

No flames here, it's a valid question. It boils down to this, what can the MSD system or other similar systems do for me that the stock ignition system can't? Persumably, they deliver a hotter and more powerful spark but does that necessarily translate into better performance? And if so, under what conditions? I don't know, that's one of the main reasons I posted my original question.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (ABA Scirocco)*

If the stock ign system is not acting up, runs great, and does not misfire under load then anything spent on the ign. system will not add to much of anything. All the combustion chamber needs is some kind of spark. Some of the times, when the ign. system is at fault, people install stuff like the MSD and they notice a large improvement. It's not the cause of MSD but the fact the ign. system was not working correctly in the begining.
MSD and most others only have spark at the lower RPM's and I believe it's because they can not deliver that multiple spark at a higher RPM because of the less time it has to make those sparks. 
MSD and others are good stuff and might be overkill for some of us but the point I am trying to make is if the stock stuff is working great you will most likely see no improvement in power or driveablity.


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## autobahn 69 (Aug 11, 2003)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (Butcher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_. system is at fault, people install stuff like the MSD and they notice a MSD and most others only have spark at the lower RPM's and I believe it's because they can not deliver that multiple spark at a higher RPM because of the less time it has to make those sparks. 


This was my understanding with MSD. Even with Multiple discharge it could not keep up with the rotations of the distributor. Has anybody dealt with the Allison/Crane setup where the contact points are taken out and replaced with LED's. The theory behind it is that one led is always on rotation and clearly makes a signal with Led's on the outside of the rotating mass, and never miss a signal even when dirty because they are reading each other's LED signal.


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## der_panzer (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (autobahn 69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *autobahn 69* »_Has anybody dealt with the Allison/Crane setup where the contact points are taken out and replaced with LED's. 

I've dealt with Mallory Unilite setups on Mopars. They are basically the same thing. LED optical triggering. It always worked very well!


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: MSD 6AL, worth installing?? (der_panzer)*

I just came across this at http://www.pelicanparts.com/te...l.htm :

_Quote »_ The MSD ignition systems combine the concept of capacitive discharge ignition (made popular in the late 60's and early 70's) with multiple spark discharge. On a simple point and coil ignition system, while the points are closed, the coil builds up a magnetic field in its core by allowing current to flow at battery voltage into the coil wires which are wrapped around the ferric core, like an electro-magnet. When the points open, the magnetic field in the core of the coil collapses and rapidly introduces a strong, high voltage current into the output side of the coil, which becomes your plug spark. As RPM goes up, the charge time of the coil between sparks goes down, as a result, the spark energy is lower as RPM increases. Capacitive discharge solves this problem by providing a very quick higher voltage charge to the primary side of the coil which is the same at all RPM levels.
Multiple Spark Discharge helps to provide complete combustion at speeds up to 3000 RPM by issuing several sparks during each combustion stroke. The number of sparks varies, but fills up 20 degrees of crank rotation. Above 3000 RPM, there is not enough time for multiple sparks, so the MSD sy! stems then provide a single high power spark. The result of multiple sparks is easier starting, smoother idling, and smooth, crisp, powerful acceleration. An added bonus of more complete ignition is cleaner emissions.


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## Magic__Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

Question. Just installed a msd 6al on my high compression 84 gti. I'm running an autometer tach. Before I had it wired to the negitive side of the coil along with the red/black wire. 
So which one do I wire to the tach signal on the box? 
And do I need that tach adapter? If so I'm confused at to what model I need. 


Thanks


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## nairmac (Jan 22, 2004)

Magic__Mike said:


> Question. Just installed a msd 6al on my high compression 84 gti. I'm running an autometer tach. Before I had it wired to the negitive side of the coil along with the red/black wire.
> So which one do I wire to the tach signal on the box?
> And do I need that tach adapter? If so I'm confused at to what model I need.
> 
> ...


You'll need this one-

http://www.msdignition.com/Products...rs/8920_-_Tach_Adapter,_Magnetic_Trigger.aspx


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## Magic__Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

Would not running this adapter make the car not run?
Or is it simply to make the tach work. 

Thanks for the help.


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## nairmac (Jan 22, 2004)

I used the adapter as the signal for the fuel pump. So doing it that way, without the adapter it would not run.


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## Magic__Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

hmmm i guess im just confused... long day.
i wonder if its just my msd box thats not working correctly.


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

On anything that was close to a streetable NA motor, I don't think there is a benefit to an aftermarket ignition over stock stuff. Start moving the CR up, or adding boost and that may change, though we never did any testing of that.

I always ran stock stuff on my SCCA improved touring car, but will be moving to LSx coils now that the car is moving to production class, where I will be allowed more freedom to change the fuel/spark systems and computer - more to gain coil on plug than to get away from the stock coil. 

The VW/Bosch stuff is good.


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