# Practically permanent fix to an old problem: failing Haldex pump



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

*About six years ago, I experienced an intermittent problem with my AWD: I wasn't getting any rear-wheel drive traction in snow. When the car was put up on the lift and tested, there was tire rotation at the rear. Very strange.

The error I might have received at that time was "01155 - Clutch 04-00 - Mechanical Malfunction," although I seem to remember the word "intermittent" in there somewhere.

After a lot of guessing, I finally determined the Haldex oil precharge pump wasn't functioning. This pump comes on whenever the key is on, and should be faintly audible while under the car with the engine off. A complete DIY for the pump is located here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...pre-charge-pump-removal-disassembly-PIC-HEAVY










There are two reasons why the pump fails: (1) because it's on all the time whenever the key is on; and (2) it uses a brush motor. Here are the specifications for the pump (obtained through resourcefulness and persistence):


















In addition to these electrical characteristics, the physical characteristics are that it is 34mm wide and 65mm long; the shaft diameter is 3.30mm; the inner diameter of the housing that the motor must fit into is 39mm. The yellow lead positive, the black lead is negative, and the direction of rotation is clock-wise when facing the output shaft.

Certainly, you can replace this pump by buying a new one from Exorbitant Charges for Shipping Tuning ("ECS Tuning") for $780 + absurd shipping (here), and it will fail again in another five years (if you plan to keep the car that long). Or, you can try my solution, which is to replace the brush motor with a model 3153K024BRE brushless motor with identical physical specifications. It runs on 24VDC (so, I guess it has been running at half of its rated speed), and I sourced it from Faulhaber / Micromo Electronics.

This fix has worked flawlessly for the last six years. Because brushless motors experience no brush and commutator erosion, the only parts that can wear out from use are the two ball bearings.

I then set out to find out what the mystery Haldex fluid is, so that I didn't have to keep paying $$ to the dealer for it. Based on numerous Blackstone analysis done on the fluid by others over the years, I found that could replace the fluid with exactly 220ml of Amsoil Powershift ATF and 50ml of Amsoil Slip-Lock additive. This mixture results in a fully synthetic fluid that has bite and does not produce clutch chatter. I've been running it for the last six years, also.*


----------



## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

Great info! :beer:


----------



## vr6fanatic (Apr 5, 2003)

Great job and thanks for the update! One of the links are Asian. Is there any other links to translate?


----------



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

vr6fanatic said:


> Great job and thanks for the update! One of the links are Asian. Is there any other links to translate?


Yeah, I can't find the part number on the MicroMo Web site, but if you Google the part number, you get a bunch of Asian (both Chinese and Japanese, apparently) sites. I provided that link only so that you could have a picture of the motor. I did this work six years ago in March/April of 2007, and didn't take any DIY photos (sorry).


----------



## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

Awesome info, well done sir :thumbup:

Did you have to remove the haldex unit from the car to replace the pump?


----------



## vr6fanatic (Apr 5, 2003)

esoxlucios said:


> Yeah, I can't find the part number on the MicroMo Web site, but if you Google the part number, you get a bunch of Asian (both Chinese and Japanese, apparently) sites. I provided that link only so that you could have a picture of the motor. I did this work six years ago in March/April of 2007, and didn't take any DIY photos (sorry).


No worries. great job!!


----------



## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

you are a saint in the TT community! Nice job.


----------



## vr6fanatic (Apr 5, 2003)

toy4two2 said:


> you are a saint in the TT community! Nice job.


Sounds like an epidemic with this pump! Volvo guys are having issues as well.


----------



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

Dowski12 said:


> Awesome info, well done sir :thumbup:
> 
> Did you have to remove the haldex unit from the car to replace the pump?



Nope. The Vortex DIY that I linked to mentions this on page 2, I believe. But, short answer is "No," you don't have to remove the Haldex.

You will have to carefully remove the motor and pump/gears assembly (also pictured in the aforesaid link), and you will need to clean those parts carefully, and you will need to replace the seal (discussed in the DIY thread).


----------



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

vr6fanatic said:


> Sounds like an epidemic with this pump! Volvo guys are having issues as well.


If, for whatever reason, you cannot source the brushless motor, you can attempt to salvage the brush motor by taking it to a high-end hobby store. Although brushless motors have been in vogue for the last 8 or more years in R/C cars (like the eMaxx), there they may still have a lathe and a qualified technician who can replace the brushes and resurface the commutator. It is improbable that an electric motor shop where you might go to get your starter or alternator rewound is willing to work on anything this small — at least that was my experience here in the Twin Cities.

Note, when I attempted to take apart and rebuild the motor, it disintegrated before my eyes. As I recall, there was quite a bit of brittle plastic pieces, and the graphite off the brushes had mixed with oil or grease over several years to form a dense mud all over the internals. If you decide to rebuild the brush motor, do not attempt to take it apart. Find someone who works on small motors (again, usually a R/C shop, although they don't deal in brushed motors anymore), and let them do the work.


----------



## PLAYED TT (Oct 17, 2010)

Nice update:thumbup:


----------



## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Excellent post! :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## vr6fanatic (Apr 5, 2003)

esoxlucios, 

Great job!! Do you have any photos of you installing this new brushless motor together?


----------



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

Bump. I just replaced the broken link images.


----------



## TToxic (Nov 15, 2008)

Great job, thanks for the imfo. :thumbup:


----------



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

I've received a few PMs on this post. My wife has contact with Asian suppliers for unrelated reasons, and I'll see if I can get a supply of these if there's any interest here.


----------



## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

esoxlucios said:


> I've received a few PMs on this post. My wife has contact with Asian suppliers for unrelated reasons, and I'll see if I can get a supply of these if there's any interest here.


Do it :beer::beer:


----------



## hunTTsvegas (Aug 27, 2012)

esoxlucios said:


> I've received a few PMs on this post. My wife has contact with Asian suppliers for unrelated reasons, and I'll see if I can get a supply of these if there's any interest here.


1) About the only time I'm able to get on Vortex is at work which blocks a lot of external sites (thanks D.O.D.) so what is the cost? 

2) Group buy? 

My Haldex is currently not working because of pump failure so this is priority "eins" on my list.

Thanks!


----------



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

I just called the American supplier (MicroMo in Florida). Very expensive. If I buy ten, it's $240 each. If I buy 100, it's $175 each. And if I put my money up to carry an inventory, I'm going to need to charge a small premium (because my money is tied up indefinitely). Let me know if there's any interest. Also, maybe we can locate a substitute brushless motor with similar size specifications. In any case, it's still cheaper than $700 for a replacement brushed-motor.


----------



## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

esoxlucios said:


> I just called the American supplier (MicroMo in Florida). Very expensive. If I buy ten, it's $240 each. If I buy 100, it's $175 each. And if I put my money up to carry an inventory, I'm going to need to charge a small premium (because my money is tied up indefinitely). Let me know if there's any interest. Also, maybe we can locate a substitute brushless motor with similar size specifications. In any case, it's still cheaper than $700 for a replacement brushed-motor.


Looks like I need to replace my pump... it worked well enough to spin one wheel and then both with some throttle - now it's unresponsive.

Love your idea of a brushless motor - the one link is unreadable and the US supplier doesn't seem to have this pump on their site anymore. Any idea on the cost of one or if they're still supplying them?


----------



## ma2kster (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm embarrassed that i wasn't aware of this common failure before. At 85K, 2006 MK1 TT, i suspect it is time for me to start worrying about losing AWD? I also suspect they didn't improve anything albeit my TT is in the batch of tail-end of MK1 production. Given, the brushless motor referenced above isn't easy to find nowadays, I was looking into ordering a motor from the following ebay seller. It appears to be the OEM manufacturer. Isn't it?
http://www.ebay.com/usr/yourhaldexworks


----------



## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

It's funny, YHW is in the same country as me and I'm still able to order better parts from a supplier in Poland. Shipping is quick too... check out the seller "haldexpart" on eBay. I got a new OEM pump for $50 more than what YHW charges to ship their rebuild kit. Now I'll use the old pump for a brushless motor conversion


----------



## ma2kster (Jun 4, 2010)

All_Euro said:


> It's funny, YHW is in the same country as me and I'm still able to order better parts from a supplier in Poland. Shipping is quick too... check out the seller "haldexpart" on eBay. I got a new OEM pump for $50 more than what YHW charges to ship their rebuild kit. Now I'll use the old pump for a brushless motor conversion


Thanks. I'm also inclining towards the source in Poland via ebay. I wish there was the shaft- seal available separately. My current pump is in good working order. I suspect, a cleanup and thoroughly drying it and replacing a seal would rejuvenate it and help serve many more years.


----------



## pylotwolf (Feb 14, 2020)

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread - I found a source of the Faulhaber brushless motor esoxlucios mentions in his original post They're relatively inexpensive ($49), but the shipping is crazy ($72) as it's coming from overseas. I can order up to 12 of these pumps for the same shipping price - if there are 11 others who want to buy one for their car, let me know, and I'll be happy to order them and re-ship them to you. You would be responsible for shipping from CT to your location as well. I'm also working with the Russian company autorepairkits that has a pump repair kit to make a kit without the commutator and brushes (essentially o-rings, oil seal, new screws, and harness plug), so if you want one of those too, let me know (pricing TBD, but will be less than $33 including shipping). This way the seals and bearings would be replaced and the pump would be like new. Send me a PM and I'll add you to the list.


----------



## IshDog (Oct 26, 2013)

*Pump Removal*

Hey all,
2002 TT ALMS Edition here..

Got the case loose and have been trying to get it past the Damper/Counter Weight. 
Tried using a Crescent Wrench to bend the Damper far enough away to slide out with no luck.
Is it hard to loosen the damper, or is taking the whole rear drive shaft out involved?
Should I put the case back on the pump and try to slide out whole. 
Unfortunately, the pre-charge pump needs a little help too. Heat?
Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Thnx, RS.


----------



## AndreTTi (Mar 3, 2020)

*Yes please*

Hey pylotwolf, I'm definitely interested in getting one of the faulhaber brushless motors... Even if there were 4 or 5 of us, the shipping wouldn't be *that* bad... 

Couple questions:
-are you certain they are the right spec motors? I did some searching and failed miserably. 
-what continent do they ship from? If it's Europe, we might be able to get cheaper shipping through a trusted TT friend in the UK... 
-Do you have anybody else interested so far? 

Thanks.



IshDog: You should be able to disconnect the transverse shaft from the rear diff and just move it slightly out of the way, pump should come out easily then.


----------



## pylotwolf (Feb 14, 2020)

AndreTTi said:


> Hey pylotwolf, I'm definitely interested in getting one of the faulhaber brushless motors... Even if there were 4 or 5 of us, the shipping wouldn't be *that* bad...
> 
> Couple questions:
> -are you certain they are the right spec motors? I did some searching and failed miserably.
> ...


It's the same motor model as the OP posted. Unfortunately I can't get my car up on my lift for a few more weeks to work on it (way too cold here, and working in freezing temps is not my idea of fun) so it'll be a bit before I can verify it against the Haldex on my car. But from the OP's measurements it seems to match, but I will wait before I order them.

I checked the price for shipping locally vs overseas (it is in Europe). Because there is no tax if they ship to the US, it works out to be within a few dollars to ship here vs locally and then having it send over to the US. I have lots of trusted friends over there in various countries but none of the countries I tried to ship to saved more than a few bucks (which would be wasted by reshipping).

Currently there are 5 people interested.


----------



## IshDog (Oct 26, 2013)

*Pump Removed/Replaced*

Forgive me for posting on two threads, however just trying to see if anyone has any further insight before I go and replace the whole read drive.

1. Replaced the control unit.
2. Got the dreadful code, sporadic mechanical clutch failure.
3. Replaced the ground strap/earth wire and tested the functioning of the rear wheels.. they spun on the lift and not under load.
4. Finally got the pump replaced and tested in the rain the other day. Just front wheels spinning.
5. We did the VCDS test on the Haldex system and all was ok. No codes at all.
6. Traction control light goes on when I got on the car.. ABS breaks tested/AWD System test and no codes. Tried getting the wheels to spin with out EPC activated with no luck either.

Is there anything else this awesome community can tell me what to look for before I get under the car myself and replace the whole rear drive of the car with another used unit? 
163K on 2002 ALMS EDITION and don't think car is worth more than 4k.. Sucks to be attached to a fun car!

Thnx, RS


----------



## JoshFerguson (Feb 19, 2020)

you are a saint in the TT community! Nice job.


----------



## Stingray230sx (Jun 9, 2010)

revisited this and i have found this brushless pumpmotor on a swedish site for 110CHF shipped [116$] 

HERE IT IS: https://electrique-automation.com/produit/faulhaber-3153k024bre-servomoteurs-365-mnm/


----------



## Blandowski (Jul 2, 2020)

fngnfgnfgn


----------



## Blandowski (Jul 2, 2020)

mhmghmgmgm


----------



## Blandowski (Jul 2, 2020)

dfbfbffbdbfff


----------



## Blandowski (Jul 2, 2020)

ggegfwegfwefwf


----------



## Blandowski (Jul 2, 2020)

gdhfhdhfhfhhh


----------



## DrewXT (Aug 31, 2020)

Stingray230sx said:


> revisited this and i have found this brushless pumpmotor on a swedish site for 110CHF shipped [116$]
> 
> HERE IT IS: https://electrique-automation.com/produit/faulhaber-3153k024bre-servomoteurs-365-mnm/


Hey mate,

Did this work for you? I've got a Passat Alltrack with a failing Haldex, and if this will do the trick, I'll give it a go...

Cheers


----------



## tt92103 (Nov 23, 2010)

Stingray230sx said:


> revisited this and i have found this brushless pumpmotor on a swedish site for 110CHF shipped [116$]
> 
> HERE IT IS: https://electrique-automation.com/produit/faulhaber-3153k024bre-servomoteurs-365-mnm/



I went to the web site and the motor costs 45CHF (swiss francs) but shipping is 65CHF. So, i bought 3 of them for 200 CHF which was $216.29 on my credit card. I have two for sale, I'm not making any profit on these.

Search Ebay for "Faulhaber 3153K024BRE"


----------



## tt92103 (Nov 23, 2010)

Both motors are sold. I haven't had time to install mine yet... hoping to have time to get to it in a few weeks...


----------



## odiemarqu1999 (Sep 22, 2020)

I just called the American supplier (MicroMo in Florida). Very expensive. If I buy ten, it's $240 each. If I buy 100, it's $175 each. And if I put my money up to carry an inventory, I'm going to need to charge a small premium (because my money is tied up indefinitely). Let me know if there's any interest. Also, maybe we can locate a substitute brushless motor with similar size specifications. In any case, it's still cheaper than $700 for a replacement brushed-motor.


----------



## tt92103 (Nov 23, 2010)

odiemarqu1999 said:


> I just called the American supplier (MicroMo in Florida). Very expensive. If I buy ten, it's $240 each. If I buy 100, it's $175 each. And if I put my money up to carry an inventory, I'm going to need to charge a small premium (because my money is tied up indefinitely). Let me know if there's any interest. Also, maybe we can locate a substitute brushless motor with similar size specifications. In any case, it's still cheaper than $700 for a replacement brushed-motor.


Go to this link:

https://electrique-automation.com/produit/faulhaber-3153k024bre-servomoteurs-365-mnm/

They cost $72 for qty 1, and they discount the price the more you buy. Contact them for volume discount. They ship from Switzerland, when I ordered mine the package arrived 4 days later.


----------



## higahardy (Feb 18, 2009)

Well I just ordered the last one the guy had and it’s going to have to have a ton of modifications to work so I don’t know if the manufacture change the mounting bolt holes and the motor shaft but I’m not sure if this is as good of a fix as the OP said it would be


----------



## Stingray230sx (Jun 9, 2010)

DrewXT said:


> Hey mate,
> 
> Did this work for you? I've got a Passat Alltrack with a failing Haldex, and if this will do the trick, I'll give it a go...
> 
> Cheers


my apologies, i have not been receiving thread notifications, should have ordered one when i first posted.
i am basing my info on the original thread starter, and i haven't tried it yet.
he even breaks down the haldex fluid but that amsoil powershift trans fluid is 30 gal pail minimum, gonna have to see if i can find it in a quart or something, i like the idea of having a surplus on hand to change it then run it and change it again since this TT has 180k miles on its drivetrain and i KNOW the kid i bought this roached out thing from wasn't servicing the haldex so it needs a couple flushes im sure.
project is stalled, still looking for a chinafold exhaust manifold here in the states.
did order one tonite, and it will go in the pile of spares i have been collecting for the TT.
all in with paypal fees it was $129.14 USD


----------



## esoxlucios (Sep 17, 2009)

higahardy said:


> Well I just ordered the last one the guy had and it’s going to have to have a ton of modifications to work so I don’t know if the manufacture change the mounting bolt holes and the motor shaft but I’m not sure if this is as good of a fix as the OP said it would be


I bought one of those off eBay, too, to have as a spare. Same part number, but definitely not the same as what the company provided me way back when. I have no idea if the shaft diameter is the same and whether it’s just a matter of machining the outer body (maybe they added a shroud to better contain the electronics). In any case, I still have the car, and the Haldex still works great.


----------



## Stingray230sx (Jun 9, 2010)

esoxlucios said:


> I bought one of those off eBay, too, to have as a spare. Same part number, but definitely not the same as what the company provided me way back when. I have no idea if the shaft diameter is the same and whether it’s just a matter of machining the outer body (maybe they added a shroud to better contain the electronics). In any case, I still have the car, and the Haldex still works great.


ok, so you bought one of the three that a poster bought, and sold two on ebay? and it was different than what you bought originally? I just purchased one, now i am leery of what i will get...
another question, you mention using Amsoil Powershift trans fluid and the slip additive, i would like this but i cant find the powershift fluid in less than a 5 gal pail....the Super shift is available in quarts would that work?


----------



## tt92103 (Nov 23, 2010)

And I'm the one who bought three and sold the other 2 on Ebay. My Haldex is working, I just bought the pump motor to have as a spare when my pump eventually fails, it was more economical to order more since shipping was so high. I was going to take out my Haldex pump and take a look at it but haven't had time yet, it is not high up on my list of things to work on...


----------



## mdjenkins (Feb 16, 2010)

You bumping this thread reminded me of it. So, I ordered some motors and seals for my brother and I.

I'm planning on practical studies of TT geometry and alignment this spring/summer. Pump rebuilding sounds like a perfect mise. Hopefully I can contribute a success story to this thread at that time.


----------



## Stingray230sx (Jun 9, 2010)

tt92103 said:


> And I'm the one who bought three and sold the other 2 on Ebay. My Haldex is working, I just bought the pump motor to have as a spare when my pump eventually fails, it was more economical to order more since shipping was so high. I was going to take out my Haldex pump and take a look at it but haven't had time yet, it is not high up on my list of things to work on...


thats my issue, i bought a non running project car but with 180k miles and the condition of the car i know there will be issues and the whole drivetrain is coming down for powdercoating.....but i just know that high school kid who ran it into the ground [snapped timing belt] NEVER serviced the haldex so i will be trying to renew it all.


----------



## Stingray230sx (Jun 9, 2010)

this is the pic on their webpage, but i have nothing to compare it to, and lol after i placed my order on jan 29 @45 CHF they have increased the price to 85 CHF sheesh









Faulhaber 3153K024BRE Servomoteurs sans balais 36,5 mNm -


Faulhaber 3153K024BRE Servomoteurs sans balais 36,5 mNm Servomoteurs sans balais 36.5 mNm - Des produit de qualité a prix Déstocké. Eléctrique.




electrique-automation.com


----------



## Stingray230sx (Jun 9, 2010)

mdjenkins said:


> You bumping this thread reminded me of it. So, I ordered some motors and seals for my brother and I.
> 
> I'm planning on practical studies of TT geometry and alignment this spring/summer. Pump rebuilding sounds like a perfect mise. Hopefully I can contribute a success story to this thread at that time.


i will be right there as well, pulling my entire suspension in the spring for restore/powdercoating and new bilsteins/H&R sport springs


----------



## mdjenkins (Feb 16, 2010)

Here's hoping I ordered the correct motor.


----------



## tt92103 (Nov 23, 2010)

mdjenkins said:


> Here's hoping I ordered the correct motor.
> 
> 
> View attachment 67408
> ...



That's exactly the same motor that I bought, but the person in post #41 above says it needs modifications.


----------



## mdjenkins (Feb 16, 2010)

Going off the pics found here: Haldex pre-charge pump removal / disassembly PIC HEAVY

I'm highly doubtful about the motors I've been convinced to buy. I did buy two of them, so I might as well tear one apart and see what the internals are like.

OTOH...
Scrolling deeper through search results, I'm finding many hits for: 3153K024BRE (353) obsolete/no replacement. So, back to hunting a brushless motor that will fit.

Addendum:
Found this link to a thread with a more comprehensive description of the problem and an overload of detailed pictures.

forum.skoda-club.ru • Просмотр темы - 4х4 Насосы муфты халдекс haldex 02D525557 ремонт

TLDR: The motors sourced from the electrique-automation.com link in post #30 do not appear to be the correct motors.


----------



## mdjenkins (Feb 16, 2010)

The more I dig into the current market for electric motors the more I start thinking a commutator and brush refresh is a reasonable time vs. cost option. Haldex AOC Pump 1-3rd Generation Repair Kits

Also, pump availability seems better than it used to be. I'm finding pumps for under $200.

For longevity, I'd prefer rebuilding a pump with a brushless motor. I have to admit though, I'm not certain how necessary it is and sourcing a brushless motor is a hangup. In the 10+ years I've owned my TT, I've been quite rigorous with fluid maintenance. The two previous owners kept on point with dealer service (according to the dealer stamps in the service book). My Haldex is still functioning (knock on wood). If I can get another 20yrs and 200k out of a new pump, then why bother sourcing a brushless motor? 

The concern I have is brush and commutator wear. At this point, I'm thinking just buy a new pump and tear down my old pump just to see how bad an OE motor is after 200k of consistent service.


----------



## Stingray230sx (Jun 9, 2010)

mdjenkins said:


> The more I dig into the current market for electric motors the more I start thinking a commutator and brush refresh is a reasonable time vs. cost option. Haldex AOC Pump 1-3rd Generation Repair Kits
> 
> Also, pump availability seems better than it used to be. I'm finding pumps for under $200.
> 
> ...


i too bought this motor based on the original post...however it seems as if the p/n stayed the same while the motor changed?
even the original poster says it is not the same motor that he originally found and used.....
the big issue is mounting, as that pic heavy post shows a triangular mounting of the motor to the pump housing?


----------



## mdjenkins (Feb 16, 2010)

Yeah, seems like a repurposed part number. So no shade to esoxlucios. Information changes and you can't control what a company does. In their defense, repurposing a part number is a big WTF.

By "triangular mounting" I'm guessing you mean three holes vs four holes. That doesn't bother me as much as the dimensions given for the pump. Replacing a 34x64mm diameter/height motor with a 30x90mm motor seems sketch. Even if we figure out how to encase the extra inch of length in the housing, there's the question of getting a 3.5mm gear on an 8mm shaft. 









Then again, getting that seal on that shaft could start a new sub-catagory on Pornhub

Digging through that russian forum post, I get a chuckle from a proposed temporary plug solution deeper in. Replacing the pump with a unicorn embeded in a rubber ball from a gacha machine for reduced performance while fixing your own pump is inspired.


----------



## Stingray230sx (Jun 9, 2010)

mdjenkins said:


> Yeah, seems like a repurposed part number. So no shade to esoxlucios. Information changes and you can't control what a company does. In their defense, repurposing a part number is a big WTF.
> 
> By "triangular mounting" I'm guessing you mean three holes vs four holes. That doesn't bother me as much as the dimensions given for the pump. Replacing a 34x64mm diameter/height motor with a 30x90mm motor seems sketch. Even if we figure out how to encase the extra inch of length in the housing, there's the question of getting a 3.5mm gear on an 8mm shaft.
> 
> ...


 oh well, we win some lose some


----------

